#ubuntu-website 2009-03-01 <newz2000> ryanakca: yes, but the one without ads is not free, so there may not be much benefit to sharing an account for multiple sites <ryanakca> newz2000: So I might as well just create it under my google account? <newz2000> ryanakca: what are you hoping to do? <ryanakca> Set up the wiki search for the new wiki.kubuntu.org theme... <newz2000> ok, we better do that through the ubuntu account then. But why aren't you using Moin's built in search? <ryanakca> *shrugs*. I asked Matthew East and Dustin Kirkland and they recommended I go for a google search instead. <newz2000> for a normal website I'd probably agree but moin's has some spcial features when searching the wiki <newz2000> why don't you set up an account to test and experiment with. <newz2000> Once you get your search engine configured the way you want you can export the configuration and send it to me and we'll go live with the one from the ubuntu.com account * ryanakca nods #ubuntu-website 2009-03-02 <mdke> newz2000: do you have a way to remove ads from the Google search page? We've been using an ad-affected one for the help.ubuntu.com search engine <mdke> newz2000 / ryanakca - for help.u.c we don't use Moin's built in search because we wanted a single search output which covered both the moin and non-moin part of the site <newz2000> mdke: yes, I do have a solution. It costs money but I'll bet we can justify the expense. I'll look into it at the end of the week (I'm setting an appointment in my calendar so I don't forget about it) <mdke> newz2000: that's fine thanks #ubuntu-website 2009-03-03 <ligemeget> sup? <ligemeget> Anyone here from Ubuntu Wanted? #ubuntu-website 2009-03-04 <LaserJock> newz2000: ping <newz2000> hey LaserJock <LaserJock> newz2000: how do I get corrections on ubuntu.com/education? can I file a bug or go through you or ...? <newz2000> if it's a 2m fix just send them to me here on IRC <newz2000> Hmm. Just realized that Rich is gone now. I wonder what will happen to that. <LaserJock> yeah <LaserJock> that's my concern <LaserJock> http://www.ubuntu.com/education/management#licence is waaaaay wrong <LaserJock> "All Ubuntu software is released under GPL, which means it is effectively licence free as opposed to free licence. " <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure you guys don't want ubuntu.com saying that <newz2000> Yeah, should be "... released under an open source licesnse which means it's is freely available to use and share." How's that sound? <LaserJock> great if you fix "license" :-) <newz2000> right <LaserJock> the link to that section on ubuntu.com/education also says "License Free" <newz2000> Yeah, I think that's meant in a different light <newz2000> and the context explains it <LaserJock> k <highvoltage> newz2000: are you going to make a bug report for that page that LaserJock told you about or should I? <newz2000> no, it's fixed <newz2000> just submitted <newz2000> it will take a min or two to show live though <newz2000> Hmm. lost the bold, gonna put that back in. <highvoltage> ok thanks <LaserJock> althought it's still not *strictly* true because of Multiverse, but close enough I think <boredandblogging> newz2000: question <newz2000> hey boredandblogging <newz2000> go for it <boredandblogging> newz2000: question about your tweet <boredandblogging> ubuntu.com based on 960 <boredandblogging> is that 960px? <newz2000> there's a css framework called 960 that, coincidentally is 960px wide <boredandblogging> ooh interesting <newz2000> The site will not really look much different except for that <boredandblogging> is the 960px generally accepted width? <newz2000> Yeah, I did some looking and it seems to be <newz2000> I can paste in my findings, it's a few lines long but there's not that many people here... <boredandblogging> yeah, that would be great <newz2000> here it comes <newz2000> abort <newz2000> copy and paste from moin stinks... reformatting <newz2000> Life Hacker Fixed at 1000px wide <newz2000> Apple Fixed at about 980px wide <newz2000> RedHat Fixed at about 760px wide <newz2000> Microsoft Fixed at about 945px wide <newz2000> Novell Fixed at about 950px wide <newz2000> Mozilla Fixed at about 930px wide <newz2000> Ajaxian Fixed at about 940px wide <newz2000> A List Apart Fixed at about 930px wide <newz2000> Yahoo! Fixed at about 970px wide <newz2000> Adobe Fixed at about 1000px wide (except rhs logo is not fixed) <newz2000> 37 Signals Fixed at about 850px wide <newz2000> that's what I have so far <newz2000> I don't often see too many attractive sites that are not fixed-width but I'm collecting data on that too <boredandblogging> very interesting <boredandblogging> i didn't realized so many people used fixed width <newz2000> yeah. Have you heard of "the deck" (an advertising network)? <boredandblogging> yeah, they have a lot of big name sites <newz2000> big name in web and design at least <boredandblogging> right <newz2000> I plan to next look through them to see which are fixed-width. Of the first few I looked at all are. <boredandblogging> they have some real nice sites <boredandblogging> but I will say ze frank's site drives me up the wall <newz2000> ugh. Never been there. <newz2000> I'd have thought that was a link spam site <boredandblogging> he used to do a very good video podcast thing <newz2000> boredandblogging: I'm not actually 100% sold on the 960 thing. I posted that specifically so I could get feedback. <knome> newz2000, simplebits.com <newz2000> knome: is that a 960 site? <knome> newz2000, nope. <knome> newz2000, it's a site of a fluid-width/flexible/bulletproof sites "father" <knome> newz2000, at least he has written two books on the subject... <knome> newz2000, still he has fixed. <newz2000> fixed at 965 or so <knome> i think it's something that's very tightly tied with the content you're going to present. <knome> (being fixed or not) <newz2000> The trend I'm seeing is that sites going for a visual presentation are often fixed. Sites that are filled with content are more likely fluid. <newz2000> wikipedia and scads of blog sites are examples of fluid <knome> true. <knome> also with fluid width you can expect that somebody will see the site as not-so-appealing. <knome> for example very big or very small resoutions <knome> of course min- and max-width can stop that, but IE... <newz2000> yeah, I'm not sure that min and max width fluid sites are worth the extra design effort <newz2000> ubuntu.com (not the homepage) use that now <knome> i think it's really important. <newz2000> creating the graphics for the site is much much harder though. It makes the css and html far more complex <knome> yeah, i know. <knome> you don't want your site to be to wide <knome> because then every content will look bad. <knome> one paragraph per line for example <knome> and if you've reserved and designed some amount of vertical space to be used by an element, that will be largely different with "normal" resolution and big resolution <newz2000> I'm pretty much sold on fixed-width for ubuntu.com but I'm not yet sold on the actual width to use. <knome> supposedly 1024 is the "standard minimum resolution" anyway <newz2000> 1024 and 1280 width's account for most of the traffic to ubuntu.com <knome> then just substract the width of scrollbars. <knome> i usually go with 990 <newz2000> google analytics however doesn't say what people's browse widths are. A lot of people like to have a sidebar open or two windows side-by-side. <knome> true. <knome> 770 is the absolute minimum i'm willing to with any site ususally <newz2000> yeah, that's too narrow <newz2000> lately I've been using about 850 or so <knome> if there is no good rationale for supporting smaller screens <newz2000> this 960 framework is getting a lot of buzz and maybe the future for the default drupal theme <knome> there's no advantage for 850 over 900+, because there is no "normal" resolutions betwwen <knome> the only issue is padding in the sides of the actual content <knome> and maybe 50 px can be "reserved" for the browser window being smaller <knome> or max. to 100px <newz2000> my thought process was that if a user has only 800px wide they'd be able to center the screen to cut off the padding and see the content without scrolling <knome> so that about 900 anyway <knome> mmh. <knome> but then you have to make sure you *have* that 50+px padding <newz2000> true <newz2000> I'm not sure that's even worth it though <knome> i think not. <newz2000> if I use 960 which has a content area of 940 and 240px of that is navigation <newz2000> then an 800px wide user could see the content area just fine <knome> if javascript is an option, see this: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2006/01/19/ <newz2000> Ah yes, I've seen that. I'm actually working on a theme like that for my own blog. <knome> yep. <knome> that is worth thinking <knome> because then you could even support 640x480 <knome> it's a lot of extra work but for ubuntu.com i think it might just be worth it. <newz2000> for this iteration of ubuntu.com we won't do that but when we redesign later this year we may. <knome> yeah. <newz2000> This is only a very minor change in order to get us onto drupal 6 and to fix some problems that have been bugging me for the last two years. <knome> i see #ubuntu-website 2009-03-07 <Turl> hey newz2000! <Turl> I think one of your update servers has been compromised :S <newz2000> Turl: hey, what's this? <Turl> newz2000: I'm getting BADSIGN when updating <newz2000> What server are you accessing? <Turl> ar.archive.ubuntu.com <Turl> well, it doesn't appear anymore, maybe a temporal jaunty glitch? <Turl> anyway, it's worth checking <newz2000> Oh, you're on jaunty? <newz2000> yes, If it persists then we'll worry <Turl> ok #ubuntu-website 2009-03-08 <nailora> hey guys, are you responsible for the manpage repository, too? #ubuntu-website 2009-03-09 <thorwil> strange. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners sometimes appears with the attachment lines in place of some of the images. a reload will often fix that, but i had the page reload with no images at all, once #ubuntu-website 2009-03-12 <newz2000> ok, have some news on the countdown banners including the carousel from Pierre. I'll email later on today. First I have to eat. <Turl> newz2000: are they the banners I helped to make? <newz2000> :-) You have to wait to find out <Turl> newz2000: are they some fancy ones with a countdown with cool effects done with mootools? :p * Turl looks for the blog post in which the banners are shown <Turl> newz2000: did Stephane Vergeylen/Jolan Wolter/Daniel Vergeylen do them? that's the ultimate question to know <newz2000> I shouldn't have said anything. Sorry to get you so excited. Wait for the email. It will come in about 2 hours. <newz2000> :-D <Turl> I'm not in the mailing list newz2000 :p <newz2000> You have two hours to join <Turl> link? <newz2000> http://lists.ubuntu.com <Turl> ubuntu-website list, right? <newz2000> correct <Turl> I'm in :p <newz2000> OK, I'm going to get some food. Then I'll come back and tell the results. <Turl> ok <newz2000> ok, sorry but the announcement is going to have to wait until tomorrow so I can confirm some details. #ubuntu-website 2009-03-13 <Mirv> I should probably again hang in here too :) <Turl> newz2000: hi <Turl> newz2000: did you send the email? <newz2000> Sorry, we had a complication and it was stalled but we've cleared it up and I'll send it shortly. <newz2000> My commitment to you is that I will send it before I go to lunch and it's 11:12am now. <Turl> :) <Turl> don't hesitate to ask for help if you can't make the javascript work <Turl> pidgin crash :/ <Turl> newz2000: can you fix my name on the wiki? <Turl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners where it says Emimlio Lopez it should say Emilio LÃ³pez <newz2000> let me try <newz2000> knome: thanks for the compfight suggestion on my blog, that is awesome <newz2000> Turl: updated <Turl> newz2000: thanks <Turl> you didn't choose the animated one. it's a pity :p <newz2000> dd you read the whole email? <newz2000> If we can get Pierre's put together we'll do it too <newz2000> That's the problem with long emails. :-) <Turl> but the animated one isn't pierre's :p <Turl> I mean this one http://www.vergeylen.eu/stephane/index.php?page=banner-for-9-04 <Turl> you don't even mention it <Turl> it's the first one in the wiki <newz2000> oh, pierre's is animated too. <Turl> I'll check it out, have to get the branch <newz2000> I uploaded it... <newz2000> http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/PierreCarousel <Turl> I think it needs better HTML/images, the "ARM support" or "Faster boot" isn't very good :/ <newz2000> Right, we need to make four more images <newz2000> and end with the wheel <Turl> newz2000: which day will be jaunty released? <newz2000> Turl: April 24th <newz2000> sorry, 23rd <newz2000> Thursday <Turl> thanks :) <Turl> newz2000: do you know by chance, if there are 22 days to go? <Turl> I don't want to do maths now :p <newz2000> it's more than 30 <newz2000> it will be 30 days on Tuesday the 24th <newz2000> so 41 days to go <Turl> ok <Turl> newz2000: I'm improving the animated banner for my blog <Turl> http://www.turleando.com.ar/labs/jauntybanner/banner.htm <newz2000> It's slick <newz2000> Have you noticed that in firefox on Ubuntu that the animations of javascript lately tends to be not-so-fluid? <Turl> nope :p it's fluid for me <Turl> but might depend on CPU (mine is a dual core now, so everything is quite fast) <Turl> maybe it's not fluid on my P3 <knome> newz2000, no problem. it took me ages to find it so.. :) <newz2000> Turl: I have a dual core Intel ULV cpu, so kind of under-powered <newz2000> Turl: are you using Ubuntu? <Turl> newz2000: obviously .P <Turl> .p* <Turl> ULV, never heard of them <Turl> mine is a T5800 <newz2000> the ULV are the "ultra low voltage" chips. Mine is 1.2GHz <Turl> oh <newz2000> Long battery life ++ <Turl> mine is 2Ghz, on a laptop too <Turl> my battery lasts 2-3hs, and I think it's 6-cell <newz2000> 5-6 hours (7 if I'm not working hard) w/ 9 cell. It's nice. <Turl> woah <newz2000> But the computer is no multi-media machine <Turl> mine is <newz2000> :-) <Turl> believe it or not, it's a laptop with a subwoofer inside :p <newz2000> oh, nice <Turl> I just have a problem with the touchpad, I sometimes accidentally touch it and do disasters :p <Turl> I need something to disable it clicking while typing or similar <newz2000> There is something that lets you control the touch pad <newz2000> It's easy to use but you have to add one line to your x.org file <newz2000> then it's a graphical tool <newz2000> I think it may be gsynaptics <Turl> I was using a precompiled syndaemon binary <thorwil> newz2000: good 2nd choice ;) oh, and i already have "mental" pictures for the 4 frames <newz2000> awesome! <newz2000> I can't wait to see <thorwil> good night! <newz2000> oh, harrypopof is his handle. I thought that was the rabbit's name. #ubuntu-website 2009-03-15 <thorwil> newz2000: you might want to add a note to the countdown wiki page that the contest is closed #ubuntu-website 2009-03-17 <adamorjames_> Hello? <adamorjames_> I saw a mistake on the website. <adamorjames_> "The Jaunty Jackalope Alpha 6 is the fifth alpha release of Ubuntu 9.04" <adamorjames_> it says fifth <adamorjames_> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/jaunty/alpha6 <qense> really? :P <qense> ping newz2000 Who's responsible for this? <newz2000> :-) Well, I can fix it, if that's what you mean <qense> ok <qense> that would be good <newz2000> we leave those typos in there just to keep you guys on your toes <newz2000> ;-) <newz2000> I was wondering how long it would take for someone to spot that one <newz2000> oh, mongolito404, you're here already! <mongolito404> yep <newz2000> thorwil is working on images to go into the carosel <newz2000> the js/iframe code you've written is pretty good, the only big work needed is going to be: <newz2000> 1. making the changes happen automatically instead of on-click <newz2000> 2. twiddling with the timing of that <newz2000> 3. adding one frame <newz2000> (that's it) <newz2000> mongolito404: is that something you think you'd be able to help with at some point? <mongolito404> That's not a big work, but has I said in private, I can't really work on this before the 20th as I've to prepare moving out of my appartement <newz2000> oh, so you can work now but once the 20th is around you have to be done? <mongolito404> No, I've little time right now and cannot work on it before the 23th <newz2000> ok, I see <knome> where can i see the code? <newz2000> mongolito404: Do you want to try to help finish this off the first part of next week or do you think you'll have a hard time even then? <newz2000> knome: http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/PierreCarousel <mongolito404> The code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~mongolito404/ubuntu-artwork/JauntyCountdown <mongolito404> It's a branch of thorwil's branch <mongolito404> Everything but images is in countdown.html (inline CSS and JavaScript) <newz2000> mongolito404: Do you want to try to help finish this off the first part of next week (23rd/24th) or do you think you'll have a hard time even then? <mongolito404> I can probably get something by the 24th and will do my the meet this deadline. <knome> newz2000, do you still want to allow people navigating by clicks? <newz2000> knome: I don't think it's necessary <knome> newz2000, and should the frames wrap or just end to last? <newz2000> I think a click should just go to the website <knome> ok <newz2000> mongolito404: If you think you can be close I'm cool with that. The banners really should go live by the 26th and if we can get it done by then it's worth waiting for <knome> newz2000, let my JS-codemonkey look at it right away. :) <newz2000> if we get the graphics uploaded on the 23rd it will make finishing the carousel easier because you'll know the full path to the countdown iamge used in the last frame <mongolito404> Ok, I will do my best to be done before the 24th. <knome> mongolito404, you don't necessary have to. :) <mongolito404> I have to go now. <knome> ok see you <newz2000> mongolito404: ok. Check back here when you start to work on it, some other people may want to help you out <newz2000> thaks for what you've done so far! <mongolito404> Ok, I'll try to be here when I work on it. <mongolito404> bye <newz2000> knome: if you do make some contribution to that please make sure to communicate with him so that you guys don't duplicate each other's work * newz2000 hates wasted effort <newz2000> MadsRH: are you around? <newz2000> actually, unping MadsRH, I'm good <knome> newz2000, ok, my js-expert announced he is going to rewrite the code and function as wanted. * thorwil reads <MadsRH> newz2000 -> Yes <thorwil> newz2000: i should manage to have the slideshow images done until friday. i hope you will like a rather abstract take. if not, you need a plan b :) <thorwil> good night! <newz2000> :-) <newz2000> MadsRH: I was just checking out your images but all is OK I think <MadsRH> Ok :) <Ekushey> hi guys <Ekushey> anyone where? <newz2000> hi Ekushey <Ekushey> hi newz2000 :) <Ekushey> newz2000, i have a question: will there be any localized versions of the coundown banners? is it possible? <newz2000> Ekushey: good question <newz2000> my quick answer is "no" but let me ponder for a min. <knome> why not. <newz2000> Translating graphics is hard <knome> if the updating is as simple as it is now... <knome> newz2000, with svg graphics, no * newz2000 raises eyebrows <knome> newz2000, just write a script to modify the svg files texts and export them <knome> newz2000, i did something like this for the xubuntu jaunty countdown banner already <knome> newz2000, though not localisation but... same idea <newz2000> ah, but how do you export a png from the SVG automatically? <Ekushey> after then banner design is chosen (i've been following on the mailing list) maybe the loco teams could create the localized versions out of it? <knome> newz2000, inkscape --export-png=FILENAME ... <newz2000> ah, I did not know you could do that from a script <knome> newz2000, of course you have to export from the *modified* svg but.. <Ekushey> the banners can be created manually, making 30-31 wouldn't be a problem <knome> Ekushey, there's no reason why you couldn't localise them. <Ekushey> knome, so we need to host them ourselves? <newz2000> Ekushey: I can host them i fyou like <newz2000> that's no problem <Ekushey> newz2000, oh ok, that would be nice <newz2000> I'm going to guess that MadsRH used the GIMP to make the calendar one (based on the font hinting) which might change the effort to localize <knome> right... <knome> but that doesn't have much text, right? <newz2000> "days to go" <newz2000> Thorwill used blender to render his <knome> right... <knome> right. <knome> so that does change the effort, totally. <newz2000> Ekushey: I'd see if Mads can share the source code for his image. If hosting the media is all that is needed I'm happy to do it. <newz2000> Thorwill's source is already included but I don't know how he built his. He'd have to explain it. (which would be intresting to know) <knome> yeah, why not. <Ekushey> newz2000, great, i'll share thing with my team mates <Ekushey> there are a lot of bengali sites/blogs/forums who use the banner, and since all the content on their sites are in bengali they want bengali version of the counter too <Ekushey> thank you newz2000 and knome <newz2000> any time Ekushey <knome> Ekushey, no problem. :) <Ekushey> :) <MadsRH> newz2000 -> used Photoshop - sorry :-X <newz2000> doh! <newz2000> :-D <Volans> Hi all :) <knome> newz2000, you'll have the carousel in a minute. <newz2000> knome: ok <knome> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/carousel.html <newz2000> knome: something odd with that... it's not as smooth <newz2000> kind of jerky <knome> really? <newz2000> well, not consistently <knome> oh, i see what you mean <newz2000> it switches from teal to magenta instantly and then without delay the blue slides in <knome> yes, you can adjust the time between slides. <knome> *per slide* <newz2000> I need to call it a day, I will leave it open and check it out more closely tomorrow. <newz2000> Thanks for jumping on it. :-) <knome> yeah. <knome> we'll do some improvements for it. <knome> what's your email? <newz2000> craighoward@example.net <knome> ok, i'll send you email if we get something miraculous done. * newz2000 can't wait <newz2000> ttyl <knome> yeah. the codemonkey went reading mootools source.. :P <knome> see you! #ubuntu-website 2009-03-18 <newz2000> Hi thorwil, thanks for updating your images on the wiki <newz2000> also, I wanted to say that for the animated countdown the cloud frame is not necessary, though if you've done it we can still include it. <newz2000> having just four frames, desktop, server, netbook, countdown will be just fine <thorwil> hi! <thorwil> i actually have desktop and laptop ... as the desktop image is clearly about stationary use <thorwil> newz2000: should it be "in the cloud" or "on the cloud"? <newz2000> if you've not done it, then I'd just leave it out <newz2000> we're not going to be including it in some other complimentary material we were going to create <thorwil> it exists but isn't finished <newz2000> "in the..." is more correct if you really want it in, but it's ok to leave it out * thorwil switches to fullscreen blender <Turl> newz2000: hi <newz2000> hi Turl <Turl> again getting the hash error on synaptic :S <Turl> Inpossible to get http://www.las.ic.unicamp.br/pub/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/universe/source/Sources.bz2 Hash sum differs <Turl> that's the error <newz2000> just wait it out. You can report it in #canonical-sysadmins if you like <Turl> I'll try a different mirror <Turl> btw, that channel is empty <Turl> the other mirror works fine, it seems this one has problems rsyncing or something <newz2000> it happens some times. They usually get caught within a few hours and de-listed <jpds> Mirrors stuff should go to #ubuntu-mirrors. <jpds> But the mirror admin may not be there, so it's best to email whoever runs the mirror. #ubuntu-website 2009-03-19 <joe-chat> Hi is anyone out there? <joe-chat> I am new to Ubuntu and am looking for installation help. I don't know if this is the correct chat room. <newz2000> mdke: around? re: search on help.ubuntu.com <newz2000> I wonder if we could just re-use the search engine on search.ubuntu.com. I set up a filter so that a person can limit their search results to just documentation. <newz2000> Hi thorwil <thorwil> hi newz2000 <newz2000> I have some feedback for you <newz2000> do you have a min? <thorwil> i'll brb, then i will <newz2000> ok <thorwil> newz2000: back <newz2000> hey thorwil <newz2000> funny story for you... <newz2000> so you know how sometimes you give a person two pieces of art to consider and you're sure they're going to pick A because its' the obvious choice but instead they pick B? <newz2000> Well, regarding the countdown banner we want the one with the coloured logo. :-) <thorwil> some designers use tricks like less nice backgrounds to make things like that less likely :) <newz2000> sorry <newz2000> They're asking for the logo text to be white <thorwil> who's they? <newz2000> I've not seen the artwork in question but I guess this is going to make it very harmonious with the cd covers <newz2000> sorry, I went to Julian, design lead, and Kat, corporate identity <newz2000> They have to sign off on anything that is deemed "official" <newz2000> They both liked your work <thorwil> i ask because i wondered if it could be escalated <newz2000> There's no one higher that you'd want to talk to. :-) <thorwil> newz2000: colored logo and white logo text is so awful i have to consider to withdraw my work <newz2000> oh, please don't <newz2000> I know it's a compromise but it really is great and it's well liked <thorwil> it leads to a disconnection. i would have a problem putting it into my portfolio like that <knome> i agree with thorwil <knome> white text on that banner wouldn't look good. <newz2000> thorwil: have you met Julian yet? <knome> it might work with the cd covers, but not a web banner. <thorwil> newz2000: we said hi in the artwork channel, that's all <thorwil> newz2000: guess i have to see if i can catch him tomorrow <thorwil> newz2000: he's in london these days, right? <newz2000> yes <newz2000> he idles here often but recently left for the day <thorwil> i really don't want to be a diva, but my test in front of me causes almost physical pain <thorwil> newz2000: the only other way i see would be to make the numbers and text in the 3d graphics also white/close-to <newz2000> thorwil: I also have some feedback on the stuff for the animated banner <thorwil> good <newz2000> basically the only request is for the first slide <newz2000> people aren't liking the desk <newz2000> the best suggestion is to do an LCD monitor and keyboard <newz2000> Do you think that would be possible? <thorwil> yes. boring, but yes <newz2000> It's interesting the range of emotions I got on this particular work. <newz2000> Julian actually went from strongly disliking it to thinking you were brilliant as I explained how it was going to work. <thorwil> newz2000: heh. what did he think initially how it would work? <newz2000> He didn't understand how it was animated and how quick the transitions will be <thorwil> newz2000: and where does he see brilliance? ;) <newz2000> Communicating a message clearly and quickly I guess. <newz2000> The problem is if you stare at them closely you can pick them to pieces, but no one will be craighoward@example.net. They'll only be there for a moment. <newz2000> Except for the first one that is... <newz2000> which is a key point <newz2000> because the animation shouldn't start until the images are loaded, so the first one has to be really good stand alone <thorwil> i see <thorwil> newz2000: will we have a no-javascript solution for bloggers this time? <newz2000> I think we'll just use a static of the last frame <newz2000> but yes <thorwil> good. otherwise i would have to think of something entirely different, remembering the requests from last time <MadsRH> thorwil: Sorry for interrupting, but where can I see your slide images? Is there a public link? <newz2000> MadsRH: they're on the wiki... <knome> MadsRH, it's the countdown banners wiki page <newz2000> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners <MadsRH> of course :-[ thanks <knome> newz2000, http://(864)930-0890/rime/jscript/rotator/test2.html <knome> newz2000, is that any better? <newz2000> knome: a little, but not quite <newz2000> Why don't you stick the images in there that thorwill made <knome> newz2000, any direction to point to? <knome> right. <newz2000> well, the actual slide needs to be quick <newz2000> .25 seconds or so <newz2000> and about 2 seconds between transitions <knome> .25 secs but smooth? <newz2000> maybe .4 seconds <newz2000> but yes <newz2000> look at the one by Pierre and see how his is timed <newz2000> I haven't looked closely at the code yet http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/PierreCarousel <newz2000> http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/tmp/PierreCarousel/countdown.html is the frame <knome> newz2000, it uses mootools. <newz2000> knome: yours does? <newz2000> the other is jquery I think <knome> newz2000, no, his onw. <knome> one <knome> newz2000, and it's not mine, it's my codemonkeys ;) <newz2000> google.load('jquery', '1'); <newz2000> jquery via the google ajax api <knome> we don't use google nor something like that. only js <newz2000> I saw that. Clever. <newz2000> Don't be afraid to stand on the shoulders of giants. <newz2000> ;-) <knome> he is a clever codemonkey. <knome> he doesn't want bananas, he wants beer. <newz2000> You get two free cookies if he can do it with YUI3 <knome> (and money, occasionally) <newz2000> (virtual cookies) <knome> i'm seriously thinking whether i should possess him this challenge. <knome> but i think i won't :P <newz2000> Well, I don't really care what is used <newz2000> The end result is the important part <knome> right. what i care is about is that it's really non-dependant on heavy libs. <newz2000> that's fine too. The smoothness and the timing of the transition on Pierrre's is quite good. I'm not sure what makes the difference. <knome> it's something mootools does. it does some slide transition tweaking. <newz2000> maybe. (it's jquery btw) ;-) <newz2000> wow, how clever... look at this: <newz2000> $.get("http://developer.yahooapis.com/TimeService/V1/getTime", { <knome> http://(864)930-0890/rime/jscript/rotator/test3.html <knome> yes, i wouldn't want to refer to yahooapis.com <knome> is that better ^ <newz2000> there's somethign wrong with the dimensions <thorwil> newz2000: 9.04 white, too? <knome> newz2000, dimensions? what could that be? <newz2000> thorwil: let me check my chat history <newz2000> knome: I don't know, big white gaps <knome> newz2000, right. refresh <knome> it's cached css. <newz2000> knome: better. The delay between transitions is good, the actual transition could be quicker <newz2000> thorwil: still looking, sorry for delay <mdke> newz2000: hi <newz2000> hey mdke <newz2000> thorwil: the exact words are "with white Ubuntu" <newz2000> so I'd say leave the version number as it is <knome> newz2000, http://(864)930-0890/rime/jscript/rotator/test3.html <knome> newz2000, (again) - better? <newz2000> knome: looking sharp! <knome> is that good or bad? :P <newz2000> it's good <thorwil> it does weird things here <knome> right. anything else to tweak? <knome> thorwil, like what? <thorwil> knome: it left gaps between the slides and stopped in the middle of 2 slides on first load <thorwil> knome: but now it works after F5 <newz2000> thorwil: shift+reload <knome> thorwil, refresh css. <thorwil> ah, ok <knome> thorwil, that was just cached css. <thorwil> all hail caching <newz2000> knome: only one more change for now, add one more frame, use this image: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_ring_colored_24_days.png <newz2000> actually, maybe decrease the delay between the transitions. If it's 2.0s now then try 1.8s <knome> right :P <thorwil> knome, newz2000 it would be better to have the 1 px black border left in place, instead of having it as part of the slides <newz2000> yes, I agree <knome> thorwil, i thought that cam from your images... <thorwil> knome: yes, because i didn't think of sliding <thorwil> if the border can be added on top, i can remove it from my images <thorwil> but now i have to go, good night! :) <newz2000> don't sweat it for now thorwil <newz2000> ok, good night thorwil, thanks for your help <newz2000> mdke: what do you think about the search engine suggestion, should we try to make it work with search.ubuntu.com so we only need to maintain one? <mdke> newz2000: is there an email about this that I missed? <newz2000> no, just mentioned it above <newz2000> basically <mdke> newz2000: ah, scrolling up <newz2000> search.ubuntu.com already has a filter for limiting searches to documentation <newz2000> (which is help.ubuntu.com) <mdke> as long as the results cover the same sites as the current website and are weighted in the same way, i think that would work <mdke> although I guess the header might be inconsistent with the help website <newz2000> lets see if it's technically feasable <newz2000> if so we can have a different search results page <mdke> ok. Dustin has been very good at google search so he can probably help answer any technical questions <mdke> and he has access to the config with the weighting rules <newz2000> oh, you've already started building another one? <mdke> basically we weight the latest stable release docs higher than others, and then the community ones below that, broadly <mdke> newz2000: we've had one since October, but it has adverts <newz2000> oh, I see <newz2000> well, what you describe is actually a good idea <newz2000> I'll talk to Dustin about it, see if he knows a way to send a parameter in with the search to automatically use the documentation filter. If so we'll put your weighting into ours (since it seems logical) <mdke> that's great <mdke> feel free to check out help.ubuntu.com/search.html for the search we have now <knome> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/ <knome> newz2000, fallbacks to frame 6 if no JS <knome> newz2000, slides are now showed 1.8s <newz2000> looks good <newz2000> I'll show it off to a few people and get some feedback <knome> sure, no problem. <newz2000> You may want to hide frame 6 using js until after frame 1 loads <newz2000> it seems to be loading quicker than frame 1 <newz2000> but that is a good idea <knome> that might be a bit of a problem. i don't know. <knome> the fallback frame is defined in css, which will obviously load before js, is the js script is included after. <knome> i shall ask what we can do <knome> ok, the thing is investigated. <newz2000> one thing you can do is just use an img tag in a noscript tag <newz2000> and if you put that last then it will load afterwards <knome> right.. <newz2000> well, technically it won't load at all unless js is off <knome> the noscript? <newz2000> if js is turned on the <noscript><img ...></noscript> is ignored <knome> right. <knome> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/ <newz2000> knome: awesome, good work <knome> i'll forward your thanks to the author :) <knome> though he might just pop in himself..:P <newz2000> I'll send it to people and get feedback. I can't wait to see it with the final image <knome> yeah. <knome> it's highly possible we will use it with xubuntu as well :) <knome> newz2000, meet rime, the author of the JS <newz2000> hi rime! <rime> hi newz2000! <newz2000> ah, this is nice: <newz2000> frameDelays[0] = 1000 * 1.8; <knome> yes. <knome> that was the original spec, wasn't it? <newz2000> that will make it very easy to tweak when it comes time to do final adjustments <newz2000> see you later, gonna upgrade to jaunty <knome> see you newz2000 #ubuntu-website 2009-03-20 <thorwil> julian: good morning! i have to talk with you about the countdown banner. have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#White, please <julian> thorwil, hi there! how are you? <thorwil> julian: i'm fine except for being very unhappy with the white text <julian> unhappy? <thorwil> julian: i hope that you see that it rips the design apart <julian> not at all :-). it's right on brand <julian> i'd keep the 9.04 in orange thoug <julian> though <julian> this way, it matches the new cd artwork perfectly <julian> i love your design <thorwil> it might match the cd art, but it is very unharmonious inside my design :( <julian> how about you change the 9.04 back to orange and see how you feel then... <thorwil> julian: if you want that sort of consistency, you should offer a guideline at the start of the countdown call for entries. or you have to doit internally <julian> we will in the future - we're currently working on brand guidelines as we speak as we havent had any up until now <thorwil> i'm pretty sure making the 9.04 orange will only introduce even more unrest <thorwil> julian: if you insist on white, i will have to try to adapt the colors of the rendering. as it is on the wiki, i can't stand with my name for it <thorwil> colored logo and white text work very well with the background, i have to admit. but i miss the connection to the rendered text <julian> i think you're being hard on yourself. your design is really good. it's classy. introducing the white makes is right on brand which only enhances it <julian> this isnt a personal thing - its a keeping the brand consistent thing <julian> if we introduce an orange colour to the brand, its like were saying its ok for others to do this which dilutes the brand <thorwil> i do understand that point of view, but i think the logo and type are so strong shape-wise, that i wouldn't be so restrictive <thorwil> julian: ok, then. i will try to adjust the rendering. if that doesn't work, i'm ok with going with what i have now <julian> you should be proud of your work. i've noticed your other contributions since i arrived at canonical and we're delighted with what you do <thorwil> thanks! <julian> try making the 9.04 orange and see how you feel then... <thorwil> julian: to be sure: you mean the color of the left dot of the logo, righ? <thorwil> julian: can i have peek at the cd artwork? <julian> not quite - i mean on your 'white' proposal, keep the circle of friends brand as you have it... <julian> keep the 'ubuntu' in white as you have it... <julian> but change the '9.04' from white to orange. <julian> i cant release the artwork yet i'm afraid as it isnt fully signed off yet :-( <thorwil> julian: what i meant: shall i use the orange from the left dot of the Circle-of-Friends for the 9.04? or any orange i see fit? :) <julian> ah - sorry... <julian> yes - use the orange from the c-o-f dot <thorwil> ok <thorwil> puts a lot of emphasis on "ubuntu" between logo an 9.04 <thorwil> julian: mayne my last question for now ... what font and relative size are used for the 9.04 on the cd artwork? <julian> were keeping the font the same - no change. the 9.04 is the same size as the ubuntu label <thorwil> julian: besides the obvious need for color correction, how do you feel about http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/485382/1_desktop_test.png ? <thorwil> damn <thorwil> newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Final,%20with%20slideshow <thorwil> all images in a tar.bz2 linked on the wiki <Turl> thorwil: hi, nice countdown :) I really like it <thorwil> Turl: thanks :) <thorwil> good night! <knome> thorwil, imho the monitor could be bigger in the first slide <knome> night #ubuntu-website 2009-03-23 <julian> thorwil: i'd go with a three-quarter view as opposed to a front-on view, just to match the laptop and netbook views <thorwil> hi julian, newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Final,%20with%20slideshow <thorwil> can this go online tomorrow? <newz2000> hi knome, rime, do you guys have a few min to update http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/ with the new images? (see the link above) <newz2000> it would probably help julian to see the final product <newz2000> thorwil: I think we need to get a few eyes looking at the banner to ensure the timing is right. Otherwise, when julian is ready so am I. <thorwil> newz2000: ok, cool <newz2000> knome, rime: actually, never mind, I'll just re-publish it with the new images <newz2000> julian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html <newz2000> others: what do you think of the timing there? Could it be quicker? <thorwil> newz2000: not by much <thorwil> newz2000: we, who we know the images quite well beforehand, have to counteract the tendency to make it too fast <newz2000> yeah, my thoughts exactly <newz2000> I kind of wish the transition period was a bit quicker. I wonder if I grabbed the most recent code. <newz2000> there, that's a bit faster <newz2000> try this, is it smooth still for you all: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html <thorwil> yes <jpds> Nice. <newz2000> thorwil: I looked into the wordpress.com thing... I really can't believe they don't allow iframes. The cross-domain protection built int browsers should prevent them from anything malicious. <newz2000> fascists. <thorwil> *shrug* <thorwil> my wordpress blog doesn't cost a thing, not with 80 hits a day, not with 21000 :) <thorwil> newz2000: i thought the solution was an image link to a php script? <newz2000> I guess so, but I've got some hesitancy. I will talk to the sysadmins to see what they say. <newz2000> thorwil: kat likes it! :-) <thorwil> cool :) <knome> newz2000, tbh, i think the carousel is a bit too quick. <newz2000> knome: can you be more specific? Does it start too quickly (i.e. you miss the first frame) or is everything too quick? <knome> newz2000, everything is too quick <knome> newz2000, the transition speed is ok, but the slides are shown too little time <newz2000> knome: are you a native english speaker/reader? <knome> newz2000, nope. <newz2000> ok, that's good feedback <knome> newz2000, why do you ask? :) <knome> newz2000, right. <knome> newz2000, let me explain a bit further: <knome> newz2000, imagine this scenario: a user enters a site with that countdown banner. the banner might not be in the best place or the viewer misses the first slide accidentally. he might not even notice the second frame or the third, because the slides go froward so quickly. that leads him to the need to refresh the page to see the banner. <knome> newz2000, so maybe the first slide could be shown a bit more also <knome> newz2000, but adjusting your eyes to that kind (and size) of banner is really hard, especially if you didn't expect it and if it's not your native language <newz2000> I think we should: <newz2000> a: increase duration of first slide <newz2000> b: count on people not seeing the banner until the animation starts (meaning they'll miss the first slide anyway) <newz2000> so that implies <knome> right, so what about adding one slide to the beginning <newz2000> c: if the banner is content that we want people to see fully, give them a way to replay it <knome> with animated gif of something that flashes black to the background and to the first slide <knome> let me be more clear :) <newz2000> the reason I put the countdown last was because it's the key slide, if they miss the rest but see the last slide is that enough? my inclination is "yes" <knome> 1) black 2) background 3) transition to the first slide <julian> thorwil, newz2000 hi guys <newz2000> hi julian <thorwil> hi julian <knome> newz2000, i see. but it's somewhat the waste of thorwils great graphics to expect most of the people missing those frames <knome> newz2000, my question in this case is: why do we bother doing a carousel if we don't mind people to see those first frames? <newz2000> well, its not a waste, because I think more people will see the last slide because of the animation and graphics preceding it <thorwil> there doesn't happen to be a become-visible event that would be triggered if the banner is scrolled up from below the page fold? * newz2000 is thinking out loud, not convinced one way or another yet <newz2000> thorwil: not that i know of <julian> guys - i just have a couple of comments for you... <julian> the timing is pretty quick - i'd be tempted to increase hold on each item by 3/4-1 second... <julian> we know what it's saying. i think new users will want longer to digest what we're saying <julian> also... <julian> we need to change the perspective of the desktop. its currently square on, whereas the laptop/netbooks are corner on <julian> and finally... <julian> the net book looks really small to the point it looks lost. we need it to be bigger which may mean that the laptop has to go bigger to keep the differentiation <julian> other than that - the whito branding looks great and the concept looks great :-) <knome> imho the desktop monitor should be way bigger. <newz2000> julian: how do you feel about the concept that the first slide (or first few) could get missed until the animation catches the eye? <knome> newz2000, thorwil, julian: do you think we could replay the carousel if user clicks on the last slide? <thorwil> julian: the desktop is straight on precisely because the next 2 are corner on. what orientation/rotation would you suggest? <knome> would that be a solution for missing slides <newz2000> knome: no, there should be a destination url <knome> right <thorwil> knome: a click should lead to ubuntu.com, no? <knome> right... didn't remember that. <julian> thorwil, corner on so it matches the next 2 <julian> newz2000, not sure what you mean... <newz2000> there seems to be a diff perspective for all the slides, servers and cloud included <knome> i think it's great now. <newz2000> julian: on a busy page where someone is not there to see the banner they may not even notice it until it starts to move and therefore miss one or more slides <julian> newz2000, ahh, i see... but it lops doesnt it...? <thorwil> newz2000: could be on repeat, with a rather long hold out on the countdown <knome> julian, it's not looping. <newz2000> I don't think it's wise to loop indefinitely, but it could repeat once <newz2000> I'm personally very annoyed when trying to read a page and animations go constantly <knome> i think what thorwil suggests is ok, if the countdown to new repeat is long enough. <knome> maybe we could increase the time to next repeat every time it's looped once? <julian> can there be a time delay between loops ie it plays, remains on last frame for 30s then starts again? <knome> julian, sure. <knome> but i agree with newz2000 on ever-looping animation. <newz2000> julian: I think it's very distracting, 30s delay maybe more so. I'd value mpt's opinion on this. <knome> making it wait longer after 2 loops would maybe be a solution. <julian> newz2000, i'll ask mpt now... * thorwil switches to fullscreen blender <julian> thorwil, what do you think about changing the desktop to corner on...? <thorwil> julian: i'm ok with it. will use the orientation of the netbbook, to have a \ / \ movement, i think <newz2000> julian: updated the timings as you suggested. +1s to first slide, +0.7s to each subsequent slide. <newz2000> little over 13s for full animation <julian> thorwil, newz2000 great...! <julian> feedback from mpt is... <julian> looping with a delay is fine as people going to ubuntu.com are going for a reason - its not like surfing to a holiday booking site and being annoyed by banners that are not relevant to me <julian> also... <julian> as its on the front page, they are unlikely to be there for long as they're on theor way somewhere else and hence its okay... <julian> he alao said the "days to go" text is too small to have in perspective - keep it sguare on... <julian> square <julian> all great points made by the usability master ;-) * mpt cringes <thorwil> it's not like i didn't consider to keep the "days to go" outside the perspective. kept it this way for better closure <thorwil> should be possible to doctor that without rendering the whole batch. other wise see you again tomorrow ... * thorwil somehow managed to make the little images take a long time to render <newz2000> mpt, julian: this isn't for the homepage of ubuntu.com, it's for syndication to blogs and sites across the web <mpt> newz2000, for that purpose, I suggest just the final frame, no animation <newz2000> that will be the primary way it's used, this iframe/animation is an experimental alternative * thorwil -> dinner <julian> newz2000, just so i'm clear, what will be used for ubuntu.com? <newz2000> julian: my intention was thorwil's static countdown banner, but this animation is getting good enough that I'm tempted to use it. <julian> i agree <julian> i think we should use it... <newz2000> these banners will also be syndicated across the web for use on other sites <newz2000> from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown <julian> shouldn't we use 1 banner consistently...? <julian> (or was this just an example from 8.10)...? <knome> julian, the carousel is fallbacking to the last frame anyway if a user doesn't have JS <knome> julian, so i would treat the carousel only as an advanced version of the same banner. <newz2000> julian: the line is blurry. We used two banners last time because of the colour differences. We did two this time because we did two last time. The iframe/animation was just to delve into new territory <newz2000> to see if it was feasible <julian> newz2000, i see <julian> i think his design works
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