#edubuntu 2005-10-01 <kerinin> i'm interested in setting up a classroom full of computers in an underprivileged international school (to be used for ESL) - can anyone point me to some resources? my current approach is to put edubuntu on a server and connect 20+ monitors/keyboards as X hosts to the central host. my goal is to get as many terminals installed as cheaply as possible. <kerinin> ideas? <magnon> well, edubuntu is surely a good start :-) <magnon> clients can probably be found from businesses who want to get rid of old machines, they save money by giving them away to you <magnon> the server seems to be harder to find "for free", so that's often an investment <magnon> http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535 <magnon> wrong channel :p <shaga> :) <magnon> politics don't belong here * magnon apologises <kerinin> thanks guys! <magnon> kerinin: just drop by any time if you need help <magnon> european daytime is best though I guess :P <kerinin> right now i'm trying to find used thin clients, apparently a company called wyse used to make them, and you can get them for about 10USD <mpm2> hello all; I've been following the edubuntu project and am interested in making it happen in my classroom; I'm a 2nd grade teacher and currently have about 15 machines in my class, most of which are running Ubuntu (Hoary). Are most of you developers or teachers or ?? should I join the mailing list or is it very technical? The Edubuntu Testing page says after install to "try netboot" on one of your clients... How do I set up cl <mpm2> kind of a windy hello! I thought I might just say hello, but better to get to the heart of my questions :-) <xuniluser> so silenet here... <xuniluser> silent <jsgotangco> hi <xuniluser> hello <jsgotangco> xuniluser, its not so silent after all then :) <shaga> nope <xuniluser> jsgotangco: ok... but passive... anyways, when will be the official release of ubuntu <jsgotangco> oct. 13 <xuniluser> hmmmmm ok... 2 weeks to go. hehehehe.... we badly needed edubuntu and were praying that it will answer our needs in the laboratory <xuniluser> we are removing all windows in our university... <jsgotangco> have you tried the preview/daily build? <xuniluser> hmmm not yet... i do it <jsgotangco> by getting the preview/daily build, you'll have an idea how it works <highvoltage> jsgotangco: is it true that oct 13 is mdz's birthday? <jsgotangco> highvoltage, no idea, sure is great if its his birthday that day <JaneW> yes mdz's birthday is Oct 13 ;) <Zaheer> hello, hello :) <Seveas> /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list <Seveas> hmm <Seveas> odd, the '/' is a command :) <Zaheer> can anyone tell what exactly is in language-pack-kde-en-base and how big it is... cause my install has been sitting there for last 20mins or so just installing that package.. <poningru> Seveas: dude you put something infront of the / <poningru> / <JaneW> ogra: ping <ogra> JaneW, pong <JaneW> ogra: did you see mdz's e-mail to me? I guess the LOTR patch is a moot point now... <ogra> JaneW, it always was :) flint just didnt get it :) <JaneW> ogra: I have several more e-mails from flint, but I think it's best to let him dig his own hole here... <ogra> JaneW, and sorry, but sabdfl set my new highes prio to xscreensaver again... <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/xss.html <ogra> ^^^ have to finish this first :/ <JaneW> ogra: ok so g-s-s is out then? <ogra> since more than a week, but xss needs heavy (time consuming) changes <JaneW> good <JaneW> more than a week? <ogra> (the two buttons on the right are a mess to implement) <JaneW> oh wait was x the new one sabdfl wanted? <JaneW> so sabdfl doesn;t want to revert then? <ogra> err, quite exactly after the TB meeting... not exactly a week <JaneW> ok I'm confussed <ogra> sabdfl just wants the lock dialog to look like that, he doesnt care which screensaver app we use <JaneW> Gnome was the new one, but we have reverted BACK to x right? <jsgotangco> yeah <ogra> the problem is, gss doesnt work righ yet <shaga> I'm trying something here at work, on lame windows machine. could someone from us try to connect to this? ftp://shag.ath.cx <ogra> and xss is missing the lock dialog <JaneW> ok, I'm with you <shaga> s/us/u.s. <JaneW> ogra: how hard is it to get in? <ogra> i hope it takes me less then a week :( <ogra> its really hard to get something into code that is written to prevent *any* addition <ogra> the xss author sees it as a security feature that nothing can get added <JaneW> hmmm <ogra> stealing time... <JaneW> why are you responsible for the screensaver stuff? <ogra> because i cared for it since the end of warty, it was my entry point into ubuntu <ogra> nobody knows the code as good as i do... sabdfl knows that <ogra> i guess others would take twice as long to get into it <ogra> its very hard to understand and written in a very odd way... additionally missing a lot of code comments <JaneW> ok <JaneW> have you spoken to sabdfl at all recently? <JaneW> I need to get an answer on the edubuntu CD issue <ogra> saturday <ogra> but only about xss tuff <JaneW> i.e. are we or aren;t we going to press some for the launch... <ogra> he should be back from holiday today <JaneW> I think he will be in the CT offices tomorrow, I will see if I can catch him <JaneW> he is apparently in CT <JaneW> I am at home today, so I am not sure if he is there... <ogra> ah, good <ogra> he'll be in #c if he is around i guess <jsgotangco> ogra, good luck i'll just bug you before the week ends <ogra> ok <JaneW> ogra: and edubuntu dev in general, did we get a good CD build for the w/e? <ogra> i havent tested it yet, but it looks ok... (have the iso here, will do a test install today) <JaneW> will we be ready for 13 Oct? <jsgotangco> i tried the once last saturday and it installed fine <ogra> yeah <ogra> JaneW, it gets a bit tight now, i didnt plan this much time for xss <ogra> but still doable... <ogra> we still have 12942, the progress reporting in the installer for ltsp installation is still missing and autogeneration if the dchp.conf file in ltsp isnt done yet (mdz knows) i had to spend my weekend with xss... <ogra> the dhcp stuff is trivial... but will need testing <ogra> worst case we could go withoit the progress reporting, it just looks odd... <JaneW> progess reporting? <ogra> 12942 is a thing i guess i have to poke jbailey more about <ogra> the installer builds the ltsp environment in the first stage before first reboot <ogra> it takes between 5 and 10 min <ogra> there is a progres bar, but that jumps to 50% after 2min and then to 100% at the very end... <ogra> so users dont really see progress <ogra> its cosmetic, but you could think that the install stopped... <JaneW> oic, yes could be confussing and frustrating <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> unless they go to vt1 <ogra> worst case i'll rip out the progress completely and just write on the screen please wait 10min until ltsp is done <jsgotangco> or somewhere <JaneW> ogra: that's could work <jsgotangco> vt4 i mean <JaneW> that <JaneW> ogra: just do that if there's no time to do something more elegant <ogra> its not nice and its not what i want, but its a fallback <ogra> yup <JaneW> ogra: at least ppl know what to expect then, and what's going on <jsgotangco> we can add it as a known issue <ogra> oh and i need to fix some gcompris bugs, but thats done in an afternoon... nothing really time consuming <JaneW> ok * ogra goes coding.... might be unresponsive today... <JaneW> bye <ogra> i dont go away :) <ogra> i'm just playing with screen locking so i'll see more of my locked screen than from xchat ;) <jsgotangco> the aim is to make it look like g-s-s? <ogra> jsgotangco, yup <ogra> which requires the full username and two additional buttons beside the cosmetic changes <ogra> adding buttons isnt easy here.... (adding them is, but making them functional is a PITA) <jsgotangco> ickkk from what i've heard before x-s-s isn't really comment friendly <ogra> see my mockup from above <Zaheer> hi can i ask a question about the gpl here? <JaneW> zaheer: ok <Zaheer> thanks :D <Zaheer> here goes <Zaheer> Lets say for example i have written a piece of software that i <Zaheer> distribute on a cd for a small fee, can i put any software released under <Zaheer> gnu gpl on there aswell and still charge for my software. I am not <Zaheer> charging for the open source software but for my software only. <Zaheer> .. am i in any violation of the gpl at all??? <JaneW> er.... <JaneW> I am certainly no expert <JaneW> but as I understand it OSS doesn;t have to be free of charge... <Zaheer> i realize that... although i dont want i feel it takes away the goodeness from oss <jsgotangco> yes <Zaheer> so i am in violation, could you explain in which way please. <jsgotangco> no you're not <Zaheer> oh :D <jsgotangco> you just sell your software right <Zaheer> yes. <jsgotangco> it was writeen from scratch by you? <Zaheer> yes. <jsgotangco> becuase if you pulled some sources from gpl'ed source, you're bound to the gpl as well <Zaheer> yes i am aware of that. <jsgotangco> why not just ship your own software separately? <Zaheer> let me explain i have an apllication the writes out quotations to a text file and in order for the user to ship that text file in non editable format i thort i can distribute pdf-creator with my software to allow the user to print the quotes to a pdf. <Zaheer> am still allowed to do that? <Zaheer> is there a problem with the terminal services client in edubuntu?? everytime i connect to a TS and close the connection an error message pops up. <Zaheer> the error message : "NOT IMPLEMENTED : System pointer message 0x7f00" <ogra> where do you get this message ? <Zaheer> after i closed the TS Session using the "x" <ogra> using the x ?? <raoulduke> hi all. <ogra> Zaheer, you talk abut a ltsp client ?? <ogra> hi raoulduke <raoulduke> so, anyone here using the preview release in an educational setting currently? <ogra> raoulduke, jelkner uses it in a school already... <raoulduke> jelkner isn't in the # right now, and I didn't want to be presumptuous and email him <ogra> the rest of users are rather testing in a lab environment <raoulduke> but if he were here, I'd want to talk to him. <ogra> he is in a US timezone and not around very often (since he's teacher and has work to do) <raoulduke> I'm about to be cursed with numerous machines of various manufacture and mhz and was told to put XP on them. I can't maintain a single install image for that, so I'm going edubuntu (already running ubuntu as a client around the school---) <raoulduke> I'm a US east coast teacher too. <raoulduke> perhaps I'll just email him then, and let him answer on his own time. <ogra> ah, great <raoulduke> I'm actually teaching one class using his ThinkCSpy book <raoulduke> (how to think like a computer scientist, python edition, co-authored by jeff elkner) <ogra> i dont think you will disturb him if you mail him <raoulduke> thanks ogra <raoulduke> I'll be back later. other nicks I use are vmarks and vincenzio- see those? it's still me. <ogra> if you got specific technical questions, feel free to poke me :) <ogra> hmm, to late <Zaheer> Yagisan - thanks for your help on friday.. well to all those who made a contribution :) <Zaheer> although im still having difficulity installing the vmtools any ideas to get me going? <Yagisan> Zaheer: No worries <Yagisan> I haven't got on on to vmtools yet - I just had two machines die :( <Yagisan> what specific feature of vmtools do you need ? <Zaheer> well i cant install it .. i mount the cd but i cant run any scripts to start installing vmware normally there that install.pl script but its not there. <Zaheer> just another question about the gpl :D if i may? i promise this will be the last. <Zaheer> or even better is the a chat room i can go to for information about the gpl? <magnon> just ask away <magnon> I know a fair bit, I'll answer as good as I can <Zaheer> cool :) does the gpl infect other lics in a distribution? for example if i have a software packges that has lic1 and another with the gpl <Zaheer> is it then required of me to release the software in lic1 under the gpl as well? <Zaheer> they both on the same cd? <mpt> Zaheer: no. <mpt> For example, Ubuntu contains some software under the GPL and some under other licenses. <ogra> Zaheer, if you take software thats under gpl and improve it, you are forced to release this work under gpl... but thats all <ogra> (if you consider releasing it) <mpt> Zaheer: see the last paragraph of section 2. <Zaheer> ok 2secs :) ..going to read. <Zaheer> In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program <Zaheer> with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of <Zaheer> a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under <Zaheer> the scope of this License. <Zaheer> aaahhh :D <jkrogh> ogra: It there anything special about the kernel in the chroot-environment? Or is it the seme kernel that's used everywehre else? <ogra> its absolutely the same... <Zaheer> thanks guys and/or girls. <ogra> see the ltsp-update-kernels script ;) <ogra> (its run by ltsp-build-client) <Zaheer> what makes edubuntu different from ubuntu? <ogra> in fact you got three identical kernels on your system after install (at least in edubuntu) <ogra> one in /boot, one in your tftpboot and one in /opt/ltsp <shaga> Zaheer: ltsp-system, artwork, educational tools imho :p <shaga> but I'm sure I don't know it all <shaga> installation as well <ogra> Zaheer, ltsp by default, edu apps, schooltool preinstalled, (moodle will follow up before release), artwork and a bunch of different defualt settings <shaga> a bit <shaga> ogra: I didn't forget much from my experience then ;) <ogra> nope := <ogra> ) <ogra> in fact you'll get the same with a default breezy install to hich you add edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop <Zaheer> about the artwork ... ITS REALLY COOL!!! i like the whole kiddie look although the firefox icon looks alot like the gimp :D <ogra> s/hitch/whitch <ogra> Zaheer, thanks :) <JaneW> ogra: I must switch to edubuntu soon... <ogra> JaneW, do you have breezy already ? <JaneW> ogra: I haven't been brave enough yet *blush* <JaneW> ogra: no I mostly use hoary <JaneW> I have an OLD (late June) ver of Breezy, but it has no sound <JaneW> other than that it is just like hoary <ogra> JaneW, just update to breezy and put edubuntu-desktop on top... then you got the workstation version :) <JaneW> :) * ogra guesses JaneW doesnt want to run a ltsp server on her laptop :) <JaneW> ogra: not really ;) <highvoltage> hi ogra <ogra> hi highvoltage <highvoltage> do you know if anyone has had problems using the lts.conf file? <highvoltage> i edited it at a school today, while playing with edubuntu from my laptop, and when i used a fairly standard lts.conf file, the clients' keyboards stops working just after ldm starts. <highvoltage> (sorry if that doesn't make sense- long day) <shaga> I haven't had a chance to use ltsp <shaga> actually I don't even know anything about it <highvoltage> even with a very small lts.conf file, the keyboards freeze when ldm starts, and it doesn't seem that the resolutions/settings chage. <shaga> only how to conf installtion of edubuntu <ogra> highvoltage, there was a mail in edubuntu-devel iirc it was fom rickfitz <shaga> for it <ogra> highvoltage, sorry, i havent got time this week to debug much, mark set xscreensaver to my highest proirity... that takes a lot of time <highvoltage> ogra: no problemo. <highvoltage> i wish i could generate more time. i've never overcommitted myself as far as i've done right now. it's very scary. <ogra> same here... xscreensaver hacking wasnt on my schedule at all <spacey> poor ogra, crappy screensaver stuff ;( <ogra> nah, its fun i love to do it... its just that i havent got the time for such stuff at all <mpt> ogra: Did you nuke the "Someone else" button? <ogra> mpt, http://www.grawert.net/xss.html <ogra> but jdub pokes that i use "switch user" <ogra> and it will take me ages to implement the other two buttons... its totally not in my time schedule, but sabdfl wont accept it without <mpt> ogra: wow, that's awesome <mpt> oh, it's a mockup? :-) <magnon> ogra: I agree with "Switch User" <ogra> so after it took me this afternoon to shuffle around the existing elements, it will take me a week o implement the new buttons :/ <ogra> mpt, yup <ogra> but all existing pieces are in place now, i'm just starting to add new elements <mpt> btw, "Account" should end with "...", and "Ok" should be "OK" (or "Unlock") * mpt heads off to class <ogra> mpt, i think i want a clear wording first what to use for the button... <ogra> (account or user) <magnon> ogra: User is, imo, more correct <ogra> else i'll just call it switch... :p <magnon> "Account" isn't concrete <magnon> account is your bank account, computer account, mail account, etc. <mpt> magnon: It's less correct, because a single user can have multiple accounts <magnon> "User" is the person who sits at the keyboard <magnon> exactly <ogra> magnon, thats something i leave for my boss to decide... <ogra> or for a discussion between jdub and mpt :) <magnon> ogra: FYI, a translation to Norwegian with "User" would be totally correct <magnon> whereas "Account" would be very abstract <ogra> its not translateable anyway <magnon> oh :P <ogra> the code prevents loading of anything not contained in the code... #edubuntu 2005-10-02 <gand> hi I did a test of my first screentutorial on KEduca with edubuntu. Could someone plese test video? http://www.freesmug.org/usex/index.php?/archives/16-KEduca-ScreenTutorial-TEST.html <gand> Thanks in advance <rejden> gand, .avi works <gand> are you on ubuntu? <rejden> yep <gand> what player are you using? <rejden> mplayer + w32codecs <rejden> playing in mozilla-mplayer plugin <gand> nice, does works also h264? <rejden> gand, with what you made the video? <rejden> second i check <gand> little bit complicate :) <rejden> hehe, the h264 works but every 2-3seconds something blink at the top <gand> nice to know, are you on x86? <gand> animation don't work? <rejden> yes x86 <gand> My edubuntu is on PPC so the only free screenreconrder (Xvidcap and istanbul) dont' work <rejden> it works, but during playing something blinks at the top of the screen <rejden> i mean at the top side of video <gand> you mean "animation" have the same problem of H264? <gand> next step I'll add audio, and changing language I can do in italiand and in english <gand> I mean changing system GUI language :) <gand> thanks a lot rejeden, 1.20 am here, I go to sleep <rejden> same time here, sleep well <rejden> i'm going to discover more of quanta plus <john_b> hello, anyone got some edubuntu specific links on sound they can point me too? <john_b> specificly looking for info on sound on terminals <shaga> I didn't use workstation-install for this workstation. was that important? <shaga> and good morning all :) <jsgotangco> well you installed ltsp and dhcp <jsgotangco> hehe <shaga> okay, so no problem then :) <unimatrix9> hi theer <unimatrix9> you are not making live cd's? of edubuntu? <unimatrix9> or planning to make one... <unimatrix9> ?) <jsgotangco> hi all <shaga> hello <jsgotangco> JaneW: our docs are ready for packaging/uploading <JaneW> WooHOO <jsgotangco> me and jbailey have been slaving over it this morning and we got some stuff uploaded <jsgotangco> just let me fix the remaining stuff and its ready by tommorow <shaga> whynot make www.ubuntuguide.org official and add as a homepage for new ubuntu-installs? <jsgotangco> shaga: we have that for 5.10 <jsgotangco> but removed the crack <shaga> oh <ogra> shaga, because ubuntuguideis a mess... <jsgotangco> shaga: we made an faq but made sure its not as crackful as ubuntuguide.org itself <shaga> sounds great, what about adding opera to sources now that is free? <jsgotangco> define free <jsgotangco> it can be added into multiverse why not <shaga> it's not open source, but least it doesn't have advertises and it doesn't pay anything.. <shaga> multiverse sounds more reasonable <jsgotangco> opera isn't difficult to install really <shaga> for it <shaga> it's not, but it's very common browser for older machines so that's why I thought it.. <shaga> stating firefox takes about 15seconds on this computer and for opera, the time is only under one second <shaga> s/stating/starting <ogra> jsgotangco, does it have a free distribution license for third partys (re: multiverse) ? <jsgotangco> ogra: probably, PC-BSD has a PBI for it <ogra> i dont think youre allowed to redistribute it without explicit permission <jsgotangco> im actually on bsd at the moment and using it <jsgotangco> http://www.pbidir.com/packages.php?code=59 <jsgotangco> so yeah i guess 3rd parties can redistribute it <ogra> License: Commercial <ogra> *shug* <ogra> we probably should just ask them :) <shaga> :) <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> the whole opera thing became free because of google funding <magnon> Opera wouldn't be very appropriate for Ubuntu and at least not Edubuntu <jsgotangco> free as in no pay <magnon> it shows advertising <ogra> magnon, in multiverse <ogra> it doesnt <magnon> since when? <jsgotangco> magnon: it doesn't anymore <ogra> they freed it <magnon> it used to <magnon> ah well <ogra> since the latest release <shaga> that's the day I started using it everywhere <jsgotangco> magnon: similar to the deal with themozilla foundation on firefox <magnon> I never liked Opera that much anyway <ogra> but some people do... and we want to do everything that the user doesnt need to edit his sources.list :) <shaga> I like how opera has "real back" function <ogra> so getting it into multiverse is a goodplan <shaga> it doesn't reload the page and goes right into same spot, loads the page from the cache <shaga> and it's faster(lightweight), those are my main reasons.. <jsgotangco> i actually like it <magnon> ogra: sure, I thought it still had advertising <magnon> but to me it's just another browser that does things a little bit incorrect in another way that firefox does things a little bit incorrect <jsgotangco> i know some devels actually use it <JaneW> jsgotangco: thanks for your hard work on the docs. * JaneW goes to look <ogra> the only thing i dont like about it since the ads are gone it that it uses QT ;) * JaneW is bit distracted - lots going on here (Office Idols etc) <jsgotangco> JaneW: look where? we just uploaded it <JaneW> jsgotangco: not linked in Edubuntu Docs? <jsgotangco> not yet <jsgotangco> ogra: are you going to include ubuntu-docs in the package? <ogra> depends on the size... <jsgotangco> proably a meg <ogra> powerpc is at 704 MB... <jsgotangco> ouch it overflowed <ogra> i'm not sure when it explodes <JaneW> jsgotangco: oic * JaneW will wait then <ogra> not yet <shaga> 800 MB cds rocks :) <jsgotangco> JaneW: give me a day or two <jsgotangco> About Edubuntu is already done <ogra> but its near the edge and i havent looked what i can drop additionally from ppc <JaneW> jsgotangco: oh alright ;) <jsgotangco> we've tested the package today <jsgotangco> fixing the entities are a pain so we're fixing our svn as well <ogra> i probably wont be able to do anything edubuntu related this week anyway... my highest proi task is still xss <ogra> so take your time <jsgotangco> ogra: sure take your time <ogra> heh <jsgotangco> i can have JaneW test the package tommorow <jsgotangco> heh <JaneW> ok <JaneW> it's a bit chaotic here, because Mark is here, and as a local celeb things are a bit manic <ogra> lol <ogra> hey, isnt it his own office ? <ogra> employees should be used to their boss *g* <jsgotangco> heh <jsgotangco> how influential is mark to the overall SA scene? <jsgotangco> VERY? <ogra> sure :) <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes very <JaneW> jsgotangco: he couldn't walk down the street without being stopped <jsgotangco> wow <shaga> :) <JaneW> ogra: it;s not the employees that are the problem is the other people, and all the hype that is here <shaga> so whos he then? <jsgotangco> so he has bodyguards when in SA? <JaneW> jsgotangco: I don;t think so, I think he just keeps a low profile <jsgotangco> JaneW: that's nice to know <jsgotangco> but his face is very familar nowadays so... <JaneW> jsgotangco: I would say that the list of well known SA celebs includes Madiba, Charlize and Mark... <jsgotangco> mmm charlize <JaneW> ogra: I asked about CDs <ogra> adn ? <ogra> and <jsgotangco> any luck? <JaneW> ogra: new answer is we can make a few hundred, and we have to arrange it ourselves <jsgotangco> arrange what? <JaneW> ogra: still don;t know what to do about packaging... <ogra> ok... lets do it post release then <jsgotangco> yeah <JaneW> ogra: yes, let's get through the release and then try to make a plan <JaneW> at least it is something <ogra> a simple paper hardcover should be enough... <ogra> like kubuntu has them <jsgotangco> who did that? amu? <jsgotangco> or riddel <shaga> masochists gui=kde :D <jsgotangco> shaga: shhhh <shaga> ;) <jsgotangco> i remember ogra giving me dagger looks during udu because i was using kde <jsgotangco> hehe <ogra> ;) <shaga> hehe <shaga> not for nothing tho, heh <JaneW> ogra: I haven't actually seen a Kubuntu CD <jsgotangco> its a blue disc with the 3 dragons <JaneW> jsgotangco: is there an image somewhere? <jsgotangco> hmmmm <shaga> dragons, wow! <shaga> they shouldn't be cute tho <jsgotangco> let me find that <jsgotangco> hmmm <jsgotangco> i couldn't find it <jsgotangco> i'll just brb later and have dinner first <Zaheer> hello :) <Zaheer> what version of ubuntu is edubuntu based on? <Zaheer> well the preview at least <ogra> on the preview indeed :) <Zaheer> sorry i see now its 5.10 <Zaheer> my bad <Zaheer> thats breezy right? <shaga> yap <ogra> Zaheer, a daily edubuntu is always identical with a breezy daily... (modulo the edubuntu addons) <Zaheer> cool cause i wanted to DL breezy... would be abit silly if i already have edubuntu :D <ogra> yup <ogra> to install breezy from the CD, do a "server" install and just put ubuntu-desktop on top ;) <Zaheer> is there anything specific that i can help with? <ogra> testing,testing, testing... <ogra> find the evil bugs ;) <Zaheer> :D i found one y/day with the terminal server client. <ogra> one thats not known yet ? <Zaheer> dunno... where do i check? <ogra> bugzilla, look for ltsp <ogra> you could also describe it, i know all known ltsp bugs ;) <Zaheer> ok firstly i installed edubuntu as a workstation,i can terminal serve to windows pc but when i close it down with the little "x" i get an error message. <Zaheer> give me 5 secs to get the extact message for. <ogra> the workstation version has no ltsp functions at all <Zaheer> its not ltsp it the actuall terminal server client that comes with edubuntu. <ogra> err, what else ? <Zaheer> ok the message : "NOT IMPLEMENTED : System pointer message 0xf00" <Zaheer> mouse related i think <ogra> no idea what you are using there ? <ogra> what is that what you use as client ? <Zaheer> i get to the application by clicking on the following menus Applications -> Internet -> Terminal Server Client <ogra> ahhhh <Zaheer> :) <ogra> ok, that has nothing to do with edubuntu <Zaheer> oh ok. <ogra> file a bug in bugzilla agains tsclient so we can get it fixed in ubuntu ;) <Zaheer> okie dokie :D <Zaheer> whats the address to post bugs? <JaneW> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ <Zaheer> thanks <wmaulik> ogra: hi olliver, you here? <wmaulik> this is jelkner writing as one of my students <wmaulik> anybody here? <wmaulik> JaneW: hi Jane, are you here? <JaneW> wmaulik: hello, yes <JaneW> wmaulik: hi Jeff <ogra> wmaulik, soryy, give me a minute... i'm afk for a moment <wmaulik> here is the situation with which i need help <wmaulik> we have encountered a bug in edubuntu <wmaulik> and we wanted to report it <wmaulik> Writesh, the student i am loggin in as, volunteered to report the bug himself <wmaulik> which i thought was great <wmaulik> so he created a launchpad account <JaneW> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ <JaneW> great <wmaulik> we want to use malone <wmaulik> if that is ok <JaneW> think so... <wmaulik> i don't want too many different ways to do things <wmaulik> launchpad is looking better all the time <JaneW> I think they are running in parallel atm <JaneW> nod <wmaulik> i call it "software development for human beings" ;-) <ogra> wmaulik, please use buzilla, malone is only for universe packges <ogra> nobody of the main devs looks in launchpad yet <wmaulik> ogra: when will that change? <wmaulik> it is not the best situation <wmaulik> i want to grow the edubuntu users, testers, etc group <ogra> if malone is ready its lacking a lot of features <wmaulik> and encourage people to report bugs <wmaulik> most new users don't know whether something is in universe or not <wmaulik> and they shouldn't have to <ogra> but i suspect sabdfl will force us to use it for main after release <ogra> everything installed in edubuntu is in main <wmaulik> ok <ogra> only stuff you installed additionally can be from niverse <wmaulik> if Writesh created a launchpad account, can he use bugzilla? <ogra> i'm not sure if they already work together this deep.... try it <wmaulik> ok, i've gotta run <ogra> bye and thanks... <wmaulik> writesh left already to go to his next class <wmaulik> now i've got to teach mine ;-) <ogra> :) <wmaulik> we'll try bugzilla tomorrow <ogra> ok <wmaulik> but i have to say that if it is easy we can to these things <wmaulik> if it is not we can't <wmaulik> thanks! <wmaulik> bye <ogra> then mail me about the bugs <wmaulik> ok, thanks <ogra> so i can forward them to bugzilla to assign them the right people <JaneW> sigh <JaneW> do flint or jelkner ever stay for longer than 10 mins? <Zaheer> highvoltage - why so quiet :) <highvoltage> Zaheer: very busy :) <JaneW> highvoltage: watching idols *duck* <highvoltage> JaneW: i wasn't *really* watching, I just came buy because vicki said we must :) <JaneW> highvoltage: nod, I was also only there for 5 mins or so... <JaneW> highvoltage: it's too cold to stand out there for long <highvoltage> yep. my word i'm tired. i ordered an dsl line from telkom today. took 45 mins. <highvoltage> the wireless connection in my area is just too dodgy. <JaneW> highvoltage: pity, but our ADSL ahs been good, except for the intl problems, but that had nothing to do with ADSL... <highvoltage> i think adsl is the best option locally. they just didn't have it in my area when i moved there (telkom didn't even have phone lines there). <highvoltage> Zaheer: so, how are things? <JaneW> highvoltage: where do you live? in the karoo? ;) <highvoltage> hehe. new area just outside bellville and kuils river (next to bottelary). <JaneW> highvoltage: ok, I got married near there (one of the wine farms) <highvoltage> where do you live at the moment? <JaneW> Rondebosch <Zaheer> cool man, looking forward to sysadmin classes starting ;) <Zaheer> any word on the venue yet? <JaneW> Zaheer: lol, I read that as SysAdmin clashes - I thought there was a battle of the SysAdmins or something ;) <Zaheer> he he :D <highvoltage> Zaheer: douglassanchez@example.org. i'm getting the maps tomorrow, will forward on. <Zaheer> im glad to see there a quite a few cape townians around :) <highvoltage> Zaheer: ah, so you know who i am now ;) <Zaheer> yes i do :D .. you had me worried for a while! <Zaheer> how'd you know it was me tho' or did you take a guess? <Zaheer> orgra : posted the bug in bugzilla, thanks :) <highvoltage> Zaheer: you use telkom adsl, so i know you're local, and the zahedoll kind of gave it away. <Zaheer> aaahhh cunning!!! i didnt even see that. <highvoltage> ok. bye! <Zaheer> anyways guys have a good one! see ya <ogra> hi <gilv> hi <ogra> gilv, so if you got any questions regarding edubuntu feel free to ask anytime :) <JessicaX^> Heya <JessicaX^> Been a while since i was in here <JessicaX^> How is everything <JessicaX^> Like the new logo, btw <JessicaX^> By the way ; are the projects under way.. or still in planning? <shaga> I installed just hoary-server, upgraded to hoary, then added edubuntu-desktop <shaga> smooth as silk ;) <JessicaX^> eh? <shaga> s/second hoary/breezy <shaga> I think they are doing fine with edubuntu <shaga> at least from the looks <JessicaX^> Eh????? <JessicaX^> I didnt say they weren't <JessicaX^> o.O <shaga> you asked how is everything <shaga> I just said that seems fine for them ;) <shaga> don't pick on my words so easily :) <JessicaX^> I wasn't <shaga> hehe <JessicaX^> I was just wondering what the hell you're talking about oOl <JessicaX^> Projects as in <JessicaX^> "what WILL be in edubuntu" <JessicaX^> " What's going to be in Edubuntu?" <shaga> at least gnome-screensaver instead of x-s-s :p <ogra> nooo <shaga> huh <ogra> it was dropped a week ago <JessicaX^> ehh? <JessicaX^> did i say xss? <ogra> (sorry i'm in a meeting) <JessicaX^> *thin air picking* <shaga> I'll just stay quiet :D <JessicaX^> I dont know what the hell you're talkjing about XD <JessicaX^> I said <JessicaX^> "What projects" <JessicaX^> And you're like ; "YA IM USING GNOME-SCREENSAVER" <JessicaX^> o__O <JessicaX^> "Nice Day today eh!" <JessicaX^> "Yeah, i like banana boats" <shaga> *sights* <ogra> JessicaX^, kdeedu, gcompris, schooltool, the new and shiny ltsp classroom server we developed, moodle (hopefully, its currently a bit buggy) <JessicaX^> sounds nice <ogra> coulorful artwork and icons... <JessicaX^> Still using GNOME, right? <ogra> yup <ogra> but with kde bits... <ogra> kdeedu has no counterpart on the gnome side yet <JessicaX^> iono, i tried using kubuntu <JessicaX^> After ubuntu <JessicaX^> and kubuntu ran faster <JessicaX^> o.O <ogra> i never tried kubuntu... <ogra> :) <ogra> but i was told by several people that kde is a lot slower via ltsp... which is our main app... <JessicaX^> Hmm <JessicaX^> Yeah, but iono <ogra> i'll test that for next release <JessicaX^> I think KDE looks more unified.. I dont like Epiphany <ogra> i dont like KDE ;) <JessicaX^> Obviously <JessicaX^> :P <ogra> way to cluttered <JessicaX^> Well, it is out of the box <JessicaX^> But gnome is completely the opposite <JessicaX^> Nice to get up and running, but iono <ogra> gnome is totally out of te box :) <JessicaX^> o_O <ogra> but we could discuss that endless... lets drop it <JessicaX^> I know, i know <ogra> and i have to attend the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting :) <JessicaX^> :P <JessicaX^> you should use TuX :) <JessicaX^> Very sexy indeed <ogra> ?? <JessicaX^> Kernel HTTPd <ogra> yes, but why ? people are familiar with apache :) <magnon> kernelspace httpd makes me shudder <JessicaX^> :D <JessicaX^> Put IIS on there then ;) <JessicaX^> Some schools in UK kiss that <shaga> hehe <JessicaX^> TuX uses Apache as a secondary webserver <magnon> again <magnon> why, when you have apache? <magnon> the whole concept of putting http serving in kernel land is crazy <JessicaX^> Not really <magnon> if you say so. ;) <JessicaX^> Apache is nice, but there are HTTPd's that are faster than it <JessicaX^> Well, i do ;) <JessicaX^> Ask Igno Molnar why he made one <JessicaX^> remember him? :P <JessicaX^> Ingo :/ <magnon> yes. <ogra> did he run it on a ltsp server with 25 thin clients that started openpffice simultaiously ? <JessicaX^> Ingo Molnar has been contributing to Linux kernel development since 1995 with an impressive list of accomplishments. Most recently his O(1) scheduler was merged into the 2.5 development kernel <JessicaX^> Not that i recall <JessicaX^> But that scheduler is uber clever <magnon> just because I love his scheduler doesn't mean that I like kernelspace http-serving <JessicaX^> :P <JessicaX^> Have you used it? <magnon> I tried it a long time ago <magnon> and never touched it again <magnon> it scares me <shaga> :D <JessicaX^> :P <JessicaX^> I love it <shaga> couldn't live without it I assume? ;) <JessicaX^> Not really <JessicaX^> It's good <JessicaX^> but not that good <JessicaX^> Linux yes, that no <shaga> :) <JessicaX^> Hmm, would i be able to make a KDE based version of edubuntu? <JessicaX^> Or a strictly dinge-o-rama ? :/ <JessicaX^> Also magnon <JessicaX^> http://slashdot.org/articles/00/07/20/1440204.shtml <JessicaX^> Enjoy :) <shaga> you are a fan or something? <shaga> :D <JessicaX^> I like clever things :) <shaga> hehe <shaga> perhaps too clever? ;) <JessicaX^> Not really <JessicaX^> I modify everything <JessicaX^> To exactly how i like it <shaga> agreed <JessicaX^> And then, once i've played, i look at what everyone else wants, strike a compromise, make it, sell and be happy <magnon> it's really not that clever. <magnon> it's putting something in kernel-land that SHOULD NOT be there <magnon> better when it works pretty close to that from the start :P <JessicaX^> Rofl <JessicaX^> Nah <JessicaX^> Kernel land :P <shaga> I agree with magnon about kernel land <shaga> :p <JessicaX^> It handles file transfers anyway, why should it be coupled with that which handles files <shaga> why to implement? <shaga> I don't see any reasons <JessicaX^> I agree with the creator, tbh <JessicaX^> " The biggest advantage i see is to have encapsulation, security and performance available to dynamic web applications *at the same time*" <magnon> security + kernel land just doesn't fit normal security theory for me <JessicaX^> :P <shaga> :D <JessicaX^> So, the kernel is insecure? <shaga> I love that "kernel land" <shaga> by browsing files on the web through kernel he meant I think <JessicaX^> Not really <shaga> it's too close to the core <JessicaX^> HTTPd isnt about browsing <shaga> damned, not too close, it's in the core <shaga> nope, not really.. but you got my point I assume? <JessicaX^> Yeah <magnon> JessicaX^: it just means that if there first is a security breach, it's more fatal <JessicaX^> But then again, if you got breached with apache running as root, then you'd have the same level of problems <JessicaX^> The worst they can do is really lock you out or format everything <magnon> then why not run a lightweight http server in user land? :) <shaga> fatal.. I'd call it devastating <shaga> :p <JessicaX^> :P <JessicaX^> Like i say <JessicaX^> If you code securely <magnon> ...there will always be a bug. <JessicaX^> So, the same of edubuntu, then <JessicaX^> Or is that exempt of these criticisms <JessicaX^> ? <shaga> yeah, everybody always try to code securely.. but even in the mouse cursor in windows, there is bug with security flaws :D <JessicaX^> You're using windows as an example o.O <shaga> I just used as an example for a bug, it's good base for flaws :D <JessicaX^> lol Usually, it's like "even the best can have problems" <JessicaX^> Not <JessicaX^> "windows has problems" <JessicaX^> :P <shaga> hehe, yeah <JessicaX^> Well, i'm building a distro up right now <JessicaX^> :/ <shaga> I use most extraordinary ways to use examples <shaga> people are always laughing at me about it :) <JessicaX^> Heh <JessicaX^> I never use windows as a good example <shaga> I used as a worst <JessicaX^> Also - does edubuntu have a page for schools perhaps wanting to change to Linux? eg - benefits? <JessicaX^> If not, i could make one, i used to have to do presentations along the same lines all the time <ogra> JessicaX^, we have a wiki, feel free to make a page :) <JessicaX^> err <JessicaX^> I'll type it as a document <magnon> ogra: do we have anything _else_ than a wiki? ;)O <ogra> we'll have a website before release... <JessicaX^> Well, i could make a website for you <JessicaX^> I'm not brilliant with designs, but i "inspire" myself off template sites ;) <ogra> and a plone cms was planned, but i'm not sure highvoltage has come around to do it in time <JessicaX^> Or with HTML or CSS o.O <JessicaX^> I can make it in Drupal <ogra> *shudder <magnon> eek <JessicaX^> Oh geezus <ogra> i'd like to avoid php <magnon> I think ubuntu has some good infrastructure already <JessicaX^> You don't like drupal? :/ <JessicaX^> rofl isnt Moodle PHP <JessicaX^> ;) <ogra> i dont like php <JessicaX^> you don't like much <JessicaX^> :/ <magnon> ogra: as long as it's php5, I'd be fine <ogra> i dont use moodle, i just listened to our users ;) <JessicaX^> It is php5 <JessicaX^> ogra <JessicaX^> Thank geebus for that <JessicaX^> Otherwise it' <magnon> it isn't started up as php5 <JessicaX^> it would probably be just a non-graphical boot <JessicaX^> :/ <ogra> and i build a distro, i#m not the guy who does the web stuff... only a poor developer builing a CD here :) <JessicaX^> I like skirts, and shopping, but it doesnt mean everyone else does <JessicaX^> :P * ogra likes skirts... if he doesnt need to wear them ;) <JessicaX^> I wear them =) <shaga> I love skirts on girls as well <JessicaX^> but, like i say <magnon> pff, girls are overrated <ogra> lol * magnon should start running <shaga> time for some pizza and the 4400 episode <JessicaX^> I like pink and girly stuff, and there's stuff i know i like, but it doesnt mean everyone else will love them because i do <shaga> :D <shaga> pink <shaga> she said pink <JessicaX^> hint hint hint <magnon> and that does NOT mean edubuntu should have a default pink theme <shaga> anyway, off I go :) <JessicaX^> Didnt say it should <ogra> JessicaX^, we have a server infrastructure where everything is python based already... everything else generates extra effort... <JessicaX^> Go with the flow of the people ;) <JessicaX^> Just saying, every school i spoke to - chose KDE <ogra> adding php stuff would mean we'd need extra servers etc <JessicaX^> Not really, i would have hosted it <JessicaX^> But i cant be bothered now you've ranted :P <ogra> we'd like to hots it in our datacenter :) <JessicaX^> Congrats <ogra> and the decision for gnome was not my personal decision we had a 4 day summit with lots of people and discussed apps and stuff to an end <magnon> gnome was a very wise decision <JessicaX^> :) <JessicaX^> Sure sure <magnon> if it was KDE I'd be using fc or even nld and still be unhappy <ogra> its simply that the support in ubuntu for gnome is bigger, we have a lot more developers wotrking on gnome stuff and only one for kde <JessicaX^> Well, thats fair enough <ogra> edubuntu is 90% ubuntu... <JessicaX^> But, when i worked at doing this kinda thing for money <ogra> i cant do everything alone ;) <JessicaX^> A lot of the schools we spoke to said KDE over Gnome, or other WM's <ogra> the demand for a "like ubuntu" system in africa and southamerica is very high... that includes gnome <JessicaX^> hm <magnon> JessicaX^: Oh, easy problem. "This is ubuntu, like it?" "yes" "ok." <linescanner> We have the same here in the UK. Most we have shown prefer KDE <JessicaX^> "this is ubuntu like it.. er.. well, actually" "tough shit" <JessicaX^> linescanner: I worked in the UK with it <JessicaX^> Even the LEA we spoke to said KDE just looked a lot cleaner than Gnome, and fluxbox <magnon> if you say "gnome is simple and streamlined, whereas kde has too much cruft", they'd choose gnome <ogra> its no probem to install kde in edubuntu its just not the default install... <JessicaX^> Not really <magnon> so it's a matter of how you say it :P <JessicaX^> We didnt force KDE <linescanner> Which LEA ? <JessicaX^> Thats just absolutely the most idiotic thing possible <JessicaX^> The North Yorkshire, and the Cheshire <linescanner> Did you get anywhere with them ? <magnon> I force GNOME and can't see anything wrong with it <magnon> since it's what I support. :P <JessicaX^> Forcing is retarded <magnon> no <JessicaX^> I didnt force, i let them choose <ogra> we too <magnon> choosing a stable system that you can support is nonretarded <magnon> giving too many options which creates more work for _you_ in the end, is retarded. <JessicaX^> You dont go to a school and say YOU HAVE TO HAVE UBUNTU or we wont support you <ogra> and since the summit was in london, there were a lot british teachers :) <JessicaX^> Like it or not , it's similar to what Microsoft does <magnon> well, actually, we do <JessicaX^> Not really <JessicaX^> Because we could work with either <magnon> it's not, because they can always go wherever they want <JessicaX^> I didnt want to force them <magnon> I couldn't <magnon> I know jack about KDE <JessicaX^> because it's their choice <JessicaX^> If they didnt want it, i didnt say "oh well, up yours" <JessicaX^> or "Oh, not KDE?? GRRR" <magnon> I would. :D <JessicaX^> Then you're an idiot <magnon> thanks <JessicaX^> With Schools, you have to give choice <magnon> why? <magnon> why more choice to them than to anyone else? <JessicaX^> Otherwise they just think you're trying to shove it down their throats <linescanner> The desktop aint the issue though it is what you do with it <magnon> because THEY should sacrifice support over others? <JessicaX^> magnon <ogra> JessicaX^, thast exactly what we did... we invited interested eachers of schools wanting to adopt edubuntu what ever it should be and followed their choices <magnon> are businesses more important? <JessicaX^> magnon <JessicaX^> What the hell are you talking about <JessicaX^> i'm on about the look and feel <JessicaX^> We had 4 laptops <JessicaX^> And we let them and CHILDREN <JessicaX^> from ages of 5 - 16 <JessicaX^> Look around them <magnon> JessicaX^: that if you run support, you need to go with a system and support it the way YOU can, if you don't, you're going to use more resources on it, and that heightens prices. <JessicaX^> On gnome, even the LEA said as default it looks too dark <JessicaX^> well, like said <JessicaX^> I'd help with a KDE port of it <linescanner> JessicaX you working in schools still ? <JessicaX^> I think choice is important, otherwise we'd all be using windows <JessicaX^> linescanner, no i left <JessicaX^> But, i'm helping a friend re-start the business <magnon> ah well, my business is external of schools and I work with both schools and SMBs <magnon> so, no choice. <magnon> the choice is "find another vendor", which is entirely their choice, of course. <JessicaX^> But like i said, when we spoke with a phsychology lecturer <JessicaX^> And other related professionals <linescanner> JessicaX you seen what we do at Cutter ? <JessicaX^> they said about colour schemes, and how crucial they are to children of young ages <JessicaX^> Cutter? <linescanner> www.cutterproject.co.uk <JessicaX^> I heard of that <ogra> JessicaX^, have you even seen edubuntus gnome desktop yet ? <linescanner> Linux thin client for schools <JessicaX^> There are no Screenshots from what i can see <ogra> nope <ogra> install it ;) <ogra> help testing ;) <JessicaX^> Err <ogra> we'll release screenshots before release <linescanner> Ogra: you get anywhere with the bootig issue ? <linescanner> booting even <ogra> linescanner, the mptscsi stuff ? <linescanner> no the thins looping at nfs <JessicaX^> Hehe, suse <ogra> linescanner, nope, some people are trying to track it now.... <JessicaX^> Ahh, linescanner <JessicaX^> Good work on the cutter project <JessicaX^> :)_ <linescanner> Thanks <JessicaX^> I watch Working lunch sometimes <JessicaX^> :) <linescanner> Cool. The Deputy head there is turning into a media star :) <JessicaX^> downloading the coverage of it now :D <linescanner> we are looking for more people to push it <JessicaX^> I'd be happy to help :) <linescanner> drop me an email <JessicaX^> Sure <JessicaX^> i'd need the email :P <linescanner> douglassanchez@example.org <JessicaX^> :) Okay, will do <linescanner> my priv is blocked at the mo <JessicaX^> Ah, righty <JessicaX^> Unregistred user? <linescanner> yeah, keep meaning to sort it out <JessicaX^> lol <linescanner> :) <JessicaX^> Can't wait to watch this :) <JessicaX^> I love it when linux gets mentioned on television <linescanner> ogra: re mptscsi stuff I need to put some time aside this week to get some feed back to you guys <linescanner> JessicaX :) <JessicaX^> hm? :> <ogra> linescanner, try to get jbailey directly, we have other sun fire users, would be nice if that could be solved <JessicaX^> Holy mackkarel <JessicaX^> mackarel <JessicaX^> 4000+ for Windows <JessicaX^> Geebus <rejden> *eeek* #edubuntu 2005-10-03 <linescanner> ogra no probs, I have been really busy I will get it done this week
{'channel': 'edubuntu', 'month': 10}