#ubuntu-desktop 2008-08-29 * NCommander is convienced he has no life <NCommander> ok, this makes sense <tedg> mpt: Are you running Intrepid? <mpt> tedg, not right now, why? <mpt> (Intrepid ignores my trackpad at the moment) <tedg> mpt: I was curious if you'd had a chance to look at the fusa applet. <mpt> How long has it been in? <tedg> mpt: I just fixed my trackpad on Intrepid... PITA... I still don't have it perfect. <tedg> 3 days. <tedg> I have on quick question though, what to do when there is no IM client. <mpt> I have the Aug 26 daily live <mpt> then don't show the status items <tedg> Right now I default to "Offline" <tedg> Don't show them at all, or make them insensitive? <mpt> don't show them at all <tedg> Doesn't that equate to "disappearing" functionality? <tedg> Menus that appear and disappear and users not knowing why? <mpt> but they don't appear and disappear <mpt> (What did I say?:-) <mpt> tedg, having something insensitive usually implies that there's something you can do to make it sensitive <tedg> mpt: Sorry, apparently unplugging my tablet causes X to crash... <tedg> I probably missed your last couple messages. <mpt> I don't think it's reasonable to have insensitive items dependent on software that isn't even installed <mpt> (You didn't miss anything) <tedg> Well, in theory it'd be installed. Just not running. <tedg> Pidgin is in the default install. <mpt> Oh, sorry, by "no IM client" I thought you meant "no IM client installed" <mpt> If installed but not running, then sure, "Offline" <tedg> No, no IM client running. <mpt> and setting any other status should launch it. <mpt> (And set that status once it's launched.) <tedg> Hmm, that may be tricky. We don't really know which IM client the user is using. <mpt> Presumably the same one that you treat as Canonical if Pidgin and Empathy are both open and set to different statuses. :-) <tedg> There's no "Preferred Application" for IM. <mpt> er, "canonical" with a small c <tedg> I actually, in that case, report the "most available". <mpt> durnit <tedg> I'm thinking that we should hide the icon on the bar, and make the menu items insensitive. <tedg> That way if folks only run IRC in a terminal window, they get the panel space back. <tedg> And if they want the menu space, they can set the GConf setting. <mpt> So, default to Pidgin (since that's the one in the default install), falling back to Empathy if Pidgin's not there and Empathy is, and report a bug asking for IM client to go in Preferred Applications. <crevette> tedg, you're the one that did the FUSA thingy with IM integration <crevette> ? <mpt> crevette, yes, that's what we're discussing <tedg> Hmm, I'm thinking that the only way we could start Pidgin is to hard code the path to it's desktop file... kinda messy. <asac> you could also look which profile was last used (if both are installed, but not running) <tedg> crevette: yes. <tedg> asac: Profile? <crevette> tedg, good job, just one thing, could you use more tangoish icons, as pidgin use for status ? <asac> config folder <asac> in home directory ... (if they have) <tedg> crevette: Yeah, I threw in GTK+ stock icons for FF to get the features in. I'm discussing the icons with the art team, though I'll probably steal some for the short term to make it prettier. <crevette> okay <kwwii> tedg: can you send me a list of the icons it uses? Maybe I'll find some time to make them <kwwii> tedg: I'm not promising anything but having the information can't hurt :-) <tedg> asac: They seem to have folders, but atleast with Empathy, it doesn't seem to be touching them. I could look at their log files maybe. <tedg> kwwii: Okay, will do. <tedg> mpt: I guess my question comes down to, should "offline" and "no client" be different states? <asac> tedg: usually history files are regularly touched <mpt> tedg, logging is off in Pidgin by default, but when seb128 got back I was going to ask him if he could turn it on by default, because upstream are interested in knowing whether anyone will scream if that happens <mpt> (they're skittish about turning it on by default for everyone) <andreasn> crevette: the presence icons are already set in the naming-spec, so maybe we can just put the pidgin icons into gnome-icon-theme and refer to those names <tedg> Hmm, so there might not be any files they touch regularly :) <kwwii> asac: I have a couple of teams working on themes...to do anything really nifty they also have to include a chrome file for FF, so my question is how should I install that? <tedg> andreasn: Really, I couldn't find anyone who'd implemented them.. what are their names? <kwwii> andreasn: so they are in the spec but the icons do not exist right? <mpt> tedg, certainly "no client" should be a different state, because in that case you have very little idea whether someone is offline or not. They might (for example) be online in Skype and not care about anything else. <asac> kwwii: what kind of chrome file is that? <andreasn> kwwii: yes, exactlu <andreasn> exactly I mean :) <kwwii> andreasn: sounds like a good place for me to start making gnome icons :p <andreasn> the names are user-away, user-idle, user-offline and user-online <tedg> andreasn: Well someone should be yelling at Empathy of not using them now that they're a GNOME App. <andreasn> tedg: yeah, and someone should yell at me for not including them in gnome-icon-theme :/ * andreasn sneaks away.... <tedg> ANDREASN!!! Oh, darnit, he got away. ;) <tedg> mpt: Okay, so in the "no client" state -- panel icon is "Offline" or "else" or hidden? <kwwii> asac: it changes the text color of the menus (since FF doesn't seem to do that right from the gtk theme) as well as the status bar text color <kwwii> asac: so it is something we don't want to set at installation as these will not be the default themes <mpt> tedg, just show the person's name I think <mpt> since it's just an account switcher + quit-mode-chooser at this point <asac> kwwii: ok. would it be appropriate to make a complete skin extension out of that? <asac> maybe with more contributions? <tedg> mpt: Okay. <Zdra> andreasn, tedg: I'm all for using icon naming spec for status icons... but dobey can't understand provided names are wrong <crevette> andreasn, hey <tedg> mpt: I've built GConf keys to disable all the features we've added. So the people who don't want us to ever change anything can return it to before. Should I throw those in the prefs dialog, or just leave them as things people can edit in gconf-editor? <kwwii> asac: yes, what does that involve? how does that work? <crevette> andreasn, presence icons is in naming-spec ?? cool, so we can has theme <crevette> :) <mpt> tedg, there's a prefs dialog?? <Zdra> andreasn, tedg, crevette: we need icons corresponding to those statuses: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec.html#type-Connection_Presence_Type <andreasn> crevette: sure, under standard status: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html <tedg> mpt: Yeah, for whether you want your name or "Users" or a couple other things. Pretty sparse. <andreasn> Zdra: ah, and pretty much all of thoee are used by regular apps like pidgin and empathy, right? <mpt> tedg, how is it accessed? <Zdra> andreasn: the problems with the icon spec are: 1) user-idle is the same as user-away. 2) user-busy does not exists. 3) user-hidden does not exists <tedg> mpt: Right click on the FUSA applet. Should work on Hardy also. <mpt> tedg, that's not forward-compatible <crevette> Zdra, yeah I was looking for 3) too <tedg> I'd have to say, I've never understood hidden. <tedg> It seems like a "I trust everyone else's client not to lie" mode. <Zdra> tedg: when you set your presence to hidden to server tells all users you are offline <tedg> mpt: What do you mean, we can keep those keys to disable the features forever -- even if makes less and less sense. <asac> kwwii: basically its getting the chrome files in a .xpi ... and then let it package by our extension team <mpt> tedg, I mean, right-clicking on a panel applet isn't :-) <andreasn> Zdra: I would personally don't get the distinction between user-idle and user-away, but I certainly agree that the naming-spec and telepathy should use the same stuff, because them being incompatible is like, weird <mpt> tedg, but sure, put them in there if you like, I don't really care about that <tedg> Zdra: I don't that ICQ implemented it that way, perhaps Jabber is better :) (/me is old school :) ) <kwwii> asac: so doing it that way would allow one to choose it (or we could set it on install of theme itself) <kwwii> ? <andreasn> Zdra: anyway, I better run now, I'll bring it up with some other artists and see if I _might_ be able to get dobey to change his mind (but don't count on it :/ ) <tedg> mpt: Okay, I was just curious if you had thoughts. My initial thought was yes, but then I was thinking that we might not want to make it easy for people to avoid our new features :) <mpt> The better designed something is, the fewer options it needs <asac> kwwii: i think switching the default globally would be trickier. in any case, the user would be able to choose/switch back <Zdra> andreasn: right, telepathy is fd.o like the icon naming spec. So I think they both should provide the same set of status types. If you can change the spec I'll use those names for empathy icons for sure ;) <asac> kwwii: however, on first restart the addons manager pops up and highlights the new theme <mpt> tedg, it would be much easier to not show them now and introduce them later, than to introduce them now and remove them later <tedg> mpt: We just need one flag in the user's account "I hate change" and they can flip that, all in one place :) <asac> kwwii: so its not like the user doesnt have a chance to know how to select it <mpt> tedg, it concerns me (and this is a general problem) that early adopters may end up with a nasty-looking clumsy-to-use OS because we never brought them up to date with the new hotness. <kwwii> asac: excellent, that sounds like what we want to do <kwwii> asac: I'll probably be in touch about this soon <asac> kwwii: welcome. <tedg> mpt, yeah, we kinda need a "Revert to distro defaults" button that would reset things like the panel and such. So that people could run that every few updates. <tedg> mpt: That way they won't loose their app settings, but could get different things on the panel for instance. <mpt> tedg, right, soon we'll need to start designing not just features, but also sensitive upgrades to those new features. <vuntz> tedg: I'd never use a "revert to distro defaults" for the panel -- I'd lose my panel changes... <Zdra> andreasn: I think it's important to note the way telepathy works: we have a string describing each possible status, depending on the protocol you could have "gone-eating", "phone-call", etc... For each presence string that can be anything, the backend gives the presence's category. So "gone-eating" and "phone-call" are both in the "busy" category. Categories are protocol-independent so we need one icon for each. Of course more icons can be ad <Zdra> ded later for special presence of particular protocols but it's not required since we can use the generic icon of the presence type. <tedg> Perhaps that's a place of an external utility. We could have a GConf key for "Ubuntu UI Version" and then when that gets incremented it could pop up and say "The Ubuntu UI has been upgraded, would you like to update your settings?" <tedg> vuntz: Yes, but I'll put you the class of "Experienced Panel User" ;) <vuntz> tedg: okay, so your issue is mainly that the way the panel config is described is inherently broken when it comes to default settings <vuntz> I would fix this first :-) <vuntz> (not saying I will do it soon) <tedg> vuntz: Yes, that's one problem, but the other is that people might have removed something like the fast-user switch applet because they didn't want fast user switching. Now we've added IM support and they may want it back. How do they know? <vuntz> by reading the "what's new" page about the new release? <vuntz> they don't want it back if they don't know about it ;-) <tedg> I was also talking about this with kwwii about new themes. Let's say we add a new theme to the ubuntu-themes package, how do they know they have a new theme to choose? <tedg> vuntz: I'm from America, no one reads here ;) <tedg> vuntz: We have Fox News to read things for us. <vuntz> interesting to think about all this, though <tedg> What I had talked about with kwwii was perhaps we have the package touch a file somewhere in var, and then a little listener can know the date of the file last time, it looked and notice an updated touch of that file. It'd be simple, but probably work. <tedg> For the theme case, I'm not sure it'd work for the large "UI Change" issue. <kwwii> asac: can you point me to the original theme files (I assume in the firefox package, which I luckily have on my machine) <asac> kwwii: most is native, but there are themes files in xulrunner-1.9*/chrome/classic.jar and same for firefox-3.0*/chrome/classic.jar <kwwii> asac: excellent, I'll check it out, thanks <tedg> kwwii: Oh, BTW, this bzr branch "lp:~ted-gould/inkscape/devbuild" should install a separate binary and desktop file and use your icon. I haven't had a chance to package it or anything like that. But it does work. <tedg> kwwii: Thanks for the icon! <RainCT> Hi <RainCT> Can someone have a look at bug #262723? <ubottu> Launchpad bug 262723 in human-icon-theme "Gnome and Human icon themes do not contain icon caches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262723 #ubuntu-desktop 2008-08-30 <RainCT> where's the right place to file feature requests for gnome-appearance-properties? <jpds> RainCT: gnome-control-center on bugs.gnome.org? Component Appearance? <RainCT> jpds: thanks <bhati> can anyone help me with sound problem of sony vaio VGN-B1XP #ubuntu-desktop 2008-08-31 <Tanya> halooooooooooooooooooooo #ubuntu-desktop 2009-08-01 <bcurtiswx> hi all, do you know that the empathy sounds aren't in the default ubuntu sound theme? <bcurtiswx> i have a bug filed, that since empathy is going to default the empathy sounds should be a part of the default theme <bcurtiswx> bug #400485 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 400485 in ubuntu-sounds "Empathy sounds not in default ubuntu theme" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400485 <bcurtiswx> in there it lists where to get the sounds from <fta> chrisccoulson, just made a quick C test to check statvfs() on "/", it's ok, f_frsize=4096 f_bavail=1131332 f_bfree=1181332. f_frsize * f_bavail = (572)227-8934, "df -B 1 /" gives me (572)227-8934, close enough for me <rkakkar> Hi Folks <rkakkar> I want to contribute to the Ubuntu ....... <rkakkar> From where should I start . * hyperair wonders if any dd here's interested in sponsoring a gtk2-engines-aurora package into debian. =p * bcurtiswx wonders if anyone here wants to talk about getting the empathy sounds into the ubuntu default sound theme <Keybuk> so, how *do* you turn off the custom search? <kklimonda> Keybuk: disable multisearch add-on <Keybuk> what does that do? <kklimonda> I don't know what it does but It turns on custon search for that ;) <Keybuk> yay that worked #ubuntu-desktop 2009-08-02 <kklimonda> should we include upstream changelogs/NEWS files in package's changelog and commit message? <kklimonda> and what if there were two upstream releases in the meantime? <kklimonda> for packages that are maintainer in ubuntu-desktop bzr branches should I subscribe ubuntu-{universe/main}-sponsors as usual or ubuntu-desktop team? <kklimonda> maintained* <pitti> Hello all <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm much better again, thanks :) greetings from Dublin <pitti> didrocks: hey, how are you; yes, I'm quite alright again, just some remaining sore throat <chrisccoulson> hi pitti! how's dublin? are you drinking the guiness yet? <pitti> chrisccoulson: haven't seen much yet, just had a quick snack <pitti> chrisccoulson: nah, I better abstain alcohol for the next few days yet :) <chrisccoulson> might be a good idea! <pitti> chrisccoulson: we'll have a Guiness brewery tour on Thursday, I won't miss that :) <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine that would be fun ;) <chrisccoulson> no more gnome-applets hal dependency \o/ <pitti> yay Chris! <pitti> chrisccoulson: re g-applets again, I just replied, but in summary: with your current level of involvement it should be fine for you to "just do it", and see if anyone complains :) <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i can disable both then. there's still time to see if users complain about it anyway ;) <pitti> X.org migration is currently being discussed on the devkit ML, but I doubt it'll make karmic <pitti> other than that, the main thing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy is music players <pitti> we got pretty far in karmic \o/ <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's quite good. i think the biggest remaining one is Xorg now <pitti> well, and Solid of course, but I didn't really count that yet <chrisccoulson> i take it that rhythmbox depends on "identify media players and capabilities" doesn't it? <pitti> right <chrisccoulson> is anyone working on that? <pitti> I convered the hal-fdi stuff into udev rules and "*.mpi" files, but this actually needs to get used by RB <pitti> Christophe was, but I don't know the current status * pitti asks <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll let you know when he replies (seems AFK right now) <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. <pitti> chrisccoulson: hah, just saw your mugshot, nice! <pitti> "Put the metal to the pedal to the other metal!" <chrisccoulson> lol! i like futurama ;) <pitti> I love it <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can sit watching it for hours! <pitti> I never became warm with Simpsons, but Futurama is gorgeous * pitti has all episodes on disk <chrisccoulson> right, i've got to go and do some painting now before my girlfriend returns from her shopping trip, else she'll think i've spent all day on om my computer <pitti> chrisccoulson: and of course you did! :-) <chrisccoulson> yeah, most of the day;) <pitti> chrisccoulson: anyway, don't mess with SWMBO, cu later! <chrisccoulson> haha, thanks. enjoy your stay in dublin:) <didrocks> pitti: I'm fine too, thanks. Happy that's getting better for you :) <chrisccoulson> yessss! painting finished! <pitti> chrisccoulson: that was quick <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i only had some wood to paint. and just in time too - she just arrived back home ;) <pitti> chrisccoulson: so how come you can _still_ be at the computer? :-) <pitti> shouldn't she show you all the new fancy dresses and shoes? <chrisccoulson> i'll have to go down and make a drink soon ;) <pitti> chrisccoulson: FYI: teuf| pitti: I think moch had a basic patch, but as far as I know, it's not online <pitti> chrisccoulson: so, we shouldn't hold our breath <fta> chrisccoulson, the disk free bug is related to 32bit overflows. (5059301376-2^32)/1024/1024 = 729M, which is what the pop reports <kklimonda> who should I subscribe to update bugs for packages that are maintained in ubuntu-desktop bzr branches for sponsoring? <kklimonda> universe-sponsors, ubuntu-desktop or both? <kklimonda> (universe/main) #ubuntu-desktop 2009-08-03 <markot06> Hi, none of the OpenOffice apps start from either Applications menu or terminal (although processes seem to be created). Can anyone help? <didrocks> good morning <huats> morning everyone <ruslanr> huats: good morning <huats> morning ruslanr <didrocks> morning huats <huats> monring mr didrocks <pitti> bonjour, good morning, guten Morgen, Ð´Ð¾Ð±ÑÐ¾Ð¸Ð¹ ÑÑÑÐ¾, etc. <didrocks> hey pitti <hggdh> bom dia <hggdh> desktop folks: bug 408095 seems a clear case of papercut; I have attached a debdiff <ubottu> Launchpad bug 408095 in gnome-settings-daemon ""Disable touchpad while typing" should ignore modifier keys when monitoring keyboard activity" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408095 <asac> seb128: ping <asac> seb128: you dont listen ;) <asac> seb128: we have gnome-shell in the archive, but not mutter? <asac> how des that work? <seb128> asac, listen where, in the room? <seb128> asac, it's the combination of a wrong dput target and an archive admin NEWing it before a reliased <seb128> realized <seb128> asac, didrocks is supposed to get mutter in universe, he said he would work on it this weekend <didrocks> seb128: it's done, you can have a revu at http://www.didrocks.fr/temp/package/mutter_2.27.1-0ubuntu1.dsc <seb128> asac, ^ <didrocks> seb128: I opened an ITP BUT! <didrocks> I saw that there is one version in pkg-gnome <seb128> didrocks, did I say that I dislike REVU ;-) <didrocks> without any ITP :/ <seb128> you should just upload <seb128> didrocks, who worked on it? <didrocks> kov <seb128> ok, will talk to him <didrocks> seb128: I didn't use revu, it's just on my server if you want to keep an eye on it <seb128> when did he start on it? <didrocks> seb128: something like 5-7 days for the first commit <seb128> didrocks, oh, I misread, I did review the ppa version already I think <didrocks> seb128: yes, I made some slights modification, but nothing important <didrocks> so. I don't know if I upload as Debian will have one soon... <didrocks> (it's not in debian NEW) <seb128> didrocks, I will talk to kov <didrocks> seb128: ok, keep me in touch :) <asac> seb128: yes in the room ... i was trying to get your attention ;) <asac> anyway. thanks. so gnome-shell went in by accident for now <seb128> sorry was chatting with somebody and didn't notice that <seb128> asac, right <seb128> asac, I didn't bother to get it out because we are just mutter away from getting in now anyway <asac> seb128: no prob ... just funny to chat with you stting like 3 meters away ;) * didrocks hopes you don't drink Guiness during working in the sprint :/ <seb128> didrocks, don't worry I don't like dark beer <seb128> ie no guiness <didrocks> guiness is well better in Ireland than in France <seb128> still <didrocks> I tested it during 6 monthes being in Ireland :) <seb128> didrocks, btw you should just upload mutter to universe <seb128> didrocks, you have been in dublin? <didrocks> seb128: yes, I have been living there 6 monthes during my final internship <seb128> oh nice <seb128> is there any city part you recommend to hang out in the evening ? <didrocks> oh yes, despite the weather, Ireland is a really great country with friendly people :) <seb128> they talk a weird language <didrocks> "how's you doing", "how mouch" :) <seb128> ;-) <didrocks> seb128: temple bar of course, at least once to see the lights, etc. <didrocks> seb128: let me take a map :) <didrocks> seb128: saint stephen's Green really worth a walk (and st stephen's green shopping centre too). Dawson street is awesome when the lights turn on. <didrocks> seb128: of course, there is the main street with the "spire" and the post office (lovely) <seb128> the post office is that next a building looking like a church? <didrocks> exactly <seb128> ok, we have been there yesterday <seb128> dawson street is nice indeed <seb128> pitti wanted to see grafton street <seb128> we had dinner at a pub near where the burger were very challenging <seb128> ;-) <didrocks> it's not as nice as dawson street, but worth an eye too :) <seb128> shame it was raining when we went out, no street music <didrocks> oh yes, burgers seems to be some kind of national food :) <didrocks> "it was raining" -> what a surprise :-) <seb128> lol <didrocks> I hope you will have the time to heard some traditional music <seb128> maybe if the rain stops <seb128> we will visit the guiness storehouse this week <didrocks> it should... before another "rain train" :-) <seb128> so at least I will taste one guiness ;-) <didrocks> oh, it's nice and funny <didrocks> yes, you have one with your ticket <didrocks> brewed less than 3 hours ago :) <didrocks> just be careful about when you get there. It's sometimes crowded <seb128> well we have a group visit booked apparently <didrocks> ok! /me wishes to be in Dublin too :) <didrocks> I really liked the people handling ad boards down the street <seb128> seems you really enjoyed your time there ;-) <didrocks> seb128: appart from the weather, yes and the whole country (especially the western part) is really lovely :-) <didrocks> seb128: where are you right now, in Dublin center? <seb128> 15 minutes walking from dawson street <seb128> cross the park south of there and the small river <didrocks> seb128: north or south? <didrocks> (from dawson street) <seb128> it's written the line before your question <seb128> south ;-) <didrocks> ok, I was reading south of where there is a small river :) <seb128> well you go south from dawson street <seb128> cross the park and the small river <seb128> and the hotel is just there <didrocks> I know a little less this south part than the north one. But I probably had a walk once there (Dublin isn't so big in reality) :) <didrocks> also, if you have more time, you should go to Dublin Castle and Christ Church Cathedral. I think that's it for "must visit" guide ;) <didrocks> in addition to visit some pubs, of course <bratsche> I saw those yesterday. <bratsche> Especially the cathedral is quite nice. <didrocks> yes :-) <mdz> does anyone happen to know the bug number for that issue with the spurious policykit authentication dialog? <seb128> mdz, bug #396448 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 396448 in gvfs "inconsistent automounting on startup" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396448 <mdz> seb128, thank you <andreasn> mpt, ping <Ng> is there a prevailing policy/process for switching svn->git for gnome projects that have launchpad projects setup (but not actively used by the upstream folk)? vte is still set to come from svn and afaict that means it's not seen any changes since april <robert_ancell> bryce: did you attach the stacktrace to that X report? <bryce> robert_ancell, no I didn't, mind adding it? <robert_ancell> bryce: what is the best way? Attach the core dump? <robert_ancell> bryce: or ~bryce/gdb.txt <bryce> ~bryce/gdb.txt <didrocks> seb128, rickspencer31: ahah \o/ fixed yesterday in trunk (before seing the crash report) :) <rickspencer31> didrocks: nice <didrocks> I need to investigate about adding a apport hook to add some information. <seb128> didrocks, apport hooks are easy let me know if you need some help to set up one <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'm investigating that this evening. Is there some documentation somewhere? <seb128> didrocks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo <didrocks> seb128: thanks <seb128> you're welcome <asac> seb128: hmm <asac> seb128: i can add a confli8ct. but mozilla-dev must be really really old <asac> seb128: you are reading bugmail for nspr for me now ;) thanks! <seb128> asac, ok, I don't know about it I just pointed it in case it was something many users will hit <seb128> asac, no, I was looking to the most recently reported list to see if people were complain about the icons in menus being dropped <seb128> asac, you might want to look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504275 btw <ubottu> Mozilla bug 504275 in Menus "Bookmark favicon images with menus_have_icons=false" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] <crevette> simplecommeubuntu ? <crevette> :) <didrocks> crevette: yes ! ;) <crevette> the framasoft book? <didrocks> yes (mine book, btw ;)) <crevette> I just found the link in google <didrocks> really? you have never heard about the framabook collection? <crevette> http://www.framabook.org/ubuntu.html <didrocks> it's been there from 6.10 edition (in fact, from 6.06 but never been published and it was called Simple Comme Linux at the epoch) <bryce> pitti, mind peeking at bug #407816 when you get a chance? <ubottu> Launchpad bug 407816 in xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse "vmmouse should be in main (reverted to universe in intrepid)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407816 <pitti> bryce: I guess nothign depended on it any more <pitti> bryce: that explains why it actually worked in kvm in hardy, but not later <pitti> bryce: kirkland told me a nice trick how to get back the effect <bryce> pitti, how can we get it pinned down into main? vmware depends on it <pitti> but if we fix it properly, so much the better <pitti> bryce: something has to hold it in main, i. e. either by seed or dependency <pitti> bryce: it's not on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt <bryce> pitti, ok how do I do that? <pitti> i. e. it's currently neither depended on nor seeded <pitti> bryce: to me it sounds like it should just be added to -input-all ? <pitti> if that's not appropriate, we could add it to ubuntu-desktop, but that would be a bit strange <bryce> hmm, ok <bryce> pitti, ok I'll add it to -input-all <pitti> bryce: bug updated, -vmmouse promoted <andreasn> mpt, oh, crap, I don't read :/ I thought #408361 was about all applications <tgpraveen> #408361 <tgpraveen> #408361 * tgpraveen thinks this is not my day <mpt> andreasn, you didn't misread, it was about all applications <mpt> I was talking more to mac_v than to you :-) <mpt> Thanks for doing that work mac_v <mac_v> mpt: np... :) <seb128> andreasn, mpt: those changes seem not really well organized <mac_v> andreasn: actually i filed it for all apps, but mpt makes a good point about spam <mac_v> hence i split it <mac_v> tgpraveen: Bug #408361 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 408361 in firefox "Firefox needs to use "gtk_image_menu_item_set_always_show_image" for essential icons." [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408361 <seb128> andreasn, mpt: it has been explained nowhere and to nobody <tgpraveen> thx <mac_v> seb128: http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=103 , but it has not been explaind to anybody <mpt> seb128, it was posted on desktop-devel@. It's the sort of change where nobody really cares about fixing problems with the non-default setting until it's changed. It reminds me of the introduction of action-less notifications, actually. :-) <mclasen> seb128: do you expect the explanation in regular mail, or via UPS ? <seb128> mac_v, blogs are a nice communication tool but not the best way to reach everybody in a project <mac_v> yeah , agreed... <seb128> mclasen, regular email would be nice, I think that's what is used for discussions in GNOME so far and to announce changes, etc <andreasn> seb128, agreed, a initial e-mail after the change had been made to ddl should have been done <mac_v> i noticed that only from the upstream bug report <mac_v> s/that/that blog <seb128> mpt, well nobody wrote about the always use icon property in the d-d-l email or that applications need to be changed <seb128> mpt, ie I didn't know about that until reading your launchpad comment <seb128> mpt, that's in this blog post apparently too though but I'm one of those people who don't read planet regularly ;-) <mac_v> mpt: i dont think no-one will care, people will notice when icons are missing , it looks like a nasty bug... you should have been in #ubuntu+1 the day this happened <mac_v> i just reported late since i had other things to fix ;p <andreasn> seb128, who is in charge of writing the Ubuntu Alpha/Beta release notes? <andreasn> seb128, we need to make sure to mention this change there <seb128> andreasn, I think there is a launchpad team you can subscribe to bugs, pitti or slangasek know <andreasn> vuntz, and who writes them for OpenSuse? <andreasn> seb128, cool, thanks <andreasn> seb128, I'll make sure it also goes into the GNOME 2.28 release notes <pitti> andreasn: subscribe ubuntu-release to the bug and then add a comment <asac> awe: DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS = -- -c4 <vuntz> andreasn: zonker, I think <andreasn> vuntz, can you get in touch with him and make sure it gets mentioned? <mpt> seb128, yes, it could have been better explained <seb128> mclasen, btw shouldn't set_use_underline be on by default? <mclasen> the default value for use-underline has always been FALSE <seb128> mclasen, the change is somewhat a compatibility breakage in the sense where it change behaviour and make lot of applications behave incorrectly, doing it the reverse way would not change the behaviour <mclasen> what change ? <seb128> mclasen, well since gtk was buggy and not respecting that it sort of was TRUE not by design but by use <bryce> pitti, ok -input-all updated <pitti> \o/ <bryce> robert_ancell, xserver patch pushed; thanks again <pitti> bryce: that means the next naive kvm -cdrom karmic.iso should "just work" again? <seb128> mclasen, http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-2-16&id=1b4d4628b94f9aff0af63aebfbc2e3ed73eed56b <bryce> pitti, hope so <robert_ancell> bryce: Thanks, no more X crashes for me! <bryce> robert_ancell, onward compiz! :-) * robert_ancell dies a little inside ;) <didrocks> seb128: when/if you have some time, did you received my mail about reviewing the fdo mail? <seb128> didrocks, yes sorry, sort of busy travelling, sprint, etc <didrocks> seb128: I understand, no worries :) <mac_v> hehe.. the funny thing about the libgnome change was , even seb128 ,who approved the change, didnt know ;p <seb128> mac_v, I didn't approve the change <seb128> but I didn't realize that some items were still supposed to have icons <seb128> almost no application seems to do that right <mac_v> i meant the this https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-July/005347.html <mclasen> seb128: it is fine in almost all apps; the ones where we need some finetuning are browsers <seb128> mac_v, right I did the libgnome update, I though that the goal was to have no icon though, not that some items would need to set a property <mac_v> :) <seb128> mclasen, that's not what mpt suggested <seb128> "Examples of menu items that count as objects, and should therefore have icons: applications, documents (including any recent documents in a "File" menu), disks, partitions, folders, bookmarks, history items, IM accounts, IM statuses, user accounts." <mclasen> seb128: mpt is not god... <mac_v> 0.o i thought he was ;p <seb128> mclasen, well if even the design people who did dicuss the issue don't know what we are supposed to do ... <seb128> mclasen, and no need to be aggressive there <seb128> so it seems different people disagree now on what entries should have icons or not <mclasen> seb128: I'm not <vuntz> andreasn: hrm, what should get mentioned? <seb128> that will make easy for each application maintainer to know what change to apply <mac_v> vuntz: Bug #407621 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 407621 in libgnome "(design decision) Icons missing from context menu , dialogue buttons , firefox bookmark favicons" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407621 <seb128> andreasn, should standard application have any icon for documents, disks, bookmarks etc as suggested by mpt or not as suggested by mclasen now? <mclasen> the one place where documents usually show up in app menus is recent docs <mclasen> and we already handle that in gtk <andreasn> seb128, I would go with what mpt recommended here, ie. yes, show them for apps, documents, disks etc. <seb128> andreasn, thanks <andreasn> this is also what Vista and OS X does (if that matters in any way) <seb128> mclasen, the gtk changes for underline trigger lot of bugs similar to http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590349 <ubottu> Gnome bug 590349 in Appearance "Theme save button says "Save _As" including underline" [Trivial,New] <andreasn> I can't recall what Maemo and Moblin does right now, let me see if I can find the n800 <seb128> mclasen, which is somewhat a compatibility change in the way that by doing the stable update you "break" applications which were working apparently correctly <andreasn> according to hbons, all menu icons are disabled on moblin <mac_v> andreasn: wow! when something is done in windows and not in gnome , devs say we dont want to copy .... but for such issues do we copy? double standards eh ;p <mpt> mac_v, I didn't mean that users wouldn't care about the change, I meant that until now developers hadn't cared about fixing the cases where icons should have been always shown <seb128> mpt, I think most hackers don't know what those cases are <mac_v> mpt: oh... yeah... until the change is forced they wont patch it... ;) <seb128> mpt, ie your "object" explanation is somewhat unclear to me still :-) <andreasn> mac_v, just copying a design from another OS right over can sometimes be a bad thing, as the design can have been influenced by underlying software or hardware issues <andreasn> mac_v, so it's often best to do your own research etc. <mac_v> +1 <andreasn> mac_v, but avoiding designs that other OS:es does, just because those do it as well would be, hm, odd <mac_v> andreasn: agreed... so when you are pushing this idea , pls dont keep saying other OS do the same... doesnt sound right.. <mac_v> lets just base our decisions on our research <mpt> seb128, yeah, the HIG has been vague about it, probably mostly because the option was set to something else by default. It's a chicken and egg situation. <seb128> mpt, well what I'm saying is that it's still somewhat a fuzzy definition, ie is there anything in nautilus menus you consider objects? <mclasen> seb128: what stable updates are you talking about ? the bug you point to is for 2.27... <seb128> mclasen, we got control center bugs in GNOME saying that's an issue with 2.26.3 too <mclasen> well, there are a few places, but it is still application bugs... <seb128> well the annoying part is that updating gtk will trigger bug in a certain amount of applications <seb128> some from an user or distributor point of view those will be buggy until somebody goes through every installed to spot and fix all the buggy things <mclasen> seb128: of course, we don't know how many places are buggy because they were coded following the gtk api docs... <seb128> mclasen, would changing the default behaviour be problematic? there is probably nobody relying on the default documented behaviour since that was no working <seb128> having it changed would also mean no runtime behaviour change on upgrade and would allow users to set it to false easily <mclasen> no, its not that easy <mclasen> it is not as if gtk was simply using use-underline=true before, just that the false did not have the desired effect in some cases <seb128> hum, ok <seb128> mclasen, we could argue whether fixing that in a stable serie makes sense or not but let's say it's a distributor issue to weight the fix against the behaviour change <mclasen> sure <asac> crevette: hey <asac> crevette: so which version of gnome-bluetooth are we looking at? <asac> crevette: somehow the -properties doesnt have the issue anymore <asac> 2.27.8-0ubuntu1 <crevette> yep this one <asac> it just went a way <asac> crevette: does it work for you too? (i didnt even rebuild it) <crevette> didn't tested, I'll do tonight once I'm at home <asac> thx * crevette is Ã¼ber hungry <asac> ;) <asac> bon appetit * asac assumes you plan to stop that state ;) <crevette> I've nothing to eat around me, and that's better <crevette> eating at job is baaaad <asac> crevette: oh. all retract ... i had bluetooth "Off" <crevette> I need to ping pitti about acl for rfkill in 2.6.31 <crevette> we need to had rules to permit people to manage the rfkill of the bluetooth adapter and I never touch udev <crevette> (/me would like to bite a toblerone) <pitti> crevette: that doesn't sound like something an user should have access to? <seb128> asac, echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches <crevette> pitti, you need to switch off the bt adapter apparently <crevette> pitti http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-July/msg00212.html <crevette> oups not the right link <crevette> pitti, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585765#c4 <ubottu> Gnome bug 585765 in general "Move killswitch code to /dev/rfkill" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] <pitti> hm, that sounds a little dangerous <pitti> that should be accessed by networkmanager <pitti> not by any random user IMHO <crevette> need to go <crevette> I should online quickly <crevette> bye <crevette> +be <seb128> james_w, so your logrotate thing for ck-history doesn't seem to make a difference <seb128> james_w, ck-history reads everything in the directory including .gz logs, ie if anything it makes it slower <pitti> dropping cron sessions from CK will already help a lot, but perhaps we should just disable reading of rotated logs then? <seb128> pitti, yes <seb128> pitti, I've some ten thousand entries there <seb128> or what asac said, don't rotate but only read a limited number of lines <pitti> we still need to rotate, though <pitti> otherwise /var/log will eventually overflow <asac> oh ck-history reads everything ... that explains it <james_w> seb128: yeah, it's not complete <james_w> seb128: I have a code change to ck-history to make it return some results quicker <andreasn> mpt, in the tomboy menu, the notes are objects, right? <james_w> but GDM waits until it has the complete list before showing anything anyway, so it doesn't win you anything <seb128> james_w, in any case reading a limited number of lines seems to make sense <james_w> could do <james_w> if GDM would display the first users that it gets straight away I think my branch would make it usable <james_w> but limiting the number of lines would be a quicker fix I guess <seb128> james_w, wouldn't having the list changing after some seconds still be weird? <james_w> it would <james_w> but my proposal is not to do that <james_w> instead of being purely frequency based as now, it would be a combination of frequency and recency <james_w> so if I only ever logged in twice, but both were yesterday, I would be higher in the list than someone that logged in 10,000 times a month ago <asac> awe: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa <seb128> james_w, ok fair enough, I was just pointing that it was reading everything in the rotated directory because I noticed that while playing with it <mpt> andreasn, yes, they're basically documents <seb128> james_w, I though the rotation was a workaround to the speed issue <james_w> seb128: yeah, I should have done better at discussing all the issues with you <james_w> no, that was just because it's the right thing to do <seb128> ok, seems you have everything on track <seb128> sorry for the noise ;-) <james_w> and because it at least bounds the time taken, even if it's still too long <mac_v> asac: when do we expect firefox3.5 to replace firefox 3.0 in Karmic? <james_w> no, I don't think I do <seb128> well you have an action plan at least <james_w> I'm not sure how to modify GDM for my proposal <james_w> but I could easily do the lines thing if needed <seb128> and we can easily use to the "read a limited number of lines" before karmic <james_w> and I have the code for the recency+frequency <seb128> right <seb128> I might have a look to gdm but doing asynchronous loading might be non trivial for somebody who don't know the gdm codebase <asac> mac_v: soon ;) <asac> i hope to have it by default in alpha4 <mac_v> :) <asac> ccheney: so ooo doesnt build with xul 1.9.1 ... you think you could check that? https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ffox35 <james_w> seb128: it seems to do async loading, but delays the draw until the completed signal <james_w> this may be for other reasons though <andreasn> mpt, done http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590653 <ubottu> Gnome bug 590653 in General "menu don't show icons for objects if menus_have_icons=false" [Normal,Unconfirmed] <mpt> andreasn, and here's where I start wincing because that's such an awkward API to use :-) <mpt> thanks for reporting that though <fta> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=14822 I'm looking for ideas of what could cause that.. (metacity + compositing) <asac> fta: feels like the metacity patch we carry for a while <asac> hmm i think i dont undeerstand the bug <seb128> asac, he says that changing the chromium option makes the gnome-panel turn transparent <fta> more than transparent, it disappears, but it's still there <asac> ah ok <asac> i think metacity compositing is still buggy <fta> chromium changes it's default to hide its window decorations, so everyone using metacity with compositing is impacted. <kklimonda> If I prepare an update/merge of package maintained in ~ubuntu-desktop team's bzr repositories who should I subscribe for sponsorship? normal -sponsors as usual or ubuntu-desktop ? <fta> it seems fedora too <chrisccoulson> hey fta - i saw your message last night but didn't get a chance to reply <seb128> kklimonda, normal sponsors <seb128> kklimonda, which one? <kklimonda> seb128: and they are going to merge my bzr branch into "official" one? bug 407898 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 407898 in hamster-applet "Update to 2.27.5" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407898 <seb128> kklimonda, subscribe the universe sponsors for that one <seb128> kklimonda, yes, whoever does the update will do that <kklimonda> seb128: ok, thanks <UbuntuNISMO> anybody can help fixing /etc/network/interfaces ? private me! <ccheney> asac: yea looking at it <ccheney> asac: it seems to not like the 1.9.1 headers, after digging though the build log * ccheney will do a local non-threaded build and see if he can determine why <UbuntuNISMO> anybody can help fixing /etc/network/interfaces ? private me! <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - having fun in dublin? <chrisccoulson> UbuntuNISMO - you want #ubuntu for support <chrisccoulson> and no need to ask the same question twice. <UbuntuNISMO> what is this channel about #ubuntu-desktop 2009-08-04 <seb128> pitti, where are you hiding today? ;-) <pitti> seb128: with the security team, to discuss executable file handling policy <seb128> pitti, ok, I'm available for login speed or apport when you want <pitti> shouldn't take long any more <kklimonda> pitti: care to take a look at bug 408600? It hits all poor ubuntuone users out there ;) <ubottu> Launchpad bug 408600 in pyinotify "pyinotify's libc version check fails on Karmic" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408600 <pitti> kklimonda: sure, will sponsor <didrocks> seb128, pitti: I'm a bit puzzled about one thing in mime association. If I make a file -i xxx and getting applications/ogg, the file seems to match the following mime types in mimeinfo.cache: <didrocks> application/x-ogg, application/ogg, audio/ogg are taken into account in the "open with" box but video/ogg is not matched. Where is the magic? :) <didrocks> In addition to this, the priority (without defaults.list) is matched on the first element in the audio/ogg line independently to its location in mimeinfo.cache. <seb128> didrocks, file is not using the shared-mime-info database <seb128> didrocks, /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml has the magic detection <seb128> <match value="OggS" type="string" offset="0"/> <seb128> and .ogv <seb128> is what shared mime info is using <didrocks> seb128: oh ok. Is there a magic command to know what is the accurate mime file using this additional rules? <seb128> the xdgmime can use the filename or content <seb128> they call that fast or slow detection I think <seb128> the defaults.list ordering is not revelant <seb128> it's meant to list one default by mimetype <seb128> not to have a sorted list <seb128> same for the cache file <didrocks> seb128: yes. I was talking about the ordering in mimeinfo.cache in fact <didrocks> yes, that's confirm what I experience here <seb128> that's why we said we need to change the cache semantic <didrocks> seb128: I'm just a bit confused about the mime.cache and mimeinfo.cache (on the xdg list they assume that mimeinfo.cache is only a GNOME thing) <seb128> there is no mime.cache? <didrocks> seb128: on the xdg list, they say that mime.cache is what should be used and that mimeinfo.cache is GNOME specific thing <seb128> oh, that's a cache of all the shared mime info datas <seb128> it doesn't have default selection choice, etc <rickspencer31> bryce: where r u? <seb128> rickspencer31, he was in front of you 1 minute ago before you moved <seb128> rickspencer31, still there <seb128> ie sitting just next to me and pitti <didrocks> seb128: so, if mimeinfo.cache is specific to GNOME, it would be difficult to make the changes apply to fdo <seb128> didrocks, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2008-January/009112.html <seb128> didrocks, read this discussion <didrocks> ok, thanks. Reading it now :) <seb128> didrocks, the whole discussion rather than this specific email I think <didrocks> seb128: yes, I've already head to the root of it :) <jpds> Morning. <jpds> Does anyone know why I'm missing icons on all my right-click menus on karmic? http://spooky.ubuntuwire.com/~jpds/2009-08-04-115224_1280x800_scrot.png <jpds> I'm created a brand-new user, changed icon themes, but I still get no icons... <kklimonda> jpds: that's upstream decision <ruslanr> jpds: http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=103 & http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469 <ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: timed out (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=557469) <jpds> How annoying. <bcurtiswx> hey all, bug #400485 is one I think should be looked at by you guys :-) <ubottu> Launchpad bug 400485 in ubuntu-sounds "Empathy sounds not in default ubuntu theme" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400485 <asac> seb128: https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+archive/ppa/+files/gnome-bluetooth_2.27.8-0ubuntu1~asac.dsc <asac> pitti: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmbca/+bug/408763 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 408763 in libmbca "remove from archive" [Undecided,New] <mpt> mat_t, I've taken a photo of the revised Empathy welcome screen with your camera, so if you could connect it up sometime today that would be smashing :-) <pitti> vuntz: hey <vuntz> pitti: ho! <pitti> vuntz: I'm planning to start working on the gnome-menus caching, FYI <mac_v> jpds: bug #407621 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 407621 in libgnome "(design decision) Icons missing from context menu , dialogue buttons , firefox bookmark favicons" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407621 <mac_v> jpds: i'v sent a mail to the list too , regarding this <pitti> vuntz: I wondered whether you have some advice where to do the cache lookup <pitti> vuntz: would it be sensible to hook it into gmenu_tree_lookup()? <pitti> vuntz: and if you want applications.menu, it'd look into /var/cache/gnome-menu/applications.menu.bin or so? <vuntz> pitti: hrm, I probably would do a general cache, not one that is specific to menus <vuntz> pitti: eg, if you want to find a mime handler, you need to look at the desktop files too <o0spongebob0o_> salut a tous <pitti> vuntz: right, but in order for it to make sense, we need to check for the caches seldomly and load the entire menu in one go; with one
{'channel': 'ubuntu-desktop', 'month': 8}