#ubuntu-testing 2009-03-01 <Moult> where do i download the latest ubuntu (alpha) i want to see if my webcam is supported yet <charlie-tca> !daily <ubot4> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ <Moult> charlie-tca: cheers <zemedi> hi guys, im interested in getting involved with testing #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-02 <ara> morning all :) * ara changed the topic of #ubuntu-testing to: Testing of Ubuntu | Please join us in the Ubuntu Testing Day! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090302 | Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing | Reports: http://qa.ubuntu.com <ara> Welcome to a new Ubuntu Testing Day! <ara> morning davmor2 <davmor2> Morning ara <davmor2> ara: testcases should be mostly in now only music cd missing and screenshot gallery (which to be honest I still don't get entirely :) ) <ara> davmor2: cool, thanks <davmor2> ara: I've not included dvd playback deliberately. I don't want anyone in the states getting in to trouble for playing dvd's unencrypted cause a testcase told them to :) <ara> davmor2: yes, I think that's better :) <ara> davmor2: are you in jaunty? <ara> I got a bug in totem regarding galleries: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/336574 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 336574 in totem "Error creating screenshot galleries: totem-video-thumbnailer not such file or directory" [Undecided,New] <ara> maybe that's why you didn't understand it <davmor2> ara: I think you need to take some screenshots with it first and then you make the gallery out of those shots I think if I'm understanding it correctly <ara> davmor2: no, no, it is not like that <ara> davmor2: in my case the problem is that it is missing <davmor2> ah <davmor2> ara: for me it seems to work (i.e. not be missing) but does nothing let me open it in terminal and see if I get any feed back from that <davmor2> ara: Yes no feedback from totem that there is an issue however there is in terminal. How strange :-/ <ara> davmor2: seb128 is having a look to it <davmor2> ara: confirmed <davmor2> and added a comment about not showing up an issue in gui :) <davmor2> ara: do you have a last.fm account? <ara> davmor2: I do <davmor2> damn <ara> davmor2: why? <davmor2> ara: I don't want to open a new one and I wanted to know if you got a generic station if you had no tracks played <ara> davmor2: I guess you will need to open a new one :D <davmor2> Dave Murphy: ping <davmor2> schwuk: Who's responsible for the icon in the System Testing? Cause it looks god awful in netbook-remix <schwuk> davmor2: send me a screengrab? <davmor2> schwuk: will do I'm just about to fire it up for a few <davmor2> schwuk: http://www.davmor2.co.uk/Screenshot.png <schwuk> davmor2: urgh <davmor2> schwuk: It's pretty isn't it ;) <davmor2> schwuk: it might be that it is using the wrong res for the icon. If you look at some of the others on that screenshot they look blurry as hell <schwuk> davmor2: if you look on a normal Ubuntu machine, you can see the jaggies in the icon anyway. We need a nice SVG one. <davmor2> Dave Murphy: Well it I think you'll agree it looks more pronounced on u-n-r :) <davmor2> ara: by the way I can heartily recommend the group 'Blind Divine' on 'Magnatune' :) <ara> davmor2: thanks, i will listen :) <davmor2> schwuk: You'd like Blind Divine too :) <davmor2> ara: On rhythmbox last.fm can you try your own station and play from the second track and see if it stops playing after the last listed track, rather than obtaining the next 5 and continuing please? <ara> davmor2: I will test it <davmor2> ta <ara> davmor2: testing now. i will let you know in about 15 min ;) * ara -> lunch <ara> davmor2: it stopped <ara> davmor2: do you have the bug number? <ara> davmor2: so I can confirm it <davmor2> ara: no I was after confirmation that it wasn't last.fm playing up before I reported. Bugging it now :) <nags> ara, whom should I ping for http://pastebin.com/d1864c445 ? <nags> this is on Ubuntu 9.04 <ara> nags: hello, when did you get that error? <nags> ara, while installing / uninstalling any package <nags> ara, BTW, now at home, I have Ubuntu setup :D <nags> ara, as per your suggestion ;) <nags> ara, though on a VM <ara> nags: you could ping mvo <davmor2> meh lp is on go slow <nags> ara, ok <mvo> nags: please show it to doko in #ubuntu-devel <mvo> nags: sounds like fallout from the new python-central/python transition <nags> mvo, ok <davmor2> ara: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/336696 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 336696 in rhythmbox "Jaunty: Rhythmbox last.fm plugin stop on track 5 if you don't start on track 1" [Undecided,New] <ara> davmor2: confirmed :) <ara> davmor2: do you never use the "report a problem" when filing a bug? it adds valuable information (as packages installed, and dependencies), which can be useful for the developer <ara> ? <davmor2> ara: I only thought it worked if there was an actual crash. Well you see you learn something new every day :) <ara> davmor2: it always works. and it is very useful, because if you report a problem trough the menu, if it wasn't a crash, it does not add sensitive information, but it adds for you the package version, kernel version and things like that <ara> the totem bug I filed it with that menu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/336574 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 336574 in totem "Error creating screenshot galleries: totem-video-thumbnailer not such file or directory" [Undecided,Confirmed] <ara> and the part from "ProblemType" until the end of the description, is added automatically <davmor2> Cool :) <davmor2> ara: I'll try it out the next one I find :) <davmor2> ara: DLNA/UPnP doesn't get enabled. So I clicked on report a problem it open up bugs.launchpad.net but no info has been put into the further information, or do I need to just hit submit bug report? <ara> yes, once you hit submit bug report, then the info is added <davmor2> ta <davmor2> ara: Yeah thats quite funky :) <davmor2> bug 336716 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 336716 in rhythmbox "Rhythmbox Unable to ativate plugin DLNA/UPnP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336716 <ara> davmor2: glad to hear you find it useful :) <davmor2> ara: can you try something in totem for me please. Go to youtube plugin select canon. Double click on the top link named Guitar, let it run to the end and see if it crashes shortly after the tube finishes. <father_marc> Is it possible to transition from testing to stable once 9.04 stable is released? <ara> father_marc: yes, if you upgrade after the release, it will turn into stable :) <father_marc> ara: thanks <nags> emacs is unsuable in 9.04 <nags> is this a known issue ? <nags> GM cr3 :) <nags> I get *** glibc detected *** <cr3> nags: isn't it crazy early for you? <nags> and after that I have to kill the emacs session <nags> cr3, oh ya, woke up by 4:30 AM :) <nags> cr3, but its 7:08 AM now <cr3> nags: relatively speaking, must feel like mid-day for you :) <nags> cr3, :D <nags> cr3, do you use emacs ? <nags> cr3, I'm unable to use it in 9.04 <nags> when I try to save a file I get the above mentioned error <cr3> nags: nope, I've given emacs a chance on several occasions but I seem to be more of a modal type of person, so vim is my preferred editor <cr3> nags: there are several people using emacs in the ubuntu community, I'm sure this problem will not go unnoticed <cr3> nags: just in case, have you reported a bug yet? <nags> cr3, not yet <nags> cr3, will do it <davmor2> ara: did you get chance to check that totem bug? <ara> davmor2: hold on a sec. I forgot, sorry <ara> davmor2: yes, it breaks, eventually <davmor2> ara; https://launchpad.net/bugs/336741 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 336741 in totem "totem-gstreamer crashed with SIGSEGV in g_main_context_check()" [Undecided,New] <Aika> Hi <themonkeymixer> you guys done testing #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-03 <ara> morning all :) <eeejay> hey ara <ara> eeejay: hey hey <eeejay> ara, so i am writing tests for notify-ubuntu using the framework <ara> eeejay: cool <eeejay> ara: and I am having dificulty understanding the proper way to make a test fail (when assertion fails), and when to make the test report an error (when automation fails) <eeejay> ara: did that make sense? <ara> eeejay: yes, that makes sense :) <ara> eeejay: the problem is that, for ldtp, everything is an error <ara> eeejay: but there's a way <ara> eeejay: if you find a fail, you can log that as a failure like this: "log("blah blah blah, "failure") <eeejay> ara: + i think in both cases a screenshot is useful, because it may be an appearance bug, so i think the xslt might need some tweaking <ara> eeejay: and then, modify the report.xsl to add that as a different situation <ara> eeejay: feel free to add your modifications and propose a merge <eeejay> ara: hm, if for example the gedit test fails, it still shows up as "success" in the html <ara> eeejay: no, it doesn't <ara> it is log as "error" <eeejay> ara: ok, i will make another branch for those kinds of stuff <eeejay> ara: but it still has <success>1</success> <eeejay> ara: even if there is an error tag before <eeejay> actually, i will have to check again * ara takes a break <eeejay> ara: if you change one of the oracle files in the gedit test, and run the test, the html output will show "passed" <- I just rechecked <ara> eeejay: ok, thanks for the report, I will have a look into it <ara> eeejay: I have filed a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop-testing/+bug/337121 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 337121 in ubuntu-desktop-testing "Gedit tests show success, even if the oracle file is different" [High,New] <ara> eeejay: in case you want to subscribe <eeejay> ara: thanks <eeejay> ara: the only way i got a test to "fail" is by raising LdtpExecutionError <eeejay> ara: but i would expect that to be reserved for automation failures, not for tests that don't pass <eeejay> i'll write that in the bug.. <davmor2> ara: I want to write a case for smoketesting I'm just wondering where the best place to put it is? <ara> davmor2: mmm, let me see <davmor2> ara: only reason I'm asking is the rest of the smoketesting is being left on the old wiki <ara> davmor2: can you point me to an old testcases wiki example for smoke testing, please? <davmor2> ara: I don't think there is one which is why I thought it might be worth writing :) goes off to check <ara> davmor2: I said in the OLD wiki :) <davmor2> ara: I still don't think there is one. I knew what I had to do and the only page is a table of what, when and which bugs <ara> davmor2: then, on the new wiki, maybe under "TestPlans" ? <davmor2> ara: Okay cool :) <davmor2> ara: does that make sense http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/SmokeTesting ? <ara> davmor2: yes, it looks nice. Maybe you could add the table of results <ara> under SmokeTesting/Results or something like that <davmor2> Yeah good point <davmor2> ara: Done http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/SmokeTesting/Results and I linked it from the other page too :) <ara> davmor2: \o/ <davmor2> Yay ready for Monday :) <ara> davmor2: yes, remember to create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090309 <ara> davmor2: and announce it :) <ara> davmor2: rock on! <davmor2> No probs * davmor2 Lunch <cgregan> ara, cr3, bdmurray, ogasawara, sbeattie: I would like to introduce jcollado <cgregan> he is working on automation for my group <cgregan> he is focusing on Checkbox and LDTP. <ara> cgregan: he does not seem to be in the channel :) <cgregan> ara: hehe.....I guess I beat him here <cr3> ara: he's setting the stage for his grand appearance <cgregan> ï»¿ara, cr3, bdmurray, ogasawara, sbeattie: I would like to introduce jcollado <ara> jcollado: welcome! <jcollado> Hello <cgregan> He is an automation engineer for oem and will probably have some questions about LDTP and Checkbox so I figured I would introduce him to you all <cr3> jcollado: if you have any trouble with checkbox, please don't hesitate to blame me or laugh at me :) <cgregan> jcollado will be joining me in Oxford if you are going to be there <davmor2> jcollado: Don't forget to point when you laugh at cr3 so we know who you're laughing at :P <cr3> cgregan: sorry dude, when I heard you and him would be there, I wimped out <cgregan> cr3: hehe......we are very frightening here in oem <ogasawara> jcollado: welcome! <jcollado> Thank you. <cr3> cgregan: haven't you met the folks in montreal? I think we're close competition in terms of scariness <cgregan> cr3: I have met a few....and you are right! :-) <cgregan> cr3: I think scariness is proportional to the number of month of winter you are subjected to! <davmor2> cgregan: you're talking to one of the only guys further north than you right ;) <cgregan> yes...cr3 is way north of me <cr3> cgregan: so, relatively speaking, I'm "way" scarier than you too <cgregan> cr3: hehe.....frightening! ;-) <davmor2> cr3: I don't know it's late autumn/ early winter in England all year round :D <cr3> davmor2: good point, maybe temperature is a factor too <cr3> davmor2: who is their right mind would settle in a place that gets to -30C in winter! <davmor2> cr3: stgraber, you and eskimo's <cr3> stgraber: I hope the winter hasn't been too rough on you :) <cr3> davmor2: now that you mention it, we don't have enough eskimo's in the channel * davmor2 away <stgraber> cr3: nah, remember I come from Switzerland :) <gaelfx> when I run update manager, my system overheats before it can finish downloading the update lists, when I check system monitor, it say the CPU usage is 70%+, though nothing in the processes list seems to be taking up any CPU except for system monitor itself, is this a known issue? <gaelfx> when I run update manager, my system overheats before it can finish downloading the update lists, when I check system monitor, it say the CPU usage is 70%+, though nothing in the processes list seems to be taking up any CPU except for system monitor itself, is this a known issue? <charlie-tca> gaelfx: if the system is overheating, that sounds like it might be hardware related <davmor2> cgregan: I'm just trying out those two bugs that Chris left comments on <cgregan> davmor2: ok <cgregan> davmor2: was his comment for more data on the issue? <stgraber> davmor2: hey, did you do some tests on LTSP ? I did an install of alpha-5 and it seemed to work fine here. <davmor2> stgraber: no I was having races issue with the partitioner it was all I could do to get one install up and running I will be testing it tomorrow though if that helps :) <davmor2> cgregan: Yes basically <stgraber> davmor2: it always helps <gaelfx> charlie-tca: yeah, probably, and I know this sounds stupid, but any idea how I can figure out what's eating my processor? <charlie-tca> Not stupid, no question that you don't know the answer to is silly. I don't know how to figure it out, <charlie-tca> but I would suspect the updates that are being applied <charlie-tca> Maybe top would tell you <gaelfx> what is top? and yeah, I'm using apt-get for updates, seems to be faring better than update manager <charlie-tca> top is an application that shows what is running, cpu%, mem%, and a bunch of other things <gaelfx> does it show CPU temp? <charlie-tca> no <charlie-tca> Not sure what will, either <charlie-tca> I never got anything to show it for me <davmor2> lm_sensors should show temp <davmor2> meh he left the room :( <charlie-tca> maybe overheated again? <davmor2> If his cpu is over heating it's more likely that his chip fan is is blocked or on the blink than anything else <davmor2> charlie-tca: you're states bound right? <charlie-tca> I'm in Idaho, yes <davmor2> if he comes back on after I've gone ask him to check the temperature while running the live cd if it isn't colder then it's more likely his system. <charlie-tca> okay <davmor2> ta :) <charlie-tca> no, thank you #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-04 <davmor2> ara: can you set bug 337274 to be wishlist please? <ubot4> Launchpad bug 337274 in indicator-applet "Wishlist Bug: Minimise Evolution/Other mail clients into the new notify-osd comms applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337274 <ara> davmor2: done <davmor2> ara: Thanks :) <eeejay> crap, i lost a day of work because deleted sandbox before "bzr push" <davmor2> eeejay: Oooops * ara -> lunch <davmor2> Guys is anyone else having trouble with the rsync server ? <Daviey> davmor2: seemed to !wfm at 4am utc <davmor2> Daviey: It worked for me yesterday <mvo> hi, if someone has a somewhat current kubuntu (alpha5 or better) install, could you please test if gdebi-kde on a terminal starts? or gives a error? <eeejay> ara: the "is" operator only checks to see if two instances are identical (ubuntu-desktop-test:178) <eeejay> ara: it should just be i'f os.listdir(SCREENSHOTS_SHARE):' <eeejay> 'if os.listdir(SCREENSHOTS_SHARE):' * eeejay adds that to his branch * eeejay hops to another cafe <ara> eeejay: I already had fixed that early in the morning <ara> eeejay: with some more fixes for the bug in gedit test <ara> eeejay: i will comment the bug now <eeejay> ara: cool. thanks! <davmor2> schwuk: can you take a quick look at the dl-ubutnu-test-iso script in my bzr pulled version today it seem a bit borked * eeejay merges from udt trunk <davmor2> schwuk: it's okay I removed what looks to be merge and tree comments and it's working now. However we need to get a change put into the package in Ubuntu we need it changing from chromium.ubuntu.com/... to cdimage.ubuntu.com/... apparently chromium was full <davmor2> cr3: meeting <cr3> davmor2: thanks dude :) <davmor2> :) <davmor2> sbeattie: there is an update to dl-ubuntu-test-iso that needs to get into the main package on ubuntu it changes the server from chromium to cdimage I don't know if you deal with this but I thought I'd let you know :) <sbeattie> davmor2: hrm, ara did the packaging, but I can probably roll a debdiff for jaunty. Can you file a bug against it? <sbeattie> (and subscribe me) <sbeattie> davmor2: I also haven't forgotten about your request to add mobile images to the script; it's just non-trivial to do, given the way the script is "structured" <davmor2> sbeattie: sorry I was at tea I'll do a bug in a minute <davmor2> sbeattie: bug 337876 I've taken the liberty of subbing you to it :) <ubot4> Launchpad bug 337876 in ubuntu-qa-tools "Jaunty: dl-ubutnu-test-iso download tool is only hitting one server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337876 <sbeattie> davmor2: danke <davmor2> how do I add a post to the qa blog? <davmor2> anyone got a fresh install of jaunty knocking about? <charlie-tca> sure <charlie-tca> Xubuntu, though <davmor2> charlie-tca: does xubuntu jaunty use totem-gstreamer <charlie-tca> yes <davmor2> cool can you try the youtube plugin wait for it to download the codecs it needs and then try install x/ubuntu-restricted-extras from add/remove and see if it installs please, Don't use synaptic <charlie-tca> just go to youtube and let it add it? <davmor2> no charlie-tca in totem if you click on properties and select youtube and type in Linux in the search box and double click on any of the links it should auto recommend some codecs install those and then try restricted-extras <charlie-tca> okay <davmor2> playlist not proporties sorry <charlie-tca> You can tell how often I do this, huh? <davmor2> :) <charlie-tca> plugins are installing in totem <charlie-tca> Well, that failed <charlie-tca> eeejay: Invalid operation xubuntu-restricted-extras <charlie-tca> not eeejay , but E: <charlie-tca> in the terminal <charlie-tca> Looks like a valid bug? <eeejay> charlie-tca: I am not in liberty to say :) <eeejay> at liberty <eeejay> my grammar could be better <charlie-tca> yeah, I didn't mean to ask you. This stupid XChat auto completed my E: to your name <charlie-tca> davmor2: Installation in the terminal fails <charlie-tca> apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-extras works in a different installation of Jaunty <davmor2> charlie-tca: yes I think it's the same issue as I'm having x-r-e conflicts with what is installed by totem libavcodec52 and libavutils49 <charlie-tca> That's my guess, too <charlie-tca> I wanted to make sure I used the right apt-get, so I checked in the second install <davmor2> if you try to install x-r-e in synaptic it removes the others and replaces it with the unstripped versions <charlie-tca> why? I can do that if you need me to, but you probably got that already <davmor2> charlie-tca: no I'm just saying it works in one and not the others it's stupid <charlie-tca> Yes, I agree with that. <charlie-tca> apt-get should work if synaptic does. <davmor2> is it just me or is launchpad playing up when you try and report a bug I keep getting timeout <charlie-tca> A lot slow <XaMou> Hi. I have Ã little problem with the alpha 5 of Jaunty. It's impossible to change the network configuration with the graphical interface. (Sorry for my english ^^) <davmor2> XaMou: how do you mean. I can change from wifi spot to wifi spot or do you mean you have a cable in and you want it to use wifi? <mrooney> charlie-tca: wow, how does it work in synaptic? <charlie-tca> what? <charlie-tca> Installing xubuntu-restricted-extras after youtube? <mrooney> charlie-tca: yeah <mrooney> I mean, what does synaptic do that apt-get isn't or vice versa <charlie-tca> Oh, I don't know. I am just a tester/user/triager <mrooney> ah ok <mrooney> maybe synaptic uses aptitude <charlie-tca> with a little bit of knowledge. Synaptic, apt-get, and aptitude as I understand them, all use their own databases <charlie-tca> So, one of them might work, and the other one won't because of that <charlie-tca> That ain't the right technical argument, it is my own wording <mrooney> yeah, I know they do things differently sometimes, so that could be why <mrooney> either way probably it is a bug <charlie-tca> Yeah, that explanation fits in my head. <charlie-tca> I think it is a bug <charlie-tca> since apt-get install just fails with an error <charlie-tca> Synaptic, according to davmor2, will remove the installed apps and then install them again #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-05 <ara> good morning! <ara> davmor2: are you going to announce the next testing day? <davmor2> Yes today how do I post to the qa blog though <ara> davmor2: http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/add/story <davmor2> ara: is this alright before I hit post http://paste.ubuntu.com/126618/ <ara> davmor2: have you created the testing day wiki page? <davmor2> yes I'll link to it too forgot about that :) <davmor2> added anything else? <davmor2> ara: ^ <ara> apart of that, I tthink it's ok <ara> davmor2: ^ <davmor2> Yay I just dugg it :) That's a first :) <davmor2> Guys I'm after a url for a safe source to add to sources.list do you know any? <davmor2> I don't want to use medibuntu cause it has software that could cause issues for people in the states and we don't want our testcases causing people issues <mrooney> davmor2: you just want a harmless PPA orsomething? <davmor2> yes something like that <mrooney> could you just create your own and not have any packages in it? or does it need something in it <davmor2> It needs something in it really I'll see if there is a ppa for the testing tool <davmor2> cr3: ping <cr3> davmor2: pong <davmor2> cr3: is there a repo style address for the testing ppa? <cr3> davmor2: testing ppa? there's a checkbox-dev ppa but not a more general testing ppa which might also include ara's desktop testing code for example <davmor2> cr3: I'm writing up the testcase for adding a repo so I need a safe repo to add (safe = no software that usa may as illegal) <cr3> davmor2: checkbox-dev should be appropriate, especially in a testcase context :) <cr3> davmor2: so see here for the sources.list lines: https://edge.launchpad.net/~checkbox-dev/+archive/ppa <davmor2> cr3: ta :) <test> cr3, ping <test> cr3, Nagappan here <test> cr3, in Ubuntu 9.04 for testing we removed eth0, now we are unable to add it back <test> cr3, and get an error "Adding connection failed: PolicyKit authorization could not be created" <test> cr3, any help ? <cr3> test: nice! you might have to drop to the shell to add it back <test> cr3, let me try <cr3> test: could you let me know if the ifconfig -a command still shows eth0? <test> cr3, yes <test> cr3, I down it <cr3> I wonder if you up it and then start the Network Configuration tool again whether it might magically appear again <cr3> test: by the way, pretty cool nick! :) <test> cr3, :D <test> cr3, from my friends desktop ;) <cr3> because your laptop doesn't have any eth0 interface? :) <test> cr3, no, this is his test machine and he has the issue <test> cr3, the reason is, when testing latest VMware workstation, always one ethernet interface is having control <test> cr3, either vmet8 when its alive <test> cr3, and when its down, the control comes back to eth0 <test> cr3, so, just as a try, my friend deleted eth0 <test> cr3, now he is unable to get back the thing <test> cr3, displayed in nm <test> cr3, no luck, when I bring back the device, it doesn't list in NM <cr3> test: maybe try moving .gconf* to some temporary directory and starting NM again <test> cr3, sure, will try <cr3> test: you might have to ctrl-alt-backspace, not sure <test> cr3, yes guessed it :) <cr3> test: sorry dude, I need to jet. good luck! #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-06 <ara> good morning all :-) <doomik> Hello <ara> hey doomik <doomik> the testing distro will be available at 9 March ? <ara> doomik: what do you mean by testing distro? <davmor2> doomik: We will be smoke testing the various desktops on the 9th of march <sbeattie> davmor2: are you not smoketesting on a daily basis anymore? <stgraber> sbeattie: ping, small question about the SRU process :) around ? <sbeattie> stgraber: ask away. <stgraber> sbeattie: I'm looking at bug 290399 and it seems that they're waiting for an approval before getting the package uploaded to -proposed <ubot4> Launchpad bug 290399 in redhat-cluster "After ran the command fence_tool dump, the fenced process will take 100% CPU usage" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290399 <stgraber> though looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates the process seems to be to uploaded to -proposed then get the archive admins validate it <stgraber> and then do the usual QA to get it uploaded to -updates after validation <sbeattie> stgraber: hrm, according to zul's comment, he uploaded it. Is that not the case? <stgraber> nope <stgraber> not in the queue and not in -proposed <sbeattie> hrm, well, the SRU team can't accept it until there's an upload. Wonder what happened there. * sbeattie goes to read the scrollback in #ubuntu-server as well. <apw> cr3 who normally does checkbox releases? <cr3> apw: I've mostly done them but schwuk could handle them as well, what's up? <apw> was trying to get a feel for how often they get pushed, if there is a schedule etc <apw> as i am carrying stuff in there now :) want to get a feel for when it goes out <apw> also ... is checkbox in the desktop seed now, will it be on by defualt? <cr3> apw: no schedule, we just try to pack as much in there as possible before the release :) <cr3> apw: should be on by default on desktop indeed <apw> will there be another releaase before beta ships? <cr3> apw: yes <apw> cool, check with me that i've shoved all the suspend_test stuff in would you ... if we do a public call for testing it would make sense to use the version installed on the machine if its there <cr3> apw: will do <apw> cr3, on another note, did you have any thoughts on the test with output issue? <sbeattie> cr3: given the changes since 0.5, should probably do an upload before a6. <apw> alpha6 is next thursday right? <cr3> sbeattie: that would be the responsible thing to do :) <cr3> apw: yeah, I'd really like to be able to see test output in the interface. I'll try to get it done before beta <apw> so cool. i'll make sure my stuff is pushed up by the end of monday. its probabally done already <sbeattie> cr3: ah, I stand corrected, I'll not expect an upload until the beta then. :-) * sbeattie ducks <cr3> sbeattie: you know me too well :) <apw> cr3 cool. its a bit of a blocker for shipping any of the suspend tests run from checkbox imo <apw> not that it is stopping any testing as we have the direct interface right now <apw> so a blocker, but not an issue if that makes any sense <cr3> apw: noted, I'll give it top after hours priority :) <apw> heheh ... also have you thought about continuing after a crash? <sbeattie> cr3: BTW, re bug 324215, it's only an issue due to the package transition correct? My attempts to trigger the purge failure on hardy and intrepid were unsuccessful. <ubot4> Launchpad bug 324215 in checkbox "hwtest-gtk fails to uninstall if hwtest is no longer installed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/324215 <sbeattie> ... because hwtest-gtk and hwtest-cli would get uninstalled before hwtest, at least via apt. <cr3> sbeattie: right, and I was making crappy assumptions in my debian *rm scripts <cr3> apw: I've thought about it, but I'm still not sure about the user experience in those circumstances <sbeattie> cr3: if not, we could push an SRU; I went ahead and cherry-picked the relevant bits here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbeattie/checkbox/lp324215/revision/295 <apw> cr3, pretty much any test which does suspend or hibernate and doesn't come back could do with some way for the user to say "continue" <cr3> apw: should checkbox just start from where it left off? should the user be prompted for all the tests again, but having them prefilled with previous values? <apw> and get the same box up with 'FAILED' delected <apw> i would continue from the same place if possible <apw> in autotest we do that by freezeing the state machine and reloading it between tests <cr3> apw: anything is possible, I'm just wondering what would be correct. are there other applications like this which behave in a similar fashion? <cr3> apw: for example, firefox prompts the user to recover tabs or somesuch, so should checkbox also provide the same dialog <apw> yeah 'continnue you existing test run?' <apw> would be reasonable, i would then like it to jump to the right test again <cr3> sbeattie: if you could sru that cherry pick, that'd be really awesome! <cr3> sbeattie: by the way, as long as you're sru'ing checkbox, I think there's another bug I'd like to verify... one moment <cr3> apw: right, it's details like that which are mostly stopping me <cr3> apw: I could also have a check box saying "don't remind me again" or somesuch, still like in firefox <cr3> apw: when I implement new features, I try not to invent too much and rely on precedent from other applications which might be already familiar to users <apw> sensible enough <cr3> apw: just to be sure, your priority would be viewing output before recovery, right? <apw> i would thing a dialog that says " you were mid-test" with "continue test", "scrap test", "ignore test" sort fo thing <cr3> sbeattie: I'd also like to sru bug #323284, especially since dapper is nearing eol <ubot4> Launchpad bug 323284 in hwtest "hwtest installation fails with dapper version of debconf" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/323284 <apw> yeah output is mroe important as apport will report failurs for us right now <cr3> sbeattie: I haven't had time to reproduce the problem though, so I don't have a fix <sbeattie> cr3: okay, I'll peek. <davmor2> sbeattie: sorry I was off this afternoon so no testing today. Monday was testing day. Iwas busy most days so I have tested just not logged. I'll do that for you after :) Kubuntu and server yesterday ubuntu for bluetooth and installer plus wubi the others <sbeattie> davmor2: okay, I was more curious than anything. <davmor2> sbeattie: that should look better :) #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-07 <linux_ubuntu> hi everyone, i'm new here <linux_ubuntu> anyone testing kubuntu? * enhydra is going to do so 2 days after today <linux_ubuntu> that's great! actually, i'm testing their new irc chat quassel <linux_ubuntu> the only problem, the tesing cases page only for gnome not kde. #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-08 <drewmeigs> hi, everyone. pleasure to meet you all. <drewmeigs> i have read the wiki page, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to really get into testing? I would like to get as involved as I possibly can at my limited skill level. <ddnduk> hi! does anybody know where grab ubuntu nine test iso ? #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-09 <ny152> bonsoir je cherche la commande pour passer de kubuntu 8.10 Ã kubuntu 9.04 (comme sous ubuntu avec update-manager -c -d) Merci <aim1159> hi all <kazon> hi aim <n0s0r0g> I'am testing ubuntu 9.04 alpha on acer travelmate 2482, asus eeepc 900 and desktop pc with cel 2.4. I can perform special tests. <davmor2> Morning All <cgregan> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/OxfordSprint2009 <ara> davmor2: how is the testing day going? <davmor2> I think I got the images from yesterday so I'm just re-syncing other than that I'm hoping it'll be fine. Any chance you could update the header on the channel ara please <ara> sure! * ara changed the topic of #ubuntu-testing to: Testing of Ubuntu | Please join us in the Ubuntu Testing Day! Alpha 6 is coming! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20090309 | Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing | Reports: http://qa.ubuntu.com <davmor2> ta :) <davmor2> Bah Humbug iso's are slightly oversized <borik> Ñ Ð°Ð¹ <borik> ÐµÑÑÑ ÑÑÑ ÐºÑÐ¾? <borik> h <davmor2> borik: Sorry english speaking channel <borik> ok <borik> hi <davmor2> hi <borik> this is bug report? <borik> I am not good learn english <borik> I am testing Jaunty <davmor2> yeap <davmor2> what broke? <borik> you need my help? <borik> jaunty very good, Fast Boot <borik> 14 sec <davmor2> borik: Right so do you have it set up in your native language? <borik> My language Russian <davmor2> borik: If so just go through the applications and ensure there are no major errors in the translations :) <n0s0r0g> Hi all. Testing alpha5 on asus eeepc. Cheese (webcam) broke once on exit, "Invest applet" doesn't work. I can't update to latest versions of all packages (my internet connection is quite slow). <borik> ok <davmor2> borik: thats a great help thanks. <n0s0r0g> Acer TravelMate 2482: 0402:5602 ALi webcam is working in cheese, good. <davmor2> n0s0r0g: on alpha 5. Cool. <davmor2> n0s0r0g: which version are you running ubuntu or mobile or netbook-remix? <borik> Update manager not instalation <n0s0r0g> desktop-i386 <aim1159> borik: all russian testing is done on #ubuntu-ru. <n0s0r0g> alpha5 <aim1159> ppl, in case somebody like borik would talk here - please make them go to #ubuntu-ru - we provide help on filling bugs there for non-native english speakers <borik> thanks <davmor2> aim1159: It's nice to know thanks <borik> )) <borik> Ha <borik> you dont know russian translit <borik> vi pidarasi <borik> gandoni <borik> yebki edanie <borik> LOL <davmor2> ara: is the login music crackly for you on Jaunty? <aim1159> borik: stop it immideately <aim1159> borik: or you'll be banned on freenode <borik> sorry * davmor2 starts looking up all the words <aim1159> stgraber: here? <borik> Ð½ÐµÐ½Ð°Ð´Ð¾ <borik> Ñ Ð´ÑÐ¼Ð°Ð» Ð½Ð¸ÐºÑÐ¾ Ð½ÐµÐ¿Ð¾Ð¹Ð¼ÐµÑ <borik> Ð´ÑÐ¼Ð°Ð» ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¸Ñ Ð½ÐµÑ <aim1159> borik: go out immideately <persia_> aim1159, Thank you. <aim1159> i'm very sorry for this incident :( <davmor2> aim1159: We are mostly still none the wiser :) I'm assuming it's not good though :) <n0s0r0g> Two progress bars while booting on eeepc900: http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5982/eeepcboot.jpg. I see this twice (not always). <davmor2> n0s0r0g: I think that is an old bug check it out on launchpad. Also did you report the other bugs there too? <n0s0r0g> Yes, i put this image on launchpad. I don't report other bugs, because where are some updates, what i don't install. <davmor2> Anyone else having issues with sound at login being crackly as hell <n0s0r0g> Intel GMA 950 glxgears: hardy ~630 fps, jauntry alpha 5 ~820 fps. Cool. <roozy> hi , when released alpha 6 ? <davmor2> roozy: It's scheduled for Thursday but it will be out when it is realtively stable <persia_> n0s0r0g, Do be warned that there are so many factors that go into glxgears framerate that it's a poor measure of anything other than glxgears framerate. <borik> Ð° Ð½Ð° ÑÐºÐ¾Ð»ÑÐºÐ¾ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð±Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ð»Ð¸? <nags> ping mvo <mvo> hello nags <nags> mvo, in Ubuntu QA Sprint UK with ara and others :) <nags> mvo, is there a chance that gksu-polkit will be there in Jaunty ? <nags> mvo, http://live.gnome.org/gksu <n0s0r0g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/278800 - i don't see this bug on my asus eeepc 900 (bug exists in intrepid on same eeepc). <ubot4> Launchpad bug 278800 in linux "ath5k giving frequent, intermittent wireless dropouts on EeePC 900" [Undecided,Confirmed] <nags> mvo, we need this for Jaunty update-manager automation <mvo> nags: hm, do you need it for main or is universe enough? <nags> mvo, when we use gksu or sudo it hangs <nags> mvo, not sure, ara ? <mvo> nags: or a start I can upload it into my ppa <mvo> s/or/for/ <davmor2> mvo: I think as long as it can be installed for now it would be a start :) <nags> mvo, that will be nice :) * nags heading out for lunch with the team <ara> mvo: universe should be enough <n0s0r0g> Eee pc 900 cpu scaling and WiFi toggle key does NOT work out of the box. <mvo> nags, ara: I put it in my ppa for now <n0s0r0g> Mic on eeePC 900 need some tricks (same as in Intrepid) to begin working. <borik> KDE was crashed <borik> plasma <persia> n0s0r0g, The toggle key *definitely* deserves a bug: that's probably just a definition missing. <n0s0r0g> persia, this bug describes the problem with wireless toggle key https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/232170 ? <ubot4> Launchpad bug 232170 in mandriva "EeePC Volume and Wireless Hotkeys Do Not Function Out-Of-The-Box with Ubuntu (8.04 Hardy LTS, Intrepid Alpha 1)" [Unknown,Fix released] <persia> n0s0r0g, So it's just the rfkill_input bit that's missing? <n0s0r0g> This bug have a solution: patch a jauntry kernel with Matthew Garret's patch. I can't test it... <persia> Have you tried with apw's kernel at http://people.ubuntu.com/~apw/lp232170-jaunty/ ? <persia> Looks to me like he's looking for more feedback to roll that into mainline. <n0s0r0g> persia, Can i install this kernel in LiveUSB mode? <persia> Yes, but awkwardly. <persia> Install the kernel. Then copy /boot/vmliunz-whatever to /casper/vmlinuz on your USB stick. Then copy /boot/initrd-whatever to /initrd.img on your USB stick. Then delete the other new files in /boot, then reboot. <persia> Mind you, you'll need to recreate the USB stick to get back to the regular kernel, as undoing that is even more complicated. <n0s0r0g> persia, I'll try, thanks. <persia> n0s0r0g, Good luck. Be nice to confirm that the fix works, and get it into the main archive. <apw> n0s0r0g, please report back n bug #232170 if you dp <ubot4> Launchpad bug 232170 in mandriva "EeePC Volume and Wireless Hotkeys Do Not Function Out-Of-The-Box with Ubuntu (8.04 Hardy LTS, Intrepid Alpha 1)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232170 <nags> davmor2, URL: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-test-specs/trunk/Gnome-2.12-Testcases/ <nags> Formatted HEAD URLs: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-test-specs/trunk/Gnome-2.12-Testcases/ <nags> oops wrong person :) <davmor2> nags: Np's did you get the right person? <nags> davmor2, it should be to Dave <nags> Daviey, not sure his id <nags> ah ! bad xchat tab filling by me :( <davmor2> dave murphy <davmor2> is schwuk <nags> davmor2, yes <nags> davmor2, cool, thanks :) <davmor2> schwuk: ^^^^^^ * Daviey stabs nags with tab comeplete <cr3> fader: I think I found a solution to bug #339773! <ubot4> Launchpad bug 339773 in checkbox "Using Checkbox with Python 2.6 fails in httplib" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339773 <fader> cr3: w00t! <fader> What is it? <cr3> fader: documented in the bug, you happen to be running jaunty? <fader> cr3: I do indeed... * davmor2 Sends Daviey to the corner till he learns to play nicely with everyone :P <charlie-tca> are the alternate images failing again today? <charlie-tca> Can't do a guided install if the disk is partitioned into multiple partitions previously... <charlie-tca> Rebooted, failed to complete "Select and install software" <davmor2> charlie-tca: looks like it yes races issue again I'm guessing just waiting for confirmation from cjwatson <charlie-tca> thanks <charlie-tca> I can't seem to get any install off the alternate cd <davmor2> wait for the error message to appear and then roughly hit with the hammer I gave you. Hit alt-ctrl-del and try again <charlie-tca> okay, I will * charlie-tca forgot about the having the hammer <davmor2> schwuk: ping <davmor2> any idea why this is happening http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/SmokeTesting/Results <davmor2> damn enter instead of space again Meh <davmor2> charlie-tca: does it work this time? <ara> stgraber: ping <charlie-tca> no, it completed the install and booted to tty1 <charlie-tca> Gonna try again <charlie-tca> maybe I didn't do the hammer right? <davmor2> charlie-tca: needs to swing it hard :) <charlie-tca> ;) <stgraber> ara: pong <ara> stgraber: is it possible to change my username in isotracker/brainstorm without losing the history? <stgraber> yes <ara> stgraber: right now is "areta", and it would be better to be just "ara" <stgraber> ok, will check if ara isn't already used and will change it <ara> stgraber: to have a correct mapping with my irc name <ara> stgraber: thanks :) <stgraber> ara: done <ara> stgraber: cool. Thanks :) <cr3> charlie-tca: what kind of problem are you having with the alternate? <charlie-tca> cr3: can't partition using Guided - Use entire disk, if it has been previously partitioned into more than two partitions <cr3> charlie-tca: when's the last time you tried an alternate? I suspect this problem might've been around for a week or so <charlie-tca> also, That's possible. 20090307 did it <charlie-tca> That was the first time I got the error, but I wasn't getting cd's for a few days, either <davmor2> cr3: it's been around for a while but it gets fixed then broke then fixed then broke etc <charlie-tca> Also, if I reboot, the install continues, but fails near the end of "Select and install software" <charlie-tca> If gives a failed to install error, and won't continue <cr3> davmor2: man, that must be a heck of a bug! <charlie-tca> It is, cr3 <schwuk> davmor2: fixed <davmor2> charlie-tca: it might be because of libavcodec-unstripped-52 <cr3> charlie-tca: if you drop to a shell, does /var/log/syslog show anything interesting? <charlie-tca> Yeah? <davmor2> cr3: see above :) <schwuk> davmor2: you had a trailing whitespace on the last table row. <cr3> davmor2: nice! <davmor2> schwuk: D'oh I just couldn't see it :) <charlie-tca> libavformat52: Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 3:0.svn20090204) but it is not installable or libavcodec-unstripped-52 (>= 3:0.svn20090204) but it is not in <charlie-tca> You mean like that? <charlie-tca> libgegl-0.0-0: Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 3:0.svn20090128-1) but it is not installable or libavcodec-unstripped-52 (>= 3:0.svn20090128-1) but it is not installable <charlie-tca> or that? <charlie-tca> DEBUG: resolver (libnewt0.52): package doesn't exist (ignored) <cr3> schwuk: would you mind if I remove those bullets from the report page in the checkbox gtk package? it seems like that information has been superceeded by your report <charlie-tca> Looks like davmor2 hit it again <davmor2> charlie-tca: What do you mean ;) <schwuk> cr3: unsure - I think people would still like to see what's being submitted without viewing the report <charlie-tca> libavcodec-unstripped-52 <cr3> davmor2: I think charlie-tca means you rock! :) <cr3> schwuk: ok, if unsure, I'll leave it as is for now * charlie-tca thinks davmor2 hits it right on the head. <schwuk> cr3: we can always try it - if we get complaints, we can put it back... <schwuk> cr3: IOW I have no strong preferences :) <cr3> schwuk: if we leave it, I would integrate the bullets in the text a bit more clearly <cr3> schwuk: the bullets used by be preceeded by "the following information", or somesuch, whereas it is now just dangling at the end of the text <schwuk> cr3: Bin it, and see what happens. <cr3> schwuk: will do <davmor2> for a full list of things that won't install look at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html :( <davmor2> charlie-tca: or for you it would be http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/report.html <charlie-tca> Hey, very nice. thanks <davmor2> charlie-tca: not sure if you knew about that or not <charlie-tca> That would cause both 64 and 32 bit to fail, too <charlie-tca> No, never seen it before <davmor2> charlie-tca: you can also try here for build info http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/intrepid/ <charlie-tca> I'm learning, a little at a time. <davmor2> slangasek: are the missing packages likely to get fixed before Wednesday? <slangasek> davmor2: hmm? <davmor2> slangasek: It's great having a testing day where alternate fails :( <charlie-tca> I'm thinking it's better today than Wednesday/t <charlie-tca> Thursday <slangasek> davmor2: so that would be ubuntu-desktop -> gimp -> libgegl-0.0-0 <slangasek> I have to look into that today, yes <davmor2> no alternate http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html it dies on libavformat but then it's got the others to fall over if that fails :) <davmor2> slangasek: ^ <slangasek> davmor2: if I try to install these packages from the archive, they're installable; can you get me a verbose error message from the installer? <davmor2> you'll have to bare with me a minute <slangasek> davmor2: ah, n/m, it's libavcodec52 being missing <slangasek> I'll chase it up <davmor2> not it's the unstripped version that is being requested <davmor2> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/128868/ <slangasek> yes, will be fixed in a couple of hours <davmor2> Cool :) <n0s0r0g> persia, Error while installing patched kernel - "Failed to symbolic link /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-8-generic to initrd.img.". No /boot/initrd*. What I need to do? <persia> n0s0r0g: You can ignore that error in a live environment, I think. That said, if the files you need aren't present after install, you might need to try to work around it rather than ignoring it. #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-10 <timo> hello all <persia> For SRU verification: how many people need to test to move from verification-needed to verification-done? If there are two positive verification tests, can anyone adjust this, or must it be a member of the SRU verification team? * smb_tp yawns <ara> morning all! <davmor2> Morning <DIVER> ppl, when i can download alpha 6? <charlie-tca> It should be released on 2009-03-12 <DIVER> thanks ) <Chubakur> Ubuntu have beta? Or alpha only ? :-) <Chubakur> sorry, i bad speak at English <charlie-tca> Ubuntu Jaunty is in alpha right now. <charlie-tca> After alpha 6 will be a beta image. <Chubakur> nice :-) <Chubakur> thanks <apw> cr3, just a warning i pushed up some suspend_test fixes, hope i haven't bust anything <cr3> apw: you might like to keep the author in the changelog to schwuk or myself, because we do the packaging and such. also, the changelog should not containing a leading empty line :) <cr3> apw: other than that, all good <apw> dch does that crap to me by itself <cr3> s/containing/contain/ <apw> and the blank line ... DOH <apw> sorry <borik_> I am 8.10 updating 9.04 alpha 5 <borik_> Feary <borik_> alternate cd <borik_> Ð°Ð°Ð° <borik_> Kernel Panic <xXHorstiXxx_> hi #ubuntu-testing 2009-03-11 <n0s0r0g> persia, About wifi-toggle key on asus eeepc. Error while installing patched kernel - "Failed to symbolic link /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-8-generic to initrd.img.". No /boot/initrd*. What I need to do? <persia> n0s0r0g, Do you have a /boot/initrd.img-2.6.28-8-generic ? <n0s0r0g> No. <persia> Hrm. <persia> Do you have any initrd in /boot as a result of the failed installation? <n0s0r0g> No. <n0s0r0g> Dpkg return something like this: "update-initramfs is disabled on LiveCD" before error. <persia> Ah. That's it. <persia> It used to not be disabled, but it was confusing because one had to copy stuff manually. <persia> Apparently disabling it broke that behaviour. There was a new patch to casper to undisable it in certain situations yesterday. <persia> I'll recommend trying again with the Alpha-6 images. <n0s0r0g> Ok, thanks. I'll try alpha6. <ara> morning all :) <ara> morning davmor2! aren't you around? <davmor2> Morning <davmor2> ara: Yes I'm here I was just trying to sort out my email :) <davmor2> evo decided to lock up and not play <davmor2> ara: No back at home only there last night :) <davmor2> slangasek: you still about <nags> mvo, I still notice this bug in Ubuntu 9.04 http://pastebin.com/d511706be <mvo> nags: I remember we talked about it some days ago, what was dokos opinion about it? <nags> mvo, dokos just say, somebody packaged it without testing it <nags> mvo, its really annoying me, when installing / updating the package <mvo> nags: I can fix it, could you please push the diff to debian then? <nags> mvo, oops not sure, how to do that :D <nags> mvo, currently in Ubuntu QA Sprint, UK, with me ara and other team members are here, can I speak with some one here ? <mvo> nags: heh :) sure, it should be easy, just ask around, I'm sure someone did it before <mvo> nags: testing the fix now <davmor2> Morning Chris Gregan how's the head <nags> mvo, sorry got disconnected <nags> mvo, was there any update for me ? <mvo> nags: no, just that its a harder problem than initiially thought, there is at least a nasty bug in python-central involved as well <nags> mvo, oops :) <nags> mvo, will wait then <mvo> nags: bug #341014 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 341014 in python-central "package with no "Python-Version" cause havoc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341014 <nags> mvo, cool thanks, let me add
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