@deedee1212 (dee dee) posted a new topic, subject "How to determine calories?". It read:

   I don't know how to calculate how many calories are optimal for my maximum weight loss.

So @Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef) replied

    Hi deedee
    
    The recommendation is to NOT count calories.
    
    You need to count carbs and keep them under 20g per day.
    
    That's basically it

After which, @PaulL (May the blessing of bacon be always with you) added

    Instead of trying to calculate some caloric level to eat at, try keeping your carbohydrate intake under 20 g/day, and eating protein and fat to satiety. That way, you'll be working with your body's hormones, instead of against them.

After which, @CarlKeller (Carl Keller) added

    LCHF is simple. Keep your carbs low (20 is a solid limit), eat fat and moderate protein when you are hungry and try not to snack. The number or calories will be self-determined by your daily needs and the better your body adapts to using fat for fuel, the fewer calories you will need.
    
    Keto is carb restriction, not calorie restriction. One needs to develop a healthy relationship with one's hunger or weight will not be lost in a healhy manner. So make the correct food choices and the rest will start to take care of itself.

To which @Alecmcq (Alec) replied

    deedee1212:
    
    > I don't know how to calculate how many calories are optimal for my maximum weight loss
    
    Short term: zero  
    Long term: nobody knows, and it will vary every day. So just eat to satiety.

To which @Fred_Kaoud (Fast Freddy) replied

    Calories are meaningless. Controlling hormones is key.
    
    The sooner you realize this the better you will look.
    
    As already discussed, eat fat and meat until full - don't snack - try to IF - each time you eat you trigger insulin - the less you eat the better you can control this hormone and start burning fat as fuel.
    
    Limit carbs as low as possible, only veggies if desired.
    
    Your body and hormones will do the rest!

So @Rclause (Scott) replied

    When I changed from a calorie restricted WOE after I had gained back 30 of the 50 pounds I lost I was about to give up. I stumbled onto keto and really enjoyed that I didn't have to log meals or count calories (some do but I don't). I have no idea how many calories I eat daily and I do not restrict food at mealtime but I do restrict snacking. I only need to keep a mental tally of the carb content of my food. After awhile you just know how many carb are in your food. I can maintain my weight with ease now.

@deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    THANK YOU, I needed that.
    
    I've been looking and not finding… then you came to me.
    
    Good deal!
    [/code]
    [code]

After which, @deedee1212 (dee dee) added

    Thank you, I am slowing learning there are very few rules to LCHF…
    
    I will concentrate on feeding, and feeling, instead of fearing.
    
    Thanks again,
    [/code]
    [code]

After which, @deedee1212 (dee dee) added

    Thank you, I am so appreciative for your personal feedback, not just words on a page in a random article.
    
    With your help, I'm on my successful way!
    [/code]
    [code]

@deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Thank you, I appreciate your knowledge, and valuable input.
    [/code]
    [code]

So @deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Oh thank you, this answers a lot of questions I have!
    
    I appreciate your personal experience.
    [/code]
    [code]

@deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    This is awesome, thank you!
    
    I have learned so much just from this.
    
    I appreciate this very much!
    
    Freedom to eat & lose is now mine…
    [/code]
    [code]

So @PaulL (May the blessing of bacon be always with you) replied

    You are most welcome. A ketogenic diet is closer to the way our ancestors ate, before anyone had ever even heard of a calorie. If I had had to count calories and measure macros, I'd never have been able to eat this way. As it is, I'm 60 lbs. lighter, without counting a single calorie or doing a lick of exercise. The next 60 lbs. will be a different story, no doubt, but for now, I'm happy. Good luck!

To which @Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef) replied

    Thank you for being so thankful

After which, @deedee1212 (dee dee) added

    PaulL,
    
    You're awesome. Congratulations on your personal achievement.
    
    And to that end here, I appreciate your voice in my quest.
    
    I'm looking forward to the changes to come…
    [/code]
    [code]

After which, @deedee1212 (dee dee) added

    Okay, Fast Freddy, THANK YOU, your answer was astounding, and outstanding! I felt immediately woke
    
    when I read your reply. Effing Hormones? No one ever pointed that out. Now it's understandable!
    
    I'm feeling so much more confident.
    [/code]
    [code]

@deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Please, can I ask your advice re: no counting calories?
    
    I'm eating under 20 gr. carbs daily. Some days 12, some 16.  
    I drink up to 1 c. HWC in coffee, diet orange soda, diet root beer.  
    I mix HWC w/sugar-free Jell-O pudding mix. 1-oz. box dry mix = 8 gr. carbs.  
    (.25 oz. = 4 servings) 1 serving = 2 gr. carbs.
    
    I pudding daily = 2 gr.  
    1 c. (16 T.) heavy whipping cream (HWC) = 6.4 gr,.  
    12 green olives daily = 1.8 gr.  
    2 eggs daily = .8 gr.  
    8 oz. turkey breast daily = .4 gr.  
    4 T. mayonnaise = .4 gr.  
    4 T. butter  
    1 med. avocado = 2 gr.  
    2 slices American cheese = 1 gr.  
    2 oz. bleu cheese = 1.4 gr.  
    6 T. cream cheese = 3.6 gr.
    
    TOTAL = 16.2 gr.
    
    I relented to my curiosity after 5 days free of it, (apparently not!) stepped on a scale, shocked I was 6 lbs. heavier!! OMG! WTF? Do you think it's the cream?

So @deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    My bad, that totals 19.8 gr.

To which @KetoCancerMom (Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) replied

    My 4 cents 
    
    I would drop:  
    diet sodas, as the artificial sugars can do funky things.  
    American cheese (or at least sub in a real cheese)  
    Go easy on the HWC or find one that had a more pure ingredient list  
    Drop the sugar free puddings
    
    Consider fattier meats,  
    maybe some ranch dressing on the avacado
    
    Try to fill up on fats at meal time so you can avoid snacking.

@Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef) replied

    I agree with KetoCancerMom's recommendations.
    
    First - don't assume that weight = fat. Sometimes, as we lose fat, our bodies react by retaining more water in the fat cells actually increasing weight. Have you experienced a flush yet? This is where you lose a lot of water in a day.
    
    Second - some foods have hidden insulinogenic or inflammatory products. Diet soda can do this by triggering insulin, even without actual carbs. HWC in excess can also cause inflammation and slow things down.
    
    Third - eat real natural foods. Avoid processed foods like Jell-O pudding and american cheese.
    
    Fourth - don't eat lean meats like turkey breast. Eat fatty meats instead. You need to have enough fat in your diet to get to satiety and lean meats make that harder. Eggs are good. If you eat chicken, eat the thighs with the skin to get more fat.
    
    How are you eating 4 tablespoons of butter? On something? In something?

To which @KetoCancerMom (Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) replied

    @Karim_Wassef,
    
    Thanks for the more detailed explaination. I was on my phone and its rather tedious to make long posts

@deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Oh God, thank you! I will drop HWC as I like my coffee black also.  
    I will eliminate the Sugar Free Jell-O.  
    I will drink sparkling water in lieu of diet soda product.  
    I will trade turkey breast for chicken thighs which I love!  
    I promise to eat more chicken wings, poor me…  
    I will eat cheese, the whole cheese, and nothing but the cheese. LOL  
    I will eat more fat, keeping carbs under 20.  
    I appreciate the help, so very enthusiastic now that i'm woke.
    
    Thank you everyone who is helping me with this tried-and-true advice.

So @deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Thank you so very much for this invaluable information.  
    I eat melted butter on my heated turkey breast, which I'll switch out for fattier meats, chicken thighs, wings, etc.  
    Do I need to make homemade mayo? It's one of my favorite fats.  
    Handy to know about the diet drinks. There are so many sparkling waters with flavor essence, I will happily switch. I'm coming from a place where in my young life I was hammered, constantly criticized for my “problem”… the scale was my constant companion/enemy. It will be better if I don't use it.
    
    Thanks again for your sweet intentions toward my success.

After which, @KetoCancerMom (Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) added

    Don't be afraid of the chicken skin! Take some time at the grocery store to look at the nutrition info on meats, just to become familiar with them. For me, I have to find ways to add fat, so I'll drink coconut cream with some flavoring added.
    
    Homemade mayo isn't necessary, but do look at ingredients and find the “purest” mayo that you like.

To which @Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef) replied

    Same with eggs and bacon. Solid food!

To which @deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Oh boy, coconut cream? I have a can of it, relatively unknown to me, I planned to try it in coffee.
    
    I've never tried butter in coffee, either, but I'm open to trying both. Aside from that, which flavorings
    
    do you add please?
    
    Thank you for your experience. I'm learning every day…
    [/code]
    [code]

Then @deedee1212 (dee dee) said

    Eggs and Bacon…… aaaah, music to my taste buds.  
    Reminds me of my newly Keto-inspired favorite omelette now…  
    The flavors echo the colors…  
    Yellow Eggs  
    White Sharp cheddar  
    Pink Ham  
    Green onions, sliced  
    Red Tomato, diced  
    Black Olives, chopped  
    Orange Cheddar  
    SOUR CREAM & dill garnish. YUMMM!
    
    ~~>Please tell me if this is o.k. that I included this omelette or if there's a place I should be posting food ideas & questions? I'm a newbie/enthusiast, don't want  
    to step on toes.

So @KetoCancerMom (Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) replied

    I like both salted caramel or chocolate… Sometimes I do a mix of both

Then @deedee1212 (dee dee) said

    I'm grateful you answered but I'm not clear on…salted caramel or chocolate “what”? The only caramel I know is sugar. I'm not eating any sugar.

To which @KetoCancerMom (Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) replied

    Sorry, MCT 0il powder.  
    Although you might be able to add cooking extracts, like vanilla or Cherry, etc

To which @deedee1212 (dee dee) replied

    Whew! I like the sound of that, never heard of MCT Oil Powder.  
    New stuff every day from people who sound happy to help  
    who don't even know me… feeling the warmth & fuzzies here.
    [/code]
    [code]

Then @SlowBurnMary said

    And keep in mind that once you're 100% fat-adapted (which takes anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months or more to reach, depending on your history, health, and keto compliance) you may well be able to tolerate up to 75g or more total carbs per day.
    
    Meaning, handle generous portions of real foods such as fatty veggies, spices, pastured cream/cheeses, and modest amounts of berries or other low glycemic fruits, even treats like chocolate and/or modest amounts of wine.
    
    But don't even go there until you have all the signs of satiety and full fat adaptation - the healing of your leptin/ghrelin signalling.
    
    The Phase I of the keto diets (Atkins, Phinney & Volek) is supposed to create the foundation to help increase metabolic flex. The Protein Power LCHF/keto plan (a very well written book from the 1990s, I highly recommend it) by the Drs. Eades moves to a Phase II during the third week, and is more about staying on the ‘keto cusp'.
    
    And always remember you can use the search bar in the upper right hand corner of the forum to run searches on any food item or topic - any time of day or night!

To which @damgal (Carol) replied

    @deedee1212, I love mayo also but I'm super particular about it. I use this recipe and do not allow myself to eat it straight out of the jar. 
    
    Tastes Lovely – 29 Jun 17
    
    ### Easiest 3 Minute Homemade Mayonnaise (Paleo, Whole30)
    
    The easiest 3 minute homemade paleo and Whole30 mayonnaise recipe, made in a mason jar with a hand immersion blender. This paleo and Whole30 approved mayo is guaranteed to turn out perfect every time, it

To which @Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef) replied

    I use avocado oil or EVOO mayo - off the shelf.

After which, @Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef) added

    You know. We've all been through hell with this thing. There's a comradery in suffering through an ordeal and it creates a unique kinship with others who have or are enduring the same.
    
    We care and we know how potent the enemy is. It's the corrupt food industry with the cereal and seed oil profiteers who know they're causing diabetes and cancer but do it anyway. It's the corrupt pharmaceutical who need us sick and diseased so they can cash in on our lives. They likewise know the ill they cause and they trick doctors who don't spend the time or effort to find the truth. It's the exercise industry that perpetuates the “you're lazy so it's your fault” mentality.
    
    We're in this together and the forces arrayed against us are legion…

Then @Happyheart (Wendy) said

    I know you already got good answers but I was just spending some time at the Diet doctor. Com site watching various videos and watched one by Zoe Harcomb on How to combat conventional dietary advice. It had great information on calories and how we got the measurement and that the numbers are So inaccurate. Not sure I can share a link here to there but if anyone is interested is worth a watch. There were several interesting myths busted on it.

After which, @deedee1212 (dee dee) added

    Wise words, received well here. We have to care because they don't have to.
    
    What are THEY eating? Don't they drink the same water, eat the poisoned food sources, breathe the putrid air?
    
    I've heard potato farmers say they don't eat from the comercial crop. They grow separately for their family's
    
    consumption. THAT told me EVERYTHING!
    
    Thanks,
    [/code]
    [code]


{'source': 'discourse', 'url': 'https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/how-to-determine-calories/86342', 'title': 'How to determine calories?', 'views': 883, 'has_accepted_answer': False, 'word_count': 2198, 'like_count': 64, 'reply_count': 21, 'participant_count': 11, 'posts': 38, 'tags': '', 'author': '@deedee1212 (dee dee)', 'participants': '@deedee1212 (dee dee), @Karim_Wassef (Karim Wassef), @PaulL (May the blessing of bacon be always with you), @CarlKeller (Carl Keller), @Alecmcq (Alec), @Fred_Kaoud (Fast Freddy), @Rclause (Scott), @KetoCancerMom (Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)), @SlowBurnMary, @damgal (Carol), @Happyheart (Wendy)', 'image_url': '', 'created_at': '2019-05-15T04:11:40.848Z', 'last_posted_at': '2019-05-26T03:20:55.000Z'}