#ubuntu-manual 2010-11-01 <nisshh> im interested in seeing how many people download the next version of the manual compared to lucid e1 :) <nisshh> should be very interesting <godbyk> Yeah, it will be. <nisshh> yeah <trijntje> Hi all, any news on the quickshot server (or how I can take a screenshot 'manually'), the dutch translation team is dying to release e1, but we still need 1 screenshot <godbyk> flan: Have you had a chance to setup lucid-e1 on the new quickshot server? And is the new quickshot program available for trijntje to use? <jenkins> has anyone managed to share their wireless signal over bluetooth to an android phone or any phone? <flan> godbyk, trijntje, yes, it's available. <flan> But you can just take the screenshot with the Gnome screenshot utility and then upload that, with the proper name. <flan> It may be easier if you opnly have one. <flan> only* <trijntje> flan, can I find an example on the server of the screenshot I need? Its the first one, I think its of some step in the installation? <flan> Sure thing. <flan> I'll send you an archive of all the accepted screenshots for a language... German good with you? <trijntje> sure ;) <trijntje> but does the server work? I need to go to a live system anyway to capture the install <flan> Actually, it might be easier if you just grab the archive directly from godbyk's mirror. <flan> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/de.zip <flan> Just find the one you're missing, then capture it using the Gnome screenshot utility, give it the same filename, and DCC it to one of (me, godbyk, jenkins) and we'll put it where it needs to go. <flan> The new server requires the new client; the old server's retired. <flan> It's just dying a slow death. <flan> one of us* <trijntje> hm, looks like nl needs 20 screenshots.. <flan> Oh. Well, that's considerably more work. <flan> Willing to be among the first to help test the new system? <flan> I can work with godbyk to move over the partially complete nl screenshots. <godbyk> flan: I'm happy to help. Just let me know what you need. <trijntje> flan, i'm also happy to help, but not today, its late in my timezone ;) <flan> Actually, I don't need anything more than permission to do mean things to your bandwidth. <godbyk> flan: Ah, in that case, have at it! <flan> (Generate partial zipfiles and download them using the general lack of security in the old model) <flan> (Then just unpack them into the proper paths on my server) <trijntje> ill pop back here tomorrow to hear what i'm testing, goodnigth for now #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-03 <j1mc> hi all - anyone around? <dutchie> depends what you mean by "around" <j1mc> hey dutchie <nisshh> j1mc, im here, but im busy, whats up? <j1mc> well, i was thinking... i know it might not be tremendously popular, but i think there might be a good rationale for working to merge the tasks of the ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-manual teams <j1mc> here's some of the rationale <nisshh> go on <j1mc> - ubuntu switching to unity, requiring *a lot* of content to be rewritten (or just written) by both teams <j1mc> - all of that content needs to be translated by a finite number of translators <dutchie> j1mc: before you get too carried away, can i suggest you write this up into a mailing list post and send it to both teams' mailing lists? better for people who aren't on irc now <nisshh> what dutchie said <j1mc> - there's some risk of documentation syntax fragmentation going on... a lot of different syntaxes are being introduced into the doc world, making it so that people have to learn multiple different workflows and syntaxes to contribute <nisshh> j1mc, there is an issue with doing this <nisshh> but i will reply to the ML post, not here <j1mc> dutchie: i understand, i will post it to the ml <j1mc> just wanted to bring it up on irc first, so that people didn't feel blindsided by the notion <nisshh> we wouldnt have <nisshh> its just discussion until a decision is made after all <j1mc> - another reason is that the gnome user docs (which are in ubutu) are being rewritten by gnome for gnome-shell, making much of the gnome user help of limited value to ubuntu <j1mc> nisshh: one of the key strengths of the manual team is in making the documentation look good... and you all have done some good work over the last couple of cycles. <j1mc> i think we could all benefit better if we worked together <j1mc> i will stop for now, though <j1mc> please just know that i'm not attempting to start flame wars about project differences. i'm just attempting to suggest something that might be helpful <godbyk> j1mc: There has been some discussion in the past about collaborating more with the docs and learning teams. <godbyk> Unfortunately, I think everyone got busy and the discussions have stalled out at the moment. <j1mc> godbyk: i know that the "learning center" might be a bit far off. i think we could combine efforts before then, though. <j1mc> for example, this doc is written in docbook for opensuse docs: http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse113/pdfdoc/art_osuse_installquick_113/art_osuse_installquick_113.pdf <j1mc> it looks nice <godbyk> There's more to it than simply the format. There's a difference in language and structure between writing a book and writing a wiki page or short tutorial. <nisshh> exactly <godbyk> I'm very interested in collaborating as much as possible. <nisshh> also <nisshh> the docs provide general info <nisshh> we do a lot of hand holding in the manual <godbyk> But it's not simply a matter of using the exact same text in both places. <nisshh> which would be tricky anyway <nisshh> considering the scope of the docs and manual are both different <godbyk> (Speaking to the issue of the source format: I would like to explore docbook more. I think the default docbook-to-pdf converters do a lousy job, but I suspect that's because no one's taken the time to write decent style sheets for the pdf/latex end of things.) <j1mc> that's a fair point, but there are ways to accommodate content re-use. <godbyk> j1mc: We're definitely interested in content re-use. It lightens the load for everyone. <j1mc> thanks for your time, all. i'll send a note out to the ML's about these items. <godbyk> Thanks, j1mc! <j1mc> :) <nisshh> cool <nisshh> aquarius, do you think it would be worth it having a meeting concerning the developer manual later this cycle? <aquarius> nisshh, certainly <nisshh> aquarius, right <nisshh> aquarius, btw, are you subscribed to the mailing list now? <aquarius> I am indeed <nisshh> cool <aquarius> although I have a batch of them marked unread so that I can read through in detail :) <nisshh> ok <nisshh> its the easiest way for me to announce meetings, etc, so its handy if everyone i need to contact is subscribed to the list <nisshh> holy moly <nisshh> i just got 15 mails from launchpad notifying me about 1 person who is updating ubuntu-manual bugs like crazy :) #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-05 <humphreybc> sup <godbyk> humphreybc: I was literally just typing you an IM to remind you about the meeting. :) <humphreybc> you're lucky i'm here <godbyk> Ah, well, I see it as *you're* lucky *I'm* here. :-P <humphreybc> ha <flan> You're both unlucky, since I'm kinda here. <godbyk> Hey, flan. Have you had any time to work on the Quickshot stuff? I think the Dutch translation team is basically waiting on us. <flan> That's been ported over. <flan> But all they're missing is the first screenshot. <flan> I could capture that manually. <godbyk> Ah, okay. <flan> Or they could. <flan> It's really easy to do. <godbyk> Speak of the devil... Hey, Hannie. :) <flan> Just pop the ISO into VirtualBox and crop it with The GIMP. <Hannie> Hi there <flan> Call it '01-welcome.png' and pass it to anyone with bzr commit access. <godbyk> Hannie: flan said that he thinks you're just missing one screenshot and that you could probably take it manually. <godbyk> He's setup the new Quickshot server. <Hannie> I was told the quickshot server is not working <godbyk> flan: Is the new Quickshot app itself usable? <flan> Taking it manually's probably easier. <flan> It is. <flan> It also seems pretty stable. <godbyk> 'kay. <flan> But some of its wording may be counter-intuitive. <ChrisWoollard> evening <flan> It needs us to give it a full run-through before we can call it 1.0. <Hannie> Hi Chris <flan> http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04 nl's only off by one screenshot. You can preview the others (JPEG compression) online. <flan> And reject anything that doesn't look right. <humphreybc> so who's here? <flan> Not me. <Hannie> Yes, 47 shots are there <flan> Oh. Not -welcome. <ChrisWoollard> not me either <flan> It's first-slide. <flan> So you'd need to get as far as starting the install. <flan> Still easy to do in VirtualBox, though. <mattgriffin> hi <humphreybc> hey matt <ChrisWoollard> hey matt <humphreybc> okay should we start this meeting? I don't have an agenda, slightly hungover <flan> Stop drinking, college-boy. =P <Hannie> Ready, steady, go <ChrisWoollard> nothing like preperation <humphreybc> #startmeeting <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:03. The chair is humphreybc. <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] <humphreybc> okay * trijntje is reading along <humphreybc> should we figure out where we're at first? * daker o/ <Hannie> hey tijntje <humphreybc> [TOPIC] Where are we at currently? <MootBot> New Topic: Where are we at currently? <godbyk> Which branch do you want to hear about first? <humphreybc> maverick <humphreybc> top priority first <ChrisWoollard> It requires screenshots <trijntje> Hi Hannie <humphreybc> what about the changes from lucid? <godbyk> Maverick's had some editing, writing, and reorganization done to it, but still needs a bit more of each. <humphreybc> ok <godbyk> I don't know that there's been any systematic effort to check for the changes from lucid and update the manual. <humphreybc> hmm * ChrisWoollard is looking for stuff <humphreybc> so should we appeal for people to help? <godbyk> Sure. <ChrisWoollard> i would say yes <humphreybc> well <humphreybc> if we could get a list of changes <humphreybc> like a todo list <humphreybc> i'll post some stuff on OMG! and see who we can get to help <ChrisWoollard> it is the url i have been trying to get people to proof read <ChrisWoollard> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/382986/ubuntu-manual/UbuntuManual.html <MootBot> LINK received: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/382986/ubuntu-manual/UbuntuManual.html <godbyk> If we're having random passersby read the manual to look for changes, we should assign them each a different chapter or section so we don't have everyone read the installation chapter and then quit. <humphreybc> yeah <Omega> Oh, I got here on time. <c7p> one guy from my loco team reviewed some chapters -more on pad- <michael_k> it was me <ChrisWoollard> i am looking for the pad link <michael_k> i ma currently reviwing ch 4 <c7p> hey michael :) <michael_k> hey john! <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-m-todo <MootBot> LINK received: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-m-todo <humphreybc> let's try to quickly jot down known changes between lucid and maverick here <humphreybc> while the meeting continues and after <ChrisWoollard> the install has changed <ChrisWoollard> it still needs updating <ChrisWoollard> +screenshots <humphreybc> [ACTION] Team to create checklist and todo in etherpad <MootBot> ACTION received: Team to create checklist and todo in etherpad <ryu_kurisu> New ubuntu font is added (going open-source when complete) <humphreybc> [ACTION] Benjamin to write a post on OMG! and get some peeps over here to help out <MootBot> ACTION received: Benjamin to write a post on OMG! and get some peeps over here to help out <ChrisWoollard> Here is the proof reading log of what is done <ChrisWoollard> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-10-10-pr-log <MootBot> LINK received: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-10-10-pr-log <michael_k> c7p has also posted for help in our forum. Maybe other loco temas could do the same <humphreybc> neat <humphreybc> I'm keen to keep the meeting moving on and continue further discussion in the mailing list <humphreybc> anyone else have any action items for the maverick manual? <humphreybc> flan: what's the story with quickshot? <ChrisWoollard> I am not sure. I haven't read the rest yet. I have been a bit slack on that front. * humphreybc feels like he's talking to himself <ryu_kurisu> I'm might be able to contact the Dutch LoCo <Hannie> trijntje does the screenshots, he is here <humphreybc> okay <humphreybc> well since no one is talking about this, i'll move on to the next topic <Hannie> when will the server be ok? <humphreybc> [When are we going to release Maverick?] <godbyk> Hannie: Using the new Quickshot with the new Quickshot server should work fine. <godbyk> Hannie: The old Quickshot app won't work, though. <Hannie> And is the new Quickshot working at the moment? <humphreybc> [TOPIC] When are we going to release the maverick manual? <MootBot> New Topic: When are we going to release the maverick manual? <godbyk> Hannie: Per flan, it should be, yes. <c7p1> humphreybc: hm, is there any dead line for the writing ? <humphreybc> should we aim for two weeks from now or something? <Hannie> ok, thanks <ChrisWoollard> i would say asap. <michael_k> +1 <humphreybc> righto <humphreybc> [ACTION] Release maverick manual ASAP <MootBot> ACTION received: Release maverick manual ASAP <ryu_kurisu> I've send word to sehof of the Dutch LoCo <humphreybc> [TOPIC] Should we put a hold on translations until the team has a better infrastructure to handle them? <MootBot> New Topic: Should we put a hold on translations until the team has a better infrastructure to handle them? <godbyk> I think that the lucid translations can probably continue. <godbyk> For maverick translations, I guess it'll depend on how long it takes us to get a better infrastructure in place. <humphreybc> It's best to start translations after the final freeze <michael_k> I wouldn't like that but we can release english version and release tranlsations as they get completed <humphreybc> yeah <ryu_kurisu> I don't know, it would be wise to start translation only when the manuel is complete....or start on sections that are finilised <humphreybc> because when we change things as they're translating, it doesn't work too good <humphreybc> yeah <humphreybc> well <ryu_kurisu> *manual <c7p1> current infrastructure (launchpad) has some bugs but we should keep on releasing translated editions <ChrisWoollard> I would say that we should really push for screenshots too be done soon. <humphreybc> we're probably going to change our structure to aim for main release about 2 weeks after ubuntu comes out <michael_k> I think it;s eassier for translators to work with finished products <Omega> But other languages will lag behind substiantially then. <humphreybc> yeah <Hannie> If there are only minor changes we can start translating maverich asap <humphreybc> see this is the thing, some languages will never get done due to the 6 month cycle <humphreybc> by the time they've almost been done, it'll be time for the next manual <michael_k> that's true even for Ubuntu itself <humphreybc> yeah <humphreybc> but even harder for a 170 page book <Omega> Maybe we can use a \releasename \releasenumber command in the doc's so those get updated automatically? <humphreybc> hence I think only certain instances should be translated, maybe just LTS releases to give 2 years for full translation <c7p1> there should be selected freezed content for every release so the translators cope with the work more easily <trijntje> are chapter-freezes an idea? That way translations could start early on <godbyk> Omega: Where would you use those? <trijntje> and just create translation templates per chapter and combine them when building? <godbyk> Right now our writing freeze coincides with our release, basically. <Omega> godbyk: Everywhere you want to say "Maverick" <Omega> or "10.10" <ryu_kurisu> well, some pages are filed with pictures...and really simple to translate sections <humphreybc> trijntje: maybe but it's hard to organize especially with ubuntu ignoring their UI freeze <michael_k> also if there are no complete rewrites of large parts translations can progress farily qyickly <humphreybc> should we defer further discussion of translations into a new mailing list thread? <ryu_kurisu> that's true <humphreybc> (also to include the many translators that aren't here) <Hannie> That is a good idea <humphreybc> michael_k: do you reckon you could start up a new thread to the list? <michael_k> ok ! <ryu_kurisu> I'm not a translator, but most parts are the same for lucid and maverick, right? <humphreybc> thanks <ryu_kurisu> They've switched to applications for two similar applications <humphreybc> Okay, I think we should aim for these things this week and have another meeting next weekend to discuss more about the project <humphreybc> right now we have the following goals, to get the maverick manual out, finish screenshots, get new contributors for the final push, release the website (will talk to daker) and have further discussion about translations <trijntje> ryu_kurisu, I dont think LP is that good at recognising that strings are very similar. If the English text changes all translations are discarded. Even fixes for typo's I believe <c7p1> actually we should promote more the project and apeal more volunteers <humphreybc> c7p1: yeah <humphreybc> but <ChrisWoollard> +1 <c7p1> who is writing the content now ? <humphreybc> no point getting people to help if there's nothing to do <Hannie> Have you read the proposal of Jonas: New Features guide <c7p1> sure <ChrisWoollard> That was mine <ChrisWoollard> idea that is <humphreybc> so are we happy with those goals for this week? <c7p1> yap but i don't remeber what he said :/ nvm i ld look at it <michael_k> I propose to get done with maverick asap and start working on that for natty so we can assign tasks to new people coming <humphreybc> yeah, we should have a meeting solely to discuss team structure <c7p1> +1 <michael_k> +1 <humphreybc> let's get this maverick manual out somehow <humphreybc> and then work on that afterwards <humphreybc> sound cool? <ChrisWoollard> Yep. Can't do anything else until then <humphreybc> so we'll defer stuff to the list, i'll write a summary of the meeting and send that too later today <c7p1> cool <humphreybc> michael_k: start up a translation thread <humphreybc> I think those are good goals for this week <humphreybc> another meeting, same time next Friday? <michael_k> OK! hope to get it by tomorrow morning! <humphreybc> okay <ChrisWoollard> So, who can help with what and when? Any responsibilities? <c7p1> sounds good to me <michael_k> next Friday same time is OK for me <humphreybc> i'll make sure next meeting has an agenda <humphreybc> ChrisWoollard: I'll make sure our list of changes is concise <michael_k> i' ll continue reviewing ch. 4 and continue to other chapters <humphreybc> godbyk: are the instructions on our website for writers etc up to date? <Hannie> Is each chapter assigned to one person? <humphreybc> Hannie: not currently <ChrisWoollard> not at the moment <godbyk> humphreybc: For writers working on the Maverick edition, they should be up-to-date, yeah. <humphreybc> maybe we should do that <michael_k> just check etherpad <humphreybc> ok <ChrisWoollard> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-10-10-pr-log <MootBot> LINK received: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ump-10-10-pr-log <ChrisWoollard> :) <humphreybc> ok <humphreybc> cool <ChrisWoollard> The installation chapter needs looking at as the whole install changed <humphreybc> well i'm out for now but i'll fire off something to the list today and write a post on OMG early next week <Hannie> bye <trijntje> bye all <humphreybc> see ya guys, thanks for coming <dutchie> humphreybc: don't forget to stop the meeting <humphreybc> is this time good for meetings? <ryu_kurisu> You'ra welcome =D <ChrisWoollard> always good for me <Hannie> for me it is <humphreybc> okay <humphreybc> #endmeeting <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:32. <ryu_kurisu> humpreybc: As far as I'm concerned it is <humphreybc> okay <Hannie> 22:32 <humphreybc> i'll mail the list again <humphreybc> for a new meeting <humphreybc> chow! <Omega> Cya! <michael_k> ok! bb <c7p1> bye <Hannie> See you <Muscovy> Hello all. <daker> Muscovy, hi <Muscovy> Meeting hasn't happened yet, has it? <Muscovy> I've just gotten in. <daker> it's already finished <Muscovy> Oh. #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-06 <nisshh> oops <nisshh> sorry i missed the meeting last night <nisshh> i had to sleep <humphreybc-ipad> Badass <nisshh> OMG! he got an ipad! <nisshh> what the hell compelled him to get an ipad!? <trijntje> Hi all, where can I get the new Quickshot for lucid? <trijntje> Can someone help me getting quickshot running? I've installed it from the Lucid PPA but it looks like it still cant find the server <thorwil> nisshh: was it you, or someone else in here, working with pylons a bit? <thorwil> http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss/browse_thread/thread/97faa18a3429a28e <daker> thorwil, not sure but i think flan is working with pylons <nisshh> thorwil, no it wasnt me #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-07 <trijntje> hi all, can someone help me with getting quickshot to work? <nisshh> trijntje, what is the problem? <trijntje> I installed it from the lucid PPA, but now it wants a project folder/url. I already tried ubuntu-manual.org but that didnt work <nisshh> trijntje, i dont think the new server works with the old client, you may be out of luck there, i would talk to flan about it <nisshh> flan, ping <nisshh> flan, see above <trijntje> ping flan <nisshh> trijntje, he isnt around on IRC a lot, it might be easier if you email him' <trijntje> I <trijntje> I'm just having some problems getting quickshot to work, I'm not sure I should bother him with that over mail ;) <nisshh> trijntje, email is better than not getting a reply :) <trijntje> nisshh, thats true, ill just send an email to the list <nisshh> trijntje, fair enough <trijntje> best of both worlds i'd think ;) <nisshh> trijntje, you will find that as long as its a genuine issue, flan will be happy that you emailed him, especially if its a quickshot bug <trijntje> Its more that the quickshot interface has changed and I dont know which url to specify for ubuntu-manual <nisshh> trijntje, ah ok, well, if it was me i would email him, its not as if you would be constantly bugging him over email <trijntje> nisshh, thats true, what is is name on Launchpad? <nisshh> trijntje, not sure give me a sec and i can find out though <trijntje> sure, too many members of the launchpad team <trijntje> not my lucky day today <quickshot> hi all, back again with quickshot problems. I got the program running and have taken a screenshot, but when I press "submit" nothing happens <quickshot> ping flan the quickshot wizard <quickshot> anybody who can help me? I've already spend a lot of time trying to get just 2 screenshots, any help or suggestions would be most welcome <quickshot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/672265 <manualbot> quickshot: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/672265) <quickshot> Bug 672265 <manualbot> quickshot: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list index out of range (https://launchpad.net/bugs/672265) <quickshot> Bug 672265 <manualbot> Launchpad bug 672265 in quickshot "quickshot crashed with AttributeError in __init__()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672265 #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-11 <Hannie> Can anyone tell me where I can find information (web page) about the screenshots that were uploaded to the server <Hannie> Hoi trijntje <sagaci> hey, just listening to the uupc, sounds like a huge project. Maybe it'd be an idea to stick with the LTS releases <sagaci> and now just heard popey's idea of LTS releases on the podcast <popey> wasnt my idea :) <popey> others have suggested it before me :) <sagaci> it looks like a good product though, coupled with the ubuntu font, dots and screenshots, it should be part of the ubuntu install <hannie_> godbyk, are you here? <hannie_> godbyk, ping <godbyk> Hello, hannie_. <hannie_> Hi Kevin, I was just chatting with trijntje on the nl channel <hannie_> Did you receive my mails of this morning? <godbyk> hannie_: Yes. I'm responding to them now, in fact. <godbyk> One response sent. Another coming in just a moment. <hannie_> Right, then I won't bother you here. I will go and read your answer <hannie_> If I still encounter any problems I will come back <godbyk> Second email sent. <godbyk> Let me know if you have any further questions. I should be around for quite a while. <hannie_> Kevin, you forgot to answer the most important one <hannie_> About the screenshots <hannie_> The subject is Final stage <godbyk> Oh, whoops. I see that one now. <hannie_> Ok, I'll wait for your answer <godbyk> If you email the two screenshots to me, I will make sure that flan gets then and that they make their way into the repository. <hannie_> I will send them to you right now <godbyk> Okay. <godbyk> I'll see if I can snag the others and put them in the repository. <godbyk> If I can't, I'll let flan know and have him do it soon. <godbyk> Then one of us will send you an email to let you know when they're there. <hannie_> This is really awesome <godbyk> After you've got them downloaded and you rerun make, they should magically appear in the manual. <hannie_> That's what I guessed <hannie_> What a wonderful technique <hannie_> I just sent you the two screenshots <godbyk> Are you working on lucid-e1 or lucid-e2? <godbyk> (If you're unsure, you can run 'bzr info' to find out.) <hannie_> lucid-e1 <godbyk> Okay. <hannie_> Is there much difference between the two? I hope most of the work is doen with e1 <hannie_> done <hannie_> I am now going to work on that line break thing. Thanks again for your help so far <trijntje> hannie_, still no luck with the line breaks? I thought there was a package that could do dutch hyphenations <hannie_> trijntje, see page 18 <hannie_> It is not a matter of hyphenation <hannie_> trijntje, do you want me to send you the updated nl.po? <trijntje> hannie_, sure, but i dont know how to go from .po to .tex <hannie_> ok, then I will send you the updated ubuntu-manual-nl.pdf <hannie_> Mind you, it still needs corrections <godbyk> hannie_: I've added the screenshots to the repository, so you may run 'bzr pull' now. <hannie_> Great, this is fun <hannie_> I am rather curious about the final results <godbyk> The screenshots should appear the next time you rebuild the PDF. Please take a look at them and make sure that they're all correct and look okay. <hannie_> We should say thanks to trijntje, who did the screenshots <hannie_> Kevin, about the credits part one more question <godbyk> Thanks for putting up with our lack of organization, trijntje! :-) <hannie_> Do I have to add the LP names of the Dutch translators manually? <godbyk> hannie_: For the Lucid editions, you do. I would recommend using their full names if they're okay with it. If they prefer their launchpad names be used instead, that's okay, too. <godbyk> hannie_: I'm trying to automate that a bit for the Maverick edition. We'll see how it goes. <hannie_> What about people who only contributed one string? <godbyk> It's up to you whether or not to include them. <godbyk> (One of the many joys of being a translation editor! :-P) <trijntje> godbyk, no problem, most screenshots were taken with quickshot when it still worked, which was quite painless <hannie_> Ok, back to work now. I will let you know if everything went well <godbyk> All right. Good luck! <hannie_> See you! <hannie_> godbyk and trijntje (if you are still here) SUCCESS! All the screenshots are in the pdf <hannie_> I can see that some text is hidden behind some screenshots, but that can be fixed I suppose <jenkins> sorry I have been away for a while life has been busy and my laptop is broken at the moment * nisshh slaps jenkins <nisshh> bad jenkins! <nisshh> :) <jenkins> lol :P <jenkins> I now need to decide on if to get a new laptop or a desktop <nisshh> desktop! <nisshh> jenkins, depends if you need portability or not <jenkins> or find a way to fix the soldering on this thing. <jenkins> thats the trouble portability has been of use to me <nisshh> ah ok <jenkins> desktops offer better value <nisshh> heh, you can say that again :) <nisshh> jenkins, plus, desktops are far easier to upgrade parts in <jenkins> yea exactly <jenkins> what irc app do people use in android <nisshh> hmmm <nisshh> i forgot <nisshh> a guy in my loco knows though * jenkins tries andchat <nisshh> jenkins, your in luck <nisshh> jenkins, supposedly good ones are andchat and YAAIC (Yet Another Android IRC Client) <jenkins> thanks for checking <nisshh> np :) <jenkins-Android> Yey it works! <jenkins> now to take my laptop apart more! <nisshh> cool <nisshh> jenkins-Android, which android phone do you have? desire? droid 2? nexus one? <jenkins-Android> Desire <jenkins-Android> It's very good <nisshh> yeah <ChrisWoollard> Was there are meeting tonight? <ChrisWoollard> If there was I guess I missed it. <ChrisWoollard> Hold on a mo. Its Thursday.... <ChrisWoollard> It's tomorrow isn't it. <ChrisWoollard> Doh #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-12 <hannie> godbyk, ping <hannie> Kevin, if you are present, could you tell me is I can move screenshots to the next page? <hannie> *if <godbyk> hannie: To move the screenshots around, you can't give them a number like 5\baselineskip. <godbyk> hannie: Instead, you can only suggest a position. One of t, b, h, p. <godbyk> For top, bottom, here, page, respectively. <godbyk> You can provide more than one option. <hannie> ah, Some screenshots should be moved <hannie> Suppose: <godbyk> So if the screenshot is at the top of the page and you want it on the bottom of the page, you could say, \screenshot[b]{... <hannie> I want to move a shot from page 17 (bottom) to page 18(top) <hannie> Is that possible? <godbyk> you can try using \screenshot[t], but if that doesn't work, then you'll have to move the \screenshot command to someplace else in the file. <hannie> Ok, I can move the complete paragraph to another place too <hannie> I am going to experiment a bit. Thanks so far. Lots of work to do ): <godbyk> No problem. <godbyk> I have to run off to a meeting, so I'll be away for a few hours. <godbyk> I'll respond to your emails when I get back. <hannie> bye <godbyk> Feel free to ping me here, too. <godbyk> Goodbye. <daker> godbyk, ping <godbyk> I'm back now. <ChrisWoollard> It is very quiet here again #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-14 <trijntje> Hi all, where can the ubuntu-manual.org website be translated? Now the we translated lucid-e1 it would be nice if we could refer people to a dutch website as well <nisshh> trijntje, ask daker about that, but he isnt here atm <trijntje> I will do that, thanks <trijntje> in the mean time, what is the preferred way to spread the manual? Do you guy's prefer it to be only on your page for statistics etc, or doesnt that matter? <nisshh> trijntje, you can of course give out copies or whatnot, or you can refer people to the website, it doesnt really matter <trijntje> nisshh, thanks, thats good to know <nisshh> trijntje, daker is here ^^^ :) <daker> yep <nisshh> daker, trijntje wants to know how to translate ubuntu-manual.org into dutch <daker> yes trijntje actualy dutch is not present on the list <nisshh> heh <nisshh> i think he might be afk :) <nisshh> he did ask me about that 3 hours ago <daker> ok <daker> we will fix that for the next version <nisshh> yeah <daker> but if he want it for the actual version just tell me and i we will add it <nisshh> daker, you lost me there :) <nisshh> godbyk, ping <nisshh> oh bugger <nisshh> godbyk must be asleep <daker> nisshh, [godbyk] idle 17:28:35, signon: Sat Nov 13 19:04:47 <nisshh> ah <nisshh> nvm <nisshh> ill talk to him later <trijntje> daker, hi, I was afk for a while. The dutch manual for lucid-e1 is almost finished, so I was wondering if it would be possible to also translate the website to dutch for users that do not speak English <daker> trijntje, well i don't want people to spend time translating to website, coz we are going to deploy a new website <trijntje> daker, thats good to know, will it still be possible to present a download link to the dutch version of the manual? <daker> yes we can if you are sure that it's everything is ok we can put it <daker> on the website <daker> trijntje, <daker> i am still waiting for benjamin to tell me what i need to change on the new website <daker> once/before we launch the website i'll put the pot file on launchpad <trijntje> daker, ok good. The final editor for Dutch is working on some minor fixes, I expect it to be ready sometime today <trijntje> daker, cool, ill see that coming by on the mailinglist <daker> ok once finished we should notify godbyk, so can host them on the server <trijntje> daker, I will let the editor know, thanks! <daker> trijntje, ok #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-17 <ronnie_vd_c> does someone have information about the ubuntu manual webpage. <ronnie_vd_c> is it going to be replaced? <nisshh> ronnie_vd_c, yep, there is a new version coming soon <daker> ronnie_vd_c, yes (if you mean the website) <nisshh> hehe <daker> ^^ <ronnie_vd_c> ok, anyone knows if it is in the new version possible to select the language by urr or browser language? <daker> ronnie_vd_c, yes :) <ronnie_vd_c> ok, thx. Thats all i need to know atm #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-18 <hannie> godbyk, ping <hannie> Wazzzaaa, ping <Wazzzaaa> Hi hannie <hannie> Hoi Wazzzaaa <hannie> Ik wilde even vertellen dat ik wat foutjes aan het corrigeren ben <hannie> En problemen oplossen <Wazzzaaa> This is an english channel.. <hannie> Sorry <hannie> I am busy correcting our nl.po file <Wazzzaaa> :) <UndiFineD> :) <Wazzzaaa> Nice #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-20 <nisshh> godbyk, have you seen this?:http://twitter.com/#!/humphreybc/status/5803653575217152 <godbyk> nisshh: Yeah, he IMed me and gave me the link. <godbyk> brb. gonna reboot. #ubuntu-manual 2010-11-21 <c7p> hello all <semioticrobotic> hey c7p <Muscovy> Hello. <Muscovy> Is the meeting in a few minutes? <Muscovy> I can never remember which time of day 12 AM and PM are. <c7p> yes i think <c7p> if we are 5 people and more i think we can start in ten minutes if there is no denial <ChrisWoollard> Hello, 9 now <semioticrobotic> right-o <trijntje> add one lurker ;) <godbyk> I'm here too. <c7p> nice we are going well :) <ChrisWoollard> I almost missed it. I format that our clocks changed a couple of weeks ago <godbyk> I had scheduled it on my calendar for 2100 UTC for some reason. <daker> o/ <ChrisWoollard> can somebody post the links to the notes. I want to read in advance <c7p> look at these http://typewith.me/c6QnDtVHp6 , http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/zqYcMRpqWX if you hadn't, add your thoughts and we are waiting another 5 mins for others <hannie> Is this where the meeting is? <c7p> kevin can you chair ? <c7p> here hannie <hannie> ok, hi everybody <godbyk> Hello, Hannie. <godbyk> c7p: Sure, if you don't want to. <ChrisWoollard> hey Hannie <godbyk> I'll start it in just a moment. <c7p> i dont know how these things work so you are the most suitable <c7p> ok <godbyk> Okay, we'll see if I can remember how this works. :-) <godbyk> #startmeeting <MootBot> Meeting started at 14:03. The chair is godbyk. <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] <c7p> as it may have passed your mind there are some problem regarding the function of the project <godbyk> [TOPIC] State of the Project <MootBot> New Topic: State of the Project <c7p> is there any progress in maverick ? <ChrisWoollard> I haven't seen much. Just a couple of bugs <godbyk> I haven't seen any commit activity lately, either. <c7p> who are the editors ? <semioticrobotic> it seems to me that things are in a holding pattern, but no one quite know what we're holding for <ChrisWoollard> I am one I guess <Muscovy> I'm a somewhat inactive editor. * semioticrobotic raises hand <semioticrobotic> editor <Muscovy> I've been unable to really find issues lately though. <Muscovy> Which is good news. <c7p> ok we have to set the roles <c7p> who is doing what ? <semioticrobotic> I typically stick to the final third of the manual <semioticrobotic> reading/re-reading when commits have been made, etc. <ChrisWoollard> I have been fixing bugs that people logged. + have done abit of proof reading <ChrisWoollard> I think I have been about the only one comiting recently <godbyk> My role is to maintain the interior book design, write LaTeX code, and help translators through the editing process. <c7p> do we know what should be written or removed ? <semioticrobotic> from my perspective, the final third of the manual is looking pretty good <hannie> Are people responsible for certain chapters? <ChrisWoollard> I know screenshots are outstanding <semioticrobotic> yes, save for screenshots <ChrisWoollard> I don't think so <c7p> how the quickshot server is going ? <semioticrobotic> hannie: at one time, yes; we had specific individuals assigned as writers and editors of each chapter <ChrisWoollard> I know the installation chapter needs to be updated <Muscovy> I've been looking mainly at the install section, because if a user hits an issue there, bad things happen. <ChrisWoollard> Muscovy: Have you updated it for the new installer? <Muscovy> Not entirely. <Muscovy> :| <ChrisWoollard> I have also been posting builds for people to check. <Muscovy> WHere are they? <c7p> this should be done, if you haven't much time probably one editor could help <Muscovy> I still have an old one. <ChrisWoollard> I will post a link in a mo <ChrisWoollard> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/382986/ubuntu-manual/UbuntuManual.html <MootBot> LINK received: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/382986/ubuntu-manual/UbuntuManual.html <ChrisWoollard> Hmm, I am 2 revisions behind. <c7p> so Muscovy can you manage the installation section ? <Muscovy> I think I can. <ChrisWoollard> I'll post a new one in a few mins <hannie> Is Revision 71 a finished version of Maverick? <c7p> ok if you want more help we could probably find one more volunteer <godbyk> hannie: There isn't a finalized version of Maverick yet. <ChrisWoollard> it is a point in time version <Muscovy> My time might be erratic, so another person would be a good idea if we want that chapter "done" within a week. <ChrisWoollard> just so things can be checked <semioticrobotic> If someone notifies me that the installation chapter has been updated, I can probably proof it, but wouldn't be able to turn it around in a week <c7p> is there anyone who can help Muscovy ? <ChrisWoollard> when it is updated I will post a new revision <semioticrobotic> thanks, ChrisWoollard <hannie> Is there much changed in the installation part? <semioticrobotic> for Maverick, yes, from what I understand <hannie> Maverick < Lucid <semioticrobotic> (though I am still using the LTS) <ChrisWoollard> I think a lot. The whole installation routine was replaced <godbyk> The installation is completely different in Maverick. <hannie> ok <hannie> I only upgraded <Muscovy> The Maverick installed has a new UI, and the steps have changed a bit. <semioticrobotic> yes <hannie> So the screenshots are also different <Muscovy> Yep. <c7p> hm we may could appeal some bloggers to help on writing the installation section <ChrisWoollard> I have updated the revision to 73 <Muscovy> Though wouldn't we take new ones anyway because of the theme? <hannie> Are there chapters in which hardly anything changed? <hannie> e.g. command line <Muscovy> A few I think. <Muscovy> I doubt Firefox had a revolution, for example. <godbyk> Though the command-line chapter was merged with another chapter for maverick. <ChrisWoollard> I can help with the installation a bit also. Not sure what time i have though <hannie> So those do not need much attention <michael_k> 4 & 5 I have reviewed and they are OK <ChrisWoollard> I think that the around desktop chapter is fairly ok. <c7p> nice <Muscovy> I would think Shotwell, install, and desktop would need the most attention, since they're important or really different. <ChrisWoollard> I did shotwell. <hannie> So only a few capters need special attention <c7p> Chris and Muscovy if you could work on installation that would be nice, you can set the scedule by your own <ChrisWoollard> I know that Ubuntu One and Rhythembox are complete <hannie> command-line merged with what? <c7p> so many months little things have be done so 2-3 weeks more are almost trivial <godbyk> hannie: with advanced topics or somesuch. <ChrisWoollard> Also The Ubuntu Desktop chapter is complete. <c7p> cool <ChrisWoollard> Except screenshots <c7p> jenkins and flan was in charge of the whole screenshots stuff (sorry if i have forgotten anyone) <godbyk> Okay, can we compose a list of chapters that still need to be reviews and the people assigned to them? <semioticrobotic> hannie: I have completed the merge of the command-line chapter with the "advanced topics" chapter <c7p> for the list http://typewith.me/M4XsjX96MG <hannie> Do we have the same number of chapters in Maverick? <c7p> prologue isnt the same ? <semioticrobotic> hannie: No. <semioticrobotic> the merge creates one fewer chapter <godbyk> Okay, if you've agreed to edit a chapter, please add your name to the list: http://typewith.me/M4XsjX96MG <c7p> learning more is ok <ChrisWoollard> I think I looked over prologue <godbyk> Or if the chapter has already been edited and is ready, note that. <hannie> As a translator I want to know if chapters that are finished can be translated <c7p> michael_k could you add on the list the proof-read chapters ? <michael_k> just did it <c7p> you would better wait hannie <c7p> thanks <semioticrobotic> okay, things are shaping up <c7p> now there is a clear picture i think <c7p> nice guys <godbyk> As you're reviewing the chapters, please make a list of any screenshots that should be added or changed. <godbyk> (If you want to remove a screenshot, just remove the \screenshot command.) <michael_k> ??? <godbyk> That way we can get a list of required screenshots to the Quickshot folks and have them setup Quickshot. <semioticrobotic> godbyk: are we leaving some screenshots in place despite the slightly different visual appearance of Maverick? <godbyk> semioticrobotic: No, all the existing screenshots will be retaken. <semioticrobotic> okay, thanks <godbyk> I mean if a screenshot should be of something different, we need a new description. <semioticrobotic> right <c7p> Alex and Chris if you could communicate with each other that will make things even easier <michael_k> from where should we remove the \scrennshot command? <semioticrobotic> but if the only change to the shot is the theme/buttons, don't make a note? <godbyk> michael_k: From the .tex file that you're editing. <godbyk> semioticrobotic: Correct. <semioticrobotic> godbyk: gotcha, thanks <michael_k> godbyk, I am not edting tex files, just proofreading and reviewing content <godbyk> michael_k: In that case, just file a bug. <michael_k> godbyk, OK! <ChrisWoollard> That is good. I will look over any bugs filed. <godbyk> c7p: Anything else you want to discuss under this item? <c7p> who is in charge of the screenshots <godbyk> I usually harass flan and jenkins about screenshot/quickshot stuff. <semioticrobotic> c7p: I think the quickshot team is on that * semioticrobotic nods <c7p> ok we will send them a mail <c7p> move on ? <semioticrobotic> ready <c7p> is there anything else ? <hannie> Chapter Troubleshooting has no name <michael_k> what's wrong with Truobleshooting? <c7p> what do you mean ? <godbyk> It's a short chapter (only 8 pages) if someone wants to sign up as an editor for that chapter. <hannie> Perhaps there are no changes to this chapter <semioticrobotic> I recall looking at Troubleshooting several weeks ago, but it's been too long to remember specifics. We should review a ChrisWoollard daily build pdf <c7p> yes there are no changes in that chapter from what i see, also it has been proof-read <zkriesse_> Hey <zkriesse_> Meeting I missed?'b <godbyk> okay. <ChrisWoollard> not so much a daily as a, when things change build. <semioticrobotic> right :) <godbyk> So, next up... <godbyk> [TOPIC] Basic functional principles of project <MootBot> New Topic: Basic functional principles of project <c7p> ok <c7p> as you can see there are some problems in the function of the project <c7p> so take a look on http://typewith.me/c6QnDtVHp6 <c7p> there are listed 7 of the most common problems in teams <c7p> what do you think affects our project <godbyk> I think we're experiencing a few of those problems. <semioticrobotic> yes <hannie> There doesn't necessarily have to be one leader <hannie> More than one could also work <godbyk> hannie: True. As long as people are filling the required roles. <michael_k> a coordinator is neded though <c7p> so let's select what do we thing that affect the project so we have a base for the next of the meeting <semioticrobotic> but godbyk's suggestion regarding a release coordinator is a good one <hannie> Task management <c7p> i agree godbyk is doing great and Chris on his role <michael_k> +1 <godbyk> I'd say we have issues with leadership, participation, and perhaps a bit of procrastination. <semioticrobotic> I would also note a lack of clearly defined roles <ChrisWoollard> + certain core members of the team seem to never be around. <godbyk> semioticrobotic: I agree on the well-defined roles. <c7p> yes that also affects, that i think we should clear today <c7p> or at least most of this subject's part <godbyk> I think there's been a shift in the core members. Many of them have been absent from the project (and so they aren't really core members any longer). <semioticrobotic> yes <c7p> yes <godbyk> The problem is that we need others to step into those roles. <hannie> So there is going to be a reshuffle <semioticrobotic> for instance, Jamin Day has recently stepped down as head of editing, but no one has volunteered to coordinate editors <c7p> ok we need a list of all active core members <godbyk> A list of active members. <c7p> http://typewith.me/dV3ZKFh1fp <MootBot> LINK received: http://typewith.me/dV3ZKFh1fp <c7p> fill the list if you are a core member <c7p> and also add your role specifically <c7p> for example john (1st chapter) etc <godbyk> (be back in just a moment) <c7p> ok <c7p> semioticrobotic, ChrisWoollard are you in commited to any of the chapters of the book ? <semioticrobotic> c7p: yes <ChrisWoollard> yes <c7p> when the list will be filled we will have a better understanding of the potential of the team <c7p> which is vital of course for the work to be done and the future of the project <semioticrobotic> unfortunately, friends, I have to run <godbyk> Okay. See you later, semioticrobotic. Thanks for coming! <semioticrobotic> but I will catch up on the remainder of the meeting from notes tomorrow morning <semioticrobotic> sorry! <semioticrobotic> take care, godbyk <c7p> cool cya semioticrobotic <c7p> godbyk: can you send a mail to all the editors telling them about this list ? <c7p> so we can see what are the empty spaces <ChrisWoollard> I do Ubuntu Desktop CHapter. <godbyk> c7p: You mean the ubuntu-manual-editors mailing list? <hannie> Are there no writers present? <c7p> oh is there this list, i didn't know that <ChrisWoollard> Am I on that list? <c7p> i guess yes <godbyk> Yeah, it doesn't get used very much at all, though. <Muscovy> I didn't know there was an editors list. <michael_k> maybe we sholud start using it then <Muscovy> I feel using the main one is more convenient though. <godbyk> Let me see who's on it these days. <c7p> ok ty <godbyk> Generally we use the main one for most everything. <c7p> main list is fine it think <c7p> so what's next <c7p> should we appeal new members (based on the list) ? <godbyk> The editors list was just someplace where we could discuss things in a bit more detail (without all the outside chatter). <godbyk> [TOPIC] Recruiting <MootBot> New Topic: Recruiting <godbyk> Once we know what roles we need to fill and where we need help, we should start recruiting. <ChrisWoollard> I know Ben was supposed to post to the mailing list for recruitment. <c7p> yes i think we just have to spread the word <michael_k> LOL!!! if we solve this one we will get the FLOSS Nobel <ChrisWoollard> I could ask popey to mention recruitment on the uupc if you want? <c7p> michael_k: lol <c7p> yes that could be nice <c7p> after the list is completed <godbyk> Before we start asking everyone for help, we should have a concise list of tasks that need to be accomplished and roles that need to be taken on. <godbyk> That way we have things ready for people to do when they show up asking how they can help. <c7p> i agree on that <michael_k> and each of us could also try to remind to people in our frums/blogs/ lists etc <humphreybc-ipad> Hi guys <c7p> hello humphreybc-ipad <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc-ipad. I gave you the wrong time yesterday apparently. Sorry about that! <godbyk> humphreybc-ipad: I almost missed the meeting myself. <zkriesse_> Lol <zkriesse_> Iowa <humphreybc-ipad> godbyk: Ah, what time did it start? <thorwil> godbyk: drive-by comment: i will most likely stay available to deal with the titlepage like in the past. good night! <zkriesse_> Argh dang iPod spell check <godbyk> humphreybc-ipad: An hour ago. <humphreybc-ipad> Oh <zkriesse_> Don't worry humphreybc-ipad I missed it too <humphreybc-ipad> Right <humphreybc-ipad> What'd I miss? <godbyk> humphreybc-ipad: We discussed the current state of the maverick edition. <hannie> Tasks: should there be a representative for translators? <c7p> humphreybc-ipad: http://pastebin.com/bLPkcMGd <godbyk> humphreybc-ipad: Folks have signed up to edit chapters: http://typewith.me/M4XsjX96MG <hannie> Or is that godbyk's department? <popey> ChrisWoollard: we mentioned the manual project last week :) <godbyk> hannie: Looking at the credits in the manual, jenkins handled creating the .po files. <popey> ChrisWoollard: what specifically did you want us to say? <ChrisWoollard> Nothinhg yet. We are going to recruit new members <popey> ok <c7p> after this list is filled http://typewith.me/dV3ZKFh1fp <humphreybc-ipad> popey: What did you say last week? <ChrisWoollard> we need to collate a list of tasks first <godbyk> hannie: I've been
{'channel': 'ubuntu-manual', 'month': 11}