#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-01 <scott-work> detrate: are you still interesting in helping develop the Ubuntu Studio website? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-02 <Transmogrifox> @ScottL - I noticed a mailing list thread w/ you and Teza talking about Rakarrack packaging for Lucid. <Transmogrifox> I thought I would let you guys know we're starting to slow our new features and put efforts into pushing out another release, so hang tight :-) We have a lot of new stuff, which you can see on the sf.net web page help section...The latest is a vocoder <ScottL> Transmogrifox, I saw you mention the vocoder in #opensourcemusicians, that's awesome :) <ScottL> nothing will happen until May as far as updating <Transmogrifox> :-) Josep and I have been having a lot of fun.... <Transmogrifox> May is a reasonable target for us... I would rather see an upcoming release in the ubuntu repos than 0.4.2... <Transmogrifox> We keep finding bugs that we have been fixing in the current development, so I think it will be a little more stable <ScottL> to be honest, the ubuntustudio devs are limited so we would probably even wait until Debian Multimedia packages it for Debian and then we would sync it to Ubuntu <Transmogrifox> :-) Ok, well that buys time. 0.3.0 is a solid release I think, so my advice would be to save the effort and skip 0.4.2 and hold on until the next version comes down the line... <Transmogrifox> Just my 2 pennies, but I thought I'd let you know what's happening behind the scenes... <ScottL> i have a reminder set for may to see about syncing so I'll add this information to it <ScottL> oh, i really appreciate your input to us and your work with rakarrack :) <Transmogrifox> The PPA's are great...if people want recent versions of anything, I have found most everything I would want in PPA's, so it's a nice thing :-) <Transmogrifox> Thanks... now I better get back to work :( <Transmogrifox> (that is the boring day job work) <ScottL> again, thanks Transmogrifox <Transmogrifox> ScottL, you bet. have a good day #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-03 <lasconic> Hi there <lasconic> is anybody using MuseScore on ubuntu studio? <jussi01> lasconic: yes, there are. did you have a question? <lasconic> I'm a musescore developer <lasconic> and we are looking for user feedback on ubuntu <jussi01> lasconic: the best way to get it would be through our mailing list. <lasconic> to improve our GSoC proposal <jussi01> you can find details on lists.ubuntu.com <jussi01> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Studio-users <lasconic> ok <jussi01> lasconic: Hope that helps. :) <lasconic> sure :) I would prefer direct feedback but thanks for your help! <jussi01> lasconic: yeah, this channel is pretty dead... especially on a weekend. <ScottL> quadrispro, can you help me understand something? <quadrispro> ScottL, now I'm little busy but please, tell me <ScottL> no rush, bug #551799 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 551799 in ubuntustudio-look "package ubuntustudio-plymouth-theme 0.38.1 failed to install/upgrade: update-alternatives: error: alternative path /lib/plymouth/themes/ubuntustudio-logo/ubuntustudio-logo.plymouth doesn't exist." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551799 <ScottL> i did the theme so I would like to address it and learn from it <ScottL> later this weekend or during next week is more than adequate timing <ScottL> again, i like to try to plan in advance :) <quadrispro> Sure, I like more "during next week" <ScottL> that sounds fantastic <ScottL> thanks <quadrispro> I should find the right time to take a deep look <quadrispro> you're welcome :) <quadrispro> now I have to fix 154880 <ScottL> oh, i should also say it's not a very complex issue probably, it's just my ignorance since i'm not a strong packager <ScottL> but again, no rush <quadrispro> should be easy to fix <ScottL> quadrispro, to be clear, I only want to intrude upon you to ask for guidance, I do not want you to do the work <ScottL> on the contrary, I _want_ to fix this, it is my responsibility and this way I will learn (i always want to learn!) <quadrispro> of course, I'll do my best to be helpful <ScottL> thanks :) <quadrispro> see you, bye! #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-05 <scott-work> rlameiro: any luck in getting hold of stochastic for the OSM interview? <scott-work> i have to admit that I am getting slightly excited about it :) <rlameiro> scott-work: i haven saw stochastic on the irc <rlameiro> maybe you could send him some mail or something <rlameiro> i am starting to be preocupied with him... <scott-work> rlameiro: right-o, I will send an email later today and see if he responds <scott-work> you say he's busy with work lately? <rlameiro> i dont know <rlameiro> i only spoke with him on IRC <scott-work> oh, and I may need to take a break from some of the -dev work because on the way to work I noticed the new traffic signals on the road were slightly turned and therefore hard to see correctly, and I thought, "hm, someone should file a bug for that!" <rlameiro> lol <rlameiro> its getting to you <rlameiro> back #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-06 <scott-work> jussi01: email sent to jdong...sorry I'm a dork sometimes :P #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-07 <rlameiro> ScottL: any news about Stochastic? <ScottL> not yet, but i just sent the email not too long ago...i'm hoping to get an answer tonight though :) <rlameiro> :) * abogani waves <abogani> persia: Stupid and fast question: Is change name to a source package painful? <scott-work> hi abogani <scott-work> abogani: I still have on my list to create a wiki page for the kernel information that you gave to me, a few tasks that I have left are taking about 1.5 weeks longer than anticipated <abogani> scott-work: Ok, thanks! <TheMuso> ScottL: How is the testing for beta 2 going? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-08 <ScottL> TheMuso, i am guessing you mean me specifically rather than in the general community sense <ScottL> i should be starting to test the next ISO this Friday <TheMuso> ScottL: the community sense. <ScottL> i've read some very complimentary emails from teza and laurent, so i would view that positively :) <ScottL> TheMuso, ^^^ <TheMuso> ScottL: Ok are they putting their results on the tracker? <ScottL> TheMuso, i don't know at this time...i was going to look when I downloaded the ISO <TheMuso> ok <ScottL> but i speculate many are not <ScottL> TheMuso, i just checked and the numbers that are reporting testing with qatracker are low :( * TheMuso sighs <ScottL> i think i'll send out another email about reporting ISO testing with some links <TheMuso> The tracker matters. If we don't complete testing for an arch, it doesn't get released, as evident by beta 1 amd64. <ScottL> TheMuso, amd64 has all tests completed (4/4) and i386 has one remaining...i will take care of that this Friday <TheMuso> hrm I'll see what one is left. <TheMuso> Beta 2 may be released by friday <ScottL> okay, i can do it tonight then...it's the full disk <TheMuso> Ah ok, I may also be able to do it. Just gotta sort out a machine to do it on... <TheMuso> Probably a VM is good enough. <ScottL> i'm also trying to get skype working on another machine to interview with the open source musicians podcast <ScottL> having trouble getting everything working :( thinking about adding pulseaudio-module-jack and trying it with jack also <TheMuso> skype works with pulse, if you use the latest beta <ScottL> i was using ubuntu studio and skype 2.1beta <TheMuso> hrm ok <ScottL> i got in working on my hardy partition but it doesn't sound very good, so i at least have that fall back <TheMuso> right <ScottL> heh, rebooted from hardy into lucid and now skype works on test call :) <ScottL> TheMuso, tested the ISO and reported :) <TheMuso> ScottL: ok thanks heaps. <ScottL> TheMuso, so if beta 2 isn't tested there the RC isn't released? <ScottL> s/there/then <TheMuso> ScottL: no, the RC gets tested as well. <TheMuso> so fi there is no beta 2, there still can be an rc. <ScottL> what if the RC isn't tested? <ScottL> TheMuso, when I think about how many "testers" are in the testing team and the level of ISO reporting I get quite cross :/ <TheMuso> ScottL: not sure. <TheMuso> I agree. <TheMuso> It is all well and good to test, but you need to report your results somewhere. <ScottL> yes, there are quite a few people who test and report to the -user mailing list, i'm really hoping to "encourage" them to report on the ISO <ScottL> perhaps a little education would help, i.e. lack of complete test cases yields lack of next ISO <ScottL> an "official" ubuntu studio blog that fed to Planet Ubuntu would be great so that a weekly Ubuntu Studio fact could be posted <ScottL> i'm going to apply for membership later this month (or early next month) maybe i'll syndicate my own blog then <TheMuso> ScottL: Ok great, I'll support you. <ScottL> TheMuso, thanks for the membership support offer, I really appreciate it #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-09 <rlameiro> hey scott-work <scott-work> good morning rlameiro <scott-work> rlameiro: sent an email to stochastic again about OSM interview, still waiting for response :( <rlameiro> :( <rlameiro> the interview was due tomorrow, wasnt it? <scott-work> yes, tomorrow morning at 8:00 CST <rlameiro> CST? <rlameiro> Central "S" Time? <scott-work> currently it is 6:50 CST <rlameiro> 6 hours sooner than me :D <rlameiro> scott-work: you work so early??? <scott-work> yeah, about three days a week I like to get here at 6:30, i'm a E/D supervisor for two offices and getting in early allows me to actually be productive before everyone else gets here ;) <rlameiro> he he <stochastic> ScottL, you around? <ScottL> stochastic, yes <stochastic> ScottL, I'll have a lot of trouble making a 6am interview as I get off work tonight at 11am <stochastic> ScottL, it was suggested just now in #opensourcemusicians that we bump the interview back two hours 10am CST or 8am PST <ScottL> stochastic, lol, i told them i'm good for several hours +/-, what is a good time? <ScottL> stochastic, 10am CST is good <stochastic> ScottL, sweet. <ScottL> stochastic, i'm really glad you will be there also <stochastic> ScottL, provided my alarm clock gets me up, yes (I have been known for struggling with that, but I'll do my best <stochastic> sorry I've been living under a rock in seclusion for the past couple weeks or so <ScottL> hopefully your back now :) <stochastic> well my schedule should clear up significantly in the coming weeks <ScottL> stochastic, going out to eat with the family, i'll read back when we get back #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-10 <ScottL> stochastic, you up? <rlameiro> time to talk <rlameiro> stochastic: :D are you up? * abogani waves <abogani> Are anyone around? <abogani> I'm looking for sponsor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication <abogani> Thanks! <ScottL> hello abogani , i hope you are having a good day/night <abogani> ScottL: I hope the same for you. #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-11 * abogani waves <abogani> I'm looking for sponsors: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication <abogani> Thanks! <abogani> TheMuso: ^ #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-12 * abogani waves <abogani> TheMuso: I really appreciate have you as sponsor for obtain PPU on linux-rt package (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication). Thanks in advance! <scott-work> abogani: PPU = per package upload? if so, congratulations! <abogani> scott-work: Yes it is what PPU means _but_ I don't obtain it yet so it is too early for congratulations. But I don't think to achieve it because no one want sponsor me. <abogani> crimsun: Perhaps Daniel could sponsor me? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-13 * abogani it is very astonished _really_ after three years that I did my best for provide realtime kernel no one want sponsor me (to obtain upload rights on it)? <jussi01> abogani: perhaps you are asking in the wrong place. <jussi01> abogani: I would if I could. <abogani> jussi01: Hi Jussi. Do you know what is the right place? <jussi01> abogani: not really. I guess #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-kernel. <abogani> jussi01: Already done also on it <abogani> jussi01: On -motu also. <jussi01> abogani: I guess its about being patient. <abogani> Or perhaps simply I don't deserve it. <abogani> jussi01: By the way when you will have 5 minutes for me... :-) <abogani> jussi01: Ok now I stop to bother you. <jussi01> abogani: what do you need? <abogani> jussi01: You have forget but It isn't necessary after all. <jussi01> abogani: please remind me. Im incredibly busy these days, so little reminders are good :) <abogani> jussi01: I dont' want waste your time. <jussi01> abogani: please let me know what it is you need. If I havent time, Ill tell you so. <abogani> jussi01: Was about review of my cv by a native English speaker... <jussi01> ahh <abogani> :-) <jussi01> I totally forgot <jussi01> abogani: do you have a blog syndicated on planet ubuntu? <abogani> jussi01: No. Why? <jussi01> abogani: I suggest you get one. <jussi01> abogani: then more people in the ubuntu community will get to know you, and you will have more contacts. <abogani> jussi01: Wow this is a smart suggestion! <jussi01> :) <abogani> jussi01: I have created a Linkedin profile some days ago (under friend suggestion). <jussi01> abogani: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu <jussi01> abogani: you are an ubuntu member,? <abogani> jussi01: Since 3 three years... <jussi01> abogani: yeah, I was pretty sure, just had to double check <abogani> jussi01: Right. <jussi01> abogani: anyway, follow those instructions and get blogging :D <abogani> jussi01: Ok. Thanks for suggestion! <TheMuso> abogani: I would, but I haven't seen any of your recent work, so I don't feel I am in a position to comment. <ScottL> jussi01, I've received some email back from john dong about backporting and using official backporting vs maintaining an "official" Studio backport PPA <jussi01> ScottL: and? <ScottL> surprisingly he suggested we roll like Kubuntu and maintain our own backport ppa, then if the package seems to work for people we could tell the official backporters about it <ScottL> and they would move it into the official backports then <abogani> ScottL: Could I have the little wiki page that I requested to you one month ago? 29 April is very near now.... <ScottL> he also sort of obfuscated around putting a Studio team member on the backports team <ScottL> abogani, yes, this weekend at the latest now, i've finished one commitment and am rapidly completing the last, although I probably will need to query you a little during the week so that I understand the matter <ScottL> jussi01, this week I am going to respond back to jdong about it, clarify a point or two, and ask if he minds if i push his email to the -dev mailing list <abogani> ScottL: Things should be more easy than you are thinking. Only a review of my horrible English on my email should be enough. <jussi01> ScottL: please CC me in on it. <ScottL> abogani, your english is quite good, better than some who speak it naturally ;) <ScottL> jussi01, certainly <abogani> ScottL: Please don't joke (on this at least). <ScottL> ah, quadrispro left, i was going to tell him i already resolved my problem (oh, i hope) with the plymouth theme package, i fear he is avoiding me ;) <abogani> ScottL: :-D <ScottL> abogani, that isn't a joke really, it's more of a poke in eye at people in my country, you're english really is quite good <abogani> ScottL: I take in great consideration your opinion but _on_this_ (that is my English) I can't believe to you, sorry. * abogani failed an other job interview... <abogani> Perhaps I start to think about change field? :-| <ScottL> i find it slightly sad and embarrassing that a lot of people in this country speak only their native tongue and do so poorly <abogani> s/I/Should I/ <abogani> ScottL: It is the same here. <ScottL> abogani, i haven't heard you speak english but I am serious when I mention that you write more than adequately <ScottL> abogani, and I cannot offer opinions about changing fields <ScottL> TheMuso, hello <abogani> ScottL: Thanks. I don't believe in it but I really appreciated your compliment. :-) <abogani> TheMuso: Are you around? <abogani> TheMuso: Please let me summarize my collaboration status with you: <abogani> TheMuso: *) All my emails which I sent you about -rt on Lucid are still in my mail client without replies. <abogani> TheMuso: *) The only one change to -rt kernel (that is -10) on Lucid was made by me. <abogani> TheMuso: *) Some time ago you have said me that you never upload my works on linux-rt anymore. <abogani> TheMuso: *) So without an uploader I'm still doing my work in my PPA (https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa). <abogani> TheMuso: *) And I'm still triage bugs. <abogani> TheMuso: So why you say that you don't see my recent works? <abogani> TheMuso: I would want recall you that I'm not a Canonical employer and I the only one person that work on this package. So what you exactly expected from me? <abogani> TheMuso: The first linux-rt package was made by me and I take care of it for *7* Ubuntu release. Perhaphs I'm not superman and surely I have wrong something but I have done the all that work. <TheMuso> abogani: Ok, I need to look at your PPA to see what you have done recently, however I may not get time this week. I haven't replied to emails in my inbox because I am often quite busy, and could spare little time for the studi oproject. That is why I resigned from the project after lucid releases. <rlameiro> stochastic: are you there? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-14 <stochastic> rlameiro, yup, what's up? <rlameiro> hey <rlameiro> :DDDDDD <rlameiro> long time <rlameiro> stochastic: so you could make it to the interview <TheMuso> Looks like Debian already has jack2 packaging. <stochastic> rlameiro, nope, I slept through my alarm. Working nights and early morning interviews just don't work well together. <rlameiro> stochastic: yea.. <rlameiro> did you looked at my wiki? <stochastic> rlameiro, nope <rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign <stochastic> rlameiro, I really don't have time right now to discuss this, but I will get back to you soon about it <rlameiro> np <rlameiro> TheMuso: what would be need to use jack and dbus? <TheMuso> rlameiro: Depends on how Debian build it and go from there basically. It just requires configure arguments I believe. <rlameiro> so, will it be easy to put it on maverick? <rlameiro> just packages? <TheMuso> Ah. Debian are using dbus. <TheMuso> The packages in Debian use the same namespace, so it shouldn't be too difficult. <rlameiro> nice <ScottL> TheMuso, that is surprisingly good news, hopefully it transitions smoothly <TheMuso> ScottL: It should, and yes I agree, great news. <panmanphil> hey can anybody tell me what the plans are for an rt kernel for lucid? <ScottL> panmanphil, i think that a -rt kernel will not be available in the official repositories for the 2.6.32 kernel for lucid release <panmanphil> that what i have been reading <ScottL> however, i think that a -lowlatency (or something similar, I can't recall) will be available for the amd64 architectural kernel <ScottL> but only a -generic kernel will be for the i386 kernel <panmanphil> Yeah I've tried it but way to many xruns, even for practice <ScottL> that said, both the ubuntu studio ppa and abogani's ppa have additional kernels in them that you may find helpful :) <panmanphil> does this mean the ubuntu studio will be kind of crippled like it was in the 8 version? <ScottL> panmanphil, i've run the -generic kernel on i386 and found it more than acceptable for recording audio <ScottL> panmanphil, which version is the 8 version? <panmanphil> Yeah, I've been trying some. the beta 10.04 generic kernel has the neuvous (sp) driver which works great for my laptop + extra monitor <panmanphil> I can't remember the ubuntu name .... two versions ago where the rt kernel had heavy cpu use problems. <TheMuso> Intrepid? <panmanphil> one sec.... <ScottL> i wouldn't say it will be crippled as you can always use the ubuntu studio ppa or abogani's ppa for other kernels <ScottL> also the 2.6.31 -rt is always available as well in the official repositories <panmanphil> hardy <ScottL> i didn't find Hardy to be crippled, but perhaps i'm only remembering updated kernels after release <panmanphil> I am using the 2.6.31 and audio is good. I have a headphone jack sense problem though so i can't really use my jacks. Also, the video driver is really flaky <panmanphil> right, that is what I did as well, updated my kernel after the release. I was using some other kernel modules though, cisco vpn at the time, so updates were more of a pain than I liked <ScottL> heh <panmanphil> are any of you using the nouveau video driver? <ScottL> i'm currently testing lucid and running the default driver at the moment <TheMuso> yes with generic amd64 kernel. <panmanphil> it is working much better than the previous one for me, and handles the two monitors setup very nicely. <persia> Grr. Silly autojoin. jussi01: I thought you said there was some appropriate redirects for #ubuntu-studio-devel and #ubuntustudio-devel <ScottL> for those who are interested, last Saturday I did an interview with the Open Source Musicians (#opensourcemusicians) guys about Ubuntu Studio <ScottL> while i didn't go to heavy about it i did mention that we could use help, primarily in testing and documentation, but mainly testing <ScottL> from the live streaming interview i've already gotten two emails with offers to help <persia> Cool! <ScottL> hopefully when the interview is edited and available on their website there will be more :) <abogani> ScottL: Yes it is very cool! * abogani is wondering if is Lead role is already assigned.... <abogani> So no I suppose... :-) * abogani would want recall you that comments are very welcomed on my wiki page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication). So if you are used linux-rt and you find that I have done a good job please help me to obtain per-package rights on linux-rt package adding a little comment on my above-mentioned wiki page (Comments section). Thanks! <abogani> persia: Are you around? <abogani> No you scottashley@example.org :) <persia> But I can at 2:56 :) <scott-work> hi persia, abogani :) <persia> hey scott-work. <abogani> persia: I would want let you notice that DMB Agenda report next meeting at 27 April instead your email into -devel-announce report 17 April. What is the right? <abogani> scott-work: Hi Scott! <persia> abogani: 27th. <abogani> persia: Ok. Sorry for disturb. <persia> You didn't disturb scottashley@example.org. If I wasn't around, I wouldn't have responded. <ScottL> abogani, i just saw your comment about the lead role, no i don't think it is assigned as neither cory or luis are active and they were the last "official" project leads <ScottL> but to say who...i don't know, i suspect anyone wanting to step up and help, much like any other position i would imagine <ScottL> if you do it, then probably by default you will be it <abogani> ScottL: No absolutely. #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-15 <ScottL> persia, did you see what TheMuso said about jack2 and Debian? they have jack2 packaging, it uses dbus, and uses the same name space :) <persia> I suspect that happened whilst I was connected to #ubuntu-studio-devel :( <persia> I'm glad to hear that's in place, so we'll have it for maverick. Makes sense to me to try it as early as possible, so we have the opportunity to revert if necesary. <persia> I'm sure we'll have some bugs initially, but we ought be able to take a sensible decision on whether to fix the bugs or go back to jack1. <rlameiro> well, i think its the best way is to do it the next release <rlameiro> like that we can have a bleeding edge distro on next LTS <persia> No. <persia> We don't want a bleeding edge distro for an LTS :) <persia> We want a bleeding edge distro for the next cycle (10.10) <persia> And it slowly gets duller (but more stable) until LTS. <rlameiro> well, thas what i meant <rlameiro> I should add a stable bleeding edge :D <persia> I really don't mind being a bit behind the newest coolest stuff for an LTS if it means it's something that can reliably be used in a studio for a couple years. <rlameiro> yeah, but d-bus is important for audio <persia> Yeah, but for the next release (maverick), we should grab the newest, shinest, sharpest stuff out there. <rlameiro> at least Pulse <-> Jack integration <persia> At least it makes it easier to configure :) <rlameiro> it wil be nice that maverick has a new controls panel <rlameiro> also with the most recent software etc <persia> Well, we'll have to work at it to make this happen. <persia> And it's more work, because Debian is freezing for squeeze, so there's a lot of stuff that we'll have to enqueue to drop into Debian Multimedia post-freeze. <ScottL> like what persia? <ScottL> oh, and do you jack2 would be bad enough that we would need to regress to jack1? <rlameiro> persia: is it possible to make a lucid version with jack2? <rlameiro> without repos, only for test or is to complicated to install deb packages on ubuntu at the moment? <TheMuso> rlameiro: It will need to go into a PPA. <TheMuso> rlameiro: But may require jack clients to be rebuil. <persia> Probably worth doing an ABI comparison to check: it may be possible to not rebuild. <persia> But that's a lot of fiddling with nm :) <persia> ScottL: Well, there's lots more LV2 software for example, but we'll find it harder to drop new packages into Debian, so lots of stuff will probably end up on alioth pending squeeze to upload. <persia> ScottL: Or there may be new upstream versions of core stuff like ardour, hydrogen, etc., that we want to pull, but Debian wants to wait on because of the freeze. #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-16 <ScottL> troy_s, weren't you and a buddy making a website? <troy_s> Erk... well we have the Mythbuntu site that needs to get finished. <troy_s> Slow slogging at this point. <ScottL> troy_s, have you ever considered a paying job to make a site? <troy_s> I've been offered it, but to be frank, I've still got too much to learn about them. <troy_s> I find them extremely difficult. #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-17 <ScottL> quadrispro, don't worry about that thing I asked you to help me with, i already took care of it and it was a stupid mistake on my part <ScottL> forgot to "bzr add" to include the new install file :( but it's fixed now :) <quadrispro> ScottL, I'm very very sorry, I got a flu and I was stuck for a week <ScottL> quadrispro, no, no, i took care of it right after we talked actually so i've been meaning to let you know that it's all good, no problem at all <quadrispro> ah fine, thanks <ScottL> TheMuso informed me that it needed to be done post haste since it was the plymouth theme and it was needed for the next beta * abogani waves and as usual recall to all to <abogani> add comments for my application! :-) <rlameiro> abogani: what application? <abogani> rlameiro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication <rlameiro> abogani: I vote for you :DDDD <rlameiro> send it to the mailing list <rlameiro> the dev and the user <rlameiro> :D <abogani> rlameiro: Thanks. :) #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-18 * TheMuso shakes his head at the mess around jack atm. <persia> Which bit? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-19 <TheMuso> persia: There s discussion on pkg-multimedia about the various versions of jackd, and having them all available in debian. Seems upstream is not pleased about jack2 being treated as the successor to jack1. Add to that, there is also a third jack implementation called tschack, and there is also jack3, which is a c++ rewrite of jack1. <persia> heh. Madness. <TheMuso> yup <persia> But I like the kraftwerk reference. <TheMuso> heh <ScottL> TheMuso, does jack2 work on single core computers? if so, then why would we (or anyone) want to have jack1? <ScottL> and where is the benefit in rewriting jack1 in c++? does it reduce a dependency? <TheMuso> ScottL: Afaik jack2 does work on single core/CPU machines./ <TheMuso> ScottL: Rewriting jac1 in C++ is probably useful for code maintainability/extendability, not sure why else. <persia> Some folk also just like rewriting stuff in different languages <scott-work> persia, TheMuso : i'm still working on that paper I told you about, my father came to visit this weekend and used up my spare time that I had allotted, i _really_ want to be finished by this friday <scott-work> detrate: ping <detrate> hi <detrate> I'm not sure if I have the xcf for the website anymore, I switched from ubuntu studio back to plain ubuntu after ~a week for a few reasons. <detrate> I thought the workflow would cater more towards artists / musicians but I saw no obvious organization of this, just additional packages... it seemed over simplified to the point where I felt I was losing features and it was less stable for me than regular ubuntu <persia> less stable? That seems odd, as it's the same code. <persia> But yeah, the "less features" bit is sorta-intentional, lots of folks need the extra resources for their audio/video/etc. processing, and so don't want all the other bits. <persia> I hope you just installed ubuntu-desktop to switch, rather than going through a reinstall. <detrate> I actually created a livecd with remastersys from my laptop <detrate> I think ubuntu studio can benefit from streamlining workflows for various different types of creators but I don't want to tell you how to run your project <detrate> I do know that many of my dj friends would be very confused if they used ubuntu studio though <ScottL> detrate, suggestions are always welcome though :) <ScottL> oh, and are you still interested in updating the website? <detrate> I may be able to help or at least consult <detrate> Refresh my memory please, the current website uses a custom CMS? <ScottL> drupal i believe <ScottL> but also, please make any suggestions you can about work flow as well <detrate> in any case I'd reccomend using wordpress if possible. It's a great way to collaborate with other maintainers with limited to no knowledge of HTML code but also just as easy for php gurus to code for. You can get some amazing plugins that will provide you with out of the box SEO advantages, not that you need that specifically for your project as you're under the wing of ubuntu but using a sitemap plugin you can help google <detrate> index content of all pages properly and return more relevant results to the user. <detrate> drupal I found confusing for both developers and end users <detrate> workflows, I think it's important to document from basic to more advanced methods for creation that you'd find in a similar windows or OS X environment <detrate> if you give a few good examples for specific programs, you can get users to begin contributing articles of ~equal value <detrate> the website itself doesn't seem to highlight the key features that ubuntu studio offers, it says "download, install, create" but doesn't really elaborate on the create, there is audio, graphics and video listed below... but they don't really clarify either <detrate> you don't even need to start off with videos made by ubuntu studio dev team, you can find tutorials on youtube/vimeo that will assist new users in getting aquainted <detrate> you may want to create a filtration system for incoming users based on their expertise and direct them to proper resources to get started <detrate> even as an experience ubuntu user I felt lost on a fresh install <detrate> the overall look of the website does not make ubuntu studio appear to be serious but rather hint at what is ahead (this is not a compliment). You need to begin building trust with your future users from the first second they arrive at your site <detrate> 'logo' in the top right, the logo having little to no contrast as it overlays the menu, no hover effects on the menu, too much information below the fold and only 1 call to action, "download now" <detrate> I haven't read a clear mission statment either <detrate> the closest thing is a blurb next to download no but that doesn't give me the confidence I'd expect as a user. <ScottL> "too much informatio below the fold" has bothered me considerably as well <detrate> you want to be flashy, hip and productive in the process <detrate> you can condense a lot of information with a slider or a similar javascript widget <detrate> unless you have qualms about using javascript (with 99% of users having it turned on, you shouldn't) <detrate> the people turning it off either have a good reason or they are paranoid nerds <detrate> Think of the questions a user might ask when arriving to your site <ScottL> i really had not considered that wordpress was CMS, but rather just for blogs <detrate> "Where am I? What is this? How can I benefit? What should I check out next?" <detrate> it's a very flexible system that was first built for bloggers but it's most definitely a CMS and one I've been recommending and using for the greater time of the last half year <detrate> here is one my company just rolled out in just a week (including copy) for a crisis client http://www.savesandhilllakes.com/ <detrate> your front page doesn't have to be a blog and wordpress is very keen to helping you change it to a static page and redirect it to another page <detrate> their documentation is pretty solid, they provided (default) user roles (levels) and there are plugins to extend them. <detrate> again the available plugins are quite impressive and I can advise you on a handful to kick it off with. <detrate> My only complaint is that many of the themes are created by amatures hacking together HTML and CSS/JS from other templates so the markup could be more sound out of the box but this is a view level issue that can easily be solved by creating a template from scratch (which isn't as daunting a task as it sounds) <ScottL> you work for a company that makes websites? <detrate> I work for a company that specializes in behavior change and communications, I lead the web team and manage IT for the company. <ScottL> hi cory <ScottL> several of us really, really want to change the website and i'm willing to spend some of my own, personal money to do so (to a limit) <detrate> As one of the leading social marketing companies in the US, we recognize how much effect the internet (websites, mobile applications, social media, adverstisements) can have on campaigns <ckontros> Hi guys. Whats going on? How the hell do you activate the binary drivers with that damn restricted driver dialog? I swear they /used/ to have a checkbox or something. <detrate> so we often have various projects that involve these medias <detrate> Okay ScottL, roughly what is your time frame and budget? <ScottL> detrate, you might laugh but I don't have a time frame and I was hoping for no more that $200 <ScottL> usd <detrate> okay, well being a FOSS advocate, I think I can work within that budget but the timeframe may be about a month or longer. Perhaps faster if I'm given help. <detrate> areas in which most help would be appreciated are 1) website design / slicing into WP template 2) Creating copy 3) Collecting content <detrate> You'll also want to start building a team of website maintainers if you do not have one already. <detrate> by this I mean updating content, writing news, interacting with social media sites <detrate> with wordpress, we can tie into social networks like facebook and twitter to automaticall post to these sites <detrate> being the #2 most popular websites on the internet it's iimportant to have good representation on facebook, especially given that some users in your target audience would never even consider going to the website to check for updates, let alone subscribing to RSS or twitter feeds <ScottL> have social media integration was a important consideration to many who voiced opinions <detrate> yes but you need a team to be active on them <ckontros> A team of any sort lately is what the project has severely lacked. :( <detrate> A strong leader is the beginning, a strong community keeps it going. <ckontros> heh +1 to the 1st part. * ckontros pats Scott on the back. <detrate> define your vision, inspire minds and move forward as a team to create the future, a dream you've created and then live in together to further progress to new plateus. <ScottL> I am a team of 1 ;) <detrate> only with that attitude <ScottL> ckontros, i have a paper I wrote that I would like for you to read <ScottL> it deals much with building community <detrate> wiki's are a great way to grow a vision <ScottL> detrate, my "team" statement meant that I am moving things forward but am forced to do so by myself for the most part, i crave others to assist <detrate> I know exactly what you meant and I've felt the way you've felt before, said things the way you said before and have further refined my understanding of the situation and the community on a greater scale. <ckontros> detrate: Not to be a downer, but we're such a small part of Ubuntu, so specific a use-case, its been hard to sustain anything great. I think I've personally generated 90% of any Studio wiki pages. I made a pretty sizable base to which few helped. (outside of our small team) <ckontros> ScottL: Sure. Email me. <detrate> yes because you aren't yet attracting the right kind of people <detrate> but my advice is aiming to help you do just that <ckontros> detrate: IYO the "right" folks are? <detrate> IYO? <detrate> in my opinion <ckontros> "I you opinion" :) <ckontros> *your <ckontros> damn (cant type today) <detrate> the types of people you'll be attracting with this new vision I'm describing to you. <ScottL> i think improving the website and communicating more the users will help develop that community <ckontros> detrate: I thought the "leader" should be describing that? <detrate> I'm trying to inspire him to do so <detrate> I don't see why you're being confrontational about it. <ckontros> Im confused "detrate: the types of people you'll be attracting with this new vision I'm describing to you." :) <ckontros> detrate: No no. Just chatting. <detrate> with the website and the team to help keep content updated and users involved <troy_s> detrate: Sorry to weigh in here, it isn't a question of 'the right kind of people', it is the Pareto principle in action. <ScottL> that is the Pareto principle? <detrate> by the "right kind of people", I mean the types of people who will be happy to build a vision with you and utilize the resources you provide, further building and strengthing community. <troy_s> detrate: It is a well known factor in complex groups. Also known as the more colloquial 80/20 rule. <ckontros> And note I'm just chatting. Asking questions. ScottL is free to do what he likes. <detrate> I apologize for any principles I have demonstrated in my lack of information <ScottL> i know the 80/20 rule <troy_s> detrate: There are MANY valuable people, including those that only adjust a single sentence on a wiki page. But the Pareto principle still stands. Clay Shirky has written and discussed it extensively. <troy_s> detrate: No need to apologize. It seems to be a rather core function of a complex system. I think what Cory was loosely getting at is that no matter what, you will _always_ be subject to that rule (Cory's estimate that he wrote 90% of the wiki is likely almost on point - more closely to maybe 80% in the early going?) <ckontros> Sure <troy_s> detrate: What in essence is required is ultimately greater numbers. Plain and simple. How to do that when dealing with a very specific audience (perhaps could be more specific and more greatly deliver to that audience's needs is another question entirely) with already limited numbers. <troy_s> detrate: Follow me? <detrate> Patience, I was away talking to a friend IRL #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-04-20 <ScottL> detrate, ubuntu studio does have a very singular history and dynamic but i imagine we all still are open to hearing others suggestions <detrate> I know you need to defend your territory right now but your attitude will do nothing but deter my efforts to help you <detrate> troy_s: <troy_s> detrate: Trust me. I have nothing to defend detrate. I am not really a part of this project. <troy_s> detrate: But I think you are fundamentally failing to address the core here. Let's assume population X. Of population X, you have %Y that is of the audience to which Ubuntu Studio caters (again we can debate until we are blue in the face as to who that should be, and what granularity etc.) <detrate> Do you lead a lot of communities or read about them in books? <troy_s> detrate: In the _greater_ world, that is a SMALL number. Artists, designers, musicians, etc. make up a seriously small percentage of the total base. <troy_s> detrate: It simply plays a game of numbers in there end. <troy_s> detrate: No, actually I deal with bogus design decision in Freetard software every day because decisions are made in the name of everyone and everything - a fictional myth. <detrate> you should really consider your audience before saying such idiotic things <ckontros> detrate: Troy is a long-time friend of the project and trust me. Knows a thing ot 2. ;) <troy_s> detrate: I am considering my audience. I live in Free Software every single day friend. I have zero proprietary work in all of my work when it comes to software. I am, dare I say, part of that ecosystem. <ckontros> *or <troy_s> detrate: But we unfortunately juggle certain things and some of those things are numerical in nature. It is unavoidable. <troy_s> detrate: We could do well to attract say, a hot independent band to push things along (greater numbers for uptake) or a brilliant independent artist (again greater numbers via halo) etc. <ckontros> detrate: I personally am jazzed to see new folks like you in here but you might need to feel around a bit more. :) <detrate> as one of the founders of the new open-source first project shooter xonotic which spawns from a game I helped grow, Nexuiz www.alientrap.org/nexuiz -- which was recently sold behind all the contributors backs with engine developer lordhavoc (www.nexuiz.com), I know a bit about free software and communities surrounding them myself. <troy_s> detrate: Sure. But you surely wouldn't suggest for even a moment that Nexuiz is but more than a blip on the gaming scene right? <ScottL> ah cool, but how did you come up with the name nexuiz? <detrate> nexuiz was a name mispelled by the original artist and the founder didn't have him change it. as weird of a name as it was, it was ours and we did a considerable amount to build and learn that game and the surrounding communities. <troy_s> detrate: And yet, it is still just a teeny little itsty blip. <troy_s> detrate: Which is something that we all struggle with. We aren't terribly relevant. <detrate> troy_s: did you win a gold award for being an asshole? <ckontros> detrate: We've had a target audience since the beginning but as the project is going through a rough patch, it could be time for a new direction. That's where ScottL comes in. <troy_s> detrate: Yes. Platinum. <ScottL> ha, that's a great story and funny how those things happen like that <troy_s> detrate: I'm just saying that no matter what you do, this comes down to audience. <detrate> troy_s: whatever audience you have, you're not hitting <troy_s> detrate: And some certainly are important - vision leaders etc., in the end, numbers will govern aspects of it. <detrate> I'm here offering my services to help define and target them better <ckontros> detrate: Really man, nobody's being aggressive here. No need for you to be. <troy_s> detrate: Again, _I_ have nothing to do with the drive of this project. Sorry. Although I will accept all responsibility for any and all failure. <troy_s> ;) <ScottL> you two argue _way_ over my head <troy_s> detrate: At any rate, I'd love to hear a solution. First however, I'd ask you to define a problem. <troy_s> detrate: Sound fair? <detrate> did you read the chat log? <ckontros> detrate: Actually, our original target we hit quite well I feel. It's just that those folks arent the best for building s development team. I feel they are mostly just end-users. <detrate> I defined it above <detrate> okay, I apologize, as I was focusing my comments on the new audience you wish to attract <detrate> I see now that I have offended the current audience you have attracted <troy_s> detrate: Yes. I still don't quite believe I have a handle on the problem _you_ are citing. I'm an idiot, so a little clarification would be excellent. Sorry... <detrate> and that was not my intent and I apologize for any confrontation that was had because of this. <troy_s> detrate: Bear with me... as I do value opinions very much. <rlameiro> hey guys, check this out <rlameiro> http://ur1.ca/vy1z * ckontros hugs the channel. :P <detrate> Do you have a wiki I can outline my proposal in? <ScottL> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio <ScottL> that's the first page, just make another <troy_s> detrate: All I can request right now is say, a two sentence summary of what you perceive to be the issue? <troy_s> detrate: Is that fair? A sort of 'Here is a problem I perceive' pitch if you will. <ScottL> detrate, wait, don't use that one...my bad <ScottL> hold one <troy_s> (after all, this is the Twitter world now... we went from 15 minute attention spans down to 30 second Bugs Bunny sound bites down to 140 character Twitter attention.) <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox <ScottL> try that one <detrate> I joined the group on launchpad <ckontros> detrate: Strong leadership is exactly what we need. I was it for, 4 releases I think now. I *HAD* to back off as it was/is effecting my home life. I hope ScottL can pull it together. If he really is up to taking the lead, then he's the guy to answer some of your questions that are spot on. <detrate> troy_s: you've already said you've had little to nothing to do with this project and now you're giving me direct orders? <troy_s> detrate: Wow. I'll bow out. <troy_s> detrate: Thanks for the chat. <detrate> I don't understand your angle is all <ckontros> detrate: And note, troy_s has asked in the past and helped us to get on the very same track. We're just a bit off it now. ;) <ckontros> *asked the same questions... <persia> And really, we need to answer the questions to be successful. That troy_s is busy in other places doesn't make the questions less valuable. <ckontros> +1 <ckontros> Hi Emmet. Damn. I miss talking to you guys. :) <rlameiro> where can we propose new software for US? <persia> Hey Cory. <rlameiro> http://ur1.ca/vy1z <rlameiro> does this software fit the bill for the US? <ckontros> rlameiro: There /should/ be a wiki page but I think there's more fundamental questions to tackle 1st. (app does look cool though) <detrate> I cannot login to edit the wiki <detrate> odd <detrate> I'm in launchpad <rlameiro> ckontros: yeah, i know, but I think it could be useful <ckontros> I feel that if ScottL had the will (and a bit of time) he can do it. After all, It's all I had when I started things. ;) <ckontros> Well, that and a bit of JoeJaxx. :) <ScottL> yeah, things will get done, but it will take time ;) <JuniperJaxx> hi <ckontros> FAIL!!! <JuniperJaxx> rofl <ckontros> hahahahha <ckontros> JuniperJaxx: Don't you have a 50cent concert to be at? <rlameiro> well, as i am not a dev, what are the more important things to do for US? <ScottL> testing and documenation <persia> testing, testing, testing. <ScottL> followed by more testing <rlameiro> i am testing :D <JuniperJaxx> ckontros: lol yeah right <ckontros> rlameiro: Current direction for the project. What it aims to be for the future. <rlameiro> well, not testing iso actually, but yeah, testing <persia> rlameiro: We've just got new ISOs published for Lucid RC. HAve you had a chance to test if they actually install? <troy_s> detrate: Sorry too. I wasn't giving a 'direct order' either. I was merely asking for a really quick summary of what you perceived a / the problem to be. I don't think you will find a SINGLE person in here that wants this project to fail. In fact, quite the opposite. It likely stems from a disparity of exactly what the 'problem' is, hence my asking. <rlameiro> i need to test the RC iso * ckontros goes to eat dinner. <rlameiro> persia: I got the e-mail, i need to download it and make a 3rd ubnut install on my laptop :D <persia> Yeah. We need a complete set of test coverage on the RC ISO if we're going to make a lucid release. <ScottL> yeah, i learned an important lesson about testing the ISO when an ISO
{'channel': 'ubuntustudio-devel', 'month': 4}