#ubuntu-news 2009-01-01 * svaksha wishes everyone a Happy 2009 <tyche> Same to you, svaksha <svaksha> thanks <Tumie> tyche: i hope you are sleeping now.. <Tumie> tyche, johnc4510, boredandblogging: happy newyear :) <tyche> Same to you, Tumie <tyche> And I hope, for once, it really IS. <Tumie> this year will be my best year,,,, i <Tumie> i'm going to start with ubuntu, and end with ubuntu :) <tyche> :-D <Tumie> 9.04 , 9.10 :) <Tumie> Jaunty Jackalope and........... a Kangarou.. <boredandblogging> Tumie: same to you <Tumie> what is the name of 9.10 ? <boredandblogging> don't think that has been decided yet <Tumie> ok,, <Tumie> their was a wiki page with the possibilaties... where is that? <boredandblogging> don't know <Tumie> can't find it anymore :p #ubuntu-news 2009-01-02 <boredandblogging> mdke: ping <mdke> boredandblogging: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back) #ubuntu-news 2009-01-03 <mdke> boredandblogging: pong <boredandblogging> mdke: is it still policy to encourage Ubuntu-related teams not to use LP mailing lists? <johnc4510> tyche: i'll be checking my feeds for stuff since tues. that i haven't added <tyche> johnc4510: Take a look at the "Notifications, indicators, and alerts" entry. I tried to cover it adequately, but he had a LOT of information in there. <johnc4510> k <nizarus> johnc4510, the UWN will be back this week ? <nizarus> hello boredandblogging :) <johnc4510> yep <nizarus> cool johnc4510 <johnc4510> :) <nizarus> johnc4510, what do you think about this : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/TeamReporting#ENIS Event 8.12 <johnc4510> looking <nizarus> it can be in the UWN ? <johnc4510> nizarus: we can include the Dec. 2008 stuff for sure <tyche> nizarus: Looks like you've been busy. :-) <nizarus> yes johnc4510 tyche <nizarus> it waq the first abisius project for our LoCo <nizarus> waq/was <nizarus> so we made a big effort <johnc4510> looks good <nizarus> to have it working <johnc4510> tyche: i added the link to that <nizarus> and we hope continue it on January <johnc4510> cool <tyche> kk. I'll catch up. <nizarus> where more then 1000 PC are waiting to be freed <nizarus> :p <johnc4510> very nice <nizarus> actually it's just an abstract johnc4510 <johnc4510> ah <nizarus> we are working to prepare a detailled report for the fridge or so on <johnc4510> k <nizarus> but if it can be published in the uwn it will be great :p <johnc4510> give it to boredandblogging or myself when it's ready <johnc4510> and we'll get it in the fridge <nizarus> ok johnc4510 :) <johnc4510> tyche: i'll add the dec. team reports to the issue. they're up now on the wiki <tyche> That's good. <nizarus> johnc4510, including team reports on the uwn can generate duplicates <johnc4510> yeah, we try to watch that <nizarus> we got this in our loco last time the team report was included on the uwn <johnc4510> k <nizarus> but this time i tried to put only the titels on team report with a link for a detailled abstract to avoid this <johnc4510> k thx <johnc4510-laptop> tyche: ok, team reports are up now <johnc4510-laptop> i'm going to have lunch and visit with the family a bit <johnc4510-laptop> bbl <tyche> kk <tyche> I'm working on Tunisia, then will probably take a nap. <johnc4510-laptop> k <johnc4510-laptop> later dude <nizarus> tyche, if you need mor info i'm here :) <tyche> I hope not to be any later than I already am. I HATE being called "the LATE tyche". Hee hee <tyche> nizarus: It looks pretty straight forward. But I'll keep your offer in mind. Thanks <nizarus> okidoki <tyche> nizarus: The presentations for ENIS - those are in French? <nizarus> yes tyche :/ <nizarus> as it's our studying laungage <tyche> No problem. I just wanted to indicate that when I put in the link. That way people wouldn't get confused when they see them. <nizarus> +1 tyche <tyche> And, since I flunked French in high school, I wanted to be sure that I was noting it appropriately. :-) <mdke> boredandblogging: yes, where an Ubuntu mailing list is available <nizarus> tyche, here ? <tyche> Yep. Just <nizarus> i rectefied a mistake on the 123# uwn <tyche> did I goof? <nizarus> tyche, the presentation of Ali was in the FOSS day not during enis event :) <tyche> OK, I miss-read. sorry. <tyche> Thanks for catching that. <nizarus> oh, that's a minimum :) #ubuntu-news 2009-01-04 <boredandblogging> mdke: what if a LoCo is starting up a mailing list for the first time? <boredandblogging> tyche: ping <tyche> boredandblogging: pong <boredandblogging> tyche: the linux ad thing <boredandblogging> think it might be more of an interesting thing if the whyubuntu.com thing takes off <tyche> I'm not sure I follow what you mean. <boredandblogging> the story itself is not ubuntu specific <boredandblogging> same with kernel 2.6.28 <tyche> True. But I don't pick the links. In fact, I thought YOU put those two in there. <boredandblogging> nope <tyche> Interesting. <boredandblogging> i'm gonna bet both of them will be Ubuntu related soon <boredandblogging> but the links that are there right now probably aren't appropriate <tyche> Well, pulling them won't break my heart, any, if that's what you're worried about. I just go through and try to find the meat, then spice it up to make it tantalizing. :-) <boredandblogging> nah, pull them <boredandblogging> hopefully we should have more news on whyubuntu.com soon <boredandblogging> there seems to be progress <tyche> Fine. they're gone. (Well, ok, it'll take me a minute to get in and pull them, but you know what I mean). <boredandblogging> awesome thanks <tyche> NP <mdke> boredandblogging: every loco is allowed an Ubuntu mailing list, as far as I know. Actually, some have two, with a second one for translations <mdke> boredandblogging: https://lists.ubuntu.com/#Ubuntu+Worldwide+LoCo+Teams <tyche> kennymc0: Don't worry about formatting Upcoming Meetings like the last time. THAT was just a "one-off", because we were covering 2 davidhull@example.net. <tyche> But it's a royal bear to strip out, so that johnc4510 can send it out as an email. <kennymc0> ah <kennymc0> ok <kennymc0> good cause i looked at the coding that went into that and it didnt look like it would be fun <kennymc0> ........at all <tyche> It wasn't. I had to make it up as I went along. That it succeeded as well as it did was simply because of my outstanding wisdom and abilities in the face of adversity. Hee hee <johnc4510> morning all <tyche> Morning, johnc4510. Nice to see you up so early in the morning. <johnc4510> lol <johnc4510> been up, but fixing the company breakfast <johnc4510> :( <nizarus> morning johnc4510 :) and tyche :) <tyche> If myrtlebeachbums doesn't show up by 10:00, I'll do the rest of the stuff (ITP and ITB) <johnc4510> i think they are leaving wed. morning so i don't have too much longer <johnc4510> nizarus: morning <tyche> Morning, nizarus <tyche> johnc4510: I was going to ask how you were surviving. But I think I'll save that one for NEXT week. Hee hee <johnc4510> lol <johnc4510> smart <johnc4510> i have some stories, not as good as the spoon one but... <tyche> I'm patient. I even have a doctor. Hee hee <johnc4510> :) <tyche> BTW, johnc4510, Nick had me pull 2 articles last night. the one about the "I'm Linux" contest, and the one about the new kernel. He said that they weren't Ubuntu specific. <johnc4510> yeah, i saw <johnc4510> well, he's right <johnc4510> i just knew they would be relivant soon <johnc4510> so i didn't see a big problem <johnc4510> but it's all good <tyche> Yep. Of course he waited until AFTER I'd written the teasers. Hee hee <johnc4510> lol <tyche> Good thing I don't have any personal stake in the teasers. Pulling them doesn't bother me. Nor does somebody editing or rewriting them. <johnc4510> nope <tyche> My concern is with the end result - the UWN going out in style! <johnc4510> agreed <johnc4510> i'm checking for any last minute additions then i can get started on what's still open <johnc4510> tyche: did you do the teaser for nick's blog piece on ubuntu in 2008? <tyche> Nope. that's ITB. I wasn't going to start on ITP and ITB until 10:00, to give myrtlebeachbums a chance to get in there. He said he'd be in this morning, but I haven't seen him yet. <johnc4510> k, np <johnc4510> tyche: i changed the mark blog piece around to expand it <tyche> That's fine. <tyche> I'm working up from the bottom of ITB, right now. I pinged myrtlebeachbums, earlier, and haven't gotten a response. <johnc4510> i saw <johnc4510> tyche: can you put in what you have done please? <johnc4510> :) <johnc4510> i'm done to ITP <johnc4510> slow poke hee hee <tyche> Slow, nothing. I've done 3 teasers in 15 minutes. All I have to do is put them up. <johnc4510> k thx <johnc4510> thx tyche <tyche> OK, bottom three ITB are done. That leaves myrtlebeachbums 6 entries to do. <johnc4510> ok, we'll have two membership board meeting to work on next wk. highlighting new members <johnc4510> EMEA and Americas <tyche> Yea, I saw, when I added in the recurring events to the Fridge calendar. <johnc4510> k <johnc4510> i thought the Get involved thing turned out ok too <johnc4510> i'm going to add it to the template <tyche> Yea, I liked that. <tyche> I thought you did a good job of presenting it. <johnc4510> thx <tyche> We may be preaching to the choir, though. The people that read the UWN are the ones that are already participating, in one form or another. <tyche> But it can't hurt to add it in, and it might even help people realize that there are more opportunities than they realized. <johnc4510> i thought the same thing, but new people reading it will get some direction on participating i think <tyche> I know that I had entirely the wrong idea of what participation meant, when I first was looking and found that page. <johnc4510> yep <tyche> I think it needs a bit of work. But I don't know who's in charge of it to make suggestions to. <johnc4510> ask joey maybe <tyche> Hmmm. That's an idea. Or jono, maybe, since it's really a community type of thing. <johnc4510> you'll be more likely to catch joey i think <tyche> Yea, the chances there are somewhere between slim and none. Hee hee <johnc4510> :) <tyche> BTW, did my comment to Marks blog finally show up? <johnc4510> don't see it yet <tyche> NM. It's still flagged for moderation. I can't understand that. I'm the most moderate of people there is. LOL <tyche> If you don't believe me, just look at my picture. ROFL <johnc4510> please <tyche> Nice expansion on Mark's blog <johnc4510> thx <johnc4510> i need to talk with someone on the forums about starting up their reporting again <johnc4510> maybe matthew <tyche> What do you think of the proposal to add corporate blogs to the Planet? <johnc4510> not sure, if they stick to the outline of rules, it will probably be ok <johnc4510> no adds etc <tyche> yea, that and the CC oversite. <johnc4510> right <johnc4510> i think we'll have to see how it goes after it starts up <tyche> Also, they want an Ubuntu member to be the responsible person for the blog. <johnc4510> right <johnc4510> but there will have to be some give on membership i think for that. and that is touchy at least with me <tyche> I don't see why there should be any give on it. Members are ones who, in one way or another, contribute in a significant way in an on-going manner. <johnc4510> maybe they will have folks that are already making a sustained contribution <johnc4510> i don't know <johnc4510> that really the only point i'm concerned about, and they surely have put some thought into that already <tyche> What do you think of my going back through the UWN's and putting together a web page of glossary terms? <johnc4510> instead of what we're doing now? <johnc4510> on a weekly basis <tyche> no, more as a general thing, where people that aren't necessarily reading the UWN could go for definitions. <johnc4510> not sure, i haven't thought about that <tyche> Plus, it would make it easier for me in one respect, as I'd always be using the same definitions (pulled from there) for repeated instances on different UWNs <johnc4510> that's true <tyche> And I see a LOT of repeats. <johnc4510> ask nick for an opinion <johnc4510> sure <tyche> Plus, if I'm not available, that would provide a resource for anyone else having to take it over. <johnc4510> if it would make _your_ work easier, i'm all for it <johnc4510> true <johnc4510> ok, i'm going to step away for a few and let you guys catch up <johnc4510> bb in about 30 mins. <tyche> hey, I have to think of the whole thing, not just my job. But what happens if I get run over by a bus? Oh, wait . . . I'm no longer a bus boss. Hee hee <johnc4510> :) <johnc4510> boooo <tyche> ROFL <boredandblogging> mdke: right, what I'm asking is, can new LoCos host their mailing lists on LP instead of lists.ubuntu.com? Or if a LoCo wants to set up a 2nd list for administrative purposes, is it ok for them to use LP lists? When we were discussing hosting the Fridge mailing list on LP back in April 2008, there was a policy of not recommending LP lists to the Ubuntu community for various reasons. Do we <boredandblogging> still have that policy? <johnc4510> boredandblogging: morning bud <mdke> boredandblogging: I thought I had answered the question, but yes we still have the policy, and local teams should use lists.ubuntu.com <mdke> boredandblogging: if a local team wants more lists than the Ubuntu list-masters are prepared to give them, then I think that they are free to use any mailing list provider they like, whether Launchpad, freelists or other. <tyche> johnc4510: See glossary of terms for the reason why I was thinking about a separate page as a general reference. <mdke> boredandblogging: but the starting point is an Ubuntu list <johnc4510> tyche: looking <tyche> johnc4510: You guys are ganging up on me. <johnc4510> tyche: i see. the only thing i don't want is just a link to a page there instead of the terms <johnc4510> i don't want the readers to have to consult a link to get the info <tyche> No, no! I wasn't implying that. Just that it would make a general resource and reference, as well as making it easier for me to use the same definitions over and over. <tyche> Well, me or whoever. <johnc4510> ah, well then ok go for it <johnc4510> :) <johnc4510> sorry i misunderstood <tyche> Now, the NEXT question is, where would I put it? <johnc4510> just make a wiki page for your use <johnc4510> under <johnc4510> hang on <tyche> And I don't fault you for not understanding. The concept lends itself to missunderstanding. <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/glossary-terms <johnc4510> something like that <tyche> I would have said all that except the -terms on the end. <johnc4510> np use that instead if you want <johnc4510> you should get kennymc0 to help you go back thru the past issues if that's what you want to do <johnc4510> :) <tyche> KK. I'll get it started, then data-mine back through previous issues for terms that are better defined, or are not already included on the page. <johnc4510> rofl <tyche> Yea, I could do that, too. HEH HEH HEH <johnc4510> :) <tyche> BTW, did you see kennymc0's explaination concerning the bug stats in the -az channel? <johnc4510> yeah <tyche> There now exists a Glossary page for the UWN and any others that care to reference it. It can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/glossary. This is a work in progress (and I don't expect that it will ever leave that state). <johnc4510> k <johnc4510> tyche: are you doing the ITP ?? <tyche> No, myrtlebeachbums is, as far as I know. Drag him up here and find out. Hee hee <johnc4510> k <boredandblogging> mdke: thanks <boredandblogging> johnc4510: hey <johnc4510> :) <johnc4510> how goes the good life? <johnc4510> lol <boredandblogging> johnc4510: heh <boredandblogging> getting ready to record a podcast <johnc4510> ah <johnc4510> myrtlebeach should be about ready for membership, you want to look at his wiki? <johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaveBush2 <tyche> Note: There are now 13 Glossary terms in this week's UWN. and 18 in the Glossary page <johnc4510> k <johnc4510> kennymc0: ping <johnc4510> i added to the template the brainstorm top 5 of the wk. <johnc4510> i've been adding them myself for the last several issues <johnc4510> i want you to start adding them to your other stat reporting please <johnc4510> all the info is there <johnc4510> tyche: i added a teaser on the forums reaching 1 million threads <tyche> Oh, REALLY! Is that total, or just since they revamped and archived? <johnc4510> i think total <tyche> no link? Or is that "gleaned from various sources". Hee hee <johnc4510> yeah, i just picked it up and wrote it <johnc4510> we should link to the main forum page though <johnc4510> i'll add it <johnc4510> thx <johnc4510> tyche: i'm going to get some lunch then add the welcome and "in this issue" <johnc4510> we're almost there <johnc4510> thx guys <nizarus> johnc4510, we need a solution for wiki links including a space <nizarus> when doing copy past the link will be incorrect <johnc4510> can you give me an example nizarus <johnc4510> ? <nizarus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123#Tunisian Team <tyche> In the case of the ENIS event, I would drop off the #ENIS, etc. <nizarus> when i copy past it the link is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123#Tunisian <tyche> We actually covered the annual seminar on FOSS in Tunisia, too. <nizarus> the correct link is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123#Tunisian%20Team <nizarus> spaces must be replaced by %20 <johnc4510> hmmm <nizarus> tyche, it will be great if the enis event is reported to the UWN too :) <mfm> boredandblogging, Hi! Can I still add something to the UWN123? <mfm> Hey, cool Number! <boredandblogging> mfm: sure <mfm> In the Wiki? or are you working on it? <tyche> nizarus: We've already got something in there on it <nizarus> hi boredandblogging :) <johnc4510> mfm: no ones in the wiki right now <boredandblogging> mfm: just add it to the wiki <johnc4510> boredandblogging: can you help nizarus <johnc4510> not sure i can <mfm> johnc4510, wrong, I am <johnc4510> mfm: lol <nizarus> johnc4510, sorry haven't seen that you are going to lunch :( <johnc4510> np <johnc4510> just not sure what answer i can give you <johnc4510> maybe boredandblogging can help <boredandblogging> nizarus: yeah, the %20 <boredandblogging> whats the problem? <boredandblogging> The %20 aren't showing up? <nizarus> boredandblogging, all links here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123#Tunisian%20Team are broken <nizarus> note that i added %20 to the above link to get it ok for you <nizarus> is there any solution for that problem instead of manually replacing spaces by %20 <boredandblogging> don't use spaces in links? <boredandblogging> which isn't reasonable <boredandblogging> in the browser, the links for fine <nizarus> boredandblogging, these links are automaticly gnerated by the wiki, when the link is in the same page they works <boredandblogging> is that Issue123#Tunisian Team link used elsewhere? <boredandblogging> right, so who would be linking to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123#Tunisian%20Team? <nizarus> and in that section the link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/TeamReporting#Ubuntu-tn at the 4th edition of the annual seminar on FOSS Tunisia <nizarus> should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/TeamReporting#Ubuntu-tn%20at%20the%204th%20edition%20of%20the%20annual%20seminar%20on%20FOSS%20Tunisia <nizarus> and the second one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/TeamReporting#ENIS Event 8.12 <nizarus> should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/TeamReporting#ENIS%20Event%208.12 <nizarus> hard work !! * nizarus have to put this on mind for next reports :) <johnc4510-laptop> mfm: you done adding to the UWN now?? <mfm> johnc4510-laptop, yes <johnc4510-laptop> cool thx <mfm> sorry <johnc4510-laptop> :) <johnc4510-laptop> np <mfm> I was just looking through the contributions to our german version and found some links that didn't appear int the UWN <mfm> they do now ;) <johnc4510-laptop> ah <johnc4510-laptop> thx <nizarus> johnc4510-laptop, can we add more details on "Tunisian Team Events in December" <nizarus> n December, they completed the first of 2 phases of migrating the National Engineering School of Sfax (ENIS) to Ubuntu. This first phase included presentations to students, teachers and technical staff of ENIS[1] and installing ubuntu on 150 PC. <johnc4510-laptop> sure go ahead and add it <johnc4510-laptop> you've got about 5 mins. before i publish <johnc4510-laptop> lol <nizarus> ok <nizarus> done <nizarus> ;) <johnc4510-laptop> ok <johnc4510-laptop> thx * johnc4510-laptop anyone around that can help me with the mail lists ?? <johnc4510-laptop> they seem to be down <johnc4510-laptop> beuno: ping <beuno> johnc4510-laptop, hiya <johnc4510-laptop> hey <johnc4510-laptop> mail list trouble <beuno> ay <beuno> what seems to be the problem> <beuno> ? <johnc4510-laptop> no confirmation on the issue i sent to the -news list <johnc4510-laptop> and i can't get to the admin page <beuno> wierd <beuno> I'm in the admin page <beuno> and your email isn't being held for moderation <johnc4510-laptop> ok, i got to the admin page <johnc4510-laptop> sorry <johnc4510-laptop> don't know what was wrong <johnc4510-laptop> :( <beuno> "the internet" ;) <johnc4510-laptop> yeah <johnc4510-laptop> lol <johnc4510-laptop> thx <beuno> np <johnc4510-laptop> new issue of the UWN is out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123 <nizarus> \o/ <johnc4510-laptop> ok all we're done for another week. thx for a great job :) #ubuntu-news 2009-01-07 <Tumie> there wasn't a UWN this week right? <Tumie> or was that last week? <myrtlebeachbums> Last week. UWN 123 went out on Sunday. <myrtlebeachbums> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue123 <Tumie> thanks, <myrtlebeachbums> NP <Tumie> that means i thought that their was no UWN.. but their was... no NL translation this weak :\ <Tumie> *week #ubuntu-news 2009-01-11 <james_w> rock! <james_w> new fridge mockups :-) <boredandblogging> james_w: yeah, nand is kicking butt <tyche> Morning, kennymc0 <kennymc0> morning <tyche> How goes it? <kennymc0> it goes alright <kennymc0> just finished putting everything that i normally do into the uwn <kennymc0> would have done it last night before i went to bed but it said that johnc4510 was still in it <tyche> Great. Now all we have to do is wait for myrtlebeachbums. <kennymc0> i was working on it while watching saturday night live <kennymc0> with Neil Patrick Harris hosting <tyche> Oh, DEAR. Maybe I should check it, then. Hee hee <kennymc0> :) <kennymc0> ROFL <kennymc0> well i'm going to go get myself some breakfast bbl <tyche> Yea, I'd done a bunch of work yesterday, but there were holes (things I didn't know how to handle). Went out on errands with my wife (and supper), and when I got back johnc4510 had beat me to them ALL. <kennymc0> lol <LirazSiri> Hi, I'd like to try and do the security and package updates for this issue. Who usually handles that? (I'd like to prevent duplicated effort) <tyche> LirazSiri: They're already done for this issue. And the best way to get involved is to get trained. We have certain procedures that help make the job simpler and more consistent. <LirazSiri> tyche: who usually does that? <tyche> If you'd like to get involved, I'd be happy to share my knowledge with you. <tyche> kennymc0 is doing them, at present. <LirazSiri> does he always handle them? <tyche> Since he started, yes. Before that, there have been others including myself <LirazSiri> let's say I want to pick up that role, by what time should I have that ready? <tyche> The whole package that includes Security and Updates is usually done as LATE as possible, to include information on the whole week. The whole package includes not only Security and Updates but Upcoming Meetings and the Statistics. <LirazSiri> statistics such as? <tyche> The work involved in it takes anywhere from 2 to 4 hours, usually. Sometimes longer. <tyche> The Ubuntu Stats include Bug Stats, Translation Stats, and 5-a-day bug stats <LirazSiri> Well, I volunteer to take care of the security and updates section. I've taken a look at the 4 last issues and I think I can handle that. As for training, I propose to prepare the security and updates section for today independently and then submit that to you for review. If it's satisfactory I can begin doing this regulary <LirazSiri> does that sound ok? <tyche> When I started with the UWN, I developed a text file template that we use to help find where the information is, and how to present it. You might be better off letting me go through that with you, so you understand the job. I have no doubt that you can pick up a lot on your own, but it's better to have the whole picture. <LirazSiri> tyche: thanks but I don't want to waste your time unnecessarily. You sent me the template a few weeks ago. What works best for me when I'm learning is to first try and figure out things on my own and then have someone more experienced give me feedback and complete the picture. <LirazSiri> ok? <tyche> LirazSiri: You wouldn't be wasting my time. It's part of what I do. Besides, I'm retired, and my time is my own. <tyche> Also, since I'm only an associate editor, I'd have to get direction from johnc4510 and boredandblogging as to what section(s) you should take over. <LirazSiri> tyche: ok, I'll go and do my homework, and be back when I have something for you to review. I'll also send you wiki text by email (I prepare it in a text editor). <LirazSiri> that's ok, I've talked with Nick and he has urged me to get more involved, so I think we'll figure it out. <LirazSiri> cheers. I'll be back soon * myrtlebeachbums is alive and jumping into UWN 124 now. :) <tyche> myrtlebeachbums: Morning. <tyche> Glad to see you could get up so early. Hee hee <myrtlebeachbums> Good morning. <myrtlebeachbums> Well you know me on weekends tyche ;) <tyche> Yep. That's why I said "up so early". It isn't noon, yet. hee hee <myrtlebeachbums> Exactly! <johnc4510> morning -news <tyche> Yea, but by the time it gets out, it's evening -news. Hee hee <johnc4510> lol <myrtlebeachbums> Is Dan Rather joining our team? <johnc4510> tyche: did you look over the jono piece on good people, great teams <johnc4510> ? <myrtlebeachbums> Bad "Evening News with Dan Rather" joke. <johnc4510> kennymc0: ping <johnc4510> lol <tyche> Naw, we don't aspire that high. With us, we just use all the news that print to fit. <tyche> Yea, I read it over, then you beat me to it. <tyche> Besides, I like yours better. <johnc4510> ah ok <johnc4510> i wasn't sure, the piece was written a bit differently <johnc4510> anyone working on the edubuntu meeting minutes?? <johnc4510> if not i'll jump in there <johnc4510> ?? <johnc4510> brb <johnc4510> back <johnc4510> tyche: ping <myrtlebeachbums> TTL expired in transit ;) <johnc4510> :) <johnc4510> myrtlebeachbums: don't forget to add your credit to the issue :) <myrtlebeachbums> Will do. <johnc4510> k <myrtlebeachbums> Working on the last ITP article now and will post. I'm definitely up for ideas on how to revise the "What Ubuntu Must Do" article, but I like the way the others worked out. Youll see soon. <johnc4510> cool <myrtlebeachbums> ITP pasted in. <johnc4510> thx <johnc4510> ok, the welcome and In this Issue is up <johnc4510> proof readers now appreciated <johnc4510> no pay of course <johnc4510> :) <tyche> *-I'm going through and proofing, and checking for glossary terms now. <johnc4510> lol <johnc4510> great minds <johnc4510> well, mine anyway hee hee <tyche> Thank you for acknowledging the fact . . . that mine is great, I mean. <johnc4510> lol <johnc4510> i took it back shortly after lol <tyche> No, you only TRIED to take it back. Hee hee <johnc4510> ah <boredandblogging> just a reminder to everyone, please don't include wiki-style links in the UWN <boredandblogging> they won't work when copy them for the email and forums <johnc4510> right <tyche> Yep. Part of what the proofing is about is to remove camelbacks <myrtlebeachbums> ITB pasted in. <johnc4510> k, thx * myrtlebeachbums writes this date down because he missed no camelbacks in any articles this week. <johnc4510> lol <boredandblogging> :-) <tyche> ROFL <myrtlebeachbums> I did however seem to forget to click save after telling you I posted ITB. Duh Dave... <tyche> myrtlebeachbums: second entry in ITB, "in order to make them useable for people East Palo Alto." should be "in order to make them useable for people in East Palo Alto." <myrtlebeachbums> Gotcha. Fixing. <tyche> Thanks <johnc4510> myrtlebeachbums: nice job, only minor edits <myrtlebeachbums> Thanks johnc! <johnc4510> boredandblogging: ping <tyche> Why am I <boredandblogging> johnc4510: yo <johnc4510> we ended up with 2 Freescale articles, one ITP and one ION should i leave both in? <tyche> Why am I "Waiting for wiki.ubuntu.com..." <boredandblogging> johnc4510: nah <johnc4510> it saw you coming <boredandblogging> keep the best one <boredandblogging> or merge them <johnc4510> k <tyche> Glossary in. <johnc4510> thx <myrtlebeachbums> Careful - I thought the same thing on the Freescale articles, and after review they do seem to complement each other. <myrtlebeachbums> ...but that's just my opinion. <johnc4510> yeah, i'm going to try and merge them <myrtlebeachbums> Go for it. <tyche> johnc4510: should I add a link to the glossary page I created, for those who might have references outside the UWN to use? <johnc4510> depends on how you handle it i think <johnc4510> lol <rhagge> hello---just testing---don't mind me! <johnc4510> put it in and let me see <johnc4510> please <johnc4510> rhagge: hey <tyche> dantrevino is in there currently <johnc4510> yeah <johnc4510> who's that hee hee <johnc4510> ah, florida member it looks like <tyche> dantalizing, he's in #ubuntu-us <boredandblogging> dantalizing runs the Florida team <johnc4510> ah <johnc4510> loco news maybe then <johnc4510> :) <LirazSiri> tyche: I sent you the practice security & updates section by mail <johnc4510> LirazSiri: hey <LirazSiri> hi john <johnc4510> i saw your earlier conversation with tyche <LirazSiri> ah great <tyche> LirazSiri: Yea, I haven't had a chance to check them, yet. I'm a bit busy right now. <johnc4510> we'd be glad to have you do the stats, meetings and update and security if you want <LirazSiri> Should I send it to someone else? <johnc4510> ? <tyche> Right now, the UWN staff is kinda busy getting the UWN finalized and out. <johnc4510> so they match up with what we have in the issue? <myrtlebeachbums> Sunday afternoon is usually crunch time for the latest UWN. Any other day is probably good. <LirazSiri> johnc4510: I don't know I haven't checked <johnc4510> k <johnc4510> the current stuff is in and should be right <LirazSiri> alright, maybe I should use that for comparison then <johnc4510> that would work great <johnc4510> :) <LirazSiri> I'll just compare my practice run with the actual wiki text and see if it's ok <LirazSiri> alright. <johnc4510> cool <LirazSiri> having done the practice run today, I can commit to doing this every week if you guys will let me <johnc4510> great, what parts did you do exactly? <LirazSiri> the security and updates sections <johnc4510> ok <johnc4510> they need to be done late sat. night or early sunday morning then <johnc4510> to be current <LirazSiri> I'll have to stake a look to see what the statistics and meetings section are about. I don't know anything about how to do that yet, so I can't commit. <johnc4510> ok, look it over <johnc4510> it's not any harder than the other though <myrtlebeachbums> Paging tyche the trainer. One n00b coming up. <kennymc0> the security and updates is a piece of cake <kennymc0> usually only takes about 10 min <tyche> myrtlebeachbums: SegFault . . . paging did not work. LOL <LirazSiri> really? tyche told the whole section usually takes 2-4 hours <kennymc0> if it's just after a release maybe a little longer since there are usually a ton of updates :) <myrtlebeachbums> :) <myrtlebeachbums> Maybe... That's funny kennymc0 <johnc4510> yeah, it varies on time <johnc4510> right after a new release comes out it is usually longer <kennymc0> it can take 2 hours for everything i do if it's just after a release and there are over 100 updates <johnc4510> for a week or two, then settles down <kennymc0> first issue i worked on was just after a release and i had to put in 150 updates total <myrtlebeachbums> That's when you start asking "Isn't there some new guy that wants to join the UWN team that I can pass this off to?" <kennymc0> that was a _TON_ of fun <johnc4510> lol <kennymc0> THAT'S why I got started then <myrtlebeachbums> kennymc0 - have I told you that your joining the team was perfectly timed? :D <kennymc0> it all makes sense now <tyche> Been there, done that, worn the T-shirt . . . out. <LirazSiri> kennymc0: when do you usually work on this stuff? <LirazSiri> Sunday? Sat evening? <kennymc0> i started at about 10 last night <tyche> LirazSiri: that's AZ time <johnc4510> ok i merged the two freescale pieces by just adding the other links and indicating what they were <kennymc0> i did the bug stats translation stats, 5-a-day bug stats, upcoming events and the security updates and stuff <LirazSiri> kennymc0: since you seem to have a bit more experience doing this, maybe I could send you the wiki text by email next Saturday/early sunday? <dantalizing> i'm done editing guys <johnc4510> dantalizing: hi <dantalizing> sorry for the last minute editing <johnc4510> np <dantalizing> morning johnc4510 <kennymc0> ok <johnc4510> what did you add? <LirazSiri> that way if I make any mistakes you can catch them <dantalizing> florida loco news <johnc4510> cool thx <tyche> dantalizing: bookmark the channel. We usually work in here, to avoid confusion. <dantalizing> gotcha <kennymc0> LirazSiri: you can even just post them and i can check them when you have them up <kennymc0> that would probably be fastest <kennymc0> then I could let you know if you did anything wrong and teach you how to fix it :) <tyche> johnc4510: I added the link at the bottom of the Glossary. you can take a look. <johnc4510> tyche: k <johnc4510> tyche: yeah that's ok <johnc4510> thx <tyche> Good. I tried to make it as generic as possible. <johnc4510> right <johnc4510> tyche: add it to the template too please <tyche> Will do. That's an EASY fix <tyche> LoCo News, one camelback and 3 inline links. <tyche> dantalizing: Do you happen to have the information on the Tampa Linux Meetup posted on a wiki or blog page? <dantalizing> the meetup page <dantalizing> one sec <dantalizing> http://www.meetup.com/Tampa-Linux <dantalizing> want me to add it? <tyche> Great, then we can add that link underneath, as the reference point. <johnc4510> i cleaned up the hotlinks <johnc4510> just add the link <tyche> kk. Can do <LirazSiri> when are the bug and translation stats done? if I do them on Saturday evening will that be ok? <johnc4510> tyche: i missed the last hotlink for the global bug jam :( <tyche> I was about to mention that. I'll get it. <johnc4510> k <tyche> I'm in right now. <johnc4510> got to step away for a few, bb shortly <tyche> dantalizing: Thanks for your help and your addition. <dantalizing> guys this doesnt look right : https://launchpad.net/~thelupine and https://launchpad.net/~itnet7 where Lupine and itnet7 sat down with several of us for a mini bug ja <tyche> How about if I pulled the links out and put them underneith, just referencing them with a number, like [1]? <tyche> That would be the easiest fix. Would the sentence read properly then? <dantalizing> i think so <tyche> OK, hold on. <tyche> dantalizing: take a look now. <dantalizing> nice <johnc4510> dantalizing: we can't have any hotlinks in the issue since we email it out and the links don't work <johnc4510> bakc <johnc4510> back <tyche> OK. Now you see why we work in here. Hee hee <dantalizing> johnc4510: gotcha.. i'll remember that <johnc4510> thx <johnc4510> tyche: looks good thx <tyche> NP <johnc4510> i'm going to do some wiki cleanup now <tyche> kk <johnc4510> dantalizing: give me your name and i'll add it to the credits <johnc4510> :) <dantalizing> Dan Trevino <johnc4510> k <dantalizing> thanks <johnc4510> np <tyche> See what happens when you add things to the UWN? You get KNOWN. LOL <myrtlebeachbums> "The Usual Suspects" ;) <tyche> Naw, we're VERY unusual. Hee hee <myrtlebeachbums> Very true <johnc4510> ok, we're looking pretty good, i'll do the spell check and final run thru and publish a little later <johnc4510> thanks folks <johnc4510> great job again <johnc4510> :) <myrtlebeachbums> Thanks johnc4510. <johnc4510> :) <johnc4510> ah, now for a little work in the lazyboy <johnc4510> hee hee <myrtlebeachbums> :) <tyche> Oh, I mis-read that. I thought he said that he was going to do a little work AS a lazy boy. Hee hee <johnc4510-laptop> oooooooooh cut!! <johnc4510-laptop> :) <kennymc0> ok i'm back <kennymc0> modem decided to lose its internet connection for a bit <kennymc0> parents hadnt tightened the coax cable going into the back of it down enough <johnc4510-laptop> :) <johnc4510-laptop> ok, i'm going to release and publish folks thx again!! <johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: ping <kennymc0> boredandblogging: ping <kennymc0> johnc4510-laptop: wants you <kennymc0> :) <johnc4510-laptop> i got like 50 unsubscribe notices from the -news mailing list at 2:00AM this morning. seems kind of strange to have that many at the same time. Wondering if it was a cron job or a hack?? <johnc4510-laptop> boredandblogging: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <tyche> I think you just haven't been keeping up. There have been that number, but they happened over time. <tyche> I've also gotten a bunch of subscriptions. <tyche> Check the dates of the notices <johnc4510-laptop> dates all show 2:00AM this morning <johnc4510-laptop> that's why i was wondering about it <tyche> Hmmm. Strange. <johnc4510-laptop> yeah <tyche> Like I said, I've gotten them, but over time. <tyche> Same with bounce notifications and action needed notifications. <johnc4510-laptop> sure, but this looks odd right off to me <boredandblogging> johnc4510-laptop: sorry <boredandblogging> was getting some food <johnc4510-laptop> np <johnc4510-laptop> you see my above note <johnc4510-laptop> ? <boredandblogging> nah, it probably processes stuff like that in batches <johnc4510-laptop> kk <johnc4510-laptop> just struck me as odd <tyche> WHAT???!!!!??? boredandblogging eats??? When was he allowed to do that!!! Hee hee <johnc4510-laptop> all at once <boredandblogging> i do try to maintain my girlish figure <johnc4510-laptop> lol <tyche> So do I. But now it's a rather FAT girl. LOL <boredandblogging> thanks everyone for UWN #124! <tyche> You're welcome. :-D <boredandblogging> heh <johnc4510-laptop> yep <johnc4510-laptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue124 <LirazSiri> when does the UWN template for the next week go up? (e.g., will it be setup by Saturday night?) #ubuntu-news 2009-01-12 <Tumie> IMPORTANT NEWS: http://blog.philipp-michels.de/?p=133 <james_w> apparently MSN have fixed the problem on their end #ubuntu-news 2009-01-13 <tyche> Re: The Ubuntu Forums - "What we have, here, is a failure to communicate" <tyche> Ah, it's just the LoCo team forums that have a failure to communicate. <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, In the TB meeting, its been decided that we're moving to the Google Calendar. * Pici makes note <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: really? <boredandblogging> lol ok <cody-somerville> rly <boredandblogging> well, that solves 50% of our problems <boredandblogging> ugh, forums are down? <james_w> yeah <boredandblogging> james_w: what happened to it? <james_w> not sure <james_w> they've been down for a while though <boredandblogging> thats not encouraging <tyche> Re: The Ubuntu Forums - "What we have, here, is a failure to communicate" <boredandblogging> tyche: heh <tyche> And it's been down all day. <boredandblogging> and right after we tell everyone about the linux format best support resource award! <boredandblogging> :-P <tyche> Maybe that's what happened. It got slash-dotted <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, sabdfl said to not worry about the bot <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, we'll get it fixed but for now just have a link to the calendar in the topic <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: fair enough <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, can you send me a private message? <Vantrax> from what i hear forums are down to fix database corruption problems from the other day <tyche> It's sad to think that Linux is subject to corruption. Next thing you know it'll be running for office. <cody-somerville> haha <boredandblogging> think this is longest I've seen the forums down <tyche> Where is Paul Newman when we need him. Hee hee #ubuntu-news 2009-01-14 <Vantrax> anyone heard about the Australian NSW government k12 tender? <Vantrax> spec basically means every kid in the NSW system will have a linux netbook. <sladen> [[citation needed]] <Vantrax> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/NSW-issues-200m-PC-wireless-tender/0,130061702,339293637,00.htm https://tenders.nsw.gov.au/commerce/?event=public.rft.showClosed&RFTUUID=F6004F9F-90B3-D71E-C95E6CE7623629C3 <Vantrax> max cost $500AUD, considering the dell mini 9 is $550 at education pricing it basically means no way to bundle MS into the price. Have to go linux <sladen> unless ...Microsoft *pay* AU$50 times $number_ordered for each copy of MS Office <Vantrax> well MS windows and MS office both would have to be free effectively... <Vantrax> the NSW government has been piloting Linux based school labs here and there for a while <sladen> yes/no, it's worth enough to Microsoft that they would not only make any necessary "free" but they would actually pay the contracter/government to install Microsoft stuff so that the contract didn't go elsewhere <sladen> what sadly happens all too frequently is that a government department says "we're going Linux" and Bill Gates gets in his jet and has a "meeting" the next day <sladen> with somebody high-up (like a prime-minister) <Vantrax> yeah, maybe it will be different with a new prime ministeer <Vantrax> where you from sladen <sladen> I'm in the United Kindom at the momnet <sladen> Kingdom; moment <Rinchen> boredandblogging, did you see the follow-up responses about the fridge gcal? <cody-somerville> The ubuntu.com domain sounds interesting <boredandblogging> Rinchen: yes <boredandblogging> Rinchen: the free tools argument has been fair, but the drupal calendars have been a royal pain <james_w> I think you should document what the current issues are, so that you can show people the reasons for moving to something non-free <james_w> and when problems are hit with using google calendar there aren't questions about what moving to google improved <boredandblogging> right <Rinchen> yeah, I would love to use the event repeat module but it has so many problems it would be a disservice to the community <james_w> Rinchen: could you expand on the problems? <boredandblogging> i was wondering if its useful for LoCos to add their irc meetings to the calendar, maybe a separate calendar? <Rinchen> james_w, in simplest terms: a) it has security holes that Kees could drive a bus through, b) it's not available for Drup 6 because it's being rewritten to address those fundamental architectural holes <james_w> Rinchen: ah, I didn't realise Kees had reviewed it <james_w> it was unnamed "security problems" before <Rinchen> james_w, I don't think it did. It was a metaphor you'd get though :-) <james_w> ah <Rinchen> s/it/he <james_w> well, one of the maintainers is on the drupal security team, so it probably doesn't have gaping holes <Rinchen> newz knows the story best but I've gotten the same story from him and elmo <james_w> and currently, only trusted people are able to create events aren't they? <Rinchen> if it were installed, yes that is correct <Rinchen> I wasn't able to get IS to install it though :-( <james_w> it seems a bit silly to me to migrate away from free tools when there are free tools we could either use or fix <james_w> and I was mistaken about the maintainer of the module being on the security team, sorry <cody-somerville> james_w, I dunno if you noticed but Mark asked if maybe it would be a good idea to get google domain applications thingie for ubuntu.com <Rinchen> re: silly. My Drupal experts tell me that event repeat should rock for 6 when it's out but it won't be for a some time yet. It's been difficult to get attention to the Fridge unless it's security related so the going has been slow. :-( <james_w> yeah, I can understand that <james_w> I'm told that the whole calendar system has been overhauled in 6 and is much better <james_w> cody-somerville: I did <boredandblogging> Rinchen: newz had some ideas for doing the calendar stuff after he got from his conferene <Rinchen> yeah, I'm waiting to hear back from newz on those <Rinchen> I haven't poked him about it though <boredandblogging> but I think it would still be the same issue...it would take too long to roll them out <Tumie> Can we change the world? Yes we can! Can we fix it? Yes we can! BOB THE BUILDER :D :D :D <cody-somerville> yes yes #ubuntu-news 2009-01-15 <boredandblogging> Rinchen cody-somerville take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar <boredandblogging> is there anything missing from it? <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, instead of giving folks access to the calendar <cody-somerville> I recommend we give out the calendar's e-mail address <cody-somerville> and then to add to the calendar, they create the event on their calendar and invite our calendar <sladen> blink <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: does that work if they don't have a gmail address and just a regular email address to access google <cody-somerville> yup <cody-somerville> They just need a google account to access Google Calendar <boredandblogging> do we do have to do anything when they invite the calendar? <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: ^^ <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, configurable <nizarus> can I request access for calendar in the name of ubuntu-tn LoCo ? <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: can you walk me through how to do the inviting? <boredandblogging> i'm logged into a different gmail account... <cody-somerville> Create an event <boredandblogging> I've added the fridge calendar <cody-somerville> no need to add the fridge calendar <cody-somerville> Invite a guest using this e-mail address: <cody-somerville> davidhull@example.net <boredandblogging> got it, ok cool <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: thanks, I'll change the instructions to reflect that <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, I get a text message everytime you add an event :) <boredandblogging> hah, yeah, just playing with it <cody-somerville> boredandblogging, I get permissioned denied when I try to edit the calendar page <boredandblogging> i'm logged out and can see it <boredandblogging> oh wait <boredandblogging> sorry <boredandblogging> read that wrong <boredandblogging> thats some weird bug <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: its a right issue <boredandblogging> Rinchen: ping <boredandblogging> bb, got a meeting <Rinchen> boredandblogging, /me on phone calls. Leave msg. Be back in 1 hour <boredandblogging> Rinchen: I edited fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar, cody-somerville can't edit it afterwards <cody-somerville> I couldn't edit it before hand either <Rinchen> read only for me as well <boredandblogging> cody-somerville: I probably edited it at some point <boredandblogging> I justed edited it <cody-somerville> I think it might have to do with openid <Rinchen> back. boredandblogging, cody-somerville - sorted? <boredandblogging> Rinchen: no <Rinchen> ok, the Dr is in. :-) <Rinchen> How can I replicate the issue? <boredandblogging> Rinchen: think if I edit something, no one else can afterwards <boredandblogging> I'm like kryptonite! <Rinchen> boredandblogging, well, I can't edit anything at all <Rinchen> boredandblogging, because I don't have auth <boredandblogging> hmmm <Rinchen> boredandblogging, I think you need to add the ID's on the sharing page of all the fridge editors' google accounts <Rinchen> there is an openid solution from a google partner but it costs $$$$$$$ <boredandblogging> wait, you can't edit anything on the Fridge? <boredandblogging> or just the google calendar? <Rinchen> gcal <Rinchen> where you talking about fridge nodes? <Rinchen> s/where/were <boredandblogging> yeah, we had this issue before, where I would edit something, and no one could edit anything after me <boredandblogging> no one could edit whatever node I edited after me <Rinchen> boredandblogging, oh, ok. Gimme a node that it's happening on <Rinchen> boredandblogging, I suspect it's the team code <Rinchen> boredandblogging, there was that little trick you and newz did which gave you special privs. that was supposed to have been fixed.... <boredandblogging> the google calendar would be an example, because its just embedded html <Rinchen> so I found one that you did and I can edit it <Rinchen> I didn't actually try to submit <Rinchen> but it lets me edit <boredandblogging> try submitting <Rinchen> worked on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1815 <boredandblogging> hmmm <boredandblogging> then I have no clue <Rinchen> I *should* have exactly the same privs as everyone else. Newz is the only one who has admin rights #ubuntu-news 2009-01-16 <cody-somerville> :] <boredandblogging> nixternal: ping <nixternal> boredandblogging: pong? <boredandblogging> nixternal: anything happen with the LoCo db yet? <nixternal> working on it <nixternal> been to busy at work to dedicate a lot of coding hours on it and was planning on getting it done this weekend, but today at work a huge wrench got thrown in to the wheel <boredandblogging> nixternal: no biggie, someone else asked me about it, got me curious <nixternal> ya, I have the LP wrapper done, but we were trying to figure out the most efficient way with it <nixternal> my models got cut in half as we aren't going to have user accounts on it, everything will be through LP with a wrapper back creating classes and db tables for events <nixternal> then the events will connect back to the LP team <boredandblogging> sweet, so its gonna be pretty light and fast <nixternal> light yes, fast no, because LP doesn't know the meaning of fast <boredandblogging> lol, fair enough <nixternal> it's as strong as its weakest link :) <boredandblogging> awesome, looking forward to it #ubuntu-news 2009-01-17 * johnc4510-laptop waves <johnc4510-laptop> tyche: are you working on any of the links? <johnc4510-laptop> if not, i'll start at the top <tyche> Not right now. Later. When my head un-fogs a bit better. I'll get them, though. You don't have to. <johnc4510-laptop> i can start on some of them <johnc4510-laptop> :) <tyche> Up to you. But I usually don't start on them until mid-afternoon, and into the evening. <johnc4510-laptop> awn is strange, occasionally when i reboot it loses an icon <myrtlebeachbums> So I hand over ITB to kennymc0 and you make up for it by giving me more ITP links than usual. I see how you are. ;) <johnc4510-laptop> lol, just the luck of the draw this wk <johnc4510-laptop> :) <tyche> Yep. He wants to keep you active and happy <myrtlebeachbums> NP. I'll have them done before
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