Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 1 of 42 Plaintiff Exhibit DDD Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 2 of 42 Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT CIVIL ACTION NO: 3:18-cv-01322-KAD MAY 29, 2020 -------------------------------------- JANE DOE, Plaintiff -vs- TOWN OF GREENWICH, ET AL, Defendant -------------------------------------- DEPOSITION OF RICHARD M. HOUGH, SR., Ph.D. APPEARANCES: BRAXTON HOOK, LLC Attorneys for the Plaintiff 280 Railroad Avenue, Suite 205 Greenwich, Connecticut 06830 PHONE: 640-646-8333 E MAIL: yjenkins@example.com BY: ELIZABETH I. HOOK, ATTORNEY-AT-LAW MITCHELL & SHEAHAN, P.C. Attorneys for the Defendant Sergeant Detective Brent Reeves and Detective Krystie M. Rondini 80 Ferry Boulevard, Suite 216 Stratford, Connecticut 06615 PHONE: 640-646-8333 E MAIL: yjenkins@example.com BY: ROBERT B. MITCHELL, ESQUIRE REESE B. MITCHELL, ESQUIRE yjenkins@example.com Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 3 of 42 Page 7 1 THEREUPON, 2 R I C H A R D M. H O U G H, S R., P h. D., 3 Residing in Florida, 4 first having been duly sworn, was examined and 5 testified as follows: 6 THE WITNESS: My name is Richard Hough, and 7 my address would be -- 8 MR. MITCHELL: I want to put on the record 9 that Dr. Hough has requested not to give his 10 address due to security issues. Florida has a 11 statute that says that he does not have to give 12 his address, however, we have produced a -- he 13 will produce a passport as identification for 14 purposes of this deposition. 15 THE WITNESS: Right. The address that I 16 would supply would be a mail area for office, 17 not -- yeah, not a home address. 18 (Whereupon, there was a discussion off the 19 record.) 20 THE WITNESS: Florida is fine. 21 MR. MITCHELL: Before we get started, I 22 just want to, the defendant -- the witness is 23 reserving the right to read and sign. 24 MS. HOOK: All right. Can we just take a 25 five minute break and talk about the recording Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 4 of 42 Page 11 1 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: You may speak. 2 MS. HOOK: All right. This is the very 3 first video deposition we are doing in this 4 case. The bandwidth and the internet access is 5 spotty. It's not clear that everybody is going 6 to have a full hearing or understanding of what 7 is being said by any of the parties. The audio 8 recording of the Zoom meeting of the 9 videoconference has no legal basis. It is 10 not -- cannot be used in court. It has no 11 authority. It is nothing other than to clarify 12 for the parties who are participating who may 13 not be able to understand or hear because of 14 internet connection interruptions what is 15 happening. 16 So, the purpose of it is to not -- the 17 rules speak to video recording, the way that 18 we've done it in the past, that is, usable in 19 court. This is not that type of video 20 recording. It's merely recording the 21 proceedings as if a tape recorder were in the 22 room. 23 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Understood. I would 24 object to that too. I object to this. We're 25 not going to go forward unless you give up on Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 5 of 42 Page 12 1 this or we go to the Judge. You have to call 2 the Judge. 3 MS. HOOK: All right. 4 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Go ahead and call 5 her. 6 MS. HOOK: Okay. So, let's put this on 7 pause for a few minutes and we'll go to the 8 Judge. 9 (Whereupon, there was a discussion off the 10 record.) 11 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: What did the Judge 12 say, Liz? 13 MS. HOOK: I left a message. The Judge, 14 obviously, is not in chambers. 15 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Well, probably she's yjenkins@example.com. 17 MS. HOOK: Well, I don't know that the 18 Judge is actually in the chambers or anybody is 19 in chambers. 20 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Oh, at all, you mean? 21 Oh, I didn't understand that. I thought you 22 left a message for somebody who was there. 23 So, what do you want to do? 24 MS. HOOK: Wait for them to call back. 25 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: They probably won't. Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 6 of 42 Page 13 1 I mean, we can go forward, just do the 2 transcript, don't have the recording, that's 3 all, or we can reschedule it. 4 MS. HOOK: The problem with that, Bob, and 5 I'm not sure I understand what your objection is 6 because it can't be used for anything other than 7 to help those people who have spotty internet 8 connection. And Miss Kindley will attest to the 9 fact that when we first got on, there was 10 difficulty with the internet connection. It's 11 not -- this is a new process. I think that all 12 of the parties ought to be a little bit more 13 cooperative about making this process 14 successful. There is no danger of using that 15 Zoom recording for anything other than to fill 16 in gaps, so. 17 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: There's always a 18 danger. I don't want to use it to fill in gaps. 19 That's my point. I don't want it used for 20 anything. It's like I would not allow you to 21 have a Dictaphone machine. 22 MS. HOOK: What is the danger? 23 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: The danger is that 24 somehow there will be a contradiction between 25 the transcript and what somebody thinks this Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 7 of 42 Page 15 1 transcript, certified by the reporter, is 2 correct or not, whether the tape recording 3 undermines the integrity of the transcript. I'm 4 not going to go for it. I'm not going to take 5 that risk. 6 MS. HOOK: So, you haven't answered the 7 question. Those tape recordings in those cases 8 that you said in the past that people brought up 9 some kind of a conflict, was that successful in 10 getting the transcript changed? 11 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: I believe it was. 12 But I'm not going to go through the conflict. 13 I'm just not going to do it. 14 MS. HOOK: All right. Why don't we proceed 15 with the deposition, and if they call back, then 16 we could get on the phone. 17 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Only if you agree not 18 to record it. 19 MS. HOOK: We won't record it until we get 20 a ruling from the Judge. 21 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Do you have that, 22 Jean, Miss Kindley? 23 (Whereupon, there was a discussion off the 24 record.) 25 MR. ROBERT MITCHELL: Unless the Judge says Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 8 of 42 Page 16 1 it's all right. 2 I'm going to excuse myself for a few 3 minutes and my son will takeover. 4 MS. HOOK: Okay. Okay. So, back to where 5 we were. 6 Can you swear in the witness? 7 (Whereupon, there was a discussion off the 8 record.) 9 MS. HOOK: Did we -- I'm sorry. All right. 10 DIRECT EXAMINATION 11 BY MS. HOOK: 12 Q Okay. So, Dr. Hough, I see -- okay. I have got 13 to figure out how to do this in a way that makes sense. 14 I see by your CV that you have been deposed 15 many, many times, so I'm not going to go through too much of 16 the rules. But you do understand that we have to take turns 17 speaking, we can't speak over each other. 18 Is there anything that is preventing -- that 19 would prevent you from being able to give truthful testimony 20 today? 21 A No, ma'am. 22 Q Is there anything that would prevent you from -- 23 would impair your memory in any way? 24 A No. 25 Q Okay. So, let's start. Exhibit 1 is the Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 9 of 42 Page 17 1 subpoena. 2 MS. HOOK: If everybody could take a look 3 at Exhibit 1 that was provided to everyone. 4 BY MS. HOOK: 5 Q Okay. Do you recognize this document, Dr. 6 Hough? 7 A I do. 8 Q Okay. And is this the subpoena that was issued 9 to you for this deposition? 10 A It is. 11 Q Okay. And did you provide everything that you 12 have in your case materials that was not already in the 13 possession of plaintiffs? 14 A That is correct. 15 Q Okay. So, let's go to Exhibit 2, and that is 16 your CV. 17 MS. HOOK: Does everybody have Exhibit 2 18 available? 19 MS. WADLER: Yes. 20 BY MS. HOOK: 21 Q Do you have it, Dr. Hough? 22 A I do. 23 Q Okay. So, on the first page of your CV, it says 24 that you have a Doctor of Education in Public Administration 25 concentration. Can you please explain what that means, what Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 10 of 42 Page 23 1 Q That's 2006, '07? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Okay. And one of the courses you 1ist as having 4 taught -- well, first of all, you say courses taught in 5 addition to those listed below, so are you saying that this 6 is not a complete list of the courses that you taught, this 7 is a representative list? 8 A That's correct. The various -- over the course 9 of my career, these various roles in different periods of 10 time, I tried to group together courses that I may have been 11 teaching in that period, in that particular time period, but 12 there are many, and I think what you would see, and we could 13 go through these, and I'm scrolling, as we look at each of 14 the different time periods that have been identified, all of 15 those different courses are ones that I have taught multiple 16 times in different places and different times. 17 Q Okay. You list this for the University of West 18 Florida, and for the school year, I presume of 2006 to 2007, 19 would that be correct? 20 A Yes, that seems to be it, yes. 21 Q Okay. So, when you say courses taught in 22 addition, there is quite a few courses listed here, and 23 these are not all of them, how -- how many credits were each 24 of these courses? How many courses did you teach in that 25 school year? Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 11 of 42 Page 24 1 A This, the '06/'07 would probably include the 2 summer semester so you would see typically three semesters 3 here. Each of these courses is a three semester hour 4 course, and typically the load is four classes in each 5 semester. So, I was just trying, as you were asking that 6 question, to count here. Ten, I think, as I see here, ten, 7 ten courses. So, that's probably right because the summer 8 semester, excuse me, typically is less. This semester right 9 now, I'm teaching two courses because it's the summer. 10 Q Okay. And you have listed here Sex Crimes 11 Investigation, can you give us a synopsis of what that 12 course was about? 13 A I think so. That would be for, again, an 14 undergraduate student audience to look at factors of various 15 types of sex crimes, a background to those crimes, how 16 statutes address those issues, and then from a law 17 enforcement standpoint as well as other ancillary 18 organizations, how do sex crimes and investigating their 19 occurrence move along through a criminal justice system, and 20 what are the functions of the various people involved in the 21 criminal justice system, and, as I said, other agencies and 22 entities. 23 Q Did you focus at all on the conduct of an 24 investigation in that course? 25 A Oh, yes, absolutely. Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 12 of 42 Page 25 1 Q And to what degree did you focus on the conduct? 2 You just described a very wide, broad range of information 3 that you provided during that course, so to the extent that 4 you focused on investigation, what did you teach? 5 A To the extent that I could remember from 14 6 years ago, the offering of that particular course, which is 7 questionable in terms of remembering that from 14 years ago. 8 The textbook, which I don't know, sitting here today, I 9 don't know what textbook I was using, but they are likely 10 within a four month standard university semester. If, in 11 fact, that was taught in the four month semester versus a 12 six week semester over the summer, and I don't know, that 13 would probably have in the textbook at least a chapter that 14 focused on typical steps in typical types of sex crime 15 investigations. 16 Q Okay. Further down, you have listed that you 17 were an instructor of criminology and criminal justice from 18 1999 to the present at the University of West Florida, and 19 at a different campus at Pensacola, and, again, these are 20 very similar topics. So, is this just a continuation of the 21 same courses, types of courses that you taught at that 22 university? 23 A To a large extent, that would be correct since 24 that was a more brief period of time at the remote campus, 25 which is the Emerald Coast campus, that was, as we counted, Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 13 of 42 Page 26 1 just a smaller grouping of courses as well as overseeing 2 adjuncts who taught other courses on that campus. And so, 3 from when I began teaching in that department, and it was 4 named differently way back then, but these would be some of 5 the other courses. And, yes, some of those are unique and 6 some of those are redundant. 7 Q Okay. And you've got listed sex crimes 8 investigation, so I presume it's a similar course, if not an 9 identical course to the one listed above? 10 A That is correct. 11 Q Okay. And then turn to what is listed as page 12 16 of 35. 13 A Okay. 14 Q Under curriculum development, do you have that 15 page? 16 A I do. 17 Q Okay. You've got courses created, sex crimes 18 investigation, is that, again, the same course that was 19 referred to in the earlier two entries? 20 A It is. 21 Q Okay. Did anyone work with you on creating that 22 course? 23 A No. 24 Q Okay. I was unable to find any other courses or 25 instructions on sex crime investigation. Is there anything Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 14 of 42 Page 27 1 that I missed in the CV other than those three? 2 A In terms of calling out and using the actual 3 three words, sex crimes investigation, I don't know, 4 obviously, or hopefully obviously, certainly obviously to me 5 or whoever else I explain it to in the future, such as the 6 jury, the 47 years of my experience in teaching detectives, 7 and students, and police officers incorporates the teaching 8 of sex crimes investigation, and certainly more broadly and 9 on point, how to conduct investigations pretty much 10 continuously for 40 years, which I still do, and that would 11 include at the law enforcement academy level. 12 Q Okay. So, if I understand your answer, sex 13 crime investigation is a component of your general 14 instructions over the course of 40 years? 15 A It certainly would be included within those and, 16 again, in a variety of different venues, and topics, and 17 courses, both in the academy as well as in college and 18 university courses. 19 Q Okay. So, let's turn to page 26 of 35. So, 20 besides teaching courses, you have given presentations in 21 various organizational settings, correct? 22 A Yes, I have. 23 Q Okay. And in close to the bottom of that page, 24 2019, you have listed that you were a subject matter expert 25 on intimate partner violence and protecting the rights of Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 15 of 42 Page 28 1 women and children in a briefing on U.S. efforts to empower 2 women and combat violence for the Department of State's 3 International Visitor Leadership Program for the delegation 4 from Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan. That is quite a 5 mouthful. Can you explain what that is, what that was, that 6 presentation? 7 A Absolutely. And I've done versions of that 8 presentation for a variety of international groups coming in 9 as part of the U.S. State Department's program that you, 10 that you just mentioned. That has to do with the overall 11 approach and practices used predominantly in the United 12 States for addressing violence against women, predominantly 13 we recognize that a small segment of intimate partner 14 violence is women against men, but we know statistically and 15 as a focus that it is overwhelmingly men against women and 16 girls, and so this has to do with the cultural and 17 professional interchange with these groups, who are 18 professionals, as well as up and coming leaders in their own 19 countries, as well as a couple of very specific visits that 20 we had one-on-one with some of the State Department's named 21 Worldwide Women of Courage on these kinds of issues that 22 have to do with violence against women and against children. 23 Q And what sort of issues did you discuss or 24 methods, U.S. methods did you share with the deligations 25 from Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan in terms of curbing Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 16 of 42 Page 29 1 violence against women? 2 A Very often what we find to be effective in 3 jurisdictions, not only in the U.S., but where it does exist 4 around the world, is the use of task force approach, 5 recognizing that because intimate partner violence, like 6 much violence, is intergenerationally transmitted. It is 7 something that is not unique to the United States or to any 8 given country, that it also is a matter that takes the 9 efforts of so many in society, I think the argument could be 10 made for everybody in society, making people aware of the 11 various challenges of the unknown often nature or frequency 12 of such types of violence, like much other violence. And 13 so, this idea of task force approach utilizing partners 14 throughout society, whether those are criminal justice, the 15 health sector and medical sector, schools certainly from an 16 educational standpoint, community partnerships, whether 17 that's from the business community and your local chamber of 18 commerce to just broader educational campaigns, whether 19 those are public service announcements in using the media, 20 et cetera. So, just a bit of an all hands on deck approach 21 to a problem that's been with us throughout history. 22 Q And would special departments within a police 23 department, such as the special victims section, would that 24 be one of the methods that you discussed and imparted to 25 those delegates, the development and application of such Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 17 of 42 Page 44 1 have to say. 2 A I can see why. 3 Q So, you did testify a number of times on law 4 enforcement practices and investigative practices. Do you 5 recall the outcome of any of those cases? 6 A I have, as you say, testified in a number of 7 those. I would not want to guess. I don't recall because I 8 don't necessarily have an in-depth conversation at any point 9 later about whether a case resolves. Typically, if there is 10 typical for doing a few of these, that the attorney will 11 send an E mail to just to let you know the case is resolved. 12 I don't necessarily recontact him to ask him what particular 13 way. 14 I am aware for some of the ones where, for 15 instance, if I worked with the law firm previously, it's 16 typically been resolved in favor, if, again, 90 or so 17 percent of these are defendant cases, where it has resolved 18 in favor of the defendant, which, of course, I can't control 19 set of facts, but that's been the outcome generally. 20 Q So, I'm sorry, I'm not clear. Did you just say 21 that 90 percent of the cases that you testified in on behalf 22 of defendants resolved in favor of the defendants? 23 A It may be 100 percent. What I tried to say was 24 I'm not sure, and so it would be -- 25 Q So, you are guessing that 90 percent or Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 18 of 42 Page 45 1 100 percent resolved in favor of the defendants? 2 A No, I'm not really guessing. What I tried to 3 say was I don't follow back up and ask for a feedback 4 session on my particular role in a case. But what I've had 5 are the variety of attorneys, you know, generally saying 6 that it's resolved, and if I have a phone call or an E mail 7 with somebody, it has generally been the case that it 8 resolved in favor of whatever the, you know, client, the 9 defendant was that I was dealing with. Obviously, with 10 these cases, you can, you know, check on that yourself if 11 that's, you know, an important, an important matter. So, I 12 would simply say, my memory would not allow me to just tell 13 you each one of these how they turned out. 14 Q Okay. I'm just confused about, you say on the 15 one hand that your memory doesn't allow you to say for sure, 16 and that you rely on various attorneys following up with 17 you, but yet certain -- with certainty you said that 90 18 percent or maybe 100 percent resolved in favor of the 19 defendant. How did you reach those percentages with that 20 degree of uncertainty? 21 MR. MITCHELL: Objection. 22 THE WITNESS: I appreciate the banter, 23 counsel, on memory versus what's listed here. 24 These things aren't a batting average, not 25 for me, I offer services to -- Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 19 of 42 Page 46 1 BY MS. HOOK: 2 Q But you provided the percentages? 3 A We're not going to go down the road of what I've 4 seen in your depositions. I'm going to give you the 5 courtesy of letting you finish your question, give me the 6 courtesy of answering it, or Madam Court Reporter, so we 7 don't have a muddled record on the matter. 8 My best recollection is that the cases have 9 resolved favorably for whichever group I happen to have been 10 working with. As I pointed out, the set of facts in a 11 particular case, and ultimately if something did not resolve 12 prior to trial and went to trial, was something that the 13 trier of fact resolved one way or another, I don't control 14 that. 15 I'm happy to spend the balance of our couple of 16 hours talking to you about my memory on how cases turned 17 out, but, as I've already testified, I don't know how they 18 certainly did. I'm happy to talk to with the jury later 19 about that after you research and determine how each of 20 these turned out. 21 Q Okay. I'm just trying to make sure that I 22 understand your statements, and which of your statements are 23 supported by fact and which are supported by guesswork. 24 MS. HOOK: I would like to take a break for 25 about five minutes. So, can we just take a Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 20 of 42 Page 47 1 break? 2 MR. MITCHELL: Sure. Be back here, I got 3 1:11, why don't we round it up to 1:20? 4 MS. HOOK: Fine. 1:20 is good. 5 (Whereupon, there was a short recess.) 6 MS. HOOK: Okay. So, we're back on the 7 record now. 8 BY MS. HOOK: 9 Q Dr. Hough, I'm going to be screen sharing my 10 screen with excerpts from your book. If you would like to 11 actually take your hard copy book. I am going to be 12 referring to the E book page numbers, which I know are 13 different than the hard copy. So, you could look at it on 14 the screen, okay? 15 A And we'll see. I'm not -- I have not seen the E 16 book, so hopefully they are the same. I don't know. 17 Q Okay. All right. Let me just -- you know, I 18 had it up. Just give me a second. I had it up. There it 19 is. Okay. Give me a second. 20 MR. MITCHELL: Off the record. A quick 21 question. 22 (Whereupon, there was a discussion off the 23 record.) 24 MS. HOOK: Okay. I am going to share the 25 screen now. Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 21 of 42 Page 48 1 BY MS. HOOK: 2 Q Okay. So, I'm showing you a page from your 3 book, Dr. Hough, Criminal Investigations Today: The 4 Essentials. The subheading of diagramming. The first 5 sentence under diagramming states -- I'm sorry. 6 A Can you tell me what the page number does show 7 on there and I'll try to go to it? 8 Q Well, it is 78 on the E book, it doesn't show 9 the page numbers. This is -- 10 A Okay. 11 Q But it's under the subheading of diagramming. 12 A Do you know what chapter that is? I think I can 13 find it here quickly. I'm there. 14 Q Okay. So, in the first sentence, in the middle 15 of the first sentence, there was a clause that says, the 16 drawing of a scene can be a useful, if not a critical 17 component of documenting an investigation. Do you see that? 18 A I do. 19 Q I'm sorry? 20 A I do. 21 Q Okay. Can you, can you explain a little bit 22 more about the role of drawing a scene by an investigator? 23 A Certainly. And we'll back out just a little 24 ways to point out this is a textbook written for an 25 undergraduate audience of college and university students to Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 22 of 42 Page 49 1 overall understand the process of criminal investigation and 2 which is also why it's referred to as an essentials book, 3 even though it's nearly 400 pages long. 4 Diagramming for certain crimes or certain 5 subsets of certain types of crimes may be useful in 6 explaining to any number of people, not the least of which 7 at some point could be potentially a jury in a criminal case 8 typically, as this implies, about relevant relationships 9 between items of evidence and people. And so, it just 10 varies with, again, the universe of limitless permutations 11 of what crime might be investigated and whether there is 12 some need to have diagramming or other supportive types of 13 materials or props that might go along to help. 14 Q In what circumstances would the drawing of a 15 scene be helpful for an investigator, in what types of cases 16 can it be helpful or even critical? 17 A Sure. And, again, forgive the narrative style 18 of a professor and a trainer, and that's why what I just 19 said tried to hit at the point that there are virtually 20 unlimited versions of most types of crimes. 21 So, I've been involved in a couple of airplane 22 crashes which were not per se crimes, but they are termed as 23 crime scenes where you have thousands of items that need to 24 be related back to eventually a whole. Certainly, there are 25 shooting investigations where even if some person tragically Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 23 of 42 Page 50 1 falls dead in one spot, you may want to relate the various 2 items in the scene, whether it's in a room, in a building, 3 in a field, so, again, this can be explained later to others 4 or later in a process. You may even have something as 5 perhaps viewed as simple as a theft case, but perhaps the 6 individual fled in some particular direction before being 7 either lost or captured, and that may entail other crimes 8 that came as a result of that. 9 So, once again, being able to perhaps use that 10 kind of visual aid to explain something that is complex or 11 there may be some misunderstanding about an item of evidence 12 in relation to did somebody drop the item of evidence, is it 13 likely they had the item of evidence, those would be just a 14 handful of examples of, quite literally, any state's book or 15 books of criminal statutes, and trying from now until the 16 end of our lives to explain when and when it might not be 17 helpful to a jury or to a prosecutor that they not 18 understand, for instance, where someone was in relation to 19 some other thing, or where objects were in relation to one 20 another. 21 Q So, building on that, if you have an 22 investigator who has two witnesses, who described the crime 23 scene in different ways, positioning of furniture, 24 positioning of people, is that one of the cases where a 25 drawing of a crime scene would be important for the Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 24 of 42 Page 51 1 investigator to try and determine what really happened? 2 A Well, again, that certainly leads to a great big 3 it depends. The terminology of witness is one used within 4 not only criminal justice, but in medicine, reporters, et 5 cetera, in terms of what's a witness. A witness is someone 6 who has some information. We're not -- we're either talking 7 or not talking about an eyewitness. If we have two people 8 with some issue of contention over who was closest to the 9 gun that was used to shoot somebody or some weapon, what was 10 someone's vantage point, was it dark, was it light, were 11 they distracted by something else, and you're going to an 12 issue of those kinds of observation memory issues, as 13 opposed to, again, the universe of anything else, it could 14 be important, and that absolutely varies by each individual 15 reported incident and what is alleged to have occurred in 16 that incident or why it is that we're interested in whatever 17 comes next, court, prosecutor, defense attorney, jury, et 18 cetera. 19 Q Could a drawing be used by an investigator to 20 test the credibility of somebody's statement? 21 A Once again, throwing out a huge caveat of it 22 really depends. It would matter of what exactly is the 23 issue. Is there some probative value to showing that you 24 and I were standing on a street corner this morning and I 25 don't remember if I was closer to the curb than you were, no Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 25 of 42 Page 52 1 one cares, it doesn't matter. We might get into quite a 2 debate over which of us was standing closest to the curb, 3 and maybe, if we observed an accident, who was looking in 4 what direction, maybe that would matter. And, again, that's 5 just the most mundane of examples. 6 So, without specifics of, would I assess in my 7 professional opinion, based on my experience, and research, 8 and ongoing training, that an issue is relevant or could be 9 of, as you say, two witnesses stating who was in what 10 position, it really would depend. 11 Q If a witness provides a statement that -- 12 withdrawn. 13 In testing the credibility of a witness 14 statement, would you use a drawing to determine whether the 15 statement of the witness is physically possible, given the 16 layout of the crime scene? 17 A Once again, it varies with the case, and every 18 conceivable set of facts that can alter that and what it 19 was. If there is four counters length between you and a 20 cash register and somebody said you reached over and took 21 money out of the cash register, and we don't have a video or 22 an independent eyewitness, et cetera, et cetera, maybe. 23 So, again, this is so dependent and independent 24 of the thought that there is one method of conducting either 25 an investigation or the use of something, such as, in this Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 26 of 42 Page 53 1 example, diagramming. It is absolutely not that simple. 2 So, to bring it to the instant case, I found no 3 issue with some idea of, hey, I wonder whether there was a 4 diagram in this case, I saw no applicability. 5 Q Yeah, well, we will get to your report later. 6 A Sure. 7 Q But would it be probative to have a diagram of 8 the crime scene if that diagram were to establish that a 9 witness's statement was not possible? 10 A It could be. And without going for a legal 11 conclusion, and what those circumstances were, we'll 12 certainly go with it could be. 13 Q Okay. So, the next sentence on that page says, 14 the crime scene sketch has value by telling quite a bit 15 about a scene without the embellishment of words that may 16 unintentionally misdirect or place too much emphasis on one 17 item or another. So, in light of what we were just 18 discussing, how does this concept apply to the hypothetical 19 we were just discussing? 20 A It would not. If I turned the hypothetical into 21 talking about this case I was asked to look at, so that 22 wouldn't, you know, that wouldn't be of help, as far as that 23 goes. 24 The general concept for the college students to 25 grasp in this part of the book was the fact that, again, if Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 27 of 42 Page 54 1 you see a body, or a gun, or some item, or a car, and how 2 far it is or isn't from some other item, as I testified to, 3 an object, it may have some, it may have some value. It's 4 certainly going to depend on what the information we have on 5 a particular event was. 6 Q So, in this statement, a crime scene sketch has 7 value because it can tell something about a scene without 8 the embellishment of words. Are you conveying here that a 9 sketch can test the veracity of the words of a witness? 10 A Well, I appreciate that that's, I think, the 11 fourth way that you've asked that same question, and I 12 didn't say anything in any of my three replies previous 13 about testing the veracity other than it could, depending on 14 what a particular set of circumstances were, what a 15 particular set of narratives or perspectives were, and 16 whether that had anything to do with what the alleged 17 criminal act might have been or if, as in the example I gave 18 of perhaps a theft and someone ran, and other crimes 19 occurred as they were running from the scene of somewhere, 20 and you may actually need to try to determine sequence or 21 location for other items of evidence, things of that nature. 22 Q Okay. I'm moving on to the subsection that says 23 report writing and notetaking. And let me move this so we 24 can see. 25 Okay. In the first -- let me just make sure Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 28 of 42 Page 55 1 that I got -- okay. All right. Forgive me, this is a 2 little bit different than -- it changes each time. 3 All right. So, if you can all see the screen, 4 on the left-hand side, the first full paragraph begins with 5 officers also document all the information they take in 6 about evidence, suspects, and other persons involved in a 7 crime. You see that? 8 A I do. 9 Q Okay. And is that part of -- is that from your 10 book? 11 A That is. 12 Q Okay. Can you explain the importance of 13 documenting all the information? 14 A Sure. The point here, once again, for these 15 undergraduate students in a university program is that, and 16 I'll use the analogy the medical students, again, is that 17 the fact that for the things that you become aware of, know 18 about, it is often important to document things that may or 19 may not later be yjenkins@example.com. So, you may have a volume 20 of information that gets eventually used, or a lot of it 21 eventually for a variety of reasons may not get used, 22 documentation overall, and if you go back to the beginning 23 of this actual section, it's addressing initially patrol 24 officers. And in a case that typically would be reported in 25 progress or right after something happened, unlike the Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 29 of 42 Page 56 1 instant case that we're dealing with today, but also crime 2 scene technicians, forensic technicians, et cetera, 3 detectives, any number of people who may become involved. 4 It is not meant to imply that any human or group of humans 5 in an organization take in all information and knowledge and 6 then try to figure out later does it, does it mean 7 something. It is a reminder to students, and certainly a 8 reminder to officers and trainees as well, is that the 9 documentation is important. 10 Q Okay. I appreciate that this book was written 11 for undergraduate students, but it is based on your 40 years 12 of in-depth knowledge, education, and experience as an 13 investigator, is it not? 14 A Safe to say. 15 Q Okay. So, these are your opinions that you are 16 sharing with the undergraduate students, is that correct? 17 A Insufficient as an explanation because this is 18 an academic textbook that had 20 reviewers, if you go back 19 to the beginning of the book, experts from across the field, 20 probably seven editors from the rather large publishing 21 house of Sage doing this. This is academic peer reviewed 22 work. This isn't Dr. Richard Hough's opinion on how 23 criminal investigations should be conducted. This is 24 certainly, you know, enhanced and conveyed through my 40 25 plus years of experience, but, no, it's not just my opinion, Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 30 of 42 Page 57 1 no. 2 Q Who else is credited as an author of this book 3 besides you? 4 A I understand if you are not familiar with 5 publishing or peer review, but no one else is credited as 6 author of the book. 7 Q Okay. I actually was in the publishing business 8 for 15 years, so I do understand publishing. Thank you. 9 A I know. 10 Q But this is written, your byline is on this 11 book, correct? 12 A Correct. 13 Q Okay. So, you are listed as the author, and are 14 you saying that the opinions in this book or the statements 15 in this book are not necessarily your opinions or 16 statements? 17 A Well, that's certainly true because as -- you 18 just flipped to one there, you will see something about CSI 19 Effect, Smith, Perry and Stinson, 2007. 20 If, again, I don't know what area of publishing 21 you were in, but in the academic world of a textbook, we 22 don't get to just say our opinion. So, yeah, I would reject 23 your assertion that or get me to sign on to it's all just 24 me. Perhaps if we -- that's not how it works. 25 Q In the publishing world that I was in, to the Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 31 of 42 Page 58 1 extent that you are reciting the opinion or the research of 2 someone other than yourself, there needs to be a citation to 3 that. And if there is no citation, then it is understood 4 that it is based on your own research and your own 5 knowledge. Is my experience in publishing different than 6 yours? 7 A It certainly is. That's not accurate in 8 academe. 9 Q Okay. So, as we go through this, please tell me 10 where you disagree with the words that are in your book? 11 MR. MITCHELL: Objection. 12 Liz, if you are going to be using -- you 13 are turning this into an exhibit. If you are 14 going to use it as an exhibit, I request that 15 you provide a copy of this book at the 16 conclusion of this deposition so we have it for 17 the record. Thank you. 18 MS. HOOK: Thank you. 19 BY MS. HOOK: 20 Q So, Dr. Hough, just let me know when we get to 21 something that you don't agree with, even though it's in the 22 book. 23 MR. MITCHELL: Will you be providing a 24 copy? 25 MS. HOOK: No. Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 32 of 42 Page 59 1 BY MS. HOOK: 2 Q Let's move on. 3 MS. HOOK: We can discuss it offline. 4 Please. 5 MR. MITCHELL: All right. Let's take a 6 break. 7 MS. HOOK: Thank you. No, I'm not ready 8 for a break right now. 9 MR. MITCHELL: I'm calling a break. 10 MS. HOOK: All right. We will stop sharing 11 here and take a break. Thank you. 12 (Whereupon, there was a short recess.) 13 MR. MITCHELL: Dr. Hough stepped out for a 14 moment, I think, to go use the restroom. 15 But, Liz, we'll be marking this as an 16 exhibit. 17 MS. HOOK: Okay. You could do -- 18 MR. MITCHELL: Please keep track of all the 19 pages that you are using. 20 MS. HOOK: Okay. You will have the 21 transcript so you will have it. 22 MR. MITCHELL: I understand, Liz. 23 THE WITNESS: I apologize. I'm back. 24 BY MS. HOOK: 25 Q Okay. So, let's go back to the screen sharing, Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 33 of 42 Page 60 1 okay? 2 MR. MITCHELL: Okay. And for the record, 3 the defendants are marking this as an exhibit, 4 all the book. 5 MS. HOOK: Okay. 6 BY MS. HOOK: 7 Q So, the second paragraph, second sentence, let's 8 see, I'm not sure what -- okay. Second -- in the second 9 column, the paragraph that begins the formal written report, 10 the second sentence says, an officer or investigator states 11 known facts and not opinions or suppositions. Is it 12 important for the information that an investigator gathers 13 to be objective facts and -- leave it there. To be 14 objective facts and not opinions? 15 A Well, again, this plucking that sentence out of 16 this 400 pages, we'll try to put that in some kind of 17 context to relate. 18 The gathering of information, which is what an 19 investigation clearly is all about, is a matter of taking in 20 and documenting what you -- what is presented to you. Known 21 facts is very often the province, as we know, perhaps some 22 of the hard sciences, unless we're all witness to an 23 observation. Determination of weight of what may or may not 24 be considered an actual fact, we know is left up to the 25 trier of fact. Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 34 of 42 Page 61 1 Q Uh-huh. 2 A So, trying to, again, take that one sentence, 3 I'm trying to get back to, I apologize, about -- and I did. 4 Q I don't know if you can see my -- 5 A But an officer or investigator states known 6 facts and not opinions or suppositions. So, standing alone, 7 which that sentence doesn't, but if we take it somewhat 8 alone, yes, much like in the social sciences with students, 9 we tell them, don't just plug in an opinion. It's my 10 opinion that the dog chased the cat. Say that I watched as 11 the dog ran after the cat. So, to that extent, don't 12 include an opinion. 13 Q Okay. The third sentence -- well, there's the 14 contents. If a victim, witness, or informant makes a 15 statement that is not verified by the officer, the statement 16 should be noted as such. Is it important for information 17 that is provided to be put in the proper context? 18 A Well, I'm not certain that those two follow one 19 another. 20 Q Okay. 21 A Context -- 22 Q Tell me how they don't? 23 A I'm sorry? 24 Q Tell me how they don't follow? Tell me what you 25 were intending to convey in that sentence? Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 35 of 42 Page 62 1 A That for the information that you gather, and 2 everyone else who's involved in a particular matter gathers, 3 and whether, as in this case, the information is furnished 4 up to a prosecutor to contemplate in terms of a warrant 5 application, your question, which was not from within that 6 sentence about a context certainly would be important, I 7 would agree with that, the context is always important. 8 Q Okay. So, if someone's statement, a victim, an 9 informant, a witness is not verified, is it important for 10 that fact to be contained in the case incident report of the 11 investigation? 12 A The language of verified or not, most statements 13 that any of us give to one another are either not verifiable 14 or not verified in the initial stating of something. I 15 understand making much about verification and credibility, 16 and if that were possible, clearance rates for crimes would 17 be more than the 20 to 35 percent that they are, but the 18 actual fact is, as everyone on the jury will recognize and 19 know, is that you do not have the ability as an officer to 20 just independently verify, certify, or label a statement 21 necessarily as fact, which is also why the law enforcement 22 officers enter at times a physical charge, but it is the 23 prosecutor's office that renders the lawful and legal charge 24 in a matter such as the one we're dealing with here today. 25 Q Dr. Hough, you are the one -- I did not use the Case 3:18-cv-01322-KAD Document 308-52 Filed 09/29/20 Page 36 of 42 Page 63 1 term verified, you used the term verified in this sentence. 2 And all the sentence says that if a statement is not 3 verified, that statement, the statement should be noted as 4 such.
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