#ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-03 * Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log <ppires> hi <ppires> agoliveira: existe algum repositorio para o moblin-image-creator? <ppires> i'm sorry, i was asking if there is any moblin-image-create repo for feisty. <agoliveira> ppires: Est no Gutsy <agoliveira> and I went along and answered in Portuguese also :P <ppires> yes i've installed gutsy in my desktop on one vm machine. but now i'm on my laptop and would like to keep up with the things i was seeing yesterday <ppires> moblin.org has one <doko> agoliveira: would it be possible to fix some of the mobile dependencies so that they do not need packages from universe? <agoliveira> doko: Right now basicaly everything from mobile is on universe. <doko> agoliveira: please have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt <doko> for example the famous xulrunner dep <agoliveira> doko: Tollef told me about moving the packages to main but he didn't tell me he actually did something. <doko> agoliveira: are main inclusion reports already written? <agoliveira> doko: I didn't do anything like that. Actually, I just heard about this yesterday. If someone did it was Tollef. <agoliveira> and he didn't tell me anything, sorry. <ppires> jesus.. if it wasn't for my relatively fast internet connection this would take ages :-/ <agoliveira> rusty: Hi Rusty. Is Mauri near to you? <rusty> agoliveira, no, Mauri took the family camping today <agoliveira> rusty: No problem. Nothing urgent. BTW, did she say anything about that event here in Brazil? I think Sulamita was trying to convince her. <rusty> agoliveira, yea... i'm not going <agoliveira> :( <agoliveira> Well, we tried :) <rusty> it was a bit of a hard sell how a python conf was critical <rusty> as it is... things tend to get a bit wacky when too many of us our out traveling, and Bob and I have been pull away for a lot of things recently <agoliveira> Hmmm... there was a development. A friend of mine is very interested on using lpia in some projects he's working with the federal goverment and military and he will be here. I tought that would spice the things a bit. <agoliveira> Well, Sulamita probably told Mauri about this as well... <rusty> agoliveira, i don't think Sulamita included that in her argument <rusty> oh well... i had already booked a trip to mexico for the beggining of the month anyway <agoliveira> rusty, Strange. I told her that when she asked me to help get some of you in here. <agoliveira> rusty: Business? <agoliveira> if not I'll have the impression that I'm the only one who didn't take some time off in this project :-D <rusty> if by business you mean drinking beer on the beach, pretending to not notice the eye candy when my wife looks my way, then yes :-> <ppires> ahah <agoliveira> :'( <agoliveira> rusty: Well, before this year ends I want to spend at least a week here: http://www.salinas.com.br <agoliveira> actually, this is supposed to be the honey moon that we never had. <ppires> agoliveira: where are you from? which state? <agoliveira> I was born in So Paulo but moved to Santa Catarina about 12 years ago. <nixternal> hey everyone. I have a local guy who just took up an internship with Motorola and they are interested in having some involvement in the embedded initiative <nixternal> this guy would like to speak to someone who is leading the project if possible. I have an email I can forward to whoever that may be if it is OK <agoliveira> nixternal: Hi. Perhaps he can join us right here. I'm hardly a "leader" here but I work on it fulltime if he prefers to start a private contact. <nixternal> OK, I will see if he is available to get on IRC <jacob-pc> amitk_: are you there? <amitk_> jacob-pc: hi <jacob-pc> amitk_: how are you? <amitk_> jacob-pc: not bad... and yourself? <jacob-pc> amitk_: can you enable PIIX driver in ume kernel config? <jacob-pc> amitk_: i am fine. ready for the weekend <amitk_> jacob-pc: sure... will do it mon/tue. Should be in the next kernel <jacob-pc> amitk_: we need this CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PIIX to enable IDE DMA, otherwise it boots slow <amitk_> jacob-pc: i heard that from robr_ <amitk_> jacob-pc: mauri is planning to send me a crown beach soon. Were you able to get permission to send a debugger too? <jacob-pc> amitk_: thanks. i added piix.ko to the initramfs module list in image-creator, it will be ready for your change <jacob-pc> amitk_: i don't think it will be a problem, let me ask mauri. there is also a new linux based JTAG tool in alpha stage, let me also ask if i can send that to you for evaluation. <amitk_> jacob-pc: thanks. Gotta run now. It's almost midnight :) <amitk_> jacob-pc: have a good weekend <jacob-pc> good night <rusty> any Canonical guys listening that have anything to do with the server that is hosing the UME images? <rusty> the new build output seems to be coming and going as if you had a web server farm with inconsistent data on different machines <rusty> so one http request will see the new image, and then then next will not <rusty> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull/ <rusty> and attempt to grab something from the 20070803 directory <rusty> ok, I'm downloading the image now #ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-04 <bicchi> I was looking at the target models for the UM edition shown here http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded and was wondering which one gives the more features. <bicchi> I also like the OQO model 2, has anyone tried it with ubuntu? <ppires> hi #ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-06 <SCSI> HOLA <chaKKo_1521> http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?uid=1521 <mdz> agoliveira: good day <agoliveira> mdz: Good day, Matt. <mdz> agoliveira: thanks for getting the daily build sorted <mdz> I tried it out on the Q1 ultra today <agoliveira> My pleasure. <mdz> one can't get very far with it, though <agoliveira> Geez... :( <mdz> there's no way to launch applications, and while it provides instructions for installing the flash plugin, they rely on a terminal <mdz> and I see no way to launch a terminal <mdz> is it working better than that for you? <agoliveira> I should be able to look more closely in the device. Today Sulamita asked for some information so I guess my Q1 should be arriving soon. In the chroot it works better but I have to mnanually install the flash plugin too. <agoliveira> It is in my TODO to talk about those issues with Rusty today. <mdz> agoliveira: you are building the chroot locally, yes? <mdz> agoliveira: have you tried using the autobuilt image? <agoliveira> mdz: Yes, I am. <agoliveira> No. <agoliveira> But should be no differente but the kernel. But I can give it a sot, of course. <mdz> agoliveira: ok, I really need for you to use that as the basis for your testing, because that is what the rest of the world sees. if it works well in your chroot, but it doesn't work in the build, then it's not working yet <agoliveira> mdz: Understood. <mdz> it should be possible to get it working in an emulator. we've been waiting too long for the Q1 and are short on time <mdz> agoliveira: is there anything I can do to help you to get a device more quickly? <agoliveira> mdz: No problem, I'll try that. <mdz> I would be happy to buy you one if you could source it locally <agoliveira> mdz: I wish but as far as I know, this is internal to Intell and now to customs. <mdz> agoliveira: is it possible to order one online and have it shipped to Brazil from elsewhere? <agoliveira> mdz: I guess so but I also believe that would be almost the same with customs and all. <agoliveira> Believe me. Customs here a a real PITA. <mdz> if you fly to London, I will give you one to take back with you :-/ <agoliveira> Even small stuff like DVDs I buy from Amazon, for instance, sometimes stays there 2, 3 weeks. <agoliveira> mdz: I should have taken my chances last time... <agoliveira> Unfortunately, I tought that for a company like Intel should be easier to overcome this kind of problem. <agoliveira> mdz: BTW: I have a question. Did you have any success with thaty first batch of resumes Jo sent? <mdz> agoliveira: this is a public channel <agoliveira> rusty_: Hi Rusty. Can you give me an update on how the images are running on the Q1 device? Unfurtunately, I'm still wating for mine so I can't try myself. <rusty_> what kind of update? <agoliveira> I mean, are they running ok, is there any outstanding problem? <agoliveira> I'm talking about the images we are creating daily. <rusty_> as of Friday the answer was yes, and i need to run a clean test this morning to see if anything has popped up <rusty_> sorry <rusty_> just realized what you meant.... i gave up attempting to download the image last friday after it failed mid-way through on a couple of attempts <rusty_> let me try again with the latest image out of the oven <agoliveira> No problem. What image are you using exactly. <agoliveira> ? <rusty_> the full q1 <rusty_> what was that URL again? <agoliveira> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull/20070806/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull_install-usb.img <agoliveira> That one? <rusty_> thx <agoliveira> I'm asking because Matt have being finding some strange problems like, can't start any application and can't install the flash plugin as it relies on a terminal but he can't find a way to lauch one. <rusty_> do you know which fset the build is installing? <agoliveira> rusty_: Not from the top of my head, I have to check the script <agoliveira> PLATFORMS=( mccaslin menlow ) <agoliveira> TARGETS_mccaslin=( samsungq1ultracore samsungq1ultrafull ) <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull=( samsung-full-mobile-stack ) <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_samsungq1ultracore=( samsung-q1-ultra-config ) <agoliveira> TARGETS_menlow=( core full ) <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_core=( samsung-full-mobile-stack ) <agoliveira> FSETS_mccaslin_full=( samsung-q1-ultra-config ) <agoliveira> rusty_: That's what's on the script. <agoliveira> BRB -> 10 min. <rusty_> if we installed the samsung-full-mobile-stack-proprietary then the flash plug-in would be installed... but maybe that's an issue <agoliveira> rusty_: Yeah, I don't think that we can do that. What about not being able to open the terminal and install flash yourself? * agoliveira just discovers that vmware and gutsy as host are not a good combination :( <stgraber> agoliveira: vmnet issue ? <agoliveira> stgreber: yes - /tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/userif.c: In function VNetCopyDatagramToUser: <agoliveira> I'm checking out. <stgraber> agoliveira: http://npw.net/~phbaer/vmnet.tar I used this one an hour ago and it works fine <agoliveira> stgraber: I'll try, thanks <agoliveira> stgraber: Yep. It seems to do the trick. Thanks. <stgraber> np, it'd be really good if vmware could provide those patches themselves :) <rusty_> agoliveira, you should be able to open a terminal via the drop down menu in the upper left corner, but let me what what happens in this image.... it's still downloading <agoliveira> rusty_: It worked with me like this when I built the image locally. I'll also try the image here. <agoliveira> rusty_: Those images we're being creating are for USB boot right? <rusty_> agoliveira, yes, you have to dd it to the device <rusty_> BTW, still downloading my image <agoliveira> rusty_: Yes, I did that and just discovered that vmware can't boot from USB :( <rusty_> agoliveira, i'm running the UME image now <agoliveira> rusty_: In the Q1 itself? How's going? <rusty_> pretty crappy <agoliveira> Ouch... :( <rusty_> i'm not sure what's happening here... but it's pretty messed up <agoliveira> Like...? <rusty_> agoliveira, all kinds of things.... let me get a handle on this <agoliveira> rusty_: Sure <rusty_> agoliveira, ok, i see what's happening.... you guys are removing the apt configuration entry for moblin, and there are various packages that need new versions uploaded to gutsy <rusty_> agoliveira, so lots of little things all over the place <agoliveira> rusty_: Are we? <agoliveira> rusty_: Ok so let fix that. Are the apt configurations you're talking about into the fsets? <rusty_> agoliveira, yes... you can see this by noticing that the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/build.list is missing <rusty_> agoliveira, well... i bet that Tolleff is doing this on purpose <rusty_> so the proper way to fix this is to find what packages need newer versions uploaded <agoliveira> rusty_: Well, I can understand that but it's a nice way to get things broken... <rusty_> agoliveira, however you want to proceed... do you have the ability to adjust the image creation script? <rusty_> or... maybe this is in the moblin-image-creator that was pushed into gutsy <rusty_> i never tried using it <rusty_> agoliveira, i have to go <agoliveira> No, I don't. But I can ask someone <rusty_> i bet it's a change in the image-creator checked into gutsy <rusty_> ok, be back in a couple of hours <agoliveira> rusty_: I'll be leaving in 1 hour or so but email me and I'll see that asap. <agoliveira> seb128: Hi. You are just the guy I wanted to talk to :) <seb128> hey agoliveira <agoliveira> seb128: I wonder if you can help. Do you have access to whatever the script that creates the mobile images (run-moblin-image-creator) is? <seb128> better to ask cjwatson, I don't know where those scripts are and what they are doing <agoliveira> seb128: Sure. Thanks anyway. <seb128> no problem #ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-07 <bicchi> I am thinking of getting a Samsung q1 ultra. What works and does not working from gutsy? I really do not want to waste 1000.00 bucks and have to install windows on top of it. <bicchi> or perhaps someone can advise on the one that works the best with ubuntu. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Good morning! Had a good time riding? <Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes, it was great, thanks. <agoliveira> Cool. I would like to ask you if you have any idea what we can do to better wync our repository with Intel's code. We are having problems with the iamges generated not working well and, according to Rusty, this happens because our packages are outdated. <agoliveira> s/wync/sync <agoliveira> s/iamges/images - looks like I'm a bit dyslexic this morning :) <Mithrandir> in general, I try to upload them fairly often and I have asked Intel to tell me if there's anything in particular they want shoved in "right now". <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes I know but looks like we are still having problems in this area as the images generated are pretty broken for what we have seen. I was told by Matt to investigate this as he have being trying to use the images generated without much sucess. What do you think if we talk to the intel guys later and try to stablish some sort of "scheduled" syncs like, only sync in batches when the resulting image will not break badly o <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you broke off after "break badly" <agoliveira> ... or something like that? <Mithrandir> agoliveira_brb: to what degree have you gotten your hildonising patches accepted upstream? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I didn't do any of that kind. I just started the process of hildonizing. <guardian> whtat's the input method framework for ubuntu mobile ? hildon ? scim ? uim ? other ? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I was about to start with Claws but I was contacted by a Intel developer who has already started so I let him continue and I'm going for Pimlico now. <Mithrandir> pimlico is mostly hildonised already, though. You should really start by getting in touch with upstream first to avoid duplication of work. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I know about Pimlico's status. I'm talking about to create the appropriate compilation and packaging flags so we can have a ume package with our version of hildon as interface. <Mithrandir> sure, but make sure to push that upstream as well, since pimlico upstream happens to be the people maintaining it in Debian as well, and keeping the delta small is good. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure. I'm aware of that. <mdz> Mithrandir: mobile-player is installed, but doesn't run yet...looks like we need python-hildondesktop in gutsy? <Mithrandir> hm, does it crash for you? IIRC, it starts for me, but it's mostly just a framework at this point. <mdz> Mithrandir: ImportError: No module named hildon <Mithrandir> ok, then it's needed. :-) <mdz> Mithrandir: I see it in bzr; has it been uploaded yet? <Mithrandir> doesn't look like it. <mdz> the browser seems to work fine if started from the command line, but the button in the flash UI does nothing <amitk__> Mithrandir, agoliveira_lunch: Are there plans to still stick with UME flavour for i386? Or switch to lpia arch ASAP? <amitk__> robr_, CharliefJohnson, jacob-laptop: ^^^^^^ <Mithrandir> amitk__: unsure, mail the list? <jacob-laptop> amitk__: hi <amitk__> jacob-laptop: hi <jacob-laptop> amitk__: what is the difference in lpia and ume in those kernel configs? <amitk__> jacob-laptop: Currently lpia arch just copied some config file (don't know which). But the ume Kconfig will be copied to lpia once I get around to it <amitk__> jacob-laptop: real question is - Do we need to keep i386-based UME config around? <jacob-laptop> amitk__: yes, that is my question too <amitk__> jacob-laptop: could you ask rusty, rob, charlie and the rest if they see any need for it. I will post an email to the ML <jacob-laptop> amitk__: ok, i thought that was your choice of how to package and build them <amitk__> jacob-laptop: there could be other reasons. e.g. I am not sure if binaries created for lpia are 100% compatible with i386. So we might want to keep it for developers who do not have lpia-based HW <jacob-laptop> amitk__: so are you thinking about lpia specific gcc option that may be availble in the future? lpia does have smaller instruction set. <amitk__> jacob-laptop: yes <jacob-laptop> amitk__: so for lpia, are there any other configuration difference (in linux-source) beyond the kernel config file? <amitk__> I don't expect there to be any differences. I was going to just copy the ume config to lpia <jacob-laptop> amitk__: got it. switching topic to poulsbo 2d gfx driver, what do u mean by including whole tree? <jacob-laptop> amitk__: i thought it has to use the source tree in lum <amitk__> jacob-laptop: considering that none of the drivers except poulsbo are useful on lpia, I was just wondering if it was overkill <jacob-laptop> amitk__: you meant single out a lpia flavor of lum for poulsbo? i think it is worth doing, this is a new processor/chipset family <amitk__> jacob-laptop: the poulsbo DRM driver is definitely going into it's own separate flavour for LUM. I was only wondering if it would be possible to prune the non-poulsbo stuff from your git tree <jacob-laptop> amitk__: i don't know, i did not develop the driver. ultimately we have to test it on the HW to decide. * agoliveira was testing the UME images yesterday and forgot a USB key with a install image on it attached to his notebook. This morning almost had a heart attack when the strange prompt showed up... <robr> agoliveira: you're lucky it wasn't an install image created by image-creator and accidentally hit the ENTER key after it booterd ;-) <agoliveira> robr: It *was* an install image :) Luckely I figured that out quickly and turned it off. <robr> *d'oh!* * agoliveira just made a note to make a full backup later. * robr notes to himself that we need to make that install.sh script more intelligent <doko> # Use soft-float and thumb mode if it is enabled. <doko> ifneq (,$(findstring thumb,$(DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS))) <doko> CFLAGS += -mthumb <doko> endif <doko> is this a nokia invention? <doko> without garding the cpu ... <Mithrandir> doko: yes, it is. <Mithrandir> is it a problem? <doko> Mithrandir: no, just wondering <bicchi> I would like to get a Samsung Q1, any comments on what features will I be missing if i run ubuntu on it? <bfiller> does anyone know if the hildon-desktop that is installed with image-creator is build from trunk or ubutunu branch? <bfiller> I want to make mods but not sure where to pull from.. <rusty> bfiller, IIRC it was built off the ubuntu branch <bfiller> thanks, that's what I thought <bfiller> strange thing is when I built it from ubuntu branch and installed the deb packages in my chroot, the drop down menu at far left is all screwed up. <bfiller> and keyboard status bar plugin and another plugin show up <bfiller> these don't appear after image-creator install #ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-08 <ppires> hi <HappyCamp> Does anyone know if there is an easy way when building a debian package to have it ignore certain files when building the source package? For example a .git/ directory. <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: debuild -i -I.git is probably what you want. <sodarock_home> Mithrandir: Thanks for the tip on debuild. * sodarock_home is also Happycamp at work <Mithrandir> ah, happy to help. <guardian> good morning <guardian> what's the input method framework used by ubuntu-mobile please ? hildon-input-method? <Mithrandir> guardian: is hildon-input-method free software yet? I thought it was still closed? <guardian> maybe it's still closed <guardian> in fact one have to make the difference between the framework that can be opensourced and the plugins which may remain closed source <Mithrandir> sure. IIRC, the whole framework is mostly-closed, but in the process of opening up <Mithrandir> I could be wrong, though <guardian> in the meantime, what's the way to go ? <guardian> GtkImContext ? <Mithrandir> we're actually not using anything at the moment -- the user has to pop up the keyboard him/herself. <Mithrandir> that has to change soonish, though <Tsega> Hello people anyone out there? <Tsega> Hello/ <Mithrandir> yes, why? <Tsega> I just wanted to talk about ubuntu-mobile development <Mithrandir> talk and I or some of the others will try to answer <Tsega> Ok <mfrey> does anyone know if there are linux-restricted-modules built for the menlow kernel? If so how does one get them? <Tsega> I wanted to know what I need to know to start dishing out mobile apps <Mithrandir> mfrey: they should be there, yes. <Mithrandir> Tsega: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure should get you a proper desktop <Mithrandir> mfrey: make sure you install linux-ume and you should be good <Tsega> Thanks that was helpful <ppires> hi <Mithrandir> hi ppires <ppires> how are you Mithrandir? <Mithrandir> good thanks. Just at the tail of my day, so packing up here. <ppires> i'm on vacation, just woke up ^^ <patm> The current menlow fsets define two choices, one with the moblin kenel and one with the ubuntu kernel. What is the difference between these? <agoliveira> patm: IIRC, the ubuntu kernel is the standard i386 kernel and the moblin kernel has a few changes towards the mccaslin platform. <patm> do you mean menlow or mccaslin? Does it include Poulsbo support yet? <agoliveira> patm: Sorry, I'm not sure. <mfrey> Mithrandr: Is there a way to install the Marvell wifi drivers into the ume kernel? <asac> i get regular connection droppage when visiting http://www.moblin.org/repos/ <asac> anyone else sees this when hitting reload a few times? <ppires> i'm new around but i've seen quite some complaints about it. <ppires> ssh connections being dropped, and such <ppires> isn't that right Mithrandir ? <kupesoft> So I want to get a Q1 Ultra <kupesoft> How well will it run Fiesty until the first release? <ppires> imho things are not directly related <ppires> ubuntu-mobile is not directly aimed at a specific range of devices. instead it's intended to become a distro w/ a framework for mobile devices (both OS and development framework) <ppires> and as a framework, it depends on moblin (http://moblin.org) <ppires> which itself has roots in the maemo project * Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log #ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-09 <lenkawell> mdz, can you talk at 1000 EDT? <mdz> lenkawell: yes <mdz> lenkawell: I have two hours of back-to-back meetings prior to that, but if they don't run over, I should be fine <lenkawell> mdz, sounds good, thanks <Mithrandir> hiya Mauri, Ken <agoliveira> Hi all. <amitk> hi <kwwii> hi * agoliveira is starving. Those back-to-back meetings about lunch time here are killing me :) <rusty> hi * rusty wonders if agoliveira started working for Intel <Mithrandir> hiya rusty; it's been a while. <rusty> good vacation? * agoliveira is still wating for Mauri's call :-D <mawhalen> Hi Adilson <mawhalen> Any Samsung yet? <agoliveira> mawhalen: Hi. I wish :( <Mithrandir> rusty: yes, absolutely. Spent a couple of days riding around in the mountains. <mawhalen> I sent information to somebody in Brazil that made me think it was on it's way...I'll check again. <mawhalen> crazy <agoliveira> mawhalen: 2 days ago I received an email from Sulamita stating that it was sent but if they sent on that day should be here yesterday already. * rusty imagines agoliveira's samsung being paddled up some remote section of an Amazon tributary <kwwii> I won't even ask about mine then <Mithrandir> kwwii: not shipped yet. <Mithrandir> ok, shall we start? Charlie is on vacation and not here this week. <agoliveira> mawhalen: I already asked Sulamita for the tracking number but she didn't answer yet. If you could find this for me I can track it down. <mawhalen> Todd - you on? <Todd> ya, I'm here <rusty> Bob is still on vacation <agoliveira> rusty: I don't know why you north-americans have this fixation with the Amazon :) <jacob-laptop> hi everyone <mawhalen> Mithrandir: Todd Brandt is now joining, he is working on the Control Panel and applets <Mithrandir> mawhalen: ah, good. <Mithrandir> Todd: welcome. <Todd> Hello :) <rusty> well, looks who's here? <Mithrandir> I've just recently come back from vacation, so I failed to post an agenda to the list. I propose we do the usual; status updates and any discussion items. <Mithrandir> anybody have any discussion items already? <mawhalen> Is Rob on? <rusty> rob_, you listening? <mawhalen> Mithrandir: I'd like Rob to give an update on what we are doing with SDIO <Todd> I have one: I've selected a starting source base for he control panel applets using the gnome-control-center code, I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions on that <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Nothing new from my side. <mawhalen> Mithrandir: I'd also like to talk about Email <Mithrandir> mawhalen: sdio goes with the kernel update? <mawhalen> Mithrandir: what do you mean by kernel update? For 7.10 or 7.10.1? <Mithrandir> no, the status update. :-) <Mithrandir> so it doesn't need a separate agenda item <mawhalen> Mithrandir: oh - yes. <Mithrandir> let's go through the specs then. I don't have much in the way of updates from me, because of said vacation. Adilson, please fill in when you have something. :-) <Mithrandir> mobile-app-framework: I'm pondering just marking this as "done", since hildon's there, and works. <agoliveira> Sure. <Mithrandir> so unless anybody has any questions, we'll move on to browser. <Mithrandir> bspencer,asac : do you have an update on the browser status? <asac> yeah :) <asac> good that its at the beginning ... because i am about to leave ;) <asac> we uploaded a midbrowser update that ships new branding iirc <asac> now we discuss how to best hildonize it ... <asac> i would have a question about that <asac> how does hildon theme its application/program menu? can we theme normal GtkMenu in the same way? <Mithrandir> in general, I think you want to use hildon menus, and they'll get the right theme automatically? <bspencer> all hildon apps use the same theme for the menu <bspencer> which is system wide -- is that your question? <rob_> hi all <asac> i know that normal GtkMenus are not used in other apps, but it would ease hildonizing mozilla a lot if we could just apply the same theme on GtkMenus <mfrey> has anyone looked at the just release maemo browser? <mfrey> based on mozilla <bspencer> mfrey -- hold that thought... <bspencer> asac: but GtkMenu has the menu across the top <agoliveira> mfrey: I did test it and works very well. <asac> bspencer: no thats not the point :) ... its just about the theme of the pop-up <bspencer> and we have to use a hildon menu to put the menu in the drop-down list <bspencer> ah <asac> the idea is to introduce libmozhildon which plainly listens for the X events hildon listens to and pops-up xul popups instead <asac> from what i saw in libhildon code it should be not too hard <asac> to mimic that behaviour <bspencer> ok. worth taking a look <asac> however ... if normal GtkMenus would be rendered in the same way as the hildon drop-down it would help a lot <bspencer> asac: I chatted with Nokia guys about something similar, which is to change Gtk to behave as Hildon so apps don't have to port <asac> bspencer: i think its the most efficient way to go ... but we can talk about that outside this meeting <bspencer> asac: yeah, I like the idea. Let's chat offline <asac> bspencer: well it doesn't help for us ... mozilla doesn't use GtkMenu et al <asac> bspencer: and we would get full xul'ish behaviour automatically <bfiller> what is the diff between midbrowser on launchpad and Mobile Internet Browser on mobiln? <asac> bfiller: the link is still wrong on moblin <cwong1> asac: I fixed that yesterday <asac> bfiller: the right git repository is a bit in advance <asac> cwong1: ah ok ... thanks <bfiller> so it's the same code? <asac> cwong1: we have now our own xul window for application in git ... which we don't have in latest release. <asac> bfiller: it has progressed, but yes ... we release from there <bspencer> so source is moblin --> launchpad --> ubuntu-mobile <bspencer> is that right? <asac> moblin has pristine upstream repository -> launchpad adds debian/ -> ubuntu-mobile has ubuntu packages <bspencer> right. <bspencer> can we talk a little about ETA for some features... or is it too soon? <asac> welll toolbar on bottom is already in git <asac> we can actually strip down ui now as we need <asac> for now we should just assume that the top level menu is the hildon menu <bspencer> excellent. <bspencer> right. Fine for starters. <cwong1> hildonize it is the next big item to do <asac> it will end up to be renamed to <hildonmenu> ... and adapted to X events by libmozhildon ... if all works out well ;) <asac> at least that is my vision <asac> adaption can be done through normal xbl <asac> e.g. introduce the hildonmenu tag which represents an invisible menu that pops-up if it gets some event <bspencer> ok. <bspencer> anything else for midbrowser? <agoliveira> cwong1: One factor that I took in consideration when I selected the applications was the capability to hildonize so we should have no big problems with that. At least I hope so :) <bspencer> mfrey asked: has anyone looked at the just release maemo browser? <asac> bspencer: well ... it would be nice if someone could look if and how its possible to theme GtkMenu Popups in the same way as hildon menu <bspencer> cwong1 did a little. and rusty too <bspencer> asac: ok. cwong1 and I will chat about that today <asac> bspencer: thanks <cwong1> ok <bspencer> about maemo browser -- it is a GtkMozEmbed-based browser. <bspencer> I think it is a viable alternative to our work, with different goals <bspencer> I think we still need a full xul-based solution, which is what we are creating <bspencer> but we can also port the maemo browser too. <bspencer> in time... <bspencer> mfrey: ok? <mfrey> I agree that we need a full XUL based browser <mfrey> but I have not looked at the source <mfrey> for the maemo one yet <rusty> has anyone been able to build the maemo browser? When i looked at it the source was pretty confusing <mfrey> but I do like they UI concepts <agoliveira> rusty: I tried for like 30 min and gave up. <rusty> the project is really a bunch of projects, with undocumented dependencies <mfrey> Where is the source -- I can have a look <bspencer> obfuscation is their talent :-\ <agoliveira> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/ <mfrey> thanks <rusty> i'm not sure the obfustication was on purpose <rusty> might just be they way they developer thinks about the problem <rusty> if he had a README then it would make life a lot easier <asac> mfrey: what ui concepts do you refer to? * asac looking at http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/maemo-org.png <mfrey> I guess I just mean the integrated hildonized toolbar. <rusty> When i used the browser while at GUADEC, it provided some of the same iPhone like features where you could zoom in on a page... but not as well done as the iPhone <asac> ok ... yes so its not their UI concept <mfrey> It also seems that the code is based on gecko 1.9 that supports zooming (which I think is important) <asac> well ... we won't be able to use 1.9 in stable releases in the near future i guess <bspencer> For the sake of time, I recommend we move forward... <agoliveira> mfrey: You're right. * agoliveira agrees <asac> mfrey: maybe thats the reason it fails to build? <asac> ok <asac> i have to go * asac waves <Mithrandir> see you, asac. <Mithrandir> mobile-graphics; is there anybody around who can give an update? <rusty> we could ask about the state of integrating what has already been handed over? <agoliveira> bye asac <Mithrandir> bryce's not here, but I could summarise it. <Mithrandir> he's packaged up the bits we've been given, I don't think they're uploaded yet. <Mithrandir> I'm not sure what's holding that up. <Mithrandir> he's also started on the libdrm merge, merging in the bits from your code into our package. <Mithrandir> and he's going to your campus this week (iirc) to work on getting everything working. <bspencer> on a related note...sorry for being out of touch, but did we resolve the Keith-Packard-patch to the xserver, and is that finished? <Mithrandir> bspencer: yes, that's fixed. <rusty> Mithrandir, i have another agenda item that i just remembered that i would like to add to the queue.... its about the state of all the various packages that make up a *-full-mobile-stack <rob_> Mithrandir, bryce will be here today, this afternoon <Mithrandir> ok, coolie <rob_> what about the kernel module needed for the 2-d driver? <Mithrandir> it should be in, I thought. <Mithrandir> amitk: can you confirm that? <amitk> Mithrandir: it should go in tomorrow <Mithrandir> ok, good <rob_> cool <Mithrandir> any more questions for -graphics, or move on? <agoliveira> A warning: I just received a call from the phone company that they may have to disconnect me for about 1 hour for repairs (a pole in the corner was hit by a truck this mornig) so don't worry if I just become irresponsive all the sudden. <rob_> and bryce will be picking up a crown beach system today too <Mithrandir> oh, great. <Mithrandir> next item, image creation. <Mithrandir> we've had some trouble with the image creator, again; it's a bit on the brittle side. <rusty> Mithrandir, a lot of problems are the result of not having up-to-date packages in gutsy (from moblin) <rusty> problems with the UME build, that is <Mithrandir> we should add that to the list of stuff to discuss -- how to avoid that happening. <rusty> in other words, if you are using image-creator off moblin, then there is an apt configuration to pull from the moblin apt repository (in addition to gutsy) <rusty> if you remove that configuration then you see the same thing that the automated UME build is kicking out <rusty> so we just need to figure out what all packages need updated in gutsy <rusty> there has been a log of work <agoliveira> I don't see many alternatives but automate the sync or keep using moblin repos. <Mithrandir> rusty: our build host is firewalled and can't access moblin.org <Mithrandir> that's not going to change, so "using moblin repos" is not an alternative. <rusty> that's cool, and it helps us find these kind of errors <agoliveira> Hmmm... didnt' know that <rusty> but this explains why using the UME images have all kinds of problems that we fixed already <Mithrandir> it'd probably help if you prodded me when you have stuff you want uploaded. <rusty> is there some way to do a diff between apt repositories... to at least see what packages are newer on moblin? <rusty> Mithrandir, the deal is that our build is automatically kicked off when ever anyone commits a change into the code <Mithrandir> you can use apt-cache policy on the relevant packages, and see where it tries to pull from <agoliveira> rusty: COuldn't you also create and provide the images? <Mithrandir> an improvement I coded in last night is the creator now makes .manifest files besides the image, listing what's in it. <Mithrandir> so that should make Charlie happier and make it easier to see what's in an image. <Mithrandir> I think we should move on. <bspencer> Mithrandir: I like that feature <Mithrandir> -kernel; what's going on there? <bspencer> Mithrandir: good for testing too. <amitk> 2D driver should go in tomorrow <amitk> I am testing the build right now <amitk> rob_: should I integrate the SDIO patches, or are we getting updates? <amitk> storage driver was switched to piix instead of ata to get DMA performance improvements on jacob-laptop's request <rob_> amitk, you should integrate them, but we need to talk about a longer term strategy about what to do about sdio <rob_> amitk, we've got libata support now working and it's checked in our kernel on moblin.org -- we're in the process of reviewing it <amitk> rob_: great <amitk> I should be receiving the updated/cleaned-up patch for thermal optimisations tomorrow <amitk> once I get the go-ahead I will merge that as well <amitk> So after the 2D DRM, I have two things on my list - SDIO and thermal <amitk> Anything else that is needed from the kernel? <rob_> amik: as you know, all work on our current MSS sdio patch has stopped and we're working w/ Pierre's SDIO stack...we think we can have that working pretty well on Menlow by end of September...but is that too late for inclusion? <amitk> rob_: Sept might be very late yes. Mithrandir can comment our Ubuntu policy in these cases <rob_> amitk, i keep hearing that adding a new feature patch like that will be difficult past the august feature freeze <rob_> amitk, MSS and Pierre's code could reside in the same kernel -- we could put it in before the feature freeze and then provide bug fix over the course of development <rob_> it's a config option would enable one or the other <amitk> rob_: I will have to talk to the kernel team. I will get back to you on this. <rob_> amitk, ok <Mithrandir> ok, anything more about kernel? <rob_> Mithrandir, i've got nothing more <Mithrandir> ok; move on to UI. <Mithrandir> bspencer_: do you have an update on that? <bspencer_> Mithrandir I too have been out for 2wk vacation and just back this morning. <Mithrandir> ok, so it's probably better if you send that update to the list, then? <bspencer_> We have two things going: working with ken wimer to create UI, and working to get a simple non-flash UI up soon <bspencer_> non-flash UI that behaves similar to current flash UI. Very simple. <Mithrandir> interesting; what are you basing that on? <bspencer_> Ken's will take a bit of work and some changes too. <bspencer_> the simple UI is hopefully do-able in a shorter time frame. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: we are currently looking at Clutter <Mithrandir> ok <Mithrandir> you're in touch with kwwii about the theme, I hope? <bspencer_> yes, thanks. kwwii also is working on a real theme <bspencer_> he knows much more about this than I <kwwii> we need to get the format in line before we can start testing the first stuff <bspencer_> but we discussed after our meeting a couple of weeks ago the steps to create. <bspencer_> kwwii: hello! <kwwii> ie. we need to be able to start from one large pic in the build process or such <kwwii> hi bspencer_ <Mithrandir> the theme builder has that support, as you know <agoliveira> bspencer_: The idea is to keep the aspect, functionality, etc or do something else? <kwwii> I started playing with the SVG - I guess we'll have to take note as we go on what needs to be changed <kwwii> Mithrandir: everythin I have seen until now was cut up pics...do you have a link to that? <agoliveira> kwwii: link to the theme tools? <bspencer_> agoliveira: don't understand your question <Mithrandir> apt-get source hildon-theme-plankton and look at template/template.png <kwwii> agoliveira: yes, if that is what I need to go from the theme-in-one-pic to a usable version <mdz> (hi, guys, I'm finished with the server meeting so dropping in late) <kwwii> Mithrandir: right, but that does not show how the cutter-upper works and how to tweak it <kwwii> sorry for the technical terms :p <sabotage> http://thememaker.garage.maemo.org/ <Mithrandir> kwwii: point. sabotage's link might help with that <agoliveira> bspencer_: I meant if it the nun-flash UI would be the same (aspect, functionality, etc) as the flash version or it would change the way it works <sabotage> I've used it to build my own themes for my N770 in the past <kwwii> yeah, if we wanted to simply change the look of the Nokia stuff it would be enough <kwwii> but out stuff is different by design <bspencer_> agoliveira: same to start, then improve gradually <kwwii> s/out/our <sabotage> but it needs to be modified to match the planned layout for UME <kwwii> sabotage: that would be killer :-) <sabotage> which means we have to finalize and document our layout ;) <sabotage> exact sizes/dimensions etc... and that then only works for one formfactor, so then you need options or alterantives for other aspect ratios <Mithrandir> ok, so this needs some serious attention. <kwwii> sabotage: right, I've started to mess with things, but it will take some time <agoliveira> kwwii: There's the hildon-theme-tools package that does this for the original maemo tools. <agoliveira> kwwii: I meant maemo themes <Mithrandir> ok, let's move on <kwwii> agoliveira: cool, I'll check that out, once I find it in launchpad :-) <sabotage> agoliviera, correct, but again they make assumptions on the target screen size <Mithrandir> skipping window manager <Mithrandir> amitk: any update on the power thermal optimisations? <kwwii> it is clear that the tools as-is are not going to be enough <agoliveira> Sure <Mithrandir> seems like amitk isn't around right now, so moving on. <kwwii> me cooks dinner for the family...bbl <Mithrandir> skipping USB client, since Charlie's not here; we're then at the utilities. <Mithrandir> aka the control panel bits. <bspencer_> is Todd here? <Todd> yea <Todd> Basically I have a list of starting source bases that I want your opinion on <Todd> lemme paste 9 lines <Todd> Power Management Power Policy Management (Intel) <Todd> Connection Management gnome-control-center:Network Proxy, gnome-system-tools:Network <Todd> Touchscreen calibration Possibly the touchscreen library (tslib) from DirectFB? <Todd> Screen brightness Possibly the backlight code from gnome-power-manager? <Todd> User theming customization gnome-control-center:Theme/Theme Installer <Todd> Font size / screen size gnome-control-center:(Font, Screen Resolution) <Todd> Hardware button config gnome-control-center:Keyboard Shortcuts <Todd> Volume Controls gnome-control-center:Sound <Todd> System Information gnome-system-tools:System Monitor <Todd> These are the targetted areas of control panel functionality and the source bases I think best to start from <Todd> do they look ok? <Mithrandir> the connection management bits; we've talked about network-manager for that <lenkawell> are you planning to modify the UI for these at all? <rusty> Todd, for the touchscreen calibration, there is an existing calibration application (that sucks) from the x driver <mdz> Mithrandir: are we set up to do syncs from moblin? or doing separate source uploads? <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm doing source uploads. <Todd> lenkawell: yes, for each one, but we'll use the existing source as a base for how it should look and go from there <mdz> Mithrandir: should we think about having a weekly(ish?) ritual of pulling in the latest updates from moblin? that might be more efficient than coming to you for each component update <Todd> mithrandir: for connection management, what has been decided? Have you already discussed reusing the gnome network manager code? <mdz> Mithrandir: (sorry, I've read scrollback and am jumping around a bit) <lenkawell> Todd, do you have a schedule for when you think you'll get this in? <Mithrandir> Todd: network-manager is divided into a backend and frontend, and it already works-ish if you just install it on a system today. <Mithrandir> Todd: it seems to me much better to fix any problems there rather than build something on the not-very-good bits of gnome-control-center's network bits. <Todd> lenkawell: not yet, I'm going to port the gnome-control-center's netowrk proxy config code first to see how much work is needed to get this stuff into Hildon, then I'll have a better idea of the overall schedule <Mithrandir> mdz: we could do that. <Mithrandir> Todd: the proxy code is very simple; it just sets a couple of gconf keys. <mdz> Mithrandir: bspencer and I talked at OSCON about doing something similar with hildon updates <mdz> I don't know whether they do milestone releases, but in any case, we should track it in some fashion <Todd> Mithrandir: yea, that's why I'm porting it first, to see how long the simplest possible app takes to port (I'm actually new to the application side, I'm a kernel guy, forgive me if I sound a nit naive) <Mithrandir> we have patches for hildon, though. <Mithrandir> Todd: ah, ok. Sounds fine, then. <bspencer_> Todd: there's a thread discussing the network manager stuff on mailing list. We can chat about it offline. <agoliveira> mdz: IFAIK, they only do milestones for the project as a whole and they had only 3 I think so far. <Todd> bspencer: soudns great :) <Mithrandir> when do you expect we can see code drops? <bspencer> Todd: about control panel, the list is a great start. Thanks for the investigation. <bspencer> Mithrandir: are you asking about control panel or other? <Mithrandir> bspencer: the control panel bits. * bspencer looks at Todd <Todd> Mithrandir: the biggest issue we have right now is a bug in the hildon-control-panel code that causes it to crash when loading applets in the moblin environment <Mithrandir> do we have a workaround or fix for it, or not yet? <bspencer> Todd: I'll push again on the guys at nokia to help us resolve it this week. <Todd> Mithrandir: the bug is in the Nokia code, so we need to sync with them to find a fix. I can't even run the hildon-control-panel code we have in Maemo 3.2 scratchbox because it's too new, scratchbox seems to only be able to run 2.2.x hildon-control-panel code <ian_brasil> i will make a request about hildon also <bspencer> Todd: it is another exapmle of finding the right code -- the hildon svn repo is not always organized well <Todd> our source base is from their "refactoring" branch, which is so new it's unversioned :P <Mithrandir> Todd: ok. Tell me if there's something I can usefully help with. <rusty> Mithrandir, but in the mean time the control panel applets can be developed using the older control panel in scratchpad <Todd> bspencer: yea that was a big problem <rusty> s/scratchpad/scratchbox/ <Todd> right, we can use scratchbox and Maemo 3.2 to develop these control panel apps for hildon-control-panel 2.2.10, but I wouldn't feel right making source drops to you guys without having actually tested them on the moblin platform <Mithrandir> ok <Todd> this is the conundrum <Mithrandir> so we need to get that bug fixed or worked around. <Todd> yup <Mithrandir> agoliveira: any chance you could help with that? You've looked at quite a bit of hildon code already. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Not as much as you may think but I'll be glad to give it a shot :) <bspencer> I think it is a small issue that nokia probably already has a fix for given they likely have a working control panel now. <Mithrandir> ok, thanks. <Mithrandir> ok, so we could try just pulling in their upstream changes first. <bspencer> we'll get it done for next week. <Todd> bspencer: that would be great *crossing my fingers* <Mithrandir> coolie <Mithrandir> move on, then <Mithrandir> media player <Mithrandir> how's it going in that camp? <bspencer> I must defer to rusty for any updates <bspencer> last I know is I sent new graphics to team to integrate into UI <rusty> the media player is progressing, with a lot of work going into landing the music management bits <rusty> so you don't have the file-picker as your UI for playing media <rusty> we are also getting ready so submit some patches to the helixcommunity so that the helix-dbus-server can be used with the media player <Mithrandir> oh, goodie <lenkawell> rusty: is there a "functional spec" for the player? I know there's a UI spec, but it doesn't say much about the goals, capabilities, etc. <bspencer> lenkawell: that could be created. Not a bad idea. <rusty> lenkawell, yes there is a functional spec... but i'm not sure if it's in an easy to find location on moblin <lenkawell> rusty: is the player going to support both helix and gstreamer simultaneously? <rusty> we just need to upload it <rusty> lenkawell, yes <rusty> the media infrastructure is pulled out of the player via a dbus service <Mithrandir> ok, move on? Seems like the media player is coming along well <rusty> so as long as you have a service that implements the right dbus interface than it can be used with the player <rusty> sure <lenkawell> rusty, ok, thanks <Mithrandir> the build infrastructure is working, but falling over too often for my liking due to image-creator's brittleness.
{'channel': 'ubuntu-mobile', 'month': 8}