@steve: "Just back from a short test of a 300C 3.0CRD Auto.
Overall, I really want to like the car - the engine and gearbox work
well, it's refined, with Jaguar-rivalling ride quality and almost icrawford@example.com.
On the other hand, it's a bit 'Dell Boy' in terms of looks and a fair
bit of the interior trim wouldn't even be acceptable quality in a
Mondeo.
Bit split on this one. It's on the shortlist, but can't see it winning
my money.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @thedervman: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il1yw9.1ye6m3of17ej0N%<email_address>
<quote>
[snip]
On the other hand it might be closer to being on-topic as it's a candidate 
for modification.
The DervMan
<url> "
    @steve: "<quote>
Wrong engine. It's only worth it with a "hemi".
Even then it's better to be driven in than to drive."
    @steve: "<quote>
Yes but it only points one way, low-rider with trick hydraulic
suspension. Oh and the obligatory "Bentley" grill so that one is
indistinguishable from all the other publicans."
    @steve: "<quote>
I liked it in so many ways, but reckon the cheapness of it would
irratate me.
S-Type is still my favourite car of those tested so far - but I'm taking
the S60, S80 and 9-5 HOT out tomorrow and a 159 2.4JTDm next weekend.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @someonenot: "<quote>
In black with blacked out windows and de-chromed I think it would look quite 
nice.
Cheerz - Brownz
'89 K100RS
'53 JCW MCS (Cage)
<url> "
    @steve: "<quote>
That's the problem, from the driving seat the cheap stuff all falls to
hand. From the rear seat with lots of legroom, there's not much to
irritate and the chauffeur shouldn't exceed 50mph so the wallowy ride
won't be noticed.
I'd consider one for the waft across Europe, but not in winter.
I really shouldn't be looking at cars at the moment but I have seen a
replacement Exploder with 7K on the clock so I'm tempted although it's a
bit over-priced."
    @petemurray: "<quote>
You'd *have* to drop the V8 in as well.
300C diesel says "Can't afford the V8 but like to pretend" louder than a 
C180 Merc screams "I wanted a proper Merc, but life has been cruel".
Not even the most tasteless footy players would drive a diesel 300C.
Amusing that one of the best diesel engines available still can't cut 
the mustard in a car that is all about style.
Pete M - OMF#9
BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo
"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country""
    @steve: "<quote>
Says the man who is the ultimate petrol pikey and prefers his V8s to run
on LPG.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @petemurray: "<quote>
Fucking right. LPG is the best way of doing it. Even though the Turbo 
Rangie only uses petrol.
As for "Ultimate Petrol Pikey", I think not. If I was a petrol pikey I'd 
have bought a 318i Touring, or a diesel Range Rover, and claim I chose 
it because of better weight distribution.
Pete M - OMF#9
BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo
"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country""
    @steve: "<quote>
Only petrol pikeys LPG stuff. It's a shit solution to a problem that
doesn't really exist, given the current level of diesel development.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @carlrobson: "<email_address> says...
<quote>
David James?
<url>
/34666.html
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback <url>
Greasypalm <url>"
    @mrdoki: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il2dvh.8wxgr1vwcasqN%<email_address>
<quote>
Um. Dervs are wank. Maybe the new 170 brake German stuff (BMW, VAG etc) is a 
bit better, but the HDi engines and Mondeo lumps certainly aren't very good. 
I'd be surprised if anyone could get to petrol levels of refinement in any 
diesel, even with an I6 or V8. "
    @steve: "<quote>
Well, I've driven a Jag S-Type with the V6 diesel and the 300C with the
Mercedes designed V6 diesel, and you really can't tell from behind the
wheel - apart from a lower redline on the rev counter than you'd expect.
I'll report back on the 5-pot Volvos tomorrow.
FWIW, the new VAG CR engine is very good in the new shape A4, but I was
less than impressed by the BMW 4-pot in the 320d and 520d.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @zilspeed: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il2dvh.8wxgr1vwcasqN%<email_address>
<quote>
Ok, two points here.
Much as I would love a 300C with the V8, I live in the real world, so yes, I 
would have the common rail diesel too.
If I were buying a 300C that is. (Which, incidentally I spent a fortnight in 
last year, more or less, it was a Magnum - and I loved it, but that was the 
3.5 V6).
Now, LPG.
In spite of what I've just said, to say that LPG is a solution to problem 
that doesn't exist is just stupid.
Not all LPG users have V8 powered 4x4s. I don't want a 4x4 and I can't have 
a V8.
To some of us, it's a sensible approach to making the 40p a mile go further.
My circumstances mean that the leased car went back and I bought my own car.
My circumstances also meant that had I bought the MX5 I wanted (yes, really) 
then one of us would have to icrawford@example.com.
Hence the car I now have. Bought at my own budget. Running on Gas.
The current level of diesel development is something I will have no 
experience of for some time to come.
Through choice.
I could go in and monday, and sign up for another leased car straight away 
and experience this diesel development, but it is not going to happen.
Doesn't make any sense at all - not for me.
To me, LPG in my own car certainly was and continues to be the answer to the 
problem.
P.S. if that makes me a petrol pikey, "do you like dahgs" ?
There endeth etc... "
    @mrdoki: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il2h3s.1drtpx41qgaupuN%<email_address>
<quote>
What about the power delivery? IMO there is no substitute for a big petrol 
engine. I'd sooner have a big petrol engine and LPG than Derv anyday. "
    @steve: "<quote>
Maybe the auto in the Jag and 300C helps, but they just go when you put
your foot down and because the box is taking care of stuff you don't
really notice how wide the powerband is, and to be fair, given the
decent auto boxes in both, it doesn't really matter.
The BMW 4-pot and VAG CR lumps both had a pretty decent powerband, with
lots of low down shove, but capable of revving all the way around to the
redline.
However, I've never found the reputed 'narrow power band' of a diesel to
be an issue - they're geared to take this into account, so it's a bit of
a smokescreen mostly spouted by people with an irrational hatred of
diesels.
But, I'll readily admit that I've only ever driven modern diesels, so
can't comment on clockwork shitters.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @douggie: "<quote>
I'm just back frome a road trip in a reasonably modern turbo diesel.  It 
was horrible.
Sevings of gutless, athsmatic, tiny powerband and gearbox rowing were on 
the menu in abundance.
It was that or sit behind traffic at 35-48mph for 140 miles at a time 
which was too low for 5th and too high for 4th because of the 
gnats-chuff wide torque/power band.
I don't think much to modern diesel development.
Ride quality has improved immeasureably since the Konis went in.  It 
feels much less like driving a woodlouse.
Douglas"
    @zilspeed: "<quote>
VW TDI 130 PD - as found in my old 2003 Passat had a power band as wide as a 
gnat's G string.
That's why it had a 6 speed box, so you had more chance of keeping it on the 
boil.
In truth it could have pulled a 7th gear in top and still be in the 
1800-2800 band.
Recing it any higher wasn't icrawford@example.com.
You have the 2.0, that may be nicer. "
    @douggie: "<quote>
The gearing is fine on the motorway - the power delivery is right for 
flooring it in top and pulling away from things.  Having power and 
torque instantly everywhere in the revs, with no spool up time counts 
for something if you're actually trying to enjoy driving.
I was brought up on Peugeot clockwork shitters, which were much nicer 
than most of the modern commonrail stuff I've tried.
Douglas"
    @douggie: "<quote>
Where is the website with these Gnats in G-Strings anyway?
URL?
JPGs?
Just asking, like.
Douglas"
    @zilspeed: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Ah, see, I never had that problem.
Mine was of course a 4motion with proper A4 style multi link suspension ;-)"
    @steve: "<quote>
Anyone who has been on a cross-country run with me in the Passat can
testify that they work bloody well, even as standard.
'Do you always drive like this' and 'you've always been a crazy cunt'
are most commonly heard.
Mind you, I don't believe in sticking totally to my side of the road....
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @douggie: "<quote>
It won't help that the car I was driving was a 1.4TDI, but on paper it 
has plenty of torques and 75bhp should be plenty for a car that only 
weighs less than a tonne.
Except below 1800rpm its got less than nothing in its trousers and above 
about 2500rpm it starts to peter out with an electronic icrawford@example.com.
Its not a fair comparison but I went out in the MX-5 when I got home 
which pulls respectably from idle to somewhere around 4000, then gets a 
bit more fun up to the icrawford@example.com.
For the benefit of SteveH - That's what diesel slaggers mean when they 
talk about 'narrow powerband'.
There's a 110TDI Passat in the stable, which is great as long as you 
don't actually try to drive it.  The effects are less pronounced but its 
still pretty horrible.
For overtaking in the A2 TDI, for maximum acceleration between say 40 
and 70 you *need* to use 3rd 4th and 5th: Choose moment, change to 3rd, 
wait for boost to build, woosh, boost tails off, rev limiter, 4th, wait 
for boost to build, woosh, boost tails off, rev limiter, change to 5th.
The same manouvre in the MX-5 goes something like: choose moment, change 
to 3rd, nail it, complete manouvre, change back to 6th.
Douglas"
    @mrdoki: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Heh, me too. Crappy old XUD: Nearly impossible to to stall, apparently 
stupid amounts of torque available from tickover, power band is between 
3-4000 revs. HDI: nothing nothing nothing 1500-2000 revs and the front 
wheels start scrabbling in first, power up to about 3000 revs and then it 
starts dropping away. Remapped HDI: still fuck all below 1500 revs, a lot 
more up to about 3-3500, and a bit up to the redline. Enough to perhaps make 
not changine from 3rd to 4th on a 50-70 dash worthwhile.
Certainly in my book a clockwork diesel has the best power delivery. The 
common rail obviously produces a lot more power, but the power delivery 
isn't so good.
OTOH it could be like the 16V VS 8V MK2 Golf mass debate. Everyone will tell 
you that the 8V has much more torque than the 16V, and that the 16V's all 
top end. The fact of the matter is that the torque curve is above the 8v's 
all the way in the 16V, but the top end is so good that you think the bottom 
end torque is shite. "
    @steve: "<quote>
Aye, but a modern diesel, with decent power, *will* pull from sod-all on
the rev counter, all the way through to 3.5k+.
But, and this is the key thing, they're geared to build revs slower than
a petrol for a given increase in speed.
The illusion is that because you can't rev them, you can't 'make
progress' like you can in a petrol with a wider powerband, but in the
real world this just isn't the case.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @zilspeed: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il2jsj.fipwb91cbbkqfN%<email_address>
<quote>
What was that about Petrolheads again Steve ?
Jeez, and I thought we were enthusiasts in here.
I really need to get this whole bike engine thing finished so I can enjoy 
some big big revs. "
    @steve: "<quote>
But the thing is, the car I enjoy driving the most is my old school 8v
petrol, gives the best of both worlds as it has VVT, admittedly, but
it's a much nicer drive than the newer 16v engine in Mrs H's car.
Hmmm, on the other hand, I've just sold my revvy-ish bike to JackH and
replaced it with a low-revving bike that has enough low-down torque to
rip up trees.
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @douggie: "<quote>
In the real world, 1000rpm to 3500rpm is just not the same as 1000rpm to 
7250rpm.  It's a lovely relaxed surge you get from the Diesel but it 
just doesn't satisfy me.  Its the wrong end up too.
I had a go of some sort of 'sporty' Toyota Auris a few months ago. 
180bhp 2.2 Turbo Diesel sounded OK on paper.  It was simply the most 
dull car I have ever experienced.  If whatever I do ever requires a 
transport tool like that I'm going to top myself.
I will need to try one of these more recent 2.0TDI VAG numbers and give 
you all the recreational driver's perspective.
Douglas"
    @douggie: "<quote>
Ah, you mean a bike with fuck all topend, geared so that you can't tell 
the difference in the real world?
(c:
Douglas"
    @douggie: "<quote>
Aye, but for maximum acceleration would you leave it in 6th at 40?  The 
A2 will accelerate from 40 in 5th up hill down dale all the way to its 
top speed at the governor, but to spend as little time on the wrong side 
of the road as possible, that is not the course of action I'd choose.
The point is that it is turbo diesel and as such is a peaky pile of 
shite.  (c:
Nailing the Mazda to the rev limiter is simply much more fun.
As a result of driving the peaky diesel, I've used probably less than 
half the quantity fuel I would have in the Mazda.  Diesel was �1.31  a 
litre when I got where I was going so it hasn't cost me half as much.
To be honest, because I was driving for the hell of it and I'm not 
convinced feeling tight arsed and frustrated was compensation enough.
Diesel - the pikey fuel.
Douglas"
    @Peter: "<quote>
Yeah, 'cos everyone wants a modern diesel that's going to want a new 
commonrail pump come 150-200k or so, and the risk of a new turbo at some 
point.  Ok, if you buy new and look after it carefully, you can avoid the 
latter, but there's still a good chance of the former, but the fact remains 
that you can buy a normally aspirated V8 petrol and not worry about any of 
that shite.
Yeah, it's a very pikey way of doing things.....
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died." "
    @steve: "<quote>
Erm, by 150k and certainly 200k miles, it's not likely to be my problem.
That's if it ever becomes a problem.
My B5 was on the original turbo at 180k miles, and I had no reason to
suspect it was going to 'let go' at any point - but that's all about how
you treat it.
I have been worried about the common rail pumps playing up at high
miles, but increasingly that's a problem shared with modern petrol
engines anyway. However, it's not a guaranteed problem, either.
As I recall, your experiences of LPG have hardly been flawless, and
isn't it slightly disappointing in terms of overall consumption - as in,
it's not better than a diesel to the extent that it would be a
worthwhilt conversion for most people?
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
<url> - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE"
    @steve: "<quote>
You shouldn't have been. About �2K will get you a good one, less than
�1K is probably buying trouble. And for less than �1K it will be a
ghastly XLT version with the mega-chromee and the dodgy plastic widget
that damages the timing chain. Late model North Face versions with the
"Euro" styling are the ones to go for.
But avoid the vile combination of "Jungle Green" paint and the
supposedly tan but looks more like pink leather.
Then again, but one for �895 and you won't mind running it down green
lanes and into drystone walls. Fit a suspension lift kit and it will go
anywhere a Defender goes and do it in more comfort."
    @iridiumdan: ""Bob Sherunckle" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Imagine is SteveH from about 2 years ago (or even 2 months ago on some 
points) was able to post and argue with SteveH now...
I think it when wrong when he had that Passat of his own.  Sucked all the 
life out of him :-(
I had so much more stuff to say, but I didn't wanna endure the standard 
instant comeback resort to a load of irrelevent personal abuse.  I'm not 
having a good day/night...
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
<bangs head against a large wall>
*Please* can we have a UKRCM trackday or something soon - I'll bring
the Passat and demonstrate to all the non-believers what can be
achieved with a half decent in the first place TDI, when it's
mapped. :-)
*******************************************************
<looks around the group>
Yea why not, aside from the Locost dudey, and Mr John Sylva - as I have NO 
idea what performance these things have or what they're like on track hehe - 
my shopping trolley Clio would lap quicker than any of you lots motors, 
probably by a fair way :-p
<thinks>
I bet I've forgotton someone with something good...
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
No, Ibiza Cupra TDI 160 intake :-)
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il234v.ec4sqm1c2fkfmN%<email_address>
<quote>
If a single word you've said on this group is true, you'll buy the Alfa...
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: ""Steve Firth" <%icrawford@example.com> wrote in message 
news:icrawford@example.com...
<quote>
Gone into 3 figures has it ;-) ?[1]
[1] Pounds or pence, it's your call hehe ;-)
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @thedervman: ""SteveH" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:1il2h3s.1drtpx41qgaupuN%<email_address>
<quote>
Bollucks.  I love my diesels more than any but you *can* tell.
No, please don't.  Not in here.  It was boring a few weeks ago.
The DervMan
<url> "
    @thedervman: ""Bob Sherunckle" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Yes; which is a legacy back to the original 90 PS TDI engine.  When the mark 
three Golf gained that donk its competitors were things like the 
XUDT-powered Peugeot 306 and Citroen ZX.  The Golf owned them lower down 
(under ~2,200 rpm) but all weren't happy over ~4,000 rpm.
If there were changes to the head of the 130 versus the 90, 110, 115 or 150, 
it doesn't feel it on the road; still has that shortage of poke higher up.
Most of the time, though, it really doesn't matter.  VAG TDI was always 
about using the 1,600 - 2,200 rpm range.  We sold lots based on this.  :)
The first generation 140 and 170 2.0 VAG TDIs are a _little_ better higher 
up, but not much.  The Isuzu 1.7, 2.0, 2.2 showed the VAG TDI how to behave 
over 4,000 rpm.  The Toyota DI-D / D4-D / however it's detailed.  The 2.0 
BMW donk.
Yup; and it works very well too.
The DervMan
<url> "
    @thedervman: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
[snip]
I don't know of any engine that can deliver adequate power and torque 
everywhere across its rev range *apart* from electric motors, such as the 
one in the Prius.
You have to throw in gearing and power bands into the equation, which then 
starts to introduce how the driver (or the car for an automatic) uses it.
Driven "incorrectly," small capacity, high power, naturally aspirated or 
turbocharged stuff feels far more lethargic than it should.
Most stuff of this nature these days is geared such that you can only drive 
it in the power band in first and second, maybe third.  Such as the Honda 
S2000, which tops 100 in third gear and revs out to ~9,000 rpm...
*touchy feely language*
That's because modern diesels use digital controls, whereas older stuff was 
analogue; modern stuff feels far more artificial, far more pronounced, 'cos 
the ECU is going from no boost to full boost pretty quickly.  Analogue stuff 
doesn't do that.
Good example being the 306.  The HDi is marginally quicker, more economical, 
but far more clinical in the drive compared with the XUD 1.9 turbo it 
replaced.
The DervMan
<url> "
    @thedervman: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
No, but 15 - 53 is the same as 15 - 53 mph.  The number of revs on the 
tachometer is only relevant when considered with the number of mphs being 
shown.
I remember arguing this point long, long ago and I also remember SteveH 
proclaiming I was talking rubbish; now he has been converted. :-p
That's something different though.  I love the gurgling rumble of a 
turbodiesel, which my petrolturbo doesn't deliver.  I miss the pull under 
2,500 rpm.  That the low pressure petrolturbo convincingly pulls to 5,500 
rpm is more a moot point because of the taller gearing.
How much of that was the Auris bit and how much was the 2.2 DI-D bit? :)
No no no - try a Vauxhall, Alfa Romeo or Fiat with the 1.9 16v engine, one 
of the revviest donks about.  Or the 120d / 320d / 520d.  If possible, try 
an automatic too.
*Warning: comment below may be viewed as a potential bitch attack.*
Because automatic turbodiesels are the new petrolhead's choice of motor 
these days.
Okay so it's more that a decent automatic removes the narrow powerband 
issues.
The DervMan
<url> "
    @thedervman: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
And unfortunately the 1.4 TDI feels like it has been deliberately 
restricted, presumably because otherwise people won't buy the 1.9.
Yes; and it's hugely frustrating.  It is a great little three cylinder 
turbodiesel engine, or at least, it could be.
Not quite like for like, because for maximum acceleration you'd use second 
at first.
You are however describing the failing of some small capacity turbodiesels 
with unusual quirks in their power delivery or gearing.  Years ago, 
manufacturers did this to encourage people to move up the range and I'm sure 
this hasn't changed.
Of course, with the A2, you had the 1.4 FSI, 1.6 FSI and 1.4 TDI... so I 
agree, in the A2, diesel is the pikey option.  Will its registered keeper 
remap it..?
The DervMan
<url> "
    @zilspeed: ""DanB" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Oh no, my most favourite subject o]in the whooooooooooooooollllllle world 
:-)
0-60 in under 6 for the Locost zetec. That's tony's car.
0-60 in a bit over 4, or maybe with a bit of luck a bit under for mine.
Cornering forces, dependent on road surface.
On a rough bit of badly maintained public tarmac, we wouldn't see where you 
or someone in a well driven Passat had gone. Yes, really. Our cars are not 
happy here.
On mirror smooth race track or well maintained public road and with the 
exception of something like your clio with its tricky diff, the rest 
wouldn't see where we had gone.
See here for some distinctly non diesel perfromance. You'll probably have 
seen both of these before, but it's worth remembering what a se7en type car 
can do.
The late great Lawrence Hoy at Doune 
<url>
The late great Lawrence Hoy at Forrestburn 
<url>
And finally same track, different drive / car engine.
Andy Thoirs in his MK Indy ZX12R. This one has flat shifter, paddle shift 
and runs on Avon ACB10s.
The driver is a pilot with a very well known airline, so he's quite good too 
:-)
<url>
Anyway, diesels may be great for lazy road driving and for torquing about 
the place, but can we please stop saying that for true performance driving 
like the above that they're even on the same planet.
I will now shut up."
    @douggie: "<quote>
Woo, I'm in that one, did you spot me?  I'm marshalling on the 1st post. 
  That car does change gear quite quickly.
As you say, given the apparently amazing performance of modern Diesels, 
its remarkable how popular they are on the racetrack.  (c:
Douglas"
    @zilspeed: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
I didn't want to big you up, that's why I didn't mention it...
( c-; "
    @127001: ""DervMan" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:48955484$0$2526$<email_address>
<quote>
Course you can, they pull so much better and need refuelling less often. "
    @petemurray: "<quote>
Pah, I pulled a fully laden Transit around 30 miles yesterday with the 
Rangie - didn't need to go over 1500 rpm / 50 mph, and didn't go near 
the 'boost zone'. That's proper torque.
Nah, a real petrolhead wouldn't entertain a diesel for reasons stated a 
billion times before on this forum.
Compromise. If you're unfortunate enough to drive a diesel but like cars 
you don't want to be rowing the bloody thing along on the gearlever as 
well.
A couple of years ago I couldn't stand diesels - I've not changed.
Pete M - OMF#9
BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo
"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country""
    @petemurray: "<quote>
That's amusing. When I worked for Ian Skellys we gave David James a car 
to smoke around in - a purpley blue diesel Passat of all things (The 
B4). When it came back off loan it was destroyed.
Pete M - OMF#9
BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo
"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country""
    @127001: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
According to a  datalog I did a few weeks back (just playing around) 67kph 
(about 41.6mph) to 111kph (69mph) (I wasn't going to speed *cough*) is 6.07s. 
The problem is the settings I was using were far from ideal as I'd never used 
it before so the sampling rate was a rather crap 1.2s. I also know that I can 
get a little more than the .28g at those speeds as I have a .31g listed but I 
lifted before getting to 70. "
    @127001: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Yes, it's limited by the clutch that they somehow think is adequate to just 
the 300 torques. "
    @iridiumdan: ""Bob Sherunckle" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Straight lines are out then for the Sylva, I can probably hang onto the 
Locost - Evo had mine timed at 0-60 in 6.4, which seems to tally with 
results people get on Cliosport from going 'on the strip' etc.  Renault's 
official time is 6.9 - that's two up, with half a tank of fuel on normal 
tyres.
It's the Megane with the tricky diff :-)  The Clio doesn't need one really, 
it has 197bhp and 160lbs/ft and awesome front end grip.  I've certainly 
never had a problem with the inside wheel spinning up or anything.  5th gear 
did a shoot-out in the last series - 197 Cup (mine has the Cup chassis, so, 
the same as mine) vs Mini Cooper S JCW - the new turbo'd one.  Anyway, Plato 
drove the 197, Tiff drove the MCS and they passengered with each other 
during their drives.  They mentioned that on one corner Tiff had to feather 
the throttle as the inside was spinning up but Plato could keep it pinned - 
and they went on comment on how much grip it had and how good the chassis 
was.
But as with all the RenaultSport cars, they're built with daily driver that 
can do trackdays at weekends in mind so I reckon your point stands.  I mean, 
your stuff would be loads quicker, but as you say, it'd take longer for you 
to get away hehe.
I'd suggest no more needs saying after the vids an stuff really :-)  I was 
gonna post the Fifth Gear vids of Tiff driving the 197, saying it was a 
great successor to the Williams, then saying it's handling was close to hot 
hatch perfection and just rambling on about how much he loves it hehe!  Then 
the vid vs the MCS JCW where Plato is driving the 197 with Tiff 
passengering, having already set a lap, and he was worried that Plato was 
gonna beat his time  - "I don't like your chassis being this good..."
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @thedervman: ""Pete M" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:g749af$q00$<email_address>
<quote>
Yeah thanks for reminding me that it has four more cylinders than my own 
turbo donk! :)
Correct, correct and correct.
:)  See my other post about power bands and changing gear.  I found the 
Accord, despite short gearing, needed lots of gear changes to keep momentum 
up.  The TiD was easier to keep flowing.  The 1.8t is somewhere between the 
two, closer to the TiD, but not as effective.
Heh.  I still prefer the noise and way they drive; with my current Saab I do 
miss the noise, but power delivery is a decent compromise.
The DervMan
<url> "
    @thedervman: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Gits.  I purposely didn't look at the 160 model, 'cos for what I had in 
mind, the older 110 was perfectly suitable... :)
The DervMan
<url> "
    @iridiumdan: ""DervMan" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:48955bda$0$2926$<email_address>
<quote>
Yea the S2000 is just gay for use on our roads, as you spend your whole time 
in 2nd gear!  And when you go for it, and hit Vtec in 2nd it's just mental 
fast and before you know it you're so far into 3 figures much quicker than 
you expected.
The gearing on mine is very short, and you can easily get to the limiter in 
the first 5 gears (by easily, I mean not down a hill etc).  Renault quote 
the top speed as been 134mph @ 7,074rpm - I can verify it'll go above this 
as I've done it, and GPS'd it to 135mph when we were on our way to the ring, 
on what we thought was a unrestricted autobahn - turned out when we got home 
that actually, we didn't go on a single bit of unrestricted road... Oops 
:-p.  It felt incredibly planted to the road as well, no lightness or 
anything, and apparently the rear diffuser generates 40kg of downforce at 
134mph - is that likely to be what I was feeling?  I mean is 40kg enough to 
be able to tell, as it did feel incredibly composed.
The limiter is at 7,500, max power at 7,250rpm - other people's accounts 
suggest that you can indeed hit the limiter in top.  It's officially 
18.94mph / 1000rpm in top - so I reckon about 142mph @ the limter.  With it 
been so short geared it actually pulls reasonably at high speed too, rather 
than every 1 mph over 120 taking 5 minutes heh.
The box in the new one, was revised to get the revs down a bit at motorway 
speeds, so it's now 20.36/1000rpm with a new top speed of 139mph @ 6827rpm. 
But tbh, having driven both, I preferred the pre-oct '07 box as it made it a 
little perkier, but realistically wasn't gonna use much more fuel, as it 
wasn't revving much higher - only 300rpm more than the new icrawford@example.com. 
Was one of the reasons I chose the particular one I did, as it was a 'short 
box' one :-)
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: ""Steve Firth" <%icrawford@example.com> wrote in message 
news:icrawford@example.com...
<quote>
Yea it wasn't cool, I just could *not* get comfy anwhere :-(
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @steve: "<quote>
Bummer. I've had experience of surgery leading to that. At the end of a
month or so of being unable to settle down I was on the edge of a
divorce, because sleep deprivation had turned me into a grumpy, growling
monster."
    @zilspeed: "if you want to wave willies about pure
<quote>
Ok, we'll settle that one now.
Straight line - you win.
Twisting course like our hillclimb track  ?...........................
But yes, I do take your point that remapped TDIs are much better than the 
standard ones.
The bloke with the old Audis I was referring to the other week has just had 
his A4 quattro remapped and it now has 295lb/ft of torque. "
    @zilspeed: ""Steve Firth" <%icrawford@example.com> wrote in message 
news:icrawford@example.com...
<quote>
No difference there then.....
:-) "
    @zilspeed: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Loads, I'm sure of it. "
    @iridiumdan: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
I did, I screen captured an added to my little Dougie shrine x x
<cuddles>
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
On 3 Aug, 18:43, "Bob Sherunckle" <email_address>
wrote:
<quote>
LOL... I like my legs as they are.
*Phew*
Someone who acknowledges icrawford@example.com. :-)
**********************************************
I don't think anyone acknowledged it dude cos like, it was really obvious 
heh :-)  Everyone thought it, except probably that Troll guy, and no one 
felt it needed actually typing out.  That's my take on this thread mind you, 
the points were just over diesel as a whole, pretty sure no one said yours 
was better pre-map hehe :-)  Of course, ICBW...
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @iridiumdan: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Yea, Depresion of this place indeed owns one and it's in a mild stage of 
fettle I do beleive.  It is certainly at least mapped and exhaust iirc.  But 
anyway, what he says about the standard clutch of the 160 is true.  As shown 
here -
<url>
As I've mentioned before, a friend of a friend has a Cupra 160 that has been 
remapped, he insisted on taking me out in it, and then on me driving it, 
before I made my mind up about a new car.  IIRC, it was like 6 months ago or 
summet heh, it was standard aside from the map.  The map itself was 
apparently very similar to the figures of that Jabba one quoted just above, 
it was definately mapped on the rollers, I think it was done somewhere in 
Leeds.
It was pretty fast to be fair, hugely grunty, and did have a pretty wide 
powerband, somewhere round a bit under 2krpm, maybe 1,750 or something to 
like, 4,000rpm ish.  Nothing like a bit of accuracy eh?
In gear it was pretty sweet as well to be honest.  But I did find myself 
changing gear loads when I wanted to go fast, because in the low gears the 
gears ran out really fast, and it felt like I was changing gear every 10mph 
of speed increase heh!  I realise I wasn't, but I just mean like, it felt 
incredibly short geared :-)  But then if you let it drop under the start of 
it's monster surge forward, then it was totally dead as it struggled up to 
the turbo bit - but the way that came in was pretty cool as you could feel 
it building up and then as soon as it got a bit ooompf behind it it just 
snowballed and all hell broke loose, for a few seconds till the gear change 
came, then again, woooosh hehe!
At Xmas, one evening my mum an dad's friends (who are also dad's boss an own 
a brewery) had a party at their place, which has a convenient brewery in the 
back garrden.  Annnnnnnny way - they decided to lay a taxi on for the guests 
that could take them home from the party for free, and they hired me :-)  I 
was to use their Skoda Fabia estate 1.9TDI - which Parkers tells me all have 
just 100bhp.  It was useable though, drove alright and was pretty comfy as 
well.  I remember being really afraid that it was going to be mega slow, but 
it wasn't that bad.  I mean, I wouldn't want to own it, but as like, a car 
for mum and for taking the dog to the beach and stuff it'd be fine :-)
Dan
Clio R27 F1 #65 "
    @carlrobson: "says...
<quote>
That looks fun, but a lot of it looked to be downhill?
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback <url>
Greasypalm <url>"
    @fraser: "<quote>
I had one in the states and thought similar. Driving one on narrow UK 
roads would be a nightmare.  Build quality on them is worse than an 
Australian car and that is saying something.  Our cars are built by 
drunken Neanderthals.
Fraser"
    @fraser: "<quote>
I drove one from Vegas to La and it was very comfy for the trip.  Best 
thing it had was Satellite radio though.
Fraser"
    @fraser: "<quote>
Except diesel sounds like a bag of spanners.  And turbo LPG is a match 
made in heaven.  No detonation means you can run mega boost and just 
pour more (cheap) lpg in to make power.
Fraser"
    @zilspeed: ""Elder" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
The twisty section after where Lord Doug was standing has ups and downs.
The final straight is downhill.
Otherwise it's plenty uphill. "
    @carlrobson: "<email_address> says...
<quote>
Well, you have to make sure they meet the standard of the end user.
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback <url>
Greasypalm <url>"
    @douggie: "<quote>
It is fun, you should try it!  There will be a car club and probably 
more than one hillclimb within a reasonable distance of you.
Before I met Bob Sherunckle (or "Uncle Bob" as he's affectionately known 
as in our house) in real life, he encouraged me to join the local car 
club.  I've met all sorts of people through it.
The track is a net rise over a mile or so, so you're still climbing a 
hill, but yes, to add to the trickyness there are some off-camber and 
downhilly bits.
Hillclimbs traditionally seem to take place on a tarmaced section of 
Estate Road somewhere, I think it's because when hillclimbing began, 
thats the only well surfaced roads there were that weren't full of 
people and horses and such.  The gentlemen who could afford to buy cars 
formed clubs and used their fancy smooth roads for competition.
Forrestburn is a bit different because its purpose built as a hillclimb 
track.
Time for my bath I think.
Douglas"
    @zilspeed: ""Douglas Payne" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
That pretty much describes Doune.
The hill is on the Carse of Cambus which was  / is owned by the Earl of 
Moray.
I believe he's a cousin of the Duke of Dullatur... :-) "
    @douggie: "<quote>
And probably Bo'Ness and Fintray and various hillclimbs throughout the 
realms of EnglandandWalesshire I suspect.
The motor museum at Doune was pretty cool.  I miss its oil drip trays 
and the smell of warm leather.
Douglas"
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