@thisnthat: "Hi,
Does anyone have any idea if there is a product on the market designed 
specifically to do NAT ?
Ideally, it would be a very small device, and could be added to an existing 
network segment.....or added inline to a wireless bridge (w/o NAT) to 
provide NAT?
Thanks in advance,
DanS"
    @thisnthat: "John Navas <email_address> wrote in
news:<email_address>: 
<quote>
Yes, it has to be small. It is to be packaged in with an EVDO modem and a 
24v-to-12v converter.
DanS"
    @thisnthat: "John Navas <email_address> wrote in
news:<email_address>: 
<quote>
Here, something like this, <url> but 
eth-to-eth with NAT.
DanS"
    @jeffl: "DanS <email_address> hath wroth:
<quote>
24VDC?  Is this going on a big tractor or diesel generator?
An EVDO modem would require a serial or USB port to ethernet router.
You might wanna look at:
<url>
<url>
and see if they fit your application.  The list of supported protocols
on the Xport-AR is extensive, but doesn't appear to include NAT.
However, there are 3rd party developers that sell the missing
protocols including NAT:
  <url>
Also, if you wanna make prototyping easy, you'll need one of these:
  <url>
Jeff Liebermann     <email_address>
150 Felker St #D    <url>
Santa Cruz CA 95060 <url>
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    (464)853-2585"
    @thisnthat: "Jeff Liebermann <email_address> wrote in
news:<email_address>: 
<quote>
I can't really say. 
Nope. I've used the X-Port in designs before. The EVDO device desired by 
the customer is made by Airlink, and has ethernet on it. The ethernet 
side can be configured like a bridge, and pass the internet IP onto what 
ever device is connected to it. Or, you can specify a private 192.168.x.x  
IP for it to DHCP to the connecting device and the Airlink box will do (a 
lame implementation of) NAT, to that IP. One-to-one NAT only, just to 
that one single IP it DCHP's out. So it could hand out that one IP to a 
router device, and the router device NATting the wireless clients to that 
IP.
Originally we were looking at using the Senao/Engenius outdoor AP (NOT my 
idea), but as it turns out, those do not do NAT when in AP mode (?). I 
know, they are sold as bridges, but ........
I have been unable to find a similar small AP Router w/NAT and POE...any 
ideas ?
<url>
This is VERY interesting...and HOLY SH*T...6.1 miles from my companies 
head engineer's location in AZ. Not that I think we would even think of 
using the X-Port here, but he just eats this stuff right up. 
Here's an interesting device. I ran across this device from RAD in my 
current quest. It's called tiny router, and is essentially a full router 
in a slightly oversize DB25 shell. One side is ethernet and the other is 
your choice of V.24, V.35, V.36, RS-530, X.21; internal fiber optic or 4-
wire modems....which is why it's a no-go for my application.
<url>
X-Port not included. We've got a bunch of the X-Ports and proto boards 
already.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Regards,
DanS"
    @jeffl: "DanS <email_address> hath wroth:
<quote>
Ok, it's probably military.  Don't worry.  Nobody reads usenet news
any more so you're secret is safe.
This one?
  <url>
Perhaps you're using the wrong Airlink model?  See:
  <url>
  "For more advanced network requirements, the Raven-E also provides
  an option for either public or private IP (NAT), GRE/IP-SEC
  pass-through, and SNMP management."
I was reading the (Verizon EVDO) manual at:
<url>
and found a similar description of NAT operation on Pg64 if the
"private IP mode" is selected.  However, it seems that it only does
1:1 NAT in this mode.  In the "public network IP mode", it apparently
will do normal NAT with DHCP IP address delivery from the internal
DHCP server.  See Pg24.
Yech?  All bridges should pass broadcasts, which are necessary to pass
DHCP requests.  Something is wrong (somewhere).  Have you tried
sniffing the ethernet port on the Senao to see if broadcasts are
passed?
Yeah.  One of those "travel routers" sold by the commodity vendors.  I
don't think they'll do PoE, but probably can be powered by a small
DC-DC switcher.  One of the 78xx switcher plug compatible replacements
should work.
<<url>
Alternative firmware is available if you feel like hacking.
<<url>
Jeff Liebermann     <email_address>
150 Felker St #D    <url>
Santa Cruz CA 95060 <url>
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    (464)853-2585"
    @thisnthat: "Jeff Liebermann <email_address> wrote in
news:<email_address>: 
<quote>
No not military !!!! I don't think they would go for 802.11 anything.
Yes it is the Raven.
We have tried all kinds of configurations with this to no avail. Almost 3 
days of experimenting. I'm not working on this myself, but helping out 
the guy who is.
There were some bizarre results. I can't remember the exact details right 
now, but I do know that in one instance, the Raven handed out the same 
private IP to 2 different devices, and it worked, the internet was 
available !!! We all know it should not have worked.
Maybe I'll have some updated info later on.
Thanks Jeff.
Regards,
DanS"
    @jeffl: "DanS <email_address> hath wroth:
<quote>
That was last years military.  Today's military is buying COTS
(commercial off the shelf) hardware.
  <url>
  <url>
Also, don't forget those rather high power 2.4 and 5.7GHz amplifiers
that are allegedly for "military and export" use.
Well, there are quite a few things that run on +24VDC.  You've sorta
eliminated tractors, generators, and military.  It could be avionics,
which is not likely because CDMA/EV-DO systems don't work very loganbryant@example.org.  They hear too many cell sites.  The baseline noise level
creeps up to the point where the receiver goes comatose and the
handset spends all its time trying to handoff to the strongest cell
site.  
There's not much left.  Solar power installations are sometimes 24VDC.
Some SCADA stuff runs on 24VDC.  Powered shipping containers sometimes
use 24VDC.  However, none of these have a size constraint, which
leaves me baffled.  Got any more clues?
(...)
Try again.  The docs clearly state that it supports DHCP IP delivery
which implies a functioning NAT.  It should work in the "public IP
network mode".  The description you gave of 1:1 NAT is very obviously
the same as the "private IP mode".  
Oh-oh.  I've seen the problem with mobile IP.  Also check if the
router hands out its own IP address.  That problem comes from setting
the DHCP server to deliver the entire /24 IP block and with ping
disabled.  If the DHCP server can't ping itself, it thinks it's own IP
address is available.
It's actually fairly easy to create a situation where two devices,
with different MAC addresses, get assigned the same IP address.  All
that's necessary is to have very long DHCP lease times, have one
device disappear, and power cycle the router causing the DHCP lease
table to clear.  What is suppose to happen under these circumstances
is that the router trys to ping the IP address before an IP gets
re-assigned.  If the device is gone, DHCP will happily give it to some
other device that's present.  When the old device, with the previous
IP address, reappears, it should immediately request a DHCP renewal,
get rejected, and start over requesting a new IP address.  However,
this process only starts at 50% of the lease time.  If the lease is
too long, it will not request a lease renewal, and will merrily try to
use its original IP address.  If your EVDO modem gets power cycled
often, I suggest you use the shortest possible DHCP lease time to
avoid the problem.  The only reason we don't see this effect too often
is that most home and office router are not power cycled regularly.
Hmmmm... intermittent power.  That makes it a +24VDC vehicular
application as all the others have constant power.  You're setting up
a networked mobile gambling operation in the back of a semi tractor
trailer and using the EVDO modem for the backhaul.
More clues?
Jeff Liebermann     <email_address>
150 Felker St #D    <url>
Santa Cruz CA 95060 <url>
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    (464)853-2585"
    @thisnthat: "Jeff Liebermann <email_address> wrote in
news:<email_address>: 
<quote>
Actually I was mistaken about the DC converter, and that was for the 
Engenius/Senao gear, which takes a 48VDC power supply on it's POE 
injector. It doesn't even work if you inject 24 Volts. So the vehicle 
this is supposed to go in is actually 12 volt, not 24.
More info Jeff is that I just set this up again. This time, the Raven was 
set to use a global addressing scheme. The AP and client (external client 
connected to a PC through a x-over cable), not a PCMCIA card, were 
configured @ 192.168.1.x. There was a WLAN connection between the 2 
wireless devices. The PC was static on that 192.168.1.x subnet to verify 
operation of the AP/Client.
The PC was then set to DHCP, and it DHCP'd a global 70.7.x.x global IP 
and the PC had internet connectivity thruough the EVDO network. I assumed 
this would work because the AP and WClient are bridging, not routing.  
Another PC/client setup was added. The PC initially on the 192.168.1.x 
subnet, to verify connectivity through it's client to both the AP and the 
other client.
The second PC was then changed over to DHCP, making this the second PC on 
the network trying to DHCP from the EVDO device thru the off-subnet 
wireless. The second PC did not get an address and after about 30 
seconds, I released the IP on the first PC, and just a few seconds later, 
the second PC was assigned a new IP, the same the first one had.
It's apparent that there can never be more than one IP used with the 
Raven device w/o using a router connected directly to it, be it a 
limitation of the Raven itself, or of the Sprint network, I don't know. 
All of the documentation for it also constantly refers to 'the connected 
device' and never uses a plural form.
On to the other topic.....yo posted a link to that Asus travel router. 
That is nice and small, but will not work in this application. The issue 
is that it has an external antenna, with a connector. Unless the AP has a 
built in antenna, like the Senao/Engenius gear, it would need to have a 
coax run to the antenna, minimum I think would be around 10 ft. Since 
this is not a high powered device, 15 dbm out, any coax loss would be 
huge, proportionally.
Are you familiar with the Senao/Engenius AP I am talking about 
?.....<url>
It's an all in one with POE meant for outdoor use, and in the picture it 
looks larger than it is in real life.
Thanks again for the discussion, we may be able to hammer something out.
Regards,
DanS"
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