#ubuntu-devel 2005-09-01 <elmo> eh, the hoary installer is trying to give me 12Gb of swap <ogra> elmo, sure, hibernate needs 3x RAM :p <infinity> elmo : Should I light up the buildds again, or is jackass going to be up and down all day? <elmo> fire it up <elmo> I know what's killing it, and I'll just not do that <infinity> Heh. <elmo> I'll not be migrating it to the weekend <elmo> the buildds fail nicely when they can't ssh to jackass tho right? <infinity> Yes. <elmo> ok <infinity> Assuming the hotname won't change when you migrate. <infinity> hostname, even. <elmo> ip/hostname/ssh will all remain the same <infinity> (Well, they'd fail nicely either way, they'd just not stop failing if the hostname changes) <mae> has anyone noticed slight performance hits in drawing operations since gnome 2.12(cairo) <mdz> tseng: monodevelop moved <tseng> mdz: thank you. <tseng> mdz: the rest will follow? <mdz> tseng: the rest? <tseng> mdz: gtk-sharp2 was the goal <mdz> tseng: most of it wants to go to universe, but not the source package <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt <mdz> tseng: monodoc-gtk2.0-manual is still in Supported <tseng> im seeing that <tseng> depended on by monodoc-manual <mdz> oh? <tseng> yes. <mdz> I don't see any dependencies on it <tseng> hm yes <tseng> where did i just see this <tseng> oh, -gtk2.0- depends on monodoc-manual <tseng> not the other way <tseng> i see no rdepends for monodoc-gtk2.0-manual <mdz> tseng: I've removed it, cross-merged to kubuntu and edubuntu <mdz> it should fall out in the next germinate run <tseng> mdz: wonderful, ill watch this anastacia page. <mdz> tseng: if you poke me when it disappears from people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/ then I'll push it through immediately after <tseng> mdz: can do. <infinito> where should gnome applets files been installed?? <elmo> Rejected: lsb-release-udeb_1.4-8ubuntu1_i386.udeb: architecture part of filename (i386) does not match package architecture in the udeb (all). <elmo> ^-- whoever uploaded lsb-release last <elmo> hmm, colin, a month ago <salkin> Hi, this is not a support request. I am just having trouble getting a bugzilla login and I wanted to mention that emacs fails to even start on my breezy/x86 install. No messages when started from console. Strace didn't tell me anything useful with a quick read. I just wanted to make someone aware of that. Thanks. <ajmitch> elmo: could you sync socketapi from debian? c++ lib rename was unnecessary <xhaker> elmo: while you're at syncs check if Scite 1.64-2 is already at the debian pool and sync it <ajmitch> elmo: also sync plucker, drop ubuntu changes * xhaker is away (Away, bnc logging) <mdz> tseng: stuff moved <Keybuk> mmm, baz is _so_ fast, oh yes <Keybuk> two hours just to do glibc *sigh* <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS! <whiprush> yay! <ajmitch> morning jdub <glick> hi all <glick> ok so i checked out the website on ubuntulinux about contributing but i dont see a concrete list of what has to be done or maintained <glick> its all very fuzzy <glick> id like to contribute, maintain a coupla packages but where to begin? <jdub> glick: the motu team! <ajmitch> most packages start off in universe, which is cared for by the masters of the universe <ajmitch> in #ubuntu-motu <jdub> glick: #ubuntu-motu or wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU <glick> hmmm <Keybuk> Dear Shadow Maintainer ... a patch file for every translation change is NOT CLEVER! :p <elmo> jesus, are you kidding? * fabbione yawns <fabbione> morning <fabbione> Keybuk: ahahaha <Keybuk> syndicate shadow-4.0.3% ls debian/patches <Keybuk> : <Keybuk> 101_cs.dpatch <Keybuk> 102_de.dpatch <Keybuk> : <Keybuk> 112_da.dpatch <Keybuk> 113_es.dpatch <Keybuk> : <Keybuk> 126_tr.dpatch <Keybuk> 127_zh_CN.dpatch <Keybuk> : <Keybuk> 205_it-manpages.dpatch <Keybuk> 206_ko-manpages.dpatch <Keybuk> etc. * fabbione sighs <rob^> hey, I'm getting in breezy: The following packages have unmet dependencies: <rob^> scorched3d: Depends: libwxgtk2.4 (>= 156.14.161.142ubuntu1) which is a virtual package. <rob^> any ideas? <crimsun_> I haven't uploaded the fixed one yet <crimsun_> wait about 3 hours <rob^> thanks :) <crimsun_> (michiel already fixed it) <Keybuk> I want to know when we get the "either that wallpaper goes, or I do" release of initramfs-tools <jdub> i enjoyed the mistake-to-learn-from in the latest release <Keybuk> "Experience is simply the name we give out(sic.) mistakes." ? <Keybuk> Lady Windermere's Fan, iirc <Keybuk> it's a misquote, if it is <g> <Keybuk> Act 3, Scene 1; Dumby: Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. <jdub> s/their/they're/ for good measure <Keybuk> no, that would be wrong <jdub> that would be experience! <Keybuk> heh * jdub burns suse ppc disk 1 <jdub> OF FIVE <jdub> fascists. <Keybuk> ya know, I never knew the "The difference between England and America is that when we hold a World Championship for a particular sport, we invite teams from other countries to play too" quote was John Cleese <Keybuk> hmm <Keybuk> what did I call the last release of dpkg? * Keybuk forgets <jdub> i don't think you called it gawn blotto <Keybuk> no, I don't think I even understood that one <Keybuk> it's fine for them to make no sense to other people, but I at least have to get the joke :p <jdub> gawn is australian for gone <jdub> blotto is australian for drunk <Keybuk> I see... <Keybuk> we had an australian one already <jdub> fie. <Keybuk> in fact, we've had two if you count On Like Donkey Kong <jdub> how about 'aloha'? <Keybuk> it's quite worrying that there's about 50 of them in my dpkg-release-names file now <Keybuk> I really need to make some more releases <Keybuk> Four fonts walk into a bar. Barman says, "oi, get out! we don't serve your type" <jdub> ha ha ha <jdub> ha ha <Keybuk> Man walks into a bar with a roll of tarmac under his arm, says "pint please, and one for the road" <jdub> that is not as good <jdub> woohoo! <Keybuk> hmm? <Keybuk> SuSE downloaded a last, did it? <jdub> booting opensuse beta3 install cd on this openpower machine <jdub> Loading Installation System (67420 kB) - 10% <jdub> ha ha <Keybuk> I see, defecting are we? <jdub> no <jdub> learning their secrets <jdub> so we too can boot on openpower <Keybuk> do we not? <jdub> nup <Keybuk> cunning <jdub> doesn't recognise the os on the cd <jdub> some funky cd build or yaboot foo involved * jdub keenly awaits kamion's return <Keybuk> he's not coming back <Keybuk> and when he does, he's not allowed more than 8 minutes of installer time a week <Keybuk> he's married now <Keybuk> it'll be different <jdub> that's okay, we're in the same club ;) <Keybuk> yes, but you're married to pia -- which makes you the woman in the family <g> <jdub> wow, their curses installer has no respect for 19200 bps <Keybuk> Gentoo's does <Keybuk> you can install Gentoo over a 300 bps serial line <Keybuk> "make" doesn't need much in the way of fancy graphics <Keybuk> actually, someone told me the other week that Gentoo had a graphical installer now. I asked whether it was XEmacs <jdub> after configuring the language, timezone and time <jdub> i have "desktop selection" <jdub> describing both kde and gnome as "powerful and intuitive" and which mailer, browser and file manager they use <jdub> comical <Keybuk> you know the whole "innovation" argument <jdub> they ask BEFORE PARTITIONING <Keybuk> where those who claim they're innovating are usually the ones who do all the "ripping off" <Keybuk> well, two of the gay clubs in Birmingham are opposite the road from each other <Keybuk> The Nightingale and DV8 <Keybuk> the 'gale, after a refit, opened up during the afternoon and early evening as a bar and restaurant <Keybuk> they called the bar "B5" ... not really sure why, but that's it's name <Keybuk> a few months later, DV8 followed suit and opened up their bar outside of club ours <Keybuk> they called it "innov8" <Keybuk> I've been trying to explain the irony of this to various friends for a while now, but they don't get it <Keybuk> (now I think about it, B5 is probably the postcode) <jdub> why do we do -build versioning again? <crimsun_> jdub: they signify only a rebuild <jdub> yeah, what situations do we do a rebuild without changelog? <Keybuk> libraries underneath them changed <crimsun_> hmm? changelog should at least note rebuild or something to that effect; usually it's to use newer libs, like Keybuk mentioned <jdub> man, this installer stinks over 19200 * jdub ignores suse recommendation for reiser <Keybuk> changelog has to mention it, in fact <Keybuk> I challenge your claim to have seen a build version without a changelog entry <jdub> :-) <Keybuk> BECAUSE, and this is the clever bit, the version number comes _from_ the changelog entry <jdub> yes dear <Keybuk> the only other kinds of rebuilds are when they fail on the buildd for some logical reason that just means you have to give them back <Keybuk> that's the "laaaaamont" kind of rebuild <jdub> gar. <Keybuk> that's usually due to being uploaded before the shared library that changed <jdub> after repartitioning, it suggests i won't be able to boot unless i do a particular thing with partitioning <jdub> eeeediots <jdub> and almost every character change requires a screen update <Keybuk> sweet <Keybuk> I must admit to having never tried debconf over a serial line <Keybuk> does that not suck? <jdub> it's not this bad at all <Keybuk> hmm, I better get in the shower <Keybuk> got to get to Uncle Steve's before we head off to the pub <Keybuk> and it's a 4 hour train ride :-/ <jdub> say hello to the gang <Keybuk> will do <Keybuk> ciao <Hieronymus> Treenaks: wakker? <Hieronymus> aargh, er zijn weer random mensen die een pm-window met mij openen <Hieronymus> net als gisteren <Hieronymus> brr... eng <Hieronymus> sorry! <Hieronymus> Wrong channel! <jdub> ;-) <Hieronymus> it's because #ubuntu being weird <ompaul> Seveas, where to now? <mdz> Keybuk was going to Steve's and the pub at 0700? <jdub> mdz: four hour train ride <mdz> jdub: even so...;-) <jdub> i think they have a bbq and stuff ;) <pef> hi <jdub> YAY, ubuntu livecd chroot on the 710 :) <Treenaks> \\o o// <jdub> hrm, no devices detected from the mga driver. hrm. <sivang> jdub: ah, colin has retunred and you made a bootable image? <jdub> sivang: no, using livecd chroot on top of opensuse <sivang> jdub: ah cool, that leaves for me at least some of the work for sunday/monday :) <sivang> jdub: are you X on the matrox? <jdub> can't get it running atm <jdub> (II) MGA: driver for Matrox chipsets: mga2064w, mga1064sg, mga2164w, mga2164w AGP, mgag100, mgag100 PCI, mgag200, mgag200 PCI, mgag400, mgag550 <jdub> (EE) No devices detected. <jdub> very yummy dual-cpu dual-core though :) <sivang> jdub: hehe, I know ;) can you post a photo of your machine? (I'd like to see it) <jdub> um <jdub> no <jdub> camera was nicked while i was in the states <sivang> ah bummers <sivang> jdub: how is oopensuse on that machine, btw? <jdub> seems ok <jdub> only done a minimal install <jdub> have to get rc on here <sivang> jdub: rc? <jdub> red carpet <sivang> eh :) * sivang --> logout, login <sivang> jdub: does the machines weighs alot? <sivang> s/machines/machine/ <jdub> not really, it's surprisingly light <jdub> 18-32kg says the box <Treenaks> That's light? <sivang> Treenaks: that's light :) <sivang> jdub: mine is about ~50Kg <sivang> jdub: it's a beast <Treenaks> sivang: what is it then? :) <sivang> Treenaks: pSeries POWER5 , hypervisor enabled virtualization platfrom by IBM <Treenaks> sivang: ah ok :) then it _is_ light ;) <sivang> Treenaks: I am running 6 operating systems on it, at the same time with no apparent latency. <Treenaks> sivang: nice <sivang> Treenaks: It's very interesting piece of hardware <Treenaks> sivang: I still think virtualisation is being overhyped atm :) <sivang> it supports virtualizaion at the hardware level, having a special component multiplexing the hardware in a way that each partition, is truely a machine of its own <Treenaks> sivang: I know what a hypervisor is :) <sivang> ah oops , sorry:) <Treenaks> sivang: np :) <Treenaks> sivang: and it's a really cool idea.. I just don't see the use, that's all :) <Treenaks> ADJECTIVE ADJECTIVE {EXPLETIVE NOUN}! <Treenaks> some "YahooSeeker-Testing/v3.9" is retrieving /log/Ubuntu/keyboard-crack.html every _6_ seconds <sivang> Treenaks: where from? <Treenaks> sivang: 707.728.7583 <sivang> Treenaks: that your ip? <Treenaks> sivang: no, that's theirs <sivang> Treenaks: what's that file got in it? <Treenaks> sivang: a blog post <Treenaks> sivang: http://foodfight.org/log/Ubuntu/keyboard-crack <sivang> Treenaks: ah :) <HiddenWolf> Is the lastest daily working? * sivang needs a faster machine for gnome pkgs build <sivang> this testing cycle takes too long.. <Treenaks> sivang: you said you had a POWER5 ;) <sivang> Treenaks: nonon :) I don't have 15k$ for a computer machine :) williamsmith@example.net.... <Treenaks> sivang: ssh compilefarm.work :P <sivang> Treenaks: they bought the higher end of this line, since it's also used as a build server and runs both a couple of instances of AIX and linux simultaneously <Treenaks> I _really_ like this ultra high resolution on this laptop <Treenaks> makes the fonts so crisp & clean :) <Treenaks> 1920x1200 @ 15.4" <tseng> mm <HiddenWolf> Treenaks, and you where calling me a showoff when I was happy with my 24" lcd! * HiddenWolf laughs <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: oh, you were talking about an LCD :P <rubenv> j^: I just installed your network manager packages for breezy, they work like a charm, nicely done :-) <sivang> Treenaks: notification area, is the panel area that displays applets icons? <Treenaks> sivang: it's the one which displays the red "You need to upgrade" icon, the Gaim icon, etc. <hunger> Is there a fixed network-manager deb yet? <rob^> heh <hunger> Last monday somebody was working on that... <rubenv> hunger: not officialy in the archives, but: http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ <sivang> Treenaks: and what is wncklet used for? <rubenv> sivang: window lists etc <rubenv> it's a 3 in 1 applet * hunger is updating 192MiB at the moment... all the stuff that changed since monday. <hunger> You sure are keeping yourself busy! <Treenaks> sivang: that's the desktop switcher <hunger> Could somebody please update sl-modem-daemon to depend on the linux-restricted-modules instead of sl-modem-modules-new (which does not exist in ubuntu)? Better yet: suggest lrm only since sl-modem-daemon runs with alsa as well. <frans-th> hi all <frans-th> anyone can share with me the ubuntu development process and license? <jsgotangco> hey <frans-th> hi jsg <frans-th> how r u <jsgotangco> brb dinner <Mez> frans-th, ??? <frans-th> wow, what time there? here 5 <frans-th> hi Mez :) i am from indonesia <Mez> "<frans-th> anyone can share with me the ubuntu development process and license?" <frans-th> :P thx <frans-th> right now, i have a job from goverment, i think jsgotangco, known it, we did a chat in this channel in several days <frans-th> i have 2 question about ubuntu development. <frans-th> this is not technical question, can share here? or pm better? <Treenaks> frans-th: Language? :) <jdub> frans-th: this is the best channel for it <frans-th> cool <frans-th> hi jdub, <frans-th> ok <frans-th> right now, i have a donation from canada goverment, called SIDA for open source development <frans-th> we will use webservices and java, <frans-th> and there is a small project, donation about sun server, for promoting open source, and i will make it become ubuntu repository <frans-th> those are clear, i just wait the time <frans-th> and there is a small project, to change ubuntu name become local brand. the project named by our goverment is merpati, mean piegon in indonesian language <frans-th> but, i am personally better to promote ubuntu, in several way, but need information more about the ubuntu brand. <jdub> go on <frans-th> i believe ubuntu brand is more open thatn redhat, suse, and of course JDS :) <frans-th> JDS here renamed become IGOS Desktop with nick name Garuda, mean eagle in english <frans-th> i believe that make a new brand, is need more time, becuase the team must rename the ubuntu theme to our theme, <frans-th> and of course, change = make it must be tested first, and it is wasting time <frans-th> i prefer to make the team become part of ubuntu development rather make thi <frans-th> this project to make sure that we have a free and always free linux solution <jdub> all of this is fine <frans-th> any comment on this? <jdub> we encourage rebranding <frans-th> in our experience promoting linux in indonesia <frans-th> there is 2 local brand, made by several of my friend, the software is not good as the original, both is a rebrand from fedora core 3 <frans-th> but, Sun make the JDS become "IGOS Desktop" <frans-th> and because the promotor is Sun, several goverment love it, but Sun charge for US$ 50/PC <frans-th> we know JDS is commercial product <frans-th> i think, in this case, we need a local brand of ubuntu, but ubuntu name there <frans-th> that is not possible, because there is no ubuntu indonesia here, and there is canonical branch in indonesia <jdub> hold on <frans-th> so, if we change to local brand, we cannot make the charisma llike ubuntu that happen here <jdub> neither of those are restrictions to you creating an indonesian branded version of ubuntu <frans-th> jdub: what is that mean? <jdub> you can make your own version without canonical's permission <frans-th> i think, this channel is cool, you are very helpfull :P <jdub> also, you could start an indonesian LoCo team <frans-th> jdub: i know, we can change the ubuntu, if we know how to make it, but the problem is, the trust of the new version must be less than ubuntu name <jdub> frans-th: you could put "powered by ubuntu" on it :-) <frans-th> i think, that is better to make ubuntu still :) so the ubuntu brand can become national distro <frans-th> jdub: Waroeng IGOS and Blankon have that word, create based on Fedora Core 3, but i see after 3 month promotions, the popularity is getting down <frans-th> jdub: i personally, love ubuntu more :P <jdub> why do you think they are less popular? <frans-th> so, my question is, how open ubuntu brand <frans-th> they are less popular, because several goverment wont use Waroeng IGOS and Blankon, they prefer IGOS Desktop from Sun, but of course with out paying <frans-th> i think we need a global brand for this project, or like global support, <frans-th> honestly, there are no support from Sun, :) <frans-th> just marketing wording <jdub> ok <jdub> so canonical provides global support for ubuntu <frans-th> what kind of global support? <jdub> but there is also the ubuntu marketplace - a list of companies who are supporting ubuntu <frans-th> i never got this information <jdub> see the support section on www.ubuntu.com :) <frans-th> my point is, i dont want to make a rebranding version :) and the goverment make an exception to make ubuntu become national standard distro, so my job reduced here, just to support ubuntu :P <frans-th> jdub: can explain about the process of ubuntu development <jdub> you could become a support partner <frans-th> ? how open is it? <jdub> totally open <jdub> you can become a maintainer of the supported packages :) <frans-th> that is :) because ubuntu is very very open, make a local brand is not good <jdub> it's not like fedora/rhel <frans-th> i will become a maintainer of support in the future, after the server arrived :) i am in the process to there. <frans-th> that why, because you are more open than fedora, ubuntu brand is the cool brand :) <jdub> frans-th: would it help you if someone from canonical visited to talk to your government agencies about ubuntu, and how they can use it? <frans-th> `can.. <frans-th> if there is a canonical guy wanna help me, i can give the goverment contact to you <frans-th> and he is the project manager of those of this kind of open source movement <frans-th> and this job directly from the minister <jdub> frans-th: ok, i would be happy to help <jdub> williamsmith@example.net <frans-th> ok <frans-th> i will email you and cc to him, <jdub> great! <frans-th> you can ask to those guys, that rebranding is a good case for education, but your investment from canonical, is better the goverment join the ubuntu netwrok <frans-th> what do you think? <jdub> sounds good to me <frans-th> ok <jdub> i will have to find out what sounds good to them ;) <frans-th> i will email you and cc to him <frans-th> cool <hunger> daniels: You maintain the linux-restricted-modules now in addition to X? You must be a busy guy. <frans-th> because if we success, the 800 PC that is donated to the schools here, can become more popular :) <jdub> :-) <frans-th> because the openenst of ubuntu :) <frans-th> wait ok :P <jdub> j^: ping <j^> jdub pong <frans-th> :P <jdub> j^: just trying out your n-m packages - NM is failing to start bind <tseng> speaking of, can we upload those soon? <rubenv> j^: any way to make it not ask my keyring password every time I boot up? <j^> jdub did you make sure it is not running before starting NM? <rubenv> now I have to login <rubenv> wait for it to detect my wired is not cabled <jdub> j^: yeah, i stopped it <rubenv> enter my keyring pass <j^> jdub whats the error in syslog? <rubenv> and then I finally have networking <jdub> aha <jdub> Aug 27 21:00:35 ubuntu named[10522] : couldn't open pid file '/var/lib/NetworkManager/NetworkManager-pid-named': Permission denied <jdub> Aug 27 21:00:35 ubuntu named[10522] : exiting (due to early fatal error) <j^> rubenv i dont know a way, you might ask on williamsmith@example.net <j^> jdub does /var/lib/NetworkManager/ exist? <rubenv> j^: will do, thx <jdub> yeah <j^> hm <jdub> i'm starting it as root, too ;) <j^> /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager does: <j^> test -d /var/lib/NetworkManager || mkdir -p /var/lib/NetworkManager <j^> chown -R bind:bind /var/lib/NetworkManager <j^> chmod 755 /var/lib/NetworkManager <frans-th> jdub: finished email to you :P <jdub> oh <jdub> aha * jdub restarts dbus <jdub> boh <j^> would be cool if /etc/init.d/dbus restart would restart dbus :) <{Seb}> oin #ubuntu <frans-th> jdub: i will call the contact after this, and hopefully he will love it :) <jdub> hj <jdub> j^: ok, so that fixes it, but nm-applet could not start due to missing resources... <j^> jdub missing resources? <jdub> seriously ;) <j^> thats the error message? <jdub> The NetworkManager applet could not find some required resources. It cannot continue. <j^> never seen that <j^> what does it say in the terminal? <jdub> ** (nm-applet:10963): WARNING **: Icon nm-no-connection missing: Icon 'nm-no-connection' not present in theme <jdub> though it's there <jdub> and i've rebuilt the cache <j^> nm-applet --sm-disable <jdub> yeah, get the error, don't get nicon <jdub> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/nm-no-connection.png <j^> is that installed? <jdub> yep <jdub> aha! <jdub> i forced an icon cache rebuild for hicolor <jdub> now it's happy <j^> how can one do that? might be something for nms postint <j^> *postinst <jdub> gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ <jdub> maybe don't need the -f, but it worked for me <jdub> hrm, the nicon is annoyingly wide <j^> there is some discussion on the list about it <jdub> so how do you interop with /etc/network/interfaces ? <j^> right now it read /e/n/i on startup, <j^> if it finds iface .. static <j^> it uses that <jdub> uses that as seed configuration? <jdub> ah, right <j^> nameservers are a problem right now <j^> for static configuration <j^> if nothing or dhcp is fond in /e/n/i NM handles all on its own <j^> modem connections are also read from /e/n/i iface .. inet ppp <j^> but that is all part of the debian backend and can be changed <jdub> excellent :) <jdub> i'll keep testing <j^> enjoy <j^> if you have a vpnc server you can also test that <hunger> j^: When will it hit the ubuntu archives? <j^> i dont, so i only packaged it <hunger> j^: only post-breezy? <j^> hunger thats up to infinity or the person maintaining nm in the end, it could/should go into universe now <j^> since the version in universe does not work at all <hunger> j^: Yeap, I fully agree with you on that:-) <j^> and main inclusion was moved post-breezy if i understand right <hunger> j^: Yes, that was my impression as well. <j^> that would also need some work on things like network-amdin <hunger> j^: And I still do not like nm too much... I hate having several places to configure things. <j^> network-admin and NetworkManager do not like eachother <j^> hunger several places? <hunger> j^: /e/n/i and wherever NM stores its stuff. <jdub> NM is dynamic :-) <hunger> jdub: It does store wlan keys, etc., dosen't it? <j^> hunger you should not have to use static ips on a laptop in a dynamic workd <j^> *world <tseng> hunger: in gnome keyring <hunger> j^: No, but I do have lots of WLAN ids, currently nicely configured in /e/n/i. <j^> hunger move on and remove it <j^> legacy <j^> if you want to use NM forget about any systemwide wireless configuration <hunger> j^: Yes... but since NM can not handle static IPs I still need those. <j^> hunger you could make NMs static ip support better <j^> or you could stop using static ips on wireless networks <hunger> j^: NM can not handle systemwide WLAN configs? Now that is annoying! <jdub> why are systemwide wlan configs important to you? <j^> hunger complain on williamsmith@example.net <hunger> j^: Because I do not want my users to set up there own... <j^> hunger in which case NM is not for you <hunger> j^: Only root should do that or they will use their laptops at home and stuff. <j^> NM is for laptops and dynamic network environments <hunger> j^: s/at home/in non-approved environments/ ;-) <j^> not for "i dont want users on my laptop to change the wireless settings, but they are free to take out the battery" <hunger> j^: They can take out the battery all they want... as long as they do not use unlicensed networks:-) <j^> haha, how long does it take you to change the root pwd of you have the laptop on your lap? <hunger> j^: It is not about how long it takes *me*, but how long it takes my users. <j^> one boot with the livecd <j^> security by obscurity? <hunger> j^: Not possible... <hunger> j^: Yes... to an extend. <jdub> hunger: mandatory settings for n-m will turn up fairly soon, probably after it stablises bit <j^> hunger i come back to the point, you can add that functionality to nm if you need it <j^> or not use nm <hunger> j^: I think not using NM is the easier option to take:-) <j^> i for one do not understand what why you would limit wireless access <j^> like that <hunger> j^: I never claimed I did... ask the management. <j^> its wrong from the conseptual side <j^> fix the management <hunger> j^: I definitly prefer writing NM from scratch to that:-) <j^> haha <j^> i love people that are so confident of how much they can do <j^> see you next year * j^ starts writing TheManagement from scratch * siretart thought network-manager was dropped for breezy. is that correct? <tseng> the goal was dropped <tseng> the package was not <jdub> the goal was dropped <jdub> heh <tseng> we should add j^'s package <tseng> because they arent spectacuarly broken <jdub> totally <siretart> good idea <jdub> j^: are you a MOTU? <j^> jdub no <siretart> j^: do you have a package ready for upload? <jdub> http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager-breezy/ <jdub> :-) <crispin> j^, yeah, thanks for your package, I was using an ancient version, but yours work wonderfully :-) <jdub> oh, hey crispin <j^> jdub where do i have so sign to be a MOTU <crispin> hi jdub <siretart> ok. who wants to upload his crack? ;) <jdub> j^: all info on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU <siretart> j^: /join #ubuntu-motu <jdub> OH SUDDEN PAINS OF HUNGER <tseng> haha <Mithrandir> j^: why on earth do you think that freedesktop #4267 is critical? <HiddenWolf> Who did secondstageinstallerprogress? <jdub> kamion <tseng> i thought mvo <HiddenWolf> In any case, you've got a glaring bug there. It just stalls if it needs to install a dependency and the cdrom is not in the drive. I'll file a bug as soon as I've got a workable system. <HiddenWolf> (discover1, libdiscover & others) <j^> Mithrandir because that breaks using pkg-config on mingw32? <HiddenWolf> daniels, around? <Mithrandir> j^: if you use -uninstalled, yes. Anyway, if you can find out why it does that, it would be appreciated; I don't have a mingw32 box. <hunger> Any ideas why I get "Invalid module format" on insmods? <j^> Mithrandir first i wanted to creat a bug, later i will check if i can find the problem <Mithrandir> j^: ok, patches accepted. <Lathiat> has gamin / nautilus upating etc stopped working for anyone else recently? it seems to pretty much never work <jdub> my desktop doesn't seem to list half the files on it sometimes <Lathiat> but pressing control-r finds them? <Lathiat> menu updating hardly works either * Lathiat looks for a recent gamin upload <infinity> Meh. Has anyone else seen apt-listchanges segfaulting recently? <Mithrandir> : tfheen@vawad ~ > file =apt-listchanges <Mithrandir> /usr/bin/apt-listchanges: a /usr/bin/python script text executable <infinity> Right, not apt-listchanges itself... An strace show the last thing before death is opening /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/atk.so * infinity checks to see if he can reproduce it on another machine. <infinity> Fun, it just hangs on another machine. I guess I need mvo/mdz to give it some love. <jdub> http://stream.fluendo.com:8850 <jdub> mark at akademy ^ <siretart> w00t! <sivang> jdub: very nice :) <sivang> jdub: talking about KDE in ubuntu? <jdub> hasn't touched on that yet <jdub> he's doing the usual keynote atm <sivang> jdub: ah, is it live feed ? <jdub> yes <HiddenWolf> anyone here working on xorg? <sivang> jdub: cool <HiddenWolf> Guys, I have a sudoer user with "acces to cdromdrives" enabled in users-admin, but I cannot acces my cdroms... where do I file that bug? <joefso> hello <joefso> cdimage.ubuntulinux.org is down <joefso> sometimes it's up for a view seconds <Seveas> try releases.ubuntu.com <Seveas> or se.releases.ubuntu.com <slomo> does somebody know why ffmpeg is in main? it seems like it isn't needed by any main packages <slomo> oh sorry, kino needs it and is in main... <Treenaks> _needs_ it? <siretart> it links against it <slomo> yes... build-depends against libavcodec-dev <azeem> kino does not use gstreamer, unfortunately <azeem> or not yet, dunno <siretart> ffmpeg is really a pita :/ <hub_> do we really have the choice ? <hub_> what can replace ffmpeg ? <azeem> well, kino should be replaced with that new, whiz-bang, gstreamer based video editing application <siretart> that would probably be best <azeem> at least mid-term <slomo> hub_: nothing... but currently it's somewhat broken and imho it belongs in multiverse... <hub_> I have heard people bitching about their lack of release process <hub_> so I'm almost not surprised <azeem> "their" == ffmpeg <azeem> ? <hub_> yep <hub_> ffmep release process <siretart> gnaarf <hub_> what is the rule for universe vs mutliverse? <infinity> azeem : What new whizbang video editor is this? <siretart> ffmpeg seems to be a bigger PITA than thought <infinity> azeem : I was under the impression kino was the best we had to offer currently. <siretart> hub_: universe is free software as in dfsg <Alex> mako: Can you give me a shout when you're around please? <siretart> hub_: multiverse is all kind of software with funny licences. some of them are patent encumbered, some not <hub_> ah ok <hub_> so any GPL but patene encumbered go there <siretart> yes <infinity> hub_ : It's easier if you read main and restriced as "supported/free and supported/non-free", and universe and multiverse as "unsupported/free and unsupported/non-free", perhaps. <slomo> hub_: yes... for example lame ;) <hub_> looks like one of my packages on REVU will end up in multiverse <siretart> or mplayer <siretart> hub_: which? <hub_> autopano-sift <hub_> university of BC has a patent in the US <hub_> BC = British Columbia, Canada <infinity> Is it being actively enforced? <azeem> infinity: http://www.pitivi.org/ <hub_> infinity: don't know <azeem> http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2005/08/18/linux_video.html <infinity> azeem : Looks reasonably immature still, but promising. <azeem> yeah, I qualified my assertion to 'mid-term' :) <infinity> Is also seems to depend on gst-ffmpeg... <infinity> Not sure how that solves anything. :) <slomo> gst-ffmpeg seems to ship there own version of ffmpeg... at least it doesn't build-depend on libavcodec-dev <infinity> And statically compiling fixes license issues, how? :) <infinity> (or whatever people's concerns are with ffmpeg..) <siretart> it fixes the problems that ffmpeg seems to change apis like other people changing underwear <slomo> infinity: i don't know... but imho this ffmpeg stuff really belongs in multiverse ;) <siretart> it at least in restricted.. <j^> pitivi does not depend on gst-ffmpeg <j^> but it depends on gst-0.9 <infinity> j^ : The "what should you have installed" bit claims you should have gst-ffmpeg. <j^> and gst-ffmpeg uses its own version of ffmpeg which you can see here http://cvs.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/mirror/ffmpeg/ <infinity> Though it also claims gstreamer 0.8.10, so perhaps it's just out of date. <slomo> infinity: it helps to have it... but you can also use it without gst-ffmpeg... gst-ffmpeg only adds support for more formats <infinity> slomo : Sure, but how many people, realistically, won't want support for those formats. Handwaving with "well, you CAN use it without X, Y, Z" isn't helpful. <j^> infinity are you refering to pitivi 0.1.1= <j^> ? <azeem> indeed, I think the main merit is that you don't need to link against some library, but just decide which gstreamer plugins are available at run-time <infinity> j^ : I'm referring to the website. <shrug> <j^> Please do not use version 0.1.1 or earlier of PiTiVi. They are deprecated, unsupported and cause cancer. Use at your own risk ! Wait for the next release or try out the cvs version. <j^> you can join working on it, but currently its moving from gst-0.8 to gst-0.9 <j^> it would not recomend spending much time packaging the old version <slomo> infinity: noone ;) hm, are main packages allowed to have multiverse/universe ones in Suggests/Recommends? <infinity> Yeah, I wouldn't touch it at asll right now anyway. <infinity> Give it a bit more time ot mature, and I may be interested in supporting it in main for breezy+1... If it really is moving that quickly. <infinity> slomo : In suggests, sure. <siretart> can someone reproduce an instant rythmbox crasher? <infinity> slomo : It's bad form to recommend something non-free, as most decent package frontends attempt to auto-install (or auto-select) Recommended packages. <slomo> infinity: ok... good to know :) <infinity> slomo : If/when all the frontends properly support "Enhances", suggesting anything non-free would also be bad form, as the non-free package should just declare "Enhances: <foo-in-main>" <infinity> slomo : But that's mostly a matter of taste/style, as the end result for the user would be the same. <jordi> elmo: ping <infinity> Does Jani Monoses IRC? <slomo> infinity: yes.. that's janimo... he was yesterday and the day before at least in -motu <infinity> slomo : Ahh, doesn't seem to be around right now. <infinity> slomo : If you see him around, can you smack him around a bit for "fixing" exo by adding libglitz to its build-deps? <slomo> infinity: i've done already ;) <infinity> slomo : seb128's been frantically trying to REMOVE libglitz dependencies (which is why exo was broken). <slomo> infinity: iirc ajmitch wanted to upload a really fixed version soon <infinity> slomo : Anyhow, I've uploaded a glitz-free libxfcegui4 and exo is following it, so that should fix it all up properly. <siretart> those transitions like the libglitz desaster should really be announced on ubuntu-devel <HiddenWolf> anyone here working on udev? <infinity> slomo : I'm not sure really if we have proper procedure for this stuff, but if main changes in a way that breaks a mess of stuff in universe and you guys aren't sure why, it would be nice if you poked some distro guys for answers. <jdub> siretart: yeah, they should <infinity> siretart : Yeah, the glitz thing is/was thpethul. <siretart> thpethul? <infinity> Picture me slamming my limp wrist violently into my chest while I say it. <jdub> siretart: saying 'special' with a strong... speech impediment <slomo> infinity: sure... but it seems some know of it, some don't :( <siretart> aah. thanks.. <infinity> slomo : Yes. Ideally, seb should have posted to -devel (and probably -motu too, now that you have one) <infinity> slomo : I'll try to be more proactive in pinging people about transition issues as I see them from my position (and I see them all, whether I want to or not) <slomo> infinity: not -motu... universe-bugs afaik <siretart> -devel should be fine <jdub> jordi: catalan's primary locale id is CA, right? <infinity> -devel shold be enough, yes. <jordi> yes. <jsgotangco> hey jdub <jordi> which conflicts ubuntu-ca :) <infinity> jordi : Yes, and it confuses every Canadian I know. :) <jdub> jordi: hrm, this is going to get confusing with the canadian loco team <jordi> yup. <jordi> those lists should have been named ubuntu-loco-ca anyway. <jdub> the standard we have is ubuntu-??-l10n <jordi> If it's about territory. <infinity> <shrug>... It's not isolated, though. Lots of country codes conflict wiht language codes. <jdub> weeeell... <slomo> infinity: maybe we should create/extend a policy for that... "announce transitions to -devel" or something similar <jordi> jdub: there's only one list with that scheme <jordi> and it's brand new. <jdub> there are two <jordi> Maybe we are on time to fix the standard. <jordi> two? hm. <jdub> but seb hasn't made the fr one public <jdub> i don't think the l10n standard is incorrect <jordi> anyway, ubuntu-l10n-ca would match the lp scheme <infinity> slomo : Not sure we need a written policy for it, but asking people politely to explain transition issues on -devel when they break things isn't a terribly bad idea. :) <jdub> and ubuntu-?? covers TLDs and languages, in some cases <jordi> I wonder how many en_CA translators will join.. :) <infinity> slomo : I'll bring it up with seb when he comes back from his short vacation. <jdub> jordi: i standardised on ubuntu-??-l10n for sort order reasons <jdub> and relationship to loco team <slomo> infinity: ok, fine :) or maybe some wikipage which lists all transitions with the current state <jordi> then Catalan, Ukrainian and other langs are left out in the cold I guess. :) <jdub> unfortunately, we had different demands for loco teams <jdub> the french and chinese speakers really wanted language lists, not region lists <jordi> jdub: is mailman-admin@ incorrect? <jdub> i just replied to your email <jordi> k <jdub> it's just mailman@ <jordi> ok. <jordi> I will kill carlos. * jordi rushes to fix the wiki. * jdub furrows brow. <infinity> slomo : With the exception of really complex transitions (like the C++ transition), editing a massive wiki page to make small changes/progress is a lot more effort than just fixing all the packages and uploading them, at least I find so. <jordi> jdub: for ordering reasons, ubuntu-l10n-* orders lists too <infinity> slomo : I could fix the glitx issues (and am working on it) faster than explaining it to other people in a formal document (and keeping it updated) <jordi> (and I guess all other projects out there do stuff like this <jdub> jordi: not alongside the loco lists, however <slomo> infinity: no i meant just a list of all transitions, not the packages which are involved ;) <infinity> slomo : But I'm not against just sending a quick note to -devel and assuming that everone on distro/motu will read it. <jdub> however, i'm *this* close to switching <jordi> jdub: I guess the code clashes make this incompatible :( <jdub> hrm, seb's not here <slomo> infinity: something like "CXXTransition: done" or "libcairo1 transition: work in progress" <jdub> nor koke+carlos <infinity> slomo : You're welcome to make such a page and ping me for info on the current status (since I keep my finger on the pulse of most transitions in progress) <slomo> infinity: ok, i'll add this to my todo list ;) <infinity> slomo : I don't feel like adding "document transition status" to my list of duties, but I definitely don't mind someone else doing it and asking me for input. <jordi> jdub: just DO IT :) * siretart also thinkgs that an email with a list of packages which need to be rebuilt should really be sufficient <Mitario> elmo, ping <OculusAquilae> hi <OculusAquilae> are there problems with #ubuntu . It always says, that I'm banned <tseng> its locked to registered users only <tseng> to keep out spambots <OculusAquilae> tseng: how to register? <tseng> /msg nickserv help <OculusAquilae> thanks <LaschW> How is a registration done? Any HowTo about that? <tseng> /msg nickserv help * ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:tseng] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with breezy) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | Feature freeze! https://wiki.ubuntu.com//HelpingWithBugs | Colony 3 is released: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/colony-3/ | #ubuntu is temporarily open to registered users only to prevent spam bots. /msg nickserv help to register <OculusAquilae> tseng: hm, me and another guy are registered and it doesn't work <tseng> works for me <tseng> did you identify to nickserv? <OculusAquilae> yes <LaschW> tseng: It's me who is the other guy... <LaschW> tseng: me too <OculusAquilae> :-) <tseng> if you are properly registered and identified, i dont see why you would have any problems getting in, sorry. <azeem> 16:25 [OPN] -!- 0 - #ubuntu: ban *!*@*.dip0.t-ipconnect.de <azeem> is that not applicable to registered users? <LaschW> tseng: I would see it _very_ strange to be banned whithout _ever_ posting to the channel. <Lathiat> LaschW: its more than your ISP is banned <Lathiat> perhaps someone was being a git <LaschW> tseng: Up to now I've only been listening <tseng> its a ban on the entire block <tseng> i dont run #ubuntu, sorry. <LaschW> tseng: a block on an IP range??? <tseng> LaschW: yes??? <OculusAquilae> seems so, strange <tseng> he just showed you the hostmask being blocked. <LaschW> tseng: never heared that before, not for irc... <tseng> but im sorry to say, I cannot help you. <LaschW> tseng: who may be able to give a helping hand? <tseng> Seveas is the only oper <OculusAquilae> hm <LaschW> Seveas: Did you follow the thread between tseng, OculusAquilae and me? <Seveas> no, reading back now <Seveas> yeah, that ban is part of spambot prevention <Seveas> it failed anyway, I'll remove it <OculusAquilae> thanks <LaschW> Seveas: Hey seems you are quite close to me, location Friesland, maar het duitse Friesland <Seveas> I'm not in Friesland :) <LaschW> Seveas: Hhhm, but I would say that most dutch counties are much closer to Friesland than bavaria, eg. :-) <Seveas> hehe <Seveas> that's true <LaschW> Seveas: Most people are not able to differentiate between Friesland / Netherland / Denmark. So at least most people who are more than 500km in distance <Seveas> hahaha, how true :) <LaschW> Seveas: differentiate / onderscheidmakentussen <LaschW> Seveas: Pardon my pidgin english <LaschW> Seveas: May I ask how this bann occured, technical? <Seveas> there are spam bots all over freenode <LaschW> Seveas: Has it been a ban on IP level as tseng mentioned? <Seveas> yup <Seveas> *.dip0.t-ipconnect.de was banned <LaschW> Seveas: Interesting, didn't know that this could be done up to now <Seveas> One can just as much ban *!*@* <Seveas> which means: everyone :) <LaschW> Seveas: *.dip0.t-ipconnect.de is another ip range than my Provider uses... <hunger> where did you ban me? <LaschW> Seveas: And *.dip0.t-ipconnect.de will ban some million german Telecom customers. At least it's the biggest provider, afaik <\sh> it is the biggest <hunger> Seveas: Yeap... and it has lots of subcontractors as well... you basically locked out 95% of all german broadband users. <Seveas> yeah, that's why I removed it <hunger> Seveas: Thanks! <Seveas> the spambots have way too big a net to ban effectively <\sh> Seveas: whats the prob with t-online? <Seveas> one of the nets abused by the spambot attack... <Seveas> (which is still going on) <\sh> hmmm...freenode can file a complaint against t-online users <\sh> williamsmith@example.net or so <LaschW> Seveas: I've never noticed spam / spambots up to now. How do they occur, as normal users who behave as trolls? <OculusAquilae> i had some spambots today <Seveas> users that quickly enter+exit a channel and then spam all users on the channel in PM <Seveas> has been going on for almost a day now <hunger> \sh: t-offline does not really care in my experience. <Seveas> #ubuntu is currently blocked for non-registered users, these are forwarded to a channel wher I'm announcing this periodically <\sh> hunger: they're caring when the users are blocked on ip range <LaschW> Seveas: PM means per E-Mail not per private chat? <Seveas> PM = private message <hunger> \sh: it is "only" IRC and only one network as well. <OculusAquilae> fucking spammers :-( <\sh> hunger: it's freenode..many opensource devs have dsl from telekom or their subcontractors...so the users will complain as well, and then t-online has to react <LaschW> OculusAquilae: I would say you never have been in contact to t-online abuse team. :-)) <\sh> actually...at our company...we're caring about and we're closing the account temporalily during investigation of spam or other activites not allowed in our contracts <LaschW> OculusAquilae: It's better called NOabuse-team or better ProAntiabuse-team. <hunger> \sh: All I am saying that the company is *extremly* unresponsive. <\sh> hunger: lemme ask for the contacts to t-online from my security it boss :) <Mitario> could someone update gconf2? it still depends on libglitz <hunger> \sh: It does not even care about people when they tell them that they are going to leave if they are ignored much longer. <Seveas> grmbl <Seveas> freenode is crap <\sh> hunger: u will always come back to the telecom in this or that way...that's the thing... <Seveas> it's the only network that i'm getting disconnects from <Treenaks> Seveas: try darkernet, it's even more crap ;) * LaschW thanks Seveas for fixing #ubuntu ban and leveas for supper * OculusAquilae too <\sh> me has supper right now..a nice dner <infinity> Mitario : Working on it... It's a weekend, expect people to be a bit slack. :) <Mitario> infinity, heh, np :) just discovered it was depending on libglitz when I was looking at rhythmbox :) <infinity> Mitario : No big deal. Everything that isn't horribly FTBFS will be rebuilt for cairo/glitz in the next day or two. <Mitario> allright great :) <Seveas> hmm, how many transitions were ther in the past months?! <infinity> Seveas : Lots. <Seveas> I certainly lost count <infinity> gcc-4.0, c++ ABI bump, libcairo1 -> libcairo2 -> libcairo2 without gliz, GL/GLU from xorg to mesa, aalib -> libaa, slang1 -> slang2.... Uhm. <infinity> A few. <\sh> cxx, xorg, cairo, slang (ongoing), unmetdeps (ongoing), gl/glu, gl/glu-mesa <\sh> too many <infinity> <shrug>... I don't mind so much. If we get all this sorted, we'll be in really good shape for a nearly transition-free devel/release cycle for breezy+1. <infinity> Which is high on my list of Really Good Things. <slomo> Seveas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions <--- that's the page i created a few minutes ago... because i also lost track ;) <jdub> infinity: *cough* <infinity> jdub : Swallow something? <jdub> infinity: 'sif it's going to be transition free :) <infinity> jdub : I did say "nearly". <jdub> (of course, we could just specify that as a goal, and JFDI( <\sh> infinity: well..regarding main, u r right, regaring universe...I think we will have a bumpy right when breezy is released...and for breezy+1 we have to polish everything <infinity> jdub : In comparision, it will SEEM transition-free. <jdub> haha <Seveas> slomo, that's not complete <infinity> \sh : I keep switching hats back and forth in an effort to try and help you guys keep universe buildable/installable. <Seveas> it misses the mono and X transitions at least ;( <Seveas> ;) <infinity> \sh : I wouldn't be too doom and gloom about it, I think we'll be in good shape in universe. <slomo> Seveas: maybe... so please add it :P <Seveas> I don't know their state.. <slomo> Seveas: and mono transition is long over... so not really necessary <slomo> Seveas: set it to unknown... i don't know the state for x transition either <Seveas> and gcc4 of course <\sh> infinity: for breezy+1 we need to "plan those transitions" much better for universe...I talked with ogra about it..and we're working on it :) <infinity> \sh : Building reverse-build-dep and reverse-dep trees/maps can go a long way to making things easier. <\sh> anyways...the week after next...I will hit again :) <infinity> \sh : If you can do a full transition (modulo FTBFS issues) in one well-ordered string of uploads, life is much easier. <mako> Alex: around <\sh> infinity: yepp but u know...it will be my first ubuntu release and the next will be much better :) <\sh> infinity: so for breezy I didn't know williamsmith@example.net...(work processes etc. in debian env.) but now..I learned, I'm trained...and lets rock on breezy+1 ,-) <infinity> \sh : Heh. Debian development in general is an interesting learning experience, and I can imagine that starting with Ubuntu (where our release cycle are short and furious) is even more interesting. <Seveas> "Ubuntu -- where the release cycle are short and furious" <Seveas> nice slogan <\sh> infinity: I mean, I worked
{'channel': 'ubuntu-devel', 'month': 9}