@rcoppock: "Ten predictions about climate change that have come true
Times Online, June 25, 2007
Here are the hard facts about global warming that everyone should
know,
compiled for Times Online by internationally acclaimed writer,
scientist
and explorer Tim Flannery, author of The Weather Makers: Our changing
climate and what it means for life on earth.
[ . . . ]
Please see:
<url>
Follow the links for full information."
    @tdcomeau: "<quote>
ent/boo...
Ten predictions made by climate scientists that have come true (or are
becoming true)
1) That the Earth would warm as more CO2 was put into the atmosphere
(Svante Arrhenius in 1893)
2) That we'd begin to see noticable changes to Earth's climate by
around 2000 (some IPCC scientists ).
3) That sea-level would start rising
Background
The Weather Makers: Our Changing Climate and What It Means for Life on
Earth
The Weather Makers: extract 1
The Weather Makers: extract 2
Background
=A34bn to stop big drought killing heart of Australia
More hunger and hurricanes on the way
Darfur conflict warning of climate change peril
Help, I'm stuck in a climate change conundrum and trying to stay cool
When it comes to climate change, I'll take a small bet that Pascal was
right
4) That Earth's Ice would start melting rapidly (James Hanson)
5) that hurricanes would increase in intensity (this one goes back to
Alfred Russel Wallace in 1900)
6) That species would start going extinct as a result of climate
change.
7) That Australia would start drying out (Hadley Centre scientists)
8) That tropical diseases would increase
9) That food crops would be adversely affected
10) That the CO2 would begin to acidify the ocean
The ten biggest changes to the weather wrought by climate change
1) Shorter winters
2) Less runoff into dams and reservoirs in many regions of the world
3) More violent and longer hurricanes
4) Less chilly nights
5) Less predictable seasonal conditions
6) Less snow
7) More heat waves
8) Less rain in many regions at various seasons
9) More severe storms in the North Sea and parts of the southern
Ocean
10) Generally warmer conditions
The ten places in the world / animals in the world most endangered by
global warming
1) The glorious Cape Botanic province in South Africa, particularly
the succulent Karoo flora.
2) Amphibians everywhere (a third of all species are already gravely
endangered or extinct.
3) Coral reefs
4) species on mountaintops (many populations are already extinct.
5) The tundra
6) The Arctic Ocean
7) The Antactic Peninsula
8) Australia - where the drying trend is already precipitating a new
wave of declines and extinctions.
9) The Amazon, where drying will affect forests and rivers
10) the boreal forests, here pest infestations are destroying vast
areas of trees.
Tim Flannery is an internationally acclaimed writer, scientist and
explorer. As a field zoologist he discovered and named more than
thirty new species of mammals, including two tree-kangaroos. Sir David
Attenborough described him as being 'in the league of the all-time
great explorers like Dr David Livingstone'. His latest book, The
Weather Makers: Our changing climate and what it means for life on
earth , is published in paperback by Penguin
**********
1) Svante Arthenius was wrong in 1893 and he is wrong now.
2) We've been seeing noticeable changes to the worlds climate since we
began life on this planet. D'uh!
3) Sea level has not risen. Do you have a cite that shows the sea
levels rising in the last few years?
4) The Earth's ice has been melting rapidly in the last 10,000 years
since the last glaciation period. There is nothing diferent happening
now.
5) Hurricanes have not increased in intensity. Hurricanes are
hurricanes and some years they will be plentiful and strong and other
years they will be less plentiful and strong. Climate changes. It is
what it is.
6) Species will go extinct with climate change. No kidding. They will
also go extinct from over hunting and other causes. Climate is
changing at .6 degrees celsius per 100 years. It has nothing to do
with co2.
7) Australia will dry out some years and be wetter other years.
Nothinmg has changed in the long run.
8) Tropical diseases will increase due to many factors including more
global travel and exposure as well as diminished health from poor
nutrition.
9) Food crops have always been affected by bad weather. That is why
crop insurance is so big. And guess what, global warming will actually
improve crops in the northern latitudes. That is over many decades, if
not centuries.
10) CO2 acidifying the oceans. a) cite? b) is that any different than
what has happened in our globes history? Doubt it.
Hey, weather is not a static thing, neither is climate. Deal with it.
.6 degrees C per 100 years is hardly catastrophic.
And nice irrelevant name-dropping, trying to equate this individual to
Dr Livingstone. Cute."
    @spamtrap: ""Roger Coppock" <email_address> wrote
<quote>
1) That the Earth would warm as more CO2 was put into the atmosphere
(Svante Arrhenius in 1893) 
Arrhenius was a lying idiot.
CO2 is not the cause of temperature.
That's a settled fact.
2) That we'd begin to see noticable changes to Earth's climate by around 2000
(some IPCC scientists ). 
Correct. Earth is cooling since 1998 even IPCC keeps it silent.
3) That sea-level would start rising 
Maybe, but 'til now nobody has a clue how much, when wreynolds@example.net.
4) That Earth's Ice would start melting rapidly (James Hanson) 
Definition of rapidly?
Melting ice is a cyclic process and depends on earths orbit, axis.and sea tides.
5) that hurricanes would increase in intensity (this one goes back to Alfred Russel Wallace in 1900) 
Hurricane occurance has declined, and they have nothing to do with GW.
Far from it, GW reduces occurance of hurricanes.
6) That species would start going extinct as a result of climate change. 
They have always and will always. That's evolution. It has
nothing to do with GW.
7) That Australia would start drying out (Hadley Centre scientists) 
Australia is a big desert since it's origin. People living there 
should have accepted to live in a big desert. So what?
8) That tropical diseases would increase 
There is no evidence until now.
9) That food crops would be adversely affected 
BWAHAHAHAHAA... sorry, can't resist. What a crap statement.
10) That the CO2 would begin to acidify the ocean 
Warming oceans tend to outgassing CO2, not to bind. 
Completely crap statement and not evidenced.
All 10 predictions disproved (cites are wll known and everyone can
look up for himself).
Next try of "entertainment".timesonline.co.uk, please!"
    @its: ""Tunderbar" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Ten predictions made by climate scientists that have come true (or are
becoming true)
1) That the Earth would warm as more CO2 was put into the atmosphere
(Svante Arrhenius in 1893)
2) That we'd begin to see noticable changes to Earth's climate by
around 2000 (some IPCC scientists ).
3) That sea-level would start rising
Background
The Weather Makers: Our Changing Climate and What It Means for Life on
Earth
The Weather Makers: extract 1
The Weather Makers: extract 2
Background
�4bn to stop big drought killing heart of Australia
More hunger and hurricanes on the way
Darfur conflict warning of climate change peril
Help, I'm stuck in a climate change conundrum and trying to stay cool
When it comes to climate change, I'll take a small bet that Pascal was
right
4) That Earth's Ice would start melting rapidly (James Hanson)
5) that hurricanes would increase in intensity (this one goes back to
Alfred Russel Wallace in 1900)
6) That species would start going extinct as a result of climate
change.
7) That Australia would start drying out (Hadley Centre scientists)
8) That tropical diseases would increase
9) That food crops would be adversely affected
10) That the CO2 would begin to acidify the ocean
The ten biggest changes to the weather wrought by climate change
1) Shorter winters
2) Less runoff into dams and reservoirs in many regions of the world
3) More violent and longer hurricanes
4) Less chilly nights
5) Less predictable seasonal conditions
6) Less snow
7) More heat waves
8) Less rain in many regions at various seasons
9) More severe storms in the North Sea and parts of the southern
Ocean
10) Generally warmer conditions
The ten places in the world / animals in the world most endangered by
global warming
1) The glorious Cape Botanic province in South Africa, particularly
the succulent Karoo flora.
2) Amphibians everywhere (a third of all species are already gravely
endangered or extinct.
3) Coral reefs
4) species on mountaintops (many populations are already extinct.
5) The tundra
6) The Arctic Ocean
7) The Antactic Peninsula
8) Australia - where the drying trend is already precipitating a new
wave of declines and extinctions.
9) The Amazon, where drying will affect forests and rivers
10) the boreal forests, here pest infestations are destroying vast
areas of trees.
Tim Flannery is an internationally acclaimed writer, scientist and
explorer. As a field zoologist he discovered and named more than
thirty new species of mammals, including two tree-kangaroos. Sir David
Attenborough described him as being 'in the league of the all-time
great explorers like Dr David Livingstone'. His latest book, The
Weather Makers: Our changing climate and what it means for life on
earth , is published in paperback by Penguin
**********
1) Svante Arthenius was wrong in 1893 and he is wrong now.
2) We've been seeing noticeable changes to the worlds climate since we
began life on this planet. D'uh!
3) Sea level has not risen. Do you have a cite that shows the sea
levels rising in the last few years?
4) The Earth's ice has been melting rapidly in the last 10,000 years
since the last glaciation period. There is nothing diferent happening
now.
5) Hurricanes have not increased in intensity. Hurricanes are
hurricanes and some years they will be plentiful and strong and other
years they will be less plentiful and strong. Climate changes. It is
what it is.
6) Species will go extinct with climate change. No kidding. They will
also go extinct from over hunting and other causes. Climate is
changing at .6 degrees celsius per 100 years. It has nothing to do
with co2.
7) Australia will dry out some years and be wetter other years.
Nothinmg has changed in the long run.
8) Tropical diseases will increase due to many factors including more
global travel and exposure as well as diminished health from poor
nutrition.
9) Food crops have always been affected by bad weather. That is why
crop insurance is so big. And guess what, global warming will actually
improve crops in the northern latitudes. That is over many decades, if
not centuries.
10) CO2 acidifying the oceans. a) cite? b) is that any different than
what has happened in our globes history? Doubt it.
Hey, weather is not a static thing, neither is climate. Deal with it.
.6 degrees C per 100 years is hardly catastrophic.
And nice irrelevant name-dropping, trying to equate this individual to
Dr Livingstone. Cute.
   As usual, Tundy just lies, and lies, and lies, and lies.  No proof will 
be presented at any point.  ;) "
    @its: ""Peter Muehlbauer" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:f5rmvf$ujv$<email_address>
<quote>
  As usual, Peter Muehlbauer just lies, and lies, and lies, and lies.  No 
proof will be presented at any point.  ;) "
    @ballensr: "Roger cites a zoologist to make his "AGW" case. Thank God he doesn't design 
bridges!
WDA
end
"Roger Coppock" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>"
    @its: ""W. D. Allen" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:46816b36$0$3152$<email_address>
<quote>
  As opposed to you boys' economists and software consultants?  lol "
    @boozoo: "news:f5rrgv$22l$<email_address>
<quote>
 SUCH AS THOSE IN THE THE FOLLOWING LIST, EH BOZO?
Claude All�gre, French geophysicist, Institute of Geophysics (Paris):
Sallie Baliunas, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Robert C. Balling, Jr
Prof Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University,
Townsville
George V. Chilingar, professor of civil and petroleum engineering at the
University of Southern California, and Leonid F. Khilyuk:
Michael Crichton
California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma
Associate Professor Stewart Franks Hydroclimatologist
University of Newcastle
Chris de Freitas, Associate Professor, School of Geography, Geology and
Environmental Science, University of Auckland:
William M. Gray, professor of atmospheric science and meteorologist, Colorado
State University
Sherwood Idso, former research physicist, USDA Water Conservation Laboratory,
and adjunct professor, Arizona State University
Khabibullo Ismailovich Abdusamatov, at Pulkovskaya Observatory of the Russian
Academy of Sciences and supervisor of the Astrometria project of the Russian
section of the International Space Station
Zbigniew Jaworowski, chair of the Scientific Council at the Central Laboratory
for Radiological Protection in Warsaw
David Legates, associate professor of geography and director of the Center for
Climatic Research, University of Delaware
Marcel Leroux, former Professor of Climatology, Universit� Jean Moulin
Richard Lindzen, MIT meteorology professor and member of the National Academy of
Sciences
Martin Livermore, Independent consultant
Tim Patterson [25], paleoclimatologist and Professor of Geology at Carleton
University in Canada
Ian Plimer, Professor of Mining Geology, University of Adelaide
Frederick Seitz, retired, former solid-state physicist, former president of the
National Academy of Sciences
Nir Shaviv, astrophysicist at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Fred Singer, Professor emeritus of Environmental Sciences at the University of
Virginia
Willie Soon, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Henrik Svensmark, Danish National Space Center
Roy Spencer, principal research scientist, University of Alabama in Huntsville
Jan Veizer, environmental geochemist, Professor Emeritus from University of
Ottawa
THE ABOVE LOOK UPON FLANNERY AS THE CRACKPOT PAR EXCELLENCE!
Regards
Bonzo
"...and I think future generations are not going to blame us for anything except
for being silly, for letting a few tenths of a degree panic us"
Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Meteorology MIT and Member of the National
Academy of Sciences
"What most commentators-and many scientists-seem to miss is that the only thing
we can say with certainly about climate is that it changes" Dr. Richard Lindzen,
Professor of Meteorology MIT and Member of the National Academy of Sciences
[most of the current alarm over climate change is based on] "inherently
untrustworthy climate models, similar to those that cannot accurately forecast
the weather a week from now." Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Meteorology MIT
and Member of the National Academy of Sciences"
    @its: ""Truth-monger" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
So when is/was the debate?  Any links to a transcript?
   Debate...? "
    @The_Sage: "<quote>
False. The Earth cooled down during the '70s as CO2 increased. Temperatures do
not track CO2 levels very well.
False. Noticable changes to Earth's climate began about 16,000 years ago. The
average global temperatures have risen 16�F since then.
False. Sea-levels already began rising about 16,000 years ago. Sea-levels have
risen 300 feet since then.
False. Earth's Ice melted much more rapidly 16,000 years ago then it is today.
The ice sheet on Greenland used to contigiously extend all the way to the
northernmost States of America.
Undetermined. Some hurricane seasons have been strong and some weak, but we have
yet to break any of those records.
False. Wholly Mammoth went extinct about 16,000 years ago.
False. Australia already started to dry out when the last Ice Age ended 16,000
years ago.
Diseases don't increase, people increase and then the number of people getting
diseases increases, but that isn't a case of diseases increasing but of people
increasing.
False.Productivity is higher now than it ever has been.
False. The oceans have always been high in CO2.
A no brainer, seeing as we just ended a Little Ice in 1850, so the winters
natrually should be getting shorter ever since.
Wrong. Global warming is supposed to increase rainfall, therefore this would
contradict that prediction.
False. Hurricanes are just as violent as they always have been ("violence"
defined as "wind speeds").
The Little Ice just ended so what else would you expect?
Nonsense. When were they ever more predictable?
The Little Ice just ended so what else would you expect?
The Little Ice just ended so what else would you expect?
It is also supposed to increase it n many regions at variou seasons, so that
proeves nothing.
The Little Ice just ended so what else would you expect?
The Little Ice just ended so what else would you expect?
But there isn't anything above that we haven't been through before.
All of these places and animals have endured numerous Interglacials during the
last three million years (including the Polar Bear), so I'm sure they could
survive another one.
As well as already preciptating new species.
"Will"? When?
Define "vast". And pest infestations are not global warming, but pests.
The Sage
=============================================================
<url>
"Ours is the age that is proud of machines that think and
suspicious of men who try to"  H. Mumford Jones
============================================================="
    @kwag7693: "<quote>
You're out of lockstep, Rodger Dodger.  Don't you know that computer
models now have no predictive power, the IPCC never made any
predictions and the models can't even be assigned probabilistic
outcomes?  Get with the times, man."
    @bward: "<quote>
Armstrong may have been the tipping point.  His paper is pretty convincing.
Maybe our thermophilic friends are all busy trying to figure out how to
avoid a disastrous debate between Al and Scott.  The last thing they need
now is for people to start asking embarrassing questions in public. 
Fox News said today they had called Al's people for a reaction to the
challenge, but no one would talk to them. Big surprise there.
It's going to be interesting to see exactly how the scam comes apart,
and what the excuses will be.  I wonder who'll take the fall, Hansen?   "
    @fernbach1948: "THE LITTLE ICE AGE HAS ENDED  So therefore we can just ignore the
fact that human civilization has recently been digging up and burning
tens of millions of tons of fossilized carbon that's been buried
underground for hundreds of millions of years, right, Roger?
I mean - since THE LITTLE ICE AGE HAS ENDED, it doesn't matter that
Keeling's famous experiments with CO2 measurement at Mauna Loa
Observatory in Hawaii have shown steadily rising levels of CO2 since
the mid-20th century.
None of that extra CO2 in the atmosphere stuff matters, Roger.  And
who cares about the humongous amounts of dead dinosaur bones and
prehistoric plants that we've extracted from our coal mines and oil
wells and burned.  Because THE LITTLE ICE AGE HAS ENDED, and naturally
the earth's climate is getting warmer as a result, and so NOBODY CARES
about the shifting CO2 concentrations that Keeling found..
BECAUSE the climate is getting warmer due to the ending of the LITTLE
ICE AGE, it follows that THEREFORE, it can't also be getting warmer
because of increased concentrations of CO2, methane and other
"greenhouse" gases in the air.  Right?
I mean, isn't there a scientific law that follows American
constitutional principles, and that says the climate can't be placed
in "double jeopardy" from both natural and man-made causes?
It just wouldn't be FAIR for CO2 and methane emissions to have an
ADDED effect on the climate, when we already know that the LITTLE ICE
AGE HAS ENDED.  And nature HAS to play fair; those are the rules.   So
THEREFORE, it follows that CO2 and methane emissions CAN'T affect the
climate; that would be double jeopardy.
ALSO, the rules say that natural phenemena can't be too confusing.  So
if the coal and oil companies can point to ONE set of factors that
might explain some of the global warming we're seeing, the law of
Scientific Simplicity says that nature can't confuse the issue by ALSO
allowing the planet to heat up because of greenhouse gas emissions.
And so, BECAUSE THE LITTLE ICE AGE HAS JUST ENDED, we can PROVE that
so-called "greenhouse warming" is IMPOSSIBLE.  As well as unprofitable
for big energy companies, of course.
It's just as simple as that!
<quote>
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    @The_Sage: "<quote>
A short little quiz:
1) When a Little Ice Age ends, will the temperatures go:
   a) up
   b) down
   c) remain the same
HINT: the answer is a) up.
Exactly. There is no correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures. CO2 levels
have been at a constant 280ppm for the last 2,000 years, and during that time
temperatures have gone up 1�F higher than today (during the Medieval Warm
Period) and they have gone down 2�F (during the Little Ice Age). CO2 levels were
at 180ppm when the last glaciation ended 16,000 years ago, and since then
temperatures have risen 16�F �2�F while CO2 levels rose 100ppm to the 280ppm
that has been with us for the last 15,000 years until starting in 1900. Now if a
100ppm rise in CO2 levels resulted in a 16�F temperature rise, why would an
additional 100ppm rise in CO2 levels only result in a 1�F temperature rise? Not
one single proponent of Global Warming has a working model that can account for
this. During the Late Ordovician Period, CO2 concentrations were a staggering
4400 ppm (12 times higher than 1998 levels), yet temperatures were no higher
than today.
Clearly CO2 levels are a very minor factor in determining in global
temperatures.
No.
If there were no greenhouse effect, we would all be dead. Without a greenhouse
effect, temperatures would be a whopping 91.4�F colder than now!! Of that 91.4�F
difference, CO2 only accounts for 2 or 3 of those degrees.
Clearly CO2 levels are a very minor factor in determining in global
temperatures.
Stop blaming humans for something they could never do.
Amen.
   "[Water vapor and carbon dioxide produce a greenhouse effect which gives the 
   Earth a temperature 33� C more than it would have without these gases]. 
   Although estimates of the contribution from water vapor vary widely, most 
   sources place it between 90 and 95% of the warming effect, or about 30-31 of 
   the 33 degrees. Carbon dioxide, although present in much lower concentrations
than water, absorbs more infrared radiation than water on a per-molecule 
   basis and contributes about 84% of the total non-water greenhouse gas 
   equivalents, or about 4.2-8.4% of the total greenhouse gas effect". (Cold 
   Facts on Global Warming. 2006. T.J. Nelson. Retrieved on May 13th, 2007 from 
   <url>
The Sage
=============================================================
<url>
"Ours is the age that is proud of machines that think and
suspicious of men who try to"  H. Mumford Jones
============================================================="
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