@cor: " Original Message 
Subject: Bush Support Crumbling
Date: 29 Aug 2005 01:00:48 -0500
From: <email_address>
Our Arrogance Will be the End of Us by Christine Rose
"At first, I thought How dare you say that about my America," she
said looking at me through squinted eyes, "but then I saw it, our
arrogance will be the end of us."  She explained to me how she and
her husband voted for Bush. She said they were conservative and
watched Fox News regularly; however, something touched her in seeing
and hearing everyday people from around the world talk about her
beloved country as a bully; a hypocrite. Something touched her when
faced with the sobering charge of War Crimes and the images of
torture at the hands of Americans under orders from the US Government.
Something touched her that day that made her think about what she
thought she knew.
This woman said these things to me after watching a test screening
of a new documentary called Internationally Speaking.
Ive been doing this, political activism, a short time, relatively;
but it never ceases to amaze me how much people care. How one
instant, one piece of information can open a persons mind to something
they didnt see before.
More and more American citizens are losing support for Bush and
losing support for this war in Iraq.  They are learning certain
things, with increasing speed. These things the activist community
knew before the war started: that we were opening a dangerous can
of worms by attacking Iraq.
Cindy Sheehan knows how one instant can change your life forever.
Other Mothers who have lost sons know. Now Mothers and Fathers and
Sisters and Brothers are learning this before its too late. Still
there are those who think their voice is futile.
Last week at the post office I was speaking with a Postal worker
about Camp Casey. I respect what shes doing, the woman had said to
me, but hell never talk to her. He cant, because then hell have to
talk to everyone.
I said. Exactly. Cindy Sheehan deserves answers. This country
deserves answers.
I have three sons in Iraq, the woman told me, one of them " its his
third time over.
You should go to Crawford! I replied.
Well, my sons arent dead yet
I told her that was the best time to go " before they died. Its
getting to that point, folks. People are starting to wake up and
speak up before it hits their little box of reality.
As Cindy said, "If you fall on the side that is pro-George and
pro-war, you get your ass over to Iraq, and take the place of
somebody who wants to come home. And if you fall on the side that
is against this war and against George Bush, stand up and speak
out."
Its far passed time to speak out, America " stand up in solidarity
with Cindy. Speak out in your local communities. Write letters to
the editor. Lets generate a sound heard around the world " America
says NO to this war. America says NO to torture and abuse. America
says NO to occupation. America says NOT ONE MORE PERSON WILL DIE
because of this war.
Speak up, America. Stand up. Lets roll.
Christine Rose is an activist and filmmaker. Her films include
Liberty Bound (<url> & Internationally Speaking
(<url> She can be reached at
<email_address>
<url>"
    @grand: "<quote>
The best way to support our troops, is to hold responsible those that 
took us to war with false reasons. Our troops sacrifice was based upon a 
pack of lies, and they deserve justice by bring an impeachment inquiry."
    @grand: ""Sanders Kaufman" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:jeIQe.41$<email_address>
<quote>
No, when the Rupbs run for cover in the next election they can cut 
themselves loose only by opening the impeachment inquiry, otherwise the mill 
stone of Bush's Iraq will sink um'. I mean, it will be their patriotic duty 
to support the troops and haul those administration criminals, who put them 
in Iraq, to justice. "
    @grand: ""cor" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Did administration officials state a case for war that was unsupported by 
the intelligence presented to them?
Did the administration create within the CIA an office that manufactured 
intelligence, using discredited but plausible sources to give cover to 
administration officials by fitting the intelligence to support the policy?
Was the work of the Office of Special Plans subjected to agency peer review? "
    @grand: ""Frank" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:pyKQe.5351$<email_address>
<quote>
Naw, your just worried that the frustration over Iraq will not blow off 
enough steam with the anti war, 'pull out now crowd'. It is easy to say 
protesters are disloyal for not supporting the policy, and don't support the 
troops who have sacrificed so much.
What is not easy to say is that the troops to war based on lies, and no one 
is held accountable. We can't just pull out of Iraq now, not like Viet Nam. 
So, where does frustration and  anger go?  To bring to justice those that 
are responsible for getting us in this mess for reasons unsupported by facts 
and outright lies. This is our patriotic duty and loyal support for our 
troops. These men and women are there fighting for us, we owe them no less 
than an impeachment inquiry. "
    @grand: "<quote>
According to the minutes, Dearlove stated, "military action was now seen 
as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam through military action, 
justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence 
and facts were being fixed around the policy."
The Downing Street Minutes July 23, 2002"
    @dhomuth1: "On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 00:17:58 -0700, grandwazoo <email_address>
wrote:
<quote>
And it was either Perle or Wolfowitz who later observed that the
reason that the WMD and Terrism threats were used as the primary
rationales was because they were the only ones folks inside the
administration could agree on using.
Whether or not they were Real didn't matter."
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
Which would be right up its rhetorical ally in not dealing with the
Actual History of oil discovery and production in the area.
Which, come to think of it, You might like to bone up on some as well,
since your suggested statement reeks of Adamant Ignorance.
Try going here to refresh your Knowledge of the history of oil
discovery and production in the Middle East:
<url>
Isn't Education Wonderful?"
    @grand: ""Don Homuth" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
That's were the lying part comes in. You can't have Nigerian yellow-cake and 
eat it too. "
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
No one's trying to Convert you  just to educate you.
Since you prefer not to be educated, your future discussions may well
be considered in that light.
Doesn't matter to chad75@example.com.
The History of Middle Eastern oil is Known.
Just not to you."
    @grand: ""J.C." <email_address> wrote in message 
news:bX_Qe.6112$<email_address>
<quote>
But they didn't say those things, instead they manufactured a 'pack of lies' 
and played upon our fears. If it was about the flow of oil, it was flowing 
better before the invasion. No, our men and women are being killed for 
reasons that turned out to be a lie. Paint it as freedom or democracy and 
being on a nobal mission, but the fact remains they are there on a lie. 
Someone needs to be held accountable for the criminal conspiracy that put 
our troops in harms way. "
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
The investment paid off handsomely.
No US oil company lost money in the Middle East.  They just didn't
make as much as they would have preferred."
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
Heh!  Love those discussions, based on No Information.
But even so, they are not Iraq's, even if they do exist.
Yeah  and Chalabi's "informants" discussed Weapons Trailers, nuclear
programs and a Terrist Training Camp at Salman Pak too.
Strange thing is that Your lot believes them, when there's no reason
to do so."
    @dhomuth1: "On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:40:40 -0700, "grandwazoo" <email_address>
wrote:
<quote>
Once again, it's a Lie if and Only if the Truth is Known and
deliberately contravened.
OTOH, claiming to Know something when you really don't resides in a
gray area of Plausible Deniability.  And this administration has
proven itself a master of that PR technique.
"It's what the Intelligence said."
True, but if the Intelligence is deliberately sorted out to provide
Only certain sorts of information, or if you pay someone to tell you
what you Want to hear, that's a tad more sophisticated than a Mere
Lie.
In this case, you can't have chad75@example.com."
    @grand: ""Don Homuth" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
That's why it is a conspiracy. You would think our representives would want 
to make an inquiry. At some point, it become more than glarring omission on 
their part. "
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
I know folks who live Here who don't know anything much about the
history of what's gone on.
OTOH, the source cited provides information that (a) he didn't have,
(b) at the very least adds to what he provided, and (c) by his own
admission he simply didn't Want to know.
His mind is Made up and should not be clouded with Facts.
Which is Adamant Ignorance as defined.  A common failing amongst the
Ideologically Certain."
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
Why, none whatsoever.  Once paid off, there's no future complaint
worth bothering with.
Middle East oil never lost a Dime for any US company."
    @dhomuth1: "<quote>
We have evidence of a Tunnel.
I will stipulate, for the sake of discussion, that Syria has a tunnel
or two out there  just as many other nations do.
I am not prepared to accept that a picture of a tunnel/cave is
evidence of what's in it.
That would be just Too Gullible, and we ought already to have learned
that lesson, to our considerable detriment."
    @dhomuth1: "On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:16:31 -0700, "grandwazoo" <email_address>
wrote:
<quote>
It's ass-covering, surely.  The limitations placed on the 911
Commission requiring them Not to consider whether the Intel was Fixed
ought to be a bother.  But I doubt that there's any solution to it.
A deliberate one.
It's that old "Be careful what you ask for  you just might Get it."
So there were places the Commission couldn't go, because the
congressional leadership wouldn't allow it.  Where it did and could go
are, however, sufficient for the present purposes."
    @grand: ""Sam Bam" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Like the 911 whitewash, they did not look at how the intel was used. They 
didn't by reasons of their authority, evaluate the decisions of policy 
makers. Seems they left out important considerations like 'able danger' 
intel. The whitewash was saying there was no political influence on 
intelligence agencies, but fail to mention the Office of Special Plans, nor 
even looked at that aspect influence. That unfounded assertion was at the 
insistance of the Repugs. The issue has not been put to rest. "
    @dhomuth1: "On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:33:57 GMT, "Sanders Kaufman"
<quote>
Or words to that effect.
On what grounds?  Nobody ever asked him.
Don't forget it.
Don't forgive it either."
    @grand: "<quote>
That would be true, you can support the president without being a 
loyalist. That would be the benefit of the doubt that we would give to 
any president, however there is no longer any doubt. Total opposition is 
required to block his initiatives, until the rest of you all can come to 
your senses."
    @grand: "<quote>
The light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe it's "thousand points of 
light" or end of tunnel light lite, maybe the "new world ordum". Lot's 
of strange and mysterious thing will be seen in that tunnel. Maybe we'll 
find bin Ladden or Cheney hiding place in there."
    @grand: "<quote>
Snicker, yah comming from sam, who not only does not get it, but intends 
to stay closed minded, ever recyling the same tired and discredited 
articles, the true believer willing to hold on the lies no matter how 
big the truth."
    @cje: "news:<email_address>
<quote>
I may owe you an apology, Sam. I have always thought you were stupid. But
now looking at this post, I'm thinking it's maybe that you've got an alcohol
problem. Is that it? There's help available.
Curt"
    @cje: "news:<email_address>
<quote>
used
to
Iraq
alcohol
My frifge is stocked just fine.
You really ought to look into treatment. I'm sure the state will pay for it.
Curt"
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