@thedeerhunter270: "Just got back from Groom Lake road...
While I was there sitting in my car eating a cheese sandwich, I had
this thought.
What I should have done was purchase a handheld frequency counter.
Like this one - <url>
And with a yagi, point it at the base...
But I didn't.
Not entirely sure what would have happened or what I'd have locked
onto - it was just a thought."
    @miso: "<quote>
Counters aren't really that effective. What works better is the
"Signal Stalker" as found on GRE (Radio Shack) radios. Uniden has a
similar technology called "close call", though I haven't used it and
can't say which is better. I use signal stalker all the time to get
new frequencies on the range.
The problem with a counter is there is no front end filtering. That
is, it can't handle multiple signals at the same time. Now if you are
really close to the source, that signal will dominate and you can get
a hit. However, if you are just in the vicinity, there are all sorts
of signals coming from the range. The EDACS repeater system data
channel is always active. The FAA radar on Bald Mountain is outputting
1060Mhz signals to ping the aircraft transponders, etc.
Signal Stalker sweep the VFO, but sniffs the signal one stage earlier
than the final mixer. This means it is using a wider bandwidth than
the final IF filter. If a signal is sniffers, the scanner then
searches that smaller chuck of spectrum to find the signal.
Signal stalker (GRE) can be limited to specific bands to increase the
chance of finding a frequency.
A yagi might be of some use, but that implies you know roughly what
frequency you are seeking. Occasionally I bring a mil air log periodic
to the range. This is broader than a yagi."
    @miso: "<quote>
Counters have a "hard limiter" on the front end, so much like FM, they
lock ot the strongest signal.  I suppose you could buy RF filters from
Minicircuits to improve the odds of getting a useful hit. Clearly the
data channel of the trunk system has to go. [I have a duplexer I built
out of filters from minicircuits. This allows me to use different
antennas and LNAs for each band (VHF & UHF air)]
The vhf/uhf aviation traffic around the base is not encrypted, though
of course they could use "have quick" if need be. There is no
unencrypted FM as far as I know. They have an UHF DES encrpyted Edacs
trunk (standard, not ESK).  Incidentally, the EDACS is not provoice,
though you might read that on the net. [Hey, sometimes what you read
on the net isn't true!]
The Nellis range has NFM voice traffic, such as "scorpian base." You
can watch Bob Grove in one of those stupid Area 51 documentaries
claiming to be hearing base security in the clear, but really they
were listening to range traffic, not Groom.
The log periodic I use is a military surplus field antenna. The
elements can be retracted. It comes with a plastic carrying case.  I
think the number is AS-1430, but I'm not getting any useful hits. I
got one from Murphy Surplus, and a second one at the local electronics
flea market.
They did use HF during one Red Flag. I don't think Groom has use for
HF nowadays since they probably only fly over the range, not the MOAs.
In the early days, HF was used. I recall reading about a crash where
HF comms were mentioned.
UHF AM comms can go pretty far. While the base has it's share of
comms, the area in general doesn't have the typical urban RF smog. I
have monitored China Lake and Edwards traffic from Tikaboo, so I
assume the base RF gear on Bald Mountain can surpass that.  I woulnd't
put it past the Groom base to have relay sites on desert hilltops,
much like Bigfoot. I know the DOE has radio facilities that are not
used for daily communications, such as the facility on Mount Potosi."
    @thedeerhunter270: "Thanks for the info - lots of that I wasn't aware of.  Particularly
that no FM is in the clear, although it isn't surprising, and
something I'd have expected, but you're the first person to confirm
it.  I had to look up Have Quick, I'd heard about it, but I couldn't
remember it worked.  Still unencrypted, but frequency hopping.  As far
as I'm aware the reason AM is still used for aircraft is that it can
still be heard at low signal levels, unlike FM which you lose in the
mush.
I used to have a Log Periodic, I used to use it on a rotator at home
(it got lost in a move).  Can't remember the frequency range it had,
VHF/ UHF I think, but it was quite big, certainly too big to use
mobile, or too big for me to use mobile.  This one looks useful
<url>
Different design to the one I had - and so much smaller
I'd love to get hold of some ex-military gear, I think the specs are
so much higher than the civilian equivalent.
You use (I think if I have the right person) the AT-197/GR discone?
Reminds me of the discone's I used to have, I couldn't, at the time,
get one for the range I wanted, so I cut the elements so the antenna
work resonate to a higher range.  It seemed to work ok.
Good point about the trunking data channels, they are a pain in the
arse."
    @miso: "<quote>
I have the AT-197/GR. Actually two, though one needs some work. It is
no-gain of course, but wideband .The advantage is the antenna is
designed to be field assembled, so it breaks down easily for
transport. I sometime bring one for red flag, then use a J-[ole cut
for groom tower for VHF air. VHF isn't all that wide, so the j-pole
works well.
Figure on about $100 for any of these military surplus antennas. I did
get one of my as-1430 (need to verify that number) for $20, but it was
without the transport case. The military discone uses a HN connector.
The HN to N adapter is pricey unless you find it surplus. A better bet
is to look for old cables with the HN connector, then change one end
to a conventional N.
I never used the TACO antenna since it is way too new to show up
surplus. I would expect it to be good, but I believe it is not
designed to be used in the field."
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