@mrcycleuk: "Hi all,
      I orders some computer printer replacement ink cartridges from a firm 
I have bought from for some 15 years.
I ordered the goods on  the 17 May 2009 a Sunday evening, the Credit card 
was debited on the 18th May but no cartridges arrived.
I am only a 5 min drive from the store but they went to internet only orders 
around a year ago.
When the goods hadn't arrived by the 22nd May 2009, I sent them an email but 
they did not reply.
<quote>
answered.
I sent another email on the 27th May, asking them to confirm they were 
sending the goods, or if not to please cancel the order and return my�25.53.
I realise this is not a lot of money to most, but as a pensioner on basic 
money it is to me.
I phoned the credit card company on the 28th May, and they said they will 
try to get a refund.
I have since been told that credit card transitions below �100  are not 
usually refunded by the credit card firm.
Can anyone explain if I have any hope of getting my money back?
Thanks,
       Mick. "
    @ste_rose0: "<quote>
m a firm
rd
ers
but
5.53.
ot
It's impossible to say. Do you have any reason to think the company
has gone into administration? Also you seem to have jumped the gun a
bit - ringing the card issuer for a refund only 9 working days after
the order was placed! If it's a small family-run company, perhaps
the've gone on a 2 week holiday!"
    @mrcycleuk: ""Ste" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
It's impossible to say. Do you have any reason to think the company
has gone into administration? Also you seem to have jumped the gun a
bit - ringing the card issuer for a refund only 9 working days after
the order was placed! If it's a small family-run company, perhaps
the've gone on a 2 week holiday!
Hi, Ste,
      Thanks for replying.
When I started using this company around the 15 years ago, local orders were 
delivered by them within 2 days.
Then they moved to a much bigger site and also allowed call in customers, 
until as I said they went to internet ordering and posted deliveries.
I have never known them close for a holiday, and do you not think they would 
have put a notice on their website.
I would like nothing more than for my goods to turn up.
My main question is what can I do if they do not?
Mick."
    @ste_rose0: "<quote>
ere
uld
Your options if the goods do not arrive will depend on the *reason*
why they have not arrived. At this stage, if the company is just
around the corner then the best thing to do is to just go and pay a
visit, and speak to someone who can address your complaint. On the
other hand if the premises are closed and the company uncontactable,
then you need to find out why."
    @sparky5146f8790: "Mick Cant;648954 Wrote: 
<quote>
Mike. Internet orders are purchases under Distance Selling Regulations.
If paid for goods have failed to arrive after 28 days you have a right
to a refund.
The Co should return your payment (reimburse credit card) within a
further 28 days (I think my timings are correct) Since you have
notified them of non-delivery and they have not given any reason for
the delay (lost in post etc) you appear to have a good case. You will
need to submit a formal claim 29 days after your payment was taken (18
May).  Not sure of CC position (usually �100 min) but worth sending
them a copy of your formal claim and putting the transaction 'in
dispute'  ie amount frozen, not part of your monthly balance due and no
interest payable until they have investigated or matter is resolved
For a small amount on goods not delivered it may be regarded as a
failed transaction.  Read up on Dist Selling Regs
sparky51"
    @invalid: "<quote>
If they have closed for their holidays they could have done something much 
simpler by leaving a message on their Tel. No. stating they were closed 
until <whatever date> & that all unfilled orders would be desoatched on the 
following day. That they haven't provided such a message demonstrates that 
their idea of customer service is, at best, shoddy!
As they are nearby & as others have suggested, I would drive round there & 
see whether there is any sign of activity (& if so ask for the goods you 
have paid for) or whether the place is deserted or boarded up.
Joe Lee"
    @Invisible: "<quote>
t
not
As I understand it section 75 refers to payments for or towards items=20
costing GBP100 to GBP30,000. There is however a chargeback system some=20
card issuers use that is not legally enforceable but may well get you=20
your money back.
As previously suggested suggest you visit the vendor first.
I am currently trying to get GBP2,000 back in respect of a TV a vendor=20
could not supply. Trying to get Capital One to take their=20
responsibilities seriously is proving extremely slow."
    @insertmysurnamehere: ""Mick Cant" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
Depending upon how they work, that may have been an automatic process. If 
they use a third party card handler, such as Sage Pay and don't use deferred 
payment, an order placed on a Sunday evening would be processed on the 
Monday with no involvement by the retailer. I use deferred payemnt, in which 
the customer only authorises the card issuer to release the unds upon 
request and I have to specifically request payment, which I do when the 
goods are ready for dispatch. Deferred payment is a selling point, so the 
retailer should mention it on their web site, if they operate that way. If 
they don't, the money being is no indication that the retailer did anything.
In view of the fact they are not answering emails or the phone, it would 
still be a good idea to visit the place, to see whether it still looks 
occupied. Ink cartridge retail is a highly competitive business and business 
failures are not uncommon.
You have done exactly the right thing to get your money back under the 
Distance Selling Regulations, although the company has 30 days in which to 
repay it.
IME, the card issuers will operate chargebacks for almost any amount. 
However, it will take some time. They will start by writing to the retailer, 
asking if there is any good reason not to issue a chargeback. If they get a 
reply from the company, they will take it into consideration when deciding 
whether to issue a chargeback. If they get no reply within a certain period 
(its a long time since I had to deal with a chargeback so I forget how long 
they give for a reply) then they will issue a chargeback and refund your 
money. However, if the company is insolvent, then the �100 minimum of the 
card guarantee scheme probably will apply and you will simply become an 
unsecured creditor. Getting money as an unsecured creditor takes a long 
time, often years, and the sum you get back may be trivial - I have a 15p 
cheque on the wall of my office that is my payout from a �200+ debt from an 
insolvent customer.
Colin Bignell "
    @ste_rose0: "On 6 June, 12:20, "\"nightjar\"
<quote>
om a firm
card
red
ich
f
ng.
ess
l
ic
o
ll
 not
er,
 a
g
od
ng
he
m an
=A30.00075p in the pound? Lol, he must have been very insolvent."
    @pedt: "In message 
<email_address>, at 
16:15:07 on Sat, 6 Jun 2009, Ste <email_address>
<quote>
I've a 10p one (on �300) that I similarly framed - it would have cost 
more to bank than it was worth. Framed it personally instead and gave 
the Company 10p :-)
What I have occasionally wondered is did the cost of cheque issuance 
come out of the residual money from the insolvency before the cheques 
were issued - plus cost of stamp, single sheet accompanying letter and 
envelope cost - or is distribution usually included in the insolvency 
fees. Anyone know either way? Idle curiosity really.
Pedt"
    @mrcycleuk: "<quote>
Hi all,
I will go there on Monday and see if anyone there, they used to send  sack 
fulls of parcels out every day so there should be more than me involved in 
this.
I am so tempted to say the name of the firm, but perhaps better not at the 
moment.
I realise my amount of money is small but it still makes me bitter!
Mick. "
    @NOTsomeone: "<quote>
You are perfectly entitled to mention their name. There is no problem at all 
with doing so as long as what you have said is factually correct. "
    @insertmysurnamehere: ""Ste" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
On 6 June, 12:20, "\"nightjar\"
<quote>
It is surprising how often the insolvency agents' fees closely match what is 
left over after staff wages and HMR&C have been paid.
Colin Bignell "
    @fredxx: """nightjar" <cpb@ .me.uk" <email_address> wrote in 
message news:<email_address>
<quote>
You've noticed that as well?"
    @oldcodger: "<quote>
Is the excuse perhaps swings and roundabouts?
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field
What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make 
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]"
    @invalid: "In news:<email_address>,
"nightjar" <cpb@ .me.uk opined:
<quote>
You're missing out the bank. Usually the bank recovers most but not all of 
its money as a secured creditor, leaving nothing for unsecureds.
HMRC are no longer a preferential creditor.
It's not surprising that the insolvency practitioner gets paid, as the 
expenses of the insolvency rank ahead of most things.
Chris R "
    @mrcycleuk: ""Mick Cant" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi again,
        I went to the depot today (Monday 8th) and it looks the same but I 
could not get an answer to my knocking, and I tried phoning them several 
times, and no answer.
So I suppose I can only leave yroberson@example.net.
I ordered more replacement ink tanks from a Channel Island firm on Friday 
5th June, and they were delivered today.
Thanks,
     Mick. "
    @insertmysurnamehere: ""Mick Cant" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
That does not look good. Would you like to name the company, so that others 
don't order from them and possibly get their money taken by an automatic 
payment system? From my point of view, I'd like to know whether it is one of 
my customers :-)
If you are looking for a new online supplier, here are a few things to look 
out for.
1) Do they say they will not take your money until the goods are ready for 
dispatch? This is good business practice and is easy to set up. However, the 
default system with many card handling companies is to take the money at the 
time of order, which I suspect happened here.
2) If the company is not a high street name, or of similar size, does it 
take your money through a third party card handler? This is much more 
secure, as the retailer only gets to know the card type and the last four 
numbers of your card. Large companies can afford the security systems needed 
to handle card details themselves, but smaller retailers need to contract 
the handling out to be secure.
3) Is the site PCI compliant? There should be a dynamic logo on the site 
that takes you to a PCI compliance certificate. It may say something like 
'identify theft secure' instead. This is a requirement of the card handling 
industry and involves an external audit of the site's security. Any site 
that is not PCI compliant is in breach of their agreement with the card 
issuers.
4) When you pay, do you get the option of Verified by Visa or MasterCard 
SecureCode, if using Visa, MasterCard, Maestro or Solo cards? This is the 
online equivalent of chip and PIN, although you do need to use it at least 
once to create a password before it is properly secure.. Maestro insists 
upon any retailer handling their cards online use it, although it is 
optional for Visa./ MasterCard.
5) Do they have an extended verification SSL certificate? Fairly new, this 
gives a green background to the address bar on secure pages (not necessarily 
all pages on the site), if you are using Internet Explorer or Firefox. other 
browsers are expected to follow. The site should also have a dynamic logo 
that takes you to the certificate, or you can inspect it by clicking on the 
padlock symbol in your browser. The logo will have the name of the web site 
operator on it . This certificate is only available to certain types of 
business and shows that the certificate issuer has taken steps to verify 
that the company running the web site is genuine and who it says it is. It 
is primarily a protection against phishing, but any company that is willing 
to pay out the significant extra cost of an EV SSL is taking its business 
seriously.
6) Is it a member of a trade association, such as Safe Buy, which requires 
its members to comply to an Office of Fair Trading approved code of 
practice? Clicking on the association logo should take you to a certificate 
that confirms their membership and usually tells you how long they have been 
members.
Colin Bignell "
    @ste_rose0: "<quote>
=A0sack
 in
the
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ame but I
It's highly likely then that the business has gone bust. If it's only
a small amount of money (less than =A320 or thereabouts), then I'd be
tempted to just put it down to bad luck - although as a final measure
you could try contacting your card issuer and explaining the situation
(i.e. that the business appears to be closed down/insolvent, but are
still taking payments)."
    @mrcycleuk: "Hi Colin,
 Yes I can see the need to let other people know so they do not also order 
from them.
My yahoo address here is a working one, could I contact you direct and ask 
you to look at their site and say what you think?
I am worried about getting caught in something even though its me who has 
lost in this transition.
Mick.
""nightjar" <cpb@ .me.uk" <email_address> wrote in 
message news:<email_address>
<quote>"
    @insertmysurnamehere: ""Mick Cant" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>
I'd be hapy to do so, although the fact they are not answering the phone or 
the door is the strongest indication they have gone under. This is the quiet 
season, so it is when ink cartridge businesses are most likely to fail.
Send details to me at cp<surname>@<surname>online.co.uk subsituting my 
surname, in lower case, for <surname>
Colin Bignell "
    @mrcycleuk: "Hi all,
      I have top posted to hopefully make it easier to read, but my original 
post is underneath.
I was very surprised today Friday 12th June to receive the ink jet 
cartridges by recorded delivery 26 days after the payment was taken.
No note to say sorry for delay, but at least I have the goods.
Thanks all for your help.
Mick.
"Mick Cant" <email_address> wrote in message 
news:<email_address>
<quote>"
    @invalid: "<quote>
     <snip>
That's good news Mick. You should be stocked up for a while now :) (You are 
entitled to return the goods under the provisions of the distance Selling 
Regulations for a refund of the cost of the goods, but whether you would get 
one I don't know). I wouldn't like to guess just how long they will remain 
in business or why anyone would deal with them again if they think that's an 
acceptable way to treat customers.
Joe Lee"
{'source': 'USENET', 'other_information': '{"reply_count": 22, "forum_name": "uk.legal.moderated.20141124.mbox"}', 'file': 'data/output/usenet-uk.legal.parquet'}