#upstart 2006-10-01 <cfraz89> hi, i'm having a problem in edgy where fsck is hanging, making my computer unable to boot <cfraz89> i think it has something to do with upstart <cfraz89> does anyone know how to disable upstart in edgy? <Md> you can't <cfraz89> you can't? <cfraz89> it isnt possible anymore to use sysvinit? <Md> I don't think so <cfraz89> ok, thanks <matti_> hi <matti_> I have some wierd problems with nfs volumes that I want to mount on boot, could that be upsstarts fault? <wasabi> Depends what the problem is. <wasabi> Without knowing that, you're just asking for a guess. <matti_> well I had ubuntu dapper before and switched to edgy, does upstart treat remote and local filesystems different or isn't uipstart involved into this process <matti_> , wasabi <wasabi> upstart isn't involved. <wasabi> It still just runs the rc scripts, in the same order. <matti_> okay thanks <wasabi> So, it's sorta involved. ;) <johnnybuoy> how do I use the status, start ans stop commands? <johnnybuoy> i do status powernowd, but itsays id doesn't know it.. <johnnybuoy> okok! topic, I'll check whatever is in there first.. <_ion> powernowd doesn't install an upstart job. It still installs an init.d script. <_ion> That is the case with most packages currently. #upstart 2006-10-02 <Admiral_Chicago> is there a specific page I can visit so I can learn more about ReadAhead and more specific stuff about upstart/teardown <Admiral_Chicago> i have the idea of how they work, i would like more of the tech details #upstart 2006-10-03 * x4NothinKx is back <_ion> Thanks a lot for the information. I really appreciate that. <x4NothinKx> :) <kalium1> hi <kalium1> need help from a staffer #upstart 2006-10-04 <johnnybuoy> does anyone know about a good documentation for upstart? <Seveas> johnnybuoy, the source code ;) <johnnybuoy> :D <johnnybuoy> thanks! !alindeman:*! Hi all. A rotation server just hiccuped; we're looking into it <Keybuk> http://enterprise.linux.com/enterprise/06/09/18/1623244.shtml * ..[topic/#upstart:Keybuk] : Upstart 0.2.7 | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/doc/getting-started.html | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstartDesignChanges | irc logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | http://www.lugradio.org/episodes/61 | http://enterprise.linux.com/enterprise/06/09/18/1623244.shtml <thom> Keybuk: you sly dog, sneaking gratuitous self-agrandisement onto linux.com ;-) <smlgb1> Hi there. Did anybody of you try to install upstart on gentoo yet? <Keybuk> smlgb1: I believe there have been several attempts, at least one of which was successful <Keybuk> thom: and getting paid for it, too ;) <smlgb1> is there some online resource to check it out? I am trying for over a day now, but i cannot get it to do the right thing... <thom> Keybuk: you can buy me a beer at uds then <Keybuk> heh <Keybuk> thom: you're definitely coming? <Keybuk> cool <Keybuk> smlgb1: no idea, I don't know if anyone's written it down yet <smlgb1> ok, thanks. gotta keep trying. <wasabi_> Keybuk: sponsorship accepted. ;0 <wasabi_> Yay for me! <wasabi_> I'm going to start writing up a ton of various use cases of complicated upstart event stuff, and start blowing out flow charts. <Keybuk> wasabi_: yeah, I saw a few weeks ago <Keybuk> I guess the mails finally went out then <wasabi_> Yeah. <wasabi_> whiprush sent in another recommendation because I'll be working on some directory integration stuff too <wasabi_> He didn't know you already had. <madduck> Keybuk: can you do s@/boot/grub/menu.lst@& (or if using grub2 - /boot/grub/grub.cfg)@ in the README? <madduck> bounce from a user forthcoming <Keybuk> madduck: err, -v ? <madduck> Keybuk: yeah, this is 0.1.1 <madduck> Keybuk: if it does not apply anymore, all the better <Keybuk> I didn't understand the sed <Keybuk> and yeah, there's no README.Debian anymore in 0.2+ <Keybuk> I suspect Debian will want to keep it though, unless you install upstart as /sbin/init <madduck> kinda. i am not maintainer anymore, it's up to mbiebl now. :) <mbiebl> Keybuk: 0.2.7 is currently in NEW again because of the new binary packages. <Keybuk> oh right, fair enough <mbiebl> It also replaces /sbin/init. <Keybuk> how did you package it? ubuntu-style? <Keybuk> cool <Keybuk> shiny <mbiebl> It's based on your packages. <mbiebl> I want to keep it as close as possible. <mbiebl> sysvinit has been split up and other packages which still depedended on sysvinit have mostly been fixed. <Keybuk> could you use -Xdebian1 in your revisions, not just -1 though <madduck> yeah, this was pretty painless. i meant to blog about the whole process. <mbiebl> (bluez-utils being the most important one which still remains) <Keybuk> otherwise I'll have to blacklist it from the Ubuntu sync/merge process <Keybuk> which won't do either of us favours <madduck> Keybuk: why not try to stay in sync? <Keybuk> I don't mind if they don't differ <madduck> mbiebl: ? <mbiebl> Good question, still debian/control has to differ because of the different replaces. <madduck> mbiebl: then i guess it should really be -Xdebian1 <mbiebl> Also pere chose to name sysvutils sysvinit-utils. <madduck> i think ubuntu will follow this choice of name, right Keybuk ? <Keybuk> we will in edgy+1, yeah <Keybuk> obviously we're frozen now <mbiebl> Keybuk: I already thought about naming them -Xdebian1. But I don't always copy debian/ on a new release of the Ubuntu package. <mbiebl> I copied them for 0.2.5 and then only synced in the necessary changes. <Keybuk> the main problem is if you, for what ever reason, race ahead of us <Keybuk> you do 0.3.0-1, so do we, but they differ <Keybuk> and you need to fix something, and do 0.3.0-2 <Keybuk> Debian now has a higher version than Ubuntu, so our sync process will try and override our version with yours <Keybuk> which would be bad <Keybuk> the sync process recognises XubuntuY and XdebianY <mbiebl> Hm, right. <Keybuk> the former as an "Ubuntu patched version of a Debian-maintained package" <Keybuk> and the latter as a "Debian patched version of an Ubuntu-maintained package" <Keybuk> so it'd know not to override our version with a XdebianY <mbiebl> I just found it odd to name them -Xdebian1 also if they are not directly based on the corresponding Ubuntu version. <Keybuk> without that, I'd need to blacklist upstart from the sync process to avoid us suddenly ending up with the debian packages <Keybuk> name them -0debian1 then? <Keybuk> we use that in Ubuntu when we don't base things on the Debian version <Keybuk> it's not important though, if you don't want to use patches/merge.ubuntu.com etc. <Keybuk> or get diffs from the PTS <mbiebl> How do you usually handle syncs between Debian/Ubuntu? <mbiebl> Do you copy the Debian changelog? <mbiebl> Even if the packages evolve differently for some time. <Keybuk> if we branch the package, we add our entries to the top of the changelog <Keybuk> so you see -2ubuntu2, -2ubuntu1, -2, -1 etc. <Keybuk> then if we merge in Debian again, we add the new Debian at the top <Keybuk> (and a ubuntu1 for the merge) <Keybuk> -3ubuntu1, -3, -2ubuntu2, -2ubuntu1, -2, -1 <Keybuk> if we abandon our patches, we sync the Debian version and drop the changelog diff <mbiebl> Ok, then I'll try to adopt a corresponding versioning scheme with -XdebianY for the Debian package. <Keybuk> if not, don't worry too much :) <Keybuk> I'm the guy that does the sync/merge stuff, so I'd quickly hit a button if I saw upstart in there ;) <mbiebl> Keybuk: The only issues I currently have with upstart on Debian is, that console-setup/console-tools don't work properly during boot up. <mbiebl> I know that you had the same problems on Edgy already, so maybe you could give me some pointers how you fixed that. <Keybuk> "don't work properly" ? <mbiebl> Font and keyboard are not setup during bootup. <Keybuk> with usplash? <mbiebl> Without. <Keybuk> Debian uses setupcon? <mbiebl> I can, it's optionally. <mbiebl> s/I/It/ <Keybuk> does adding "console output" to rcS/rc2 help? <Keybuk> it "just works" here, don't really know much about it <Keybuk> I know Kamion spent ages transitioning us to setupcon <Keybuk> I assumed Debian had done the same before, he tends to prefer to keep us matched to Debian <mbiebl> I'll check that. I just know, that /etc/init.d/console-setup works when run from sysvinit, but not from upstart. <Keybuk> assuming you just copied the ubuntu jobs, you've probably got a silent startup with no console output <mbiebl> Right. <Keybuk> if whatever sets the console up just uses fd 0/1/2, then it won't do anything <mbiebl> Ah, so why does it work on Ubuntu then? It also uses the silent startup. <mbiebl> Have the changed the init scripts/setupcon? <Keybuk> we just call "setupcon -k --force" <Keybuk> it seems to dtrt here <Keybuk> oh, the -k is just if usplash is running <Keybuk> anyway, gym time, gotta run !Rez:*! Hi all! You may notice some bots around the net attempting to exploit a bug in some routers (whereby they crash on a malformed DCC SEND string). We're doing our best to mitigate the visibility of these bots, but if you're still being affected (i.e., disconnected) by them, please consider connecting to freenode on a non-IRC port, such as 8001. Thanks! #upstart 2006-10-05 <rich3krow> hi, upstartians. Has the subject of addressing the rpm package "initscripts" cropped up somewhere? I'd be happy to have a pointer to it. <rich3krow> or the subject of upstart on say fedora core 5? <Md> I do not remember reading anything about upstart and RPM-based distributions <Md> except that so far the red hat people are still looking at upstart and waiting to see if it will be adopted by others or crash and burn <rich3krow> I expect a lot of people are doing that. <rich3krow> What would be great is to have a parallel implementation so one could choose to do either. Say, "init 7" or "init 8" or "init 9" would be the upstart equivalent of inits 1, 3, and 5 <rich3krow> i believe [789] are unused <rich3krow> much like if your kernel crashes, grub will let you use a former kernel, replete with its modules <rich3krow> well, i really need to read an in-depth doc and/or implementation, guess I should (1) d/l 6.10 of Ubuntu (I saw my first Ubuntu billboard Sunday! Going north on 101 toward SF) and (2) inspect if <rich3krow> it <Luna-Tick> Hello all. I'm looking at my bootchart and seem to have 2 x 5secs where the processor and disk do absolutely nothing. It seems that this could be to do with fsck. A copy of my bootchart can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellInspiron510m?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=bootchart-edgy-20060920-7.png <Luna-Tick> I'm running Edgy Beta <Keybuk> good morning <uhmmm> so.. is this upstart likely to change our linux lives? <Keybuk> upstart is like a change of toothpaste <Keybuk> the benefit is feeling fresher throughout the day <uhmmm> great answer <uhmmm> now I know what to expect from it <Keybuk> heh, could you be more specific with your question? <Keybuk> it's sufficiently broad that it's difficult to answer <Keybuk> the change for users are that their system is a little more flexible to their needs <Keybuk> the change for developers is that it's much easier to make the system more flexible <gebi> hi all :) <gebi> i've a question regarding upstart, whats the intended mechanism in upstart to preserve starting services <_ion> Preserve? <gebi> e.g just because a server has a graka i don't won't the x server to be started <gebi> haven't read about that in the upstart doku <gebi> _ion: on preserve is wrong, 'keep from starting' would be better, sorry <_ion> 1) Don't install X to a server, 2) i proposed a "disabled" stanza to the job description syntax, but i think Keybuk has something better in mind. <gebi> hmm... <gebi> disable in the job description would really be suboptimal, just look at the (imho) mess with /etc/defaults/<service> (disable=yes) and such things <gebi> _ion: would upstart support different "profiles"? (where profiles mean something like a runleve) <gebi> suppose a user only want consolen login, or console + network access, but no daemons started (or only gpm and things needed to work with console) and ssh <Keybuk> these are all things we're still designing <Keybuk> what do you think would work best? <gebi> thats a bit complicated in a event based system imho, because what if a user is in "consolen mode" but now want to start into "graphic mode" (without reloading the graphic card modules) <gebi> idea: every so called profile consists of a file with event filters, if an event gets filtered by the rules of the profile it is saved by upstart und replayed if the user decided to switch to another profile (same for the new profile, if the event is also filtered in the new profile it is saved again) <gebi> but this aproach needs strict definitions which events are supposed do what, and imho also something like virtual events <_ion> What is a virtual event?' <gebi> e.g network daemons, pretty any network daemon has the same requirements (the network should be present and useable + maybe a loaded firewall), so to repetly define all such things is waste of time and divert the system because a few scripts won't get it right <gebi> a virtual event would something like: daemons-up which depends on a network card beeing useable + firewall loaded, this is the main event every daemon should depend on <gebi> the main point, for event filters to be usefull in this case you need one event every daemon depends on <gebi> another "problem" where the event based system simply doesn't work (imho) is if the user want's to start a specific daemon, upstart needs to figure out the right dependencies and if they are not satisfied needs to print why exactly the daemon can't be started <Keybuk> job "dependencies" are an interesting exercise <Keybuk> do you just depend on another job <Keybuk> or should you be able to say "apache can't start until a network card is up" <gebi> the second one, solaris is the best example in this respect (imho) <gebi> it might be possibel to use events as dependencies but this needs a more formal description on what type of events and what arguments a service depends (and no coding of this dependencies into a code section) <rich3krow> "Apache can't start until a network card is up" but but but <rich3krow> what if I only want to use apache for local web development and I only want to use +1-473-444-0812? <rich3krow> Oh, Keybuk has gone to bed <_ion> That's just a matter of configuration. <_ion> In that case the network interface you want apache to wait for would be 'lo'. :-) <rich3krow> hm, I don't even know how lo is brought up, I should dig a little. * x4NothinKx wants to support the upstart-project <rich3krow> Well, ok, lo comes up in the same way any interface comes up. In the redhat scheme /etc/initd/network looks through files /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts, and ifcfg-lo is one of them, and it has ONBOOT=yes #upstart 2006-10-06 <rowanjl> I've got a question, I'm not familiar with how Linux boots so be warned: <rowanjl> What controls the output during the boot? <Keybuk> various different pieces <rowanjl> mm <Keybuk> obviously init is initially responsible for setting stdout of the scripts it runs <rowanjl> yeah <Keybuk> the scripts are then responsible for actually outputting stuff <Keybuk> often they use the LSB functions for that <Keybuk> and those functions may know that a graphical splash screen is running <rowanjl> Which gives it the uniform look? <rowanjl> I mean <Keybuk> or that the script's stdout is not /dev/console, so write to /dev/console explicitly <Keybuk> the LSB functions <rowanjl> Item name... [OK|FAILED|... <Keybuk> /lib/lsb/init-functions <rowanjl> hmm <Keybuk> often overriden by /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh <rowanjl> You ever notice how the image overlay often disappears to early? <Keybuk> yes, usplash times out if it doesn't receive something in a certain time period <rowanjl> ahh, I see <rowanjl> I guess that makes sense, untill my mother uses it ;) <rowanjl> She was scared the first time that happened... pretty sad <Keybuk> yeah <Keybuk> mostly it's when your disk gets checked that it disappears <Keybuk> so you can see the disk check output underneath <rowanjl> On my computer it happens while X is loading <rowanjl> Or just before <Keybuk> yeah, there's a brief blank before it switches to X <Keybuk> has to be, as it has to clear up the console <Keybuk> sadly the Linux VT layer sucks <Keybuk> it's not possible to change VT settings unless it's the current VT <rowanjl> Hmm <Md> Keybuk: are you sure? I remember using e.g. setleds ... < /dev/tty2 <rowanjl> I worry about these things sometimes, how can they be polished... <rowanjl> There's all this fuss about Linux for Desktops, but is that really what we need? <rowanjl> A desktop OS is better off booting right into its graphical layer <Keybuk> Md: some bits work, most don't -- see setupcon for some hacks <Keybuk> we can't change the console font and keymap while usplash is running without chvt'ing to a text screen <Keybuk> rowanjl: why? no other desktop OS boots directly into graphical <rowanjl> No major ones <rowanjl> ;) <Keybuk> name one <rowanjl> Syllable <Keybuk> at what point does it start the full graphical? <Keybuk> an x86 doesn't boot into graphical <Keybuk> so at some point, you have to do a flip <rowanjl> No your right, but it IS different to Linux <rowanjl> because it was never indented to have a console <Keybuk> the Linux console is just hysterical <rowanjl> pardon? :/ <Keybuk> we could get rid of it easily, and just start X on the framebuffer on the first VT, etc. <Keybuk> sorry, historical ;) <rowanjl> heh <rowanjl> I know I'd miss the console, but I guess a real desktop Linux variant would replace it <Keybuk> there isn't anything to gain from getting rid of t <Keybuk> sure, it makes you feel fluffy, but there's no improvement <Keybuk> and it means that there's no quick escape to a login prompt when you break X :) <rowanjl> true :P <rowanjl> but it also means people will pay us to fix their Linux boxes :P <Keybuk> we have to have a text VT when we boot, because that's what the host architecture gives us <rowanjl> You could do what Windows does, have a Safe Boot option. <Keybuk> sure, we can have all that <Keybuk> but there's still no reason to get rid of a text console <rowanjl> Most of us do now anyhow <rowanjl> Well, there is, Users like polish, textmode isn't polished <Keybuk> but users won't even know it's there <rowanjl> but there are probably better ways to hide it <Keybuk> "hide" ? <rowanjl> hide the console <Keybuk> why does it need to be hidden? <rowanjl> like I was saying before, it is often visible when it doesn't really need to be <rowanjl> because end users are not geeks. <Keybuk> at the moment, it does need to be visible at those moments <Keybuk> we slowly, but surely, fix those <rowanjl> yeah <Keybuk> ideally when X starts, the splash screen would just be replaced by X <rowanjl> yep <Keybuk> but we can't do that right now, because we can't reset the console underneath <Keybuk> that's a code limitation, that should be fixable in the long term <rowanjl> mm * rowanjl remembers Red Hat 5.2 booting... <rowanjl> now that was pretty bad <rowanjl> everythings come a long way since * Keybuk just made sure that there was a spec for that for uds-mv #upstart 2006-10-07 <SXan> Howdy <SXan> Does anybody here know how to write a service rule where more than one event is required to bring a service up? I can find no documentation on this. !alindeman:*! Hi all. One of our servers seems to be having trouble; we're going to pull it from rotation pending further information #upstart 2006-10-08 <Zoffix> Hi, I've heard that the reason I can't find /etc/inittab is because I have Upstart, how can I make my system boot in text mode as oposed to graphical mode? #upstart 2006-10-09 <Rapadura> Hello People, UpStart Works on the Slackware? <Keybuk> it should do [jenda(n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda)] help #upstart 2006-10-10 <maro_> Keybuk: regarding the script syntax, have you considered using a make-like syntax instead? <thom> oh please no <Keybuk> maro_: I think I share thom's response here ;) <Keybuk> DEPENDENCIES := foo <Keybuk> DEPENDENCIES += bar <Keybuk> start33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99ab <Keybuk> some script <thom> i couldn't imagine anything more hideous, personally. but you could have some fun <Keybuk> .EXEC: /sbin/some --daemon <Keybuk> actually, that'd be illegal, you'd need \t before "some script" :) <Keybuk> thom: X. M. L. <thom> vpath %.event \ /etc/event.d/ ; %.event: ... <thom> Keybuk: true <maro_> Keybuk: no, that wasn't what I meant :) <maro_> it was only for the "start script"/"end script" stanza <Keybuk> maro_: elaborate <maro_> I was initially confused with the "start script" wording since I thought it meant "start of script" (versus "before running the command") <maro_> Keybuk: http://borkware.net/~mark/upstart-service.txt <maro_> (refresh) <Keybuk> the trouble there is the requirement for indentation and physical tabs <maro_> python fans will love it, though ;) <maro_> my guess is that most distros/users will be consistent in their indentation anyway, and enforcing it will make 3rd party supplied event scripts more consistent <maro_> anyway, that's just my POV, you're the code monkey :) <maro_> btw, the 'while' thing is mainly to avoid "start on this-up", "stop on this-down" <_ion> I'm not very fond of the pythonish way of indentation. <thom> can we please not have a pointless indentation debate <maro_> yeah :) <thom> the problem with make like indentation is that some poor user will always cock it up and then get really, _really_ confused <maro_> my main liking about it is that it's more human/language-friendly to use a colon, and it saves a line for each script - screw the indentation :) <maro_> (the only argument I can see for that is that the people who edit event scripts are likely to already be familiar with make syntax) <thom> maro_: i don't think that's particularly likely; think about the poor sysadmin who needs to knock up an event script quickly <maro_> what about the poor sysadmin that though "start script" was the syntax for beginning any script block since it's stopped with "end script"? (e.g. me ;)) <Keybuk> there's a more interesting problem that "start script" implies the script should start the daemon <maro_> anyway, screw the make syntax part, what do you think about "while"/"when"? <Keybuk> it's planned to be renamed to pre-start and post-start anyway, which should make things clearer <maro_> Keybuk: true :) <Keybuk> while/when ? <maro_> Keybuk: the first non-commented line in the file <maro_> also allowing "functions" to be either script blocks or binaries ("run" in that file) <Keybuk> "while X is Y" doesn't make sense ... events are one-shot occurrences <maro_> Keybuk: hal would run "while dbus is running" <maro_> i.e. respawn if it dies, and stop when dbus is no longer running <Keybuk> what is "dbus" in this context? <maro_> system bus is available :) <Keybuk> but what is that? <Keybuk> it's not an event <maro_> the start/stop of it is, but yeah, point taken <Keybuk> start on job-started dbus <Keybuk> stop on job-stopped dbus <Keybuk> start on job-failed self <Keybuk> accomplishes much the same thing <Keybuk> though not quite, interestingly <maro_> and which one is nicer to read/understand? :) <Keybuk> maro_: I'd say yours is easier to read, but mine is easier to understand <maro_> I really like the "start on job-failed self" thing instead of exec/respawn :) <x4NothinKx> hi <x4NothinKx> is mahangu there? <maro_> how does "when storage is added" look like? <maro_> "on storage-added"? <Keybuk> define "added" <Keybuk> you have block-device-added, or path-mounted, etc. <Keybuk> depending what you name those events <maro_> that's set by the storage event (and could be anything) <maro_> are all those files in /etc/event.d? :/ <_ion> Huh? <Keybuk> no, those are events <maro_> ah, right, "arbitrary strings" - I need coffee :) <x4NothinKx> could someone tell me when mahangu is regular in the channel? <Keybuk> also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstartDesignChanges <Keybuk> that details where we're thinking of going with them <x4NothinKx> i want to do the documentation and german translation for upstart <maro_> looking at it, thanks :) <Keybuk> x4NothinKx: https://launchpad.net/products/upstart/main/+pots/upstart/de/+translate <maro_> Keybuk: btw, I noticed that initctl list doesn't remove moved files <maro_> (in current upstart, obviously) <maro_> s/moved/re&/ <Keybuk> right <Keybuk> known bug <maro_> ok, as long as it's considered a bug :) <Keybuk> or moved files, actually ;) <maro_> or both :) <Keybuk> yup, it's actually just a lack of implementation <Keybuk> e.g. should a job be stopped if you remove its file? :) <maro_> hmm, good question <maro_> I'll avoid thinking about that, might get a headache <_ion> IMO definitely yes (unless it's only renamed) <maro_> _ion: in which case... should it be restarted? <_ion> I don't see a reason to restart it. <maro_> nah, true, initctl should just list the new name <_ion> Just change the job's name in memory. <Keybuk> they're not restarted when modified <Keybuk> so in theory they probably shouldn't be when renamed <_ion> Yep. <maro_> agree completely <maro_> I'd hate to upgrade initscripts if they were ;) <maro_> Keybuk: I also get a ton of hal noise on my console even when using "console null" - I guess hal's helpers are to blame? <Keybuk> yes <maro_> heh, hal just had pid 666, wonder why <_ion> Because it's an integer between 2 and kernel.pid_max <Artanicus> heh <x4NothinKx> i do the translation now <x4NothinKx> but i think rosetta is not good <x4NothinKx> its very difficult to find matching vocabulary <x4NothinKx> because the most words are without a context <x4NothinKx> thats a puzzle <Keybuk> I'm afraid I know little about translation, or the difficulty involved <x4NothinKx> some words should be kept in german, like "killed" or so. But some should'nt. I need to test the translation intensively. #upstart 2006-10-11 * Keybuk makes bzr upstart build again <jams> any idea when the website will return? <jams> oops wrong channel #upstart 2006-10-12 <Keybuk> mbiebl: did my bug reply make sense, btw? <mbiebl> Yes, I used the pristine tarball. <Keybuk> yeah, I decided that having logd parse /proc/cmdline was ill-advised <Keybuk> and once I worked that out, your behaviour was obvious <Keybuk> in the "no initrd, but quiet on command-line" variant, it couldn't read /proc/cmdline on start, so failed to chatty <mbiebl> You said, it's already fixed in the bzr branch? <Keybuk> yeah <Keybuk> I backed it out of bzr at the same time I backed it out of the ubuntu package <mbiebl> Maybe I'll give it a try then today ;-) <mbiebl> See if it works <mbiebl> Do you schedule the 0.3 release after edgy? <Keybuk> haven't got a planned release time for 0.3.0 yet <Keybuk> probably before edgy releases <Keybuk> but it won't go into edgy * Keybuk has yet to decide what 0.3.0 will include <Keybuk> I had planned that it would use new IPC code <Keybuk> but I'm tempted to release it earlier with just the new libnih <_ion> Perhaps the file deletion patch could be included without the "disabled stanza" part? <Keybuk> _ion: I wasn't completely convinced by the implementation of that patch <Keybuk> I had meant to chat to you about it, but that got lost somewhere in the fog of my brain :) <Keybuk> looking at it again, I think it was just the disabled stuff that looked wrong <Keybuk> (in particular, where the code was -- it made more sense to check for disabled only when entering the JOB_RUNNING state, then multiple checks elsewhere) <_ion> Another idea i had was creating one more goal, JOB_DELETE, and the state JOB_DELETING and let job_change_state handle the deletion completely. I haven't taken a look at the code recently, but i think that would remove the need for checks all over the place. <_ion> Would that make sense? <Keybuk> it may make sense, I'm not sure yet <Keybuk> I haven't fully understood the changes we've talked about to the state system yet #upstart 2006-10-13 <GarBage> /etc/rc.local is not run, why? <johnnybuoy> anyone running mysql-server on edgy? <johnnybuoy> I'm wondering if what I get is an ustart bug... <johnnybuoy> anyone running mysql-server on edgy? <johnnybuoy> I'm wondering if what I get is an ustart bug... #upstart 2006-10-14 <dantje> Hi, the example-jobs.tar.gz in getting-started.html is broken. <dantje> i.e. the goes nowhere #upstart 2006-10-16 !alindeman:*! Regional server split. We're looking at it #upstart 2006-10-17 <Keybuk> mbiebl: did your upstart packages never make it through Debian NEW? <mbiebl> Yes, they were rejected because the Conflicted with sysvinit. <Keybuk> interesting... <Keybuk> who rejected them? <Keybuk> Random-J? <mbiebl> jvw <Keybuk> *nods* <mbiebl> It's because sysvinit is essential. <Md> mbiebl: will you use diversions then? <Keybuk> arguably, sysvinit should not be Essential <mbiebl> Md, yes I'll use that for the meantime and target experimental first. <Md> be prepared for a world of pain. m-i-t was not fun... <mbiebl> Keybuk: Yes, but this won't change for etch. <mbiebl> Md: I don't like this idea either. <mbiebl> On the other hand that seems to be the only way to get upstart into the archive now. <Keybuk> mbiebl: you targetted it to experimental, yes? <mbiebl> The one that got rejected? No, it was for unstable. <Keybuk> ahh <Keybuk> if it were experimental, it may have got through <Keybuk> though one of jvw's comments amuses me <mbiebl> Propably. <mbiebl> which one? <Keybuk> - Being not yet an init replacement it's also of limited use yet, <mbiebl> This was a misunderstanding of jvw. He though upstart installed the init binary as /sbin/init and so was not a "drop-in" replacement, yet. <mbiebl> s#/sbin/init#/sbin/upstart# <Keybuk> so he rejected it coming AND going? <Keybuk> he rejected it for not replacing /sbin/init and for replacing it? :p <mbiebl> The main point was, that upstart conflicted with sysvinit, which is essential and that's not allowed by policy. <Keybuk> heh <Keybuk> so is it Debian policy that they will never allow sysvinit to be replaced? <Md> not in etch, and in etch+1 it may still be hard <mbiebl> As long as the essential tag is not removed from sysvinit, yes. <mbiebl> I made a proposal, how we could deal with this by introducing a new base package called "init" <mbiebl> which is essential and depends on "sysvinit | init-system". <mbiebl> This package would be essential and the essential flag from sysvinit would be removed. * ..[topic/#upstart:Keybuk] : Upstart 0.3.0 | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/doc/getting-started.html | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstartDesignChanges | irc logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | http://www.lugradio.org/episodes/61 | http://enterprise.linux.com/enterprise/06/09/18/1623244.shtml <mbiebl> Other sysvinit replacements (like upstart, runit etc.) could then add a Conflicts/Replaces/Provides: init-system. <mbiebl> I hope to get that done for etch+1. <Keybuk> the interesting trick will be complying with the invoke-rc.d/update-rc.d policy :) <mbiebl> Yes, the "init" package would provide invoke-rc.d/update-rc.d as mere wrappers. <Keybuk> but how do they work in upstart? <mbiebl> The init systems would install the actual implementation. <Keybuk> "stop 0 23" doesn't mean much <Keybuk> anyway, dinner, bbl <mbiebl> Md, I have asked jvw if he'd accept an upstart package in experimental which does not use diversions but Conflicts/Replaces: sysvinit. <mbiebl> He hasn't answered yet. <mbiebl> Depending on his answer I'll decide to use diversions or not. <Md> cool <Md> aw <Md> oops <maro_> is my setup screwed or is initctl list supposed to look like this? ;) http://borkware.net/~mark/initctl_list.txt <maro_> (0.2.7 looks fine) <mbiebl> maro_: I noticed the same. <mbiebl> Maybe you just file a bug. #upstart 2006-10-19 !LoRez:*! Apologies for the huge netsplits. Our .eu hub has decided to drop off the face of the earth. I've routed around it for now. Thanks for using freenode! * johnnybuoy is off * johnnybuoy|away is on * johnnybuoy|away is off * johnnybuoy is off * johnnybuoy is on * johnnybuoy is off * johnnybuoy is on * johnnybuoy is off * johnnybuoy|awa- is off * Keybuk wondered what that smell was * johnnybuoy is on <_ion> Sigh, away nicks. <_ion> And flooding the channel with "is on, is off" messages. <_ion> johnnybuoy: I would really appreciate you turning off the "is on, iss off" spam and away nicks. <johnnybuoy> I have, now <johnnybuoy> sorry for that <_ion> Thanks a lot. <johnnybuoy> I know every channel I was logged onto wants my skin... <johnnybuoy> and I can understande that... <_ion> IRC has an "away" feature. Whoever is interested of your away status can /whois you, or add you to her notify list. <johnnybuoy_> okay, I think I have disabled that sux thing now <johnnybuoy_> _ion| as I have to everyone, I say sorry! <johnnybuoy_> I have enerved many many ppl... <johnnybuoy_> :( <_ion> The actual away feature never sends anything to any channel. I recommend using that. <johnnybuoy_> yes <johnnybuoy_> _ion| I don't really ned to use it, right <johnnybuoy_> is this the idle thing? <Keybuk> *sigh* people still use dircproxy <Keybuk> heh <Keybuk> trivia for amusement value ... <Keybuk> upstart uses the dircproxy networking layer to communicate with initctl <johnnybuoy_> heh <_ion> johnnybuoy: Let's not continue this discussion on this channel, it's offtopic. The command is 'away': /away message when you leave and /away without parameters when you come back. dircproxy, which you seem to be using, probably supports setting that automatically based on whether you're connected. <johnnybuoy_> wtf? <johnnybuoy_> :D <johnnybuoy_> okay <johnnybuoy_> thx <johnnybuoy_> upstart uses the dircproxy networking layer to communicate with initctl <-- wtf? :D <Keybuk> johnnybuoy: it's true <Keybuk> modified after five years of experience, of course <Keybuk> but I see no point throwing away something that worked <Keybuk> I got it reasonably right back then <Keybuk> and it got genericified into libnih <johnnybuoy> Keybuk| wow, that's amazing. <johnnybuoy> is dircproxy in any way special? <Keybuk> "special" ? <johnnybuoy> is it still doing it? <Keybuk> not sure I understand what you mean? <johnnybuoy> well, I guess if you included some messaging code from it to upstart it must have something "specual" .. <Keybuk> not particularly <Keybuk> I just wrote it, that's all <Keybuk> so when I needed async networking code for upstart, there was no point writing it *again* <Keybuk> I already had the code <Artanicus> theres only one cure for away nicks, ignore d: #upstart 2006-10-20 <zenlinuxNH> The example jobs tarball at http://upstart.ubuntu.com/download/example-jobs.tar.gz is missing from the web site. <zenlinuxNH> On this page: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/doc/getting-started.html <maro_> I'm wondering how "one job at a time" will work in scenarios where a second event happen before the first one has been processed (say, an usb hub with a couple of disks is plugged in) <maro_> bah, missed the "Events will no longer share a namespace with jobs" part og DesignChanges #upstart 2006-10-21 <rmcc316> i literally just heard out about upstart a few minutes ago. is there any work w/ the redhat/suse side of the linux world? -ChanServ(acolon@example.com.)- [#ubuntu-server] Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support) -ChanServ(acolon@example.com.)- [#ubuntu] Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there -ChanServ(acolon@example.com.)- [#ubuntu-server] Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support) -ChanServ(acolon@example.com.)- [#ubuntu] Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there <maro_> is it just my setup or is initctl really broken in 0.3.0? <maro_> I have a respawning job, and initctl stop doesn't seem to have any effect <maro_> initctl status doesn't show anything <maro_> finally got it stopped by changing the config to "stop on foobar" and emitting that event #upstart 2006-10-22 * netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net !LoRez:*! Hi fellow freenoders! I'm about to do some _minor_ rehubbing of a couple of smaller servers. Affected users is < 400. !RichiH:*! If you are interested in history, come and visit ##history, the history and humanities channel for the Freenode network. Features daily 'This Day in History' factoids (in the /topic) and more great things coming... quiz, wikipedia lookup etc.! #upstart 2006-10-23 <Luna-Tick> Hi all. I filed https://launchpad.net/bugs/67301 about some strange hanging that has started happening for me on boot. I think that it belongs where I filed it, but I was hoping someone here could check that it wasn't meant to be filed against upstart instead. <Luna-Tick> ... Well, thanks for your help. Ciao <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <agent> does anyone know what exact command finds out when is the appropriate time to do a fsck on boot? <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, that's in your fs properties <johnnybuoy|gento> you can check it with e2fstune <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, 'man e2fstune' <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, you're using ext3, right? <agent> yes, thank ypu <agent> err you :) <johnnybuoy|gento> np <agent> errr... i dont have e2fstune ;) <agent> i have e2fsck <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, that`s no good <johnnybuoy|gento> you need e2fsprogs <agent> there is tune2fs :) <johnnybuoy|gento> sudo apt-get install e2fsprogs <agent> well, if i dont have it on my system that means that some other prog is doing the check to see when it should invoke a fsck <_ion> I don't know whether that was Arabic or Farsi or whatever, but gnome-terminal rendered that horribly. :-) <agent> works in xchat :/ <_ion> Probably. <agent> xchat-gnome, if that makes a difference <_ion> Probably not. <agent> yeah, probably gnome terminal and gnome xchat do not have the same font rendering <_ion> gnome-terminal renders combining characters as if they were normal characters. <_ion> </offtopic> <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, no, your fs parameters have it in them and the default is fsck every 30 mounts <johnnybuoy|gento> you can change it with e2fstune, which is in the e2fsprogs <johnnybuoy|gento> I can't help you more than this <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: so there is no check at boot to see what mount # it's on (as in, if this is the 30th mount)? this is somehow built into the fs? <johnnybuoy|gento> well, yes, fs+distro <johnnybuoy|gento> yes <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, it counts it <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: yes, you can also change it with tune2fs... google search revealed that e2fstune = tune2fs... but maybe this is not accurate <johnnybuoy|gento> but if there is a problem with it, it'll sometimes go in circle <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: and im trying to figure out what exacting does the counting :) <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, heh, okay, so tune2fs is the same :D <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, I think the fs has a valuable for it <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, ahy? <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, why? <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: i was wondering if it would be possible to list what mount in the cycle its on... so maybe it's possible to write some prog that catches this <agent> err <agent> i think i was not being clear on that second part <johnnybuoy|gento> yes, well, I think (tun)e2fs(tune) knows ow to query this, but I'm not shure <agent> ex: write a program that sees that it's on mount #29 and tells the user... <johnnybuoy|gento> I did see something like this on a distro <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: i read the man page and i actually dont see anything about it being able to do that <johnnybuoy|gento> it said maximum number of mounts reached, fsck will be ran on next mount, you can disable this with tune2fs <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: yes, but i dont want to disable anything :( just query to see what mount its on <johnnybuoy|gento> okay, I dunno for the query... <johnnybuoy|gento> but it should be an e2 (ext3) query tool, cause it's insided the fs <agent> summary on e2fsprogs webpage: e2fsprogs, which consists of e2fsck, mke2fs, debugfs, dumpe2fs, tune2fs, and most of the other core ext2fs filesystem utilities. (notice the tune2fs - guess it was renamed) <johnnybuoy|gento> yep <johnnybuoy|gento> then maybe there is a third-party tool to make queryes <johnnybuoy|gento> it shouldn't be hard to make as the specs of ext3 are completely GPL <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: well, seeing as my programming skills are in the crapper ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <johnnybuoy|gento> LEAVE me, I'm installing gentoo right now ;) <agent> ok... good luck * agent is a former gentoo'er (my first distro - back when there were no docs or automation! ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, why did you change? <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: i became tired of compiling everything <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: also, i wanted a stable system, but not so stable like debian ;) <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: ubuntu's 6month cycle is perfect <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <johnnybuoy|gento> ubuntu is nice, I like it <johnnybuoy|gento> but my computer is too slow for it <johnnybuoy|gento> and I wanted to test out something daunting and exciting ;P <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: well good luck... if your pc is slow for ubuntu you will pull out your hair when you have to compile all those programs... over and over.... and over after every update ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <agent> at least now they have binaries for big programs] <agent> but just so you know, speed increase is minimal <agent> what are your specs? <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, well, it's not that slow, but a 2yrs old ubuntu is just sooooo slow now with like 210,000 files installed <johnnybuoy|gento> I have no time to prune everything <johnnybuoy|gento> and it's immpossible to do a perfect job <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: your not doing a good job with maintanance ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> meh <johnnybuoy|gento> 2 trs, man <johnnybuoy|gento> 2 yrs <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: thats always the case, regardless what distro... <johnnybuoy|gento> any debian unstable system get's oooold after 2yrs <agent> when was hoary released? <johnnybuoy|gento> I used ubuntu unstable allways <agent> yeah, thats probably not a good idea if you want to keep things clean :) <johnnybuoy|gento> yea <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: is there an easy way to check the amount of files on an fs? <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <agent> oh, and im on 2 years ubuntu (but mostly stable) <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, for me apt told me when it was 'reading the database' for ages, then tell me I had 210,000 files installed <johnnybuoy|gento> also, I was using kde for a while, but then switched to GNOME <johnnybuoy|gento> now that didn't help <agent> meh <agent> just remove everything :) <agent> it's actually not that difficult to revert to a "fresh install" system <agent> just compare the "fresh install" package list with what you have and remove the extras <agent> not counting the extra packages that you want to keep, of course ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> hmm <johnnybuoy|gento> right <johnnybuoy|gento> well, I did that <johnnybuoy|gento> but I'm pretty shure I still had some leftovers.. <agent> thats always the case, but im curious how you intend on getting gentoo to solve this? <johnnybuoy|gento> well, it's not as a solution, more like a "I need to get some excitement" in my life <johnnybuoy|gento> and I really do like gentoo a lot <johnnybuoy|gento> for being able to have my own cflags and USE= flags <johnnybuoy|gento> I mean, I know the performance benefit.. <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: yes.... if it suits you, why not? now are you planning on using a DE? <johnnybuoy|gento> yep <johnnybuoy|gento> GNOME <johnnybuoy|gento> why? <agent> just curious since you say your pc is not very fast <johnnybuoy|gento> ah <johnnybuoy|gento> no, it is <agent> o <johnnybuoy|gento> but not for 210,000 installed files <johnnybuoy|gento> it was just crufty <johnnybuoy|gento> I have a PentiumM centrino 1,5Ghz. <agent> also, i dont understand how a linux system can be slow if it has many files... they are on the hd but not being used <agent> and ubuntu for 1.5 years on 450mhz pc works fine here ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> well, starting a program was taking ages <johnnybuoy|gento> after that it was fine <agent> i see <johnnybuoy|gento> I see you really don't like gentoo <johnnybuoy|gento> any reasons except the compile times? <agent> i have nothing against gentoo actually <agent> its just not for me <agent> compile times are pretty much it... <agent> and running find on / results in this nice number for me: 495191 <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <agent> but that counts EVERYTHING <johnnybuoy|gento> I have heard that btrees improve ext3 performace quite a bit, so that's what I'll use <agent> including directories, links, and even all those "files" in proc <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, what does apt say about installed packages? <agent> 1177 <johnnybuoy|gento> wtf?? <agent> no performance hit whatsoever <agent> why? <agent> is that a lot? <johnnybuoy|gento> man, even on base ubuntu install it's <johnnybuoy|gento> 80,000 <agent> no <agent> you asked for # of packages <agent> not files ;) <johnnybuoy|gento> ah, right <johnnybuoy|gento> sorry <agent> hehe <johnnybuoy|gento> I meant files <johnnybuoy|gento> when apt (dpkg) says reading the database <agent> its too fast <johnnybuoy|gento> then it spits out some files <johnnybuoy|gento> meh <agent> :D <agent> and this is on a 1ghz laptop <agent> what command do you pass to get the # of file <agent> i see nothing about files, just packages <agent> maybe its just too fast <johnnybuoy|gento> hmm <johnnybuoy|gento> nope <johnnybuoy|gento> just reinstall a package, it'll read that database every time <agent> your right! <agent> never noticed that before <agent> hah <agent> 100498 files and directories currently installed <johnnybuoy|gento> see <johnnybuoy|gento> I had twice as many <agent> :) <johnnybuoy|gento> dunno, tho <agent> you don't clean your system! <johnnybuoy|gento> yes I do <johnnybuoy|gento> I'd like to use upstart <agent> well, 100,000 packages says you dont ;P <agent> err <agent> files <agent> not packages <agent> haha <johnnybuoy|gento> it's a nice project, would be nice if gentoo didn't have that initng cr*p <agent> oh and one more thing i like about ubuntu: it just works (well, except multimedia) <johnnybuoy|gento> heh, 100,000 packages would be a world record, I guess <agent> there are only 20,000 in ubuntu repos <johnnybuoy|gento> agent, yea, I know, but still, if gentoo is configured properly it just works also, and better <johnnybuoy|gento> s/better/faster <agent> johnnybuoy|gento: aye :) <johnnybuoy|gento> :) <agent> oh... i found out how to check inodes <agent> df -i <agent> that will quickly show you amount of files, directories, etc. together <johnnybuoy|gento> yea! ext3 is nice <johnnybuoy|gento> I wonder what they'll do for ext4 <johnnybuoy|gento> ... <agent> in gentoo i switched from ext3 to reiserfs :) <johnnybuoy|gento> wel, that's highly unsafe... <agent> what? <agent> reiserfs? <johnnybuoy|gento> in this install I wanted to use reiser4, but I think I'll just use ext3 with btrees <johnnybuoy|gento> yes, reiser4 <johnnybuoy|gento> and reiserfs <agent> reiser4 != reiserfs <agent> o <agent> :) <johnnybuoy|gento> both are rather unstable <agent> worked for me <johnnybuoy|gento> also, do you know about Mr. Hans Reiser? <agent> i know who he is, yes.... i dont know much about him <johnnybuoy|gento> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_reiser#Arrest_following_wife.27s_disappearance <agent> i guess reiser4 wont be stable soon, eh? <johnnybuoy|gento> heh <johnnybuoy|gento> probably not heh <johnnybuoy|gento> tho some project might pick it up <johnnybuoy|gento> it's a quite nice design <rmjb> Hi <rmjb> does udev trigger an event when it starts in edgy? <rmjb> can I create an upstart script that runs "on udev-start"? #upstart 2006-10-24 !christel:*! Hi all. We seem to have been affected by a small networking glitch at one of our uplinks. Affected users were about 4,000. All seems back to normal now. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day! <dr-evil> hi all, how to change a codepage <dr-evil> to a koi8-r #upstart 2006-10-25 <tapas> hi <Keybuk> heh <Keybuk> I thought people used IRC bouncers to avoid disconnecting from IRC :p <thom> they're called bouncers for a reason :P <Keybuk> BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY! BOUNCY! #upstart 2006-10-26 * Signon time : Thu Sep 21 08:57:04 2006 * Signoff time : Thu Oct 26 06:50:09 2006 * Total uptime : 34d 21h 53m 5s * Starting logfile irclogs/upstart.log -ChanServ(acolon@example.com.)- [#ubuntu-server] Ubuntu Server Discussions (development and support) -ChanServ(acolon@example.com.)- [#ubuntu] Welcome to #ubuntu! Please read the channel topic and consider spending some time on the FAQ mentioned there <WorkRoey> hi :) <WorkRoey> does upstart enable parallelizable booting? <WorkRoey> (and shutting down/restarting) <Md> yes <WorkRoey> cool. <WorkRoey> I hope it speeds up booting significantly... <WorkRoey> and that Debian Proper accepts it. <phsdv> Hi all. Did anyone mannage to get upstart running on a non-ubuntu machine? <phsdv> My machine does boot but errors on the scripts in /etc/event.d <Roey> anyone here know how much time upstart's parallelized booting shaves off of Ubuntu's booting time? <_ion> Ubuntu still uses sysv-rc via the upstart compatibility layer. <Roey> oh....erg. <Roey> so there are plans to move completely to upstart? <_ion> The next release, probably. <Roey> neat, ok. <Roey> thjanks <concept10> I really need help. I installed upstart on my Edgy install and it will not boot. it loads kernel only and says it has no more jobs. <concept10> Suggestions to start debugging this? <concept10> anyone around? <concept10> anyone around? <concept10> is there a way to manually get upstart to boot my system from the CLI? <concept10> I installed upstart on my system without any jobs, any suggestions on how to get the jobs on my system? After reading, I found out that I do not have the upstart-compat-sysv package installed. <_ion> Don't you have the ubuntu-minimal package installed? It depends on every necessary package. <concept10> I am not sure about that package <concept10> but my Edgy install was working before I installed upstart <mbiebl> Install upstart-compat-sysv and you should be fine. <concept10> Problem now is that I cant boot into my system. Meaning no networking <_ion> Boot with init=/bin/bash <_ion> Install ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard <concept10> _ion: you mean from where? <concept10> grub? <_ion> The installer should have installed them in the first place. <_ion> Yes. <mbiebl> Boot, then run /etc/init/rcS && /etc/init/rc 2 <_ion> init.d <concept10> Okay, let me get this right, because right now I have to boot into windows to get onto the net <_ion> After running rcS and rc 2 you should have networking. <mbiebl> Yeah <concept10> next problem: installing upstart got rid of sysvinit <concept10> (removed) <mbiebl> thats intentional ;-) <concept10> I understand that <concept10> so /etc/init/rcS should be still there? <_ion> Yes. <rgl_> hi <mbiebl> dpkg -S /etc/init.d/rcS tells you that it is part of the sysv-rc package <concept10> so right now there are only two upstart jobs, which are
{'channel': 'upstart', 'month': 10}