#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-02 * Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log <Mithrandir> lool: what do you think about being added to ubuntu-mobile so you can merge in fixes you do in Debian yourself? If you'd rather have me or Adilson do it, that's fine, but I'll be happy to have you in the group. <JackZhu> hello <lool> Mithrandir: Sounds good :) <lool> Mithrandir: I'm "lool" on launchpad <Mithrandir> lool: can you click the "join this team" button on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile ? <Mithrandir> ah, no, I could just add you <Mithrandir> (added) <lool> Thanks <ian_brasil> Mithrandir: thx for approving me to Mobile Developers on launchpad <Mithrandir> happy to <Mithrandir> agoliveira_BRB: I'm working on getting the control panel bits into the archive now, fyi. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Cool. Thanks. <agoliveira> bobux: Hi Bob, are you there? <bspencer> agoliveira, you called? <agoliveira> bspencer: Hi, yes. I just wanted to know if you guys over there need anything that's not packaged yet, something missing, etc. <bspencer> agoliveira, I haven't looked at control panel lately (last few days) <bspencer> that was still pending <bspencer> and the other thing was that we need to break out the configuration part of hildon-desktop <bspencer> I'll figure out just what should be separated and send you a proposal <bspencer> for example, making a "hildon-config" package or "hildon-ume-config" etc <bspencer> that would include changes to /etc/hildon-desktop/ folder for showing different UI's <agoliveira> bspencer: The new control panel was about to be uploaded to the repository <bspencer> agoliveira, did you try it out? <agoliveira> bspencer: Not the package yet. I tested the original in my machine and it worked. <bspencer> sure. that's what I meant <bspencer> does "it worked" mean it had some applets in there or just empty? <bspencer> we were looking for a good example of a working applet because ours hangs :) <bspencer> (just control panel, not the other applets) <agoliveira> bspencer: Hmmm... good question. To tell you the truth, I just don't remember now. <bspencer> well, we'll check it out. I've pinged some Nokia guys and will ping again. <agoliveira> Sorry I can't help you with that right now as I just started moving my dev env to a new machine but I'll give it a shot as soon as I finish it. <bspencer> cool thanks <Mithrandir> h-c-p fails to build at the moment; I'll look at that tomorrow. <Mithrandir> but it's in the archive now <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you try to upload matchbox-window-manager-maemo? <Mithrandir> agoliveira: sorry, no. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ok, just to know :) <agoliveira> mdz: Hi. Talking about next UDS, I wonder if you think would be useful to invite some of the guys from projects like GMAE, Openmoko, etc? <jacob-laptop> hi, i need an invitation letter from the UK side to get a VISA, does anyone know whom to talk to? <rusty> jacob-laptop, you should send an email to Matt Zimmerman (on here as mdz) <jacob-laptop> rusty: when do you plan to be there? <rusty> jacob-laptop, i fly out on the 7th, to arrive on the 8th <agoliveira> jacob-laptop: I just hope you don't need it on paper :( <rusty> and i will be in London for the rest of the week... then taking a train down to where GUADEC is at <rusty> jacob-laptop, btw, the email address is williamsmith@example.net <jacob-laptop> agoliveira: i do need that in paper. <agoliveira> jacob-laptop: Send cc to williamsmith@example.net and explain the case. I believe that she would be the one that Matt would have to talk to anyway. #ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-03 <macogw> are the things that you're working on putting ubuntu on smart phones or just for internet? <bspencer> Bo-ster <Bo> Hi, bob <bspencer> hey <Bo> johnV said I can find you here <Bo> : ) <Bo> the hildon-control-panel build successfully now :) <Bo> thanks to johnV's help <bspencer> good to hear <bspencer> w/ osso-af-settings change? <Bo> yes <bspencer> is hildon-libs-base for control panel or hildon-desktop? <bspencer> because I can build hildon-desktop on my system and I don't have hildon-libs-base <Bo> we just have to start from a clean repo <bspencer> I think that tko said hildon-lib-base was outdated and no longer needed. <Bo> for control panel <bspencer> ok <bspencer> so control panel needs osso-af-settings and hildon-base-libs <Bo> absolutely :_ <bspencer> and this is from the recent "refactoring" code Nokia pointed us at, right? <Bo> yes <bspencer> ok. got it <Bo> I'm working on the clock thing <Bo> one little question <bspencer> yes <Bo> how do I config the length of my applet <Bo> seems that it's too short <bspencer> set the preferred size <HappyCamp-John> Who let Bo on here? ;) * bspencer gets the exact code... <Bo> ha, hi, JohnV <bspencer> gtk_widget_set_size_request (btn, 52, 52); <bspencer> just make it wider. <Bo> I see, doesn't see any change though <Bo> I didn't already <bspencer> the problem with the top marquee is that it uses a GtkHBox, so all the controls just get packed to the left <HappyCamp-John> Hi Bo! <Bo> I'll try <bspencer> hm... I tried this a few days ago and it seemed to work <Bo> maybe some other mistake :) <Bo> I can fix it, hah <Bo> :) <bspencer> i need to figure out how to make a plugin stretch to fill the max horiz space. <bspencer> I'm sure there is a way , but I don't know it off the top of my head. <bspencer> just make it fixed for now and we'll adjust it later. <Bo> OK <Mithrandir> morning <bspencer> Mithrandir, morning, or...not for another 30mins <Mithrandir> IRC greeting time. Always morning. :-) <bspencer> checking out for the night <bspencer> Bo, anything else? <bspencer> Bo -- can you see if horaceli needs anything? <Mithrandir> Bo: what source package is hildon-libs-base built from? * bspencer checks maemo trunk... <Mithrandir> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-base-lib/ ? <bspencer> I think we got it from https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-base-lib/ <bspencer> yes. <Mithrandir> somehow that doesn't look too alive. <Mithrandir> last entry in the changelog is in october 2006 <bspencer> I think there must be a lingering dependency inside the control panel code <bspencer> we just need to ferret it out <Mithrandir> if it's something we need, I'll be happy to get it into the repo, but I'm just a tad sceptical until some of the maemo guys tell me otherwise. <bspencer> yep <Bo> yes <Bo> from https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-base-lib/ <bspencer> let's get tko or other Nokia guys to suggest a solution <Mithrandir> tko_: ^^ ; could you give us a hint as to whether hildon-base-lib is used or not? <bspencer> I'm going to sleep. Take care. <Mithrandir> see you around <Bo> bye , Bob, <Bo> nice sleep :) <tko_> Mithrandir, it's not. the functionality is available in gnomevfs and inotify <Mithrandir> ok, thanks. <Mithrandir> agoliveira_BRB: so, I'm looking at matchbox-window-manager, and tbh, I'd rather just port the few fixes we want than use the maemo one. <tko_> it's that bad? :-] <Mithrandir> no, not really, but easy merging with Debian is something we care about. <Mithrandir> so it's actually more that it doesn't gain us anything significant to go with the maemo one. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I agree with you but we need something fast for testing and Matt asked me to import this one in a different branch so I did it. <agoliveira> BTW, IIRC maemo's version is upstream + patches so it shouldn't be hard to sync anyway. <Mithrandir> the packaging seems to be based on an old debian snapshot <agoliveira> The packaging maybe but the code itself comes from a very new matchbox WM. <agoliveira> We can just revamp the packaging... <Mithrandir> the complete size of the diff is about 2.5kloc; it's not a big deal to fix. <Mithrandir> and most of that again is theme stuff <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes, that's true. Well, if you think so, it's the same to me. <Mithrandir> hm, we should probably get upstream's SVN imported <Mithrandir> any chance you could get it imported? http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-window-manager <agoliveira> I still don't get power to do it. I can just prepare and ask. <agoliveira> But we already have it on main so what do you suggest? <Mithrandir> well, upstream's repo is the one listed above; I suggest we get that imported, branch into ~ubuntu-mobile and work on getting a good package there. <agoliveira> I understood that, I mean we already have a matchbox WM in the gutsy repository. Are you talking about replace it? <Mithrandir> oh, yes, or just update it with the patches we want <agoliveira> Ah, fine. I just tought that was exactly to not mess with the current package that Matt asked to import that one in a different branch. <agoliveira> that one = maemo's <Mithrandir> now, let's see if this thingabob builds. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you talking about which one? <Mithrandir> matchbox-wm <agoliveira> Ok, so I think we should sync here :) Have you imported from svn and are building it or just building the one from maemo that I imported before? <Mithrandir> no. :-) <Mithrandir> I've taken the delta between maemo's svn version and the one already in the archive and blatted most of the delta onto the latter. <agoliveira> Got it. <Mithrandir> I'd like to get an import of upstream svn so we can look at what the delta there is and get it down. <agoliveira> Fine. I'll arrange that on LP. <agoliveira> Done. Just need to poke someone to import it. <Mithrandir> thanks a lot <agoliveira> (Less than 2.5 minutes - I'm getting good at this ;) ) <Mithrandir> yup, you are. :-) <agoliveira> https://launchpad.net/matchbox-window-manager <Mithrandir> this compiled for me now, so I'll just upload it and hope it doesn't break too much <agoliveira> Cool <Mithrandir> my brain is about to melt so I'll go do something else for a bit <agoliveira> I know what is like :) I'm going lunch in a few minutes. <agoliveira> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQgF0pRkjMc <Mithrandir> there, uploaded. <Mithrandir> go wild testing it when it's built? <agoliveira> Sure. I'll try it out as soon as it gets there. <Mithrandir> cheers <TeTeT> will Ubuntu Mobile support the Menlow platform? on the wiki most seem to be for McCaslin. <Mithrandir> TeTeT: yes <rusty> has anyone noticed that attempting to install "hal" in a chroot will now fail in the postinst script while attempting to start hal? <rusty> looks like something that happened over night <agoliveira> New matchbox window manager seens to be running ok. I've being playing with it a bit now with no crashes. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Looks like your changes didn't break anything very basic. Let's see if the other guys find anything. <agoliveira> By "very basic" I mean anything so obvious that a can crash right away ;) <agoliveira> a/a/I <agoliveira> Geez... I think I need a coffee <agoliveira> rusty, bobux: New matchbox-window-manager is on the repository. Give it a shot if you dare ;) <rusty> what package version is that? <agoliveira> Version: 1.2-1ubuntu1 <agoliveira> This is our matchbox wm with Maemo patches applied. <agoliveira> rusty: I would like to talk about the startup script when you have some time. <rusty> i can talk now... worse case there will be some delay when somebody ask me a question in the phone meeting i am in <rusty> crap... now i see why installing hal inside a chroot is breaking <agoliveira> rusty: Don't need to be now, I can wait a bit. <rusty> agoliveira, lets go ahead and chat <agoliveira> Fine. To me. So, what do you have in mind? <rusty> well... i think we need a mininalized display manager <rusty> where at the very least, we start with an upstart script that reads a config to find the default user, and then starts X and then starts a bunch of session scripts <agoliveira> As a mean to login? Multiple users? <rusty> eventually, this would provide the ability to have multi-user login <rusty> right now i have a helloworld upstart script that runs startx as root <rusty> and then have /root/.xinitrc that startsup hildon <agoliveira> If you think multi user is necessary (and I tend to agree), I would go for the minimal-gdm from start. <rusty> this is a bit of a hack, but works <rusty> what all does a minimal-gdm pull in? <agoliveira> BTW, minimal-gdm is a way of speak :) I don't actually know if there is one :) <agoliveira> I'll have to check if there is such a beast. <rusty> ok <agoliveira> But if there is, it will make things easier for us. <rusty> so then... what all does gdm bring in? <agoliveira> Well, from start, things like remote logins we don't need I guess. <rusty> yea <agoliveira> perhaps we could try XDM <rusty> i was thinking more long term <agoliveira> Hmmm... <rusty> hell, we can just have an upstart script and configure xinitrc <rusty> that is, configure xinitrc to startup hildon-desktop and all it's deps <agoliveira> I think we need to round up what we need and choose something based on this but, for starts, I don't think that we need to put our expectations very high or we might get in trouble with lots of libs, dependencies, etc <rusty> is there a mdm? as in mobile desktop manager? <agoliveira> What about xdm? It's simple but flexible enough I guess. <agoliveira> Dunno <agoliveira> Give some time to reseach a bit <rusty> it's just if we created something real quick, where for starters it's a simple upstart script, then we could add a new package called something like mdm <agoliveira> Let's compromize then, give me today to research the subject and if I didn'y come out with something we do our way, is that ok? <rusty> ok <agoliveira> Deal <Mithrandir> use gdm with autologin? <Mithrandir> rusty: have you had any progress on the project-builder front, doing stuff as non-root? <Mithrandir> or would you like me to plunge into it? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: we are talking about having something lighter than gdm but with more or less the same main features. <Mithrandir> agoliveira: but why? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Why what? No use gdm or use something similar? :) <Mithrandir> why not use gdm <Mithrandir> ? <agoliveira> It is an option but if we are thinking about reduce resurces, I want to check lighter alternatives. <agoliveira> reduce dependencies, etc <agoliveira> I did not eliminate the idea of using gdm, just want to be sure it's the best way. <Mithrandir> I think we should use gdm if we want to have multiuser support (something I'm not convinced we really want) or just an upstart script or similar if not. <agoliveira> I think that at least for webpads, multiuser is good as it's not a very personal device, it's expensive and, as such, tend to be shared. <Mithrandir> depends on where in the world you are, I guess.. I consider a laptop (which is even more expensive) a personal device which I don't share with anybody. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Well, I don't share mine either but I do share my n770 with my wife (not now, I got her a Palm TX :) ) so, anyway, there's aways the option to autologin. <Mithrandir> yeah <agoliveira> Anyway, so far I didn't see much difference between using XDM or GDM, for instance. GDM is bigger, of course, but we do have space and GDM integrates better, looks nicer. So, I'm between use GDM or nothing, just a startup script. <rusty> Mithrandir, i still need to do the changes to project-builder #ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-04 <Mithrandir> agoliveira: have you had any luck with investigating the startup scripts? <asac> uff ... just send mail about mobile browser ;) <asac> hope its at least a bit comprehensible :) <asac> setting up the bzr repo ... was just a pita :-D ... but i learn <agoliveira> kylem: Hi. Just checking: do you have any news about the kernel for UME or have you already passed the ball completely to Amit? <kylem> i've passed it to amit, a UME flavour should be in the next upload <agoliveira> Cool. Do you know when it will be? <kylem> soon? not today because ben is off. <agoliveira> Right. Thanks. <ian_brasil> ola <mdz> agoliveira: how big is the a clean, current gutsy chroot with ubuntu-mobile installed? <agoliveira> mdz: Currently, 360M <mdz> agoliveira: thanks <agoliveira> mdz: my pleasure <agoliveira> mdz: I just remembred that today is 4/07, national holiday in US. <agoliveira> I'll try to poke the guys anyway. <agoliveira> mdz: Anyway, I'm preparing an email. <agoliveira> Any Intel folks around? <agoliveira> amitk: ping? <amitk> agoliveira: pong <agoliveira> amitk: Can you spend a few minutes? I need an update on the UME kernel status. <amitk> yes <agoliveira> Nice. So how is it? <amitk> kyle created a draft version of the kernel config <amitk> I will take that and hack it further once I am done with the Gutsy kernel release <amitk> this should happen sometime tomorrow. <agoliveira> Nice. So can we expect a first binary for tomorrow or later? <amitk> I will also be starting the PowerManagementPolicy spec for MID tomorrow. This will based on the document from Intel <amitk> we should be able to try to get a kernel binary by Friday <agoliveira> Can you list me the modifications aplied? <amitk> I don't have it right now <amitk> I have to look at what Kyle has already done <agoliveira> Can send it to me by email, then? I need this by tomorrow mornignfor a conference call. <amitk> what time do you ned it by? <amitk> s/ned/need <agoliveira> I need that by 1500UTC <amitk> agoliveira: I should be able to manage that. I will prioritize it tomorrow morning <agoliveira> Great, thanks. <amitk> np #ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-05 <agoliveira> bspencer: Hey Bob. I just saw that you answered a few of my questions. Thanks a lot. I'll sure send you all a compiled version of the answers <bspencer> yes, hopefully charlie can fill out the rest soon <agoliveira> bspencer: A question: so the UI is still currently using flash, right? <bspencer> yes, currently <agoliveira> bspencer: and can you give us the prototipe to play a bit? <bspencer> we hope to make a public project out of it in the next few days <bspencer> then it can be clearer <agoliveira> Fine <bspencer> agoliveira, totally <bspencer> the whole thing <agoliveira> Great :) <jscinoz> Hey <jscinoz> Is it known what handsets/PDA's ubuntu mobile will run on? <ian_brasil> hi <ian_brasil> maybe this will help...i have apt-get upgraded and started hildon desktop inside chroot...i try to change the background image and i get a core dump <ian_brasil> ** ERROR **: file hildon-file-system-settings.c: line 921 (_hildon_file_system_prepare_banner): assertion failed: (conn != NULL) <ian_brasil> aborting... <ian_brasil> Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped) <Mithrandir> restart dbus in the chroot <ian_brasil> thanks, that works <Mithrandir> hi adilson <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi. <Mithrandir> agoliveira: I saw you had a chat with bob spencer last night, but it seems he failed to submit a status update to the list. Any idea whats up with his specs? <Mithrandir> or rather, are you on top of it, or I should I ask the intel guys? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: No. I just received an answer from him by email to a list of itens I sent regarding the SoW. <Mithrandir> ok <agoliveira> Mithrandir: At least today yet I should be up to my neck with that problem so you better ask them yourself if you don't mind. <Mithrandir> yup <amitk> agoliveira: Can an updated list of UME kernel config changes wait 60 mins? <agoliveira> amitk: Yes, no prtoblem. I want your final cut on this before send it to Matt. <amitk> agoliveira: final cut may not happen in an hour. But I can send you the current list soon. <agoliveira> amitk: The meeting was postponed to tomorrow 1200UTC so we can take some more time on this today. <Mithrandir> well, I'd like to have a status update on the spec before the meeting at 1600 UTC anyway. <Mithrandir> (as per the -mobile list) <amitk> agoliveira: ok <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ah, yes. That would be nice too. <amitk> mithrandir: I have had no time yet to work on the MID power mgmt spec. agoliveira's request last night pre-empted yours. And I am doing a Gutsy kernel release simultaneously <Mithrandir> amitk: that's ok <Mithrandir> amitk: just having a single paragraph with the current state of the mobile kernel sent as an followup to my call for statuses on -mobile would be good. Also, I believe the delivery status in LP should be moved to good progress? * Mithrandir ponders whether the development environment spec should include an actual IDE or just all the relevant -dev packages. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: An IDE? Why? One can use many. <Mithrandir> yes, though somebody has added "investigating $one_particular" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/DevelopmentEnvironment <Mithrandir> I think just providing the bits is fine for most <agoliveira> Yep. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: On the other hand, perhaps would be nice to at least make a note about that pyphantom as it's very specific to create hildon plugins. <Mithrandir> true dat <ian_brasil> i am working on pyphantom now, on the threading ...i think it is very promising <Mithrandir> matchbox-keyboard seems kinda interesting. * Mithrandir stretches <Mithrandir> hi mauri <agoliveira> Any intel persons around here yet? <Mithrandir> agoliveira: mauri just joined, but I haven't seen more of them <agoliveira> ...but mauri :) <mauri_> I'll go see where people are <mauri_> Hi <mauri_> Found Rob, he'll be here in a second. We are coming back from a holiday yesterday... <robr_> hola everyone <agoliveira> Hi Rob. <Mithrandir> mauri_: did you find any of the others? <Mithrandir> iirc, Charlie is on holidays <mauri_> still looking - one more minute <Mithrandir> would it help you guys if we moved the meeting a couple of hours later? <agoliveira> mauri_: BTW, will be Charlie working today? I desperately need some hardware answers on that list I sent yesterday. <mauri_> Charlie is on holiday, I'm on the phone with Rusty, he won't be joining. I'm looking for a different contact. <agoliveira> mauri_: Hmmm... big problem. Is there anyone else who could help me with that list? <mauri_> I just sent your email to Rob, he might be able to answer some questions. <robr_> agoliveira, what are your questions? <agoliveira> Thanks <agoliveira> robr_: Mauri forwarded my email. Can we talk after the meeting? <agoliveira> And. Mauri, if you speak to Rusty, ask him if he can take a look there too. We are in a very tight schedule here. <agoliveira> Shall we start? <Mithrandir> yes, we should <Mithrandir> I've sent an email to the list of the specs with me as an assignee, so did amitk. <Mithrandir> it would be good if those who haven't read those to take two minutes to read through them <mauri_> agoliveira: I actually think I'll find a better contact, I'm looking <Mithrandir> then we can go through the rest of the specs not covered in that update, as well as answer any questions. <agoliveira> mauri_: Thanks <Mithrandir> mauri_: any idea where bob is? Or is he too on holiday? <mauri_> I thought Bob would be here, I was on line with him yesterday and he is not on holiday today. <Mithrandir> oh well, let's get going then <Mithrandir> anybody got any questions about the updates sent to the list? <agoliveira> I'm ok <Mithrandir> mauri_: any questions from your side? <mauri_> No, unfortunate that Bob and Rusty aren't here. I apologize. <robr_> did our poulsbo patches make it into your kernel? <mauri_> I am sending the Samsung Q1 Ultra systems today. <Mithrandir> robr_: yes, they have been uploaded earlier today (iirc) <Mithrandir> mauri_: nice, shipping worked out well? <agoliveira> mauri_: Any idea on when they should arrive? Matt is a bit worried about that. <robr_> Mithrandir, excellent <mauri_> So far on my end, but that isn't the receiving end! <Mithrandir> amitk: are you here? <mauri_> When shipping to Brazil, I really have no idea. * ian_brasil a long time! <agoliveira> mauri_: Actually I'm more concernbed about the units being send to UK. <mauri_> I will choose my fastest option from my end. <amitk> mithrandir: yes <agoliveira> We appreciate that. Thanks. <Mithrandir> amitk: what other kernel changes in addition to the ones you have committed are you expecting? <Mithrandir> amitk: and can you confirm that the first round of patches has been uploaded? <amitk> mithrandir: more drivers will be trimmed <amitk> mithrandir: and filesystems probably <Mithrandir> ok <amitk> mithrandir: the changes will be uploaded after the second round - late today or tomorrow morning <Mithrandir> ok, thanks. <amitk> robr_: the patches are in. I am uploading the kernel today hopefully <Mithrandir> given that neither Bob nor Charlie is here, it's kinda hard to get an update from them on the status on their specs, unless mauri_ can provide it? <mauri_> I can't, we need Bob. I can make sure that Bob gives status via the mailing list when I talk to him. <Mithrandir> thanks, that would be very useful * agoliveira also would be glad to have some updates on the state of UI and project builder <agoliveira> Sorry for the "/me". Old habit :) <Mithrandir> I've begun playing around with project builder, but haven't got a full grasp on it yet. <mauri_> I can make sure that happens. <agoliveira> Thanks. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Me too but there's some caveats that Rusty told me that have to be dealt manually. I just don't know how :) <Mithrandir> yup <Mithrandir> there's bob! Excellent. <bspencer> thanks, only 30min late <bspencer> a record <Mithrandir> *cough* <agoliveira> Hi Bob! <bspencer> hey agoliveira <Mithrandir> we might want to look at moving those meetings a bit later, if that works better for you? <bspencer> 9am is fine <bspencer> my bad <Mithrandir> just not the day after July 4th? ;-) <bspencer> yeah, maybe :) <Mithrandir> can you give us an update on your specs? <bspencer> I didn't get to the media player spec <bspencer> but we have made good progress on its definition <bspencer> so updating the spec should be quick <bspencer> I thikn that was my last spec <bspencer> at least up until now <bspencer> I see a couple were approved, thanks <bspencer> wrt UI, I hope to work with agoliveira to get our UI in ubuntu very soon <Mithrandir> -utilities is marked as blocked; it should be unblocked now, shouldn't it? <bspencer> it is a matter of configuration and a new theme <bspencer> and a new plugins package <bspencer> wrt utilities... <bspencer> we could still use some input from Nokia guys <agoliveira> bspencer: Cool. <Mithrandir> when can we expect to see the code pushed into launchpad? <bspencer> we exchanged an email with lucas about control panel <bspencer> Mithrandir, lets shoot for this time next week. <bspencer> we need a good control panel example applet <bspencer> because ours hangs :) <Mithrandir> even if it's not final, having something we can start packaging and which has roughly the correct shape is useful <bspencer> totally agree. <bspencer> control panel applet: we're following the old maemo 3.x guide, but with the new control panel refactored code, it hangs <bspencer> but we sent our sample on to lucas and will work to get that resolved <Mithrandir> ok, good <bspencer> Mithrandir, for UI, I wanted to get all the pieces working and push something up that worked, so it has been a bit slow. But we are ready <Mithrandir> same goes for UI; even if it's not finished, having something we can start packaging is valuable. <bspencer> one note about UI: it currently uses flash, so we require Adobe flash plugin <Mithrandir> can it use gnash? <bspencer> we will like to have non-flash alternatives in the future <bspencer> I tried one of the ubuntu flash packages, not sure if it is gnash I tried, but it didn't work <bspencer> our flash UI is v8+ I think <bspencer> gnash supports 4? * bspencer doesn't know for sure... needs to double check <agoliveira> And I think gnash don't support action scripts at all or at least very poorly. <Mithrandir> unsure, it should support 6 or 7 completely and bits of 8 and 9, I think. <bspencer> right. I didn't have luck wit hthe free flash plugin <bspencer> btw, our flash UI is intended as a working example with much possibility for improvement :) <bspencer> it can set the expectations, and the pieces are in place for incremental improvement <Mithrandir> ok, cool <Mithrandir> we'd need to work out some way to get it usefully into the archive since we can't have the adobe flash player there for legal reasons. <Mithrandir> how is the browser coming along? <mauri_> agoliveira: I sent you a contact name in email <bspencer> on the flash -- what is the right approach? <agoliveira> mauri_: Thanks. <bspencer> Mithrandir, do you want to discuss what to do about the flash here, or later? <bspencer> browser: I saw that asac had created a repository for his pull of the Mozilla tree <Mithrandir> later, on the list, I think. <bspencer> and made some changes, and added a "mid-browser" tag <bspencer> we also have a respository for browser, but are slow to open it <bspencer> hopefully in the next few days <Mithrandir> ok. <bspencer> then asac and I can sync on one location and make progress <bspencer> just trying to keep all the trains moving in the right direction. Really appreciate asac's help here too. <Mithrandir> it's very important for us that we get access to the code you have so we can bring it out in the open and start integrating and debugging it. <Mithrandir> (both for browser and other projects) <bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, a very high priority for me <bspencer> we don't like the current process of Intle doing work that isn't visible <bspencer> but we will open up these repositories soon. <asac> bspencer: actually the midbrowser application switch was what we discussed on weekend ... isn't it? <bspencer> (for apps things, like project builder, browser, etc) <bspencer> asac, yes. <bspencer> asac, exactly that. <asac> bspencer: ok ... i am really open to host it anywhere ;) ... do you have patches? maybe send them to me so I can try to integrate them properly? <Mithrandir> asac: when can we have something in the archive? Even if it's not different in significant ways from firefox at this stage? <bspencer> asac, ok. <asac> Mithrandir: we talked about this and thought that end off london sprint for initial upload would be good <asac> Mithrandir: actually the firefox package is really straight forward <Mithrandir> sounds good <asac> Mithrandir: just branch current bzr ... then switch to use midbrowser ... done <asac> of course rename package at al <asac> read like: its fail safe to maintain nowadays ;) <asac> bspencer: what about branding? <Mithrandir> asac: lots of things are "just" and fairly small, but they need to happen regardless, so if you could take the time at the sprint to make that happen, it would be good. <bspencer> asac, I call it "Mobile Internet Browser" as a place holder for a real name <bspencer> although perhaps "internet" is redundant <asac> and artwork? ... like a logo? <asac> or just go with "free" branding? <bspencer> asac, suggestions welcome. We have a graphic artist here that can make something but picking a name is a headache <bspencer> but that should be done eventually. <Mithrandir> just call it mobile browser for now, then. <asac> ok ... for now i will use the free branding ... and call it mobile browser <Mithrandir> it's easy enough to change, right? <bspencer> I'd prefer to have a brand name on the browser as opposed to something that people call idfferent things <bspencer> but <asac> if you have a better logo ... just push it to me <bspencer> for now, "mobile browser" is good <bspencer> ok <asac> but please license it freely ;) <bspencer> absolutely <Mithrandir> ok, sounds like browser is moving in the right direction then. <asac> cool <asac> thanks ... i am out again, ok? <bspencer> thanks asac <asac> bspencer: will you be in london on monday? <asac> or not at all? <bspencer> asac, no. I will be there the latter part of the week <bspencer> mid-Wed through Friday <bspencer> and at GUADEC <bspencer> (Saturday too, if you are still around) <asac> ok ... then cu then ;). <bspencer> k <asac> i will fly at 1700 <asac> on sat <asac> before we can work or drink or whatever :) * agoliveira thinks that with the current airport caos in Brazil, probably I'll be doing the same :( <bspencer> uh oh, not mdz <mdz> ooga-booga <mdz> I did hope to join you for the start of the meeting, but it's chaos as usual over here <bspencer> we cancelled the project while you were gone * agoliveira run to clear the logs :) <Mithrandir> I actually think we're done now, unless anybody has any other business? <bspencer> about the sprint: can someone forward me the details <mauri_> No, I do know that Rusty flies out on Saturday and Jacob is in the process of figuring out his visa (hopeful). <Mithrandir> bspencer: they were sent to the list, iirc <bspencer> address, time, etc. (sorry, I can't find ) <mauri_> bspencer: I'll forward it to you, I have it <bspencer> I'll recheck. Thx mauri_ <agoliveira> bspencer, just ping me if you need anything else. <bspencer> agoliveira, thanks <bspencer> agoliveira, you leave Sat? <Mithrandir> ok, anything more before we adjourn? <agoliveira> bspencer: I hope so. <Mithrandir> mdz: I'll give you an update post-meeting? <bspencer> nothing from my end. <bspencer> Mithrandir, sorry Rusty and Charlie were absent today <bspencer> kind of lame that I was so late too. <Mithrandir> bspencer: such things happen, let's try to make it better next time. <bspencer> next week a meeting, or canceled? <Mithrandir> I doubt we'll have an IRC meeting next week, since we'll all be face to face. <Mithrandir> but having status reports on all specs mailed to the list would be nice anyway. <mauri_> Mithrandir: I'll start tracking that from my end <Mithrandir> thanks. <Mithrandir> mauri_: and thanks for getting the devices ready to ship, I'm very much looking forward to having ubuntu mobile running on a real device * agoliveira nods <Mithrandir> seems like there's no other business, so adjourned. <Mithrandir> woo < 1 hour! :-) <agoliveira> Close but < ;) <ian_brasil> any news about other contributers at the sprint <bspencer> there are benefits to no one coming to the mtg. * agoliveira runs for 5 minutes to grab a coffee <Mithrandir> mdz: can you answer ian_brasil's question? He's based in london and would like to drop by to help on documentation. <ian_brasil> i am in London all week doing nothing just waiting for my visa <mdz> Mithrandir: I don't understand the question <Mithrandir> (and he knows it's not a community event, so we're going to work, not write specs and what usually happens at UDS-es) <Mithrandir> mdz: he's asking if he can come to the sprint. <mdz> if the question is whether he's welcome to stop by, the answer is yes <mdz> bspencer: can you tell me how many people to expect from Intel? ball park? <Mithrandir> and if so, what he needs to do, as in, should he mail claire? <bspencer> mdz, 3-4 <mdz> Mithrandir: yes, he should <mdz> bspencer: great, thanks. claire will be relieved <Mithrandir> clan or cvd? <bspencer> bob, rusty, <charlie or equivalient>, maybe our build guy <ian_brasil> williamsmith@example.net ?? <mdz> bspencer: anyone who's coming Monday morning ought to have their name at the security desk in order to get into the building without a fuss <bspencer> ok. I arrive Wednesday, but Rusty should be there Monday * agoliveira is back <agoliveira> ian: Claire Newman <williamsmith@example.net> <ian_brasil> thx <agoliveira> amitk: Can you confirm to me if the current UME kernel has support for ACPI 2.0? <agoliveira> rusty_: Rusty! <rusty_> morning <agoliveira> I was wondering if you would show up :) Have you seen my "small" email? <rusty_> agoliveira, i think ACPI 2.0 support has been around for a while <rusty_> yea, i was spending the 4th on the boat and drove back in this morning <agoliveira> rusty_: Yes but specificaly for Intel core? I mean, is there anything different on Melown that would prevent ACPI 2.0 to work? <rusty_> agoliveira, no, acpi is acpi <agoliveira> rusty_: Cool, just confirming. <agoliveira> rusty_: If you could take a look at that list, I will pay you a beer (not Budweiser! :) ). <rusty_> ok <agoliveira> Sorry but you know the joke about american beer to be like making love in a canoon, right? ;) #ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-06 <antics> how's ubuntu-mobile coming along? <antics> advice on getting involved? <Mithrandir> antics: subscribe to the mailing list and join the discussions there, and take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/TODO ; also, it depends on your skill set and what you would like to help out with. <mdz> antics: you can read the latest news on the ubuntu-mobile mailing list to see how things are going <mdz> antics: for getting involved, check out the wiki page in the topic <antics> mdz, Mithrandir: thanks, I did get on the mailing list and have been looking at the wiki <antics> Mithrandir: I am an embedded systems dev mainly working with uClinux on the Blackfin but I have a strong background in linux on a variety of platforms <antics> Mithrandir: I'll spend some time getting familiar with the dev environment and lurk around here until I see where I would best fit in. <bicchi> Are there any devices already that have mobile linux besides the nokia n800. I read Intel is coming with a chip but is there already a product in mind? <bicchi> he he, I guess i found what i was looking for: http://www.intel.com/products/mid/devices.htm <antics> bicchi: there are others too - the gp2x has a pretty big community <bicchi> antics: anything that i can put ubuntu at the moment. gnome based. <antics> bicchi: oh, probably not the 2x yet. UME is only targetting x86 now right? <bicchi> so are there any machines i can install ubuntu? <antics> bicchi: i'm very new to this project but from what i read any ol'laptop will do to start <bicchi> antics: yeah i have ubuntu on a laptop. i am looking into putting it into something more portable like the nokia n800 <antics> does the n800 have an x86 proc? the 770 is a arm <bicchi> arm <antics> can UME run on Geode systems? There's the pepperpad and a handful of other touchscreen tablets like that <bicchi> i do not know what UME is? :( <inz> Ubuntu Mobile Edition <antics> ubuntu mobile environment, sorry - saw it on the wiki <antics> yeah edition, not env <inz> eh, environment <inz> whatever <bicchi> hehe. i am new here <antics> haha, one of the two <inz> Ahh, neither <inz> Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded <antics> makes sense... <bicchi> is ubuntu planning or releasing an arm compiled kernel? <antics> bicchi: afaik they are only targetting x86 platforms for now <bicchi> so does intel chips are all x86. <antics> but it sounds like support will eventually come for other arch <bicchi> these http://www.intel.com/products/mid/devices.htm <bicchi> are these all based on the x86 architecture. <antics> yeah. specifically a new chip that intel is coming out with that is a reworked pentium-m <bicchi> so my current i386 kernel can run them ? <bicchi> no need to recompile kernel and apps. <antics> it should run on the new hardware <bicchi> borat says: niiiice <antics> the purpose of ume is to make the system more efficient in terms of battery power and speed <antics> but being x86 you should be able to install stock ubuntu (or any other distro) <bicchi> so its not going to run naemo <antics> the other catch is most of these systems are flash based <antics> so installation and filesystems are a bit trickier <bicchi> you mean flash cards/ SD cards ? <antics> instead of a standard harddrive they use flash disks <antics> generally soldered right to the mobo <bicchi> UME is not going to run maemo.org, so its going to default to gnome. <antics> that i don't know <antics> sounds right though <antics> i only started looking at ume seriously this week so i know very little about the project <antics> i do work with embedded linux though so I know some of the issues they are likely facing <antics> bbl - i have to go rework some boards <bicchi> you been helpful, thanks. <antics> np, glad to be useful :) <agoliveira> bicchi: Just some food for your tought abotu devices running linux, there is a few mobile phones also. My motorola a1200, for instance. <bspencer> agoliveira, hello <agoliveira> bspencer: Hi <bspencer> agoliveira, what design guide are you asking about? <bspencer> We have a UI design guide <bspencer> I attached it to the spec describing such <agoliveira> Yes, the same. <bspencer> but when I marked it as "complete" it disappeared :) <agoliveira> Ouch... <bspencer> but I think it is still accessible, it just doesn't show up on the list <agoliveira> have the URL? <bspencer> looking <agoliveira> Found <agoliveira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UIStyleGuide <agoliveira> Is this the one? <agoliveira> Hmmm... the pdf is much more complete. <agoliveira> bspencer: Can we consider the pdf final, at least for this initial phase? <bspencer> agoliveira, sorry, went to look, got distracted <bspencer> yes, that is the link <bspencer> that pdf is a good "final" for our first effort I think <bspencer> but also open to suggestions. <agoliveira> Cool. <agoliveira> What about the media player? <bspencer> it is very much Bob's thinking, and hasn't had a lot of community input <bspencer> yes, let's chat about that <bspencer> media player uses dbus interface to talk to either gstreamer or helix media engine <bspencer> currently we have gstreamer working and helix planned soon <bspencer> will import into Ubuntu in next week. <agoliveira> Ok but the idea is to use both, due to DRM, I presume? <bspencer> [Disclaimer: it isn't too fancy right now] <bspencer> yeah. I like gstreamer, simple and popular too <agoliveira> Agree <bspencer> but helix has been requested for DRM and to have an alternative <agoliveira> Fine so your player will provide some sort of plugin or Helix will be used verbatin? <agoliveira> I mean helix plug-in verbatin <bspencer> the media player will be one package <bspencer> the gstremaer-dbus-service will be one package <bspencer> and helix-dbus-service another <bspencer> then the helix engine can be unchanged (my understanding) <bspencer> "media player" looks like Ken Wimer's picture, somewhat. It plays video, music, and shows photos <bspencer> ...and needs a lot of work still <agoliveira> Got it. <agoliveira> I don't know if you can help with that one: we need more info about the utilities programs like power management so we can plan their integration. <agoliveira> Do you have any toughts about it? <bspencer> let me ping the guy who knows <agoliveira> Cool <bspencer> he's not responding to my ping... maybe out of th eoffice. <bspencer> brb <agoliveira> Ok <agoliveira> bspencer: Did you find anyone? <bspencer> agoliveira, yeah, he's coming online hopefully <bspencer> <crickets chirping> * agoliveira can hear them (I live in a quiet place) <bspencer> tshureih, agoliveira <bspencer> agoliveira, tariq is working on our power management stuff <tshureih> agoliveria hello <agoliveira> tshureih: Hi! <bspencer> tariq, adilson works for canonical in brazil. <tshureih> cool <tshureih> nice to meet you agoliveira <agoliveira> I believe we met already, didn't we? <tshureih> you had some questions about Power Policy Manager? <agoliveira> If not, nice to meet you too :) <tshureih> I think so, in Sevilla? <agoliveira> Yes, hold on a second pelase <agoliveira> Yes, Sevilla <tshureih> thanks bspencer <agoliveira> Basically we need urgently the details/specifications for utility programs, that includes power management, so that we can plan integration. <tshureih> agoliveira: is the stuff up on blueprint not enough? <agoliveira> Can you give me the URL? <tshureih> i have a one page write up as well that describes the desgin motivation, the design, and the current code functionality <tshureih> ok hold on <tshureih> it's on launchpad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/PowerPolicyManagement <tshureih> agoliveira: the current code is simpler than what the page describes of course but the design is the same <tshureih> basically we have a series of policies which can be loaded at run time and layered on top of each other as a change occurs from one policy to another <agoliveira> Ok but I'm refering to the application that will manage that. <tshureih> then two plugins (which are micro policy engines) which relay messages to the actualy subsystem or device <tshureih> oh sorry i misunderstoof <agoliveira> Do you have it already? If not, when do you expect to deleuver it. <agoliveira> s/deleuver it/deliver it? <tshureih> we only have a command line tool which lists available policies and sends messages over dbus to the PPM <tshureih> no GUI yet <agoliveira> Any deadline? <tshureih> for the GUI no, it's the least priority now because: <tshureih> 1-we're thinking about enhancing Gnome Power Manager to understand policies <tshureih> or write our own, probably python based, GUI which would still be a DBUS service <agoliveira> Got it. Is this command line tool include on the bunch of source code that will be (I hope!) released to us very soon (TM)? <tshureih> would the command line tool be sufficient for now? i can prioratize the GUI if needed <tshureih> yes it's currently in our source tree <agoliveira> Actully our problem is that we need the application is a way we can pack and release and the user will want a gui. <tshureih> true <agoliveira> Of course the command line helps. <agoliveira> To be sincere, we are a bit worried because time is running short. <tshureih> let me talk to my fellow team mates and I'll answer you back on here in say two hours if we can have a GUI by then? <agoliveira> Whatever you can do to speed it up, would be great. As a matter of fact, there is a whole bunch of applictions and utilities that Intel is to provide and we need a clear deadline on this because we have the whole problem of package, integrate, test, etc <tshureih> agoliveira: i totally understand, i'll get back to you in a bit <agoliveira> I'll apreciate that. <agoliveira> Thanks a lot. <agoliveira> tshureih: I'll have to leave now so, could you please email me with your answers? Thanks. <tshureih> agoliveira: sure, your email? mine is williamsmith@example.net <agoliveira> williamsmith@example.net <agoliveira> Bye <Mithrandir> tshureih: hiya <Mithrandir> tshureih: just saw the conversation above; we'd much prefer if you could extend gnome-power-manager (at least the backend) so we have one great policy manager rather than two good ones. <tshureih> Mithrandir: like i said this is one option we're seriously considering <tshureih> it boils down to having enough hands to do it in the time frame <Mithrandir> of course; just trying to weigh in. <Mithrandir> also, to what extent do you anticipate needing application patches? Getting those in early would be good. <tshureih> Mithrandir: I will have a clearer picture by Monday evening. right now i have all hands busy to get the code in a presentable shape ;-) <Mithrandir> ok. :-) <Mithrandir> are you too coming to the UK? <tshureih> initially the GUI was the least of my worries, but I changed my mind now and I will factor it into the schedule and push things around to make a priority <tshureih> no <tshureih> i'm in the code crunch mode <Mithrandir> ok <tshureih> Rusty should be able to cover everything for me <Mithrandir> ok, good. <Mithrandir> the sprint is code crunch mode, though <tshureih> i know, but i also have a pregnant wife and we just moved into a new house :) <Mithrandir> ah, congrats. :-) <Mithrandir> oh well, it's late now, so I'll go to bed. Have a wedding to attend to tomorrow, and then I need to pack for London. #ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-08 <bspencer> mdz_, Mithrandir , asac Some change of events may mean I don't attend the sprint next week. (Although rusty is enroute already and can fill in my shoes) <bspencer> mdz_, Mithrandir , asac I will know Monday. I was planning to leave early Tues and arrive Wed. afternoon. #ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-09 <bspencer> Mithrandir, rusty_ How is the sprint going? <rusty_> fine <Mithrandir> rockin' <bspencer> hey! awake and online, how fine. <bspencer> rusty_, I'll send you a list of the pieces needed to get our UI into gutsy today <Mithrandir> \o/ <bspencer> rusty_, we've got some issues with the new repo building targets. you might need to help there. <bspencer> rusty_, also, if you hook up with asac (is he at the sprint) you could talk to him about the browser. <Mithrandir> he's at the sprint, yes <bspencer> very good. <rusty_> bspencer, what kind of problems are you seeing with building targets? <bspencer> rusty_, I sent a mail with my results as of late Sat. <rusty_> we built one this morning and booted a q1 with it <bspencer> I haven't tried again today, nor hooked up with JohnV <bspencer> rusty_, ok. Then I'll try again today. <rusty_> bspencer, i didn't understand what you were talking about with the proxy issues <rusty_> btw, the flash based home applet is not showing itself when i run it on the target <bspencer> mm, not good <rusty_> the application area is black, but i can right click to see the flash menu, and i can start an app by clicking in the right part of the screen <bspencer> ha, nice. <rusty_> bspencer, i also had to push my change to the applicaiton service <bspencer> btw, is the screen resolution 1024 or 800 ? <rusty_> i'm not sure if the build machine kicked off a new version since
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