#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-01 <sittisal> is there enybody in there? <lmanul> Yeah :) <sittisal> so wath about dapper graphics changes? <sittisal> ubutu has the same ugly desktop since 4.10 <sittisal> in 2006... <theCore> hello all! <plb> anyone know of an application to make custom mouse themes? <plb> I was thinking of doing something like this.... <plb> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=135832 #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-02 <Tm_T> hallo! #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-04 <Tm_T> fiuuuuu #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-05 <theCore> hello world <neoginn> yo <neoginn> anyone know where i can download ubuntu artwork??? <Garuma> hello everyone (or good night) <Garuma> is there a member of the art team here ? <lapo> hi <lapo> hey guys, I've seen te dappericons preview, nice set, but considering that more and more apps are adopting a tango stylish icon why don't following tango guidelines? <lapo> those icons can be made tangoish with small tweakings and the whole desktop experience will benefit from it #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-06 <artnay> hey guys <artnay> about the new icons... did tigert anything to do with them? <artnay> btw, they look quite good although they don <artnay> t follow tango style or hig that closely <artnay> does anybody have any idea do the action icons inherit tango? :o <artnay> that would make sense <artnay> quiet as always :) <artnay> so how can we as a team help with that? is any help wanted or needed? <derek[] > with what? <artnay> while I am happy to see those, they leave a lot of questions :o <artnay> with the new icon set <derek[] > gnome? <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperIcons <artnay> I don <artnay> t get why those arent under /Artwokr <artnay> what is that icon with the text file and a progress bar in front of it? <artnay> good to see that universal signs (such as usb) are being used, not to mention text on cd media icons <artnay> I disliked the different colour approach, it doesnt tell enough <artnay> derek[] : what do you think of those? <derek[] > I agree that the use of the universal signs as the USB's is very good. <artnay> but it is against some rules :o <derek[] > which? <artnay> well maybe not that but at least all the "unnecessary" text is <artnay> HIG <artnay> and wiki states too that no text should be used if it is not needed <artnay> but I for one say that it is much more better to have an extension than lots of different colours to differ each file types <artnay> people should not learn that ones mp3 player is not able to play "blue and yellow" audio files <derek[] > I would say that if they make the colour scheme a standard, then it can be helpful <derek[] > but if the colour scheme keeps changing in every release, it serves no purpose <derek[] > Who is developing this artwork by the way? <artnay> my bet it is tigert <artnay> as mark said at LCA that the artist will come from scandinavia, and looking gregory37@example.net... <artnay> if only the colour scheme would be identical at least in FOSS icons <artnay> freedesktop.org ;o <derek[] > I don't know who/what is tigert, mark, LCA.. <artnay> tigert did the old gnome icon theme, mark is sabdfl (the man behind canonical and freecd etc.) and LCA was a linux conference in ausrtalia (held in january) <artnay> I guess freedesktop.org doesn't have a word on MIME colours <artnay> please prove me wrong <lapo> hi there #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-07 <klepas> anyone awake? <klepas> ... <klepas> artnay: ping <klepas> miketech: ping <klepas> Tm_T: ping <klepas> bach_skol: ping <klepas> maswan: ping <klepas> omeg: ping <Tm_T> klepas: pong <klepas> yay, someone <klepas> have you read the recent mails? <Tm_T> nails? <Tm_T> ;( <Tm_T> what mails <maswan> I have read lots of recent mails. Don't know what you are talking about though, klepas <jsgotangco> klepas: you might want to consider adding the artwork with the example-content package <jsgotangco> there are currently 3 or 4 wallpapers on it taken from art.ubuntu.com i believe <klepas> anyone awake? <andreasn> oh, this channel do exist <andreasn> is the default mail client for dapper thunderbird or evolution? <andreasn> thinking of adding the tango tb-theme to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/AdditionalThemes <lukacu> i think its evolution <andreasn> ok #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-08 * netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net <klepas> hey <jsgotangco> hi <lapo> hi <lukacu> a bit late but: hi :) <andreasn> when is this weekend-meeting supposed to start? <andreasn> I never understood what timezone and stuff it was supposed to be <lukacu> GMT timezone <andreasn> ah, ok <klepas> just sometime <klepas> :) <klepas> mark and i thought this would be a good method <klepas> and we were willing to try it out :) <andreasn> hello klepas <lukacu> so there is no fixed time yet? <klepas> not really <klepas> just 'the weekend' <klepas> :) <lukacu> oh, and on #ubuntu-meeting? <klepas> no <klepas> since there is no designated time <lukacu> here then? <klepas> we don't want to disturb that [sacred] channel <klepas> :) <lukacu> lol <klepas> here, yea :) <lukacu> ok <klepas> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3880195342.html <-- cute idea <lukacu> :) <klepas> lukacu: i'm going to blog about this.. <klepas> i was hoping to stick some sort of cute image into the entry <klepas> to sort of entice people <klepas> chance you've got any icons that would be nice to add? <lukacu> what kind of icons? <klepas> just something cute :) <klepas> anything really <klepas> if you've got something i can add to a ~445x445 image <lukacu> um ... no <klepas> no worries then <klepas> how about wallpapers? <klepas> i've got this sort of weird thumbnailing idea <klepas> any nice wallpapers? <lapo> gnome-backgrounds <klepas> sure <klepas> it would be nice if i could get 4 <klepas> i've got one already <klepas> 3 more, preferably ubuntu/kubuntu flavoured <lapo> klepas, I mean gnome-backgrounds package <klepas> oh <klepas> what about it? <klepas> oh <klepas> i getcha <lapo> we have a pretty nice collection this time <klepas> yea :) <klepas> i was after something more Ubuntu/Kubuntu flavoured <lukacu> bbl <jimmac> howdy <lukacu> hi jimmac #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-09 <lapo> hi <lapo> er, hi <andreasn> hello again lapo <lapo> ciao andreasn <klepas> moin <justin__k> hi all, as anyone put their hand up for art team leader yet? <justin__k> i nominate pascal <kamstrup> Does anybody here know if there are performance differences between metacity themes? <kamstrup> I wan't a really light one. <kamstrup> for the SandSkater theme <artnay> kamstrup: there is some performance issues with some themes, which ones are you thinking? <artnay> klepas: hey :) <kamstrup> artnay: I have a few in mind. CHeck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SandSkater <kamstrup> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/SandSkater <kamstrup> that was <artnay> I'm quite sure it will be quite lightweight no matter which one you choose of those <artnay> kamstrup: if bg is too much for computer, maybe one should use something like IceWM or *box :p <kamstrup> No way artnay :) <kamstrup> I'm running Gnome on my 700MHz box <kamstrup> A solid background gives a pretty noticable speed gain <kamstrup> as does the thinice gtk engine <kamstrup> :) <kamstrup> Things are pretty snappy infact <artnay> I'm on P3 500 MHz & 128 MB now <kamstrup> hehe <kamstrup> You know the feeling then <artnay> damn it's taking long from asus to replace mobo <artnay> have you guys found any performance tests between SVG and PNG rendering on low-end computers? <artnay> I've seen some tests but they were run on fast computer (> 2 GHz) <kamstrup> hmmm <kamstrup> no <kamstrup> do you have any ideas on how to do that? <artnay> generally PNG should be more ideal to your project <kamstrup> I would guess so <kamstrup> but I'm not sure <kamstrup> Still Life is png, and has some of the qualities I'm looking for. <artnay> too bad it's not offered as SVGs, too <kamstrup> it will require a good deal of work to get into shape <kamstrup> yes <kamstrup> that would ease modifications <artnay> maybe you could ask the author for SVG/XCF/PSD <artnay> shouldn't we create a subcategory for proposed themes? <artnay> to wiki <artnay> I mean, wiki is quite a chaos at the moment IMHO <artnay> and henrik mentioned removing ToDo list... I think that would be a bad idea since there's no any other page that covers all the information <artnay> that's why there should be separate pages for different *buntus <artnay> no offence but I think we should renew many parts of /Artwork <artnay> is there really any reason to have a separate official section? why isn't the new icon set covered there? is it official? that kind of questions might raise to people new to ubuntu-artwork <artnay> btw, who is working on that icon set? tigert? <artnay> AndyFitz: do you happen to have any idea of that? :o <artnay> I find it rather funny that they ask people to send comments to artwork team when artwork team is as much informed as anybody else <artnay> lapo: I see you've been highlighting me ~a week ago :o <artnay> I'm quite surprised while reading ubuntu-artwork ML (march list) <artnay> have you checked the archive? <andreasn> artnay: drew what theme? <artnay> andreasn: umh, pardon? <andreasn> "btw, who is working on that icon set? tigert?" <artnay> yeah, the official icon set which came out of blue <klepas> andreasn: someone hired <klepas> by canonical <artnay> from scandinavia as has been said earlier (a month ago) <andreasn> I have no idea who it is, but it's not tigert. He's working for Nokia now <artnay> my guess it's tigert since he's past is somewhat gnome and art centric and he's from finland (scandinavia) <artnay> but one could always have some hobbyist projects on freetime, if it's a passion ;9 <andreasn> I think tigert would have refused doing anything else but a tango-set <artnay> it's surprising what money can do <andreasn> but if it is him, he hasn't mentioned it at all <artnay> there's such thing as NDA <artnay> but that goes against CoC <artnay> lots of nice acronyms, umh <klepas> have you guys had a look at the proposed theme packages that the art team could begin and maintain? <klepas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/AdditionalThemes <andreasn> Tango also has a Thunderbird theme, but I wasn't sure if I should add that or not <artnay> klepas: sure have <andreasn> to the wiki-page <klepas> andreasn: add it to the list <artnay> but the thing is, that we're already three months late <klepas> i want to put myself forth as a maintainer/leader/person who works on a complete Tango package for Ubuntu <andreasn> klepas: sound great! <klepas> so everything from GDM to splash to GTK to Metacity to Firefox and Thunderbird themes... etc. <klepas> and wallpapers <klepas> and finally, of course the icon set <andreasn> a lot of apps are starting to use tango upstream now <andreasn> latest f-spot, banshee etc. <klepas> we also want to decide on a new art team leadeer <artnay> klepas: there's no reason to decide it now <klepas> not right now <klepas> but within the next week <artnay> once someone who has all the time and skill to be responsible comes out, then it's time <artnay> at the moment there really doesn't seem to such person <artnay> at least not on IRC <klepas> artnay: yourself? <artnay> klepas: sorry, I doubt that big time <klepas> andyfitz <klepas> maybe not in time wise <artnay> neither of us have the time needed <klepas> but hey, things change :) <artnay> hopefully they do <klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/thb-ubuntu-splashes.png <artnay> I find it rather strange that mark used quite strong words on the ML <klepas> yea <klepas> well considering i met him <klepas> and he gave me a lift back to my home town <artnay> to me it seems canonical really didn't care for artwork until they woke up some time ago <klepas> we had a chance to talk <klepas> and now i sort of got annoyed at what we agreed upon :) <klepas> my fault :) <artnay> since volvoguy and I have sent many emails considering ubuntu-artwork, and we haven't received replies... <klepas> brb <artnay> volvoguy sent a few mails in july, I did send back is august or september <artnay> and mark also states that there has to be somebody who tells what to do with ubuntu-artwork (project leader), although it's been said that artwork team doesn't have a word on artwork that will be on the ubuntu CD media <artnay> so I'd say that canonical should have publicized the much spoken branding guide (stating what they want from ubuntu-artwork) which would have helped artwork team to set the priorites <artnay> and that way co-operation would have been possible <artnay> since I really see no person outside of canonical who would have the influence to say what artwork team should focus and work on <artnay> what do you guys think? <andreasn> perhaps the reason that the artwork-team has no influence is because canonial don't trust that the team can produce good stuff <andreasn> hm, need to run sonn <andreasn> as a contributor to the tango project and a ubuntu user, I think it would be cool if the artwork team could work together with the community we build around tango <andreasn> to make it not only a novell dominated project <andreasn> but that is just me thinking aloud :) <andreasn> time to run <andreasn> I'll be back in a couple of hours <klepas> artnay: hey <artnay> klepas: pong <klepas> reploed <lapo> hi <klepas> anyone awake? <kamstrup> klepas: aye <klepas> hey, cool <klepas> what are your thoughts on the themed package ideas <klepas> for universe <klepas> and one which is of top notch for mainstream, if it's good enough? <kamstrup> hmmm <kamstrup> it's hard when we don't have anython really concrete atm <kamstrup> I think there's been a bit too much of <kamstrup> "hey this icon theme is cool, hey this gtk theme is cool - let's stick them together and call it a theme" <klepas> yep <klepas> i think we can be safe though <klepas> to say that Tango could do with a complete Ubuntu (GNOME) and Kubuntu (KDE) pacakge <kamstrup> Tango should definitely be used... <klepas> i'm putting myself up as a person who would be willing to work on that <klepas> given that some work needs to be done <klepas> i'm going to spend all of this weekend compiling some sort of coherent Ubuntu Tango package <klepas> There would need to be a GNOME and KDE package (Ubuntu and Kubuntu) with GDM/KDM, splash screen, wallpaper(s), GTK/KDE themes, Metacity/KDE window decoration themes and finally the icon sets. One official, complete Tango package. <klepas> eventually both <klepas> but i'll do the ubuntu (GNOME one) this weekend <klepas> what do you think kamstrup <klepas> interested in helping out in the tango one <artnay> klepas: in which areas would like to have a helping hand? <klepas> well basically <klepas> i want to get a Tango set together <klepas> by Sunday eve <klepas> starting with the GNOME stuff <klepas> GTK, Metacity, icon set, splash screen and maybe about 2-5 wallpapers <klepas> all Tango <artnay> I might be able to help you tomorrow, I'm leaving soon to this place: http://www.pacifique.fi/home.shtml x) <klepas> yea <klepas> i had a look at that <klepas> damn <klepas> pretty sassy <lapo> hi <kamstrup> klepas: sorry for keeping you... <kamstrup> I'll spend most of my time on the SandSkater theme <kamstrup> but i like the idea <kamstrup> ofcourse :) <kamstrup> it is Tango after all :) <kamstrup> klepas: will you go ubuntu brown? <klepas> for the tango things? <klepas> no <klepas> because it's tango <klepas> the themes _do not_ have even follow the Ubuntu colour schema <klepas> they are different themes in their own right <lapo> I think ubuntu should follow tango color shcema, and tango is not a theme <lapo> tango is actually a bunch of guidelines to make application of various different enviroment looks nice side by side, the icons are a consequences of it <lapo> tango is more a style than a theme <klepas> yes <klepas> but in this case we need to play along with the rules <kamstrup> there is brown colors in the tango palette <kamstrup> is=are <klepas> so Ubuntu will feature it's own colour schema, icon set, and so forth <klepas> and we get to create themed-packages <lapo> kamstrup: yes, very similar to ubuntu ones <kamstrup> exactly <klepas> one or two of which, if good could end up in mainstream as additional choices <lapo> klepas: i don't know if this is the right course of action <lapo> doing a complete theme is almost impossible <lapo> you kno how many icons should be in a theme to make it really complete, and so offer a good desktop experience? <lapo> ugh...I'll rephrase it <lapo> do you know how many icons should be in a theme to make it really complete, and so offer a good desktop experience? <klepas> a lot <klepas> and tango has the best chance of ever completing that <klepas> i don't think that Ubuntu should have it's own icon set <klepas> making a completely new icon set <klepas> that is complete <klepas> will take year <lapo> if you have a really cool theme not following tango guidelines, you'll have a bunch of cool icons not integrated with the rest of the desktop <klepas> *years <klepas> yes! <klepas> of course <lapo> exactly <klepas> but no one will listen <lapo> why? <klepas> because they've already hired people <klepas> and we don't get to say "let's use tango" as the art team <klepas> we can't <klepas> so <klepas> we get to make themed-packages <lapo> where's the problem, can't the hider people follow the tango guidelines? <lapo> hired even <klepas> one or two of which might be included with the CD as additional choices <lapo> consider that the next gnome icon theme will be tango styled <klepas> because people higher up have decided to make something completely new <klepas> lapo: i know <lapo> you can make something completely new following the tango guidelines, iy's not really a problem <klepas> this is what both Andy and I have been trying to get other people to understand <klepas> it'll take far too long to make something new <lapo> have you ever used redhat/fedora? <klepas> and it won't ever be complete in the time we have <klepas> seen it extensively <klepas> used it several times <klepas> i know, blue curve <klepas> however this doesn't help us <klepas> we don't have any other options <klepas> what these folks higher up would like <lapo> blue curve is one of the most complete and cool icons theme around <klepas> are themed-packages <klepas> one of them ought to be tango <lapo> but it doesn't blend well with the rest 'cause you have gnome/kde icons with it <klepas> a complete tango package for both the GNOME (Ubuntu) and KDE (Kubuntu) dekstop <klepas> eventually it will <klepas> these themed-packages would include everything from icon sets to splash screens to wallpapers to GTK themed to metacity themes and so forth <klepas> that is what we're doing <klepas> and i would like to get at least a Tango package up and running <klepas> so, how does that sound? <lapo> that's cool, but I repeat I fear the new dapper icon theme will be a new bluecurve :-/ <lapo> a theme impossible to complete that will be dropped in the futere <lapo> future even <klepas> i fear the same <klepas> the best way to show people that there is a way to make a consistent desktop <klepas> is use tango <klepas> or a variant <lapo> there's alredy a community around tango, there's alredy good guideline, ad there's alredy lots of icons <klepas> and the easiest way to do that is to make a package that will be added at least to universe <lapo> consider lot of application are using tango icons <lapo> I mean upstream <klepas> lapo: these themed-paclages <klepas> can be added almost instantly to the universe repo <klepas> if they are complete and good <klepas> this could be in universe by next week <klepas> we just need to get some more work together <lapo> my point is that's impossible to build a complete theme <artnay> discussion, finally. hi guys. <lapo> way too many icon to do <klepas> so <klepas> does anyone have any tango-themed SVG wallpapers? <klepas> or splash screens for that matter <artnay> klepas: umh, so you basically want to make a debian package out of it. do you know how many of people involved in tango project are using ubuntu as well? <klepas> no idea <klepas> but at least 5 <klepas> :) <klepas> artnay: that's the deal <klepas> with all these themed-packages <klepas> that's what mark would love <artnay> you might want to ask these people (including people who are offering themes for other programs such as fx and tb) to get involved in this <lapo> svg is not that good for wallpapers klepas <klepas> check the irc channel <klepas> i've asked a few times <artnay> klepas: sure, but I have not seen any comments yet <klepas> yep <klepas> hence why i'm here <artnay> really? I must have missed that then <Tm_T> artnay: ! <artnay> hey Tm_T <Tm_T> you idler <artnay> tell me about it... I really haven't had a computer for the last two months <artnay> only occasionally <Tm_T> shame on you! * Tm_T keeps kicking artnays arse <artnay> klepas: so would you use tango with defaults? (no any alternations using ubuntu palette etc.) <lapo> klepas: regarding tango people using ubuntu, andreasn and jimmac (don't tell novell :-)) use ubuntu, surelly others <artnay> I think it's ok that canonical hired an artist, but the whole thing with ubuntu-artwork is really confusing, I'd say <artnay> it has been since the beginning <Tm_T> aye <artnay> artwork team was formed, umh, a month or two before breezy? <Tm_T> who's doing and what? what should be one and when? where's my pants btw <artnay> I ate your pants <Tm_T> ah then <artnay> that's the only thing I know ;) <klepas> artnay: yea, i'd use tango like it is <artnay> I think it's against CoC what's happening with the icon set, although I can take that (you know, let him/her have artistical freedom for now etc.) <klepas> once inkscape css support stuff comes in changing icon set colouration ought to be a breezye <klepas> *breeze <artnay> but the thing is that didn't co-operate hard enough before that, so it's better than nothing <klepas> so applying the Ubuntu colour scheme would be easy <lapo> klepas: uhm <lapo> the ubuntu color scheme should die imho <klepas> "01:38 < lapo> the ubuntu color scheme should die imho" - this channel is logged :P <artnay> oh, the renewed human theme... edges get pixelated <lapo> changing a the colors in an icon can't be done automagically, css or not <artnay> although fc5 has too :/ <artnay> lapo: that's basically what andy is doing at the moment, offering icons and he lefts colours to be decided by someone else <artnay> since the same thing is happening with tango <klepas> so... <klepas> is someone willing to pitch in with this Tango package? <artnay> some people really dislike the colour of folder and wastebasket in tango <lapo> artnay: basically only a bunch of icons may need a color change, so I think it's easier to do it manually, and doing an icon theme that inherits tango then <artnay> lapo: yeah, in some occasions <artnay> if you need to change the colour of folder icon, it could be done easily with css support <lapo> and not all the icons are svg <lapo> artnay: and what will you do for the pngs? <artnay> but if there's already fx tango theme done, why change all the action icons? <artnay> they're most commonly used <lapo> frankly speaking I think it's a waste of goo energy, but it's only my humble opinion <artnay> if they would be the same, artwork team should do only minor changes to tango themes <artnay> since there really isn't much people involved in this and we didnt even have any goals set a month ago or so * klepas pokes <lapo> artnay: toi do an "ubuntization" of tango you don't really need a lot of people <lapo> since the icons yo would want to repleace are not that much <lapo> let's say 10-15? <artnay> lapo: yeah, but it's not just the icons as you mentioned before (blue curve) <artnay> lapo: and that's the problem, "the icons I want to replace" :) <artnay> nobody cares which icon I'm thinking of, the decision should come somewhere else (as a team maybe, canonical, who knows) <artnay> that's been the trouble, we all have our ideas but creating a working process out of it has been a mess <artnay> if you look at the list, people aren't co-operating. that's why I suggested to seek for help from tango oriented people <lapo> I don't follow ubuntu's list sorry <artnay> some examples... bvc is having fun with metacity themes but how many times have you spoken to him? what about this nikolai (medicine mask)? at least andy is here :) <lapo> I am a tango oriented guyt and I'm here to help, btw :-) <artnay> there's lots of decent artwork, we should just utilize it <lapo> there isn't some sort of artistic director in ubuntu? <artnay> no, there hasn't been since volvoguy <lapo> where's this volvoguy? <artnay> and if you take into account what happened when team formed, there really hasn't been artwork process to the day <artnay> he had some health problems, you might want ask him <artnay> he's recovering at the moment <Tm_T> hmm hmm <Tm_T> artnay: who? <artnay> Tm_T: aaron <artnay> a.k.a volvoguy <Tm_T> aah <Tm_T> I remember him <Tm_T> artnay: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png <Tm_T> ;( <artnay> how come my sentences are missing verbs most of the time... :) <artnay> too many things to be done <Tm_T> haha * Tm_T is still eating painkillers <Tm_T> so I'm not in my sharpest knife <artnay> Tm_T: KDE is great with altering KWin bordering <Tm_T> and also my Kicker is bit unusual <Tm_T> oh, you haven't seen my kmenu? <Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/temp/kmenu-1.png <klepas> Aaron Michael Waite <Tm_T> best in KDE: make it look yourself <artnay> is that something eatable? I want more customizable menu <Tm_T> artnay: more? <artnay> the shots by novell (G) looked interesting <Tm_T> nah <artnay> Tm_T: I'd like to have some other concept, that's it. umh, maybe KDE 4? :o <Tm_T> aye <Tm_T> KDE4 will be a lot different <artnay> klepas: do you have any idea to whom has this UI shapeout has been assigned in london? <artnay> klepas: I only find "we" etc. <klepas> no idea <klepas> you're up early AndyFitz <AndyFitz> about to head to bed klepas :-) just finishing my green and gold slurpee <AndyFitz> its awesome to find those colours in slurpee . apparently is a commonwealth games promotion <klepas> cool <klepas> i'm working on a tango gdm <AndyFitz> awesome mate <AndyFitz> thanks <leetcharmer> hihi all :D <leetcharmer> how's the art weekend going? <artnay> hi leetcharmer. if you look at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/irclogs/ (ctrl f artwork), you'll find that there's been more discussion today than during the whole last week... ;) <artnay> so better than nothing, eh? <leetcharmer> ya! <leetcharmer> I heart the new icons! <leetcharmer> so -- is there going to be a UI change? or is that frozen? <artnay> there was artwork freeze back in breezy development days, but if you look at the schedule now, no <artnay> it's not frozen <leetcharmer> ahh, kk -- well -- I'm trying to get the hang of Inkscape -- but I have GIMP skills, have anything you'd like me to make? <artnay> klepas will pack tango, do you think you could help him? <leetcharmer> what can I do for him? <lapo> nobody here is in touch with the payed artist who's doing icons for canonical? <artnay> have a chat with klepas <artnay> lapo: ironically, no <artnay> I expectec some guys from canonical to pop up <leetcharmer> klepas: do you need any help? <artnay> leetcharmer: he does :) <lapo> artnay: do you mean today? <leetcharmer> :D <artnay> lapo: on the weekend <artnay> but I'm leaving soon <lapo> isn't now the weekend? :-) <artnay> party will begin in 45 minutes <leetcharmer> oh? <artnay> lapo: I guess it's weekend everywhere now, yeah. some patience ;) <leetcharmer> :D <Tm_T> artnay: hey, you were doing colour scheme etc earlier, right? never got anything finished? <artnay> Tm_T: what colour scheme? <artnay> actually I wasn't working with colour theme, just using one :p <Tm_T> erh <Tm_T> pics! <Tm_T> artnay: give me screenshot or something about it :) <artnay> well there's that one in forums, but it's months old <Tm_T> just throw link to me then <artnay> and as that computer's mobo has been dead for the last two months, I haven't done anything with it (was doing moodin KDM theme) <artnay> now I'm finally with my P3 500 MHz & 128 MB for the last two days <artnay> internet, I so missed you <artnay> :P <leetcharmer> :D <leetcharmer> :/ gotta put my computer back together so I can restore his HDD's data -- bbl :D <artnay> finally my friends are driving here to pick me up <klepas> sleep time <klepas> cheerio <heno> Hello all! <heno> Anybody want to help me find some aye-candy for the website? <lapo> hi <heno> We recently cleaned up this page a bit: http://www.ubuntu.com/community <heno> by removing much text and adding some icons <heno> we are planning to do the same on other pages too <heno> so good ideas for little icons and graphics would be helpful <lapo> heno: canonical? <heno> lapo: yes * heno is Henrik Omma <lapo> cool, may I talk to youabout new dappericons? <lapo> I think you guys you should develope new dapper icons following the tango guidelines <lapo> there are a lot advantages in it <lapo> * better desktop experience trough bette integration (many apps are using a tango style icon upstream) <lapo> * less icons to develope (you can change only the revelant icons for branding and inherit the rest) <lapo> * tango has already a nice community <heno> I don't know the tango specs that well, but it sounds sensible <heno> Someone should start a 'transition to Tango' spec for the next conferance <lapo> when I saw new dapper icons on ubuntu wiki, I tried to tangoify them a bit just to proove what I'm saying <lapo> those icons can be "tangoified" with really few efforts <lapo> check it out: <lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/dappericons/side-by-side.png <lapo> the tango guidelines are well defined and simple, following them crating new icons is not really difficult <heno> Cool! You really should post that on the wiki <lapo> consider that doing a *complete* icon theme is not really possible <lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/dappericons/dappericons-tango-style-blending.png <heno> I think your icons ook better in many cases <heno> more interesting perspective <lapo> I did those icons only to prove what I'm saying I have no time to do a full set <lapo> but canonical, could make their artists follow the tango guidelines <lapo> or look for someone on the tango-artists ml who could do the icons <lapo> I have to go now, if you need help you can find me on irc on #tango, or you can mail me calamandrei at gmail <lapo> ciao <andreasn> hello #ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-10 <klepas> sunday morning <Tm_T> ouch <lapo> hi <klepas> chance we could pool what people have been working together? <klepas> into a sort of giant collection <klepas> and then mark and whoever else can have a look at what was produced <andreasn> hello klepas <klepas> hey andreasn <klepas> how's it going? <andreasn> just fine. Working on tangofication of thunderbird for the moment <klepas> cool <klepas> working on a sort of GDM <andreasn> cool <andreasn> tango-ubuntu-ish? <klepas> yea <klepas> andreasn: i need some tango wallpapers <klepas> SVG <andreasn> sure <klepas> i can only find the JPEGs and PNGs <klepas> chance you could point me to some? <klepas> these would go into an official universe tango package <andreasn> I see <andreasn> wouldn't it be cooler to put ubuntu-branding on these instead? <andreasn> I just did the wallpaper for fun <klepas> nah <klepas> this is as a complete tango package for ubuntu <klepas> doesn't have to follow any ubuntu branding <klepas> colour schemas, etc. <klepas> just a complete tango package to go into the repositories <klepas> including metacity, gdm, splash, wallpapers, icon set, etc.. <andreasn> what would the target group of that package be? <klepas> anyone who wants to completely tango-ify their desktop <andreasn> I see <klepas> mark wants these sort of themed-packages <klepas> i figured one of them ought to be Tango <andreasn> yeah <andreasn> the ones I want to be aware of tango is developers <klepas> so <andreasn> not end-users <klepas> yea, same <andreasn> but, well, anyway <klepas> but mark would like these packages <klepas> can work on that later <andreasn> I'll see if I can locate the wallpaper <klepas> so, got some SVG splashes or wallpapers? <klepas> cheers mate :) <andreasn> it seems the link on art.gnome.org is broken <andreasn> there is a tango-splash on kde-look that I made that perhaps is reusable <andreasn> I might have the svg around <andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/tango-desktop-1024.svg <andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/splash-top.svg <klepas> yes <klepas> thanks mate <andreasn> however, I don't want to make the impression that tango is the road to all branding, be sure to point that out to mark <klepas> i was up till 4 am this morning trying to find this <andreasn> road to the end of all branding in distros I mean <klepas> yea <klepas> i agree with you guys <andreasn> great! <klepas> but sadly we don't have much of a say in this <andreasn> I know <klepas> so for now <klepas> a bunch of themed packages <andreasn> putting it in extras is a good start <klepas> one of which will make it into mainstream perhaps <klepas> if it is good enough <klepas> will have to be the start <klepas> and i think Tango ought to be that extra package <klepas> and if not, it would make it into universe <klepas> and i'll maintain it <andreasn> it would also be nice to customize some of the icons in tango to fit better with the brown desktop background <andreasn> orange folders and stuff like that <andreasn> as blue goes horribly bad together with brown <andreasn> have you got the tango-firefox theme already? <andreasn> https://addons.mozilla.org/themes/moreinfo.php?id=1565&application=firefox <klepas> yea <klepas> got it <andreasn> great <klepas> nah, don't need to customise the icons <klepas> because the package will include tango wallpapers :) <klepas> everything tango <andreasn> ok <andreasn> hopefully the tb-theme will be working good soon aswell <klepas> you're working on that now? <andreasn> yep <andreasn> some of the theming-stuff is rather horrible <klepas> :) <klepas> thanks dude <andreasn> hidden in some random file deep-deep-down... :( <andreasn> :) <klepas> this GDM ought to be kick ass <andreasn> nice <andreasn> would you like to have a sample of the tb-theme? <andreasn> might help me find some bugs <klepas> yea <klepas> sure <klepas> andreasn: you wouldn't know how to test out gdm themes using xnest? <andreasn> I have no idea actually :( <klepas> no worries <andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/thunderbird.jar <klepas> i'll figure it out <klepas> my version of thunderbird must be outdated <klepas> icons won't work with it <andreasn> you need 1.5 to run it <klepas> not in universe <klepas> mh <klepas> might have to get it from source <klepas> how did you get it? <andreasn> it is in dapper universe <andreasn> I think <klepas> ah, okay <klepas> i was considering upgrading to dapper <klepas> is it stable enough? <andreasn> it works ok for me <andreasn> but I was mostly upgrading because I needed thunderbird 1.5 <andreasn> to theme it and stuff <andreasn> and dapper also include f-spot with the new tango icons jakub drew <klepas> nice <andreasn> fresher icons for banshee and other stuff aswell <andreasn> and a working version of hplip as I'm drawing icons for that app aswell <andreasn> so I guess you could say that my reason for upgrading to dapper was icons ;) <klepas> yay <klepas> got gdm testing working <klepas> andreasn: fair reason if you're an artist :) <andreasn> heh, yeah <klepas> curse poor SVG gradient support in GDM! <andreasn> librsvg? <klepas> is that the package that controls SVG rendering? <andreasn> it is in most other gnome apps <andreasn> and it must be in gdm aswell, but I'm not sure <klepas> andreasn: this GDM theme is soon done :) <klepas> andreasn: do you know where i can find the SVG to that other dark blue-ish Tango wallpaper with the massive folder in it? <klepas> andreasn: done! <klepas> andreasn: i just need a decent background <klepas> anyone awake? <klepas> andreasn: ping <andreasn> klepas: pong <andreasn> klepas: neat <klepas> andreasn: you've seen it? <klepas> [http://wombat.nuxified.com/tmpfiles/tango-renewed-screenshot.jpg] <omeg> That is very nice. <omeg> I do, however, suggest that the contrast of the Tango! title is changed. <omeg> It's currently white on light grey (except for the shadow). <klepas> omeg: yea <omeg> The small text in that image is also really small. I personally would make it a little larger. <omeg> Maybe that would help the hinting, too. <klepas> good point <omeg> Did you make that, by the way? <klepas> i fear though with the 'tango!' logo that changing it to black will make it stand out way too much <klepas> yea <klepas> artwork sprint after all :) <klepas> before i hit the sacks tonight i want to get another one done <omeg> Well, it's nice. :) And I'm glad that not _everything_ is made to be brown. I mean, sure, brown is Ubuntu's color, but I think that it's usually a little overused. <klepas> this was for the Tango package <omeg> I would have a look at finding a solution to that Tango! logo for you, but you probably made it in GIMP, right? <klepas> because the other GDM wasn't to my liking <klepas> no <omeg> Photoshop? <klepas> everything you see in the screenshot is either XML or SVG <klepas> Inkscape <klepas> everything <omeg> Ah, then I could open it in Illustrator, maybe... <klepas> which dramatically reduces the total package size <omeg> If you want me to, that is. <klepas> yea, sure <klepas> one moment <klepas> i'll upload it <omeg> Cool :) <klepas> i wanted this to be entirely SVG also so that people won't have to worry about having this or that of a good size for their monitors <omeg> I'm encoding video at the moment. Illustrator sure is taking a long time to start... <omeg> Yeah, good call. I wonder when X's interface will be fully in Vector. <omeg> Vista and Mac OS X 10.5 are going to be entirely in vector, right? Can't have X stay behind :P <klepas> even highlighting from the dulled icons to the full colour ones as mouseover is vector :) <klepas> Vista is i think <klepas> though whether it will be as complete as their predecessor icon sets... is another question <andreasn> klepas: how much stuff will this package include <omeg> I still sometimes see Win95 icons in XP. <klepas> no point releasing a Windows Vista icon set that is scalable when there are so many other gif ones <klepas> omeg: yea, precisely <andreasn> will it also ship tangofied icons to apps like kopete and konqueror? <klepas> andreasn: a full list will include: <klepas> ... <klepas> yes <klepas> i hope <klepas> it will take a while <omeg> What do you think about the icons that showed up on the mailing list? <klepas> which is why it will be a package in universe at the minimum <klepas> pretty good <omeg> The ones that Mark presented? I think that it's too bad that apparently _everything_ needs to have a color brown in it, or else it's "not Ubuntu enough". <klepas> andreasn: full list (hoep I'm not missing anything, and this is for Ubuntu, so GNOME for now): GDM, Metacity, GTK (if one is made and acceptable), splash screen, the icon set, wallpapers and app icons <klepas> omeg: ah well <andreasn> klepas: and ff and tb <klepas> ah, yes <klepas> and Gaim emotes <omeg> I liked the Gnome v2 icons. I guess that I'll be able to revert the Ubuntu 6.04 icons to Gnome v2 pretty easily, though. <klepas> and for the Kubuntu one, will have kopete emotes <klepas> actually <klepas> i had a look at the gaim emotes todayu <klepas> there were some errors in the package <klepas> though i cannot remember who did them <andreasn> I think the icons mark presented is nice, needs to follow the tango guidelines a bit better though to blend in with stuff upstream <klepas> yep <omeg> There's one thing that I don't like about the Tango set. <klepas> and would do better if it were given to the community as accessable SVGs <omeg> And it's the folder icon. Which is too bad, since it's the single most important icon. <andreasn> omeg: the color? <klepas> omeg: change it <omeg> I've been working on making a replacement but I doubt they'll ever accept it. <klepas> or propose another <klepas> :) <omeg> Yeah, I'm working on it :) <klepas> hehe <andreasn> omeg: can I see? <klepas> i don't like the home icon <omeg> I've been making it at work, so I'm not sure if I have it here. But I want to change what I have around anyway. Let me see if I have it. <klepas> omeg: http://wombat.nuxified.com/tmpfiles/tango-renewed-gdm.tar.gz <omeg> Ah yeah, I have it. Making a PNG... <klepas> chance someone would be able to provide some temporary websapce? <klepas> to just upload all the art done this weekend? <klepas> just temp <andreasn> klepas: sure <klepas> less than 8 MB <klepas> i would presume <klepas> but bandwidth... not sure <klepas> depends on how popular it gets <klepas> andreasn: that would be kick ass <omeg> http://www.whahay.net/pubaccess/__folder_wip.png <omeg> Right now, the problem is that it's made for a high size. It kind of falls very flat when seen in that size, especially due to the very narrow lines. <klepas> doesn't follow Tango guidelines much though <omeg> It needs much more clear and big lines to adhere to Tango specifications. <klepas> so somewhat inconsistent <omeg> Yeah. To be honest, I didn't make this for Tango. I made it for a CMS that a programmer is gregory37@example.net. But I've been meaning to use this as base for a Tango icon. <klepas> ah cool <klepas> omeg: did you get the tarball? <andreasn> omeg: the biggest reason we don't want to change the folder in the base-set right now is that there are too many places we need to change it in <klepas> i didn't check whether it uploaded rihgt <klepas> andreasn: and a lot of other people use it already <klepas> such as subTango <omeg> I got it, klepas. <klepas> :) <andreasn> omeg: like folder-new, home-folder, folder-remote etc. in all three sizes <omeg> That would be less than a day's work if you have a new folder base. <klepas> somewhat of a problem though for the modules on the net that have begun to use Tango <klepas> http://gnomedev.com/ <klepas> like Daniel's and my phpbb theme <omeg> I don't think that's a valid reason to not substitute one icon for a better one. <omeg> Afterall, nobody's ever said that Tango is done yet. <klepas> true <klepas> suppose we're just reluctant to change <omeg> I don't think Illustrator can open this, klepas. :( <klepas> the SVGs? <omeg> It can open them, but it doesn't support some SVG things. <andreasn> omeg: well, if you want to fix it in all icons in all sizes, feel free to send it to the tango-artists list <omeg> Such as transparency in gradients. <omeg> I think I'll do that when I have some more spare time. It seems interesting enough to try. <andreasn> omeg: what do you feel is better in this icon than the one currently in tango? <omeg> I need to stop spending so much time on pixel art: http://www.whahay.net/pubaccess/__atree.gif <klepas> omeg: at work on a windows box, eh? :) <klepas> lol <omeg> andreasn: I don't think my icon is better than the one in Tango yet. Tango's icon is actually pretty good, but the background's dark grey doesn't appeal to me, nor does the frontside part of the folder. It's down too low in both the closed and open states, I'd say. <omeg> Actually, I'm at home right now. I dual boot Windows and Ubuntu (but do a lot of work on Mac OS 9.2.2), and at work I use Mac OS X 10.4. I don't use Ubuntu for art stuff since I've always used Adobe products, and I don't like the open source alternatives enough to switch to them. <omeg> I'm not an experienced icon maker, though. I might not ever be pleased with my folder icon alternative, so I wouldn't expect too much of me just yet. :P <andreasn> omeg: well, it's worth a try <omeg> By the way, do you guys know of a good place where I can download open source Mac OS 9.2.2 software? Seems that the OS9 scene is completely and wholly dead :) <omeg> The latest browser to run on it is an outdated Mozilla. <omeg> Well, except iCab, which is actively making OS9 ports, but nobody cares about iCab. <andreasn> omeg: haven't heard of any free software for os9, most stuff seems to be shareware <omeg> Yeah, that's correct. I wonder why. <andreasn> old platform? <andreasn> omeg: anyway, about the folders...right now we focus on getting apps tangofied and the base-set to be complete <omeg> I guess that when OS9 was still being used actively, open source development hadn't taken off that largely yet. I don't really know when it did, to be honest. <andreasn> and that is why the thread on the tango-artists-list about colors on folders never got anywhere, hope it don't give the impression that we don't listen to peoples feedback <omeg> Ah, you're a Tango dev? I should say that Tango's stuff is pretty amazing. :) I only have small problems with some of the icons, but nothing serious. It seriously is great work. <omeg> I guess that Ubuntu will also use Tango in the future. I hope that it will, anyway. <andreasn> yeah, I've been involved with the project since about the launch of it <andreasn> yeah, or a theme following the tango-guidelines <andreasn> as I don't want to see a mishmash of styles on my desktop <andreasn> and it creates a feeling of unprofessionalism <omeg> Yeah, that's one of the worst things that can happen. <omeg> What do you think about the Vista icons? <klepas> i can't wait until a prime distro uses tango as default <klepas> omeg: their visual metaphors aren't well thought over <omeg> I personally am still hoping that Vista's icon set is just some beta thing. <andreasn> novell linux desktop 10 will probably <omeg> Because I find them appaling. <omeg> *appalling <andreasn> and some people in the fedora project wants to use tango for fedora core 6 <omeg> Especially the new Internet Explorer icon. It's just totally wrongfully designed. <klepas> would be nice to see distros stop wasting effort to produce a branding icon set <omeg> In fact, their entire glass interface is nonsense. <omeg> But I guess that's just Windows. <omeg> It's not like they haven't been messing up their interface more and more ever since Windows 95's release. <andreasn> the thing about the vista interface is that there are probably going to be a buch of winxp-icons in there left <andreasn> and probably some win9x-icons aswell <andreasn> and it will take a while before isv's are starting to migrate to the vista-style <andreasn> klepas: do you have all my tangofied app icons? <andreasn> haven't sent too many of them upstream yet :( <andreasn> foresight linux ships with tango by default aswell, btw <klepas> andreasn: none of them <andreasn> I think I have a tar.gz around here somewhere <klepas> just making branding sets the way they are traditionally done is senseless <klepas> that would be awesome <klepas> :) <andreasn> klepas: http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/ubuntu-tango-set/ <andreasn> just tell me if something is missing <andreasn> I have already sent the inkscape icon to their mailing-list, but I'm not sure if it's in or not <andreasn> but pitivi use the new tango-icon in cvs <klepas> i'll have a look at in a sec <klepas> they're awesome <omeg> Those icons are hot. <klepas> i'll consider adding to that when time permits <klepas> so that we keep some sort of version number for it <klepas> can we call it version 0.1 * klepas edits the tarball as tango-apps-0.1.tar.gz <andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/andreasportfolio/icons.html <andreasn> check if any of them are missing that is in this page <klepas> the kontact icon <klepas> and the xchat-gnome icon <andreasn> no, I mean the other way around <andreasn> I can't use the xchat-gnome icon in my portfolio, lapo did that one <klepas> ah, okies <klepas> :P <klepas> the puzzle icon <klepas> that red dot one <klepas> and the Aaa one <klepas> oh, and the mailbox one <andreasn> ok, the puzzle icon is in ff, the mailbox in tb, the A in tango-art-libre <andreasn> and the filter is supposed to go into tango-art-libre aswell <klepas> so it's all good? <andreasn> probably <klepas> anyone know where i would find the gnome-terminal colour settings <klepas> as in the file for it <andi> well, i would search it in ~/.gnome2 but so far i was not successful finding it ;) <klepas> yea, looked there also <klepas> :( <andi> ~/.gconf/apps/gnome-terminal/profiles <andi> maybe you dont need to directly
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