#kubuntu 2005-11-01 <nikki_a> mpmc: there you go, that's not intel is it ? :) <flixor> kee <mpmc> nikka_a: Linux thinks it is.. <flixor> btw i love konqueror as a thing for everything <mpmc> <_< <kkathman> flixor: this too will pass :) <nikki_a> mpmc: no, linux knows what it says, and what AC97 really is :) <nikki_a> mpmc: the ICH 'driver' is the AC97 generator, it is part of the chipset, it is the part that actually needs a driver, it produces a AC97 bitstream <mpmc> nikka_a: I wonder is there is any real drivers for it on linux <nikki_a> then the realtek chip is the part that takes the AC97 bitstream and converts it to audio <toby> Hullo folks. Any leafnode users here? <mpmc> nikka_a: Is there a driver!1 <nikki_a> mpmc: you don't need a driver for the realtek chip, its part of how AC97 works <nikki_a> mpmc: you need a driver for the AC97 source (the ICH2/3/4/5 part) <kkathman> flixor: I like Konq as a file manager, its probably the best one out there, but dont particularly like it as a browser, but to each his/her own I always say :) <nalioth> eGaTS: how we doin? <mpmc> nikka_a: ICE958 <eGaTS> still reading the readme <mpmc> nikka_a: Intel ICH5 <nikki_a> mpmc: see, the problem is, linux (alsa) traditionally only talks to the AC97 source, the intel, via, sis southbridge <eGaTS> so this thing acts like adept? it retrieves perl modules? <nikki_a> it uses the standard AC97 methods for setting mixer levels, etc <eGaTS> and cpanplus is like a repository? <nikki_a> so the AC97 target (the realtek chip in your case) is irrelevant to the OS <mpmc> nikka_a: can I make it sound better.. IE get more bass? <nikki_a> mpmc: the problem is, windows drivers 'cheat', they talk directly to the AC97 target, and occasionally activate features, or do stuff like bass boost, to 'sound better' to uninformed ears (in reality, you're better off doing the bass boost in the digital domain) <nikki_a> mpmc: yes, use the EQ controls in your media player, the sound quality is better than cheating the AC97 codec into boosting bass anyway <flixor> true kkathman <mpmc> nikka_a: trying the eq settings now <SpudULike> What do I need to install as a minimum to be able to compile software? I need to compile skype_dsp_hijacker but 'make' is not available. <kkathman> SpudULike: probably build-essentials, gcc and g++ for sure <flixor> btw kkathman what kind of fonts are you using in mozilla-firefox <flixor> because i changed mine but dont remember wich one i had <nikki_a> mpmc: btw, you notice the 'bass boost' trick the most when you plug your PC to an amp using analog *and* digital and switching between the two, since the digital output on a PC is pre-bass boost, it sounds thin, until you re-EQ, usually <chx> hi. oo2 is so very slow for me. i can see the lines of the document being drawn on the screen. litreally. <chx> I have an 1.08GHz Athlon, 1Gbyte of RAM, an integrated nvidia graphs motherboard, and Kubuntu Breezy. <SpudULike> kkathman: Ta. <LjL> hello, i'm quite new to (k)ubuntu, and have some doubts about the updating/upgrading policies for the standard repositories. specifically, why is the new KOffice 1.4.2 packaged in an external repository (as mentioned on the Kubuntu site) instead of just being in breezy-updates, or something? how do the standard (breezy, breezy-updates, universe...) repositires just work with regards to new versions of packages and new packages? <kkathman> flixor: pretty much I use Bitstream Vera Sans for most things <mpmc> nikka_a: funny you should meantion that.. I play My music via heaphones on the PC then play them on my MP3 player they sound nothing alike???? <kkathman> SpudULike: you can apt-get install all those...as you compile, you may come upon dependencies, and you'll need to get those as they popup <mpmc> nikka_a: I always wondered why.. thanks for explaining that ^^ <SpudULike> kkathman: What about access issues, should sudo make && make install be enough? I just got the error - cp: cannot create regular file `/usr/local/lib/libskype_dsp_hijacker.so': Permission denied <nalioth> eGaTS: it does nothing but retrieve perl modules (nothing like adept) but it save you lots and lots of time compiling (if not finding) perl33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abmoduels <eGaTS> ok <LjL> spud: actually, i suppose sudo would be necessary only for make install, not make <kkathman> SpudULike: you'll need to visit where you are doing your compiling. Chances are, as the user, there are probably some file/directory permissions that need to be changed :) <kkathman> or use SUDO with your commands <eGaTS> should i accept the default config? or should i manually config? <nikki_a> the real mystery about AC97 and windows, is why on earth MS haven't taken the alsa approach and produced generic drivers for ICH*, Via, etc, it would mean that 99% of PCs out there would have audio out of the box on a fresh XP install *shrug* <nalioth> LjL: SpudULike correct, only give root powers to the actual binary installation <nalioth> SpudULike: LjL a rogue "makefile" can trash your system terribly <kkathman> SpudULike: I create a directory, then chmod it to 777, then put the sources in there, make sure I do all the sudo apt-get installs. Then I do a ./configure, make and then make install <LjL> nikki: uhm... perhaps they like to encourage people to buy "real" soundcards when they're tired of drivers not working with AC97? ;) <nalioth> kkathman: sudo apt-get installs and make install? <kkathman> nalioth: sure during a compile, its possible that you are deficient some libraries...maybe not, but if you are, you have to get those <nikki_a> LjL: real soundcards like? <nikki_a> LjL: here's a hint, the CL cards are neither 'real' nor special, they contain a AC97 host and target just like onboard chips <kkathman> Ive only done 2 compiles...one for Gaim, and one for GImpshop <LjL> nikki: i haven't the slightest idea, i was using a SB AWE 64 till some months ago (when I bought a new computer that doesn't have ISA) <LjL> anyway, i was only saying "real" as in "not integrated" <nalioth> kkathman: you confused me. knowledge runs confusion out of town <kkathman> Tm_T: was the one who walked me through all of that <Tm_T> ? <kkathman> Im sorry...I probably dont know what Im talkin about 1/2 the time anyway :) <kkathman> so just call me Professor Confusion :) <Tm_T> =) <nalioth> kkathman: so walk SpudULike through the process :) <nalioth> kkathman: in #kubuntu-offtopic <Tm_T> kkathman: you eanProfessor Communism? <kkathman> ahh no <Tm_T> mean <Tm_T> err <kkathman> Confusion <kkathman> Tm_T: is a much better person to walk someone through a compile Im sure :) <kkathman> or of course, you nalioth since you do alot of that stuff :) <nalioth> kkathman: teaching educates <Tm_T> I don't compile stuff that much, only ~20 times a day <nikki_a> LjL: given how terrible CL and their wares are, and the fact that they've put pretty much everyone else out of business in the consumer sound card space, i don't think 'integrated' is all that bad, an AC97 stream is largely an AC97 stream <kkathman> But nalioth I suppose your point is, I shouldnt be offering up answers there and you are most certainly right and I apologize <kkathman> I'll stick with what I know...like..changing desktop backgrounds :) <nalioth> kkathman: please bring SpudULike and join #kubuntu-offtopic <LjL> besides soundcards... really, can someone drive me through this jungle of (K)ubuntu repositories? i'm in #ubuntu, too, and i'm really getting lost, i don't understand what repository is what and does what and serves which purpose anymore <nalioth> LjL: main is the F/OSS stuff without sticky legalities <nalioth> LjL: security is security updated pkgs <nalioth> LjL: universe is 'ubuntu maintained' other legal standing stuff (like mp3, with the fraunhofer patent) <nalioth> LjL: and multiverse is "the rest of the stuff that doesnt fit in any of the others" <<<< i am not too sure the diffs tween uni and multi, but probably legal differences <LjL> yeah, i think it's legal differences <nalioth> LjL: in the future, you'll see "backports" and "extras" repos, too <LjL> but, mainly, when and how are packages updated, or new packages added? again, i mean, why is KOffice 1.4.2 in an external repository and not in main or updates or universe? <dell500> does anyone know anything about Image Gallery 2 and Apache? <dell500> certain conflicts and such <nikki_a> nalioth: i wouldn't be on backports, their mirror list keeps getting smaller and smaller :/ <nikki_a> s/be/bet <nalioth> nikki_a: there are currently no breezy b/p <nalioth> nikki_a: and mirrormax was shut down <LjL> nalioth: about "extras"... in #ubuntu, i've discovered there is seveas.ubuntulinux.nl , which has "extras". where does that fit in the picture exactly? (i'd ask seveas, but there's really too much confusion on #ubuntu) <nikki_a> nalioth: the mirror i use (not mirrormax, i don't think) shut down a couple of days ago too <nikki_a> 'caliu.info' according to sources.list, just gives me failed connect attempts, and i can't be bothered to go look for another mirror <nalioth> nikki_a: backports got "officialized" a month or so b4 breezy released (to keep them on the same quality level as universe) <nalioth> so they may be vetting the archives or something <eGaTS> nalioth: in the cpanplus config, it asks for "Your favorite command line editor?" --would it be ok to use emacs instead of vi? <LjL> but what is one supposed to find in backports (when it's there), if one is running breezy? <martin> Q: I installed proftpd and set the password for a user, with the same username as my admin user. But then the whole system password changed! How!!!??? <nalioth> eGaTS: your favorite editor <eGaTS> nalioth: and do i want to use sudo for 'make install'? <eGaTS> i shouldn't need to if i'm a root user, right? <LjL> what do you mean being a root user? <nalioth> eGaTS: the default answers are usually fine <eGaTS> ok <LjL> well, two questions besides repositories: 1) is anyone here using a Mac-style menu bar (since it works strangely here)? 2) how stable is KDE 3.5b2, in the opinions of those who tried it? <nalioth> mac-style? <LjL> yeah, one single menu bar for all applications, on the top of the screen. if you go to the Desktop settings in KDE (right click on the desktop), you'll have an option for that somewhere <LjL> basically, a new Kicker panel will be created, containing the menu bar <nalioth> should work the same as a bottom feeding kicker <LjL> i don't know what a bottom feeding kicker is... but anyway, the problem i have is this (well, it's not really a problem, it's just a strange behaviour i can work around) <LjL> in older versions of KDE, the menu bar wasn't really a Kicker panel, but a thing by itself. so, you couldn't add other elements to it <LjL> but, in older versions, there was a "Menu" applet you could add to panels, which substitued that menu bar <kkathman> LjL: I add lots of things to my kicker, and have a second panel just above it for all my applications <LjL> now, there is no "Menu" applet (well, it's there, but hidden - you can de-hide it, but it doesn't work) <LjL> the menu bar, though, has become a real kicker panel, but a very strange one: it can't be configured like other panels (can only stay on top, etc), it can't be the main panel (so i have to keep a "main panel" somewhere even tho i have no need for it) <LjL> and sometimes it just behaves weirdly (like, when i login, it isn't where it ought to be, i.e. at the top of the screen) <SpudULike> --- Logical volume --- <SpudULike> LV Name /dev/Ubuntu/root <SpudULike> VG Name Ubuntu <SpudULike> LV UUID 8Fa5Nb-5tdm-Hz2F-YLte-qYWz-WkV7-vK4BuE <SpudULike> LV Write Access read/write <SpudULike> LV Status available <LjL> kkathman: i like to have the *least possible screen space* taken up by panels. so, basically, what I (want to) have is a single panel with the applications' menu bar and some useful buttons (the K menu, a clock, etc...) <SpudULike> # open 0 <SpudULike> LV Size 74.62 GB <SpudULike> Current LE 19102 <SpudULike> Segments 1 <kkathman> Ljl you can certainly do that <SpudULike> Allocation inherit <SpudULike> Read ahead sectors 0 <LjL> kkathman: to switch between windows, I use a bottom taskbar that's kept hidden, and only appears when i go on it <SpudULike> Block device 253:0 <SpudULike> --- Logical volume --- <LjL> kkathman: well, with the current version, no i can't <SpudULike> LV Name /dev/Ubuntu/swap_1 <SpudULike> VG Name Ubuntu <SpudULike> LV UUID BStQ4X-W5DX-q4KS-Oh23-wWio-ocQ0-GuUzmM <SpudULike> LV Write Access read/write <LjL> kkathman: because i *have* to have another panel (the "main panel") besides the one containing the menu bar <SpudULike> LV Status available <kkathman> and then you can hide the whole thing to a single small button at the far right for instance <SpudULike> # open 0 <SpudULike> LV Size 1.47 GB <SpudULike> Current LE 377 <nikki_a> SpudULike: please stop <LjL> there is simply no way to put the menu bar *on* the main panel as an applet, as could be done in previous versions <SpudULike> Segments 1 <SpudULike> Allocation inherit <SpudULike> Read ahead sectors 0 <kkathman> sigh <SpudULike> Block device 253:1 <SpudULike> Sorry! <SpudULike> Completely the wrong window. * SpudULike shoots himself. <kkathman> SpudULike: read the topic sir <LjL> (certainly, I can make the main panel very small and keep it hidden, which is what I'm doing now... still, it's not very elegant, and this "regression" from the better behavior of previous versions is strange) <kkathman> LjL: why cant you configure the main toolbar? <nalioth> SpudULike: please dude <LjL> kkathman: i can configure it, but how am I going to add a menu bar to it? <aliveuser> if i update my kernel with a 686 version via kynaptic, what about the apps? should i make a dist-upgrade or something like that? <kkathman> LjL: not sure what you mean...menubar...you mean the K menu? <nalioth> aliveuser: you will be fine, your apps will all work (unless you are updating from amd64 or ppc) <kkathman> the main toolbar will have the K menu automatically inserted at the far left...at least it did for me <aliveuser> okey perfect <aliveuser> thanks <LjL> kkathman: no, i mean the applications' menu bar. right click on the desktop, click "Configure desktop", click "Behavior", then click "Current application's menu bar (MacOS style)" <kkathman> you can define any button or short cut to an app and drag it to the kicker <kkathman> LjL: oh...icck I dont like that, but whatever you like I suppose <LjL> kkathman: you don't like the way it looks in KDE, or you don't like the concept? <kkathman> you could turn that back to None, configure the kicker and drag it to the top <kkathman> no I dont like that concept of the menu bar <LjL> i really, *really* like the concept, and, besides personal preferences, it's been demonstrated as a better design than per-window menus, from a UI-usability perspective <kkathman> but thats just my preference <kkathman> its all about preference <LjL> kkathman: your suggestion doesn't work, 'cause then i'd have a main panel *and* a menu bar <LjL> both on top, but still separate (and taking up twice the space) <kkathman> yah see I would never use that menu bar at all <LjL> kkathman: yeah, all in all it's about preference, but there are objective factors too -- which doesn't mean you should forfait your preference in favor of the "objective factors"! <LjL> still, the top-of-the-screen menu bar is, well, simply easier to click <LjL> as the screen *ends* above it, you can't mis-click on the y axis <nalioth> LjL: does the kicker on the top not fulfill what you are looking for ? <kkathman> LjL: against thats your preference and your opinion that its easier. So thats kewl :) <kkathman> again I mean...not against :) <LjL> nalioth: no, cause it can't contain a menu bar... <Niomi> hello ^_^ <nalioth> howdy <LjL> kkathman: no... studies have been made on a large number of users. still, clearly, if you prefer the other way, you're perfectly entitled to use it! only, it's not just "my preference", but something that has been studied under controlled conditions <Niomi> do you mind if i bug you with newbie questions? <nalioth> Niomi: we love all kinds of questions about kubuntu <LjL> kkathman: and besides usability, multiple menu bars (one per window) simply take up more screen space than necessary. now, clearly, you may not care too much about screen space, but you'll agree that, in principle, not wasting screen real estate is a Good Thing (TM) <LjL> oh and, by the way, I am *not* a Mac user :-) <LjL> (ok... i was an amiga user, and that's got top-of-the-screen menus, too ;) <nalioth> LjL: i AM a mac user, and i love everybody <Niomi> thanks nalioth :) i installed out-of-the-box ubuntu, with gnome, and later used apt-get to download and install KDE. i acessed KDE from the login screen and it appears to work okay. how is what i did different from a kubuntu installation, besides the fact that what i did has both GUIs to choose from? <kkathman> LjL: uhm I would submit that the studies are worth exactly zilch. Navigability and useability, is based on a delicate balance between appearance, convenience, and the individuals personal preference and past experiences. So no study could possibly take these into account. Microsoft has done this kind of thing for years, and you see what it resulted in. LOL <LjL> nalioth: i wasn't trying to be against mac users, i was just pointing out that the reason i like top-of-the-screen-menus is *not* simply because I'm used to MacOS :-) <nalioth> Niomi: to get a 'full' kubuntu, use apt to install "kubuntu-desktop" <nalioth> LjL: to each their own, my friend, we are all different in our wants and desires <kkathman> exactly <LjL> kkathman: microsoft is weird. what about the start bar? just *why* aren't the task buttons clickable from the very bottom of the screen? (actually, maybe they are in the latest versions, dunno) <nalioth> LjL: why must one click "start" to quit? <LjL> they should have learned, but it seems they hadn't when they come up with the start bar. or, perhaps they were simply afraid of being sued by apple for IP infringements, though i find that unlikely <LjL> nalioth: they shouldn't have called it Start to begin with... <dm> How can i change time format to 12 hour, instead of military time ?? <LjL> anyway, look at the KDE panels. you can click every button (except for some weird applets perhaps) by clicking at the very top (or very bottom, or left or right, depending on your panel) of the screen <nalioth> dm: right click on the clock and make it so <kkathman> lol...if anyone would be suing it would be Xerox...they started it all anyway :) but thats beside the point. :) <LjL> i just don't think they've done this by chance... this is 100% intended behavior IMHO <nalioth> let us not discuss the toxin that lives in Redmond (and millions of poor machines) <dm> nalioth i change it to pH:MM:SS:AMPM and it doenst change <nalioth> dm: i'm not sure if a log out and back is necessary <CellarDoor> well... I've done a fresh install of breezy and I'm gonna keep it simple for the next week or so... we'll see what happens <LjL> well <LjL> oh, he's gone away anyway :) <nalioth> CellarDoor: welcome <CellarDoor> hi <LjL> i think at worst, he should have tried removing the clock applet and adding it again <dm> nalioth that worked, :) <CellarDoor> I've had terrible problems, 1st install stopped booting after 1 day <CellarDoor> 2nd install, kde started freezing on startup... and I couldnt rectify it <frank23> CellarDoor: when does it freeze? <frank23> freezy completely? <CellarDoor> so...uhmm first install it froze during bootup <CellarDoor> last install I had went funny yesterday and KDE stopped starting up <dm> Anyone know how to add Klaptop ? i found the Klaptopdaemon but i cant get it on my panel .. any suggestions <CellarDoor> failsafe mode was cactus also <frank23> CellarDoor: what happens? keyboard and mouse stop working? <CellarDoor> I'm keeping this install very simple for the next week or so... if it happens again and I cant rectify it.. I'm going back to hoary <nalioth> !info klaptop <kkathman> evening there frank23 :) <frank23> CellarDoor: what processor do you have? <nalioth> !find klaptop <ubotu> klaptopdaemon: (battery monitoring and management for laptops using KDE), section kde, is optional. Version: 4:3.4.3-0ubuntu1 (breezy), Packaged size: 233 kB, Installed size: 904 kB <dm> nm i got it <frank23> kkathman: hi <CellarDoor> frank, either failure to boot up, or KDE fails to start up <CellarDoor> anyone got any opinions on what the best text based irc is ? <LjL> telnet <LjL> :P <CellarDoor> I'm trying out xchat-text and hmm... it sucks <frank23> CellarDoor: I don't know if this could be your problem but powernowd caused hard freezes for me so I disabled it <LjL> well, i just know about irssi and ircII <nalioth> CellarDoor: irssi <Tarragon> ircII <CellarDoor> ok <Niomi> nalioth, this will allow me to choose between KDE and gnome at login, correct? will it interfere with my gnome installation or settings? <LjL> oh, by the way, how does one get hibernation from KDE? in Gnome, there is "Hibernate" in the log out menu, and it just works (though it's much slower than I'd like)( <LjL> (not a laptop) <nalioth> Niomi: correct. it will allow you to choose under "sessions" <CellarDoor> frank23: please could you explain what powernowd is and how to disable it ? <nalioth> Niomi: and you can use gnome progs under kde, and vice versa, also <LjL> cellar: aptitude remove powernowd <LjL> what it is, i don't really know :-) but try reading a "apt-cache show powernowd" <Niomi> nalioth, i have noticed that already. it's very handy, making it worth the installation even if i can't get used to KDE (but I hope to, it seems to be more flexible and customisable, even if a lot more overwhelming) <CellarDoor> I'm going to reboot daily to see what happens... as I don't know when the problem appears <CellarDoor> I <frank23> CellarDoor: it is responsible for changing processor clock speed. lowers the speed when the processor is not being used <CellarDoor> I just reboot one day, or log out and kaput... <CellarDoor> hmm <frank23> CellarDoor: sudo chmod -x /etc/init.d/powernowd disables it <CellarDoor> any idea why it might cause a problem ? <LjL> niomi: what I hate about KDE is that, to my tastes, it looks ugly as hell by default :-) and, yeah, it's full of options... but i find it just much more attractive than Gnome <LjL> i mean, it has concepts in it, it doesn't just try to be "usable" <frank23> CellarDoor: In my case my computer freezes when it tries to change the clock speed <CellarDoor> gnome is ugly by default... kde is just "plain" <LjL> cellardoor: well i guess it depends on preferences (again)... <CellarDoor> frank23: I'm using an amd xp 2800+ <nalioth> Niomi: may i suggest xubuntu-desktop also? <LjL> i just like simple and functional desktops (though as nice as possible, without damaging simplicity and functionality) over fancy colorful stuff <LjL> and KDE, by default, is well... just *TOO* fancy and colorful <CellarDoor> kde is improving <Niomi> nalioth- I've heard about x window manager, thank you for the tip. I want to try as many as I can :) <nalioth> ubotu: tell Niomi about xubuntu <CellarDoor> brb <Niomi> LjL: KDE looked pretty inimitating when i installed it, haha. gnome has a cleaner and simpler look for sure, but it appears that the panels and desktops are much more flexible <_jeremy> back <LjL> niomi: definitely <LjL> the KDE panel is quite powerful <LjL> well, KDE in general is quite powerful, even though it would probably benefit from some tidying-up <LjL> without actually *removing* features... just by making "essential" features stand out more clearly <nalioth> Niomi: ANYTHING in linux is configurable by you to any appearance you desire <LjL> so that you just don't keep staring for minutes at an overcrowded configuration dialog :) <nalioth> Niomi: there is no "windows registry" all settings for all you see is in YOUR personal home directory <Niomi> nalioth: the terminal window changed to a BIOS-like interface (grey boxes + black mono test on blue backround). Is this normal? <LjL> nalioth: well... it depends how *easily* configurable something is! :-) everything is configurable because you can always change the source code, but, come on ;) <nalioth> LjL: i'm referring to the magical .files <Niomi> .files? <nalioth> Niomi: i'm not sure what BIOS-like is.. but if it's asking you a question, choose gdm <LjL> nalioth: ok... still, they don't necessary allow you to configure *everything* you might like to configure <nalioth> ubotu: tell Niomi about cli <LjL> niomi: he means filenames beginning with a dot, i.e. hidden files <nalioth> Niomi: in *nix, .files are not seen by default (anything with a . in front of it is considered "invisible" until specifically called upon <Niomi> LjL: oh, thanks! They had .files in windows too, though I believe they were windows ports of linux software. <Niomi> such as a .gaim folder in Application Data (I think) <LjL> Niomi: i guess so, and in windows they don't get hidden anyway. in Linux, files beginning with a '.' are hidden by default by most shell programs <nalioth> Niomi: correct <LjL> instead, Windows has a specific attribute "Hidden" to hide files <CellarDoor> could someone explain how I can stop breezy's normal boot up and just go to a bash prompt ? <LjL> (which works quite a bit differently, internally, from the Unix "dot" files, AFAIK) <nalioth> ubotu: tell CellarDoor about bum <LjL> !bum <ubotu> somebody said bum was a graphical BootUp Manager; see http://www.marzocca.net/linux/bum.html <CellarDoor> I just wanna be able to get to a bash prompt if breezy stops behaving nice <nalioth> CellarDoor: see the double post <LjL> what about passing init=/bin/sh to the kernel? <frank23> !w32codecs <ubotu> rumour has it, w32codecs is a set of audio/video codecs for DVD-Video. To download the debs: http://tinyurl.com/bwomt (Hoary), or http://tinyurl.com/bpxbf (Breezy) <LjL> (i admit i don't quite see how bum would be useful for what cellardoor wants, though I haven't actually installed it) <eGaTS> is there a linux equivalent of undelete in kubuntu? (to recover an rm'ed file) <LjL> apt-cache search undelete <nalioth> bum will allow its user to remove "gdm" from the startup routine <nalioth> eGaTS: i'm sorry to say, once rm'd, forever gone <nalioth> eGaTS: unless you have lots of money for the data professionals <LjL> nalioth: oh, right, but i was thinking about just getting a shell in single-user mode (though maybe i've misunderstood) <frank23> nalioth: really? the data is not overwritten immediately though <LjL> anyway, how are you going to start bum if you can't start X? :-> <eGaTS> i thought rm just unlinked the file.... not shredded? <LjL> hmm nalioth (about undelete), wait a moment <LjL> apt-cache show e2undel <nalioth> frank23: do you want to hand scan each sector for your raw data signatures to recover it? <propagandhi> eGaTS: http://recover.sourceforge.net/linux/ <nalioth> LjL: e2undel doesnt work too well on ext3, i dont think <eGaTS> yeah, i've been there <eGaTS> just wondering if linux had a native command. <LjL> propagandhi: didn't know about that one, thanks <LjL> nalioth: isn't ext3 just ext2 with a jornal added? i mean, an ext3 filesystem can be mounted as ext2 with no trouble <nalioth> eGaTS: let's pause for a moment, and open a console <propagandhi> LjL: no worries <eGaTS> already there, n. <nalioth> LjL: it is, but you cant treat it like an ext2 fs <nalioth> eGaTS: type "gedit ~/.bashrc" <eGaTS> k <frank23> nalioth: since you can mount an ext3 as ext2 isn't ok to use it that? (but maybe recovering still doesn't work) <nalioth> eGaTS: at the bottom of the .bashrc, type alias rm="rm -i" <Niomi> nalioth, that's a good link for basic commands. thanks! <nalioth> frank23: the journaling has some futzing to do with some recovery things <flixor> guys i am looking for an app wich is as fast as cqview but then one with a better interface <nalioth> Niomi: ubotu is full of helpful things <nalioth> Niomi: but you must be registered to use him <nalioth> Niomi: please type /msg nickserv help register <eGaTS> lol, that's ok <Niomi> that's nalioth :D <nalioth> eGaTS: dont need a "rm speedbump" ? i have one <eGaTS> i would have confirmed the deletion anyways <nalioth> eGaTS: it's your machine :) <frank23> nalioth: ok. I guess the only way to have "undelete" is by using a script for rm that backs up files somewhere instead of deleting them. <nalioth> frank23: that is one way, yes <eGaTS> never mind. i think you answered my question: there is no undelete command native to linux. end of topic. <frank23> eGaTS: maybe some other filesystems are more forgiving <LjL> frank: well, or at least a script that saves the starting block of the file somewhere <nalioth> frank23: ahemWindoh!sGurgle <LjL> egats: well, if you're using ext2, there definitely is (though "native to linux" doesn't mean much of anything) <nalioth> LjL: as frank23 mentioned there is a script that takes "rm bleh" and squirrels 'bleh' away somewehre in a temp dir <eGaTS> what i mean by native is the simple commands: ls, rm, etc. <LjL> nalioth: yeah, i read what he said... <nalioth> Niomi: /msg nickserv help register <nalioth> Niomi: /msg nickserv register <THEPASSWORDYOUWANT> <LjL> egats: they aren't any more native than the "e2undel" command. well, actually, "ls" and "rm" are bash built-ins AFAIK, but they're not "native to linux" by any means <Niomi> nalioth, thanks for putting up with me XD <nalioth> Niomi: i'm here to help (or try) <eGaTS> ok, native to bash then. i've never used any other shell. and my lingo is lacking. <LjL> egats: ok, but anyway, many of the commands you use everyday (and that everyone uses everyday) are not even native to bash <nalioth> eGaTS: i believe you have enough info to continue your relationship with "rm" in a way you like <eGaTS> i guess i made some assumptions about the file system i shouldn't have. i'll have to read up on ext. <LjL> they're simply executable programs, which happen to be found on a large number of systems running Linux <LjL> in other words, they're quite standard, but "native", no <LjL> egats: I have a feeling that, simply, nobody until now cared to write an "undelete" program for ext3... but i don't think it's not doable in principle <frank23> "ls" and "rm" were most likely comonly used before Linus was born * eGaTS 's head explodes <LjL> frank: absolutely * tarheelcoxn wipes eGaTS' nose off <tarheelcoxn> anybody have a paper towel? <Tm_T> no <LjL> still, they're as native as any other program, since they're simply executables like many others (well, again, in the specific case of "ls" and "rm", that's not true if one's using bash) <Tm_T> just kick em around * nalioth hands tarheelcoxn a firehose <tarheelcoxn> nalioth++ <CellarDoor> eGaTS: you just gotta get used to a 'modular' approach... KDE is not linux... bash is not linux... theyre all part of the distribution, the whole package... linux is the kernel <tarheelcoxn> midi hold music is really annoying <LjL> cellar: yeah that was basically what i was trying to say. <CellarDoor> :) <LjL> and, besides "philosophy"... as a practical matter, i don't see any *practical* difference between having an "undelete" command that's somehow "native" to the OS, and having one that isn't * nalioth has k/x/ubuntu installed (with enlightenment and fluxbox) and uses the best tool(s) for the job <CellarDoor> I'm somewhere between n00b and semi-n00b, and take pride in still being able to speak in terms 'ordinary folk' understand... at least I think I can... <LjL> i'm by no means a "linux expert" or anything, nowhere near <LjL> but i didn't start with windows or ms-dos <eGaTS> cellar: i'm like a dog trying to understand the concept of color. <CellarDoor> :P <Niomi> i do believe dogs can see shades of red? maybe i'm thinking about cats <LjL> i think i just have different "ordinary terms" in my mind. on AmigaOS, i never heard people speaking of "native commands" <tarheelcoxn> LjL: let's refer to them as "OSs from that Redmond-based company" <LjL> so it just sounds strange for me to hear that term, linux or not linux <nalioth> there is a great help reference in ubotu <nalioth> !ubotu <ubotu> Thaaat's me! I'm a bot, not a human. I'm sometimes the most coherent poster on this channel! For more, ask me about "add". You can browse my databanks on http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/ <nalioth> note the URL in that factoid <eGaTS> lol <nalioth> !+msg the bot <ubotu> extra, extra, read all about it, msg the bot is please message the bot in private, he accepts private messages from registered nicknames(/msg nickserv help register). In order for everyone to get better help, do not clutter the channel with many !commands, please. /msg ubotu keyword, or especially if you do not know whether some factoid exists. <nalioth> use all your resources for learning <frank23> I saw in the forums that w32codecs and sun's java will appear again in breezy-extras as packages which download and install those somewhere else. <Demon_stroke> omg! <tarheelcoxn> reading posts on mailing lists--also a great way to learn <flixor> what i dont understand why is a program like gwenview making every time when i start the program new thumnails <frank23> so breezy-* repos will have everything you need again! <flixor> why dont it save the once made thumbs <Tm_T> kinfo <dm> How do i setup my multimedia keys in KDE?? <Tm_T> "kinfo <Tm_T> !kinfo <ubotu> Not a clue, Tm_T <Tm_T> yu <kkathman> ;p; <kkathman> lol <Tm_T> why the hell that bot is here <CellarDoor> eGaTS: its just a matter of familiarity really, you get used to it after a while, and it all gets much easier to understand... the thing that makes it more difficult in my experience is if your mind has already been trained to think in "Windows thinking"... <kkathman> !disco <ubotu> Woo Yeah, boogie on down...... **flashing lights*** party :D <tarheelcoxn> dm: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg <kkathman> thats why <Tm_T> kkathman: I'm talking about kinfo <kkathman> just playin <Tm_T> I know why ubotu is here <tarheelcoxn> dm: that will get X to recognize those keys... getting them to work with KDE is another story <LjL> cellar: no, it's just a matter of familiarity, but that means that after a while, you'll have discovered some new, harder to understand things that you didn't believe existed <CellarDoor> hehe <kkathman> Like I said earlier CellarDoor Linux is a journey with an endless horizon <CellarDoor> well... I find it easier to understand the concepts involved today than I did 24 months ago <LjL> well, after X has recognized the keys, with KDE it should be simply a matter of assigning the shortcuts you like <tarheelcoxn> dm: did you already try that? <dm> tarheelcoxn they worked in gnome, is there an option like gnome to set them up for Play/pause / etc <tarheelcoxn> ahhhh <dm> tarheelcoxn yeah still dont work in KDE <tarheelcoxn> weird. That might be something you'd want to post to a few forums or mailing lists <LjL> dm: there are things like that in KDE media programs, too. it's usually under "Settings / Configure shortcuts", though I must say my media keys aren't working with that <LjL> (and yeah, I also think I remember that they worked in GNOME but not in KDE, though that was on Debian) <flixor> guys i call it a day adios and see and read you tommorow kkathman and nalioth thanks for the help today <Ninjew> Hey, does anybody know what the kwin window decoration theme used in this screenshot is: http://www.madtasty.com/files/crypto.png ? <nalioth> forums are not factual, mailing list would be a surer source of java/w32codec knowledge <nalioth> flixor: be safe <dm> ljl i dont see a Configure shortcuts in Settings <kkathman> LjL: I think dm means like the keys that are on his multimedia keyboard, not the configure keys like ctrls and alts <LjL> kkathman: i mean the same <humbolt> I want to use "alsaplayer -i text" to play my system notifications. using alsaplayer without arguments works, with arguments it does not. what am I doing wrong. <LjL> dm: try for example in KMix <LjL> dm: (though, strangely, i don't see shortcuts for "volume up" and "volume down" there.... bah?!) <fujisan> Can you get a virus when browsing on pornsites using ubuntu? <kkathman> right thats what I was sayin Ljl :) <LjL> what kind of question is this? :D <dm> ljl yeah , gnome had them but KDE doesnt, thats wierd <fujisan> important 1 :) <nalioth> fujisan: there are no known viruses for linux, no matter where you surf <fujisan> answer please <fujisan> :) <fujisan> cool <LjL> dm, kkathman: yeah, but anyway, on my computer KDE isn't recognizing my "multimedia" keys as valid shortcuts --- then, the fact that there is no "volume" shortcut available is another issue <fujisan> maybe i should make some :) <tarheelcoxn> fujisan: good luck <frank23> nalioth: that's not absolutely true is it? malicious programs that run as user could definitly exist <fujisan> haha <dm> ljl so how do i fix this? <kkathman> nalioth: there are, but they are few and far between...heres a list of them: http://www.viruslibrary.com/virusinfo/Linux.htm <LjL> dm: i have honestly no idea, but let me look around a bit... i'm also interested in getting media keys to work (even though it didn't even occur to me before you mentioned them ;) <kkathman> what you are shielded from, fujisan are the exploits in Internet Explorer, and things that use ActiveX etc <kkathman> among other things :) <fujisan> lol <nalioth> frank23: yes, but most virus writers want to use your machine for their own ends, not use your piddly permissioned part of it <dm> ljl like i sayed they worked in gnome :( /cry <LjL> dm: well, i see there is a program "hotkeys" in the repository, which does just about what we seem to want. but i *think* i remember I tried that one in debian, and i found it to be a bit of a mess <LjL> still, you could try it <CellarDoor> bye all * CellarDoor waves <LjL> bye <frank23> nalioth: but a user program can do anything on the network (without a firewall) so it could serve as mail relay, ddos etc right <nalioth> frank23: yes, technically true, but we have our numbers to thank for our lack of those malicious things <fujisan> i get an error it wont Kaffeine cant open mpeg files ? <kkathman> there isnt much reason for a virus writer to go the LInux direction anyway...the impact wouldnt be satisfying to them <LjL> oh, look! <LjL> if you right click on the master volume slider (or any slider, actually) in KMix, there is a "Configure shortcuts" that will allow you to set shortcuts for volume up, down and mute <frank23> nalioth: yeah.. Do you know if there is anyway to prevent a specific program from using the network? ex: allow one browser but not another <LjL> though clearly this doesn't help with not being able to assign multimedia-keys shortcuts <fujisan> so even when some1 sends you a windows virus i wont do nothing? <fujisan> it* <nalioth> fujisan: nothing at all <frank23> nalioth: windows firewalls can do this but not linux, as far as I know <nalioth> frank23: have you researched iptables and ipconf? <frank23> nalioth: no. <tarheelcoxn> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/09/19/linux_rootkit_hacker_suspect_arrested/ <fujisan> Do i need a firewall to protect my steampassword? <frank23> nalioth: can they tell what program is doing whar? <nalioth> frank23: iptables is quite configureable <Niomi> the ubotu has some great easter eggs XD <kkathman> hehe <tarheelcoxn> ie. you don't need to worry about you linux box being hacked unless it is a production server <nalioth> frank23: psss, when people say "linux firewall" they actually are talking about iptables <frank23> Niomi: that's because anyone can teach him things, I think <kkathman> nalioth: firestarter is a linux firewall isnt it? <frank23> nalioth: I know... <nalioth> kkathman: firestarter is a linux iptables frontend, yes <Niomi> kkathman: isn't firestarter a GUI for iptables? <Niomi> well, he beat me to it <kkathman> ok <kkathman> hehe <kkathman> nice <fujisan> hey help i'm trying to listen to internetradio using amroK but it keeps loading buffer without playing any music? <kkathman> Im pretty sure I dont need one anyway :) <nalioth> professor kkathman, looks like we're gonna have to make room at the faculty table, heh <frank23> nalioth: none of the linux I've seen can the "some program wants to access the network, do you want to allow this? yes/no" though <LjL> dm: there is a (complicated) explanation here: http://dot.kde.org/1094715499/1094828408/ <nalioth> frank23: no, in linux, you know what you want, and make it so <LjL> still, i have no clue why they work out of the box in gnome <kkathman> well we certainly cant have too much help, Sir nalioth :) <Niomi> LJL: can you tell me what you mean by 'out of the box'? <frank23> nalioth: that's not as excuse. not everyone knows enough to know what port is needed open for what program <kkathman> nalioth: psss means we can slip off and not feel guilty :) <florent> is there a french channel of kubuntu plz ? <LjL> niomi: well, dm said (and I remember the same from when I was using Debina) that GNOME supports multimedia keys without doing anything special, while KDE doesn't (and this is my experience, too) <fujisan> hey help i'm trying to listen to internetradio using amroK but it keeps loading buffer without playing any music? <endo602> what is a good ftp client <frank23> florent: oui, kubuntu-fr <endo602> ? <nalioth> frank23: between user permissions, iptables and other facets of *nix, you can restrict anything from happening online <florent> frank23tu peux maider ? <nalioth> endo602: gftp <endo602> client <endo602> or server? <frank23> florent: va dans #kubuntu-fr <kkathman> evening endo602 :) <florent> ok <endo602> kkathman: what up man <endo602> how you been <kkathman> been good, and yourself, endo602 :) <LjL> (by the way, another thing GNOME supports "out of the box" is hibernation, or software-suspend, which KDE apparently doesn't support on Kubuntu, even though i've read clues that it's supposed to support it) <FreeBird> test <Niomi> LjL, really? I'm having trouble getting hibernation to work correctly on my laptop <fujisan> how do i get caffeine to play mpeg movies? <nalioth> FreeBird: b- <fujisan> There were no decoders found to handle the stream, you might need to install the corresponding plugins <LjL> niomi: actually, my computer is not a laptop, but hibernation (i.e. software suspend, i.e. suspend-to-disk) does work in GNOME -- what's strange is that it works without the "hibernate" script installed <nalioth> fujisan: search adept for 'mpeg' <LjL> must say it's not too well-refined even in gnome... when i tell it to hibernate, it does some stuff, then turns the HDs off, then on again, and then turns the power off <FreeBird> :-) <LjL> and something similar (but reversed) is done on a later restart... wastes a lot of time that shouldn't be wasted <Niomi> i can get it to hibernate and gnome but not automatically when the case is closed, and/or after a certain amount of idle time <kkathman> For those of you that are into MySQL and PHP or Python programing, this looks promising: http://www.alwins-world.de/programs/kmysqladmin/ <LjL> well, i don't really know about that, as I have no case to close... <fujisan> nalioth which 1 should i install? <endo602> nalioth: how is pftp? <endo602> kkathman: i have been doing great <endo602> my wife still hasnt given birth yet <nalioth> fujisan: look for mpeg engine for use with media players <LjL> besides, i think hibernation is underrated. i've read people writing "it's not needed anyway, as KDE/GNOME can restore the session as it was previously, not like RedmondSoft does" <nalioth> endo602: all these programs in the repos are free to use as you wish, d/l and use as many as you can find, and keep on using what you like <LjL> well, this just makes no sense, as hibernation gives you a much faster boots when you have many applets/applications loaded, and the "session restoring" is much more predictable <kkathman> endo602: we are keeping you and your wife in our thoughts :) <eGaTS> nalioth: i typed "cpanp d XML33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abParser" and it fetched the .tar.gz. what do i do with it? <nalioth> eGaTS: stop the press. <dm> ljlfind anything else? <LjL> on W*ndows, i just never really *turn off* my computer, as hibernation is more than good enough. i just reboot it sometimes when it gets in bad states (which don't happen *too* often with win2000, after all) <nalioth> eGaTS: type exit or whatever <fujisan> nalioth i clicked on install package but it keeps saying not installed? <LjL> dm: no :( <nalioth> fujisan: which install pkg? <fujisan> ffmpeg <LjL> nalioth: ? <LjL> nalioth: nevermind <eGaTS> nalioth: so the module is installed? the gimp plugin's make is still asking for it. <nalioth> eGaTS: your command is "cpan install perl33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abmodule" <eGaTS> awesome :) <endo602> kkathman: thanks man <nalioth> or type "cpan" <enter> (it loads a cpan prompt) and then "install perl33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abmodule" (and when done, type 'exit' to leave the cpan prompt) <endo602> anyone here use psybnc>?' <endo602> nalioth: i dl both <endo602> im trying that out now <fujisan> sudo apt-get install ffmpeg <fujisan> i tried this command <fujisan> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? <fujisan> and got that error <nalioth> fujisan: close all your apts, synaptic/adepts <fujisan> How can i see wich app is using it <hydrogen> lsof <fujisan> k got it ty <fujisan> Now i get the error i cant play the mpeg from dvd cuz i can only select local files? <fujisan> ;/ <LjL> dm: another progrma you could try is LinEAK (it's in the reps). it's got a KDE GUI too <nalioth> fujisan: what kind of dvd? <fujisan> a data dvd <fujisan> burned wih nero <LjL> dm: (still, i think mm keys ought to work without any additional programs... but hotkeys or LinEAK could be decent fix-ups) <fujisan> cant i play those>? <fujisan> here were no decoders found to handle the stream, you might need to install the corresponding plugins <fujisan> in installed the mpeg codec <fujisan> how do i know which 1 is the right one <LjL> oh, i've just discovered there are suspend to ram and suspend to disk scripts in /etc/acpi... i'll try them, which means i'll ping timeout if they do work ;) <laszlok> Anyone know anything about multimedia keys in KDE? I set the keyboard to iTouch in system settings, and now when i use the volume buttons, a big volume display pops up. <laszlok> But i would rather have it assigned to a dcop call for amarok <gerardocb> Does someone knows about a good multiplatform videoconf program for Linux? <dm> ljl trying now <gerardocb> I know about gnomemeeting, but h.323 is not a very good option por nat'ed networks... <dm> ljl know the command to start lineak ? <hydrogen> what happened to Klineakconfig <hydrogen> why is it nonexistant <LjL> dm: haven't tried it, but KLineakConfig should be the KDE configuration client <eGaTS> nalioth: how do i know if it worked? that was a very verbose process. <LjL> oh.... <LjL> :) <nalioth> eGaTS: try your gimp build again <eGaTS> lol, ok <hydrogen> its not installed for me.. <dm> ljl lemme try a reboot. <eGaTS> nalioth: still saying the same thing <eGaTS> "checking for XML33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abParser... configure: error: XML33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abParser perl module is required for intltool" <nalioth> eGaTS: your cpan process finished without error? <eGaTS> not sure. <eGaTS> it said "All tests successful" but also "Already tried without success" <eGaTS> the text goes for miles <nalioth> eGaTS: make cpan do it again <LjL> wow! <LjL> i hibernated, then resumed, and i was still connected to IRC :) <Seek205> lol <nalioth> cool beans, LjL <LjL> well, this doesn't excuse that hibernation is slow as hell, anyway ;) <LjL> it's just not slow enough for freenode to end up its patience :) <fujisan> it works now but not synced <nalioth> ubotu: tell fujisan about dma <fujisan> very skippy <dm> ljl *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x08058724 *** <LjL> dm: cute... <LjL> look, why don't you just do what's described in the link i gave you? it looks more than a bit tedious to do, but if you really want mm keys, it seems like the safest way to go <LjL> and it doesn't involve any additional software running as a daemon <dm> i dont mind daemons running, <dm> :P <nalioth> as long as they're not running after you, eh? <eGaTS> nalioth: it says something about installing sample programs in /usr/bin. i don't want to junk up my bin dir-- would that have caused the unsuccessful install? <LjL> ok, but still, it's something KDE definitely ought to be able to do without daemons... otherwise, KMix and friends wouldn't offer shortcuts for "volume up" and such, i suppose ;) <nalioth> eGaTS: is this after you
{'channel': 'kubuntu', 'month': 11}