@mohammadsidiquekhan: "hi,
oxygen is a very reactive element. it reacts with itself and many
other elements to produce compounds commonly found in the earth's
crust, oceans and the air. but there is a finite amount of oxygen on
earth. if we continue to burn elements in oxygen, are we not likely to
deplete the amount of oxygen available for breathing? the problem is
not limited just to carbon but several elements that burn in oxygen,
like sulpher and hydrogen.
instead of the energy intensive solutions being proposed for carbon
capture, would it not be sensible to use grown plants to produce
usable products like furniture or paper or plastics. oxygen may be
produced from the oceans through electrolysis and the hydrogen thus
produced used in manufacturing chemicals such as plastics. the plant
material that remains unused can then be buried deep underground for
thousands or millions of years and may in time transform into oil. i
am not sure how to limit the oxidation of other elements.
one thing is clear, the last remaining free commodity, air, cannot be
taken for granted as we luxuriously consume it with wreckless abandon."
    @dlzc1: "Dear mohammadsidiquekhan:
On Sep 13, 7:16 am, mohammadsidiquekhan
<quote>
Some non-trivial amount of oxygen arrives via the solar wind.  Most of
our oxygen comes from photosynthesis.  And apparently not from the
green stuff in the oceans, because only CO2 transpires into
seawater... oxygen does not.
Requires water.  We are short on water most places, year round.
Occasionally places have deluge, but for the most part, we gather and
suck every drop we can lay our hands on.
Don't burn them.
We can if we aren't simultaneously reducing the volume of plant life
that keeps us alive.
David A. Smith"
    @UncleAl0: "<quote>
[snip]
Chart the decrease in atmospheric oxygen content over time since the
start of the Industrial Revolution and fossil fuel burning, and get
back to us.  We're talking about 40 mi^3 of petroleum burned, plus
natural gas and coal.
Same for income redistribution from the productive to the
reproductive.  When everybody remaining is a crook, from whom do they
steal?
Uncle Al 
<url> 
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) 
<url>"
    @mohammadsidiquekhan: "<quote>
would it not be an idea to burn elements in fluorine? so we can
generate electricity with fluorine fuel cells instead!"
    @dlzc1: "Dear mohammadsidiquekhan:
On Sep 13, 10:33 am, mohammadsidiquekhan
...
<quote>
Fluorine is rare.  Fluorine is toxic to all life, in many of its forms
(CaFl2 is pretty stable, and "Teflon" is OK if you don't get it too
hot).  We use a lot of fossil fuels to make fluorine (currently).
Bad idea.
Better idea: population control, before Nature beats us to it.
David A. Smith"
    @bbx107XYZ: "<quote>
Oh, David, please... learn the proper symbol for fluorine. :-)
Your substantive comments are good.
bob"
    @dlzc1: "Dear Bill Penrose:
"Bill Penrose" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
I forgot to add:
- it takes almost twice as much (by mass) fluorine to oxidize the 
same compounds
- if you use fluorine as an oxidizer, then you have to carry that 
around as well (as you do with rockets)
I know, we are a bunch of pussies here on Earth.  If we had the 
sense to develop chitin exoskeletons, instead of calcuim-based 
internal skeletons... might not be so much of an issue.
David A. Smith "
    @newspam: "<quote>
Except for some of the incredibly inert compounds it forms. And as for
the really toxic ones...
Never say never. Organofluorine chemistry to make fluoroacetate has
been mastered by at least 3 species of Australian plants and also
others in Africa. Chemical warfare agents synthesised by plants
against grazing animals.
Some native mammals have co-evolved a tolerance too. See for example:
<url>
and
<url>
Usually made by electrolysis of an anhydrous eutectic salt mix with
copper piping. I have seen this done in a furnace in a lecture theatre
as a demo by Prof Hazeldene (sp?) in Manchester in the mid 70's. He
demonstrated the emisson of fluorine from the top of a long copper
pipe by putting hydrogen balloon in the path. The air smelled of
fluorine oxides. It is so reactive that few people have ever seen
elemental fluorine.
And I can't imagine it being done today at a public science lecture
with HSE & COSHH rules.
Regards,
Martin Brown"
    @dlzc1: "Dear Martin Brown:
On Sep 14, 1:16 am, Martin Brown <|||<email_address>>
wrote:
<quote>
I was surprised to find that ozone was made by marigold roots, and our
own white blood cells.  Nature is surely cunning...
I know this was not your point, but the salt had to be mined (fuel
used) and processed (at least electricity, some of which is based on
fuel) to get it to that point, and electric current is passed through
that salt mix (again some of which is produced by burning fuel).  So
*a lot* of oxygen is consumed to make the fluorine.
Thanks for the information.  This is why I hang around!
David A. Smith"
    @dlzc1: "Dear hanson:
... attributions corrected below ...
<quote>
[Smitty]
[Smitty]
...
[still Martin]
Keep it hanging...
David A. Smith"
    @bbx107XYZ: "<quote>
One distinction can be made... specific vs non-specific.
Fluoroacetate is a specific metabolic poison. It inhibits a specific
enzyme. (I won't look up which one, but it is in glycolysis, as I
recall.)
F2 is non-specific, causing much damage, as you note. And of course
some of the products from F2 will themselves be toxic, one way or
another.
F- is also a specific poison.
That doesn't quite answer your question, but maybe helps with some
perspective.
bob"
    @erauckman: "<quote>
What's with the Fluorine subtopic?  We are still fighting the drinking
water fluoridation issue and now we have PFOS and PFOA all around the
world - thank you 3M for scotchguard.
Question:  Is there any evidence that O2 levels in the atmosphere are
falling?  With CO2 rising from combustion, you might expect to see an
increase in the Nitrogen/Oxygen ratio. If we presume that all the
carbonates, sulfates, silicates and alumnates (I just made that word
up) in the earth came from atmospheric oxygen - how much oxygen did we
start with, would gravity hold that much in?  Is the capture of oxygen
from the solar wind enough to account for the balance?
Carbon dioxide buildup appears to be the biggest issue now. Plant a
tree, drive a smaller car, turn off the lights, capture CO2 and store
it, don't think about buying property near sea level.
NT"
    @dlzc1: "Dear Naked Truth:
"Naked Truth" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
...
<quote>
Yes.
<url>
... aluminates ...
Good question.  I always thought so.
A *lot* of trees.  Then find water for them.
Drive *no* car.
Go to connor87@example.net.
The trees will need it.  Do nothing with CO2.
As bark.
Buy it and turn it into a park.
If we don't control population, fossil fuels must be consumed. 
No other choices.
David A. Smith
(a class IV greenturd on the hanson scale... assuming hanson has 
defined one that low) "
    @dlzc1: "Dear hanson:
"hanson" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:S7eHi.2529$<email_address>
<quote>
;>)  Glad you got the laugh intended.
<QUOTE>
An interannual decrease in O/N is clearly evident in the La Jolla 
data.
<END QUOTE, referencing 1992 Keeling and Shertz>
Funny thing, they talk about the ocean playing a big part in O2 
changes, which is contrary to what I had read elsewhere.
Yet they also say that Keeling and Shertz show the ocean has a 
"big" part to play in changes on O2.
Don't lay out their campaign for them!  ;>)
Hmmmm...
Oh, it is a proportional scale, with increasing numbers 
indicating the inverse of applied IQ?
Can you be a "bonvivant" and not be "self-anointed"?
You are very welcome.  Joyous day to you.  Summer may finally be 
leaivng the Southwest USA...
David A. Smith 
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