#launchpad 2005-02-11 <kiko> hey spiv <kiko> how's it going? <spiv> kiko: Hey. Pretty good. <kiko> but pretty laggy. <spiv> Once I start waking up ;) <spiv> :) <kiko> any news on the sqlobject cache scare? :) <spiv> carlos's issue? <kiko> yes. or rather, YOUR issue. :) <spiv> I meant the one he encountered, rather than owned ;) <kiko> I was being cheeky <spiv> It's real problem, but I don't know what the solution is yet. <spiv> I know enough about it to write a test case for it. <spiv> There's another problem I'm aware of that may be related. <kiko> what does the good ian bicking say of it? <spiv> Overall, there's too many layers involved. SQLObject does connection pooling and object caching, sqlos hacks those, we hack those a little bit more... <kiko> it's not necessarily in the sqlobject layer, then? <kiko> ugh <spiv> My gut feeling is it should be about 5x simpler. <kiko> my gut feeling is that any tectonic movements there are going to delay us significantly. <spiv> Well, I think SQLObject's abstractions for connection management are partly to blame, in a design sense.... <spiv> because that means that sqlos needs to build its own stuff, rather than work with SQLObject. <spiv> But I agree. <spiv> I don't want to do open-heart surgery on this stuff, because that will take time. <kiko> that's what I feel as well <kiko> but we need to get this resolved once and for all <kiko> so how about you invest some serious hours into getting down into understanding the issues <kiko> get some testcases going <spiv> I wish I could be confident that fixing these latest issues will be "once and for all"... it's been whack-a-mole so far. <kiko> if I can help in any way, perhaps waving sidnei into the rink if it feels good to you <kiko> yes. <kiko> is nobody else using sqlos/sqlobject and the latest set of hacks on top of it? <spiv> Well, certainly no-one else is using sqlos + initZopeless (i.e. the same SQLObject classes inside and outside of Zope). <kiko> is that where the problem comes from? <kiko> changes being done "behind zope's back"? <kiko> which happens because of the po importd? <spiv> More generally, changes being done behind the back of SQLObject in a particular process. <kiko> can you elaborate in 3 lines? <spiv> Actually, I'm not certain that that's what carlos's problem is, I want to investigate to be sure. <spiv> But ddaa has hit that with importd, I've hacked around it for now. <kiko> by forcing a cache refresh at critical points? <spiv> So, for some reason doing a commit (or an abort) via the proper high-level mechanisms, at least in initZopeless, isn't sufficient to make db updates from other processes visible. <ddaa> kiko: example: when I reload buildbot, I abort the current transaction and do a select() in sourcesource to catch changes made from lauchpad. <ddaa> It used to work. <spiv> In that case, it appears that it's not the cache, but the actual connection objects themselves that need resetting. <ddaa> I seriously suspect that's a regression which was introduced by the sqlos commit/abort fix. <spiv> (there's no cache issues -- these objects are new, and so aren't in the cache yet) <kiko> connection cache? <ddaa> But I was not able to test that theory. <ddaa> (lack of time) <spiv> carlos's problem seems to be slightly different, but I think it may be related, at least in a design sense. <spiv> In his case, clearing the cache is sufficient, no need to muck about with the actual connections. <spiv> kiko: Btw, thanks for asking about this. Explaining things out-loud does help clarify my own thoughts :) <kiko> talking is good. <kiko> so tell me more about ddaa's issue. <kiko> so it doesn't seem to be the object cache, but the connection isn't seeing an updated view of the database? <spiv> Correct. <ddaa> yup <ddaa> spiv: in case you missed that, _it used to work_ <spiv> The workaround is to reach behind sqlobject's back, get the actual low-level psycopg connection object, and to a .rollback and a .begin on it. <spiv> ddaa: I saw :) <stub> Would this be because a new transaction is being started as soon as the last one is committed, and transaction isolation not letting you see DB changes after that occurs? <spiv> stub: That's my current hypothesis, yes. <stub> spiv: Do you have a plan to progress, or do you want mine? * ddaa --> sleep <spiv> stub: I've already heard yours, I think? Close/re-open the connections, let psycopg's connection pooling take care of it. I like that plan. <stub> Thats pretty much it. SQLOS's connection descriptor will probably even take care of reopening the connection for you. <spiv> Right. <stub> Was there any *reason* the librarian refuses to store the same file with the same filename but different mime-types? Or is that just the way it happened? <kiko> it's at least interesting <spiv> It's currently just the way it happened, mainly. <spiv> The minor advantage is that a file content id + filename is sufficient to know the mime type. <spiv> Which makes the URLs slightly simpler. <stub> Hmm.... we should only ever need to use filealiases though. I'll add a low priority bug on this - the use case is where somebody uploads a file with the wrong mime type and tries to correct this situation by uploading again. <spiv> Hmm, yeah. <kiko> they'd need to use a new ID here <spiv> I've suspected it was a bad restriction, but I couldn't think of a use-case, so called YAGNI on myself before fixing it. <spiv> But yeah, that might happen. <stub> kiko: Indeed. The upload should work and we get a new filealias pointing to the same filecontent, just like they tried to upload it using a different filename. <kiko> should we nuke the original filecontent? <spiv> No. <stub> kiko: filecontent is readonly except for garbage collection (in the future) <stub> erm... writeonce <spiv> The filecontent is independent of names and mime-types (it's just a sequence of bytes). <kiko> I see. <spiv> And uploading the same content twice only writes it once -- the librarian catches dupes. <kiko> indeed. <kiko> sounds like the perfect archival mechanism -- the only thing it doesn't help us with is mirroring. <spiv> (properly -- it actually checks the bytes, not just the SHA digests ;) <kiko> the risk of a clash is that bad? <stub> kiko: It will only take a minor extension to support mirroring, and the only code changes need to be done to the librarian <kiko> the mirrors need to run the librarian as well, however, I imagine? <spiv> kiko: Probably not, but it wasn't significantly harder to be sure. <kiko> so you run a real diff? <stub> kiko: I listened to them too much in Oxford and believed that the minute chance of a clash worth worrying about. I have since done some more reading and match and believe that it really isn't worth doing a byte-by-byte :-) Future optimization - it is running fine atm. <kiko> heh. a sha-clash would be a confusing bug to follow though :) <stub> kiko: No - any mirror. <kiko> stub, and how would the downloader get the right file? or would the mirrors be structured with symlinks? or is it yet something more obvious? <stub> kiko: Yeah - but it would make us famous since we would be the first people to ever find one in the decade the hash has been around (and even more so since we would probably store the MD5 as well, and to clash we would have to dupe both) <spiv> stub: I believe the benefits of the optimisation wouldn't be worth worrying about either ;) <stub> kiko: We add another table, called mirroredcontents or such. We have a process that checks mirrors, checks the librarian, and adds entries to this table. <kiko> stub, so far so good. when somebody comes to download? <stub> kiko: To get a URL, launchpad et. al. ask the librian for a URL. So all the logic can be embedded there. <kiko> hummm <stub> kiko: So the librarian might just give a URL to a load balancer/mirror selecter server. Or does a GEOIP and gives the URL direct to the mirror. Or whatever. We can even have rules like 'only mirror for files > X bytes' or 'check this cookie for further instructions' <kiko> so the end-user would get a URL to somewhere else. my question is if the somewhere else would have those files with their original filenames? <kiko> stub, which means we would probably have to duplicate files with same content and different IDs (or use symlinks) <stub> kiko: The files would have to be served with the same filename and same mime-type. This also QA's our mirrors. <stub> (we could relax that rule if we want, but I like it) <kiko> indeed. <stub> The only files that might have multiple mime-types are the pissy little ones we don't need to worry about mirroring (text/plain, text/xml, application/xml) * stub drives wife to the local library * stub is back <kiko> great! <kiko> stub, so you'll be going alone to SA? <stub> kiko: Yes. Kirsten is trying to stop herself getting distracted from the Great Work. <kiko> smart girl she is. <kiko> there's only so much field work that can be absorbed in a lifetime -- ask me one day. <kiko> o/' you spin me round round baby round round o/ <stub> I think making product names unique will bite us :-( I'm just creating some products in dogfood and realizing that they are all pretty generic names, which would be just fine if (project, product) was the key. #launchpad 2005-02-13 <__tim> Hi. Someone set up a rosetta translation effort/project for one of my programs. Now I'd like to grab some of the translation updates as .po files. This didn't require authentication or a user account last time I used it, but now does. So I try to sign up (join) and get my e-mail. However, the link sent just leads me to a 'this part of launchpad isn't ready yet' page <carlos> __tim: which URL did you got? <__tim> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/foaf/token/0sKv4G6vjGtjxxxxxxxx <carlos> ok <carlos> just a minute <__tim> don't ask me why I blanked out the end, I don't really know myself ;) <carlos> __tim: don't worry, that's enough <carlos> __tim: could you create your account from http://www.ubuntulinux.org/join_form? <carlos> the account is the same <carlos> we are just adding that feature to launchpad and it's not completely ready atm <__tim> I'll try, thanks <__tim> btw, just some things I've come across so far with rosetta <__tim> there's a special msgid string "translator-credits", which should be filled with the names of the contributors to the translation separated by a newline automatically <__tim> for about dialogs etc. <__tim> many translators seem to just translate the string into their language instead of putting their name there <__tim> and it's a pain if I have to edit the .po file every time to edit and add that info, if it could just as well be handled automatically by rosetta <carlos> __tim: hmm, it's an interesting feature to add to Rosetta <daf> good point <carlos> __tim: could you file a bug report about ramirezanna@example.org/malone? <__tim> sure <daf> specifically, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/products/rosetta :) <__tim> I'll file the others there as well then ;) <daf> sure, go ahead :) <daf> that's what it's for, after all <__tim> didn't know where to look <daf> no worrie <daf> * worries <carlos> __tim: also, there is a #rosetta channel in case you want to talk with other users <__tim> carlos: thanks <__tim> I'm interested in rosetta mainly as a developer using the rosetta output, not so much as a translator to be honest :) <carlos> __tim: :-) <lifeless> daf: do we have download-a-tarball-of-po's yet ? <daf> I think that might just be in production now <daf> I need to add links to it <lifeless> whats the URL ? <daf> curl https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta/products/foo/bar/+tar-export <daf> IIRC * __tim is not sure whether "Report Bug on Upstream Product" is a good text to present to Joe and Jane Average user when filing a new bug --- do they really know or need to know what 'upstream' means? <daf> hmm, I wonder if Brad is around <daf> bradb: ping <daf> still a bit early for Canada <daf> but if he's around later, I'm sure he'll be happy to discuss Malone with you <carlos> __tim: I think it's that way because malone also supports to file bugs against distribution packages <__tim> ah <carlos> so it's a way to say: The bug is about that package from Ubuntu, Debian, RedHat, etc.. or it's a problem of upstream <lifeless> daf: yes it works, but its very slow <carlos> lifeless: it's normal, until we get fixed the stream feature so we can start giving you the file while we are still creating it <lifeless> even so, its still very slow ;0 <spiv> How slow is slow? <carlos> lifeless: the .po files are created when you request them, as I said, it's normal <spiv> 10 seconds? a minute? several minutes? <lifeless> spiv: ~ 5 minutes before the download started. <spiv> Ouch. <spiv> That's going to be a problem. <carlos> as I said, it's normal <lifeless> its a 3mb tar <carlos> not good, but normal <spiv> We only need four people doing that at once, and launchpad won't have any spare threads for servicing other requests for 5 minutes :) <__tim> thanks again for the help <lifeless> and most folk are not as patient with a browser as I . <daf> incremental tar generation is blocking on a bug in Zope's HTTPResponse <dc|out> SteveA: just out of curiosity, you guys are using slqos/sqlobject? <SteveA> yes <dreamcatcher> amazing. i suppose you're keeping a private copy, as i havent seen much patches <SteveA> i'll hassle the guys to send patches <SteveA> i think we've had some stuff accepted in sqlos <dreamcatcher> i've checked in one or two patches, there may be another one or two on the tracker <dreamcatcher> i remember now, i was waiting for your changes to z3 to fire a 'start transaction' event. did you ever get around to do that? <SteveA> not yet <SteveA> still using a kludge in that code <dreamcatcher> hey salty <lifeless> bradb: is launchpad down for you ? <bradb> lifeless: it appears that it may be, yeah. what happened? it was fine a short while ago. <lifeless> I edited a preference. <lifeless> should be back now. <lifeless> looks like my usercode triggers a big honking bug. <lifeless> *fuck* <lifeless> oh, here it goes again. <lifeless> gnar <lifeless> daf: ping <daf> pong <lifeless> daf: when I add latin to my lp preferences, the entire system hangs <daf> ooh <lifeless> bradb: have I killed it again? <lifeless> I think I have <daf> hmm, I can't reproduce it locally <bradb> lifeless: seems to be dead, yeah <bradb> daf: does this hit foaf at all? <lifeless> bradb: i can still kill it by editing a bug as well. <lifeless> I think its *me* <daf> you must be special <bradb> lifeless: yeah, it may be that same, scary problem. <lifeless> dude, this is really critical, I *cannot* use malone at all at the moment,. <lifeless> I presume its not your-fault but its pretty frustrating <bradb> lifeless: indeed, i understand the severity of this. it's really difficult to debug without privileged access to production. maybe stub can take a crack at it when he gets here (which is presumably quite soon) <daf> bradb: I don't think the language view code touches any FOAF stuff, no <lifeless> yah, I'm still sick today, but I'll work with stub and see if we can get a handle on it. <daf> there are two forms on that page, though, and the other one touches other attributes of Person <bradb> daf: lifeless was able to swallow up launchpad in this way with Malone too. based on what we've currently see about how this behaviour can be made to happen, it's still pretty confusing. <daf> fun fun! <bradb> lifeless: FWIW, i just added Latin to "My languages" and saved on that screen. No hangage. <lifeless> BWAH. <lifeless> ok, you can do the bazaar latin translation then ;) <bradb> er! <bradb> :P <lifeless> daf: so how is the welsh one coming ? <lifeless> and do you have klingon in rosetta ? <daf> sorry, dude, it's not high on my list <daf> once I'm done with APT, dpkg and GNOME 2.10, I might give it some time <daf> klingon, hmm <daf> we should do <daf> it has an ISO code, after all <lifeless> bah, how many people use gnome <lifeless> I mean, really?! #launchpad 2005-02-14 <dreamcatcher> kikones <kiko> how goes it dc <dreamcatcher> boring afternoon, fighting a hanging zope <dreamcatcher> are you back from whatever place you were last week? *g* <kiko> yeah #launchpad 2005-02-15 <lifeless> I read 'kikones as cojones' ewww. <kiko-afk> dude <kiko-afk> that was horrible <lifeless> I know #launchpad 2005-02-16 <mauriz> hi there <mauriz> does the launchpad actually work? <mauriz> i can't register #launchpad 2005-02-17 <alumik> hi <alumik> i can't activate my account on the launchpad, is it offline or something? #launchpad 2005-02-18 * #launchpad [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup <alumik> hello <alumik> any launchpad admin here? <alumik> i have a problem with the registration <spiv> I work on launchpad, but I'm not an admin. <spiv> Hmm, I can probably help with that though :) <alumik> ok <spiv> Use the Join link at http://www.ubuntu.com/, it's the same account database. <alumik> i have received the mail to activate the account <spiv> Yeah, known issue :( <alumik> ah, ok :) <spiv> Will be fixed soon, I hope. <alumik> so, there is no way to register right now? <spiv> Register at http://www.ubuntu.com/ <alumik> ok, thanks <spiv> The account you make there will also be a launchpad account. <kiko> bradb! <bradb> yo! <kiko> bradb, no neuros luck -- no phone luck with them either? <bradb> haven't phoned yet dude <bradb> i can only do three things at once :P * bradb checks in subscripition fixes <kiko> thanks #launchpad 2005-02-19 <lifeless> bradb: so how is our malone 'help!' list coming ? <bradb> lifeless: the UI work is starting to start. mpt sent me the HTML of the first of the pages we designed. the timeline says that by around mid-march most of our UI-fu will be integrated, and I just got someone else hired today to work with me on Malone (subject to contractual details getting sorted out.) <bradb> i'm also trying to find an HTML/JS guy to do some XML-RPC super-fu for us too, which will make our search widgets seem like something out of a sci-fi novel <bradb> we have fallback strategies on the search widgets of course, i.e. we discussed what kind of widget would be rendered for you based on what your browser is capable of supporting. in the best case, you get something like google suggest; in the worst case, you have to post a form. <bradb> i have a feeling that much of my time in cape town will be spent discussing the work mpt, kiko and I did in montreal, to get Mark's feedback on what he thinks of our ideas about making the UI really easy-to-use. * kiko_zzz yawns <kiko> we just _have_ to wake up at some point <mdz> kiko: morning <kiko> morning mdz * kiko yawns <mdz> kiko: have you seen The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou? <kiko> hmmmm. No, I haven't. <kiko> IMDB? <kiko> mdz, is it the masterpiece it's said to be? <mdz> kiko: I don't know that I would go that far, but it was a good film <mdz> kiko: the soundtrack features someone named Seu Jorge who sings David Bowie tracks in Portuguese <kiko> that's crazy <kiko> mdz, no sleep tonight, then? <mdz> kiko: sleep XOR community council meeting * kiko frowns <kiko> bradb, give me neuros love <carlos> kiko-afk: you are not at #launchpad-dev... <carlos> I thought you were not online :-P <kiko-afk> I'm xchat-confused. Let me sort that out <JD_> afternoon <Kinnison> Hello <JD> argh <Kinnison> What can we do for you? <JD> apart from stopping OPN from sucking? erm just tried to join launchpad, got an email <JD> the link got redirected to notready.u.c <JD> I suspect that isn't intended <Kinnison> Impressive <Kinnison> SteveA: Know anything about that? <salgado> JD, you can create an account on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/login_form <daf> JD: make sure you're using https <JD> daf: the llink was https <daf> oh, is this the FOAF thing? <JD> yes <salgado> JD, it will be valid in launchpad <daf> (hi JD) <JD> daf: :) <daf> JD: coming to FOSDEM? <JD> daf: of course <daf> groovy * daf is a FOSDEM virgin * carlos is still thinking about attend FOSDEM or not... <daf> better decide soon :) <JD> daf: the talks are where you recover from your hangover <daf> heh <JD> so is my url completely useless then? <carlos> JD: atm, yes <JD> hmm I just tried to register with the url salgado gave me and got this <JD> his site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The errors were: <JD> Error Type <JD> KeyError <JD> Error Value <JD> 'id' <daf> nice :) <JD> said I'd been registered though <JD> except I've not had an email or anything <JD> so I am not registered at all <JD> :'( <JD> I only wanted to help <JD> I know when I'm not wanted * JD cries in the corner <carlos> JD: could you try to recover your account from the ubuntu's website? <JD> carlos: k <carlos> JD: use the forgotten password feature <JD> it says I'm not there <carlos> and you are not able to create a new account? <carlos> :-? <JD> nope I get the same error about KeyError <JD> and launchpad url doesn't work <carlos> launchpad's url is normal that does not work <carlos> don't worry <carlos> but the ubuntu's website should work... <JD> would it not work because I already tried to join launchpad? <carlos> JD: it should not be the problem <salgado> JD, no, it's not possible <JD> do you want my email address to check logs? <salgado> JD, I gave you the wrong url, I think. use the "Join" link on ubuntulinux.org <JD> salgado: you did but I figured it out <salgado> JD, you entered your email address on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/join_form and got a page with a "KeyError" message? <JD> yes <JD> name and email <salgado> weird. I just did that and it worked for me <JD> I can try again if you want <JD> same error <carlos> JD: which email address are you using? <JD> ramirezanna@example.org <carlos> hmm <carlos> could you send me (directly) all your data so I could try to create your account? <carlos> directly == /msg <carlos> JD: same problem here, and it's not your fault :-) <JD> carlos: I should bloody hope not :P <JD> :) <carlos> JD: The bug is reported, will be back to you as soon as it's fixed. Sorry for any problem it could cause you. <JD> carlos: hhahahaha :) <carlos> sorry, I'm tired, I suppose you understand it as I wrote it :-P <JD> carlos: yeah :) #launchpad 2005-02-20 <kiko> hey daf? <daf> hey kiko <kiko> oh bogus <kiko> one sec <Kinnison> daf: You're up early? <daf> I am <SteveA_> hello daf <daf> hi SteveA * netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net #launchpad 2005-02-21 <lifeless> uhm guys. <lifeless> it looks like the activation email links are filtered to the 'not ready yet' page - elmo ? <spiv> lifeless: Yes, known problem. Register at http://www.ubuntu.com/ instead. #launchpad 2005-02-23 <bcd> hello <bcd> I'd like to register to Rosetta but it seems impossible, could I get help please ? <bcd> So, I will try later #launchpad 2005-02-24 <JovianJake> hi <JovianJake> I was trying to register in launchpad in order to contribute with a translation, but I get an error message when I follow the link that arrives to my mail <JovianJake> is there any other way to register? <JovianJake> I suppose there must be, as there are users already <bob2> register on ubuntu.com * ..[topic/#launchpad:bob2] : Welcome to the lunch-pad. This is the place for discussion with launchpad users and developers. || Register for your account on www.ubuntu.com (same account for both sites) <bcd> hello #launchpad 2005-02-27 <Hmzaniac> mornin' people... <Hmzaniac> i just registred at launchpad, but when i click the validation link in my mail, i get a message that that part of launchpad isn't working yet. <Hmzaniac> what's up with that? <SteveA> Hmzaniac: that's not good. I'll see if i can find out what's up. <SteveA> Hmzaniac: thanks for letting us know! <Hmzaniac> i already got it by registring through www.ubuntu.com <Hmzaniac> but it's still a bit odd for new users. <SteveA> sure is <Kinnison> Morning guys <Hmzaniac> morning <salgado> yo kiko <lifeless> SteveA: thats the production launchpad offering a link to foaf <GenghisKhan> hi all <GenghisKhan> i am trying to register in launchpad to send a translation <GenghisKhan> but when i click in the e-mail i receive <GenghisKhan> it says that that part of launchpad isn't ready yet <salgado> GenghisKhan, right now, you must register on www.ubuntu.com. the account you create there will be valid in launchpad too <GenghisKhan> ok <GenghisKhan> going to create it now, thanks <GenghisKhan> hello, i'm trying to translate in rosetta <GenghisKhan> i have the po file in my computer because i have translated wordpress on my own <GenghisKhan> how can i upload it? <GenghisKhan> hello <GenghisKhan> anyone knows how to upload a po translation into rosetta <GenghisKhan> ? #launchpad 2006-02-01 <jordi> hmm <kiko> jordi? <kiko> no answer to my email? <kiko> I HATE YOU <jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/29814 <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29814 in rosetta: "Oops when removing elements from the import queue" [Normal,Unconfirmed] <jordi> this is teh suck <jordi> kiko: your email <jordi> I got no kiko email <kiko> asking for FAQ fodder <jordi> oh. I did think about it while running. <jordi> Do you have more suggestions? <kiko> that's good. <kiko> running -- good. <kiko> FAQ suggestions? even better. <kiko> well, I can pull some out of my hat tomorrow <jordi> (the bad news is that the teammates were very slowly incrementing the pace, so I was suffering enough not to be able to think much :) <jordi> so no <jordi> ok <jordi> let's talk about it. <jordi> Qestions from the Rosetta FAQ that can be adapted <jordi> What happens if Rosetta closes? Will the translations be lost? <jordi> What happens if Launchpad, being non-free stuff, closes? <jordi> Maybe a silly "What's with the launchpad name?" (someone added this one to the RosettaFAQ) <jordi> Other Launchpad questions <jordi> What's the difference between a 'Team Admin', 'Team Member' and a 'Non-Member'? <jordi> Is the Rosetta code updated often? <jordi> these two are already answered in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ <jordi> Malone: why Yet Another Bugtracker? -> explain what malone offers besides regular tracking abilities? <kiko> wow, this is all great! <jordi> is it? :) <kiko> yes <jordi> more <jordi> What does the launchpad offer? <kiko> more! <jordi> --> list of names with a very brief explanation of every component <jordi> ie Rosetta is our translation portal <LarstiQ> Do I need a translation team? <kiko> good one LarstiQ <jordi> do they? :) <jordi> kiko: so do we want to include some Rosetta stff in here, or link to the Rosetta FAQ? <kiko> jordi, it's your option! <jordi> well, dunno <jordi> what's the url for this again? lp.net/faq? <jordi> I wonder if that's pollution. do we plan to do something like /doc/*? <jordi> My idea for the docs I want to write is to stick them somewhere in the site, more than the wiki <jordi> kiko: "Can I add my KikoLinux distro to Soyuz?" <kiko> well, I think the faq is a first step in this direction. <jordi> nod <jordi> "I read about all of this COCK SIGNING PROCESS. What kind of rock stars are you?" <jordi> ok, maybe not that one <kiko> maybe not <kiko> jordi, can you collect those items and reply to my email? <kiko> I'm fucking collapsing <jordi> I never got such a mail <jordi> I got your request on IRC :) <jordi> kiko: do you have the log for this covnersation, or should I paste? <kiko> jordi, the launchpad mail! <kiko> come on <jordi> hm. launchpad mail. <jordi> subject? <kiko> it has FAQ in it <jordi> great. I never got it. <kiko> Questions for the FAQ <mdz> jordi: you should add that to the FAQ, I found it very informative <jordi> kiko: it's in my procmail log <jordi> let's see where it ended <jordi> hmm, =canonical/launchpad is a good place, ys <kiko> @#UI@!UIWQ <jordi> But why do I get other mails in my inbox? <kiko> jordi, is this your first time on a computer too? <jordi> it seems not all of the mail gets there. <jordi> lol <jordi> it's been a long day <jordi> things are hectic at the stupid office <kiko> you can say that again <jordi> we have a deadline on the 1st <jordi> I can: it's been a long day <kiko> oh, deadlines, how unusual <jordi> ok <jordi> I'll try to do something useful with the import quue <jordi> if it doesn't break apart even more <jordi> so when do we move the wiki to wiki.launchpad.net? <jordi> oh. I thought there was an agreement to change "Ubuntero" back to Ubuntite. Did I dream this? * LarstiQ sighs <LarstiQ> linking to distribution packages can use some improvements <AlinuxOS> jordi, hello <AlinuxOS> jordi, have some time for me? <jordi> AlinuxOS: I was on my way to bed :( <jordi> AlinuxOS: it's quite late here <AlinuxOS> jordi, ok bro no robs <AlinuxOS> probs :) <AlinuxOS> good night. <jordi> AlinuxOS: is it quick? <AlinuxOS> only one question <jordi> shoot! <AlinuxOS> who are Rosetta Administratos on launchpad ? <AlinuxOS> I saw armenian translation in armenian <AlinuxOS> translated by Rosetta Administrators. <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: sounds like an import from upstream? <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-desktop/+pots/gnome-desktop-2.0/hy/+translate <AlinuxOS> for example. <LarstiQ> exactly <AlinuxOS> the thing is that...I'm from georgian team... <jordi> AlinuxOS: if a translation gets imported automatically by our import scripts, and the file imported has no valid Last-Translator: header, it will use the name of the importer <jordi> in this case, it was Rosetta Admins <AlinuxOS> armenian is like georgian very exotic language <AlinuxOS> today Ive installed dapper <AlinuxOS> when I change to armenian layout <AlinuxOS> I can even write in armenian unicode <AlinuxOS> but in georgian I still need to put mu georgian unicode .ttf-s in right directorys. <AlinuxOS> can someone tell me what's is the pakcage name that... <jordi> AlinuxOS: hmm <AlinuxOS> provides .ttf unicode fonts.. <jordi> so Ubuntu lacks Georgan fonts? <AlinuxOS> the basic one... <jordi> that's bad. <AlinuxOS> jordi, yes <AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/ka <jordi> AlinuxOS: it seems there's no package with specific georgian fonts <AlinuxOS> and we are so enthusiastic with "Ubuntu in Georgian" and there is no georgian .ttf's by default. <AlinuxOS> :) <AlinuxOS> :/ <jordi> BUT <AlinuxOS> jordi, but with armenian yes. <jordi> I see the characters in gucharmap <jordi> so clearly something provides them <jordi> LarstiQ: do you know if xfonts-*-transcoded provides ttf-like fonts? <AlinuxOS> I need the name of package that is allredy installer in my system and provides armenian by default...in this mode I can understand what package provides them...and then contact a packag mantainer. <jordi> LarstiQ: gucharmap claims these Georgian fonts come from "fixed" * LarstiQ doesn't see them in gucharmap atm * LarstiQ fiddles a bit <AlinuxOS> in gucharmap I have only CUBES <jordi> ok <AlinuxOS> with numbers inside :/ <jordi> then there's hope <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: hah! I have empty cells :) <jordi> because I do see your characters. <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, yes my dear friend! :) <jordi> letter "shin" is like a latin "y" :) <AlinuxOS> and I have a lot translations of Ubuntu in georgian ;D <LarstiQ> then again, nothing seems to work <AlinuxOS> and when I change locales (a lot of thanks to pitti for time and patience) to ka... there is no more interface :) <LarstiQ> jordi: in short, no idea <AlinuxOS> jordi, our Y is very difficult to pronunciate <AlinuxOS> ;) <AlinuxOS> we have 33 letters <AlinuxOS> 28 consonants. <jordi> 28 consonants <jordi> TAKE THAT <AlinuxOS> for example, armenian is by default... <jordi> err <jordi> wow I need sleep <AlinuxOS> and there is no cubes. <jordi> I missparsed consonant for vowel <AlinuxOS> jordi, :) <AlinuxOS> go to sleep :) * LarstiQ is sad at gucharmap not showing _any_ character anymore :( <jordi> AlinuxOS: I suggest you install these packages and try <AlinuxOS> aybe you can help me with that tommorow or some other days :) <AlinuxOS> jordi, which? <jordi> xfonts-base-transcoded, xfonts-100dpi-transcoded <jordi> and maybe xfonts-75dpi-transcoded <AlinuxOS> ok <jordi> and tell me if after installing that, you can see these characters after restarting gucharmap <LarstiQ> jordi: iirc, transcoded packages are unicode fonts transformed to iso 8859 <AlinuxOS> jordi, allredy installed. * LarstiQ would surprised if that helped <jordi> LarstiQ: yeah <AlinuxOS> :) <jordi> me too <jordi> but gucharmap reports "fixed" as the origin for this font <LarstiQ> jordi: shouldn't AlinuxOS be in an utf8 locale? <jordi> there is one font <jordi> isn't he? <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, yes Georgian is in UTF-8 <AlinuxOS> ka_GE.UTF-8 <LarstiQ> right <LarstiQ> jordi: fixed is a strange beast <AlinuxOS> so this locale need some fonts.. <jordi> AlinuxOS: do you have ttf-freefont, ttf-dejavu and maybe ttf-opensymbol? <AlinuxOS> I have 3 best utf free fonts. <AlinuxOS> jordi, yes. <AlinuxOS> everything... <LarstiQ> how about xfonts-efont-unicode? <jordi> hrm. <jordi> LarstiQ: those would be bitmaps too <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, ah <AlinuxOS> I know this fonts <AlinuxOS> they are horrible like Devil.. <jordi> heh <AlinuxOS> very old version.. <LarstiQ> hehe <AlinuxOS> and no anti aliasing support. <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: but they do include Georgian <AlinuxOS> blergh :) <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, yes... <kiko-zzz> FIX BUILD BUSTAGE <AlinuxOS> but no one will you ubuntu with this horrible fonts:) <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: which is another wording for, I have no idea how it works with ttf fonts <jordi> kiko-zzz: good night dude <jordi> LarstiQ: there's something with these fonts <jordi> I ave it <AlinuxOS> this armienian fonts are very smooth... :) I'm searching for package that provides them... <jordi> AlinuxOS: fc-list |grep ixed <AlinuxOS> by default they are included. <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: could be by mistake <LarstiQ> fc-list | grep ixed <LarstiQ> lappie%~> <LarstiQ> aha... <AlinuxOS> boys do you know who on ubuntu-devel is font and X.org master ? :) <AlinuxOS> maybe there is soeone armenian :) <AlinuxOS> and he has included armenian by default :) <jordi> 2330:jordi@nubol:~$ fc-list -v |grep ixed <jordi> Fixed:style=Bold <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: my guess is that armenian just comes in with something else, unexpectedly <jordi> [...] <jordi> how do I find out what file is providing these? <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, ok...so I'm searching for this "something else" :) <LarstiQ> jordi: /etc/fonts/** ? <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: so are we :) <jordi> /usr/share/fonts ? <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, :) <AlinuxOS> hehe bro <LarstiQ> jordi: I was more thinking of the fc config <jordi> LarstiQ: nothing interesting <jordi> AlinuxOS: dunno, man * LarstiQ has interesting kana in that file <jordi> AlinuxOS: tried running fc-cache or stuff like that? <jordi> AlinuxOS: hmm, got gsfonts? <AlinuxOS> jordi, yes <jordi> the package <AlinuxOS> jordi, locales ka_GE noprobs... but my locale have no fonts ... and fc-cache updates when you put something yours... <AlinuxOS> I can put my fonts..and then run.. <jordi> nod <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: which fonts are you using then? <jordi> LarstiQ: this isn't fun <AlinuxOS> but someone (georgian future user) when changes locales...will not see in georgian. <jordi> I have a font providing it, but dunno which <LarstiQ> jordi: I love (X) fonts. <AlinuxOS> BPG_Chveulebrivi.ttf <jordi> 2377:jordi@nubol:/usr/share/fonts$ fc-match fixed <jordi> 12x13ja.pcf.gz: "Fixed" "ja" <jordi> this is why I suggested transcoded stuff <AlinuxOS> BPG_Courier.ttf <jordi> AlinuxOS: I assume you have xfonts-base installed <AlinuxOS> BPG_Glaho.ttf <AlinuxOS> best fonts for Ubuntu <jordi> ok <jordi> my last bet is that it's coming from xfonts-base <AlinuxOS> yes I ahve xfonts-base <LarstiQ> fc-list :lang=ka <LarstiQ> jordi: that gives fixed fonts/ <AlinuxOS> jordi, If you want tommorow I'll send you this .ttf's <jordi> AlinuxOS: is that ttf free? <jordi> free as in free speech <AlinuxOS> jordi, sure <AlinuxOS> not like a beer :) <LarstiQ> fc-list :lang=ja <LarstiQ> Kochi Gothic,:style=Regular, <LarstiQ> weee <AlinuxOS> there is no commercial georgian fonts.. <AlinuxOS> we are not so intelligent like redmonds people. <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: it can be freely modified, redistributed, etc? <AlinuxOS> we are poor and pure nation :) <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, yes. <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: good <LarstiQ> awww, there doesn't seem to be a font covering lang=jbo * LarstiQ refuses to believe <AlinuxOS> font covering? <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: BPG_Glaho.ttf covers Georgian <AlinuxOS> I can't understand you :) <AlinuxOS> sorry <AlinuxOS> covers Georgian? <LarstiQ> yes <AlinuxOS> do you speak italian ? :) <AlinuxOS> or russian? :) <LarstiQ> non. <AlinuxOS> or GEORGIAN :) <AlinuxOS> hehe <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: Dutch? :) <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, nooo :/ <AlinuxOS> Lars Ulrich from Metallica was Durch :) <jordi> I'm out <AlinuxOS> Dutch <jordi> laters <AlinuxOS> jordi, ok <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: hell no <AlinuxOS> I'll talk about this thing tommorow <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: he's Danish <AlinuxOS> :D <AlinuxOS> jordi, thank you a lot pal! <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, you to amico :) <LarstiQ> jordi: sleep well <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: I refuse to share a country with 'money good, napster baaad' :P <AlinuxOS> loooolz <AlinuxOS> :D <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, for example? <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: now you've lost me <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, ? * LarstiQ was just pointing out that Ulrich is from Denmark, and LarstiQ is from The Netherlands <AlinuxOS> why lost? <AlinuxOS> aaaaaaaaah <AlinuxOS> !!! <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: so I'm not sure what you want an example of? <AlinuxOS> sorry <AlinuxOS> !!! <AlinuxOS> viva Ajax! <AlinuxOS> :D <LarstiQ> haha :P <AlinuxOS> do you like ajax? <AlinuxOS> :D <LarstiQ> Ajax is from Amterdam, not one of my favourite cities <AlinuxOS> :) <AlinuxOS> there was a Georgian forward called Shota Arveladze :) <LarstiQ> I recognize that name, even if I don't follow football :) <AlinuxOS> :) <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, what bout you? ;) are you in some translation teams? <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: not really, although I've done one small bit of Lojban today <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, could you tell me what is the meaning of text files like fonts.cache-1 in /usr/share/fonts/truetype directory...? <LarstiQ> AlinuxOS: I'm presuming it is cached information about fonts generated during font package install <AlinuxOS> alinux@dapper:/usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-telugu-fonts$ dpkg -S Pothana2000.tt f <AlinuxOS> ttf-telugu-fonts: /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-telugu-fonts/Pothana2000.ttf <AlinuxOS> very strange font <AlinuxOS> so I'll see who makes it..and then install <LarstiQ> ttf-telugu-fonts for Telugu, never heard of the language <LarstiQ> ah, India <AlinuxOS> or when someone wants georgian locales , so package ttf-georgian-fonts must to be linked like dependency to language-pack-gnome-ka <LarstiQ> that sounds sensible to me, but I'm not involved in Ubuntu <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, :) <LarstiQ> and I'm 3 hours over my sleep deadline <AlinuxOS> so where? <LarstiQ> so where what? <AlinuxOS> ok <AlinuxOS> you are invulved in lauchpad only? <AlinuxOS> or? <LarstiQ> I'm here as a launchpad user <AlinuxOS> ah :) <AlinuxOS> ok LarstiQ <AlinuxOS> LarstiQ, nice to meet you :) and good night! <AlinuxOS> :D <LarstiQ> thanks, you too :) * LarstiQ goes to bed * AlinuxOS too <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: Fix https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/5394 (Clicking on 'Advanced search' should preserve simple search criteria) and https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5324 (Advanced search for bugs breaks if you don't select at least one status). r=BjornT (r3036: Guilherme Salgado) <mpt> stu1, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/29828 looks like your sort of bug * stu1 turns his sound on <carlos> morning <siretart> morning. <ajmitch> morning siretart <siretart> is soyuz already there? How do I notice when this happens? <jordi> hello <cprov> morning hackers <SteveA> morning <Kinnison> hi stevea <kiko> hello there <stub> lifeless: Want to review a disgusting db patch involving triggers, or should I just shove it through as trivial? <kiko> LOL <stub> eek... FLCOW appears to have stopped working :/ <kiko> why are you still using that? <stub> So I can have hard linked trees without chewing up all my disk space <kiko> I find the trees to be rather smallish nowadays <stub> LP_PRELOAD doesn't like spurious : anymore <stub> I've got two gigs of trees and most of them where created using cp -al <SteveA> stub: what are the triggers for? <stub> Maintaining a materialized view <SteveA> it is friday night, a sacred time for lifeless. i don't expect he'll be around today. <SteveA> materialized view of what? <stub> ValidPersonOrTeamCache <stub> Should make the FOAF vocabularies much faster once they use it <SteveA> i'll review it if you like. not that i claim any database knowledge... <jordi> kiko: my legs ache today <jordi> kiko: but this means the next time we meet, I am going to kick your ass. <SteveA> jordi: how far, how fast? <stub> SteveA: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileVsblsA.html <stub> SteveA: Or punt it to salgado since he will want to use it <jordi> SteveA: yesterday it was around 8 kms, but not so fast <jordi> There's still a long way to go <SteveA> stub: valid in this sense means "a person or team that is eligible to be selected as the owner of something" ? <stub> You can paraphrase it that way, yes <SteveA> "valid" is such an overloaded term <SteveA> i think it would help to qualify it somehow <stub> Indeed. It has a specific meaning dealing with people and teams though <stub> PeopleWIthPasswordsAndPreferredEmailAddressesOrTeamsThatAreNotMerged <SteveA> id integer PRIMARY KEY REFERENCES Person ON DELETE CASCADE <SteveA> does that mean when a Person is deleted, the cache record is also deleted? <SteveA> or the other way around?! <SteveA> typos: +Remove names from sabdfl to avlid triggeringthe valid_team_fields constraint <stub> When a person is deleted, the cache record is also deleted. Purely a convenience for me, since nothing else is able to delete People records <kiko> jordi, sorry, you're fucked for now <jordi> kiko: 1 year of no training shows. But I'll be back to my 2004 state soonish. word. <kiko> we'll see. <jordi> kiko: how did your 12h race go? <jordi> is it over? <kiko> that was almost two months ago! <kiko> it went well, we did 4th <kiko> I fell and cracked my helmet <SteveA> stub: you could define PREF = 4 earlier, and use that instead of a literal '4', although it would mean an awkward string substitution. nonetheless, i'd comment next to the literal '4' that it is PREF <SteveA> stub: i didn't see any problems in the logic, but i found it tricky to follow, so perhaps i made a mistake. would it be clearer if you dealt with team and non-team separately, and asserted that we don't change a non-team into a team or vice versa ? <jordi> kiko: your ugly helmet!? * jordi runs. <jordi> kiko: did you buy a decent one? <kiko> no <kiko> that one is fine <kiko> I cracked my old red one <kiko> chinstrap.ubuntu.com:/home/warthogs/archives/kiko/launchpad/cprov-hacking/ <cprov> kiko: ok <kiko> cprov, Kinnison: when you need it <seb128> hi <seb128> what is OOPS-27D175 about? <seb128> (I was just trying to open a bug page) <kiko> let's see. <kiko> I've seen this before <salgado> seb128, that's a timeout, and I can't reproduce it <salgado> it should work if you try again <seb128> yeah, it will probably <seb128> but I got random oops like that every day, so I figured I would ask <salgado> it seems to have been caused because another transaction was holding the lock on that table <kiko> the karma cache updater? <salgado> yeah, it's very annoying, but the problem is not actually on that page <kiko> that query also has a sequential scan, which is unfortunate. <salgado> kiko, it can't be, that table won't access any of the tables used on the query that took 15s to run <salgado> s/that table/that script <kiko> hmmm, true <salgado> you guys always want to blame that poor script. it runs only once in a day, and it's optimized now <kiko> heh <kiko> ok ok <kiko> so what else could it be? <kiko> also <salgado> I wish I knew <kiko> that query might be able to be converted to a union query <salgado> stub, did you get that view for the people vocabs? <SteveA> is the karma cache stuff separated into a separate table in production yet? <kiko> SteveA, no. <SteveA> okay, so next week <stub> SteveA: I need to be able to change teams into people and vice versa - having to disable triggers to update data is a pita and error prone. So the triggers are coping with stuff that is actually impossible to do via Launchpad. I also need to minimize queries (minimum possible writes, and minimum reads if it doesn't cause writes), which twists the logic a lot. <stub> If the karma cache stuff is giving trouble, I can just switch it off for a few days... <SteveA> stub: might be best to turn off karms stuff until the fix lands <stub> salgado: about to land the materialized view <salgado> great <stub> SELECT Person.id FROM Person,ValidPersonOrTeamCache WHERE Person.id=ValidPersonOrTeamCache.id and fti @@ ftq('launchpad') <stub> UNION SELECT EmailAddress.person From EmailAddress, ValidPersonOrTeamCache WHERE EmailAddress.person = ValidPersonOrTeamCache.id AND email ILIKE 'launchpad%' <stub> AND status IN (2,4) <stub> Which will be much faster than the left outer joins, as well as matching both validated AND preferred email addresses <salgado> stub, that's really great. do we have all columns from the person table in that view? <stub> salgado: No - it is just an id column. It is designed to be joined. <salgado> ah, right <stub> We can go that way if we need to, but I think this approach will be fine and won't affect insert or update performance too much or over complicate things. <stub> back in an hour <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=SteveA] ValidPersonOrTeamCache (r3037: Stuart Bishop) <Kinnison> stub: ping? <mdke> is the bugmail to mailing list thing sorted out now? <Kinnison> k <Kinnison> stub: n/m <stub> yo <Kinnison> I was gonna ask you to run a few statements for me on staging's db, but elmo's doing it for me now <stub> Kinnison: You have access as the postgresql user too if you want <Kinnison> stub: I do? from which local user on where? <stub> dsilvers on asuka can login as the postgres user to the launchpad_staging database <Kinnison> okay, thanks * Kinnison wishes asuka went more quickly * SteveA --> lunch <Kinnison> This DELETE has racked up nearly 30 CPU minutes so far <ddaa> Hi <ddaa> sory for being late, (finally) got my Thinkpad back and had to resync my homedir from the iBook. <kiko> this delay is extremely distressing <kiko> stub, ping me when you are back? <stub> kiko: ping <kiko> stub, if you look at PQM, you'll see a patch and test for a gina bug. <kiko> because it's a very trivial problem, it won't require re-running gina <kiko> but it would require a) issuing an SQL query to fix the problem b) rolling out that fix to the gina-running code (on drescher?) <kiko> the problem is that the BinaryPackageRelease.architecturespecific flag is inverted (it should be set to True where it is set to False and vice-versa) <stub> Kinnison: There is a fiera connection 'idle in transaction' - might be holding a lock open <Kinnison> stub: it was eating CPU, so I don't think it's relevant, but we've closed them just in case <kiko> stub, should I mail you with the details? <salgado> stub, I finished merging your changes and got this error when trying to do a make schema: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileKvNY3o.html <salgado> stub, does this mean I need to upgrade to postgresql-8? <stub> kiko: Ok. So UPDATE BinaryaPackageRelease SET architecturespecific=not architecturespecific on production, staging, and update gina code on drescher <Kinnison> stub: not on staging <Kinnison> stub: We're doing staging; <stub> Kinnison: ok <kiko> stub, right. <Kinnison> stub: thanks dude <stub> salgado: You might need to update trusted.sql to not use the $$ delimiter, instead using '. Although you really should be running 8.0 as requested quite some time ago... <kiko> salgado, aren't you running 8.0? * kiko thought you were <salgado> yeah, I'll upgrade to 8.0 <salgado> no, I'm not <kiko> the workstations have 8.0 don't they? <salgado> no <kiko> they don't? <kiko> the package is available on breezy.. <salgado> I know, but I didn't install it <kiko> ah <salgado> when I configured the workstations I decided to use 7.4 because there were issues with the generated sampledata being different in 8.0 <salgado> and then I was always delaying the upgrade <kiko> yeah, now I remember * carlos -> lunch <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial] Fix an inverted clause resulting in disaster for BinaryPackageRelease.architecturespecific, pointed out by the build sequencer. Is now tested. (r3038: Christian Reis) * kiko sighs <kiko> stub, that's the one. <ddaa> grah shit... I lost the Evolution followup flags in the process :( <stub> salgado: By 'we don't need it here' I meant the read/write cachedproperty. The cachedproperty on preferredemail is good. <salgado> ah, right. I got it wrong, sorry <kiko> ddaa, STOP USING EVOLUTION FFS <Kinnison> evolution is fine * Kinnison uses it all the time <ddaa> yay! MUA flamewar! <ddaa> TBH, evo sucks, but mutt sucks more. <ddaa> and evo is not yet painful enough for me to try thunderbird, also it seems that thunderbird spam filter produces mixed results <LarstiQ> thunderbird supposedly has compatible calendars for my ipod <ddaa> calendars? ipod? <ddaa> two things I do not
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