#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-03
<toabctl> i would like to have a ubuntu-cloak
<toabctl> can somebody help, please!?
<jussi01> toabctl: #ubuntu-irc for cloaks
<jussi01> rww: please note the last join :)
<toabctl> jussi01, thx
<rww> jussi01: ta
<Akos> there are ubuntu-irc cloaks that are given out?
<rww> Akos: if you're an Ubuntu Member
<Akos> rww: aha, now i understand (:
<Akos> thank you
<nhandler> jussi01: Can you s/Freenode/freenode/ in the /topic ;)
* jussi01 changed the topic of #ubuntu-irc-helpers to: Welcome to #ubuntu-irc-helpers - The Ubuntu IRC Helpers team exists to help co-ordinate and educate helpers in the the Ubuntu support channels on freenode | This is not a support channel | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/UbuntuIRCHelpers | Please join #ubuntu-meta for unanswered questions | #metabot-client for LjL's metabot client - more help with making #ubuntu a better place!
<czajkowski> could you make it any longer :p
<jussi01> czajkowski: go look at #ubuntu's topic :D
<czajkowski> not_logging_in_there :)
<nhandler> jussi01: Might I also suggest adding *!*@freenode/staff/* to the access list?
<jussi01> nhandler: feel free...
 * MenZa wibbles.
 * IdleOne wobbles
 * jussi01 gobbles
 * guntbert wonders if those activities are carnival related :)
<IdleOne> the wibbling and wobbling
<IdleOne> ?
<guntbert> IdleOne: yes :)
<IdleOne> will if it is carnival related I want cotton candy
<guntbert> sweet
 * erUSUL watchs the tumbleweeds pass away
 * funkyHat wiggles
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-04
<jussi01> catalyst thought of the day: Open-minded. It's easy to make assumptions about other people's motivations. When you decide someone is behaving maliciously, you've made an assumption about their motivation which may be difficult to disprove. Try to make your assumptions about other people's motivations as positive as possible.
<erUSUL> maybe ... Â« Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.  Â» XXDD maybe not that positive but ...
<jussi01> erUSUL: that one was shamelessliy stolen from freenodes catalysts page :D
<erUSUL> mine from wikipedia; it is a tie ;)
<jussi01> freenode beats wikipedia hands down :D
 * jussi01 hi 5's erUSUL
<erUSUL> :D
<jussi01> erUSUL: how are things going? have you run into any issues with support at all?  anything thats come into your head thats just clicked that you'd like to share?
<jussi01> erUSUL: that was a bit weird, Im looking into it
<erUSUL> tyvm
<jussi01> erUSUL: but best not to reply to those people who tell you its a bot, no point and it just adds trafic to the channel
<DJones> jussi01: Looking at the topic changes to get the -irc-helpers bit in, do you still need the "Karmic is released" bit of the topic
<jussi01> DJones: yeah, you do. should be ok now though
<erUSUL> !gutsy
<jussi01> oh the ubot left :(
<jussi01> erUSUL: can do here now :D
<erUSUL> ok
<jussi01> and erUSUL, the bug you found is a bit of a dumb on and should be fixed soon:
<jussi01> [15:03:44] <tsimpson> !info  bash | jussi01
<jussi01> [15:03:44] <ubottu> jussi01:
<jussi01> [15:03:47] <tsimpson> !info bash | jussi01
<jussi01> [15:03:48] <ubottu> jussi01: bash (source: bash): The GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 4.0-5ubuntu2 (karmic), package size 642 kB, installed size 3072 kB
<jussi01> see the issue?
<erUSUL> jussi01: two spaces and it chokes?
<jussi01> yup
<jussi01> erUSUL: bug should be fixed now :)
<czajkowski> jussi01: so who should we poke re -locoteams adn logging btw ?
 * jussi01 points czajkowski to his statement in -locoteams as well as the irc page on the wiki :D
<czajkowski> ah missed that
<jussi01> :)
<czajkowski> my ba d
<jussi01> o/
<maco> hmm who else is here...
<DJones> maco: Its quiet in here
 * erUSUL watches the tumbleweeds pass  ...
 * mneptok is somewhat active, but involved with work
 * pleia2 gives mneptok a cookie
 * Tm_T has no pc
<mneptok> pleia2: thanks for that! woo has been going through the double-stuf Oreos so fast i may not get any!
<mneptok> (she's amy08@example.org. chocolate helps.)
<pleia2> hehe
<maco> chocolate helps almost everything (except diets)
<mneptok> and complexion.
<maco> i wonder if that's more to do with the dairy-acne link and the fact that most cheap chocolate goodies are milk chocolate
<maco> milk chocolate makes me break out. 72% cocoa non-dairy chocolate does not
 * MenZa looks at -offtopic, tries to remember the channel he joined years ago.
<maco> MenZa: before it turned into a mild troll-fest?
 * erUSUL never joined -offtopic
<MenZa> I wouldn't say that's how it turned out :)
<MenZa> I *try* to keep it somewhat sober myself.
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-05
<enrico__> can i have italian support
<rww> enrico__: /join #ubuntu-it
<MenZa> rww: :(
<rww> MenZa: People who leave less than 30 seconds after asking for help confuse me :(
<IdleOne> enrico_ has been going into #ubuntu for the past 3 days ( maybe more ) and asking for the -it channel.
<IdleOne> just saying :)
<IdleOne> not that I think he is trolling in any way, just think they have either a very short memory or hasn't figured out auto-join for their client yet
<rww> banforward to #ubuntu-it! (j/k)
<IdleOne> hahaha
<mneptok> IdleOne: which user?
<IdleOne> enrico_
<mneptok> IdleOne: oh.
<mneptok> IdleOne: which user?
 * mneptok beams brightly and polishes his halo
 * IdleOne knocks the halo off of mneptok's head.
<IdleOne> Who did you take that from?
<rww> hahah
<mneptok> IdleOne: i found it in the trash behind Seveas' place
<IdleOne> hahaha
<IdleOne> I just happen to be looking and POW I got highlighted
<IdleOne> :)
<tux_mark_5> hello
<tux_mark_5> i'm using xubuntu 9.10 64 bit + ATI Catalyst 10.1 and I'm getting
<tux_mark_5> "Couldn't find matching GLX visual" error in most of 32 bit apps
<tux_mark_5> compiz and other 64-bit opengl apps work fine
<tux_mark_5> any ideas what might cause this?
<charlie-tca> tux_mark_5: Please join #ubuntu-meta for unanswered questions
<tux_mark_5> ok
<charlie-tca> This is not support, sorry.
<tux_mark_5> oh, sorry, my fault
<charlie-tca> no problem. Either #ubuntu-meta or #ubuntu should be able to help, though
<Pici> charlie-tca: #ubuntu-meta isn't for asking questions in.
<erUSUL> does ati catalyst install 32 bit compt libs?
<charlie-tca> Well,,, I just quoted the topic line here
<charlie-tca> Pici: What is #ubuntu-meta for?
<Pici> charlie-tca: It reports questions that have been unanswered in #ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> I see. Thanks.
<Pici> Hang out in there for a few minutes and you'll see.
<jerem_> french here?
<jussi01> jerem_: not really
<jussi01> !fr
<ubottu> Ce canal est en anglais uniquement. Si vous avez besoin d'aide ou voulez discuter en francais, merci de rejoindre #ubuntu-fr
<kaddi_> hi, there is a member in #kubuntu that wants his/her IP removed from the public logs. Is there anything one can do for her/him or is he/she out of luck?
<tsimpson> kaddi_: unfortunately uncle google has it by now
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-06
<IdleOne> can someone please explain what ot is in #ubuntu
<IdleOne> he has been given the trigger a couple of time
<IdleOne> times*'
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-07
<sebsebseb> Hi
<sebsebseb> What's this?
<IdleOne> sebsebseb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/UbuntuIRCHelpers
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: yeah was about to go there
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: It's not really clear, but I guess it's so me can work together as a team doing support,   helping each other out a bit or something
<IdleOne> sebsebseb: pretty much yes
<sebsebseb> we can, not me can, above
<sebsebseb> so can refer support issues to people in here maybe,  if tried to help, but can't really help them properly?
<sebsebseb> and ask for help when doing support in here?  if it's needed?
<sebsebseb> IdleOne: is that what this channel is about partly?
<arand> Is discussiond of the !factoids also within the scope of this chan or is that for #ubuntu-irc?
 * erUSUL has the opnion that this channel is just redundant and that everything done here can be done in #ubuntu-irc
 * erUSUL added bonus one less channel to join
<arand> And there's also #ubuntu-meta for unanswered questions...
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: I think this channel could be useful,  if it's used as a like  Ubuntu support team channel,  where we can turn to each other for help with support when it's a good idea to
<sebsebseb> no one knows it all
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: i'm not disputing the goals of the channel. i'm saying that what you say can be easily done in #ubuntu-irc there was no need to set up this channel (which is less than a week old) it is redundant
<sebsebseb> we have our areas
<erUSUL> a little tweak in the topic of #ubuntu-irc and an edit in the wiki page and you are done
<sebsebseb> ,but  if we knew what each person was good at when it comes to Ubuntu support,  we would know who to come to for help  with issues,  that we can't support properly/fully our selves in the channel
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: again i'm not disputing the what. i'm disputing the how
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: #ubuntu-irc is the big operators room
<sebsebseb> for all Ubuntu channels
<sebsebseb> offical ones
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: what: coordinate helpers ok! how: set up yet another empty channel with little traffic *not* ok
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: I get the impression from the wiki so far,  that they want to tell people off in here for misusing the bot, instead of pm, or even #ubuntu itself
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: That's about the only thing that made sense to me when it came to reading the wiki page
<sebsebseb> oh and how people who are regular IRC helpers might become community members
<rww> erUSUL: I agree.
<erUSUL> rww: :)
<rww> The purposes of #ubuntu-irc and #ubuntu-irc-helpers seem to me to be mergable, and the two channels' combined traffic seems like it would be reasonable.
<erUSUL> more than reasonable
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: again i'm not against the goals of the channel i'm against have to join a tens of channles just to keep up
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: same here I don't like being in loads and loads of channels either
<erUSUL> the solution to every problem seems to be just create yet another channel. and we can make sense of t later
<erUSUL> too much traffic in #ubuntu? proposed solution ---> just chop it off in three !!!!
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: well I guess #ubuntu should be split into a few more channels, if the user number, who type stuff, not all those idlers,  becomes much bigger
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: I started typing the above before your message
<sebsebseb> oh so many people in #ubuntu people notice that, thing is we never even see most of them type?
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: that just will split knowledge
<rww> There are plenty of good reasons why that's a bad idea. I'll go grab the relevant bug report ;P
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: i for one will have to choose one of the three.
<rww> https://bugs.launchpad.net/empathy/+bug/392799
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,In progress]
<rww> one of the reasons why use of #ubuntu-meta is being encouraged is to catch questions that are missed because of the channel's volume
<sebsebseb> I guess it's since Xchat has #ubuntu as the default channel, if I remember correctly, why there are so many idlers, that we don't see type.
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: Some people are in around 60 channels, and more than one network, but most of us nope.
<erUSUL> sebsebseb: good for them. i can not
<sebsebseb> maybe 60 is quite the exeragation, but there are those people in a lot of channels and more than one network
<sebsebseb> erUSUL: I am just saying, and I woudn't want to do something like that myself
<erUSUL> :)
<sebsebseb> altough maybe one day I will try something like that, just to try :D
<arand> Problem is #ubuntu is great for "simple-medium" questions, but for more advanced questions, I don't feel there's not much response in #ubuntu, and sometimes it's almost more likely to get somewhere in #ubuntu+1 even though it's not related to dev version..
<sebsebseb> arand: sometimes even the basic questions don't get answered in #ubuntu
<sebsebseb> in fact most of the questions being asked in #ubuntu I would consider as being intermediate to advanced
<sebsebseb> basic qustions here and there,  but there are a lot of questions, where the answer is to use quite a few commands or to maybe edit some files
<sebsebseb> then of course the standard comon stuff,  pulse audio, wireless,  ATI graphics card issues
<arand> ...dual monitors, grub...
<sebsebseb> yep and those two
<sebsebseb> altough
<sebsebseb> I don't think many average computer users, have a dual monitor
<sebsebseb> dual monitor issues aren't that common or I am missing it quite a lot or something
<sebsebseb> another issue with #ubuntu is that it's  rather busy for new users
<sebsebseb> hence one reason why quite a lot of people want to pm for example
<sebsebseb> sometimes not that much going on in there, but most of the time there is
<arand> What I just came to think of now is that it would be very sweet if "helpers" would have access to a set of "filter" scripts so one could easily say "I can help in the categories: grub, dual-booting and general" And then only get those questions...
<sebsebseb> so many people in there
<sebsebseb> ,but we have regular helpers, and those who don't do it that often
<sebsebseb> can't easilly find out what everyone is good at who wants to help in there I guess,   and no not say a form on say Launchpad will be good enough for example, since not everyone who uses Ubuntu IRC want's to use Launchpad
<sebsebseb> a form yeah where people can fill in saying what they want to do.  Even if it was on a website, not everyone who wants to help in #ubuntu would want to fill it in I expect.
<sebsebseb> However regular helpers who care enough about things, are likely to come to a channel such as this one I expect,  and here we can ask each other what we can help with,  and  turn to each other for help at times, when doing support in #ubuntu  Well those are my suggestions for this channel
<rww> sebsebseb: /meta metabot help subscribe
<rww> /msg, not /meta
<sebsebseb> rww: uhmm?
<rww> sebsebseb: Are you familiar with #ubuntu-meta and metabot?
<sebsebseb> rww: no
<sebsebseb> I know it exists, but don't really know about it. I decided to join  the channel again  a bit after joining this one
<sebsebseb> was going to check out the wiki
<rww> sebsebseb: /join #ubuntu-meta, idle in there for a while. It's pretty self-explanatory. If you do /msg metabot help, it'll give you a list of commands, one of which is the ability to subscribe to a particular category.
<sebsebseb> rww: oh
<sebsebseb> right, but that channel is for only un answered questions I think
<rww> sebsebseb: you can set a timeout for how long they have to be unanswered before it notifies you.
<rww> of course, it's not a substitute for sitting in #ubuntu and paying attention, it's a supplement that catches missed questions
<sebsebseb> rww: got a description of something, but not sure how to set whatever up
<sebsebseb> rww: Well I got it to tell me the Available categories
<rww> sebsebseb: for example, if you wanted to get notified of package-category questions 30 seconds after they were asked, you'd do /msg metabot subscribe package privmsg 30
<sebsebseb> rww: right so, it can pm me what's also in the channel, for my choosen cateogire/s ?
<rww> sebsebseb: The channel's set to notify after about five minutes. So if you did the above, you'd get a PM before it showed up in the channel. And yeah, it'd be only for the categories you set.
<sebsebseb> oh right
<sebsebseb> and 30 seconds is just an example, I could do 10 seconds or even 1 second?
<rww> I assume so, yeah.
<sebsebseb> ok could be a good idea,  don't want to waste time watching the channel quite a lot, like I have done in the past, and I only tend to help with certain basic areas
<sebsebseb> rww: well thanks I guess
<rww> sebsebseb: no problem, glad I could be of help
<IdleOne> rww: that was the best explanation on how to use metabot. thank you!
<geli> hello
<rww> hello
<guntbert> geli: this is no support channel - please use #ubuntu
<geli> oh sorry
<ThatGuy-_-_> I cant find the wallpaper I downloaded, in order to set it to slideshow
<erUSUL> ThatGuy-_-_: support is in #ubuntu
<ThatGuy-_-_> thx
<jussi01> arand: generally I would say -installer, but if someone says nonfree its no big deal
<arand> jussi01: you know if is it supposed to be removed at some point or are plans to always keep it there?
<jussi01> arand: I imagine itll disappear at some point, probably after Lucid Id guess, but Im not certain
 * jussi01 waves to cjohnston
<cjohnston> o/
<cjohnston> :-)
 * cjohnston noticed that the discussion regarding changes in -ops had died down... (allowing/not allowing people in)
<IdleOne> Does that mean the issue is resolved?
<jussi01> cjohnston: we are all thinking about it.
<jussi01> no
<cjohnston> ya..
<cjohnston> still nothing new.. I wont be at the meeting Saturday :-(
<IdleOne> what does the general consensus seem to be at this point?
<cjohnston> -1 from what i can tell...
<cjohnston> but thats completely my observation
<IdleOne> yeah, understood
<IdleOne> I like the moderated/only certain approved users option
<IdleOne> but then that will create division in the community so not the best solution
<jussi01> Im a big fan of the mirror channel tbh. allows people to see instantly whats going on, but not interfere with the process
<IdleOne> yeah that sounds good also
<IdleOne> but I fear that a channel like that will attract trolls requiring another channel for the ops to have to moderate heavily
<IdleOne> unless it is set to +m
<christonapushbik> i need help pls!!!
<christonapushbik> i install kubuntu yesterday
<IdleOne> christonapushbik: with?
<IdleOne> christonapushbik: type /join #kubuntu and ask your question, someone will help if they can.
<christonapushbik> and after a day of searching internet i am hardly being able to connect internet
<christonapushbik> i want to run firefox
<christonapushbik> but dunno how it can b done :|
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-08
<noel_> khjsjkgfs
<cjohnston> mornin
<jussi01> cjohnston: have you any python skills?
<cjohnston> I can spell it and i have three books so i can learn it
<cjohnston> and a desire
<cjohnston> heh
<jussi01> ahh, that sounds perfect :D
<tsimpson> fwiw, #ubuntu-irc and this channel _do_ have different purposes, this channels is for discussion/interaction for/with the people giving support in channels, #ubuntu-irc is for operator support
<tsimpson> discussion of how support is going in #ubuntu would be offtopic in -irc, but not here
<tsimpson> -irc can and should be used more, but not for the same purpose of this channel
<rww> tsimpson: In my scrollback for this channel, I see stuff that would fit fine in #ubuntu-offtopic, meta-discussion about this channel (that wouldn't exist if we didn't have it), multiple support questions that belong in #ubuntu, and a discussion of Metabot. It's my (of course, less informed than some) opinion that the purpose of #ubuntu-irc could be expanded somewhat without damaging its
<rww> usefulness.
<tsimpson> sure, but this is still a new channel
<tsimpson> the main purpose if it is for co-ordination for the support team
<tsimpson> which would not be useful in -irc and probably disrupted in -ot
<rww> I've been helping on and off in #ubuntu for about a year. I can't remember a time when I've wished there was a channel for coordinating #ubuntu support because I needed something that couldn't be dealt with in -ot or -ops.
<erUSUL> i said it here and in the mailing list. imho having both -irc and this channel is duplication for no gain. a single channel is enough
<rww> I understand that the channel is new, but it seems that thusfar, there doesn't seem to be a particularly large demand for it from others, either.
<erUSUL> but that's just imho
<jussi01> A channel doesnt get its purpose working in a week or 2, it takes sometime more.
<rww> Was this channel created because of community demand for it? Or because there's a general view that it's needed? Or because someone decided "maybe this would be a cool idea"?
<rww> (I'm not a neophobe, the last alternative is valid, I'm just curious)
<erUSUL> anyway it is comforting to see that the feedback others (the potencial users of both channels being an op in #ubuntu-es and perhaps the oldest helpper of #ubuntu) and me are giving is just redirected to /dev/null
<jussi01> erUSUL: no, feedback isnt getting redirected to dev/null, its just we want to explain to you the reasons we feel differently.
<erUSUL> jussi01: i've heard not a single reason why merging the two channels would be such a bad idea
<erUSUL> jussi01: you create the channel. decree what is offtopic in what channel. disregard any complain just saying this is offtopic here this is offtopic there ?
<tsimpson> the channels serve different purposes
<tsimpson> -irc is not for support co-ordination, -irc-helps is not for operator issues
<erUSUL> tsimpson: ok; running again in circles. i know what you want the channels to be for. Again what is so wrong about having a channel for support co-ordination *and* for loco operators issues. too much traffic? you must be jocking
<rww> Bot discussion and operator issues are different issues, we should create #ubuntu-bot-support for dealing with ubottu clones. Neither is getting cloaks, we need #ubuntu-cloaks. Arguing that #ubuntu-irc is only for operator issues is disingenous, because its scope can easily be changed.
<tsimpson> erUSUL: because things get confused, operator issues and support issues going on at the same time
<erUSUL> tsimpson: maybe you are worried about an unmanegable topic size XXDD
<tsimpson> the support team deserve a channel, rather than shoving them into another channel
<tsimpson> rww: and we do have #ubuntu-bots, #ubuntu-bots-team and #ubuntu-bots-devel
<tsimpson> and we can always move cloak requests to #ubuntu-irc-council
<tsimpson> as they are the only ones who can deal with cloak requests
<erUSUL> ok is clear that a decission has been made by the ones that can make it. i wont waste more time in this
<erUSUL> i do not see any helper here anyway
<tsimpson> this channel is new, we'll bring more people here
<rww> Again, as someone who would presumably be part of that support team, I haven't personally ever seen a need for a channel, and haven't seen others expressing the need for one.
<rww> tsimpson: Exactly, you can change #ubuntu-irc's scope one way, and you can change it the other way too. That's my point :)
<tsimpson> when supporting >1000 people, you don't think co-ordination is needed?
<tsimpson> more than 1000 in multiple channels
<jussi01> this channel isnt just for #ubuntu
<rww> tsimpson: Not that I've seen, no. The support "team" is composed of individuals, the majority of which are clued in to what to do. Those that aren't generally either learn quickly (before they'd find this channel, probably) or get pointed the right way in PM.
<tsimpson> you could apply that method to the motu, most would know what to do, those that don't learn quickly. but having a channel for co-ordination makes things much easier
<tsimpson> being an active support giver will be one way to get an ubuntu membership, so we do need to monitor supporters more
 * erUSUL Â¬.Â¬
<rww> tsimpson: The barrier to entry for MOTU is much higher than the barrier to entry for supporting in #ubuntu.
<tsimpson> rww: not really, just knowledge
<tsimpson> and having a place where people can ask support-specific questions (not support questions), helps people become better support givers and helps to give people a sense of community
<tsimpson> they won't just be a bunch of separate individuals, who happen to give support. they'll be a group who can interact with each other and discuss issues that matter to them
<rww> tsimpson: Yes, MOTU involves a lot more knowledge, which is not gained through ordinary usage of Ubuntu like most support knowledge is, and which is highly technical and specific in nature.
<rww> tsimpson: I'm not sure that answering questions is complicated enough to require support-specific questions. If you know the answer to a question, you answer it. If you don't, you leave it for someone else. If nobody answers it, Metabot does a reasonable job of catching that.
<rww> If I wanted a sense of community, that's what #ubuntu-offtopic is for.
<tsimpson> some people are better MOTUs than others, they share that knowledge and experience and everyone benefits
<tsimpson> the same can be for people who give support
<rww> well, apart for being a dumping ground for stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere. which is only going to get worse by moving meta-support discussion from it.
<rww> tsimpson: What knowledge and experience? I can measure the number of things I'd tell a potential #ubuntu person on one hand, and apart from #ubuntu-meta, they're all easily discoverable through watching #ubuntu for a couple of hours.
<tsimpson> giving support in our channels is as valuable and substantial a contribution as packaging/developing, why should they be shoved into another channel and sidelined?
<rww> Because packaging and developing require much more coordination than support does.
<tsimpson> and the packaging and development teams have lots of channels
<tsimpson> we're only creating one
<jussi01> we are not creating #kubuntu-irc-helpers, #xubuntu-irc-helpers etc
<rww> And I don't think it's necessary. You disagree, and I don't think we're going to change each others' minds, because this is based on perceptions, not facts.
<tsimpson> time will tell if it will work or not
<rww> indeed
<jussi01> Thing is, I do beleive the support can be done better than it is being done now.. this channel is aimed at making it better
<rww> jussi01: What's the status of this channel, anyway? The wiki page on it has UNAPPROVED DRAFT in huge letters, it doesn't appear to have been discussed on ubuntu-irc, and the IRC Council agenda is backlogged to say the least. Is it going to be discussed at some point before it's "approved", or did you (plural) decide to just create it now and be done with it?
<rww> s/discussed on/discussed beforehand on/, I guess :)
<jussi01> rww: the channel is approved, the wiki page isnt finished yeat, hence unapproved
<rww> jussi01: makes sense. thanks for clarifying :)
<jussi01> :)
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-09
<valentin_> help
<DJones> valentin_: What do you need help with, the main support channel for ubuntu is #ubuntu, that will be the best place to ask a support question
<Pici> Anyone even know what PHY support even is?
<bazhang> probably aircrack
<bazhang> nope I was wrong
<bazhang> its channel switching mode
 * genii makes more coffee
<MenZa> Mmm, coffee.
<MenZa> Driving the Ubuntu cogs since 2004!
 * genii sips his decaf 
 * DJones wonders how many coffee pots genii has worn out on irc
<genii> Heh, probably quite a few. Used to also do the same schtick on telnet in the early 90s
<DJones> I think you drinking coffee was one of the first things i remember about the ubuntu community :)
<genii> Ironically, in 2004 I was at a computer show here in Toronto trying to find a coffee booth when I wandered into the Ubuntu area of the show by mistake and they handed me a 4.10 CD
<DJones> Sounds like good fortune
<genii> They had a coffee-coloured thing goin on so I gravitated ... ;)
<rww> Weird. It appears I'm only getting about half of the emails sent to ubuntu-irc.
<genii> rww: I found a bunch of them in my "Junk" folder because some ppl are sending from subdomain names that the spam-catcher thinks aren't valid
<rww> Hmm, that could be it. Perhaps I need to start paying more attention before hitting the "Delete all Spam" button
<celthunder> lol
<celthunder> you found ubuntu because of the coffee things?  personally i'm a bit confused as to why everythings referred to like coffee on the forums..mt dew and other drinks offer much more energy
<genii> A hot mug of mountain dew just isn't the same.... ;)
<celthunder> true
<celthunder> coffee makes me sick though
 * charlie-tca thinks color is different too
<celthunder> maybe that's why i'm a bit confused of it
<celthunder> also true ...ubuntu default themes are sort of brownish themeed
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-10
<MenZa> rww: Thanks for the heads-up
 * MenZa goes to check Junk
<MenZa> Nothing here.
<rww> MenZa: I ended up checking against the mbox archive on the website to read the ones I'm missing
<MenZa> Ah
<rww> conversation makes more sense when LjL doesn't look like he's talking to himself.
<MenZa> haha
<MenZa> He does that all the time, though!
<MenZa> Hmm, can anyone think of a way a default-configured Apache on Ubuntu would allow to serve files from /? I've been grumbling about this last night since a user suggested to me in #u that it did
<MenZa> vhosts revealed nothing, so I shrugged it off
<rww> MenZa: so example.com/ was mapped to / ?
<MenZa> I think what he said was including ./file.ext in a HTML document tried to grab /file.ext from the file system
 * MenZa huggles rww 
<MenZa> I think jussi's box died :(
<rww> There go the Quassel users~!
<rww> MenZa: Anyway. That's weird and I've never seen it happen in my time using Apache
<MenZa> Same.
<MenZa> harro maco
<czajkowski> kklimonda: aloha
<kklimonda> hey czajkowski
<czajkowski> jussi01: ping
<czajkowski> kklimonda: you can always ask for help in here and see if someone can help you
 * MenZa waves to kklimonda, czajkowski 
<kklimonda> czajkowski, will do in a moment :)
<czajkowski> kklimonda: grand
<kklimonda> so - there is a problem with #ubuntu-pl channel that is an official Polish support channel for Ubuntu users. I can't actually remember the time when it was a place where new users could "safely" ask lame and stupid question and not be harassed (making fun of their age, the way they speak or their linux knowledge in general - rm -rf / and similar jokes aren't something not heard of) but at least before we had some operators who bann
<kklimonda> ed the worst cases. When I've discussed this matter a year ago with channel operator I've actually had some grand plans like creating #ubuntu-pl-chat for all "oldtimers" to chat about Arch Linux and other topics that aren't related to Ubuntu and start or "fighting" with all trolls and people who harass others. Owner's anwer (backed by the most active operator at that time) was that a) there is nothing that can be done about trolls
<kklimonda> because they keep changing their nicks and b) no reason to create another channel for offtopic discussion because old users are important and why should they change channel.
<kklimonda> fast forward one year and now I don't care about offtopic discussions anymore but we still have users harassing other users and normal trolls who are, well, just trolling. Also we have only two people who are on channel access list and their response time is really slow (actually I couldn't get in touch with them for the last 4 days). I've send another email to the channel owner but even if he takes some action the damage has alrea
<kklimonda> dy be done. There aren't many people left on the channel who actively help others, there is still a possibility that if we start banning those more burdensome users they start fighting us back (with shells and registered names - I've been told that it was the case in the past).
<kklimonda> So I guess my question is - how to deal with people who are constantly harassing others and use various means to do that?
<kklimonda> s/to do that/to avoid being banned/
<jussi01> kklimonda: hi
<kklimonda> hey jussi01
<jussi01> kklimonda: as a non operator you can catalyse (http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml) however, if there is a problem with the code of conduct not being followed, and the operators and founder of the channel have been consulted but are not acting, then you need to take it to the ircc directly.
<jussi01> kklimonda: the ircc has its own channel if you need immediate help (#ubuntu-irc-council) or if it is a long term situation then its better you send us an email.
<jussi01> !ircc
<ubottu> The Ubuntu IRC Council is the team governance council for the the Ubuntu IRC channels on the freenode network - For serious inquiries please join #ubuntu-irc-council - See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil
<kklimonda> jussi01, ok, thanks - I'm going to see what response I get from channel owner and act on it.
<jussi01> kklimonda: but please just remind him or her that all ubuntu channels need to follow the CoC. ALso, if the channel owner is contactable and helpful, adding the UbuntuIrcCouncil nick to the access list is recomended
<jussi01> kklimonda: I would also really recomend creating #ubuntu-pl-offtopic - its not hard to do and will create a place where people can go just to chatter, allowing better support to happen. Many loco's do this already.
<czajkowski> kklimonda: hope this helps, and if I can help on the other matters you know how to get a hold of me
 * genii makes a fresh pot of coffee
<Guest72990> hello
 * charlie-tca thanks genii 
<genii> charlie-tca: Anytime :)
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-12
<BluesKaj> helpers hangout eh ?
<Pici> yah
<Pici> bye
 * genii makes more coffee
<BluesKaj> not much action here :P
 * jussi01 waves
<BluesKaj> hi jussi01 :)
 * jussi01 nods tiredly
<jcordeiro> hi there
<jcordeiro> i have an "hardware detection" question
<jcordeiro> is this the right place to ask?
<ZykoticK9> jcordeiro, ask in regular #ubuntu
<jcordeiro> tnx
<Pershian007> hi
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-13
<Finesse|cathep> hi
<Finesse|cathep> i have a question
<tsimpson> remember, this is not a support channel
 * genii sips
 * IdleOne asks where is the coffee pot?
 * genii uncloaks the coffee pot, fixes IdleOne a mug
<ZykoticK9> Flannel, you and scunizi just missed an opportunity to use this channel for what i believe it is for :)
<Flannel> ZykoticK9: for support with irssi?  No, that's #ubuntu
<ZykoticK9> Flannel, i just mean helper to helper support - wouldn't that count?
<Flannel> ZykoticK9: No, that's irssi support, just because we both happen to help doesnt mean anything.  *Ideally* everyone in #ubuntu would be a helper at some point
<rww> I thought this channel was for talking about this channel.
<ZykoticK9> rww, that pretty much seem to be what it's for - i chuckled when i read you post :)
<rww> But yeah, to be srs, as far as I know this channel is for helping with helping and helping helpers help, not helping helpers in general :)
<ZykoticK9> OH so that what this channel is for.  clears everything up thanks ;)
 * genii tries to tally up how many "help" in the above
<genii> tsimpson: Alive?
<tsimpson> genii: yep
<genii>  /msg tsimpson I'm not sure what the current policy on idlers is there also although /topic still mentions it
<genii> Bah
<tsimpson> heh, you mean in -ops?
<genii> Yeah
<tsimpson> the policy currently remains unchanged
<genii> The user is currently forwarded there due to their part message of "NIGGAS" etc
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-15
<novarg> Hi everyone. Just upgraded to kde 4.4 and have a problem with kopete. It not sending yahoo messages. From my side it looks like message was send but no ones from recipient see my messages. Can you help me, maybe point where i can find solution?
<novarg> thanks in advance
<novarg> sorry, missed channel :(
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-16
<semitones_tea> hey, would anybody mind looking over my revision of the wiki for the flash page? The old version only had instructions for 9.04, so I re-wrote it to be for 9.10 as well
<semitones_tea> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash
<semitones_tea> I'm just not sure that installing flash is this simple
<rww> semitones_tea: it is for 32-bit. There's a separate page for 64-bit flash with more convoluted instructions
<rww> !flash64
<ubottu> You can run Flash, Real, and Java plugins in AMD64 bit computers with Firefox. see the steps to follow at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxAMD64FlashJava
<semitones_tea> Alright -- but are the instructions on the 32 bit page complete as they are?
<rww> yes
<semitones_tea> Awesome!
<semitones_tea> I contributed
<rww> yay, rwwilco left #ubuntu. My highlight log was going crazy >.>
<jussi01> rww: lol
<DasEi> some time ago I googled around for more grounded knowledge on ubuntu, found amongst specific (theme-based) lecture the ucp-program, along with a copy of ucp1 I got for free; is there a way to gather the ucp2 and so on stuff from someone ? or other suggestions for free self studies ?
<Ticko> can i get support here?
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-17
<shannon> can anyone help me install tiled on my ubuntu to where i can use it and not just look at the files
<ikonia> shannon: if you join #ubuntu people can support and help you
<shannon> i asked the same question and it was like i never exist
<rww> They already are in there. I assume they found their way here through the undetailed mention of this channel in #ubuntu's /topic.
<rww> ubottu: patience
<ubottu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. You can search https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org while you wait.
<ikonia> shannon: people are busy and don't always see the question, or know the answer. If you sit tight in there and repeat the question ever say 10 minutes someone will hopefully respond
<shannon> yes but tiled is a program for mappers and on the site i have this new peace of crap called tile qt
<shannon> and it want let me save my maps as wlk files
<tsimpson> shannon: this is not a support channel
<bazhang> o/
<guntbert> hi again
<guntbert> I attempted to create a factoid (like tellushere, or so ) but never came around
<bazhang> to avoid PM?
<bazhang> ah the ubuntuforums issue
<DJones> People seem to expect instant answers from the forums, when they don't get them, then they come to IRC
<bazhang> true; I think what he is referring to is the ubuntuforums.org post <--- help with this plz questions
<bazhang> ie not a detail at all, just the link
<DJones> true, its more worrying when they don't use known ubuntuforums and its just a random forum, after the link spam problems recently, how many people would consider clicking to check the link
<bazhang> yep especially the link from user 'mao' a bit earlier
<DJones> There was somebody asking whether a website they linked was working earlier, maybe I'm overly paranoid, but i just put the link into downforeveryoneorjustme rather than test it myself
<bazhang> that was the exploit
<DJones> I must have missed the 'mao' links, was that in the last couple of hours, been out fixing my father-in-laws broadband for a while
<DJones> yes, just did lastlog, i was getting my fingers dirty then
<rww> This is why NoScript (or equivalent) is a good idea ;P
<bazhang> true :)
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-19
<Iv4nb> Can somebody tell me why my chanel for LoCo is not on freenode list of chanels
<Iv4nb> chanel is : #ubuntu-me
<DJones> Iv4nb: Which list of freenode channels do you mean?
<Iv4nb> the one U can get from freenode server , where all chanels are listed
<guntbert> Iv4nb: you mean /list ? thats not reliable, you search with /msg alis list *name*
<Iv4nb> so this should be more reliable
<Iv4nb> >alis< LIST ubuntu
<Iv4nb> -alis- Returning maximum of 60 channel names matching 'ubuntu'
<Iv4nb> -alis- End of output
<Iv4nb> I got nothing for ubuntu
<nhandler> Iv4nb: /msg alis list *ubuntu*
<guntbert> Iv4nb: mind the * (*ubuntu*)
<guntbert> Iv4nb: and the you might want to use -min ..., or -skip ...
<guntbert> *then
<Iv4nb> ok . its ok than . sry for disturbing
<Iv4nb> tnx
<guntbert> Iv4nb: no problem :-)
 * genii makes more coffee
<phantomgraph> Ello all, anyone around?
<guntbert> phantomgraph: if you are looking for help, this is the wrong channel - please sea /topic
<phantomgraph> Well I am looking for help, but just what channel to get it from... so may be I can suggest a new channel or something cause I've been up and haven't even got a acknowledgement.
<phantomgraph> I'm not sure if this is the right channel, so please direct me to the correct one if this is not appropriate. I need some help figuring out why when I installed the latest CUPS update fragged all my windows machines to see the print server I set up on my Linux Box.
 * phantomgraph cross posted to #ubuntu-meta
<rww> phantomgraph: #ubuntu-irc-helpers and #ubuntu-meta aren't support channels. For support questions, use #ubuntu.
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-20
<ubuntu_> hey guys, can anyone help me?
<bazhang> ubuntu_, with what
<ubuntu_> okay i installed a package
<ubuntu_> one sec ill tell you what it is
<bazhang> Ubuntu OS support in #ubuntu not here
<IdleOne> ubuntu_: type /join #ubuntu and ask your question, someone will surely be glad to help if they can. also make sure not to use the enter key to often
<ubuntu_> I installed a GDM theme on my ubuntu 9.10 and it removed the one I had preinstalled, now the gui wont load, im stuck in the command line mode
 * genii smooches flunkyhat
<kidd_> hi all
<kidd_> who wants a challenge?
<bazhang> support in #ubuntu kidd_
<IdleOne> Just a suggestion but I think when reffering people to #ubuntu we need to be a little less short with our answers. We have to remember most user who come in here looking for support are often new to irc and new to ubuntu.
<IdleOne> the whole "catch more flies with hunny" thing :)
<kidd_> im just very confused about this rpoblem and no one on kubuntu is helping, and i saw a link to kubuntu helpers so ithought this is where they "help2 ppl
<IdleOne> kidd_: what problem are you having?
<kidd_> thanks for asking idleone, my eth01 port works when connected straight through to my dsl modem but it says in active when plugged in to my router, i cant get no ip address or start the port
<kidd_> i cant use my wifi card cos it kills my install and i have to re install
<kidd_> hmmph
<IdleOne> kidd_: ok, over my head. try asking in #ubuntu someone there should be able to help.
<IdleOne> be patient :)
<kidd_> no one wants to help me :(
<kidd_> thankyou though
<IdleOne> I don't think that nobody wants to help but it could be that nobody in there knows the answer right now
<kidd_> im determined to stick with kubuntu but its litle problems what are annoying me
<IdleOne> keep asking from time to time
<IdleOne> but #ubuntu or #kubuntu are the correct places to ask for support.
<kidd_> point taken
<kidd_> whats this channel for then?
<cjohnston> kidd_: the topic explains what this channel is for.
<kidd_> to help the helpers
<kidd_> so this would imply that you are good enough to help the helpers? yes?
<bazhang> of course
<kidd_> but.....they cant help me
<cjohnston> kidd_: not in tech support aspects necessarally
<cjohnston> help the helpers in an irc aspect
<kidd_> i dont understand?
<kidd_> hold there hands whilst they type?
<kidd_> pat em on the back when they done good?
<cjohnston> if a helper has a question about how to do something on irc, or how to handle an issue in a channel or something like that
<kidd_> so your mods not helpers
<kidd_> tis very mis leading
<cjohnston> no it isnt..
<cjohnston> for people who help out in other channels, this channel is for them needing help...
<cjohnston> not support...
<cjohnston> but help
<kidd_> if im in a chatroom, and i have an issue i tell the mod, if a helper needs assistance, or "help" they come to you
<cjohnston> if thats how you want to look at it then sure
<kidd_> so ur a mod
<cjohnston> nope
<cjohnston> and we dont have mods.. we have ops..
<kidd_> my bad, well thankyou for helping me in the manner which you did,
<kidd_> sorry it couldnt have had a better output
<cjohnston> what type of output do you want? someone to fix your problem?
<kidd_> have a nice day/evening where ever you all are
<cjohnston> there are plenty of ways to go get help... there are support channels on IRC, theres the forums, theres the LP answers, google...
<cjohnston> tons of different options
<cjohnston> this channel happens to not be a support channel, as stated in the topic
<kidd_> there is many options but me being stupid assumed the helpers of the helpers would know more than the helpers and thus, be able to help me more but nope. just ops isntead
<kidd_> thankyou for your time though
<bazhang> np
<cjohnston> As said... ops dont have to have technical knowledge and be able to provide tech support
<kidd_> :)
<kidd_> can i be an op then?
<IdleOne> not if you ask
<cjohnston> kidd_: take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam?action=show&redirect=IrcTeam
<bazhang> create your own channel
<IdleOne> ops in the ubuntu channels are asked to be ops they don't ask to be an op
<kidd_> can i be a helper to the helper of the helpers?
<IdleOne> kidd_: yes
<kidd_> nice
<IdleOne> you are welcome to idle here and help out where you can
<cjohnston> Since there is no official helper and nothing special that is granted, yes
<kidd_> but this isnt a helping channel, you only help helpers
<kidd_> id rather hsare my technical abilitys with the world
<kidd_> and my typos
<IdleOne> kidd_: then #ubuntu is where you want to share your tech help
<cjohnston> kidd_: then help out in #ubuntu or another support channel
<kidd_> ok, thanks all
<cjohnston> G25
<Sensiva> !factoids
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-irc-helpers's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<kidd_> hi helpers
<kidd_> i have some info for you, you may find it useful
<kidd_> for helping the other helpers
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-22
<ZykoticK9> Does anyone know who to contact about inappropriate questions on answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu ?
<ZykoticK9> Asked in #launchpad and it was suggested I "open a question in launchpad"...
<jussi01> ZykoticK9: actually I dont know... #launchpad would have been my answer :D
<ZykoticK9> jussi01, it got a little traction there - post is still up mind you, unsure if an LP admin has actually seen the post as-of-yet
<ZykoticK9> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/102018
<charlie-tca> ZykoticK9: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<charlie-tca> add a new question on the right side
<ZykoticK9> charlie-tca, thanks - actually I was directed to post to the launchpad proper question section -- but it's been looked after "sort-of", post wasn't removed after someone attempted to answer but the title was at least renamed -- not what I would call satisfactory but that's what's happened.  Thanks for the input however.
<charlie-tca> np. #launchpad tells us to file a question often.
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-24
<pac1> join #ubuntu-meta
<AltrortlA> Hello dears... I got a problem with LAN... (I can't share my LAN connection with Xp to another PC with Kubuntu). KnetworkManager sSays device ETH0 unmanaged. Some tips?
<AltrortlA> Sorry... not the right place
 * jussi01 hugs AltrortlA
<AltrortlA> Hi jussi01... old friend, same problem ... (i got)
<jussi01> AltrortlA: as you noted, not really right place  :)
<AltrortlA> jussi01: Yes, i apologize
<jussi01> AltrortlA: no probs :)
<AltrortlA> jussi01: May you help me?
<jussi01> AltrortlA: here? if iits within the scope of the channel. Im rather distracted atm though
<AltrortlA> jussi01: thanks the same dear
<cjohnston> jussi01: ping
#ubuntu-irc-helpers 2010-02-27
<Jordan_U> Flannel, How is cat not meant for binary files?

{'channel': 'ubuntu-irc-helpers', 'month': 2}