@ClintonAberthny: "You can train them for months, give them rapid-firing guns and new
uniforms, pay them regularly with US taxpayer money, but take them where
the bullets fly, and Iraqi GI's balk like mules. "It's too dangerous for
us," they say.  "Let the Americans do the fighting".
Austin American-statesman article: "....While Iraqi forces were in the
forefront of Saturday's sweep though the semi-rural region (Operation
Lightning), it was clear the U.S. military was still the driving force.
"About two hours into the operation, for example, American forces voiced
concern that an area covered in tall grass had not been searched. An
Iraqi commander said he was reluctant to send his troops into the field
for fear of an insurgent attack.
"This is a dangerous area. We need helicopters and the American army,"
Iraqi Brig. Gen. Najim al-Ekabi said."
And indeed, American GI's eventually  had to risk their lives in the
"dangerous area", doing the job that the Iraq army too cowardly to
undertake.
Doesn't bode too well for President Bush's vaunted plan of "training
Iraqis to handle their own defense" does it?   If the Austin
American-Statesman article correctly reflects circumstances in Iraq,
then US ought to steel itself to anticipate a six- to ten-year stay in
Iraq....Years spent defending Iraqi's who refuse to defend themselves.
If we're lucky-real lucky- maybe not each and every one of those
hundreds of additional months will get an additional 70 US GI's
killed-70 being the number killed last month in Iraq.
Clint
<url>
P.S.  There is another alternative. Support our troops: BRING THEM HOME!"
    @thelongyellowstream: ""Clint" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
GI is a specifically US term for grunts, or footsloggers or cannon fodder, 
or whatever you want to call them."
    @jrob: "<quote>
Stands for Government Issue. I beleive it originated in WWII. 
I seem to remember having the same problem with South Vietnamese 
troops. They weren't really all that interested in fighting their 
relatives from the north. Mostly they were trying to go along 
with the occupying forces just enough so they didn't get killed 
themselves. "
    @lincolnfs: "On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 06:44:40 -0500, "Clint"
<quote>
This is EXACTLY why we shouldn't have liberated the Iraqis.
They didn't have the balls to overthrow Saddam themselves, and they
don't have the balls to fight for their own freedom."
    @lincolnfs: "<quote>
Yes, they could have and yet they didn't.
That kind of lays to rest all the arguments of those who claimed that
Saddam could not be overthrown without US intervention.
Precisely my point."
    @whosthat: ""Clint" <email_address> 
wrotenews:1117971107.b5080770b9b2a4b470943c198f54f17b@teranews:
<quote>
Our war in Iraq is like welfare at home, the horrible years of liberalism 
has permeated into every aspect of our society and it's ruining our 
military.
We go and give the Iraqi billions in welfare; in the form of doing 
everything for them, giving them money, signing them up for a military and 
paying them well and then not expecting anything out of them, nor any 
punishment for just leaving and deserting or actually turning traitor.
How could you expect black people in America for example, to ever get out 
of the perpetual beggar/welfare mentality state when you have racist white 
liberals constantly enslaving them with the attitude that the poor darkies 
need lots of help from their superior white liberals in the form of set 
asides, quotas, affirmative action, food stamps, free rent, welfare checks 
and more?
How can the Iraqis become independent when the same type of people go to 
Iraq and tell them that they just can't seem to get along without billions 
of dollars from their great white, superior brothers?
"Here little Iraqi!  Here is a uniform, $900, free this and free that, and 
would you please go into that field and shoot....you won't?  Oh, that's ok.  
We can't expect you to be brave and wonderful like us white americans, 
we'll do it for you!  See?  We did it for you.  Here is another $900 and 
free food and a place to sleep...now, would you go into that field and 
shoot the bad guys....no?  You won't?  <sigh>  Ok ok, we strong, white, 
superior Americans will show you AGAIN how to do it.".
And people wonder why nothing ever gets accomplished, except billions 
wasted on the largest incompetant social program this world has ever seen, 
run by the new crop of luzer-liberals, that generation destroyed by 
American liberal school teachers, infested with their stupid ideas and the 
racist mentality of the white liberal luzer.
-Mapanari-"
    @jrob: "<quote>
Right, we need to counteract that icky liberalism with a nice 
dose of corrupt theocratic third-world police state. That'll 
show 'em. 
So, let's go home then; there's never been any clear agenda there 
anyway. Let's see: we got Saddam, they had an election, they're all 
democratic and stuff, and "mission accomplished!". 
See, we _agree_ it's a waste of money. Hell, for what they're 
spending, they could just send every US citizen a check for 
$750K or something. Spread it around instead of giving all of 
it to Halliburton. 
...
You might as well know, all that "white man's burden" shit didn't get 
us anywhere in VietNam either. What's the saying about "doing the same 
thing and expecting a different result"? 
 J R"
    @whosthat: "J Rob <email_address> wrotenews:<email_address>:
<quote>
You chose which brand of totalitarianism you wish to live under; you chose 
the socialist-facist racist appeasment cowardly state.
I choose the nationalist, warmongering military industrial kick ass 
theocratic state.
At least under my state our kids will still be speaking engish instead of 
meskin or chinese in 30 years.
Actually, we should go home, after we've divided up Iraq into 3 autonomous 
federated states; Kurdistan, Shitland and Sunnylandia.  And then make 
Turkey and Iran give their northern and eastern provinces to Kurdistan like 
it used to be before they invaded, killed millions and slaughtered the 
Kurds and the Armenians.
Then we put an American enclave in the foothills above Kurdistan, about 100 
square miles, make it a territory of America and build a big fucking 
air/army/marine base there, permantely. This is our payment for saving all 
their asses.
Do this in one year, then leave.  They can fuck each other in the ass, blow 
each other up all they want, but they won't.  Because once you divide 
people by tribes and loyalty and let them live with their kind, it's ok.
The problem, just like in America, Europe and elsewhere, is when too many 
minorities flood into a country and become a majority.
The Sunnis will be pefectly happy having their own autonomous federated 
country.
Federated meaning all three countries will be like Austin, Georgetown, 
leander, Round Rock etc all being in the same or near county and working 
together, sometimes, for the common good but otherwise doing what the fuck 
they want.
I've never said it wasn't a waste of money.  All it is is a giant money 
grab by the Republicans to steal and siphon off what's left of the social 
security funds....just like the democrats did when they were in power by 
stealing all the money for welfare, kumbayah programs and ratholes.  To buy 
votes and to reward their constituents.  That's all it is.
But, BUT, if we're always going to take it up the ass as voters and have 
someone in power steal all our money, then I'd rather have the republicans 
steal our money blowing up ragheads and making Haliburton rich, than making 
nigroes and meskins by the millions comforatable with pink caddilacs, free 
food and housing and money to buy drugs and have babies with and financing 
the helpless-beggar-government-worker-industrial state.
It's becuase most people are basically ignorant and most people in 
government are doubly ignorant, they're ignorant AND lawayers.  None of 
them study history except Newt Gingrish and Bush and Rove and few others.
The majority of our "leaders" are used car salemen/ambulance chasers, the 
lowest of the low, the ones who are willing to lie, cheat and steal to 
raise money to buy public office and then stay there forever, by, lying 
cheating and stealing.
Besides, a government "mistake" always involves large sums of money coming 
from you, to someone else.  
And then your taxes are raised and your roads are turned into toll roads to 
pay for those "mistakes" that make a few very rich and the middle class 
poorer every year.
-Mapanari-"
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