@newton5: "  Wow, that thread really brought opinions and views out of the woodwork. Our 
automobiles are things that evoke brand loyalty\disdain, discussions, heated debates, 
all the way down to fistfights more than any other consumer product on the market. The 
subject seems to be right up there with politics, religion, and sports. It's really 
amazing to me.
  As some of you have surmised, I was an Automotive Technician for 23 years. In 2001 I 
left the business in absolute disgust and didn't look back. It was about 18 months 
before  I started working on even my own vehicle again. Over time, the bad memories 
faded and the good was inflated by my memory (theres a term for that, I don't remember).
  This thread prompted me to go back and revisit one of the websites related to my 
former profession. It all came back with mind numbing clarity. <url> 
was started in 2000 as a common gathering place for (Mainly Ford) Dealership 
Technicians who were trying to fight what was essentially a 30%pay cut.  I see the 
site has grown substantially since my last visit in 2001.
  If anyone is interested in the how and why of the decline of the US Auto Industry, 
browse this site, especially the forums and articles. It is a view of the industry 
from a Technician\Customer Service perspective. It's interesting to note that the 
folks who are fighting the hardest for the customer are the ones most often held in 
low regard by the customer.
			Regards, Tom Adkins
PS For bit of an eye opener, see the article on SUV Body Removal. This procedure must 
be performed to do major engine work on many trucks and SUVs."
    @newton5: "<quote>
Yes Peter. The Service dept. is completely separate from Sales in the structure of the 
dealership. This is prety much standard throughout the industry. The Dealership is 
also independent of the manufacturer. They are franchises, also industry standard. 
Many folks don't realize this. When you buy a new vehicle, you buy that vehicle from 
the Dealer, not the manufacturer. Some years ago Ford and GM tried company owned 
dealerships and failed miserably.
  There are some dealerships out there who will not send their Techs. for proper 
training. They fear lost productivity. They pay the Tech for the time in training and 
  and for that period that man makes them no money. They don't realise that they will 
recoup that money in better, more profitable repairs and higher Customer Satisfaction 
Lack of training is not a really big issue. Most Dealership Owners understand the 
benefits. There are a few though who don't.
  The complaints about Corporate seem to stem from the fact that Ford, and others, 
have closed many training facilities in an effort to cut costs. The instructors at the 
remaining facilities have been given other unrelated responsibilities such as proof 
reading repair manuals and and solving issues that the people who designed and built 
them can't figure out. This has cut down on the availability of training and raised 
the cost of sending an employee for training. This has come about since I left the 
business so I could be incorrect in my understanding of the situation.
				Tom"
    @newton5: "<quote>
You're darn close Richard. Close enough that no one could argue.
  Work related injuries that require medical attention (deep cuts, broken fingers, 
etc) are covered under Workers Compensation. Long term injuries (arthritis, spine and 
joint degeneration, carpal tunnel, etc) are covered by health insurance if you can 
afford it. Many cannot.
  There's a few "bad" dealers out there but for the most part they want to provide 
quality vehicles and service to their customers. This is what keeps you coming back. 
Many customer (dis)satisfaction issues stem from having to operate within parameters 
set down by the manufacturer. I saw this in warranty issues. I'm not really familiar 
with the sales end of things except for the fact that the average profit on a vehicle 
sold is about $1K. This is divided between the sales person and the dealer. This is, 
of course, an average depending on the vehicle.
  The price that the manufacturer is willing to pay for warranty repairs is dictated 
by the manufacturer, the one doing the paying. These prices have been cut, by the 
manufacturers by about %40 since 1995. The cuts weren't in the hourly rate but in the 
flat rate time alloted for the repairs. They also dictate what proceedures they will 
pay for. This has left it nearly impossible to properly complete a repair in the 
alloted time.
  When I left the business I did not get paid for; any time test driving a vehicle, 
any time over .5hr for diagnosis, any time spent inspecting failed assemblies 
(alternator, transmission, etc)as required for warranty replacment. This coupled with 
the lowered time allotments left 2 options. 1) Do hurried shoddy diagnosis and repair, 
or 2) Take the time needed and lose money directly out of my paycheck. For quite a 
while I could reach a compromise. Once my income dropped consistently by 30% from 
1995, I retrained and left. This is becoming alarmingly common. Dealership Technicians 
are leaving at a high rate, I heard 20,000 techs between 1995 and 2001. Their 
knowledge and experience goes out the door with them, along with customer satisfaction.
  You mentioned parts prices. The manufacturer also dictates how much the Parts 
Department pays for parts as they may only be purchased from the manufacturer. A good 
example is the new AC compressor I recently purchased for my car. I pais $335 from a 
perts store, for the exact same compressor from the very same supplier the price from 
the dealer was $420, the dealer buys the part from Ford for $370. Arrangements between 
the auto makers and suppliers assure that many parts will not be available through the 
aftermarket.
			Regards, Tom"
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