#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-01 <jammcq> greg-g: ping <greg-g> jammcq: pong <jammcq> hey <jammcq> sitting here with Craig and other mug guys. <snap-l> Hey jammcq :) <jammcq> we're putting some info on the mug website for the june 14th meeting <jammcq> hey snap-l <jammcq> take a peek at http://www.mug.org <jammcq> i'd like to add more if you have anything to add <greg-g> jammcq: looks good so far, I don't have much more. Could you link "Michigan Ubuntu Loco" to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan <jammcq> yep <greg-g> I'm emailing the list once more to call for participation <jammcq> greg-g: ok, link is working <greg-g> awesome, thanks <greg-g> (sent the email to the list) <rick_h_> thanks greg-g, that was on my todo <greg-g> yeah, mine too, but I hadn't been using my todo manager for a while and I honestly kind of forgot about it <rick_h_> yea, meant to catch it this weekend, but you see how well that went <snap-l> Maybe I should do a short presentation on using todo.sh. ;) <greg-g> :) <tjagoda> Kyarrr <snap-l> Good morning <rick_h_> party <greg-g> g'morn <rick_h_> brousch: you submitting a talk to PyOhio? <rick_h_> you should :P <snap-l> Stupid computer locked up last night, which is why I wasn't on overnight <greg-g> lame <rick_h_> well crap, now you missed all the afk excitement <snap-l> Yeah, I figured as much <brousch> rick_h_: i wish i had something <snap-l> The parade of AFK <greg-g> stupid unity wouldn't work with dual screens this morning when I got to work, had to restart X <snap-l> Ugh <rick_h_> brousch: oh come on, no cool GAE, flask, django goodness to chat about for 30min? <brousch> gae and django have annoyed me too much <rick_h_> well, happy to see I'm not the only one :) <brousch> i could talk about how the complexity of django and the limitations of gae have driven me to flask and amazon ;) <rick_h_> think about it, not all good talks are "yay here's how this saved my life" talks <rick_h_> some of the best are "lessons learned form xxx" stuff <brousch> i have 2 days? <rick_h_> to submit it <brousch> the hardest part about that talk would be exposing my ignorance <rick_h_> not to write it <rick_h_> brousch: then a good way to approach it would be that route <rick_h_> "django and GAE, how I failed my tools" or something <snap-l> brousch: No better way to learn than to give a talk about it <rick_h_> make some great open space material afterwards <snap-l> Django and GAE: It should have worked. <brousch> for everything! <rick_h_> hah! <snap-l> Django and GAE: Why I'm using Flask and Amazon EC2 <brousch> nice <brousch> i think i could make it work <snap-l> "I come not to praise Django and GAE, but to bury them" <brousch> the talk, not the django and gae <brousch> i will strongly consider this <brousch> now you've got my subconscious working on it. dangit you two <snap-l> You're welcome. :) <greg-g> well done guys :) * brousch opens up a new evernote note <rick_h_> bwuhaha, my work is done <brousch> hopefully they will put me against rick_h_ and no one will attend ;) <rick_h_> hah, I'll get to come and yell "Amen!" from the back while the django lovers get confused looks on their faces <brousch> there wasn't a lot of django there last year <rick_h_> yea <rick_h_> it needs some more good material for sure <snap-l> Yay, morning conference calls. <rick_h_> wheee <rick_h_> this is crazy: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/06/criticism-and-takedown-how-review-sites-can-defend-free-speech.ars <rick_h_> I'm really thinking I need to find a time machine <rick_h_> I can't believe the crap going down these days <tjagoda> Lets all go back to 1955 <tjagoda> When life was simple, and we only had to worry about the commie bastard russians. <snap-l> rick_h_: Unfortunately a lot of misconceptions are coming to roost. <snap-l> the idea that you can control how people perceive you, and that ideas are property. <rick_h_> snap-l: this with the whole "by signing up for ATT you agree you can never class action lawsuit us.." <rick_h_> all the legalese to try to protect one's branch is just getting crazy <rick_h_> what happened to just not pissing off the customer? <_stink_> too expensive. <rick_h_> I guess :/ <tjagoda> Our world is broken <tjagoda> Somebody please figure out how to fix it/restore liberty as an American value? <snap-l> forget liberty, I want the right to bitch <rick_h_> ok seriously? opendns can't find stackoverflow? <snap-l> actually, don't forget libery. ;) <rick_h_> StackOverflow.RegEasyPro.com <rick_h_> yea, that's what I wanted <rick_h_> wtf opendns <snap-l> Ugh, that sucks <rick_h_> if our CHC caribout gets this crap setup I think it'll be time to find a new location <snap-l> That's partially why I use Google DNS <rick_h_> caribou that is <rick_h_> well it's at the router here :/ <snap-l> Where are you at? Caribou by you? <rick_h_> yea <rick_h_> they've got this new wireless setup with the "login" gateway, etc <snap-l> Royal Oak has it as well <snap-l> I think it's a good sign that the Madison Heights one DOESN'T have it <rick_h_> I was checking out the verizon 4g mifi rentals scene last night <rick_h_> makes me want to skip rental and get one :) <snap-l> orly? :) <rick_h_> yea, was thinking might be better off just renting for pyohio/olf, etc <rick_h_> easier to get the wifely approval than a 2yr contract <snap-l> Yeah, I can imagine <snap-l> If I went to more conferences, I could see purchasing one. <rick_h_> yea, I'd love one right now <snap-l> Well, I could see it anyway, but it's a little harder to justify. <snap-l> rick_h_: Don't you have a machine you could tunnel to at home? <snap-l> That's how I get around a lot of the crap wifi stuff <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, just haven't bothered setting up <rick_h_> I don't come up here very often <snap-l> Not that much effort to set up <snap-l> just have a SSH tunnel, and you're golden. <rick_h_> bah, no 4g where we're heading in june <rick_h_> there goes the desire to get one this month <brousch> rick_h_: how much is a mifi and what's the data cap? <rick_h_> brousch: one place I saw was 1wk rental with 2gb cap for $149 <rick_h_> and then it was another $20 for another 2gb <rick_h_> if I go month to month the mifi costs me $249 + $50-80/mo for data <brousch> ouch <rick_h_> yea <rick_h_> and if I go contract then it's $50/mo data + $99 for the mifi <rick_h_> but the 50 is more 60 after taxes, etc <rick_h_> but I do get an 8% discount with verizon through work <rick_h_> but not a big diff <jrwren> opendns sucks. <jrwren> run your own, or use google :) <jrwren> or run your own and use google as the forwarder :) <rick_h_> I had to figure out how to tweak dhclient config to prepend with google dns <rick_h_> much better now <rick_h_> only thing now is that dhclient refreshes and wipes my dns added for the vpn conneciton <brousch> cron job to fix it every minute ;) <tjagoda> Yaaay <tjagoda> new interwebz <snap-l> w00t <brousch> lookit dem toobz! <snap-l> I swear, whenever it comes to scheduling family events, I blow it no matter what <snap-l> But then JoDee gets upset when I don't want to schedule anything <brousch> Doodle <snap-l> No amount of technology can fix the underlying problem. <snap-l> which is that she doesn't want to do it in the first place. :) <snap-l> and that my mom generally is hell-bent on doing something <snap-l> It's one of those areas that men cannot win <jrwren> i just give up and do wahtever my wife tells me. <jrwren> the only way to win, is not to play <snap-l> Who is John S. Gruber? <jrwren> blogger? <snap-l> Apparently he's maintaining the Lernd package, acc. to Jono's latest blog post <snap-l> No, not John Gruber <snap-l> https://launchpad.net/~jsjgruber <jrwren> yeah. <jrwren> lernd? <rick_h_> the python snippet tool <snap-l> lernid. <jrwren> lernid? <rick_h_> oh sorry, wrong tool <rick_h_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid <snap-l> Apparently he's also a MUG member, or at least I saw his name last night at the MUG meeting <rick_h_> jono did that quickly app that was part irc, part slideshow viewer, part something <snap-l> Yeah <snap-l> Wondering if he's active in the Loco, and if we could get him to talk about it at the next MUG meeting <jrwren> no link to a project page :( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/lernid/natty/view/head:/debian/control <jcastro> he's a local <jcastro> he comes to the ann arborish events <snap-l> Ah, OK. <greg-g> what the flip, did no one use mutt with large maildir folders during the dev of natty? I keep getting stupid errors (I'll dig up the bug I found yesterday in a bit) <rick_h_> uh oh :/ <greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutt/+bug/723221 <greg-g> fixed in debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=620854 <rick_h_> ah, suck <rick_h_> guess I don't use -patched anyway though <rick_h_> so no sidebar issues * greg-g likes his sidebars to know if anything needs his attention in lesser used mailboxes <rick_h_> yea, when offlineimap updates I get the list in the bottom of my window <rick_h_> and hitting . will list dirs with new files <greg-g> huh, hadn't used that beore "." <greg-g> but, i'm bad and keep some messages in folders marked as unread to get back to later, so it fills up the bottom of my screen (ie: isn't totally useful) <rick_h_> yea, use that all the time <rick_h_> yea, I use that with a shortcut nn to mark all as read to hit mailing lists every so often <rick_h_> plus when you hit c (and nothing else) it'll defautl to a folder with unread <rick_h_> so I find myself, every so often, doing a c<enter> <rick_h_> read, read, nn <rick_h_> c<enter> <rick_h_> but I also have shortcuts to the main folders for each accounts <rick_h_> gm (go to mitechie inbox) <rick_h_> gp (go to morpace inbox) <rick_h_> gs (go to morpace support folder for tickets) <greg-g> right right, I have z1, z2, z3 as my 3 inboxes <rick_h_> yea, so I only use . when I'm looking for extra stuff to catch up on anyway <greg-g> huh, and c, never used that either. i can see how these are useful without the sidebar <snap-l> Anyone know how to encode a character in Python as unicode? <jrwren> use 3.x ? <rick_h_> unicode(str) <rick_h_> has to be encoded in something known up front though <rick_h_> so depends on what you're doing <snap-l> Trying to send over Chinese characters. ;) <rick_h_> what's the source of the text? <rick_h_> if it's a file you need to make sure you're doing something like codecs.open() or that the file is utf8/etc to start <rick_h_> I just got through doing all this chinese fun <snap-l> I just want to send over a simple string <snap-l> but I'm having a bitch of a time encoding it <rick_h_> so you're copying/pasting the text into your script? <rick_h_> the chinese character string? <snap-l> Tried that first, then tried escaping it <rick_h_> so if you're creating a string of unicode characters you have to u'something' <snap-l> Even if there's some page that could simply tell me what to do, I'd love that. <rick_h_> the u says this isn't a normal string, but a unicode version <snap-l> I've tried that, and it seems to get botched up <rick_h_> it's scattered all over the map unfortunately. It all depends on where the data is coming from, going to, etc <snap-l> blergh <rick_h_> have your script up on pastebin? <snap-l> no, not right ow <rick_h_> if you want can take a peek, also CHC if you want <rick_h_> but basically have to trace the text from the whole script lifecycle tracking what 'format' it's in each step of the way <snap-l> problem is I'm not sure if the fault is with my script or with the system that I'm using <rick_h_> right <snap-l> Holy shit, now it's working. <rick_h_> coolio <snap-l> some days I really hate computers. :) <snap-l> Even better, I need to do some investigation on UTF-16 <brousch> unicode is a bitch <brousch> makes me want to punch babies <rick_h_> yea, and UTF-16LE and more and more <snap-l> English is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for everyone else. <snap-l> (I love how ignorant that statement is) <_stink_> will you CC license that so i can put it on my business card? <snap-l> _stink_: Author unknown <_stink_> sounds like you are encouraging copyright infringement <snap-l> It's attributed to a bunch of folks <snap-l> Wow, OpenOffice is now an Apache project <snap-l> I have a feeling the only folks that will be investing in OO.o and not Libreoffice are IBM. <jrwren> they will probably merge back together now that sunoracle is gone <rick_h_> I have dir sample/testdir/filesx.. <rick_h_> and I want to create a tar of only testdir/filesxxx <rick_h_> without the sample? <rick_h_> any hints on how to flag that in tar czf? <jrwren> chdir before you tar :) <rick_h_> yea, but then the file is in the spot I don't want, etc. <jrwren> or invoke tar with -C <rick_h_> oh well, just making sure I wasn't missing something everyone else knew <rick_h_> I tried that but kept getting an archive called C <jrwren> tar -C sample -czf output testdir/filesxxx <jrwren> or <_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf sample/testdir/{something}'? <jrwren> err... no or. <_stink_> er <_stink_> you know <rick_h_> bah, that works <_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf blah.tar.gz sample/testdir/{something}'? <jrwren> yeah, what _stink_ asys too? <rick_h_> when I do that, the archive contains an outer dir sample <jrwren> err.. right. <_stink_> oh i see <rick_h_> when I extract, I don't want sample as part of the result <_stink_> sorry, right <_stink_> yeah <_stink_> gotcha now <rick_h_> I think the -C is working <rick_h_> I wasn't using a - flag on my czf <rick_h_> I think that confused it <rick_h_> tar czf vs tar -czf <snap-l> You can also rsync the files to a tmp directory, and then tar them. ;) <rick_h_> well I am writing a python script, might as well tar = TarFile();tar.add(sample/blah/blah.py) one by one :P <_stink_> hah <snap-l> I wish Google Voice had the ability to discern if callers are going to leave a voice mail <snap-l> and if not, then it doesn't ring my linda89@example.com. <rick_h_> mind reading, that's a good feature <snap-l> I'd pay an extra $1 for that <greg-g> just build into g-voice whatever it was that was built into the elevators in H2G2 <jrwren> rolf @ the rsync <jrwren> Down is nice too. <snap-l> jrwren: Don't tell me you've never done that. ;) <jrwren> i don't actually recall doing it... but you are right, i probably have. <rick_h_> umm really?! http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/01/twitter-photos-search/ <Blazeix> photobucket? they're still around? <rick_h_> no kidding <brousch> are you kidding me? I just bought a Cr-48 at lunch and now google sends me an invite to a pre-sale for the new google chromebook <rick_h_> brought? <rick_h_> bought? <brousch> yeah <brousch> off a guy that didn't want it <rick_h_> I didn't know they sold any <brousch> technically not supposed to sell them <rick_h_> oh, well come on man, they annouced back at google io they were going to have new dual core models coming in June <brousch> yeah, but it's not supposed to be for 2 weeks <rick_h_> so you're mad you got an email 2wk ahead of launch you knew was coming? <brousch> if it had come 4 hours ago i might not have bought the cr-48 <brousch> ah well, the samsung chromebook is $500 <brousch> more than i want to spend right now <rick_h_> yea, they're both over $400 <brousch> this is not an announcement of the june 15 launch, this is an invite to an early release sale, so i could buy it now <rick_h_> you should have told me you wanted to buy one :P <rick_h_> ah, interesting <brousch> i may want more ;) <brousch> i have a feeling my son will take over this one <rick_h_> yea, I just moved mine out of the way again <rick_h_> just nothing over my laptop so I don't use it much <rick_h_> but still like it so don't get rid of it <brousch> i'm excited about it. i think it will be great for tech-impared parents and grandparents <rick_h_> yea, my uncle uses it when he comes over <brousch> i thought these things were supposed to be super cheap <rick_h_> heh, well they have 3g, more storage, dual cores, people want nice hardware <rick_h_> I mean, think about how much that cell phone of yours costs, and that's a smaller display <brousch> $99 <rick_h_> oh right...hahahahahahahahahaha <rick_h_> I'll let google know to start sending you an $80/mo bill right away <brousch> i think they have the same storage and ram as the cr-48 <rick_h_> I think they were supposed to have a little more storage since they support pluggin in sdcards and such for loading photos <rick_h_> plus the sdcard slot, the support for the usb cameras/etc <brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook <rick_h_> gotcha <jrwren> why buya chrome book? <jrwren> you can just download a chromeOS build adn run it on your laptop. <brousch> i did that. it was an annoying layer on suse <jrwren> oh, it was suse? I didn't notice that when i watched it boot :) <brousch> opensuse <brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-06-01%20at%203.15.18%20PM.png <rick_h_> heh, only selling the 3g model eh <brousch> i guess <rick_h_> the 3g is cool, 100mb in a crisis is some worthy bandwidth for free <brousch> true <brousch> GR just had its verizon 4g turned on today <rick_h_> yea, we've got it out here so I'm itching whenever I hit crappy wifi out there <rick_h_> but I spent 2yr on an ATT contract with a pcmcia modem <rick_h_> ugh for another contract <rick_h_> ok brousch hit you up to the pyohio crew so you get a bonus point <rick_h_> now you HAVE to submit :P <brousch> yeah, i put it out there so i'd feel more guilt if i didn't follow through ;) <jrwren> this is sweet http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette <brousch> jrwren: that is pretty cool <jrwren> its kinda nuts that it disassembles and reassembles <brousch> Is it? I have no idea <jrwren> well, think about it. <jrwren> lets take native x86 or x64 code, turn it back into asm, diff that, ship that, then let the cilent turn the asm back into x86 or x64 <jrwren> that is practically like recompiling on teh client side. <jrwren> it means they ship an assembler as part of the diff program AFAICT <snap-l> I can't believe they're selling these at $400 a pop <snap-l> Pretty crippled machines, if you ask me. <snap-l> (the chrome laptops) <brousch> $500 <brousch> the asus will be $400, but they have smaller screens <snap-l> Even worse <brousch> supposedly you can install linux ;) <snap-l> I can do that on just about any machine <snap-l> $199 would have been my limit for buying a chrome book <snap-l> but $500 is too expensive for a crippled machine <brousch> yeah, this thing would have to rock to spend $500 on it <brousch> i was expecting a $200 price point <rick_h_> really? I mean for $200 you can't get a ton of electronic gear <rick_h_> I mean, an LCD tv is 300/400 <_stink_> i think it has more to do with the cost for a bottom of the line laptop. <_stink_> like what, $400? <_stink_> for a normal laptop? <rick_h_> I mean the ereaders are barely at that price point <_stink_> but bottom of the line? <rick_h_> yea, but these are better hardware than bottom of the line <rick_h_> and that price point is with 3g and subsidized 100mb/mo of 3g service <rick_h_> to expect a laptop, running flash, with cpu, memory, radios, etc for $200 is nuts <rick_h_> this thing is a laptop, it's only the OS that's different. Sure, a smaller hard drive, but still just a low end laptop <brousch> but these are supposed to be disposable <brousch> $500 is not disposable <rick_h_> that cell phone is $500 and people treat those as disposable <rick_h_> how many lost/etc smart phones per year <jjesse> i was suprised by cost as well <jjesse> do they come w/ cell contract or something to keep you always connected? <brousch> no one pays $500, they pay $99 and then the rest is rolled into the monthly bill <rick_h_> right, these come sans monthly bill, you're welcome <brousch> and i don't know anyone that treats a smartphone as disposable <rick_h_> that doesn't negate the fact that if you lose your smartphone, you're not getting a second for $99 <rick_h_> I just mean that people lose/drop them and go buy another <rick_h_> that's disposable <rick_h_> they give $500 iphones to their 11yr olds <rick_h_> that's disposable <brousch> for $500 i can get an ipad2. why would i choose a bulky chromebook? <rick_h_> bulky? you mean a 12" little machine with a full sized keyboard? <_stink_> for the OS, i guess <rick_h_> because you want to plug in a camera and upload photos <brousch> the OS is a stripped-down linux with a web browser <rick_h_> that's why <_stink_> i think i had a preconception that chromeos would be shipped on total piece of shit, cheap hardware. <rick_h_> because you want to hook up a webcam and do a conference call <rick_h_> no, they're trying to sell these to school's/businesses <brousch> ipads have cameras now :P <rick_h_> they can't be crap hardware that dies every 6mo <_stink_> if it's targeted to businesses, then i can see $500 as a reasonable price <rick_h_> brousch: heh, yes they have a camera that's hailed across the tablet verse as "crap" and that's the nicer backside one <brousch> _stink_: i agree. i had the impression of a netbook-like hardware for cheap <brousch> maybe it will get to that point <rick_h_> that's exacltyh why they've never said "netbook" in any accouncement/press release <brousch> these are the first few models <rick_h_> they've always said notebook, always been at least 12" <rick_h_> the thing is the same size as my x201, but 1/4 the price <brousch> the asus is 11.6" :P <rick_h_> whatever, got me there <brousch> don't get me wrong, i want it to succeed <brousch> which is why i'd like to see it for cheaper <rick_h_> I don't want crap hardware. The touchpad and screen on this cr-48 leave a lot to be desired <rick_h_> if people are going to use this thing, travel with it, etc it needs to hold up to use better than a $500 toshiba laptop crap machine <brousch> 1280x800 at 12" is better resolution than my mbp <rick_h_> apple puts crap displays on their laptops <rick_h_> I go nuts whenever I think about peeking at them <jrwren> not to mention its basically useless offline, right? <jrwren> I mean, how many chrome apps do offline mode? <rick_h_> jrwren: but with 3g built in, that's rarer <jrwren> if you are urban, sure. <rick_h_> and they announced this June/july most of the google apps would get offline mode <brousch> well it has a 16GB SSD and SD slot, so it must have some offline capabilities <jrwren> but what if you are country folk? <rick_h_> not for everyone <rick_h_> I'm not arguing that, but for schools/businesses with wifi, mobile workforce using web based CRM packages, etc <jrwren> yeah, a giant browser cache and space for html5 -data :) <rick_h_> they're not bad machines, more solid than a cheap laptop at that point <jrwren> oh sure, it has some great use cases. <brousch> my dad and wife's parents are in the boondocks and they get verizon signal. i think connectivity is becoming less of a problem <jrwren> 3G ? <rick_h_> my aunt in VA has no signal to any carrier <brousch> sometimes <rick_h_> I mean no signal, not normal, edge, or 4g <rick_h_> 3g <jrwren> I can drive through town and story is same for ATT & VZ... 3G, E, no coverage, 3G E, no coverage :) <rick_h_> so there are places, but I think that's a minority of the market <jrwren> yeah, down my street there is a no signal zone :) <jrwren> i was on MSFT campus and there was a dead hallway with no signal!!! <brousch> if these things get down to $200, i can maybe put them in the shop <brousch> they won't last a year out there, but maybe at that price it's worth it <rick_h_> for a business you get in bed with the monthly sub program <rick_h_> then you get replacements, etc <rick_h_> thing dies, get a new one sent to you <brousch> that could work <jrwren> i think it might be good for old laptops. <jrwren> because ubuntu doesn't run on old laptops... maybe chromos will :) <rick_h_> right now it doesn't run on intel does it? <rick_h_> natively? <brousch> and it really makes my web-based version of our internal software look much more valuable <jrwren> there are 3rd party builds. <jrwren> i don't think the google builds are exactly open source. <jrwren> its more like the android model. <rick_h_> right <rick_h_> brousch: oh definitely, things like quickbooks online and such make a TON more sense in this model <rick_h_> especially because these things are so locked down, leaking your .qbk file or whatnot is much much harder if not near impossible <jrwren> tablets have made web based internal apps a *good thing* too <rick_h_> yea, but many of those business apps really require a keyboard <brousch> well, quickbooks specifically will not be replaced, but our access/foxpro systems will be <rick_h_> I look at all the data entry my wife does in her medical mgt software <rick_h_> they talk about ipad versions, but man, that would just suck <jrwren> yeah, that would suck BIG TIME <rick_h_> I think a lot of the use cases, insurance adjusters, etc fall under that same model <rick_h_> but yea, as PoS stuff, an ipad would rock <rick_h_> the square solution for that is so interesting <brousch> square? <rick_h_> give one to a few employees roaming the store helping employees and ditch the old idea of the checkout line <jrwren> i think you are very right. <rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/03/square-ipad/ <jrwren> prior to that apple store employees actually used Windows CE 6.x devices to check you out!!! <rick_h_> not saying it'd work everywhere, but would make for some interesting tests/themes out there <brousch> ah, the comic book store had me use that a month or so ago <rick_h_> yea, it's pretty interesting. Penguicon used one of their readers for doing CC payments this year <rick_h_> ok, time to go finish up and get the boy. How much time left before CHC?! <brousch> speaking of 4g, one of the windows guys reports: Using speediest on thunderbolt, 25.42 down, 1.47 up <brousch> speedtest i think he means <jrwren> CHC??? ppfff... I'm speaking at AACS tonight! Come hear that! <brousch> whowha? <snap-l> I <3 my wife <snap-l> she brings home some neat toys <snap-l> This is an old SUn Ray terminal that doesn't appear to have anything to talk do <snap-l> to, rather <brousch_> am i here now? <brousch_> ok, the cr-48 is nice! <brousch_> excellent touchpad. rick_h_ i don't know what you're complaining about <brousch_> not quite MBP quality, but better than most other PC touchpads #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-02 <greg-g> man, so much discussion I missed today during work :) <brousch_> stop working so hard <greg-g> brousch_: sorry, I'll work harder on... dangit! <rick_h_> doh <rick_h_> poor greg-g can't win <snap-l> heh <brousch_> anyone want an irccloud invite? <snap-l> I'm good, thanks. <brousch_> d00d. it's irc <brousch_> in <brousch_> the <brousch_> cloud <snap-l> still good. ;) <greg-g> I've got irc in my personal cloud <brousch_> wrong. it's not the cloud unless it's html5 <rick_h_> irc + html == fail <brousch_> it's really pretty good <brousch_> what did you use for irc on the cr-48? <brousch_> oh, apparently catherine devlin was lurking on the grpug email list. she saw me mention a presentation and now i'm really on the hook <jjesse_> whose catherine devlin? * jjesse_ is stupid <brousch_> jjesse: organizer of pyohio <rick_h_> She's come out and given some talks in A2 and such as well <rick_h_> OLF fan <greg-g> yeah, good gal <brousch_> ok, my goal is a blog post and pyohio proposal tonight <brousch_> quit distracting me <rick_h_> widox: http://uploads.mitechie.com/index.html <rick_h_> http://unserializableone.blogspot.com/2007/09/simple-directory-browser-for-amazon-s3.html <rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1003755 <jrwren> snap-l: there is linux sunray server stuff. you get it rollin yet? <brousch_> hm, hit my first snag with chromeos. how to edit a rst file? <jrwren> vim? <jrwren> nano? <jrwren> joe? <brousch_> it's a web browser <brousch_> no java <brousch_> no shell <brousch_> ah, sent it to dropbox and then i can edit it in sourcekit <jrwren> surely you can get a shell? <brousch_> i don't think so <brousch_> ok, found a shell <brousch_> no nano or vi though <_stink_> sed? <brousch_> it has ssh, so you can edit stuff on remote servers <brousch_> which is consistent with the chromeos philosophy <brousch_> i'll have to make a little file dump on dreamhost where i can plop things and then ssh to edit them with vim <brousch_> oh, nice. i can make windows and switch between them using alt+1 - alt+0. this means i can organize pretty much how i do in osx and linux <brousch_> ctrl+1 - ctrl+0 switches between tabs in the current window <snap-l> jrwren: Not yet. <snap-l> I gave it about 15 minutes of fiddling <snap-l> But yeah, I think I'll set up pa VM and get the oracle server running <rick_h_> brousch_: src:kit app is great <rick_h_> ah, nvm you found it as a catch up <brousch_> quite nice <snap-l> brousch_: The shell / terminal that ships wth ChromeOS is pretty rough <brousch_> and uses dropbox, so all the docs are synced to my desktop/laptop <rick_h_> you can unlock it and get access to a better terminal and even some better ssh <snap-l> Part of the reason I couldn't deal with it. <rick_h_> brousch_: yea, I used src:kit for doing notes at pycon <rick_h_> create rst files, and then when I went to do my podcast, they were on my main laptop <rick_h_> supposedly it's gotten better, I saw a commit that it supports ssh keys now <brousch_> ok, well i got the blog post out and half of the pyohio proposal typed up. i'm calling it a night <rick_h_> awesome <rick_h_> let me know if you need a hand with the pyohio stuff at all <brousch_> it seems pretty easy <rick_h_> I'm out myself, night <brousch_> nedd to sleep on the extended description and outline <snap-l> rick_h_: orly? <snap-l> That was a big bugaboo for me <snap-l> OK, off to do some dishes. Laterness, everyone! <rick_h_> I'm going to citizen's arrest you all for sharing pandora account passwords: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/06/02/0342220/Tennessee-Makes-it-Illegal-To-Share-Your-Netflix-Password <rick_h_> snap-l: watched the win8 video...it has tiling! lol <greg-g> :P <brousch> finally, a mainstream window manager for rick_h_! <brousch> meating, bbl <greg-g> I find it interesting how my right click menu in gnome-terminal is unavailable when firefox locks up <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, heard that password sharing thing on NPR last night. That's just dumb. <greg-g> jcastro: way to speak the truth in that newsletter blogpost <snap-l> rick_h_: That Windows 8 video goes against everything I've ever loved about the desktop interface <snap-l> I think the best metaphor is the cluttered board behind the screen. <snap-l> It's too cluttered. <rick_h_> come on, we all knew the start menu would need a breakout box at some point <rick_h_> not like windows is going to launcher style <snap-l> The computer now looks like the fucking weather channel <snap-l> It also looks grafted <ColonelPanic001> it amuses me that I frequently, daily, hear a word processor in this office <greg-g> what is it saying? <ColonelPanic001> beep beep beep beep <_stink_> yeah, we should publicly shame whoever uses it <ColonelPanic001> or should <snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/06/01/open-metalcast-special-announcement/ <snap-l> Yay, getting Internet Explorer 8 on my machine <snap-l> along with a warning that not all company applications are compatible with INternet Explorer 8 <snap-l> At least someone is trying to rip the band-aid off. <rick_h_> IE8? Haven't you heard...that's old <rick_h_> <3'd that Google is deprecating IE7 on google apps <snap-l> Hey, at least someone is trying to get us out of this mess. <brousch> i had no idea there was a weekly ubuntu newsletter <krondor> firesheep for android http://faceniff.ponury.net/ <snap-l> brousch_: Yeah, it's been kicking for a while now <PainBank> anyone try out the Meego distro? <Blazeix> I tried it out a few months ago. it's pretty slick <PainBank> what hardware? <Blazeix> eee pc s101 <Blazeix> atom cpu <PainBank> cool, thanks. easy to install? <Blazeix> yeah, very easy. they provide a usb stick image. <PainBank> i'm at IESF - a 1 day conf hosted by Mentor Graphics and there is a bit of talk about Linux in the future in vehicles. <PainBank> GENIVI.org seems to be a user group focused on this. <snap-l> Apparently Borders is moving all of their eBooks over to Kobo <snap-l> The confusion between the two must've been way too much <rick_h_> from what? <rick_h_> what was the other reader? sony? <snap-l> Borders had their own storefront <rick_h_> oic <snap-l> and the readers sold by Borders went to that storefront <rick_h_> that's a good thing for kobo <snap-l> they're sending an update which will likely send that over to Kobo now <rick_h_> their new reader is getting rave reviews, but the store side is still something that holds me back from one of them <snap-l> Well, it's pretty stupid to have two separate apps <snap-l> Esp if you use the iPhone app <snap-l> We'll see how this works <snap-l> They already had me merge my library <rick_h_> cool <snap-l> which means I have access to the one book that I bought from Kobo as an experiment with the Sony <snap-l> I'm one of their best eBook customers, though, even though I bought only two eBooks from the Borders store. ;) <rick_h_> lol <snap-l> One stross book (just to see how it worked) and JoDee bought a Dr. Who book. <snap-l> Sorry, Doctor Who. ;) <snap-l> Apparently there's several updates since I last turned on the wireless. :) <rick_h_> http://www.i-programmer.info/news/87-web-development/2517-google-webrtc-browser-based-communications.html <snap-l> Interesting, but not too hopeful <snap-l> http://www.kobobooks.com/touch_readinglife <snap-l> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot <greg-g> hey man, badges are the new thing. everyone likes them, even rick_h_ ! <rick_h_> hah! gamification time <rick_h_> yea, I missed the boy scout phase to get badges then <snap-l> Third update. <rick_h_> heh, see how much better your device could have been? <rick_h_> gotta do the updates :P <snap-l> Apparently. <snap-l> Fourth update. <snap-l> Wonder if I'm in an update loop <greg-g> what are you updating? <greg-g> ah e-reader <snap-l> I've lost count on the upgrades <snap-l> I think it's up to 8 or so <snap-l> They rolled out 1.9, and I was on something like 1.7 <snap-l> with a bunch of minor upgrades along the way. <snap-l> Yeah, this thing is just caught in a loop <snap-l> it's not updating shit <rick_h_> uh oh <snap-l> Yeah, did a reset on it to see if that takes care of it <snap-l> of course that means I have to type in all of my passwords again <snap-l> yippee <snap-l> probably ran out of room. :) * snap-l runs a tight ship on his ereader. <rick_h_> you have password(s) on your ereader? <snap-l> Well, this inspector has about 15 minutes to get here <snap-l> yeah, for the store and wifi <rick_h_> inspector? <rick_h_> ah, gotcha <brousch> rick_h_ snap-l would you mind taking a peek at my proposal to make sure i'm not being stupid? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/cfp_template_2011.rst <brousch> this is my first conference talk <rick_h_> looks good, <snap-l> Great, now I'm able to kill my kobo with the Learning Python epub book <brousch> python won't run on kobo <rick_h_> well I think it is the largest python book known <snap-l> THing is it was able to run just fine beforehand <snap-l> fucking piece of shit <rick_h_> should send them an email :) <snap-l> Yeah, that'll be productive <rick_h_> maybe they can get you one of the newer models <rick_h_> for a small $ee <brousch> they'll send you a $10 gift card for borders <brousch> ok, sending in the proposal <rick_h_> "not valid with any other offer, or on days that end in 'Y'" <rick_h_> brousch: awesome! <rick_h_> I'll try to help support you when the flames come in :) <brousch> haha, thanks <rick_h_> with gondor.io, heroku, etc the concept of the "server > cloud" is going to raise some fur <brousch> i saw a note last night that they've only gotten 6 proposals so far <rick_h_> yea, was just checking in there <rick_h_> he said they had 12 at this point last time <brousch> well i'm not saying don't use the cloud, just use a regular old server until you need the cloud <rick_h_> kind of crazy, they grew nearly 2x each year...wonder what's up this year <brousch> a good question <brousch> crap, i forgot to request that i not be put up against rick_h_. i really need the sqlalchemy tutorial <brousch> now i need to dive into more Flask so i'm better prepared <TeamXlink> Today at school the pc repair teacher was giving out parts, and one of the things I got was a Compaq DeskPro EN (Small Form Factor Version), As of now, it has a 133mhz Pentium III And 384mb RAM, I want to use it to host a game server, most likely a Warsow, or Quake III Arena server. Which Distro should I use, its going to be a dedicated server, a gui is not needed (Not wanted either). <snap-l> You could probably put something like Ubuntu Server on that <snap-l> though I'm not sure how much memory that would need. <TeamXlink> Alright, sweet, thanks. <_stink_> last i tried a stock ubuntu server install, it ran fine with 256 MB RAM <TeamXlink> Should I use the latest version? <snap-l> I'd stick with something like 10.04 <TeamXlink> Alright, sweet thanks. #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-03 <greg-g> g'morn <rick_h_> morning <snap-l> Good morning <brousch> yes <snap-l> It's still a good morning, no? <rick_h_> not really <brousch> rick_h_ -- <snap-l> Buncha negative nancies. <rick_h_> dude, you go fixing html parsing beautiful soup issues first thing in the morning because the moron company did what you said not to do <rick_h_> and then can't swallow because throat is swollen shut <rick_h_> and see how happy your friday gets :) <snap-l> I'm going to do something stupid. I'm going to change my corporate password on a Friday <rick_h_> lol, so long monday login <snap-l> rick_h_: You shouldn't have made a big deal about the thing that moron company did <rick_h_> hah <rick_h_> well I just love waking up and checking my email only to see "IMPORTANT NEED FIX" <rick_h_> from the boss <snap-l> "Don't use div tags in tables. Don't use div tags in tables". "What were we supposed to do?" "Use div tags in tables" <brousch> rick_h_ i'm gonna sign you up for one of the first robotic bodies. your organic one is always broken <rick_h_> brousch: definitely, sign me up. <rick_h_> I thought having a child was supposed to ravage the wife, she's fine. <rick_h_> I'm the one dying since the little man came along <brousch> oh no, i get sick 5x more often since the boy <snap-l> rick_h_: That's because she deals with bugs on a daily basis. <brousch> perfect attendence through HS, college, and work until he came along. now i get sinus infections 2 or 3 times a year <rick_h_> but yea, so far I've fixed my bosses logging setup, fixed his password login issue, and fixed parsing html with regex magic <snap-l> as opposed to someone who bitches about one little bug in Beautiful Soup. :) <snap-l> Sheesh. :) <rick_h_> it's not even 9am and I feel like I'm done for the day <rick_h_> and I need to figure out how to call the doc to make an appt when I can't talk <brousch> TTS <rick_h_> where's those voice synth apps when you need one <snap-l> TTD <rick_h_> lol <rick_h_> think I'll use the text-wife relay system <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_devices_for_the_deaf <brousch> i'll bet there's one for android, but it probably won't work while the phone is going <snap-l> Just go to a swanky hotel that has one of these, and use that. <brousch> here ya go, and it's command line http://www.xenocafe.com/tutorials/php/festival_text_to_speech/index.php <snap-l> "Yes I'd like to make an appointment" <snap-l> "around 2 colon zero zero pm, please" <snap-l> "stupid sin-th-sizer" <snap-l> brb. <brousch> please record the phone call <snap-l> greg-g: Here's to hoping that some sanity can come to the copyright discussion re: < 1923 recordings <snap-l> I'm sure the big band sounds of [insert obscure name here] are really making the RIAA a killing <brousch> listen to http://www.grcmc.org/radio/ at noon to hear me embarrass myself on the radio <snap-l> brousch: It's community college linda89@example.com. Nobody listens. ;) <brousch> community radio, not college affiliated <brousch> greg-g kind of radio <snap-l> Oh, even better. ;) <_stink_> http://www.grcmc.org/radio/programmer_detail.php?programmer_id=144 <brousch> i didn't even know the dial went down to 88.1 <snap-l> (although, when I did my rubber duckie show, I did get someone at the major stations to comment on how ridiculous it was) <_stink_> this program? <brousch> _stink_: no <brousch> it's just an interview with me and another grwebdev guy <_stink_> ah <brousch> airs at noon if you do the "isten live" <brousch> listen online <snap-l> http://www.grcmc.org/radio/?npad=1&news_id=1417 <snap-l> Wow, they have a 10,000 watt transmitter <brousch> hm, maybe it is part of that segment, but airs at noon not 9:30 <snap-l> http://www.michiguide.com/dials/rad-y/wyce.html <brousch> bah, nevermind, we got bumped to the 24th <_stink_> aw man <snap-l> And here I was getting ready to listen. <brousch> me too, and sent out an announcement via half a dozen mediums <snap-l> We are most certainly living in the future. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqRwxAYtato <snap-l> Bah, forget that link. <snap-l> We are most certainly living in the future. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn2JISG3ZBE <snap-l> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/a-gift-for-my-successor <- Wow <rick_h_> grumble grumble... <snap-l> greg-g: http://www.musicimprint.com/Chart.aspx?Id=C000087 <snap-l> If we don't get the copyright reform, are these songs still going to be controlled by copyright? <greg-g> if the federalization doesn't happen, then tons of stuff will still be in-(C) until around 2063 (2060-something) <greg-g> the techdirt article on this is (unsurprisingly) good <greg-g> brousch_: I don't hear you on that radio <greg-g> brousch_: oh, I didn't finish reading scrollback, nevermind <snap-l> greg-g: It got pushed to the 24th <snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/75271417 <smoser> fyi... https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=265 <snap-l> tx <rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/service-oriented/soap-versus-rest-battle-still-haunts-us/7093 <snap-l> âSOAP isnât complex, technically it might suck, but conceptually its simple,â <snap-l> Sort of like the legal code. <snap-l> conceptually, it's quite simple. <snap-l> I will say, though, that SOAP does solve a particularly hard problem. <snap-l> Unfortunately it was designed in an era where XML was going to solve all of our data interoperability problems and free us to think of problems that weren't related to data. <snap-l> (har har) <Milyardo> What problem does SOAP solve? <jrwren> the client/server shared schema problem. <jrwren> or at least WSDL part of soap solves it. <Milyardo> I still don't see how that compares to REST which is a design pattern for mananging application states <Milyardo> what does that have to do with a RPC Protocol? <Milyardo> Are they considered exclusive because SOAP isn't "stateless" <snap-l> Well, if you add WADL, you get something comparable to SOAP <snap-l> er, SOAP / WSDL <Milyardo> I guess idempotent was the word I was looking for when describing SOAP <Milyardo> instead of stateless <Milyardo> Still don't understand how WSDL relates <snap-l> Well, SOAP allegedly solves the problem of getting disparate machines to exchange information <snap-l> WSDL allows one to generate machine code off of a description <Milyardo> what doe having a description of your interface have to do with managing the state of your application? <snap-l> Two separate problems <snap-l> 1) Describe the interface (WSDL) <snap-l> 2) Send the data (SOAP) <snap-l> and WADL is apparently the answer for the RESTful folks to create an interface for generating machine code. <snap-l> (unfortunately, it's also a television station that plays 1/3 televangelists, 1/3 syndicated content, and 1/3 infomercials here in Detroit) <snap-l> so I have a harder time taking it seriously. ;) <brousch> it's also an amusing type of locomotion <Milyardo> So just for clairity, SOAP == Document Protocol, REST == Application design patter, and WSDL = Interface definition, where do any of those technolgies become exclusive with one another? <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_State_Transfer#SOAP_RPC_contrast <snap-l> I think you're making an incorrect distinction between SOAP and REST. <Milyardo> All it says is that SOAP RPC implementations encourage developers to do things that aren't RESTful <Milyardo> not that SOAP itself is somehow compareable or exclusive with REST for some reason <Milyardo> So basically, I was write an application that is RESTful and uses SOAP, but that difficult, because WSDL defined methods easily let manage the state of my application beacuse I don't know the possible states a resource will have until runtime? <Milyardo> *I can <Milyardo> s/easily/don't easily <Milyardo> no that still doesn't make sense <Milyardo> You can't compare REST to SOAP <jrwren> <3 WADL. <jrwren> comcast took it away. <jrwren> but i want my WADL back. <jrwren> i might go digital just for WADL <jrwren> you can totally compare REST to SOAP. <jrwren> watch. <jrwren> REST > SOAP <jrwren> see how I did that? <_stink_> haha <snap-l> jrwren: Hahahaha <snap-l> Hey devinheitmueller <devinheitmueller> snap-l: hello there <snap-l> Getting ready to head out to celebrate my dad's birthday. <snap-l> Trying to surprise him a bit <snap-l> I'm sure my mom has pretty much given it all away, though <snap-l> she keeps a secret like a cat keeps a canary in it's mouth <rick_h_> have fun <snap-l> thanks! #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-04 <brousch> grrrr, too many ittle annoyances with osx python <brousch> time to pull out the ubuntu laptop <Dekkard2> anyone actually using unity? <greg-g> well, I would have said I am <greg-g> though, I did just talk to a Math PhD student who is switching to KDE when he upgrades to 11.04 <snap-l> I am on a laptop <snap-l> though that's not 100% <snap-l> And I think we're just talking amongst ourselves. <greg-g> indeed <snap-l> Good morning <jcastro> rick_h_: man, having a massive die off in my tank <jcastro> only the tough tetras remain <snap-l> What's dying off? <snap-l> (I mean, what sort of fish?) <jcastro> the non tough ones <snap-l> Well, no shit. :) <jcastro> it all started when one of them got stuck in the filter <jcastro> and I didn't notice it <jcastro> and it was dead <jcastro> feeding death and ammonia throughout the whole tank <jcastro> and then my bottom feeders died <snap-l> Oh, not good. <jcastro> but I didn't notice the dead body of the one in the filter <jcastro> so I've been doing water changes, etc. <jcastro> one of them was bloated and not looking so hot today <jcastro> so I had to commit murder <greg-g> :( <_stink_> you are a ruthless god of the fish tank. <jcastro> he had something contagious <jcastro> he had to go <jcastro> :( <greg-g> sucky <snap-l> Man, I am out of shape <snap-l> Mowed the back yard, and winded myself <snap-l> Not good <snap-l> jcastro: Can totally relate <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/category/fish/ <snap-l> http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2qlLD0/www.simplimg.com/product_images/obejection.jpg <rick_h_> jcastro: ouch, doesn't sound good <rick_h_> sometimes I think the little planet needs to go through an cleansing I guess <rick_h_> hopefully not too much $$ in the inhabitants <TeamXlink> I've gotten a 2.8 GHZ Pentium 4, It supports HyperThreading, but I've read that most games don't benefit from it, because there not coded to use it, So I've disabled it, however, in the bios it reports it as 1.4 GHZ, but the OS reports it as 2.8 GHZ. <TeamXlink> Seeing as 1.4 GHZ is half of 2.8GHZ I think this might have something to do with HyperThreading. <TeamXlink> Thoughts? <snap-l> TeamXlink: Why did you decide to turn off Hyperthreading? <snap-l> I don't think there's any harm in turning it on <TeamXlink> I've turned it off because it hurts performance in the games I play most. <snap-l> Which games? <TeamXlink> Mainly Quakeworld and Warsow. <snap-l> What does it do to the performance of those games? <TeamXlink> It lowers the performance. <TeamXlink> EDIT: <TeamXlink> It lowers the FPS. <snap-l> Are you sure it's not a problem with your video card not being able to keep up? <snap-l> Wow, I'm amazed at how much detail is in this recording from 1959 <snap-l> Yeah, I know that the analog technology was refined more than improved, but still <snap-l> remarkable. #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-05 <rick_h_> time to hide <rick_h_> the wife is having a bachlorette party at the house so hiding in the office <rick_h_> phew, what an exhausting day, everyone else partying hard? <snap-l> rick_h_: Ugh, sorry to hear that. <rick_h_> all good, means I can hack on bookie without guilt <greg-g> I just woke up from 3 hour nap, and I'm still tired <snap-l> greg-g: Ugh, sorry to hear that. <rick_h_> heh, with you there <rick_h_> when the boy went for his nap I took one as well <rick_h_> he ran me ragged today <greg-g> nice <rick_h_> snap-l: got my mic pre-amp. Will have to test it out later on <rick_h_> crazy how much it can amp this mic <snap-l>
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