@SJP: "<quote>
pooping his pants except him.  Other times he'll come in the room with poop 
on his hand crying.  See, he checks himself and appears to be surprised when 
he finds something there.  Every time he does find something he bursts into 
tears because he knows we're going to take away TV privilages or something. 
We really don't know why he does it, and we're really tired with the whole 
issue.  The boy is six years old now.  When he does go, he generally has 
disturbingly large bowels - larger than that of your average adult (I guess 
I'm about average).  The doctor has us giving him laxatives every day 
because he holds it in otherwise.  I don't know what to say to him after 
each episode except that I'm extremely disappointed...  We don't know if 
he's really aware of it or not, but I can't imagine how he wouldn't be.  Has 
anyone any experience with something similar?  The kid is also skin and 
bones and I"m afraid that the daily laxative is keeping him from getting the 
nutrition that he needs to grow.
Thanks, Steve "
    @eek: "<quote>
	You may need some better medical advice than you've
been gettingperhaps to deal with the emotional as well as
physical issues.  If he's had a history of constipation and
obstruction, his bowel may be messed up enough that he no
longer has good control and he may not be receiving appropriate
signals from his body when he needs to go.  Leaking is not
uncommon.  Between the physical pain of previous constipation and
the emotional pain from fearing the physical pain and the
punishments, the poor little guy may be having a really
rough time.  It may take quite some time for him to get
back to normal physically and emotionallynot to mention
some more appropriate help.  I don't know if the laxatives
are the right answer or not, but I would probably be seeking
a second opinion from a specialist.  You're already in a
deep enough hole.  There's no room for mistakes in treatment,
as every wrong turn will set him back even further physically
and emotionally.  I would give up the idea that this is just
about him being stubborn and unwilling to cooperate.  Odds
are that this is not well under his control at this time,
and the shame and pain of the situation is likely compounding
the issue.
	How involved are his doctors with this?  Are they
aware of the extent and duration of this problem?  How long
has it been going on?  If it has been going on quite some
time, and their recommendations are not working (as they
obviously have not yet), then unless they have some additional
ideas, it's probably time to seek a second opinion.
Best wishes,
Ericka"
    @nlb63: "On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:45:02 -0500, "SJP" <email_address> scribbled:
<quote>
Then clearly he's not getting the right body signals.  Ericka
responded with some great advice, as well.
As a former child that withheld and had my share of 'accidents', the
negative effects overall can be very damaging.  Please try to get in
the mindset that he probably doesn't 'know' he has to go.
Nan"
    @nlb63: "On 6 Jan 2005 16:21:54 GMT, Brian <email_address> scribbled:
<quote>
I'm not really sure, but I think some feel that the child is doing the
desired behavior only for the reward, and it doesn't really teach
them.  I've always used rewards for a short-term incentive and never
had problems with either of my oldest failing to follow through when I
stopped.
Nan"
    @penny: "<quote>
[snip]
You can let him read a book - or read it to him - while he sits there.
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three"
    @tainuiti: ""SJP" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
I think you're at the stage where you need expert medical help because it 
sounds like the original problems has been made worse by the treatment the 
doctor has prescribed. Imagine how little bowel control you'd have if you 
were on permanent laxatives - it'd be like having permanent delhi belly! Are 
you sure he couldn't be having the laxatives less often, perhaps after he 
hasn't had a bowel movement for two or three days? It may be that a smaller 
or less frequent dose may give your son more control over his muscles.
In Australia there is a natural fruit based laxative called Nulax which is 
gentler on the system than some other OTC kinds (as long as you take it in 
small quantities!)You probably have a similar fibre-based remedy available 
to you.
If the compaction is happening in the rectum then glycerine suppositories 
might be worth trying. They allow painful 'tennis-ball' motions out more 
comfortably and can help a child feel as if he another choice besides 
hurting himself or withholding and making the pain worse, later. They may be 
better to use every two or three days than something that affects his whole 
digestive process but he still needs to be able to end up with the 'right' 
kind of motion in his rectum so it isn't too soft or too hard to for his 
muscles to either contain or  push out easily. That will probably require 
some experimentation with his diet.
Poor little lad! Please try not to punish him with your disappointment, he's 
not being lazy or careless. It's defintely time for a second medical opinion 
from another paediatrician. imo.
Tai"
    @ehrebeniuk: "wrote:
<quote>
And is he still backed up?  How have they followed up?  Have they given you 
any guidance on how to deal with this problem? 
What's hard to understand?  He says he doesn't know and appears surprised when 
it happens.  What other evidence do you need?
The only alternative that springs to mind is if he has "magic" thinking  
when the child thinks that if they say something is not so, that it will not 
be.  I don't know if 6yos are still doing that.
Another question about the crying  is he crying *while* passing the motion, 
ie, he's in pain, or is he crying afterwards because he feels ashamed?
Chookie  Sydney, Australia 
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)
"Life is like a cigarette  smoke it to the butt."  Harvie Krumpet"
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