#ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-01 <jalcine> Which sound server should I develop with if I'm targeting Ubuntu? <jalcine> Alsa or Pulse? <jalcine> Or rather, should I let GStreamer handle that? <jo-erlend> jalcine, letting GStreamer handle it, sounds correct to me. <jo-erlend> otherwise, I'd go with PulseAudio. <aquarius> mterry, ping <mterry> aquarius, heyo. in a meeting now <aquarius> mterry, no rush. Shall list the question and you can answer or not at your leisure ;) <aquarius> mterry, quickly has tests now (yay!). I've been fixing up the ubuntu-flash-game template (it needs to use gtk2, tragically, because that's what flash is linked against). I'd like to write a test that confirms that flash loads correctly (so that the test will break if someone modifies the code to use gi.repository without testing that that works, for example), but that would make the test suite depend on flas <aquarius> hplayer. Is that a no-no? Do you have any suggestions for what I might do in that situation? <mterry> aquarius, heyo <mterry> aquarius, yeah, I realized that flash-game template i think is broken on 12.04? <mterry> Because it uses pygi but doesn't specifically request GTK 2 <mterry> aquarius, having the test suite depend on flash is OK I think... it'd mean developers of quickly itself need to install it and added as a build-dependency <mterry> is flash still in univerese? <mterry> or just partner <mterry> hrm, multiverse <mterry> aquarius, nope, it might be a problem after all <mterry> aquarius, it can be added as a test that doesn't get run automatically. we don't have easy support for that right now I think <mterry> aquarius, and before release, I can just run it manually * mterry waits <aquarius> mterry, hey, sorry, was getting tea :) <aquarius> mterry, so, in order <aquarius> 1. is it possible to use pygi and request gtk2? <aquarius> I've just changed it to use the old static bindings <mterry> aquarius, yes, let me rediscover syntax <aquarius> but obviously it'd be better to still use pygi :) <aquarius> 2. I am fine with creating the test however you'd like me to <aquarius> my thought was this: have a test which creates an <aquarius> creates a flash-game app, wrapping a tiny swf <aquarius> and have that swf just return a value to javascript <aquarius> and have the javascript console.log its success <aquarius> so that "running the test" would just check for that success log... so it'd be entirely non-interactive <aquarius> except that the test would obviously require all the bits to work, so you'd need flash, you'd need X in order to create the webkit window, and so on <aquarius> and these things are not conducive to automatically-run tests on some headless QA server somewhere, hence me asking about it ;) <mterry> aquarius, before importing Gtk, call gi.require_version("Gtk", "2.0") <mterry> aquarius, sure, I'd love to see the test, but ideally you'd add it *as well as* a way to run any manual tests in the tree too, ala the current automatic test framework, if that makes sense * mterry looks at aquarius <aquarius> it does make sense <mterry> that's a lot of work just to add one test <aquarius> I don't actually understand the current framework (it's all bash!) <aquarius> but I can probably work it out <mterry> aquarius, the current framework is magic <aquarius> indeed it is <aquarius> :) <aquarius> undocumented magic, to boot :P <aquarius> which is the best kind :) <mterry> aquarius, if it's looking like a bundle of work, just add a manual test that doesn't get run by the automatic suite and I can remember to run it before release <mterry> aquarius, it's self documenting! * aquarius gives mterry a fishy look <aquarius> if I can understand the test framework well enough to add a generic "run manual tests" thing, I shall do so <aquarius> hrm <aquarius> import gi <aquarius> gi.require_version("Gtk", "2.0") <aquarius> from gi.repository import WebKit, Gtk, Gio <aquarius> gi.RepositoryError: Requiring namespace 'Gtk' version '2.0', but '3.0' is already loaded <aquarius> ah, maybe I need to do gtk first. <aquarius> ah, again <aquarius> mterry, how do I find out which version of webkit corresponds with gi's Gtk 2.0? <aquarius> although I fear there will be no success here... <mterry> aquarius, I believe it's 1.0 <mterry> aquarius, there are two of them, 1.0 and 3.0 <aquarius> ValueError: Namespace WebKit not available for version 1.0 <mterry> aquarius, install gir1.2-webkit-1.0 <aquarius> aah <mterry> aquarius, which will need to be added to the dependency list of the quickly package <aquarius> that'll cheer people up. <mterry> aquarius, this should be SRU'd too <aquarius> yay! that fixes it. * mterry thinks it is criminal that gi.repository does not require a version -- users will have all sorts of broken packages as soon as Gtk-4.0 comes out <aquarius> mterry, finger in the air guess: how long would you expect the test suite to take to run? <mterry> aquarius, forever <mterry> aquarius, it is slower than you think <aquarius> and do I run it with tests/run.sh ? <mterry> yup <aquarius> ah, it's supposed to take ages, got it <mterry> over 10 minutes <aquarius> I ran it yesterday and aborted it 'cos I thought it was broken :P <aquarius> christ on a hula hoop, the test suite runs a shell script and then parses that very same shell script for comments to get the expected output? <aquarius> what evil impulse caused you to write this rather than just using nosetests or something? :) <aquarius> actually, no, I lie, it creates a shell script on the fly which runs a shell script and then parses the script for comments to get the expected output <aquarius> mterry, this is weird magic :) <aquarius> mterry, ping <aquarius> oh, darn, he's gone <ajmitch> aquarius: I think you scared him off with your 'weird magic' comments <aquarius> I fear so <aquarius> have dropped him an email <aquarius> mterry, re :) <aquarius> mterry, sorry if I was offensive about the quickly test suite :) <mterry> aquarius, no! zstrickland@example.net. It's dog-slow and terrible <mterry> You were arguably not offensive enough <aquarius> I don't mind it being dog slow, I just mind it being weird enough that I don't understand it enough to fiddle with it ;) <aquarius> see email for complaint number 1: it hangs forever if you haven't authed launchpadlib, and I don't know how to check in the test suite whether that's done and fail the test if it isn't ;) <mterry> email? i don't have my email client open... why is that... <mterry> That was a couple hours of undistracted bliss <aquarius> I assume it's not open so that you can get some work done <aquarius> I noticed that this was the case and decided to put a stop to that by bothering you about test suites :P <mterry> aquarius, if you're having troubles with existing suite, don't stress it. just add a new test somewhere that tests what you want. It doesn't even have to be same format as rest of tests right now <mterry> aquarius, test suite is known to be a little crazy <aquarius> oh, OK. I was trying to be a good boy and integrate :-) <mterry> Despite being blase about it, I would rather have a nice robust test suite <mterry> But eh <mterry> aquarius, I appreciate it! But it's not worth consuming your life to make the suite sensible <aquarius> on the launchpadlib thing... I don't believe there's any sensible way to conditionally skip a test right now, correct? <mterry> aquarius, not now <aquarius> cool, OK <mterry> aquarius, move it out of the way? <aquarius> that's my plan, so I can run the test suite; just checking there's not a smarter way :) <aquarius> mterry, ping; I fear I need bash instruction. What does &> do? <mterry> aquarius, you mean >&? <aquarius> nope <mterry> aquarius, OK, then it is two statements: one is the & which backgrounds the process and one is >, a redirection of standard out <aquarius> I thought that a line in a sourced bash script "somecmd &> output.log" was the same as "somecmd & > output.log", that is, it'd run somecmd in the background and redirect the output <mterry> aquarius, yeah. it's not? <aquarius> but then I do not understand why source blocks until the command finishes running. * mterry needs bash instruction too <aquarius> line 75 of one-test.sh in quickly/test :) <mterry> aquarius, oh, that's likely because the test suite is *insane*! * mterry looks <mterry> We do some weird things with backgrounding <aquarius> if I source a script with content "sleep 5 &" then the source command finishes immediately (i.e., it's not blocking waiting for the sleep) <aquarius> if I source a script with content "sleep 5 &> output.log" then the source blocks and doesn't finish for 5 seconds <aquarius> this is contrary to what I think ought to happen, so clearly I misunderstand somehow ;) <mterry> aquarius, oh oh oh, this might be shorthand for redirecting both stdout and stderr <aquarius> so "&>" and "& >" are totally different things>? <aquarius> bloody bash * mterry recalls that <aquarius> "&>" is obviously completely ungoogleable ;-) <mterry> aquarius, yeah think so. let me test <mterry> yup <mterry> aquarius, sorry, forgot about that oddity. :) I had assumed bash was sane for a second too <aquarius> cool <aquarius> thanks :) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-02 <aquarius> balls. <aquarius> mterry, ping <aquarius> I did https://code.launchpad.net/~sil/quickly/flash-game-gtk2/+merge/104310 <aquarius> but I think I branched the ubuntu package and then proposed against quickly trunk <aquarius> because I am moronic. <aquarius> what should I have done? <mterry> aquarius, branched trunk and proposed against trunk is best <aquarius> k <mterry> aquarius, but having done that, just get the diff you had and apply it to a new trunk checkout <aquarius> ya, that's exactly what I'm gonna do :) <mterry> :) <aquarius> mterry, https://code.launchpad.net/~sil/quickly/flash-game-needs-gtk2/+merge/104312 is better, then. :) <aquarius> sorry about the no tests. <mterry> aquarius, guh, I dread the day glib bumps to 3.0 <mterry> aquarius, no worries <aquarius> feel free to bin it on account of no tests if it's important, and I can try and put together a custom SWF... but that won't happen until after uds at the earliest :) <aquarius> Build-Depends: everything-that-adobe-sells <mterry> aquarius, no, it makes the situation no worse, I'm fine with it <aquarius> ok, cheers, pal. later :) <dholbach> good morning <jo-erlend> morning dholbach :) <dholbach> hi jo-erlend <dholbach> did you figure out your vala problem in the end? <dpm> good morning all <jo-erlend> dholbach, turns out, WebKit isn't supported yet. <dholbach> ah ok <jo-erlend> more precisely, it doesn't have a vapi yet. <jo-erlend> and I don't need it yet, so.. I'll look into it when I do though. I can't imagine it would be too much hassle. <pavolzetor> hi, could you help with some workaround for this? <pavolzetor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/floaty/+bug/987565 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 987565 in floaty "Widget is not always refreshed after window resizing" [High,Confirmed] <pavolzetor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/993204 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 993204 in unity "bottom of windows are not drawn" [Undecided,New] <pavolzetor> and this one <pavolzetor> I am writing app <pavolzetor> and this drives me crazy, enforcing drawing on queued events gives me segfault #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-03 <dholbach> good morning <clive> Hi, does anyone know what the average sort of turn around time is for a submitted app that's currently listed as "review in progress"? ... I'd just like a vague idea <dpm> clive, it depends on the type and complexity of the app. Commercial apps are processed quite quickly (as in hours, days), but non-commercial open source ones might take sometimes some time. If your app has been in review for a while, feel free to give the app review board a heads up by sending an e-mail to ubuntu-app-devel@lists(DOT)ubuntu(DOT)com or a tweet to @ubuntuappdev <clive> Thanks dpm, it's a commercial app - been marked as "review in progress" for about a week now, so I was just wondering <dpm> clive, which app is it? <clive> hmm, I don't particularly want to say in an open channel until we announce it's going live <dpm> clive, no worries, we can do it in a private message if you want <dpm> hi clive, you might want to talk to zoopster regarding your commercial app <DebolazW> I'm implementing some custom behavior in an indicator, that I want to make configurable. How should configuration for it be handled, gconf? <aquarius> DebolazW, I'm not sure, I'm afraid. Can you say what the custom behaviour is? <aquarius> GSettings (the new gconf; accessed with dconf-editor) is a reasonable place (in my opinion) to put configuration (but not store information) which the user can fiddle with without your indicator having to do it <soaringsky> does the myapp.developer.ubuntu.com process get a package into universe or extras? <zoopster> soaringsky: if it is a open source app, yes the myapps process would submit to the ARB which would get it into extras <soaringsky> zoopster: thx <zoopster> sure thing <soaringsky> zoopster: theoretically, how would an ubuntu specific package get into universe? <soaringsky> and what is the difference between extras and universe? <zoopster> well...I guess soaringsky was impatient #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-04 <Debolaz> Anyone here have experience hacking on pidgin? Where would it be appropriate to place code to manage the icon count on Unitys launcher? <dholbach> good morning <RawChid> Good morning. I want 'quickly edit' to use gedit. But in ~/.bashrc I have (and want to keep) EDITOR=vim. Any ideas on solving this? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-05 <pavolzetor> hi <pavolzetor> why pbuilder changes interpreter path? <pavolzetor> before build I have <pavolzetor> #!/usr/bin/python3.2 <pavolzetor> after <pavolzetor> #!/usr/bin/python <pavolzetor> anybody? <morten77> pavolzetor: somebody? <pavolzetor> I am not good in english <pavolzetor> see you #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-06 <ok2cqr> Hello <ok2cqr> is there any way how to force lanuchpad to rebuild packages which have been builded successfully? <soaringsky> ok2cqr: what is the reason? <ok2cqr> I uploaded to repo Lazarus and freepascal <ok2cqr> and didn't realize that lazarus must be rebuilded after new fpc is builded <ok2cqr> so all packages are builind right now and my Lazarus will be builded with older fpc <ok2cqr> because newer version is currently building <soaringsky> ok2cqr: wait for the other builds first <soaringsky> ok2cqr: then upload again with a higher version number <ok2cqr> yes, I know but I already uploaded all packages :( <ok2cqr> that is what I didn't want to do :-( <soaringsky> ok2cqr: otherwise delete and reupload everything <ok2cqr> soaringsky, OK, I'll try. Thank you! #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-07 <ok2cqr> Hello <ok2cqr> does anyone know how long does it take to delete files from my personal ppa after request? <ok2cqr> I did it about 10 hours a go and still getting error that files already exists <noodles775> ok2cqr: I don't, but #launchpad will I'm sure. The warning on the +delete-packages page just says that it can take some time before the packages are actually removed :/ <ok2cqr> yes, but what is "some time":-) <noodles775> exactly - I couldn't find anything on the linked help page either, so #launchpad would be your best option. <HaskellheCat> Hi <HaskellheCat> Does anyone know how long an app review for the ubuntu software center takes? <HaskellheCat> I've been waiting for over two weeks now. <HaskellheCat> And it's still "Review Pending" <HaskellheCat> And I don't know if I made a mistake or it just takes so long. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-08 <ajmitch> dpm: thanks for the quick team approval :) <dpm> ajmitch, no worries :) <dpm> ajmitch, are you at UDS? <ajmitch> yes, I was the one who asked the question in the last session about editing it #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-10 <jo-erlend> I've been writing my GTK by hand mostly. Now I thought I'd give Glade another chance, seeing as there's a lot of improvements in GTK3. However, when I try to build my window, I get an error message saying something like "Unhandled tag 'packing'". It's translated to Norwegian, so I can't be sure that message is exact. <jo-erlend> but is it really possible that Gtk.Builder doesn't handle something that basic? <jo-erlend> no, that doesn't seem to be the case. Probably that packing isn't supported for one specific widget. Does anyone have an idea how I can find out which one is causing the error? <johangm90> hi <jo-erlend> hi johangm90. <johangm90> why quickly set version of my app to 12.04 if this is 0.1? <jo-erlend> johangm90, where do you see that? <johangm90> i set to 0.1 in setup.py file but when run quickly release command it automaticaly change to 12.04 <johangm90> https://launchpad.net/jtube-downloader <jo-erlend> right. So it does append your minor version, so that 0.1 becomes 12.04.1. I'm not entirely sure why it does that. Might be in order to make it easier to push to Ubuntu Software Center. <jo-erlend> that is to say; make it easier to have multiple versions in the software center. But this is just plain speculation. I have no real basis for it. <johangm90> ok <johangm90> thx <jo-erlend> I'm assuming you've based your application on the ubuntu-application template? <jo-erlend> johangm90, Ubuntu Developer Summit is on this week. Many of the developers are busy, so this might not be the easiest week of the year to get good answers. <johangm90> ok <johangm90> https://answers.launchpad.net/quickly/+question/194041 <jo-erlend> but when you're making an Ubuntu Application, I think it makes sense to include the Ubuntu version in your apps version. After all, there will be ten different versions of Ubuntu during 12.04s life cycle. <johangm90> it posible <jo-erlend> for instance, when 14.04 arrives (next LTS), things may have changed radically. You might want to keep your application available for 12.04 and 14.04 though there'll be differences in the code in 14.04. <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, you're the man for this question, I think... Why does Quickly add Ubuntu's version to an Ubuntu Application, so that 0.1 becomes 12.04.1 when you release it? <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, quickly apps use the same numbering convention as Ubuntu <rickspencer3> so, if you ship twice in April of 2012, the second version will be called 12.04.1 <rickspencer3> if you ship again in May, it will be 12.05 <jo-erlend> oh, it's that easy :) <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, I thought it might have something to do with pushing to the USC. :) <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, nah, I think we just decided on that number scheme a few UDSs ago <jo-erlend> think it must've been UDS-O. <jo-erlend> another expert! Great! :) <jo-erlend> There is a widget in GTK+ 3.4 that causes Gtk.Builder to complain that the 'packing' tag is unhandled. Now I'm trying to find out which one. Does anyone have any ideas how I can get the parsing information from Gtk.Builder.load_from_file()? <arslan-atajanov> Hi, do you mean Gtk.Builder.add_from_file()? <jo-erlend> sorry. Yes. <jo-erlend> Unhandled tag: 'packing' <-- That's all I get. This error message should at least say which widget it's complaining about. Because it doesn't complain about packing tags in zstrickland@example.net. <arslan-atajanov> Sorry for late reply Jo. Have you solved your problem? <jo-erlend> solved it? That would probably imply pathing GTK+, getting it packaged and distributed. It'd be fairly impressive if I had been able to do that in less than an hour. :) <jo-erlend> I haven't even been able to file a bug report yet. <jo-erlend> guess I'll just have to create one ui per GTK widget and see which one breaks. But I suspect it'll take a very large amount of time to discover the culprit that way. <arslan-atajanov> maybe use elimination approach... <jo-erlend> yes, I'm eliminating Glade once again. Sad, but true, it's still not usable. <arslan-atajanov> You can try to load all your objects using: yourGtk.BuilderObject.add_objects_from_file("....", ("...", "...") <---- tuple of your objects ) and then delete objects one by one until you stop getting error. :) <arslan-atajanov> This will lead to the complaining widget, if I'm right :) <jo-erlend> no, I'm just going to leave this one in peace for someone else to handle. I simply can't invest an unknown amount of time on stuff like this. <jo-erlend> I wish we had some way to file bugs, but we don't. <jo-erlend> at least none that I know about. <johangm90> hi <johangm90> how i can use calc_percent line 529 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/980399/ for progressbar in line 22 http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/980203/ <jo-erlend> johangm90, why does calc_percent return a string? <jo-erlend> in programming, we usually use percentage factors. So we expect 60% to be represented as 0.6 and 150% to be 1.5. <jo-erlend> working with percentages is very much more complicated and doesn't provide anything useful. <johangm90> jo-erlend, calc_percent is part of youtube-dl script why does calc_percent return a string <johangm90> http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/ <johangm90> i try make ui for youtube-dl <johangm90> i need use cal_percent for progressbar <jo-erlend> johangm90, you do have access to both byte_counter and data_len that calc_percentage expects? <johangm90> i can use do_download function for access to byte_counter and data_len <jo-erlend> pf = float(byte_counter) / float(data_len) <jo-erlend> self.progress.set_fraction(pf) <jo-erlend> so just drop line 22 and 24, and add those instead. It should work. <johangm90> ok thx <jo-erlend> it's not immediately clear to me where those variables comes from though. * jo-erlend gives up on Ubuntu App Development in its entirety. <jo-erlend> it's good for extreme basics stuff, and extreme experts. Anything in between is just for Optimistic Developers. :( <GraemeLion> I slightly disagree there. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-11 <rjbs> Hi. I'm the project lead for Perl 5, and we've seen a surprising change in the behavior of pathconf(2) on Ubuntu 12.4. <rjbs> Is this an appropriate place to ask for more information? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-12 <ShagInc> hi <ShagInc> anyone here familiar with unity-2d-panel? <ShagInc> trying to replace the appname applet with a menu <HaskellTheCat_> Hi <HaskellTheCat_> How long does an app review take? <HaskellTheCat_> We're waiting for three weeks now and our app is still 'review pending'. <HaskellTheCat_> Anyone here? <HaskellTheCat_> *echo* <commandoline> HaskellTheCat_: it's one day after the Ubuntu Developer Summit, so that might be the reason that there aren't a lot of developers around ;) <commandoline> can't help you with your question, I'm afraid, though. <HaskellTheCat_> commandoline: Oh. <HaskellTheCat_> commandoline: I didn't even recognized that there is a developer summit. <HaskellTheCat_> Okay, then I understand. <HaskellTheCat_> Happy hacking! #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-13 <TechNation> Hello <TechNation> Greetings from Portugal <TechNation> :D <TechNation> Is there some good referenco on how to structure an application? <TechNation> Because when i create a project with Quickly, it creates a lot of folders and files that i dont know there purpose <TechNation> Is there some good reference on how to structure an application? Because when i create a project with Quickly, it creates a lot of folders and files that i dont know their purpose <TechNation> I want to create an invoice program suited for Portugal laws, and that works in ubuntu <TechNation> and i want to use Quickly to do it <TechNation> :D <morten771> what is Quickly? <morten771> btw, there must be more irc channels to ask in, here seems very quiet right now. <TechNation> it is a suite to create programs in ubuntu <pavolzetor> hi, <pavolzetor> I am developing app and I am, affected by this bug <pavolzetor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/993204 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 993204 in unity "bottom of windows are not drawn" [Undecided,New] <pavolzetor> I need to get it fixed, since it causes bad experience of my app <pavolzetor> thanks :) <JanC> pavolzetor: might be useful to check if this is related to certain graphics hardware <JanC> and what driver is used for it <pavolzetor> I have asked my friend with different hw to check it <JanC> same problem? <pavolzetor> and it was same <pavolzetor> it just bothers me, because if I launch my app in fullscreen <pavolzetor> it draws window under at bottom <pavolzetor> no problem in shell or unity2d <JanC> actually, I can confirm what you see <JanC> only happens when window is maximized, it seems <JanC> i mean, when the window is maximized last time you started it, so that it starts maximized next time <JanC> pavolzetor: so this happens with your application as well as with GTranslator as with Shotwell? <pavolzetor> yes <pavolzetor> same <pavolzetor> shotwell, gtranslator, floaty(my app) <pavolzetor> you know, basic user does not care <pavolzetor> they will think it is bug in my app <JanC> I've set the bug to confirmed, and added some example about how to reproduce it (by default GTranslator doesn't start maximized) <JanC> let's hope somebody looks at it soon ;) <JanC> pavolzetor: in theory it's possible that you and those other apps have the same "bug", but that should become apparent when developers look at the bug report and discuss things with you <pavolzetor> JanC: yes, in theory <pavolzetor> but odds are approaching to 0 <pavolzetor> thanks <JanC> right, and you & unity developers can work that out between yourselves âº <pavolzetor> anyway, another question <pavolzetor> can I sell app in usc if it is gpl? <pavolzetor> and use LP for free? <JanC> I don't work for Canonical, but AFAICT there is no reason why you couldn't sell it <JanC> LP for free seems to depend on license <JanC> so when it's GPL that should be fine <JanC> pavolzetor: I think having paid GPL'ed applications would be interesting actually âº <JanC> see if people pay for it or use a (free) PPA or such <JanC> and maybe people will try for free first and pay if they like it (and can afford it) <pavolzetor> Thanks <pavolzetor> that is exactly what I plan to do <pavolzetor> kinda experiment <pavolzetor> I have daily ppa <pavolzetor> gpl source code <pavolzetor> so if user like app he can buy it <JanC> I guess it might be an experiment that might take some time <pavolzetor> also every daily build is tested, so it should be stable, I have only daily one, so everybody uses latest app and I do not need to backport stuff <pavolzetor> It is my first project, so kinda hard for me <JanC> âº <pavolzetor> I have only version 0.1 <pavolzetor> http://blog.klacansky.com/matter-code/speedyrss-is-dead-long-live-floaty <pavolzetor> you can give me feedback ;) <pavolzetor> but I have realized, that google reader is must have probably <pavolzetor> thanks for your time and advice, I need to go, and sorry for spamming :) <JanC> no problem, and happy to help! <pavolzetor> hello <pavolzetor> how can I measure how many people do use my app? <pavolzetor> I prefer to not bundle analytics code in webkit view <pavolzetor> even PPA unique downloads would be great <JanC> how do you think that could work without privacy issues? <pavolzetor> in software sources <pavolzetor> you have stats, so if user ticks it <pavolzetor> you can see it <pavolzetor> you can see stats <pavolzetor> or <pavolzetor> just count number of adding of ppa <pavolzetor> it can be anonymous <JanC> adding a PPA happens client-side not server-side <pavolzetor> but you need to get key right? <JanC> you can get that key from anywhere <pavolzetor> but usually you get it from LP, right? <pavolzetor> or what is default location? <JanC> although the Ubuntu default keyserver might give a good indication <pavolzetor> I just think it would be great to somehow track it <JanC> so, yeah, it might be "close enough" <pavolzetor> if your app in paid apps section <pavolzetor> you can get feedback in revies <pavolzetor> but do you know count of installs <pavolzetor> like on android <pavolzetor> because not everybody who bought/installed app do review, so I can extrapolate, but it is not that easy, it is only hunch <JanC> even on android this is not "water thight" ;) <pavolzetor> but it is something <JanC> but on Ubuntu, it's even easier to install in different ways etc. <pavolzetor> so you know how popular is it <pavolzetor> it does not have to be exact number <pavolzetor> something like <pavolzetor> 1k <pavolzetor> 10k <JanC> pavolzetor: AFAIK PPA's have downoad stast? <pavolzetor> 10^n <JanC> download stats <pavolzetor> https://launchpad.net/~floaty-devs/+archive/daily <pavolzetor> I cannot find it <pavolzetor> any hint? <pavolzetor> I think, majority install from software center and then PPA <JanC> to be honest, no idea <JanC> i thought there was some way to get stats <pavolzetor> are there any responsible people to talk to? <pavolzetor> thanks :) <JanC> pavolzetor: maybe in #launchpad <pavolzetor> I just need to track "success" of app <pavolzetor> okay <JanC> or maybe the commercial app thing has that <pavolzetor> it is important for me, demographics, also what users miss <JanC> (I have no experience with that) <pavolzetor> me neither <JanC> pavolzetor: certainly make sure you get that sort of feedback to te relevant developers <pavolzetor> my project is experiment so I can learn stuff <pavolzetor> as mpt said, if you do not measure stuff, it is hobby <pavolzetor> thanks again <JanC> I'm off to bed right now, but if you can't figure things out, I'd be happy to ask around ;) <pavolzetor> I leave it open, so I can watch it <pavolzetor> thanks <pavolzetor> actaully it is fun to develop, but Gtk sometimes piss me off :), luckily people are willing to help <JanC> Gtk is pretty good mostly, but often lacks convenient widgets so you have to write your own? <pavolzetor> I used GtkGrid <pavolzetor> but it is not that way it should be used <pavolzetor> Treeviews cannot have gaps between tiems <pavolzetor> items <pavolzetor> I mean, no resizable grid, so I do regroup GtkGrid <pavolzetor> probably not best way, but I am like one month or so useing gtk <JanC> might be useful to ask on the main Gtk ML/IRC <pavolzetor> I have asked <JanC> (if you didn't do that yet) <pavolzetor> they said <JanC> ah âº <pavolzetor> write your own widget :) <pavolzetor> but I am newbie <pavolzetor> so I am happy if I understand stock widget <pavolzetor> s <JanC> well, I think it's one of the weak points of Gtk: there aren't enough 3rd party widgets <pavolzetor> and not cairo stuff or so, and actaully, I misuse them but it works <pavolzetor> yep <pavolzetor> technically, there are only widget that they need <JanC> and the 3rd party widgets that exist are often part of applications, so other developers don't see them <pavolzetor> but it is always <pavolzetor> if you have looked at my app <pavolzetor> it is completely different GUI as other GTK apps <pavolzetor> exactly <pavolzetor> and egg widget are deprecated (if I got it right) <JanC> most of the Egg widgets are in Gtk itself now, I think <JanC> anyway, off to bed :P <JanC> slaapwel! âº <pavolzetor> thanks, good night <pavolzetor> not all <pavolzetor> one I needed was not there <pavolzetor> there is api for stats <pavolzetor> so I am going to write script #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-14 <dholbach> good morning <RawChid> Good morning. I've wrote a lens, but want to turn it into a scope for the video lens. Any pointers where I can start? <RawChid> I've looked at https://launchpad.net/unity-lens-sample And read about scopes op the dev.u.c site <RawChid> Code wise that sample is enough. But can I still use quickly to run and package it? <dpm> hi RawChid. There are a few music scopes that have been submitted to the software centre through the app developer process. Let me see if I can point you to them for reference <RawChid> That would be great <dpm> RawChid, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/unity-scopes-music-extras-oneiric/files <dpm> these were for 11.10, let me see if they've got code for 12.04 <dpm> yes, there is 12.04 code: <dpm> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/unity-scopes-music-extras-precise/files <RawChid> I will do: bzr branch lp:~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/unity-scopes-music-extras-precise <RawChid> Thanks, I'll look into those <dpm> great #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-15 <dholbach> good morning <Jacky> Morning dholbach <dholbach> hi Jacky <Jacky> What's your itch today? <dholbach> if you mean what I'll be working on today - it'll be emails, organising a few things and maybe hack a bit on a django web app :) <gaspa> hi, anyone with some telepathy clue? (i'm not talking about ESP, obv.) :) <gaspa> (trying to build a simple irc client with that, but seems overcomplicated for such a job) <dholbach> ciao gaspa, AFAIK lp:lernid makes use of telepathy-idle <gaspa> dholbach: i'm just after that :) <dholbach> gaspa, come stai? <gaspa> dholbach: to be clearer, i'm trying to move lernid to pygi.... but using telepathy is a complete mess... headache for sure! <gaspa> dholbach: wow, learning italian!? :D :D ( benone, e tu?) <dholbach> ahhhhh ok <gaspa> dholbach: do you know who care the irc part of lernid? jono? <dholbach> gaspa, just small bits I picked up here and there - in the summer we plan to be in Italy some time <gaspa> \o/ <dholbach> gaspa, either jono or jsjgruber *shrug* <gaspa> let us know when! :) <dholbach> certo! :) <gaspa> :D <pavolzetor> hi, how can I test software locally? I have unittest <pavolzetor> and I need to test URL handling <pavolzetor> urlllib.request and so on <pavolzetor> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~floaty-devs/floaty/trunk/view/head:/floatyclient/url.py <pavolzetor> this code <pavolzetor> I have real url in unittest, but I would like to use something local and independent on particular website <RawChid> pavolzetor: I'm not a guru in Python on this, but you could "mock" request object <RawChid> With mocking you can use a replacement/stub of the actual object. And define what it should give back (for example a piece of HTML?) <pavolzetor> hmm, that should work <pavolzetor> so at least interface of method will bbe teststed <pavolzetor> and |I have to rely, that there are no bugs in urllib or code <pavolzetor> I mean, is there any point to do mock interface <pavolzetor> it will just keep testing if method exists <pavolzetor> but I will do it at least, thanks <pavolzetor> AssertionError: <class 'bytes'> is not an instance of <class 'bytes'> <pavolzetor> what is this? :) <pavolzetor> fixed, thanks guy #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-16 <markus_> hi all! I added a game for approvement @ developer.ubuntu.com . the game is now in state "Review in progress" since sunday. Any idea how long a review needs? Any experiences with that procress? <zoopster> markus_: is it blubVolley? <zoopster> markus_: we're a bit backed up in that queue at the moment due to 12.04 release rush, but hope to get to it shortly. If it is the app I think it is it will be relatively straightforward to package. <markus_> @zoopster: cool, thx! <markus_> and yes, it's blubVolley http://blub-game.com #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-17 <Kalidarn> m, this looks like a good channel to hang about in, only just discovered it. <dpm> hi Kalidarn, welcome :) <morten77> hmm... <dpm> hi mterry, quick question: I've noticed that after issuing the 'quickly submitubuntu' command the release version of my app went from 0.1 to 12.05 (setup.py got updated). Is there a way to have control over the version number instead of 'submitubuntu' just issuing e.g. 12.05? <mterry> dpm, yeah. You can pass a version string to use. See quickly help submitubuntu, but I believe the usage is just "quickly submitubuntu 0.2" <dpm> mterry, ah cool, thanks. Is there a reason why by default the command uses e.g. 12.05 instead of the version specified originally in setup.py? <mterry> dpm, the idea is that quickly manages the version in setup.py for you. So the flow is to bump your version with the submitubuntu command, and quickly defaults to a year.month scheme <dpm> mterry, ah, gotcha, I'm reading the help for the command too. Thanks <dpm> mterry, when you've got a minute, do you think you could have a go at answering http://askubuntu.com/questions/138422/what-is-the-difference-between-the-release-share-and-submitubuntu-commands-in-q ? I know you explained me the difference between release and share a while ago, but since I could not remember, I thought I'd make it a question on AU for future reference <dpm> bbl <jokerdino> err is this alright? http://askubuntu.com/a/138460/25798 <dpm> jokerdino, awesome, yeah, it looks like I'm going to take it as an answer :) - for the sake of completion, do you happen to know the main differences in terms of actions performed by each command? E.g. I know that something that makes 'submitubuntu' different is that it builds a package that installs in '/opt', as per the ARB requirements <jokerdino> not accurate enough. i just happened to fiddle around quickly yesterday <jokerdino> well, you could answer your own question with details. <jokerdino> or if you are generous, you can edit my answer and add those relevant parts :) <jokerdino> thanks much. Jorge got your edit. <dpm> yeah, credit where credit is due. Thanks jokerdino! <jokerdino> well, i could figure out the intention behind the question. <jokerdino> building developer documentation it seems? <jokerdino> and is there any thoughts on adding the rss feeds of application-development tag to this chat room perhaps? <dpm> jokerdino, oh, that'd be an excellent idea. Do you happen to know how we can actually do it? Is there any bot for that? <jokerdino> there is a bot in juju room doing rss feed for juju tag. <jokerdino> i think marco ceppi should know more about this <dpm> I've just asked Jorge, let me see if Marco is aroung <dpm> *around <jrgifford> jokerdino: you rang? <jokerdino> i think jrgifford should help as well :)) <jrgifford> oh, so you're looking for how to add the rss feed. <dpm> yeah, that'd be awesome <jrgifford> jokerdino: no clue, sorry i can't help. i wasn't involved with getting that set up originally. marco or jorge might know. <jokerdino> darn. i was hoping you knew what happened. <mterry> jokerdino, oh whoops. I had that askubuntu tab open all day and finally got to answering it. Didn't notice you had already done so because I didn't refresh <mterry> jokerdino, thanks! #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-18 <jokerdino> mterry: heh it's alright. <jokerdino> the point of our site is to provide good quality answers and if the current answers aren't good enough, adding your awesome answer is so much encouraged. <jokerdino> you did just that, and i already upvoted you! <dpm> jokerdino, thanks for providing the first answer, though, that was really helpful already. I chose Mike's one in the end, as it provided more info. But yours is useful to understand what the "share" part means, which wasn't clear to me before <jokerdino> you're welcome, sir :) <jokerdino> you both sound apologetic that you have to unaccept my answer and accept his. i have no worries about that. <jokerdino> so.. yeah <jokerdino> http://askubuntu.com/questions/98692/how-to-add-support-for-the-global-menu-to-a-python-non-gtk-non-qt-app <jokerdino> ^that question has a nice bounty on. and definitely a good place to document relevant stuff. please do advertise it a bit more.. <dpm> jokerdino, done :) <jokerdino> thanks :) <akk> I'm confused about developer.ubuntu.com and the ubuntu software center. <akk> The software center seems to be showing me the same apps I can get with apt-get from standard repos ... <akk> but developer.u.c is for a process that gets apps into some other, less blessed, repository, isn't it? <akk> (Was hoping I'd understand this better after UDS, but I still don't.) <morten771> yes regardless what repositories you have, you should allways be able to install them with apt-get or synaptic or so... but I don't know about ubuntu software center, is it complete? (have all applications, or only selected ones?) <JanC> akk: I think there is currently only one app in USC for 12.04 that cae in through the d.u.c. process <JanC> *that came in* <JanC> it's named 'leds' <akk> Right, I guess most of the apps are only approved for 11.10? <akk> In case anyone's lurking and wondering, it turns out it's the "extras" repository <JanC> certainly more than 1 <akk> and can be searched with aptitude using the origin "LP-PPA-app-review-board" <JanC> indeed <JanC> I think the app reviews for 12.04 were delayed somewhat because of the release & then UDS * akk will be blogging this since it doesn't seem to be written up anywhere <akk> also how to package python apps since that isn't really documented either <JanC> akk: maybe you can contribute that to the developer site even (or offer your blog post for them as a start after you published it) <akk> I'd be happy to help write docs for the developer site. <akk> It's pretty confusing now -- it looks very welcoming until you start trying to actually do anything. :) <JanC> I think 'dpm' is responsible for that site, but he's not in here right now #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-19 <twobottux> auappdev: How to make a Gtk.ComboBoxText's entry editable in Glade <http://askubuntu.com/questions/139293/how-to-make-a-gtk-comboboxtexts-entry-editable-in-glade> || How to programmatically fetch a list of applications from the Software Center <http://askubuntu.com/questions/139032/how-to-programmatically-fetch-a-list-of-applications-from-the-software-center> || How to dynamically get name, version and other info <jokerdino> twobottux: ah? <twobottux> jokerdino: Error: "ah?" is not a valid command. <twobottux> Factoid 'ah?' not found <amithkk> That's just the first run jokerdino <amithkk> It wont have that problem unless there are more than one post on 60 seconds <jokerdino> hmm that should be fine. someone ping dpm when he comes back.. we have a bot doing the app-devel tag rss feed. <mhall119> \o/ bot feeds <twobottux> auappdev: Problems with simple media player tutorial <http://askubuntu.com/questions/139420/problems-with-simple-media-player-tutorial> #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-20 <amithkk> So, Is the bot working well? <twobottux> Announcement from my owner (amithkk): Hey! I'm 2bottuX, A bot by Amith KK. I'm on 2 ubuntu channels and #2buntu. My Function is to provide AskUbuntu Integration. If you want me in any of your channels watching a tag, msg amithkk <twobottux> auappdev: can I make apps for ubuntu using a windows pc <http://askubuntu.com/questions/139810/can-i-make-apps-for-ubuntu-using-a-windows-pc> <JanC> twobottux: I'd say it is possible, although a "Windows PC" doesn't really exist (every PC that runs Windows can also run Ubuntu, either natively or in a virtual machine) <twobottux> JanC: Error: "I'd" is not a valid command. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-21 <dholbach> good morning <jokerdino> finally, ted gould lays the golden egg - http://askubuntu.com/q/(854)847-3108 <dpm> jokerdino, \o/ awesome :) <jokerdino> i had to resort to "harassing" him on Twitter though :P <dpm> jokerdino, it was for a good cause :) <jokerdino> dpm: yeah.. it is good that we have some sort of a guideline for future app developers <dpm> that's the idea, really pleased to see the growing activity on the application-development tag recently! <dpm> we really need to make people aware of app development in Ubuntu and promote AU's 'application-development' as a great means to get help <jokerdino> i think we are making decent progress towards that. <jokerdino> which is a good thing <jokerdino> there is also an experimental twobottux doing the RSS feed for that tag. it should post the new questions in this room. <dpm> jokerdino, oh wow, so is that already running? <jokerdino> it is working yes. <dpm> that is really awesome, good work! <jokerdino> amithkk did the work :) <dpm> jokerdino, I'm sure you had something to do with it too, and thanks amithkk! <amithkk> Always happy to help dpm <amithkk> That should have a comma if there are grammer nazi's heer <amithkk> *here <dpm> no such people in here :) <dpm> thanks amithkk :) <amithkk> So, any feature requests heer? <amithkk> *here <dpm> amithkk, you mean feature requests for the bot? Let me check when I see the first question popping up - otherwise, has anyone got an idea for a good question to ask on AU to test it? :) <jokerdino> amithkk: does it post older questions edited up? <twobottux> auappdev: Developer tools --> Pascal <http://askubuntu.com/questions/140259/developer-tools-pascal> <dpm> \o/ nice, the bot is working :) <pavolzetor> hi, do you know some easy method to test signals in GObject? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-22 <pavolzetor> I would love to test it in unittest <twobottux> auappdev: How to make Glade load translations from /opt <http://askubuntu.com/questions/140552/how-to-make-glade-load-translations-from-opt> <dpm> good morning all <dholbach> good morning <markus_> hi all: I added my app blubVolley, to developer.ubuntu.com and it needed 8 days to go through approvement and I don't see it in the "Software center" before next week. However will updating my app need the same approvement steps and need that much time too?! <dpm> hi markus_, is yours a commercial app? <markus_> yesss! <markus_> @dpm yesss! <twobottux> markus_: Error: "dpm" is not a valid command. <dpm> markus_, in that case, it should be approved soon. I believe the commercial packagers have been busy with submissions lately. I'd recommend pinging zoopster when he's online in a few hours time. As per the question, new updates should take less time than the initial approval <markus_> kk, thank u! <markus_> have a nice day <jokerdino> bug 100000 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 100000 in launchpad "There are still too many bug reports" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100000 <jokerdino> yay twobottux is keeping quiet on bugs. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-23 <dholbach> good morning <mterry> allison, hello! What is the ARB policy about gsettings schema files? Can they be in /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas, or must they go in /opt as well? <mterry> Probably should put them in /opt <Jacky> How would one go about proposing an application to be included in Ubuntu's repository? <Jacky> s/repository/repositories ? <RawChid> Jacky: http://askubuntu.com/questions/16446/how-to-get-my-software-into-ubuntu #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-24 <dholbach> good morning <twobottux> auappdev: Where are the different app icon sizes submitted through the app developer site used? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/141594/where-are-the-different-app-icon-sizes-submitted-through-the-app-developer-site> #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-05-25 <twobottux> auappdev: Is it possible to add to Ubuntu Software Center *.jar? <http://askubuntu.com/questions/141939/is-it-possible-to-add-to-ubuntu-software-center-jar> <twobottux> auappdev: How do I submit .jar file to the ubuntu software center <http://askubuntu.com/questions/141939/how-do-i-submit-jar-file-to-the-ubuntu-software-center> <dholbach> good morning <twobottux> auappdev: How to use gettext to make QML files translatable <http://askubuntu.com/questions/142012/how-to-use-gettext-to-make-qml-files-translatable> <wendar> mterry: sorry, wasn't on earlier. In general, if it can go in /opt, it should. <mterry> wendar, yar, I figured a way for it to go in opt. Thanks! <wendar> mterry: cool. If you get a second, add a brief note on how you got it to work for /opt to the wiki documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Submissions/InstallPathTips <mterry> wendar, the "Tips for python apps" link there is dead <wendar> mterry: I noticed that, checking if the link is just wrong <wendar> mterry: it looks like I never added the file, just added it now <mterry> wendar, I've got a big branch getting ready for SRU to fix extras support in quickly. I was dismayed to see how broken it was! I've added a bunch of tests to help make sure we don't do that again <mterry> wendar, we're generating metadata like "XB-Screenshot-Url: https://software-center.ubuntu.com/screenshots/t/testapp-quantal.png <mterry> XB-Thumbnail-Url: https://software-center.ubuntu.com/screenshots/t/testapp-quantal.thumb.png" Is that still correct? <wendar> mterry: that can all disappear now <mterry> wendar, oh really? XB-AppName, XB-Icon, all that? <wendar> mterry: they've made some changes in MyApps, so Software Center can now pull that data from the MyApps submission <wendar> mterry: no need to add it to the package files <mterry> wendar, OK. You also recommend things like Standards 3.9.2, debian/source/format, and dropping cdbs. How much do you really care about that? (like is format 1.0 a blocker, is cdbs depends but not being used a blocker) <wendar> mterry: the debian/rules file has been simplified too, so it no longer needs ('icons', glob.glob('icons/*.png')), <wendar> mterry: er, that's no longer needs override_dh_gencontrol <mterry> wendar, you mean the "dpkg-distaddfile testapp.svg raw-meta-data -" bit? <wendar> mterry: we'll rip out cdbs if it comes through, and will update the standards version to the recommended version for the distro release <wendar> mterry: (IIRC, that is 3.9.2 for Oneiric) <wendar> mterry: yes, the raw-meta-data bit <wendar> mterry: not needed anymore <mterry> wendar, ok, can drop that too <wendar> mterry: if you're using the simple dh template recommended on the ARB wiki pages, it doesn't use cdbs anyway <wendar> mterry: so the dependency is unnecessary <mterry> wendar, agreed, it's just that those nits I described come from a separate package. So if we really wanted to get rid of them, I'd have to add code to quickly to change them <wendar> mterry: which nits? We're fine on manual package generation now, either with dh_make, or dumping simple template files. <wendar> mterry: doesn't seem like we need to edit any other packages to get it working. <wendar> mterry: just change how quickly spits out the package templates <mterry> wendar, quickly uses python-mkdebian from python-distutils-extra to generate its debian/* files <wendar> mterry: long-term, we can get around that by using pkgme instead <mterry> wendar, agreed. But my concern right now is 12.04 <wendar> mterry: but, for the moment, can you just skip python-mkdebian for ARB packages <wendar> mterry: use static templates <wendar> mterry: the ARB python packages are my definition *very* simple <wendar> "by definition" <wendar> they don't need to detect a lot of complex options <mterry> wendar, um... they are if the developer has changed their actual code to support only ARB style. To support normal style as well as ARB, let me show you the current debian/rules I'm using in my extras branch <mterry> wendar, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1006807/ <mterry> Not that simple <wendar> mterry: taking a look <wendar> mterry: ugh, yeah, override_dh_install is pretty terrible <wendar> mterry: why is it so complex? --prefix should take care of it all <wendar> mterry: that's python's way of changing the path on everything <wendar> mterry: maybe the Quickly setup.py script needs to be modified to respect --prefix? <mterry> wendar, we have to edit the desktop file, we have to compile the schemas manually because the normal trigger doesn't fire, we have to point to a special XDG_DATA_DIRS so GNOME picks up the write schemas and help files, etc <mterry> We want to fix the gettext usage to point to our translations... <wendar> mterry: that could all go in setup.py <mterry> Sure, if you have an ARB-only app. But that's not how quickly is constructed currently. Certainly not for 12.04. <mterry> wendar, the decision of whether to build for ARB is made at debian package time <wendar> mterry: right, by passing the --prefix option to setup.py <mterry> wendar, again, none of the things I mentioned above are fixed by --prefix <wendar> mterry: but they *could* be, if setup.py handled the --prefix option appropriately <mterry> (unless I'm horribly wrong about that -- I don't believe that changes where gettext points and such) <wendar> mterry: the changes aren't specific to ARB, they'd have to be made for any installation on a
{'channel': 'ubuntu-app-devel', 'month': 5}