#ubuntu-quality 2012-12-03 * phillw hail & welcome the logging bot.... Thanks rt team :) <balloons> phillw, nice! <phillw> balloons: don't balem me, it was of the regulars who noticed it missing.. i only raised the support ticket! <phillw> *blame* <balloons> indeed.. <phillw> balloons: while you are on... do you have about a 1 hour window in your diary tomorrow / wednesday to go over some stuff with me? <balloons> phillw, sure thing <balloons> what time (in UTC?) <phillw> balloons: between 13:00 - 16:00 ? <phillw> Else after 20:00 GMT <phillw> GMT == UTC this time of year for me :) * balloons converts <balloons> hmm <balloons> 1500 UTC could work <balloons> I'm penciling you in there <phillw> balloons: okies, I'll give you a ping at 14:55 UTC and expect no reply :P #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-04 <Noskcaj> the xubuntu daily freezes on the hit enter to restart propmpt <elfy> Noskcaj: found something else with that update window ... if it's in the downloading state, you can't resize - unless you go for more detail, once it has the terminal output you can resize it <Noskcaj> elfy: strange can you report the bug? <Noskcaj> and try and confirm the daily thing, i found it in AMD64 Vbox <elfy> I'll try and find out what to report it against and do it <elfy> daily thing? <Noskcaj> the xubuntu daily freezes on the hit enter to restart propmpt <elfy> have a look a bit later at that <psivaa> jamespage: raring server ceph tests have some post install test failures, <psivaa> testCephRadosGateway: Ceph Rados Gateway Daemon not running or to many daemons running <psivaa> testCephRadosGatewayApache: Failed to connect to the localhost <psivaa> testRestBench: ERROR: XmlParseFailure <psivaa> jamespage: the tests are run with 40G disk space as instructed though <jamespage> psivaa, oooo * jamespage looks <psivaa> jamespage: thanks <jamespage> psivaa, looks like the storage bits are working OK but the http rest gateway is broken <jamespage> I'll debug this in a bit <jamespage> (working on some ceph updates right now as it happens) <psivaa> jamespage: thanks <jamespage> psivaa, you don't happen to know how much ram a test instance gets off the top of your head do you? <psivaa> jamespage: probably 512M, that's the number i am seeing in the conf files. let me confirm it with max <psivaa> jamespage: yes just got it confirmed that it is 512 <jamespage> psivaa, hmm <jamespage> psivaa, how trivial would it be to increase that to 4G? <jamespage> I'm thinking that the radosgw might be failing to start due to lack of memory <jamespage> the system is already running three quite resource intensive daemons by that point in time. <psivaa> jamespage: afaik, the RAM is set in the conf file that is common to all jobs in the server, although by providing the vm.xml file we should be able to alter that for a singly job <psivaa> jamespage: i'll have to try that though <jamespage> psivaa, please; I can't seem to reproduce the issue using a 4G 2CPU node <psivaa> jamespage: ok, ill try that. thanks <jamespage> psivaa, thanks <phillw> balloons: ping :) <balloons> right on schedule mate <phillw> can we start with the classroom sessions? <phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom <balloons> k <phillw> one thing that will be needed is for people attending to have an iso already downloaded... care to choose one? <balloons> yes <balloons> noskcaj and I were talking about that <balloons> I was going to ask the classroom folks there thoughts <balloons> we could simply ask people to download it beforehand, but the best way to do so? <phillw> I think put it in the notes announcing the sessions? * TheLordOfTime glances in. <TheLordOfTime> you may want to poke the classroom people on that, i'm probably one of the people that would refuse do download $huge_file_or_iso just for a classroom session. <TheLordOfTime> s/do/to/ <phillw> it's not going to be very easy to explain testing an iso without one? <TheLordOfTime> true, but if you're a user who wants to help with testing but has extremely limited DL speeds or has bandwidth caps, you'd be in the same situation <TheLordOfTime> it's not a concern for me, but for others it may be. * TheLordOfTime returns to silently stabbing php5 <phillw> which brings in the importance of teaching people about using zsync... I know, it takes me about 3 - 4 hours to down load a CD sized iso! <balloons> phillw, my other thought was to grab a mini iso <phillw> i was thinking the same :) <balloons> the trouble there is you wouldn't get a full iso to play with <phillw> but you do get a fully working system which can boot, albeit in terminal mode only. <balloons> phillw, yes you would <balloons> the other option is to have people use an iso they may have <phillw> but, you can't zsync a mini.iso <balloons> if they installed ubuntu at some point, they should have an iso :-) <phillw> indeed. So asking them to either dig out their iso before the sessions, or download one if they don't still have it? <balloons> I think having them download an iso is still the best <balloons> but for those that can't, re-use one <balloons> and of course if you can't dl or re-use, well then, you probably can't test then anyway? <balloons> so you could follow along for knowledge sack <phillw> sounds reasonable. :) <phillw> if people have, e.g., got their install CD, that can be easily converted into an iso. But to run through the test cases would be better done with a raring one? <balloons> yes of course <balloons> and again, I assume they want to learn to do it <balloons> so they need to be able to grab a raring iso <phillw> which is best done before we start the classroom sessions. <balloons> yep <balloons> indeed <phillw> I'll have a chat with the classroom people about how best to advertise that to get the best from the sessions they should get a raring iso downloaded. <balloons> doesn't even matter what day, etc <balloons> you can zsync it <phillw> yup :) <balloons> yes I would ask classroom folks about making sure they come prepared <phillw> are you okay with the sessions i've volunteered you for? <balloons> yes <balloons> not sure I need 60 mins for intro though :-) <phillw> feel free to adjust the time you want :) <zyga> hey everyone <roadmr> zyga: welcome! <zyga> cr3: hey man, how are you <zyga> roadmr: one more thing on the review, is the IP good to publish now? <zyga> roadmr: is the instance (without data, properly-whitelisted) <zyga> plars_: hey! <cr3> zyga: hey dude, it's been a rough few weeks but surviving. how's cert been? <zyga> plars_: we're breaking the ice that kept the cert team on the canonical IRC ;-) <zyga> cr3: cert's rather good I think, how is your new job? video transcoding is probably a bit more challenging than testing <roadmr> zyga: the ip *will* change at some point <zyga> roadmr: I know, I just mean now, is safe to just have it there in the open? <roadmr> zyga: let's ask schwuk <zyga> ok <cr3> zyga: it's certainly different :) <zyga> cr3: we're rewriting checkbox :-) I just pushed 0.2 of the new code to the ppa <zyga> cr3: magic hardware accelerators or just plain xeons? :) <roadmr> cr3: so did they force you to get a smartphone to test the video streaming? :P <cr3> zyga: no hardware accelerators :) <cr3> roadmr: fortunately not, I still have my old dumb phone :) <balloons> lol <roadmr> cr3: hehe nice! <cr3> zyga: congrats on the new version of checkbox! <zyga> roadmr: I'm starting auto-package-testing stuff <zyga> roadmr: this may actually be useful :) <zyga> cr3: the code is on github ;) <zyga> cr3: http://github.com/zyga/plainbox <cr3> zyga: what a surprise! <zyga> cr3: but it got merged back to lp yesterday :) <zyga> brendand: hey <zyga> brendand: so you've used autopkgtest? <brendand> zyga, i what? <zyga> brendand: do you know how to use autopkgtest? <brendand> zyga, not really. i looked at it a bit at uds <zyga> brendand: ok <zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TestCaseCompetition <- those instructions don't really work <zyga> sigh <zyga> pitti: ping <balloons> zyga, there's a better page fo rit <balloons> zyga, http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html <zyga> I also saw http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html <zyga> heh <balloons> :-pp <balloons> so, what <psivaa> jamespage: making the RAM to 4G in the vm xml makes the ceph tests to pass. Now the recommended way to include these job specific requirements is by the structure that nuclearbob talks about in bug 1084515 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1084515 in UTAH "setup_jobs: Jenkins raring server raid1 jobs need two disks for successful installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084515 <balloons> zyga, so can you summarize plainbox in 2 sentences -- what's new/diff than checkbox now? <zyga> balloons: the architecture is much easier to understand and use, the code is almost fully tested and documented, plainbox does not have any actual jobs/scripts and instead is designed to process data from checkbox (package or source repo) <zyga> balloons: it will have senbile API stability and can be used to easily build third party testing tools for custom tasks <zyga> balloons: and it also solves some annoyances with checkbox / does a better job at doing the same <jamespage> psivaa, \o. <jamespage> psivaa, great news <zyga> balloons: down the road we also want to replace the UI, work on that is ongoing (design and prototypes) <balloons> zyga, ok so for now, mostly under the hood stuff <zyga> balloons: yes but the code already allows one to run most of checkbox tests, it is useful for debugging <zyga> balloons: pretty soon we'll support all tests as in checkbox, then we can start working on the UI layer <roadmr> and then... the world <balloons> mwahahahha <zyga> roadmr: shortly after the UI ;) <zyga> does anyone know how to increase the timeout for a test run <zyga> for me it's too short <pitti> zyga: pong <zyga> re <zyga> pitti, hi, I wanted to use auto-pkg-test with checkbox, initially I want to learn about the tool, I was following examples on the wiki but it seems that the operation times out before the whole test run finishes (due to network speed), do you know how to increase the timeout? <pitti> zyga: you mean if you run it locally with run-adt-test? <zyga> yes <zyga> the vm log from the prep that get started with prepare-testbed <pitti> zyga: so it doesn't seem we have a timeout option right now; but feel free to hack it locally, and we can add one <zyga> I want to change it, just a hack, to explore more <zyga> I tried to find it (before pulling my PCI-E card by accident two hours ago) but I didn't have enough luck <zyga> pitti: do you know where I can change it <pitti> zyga: according to man adt-run, something like adding --timeout-factor=5 ? <pitti> zyga: (but no, I don't know by heart, I never ran into a timeou) <pitti> zyga: sorry, need to leave; good night everyone! <Noskcaj> bug 1065789 is back :( <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1065789 in ubuntu-website-content "the 12.10 release notes link in installer points to www.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065789 <Noskcaj> the release notes link got unhidden <Noskcaj> balloons: is there any more info on the classroom sessions, i have to go after your one and maybe phillw's and need to know the times to check with my parents/younger brothers so i don't get interrupted <Noskcaj> balloons, the package tracker needs week one to stop being tested i beleive <balloons> hey Noskcaj <balloons> we were speaking about classroom sessions this morning <balloons> so, basically we're going to ask the classroom folks about getting people to pre-download the iso <balloons> I'll cc you on the email <Noskcaj> ok, just i would rather they have a day old one <Noskcaj> for syncing purposes <balloons> if it's going to happen before jan, it has to happen next week <balloons> but given the holidays, I'm not sure how many would show up <balloons> did you have want to do it before Janurary? <Noskcaj> i can do either, but remember school goes till the 19th and i live in australia <Noskcaj> school is from 9am to 3:30pm plus i have other stuff <balloons> what days off do you have in austrailia? <balloons> in janurary I mean <Noskcaj> all of them, summer holidays :) <Noskcaj> actually till the 28th <balloons> Noskcaj, nice! <balloons> well then, I think that settles it <balloons> let's do January <balloons> I <Noskcaj> ok <balloons> I'll pick an early Jan date, and we can tentatively schedule everything then <Noskcaj> sounds good <Noskcaj> what time utc is your ideal? <balloons> phillw, Jan ok with you? <balloons> umm.. now is fine for me.. it's like 7ish for you? <Noskcaj> in the morning <balloons> so I think something like 2100 or 2200 UTC might grab the most people, but I could be wrong <Noskcaj> any time from about now to 8pm AEDST is ok <balloons> I can do 1400 UTC till 2300 UTC <balloons> ok, I think you should be fine... <Noskcaj> just did the converting, we only have 2000UTC to 2300UTC if we are both to be online <balloons> yes this is our time to be online together <Noskcaj> Stupid timezones, messing with me <balloons> many people around the world are awake (except for smartboy, but he should be up soon :-p ) <Noskcaj> bug 1085171 is going to make things difficult, especially for me <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1085171 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "installer doesn't appear Ubuntu AMD 64 in Vbox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085171 <balloons> Noskcaj, u can work around it for now by loading 'try ubuntu' <balloons> then hitting 'install now' <Noskcaj> through the cli menu? <balloons> yes <balloons> on boot <Noskcaj> ok <Noskcaj> now we just need to find what causes it <balloons> xnox would know more about it <balloons> I'm guessing it was dropping metacity from ubiquity <Noskcaj> and lubuntu has a similar bug <Noskcaj> bug 1085577 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1085577 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu daily's CLI links dont work" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085577 <ScottK> balloons: Edubuntu is doing Alpha 1 now as well, so they should be added to /topic. #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-05 <zyga> good morning <pitti> Good morning <jibel> good morning everyone <pitti> bonjour jibel, Ã§a va? <jibel> Hey pitti, Ã§a va et toi ? <pitti> jibel: je vais bien! il pleut Ã Londres, surprise :) <pitti> nous amÃ©liorons daisy <jibel> pitti, heh, surprising, isn't it? I'm just on the other side of the channel and the weather is not that different :) <pitti> it even had been sunny yesterday! <pitti> I filed a bug report about it right away, of course; and it seems it got fixed quickly :-P <jibel> pitti, nice, are you improving specific parts of daisy, or daisy in general? <pitti> jibel: we designed how to detect regressions in SRUs and the dev release yesterday <pitti> I have constructed some standard .crash files on all platforms that we can use for CI testing of daisy deployments <pitti> (i. e. a package which will construct them automatically, and a package recipe to build them all with two clicks) <pitti> and I'm teaching apport to retrace ARM reports <pitti> today I'd like to fix an actual bug in daisy <Noskcaj> how do you get temporary ops status? <Noskcaj> i was going to fix the topic <gema_> xnox: ping <gema_> pitti, jibel what is pleut? snow? <gema_> :D <gema_> pluja, it is rain <pitti> gema_: non, snow == "il neige", "il pleut" -> it rains <gema_> pitti: it was all white this morning in cambridge <gema_> :D <gema_> it's melting already with the sun, though <jibel> gema_, regnen <gema_> jibel: danke <xnox> balloons: interesting, but lubuntu should be working with lxce window manager & not metacity. <xnox> gema_: heya =) <gema_> xnox: you are probably very busy, but bug 106327 called my attention and I wonder if you know who is working on it <ubot5> Launchpad bug 99188 in meta-xfce4 (Ubuntu Edgy) "duplicate for #106327 Unuable to install -- libdbh1.0-dev" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99188 <gema_> xnox: or 1060327, rather <gema_> xnox: there are plenty of duplicates being raised on this by all the manual testers <gema_> and it is blocking them <jibel> bug 1060327 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1060327 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in compiz33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abopengl33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abindTexImageGLX() from TfpTextur33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abbindTexImage() from ... from GLTextur33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abbindPixmapToTexture() from DecorTextur33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abDecorTexture()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060327 <xnox> gema_: let me talk to people. <gema_> thanks xnox, everyone is complaining but I don't see any developer activity on them, so it needs some attention <zyga> pitti: hi, is it possible to run autopkgtests for something that is in a PPA officially? <zyga> pitti: we're lookig if we can use autopkgtests to run the bulk of our daily package testing <pitti> :w <pitti> zyga: yes, run-adt-test has a --ppa option <zyga> pitti: do we need to maintain our own jenkins or can we use the same one that runs for ubuntu packages? <pitti> zyga: I'm not sure, that's a question for jibel <zyga> jibel, ara: ^^ <zyga> (ara will be interested as well) <zyga> pitti: thanks for the --ppa option, I'm tring it out now <zyga> (ara's machine crashed) <zyga> the ppa option works great, thanks pitti! <zyga> pitti: would you accept patches that add support for source branches from git, not bzr? <zyga> ara: I've just asked if we could use the autopkgtest jenkins that tests ubuntu to run our daily ppa tests as well <zyga> ara: jibel should be answer that <pitti> zyga: sure <zyga> pitti: thanks <ara> zyga, cool <ara> let see, he might be at lunch :) <zyga> oh, how ironic, autopkgtest is in git already <zyga> pitti: the upstream uses git, not bzr+launchpad, correct? <pitti> zyga: right <zyga> OMG, the code is pretty ugly <pitti> oh, you looked at it for the first time? <pitti> you may vomit now <zyga> yes <pitti> zyga: yes, it's Ian Jackson's inimitable "Perl with C64 basic identifiers that happen to be parseable Python" <zyga> is the upstream conductive to intrusive patches <zyga> like pep8 and tests? <zyga> and docs <pitti> not sure, our patches always take a while to get reviewed <pitti> might be better to ask them beforehand <zyga> simple patches or big ones <zyga> ok <zyga> eh :) <pitti> simple ones <pitti> many of them went in fast <pitti> but some have been stuck for a while * zyga looks at the .1 man page, written by hand <zyga> impressive too <zyga> pitti: yeah, it's just perl that parses as python, quite accurate <zyga> oh, python with tabs _and_ spaces <zyga> man, I need a coffee <gema_> zyga: we discussed this on the meeting you missed on Friday <gema_> :P <gema_> zyga: do you have your certs already? <zyga> gema_: hey <zyga> gema_: I'm in a meeting now, I'll get back to you soon <gema_> zyga: sure <zyga> gema_: we're starting to use autopkgtests for checkbox, so hopefully we can integrate that into the normal ubuntu testing easily <gema_> zyga: ack <zyga> gema_: that friday was unfortunate, I did miss two important meetings <gema_> zyga: ack <plars> xnox: not sure if you noticed, or if anyone mentioned, but cyphermox pushed a fix for the NM issue yesterday, and those automated jobs are starting to flow again <zyga> plars: hey <plars> xnox: I'm sure there will be more fires to fight, but at least that one is taken care of * gema_ hugs cyphermox, even though he is not here <plars> heya zyga <xnox> plars: thanks for ping. I do get jenkins rss feeds, but i am not up to date on them. <gema_> xnox: we are starting to kick with our new smoke tests, but not 100% there yet <zyga> plars: re <zyga> plars: I do but it's not based on serial <zyga> plars: it's something from the webos world but it's tiny and self-contained <zyga> plars: let me pull it up <zyga> plars: https://github.com/openwebos/novacomd this is the part that runs on the device <zyga> plars: it even has the upstart configuration file :) <zyga> plars: this is the part that runs on the "desktop" https://github.com/openwebos/novacom <plars> zyga: I'll take a look, thanks <zyga> plars: it should be interesting to build this actually <zyga> plars: I could give it a try on snowball <xnox> So the daily smokes on desktop are currently blocked by bug 1086772. I reviewed maxes fix & improved on it. <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1086772 in UTAH "iso_static_validation tests needs to change due to the renaming of vmlinuz to vmlinuz.efi" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086772 <xnox> see attached branches <ScottK> Is there a bug tag now for bugs that are regressions in the development release from the current release? It used to be regression-potential. <ScottK> Nevermind <Noskcaj> when running in live mode and selecting install ubuntu from the desktop a new tile on the launcher appears even though a link is already inplace on the launcher. <Noskcaj> if you click it the new tile isn't made <Noskcaj> what is this a bug in? <balloons> ohh you get double icons in the bar? <Noskcaj> balloons, yes <Noskcaj> also can i suggest we have a "changes" section in each testsuite, similar to netboot's <Noskcaj> third thing: why are there so many launcher tiles by defualt, they dont even fit on my VM's screen <Noskcaj> balloons: as scottk said, can you update the topic as we are testing the edubuntu alpha 1 <balloons> Noskcaj, the launcher tiles decision is ubuntu dev's <balloons> they added two more tiles last cycle <balloons> they may re-examine it at some point, but I agree it's a bit much <balloons> Noskcaj, what do you mean by a changes section? <Noskcaj> have a look at a netboot testsuites page, you will see * balloons changed the topic of #ubuntu-quality to: "Welcome to Ubuntu QA and Testing | http://qa.ubuntu.com/ | Currently testing Kubuntu and Edubuntu Alpha 1 images | http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com" <balloons> Noskcaj, ohh <balloons> that's what you mean <balloons> that lists the package changes <balloons> each iso is really made of lots of pacakge <balloons> but hmm <balloons> I wonder if listing ubiquity changelog would be useful <Noskcaj> for bug reports it would be, and thats what i was meaning. maybe also have one or two other packages that we find bugs while iso testing <Noskcaj> e.g. partman <phillw> Noskcaj: I've not been able to fully update bug 1085171 I've had an issue myself to pull out the log files that are needed bug 1086974 I'm going to switch to my CentOS system and re-attempt. <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1086036 in compiz (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1085171 Compiz driven ubiquity-dm crashes when booting raring" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086036 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1086974 in libguestfs (Ubuntu) "libguestfs: error: cannot find any suitable libguestfs supermin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086974 <Noskcaj> phillw, 1085171 is a duplicate now, even though its the older bug <phillw> Noskcaj: as long as the details are all kept together, it doesn't really matter :) <phillw> Noskcaj: as the -release team are on the case, I expect a fix real soon :) <Noskcaj> ok <phillw> Noskcaj: by the way. with reference to your classroom session... The current thinking is that people download the raring iso of what ever flavour / arch that they want to test, rather than us force them to download an iso they will not use for testing. <Noskcaj> phillw, ok, it helps if its a day old too <Noskcaj> phillw, is bug 1085825 actually a bug or just the theme being slightly difficult? <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1085825 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "lubuntu installer "hard drive, power, internet" check page has colourless ticks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085825 <Noskcaj> i have posted the questing in #lubuntu already <Noskcaj> *question <phillw> Noskcaj: I *think* that is a sort of known issue that has a base a little deeper in the theme. I'm pretty sure that Rafael is well on top of it now. <Noskcaj> ok #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-06 <EntropyWorks> the quality of the 12.10 netboot initrd.gz is questionable... <EntropyWorks> missing drivers for mlx4_en devices and also many scsi drivers. <EntropyWorks> WTF! shouldn't http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ install quantal and not precise. I just finish getting the initrd.gz to work and login to find lsb_release -a returns 12.04 <jibel> good morning <pitti> Good morning <Noskcaj> evening pitti <Noskcaj> the amd64 kubuntu alpha image freezes when you hit next with install mp3 selected <Noskcaj> can someone confirm? <jibel> good morning pitti <pitti> bonjour jibel <pitti> jibel: OOI, did you see any meaningful difference between the "old" and "new" adt? <pitti> s/difference/regression/ rather, as it actually got better in some regards <Noskcaj> running in Vbox and internet is connected, "download updates while intalling" is not selected <jibel> pitti, I didn't. the only thing was yesterday ubiquity ran and failed because not all the deps were in -proposed. This shouldn't happen anymore once test requests are send by britney <jibel> and also 2 jobs were stuck this morning (eglibc and firefox-extension), but I don't think it's related to the new adt <jibel> I restarted them and they are running fine <Noskcaj> does anyone know where the 12.10 comes from in ubiquity? <Noskcaj> question from shadeslayer <xnox> Noskcaj: I did reply...... one channel is enough =) <shadeslayer> Noskcaj: xnox answered that one :P <Noskcaj> for if someone else had something to add <zyga> better <zyga> :) <xnox> nuclearbob: heya. <nuclearbob> xnox: howdy <xnox> nuclearbob: we are very close to getting jenkins up \o/ well done. <nuclearbob> I added this to my list of channels to always join, but it doesn't seem to be working for some reason <nuclearbob> xnox: woo jenkins! <xnox> nuclearbob: me & cjwatson were pinged about bug 1061242 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1061242 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "apt-install fails during success-command because target environment cannot resolve DNS" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061242 <xnox> I did comment on it. But it is a bit confusing. <xnox> I can fix it in utah (/run must be bind-mounted to /target/run) <xnox> (this is because we are running resolvconf daemon and /etc/resolv.conf is actually a symlink to a file in /run) <xnox> But i also want to fix up a few other cosmetic issues with late_command. <xnox> But the jenkins logs do not match lp:utah. <xnox> Is jenkins using some kind of a local instance of utah? <nuclearbob> the version there should be updated to the daily package, but it usually takes a day or two for the package to get built and updated <xnox> ah. <xnox> nuclearbob: let me propose an update. Is there an easy way to test run the desktop-smoke run_list? <nuclearbob> xnox: yes. We can use the same command line that's in jekins on a test system, and it will fetch everything it needs from launchpad <xnox> nuclearbob: as in I can just copy what in jenkins? where/how do I look that up in jenkins? <xnox> that would be awesome. <ScottK> balloons: Done with Alpha 1 testing, so you can drop it from /topic. <nuclearbob> xnox: I was wrong, we haven't updated the jobs yet to do the automatic checkout. I know we merged that, so we'll have to rerun the scripts. In the interim, if you run run_utah_test.py -t desktop -s raring lp:~javier.collado/ubuntu-test-cases/desktop/runlists/default.run that should work <nuclearbob> xnox: if you're testing a local change, make sure to set the PYTHONPATH environment variable, or the scripts will ignore your path, or if you have a change you want me to test, let me know where it is <ScottK> jibel: (IIRC it was you that does this, if not sorry for the distraction) Will you do a test summary report for Alpha 1 (it should be short). * smartboyhw wonders if balloons should be the one doing test reports, as in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseTaskSignup * smartboyhw wonders why the link is bolded * ScottK thinks it's mostly running a script. * smartboyhw agrees * smartboyhw finds timezone differences making him difficult to communicate with balloons :P <xnox> nuclearbob: ok, let me work on it. * balloons changed the topic of #ubuntu-quality to: "Welcome to Ubuntu QA and Testing | http://qa.ubuntu.com/ | Next Cadence week is 8 Dec to 15 Dec | http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com" <jibel> plars, balloons the tool to generate the report is in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/qatracker-tools <jibel> will you generate the report for alpha1? * balloons looks <balloons> plars, do you have db access? <jibel> balloons, plars nm, I'll do it <ScottK> Thanks jibel. <plars> balloons1, jibel: sorry, was on a call, what's this about? <balloons> plars, the post milestone testing reports <balloons> I believe you have done one befre <plars> balloons: no, I don't have db access. jibel has generated in the past, but you and I should probably both have the ability to do that too <balloons> plars, I'm requesting now, you should do the same ;l-) <plars> balloons: I don't even know what to request access to at the moment, do you have that info already? <balloons> plars, see your pm <jibel> ScottK, balloons, plars https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/RaringAlpha1TestReport <ScottK> jibel: Thanks. <jibel> the schema of the database changed, so I wish it's ok, if it is not tell me I'll fix it. <ScottK> jibel: You usually send that to ubuntu-release, right? <jibel> ScottK, right <ScottK> Looks right to me. <xnox> nuclearbob: I guess I am missing something.... "Exception: Specified ISO: raring-desktop-amd64.iso not found on mirrors." <xnox> well it's running now. And my laptop is getting hot. <nuclearbob> xnox: that's interesting. could you tell me the version you're using so I can recreate it here? <nuclearbob> xnox: I figured out what's going on. Right now for the development version we try to use dl-ubuntu-test-iso if that's in the path, and if it's not, it looks like our fallback download method only works for released images. I'll file a bug for that. In the interim, you can install dl-ubuntu-test-iso or use the -i argument to point to an iso you've already downloaded <EntropyWorks> someone here know where I can report a bug with the netboot installer for 12.10 <Noskcaj> for today can you all try and install the mp3 codec during the install. i should freeze.(does on xubuntui686 and kubuntu amd64) <Noskcaj> Bug #1087409 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087409 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "*buntu daily's freeze when install mp3 codec is selected " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087409 <Noskcaj> bug 1085577 now has the files the devs needed <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1085577 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu daily's CLI links dont work" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085577 <Noskcaj> strange, the lubuntu guys have half fixed bug 1084729. it creates a partition table now but it still has the multiple continue bug, even if you back out of "something else" and go back in. any ideas? <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1084729 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "manual partitioning fails to create a partition table" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1084729 <xnox> nuclearbob: ok. I will try that sometime. I worked around the download image bug by monkey patching, but it failed later on with something else. But by that point I was already running a frankenstein =) #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-07 <Noskcaj> so i got access to the steam for linux beta, should we request a few codes for testing purposes? <Noskcaj> here is the page on steam linux bugs http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/1/ <Noskcaj> balloons: strange to see you on now <Noskcaj> are we going to request some steam for linux keys? <Noskcaj> i just got one today <Noskcaj> and i've already found a bug, steam is in the "internet" category in xubuntu <Noskcaj> http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/1/846939071101453348/ <zyga> good morning <Noskcaj> evening <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, strangely Steam showed up both in "Games" and "Internet" in Ubuntu Studio (which uses Xfce also) <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, interesting. add that to http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/1/846939071101453348/ <psivaa> jamespage: The i386 minimal virtual smoke tests are failing on testInstallSize with 20121207 server images, with the value of 885560 against 870400. <jamespage> psivaa, oh great :-( <psivaa> jamespage: Is it changing the testcode or reporting a bug against the server that's the best option here? <jamespage> psivaa, until we understand why its grown Iets report a bug <jamespage> lets <psivaa> jamespage: thanks <psivaa> jamespage: apologies please which pkg should i report the bug against? <jamespage> psivaa, just against ubuntu <jamespage> there is no way to know which package might be causing the issue <jamespage> psivaa, I don't support utah is doing anything different is it? <psivaa> jamespage: i am not entirely sure about that, but i dont see significant content addition by utah last night, the tests were passing until yesterday. so i guess its not utah :) <gema> xnox: I have something for you to review, we are about to go life: http://+1-905-866-7687/chris/smoke/raring/flat/, what do you think? <xnox> gema: looks very good. still playing with it. <gema> xnox: ack <psivaa> jamespage: reported bug 1087630 for the size issue, thanks <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087630 in linux (Ubuntu) "i386 server minimal virtual installations are bloated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087630 <smartboyhw> Question: Should we do a Ubuntu Quality Community in Google+? <zyga> smartboyhw: are those communities some new G+ addition? <smartboyhw> zyga, yes <zyga> smartboyhw: what can they do <smartboyhw> Probably balloons will set it up <smartboyhw> zyga, discussion:P <Noskcaj> balloons: are we going to try and get a few steam beta keys for testing? i got one yesterday of my own <balloons> Noskcaj, ahh I missed you last night <balloons> I too am in the beta <balloons> no, we don't have any plans to do specific testing of steam. however, the focus of making sure ubuntu runs well for gaming helps out everything (gaming and otherwise) <Noskcaj> ok <Noskcaj> i noticed it shows up in both "internet" and "games" in xubuntu <Noskcaj> should you be able to have more than one partition table during the install? <balloons> Noskcaj, per disk <balloons> each physical disk needs one <Noskcaj> ok, then the manual partitioning bug only half exists now <Noskcaj> balloons, what day does the candence week start? <balloons> Noskcaj, tomorrow <Noskcaj> ok <balloons> I have to update the wiki today, and I will send around an email <Noskcaj> bug 1087823 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087823 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "in the manual partitioning page the "new partition table" gets more buttons every time you click it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087823 <Noskcaj> new bug, there is no background for lubuntu's login screen * zyga feels that adding plainbox to checkbox tree was a mistake :/ <zyga> it makes testing harder <Noskcaj> ? <Noskcaj> can someone try and make a proper netboot testcase? use my ppc one as the basis of it <zyga> netboot is hard <zyga> and ppc? <zyga> did you really mean ppc as in power-pc? <zyga> each platform boots differently, you probably know this just as well as I do <Noskcaj> yup zyga <Noskcaj> yes <zyga> arm zoo, x86 bios, efi+secure boot <zyga> is ppc still using yamon? <zyga> er was that mips? <Noskcaj> ask someone else, i just run the testcases in terms of ppc <Noskcaj> i know its very broken at the moment though <zyga> I see <zyga> what ppc hardware are yu using? <zyga> you <Noskcaj> a ibook g4, i haven't been able to get a proper hardware profile <zyga> ah, mac <zyga> ppc mac is obsolete and new-age ppc, non-mac hardware is rare <Noskcaj> yeah, just a few people still use these macs as their main pc and it helps for the new-age ones as well <Noskcaj> but there is no longer a ppc mac that "just works", we need to run a lot of commands to get them working <Noskcaj> phillw, there is no background for lubuntu's login screen. is this a bug? <phillw> Noskcaj: I've not seen any chatter on the mailing list / bug reports for this. So, I'd suggest you raise a bug. <Noskcaj> ok, will do. what's it a bug in? <phillw> I'd go for lubuntu-artwork <Noskcaj> ok <phillw> if you can actually log-in, then that is a good place to start :) <Noskcaj> yeah, you can <Noskcaj> 1087848 <Noskcaj> bug 1087848 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087848 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "no login background lubuntu daily 13.04 amd64" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087848 <Noskcaj> as always; can someone confirm <phillw> Noskcaj: ask on the l-qa mailing list. I'm on my 3G device over the weekend & have over-run my data allowance a few times :/ <Noskcaj> ok <Noskcaj> done <phillw> Noskcaj: the bug has just arrived in my email box. All those in lubuntu automatically notified will have received it. <Noskcaj> yep <xnox> nuclearbob: I've seen the comment on one merge proposal, that my networking fix did not work. Do you have testing logs by any chance? I see that you are now fighting with subsequently discovered failures. <xnox> For some reason locally, I am not seeing the same detailed output as shown in jenkins - e.g. I don't get any guest vm installer syslog. <nuclearbob> xnox: where was the comment about it not working? <nuclearbob> I haven't had any trouble with it on VMs, but I also haven't managed to frankenstein together a version that's gotten me a succesfful bare metal test either. <xnox> oh. <nuclearbob> at the moment, I have no reason to believe it doesn't work, did you get that feedback from someone else? <xnox> nuclearbob: I may have misread https://code.launchpad.net/~nuclearbob/utah/desktop-resolvconf/+merge/138236/comments/299581 <xnox> So the https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/utah/fix-chroot/+merge/138522 still "pending" verification/review? <xnox> nuclearbob: what is the difference between lp:utah & lp:utah/trunk ? <nuclearbob> yeah, I think I meant mine doesn't work on the current raring ISOs <nuclearbob> lp:utah is the development branch, and lp:utah/trunk doesn't get updated from the development branch until we've tested it and confirmed stability <nuclearbob> hm, no, mine does work on the current raring ISOs. What did I mean? <xnox> =)))))))))))) <nuclearbob> okay, I remember now. We merged mine, and it works, but I think yours is better and more correct in the long term, so I wanted to test it on physical hardware and then merge it, and thus back out mine <xnox> nuclearbob: well my branch reverts only the small portion of your merge. As your merge had other good refactoring in it. <nuclearbob> yeah, exactly. that thing you said <nuclearbob> today I've been focusing on some smoke testing stuff that's still broken, so I haven't circled back around to doing a physical hardware test of your proposal yet <nuclearbob> but I can try to get that setup before EOD <xnox> nuclearbob: and I cannot confirm my fix using VMs. So in the mean time I'll try to fix my utah setup. <nuclearbob> xnox: if you want to pastebin me your output I might be able to tell you why you're not seeing a syslog? <xnox> nuclearbob: let me find / recreate that. <xnox> nuclearbob: I was trying to find your utah school slides and didn't find them again. But in short I wanted to lookup: which packages are a must locally, which ones are harmless and which should never be installed on the host. <nuclearbob> utah, which, as of the current dev version pulls in utah-client and utah-common, is a must, and all of those have dependencies that are important <nuclearbob> cobbler, vm-tools and dl-ubuntu-test-iso all support non-essentialy functionality <nuclearbob> I'm not sure if I have a never list <xnox> ok, so I didn't break my laptop yet :D <nuclearbob> yep. we did a lot of work last cycle to try to make it really hard to break things :) <balloons> hello chilicuil <Noskcaj> what are the EC2 testcases? i have never understood what they do <balloons> we don't test them Noskcaj <balloons> they are automated tests run by the server guys <Noskcaj> oooooooookkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy??? <Noskcaj> oh <balloons> yea <balloons> he <balloons> heh <Noskcaj> now i understand <nuclearbob> xnox: I had a mostly successful run with your changes on a physical machine. My only concern is that at one point I lost contact with the machine and ended up power cycling it. After that, it came up and worked, but I'm running the test again to see if the preseed is rebooting properly if it's shutting down instead for some reason <xnox> =/ <nuclearbob> xnox: had the same thing happen again. I'm going to dig into the code and make sure I didn't frankenstein something wrong, and then experiment with different preseed options a bit. I'll do that firs thing next week <xnox> nuclearbob: I am not going crazy about missing logs. <xnox> http://jenkins.qalab:8080/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-desktop-amd64-smoke-default/21/artifact/ <xnox> http://jenkins.qalab:8080/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-desktop-amd64-smoke-default/20/artifact/ <xnox> note the syslog size. <xnox> zero in 21 (success case) and large in 20 (fail). #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-08 <xnox> but it would be extremely useful to get provisioning syslog out in either case. <xnox> and i mean jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com in above URLs. * xnox goes to fix my hosts. <SergioMeneses> hi guys! <SergioMeneses> phillw, are you busy now? <phillw> SergioMeneses: never too busy to help <SergioMeneses> jeje that's the spirit! <phillw> SergioMeneses: I'm just setting up a new Virtual Machine for a team, so please accept that it may may take 30 - 60 seconds to reply. But, I am still here and will answer <wigs> Is there a process besides uploading to -proposed to get the SRU team to review a patch? <wigs> ubuntu-sponsors refuse to upload without an ACK from the SRU team. <xnox> wigs: do you have a bug number? <xnox> wigs: or reference to such a request? <wigs> bug 831768 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu Precise) "aptitude cannot handle conflicts with multiarch enabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768 <xnox> wigs: that beast. so is the precise debdiff attached at the bug report correct? <wigs> xnox: Yes. <Noskcaj> That. is a big bug. how has it been unfixed so long? <xnox> wigs: subscribed sru-team & requested a review. All sru-team members should get an email about it now. <xnox> wigs: Noskcaj: this bug has extremely high chance of regression in a stable release. Personally I would be against sru'ing this. <wigs> xnox: Thanks. I had thought ubuntu-sru subscription was it. <xnox> np. <wigs> Noskcaj: Aptitude has been unmaintained for a long time, and it's dependency resolver is hairy. <Noskcaj> ok <Noskcaj> and i thought bug 1066435 was a big problem <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1066435 in linux (Ubuntu) "powerpc: "Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed!"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066435 <wigs> Noskcaj: The fix has been available since September. An incorrect status on the sponsorship overview resulted in two long stints on that queue before it was uploaded to Quantal. <wigs> but you know :-/ <Noskcaj> oh <wigs> xnox: I agree about the high chance, though reports from users indicate there is no breakage, and this package is quite broken by the bug. <Noskcaj> y <wigs> Noskcaj: The open bug task on Precise caused the report to say âSRU (Precise)â even though the sponsorship request was actually for upload to Quantal. The person that looked at the request only did so briefly, and removed it from the queue due to lack of SRU fields in the description. <Noskcaj> i think i understnd what you two are talking about <Noskcaj> can someone confirm bug 1087409? <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087409 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "*buntu daily's freeze when install mp3 codec is selected " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087409 <nm_geo> interesting ubiquity bug 1085961 which I marked as affecting me. It is a along side install failure that collin watson fixed in ubiquity 2.13.7 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1085961 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Unable to install two raring desktops side-by-side" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085961 <nm_geo> What's interesting today is Lubuntu desktop amd64 20121207 fails in the same manner., but I am installing Ubuntu desktop amd64 20121207 and it is installing just fine along side after re-sizing the partitions <smartboyhw> Does anyone know who is/are the owner(s) of the Laptop QA Tracker? <grabnheisla> hello <phillw> smartboyhw: I don't, but stgraber may be able to answer that one :) <smartboyhw> phillw, I know now <smartboyhw> phillw, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-laptop-testing-admins <phillw> ah, okies :) <smartboyhw> It is skaet plus primes2h <smartboyhw> Though both of them are not in this channel <smartboyhw> Nor in #ubuntu-release <phillw> kate does have a life away from ubuntu :P <smartboyhw> phillw, :P <smartboyhw> bye guy <smartboyhw> s/guy/guys <Noskcaj> is anyone able to confirm bug 1087797 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087797 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "install ubuntu crush on Asus F5RL" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087797 <Noskcaj> just found something interesting. the ubuntu daily (i686 at least) has no "close" option in firefox. i.e. no minimise, maximise, close <Noskcaj> does the laptop team have a separate irc channel, because i just found a very interesting bug for one laptop in particular. bug 1087797 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087797 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "install ubuntu crush on Asus F5RL" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087797 <Noskcaj> can someone confirm bug 1088054 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1088054 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Release notes firefox has no "minimise, maximise, close" buttons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1088054 <Noskcaj> phillw: does the laptop team have a separate irc channel or just use this one? i found a very interesting bug for one laptop in particular. bug 1087797 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1087797 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "install ubuntu crush on Asus F5RL" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087797 <phillw> Noskcaj: from what I've read, they state to use here. <Noskcaj> then laptop people: someone needs to confirm this bug <Noskcaj> also phillw: as no-one else ever responds on this channel, are you able to get the ubuntu daily iso? (any architexture) <phillw> Noskcaj: I'm on my 3G device, data allowance trickles through my hands at an alarming rate :/ <Noskcaj> oh yeah, forgot <Noskcaj> the i will message random lurkers till i get a responce <Noskcaj> TheDrums, trijntje: can both of you download an ubuntu daily iso? <Noskcaj> tubadaz, toddy, Ursinha do that as well <toddy> I download the daily iso. three minutes to go, Noskcaj <Noskcaj> toddy, your now my favourite lurker. say things more often <Noskcaj> i just need someone to confirm 1088054 #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-09 <TheDrums> Sure, technically I can download the ubuntu daily, but don't see how it'd help. <Noskcaj> TheDrums, bug 1088054 needs confirmation <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1088054 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Release notes firefox has no "minimise, maximise, close" buttons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1088054 <TheDrums> But that'd require more than just downloading, which would be *painfully* slow at this point. (That should technically be on L/X/K too, I'd think) <Noskcaj> nope, just ubuntu <Noskcaj> it has to do with unity, have a look at the screenshot <TheDrums> Ah, well Ubuntu/Unity wouldn't work on here, much less so if I were to try in VBox, sorry. <Noskcaj> oh, never mind <Noskcaj> does anyone know why balloons hasn't been on. he told me he would have the candence week 2 wiki up yesterday <phillw> Noskcaj: no doubt real life stuff? <phillw> which page are you referring to? <Noskcaj> idk, he just said he would have all the week 2 stuff up on the wiki and would send out an email about it #ubuntu-quality 2012-12-10 <pitti> Good morning <jalcine> Morning, pitti <jalcine> I'm heading to bed in an hour, though haha <jibel> good morning <pitti> bonjour jibel <jibel> Bonjour pitti , comment va tu ? <jibel> *vas-tu <pitti> jibel: Ã§a va bien, et toi? j'ai eu une bonne we <pitti> et je suis Ã maison a nouveau <pitti> "Ã " nouveau, je crois <jibel> pitti, super, ton voyage s'est bien passÃ© ? <jibel> pitti, correct, "Ã nouveau" <pitti> oui, alors que il va neigÃ© <jibel> ah, pas de neige ici, il fait entre 5 et 10Â°C <pitti> jibel: j'aime notre nouveaux bureaux, est-ce que tu le sais? <pitti> err, "nouveau bureau", just one <jibel> pitti, non, je connaissais les anciens, mais je ne suis pas encore allÃ© dans les nouveaux <pitti> tÃ¢che la plus difficile: acheter une carte postale :) <dholbach> pitti, would Thursday be OK for you too? <dholbach> jibel answered already <pitti> dholbach: yeah, should work fine <dholbach> sweet <dholbach> and a hangout session, maybe some time in the European morning (maybe repeat it some time later on again?) would work? the rest of the time we'd spend in here(?) and answer questions and help out? <dholbach> does that sound like a good plan? <dholbach> if so, I'd start working on an announce <pitti> hangout seems fairly unstable these days, but yes, we can try <dholbach> I'll have didrocks in the morning hangout on Thursday, who wanted to talk about unity+automated tests on their end as well <dholbach> hope that won't add up to confusions <dholbach> but I guess it should be fine <dholbach> great <dholbach> I'm so looking forward to this :) <dholbach> jibel, thanks a lot for updating RequiredTests <pitti> let's see how many interested people turn up, indeed <dholbach> yep :) <jamespage> dholbach, updating the wiki now * dholbach hugs jamespage <jibel> dholbach, yw <h01ger> hi <zyga> hi <balloons> hello <balloons> Noskcaj, howdy <Noskcaj> hey balloons <balloons> how are you? <Noskcaj> good, you? <balloons> not too bad.. <balloons> working on testcases, per the usual. <balloons> I'm excitied to see some uptake of autopilot <Noskcaj> i should probably try and do some autopilot stuff, except i'm on xubuntu so things may get difficult <balloons> Noskcaj, not neccessarily <Noskcaj> and my VM's may not get enough ram <balloons> I'd be happy to help go through a case with you <balloons> you should be able to run and develop on your main desktop <Noskcaj> ok <Noskcaj> what do i do/install <balloons> well, the blog posts I wrote really do a nice job, if you haven't gone through them <balloons> but you need "python-autopilot" <Noskcaj> i will do that now <balloons> once you go the basics, I can help you do a testcase for an app you like <Noskcaj> ok, i may as well make an xchat one as it is a default program in xubuntu * balloons <3 xchat <Noskcaj> have you heard any more about
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