@xeni (Xeni Jardin) posted a new topic, subject "Husband and wife terror team behind San Bernardino massacre had thousands of bullets". It read: [Read the post] *[feathery]: hairy @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) replied As mentioned in another thread, that round number isn't very high. I keep 500-1000 rounds of the 3 common calibers I shoot, and even more of the .22lr when I can find it. One practice match of USPSA will see me shoot up to 200 rounds, and I know people who practice for competition that shoot thousands of rounds per month. People who are hobbyist or compete buy in bulk when they can find a good deal, so they don't ever overpay. Many end up reloading, which brings the per-round cost down significantly. RE: The article didn't mention what kind of party? I have heard both baby shower and holiday part - though perhaps it was both, as we had a work party and threw a shower for a guy too. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @sargon added The >1600 unused rounds in the SUV, as well as all the goddamn pipe bombs, is somewhat less normal, yes? *[feathery]: hairy @Papasan (Papasan) replied They say “preparation is everything”. But on the other hand, maybe they should have worked out a better escape plan. Guess they didn't plan that far ahead… *[feathery]: hairy To which @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) replied Pipe bombs and using guns to shoot people is less normal and wrong. My point is for the layperson who has no clue about these things to offer perspective that the round count isn't that crazy. And I have been pulled over with like 4 ammo cans full of stuff and was fine. Got to transport stuff somehow. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon37332521 added While there is plenty to debate about guns, gun ownership, etc I do find the breathless coverage when crimes like this are committed rather annoying. “12 pipe bombs and tools for making more”. Well, of course they had tools, and the tools don't just vanish after they make the bombs. I bet a lot of us have the exact same tools too, just probably not the pipe bombs. *[feathery]: hairy To which @daneel (daneel) replied As I mentioned in the other thread, CNN's coverage is really pissing me off. More fool me for listening to it, I guess. There's enough awful stuff about this case that you don't have to resort to hyping things up and speculating randomly about who radicalized who, or thinking it's suspicious that a muslim has done the Hajj. *[feathery]: hairy Then @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) said tropo: > I bet a lot of us have the exact same tools too, just probably not the pipe bombs. Sometimes even the materials. Did some project, or maybe a home repair, involve plumbing? Perhaps air, maybe water, maybe gas? Then you virtually certainly got some spare pipe caps left, and maybe even some pipe itself and possibly even a tool for cutting thread to the pipe. And these things keep, can last in stock for decades. Suspicious much? *[feathery]: hairy Then @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) said Well when you have 24/7 news, with no new news, you start speculating. Repeating the same thing over and over only fills so much air time. *[feathery]: hairy @Boundegar (Boundegar) replied That's actually helpful, thanks. However, you must admit it's less normal to carry that much ammo _to the office you plan to shoot up._ *[feathery]: hairy Then @daneel (daneel) said Which is why I hate 24/7 news. CNN don't even have an agenda to push, just airtime to fill between adverts. *[feathery]: hairy Then @galaxies (galaxies) said a few years ago when the price of bullets was way high you couldn't find a right-wing person who did _not_ advocate good prepared americans having this much ammo in their home. just a funny point of fact i guess. now that i think about it, that was right after sandy hook too. sadly i do know of people IRL who drive around with a fuckton of ammo in their vehicle. gotta have ammo in the truck for the truck gun. scary shit. let them just kill me because i'll never carry one. i'm not afraid to be in the real world unarmed guess im old fashioned. edit: i bet it wouldn't be hard to find gun-fans who say keeping explosives in the is okay/normal, since many of them like to use exploding targets from ammonium nitrate!!! *[feathery]: hairy To which @robulus (robulus) replied It's pretty telling, particularly with recent articles here on BB about the difference between coverage of white Christian terrorism and Islamic terrorism, or what is characterised as such. The narrative has turned very quickly from wistful gazing into the distance pondering man's inhumanity to man and our helplessness to do anything about it without sacrificing our God given right to bear arms, to terror sleeper cells hiding in our midst ready to open fire and blow up our parties when we least expect it, panic, panic, PANIC… *[feathery]: hairy Then @stinkinbadgers (stinkinbadgers) said Ha, saw this headline on another news site and wondered if BB was going to bite the meaningless fright bait. I'm almost considering if I should be disappointed. *[feathery]: hairy @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) replied Yes, context is key to many things. The problem is the presence of something doesn't necessarily mean anything. You could be taking your kitchen knife to your moms house to help make dinner, or to your ex-gf's house to kill her. Someone listening to gangster rap in their car when pulled over doesn't mean they are actually in a gang or deal drugs. Jefferson owned a Koran, doesn't make him a Jihadist. A glass pipe doesn't mean that person smokes weed. Encryption software and a camera doesn't mean one makes and distributes child porn. daneel: > Which is why I hate 24/7 news. CNN don't even have an agenda to push, just airtime to fill between adverts. IMHO - it's worthless, unless you can maybe watch something important live. I don't watch TV news, but if I did I'd rather watch a well thought out 1/2 hour - hour recap of the day, edited and concise. I used to watch the nightly news. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon75430791 said I think he covered that bit already. Did you skip the first line of his post? *[feathery]: hairy @Boundegar (Boundegar) replied At this point I feel I must point out that you can't take your guns to your moms house to help make dinner. But your point is valid. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon27822705 said Bad time to be a “legitimate” Muslim gun enthusiast. *[feathery]: hairy Then @cameronh1403 (Cameron Huff) said Well you know the companies that control the NRA are rubbing their hands with glee. They are so excited about all the guns they can sell now. *[feathery]: hairy @robulus (robulus) replied Cameronh1403 make robulus sad *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon27822705 added Yes yes yes. The news is rarely news. It's speculating about what might have happened, and speculation about what could happen. Very little time is devoted to facts, and even when it is relaying facts 99% of the time they are facts they've already stated. *[feathery]: hairy @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) replied galaxies: > i bet it wouldn't be hard to find gun-fans who say keeping explosives in the is okay/normal, since many of them like to use exploding targets from ammonium nitrate!!! Tannerite looks to me like fun and pretty safe to store and transport, until mixed. Ammonium nitrate was not even regarded as an explosive until certain industrial accidents. On its own it is pretty difficult to get to sing, at least if not on a industrial-sized pile or in a full ship cargo hold. You probably don't want to know what students of chemistry can do (and often do). It's not about the substance, it's about the mode of its deployment, at least as long as the deployed amount is not unreasonably high. *[feathery]: hairy Then @redesigned (redesigned) said shaddack: > You probably don't want to know what students of chemistry can do (and often do). They can blow your MIND!!! Mind-Blown.jpg757×400 72.5 KB *[feathery]: hairy To which @some_guy (I wish I'd chosen a better name.) replied Well I'm about to get upset From watchin' my TV Been checkin' out the news Until my eyeballs fail to see I mean to say that every day Is just another rotten mess And when it's gonna change, my friend Is anybody's guess … You know I watched that rotten box Until my head begin to hurt From checkin' out the way The newsman say they get the dirt Before the guys on channel so-and-so And further they assert That any show they'll interrupt To bring you news if it comes up They say that if the place blows up They will be the first to tell, Because the boys they got downtown Are workin' hard and doin' swell, And if anybody gets the news Before it hits the street, They say that no one blabs it faster Their coverage can't be beat And if another woman driver Gets machine-gunned from her seat They'll send some joker with a brownie And you'll see it all complete… –Frank Zappa *[feathery]: hairy After which, @cameronh1403 (Cameron Huff) added sorry man, had to point that out. Here have a pic to cheer up with kitten-with-puppy.jpg1024×768 173 KB *[feathery]: hairy So @burpchick (Jaime Natoli) replied This may not be the time/place to ask, but do folks have suggestions for a reliable, online news source that isn't sensationalistic? Since this is happening in my region of the country, my local NPR station has been great, and I listen to it when traveling to/from work, but I'm curious to know about good alternatives to CNN.com that I can check every so often during the ssmith@example.net. In addition to accurate, unbiased coverage, it would also be nice if I didn't see a slew of headlines about people/places/events that belong on tabloids and not “real” news. I find I resort to CNN.com (which I hate) because I just don't know where else to go. (“Look at me! Selfies of the year” – you've gotta be f'ing kidding me.) *[feathery]: hairy So @RatMan (RatMan) replied burpchick: > This may not be the time/place to ask, but do folks have suggestions for a reliable, online news source that isn't sensationalistic? Google News It's not a news source per se, but a news source aggregator, broken into categories. It does a good job of avoiding the more sensationalist media. If you use it from a logged-in Google account it can be heavily customized. *[feathery]: hairy To which @SteampunkBanana (Jeff) replied The BBC is usually a good place to start. It's odd I have to look overseas for decent national news coverage… *[feathery]: hairy After which, @Groundman (Ben Bowman) added I have been fairly happy lately with Reuters, although I will also admit that part of that is simply the fact that the mobile site isn't so clogged with shite that it crashes my nearly-obsolete iDevices. *[feathery]: hairy @petr (Petr Kratoska) replied Recently one Texas Lawmaker commenting on the Syrian refugees issue was openly worried about the states lax gun laws. Because, you know, mass shootings might become a routine occurrence. *[feathery]: hairy So @Knackfloh (WolfgangSchlte1) replied there should be adapters so you can shoot mashers and other usefull kitchen tools. *[feathery]: hairy @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) replied Knackfloh: > there should be adapters so you can shoot mashers and other usefull kitchen tools. Not so difficult. I'd take the tried-and-true rifle grenades, start with their design, and modify from there according to the specifics of the desired task. *[feathery]: hairy So @peregrinus_bis (Peregrinus Phoenix) replied Party trick - open a champagne bottle! BANG! Oops - sorry about the dog. *[feathery]: hairy So @JeanBaptiste (John Doe) replied I'm rather fond of http://www.oann.com/ *[feathery]: hairy @fiddlingfrog (Harold) replied shaddack: > On its own it is pretty difficult to get to **sing** Is this some kind of technical explosive term, or just a wonderful typo? *[feathery]: hairy Then @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) said A rather expressive slangish term. We had all kinds of such slang at my _alma mater_ , you could hear sentences like “nitrogen triiodide is a jolly fellow, you look at it funny and it laughs right into your face”. Singing is an appropriate term here. Even if it is just one note, short and a bit loud. *[feathery]: hairy So @Max_Blancke (Max Blancke) replied I kind of think that the non shooters are alarmed at the numbers just because they have no frame of reference. Anyone who shoots regularly probably has hundreds or thousands of rounds. not because we are expecting a zombie apocalypse, but because it is cheaper to buy in bulk, and because nobody wants to find a Cabelas every time you go to the range. Some people seem to think that having more ammo somehow makes a person more dangerous, but the things are not really related. It is my understanding that the two of them fired off 75 rounds at the party. Obviously, that is 75 too many, but the amount of ammo they owned would not be excessive if they were at the range a lot. *[feathery]: hairy To which @anon26940528 replied shaddack: > Did some project, or maybe a home repair, involve plumbing? Perhaps air, maybe water, maybe gas? Then you virtually certainly got some spare pipe caps left, and maybe even some pipe itself and possibly even a tool for cutting thread to the pipe. And these things keep, can last in stock for decades. Suspicious much? I once read about a prisoner killing himself in his cell by placing an enclosed pipe full of water on a radiator in his cell. Don't know where that was or how he had access to those materials in prison, but explosive devices are easy with very rudimentary knowledge and materials. Fortunately, pipe bombs aren't exactly fun harmless fireworks, but their destructive potential is limited by weight and the compositions that can be created by amateurs. shaddack: > You probably don't want to know what students of chemistry can do (and often do). Having firebricks on hand will make you try things you shouldn't indoors. *[feathery]: hairy Then @Missy_Pants (Missy_Pants) said Oh Texas. Salon – 17 Nov 15 ### Texas lawmaker in NRA's pocket argues his state can't accept Syrian refugees... Rep. Tony Dale believes easy access to firearms more important than lives of refugees escaping murderous regimes VIDEO Sorry, wrong reply! *[feathery]: hairy After which, @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) added ActionAbe: > I once read about a prisoner killing himself in his cell by placing an enclosed pipe full of water on a radiator in his cell. While thermal expansion of water can have immense force, I don't think it'd be enough for exploding the vessel. (See why hydrostatic testing of high pressure systems is safer than testing with pressurized gas.) Unless it also boiled into steam once the vessel was dehermetized. Which with the common radiator temperature I find rather implausible. (Or it was a rather freak accident involving a momentary intense water jet.) *[feathery]: hairy So @Max_Blancke (Max Blancke) replied You have asked the big question. I have not found a US source that is not agenda driven. I speak a couple of languages, so I watch the Danish and German news as well. It is depressing to have to read five or six different perspectives on each story to try to distill the truth. On the recent shooting, I watched the live images from different US networks, but listened to a feed of the local police scanner. You have to learn some codes, and there is some “fog of war”, but much more detail than the TV. *[feathery]: hairy So @Mindysan33 (Ráitseach - Wanton woman. Chatterbox. Prattling Person.) replied Bad time to be a Muslim in America? *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon26940528 added shaddack: > Which with the common radiator temperature I find rather implausible. (Or it was a rather freak accident involving a momentary intense water jet.) I mis-remembered. I had to look it up, but it seems like it was a nitramide composition. Different sources say different things, but apparently he scraped the red ink off playing cards. My first thought was some kind of azo dye, but this doesn't sound right. Too stable to break down in neutral water. Some sources say the ink used in playing cards was made of nitrocellulose derivatives, but I'd imagine adding water would damp the composition rather than lead to hydrolysis to nitramide. I can't be sure what it was, but I find myself considering possible mechanisms. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @burpchick (Jaime Natoli) added Thanks everyone! *[feathery]: hairy To which @roomwithaview (roomwithaview) replied burpchick: > a reliable, online news source that isn't sensationalistic I find myself on alJazeera's American edition more often than not. More info than the beeb (BBC), which has slid dreadfully over the years, and often covers things the US news won't touch with a ten foot pole, (or if they do it's a month later). *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon34697667 said *[feathery]: hairy To which @newliminted (newliminted) replied Traditionally we go for unicorns here. *[feathery]: hairy @anon34812172 replied Mister44: > Many end up reloading, which brings the per-round cost down significantly. Only for certain situations. There is no way you can save money by reloading 9mm or .22, for instance, unless you don't value your time and you have nothing to do but sit around making bullets. But for bigger stuff or specialty stuff, or if you want to load a certain charge or type of powder, bullet, brass, etc., or you have a special gun that needs a special something, then reloading is for you. My friend was a sharpshooter, only shot .22. So, he reloaded .22 because he wanted it “just so.” Fair enough. I don't reload because I don't shoot that much. I'll just buy what I need from Gander Mtn or WalMart when I need it. Back to the OP: a “large amount of ammo” would be having more than about 5,000 rounds of any one kind on hand. 5,000 total of lots of different kinds is pretty common. But 5,000 of one calibre means that you bought 5 cases of 1000 and spent hundreds for each group of 1000. Cheap lots of 1000 9mm with small charges run about $200. So 5000 of those means you dropped $1k for it, or likely more. So you spent upwards of $1000 on one kind of bullet that you cannot possibly shoot off very quickly. Shooting more than a few hundred in a day is a lot of wear and tear on your body. To shoot off 5000 is many days of shooting. If you are Rambo and you shoot 500 rounds every day, you'll go through your stockpile in 10 days. Next to nobody does this. To shoot like that every day would be a $3000 to $4000 per month habit. You'd have to be really fuckin rich to shoot that much AND have shoulders and arms made of fucking _IRON_. Most avid shooters might shoot 2 or 3 times a week, and they aren't firing 500 rounds. Probably one or two hundred. The point is, having up to about 5,000 rounds on hand of different types is not _a lot_ of ammo. That's a mischaracterization. Having 5,000 of one single type is approaching excessive. And having anywhere near 10,000 is excessive if it's all for just one person's personal bullet collection. You don't want to keep ammo just sitting around. Moisture in the air degrades it over time, especially if you handle it cuz you're a gun fondler and you like to stroke your bullets, or you keep it in the garage or someplace that can get ■■■■■. Bullets may still fire, but it's not considered best practice to just keep them laying around for years. They should be in constant turnover. Also any more than about 500 to 1000 in your car, in transit to the shooting range, is too much. That's excessive. Nobody needs to be carting around thousands of rounds. OK, enough of the fucking gun talk. We need more gun laws and better methods to keep guns out of the hands of psychos and murderers. I'd be perfectly ok with it, however we want to do it. *[feathery]: hairy So @tachin1 (tachin1) replied On the amount of ammo they owned, point taken, a very useful thing to point out indeed. On how much ammo they had on hand when they went on their killing spree… 1600 + bullets. That's relevant. *[feathery]: hairy So @tachin1 (tachin1) replied That is a unicorn in spirit to me. *[feathery]: hairy @newliminted (newliminted) replied Proof that they failed. As long as we don't overreact, that is. *[feathery]: hairy Then @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) said awjt: > Only for certain situations. There is no way you can save money by reloading 9mm or .22, for instance, unless you don't value your time and you have nothing to do but sit around making bullets. Mmm I know several people who reload 9mm and make it for about 60-50% less than factory ammo, depending on components. And they can tweak the powder load to be a bit lighter for competition. Yes it would take for ever using the small hand loaders, but they have progressive machines that allow one to reload in larger batches quickly. By .22 do you mean .22lr or like .223 Remington? From what I understand reloading .22lr is a… process, because you have to make this primer paste for the rimfire and it is a big mess usually. I have never met someone who has done it, but I have seen kits for it. .223 rem, lots of people reload and there are plethora of different kinds of loads from target to hunting and a ton of style and weights of bullets. *[feathery]: hairy So @anon34812172 replied My friend (a former co-worker) never showed me his rig. It was .22lr, not .223 or anything like that. As for reloading 9mm, the margin is so small that it's mostly not worth it unless you are doing something different, such as special bullets or larger loads or something like that. Reloading saves, for sure, but more savings are to be had on the big bores not on the smaller cheap stuff that's mass-produced. Of course, there are nutters who'll reload everything because they feel they need to. Whatever, go ahead. I have a lot of other stuff to do with my time. *[feathery]: hairy Then @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) said You're right larger rifle rounds have an even greater cost savings (especially when you factor in things like “reduced recoil” factory loads are $5 more a box, when they actually have less components.) Especially the exotic stuff. But still, 100 rnds of 9mm s $20 on a good day for factory. I now people who can make it for $8-10 bucks. Not bad savings in my book. The really, really good guys I shoot with in USPSA go through a ton of ammo and they all reload. But like I said, it depends on the reloading rig too. The progressive systems let you do like 300-400 rounds an hour. They can cut cost too using say powder coated lead vs copper plated FMJ. Rather fascinated if your friend reloads .22lr. I mean cheap .22 is just that - super cheap. The high end Eley stuff must be what he is chasing after? His results are good? *[feathery]: hairy So @Daaksyde replied xeni: > they had more than 1,600 unused bullets on hand […] and over 3,000 additional rounds of ammunition Doesn't sound very sensationalist. We all know from Hollywood that would be less than 5 minutes supply. What would it be anyway, like 3 clips for your snub-nose assault pistol? *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon34812172 said It was years ago, and I can't remember what he said he had. It was something like this, if not one of these: Anschutz North America ### Match Rifles When first place is your destination, these rifles below will help get you there...! This section lists our Match and Competition rifles for just about every shooting need. Listed here are the... He was definitely an ammosexual of a completely different breed. He hated “gun culture” and all the claptrap about this and that that we've been discussing. All he liked to do was shoot far away targets with his little expensive pea popper that he made special peas for. As far as weird co-workers, I was way more worried about the quiet guy who never bathed or talked to anybody. My marksman friend was as harmless as they come. He wrote great code, too. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon33466019 said @Mister44 I think you are a well thought out, considerate, and reasonable person. I disagree with your position on guns. *[feathery]: hairy @solrac1970 (Jaan Q) replied Tuesday I went ammo shopping for the weekend. I bought a 555 round box of .22LR (seriously, that's how Winchester sells it, 555 rounds), 50 shells for a 28 gauge shotgun and another 50 shells of 20 gauge, that's just enough for me and my girlfriend to shoot a round of Sporting Clays this weekend. So all in total 655 “bullets”. That's just what was in my car for the drive home. At home I don't even know how many rounds of .22LR, .30-30 Winchester, .270 Winchester, 12 gauge slugs #4 shot, and target shells I have not to mention actual .45 caliber round ball bullets for my flintlock and .54 caliber round ball bullets for my caplock muzzleloader. It wouldn't surprise me if there was at least 1500 “bullets” all told. *[feathery]: hairy @some_guy (I wish I'd chosen a better name.) replied When the shooting started a lot of people were assuming yet another angry white guy, now it's turned into non-white guy, maybe Muslim extremist, but the fact still remains: guns, ammo, mass shooting. Conservatives will use this as justification for keeping Syrian refugees out, or other more draconian Islamopohbic measures, but if a white guy does it they just shrug their shoulders and say “hey, price of freedom.” It's the same goddamn crime – keeping out Syrians won't stop angry white guys from shooting up a school. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon68952647 said is what you're saying, in essence, that the news delivered here, to you, for free, which you read, is not relevant or in true fact news? Keep punching up. Thanks for the mansplain about how common the horror is! *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon68952647 said Mister44: > My point is for the layperson who has no clue Friend. We have a clue. *[feathery]: hairy Then @twistmeyer (Mike Meyer) said The funny thing is that it's exactly backwards, firearms companies are continually embarrassed by the NRA, and at least one was on the receiving end of a long boycott for defying the NRA over a law. The NRA gets most of its support from its millions of members, and often creates PR nightmares for the firearms industry through their ham handed statements. *[feathery]: hairy To which @gatto (gatto) replied daneel: > CNN don't even have an agenda to push the agenda is profit, unfortunately. overriding the goals of people there who might even want to try to do good journalism. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon68952647 said LDoBe: > They're different. A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things although no difference exists. **It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations associated with it that one party to an argument prefers to avoid.** Wikiwand ### Distinction without a difference | Wikiwand A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things where no discernible difference exists.[1] It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations... *[feathery]: hairy So @gatto (gatto) replied i have some empathy, because – unfortunately – after all the threats and previous acts of violence against planned parenthood: those shootings were not out completely unexpected. in many people's minds it's obvious: i'm not at planned parenthood, i'm not in danger. here you have a holiday party of some kind, unknown assailants, and unknown motive. i can almost imagine people heading to their fallout shelter. people have been made to be very afraid, and when something fits with that narrative – the panic sets in. it's also, i think, how fascism starts. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @gatto (gatto) added Boundegar: > you can't take your guns to your moms house to help make dinner venison. you gotta kill that deer with something. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @kupfernigk (Kupfernigk is dead, please don't contact him.) added Papasan: > But on the other hand, maybe they should have worked out a better escape plan. Guess they didn't plan that far ahead… They left their child behind, knowing they would never be able to go back for it. Did they actually intend to survive? *[feathery]: hairy So @anon68952647 replied LDoBe: > Then I pointed out that a clip and a magazine are actually different and distinct. A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things although no difference exists. **It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations associated with it that one party to an argument prefers to avoid.** Wikiwand ### Distinction without a difference | Wikiwand A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things where no discernible difference exists.[1] It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations... *[feathery]: hairy Then @kupfernigk (Kupfernigk is dead, please don't contact him.) said roomwithaview: > I find myself on alJazeera's American edition more often than not. Provided you get a range of sources, stuff with agenda should not be a problem. I occasionally read rt.com, and it is interesting how one often reads “Putin did this” and “Putin said that” on the US or UK news, and it then turns out that it was actually some idiot nationalist MP in the Duma saying something that will never get into law. Also, Putin and Lavrov's speeches as reported in full are usually much more moderate than the paraphrases of the West. Put up against the Republican candidates, Putin is definitely at the Jeb Bush end, not the Trump end. If you know French, Le Point is also good value (it's centre right by French standards.) *[feathery]: hairy So @jsroberts (Jonathan Roberts) replied sargon: > The >1600 unused rounds in the SUV, as well as all the goddamn pipe bombs, is somewhat less normal, yes? That's just my walking around ammo. *[feathery]: hairy So @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) replied AcerPlatanoides: > A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things although no difference exists. There's a world of difference between a clip and a magazine. Your argument is therefore invalid. *[feathery]: hairy To which @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) replied Mister44: > Yes it would take for ever using the small hand loaders, but they have progressive machines that allow one to reload in larger batches quickly. Thought. People make amazing robotic contraptions from lego or from 3d printed parts. Could a reloading robot be made? *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon34812172 added Sounds completely normal. In my little breakdown, above, I forgot to mention that buying huge buckets of .22 is also considered normal and shouldn't be in my tally of what's excessive. It's very common to have thousands of rounds of .22 laying around, because it's so cheap to buy. I was tallying high-calibre rounds in my assessment of what could be commonly branded as “excessive.” Even if you bought 3x what you just wrote, that would still be normal, because you might have gotten it on sale and you were thinking ahead to the next couple of times you want to go out with your girlfriend. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon34812172 added shaddack: > Could a reloading robot be made? Of course. There is a whole precision process that is very repetitive, and a robot is perfect for that. That's the thing that makes commercial bullets anyhow. A consumer version is not very long from existence. I'd say about as complex as a home-built pick-and-place. Probably not even needing vision. Just do all the sizing and filing steps and toss the bad brass right before the actual loading and priming steps. I'd keep the human inspection part in the middle, because that's cheapest and can be done very quickly and accurately. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon68939300 added The normal news sources are just fine, you just have to watch, listen, and read with a critical eye. I was watching CNN last night and it's pretty easy to separate out the facts from opinion and editorial. When the story is breaking, there's often a lot of misinformation, but a few days in and the facts are starting to settle out. *[feathery]: hairy @anon68939300 replied Where do you buy your 22 rounds? I haven't looked for about a year, but last time I checked, the stuff was still on short supply and priced much higher than it was just a few years ago. *[feathery]: hairy @Medievalist (Charlie) replied I helped deliver a snowblower to an elderly couple a few years ago. We moved hundreds of pounds of ammunition in order to clear enough room in the shed. I'd say an area equivalent to half a cord of firewood, so for you city types that'd be nearly two cubic meters of boxed and crated ammunition in various calibers. I suggested that such materials were better stored indoors, in the basement, and my suggestion was accepted. I consider that to be a win for society, particularly for the local neighborhood. Guy's a WWII vet, lost family in the ovens. Doesn't trust governments, unsurprisingly. *[feathery]: hairy To which @pixleshifter (User) replied burpchick: > This may not be the time/place to ask, but do folks have suggestions for a reliable, online news source that isn't sensationalistic? France24 is often my go-to for international news. They have several language streams, including English. Good news analyses too. *[feathery]: hairy @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) replied Anschutz is the rifle maker, and yes, they are known for making great match rifles. Eley is one of, if not the top, maker of match rimfire ammo, ironically from England. They also make pre-primed brass for other makers, as Mexican Aguila uses Eley primed cartridges. They must use a different priming compound as they have a distinctly different smell than something from say Winchester or Federal. I have never heard of someone making their own match ammo for .22lr. So he has to be a rare breed indeed. Then again I am not in the precision .22lr shooters circles, so maybe more people do it than I think. If it works for him then great. *[feathery]: hairy So @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) replied Would it be a robot, or just a machine. That's how the ammo manufactures make ammo. They don't have people hand pouring powder, it is all automated. I know there are more and more small time ammo makers, so I assume they are using something that is faster/more automated than a hobbyists progressive loader, but smaller than a large plant facility. You wouldn't need something as advanced as a robot with optics or needing to think about things, just a machine that repeats a process. Lego would be too fragile for sizing and trimming brass and crimping bullets. I do know one guy who gets range brass, sorts, and sells it. He has a fancy machine that reminds me of a gold panning sluice. You can dump a bucket of mixed brass and it goes down a vibrating belt and the various shell sizes drop into buckets. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon34812172 said I don't. I reload all my .22. #HAHAHAHAH KanyeDGDO5.gif720×450 1.17 MB *[feathery]: hairy So @anon34812172 replied He talked about being in a small group of similar-minded weirdoes. I think they were plotting to take over the world with their extremely precise single shot pea poppers. *[feathery]: hairy Then @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) said I argue the Ruger 10/22 is the ultimate zombie gun. It can hold 25 rounds, easy to suppress, and you can carry 1000 rounds in large fanny pack. Since zombies only die from brain shots, and the .22 is more than capable of doing that, it would be way more practical than a center fire rifle. And they are pretty darn accurate. *[feathery]: hairy @daneel (daneel) replied MSNBC have done a video tour of their apartment while it was still an active crime scene? *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon34812172 said Insanity. The whole nation and Western world are insane. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @Medievalist (Charlie) added C'mon, now, you have to glorify the shooters and put their names on the front page of the paper if you want to ensure a steady supply of atrocities to sell. That's just _science_. And you have to put calls for gun ownership restrictions on the front page, too, so that you can sell more guns and ammo. Works every time! Ugh, gotta go wash my mouth out. *[feathery]: hairy To which @daneel (daneel) replied Hey, at least this guy got a popsicle. https://twitter.com/Eric_Bartoszak/status/672841138445926400 CVZpcbjWsAEfSCc.jpg600×800 84.4 KB *[feathery]: hairy @roomwithaview (roomwithaview) replied Chesterfield: > The normal news sources are just fine, you just have to watch, listen, and read with a critical eye. And I do, it's just difficult when something doesn't get covered at all! *[feathery]: hairy To which @awfulhorrid (Eff McDonald) replied AcerPlatanoides: > A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things although no difference exists I personally have no horse in this race, but I still note that you seem to be missing the part where @LDoBe has patiently explained that there is, in fact, a difference in these terms. To me, this is like when someone refers to a computer (as in the desktop box with all those components inside) as a CPU. *[feathery]: hairy Then @TooGoodToCheck_ (Neil Mcconnell) said And yet if a non-technical person talks about their CPU and it's obvious they actually mean computer, I still know what they're talking about, so unless I feel like being a dick I generally just let it slide. *[feathery]: hairy Then @jerwin (Jeremy Erwin) said Probably just old mainframers who are stuck in their ways. RH_IBM360panel.JPG633×702 102 KB *[feathery]: hairy Then @Max_Blancke (Max Blancke) said I agree on most points. A guy in our town was arrested for having “burglary tools” in his car. They did not accuse him of burglary or anything. I have the same tools and more in my car. That is a good reason to never consent to a search. Even for those of us who are completely law abiding. On the other hand, it is a felony to make or posses a pipe bomb. If you have a bag of pipe bombs, you are a terrorist, or perhaps a spree killer. You are not a “bomb hobbyist”. I know people who collect ordinance like land mines and grenades, but those things are always completely inert and harmless. *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon33466019 said That may be the ultimate _zombie gun_ , but it isn't the ultimate zombie weapon. A shovel with a sharpened edge. Or a Caterpillar excavator. Or just a few nukes. (But what if we use more power?) *[feathery]: hairy Then @shaddack (Thomas Shaddack) said japhroaig: > (But what if we use more power?) Worth an experiment. *[feathery]: hairy To which @Mister44 (The High Plains Drifter) replied I agree that melee weapons for like in the woods would be best. I have NO idea why they don't make spears out of fixed blade knives on Walking dead. ALL their knives should be like large fighting knives like Ka-Bars. As much as I love 1911s, Glenn should ditch his and get something high capacity… sorry… I better stop. I love the show but they do so much so wrong. *[feathery]: hairy To which @peemlives (Joreyadan Swayeri) replied en.wikipedia.org ### Main Page The Thaddeus McCotter presidential campaign of 2012 began when he filed papers on July 1, 2011, to run for the Republican Party's 2012 nomination for President of the United States. He officially announced his candidacy the next day at a rock festival near Detroit. McCotter, who had been a congressman from Michigan since 2003, was first mentioned as a potential presidential candidate on an April 2011 episode of the Fox News show Red Eye. During the campaign, he focused on reform of government and... I'm serious. *[feathery]: hairy To which @Daaksyde replied LDoBe: > I got slightly annoyed at the conflation. And yet, still there've been no bites on “snub-nose assault pistol”, a phrase so bad people should be clamoring to be the first to correct it. *[feathery]: hairy Then @RatMan (RatMan) said Daaksyde: > And yet, still there've been no bites on “snub-nose assault pistol”, a phrase so bad people should be clamoring to be the first to correct it. Probably because it exists. Google yourself a picture of an H&K MP5K. “Snub-nosed assault pistol” is a perfectly fine description of it. The US Secret Service is very fond of them. The SEALS like them too, but their version has an extended barrel. Completely illegal here in California, but we have some of the toughest gun laws in the country, for all the good it does us. *[feathery]: hairy @ficuswhisperer replied Is it bad that I was hoping the perps would end up being white and Christian? *[feathery]: hairy So @burpchick (Jaime Natoli) replied By the way, this isn't just about getting reliable news (although that's a big part of it). Another reason I asked this question is because I want to stop rewarding (e.g., clicking on links) journalistic detritus. So, even thought a well-educated and rational person might be able to get the good nuggets out of a particular broadcast or news article (as Chesterfield suggested), I'd rather find a news source that I can respect. I mean, why not just watch Fox News if I can listen critically? Not gonna happen. Also, today's crap with all the journalists storming in the shooters' house (which I heard about on the radio driving home) was off-the-charts unethical – I'd like to compile a list of every station that had a reporter in there and make sure I never access those web sites, TV stations, etc. again (regardless of who offers up any too-little-too-late apologies). Anyway, I checked out a bunch of the sites that folks mentioned above – thank you. I'm happy to hear about the alternatives. (On a not-so-random side note, I'm very much missing John Oliver right now.) *[feathery]: hairy So @milliefink (Millie Fink) replied In case no one's mentioned it, Democracy Now! Is my fave. *[feathery]: hairy @awfulhorrid (Eff McDonald) replied TooGoodToCheck_: > And yet if a non-technical person talks about their CPU and it's obvious they actually mean computer, I still know what they're talking about, so unless I feel like being a dick I generally just let it slide. Sure, but imagine that I'm standing there as a relatively neutral person listening to the one who's using these terms incorrectly and someone who uses them correctly speaking. The second person tries to explain the difference between the terms and the first person insists that there is no actual difference and the second is trying to push some unnamed agenda yadda yadda yadda. Frankly, I'm more likely to start listening to the second person, seeing as how they're using the correct terms and therefore seem to know more about the actual subject. Words matter. Terminology matters. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @anon68952647 added Fascinating read. Amazing DATA. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/ *[feathery]: hairy Then @anon68952647 said awfulhorrid: > The second person tries to explain the difference between the terms and the first person insists that there is no actual difference and the second is trying to push some unnamed agenda yadda yadda yadda. In the case you describe, both sides have an agenda. You just happen to agree with one of them, *[feathery]: hairy To which @navarro (navarro) replied i'm not sure what your agenda is here but if two people are having a discussion i'm likely to be more interested in what the one whose agenda is “words matter” says than in the other one. *[feathery]: hairy To which @jsroberts (Jonathan Roberts) replied I was secretly hoping that one would be a woman, and now I feel bad. *[feathery]: hairy After which, @aeon added jsroberts: > I was secretly hoping that one would be a woman, and now I feel bad. And I was quietly hoping they'd be immigrants so I could point out how they had demonstrated just how well they'd integrated into US society by ‘going postal' in a very traditionally American fashion. Then I thought better of it. And now I've done it anyway and I'm a bad, bad person for even thinking it … *[feathery]: hairy To which @anon68952647 replied navarro: > i'm not sure what your agenda is here but if two people are having a discussion i'm likely to be more interested in what the one whose agenda is “words matter” says than in the other one. I am squarely in the _words are cheap_ , **actions matter** camp; may we meet again at the barricades. *[feathery]: hairy @anon68952647 replied LDoBe: > And I want you to explicitly state what agenda you think I have while you're accusing me of intellectual dishonesty. I believe your agenda is to, via intellectual dishonesty,cause the appearance of exactly such a claim having being made against yourself, from me, when you just made that shit up form whole cloth and ego. LDoBe: > Discussing in good faith is what separates community members from trolls, and so far, everything you've said to me in this thread hasn't been a good faith ssmith@example.net. Everything? Perhaps I am mocking you ,gently. LDoBe: > Or would you lose too much face I have no idea what your ego is doing here, sounds like you have a face thing going on> I do know that good faith that is not. LDoBe: > I'd expect you to start name calling instead, Totally not what you are doing though. Staaaaaahp! LDoBe: > since your insistence on me backing some nefarious agenda can't actually be substantiated. Uh huh Okay then. I said any such thing where? When did this become about me? Are you THAT desperate to derail from the gun control issue? *[feathery]: hairy So @anon68952647 replied awfulhorrid: > in fact, a difference in these terms one with no meaningful distinction to several hundred people you're changing the subject away from. I guess I'm here for them since they're logged off. logged off is a euphemism for murdered DEAD. I know it makes you uncomfortable. ffs, start a thread about the difference if it matters so much. This one is about the overkill of it all. Have some heart guys. *[feathery]: hairy So @awfulhorrid (Eff McDonald) replied AcerPlatanoides: > You just happen to agree with one of them, I do? Wow, I didn't know that. I could have sworn I specifically stated that I am fairly neutral in this discussion. In case this is unclear, this means I am open to well-presented, accurate and factual, information from each side. In this issue, there are raving nutjobs on both sides of the aisle and someone like me (again, “fairly neutral”) gets to choose to which voices I listen. You obviously have a side, but you're not doing a particularly good job of representing that point of view. You accuse @LDoBe of an agenda, but that's an interesting thing there, as I've seen them make statements that put the lie to that claim. (For the record, I'll note that in other threads they have made strong arguments _for_ firearm regulations.) Edit: “thing,” not “this.” *[feathery]: hairy So @L_Mariachi (El Mariachi) replied Or “I dunno warden, it musta been some freak explosion, what else could possibly account for a dead inmate found next to a bloody steel pipe in his cell?” *[feathery]: hairy To which @john_c (John) replied burpchick: > By the way, this isn't just about getting reliable news (although that's a big part of it). Another reason I asked this question is because I want to stop rewarding (e.g., clicking on links) journalistic detritus. So, even thought a well-educated and rational person might be able
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