#ubuntu-us-nm 2011-06-29
<x359058> hey, anyone live near one of the natural disasters taking place in America right now?
<mneptok> x359058: most of us in NM do.
<x359058> mneptok, there is an uncommonly high number of no-fly zones in the U.S. right now.  afaict there are normally 5 per year but 50+ have been declared in June alone
<x359058> List of no-fly zones (FAA.GOV)
<x359058> http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.html
<mneptok> yeah, the "HAZARDS" column is filling rapidly.
<x359058> I have to go, but can people start monitoring those areas for contradictions?
<mneptok> mostly with fires the NO-FLY is because of decreased visibility and increased traffic congestion with fire-fighting aircraft
<x359058> the NOTAMs indicate the reason that the airspace is closed, so can you watch for activity (or lack thereof) that contradicts that stated reason?
<x359058> and document things with pictures and video
<mneptok> x359058: unless you're paying me ... no ;)
<x359058> you'll be paid by helping to detect or prevent the causes of nuclear disaster
 * mneptok has a full-time job, a wife, and other hobbies :)
<x359058> most of those locations are near precarious nuclear facilities
<mneptok> x359058: what nuclear disaster?
<x359058> in NM, Los Alamos National Laboratory stores a lot of Plutonium and other radioactive materials
<mneptok> before becoming alarmist, i would suggest you read statements issued by LANL and the Los Alamos and NM fire authorities.
<mneptok> x359058: do you know where that plutonium is stored?
<x359058> they evacuated all of the employees.  Does that sound like it's not a problem?
<x359058> the plutonium is stored in fabric-covered bunkers outdoors
<mneptok> underground. in barrels designed to withstand incredible forces (e.g. direct chemical detonation).
<x359058> well I hope so
<mneptok> unless the soil starts burning, and it won't, there is not a alot of cause for alarm
<mneptok> *a lot
<x359058> anyway there is depleted uranium waste and other testing byproducts on the land near the facility
<x359058> that could be engulfed by the forest fires
<mneptok> x359058: they also evacuated the entiore city of Los Alamos. not just employees of LANL.
<x359058> ok, then it's entirely in their hands at this point
<x359058> nothing we can do at all unless someone is feeling adventurous and knows how to do guerilla firefighting
<mneptok> read this - http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/28/new-mexico-fire-thre.html#comment-1150816
<x359058> anyway we can watch the airspace for contradictions right?
<mneptok> you'll sleep better :)
<x359058> how much money do you want to take some pictures and video of fire fighting operations there?
<x359058> it can be from a safe distance
<x359058> maybe use a camera connected to a telescope
<mneptok> i can't. they have closed the area to prevent exactly such things. people go into fires to take pictures, and come out in body bags.
<x359058> not asking about that.  I'm mainly interested in the air operations
<x359058> how the closed airspace is being used
<mneptok> but LANL knows the imprtance of keeping spot fires off lab grounds. so do the fire fighters. there is a large group of extremely otivated people that will not allow a fire on lab grounds to spread.
<mneptok> the closed space is being used by plane and helo tankers, helo spotters, etc
<mneptok> a light aircraft flying in that airspace is a needless danger to fire-fighting operations, and a mid-air collision would result in *another* fire starting at the points of impact
<x359058> is it being used as thoroughly as one would expect?  Do you know of citizens who wanted to volunteer their time and resources to help fight the fires?
<x359058> this happened in the Gulf oil spill as well.  Some citizens tried to volunteer but they were denied unless they went through official channels
<mneptok> Santa Fe is hiring fire fighters - http://www.santafenm.gov/jobs.aspx
<x359058> some speculate that it was because the hazards of Corexit spraying required signing a legal waiver.  Others speculated that it was intentional denial of citizen involvement so that government agencies could make the big decisions like whether to spray Corexit or not and could take complete credit for the cleanup operations
<x359058> Trevor Paglen has done limit-telephotography of secret locations in the U.S. http://www.paglen.com/pages/projects.htm
<mneptok> if NM authorities let you as a volunteer cross evacuation lines, they have given their tacit approval for your "help." if you die in the fire, your heirs would have legal recourse to file suit against the state and municipality
<x359058> mneptok, good to know that there are legal walls in addition to the walls in peoples' minds that are preventing people from volunteering to solve these problems
<x359058> there are small and safe ways to volunteer - it doesn't have to involve direct fire fighting
<mneptok> x359058: there are fire-fighting professionals. they train to do what they do. thinking that some software geek can grab a hose and do as good a job as trained professionals diminishes the training and professionalism of the pros.
<mneptok> people have been asked to open their homes. to donate food. to donate water and other supplies.
<x359058> I'm not talking about grabbing a hose.  I'm talking about other types of support such as logistics, communication, research, journalism
<mneptok> and people are responding.
<x359058> research about the root causes of the wildfires.  Are they burning quicker than people expect?
<x359058> some articles I was reading quoted a senator that the fires burned as much in 14 hours as they used to in several days
<mneptok> no, they are burning at the rate you would expect from an area that has had no measurable rainfall and 90F+ tempsfor more than a month
<x359058> and why has it had no measurable rainfall?  we can research that, I think
<mneptok> i'm going to go with "because it hasn't rained"
<mneptok> but if you want to blame black helicopters and the NSA for a lack of precipitation, i won't try and stop you ;)
<x359058> there are 2 main hypotheses afaict: 1. increased ambient air temperatures due to global climate change, 2. weather modification
<x359058> I have to go, but thanks for talking
<x359058> I'll be back in a few hours.  Talk to you then
<mneptok> np np
#ubuntu-us-nm 2012-06-19
<n0wje> exit

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