@EasyPhil (EasyPhil) posted a new topic, subject "Does a wrong way driver have the "right of way"?". It read:

   Specifically if vehicle X is entering the roadway from a parking lot entrance/exit and vehicle Y traveling the wrong way makes a left turn into the same entrance/exit
    
    Does vehicle Y have right of way over vehicle X?

Then @md2000 (md2000) said

    If you don't have the right to be there, how would you have the right of way?
    
    If both are single lane - the road and the driveway - then essentially you are at an impasse - neither can proceed until the other moves, and obviously the person with no right to be there has to figure out how to make it right.  
    OTOH, prudence suggests that if someone is ignoring the “one way” rule, why would you expect they obey right of way rules?
    
    Unless both are two lanes, there's a blockage in the process and whoever is blocking by sitting in the single lane will have to move… Unless the person emerging insists on sitting there until the wrong-way car moves.
    
    It's like when two cars meet head-on on a single-lane bridge; one of them has to move.
    
    (Fun story - friend of mine was bumming around Belize in his college days many decades ago. He said they had a lot of long low single-lane bridges over swaps. The traffic rule was whoever was past the center of the bridge had right of way if there were oncoming traffic, the other guy would have to back up. The effect of this rule was the bus driver would floor it as soon as they saw the bridge. )

@EasyPhil (EasyPhil) replied

    For this question vehicle Y is traveling the wrong way on a two way roadway with two lanes of traffic each way with a double yellow line dividing the roadway.

To which @kanicbird (kanicbird) replied

    AFAIK Parking lots are not regulated as streets and those signs are not legally binding, so no right of way. Many parking areas entrance and exits are likewise suggestions, however if there is a solid line from the road that one has to cross then one can typically turn into a private lot or driveway crossing the solid line on their side, however can not make a left out, you cant cross a solid line exiting a private drive. So I'm not sure your situation fits going the ‘wrong way' as you can make a left off a road into a parking lot. It would seem that the person turning right into the lot would have right of way to the far right entrance lane over someone turning left. However if a multilane entrance then the person turning left can do so into any lane. (here in NY left turners can chose their lane, right turners have to turn into the right most, unless it is effectively divided and lanes split off in different directions.
    
    Basically parking lots are lets all play along nicely area. If someone is in a hazardous position, I let them go to get out of that position.
    
    Even in road driving I will try to mitigate a hazard ( like someone going the wrong way ) by allowing them to correct the situation instead of insisting on my right of way.

So @DCnDC (DCnDC) replied

    Again, if you don't have the right to be there, how would you have the right of way?
    
    Vehicle Y not only doesn't have “right of way” going the wrong way, they are in blatant violation of the law.
    
    If what you're really asking is who _should_ get out of the way, I'd recommend whatever action gets Vehicle Y out of the active traffic fastest, just to mitigate the danger to everyone else that that asshole has caused.
    
    .

So @EasyPhil (EasyPhil) replied

    DCnDC:
    
    > Again, if you don't have the right to be there, how would you have the right of way?
    > 
    > Vehicle Y not only doesn't have “right of way” going the wrong way, they are in blatant violation of the law.
    > 
    > If what you're really asking is who _should_ get out of the way, I'd recommend whatever action gets Vehicle Y out of the active traffic fastest, just to mitigate the danger to everyone else that that asshole has caused.
    > 
    > .
    
    No, not asking who should get out of the way.
    
    From NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law:
    
    > § 1143. Vehicle entering roadway. The driver of a vehicle about to enter or cross a roadway from any place other than another roadway shall yield the right of way to all vehicles approaching on the roadway to be entered or crossed.
    
    To me this implies that the vehicle traveling the wrong way has right of way over a vehicle entering the roadway.

Then @Novelty_Bobble (Novelty Bobble) said

    How exactly is Y “travelling the wrong way”? are they travelling up the wrong side of the street before turning in? (in which case they are idiots) Have they pulled across the road as they try to get into the turning and blocked the traffic? (in which case they are idiots) or are they waiting on the other side of the road, blocking traffic behind them waiting to turn left at a place where that isn't permitted (in which case they are idiots). Or…finally, are they waiting on the other side of the road to turn left in a place specifically designed for that purpose.  
    In which case they are not idiots but they still don't have right of way. Whenever you cross traffic or go on the other side of the road for whatever reason then it is up to you to make sure it is safe to do so.
    
    In all the cases above the car in the wrong doesn't have right of way to perform the maneuver but, once they've made the mistake, it may be sensible to move your car to help them complete it, gesticulating wildly as you do so and fully expecting the idiot to give the universal “sorry…my bad” furrowed brow and apologetic wave.

@EasyPhil (EasyPhil) replied

    Wrong way = traveling north in a south bound lane, traveling east in a west bound lane.

Then @Malthus (Malthus) said

    Here lies Winsor McKay  
    Knew he had the right of way  
    His mind was keen, his will was strong  
    But he's just as dead as if he was wrong …

Then @CookingWithGas (CookingWithGas) said

    Car X must yield to car Y because car X is in a private parking lot and car Y is entering from the main roadway. It doesn't matter if car Y is speeding, wrong lane, drunk, or driving in reverse–X must yield.
    
    Car Y still deserves a ticket for going the wrong way. If there were a collision, car Y would very likely be cited and found to burkeanthony@example.com.
    
    Also note that in most states, the law does not grant right-of-way; it states who must *yield *right-of-way. This implies that even the car who is not required to yield must act reasonably to avoid a collision. Suppose two cars approach a 4-way stop from opposite directions at the same time. One car signals for a left turn and the other car is going straight. The car turning left is required to yield, however in this case he jumps into the intersection because the straight driver was a little slow. The straight driver gets pissed off, floors it, and T-bones the left-turning car. The left-turning car failed to yield the but the other car is likely to get the ticket.

@busterpickle (busterpickle) replied

    Doesn't sound right to burkeanthony@example.com. I'd think a sequence of events leading to an accident would have to be examined:
    
    > Car X must yield to car Y because car X is in a private parking lot and car Y is entering from the main roadway. It doesn't matter if car Y is speeding, wrong lane, drunk, or driving in reverse–X must yield.
    
    Really? I can be DUI/DWI, going the wrong way on a road, speeding, and because I turn into a parking lot as X was leaving and we get in an accident, it's X's fault? Seriously? Yeah, uh-huh. No.
    
    I forgot the legal term to the sequence of events leading to an event, IANAL, but I'm pretty sure these things would plant the responsibility on driver Y:  
    [ol]  
    [li]Driving the wrong way on the street[/li][li]Driving drunk[/li][li]Speeding[/li][/ol]
    
    I'd get a lawyer. I imagine one wouldn't require a very expensive one, just one that specializes in this sort of thing.

Then @CookingWithGas (CookingWithGas) said

    electronbee:
    
    > Really? I can be DUI/DWI, going the wrong way on a road, speeding, and because I turn into a parking lot as X was leaving and we get in an accident, it's X's fault? Seriously?
    
    That's not at all what I said and you obviously did not read my entire post.
    
    What I said is that according to statute, car X is required to yield. The only thing that matters with regard to who must yield is that X is in a private lot and Y is entering from the main roadway. No violation by Y relieves X of his obligation to yield. Note that the OP to which I was responding did not say anything about an accident, only about who is required to yield.
    
    I also said that if there were a collision car Y could also be cited and burkeanthony@example.com. This largely depends on what the judge thinks is the more egregious violation.

So @jz78817 (jz78817) replied

    CookingWithGas:
    
    > That's not at all what I said and you obviously did not read my entire post.
    > 
    > What I said is that according to statute, car X is required to yield. The only thing that matters with regard to who must yield is that X is in a private lot and Y is entering from the main roadway. No violation by Y relieves X of his obligation to yield. Note that the OP to which I was responding did not say anything about an accident, only about who is required to yield.
    > 
    > I also said that if there were a collision car Y could also be cited and burkeanthony@example.com. This largely depends on what the judge thinks is the more egregious violation.
    
    I don't know how things are where you live, but in Michigan “fault” isn't an all or nothing decision, and it's not up to the judge but the responding police officers. on a collision report, both listed parties can be assigned a “hazardous action” and cited. Car “X” would be cited for failure to yield right of way, and Car “Y” would be cited for its offenses (improper lane usage, OWI, or whatever the driver did.)

To which @CookingWithGas (CookingWithGas) replied

    jz78817:
    
    > I don't know how things are where you live, but in Michigan “fault” isn't an all or nothing decision, and it's not up to the judge but the responding police officers. on a collision report, both listed parties can be assigned a “hazardous action” and cited. Car “X” would be cited for failure to yield right of way, and Car “Y” would be cited for its offenses (improper lane usage, OWI, or whatever the driver did.)
    
    I agree that fault is not assigned all to one driver or the other, and in fact fault may not be assessed at all by the legal system. In some states, the only one who cares about “fault” is the insurance company. Yes, it's up to police officers as to who to cite, and both drivers can be cited.
    
    But to your main point, it's ultimately up to the judge whether to find cited drivers guilty.

So @ZonexandScout (ZonexandScout) replied

    kanicbird:
    
    > AFAIK Parking lots are not regulated as streets and those signs are not legally binding, so no right of way. .
    
    (shortened for clarity)
    
    This is NOT a safe assumption. Some states extend state traffic laws to any area accessible and open to the public. (There is usually a requirement that the signage conform to the state's requirements for size, color, visibility, etc.) In other states, the signs may not be enforceable as traffic control devices, but the police are enabled to enforce other restrictions against reckless or unsafe operation, DUI, and so forth on private property. An officer could cite a driver for unsafe operation if that person disregards a traffic control sign.
    
    It's not a safe gamble to just blow through a stop sign in a parking lot and assume that you can't get a ticket. Check your state laws.

After which, @Doug_K (Doug K.) added

    ZonexandScout:
    
    > (shortened for clarity)
    > 
    > This is NOT a safe assumption. Some states extend state traffic laws to any area accessible and open to the public. (There is usually a requirement that the signage conform to the state's requirements for size, color, visibility, etc.) In other states, the signs may not be enforceable as traffic control devices, but the police are enabled to enforce other restrictions against reckless or unsafe operation, DUI, and so forth on private property. An officer could cite a driver for unsafe operation if that person disregards a traffic control sign.
    > 
    > It's not a safe gamble to just blow through a stop sign in a parking lot and assume that you can't get a ticket. Check your state laws.
    
    Not even just states. Within a state traffic laws (well, ordinances) can vary by municipality.
    
    One common ordinance that catches a lot of people by surprise is generally called something like “using a private drive as a thorofare.” Essentially it's to stop people from cutting across parking lots to avoid stop signs/lights or circumvent no turn signs.

Then @Omar_Little (Omar Little) said

    Several years ago, I was exiting a parking lot and entering the roadway, turning left. There was a car traveling the wrong way in the near lane and struck me in the passenger side of my car as I was crossing that lane to turn left. The other vehicle was ticketed for traveling the wrong way.

So @Channing_Idaho_Banks (Channing Idaho Banks) replied

    I often see cars driving the wrong way, just in case anybody was wondering about any anecdotal evidence about wrong-way drivers.

Then @jz78817 (jz78817) said

    Channing_Idaho_Banks:
    
    > I often see cars driving the wrong way, just in case anybody was wondering about any anecdotal evidence about wrong-way drivers.
    
    huh? how do you know where they're going?

To which @wallewek (wallewek) replied

    As my dad used to say: “You could be right. Dead right.” Don't argue. Just get out of harm's way.
    
    I don't understand the point of this question. You expect a person who is already confused, to think clearly about right of way? What are the odds of that?

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