#ubuntu-design 2012-09-03
<mpt> JohnLea, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserAccounts#account-access
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-06
<PaoloRotolo> Good morning!
<_fluffy_> Can anyone help me out?..
<_fluffy_> I'm a developer and designer stepping on to UX
<_fluffy_> I think the best way to do that is by contributing to open source
<_fluffy_> but i've no clue on what to do? Can anyone help me to get started?
<_fluffy_> i saw this awesome step by step how to on gnu-usability project, but i checked out their channel and couldn't find anyone. can someone provide me with atleast a link on how to get started on contributing to ubuntu ux?
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-07
<PaoloRotolo> Good morning
<PaoloRotolo> Hey me4oslav ;)
<_UXmaster_> hey
<_UXmaster_> can anyone help me on how to get started on contributing to ubuntu UX?
<_UXmaster_> can anyone help me on how to get started on contributing to ubuntu UX?
<MCR1> JohnLea: Is it allowed to nerve you with 2 other design decisions needed ?
<JohnLea> MCR1; I'm just about to go into a meeting, but fire away - if I don't have time to answer them fully now we can come back to them later
<MCR1> Thanks, 1. bug 1017541
<MCR1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1017541
<JohnLea> MCR1; that's something we are looking at for 13.04
<MCR1> 2. bug 1037959
<MCR1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1037959
<JohnLea> MCR1; the previews haven't fully landed yet, what you are seeing now is incomplete with missing elements
<MCR1> About the back button and right click cancel of previews - I did not find the other one related to it
<JohnLea> MCR1; hopefully there will be something cooler than a simple 'Back to results' button, but we have such a button reach as a fall back if we can't land plan A on time
<MCR1> What is plan A ?
<JohnLea> MCR1; hopefully a good surprise ;-)  but we need to see if it can land first before announcing.  But you won't have too long to wait, max 2 weeks
<MCR1> JohnLea: Ok, thanks a lot for your time - I'll let you go now ;)
<JohnLea> MCR1; np, thx!
<_fluffy_> hey, help anyone?
<_fluffy_> please help me on getting started on contributing to ubuntu UX
<_fluffy_> atleast a proper how to link would be really helpful
<thorwil> _fluffy_: outside of developing software that is or ends up in ubuntu and some discussions of very questionable worth on ux matters on the ubuntu-design list, "contributing to ubuntu UX" is an unsloved problem
<thorwil> unsolved. even
<thorwil> _fluffy_: i think, if you want to do work with impact, your best bet would be  contributing to a specific piece of software (that could be in the default install or be a common choice in some area). just proposing some changes out of the blue is unlikely to work. you have to get to know the (main) developers, build trust and understanding regarding goals and motivation
<thorwil> now how one would go about that without already having training in design/ux ... i don't know
<_fluffy_> So, what is this channel basically for? What do people do over here? I've been posting this question for last two days and your's was the first reply i got.
<thorwil> _fluffy_: this channel is a symbol for the health of a open/shared design process for all of ubuntu ;)
<thorwil> gotta run, bye!
<_fluffy_> Let me start fresh, i'm a developer and graphic designer. I recently got interested in UX and would like to pursue HCI after graduation. Before that i want to gain some experience on the same, so i think contributing to the open source would be the best way
<_fluffy_> anyone else out there?
<_fluffy_> anyone working on gnome usability project?
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-08
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-09
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-10
<PaoloRotolo> Good morning!
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-11
 * mpt tries to think of a single word that means "not started"
<mpt> "unstarted"
<mpt> "unbegun"
<snwh> mpt stopped
<mpt> "stopped" implies that it was previously started
<mpt> The word I'm looking for is, to 0%, what "complete" is to 100% :-)
<snwh> well that would be incomplete :)
<mpt> "incomplete" covers 1~99%
<mpt> or 0~99%, even
<bwinton> mpt: Unstarted?  Vapourware?
<snwh> so you need the lower extreme
<snwh> vapourware haha
<bwinton> theoretical?  planned?
<mpt> bwinton, yes, I wondered about "unstarted" while you are offline
<mpt> This is about fingerprint registration, not software development :-)
<snwh> whats the context of the word?
<mpt> A gauge to show how complete the registration is for a particular finger
<snwh> unregistered?
<mpt> "complete" at the trailing end, "______" at the leading end
<mpt> Maybe I don't need a label at the leading acolon@example.com...
<snwh> (does this mean fingerprint support in ubuntu? :D)
<mpt> It's one of those "maybe someday" features
<mpt> Maybe a published design will inspire a contributor ... it's happened before
<snwh> true enough. my thinkpad has an unused reader, which im not really missing solely a bell/whistle
<snwh> how about: "unregistered, ___% registered, registered"?
<mpt> "registered" is a binary condition, it just happens to involve a fractional process
<mpt> You can't identify yourself with a 99%-registered finger
<snwh> tell that to my fingerprint software on my windows partition..
<mpt> really?
<snwh> yea it does it by % when registering. I have to stroke my finger 10 times for it to register and it goes up by 10% increments in 'registration'
<mpt> snwh, who develops that software?
<snwh> Authentec
<snwh> i think
<snwh> yes
<snwh> AuthenTec TrueSuite
<bwinton> Unregistered, registering %, registered?
<snwh> its quite awful.
<mpt> So, not this one then <http://www.jmedved.com/content/media/windows8authentecprotectorsuite.png>
<snwh> mpt, this: http://support.authentec.com/Portals/4/Images/TrueSuite5/TS_intro.png
<mpt> thanks snwh
<mpt> (Are those really Twitter and Facebook icons on one of the fingers?)
<snwh> yea.
<mpt> "Reading 1", "Reading 2", "Reading 3" http://blogimages.builttoroam.com/nick/image_6CDD71F9.png
<snwh> the software will let you register your social passwords with a fingerprint requires a browser plugin though
<snwh> mpt, yea I like the multiple reading plus checkbox idea
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-12
<PaoloRotolo> Good morning!
<mpt> Just completed: design for fingerprint registration in System Settings. <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserAccounts#fingerprint>
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-21
<ara_> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1sbCv6QfsgL4c8UUG_6tfrWpHEebd6tVcXqWDmTlJuqw/edit#heading=h.dcudvm6yjpt4
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-22
<snwh> I did a little tweaking of the messaging menu icons; thought it might be something to share with the design team ;) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png
<snwh> probably more specifically: mpt
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-23
<snwh> Seeing as this is the design team channel, thoughts?:
<snwh> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QJvy9-fvk50/UF8vyNXXRwI/AAAAAAAAClE/x79uYY1YQYY/s849/settings-lens.png
<snwh> sabdfl is thus mockup something along the lines of what you mentioned?
<sabdfl> snwh, good start!
<sabdfl> i would tackle it slightly differently
<sabdfl> on the left, put Scopes
<sabdfl> so each Scope can have some preferences
<sabdfl> and at the top, put Home
<sabdfl> for Home, on the right, I would have some preferences like:
<sabdfl>   - Amazon search [ON | OFF]
<sabdfl> how does that sound?
<snwh> yes that makes a lot more sense.
<snwh> someone also mentioned to me, changing my mockup to a tab under Appearance with the rest of the unity settings.
<snwh> looking like this: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WJ4Pstu5MWg/UF87wX4hJhI/AAAAAAAACl8/k9FH4hshYqY/s720/settings-lens-alt.png
<snwh> ill post to the unity-design mailing list to get more feedback :)
<sabdfl> snwh, perhaps "Dash" rather than "Ubuntu Lens"
<sabdfl> but it's headed in the right direction
<sabdfl> thanks!
<snwh> sabdfl, no problem!
<snwh> mechoslav, I have made further mockups
<snwh> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png
<snwh> :)
<mechoslav> You snwh - you should totally upload those to the ML and talk with mptt about them
<mechoslav> with mpt *
<snwh> ML?
<snwh> Oh mailing list
<snwh> way ahead of you
<mechoslav> I just woke up from a nap, of course you're way ahead :D
<snwh> I
<snwh> I'll* mention it mpt
<snwh> mechoslav, like most things on omg! the indicator icons have a mixed response. haha
<mechoslav> snwh - Comments on OMG! are *always* mixed
<snwh> mechoslav, it's become too easy to spot an inflammatory post
<mechoslav> BTW, snwh, add this to the mockups:
<mechoslav> Looks great!
<mechoslav> In addition it would be nice be able to configure the hotkey for the
<mechoslav> lenses and wether their search results are shown in the Dash home.
<snwh> I'll forgive the slight misuse of hitherto :P
<snwh> mechoslav, wouldnt hotkey support be ideally under Keyboard with the rest of the shortcuts
<mechoslav> snwh - depends on user testing, really.
<mechoslav> Case A) The user wants to tweak Unity and goes to System Settings -> Unity and finds the kbd shortcuts there
<mechoslav> Case B) The user wants to tweak Unity kbd shorctcuts and goes to System Settings -> Unity
<mechoslav> Case C) The user wants to tweak Unity kbd shortcuts and goes to System Settings -> Unity
<mechoslav> I would say this - make a link - label that will transfer the user to System Settings -> Keyboard -> Shorcuts (tab) -> Unity in System Settings -> Unity if the users want to tweak Unity kbd shortcuts and to ensure that even if the user doesn't want to tweak them he will still know he can do that :)
<mechoslav> But from *my PoV* tweaking those is useless
<snwh> agreed. the more lenses you have the more shortcuts...
<snwh> such as how keyboard shortcuts link to layout
<snwh> I'll mock that up too :)
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-25
<snwh> mpt it was suggested I ought talk to you about mockups I've done, regaring unity settings in Ubuntu: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png
<mpt> snwh, that icons URL <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png> gives me a 404.
<mpt> now, to the settings panel
<snwh> mpt, that one's gone so it'll 404
<mpt> snwh, if an Ubuntu user sees the word "Unity" anywhere in the UI, we've screwed up.
<snwh> "Dash" then?
<snwh> since it's present in the UI already
<mpt> We have names for specific elements -- Dash, Launcher, menu bar, windows, notification bubbles, etc -- and that's unavoidable, but there's no reason for people to know that some those elements are part of "Unity" and some aren't.
<mpt> "Dash" would be fine, yes.
<mpt> <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png>: Have you considered making the Dash settings part of the "Appearance" tab? There are pros and cons to doing that.
<snwh> I think that was briefly discussed when I sent these through unity-design ML
<snwh> would it not be more easily found if it were out front -as it were?
<mpt> Yes, it would
<mpt> I designed a separate "Launcher & Menus" panel a while ago for the same reason
<mpt> (back when we were considering making the menu bar more configurable)
<snwh> such as the infamous autohide menu.
<mpt> So that would be one of the cons. The pro is that it would avoid panel proliferation, with the ugly orphan effect in your mockup.
<mpt> (orphan = the last item on a row by itself)
<snwh> and we don't want to stretch it again as for U1
<mpt> Unfortunately the hard work of merging panels isn't as sexy as creating new ones
<mpt> <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png>: I don't know what "Dash Form Factor" means, and I doubt other people would either :-)
<mpt> The menu label is far too far away from the menu -- it should be 12px or so
<mpt> "Search Results" looks awkward as a heading when it's the only heading in the panel.
<mpt> I've found a good heuristic when designing is that if you're repeating a word several times, you can usually factor it out.
<mpt> What's the repeated word here, and how could you solve that and the single-heading problem at the same time?
<snwh> Well "Lens"
<snwh> a title i suppose
<snwh> I wasn't sure about the labeling but to differentiate lens from scopes
<mpt> I think "Lens" and (especially) "Scope" falls into the same category as "Unity" :-)
<mpt> but actually I was looking at the main area of the "Dash Home" sub-panel specifically
<snwh> I thought of putting it in since installable lens and scopes appear in the Software center with that as a label
<snwh> Ah "results"
<mpt> "Search Results", "Amazon results", "Ubuntu One Music Store results"
<mpt> bingo
<mpt> So, how could you fix that?
<snwh> i had a version without, but thought if its too much i'll be told to remove it
<snwh> drop it entirely?
<mpt> That's one way. How else?
<snwh> scrap it and put the Amazon and U1 store scopes on the left?
<mpt> That's a possibility, but I'm not sure what would go in the main area in that case. How else?
<snwh> putting me on the spot. I'm blanking
<snwh> if the header was gone.. and just the checkboxes..?
<mpt> snwh, if someone asked you what these checkboxes do, what would you say?
<snwh> Unchecking would prevent Amazon results from appearing in the Dash home
<snwh> for example
<mpt> And what would checking them do?
<snwh> show the results
<mpt> good
<snwh> a switch
<mpt> Those are good words to use in a label
<mpt> When searching, show results from:
<mpt> [/] Amazon
<mpt> [/] Ubuntu One Music Store
<mpt> Since it shows results from your PC as well, perhaps "include" would be even better than "show".
<snwh> of course
<mpt> <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png>
<mpt> snwh, would there be a "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox for every lens?
<snwh> something along those lines
<mpt> Can you think of a drawback to presenting settings for the Dash Home contents that way?
<snwh> if a user wanted to hide the results from the home, but not disable the lens entirely
<snwh> not knowing which are disabled
<mpt> right
<mpt> It would be difficult to see, at a glance, which items might appear and which wouldn't.
<mpt> You'd have to navigate to each item in the list and then look at its "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox.
<mpt> How might you make that quicker?
<snwh> a massive checklist
<snwh> perhaps under home settings
<snwh> would a tree view be too much
<mpt> Ah, but you already have a tree view there :-)
<mpt> How about using the same one?
<snwh> but with an indication of which are disable
<snwh> -ed*
<mpt> That would work
<mpt> Or, you could move the checkbox itself into a column of the treeview.
<snwh> of course
<snwh> this is why youre the professional
<mpt> heh
<mpt> With regard to Unity, we're both interested bystanders. :-)
<snwh> i was concerned with the advent of more and more lenses this is a missing feature
<mpt> yes indeed
<snwh> but beyond my skills to try myself
<bizhanMona> HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html  Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx
<bizhanMona> HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html  Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx
<snwh> well mpt, i shall fix the mockups
<me4oslav> bizhanMona Try asking on just #ubuntu ... I guess :)
<mpt> snwh, good work. Thanks for getting involved.
<snwh> mpt, thanks for taking the time
<snwh> to set me straight
<snwh> heh
<mpt> bizhanMona, this isn't really the appropriate channel for that, but no. <http://blog.canonical.com/2012/09/20/quetzal-is-taking-flight-update-on-ubuntu-secure-boot-plans/>
<mpt> bizhanMona, if you have more questions after reading that, I suggest asking in #ubuntu-devel.
<mpt> (Though I see you already got the same answer in #ubuntu-desktop.)
<bizhanMona> mpt: thanks I placed the question on a few ubuntu- channels at the same time, I was not sure which one is the appropriate place. Now i know. thank you.
<mpt> np
<snwh> alright, mpt some improvements made: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png
<mpt> snwh, nice work
<mpt> snwh, all the panels are settings panels, so "Dash Settings" might be a little redundant :-)
<mpt> What choices would be available in the "Dash size:" menu?
<snwh> I was thinging full-screen, reduced(?) and automatic
<snwh> think*
<mpt> snwh, do you know what "Automatic" does?
<snwh> Would choose either full-screen or reduced depending on the screen size.
<snwh> i guess its not clear to an end user
<snwh> "Adapt-to-screen"
<mpt> so, there are three options
<mpt> Do you think a menu is the best way to present those three options?
<snwh> radio buttons?
<mpt> yep
<mpt> Open the Dash: ( ) Full screen  (*) Reduced on large screens
<mpt> or something like that
<mpt> (maybe "Dash size:" would actually be clearer for that)
<mpt> I guess the "Home" lens item shouldn't have a checkbox at all, eh
<mpt> but the rest of them need a column heading to explain what the checkboxes are for
<mpt> What could that be
<mpt> Oh, I left out the "Automatic" option
<mpt> for the Dash size
<snwh> well the checkbox is to invoke the status of the lens/scope
<mpt> If there are three or more options, radio buttons shouldn't be laid out horizontally -- in this case because they wouldn't fit, but in general because it would mean they were differing distances apart
<snwh> so: "Enabled" as a column
<mpt> but there's plenty of room here to go vertical
<snwh> but doesnt a checkbox have the implicit meaning of whatever it does is enabled or not?
<mpt> Size for the Dash when opened: (*) Automatic
<mpt>                                ( ) Full screen
<mpt>                                ( ) Reduced on smaller screens
<mpt> or something
<snwh> the radio buttons wouldnt go under the label?
<mpt> they could, depending on the width
<snwh> okay
<mpt> snwh, yes indeed, "Enable", like "Enabled", is best avoided -- invariably it can be rewritten more meaningfully
<mpt> I guess a fully explanatory heading would be "Include in Home Results"
<mpt> I wonder if that could be shorter
<snwh> but then Home is under "Include in Home results" which is paradoxical
<mpt> That's okay if it doesn't have a checkbox
<snwh> okay
<snwh> mpt, could the radio buttons go something like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png
<mpt> snwh, yep
<mpt> snwh, the radio buttons was just an idea ... it depends partly on how much space is available, and partly on how important the setting is
<snwh> well the "window controls" do exist when the dash is present
<snwh> mpt, i think we're getting somewhere https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png
<mpt> Progress indeed
<me4oslav> I just came to say, that snwh's speed of creating mockups is to infinity and beyond. **flies away**
<snwh> the HUD is very useful in GIMP
<mpt> snwh, I need to concentrate on messaging menu stuff now, but I'd be interested to see how the rest of the screens look tomorrow perhaps
<mpt> snwh, also, has didrocks seen your work?
<snwh> no didrocks hasnt
<snwh> i could have the other screens completed
<snwh> mpt, i did have a thought on the messaging menu though -regarding icons
<mpt> snwh, ah, were you the one who did the colored envelopes?
<snwh> yes
<mpt> The tricky thing is that we are trying to communicate two different things with the icon
<mpt> (1) whether you have new (important) messages or not
<mpt> (2) what your chat status is
<mpt> Currently we're using the color of the envelope for (1), and the emblem for (2).
<mpt> You use the color of the envelope for (2), which gives up (1) altogether as far as I can see.
<snwh> what if the envelop were to blink?
<mpt> I think that would be unpleasant, because you may want to leave it for hours
<snwh> true
<mpt> (Actually I think it used to blink, briefly, for a while in the 9.10/10.04 era)
<mpt> (and sabdfl rightly scotched it)
<snwh> i fail to recall that..
<me4oslav> what if only a part of the envelope is coloured in-some-colour?
<snwh> my thought was to use the colours since the new message blue would still convey its meaning and revert to the green or what have you when read.
<mpt> me4oslav, that's pretty much what the emblem achieves -- with the benefit that it's using miniatures of the same icons Empathy uses itself.
<mpt> The problem with the current icons, I think, is that the emblems don't stand out strongly enough against the envelope. That's partly a problem of color (not bright enough), partly size (a little too small), and partly outline (maybe the envelope should have an emblem-shaped chunk cut out of it).
<snwh> the different shapes are a bit garish, if they were all circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png
<me4oslav> mpt - I think (major rajor personal opinion) that this colourful emblem is a bit too much (could be very wrong, through)
<mpt> snwh, with both the envelope and the emblem, the differing shapes helps people who are color blind
<mpt> (or have lesser color impairments)
<mpt> However, they are a bit *too* different in size right now
<mpt> e.g. the triangle looks much larger than the square
<snwh> very true
<snwh> if the emblem was within the circle?
<snwh> then the overlay would be too small
<snwh> mpt, what is it was no longer an envelope?
<snwh> if*
<snwh> but i suppose thats the most familiar metaphor
<snwh> answering my own questions.
<mpt> snwh, yes, it could be a speech bubble or something instead
<snwh> like the good ol' me menu of the past, heh
<mpt> yep
<mpt> (which is fair enough, since it is a merger)
<mpt> oh, wtf
<mpt> OMG Ubuntu, a week ago: "Where no chat accounts are enabled youâll still be stuck with an annoying green dot (to denote âonline)."
<mpt> And nobody thought to report a bug about that?
<snwh> i noticed that with my green envelope thing, but thought it was something i'd done
<mpt> (reported bug 1056457)
<snwh> mpt, how about shapes like this? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-menu.png
<mpt> snwh, that looks okay, except that now you're showing chat status in two different ways
<mpt> (a) color of the envelope, and (b) color+shape of the status icon
<me4oslav> mpt snwh - In case you haven't seen it: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/is-an-off-switch-for-the-shopping-lens-in-the-works
<mpt> :-)
<snwh> I only changed the shapes, just now. havent touched the envelopes
<snwh> Geez Joey is everywhere
<mpt> If Joey was here, I would scowl at him here for not reporting that bug
<mpt> snwh, I reported http://launchpad.net/bugs/1056488 about the messaging menu icons
 * mpt -> home
<me4oslav> mpt you've at the office 'til 11.37?
<me4oslav> O.o
<me4oslav> PM that is
<mpt> yeah, I was sick this morning so started at 3pm
<mpt> anyway, toodle pip
<snwh> All the way over here in Canada it's only 639pm
<me4oslav> 1.40 AM ... had 4 coffees today, can't sleep ... oh well, I can always start work bit later tmrw :)
<snwh> me4oslav, indeed you can
<snwh> that sounds like my usual coffee consumption
<me4oslav> So, that's what the secret about the mockups is :D
<snwh> me4oslav, how to you like these circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot2.png
<me4oslav> snwh - circlesepcion on invisible :P
<snwh> easy to do in inkscape
<snwh> i thought of an infinity symbol for busy
<me4oslav> let's steal Skype's - tick on a grey circle and see what happens
<me4oslav> BTW, after those two are done (Dash in System Settings and messaging menu icons) mind mocking up a sound menu design, I have in on pen ana paper (better than the last ones you've seen), I just acolon@example.com.
<snwh> not a problem
<me4oslav> AWESOME. I will go to bed now (just to lie down and read some bizarre fiction), obviously I won't be able to sleep :D
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-26
<mpt> snwh, when you're back, I have some news about the Dash settings
<snwh> mpt, good news I hope :)
<mpt> snwh, do you remember yesterday how I asked you if you'd talked with didrocks?
<snwh> mpt, I do
<mpt> snwh, and do you remember how I said I wasn't involved in Unity directly?
<mpt> snwh, well, we had a bit of a mix-up
<mpt> snwh, pattoin here is a designer at Canonical who has been working on a quick fix for 12.10 for didrocks to implement.
<mpt> Yesterday and today.
<mpt> She didn't know about your work, and I didn't know about hers. :-]
<snwh> okay :)
<mpt> I showed her your work this morning, and we're interested in developing it further for 13.04
<snwh> That's awesome.
<mpt> Meanwhile, here's the design work pattoin has done for 12.10: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1wcFF2Kl156c_9qmD2fCsYzO4700vuJ4T3EJ1nN9wdU4/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2e54c4f8_2_10
<snwh> Very nice
<snwh> Privacy I would imagine is a more logical place to put it over the Appearance; it's not strictly an appearance setting or behaviour
<snwh> also, mpt, I did a couple things with messaging icons: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-ambiance.png & https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-radiance.png
<pattoin> snwh: Hi
<pattoin> snwh: I am Patricia, or pattoin in here
<snwh> pattoin, Hi, I'm Sam
<pattoin> mpt: has told me about you and the situation
<pattoin> snwh: thank you with your design help, it is great to meet you so we could discusse and work together
<snwh> pattoin, thanks & likewise :)
<snwh> I thought it was something within my abilities that I could try and contribute to the project.
<pattoin> snwh: yes, I have to design it quicly just yesterday and the reason why I include appeareance is because I did a quick user research and test and  some more people will change it in 'appereance'
<snwh> users are interesting folks
<pattoin> they were thinking about hiding ui
<pattoin> but the more people understand what it really means, then they will go for privacy
<snwh> I guess less familiar users will go for the former, whereas everyone else who somewhat understands it will pick privacy
<pattoin> snwh: indeed
<pattoin> anyway we can continue designing it, with your ideas for the next cycle and we have also some discussion to give a more relevant access to 'search results settings'
<pattoin> and also that the functionality of disable online content sources can be done in the dash UI itself
<pattoin> what do you think?
<snwh> I look forward to it :)
<pattoin> a lot of people when I did the small user test they thought they can just swith it off from the dash itself next to the title
<snwh> how would that be implemented?
<snwh> Since we already drag and drop to trash, perhaps a similar action as well.
<snwh> drag and drop lenses from the dash
<snwh> mpt, what if the messaging menu used the status icon and the envelope appeared as an overlay? like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon1.png
<mpt> snwh, it's quite difficult to tell that that envelope is an envelope
<mpt> the dot and the envelope are really fighting for space, in a way that they aren't if the roles are reversed
<snwh> but with the dot the envelope will only appear with a new message
<mpt> Remember, too, that a lot of the time -- possibly most of the time, once bug 1056457 is fixed -- there will be no dot
<mpt> because by default you'll have no chat accounts, therefore no chat status
<snwh> then it could just be the old envelope
<snwh> which could also be the offline/quit icon?
<mpt> An envelope that shrinks and moves whenever you go online?
<snwh> no envelope
<snwh> just the blue one
<snwh> as a "popup"
<snwh> overlay* on new message
<snwh> and only an envelope with no chat app or offline.
<mpt> You have new messages, therefore a blue envelope. You open the menu and change from Offline to Available. The blue envelope shuffles and shrinks to make way for the Available icon.
<mpt> Is that what you meant?
<snwh> this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon2.png
<snwh> then https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon1.png for a new message
<snwh> and https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon3.png for offline/no chat app
<snwh> the only time a double icon would occur would be a chat status + a new message
<snwh> is what i was thinking
<mpt> What would it look like if you were offline but had new messages?
<snwh> blue envelope
<mpt> So, the blue envelope would be shuffling and shrinking in the scenario I described
<mpt> That seems weird to me, since it wouldn't be the fact that you have new messages that was changing.
<snwh> i dont understand what you mean by "shuffling and shrinking"
<mpt> Changing from its full size, into an emblem perched at the top right of the green dot.
<snwh> okay
<snwh> what if a new "new message" emblem were created?
<mpt> That could solve the problem of the envelope being hard to recognize at small sizes.
<mpt> I don't know what the rest of the icon would look like if you had no chat accounts.
<snwh> could keep the white envelope
<snwh> and use the new emblem
<snwh> so it'll be all the chat icons, plus an envelope for no chat and a new message emblem across all
<snwh> a number badge probably would be too small
<mpt> snwh, perhaps the easiest way to visualize the change you're thinking of would be to sketch a replacement for the grid of icons at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#Title>.
<mpt> That way you could see all the possibilities at once, and the possible transitions involved.
<snwh> okay
<snwh> any thoughts on the alternate chat icons?
<mpt> They improve on the current ones in that they're the same visual weight. The drawback is that they're harder to distinguish, especially for people with color impairments.
<snwh> thats why there are symbols on the icons
<mpt> yes
<snwh> i mean i put symbols on them.
<snwh> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-ambiance.png
<snwh> i even colour tweaked the screenshots to see if an impairment would make the symbols indistinguishable
<snwh> mpt is the width of the indicator fixed?
<mpt> snwh, no, different menus have different widths (e.g. the battery icons are wider), but it's probably best if all the title icons for the same menu are the same width.
<mpt> That might involve adding/removing a little spacing
<snwh> can it fluxuate?
<mpt> It can, but as I said, it's probably best if it doesn't
<mpt> otherwise things would wobble
<mpt> (specially, menus to the left of that one)
<snwh> unless it was always furthest left
<snwh> but yea i agree
<snwh> i was trialing a two icon thing. and it just shrunk to fit in the indicator
<snwh> an icon with chat status icon + new mail icon @16x34px and just the chat icon at 16x16
<snwh> unless the mail icon was always present. and the indicator had two icons, is that possible?
<snwh> changing icons*
<snwh> mpt, may i suggest this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot1.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot2.png
<mpt> snwh, promising
<mpt> I like that it dramatically reduces the amount of blue
<mpt> (our blue is pretty fluorescent)
<snwh> it really is
<snwh> i had the mail icon there first, but thought to make it simpler
<mpt> On the other hand, it still has the wobble, though maybe that's a feature rather than a bug
<mpt> a slight animation to draw your attention
<snwh> exactly
<snwh> changes from 22px wide to 23
<snwh> if i remove a px from the right edge it wouldnt wobble
<snwh> but like you said: it adds slight animation
<snwh> mpt, critique? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot-ambiance.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot-radiance.png
<snwh> ..or sabdfl? :)
<sabdfl> snwh, don't like it not being an envelope
<sabdfl> we didn't have online state
<sabdfl> so just because we CAN add it for non-colour blind people
<sabdfl> doesn't mean we have to make the iconography cryptic
<sabdfl> please let's keep the basic envelope
<sabdfl> at most, open the envelope when it's in the "action" state
<sabdfl> and use the colour
<sabdfl> but
<sabdfl> "normal" (i.e. connected) should be plain mono white-ish
<sabdfl> i.e. do not show a colour when in the normal active state
<sabdfl> and just darken it slightly when NOT connected
<sabdfl> don't be garish
<sabdfl> i want my indicators plain when all is normal
<sabdfl> no colour by default
<sabdfl> ok?
<snwh> sabdfl, no problem just an idea.
<snwh> sabdfl, what is the plan for the icons?
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-28
<hellocatfood> Does anything ever happen in this channel?
<hellocatfood> I guess not
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-30
<dashua> Ambiance/Radiance buttons very close to all of the design mock ups --> http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/7lbcsp2p/GTKWidgetFactory_003.png
<dashua> Should I bother submitting a patch this late in the cycle?
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-01
<snwh> sorry, mpt I could never get the apport crashed-paper-plane to a satisfactory place.
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-02
<mpt> snwh, don't worry, crashes seldom happen in satisfactory places. ;-)
<snwh> mpt, touche :)
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-06
<mpt> katie, have you seen this? https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg03972.html
<mpt> oreneeshy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multichannel_television_sound#History
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-10
<snwh> this is a sadly quiet place :(
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-11
 * xnox you hear wind noise in the distance. Your options are: (a) look left (b) look right
<wellsb> katie_: In today's design clinic, somebody mentioned using the indented style for the cards container of the blackjack app.  Where can I find more information about this?
<katie_> hi wellsb
<katie_> wellsb, just finding rosie to help answer :)
<wellsb> katie_: Excellent.  Thanks
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-12
<clepto> Hello! I need someone to resize my app's icon to 64x64 for the contest :)
<clepto> If someone is willing to do my icon is this http://ubuntuone.com/7h7r7b3q1RgZ4iYd1Jlvut
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-17
<mpt> Hmmmm
<mpt> oreneeshy, when I start the phone for the first time (a.k.a. when I flash it), the first two words I ever see are "Right edge"
<mpt> because that's the first step of the tutorial
<mpt> Perhaps something like "Welcome" would be less abrupt? :-)
<oreneeshy> mpt: yea I hear welcome is a common greeting in england
<oreneeshy> mpt: talk to jouni he's the designer onboard
<mpt> ok
<mpt> Reported bug 1226526
<ubot5> bug 1226526 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "First words ever seen on new phone are "Right edge"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226526
<GuidoPallemans> any ubuntu touch designers here?
<snwh> i wonder if anyone in here knows anything about upcoming icon design guidelines for the touch ui?
<snwh> ;)
<GuidoPallemans> this channel is seriously quiet where can I discuss stuff with the design team better?
<GuidoPallemans> remember this guys? https://lh3.ggpht.com/-GsprtTxx95U/UdwAEdtE8fI/AAAAAAAAJ_4/bh-KuQN7ItQ/s1600/unlocscreen03A.png    ?    I implemented it: https://github.com/brambram/QML-Lock
<snwh> GuidoPallemans, you might want to go to #ubuntu-touch. this channel, yes, is too quiet
<snwh> and AFAIK there aren't many of the mobile designers here
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-22
<GuidoPallemans> how can I apply my app for the wednesday app design show?
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-24
<snwh> *tumbleweeds*
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-25
 * mpt throws a tumbleweed at snwh 
<mpt> Can anyone sell me a bucketful of ideas? I've run out.
<snwh> mpt, ideas for?
<mpt> snwh, for all intents and purposes. Just a kilogram would do.
<snwh> a toaster that has bluetooth/wifi so it'll notify your cell when your toast is done
<mpt> Lovely.
<mpt> snwh, could also be implemented as a smoke detector in your phone.
<xnox> mpt I have quad-color ubuntu branded pens. Do you have one already? cause I got some for you =)
<mpt> xnox, Ubuntu-branded?? Awesome. I haven't seen those.
<xnox> mpt: I shall be in the office sometime soon then =)
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-26
<mpt> katie, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccountPrivileges#Phone
<katie> mpt, thanks
<tkamppeter> mpt, mhall119, hi
<mhall119> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> mhall119, did you get my e-mail about print dialog design?
<mhall119> tkamppeter: no, would I?  It's not really my area
<mhall119> oh wait, from the 19th?
<tkamppeter> mhall119, yes.
<mhall119> yeah, I got that one
<tkamppeter> mhall119, who is in charge of UI design for Ubuntu Touch. Anyone of the people I have sent the mail to? Anyone in this channel?
<mpt> tkamppeter, yes I did
<mpt> tkamppeter, oreneeshy is
<tkamppeter> oreneeshy, hi
<mhall119> yeah, oren
<mhall119> tkamppeter: I did however notice that it required qt4, will it not work with qt5?
<tkamppeter> mhall119, the original author has written it with Qt4, and I have simply gotten it this way.
<tkamppeter> mhall119, the original author is willing to continue work on it (he has retired and therefore has more time now), perhaps we can ask him to port it to Qt5.
<tkamppeter> oreneeshy, I have sent you an e-mail about a mobile print client design acolon@example.com.
<tkamppeter> mhall119, WDYT about asking the original author to port his work to Qt5/Touch SDK?
<mhall119> tkamppeter: if we're going to use it in Touch they (phablet team) will probably like it to use qt5 like everything else
<mhall119> if it had a good separation between front and backend, we could replace the front-end widgets with Ubuntu SDK components
<mhall119> while I'm active in here, who's the design lead for the SDK components?
<tkamppeter> So the port Qt4 -> Qt5 would be already a good step forward, also taking into account that frontend and backend get well separated.
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> but again, only if we plan on using it, no point in asking him to do work that won't get used
<tkamppeter> mhall119, so on which channel do I find the Phablet team?
<mhall119> tkamppeter: #ubuntu-touch is the public channel
#ubuntu-design 2014-09-05
<mivoligo> hi all
<mivoligo> where can I report a bug about lack of design guidelines for Ubuntu touch icons?
#ubuntu-design 2014-09-18
<Estilanda> pauliu
#ubuntu-design 2015-09-03
<mpt> kemmko, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking#activity-indicator
#ubuntu-design 2015-09-07
<mpt> kemmko, bug 1447601
<ubot5> bug 1447601 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) ""Phone" app settings are oddly in System Settings" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447601
<kemmko> mpt:  cheers
<mpt> kemmko, whyyyy is bug 1485623 assigned to a designer at all? The layout is already shown in the wireframe
<ubot5> bug 1485623 in Ubuntu UX "Moderately long name not shown in address book card" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485623
<kemmko> mpt: ehmm, I am not sure if I understand your question
<mpt> kemmko, the bug report is that the name doesnât show up in full anywhere in the address book card. The wireframe shows that itâs supposed to show up in full next to the picture. Why does it need to wait for a designer?
<kemmko> mpt:  I don't see the solution posted or linked to the bug
<kemmko> mpt:  the corresponding visual designer is Rae
<mpt> kemmko, itâs the only link in the bug description.
<kemmko> mpt:  yes, to the UX spec
<kemmko> mpt:  not the visual design screen though
<mpt> Why does it it need a visual design?
<kemmko> mpt:  because it differs from the wireframes and the visuals are final
<kemmko> mpt:  plus the visual design has the correct GU sizes and dimentions
<kemmko> mpt:  since the contact card is a custom made layout it is needed
<kemmko> mpt:  also, until it is implemented we can't say "fix resleased"
<mpt> I wasnât suggesting that it should be marked Fix Released
<kemmko> mpt:  soâ¦obviously the final solution is not linked here
<kemmko> mpt:  until this is done the bug is triaged
<mpt> Usually wireframes are more up-to-date than mockups are
 * mpt hunts
<kemmko> mpt:  usually they are but since I am working on this project I can assure you they are not
<mpt> ok :-)
<mpt> kemmko, the current mockup shows the full name next to the icon too: https://goo.gl/5uqXB9
<mpt> and it shows font size and spacing
<kemmko> mpt:  yes
#ubuntu-design 2016-09-06
<Krands> hello

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