#edubuntu 2006-04-01 <MornHyland> Hello <MornHyland> I am curious, if I already ubuntu installed is it is easy to add repositories for edubuntu and get just add the educational software? <Burgundavia> MornHyland: yes <bimberi> hi MornHyland, edubuntu uses the same repositories, to get the additional packages install the edubuntu-desktop metapackage <MornHyland> bimberi: cool, so I don't need to add a new repository <MornHyland> that makes it easy <MornHyland> I want to show the people in the math dept the great tools <MornHyland> My congrats goes out to the developers, it is a great distribution <MornHyland> I'm a convert from a long time with Mandrake, and others before that <bimberi> MornHyland: yes, i was a bit of a distro-hopper myself before ubuntu came along :) <Burgundavia> MornHyland: ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and edubuntu share the same repos <MornHyland> Burgudavia: yeah, that is great actually <MornHyland> bimberi: I have been a linux user for too long <bimberi> MornHyland: too long? never :) <MornHyland> bimberi: since 1993 <MornHyland> before there really were distros <MornHyland> I heard about it over fidonet <bimberi> MornHyland: wow, well good to hear that *ubuntu is keeping the fire burning for you <MornHyland> I was becoming frustrated with Mandrake <MornHyland> and ubuntu has given me a new lease <MornHyland> Something I would really like to see is better notetaking/journaling software for class notes on a tablet pc <MornHyland> as a student <Burgundavia> there are a few, not packaged <Burgundavia> xournal and gournal <MornHyland> I almost had the wacom tablet working for a moment before a kernel upgrade broke it <MornHyland> Maybe this summer when I am not so bogged down with classes I will work on something <gboutwell> I'm looking for a home distro to install for some fun education programs for my 2 boys - 4 yrs (preschool) and 8 yrs (2nd grade but doing really well in school) <HedgeMage> gboutwell: my son likes edubuntu :) He's a bit younger, though (3) <gboutwell> :) <bimberi> gboutwell: as do my 2 sons (8 and 6) - although it's hard to get them out of the Games menu and into the more Educational packages :) <gboutwell> :) <gboutwell> Yeah well I have that problem now with Windows... them playing games instead of doing educational stuff. :) <bimberi> of course you and i were never like that when we were that age :P <gboutwell> I wasn't ever good at computer games really. Only game I ever got close to winning was Carmen San Diego... Mostly cause it was just looking up in the reference <gboutwell> So I moved on and tried computer programming... been enjoying that ever since! <bimberi> :) <gboutwell> Of course I didn't get into computers till I was quite a bit older than my oldest <bimberi> gboutwell: oh yes, but "playing games instead of doing educational stuff" has wider applicability than just computers :) <gboutwell> True, True <gboutwell> It'll be interesting to see if they take aliking to Linux or just keep going back to Windows <gboutwell> Is there a list of packages included in edubuntu or comparisons with like Debian-Jr or Debian-Edu? <bimberi> gboutwell: there is this (although not strictly a list) - http://www.edubuntu.org/tour.html <gboutwell> Yeah.. I alexanderlisa@example.com. <gboutwell> It's pretty good. I especially liked the GCompris section * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <root> it seems I've managed to get here...is anything exciting going on at the moment? <root> ooops be back in sec... <root> exit <jeff_> back... <jeff_> unimatrix9 do you mean for configuration? <RasCaL> I am having big problems with the install :( <RasCaL> can anyone help? <RasCaL> I downloaded the 386 install ISO via torrent <RasCaL> burned the ISO and installed <RasCaL> 50% through the install it ejects the disc and reboots... <Burgundavia> I would check the md5sum on the iso and then reburn <RasCaL> starts installing the packages and then says some libraries are no good <RasCaL> Burgundavia I am done with the disc though? <RasCaL> you are saying the disc could be bad? <Burgundavia> yes <RasCaL> the kernal is fine it is running now <Burgundavia> or your cdrom <RasCaL> no GUI <RasCaL> oops kernel <RasCaL> no gnome <RasCaL> I ran apt-get update <RasCaL> the apt-get upgrade <RasCaL> then* <RasCaL> but still no gnome <Burgundavia> what sort of install did you do? <RasCaL> I pressed enter <RasCaL> standard? <Burgundavia> hmm <RasCaL> it is active I mean the update and upgrade both got new packages and updated the database <RasCaL> is there any way to fix this without being forced to download from your servers? <RasCaL> I mean since it is half running <RasCaL> I won't be getting it with bit-torrent next time LOL <Burgundavia> yes <Burgundavia> bittorrent is not the issue <RasCaL> I only burned it @ 4x <RasCaL> that is my lowest setting <RasCaL> same drive that I burned my other 2 Edubuntu ISO's <RasCaL> they worked flawlessly <RasCaL> but they have been 'stolen' by my brothers :( <RasCaL> is the fix remote somehow using apt-get by chance? <RasCaL> I ask because I know that is one thing that works :) <Burgundavia> it is probably pretty easy to fix your system, but sadly I am really busy right now :( <RasCaL> understand :) <RasCaL> anyone else maybe have a guess? <Burgundavia> bimberi: ^ <highvoltage> RasCaL: does the md5sum of your burned CD, cd image, and md5sum on the website match? <bimberi> huh, what was the question? <highvoltage> bimberi: edubuntu cd doesn't work <highvoltage> RasCaL: what does it do wrong again when you boot from it? <bimberi> ah, ubotu has a factoid pointing to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VerifyIsoHowto <bimberi> (which probably says what highvoltage said :) ) <jfc> Hi <spacey> janeW: ping <janeW> spacey: pong <spacey> did you read pygi's mail? <spacey> i wanted to postpone the meeting a little <spacey> Mario <spacey> uh <spacey> he wanted <spacey> but its ok with me personally <spacey> :P <janeW> spacey: did he send to me? <janeW> or the mailing list? <spacey> he said he mailed you <spacey> personal <janeW> I am still working through personal mail... <spacey> Mario Danic <spacey> :) <spacey> ok <janeW> but I don;t see anything from him... * janeW checks again... <spacey> anyway he requested if the meeting could be postponed to 16:00 UTC <janeW> oops, it goot deleted in my spam-swoop. His mail looks JUST like spam! * janeW reads it <spacey> :D <JaneW> hrm, 18:00 is really not a good time for me <JaneW> esp after starting that day with a 4am meeting <spacey> :P <JaneW> spacey: is he planning on helping you? <spacey> yup <JaneW> great <spacey> he already helped me prepare for the meeting <JaneW> look I am happy that you can get it on track <JaneW> I think you are more realistic and organised about it <JaneW> my goal is to make sure we get *something* finished <JaneW> which will be useful <highvoltage> good morning <spacey> we put up some drafts at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu <JaneW> and my opinion is it should be aimed at users, or low-level tech ppl trying to set up a lab * mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage] by highvoltage <spacey> JaneW: mine too :) <JaneW> advanced users know how to find info and help <JaneW> spacey: yay, I am glad we agree <JaneW> I alsp agree about keeping it generic and putting specifics in the back <highvoltage> JaneW: wasn't that decided at the last meeting? or is it up for discusion once again? *sigh* <spacey> and for advanced topics you would only start duplicating ubuntu docs anyway <JaneW> highvoltage: es I am pretty sure it;s agreed <JaneW> spacey: so I don;t think I am crucial to the meeting <spacey> JaneW: ok <JaneW> unless you need me to volunteer for stuff? ;) <JaneW> spacey: I'd like to read the transcript after though <spacey> JaneW: well your welcome if you hav etime :) <highvoltage> cookbook cookies :) <JaneW> spacey: I think the cook book need your no-nonsense, take-charge approach <JaneW> it's what's been lacking * JaneW hands spacey 'TheWhip'(TM) <spacey> :D <highvoltage> :) <spacey> JaneW: can you reply on the agenda and give some points we should know. For example the deadline stuff <JaneW> spacey: sure <spacey> then i'll postphone the meeting to 16:00 UTC <spacey> i'll sent it to list and fridge-devel <spacey> send <spacey> highvoltage: you can make 1600UTC btw? :) <spacey> would be cool <highvoltage> spacey: yes <jfc> Excuse me, I've a problem, I think it's a bug : ltsp-server on a amd64 server generate /opt/ltsp/amd64 instead of /i386 <highvoltage> spacey: oosh, no <highvoltage> that's thursday, right? <highvoltage> i have a guitar lesson thursday evening. <RasCaL> sorry I was at the other computer <RasCaL> I just got done burning the iso I downloaded from the website <RasCaL> will let you all know soon <RasCaL> been a big mess :( <highvoltage> jfc: that's normal, the chroot that gets generates by default is the same as the one you installed, there is a way around it, i suggest you hang around a bit, ogra knows how to do that <spacey> highvoltage: ok <highvoltage> spacey: i should actually be back home just 15 min after the meeting starts, so i'll be there for the latter part <spacey> highvoltage: ok thats nice :) <JaneW> spacey: your agenda looks good <JaneW> spacey: you may want to add something about assigning roles and responsibilities <JaneW> who is doing what etc <spacey> JaneW: ok, good point <JaneW> spacey: also are we going to worry about translations (yet), or just focus on getting it done and then look at stuff like that? <spacey> JaneW: translations would be nice but I don't see how that could be ready for dapper <spacey> but its definitely a document which should be translated <JaneW> spacey: ok let's get eng finished first and tackle translations as phase 2 <spacey> yup <spacey> i think it should have high quality <ogra> jfc, thats not a bug ... remove it (sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/amd64) and create a i386 chroot ... (sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386) <ogra> jfc, i'd let it build a i386 chroot if i could ;) <jfc> thank's a lot <ogra> sadly there is no space for two architectures on the CD <ogra> so i have only amd64 packages available... <jfc> but in the synaptic package list i don't see any linux-image 386 ? <spacey> JaneW: what kind of roles and stuff do you recommend for the cookbook? something like, I use the whip to make sure everyone is making progress and is in time, X checks quality control, stuff like that? <JaneW> spacey: well either assign each chapter to a diff person <ogra> jfc, the --arch i386 will tell ltsp-build-client to only use i386 packages, it generates its own sources.list then <JaneW> spacey: or have one writer and one reviewer <JaneW> or a writer, editor and acceptor etc <spacey> ok, i'll think about that <JaneW> some how spread the load, and make sure if responsibility is assigned that that person has an understanding of what is expected of them <JaneW> and then regularly check that they are delievering on that <spacey> k:) * highvoltage pests toxictoads a bit more for wallpaper <iceman> hi all... <iceman> am running kubuntu "hoary" and would like to try a dist-upgrade to edubuntu, is it possible and how? <ogra> you are aware that edubuntu uses gnome as desktop ? <iceman> yup, dont mind that... <ogra> if you only want the desktop parts, upgrade your system to breezy and install edubuntu-desktop <ogra> the server part needs additional setup if you do it this way <ogra> (and if you even want ltsp or schooltool on your machine) <iGotNoTime> Morning all :) <Pygi> JaneW: around? ^_^ <JaneW> Pygi: hi, yes <Pygi> JaneW: you got my mail? <Pygi> JaneW: The one about meeting/Edubuntu cookbook? <JaneW> Pygi: yes, spacey has changed the time and posted a new message to the mailing list. <Pygi> yup, saw it ;) great then... <ogra> make sure the fridge is updated <JaneW> ogra: ah good point <ogra> else i'll miss it ;) my evolution updates its calendar dynamically from there ;) <Pygi> ogra: hehe ;) <JaneW> ogra: message sent <Pygi> JaneW: any idea on how many people are interested in the cookbook? <ogra> every edubuntu user ? <Pygi> ogra: ok, wrong question ;) in contributing to cookbook ;) <ogra> oh, a handfull have spoken up already iirc <Pygi> ah,k * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <cbx33> hi all <ogra> hi <LaserJock> hi <cbx33> i work i na school and we just started a LUG....we going to do a podcast and are looking to interview alexanderlisa@example.com.....:p <cbx33> brb <iGotNoTime> Does anyone here use SATA? <iGotNoTime> cbx33, you can interview me, but I warn you I am new here :P <Yagisan> iGotNoTime: yes <iGotNoTime> Yagisan, can you really, honestlynotice a difference in speed? <iGotNoTime> I kinda want to put my nw motherboards ports to us :) <Yagisan> iGotNoTime: none whatsoever. The disk platters are still the slowest part of the drive. <iGotNoTime> ok :) <iGotNoTime> I appreciate the honesty! <Yagisan> iGotNoTime: I have to SATA and 1 PATA drive (200GB Segate 7200RMP 8M) in a RAID 5 <Yagisan> s/to/2 <Yagisan> there was no price difference, ans no SATA optical drives at the time <Yagisan> s/ans/and <Yagisan> iGotNoTime: the one thing I like is the thiner cables. Good for airflow <iGotNoTime> It actually looks like SATA may soon be cheaper <iGotNoTime> yes true :) <Yagisan> moy box could fry an egg some days <iGotNoTime> they have been cheaper, just do't know if it is only temporary for promoting them <Yagisan> agh - I can't type at 5am <iGotNoTime> my drives have serious heat problems, I just got a couple new fans <iGotNoTime> the case is fine, but the drives do not have enough flow and burn to the touch a few days ago <Yagisan> yep. 55C for my SATA (but they are in adjacent 5/25 bays) vs 40 for the PATA. 3 fan 5/25 cooler in front of the SATA <iGotNoTime> if the new fans don't help I may actually be forced to use water (which I normally would say is a waste of money). <Yagisan> the air out the back of the case is very hot and dry <iGotNoTime> nice layout I may try something like that <Yagisan> don't forget to clean the fans and fileters every 3-6 months <iGotNoTime> wait your SATA runs more hot?! <Yagisan> they are rather close to each other <Yagisan> about a 1cm gap <iGotNoTime> ahhh, like mine :( <Yagisan> my full tower case is, well full <iGotNoTime> you sure can cook eggs on that! I know :( <iGotNoTime> I grabbed them :( <iGotNoTime> I always thought wate was like a gimmick, but I realize it may be the only option <iGotNoTime> water* <Yagisan> I've decided to move my box to a place with more airflow <Yagisan> and less direct sunlight <iGotNoTime> that's a good idea too. I have been pretty good about cleaning it out, but it seems to just not be enough lately <iGotNoTime> I have 1 optical and 7 HDD's. 4 of them are almost touching :( <Yagisan> I have 3 optical, 3 hdd <iGotNoTime> in fact they might even be touching <iGotNoTime> LOL <Yagisan> 1 optical seems to be dying from the heat, and it is the furthest from the heat! <Yagisan> it was also the newest. <iGotNoTime> works like that! Anything to throw you off :P <Yagisan> the optical next to the egg cookers, I mean the SATA drives burns great <iGotNoTime> You use SATA on opticals?? <Yagisan> no <iGotNoTime> very cool <iGotNoTime> ohhh <iGotNoTime> :D <Yagisan> ahh the joys of rsync not working <Yagisan> spacey: you here ? <spacey> ola <Yagisan> spacey: thanks <spacey> for what <Yagisan> spacey: I think I stuffed my rsync stuff up <spacey> ok :P <Yagisan> spacey: turning up before I go to bed! <spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~yagisan/ <spacey> still empty :p <spacey> just finished dinner <Yagisan> spacey: I copied a working script to the server, but it doesn't seem to work when I run it from users.lichtsnel.nl <Yagisan> spacey: any idea what I've done wrong ? <Yagisan> spacey: script is eselupdate.sh in my ~ <spacey> i think i know why <Yagisan> spacey: and port 873 is open .. <spacey> because it doesn't allow connections to the outside <Yagisan> oh <Yagisan> spacey: how should I rsync over then ? <spacey> over ssh <Yagisan> spacey: :( that didn't work either, so I closed the port. <spacey> you can simply copy it from your server to mine over ssh with rsync <spacey> only thing you cannot do is connect to the outside from my box <spacey> only port 80 is open from inside to outside <spacey> makes sense?:) <spacey> Yagisan: Seveas is quite succesful at it: http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~seveas <Yagisan> spacey: thanks. I've only played with rsync for a few hours now <highvoltage> goodnight, #edununtu! <Yagisan> spacey: I think I got it working now <Yagisan> night all <cbx33> who heads up development of edubuntu <Bluekuja> jonathan <Bluekuja> do u need something <cbx33> Bluekuja, do you have an email address? <Bluekuja> to know? <Bluekuja> yeah of course <cbx33> well, I work at a school and we just started our very own LUG <Bluekuja> oo very good <cbx33> we're hoping to start a PODCast for beginners in linux <Bluekuja> im working with jon <cbx33> and I thought might be nice to interview someone over at edubuntu <Bluekuja> nice <cbx33> Bluekuja, well you might make a good choice then <cbx33> what d'ya thik <Bluekuja> yeah,thats a nice idea <Ian_> hi all <cbx33> hey I <flint> /msg NickServ IDENTIFY #edubuntu 2006-04-02 <bob_> anyone got any idea why gnome wont load on the server computer? all the clients work fine... <Sergi0> what did u try to start it up? <bob_> just startx <bob_> the server stopped booting into gnome a while ago anyway, its a bit odd <bob_> it always usde to work... <Sergi0> bob_: what error u get <bob_> nothing, it just freezes with a flashing cursor in the topleft <Sergi0> hmm <bob_> im not sure why it doesnt boot into GDM any more either <Sergi0> try restarting gdm, wat happens then <bob_> it wont load gdm i mean <bob_> it doesnt get that far <Sergi0> check /var/log/Xlo-- <bob_> the latest one? <Sergi0> hmm probaly Xlog0.log <bob_> k <bob_> am i looking for anything in particular? <bob_> looks alright really... <bob_> no obvious errors <Sergi0> hmm <Sergi0> im not sure where the probem could occure <bob_> it is pretty odd... <Sergi0> try this for testing X: <Sergi0> type 'X :1.0' or just 'X', kill the X with crtl-alt-backspace, so u can test the basic X, without any other software running on it <Sergi0> any luck? <bob_> fatal server error: unrecognised option 1:0 <bob_> oh i missed a colon, sorry <Sergi0> did't u forget the : X :1.0 :) <Sergi0> also try 'X' <bob_> nope, same proble with both <bob_> just a black screen with a cursor <Sergi0> thats weird <bob_> yeah youd think itd whine about something... <Sergi0> nah, probaly not <bob_> ok :p it normally quits with some weird error code <Sergi0> there is never a weird error code <Sergi0> ! <bob_> i mean it sometimes says "such and such is not supported?" or something <Sergi0> :) its ok <Sergi0> whats ur graphic card <bob_> not sure <bob_> ang on <bob_> ati 3d rage 2+ <bob_> i mean its worked before... <bob_> some random dapper update i think messed it up <Sergi0> did u upgrade to another kernel? <bob_> possibly, yeah <Sergi0> with nvidia for example u need to configure ur graphic driver for that kernel <Sergi0> change ur xorg.conf file <Sergi0> or reboot with the old kernel, if u still got it <bob_> how do i do either of those things? <Sergi0> how did u setup ur ati drivers before? <bob_> hmm i dont think i did. i mean it was just a disk install i might have dpkg-reconfigured xserver-xorg at some point but <bob_> its probabyl a kernel thing <Sergi0> u could reconfi ut xserver-xorg package again, but probaly u will have bad graphics, but for server its ok i guess <bob_> i did it earlier <bob_> doesnt wrk <bob_> :( <Sergi0> it should <bob_> ypu just does the same thing <Sergi0> vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf under "device" check the "Driver" string, change it to something like this "Driver" "vesa" <Sergi0> is the monitor changed btw? could be a problem too <Sergi0> but i have to go, good luck <bob_> nope <bob_> ok, thanks :) <bob_> have a good day <bimberi> bob_: if the vesa driver doesn't work, try deleting ~/.Xauthority and ~/.ICEauthority (issues with those files can hause X hangs) <bimberi> *cause <bob_> hey bimberi, doesnt work :( <bob_> what is vesa? i put it back to ATI <bob_> argh, ive been on the internet too long, my brain is leaking, try again tomorrow... <Sergi0> good luck bob_ <thedarkener> Hey all <Sergi0> hello <thedarkener> What do you guys think about hosting a 10-client LAN with Edubuntu on a dual PIII 500MHz (1GHz total), 2GB RAM? Will it be comfortable? <thedarkener> Regular IDE hard disk <thedarkener> 1GB LAN for server, 100MBit on workstations <Sergi0> i didnt try edubuntu for network config, but i think it should be no problem, looks all fine <thedarkener> awesome <thedarkener> =) <thedarkener> I will, hopefully by next weekend, start working on my first edubuntu thin client site =) <Sergi0> just make sure for ur processor u use the correct kernel <thedarkener> that'll be on the cd boot commandline to choose the kernel? <Sergi0> nice, im just trying the stuff out. maybe a school project orso, <Sergi0> nah, just pick one after the install, then when its real important <Sergi0> om out, good luck <thedarkener> ok thanks Sergi0 <Sergi0> ok <thedarkener> Anyone else? How does this hardware look for all 10 clients logged in with Firefox, OO? <iGotNoTime> HedgeMage are you in by chance? I am having some problems and as a last resort came in to ask for help after like 3 hours. :( <iGotNoTime> I just got a new motherboard so I thought a reinstall would be best.... <iGotNoTime> I installed and some packages couldn't be loaded during install for some odd reason... <iGotNoTime> luckily though I do have gnome and a GUI <iGotNoTime> however Python libraries are messed up <iGotNoTime> Synaptic will not work <iGotNoTime> niether will the Gnome file browser so I can't easily navigate to find files <iGotNoTime> I had a warning about E:/ being broken <HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: I am now <iGotNoTime> but the dpkg --confgure blah blah wouldn't work <HedgeMage> what's up? * HedgeMage reads the backlog <iGotNoTime> no problem getting a drink while you ponder :) <HedgeMage> hmm that is really odd <iGotNoTime> the worst thing is the synaptic <iGotNoTime> I had to connect to IRC with Gaim because I can't even install an IRC client <iGotNoTime> I don't even have an FTP client to upload you the copied lines of errors LOL <HedgeMage> :( <iGotNoTime> major thing though seems to say broken packages <iGotNoTime> I can't find any sort of auto update option <HedgeMage> nothing borked until the hardware change? <iGotNoTime> yes but was a big hardware change, so I formatted and started fresh <iGotNoTime> I am happy that the GUI is on or I would really be stuck <iGotNoTime> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem. <iGotNoTime> that is a very popular one with me today <iGotNoTime> but when I try to do that I get this: <iGotNoTime> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:191: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed. <iGotNoTime> Aborted <iGotNoTime> I assume if that dpkg --configure would work everything would be fixed on it's own <iGotNoTime> but can't do it due to the above error <iGotNoTime> any ideas? anyone? * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <iGotNoTime> I'll just try getting help later on tonight :) <iGotNoTime> I am gonna reboot <JaneW> spacey: ping <JaneW> oops he's not even here, nm * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <highvoltage> ogra: i love the new edubuntu splash screen! <ogra> thanks, i personally find it a bit dark ... <ogra> note that we might get a different one from the art studio ... might not be final <highvoltage> well, it splashed by very quickly, so i didn't notice it being to dark. <ogra> in case anyone is intrested in testing, the next CD build should be ready for flight 6 testing ... * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <bob_> hey, my edubuntu server is playing up, X wont load. how can i backtrack a kernel? <highvoltage> bob_: do you have any reason to believe that it's a kernel problem? <bob_> hmm well im sure it stopped working after a dist-upgrade <highvoltage> if you log in from a console, and type 'startx', what error message do you get? <bob_> you dont get an error <bob_> it just hangs with a black screen and a cursor in the top left <highvoltage> it's possible that the dist-upgrade didn't complete <bob_> yeah? ooh <highvoltage> hmmm :/ <bob_> the clients work fine, its weird... <highvoltage> i haven't seen that before <highvoltage> the clients have their own chroot <bob_> oh yeah <bob_> any ideas then? how can i fix a broken dist-upgrade? <highvoltage> log in on one of the thin clients, it at least gives you access to your system <highvoltage> log in as your admin user from one of the clients, <highvoltage> and try sudo apt-get dist-upgrade again <bob_> yeah theres people on them :) but ill try and kick someone off <highvoltage> see what it says <highvoltage> heh :) <bob_> ill just do it form a terminal? <bob_> it wants to install 'libbeagle1' and upgrade nautlus <bob_> shall i do it? <highvoltage> i suggest you try that <ogra> hmm, what has libbeagle to do there ? <bob_> seems to have run ok, no errors or anything <bob_> i dont know, what is it? <ogra> its a library for beagle ... <ogra> (beagle is a desktop search engine) <bob_> oh hang on, ive got one x error: "Key <META> added to map for multiple modifiers. Using Mod4 ignoring Mod 1" <bob_> ahh ok <highvoltage> ogra: wow, i would've never guesed :P <ogra> heh <bob_> maybe someone else put it on? <highvoltage> i just tried apt-cache show libbeagle, doesn't find such a package on my system. <ogra> its a universe package <ogra> apt-cache show libbeagle0 <ogra> ;) <highvoltage> W: Unable to locate package libbeagle0 <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/ttf-ubuntu-title-0.1$ apt-cache show libbeagle0 <ogra> Package: libbeagle0 <ogra> Priority: optional <ogra> Section: universe/gnome <ogra> ... <highvoltage> oh, hold on, that's strange, my universe is disabled in sources.list. * highvoltage wonders how that happened <bob_> shall i take it off? <ogra> bob_, is that breezy or dapper <ogra> ? <bob_> dapper <ogra> ah, k <bob_> sorry should have been more specific <ogra> you have to live with breakage from time to time then :) especially with universe packages <ogra> time will fix it :) <bob_> do you think its that thats breaking it then? <ogra> err ... <ogra> moment <bob_> haha dont worry i have faith in that :p id just be nice to know whats wrong so i can report it or something... <ogra> it wants to install libbeagle*1* ??? <bob_> incidentally, it stopped logging into GDM by defualt a little while ago <ogra> sure that wasnt libbeagle0 ? <bob_> if thats related... <bob_> libbeagle0 is there <ogra> <bob_> it wants to install 'libbeagle1' and upgrade nautlus <ogra> are you sure about the name ? <ogra> then its something from a third party repository ... <ogra> and nothing we can help with ... <bob_> ummm <bob_> doh ive done it in a terminal so i cant double check, it was probably right... <bob_> i mean, do you think its that thats breaking it? i dont see how its related to X not working... <ogra> dpkg -l |grep libbeagle <highvoltage> bob_: cat /etc/apt/sources.list <highvoltage> bob_: check for something that doesn't contain 'ubuntu.com' in the URI <highvoltage> or what ogra said :) <ogra> bob_, if you have a broken package that holds back other essential packages from being upgraded, that not unusual <ogra> *thats <bob_> ok only libbeagle0 is there <ogra> good <ogra> so did you do apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade ? <bob_> both <ogra> why both ? <bob_> highvoltage, theres a few in there, shall i comment them all out? i think its been automatix-ed <bob_> well i dist-upgraded to see if it would fix the x problem, highvoltage suggested it :p <ogra> dist-upgrade already does what upgrade does, but does the evil stuff as well ... <bob_> oh i mean <bob_> ive not done it right now, but ive run it today, like <ogra> upgrade == only install upgradeable packages, dont change anything else ... <ogra> dist-upgrade == remove packages if needed, chane essential bits etc <ogra> *change <bob_> yeah i gettit :) i just mean ive run them both today <ogra> ok, if you run startx from a console, does gnome start ? <bob_> nope <ogra> whats the error then ? <bob_> just get a black screen with a frozen cursor <ogra> startx should give very precise errors <bob_> as in, text cursor not X cursor <bob_> it doesnt tell you anything apart from... <ogra> either on the commandline or in the logfiles <bob_> "key <META> added to map for multiple modifiers <bob_> using mod 4, inoring mod 1" <bob_> thats the only error, and X doesnt quit out or anything, it just hangs <LaserJock> ogra: do you know much about squeak? <ogra> thats niot your issue <ogra> LaserJock, only that i missed to package the squeak-image package for us <highvoltage> bob_: you've used automatix? <LaserJock> ogra: ah ok, I was talking quite a bit with some squeak developers about the image issue <bob_> when we were on breezy, yeah <ogra> (but adding the initimage.sh script to squeak-sources should solve it as well) <ogra> bob_, ouch <ogra> have fun reinstalling then <bob_> bit of a mess? <bob_> hahaha <bob_> ive got a number of niggles, maybe a reinstall would sort them... <ogra> automatix f****up isnt easily solvable <highvoltage> bob_: automatix alters your ubuntu system, it's not a standard ubuntu system any more, so upgrades isn't expected to work <ogra> use easyubuntu instead ... it wont break the system <bob_> ahhhh ok <bob_> ill bear it in mind. probably a good idea to avoid universe in general when using beta software, hey? <ogra> universe is fine ... <ogra> just expect breakage from time to time <bob_> hmm ok. <bob_> but you reckon the X problem is coz of automatix? <ogra> usually universe packages dont have any influence on the system stability itself ... <highvoltage> bob_: main will, at some time, also give some breakage on development versions... <ogra> might be ... i refuse to put time into automatix broken systems <bob_> yeah thats cool, i wouldnt mention this if it hadnt been like it for a week or so <bob_> fair enough :) <highvoltage> bob_: but both main and universe are always much safer to use than automatix. automatix is strongly non-recommended. <ogra> this guy caused enough trouble ... i wont put time into his crappy scripts <bob_> ok, cool. but easyubuntu gets the thumbs up? <ogra> yep <bob_> ace <ogra> its developed in a safe manner using the right tools ... <bob_> looks like its time to sort out that home drive and reinstall the system... <ogra> automatix just blindly overwrites half of the worls <ogra> *world <LaserJock> ogra: were you going to work on squeak-image? I think I could make a source package soon if you like. <bob_> shall i use a flight 5 iso? <ogra> LaserJock, that'd be so cool ! <ogra> i'm preparing flight 6 and am particulary busy this week <LaserJock> ogra: k <bob_> is flight 5 the reccomended atm? <LaserJock> well, I went over to #squeak and found out what I needed and there are some source packages floating out there that I can look at. <highvoltage> bob_: i played around with flight5 quite a bit, worked fine fore me. ymmv. <ogra> bob_, yesd <ogra> but flight 6 is due this week :) <bob_> cool :) <bob_> dapper is lovely btw, evreything is working fineeee and lovely (apart from recentness) <highvoltage> bob_: that doesn't count, it's automatix's fault :) <highvoltage> ogra: you should blog something along the lines of 'top 5 reasons why you shouldn't use automatix' :) <bob_> ill let you know if thats what it was when i get this harddrive sorted ;) <ogra> highvoltage, ask Seveas to do that :) <highvoltage> ogra: k :) <Seveas> ogra, I don't blog in english <highvoltage> Seveas: ^^^^^ <ogra> i have my private argument going on with arnieboy on the ubuntu-users ML already <Seveas> so I'm not on planet Ubuntu <ogra> and i dont want to extend it <ogra> Seveas, so start blogging in english then :) * ogra *always* blogs in english ... <highvoltage> tectonic, slashdot, and many other sites promote how wonderful automatix is, it's an epidemic <ogra> at least the five entrys i made in my blg ;) <Seveas> highvoltage, it's a virus <ogra> *blog <highvoltage> every single day i meet someone who used it and it breaked their system <highvoltage> and there seems to be no ubuntu doc i can point them to too tell them it's bad <highvoltage> Seveas: hehe, yeah. <ogra> Seveas, note that i'll fight for closing down the forums gateway again ... <ogra> we dont even have a chance to unsubscribe arnieboy at the moment <Seveas> yes, please <Seveas> the forums are full of crap <highvoltage> forums are breeding grounds for trouble in general, which is why i'm so strongly apposed against a forum for edubuntu <ogra> forums are fine as long as someone knowledgeable cares for them <Seveas> ogra, that's the problem with ubuntuforums.org - clueless people are leading it <ogra> as soon as myths out of missing knowledge start to spread, you are lost <Seveas> IRC generally is a similar trouble hole <highvoltage> the thing is, knowledgable people don't use forums, so it tends to be just clueless (maybe a strong word) people who tend to reply <Seveas> but #ubuntu is refreshingly different because there are knowledgeable people who feel at home there (not meaning myself) <LaserJock> I started out on the forums because I was a Gentoo user and I was used to the Gentoo forums <LaserJock> but I got much less "real" help on ubuntuforums <LaserJock> and there was so much flaming and fighting <LaserJock> so I turned to #ubuntu-motu <LaserJock> and I'm glad I did <ogra> we too :) <LaserJock> thanks ;-) <vandenoever> hello, i am here to promote http://www.vandenoever.info/software/cubetest/ <vandenoever> for edubuntu <vandenoever> it's a great awardwinning game which teaches spatial insight <ogra> vandenoever, is there a gtk version available ? <vandenoever> it's qt3 or qt4 <ogra> hmm <ogra> i'm planning to get rid of KDE and friends in the next release if possible <ogra> it steals to much CD space <vandenoever> ogra: qt3 != kde <vandenoever> qt3 < kde <ogra> yep <ogra> i know and i guess QT will stay, but i'm not sure yet ... <vandenoever> cubetest is not big so it'll fit easily <ogra> could you send your proposal to the mailing list to make more people aware of it <vandenoever> it's also mature <vandenoever> ok what's the address for that? <ogra> its planned to revisit the app selection for the october release, so there are good chances for little helpful apps ;) <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel <vandenoever> thanks! <ogra> :) <ogra> thanks as well :) <LaserJock> ogra: I'm trying to figure out what to name this squeak-image package <LaserJock> ogra: the images of any version can be more or less used with any vm <LaserJock> ogra: so we could have squeak-image3.7 squeak-image3.8 ,etc. <ogra> do you really want different versions ? <ogra> i'd think we only want the basics and leave it to the user/admin to customize it <LaserJock> hmm, let me ask #squeak real quick if there is usefullness in having old images <ogra> since we wont pre-customize the image anyway ... <LaserJock> what I'm saying is you can use the image from almost any version with the vm from almost any version <ogra> yep <LaserJock> so should we provide more than one squeak-image package? <ogra> will put more maintenance work on our sholders ... <ogra> i'd go with the latest that works <LaserJock> yeah <LaserJock> ogra: k <highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu! <Seveas> ogra, did yo get my mail regarding \sh? <ogra> Seveas, yep ... its on TODAYS TODO :) <Seveas> ok <ogra> (so i still have 3h :) ) <Bluekuja> hi ogra :) <Bluekuja> jonathan gone? <ogra> yep <Bluekuja> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww <Bluekuja> he gone early <Bluekuja> today <ogra> <highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu! <ogra> * highvoltage has quit ("leaving") <Bluekuja> aww , bad news <ogra> that was 10 min ago <Bluekuja> lol <Bluekuja> too late <ogra> yep <Bluekuja> okie but what time is it in south africa? <Bluekuja> he said goodnight <Bluekuja> so there might be midnight or something like that <ogra> its 9pm <Bluekuja> o <Bluekuja> its early <Bluekuja> maybe hes going out with his girlfrend ehehhe <ogra> heh <Bluekuja> :) <cbx33> Bluekuja, hiya <jelkner> anyone here who could answer an edubuntu support question? <jelkner> the client machine fails to boot <jelkner> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off <jelkner> is the last line <jelkner> mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory <jelkner> seems to be the start of the trouble <jelkner> ok, running ltsp-update-sshkeys seemed to fix the problem. <jelkner> i wish i understood this better <jelkner> hopefully the new author of the edubuntu cookbook will be able to explain things like this <jelkner> and perhaps it is fixed in dapper? <jelkner> it seems to happen once every few weeks at the library lab <jelkner> well, i gotta run... <jelkner> see you at the meeting tomorrow morning... <ogra> hmm, not that he'd sound bitter ... <lns> Hey all <lns> Does Edubuntu, by default, use SSH as a tunnel for encrypting terminal sessions? <Burgwork> lns, yes <ogra> hey Burgwork :) <lns> Burgwork, thanks! Now what is the correct way of disabling this if I'm using a local LAN and don't need it? <ogra> lns, you mean you dont need the ltsp functionallity at all ? <lns> ogra, no, I don't want ssh tunneling <Burgwork> salut ogra <ogra> lns, thats a bit tricky cause our ltsp is totally targeted to that architecture ... <ogra> we dont use xdmcp at all <lns> hrm.. <lns> how about if i installed gdm/kdm? would that easily override ldm, or would it screw everything up? <ogra> you will have to tweak the setup through your lts.conf file and install GDM or some other xdmcp capable login manager in the client environment <ogra> ldm would still start ... <ogra> hmm, wait a sec ... <lns> the reason why I want to disable ssh is because i want the sessions to be as quick as possible... unless any of you disagree that it would improve speed by simply using the x11 proto instead of going through ssh <lns> i'm testing stuff out and things like tuxtyping is incredibly slow due to it's 3d rendering of stuff <ogra> i guess it will work if you install gdm, its supposed to start at position 13 in rc2 <ogra> ldm starts at 20 <lns> ok, great <ogra> it wont improve speed <ogra> but test yourself ... <lns> ok, thanks ogra <ogra> also try with NETWORK_COMPRESSION=true in lts.conf :) <lns> now here's another thing, how do i customize ldm if i wanna keep it? <ogra> the tunnel is uncompressed by default to support lower specced HW <ogra> in breezy or dapper ? <lns> hrm <lns> breezy <ogra> no way ... <lns> oh.. :( <lns> hehe <ogra> you could try to use the dapper package at own risk <ogra> its fullscreen themeable and looks like gdm <lns> yeah that's a catch 22 because i need to demo on friday... ogra IYHO, do you think dapper is ok for a demo at this point? <ogra> its only pygtk .... i know debian ported it back to sarge <lns> i haven't tried it yet, but since it's gonna be out on the 20th i'm assuming it's *almost* done? <ogra> lns, i just ran the flight-6 tests, we'll release a milestone iso this week <ogra> it runs quite ok <lns> :) <lns> good news!!! <ogra> and ltsp wont see any big changes anymore <lns> awesome <lns> i just downloaded flight-5 last night..guess i'll be redownloading ;) <ogra> it wont be out on the 20th <lns> oh <lns> ok well in any case <ogra> dapper as a whole was postponed to june 1st <lns> oh wow i didn't realise <lns> will upgrading existing servers be pretty seamless? <ogra> even if edubuntu is ready at 20th, we cant release before the underlying arch is released :) <lns> will i be able to apt-get dist-upgrade? <ogra> yep <lns> w00t =) <ogra> even if you come from breezy i'd suggest to rebuild tzhe client environment <shadow> hello! <lns> hey shadow <shadow> hey ogra ! <ogra> the biggest speedups will only happen if you recreate the chroot <ogra> hi shadow <thedarkener> dumb q-how do you do that? <thedarkener> (rebuild chroot) <thedarkener> sorry i'm still new to ltsp <ogra> sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/i386 && sudo ltsp-build-client <shadow> ogra, that bug in fstab is killing me...noone knows if it'll be fixed....do you know the fix for it? <ogra> shadow, ?? <ogra> which bug ? <ogra> (and which bug # ? ) <shadow> Dapper shows 7 floppies, none of which will mount...i removed the extras from fstab and /media...still no good <thedarkener> ogra, that won't kill the users' home dirs by rebuilding chroot will it? <ogra> shadow, do yu have the bugnumber handy ? <ogra> be sure we wont release in such a state :) <shadow> not off hand no, but i was told it is on launchpad <ogra> thedarkener, usually you dont have homedirs in the thin client environment <thedarkener> ok. <ogra> the desktop session and user environment are on the server ... the thin client chroot is only for running the X server and login manager on the client <thedarkener> ok, awesome. <thedarkener> thanks =) <ogra> :) <thedarkener> i'm really excited about edubuntu <ogra> cool :) <ogra> Burgwork, did you read the automatix thread ? <shadow> i tried installing a fully updated Dapper but still same prob, i tried using my fstab from Breezy...no good.... <ogra> shadow, its most likely a udev bug ... look in launchpad, there you'll see the status ... <shadow> btw, gcompris still runs like a dream for me...no probs i've encountered yet <ogra> shadow, yvesC will be happy to hear :) <shadow> it should be fixed by the time Dapper goes gold?? <ogra> the floppy thing ? <shadow> yes, by all means, tell him it's super <ogra> shadow, he's here, tell him yourself ;) <shadow> yup the floppy thing <ogra> do you think we would release with such a bug ;) <thedarkener> hey ogra any torrent link / url for flight 6? <Burgwork> Burgwork, I avoid automatix, as my doctor recommended I need to keep my blood pressure down <Burgwork> ogra, even <ogra> thedarkener, not yet, flight-6 doesnt exist yet ;) <shadow> yvesC, GCompris fonctionne absolument parfait, merci, merci! <thedarkener> oh ok <thedarkener> durr... ;) thanks guys..otl, be back later <ogra> Burgwork, Peter garretts comments are really worth the thread :-D <Burgwork> ogra, is this on the ubuntuforums? <ogra> thedarkener, flight-6 is due for thursday or friday <ogra> thedarkener, there will be an announcement on the edubuntu mailing list <ogra> Burgwork, ubuntu-users .... forum gateway <Burgwork> hmm, one of these days I really should install Edubuntu... <ogra> heh <ogra> yes, you should test the new themes :) <Seveas> Burgwork, you should link your nicknames <shadow> brb <Burgwork> Seveas, think should already be linked <Seveas> they weren't a few minutes ago <Burgwork> hmm <Seveas> /msg nickserv link burgundavia burgundavias_pass <Burgwork> hmm <Burgwork> appears I linked them the wrong way <Burgwork> Seveas, Link failed: circular link detected <-- how do I clear out a linking? <Seveas> hmm, odd <Seveas> so you ARE linked, but burgundavia is cloaked and burgwork not <Burgwork> I think I am linked the wrong way though <Burgwork> burgundavia --> burgwork, not burgwork --> burgundavia <ogra> should that matter ? <Seveas> it shouldn't matter <Burgwork> hmm <Burgwork> ogra, oh, joy. A huge thread filled with arnieboy ranting <ogra> yep <ogra> but Peter Garret deserves the title "ubunthumorist of the month" <ogra> his posts are really great ... <Seveas> Burgwork, try this: /nick asdifvsaufabodf <Seveas> and then /nick Burgwork <Seveas> (asdifvsaufabodf is not literally needed, but it should be an unregistered nick) <Burgwork> hmm <Burgwork> the opinion that the coc doesn't count in the forums really scares me <ogra> yep <Burgwork> I wonder if it is time for the stick <ogra> i think its over for now ... <Burgwork> no, the forums in general <ogra> but the gateway issue should be solved <Seveas> --- [Burgwork] (n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia) : Corey Burger <Seveas> it worked <ogra> hmm <ogra> i still see a dns name <Seveas> your client caches it probably <ogra> yep, a *real* whois shows it right <Burgwork> excellent. Thanks Seveas <bobulator> hey again... im planning on doing this reinstall then. im gonna back up the whole home directory, but where is all the other system info stored, ie the user database? whats the ebst way to back this up? <Seveas> bobulator, /etc <Seveas> and some things in /var <LaserJock> ogra: can you take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2218 ? <cbx33> evenin all <bobulator> the whole thing? <ogra> LaserJock, heh, even with alternative :) <LaserJock> ogra: well, I stole that kinda. I based the package off of Lex Spoon's at http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3616 <bobulator> Seveas: if i just back those up and dump them back in when im done, will everything be ok? <ogra> ah, well, we probably should change the other packages to his as well ... <Seveas> probably not bobulator <bobulator> haha ok :D maybe easier just to recreate the user accounts manually? <LaserJock> ogra: I think if squeak-image is done then all we need to do is add a wrapper script to squeak that checks for .image and .changes files <ogra> yep <ogra> i think thats already in ... <LaserJock> is it? <LaserJock> I know that Lex's packages have a inisqueak shell script <ogra> but i might be wrong, i was as well convinced that the image creating tool was in the package <ogra> yep .. <ogra> and we're missing it ... <ogra> LaserJock, the package is fine with me ... dunno if we need any freeze approval currently ... <ogra> else i'd say upload .... <LaserJock> ogra: well, I can mdz real quick but I thin the NEW is ok <ogra> but since its a bugfix ... <ogra> just upload it, refer to me if anyone asks ... <ogra> squeak is a edubuntu package ... <LaserJock> ok, so then should I add Lex's shell script to squeak-vm? <ogra> (i had 2 weeks discussions with elmo about the license back then) <ogra> yep <LaserJock> yeah, I know they have discussed it in debian-legal <ogra> we're not debian :) <ogra> luckily :) <ogra> sabdlf blessed it in the end <ogra> elmo wouldnt have left it into the archive <LaserJock> interesting <bobulator> Seveas: so where is just the user database info stored? is it in one place or shall i just recreate all the accounts manaually? <Seveas> /etc/{passwd,group,shadow} <bobulator> cool <bobulator> whats shadow? <ogra> a password database <bobulator> ah ace, encrypted? <bobulator> thanks for that, i love finding new useful files.... mmmmm <ogra> thats an ubuntu system you have currently? <bobulator> ogra, edubuntu <ogra> ah,k <ogra> then its all fine ... <bobulator> good stuff <ogra> other distros define other system users and user ids ... so it would get tricky but from edubuntu to edubuntu will be no problem <ogra> (or kubuntu/ubuntu/xubuntu) <bobulator> coolcool. well, wish me luck, here we go,.... <ogra> :) <spacey> goodnight <ogra> night spacey #edubuntu 2006-04-03 <LaserJock> ogra: I found the problem <LaserJock> ogra: there is a wrapper script. I just isn't installed into the deb <ogra> gah <ogra> my mistake then <LaserJock> ogra: but there needs to be some symlinks (it expects everything in /usr/lib/squeak/ and we install in /usr/share/squeak/) <ogra> just change the script ? i dont think its upstream ... <ogra> my packages were based on some guadalinex sourcepackages ... <LaserJock> apparently the script is pretty popular <ogra> but why should we add unecessary symlinks ? <ogra> change the location of the target then ? <ogra> i.e. lets just install to /usr/lib ... <LaserJock> just a sec, I think the script is created by ./configure so I'm not entirely sure how to switch it <LaserJock> ogra: we could do that too <ogra> if there is no policy violation through installing to /usr/lib ... (which i doubt) ... <LaserJock> ogra: initsqueak is created by ./configure so I think it would be better to symlink or change install targets <ogra> lets change targets then <ogra> there is no danger that we clash with debian any day before apple is broke <LaserJock> lol <ogra> and i think the upstream code didnt change since ages, did it ? <LaserJock> I don't think so <LaserJock> but now I got
{'channel': 'edubuntu', 'month': 4}