@Dirty_Devil (Dirty Devil) posted a new topic, subject "Cable TV De-Scramblers". It read:

   Cable TV de-scramblers - those boxes that you buy for a couple hundred bucks that attach to your TV cable line and let you get all the premium channels for free. They've been around for as long as I can remember, and are fairly easy to get if you look in the right places (kinda' like drugs). My question is, how do the cable companies detect these? I've heard all kinds of stories, like sending jolts of current through the lines, or driving special trucks up and down the street with special “detectors”. Is there a way for them to tell if someone has one of these little gadgets?
      *[Ghost]: “I

Then @RoboDude (RoboDude) said

    Iv'e read somewhere that one cable company somehow flashed a message for a free T-shirt offer that only illegal boxes would show. Anyone who answered the offer would have to have had an illegal box.
      *[Ghost]: “I

@Therealbubba (Therealbubba) replied

    We've had a box for years, getting 4 pay-per-views and 12 premiums. We pay $30 for basic service. We have a signal amplifier that I am told acts as a buffer between me and the company. We also have a bullet protector.
    
    The same law that allows private ownership of telephone equipment protects the ownership of cable equipment. However, using it without the companies permission is illegal.
    
    I've been told that homeowners own the signal once it crosses their property line. As long as I don't hook up the cable myself, all they can do is shut me off. If they don't want the pay-per-view signal in my house, they shouldn't send it to me. I'm not sure how true that is, but no cable guy's getting in my house without a cop with a search warrent with him.
    
    I have several friends that have had them for years like us, and nobody has been busted yet.
    
    I heard a mail order company is selling DSS dishes with decoders that get all 160 channels for $700. Anyone out there heard about this or have one?
    
    Therealbubba
      *[Ghost]: “I

After which, @Louie (Louie) added

    _like sending jolts of current through the lines_
    
    Yeah, the cable company I had used to do that all the time. The company said that the jolts will knock out the illegal boxes, but instead all it did was knock everyone's cable out for short periods of time. I guess since everyone complained about the cable going out like that all the time like that, the company stopped doing it.
      *[Ghost]: “I

After which, @Louie (Louie) added

    One too many “like that”'s, sorry.
      *[Ghost]: “I

To which @RealityChuck (RealityChuck) replied

    I don't believe the cabal companies (I liked the typo so much I kept it) have any way to directly detect a cable box. The signal is one way from them to you; nothing goes back to them. I doubt the “free shirt” offer would work, either, since illegal and legal boxes operate exactly the same. Usually they find them by going into your house to fix something and discovering the box, or if someone rats you out.
      *[Ghost]: “I

@ubermensch (ubermensch) replied

    i don't know about the boxes, but according to one of my professors, who i believe, if you wire cable yerself, or add other outlets (they charge to turn on other outlets in other rooms when you get hooked up) and you don't use the exact wire they use, they can drive around with their kick-ass trucks and somehow check for leaking radiation from improper shielding in the wires. i can't say for sure if this is correct, but there's got to be someone around here that either works for, or knows someone who works for ‘the man'.
      *[Ghost]: “I

After which, @handy (handy) added

    There are a few ways, remember though, that they are many types of cable systems & many types of boxes.
    
      1. the cable comp has a code to activate your box, if you use a pirate box, the code won't activate it.
    
      2. This may sound stupid, but this is how they find out in my area, people put the pirate box in the window and the cable people can see it.
    
      3. A local cable comp was sued recently because they made up stories so they could come in the customers houses [oh, we need to check you signal] & found the pirate boxes that way. They made like 20,000 visits & found 900 pirate boxes, I think.
    
    
    
    
    These are how they do it in California, USA.
    
    If you have PAL & an ATI video card, you can descramble for free with FreeTv software. Don't have anything to do that with NTSC, though.
      *[Ghost]: “I

@Primal (Primal) replied

    ubermensch,
    
    yes, the cable guys can detect when RF (the term for Cable TV signal) is leaking due to poor connectors/unshielded lines etc… they have a piece of equipment that resembles a CB radio called a CLI that detects where signal leaks are. As far as the illegal box goes, a lot of how the cable company would determine whether or not you are using one depends on the current level of technology your cable supplier is using. I worked as a splicer for a year, so all i did was upgrade the equipment that provides people cable. Most cable companies (in my experience) are using a equipment that is bi-directional; in other words the cable comapny is indeed able to bounce a signal directly to your house (well, depending on just HOW sophisticated the equipment they have is, they can only get as specific as the POLE outside your house, which may feed as many as 8 different households). So there is some truth to the rumor. With the more sophisticated equipment, it is possible to detect not only if you are hooked up illegally, but shut off your cable without sending someone out, they do all of this via computer. But, as someone who worked in the cable industry, it's not something to worry about. Most cable comapnies are so incompetent(and are still raking in dough hand over fist) they don't have time to worry about whether or not one person has a black box.
    
    * * *
    
    Primal  
    “Life, by it's very nature, is self gratifying. If it also happens to be good or bad, that is purely coincidence.”
      *[Ghost]: “I

So @Primal (Primal) replied

    sorry for the couple typos, my spell-checker doesn't work.
      *[Ghost]: “I

After which, @Dandmb50 (Dandmb50) added

    I had the cable guy over once and of course disconnected my box and I noticed him while he was in the maitenance room and he had this little computer box of his own that he hooked into the cable line. I heard the thing working and I suspect they can check the cable line in the house and detect what things are connected to the cable.  
    But like another person said I don't they are worried about it since when they charge $79.95 for a boxing match I think their making so much money they can't be bothered.
    
    Something they do here in Toronto is somewhat like the t-shirt thing, is while your watching the PPV movie which you get for free they have many different scams where the cable company says call us after the money and we will send you a free pizza. Well they are not doing because they want to give away pizzas they do it to catch people using the pirate boxes. If someone is that dumb to call in they deserve to be caught.
    
    * * *
    
    Please feel free to email me  
    imiller@example.net  
    and visit my homepage. http://members.aol.com/dandmb50/1.html/
      *[Ghost]: “I

After which, @Mojo (Mojo) added

    Intersting note: On my old descrambler (god rest its soul) there was a sticker that posessing the cable descrambler box is not in itself illegal. However, if you plug it in you're breaking the law.
    
    I always thought it was one of this _wink wink nudge nudge_ disclaimers to skirt the law, like selling tobacco packets with bongs.
      *[Ghost]: “I

Then @JoeyBlades (JoeyBlades) said

    The cable companies can indeed detect that you have something other than the hardware they think you are supposed to have. They use a tool calle a Time Domain Reflectometer which sends a signal into your house through your cable wiring. All hardware will reflect some of this signal back to it's source. They can look at the signature of this reflection and see that it's not what they are expecting, if you've got unauthorized equipment. They can then ask to inspect your system or can terminate your service if you refuse.
    
    I had a friend that used to work for a cable company and he told me that he had this trick. When he detected a suspect system he would simply disconnect. When the subscriber called to complain he would come out, check that they had removed their bogus hardware, replace the descrambler box, and reconnect. He'd tell them that something had overloaded the system and had burned out the cable box. He'd explain that this usually only happens when people hook up incompatible equipment to the cable system. The next day he'd check again. If the subscriber had reinstalled the suspect hardware, he'd disconnect again. The next time the subscriber called he'd repeat. The subscriber eventually gets tired of being out of cable service for long periods of time and thinks his bogus descrambler is causing the problem, so just stops using it.
    
    Of course, more modern cable systems block or pass the premium channels at the junction box, so there's no way to pirate the signal without breaking in to the sealed junction boxes. For instance, our current cable system is like that. When we first got hooked up, they inadvertantly gave us a premium channel. No boxes or descramblers were required, the channel just tuned in. I guess they discovered their mistake a few weeks later because the channel just went to snow - not to the tale-tale unsynchronized zig-zags of a scrambled signal.
      *[Ghost]: “I

To which @handy (handy) replied

    'When he detected a suspect system he would  
    simply disconnect. '
    
    Doing that is illegal, too. Wouldnt be surprised if the cable comp got sued later over that.
      *[Ghost]: “I

@andros (andros) replied

    AIEEEE!!! Is there any hard evidence here? Or is it all just anecdotal? Any network/cable/electrical gurus?
    
    Citations! My kingdom for citations!
    
    -andros-
      *[Ghost]: “I

@Yarster (Yarster) replied

    Sorry, I don't have any citations for you, But I do have conjecture and hearsay. Those are _kinds_ of evidence. (great ‘Simpsons' quote from Lionel Hutz)
    
    As far as the electrical signal spikes go. I heard they used to do this in New York City and had to stop because of risk that the boxes would overload, burn-out, and cause a fire while the subscriber/ pirate was not home, thus leading to major liability problems for the cable company, supposedly not allowing them to do it any more.
    
    Like you all, I too have had a box for a number of years. The cable company out here upgraded once and moved all the PPV channels to a channel range to that was beyond what the old box would get. Simple solution was that I traded it back in to the pirate company and got a new one.
    
    I've heard the ‘free T-shirt' scam story before too, but am convinced it's an urban legand because all my friends have boxes and none of them have ever actually SEEN such an ad, though we've all heard the story. I've heard the way people get busted in being ratted out by a pissed off ex-girlfriend/ ex-wife/ ex-friend. And even then the bust consists of a nasty phone call from the cable company saying that they KNOW you have an illegal box and that you had better stop using it, at which point people get scared shitless and quit.
    
    As far as purchasing the boxes, it's my understanding you have to buy it from a different state than the one you live in. I used to live in Austin, TX, and the big descrambler company in town wouldn't sell me one when I showed up at their door telling me it was illegal to do so. The ads in the back of Popular Mechanics back this up because they always say ‘No Texas Sales' if the company is located in Texas.
      *[Ghost]: “I

Then @Yarster (Yarster) said

    One other note: On my box, the one premium channel I DON'T get is HBO (I do get HBO 2 however). I'm told it's because there is a physical filter of some kind that gets removed somewhere along the cable line when you subscribe to this.
    
    Only evidence I have though is that when my buddy lived in an apartment complex, he said the cable guy went into a ‘locked closet' on the outside of the building and did something to turn HBO on for different people. He uscrewed the hinges to this outward opening door, went in, flipped all the switches, and gave everyone free HBO (himself included) to both become a cable-Robin Hood, and throw suspicion off himself. A week later, supposedly each apartment had a nasty note on it saying if they caught the person who did that, they would prosecute big time. Of course, this guy is notoriously full of crap, so I'd like to know if anyone knows if this is true/ why HBO works differently from the other channels?
      *[Ghost]: “I

To which @Primal (Primal) replied

    Dirty Devil  
    the guys can drive around in their Kick-ass trucks (wanna see mine? http://www.surfshop.net/users/gunboy3/metruck.htm ), but they can't detect the illegal boxes merely by driving by. They can, however, detect signal leaks, not something to worry about.
    
    Therealbubba: Check the deed /lease to your home. Utility Companies are allowed on your property for the purpose of maintaing service (read as repair / upgrading / etc…) Depending on who it is, they are indeed allowed in your home. Such as cable installers. So if you deny them access, they deny you service. That simple. and no, you do not “own” the signal once it hits your property any more than you “own” the electricity that runs through the lines on your property. a silly notion, really.
    
    yarster: yes, the cable company encodes different premium channels via positive or negative reinforcement of the specific frequency. The filter you mentioned is placed in the cable line to either scramble or descrambe a specific channel. they are commonly known as “traps” because in essence that's what they do. the cable guy went into the closet (where the tap was, the piece of equipment that your cable line attaches to, to receive RF) and either added, or more likely removed, the filter necessary to give HBO. It's not just HBO incidentally, in my home town it's Cinemax that they encode that way. As for the T-shirt scam, it won't work. The t-shirt offer is bogus, for reasons that should be obvious.
    
    Dandmb50, I have one of those little “computer boxes” that you saw the cable guy attach to the line. All it basically is is a signal meter. It tests the amount of signal and interference that you are getting. If the signal level isn't high enough, your picture will look like shit and you won't be happy. On the other hand, if it's too high, it will in essence scramble itself ( a condition know as cross-modification, or cross-mod for short). He was most likely just checking to make sure that you had enough rf.
    
    JoeyBlades, I don't know where you heard about that Time Domain Reflector, but I am willing to bet that the same person who told you about that was just dying to sell you a bridge that overlooks some PRIME Arizona beachfront. Your friend in the cable company wasn't allowed to just disconnect peoples cable, as handy surmised. However, it is EXTREMELY easy to write off a cable outage on numerous different reasons.
    
    Andors, I worked in the cable industry for a year, my father for the past 4, my brother for the last 3, and of course I know numerous other people in the business. I worked for Communications Construction Group, the largest Cable Communications construction company in the nation. (to lend credence to the above)
    
    * * *
    
    Primal  
    “Life, by it's very nature, is self gratifying. If it also happens to be good or bad, that is purely coincidence.”
      *[Ghost]: “I

After which, @manhattan (manhattan) added

    Well, OK. While I was typing in my response, **Primal** beat me to the post with the facts. I can live with that. I can at least add that the _Anti-Theft Cable Task Force_ will have a web site in early December. If anybody wants the url, bring this thread to the top on about Dec. 10 and I'll post it.
    
    But you're still gonna get my diatribe.
    
    All you people with descramblers are **stealing**. That's right, every bit as much as if you went down to the bank and stole $40 at gunpoint each month. You are committing a crime, violating the social contract and debasing your own sense of morality for a few bucks a month. Not only are you stealing from the cable company, you are stealing from the programming suppliers (channels), the suppliers' suppliers (producers) and royalty recipients (writers and performers).
    
    The fact that your chances of getting caught are low does not make it less of a theft. The fact that the victims rarely bother to prosecute does not make it less of a theft. The fact that the product you are stealing has no physical existence does not make it less of a theft. The fact that the victims of your theft are for the most part well off does not make it less of a theft. Would you break into a cable company executive's home and steal a $40 bottle of wine? No? So stop stealing.
    
    * * *
    
    Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine
      *[Ghost]: “I

To which @ZenBeam (ZenBeam) replied

    A time domain reflectometer is a real device. All it would do is send a pulse down the line. At each device or connection, a small amount of the pulse would reflect back. By measuring the delay, and knowing the speed of propagation, they could tell how far along the cable path different discontinuities were.
    
    Something like a cable decoder box would reflect the different frequencies making up the pulse in a more complex manner that just a bad connection, so it's possible they could tell you had a decoder box. They probably couldn't be certain enough to sue or convict you, but they could send you a nasty note.
    
    * * *
    
    _It is too clear, and so it is hard to see._
      *[Ghost]: “I

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