#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-01 <snap-l> New case is in. It's sharp <snap-l> and by sharp, I mean it's going to cut me at some point during this build <mydogsnameisrudy> hmm sounds orgazmic <snap-l> haven't had a case like that in a while. <brousch> fun times with the subaru <rick_h> brousch: yea? <brousch> transmission issues <brousch> looks like a common problem on this era of subaru <brousch> it hit 123456 miles last night! <brousch> but it has trouble shifting into drive <rick_h> yuck <mydogsnameisrudy> change the filter and oil lately? <brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: it has regular maintenance from a mechanic <rick_h> brousch: what year is it? I took my last one to 180k <3 <brousch> i found a forum with many others having this exact same problem, but the only solutions are transmission flush and filter (gives you 6 months of usage) or transmission rebuild <brousch> 2000 forester <rick_h> ah, outback for life! <rick_h> brousch: yea, I've heard of some of that from the early 2k models <brousch> i liked the outback better, but this is the wife's car so she had final say <rick_h> when I got my 99 I test drove both and the forrester feels roomier, but the outback is more solid/quiet <brousch> we got it in 2003 with 19k miles, so it's had a good run <rick_h> yea, nice thing is that fix the tranny and it's still got another good life in it <brousch> tranny fix is $2000+, car is worth $3000 <brousch> $3000 if it's working ;) <brousch> also we've put a grand into it in the last 6 months with the first time this happened, broken shift cable, and burst radiator, so it's not feeling like something that will last will another 50k miles <rick_h> brousch: ugh, sucky <snap-l> brousch: Sorry to hear that. <Wolfger> brousch: Which gear is "drive"? 1st? 5th? <Wolfger> 1st gets me going, but 5th is what I spend most of my time in... <brousch> 1st <brousch> automatic <Wolfger> But I generally find that any one gear is skipable. <Wolfger> Well there's your problem! :-) <rick_h> hard to skip 5th <brousch> but trying to go using 1,2 or 3 has the same result <Wolfger> bah <Wolfger> rick_h: I can skip (forgo) 5th if need be, but MPG would suffer <rick_h> skip != forgo :P <brousch> real cars have 7 forward gears <Wolfger> but skip =~ forgo <brousch> you wimps and your 5 <Wolfger> real drivers shift their own gears, not leave it to the whims of a mechanical device <rick_h> yea, <3 my stick <brousch> yeah, i kind of miss that <rick_h> but it does suck that it's hard to get the nice upgrades since sticks are usually saved for the lower end builds <brousch> but then i spend 75% of my time on city streets with stop lights and signs every 1/2 mile <Wolfger> at any rate, sorry to hear about your costly repairs :-( <Wolfger> FWIW, my Jeep is approaching the quarter-million mark on the odometer, no major issues other than the radiator rusting out last year. <brousch> yeah, jeeps last forvever <brousch> fall apart bit by bit from the outisde in <Wolfger> Yeah, I'm getting some water inside when it rains... but I don't consider that a major issue for some reason :-p <Wolfger> inside -> the rugs get wet, not inside -> raining on my head <Wolfger> I'm sure the body will rust completely away before I have powertrain issues <rick_h> just keep telling myself "doing this nasty hack in your code is ok...it'll let you get to fix it...it'll be ok" <brousch> hehe http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/stewart-michigan.png <_stink_> hah <Wolfger> brousch, snap-l: we should incorporate that into the LoCo logo <Wolfger> rick_h: hack code is fine... for now... <Wolfger> What are the odds it will ever bite you in the butt? ;-) <rick_h> heh, I'm proud, I've not blown up and quit yet. :) <Wolfger> uh-oh <Wolfger> trouble in Canonical paradise? <rick_h> let's just say that it's a compliment to my will power I've not begun a man hunt for the people that did the JS work in LP :) <_stink_> hah <Wolfger> LOL <rick_h> I know that they say "you don't need ruby experts, you need programming experts!" but some damn good programmers can write some HORRIBLE javascript! <Wolfger> It's comforting, somewhat, to know that bad code infiltrates every company to some degree. At least... comforting for as long as I don't change jobs. <brousch> ohman, google groups pages are much easier to use than facebook <brousch> switching is really easy <Wolfger> woot <Wolfger> I have really come to loathe <Wolfger> Facebook <brousch> adding manager is simple too <snap-l> rick_h: I did some code wrangling yesterday that made me feel like I needed some lysol afterward <snap-l> rick_h: Also, Javascript is not regular programming <snap-l> Normal programming makes some assumptions which are patently false in Javascript. <Blazeix> like what? <snap-l> scope rules <snap-l> Conventions for hiding or containing scope <snap-l> prototyping vs. OO <snap-l> JAvascript reminds me of C++ in many regards, because your preconceptions can get you into some deep trouble <Blazeix> scope i'm not so sure about. python scope is funky as well <snap-l> Well, in a way, yes <snap-l> Python's scoping is more geared towards making sure you're explicit when using globals <Blazeix> and variables leaking out of if/while blocks <snap-l> Javascript encourages global usage <snap-l> s/encourages/sends out invitations, and has a party whenever there's/ <Blazeix> yeah, binding to the global object is stupid <Blazeix> as in a stupid language design deecision <snap-l> (I know it's not that bad, but it seems like every Javascript book I've read, without exception, starts off with "Here's how to avoid global scope") <Blazeix> i guess i'd argue that js differences aren't that large, when compared to differences between other languages <Blazeix> i'm bristling at "not regular programming" being used as an excuse to not learn a language <Blazeix> though I know that's not what you were going for :) <snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, no, that's not it at all <snap-l> More that "if you're not programming for Javascript, you'll be in for a world of hurt" <snap-l> If you treat C++ as C with nicer malloc, you're also in for a world of hurt <snap-l> Of course, that's almost true of any language, now that I think about it. ;) * snap-l gets ready to restate his null hypothesis <snap-l> Perhaps Javascript isn't approached as a new language, but more as "web glue", and that's where it gets folks into trouble <snap-l> they only learn enough for their project, not to really understand it * snap-l waits for _stink_ to yell at him for using the phrase "null hypothesis". ;) <rick_h> the thing with JS is that it's bolted on a lot of things <rick_h> like in Launchpad <rick_h> which then means as it grows, you have to unbolt it and start to make sense of it, get it under tests that didn't exist, break assumptions, functionality that was done server side since the server side code was generating hte JS code <rick_h> which is where I'm at, trying to wrangle years of bad practice into good practices, but as you start to do it, you break so much code that you have to go back, implement bad things before you can start to fix them <rick_h> maybe shell is the only thing that tend to get abused so much because you can just do quick things with it and it's not really part of hte main app <rick_h> so it ends up not tested, no one knows how it works, etc <brousch> shell scripting is a great analogue <brousch> it's the bash of the web <snap-l> brousch: rick_h ++ <rick_h> except in JS you can start to turn that bash code into a full application now <brousch> i'm sure you can make a real application in bash <rick_h> I'm sure it's possible <rick_h> but not common as making a reall app in JS is becoming common <brousch> that's just because Google hasn't shown you how yet <rick_h> lol <Blazeix> next google blogpost "we're sunsetting this whole 'web' thing" <rick_h> naw, "bash for App Engine support! with a new sdk we call BwT!" <rick_h> ksh users everywhere cry out "Why doesn't Google love us?!" <Wolfger> psh * Wolfger wonders why he has never actually installed perl shell... it only seems natural... <jrwren> anyone know how I can get bash to show me readline variables, like completions-ignore-case <snap-l> Wolfger: Because you're not that masochistic? <brousch> snap-l: come on, look who you're talking about <brousch> there must be some other reason <brousch> oh no! the choo-choo train! http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/se_mich/amtrak-train-crash-in-jackson-county <jrwren> O_O <snap-l> Ugh, not cool. <snap-l> I love that during the recording of The Gates of Delerium by Yes, a rack of automobile parts fell during the drum take <snap-l> and they left it in. <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gates_of_Delirium <Wolfger> snap-l: Me, not masochistic? I've been a contractor at Chrysler for nearly 11 years now. <Wolfger> brousch: the reason is laziness <snap-l> Wolfger: Heh <snap-l> Wolfger: Sadly I think there are contractors at Chrysler that have been there longer than most full-time folks. <snap-l> So dippy. <Wolfger> ... <Wolfger> I think snap-l just called me dippy. <snap-l> Um, no <snap-l> I mean Chrysler's whole hiring practices <Wolfger> :-) <Wolfger> They're actually hiring pretty decently lately <Wolfger> but I lack the requisite 4-year degree to continue doing what I've been doing the past 11 years if I attempt to hire in. <Blazeix> my boss (who codes) joined the company 4 years ago, and he doesn't have a degree. so it's still possible. <Blazeix> just maybe not at chrysler <Wolfger> Yeah, problem with big companies is that they tend to adopt arbitrary rules and adhere strictly to them. <Wolfger> There's a massive disconnect between the HR dept and the people who actually conduct interviews <jrwren> yet another reason to not work for a bug company <brousch> yeah, also, the bugs <brousch> man, they're killers * krondor won't even talk about the depressing government hiring process <snap-l> Blazeix: Chrysler is blazingly stupid about their degree requirements <snap-l> krondor: One of my friends keeps sending me job reqs for the state of michigan <snap-l> unless they could guarantee a frat-party every single day, I think I'd want to kill myself. <brousch> quick and dirty logo. thoughts? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/grmobiledev-logo-400px.png <snap-l> INteresting start <brousch> i think it's all there. maybe just mess with fonts and finger thicknesses <krondor> hmm, I'm not sure I like the gray for the fingers instead of black <brousch> everything black, or gray phone, black fingers? <krondor> everything black I'm thinking <krondor> or make the colors a more obvious difference. The gray is too similar to the black <brousch> they are pretty close <brousch> hm, a dark yellow hand works well too <Blazeix> what about android green? <Blazeix> would that be too light? <krondor> I'd make the four fingers shorter and fatter and more evenly spaced across the phone. I'd make the thumb maybe come up midway to the edge of Dev <krondor> Fills in the logo a bit more, and play with some fonts (Ubuntu font might look nice) <krondor> Also I'd androidify it a bit more :) Green Blazeix++ and get rid of that iphone circle for a home, back, switch icon <krondor> but that's because I'm biased <brousch> :P <brousch> the green is so glaring <brousch> oh crap, gotta run <tjagoda> Terrible suspense is terrible <tjagoda> I think tomorrow or Friday is when I'm supposed to hear back from Canonical #ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-02 <tjagoda> Holy crap <tjagoda> I'm watching the Star Trek TNG remastered sampler disc <tjagoda> So so so clear and crisp <tjagoda> Did not know that film from the 80's could be composited this clear <rick_h> snap-l: http://muffinresearch.co.uk/archives/2010/10/15/fake-smtp-server-with-python/ is the type of thing <rick_h> but that's not exactly it <rick_h> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/663879-smtp-server-simulation-using-python <rick_h> https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=fake+smtp+server+write+to+file+testing+#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=fake+smtp+server+write+to+file+testing+python&pbx=1&oq=fake+smtp+server+write+to+file+testing+python&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=29947l30639l0l30829l7l7l0l0l0l0l144l832l0.7l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=202a1680c10bcd1a&biw=1278&bih=691 <rick_h> ouch <rick_h> https://github.com/apresta/tagger <rick_h> http://code.google.com/p/autotags <Blazeix> ah nice, I don't think i've seen that before <rick_h> yea, just found that one <rick_h> stuff to play with <tjagoda> And then rick_h closes his browser in sadness, as the project is hosted on github instead of launchpad <rick_h> heh <tjagoda> and he is contractually obligated to not use it <rick_h> OMG! kernel update finally fixed my second display off my dock! <rick_h> YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY! <Blazeix> nice! <rick_h> now, keep it in portrait or do three full wide displays? <snap-l> rick_h: IT was the keys that did it. :) <Blazeix> i'm thinking you should put them in tiefighter mode <Blazeix> []==[] <rick_h> hah! <rick_h> I was thinking that my other display, on the desktop I run in synergy would work well in portrait since it's usually just irc/twitter <rick_h> stacked on top like that <tjagoda> Go big <tjagoda> buy more displays <tjagoda> EYEFINITY 6! <tjagoda> 4 Portraits 2 horizontals <rick_h> I have been tempted to try stacked two displays on top of each other <tjagoda> I thought about that once, but I dislike all the vertical motion <tjagoda> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/405782_3249689601391_1241499697_3474482_1125725368_n.jpg <tjagoda> Kids, if you dont make your bed, the zombies will literally kill you <rick_h> Blazeix: is there an awesome shortcut to make an app show on all tags? <rick_h> I know you can pick specific additional ones <rick_h> Blazeix: so ctrl-shift-meta # will overlap an app onto that tag as well <Blazeix> hm, not that I know of <Blazeix> though it looks pretty easy to make one in rc.lua, just copying off of ctrl-shift-meta # <rick_h> yea, looking at it now <rick_h> moved the shortcut to just ctrl-meta-# <rick_h> and yea, should be able to add a special script command there <mydogsnameisrudy> morning <snap-l> blargh <snap-l> which, loosley translated, means "morning" <mydogsnameisrudy> liking your case still? <snap-l> Yeah, I haven't had a chance to move the components yet. <mydogsnameisrudy> new build or using old system <snap-l> Probably won't get a chance until this weekend <snap-l> Old system, new case <mydogsnameisrudy> oke <rick_h> morning <snap-l> morning, rick_h <mydogsnameisrudy> blargh <mydogsnameisrudy> ;) <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: Ah, that's an improper usage <mydogsnameisrudy> doh my bad <snap-l> it's only for before 6:45am that you would use blargh <mydogsnameisrudy> ic good to know <snap-l> between 6:45am and 7:00am, it's "feh" <snap-l> Tricky language to get the hang of <snap-l> has about 100 ways to say "morning" <snap-l> but none for "good morning" <snap-l> And with that, I think I'm awake enough to get started with the day. <snap-l> brb <brousch> i jinxed my kid <brousch> he puked for the first time last night <rick_h> ruh roh <brousch> nasty stuff <brousch> i figured it was my cooking, but turns out something is going around daycare <rick_h> gotta love it <brousch> now i'm paranoid i will get it <rick_h> basically count on it <brousch> oh man, you need to get me a pycon shirt when you're there <brousch> http://gazit.me/2012/02/01/iterations.html <rick_h> brousch: sure thing <rick_h> brousch: just remind me and let me know what size. I think they sell extras (don't recall for sure) <rick_h> last year they had some extras at the sprints <brousch> ok <snap-l> 'allo again <rick_h> party <snap-l> Oh, that's a nice design <brousch> rick_h: better bring an extra suitcase to carry all the shirts back <rick_h> hah! UPS store baby! <snap-l> Yeah, $25 for an extra bag means you can justify a VERY large box. <brousch> or you could give away your clothes to homeless people and use that bag <Wolfger> morning <snap-l> Wolfger: yo <Wolfger> Anybody here do MichiPUG? I'm contemplating getting off my arse tonight. <Wolfger> I probably won't, but I'm thinking about it :-p <snap-l> I'd recommend it <snap-l> it's a good group <Wolfger> good to know <snap-l> I'm not going to be able to make it (agai) <snap-l> got an interview with Jono for Severed Fifth tonight <snap-l> (yay me) <Wolfger> yay <rick_h> Wolfger: go, python koans will be good for you <snap-l> Hoping to have it up tonight <rick_h> do it! <rick_h> snap-l: awesome! <snap-l> Yeah, Python Koans are pretty cool * snap-l should have lead with that. ;) <Wolfger> What's the parking like around SRT? Any idea? <rick_h> Heh, varies <snap-l> There's at least one structure <rick_h> yea, there's one structure a block over and down <snap-l> IT's a few blocks over. <rick_h> there's a parking lot one block past SRT <rick_h> across from the post office if the construction is over, jrwren ? <snap-l> Is that still there? <rick_h> he'd know the latest/greatest news <rick_h> snap-l: think so, it was just blocked by construction and you could only get in the back way the next street over I thought <rick_h> which made it further than the parking structure <rick_h> Wolfger: and there's on the street parking as you can get it. THink the metering stops at 6 or 6:30pm? <rick_h> again, jrwren should know, he was a bit street parker <snap-l> I'll be so happy when the superbowl is over so my inbox can return to somewhat normal <snap-l> every fucking restaurant I've subscribed to has some special going on <rick_h> I'll be happy when the elections are over and my social networks can return to normal <snap-l> rick_h: That too <rick_h> no one gets my email! <snap-l> I eagerly await the phone calls <snap-l> and by phone calls, I mean the idiot celebrity endorsements. <snap-l> robocalls <snap-l> rick_h: Heh, I'm a whore for coupons <rick_h> I get mugged at Kroger since I refuse to do their damn "membership card" <snap-l> I won't shop there because of that <krondor> meijer ftw <rick_h> "what?! you don't have a card, why...that load of bread could be on sale!" <brousch> yeah, go to meijers <rick_h> yea, but mejier == down the hwy and kroger is across the street <brousch> you buy bread buy the load?! <rick_h> so weekly big trips are meijer, but short need things are kroger across the street <snap-l> brousch: You have to at Kroger <rick_h> brousch: oh yea <snap-l> 1 load of bread = $10 <rick_h> sorry, typing bad so I can justify the keyboard when it comes :P <snap-l> 1 loaf of bread = $1.50 <rick_h> I'll have fewer typos when the UPS man gets off his !@#$@ <snap-l> rick_h: *coughbullshitcough* <brousch> why is he sitting on a perl? <rick_h> hey, don't crush my dreams! <snap-l> Though I can fully appreciate new keyboard <snap-l> you start doing all of the ergonomic typing things that you should be doing all along because it's a new keyboard <snap-l> and not the slouchy stuff that you do with a not-new keyboard <Wolfger> snap-l: so a load is just shy of 7 loafs? <snap-l> 1 load = 10 loafs <Wolfger> or is there a slight discount for bulk? <snap-l> with discount card <rick_h> it's like a bakers dozen <rick_h> you get one extra <rick_h> 1load = 11 loafs <snap-l> but if you buy one, you get it for regular price. * snap-l hates that shit too <snap-l> That's why I <3 meijer <snap-l> 3 for $10 doesn't mean that 1 == $4.50 <snap-l> it means 1 = $3.33 <Wolfger> snap-l: it means you pay an extra penny for the third one??? That's an outrage! <snap-l> Well, or however that works * snap-l should have used a number that divided nicely, but you get the point <Wolfger> Your point is you don't want to save money per unit for buying in bulk? <snap-l> Meijer may be Dutch, but they don't put the screws to their customers <snap-l> oh FFS <Wolfger> heh <snap-l> Wolfger: No, I mean Kroger does (or did shit) where you had to buy ridiculous quantities of things to get the discount <snap-l> so you'd have to buy 4 cans of tuna when you only wanted one in order to get the discount. <Wolfger> The infamous 10 for $10 <snap-l> That's actually not too bad <snap-l> We can usually pick up enough 10 for $10 <Wolfger> I love 10 for 10 on bricks of cheese <snap-l> Cheese decimation. ;) <Wolfger> ftw <brousch> via the Twitters DM: @alexDGS Know anyone who you could call a 'Linux Engineer' looking for a job in MI? <brousch> Diskless Workstations guy I think <_stink_> brousch: yep, you got it <rick_h> damn code reviews are tough <rick_h> I'd NEVER let code like that through, but it's how the rest of it is currently, and seems to work...and ugh <rick_h> but damn is that UGLY code <ColonelPanic001> I assume rick_h is referring to using 3 spaces instead of 4. <rick_h> heh, not quite <brousch> tabs <greg-g> say that: "This matches the style of the code around it, but, it seems to be a bit messy/ugly. Approved for the sake of fixing a bug, but lets work on improving this section iteratively soon." or somesuch <greg-g> rick_h: ^ <snap-l> rick_h: Heh <snap-l> greg-g: Yo should be a diplomat <greg-g> not a bad gig, really <greg-g> who wants to be president so I can be a diplomat? <rick_h> greg-g: yea, that's where I ended up. I had to chat with my mentor <snap-l> How about you be president, and I'll be the diplomat <rick_h> basically, because he's on the other side of the world, it's tough to block his work <rick_h> but I did up a demo of the 'pretty' way and tried to make "optional suggestions" <greg-g> rick_h: oh, and that added dimension sucks <greg-g> well done :) <rick_h> but yea, it's tough because your job as reviewer is to catch issues <rick_h> but on the other hand there's the teaching, the standards keeping, etc <greg-g> not to be a teacher, necessarily? * greg-g nods <rick_h> but what is "lesson" and what is "no, you cannot land this change like this" * greg-g nods <rick_h> anyway, fun morning, how we all doing :) <snap-l> Cleaning up code to make testing easier <snap-l> funnily enough, it'll make everything easier, so go figure. ;) <rick_h> yea, the trouble is that cleaning can turn into a never ending saga and there's that matter of opinion in there <snap-l> Yeah, trying not to go into the weeds <snap-l> But it's OH SO EASY! * Wolfger imagines President Harding and Diplomat Grossmeier... <Wolfger> some poor country is going to get bombed. <snap-l> Screw your domestic policy, show me the code <Blazeix> "djibouti? that sounds suspiciously like django. kill 'em" <Wolfger> Yeah, what am I thinking... Other countries are safe, congress would get reamed for writing convoluted laws, though. <snap-l> "WHAT?!?! PEP8 FAILS?!? 0% test coverage?!? Say hello to God for me, motherfuckers." <greg-g> Blazeix: lol <greg-g> actually, lolz all around ;) <rick_h> I'm so happy to have a group that "understands" me so <rick_h> and they say online communities aren't real :P <Wolfger> Ha! <greg-g> GROUP HUG! <greg-g> fine <rick_h> always the hippy wants to hug :P <greg-g> :) * rick_h is now curious if SF deals end in hugs instead of hand shakes <greg-g> only the best deals * snap-l did not see "hand shakes" <greg-g> lol <greg-g> you guys, I was supposed to be getting work done! <snap-l> Too late <rick_h> bah, I'm putting off more code reviews <rick_h> ugh <rick_h> I mean, wtf does this really do? https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/bug-829074/+merge/91302 <rick_h> and for the curious https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/confirm-reviewer-subscription-330290/+merge/90070 <greg-g> "You do not currently have access to the pastebin." in nice big bold letters <greg-g> (don't really care, just thought it was funny) <rick_h> oh, didn't realize it was private <snap-l> I could see both links <greg-g> just the paste.canonical thing <rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/vkISyRtfZ4JZGROrfj6k/ <rick_h> yea, I try not to put links to my own pastebin in LP things that could be around a while * greg-g nods <rick_h> I know I had to sign into it, but didn't realize the pastebin @canonical was private/locked out <rick_h> good to know <snap-l> ugh <snap-l> Line 145+ <snap-l> https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/confirm-reviewer-subscription-330290/+merge/90070 <rick_h> snap-l: that's actually ok <rick_h> this requires a lot of modules and each test file is completely indepenant and doesn't use combo loaded files/etc so that the tests are pure <snap-l> Ah, OK <snap-l> Bah, I'm an idjit <snap-l> Thought that was inline in a python file. Sorry <rick_h> lol, no all of this is JS <snap-l> Yeah, that'll teach me to skim <greg-g> just fyi, the other channel I'm in just had a group hug :P <greg-g> I may or may not have instigated it <rick_h> hah, greg-g is going elsewhere for his needs since we don't satisfy <greg-g> complimentary, not replacement <greg-g> </diplomat> <Wolfger> I hate Microsoft Outlook with the burning passion of a thousand suns. <Wolfger> or possibly just the way Chrysler has it set up, I dunno. <rick_h> that's ok, just hate on outlook <rick_h> works for us <Wolfger> corporate IT has a funny way of making bad things even worse <MonkeyJuiCe> groupwise rules <Wolfger> My coworkers have become accustomed to me spontaneously saying "I hate Microsoft" (sometimes/often with an expletive) multiple times per day <Wolfger> MonkeyJuiCe: I'm not familiar with Groupwise, but it sounds too much like ProjectWise for me to have a good opinion of it. <MonkeyJuiCe> it sucks lol so dont even look <Wolfger> although I'm nearly positive that ProjectWise isn't as bad as the way we use it makes it. <MonkeyJuiCe> state of michigan uses groupwise .. <MonkeyJuiCe> well did when i was there <rick_h> scary http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/02/visualizing-facebooks-media-store-how-big-is-100-petabytes/ <brousch> woohoo! i recovered access to the GRPUG google app engine account <brousch> been working on that for a month <krondor> MonkeyJuiCe: I wouldn't call GroupWise worse than Outlook. I think I hate all corp mail clients though. <krondor> note I've designed too many Exchange and GroupWise systems to have an untainted opinion. Squirrelmail/Horde/Roundcube for all I say. <brousch> gmail is the only true webmail <krondor> gmail is indeed the best <brousch> roundcube was awesome 5 years ago. it has not changed since then <brousch> i had such high hopes <krondor> yeah I see S/MIME and PGP is still on their planned features list 5 years running :| <brousch> where is the slick python webmail? <krondor> along with rules and filters (ugh) <brousch> roundcube got LDAP and then stopped doing anything <krondor> gmail is too good so I think everyone has given up, well except for fat clients. They still update. <brousch> wow, i totally read that as "fat chicks" <brousch> someone needs to CoC-slap me <rick_h> man, keyboards with number pads are so huge! <brousch> you need to grow another arm and hand to use it properly <Wolfger> snap-l: All the case you'll ever need -> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Build-a-Lego-Computer/ <snap-l> Oh, nice. :) <snap-l> Though I'd be pretty worried about static electricity <rick_h> damn...IE testing/working coming up in LP discussion <rick_h> I forsee a LOT of IE JS testing in my future :/ <brousch> might as well switch to windows <rick_h> brousch: don't make me get your voodoo doll out <brousch> i thought i saw you collecting my hairs in the middle of the night <rick_h> new book I've been reading :P <snap-l> Is that an O'Reilly book? <brousch> no, it's a for dummies <snap-l> "Vodoo: The Definitive Guide" <snap-l> Followed by "Head First Vodoo" <brousch> http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Voodoo/dp/0028642368/ <rick_h> oh hell, they're even debating IE6 support <brousch> why does a search for "voodoo for dummies" return "sex for dummies"? <snap-l> rick_h: OH HELL NO <snap-l> IE6 is dead <rick_h> debating, I don't know it's more than 20% atm <snap-l> Do NOT screw the corpse of IE back to life <brousch> also, you should support netscape <snap-l> no no no no no <rick_h> heh, for sure man! <snap-l> Maybe you could support HTML3 too <snap-l> table formatting FTW <brousch> if i can't use launchpad on my win95 virtual machine then FU in the neck. you are FAIL <snap-l> MOSAIC would like some Launchpad love too <rick_h> grrr, pyinotify daemonize isn't playing nice <rick_h> so so close <greg-g> I just deposited a check using my phone. I live in the future. <rick_h> greg-g: isn't it great! <greg-g> especially when you are the point person for a house of 5 rooms/checks per/mo, yep! <rick_h> nice <snap-l> Yeah, I had fun explaining how that all worked. <snap-l> Wondering at what point the check will just disappear altogeter <snap-l> It's not too far off, IMHO <snap-l> Though I wonder how quickly it'll be before there's automated ways to intercept check images <brousch> not long. thanks for the deposit greg-g! <brousch> i'll put it towards a new car <rick_h> hah <greg-g> heh, apropos form another channel: <greg-g> paroneayea: I mean, it really isn't much different than reality, if it is contested it is contested. <greg-g> paroneayea: though, now there was a scan of my signature (you still have to endorse the back) that went from my phone to their servers, sure hope it was encrypted <greg-g> and I hope that image isn't saved on my phone somewhere I don't know about but could be hacked by some other evil app I install <greg-g> I just used hacked how journalists do! <snap-l> Aw, I'm telling... <brousch> lol, some bad language http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGxKhUuZ0Rc&feature=youtu.be <snap-l> mitechie: ah buckling spring keyboard how I missed you...the firmness, the travel...the shape of those nice pyramid keycaps. Ahhhhh <snap-l> Get. A. Room. <rick_h> snap-l: lol, you saw the get a room response? <snap-l> No, that was my response. <rick_h> https://twitter.com/#!/bitprophet/status/165161529522651137 <snap-l> Didn't know I was in the majority opinion. ;) <snap-l> hah, that's awesome. <rick_h> let's just say it was shared <brousch> and make sure the room is soundproof <rick_h> actually the sound on this one is a bit lower/deeper which I find easier to ignore than the cherry blues I think. <rick_h> they're higher pitched a bit <brousch> i don't want to hear you banging away <snap-l> KL-PING <snap-l> KL-PING <snap-l> KL-PING <brousch> on your keyboard <rick_h> come on, let's do a hangout <rick_h> :) <snap-l> Bring it to CHC <tjagoda> OMG KEYBOARD SO AWESOME <tjagoda> This actually markedly improves my typing accuracy <tjagoda> Turns out it was shoddy keyboards all these years, and not growing senility <rick_h> tjagoda: you gets yours today as well? <tjagoda> Yep <rick_h> awesome, congrats <tjagoda> Two keys were dislodged during shipping <tjagoda> But they went back on easy enough <rick_h> yea, the keys on these things aren't bad to take off when you need to <rick_h> they're pretty heavy duty <tjagoda> I wish I could order ubuntu keys for it to replace the windows keys <tjagoda> =( <rick_h> yea, that's the only problem with these <rick_h> the cherry keyboards have a lot more custom keycaps options <rick_h> since a lot more makers of keyboards use the cherry mx switches <rick_h> but only pckeyboards there can make these <tjagoda> Its so weighty that it doesn't slide around my desk as I type <tjagoda> I enjoy this <mydogsnameisrudy> what do you use to edit code ? <tjagoda> I am also glad I live alone, considering how much noise this makes <tjagoda> Wonder if it will be good for gaming. Its awesome for general typing. <tjagoda> lol <tjagoda> ALT and Windows are in the wrong spot <tjagoda> Talk about several moments of confusion <rick_h> tjagoda: meh, they're right. Just going to have to adjust :) <rick_h> mydogsnameisrudy: vim is the one true answer <tjagoda> I just flipped the key around <rick_h> heh, that works as well <rick_h> most of my keyboards are ctrl-meta-alt though <tjagoda> This one was CTRL-ALT-META <tjagoda> I made it CTRL-META-ALT <rick_h> is it? I thuoght you got the same keyboard I did <tjagoda> I did <snap-l> tjagoda: Did you order the mac version? <tjagoda> nope <tjagoda> I think somebody just misassembled it <snap-l> Check the model # <tjagoda> The button puts out the right signal <snap-l> Ah, OK <tjagoda> The plastic bits were just swapped around <snap-l> tjagoda: They just thought you should have a Mac. <tjagoda> Over my dead body! #ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-03 <mydogsnameisrudy> is there a way to turn on number lines in vim <greg-g> Q: Is there a way to $Do_Something in vim? A: Yes. <mydogsnameisrudy> just a noob ? <Blazeix> mydogsnameisrudy: :set nu <mydogsnameisrudy> thx <Blazeix> :set nonu to turn it off <mydogsnameisrudy> ok so it has to be set every time <Blazeix> mydogsnameisrudy: put it a file called ~/.vimrc in your home directory <mydogsnameisrudy> ah got it thx again <tjagoda> I bet rick_h's .vimrc is like 300 lines long <rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/.vimrc 612 with comments <mydogsnameisrudy> mine had 1 line ;) <tjagoda> It has dependencies?! <rick_h> but of course! <mydogsnameisrudy> ah hmmm i much to learn... <Blazeix> tjagoda: you're stepping into a whole new world. hang on... <tjagoda> rick_h has not yet moved out of github and into launchpad! <rick_h> heh, I still <3 git <rick_h> I'm not sold on this bzr stuff <rick_h> ugh <rick_h> besides, I've got 41 watchers of my pyvim repo :) <tjagoda> lol <tjagoda> My launchpad participation is sporadic, as my extra free time comes and goes <jrwren> git > bzr <jrwren> want evidence? <jrwren> checking a 1GB file. <jrwren> then say ooops. <jrwren> and you want to delete it from history. <jrwren> git can <jrwren> bzr can't <rick_h> heh <rick_h> yea, I'm fighting with people sworn to bzr "it's so user friendly..." <rick_h> *sigh* <rick_h> hate to break it to you, the best tools are never the user friendly ones, that's why they're user friendly <jrwren> right. <jrwren> and sure... its user friendly, i fyou are used to cvs or svn. <jrwren> but its NOT user friendly when you have painted yourself into a corner and are stuck. <jrwren> git is more difficult at first becuase its putting you on the path to success. <rick_h> yep, and "it's almost as fast as git" if you do 4 different things that aren't defaults to make things quicker <rick_h> default bzr is still slow as @#$#@$ <jrwren> and if you do paint yourself into a corner with git, it is easy to get out. that is not really true of bzr <jrwren> yup. <jrwren> speed matters. <jrwren> i used bzr for a couple years. <jrwren> then hg for a couple years <jrwren> and now git :) <jrwren> so I htink I can speak to them all reasonable well. <rick_h> yea, same here, except I've got this 4th step of back to bzr <jrwren> i used to be one of those "its easier" guys <jrwren> and I'll be first to admit, I was wrong <rick_h> bzr->hg->git-> aw crap really? bzr <jrwren> yar, that sucks. <rick_h> heh yea, I remember when I was saying "man, git seems like a fanboi movement, like django or rails" <jrwren> yup. <snap-l> Heh, I remember that phase <snap-l> and now I'm a git fanboi <rick_h> snap-l: welcome to the club :) <tjagoda> So <rick_h> So party! <tjagoda> How long before Rick_H single handedly rips Bzr from launchpad and replaces it with git <rick_h> tjagoda: hehe, that's *never* going to happen. LP and bzr go together like Linux and gcc <tjagoda> Typing on the new keyboard is very satisfying <tjagoda> I enjoy its solid metal construction. <rick_h> tjagoda: there you go, now you have a solid weapon if someone comes after you :) <tjagoda> Keyboard AND home defense weapon. <Blazeix> reminds me of the cell phone with crime deterrent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgoVrAR3YOo <snap-l> Interview with Severed Fifth uploading <tjagoda> OMG <tjagoda> Crime deterrent <snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/02/02/open-metalcast-special-interview-episode-severed-fifth-liberate/ <rick_h> morning, yay friday <mydogsnameisrudy> morning .. <snap-l> Gooooood morning <mydogsnameisrudy> my old brain is in pain.. heh <rick_h> snap-l: interview stuff all go well? <Wolfger> Friday! \o/ <tjagoda> Ahoy <Wolfger> yarr <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it was a really good interview <snap-l> If anyone wants to give some reddit love to the interview... ;) <rick_h> linky? <snap-l> One sec <brousch> i think the sum total of everything i've done on reddit is up-vote 3 of snap-l's posts <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/Metal/comments/p983q/severed_fifth_liberate_releases_today_open/ <snap-l> Heh <tjagoda> EDI makes me hate life. <tjagoda> I love how the entire Auto Industry disregards AIAG standards despite the fact that they had major input in creating them in the first place. <tjagoda> FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU AIAG! <snap-l> tjagoda: You should know by now that any time the industry creates a standard, it's mostly to get folks off their back so they can get back to doing what they want to be doing <snap-l> "Here, here's a standards group. Now go play in a freeway while I get shit done" <brousch> i will change my name to this symbol, kind of like the artist formerly known as prince did http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm <mydogsnameisrudy> u"\U0001F4A9" <snap-l> brousch: I'm totally stealing that and putting it on plus. :) <tjagoda> I do not understand this joke, because I do not understand the artist formerly known as prince. =( <snap-l> tjagoda: So, when did you first realize you were dead to me? <snap-l> brousch: Please change your nick accordingly, and remember to update launchpad. <brousch> tjagoda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_(musician)#The_New_Power_Generation_and_name_change:_1991.E2.80.9394 <brousch> ð© <brousch> hm, doesn't work in pidgin yet <snap-l> Font doesn't support it <snap-l> I think there's only two known fonts that support it <brousch> in honor of this i declare it to be a "blasting poo armageddon" day <brousch> snap-l: thanks :P <brousch> oooh, a python conference in chicago http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/1/prweb8945991.htm <brousch> that's 2 hours closer to me than columbus <tjagoda> So <tjagoda> Whose mailing out brousch's floppy disks? <brousch> eh? <tjagoda> brousch: the floppy disks full of your font symbol! <brousch> ug, it will be nice getting the grpug site off of GAE <brousch> too many hacks to make it work right <tjagoda> Hope I get my follow up from Canonical today <tjagoda> Or I will spend the entire weekend in enraged wonderment <brousch> good luck! <tjagoda> I'll just have rick call up Matt and demand a timeline <tjagoda> I'm sure he's good with that <tjagoda> =P <jrwren> i hope i get a follow up for a new job too! <jrwren> I'd actually be working with linux and python \m/ <brousch> whaaaaat? <jrwren> i know, the world is gonna end. * brousch smells a troll <jrwren> well, I've been doing objective-c for my day job for a couple months now. No more MSFT <krondor> ooh byobu has tmux in 12.04? My new fun thing to play with today. <snap-l> Yeah, tmux is quickly replacing screen <brousch> jrwren: where is it? <jrwren> arbor networks <jrwren> i fear the tmux <rick_h> jrwren: awesome man, seemed cool when they hosted the python group <jrwren> i'm still ctrl-a for everything in byobu, i turn off the F1-F12 bindings. I hope it is easy to do the same in byobu 12.04 <jrwren> rick_h: they have a new locaiton, beautiful building down on state street. <rick_h> I switched to tmux but mapped ctrl-a as well <jrwren> rick_h: and DAMN do they interview... I got awesome deep questions. <rick_h> no byobu <rick_h> jrwren: very cool, we'll have to chat about it some time <jrwren> rick_h: well, I hope they make me a good offer :) <rick_h> I was blown away by a position with them once I was thinking of tring to get in for python stuff <rick_h> but seems there you do python, c, perl, anything <snap-l> jrwren: Oh damn! Congrats! <rick_h> jrwren: defintely <jrwren> yup, its definitely an EVERYTHING job <jrwren> but I look forward to getting lauren32@example.com... instead of being python nub <jrwren> rick_h: tcl too! <rick_h> jrwren: hah, awesome <snap-l> jrwren: Well, I guess I'd better ask you if we can use SRT for the Global Jam in March. :) <snap-l> jrwren: Oh God, not TCL <jrwren> snap-l: i'm sure that will still be fine. I'm not gonna burn any bridges here. <jrwren> <3 SRT <snap-l> jrwren: Whom do I need to put a bug in the ear? <jrwren> i can be your point of contact <snap-l> jrwren: Ok, awesome <jrwren> but tell me the date so I can save it on my calendar and be here. <snap-l> Haven't decided for sure, but thinking it'll be on the 3rd of March <snap-l> Afternoon, like last time <snap-l> hopefully not a home game, like last time. ;) <jrwren> that isn't football season. <jrwren> maybe march madness :) <krondor> ctrl bindings have some issues for me in things like miniterm.py / minicom. Fx bindings are welcome. <snap-l> jrwren: heh <jrwren> i ctrl-a, a like a pro <snap-l> krondor: You're still using minicom? <snap-l> God, haven't fired that up in years <snap-l> but yeah, serial ports, embedded hardware. <jrwren> to talk to network equipment via serial I assume? <snap-l> yeah <snap-l> Just thought he'd use Kermit like everyone else. ;) * snap-l hated Kermit <krondor> jrwren++ <snap-l> it besmirched the good name of Kermits everywhere <snap-l> jrwren: Please let me know if there's a conflict, otherwise will plan around SRT being available. <snap-l> Wow, Pycon has 1500 attendees <tjagoda> Remove attendees <rick_h> yea, going to be epic <tjagoda> replace with fanboys <tjagoda> =p <jrwren> that is huge. <rick_h> yea, first time they've sold out like this <rick_h> came close last year, but think it was something like 1300 people <Wolfger> yikes <Wolfger> that's a lot of Pythonistas <snap-l> Figures, the one year that I'd like to get work to pay for it, they sell out. :) <rick_h> many a line of code written in that 1.5wk <snap-l> Wonder if there's an official metric of how much code gets generated in that time <rick_h> it's funny to think about. I was going "yea, but only a few hundred will stay behind for sprints" <rick_h> but that's the size of pyohio + <snap-l> Yeah, exactly <snap-l> PyOhio sprints were about 10% of that <snap-l> if that <rick_h> ok, time to hit the coffee shop, need a chance of scenery <snap-l> chance of scenery? :) <snap-l> Lovely landscapes? <brousch> no chance of that today <tjagoda> Its chance because he rolls dice to pick which coffee shop he goes to <snap-l> Caribou <snap-l> Just down the street from him <snap-l> Wolfger: We have to get you on the Python bandwagon <snap-l> At least get you out to PyOhio <tjagoda> The closest coffee shop from my house is a Tim Hortons <tjagoda> 15 mintues <snap-l> tjagoda: Nothing wrong wtih that. <Blazeix> ugh, Tim Hortons are disgusting. at least the ones in farmington hills <Blazeix> they feel like a dingy mcdonalds <snap-l> Blazeix: The closer to the mothership (Canada) the better they are <snap-l> but yeah, the ones by us are pretty dreadfu <tjagoda> Americans do not understand Timmies. <rick_h> tjagoda: yea, caribou .5mi away <rick_h> I should walk up here and when it's warmer I bike up here <rick_h> Blazeix: exactly, I hear of these mythical great Tim Hortons, but it sure seems to me I'd be better off at a dunkin donuts in a gas station somewhere en route to Dallas TX * snap-l makes a note to take rick_h to a proper Timmies <brousch> our tim hortons is very nice, but the food is bland * rick_h gets his passport ready since that seems the only way to experience this magical experience <snap-l> heh <snap-l> Port Huron <snap-l> Just by the bridge <brousch> rick_h: we ate at a decent tim hortons in columbus at pyohio <rick_h> brousch: yea, I think the thing is that the fans have talked it up so much the donuts would have to be served by chocolate unicorns to keep up <snap-l> We'll take JoDee there, since she likes to look at greighters <snap-l> freighters, rather <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, we need to lower your expectations <jrwren> Blazeix: ++ Tim Hortons IS the mcdonalds of canada <snap-l> They're good, but not chocolate unicorns shitting glitter good <tjagoda> More Tim Hortons than starbucks in Canada <brousch> the onuts are good, but my tim hortons is 1/3 mile away from the best apple fritters in west michigan <tjagoda> But also a ludicrous number of McDonalds in Canada <snap-l> brousch: HAppy Yum Yum Fun Time Donuts and Chinese Food? <brousch> marge's donut den <snap-l> I'm surprised <rick_h> heh <brousch> http://www.margesdonutden.com/ <snap-l> That's funny, she doesn't look asian. :) <brousch> little hole in the wall that's been there since before i was born <snap-l> Ah, OK <brousch> coffee sucks though <snap-l> I'm sure it's been brewing since before you were born too <brousch> i wouldn't doubt it <snap-l> West MI has no idea how to make a decent cup of coffee <brousch> there was one place, but it went out of business <rick_h> what?! coffee not selling? <rick_h> must have been a business challenged person <brousch> i think so <rick_h> seems like every places is trying to sell coffee and doing it these days <brousch> it was open 24 hours, but was so dead between midnight and 7am that i would walk in on the owner sleeping on the couch <snap-l> rick_h: That's because it keeps people in the store longer <brousch> they needed a drive-thru <snap-l> Yeah, some Biggby locations have drive-thru <rick_h> drive-thru ftw, it's how I meet my caribou quota <snap-l> Handy, save for when you're working from home, and the place is closed when you try the drive-thru <brousch> my biggby has a drive-thru <brousch> mostly why i go there <snap-l> I like Biggby coffee too <snap-l> the one on John R is a bitch to get in and out of, though <snap-l> Had two of them by us in Macomb <snap-l> Something tells me I'm never getting the vacation pay from $LASTJOB. <snap-l> since it was supposed to be "end of month" <_stink_> >:| <snap-l> which was in January <snap-l> However, since I left, their stock is going up <rick_h> hmmm, that's not promising <snap-l> Just call me the lead weight. ;) <Wolfger> Damn. When I leave companies, they go out of business <snap-l> Wolfger: You're never leaving Chrysler, then. The government will see to that. ;) <tjagoda> lol <rick_h> my new hero: http://codeslinger.posterous.com/if-youre-using-nodejs-youre-doing-life-wrong <rick_h> says the guy that's written node code a few times <tjagoda> lol <Blazeix> how is yui on nodejs? does it fix a few of those issues? <rick_h> some I guess, since you're using YUI modules you get some namespacing <rick_h> doens't do anything for V8, callback fun, etc <Blazeix> if you're doing the mvc stuff, i'd think that would fix some of the callback chains <Blazeix> since you have a more eventy model <rick_h> yea, but that's just the logic part. You've still got to get the routing/request processing and response setup done <Blazeix> going to lunch, but this is an interesting discussion... <rick_h> node.js is really pretty bare bones, now you end up stacking a framework on top like anything else <rick_h> yea, have fun at lunch <rick_h> *sigh* bzr, I want to believe...but quit sucking!!!! <snap-l> heh * Wolfger gets rick_h one of those X-Files "I want to believe" posters <Wolfger> how many years (months?) til you convert LP to Git or quit in disgust? <rick_h> hah, there you go <rick_h> I've just got to make it until the end of the year and I'll get something different with a diferent stack of tools (though still not git in all likelyhood) <rick_h> dammit, why does a bzr push take *minute(s)* at 400kB/s? <Wolfger> because awesomeness takes its time? <Wolfger> It's cool, like The Fonz. Nobody ever rushes The Fonz. <brousch> Wolfger++ <rick_h> dammit bzr, why are you trying to f@#$#ing upload 202MB of data? and dying at that point, which means it wants to upload more <brousch> your code sure is bloated <brousch> you including the Eclipse executable in there? <rick_h> doh, you're not supposed to see that <rick_h> and all my java stack since it's a build requirement now <jrwren> wtf? * jrwren stops using canonical software <jrwren> tehy cannot be trusted <rick_h> :) <rick_h> heh, there we go. Had to make a new branch off of dev, merge the branch that was having push issues, and then push from the new branch <rick_h> finally <Wolfger> see? You were just using it wrong. :-) <rick_h> ummm yea, that's it <Wolfger> lol <brousch> you're pushing it wrong. try using the other hand <rick_h> ah, needed the *other* bzr push command <snap-l> Anyone got a link to the CoC? Keep this up, and I'll need to smack myself with it <rick_h> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6206556/running-scripts-within-pyramid-framework-ie-without-a-server * rick_h goes off to cry in a corner <tjagoda> No emails yet from canonical <tjagoda> As Darth Vader would say <tjagoda> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO <snap-l> rick_h: There there, it's not a completely stupid question <snap-l> and remember, there's no stupid questions, only stupid people. <rick_h> snap-l: I can't help but read that and hear in my head "So, I've built this thin on top of a web framework that accepts a 'request" parameter and I do stuff with it...now how to I NOT use that on a web server but from something like cron...you know...totally different?" <brousch> it has the kernel of a good question <brousch> how to use the same database and settings from my pyramid app in a cron job <rick_h> an no one in there goes "dude, wtf...break apart the code that does the cron part and import it into your web app and your cron script...done" <rick_h> they're all full of firing off little mini wsgi servers and firing off a request to it <snap-l> rick_h: eah, but the kernel of the question is "Look, I already set up all this stuff to interface with stuff. I don't want to decouple that and have to duplicate effort" <snap-l> rick_h: THAT part pisses me off <snap-l> if you have to fire up a web server to do automated processes, you're doing it wrong <rick_h> right! <rick_h> but no one says that in all those
{'channel': 'ubuntu-us-mi', 'month': 2}