@Heysford: "I was flipping channels on Thursday evening (22nd) at about 19:25 and it 
seemed to be a programme about art. As this bloke was twittering on 
about paintings of the Baltic Sea. I was about to change channels again 
when he started to talk about naturism on the Baltic coast.
He spoke about it's origins and 20th Century development and there was 
much B&W footage of classic FKK activities.
He then started to say how naturism in such a Northern climate was 
stupid and how the practitioners were deluding themselves that it was 
warm when it was actually very cold - so they showed modern film of 
people on beaches (no details as to which) wearing clothes in weather 
that looked like Marsh - when you would obviously wear clothes.
It was terribly amusing to watch someone purport to know what others are 
thinking and the way in which they are tricking themselves into thinking 
something is nice - when it obviously isn't. He said so, so it must be 
nasty.
Some people like to drink beer and tell me how wonderful it is. Even the 
smell of beer turns my stomach and so I do not drink it. Perhaps Mr 
Meades can tell me that I am imagining it? People like what they like.
The snippet of programme gave me a very good laugh and ensured I shall 
not readily listen to him again. What a remarkably arrogant twit!
Simon"
    @INVALID: ""Hamish" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<snip>
<quote>
On that logic, anyone frolicking in water with clothes on is 'slightly 
barmy', anyone laying, sitting or playing in the heat of the summer is 
'slightly barmy', anyone - especially children - playing in the sand 
(either in a pit or on the beach) whilst wearing clothing is 'slightly 
barmy' as not only can (beach) sand stain the cloth but it can get 
caught between cloth and skin which is far from a pleasure... "
    @Heysford: "<quote>
Purporting to know what other people are thinking is arrogant!
    Anyone
But they could well be wrong. A friend of mine has a completely 
different internal 'thermometer' to me. He prefers an outdoor 
temperature of 18 deg C. When it gets to 21 (and I thinking that it is 
warming up) he starts to feel uncomfortable. When it reaches 25 and I am 
very happy, he is lying in the coldest place he can find feeling 
physically ill from the heat.
Therefore, if people wish to frolick naked in March - I would not assume 
that they are hoodwinking themselves, as Meades said.
None of it. I am sorry if I did not make myself clear, what me laugh was 
the way that Meades asserted that he knew what other people were 
thinking and the way he described their behaviour - when he had not 
taken any trouble to find out.
I grant that the programme was about art and not naturism - but he 
started telling stories about naturists in a programme about art.
Simon."
    @davidlooser: ""Simon" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:483741e3$0$2491$<email_address>
<quote>
I missed that programme, having watched the first in the series. Meades 
comes over as opinionated and not afraid to present his opinions as "fact" 
(a bit like many posters to urn?). It makes for entertaining viewing, 
especially if you share his opinions (as I guess Hamish does), but does it 
make him "brilliant"? I think not.
David."
    @INVALID: ""David Looser" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<snip>
<quote>
Indeed Mr looser, indeed, do you have a mirror near your keyboard or 
was you monitor screen acting like one as you typed that comment?... "
    @astra4: ""David Looser" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Tell me David,  if you saw a group of naked people frollicking on a beach in 
March ( perhaps here on the n/e coast )  wouldn`t you smile & say " they 
must be barmy "  That doesn`t make you opinionated  does it.         Meades 
job is to report & of course he has an opinon, albeit slightly laconic.   He 
puts it over rather well i think.              Hamish. "
    @INVALID: ""Hamish" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:g18k1v$mph$<email_address>
<quote>
Ok, I'm not David (thankfully...) but to answer your question, no I 
would not, it's a bit like calling those who prefer cold baths 
'barmy' - just because you personally don't take them or understand 
why they do... Are those Swedish, Russian (and other northern 
Europeans) who first take a sauna and then either go out and roll in 
the snow or plunge themselves into a semi frozen lake all barmy or do 
they just have a different idea about health and well being? Stop 
being such a bigoted, short sighted, 'twit' Hamish! "
    @davidlooser: ""Hamish" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:g18k1v$mph$<email_address>
<quote>
Plenty of people swim in the sea (from the UK coast) right around the 
calendar, are they "barmy"? I'm too soft to enjoy that, but that is my 
problem, not theirs. And it can sometimes be pretty warm in March. It's a 
common human failing to assume that anyone who doesn't share our every 
opinion must be mad, bad, or ill-informed (or "barmy").
Doesn't it? I'd have said so.
Well indeed. I did agree that his style is entertaining. As I said listening 
to an opinionated person in full flow can be entertaining, especially if one 
shares the opinion.
David. "
    @davidlooser: ""bambi" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:nPRZj.1737$<email_address>
<quote>
Isn't that exactly what I said?
David."
    @davidlooser: "":Jerry:" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:g18k32$mro$<email_address>
<quote>
I said "many" posters to urn, and I will not exclude myself. As for who else 
the cap fits?, well there's you for certain, and quite a few others.
David."
    @INVALID: ""David Looser" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
'We' ALL do nothing but offer our opinions, so until Orwell's "1984" 
become a reality, is there any need to point out the bleeding obvious? "
    @tmf: "On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:54 Jerry offered the following opinion as fact:
<quote>
I try hard not to present my opinions as being other than my opinions,
although (inevitably?) sometimes I fail, or don't try hard enough, or
don't benjaminkennedy@example.com.
Separating fact from theory / hypothesis / suggestion / opinion /
whatever can be difficult, and even the presentation of factual
information can distort the totality of truth (IMO).  Some are better
than others at delivering objective and objectively balanced
collections of facts (IMO).
As to Orwell's _1984_, I don't recall there being anything in it about
an infallible fact vs opinion detector?
However that may (or may not) be, in answer to Jerry's question, I
think that sometimes there is a very real need to state the bleeding
obvious.
HTH"
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