@Jinxy (Jinxy) posted a new topic, subject "Sometimes newer isn't better...". It read:

   My husband bought me a new Dell computer. I was like woo hoo! Go me! The reason he bought me a new computer was because my kids, as lovely as they are, download tons of crap and don't check anything for viruses. My 13 year old is the worst about it. Anywho…The new computer is mine now and frankly, I'm seriously considering giving it to the kids and taking back my old one. lol I don't get it…The new computer has more ram, a faster processor, and loads of other BETTER stuff on it, but it's slower than my old one? Anyway in case any of you may have noticed I haven't been around lately, it's because my wonderful little darlings screwed up my computer so bad last week that nothing worked…I couldn't use my scanner, couldn't use my printer, my drives weren't working…NOTHING! I could get into most of my programs, but as for the hardware other than the hard drive, nothing would work. I fixed it, but not without having to reformat the hard drive reinstall EVERYTHING all over again. I really don't get it though. I've had my virus program tell me there was a virus but never have I had it do that. Any ideas on what it could have been?

After which, @henrymop (henrymop) added

    > Sometimes newer isn't better…
    
    It usually means worse.
    
    Just because it says that it's a 2.2Ghz doesn't mean it'll go that fast. It's not a full processor. I'm not sure how it works, but my dad bought a computer, and he found out that it wasn't really a full processor. My computer could run as fast as that, but my computer was a really good CPU, RAM, and Mobo combo, too.
    
    You should always bee wary when you or someone you know goes out to buy something.

To which @Dittohead (Dittohead) replied

    If things get that screwed up, back up your files to another -clean computer that has running anti-virus- and completely reformat and reinstall.
    
    Then run the anti-virus on the clean computer and copy your files back on to your new computer. After doing that don't let the kids touch either one until you've taught them not to download, run or install applications without your approval. (include your husband in this…make sure he's not installing anything either)
    
    Then if they still are causing problems don't let them back on until they start to understand why installing or running random crap off the intarweb is a Bad Thing.

After which, @DwarvenFury (DwarvenFury) added

    Out of curiosity, what are the specs of your new computer vs. your old computer? I've been reading the techie stuff in my local newspaper, and the writer who reviews computers says that lots of computers come pre-loaded with **tons** of garbage programs (free trials, etc.) that can really slow down your computer. I saw this myself when helping my friends with their new HP computer. It was loaded with tons of junk that was completely useless, and ran in the background eating up CPU power and RAM. I'd recommend checking the task manager to see how many background programs you have running, how much of the CPU is being used by background programs, and how much free RAM you have. If you have a lot of your RAM and CPU power being used by background programs, try removing them, and if you can't remove them all, you could try a fresh install of your OS if your computer came with the CD. (I don't think your install disk will have all of the junkie free stuff that your computer most likely came loaded with.) Hope that helps.
    
    DwarvenFury

Then @Katsuro (Katsuro) said

    The slightly cheaper alternative to Dittoheads solution-use an extrenal drive. You could eather buy a drive and inclosure sepratly or buy a premade one, depending on eather the best deal or whatever works better. Anyways, I've had a similar issue, my computer would lock up a few minutes after login, so I had to go into safemode and scan, and even that didn't work. So I had to reformat. But as far as data protection-You could become the evil nazi mother and put tons of restrictions on your PC, or set up user accounts so that your kids can't install things, and have to get your permission first (plus, I think that you could lock a certan type of website from your kids). And if worst comes to worst, compleatly lock out your computer, bios and all. A kid, with access to google, could easly crack a password for windows by changeing to boot order from harddrive to disk and using a bootable linux and grabbing your SAM file, then proceeding to crack with SAMinside. Yes, this does work, I've done it (to my own computer, locked myself out of admin rights, and forgot the admin password). Anyways, heres what I suguest you do:  
    1.Tell your kids not to download or install anything without your permission. Including music.  
    2\. If that fails a number of times (old habits die hard), give them seprate user accounts that don't allow for installing.  
    3\. If that fails, and you are forced to lots of work to remove all the crap that they installed (from downloading stuff), restrict the accounts to no downloading(if possable)  
    4\. If they get past that, take away the use of the computer, and lock your computer. As stated before, make sure to lock EVERYTHING! Kids are clever, and might try to do as stated above.
    
    But even if you do follow thoes steps, I highly recomend doing as dittohead said, and backing up your data peroidicly. This little step will save you a lotof time tring to back all of the files you wanted and praying that you didn't miss anything. And also if you are using a free antivirus program, splurge and get norton or something.
    
    Katsuro

Then @Roja (Roja) said

    Sounds like you need to install and/or update your video card drivers & other drivers.

Then @Milky (Milky) said

    Roja:
    
    > Sounds like you need to install and/or update your video card drivers & other drivers.
    
    It may be something like that, but doesn't Dell take care of stuff like that?

To which @Robin (Robin) replied

    Milky:
    
    > It may be something like that, but doesn't Dell take care of stuff like that?
    
    You have to download them by your self. There come some drivers included in Windows but you have to update them from time to time.

Then @nico (nico) said

    Windows DOES feature multple user accounts and password protection. Either disallow anyone from using the computer or at least cut down their rights. That's how family works anyway

Then @kit89 (kit89) said

    On the kids machine stick Ubuntu on it with a copy of Gcompris. And all your problems will be solved with one of your machines.

Then @parityb (parityb) said

    a stable running windows system which is used by you and kids is not possible.  
    WinXP is not secure enough to work with users with limited access… there  
    are always ways to go around, or even to get the administrator password.
    
    if you have to use windows  
    I would install a blank system for everyone on a different partition  
    so everybody has its own system, completely away from yours.  
    and if its screwed up you can simply reinstall only the broken one  
    which is full of spyware or any other downloaded stuff  
    
    
    > Windows DOES feature multple user accounts and password protection
    
    no it doesnt, maybe Win Vista ??

After which, @kit89 (kit89) added

    Win Vista will have *unix like account system for better security and reliability.  
    WinXP was designed for stand alone, one person machine. It wasnt designed for families, it just cant handle it.

To which @nico (nico) replied

    parityb:
    
    > no it doesnt, maybe Win Vista ??
    
    I think it's possible to prevent the ‘average kid' from messing up a windows computer. That's what I meant. You can set up more than one user in windows, can't you?

So @PassiveSmoking (PassiveSmoking) replied

    OEM computers are never much good really. They put in a CPU with a high clock speed because less-than-well-informed customers think that translates into a fast computer, but it doesn't. The choice of motherboard, amount, type and timings of memory, graphics card, sound card and everything else can strangulate the performance of even the fastest processors, but most punters don't understand their importance and there aren't too many big sexy numbers associated with these subsystems that the marketing department can smear all over the packaging, so while the processors tend to be up to spec, they cut corners to get the systems out the door and sell them at really low prices. They are there to make a profit after all, and they can't do that if the boxes they shift cost more than the bits in them.
    
    Even then the margins are rather thin so the likes of Dell and other big OEMs resort to other means to make a bigger profit on each box. Companies come along and say “If you install our crappy software on every system you build we'll give you money” and of course the OEMs agree to this, and the marketing department can even make a big point of all the “free” software you're getting with the PC but most of this software is useless, or crippled until you pay for it, some of it is there just to pump advertising at you and the vadt majority of it installs background tasks that suck up your precious processor cycles and memory, forcing the operating system to rely more heavily on virtual memory (using a file on the hard drive to simulate more memory than the system physically has. It's a useful trick when dealing with huge amounts of data, but the hard drive is much slower than real memory) so that makes system that's poorly configured to start with even slower. It's called crapware and machines sold by people who load their systems down with it are known as craputers.
    
    All is not lost, if you can get hold of a copy of the operating system of your choice (I'm assuming some version of Windows) and drivers for the various bits and pieces of your system (You might try Dell's technical support site), you can reformat the hard drive and install a clean version of Windows. You should find that the system performs considerably better after that. Of course you can try uninstalling all the crapware that Dell shipped the machine with but crapware authors tend to make it difficult to remove their software.

Then @parityb (parityb) said

    > You can set up more than one user in windows, can't you?
    
    sure u can but if a user with limited access can start word or the internet explorer he can easily get administrative rights to change the admin pass or to change his own rights…  
    its so easy that in my opinion an average kid has no problems with it… its all described in the net with howtos and sample code and so on…
    
    for example:
    
      * open the file where windows stores the encryptet passwords
      * copy it
      * paste it here http://www.md5lookup.com/?category=main&page=search  
    so you have it, thats not too difficult
    
    
    
    okay I give you right, this is only a worst case scenario… but its possible, and if someone want to be sure he has to go another way…  
    But you can always be 99,999999% secure 
    
    @ passive smoking:  
    yes thats the other side of a “glossy paper low budget supermarket” advertisement
    
    but hey all here use blender an open source 3D software, why not use an open source operating system a well??  
    like ubuntu, fedora, gentoo, slakware… and much more   
    it works perfect

So @Milky (Milky) replied

    Robin:
    
    > You have to download them by your self. There come some drivers included in Windows but you have to update them from time to time.
    
    Hm okey, then Dell were even worse than I thought. The best way is to build your own computer, like I did.

Then @Zenitor (Zenitor) said

    if you contact dell they should send you a cd or dvd of winxp so you can start fresh without the bloatware, just say you need it for some other reason ie dual boot or backup safty.  
    For streamlining and speeding up xp have a look here,  
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050401044922/www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm  
    service pack 2  
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050401044922/www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm  
    there is an option to make the pages black for easier reading… why is blackviper.com not working??? oh well.

To which @lukus (lukus) replied

    PassiveSmoking:
    
    > OEM computers are never much good really. They put in a CPU with a high clock speed because less-than-well-informed customers think that translates into a fast computer, but it doesn't. The choice of motherboard, amount, type and timings of memory, graphics card, sound card and everything else can strangulate the performance of even the fastest processors, but most punters don't understand their importance and there aren't too many big sexy numbers associated with these subsystems that the marketing department can smear all over the packaging, so while the processors tend to be up to spec, they cut corners to get the systems out the door and sell them at really low prices. They are there to make a profit after all, and they can't do that if the boxes they shift cost more than the bits in them.
    
    The motherboard is a rather insignificant part. The more expensive “better” ones are actually no different in quality to the cheap ones, they just have more “features” that the average person never uses such as being able to play MP3s of the HDD direct from the motherboard and all this CPU Fan temp /noise management crap.
    
    Sound cards are also rather insignificant. Again, Its more of a feature thing; such all those differernt types of ports and so on… Infact It's likely to ADD more CPU strain or do nothing.
    
    Graphic cards: While im not 100% positive, they generally dont effect overall computer performance. When your playing that brand new high tech game that lags on you puny lil graphic card is more to do with the graphic card not being able to process it's part - the CPU /rest of the computer is coping fine. It appears as if the whole computers has slowed down because of course, the graphic card handles the visualy display. However… Dispite something lagging visually on screen, especially games, thats due to the graphic card bailing out - the CPU loaded it 10minutes ago fine.
    
    Therefore GPU is only an issue for programs based around Graphical processing i.e. Games, blender etc… whereas Openoffice is generally fine.
    
    Ram is also generally more imporatant that CPU.
    
    RAM > CPU > Graphics
    
    Alot of programs dont use that much cpu processing, but if it has to keep swaping data to the HDD which is alot slower than the RAM then you computer lags out. Its usaly the inital program load / big functions within the program (such as photoshops filters) which eat CPU processing. Using a painbush in photoshop or typing text… generally does not use 1% which is what most people use from their cpu.

Then @Jinxy (Jinxy) said

    Really the specs on my new computer aren't much different except for the fact where my old computer's processor is 1.6 ghz, the new is 3.2 ghz…i really think i should have shopped around a little more but as it was i wanted one for me and one for the kids and i was cheap. since i bought it, i've seen things about “dual core” and i've also learned what “integrated” video and sound means…it means it's basically crap for what i wanted lol. i had a problem getting things to show up in blender when i installed it on the new and found out the reason it wasn't working right is that the new computer has “integrated” video on it and doesn't have an actual video card, which means i'm going to wind up spending more money getting it to where i want it. i can use blender on it, but i have to disable all but the basic accelerations to get it to work…so far anyway…i haven't tried anything really difficult with blender other than just modeling…i haven't tried any animations or things such as that. the old computer really doesn't have a lot on it except XP pro and whatever programs i installed on it. i had to buy a copy of XP Pro because the hard drive died and i couldn't get a back up copy of the restore cds…hp puts their restore files on the hard drive…personally i think that's stupid…your hard drive crashes, you're screwed…anyway, i bought XP Professional, but Microsoft are jerks and you can only use it on one machine…which in my personal opinion, if I buy something I should be allowed to use it on whatever computer I want to…which is why I'm now considering using Linux on the old computer. As for the separate accounts thing, everyone in that uses the computer have their own accounts set up…but i was dumb and let everyone have admin access because it was annoying to have to keep installing crap for them all the time when i was busy with other things (my husband runs a business of his own and that keeps me a busy a lot). the new computer came with XP Pro preinstalled on it and with a lot of other bs that i really didn't want or need…along with a lot of demo chit…i've taken everything off it i didn't really care for but it's still considerably slower than the old one…they both have 512 ram…old computer has 2 hard drivers, one is 40 gig, the other is 60. the new has one hard drive, 160 gig…both have intel pent 4 processors but the old is 1.6 and the other is 3.2…i think i've already said that tho. lol

@BlendMe (BlendMe) replied

    you should upgrade the software.

After which, @ebow3d (ebow3d) added

    As far as hardware goes, you can add a new graphics card, preferebly a nVidia, it will sort out any graphics problems.  
    Then you can (should) add some more ram. I know from experience that 512mb ram with a cpu like yours is slow, even without using a 3d app. 1gb of ram will boost performance considerably.  
    With a 3.2ghz cpu, 1gb ram and a decent graphics card, you will have a good pc.

To which @schdeffan (schdeffan) replied

    lukus:
    
    > The motherboard is a rather insignificant part. The more expensive “better” ones are actually no different in quality to the cheap ones, they just have more “features” that the average person never uses such as being able to play MP3s of the HDD direct from the motherboard and all this CPU Fan temp /noise management crap.
    
    Well I don't agree. The motherboard is the central part of the computer that brings erverything together. How could that be not important.
    
    The Chipset on the MB is very significant and has major influence on the overall system performance. The overall design of the MB and usage of components can also have a big influence on system stability.
    
    And about that CPU fan/noise management “crap”: Well it depends on what you want. I like computers to be silent and then this “crap” is a bliss. My old Athlon64 just is about not hearable at all when only surfing on the web or writing emails as that “crap” lets the cpu run at only 1GHz and the CPU-fan is turned off. I was very thankful to spend another 20 Bucks on a better MB supporting Cool'n'Quiet back then.
    
    As for all this on-board stuff, Raid controllers, Audio, Video, LAN, etc. it again depends on what you need.
    
    Stephan

@PassiveSmoking (PassiveSmoking) replied

    lukus:
    
    > The motherboard is a rather insignificant part. The more expensive “better” ones are actually no different in quality to the cheap ones, they just have more “features” that the average person never uses such as being able to play MP3s of the HDD direct from the motherboard and all this CPU Fan temp /noise management crap.
    > 
    > Sound cards are also rather insignificant. Again, Its more of a feature thing; such all those differernt types of ports and so on… Infact It's likely to ADD more CPU strain or do nothing.
    > 
    > Graphic cards: While im not 100% positive, they generally dont effect overall computer performance. When your playing that brand new high tech game that lags on you puny lil graphic card is more to do with the graphic card not being able to process it's part - the CPU /rest of the computer is coping fine. It appears as if the whole computers has slowed down because of course, the graphic card handles the visualy display. However… Dispite something lagging visually on screen, especially games, thats due to the graphic card bailing out - the CPU loaded it 10minutes ago fine.
    > 
    > Therefore GPU is only an issue for programs based around Graphical processing i.e. Games, blender etc… whereas Openoffice is generally fine.
    > 
    > Ram is also generally more imporatant that CPU.
    > 
    > RAM > CPU > Graphics
    > 
    > Alot of programs dont use that much cpu processing, but if it has to keep swaping data to the HDD which is alot slower than the RAM then you computer lags out. Its usaly the inital program load / big functions within the program (such as photoshops filters) which eat CPU processing. Using a painbush in photoshop or typing text… generally does not use 1% which is what most people use from their cpu.
    
    In my experience the motherboard is far from insignificant. The difference between a good one and a cheap one can be the difference between a stable system and one that constantly falls over. If it came down to features alone I might agree (except with that bit about fan management being crap, with the heat modern computer parts put out it can again make the difference between stable or otherwise).
    
    A proper sound card has a DSP or similar hardware on board that offloads difficult audio computations from the CPU. Most systems with intergrated audio use a system called AC97, where the only actual sound hardware is a Digital/Analog converter. All the rest of the soundcard's functions are performed in software, meaning performance will take a significant hit when working with sound, watching DVDs, etc. Additionally, most AC97 solutions use very cheap DACs, resulting in inferior sound reproduction.
    
    For office machines that only ever have to do 2D work I'd agree that the graphics card doesn't matter, but when it comes to intergrated graphics, especially solutions from Intel, I'd have to say otherwise beacuse, a) they take away a chunk of your precious memory for their own use, and b) they're engineered to provide the bare minimum functionality. Even 2D applications can become sluggish and unresponsive under intergrated graphics solutions and heavy duty ones like Photoshop will be extremely uncomfortable. As for Blender, you'd probably have to just forget it, unless the developers introduce a “model by post” feature. Even the cheapest of dedicated graphics cards will run rings around Intel's intergrated graphics for both 2D and 3D, and will not waste RAM
    
    I'll agree with RAM, it's critical to modern systems because of how much RAM most software these days chews through. Of course the OEMs tend to use the cheapest RAM they can get their hands on, which has poor performance and can contribute to machine instability.
    
    The main reason these machines get graced with an expensive CPU is because Intel subsidises the cost in exchange for adding the Intel jingle to your commercials, and because all the big numbers associated with them sound sexy and can be used for marketing. However, with that CPU stuck in an inferior motherboard with cheap RAM, and running under the load of having to simulate the sound card that doesn't really exist, and having a portion of its memory stolen away be intergrated graphics that are slow and horrible, and with even more precious memory and CPU cycles being stolen by a myriad pre-installed programs that the user doesn't want, it wont feel anything like as fast as it ought to.

To which @ebow3d (ebow3d) replied

    Jinxy, what PassiveSmoking said above is by far the most accurate analysis. For a solution to your problem, see my post #43   
    ie: buy more ram and a graphics card.

Then @lukus (lukus) said

    schdeffan:
    
    > Well I don't agree. The motherboard is the central part of the computer that brings erverything together. How could that be not important.
    
    When you compare a cheap mobo to an expensive one, the core elements are usally the same since for both mobo's to run AMD XYZ processor they need those basic parts.
    
    Then the rest of the money is spent on more advanced features, built-in graphics, audio /5.1, digital /optical cable input, wake on lan, +1-308-500-9598 PCI slots, dual PCI-E slots / SLI, cool'n'quiet, MP3 playing, anti-virus /backup features, dual bios chips /backup XYZ memory slots /type and so on…
    
    Is there much difference to a 600w power supply and a 600w power supply? not really. Mine might have better quality fans /quieter, heatsink tubing and so on… but the core elements are the same even if they use differernt componets compleatly :600w Life span might last a bit longer, bit im sure it will get clogged up equally as fast and die from that alone.
    
    You could go on to compare the differernt types of chipset but thats similar to comparing AMD to Intel - they all have thier own up's and downs and from having cheap computer systems to high-end water-cooled beasts the more epensive ones in terms of a mobo have been no better… I might just miss out on alot of built in features and the ability to use sata drives, which i dont own anyway when i buy that £40 mobo instead of that £120 mobo.
    
    > If it came down to features alone I might agree (except with that bit about fan management being crap, with the heat modern computer parts put out it can again make the difference between stable or otherwise).  
    >  Fan management, as in slowing down the fan speed when there is less processing /heat in order to produce less noise has nothing to do with stablising the computer.
    
    Also, it only works for fan which plug into the mobo for its power, where more powerful fans get the power from the PSU. Basic CPU fans are not made to have variable speeds, and those that do are not usally made to plug into the mobo and thus cool'n'quite can damage it /be more dangerious since it is supposed to have a fixed voltage. Then you have fanless types of cooling and devices with thier own cool'n'quiet managment, so when im buying a mobo, I find it pretty pointless having to spend extra money for a feature that only 1% of people use.
    
    A sound card with DSP will save some cpu power, but then again, thats like me sayign if i hooked my calculator to my computer then when i use MS calculator it will use alot less cpu strain. Sounds effects are a special feature. how many people do much audio tasking other than playing a few mp3s? how how many of those's computer performance is crippled by it? Also, does that sound card decompress my Mp3's, for me, or is my CPU doing all that work too? The fact you have to install drivers often mean the computer is ahving to compute things too, inorder for the sound card to understand what is beign send to it
    
    You could buy alot of things that take away processing from the CPU. then all you end up saying is dual core cpu makes things faster, 2 dual cores, 3 dual cores all the way upto 8 dualcores… (or is it 4)
    
    The CPU is there to process. Be it graphics or audio. The main things that slow it down is LACK of ram because it then has to run at the speed of the harddisk when it runs out. So sure… A audio card does lower cpu stain but then again theres a million of things that can process things instead of the main cpu. we could list everything from calculators to big ass special physics processors… But an audio card doesnt really speed up a system… a CPU is actually made for processing and shouldnt really be including in any evalution, especially since it only counts if the computer have to do audio processing. And, in the case of web servers, or a scientific procesing computer is 0?
    
    So really its RAM / HDD /CPU /mobo (mobo if there is some really super advanced chipset or somthing like that)
    
    everything else, phsyic processors, graphics cards, audio card is specific to your needs.
    
    And then again, outputting audio, or graphics has little to do with all the extra feature they build in like openGL and digital sound effects so theres a second level. Then you usally need software to inable those features so that super advance graphic card is pointless in a game that doesnt actually ultilise openGL or even 3d geometry

So @Katsuro (Katsuro) replied

    Going to go back a few posts: You CAN set up mutipul users with passwords and diffrent restrictions easly. Just go to the Control Panel (CP) and click on User Accounts, then its self explanitory. If they make themselves admins, you can set them back or even deleat the account. A restricted use CANNOT access the SAM file (where passwords are stored), so they would need say, a diffrent OS, like a bootable Linux CD, then they could get the file ect ect. But if the bios is passworded, then they need to know the bios password to change to boot order. This is not some speculation, this is fact, as I have done this before. And as far as your OS and drivers-A new CD will set you back 8 USD, and a driver should have come with your machine, but you should be able to get one from Dell for just the cost of shipping. You can also download them from there website, support.dell.com. I think that that is more of what your orginal intent was. Sound will become choppy and things run slower when your CPU hits 100% usage, or so my friend says.
    
    Katsuro

So @Jinxy (Jinxy) replied

    I did the easiest and cheapest thing…I gave the kids the new computer and just restored and kept my old one and everyone's happy… As for the new one, it's got virus/spam/adware protection on it and they're accounts are limited…they can't install without admin access…hopefully they won't figure out how to change those settings like i've read on here that could be done.


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