#ubuntu-nz 2011-03-01 <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> security.ubuntu.com seems to be getting nicely hammered at the moment <ajmitch> because openjdk is so large? <ibeardslee> and new kernel <ajmitch> wonderful <ibeardslee> my lucid server at home (telstra clear) has been downloading updates since about 8am <ibeardslee> yay .. and my workstation just started applying updates <mwhudson> sigh * ajmitch has a whole lot of other updates to apply, but they're from nz.a.u.c <ibeardslee> yeah a good bunch came from there as well .. but from telstraclear still slow as hell * ibeardslee really needs to remove the ubuntu-server package from his server .. the server kernel doesn't like the CPU <ibeardslee> will wait 'til I'm at home for that! #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-02 <Fwb2700> Hello <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <snail> morning <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-03 <karora> morning :-) <ajmitch> almost :) <ojwb> hmm, mythtv seems to have deleted all its recording rules <hads> Not seen that before <ojwb> i guess i may have clicked the wrong button, but it seems surprising if there's a simple "delete all the rules" without confirmation * ojwb decides to poke the logs <ojwb> oh hang on <ojwb> the rules are there, but aren't showing any upcoming recordings <ojwb> and restoring the previous database backup didn't help there <ojwb> hmm, i don't see the rules in mythfrontend, but I do in mythweb <ojwb> aha, new kernel version, so the hand built module for the DVB-T stick needs rebuilding <ojwb> yes, that seems to have fixed it <snail> morning <ibeardslee> morning <hads> Morning <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> good morning <ojwb> morning <hads> Morning <ojwb> hads: the mythtv issue turned out to be a newer kernel which meant the hand built module for the dvb-t stick wasn't working <ojwb> the db was actually fine <hads> Ah <hads> Annoying that #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-04 <Fwb2700> Hello #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-05 <Fwb2700> Hello <ikonia> hi, how's NZ looking at the moment, EU news is reporting a good turn around <Hoggs> Eh, it's probably sugar coating a sad story <ikonia> still that bad <Hoggs> The whole situation is being managed amazingly well <Hoggs> there's tons of international support which is helping a lot <Fwb2700> But it's still bad #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-06 <ojwb> morning <ajmitch_> morning <ibeardslee> oh yeah morning <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> cold one too <snail> morning <snail> ikonia: if you want to help, see #eqnz <chilts> morning <hads> Morning <hads> Bugger. Seems my chromium profile is bung. <hads> Submitting a form causes it to use 100% CPU and lockup the interface for 20 seconds. <hads> Clearing cache and history doesn't seem to fix it. Moving the profile out of the way does. <ajmitch_> that's not good <ajmitch_> you'd usually think that clearing the private data should kill it <hads> Aha, missed clearing saved form data. <hads> That fixed it <hads> I guess it was doing something weird with sqlite <hads> Just copying back the profile and will see if clearning only the form data fixes it. <hads> Yeah, clearing just the saved form data fixes it. <snail> hads: my money is on badly escaped '%' characters causing sqlite to do the wrong kinds of matches <hads> Something like that sounds plausable #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-07 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch_> morning <ajmitch_> so, 'Oneiric Ocelot', opinions on the name? :) <hads> A little bit tricky <ibeardslee> oneiÂ·ric - Adjective: Of or relating to dreams or dreaming. <snail> ajmitch_: sounds like a good excuse to improve IPA and text-to-speech support: needed so we know how to pronounce the release names <chilts_> morning * chilts_ is not a fan of that name <chilts_> but still, who am I to comment :) <ojwb> morning <snail> chilts: personally i think that all non-LTS releases should be unpronounceable. would be a good way of differentiating them <ojwb> you see, this is where debian clearly wins, as none of the characters in toy story have unpronounceable names <ojwb> perhaps it's a deliberate ploy to get people to use the version numbers? #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-08 <ojwb> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12668190 has a coloured map of the altitude change from the quake <thumper> oneiric? <thumper> really? <thumper> what was he smoking <thumper> I wanted "orsum octopus" <ajmitch_> thumper: what's great is having to spell oneiric correctly in every changelog for package uploads :) * thumper thinks "one iric" <thumper> close to "one eric" <ajmitch_> it was bad enough seeing people talk about 'drapper' all the time <ojwb> ajmitch_: I'm not sure I ever type the distro name myself in the changelog... <ajmitch_> ojwb: it's much better for debian of course <ajmitch_> dch probably does the right thing, but enough people don't use that <snail> ojwb: I was going to say that debian solves the release naming problem by not having releases, but debian has been getting much better <ojwb> well, I create packages for PPAs at least <ojwb> and yes, dch can be made smart about it <ajmitch_> even with debian, packages are generally uploaded to unstable <ojwb> snail: despite what people seem to think, the longest gap between debian releases was less than 3 years <ojwb> it's basically settled down to around 2 recently, which is the same as the LTS schedule <snail> ojwb: yes, there's a nice graph on the wikipedia page. <snail> around here, the six monthly release cycle goes down well because people understand fixed schedules <ojwb> it's nice for some uses, and painful for others <snail> ojwb: indeed <ibeardslee> morning <karora> evening :-) <ajmitch_> morning <ibeardslee> where are you atm? <karora> Tonight I'm in Koblenz. <karora> Tomorrow night Frankfurt, before I fly home. * karora managed to get a free booth for douglassanchez@example.org. <ibeardslee> nice <ibeardslee> how is the android app coming along? <Atamira> mornin <karora> ibeardslee: It's good. I put it in the market just before I left, and I have done a few updates since then. <karora> At CeBIT I was installing it manually on the phone of anyone who asked. * ajmitch_ should probably get a decent phone sometime soon * ibeardslee has an android now <ibeardslee> still trying to migrate the iphone 'config' and data to it * ajmitch_ has an antique that barely works <ajmitch_> not sure which android phone would be best * ibeardslee got a IDEOS off trademe as a 1/2 step towards the Samsung Galaxy S II <ibeardslee> will need to sell the iphone and mac mini <ibeardslee> mutter mutter tells you about the $0.30 GST when you go pay for it ;) <karora> ajmitch_: Essentially it comes down to budget. If you're cheap, get the Huawei Ideos. If you have a little more money get the smaller Samsung. If price is no object get the Galaxy S, or the new Galaxy Pro (with a keyboard). <karora> I have a Nexus One and it still rocks. I've been playing with a few keyboard phones and I think I'm now happier without one, but the Nexus S and the HTC Desire Z seem to do it for a lot of people as well. * karora got the Ideos for his son. <karora> Though $SON doesn't get much use out of it 'cause Dad's always borrowing it for testing :-) * ajmitch_ might look around & see if he can find one <karora> I got it for $279 at Christmas, with a $150 credit on 2 degrees. <ibeardslee> ajmitch_: I got mine for <>$160 off trademe .. no sim <karora> Price equivalence, huh :-) <karora> It's a little underpowered, and the screen is a little small, but by and large it works well. <ajmitch_> yeah, anything would work better than what I currently have :) <karora> And it does have a capacitive touch - much nicer to use than the crappy vodafone cheap-ass one. <ibeardslee> I do have 'fun' with the onscreen keyboard <karora> I've got used to it on the Nexus One, but the Ideos is just that smidgin slower that makes it harder to use. <ibeardslee> karora: would be nice to have the new server setup and take you back to the settings already entered if the setup fails <ajmitch_> $299 for the ideos from 2degreesmobile.co.nz <ibeardslee> http://www.trademe.co.nz/browse/searchresults.aspx?sort_order=&searchType=0344-9113-&searchString=ideos+u8150&x=0&y=0&searchregion=100&type=Search&redirectFromAll=False&generalSearch_keypresses=5&generalSearch_suggested=11&%3FsupprR=1&z=12 <ibeardslee> a bit more variety of price if you already have an vodafone or 2 degress sim <ajmitch_> yeah <ajmitch_> just a prepaid vodafone SIM <karora> ibeardslee: In aCal? Yeah, the configuration stuff does have to change. <ibeardslee> karora: yeah .. 4th time entering the data to get a connection is starting to wear a bit thin ;) <ibeardslee> "Server did not provide a principal path" ? <karora> ibeardslee: You can long-press on a working one to save an XML file onto your SDCard. <karora> It will look in the /sdcard/acal folder for such saved configs. <karora> ... which is also where it saves them :-) <ibeardslee> oh that'll be handy! <ibeardslee> hmm maybe I need a saved on first .. that folder doesn't exist <ibeardslee> s/on/one/ <ibeardslee> karora: do you have sample XML file somewhere? <karora> Well, just do all of the settings and save one. <karora> It should create the folder the first time you save one. <ibeardslee> it doen't seem to save one unless it finds a valid connection <hads> I have a Nexus One too, works well. Running 2.3 since a few days back. <ajmitch> hads: still getting in some of that pc engines stock this week? <hads> ajmitch: It has shipped out from Switzerland on Monday, it might not make it through customs until next week though - hard to say. <ajmitch> ok <hads> I'll ping you when it's clearing. <ajmitch> I should probably order the dsl modem today anyway <ojwb> morning <hads> Morning <ojwb> hmm, both the houses next to us are going on the market * ojwb wonders what he did <ajmitch> ojwb: it was probably the late-night parties <ojwb> but i was very tolerant of those #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-09 <mwhudson> ojwb: you can start to acquire the downtown lifestyle block you've always wanted? <ojwb> mwhudson: jenny pointed out that we should have bought the house next door but one last year <ojwb> then we could buy these two, and build a hotel <mwhudson> if you want to own a hotel <ojwb> well, they make more rent <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> good morning <ibeardslee> I should read the Ubuntu-NZ mailing list more often <ajmitch> there were actually some messages sent to it recently <ajmitch> more relevant to wellington people though <ibeardslee> yeah busy replying to the guy wanting to get a Wellington Ubuntu user group going <ibeardslee> suggesting that there may be more value to the greater community to focus on WellyLug <ibeardslee> being distro independent <ajmitch> and probably most of the wellylug people have some familiarity with ubuntu anyway? <ibeardslee> yeap <ajmitch> I know a few of the dunlug people do <ajmitch> hads: quick service, modem just arrived :) <hads> ajmitch: Excellent <hads> I think I might unsubscribe from NZlUG now that's it's turned into NZEarthquakeAndPoliticsEtcChat. * ajmitch hasn't been subscribed there for a couple of years now #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-10 <Atamira> nd <Atamira> darn <Rosewolf> Hello <Atamira> mornin <chilts> morning :) <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <thumper> morning * thumper is pleased it is Friday <ajmitch> would be nice if it weren't raining outside though <ojwb> morning <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> sneaking in, been here all along though :) <mwhudson> who broke metservice.com #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-11 <karora> evening all <ojwb> hi karora <ajmitch> yay, friday afternoon <ojwb> japan seems be be trying to upstage us with a magnitude 8.8 quake <ojwb> or maybe 7.9 <Atamira> i think they win that one <Atamira> they even lost more people <ojwb> oh dear <ojwb> a friend who's in kyoto currently said it was strong there and that's a long way from the quake <Hoggs> 7.2 <Hoggs> waitno <Hoggs> 8.9! <ojwb> 7.2 was just one of the aftershocks <ojwb> it's something like the 5th largest recorded quake <lifeless> 8.8 <lifeless> 1000 times stronger than the 6.3 that damaged chch badly <G> what is happening to the pacific? <G> in the last ~10 years: boxing day tsunami, Chile Quake, Chch earthquake (Sept), Queensland Floods, Chch Earthquake (Feb), Japan Quake/Tsunami, and a lot of other stuff I haven't thought about <G> Hoggs: btw, it seems like it could be anything between 7.9 & 8.9, CNN had a shot up with 3 different figures <Hoggs> Container ship just chilling in the city <G> hmmm Civil Defence site brought down as a result <lifeless> also richter vs moment scale <lifeless> the 7.9 was moment scale I believe, so it could be both M7.9 and R8.9 <ojwb> isn't 8.8 more like 300 times stronger than 6.3? <ojwb> still insane of course... <lifeless> ojwb: 1000 times <ojwb> isn't it a log 10 scale? <lifeless> ojwb: (10^2.5)^3/2 <lifeless> ojwb: richter is log 10 but it measures needle movement on a seismograph not energy <ojwb> oh, in energy <G> lifeless: ahhh right yeah, forgot abotu M vs R #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-12 <Pumba> hello! sorry to disturb #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-13 * ojwb wonders how to get mythtv to realise tvnz6 has been replaced by u <ojwb> i seem to get u schedules but listed under tvnz6 <Hoggs> ojwb: Have you tried turning it off and on again? <ojwb> Hoggs: in fact I have <ojwb> also tried running --configure on the grabber <hads> ojwb: Use mythweb to edit the channel xmltvid to u.freeviewnz.tv and change the name. <hads> And edit your ~/.mythtv/$SOURCE.xmltv to replace the tvnz6 line with u <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-14 <ojwb> hads: ah, I just regenerated the list in ~/.xmltv <ojwb> looks better now, except for no icon, but I guess there just isn't one available yet <ojwb> thanks <fmarier> ojwb what happened to the php5-xapian package in Debian/Ubuntu? <fmarier> are the php bindings deprecated or unmaintained? <ojwb> fmarier: no, php licence + GPL = boom <ojwb> or at least that seems to be the prevailing opinion - it's not completely clear to me if PHP and GPL are incompatible <ojwb> the PHP licence has a stupid requirement that you can't use a name for your derived version which includes PHP * ajmitch digs up the bug for that & winces <fmarier> ah, yeah, the php license sucks <ojwb> which people have taken to mean you couldn't call it graphplotter, for example <ajmitch> that's idiotic <ojwb> which is a fairly strong naming restriction <mwhudson> this is why hiphop was such a clever name for facebook's thing :) <ojwb> yes <ojwb> they really want to stop people like phpnuke I think <fmarier> mwhudson: that's awesome <ojwb> but that is derived code, so doesn't help <ojwb> is *NOT* <fmarier> phpmyadmin is another one they should stop IMO <ojwb> yeah, though it's not like PHP has a terribly good name to be besmirching <mwhudson> any love for phpBB? <ibeardslee> only for abuse <ajmitch> burn it with fire? <ojwb> really they want a trademark to actually address such issues <ibeardslee> Masochism & phpBB <ojwb> but from what I've seen of past licence discussions with PHP upstream, they're unlikely to see sense <ajmitch> as long as they didn't restrict patching php & being able to use the name <ojwb> and xapian has code we can't get relicensed, so an exception for PHP isn't possible there <fmarier> so it wasn't written from scratch by you guys? <ojwb> ajmitch: strictly speaking, we probably can't: <ojwb> 4. Products derived from this software may not be called "PHP", nor <ojwb> may "PHP" appear in their name, without prior written permission <ojwb> from douglassanchez@example.org. You may indicate that your software works in <ojwb> conjunction with PHP by saying "Foo for PHP" instead of calling <ojwb> it "PHP Foo" or "phpfoo" <ojwb> fmarier: well, yes and no <ajmitch> ojwb: excellent, an excuse to drop php from debian :) <ojwb> it was originally "open muscat" and being written mostly by people currently involved but as employees <ojwb> it's not even clear who owns the brighstation copyright now <ojwb> I know who claims to, but another company seem to assume they do too <ojwb> orange (the mobile phone people) own some too, and negotiation with them proved rather fruitless <ojwb> they seemed obsessed with me retrospectively signing an employment contract I refused to sign at the time <fmarier> ajmitch: i'm sure the security team would approve given all of the crap that depends on php that would then need to be removed :) <ajmitch> fmarier: unfortunately a few people tend to use those buggy apps <ojwb> I guess you could argue that the debian package is "php5" which doesn't contain "PHP" <ojwb> though their "phpfoo" example suggests they intend the case to matter <ajmitch> it'd depend on how they interpreted derived work <mwhudson> um <mwhudson> doesn't "PHP" appear in "Foo for PHP" ? <ajmitch> & how a court would :) <ojwb> to not matter <ojwb> mwhudson: 'or "phpfoo"' <ojwb> mwhudson: oh, ISWYM <ojwb> yes, that's somewhat murky <ojwb> I think again it's trademark-ish * mwhudson .oO(how many idiotic licensing discussions can dance on the head of a pin) <ojwb> you can use a trademark to identify something AIUI <ajmitch> so in essence their licensing is about as bad as the code * mwhudson tries to remember if the PSF owns the trade mark on "Python" * ojwb discovered a fun one last week <mwhudson> i _think_ it does <ojwb> the PHP C API call to set a constant uses a length one different to the call to read a constant... <ajmitch> mwhudson: google says yes <mwhudson> 79 unread in psf-members <mwhudson> life isn't that boring yet :) <ojwb> fmarier: anyway, the long term plan is that we'll eventually have replaced all the code we can't relincense in xapian <ojwb> GPL doesn't make huge amount of sense given it's used extensively as a backend for web services - it's like there's a liberal licence for those people, but a copyleft one for others <ojwb> and lucene uses the apache license, so less restrictive is more sensible I think <fmarier> solr really has ugly version numbers: 156.14.161.142156.14.161.142.08.44 <ojwb> wow <ojwb> but what if they want to make more than one release per second? <fmarier> ojwb use an epoch? <fmarier> 1:156.14.161.142156.14.161.142.08.44 <fmarier> looks even better <ojwb> hmm <ojwb> fmarier: were you wanting to use xapian in php? <ojwb> if so, debian/rules still has support for building it <fmarier> yeah i was looking into it, but it's for an open source project, so we do need to have a properly licensed library... <ojwb> just uncomment: # PHP_VERSIONS := 5 <ojwb> an alternative is to use omega's XML output <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> mornin * ajmitch is awfully tempted to get a laptop with an SSD <ojwb> morning <ibeardslee> ajmitch: just do it <ajmitch> ibeardslee: costs $ <ibeardslee> true that <chilts> morning <chilts> and my next lappy will have an SSD <chilts> my desktop at home has a 40GB SSD and it boots in about 4 seconds :) <ajmitch> ibeardslee: acquiring $ depends on how much employers are willing to fork over :) <chilts> the initial time for the computer to start is longer than Ubuntu getting to the sign in page <ibeardslee> I think my netbook is bit slow on the start, even with the SSD * ojwb prefers a computer which doesn't need restarting often <ojwb> now time to resume from hibernate... <ajmitch> as do I, but SSD helps for everyday use, not just restarting * snail will refrain from whinging about the enterprise windows7 upgrade he is participating in <ajmitch> but it's enterprise, so it must be good... * ibeardslee tries hard to refrain from laughing <snail> the one good thing about windows upgrades (compared to linux upgrades) is that they nuked the disk and started from scratch so you had identical machines with identical faults. not any more * ibeardslee installs likewise-open * ajmitch has heard that likewise-open works pretty well <ojwb> ibeardslee: it doesn't work with newer ubuntu versions <ajmitch> never really had a chance to try it though <ajmitch> ojwb: what's broken with it? <ojwb> just doesn't work <ojwb> at least with the last LTS <ojwb> likewise know about it <ojwb> possibly fixed now, this was a few months ago <ojwb> but they didn't seem to be in any hurry <ojwb> a client was trying to use it <ajmitch> I see that version 6 is in natty, so it may have a chance of working <ojwb> it's not compatible with a new enough samba version <ajmitch> through being broken on an LTS is pretty dire <ajmitch> s/through/though/ <ojwb> indeed - we just avoided the dependency in the end <ibeardslee> yeah it is looking like LTS ain't going to make the PoC <ibeardslee> the exchange mapi is too old <ibeardslee> might end up focusing on maverick <ajmitch> by exchange mapi, you mean the evolution thing? <ibeardslee> yeah <ajmitch> & evolution is one of those packages that's a pig to backport because of how many libraries it drags around <ibeardslee> yes, so I'm discovering <ajmitch> I was reading the bug about it earlier <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lucid-backports/+bug/653619/comments/34 <ibeardslee> the LTS is an ideal target for a proof of concept you'd expect it to be solid <ibeardslee> the various PPA I've seen have a bunch of incomplete, stopped etc <ojwb> there's always squeeze... <ibeardslee> or redhat <ajmitch> ojwb: sadly even squeeze falls down in a few areas where things need to be up to date <ojwb> ajmitch: any non-rolling release will have that issue <ajmitch> yeah, I'm still waiting for certain packages to be updated in sid or experimental :) <ojwb> but squeeze is at least LTS-like <ojwb> or the NEW queue... <ajmitch> it took a bit less than 2 months for a package of mine to get through NEW recently :) * ajmitch should upgrade the servers for work to squeeze sometime in the next few months <ojwb> ajmitch: is that the experimental one? <ojwb> was just ahead of mine, but mine is still languishing <ojwb> the NEW queue manages to be both apparently very open and almost completely opaque, which is a good trick <ajmitch> yeah, ubuntu-sso-client <ajmitch> heh <ojwb> god, I killed that on the ubuntu laptop <ojwb> it was using a huge amount of memory <ajmitch> not surprising, but it's needed for some other packages <ojwb> and I doubt I've ever used it or every will <ajmitch> I wish I knew why desktopcouch needs to depend on it... :) <ajmitch> I doubt I'd have time to help out on the FTP team & review package licenses <ojwb> it's ok, it seems ok to pick just the ones you like #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-15 <ojwb> hmm, i just managed to send a heart emoticon to a client <ojwb> "<3 letters>" <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> I didn't think it was usually looked on favourably when you send love letters to clients <ojwb> i didn't even notice the "love letters" <ojwb> better than hate mail anyway <ibeardslee> so I had evolution connecting nicely to exchange <ibeardslee> then I had the machine auth with AD with likewise open <ibeardslee> but now evolution segfaults <ajmitch> spectacular <ibeardslee> found some stuff about samba getting in the way .. may be related <ajmitch> sometimes you wonder if anyone seriously uses this stuff in production :) <ibeardslee> yeah I know <ajmitch> morning <karora> morning <chilts> morning <snail> is http://victoria.lconz.ac.nz/vwebv/search?searchArg=the&sk=vuw&searchCode=GKEY^*&searchType=0 down for other people? <ajmitch> snail: no response yet <snail> ajmitch: thanks <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> morning <snail> sometimes i love librarians: i send out a quick summary of an error that we've fixed, mentioning tomcat. someone sends me back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykRZbOb1c5c #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-16 <thumper> afternoon <chilts> snail: do you do work for one or more libraries? <chilts> ah, I'm not sure I figured your nick out ... are you the Stuart I know? <chilts> (that would be embarrassing) :) <snail> chilts: I work up at the VUW library <snail> and I believe that I'm the Stuart you know <ajmitch> heh <snail> technically we're a library system, since we have multiple libraries * chilts is now thinking Star Wars in reverse <chilts> "They're not the people you're looking for" :) <ibeardslee> who am I looking for? <ibeardslee> what am I looking for? <ibeardslee> who am i? <ibeardslee> who is using my keyboard? <ibeardslee> who has been drinking my coffee? <chilts> it's not your keyboard, if you're an impostor, it's ibeardslee's! <ibeardslee> it alright sorted, my name is on the keyboard .. Microsoft <ojwb> hi mike <mwhudson> ibeardslee: i have some products from "that keyboard and mouse company" too <chilts> yeah, Mike Row wasn't it <mwhudson> i suppose you can add games console to that list too <chilts> in that case, my name is Dell - which is also a Mike <ojwb> Rowe <ojwb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._MikeRoweSoft <mwhudson> huh <mwhudson> hadn't heard of that :) <ojwb> he should have found a girl with the surname Soft to marry... <snail> that's what we need, domain names in IPA ... <ojwb> mmm ... IPA <mwhudson> preferably tuatara ipa <mwhudson> argh, where can i buy cheap clip frames in this country? <mwhudson> this sort of thing: http://www.fastframes.co.uk/acatalog/Individual_Plastic_Glass_Clipframes.html <ojwb> i've not tried to buy them here, but maybe at the warehouse? <mwhudson> nope, tried that last night <mwhudson> i've found a few online but the A2 ones (which i want) are like $70 <mwhudson> which seems at least 2x too much <mwhudson> (and they're not really the same, they have frames) <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> morning <hads_> Morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-17 <ojwb> is anyone interested in and able to do some tweaking work with a web frontend? <ojwb> it's mostly in jquery from what I've seen <ojwb> probably a day or two initially, though potentially more later <ojwb> feel free to PM me <Robosexual> SUp niggaz <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> mornnig <snail> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> mornin * chilts wonders if Atamira's g key doesn't work :) <chilts> I guess you use yahoo instead of google or bing :) <Atamira> no, im just lazy <chilts> (not that you'd use the latter anyway) <chilts> heh <Atamira> its not as if the g is that important to the one we pronounce it <Atamira> and i always use google <Atamira> :D <chilts> I should try that duck duck go one sometime <chilts> well, I've used it before, but it's not yet in my psyche to always use it <ibeardslee> remeber the good old days when altavista was THE search engine to use? <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> ibeardslee: yeah <snail> ibeardslee: i remember gopher <mwhudson> i remember google.stanford.edu <chilts> heh, I never saw it when it was there <chilts> I do remember AltaVista though :) <ajmitch> ibeardslee: yes, my hotmail.com address dates back to before MS bought them, I swear :) <ibeardslee> heh <mwhudson> i had one of those too <mwhudson> i think i was even douglassanchez@example.org <mwhudson> it drowned in spam though * chilts used to have andychilton at hotmail and yahoo, but they both drowned in spam <ojwb> morning <Atamira> heh, whos hotmail account didnt drown in spam tho? <Atamira> i had two at that time <ojwb> never had one #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-18 <Atamira> anyone used nagios? <ibeardslee> we do <ibeardslee> although I'm not very clued on it <ibeardslee> s/very // <Atamira> is it helpful at all? <mwhudson> if you have to monitor stuff, i believe so <ibeardslee> it is for monitoring stuff <ibeardslee> it's what we use at catalyst of alerting via email, txt and pager #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-19 <ojwb> hmm, so i turn my old laptop on and discover it's hibernated not shut down <ojwb> which is interesting as hibernating didn't work last time I tried <ojwb> and I log in to find the shutdown confirmation dialog up <ojwb> I thought it counted down 60 seconds now... <chilts> who knows <chilts> I've never tried hibernation ... I just figure it won't work from within XMonad (I also have no idea how to tell it to do it either) :) <ojwb> chilts: well, it essentially saves the state of the whole machine, so it should work from anywhere <ojwb> at least if you can make it happen - I think there's a command line interface to it <chilts> yeah, I was thinking there must be somewhere <chilts> /etc/acpi/sleep.sh and /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh I believe <chilts> I'll try it later <chilts> so suspend uses a little power to keep things running, hibernate uses no power <chilts> wake up suspend by pressing a key or clicking the mouse, wake up hibernate by pressing the power button <ojwb> yes, suspend comes back in almost no time <chilts> that's as far as I can figure it out (for my own purposes) :) <chilts> cool <ojwb> hibernate can be a bit sluggish as stuff comes back from swap <chilts> looks like it just slept and once reconnected to my wireless, all looks ok :) <ojwb> yeah, you can expect it to work these days <ojwb> it used to be a bit pot luck <chilts> :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-20 <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> snail .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound <snail> morning all <ibeardslee> it travels about 4.3 times faster in water (1,484 m/s) <ibeardslee> today's question answered .. does sound travel faster in denser air? <ibeardslee> yes <snail> :) <ibeardslee> https://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/03/19/134654970/super-moon-to-rise-saturday-night <ibeardslee> and the closer moon <snail> ibeardslee: the SoS is "nearly independent of pressure or density for a given gas" so those donuts are the spacecraft slowing as they approach <ibeardslee> and snail the other bus conversation .. http://www.nzcs.org.nz/newsletter/article/94#open_source <ibeardslee> well done timClicks <timClicks> thanks ;) <timClicks> I think it's an important message <snail> timClicks: are you still wellington based? <timClicks> yes <snail> sometime i'd like to invite you up here to give a talk about it, but need to work out some of the details here <snail> not that i'm softening the locals up to be more receptive to open source, or anything <timClicks> hah <timClicks> more than happy to present <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> good morning <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-21 <ibeardslee> yay <timClicks> ibeardslee, ? <ibeardslee> so the madness I have been dealing to over the last week or so has been because of upper case MS domains and DNS names of exchange servers rather than the IP addresses <ibeardslee> timClicks: been trying to get ubuntu to connect to an Exchange 2010 server and authenticate the workstation login against an Active directory server <ojwb> so filenames aren't case sensitive but domain names are? <ojwb> fun fun fun <timClicks> sounds delightful <ibeardslee> ojwb: not sure where the problem was .. whether it was the ubuntu end or the exchange end failing <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> morena <ibeardslee> morning <mwhudson> morning <timClicks> lalalololo http://trololololololololololo.com/ * ibeardslee makes a note to mention timClicks' name to 'someone he knows' who likes catching up with people in dark alleys with a baseball bat <timClicks> lol <timClicks> that may be the case, but even when I'm gone you'll never forget that website <ajmitch> this is why I shall not visit that site <timClicks> ajmitch, i'll let the intrigue eat away at you <timClicks> fyi GNU Free Call announced <timClicks> http://planet.gnu.org/gnutelephony/?p=14 (Skype replacement in free software) <chilts> looks good <chilts> let's see how long it takes to go mainstream (if ever) <ibeardslee> weren't there a bunch of others trying to do the same thing? <chilts> dunno <ibeardslee> acutally maybe they were just clients rather than the 'full stack' <ajmitch> trying to get users in a market like that would be challenging <ibeardslee> it would have to interact with skype <ibeardslee> the 'defacto' <ajmitch> otherwise you'd end up being able to call only a few people who were as dedicated as you were :) <ajmitch> though it at least looks like it's a SIP client <chilts> I'd probably get my brother in the UK to use it (assuming there is a windoze version) <ajmitch> being able to actually use skype without too many hassles is part of what's made it popular <snail> archives.govt.nz and archive.org appear to have both screwed their DNS at the same time. that can't be a coincidence... <ojwb> morning <ojwb> timClicks: I misread that as "GNU FreeCell announced" #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-22 <CJPC> Hi all! :) <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <snail> morning. traffic bad in wellington today <chilts> morning <chilts> yeah, it gets worse when the weather turns bad <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-23 * ojwb twigs why mythtv is keen to record the TV3 and TV3+1 showings of things - it uses the description to detect duplicates and they append " (Repeat)" to the TV3+1 description <chilts> interesting <chilts> one day I'll have to get MythTV set up <hads> ojwb: That "(Repeat)" might just be showing up on your display but not actually be in the description. <ojwb> it's in the description if I look in the web, but perhaps <ojwb> i should check the xml data <hads> Actually, it should be (Rerun) <hads> And it's not in the xml from nzepg.org <ojwb> hads: so it isn't <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning <chilts> morning <chilts> amazing guy -> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78514#c19 <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-24 <mwhudson> fmarier: are you around? <fmarier> fmarier: yup <chilts> for those on the NZPUG mailing list ... I really want to ask "So, tupple or tewple - I thought with Python there was only one way to do it?" * chilts wants to stir <chilts> but I'll resist <mwhudson> please leave that thread to die :) <chilts> I know, that's why I'm leaving it <chilts> still, it's funny <ojwb> mwhudson: it will never die <ojwb> the nzpug mailing list actually puts me off using python <chilts> yeah, not sure why I subscribe either ... it seems more active than wgtn.pm but not necessarily more informative <ojwb> oh, is there a wellington list? <ojwb> i really only subscribe for the meeting reminders <chilts> ojwb: am just talking about this one -> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/wellington-pm <ojwb> oh, pm not py <ojwb> yes, the perl list has much higher signal/noise <chilts> yeah, sorry, pm * ajmitch reads the discussion from the last half-hour & groans <fmarier> ojwb: similarly, the nzoss openchat list often puts me off doing open source :) <ojwb> fmarier: perhaps I won't join that one <ojwb> being put off python is less of an issue <ajmitch> ojwb: I take it you're not on debian-devel either? :) <ojwb> ajmitch: indeed <ojwb> even dipping in to the archives saps my enthusiasm <ojwb> though i've heard it's less bad these days <ajmitch> less long-winded flamewars <ojwb> go debian! <ibeardslee> evening <ojwb> evening <ibeardslee> feeling a bit more alive I am <ibeardslee> and now natty seems to be behaving a bit betterer as well <ibeardslee> but now catching up with some of the conversations .. the FOSS type mailing lists I think can be a big turn off as people get carried away <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning\ <snail> moring everyone <ojwb> morning <snail> ibeardslee: you're right about people getting carried away and turning people off <karora> ibeardslee: Yeah. It's a problem that seems to affect the more 'general' ones. <fmarier> http://identi.ca/notice/68078634 <--- /me is proud of ubuntu <karora> Specific purpose ones are usually more or less OK though. <ojwb> fmarier: that's good news * ajmitch wasn't aware it was even up for discussion <ajmitch> though I guess it could relate to proprietary drivers especially with shipping unity as the default desktop shell <snail> is there a mailing list for new zealand web techies? <snail> I'm looking for somewhere to post a reasonably long and complex experience report about decommissioning a server that used to host a .nz website ... <karora> Blog it :-) <snail> yeah, but i just blogged http://opensourceexile.blogspot.com/2011/03/is-there-place-for-readers-collectives.html and i don't want to set a precedent. <karora> Heh. <karora> Blog it on a totally different site :-) <karora> snail: Nice blog too, BTW. Have you read "Common as Air" yet? <snail> karora: thank you. if I've read it "Common as Air", it wasn't recently enough to recall the title, does it have a URL? <karora> It's a new book by Lewis Hyde - author of "Trickster Makes the World". It's awesome. #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-25 <fmarier> ajmitch: what's the name of the launchpad team that i have to subscribe to sponsor a security upload to universe? <ajmitch> ubuntu-sponsors is the general team for sponsorship, I'm not sure about security uploads though <ajmitch> you could ask kees in #ubuntu-security, I think he's still around <ajmitch> fmarier: ubuntu-sponsors should get things uploaded fairly quickly anyway :) <karora> snail: Here's a review of "Common as Air". I only wondered earlier because it seemed from reading your blog that you would *really* enjoy this book: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/books/review/Darnton-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-27 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <karora> And what a beautiful morning it is, too :-) <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> it really is <mwhudson> wife + mother in law are on the overlander today, looks like they've got a nice day for it <ajmitch> overcast & grey down here <Atamira> morning <Atamira> lovely day here <Atamira> windy as heck..but still lovely <jhanafrog> hey LukasB <jhanafrog> i'm visiting from California :) <jhanafrog> hi everybody <LukasB> Hi! <LukasB> I am new to this channel. I am in Nelson, anybody else? <mwhudson> hi LukasB <mwhudson> i don't think anyone i know about is from nelson <LukasB> My name is Lukas, nice to meet you. Now you do :) <mwhudson> LukasB: anyone else i mean :-) * mwhudson is in wellington <LukasB> ah okay ;) <snail> LukasB: you don't happen to know anything about your local historians do you? http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-corpus-nhsj.html i run the tech side of that <LukasB> AH wow... but seems as you are from Wellington, too ;) But I am sorry, I live here since august 2010. I got ubuntu two weeks ago and have been to #ubuntu-beginners this morning and jhanafrog introduced me to Local Communities <ibeardslee> we're a fairly quiet bunch in here <ibeardslee> often the entire conversation for a day is everyone saying 'morning' <jhanafrog> sooner people get into their LoCo's the better, of course he and anyone else in here is welcome in #ubuntu-beginners anytime <jhanafrog> do you guys know about hackerspaces.org? <jhanafrog> i just learned about a hackerspace in los angeles that i am going to visit <LukasB> ibeardslee: But everybody is still coming ;) <ibeardslee> do now .. but vaguely knew about the various one about <LukasB> Okay I got to do some work in the garden now... See you later! <ibeardslee> enjoy <LukasB> Cheers! Sun is shining :) <jhanafrog> i planted some dillweed today :) <ibeardslee> I have grand plans for a bit of a garden .. but I always find a reason to do something else instead :( <ibeardslee> like a lot of my grand plans <jhanafrog> i don't have a job, and it's something that i hope will help the bottom line <ibeardslee> ahhh <ibeardslee> jhanafrog: where are you from? <jhanafrog> i currently reside in california <ibeardslee> kewl <thumper> morning <thumper> omg a conversation <ajmitch> quick, avert your eyes! <jhanafrog> too late! i'm melllltttting <jhanafrog> a little yank humor <ibeardslee> I thought Dubya was the yank contribution to humour ;) <jhanafrog> Dubya? you mean the ex-president? we broke up. <ibeardslee> heh <ibeardslee> anyway .. the morning update of test VMs done <ibeardslee> natty is getting tidier, although hard to do a proof of concept with the unity interface if it won't run in the VMs <thumper> ibeardslee: it won't? <ibeardslee> well not the KVM VM <ibeardslee> just get the wallpaper when I choose 'ubuntu' <thumper> any bugs for it? * ibeardslee puts it down to no 3D <thumper> hmm... <thumper> do you have to explicitly choose the unity-2d? <ibeardslee> which is described release notes <ibeardslee> if I choose ubuntu safe mode it get the desktop <ibeardslee> but not the bar down the left side <ibeardslee> just installing unity-2d now <ibeardslee> wtf .. it requires msql-common ?!? #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-28 <ajmitch> the 3d unity apparantly works in a modern virtualbox (4.x) <ibeardslee> was running virtualbox, but dropped it for kvm <ajmitch> why was that? <ibeardslee> easier to deal with getting machines to start up on boot, it's what we use on the servers <ajmitch> right <ajmitch> I only use it for casual desktop use <ibeardslee> "Sorry Unity 2D Launcher closed unexpectedly" <ibeardslee> I currently have 4 machines up most of the time and another 2 or 3 that do yo-yo impressions as I'm testing a linux desktop proof of concept <ibeardslee> err two machines up most of the time <ajmitch> I mostly just have windows running for awhile, virtualbox is simple enough to use, I don't really log out on the host <ibeardslee> ok <ibeardslee> I generally logout at the end of each day <ajmitch> having an ipv6 tunnel is useful for being able to access my work desktop from home as well :) <snail> is open.org.nz down for anyone else? <ajmitch> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/open.org.nz says it's dead * ajmitch can't reach it from work either * thumper wonders when to upgrade locally to natty <ibeardslee> did my home PC a couple of weekends back * ajmitch might upgrade in a month or so <ibeardslee> I don't know what it is about my PCs and upgrades .. both my home PC and work PC have had to have the window manager started 'manually' <ajmitch> thumper: when's the next scnz-dunedin meeting likely to be? <thumper> when is the next dunlug? <thumper> I'm wanting to move the day to a tuesday <thumper> and I don't want to clash <ajmitch> next dunlug meeting is this wednesday, the next tuesday meeting for it is on the 12th <ajmitch> the distiller have something on thurs 7 about mobile development <thumper> yeah, saw that <thumper> I may even go <jhanafrog> it was good talking to you guys. hope to talk again. may the source be with you <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> does anyone use the full circle notifier? <ajmitch> nope, what is it? <ibeardslee> supposed to notify when the Full Circle Magazine has been released <ibeardslee> and optionally download it <ajmitch> ah, I don't read that, probably why I don't use the notifier :) <Atamira> morena <snail> morena atamira, kei te pehea koe? <Atamira> kei te pai e hoa. kei te pai :) <Atamira> sorry, was doing the email thing <Atamira> question, why use the full circle notifier or are you actually talking about the subscription thing that notifies you when the next one comes out? <ibeardslee> the application that notifies and can download the magzine and podcasts ec <Atamira> mmm..i downloaded calibre...i think its kinda clunky..will get the magazine this week, i might learn something <hads> Morning <snail> Atamira: what are you doing with calibre, we do a lot of ebook stuff here <Atamira> i was given a bunch of books. turned out to be 6000 epub books <Atamira> needed something to read them on and someone told me about calibre <Atamira> took nearly 10 hours to load them all into the program <Atamira> actually...i know it took longer than 5 hours. after that i went to bed. it finished sometime in the morning <snail> Atamira: calibre is a conversion program mainly, I don't know of anyone who uses it much for reading except to make sure things are working. <snail> Atamira: do you have a physical device to read from or are you reading from your computer screen? <Atamira> computer screen <Atamira> ive been tossing up which reader device to use <Atamira> i think i might just go with a netbook <Atamira> i dont want to use a variety of things that will do just one thing <Atamira> ie..ipod for music...kodo/kindle for bookreading <Atamira> from what i could see, the iphone isnt a drag and drop kinda thing <ibeardslee> I think a netbook has some of the same issues that a computer screen has as a reading device <ibeardslee> that keyboard just gets in the way <Atamira> netbook is small enough to take to bed if i want, and listen to music and read ebooks on <ibeardslee> makes it awkward to hold .. unless you want to be sitting up in bed with the netbook on the lap <Atamira> shrug no different to reading an actual book in bed <Atamira> but at least i can take it to bed if i want <ibeardslee> I like to lie on my side and read <ibeardslee> that is true <Atamira> on my pc i cant <ibeardslee> I think the age of the tablet is going to come through <snail> if you want to read 6000 ebooks, your eyes want you to buy a kindle / kobo / eReader <ibeardslee> more power. With a bluetooth keyboard they are likely to start being able to replace the netbook <Atamira> what else can you do on kindle/kobo/eReader tho? <Atamira> just read a book? <snail> Atamira: most of them have audio and text-to-speech functionality <Atamira> id rather read a book <Atamira> i most often nod off if i listen to someone read to me <Atamira> they tend to drone on <Atamira> some books neway <hads> Morning <snail> Atamira: how much does 6000 pulp-of-murdered-tree books weigh? <Atamira> tonnes !! <hads> heh <Atamira> and carting them from country to country sucks ! <Atamira> hence why im opting for digital books <Atamira> i hate having to leave books behind cause they wont fit in the luggage <Atamira> but i do need something thats more portable than my pc to read them on <hads> The Kindle does look nice to read on. <hads> I don't really mind reading off a screen though, like most of you I do it all day. <snail> hads: my wife has a kindle and loves it. the reading light works really well <snail> hads: the text-to-voice is the only functionality that causes noticable battery drain <ibeardslee> I read off the screen all day, but the 'workstation' is optimised for keyboard rather than reading <hads> Yeah, I was flicking through Dad's Kindle at Christmas, seems nice. <snail> hads: often reading novel-length works you're much more static than you are programming, replying to emails, etc. and staticness can be a serious OOS issue <hads> I can imagine. I'm not much of a reader to be honest. <Atamira> agreed the kindle does look nice <Atamira> does it allow for drag and drop or must you import the books via the proprietry software on it? <hads> I think it's proprietry? <Atamira> which rules that out for me then <Atamira> i dont want to waste the books i do have already <Atamira> bedtime <Atamira> nite all <thumper> morning <chilts> morning <LukasB> good morning <snail> Atamira: i believe kindle uses .mobi, which calibre exports too very nicely <ibeardslee> yay .. found a way to chance the background of the login screen <ibeardslee> s/chance/change/ #ubuntu-nz 2011-03-29 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning <ibeardslee> Atamira: the Full Circle Magazine #47 has a Part 1 of Ebook software on Linux <thumper> morning <chilts> morning <ajmitch> odd, www.nz.kernel.org no longer resolves :) * ajmitch had that in /etc/apt/sources.list on a debian install <Aginor> it looks like it was eaten by a grue <karora> ajmitch: perhaps Catalyst's sysadmins failed to notice it becoming out of date or something, and it got removed. <karora> ibeardslee: ? <LukasB> Good morning guys <ibeardslee> ummm .. I did see an email about a kernel mirror .. but I figured it was us just being told that we'd got out of sync <ibeardslee> left it to the sysadmins to deal with <ibeardslee> should it exist, was it catalyst's realm? <ajmitch> it used to point to catalyst as the local kernel mirror (which carried other stuff) <ajmitch> I can't remember if I manually added it to sources.list in this case, or if it was picked up somehow * snail is beginning to hate specialist hardware <ibeardslee> something about rsync getting stuck <ibeardslee> it is being looked into <ajmitch> great, thanks <karora> ajmitch: Although for sources.list using debian.catalyst.net.nz would probably be a better name... <ajmitch> karora: most likely, I think this would be the only install I know of using www.nz.kernel.org <Atamira> morning all <Atamira> ibeardslee, i saw, i downloaded it already. havent had a chance to read it yet <chilts> snail: as in (for example) ebook readers rather than general purpose things, or you talking about something else? <snail> chilts: today I'm dealing with the other end of the book spectrum, digitisation. we have http://support.microtek.com/scanmaker_9800XL_specifications.html which appears to be an expensive disposable wrapper around an limited-life lamp and http://diy.atiz.com/ which is mainly a holder for your choice of DSLRs, but DSLRs aren't designed to be driven in matched pairs and so configuring them is like herding cats and the business model seems revolve around spe <snail> needless to say we hired a consultant to configure them once four years ago and relied on in-house IT (i.e. me) to do everything since. <snail> the bookdrive is also covered by a gentleman's agreement, if anyone is interested in that kinds of thing... <chilts> hmm, sounds like a lot of pain <chilts> and it wouldn't surprise me if those companies/products are out of support now anyway <chilts> :( <chilts> well, apart from the Gentleman's agreement <snail> the gentleman's agreement is indeed an excellent thing, although we're all hoping that the DIA's acquisition of the national library and archivesnz isn't going to stymie things. <snail> chilts: if you're interested in eReader hardware, the place to start is http://openinkpot.org/wiki/Hardware <chilts> am not really, I would prefer to re-use existing hardware I have :) * chilts looks
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