@swldxer1: "I would like to buy and mount a stand alone mini camera on my road
bike bars, so helmet cams are no good as I don't possess one. The main
reason is to film evidence of bad driving that results in me getting
injured, such as drivers failing to give way at pinch point chicanes
which is very common. Another common occurence is drivers heading
towards me to avoid giving way due to a parked bus in their lane.
I feel that sooner or later I will get hit head on and so if the
driver does a runner, at least I will have their reg number and
evidence that they failed to give way. HD quality etc is not required
as it is only the reg plate and video evidence I am interested in.
TIA.
Simon Mason"
    @ijackson: "<quote>
I used to run two ATC2000s.  See
  <url>
for examples of the output, and scroll down for info and some pictures
about how I mounted them.
They were quite good.  
The two main limitations of my setup were:
* Very poor audio, which was no good at all for capturing things
  people said even very close to the camera;
* Narrow field of view, which means in particular that someone can
  pull out in front of you and hardly be caught on the camera.
The "wobblevision" effect you see is irritating but not really a
deficiency for these kind of purposes.
Ian Jackson                  personal email: <email_address>
These opinions are my own.        <url>
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb,     fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657"
    @realnotantispamaddress: "<quote>
I feel pretty sure that being armed with such a device will take you
into situations that justify its existence. 
If you're tooled-up for confrontation you'll find it, and if you spend
money and trouble on an evidence-gathering tool you'll find eveidence.
Daniele"
    @swldxer1: "On 16 Apr, 18:28, <email_address> (D.M.
<quote>
I was hit by a car last September, ended up on sick for 4 weeks and
don't wish to have the episode repeated. I was lucky that the driver
stopped and I was able to claim compensation for the injury and
material losses. Since then, I have heard a few stories from people I
have met that have been knocked off and injured, but the drivers had
subsequently driven off without leaving details. That is the sole
reason I want a camera, so that I won't be left out of pocket through
no fault of my own. I do not wish to put up youtube videos like our
recumbent friend, or seek out confrontations - that's the last thing I
want.
Simon Mason"
    @ja: "<quote>
If the camera is mounted on your handlebars, the amount of vibration 
will likely mean you won't get a reg number anyway.  I'd concentrate on 
adjusting your riding style (and maybe your route too) to avoid 
conflicts entirely instead.  My normal route to work takes maybe 5 
minutes longer than the direct route, but it's worth it to avoid the 
worst traffic.
<url> - enjoy the ride"
    @swldxer1: "Cheers chaps,
 The Oregon would certainly fit the bill, although with the quoted
short battery life, it would have to be run on NiMHs, rather than the
Lithium cells I use in my rear light or it would cost a fortune. Not
bothered about audio, as it would only consist of a stream of
expletives ;-)
ATC5K model shown here.  <url>
Simon Mason"
    @nmm1: "<quote>
Why do you assume that's feasible?
I gave up commuting by bicycle precisely because there WAS no viable
alternative route, I was being deliberately targeted, and I cannot
ride in the gutter because of my balance.  So there was no other
way to avoid conflicts than to take to the car :-(
Regards,
Nick Maclaren."
    @swldxer1: "<quote>
There is no 100% risk free route. I avoid our main docks road except
for 2200-0600 periods because of the HGVs and make my way through
nearby council estates which have all been made into 20 mph zones. A
lot of those have pinch points where drivers fail to yield right of
way. Even the traffic free off-road cycle tracks involve pinch points
to get to them, so unless I cycle along the Humber foreshore which is
possible but very slow, I can't avoid the risk.
Simon Mason"
    @cam: "<quote>
You could mount a helmet camera on a headband or a hat. Doesn't have
to be a helmet. Head mounting has the advantage of being much more
cushioned from road vibration and pointing at what you're looking
at. You might look at the vehicle which hits you broadside, but your
handlebars are most unlilely to point to it. The reduced vibration
will improve effective resolution of detail a lot.
Chris Malcolm"
    @phil: "Simon Mason <email_address> considered Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:26:31
+0100 the perfect time to write:
<quote>
Kodak Zx1 is available from Amazon at a grand total of £67 including a
16GB Class 4 SDHC card and USB2 reader for it, VAT, and delivery.
You WILL need at least a class 4 card for the maximum resolution.
<url> is the
cam, 
<url>
is the 16GB Class 4 SDCH card and 
<url>
is the USB2 reader,
I just got this combination and it's bloody good, especially for that
money.
My first sample video is at <url>
although youtube compresses the hell out of it.
If you have a big mailbox, I could send the uncompressed footage for
you to see the quality, but that clip is 120MB.
I'll have a fiddle with the editing software and see if I can clip a
smaller bit if you like - just let me know.  Still getting to grips
with it, so would be after the (busy) weekend when the kids are kthomas@example.org.
I could also send a pic of how I mounted it."
    @owen: ""Simon Mason" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Look, jist be aware of potentials hazards, and avoid them
Cycling is one those things where YOU are in charge. 'Expect' people not to 
give way at pinch points - take the primary position as you enter them; but 
expect to move over and stop if the idiot in the car doesn't stop. Yes, you 
may have to stop, but you are still able to get home.
Having a camera may help 'post mortem' but neither you nor I want that that. 
and 9x out of 10 it'll be pointing in the wrong direction"
    @phil: "Jim A <email_address> considered Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:16:43
+0100 the perfect time to write:
<quote>
Mine can, but then it's 720p kthomas@example.org.
Mounted properly, vibration isn't the problem, definition and/or speed
blur are - that's why HD and 60fps makes a difference.
Just compare the vids on youtube (although they cut the framerate and
compress it for that, so you won't get the full benefit by viewing it
there.
If you have alternative routes and are happy to use them instead,
that's fine, but why should we accept being forced off roads by
aggressive driving?
I'm more concerned with making sure there's evidence if some twat
takes me out."
    @realnotantispamaddress: "<quote>
I fear that Simon's wish to capture evidence of things going badly wrong
is going to be part of a self-fulfilling prophecy, when he should be
thinking about what's required to prevent them going wrong.
Daniele"
    @NEWS: "<quote>
I take a longer nice route that is quite slow 5 miles in about 20/30
mins.
there are more direct routes but this route while 2 miles longer goes
though a royal park, and quiet roads and is a nice settle before and
after the storm!
roger
<url>"
    @simon: ""D.M. Procida" <email_address> wrote in 
message >
<quote>
Having done 60000 miles in the last 10 years in dense city riding, I reckon 
I have a good idea of how to avoid confrontations, but as I said, I have 
heard so many stories of drivers doing a runner after an accident, I need 
evidence. BTW, I have received a solicitor's letter today stating that I 
will get 4500 quid compo from my accident last year. If the driver had 
cleared off, that would not be the case.
Simon Mason
<url> "
    @ja: "<quote>
I'm not forced off the faster road.  I make a decision based on the 
comparative risks/benefits to use an alternative route.
If you prefer being 'taken out' by a twat to not that's your choice.
<url> - enjoy the ride"
    @delcopeland: "<quote>
This is a rather good  downhill cycling video. I think the camera is
strapped to the side of the rider's crash helmet.
<url>
Derek C"
    @stillyetnntp: "<quote>
There are a lot of places where the alternative routes away from main 
traffic are very much longer, hillier and/or slower. For example, my 
commute between Strathaven and East Kilbride - The main road is 
reasonably direct, but carries fast traffic and at going-to-work time is 
fairly busy. There are a couple of wee twisty back roads but they both 
more than double journey time. On a nice day I often choose to use them 
in the evening, but in the morning it's always going to be the main road.
	;; Semper in faecibus sumus, sole profundam variat"
    @ijackson: "<quote>
I think this is in serious danger of being read as victim-blaming.
There are all sorts of reasons why a cyclist might choose not to use
an off-road "facility" (see the pavement cycling thread for one
example).  To say that the cyclist is then "choosing" or "preferring"
to be "taken out" is IMO beyond the pale.
Ian Jackson                  personal email: <email_address>
These opinions are my own.        <url>
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb,     fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657"
    @stillyetnntp: "<quote>
But if it's tolerable that drivers through dangerous behaviour can force 
you off the most direct roads, then they can force you off the indirect 
roads too. Dangerous and anti-social behaviour by drivers does need to be 
challenged - although of course it would be best if it were challenged by 
the police and the courts.
Sadly...
	;; Semper in faecibus sumus, sole profundam variat"
    @stillyetnntp: "<quote>
I think that is tendentious to the verge of being dishonest. There are 
lots of victims of drivers bullying cyclists off the roads. Some are 
dead, many are injured, all are terrorised. And yes, you were blaming 
them.
	;; Semper in faecibus sumus, sole profundam variat"
    @ja: "<quote>
I assure you it is my honest opinion.
I'm not talking about them.  I'm talking about those of us who are 
making choices every day about which route we will take and how we will 
  ride.  Those choices we make affect the likelihood of injury or death 
and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise.
How ridiculous.  I don't even know any of them.  I've only personally 
known two people who have suffered serious injury while cycling.  Both 
as it happens were clearly kthomas@example.org.  The first was riding 
down hill at speed, looked behind to see where his mate was and when he 
looked forward found he hadn't considered the truck parked in his path. 
  The second was someone doing tricks (trials I think they call it) who 
timed one of his jumps wrong and ripped his own knee open.
<url> - enjoy the ride"
    @JeremyParker: ""Simon Brooke" <email_address> wrote
[snip]
<quote>
[snip]
Moral:  choose the road with more witnesses, i.e. the busier roads
Potential witnesses will deter most of the homicidal
Riding in the rush hour helps, I think.  Many of the drivers will be 
regulars.  Bikes being rarer than cars, you will tend to be something 
of a landmark, making drivers somewhat more well disposed to you - 
assuming, of course, that you are not constantly doing something to 
piss them off; that's not how you want to achieve recognition
Jeremy Parker "
    @eleanor: "<quote>
This is not the case in Cambridge.  Cyclists are still outnumbered by
cars, but are not even slightly of any rarity value.
<email_address>                          <url>"
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