@CommonDreams (Common Dreams) posted a new topic, subject ""Don't Tell Me We Can't Afford Medicare for All," Says Sanders, After NYT Details Insanely Higher Costs of US Healthcare". It read:

   Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/27/dont-tell-me-we-cant-afford-medicare-all-says-sanders-after-nyt-details-insanely

@PonyBoy replied

    It's the _“Duopoly Disinformation Campaign”_ designed to make liars of those telling the truth.
    
    TPTB want you to believe there's only money for the Military, the Corporations, and the Rich.
    
    **Stop Fucking Enabling Them.**

After which, @unlikelysource (Doug Latimer) added

    The Time's editorial board will, of course, assiduously avoid any mention of these inconvenient truths, as they tirelessly strive to convince us that spending a nickel to save a dime is the epitome of fiscal irresponsibility.

To which @Hempest (Jonathan ) replied

    Bernie needs to hit Biden and the other politicians over the head with corruption. Because they all take bribes from big Pharma and other trans national corporations to do their bidding, which mostly entails ripping people off, making them sick, profiting from the sickness and destroying the planet. The time is right to run on anti-corruption if you are Bernie Sanders. You have earned it.

To which @patricia_scully (Patricia Scully) replied

    Ding, ding, ding!!! How many more times does this info have to be drilled into the heads of the American people?

So @SuspiraDeProfundis replied

    See this is the “free market” allowing the people in the USA to “shop around” for the best price wherein the competitive marketplace allows the consumer “Choices”.
    
    In theory the competition is supposed to keep prices lower. This is what idiots from the friedman school of economics will tell you.
    
    As far as the reality goes the choices the US “consumer” has are any price range they want as long as it the highest in the world. It sort of like that old joke told about democracy in the USSR. You can vote any party you like as long as it the Communist party.
    
    Another case of projection.

After which, @oldie (PEACE ) added

    Americans spend 18% of all hard earned dollars for the medicals.  
    50% is waste per Aetna web site.  
    And who monitors medical results, quality of care??
    
    Our first step has to be improving quality and reducing waste, This auto cuts costs down to 9% of what we earn. Without any employer contribution, other than saying they are providing a group rate = $200.00 per week for husband and wife. Which was 20% of gross earnings and the famous $5,000.00 annual out of pocket.
    
    Second step is to review all employees in health care. Those deficient are out, period.  
    This did occur in the Detroit area a few years ago.
    
    Third step is to cover pre-natal through 16th birthday, fully - 100% without deductables.  
    Medical, dental, vision. AT age 16, the person begins paying $10.00 per month for all this. The money must be ‘earned' by the person by work outside of any family or friends .Each birthday, we bump up the monthly premium a bit.
    
    Fourth: we whack pharma companies. do not be afraid of nationalizing them. The government sponsors most research anyway.
    
    Fifth: Somewhere there are a group of hundred year old guys. They take naps and accomplish moderate exercise. The radio news did not divulge other key factors like not having stress from a trumpo presidency. Menu, vodka, weather not known yet.

So @Hayduke (George Hayduke) replied

    Maybe you can immigrate to Australia.That country you were recently badmouthing has a much better healthcare system than the US.

To which @Earthbound (Michael Green) replied

    Hayduke:
    
    > Maybe you can immigrate to Australia.
    
    But that continent is burning into a cinder. Lung health is not going to tolerate all smoke and pollutants in the air.  
    Try another.

So @Earthbound (Michael Green) replied

    So what is the purpose of a health insurance company? Used to be to collect a sizable group of potential patients from different companies and work deals out for coverage and care by doctors and hospitals, at discounted prices. And a main function was to take on risk, and in order to do that the insurances need a large reserve of money to cover high pay procedures and extra costs.
    
    Now it's all a gouging game, take on less risk, make individuals pay more out of pockets, and earn huge rewards by denying care costs (and laugh all the way to the bank) for their board members, CEO's, and stockholders. Of course a lot of blame resides in the rip off prices of medical procedures and pharmaceutical pricing.
    
    Who needs private health insurance companies!? One payer universal health care with more control over costs and no prime profit motive from the ill health of the people, is the way of the future.  
    Bernie 2020.

To which @Schelin (Lee Schelin) replied

    I calculated what we currently pay for health insurance for my wife and I. Then calculated Medicare for all while increasing our income tax by 25%. At the end of the year we saved $1,200 by using the Medicare for All model.

@RonR (Ron Rutter) replied

    And I doubt your income tax would increase anywhere that amount. You people have been brainwashed BIG TIME.  
    In the past 5 years my wife has two new knees & a new hip. Our cost? Our monthly premiums of $75. which are just about to disappear.

To which @Earthbound (Michael Green) replied

    RonR:
    
    > You people have been brainwashed BIG TIME.
    
    Estimated costs of health care in USA now approaching 4 trillion dollars a year, and rising rapidly. Certainly more than than highest scary estimated costs of Medicare for All quoted at 3 trillion dollars a year by opponents.  
    The major question that I would like you to answer, why can't the ‘richest' country in the world afford universal health care for its population when dozens of other countries have done so for years? Of course other countries don't spend as much on military and war as the next 8 highest payers. Indeed we are a ‘fortunate' country, a death machine empire instead of a benevolent healthy democratic one…Might is right, until it's not. The day is fast approaching, our empire will implode like so many before. We become the Axis with Israel, Britain, and a few others, and the rest of the world are the Allies. This has been played out in the not too distant past. Not a good ending for any of us—as the 6th Extinction takes all. Oh yeh, don't forget that nagging issue. It that doesn't ring a bell, try out the fact that in 30 years most all the wealth in this country will reside in just a few hands, and the revolution by the 99.9% is inevitable. The MIC oligarchy have so much backed this country into a death spiral corner.
    
    A spark of life is before us, listen to the scientists, follow the budding youth movements, go big progressive. Go Green. Rapidly.  
    Bernie and Us. 2020.

Then @Marthaorne (Jacqueline Cleary) said

    The facts are refuted by the myths of months of waiting for sub-par care. The myths are much more entertaining than facts. It is like gossip which travels on a super highway until everybody is sure that what they heard is the truth.

Then @Maxwell1956 (Mr. Blair M. Phillips) said

    New York Times…Who's publishing “Fake News” Now?
    
    Mr. Blair M. Phillips  
    Canada  
    Retired

To which @caseyf5 (Kenneth Fingeret) replied

    Hello Jessica Corbett and Everyone,  
    We have reached the point in which the medical profession (all of it no matter how peripheral) needs to be put on a starvation diet for all of their sins of the past and it can only get a 1% increase per annum). This should serve as a warning to the other MF'ers! This will never happen as SINGLE PAYER will never happen in the US unless the US is destroyed and something else takes its place just like Rome after the fall of the Roman Empire. All empires fall/fail and the outcome is always destruction of the once was and there is something else pretending to be what once was.

To which @lorpublicaction (Lorin M Klugman) replied

    The last 2 paragraphs of this article are misleading.
    
    E.G. “The _Times_ acknowledges that two White House hopefuls—Sanders and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)—have put forth single-payer plans”
    
    Warren opposes Single-Payer Medicare for All with a public-option which enforces and maintains private insurance.
    
    Bernie is the only candidate who has been consistently correct. Bernie has always lead and supported Single-Payer Medicare for All.

To which @Giovanna-Lepore (Giovann Lepore) replied

    What I found disingenuous about the Times article is that it clearly tries to justify the high costs as private insurers supposedly pay more–no mention as to why this might be. So we are to feel sorry now for those in the business of exploiting our health care needs, who deny us actual coverage as often as they can by paying more, a lot more, and sometimes 100% of the costs? This is utter bull shit. Period.

So @somethingisrotten (Richard Armstrong) replied

    But if Bernie ran on anti-corruption that would mean drawing a line in the sand. I don't think he's ready to risk losing a ‘friend' in the establishment to go quite that far. Bernie can't seem to criticize any of his longtime Democrat cronies without prefacing his criticism with what a good ‘friend' they are to him. I think that's a flaw in his approach. He talks like a revolutionary but he can't seem to accept that his Democrat ‘friends' don't give a rat's ass about him. They are going to stab him in the back if it looks like he has a chance of winning the nomination. And when they do, he'll play Mr. Nice Guy and endorse whoever they appoint.

After which, @genedebs added

    Bernie made a bargain with “The Devil” (the party establishment) in order to be allowed to run for the Democratic nomination. He agreed to support whomever the nominee is if it is not he. They all agreed to that as a condition of being allowed in the debates. He knows that the ONLY current path that exists for him to have a chance at being POTUS is through on of the two major parties. So, he's stuck being “civil” to the bought-and-paid-for shills with him on the debate stage, and in Congress. The other threat against him, if he doesn't “play nice”, is that the party could strip him of all of his committee assignments, and run a real primary opponent against him in 2024 (although there's a good chance that this might be his last term in the Senate).
    
    However, none of the rest of us signed any such agreements to “be nice” to those establishment shills, and we shouldn't be. We know the facts. We know how absolutely bought-and-paid-for every other candidate for POTUS is. It is up to us to hammer away at that every chance we get. And if the establishment succeeds in cheating us out of Bernie being the nominee again, we all need to pledge to NEVER support the nominee, and campaign against them for the Fall campaign. The only way average people ever get control of one of the two major parties is for the establishment to lose control of the party. And the only way that ever happens is for them to quit winning by doing the same old, same old bidding of their rich and powerful donors. They must LOSE doing what they have been doing. That is the ONLY way the people will ever take control of a party. Obviously, it would be far better for the rest of us if they lost a primary to Bernie, but they cannot be allowed to cheat us out of a progressive candidate again, and win a general election in doing so. I will be out there taking a wrecking ball to the party if Biden or similar is the nominee, and you should as well.

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