#ayatana 2009-10-01 * MacSlow -> lunch #ayatana 2009-10-02 <lamalex> Does the indicator still change when people sign on? I thought it was decided to kill that behaviour at uds <hyperair> is notify-osd supposed to ignore CloseNotification calls? * hyperair tickles MacSlow <MacSlow> no <MacSlow> yes <MacSlow> well <MacSlow> you can issue that on DBus, but it'll not close the notification-bubble <MacSlow> as that sort of control lies only within the scope of notify-osd itself, but not the applications <hyperair> it's a little annoying in the case of banshee. <MacSlow> hyperair, is that causing it to hang? <hyperair> banshee closes its notifications and opens a new one <hyperair> no, not causing it to hang <MacSlow> ah good <hyperair> but causing notifications to stack up <hyperair> there's another issue which may or may not be related to this, i.e. banshee and notify-osd both leak memory together <hyperair> i can't pinpoint when it happens <hyperair> it just does. <MacSlow> hyperair, the method of dealing with notifications (in case notify-osd is identified to be the responsbile notification-damon running on a system) is this <MacSlow> toss out a notification <MacSlow> keep it's id (notification object) <hyperair> mmhmm <MacSlow> when a new one need to be shown, just try to update the old one <hyperair> ah. update the old one eh.. <MacSlow> if the old one is gone already, it (notify-osd) will automatically create/open a new one <hyperair> i see. <MacSlow> if you need/want to append to an existing one use the append hint <hyperair> how does notification-daemon react to this behaviour by the client? <MacSlow> hyperair, for these cases there are C, C# and Python examples in notify-osd trunk <MacSlow> bzr branch lp:notify-osd <hyperair> ah thanks <MacSlow> cd notify-osd/examples <hyperair> i'll check it out <MacSlow> ./update-notifications.py <MacSlow> ./update-notifications.py <MacSlow> ups <hyperair> okay <MacSlow> ./append-hint-example.py <MacSlow> that shoudl get you stated <MacSlow> started <MacSlow> hyperair, do you work on a patch for banshee? <hyperair> MacSlow: i might, depending on how irritated this makes me <MacSlow> hyperair, sweet... stick to it... go for it! <hyperair> heh <hyperair> also depends on time constraints <hyperair> if i can find time * MacSlow crosses fingers <MacSlow> :) <hyperair> maybe i'll pass it on to laney <mdc_work> using notify-send i have to supply -t and -u otherwise the messages wont show up? is it supposed to be like that? (if so, the usage text for notify-send should be changed to state this) <hyperair> it shows up for me <hyperair> MacSlow: actually i've just come up with a patch already (the example's awesome) <hyperair> testing.. <MacSlow> hyperair, that's what the examples are for... ready to copy&paste stuff <hyperair> well i didn't exactly copy and paste =\ <hyperair> notify-sharp sure is an easy to use library <MacSlow> hyperair, whatever works best for you... as long as it helps you to get it your stuff done <hyperair> hahah <MacSlow> :) <hyperair> well thanks for the help anyways. i'll come running back if i have any more notify-osd issues =p <mdc_work> hyperair, did you mean that the notify shows up for you? <hyperair> mdc_work: yes. notify-send bla shows a notification containing 'bla' <mdc_work> hyperair, hmm.. strange.. well, i'll check after next reboot, thanks anyway :) <hyperair> MacSlow: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597099 <-- patch attached <ubot4`> Gnome bug 597099 in User Interface "Banshee's notifications stack up when using notify-osd" [Normal,Unconfirmed] <SiDi> hyperair: its a patch for banshee <hyperair> SiDi: i know it is. <SiDi> i dont know whats the procedure for bugfix patches / releases after beta, but i suppose if banshee is main then the desktop team would be the guys to review the patch ? <hyperair> i'm not asking him to review it. <hyperair> i'm just showing it to him in case he was interested. <SiDi> the patch has been attached in launchpad too ;) <MacSlow> hyperair, so this doesn't get overlooked, file a bug on lp against banshee linking to your bug/patch on gnome-bugzilla <hyperair> SiDi: oh right, you weren't around when i was talking to MacSlow earlier <MacSlow> hyperair, that way it'll not get lost <SiDi> hyperair: i wasnt <SiDi> did i miss something ? <hyperair> MacSlow: it won't. i maintain banshee's package. <hyperair> +s <MacSlow> SiDi, hyperair worked on banshee using notifications in a more "notify-osd-ish" way <MacSlow> hyperair, oh... I didn't know that... was about to ask who maintains banshee deb in debian/ubuntu land :) <SiDi> lp 334809 <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 334809 in banshee "design problem? infinite wait for long queue" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334809 <hyperair> ? * hyperair looks <MacSlow> SiDi, hm... sounds related <SiDi> what about putting the patch there ? <MacSlow> hyperair, SiDi: makes sense to me <SiDi> that was the bug report i thought you were speaking about, hyperair :) <hyperair> SiDi: oh hey there's a patch. * hyperair feels like he wasted his time <MacSlow> hyperair, yeah... just saw it too this very moment <hyperair> well see, this is what happens when you attach patches all over the place and not in the upstream bug tracker <SiDi> hyperair: :) <MacSlow> hyperair, it's Alex Murray "fault" not linking it to banshee upstream <SiDi> at least some ubuntu users to write patches... better than nothing. hyperair, arent you subscribed to banshee bugs in lp ? <SiDi> this way you can catch what goes on and put the bugs upstream. usually users wont do it for us ^^ <hyperair> SiDi: i'm subscribed to the ubuntu/+source/banshee bugs. <hyperair> i'm planning to spend sometime to dig through all the bugs to see what's still valid and what's not sometime <SiDi> when i did for exaile.... it took me several days :D <SiDi> there were almost 1K bugs, with some 300 or 400 feature requests and a good 200 invalid or outdated bugs <hyperair> well that sucks. <hyperair> by the way, i can't change the importance of any of the bugs. <hyperair> how do i go about that? <MacSlow> they should teach "good bug-report writing" at elementary school :) <SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/banshee/+subscribe hyperair <SiDi> hyperair: you're not the bug supervisor <MacSlow> ups <SiDi> https://launchpad.net/~slomo its that guy apparently <hyperair> meh. <hyperair> ah <hyperair> slomo eh. <SiDi> might wanna create a Banshee bug triage team * hyperair co-maintains banshee packages with slomo #ayatana 2009-10-03 <SiDi> mac_v: why would papercuts not be applicable for UNR / Xubuntu ? :) <SiDi> (especially for UNR actually... its kind of official, isnt it ?) <mac_v> SiDi: thats what i was told... only Ubunutu and Kubuntu... sadly not other derivatives <mac_v> even if they are official <mac_v> SiDi: and only the desktop editions of both > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCut <ScottK> I think it would be really smart if for the Lucid development cycle Paper Cuts would get defined as for Ubuntu the project, not Ubuntu the desktop. <SiDi> DanRabbit: hi there <DanRabbit> SiDi: hi :D <DanRabbit1> jonian: I'm going insane <DanRabbit1> I need your help #ayatana 2009-10-04 <lamalex> Is anyone from the design team around? <kwwii> hi lamalex <lamalex> Hey kwwii, I was wondering if someone from the design team could look at some UI for me and maybe give me some pointers for improvement <lamalex> I'm designing the contact selector for the telepathization of GNOME games for GNOME 3.0 <lamalex> http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2994/screenshot010z.png <lamalex> what I'm thinking I'm also going to do is do emblems, like Nautilus does of the contact's presense info on there <lamalex> kwwii: sound/look good? <mac_v> lamalex: hi... how are the contacts appearing there? i mean , is it auto imported from the telepathy's contact list or is list only from users already you'v played with? <lamalex> mac_v: it's from telepathy it's contacts that telepathy are identifying as contacts you can play with, and as people sign on/sign off contacts come and go <lamalex> we dont keep any kind of static list if that's what you're asking <mac_v> lamalex: oh... ok.. yeah ,i thought there was a static list... but could the logged in users be sorted as users who you have played with previously and just online contacts. Since its in a game , it would be nice if there were 2 columns of those. <lamalex> mac_v: like two sections? one with people you've played with, and one with everyone? <mac_v> lamalex: yeah , more like two columns , the left column people you'v played with... right> online contacts and instead of names below the user's pictures ... names beside the user's foto , so that would allow to add more info about the user... <mac_v> more info as in ... soemthing like , lost/won with user N times <mac_v> or something , about the status of user <lamalex> mac_v: that's getting to be way too much info <lamalex> how about something like this http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6126/selectormockupcategorie.png <lamalex> mac_v: the reason I'm asking is because we're designing a contact selector widget for all of the gnome games to use. So maybe in the API for it I could allow tooltips to be set on the contacts that could show some stats <lamalex> but i dont think it should be in the general area <mac_v> lamalex: yeah , something like that... but the 4 columns seems a bit over-crowded , the tooltips is a nice idea instead of adding info in the general area... its better to have the view simpler and more spaced out that was the reason i suggested names beside the picture, , arrange the friends you'v played in order of frequency of games played [the number of games should not be displayed though] <lamalex> mac_v: status -> alphabetical is definitely the way to organize friends <lamalex> possible not even by status and just alphabetically <mac_v> also , the contacts shouldnt repeat in the "everyone" <lamalex> then it's not everyone, they absolutely should repeat <lamalex> appearing in two places isn't necessarily a bad thing. The person appears in two groups, and should be represented in two groups <mac_v> lamalex: oh , i meant the frequency arrange order for the "players you'v already played with"... person appearing in the two groups is not bad... but rather not needed... since the second list will also be bigger. we can minimize the second "everyone" list imagine you'v played with 20 friends of the 30 , so there is unnecessary 20 in both , and the second list would be long , this we can minimize by not repeating <lamalex> well I think that's a failing of the "friends you've played with" group ramirezanna@example.org. I'm not really convinced it's very valuable <lamalex> if you remove people from the other group, now you kind of have to remember if you've played with the person or not to be able to find them <lamalex> which you may remember, may not. depends how long it's been <mac_v> the "everyone" needs to be rather > "Other online friends" <lamalex> I just addressed that <lamalex> 12:53 < lamalex> if you remove people from the other group, now you kind of have to remember if you've played with the person or not to be able to find them <mac_v> oh , irc delay <mac_v> ;) <lamalex> ah, ok :) <lamalex> I think that one group of everyone is probably best, and maybe show a row of the people you play most with <lamalex> so that if you play with someone all the time they're at the top very easy to find <mac_v> lamalex: yeah... , but when the list of the friends played with grows and if you play with all 30 friends ;) ? , then the everyone is repeated in both places... so either the list is a single one or two groups with no repetition is better <lamalex> mac_v: that's what I just addressed- don't show everyone you've played with <lamalex> show one row, and show the friends you've played most with <mac_v> oh... i misread! <lamalex> that keeps it from getting unwieldy, but also gives you access to your friends you play most with quickly <mac_v> lamalex: when you mentioned row , i thought 2 groups and first row for ... never mind ;) yeah that is better :) <mac_v> what you mentioned last <lamalex> I agree <mac_v> lamalex: is the window size resizable or fixed?... you might wanna consider having 3 columns , four seems a bit crowded <mac_v> with more space <lamalex> mac_v: it's resizable and yah i agree it needs more spacing #ayatana 2009-10-05 <hyperair> mac_v: do you know anything about notify-osd ignoring newlines in notifications? <mac_v> hyperair: huh? you mean not appending im lines? but instead showing them as bubbles? <mac_v> separate * <mac_v> hyperair: but i think MacSlow/Sidi would know more about this <hyperair> nono <hyperair> i'm talking something like notify-send title "body\nwith\nnew\nline" <hyperair> SiDi: ^? <hyperair> it's breaking banshee's now playing notifications <hyperair> and the wiki says that newlines should be treated as well newlines <hyperair> rather than ignored <mac_v> hyperair: $ notify-send "Title" "Body" imagename <hyperair> banshee's now playing notifications are formatted like: $title\n<i>$artist</i> <hyperair> note the \n <mac_v> oh that <mac_v> dont know <hyperair> it's ignored, so it ends up all in one line, and there's no way to see the difference between the title and the artist <SiDi> hyperair: i type my command in gedit with real CR and then i copy it to terminal <hyperair> hmm macslow's not around eh =( <hyperair> SiDi: and does notify-osd show it as a newline? <SiDi> ie. notify-send "hi <new line here> hi" <SiDi> yes <hyperair> SiDi: in banshee's case it seems to be ignoring the newline, treating it as a normal whitespace char <SiDi> somehow \n gets interpreted as '\''n' if you type it <mac_v> hyperair: i'v tried /n and it *used to* work with thunderbird... but now , i'l stopped using the extension <mac_v> \n* <hyperair> SiDi: well i typed notify-send title "body<enter>body" <SiDi> it works fine in exaile <hyperair> SiDi: could you pastebin the output of `dbus-monitor interface=org.freedesktop.Notifications` when exaile sends out one of its notifications please? <SiDi> err, how do i do that? :D <SiDi> oh, im stupid <hyperair> erm run said command and then press your next media button key or something? <SiDi> sec <hyperair> in addition, notify-osd seems to be ignoring the album art <SiDi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/286063/ <hyperair> hmm how strange <hyperair> SiDi: what is "Cry"? <hyperair> SiDi: it seems to be the title of the notification <hyperair> is it the album name or something? <SiDi> its the title <SiDi> We use the track title as the bubble title <SiDi> then "By foo\nFrom bar" <SiDi> but i changed mines a little :p <hyperair> hmm.. <mac_v> hyperair: how are you sending notify send? this is what i used for thunderbird > dy = body + subject + " ,from " + author + "\r\n" <mac_v> oops > body = body + subject + " ,from " + author + "\r\n" <hyperair> mac_v: from a terminal. <hyperair> to be a little moer sure, i did something like this as well: <hyperair> $ perl <hyperair> system("notify-send","title","body\nbody\n"); <hyperair> but the newlines were ignored <hyperair> SiDi: what version of notify-osd? <SiDi> hm, 0.9.18 <SiDi> works same with the jaunty and trunk <SiDi> brb <hyperair> i'm using 0.9.23 <hyperair> and this is behaviour i only noticed recently <hyperair> geez can you all please follow/update the wikipage when things are changed? <hyperair> this is so annoying <mac_v> hyperair: there seems to be a bug , it seems to ignore "\" <hyperair> that's another matter entirely <hyperair> i'm talking about \n <hyperair> as in U+000D <hyperair> or was it 0A <mac_v> hyperair: yeah ,since its ignoring '\' , i think the problem is being caused <mac_v> but anyways ;) <mac_v> both \r or \n is not working here for me now <hyperair> \ is another character entirely! <hyperair> it's not passed to notify-osd as a literal \ <mac_v> i understand that... but saying :) * hyperair sighs <hyperair> bah whatever * hyperair begins chanting some gibberish in an attempt to summon macslow <hyperair> +and earning weird looks from others in the same room as i am <hyperair> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/402247 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 402247 in notify-osd "Carriage returns in bubble title should be converted to a single space" [Medium,Fix released] <hyperair> ...what is the big idea?! * hyperair curses repeatedly <hyperair> it's fine if you're going to remove actions, or even formatting, but for the love of god leave my newlines alone!! <hyperair> $%^&*() <hyperair> MacSlow: aha you're here! <hyperair> or are you? <MacSlow> hyperair, I am but in a phone-conf at a dev-sprint <hyperair> MacSlow: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/402247 <hyperair> ah. i see <ubot4> Launchpad bug 402247 in notify-osd "Carriage returns in bubble title should be converted to a single space" [Medium,Fix released] <hyperair> well take your time. basically i'd like to talk to you about that <MacSlow> hyperair, if there's something... email better <hyperair> i did post my concerns on that bug report. <hyperair> please take a look when you have time <Laney> wiggle <Laney> MacSlow: Are you around to look at a dbus log of org.fd.notifications? Some images that Banshee is trying to display aren't shown <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/dbus.log <MacSlow> Laney, in meetings at a dev-sprint... not really here <Laney> it's alright, we are async <Laney> you can reply when you get time <hyperair> MacSlow: re what Laney said, further testing appears to show that notify-osd rejects all non-square icons. is that supposed to happen? <hyperair> specifically the {icon,image}_data icons. the ones passed by path appear to work. <MacSlow> hyperair, no... I can pass a non-square icon... and see it being displayed <hyperair> MacSlow: via notify-send? <MacSlow> yup... works just fine here <hyperair> MacSlow: the ones passed via the app_icon string as mentioned here: http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/0.9/x408.html#command-notify work fine <hyperair> MacSlow: the ones i'm talking about are those taht are passed as a byte array <hyperair> notify-send passes it via the app_icon string <hyperair> take out dbus-monitor and watch it <MacSlow> hyperair, no time to jump into debugging yet... please file a bug with a detailed description showing how to reproduce this. <hyperair> alright <hyperair> wait <hyperair> i have no idea how to reproduce this <hyperair> i mean there's no way you can reproduce this using notify-send, at least #ayatana 2009-10-06 * hyperair wonders if MacSlow is free to talk about notify-osd's newline-to-space behaviour <MacSlow> hyperair, you're refereing to the issue with banshee?! <hyperair> there were multiple issues =\ <hyperair> which issue are you thinking about? <MacSlow> hyperair, apart from the newline-to-space fixing bugs... I only know about the regression with notifications coming from banshee (assuming formatting is preserved) <hyperair> heh? <hyperair> formatting preserved? <hyperair> i thought notify-osd's supposed to drop all formatting and keep the newlines <MacSlow> "The body should be 0.9 Ã the standard application font size, of color #eaeaea, standard weight, and should not contain any extra formatting." <hyperair> at least, so says the wiki page <MacSlow> newline is also part of formatting <hyperair> Body text <hyperair> The body should be 0.9 Ã the standard application font size, of color #eaeaea, standard weight, and should not contain any extra formatting. <hyperair> In the body text, any string of one or more consecutive whitespace characters that contains at least one newline (U+000D CARRIAGE RETURN (CR), U+000A LINE FEED (LF), or U+000D CARRIAGE RETURN (CR) immediately followed by U+000A LINE FEED (LF)), even if a mixture of those, should be treated as a single newline. Then for each line in the text, any string of one or more consecutive (non-newline) whitespace characters, even if a mixture of them, sh <hyperair> snippet from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD <MacSlow> yeah, yeah... I'm getting to that... part of the need for the newline-to-space fix, is that I cannot calculate the size of the layout on a per-line-basis <hyperair> eh? <hyperair> what's wrong with the size calculation? <hyperair> notification-daemon does it just fine, doesn't it? just lift some code from there to figure out the size? <MacSlow> and since notify-osd needs to enforce a 10-line limit to avoid infintely growing bubbles... <hyperair> then keep the limit <hyperair> i only want my one newline character <hyperair> and as i quoted above, the wiki page specified that the newlines shouldn't be removed, but rather consecutive ones squashed into a single newline. <hyperair> unless you're supposed to make these changes without any consideration for what the original spec says? <MacSlow> hyperair, no <hyperair> no? <MacSlow> hyperair, no as in... of course I don't want to diverge from the spec <MacSlow> briefly forgot about the dedicated section about the newline-handling <hyperair> so the behaviour will be reverted then? <MacSlow> hyperair, if that would be the only bug to fix <MacSlow> when I can figure out how to get the line-limits correctly enforced <hyperair> okay then <MacSlow> hyperair, fixed <hyperair> thanks <MacSlow> hyperair, do you happen to have the bug-number to the banshee bug handy? <hyperair> there isn't one, regarding the newline-to-space issue. <hyperair> at least, not that i know of <hyperair> regarding the one with non-square album-art, i filed it against notify-osd <hyperair> MacSlow: looks like you assigned it to yourself already.. bug #443979 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 443979 in notify-osd "Notify OSD ignores Banshee's non-square album art" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443979 <MacSlow> hyperair, that's different... I'm not sure what's causing this... non-square passed via icon_data fails while passed as normal filename does not <hyperair> mmhmm <hyperair> well other than that bug, i don't think there are any more filed regarding banshee and notifications <djsiegel> DanRabbit1: ping <DanRabbit1> pong <djsiegel> DanRabbit1 mac_v: hopefully they can "indicator-system-shutdown" <djsiegel> DanRabbit1: think you can try the elementary shutdown icon there, and send me a screenshot? <DanRabbit1> where? <djsiegel> FUSA, when it is disconnected (no IM client running) <DanRabbit1> I'm on jaunty <DanRabbit1> will that matter? <djsiegel> I do not think so <DanRabbit1> mmkay hold on <djsiegel> what does your FUSA icon look like? <djsiegel> when disconnected? <DanRabbit1> I don't know, hold on :) <DanRabbit> djsiegel: it's kind of ugly right now <DanRabbit> because it's using a 16px icon, and there doesn't exist a 16px icon ;) <DanRabbit> djsiegel: http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Screenshot.png <djsiegel> ahhh <djsiegel> DanRabbit: you're killing me with this not-running-karmic business :) <DanRabbit> Karmic is killing me with it's not-supporting-Intel-graphics-cards business :) <DanRabbit> Unless you wanna buy me a swanky new computer, I'm stuck on Jaunty for now ;) <djsiegel> DanRabbit: so, can you try making that power symbol stand along? <djsiegel> alone* <djsiegel> without the button around it? <djsiegel> just the circle with line intersecting at top? <DanRabbit> yea, I actually mocked something like that up before <DanRabbit> you want it monochrome like the other panel icons? <djsiegel> DanRabbit: yeah <djsiegel> there is some unicode char for that I thinkk #ayatana 2009-10-07 <DBO> MDC1, you here? <mac_v> ara: regarding... Bug #444548 , i dont understand. there are only 4 icons for volume. high , medium , low and mute , you can see the different icons in the usr/share/Humanity/status/24/ , the volume mute is very different from volume low. if there is some other problem it must be a bug in the volume applet <ubot4> Launchpad bug 444548 in humanity-icon-theme "Not having a muted icon for the volume applet causes confusion" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444548 <mac_v> i'm not sure the bug is in humanity but rather think its a bug in the volume applet <mdc_work> mac_v, seems to be working for me :) <mac_v> works for me too... but confused why the bug is filed in humanity <ara> mac_v, way to do reproduce it, turn the volume down completely, shows the muted icon, right click, unmute, and it is the same icon, but different stats <ara> s/stats/states <mac_v> ara: hmm... ok. so how do we fix this? new icon for the volume 0? i dont like how it was previously in human , [using volume low for volume 0] <mac_v> ara: could you check the last comment i wrote * ara checks <ara> mac_v, I commented the bug <ara> "I think the zero volume icon should be the same as low, but without the darken of the last trunk. That will make the difference between the two." <mac_v> ara: yeah , i was thinking the same too <mdc_work> DBO, now i am (but at work) <DBO> ah I was wondering if you know where in the nautilus codebase the icons on the sidebar for mounted volumes are created <DBO> mmm just asking makes me find it <DBO> nevermind <mdc_work> hehe :) <DBO> hiiiiiiiiiiii MacSlow <MacSlow> DBO, hey Jason <MacSlow> DBO, just debugging the nasty dbus issue in notify-osd <MacSlow> DBO, thanks for the forkbomb-script... Neil gave it to me this morning <DBO> it was fun to write <DBO> I'll have you know I ran it first :P <MacSlow> :) <DBO> I was thinking about how to solve this issue however <DBO> it really does come down to simply not giving dbus back what it wants in a timely manner, right? <DBO> so lets just dispatch all whatever work that was going to get done into an glib idle handler, and return to dbus what it wants pretty much right away <DBO> this should prevent notify OSD from ever ever ever being slow with the response <DBO> also, neil is smelly <DBO> Neil, what do you think of dispatching all the work notify-osd is going to do on incoming dbus calls into a glib idle handlers, and then freeing ourselves up to reply to dbus immediately? <DBO> mmm I think I have been too obtuse <MacSlow> DBO, Neil is busy atm talking with Jay and David <DBO> so MacSlow, what do you think of dispatching the handling of incoming calls <MacSlow> DBO, it makes sense <MacSlow> I cannot see what possible side-effects that might have <DBO> well there is one easy way to find out <MacSlow> doing it of course :I <MacSlow> :) <DBO> but the quickest one I can think of is that hammering notify osd with that script will result in starving out all notifications (most likely) <MacSlow> just ramirezanna@example.org:564 <DBO> it be nice if that method were shorter <DBO> just moe all the non-dbus stuff into another method <MacSlow> I'm on it <DBO> also <DBO> there is a condition where you return true AND set error <DBO> this is incorrect <DBO> that should return false I believe <MacSlow> some people more familiar with DBus advised me to do that <MacSlow> the reason behind that I cannot recall atm <DBO> really? <DBO> okay, I will trust, the spec sheet says not to though *makes note* <DBO> probably should add a comment in there to that effect <MacSlow> DBO, it has to always return true <MacSlow> just asked ted <DBO> why does the dbus specification say to return false if you set an error? <DBO> ted isn't here is he? <MacSlow> tedg, he is * DBO pokes tedg <tedg> Heh, it should probably return FALSE, but I thought there was a bug. <tedg> I mean, it'd be better to return false, but I doubt that's the issue. <DBO> ok <DBO> i suspect somewhere we have a poorly performing or IO bound thing happening between dbus call received and dbus call returned <DBO> and this is causing the hangups <DBO> DanRabbit, <DanRabbit> hey! <DBO> you desire to pull latest Docky 2.0, it contains a mounted volumes plugin <DanRabbit> I've been having trouble compiling <DanRabbit> unresolved dependencies <DBO> well give me the error <DanRabbit> I'm just missing some packages <DanRabbit> I have to not be lazy and go hunt them down <DanRabbit> but, check these out: http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Docky2/Docky_alt2.svg and http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Docky2/Docky.svg <DanRabbit> And PsyberS liked this one, http://www.elementary-project.com/abuse/Docky2/Docky_alt.svg <DanRabbit> DBO: hey, I'm totally late for school <DanRabbit> so, I'll catch you later ;) <DBO> looking <DBO> later <DBO> oh man those are awesome <DanRabbit> let me know if you like any of those and then I can do all sizes <DBO> I love the white anchor <DanRabbit> DBO: btw, I'm starting on monochrome panel icons in elementary * DBO gets ready to switch back <DanRabbit> you should pull bzr, I've got the wireless <DBO> awesome <DanRabbit> next is volume :D <DanRabbit> okay really g2g <DanRabbit> bye :D <DBO> awesome <DBO> love you babe <DBO> DanRabbit, go to school <djsiegel> mac_v DanRabbit lool, did Humanity get the U1 icons? <mac_v> djsiegel: yup <DBO> djsiegel, did you see the new Docky icon mockup? <djsiegel> DBO, no, can I see later? Pretty busy now. <DBO> roger <lool> djsiegel: You dont run karmic? <mac_v> lool: djsiegel at times doesnt even run Ubuntu ;p <lool> mac_v: haha <lool> mac_v: I'll be away in the next days; do you have upload contacts for humanity-icon-theme while I'm abroad? <lool> mac_v: I'd recommend chatting with pitti if you need to get any update; he's desktop team tech lead and release manager and aware of the humanity status <djsiegel> lool mac_v, that is so unfair <lool> mac_v: If you like we can do a status summary when I come back (Monday) <djsiegel> I have been an ubuntu user since it came out, and was running Karmic until last night when dist-upgrade made X crash on every login, returning me to GDM! <djsiegel> so there! <mac_v> djsiegel: ;p <djsiegel> But, yes, I am on snow leopard until I sort out Karmic... <mac_v> lool: i think we can do the next update on monday , or if needed i can as pitti , but do mention it to him also <djsiegel> But don't you want your designers exposed to other OSes? <djsiegel> ;) * mac_v hates djsiegel getting ideas from OSX :/ <djsiegel> mac_v: I hope that means you're not a GNOME Do user :) <djsiegel> anyway, ideas don't materialize out of nothing unfortunately <mac_v> ;) <djsiegel> it's incredibly frustrating when people want you to design something, but somehow not be influenced by past work <djsiegel> it's the exact opposite expectation of open source, where you are free and encouraged to build on past work of others <mac_v> djsiegel: lol , calm down :) * mac_v was just kidding <djsiegel> I am calm :) <DBO> chaotic, when you got a chance can I borrow you for some quick feedback? <jcastro> tedg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep <jcastro> you cannot escape me ted gould <mrooney|w> oh yeah, I was trying to figure out something to give a talk on last night! <mrooney|w> but most things I could think of seem more appropriate for a developer week <jcastro> heh <mrooney|w> open week is specifically aimed at non-developers right? <jcastro> yeah <jcastro> but you can have a bit of stuff in there <tedg> jcastro: I can't, but the wireless in Montreal can! <DBO> tedg, its all the moose, they chew on the wifi signals <tedg> DBO: It's the Tim Horton doughnuts, they make to me too slow to catch the packets! <DBO> also, moose antlers, when in high enough concentration act like a Faraday cage <mrooney|w> hm, there isn't anyone talking about getting started with bug triaging...I wonder if that would be useful <djsiegel> mac_v: ping <djsiegel> mac_v: You should be working on a non-trunk branch of humanity moving forward, not with an Incoming folder in the trunk branch :) <mac_v> djsiegel: bah... i think we wont be doing anymore icons.. it was just created more for jonian.. he kept adding too many icons :) he is a machine <djsiegel> mac_v: ah, ok <djsiegel> mac_v: please just use branches <DBO> how many people are working on icons? <mac_v> 3 <DBO> erm <DBO> humanity <djsiegel> we should be working off of a karmic branch of humanity and only do changes based on UIF approved bugs <djsiegel> since we're working off of trunk, more work is going on that isn't being carefully reviewed, and it becomes hard to figure out which revisions are blessed <mac_v> djsiegel: dont worry , i dont expect any more icons ;) they are almost all done more than what human theme ever had and nearly equal to gnome <djsiegel> mac_v: awesome work <mac_v> djsiegel: the funny thing was we just zoomed since you said Ubuntu was using humanity and did nearly 160 revs.. that really made lool dizzy ;p <mac_v> most of the revs were minor color edits .. some icons got 4-5 edits untill all 3 of us agreed upon using it ;) <jcastro> djsiegel: want to do an openweek topic? <djsiegel> jcastro: sure <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep <jcastro> pick a slot and roll with it! <jcastro> tedg: see how cooperative djsiegel is? He embraces working with the community <tedg> jcastro: I'm not into your and djsiegel's man-love fest ;) <djsiegel> albeit begrudgingly <jcastro> someday I'll get you gould! *shakes fist* <djsiegel> mac_v DanRabbit1, I have to agree that the antenna symbol in the nm-applet should go away... :) <djsiegel> not now, of course <mac_v> djsiegel: why so? <djsiegel> because it's not a meaningful symbol to most people <mac_v> djsiegel: the fedora guys have had a look at the icons and they have been saying its the way to go <mac_v> djsiegel: the same icon is used in cell phones too ;) <djsiegel> mac_v: Please don't say "the fedora guys said" when we are talking about Ubuntu's default icons <djsiegel> :) <djsiegel> each indicator should be a basic shape with some detail <djsiegel> a cohesive whole <mac_v> djsiegel: well , i didnt actually talk to the fedora guys , but the asac was telling me this ;) <mac_v> but asac* <djsiegel> this little symbol off to the side feels like a piece has broken off <djsiegel> if we needed that symbol for some reason, I would put it in the middle of the signal bars, over them <djsiegel> (as-is, that would not work, but you get the idea) <Laney> how can I start notify-osd in debug mode? <Laney> nm <DBO> DanRabbit1, you here? <lamalex> djsiegel: what are the nicks of your collegues who can give me some design review help? Do they come in here ever? <djsiegel> lamalex: chaotic, ivanka, mpt, mt, kwwii, djsiegel <lamalex> djsiegel: thanks :) <djsiegel> lamalex: np #ayatana 2009-10-08 <DanRabbit1> DBO: pong <DBO> *finally* <DBO> I choose the first icon you made <DBO> with the white <DBO> also <DBO> there is now a removable devices plugin for docky <DBO> its beautiful <DanRabbit1> yay <DanRabbit1> okay, I'll not be lazy and resolve my dependency issues so I can use it :D <DBO> also <DBO> docky devel happens in #docky now <DanRabbit1> cool, I'll idle there now too :D <mrooney|w> jcastro: around? <dashua> twf <dashua> =/ #ayatana 2009-10-09 <chaotic> DBO: did you want to run something by me? <magcius> mac_v, you around? <magcius> err <magcius> MacSlow, you around? <MacSlow> magcius, yes and no... busy testing GL stuff on some ATI GPUs <MacSlow> magcius, email is the option :) <magcius> First of all. will the 100 papercuts contribute back to the upstream projects or is it just a downstream patch? #ayatana 2009-10-12 <magcius> Is Cody in here <magcius> ? <tedg> magcius: Cody who? <magcius> Not sure. <magcius> There was some Canonical employee today at the GNOME summit whose name I thought was "Cody" <magcius> He's on the desktop experience team. <magcius> Implemented xsplash. <tedg> magcius: Ah, okay. THAT Cody :) His nick is bratsche -- but he's probably at the beer summit right now :) <magcius> ah, okay. <tedg> There are actually a couple of Cody's. <tedg> magcius: Can I answer a quick question for you? <magcius> tedg, sure. <magcius> tedg, ehh... well, no. <magcius> tedg, are you a Canonical employee? <magcius> tedg, and were you at the Summit today? <tedg> magcius: Yes, but that doesn't preclude me from knowing about xsplash ;) <tedg> Yes, I was. <magcius> tedg, hm, i thought Cody was the only Canonical employee there. <tedg> magcius: I was hiding among the bushes. <magcius> tedg, I assume you weren't there when Cody and I were talking. <tedg> magcius: Probably not. <magcius> tedg, who at Canonical did Upstart? <tedg> magcius: Keybuk <magcius> Cody said Upstart was first introduced in Karmic, but http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ says it was first used in 6.10 <tedg> magcius: Yeah, the big change is that upstart was being used previously more in a SysVInit emulation mode. <tedg> magcius: Karmic is when it was really "turned on" <magcius> tedg, will Fedora get the same change? <tedg> magcius: That is up to the Fedora devs. It's open source. <tedg> magcius: Traditionally they've adopted a "Canonical doesn't do upstream" stance, so it seems they don't like including our projects ;-/ <tedg> magcius: It's good for users, hopefully they'll include it. <magcius> The upstart page says that it has been used since Fedora 9. <magcius> So I assume it's just in SysV init emu mode. <tedg> Oh, really? I didn't realize that. Very cool. <tedg> magcius: bratsche will be at the summit tomorrow if you want to catch him. I will not. * hyperair notes that all sabdfl's emails appear to have bad signatures. <hyperair> why is that, i wonder? <LaserJock> quick question, is there any way to adjust the behavior of indicator-applet-session in terms of when it automatically changes your status, like after a resume for instance? <tedg1> LaserJock: There's no code in it for anything like that. I doesn't know about after resume really. (I mean, it sent the signal, but doesn't really register when you come back) <tedg1> LaserJock: What were you thinking? <LaserJock> I've just noticed that when I set it to "Away", when I come back it automatically sets me as "Available" <LaserJock> my general workflow is that I set the status manually and not really based on anything the computer is doing <tedg1> LaserJock: Hmm, I don' think thats the session menu doing that. It's probably getting the event from someone else. <LaserJock> I see <LaserJock> let's see, I did switch to Empathy <LaserJock> it probably started doing it around that time <LaserJock> would empathy be doing something like that? <LaserJock> empathy doesn't seem to have any options regarding such behavior at least <tedg1> LaserJock: Probably more likely the individual account managers would be doing it. <tedg1> LaserJock: Both Empathy and the Session Menu pull in their information. It's possible for them to all have different statuses :-/ <LaserJock> tedg: what's an account manager? <LaserJock> tedg: do you mean like individual accounts in empathy? <LaserJock> I tried setting myself as away in both indicator-applet-session and empathy and neither stuck <tedg> LaserJock: So the way that Telepathy works is that each protocol has it's own process that manages things for that protocol. I'm guessing one of those is doing it. If one of those comes bad "Available" then both Emapthy and Indicator Session will report Available because it's the most available of any of the statuses. <LaserJock> tedg: so there's more-or-less no way of changing that behavior <LaserJock> tedg: the process manager would have to sprout a UI <tedg> LaserJock: Yeah, kinda. Probably the best solution is to have indicator-session grow the ability to understand "after suspend" and then force everyone to agree. But, that's definitely not Karmic timeframe stuff. <LaserJock> tedg: well, it's not just suspend that does it <LaserJock> things like unlocking from the screensaver does it <LaserJock> and seemingly after I leave it for a while, but I haven't nailed that down yet exactly <LaserJock> I just find that I can't keep the bugger "Away" :-) <tedg> LaserJock: Hmm, I'd guess that locking the screensaver goes to "Away" and then it changes back when you unlock. But it shouldn't change back if you were "Away." I'm guessing that one is an Empathy bug. <LaserJock> is there any difference between Away and Busy? #ayatana 2009-10-13 <_ke> what should i do, if i want to update a notify-osd bubble, but remove the icon? i tried to set notify.Icon = null; but this crashes <_ke> jcastro, heya! <_ke> mat_t, hey <_ke> what should i do, if i want to update a notify-osd bubble, but remove the icon? i tried to set notify.Icon = null; but this crashes #ayatana 2009-10-14 * MacSlow -> lunch <mac_v> MacSlow: hi... you mentioned long back that there would be gconf for setting the color of the bubble background or the size of the text in Karmic... did those options make it? <MacSlow> mac_v, not yet in trunk <MacSlow> mac_v, but trying hard to get them into this weeks realease <mac_v> MacSlow: great :) thanks <mccann> hi tedg <tedg> Good afternoon mccann <mccann> i'm not sure if you still work on inkscape stuff or not but do you have any thoughts on https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/406578?comments=all ? <ubot4> Launchpad bug 406578 in inkscape "use correct Name and GenericName in desktop file" [Undecided,New] <mccann> I'm not even sure I posted the bug to the right place <tedg> mccann: Looks good to me. <tedg> We're in a string freeze... I'll post it to devel. <mccann> oh i should update that with the Fullname thing too... doing now <tedg> Long story about how I can't get mail for Inkscape bugs, for some reason Evolution won't see that IMAP folder... <mccann> ok i've updated the bug now <tedg> mccann: Cool, sent mail to -devel. #ayatana 2009-10-15 * MacSlow -> lunch <DBO> ping davidbarth <DBO> ping mac_v <DBO> you here still? <mac_v> hey <DBO> mac_v, pm <davidbarth> DBO: pong (but going to hop on another call) <davidbarth> DBO: sorry for the missed on earlier; rescheduling with you and neil later <davidbarth> (but not today) <DBO> davidbarth, roger <DBO> sounds good <mdc_laptop> mac_v, pingiping <mdc_laptop> mac_v (or anyone else), know why the pidgin buddy window is visible in the taskbar on all workspaces <mdc_laptop> i find that very annoying... <mac_v> mdc_laptop: hey... nope , i dont know ;) <natewiebe13> mac_v: do you help out with dev for humanity icons? <natewiebe13> anyone here work on the humanity icons? <mac_v> natewiebe13: what's up? you could always check the members from the elementary art team to know who's there ;) <natewiebe13> mac_v, DanRabbit: the failing disk icon in the panel, is that going to be created? im prutty sure that it doesnt show up anywhere else <DanRabbit> never seen it before :) <DanRabbit> do you know what the icons actual name is, or can you point to it in a different theme? <mac_v> natewiebe13: we wont be doing app specific icons. so that icon needs to be provided by the palimpsest <natewiebe13> okay.. that answers my question <mac_v> DanRabbit: thats shows up when the disk has bad sectors.. if you dont see it your safe ;) <mac_v> you're* <natewiebe13> hmm.. cant seem to find the icon <natewiebe13> my guess it would be in hicolor because it stays the same for each icon theme <mac_v> natewiebe13: it will be in the /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/gdu-warning.png <natewiebe13> found it.. gduwarning <natewiebe13> yeah <natewiebe13> thanks #ayatana 2009-10-16 * MacSlow -> lunch <gabaug> hey guys, I'm working on a new extension for Banshee to integrate with archive.org's awesome collection, and I'd be interested in UI design/UX feedback <gabaug> the source is here: http://gitorious.org/banshee/mainline/commits/archive.org if you want to check it out and run it - it's already functional <lamalex> gabaug: got a screenshot? <gabaug> alternatively, here are some sshots: http://banshee-project.org/~gburt/tmp/banshee-ia1.png http://banshee-project.org/~gburt/tmp/banshee-ia2.png http://banshee-project.org/~gburt/tmp/banshee-ia3.png <lamalex> :) <gabaug> I am considering changing the top-level source to be a jumping off point - big buttons to open a new search source for Audiobooks, Education, Movies, Concerts, and Books <gabaug> a big search bar, maybe some intro-to-Internet Archive text, etc <lamalex> the side by side panes are weird, i would do over under I think, or all in one pane <gabaug> you mean the details/reviews pane next to the file list you think is weird? <lamalex> yeah <gabaug> they're both very tall in most cases (some items do only have one or two files though) <gabaug> if you had them stacked vertically, you wouldn't be able to see nearly as much content, and having the file list that wide would be pointless since there is limited information it contains <gabaug> don't you think? <lamalex> I find it really distracting to try and read pane 1 with pane2 next to it with very different font, spacing, etc <gabaug> yeah, I can see that <mac_v> hyperair: ^ <hyperair> why hello gabaug <hyperair> and hello mac_v <hyperair> gabaug: the middle pane for ia2 seems a little bland <hyperair> how abotu making the titles a different colour? #ayatana 2009-10-17 <gabaug> http://banshee-project.org/~gburt/tmp/banshee-ia4.png <gabaug> lamalex: ^ <lamalex> gabaug: are the children of Internet Archive things youve downloaded? <DBO> us Gordon Allott in here? #ayatana 2009-10-20 * MacSlow -> lunch #ayatana 2009-10-21 * MacSlow -> lunch * hyperair notes a lot of activity on the ayatana list recently <djsiegel1> mccann: hey <djsiegel1> mccann: can you tell me a bit about the cosmos backgrounds slideshow? <mccann> hi. such as? <djsiegel1> mccann: is there a way to add more slideshows? how does the xml description work? why does the slideshow begin at midnight? <mccann> i don't think there are any docs at the moment <mccann> we may do something different for next cycle so <djsiegel1> mccann: ok <mccann> probably best to ask around in gnome-hackers <djsiegel1> I copied the xml and created a new one <djsiegel1> seemed to work <djsiegel1> but the animation didn't seem to really kickoff <mccann> what are you trying to do with it? <djsiegel1> just trying to make a new background set that shows each image for a few minutes, then transitions to the next <djsiegel1> I am guessing the animation times are in seconds? <djsiegel1> I got the new deck of images to show up in the backgrounds prefs <djsiegel1> but they don't seem to playback as a slideshow once I set them as my desktop <djsiegel1> mccann: I think, in the end, we should do a separate backgrounds preference, and call the current one "advanced appearance prefs" or something <djsiegel1> make backgrounds more prominent than themes, desktop effects, fonts, icon placement, etc <mccann> i have some plans in this area too <djsiegel1> oh let me show you another cool thing <mccann> it would be nice if you guys want to work upstream on this next release cycle <mccann> though I know you aren't supposed to ;) <djsiegel1> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=599174 <ubot4> Gnome bug 599174 in Archives "Split accounts dialog to its own app" [Enhancement,New] <mccann> yeah we talked about that at Summit <mccann> this is part of the work for gnome shell <djsiegel1> oh yeah? any concrete plans? <djsiegel1> I see <djsiegel1> would be really awesome, then designers can really focus on that one configuration application <djsiegel1> and people who just want to work on empathy's chat features don't have to worry about it <mac_v> mccann: hi... i heard you plan or are thinking about implementing the -symbolic icons > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/433858/comments/3 any hopes of seeing that soon? :) <ubot4> mac_v: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out * mac_v kicks the bot! <mac_v> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/433858/comments/3 <ubot4> mac_v: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out <mac_v> djsiegel1: check out the wallpapoz app , it does the wallpaper timed switch as you expect <djsiegel1> mac_v, eww <mac_v> djsiegel1: link to the cosmos one you mentioned? #ayatana 2009-10-22 <mac_v> tedg: hi , do the xchat im bubbles append? or does it display as separate queued bubbles? <mac_v> they dont seem to append for me :( <tedg> mac_v: I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing they don't append. <tedg> I just uploaded my patch to make liferea append though :) <mac_v> ;) tedg link to branch? <tedg> I didn't branch it, they're still in SVN, but the patch is on the upstream bug: bug 457869 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 457869 in liferea "Liferea should support notify-osd's append feature" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457869 <mac_v> tedg: awesome thanks , .... is there a known bug , where the evolution new mail does not get indicated in the indicator applet? <mac_v> the icon doesnt change for the evo mail alone , but empathy new events trigger icon cange <mac_v> change* <tedg> mac_v: Uhm, I've heard people say that. But everytime it was that they didn't know that the icon didn't have a literal "green dot" on it :) <tedg> Do the indicators for the various inboxes have counts above zero in them? <mac_v> tedg: yup <mac_v> oh , no! <mac_v> the count stays zero! <tedg> It only represents mails that are "unviewed" not "unread" <mac_v> so it would be a evolution-indicator bug? <mac_v> tedg: yeah, the unviewed is always zero <tedg> Which I'm curious if we should change... <tedg> mac_v: If the unviewed is always zero, then that's an evolution-indicator bug. <tedg> (assuming of course that people mail you) ;) <mac_v> lol ;) * mac_v files an evolution-indicator bug <tedg> Okay, it's bed time. 'night folks! <agateau> ping agateau-test <agateau> sorry for the noise, preparing screenshots :) * MacSlow -> lunch <ScottK> davidbarth: If you or agateau have anything to add to the RC release notes, time is getting short. <davidbarth> ScottK: sorry, stuck in a debug session; we have a screenshot at least and i'll submit small paragraph now <ScottK> davidbarth: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/RC/Kubuntu <davidbarth> ScottK: can i contribute some content to mention the notifications into the paragraph? <ScottK> davidbarth: I'd make new paragraph for that. <ScottK> davidbarth: How about right after the messaging indicator paragraph? <davidbarth> ScottK: doing that, by email <ScottK> davidbarth: We're short on time. It's a wiki, so please just add it in. <ScottK> I'll give it a quit edit pass when you're done. <davidbarth> ScottK: ok <davidbarth> ScottK: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/RC/Kubuntu?action=diff&rev2=53&rev1=52 <ScottK> Thanks. Looking <davidbarth> ScottK: feel free to fine tune that with the rest of the notes (or tone down the Ayatana praises ;) #ayatana 2009-10-23 * MacSlow -> errand <davidbarth> DBO: ping? <DBO> davidbarth, pong <DBO> ah 14
{'channel': 'ayatana', 'month': 10}