#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-01 <paultag> Hey guys :) <ronj> hai <ScottL> hi paultag , ronj <paultag> ScottL, howdy, you too ronj :) <ScottL> http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-2.png <ScottL> mockup of a possible new ubuntu studio website <ScottL> comments welcome <rlameiro> I like it, a lot <ScottL> oh, thanks :) * ScottL is blushing slightly <persia> Unless we have some volunteer to produce news at least once a week, I'm very much against the "News" column <persia> What is "Planet Studio"? <persia> s/powerfull/powerful/ <persia> Layout, colors, etc. are prety :) <ScottL> i would like to do quick news myself, for example, a few lines mentioning moving towards the -lowlatency kernel and trying to get it into the archives <ScottL> being the default kernel <ScottL> news about workflows, just mentioning it and the general idea <ScottL> also the news would have rss feed <ScottL> "planet studio" could be like ubuntu planet, blog aggregate for ubuntu studio users <ScottL> ack'd spelling <ScottL> thank you :) <ScottL> . <ScottL> one thing i forgot in the workflows would be watching a movie <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows <persia> Won't be like Planet Ubuntu then: it would be like Planet Ubuntu Users. <ScottL> well, yes, that is technically correct then * persia thinks watching a movie is a Desktop task, and that we should just assume they got it right, and complain at them when they didn't <ScottL> i thought we might consider vlc rather them totem or whatever is current <persia> heh. Sorry to be pedantic. I get overfussy about some details. <ScottL> i understand, in my bailiwick at work i am the same <ScottL> but i wanted to solicit feedback from others about it <persia> I think that, except where we can point at some specific reason not to do so, we'd do better to just use the stuff Ubuntu Desktop has. <persia> So far, I think our exception list is as follows (but would appreciate correction): <persia> 1) we want a lower-latency kernel <persia> 2) we distribute audacious rather than rythmbox because we expect most of our users will not be using a music library, but rather playing recently created tracks or sampling tracks from others. <persia> 3) We don't use network-manager because it has an unpredictable load profile <persia> 4) We don't use indicator-me (or any of the instant-communication-social-media stuff) because it has an unpredictable load profile <persia> So, if there was a decision to use, say vlc rather than totem, I'd be more likely to support it if there was a reason that we believed totem could adversely affect the workflow for our target users. <ScottL> i that all tracks well and i can't think of anything contrary to point out * ScottL is restarting computer for updates <persia> ScottL, Just to be clear, I'm opinionated, but don't necessarily want to impose my view. I tend to think of ubuntustudio-desktop as being an alternative to ubuntu-desktop for folks that need to not have some stuff, rather than being especially cool or nifty or fun. <persia> Whereas the rest of ubuntustudio-* tends to be collections of useful applications that can be installed on either ubuntu-desktop or ubuntustudio-desktop, depending on what the user needs as a base. <persia> I'm not sure that this view of things is widely shared, or even aligned with the goals of the project :) <ScottL> that's cool persia <ScottL> i was just wondering if anyone had experience with vlc and if it was quite better than totem <ScottL> i've read many times in paper and on the internet that vlc is quite ace but i really do not watch much video and have no experience really with vlc * holstein is a VLC fanboy <holstein> its one of the first things i install <ScottL> lol, xmarks is probably the first thing i install (for firefox bookmarks) <holstein> chromium, and chrome has a thing built in <holstein> bookmark sync <persia> VLC does a lot of cool things that totem can't. Totem tends to provide a more seamless user experience. <holstein> the password sync is handy with xmarks though <ScottL> holstein, did you see my website mock-up? <holstein> ScottL: hmmm <ScottL> http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-2.png <holstein> pretty sure <holstein> YEHA <ScottL> i added another column and adjusted some spacings <holstein> yeah* <holstein> +1 on the layout <ScottL> thanks <holstein> extra column <ScottL> generally the reception has been pleasantly positive <holstein> im not a huge fan of the 'set your creativity free' font <holstein> but i get the idea <holstein> and the contrast is nice <ScottL> you're not the first to mention that font :) <ScottL> not liking it, that is <holstein> eh <holstein> i get it <holstein> do your thing i say <holstein> its clean and slick <holstein> the whole unit <holstein> i think if it was 20% less frilly <holstein> that font <persia> I think the frilliness is important. I don't much like the font, but I like that it's frilly and italic. <holstein> yeah <holstein> sets it apart <ScottL> i looked through *ALL* the fonts in inkscape and that was the best font i found ;) <persia> And I think the contrast is important in terms of associating self-identification to Ubuntu Studio for target users, who often accept identities in contrast to that considered "regular" or "normal" <persia> ScottL, Well then. It's the right font :) <persia> (unless someone wants to hand-draw the phrase) <ScottL> i shall not live or die by this website and i am very open to suggestions <ScottL> or change the phrase <ScottL> or replace it with an image <ScottL> a cool drawing done by a user could be awesome right there <ScottL> i admit that i was thinking of troy a lot when i had been working on it, thinking, "what would troy say?" LOL <ScottL> that's why i still want to really identify the audience more and their needs <ScottL> i really like the logo with the word "experience" above and to the left, kinda hanging there <holstein> yeah <holstein> i gotta say <holstein> i wasnt diggin the logo til this * persia misses blue but likes the logo overall <ScottL> persia, do you mean the blue cof ? <ScottL> like cory's logo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/LogoRedesignV3 <ScottL> . <ScottL> it's funny (and rewarding) how things like this come together <ScottL> i had come up with a few things http://scottalavender.deviantart.com/gallery/ <ScottL> and cory like how i had put the "t" and "d" together <persia> Just blue in general. The logo used to be blue. But don't change it because of my nostalgia. <ScottL> err, it was the "n" and "d" <ScottL> but he also like how the "experience" logo had "ubuntu" and "studio" offset <persia> 'n' could flow to either 't' or 'd', really. <ScottL> and combined the two :) <ScottL> mine was centered but i think the staggered look provides better anchors for other aspects <ScottL> natty is stacking to be a big release :) <astraljava> I'm with persia re: the blue color, it's somehow stuck in my mind as the color of US. :) <astraljava> Otherwise, the mock-up for website is damn cool! <abogani> URL? <astraljava> I'm not a huge fan of putting the 'n' together with neither 't' nor 'd'. <astraljava> abogani: http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-2.png <abogani> woooo impressive <ScottL> thank you astraljava and abogani, it's not necessarily THE new website, it's just something i was inspired to make <ScottL> but i'm glad you like it <ScottL> i've been overwhelmingly surprised by the positive responses <abogani> It's really cool <ScottL> i am not intuitively good at art and design in the way that that i believe troy or cory are <ScottL> abogani, thank you :) <ScottL> abogani, i believe you were discussing ralf earlier, currently he seems a most unreasonable person due to his seemingly obsession with the -rt kernel :/ <abogani> When I read hist first email I thought that his was a troll. <abogani> he* <ScottL> heh, that is understandable <scott-work> there is a new musescore update that fixes many bugs available <scott-work> ScottK has asked if we would like it, presumably for maverick <scott-work> if anyone would like to test it it is available at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56895273/musescore_156.14.161.142%2Bdfsg-1ubuntu1_156.14.161.142%2Bdfsg-0ubuntu1.diff.gz <scott-work> in fact it would be appreciate if someone did <scott-work> i expect to see the doctor today for muscle problems in my back today and fully expect to be on muscle relaxers later and not fully functional ;) * You're now known as ubuntulog #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-02 <ScottL> anyone able to help check a new version of musescore ? <holstein> ScottL: i got it downloaded <holstein> im going to look at it now :) <holstein> ScottL: im not sure i know what to do with it <ScottL> holstein, hi :) <ScottL> i'm feeling pretty spacey right now, taking soma as a muscle relaxer ;) <holstein> OH <holstein> hope you get that sorted out :/ <holstein> sux <ScottL> been having some escalating back problems and a previously damaged muscle has been progressively getting worse throughout this week <ScottL> oh, i'll be fine after the muscle settles down :) <holstein> COOL * holstein downloaded that .diff.gz <ScottL> okay, here's what i think needs to happen <ScottL> maybe someone watching can correct me <ScottL> make sure you have a maverick install to use <ScottL> make a cool directory to do this in <ScottL> apt-get source musescore <ScottL> apply the diff.gz <ScottL> build the package <ScottL> install it <ScottL> run it <ScottL> bend it to your will <ScottL> okay, the last one was silly <holstein> AH * holstein will have to get maverick installed on something <holstein> that will take longer <ScottL> i think most of that should be easily accessible to you <holstein> i'll put it on an SD card <ScottL> this might help to apply the debdiff https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff <ScottL> oh, that's cool (on a SD card) <holstein> :) <holstein> handy <ScottL> CAN you put it on an SD card? <ScottL> and have it boot? <holstein> yup <ScottL> wicked * holstein has an old EEEpc <holstein> asus <holstein> you can install to SD <holstein> boot SD <holstein> whatever <holstein> its handy for testing <ScottL> oh crap, you will need to download the dependencies before you try to build (unless you do it in ppa or pbuilder) <holstein> well, let me get maverick installed on something <ScottL> i might set up a pbuilder upstairs on my maverick install tonight and try as well <holstein> and i'll see what i can do <ScottL> sounds good <holstein> ScottL: where did you get that diff? <holstein> in a channel? <ScottL> i'm feeling more lucid now that i was earlier (no pun intended) <ScottL> holstein, it came from ScottK in #ubuntu-motu <holstein> cool * ScottL is installing prevu upstairs right now <ScottL> holstein, did you read my last email to ralf by chance? was i an arse? <ScottL> i worry that i was * holstein trying to sleep but the neighbors are loud :/ <holstein> ScottL: nah <holstein> i didnt get an arse-like vibe <holstein> to be honest, i stopped reading the bulk of that thread <ScottL> i REALLY want people to understand that we aren't blithering idiots and the reasons why we do things <ScottL> i think that is important to have educated users <holstein> would be nice <ScottL> holstein, sorry about the neighbors <holstein> eh <holstein> its cool <holstein> they got a loud band <holstein> usually pretty bad <holstein> tonite is much better <holstein> music-wise <holstein> sounds like they brought in an actual band <ScottL> lol, i guess that is good <ScottL> persia or TheMuso, ScottK is asking about possibly adding extras.ubuntu.com to our sources.list, is this something we might desire? <ScottL> i wouldn't think so myself, but i don't know all the in and outs <holstein> ScottL: whats in there? <ScottL> holstein, hmmm, i'm not sure, i thought i had an idea but i was wrong <ScottL> apparently it for the new application approval process <ScottL> i'm not sure there will be many new packages for audio that come through the new approval process <ScottL> i would imagine we would get more through debian thanks to quadrispro <ScottL> i think i would still like to get someone else's opinion with more experience though <holstein> ScottL: im pretty sure ralf is trying to boot the newer RT ad realtime kernels in 64studio/hardy <ScottL> holstein, i kinda washed my hands after his last email, he skipped all the important stuff (to me) and focused on the trivial items (to me) <ScottL> but it is kinda surprising that someone who appears to be that knowledgeable about kernels is rocking 64studio <ScottL> not that i am knocking 64studio as a distro, but rather that it really hasn't changed (my understanding) for quite a while <holstein> i asked for clarification, but the latest mail looked like he was having issues with hardy/64studio <holstein> who know whats in the 64studio repos that would not like the new kernel <ScottL> very true <holstein> yeah, 64 is dea <holstein> d <ScottL> my understanding is that daniel is working with some OEM people (indamixxx perhaps?) <ScottL> custom tailoring an audio distro for some hardware providers <holstein> i just wish the website said that <holstein> it doesnt <ScottL> lol, yeah <holstein> it says a new version came out several months ago <holstein> and its a thriving community project <ScottL> heh, i imagine that is rather frustrating for those who wish to still use (and get updates) for 64studio :( <persia> ScottL, Up to you. I'm not a big fan of extras, but we'll see how it turns out (either way) <persia> !extras <ubottu> extras.ubuntu.com is an external !repo for new software made available after the Ubuntu release. This repository is not part of the Ubuntu distribution and the software is completely unsupported by the Ubuntu team, but the original authors may offer some support. <holstein> lol <holstein> amazing how many emails have been sent back and forth about ralf's rig <holstein> and i still cant quite make out the facts ;) <ScottL> it sounds like extras.ubuntu.com is a glorified PPA almost <holstein> Oh <ScottL> well, if you consider the support :P <holstein> is that a suggestion about where we could house RT kernels? <ScottL> i realize there is a (streamlined) approval process <ScottL> holstein, probably not since i think this is a quasi-first step to getting packages into the formal archives <ScottL> i think this just makes it available quicker before the next release <persia> ScottL, It is a PPA <ScottL> i'm presuming some of this however, based on other comments <persia> Specifically https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+archive/ppa <ScottL> persia, i don't like it and i think we should decline it <ScottL> nothing is preventing users from adding it to their sources.list by their own volition <persia> It's not in any way a quasi-first step to getting packages in the archives, from the last I heard, other than that someone might decide to take a package from there. <ScottL> ah, okay <persia> For myself, I'd rather catch people wanting to package stuff we want, help them get it into Debian, and backport it, but I've not been great at supporting that workflow, so I can't stand behind that viewpoint very strongly. <ScottL> we have had some moderate success getting applications in debian first and then synced to ubuntu however :) <ScottL> and since we are still currently in an LTS version i'm not sure a proper opportunity to backport has presented itself <persia> We have, although, as you pointed out a few days ago, "ubuntustudio" is a huge tag on REVU. <ScottL> *sigh* true, sad but true <persia> If there were no Studio applications left on REVU, I'd be a lot firmer about my opinion. <ScottL> i think some of those applications need to be evaluated, some have already been pushed through debian i believe <ScottL> and i think jackmixer might already be in the archives (?) <persia> We ought archive the ones that are in Debian. <ScottL> if you will instruct me how to archive something in REVU i would be happy to effect the necessary ones this weekend <ScottL> this would align the queue with reality and give us a better understanding <persia> Indeed. <ScottL> i could also coordinate with quadrispro with the remaining ones to get them into debian as well :) <ScottL> quadrispro is amazing and ubuntu studio is very, very fortunate to have his efforts <persia> heh. At least we're smaller than "python" <ScottL> lol <persia> OK. For archiving: if you look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jackpanel do you see an "archive" button? <persia> (don't press it: it's not in Debian or Ubuntu yet) <ScottL> the extras repository seems like a band aid instead of improving the REVU process <ScottL> logging in <ScottL> aye, i have an archive link in the upper right <persia> I'm not sure that's fair. Some of the discussions I was involved in at last UDS talked about improving the REVU process, and using the concept of an Application Review Board to do so. We ended up with extras.ubuntu.com, which doesn't quite do that to my mind. I'm not sure if this is a first step towards the solution or treatment of symptom rather than problem. <persia> Excellent. * persia looks for one that needs archiving <persia> ScottL, Are you able to archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/livemix ? (we have 0.49~rc3-0ubuntu5 in the archives, so REVU is newer, but it's not completely missing, plus one can unarchive) <ScottL> sorry, was getting son settled, will check now <persia> NO rush :) <ScottL> apparently i did archive it <ScottL> and i have now unarchived it <persia> I'll let you decide how best to work with sbrunner to get it into Debian and up-to-date (likely for natty), and whether having it archived or not is best. <persia> But at least you have permission to archive, and know how :) <ScottL> indeed :) <ScottL> holstein, i believe there is a disconnect with ralf but i don't think it is a language barrier, hopefully it is his influenza <ScottL> but i would be interested in understanding why he says Ubuntu Studio Lucid will not boot <holstein> well, we're back to the issue now <holstein> he's about to respond to jeremy that he has an nvidia GPU <ScottL> holstein, i'm also building musescore this morning (it takes a looong time with an older single core) <ScottL> holstein, well that's a problem right there, is it not? <holstein> we'll see if jermemy handles it in a way that ralf can understand <holstein> yup <holstein> and that was already mentioned way back at the beginning <ScottL> jeremy = autostatic? * holstein not sure <ScottL> re: mentioned way back, that could be the influenza that caused him to overlook that <holstein> yup <ScottL> although it is curious that he was a little short with others that he had mentioned his hardware specs earlier in the thread ;) <holstein> yup <holstein> thats the deal though <holstein> i wasnt really sure what was going on there in that thread <holstein> seems like it got steered to rt kernel talk instead of, x wont start <holstein> i think it was bad timing <holstein> with all the other RT talk going on <holstein> now that i think about it <holstein> i bet that was the goal at the beginning <holstein> 'i cant get x to start with the RT kernel' <ScottL> maybe :) hopefully it gets sorted out <holstein> and then it got around to <holstein> 'NO, the rt kernel is great' <holstein> somehow ;) <ScottL> heh <ScottL> holstein, you were right about the nvidia :) but why does he have an ATI card installed but disabled? curious and curious <ScottL> are we heading down the rabbit hole? <ScottL> lol, rereading i realized that should have been 'curiouser and curiouser' <holstein> im going to try and set back and let jeremy have a go <holstein> im pretty sure the -realtime kernel in falks ppa is abogani's with the patches for the nvidia drivers applied <holstein> i'll try and confirm that, and offer it as a suggestion <ScottL> it gets tough trying to remember which version is currently released <ScottL> were still working (somewhat) on maverick which is about to be released <ScottL> but devoting lots of cycles to natty <ScottL> but we still support lucid <ScottL> and it's confusing threading different requests when working on a particular release <ScottL> . <ScottL> i built and testing musescore for ScottK <ScottL> it seemed to work okay (i'm not an expert or even a casual user of musescore however) <ScottL> and reported back to ScottK <ScottL> s/testing/tested #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-03 <ScottL> anyone heard of stretchplayer? http://www.teuton.org/~gabriel/stretchplayer/ <ScottL> i read about it in an Linux Format article on Indamixxx and their OS Transmission <ScottL> sounds like a good tool for guitarists :) <ScottL> let's you change the speed of a song without changing the pitch <paultag> ScottL, never heard of it, looks pretty rad, though <paultag> I think I'm going to try it out :) <paultag> ScottL, has anyone debianized it? <paultag> Upstream has a Debian dir <paultag> Ouch, looks like it's in bad shape <paultag> fun! FTBFS <paultag> Looks like it's heatherjohnson@example.com. Must be stale packages. <paultag> Wait, I'm an idiot. I did not have universe on my pbuilder. * jussi huggles paultag <paultag> heyya jussi :) <paultag> jussi, How's it going, man? * paultag huggles jussi back <jussi> paultag: when did you arrive here? :D <jussi> IM well, trying to back up and reinstall this machine for my sis-in-law <paultag> jussi, I figured I'd start helping out around these parts, it's what got me into Ubuntu back in 08 from Debian <paultag> jussi, woo :) <jussi> paultag: studio needs people like you, please stay! :D <paultag> jussi, I'll stay, my friend :) <jussi> i really should have done "dd if= of="... <jussi> would have been much easier <jussi> paultag: you going to UDS? <paultag> jussi, it sure would, but remember that the archives are pretty huge, and it will only work if the partition is half the size of the dest drive ;) <paultag> jussi, no, I did not get sponsorship :( <paultag> jussi, but all my friends are, so life's OK <jussi> paultag: ahh shucks <paultag> jussi, it's OK, people that I love took my spot, so I can't complain <jussi> Im going, found out fri/sat <paultag> jussi, congrats! <jussi> :) <paultag> jussi, you took nigelb's spot <paultag> jussi, his visa got denied :( <jussi> aww, poor guy <paultag> US law is pretty silly <paultag> jussi, give cztab a huge hug from me :) <jussi> hehe <jussi> paultag: a hug? she might not let me <paultag> jussi, tell her it's from me :) <jussi> I just hope I dont have any issues with the esta <paultag> jussi, then duck the punch that she'll throw back at me <jussi> haha <paultag> jussi, you should be OK. I think it's based on a quota per country <paultag> jussi, India has a TON of people on visas so it might be a lot harder <paultag> if I understand the system right <paultag> jussi, if not, fly into Mexico and get into the country that way <jussi> hahahahahahhahaha <paultag> :) <jussi> far out! they are charging for esta's now? <paultag> o.O :/ <paultag> I'll be right back jussi, time to get some foods :) <ScottL> another website mock-up, with a few more things fleshed out http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png <frewsxcv> ScottL, i hope that's a joke <frewsxcv> ScottL, sorry, i don't mean to be rude, but there are so many things wrong with it <paultag> ScottL, I like the StretchPlayer, it's actually really cool, I used it to learn some Yann Tierson this afternoon <paultag> ScottL, it's quite buggy, but nothing some love can't fix up nicely <paultag> frewsxcv, I think the current website is better then that mockup, too. Not that my opinion counts much around here #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-04 <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, it really wasn't a joke <ScottL> frewsxcv, but we would really appreciate any suggestions or examples you can provide <ScottL> paultag, that's cool, hopefully you can smooth some things over <paultag> ScottL, is it being considered for submission to Debian? <ScottL> paultag, as far as i know, no one is working on it for debian, but i don't keep up that much with debian to be honest <paultag> ScottL, it looks to be stupid stuff like sanity checking <paultag> ScottL, I've not seen an RFS for it, and I keep an eye out for cool stuff like this <paultag> ScottL, I might try and fork it and send the git repo to the author and see if he might consider sending to Debian <paultag> ScottL, it's pretty cool ( but he has some basic errors with his packaging, I might try and fix that up while I'm at it ) <ScottL> frewsxcv, and please feel free to point out any wrong with the mock-up, i don't claim to be a website designer but i would enjoy learning more <ScottL> paultag, sweet :) <paultag> ScottL, have you tried it out? <ScottL> i just ran across this while reading Linux Format magazine, not sure how many people actually know about it <paultag> ScottL, it's actually really really cool, I love it. It helped hugely this afternoon <ScottL> paultag, negative, been working on too many other things, even to the exclusion of my own music that i should have finished a month ago ;) <paultag> ScottL, I nailed a good bit of a song I was struggling with <paultag> ScottL, I know that feeling :) <frewsxcv> ScottL, firs thing i notice in the site. it's a bunch of text. not organizational flow whatsoever <frewsxcv> it's like someone went in the gimp and just placed textboxes everywhere <paultag> ScottL, Oh man, I just read the readme. Apparently stretchplayer is GPL-Jesus-Christ-v3 <paultag> ScottL, http://github.com/paultag/stretchplayer/raw/master//README.txt <-- Check this out <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, it was inkscape, but fair enough :) go on, please <paultag> Right under "ABOUT STRETCHPLAYER" <ScottL> paultag, written to glorify god....hmmm, interesting <frewsxcv> ScottL, coutn how many different fonts are apparent on the website. a site should never have more than 2 <ScottL> paultag, lol @ "gpl-jesus-christ-v3" <paultag> ScottL, not often you see that in a README <paultag> :P <frewsxcv> ScottL, what is the player in the top left? <frewsxcv> ScottL, also embedding flash on the front page? <frewsxcv> ScottL, and the colors on the top right, of the social network icons, do not fit in the page <ScottL> frewsxcv, the player in the top left was to play user submitted music, to showcase ubuntu studio user work <ScottL> frewsxcv, "flash on front page", i thought that having some media very accessible (espeically the youtube videos that everyone likes to watch) would help new people see what it is about and how good it can be <frewsxcv> ScottL, that can be a good idea, though 1) make sure it doesn't play by default 2) make sure it doesn't use flash 3) don't position it on the top left of the page <ScottL> frewsxcv, i agree with the colors, i had considered making them grayscale <frewsxcv> ScottL, having media on the front page can be fine. just flash is looked down upon, especially in the FOSS community. theora/webm would be a nice choice. though 2 videos on the front page can be a bit overwhelming <frewsxcv> ScottL, i'm not sure how it'd look but, maybe on hover over, the icons can turn their respective color <ScottL> frewsxcv, keep in mind, that really isn't a flash player there, it's just a screen shot that i stole to use as a prop, it could be any type of video <ScottL> frewsxcv, do you have interests in actively helping redo the ubuntustudio.org website? <ScottL> people keep saying they want to and then doing nothing or proposing questionable ideas/work <frewsxcv> ScottL, i can help out a bit here and there, though being a full time student and work i don't really have enough time to commit to anything <paultag> ScottL, I can help. I used to be employed as a web designer and I just offloaded helping with the loco-directory project <frewsxcv> ScottL, i did a lot of the coding on the current site <ScottL> paultag, that would be sweet :) <paultag> ScottL, roger doger. I'll see if I can't mock something up when I have a few hours <ScottL> frewsxcv, oh really? i believe cory mentions you often when we talk about the website <ScottL> paultag, awesome! <frewsxcv> ScottL, is he still _MMA_? <ScottL> frewsxcv, no, he goes by ckontros now <ScottL> he doesn't get in this channel too often, but you can pm him quite often <ScottL> frewsxcv, the current website has some things fallen into disrepair and we thought it would be nice to update the whole site since it hasn't been touched in a while <ScottL> paultag, ^^^ i goes you should know that too <frewsxcv> ScottL, i completely agree. and if it were me, i would move away from drupal <paultag> yeah for sure <ScottL> the trouble has been finding someone with drupal experience to fix or replace it <frewsxcv> but that really depends on your coding ability <paultag> ScottL, I'll see if I can mock something up. It won't be hard to replace it with a from scratch site. <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, detrate` offered to do it in wordpress but there's a story about that <frewsxcv> meh it's mostly css work. i'm pretty sure i sent cory a patch a year ago <frewsxcv> it really depends on how complex the site is if you need a whole framework <ScottL> detrate`, had started working something up and stochastic (who doesn't hang around often anymore) popped in and told me and tyler that wordpress is verboten to canonical due to security <ScottL> so, all of detrate`s work got stalled, so we pushed on trying to get drupal help <frewsxcv> i mean, if it's just a few pages, just a small python script would be fine to generate the rss and news page <ScottL> but now i hear that wordpress is allowed (or actually see it, www.uds.ubuntu.com) so i'm going to file an RT to make sure <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, i would like to make the website a little more functional than what it currently is, hopefully make it a portal for new users and a nexus for user activity (hopefully) <frewsxcv> ScottL, like... <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp <ScottL> some of the main things mentioned are the feature walkthrough (not walkway, language from work creeping in) to explain to people unfamiliar with ubuntu studio <ScottL> also go over some of the intricacies, like kernels, to further explain to people who are somewhat familiar <ScottL> places to host user created content <ScottL> how cool would it be for a user to have their stuff playing or showing on the front page? (just an idea) <ScottL> links to tutorials <frewsxcv> ScottL, you don't need a web framework to put an audio player on the front page <frewsxcv> and make sure the audio player is not flash <frewsxcv> libre.fm player is a good example <ScottL> a really good video showcasing ubuntu studio's features would be effective <ScottL> frewsxcv, lol, i was just reading about libre.fm (and jokosher) in Linux Format magazine <frewsxcv> ScottL, again, videos don't require wordpress <ScottL> frewsxcv, my understanding is that canonical requires the framework, but i could be really, really wrong <ScottL> frewsxcv, paultag: to be honest, i care less for "no framework, which framework", whichever methodology works doesn't matter to me, just providing the functionality is what i am concerned with <frewsxcv> ScottL, i agree. for now, focus on functionality/design to the site. then worry about how it works <paultag> ScottL, I'm with you man. <paultag> Well, I'll be off fixing stretchplayer in another workspace. Let me know if this goes anywhere interesting <ScottL> paultag, i don't know if you saw this before - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp <paultag> ScottL, aye, I poped that up when you pasted it above :) <paultag> Woo. Got the DSC lintain clean. Huzzah. <ScottL> paultag, :) <ScottL> paultag, i have an idea for the website i'd like to bounce off of you <ScottL> i tend to think about things, perhaps overthink them, but i try to think about it from lots of perspectives <ScottL> their not always good ideas, mind you, but i try to get "outside" box sometimes <ScottL> hi troy_s <ScottL> paultag, what if the first page was like http://www.kubuntu.org/ <troy_s> ScottL: How goes the fight? <troy_s> ScottL: That site is for whom? <troy_s> ScottL: More of the same wank. <ScottL> paultag, but very, very clean, just focusing on the features of ubuntu studio, with a link to a more explanatory video or to go on to the main site <ScottL> troy_s, 1) still developing, exploring, looking at it <ScottL> troy_s, 2) ubuntu studio <ScottL> troy_s, 3) yes :P <troy_s> ScottL: (I was referring to that Kubuntu site) <ScottL> troy_s, oh, sorry about that then :) <troy_s> ScottL: Looking for a link. <ScottL> troy_s, http://www.kubuntu.org/ <troy_s> ScottL: Yes. Weak. Big bunch of data. <troy_s> ScottL: No spirit. No voice. <ScottL> troy_s, yes, but this was mine http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png <troy_s> http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2010/08/16/are-we-measuring-the-wrong-assumptions/ <ScottL> some liked it, others did not <troy_s> ScottL: Yikes @ me on there. <troy_s> anyways <ScottL> i realize that my mockup is trying to do WAY to much, and therefore not effectively doing anything <troy_s> ScottL: Still no voice. All of the aesthetic cues are really a moot point. In fact, dare I say that you maybe should simply start black and white with a generic typeface etc. A 'pencil outline' if you will. <troy_s> ScottL: Start with a voice. Then let the voice (and the who) drive the aesthetic. <troy_s> ScottL: And yes, an astute observation really. <ScottL> troy_s, this is what inspired my mockup http://cms.template-help.com/wordpress_30641/ <ScottL> troy_s, and you can see that i completely lost the simplicity it had <ScottL> troy_s, my first one was much simpler, but certainly not as elegant as the example <ScottL> troy_s, the second lost its focus, and the third took it to the extreme <paultag> ScottL, sure <ScottL> paultag, keep in mind, i'm not dictating anything, just bouncing ideas <troy_s> ScottL: Yep. Sure did. <paultag> ScottL, yessir <ScottL> paultag, feel free to tell me i'm full of feces ;) <paultag> ScottL, naw, I'm with you. I love the Kubuntu site <paultag> ScottL, I'll tell you if I disagree ;) <ScottL> as i said, i tend to work my way around something, and i don't always walk in the right direction <troy_s> ScottL: Two big things to do perhaps. Or at least try. 1) Ask a question. Don't blow your wad. Let curiosity in. 2) Get that damn voice. Who? Goal? Download the ISO isn't enough. That's certainly a potential goal for certain audiences, but not an end unto itself. What is the end? <troy_s> ScottL: For an extremely good example of 'ask a question', the iPod packaging featuring the black and white musical artists and nothing more did a terrific heatherjohnson@example.com. Enough visual cues to lead the audience in the right direction, but not enough to give them the answer as it were. <troy_s> ScottL: Again, read http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2010/08/16/are-we-measuring-the-wrong-assumptions/ for a perfectly good example of what we are discussing really. Figure out the who and speak to them. Ignore everyone else. <ScottL> troy_s, i'm not terribly intuitive on such things, i will need to read it several times and reflect on it and how it applies <ScottL> troy_s, but read it i will (sorry for yoda voice) <ScottL> troy_s, but this aligns with what i was suggesting to paultag and the example link (the inspirational one), keeping it simple and direct <ScottL> troy_s, i think the audience should be people not familiar with ubuntu studio, the goal to give them some ideas about it without going to technical <ScottL> troy_s, i wasn't trying to sound flippant about the "wrong assumptions" link you gave, i realized it sounded that way when i reread what i typed <ScottL> part of my problem is that i like to explain everything to make sure everyone understand everything :P <troy_s> ScottL: Let's hope you make progress. <troy_s> ScottL: It might be difficult with a lack of unionized core. Getting the core force on the same page is not going to be simple I believe. <abogani> ScottL: About http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png It is really really cool! <ScottL> abogani, thank you :) <ScottL> although two others crucified me about it LOL <ScottL> they didn't like it so much ;) <astraljava> Wow. I am fond of that style very much, so no idea what's going on there. :) <scott-work> i was hoping that providing a mockup to the mailing list it might inspire someone else to prepare a mockup as well <scott-work> maybe go in a different direction, something different <scott-work> paultag said he would work something up as well though :) <scott-work> i look forward to seeing what he has <paultag> :) <paultag> I was dealing with #ubuntu-california last night ( what a headache ). hopefully I'll have time tonight :) <jussi> scott-work: nice mock up, but IM not a bg fan of the "set your creativity free" font <scott-work> jussi: LOL, many feel that way :) <scott-work> jussi: but also, in some cases, people have greatly disliked the overall design <jussi> scott-work: theres always people who just dont like it <abogani> scott-work: You should reply: "I'm sure that we can do better. Could you provide a draft of your idea?". If they don't reply please ignore them. <scott-work> abogani: funny you should say that because i did ;) <scott-work> one of the persons who did not like my mockup was the person who made the current website <abogani> :) <scott-work> when i queried him about problems and change he did point of some very constructive points :) <scott-work> s/change/changes he would make <scott-work> i wonder if we might also use a "landing page", a page the people googling (therefore newbies) would see <scott-work> perhaps something like these: http://aerfoto.net/ <scott-work> just very basic, but highlighting some features <scott-work> with a link at the bottom to take them to the main website, which could be more like the mockup <scott-work> . <scott-work> these are just thoughts, just exploring the possibilities <jussi> scott-work: landing pages work :D <paultag> + <paultag> +1 * <paultag> jussi, thanks for helping this morning again, btw :) <paultag> My website is just a big landing page :) <jussi> no no no... <jussi> I meant to write they dont work ... I hate them. but still.. <jussi> :( <paultag> jussi, >:( <paultag> jussi, http://pault.ag/ <-- this is a landing page, really <scott-work> LOL <jussi> more clicks = bad. <paultag> jussi, you don't click on mine, so neener neener <scott-work> I was LOL at jussi's comments, not you paultag <paultag> scott-work, I figured ;) <scott-work> jussi, paultag: after talking to troy_s and some people at work, i'm really less worried about how the website "looks" than how "functional" it is <scott-work> i think the current website doesn't look bad, but really isn't that functional <scott-work> s/look bad/look that bad <scott-work> i would rather have a website that is basic (like google, youtube, et al) but really, really functional and direct <paultag> scott-work, if we could find a django whiz, this could be in top-notch shape in no time. Just fork the loco-directory, it has a ton of code that could help <paultag> scott-work, yeah, I don't disagree at all <scott-work> i think doctormo knows django <paultag> scott-work, I think he does, he gave code to the LD at one point and time :) <scott-work> paultag: i guess doctormo either hasn't had his morning coffee or isn't interested :P <scott-work> abogani: in reference to your email about kernels and help, i would be happy to help wherever you need it, including packaging and relations <scott-work> i'll respond to the email later today though <holstein> abogani: AH, i didnt realize you were in the channel :) <holstein> yeah, i think we can get a little RT team together to help maintain those kernels <jussi> holstein: scott-work, excellent to see people able to help with RT! <holstein> jussi: :) <scott-work> jussi: the -rt kernel is terribly important for several reasons and deserves this support <jussi> scott-work: Im well aware ;) <scott-work> 1) latptop users with firewire audio interfaces need to set the irq priorities which requires the -rt kernel (as is my understanding) <scott-work> 2) some people require the performance that the -rt kernel provides <scott-work> jussi: i'm sure you do, but i just really wanted to post that in the irc channel for recrod really <scott-work> record even ;) <jussi> :D <paultag> scott-work, haha aye * paultag hugs jussi <jussi> paultag: ! <paultag> jussi, thanks for your work with california, everyone's real stressed over it lately ( it's been going on for a while now ) :) <scott-work> i think some of the education and information sharing in the mailing list regarding the kernels is awesome! <scott-work> it's great to see the community coming together like that :) #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-05 <abogani> ScottL: Ok, thanks but please reply to my email (we should let visible all involvements). <abogani> ScottL: Two doubt: 1) No one show willingness to help with -lowlatency kernel. 2) Almost all people are interested in -rt kernel (which should do support closed video drivers and other things that -realtime don't). <abogani> ScottL: So how we should proceed? <abogani> holstein: Do you play Jazz? :-) <astraljava> abogani: I am willing to help no matter which flavor of kernel we choose to use. :D <abogani> astraljava: Sorry but It is matter instead. <astraljava> abogani: I'm not sure what you mean by that. :) <abogani> astraljava: I meant that I 'm not looking for helpers in general but in specific (so you must use one of my kernels on daily basis). In this way you can provide useful feedback and I can trust on you. <astraljava> abogani: Yeah, I didn't mean generally, I meant I want to help with the kernel that is chosen as default. Packaging, bugfixing, testing, you name it. <astraljava> abogani: If you want to provide several, then that's fine, I can help as well. <ronj> Hi, I just tested today's iso and it seems it fails to create the user directory. I used "use entire disk" and "setup encrypted home". Reading the contents of the disk by booting a livecd, it seems /home is empty (no "ronj" folder, no ".ecryptfs" folder). Don't know if it's specific to an ecryptfs setup or if it is also the case with a standard install, will do the test this evening <ronj> if anyone has the time to do it today, by all means please do so and report on the mailing list if you find something bad <ronj> ... release is approaching... <ScottL> abogani, i thought most would reply aobut the -rt kernel <ScottL> abogani, i will support the -lowlatency and learn how to build it <ScottL> abogani, but i will also support with relations of course <ScottL> abogani, i will respond to the email when i get to work today * abogani waiting hopeful for the (single page) wiki volunteer ... * scott-work finally sent an email about "tasks" and "workflows" to the -devel and -user lists <scott-work> i'm not really happy with my email but i had intended to do it over a week ago <scott-work> i don't want to keep putting it off trying to write a better, more explicitive email #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-10-06 <abogani> Who is the -devel list manager? * abogani waves all <abogani> :-) <abogani> jussi: Three lines above ^^^^ <jussi> 0/ <jussi> abogani: I am, as well as ScottL <abogani> jussi: Could you un-block my last email in -devel, please? <jussi> done <abogani> jussi: Thanks! <ScottL> abogani, if no one volunteers to make the one-page kernel wiki page, then i will do it for you :) <abogani> ScottL: You are already too much involved into too much things ;) <scott-work> abogani: oh, i see you already made the wiki page...sorry i wasn't fast enough * scott-work has just read his email <abogani> :) <scott-work> i signed up for open week to have an open Q&A about ubuntu studio * scott-work wonders how many people will show up to ask questions <scott-work> persia: at some point in the relative near future we should begin to talk about updating the seeds, meta-packages, and adding tasks <scott-work> persia: do you have any links to anything i can start reading about tasks within the metapackages, my initial google searches have been pretty fruitless <scott-work> TheMuso: you might also know of some available documentation or information about creating tasks within the metapackages <paultag> morning all :) <abogani> paultag: morning to you <paultag> abogani, How are you today? <abogani> paultag: fine and you? <paultag> abogani, not too bad. A bit busy, but not heatherjohnson@example.com. :) <abogani> :-) <scott-work> hi paultag and abogani <paultag> scott-work, morning(?) :) <scott-work> paultag: almost noon <paultag> scott-work, ah, you're EST as well :) <scott-work> paultag: well, cst actually, so it's almost 11:00 ;) <paultag> Oh, well shucks <paultag> It's 15 minutes to noon here :) <scott-work> i didn't want to differeniate that much usually because many are eurporean or asia :) <paultag> :) <scott-work> i usually take lunch around 11:30 though, or whenever i find a convenient stopping point, or i'm just hungry ;) <paultag> scott-work, mmm, for sure -- I'm over in Cleveland right now ( Boston by birth ;) ) * scott-work usually eats lunch at his desk to get ubuntu studio stuff done <paultag> scott-work, what line of work are you in? <scott-work> paultag: i am the detailing supervisor for an aluminum cover company - http://www.conservatek.com/ <paultag> scott-work, kickass <scott-work> although i for a period of time i was acting engineering suerpvisor as well, coordinating with the rest of the company but not making any structural decisions <scott-work> there may be a time in the future where i may have that position thrust back upon me though :P <paultag> :) * holstein is a jazz musician abogani <holstein> you too? <holstein> abogani: i will also try and have a look at the kernel wiki you put together soon <holstein> and help out <scott-work> persia, TheMuso: i found a README in the tasksel package that i believe explains the task definition format - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/tasksel/maverick/annotate/head%3A/README <scott-work> from what i have seen, i am also presuming that if we define the tasks in the metapackage (e.g. ubuntustudio-audio) then this will aggregate into the ubuntu-tasks.desc file installed by tasksel <scott-work> please correct me if my understanding is incorrect <scott-work> i suppose another way to say it, if we define the desired tasks in our metapackage, the rest is handled automagickly ;) <scott-work> oh, and i understand the magic carrot (^) i believe <scott-work> persia: now i understand your previous concern about too many tasks and using tasksel <scott-work> it would appear that if we defined numerous tasks within the metapackage (e.g. ubuntustudio-audio-editsong, ubuntustudio-audio-recordinstruments, ubuntustudio-audio-playmusic) each one of these tasks would be presented in the tasksel menu during installation <TheMuso> scott-work: In Ubuntu's case, for the disks anyway, tasks are generated from seeds. <TheMuso> SO you need to put a special few fields at the top of seed files to do this. Just look at the desktop file or the audio file in the bzr branch. <scott-work> TheMuso: i have them in front of me <scott-work> each defines one task in the file <TheMuso> But then if we add tasks, we need to patch the disk build process to add the new tasks to the list. <TheMuso> scott-work: RIght <TheMuso> atm the tasks we see are limited to only what we want, so every new task requires touching things at two places. <scott-work> i saw that we would need to add a .desc file under /share/blah/tasksel to be included <TheMuso> No. <scott-work> i worried that the README was wrong about this (think it was probably for debian) <TheMuso> Yes, its for Debian. <scott-work> okay, i also saw that we should file a bug report to add the task <scott-work> this is for ubuntu? <TheMuso> Yes <TheMuso> We don't need to file a bug to add tasks to the disks. <scott-work> where are the two places that are touched for every new tasks? <TheMuso> We just need to contact Colin to ask him to add new tasks to the limit lists. <TheMuso> 1. We create a new seed file in the bzr branch, with appropriate fields at the top, as well as a list of packages we want that task/package to depend on. <TheMuso> 2. We add the new task to the limit list for Ubuntu Studio in the disk build code. <scott-work> right, that makes sense <scott-work> we define it in the meta and colin adds it to the list <scott-work> i understand that if we are installing the package the task must be listed elsewhere for tasksel to install it <TheMuso> Once the above 2 steps are done, the disk build process takes care of the rest. <scott-work> so, we _could_ define numerous tasks within the metapackage, but only include the necessary ones for installing the appropriate metapackages <scott-work> in the limit list <scott-work> TheMuso: how would you recommend updating the audio metapackage for separating into -recording, -generating, -common (and maybe -performance)? just make tasks within the -audio
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