#ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-02 <dpm> good morning all #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-05 <Hoyt> Hi , anyone here ? <Hoyt> I received an email captioned "Information needed for QMuttNotifier" <chiatello> Hi, could anyone here give me advice about installing software that isn't in an apt repository? <chiatello> Is there any way to notify apt that you have installed an application from source? <chiatello> so that it could be removed via apt or to avoid conflicts <JanC> chiatello should stay around longer... (yes, that is possible) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-06 <coolstar-pc> How do I include libpcre in my gcc project? <coolstar-pc> What is the equivilant of the PHP "preg_match" function in PCRE+C++? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-07 <jo-erlend> morning everyone. <jo-erlend> The backlog of this channel is becoming more depressing for each day. <jo-erlend> we need to do something about it. <ajmitch> jo-erlend: you mean the near-complete lack of activity for much of the day? <JanC> ajmitch: the lack of activity is mostly because of the lack of responsiveness... <JanC> for some reason, many people with the knowledge app developers need aren't here... <jalcine> is there like a Ubuntu HIG doc? <JanC> jalcine: currently there isn't a unified doc AFAIK <jalcine> JanC: if not here, then in #u-unity, #u-desktop, #u-devel.. <jalcine> I've been itching for it. <jalcine> Building Qt apps for Ubuntu is quite a task.. <JanC> jalcine: I would think the reason for this channel is to be one place to ask questions âº <JanC> instead of trying to figure out which of the 50 other channels that might be appropriate... <jalcine> true <JanC> i think the GNOME HIG applies to most Ubuntu things, but there is also some additional stuff related to Unity, indicators, lenses, etc. <jalcine> Hmm. Then a tango with the GNOME HIG is up next.. <jalcine> JanC: in regards to assistance, I do stay here just to provide that, the most of what I know. <JanC> and I think mhall119 might be working on something more integrated (or at least he might have prodding the right people to write that as a goal) <JanC> jalcine: right, but we don't know evrything, and having unity, ubuntuone, etc. people around & active would help a lot <jalcine> true. <mhall119> JanC: HIG? <JanC> Human Interface Guidelines <mhall119> yeah, but I'm not doing anything along those lines <JanC> basically, tells app developers how to design UI <mhall119> I'm just trying to get all the Unity bits *documented* <JanC> mhall119: I'd say that's part of it ;) <mhall119> maybe, it's more of a "what is" though, not a "what should be" <JanC> if anybody wants to integrate in a proper way <mhall119> yes, that's true, dpm and I are working on docs developers will need to integrate with Ubuntu technology <JanC> I'd say a consistent UI is at least as important as API technicalities for that ;) <jalcine> It's vital. <jalcine> It gives a sense of ... Unity. :P <mhall119> JanC: I'd agree, but that's out of my scope <jalcine> no pun intented. <jalcine> The design team should be on that. <JanC> mhall119: then kick whomever is responsible for that ;) * jalcine gives mhall119 +F flag. <mhall119> JanC: I know there is work already underway on that in a couple of areas <jalcine> lol <mhall119> previously we just defaulted to the GNOME HIG, but with Unity we now have to define our own <JanC> oh, and while I am talking about this, tell Canonical people that they should never be allowed to release software that doesn't have a manpage and other documentation :P <JanC> people on the server team, the installer team, etc. seem to understand this very well (but then again, many of them have roots in Debian, etc.) * jalcine hides his code. <mhall119> JanC: you know my authority over people in Canonical is about as good as yours right? <ajmitch> mhall119: but you know the secret handshakes :) <JanC> right :P <mhall119> ajmitch: you're not supposed to tell people about the handshakes <ajmitch> sorry <mhall119> I mean, uh, what handshakes? <ajmitch> TINC, right? <mhall119> UnknownAcronymException: What is TINC? <ajmitch> there is no cabal <mhall119> oh yeah definitely, definitely no cabal <mhall119> the council of elders forbids it <jalcine> lol <jalcine> you guys are awesome. <JanC> enough joking ;) , and you probably know better how to get the documentation message over than I do... <jalcine> must be sahweet working there. <mhall119> JanC: "beg, bribe and steal" has been my method to date <mhall119> courses, 'steal' is hard when there's nothing there, and 'bribe' is hard when you have nothing anybody wants <ajmitch> JanC: sorry, I shall not joke about such things :) <jo-erlend> ajmitch, pretty much empty for weeks, it looks like. <ajmitch> jo-erlend: do you think it's too many people looking for answers & not enough people knowing? <jo-erlend> mhall119, I'm very interested in following the documentation work for Unity stuff. Do you have some place for it? * ajmitch has mostly seen useful unity documentation on the wiki & on blogs <jo-erlend> it's been a very moving target, you know. But it's very important to have some basic documentation so that we can start making more examples and tutorials. <jalcine> ajmitch: it might be that. <ajmitch> certainly, I think it'll be a bit more of a stable platform from precise onwards <jo-erlend> ajmitch, oh, and it's not really that I'm worried that questions go unanswered. It's more that if people never see anything going on here, they stop coming. They the channel doesn't become more active, so more people stop coming, etc. Activity grows activity. <ajmitch> jo-erlend: right, which can be why it's hard to grow a community as well :) <jalcine> Indeed.y <mhall119> jo-erlend: all I'm doing is asking which wiki docs are still accurate, getting them updated, and then dpm is just doing a copy/paste of them into developer.u.c <jalcine> You know what sucks sometimes? Writing tests. <jalcine> Sometimes it's hard to know _what_ to test. <ajmitch> yes, writing tests can be quite a challenge <jalcine> It's a bit easier with pesky bugs. <jo-erlend> mhall119, right. That's somewhat difficult to follow. And by the way; does Unity API versions correspond to Unity versions? <mhall119> jo-erlend: I believe so, yes <jo-erlend> I wish we could have a bug/issue tracker for development tools. For instance, I have no idea how to add a counter to an indicator menuitem and as far as I can tell, it isn't explained in the API docs. <ajmitch> there's at least a LP project for developer.ubuntu.com, but I think there should be something for the platform overall <mhall119> jo-erlend: you mean for the message indicator? <mhall119> or a launcher? <jo-erlend> mhall119, not launchers. Indicators. Is it special for the message menu? <mhall119> it's the only one that has any kind of "counter" that I know of <jo-erlend> Right. I hadn't really thought about that. :) <ajmitch> you mean the bubble on the right-hand side of the menu item? <jo-erlend> yes <ajmitch> I suspect that it's a fairly custom menu item in the messaging indicator * ajmitch wonders how that's represented over dbus #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-08 <mhall119> jo-erlend: still about? <jo-erlend> mhall119, strangely enough :) <mhall119> jo-erlend: http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/01/16/working-with-the-ubuntu-messaging-menu has some python examples for setting an item with a count in the message menu <mhall119> I'm not sure if it's still accurate or not <mhall119> (this is one of the things I've been working to discover) <jo-erlend> mhall119, ah. Interesting. Thanksâ¦ <dpm> good morning all <jalcine> Anyone here fancy Docbook? <jalcine> If so, is it recommended for package documentation of apps? * ajmitch hasn't really had the joy of using it <jalcine> KDE uses it in conjunction with KHelpCenter to generate documentation; works like a charm. <jalcine> But I was wondering how I could do the same for GNOME Help Center. <jalcine> Wow, think I figured it out. <jalcine> Going to write a blog-post about it because that was NOT easy. <jalcine> However, the need to provide documentation with an application can prove that your program's not intuitive enough that user X can look at it and figure out how to use it. <jalcine> Hm, okay, got a variable (X-GNOME-DocPath) <jalcine> Now to expand that on a KDE system, lol. <jalcine> Oh wait, that just goes into the desktop file. <jalcine> Sweet. <jalcine> Drat, I don't know if it should be a full path or relative path, and if the latter to where... <dpm> jalcine, if your app is GTK-based, the recommended format for documentation is Mallard <dpm> you can see how it works creating a quickly test project: * dpm runs it <dpm> argh, quickly throws an error <dpm> filing a bug... <jalcine> I'll look into that. <dpm> try running 'quickly create ubuntu-application testdoc' <jalcine> Gotta pull in quickly, hold on. <jalcine> http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2009/10/getting-started-with-mallard-help.html << makes it look quite easy. <jalcine> Got an error saying there's no 'create' command <jalcine> I'm confused :$ <jalcine> Lol, wow, I forgot to install quickly-ubuntu-template. <jalcine> Hmm, I'm debating whether or not if I should have a debdiff to my package to make tests run after build-time of the core app. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-09 <theGrowingNoise> i'm trying to install quickly on precise beta1 <theGrowingNoise> getting these errors: <theGrowingNoise> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/atk1.0/libatk1.0-dev_2.3.91-0ubuntu1_i386.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 936-429-9875 80] <theGrowingNoise> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/atk1.0/libatk1.0-doc_2.3.91-0ubuntu1_all.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 936-429-9875 80] <theGrowingNoise> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/libx/libxi/libxi-dev_156.14.161.142-0ubuntu1_i386.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 936-429-9875 80] <theGrowingNoise> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python-distutils-extra/python-distutils-extra_2.32-1_all.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 936-429-9875 80] #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-12 <jalcine> Life's tough when using gdb is more efficient than using an IDE's debugger. <jalcine> Hello developers :) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-13 <jalcine> mhall119: I think you should express the importance of D-Bus in Linux in your documentation quest for developers. <jalcine> It can save them tremendous amounts of time and allows them (almost all of the time) to code in their language of choice. <mhall119> jalcine: I'm focusing on the APIs were going to support <mhall119> and also what I could find documentation on <jalcine> If you find anything specific of Unity's Dash and querying it, please ping. <jalcine> I've been searching for quite some time and not being able to exactly download the code (on this slow connection) is a bit hard. <mhall119> jalcine: you mean responding to a search, or initiating one? <jarek___> Hello <jarek___> are Ubuntu Store apps allowed to have dependencies from Multiverse repository? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-14 <jo-erlend> is anyone working on fixing developer.ubuntu.com? It's currently recommending software that we're no longer using. For instance, in 12.04, it will not be possible to use PyGTK with Quickly. So those pages and tutorials should be removed. <jo-erlend> it is better to have too little information than to provide wrong information. <ajmitch> jo-erlend: I'd say to file a bug against ubuntu-developer-portal, I think that's the right part for documentation <ajmitch> though there are some bugs on there that I thought would have been fixed awhile ago <jo-erlend> I don't really understand the difference between ubuntu-app-developer and developer.ubuntu.com. <ajmitch> from what I know, ubuntu-developer-portal is for the normal, visible parts of the site <ajmitch> developerportal is for bugs about app submission & review <jo-erlend> heh, that's coherent. <ajmitch> yeah I know :) <jo-erlend> stuff like this annoys me to no end. <ajmitch> and sorry, it's ubuntudeveloperportal, no dashes <ajmitch> it's developer-portal that has the - ;) <jo-erlend> it's much more difficult to learn how to find out how to learn than it is to actually learn. <ajmitch> right, made worse by links to outdated libraries or just broken links <jalcine> wait what? <jo-erlend> right. And a mix of completely different tools. On the first page, you read that you should use Quickly and PyGTK. Then on the next page, there are links to Qt Creator and MonoDevelop. <jalcine> learn how to find out how to learn than .... *brain pops* <jo-erlend> jalcine, right. By the time you've figured out what to read, you're so exhausted and confused that you're ready to give up. :) <jalcine> lol I was close. <jalcine> If you really want something, you'd find it. <ajmitch> you shouldn't have to struggle to find the right thing <jalcine> I was looking for introspection of Unity over D-Bus. <ajmitch> jalcine: oh that's easy ;) <jalcine> Couldn't find in XML so I fired up qdbusviewer, and just pulled it from there. <ajmitch> though I knew the right person to ask <jalcine> see? lol, I didn't ask first. <jalcine> I combed the net. <jalcine> and I can't view SSL sites on this network connection <jalcine> b/c my phone's tethering app blocks it. <jalcine> so I was stumped. <jalcine> and the worst part: I'm a Kubuntu User. <jo-erlend> Â«I want to try to create my first program using Quickly and PyGTK, that I read about on developer.ubuntu.com. Which of these should I use? I'm a little confused by which of these tools are best for me. The site says: "C++ or QML, an innovative CSS & JavaScript-like language. With QT Creator, UI designers and developers can share code easily."Â» <ajmitch> jo-erlend: and then the link to quickly on the site is broken <jo-erlend> heh <jo-erlend> yes, and if you join #Quickly and ask, we'll tell you not to use PyGTK. :) <jalcine> Lol wow. <jalcine> So QML's the future? or Vala? * ajmitch needs to find who to talk to in order to get some of these problems sorted <jo-erlend> Python with GTK3 is good. <ajmitch> when introspection works :) <jo-erlend> though, of course, there's lots of bugs with the Python/GTK combo, so you can't do everything. :) <jo-erlend> ajmitch, right. :) * jalcine is tempted to say "Go Qt" :P <ajmitch> pyside <jo-erlend> why not WinForms? <jo-erlend> :) <ajmitch> because I don't like putting my face through a shredder <jo-erlend> :) <jo-erlend> but I wish we could do something properly for once. <jalcine> Lol <jalcine> Properly like select a unified development scheme? <jalcine> It's hard since there isn't a real "Ubuntu" API per se. <jalcine> I think something like that could lock in a certain development flow and then an accepted language (or at least most preferred) <jalcine> The closest to that is perhaps Unity and U1 integration. <jalcine> Throw in Zeitgeist if you want to get fancy. <jo-erlend> Â«Five Reasons to care about PyGtk: ... Multiple language support â if you would prefer to code in something other than Python, you can use PyGtk with C, Java and other languages.Â» <-- Yes, that's not alexanderlisa@example.com. <ajmitch> uh what? <jalcine> That's redundant, isn't it? <jalcine> C -> PyGtk -> C ? <jalcine> You know what they need? <jo-erlend> jalcine, yes, properly, like selectinv a unified development scheme. At least get people to the point where they're able to know how to get information before you expose them to lots of different choices, toolkits, etc. <jalcine> Code examples. <jalcine> Like examples of the same "Ubuntu"-esque action done in C, Mono/C#, Python, C++, Java, etc. <jo-erlend> but this is just another forgotten chat. Until we get some bug tracker and ways to actually work on things, we're not getting anywhere. <jalcine> Where would we stick it? <jo-erlend> I seem to remember having an almost exact copy of this discussion when I was using Fedora Core. That's a few years ago now. * jalcine would write a blog post about it. <jalcine> Maybe it's a Linux thing, then? <jo-erlend> it's a free software thing. It sucks. :) <ajmitch> jo-erlend: the templates for developer.ubuntu.com are in LP, but the rest of the content doesn't appear to be <ajmitch> documentation is hard <jalcine> Really hard :$ <jo-erlend> yes, and it's very hard when there's no documentation to improve. <jalcine> This sounds like a weekend hack-up. <jalcine> I think I could smack together something. <jo-erlend> hehe <jalcine> Just need a Ubuntu-esque page template. <jo-erlend> that's the big problem. <ajmitch> jalcine: bzr branch lp:ubuntudeveloperportal <jo-erlend> the world is full of "weekend hackups". <jalcine> hehe <ajmitch> jo-erlend: you don't want another place which has 80% of what you need? :) <jo-erlend> right <jo-erlend> "Looks good, but it doesn't work" :) <jo-erlend> actually.. It's not a problem if something is missing. It's a bigger problem when there are unrelated stuff mixed in, such as the Qt Creator and MonoDevelop in the Python/Quickly context. <jalcine> Indeed. <jalcine> and isn't Mono like phased out of support? :$ <jo-erlend> I have no idea. <ajmitch> jo-erlend: you think the alternatives are too prominent? <jalcine> After that takeover with Attachmate, I think Ximerian has only focused on mobile development. <jalcine> MonoDroid and what no. <jalcine> *not <ajmitch> jalcine: mono itself it still going strong * jalcine looks for Banshee as the default media player app :P <jo-erlend> hehe... Ah! I found "Get help" on developer.u-c. It leads to this page: http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/ <jalcine> I'd contribute to Mono if I had the know-how. <ajmitch> canonical's interest in mono-based apps is another story :P <jalcine> Lol, of course. <jo-erlend> "I'm stuck. Please help! What do I do?" Response? "Submit a tutorial" :) <ajmitch> jo-erlend: heh <jalcine> It'd make bug reporting a LOT affective though, with JIT. <ajmitch> or contribute by becoming a member of the ARB? that's not really an option for many <jalcine> it's one or the other. <jalcine> Hmm. I can't remember, U1 allows syncing of app configurations? <jalcine> Or is that CouchDB? <jo-erlend> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/ <-- heh, they even forgot to color the logo! :) <jo-erlend> jalcine, CouchDB is not supported anymore. <jalcine> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/revision-control/ <-- what happened to Git or SVN? <jalcine> I mean, yeah, Bazaar's the gem, but the other ones should be mentioned.. <jo-erlend> no, not at all! <jo-erlend> at least, not in the main pages. <jalcine> Well, the logo's probably not colored in to emphasize the blue-print nature of it? <jo-erlend> yes, that was just a joke. :) <jalcine> Lol, sorry <jalcine> IRC needs a /joke /endjoke command <jalcine> lol <jo-erlend> but I'm serious about the other things. Let's provide _one_ starting point that leads to something concrete. That should be Python with Quickly, Glade, Bazaar and Launchpad. <jalcine> "Building With Ubuntu: A Tutorial" <jo-erlend> jalcine? * jalcine was thinking of a title. <jo-erlend> ah <jalcine> Something like that would take quite some time. <jo-erlend> right. They come to learn Ubuntu development. Python is the easiest language to learn, and in the process, you learn VCS, GUI design, and collaboration with Launchpad. Once you have that, moving onto another language will be much easier, since you can focus on the language itself. <jalcine> Indeed. <jalcine> This is going to be something I'd think heavily about. <jalcine> G'night all. <jo-erlend> 1) Python basics. OOP is unnecessary. 2) GTK basics. Only signals and packing. 3) VCS basics. 4) GUI design basics. <jalcine> it's ticking an hour past midnight and my oil's all burnt out. <jo-erlend> :) <jo-erlend> sleep well then. :) <jalcine> Heh, yeah, last thing you need to do is confuse them with polymorphism and class inheritance. <jo-erlend> OOP is not at all needed in order to build a simple GTK application. <jo-erlend> I seem to remember someone mentioning a Ubuntu Developer Manual once upon a time. Does anyone know what happened to that? <ajmitch> it could have been for people developing ubuntu, rather than developing with ubuntu <ajmitch> there's been this confusion between the terms :) <jo-erlend> right <jo-erlend> hey rickspencer3 :) <rickspencer3> hello jo-erlend! <jo-erlend> good morning. :) <jo-erlend> you're still in France, right? <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, I think a lot of your quickly widgets code is in Ubuntu today <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, yes, I'm in France for at least until this summer <jo-erlend> oh. That's cool. I wrote an email to quickly-talk. There's no GSettings schemas being created for new apps. Do you know why? <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, sorry, I don't :( <jo-erlend> I'm not entirely sure how that stuff is supposed to work, so I'm a little bit stuck. But right now, Quickly doesn't alexanderlisa@example.com. <ajmitch> hi rickspencer3 <rickspencer3> hi ajmitch <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, perhaps I've forgotten how it works. I thought running quickly from trunk was simply a matter of adding it to the PYTHONPATH, but that doesn't work? <jo-erlend> I would like to test that it isn't fixed before I add another bug report about it. <jo-erlend> no, it does... I don't know why it didn't before. And the problem is fixed in trunk. <jo-erlend> it'd still be nice to have a PPA though. Particularly now that it's broken in Ubuntu. <mhall119> jo-erlend: where was that "Get help" link? <jo-erlend> mhall119, http://developer.ubuntu.com <jo-erlend> mhall119, Resources > Get help. <jo-erlend> there is one link "on this page", which is the "Community Page". It asks you to contribute. It doesn't do much helping though. <jo-erlend> however, it does have a link back to where you came from. I don't know if that's meant as a hint :) <mhall119> jo-erlend: thanks, I'll make a note of this and try and make it point somewhere more helpful :) <jo-erlend> I just came across one of the nastiest four-letter words... In the middle of an interesting tutorial! You do know which one I'm talking about? That's right! "TODO". :) <mhall119> lol <mhall119> where? <jo-erlend> not related. http://www.tortall.net/mu/wiki/CairoTutorial :) <mhall119> not related == not my problem, I like those <jo-erlend> :) * JackyAlcine alexanderlisa@example.com. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-15 <dmj726> What would be best practices for creating a publication for the Ubuntu Software Center <jo-erlend> dmj726, "publication"? <dmj726> like a book or magazine <dmj726> jo-erlend: <jo-erlend> right. I don't think there's anything too special about it. They get added to /opt/yourcomp/. I'm not entirely sure how they appear in users dashes, though. <jo-erlend> mhall119 probably knows. <dmj726> what does Unity do with link or directory types? <jo-erlend> dmj726, I don't understand that question. <dmj726> in the desktop entry file <jo-erlend> ...? <dmj726> type can be application, link, or directory <jo-erlend> I'm not entirely sure what directory does. But a link is handled as a link, and an application is handled as an application. I don't know what you're asking. <jo-erlend> I need to reboot. <jo-erlend> brb <SpamapS> Howdy! I'm trying to fix the aws-status appindicator that comes included with txaws... <SpamapS> (not an experienced gtk programmer so going is slow...) <SpamapS> At some point, the label from my indicator got "stuck" in my panel.. <SpamapS> the process isn't running anymore.. so... what gives? * SpamapS suspects perhaps a panel bug could be at play too <dpm> hi SpamapS, unfortunately, I cannot help on this one. You might want to ask ted when he's online, or alternatively ask also on http://askubuntu.com/questions/ask?tags=application-development <SpamapS> I haven't been able to reproduce <SpamapS> so its possible I just said the incantations wrong or crossed the streams or something <dpm> ah, right <jml> jo-erlend: hi <jo-erlend> jml, hi. :) <jml> jo-erlend: I saw your email to ubuntu-app-devel. I think you make an excellent point. <jml> jo-erlend: but I honestly have no good answers. <jo-erlend> neither do I, otherwise I would've suggested something specific. <jml> jo-erlend: heh heh <jml> jo-erlend: I figured if I started rambling on IRC that would be more likely to yield fruit than just sitting on your email like a mother hen. <jml> Or maybe that should be yielding eggs <jml> metaphors are hard. <jml> Anyway. <jo-erlend> however, I forgot to write about the positive side if we do put an effort into this. For instance; it is currently true that you cannot make a custom GTK TreeModel using Python. Now you know. And I'll remember having told someone about it. However, some time into the future, this problem will be fixed and I'll get notified by email when it does. I will not remember who I've told this to. So people are most likely going to keep thinking it's <jml> we've been talking a bit within Canonical about the Ubuntu "developer offering", where that's an umbrella term for the whole app developer picture: tools, API, SDK, etc. <jo-erlend> not possible, long after it becomes possible. If we had tracked this issue, then the fix would become well known much faster, leading to less confusion in the future. <jml> jo-erlend: huh. that sounds like a thing where stackoverflow or askubuntu would help a lot * dpm was thinking that too <jo-erlend> it wouldn't. I ask why my program doesn't work, and the response is that I've done everything correctly, but there is a bug in Python/GTK that prohibits that kind of application from working. Two years later, the bug is fixed. Who will update the answers on stack? <jo-erlend> in other words; we are efficient in saying there is a problem, but the solution will go unnoticed. This is harmful. <jo-erlend> if, on the other hand, we link specific bugs to a "ubuntu-python-developer" project, then we will both have a way to get an overview of issues, but also know that solutions will be just as visible as the problem were. <jo-erlend> so I'm imagining something like this. You have a Ubuntu App Developer project. Underneith this project, you have sub-projects for toolkits, and under them, languages. So you'd have something like UAD > GTK > Python, UAD > GTK > C++, and UAD > Qt > Gambas. What do you think? <dpm> jo-erlend, let me add a comment on one of the points here: the point of stackoverflow is that it can be updated, and cleaned up! So to answer the question to who will update the answers on Askubuntu or Stackoverflow: either you or someone else affected by the problem <jo-erlend> if there is an issue with Python and GTK development, then there is also a problem with GTK development on Ubuntu. Further, there is a problem with app development on Ubuntu. But even if Python/GTK is problematic, it doesn't necessarily mean those problems exist with Vala or some other language. <dpm> jo-erlend, in a way, what you're proposing is quite similar to what we're doing with the ubuntu-translations project in LP, which has been working quite well <jo-erlend> dpm, yes, but that depends on manual work, that someone who is affected still cares enough to update, etc. You could say the same thing about email or IRC. If I really care, I can now make a note of everyone who is in this channel now, and when the problem is fixed, I'll remember to come here and tell you about it. But in reality, I know I won't. Bugs can be linked, however. <dpm> you need the same amount of dedication and work to find and link a bug as to update a stackoverflow answer :) <jo-erlend> I think the difficulty is defining workflows. Making a certain development method a supported development method with issues that can be tracked and worked on. <jo-erlend> dpm, only if you're very dedicated. I would possibily be willing to do that. But you'd also have to maintain a list of distributions for that to work well. But we need to see it from the other angle; a user decides to learn how to write a program on Ubuntu. The first projects are easy, and the user slowly becomes more confident. Then he runs into a problem, and somehow finds out it's a bug. He then files a bug to the app-dev project, which <jo-erlend> can then help improve the bug description and file the bug at the right tracker. <jo-erlend> I mean; it took me a week to realize that there was a bug in the GTK GIR bindings. I had to spend quite some time figuring out exactly where to file a bug, and when I finally found it, it was already reported and had been known for months with no activity. Others in the community knows much more than I do about GIR bindngs and GTK+. <dpm> jo-erlend, I think having an ubuntu-app-devel project might be a good idea as an umbrella project. As I say, it's worked well for translations -> it has given more visibility to i18n/l10n bugs, and most importantly, it's helped creating a team of dedicated community members around the project. My main concern is about the sub-projects and spreading out too thin <jo-erlend> right. The details would have to be figured out. It's easy to make things too complicated. But we should at least track blockers. The program Gramps, for instance, can't be upgraded to GTK3 and GIR, because of the bug I've used as an example. My projects are probably going to be canceled, because the bug doesn't have a chance of getting the attention required to get it fixed. And though I'd want to, I don't have the time to go so deep into G <jo-erlend> TK+ development that I can fix it myself. <jo-erlend> and how many of these blockers are there? If I was unlucky enough to find the single one, then ok. It's annoying for me, but it might not be detrimental to app development in general. But if there are many and noone knows it, then it can have nasty effects in the long term. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-16 <dmj726> In the long description of the control file is it possible to have a question mark? <dmj726> For submitting an app, what needs to be in the source package? <JackyAlcine_> Typical Debian package requirements, no? <dmj726> I've not actually packaged something new for submission before, so I'm trying to make sure I'm getting it right <ajmitch> dmj726: where are you submitting to? <dmj726> ubuntu software centre <dmj726> through My Apps <ajmitch> ok, a free app? <dmj726> No, my plan was for a paid app <dmj726> Though the contents themselves will be licensed freely <ajmitch> right, then the good people who handle reviewing those should be able to help when you submit it <dmj726> okay, I've heard it takes them a lot longer if they have to reverse engineer whatever you give them <ajmitch> if you submit a binary package, I imagine it would <dmj726> right now I've got a tarball with /debian and the source code in it, a .dsc, and a .changes file all in a tarball <ajmitch> ok, and debian/control, debian/rules are filled out sufficiently for building the package? e.g. you have all build-dependencies listed that you know of, and debian/rules can build the app <ajmitch> I'm assuming it's software :) <dmj726> yeah, the only thing it requires is firefox <dmj726> well, it requires firefox if you don't want to browse to /opt/thepackage for the stuff manually <ajmitch> right, that should be fairly easy then <dmj726> I built the package locally and it worked <ajmitch> great <ajmitch> you were asking about the long description earlier, afaik it can have punctuation like '?' in it <dmj726> yeah it was displaying funny if I had a ? at the end of a line <IanLiu> I'm calling g_debug in my app, but it won't show. This happens on Ubuntu 12.04. Any hints on why this happens? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-17 <pavolzetor> hi, <pavolzetor> would you suggest to use gdbus or dbus-python <pavolzetor> ? <pavolzetor> anybody? <pavolzetor> thanks folks #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-20 <dpm> morning all <jo-erlend> hey dpm. :) <dpm> hey, morning jo-erlend, how are things going? <jo-erlend> dpm, I'm fine, thanks. I made a prototype of HUD support for Quickly and it was seriously awesome, so today I'll start implementing it for real. :) <dpm> jo-erlend, oh wow! <jo-erlend> yes, I'm really looking forward to getting it out there. It's very cool. <dpm> cool <jo-erlend> there's a few things I don't know how to do yet, though. Switching between windows, etc. But that's not critical so I'll postpone it and do the basic stuff first. <dpm> jo-erlend, yeah, that makes sense. You might want to have a chat with ted for the more advanced stuff <jo-erlend> who's ted? <dpm> Ted Gould <jo-erlend> ah. <dpm> https://launchpad.net/~ted <jo-erlend> there's not really that much advanced stuff for this application to do. I reuse bzr and quickly for all the actual work. So this just ties it together. <dpm> jo-erlend, actually, mhall119 and I are currently putting together some Unity integration documentation in developer.ubuntu.com. One area where we are lacking is the HUD, so your experience as an app developer providing this integration will actually be very valuable. Once you're done, would you be happy to work with us to add some documentation to d.u.c? <jo-erlend> sure. I cheat now, though. There's nothing really HUD about what I do. It's just designed for the HUD. I just use normal menus which just happens to not be displayed. <jo-erlend> but I'm very interested in helping out with Unity documentation in general. I just need some API docs I can read and understand first, then I can expand on it and make it more reader friendly, providing examples, etc. <jo-erlend> I've learned some interesting things along the way, though. In the first prototype, I modeled the menus the same way I would if they were to be used as menus. In the second, I do it the opposite way, and that works much better. Guess that's why experimentation is good. <dpm> cool #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-21 <dpm> good morning all <mr_ubuntu_12> HELP PLZ: command "quickly edit" opens one file in vi instead of all files gedit <mr_ubuntu_12> i want to be able to develop apps using ubuntu , is quickly the best platform? <mr_ubuntu_12> HELP PLZ: command "quickly edit" opens one file in vi instead of all files gedit <mr_ubuntu_12> any1? <mr_ubuntu_12> QUESTION : what is the BEST platform for developing applications using ubuntu .. quickly only has ubuntu templates #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-22 <achuni> morning everybody <dpm> hey achuni, good morning :) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-24 <pavolzetor> Hi, can anybody look at this? <pavolzetor> http://askubuntu.com/questions/115611/dbus-nested-dictionary-in-python <pavolzetor> I used to use Key: JSON strng <pavolzetor> but then I need to bind jason to client <pavolzetor> json <pavolzetor> I would prefer to send rather nested dicts <pavolzetor> nope? <jo-erlend_> pavolzetor, what kind of keys do you use? <jo-erlend_> perhaps the issue is that the value of key2 is a list of dicts and not a string? <pavolzetor> yep <pavolzetor> but I do not know how to do ti <pavolzetor> it <pavolzetor> last key is list of dicts <pavolzetor> others are just strings <jo-erlend_> but.. Have you seen the answer from James Henstridge? <pavolzetor> I can do it as key and json strng <pavolzetor> but I would like to use structure <pavolzetor> yep <pavolzetor> not helping <pavolzetor> I get same error <jo-erlend_> can you provide some more details about the code? Might be easier to understand. <pavolzetor> I haven;t uploaded it to lp, coz it is not even in alpha <pavolzetor> but I will psot it on pastebin <jo-erlend_> better on AskUbuntu... :) <jo-erlend_> or if you link alexanderlisa@example.com. <pavolzetor> http://paste.ubuntu.com/898291/ <pavolzetor> is it clearer? <jo-erlend_> it fails on line 18 in that example? <pavolzetor> nono <pavolzetor> this is just structure <pavolzetor> @dbus.service.method(interface, <pavolzetor> in_signature='', out_signature='a{sv}') <pavolzetor> def GetFeeds(self): <jo-erlend_> I meant real code. The structure looks good. <pavolzetor> return return self.rss.get_feeds() <pavolzetor> this is method called <pavolzetor> it is quite big <pavolzetor> I can post it <pavolzetor> hold sec <jo-erlend_> post it on AskUbuntu? <pavolzetor> http://ubuntuone.com/1os0eMHfnQgrB6kUnxfRZk <pavolzetor> key point start at line 87 <jo-erlend_> return return? <jo-erlend_> line 90. That looks a little suspicious. <pavolzetor> sorry <pavolzetor> it is just typo <pavolzetor> not problem reported <pavolzetor> when I run my automated tests <pavolzetor> I always get error <pavolzetor> to message with signature a{sv}: <type 'exceptions.TypeError'>: Expected a string or unicode object <pavolzetor> but I have no lcue what signature to use <pavolzetor> I have googled, but no result <pavolzetor> I will supply it as strng and fix it later, thanks anyways #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-27 <khalid> hello. can i use lazarus to develop app for ubuntu? <khalid> i come from delphi background and i find lazarus is very similar to delphi <aw1231> hello <aw1231> I was wondering where I could find out where my application is in the pending review queue. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-28 <jalcine> mhall119: your work paid off! <jalcine> d-u.com has some shiny docs on Unity :) <mhall119> jalcine: I know, and unity.u.c is getting some now :) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-29 <Chrislejohn> Hello world <dmj> Woot! The Ubuntu App submission process is quite painless. <pavolzetor> hi <pavolzetor> how can I make 2 branches in one project? <pavolzetor> I would like to have <pavolzetor> floaty/service <pavolzetor> floaty/client <pavolzetor> or do I need to have it as <pavolzetor> floaty-service <pavolzetor> and floaty-client? <pavolzetor> thans <pavolzetor> tanks <pavolzetor> but in project page <pavolzetor> you can have only one branch <commandoline> pavolzetor: do you just want to separate code, or also bugs, blueprints etc.? <pavolzetor> just code <pavolzetor> to have 2 separate logs of changes <pavolzetor> bugs can be in mixed <pavolzetor> I will package it also separated <commandoline> well, packaging is separate from this :) <pavolzetor> I see <pavolzetor> but I think it could be sueful to have 2 logs <commandoline> then you can just push your code to two different locations, e.g.: <commandoline> lp:~branchowner/projectname/client <commandoline> and <pavolzetor> gonig to toilet, be rgiht back :) <commandoline> lp:~branchowner/projectname/service <commandoline> the disadvantage of that is that you can only link one branch to a series, but that's the closest to what you want if you register one project. <pavolzetor> okay <pavolzetor> back <pavolzetor> sorry <pavolzetor> hmm <pavolzetor> but with this approach I cannot have releases right? <pavolzetor> like <pavolzetor> 0.1 branch <pavolzetor> 0.2 <pavolzetor> and so on <pavolzetor> Series <commandoline> well, you can register multiple series of course. One for the client, one for the service. <commandoline> But that's not really where they're meant for <commandoline> registering two projects might be the better solution here, I think. <pavolzetor> I see <pavolzetor> so when I will register 2 projects <pavolzetor> can I have one PPA for them? <commandoline> PPA's are associated to a team or person, as far as I know. <pavolzetor> hmm <commandoline> you can use one team for multiple projects, that's no problem. I do that myself for a few projects... <pavolzetor> Thanks <commandoline> so then you can also share the PPA <commandoline> you're welcome :) <pavolzetor> I just think, if it is okay to have 2 projects <pavolzetor> you know <pavolzetor> I mean it will be harder to manage <pavolzetor> eveything twice :) <pavolzetor> okay I am going to make 2 projects <pavolzetor> it is quite hard to start with development <commandoline> Two projects is a bit harder to set up, but as soon as it's all running it's not that much extra work anymore. <pavolzetor> https://launchpad.net/floaty-service <pavolzetor> https://launchpad.net/floaty <pavolzetor> is this okay? <commandoline> yep, looks ok to me :) <pavolzetor> I am going to read what file structure should be an packaging #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-03-30 <pavolzetor> hi, me again <pavolzetor> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/99087263/floaty_0.1-0ubuntu1_0.1-0ubuntu2.diff.gz <pavolzetor> should I use diacritics in my name? <commandoline> close to zero packaging experience, but according to this thread, non-ascii chars are allowed: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=160827 <ubot2> Debian bug 160827 in debian-policy "Standardize syntax of the name in the Maintainer control field" [Wishlist,Open] <commandoline> I would expect that file to need to be UTF-8 encoded like most files... <commandoline> like it is now btw. My browser switched it to the wrong (Western) set :( <pavolzetor> so it is okay <pavolzetor> uff :D <pavolzetor> but <pavolzetor> https://launchpad.net/~floaty-devs/+archive/ppa/+packages <pavolzetor> if you display details <pavolzetor> Changelog <pavolzetor> and there is my name without diacritics <pavolzetor> but in changelog file it is with <pavolzetor> and another question <pavolzetor> why has it only i386 arch? <commandoline> maybe that's launchpad then, removing the diacritics. It's weird though, I see no reason for that and it's even a bit hard to do :P <commandoline> ah, it's python? <commandoline> then there's no need for a 64 bit version, since it's interpreted <commandoline> doesn't the 'Architecture: all' line specify that in the control file? <pavolzetor> I have it 'all' in control file <pavolzetor> but on launchpad, I got i386 <commandoline> yes, that's where I got it from, I downloaded your tarball :) <pavolzetor> should I report bug about diacritics? <pavolzetor> this is my first ppa :D <pavolzetor> but i googled <pavolzetor> nothing found <commandoline> hmm, no, looks like 'all' really means 'all'. It does for one of the Ubuntu packages I checked... (a python program) <pavolzetor> an yo usend me a link|? <pavolzetor> the link? <commandoline> of course <pavolzetor> thanks <commandoline> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/openteacher/2.2.1-1/+files/openteacher_2.2.1-1.debian.tar.gz <pavolzetor> it is quite steep learning curve, if you do not use quickly <commandoline> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/openteacher is the launchpad page... <pavolzetor> so it is probably by default <pavolzetor> if architecture is ALL, then just pick i386 <pavolzetor> since it does not matter <pavolzetor> in python <pavolzetor> anyway <pavolzetor> do you suggest use distutils? <pavolzetor> or which tool to build some structure required by deb pkg <pavolzetor> I know quickly uses it <commandoline> there I can't help you, as I said, my packaging experience is minimal too ;) <commandoline> and it's a bit late here, so I'm leaving, good luck. :) <pavolzetor> see you, thanks #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-03-01 <odra> :/ <odra> Well it just pastes from the clipboard. <odra> That is what it does. <odra> I don't think I need to spell it out in the menu do I? <odra> Like file -> paste from the clipboard <JanC> don't worry, Gtk/Qt/etc. will usually do what you expect <odra> Yes I was able to paste from the clipboard. <odra> Now I'm trying to check if a pasted text is an URI <JanC> (just wanted to say that the copy/paste concept in X is more powerful than just the basics that you usually use...) <stqn> I thought it was a pictures viewer <stqn> file->paste makes no sense to me <stqn> edit->paste would make more sense, but not in a viewer :) <odra> It is a pictures viewer :( <odra> I can't put it in edit->paste because it can't edit files, therefore there is no edit menu <stqn> makes sense <stqn> so what does file->paste do? :) <odra> stqn: It shows whatever is in the clipboard <odra> If it's an image it shows the image. <odra> If it's URI it loads the URI into an image and shows it. <odra> If it's text it checks it it starts with http, https or ftp and loads it. <stqn> ah ok <stqn> nice <stqn> good night #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-03-02 <Eblis> Does anyone have links to monetization of Ubuntu apps? <wytsa> hello all <wytsa> have a question for you guys <wytsa> is there some setting in 'quickly' that would prevent a person from editing a label for anything when in design mode? <commandoline> wytsa: I don't think so, quickly is meant to be used by developers only, and why restrict them? <commandoline> 17:58:06 - wytsa: i have installed it and i have been trying to go through the getting started tut <commandoline> when i get to the 'edit the label' for tool buttons, and yes it does it for everything else i have checked, it does not allow it <commandoline> so im trying to figure out what i did wrong in the setup or whatever <commandoline> <- lets keep the discussion in the channel. <wytsa> np sorry <wytsa> i had someone yesterday that only wanted to talk out of channel <commandoline> well, this way others with more quickly experience can help :) <wytsa> again np <commandoline> because I'm afraid I don't know this detail. Not a quickly user myself. <wytsa> ahh <wytsa> im trying to get into app dev atm <wytsa> and was pointed at quickly since i know a bit of python <wytsa> i can work with java but i have no real exp with GUIs <stqn> IMO python is too slow, but thatâs what canonical choseâ¦ I guess they wanted to lower the barrier to entry <wytsa> so trying to find a way to easly build them <wytsa> but anyway the main problem i have atm is that i can not edit any 'label' when editing in glade <commandoline> wytsa: a guess: it seems like those buttons and actions are linked in some way? (Just started glade for the first time ever, I'm a Qt fan :P) <commandoline> maybe if you update the action and link it in the right way, the text will appear? (again, completely guessing) <wytsa> the problem is the step im on for that is befor i even need to code anything for the button <wytsa> other than going through the setup for the button <wytsa> FYI im a student at western oregon uni <wytsa> trying to get back on my feet with programming <wytsa> ok sorry to do this but i have run out of time and need to log to get a few things done around here, i will be back later to check back #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-03-03 <odraencode> :| <odraencode> Should I develop in python 3? <wytsa> ok back for a bit <zyal> Hello! can anyone help me? <zyal> its about glade + python development <wytsa> i am still having the issue with quickly, it would seem that glade will not allow me to edit labels for anything when trying to make a UI <wytsa> in the design mode i can make buttons but cant edit the labels for them <zyal> quickly is a gui editor? <wytsa> using quickly design <wytsa> the gui editor <wytsa> glade <zyal> oh <zyal> im just using glade <zyal> the one that came with the glade package <wytsa> can you point me to the one you use? <zyal> i just install glade <zyal> and run glade <zyal> when I hit the about section it says glade <wytsa> ahh <zyal> im pretty sure you have it if your installde the pkf <zyal> pkg* <zyal> got it? <wytsa> i got it as far as i can tell <zyal> niice <zyal> what are you making? <wytsa> trying to give a game i made in class a gui so it looks ok <wytsa> its a little arena style game <wytsa> kinda crappy since it only runs in the idle window and is just txt menues <wytsa> but im trying to improve it so its something decent atleast <wytsa> with the non default glade it allows me to edit labels but with the one that comes packaged with quickly it does not <wytsa> gurrrrrrrr <zyal> whats the diff?? <wytsa> glade 3.8.0 will let me edit but not open the 'quickly' made files <wytsa> glade 3.14.0 will let me open the files, has some things pre-setup but does not let me edit labels <wytsa> 3.14.0 is the one that comes packaged with quickly <zyal> aw shicks <zyal> wait for a dev I guess ;_; <zyal> unless you start over <zyal> on the new one <wytsa> arg <wytsa> if i can get the new one to work like the old one then i would have np <odraencode> UGH <odraencode> Does anybody even make application in python using GObjects? <shelbydz> hey all, I'm trying to get QT Creator installed on my computer. It's running, but I'm missing the option to create a QT UI project from the New Project menu. <shelbydz> hey all, I'm trying to get QT Creator installed on my computer. It's running, but I'm missing the option to create a QT UI project from the New Project menu. #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-03-04 <odra> Hey <zyal> clear <zyal> omgash this chanell is so dead <zyal> any one herea glade + pythone xpert? <odra> zyal: Not me. <zyal> Arr.. <zyal> Do you code guis? <odra> Kind of :D <odra> zyal: They look like this though http://i.imgur.com/P6NRFVT.png <zyal> whats wrong with that? <zyal> What do you use? <odra> Python <odra> But i don't use Glade, I add the widgets in __init__() <zyal> Does that have some apparent advatages? <odra> I don't think so. <odra> But if I had to name one I would say that you would never have problems with Glade <zyal> hmm okeh =D <odra> Hey non-existent people :D <odra> Still nobody here I see. <odra> Still noone here. <stqn> noone. <odra> OMG SOMEONE TALKED <odra> Phew, that scared me for a moment. <odra> What do people normally use with gtk for application preferences? <stqn> what do you mean? <odra> Exactly what I said. <odra> What do people use to save/load preferences in gtk? <stqn> odra: I think Gtk is a library to create GUIs, saving preferences has nothing to do with it. But maybe Iâm wrong. #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-03-05 <bbj_za> ave all <odra> Hey people :D <stqn> Hi <odra> stqn: I think you are the only person here ever. #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-03-06 <odra> Salutations, silent non-existential beings of #ubuntu-app-devel. <stqn> Should I answer again? :P <odra> stqn: You are one of the two people in this chat that ever say anything. <ae0000> app dev on ubuntu - there seems to be lots of different ways to go about it.... i can see how this is a good thing... but in some ways its a bad thing. what are you people (who are making apps) using? <ae0000> the mobile side of things seems to be pushing qml etc. while desktop apps seem to push python etc.... very confusing as to which way i should sink resources into <stqn> ae0000: there are probably technologies best suited to what you want to do <ae0000> fair enough... i'd like to make an app that works on mobile / tablet and to a lesser extent desktop. <ae0000> i'd prefer to use python.. .but will suck up qml etc. if needs be <ae0000> any suggestions? <stqn> not really, sorry :) <odra> ae0000: I'm making a image viewer in PyGObject with python3 and gtk3.2 :) <stqn> I program in C, C++ (when Iâm forced to), and bash
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