#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-01-02 <Alpha_Cluster> hello all <Takyoji__> Hello <Takyoji__> Been a while since you've been on #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-01-03 <Takyoji__> Anyone know the difference between TeX and LaTeX? <AlphaCluster> there really isnt anymore <AlphaCluster> LaTeX is just the modern version of TeX really <Takyoji__> ahh <AlphaCluster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeX <Takyoji__> Anyone know of a simple MTU optimizer tool for Windowz? <Alpha_Cluster> MTU? <Takyoji__> Maximum Transmission Unit <Takyoji__> It's something you rarely have to deal with. <Takyoji__> It's how big a packet can be. <Alpha_Cluster> ahh <Alpha_Cluster> ive never messed with networking stuff in windows >.< <Takyoji__> If the packets are too big for the network to handle, each packet gets split, and thus decreases the performance <Alpha_Cluster> i understand that <Takyoji__> I think you only really deal with it with dial-up or GPRS connections or something <Takyoji__> and when you don't have a router or something that can't automatically just detect the MTU from the device before it. <Alpha_Cluster> yeah <Takyoji__> There's "FINALLY FAST!" that basically just changes the MTU value; but very misadvertised and almost scandalistic and bloated in a way <Alpha_Cluster> lol <Takyoji__> It's commercial that has a Mac BSoDing. :P <Alpha_Cluster> yeah iknow <Alpha_Cluster> i actually found a good blog post awhile back about the registery hacks it does <Takyoji__> I'd be curious of reading such. <Takyoji__> The company also has a terrible rating on Web of Trust for any of their products. <Alpha_Cluster> lol <Takyoji__> Someone was just asking me if the product was fine (few minutes ago) <Alpha_Cluster> i hope you game them the warning its more damaging then good? <Alpha_Cluster> omg i HATE this router!!! <Takyoji__> Pretty much <Alpha_Cluster> http://alphacluster.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/finallyfast-actually-shown-to-do-nothing/ <Takyoji__> Tweak your link on the page, as it goes down to the comments part of the page (just remove anything after the ampersand) <Alpha_Cluster> oh thanks whoops its been like that sense February >.< <Alpha_Cluster> fixed :) and thanks again :) #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-01-04 <mr_steve> Howdy fellas <_diablo> 'lo <mr_steve> How's it going? <_diablo> not too bad <mr_steve> Good good <_diablo> I'm not sure if I really belong on here seeing as I'm a fedora user, I'm currently in michigan, and I only attended one meeting <_diablo> but I lurk <_diablo> :) <_diablo> I'll be back in the cities soo <mr_steve> Heh, why not. It's fun <_diablo> exactly <mr_steve> I haven't been in here much lately, very busy. Starting school next week already <_diablo> ah, where? <mr_steve> Minneapolis Community & Technical College <_diablo> ah, nice <_diablo> do you know tom ferguson by chance? <mr_steve> Nope, don't think so <_diablo> ah, well he's the only one I know there <mr_steve> Yeah I haven't met anyone there yet. I've only been up there a few times to register and deal with administraiva <_diablo> ah, just starting? studying cs I assume? <mr_steve> Computer support & network admin <mr_steve> At least I well be; I bombed the math test so I have a semester of generals to get through first <_diablo> ouch. I'm thinking of looking for network admin jobx <_diablo> *jobs <_diablo> but I don't really have any experience lol <mr_steve> I've got about 5-6 yrs experience in support & admin, but in this economy it's worthless without the degree <_diablo> yeah, fair enough <_diablo> I'm looking to get linux+ certified <_diablo> I'm doing a book thing <mr_steve> Yeah I'm thinking about that too. I want to pick up a few certs while I'm still in school, since alot of the electives are certificate prep classes <mr_steve> If I gotta take the class, might as well get the cert when I'm done <_diablo> exactly <_diablo> no real reason not to do so <Takyoji__> I looked at Linux+ and it doesn't really seem to be much at all <Takyoji__> LPI certification looks much better <Takyoji__> Linux+ is just like the basics of Linux; nothing deep at all <Takyoji__> File permissions, using the package manager, etc <_diablo> ah, well, the book is for LPI 1 and Linux+ <_diablo> or should I be aiming for more than that <Takyoji__> ahh <zomGreg> hi guys <Takyoji__> It should give detail on each level of LPI certification: http://www.lpi.org/eng/certification <_diablo> zomGreg, hey <zomGreg> I just read about this group somewhere on the intarnets and I'm wondering how active it is? <_diablo> Takyoji__, is lpi1 even worth it? <Takyoji__> http://www.lpi.org/eng/certification/the_lpic_program/lpic_1/exam_101_sample_questions <_diablo> zomGreg, seems pretty active ;) <Takyoji__> Seems to be general basics, just learning some commands that you might not use much as a desktop user I assume <_diablo> Takyoji__, wow. that is super basic <_diablo> what kind of level would I need to be a network admin? <_diablo> Takyoji__, http://www.lpi.org/eng/certification/the_lpic_program/lpic_1/exam_102_sample_questions <_diablo> seems to be a little bit more difficult, although still fairly basic <Takyoji__> At the same time, I haven't taken any LPI certification yet <Takyoji__> I believe tonyyarusso has <zomGreg> the debate is ages old. education vs. experience. Spending time in one seems to mean less of the other. <zomGreg> there was a good article in Linux Journal about certs vs. experience. <Takyoji__> Yea, I remember reading of it <mr_steve> I find it comes down to roughly this: Experience is what you need to do the job, certs/degrees are what you need to get the job. <Takyoji__> What REALLY annoys me is when people take no initiative to learn themself to some extent. Rather than just "oh, I'll take a class in college" <mr_steve> Yeah. My dad somehow graduated from Brown with a degree in comp. support & net admin, plus a few certs, and he has no clue at all about computers <Takyoji__> If someone wants to game development, well hey, you can actually LEARN programming and other various concepts, rather than just waiting until college for to take some class <zomGreg> nothing like trying and failing and taking good notes for an education. <mr_steve> I just run a needlessly complex home network to keep some of my skills sharp while I'm out of work :) <Takyoji__> Too bad I don't have any enterprise-level hardware at home to toy with. :P <Takyoji__> I don't think I've even touched a system yet that uses a RAID array for storage. xP <Takyoji__> Aside from a SAN I've found.. <Takyoji__> (which I believe has a Windows-only client... ) <mr_steve> That's my problem too. Although I do have an emulator/workbench type program for playing with emulated Cisco gear <mr_steve> And I helped a buddy of mine build a Raid-5 with the Linux md-tools <mr_steve> 2.5TB, I'm jealous <Takyoji__> heh <zomGreg> nice work! <mr_steve> Btw I've just remembered the Cisco IOS workbench I was using is called gns3, if anyone's interested. It's a little quirky but it's in the Ubuntu repo. <mr_steve> Getting a hold of IOS images to play with is left as an excercise for the reader.. <tonyyarusso> haha <tonyyarusso> There's also the Cisco emulator doohickey that's not too bad. <tonyyarusso> PacketTracer I think it was. <mr_steve> I think I might have heard of that one too, never tried it though <mr_steve> I should be brushing up more on my IOS... I used to pretty much break every device I was dumb enough to connect a console cable to <mr_steve> I've gotten better tho ;) * tonyyarusso high-fives mr_steve for "needlessly complex home network" - me too! <mr_steve> I have a primary & secondary nameserver! For no reason besides that I can! woohoo <tonyyarusso> Okay, now that is bad. <Takyoji__> Isn't that the common procedure? :P <tonyyarusso> I've started setting up my first nameserver. <mr_steve> I cheated, I'm using Webmin <tonyyarusso> Boooooohissssss <mr_steve> heheh * tonyyarusso snuggles his local Ubuntu repo though <mr_steve> Bind is still a little intimidating for me <tonyyarusso> Bind is weird-looking, but not actually complicated. <tonyyarusso> (I set it up to spoof DNS for *.archive.ubuntu.com at the last installfest so people didn't have to change their sources to use the local copy) <mr_steve> Nifty. I'm still thinking of setting up my own repo here, I've got 5 Ubuntu machines, it seems wasteful to me to have them all hitting the mirrors for updates <tonyyarusso> Oh hey everybody, y'all should brainstorm a topic or two for tomorrow's meeting and put them together on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam/MeetingAgenda <mr_steve> I'll think on it <mr_steve> I had forgotten all about the meeting until about 15 minutes ago <jenkinbr> yay, meeting tomorrow :) <jenkinbr> I actually remembered :) <mr_steve> Yeah it just popped into my head a little while ago so I sent a message out to the list, since I hadn't heard anyone talking about it yet <_diablo> this is 7:30 pm central time right? (first time) <mr_steve> 7:00PM I think <mr_steve> That's what we did last time, anyway <tonyyarusso> Yes, 7:00 was the plan. <_diablo> this is the december 20 meeting? <_diablo> the website is a little off :) <tonyyarusso> Just fixed that :) <_diablo> gotcah <tonyyarusso> Seems the last time we used the wiki for an agenda was a year ago <_diablo> s/gotcah/gotcha <_diablo> lol <zomGreg> so is the Dec 20th agenda what is currently planned for tomorrow? <tonyyarusso> no <tonyyarusso> Refresheth the page <zomGreg> k <tonyyarusso> Then fill in the blanks :) <mr_steve> Win/lose: i just figured out how to scale the CPU speed on my netbook.. and I've discovered I have a BIOS bug limiting my CPU to 1.33GHz <zomGreg> what's the max capability of the CPU? <mr_steve> 1.66 <zomGreg> not a brutal hit, but a hit nonetheless <mr_steve> Yeah, kinda obnoxious when I just bought it, and intentionally chose the one with the faster CPU <tonyyarusso> Which model is this? (And how are they getting away with something so dumb?) <mr_steve> It's the Acer Aspire One, AOD250 <mr_steve> There's an ubuntu bug about it, bug #422858 <ubot3`> Malone bug 422858 in cpufreqd "Atom N280 frequency scaling not supported" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/422858 <mr_steve> Heh I didn't know ubot would do that in this channel, neat <jenkinbr> Someone ping me if I am not active at 7 for the meeting :) <_diablo> kk <Takyoji__> ICMP ping? IRC ping? Or a private message? :P <jenkinbr> In channel :) <jenkinbr> pm's highlight, but I don't notice where they come from because my client doesn't put them in a new tab unless I tell it to, and I no longer am highlighted by notices. #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-01-05 <jenkinbr> :) <jenkinbr> 5 minutes :) <Alpha_Cluster> oh yeah its monday ant it * Takyoji__ hyperventilates in suspense <Alpha_Cluster> um why? <mr_steve> howdy folks <_diablo> hola <Alpha_Cluster> yo <_diablo> jenkinbr, ping ;) <jenkinbr> lol <jenkinbr> _diablo, pong :D <Alpha_Cluster> ther was a netsplit <_diablo> uh oh, will the meeting still be fine? <Alpha_Cluster> are we waiting for tonyh? <Alpha_Cluster> tony* <jenkinbr> probably <Guest2917> Meeting started, right? <jenkinbr> Guest2917, not yet <jenkinbr> should be soon though <Alpha_Cluster> whats on teh agenda for tonight? <Guest2917> For some reason, I cannot change my screen name here <zomGreg> hello <Alpha_Cluster> Guest2917: /nick doesnt work? <Guest2917> how do I change it? <Alpha_Cluster> btw nvm i found the very thurough agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam/MeetingAgenda <Alpha_Cluster> Guest2917: just type /nick <name> where <name> is the name you want <Guest2917> how? <Alpha_Cluster> just type it in <Alpha_Cluster> things with a / before them are interpreted as commands <Guest2917> 10snoopy1 <Guest2917> it doesn't work <Alpha_Cluster> what did you type? <Alpha_Cluster> put a spce in front so i can see it <_diablo> Guest2917, type '/nick newbletz' without quotes <Guest2917> .... this is what I typed: /nick 10snoopy1 <newbeltz> ok it worked there <_diablo> there you go newbeltz <_diablo> probably a misspelling <Alpha_Cluster> there you go <Snoopy1> :) I got it <Alpha_Cluster> now i call that a successful meeting <Alpha_Cluster> :) <zomGreg> an early victory <Snoopy> ok so we are talking about blueprints? <jenkinbr> Snoopy, numbers are invalid for starting characters of nicknames, unfortunatly <tonyyarusso> Hey everybody - sorry I'm late (was doing some businessy stuff. * tonyyarusso reads scrollback to see where we are <Alpha_Cluster> tonyyarusso: they decided to wait till you got here <tonyyarusso> Oh, spiffy. <tonyyarusso> Well, is everyone else ready to start then? <Alpha_Cluster> i am <tonyyarusso> I see we have a pretty short agenda so far - feel free to add to it if you have a last-minute idea. <Snoopy> Yes here we go! <zomGreg> yes <tonyyarusso> 1.) Welcome! <jenkinbr> yes <_diablo> thank you <tonyyarusso> Good to see it looks like we have a few folks here, some of which I think might be new faces (or new nicks). If you weren't at our last meeting, could you please give a brief introduction for yourself? <_diablo> Hello, I went to the install fest for a few minutes (had a 1000HE netbook there) and attend university of minnesota. I'm often busy on the days that meetings are held, so I haven't been to any official meetings but I'd like to go if possible sometime soon :) <Alpha_Cluster> Hello all I am Nick I was at the starting meeting like 2 years ago now for this LoCo but havent been around much for the last year or so but am back at least for now. Btw I live in Thief River Falls since my wiki info is old. <_diablo> I lurk here often. :) <zomGreg> Hello, I am a Ubuntu user although I'm partial to Debian. I have been a Ubuntu advocate for a few years. <zomGreg> I worked as part of a Ubuntu/Linux advocacy group called HOSEF (Hawaii Open Source Education Foundation) for a year <zomGreg> So it's good to see a community growing back in my home state of MN. <tonyyarusso> zomGreg: Hawaii? Are you going to school there or something? <zomGreg> nah, just worked there and volunteered. <zomGreg> I went to St. Thomas. Graduated in '99. * zomGreg feels old <tonyyarusso> Ah, cool. My dad went to StT for a year or two before transferring to the U. <zomGreg> I just moved back to MN this summer in time for the wonderful weather we're having <tonyyarusso> hehe <Alpha_Cluster> hey zomGreg whereever you are i dont know if it can be as cold as up here <tonyyarusso> Good to see you again btw Alpha_Cluster <zomGreg> I'm in Wayzata now <tonyyarusso> All righty, shall we talk a bit about blueprints then? (Feel free to still post if you're just typing slower) <tonyyarusso> website-replace-wiki ) <tonyyarusso> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/+spec/website-replace-wiki - Not a whole lot has happened since last month on this one that I'm aware of. * mr_steve is here, mostly :) <tonyyarusso> The one piece of news I have to report there is that the server was upgraded to Ubuntu 9.10, and the Drupal installation upgraded to the latest point release. <tonyyarusso> The Drupal user accounts will all be intact, but I didn't bother transferring your server user account Takyoji__ , so we'll have to do that again sometime. <Snoopy> Ok for now, just call me Snoopy because I wish to have my real identity secret. I like Ubuntu because it is free, I can use it for my work, and I can have a good experience with it compared to windows or mac os x. I would like to learn how to write a game or just a simple program <Snoopy> ok my text is read <Snoopy> *red <_diablo> Snoopy, it's showing up fine <Snoopy> let me retype my introduction <tonyyarusso> For those of you who are new, if you're interested in helping with the web site, you can use the register for an account link on the site and then shoot me an e-mail with the username you used and what your skill/knowledge level is and I can grant you appropriate permissions. <_diablo> tonyyarusso, what kind of help do you need? <tonyyarusso> Has anyone else done work on that since we last spoke that you'd like to mention? (I'm guessing most people were kind of on break for the holidays) <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Anywhere from copy-and-pasting information from the old wiki pages to the Drupal ones to CSS formatting, Drupal plugin management, etc. <_diablo> okay, fair enough. <Snoopy> Ok for now, just call me Snoopy because I wish to have my real identity secret. I like Ubuntu because it is free, I can do my work, and I can have a good experience with it compared to windows or mac os x. I would like to learn how to write a simple program and then move onto writing a game for ubuntu in the future. <tonyyarusso> Cool. <tonyyarusso> Next up is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/+spec/area-groups <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: between the holidays and getting ready for school I haven't had much time for the website, I expect that to change once I get back into a routine here <tonyyarusso> I think the action item for that should be to start listing any groups you know about on the linked spec wiki page, and we can start approaching them in a few weeks. <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: excellent - that's basically how it's been here too. <tonyyarusso> (Put your name by a group if you can be a liason to them also, so we know who our connections are) <_diablo> tonyyarusso, should penguins unbound be added? I don't know anyone there, but is that the same thing? <tonyyarusso> The third blueprint (https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-minnesota-projects/+spec/launchpad-education) doesn't really fit here too much (it's mostly for me), but what I would say if you have something in particular you'd like to know about let me know, and I'll try to include it. <tonyyarusso> _diablo: If it's not already listed, yes. Brian D-G and I have been in touch before also, so it's a relationship to maintain rather than a new one, but also important. <_diablo> okay <tonyyarusso> My family is also calling me for dinner (awful timing, oh well) - would someone else be able to continue the next few minutes seeing if there are things people want to bring up? (I'll read the scrollback again in half an hour or so) * zomGreg has to eat too * tonyyarusso appoints _diablo - if there's nothing else you can wrap it up around 8:00 :) <Takyoji__> Any ideas for events to start this year? (if any) <_diablo> alright, where is the schedule? <Takyoji__> such as of activism <mr_steve> I'm still big on the "Ubuntu Hour" idea, did we ever writeup/link to anything about that on the website? <Alpha_Cluster> one idea is county fairs? I knwo its early but we might want to start thnking about it <Alpha_Cluster> Ubuntu hour? <_diablo> I also don't know of ubuntu hour. <mr_steve> Sure, the idea is to basically go sit at a coffeeshop or something for an hour, with some ubuntu paraphanalia, CDs, etc <Takyoji__> Ahh yes, now I remember <Alpha_Cluster> oh <Alpha_Cluster> i would say yes but im out in boonies <_diablo> ah, that does sound like a good idea <mr_steve> To try to engage people and spread the word. It was also suggested that we could announce them on the website, probably with just short notice, and it could be an opportunity for some of us to meet up <Takyoji__> For reference: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour <_diablo> I would do it with someone else in Minneapolis, but it seems like it would be best in teams of 2 or maybe even 3 <mr_steve> I'm probably going to be doing it on occasional fridays, when I have a 2-hour gap between my classes <Snoopy> so we are talking about how to spread operating system? <_diablo> Snoopy, correct <_diablo> mr_steve, would you like some company? I really have very little experience, I just started about 18 months ago <mr_steve> _diablo: Yeah, we can probably arrange to link up. The time window will be somewhere between 11:40AM and 1:30PM, and near the MCTC campus <_diablo> it might just be me, but coffee shops seem like they would show more promise than a fair <_diablo> but it easily may not be <mr_steve> I like the idea especially because haunting coffeeshops and leeching wi-fi is something I tend to do anyway, so why not spread out some ubuntu stuff out on the table while I'm at it <_diablo> mr_steve, I'm free from 12:30 to 1:30 every day, so we'll figure some place to meet, I get back to MSP on the 16th <_diablo> mr_steve, exactly. <mr_steve> awesome <mr_steve> I may eventually try to commit to say, the 3rd friday of the month or something and put in the wiki page, but not for a while while I get the feel of college life <_diablo> Alpha_Cluster, what exactly did you mean by fairs? care to explain that a bit more? <Alpha_Cluster> its an expansion on what i brought up in 2008. <Takyoji__> Another potential topic (as it would be related, and would help with the above): T-shirts <Takyoji__> In the implication that it's better to buy Ubuntu t-shirts in bulk <Takyoji__> as of our LoCo <Alpha_Cluster> We could take advantage of the state fair and county fairs to hand out CDs and whatnot <Alpha_Cluster> it would be a good way to spread Ubuntu to people who would most likely not know waht it is <Takyoji__> And the consideration is just to choose a specific spot for promotion, or actually pay for an area? <_diablo> Alpha_Cluster, that's a good idea. <_diablo> Takyoji__, it seems far more practical to just stand and hand out CDs seeing how cheap they are <_diablo> I can donate a large number <Alpha_Cluster> yep its not to hard <Takyoji__> Gah, I can't remember how much it's at the Steele County Fair for a small spot <Takyoji__> (if ever considered at any extent) <Alpha_Cluster> i dont think its much normallly <Takyoji__> The only thing that gets in the way is that you have to have an industrial level GFCI for any type of electrical equipment <Takyoji__> (was in the Steele County Fair; for my brother's company Aqua Eden) <_diablo> alright, well, would someone like to look into that for next meeting? <_diablo> shouldn't take too long <_diablo> Takyoji__ ? <_diablo> alright, well, we can talk about that later I guess <_diablo> as far as t-shirts, that seems like a good idea. is anyone else interested? <mr_steve> I'd rock an Ubuntu T-shirt <Alpha_Cluster> same <Takyoji__> Shouldn't be much of an issue to find the number <Takyoji__> Perhaps someone should suggest it on the mailing list as well <Takyoji__> (as of the t-shirts) <_diablo> alright, seems like we have something substantial. that can either be on the wiki or something. I don't know the process <_diablo> the mailing list might be the best place <Takyoji__> Someone could probably even throw together a Google Docs poll or something for those that are interested. <mr_steve> Any really solid ideas can probably go on the website, like the Ubuntu hour thing for sure. Tho I'll still get a nod from tonyyarusso first <Takyoji__> and simply post that to the list instead <_diablo> okay. are there any other suggestions? otherwise it looks like we're done <mr_steve> I've got nothing further. I've been wayy to busy :) <Alpha_Cluster> yeah we should be done <_diablo> kk, good meeting all. <mr_steve> Alrighty then. For everyone who doesn't know, logs are here: http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2010/01/05/%23ubuntu-us-mn.html <Snoopy> ok just got back... what are we talking about? <_diablo> Snoopy, we just finished the meeting about what kinds of things we can do to increase activism <mr_steve> Snoopy: we've wrapped up the meeting, but feel free to stick around and chat <_diablo> you can see the log for detailed info if you're interested <_diablo> what is the mailing list? I'm going to send out the t-shirt poll <Snoopy> what t-shirt poll? <_diablo> Snoopy, read the log :) <Snoopy> like for the Ubuntu t-shirts? <_diablo> yes <Snoopy> cool <Snoopy> I am having an issue copying and pasting the websites here for some reason <_diablo> Snoopy, what client are you using? <Snoopy> Mozilla Firefox 3.5.6 <_diablo> which website? <_diablo> and which OS? <Snoopy> Ubuntu 9.10 With some pre release stuff installed... I can try to copy anything and only a windows appears which I can do the same good with it as what I can do with it here <Snoopy> Does anyone know if Lucid is stable enough to install yet? <Snoopy> I had Lucid installed and one night, I had clicked remove obsolete packages for everything (probably a mistake) and the next day, Grub could not find Ubuntu <Snoopy> I had Kubuntu-desktop installed which may have interfered with Ubuntu <_diablo> Snoopy, lucid is still in alpha, nowhere near production level yet <_diablo> but I would recommend using a dedicated irc client like xchat <_diablo> it is much easier and less buggy than web based clients <Snoopy> ok, can I find that in synaptic? <_diablo> yes, just search for 'xchat' without the quotes <Snoopy> ok there is x-chat and x-chat-gnome <Snoopy> i mean xchat and xchat-gnome <_diablo> add xchat <_diablo> and then run it <_diablo> and read the help files. they will explain how to set it up <_diablo> the server you want will be irc.freenode.net <_diablo> and then you should type '/join #ubuntu-us-mn' <_diablo> and you'll be here again :) <_diablo> good luck <Snoopy> ok one question about the chat stuff, why are some messages in red and others black? <Snoopy> red = private black = public? <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: afaik we have not yet written up a thing about Ubuntu Hour within Minnesota. We should both describe it and have a listing of places/times people are doing it. <Takyoji> Any message with your username is specially highlighted (a feature of a typical IRC client) <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: That would be the main event idea, although another that we had as a holdover from past meetings that would be cool if anyone volunteers to organize it was a winter BBQ. <tonyyarusso> Alpha_Cluster: I'm pretty sure you aren't far enough into the boonies to not have a coffee shop ;) <Guest16346> ok i am snoopy <mr_steve> tonyyarusso: indeed, like I mentioned I might not be able to commit to a specific day just yet, but eventually <mr_steve> I'll be posting a note to the mailing list before I do it, at any rate <_diablo> welcome snoopy <Snoopy> so would anyone here happen to know how to write applications? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: For T-Shirts, we did that once in the past (through the German LoCo), and could again, although I'm not sure how many people need them right now, so we'd want a rough indication of scope before committing to it. <_diablo> Snoopy, btw, if you wanna stay secret, you probably want to change your username. <Takyoji> Hence the reason for the poll <_diablo> it displays it <_diablo> Takyoji, tonyyarusso, I have the poll set up, I'm just getting ready to send it out now. gdocs will collate it for us <_diablo> (let me know if I'm trying to do too much too fast) <Takyoji> alright <_diablo> just trying to be helpful lol <Snoopy> ok so how does someone private message in xchat? <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Nifty. * tonyyarusso got the wrong size last time, so would probably be game again <tonyyarusso> Snoopy: /msg otherpersonsnick Some stuff here. <Takyoji> Double-click on their username, it'll open a tab for a private message session with them <tonyyarusso> I think you can ... <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: beat me <_diablo> tonyyarusso, which email should I share? it works best with a gmail account so you can see it in your gDocs. <tonyyarusso> _diablo: I'm not sure I understand the question? (I haven't used the gdocs poll stuff before) <Snoopy> so how does someone create that stuff with gdocs? I know that gdocs can be used to share files but I did not know it could create that poll stuff <_diablo> i sent out the poll <_diablo> tonyyarusso, well, I'll share the results with you (it will show each person and their responses) <_diablo> Snoopy, you use the 'form' feature. it then itemizes the results into a spreadsheet that is easily readable and manipulateable <Snoopy> Instead of google docs, I use Jotform <Snoopy> So I heard about something called "Ubuntu Mobile", is it real? <tonyyarusso> Snoopy: Yes, although still limited in practical availability. <tonyyarusso> Snoopy: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile <_diablo> brrrr, melrose MN is showing a temperature of -8 degrees. I'm so glad I'm not in MN right now. <Snoopy> Melrose, is that your hometown? <_diablo> nah, just saw it on a map <Snoopy> oh * Takyoji pokes _diablo <Takyoji> You have "Sample Question 2" :P * _diablo jabs Takyoji <_diablo> dammit. <Takyoji> You should have had something for sizes as well <Takyoji> Medium, Large, etc <_diablo> wait. sorry, forgot about the code of conduct <Takyoji> :o <_diablo> yeah, I totally messed that up. * Takyoji runs off to report _diablo <tonyyarusso> Sizes might be better to wait until we know whether there's a critical mass to bother, so people don't feel like they're placing an order yet? <_diablo> I sent out the form I accidentally made. not the real one * _diablo facepalms <Takyoji> ahh <_diablo> tonyyarusso, yeah, I'll pretend I was thinking that <Takyoji> I think optimal would be: Size, color (I think the option is either brown or black), gender, email <Takyoji> People who would want a shirt would fill it out <Takyoji> Could also add quantity as well <Snoopy> So how can I obtain Ubuntu mobile and put it on my pocket pc? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: last time it was black or navy blue actually. <_diablo> Takyoji, it's been changed <_diablo> I do kind of agree with tonyyarusso that we shouldn't make it an order just yet. Keep it to checking interest for now <Takyoji> Add size as well <Takyoji> So that people can just list it then, rather than having to take another poll for example (of shirt sizes) <tonyyarusso> (We'd also have to actually find out whether we have a supplier available to make the darn things ya know) <Snoopy> So how much would the shirts cost and what would it have on it? <Snoopy> I know where we could have shirts made! <tonyyarusso> Cost is determined by supplier, type, and number made. <Takyoji> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=14&osCsid=b4af34897e348ec94f03090437bc21ca <tonyyarusso> Last time they just had the Ubuntu logo on the left breast/shoulder area <tonyyarusso> Yes, we could order from Canonical if we want. <_diablo> size, gender, quantity, name, anything else? <Takyoji> I suppose that should be sufficient <Snoopy> A place in Freeport, MN can make shirts <tonyyarusso> Another reasonably priced option for polos is Lands' End, and if you just want to do t-shirts we have a connection with a local outfit in Elk River. <_diablo> alright, it's editted <_diablo> edited? <Snoopy> Would the shirt have the Ubuntu logo and then have Ubuntu Minnesota Team on the back <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Ideas of what kind of logo style people want - just logo, name, logo & name, location, yadda yadda <tonyyarusso> Snoopy: It could, but would cost more the more customized it is. <_diablo> tonyyarusso, do we want to give options or just leave it wide open like that? <Snoopy> I think that we could get cool shirts for under $20 * _diablo agrees with Snoopy <tonyyarusso> _diablo: I'd leave it open at this stage and see what people say probably <Alpha_Cluster> we should all vote on it tony <tonyyarusso> Snoopy: t-shirts yes. Polos you can do for under $30, but probably not under $20 * zomGreg is back <Alpha_Cluster> ohh ubuntu polos <_diablo> Takyoji, could you take a look at it now? does it change or will it need to be sent out again? <Alpha_Cluster> that might be too professonal looking <Alpha_Cluster> lol <Snoopy> ok I think it would be cool to get some shirts/hooded sweatshirts that have the logo and Ubuntu Minnesota Team in White letters on the back <Takyoji> You can remove the "Would you like a shirt?" prompt <Snoopy> well what are payment methods to obtain shirts anyways? <_diablo> Takyoji, why? <_diablo> Takyoji, seems like it's more user-friendly than having them enter quantity 0 or deleting it. and it gives more information <_diablo> they are more likely to click no and exit than enter 0 and exit <_diablo> gives us a better idea of how many people received it <Takyoji> Because people taking the poll are most likely going to be the ones interested; those that aren't interested most likely won't <_diablo> imo. I can remove if others disagree <Snoopy> Bye <_diablo> tonyyarusso, or Alpha_Cluster wanna settle this discussion? you're the break votes <_diablo> ;) <tonyyarusso> what am I voting on? <_diablo> it's getting very heated. I think Takyoji is going to swing at me <tonyyarusso> lol <_diablo> whether the first question is necessary <_diablo> or useful <tonyyarusso> oh. <tonyyarusso> Probably not. Count hits if you must. <Alpha_Cluster> lol <Alpha_Cluster> what tony said ;) <_diablo> I can't count hits, but yeah, sounds good. it's gone <Alpha_Cluster> how are you doing it? <_diablo> Alpha_Cluster, google docs <_diablo> via forms <Alpha_Cluster> ah yeah <Alpha_Cluster> you could just total the votes ;) <Takyoji> Google Docs is very convenient. <Alpha_Cluster> yeah but misses some really helpful features <_diablo> well, sorta, this way we have all the info we need to actually distribute them assuming we get a critical mass <_diablo> because it comes with names and stuff <Alpha_Cluster> like limiting votes for ip's and counting uniques <Takyoji> That's if you don't trust the data. :P <Alpha_Cluster> stone tablet! <Takyoji> Also you can just get an CSV export, shove it in a DB table, and query it as desired for any statistical information needed <_diablo> Alpha_Cluster, I agree. <Alpha_Cluster> if its not in stone we cannot say it happend! <Alpha_Cluster> lol <_diablo> hahaha, true. <_diablo> well, I'm going on a wendy's run, I'll ttys <Alpha_Cluster> Takyoji: well its already in a google spreasheet what more do you need? <_diablo> lemme know if anything isn't working right or if you can't see it tonyyarusso <Alpha_Cluster> well besides a real spreadsheet app ;) <Takyoji> otherwise what would be some reasonable methods of enhancing support for Ubuntu in Minnesota? <Alpha_Cluster> Takyoji: im partial for throwing CDs at people like ninja stars <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: The overriding mantra should be seeking out low-hanging fruit. <tonyyarusso> Find the people who have started looking into doing things with Linux, but need some help to do so. <Takyoji> I just feel like when you throw the CD at them, that they're on their own; we'd need to have some material promoting our LoCo group as a means of convenient technical support <tonyyarusso> Schools and libraries likely have situations like that in a few places - we need to find out which ones. <Takyoji> or moreso that they think that they're on their own <tonyyarusso> And you're right, it would be good to figure out what we can and can't do for technical support. <jenkinbr> sorry i missed the meeting, was having connection issues <tonyyarusso> Should Ubuntu Hour be used as a support opportunity, or just promotion? Is it feasible to say that the person in the coffee shop can help you? Or could they at least explain where you can find help? <Alpha_Cluster> Takyoji: you misinterpreted my meaning i met literally chucking them at people <Alpha_Cluster> maybe if we hit them heard enough they will wise up to it ;) <Takyoji> I would mostly lean towards support; after there's at least a few that have Ubuntu installed <Takyoji> But what if it hurts them? :P <Takyoji> Otherwise we could sharpen the edges of the discs, if you really wanted to. :P <Takyoji> (sarcasm implied of course) <Alpha_Cluster> lol its ok Takyoji i was joking :) <Alpha_Cluster> i like doing supportt <Alpha_Cluster> hence me being here <tonyyarusso> I would suggest that our team is far from having the resources available to actually provide a significant amount of support, but we are very capable of doing "Tier 1" support and being knowledgable about where to go for Tier 2. For a lot of people the biggest issue is the overwhelmingness of what happens when they google "Ubuntu support" - what the heck is IRC? Launchpad? Bug reports? Forums? Blogs? Wikis? How do I know which <Takyoji> We need dedicated beings to watch every thing that goes on in this channel, and be able to have a response time of less than 0.1 seconds. :P <Takyoji> Otherwise it would be nice to have some form of tools/plugins to aid those providing support <tonyyarusso> Actually Takyoji, I don't think you're that far off. I think it would be useful to have an IRC bot that can give a canned response if no human answers a question within X time. <Takyoji> or simply someone writing a wiki (of our LoCo wiki) of the best setup for such <Takyoji> Like for example, it would be convenient if I had a way to be explicitly notified of everything in this channel, including people simply joining the channel <_diablo> I will be in here far more often and will be willing to help where I can <_diablo> also, mr_steve and I will be doing some coffee shops and I will be willing to help anyone that needs it there <_diablo> as well and chilling and giving people handouts when we can <_diablo> what handouts do we have? are they prepared yet? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: err, do you not know how to use /hilight? <_diablo> Takyoji, yeah, xchat can do that <tonyyarusso> _diablo: we have nothing specific to our team, but spreadubuntu has generic materials. <_diablo> tonyyarusso, okay, I'll take a look <Takyoji> It's complaining that it doesn't know of the command <Takyoji> I'm using GNOME-XChat <_diablo> Is it okay that I get involved here even though I don't run Ubuntu on my machines exclusively and it usually annoys me? (I do think it's probably the best starter distro at absolute least and some people love it forever, that's their right) <tonyyarusso> hehe, yes :) <tonyyarusso> We don't have any exclusivity terms - just the Code of Conduct. <_diablo> tonyyarusso, okay good :) I figured, but didn't know how fanatical you were :) <_diablo> sounds good <tonyyarusso> I'm pretty sure if we excluded anyone who used any other system there'd only be like 3 people left. <Takyoji> What? You're against Ubuntu, therefore against our culture?! <Takyoji> Hang him! <Takyoji> :P <_diablo> lol, viva el slackware! <Takyoji> I'd be curious of poking at Slackware eventually <zomGreg> i tried it once, I don't really remember much. <_diablo> Takyoji, it's super annoying. I just tried it for a few days. idk, I'm not a compiling guy <_diablo> it's fun at first, but gets old real fast <_diablo> although it is very very clean <tonyyarusso> Apparently using slackware is like a bad night of drinking, eh zomGreg ? * zomGreg has gentoo on his x200 laptop. <zomGreg> indeed it is <zomGreg> just tea for me tonight, though <_diablo> slackware is like gentoo for people that are sane :) <zomGreg> i like gentoo for the challenge of it. it's a great learning tool <zomGreg> I can see where people get militant about using it. It's a rite of passage to some. Get the system down and it gets in your head <zomGreg> Nothing like compiling the 10th kernel of the day to hammer in that process. <Takyoji> I'm just curious of learning the internal structure and so forth <zomGreg> gentoo has some excellent documentation. Very solid. <mr_steve> Gentoo is fun.. Not always useful, but definitely fun <mr_steve> And my Gentoo experience has given me insight into solving problems I run into in other distros as well <zomGreg> True, I don't really see any performance gains. But it would be easy to chop down a gentoo install for very specific applications <_diablo> Yeah, I tried linux from scratch. I almost died <mr_steve> Yeah, it's handy for that <mr_steve> _diablo: me too <zomGreg> hah, I was going to ask if anyone had. <zomGreg> I haven't tried it yet <mr_steve> I've still got a half-finished LFS build in a VirtualBox VM <mr_steve> Now that I've been away from it for a couple weeks it's probably impossible to finish <_diablo> yup. I even was using the book step by step <_diablo> sigh. it was rough <zomGreg> Virtualizing gentoo only confused things for me. I had to learn it on bare metal. <_diablo> I realized I have no idea how to compile. <_diablo> how difficult is gentoo compared to LFS or slackware, anyone know? mr_steve <mr_steve> Definitely not as difficult as LFS <_diablo> also, anyone have experience with sabayan? <mr_steve> I'm not sure about slackware, I only tried it briefly. There's no dependency handling for packages, right? <_diablo> mr_steve, correct <mr_steve> Yeah, I think that'd bug me. Gentoo may compile everything from source, but it does it with fairly intelligent dependencies * zomGreg agrees <mr_steve> emerge -e world makes a great stress test for a new box, too ;) <_diablo> hmmm, do you know sabayan? isn't that related to gentoo? <zomGreg> although the masking blocking and crap can get maddening <mr_steve> _diablo: I've heard of it but never looked into it <_diablo> don't worry about it too much, I'll look into it otherwise. <mr_steve> Hey has anyone had the misfortune of dealing with Acer 1st tier support? <Takyoji> So for Linux from Scratch; that's simply just the kernel; and then you have to get other parts installed and configured like a command prompt, package manager, etc, or? <mr_steve> Takyoji: No package manager, unless you choose to add one. The basic book just covers compiling *everything* required for a minimal system, from scratch <_diablo> Takyoji, technically, there's not even a kernel, you have to get one and compile it yourself <mr_steve> You start with a host system, and you build the compiler and toolchain from source. Then you build the compiler and toolchain from source again, using the compiler you just built. And then you build the compiler and toolchain from source... <Takyoji> Sounds more and more interesting. :P <mr_steve> You build other stuff along the way too, but you seriously do build the toolchain 3 times, to eliminate any dependence on the original host compiler <Takyoji> I have a very deep curiosity in many things <Takyoji> Wikipedia is my drugs.. <mr_steve> I recommend making sure you have some ability to copy & paste from the LFS book online to the build system's console, or you will go quite mad <mr_steve> Lots of very hairy sed/awk voodoo involved in configuring the toolchain, especially <mr_steve> re: Wikipedia, me too :) <_diablo> Takyoji, also, having a second computer next to you is handly <_diablo> s/handly/handy <Takyoji> I may soon <Takyoji> An old laptop <Takyoji> Probably like 4 years or so old <_diablo> getting a nice shiny one? or an old one? <Takyoji> already has Ubuntu installed; it'll be one handed down to me <_diablo> ah, nice. <Takyoji> My brother's wife's laptop. * Takyoji annoys tonyyarusso more <tonyyarusso> what'd I do now? <Takyoji> It would also be nice to have attendance of whom was at certain events, etc; so the amount of work a person puts in can be measured (in some general form or another), and so a person has bragging rights (where it be for a resume or Ubuntu membership) <tonyyarusso> This is true. <tonyyarusso> I think there are some drupal modules that include event attendance tracking... <arisystems> anyone here anymore <Takyoji> Nope, there's nobody ihodge@example.net. <tonyyarusso> :S <Takyoji> I have a feeling it was someone of: http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f5mbf <_diablo> i'm here! <Takyoji> A bit sad that there's nobody marked on the map anywhere south of Faribault (on the Launchpad map). :P <tonyyarusso> I'm a bit sad that still only like half of the people are marked on the ihodge@example.net. <Takyoji> At the next installfest we'll stealthily bag any member that comes and put them in a locked room, and force them to add their general location to the map. <tonyyarusso> haha <mr_steve> I think I'm on the map. Or at least, a location within a few miles of me is on the map :) <_diablo> I'm on the map I think <zomGreg> good morning all <Snoopy> hello <zomGreg> Hi Snoopy, I didn't see your reply until just now. I was watching an argument in another channel while working. <_diablo> Snoopy, we don't really know any of this yet, for now, it's just general interest. If you're interested, just fill out the survey and list any concerns in the comments section. This isn't an order or anything, it's just a straw poll <CosmicPizza> hi there <_diablo> hi CosmicPizza <CosmicPizza> hi _diablo howdy ? <Snoopy> Hi CosmicPizza <CosmicPizza> hey Snoopy <Snoopy> So will the Ubuntu shirts have "Ubuntu Minnesota Team" on them? <_diablo> Snoopy, we don't know yet, there's an option in the survey for what you want them to say. When you fill it out, you can see that that is one of the choices <Snoopy> I already filled the survey and I put what i thought should work in there <Snoopy> I might buy more than 2 shirts if the price is good and they are too cool to not buy <_diablo> alright, cool. thanks for filling that out <_diablo> CosmicPizza, what are you up to today? <CosmicPizza> i' m great <CosmicPizza> thx <Snoopy> What versions of Ubuntu are we using here? <Snoopy> I am using 9.10 <Snoopy> But once I restart, I am in 10.04 <zomGreg> I have a couple 8.04 servers I'm working on. <h00k> 9.1 <h00k> 0 <CosmicPizza> 9.10 <h00k> I just upgraded to 64bit yesterday <_diablo> on my netbook I run karmic <h00k> and Karmic on my netbook as well <CosmicPizza> but i' m using ubutu since the breezy one <_diablo> h00k, !! fun! it has been substantially faster imo <_diablo> CosmicPizza, whoa <h00k> _diablo: 64bit? <_diablo> h00k, yeah <_diablo> there was just a thing that came out that for some things like compiling it was like 50% faster <_diablo> i mean, you won't see that day to day, but still cool <h00k> _diablo: I'm not having any problems with it, so far it's been sweet. <_diablo> h00k, agreed. I'm on 32 only because flash annoyed me in 64. glitched like crazy. although to be fair, I haven't tried it in ages. probably 9 months <CosmicPizza> breezy looks like karmik <h00k> flash annoyed me a ton on 32bit, I haven't really tried flash too heavily on 64bit <CosmicPizza> it ' s a very goog like breezy' s like <CosmicPizza> good <CosmicPizza> "" <Snoopy> Is there a command to enter into the terminal or a package to install to move to the 64-bit Ubuntu when using a 32-bit ubuntu? <tonyyarusso> Snoopy: No. You have to re-install the OS. (Although if you're partitioned off /home you can keep your data) <Snoopy> What are some of the benefits of the 64-bit software anyways? <h00k> I just found out this works even if you have your /home encrypted from the "Log in and automatically decrypt" option set on install <h00k> the reinstall of 64, I mean <h00k> I used the same username and password, and there were no problems having it automatically decrypt <h00k> Snoopy: it's the wave of the future! <h00k> Snoopy: also, faster <Snoopy> How can someone play an .asf video and hear the audio in Ubuntu? <_diablo> h00k, Snoopy Ah! I found it :) http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/12/ubuntu-64bit-really-is-faster-than.html <_diablo> for some things it doesn't matter at all, but for some, like apache, it increases by something like 20 times <h00k> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_32_pae&num=1 <h00k> yeah, I had this tab up <_diablo> also, is anyone using burg to boot? <_diablo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/01/make-grub-themes-beautiful-look-nicer.html <_diablo> because it looks gorgeous <_diablo> if I dualbooted on an ubuntu machine I'd try it <Snoopy> I no longer dualboot :) <_diablo> same <Snoopy> I had Winxp and Ubuntu and neede to dualboot... Then win7 and Ubuntu and had to dualboot not, I only have Ubuntu and any needs of the windows os I go to virtualbox <_diablo> yeah, idk, I did that for a while, but now I've even deleted my virtualbox. I only needed it for one program and I eventually told the people that were making me use it to eff off. <_diablo> this code of conduct is cramping my chat conversations... <_diablo> and conventions <Snoopy> what code? <h00k> heh, we got the point and you didn't even have to break the code of conduct! <_diablo> sigh, after hanging out on the #linuxoutlaws chat, it's hard to filter myself :) <_diablo> Snoopy, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct <_diablo> actually, nowhere in there or in the mailing lists etiquette does it prohibit language that some may consider de-clase <_diablo> s/de-clase/dÃ©classÃ© <Snoopy> in 3 mins, I will have 10.04 lucid lynx on my system <Snoopy> I have lucid on here now! <Snoopy> so cool <Snoopy> but it is more like karmic <h00k> right now, yeah. <Snoopy> I like Jaunty more than Karmic for some reason <Snoopy> maybe because I tested Karmic and Jaunty had way few bugs <Snoopy> I cannot wait till Ubuntu Lucid Lynx !0.04 Alpha 4! <Snoopy> less bugs hopefully :) #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-01-06 <tonyyarusso> !logs | sparklehistory <ubot3`> sparklehistory: Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso, thanks! * Takyoji annoys _diablo. "In which way were they forcing you to use it?" (as in, the reason, etc) <_diablo> Takyoji, the defaults <_diablo> they are set to a certain icon set. <_diablo> I assume you're referring to gnome icon set in ubuntu? <_diablo> let me clarify again that I don't hate ubuntu and I run it on a machine. I also recommend it a lot. <Takyoji> You already implied such yesterday. :P <Takyoji> I was curious of what application you were being forced to
{'channel': 'ubuntu-us-mn', 'month': 1}