@ivylass (ivylass) posted a new topic, subject "I Didn't Realize How Much an Abuser Khan Was". It read:

   I'm watching _Space Seed_ on BBC as part of the 50th anniversary celebration and I'm shocked at how much Khan abuses Lt. McGivers, and how much she's willing to accept it.
    
    Yikes.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

After which, @Jonathan_Chance (Jonathan Chance) added

    Yeah, I just watched that tonight - not on the beeb - and he's a domineering dick.
    
    It's part of his routine, though. Manipulate and dominate to get his way and advance his ambitions.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

To which @Bryan_Ekers (Bryan Ekers) replied

    That and other aspects clearly prove that Montalban's version of Khan was infinitely more interesting than Cumberbatch's. Montalban's Khan was passionate and cruel. Cumberbatch's Khan was a Terminator with Asperger's.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

So @burpo_the_wonder_mutt (burpo the wonder mutt) replied

    I always wondered how McGivers got to be a Starfleet officer, being such a pushover. She should have been executed.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

So @Bryan_Ekers (Bryan Ekers) replied

    burpo_the_wonder_mutt:
    
    > I always wondered how McGivers got to be a Starfleet officer, being such a pushover. She should have been executed.
    
    Well, in all fairness, she _did_ end up dying horribly, so there's that, at least.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

To which @Count_Blucher (Count Blucher) replied

    Bryan_Ekers:
    
    > Well, in all fairness, she _did_ end up dying horribly, so there's that, at least.
    
    She married an asshole “Dom”.
    
    Honestly, even in fluffy candy-land SciFi, what the fuck did she expect…?
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

@ivylass (ivylass) replied

    In retrospect, Khan did have a point…Starfleet just dropped them off with minimal supplies and never bothered to check on them. If Kirk were going to circumvent the legal process, skipping a trial and a court martial to impose his own sentence of exiling the accused on a harsh planet, doesn't he own the responsibility of making sure they could survive and thrive? Of course, ban them from ever leaving the planet, but he did just drop them off and sail on his merry way.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

To which @Grey (Grey) replied

    The planet wasn't originally harsh.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

@ivylass (ivylass) replied

    In _Space Seed_ Khan told McGivers it would be a struggle to even survive, to find food. You could argue it was wilderness, not the desolate wasteland it became with the explosion of Seti Alpha Six, but it was no Risa.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

After which, @Miller (Miller) added

    Bryan_Ekers:
    
    > That and other aspects clearly prove that Montalban's version of Khan was infinitely more interesting than Cumberbatch's. Montalban's Khan was passionate and cruel. Cumberbatch's Khan was a Terminator with Asperger's.
    
    My head canon for that: Cumberbatch wasn't playing Khan. Starrleet thought they were unfreezing Khan, but due to a beureucratic snafu, they unfroze his second in common instead, who went along with the ruse to protect his boss.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

To which @Kent_Clark (Kent Clark) replied

    Count_Blucher:
    
    > She married an asshole “Dom”.
    > 
    > Honestly, even in fluffy candy-land SciFi, what the fuck did she expect…?
    
    She wasn't familiar with Milton, either.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

After which, @Robot_Arm (Robot Arm) added

    ivylass:
    
    > In _Space Seed_ Khan told McGivers it would be a struggle to even survive, to find food. You could argue it was wilderness, not the desolate wasteland it became with the explosion of Seti Alpha Six, but it was no Risa.
    
    When the Reliant came back to that system on its survey mission, how did they not notice one of the planets was missing?
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

Then @Bryan_Ekers (Bryan Ekers) said

    Miller:
    
    > My head canon for that: Cumberbatch wasn't playing Khan. Starrleet thought they were unfreezing Khan, but due to a beureucratic snafu, they unfroze his second in common instead, who went along with the ruse to protect his boss.
    
    Interesting theory, but with one flaw: Cumberbatch's name was in the credits.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

After which, @cochrane (cochrane) added

    Bryan_Ekers:
    
    > That and other aspects clearly prove that Montalban's version of Khan was infinitely more interesting than Cumberbatch's. Montalban's Khan was passionate and cruel. Cumberbatch's Khan was a Terminator with Asperger's.
    
    A reviewer for _The Wrath of Kahn_ for People magazine wrote that Montalban was “hilariously miscast.” No cite, but I remember reading the review. How in the name of the Great Bird is it miscasting to hire the original actor from the episode that was the source material for the movie?
    
    ETA - found it.
    
    http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20082619,00.html
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

Then @Miller (Miller) said

    Bryan_Ekers:
    
    > Interesting theory, but with one flaw: Cumberbatch's name was in the credits.
    
    I assume you mean Khan's name was in the credits? Doesn't mean anything. James Earl Jones was never credited as Anakin Skywalker, even though that's who he really was.
    
    cochrane:
    
    > A reviewer for _The Wrath of Kahn_ for People magazine wrote that Montalban was “hilariously miscast.” No cite, but I remember reading the review. How in the name of the Great Bird is it miscasting to hire the original actor from the episode that was the source material for the movie?
    > 
    > ETA - found it.
    > 
    > http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20082619,00.html
    
    Although odds are he didn't really know anything about the series, and didn't realize it was a returning character, it's possible he didn't think Montalban was well cast in the original episode.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

Then @cochrane (cochrane) said

    Miller:
    
    > Although odds are he didn't really know anything about the series, and didn't realize it was a returning character, it's possible he didn't think Montalban was well cast in the original episode.
    
    I prefer to believe it was the former. He probably never saw _Space Seed_.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

To which @standingwave (standingwave) replied

    ivylass:
    
    > I'm watching _Space Seed_ on BBC as part of the 50th anniversary celebration and I'm shocked at how much Khan abuses Lt. McGivers, and how much she's willing to accept it.
    > 
    > Yikes.
    
    Wait, didn't he respect her boundaries?Lt. Marla McGivers: I don't know if you're going to like living in our time.  
    Khan Noonien Singh: Then I'll have to re-mold it to my liking.  
    Lt. Marla McGivers: [Khan moves in to embrace Marla] Please don't.  
    Khan Noonien Singh: [pushes her away] Go. Or stay, but do it because it is what you _wish_ to do!  
    [awkward pause]  
    Khan Noonien Singh: Well?  
    Lt. Marla McGivers: I'll stay a little longer.  
    Khan Noonien Singh: How many minutes do you graciously offer?  
    Lt. Marla McGivers: I only meant…  
    Khan Noonien Singh: This grows tiresome. You must now _ask_ to stay.  
    Lt. Marla McGivers: [timidly] I'd like to stay… please.  
    Yeah, he's a dick.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

@Voyager (Voyager) replied

    burpo_the_wonder_mutt:
    
    > I always wondered how McGivers got to be a Starfleet officer, being such a pushover. She should have been executed.
    
    IIRC, she was a historian, so toughness was probably not in the job description.  
    As for the OP, Khan was a guy who had taken over a good chunk of the world, and so was probably not Mr. Kissy Kissy. Khan probably abused lots of people who also took it.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

So @BigT (BigT (he/him)) replied

    I always assumed he had some sort of genetic ability to be trusted–that it was part of being a superman. Maybe he had pheremones, maybe he just was an excellent manipulator and zeroed in on exactly who was vulnerable and how they were vulnerable, maybe both.
    
    In short, he had a very high charisma score.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

To which @Bryan_Ekers (Bryan Ekers) replied

    Miller:
    
    > I assume you mean Khan's name was in the credits?
    
    No, it was a joke about Judson Scott (the actor who played Joachim in _Wrath of Khan_ ), whose name was absent from the film's credits for some reason (backfired negotiation for a _higher_ listing in the credits, or so the legend goes). Cumberbatch _was_ credited, hence he could not be Joachim.
      *[boustrophedonically]: Redaer eht rof esicrexe na sa tfel si pu siht gnikool.

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )

( there was a missing post )


{'source': 'discourse', 'url': 'https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492', 'title': "I Didn't Realize How Much an Abuser Khan Was", 'views': 15950, 'has_accepted_answer': False, 'word_count': 21681, 'like_count': 0, 'reply_count': 247, 'participant_count': 52, 'posts': 248, 'tags': '', 'author': '@ivylass (ivylass)', 'participants': '@ivylass (ivylass), @Jonathan_Chance (Jonathan Chance), @Bryan_Ekers (Bryan Ekers), @burpo_the_wonder_mutt (burpo the wonder mutt), @Count_Blucher (Count Blucher), @Grey (Grey), @Miller (Miller), @Kent_Clark (Kent Clark), @Robot_Arm (Robot Arm), @cochrane (cochrane), @standingwave (standingwave), @Voyager (Voyager), @BigT (BigT (he/him))', 'image_url': [None], 'created_at': '2016-09-10T01:58:53.000Z', 'last_posted_at': '2016-09-25T04:54:58.000Z'}