@weaklingX: "hey guys.  i used to read this group a long time ago when i was
planning on getting a lathe.  i've finally got one and have been
practicing on some of the box elder that my property is afflicted
with.  so far just basic stuff between centers, but i'd like to get
into bowls and vessels.  when i was last here there seemed to be a lot
of debate on whether the dish soap soaking thing worked well, ok, or
wilsonjustin@example.net.  have more of you tried it?  is there a consensus now?
thanks"
    @Leif: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
In the immortal words of the nearly sainted Algore, the debate is over!! The 
concensus is in!!  LDD rocks!! 8^) *Ducking now to avoid the incoming 
rounds!*
Leif"
    @billnot: "<quote>
Don't duck 'em, chuck 'em! (And post pix of how they turned out!)
Bill
I'm not not at the above address.
<url>
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Virus Database (VPS): 000758-0, 07/19/2007
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<url>"
    @BeeFlow: "<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
It makes the sawdust taste funny. 
Posted via a free Usenet account from <url>"
    @tonymleatcomcastnet: "I know lots of people who tried it back when it was a big issue here.  Don't 
know one who still uses it.  Enough said.
Tony Manella
ndd1"at"prolog.net (remove "at")
<url>
Lehigh Valley Woodturners
<url>
<email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>"
    @reedgray: "I have experimented extensively with the LDD soaking (liquid
dishwashing detergent, the hand kind, not dishwasher kind) and DNA
soaking (denatured alcohol), and air drying. The style of bowls I do
is turn green wood to final thickness (1/2 inch thick or less), then
let it dry and warp, then sand and finish (about 10 days). There is no
difference in drying time, or success rates in any of the methods, and
I did a test where I used all 3 methods and weighed each bowl every
day until they reached equilibrium. The only difference I noted was
that the alcohol made the wood harder to sand, and the soap made the
wood much easier to sand. The key to drying bowls is to remember that
drying too fast and the wood cracks, and drying too slow and the wood
molds. Your local weather humidity determines what works best for you.
Very dry, and dry the wood inside one or more bags with or with out
dry shavings in them. Humid, and you can air dry starting out on the
floor, and raising to a wire rack in a week or so.
I haven't tried the soaking on thicker bowls where you leave them
thick and dry to return later. I don't think it will make much if any
difference, but as I said, I haven't tried it yet.
robo hippy
<quote>"
    @Leif: ""outofthewoods" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:3Taoi.1061$<email_address>
<quote>
=======> Gosh, fellows and girls!  Buy you books and buy you books and all 
you do is eat the pictures   sawdust, in this case.  Nowhere in the 
World-famous Treatise on LDD does it suggest or recommend that you eat the 
sawdust that is produced while turning LDD impregnated items.  However, 
since you mention it, I might add that to the next edition of  TWTLDD.  It 
would seem that a new benefit has appeared for this technique.  Not only 
does it soften and clean your hands,  and save your marriage/relationship, 
but ingesting it provides one with needed insoluble fiber and a concomitant 
cleansing of the bowels!  Outstanding suggestion, Beeflow!
Leif "
    @prometheus: "<quote>
Well... I don't think there's a consensus on *anything* related to
turning, and IMO, that's how it should be.
For my part, I have tried the LDD method, and it seemed to work ok,
though I will admit that I did not follow the instructions to the
letter, and used a different brand of detergent than was suggested.
The downside of that was that the stuff I used had some blue dye that
discolored the wood a bit, and wasn't that great to look at.
It did seem to reduce cracking, but I've more or less perfected my
personal rough-to-finish technique in the meantime, and haven't given
the LDD a second thought since.  What I remember from my experiments
was that it was awfully messy when I did it, and used a lot of
sandpaper (and I go through enough of that as it is!)
You'll just have to give it a try, and see how it works out for you.
Everyone does things a little differently, and it might be just the
thing you need- never know until you try!"
    @BeeFlow: "<quote>
Allow me to clarify.  Ingestion by Brief Inhalation(IBI).  ...sort of like 
the way the odor of burning [insert favorite nasty combustible] makes one 
rub the tongue on the roof of the mouth.
Of course, a couple handfuls of shavings CAN provide a light snack while 
changing-out the chuck, especially if one is a beaver.  I, however, am not a 
beaver, nor any other type of Canadian.  I daresay a beaver might well be 
mistaken for Rabid Wildlife if the ingestion of sufficient LDD-imbued 
sawdust should cause his mouth to overflow with scrubbing bubbles.
And haven't you heard that many high-fiber bread products contain sawdust? I 
have heard this.  I have not heard that the sawdust in commercially-sold 
bread contains LDD.  Heaven forbid any woodturning sawdust should ever find 
its way into the food chain.  Cleansing of the bowels, as mentioned above, 
should probably not be done with Joy. 
Posted via a free Usenet account from <url>"
    @chirperchippy: "<quote>
Well I persevered with it for a while, both on thin wall instant
finish green wood and on the traditional 10% of diameter and leave it
to dry a while method. I think it did help with cracking marginally
but there is a huge downside.
Different woods absorb the detergent at different rates and there is
no way to determine how far the stuff has soaked in. After 2 years I
still have bowls oozing LDD through oil and shellac finishes. I just
can't be bothered to go through all that fuss to have a perfectly good
bowl ooze gunk all over a nice antique table in a customers home.
If I can't turn the green stuff immediately I toss it in the rain
barrel until I can get to it. It's good for a couple of weeks and
causes no finishing problems.
Of course there is still the chance you might lose it through cracking
as it dries but then you know for sure it's a gonna! And it ain't
going to attack some old dear's table!
I am now aware that there is no substitute for natural drying, either
in a kiln or in a controlled open air environment. Like what's the big
rush? So it takes a while to produce but that is all the more reason
to charge a bit more and add to the story you tell the potential
customer. Something like "it took 200 years for the tree to get to
this size but it only takes a year for it to dry once I've worked my
magic on it"
Peter
Visit my site at:
<url>
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without"
    @Leif: ""Canchippy" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Peter!  I am simply astounded by your report of your turned objects oozing 
LDD.  I am no longer turning due to back problems, but in the time I used 
LDD I must have prepared at least a couple of hundred items of all types of 
wood in the form of large bowls, small salad bowls, platters and plates, 
pepper grinders, vases 12 inches deep, lidded boxes.  I worked with spalted 
wood, green (just went out and chainsawed the branch or tree down), semi 
dried wood.
I never had any LDD oozing from any of the items and the bowls never 
exceeded 3/16ths inch out of round.  Nor did they crack!  I talk about 
adsorption in TWTLDD wherein I claim from my experience that the LDD is 
absorbed only a few cells deep which is turned or sanded away in the turning 
process.
I have had a number of reports from other turners who have tried the LDD 
process and "oozing through finishes" was never a reported problem.  What 
stood out in almost all of the "failures" was that they failed to follow 
directions, either in the wrong dishsoap or in the recommended process of 
immersion, turning, sanding and finishing. Some of the pieces cracked or 
warped a bit, but from the description of "their" process, it was obvious 
they had not followed directions.
I have a number of old furniture pieces that my father made in the early 
19teens on which some of my turned pieces reside and nary an ooze mark is 
present over a period of 10 to 15 years.  I am SHOC KED, simply SHOCKED!! 
*G*
Leif
P.S.  Are you in league with George?? LOL "
    @Leif: ""George" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:2D_oi.36765$<email_address>
<quote>
=====>The 3/16's was the largest out-of-round; the majority were in the 
range about 1/16 to 1/8.  That was measuring the diameter at one point and 
then another diameter at a right angle to the first diameter.
===>Not sure what you are referring to here, George.  Are you referring to 
alcohol soaking or LDD? If LDD, it doesn't meet with my experience using the 
"fictional" process. Jammed the pores with centrifugal water?  That is quite 
a feat, I would think and cause cell collapse throughout the wall of the 
item.
=====>Perhaps you'll be able to purchase Glycerin through a chemical supply 
house at a cheaper bulk rate, but I note that Rockler has a 4 oz bottle for 
ca. $7.00; whereas, a half gallon of LDD runs about that same price. 
Insofar as the  descriptive terms used, I can only relate to one: the mess. 
If not drained briefly and then any excess wiped off then you might get 
quite a rooster tail off the spinning piece, striping the back wall and 
one's self with LDD.  One experience of this should insure that you'll 
follow directions more closely next time, or just damn the process and quit. 
I don't recall, George, but did you say you gave LDD a try?
Leif"
    @reedgray: "Well, as far as soaking times go, I usually will soak for 24 hours
minimum. Some times for up to a week. I have noticed that when I soak
for a couple of days, there are a lot of micro bubbles, it the perfect
shape of the bowl, on top of the soap solution, more of a foam than
bubbles. The soap works its way through the wood. When the blank is
dry, there is no scent left, and no taste. I do rinse the bowls off
before I let them dry. If soap dries on the bowl, it leaves a gummy
spot that clogs up the sanding discs. I do use power sanders, and they
clean up easily with the rubber cleaner sticks. I don't sand and
finish right after soaking, as it is a lot easier to sand when dry,
and the sand paper doesn't get so much build up on it that you have to
clean off. As far as movement, I had a madrone bowl that finished
drying and moving at 4 to 6 inches high, 13 inches long, and 9 inches
wide. Madrone moves more than any other wood I have used. Other woods
move less. If I were to sand and finish before the wood dries, I
imagine that there could be less movement, but I like the warped
bowls. As far as the mess goes, it is well worth it for how much
easier it makes the sanding. Cherry doesn't burn, big leaf maple
doesn't glaze over, and harder woods seem much softer. Yes, I do use
slower sanding speeds on my drill, to the point of putting pads under
the trigger to keep the speeds down to 600 rpm or less. This doesn't
effect the time involved in sanding, and in some instances even makes
it go faster. It works for me. The only down side is having to dump
the soap when it gets used. Since I use a lot of different woods, the
color of the soap eventually goes very dark, and this can darken the
woods that are soaking. Down the sink, or on an ant hill.
robo hippy
<quote>"
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