@clive_long: "First a little diversion.
My mother's kitchen ceiling came down as a result of a very slow leak
from a shower pump on the floor above. Man what a mess! Boy did we
laugh! Now she was told that the ceiling artex might contain asbestos.
I scoffed. "They" were right. Luckily insurance paid for everything. I
think the most expensive part of the job was paying for the men in the
space suits to remove the artex.
Second diversion.
My dear old Dad used to work in industrial safety and one of their
profitable sidelines was to sell the space-suit respiratory systems
used by the people stripping asbestos. I vaguely know of "white/grey"
asbestos and the very nasty "blue" asbetos from my departed Dad.
Asbestos has fantastic thermal and heat resistant properties but
tended to do horrible things to those who worked for years with it. I
saw pictures of men shovelling "raw" asbestos in factories. Hence,
legislation to ban the use of the stuff. Don't know all the details
about asbestos but it kept food on our table.
End of diversions
I have bought a small Victorian terrace house in which two rooms have
been "improved" ... by artex on the ceiling. There are other roooms
with with painted anaglypta on the ceilings. It's a mess and it's all
coming off.
Now, I have seen adverts for companies that "specialise" in the
removal of asbetos - and to be honest some of them look like they do
it on an industrial scale for 70's built factories and office blocks.
So ... and this may be the paranoia .. how do I choose a company to
use? I am prepared (almost) for the job to be expensive. However, how
do I trust the results from the company when they take and analyse the
sample and come back saying "oh yes, sir ... asbestos be there"? The
removal of it seems a cosy, legislation-protected cartel to keep
prices high. Believe me, I have a little understanding that asbestos
can cause very nasty medical conditions following prolonged exposure.
But I'm tempted to buy a gallon of Nitromors, good goggles and hire a
forced air, small particulate dust mask and scrapre, scrape, scrape to
get rid of it. Though if I'm honest I wouldn't dump the resulting
asbestos gunge in the bin because of the asbestos - so the diy
approach does't seem to be available.
I have read that one can plaster over artex, and I have a quote for
that - but I just don't trust that approach (paranoia again) - I just
have visions of the new plaster slowly ... slowly detaching itself
from the artex "substrate"  and me waking up one morning with a
plaster over-blanket on top of me.
Experience anyone? Suggestions?
Thanks
Clive"
    @nbillingham: ""Clive" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Don't underestimate the amount of work involved or the amount of mess you 
can make.  You'll likely end up having to have the stripped ceilings skimmed 
with plaster anyway.
If it's a downstairs room then there will be substantial joists above.  The 
easiest thing is to screw a new plasterboard ceiling over the whole lot and 
start again.  I did this in a previous house over badly craked lath and 
plaster and had no problems.
I also had Artex skimmed level in a previous house.  With a good coat of PVA 
before the plaster, it worked fine, and there were no problems with 
detachment at least over the ten years we were there.
Hope this helps"
    @drlargepants: "<quote>
I had all the Artex skimmed over in my place and its fine.  It was
coated with PVA before hand and it aint come down yet!"
    @newspostc002: "In message <email_address>, 
Clive <email_address> writes
<quote>
you get an test done by an independent company, with no interest in the 
results
I. it may not contain asbestos anyway.
2. The asbestos is fine whilst in the artes, creating dust is the 
problem.
I've had artex skimmed, it's fine.
Though I'd go for the overboarding with plasterboard approach (with a 
skim if you want)
The latter is DIY-able - maybe not the skim.
Chris French"
    @owain47125: "<quote>
If the artex is later than about the mid 1980s it won't contain 
asbestos. (Check web for actual date.) One of your neighbours might 
remember when the previous occupant "did the place up"
In many areas you can take small quantities of non-trade-waste asbestos 
to a designated council tip.
If you don't trust wet plaster skimming you could plasterboard over it, 
held up with screws. That would be unlikely to come down in a hurry. 
Bear in mind there is probably a reason why the ceilings were 
artexted/anaglyptad in the first place.
Before you worry too much about asbestos in the artex have you seen 
what's in the water tanks?
Owain
PS watch out for gas lighting pipes that are still live."
    @peter: "On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:28:04 -0700, Clive <email_address>
wrote:
<quote>
It probably will be and its simpler simply to assume it is. Artex was
is an asbestos cement product and contained as its major ingredients
chalk (calcium carbonate) and gypsum plaster (calcium sulphate).
Typically the dry powdered mix for trade use Artex contained about
3.8% w/w of chrysotile asbestos and the ready mixed DIY product about
1.8%. 
It is an enormous fraud, but Artex removal does not require the use
of a licensed contractor. Despite furious lobbying by the asbestos
scam industry it was removed from the regulatory regime by the
Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006 because the risk is negligible.
If it is removed then whoever removes should be appropriately trained
but does not need to be licensed.  This means most local plasterers
or builders could undertake the work or you can DIY.
The safest and best way of dealing with it is to simply skim over the
top with plaster. This doesn't have so much to do with its Chrysotile
content as the fact that Artex is very difficult to remove without
destroying the ceiling and even when possible is an enormously messy
and time consuming task.  Left alone or covered with plaster it is no
health whitejenna@example.org.
It's quite available - most councils have at least one local amenity
waste site registered to take asbestos cement waste brought by
private individuals.
Peter Parry.   
<url> "
    @tallymo2: "<quote>
I work for a university and my office is in a building that is soon to
'treated' for asbestos.  The building has 6 upper floors and at least
2 basement levels and each floor of the building is going to be
evacuated including desks and files for several weeks at a time.  The
treatment for each floor will involve hermetically sealing each floor
and then employing air treatment machines until the air is found to be
clean.
But this method is probably necessary because some floors of the
building are open plan.
For your problem, is it feasible to rip out the entire ceiling?
Hopefully it is plasterboard in which case you could spray or paint a
sealant onto both sides and take the ceiling out piece by piece.
Even if the ceiling is lath and plaster your house might have to be
evacuated
for a week or more.  In which case then if you have removed the
infected crap then
you could hire air treatment plant and employ a environmental
monitoring technician to monitor the air treatment test results.
Just my tuppence worth.
Arthur"
    @a: "<quote>
There you are, the sane sensible answer you wanted.
Asbestos was only ever dangerous in high concentrations as *dust*. 
Shoved in landfill its just another load of mineral waste.
Peter is dead right, the stuff sticks like shit to a shovel, and since 
one of its most common uses was to cover up the paper that had been 
applied to keep the ceiling up. if there is any sign that the ceiling 
itself is dodgy, or you can combine this with a bit or pipe and cable 
laying to justify it, rip the whole ceiling down and replace with 
plasterboard. Shove the old plasterboard in a skip, or plastic bags and 
take to the dump. Act dumb 'it's plasterboard. that's all'"
    @None: "Artex removal
Hire a wallpaper steamer and a scraper to scrape it off...........Messy but 
it does work "
    @clive_long: "Thanks for all your help and advice.
I have contacted <url> and I will
carefully take the samples from the two rooms, send them in double
sealed bags, my cheque for =A340 then await the results from an
independent lab.
Thanks again.
Clive"
    @onetap: "<quote>
No thanks, I've had some already.
Removal contractors are usually the worst gang of devious,
incompetent, unscrupulous rip-off merchants that you'll ever have the
misfortune to encounter.
Many of those in the trade flout the regulations with utter disregard
for their own and everyone elses' safety. They mostly have no interest
in their own welfare, beyond where the next drink is coming from, and
they're certainly not bothered about yours. They usually tape off the
area, more to prevent you seeing what they're doing than to contain
the fibres. They then bash the asbestos-containing material into dust
with a shovel and the shovel it up, confident that no one will come
through the barriers to see what they're doing.
They then issue a certificate, saying the area is clear.
The only way you'll be sure they're not ripping you off is by learning
more about the business than they do and chucking them off site when
they start the dodgy practices.
You're welcome."
    @dennis: ""clot" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:6rPri.6654$<email_address>
<quote>
You appear to misunderstand then.
One exposure can give you asbestosis.
Multiple exposures just increases the chances.
However IIRC its not much worse than smoking and people still do that.
Just don't saw, sand, etc. asbestos anywhere near me or my family."
    @peter: "On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:44:23 +0100, "dennis@home"
<quote>
Standing in the street can get you hit by a falling aircraft.
Amphibole (Blue and Brown Asbestos) fibres stay in the lung for a
very long time and are the most hazardous.  Chrysotile (White
asbestos used in asbestos cement product) is both structurally and
chemically different from the amphiboles, stays in the lungs a much
shorter time and is significantly less hazardous.
With both types there is a well established dose/time relationship
with illness.  The greater the exposure and the longer the time of
exposure the greater the risk.  The vast majority of asbestos related
deaths are in people who have had heavy industrial exposure for many
years.  The greatest risk today is amongst people employed daily in
the renovations and repairs of older buildings.
Every day everyone has some exposure to Asbestos, it is present in
microscopic amounts in the atmosphere (and quite large amounts on
London Underground).  One exposure to Amphibole Asbestos could in
theory  give you mesothelioma or lung cancer (it won't cause
asbestosis) but the chances of it doing so are vanishingly small. The
chances of one exposure to Chrysotile doing so are on a par with that
aircraft hitting you on the head.
Multiple exposure to large amounts increases the chances hugely.  The
risk from occasional exposure to asbestos cement products is so low
that in the process of demolishing an asbestos cement shed, packaging
the remains and driving it to the tip the most hazardous part of the
process would be the drive to the tip.
Peter Parry.   
<url> "
    @a: "<quote>
Indeed. No one wants to think in terms of national cost benefit..how 
much more money would be available for healthcare if we stopped wasting 
it on getting rid of extremely minimal health hazards.
I think its really because social sciences grads can't do sums. Even 
taking off their socks and using their toes.."
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