@byokem: "<url>
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @rshahan: "I saw Oklahoma on the list?
Ray Shahan
Computer Programmer
 REPUBLIC TITLE OF TEXAS, INC.
  2701 W Plano Parkway=20
Plano, TX 75075
=20
direct +1-503-652-7973
main +1-503-652-7973
fax +1-503-652-7973
 <url>
<email_address>
=20
-Original Message-
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:<email_address>] On
Behalf Of Johnson, Tracy
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:35 AM
To: <email_address>
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Warning
Brice announces:
<quote>
My Xearth program show the suspected area as a little yellow circle.
I pasted it here as jpeg:
<url>
or a 2.5MB bitmap:
<url>
Data on the globe is retrieved from the feed:
<url>
(Get it while it's hot, the data of N.Korea quake is only 3 from the
bottom of this list before it drops off.  I digress, USGS has the 7 day
feeds instead.)
Tracy Johnson
Measurement Specialties, Inc.=20
BT
NNNN
=20
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* etc., please visit <url> *
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @caroldarnell: "I just hope the little boy who cried 'WOLF' regarding certain other WMD=20=
didn't blow his chances.  Perhaps he just is hoping that NK will pop an=20=
oil gusher as a result of the tremors caused by the test????
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @church05: "Well, not too fast. Later reports indicate that it is a sub-kiloton blast.
That means it was very small pop.
In comparison, or "MOAB" has an 18 kiloton yield, and that is not a nuclear
weapon.
In all probability, they used some of the fissionable material they had on
hand, and tested the triggering mechanism. 
mc
-Original Message-
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:<email_address>] On Behalf
Of Carol Darnell
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:00 PM
To: <email_address>
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Warning
I just hope the little boy who cried 'WOLF' regarding certain other WMD 
didn't blow his chances.  Perhaps he just is hoping that NK will pop an 
oil gusher as a result of the tremors caused by the test????
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "Brice,
was to be expected.
Gaddafi gave up and Kim did the opposite.
So, does everybody that cheered for George when Gaddafi gave up his=20
ambition, also think that this is partly for the same reason?
Michael
-
There is so much which needs to be said here, but I will try to be breif.=
1)  If GWB would have invaded N. Korea, the same kind of noise from his
opponents would have been made.  He didn't give diplomacy a chance, he=20=
needed to work with Communist China and the rest of the world community
to put pressure on, etc.
2)  The is the result of another war we did not have permission to win.
3)  Gaddafi had more reason to be afraid than Kim Jong Il, for reasons
that, if you do just a little bit of research, you could find out.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @TracyJohnson: "But Richter scale 4.2 fits on the same area with what the Pakistani's
were doing (the last one I googled had a Pakistani test at about 4.1.) =20
<url>
Then there's my Richter scale bookmarks with nuke equivalent next page
down:
<url>
Meaning a small nuke fits in the Magnitude 4 area of the scale.
By comparison, we know 1KT explosive puts out 4.0 magnitude quake:
<url>
A 4.2 would be about twenty times that 20KT, maybe a little less.
Then in August it was determined NK had actually used a chemical
explosion that registered 2.3 with by only setting off two tons of TNT:
<url>
Perhaps they were excavating the hole with which they did today's test?
Tracy Johnson
Measurement Specialties, Inc.=20
BT
NNNN
<quote>
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "Brice, GWB wouldn't have invaded anyone.. he'd have remained safely (?) a=
t=20
home and sent others to do his bidding (and far too many to come home in=20=
pine boxes).  The point is that NK was a far more serious threat than SH=20=
ever was.  The international community has been on edge regarding Korea=20=
for many, many years - well over 50 as a matter of fact.  The situation=20=
between North and South Korea has varied from simmering to near-boil-over=
,=20
but we've tended to ignore that because it had little economic impact.
It's just a damned shame that it took an atomic test to get GWB's=20
attention, or at least a bit of it.
-
Does it matter?
You really think Red China would sit on their duff's while NK was invaded=
?
You really think GWB's opponents would have been silent and supported
such a move before this?  This has been building for much longer than
GWB has been in office, it just happened on his watch.=20=20
Lot's of countries are making noise about NK test, just like they made
noise about Iraq and the WMD's.  But let someone actually DO something
about it, and the armchair quarterbacks will be out in full force.
Just watch...
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @jlee: "Hmmm, I seem to recall an "axis of evil" that GWB referred to many years 
ago??  Looks to me like he was right on.  Well, on second thought, I think 
he missed a couple.
John Lee
<quote>
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "Hmmm, I seem to recall an "axis of evil" that GWB referred to many years=20=
ago??  Looks to me like he was right on.  Well, on second thought, I thin=
k=20
he missed a couple.
John Lee
I think he picked the top three (or bottom) depending on your prespective=
.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @denysnospamwanted: "<url>
Denys
-Original Message-
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:<email_address>] On Behalf
Of Carol Darnell
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:28 PM
To: <email_address>
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Warning
Brice, GWB wouldn't have invaded anyone.. he'd have remained safely (?) a
t 
home and sent others to do his bidding (and far too many to come home in 
pine boxes).  The point is that NK was a far more serious threat than SH 
ever was.  The international community has been on edge regarding Korea 
for many, many years - well over 50 as a matter of fact.  The situation 
between North and South Korea has varied from simmering to near-boil-over
, 
but we've tended to ignore that because it had little economic impact.
It's just a damned shame that it took an atomic test to get GWB's 
attention, or at least a bit of it.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "<url>
Denys
-
You have really outdid yourself here...
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @H_MICHAEL_BAIER: "On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:05:08 -0400, Brice Yokem <email_address> wrote:=
<quote>
=20
nk=20
e.
and why are the others left alone?
Seems the are and were a far more serious threat.
But NK has no oil. what a bummer.
For the serious humor.
<url>
Robin Williams: 'The whole system sucks'
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters)  To hear comedian Robin Williams tell=
=20
it, politics as usual in the United States is no laughing matter, even if=
=20
he makes a lot of jokes about it in his new movie "Man of the Year."
"This is not about one party or another. This is about how the whole syst=
em=20
sucks," Williams told reporters.
He criticized the influence of special interest groups, the millions of=20=
dollars needed to campaign for office and the negative advertisements=20
candidates use to hurt their rivals.
Director Barry Levinson's satirical "Man of the Year" hits theaters on=20=
Friday, aiming to tap into voter disenchantment ahead of the November U.S=
.=20
election with a story about an acerbic talk show host, played by Williams=
,=20
who runs for president.
Williams teamed with Levinson for 1987's anti-war film "Good Morning=20
Vietnam," and it earned the comedian an Oscar nomination for acting. This=
=20
time around the pair is trying to shed light on a political system the tw=
o=20
believe is deeply flawed.
Levinson has been down this road before with 1997 political satire "Wag t=
he=20
Dog," about how a Hollywood producer and a Washington public relations=20=
expert concoct a fake war to cover up a presidential sex scandal. During=20=
the term of President Bill Clinton, that story sounded all too familiar.
" 'Wag the Dog' was made in a more innocent time and a less cynical time,=
"=20
Levinson said. "We are in a much darker period, a much more cynical perio=
d,=20
therefore you have to find a movie that is going to work in another time.=
"
In "Man of the Year," Williams portrays political commentator Tom Dobbs w=
ho=20
runs for president as an independent candidate in an election that is=20
marred by a glitch in computerized voting. Sound familiar?
Not only are marred vote counts a fact of presidential campaigns, but a=20=
celebrity running for office is nothing new. There is, after all,=20
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, and fans of Jon Stewart and Oprah=20=
Winfrey are printing T-shirts and running Web sites to draft them for=20
president in 2008.
Williams might make a good candidate, although he says he is not=20
interested. He is beloved by fans who remember him in movie roles such as=
=20
the divorced father who dresses as a nanny to be near his kids in "Mrs.=20=
Doubtfire."
Moreover, there is a serious side to him that has shown through in recent=
=20
years in dramas such as 1997's "Good Will Hunting," for which he won an=20=
Oscar.
In "Man of the Year," Williams' fans see both the old comic satirically=20=
ripping the U.S. system and the new dramatic actor who has a rather simpl=
e=20
message for lawmakers: Tell the truth.
Yet, the star said being a real-world public servant is not on his agenda=
,=20
and he wondered how his past drug and alcohol use, which as recently as=20=
August landed him in rehabilitation, would sound in those nasty campaign=20=
ads.
He considered what might have happened to Thomas Jefferson  the princip=
al=20
author of the Declaration of Independence, third U.S. president and=20
ambassador to France  if he had been forced to publicly acknowledge an=20=
affair with black slave Sally Hemings.
"You might be extremely qualified, but if your life isn't squeaky clean,=20=
you can't be president," he said. "If you applied the same moral standard=
s=20
to most of the presidents we've had, they wouldn't even be nominated."
Then, the serious Williams turned funny. "Mr. Jefferson, you've got a cal=
l=20
on line 2," he said, then changed his voice to mimick Hemings: "I told yo=
u,=20
I wouldn't wait in Paris...You said I'd be first lady."
The reporters laughed but to Williams, it was no joke.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @jdpurcell02: "Michael
Remove oil from your life and see what you have left. Please list all of=20=
things you use that do not require oil.
Thanks
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* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @shawn: "Butter possibly.
the harsh reality is that there is no more important commodity on 
this planet than oil, if there is one thing worth shedding blood for 
at this point, it probably is oil.
<quote>
Regards,
Shawn Gordon
President
theKompany.com
<url>
<url>
+1-503-652-7973
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @TracyJohnson: "Shawn says:
<quote>
Conflict diamonds are 2nd place!
Tracy Johnson
Measurement Specialties, Inc.=20
BT
NNNN
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "and why are the others left alone?
Seems the are and were a far more serious threat.
But NK has no oil. what a bummer.
-
Again I ask you, if it was about OOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIILLLLLLL, where is the=20=
OOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @H_MICHAEL_BAIER: "On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:23:45 -0400, Brice Yokem <email_address> wrote:=
<quote>
Just check the profits of the oil-industry since Iraq.=20
RECORDS after RECORDS thanks to George and friends.
Lets not forget the friends of Dicky "Halliburton"=20
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @jdpurcell02: "Please come up with a better argument. The commodity market is making=20
boatloads of money. I didn't know Peru was in Iraq also. Is DR Horton in=20=
Iraq also they where making a ton of money. Why go all the way to Iraq to=
=20
get oil, lets invade Canada, we've been dying to do that since the 1780's=
.=20
Lets dig up Aaron Burr and Hamilton, they will lead the charge. Lets=20
invade Mexico they have oil although they are runnng out, wait till that=20=
happens you think we have a border problem now. The price of oil is drive=
n=20
by the market what is available and who is paying for it. High fuel=20
charges is a monetary problem. Since the Dollar is worthless it takes mor=
e=20
of them to buy something on the world market. The argument that China and=
=20
India are using more is true but not the full reason. Back in the late=20=
90's China and India economy was growing at a faster pace then they are=20=
now and oil was around $22 a barrel. But as Greenspan was lowering intres=
t=20
rates to move the US economy he was cheapening the dollar, hence it took=20=
more dollars to purchase on the world market. If you live in Cali and I=20=
ask Shawn to confirm, isn't cali mandates to get the lowest sulphur=20
content fuel to refine? Which I think limits Cali getting there Crude fro=
m=20
Nigeria which has the lightest sweetest crude around. This is teh same=20=
Nigeria which is kidnapping workers and has citizens tapping into the=20
pipeline with drills to steal oil. If oil runs low because the pipeline=20=
explodes guess who pays more.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @shawn: "very good points.  There are a number of problems with the pricing of 
oil, and the oil companies do in fact have little or nothing to do 
with it.  I hear idealess liberals claiming that conservatives are 
controlling the price to help win elections, if that was the case it 
would be down to $.50 a gallon now.
Here is the irony, California doesn't get any of its oil from Opec 
nations, it comes from California, Alaska and Canada, but we have 
pretty much the highest price per gallon in the country.  The price 
will jump here $.10 a gallon the minute the price of oil 
changes.  But we have this lame thing with "seasonal blends" where 
the swap out the gas a few times a year to supposedly reduce 
polition, first they were putting in MTCB's, then found out that 
instead of cleaning the air, it was polluting the ground, so now 
we're going to add the even more expensive Ethanol.  There are 30 to 
40 different blends in the country and you can't swap between 
regions, I think this is one of the largest contributors to price 
problems.  You could probably drop another $.50 a gallon if you got 
rid of all the regional and seasonal blends.
<quote>
Regards,
Shawn Gordon
President
theKompany.com
<url>
<url>
+1-503-652-7973
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "Just check the profits of the oil-industry since Iraq.=20
RECORDS after RECORDS thanks to George and friends.
-
So, the War in Iraq was not to get the oil there, but to prevent getting=20=
it?
And Tony Blair is in bed with the oil companies also?
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @hp_3000: "Quoting Brice Yokem <email_address>:
<quote>
had the first child to be born to a sitting prime minister since (if memory
serves) the late 1800's. :)
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "=46rom the evidence, I'd say Tony Blair has been in bed with his wife -=20=
since they
had the first child to be born to a sitting prime minister since (if memo=
ry
serves) the late 1800's. :)
Now it makes sense, THAT's why we are in Iraq!
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @jlee: "I don't think ethanol is a problem, Shawn.  We've (in MN) used a 10% blend 
for years, so has Iowa.  Right now, I pay $2.15/gallon, Iowa is even 
lower.  In fact, while traveling through Iowa, Nebraska and Colorado late 
this summer, Iowa's gas was at least .50 less than NE or CO.
John Lee
<quote>
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @H_MICHAEL_BAIER: "On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:25:30 -0400, Brice Yokem <email_address> wrote:=
<quote>
ory
Hey,
maybe George should do the same and try that again for a change.
;-)
Then why are we in Iraq?
NK was much closer to WMD as shown. Given to them  by a Pakistani, lets n=
ot=20
forget.
Iran seems closer or wants it very much.
Syria is unknown.
All openly support terror-organizations
All had nothing to do with 9/11.
yet we ended up in Iraq. why?=20
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "Hey,
maybe George should do the same and try that again for a change.
;-)
Then why are we in Iraq?
NK was much closer to WMD as shown. Given to them  by a Pakistani, lets=20=
not=20
forget.
Iran seems closer or wants it very much.
Syria is unknown.
All openly support terror-organizations
All had nothing to do with 9/11.
yet we ended up in Iraq. why?=20
Just theory, but how about these reasons.
1)  Saddam played bait and switch with the inspectors to the point where
the head of that effort quit.
2)  Saddam had to be driven out of another country by military force to
get him to leave, leaving another job to do.
3)  Saddam had used chemical weapons before.
4)  He had cheated and cheated and cheated on agreements.
5)  The UN has a long history of failure at getting rogue nations to=20
behave themselves.
6)  The CIA under George Tenant did a really careless job.
7)  Saddam had been asking for it for a long time.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @H_MICHAEL_BAIER: "On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:23:06 -0400, Brice Yokem <email_address> wrote:=
<quote>
Wrong. The inspectors didn't find anything and recall the words and=20
statements from Blix. He was absolutely right.
like so many others
yes, 10yrs before supplied and without consequences by Bush I.
like so many others
so george decides who he dislikes enough to start a war?
absolutely
true, but so do many others
so now according to some new studies we have over 650,000 civilians kille=
d.
What a success, right.=20
Of course George and friends deny this. The big planners !!!!
This is, what a british Army's chief of general staff thinks and says:
<url>
Dannatt, who took over as the Army's chief of general staff in August, sa=
id=20
the U.S.-led coalition's plan to establish a democracy in Iraq that would=
=20
be "exemplar for the region" is unlikely to happen.
"That was the hope. Whether that was a sensible or naive hope, history wi=
ll=20
judge," he said. "I don't think we are going to do that. I think we shoul=
d=20
aim for a lower ambition."
Dannatt's views directly contradict the position of British Prime Ministe=
r=20
Tony Blair, who is a staunch supporter of the war and U.S. President Geor=
ge=20
W. Bush's closest ally in the fight.=20
But with the country edging nearer to civil war  if not already immerse=
d=20
in it  Dannatt said the strategy for implementing an Iraqi democracy wa=
s=20
ill-prepared.
"I think history will show that the planning for what happened after the=20=
initial, successful war-fighting phase was poor, probably based more on=20=
optimism than sound planning," he said.
Dannatt said that Britain had essentially overstayed its welcome in Iraq.=
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @H_MICHAEL_BAIER: "On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:23:06 -0400, Brice Yokem <email_address> wrote:=
Brice,
so much for George and democracy.
A clear show of his hypocrite.
<url>
U.S. seen retreating from democracy push By David Morgan=20
Thu Oct 12, 12:34 PM ET
=20
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has quietly retreated from its=20=
high-profile push for democracy in the Muslim world, since the Hamas=20
election stunned the Bush administration by bringing a violent militant=20=
group to power.=20
Despite President George W. Bush's continued public focus on=20
democratization, analysts say U.S. policy-makers saw the Hamas victory in=
=20
the Palestinian territories as part of a potentially dangerous trend=20
following democratic gains for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and=20
Hezbollah in Lebanon.
In each instance, elections were seen to boost adversaries of U.S. ally=20=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Israel, and in the case of Hamas and Hezbollah, groups labeled as terrori=
st=20
organizations by Washington.
The experience in Iraq, which U.S. officials once envisioned as the=20
catalyst for democratic change in Arab countries, has emerged instead as =
a=20
disturbing symbol of sectarian strife.
"Frankly, the administration has retreated even from a passive push for=20=
democracy," said Michael Rubin, resident scholar at the American Enterpri=
se=20
Institute, a conservative think tank.
Washington is now largely silent about actions taken by Middle East regim=
es=20
to suppress political opposition.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who made an impassioned speech about=
=20
democracy in Cairo last year, did not publicly criticize Egypt's repressi=
ve=20
tactics during her recent visit.
"A lot of regimes are detecting a green light to go back to the past,"=20=
Rubin said. "It's undercut any kind of credibility the United States has,=
=20
not just now but well into the future, in any calls for reform."
Policy analysts have warned that eroding U.S. credibility on=20
democratization jeopardizes American efforts to use reform as a weapon=20=
against growing Islamist militancy and al Qaeda propaganda.
They say the United States faces a generational struggle in the Muslim=20=
world, where deep-seated suspicion about American motives is exacerbated =
by=20
the repressive and corrupt practices of governments allied with Washingto=
n.
"Greater pluralism and more responsive political systems in Muslim-majori=
ty=20
nations would alleviate some of the grievances jihadists exploit,"=20
according to a recently declassified intelligence report on global=20
terrorism trends.
'PERCEPTION OF HYPOCRISY'
The credibility problem is complicated by Bush's use of the democracy the=
me=20
in speeches. Before the U.N. General Assembly, he portrayed the United=20=
States as a friend of freedom but cited autocratic regimes, including Sau=
di=20
Arabia, as reformers.
"People in the region know about the Saudi government. They're not naive,=
"=20
said Thomas Carothers, head of the Democracy and Rule of Law Project at t=
he=20
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
"The perception of hypocrisy is extremely high," he said.
Ellen Laipson, former vice chairwoman of the National Intelligence Counci=
l,=20
a leading government think tank, suggested the White House may have now=20=
adopted a more pragmatic, longer term approach to reform.
"It is not something that they're going to be able to say they completed =
on=20
their watch, or that they even know it is going to work on their watch,"=20=
said Laipson, now head of the Henry L. Stimson Center, a public policy=20=
institute.
The Bush administration has supported democratization through programs su=
ch=20
the Middle East Partnership Initiative, which has allocated almost $300=20=
million over four years to reform, education and economic development.=20=
But according to Rubin and former intelligence officials, democratization=
=20
was never fully embraced by rank-and-file officials including diplomats,=20=
partly because the National Security Council failed to establish it as a=20=
priority.=20
Pro-democracy groups in Arab countries have become increasingly pessimist=
ic=20
about the prospects for meaningful reform. This year, Saudi liberals said=
=20
they had abandoned hope the United States would pressure the government,=20=
even privately, to reform the absolute monarchy.=20
Even in Afghanistan, which Washington showcases as a democratic success=20=
story, observers cite a lack of follow-through on last year's elections f=
or=20
parliament and provincial councils.=20
"We are particularly concerned that there appears to be no effort going=20=
into helping build political parties ... as well as no talk of the distri=
ct=20
and municipal elections that are supposed to be held under the=20
constitution," said Joanna Nathan, a Kabul-based analyst for Internationa=
l=20
Crisis Group.=20
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
    @byokem: "Michael -
If you are wanting me to say I fault GWB for having a poor plan for=20
winning the peace over there, I have already done that.  Making
Iraq into a Democratic country is a tough job, whether GWB is up
to it or not still has to be shown.  It does not help for Iran
supporters like John Kerry to preach the cut and run sermon, though.
GWB opponents would be willing to sabotage the effort over there if
they can do it in a way that make GWB look bad.
* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit <url> *"
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