#ubuntu-translators 2011-02-01 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> morning dpm <dpm> morning andrejz :) <TLE> morning everybody <andrejz> morning TLE, how is freeciv going ? <TLE> good, we didn't quite make it for the beta, but we will for teh final version <andrejz> great. I just finished writing the report from yestardays translations meeting and sent it in all possible directions ;) <andrejz> it took a while but it's wort it <dpm> andrejz, I haven't seen it yet. Was that a meeting from your team? <andrejz> we have meetings twice a month - once a more formal online so as many people can attend and once informal translation beer <dpm> ah, yeah, I remember youtold me about the translation beers :) <andrejz> you can see the list of events here and there are also links to google docs, but it's all in slovenian so i guess it might not help you much - http://slovenski-prevajalci.blogspot.com/p/pretekli-dogodki.html <dpm> cool :) <andrejz> but from the dates you can see some stuff is happening :) <andrejz> now i am trying to energise a wider loco community (besides translators) but there hasn't been much effect so far. I am considering taking it over but i am not certian my timetable allows this <dpm> hi happyaron, a quick question: I've got a couple of translations (audacity.mo, for example) on /usr/share/locale/zh/LC_MESSAGES - so there is no country code specified that can be used to tell Simplified vs. Traditional Chinese apart. Is that a bug in the apps providing those translations, or is the 'zh' code an alias for a particular Chinese variant? <trijntje> Hi all, can someone give an indication as to how 'un-wise' it would be to begin translating programs for natty? Would a lot of work get lost? <andrejz> hello trintje! <andrejz> i don't think the changes are going to be drastic <andrejz> especially for gnome package (meaning not unity and similar) <andrejz> we have been translating natty (or more preciesly upstream sources) in slovanian team since it was available and not many strings have changed up till now, but strings always change among releases and it's soem extra work one must take into account #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-02 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> Hello dpm! I was wondering if importst of ddtp_ubuntu packages are also halted <dpm> hi andrejz, no, they shouldn't be. They are not imported as Ubuntu packages, IIRC. They are updated whenever there is a commit in the DDTP project <andrejz> ok thanks <dpm> yw :) <dpm> ok, bye everyone, see you all tomorrow! #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-03 <dpm> good morning all <happyaron> dpm: morning! <happyaron> dpm: could you have a look at bug 659280? <ubot4> Launchpad bug 659280 in poppler-data (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "subject: Remove the string tags include Bitstream VeraãDejaVu inside in the setting file /etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-xy.conf where xy represents cn, hk, mo, sg and tw individually. (affects: 2) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659280 <dpm> hi happyaron, good morning. Just a few minutes, I need to reboot. brb... <happyaron> :) <dpm> good morning again :) <happyaron> :) <happyaron> the bug I mentioned just now is bug 659280 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 659280 in poppler-data (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "subject: Remove the string tags include Bitstream VeraãDejaVu inside in the setting file /etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-xy.conf where xy represents cn, hk, mo, sg and tw individually. (affects: 2) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659280 <dpm> reading... <dpm> happyaron, so as far as I understand, there is no agreement in how to fix this? <happyaron> no <happyaron> there are two opinions: fix it by changing fontconfig configuration so PDFs can work, but typefaces would be uglier; wait to fix it in poppler-data and all other applications that does not work as expected. <dpm> happyaron, the thing is that we don't have a font expert anymore, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to propose a solution in this case. Right now, it is a bit difficult to follow with all the opinions. Do you think you could add a comment with a summary of the two alternatives, with pros and cons of each one? <happyaron> dpm: I've tried to do that, but in fact the bug reporters are also arguing about which to choose on their forum. <happyaron> you can only see few people write on that bug report because he's just a translator who summarize things on their forum. <happyaron> I tried to read their forum posts, and they do not have an agreement either. personally I prefer to fix the problem in poppler-data, but unfortunately I cannot reproduce the bug in Debian so not sure whether I can forward it to Debian. <dpm> happyaron, still, I think you have a good overview on this. If someone who either does not speak Chinese or doesn't follow those forums would definitely get confused with all the current comments. I'm not saying it's the solution, but I think such a comment with a summary would help <happyaron> dpm: okay, I'll make the summary. But I think it's really an issue to be fixed. As far as I know most research papers in Chinese cannot be rendered correctly due to this issue, either zh_CN or zh_TW. I don't know the situation about Japanese and Korean. <dpm> happyaron, is freeflying aware of this bug? <happyaron> the special case in those research papers is they don't embed Chinese fonts to the PDF file, and our current settings cannot handle scottashley@example.org. <happyaron> dpm: not sure <dpm> I'll point it to him, but as I say, right now all the comments make it a bit confusing (and the title of the bug, especially). The clearer it is, the easier it will be for someone to fix <dpm> You've got a good understanding of the bug, do you think you could come up with a better title, e.g. "Cannot render PDFs without embedded fonts in Chinese and other languages" or something along the lines? <happyaron> I'll try to make it clear for people who don't speak Chinese, but I failed to figure out why Debian works but Ubuntu does not (with same appearance on users experience, but not the same configuration files) <happyaron> OK, let me try <dpm> thanks happyaron <happyaron> dpm: done <happyaron> We'd move one to seek an expert to solve the problem. <dpm> thanks happyaron, it looks much better now <dpm> I'll point freeflying to it too <happyaron> :) <dpm> hi TLE, how are you doing? I sent you an e-mail about the language packs spec, have you had the chance to look at it? <happyaron> dpm: personally I think we'd find someone knows about poppler and poppler-data <dpm> happyaron, I'll look into it, but I cannot promise anything. I'm not familiar with it and I don't know anyone who is <dpm> you might want to ask around in #ubuntu-devel or in #ubuntu-desktop <happyaron> thanks <TLE> dpm: hallo <dpm> hey :) <TLE> yes I saw your email <TLE> I agree with you and it should just be done <TLE> I can handle it myself and I think I should have time to do it tomorrow <dpm> that sounds excellent, thanks <TLE> np <dpm> I'm looking forward to announcing this, it will address an important issue that hadn't been handled properly for a looong time. <dpm> great work <andrejz> @dpm: what is this about? <dpm> andrejz, the language pack updates policy spec Kenneth has been working on -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-training-sessions <andrejz> cool <dpm> :) <dpm> hi everyone, Translations training session starting in ~10 minutes, feel free to join in! <dpm_> Hi everyone! <dpm_> Welcome to the first ever Translations Training Session :) <dpm_> we'll wait a couple of minutes to see if there are any late-comers <dpm_> ok, let's get started <dpm_> Let's see who's here, any new translators around? <dpm_> ok, first of all, a few words about these sessions. <dpm_> Here's how they will work: <dpm_> We'll be running IRC sessions every two weeks, covering different topics on each one, all related to different aspects of translating Ubuntu. <dpm_> The main goal is to help new translators giving them a quickstart on how to start contributing, <dpm_> but we will also cover topics that can be of interest to more experienced translators or to people starting to create a new translation team. <dpm_> As such, the range of topics will be broad. We've got a bunch of suggestions here: <dpm_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Training/Suggestions <dpm_> and I encourage you to add your own suggestions on that page, <dpm_> so we can make this more personal and tailor the sessions to what you think it is important to know as a translator. <dpm_> When we run out of topics, we can repeat them again, as there are always new translators willing to learn :) <dpm_> Eventually, I'd like the resources created during these sessions (translations training projects in Launchpad, session logs, session outlines) to be useful for each local translation team <dpm_> to reuse them to run sessions in their language <dpm_> But enough introductory talk. Let's get started. <dpm_> * What we'll learn today: we'll focus on describing and using the Launchpad Translations web interface, which is what you'll be using to translate Ubuntu <dpm_> <dpm_> The Translations Web UI <dpm_> ----------------------- <dpm_> Generally, you'd be going to http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu to translate your favourite distro <dpm_> But today we'll be using a kind of a playground project in Launchpad, <dpm_> so you can start playing around with translations and submitting data without the worry of sending or overwriting real translation data. <dpm_> Here it is: <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this <dpm_> The Translations Training project <dpm_> So if you all go there, we'll first start looking at all of the elements of the UI. <dpm_> Go and click on the name of your language in that page, which should take you to the translatable messages. <dpm_> For example in my case (Catalan), it takes me to: <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/+translate <dpm_> Once you are there, click at the little magnifier icon on the far left of the first translatable message. <dpm_> It's the icon with a plus sign (+) on it. <dpm_> If you cannot find it, don't worry, you can just go to the Catalan version here: <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/1/+translate <dpm_> Ok, so we're all set now, and we can start having a look at all the UI elements. <dpm_> Here are the most important: <dpm_> 1. The original English message. <dpm_> That is the message on top, which says "My first ever translation". <dpm_> This is the message you'll have to translate into your language. <dpm_> We'll be calling this the original message or string (as in a string of characters), <dpm_> and it will be always in English. <dpm_> So you will in principle only need knowledge of English and the language you are trying to translate into <dpm_> 2. The translators comment. <dpm_> You'll see this text right below the original English message, next to a small info {i} icon. <dpm_> These are messages that are written by developers to give additional information to translators as to the context of the message. <dpm_> These are really useful to provide accurate translations, especially when the original text can be ambiguous <dpm_> 3. Current translation. <dpm_> Shown below the translators comment, this shows the current translation, if any, into the local language. <dpm_> If there isn't any translation, it will show the text "(no translation yet)". <dpm_> You'll see it's got a radio button, so that you can select the appropriate translation in case there are already translation suggestions (more on this below). <dpm_> 4. Translation suggestions. <dpm_> Right below the current translation, there is a space with radio buttons where translation suggestions (if any) are shown. <dpm_> You will not see this if there haven't been any suggestions yet. <dpm_> Translation suggestions are either translations that contributors have provided directly, or that have been found in other projects in Launchpad. <dpm_> Launchpad is quite clever on this, and if it finds the same original message in any of the hosted projects, it will show it as a suggestion automatically for you. <dpm_> meaning it will show the translations for the original message as a suggestion <dpm_> Suggestions are quite a cool feature: they allow you to basically do "point and click" translation and save you a lot of work. <dpm_> They will also allow you to ensure the quality of translations through review (more on this below). <dpm_> You can also dismiss suggestions by ticking the "Dismiss all suggestions above" checkbox and committing the change by pressing the "Save & Continue" button. <dpm_> 5. New translation. <dpm_> This is the interesting part. <dpm_> On this textbox you'll be able to submit your translations, which can be direct ones or suggestions - depending on the permissions of the translatable project and on your team membership. <dpm_> It might show an expander at the end of it, which you can click in case you need to expand the text box to provide a longer translation <dpm_> 6. Needs Review checkbox. <dpm_> Right below the "New translation" text field, you'll see the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox. <dpm_> You can use this to let reviewers look at your translations before they are accepted. <dpm_> This is generally recommended for translation quality, as the reviewers will spot mistakes, typos and inconsistencies, and will help you getting translations right before they are released to users. <dpm_> You will learn a lot from reviews, so I encourage you to get your translations reviewed by contacting the team responsible for your language <dpm_> or to do reviews yourself <dpm_> Ticking this checkbox and pressing the "Save & Continue" button will make your translations be submitted as suggestions, and applies only if you are already a member of a translation team. <dpm_> If you are not yet, your translations will be submitted as suggestions always, without the need to tick that box. <dpm_> As an example, you can see several suggestions, not yet reviewed and accepted, here: <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/1/+translate <dpm_> And here you can see a suggestion which has been reviewed and accepted: <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/2/+translate <dpm_> Notice how Launchpad properly credits both the translator and the reviewer. <dpm_> 7. Source code reference. <dpm_> Below the Needs Review checkbox you'll see a smaller text telling you where in the code for the program the string appears. <dpm_> You shouldn't worry much about that, but in some cases, <dpm_> this can be really useful to find out which file the string belongs to, or it might give you a hint to what kind of translation that is, depending on the type of file <dpm_> 8. Zoom. <dpm_> You've used this already, and it's the magnifier icon with the plus (+) or minus (-) <dpm_> on the far left of the translatable message <dpm_> If you click on it, it will let you switch between the single message view or all translatable messages view. <dpm_> Useful to concentrate on a difficult translation or to get the URL to a particular message you want to point out to (i.e. for review or to show someone a particular translation). <dpm_> 9. Copy text. <dpm_> That's the arrow icon right to the left of the translatable message. <dpm_> It provides a shortcut to be able to just copying the original text into the translation field <dpm_> without having to retype the message <dpm_> This comes in quite handy when the translation is actually the same as the original <dpm_> i.e. it is actually not translated. This happens in the names of programs, acronyms, names of programming languages, etc. <dpm_> 10. "Save & Continue" button. <dpm_> That is a key part of the UI. <dpm_> The moment you press it, your translations or suggestions are saved in the Launchpad database. <dpm_> This allows you coming back at a later time to review them and they will be right there where you left them last time. <dpm_> You don't have to complete all translations in a page <dpm_> you can press it at any time and it will save only the ones you've made. <dpm_> Ok, so that has covered the most important UI elements of the Launchpad Translations interface. <dpm_> I tried to detail each one of them, but you'll see that they are quite intuitive and it will just take you a couple of minutes to get used to them. <dpm_> -> Any questions so far? <dpm_> ok, let's move on <dpm_> Doing Your First Translations <dpm_> ----------------------------- <dpm_> So now for the fun part. <dpm_> The translations-training project is thought for you to experiment with translations and with all the UI elements. <dpm_> It's thought of as a hands-on tutorial, as the translator comments will tell you more about the particular translation <dpm_> and help you learn more about elements of translation. <dpm_> It has just a few translatable messages now, but we'll be adding more in future sessions. <dpm_> If you are not there yet, you can go to <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training <dpm_> Then click on your language and start submitting your translation suggestions. <dpm_> Right now the project is set up with Restricted permissions, in the same way Ubuntu is. <dpm_> This means that you can only submit direct translations if you are a member of an approved translation team, <dpm_> but you'll always be able to submit translation suggestions. <dpm_> If, after you've tried submitting suggestions you want to see what it's like submitting direct translations, do let me know and I can change the permissions temporarily to Open, so that anyone can do it. <dpm_> So go and play with this project, and do come back if you've got any questions <dpm_> Everything clear so far? <dpm_> So if there aren't any questions, we'll wrap up and leave it here for today, and we'll continue in two weeks time in the next session <dpm_> <dpm_> Summary <dpm_> ------- <dpm_> So today we learnt about: <dpm_> * The Launchpad Translations UI elements and how to use them <dpm_> * Submitting translations and suggestions through the Translations Training project in Launchpad: https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training <dpm_> Next session we can look at the rest of UI elements and to more advanced topics, for example translations workflow: how translation teams work <dpm_> If you've got any questions, feel free to ping me any time on #ubuntu-translators <dpm_> And thanks for reading! :-) #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-04 <TLE> good morning eveybody <TLE> love the new wiki theme, hadn't seen it before now <dpm> good morning all <TLE> good morning <dpm> good morning TLE :) <TLE> dpm: quick question <TLE> Back when we were making the first schedule I had a chat with pitti about timings, and back then he told that when the lang packs are built, they are supposed to be automatically uploaded to the PPA, but that it was broken at the time. Do you know if it has been fixed? <TLE> My reason for asking is that Lucid packages start build on Fridays, and therefore should be done and be automatically uploaded on saturdays. But if the automatic part does not work, and if pitti have as little desire to work on weekends as I have ;) then what <dpm> TLE, it has been fixed, afaik <TLE> great <TLE> ok, that would mean that 2 weeks testing for the final Lucid lang pack should start tomorrow, that may be to short notice, push it back a week? <dpm> yeah, perhaps. Let me remind myself of the schedule and check the status of the Lucid PPA... <dpm> TLE, and re: the day of upload, I'm not sure if we should worry too much when they are built, and simply use the same day to announce testing. The reason being the simplification of the schedule, and that at the beginning of each cycle we might have to change the days of the PPA builds, as the older releases get dropped from https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule and we make new way for the new release there. It would be great <dpm> if we could find a way not to have to change the langpack release schedule everytime we change the day on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule <TLE> dpm: ok, the "standard" scedule is, testing starts thurs, testing deadline on wed (+1 or 2 weeks) and released thurs (+1 or 2 weeks) <TLE> so then we will announce testing start this coming thursday and release 2 weeks after that <dpm> sounds good. Let me have a chat with pitti in a few minutes and then check out what it looks like timewise for the release team. I'll need to request the generation of a full language pack as well (for point releases we always need full langpacks, no deltas) <dpm> let me come back to you in a few minutes <TLE> ok <TLE> dpm: meeting for the next 1.5 hours, will check in later <dpm> TLE, ok, thanks for letting me know, I'll post the outcome of the chat with pitti here for you to read later <TLE> thanks <TLE> well skipping the first hour meeting, I'll get started on the natty schedule as well and work with the same weekdays, let me know as soon as you know something <dpm> TLE, ok, well if you join us on #ubuntu-desktop, pitti is just answering <TLE> will do <dpm> TLE, just to give you some context: I looked at the dates and saw that it was way too tight if we started next week. We always have to cater for the possibility that langpacks need to be regenerated if there is any breakage or if there is negative feedback on the testing. Thus here was my proposal: <dpm> <dpm> heya pitti, seeing that the 10.04.2 release is on the 17th Feb, we need to generate new Lucid language packs. Here's a proposal: <dpm> As there isn't much time left if we want to have time to regenerate them if there is any problem, <dpm> I think I should request a full export today. <dpm> That would mean the PPA is built on Saturday and on Monday we can upload to -proposed and announce the testing period to translators <dpm> Does that sound ok? If we want to give people ~a week to test them, what would be the latest day we could upload them to -updates? <dpm> --> cking (~scottashley@example.org) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop <dpm> virtuald (~vld@unaffiliated/virtuald) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop <dpm> seb128 (~seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop <dpm> <-- jmarsden s'ha desconnectat (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) <dpm> dbarth__ s'ha desconnectat () <dpm> --> dbarth__ (~{{EMAIL+PHONE}}) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop <dpm> sabdfl (~sabdfl@ubuntu/member/sabdfl) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop <dpm> jmarsden (~jmarsden@unaffiliated/jmarsden) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop <dpm> <pitti> hi dpm (sorry, talking to other folks ATM) <dpm> dpm: that sounds good indeed, yes <TLE> thanks <dpm> That gives short notice for translators if they want to finish off any Lucid translation <dpm> as I'll be requesting the export today <dpm> but I prefer to be on the safe side <dpm> in any case, if I announce this early today, that would give people still some hours until 22:00 UTC to fix or finish any critical translations <TLE> yes <TLE> dpm: couldn't you just annouce last chance to correct and testings beginds monday today and the follow up with testing deadline later <dpm> TLE, yeah, that's what I was thinking <dpm> I'll do that now <dpm> so I'll send an e-mail explaining the situation and I'll send another one with an update after the release meeting <TLE> yes <TLE> dpm: now I really have to go to meeting, would you have a look at the draft for natty schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/NattyLanguagePackReleaseSchedule and see if you can spot any problems, then I'll check in with you shortly before lunch of after <dpm> TLE, sounds good, just finishing off the announcement mail to translators and then I'll have a look. Thanks <TLE> great 33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99ab np <andrejz> hello dpm! I have a quesion for you :) <andrejz> it's about a string in ubitquity debconf <andrejz> You can try ${RELEASE} without making any changes to your computer, directly from this ${MEDIUM}. <andrejz> Do you happen to know where i could change the $medium variable? <dpm> hi andrejz :) <dpm> what do you mean by "change the variable"? <andrejz> because in slovenian we add stuff to words. so with the current value of $medium this sentence can not be gramaticylly correct <andrejz> well it works like this <andrejz> i tried 11.04 today <andrejz> and the string in slovenian ends with "usb disk" <andrejz> but correct would be "usb diska" <dpm> oh, I see <andrejz> note the "a" in the end <dpm> yeah, I understand <andrejz> the problem is i cannot change the sentence in a way to sound correct with "usb disk" <andrejz> usually this is possible but in this case it's not <andrejz> in addition this is the first sentence a user sees when installing/trying ubuntu <dpm> unfortunately, there is no way to change the variable. What I would recommend you to do is to file a bug against ubiquity and explain the case, and why a variable canot be used in this case <andrejz> and first impression is very important <dpm> I'm sure it affects other languages as well <andrejz> ok <dpm> so yeah, that'd be my suggestion ^ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug <dpm> you can add a task for the 'ubuntu-translations' project as well when you've done it <andrejz> dpm how can i add ubuntu translators to the bug? I don't see the link? <dpm> andrejz, can you give me the link to the bug? Then I can show you how to do it <andrejz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/712974 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 712974 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Impossible to properly translate ubiquity due to usage of $medium variable (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <dpm> andrejz, ok, to do this: first click on the "Also affects project" link on the bug page. Then, on the next screen: <dpm> click on the "Choose another project" link <dpm> Finally, on the "Project:" text field, <dpm> replace "ubiquity" by "ubuntu-translations" <dpm> Then press the "Continue" button and you're all set :) <andrejz> ok done thanks! <dpm> cool, thank you :) <dpm> TLE, ok, the Natty schedule looks great, I've got two pieces of feedback: <dpm> 1/ I'd make all the testing cycles 1 week, as we did in Maverick. For two reasons: <dpm> * Consistence. And it's easier to remember that language pack testing lasts a week, rather than having to consult if it's a 2 week or 1 week cycle <dpm> * The QA team have 1 week testing period for their milestones. It would be good to align with their QA practices <dpm> 2/ I realise that's something that should probably be changed in the template, but I think, rather than having the "1 week cycle" text in the first column it would be more helpful to have the week number, similarly to what's done in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule (i.e. +2, +6, etc.) <dpm> 3/ Ok, that's more than two pieces of feedback, but it just dawned on me :) Perhaps we should rework the template to align more with the general w.u.c/${CODENAME}ReleaseSchedule layout. People are already familiar with it, and it would be easier to migrate the language pack schedule pages to the main schedule page if in the future we decide to move the langpack info to the main calendar. We can do this later, I think we should now concentrate on g <dpm> etting the Lucid and Natty schedules done <dpm> TLE, on 3/, I've gone ahead and done the changes, as a proposal of the alternative layout to match the main release schedule page. This way it's easier to see the effect. Let me know what you think (we can revert to a previous wiki revision if you like): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/NattyLanguagePackReleaseSchedule <dpm> ah, too slow typing, he's gone :/ <TLE> dpm: hey <TLE> I has to reboot, for some wierd reason my mouse sometimes behaves very strange <dpm> hi TLE, no worries, I just sent the feedback per e-mail, just in case <TLE> thanks for e-mailing it to me, I will have a look at in a little while, untill when are you here today <dpm> either 19:00 or 20:00, I think <TLE> ok great <dpm> :) * dpm lunch <kamusin> Hola! <dpm> hola kamusin, como te va? <TLE> dpm: hey <dpm> hey TLE <TLE> i am looking at your comments now <TLE> changing to one week sound fine for me <TLE> and counting week in the first column ditto <TLE> same for the style <TLE> of the page <TLE> I can see that you have already made some of the corrections <dpm> great <TLE> I'm afraid however that you moved the wrong end of the interval, if it is still supposed to follow the schedule we made ;) <TLE> but thats a minor detail <dpm> It was probably my mistake, as I wasn't intending to change the original schedule <TLE> the week number + 2, 6, 12, 22, 35 and 43 refer to the week they should be released, not where the testing starts <dpm> oh, I see what you mean <dpm> then no, it wasn't my intention to change that <dpm> sorry <TLE> np, I'll change the dates and then hopefully we are done with the wiki version <dpm> ok, cool <TLE> actually for the first ones the dates were right but the week numbers off, at least the way I count it <TLE> dpm: I think for the one that arrives right after x-mas it makes sense to keep the 2 week schedule, upload for testing right before x-mas and release right after new years <dpm> TLE, yeah, I was actually looking at it now :) <dpm> I agree <dpm> yeah, feel free to correct what's necessary. I didn't check carefully the week numbers to match the dates, I just added the week numbers you had in the page with the previous layout to the first row/date <TLE> dpm: there we go, the week numbers seem to be differently aligned when they span several rows and when they don't, you wouldn't happen to know the syntax to fix it by heart? <dpm> TLE, vv <dpm> ||<|2> row cell 1 || row cell 2 || <dpm> || row cell 2 || <dpm> For a table with two rows <dpm> the first column spanning 2 rows <TLE> yes that's the markup to make it span, but how do I fix the alignment (row cell 1 is centered) but non spanning cells are left aligned <dpm> oh, alignment, sorry <dpm> no, I don't know then. Perhaps a bug in moin or in the Ubuntu wiki theme? <dpm> is the different alignment very obvious on the rendered page? <TLE> it is in my browser, have a look for your self, it is saved now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/NattyLanguagePackReleaseSchedule <TLE> anyway, I can search for it my self, I just thought maybe you knew the magic words <dpm> no, sorry :( <kamusin> bien gracias dpm y tu? :) <dpm> it looks fine (or non-obvious for me in FF, though) looking at it with chromium now <TLE> I'm using chrome <dpm> kamusin, bien, bien, tambien :) <TLE> dpm I figured it out: replace <|2> with <style="text-align: left;" |2> then it's all good <dpm> ah, so explicitly setting the alignment <TLE> dpm: yes, I don't know why i changes it when you merge cells, but this will work <TLE> other than that do we then agree that it is as it should be at this point? <dpm> Yeah, but let me have a final look to confirm <dpm> TLE, looks great. I think the +1 date might be a bit tight, but let's leave it as it is and refine it when we reach that point. <TLE> dpm: maybe, I actually I think it would be great if we could give a try, I think it is good to have it for those rare very ugly errors, but we'll see <TLE> ok then, it's about time to wrap it up, I'm getting thirsty and I can hear the friday bar calling me, so status is: <TLE> natty wiki version complete (for now), you e-mail me about the decision about the dates (all 3 of them) for the final lucid release and then I update the wiki page accordingly and then it is done <TLE> and after that I add both of them to the google calendar this weekend <dpm> TLE, oh yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm just saying that in that week we've got other things to do which require different people to be available, such as setting up the schedule for exports in LP, setting up the Natty PPA, etc., so this might get in the way of meeting the +1 deadline and push it to +2 <dpm> TLE, great. Before you go, do you think you could update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-language-pack-updates-schedule with the actions that are done? <TLE> yes I agree 33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99ab yes I will update it <TLE> btw, about the lucid lang pack <TLE> I think it makes a lot of sense to make the lang pack update even if it does not get to go on the cd, and then just send it out as a regular update <TLE> just to make sure that all the final work that people have done on lucid will get sent out there, being a LTS and all <dpm> yes, I'll make sure we address that, even if it's just released slightly after .2 in -updates <TLE> yes 33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99ab you have a nice weekend * TLE is off for a beer <dpm> TLE, you too! thanks! <kamusin> hello again, please could somebody tell me the name of package that have all description for an application (description for your language)? by the way, is not debian/control file #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-05 <trijntje> Hi all, how do ubuntu package numbers correspond to those of gnome? For example yelp has yelp 2.91.10-0ubuntu2 on LP, but the highest version upstream is 2-30 (or master) <happyaron> trijntje: 2.91 is "master" <happyaron> trijntje: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointNinetyone <trijntje> thanks for the link <trijntje> is launchpad able to automatically import the latest packages from upstream or should this still be done manually? <happyaron> manually <happyaron> at the beginning of a development cycle, launchpad auto sync from Debian, and we stop the sync at a special time called Debian Import Freeze, then all packages are uploaded either manually, or triggered by hand and then upload to archive with a semi-automatical script <trijntje> happyaron, ok thaks, I've heard people are working on upstream import, but I wasnt sure what te status of that was <happyaron> "upstream import" is probably for translations? I don't think people would do upstream import for packages. <trijntje> yes, upstream import for translations #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-07 <dpm> good morning all <TLE> good morning <udienz> rejected, afternoon in here :) <dpm> :) #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-08 <dpm> good morning all <gtriderxc> hi <gtriderxc> "~~for best installation results please ensure that Your computer" - a post during installation, before the ubiquity slideshow. i forgot in which package it was meven though i translated it and even reported a bug;P. can any1 help me? <dpm> hi gtriderxc, I think it's ubiquity-debconf <gtriderxc> thx <dpm> no worries :) <artnay> "Click on this icon to connect to a wireless network" says osd-notify <artnay> and because it's osd-notify, user can't click on it... *g* <artnay> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/network-manager-applet/+pots/nm-applet/ comes from here, I'm filing a bug against nm-applet <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/715168 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 715168 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "User can't click notify OSD as instructed by nm-applet (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <artnay> add tags if necessary #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-09 <dpm> good morning all <TLE> good morning <TLE> so how did it go, did the builds work for lucid? <TLE> dpm: ^^ <dpm> TLE, hi, just a sec, for some reason the net is being a bit slow today... <dpm> TLE, they've been built and uploaded to proposed: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/language-pack-ca-base (here's the Catalan one as an example, but I haven'T had the chance to test them yet) <dpm> but it seems the Finnish FF translations are broken, given the feedback <artnay> dpm: feedback where? #? <dpm> artnay, on the translators list -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2011-February/004395.html <artnay> dpm: thanks, will look into it <fromishps> Hey all <fromishps> I'm a friend of jtv, I'm going to myanmar to the barcamps in Yangon and Mandalay <fromishps> I will try to do an Ubuntu Install-fest <fromishps> and can recruit translators <jtv> dpm: ^^ <dpm> fromishps, ah, cool! <fromishps> what guides can I use to get people started <dpm> let me give you the links... <dpm> fromishps, you can start with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/QuickStartGuide <fromishps> ok cool <fromishps> I've just skimmed a bit of that <fromishps> will look at it properly later <dpm> fromishps, you'd also be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact/ <fromishps> Once I've got a bunch of volunteers, are there any stumbling blocks I should be wary of <fromishps> ? <fromishps> they'll probably be keen but a bit clueless about linux, with good english skills <fromishps> most people I met there hadn't heard of IRC either <dpm> fromishps, you should probably get familiar with the concept of upstreams: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Upstream - apart from that, I'd say that the most important thing is to keep communication between the team, either with a mailing list, IRC, Forum, physical meetings, etc. <dpm> and if you've got any questions, just ask them here or on the ubuntu-translators mailing list (in those links above^) <fromishps> sure, thanks <dpm> fromishps, let me know how it works, I think this is an awesome initiative <fromishps> I'll do my best <fromishps> Mozilla was going to set up a community there but the rep got his visa cancelled which has dismayed a lot of people <fromishps> rejected I mean <dpm> :/ <fromishps> I still think that will happen, so there are motivated people there, and the BarCamps will definitely be the place to find them <fromishps> one problem is the great lack of knowledge about linux <fromishps> very few people seem to have heard about it <fromishps> wanna change that <dpm> cool <fromishps> I'll keep you posted, I'm leaving on Friday and we should have 200 install CDs ready for Mandalay <fromishps> that's 12-13 <fromishps> feb <fromishps> Yangon is 19-20 <fromishps> btw anyone who wants to go still has time for yangon if they are near a myanmar embassy <dpm> :) <fromishps> Ok, I think I've just recruited one person already. She was the person mozilla were going to talk to. <fromishps> not a bad start <dpm> brilliant :) <Mirv> dpm: the Finnish firefox translation is btw untouched since last April, so the export feature has just somehow broken again <dpm> hi Mirv, I think the exports are ok. I believe the problem lies in the po2xpi tool, which is used to create the FF xpis from the data exported from LP. I've also seen the same breakage in Occitan <dpm> thanks for the testing, btw :) <Mirv> ok, po2xpi then :) <dpm> Mirv, perhaps you can help me on that. I've seen that so far the only languages that have got broken FF translations are the ones put on a "whitelist" txt file in po2xpi. These are Finnish and Occitan. Any ideas why Finnish is on this whitelist? <dpm> Did the Finnish translations not make in time for a particular Mozilla release and were included in Ubuntu through this whitelisting? <Mirv> dpm: hmm, my only memory from that kind of thing is simply that "it used to work" after asac at some point in history did additional fixes to po2xpi. Firefox should be as translated as possible in upstream <Mirv> asac might know more, it was possibly also because I was the one who debugged the po2xpi problems with asac at some point, so maybe he then whitelisted when he knew a language that for sure works <Mirv> and kept others not sure cases non-whitelisted <dpm> Mirv, right, do you happen to remember which problems there where with the Finnish xpi back then? <dpm> I'm thinking of simply removing it from the whitelist, so that at least they can be generated without trouble, and worry about the po2xpi fixes later <Mirv> dpm: well, exactly similar kind of issues, ie. XML errors which render the whole Firefox non-functional. <Mirv> so these bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/429835 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 429835 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 4 other projects) "[MASTER] chrome error when viewing untrusted https site using firefox with some locales (affects: 36) (dups: 4) (heat: 95)" [High,Fix released] <Mirv> asac:"finnish is struck by the still open langpack-o-matic part of this bug because its one of the few whitelisted for po2xpi ... i removed fi from whitelist for now in 9.10 ... once its fixed we will enable it again." <Mirv> no answer to why it was whitelisted :D <Mirv> (comment #23) <artnay> have you guys found this already? https://translations.launchpad.net/canonical-identity-provider/2.x/+pots/django <artnay> not all the languages are being imported but it will hopefully change soon, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-identity-provider/+bug/715744 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 715744 in canonical-identity-provider "Inform translators what to do with partly translated languages (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <artnay> maybe the word should be spread via ML #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-10 <dpm> good morning all <gtriderxc> hi <gtriderxc> I have a question. I'm translating GRUB and have some problems with HASH. 4 example "Specify hash to use." does this hash have anything in common with encryption or is it any other kind of #? <gtriderxc> anyway is the GRUB the best choice? does anybody see something more important here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+lang/pl <gtriderxc> for I have no more ideas <dpm> let me have a look... <dpm> gtriderxc, that looks great, it seems the Polish team is rocking it! You'll soon have more strings to translate in that first page, since unity will get some new strings soon. As per what to translate next, here are two suggestions: complete the 2nd page -> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+lang/pl/+index?start=75&batch=75 especially gnome-session-2.0, which has got several Ubuntu-specific strings, and gbrainy. Also, you can start t <dpm> ranslating the Ubuntu docs <gtriderxc> ok, thanks for tips:) <damascene> Hi, <damascene> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/108979 "All done now. Please set your guidelines and enjoy translating in Launchpad!" <damascene> How to set the guidelines <damascene> done <damascene> We need to make the direction RTL in our guide pages <gtriderxc> what is "Fallback Message " <gtriderxc> "Force Fallback Message to show" <gtriderxc> GNOME-session <gtriderxc> also "[...]Installing new driver can maybe be a help.\nYou should try the Ubuntu classic [...]" what is "/n"? <Barzogh> Hello <andrejz> hello <dpm> hi damascene, here are some links that should help you getting started with creating translation guidelines: <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationGuidelines <dpm> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/Guide <dpm> damascene, in the meantime, may I ask you to add some welcome text to https://launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-ar ? An empty page is not very welcoming for new translators landing there, and does not encourage communication. A brief note in Arabic saying welcome, what the team is about and where and how the team communicates would be extremely useful, and should not take more than a few minutes to write <damascene> dpm: ok. but could you please tell me how to make the text RTL? <dpm> damascene, where do you want to make text RTL? <dpm> is that not supported in LP already? E.g. as in https://launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-ara <damascene> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArabicTranslationTeam/NewTranslator <damascene> no it is not <dpm> it is in Launchpad, but you're asking about the wiki <damascene> you see the text aligned to the left while it should be aligned to the right <damascene> actually both <dpm> damascene, so this can be one of these, I think: either RTL is not well supported in MoinMoin, or the new Ubuntu wiki theme has a bug <damascene> and what about launchpad team description? it has the same problem. <damascene> this is about the wiki http://moinmo.in/HebrewSupport/Planning <damascene> Arabic is close to Hebrew <dpm> re: the Launchpad page, Launchpad is developed with Zope templates, which generate the HTML. So this is either a problem with LP generating them or with Zope's RTL support <dpm> damascene, which browser are you using? Another Arab speaker using Chrome tells me right now, referring to the wiki page "text (at least the arabic part) looks good to me and correctly aligned .. can't see what's wrong with it" <damascene> dpm: firefox <damascene> Who is that person? may I talk to him? <dpm> damascene, ok, I think we've figured it out: it's an issue with the new Ubuntu wiki theme. It looks ok with the old theme. You can talk to kim0 or nigelb in the #ubuntu-community-team channel <damascene> Arabic starts from the right like in here http://wiki.linuxac.org/doku.php <dpm> so I'll file a bug <damascene> dpm: are you sure the MoinMoin supports RTL first? <damascene> it is not a common feature <dpm> damascene, I'm not sure it does fully support it, that's what I meant earlier <damascene> brb <damascene> looks like Moin has good Arabic support http://moinmo.in/WikiSandBox/RtlTest <damascene> dpm: if I login RTL support works <damascene> it is the template <dpm> what template? <dpm> oh, I see <dpm> yeah, as I said, it seems like a bug in the Ubuntu wiki theme <dpm> the old theme supported RTL <dpm> but the new one seems to break it <dpm> I was going to report this, but if you want to do it in the meantime, that would be great. Here's the project: <dpm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug <damascene> Ok <damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/716513 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 716513 in ubuntu-website "Wiki RTL support is broken in the new template (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <dpm> damascene, great, thanks a lot. I've made a few adjustments and I've added a couple of screenshots to illustrate the problem <damascene> thank you <dpm> Mirv, does the Lucid Finnish langpack (esp. Firefox) look ok to you now? <dpm> I'll remove it from the list now, since new packages were generated, but if you could update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA that'd be great <Mirv> dpm: now seems to work, although I'm not on the same machine. updating the list. #ubuntu-translators 2011-02-11 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> morning <gtriderxc> hi <dpm> hey andrejz, hey gtriderxc <gtriderxc> will anyone help me with my yesterday's question? <gtriderxc> wchich was: <gtriderxc> what is "Fallback Message " <gtriderxc> <gtriderxc> "Force Fallback Message to show" <gtriderxc> <gtriderxc> GNOME-session <gtriderxc> <gtriderxc> also "[...]Installing new driver can maybe be a help.\nYou should try the Ubuntu classic [...]" what is "/n"? <andrejz> i don't know what exactly this relates to, but fallback in the "backup" option <andrejz> so let's say you have compiz (or unity) and by default this should run <dpm> gtriderxc, the fallback message is the message shown to the user if, when logging in, it is detected that he/she hasn't got a 3D-capable graphics card. In this case, unity cannot be run and the session has to fall back to unity 2D or the classic desktop (the one with gnome-panel) <andrejz> if compiz crashes and cannot be autostarted as a fallback metacity will be used <gtriderxc> thanks and how about a "/n"? <dpm> gtriderxc, \n is a new line character. In general, you shouldn't see them in textual form as in here. This particular message has been rewritten to remove the "\n", but it hasn't yet made it into Launchpad, so I'd leave it without translation for now <dpm> until it is changed to something else <gtriderxc> ok I will <gtriderxc> so simply /n had to be &nbsp; <gtriderxc> or br rather <dpm> hi happyaron, do you think you could have a quick test to the zh_CN langpack for Lucid and add the result here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA ? It would be great if Chinese users got an update for 10.04.2 <dpm> gtriderxc, the same for Polish, do you think you could test the langpack? <dpm> the same for anyone else on the channel, go test, spread the word! :) <gtriderxc> ok <andrejz> already done :) <dpm> gtriderxc, cool <dpm> even if you haven't got a Lucid machine, you can test them on a virtual machine with VirtualBox <dpm> andrejz, yeah, I saw it ;) <gtriderxc> zh_CN langpack - but what's that and where I can find it? <dpm> gtriderxc, no, that was for the Chinese guys. I was asking you if you could test the Polish language pack <gtriderxc> :)ok <dpm> you'll simply need a Lucid machine (it can be e.g. in VirtualBox) and have the lucid-proposed repositories enabled <dpm> then you can install the new language packs and test them following the procedure at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA <dpm> once finished, you can simply leave feedback on the table at the end of that page <gtriderxc> I need an hour to download and install 10.04. no problem <happyaron> dpm: will do it in a couple of hours, thanks! <andrejz> it's unfortunate there hasn't been enough time for more teams to test the translations <dpm> andrejz, I know, but we weren't expecting problems with the langpacks either. In any case, they can still test them until next week, which should give them more than enough time. For languages that are not in the CD, it does not make any difference if the packages are uploaded today or next week <andrejz> true <dpm> but yeah, as I said on the e-mail, I'm sorry it's been in such short notice nevertheless :( <andrejz> dpm, it might be possible for me to come to Budapest in May (not sure yet). But in the case I do, i will need some money from Canonical (for the place to stay). I was wondering if i can put
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