#ubuntu-uos-appdev 2016-05-03
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/appdev/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/03/%23ubuntu-uos-appdev.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | SDK Roadmap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22678/sdk-roadmap/
<bzoltan_> hi folks
<bzoltan_> popey:  will you set up the HO?
<bzoltan_> hello davidcalle
<bzoltan_> just give me the HO, I can start at any time
<popey> \o/
<popey> thanks davidcalle
<davidcalle> bzoltan_: hey!
<davidcalle> popey: thank you ;)
<bzoltan_> davidcalle:  and this is the deck i will do - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1m05DdWJ4Q4jEhnx0g-41sS1eXA2ELoRYKlRHkV7B2s0/edit#slide=id.ge709b1dc0_3_25
<davidcalle> bzoltan_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYde719is3-eYbNibsFXFAsmkckAiXBk0mP4p2qVaBpft-Q0BA?hl=en&authuser=1
<davidcalle> faenil: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYde719is3-eYbNibsFXFAsmkckAiXBk0mP4p2qVaBpft-Q0BA?hl=en&authuser=1
<davidcalle> And anyone interested in joining of course ^
<davidcalle> We'll start in two min o/
<bzoltan_> timp: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1m05DdWJ4Q4jEhnx0g-41sS1eXA2ELoRYKlRHkV7B2s0/edit#slide=id.ge709b1dc0_3_25
<zsombi> hello guys, we're trying to get on air, Google doesn't let us do that yet...
 * nik90 waits patiently
<davidcalle> popey: still around? For some reason, the on air button is insensitive for me, any hints?
<davidcalle> mhall119: ? ^
<davidcalle> dpm: ? ^
<dpm> davidcalle, what's the issue? No broadcast possible?
<davidcalle> dpm: yes
<bzoltan_> dpm:  we are still offline
<dpm> davidcalle, you are running the hangout?
<dpm> popey, can you jump in, or are you in another session?
<davidcalle> dpm: I am
 * dpm tries to start a hangout himself
<mhall119> davidcalle: are you the one who created the hangout?
<davidcalle> mhall119: yes
<mhall119> we've had this randomly in the past, starting a new hangout usually fixes it
 * nik90 is hoping for the SDK LXD reveal
<popey> sorry, missed the ping, am in an irc session
<davidcalle> New hangout https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfyN2ul0HTYyd2nh3JTlhSicyAy731lw5lR8zuggNnBrz3c7A?hl=en&authuser=1
<popey> s/irc/other/
<dpm> davidcalle, I do get the button
<davidcalle> dpm: same :)
<dpm> ah, cool
<timp> yay
<timp> we should be live now
<nik90> you're live
<nik90> hurray
<Blin> Anyone know, if I want to programing for Ubuntu I have to use only QT Creator? QT Creator is not good choice for working. Will Ubuntu-SDK as module for other frameworks? I use CLion, and it's better framework
<Blin> I think programist must have a choice
<faenil> in the ideal world... yeah... :(
<bzoltan_> bring on QUESTIONs if you have
<faenil> Blin: you don't have to use QtCreator fwiw...you can do everything via cmdline as well
<faenil> but developing plugins for other IDEs requires some effort that could be better spent on things like improving features and performance of the components...
<Blin> but Ubuntu-SDK for QT Creator
<bzoltan_> Blin: you are free to use your favourite IDE
<bzoltan_> Blin:  but your milage might be longer if you stick to cli and vi/emacs :)
<timp> Blin: it does work, but the support may be less than for qtc
<bzoltan_> Blin:  also QtCreator is the official and most supported, native IDE for Qt and QML development. Nothing beats QtCreator when it comes to Qt/QML development.
<timp> as in the other sessions, prefix your questions that you want us to answer in the video with QUESTION:
<Blin> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu-SDK as module for other frameworks or support other frameworks?
<Blin> For example CLIon
<nik90> QUESTION: Is Ubuntu.Components 1.3 stable? In other words, can we expect API changes? Do you recommend app devs to use 1.3 or 1.2?
<timp> nik90: here is your reveal ;)
<nik90> bzoltan_, YES!
<DanChapman> lxd! \o/ been using it successfully the last few days!
<faenil> nik90: ^ :D
<nik90> QUESTION: With LXD, do you provide a Unity8 environment within which app devs run their app to check if it works correctly?
<nik90> QUESTION: What's the timeframe for LXD support?
<nik90> QUESTION: So when I update the LXD container, would I continously get the latest API updates regardless of which host version I am using...(big fan of LTS) ? Can you explain a little more on how the LXD stuff works?
<miv0ligo> QUESTION: I updated my computer to 16.04 and I don't have "Ubuntu SDK Desktop Kit" any longer just "Desktop" when selecting a kit. How can I "install" the "Ubuntu SDK Desktop Kit"?
<faenil> miv0ligo: make sure you still have ubuntu-sdk-dev
<nik90> timp, you can hide the slides now ;)
<miv0ligo> faenil: I don't have that, hmmmmm
<faenil> miv0ligo: that's the Ubuntu SDK Desktop Kit afair
<timp> nik90: yes, for example I've been testing vivid+overlay in an lxd container with a xenial host
<miv0ligo> faenil: thanks, I'll try to install it later on, BTW I don't see a mention about it on  https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/11/19/here-comes-brand-new-ubuntu-sdk-ide-tools/
<nik90> QUESTION: Can I install additional packages required by an app within the LXD images? The Ubuntu Desktop Kit is very limited since it doesn't have dependencies that I need
<sbt_> QUESTION: If the UITK is included in the platform snap, so the app snaps does not have to include it itself? Will Qt also be in the platform snap then, or did I misunderstand that?
<faenil> for the ones who dare playing with the experimental stuff https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
<bzoltan_> nik90:  i will answer it in a sec
<timp> nik90: yes: lxc exec yourimagename apt install my-package
<sbt_> okay, that sounds good, thanks for the answer :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | uNav Planning Session | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22670/unav-planning-session/
<davidcalle> Thanks for watching!
<sbt> that looks really nice!
<Amar2> looks brilliant
<faenil> it looks gorgeous :)
 * sbt wants a tablet now :P
<popey> me too!
<Amar2> a small bubble could appear
<Amar2> when you hover
<faenil> +1
<faenil> to popey
<miv0ligo> Amar2: how do you hover on a touch screen :P
<cm-t> suggestion: is there a way to get the wikipedia or anything to put in the backgrounf of that header/bubble's popup, anything to show how the place looks like ?
<Amar2> good point! lol
<cm-t> the wikipedia image of the place
<Amar2> I dont have one of these tablets unfortunately
<cm-t> wikiplace, can't remember the wiki* to geet it
<cm-t> no sure i make sense
<Amar2> cm-t you mean a bit it is in google maps ?
<Amar2> images of locations
<cm-t> Amar2: oh, right, google maps already does that, but my inspiration went from scopes :)
<cm-t> Amar2: but you are right, google map do it well, that 's the feature i was trying to describe
<Amar2> still a good suggestion though, an image (or images) could fit in that white sidebar
<miv0ligo> popey's voice :D
<Amar2> that would be fun
<cm-t> I might not understand when i'm listening the ubuntu podcast and my road map
<cm-t> or ubuntu on air
<miv0ligo> I think his picture should appear on the screen when giving directions
<cm-t> ahah
<cm-t> could the voice be imported from that mycroft thing where you can 'donate" your voice such as popey example in the video ?
<miv0ligo> maybe option to download additional voices when the app is already installed
<miv0ligo> QUESTION: is there any chance uNav would work offline in future?
<cm-t> QUESTION â
<Amar2> QUESTION: Are they any plans to integrate Mycroft into uNav?
<cm-t> a skill from mycroft would be open a position url with unav
<cm-t> Amar2: â
<Amar2> haha
<cm-t> QUESTION: (not sure about the licencing issue) could a voice be imported from vocalid (as seen on mycrof, if i am right, popey ) ?
<costales_> @cm-t you'll can download voices from another users :)
<costales_> from a github repository
<popey> cm-t: I don't know what license mycroft / vocalid have negotiated
<cm-t> thanks
<miv0ligo> QUESTION: can uNav show other Ubuntu users?
<cm-t> uNav as a social network :)
<Amar2> that would be great
<cm-t> QUESTION: miv0ligo talk about ubuntu users layout, but what about road traffic and other stuff ?
<costales_> http://opentraffic.io/
<Amar2> thanks for the session
<cm-t> thanks o/
<miv0ligo> thanks guys, great session!
<popey> Thanks everyone!
<costales_> :)
<costales_> thanks to all of you :)
<cm-t> i forgot to ask, costales_
<nik90> thanks everyone!
<costales_> what Rudy :)
<cm-t> last update of unav_donate, was it only about the logo, or should i search for aother easteregg :) ?
<costales_> xD it's offline now (LOL)
<costales_> the message :)
<cm-t> haha, nice :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/appdev/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/03/%23ubuntu-uos-appdev.html
#ubuntu-uos-appdev 2016-05-04
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/appdev/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/05/04/%23ubuntu-uos-appdev.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | App Design Workshop Planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22657/app-design-workshop-planning/
<nik90> hello hello :)
<monmien> hi :)
<timp> hello :)
<popey> Hi
<faenil> o/
<alexabreu> hi
<justCarakas> Hi
<justCarakas> we can see you
<justCarakas> QUESTION will  there be something included like react or angular to make it easier to create apps ?
<alexabreu> justCarakas, you'll have  to wait a bit we talk about that in the presentation :)
<justCarakas> ok nice :d
<popey> uhm
<popey> you guys in the wrong channel? :)
<nik90> uhm wrong channel?
<nik90> justCarakas, ^^
<justCarakas> this is the channel under the video http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22677/webapps-update/
<nik90> justCarakas, you might want to inform the presenter that it is the wrong irc channel they are using
<justCarakas> what channel should it be
<nik90> justCarakas, I think #ubuntu-uos-core
<justCarakas> no this is about webapps so not code
<justCarakas> core
<nik90> justCarakas, oh wait..its the webapps session that is scheduled for the next hour
<cant_snail> where is Mark? :|
<popey> mark's q&a is later
<nik90> cant_snail, that plenary is scheduled for 18:00 UTC..4 hrs from now :)
<nik90> QUESTION: Does the design team have the resources to handle weekly q&a / design sessions?
<cant_snail> 4h, cant_wait
<nik90> Personally, I think it is a great idea :)
<justCarakas> +1
<cant_snail> QUESTION: what software and OS do you use for designs?
<nik90> popey, (comment), it would be nice to hold consistent sessions so that it becomes predictable. It can be twice a month or whatever frequency the design team can handle, but the important point being "regular/consistent"
<nik90> popey, (comment), If there are no app submissions, then it would be nice to show tiny presentation of stuff they are working on.
<justCarakas> Awesome react news
<cant_snail> inkscape is great! sometimes i find illustrator harder to use
<nik90> popey, (comment) once I get a blog post link, I can also announce it in the ubuntu-app-dev telegram channel
<aquarius_> QUESTION: when talking about stuff you're working on, it's often really useful to hear *why* a certain decision was made, and which approaches were rejected -- we app devs can see what design decisions have been made, once they're released, but we often don't know the reasoning behind those decisions, or know that they're coming until they arrive. Is this something that you can use the sessions to speak abou
<aquarius_> t, or is that stuff all secret?
<aquarius_> would be lovely lovely lovely if more design team members could hang out in the telegram Ubuntu Apps channel for real-time conversation, too :)
<popey> nik90: can you link to the telegram group here?
<popey> telegram.me/ whatever
<nik90> popey, https://telegram.me/ubuntuappdev
<popey> thanks
<nik90> faenil, yw :)
<aquarius_> (I should note that faenil does an excellent job already, but more voices are always welcome :))
<nik90> popey, yes, more admins would be great. At the moment there are only 2 admins.
<faenil> aquarius_: awww :)
<timp> nik90: it maybe a nice place to make UITK announcements too, usually just a link to a blog post
<nik90> timp, I have started doing that as well.. Anything dev related is announced in that channel.
<timp> nik90: okay, great :)
<nik90> timp, I started just a month ago only.
<nik90> popey, (comment) It would be super awesome to create a youtube playlist of these design sessions. App devs can quickly go through them and would help avoid duplicate questions in the future. An archive of these cool design sessions.
<aquarius_> I don't think I'm suggesting that you publish everything instantly -- I understand the concern about putting misleading information out there! But once a decision is made, it's useful to know about the stuff you rejected too, because it's helpful to know which directions we *won't* be going in.
<aquarius_> yes. Good call popey; that's exactly right.
<miv0ligo> example: why notifications are white?
<cant_snail> white? o_O
<faenil> miv0ligo: at the same time, explaining and going through everything creates the risk of spending too much time preparing for those presentations :D then community goes "why is it white? I like it, I don't like it, that's bad, that's good"
<faenil> I agree that it's nice to have headsup about what's changing in design, but preparing an explanation for every visual design change..doesn't scale :)
<aquarius_> QUESTION: can some design resource be devoted to the developer experience? What it's like to develop apps, how the IDE looks, how easy and understandable the process is and how it can be improved?
<aquarius_> That would be a great thing to go over in little bits as part of a number of design sessions, and it might help community people make small incremental improvements to the DX.
<nik90> faenil, that is inevitable imo..that needs to be happen to ensure community and canonical designers are on the same page :) ..
<nik90> faenil, and that might even help the community to defend these decisions when someone else questions them.
<miv0ligo> faenil: but if you guys keep quiet, people will think all decisions are based on current mood of designers
<bzoltan_> aquarius_: +1 :)
<dbarth> hey, for webapps questions, can you re-paste questions so we can address them when we're done with the general pres.?
<aquarius_> faenil, "preparing an explanation for every visual design change..doesn't scale" -- you have _already prepared_ those explanations; you must have had those discussions and decisions in order to arrive at a conclusion. It's a question of telling outsiders about them, not about making new ones up :)
<dbarth> i know there's been a few while i was not on the chan
<faenil> aquarius_: I'm not a designer so don't take my word for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a designer told me that he changed something because he thought it looked better
<aquarius_> that's a perfectly fine explanation
<faenil> aquarius_: I mean, waht can you do? design is a very subjective matter. As long as you follow the style and the patterns, which they do
<miv0ligo> QUESTION: does anyone from the design team use an Ubuntu phone as the only phone?
<faenil> miv0ligo: me :)
<aquarius_> but knowing whether something was changed because it just looks better, whether it was changed because it's part of a bigger upcoming set of changes that will make the whole platform look better, or it was changed because of something else is really useful
<miv0ligo> faenil: good to hear :)
<timp> faenil: which one?
<aquarius_> I know I keep going on about this, but a set of brilliantly reasoned changes where we don't know the reasons are indistinguishable from a set of completely arbitrary changes which were made by dice rolls. :)
<aquarius_> Thank you faenil, JamesJM, popey!
<faenil> miv0ligo: been using it since it was released, krillin
<nik90> popey, thanks for the sessions..looking forward to interacting more with the design team
<miv0ligo> thanks guys!!
<popey> \o/
<timp> faenil: ah, I'm using the same. But I need it often for testing, so I'm considering to get another one
<popey> Thanks for all the questions!
<popey> I just ordered a Meizu pro 5
<popey> No idea when it will turn up
<miv0ligo> popey: gold?
<timp> I like the size of the first BQ for a phone. I'm not a big fan of those huge ones to carry in my pocket
<timp> if the meizu was smaller I would consider it
<popey> miv0ligo: yes
<miv0ligo> timp: same here, the size of e4.5 is perfect for me. Screen could be a bit bigger though
<faenil> yeah, I don't like huge phones :/
<faenil> always difficult to find 4-5" phones nowadays
<miv0ligo> faenil: true, that's why some of my friends got iPhones although they prefer Androids
<timp> miv0ligo: I was wondering how big the fairphone2 is
<timp> and I'm not sure if/when we can run ubuntu on that
<justCarakas> QUESTION when will we be able to use React for our apps ?
<alexabreu> justCarakas, it is in alpha now, very very early alpha, it should be available in beta in the next few month and ideally released during the summer
<alexabreu> justCarakas, we will do some posts on the ubuntu-phone mailing list
<miv0ligo> timp: I've no idea. I guess popey have or had that phone ;)
<justCarakas> ok then I'll wait for that for my new apps :)
<popey> timp: mariogrip is porting to FP2
<timp> popey: how big is it?
<alexabreu> justCarakas, or we can get in touch before that to use your apps as test bed and test their support :)
<popey> timp: no idea, I don't have one - join #ubuntu-touch and ask mariogrip :)
<alexabreu> justCarakas, the more the better
<timp> popey: okay, thanks
<justCarakas> Im open for that alexabreu
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Webapps Update | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22677/webapps-update/
<alexabreu> justCarakas, you can join us on #ubuntu-webapps
<alexabreu> justCarakas, do you have project pages up somewhere ?
<aquarius_> am very confused; the webapps talk is finished? shouldn't it just be starting?
<justCarakas> alexabeu not yet it will be an app for my phone provider, was going to start on friday but now I might wait a bit
<dbarth> aquarius_: it just finished in fact
<justCarakas> aquarius_: I think there was a timezone mistake
<dbarth> aquarius_: there's a roadmap update you may want to look at:
<dbarth> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eECjnPmq2MSHYA8oggxdCMg7Gjg9c9fG22HpWxVNzUs/edit#slide=id.g7b91e8120_14
<dbarth> slides here ^^
<aquarius_> ah! ok. Oops. I'll read the roadmap and see if it answers my two questions :)
<dbarth> it's all about snaps!
<aquarius_> dbarth, document is restricted, not public
<dbarth> and then there's a pretty cool reactnative alpha port that justinmcp is releasing
<dbarth> aquarius_: ah, let me correct that
<aquarius_> react native will be cool
<dbarth> there you go
<dbarth> aquarius_: it's getting there
<dbarth> you get 2048, tictactoe and the movie explorer example
<aquarius_> my two questions are: will we be able to add to homescreen from the browser and have that create a "webapp", and how close are we to supporting progressive web apps as Chrome/Opera/Edge/Firefox do?
<dbarth> ie, you can start w/reactjs a webviews, and once ready to optimize for native, you can port quickly to react native, knowing there is an ubuntu port
<dbarth> aquarius_: installable webapps is the 1st answer, and yes that's getting closer
<dbarth> i think snappy is making that a lot more likely to happen
<dbarth> if that makes sense
<aquarius_> hrm. what's an "installable webapp"? the document suggests that it's a click/snap installed from the app store, which is not what I'm talking about
<dbarth> progressive webapps i'm not sure, but i guess that's a step in the same direction
<aquarius_> perhaps I have misunderstood!
<dbarth> still reading on what that takes technically
<aquarius_> the idea behind PWA is exactly that you don't need to make a separate downloadable distribution package of anything
<dbarth> aquarius_: it's not a click/snap, it's a tab/url; but the snap interface would make that a lot more direct and native than having to support a new app type
<aquarius_> it's the actual web; it's not just web technologies being used inside a packaged up app
<aquarius_> OK. I'll try to find some time to review the session
<dbarth> we're saying the same thing
<dbarth> ie, PWA or what i understand it is about turns tabs into top-level app windows, with a launcher, right?
<dbarth> that's what i feel our container turned into a snappy interface can provide
<aquarius_> dbarth, cool. I think I'm thinking of this as a browser thing -- the browser offers UI to turn this site into a thing which appears in my app list, and possibly only shows that UI if the app meets certain criteria -- so I don't really mind _how_ it's implemented (whether it makes a snap and installs it, or what)
<fruity> hello
<fruity> hello charles
<aquarius_> it's the popular exciting CallÃ© scopes design showoff session :-)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Scopes design evolution | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22685/scopes-design-evolution/
<sbt> :D
<davidcalle> marcustomlinson: pstolowski https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeC30Zp15qUEeHTp2ZAzZCAhdhCKIeGNMfQG1JhqenGyux7Jw
<aquarius_> davidcalle, the scopes design thing is now, right? your G+ post says it's 1800UTC
<davidcalle> aquarius_: it is!
<nealmcb> are the slides for this presentation available somewhere?  put it in tht topic??
<davidcalle> nealmcb: will ask during the presentation
<davidcalle> We'll start in a few sec
<davidcalle> Make sure you prefix your questions with QUESTION
<sbt> Mac OS :D
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Filters look awesome :D
<miv0ligo> QUESTION: when on my phone????!!!!
<ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Can you still scroll left to right through scopes on the phone or have to use the bottom edge to move between scopes?
<sbt> QUESTION: After JavaScript scopes, what about python scopes?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> OOOOOOH That score looks amazing <3
<ChloeWolfieGirl> *Store
<ChloeWolfieGirl> These new scopes and these new looks look amazing AF.
<kalikiana> +1
<ChloeWolfieGirl> <3 theres a considerable amount
<ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: With the new scopes has there been thoughts for themes or background images, so people don't have to see white if they'd rather see a darker colour maybe because its late, or to make there phone more there own?
<sbt> +1
<ChloeWolfieGirl> <3
<DS-McGuire> QUESTION: ETA of these scopes?
<sbt> +1 for cards in UUITK
<dobey> someone's child seems to have a question
<marcustomlinson> :P
<davidcalle> dobey: :)
<ChloeWolfieGirl> @dobey haha
<faenil> miv0ligo: I'll be doing the scopes card component, if everything goes as planned :)
<davidcalle> (He is already complaining about the new design)
<pamarsan> I have one question: how about implementing an optional dark theme? It is much more comfortable for the eye to read everything, above ihodge@example.net. Thanks! :)
<CHeeseburg> Was the link put up already?
<micah68> QUESTION: Has there been any thinking about discrete "pages" of content rather than continuous scroll? For apps I believe that this is what customers expect and is easier to get where you want by muscle memory.
<miv0ligo> faenil: I'm dancing in my head now :)
<faenil> miv0ligo: haha, I hope that's a positive sign :)
<redboxez> QUESTION: why are so many tech sites confused about scopes?
<miv0ligo> faenil: it is for sure :D
<redboxez> QUESTION: what are your favorite scopes and why?
<tedg> Clearly no one should use OSX, it has issues :-)
<pstolowski> tedg, i think she is not, her laptop got stolen some time ago and she switched to ubuntu
<miv0ligo> QUESTION: why you don't use Ubuntu at least for this presentation? It makes me sad :(
<dobey> davidcalle, dizzypaty: not pagination exactly, but presention as pages like android/ios apps grid
<sbt> QUESTION: does the design team use ubuntu in ther workflow at all ;)
<tedg> pstolowski: I thought when she minimized the browser it was OSX
<redboxez> QUESTION: what should be a scope and what should be an app? what is the advantages of making a scope instead of an app
<davidcalle> Sorry for the happy mess :)
<pstolowski> tedg, oh, didn't notice, maybe she got a new one then
<dobey> lol no sound
<davidcalle> Aaand we are back
<tedg> pstolowski: https://youtu.be/flOYkk-4zvQ?t=20m57s
<CHeeseburg> Next UOS there should be test presentation on hangouts with all presenters to make sure all this sound issues are sorted out
<dobey> pstolowski: pagination doesn't solve the apps grid problem either
<dobey> the main issue is people want to arrange their apps in a way that most suits their usage, and they want to see their wallpaper behind the apps grid
<dobey> like ios/android
<kazord> hi everyone
<tedg> dobey: For the record, I want neither of those :-)
<dobey> CHeeseburg: there's really no testing that sound works with hangouts. it might work one second and not the next
<dobey> tedg: you aren't people :)
<pamarsan> QUESTION: how about implementing an optional dark theme for scopes? Like Music App (much more comfortable for the eye, above all at night)
<kazord> hangouts need some seconds to find a good way, after connected i had bad sound for like 20s then good
<dobey> i think the problem here is that someone's laptop doesn't have properly working mic or something, and three people in the same glass room makes it confusing when the wrong person mutes
<dobey> marcustomlinson: as long as the only thing you're doing, is consuming and displaying data, anyway
<marcustomlinson> dobey: sure, which is a very common situation in app development
<pstolowski> right. many interactions -> better make an app
<dobey> right, but a lot of people start out with scopes, and then they want to add more and more interactions
<kazord> when stop interaction ?
<dobey> nobody likes the store scope? :(
<kazord> for exemple: i'm app developper and made rssreaderscope, not really easy to had rss feed, but it really need this feature
<d0od> I get the impression no-one actually uses scopes... lol :P
<kazord> if you dont want to go though webservice for that (like tt-rss)
<sbt> QUESTION: Do you use Ubuntu phones as your daily drivers?
<kazord> MX4
<miv0ligo> d0od: maybe not no-one but ...
<dobey> everyone uses the apps scope
<kazord> app luncher for me ...
<kazord> (side shortcut)
<dobey> you can't pin apps until you open them from apps scope though; unless you only ever use the default pinned apps
<kazord> yeah, one a while, for store too
<miv0ligo> ok ok, we believe you ;)
<kazord> QUESTION:plans for more widget ? like list selection ?
<sbt> QUESTION (I asked above, but it was skipped): What about a python scopes api?
<sbt> ok :) I almost guessed
<miv0ligo> need to go, thanks for great session and awesome new designs guys and gals o/
<sbt> Python is not just a language either :P But yeah sure ;)
<dobey> kazord: if you need that much, you should probably write an app
<user20> QUESTION: In the past it was possible to show the twitter trends in the today scope. Any plans to bring this feature back?
<pstolowski> i need to leave and drop from the HO
<kazord> dobey: an app for configuration the scope ?
<davidcalle> Thanks pstolowski !
<dobey> kazord: yes
<kazord> dobey can i call the app from scope ? (needed for my scope rssreaderscope)
<dobey> kazord: you can register your app as a url handler for rssreaderscope:// and have an action which opens such a url, and it should open the app, yes
<kazord> any doc/tutos about that somewhere ? :)
<dobey> i'm not sure
<marcustomlinson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/today-scope
<user20> thanks
<dizzypaty> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1V-oHHYj-I-tZAWpdbKbkmngyyqENsNAe0g74Ubh2v6I/edit#slide=id.ge741bf13b_2_215
<marcustomlinson> user20: seems odd that it went missing
<faenil> dizzypaty: it's not public
<ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: will the new scope things like, removing of faves, the new bottom edge, be something thats easy to get used to those who are used to using todays scopes intergration? IS there still swiping left to right with scopes you want to keep open and have them all open from boot? My set up is I have the today scope then picture scope then app scop
<ChloeWolfieGirl> e, I wouldn't go to the picture scope if I didn't have to reach the app scope, I have it there to see updates of images, its just nice, like stopping to smell the flowers on your way to work, will I have o activly go out to see the image scope so I'm less likely to use it or will it be the same as the current scope version?
<davidcalle> dizzypaty: can you make the presentation public? thanks :)
<kazord> QUESTIONS: about scope nav, why you didn't make dot clickable (to navigate faster to specific scope)
<redboxez> .kick udsbotu
<redboxez> .slap udsbotu
<dobey> redboxez: stop being rude
<redboxez> it's just a bot..
<redboxez> doesn't have feelings
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<dobey> it's just a bot, so there's no need for you to attack it and cause a distraction in the channel
<redboxez> ok
<marcustomlinson> kazord: There won't be dots any more with the browser style appearance: http://i.imgur.com/oHBvNQu.png
<kazord> yeah no more, i'm sad about that
<kazord> always wanted to touch&move from dotline to go faster to the end
<marcustomlinson> kazord: I think it's a fair middleground
<redboxez> bye and thanks for your time
<marcustomlinson> you swipe up then tap the bottom scope
<dobey> marcustomlinson: that's only favorited scopes, or all "installed" scopes?
<marcustomlinson> dobey: right same situation as dots
<dobey> ok, that's good
<kazord> swipe&tap vs swipe (on specific zone) not really the same, but in term of dev and UI new design should see less lags
<dobey> kazord: old swipe was really not nice if you had more than 2-3 scopes
<kazord> dobey, i now :) cause to laggy to move 1 to 8th
<kazord> but if only we could touch & move from dot1 to dot8
<kazord> before UI move
<kazord> could had been a nice feature (too late now as UI change)
<dobey> the dots are too small a target
<marcustomlinson> kazord: design is really a tricky thing. I guess there will always be some people for and against certain aspects
<kazord> small to click yes
<kazord> but to drag for exemple
<marcustomlinson> I think the guys have come up with a cool solution considering how difficult their job is
<kazord> marcustomlinson, agree, in term of dev & ui animation, should be good
<kazord> i'm just 1year too late :)
<marcustomlinson> ;)
<dobey> kazord: seems like you'd need a long press to zoom, and then a tap or a drag/release, to do what you're describing. so not any faster than a swipe and tap really :)
<kazord> dobey, imagine that dotbar is touchable zone, when you press, it record position, if u move left/right, it change scope
<dobey> also the tabs will probably work better for kb/mouse interaction
<kazord> until you move enough to release
<dobey> kazord: but then you still have the same problem as just swiping left/right in the main view
<kazord> and any icon/indicaiton on top of the bar can help you to stop on scope you wanted
<dobey> also easy to run out of left/right movement in that case, if you have many scopes favorited
<dobey> anyway, session over; gotta do real work for a while now :)
<kazord> left -> position divided in scope number on left, position -> right divied in
<kazord> is scope source code somewhere ?
<dobey> unity8 is yes
<dobey> ubuntu is open source, the code is in the archives, and projects hosted on launchpad
<kazord> yeah but sometimes hard to find an app inside a full project
<kazord> (like scope inside unity8)
<kazord> i will search this dotline :)
<dobey> cheers :)
#ubuntu-uos-appdev 2016-05-05
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<JamesJM> quit
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Scopes roundtable and API roadmap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22662/whats-new-in-scopes/
<davidcalle> Hangout link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcJityc4DxCEbCGQyGi32VEO9Ypa9EAYYf5WkEbAuYQo2RaeQ
<davidcalle> pstolowski: marcustomlinson  ^
<pstolowski> a demo scope utlizing filters I showed on my slides: lp:~stolowski/+junk/scope-filters2
<marcustomlinson> at the bottom of: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/scopes/cpp/sdk-15.04.1/previewwidgets/
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* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-appdev to: Track: App & Scope Development | Dekko planning session | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22671/dekko-planning-session/
<popey> DanChapman: you having connection issues?
<popey> We can do this via irc if so.
<popey> Seems DanChapman is having cloudy internet, in the not good way
<DanChapman> yeah hangouts is running really slow and just going black
<popey> hah :)
<popey> Okay, lets do irc then :)
<DanChapman> Ok then let's go for irc then :-(
<popey> Ok, lets start then. So first off shall we talk about the upcoming release..
<popey> https://launchpad.net/dekko/+milestones  milestones are here
<popey> hmm, those don't look right :)
<DanChapman> Yep :-) so the next milestone is  the 1.0-beta which is a big one.
<popey> Ok, Worth setting a date as a target?
<DanChapman> And will be shipping a completely new backend including POP3 support which is super cool.
<popey> Ooh!
<DanChapman> Probably a good idea. But it's hard to estimate a rough date at the current state
<popey> Ok.
<DanChapman> the bug list to clear to get that out is still quite large. New contributors welcomed for anyone reading :-D
<popey> Speaking of bugs.
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko is the bug list.
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bugs?orderby=-heat&start=0 sorted by heat.
<popey> I notice from the tags that we don't have any tagged bitesized.
<popey> I guess that's because dekko is complex code base and finding bitesize ones is hard?
<popey> Or just that they all got done when we did the Google Summer Of Code thing eaerlier in the year? ;)
<LarreaMikel> I'm in another session, but I would like to ask a question here... may I?
<popey> sure thing
<LarreaMikel> QUESTION:Is Dekko planning to implement PGP in the near future?
<LarreaMikel> Thanks ;)
<DanChapman> Yeah the old code base was rather complex, and you usually had to dig into c++. I've made an effort with the rewrite to provide a nice qml client api that new contributors would be able to get up to speed pretty quickly and do pretty much all message related tasks without touching c++ so that should help figure out bitesize stuff going forward
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1417587 that would be this bug LarreaMikel
<LarreaMikel> thank you popey ;)
<popey> DanChapman: awesome.
<DanChapman> LarreaMikel, yes it's very likely to happen some point shortly after 1.0
<popey> The PGP question is quite popular among our user base
<LarreaMikel> great!
<LarreaMikel> I'll read you later!
<popey> ok
<popey> DanChapman: the other question which gets asked quite a lot is one of notifications ð
<mhall119> and desktop packages, I still want that
<mhall119> the one I have uses all my CPU
<popey> Desktop package as in .deb or .snap?
<DanChapman> Lol it's that word again. So notifications is a complex issue. I see penk has made a start on getting my email plugin into the accounts-plugins https://code.launchpad.net/~penk/account-plugins/add-accounts-plugin-e-mail which is cool. But that will  now need to be extended to handle pop3 as well. We also need someone to pick up the polld plugin work
<DanChapman> mhall119, as soon as things become usable again I will send you a deb to try :-D.
<popey> ok, have poked pat asking if we can get some more time from Penk
<popey> Nobody has looked at making a snap yet have they?
<popey> Thinking that might be a nice task for somoene to take on, crafting a sane snapcraft.yaml
<DanChapman> I looked... eyes glazed other .... closed tab
<popey> now launchpad can spit out snaps
<popey> Hah, wise ã
<DanChapman> s/other/over
<popey> I can take a ihodge@example.net.
<popey> I've made a few snaps now, it's quite fun
<DanChapman> Sounds good :-)
<popey> for some value of "fun"
<popey> Okay. I have taken a to-do to have a ihodge@example.net.
<mhall119> popey: either format
<popey> Actually could be quite an interesting one to do.
<mhall119> DanChapman: awesome, thanks!
<DanChapman> also the polld plugin is imap only so that would also need extending to pop3. otherwise the notifications issue will remain. I'll add that to the bug report
<popey> Good call.
<DanChapman> Is there anyone we can poke about getting help with the polld plugins. Or I can make a start after the next release if we can't
<popey> I'll speak to pat and see if we can get some help
 * popey adds a to-do
 * DanChapman was going to show a demo of the new Dekko today. :-(
<popey> aw
<DanChapman> Cheers. One thing we have never really talked about is handling calendar invites. Is there some way currently i can share them with calendar app?
<popey> Hm.
<popey> We did discuss this a while back I think, using calendar:// urls?
<popey> With Ted I think.
<DanChapman> One of the new header section filters can show you all calendar invites so it might be nice to be able to actually do something with them.
<popey> with the details of the event encoded in the url.
<DanChapman> Hmm did we? I don';t recall that one :-/
<popey> heh
<popey> maybe it was just me, sorry.
<popey> or maybe I'm dreaming, all possible
<popey> So this is where you get a calendar invite via email, right
<popey> And you want to do what with it? Send it to calendar? Or do you want to interrogate the calendar to see if we're attending?
<popey> I think for the latter, we could possibly get access to calendar with the same apparmor profile that calendar itself uses
<popey> Given dekko is a blessed app, I think this is reasonable, right?
<DanChapman> Yes receive via email and you want to put the event in your calendar.
<popey> So do you want to just read the calendar?
<DanChapman> Like it would be nice to just pass calendar/eds/whatever the .ics attachment and let the receiving app do what it wants with it rather than try and add calendar functionality to into dekko
<popey> or do you want to inject into it too?
<popey> right, yes
<DanChapman> Is it worth showing in Dekko (an icon or something?) that the event was already added to your calendar?
<popey> Well, I think the expectation (set by gmail / outlook) is that you'd get that, yes
<popey> if you get email notitifications from gmail saying "Meeting in 10 mins", doesn't it show in the mail that you're a "yes" attending?
<popey> But you're mostly talking about throwing the ics at calendar app
<popey> do we have a bug for that already? If so we can add calendar and talk to Bill / Renato about that
<DanChapman> Yeah i think it does show you that in gmail notifications. Yeah i would ike to just pass the ics off. Would be nice to be able to show you've already done it as well. Let me see if there is a bug, i don't think there is....
<DanChapman> Nope can't find one. I'll do that after this session then and add calendar to it.
<popey> sweet
<popey> I'll speak to the guys
 * popey adds a to-do
<DanChapman> I'm super excited about releasing the unified inbox and smart folder features in the next update :-) They are working so nice!
<popey> \o/
<popey> Can't wait.
<popey> I'll test that on my laptop when I build a snap of it ã
<DanChapman> So a common thing I see in client's nowadays is a "snooze" feature. Like does anyone actually use that? And is it something Dekko should look into doing?
<popey> What does that even do?
<DanChapman> It hides the message until a certain time and then it "re-appears".
<DanChapman> I personally don't get the point
<popey> Blimey, how very 21st century
<popey> Yeah, I can see why people do it, "Procrastinate" button ã
<DanChapman> hah! :-p
<DanChapman> I'll stick that on the "maybe one day" list then.
<popey> yeah, wishlist
<popey> bitesize even
<popey> i.e. Someone Elses Problem
<DanChapman> done!
<popey> :)
<popey> Ok, we've got a few mins left, anything else we should discuss?
<popey> I am thinking once we get a snap, we could possibly upload two to the snap store, stable and nightly perhaps?
<popey> might be a good way to get wider testing
<popey> having a cron job which shoves it in the store, warts and all ?
<DanChapman> Nothing immediate to discuss. Next meeting i would like to go through the search filters when James is around.
<DanChapman> Yep that sounds good to me :-)
<popey> wanna do that as a hangout?
<popey> if your connection can handle it heh :)
<popey> or is it something that you can do with images and irc?
<DanChapman> Yeah i can do that as a hangout will back on my home network then :-) It's like the 1990's on this connection. Went to download chrome 1hr30mins! hah!
<popey> haha
<popey> Ok. Thanks DanChapman
<popey> I'll crack on with my to-dos
<popey> we can pounce on James anytime though, feel free to ping him a mail
<DanChapman> Thanks popey.
<popey> Have a great weekend!
<DanChapman> Sorry for the network issues everyone.
<DanChapman> popey, and you!
<LarreaMikel> thanks Dan ;)
<LarreaMikel> and nice job!
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{'channel': 'ubuntu-uos-appdev', 'month': 5}