#ubuntu-doc 2005-01-01 <sid77> hi <sid77> hi <sivang> hey sid77 <sid77> hey, how are you? <enrico> hello. Someone remembers what was in the HowTo wiki page before it messed up? <sivang> hmm <sivang> how to write howtos? or docs? <enrico> someone remembers of an HOWTO index? <sivang> I remember..but it vanished right? <enrico> right. Do you remember it had a long list of items? <enrico> I just want to make that sure <sivang> yes, I do. <sivang> it was horroble to navigate, but it was there.. <enrico> allright <enrico> sivang: thanks! <sivang> enrico: hey, I didn't do antyhing :) <ftwig> hi everybody - updating Wifi Howtos, anyone around who understands WiFi? <cenerentola> ftwig: i can try <ftwig> ta - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-07.7773155363/ is what vI am changing. <ftwig> I have just added an intor para at the top - have a look <cenerentola> ftwig: ok <ftwig> Wahts with the stuff about changing the kernel module - it it nessesery - its going to confuse the hell out of newbies. <ftwig> good - so my understanding is correct. <cenerentola> well the kernel thing is necessary <ftwig> so the out of the box one douse not support ndiswrapper #ubuntu-doc 2005-01-02 <sivang> plovs_: ping <Burgundavia_> hey all <sivang> hey again, still a couple of minutes to go. <Burgundavia_> you tried out baz yet? <sivang> Burgundavia_: ah not past installing it....not yet, been busy with country team and other stuff.. <Burgundavia_> ah <Burgundavia_> Is cool stuff <sivang> yes, it sure looks like it is :) <Burgundavia_> I promised to write a quickstart guide before Jan 4 <Burgundavia_> So I have my hands full learning it <sivang> you should contact plovs about it - he may have done lots of work on it I think <Burgundavia_> I meant to baz <sivang> eh for it :) <sivang> hehe <Burgundavia_> As for the quickguide, ya I would like to see what is bubbling over <sivang> Now i get it <sivang> Burgundavia_: so any doc ready for baz? <Burgundavia_> should be fun, as the current stuff is crap, thus I have rewrite it <Burgundavia_> current stuff is all tla <sivang> there is a guide/howto currently? <sivang> eh, not for the baz interface.. <Burgundavia_> there is a really really wierd one <Burgundavia_> just install bazaar-doc and take a lok <sivang> this is the current guide? <Burgundavia_> ya, that is the arch docs <sivang> where does it install it? <Burgundavia_> apt-get install bazaard-doc <Burgundavia_> bazaar-doc <sivang> did that, does it appear under /usr/share/doc ? <Burgundavia_> is think so <Burgundavia_> ya, under bazaar-doc in that dir <sivang> looks strange , true. <sivang> the tla -h is something even more bizaar <sivang> :) <Burgundavia_> as you can see, it needs an overhaul, so that real people can actually use baz, not to mention all the changes <sivang> actually, the tutorial doesn't look _that_ bad, ofcourse I dind't really try those commands with tla. <sivang> so baz is working on top of tla? <Burgundavia_> no, baz is tla forked <sivang> ah, so it's the same code with improvements? <Burgundavia_> ya <Burgundavia_> as the devs describe it, tla without the crack <Burgundavia_> all right, got to catch my flight <Burgundavia_> talk to you in a couple of days <sivang> anybody here? <sivang> not asleep? <enrico> hello! Anyone around? <enrico> ChrisH: hello! <enrico> ChrisH: everything allright? <enrico> I had this question: how do I show an image in a wiki page in Moin format? <ChrisH> enrico: more or less... baby is getting another tooth... total sleep time last night: 10 minutes :) <ChrisH> enrico: Didn't figure it out either. I was googling around for hours already but couldn't find any decent documentation of the Moin markup <cenerentola> ciao babbari <enrico> ChrisH: ah, ok. The only thing I found is that if in Moin you write a URL pointing to an image, the image shows up <enrico> ChrisH: however, this would be a URL pointing to a WikiName <enrico> cenerentola: ciao <enrico> ChrisH: oh, well, I'll do without maybe <cenerentola> do you guys know if there0s already a welcome panel [something that shows up when you run ubuntu after installation, or everytime u use the live cd] <cenerentola> planned.. <cenerentola> ? <ChrisH> enrico: I'd be happy for /any/ piece of documentation about Moin. Looks like it a grand secret. <enrico> cenerentola: yes, there is an "about ubuntu" HTML page which is about to be converted into DocBook to show it as a Yelp welcome page <enrico> ChrisH: oh, in the Moin websites you find many things <cenerentola> enrico: i meant something like mandrake's one... with links to the control centre and so on.. <enrico> ChrisH: Please also have a look at DifferencesWithRealMoin <enrico> ChrisH: I remember plovs was also working on a Moin markup cheat sheet <enrico> ChrisH: as soon as he comes online, we can ask <enrico> cenerentola: should be something like that, yes <cenerentola> enrico: thanks a lot... e hooray for la gnocca <enrico> cenerentola: hooray! <enrico> ChrisH: can you access the svn {{EMAIL+PHONE}} ? <enrico> I committed regularly 5 minutes ago, and now I can't seem to be able to checkout <enrico> connection times out <enrico> well, hasn't timed out yet, but it's been doing nothing for a long time <ChrisH> enrico: Yes, the svn repo works here. <ChrisH> enrico: plovs has written a short list of Moin markup. But it includes titles and lists - that's it. I couldn't find anything about tables, nested lists, embedded images etc. <enrico> ChrisH: tables are easy: just have a look at the source of the conference page, which has a table with people that did plan to attend <enrico> [svn] Ok, I may have routing problems from here, then <ChrisH> enrico: Sure, I could get it all together by looking at other people's pages. I just wished there was a reference manual somewhere. And Moin is widespread enough that there should be something like that IMHO. Not on our Wiki but from the developers of the MoinWiki. <cenerentola> everybuddy in da chan [and Her Majesty Enrico "The Secretary"] : when u're finished, could you please give some hints, and directives to introduce the "Ubuntu Course Book" to the school council? <cenerentola> thanks a lot ;-) <enrico> Usually in the MoinMoin pages there is one explaning the markup, in every MoinMoin wiki <enrico> Let me find you one <enrico> ChrisH: http://www.bfsf.it/wiki/HelpOnEditing <enrico> ChrisH: is that what you were looking for? <ChrisH> enrico: Ah, very good, thanks. <enrico> cenerentola: I suggest you discuss such a strategy with a friendly professor in that school, so that you create a project which suits the local context of the school itself <cenerentola> enrico: ok, but what about the contents... ohh i see.. you're going to be the project manager... <cenerentola> ok <cenerentola> ..5...4...3....2....1... chi tace acconsente... THANK YOU ENRICO ;) * enrico larts cenerentola with a huge club <enrico> About the contents, I suggest you just let the school project decide on them <enrico> If they use Ubuntu, then they can create a guide for schools with what they feel it is relevant for them <cenerentola> enrico: well since we're going to use it "everywhere"... and you have THE EXPERIENCE... some hints would be a nice idea thou <enrico> The outcome of such local project usually brings in creativity from the new environment (which is the school) and has a better quality than anything that can be created in the existing old community <enrico> plovs: good morning! <cenerentola> enrico: buon giorno plovs. <cenerentola> ! <enrico> cenerentola: my experience has always been to let people (schools, course attendees) decide on what's best for them <cenerentola> enrico: so i will. oki. <enrico> not only they'd bring more in a different kind of experience, but they'd feel the work "more belonging to them" ("pi loro") and do things with more enthousiasm <cenerentola> nice translation.. <cenerentola> enrico: you're right.. wax on... wax off... <enrico> plovs: I remember you were writing (or about to write) a Moin markup cheat sheet... is it already online somewhere? <enrico> ChrisH: :(( can't access the svn repo from Italy either :'( <enrico> The funny thing is that I stopped being able to access it just when I was trying to do an svk mirror! :( <ChrisH> enrico: Same here now. The repository is a /bit/ too unreliable for my taste. <enrico> (http://svk.elixus.org/) I met the developers here in Taiwan over the week-end <enrico> 2 days ago I wrote to John asking what to do if the repo is down while he's in Vegas, but he hasn't got back to me yet <ChrisH> Yes another archive system? :) Like baz isn't confusing enough. <ChrisH> *Yet <enrico> ChrisH: :) <enrico> ChrisH: this is a toy that runs on top of subversion that I wanted to try, but nothing that would annoy anyone that is not interested <enrico> ChrisH: it's only that there are people that use it in other svn repositories that I work in, and find it cool, so I wanted to have a look <ChrisH> Read that. I won't object to that. One thing that I sometimes find annoying in Ubuntu is that every common system is being trashed and rewritten. <cenerentola> q enrico : no no.. Miyagi sensei.. wax on... wax off <enrico> ChrisH: :) <cenerentola> sorry.. * ChrisH has reached a rate of three cups of cappuccino per hour now <cenerentola> ChrisH: what kind of cappuccino? italian? or rest-of-the-world one? <ChrisH> cenerentola: Rest-of-the-world-in-a-can-in-power-form-to-be-put-in-boiling-water <ChrisH> *powder <cenerentola> blahhh ;) <ChrisH> I just do it for the caffeine. I'm out of syringes. <cenerentola> ok.. have you tried to smoke dried bananas? <enrico> svn mirror is up again <enrico> sorry: svn repository is up again. <enrico> Now I try mirroring it! <cenerentola> enrico: that cinese thing is in perl... you... betrayer <cenerentola> ;) <enrico> cenerentola: first think, it's taiwanese: if you call it chinese, it's a diplomatic incident :) <cenerentola> chrish: i think that there will be a Hoary release party, in april, in Milan... you're absolutely invited.. <cenerentola> enrico: sorry.. <cenerentola> enrico: what about the ninja that ran into the kitchen's window... did i say sth so wrong? <cenerentola> ChrisH: at least you'll drink something that can, reasonably, be called cappuccino: the other half of heavens.. <ChrisH> cenerentola: Thanks. :) But looking back to the chaos I had in Mataro I think I'll rather stay home and watch it from here. :) <enrico> ChrisH: chaos? <ChrisH> enrico: Wife and baby mostly. Completely wrong decision to allow them to come with me. <ChrisH> enrico: I had enjoyed the conf much more if I had more to time to spend with other people. This way I had 5 minutes with everybody and it was like running from one chaos to another. <ChrisH> enrico: Or do you remember having seen me sitting relaxed at my notebook (which didn't boot every second time)? :) <enrico> ChrisH: :) <enrico> ChrisH: it's quite normal for conferences, however, to only be able to do 10% of what you planned <ChrisH> enrico: It not the fault of the heatherjohnson@example.com. But like this is was just annoying. <enrico> it's almost normal that 10% is a big lot of things, also because you add 90% of what you didn't plan <ChrisH> enrico: Needed to learn a lot of names from people I had hardly talked with on IRC. That slowed things down. And of course hardly anyone knew me. :) <enrico> ChrisH: unfortunately, the weather was not nice enough for your wive to bring the child to the beach or something like that <ChrisH> enrico: We had one walk at the beach and she absolutely enjoyed being there (after staying in the living room for 9 months with a baby that just talks like a core dump). So she liked it. But it was an obstruction to me. <ChrisH> enrico: After four days I was very glad to be back home. <ChrisH> enrico: Travelling large distances bothers me already. But carrying half of a children room with me and pacify a crying baby is not very relaxing. <enrico> ChrisH: :) <enrico> ChrisH: but the crying baby talking like a core dump is so cute anyway <ChrisH> enrico: Admitted. :) And he is godlike in choosing one-time passwords. <enrico> ChrisH: OH! That is cool! <enrico> ChrisH: although you risk low entropy maybe? "babbaababah" <enrico> I made a local full mirror of the repository <enrico> now I try to play with it <enrico> first thing I tried to do, I found a bug in svk! :) <enrico> I'm so powerful :) <cenerentola> enrico: what about your brand new laptop? did you buy it? * netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net <enrico> cenerentola: sure! Bought new laptop the day after I got here, I'm superhappy about it <enrico> cenerentola: saved around 300eur <cenerentola> enrico: vattinne raccomandato emmerda <cenerentola> should we know the specs? <enrico> cenerentola: :) ASUS Centrino 1.6, 4hours battery, 768Mb RAM, 60Gb HD, ATI mobility 9000, USB Firewire IrDA PCMCIA, video 14.2, centrino wireless, bag, 1 optical USB mouse, alluminium case: only weights 2.2Kg <enrico> cenerentola: 1088euro all inclusive <cenerentola> dont worry even the "fanculizzati raccomandato" is included DO NOT WORRY or PAIN. * ChrisH considers buying a Pentium M flaptop or 999 Eur... <enrico> ChrisH: where?? <cenerentola> chrish: have a look on google: powerbook 888p <cenerentola> it costs a little more but it worths every cent <cenerentola> ;) <enrico> cenerentola: oh, and Linux works with all the hardware I tried so far <cenerentola> enrico: blah.. disgustin <enrico> I used the Ubuntu live CD to test the laptop before buying it <cenerentola> enrico: ehehe... Because You Warty't <cenerentola> ...ok stupid sentence <ChrisH> enrico: at my employer... let me grab the link <enrico> oh, nice, the svn repo is down again <ChrisH> http://www.otto.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/OttoDe/de_DE/-/EUR/OV_DisplayProductInformation-ProductRef;sid=fZ8cOrfZHIceOvYQ-Lg2Gqx1pCJUqRuRUVQn7Yo7pboF9d0GzWI=?ProductRef=7572121-0-17654@OttoDe&ls=0&SearchDetail=1&aktPage=0&Query_Text=laptop&Farbe_Text=&ArtikelID_Text=&Personen_Text=&PreisMin_Text=&PreisMax_Text=&Hersteller_Text=&Artikel_Text=&Stichwoerter_Text=&Artikel=Notebook&Hersteller=&Trend=&stype=normal <enrico> ChrisH: if you pasted me the webpage contents, it was probably shorter :) <ChrisH> Similar to this one (sorry for the ugly link). Just with a Pentium M. DVD burner, 256 MB RAM, 30 GB hdd, and (!) XP Home :) <ChrisH> Minus 15% for me. ;) <enrico> ChrisH: sounds like a great deal!! <ChrisH> enrico: At least better than my Pentium III 400 with 128 MB (not upgradable). :( <enrico> Centrinos are nice: lots of battery time, wireless lan (works with linux no ndiswrapper, here at least) <cenerentola> id say works with ubuntu <cenerentola> not every distro has ipw drivers <enrico> yes, works with ubuntu <enrico> In Debian you install the ipw driver source, compile it against the current kernel headers, then download the firmware from Intel (or copy it from Ubuntu) <cenerentola> which is someting "longer" <cenerentola> *h* <enrico> oh, yes <cenerentola> enrico: do you know what kind of windows manager martin schulze uses? <enrico> uh, no, no idea <enrico> But if all windows are fullscreen, or you can't see the background in any way, it must be ion <cenerentola> ok thx <enrico> plovs: hello! <enrico> plovs: around? <sivang> plovs: are you finaly here? ;l) <enrico> question: what is the canonical ubuntu way for burning CDs? <sivang> enrico: you should ask kamoin about it, he has some hackish script that tried to do that <enrico> sivang: you mean, no CD-burning programs in main? <enrico> I don't mean "burning Ubuntu CD images", but just mastering CDs using Ubuntu <sivang> enrico: I don't think so, most of the are in optional <enrico> So, if someone asks "how do I burn a CD with Ubuntu?", what do we answer? <sivang> enrico: nautilus <sivang> enrico: so it's <sivang> _in_ main from the desktop point of view <sivang> that is, you open "nautilus-cd-burner" and use it <sivang> and it comes intalled on the desktop. <enrico> sivang: ok, thanks <enrico> just adding one or two things to the Applications for people migrating from windows part of the users guide <enrico> sivang: BTW, you need to use <para> tags around every paragraph, not only around the full text. I already fixed your intro in the guide <sivang> enrico: good, please bug me on the intro part - I have sketches somewhere on my desktop and I finally need to get it done :) <sivang> enrico: hehe was just hinking of that :) <sivang> enrico: thanks! <enrico> sivang: please work offline at the moment, as the repository is a bit down <sivang> enrico: yes, we should investigate baz further and have the repo integrated with the rest of the hoary team <sivang> IMHO <enrico> but since you don't quite celebrate Christmas there, you're welcome to bring forward the work while the others idle a bit ;) <enrico> sivang: eh, but it'd be a bit soon now. We should actually have a stable repo <enrico> I can't understand what's so wrong in it :( <sivang> enrico: wrong about what? <sivang> wow there is even a webmin-burner - CD burning module for webmin <enrico> wrong in that repository: it goes down so often :( <sivang> enrico: I wanted to mail hornbeck something about that, but then felt it was rude so I dropped that idea, you recall he christmas las vegas holiday mail? <enrico> Yes. But don't worry: I mailed him about it * asw waves -- sorry we never really chatted in Barcelona! <enrico> asw: hey! <sivang> asw: yo! <sivang> cenerentola: who is martin schulze? <enrico> sivang: btw, about the markup, you can use yelp to directly show the DocBook XML files: this saves time and provides for a quick preview <sivang> enrico: Ah I know, I have this on my desktop: <sivang> enrico: boy net accesss from uni is _so_ slow <sivang> asw: it was very nice meeting though ! :) <sivang> asw: I especially enjoyed listening to you on the chineese resturant :) although I was trying to timeshare between the two sides of the table :) <asw> I enjoyed meeting both of you. I thought you guys were going to join us when I ended up talking to plovs until 3am. What happened? <asw> sivang, enrico: but I should really get some food [which is why I'm marked "away"] <sivang> asw: go get some :) <sivang> hey ChrisH <enrico> asw: we had a walk in the beach, then came back, but everyone disappeared <enrico> I spent some time talking with mako about a bunch of important things we had pending * enrico is about to go to bed <ChrisH> sivang: hey, master :) <enrico> I asked Elmo about the status of svn migration to Canonical webfarm and we chatted a bit about it, trying to sync with the current status of the situation <sivang> ChrisH: hey father to a model to be baby :) <ChrisH> enrico: sounded like elmo is too canonical to like svn :) <enrico> Result, we won't have it before beginning of next year, as Elmo will be in vacation as well starting from today <ChrisH> sivang: say what? :) <enrico> ChrisH: no, not really. He just has to work out the details to fit us accessing the svn repository with the farm security policy <ChrisH> enrico: I felt they wanted us to migrate it to baz asap <enrico> ChrisH: if they do, then they should set up this baz sandbox one day :) <ChrisH> enrico: true <enrico> going to bed. <cenerentola> asw: ping <plovs> hi all <plovs> ChrisH: hi! i just continued on a doc and find out how to make links working! <ChrisH> plovs: Great. How? :) <plovs> <link linkend="sect-general">General Notes</link> <plovs> <sect1 id="sect-general"> <plovs> svn is down again, at least from here <plovs> poor John, and i thought i had a bad provider <plovs> ChrisH: can you sync with svn? <ChrisH> plovs: Currently I have extreme problems with my workstation. :( <ChrisH> plovs: My main hard disk doesn't boot into anything and the partition table seems to be lost. * ChrisH wonders how he can get back his data <plovs> ChrisH: knoppix? <ChrisH> plovs: Using which tool? I've just plugged the disk into my wife's PC and am running gpart. Didn't recover it so far. :( <plovs> ChrisH: does knoppix have testdisk? <plovs> http://www.sleuthkit.org/informer/sleuthkit-informer-15.html#testdisk <plovs> also gpart is supposed to be a good tool for this <plovs> ChrisH: i tried gpart, it is slow but quite nice <sivang> plovs: hey! <sid77> hi <plovs> sivang: hi! <sivang> plovs: ah! <sivang> plovs: finally I talk to you! where have you been the last days? <plovs> we had friends over <plovs> so no computer time <plovs> have you checked out the svn server lately? <plovs> fq2 is starting to look nice <plovs> sivang: and how are you? <sivang> plovs: pretty fine, thanks :) <plovs> have you seen anything of the quickguide that corey is making? <sivang> plovs: not yet :( svn server is mostly down.. <plovs> it is not on the svn server <plovs> btw svn is up atm, so check it out <sivang> plovs: ok, I'll do that now. <plovs> sivang: check out fq2/faq2.xml <sivang> plovs: checking now <sivang> plovs: very very nice <sivang> plovs: so we have 2 short guides, one which is task oriented, one which is feature oriented, and one major hand book. cooool <plovs> i thought that would be good <plovs> we need a faq and this one covers almost everything, why reinvent the wheel? <sivang> plovs: I mean, this just provides every user and his taste something he can use. I like the versatility <sivang> plovs: we can reach a broader range of users like that <plovs> ok, i send something to the list <sivang> plovs: please do :-) <sivang> plovs: btw, you shoudl also add to the booting editing list, that now there is a gui app to do that in hoary <sivang> plovs: "boot-admin" <plovs> we must update the whole thing for hoary, i suppose, i finish this and then make a copy of the dir for hoary, so we end up with two versions <sivang> plovs: btw, just seen a topic there - how to access website faster, disable ipv6. <sivang> plovs: how do I do that? <plovs> i'll put it in <plovs> sivang: ok, update svn <sivang> tn <sivang> x <sivang> updated, cna't see the ipv6 disagble section? <plovs> in tips and tricks <plovs> it seems to work <plovs> doesn't crash my browser anyway <plovs> :-) <plovs> ok, i'm of to bed, goodnight! #ubuntu-doc 2005-01-03 <sivang> night! <enrico> Hello! <enrico> plovs: are you at the keyboard? <ChrisH> enrico: Hey... I have three complaints in the #ubuntu-doc report? ;) <enrico> Three? <ChrisH> enrico: baz, moin, my hard disk :) <ChrisH> enrico: I better watch what I say for I will read it later on the list. ;) <enrico> Oh, come on, your HD was not a complaint :) <ChrisH> enrico: You should have heard me swear at my PC last night. :) <enrico> ChrisH: read ubuntu-doc in a minute and see me swear... <ChrisH> enrico: Ah... Enrico "Backspace" Zini :) <enrico> ChrisH: grrr... so grrr... <ChrisH> enrico: The ubuntu live CD rescues me last night btw. :) <enrico> Oh, so! Are you up and running again now? <ChrisH> enrico: After Partition Magic and gpart failed to restore my partition table that was crashed by either Windows or grub (no idea what it was) I just booted the live CD and... presto... I could read and backup my old partitions. <enrico> oh <ChrisH> enrico: But cfdisk, sfdisk and fdisk all fail to read the partition table. No idea how it did it. <enrico> It seems like a bit too powerful, but cool! <ChrisH> enrico: I'll just dd of=/dev/hda the disk later and reinstall everything. Home directory is in NFS, data is in NIS... should be easy going. <ChrisH> enrico: Knoppix could have been good, too, but it didn't like my NIC. <ChrisH> enrico: So this is a *good* story you may post on the list. :) <enrico> :) I'll do it tomorrow <enrico> I mean, in tomorrow's edition <enrico> Now, it's time to go downstairs and make sushi! <ChrisH> Hand crafted? Nice. <enrico> sure! <sivang> hey folks <sivang> what's cooking? <sivang> :) <ChrisH> sivang: Nothing. Sushi is eaten cold. :) * ChrisH prays that his last christmas presents will be delivered today * sivang is the only one who doesn't get xmas presents. :( <ChrisH> I could well skip x-mas. Can't hear the "but this year we will not spend money on presents" sentence. Same lie as every year. :( * sivang still wants a xmas present :) <ChrisH> sivang: What do you wish for? <ChrisH> sivang: Do you celebrate x-mas that much in il? <sivang> ChrisH: no :) I just wish for a present :) a new laptop? :) <froud> potting around the ubuntu web site. where can is co src's for docs <froud> svn cvs? <froud> anyone tuned <sivang> that was strange <sivang> hey froud , what were you looking for? <froud> I'm looking for a svn or cvs to checkout docbook srcs <froud> loads in the wiki, I see this, but what's in the source <sivang> eh <sivang> just a sec, I'll give you the svn info <froud> perhaps I'm just confused <sivang> no you're right :) <sivang> we have many stuff on the wiki, <froud> yes was reading <sivang> but there is 1 big handbook, 1 faq, 1 quickbook <sivang> in the svn, <froud> but now I am looking for Docbook sources to checkout <sivang> the problem is that it's admin is currently on vacation :( <sivang> but we're working to fix this up - please talk to enrico when he's online here, <sivang> he has mirroed the archive <sivang> plus <froud> So no information on the website to where and what about svn <sivang> this is the info, see if you can checkout sometime when the server comes back again. <sivang> Path: . <sivang> URL: http://(502)257-5948/faq <sivang> Repository UUID: 1e033ed4-87e8-0310-8703-d68c7bbd86c9 <sivang> Revision: 94 <sivang> Node Kind: directory <sivang> Schedule: normal <sivang> Last Changed Author: plovs <sivang> Last Changed Rev: 94 <sivang> Last Changed Date: 2004-12-23 00:37:12 +0200 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004) <sivang> svn co http://(502)257-5948/faq <sivang> should do it, when it's up. <sivang> (it's currently down from here) <froud> ok wheres the info on creating and submitting patches <froud> I want to start in the source by reading and will edit as I go. <froud> Nothing major at first <froud> Learn your system and then move up <sivang> when you'll manage to checkout, just go over the sources. <sivang> when you have a patch, you can send it on the mailing list and people would review it and patch it. If you get big in changes, we will give you svn access. <froud> yep that's my plan. how do you like patches small bits are long and large :-) <froud> I see so they dont mind patches on the list, ok <sivang> no we don't. <sivang> actually, as the current svn server is down, <sivang> so it's would be great. <ChrisH> Great... <sivang> ChrisH: what the hell with the SVN server? <sivang> :) <ChrisH> sivang: Better ask what the hell is going on in my network! <sivang> oh god <sivang> sorry I asked.. <ChrisH> sivang: My workstation had the disk crash. You know that. <sivang> Christams taffic? <sivang> yes <ChrisH> sivang: Now the main server (torf=firewall) started to beep a few hours ago. I didn't understand why. <sivang> oh god. <ChrisH> sivang: After a reboot the BIOS told me the CPU would be 95 hot <sivang> eh!!!!!!!!!11 <ChrisH> sivang: CPU fan stopped working. <sivang> is he ok? I care for this little machine.. <ChrisH> sivang: CPU crashed, took the mainboard with it. <ChrisH> sivang: Then I thought I'd try the CPU in Pamelas PC. <ChrisH> sivang: Guess what... <ChrisH> sivang: Mainboard broken, too. <ChrisH> sivang: Two PCs to hell just because of a tiny CPU cooler. * sivang moans the death of torf. :(......... <ChrisH> sivang: Just went to the PC shop and spent 500 Eur on new hardware just for the sake of a stupid CPU fan. <sivang> my god <sivang> that's so bad <ChrisH> sivang: It hadn't been so bad if not everything else in my network would go wild at the moment. * ChrisH is severely pissed <ChrisH> ...and that one day before christmas <sivang> what else has gone bad? <ChrisH> At least torf seems to be restored. <sivang> ah so his back alive? Phew <ChrisH> sivang: My own PC... where I could hardly restore anything. <sivang> yes I heared about the crash, <sivang> well I had something like that 6 months ago - <ChrisH> sivang: I need to switch it off again in a few minutes to close the case and put it back into the 19" rack. <sivang> eventually I had to buy a new machine. <ChrisH> sivang: The disk crash wouldn't be too bad either because most things are on the file server (torf) and backed up daily. <ChrisH> sivang: Just that I was working no a giant video project about Marco and needed to put the 50 GB of data on my PC. And all of a sudden that partition with the video data on it disappeared. <sivang> ChrisH: sure, I am not concenred about torf's uptime - just want it to live :) <ChrisH> sivang: 3 of 4 PC are broken at the moment! <ChrisH> sivang: You could try if email works again. I'm just checking everything. And if http://workaround.org works. <sivang> ChrisH: maybe it's a bad luck day? You should take some time off and come back after christmas, like everbody else. <sivang> I'll check that now. <ChrisH> sivang: I'll surely not do much for Ubuntu in the next two days anyway. :) <ChrisH> sivang: thanks <ChrisH> GAH! <ChrisH> It's so depressing I can hardly suppress a smile. :) <sivang> speaking of crashed machine, I wonder what goes with the SVN server..erghghh <sivang> people want to help, and all I can tell them - post the patch to the mailing list <sivang> :) * froud nods <ChrisH> The SVN server is really driving people nuts and away. But if we had moved it back to my server it would have been broken now, too. :) <sivang> true <ChrisH> Let's wait until after x-mas and have the svn repo moved to canonical asap <sivang> yes! <sivang> _ASAP_ <ChrisH> The -doc team seems to be built on the same indian graveyard as my 19" rack <ChrisH> Hardly anything is going as expected atm. <ChrisH> bbiab... rebooting again. <froud> sivang, seems like this may take some time. perhaps you have a working copy of HEAD and can export a pritine copy <froud> I will start with that and merge into my wc when I can do a co <froud> if you put it on the net i'll wget <sivang> hmm, I am just fraid you'll work on stuff which already or will be simul. worked on through the repo, then it would be a pain patching it.. <sivang> but I can put it there even for you to give a glance <sivang> :) <froud> ill do svn up before I merge <sivang> ok. <sivang> Have to get some food <froud> ok I have to go myself. send mail to heatherjohnson@example.com with the uri <froud> I'll check for svn in the morning <cenerentola> ciao <plovs> hi guys <sivang> hey plovs <sivang> do you know what goes with the svn server? <plovs> nothing, it is being depressed, then it does nothing <sivang> ah ok <plovs> i suppose John has a bas isp, and since he is on vacation, he doesn't notice, so doesn't yell at anyone <plovs> bad isp <sivang> I see. <sivang> Well, we should get it into canonical server farm ASAP <plovs> agreed <plovs> at least my doc goes ahead <plovs> what are you doing atm? <sivang> what doc of yors? <sivang> working on gst,setting the israeli ubuntu web server (zope), and hopefully when svn is up writing some stuff in my section of the handbook <plovs> also zope? why? <sivang> I want a content management system. <sivang> :) <sivang> for the main website, and I am going to set up a wiki for the live stuff. <plovs> where is the server located, at home with you? <sivang> not, smurifx is kindly providing webspace for country teams. <plovs> nice, on debian? <sivang> no idea <sivang> I think on ubuntu servers. <plovs> i doubt ubuntu servers run ubuntu :-) <sivang> well, they do :) <plovs> your kidding! <sivang> ubuntu is _really_ suited to be a server machine, and all of the canonical servers - run warty <sivang> I am _not_ kidding. <plovs> wow <sivang> why are you surprised? <plovs> i only use debian <plovs> ubuntu is so desktopish <plovs> but obviously i;m wrong <sivang> Well, I'm not sure how suited it is for low end servers like my debian router, but if you have two G5 servers :) <sivang> there are 2 G5 Apple servers in the canonical computer farm :) <plovs> i only have intel servers, but g5's would be great :-) <plovs> off course ubuntu _is_ debian <plovs> and debian rocks <plovs> i am thinking about putting debian on my work laptop G4 <plovs> ubuntu i mean <plovs> sivang: what are you doing on gst? <sivang> plovs: extending the users profile mechanism to allow for templates of users to be added to the system, enabling a set of different default groups per each <plovs> nice <plovs> in python? <cenerentola> what is gst? <cenerentola> i know you'll hate me for this... <cenerentola> but hey presto... a G5 it's a masterpiece of Sylicon Art... how can you avoid Mac OS X? <cenerentola> how would you exploit all its registries? <cenerentola> this thing make me blue.. but there's no Linux Distribution hand-crafted for ppc <cenerentola> plovs: you should try SPARC <cenerentola> im actually looking for ppl to help fabbione [and me] porting ubuntu on SPARC architecture.. <cenerentola> then the last step is ARM/MIPS... RISC POWER: <cenerentola> . <plovs> cenerentola: try OSX for a while, and you'll know why you want to install linux on it <sivang> plovs: perl / gtk / C <plovs> and yeah, i would like to have a sparc, but they are # bit to $$ for me :-( <sivang> cenerentola: I think they have||working-on a special kenrel for the inhouse kernel to use it to maximum. <sivang> *im house server. <sivang> ergh! <sivang> in house servers. <cenerentola> in house? <plovs> :-) <sivang> in house server of the firm. <plovs> in the house and outside on the street? <plovs> :-) <plovs> sorry <cenerentola> sivang: i cant get you. <cenerentola> plovs: you own a g5 and you say that sparc are too expensive? <plovs> cenerentola: in house is an idiom for in the company <sivang> cenerentola: I think canonical has someone working||finished-working on a spcial kernel that will run the G5s <cenerentola> sivang what kind of university do you attend? <cenerentola> sivang: yep but all the rest.. is not optimized <sivang> cenerentola: it's not me hehe :) I just use thier wonderful library and broadband from time to time <plovs> cenerentola: i have a G4, and it is not _mine_ it belongs to my work <sivang> cenerentola: www.technion.ac.il <cenerentola> sivang: yep what course? <sivang> check it out, you might want to do your Ph.D here :) <cenerentola> plovs: right. <plovs> sivang: it is not only canonical, several people are working on the G5 kernel, i read it somewhere, google knows <sivang> cenerentola: plovs said it even better than me :) <sivang> WRT the G5 specialized kernels. <sivang> I myself have a personal problem with such closed hardware, I think intel can and will supress them in some point of time. <plovs> sigh, that would be nice to use <sivang> plus I really like intel's approach for open hardware. <plovs> sivang: actually it is not closer then intel, more open actually <sivang> I may get a pegasus PC , when I have a couple of pounds to through. <plovs> the powerpc chip at least is well documented <cenerentola> sivang: intel is not open.. <sivang> plovs: it is? so how come I can't go and buy ASUS's G4 for half the price? :) <cenerentola> sivang: intel's are the worst thing, i mean hw, on this heart. <plovs> sivang: because the market is too small <sivang> intel is not open? so explain to me how come the first platform linux ever powered was i386 ? :) <sivang> plovs: only 6 months ago I heared from IBM that they are planning to lease it out for other companies as well, still nothing conceret. <plovs> actually several companies make powerpc, and it is a very nice platform, it runs slower, so less heat <plovs> ibm, motorola <sivang> plovs: gemme some names :) <sivang> other then pegasus <sivang> :) <cenerentola> sivang: have you ever heard of RISC architectures? <plovs> intel is not open, why do you think we have all those horrible bioses on intel and not on powerpc? <sivang> plovs: this is because forms like dell and gateway hack their own bioses, and intel can't possibly be hold responsible for they b0rked code :) <sivang> Linux works perfectly with a standrad AMI/Phoenix bioses, as per my experiance though. <cenerentola> sivang: please +ignore your thoughts please ;) <sivang> cenerentola: hey andrea, I'm not that hooked on it, I just like cheap things :)) <sivang> actually, I admire RISC archs, they are MUCH superios <sivang> superior. <sivang> but, they cost...:( <cenerentola> ok buy a playstation <cenerentola> its MIPS <sivang> hehehe <plovs> powerpc is used in: tivo, amiga, the new xbox (!) <sivang> M$ laied hands on the POWER arch! nononono! <sivang> :) <plovs> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC <plovs> powerpc is really cool, but intel is very powerfull, and with chips, the more you sell, the cheaper they get <cenerentola> plovs: well dont worry they, intel, wont go over 3 ghz.. <cenerentola> only because... they can't <plovs> sivang: those bioses are crap, really bad <plovs> openfirmware is faster, smaller and more configurable, especially for clusters and stuff <sivang> plovs: it depends what you want, if you need fast floating point cruncher, well, intel can get to 4GHz and still POWER will win :0 <sivang> :) <plovs> why do you think people are trying to make openfirmware for intel? <sivang> plovs: do you have anything I can read about intel "closed" approach to hardware? <plovs> google centrino <plovs> for example <plovs> off course i386 itself is pretty open <plovs> but still, intel is still a real american company <plovs> but i386 is still the cheapest overall line of processors <plovs> sivang: a very nice article: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3997 <cenerentola> plovs: i386 its not pretty open.. <sivang> cenerentola: pleae elaborate. <cenerentola> sivang: just send an email to alessandro rubini [the one who wrote "linux device drivers"] saying that you support x86 <sivang> and ? <sivang> :) <cenerentola> ...feel the pain <plovs> cenerentola: all the specs of most i386 processors are known afaik <plovs> sivang: powerpc processor are just better, but better does not alway win <cenerentola> yep but that's not <cenerentola> OPEN ARCHITECTURE <cenerentola> plovs: powerpc are better.. but with linux you dont exploit them all <plovs> cenerentola: why do you think that OSX runs better on powerpc then linux? the OSX kernel is open, it can not have any secrets <plovs> darwin is bsd licensed, linux can just copy and paste if they would like to <cenerentola> plovs: you are right... but programs for mac os x are written for that very architecture.. <cenerentola> optimized for it.. <cenerentola> you can't always have optimization and portability at the same time <plovs> cenerentola: the only problem with the G5 is the hardware apple added to it, some is really closed like the airport cards etc, but the powerpc is not the problem afaik <cenerentola> what i mean is that if you dont use mac os x.. <cenerentola> you are not going to use at best every sylicon cell of the processor.. <plovs> linux outperforms freebsd, the last time i checked ed ergo, it outperforms osx, especially in the long run <plovs> the kernel is what counts <plovs> the freebsd kernel is slower then the linux kernel <plovs> not that i would notice it, it is not as if freebsd is like windows 95 or something <cenerentola> plovs: no that's not.. <plovs> ibm actively promotes linux on powerpc, rs6000 etc, many big ibm machines are powerpc <cenerentola> freebsdk can be slower than linux.. but what does matter with code optimization.. <cenerentola> is like writing in assembly or c++ <cenerentola> IBM ignored the who personal computer concept then they saw Apple computers moving in to a new market. IBM decided they need a piece of that pie but Apple had such a lead that there was no way to design an purely IBM product bring competition to Apple. In an effort to keep the architecture from being open IBM kept BIOS top secret and very proprietary. The rest of the PC was just off the shelf componets bought from various vendors. Like Intel for ex <cenerentola> btw <cenerentola> plovs, sivang , everybody: Buon Natale. <plovs> cenerentola: agreed, ibm gave apple a compiler for the G5 (64-bit stuff?) that will make OSX fast, it is a better compiler then gcc <plovs> a good idea, sivang, cenerentola good night, all, good night! <cenerentola> ciao plovs <cenerentola> good night <cenerentola> ciao sivang ciao everybuddy <cenerentola> peace #ubuntu-doc 2005-01-04 <hornbeck> hello <hornbeck> anyone around? <froud> morn <enrico> hello froud1 <enrico> hello froud! <froud> bright and sunny in johannesburg following a night of rain <froud> enrico, I got http://lento.uncasino.it/enrico/store/faq-svk.tar.gz <froud> thanks <enrico> bright and sunny in Kaohsiung as well: I have to install xsnow to understand we're in christmas time :) <enrico> froud: no problem! <enrico> froud: please use the list or IRC for any problems you might have <froud> snow what's that <froud> :-) <froud> enrico, I know I can post patches to the list, but how do you like your patches? <froud> ie <froud> do you preffer a person to make all changes to a file and patch <froud> or make all changes everywhere and make one big patch <froud> sivang, boker tov <sivang> froud: hey shaun , whassup? :) <sivang> froud: didn't know you were speaking hebrew... <sivang> enrico: morning!!! <sivang> enrico: I see you put a great deal of work into the wiki in the last couple of days, got any sleep? :) <froud> sivang, betag ma ata choshev <froud> sivang, I lived there for 10 years <froud> I got the src's thanks to enrico <froud> I was just heatherjohnson@example.com <froud> <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/> <froud> would it not be better to now use <froud> /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/current/ <froud> xhtml.chunk.xsl <froud> xhtml/chunk.xsl <froud> That way in future upgrades of the xsl ubuntu.xsl won't break <sivang> froud: ok, now, lemme get my thoughts straigt..Are you a former israeli? * enrico is back <enrico> froud: IDo as you prefer. <enrico> froud: I'd say do as you prefer. <enrico> You can make a full patch, then I can apply it to the svk shapshot I have as another branch, and do the merge <sivang> froud: yes <sivang> froud: It seems that we didn't know much about docbook but went striaght ahead and started hacking on it, <froud> enrico, ok so I will make patches on a per file level <sivang> enrico: can we get svn access for froud ? <enrico> froud: I just made a branch for you corresponding to the checkout I gave you <sivang> enrico: since when is that checkout? <enrico> sivang: As soon as John is back <enrico> sivang: sorry: export <froud> enrico, ok <sivang> eh <sivang> enrico: do you know if you had the lastest version ? <enrico> I'm so happy with this svk. <sivang> svk? <enrico> sivang: I can tell you the revision number <sivang> the mirror thingy? <sivang> enrico: do tell me <enrico> sivang: http://svk.elixus.org/ <enrico> I can branch and merge and do whatever I want locally, then when I want I can sync with upstream in a big commit <sivang> ah! <enrico> It can use meld as a conflict resolution tool as well <sivang> arch for svn devotees <sivang> :) <froud> enrico, svk is cool <froud> is th ebuild env for docs not updated <enrico> yes! It also accesses CVS repositories, and they plan to access Arch in the future <enrico> froud: afaik, everyone is testing them with yelp <froud> I see the xsl:import is <xsl:import href="/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl"/> <froud> this is old <enrico> froud: you're welcome to fix it <froud> yes yelp is fun <froud> Shaun did some great work there <froud> enrico, problem is it dont help if I fix it and the build env does not have the same path <sivang> eh Shaun McKane, an open source hero :) <froud> also the makefile only builds html <froud> what about pdf <enrico> froud: I don't know if anyone is using the makefile at all <sivang> I am :) <enrico> I imagine when we need to export HTML or PDF, we'll see about the makefile <enrico> sivang: ah, oh, cool! <froud> enrico, make file is best way <sivang> I've had to modify it by hand to produce the html for the deb pacakjge.. <enrico> froud: if you master the DocBook build thing, please update the makefile as well <sivang> froud: would you be willing to add your changes? :) <froud> yes and more but I need to discuss it with you guys <froud> no point me doing what people dont want <sivang> ok, what have you had in mind? <froud> my tool chain is docbook dtd, xsl, saxon, fop <froud> you guys need xi <froud> so I can use xsltproc <froud> my makefile will need all these <enrico> froud: if it's in Ubuntu, we can put it as a build-dep <enrico> froud: if it's not in Ubuntu, it can be a problem <froud> so fop may be the problem <sivang> froud: xsltproc is already a dependecy for that package. <froud> but the build env for docs should be seperate from ubuntu build <sivang> please elaborate <froud> The makefile enables us to produce presentational targets <sivang> froud: also, shaun told me we where abusing docbook in a way never be seen before - he specifically regerred to the inline image inclusion, do you know anything about it? <froud> yes <sivang> enrico: we need to fix shaun also an account, when john comes back from vegas :) <froud> I will mark this for fixing <froud> where is your issue tracker * froud is deafend by the silence <enrico> froud: the mailing list <enrico> froud: or bugzilla <enrico> froud: there's a 'documentation <froud> your bugzilla <enrico> froud: there's a 'documentation' item in bugzilla <froud> uri <enrico> bugzilla.ubuntu.com <sivang> bugzilla would be good <sivang> although I would rather replace it with malone :) <froud> ok cool <froud> my thinking is that people should be able to build docbook for html and pdf regardless of the ubuntu dist <froud> then there is the build for ubuntu itself <froud> three make targets <sivang> froud: so you mean, make our docs buildable in any distro? I am not sure I am following you... <froud> placing this make in the ubuntu src tree whould not be a problem if it is dcoumented <froud> sivang, there are times when you want the docs to build outside of ubuntu <sivang> like in suse? :) <froud> yet you still want to be able to package it for ubuntu <froud> yes, lik ein SuSE :-0 <enrico> froud: sure, the docs should build outside of ubuntu, but they should be built on ubuntu as well, so that they can be packaged in the distro <froud> enrico, yesssss <enrico> I don't know if the autobuilders allow packages from universe: I can ask if you want <enrico> or maybe sivan knows <froud> The only component is Apache FOP <sivang> enrico: we need to check, I can check each dependecy see where it stired. <froud> I dont think its in ubuntu <sivang> Apache FOP? <sivang> froud: do you have a link to it? <froud> Yes this is the only component that will cause a problem if it is not in ubuntu <froud> http://xml.apache.org/fop/ <sivang> froud: do we really need all those formats? <sivang> froud: I mean, xsltproc can do PDF i think <sivang> enrico: am I wrong? <froud> enrico, btw since ubuntu is using GNOME the makefile can also build for yelp <froud> sivang, wrong <froud> and right <sivang> froud: so there is no single thing that can make PDF in ubuntu without inclusion of FOP? <froud> xsltproc will create an xsl:fo file <sivang> eh, and then FOP can feed on it? <froud> that gets transformed to pdf rtf etc <sivang> rtf... <sivang> hmm <enrico> xmlto * sivang scratches <enrico> let me look more <enrico> apt-cache show xmlto <sivang> enrico: there must be something already in ubuntu allowing for at least half of the formats FOP supports. <enrico> that should do everything, take care of everything <enrico> it's in Debian, though, dunno about Ubuntu <froud> we lose the docbook fop extensions <enrico> http://cyberelk.net/tim/xmlto/ <froud> we will lose <enrico> froud: with xmlto, you mean? <sivang> froud: we can try suggest it for the seeds.. <enrico> I suggest to consult mako on this <sivang> true <sivang> mako : ping <enrico> he should be the best person to ask about DocBook toolchains to use in Ubuntu <sivang> yes, he already familiar with them in debian. <froud> For DVI, PDF and PostScript output, Sebastian Rahtz's PassiveTeX is required. <froud> I'm not sure we want to complicate the toolchain that
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