@probably_spam: "Is it truly a deserted island ?
I Googled for the island and diving and came up with some Horizon dive 
trip reports but that was about it. The island(s) sure look spectacular 
from the above water pictures and the under water pictures looked pretty 
interesting too ... no coral, but greeeeeen sea grass and lots of other 
life.
Any first hand experiences diving there ?
Thanks.
-Sven"
    @mossman: "news:<email_address>
<quote>
Of course not.  Nowhere in Mexico can you find a truly deserted area.
Guadalupe was the site of several failed goat ranches and there are plenty
of goats still roaming wild.  As for human population, there is a Mexican
naval weather station permanently located there on the south end as well a
seasonal fishing camp on the northwest coast.  But don't expect a Camino
Real hotel and margaritas on the beach.  You probably need permission to
land there.
I've spoken with several people that have dove there and I've dove the San
Benito Islands (via the Horizon) which are closer to shore but in the same
general latitude.  In short, the diving is overall similar to that of
southern California (i.e. kelp forests and sea lions) albeit a few degrees
warmer and much more lush.  Guadalupe is distinguished from the other
Pacific Baja sites because of its attraction to white sharks which in turn
attract charter boats such as the Horizon.  The islands there are also
popular with fishermen - the natives hunt lobster and abalone, which are
forbidden to foreigners, while the tourists on fishing charters and private
boats get their fill of all sorts of tuna as well as record-sized
yellowtail.  Finally, Guadalupe Island is the namesake and maintains the
largest population of endangered Guadalupe fur seals.
The downside is that it's very remote (i.e. no convenient hospital or
chamber) and it's a long, long boat ride from San Diego (give or take 30
hours).  Otherwise, and especially if you don't get seasick, I
wholeheartedly recommend the diving around there as well as the fine boat
Horizon."
    @ohd: "Hi
Just returned from a 5 day liveaboard with 'Great White Adventures'
aboard the 'Searcher'. Our trip will be covered in the February edition
of Esquire, as reported by some of the participants on our trip. 
Never set foot on the island (you'd need to clear Mexican Customs on the
mainland).
Incredible opportunity to cage dive with juvenile Great White sharks (6
- 14')
Stay Wet!
<quote>"
    @probably_spam: "<quote>
Thanks Greg. You had more info than I'd gotten anywhere else. It sounds 
fascinating !  20 hours for the crossing actually adds to the appeal. I 
did and do have reservations about the distance to a chamber.
I'll check with the Horizon folks to find out more, we've never gone out 
with them.
Many thanks.
-Sven"
    @probably_spam: "<quote>
No customs office on the island ?  :-)
Sounds peaceful compared to all the fires around here !
Any shark trip pictures ?
Thanks.
-Sven"
    @illpass: "news:<email_address>
<quote>
As of now it is indeed. The island itself is a bio-preserve. There is a
weather station (unmanned) and a couple deserted fishing camps. To visit the
island you have to have special permission, which after receiving requires a
customs/immigration check at the closest port, which probably means Ensenada
coming and going (passports, baggage, and vessel checks). Not to mention
another customs/immigration check when arriving Port of Sand Diego, since
you will have officially left the country. Probably not a worthwhile
expenditure of time since the seals and sea lions are in places you cannot
access on foot. We took a dinghy/panga/inflatable and cruised the shore to
get our shots. I hadn't seen Elephant Seals before so that was a worthwhile
sideline, even though we knew the water below was rife with Great Whites.
Also Guadalupe is almost devoid of birds. Sure, some are there, but in
general for a solitary rock in the middle of the ocean Guadalupe is
practically birdless. One look at the cliffs, and seeing liitle birdshit,
tells you the birds don't like it here as much as other seamounts. Spending
some time around the island confirms that notion.
I was on Horizon the week of  10/19 to 10/24 for a Great White trip. It was
fantastic. We had GW's everyday and 7 on one day. Doc says they have yet to
be skunked (Doc Anses that is, who runs the sharking operation). Mark is an
excellent cook/chef, no wont there and even though the boat is small
(essentially a bunkboat) it only felt that way during the crossings, which
can be quite nasty on the return.  Crew was great and well deserving of as
much gratuity as one could afford to leave. They were that good. Horizon
isn't the best boat I have been on for a ocean crossing, but it makes it
back and forth and I guess that is all one should really expect :^)
On the subject of Great Whites at Guadalupe: This place is truly a treasure.
I have chased White Tips to S Africa and Australia and never have they been
as productive lindawhite@example.net. It is truly a special thing to have multiples
of sharks and no skunk days. As anyone who has visited other Great White
areas knows you can spend thousands of dollars and weeks of time, and never
even get a sniff. Guadalupe is a real treat and an extraordinary location as
it relates to Great White sharks. Also the sharks at Guadalupe are
aggressive, unafraid of bubbles, and constantly on the hunt. Their hunting
protocols are slightly different from what I have seen other places,
probably because they are so bold. We had sharks from 6 feet to 19 feet
(meaning juvenile to adult) so on the whole not quite as large as seen in S
Africa, but far more sharks to see, far more action to witness, and water
that is clear (water in S Africa and Australia can be so bad that getting in
the water when a shark is present is a useless task).
I cannot impress upon people who haven't traveled for Great Whites before
how special **IN THE WORLD** Guadaupe is. Horizon is a few hours away from
anywhere in the continental US and Guadalupe is 24 to 26 hours from
Horizon's dock. It is simply a splendid opportunity for those wishing to
visit or photograph Great Whites
If this interests you, go as soon as you can because the scuttlebutt is that
Mexican authorities are going to be on boats soon watching the dive
operations and drafting a plan to administer tourism at the island. This
could mean higher prices, fewer divers, fewer boats and possibly no divers
and boats while they conduct a *study* on the habitat. As it is, only three
American boat conduct sharking ops there. Of course the sharking ops only
take place Sept, Oct, Nov each year as this is when the sharks are present.
Horizon is more than half booked for next years trips and fully booked this
year so the slots are going fast. I suspect Oddesey and Searcher (the other
two boats that "shark" Guadalupe) are booked to similar levels as well."
    @ohd: "Hi Sven
There's really no permanent settlements on Ilsa de Guadalupe. We spent
the entire trip anchored in, what the crew called, Discovery Bay. The
actual name of the location is Prison Beach. The remnants of the habitat
of a sorry individual who was caught having an affair with the President
of Mexico's wife, in the 1860's, was the only sign of civilization we
saw for 2 days. Prison Beach is on the Northeast side of the island. We
didn't have to go elsewhere because of the 'sharkiness' of the location.
At one point on the last day we had 5 Great Whites cruising around the
Searcher. On the third day some of the Mexican fishermen from the
village, at the south end of the island, dropped by to barter 'Guadalupe
Chicken' for beer and smokes. In addition to the fishing village, we
were told there is a small Mexican navy presence. I got the impression
it was not a base.
Some of our passengers were inquiring as to the possibility of taking a
helicopter back to San Diego, to avoid the threat of a rough trip home.
They were informed that to do so would require going ashore and that was
not possible as we had not cleared Mexican Customs and as such would be
in violation of Mexican/US treaties.
Yes, I hear that the fires are getting worse! I think we got the last
stage out of 'Dodge' on Sunday. The outdoor airport staff were wearing
paper masks and you could see ash drifting through the air.
If you send me your e-mail address, I'd be happy to share some of our
memories with you.
Regards
Dave Kwasek
<email_address>
<quote>"
    @probably_spam: "<quote>
It sounds outstanding for shark diving.  We've never done shark diving 
so I'm having trouble visualizing the schedule. Once you get there after 
a 20+ hour crossing, how much time do you actually get in the water and 
is it all in the cage with hooka air or do you get to do free scuba if 
you don't chum ?
What if you want to just scuba without sharks ?  Do you go December to 
August and just hope the sharks are on vacation ?  Are fishermen and 
scuba divers always intermixed or are the Horizon trips just diving ?
I've certainly learned a lot the last couple of days !
-Sven"
    @probably_spam: "<quote>
That would have added a bit to the vacation expenses !!
At this point I'm glad we're no longer living in Crestline. The 
magnitude of the fires is unreal.
The one in the header is real and should get through:
  <email_address> 
Thanks !
-Sven"
    @illpass: "news:<email_address>
<quote>
treasure.
On the Horizon (I don't know how the other boats operate):
There are two 4-man cages. They take 16 divers. So the rotation is one hour
in the cage for 8 people and the next hour the other 8 people, and so on and
so on until 5:30 in the evening. There is a 30 minute lindawhite@example.net. It
all starts at 7:00 in the morning or whenever the sharks appear. You end up
getting 4 or 5 hours in the cages each day. Yes it is a hooka rig. They use
the DUI weigh system (which I personally thought was
ill-designed/ill-fitting) which will keep you stuck to the bottom of the
cage.
Well, during Sept. to Nov. that would be ill-advised. In my experience with
Great Whites Guadalupe is one place I would say you are almost certain to be
taken. These sharks are active and "in your face". Not nearly as circumspect
as others I have seen. There is absolutely no way I would get in the water
with these animals at this location. There are a lot of juveniles at
Guadalupe and once one of the older bigger sharks make an appearance the
younger smaller sharks get very active and aggressive. It's a strange thing
to see, but is played over time and time again. Given this level of activity
diving here during these months is incredibly risky.
Not a lot of scuba is done there. Indeed I can't really see a reason for
making two 26 hour crossings just to scuba Guadalupe. The channel islands
will offer more on a much shorter duration.  But Guadalupe is world renown
for it's free-diving. A number of world record fish have been taken there.
So there are months when Horizon and boats like it take free-divers there
for the hunting....of course, not the sharking months though.
Horizon is actually a recreational fishing boat, but it is used for fishing,
scuba and sharking trips, though not mixed trips. Of course on the sharking
trips people fish in order to have a handy supply of chum on hand, and a
good tuna catch will make it to the plates at the supper table. On my trip
most people fished when they weren't in the cage. We had sharks taking tuna
of our fishing lines."
    @mossman: "news:C8aob.15$<email_address>
<quote>
My local shop did a charter a few years back which took in the San Benito
islands as well as Guadalupe.  The following year (when I went) we opted to
stay at the San Benitos the entire time.  It is a long boat ride, but worth
it.  Sure, the local channel islands are a much shorter duration (though not
"much" when you consider that Cortez Banks is a 10-hour ride), but they
certainly don't offer more.  The San Benitos was easily the lushest kelp
diving I have ever done, in the clearest water (100+' of viz on many dives),
and the warmest water temps (72-73 degrees).  We also fished on the way
down, enjoying plenty of albacore and one blue fin, and several free divers
on the trip kept our bellies full of yellowtail sashimi.  Unfortunately, now
that San Diego Shark Diving and Absolute Adventures are chartering the
Horizon Charters boats for 8 white shark trips each, it appears there aren't
any diving charters going down there."
    @illpass: "news:<email_address>
<quote>
islands
renown
there.
there
to
worth
not
An extra 16 to 18 hours of boat riding is "much" to me. Were Guadalupe just
10 hours from San Diego there would be another 5 or 6 hours of cage diving
available to each guest, or earlier departure times, making flight
connections easier. As it is right now it is almost necessary to overnight
both coming and going to meet their 8:30 AM boarding time and 4 to 5 PM
return time. The difference between a 10 hour run and a 26 hour run is
huge....obviously 32 total hours for the whole trip.
dives),
divers
I was referring to Guadalupe, not San Benitos. Channel islands will
certainly offer more than Guadalupe (which I have dived, free-dived and now,
sharked). And in that sense a 26 hour crossing makes no sense, at least, *to
me*.
aren't
It's a long expensive run and 26 hour crossings really beat up the Captains
and crew. They will do custom trips down there for the price. I just don't
think there is enough interest in going down there to make it a scheduled
trip. Horizon crew told me they made the trip to San Benitos 2 or 3 times
this year already. It ends up being whatever dive shop wants to charter and
pay for that trip."
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