@fiftystories: "Since there's hasn't been for some time a topic dedicated to writers
especially, I was wondering which writers, scriptwriters and dialogue
w., do you like the most? I'm interested in all CBS soaps, but maybe
the most in your opinion on new Y&R dialog writers.
If you have time, please weigh in. Thanks!"
    @Shinn14V: "<quote>
The dialogue itself on Y&R isn't the problem, and in fact, this
group has given characters some good zingers. But IMO the
storytelling itself is abominable  holes galore (missing details
that have viewers asking, "did I miss something?"), characters
who look and sound different from scene to scene, and
stories that do not flow smoothly or make much sense. Not to
mention the entire show revolves around deaths, deaths, deaths.
Aside from little nuances, if it's flowing smoothly and everyone is
telling the same story (not the case with this group), shouldn't
be a huge difference in dialogue from one day to the next. Seems
there is no quality control, current writers are not "on the same
page" with how each character is supposed to come across, and
they're each telling the story with a different twist  try and
string
all that together and instead of a smoothly flowing, captivating
story, it's like 10 musicians playing 10 different songs at the
same time.
I've never been a fan of hardcore jazz.
Shirl"
    @fiftystories: "<quote>
I know dialog is not the problem. I also know that many people praise
it still, and that it is good it's not stiff as Y&R's dialog once was.
Basically, the only good thing LML did.
Yes, the stories are abominable and I said it from day one, even when
Kay and John F. were her co-HWs, in name only or not. The moment she
took the power it all went downwards.
Current writers are a funny bunch - many of them are primetime writers
(or used to work in primetime), like Stanley and AHern & McLaughlin
(DH), and they're all probably used to having their own voices and
take little notice of what a higher up has to say to them in terms of
dialog or flow. Certainly, primetime shows have showrunners who take
care of that, but it is a different thing in daytime. Kay Alden said
an amazingly simple and truthful thing when she said some young
writers complain that they're denied their own 'voice' and she said of
course you're denied, you're not supposed to sound like yourself but
like the rest of the team.
And, Shirl, tell me something - how can you watch something you hate?
Have you heard from Cassata?"
    @rthrquiet: "<quote>
Not Shirl, but I'll chime in on this one. It's surprising what you'll
put up with when you have a long, long history with a show and its
characters. I had watched As the World Turns happily for many, many
years until it started its downhill slide after Douglas Marland passed
away, and at first the slide was pretty slow, so I was able to hang
on, but even after things started going downhill really fast I stuck
in there for a long while, even while I hated it, just because it was
habit, or on the strength of my past love of the characters.
Eventually, however, it does become too much, and one gives up. But
the timeline on that can depend on a lot of different things.
I'm not in the same situation in regard to Y&R, because although I've
watched since 1975, I was never a steady viewer. I'd drop in whenever
there was something that interested me, but I could abandon the people
of Genoa City with no particular regrets when something drove me away.
So it's been fairly easy dropping it from my viewing list again as
I've become more and more aware of how unsatisfying LML's version is,
and the few times I've gone back since I quit watching in, oh, I think
it was April, have not convinced me that I'm missing anything. (As any
number of people who post on here have noted, the characters are
becoming virtually indistinguishable from one anothersort of a
single shade of indiscriminately despicablea phenomenon that's not
especially surprising on a show that is now dominated by plot, plot,
plot (TM).) Shirl, on the other hand, has watched Y&R for years, and I
think she and a number of other long-time viewers who post here are in
exactly the same situation I was in circa 1996 with As the World
Turns: it's really hard to give up on something that's offered you so
much viewing satisfaction for so many years, even when it's just plain
awful, and you just keep watching, hoping things will get better. I
think there's an intermittent reinforcement phenomenon that goes on
too. (For those of you who have forgotten your Psyc 101, rats who are
rewarded once with a good morsel for pushing a lever will push the
lever frantically for a while, but if they get no follow-up
reinforcement, they'll give up pushing the lever in a reasonable time.
Rats who are occasionally rewarded, however"intermittent
reinforcement"will keep pushing that lever until they die of
exhaustion.) I think with a soap that has been great, like Y&R (or
ATWT in my case), all it takes during a dry period is that one
occasional episode or week that's wonderful (i.e., an intermittent
reinforcement), and you're hooked again and pushing that lever. But I
get the sense, from reading the Y&R posts on here, that the breaking
point is coming soon for Shirl and any number of others who are sort
of fed up and not getting much from the show anymore other than
frustration.
(I should also add another factor that wouldn't have existed 15-20
years ago but plays a big role now for some people: online
associations. By the time I was really ready to give up on ATWT, I was
posting online regularlyhere and on a few other boards. I had
cyberfriends associated with the show, and the ability to get online
and gripe about it [as well as cheer occasionally when the show rose
to the occasion], laugh about it, deride it mercilessly when it was
dreadful [and there have been some truly dreadful periods with ATWT],
and trade views about it was a significant motivator and kept me
watching a lot longer than I probably would have otherwise. I'm sure
that's a factor as well for the Y&R contingent that posts here.)
Now, to go back to your original question. I was going to say I've
never paid much attention to who is writing the dialogue, and I agree
with Kay Alden that in a team effort like a soap, you really
*shouldn't* be able to tell who is writing the dialogue on a
particular day. But then I realized that it's not entirely accurate
that I've never paid attention, because about five years ago ATWT had
a wonderful script writer who injected history into her scripts and
gave the characters witty and clever interactions that were true to
their characters and their histories. A number of people online
noticed and commented on it. Who was this wonderful script writer?
Marie Masters, who has been an actress on the show forever. So what
did TPTB do, in their infinite wisdom? They stopped using her as a
script writer. My understanding of the situation is that, although
TPTB (I'm not sure whether this was Sheffer, or MADD, or Lucy Johnson
at CBS) appreciated the high quality of her scripts, all of the stuff
she was doing that the long-time viewers, at least those who were
posting online, were lovingthe history and the character
interactionwas "not what they wanted." Oh. I see.
Idiots.
I'm really sorry now that I never wrote to Masters and told her how
much I had liked her scripts.
Michael"
    @recordhunter: "<quote>
You could still do it, Michael.
To write cast members:
As the World Turns
Attention: (actor's name here)
1268 East 14th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11230."
    @Xmnushal8y: "<quote>
The moment LML was put in power, the show was as different as night and 
day beginning with the death of John Abbott which was absolutely one of 
LML's first major decisions  a huge mistake, IMO. I *did* give it a 
chance even though it was clear VERY early on that while KA/JS and 
others were still in the credits, they no longer had any say. Like you, 
I posted my concerns right away too, and received some very hearty 
blastings by some for "being too negative" despite saying "we'll see" 
and "time will tell". 
Absolutely, and IMO that's vital in a continuing show with characters 
that we are supposed to "know". This team doesn't subscribe to that. 
They each write in whatever twists and nuances they want, with no 
apparent collaborative effort made to maintain some kind of continuity 
of character or story. Not to mention that there is ZERO genuine, 
sincerity coming from any of the characters anymore, and without that, 
it is impossible to invest emotionally. Sure, you can still appreciate 
great acting, but the lure of soap operas was not only the conflict, but 
also the romantic fantasy, and loving certain characters as we love 
friends who are in our real lives on a daily basis.
[snip]
That's part of it  watching soaps is not that far removed from any 
other addiction. For decades, some of us watched religiously for 
whatever enjoyment/satisfaction that hour of "soap" gave us, and many, 
many viewers have eloquently expressed their love for their soap and how 
certain events in their real lives coincided and were connected with 
events on the soap.
At the request of a friend on the inside, I kept an open mind about what 
I was initially seeing *on screen*; however, the blunders were too clear 
and evident to overlook, and the path being paved toward the possible 
long-term negative result was obvious. Having a little inside knowledge 
of the events and the players, I gave up "hoping things will get better" 
a long time ago, but I have to say I'm surprised this path of 
destruction has been allowed to continue THIS long. I would love to know 
what possible positive benefit TPTB see that they think outweighs all 
the negativity long-time viewers are expressing?
**IF** there is supposed to be some positive method to their madness, it 
is pretty damn stupid to allow so many long-time viewers to grow THIS 
dissatisfied and quit after over three DECADES of faithful viewership 
before turning that negativity around. If they have some huge positive 
outcome up their sleeve, WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY WAITING FOR? 
Truth is, I don't believe any such projected positive outcome/result 
exists. They have no formula. They have no long-term plan. They have no 
collaborative goal or concern/love for the show. They are flying by the 
seat of their pants, and while it is an asset to be able to do that on 
occasion, journeys that begin and end successfully depend on careful 
planning  plan the flight and fly the plan. It appears they are simply 
using Y&R as their collective cash cow, replacing long-tenured Y&R 
people with friends and relatives that have ZERO knowledge of or concern 
for the show itself, other than its hefty paychecks. With the 
understanding Bill Bell had of what kept soap viewers engaged, I doubt 
he'd be surprised to hear how many of feel about what LML has done to 
his show.
Lastly, as to why I'm watching something I've grown to hate, I'm not 
watching it as faithfully as I have for decades ... but there is still 
some attachment. If I could make an analogy, Y&R is like a loved-one 
with Alzheimers  the person you knew and loved is long gone and isn't 
there inside that body anymore. Our relationship with a soap opera is 
not that different from any other relationship  they gave us some (not 
all) great, satisfying characters and stories and in return, we 
faithfully watched and supported the show. After decades of that mutual 
relationship, you still feel like you can't or shouldn't completely 
abandon that Alzheimer patient even though they no longer bring what 
they once did to the relationship and you see them continuing to decline 
and deteriorate. 
Maybe that sounds over-dramatic, but that is, nonetheless, part of the 
phenomenon.
Shirl"
    @rthrquiet: "<quote>
It would be a rather awkward letter: "Hi, Marie, I just wanted you to
know that I liked your scripts back when you were writing them and
never wrote and told you, so now I'm writing, years later, to tell
you." Just the letter I'm sure she's waiting to get!
Seriously, though, you're right, and I imagine if I put my mind to it,
I could find a way to word the letter so that she'd be happy somebody
even remembered she wrote scripts a few years ago (after all, I could
also thank her for years and years of enjoyable performances, which
would also be true, and then segue into the scripts as a "by the way"
kind of thing). Thanks for putting the address right there in front of
me.
Michael"
    @random_thoughts5: "<quote>
You could describe what happened.  As in you were participating in an
online discussion of favorite dialogue writers and her name
immediately came to mind.  You realized how much you regretted never
writing to tell her so at the time etc.
It's a lovely compliment and a tribute to her talent that even though
she isn't writing dialogue now you thought of her when the topic of
excellent writers came up.
Erica C. (maybe she's back and responsible for the terrific Luke and
Noah dialogue?)"
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