#ubuntu+1 2008-01-01 <Oli``> Any programmers in the room? I'm looking to get started programming GTK+ apps. I only moved to Linux full-time a couple of months ago but before then I was fairly accomplished with C#, Java, PHP and even C when I needed it... So yeah, I'm just looking for opinions on where to start =) <linxeh> Oli``: #ubuntu-offtopic for a start :) <Oli``> boo <linxeh> seriously :) <linxeh> this channel is for development / problems with Hardy <Hobbsee> Oli``: on applications that you like the look of, and can see where you'd like to imporve them <pwnguin> Oli``: add mime support to liferea ;) <pwnguin> or write a feature into rhythmbox to let me put a different playlist on default on startup <hwilde> jtt, if icewm is the thing that it might not be gdm it might be metacity <hwilde> jtt, i ran pure gnome with gdm and ti seems fine. i ran kde with kdm and it was also fine. xfce also works as does icewm. the only thing i have found that crashes is metacity <hwilde> i can go into icewm and type in nautilus and it loads up most of gnome and that is also fine <tcpdumpgod> Hey guys whats goin gon. <tcpdumpgod> Going on* <crimsun> ok, time to get this alsa/oss4[.0] switcher off the ground. <tcpdumpgod> GOD having a shared hosting plan sucks. <tcpdumpgod> Dreamhost got mad at me for installing torrentflux to download FreeBSD BOOT ONLY ISOs! <Gnine> writing hardy-desktop-i386 to cd-r <Gnine> works on hardy <Gnine> matter of fact.. i need to test boot this one too.. <tcpdumpgod> hmm <shirish> does anybody when bug 176487 is going to be resolved? <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176487 in openoffice.org "openoffice.org uninstallable due to build failure" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176487 <crimsun> shirish: yes, it will. <crimsun> consider that it is still holiday for the developer in charge of OO.o (Chris C.) <shirish> ok cool, thanx crimsun :) <Sonicadvance1> I'm having troubles sharing a folder, is this a known problem? <simonova> hardy isn't recognizing gtk+ libraries during ./configure in edubuntu <simonova> or at least for the program I'm trying to configure <yotux> Is there a fix for the borken libstdc++6 out? <yotux> Or better yet a place that I can read about it <slipttees> yo everyone <slipttees> why ubuntu hardy don't going with cd/dvd burn "brasero" and irc client by default ? <slipttees> sorry my pour english :S <bazhang> for hardy? or 7.10? <Infecto> dous some one have familiar problems with touch pad on hardy? <Infecto> i cant move coursor smoothly <Infecto> when i try do it slowly <Infecto> on fast move works ok <shirish> anybody knows where martin pitti has moved his debug symbols repository? <geser> shirish: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-November/000355.html <shirish> geser: thanx, reading it as we speak <runge> hi. is there a list of what the developers think will be in hardy hardon? <bigon> Zdra: je genere comment les marshals moi :o <Zdra> bigon: wrong channel ? <bigon> damm <alex_mayorga> !b43 <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about b43 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi <cafuego> b43 is included in the 2.6.24+ kernels. You'll need firmware. <alex_mayorga> can you please elaborate, I updated from feisty but the restricted manger still pulls bcm <alex_mayorga> thanks in advance <cafuego> That's fine then. Gutsy uses bcm43xx. <cafuego> Just use bcm43xx-fwcutter <alex_mayorga> I missed to point that from gutsy I jumped to hardy, how do I go from bcm to b43? <cafuego> Use the b43-fwcutter and make sure bcm43xx doesn't load (you can blacklist it) <cafuego> http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 has all the info. <alex_mayorga> in hardy, restricted manager still tries to pull bcm and no b43, is that a known bug? <alex_mayorga> I'll check that link, thanks <cafuego> Dunno, not using hardy. <alex_mayorga> cafuego, how do I do the blacklisting? <alex_mayorga> can I apt renove bcm? <cafuego> aladd an entry to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist #ubuntu+1 2008-01-02 <Artimus> Did those new KDE4 packages "fix" KDE4 in Hardy? I lost my hardy virtual machine, so I'll be reinstalling tomorrow. I'm curious if I'll have KDE4 to look forward to. <bardyr> !info linux-image-generic <ubotu> linux-image-generic: Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 156.14.161.142.2 (hardy), package size 25 kB, installed size 52 kB <bardyr> !info nvidia-glx-new <ubotu> nvidia-glx-new: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 100.14.19+156.14.161.142-2.8 (hardy), package size 4897 kB, installed size 14844 kB <derekS> hi. has anyone else come across a problem with compiz crashing? The compiz.real package uses 100% of the cpu for a short time then the wm dies. i am using nvidia-glx-new (if that makes a difference) and everything is vanilla from the hardy repos. <crdlb> derekS: try disabling the animation plugin <derekS> crdlb: hmm, can you help me out with how? <crdlb> do you have ccsm installed? <derekS> crdlb: let me check, i typically don't play with compiz stuff because i don't care about effects <crdlb> !ccsm <ubotu> To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), install 'compizconfig-settings-manager'. A new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz-fusion <derekS> simple-ccsm is not installed <crdlb> the package name is 'compizconfig-settings-manager' <derekS> nope, i have a bunch of libconizconfig packages installed (2 of them) but none by that name <crdlb> so install it ... :) <derekS> haha <derekS> ok <derekS> but if its not installed, why would it be crashing? <crdlb> because the animation plugin (which is enabled by default) seems to cause lockups and such <crdlb> only on nvidia afaik <derekS> crdlb: now its making sense, and this just allows me to turn it off :) <crdlb> yeah <crimsun> crdlb: no, it's a known issue and is fixed in hardy. <derekS> crimsun: i am using hardy.... and just did a full upgrade to make sure i am using latest <derekS> only thing that was kept back was epiphany, iirc <crimsun> derekS: does it match bug 175744? <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175744 in compiz "Hardy freezes when using compiz" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175744 <derekS> crimsun: checking <crdlb> that doesn't mean there's no another problem with animation :) <crdlb> not* <crimsun> crdlb: certainly not, which is why I'm interested in narrow it down <crimsun> narrowing* <derekS> crimsun: prob not the same bug, my system doesn't lock up... compiz usually just crashes <crdlb> derekS: is there something you're usually doing that causes it? <derekS> crdlb: no, its as soon as i log into gnome, the system becomes slow for like 90 seconds, then poof there goes my wm (and compiz.real dies) <crdlb> hrm <derekS> just disabled animations <derekS> lets see if that helped <crdlb> if that doesn't help, try: compiz.real --replace decoration move resize <derekS> crdlb: it worked :) <derekS> i think <crimsun> make sure you file a bug :-) <crdlb> derekS: disabling animation worked? <derekS> crdlb: yeah <derekS> crimsun: going to do that now <derekS> crimsun: seems its bug 102883 <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102883 in compiz "[apport] compiz.real crashed with SIGSEGV after restarting Gnome" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102883 <Toma-> has rtl8180 been dropped from hardy? <Toma-> (the module) <Toma-> Would the build log give suggestions as to why certain modules are skipped in the kernel build? <Hobbsee> Toma-: probably <Toma-> thx <Toma-> grr cant find a build log :( <Toma-> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/linux-source-507-653-2812 * Hobbsee suspects some of them have been told not to build <Toma-> ..but im using the built package :/ <e_r_c_e> hello <e_r_c_e> i'm so stupid :) <e_r_c_e> i need to format floppy in 8.04 <e_r_c_e> how to? <Toma-> mkfs.whatever <Toma-> same as every other release of ubuntu <e_r_c_e> mkfs floppy0 <e_r_c_e> or mkfs.floppy0 <Toma-> hmmm should you be running hardy? <e_r_c_e> yes <e_r_c_e> hardy is my comp <Toma-> should you be formatting floppies then? :) <e_r_c_e> moment please <Toma-> 'man mkfs' <Toma-> Hobbseeâ where can I find a build log for at least 1 of the hardy kernel? <e_r_c_e> MKFS-Build a Linux file system <e_r_c_e> what IF i want FAT 32 <e_r_c_e> ? <nanonyme> should you be using hardy if you don't know how to use format utilities in linux? :) <Toma-> scroll down to see also <Hobbsee> nanonyme: i don't know that either <Hobbsee> but this guy is seeming fairly clueless <e_r_c_e> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50487/ <Hobbsee> Toma-: it's under linux now * nanonyme starts "when is it going to fail" timer about now <Hobbsee> Toma-: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds?build_text=linux&build_state=all <Toma-> thanks a bunch! * nanonyme eyerolls at the failed ppc restricted modules build log <nanonyme> "/bin/sh: /usr/bin/gcc-4.1: not found <nanonyme> " o.O <Toma-> lawl <nanonyme> someone should tell ross to fix his build environment... <Hobbsee> has gcc even built then? * nanonyme shrugs <Toma-> well this has been a huge cup of fail for me. <Hobbsee> curse it. <nanonyme> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/156.14.161.142-2.8/+build/478334 build environment should already have been fully built to even attempt that <Hobbsee> nanonyme: that would suggest that gcc died. <Hobbsee> yup <Toma-> rtl8180.ko has been silently taken out :( <Toma-> i suspect the CIA >_> <nanonyme> Hobbsee, hmm, i guess. to me it just looked as if it's trying to use gcc 4.1 when it didn't exist on the computer <Hobbsee> er, gcc-4.1 is not part of build-essentials anymore, i expect <nanonyme> what is, 4.2? <Hobbsee> yes <nanonyme> right <nanonyme> so just a slight version-mismatch probably then <Hobbsee> means the kernel team screwed up, it appaers <nanonyme> they've probably been notified already, right? <Hobbsee> oh, those l-r-m are old anyway <nanonyme> so yes <Hobbsee> erm, at least, should be. <Toma-> So... is there anyway to find out where this module has gone? and when? <DOLLY> wann kommt die ubuntu 8.04 beta raus? <hit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule <DOLLY> danke <Arjun> hey every one <Arjun> MMMM <Arjun> ok well Ive just installed ubuntu for the first time and it has picked up my ethernet card <Arjun> it however doesnt wanna ping my router and can not b pinged from other pcs <Arjun> I can ping myself though <Arjun> anyhelp please kinda new to the whole linux thung <Arjun> really dont wanna go back to the evilness of satans os <Arjun> anyone thewre <Arjun> there ?? <Arjun> oops wrong channel <Arjun> bye <Arjun> #ubuntu <Arjun> argh <i00_000i> how to stop daemons from starting up automatically during booting <pvandewyngaerde> edit/remove the startup scripts ? <i00_000i> but wher r they...in fedora one can control the services from /sbin/services but like that in ubuntu <sn0> i00_000i try system > administration > services <i00_000i> sn0: entire list is not ther ...i installed the server edition ...plz tell me how to stop hal daemon <i00_000i> sn0: one can start and stop hal daemon from /sbin/services in fedora but itz not available in ubuntu <sn0> i00_000i ok well working from the server you can manually start / stop the services from init.d <i00_000i> sn0: but hal daemon in not in /etc/init.d <i00_000i> sn0: i looked for httpd also itz also not ther <sn0> i00_000i im not sure this is a ubuntu development version question, but fedora works differenty to ubuntu, so if it was httpd in fedora, this is called apache or apache2 in ubuntu <sn0> for eg sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart <Pici> i00_000i: Are you using Hardy/8.04? <sn0> hal should be likewise, /etc/init.d/hal but im just checking on my vm image <i00_000i> Pici: not 7.o4 <Pici> i00_000i: This channel is only for 8.04/Hardy support. <sn0> i00_000i you can ask in #ubuntu , or we can talk about it in there :) <i00_000i> sn0: i have been using fedora for a long time jst tried ubuntu as fedora is not recognising my laptops keyboard.. <bardyr> !info nvidia-glx-new <ubotu> nvidia-glx-new: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver. In component restricted, is optional. Version 100.14.19+156.14.161.142-2.8 (hardy), package size 4897 kB, installed size 14844 kB <bardyr> anyone got and idea when the new nvidia driver is in or when the kernel is updated <bardyr> its a bit behind the ubuntu kernel git tree <aslaen> hello, I am running the latest ubuntu hardy x86_64 alpha.. I installed elisa using apt-get install elisa, and it installed fine. When I try to launch it it never opens a UI. Here is the output from terminal.. http://nopaste.com/p/aM7UkgiP2 <gouchi> Hi there <gouchi> is it plan to add support for OpenChrome card in Hardy <gouchi> I mean include the X.org driver directly in the CD <gouchi> didn't find any spec <Spec> gouchi: 'sup <gouchi> Spec : ? <Spec> <gouchi> didn't find any spec <aslaen> has anyone here successfully run elisa using the amd64 debs in hardy universe repo? <Spec> gouchi: what's OpenChrome? <jtholmes> can anyone tell me how i find out who in the Ubuntu org is responsible for gdm <awen_> jtholmes: look at the bug contacts for the package on launchpad ? <jtholmes> awen_, thanks will do <tcpdumpgod> Okay, im going to hang out in here. <tcpdumpgod> Too many noobs in #ubuntu <Oli``> How stable is Hardy? <bardyr> Oli``, as stable as you can except from a ubuntu alpha2 <Oli``> I can't remember when I jumped onto Gutsy but I think it was about the same sort of time... I'm just getting bored of the monotony of a stable system ^_^ <bardyr> heh <bardyr> im been on hardy but it was just too unstable for me <bardyr> waiting for the new nvida driver to be upped and im on it again <awen_> Oli``: Kubuntu seems incredible stable for a alpha (at least with kde 3.5.*) #ubuntu+1 2008-01-03 <joumetal> anyone having browser problems after xulrunner-1.9 update? <Vuen> hey guys, will hardy support tcl 8.5? <joumetal> Vuen yes according to packages.ubuntu.com <Vuen> oh goodie :) <Vuen> i went to archive.ubuntu.com and looked through the package list for hardy, and tcl8.5 wasn't in it <Vuen> hmm, see tcl on packages.ubuntu.com still has version 8.4.16-1 <Vuen> oh, but there are tcl8.5 packages. nevermind. <Vuen> awesome by the way. <se7en> what do i do about E:internal error, could not perform immediate configuration (2) on libstdc++6 <se7en> i get that error in virtualbox after apt-get upgrade <lennie> hi,all <lennie> My network-manager-gnome is broken <lennie> the unlock button is greyed <lennie> if run gksu network-admin in a terminal,I got <lennie> ** (network-admin:29187): WARNING **: Error doing GetSessionForUnixProcess on ConsoleKit: org.freedesktop.DBus.GLib.UnmappedError.CkManagerError.Code0: Unable to lookup session information for process '29187' <lennie> ** (network-admin:29187): CRITICAL **: Unable to lookup session information for process '29187' <lennie> any advice? <elkbuntu> lennie, reported as a bug? <lennie> haven't <lennie> gnome-system-administration-network, this is normal <lennie> 1.I don't know it is a bug or only my individual problem <lennie> 2.I don't know it is a bug of which package <danf_1979> Hi, I have just dist-upgraded to hardy (kubuntu) and now my desktop is full of icons, one for every file or directory in /. Desktop directory has no files though, I just can see the icons when I look my desktop. Any clues? <danf_1979> gtk apps look ugly, what happened to gtk-qt-engine? Isn't it working anymore? I have it installed... <danf_1979> gtk apps look ugly, what happened to gtk-qt-engine? Isn't it working anymore in hardy? <amikrop> Greetings. System->About Ubuntu has been removed (and I still can't realize how it happened). Is there any way to bring it back? Thanks. <amikrop> Any help, please? <danf_1979> amikrop, maybe this helps: aptitude search gnome | grep about <amikrop> danf_1979: ~$ aptitude search gnome | grep about <amikrop> i gnome-about - The GNOME about box <amikrop> danf_1979: I miss the "About Ubuntu" entry, the "About GNOME" is still there. <danf_1979> Ah, sorry, it was just my guess; I use kubuntu. <amikrop> danf_1979: OK. Thanks, anyway :-) <danf_1979> you could create a new user and check if it is there or not <amikrop> danf_1979: Good suggestion. I will try. Thank you. <amikrop> danf_1979: Still not there. Seems it has been completely removed from my machine, somehow :( <head_victim> I've spent a bit of time looking around for some fixes as I rebooted my pc and now network-admin won't function. Is there currently any workarounds for this I couldn't locate myself? <IdleOne> !info acl <ubotu> acl: Access control list utilities. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.45-1 (hardy), package size 43 kB, installed size 260 kB <yotux> Is there a place with know issues in hardy? <erichj> launchpad.net <yotux> I am using hardy and when I find things that may be broken should i file bugs reports? <geser> yotux: yes please but check first if it is already filed <yotux> ok I am having problems with the clock in gnome I filled a report <yotux> does hardy have its down bug page in launchpad? <Pici> yotux: s/down/own? If so, then nope. <Pici> I always put the release name in my bug titles though, like [hardy] <yotux> thankz sorry I not a programmer and want to help just don't know where to help out <bardyr> hey <bardyr> new nvidia driver and kernel, this is a good day :) <sparr_w> will heron kubuntu have compiz by default? <sparr_w> hardy, that is <bardyr> yea if you got the driver enabled <Amaranth> sparr_w: No <Amaranth> sparr_w: The KDE4 version will have kwin with compositing that you can enable <sparr_w> :( <sparr_w> kubuntu and ubuntu are diverging too much imho <Amaranth> Err, they're different things <sparr_w> they have large overlap. and differences. imagine the venn diagram of *buntu, ubuntu and kubuntu are sliding apart and overlapping less <Amaranth> This is GNOME vs KDE differences <sparr_w> compiz is DE-agnostic, so i disagree <Amaranth> And I'm a compiz dev, I disagree with that :p <Amaranth> It's design makes it possible to be DE-agnostic but more work has been done both upstream and in Ubuntu to fit with GNOME than KDE <Amaranth> Its <sparr_w> ignoring for the moment that i still use beryl because compiz in feisty doesnt work for me <sparr_w> err <sparr_w> gutsy <Amaranth> blacklisted? <sparr_w> what? <Pici> !cfbl <ubotu> Desktop Effects are supported on graphics cards that use the default Intel and ATI drivers and the restricted !NVIDIA drivers, except for the following, which are blacklisted due to stability/compatibility issues: Intel 965, ATI Rs480 and Rv350, ATI Mobility x300, x600 and x700 - Join #compiz-fusion for anything not officially supported by Ubuntu <sparr_w> im using intel 82865G with the i810 driver, and nvidia 7950 with the restricted nvidia drivers, and neither works <sparr_w> with varying results depending on the phase of the moon when i try <sparr_w> sometimes X crashes, sometimes i get unmanaged windows, sometimes i get window decorations with graphically corrupt effects <scizzo-> should warn people to use the new nvidia drivers btw <h3sp4wn> What is there some non beta ones out now? <scizzo-> the 169.07 is known to put the fan on the GPU to run at max speed for some cards <scizzo-> I wanted to see if they did on mine and well you can guess the result <scizzo-> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=104713 <scizzo-> 169.04 seems to be the version that people are recommending instead of 169.07 <scizzo-> at the moment the nvidia team are have a _later_ stable release for the new drivers to fix that fan issue <h3sp4wn> scizzo-: Not an issue for me as I don't use cards with fans (don't like the noise) <scizzo-> h3sp4wn: hehe... <scizzo-> h3sp4wn: well....as you can see its a thing that nvidia has picked up really <limac> anyone here tried kubuntu hardy, if yes how is it? <henrix> hi! I am having a crash of lilypond. anyone that can help? <henrix> there is a message: "lilypond: Symbol `scm_i_freelist' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking" <shirish> hi all, after running today's updates, I am not able to use power management as in I put the display to sleep when inactive for 2 minutes & it doesn't do it, any ideas anybody? #ubuntu+1 2008-01-04 <hit> python-glade2 has just got broken <hit> i'm asked to do apt-get install -f, but it will remove almost everything <hit> including ubuntu-desktop and so on <h3sp4wn> hit: use aptitude <h3sp4wn> see what it suggests <hit> also my tab isnt working anymore in terminal <hit> aptitude seemd work <hit> but this tab-thing <hit> works with folders, but that's all <h3sp4wn> there is no folders <hit> ah what the hell <hit> *compiling supertux* <mbt> anyone know why the terminal is now attempting to transliterate unicode characters when they are input? <graft> yo, any idea when all these kde4 packages are going to be un-broken? <Hobbsee> "when they're done" <dastal> anyone here use usenet? <igoogle> hi guys <mbt> ello <igoogle> i use 8.04 now <igoogle> it always shutdown <mbt> What do you mean? <mbt> Anyone notice some breakage in the terminal in Hardy, particularly with respect to unicode character input and output? <graft> nope, no breakage here <graft> well, dnno about input <graft> but output seems fine <graft> i think <bazhang> same here <mbt> just seems that man pages do not appear right (lots of unicode ? markings of missing glyphs). On entering unicode char 2122, I get a transliterated (TM) instead of â¢. <mbt> Same for the copyright, reg trademark, Ã¦ and Å symbols and ligatures. <bazhang> well it is alpha 2 :} <graft> hrmmm <graft> using http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt i get lots of boxen <mbt> Egads. Same here. I had not thought to try that file. <graft> but i have no idea how it compares to gutsy <graft> oh wait i have a gutsy box, hold on a sec <mbt> I am using the settings from my Gutsy box---unicode in gnome-terminal was working great for me there. <graft> oh wait, the terminal is the same, duh <mbt> "man ls" has issues for me, too <graft> seems similar in gutsy <mbt> I thought maybe something was up, but when I rebooted back to Gutsy it all works correctly, no transliterating and such <graft> actually seems better in hardy <graft> hrm... well seems different in hardy, anyway <mbt> I noticed the transliterating only because I use an international keyboard, and now rÃ©sumÃ© appears as "r?sum?" on the terminal <graft> seems odd <graft> i'm using konsole <graft> seems like some glyphs were added, some were lost <mbt> Does Konsole/KDE let you enter arbitrary unicode characters with the keyboard? <graft> probably, using SKIM or whatever, but i dunno how <bazhang> arbitrary as in other language? <mbt> Alrighty. Well, I think I am going to file a bug---it is frustrating to be seemingly limited once again to a subset of American English characters. <mbt> As in GNOME, where you can press Left Control+Left Shift+u, then type the unicode code point followed by a space. e.g., C-S-u, then 2122 <SPC>, gets â¢ <mbt> You can do that with any valid Unicode character, and if there is a glyph in the font for it, it should show up. <spr0k3t> mbt: learned something new... thanks <mbt> spr0k3t: NP. I have a page with more info on that, actually, and some common characters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fd0man/Information/GNOME-Unicode <spr0k3t> I have a friend of mine who was looking for this just the other day. They couldn't find the | on a finish keyboard using the en_us layout. <mbt> ASCII pipe, solid bar, or split bar? (there are three distinct code points that I know of for them) <spr0k3t> ASCII pipe <mbt> Should be Shift+\ <mbt> On an American layout. <spr0k3t> the \ didn't exist on the finish keyboard since the enter key is the full L the the backspace isn't split <spr0k3t> at least, using the en_us layout on the finish keyboard. seemed weird <mbt> Ahh. Not entirely sure then, lol. It is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar <mbt> Character 0x7c <scizzo-> hey all...I have added a forum thread about fixing the 100% fan problems on nvidia drivers that is in hardy at the moment <virtuelv> does language packs break for everyone in alpha 2? <telexicon> Is updating broken atm? I'm getting "E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on libstdc++6" <mbt> you have to install it first -- <mbt> sudo apt-get install libstdc++6 <mbt> then you should be able to update <mbt> don't know why that worked, but that is what got it going for me. <telexicon> so why is it forcing me to install it when im doing update + upgrade ... <mbt> i found that solution on the forums <telexicon> ok <mbt> i don't know---i don't understand (yet) the internals of APT <telexicon> i think its a mistake <mbt> well, yeah, it is a bug somewhere <pmratpoison> I read that kubuntu hardy won't be officially supported. Will it have kde 4? <mbt> kde 4 is a long, long away from being usable generally and stable <mbt> it will probably have it as an unsupported option <pmratpoison> if I have ati and I want to use compiz, will I have to do it over xgl, or with AIGLX? <mbt> if you use the very latest ati driver, it supports aiglx, but it is kinda buggy <pmratpoison> Do you know when the new and improved open driver will be released? what is the progress? <pmratpoison> (I'm referring to ATI of course) <mbt> not sure <mbt> i know that there is supposed to be one, and personally, i cannot wait for it, but it will probably be at least another year or two <SeveredCross> 7.11/7.12 are good,. <SeveredCross> But Compiz is fuxxed <SeveredCross> It checks for GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap and claims that the ATI driver doesn't have it. <SeveredCross> However, if I do exactly what it does to check for it, it exists. <mbt> oh? <SeveredCross> Yeah. <mbt> i was wondering about that <mbt> i had compiz working under gutsy, but it flat out told me "no" on hardy <SeveredCross> The glxinfo output on my ATI system (Catalyst 7.11) says that GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is present. <SeveredCross> Yeah, same for me. <SeveredCross> But, when compiz runs the check, it fails. <SeveredCross> And then it fails with indirect rendering too. <SeveredCross> I think it's a Compiz bug and not an ATI driver issue, because it worked on Gutsy. * SeveredCross smells a regression, <mbt> well, someone who knows a thing about graphics and gl will have to look into that one... i can't. i am working on another (very old) annoyance atm <SeveredCross> bojan@sirius:~$ glxinfo | grep -c GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap <SeveredCross> 2 <SeveredCross> Now, the problem is, Compiz looks for gt 2. <Pici> Theres a bug logged for that. <SeveredCross> Yeah, I found it. <Pici> I've been subscribed for a while, but havent seen any activity recently on it <SeveredCross> Has anyone figured out what the regression was from Gutsy to Hardy that broke that? <mbt> what is the bug # <Pici> I'm guessing new fglrx. <SeveredCross> No, because it worked in Gutsy. <Amaranth> What bug number? <Pici> But there were new fglrx drivers in hardy... <Pici> Bug 173663 <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173663 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "compiz will not launch with fglrx driver - falls back to metacity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173663 <SeveredCross> Pici: I did it in Gutsy with the same fglrx driver that's in Hardy--catalyst 7.11 <Amaranth> SeveredCross: Pastebin glxinfo and the output when you run compiz <SeveredCross> It jumped into Indirect Rendering mode because that grep count wasn't >2, it is exactly 2, but it worked. <Amaranth> Dude we don't check > 2 <Amaranth> oh, we do, someone changed that :P <Amaranth> But what that means is that while both the server and the client support it they're not talking to each other so it's not a supported extension <Amaranth> Which means: your driver is broken <SeveredCross> http://pastebin.com/m6bef129e <SeveredCross> Hmm. That's really odd, because it worked on Gutsy. <mbt> same here <Pici> Amaranth: Can you suggest and/or change that bug so that someone looks at it? <SeveredCross> And are you sure that they don't check >2? <SeveredCross> if [ $($GLXINFO 2>/dev/null | grep GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap -c) -gt 2 ] ; then <SeveredCross> Line 155 <SeveredCross> Er, 159. <SeveredCross> /usr/bin/compiz <Amaranth> yes, i see, someone changed it :) <Amaranth> but it is a correct check <Amaranth> # <Amaranth> GLX extensions: <Amaranth> # <Amaranth> GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context, <Amaranth> # <Amaranth> GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_OML_swap_method, <Amaranth> # <Pici> It wont work even if its changed. <Amaranth> GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group <Amaranth> err, that pasted wrong <SeveredCross> I know it won't work if it's changed, I'm just pointing out the fact. <Pici> Yes. <Pici> Yes it did. <Amaranth> do you see GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap in there? that's where it needed to be <Amaranth> Which means...your driver is broken <SeveredCross> Again, that doesn't answer the question of why it worked on Gutsy. <Amaranth> Because your driver worked with xserver 1.3 <Amaranth> hardy is xserver 1.4 <SeveredCross> <_> <SeveredCross> The indirect rendering stuff changed. <SeveredCross> That would explain it. I didn't check that. <Amaranth> The ddx (driver) API/ABI changed <Amaranth> Not a compiz bug, that's all I know or care about :) <SeveredCross> So just gotta wait for ATI to catch up on the xserver API/ABI. <Amaranth> SeveredCross: Try 7.12 <SeveredCross> Has resolution issues, no good. <SeveredCross> Drops me to 1280xsomething rather than my full 1440x900. <SeveredCross> I'll wait for 7.13 <Amaranth> That's ATI for you <Amaranth> Fix one thing, break another <SeveredCross> They're getting better though. ^_^ <Amaranth> nvidia is almost just as bad <mbt> so wait, the fix is new driver or roll back xserver, is that right? <Amaranth> You do not want to roll back the xserver <SeveredCross> Yeah. <Amaranth> catalyst 7.12 might help <mbt> well, of course not lol i don't mess with modular X at all <mbt> too many interoperability issues are possible <mbt> meh, i will just wait. dreamy windows are not that important to me personally, they are just cool <Amaranth> "In addition, AMD will be open-sourcing part of their new proprietary OpenGL driver and will be in a state so that it can be patched into the existing R300+ Mesa driver." <Amaranth> that's cool <Pici> Thats neat <mbt> it will be very nice when ati drivers perform as good as or better than nvidia ones... this is the only ati system i have, and it has been one frustrating thing after another with that proprietary blob <Amaranth> I'm hoping nouveau gets 3d support soon <Amaranth> that's probably ~6 months away though <h3sp4wn> If the specs are freely available - my money would be on XiG having the best drivers (they have for years now) <SeveredCross> XiG? <wfarr> Is anyone in here particularly knowledgeable or familiar with the alternate (text-based) installer? <mbt> any idea if there is a nouveau like project publicly available for ati cards? <SeveredCross> I thought Avivo was the ATI card equivalent? <SeveredCross> Or at least a project named Avivo <SeveredCross> Unrelated to the ATI video technology. <wfarr> mbt: 'radeon' is the only comparable driver in that case, I think <mbt> i might have to try that one out, then... the only two that i have tried thus far are ati and fglrx <wfarr> ati == radeon, as far as xorg is concerned <wfarr> it's only really decent on older cards <mbt> ahh alrighty <h3sp4wn> SeveredCross: http://www.xig.com/Pages/Edu/OpenSourceATI.pdf (dunno what makes this time any different to last time both parties had the specs) <MenZa> Hmm, when I try to update my Hardy box (it's Hardy currently), it tells me I need to do a full distribution update (with update-manager). It can't authenticate my packages and errors on it. <mbt> it should prompt you to continue, not error out <mbt> where is it erroring out? <MenZa> nevermind me; I'm an idiot. an aptitude update fixed it. <MenZa> It just says it can't authenticate packages and lists a ton of packages, from cups to compiz and so on <mbt> right, and the gui should let you continue <MenZa> It prompts me first, but then it gives me an error. <MenZa> It doesn't. <mbt> basically saying "okay, they are unauthenticated, so what" <mbt> lol <MenZa> Nope, just says it can't upgrade because it can't authenticate them <mbt> hrm. what was the error text? <MenZa> meh, updating my sources fixed it <MenZa> I don't recall <MenZa> :p <mbt> k <mbt> well if you come across it again, i would file that as a bug <MenZa> I will * MenZa is still happy with how stable Hardy is, compared to its development stage <MenZa> then again, all Ubuntu dev releases I've used since Dapper were quite good <mbt> The only release I had issues with during the Alpha was Gutsy <mbt> I put this on my laptop to test it, though, and I have actually not booted back into Gutsy yet. <mbt> lol <MenZa> I just use Hardy on my laptop because Gutsy is really annoying when it comes to ALSA <MenZa> badly-compiled module or something <MenZa> works fine on Hardy * MenZa shrugs. <mbt> Though it seems that there is some breakage in APT <MenZa> Looking at bug reports? * MenZa checks launchpad. <mbt> No, I think I am about to file one though as soon as I can figure out what is causing my own issue <MenZa> aha <Pici> Theres always apt dependency breakage in hardy <mbt> I pinned my coreutils to that which came with Hardy, and it keeps wanting to upgrade to the one in my PPA, even though it is pinned <MenZa> lol <MenZa> Pici: I can imagine. <mbt> And it then did in fact upgrade, but every time I run apt-get upgrade, it says "We need to upgrade again." <MenZa> I just find it weird why this insists on running a "Distribution" upgrade <MenZa> hmm <mbt> And so it unpacks it and sets it up <mbt> Well, that is because core packages changed <MenZa> I see <Pici> I always full-upgrade <MenZa> Pici: I just use update-manager <MenZa> easier <MenZa> hmm <MenZa> I'm scared to reboot now ._. <MenZa> :p <mbt> eh, you have the installer on CD, right? <Pici> I have an alias that does sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade * MenZa does it nonetheless. <MenZa> mbt: The installer on CD? <mbt> MenZa: Yeah. <mbt> MenZa: If you do, then don't be scurred, you can bring the Alpha back from the dead if it kills itself. :) <MenZa> hehehe <MenZa> I don't think I do <MenZa> I'll download it on my desktop if I need it <MenZa> Works fine after a reboot. <MenZa> :) * MenZa crosses fingers, hoping it will log in <MenZa> Ah, logs in fine <MenZa> Thank God <MenZa> oh yeah <MenZa> I need to re-compile my wifi driver <MenZa> typical * MenZa growls <MenZa> Pici: what is this alias, out of curiosity? <Pici> MenZa: hmm? I made it myself. <Pici> full-upgrade runs that ^ <MenZa> ahh <MenZa> yes, it was the title of the alias I wanted. .D <MenZa> :D* <h3sp4wn> I have had cron-apt - running safe-upgrade <h3sp4wn> for a few months (to prove to myself that aptitude never messes up whilst apt-get does all the time) <MenZa> hehehe <MenZa> mm, this emerald theme makes me happy <MenZa> whee <MenZa> I have working intertubes <MenZa> <3 madwifi <MenZa> </3 having to re-compile for each new kernel <h3sp4wn> using custom patches ? <MenZa> just a madwifi kernel module; I have to use an svn version for it to support my card <MenZa> revision 2756 to be exact <MenZa> with a patch applied <h3sp4wn> for the eepc ? <MenZa> nope <MenZa> Toshiba Satellite L40-10Q <MenZa> it's an atheros network <MenZa> + card <h3sp4wn> Is it the patch atheros sent that breaks all other targets except i386 <MenZa> yup <MenZa> :D <MenZa> thank God for i386. <3 <MenZa> 7w 55 <mbt> wow <mbt> how do you break everything but ia32 <Seveas> use ia32 specific code in code that should be arch-independent <Seveas> not too hard <mbt> well, we aren't using assembly language, and shouldn't c code be abstracted in some way to isolate from ia32isms? <mbt> is there nothing in the kernel-space that does that, like providing some sort of small runtime for drivers that abstract away the platform differences? <forsaken> is there a good place to follow changes that are happening in the alpha's? I'm running it and just curious whats being done on it :) <forsaken> my /var/www has permissions of: ?--------- ? ? ? ? ? www, and i can't delete it as root, anyone know whats up with that? #ubuntu+1 2008-01-05 <crimsun> forsaken: did you fsck the partition on which /var/www resides? <forsaken> no <forsaken> its my / <crimsun> boot from a live cd, then fsck it <mrtimdog> Hi, I'm trying to block ICMP requests with an iptables rule but can't get them to be picked up by the rule. Could the kernel be intercepting these before getting to the iptables rules? <MenZa> I can see a couple of problems with Compiz in Hardy---are they common? <Hewus> Hi, I can't get past "Error 15" in grub, both with alpha 2 and now the daily build. Installation works fine for me, but it's just grub that seems to be failing. I have played around with reinstalling grub, but it appears that something is missing in my hardy install. Anyone have any ideas? <jtt> Hewus, i have seen several bug reports on this sort of behavior <dan2> hey guys <dan2> my toolbars disappeared in hardy <dan2> in gnome <dan2> how do I get them back <poorenglish> use gutsy <dan2> can't <dan2> brand new t61p laptop <dan2> gutsy doesn't have drivers for it <crdlb> what video card? <dan2> nvidia Quattro 570M I believe <crdlb> does everything work if you turn off compiz? <dan2> it's also the brand new wireless drivers and gigabit ethernet drivers and such <dan2> it's a pain <dan2> crdlb: how di Turn off compiz <crdlb> system>preferences>appearance>visual effects>none <dan2> would be nice if I could get to that tool bar <crdlb> ohh <crdlb> by toolbar you mean panel? <dan2> yes <dan2> panel is gone <dan2> compiz is off <dan2> toolbars are there <Hewus> jtt: Could you please point me in the direction of these bug reports? I've had a bit of a look but can't find anything myself <jtt> Hewus, ok hold on <jtt> are you familiar with launchpad <jtt> Hewus, are you familiar with launchpad.net <Hewus> jtt: partially, I've looked all through here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy <Pici> !bugs <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu - Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots <jtt> Hewus, just go to launchpad.net enter 176984 in search dialog select search <jtt> that is just one of the ones similar to what you are seeing there are 2-3 more <jtt> 2-3 more similar but each one is grub related <jtt> having problems with grub booting etc. <jtt> do you know how to make a grub floppy <jtt> i keep one around for just that sort of problem that way if <jtt> the installation is ok i can boot into it using the floppy <Hewus> I have gutsy on another partition, I have been able to get back to it via super grub disk <jtt> btw 177951 is another with grub problems <Hewus> sorry, is this the bug you mean? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/176984. I can't find any mention of grub <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176984 in ubuntu "update manager crash and doesn't update" [Undecided,New] <jtt> yes sorry wrong bug number hold on <Pici> Hewus: fyi, bugs are not logged under the releases, they are logged under the packages. <jtt> Hewus, 177951 is definitely one <Hewus> Pici: thanks for the info :-) <Pici> bug 177951 <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177951 in update-manager "installation failure (grub)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177951 <jtt> Hewus, also 177388 <jtt> pici how do you know how i can search launchpad for the pattern dpkg --configure -a <Pici> jtt: I dont know, but perhaps the chaps in #launchpad do <jtt> good point i saw several of those bugs and i want to mark them duplicates <Hewus> jtt: these bugs suggest that something has noticeably gone wrong during the installation (such as the error at 94%). My installation runs just fine, ending with it asking me to restart. I even reinstalled grub before and copied the hardy entry into my menu.lst, and gutsy would boot just fine with it's entry but hardy would still error 15. <Hewus> it's as if something is missing <jtt> Hewus, interesting that is a little different <Hewus> 'find /boot/grub/stage1' gives '(hd0,0) (hd1,0)', where the first is gutsy and the second is my attempt at hardy <jtt> let me think a moment <Hewus> jtt: thank you for your help :-) <jtt> is the root= on the kernel line root=UUID... or is it root=/dev/h... <Hewus> jtt: I can always go back to gutsy so it's not urgent if we can't find a solution, but I'd really like to get this working! :D <Hewus> it's UUID= <jtt> ok boot into gutsy and mount the hardy slice and execute <jtt> blkid /dev/h... on the hardy slice <jtt> then look in the menu.lst you are booting with and see if the UUID's match <jtt> error 15 says it cant find the file not sure if it means the kernel boot file <jtt> or the root slice it uses after booting <Hewus> jtt: I'm on the livecd atm. I've just checked using vol_id and it is currently different from that in the menu.lst since I added it manually for alpha 2 and have since reinstalled with the daily but forgot to change. <Hewus> jtt: I will change it over now and restart to test it, I'll be back on either gutsy or hardy depending on the results :P <jtt> then that is probably the problem that bit me once also <jtt> and it does change each time you do a new install on a slice <jtt> good luck <Hewus> jtt: thank you <Hewus> jtt: back on gutsy :-( <jtt> didnt work huh? <Hewus> again, it gives error 15 on hardy but fine for gutsy <Hewus> jtt: it did not. Hold on I'll do an ls or something <Hewus> jtt: I have gutsy on sda1 and hardy on sdb1. I'm not 100% on how grub and the MBR works, but I want it to go on sda/sda1/hd(0,0), whatever it's called. When I first install hardy, /boot has everything gutsy has, except the entire /boot/grub folder, and the initrd.img file (the .bak is there). Booting this goes straight to error 15. I then go back to the livecd, 'sudo grub, root (hd0,0), setup (hd0), quit', and on restart the grub <Hewus> menu will appear with gutsy available. I also note at this point, the previously missing files appear in my hardy /boot. I have put the hardy option into my menu.lst too, but it just gives error 15 when I select that option. <Hewus> That's pretty much everything about my issue :P <Hewus> I was going to do ls on /boot to show the missing files, but I realised after I just reinstalled grub, it created all those files (note, in the /boot of the hardy install) <jtt> is hardy and gutsy on same disk physical disk <Hewus> jtt: no <jtt> ok two disks <Hewus> !pastebin <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic) <Hewus> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50818/ where sda1 is gutsy and sdb1 is hardy <jtt> are you sure you have something like (hd0,N) for one and (hd1,N) for the <jtt> other on the root line in menu.lst <jtt> ok let me look at pastebin <Hewus> my gutsy menu.lst with the entry for hardy manually added http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50819/ and the entry that is created on hardy partition once I manually create grub using the commands listed previously http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50820/ <jtt> good i was going to ask you for that <Hewus> :-) <Hewus> jtt: thank you for being so helpful with this, it is greatly appreciated <jtt> ok hold on i am looking at both files <jtt> Hewus, when you mount /dev/sdb1 as say /mnt and do an ls do you have a boot directory listed <jtt> i.e. do you see a directory /mnt/boot <Hewus> jtt: yes; http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50821/ <jtt> ok hold on <jtt> where is the /hardy coming from it should show /mnt/boot <Hewus> jtt: note that the initrd file and /boot/grub directory did not exist immediately after installation, only once I ran grub myself. I'm not really sure how grub works in this way, but imo there is no need for that menu.list, and possibly all that stuff it added <Hewus> yes sorry, I mounted to /mnt/hardy <Hewus> I have many things in /mnt as you may have guessed from my fdisk -l <jtt> ok hold on <jtt> menu.lst is definitely required always <jtt> you say the initrd... file did not exist after reboot? <Hewus> jtt: but on both partitions? surely it only needs to be on sda1 <Hewus> jtt: correct. After the installation of hardy, initrd.img-2.6.24-2-generic and the whole /boot/grub directory did not exist <jtt> where ever the last OS was installed, that is the menu.lst file that will be read by the MBR <jtt> so hardy on sdb1 was the last one installed ? <Hewus> jtt: yep that's what I mean, however when I remade grub in an attempt to solve this issue, it created a menu.lst on the hardy partition too, although it doesn't use it <Hewus> jtt: correct <Hewus> ah I see what you're saying <Hewus> so it should be using the one on hardy now? <jtt> how do you boot to gutsy with a floppy or by the grub menu <jtt> yes the one on hardy so check its UUID's etc. and see how those match up <Hewus> I do not have a floppy drive. I use the livecd and do 'sudo grub, root (hd0,0), setup (hd0), quit' then I restart and I get my menu.lst (from gutsy) which lets me boot <Hewus> the UUID is correct <jtt> if that is the case then you are using the menu.lst from sda1 <Hewus> yes <jtt> hold on <jtt> does the uuid on line 143 match the output of blkid for /dev/sdb1 <jtt> in the menu.lst file line 143 <Hewus> hmm it does not.. I just used blkid for the first time, it was displaying correctly using vol_id <Hewus> I shall change it in menu.lst and try again! <jtt> that is probably the problem the UUID in 143 must match the UUID of /dev/sdb1 <Hewus> yes, thank you <Hewus> restarting <Hewus> jtt: again, no success :-( <Hewus> how strange, I was so confident this time <jtt> me too <jtt> ok where did the initrd come from <Hewus> when I ran those grub commands <jtt> interesting i didnt think grub created the initrd file i was sure that came with the kernel <Hewus> I did a fresh install of hardy, and no initrd. This results in error 15, no menu displayed. <Hewus> I can reinstall hardy again to make sure <jtt> no hold on lets work with what you have <Hewus> ok <Hewus> blkid http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50822/ <jtt> pastebin me the grug menu.lst from sda1 <jtt> s/grug/grub <Hewus> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50823/ <jtt> Hewus, ok let me look back at how you loaded grub with the live cd <jtt> Hewus, do you know how to edit the grub menu entrys when it is displayed <Hewus> after error 15. I start the livecd, open a terminal, type 'sudo grub'. 'find /boot/grub/stage1' lists (hd0,0) and (hd1,0). I then do 'root (hd0,0)' and 'setup (hd0)' before I do 'quit'. Then I reboot and have my menu, with the broken hardy entry <Hewus> jtt: from the menu itself? no <Hewus> jtt: only from editing menu.lst <jtt> ok it is easy to edit the menu dynamically but changes only last for that boot they are not written to menu.lst <jtt> here is what i want you to do * Hewus listens <jtt> first of all are u able to boot into gutsy right now w/o using the live cd business <Hewus> yes, the menu entry for gutsy works fine <Hewus> when I select the hardy entry, it says "Error 15: File not found" and I think I press escape to go back to the menu, where I can load gutsy <jtt> ok good good <jtt> ok i want you to reboot but hold on <jtt> first write down the UUID of sdb1 and sda1 <jtt> then boot <jtt> when you get the grub menu <jtt> arrow down to hardy entry <jtt> when hardy entry is highlighted/selected then <jtt> press the e key <jtt> this places you in grub limited edit mode <jtt> look at the display is the root entry (hd1,0) <jtt> arrow down to kernel entry <jtt> does the uuid in the kernel line match the sdb1 UUID you wrote down <jtt> does the vmlinuz and initrd path names look like /boot/.... <jtt> i know you cant capture that info so just look it over and then come back <jtt> after you have rebooted into gutsy and we will figure out what to do <jtt> do next <jtt> ok if you got all that then reboot <jtt> the interesting thing is i dont see any discrepancy in any <jtt> of the pastebin files you sent me so we need to look at <jtt> what grub is actually seeing <jtt> when it tries to boot * Hewus is writing this all down with old-fashioned pen and paper <jtt> good <jtt> you know i wonder if it is possible that sdb1 is hd2 and not hd1 <jtt> are sda1 and sdb1 on the same data cable <Hewus> it's SATA so they have separate cables <jtt> each one has it own cable? <Hewus> yes <Hewus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA <Hewus> ok, all good to restart now? <jtt> ok <Hewus> brb! <Hewus> jtt:
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