#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-01 <madnick> Unit193: do you want to test it? <madnick> it would be great help <Unit193> The point is that I'm not sure if it will even work <Unit193> It takes way too many reboots to get this working and when I do, I only reboot for power outages (And now it's on an old UPS) <madnick> oh <Unit193> I'll still try if I can get a mostly working Oneiric install <GridCube> charlie-tca, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor <charlie-tca> GridCube: thank you * ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-08 | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ <charlie-tca> Okay, got the meeting minutes out. Good night <astraljava> madnick: If you need something to be tested on real hardware, I should get most of my machines up and running this evening (meaning in 6 to 7 hours) <madnick> astraljava: sweet :) would be great <astraljava> madnick: Okay, gonna have to push it forward a few hours. I had forgotten jussi wants us to go to a soccer game tonight. But it's only some 3 hours delay, so we'll talk again in... UTC 1800-1900? <madnick> okay :> <knome> astraljava, lol, you go watching a game with leather ball(s) with jussi? <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png <madnick> That sorta keeps the same theme all the way to the desktop :P <madnick> plymouth->lightdm->user session <astraljava> knome: Leather balls is what it's all about. Seriously, when you think about it. That's where life begins. :D <madnick> Is it a bug that you must first set properities of the screenshot utility for the panel, then click it? <madnick> !bug help <charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : found a few more mb to save in Xubuntu. We are installing gwibber and gwibber-service by default. This is both images and updates. <madnick> I don't think Im gonna file a bug report, it might be a "feature" :P <madnick> charlie-tca: cannot do much more than this with the current configuration: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png <astraljava> madnick: Not following you. Do you mean there's an applet for the screenshot utility, and it sits in the panel? How can you set the properties, if not by clicking on it? <madnick> astraljava: currently, 11.04 <madnick> you can simply click it <madnick> But on Oneiric you need to right click -> properites, set mode <madnick> then click it again, and do the thing you selected by right clicking <charlie-tca> madnick: right, until Ubuntu straightens out the configuration files first, we get blocked <astraljava> madnick: Every time?! <madnick> astraljava: yes * astraljava faints <charlie-tca> We will want to remove "Guest" before we release <madnick> astraljava: try it out :) <astraljava> madnick: Don't have it installed, yet, but will do later in the evening/night. <madnick> charlie-tca: yep, i was just testing how much there could be done :P <charlie-tca> I had that on my machine until they messed with the files <charlie-tca> I like that better then the pink I get now <madnick> :D <madnick> pink hurts peoples eyes :P <charlie-tca> yup <madnick> It was like rule #1 in website <madnick> design* <madnick> astraljava: do you think i should file it as a bug? <davmor2> madnick: it does mostly cause I poke the designers eyes out for using pink :D <charlie-tca> Well, I think it is supposed to be purple, but it depends on your monitor and video as to the actual color you see <madnick> davmor2: :D <astraljava> madnick: It depends on whether it's against the user experience specs or not (don't really think there are any.) <astraljava> madnick: File it away, it'll be marked as a wishlist if it is. <madnick> Well, it breaks current behavior <astraljava> Right. <astraljava> Okay, I'm off for a couple of hours. I'll ping ya when I get back, so we can talk about what it was I promised to test. :) <madnick> sweet <madnick> have fun! :) <madnick> ill get on making a package for easier testing <charlie-tca> great! I need issues with staying connected today <madnick> dh_make sure is not explianitory :D <micahg> charlie-tca: are you be facetious? <micahg> charlie-tca: that's going away, it's temporary, but bad timing <charlie-tca> about the connection? <charlie-tca> yes <charlie-tca> about gwibber? <charlie-tca> no <charlie-tca> It pulled in today with updates <charlie-tca> and it installed today with a fresh install <micahg> yes, it's now a recommends of indicator-messages <micahg> that will be fixed right after alpha3, but it was bad timing <charlie-tca> I don't know what happened, but Xubuntu images are working and Ubuntu images are broken for now <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg. I knew you would be on top of ti <charlie-tca> s/ti/it <micahg> charlie-tca: we're ok space wise, is it ok to release w/gwibber in alpha3 and release note it as unintentional? <charlie-tca> yup <charlie-tca> That's not a problem <charlie-tca> It just bothered me that the update on this system pulled it in * micahg wonders if kenvandine was trying to get wider testing for gwibber * charlie-tca nods <micahg> charlie-tca: well, it's a recommends of indicator-messages which is a depends on indicator-messages-gtk2, which is a recommends of xfce4-indicator-plugin <charlie-tca> but it shouldn't be a recommends, should it? <charlie-tca> indicator-messages does not need gwibber <charlie-tca> even if gwibber needs it <charlie-tca> That's the kind of thing that makes it hard for all of us "official" derivatives <micahg> no, it should've just been seeded <micahg> and it will be after alpha3 (I have no idea why he didn't just seed it properly now) <charlie-tca> oh, right <charlie-tca> I can think of a lot of reasons, all of which I will keep to myself ;) <micahg> same with xdiagnose, it was a recommends, then a depends, then it got seeded <micahg> BTW, do we want that :) <charlie-tca> It does make troubleshooting xorg easier, doesn't it? <micahg> yes <charlie-tca> Otherwise, we have to have users install it, then gather the information and attach it to their bugs <charlie-tca> I forgot why they removed it though <charlie-tca> it messes something up, for some users <micahg> no, it's seeded on the Desktop CD now <charlie-tca> If it doesn't cause problems, yes, we want it <charlie-tca> Makes bug work much easier <micahg> k, well, I can add it after alpha3 and you can tell me if it breaks anything <charlie-tca> okay <charlie-tca> hm, I have it already on this system <charlie-tca> Does that mess with plymouth, by chance? <micahg> I don't think so, but no idea really <charlie-tca> oaky <charlie-tca> nope <charlie-tca> that's not the problem <charlie-tca> I will keep trying <micahg> BTW, mythbuntu has their own greeter <charlie-tca> nice <charlie-tca> Are they using lightdm? <micahg> yep <charlie-tca> madnick: might be worth looking at? <micahg> still in Unapproved <charlie-tca> makes it harder, then <micahg> err, new <charlie-tca> I have my fingers crossed that when they fix Ubuntu images today, they don't mess up ours <madnick> sure, but I thought you wanted to go with the default greeter? <charlie-tca> madnick is working on one for us. I didn't care if we stayed with the default or customize it, myself. If we had a nice customized version, that would be great. <madnick> ah okay :> <charlie-tca> We are going to have a custom plymouth screen that is fantastic! a new greeter would be nice, but is not a necessity <madnick> with lightdm we could really do something unique <madnick> no idea what tho :D <charlie-tca> We have time to think about it <charlie-tca> Maybe take a look at the wallpapers in Settings -> Desktop, and also on the wiki in <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty and the other artwork pages there <madnick> I read a bit online about dm's, and a often requested feature is to use their own background, but that sortra breaks with multiuser systems <charlie-tca> yes, we can work towards that as a long range goal, but for oneiric, it may not happen <charlie-tca> time is growing short now <madnick> hehe, ubuntu is writing their theme in vala <TheSheep> they only want one or two of them, ever <micahg> that's because the person writing it loves vala <TheSheep> I can understand that customizability is actually against ubuntu's goals <TheSheep> especially with their mac complex <TheSheep> vala is a pretty awesome language for programming <madnick> yes <TheSheep> not sure how it works for design though <charlie-tca> Yeah, I would rather we don't follow that lead <TheSheep> they have been stripping customizability and hardcoding things since quite a while <TheSheep> it's hard to stop once you move in that direction <charlie-tca> Which, in reality, is not a bad thing for beginners in linux <charlie-tca> but, Xfce is about being able to customize, isn't it? * micahg thought the was KDE <madnick> private bool background_animate_cb () <- This I dont think we can do without rewriting source, if we would like to add such things <TheSheep> at some point you realize that your new tablet pc cannot have higher resolution because all your ui would need remaking * charlie-tca thinks "modular", for customisation <TheSheep> even if xfce wanted to go down that path, we can't, because we need to rely on user-provided content and designs <TheSheep> s/xfce/xubuntu <TheSheep> sorry <TheSheep> the punk approach <charlie-tca> I understand, I like the direction we take <charlie-tca> madnick: is that line from the source for lightdm or a config file? <madnick> charlie-tca: well, its not from lightdm, its from a theme, you supply a "binary", the config file however, you cannot do much with <charlie-tca> oh <micahg> we will provide our own config file as well <charlie-tca> This is why I don't do coding today <madnick> Thats what I said about C/GTK last nite <madnick> And you said "don't" :P <charlie-tca> I test, if you give me instructions. It is easier on my poor old brain <charlie-tca> micahg knows more than I do about it. <madnick> micahg: are you working on this? <charlie-tca> what did I say 'don't' to? <madnick> charlie-tca: to modifying lightdm-gtk-greeter.c <charlie-tca> is that the theme or config or ?? <madnick> It is the theme kinda <charlie-tca> If that is the source itself, we should not need to modify it, but if that is the theme, we do. <madnick> I see <charlie-tca> micahg: should we just tell madnick to do what he sees fit now to make it work for Xubuntu? <madnick> I was acctually a bit scared that we were only allowed to modify the config file, because that did not provide much to configure <micahg> charlie-tca: well, anything in the greeter package is available for changing, anything in core lightdm would need approval <charlie-tca> there, madnick ^ ^ ^\ <madnick> awesome <charlie-tca> Is that better? <madnick> yep <micahg> we will also have a custom config file as well for various options that we should override (like no guest session) <madnick> I'll try to produce something "mockup" like, but tomorrow I have to give a short lecture, so I wont be on until later, so maybe tomorrow night i will have something <charlie-tca> Take your time. <madnick> Ubuntus greeter can already hide guest session <micahg> indeed, we're just waiting for a config file we can modify <charlie-tca> mr_pouit appears to have pushed through a couple of changes for us in lightdm, giving us a .conf file and removing guest session. <charlie-tca> Yay! <charlie-tca> madnick: might have to wait until alpha3 releases to see it, but we are gaining <madnick> cool :) <madnick> Is there GTK3? <charlie-tca> for? <charlie-tca> well, yes, GTK3 is out, but Xubuntu will not use it for Oneiric <madnick> okay, so we cannot costumize the current ubuntu theme, we either costumize the the default or make a brand new <madnick> It depends on GTK3 <charlie-tca> Oh, goody <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we putting both gtk2 and gtk3 on the cd? <charlie-tca> oh, make us a new one, for Xubuntu <charlie-tca> if mr_pouit puts gtk3 on the images, we can use that, otherwise, can we use gtk2? <madnick> Problem is UI freeze <madnick> Its quite a big task <madnick> + testing <charlie-tca> We will get a ffe for it. <charlie-tca> or, rather, a ui freeze exception if we have to <madnick> acctually, if i work on this constantly, i should be done before that <madnick> I think it will be fine <charlie-tca> UI and Beta freeze are the 25th of august <madnick> oh 25th, not 15th <madnick> sorry i had misread <madnick> then its cool <charlie-tca> right <charlie-tca> extra 10 days now, huh? <madnick> yeah :D <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do I need to respin the images for lightdm? <charlie-tca> The images from this morning are the alpha3 candidates right now <charlie-tca> micahg: any idea? <charlie-tca> A little help please! <micahg> yeah, I think we do assuming what was uploaded actually works <charlie-tca> How will we know without spinning them? <charlie-tca> I can't mr_pouit to respond at all today <micahg> charlie-tca: upgrade an oneiric desktop? <charlie-tca> got one here to try <micahg> if the guest session is hidden, it should mean it's working <charlie-tca> upgrading now <charlie-tca> 13 new packages, 62 upgrades, lightdm is not one of them <charlie-tca> doesn't look to me like mr_pouit 's changes are in yet <charlie-tca> I can have the images added to the tracker for us <micahg> no, lightdm wasn't uploaded, xubuntu-default-settings was <micahg> should be 11.10.2 <charlie-tca> not in the upgrades <micahg> published 37 minutes ago, so might not have hit the mirrors yet <charlie-tca> Well, crap * micahg figures mr_pouit wanted that change in, but wasn't aware of the 12:00 UTC freeze <charlie-tca> well, images will respin tonight <charlie-tca> replacement pidgin in the upgrades <micahg> 2.9.0 was uploaded last week <charlie-tca> I just installed this one two days ago <charlie-tca> image dated 2011-07-29 <micahg> hmm <micahg> it was uploaded that day :) <charlie-tca> That explains it <astraljava> o/ <charlie-tca> xubuntu-default-settings 11.10.1 <micahg> nope, you want .2 <charlie-tca> not there yet <charlie-tca> Wish I could see madnick's new plymouth screens, too <charlie-tca> OTOH, I can't see the old ones, either <astraljava> madnick: I'm in, again. Just a heads-up. Will still fiddle with these machines for a bit, but just fire away if you got something. :) <madnick> astraljava: sweet <madnick> well, the themes are at <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu <- however, its a "bit" outdated, but not in terms of what it shall do, just graphics + minor changes <astraljava> madnick: Okay, so is that .tar.gz the one I need to fetch? And if yes, then where shall I unpack it? <madnick> astraljava: okay <madnick> Like this: <madnick> Its the tar file, put it in /lib/plymouth/themes/{here} then run: <madnick> sudo update-alternatives --install /lib/plymouth/themes/default.plymouth default.plymouth /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-plymouth/xubuntu-plymouth.plymouth 100 <madnick> then run sudo update-alternatives --config default.plymouth .. then run sudo update-initramfs -u <madnick> Yeap, that should be right (double checked) <madnick> astraljava: i need to reboot, i be back in 30 seconds <astraljava> Cool, thanks! I'll report back when I get to that stage. <madnick> astraljava: awesome, thanks for doing this :) <charlie-tca> madnick: you changed the names? <madnick> charlie-tca: yep, i put xubuntu in the name so people shall know what it is <charlie-tca> Is that why I can't make it work? <madnick> charlie-tca: if you had the old files, it should work anyways <madnick> If you mixed the new with the old, then it will not work <charlie-tca> I had a folder named madnick instead of xubuntu-plymouth <madnick> okay, but you were using madnick.tar.gz right? then that should not be a conflic <madnick> conflict* <madnick> charlie-tca: i uploaded this last night, if you have not downloaded since last night, you are not effected <charlie-tca> that doesn't work with the update commands <madnick> charlie-tca: if you installed the "Manual" way, and have not restored previous files, it will not work to use the update command <charlie-tca> Oh, I see <madnick> i need more screens :P Im testing the changes i made to the DM on a netbook :( <madnick> charlie-tca: hm, could you found out what version of the greeter we are using on the images? <madnick> I have no idea how to do that <madnick> (the ones with the config file) <charlie-tca> How do I make it go to auto mode? <madnick> charlie-tca: you set a higher precedence <madnick> than 100 <madnick> or lower, i dont remmeber <madnick> Let me check <madnick> yeah lower, try 50 <charlie-tca> I will try it <charlie-tca> Um, until they quit making changes, I don't what version it will end up as <charlie-tca> well, at least we don't hang anymore if no session is entered. It just loops back to the login screen now <madnick> okay, well, i guess i could use the default greeter and build on that, shouldnt be too many changes <madnick> knome: do you have any ideas for a DM theme? <charlie-tca> Wonder if we should perhaps use an Xfce in the background ? <madnick> the mouse? <charlie-tca> no, the letters "Xfce" <madnick> ah <charlie-tca> If you look in Sessions and Startup, there are 4 display manager screens listed that worked with GDM <charlie-tca> Not sure they are still valid for us, but they give you an idea, anyway. <charlie-tca> You can preview them, maybe <madnick> yep <madnick> Should be keep the position of the login in the middle? or something closer to this: <madnick> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o1flLfTEanU/Th3TpoGpcBI/AAAAAAAABFg/oRyhXzQ22RU/s1600/unity+greeter+1.png <madnick> we can also animate stuff <madnick> perhaps a detail of a background, like a bird in the current background for example <charlie-tca> We could put the mouse logo on the right? <madnick> Yes <charlie-tca> That ties it to us and Xfce at the same time <charlie-tca> I like the offset <charlie-tca> but I am not a good art critic, either. <charlie-tca> I don't know what the reason for centering is. It used to be offset, centered towards the screen bottom <charlie-tca> Now, they always put it centered on the screen <madnick> I can try some stuff out and get some comments <madnick> ill look into a xfce logo <astraljava> Aaaahhhahahaha!!! I accidentally attempted to install Fluxbuntu. You know, the sole release from 2007. *sigh* <madnick> :D <charlie-tca> madnick: could always grab the logo from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork and blow it up <astraljava> Damnit, so glad GNOME2 is going away. I _really really_ loathe it when newly-opened dialogs don't have focus in the only field that can receive input. <madnick> charlie-tca: oh you meant like that, i thought you wanted a pure XFCE logo :P <charlie-tca> Depends on what looks best * astraljava bursts out in tears <astraljava> All my .isos are x86_64, and the test hardware is a 32-bit system. :( <astraljava> madnick: Busy? Can we do this tomorrow? I really can't waste 700MB of my 3GB montly quota... <astraljava> monthly* <charlie-tca> ouch <charlie-tca> Want me to mail one? <astraljava> Well, maybe not. I have an older one on the desktop machine. It shouldn't have changed that much, so that a zsync would eat too much of that quota. <charlie-tca> could be as much as 50%, though <astraljava> Yeah, well, I won't be making the decision on the landline in a week or so anyway, so I'm looking at buying 1GB additional packages anyway. <astraljava> But 700MB would eat one package almost totally, so... <madnick> :) <madnick> No rush <madnick> charlie-tca: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png something like that? (ofcourse, not at ALL like that, but that placement of stuff?) <charlie-tca> something like that, yeah. <charlie-tca> although the xubuntu bothers my eyes, for some reason <madnick> its "glowing2 <charlie-tca> What if it was above the login prompt? <charlie-tca> or maybe it is too bright? <madnick> yeah, we need the artists on this :P <charlie-tca> I agree <astraljava> charlie-tca: Target was 44.3% complete... :-/ Oh well, 1GB is only 1.90 â¬ <astraljava> It's still 40+ % better than downloading the whole thing. * astraljava laughs at the censored version of Children of Bodom's In Your Face. <knome> madnick, DM? <madnick> knome: display manager :) lightdm theme <knome> hmm, do you have a shot of what we have currently? <madnick> knome: i can fix that :) <knome> sure, but can i see what we have now? :) <madnick> yes i meant i can fix an iamge of that :D <knome> aha <knome> right <knome> good ;) <knome> thanks, that would be nice <knome> i think i'm having a not-working login <knome> that's why i'm asking <knome> not-working as in not looking as should <madnick> ok <madnick> here: <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/current.png <madnick> thats the current <knome> ouch <knome> :D <madnick> acctually thats a bit costumized by me <knome> are we sticking with the list-style? <madnick> to use the droid font <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png <madnick> thats what it looks like now <knome> mmh <charlie-tca> What we have is a plain background with a login in the center <madnick> I changed to droids + background <knome> yeah <knome> madnick, what about the list? <knome> madnick, sticking with that? <madnick> i dont know <knome> madnick, what do you think? <knome> i personally might even prefer the textfield more, but for most users, i think the list is optimal <madnick> I think we should do a good version of this: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png <knome> hmm <madnick> Like the logo <madnick> And to the left <knome> i'm wondering if it looks awkward to first have the plymouth theme aligned to centre, then changing it to this <madnick> oh <madnick> didnt think of that <knome> that's not really consistent :) <knome> yeah <knome> so if we don't want to do something completely different, let's just center-align the stuff <madnick> okay <madnick> hm <madnick> if you have a nice idea, i could just implement whats needed to make that possible <madnick> I cannot do graphics <madnick> I dont think that the current box looks nice <madnick> and the computer screen <madnick> it looks a bit "off" <madnick> Maybe we could use the mouse? :) <knome> why don't we just remove that <knome> why don't just use the logo as in the plymouth theme <knome> :) <madnick> yep! <madnick> do you think that its too bright? <madnick> the logotype* <knome> what we have in plymouth, no <knome> that's how i originally designed it <madnick> :> <madnick> So basically, hide users, use the xubuntu logo instead of computer, and keep it in the middle? <madnick> not animate anything? <knome> i don't know about list/textbox <madnick> I had a (maybe dumb) idea, that if we used the foresty image, we could animate a bird, rotation is not a problem programmatically <madnick> knome: okay <knome> maybe use the list <knome> for the password input screen, use the same style as in plymouth pw-input, but naturally lose the progress bar <knome> about the list itself, i'm not sure what would look best yet <knome> i'll have to look at that later today or tomorrow <knome> pleia2? <madnick> okay <madnick> sounds good <micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, aisleriot will be broke in alpha3 <charlie-tca> yup, I figured that, since it is still broken <micahg> charlie-tca: gilir filed a bug for the gwibber issue if you want to track it, bug 819519 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 819519 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Gwibber installed on Xubuntu/Lubuntu ISO (indicator-messages recommends)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819519 <astraljava> Uhhh... now I understand the pink creepiness you guys were talking about. <charlie-tca> pretty, huh? <madnick> :D <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg <charlie-tca> I'm guessing they fixed the wiki again. It is very slow again <astraljava> whee! Yay for wiki sluggishness! <charlie-tca> It was good for a few weeks now. <charlie-tca> Got to give them credit, a few weeks of working right in 5+ years is something! <madnick> wow, i stumbled accross a really wierd error <charlie-tca> Really? There is such a thing? <madnick> "No LIGHTDM_TO_SERVER_FD environment variable" <- see, should there be one? <madnick> :D <charlie-tca> I don't know <astraljava> madnick: Not seeing the splash while booting, but there is a splash when going down. While coming up, my monitor clicks a few times, though, so it's definitely trying to do something. <madnick> astraljava: okay, alot of people reports this thing, but do you know if you had a boot splash before you tried my script? <astraljava> madnick: Ahh... sadly, I don't. I didn't watch the screen when it booted up the first time. That should be an easy change, though, right? Just reverting the alternatives? <madnick> yep <astraljava> Let me try that. <madnick> :) <astraljava> Nope, the same clicks, but no splash. <madnick> astraljava: what drivers are you using? <astraljava> madnick: i915 <madnick> and they are installed / supported? <astraljava> That's installed by the installer. No idea whether it's supported or not. <astraljava> Hmm... found a bug already. Can't assign a keyboard shortcut for a new command. <madnick> plymouth seem to be hard to get working in all cases <madnick> alot of people getting "blank" screens <madnick> It requires fiddeling with settings to get stuff working :( <charlie-tca> yup <astraljava> I can only imagine. <charlie-tca> That's been a problem for a long time with plymouth <astraljava> Too many things still require a lot of fiddling. Like for one, spotify on my two-screen setup wants to be maximized all the time. Nothing I do makes a difference. It's either on this monitor or the other, but covering up the whole space. Even occupying the space normally used by the panels. <madnick> Cannot get pass this error, i cant just random set an fd :D <madnick> They dont have an IRC channel either <charlie-tca> that in lightdm? <astraljava> Did you try #ubuntu-devel yet? Could give some pointers. Seems like they've died down for the night, mostly, though. <charlie-tca> Talk direct to rancell if he is in <pleia2> knome: *waves* <micahg> charlie-tca: on vacation I think <charlie-tca> madnick: Robert Ancell is the developer for lightdm, he hangs out in either #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-devel, I can't remember which one <charlie-tca> great <madnick> thanks, ill look that up tomorrow, for now: workaround :P <madnick> alot of environment variables are missing, not just lightdm's <madnick> Ill investigate <astraljava> Goddamn that thing is lightning fast! <astraljava> On a Pentium4 even! <micahg> what thing? <astraljava> Xubuntu oneiric. <micahg> cool <astraljava> Seriously, takes like 10 seconds to boot, and 2 to shutdown. <astraljava> And we're talking ancient hardware. <astraljava> I'm sooo going to convert all my other machines, except the Studio desktop. :) <astraljava> And the test comps, for other dists. #xubuntu-devel 2011-08-02 <Unit193> Anyone else get two options of Xubuntu Session today? <charlie-tca> fresh install or after running updates? <Unit193> Updates <Unit193> Daily live with updates that is <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: We get two sessions now for Xubuntu after the xubuntu-default-settings update <Unit193> One is the XFCE theme <charlie-tca> file a bug for it against xubuntu-default-sessions. We will need the bug report for the qa tracker <Unit193> Do you get it too though? <charlie-tca> I haven't done any updates since the change was done <Unit193> Anything you want me to put in it? LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options <Unit193> And file agenst xubuntu-default-settings <charlie-tca> yes, and add "after the upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" <Unit193> Bug 819585 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 819585 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options after upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819585 <charlie-tca> Thank you <Unit193> Only thank me if it's valid and helpful :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot?action=diff&rev2=23&rev1=22 <charlie-tca> it's helpful <mr_pouit> o hai <mr_pouit> yeah, sorry, I wasn't aware of the freeze (and I received the announcement mail a few hours later) <mr_pouit> yeah, well, default.desktop is supposed to be handled in a special way in lightdm, but apparently it's not the case if there are two xubuntu sessions :/ <Unit193> I'll get th[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Ce logs tomorrow (5am now and I need sleep) <charlie-tca> Good morning <charlie-tca> Alpha3 images to test today. <madnick> http://pastebin.madnick.se/paste.php?id=4e3806fb0a746 <madnick> :( <madnick> Ok, this is what I made it out to look like: <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default.png <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default2.png <madnick> Thats using only the new config files <madnick> Are the new images complete with the lightdm config file? <charlie-tca> no <charlie-tca> mythbuntu images should have their new config file. ours are a bit of a mess right now <madnick> okay <charlie-tca> https://launchpad.net/bugs/819585 now has logs from today's live session <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 819585 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options after upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" [Medium,Triaged] <micahg> charlie-tca: someone uploaded a new version of gnumeric w/out goffice, if we respin xubuntu, it'll break <charlie-tca> I sure wish they would stop doing that <charlie-tca> Is it part of the that sync that should not have happened? <micahg> no <micahg> let's move this to -release <charlie-tca> yes <charlie-tca> We have an install icon on the live desktop now <charlie-tca> micahg: bigger problem than just pulling in gwibber <charlie-tca> bug 819614 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 819614 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-indicator-plugin pulls in lots of unnecessary packages (dup-of: 819519)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819614 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 819519 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Gwibber installed on Xubuntu/Lubuntu ISO (indicator-messages recommends)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819519 <micahg> charlie-tca: that's due to gwibber <davmor2> charlie-tca: that was a temporary work round so gwibber got on the cd it was missing, so if it isn't meant to be on xubuntu then it should be removed when it moves to the ubuntu seed but check with kenvandine <charlie-tca> I sure like the way Ubuntu temporary workarounds make more work for us, but our workarounds have to make sure they don't touch what ubuntu needs <GridCube> madnick: i like the new greetings you made :D <davmor2> charlie-tca: I don't think it was done intentionally honest ;) <davmor2> charlie-tca: ken is on ubuntu-devel feel free to flame him :D <davmor2> charlie-tca: what does xubuntu use for twitter and stuff? <micahg> davmor2: nothing until now, now we have pidgin-microblog :) <charlie-tca> pidgin <charlie-tca> We have never used gwibber <davmor2> charlie-tca: I've let ken know for you on #ubuntu-desktop <micahg> davmor2: he already knew as I subscribed him to the bug <charlie-tca> Thanks <davmor2> micahg: trust me I know how many bugs he is dealing with right now irc is quicker :) <charlie-tca> davmor2: the biggest issue I see is that it also caused all of us already running oneiric to get gwibber installed too <charlie-tca> and that is not so easy to fix by changing seeds <micahg> huh? <charlie-tca> huh? what? <micahg> oh, wait <micahg> I forget normal people don't run aptitude :) <davmor2> charlie-tca: feel free to let ken know I've done my bit and let him know that it got installed :) <micahg> yeah, people will be stuck with it <charlie-tca> Every computer running oneiric with indicators now has gwibber and gwibber-service <micahg> unless they run apt-get autoremove <charlie-tca> It is not removing it <micahg> charlie-tca: won't remove it until indicator-messages doesn't recommend it <davmor2> charlie-tca: it won't currently they'll need to remove the recommends <charlie-tca> See, it is not so much a matter of "fixed it to work on the Ubuntu images." <charlie-tca> It really is much bigger than a simple "got it on the cd" <charlie-tca> There is a big difference between an installation of oneiric and the live session now <micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, I got the list of users back when I installed unity <charlie-tca> Yes, because lightdm has been set up specific to Ubuntu now <charlie-tca> The provision for anyone else to use it is not there yet <micahg> charlie-tca: no, I just need to seed accountsservice if you want the list back <charlie-tca> let's seed it then <micahg> k, after alpha3 :) <charlie-tca> But that still won't get us a default session working right <micahg> I thought mr_pouit's upload fixed that <charlie-tca> nope <micahg> hmmm <charlie-tca> we now have two xubuntu sessions, one of which is ours and one is xfce defaults <charlie-tca> neither one gives the right live session <charlie-tca> bug 819585 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 819585 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options after upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819585 <charlie-tca> but we are gaining. We now *have* a live session, and you can install from it <charlie-tca> You just have to know to use "ubuntu" as the user name, nothing goes in password, and choose the bottom Xubuntu session <charlie-tca> which I will put in the release notes <micahg> charlie-tca: you'll get the user list after I seed accountsservice (I wonder if it will auto-login like it should) <charlie-tca> But that will be after alpha3 is released, right? <micahg> yep, unless you want a respin <charlie-tca> it's alpha3, they should expect a problem or two? <micahg> your call <charlie-tca> If we knew it would fix the multiple xubuntu session thing and the auto-login part, then I would. Otherwise, let's just wait <charlie-tca> It isn't that hard to login now, and if you don't know what user name and password you used, maybe you should not be using oneiric. <mr_pouit> bah, this is extremely boring <charlie-tca> huh? <charlie-tca> what is? <mr_pouit> #819585 is a lightdm issue imho <mr_pouit> (yeah, sorry, out of context) <charlie-tca> We seem to have many bugs against lightdm now. Is there anything we can do to fix them? <charlie-tca> We get the right session with all the pieces after installing, but the live session is really messed up <charlie-tca> It seems to be pulling in a combination of xfce and xubuntu again <charlie-tca> if you log in to the wrong session first <mr_pouit> it's because lightdm takes 'default.desktop' instead of 'xubuntu.desktop' as the real session name <charlie-tca> I get a different session when I log to the first xubuntu session, logout, then login the the second xubuntu session <mr_pouit> so DESKTOP_SESSION=default instead of DESKTOP_SESSION=xubuntu gets propagated to the environment <charlie-tca> much different than logging straight to the second session <mr_pouit> and picked up by some xsession scripts <mr_pouit> so XDG_CONFIG_DIRS end up containing /etc/xdg/xdg-default/ instead of /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu <mr_pouit> thus the different look, because it searches for default xfce settings in the wrong folder <mr_pouit> btw, has something been done for gnumeric? <mr_pouit> mmh <mr_pouit> ah, micahg uploaded goffice :) <charlie-tca> yeah, we added goffice, so if we respin, it should be okay <micahg> mr_pouit: I sent an e-mail to the uploader of gnumeric <charlie-tca> Should we go ahead and add accountsservice and respin to see what that fixes or breaks? <mr_pouit> micahg: I bet he didn't know gnumeric was seeded by xubuntu =] <charlie-tca> We have a good xubuntu live session if you login to the second session on starting the desktop cd <micahg> mr_pouit: he might not have been checking for seeded packages at all, idk, but he promised to be more careful <mr_pouit> micahg: okay, thanks for taking care of that. I think the real issue is there's no easy way to check that... <mr_pouit> (or, at least, easy and advertised ;D) <micahg> right, I have an open bug to write a tool that checks the tasks <micahg> which would get us 98% of the way there <charlie-tca> I suppose anyone not reading the release notes is going to be very upset with what they get in Alpha3 <mr_pouit> well, all previous alphas have been more or less broken because of lightdm, haven't they? <charlie-tca> Yup <mr_pouit> so people won't be more upset :p <charlie-tca> ever since Ubuntu added it <charlie-tca> true statement <charlie-tca> It seems to be working quite well, other than getting logged in <charlie-tca> If they insist on filing bugs for using the wrong session, we can sign them off invalid for not reading release notes? <madnick> knome: cannot directly use the "textbox" image, we can color the current one however <madnick> well, unless we make a special case theme for that only <charlie-tca> micahg: so, the seed changes are done and will be in the next respin, gnumeric and goffice will also update? <micahg> charlie-tca: I didn't change anything yet <charlie-tca> and it is only tuesday <charlie-tca> let's do it and respin then <micahg> charlie-tca: what do you want me to add? accountsservice, anything else for alpha3? <charlie-tca> We can pick up the user list, goffice, gnumeric, sudoku, what else? <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything else we can do to make lightdm work? <micahg> we're stuck with gwibber unless another upload of indicator-messages happens <charlie-tca> micahg: as far as I know, that's it <micahg> mr_pouit: depends or recommends on accountsservice (I"m think recommends) <micahg> charlie-tca: did you want xdiagnose? <charlie-tca> sure, I think <charlie-tca> also want pastebinit <micahg> right, but for now or after alpha 3? <charlie-tca> oh, I guess after is fine <charlie-tca> we are in freeze now, so we should only do what we really need, right? * micahg thinks xdiagnose should wait as well <micahg> yep <charlie-tca> yep, xdiagnose is not a priority <charlie-tca> but we should be able to do gnumeric, goffice, and accountsservice <charlie-tca> Those are big for us <micahg> k, will upload a new meta in a few minutes <charlie-tca> I will order a respin in what, an hour? <micahg> hour and a half if I get it uploaded in the next 30 minutes <charlie-tca> Okay, I will give it two hours then <micahg> oh, should I drop aisleriot for alpha3 or leave it broke? <charlie-tca> They ain't gonna fix it yet, huh? <charlie-tca> let's drop it, it will cut down on fake reports <micahg> we're waiting on a new upstream release with the license fixed <charlie-tca> I see. Well, we can put it back when it is working, right? <knome> madnick, can't use it with what, lightdm? <knome> madnick, could we just add that image as some kind of background image, and add a 100% transparent box on top of it? <micahg> charlie-tca: do we need to check with skaet before I upload? <charlie-tca> What are we uploading, just accountsservice? <micahg> no, just the meta <charlie-tca> courtesy check, yes <micahg> or do we own our CDs <charlie-tca> I don't think we own much, TBH <micahg> by own I mean can respin when we wnat <charlie-tca> Got permission, go ahead, micahg <charlie-tca> I can request the respins, but have to have them push the button <micahg> k, it'll be a few more minutes for the meta (this takes forever) <charlie-tca> no problem <charlie-tca> I have worked pretty hard to get Xubuntu in a position that when I request things now, I usually get it <micahg> um, I just updated it and it didn't pick up accountsservice <micahg> ah, branch scaner didn't get to it yet <charlie-tca> okay, respin happens in 1.5 hours <charlie-tca> all images <micahg> oops, pushed to my branch, not the main one..I hope I make it... <charlie-tca> heh <charlie-tca> What a deal... Just trying to really improve things, too. :) <micahg> yeah, I don't think we'll make it, one more hour most likekly <micahg> actually, I shouldn't say that, idk exactly how this all works yet <charlie-tca> No problem. I will order the respin when you tell me everything is ready <madnick> knome: i am afraid that is not possible without modifying the greeter, it should probably be possible to use a gtk theme also, however i cannot get lightdm to do that <charlie-tca> might be better to try that after alpha3, we just added the user list <madnick> I find it really hard to find documentation about lightdm <micahg> k, meta uploaded <charlie-tca> madnick: that's because there is very little <charlie-tca> madnick: have you seen http://people.ubuntu.com/~robert-ancell/lightdm/reference/ <charlie-tca> madnick: also some good stuff in http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/2010/07/lightdm.html <charlie-tca> madnick: and I also have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LightDM <charlie-tca> Does that help at all? <charlie-tca> It is all I seem to know of for lightdm <madnick> well, ive seen them but thanks :) <madnick> what im looking for is: <madnick> How to use a GTK theme, hm i guess that is all :P <madnick> charlie-tca: ive modified as much as i could <madnick> using the glade file, and the configs: <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default.png <madnick> But I dont think its enough <charlie-tca> Thanks for trying. We will need some of the broken stuff fixed too, I think <charlie-tca> I like that <charlie-tca> did you get the logo in the lower left to tone down? <madnick> nope, but it is scacled <micahg> charlie-tca: k, meta is building, but we missed the start of the publisher run, idk if it'll still make it in or need to wait for the next one <charlie-tca> or lower right, I guess. <charlie-tca> micahg: Okay, I will wait and see. Let me know when to respin. * micahg hopes this actually helps :)( <charlie-tca> heh, me too <charlie-tca> Well, it has to, if we get a user name in the list <charlie-tca> I already duped a bug report for no autologin to live session <charlie-tca> I will go work on other things, since I know both desktop images did work <micahg> well, hopefully 2 less release notes for xubuntu :) <charlie-tca> Every one counts! <ochosi> madnick: heya <ochosi> madnick: just a quick comment (might be off again for tonight pretty quickly), i think it would be cool if the box with the username etc wouldn't be plain grey, if you can tweak that that would be great. either something translucent (e.g. black shadowy half-transparent box?) or a darker color could go well with the bg-colors <madnick> ochosi: i will see what i can do :) <madnick> The problem is what layer im gonna end up adding to <ochosi> madnick: okeydokey, maybe we can also start out with mockups <madnick> ochosi: have you seen the plymouth stuff? <madnick> I think you were on vacation? <ochosi> yup, just retourned <ochosi> so no, haven't seen that <ochosi> link <ochosi> ? <madnick> 1 sec <ochosi> sure np <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/ <madnick> the ogg files <madnick> mainly <ochosi> looks pretty sazzy :) <ochosi> i like it <madnick> good <madnick> :) <ochosi> the knight-rider effect can't really be transformed into something else, can it? <ochosi> i mean the white bar going left and right <madnick> Well, anything can be done, we had it different before <charlie-tca> what if it were black instead of white? <madnick> 1 sec <ochosi> hm, maybe black would be strange because the logo and font are in white <madnick> ochosi: had it rebouncing before <madnick> But that was not so nice <ochosi> hm, i see <ochosi> maybe we can do something like a spinner? <madnick> we get no real "progress" data as we do for fsck <madnick> if you'd like <madnick> you can make something taht i can use <ochosi> that would feel more natural to me <ochosi> because it's "endless" <ochosi> what do you need for that? <ochosi> just a mockup? <madnick> yep <ochosi> ok, thing i can get around to that, maybe tomorrow <ochosi> or at least in the upcoming days <madnick> im not great with colors or stuff like that :( <ochosi> np, what you've done up to now looks great <madnick> knome did all of the graphics <ochosi> and i'm happy i'm not the only one anymore doing artwork around here :) <madnick> :P <charlie-tca> heh, we are trying to add to the contributors :) <madnick> i meant, for this plymouth <ochosi> mhm <TheSheep> is it normal that mouse doesn't work in lightdm? :) <charlie-tca> no <charlie-tca> mouse works here in it, on all images and installs * charlie-tca has both usb only and ps/2 only mice, too <charlie-tca> wait <astraljava> charlie-tca: Can you try whether it works the same way for you than it works for me; try to add a new key shortcut, can you actually add a key combo for the command? <madnick> ochosi: i looked at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Breezy?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_logo.png <madnick> but it was animated, was that what you had in mind? <charlie-tca> TheSheep: no, all mice should just work in lightdm <TheSheep> charlie-tca: I see, disconnecting the tablet helped <charlie-tca> Usually when mine doesn't, I have to reboot and it will <charlie-tca> astraljava: let me try <ochosi> madnick: yeah, i think there's a spinning/running mouse somewhere as a login splash-screen in xfce/xubuntu <madnick> ochosi: yep but i was told not to use it because it was old <ochosi> a-ha <ochosi> "old" in what way? <madnick> I dont know :P <ochosi> hehe <ochosi> i see <ochosi> well we can talk about that again <ochosi> i'm not sure it's necessary that the logo itself moves <charlie-tca> astraljava: it added it <charlie-tca> Let me try a fresh oneiric <ochosi> madnick: a very clean circle underneath the logo/font would work as well and be cleaner in a way <astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay, then it was just a glitch in my yesterday's install. <charlie-tca> let's see what a new install <charlie-tca> does <madnick> ochosi: :) <charlie-tca> ochosi: is that the mouse running in the circle of friends? <charlie-tca> we killed that logo <TheSheep> I loved it <madnick> do you think we should have something specific at boot/shutdown? to distingish them? <ochosi> charlie-tca: ah, now i get what you mean with "old". true. <ochosi> madnick: maybe, i <ochosi> i'll try to think of it a bit <ochosi> all of this started pretty much as i left <ochosi> so i'm at square one here <madnick> :P <madnick> ochosi: you also got a vid from a real computer screen from the live cd, so you can see how it looks like with a normal resolutions <madnick> its a bit wider <charlie-tca> astraljava: works great here on fresh install from today <charlie-tca> ochosi: I did suggest looking at the xfce splash screens, too <charlie-tca> They used to have a running mouse that was nice <ochosi> mhm <ochosi> well after having seen the bar that moves back and forth i really think we should go for something else there <ochosi> be it a running mouse or a spinner <ochosi> madnick: yeah thanks, i looked at all the stuff there now. great you put that together! <charlie-tca> I can agree with that. Maybe give it some thought <ochosi> yeah, i'm pretty sure we'll come up with something nice <charlie-tca> micahg: do we know anything yet? <charlie-tca> ubuntu just started a full respin, so it will be a while for us now. <madnick> is there some special purpose for the thick lines in the accessability and shutdown icon things? <madnick> in lightdm <astraljava> charlie-tca: Right, will have to try again tomorrow, then. Thanks! <charlie-tca> madnick: carry over of the icons used by Untiy <charlie-tca> s/untiy/unity and Ubuntu <madnick> okay <charlie-tca> It should be changable for us. <madnick> it is <madnick> its stock icons <madnick> set in the glade file <madnick> But I really wonder, if this is what they call "themable" <madnick> seems worse than gdm <madnick> oh.. i forgot to talk to the developer :( <charlie-tca> heh, and another person finds the changes made by Ubuntu miserable to work around <davmor2> charlie-tca: it's not the changes Ubuntu make, it's the lack of changes you guys make honest ;) /me counts to 3 before hearing charlie-tca's head explode <micahg> charlie-tca: I think we're good <charlie-tca> Okay, thanks, micahg <charlie-tca> will go for the respin now <charlie-tca> davmor2: honest, lightdm worked great for a week before Ubuntu touched it <davmor2> charlie-tca: I blame the lightdm-gtk-greeter or whatever it is called, I can't even change to the unity-greeter and without it lightdm doesn't go at all :( I liked the unity-greeter too it was nice <charlie-tca> Well, glad I ain't the only one fighting it :) <charlie-tca> Maybe it is just easy to blame Ubuntu. It can't all be their fault, right? <charlie-tca> Besides, it really is Ubuntu that allowed Xubuntu to exist at all! <micahg> charlie-tca: I'll be afk for several hours, but will check backscroll later tonight <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg <madnick> gah, i wish we used the webkit engine :P just tried some stuff out, its wonderful :D <madnick> seems thats deleted from oneiric? <charlie-tca> probably. There have been many changes in the last week or two. <madnick> i give up for tonight :P when is the next meeting? <madnick> sorry for asking that, forgot there is a website <charlie-tca> It's also in the topic <charlie-tca> August 8 <madnick> :) <madnick> Does GTK3 break something in Xubuntu? <madnick> Reason Im asking is <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/unity.png <madnick> Is very possible, if we had GTK3 <Unit193> Xfce uses GTK2, but I think we may ship with both? The theme will support it anyway <madnick> oh sweet :) <madnick> Don't know why Ubuntu hardcoded the Ubuntu fonts and Ubuntu logos into the source <Unit193> Wait for another to make sure. Because it's Ubuntu :P <madnick> hehe, its also written in Vala :P <madnick> But Vala is easy, sorta like C# <charlie-tca> madnick: gtk3 should not bread anything <madnick> I got a little check when i saw string? <madnick> "string?" :) <madnick> But then i got the reference and saw what it meant <madnick> charlie-tca: im sorry, "bread", im not familar with the expression :( <charlie-tca> madnick: gtk3 should not break anything <charlie-tca> sorry <charlie-tca> keyboard got confused <madnick> sorry, i truly did not understand, i wasnt correcting you <charlie-tca> no problem. spelling errors happen <madnick> But do we want a theme like this one? <madnick> Its already running on my machine, so it works <charlie-tca> gtk3 should work, but there is apparently a difference in graphics in gtk2 and gtk3 <madnick> okay, because, without writing a greeter <madnick> We cannot do much things <madnick> And if this works, then its very good <charlie-tca> Write a greeter if you need to, we can have one named xubuntu-greeter, can't we? <charlie-tca> or do things the easiest way <madnick> yep we can, but if we want the unity greeter is pretty nice imo <charlie-tca> mr_pouit does not plan to put gtk3 on the cd if we don't have to. <madnick> hm, difficult this :P <charlie-tca> okay <madnick> Ill
{'channel': 'xubuntu-devel', 'month': 8}