@Emofkuniv (Emofkuniv) posted a new topic, subject "Do girls find guys being "nice" off putting?". It read:

   Ok, this is my quandry. I have been told recently by a girl that I really like that I am “too nice for her”. To say the least, this kind of knocked me back a step or three. The girl in question has a “history”, (of which I will not talk about so dont ask:) ). Her comment related to her past, in the respect that "I didnt want a girl like her " as a girlfriend. To clarify the situation we were in at the time by the way, she had previously suggested that we go away for a weekend, which we did, and this conversation took place in bed in a hotel in Ireland. And no, nothing happened, if thats not tmi, we feel asleep together is all. I didnt know about her past previously, and to be honest it didnt make me feel any different about her in any way when she told me. So, on my return to the normal world, I asked a couple of female work colleagues about this' nice 'thing. Can a man be too nice? To my surprise, they both said yes. This I dont understand. To clarify, once again, my definition of nice in the respect of women is opening doors, helping on with coats, walking on the outside on pavements (one of my colleagues told me this is creepy!), paying the bill in restaurants (though if offered I can be bought dinner), being attentive (but not cloyingly so), trying my best to be a good companion. I guess you can say that it is old fashioned chivaly. Perhaps thats the problem? Is being kind and attentive to a lady really that much of an anachronism these days? By the way, let me make my self clear, if it sounds like I want to women to be somekind of second class citizens, where men do everything in a relationship then that is NOT what I mean. I want a partner, not a plaything. So, your comments please…

After which, @CanvasShoes (CanvasShoes) added

    Hmmmmmmmm, she got you all the way into bed, and THERE was where she told you you were “too nice”?
    
    Okay, I'm just one girl, but here's my take.
    
    She's either:
    
    Used to be manhandled, and likes it rough and has had it rough with a LOT of men (hence her “you don't want a girl like me” comment) OR…
    
    She was in bed with you and expected a MOVE on your part for crying out loud!!!
    
    Okay, I don't want to be smacked around or anything, but a man who is hot enough for me that, when we're alone together finally (and it's mutual), if he TAKES what he wants, starts kissing me, some talented foreplay etc etc.
    
    Well, heck, if he just was there, and didn't make a move, I'd probably say he was “too nice” too.
    
    As to your chivalry, Manda Jo has a really nice statement on that in “teemings” that might answer your question regarding opening doors etc.
    
    But as a short answer, some girls like it, some don't. As to your wanting a relationship? Perhaps you are making the same mistake some of we women make, that of being TOO eager and ready to commit. I don't know. But that's not always related to being “too nice”.
    
    Hope that helps.

After which, @MandaJo (Manda JO) added

    > As to your chivalry, Manda Jo has a really nice statement on that in “teemings” that might answer your question regarding opening doors etc.
    
    Wow–thanks for the plug–I'll one up you and include a link:
    
    http://www.teemings.com/issue15/mandajo.html
    
    The other thing about the “your to nice for me” line: it's a good line to use when turning someone down: I mean, let's day there's this beautiful woman who you really, realy liek and admire, but frankly, she's obsessed with her little chihuahua friends and you don't like her enough to take on the whole crew–and you unerstand that they come as a package. If you say " I won't date you because of oyur dogs", you're an asshole: she hears “your dogs or me, baby!”. If you say something like “you intimidate me” or “you're too smart” or “you make too much money” or “you're too nice”, the theory is that that allows you to get out of the potential relationship with everyone's dignity intact.
    
    I actuallyhave a LOT more to say. but I'm writing a teemings collumn about nice guys at thie very moment, and you will have to wait and check it out!

@Honeydew_1 (Honeydew) replied

    A man too nice?? Not in my opinion no… I would KILL for a man who'd be too nice to me in the way you said. I didn't think any existed… they for sure don't seem to exist round here (either that or I need new deordorant  )…
    
    A man's who's “too nice” … wow, there's a concept that kinda blows my mind… I would think I'd died and gone to heaven if I ever met a guy like that.
    
    And that is my honest to God, 100% honest answer.

So @scr4 (scr4) replied

    I think some people don't understand the difference between being nice and being passive. When I try to be nice (which is my natural inclination) I end up peing passive and unassertive, which nobody finds attractive. I still haven't learned how to be assertive and nice.

Then @Tir_Tinuviel (Tir Tinuviel) said

    **Manda JO** , just read your article, nicely written. 
    
    I know **Evofkuniv** in real life, he's a very close friend of mine, and he most certainly is _courteous_ as you describe it in your article, he's also _chivalrous_ but not to the degree you mention in your article, as he stated in the OP, he's quite happy for a woman to buy him dinner if she wants to.
    
    He acts the same way towards me as he does towards any woman, and there is no chance of me recipocating with sex, it's just simply not a part of our relationship. Likewise he doesn't expect any other girlie to spread her legs for him just cos he opened the door. He acts in a similar way with men - to a degree - if he was to pull a chair out for another bloke he'd get a funny look! 
    
    Personally I don't think it is possible for a man to be “too nice”. Although, yes, as **CanvasShoes** pointed out, sometimes I just want to be thrown to the bed and shagged senseless. But this isn't really about sex.
    
    I _love_ the chivalry thing, mainly because it _does_ emphasise the differences between men and women. I'm not expecting my blokey to pay for everything for me, or lay his coat over a puddle, but the fact that he would makes me feel squeee.  
    I'm independent, but I love the feeling that my man acting chivalrously brings. It makes me feel like he's constantly thinking of me and concerned for my comfort. And that's a very flattering and reassuring feeling.  
    YMMV

Then @Emofkuniv (Emofkuniv) said

    Many thanks for your replies. Manda Jo, I have read your atricle in Teemings, which I found very interesting, and have replied to the same, as to taking on somebody with baggage intact, my way of thinking is that if you like somebody enough you take on everything about them, regardless. Who am I to be judgemental? I am not perfect, so therefore cannot and will not criticize others. Honeydew, your words brought cheer to my heart. scr4, I maybe nice, but I certainly wouldnt call myself passive, restrained maybe, but ever knowingly passive.

To which @Emofkuniv (Emofkuniv) replied

    Tir, love you. Owe you a pint!

To which @Tir_Tinuviel (Tir Tinuviel) replied

    See ya down the Abilon later then! 
    
    I'll text you when I'm on my way, so you can hover by the door to open it for me, ok?   
    /// !!SNIKT!! \\\

So @MandaJo (Manda JO) replied

    > s to taking on somebody with baggage intact, my way of thinking is that if you like somebody enough you take on everything about them, regardless.
    
    But what if you **don't** like them enough? There's nothing wrong with just not liking someone enough to accept everything about them: if my husband had been stupic (instead of brilliant), I wouldn't have liked him enough to put up wiht all his downides (which we all have) and would have turned him down very quickly in the relationship. THat wouldn't have made me a bad person.

To which @Scarlett67 (Scarlett67) replied

    I am so reminded of my very first date. I was 18 years old (late bloomer), and this guy had done the old “pretend to lose a bet, loser buys winner dinner” bit, which I fell for. He was VERY sweet and solicitous, and I remember the evening fondly. But in my miond, “nothing but niceness” = “boring.” He would have driven me nuts in the long term. I hope he found some equally nice girl to be with. That just wasn't me.

After which, @ParentalAdvisory (ParentalAdvisory) added

    The opposite of nice is mean right? This is what nice guys think of when there told they're too nice. And you wonder why we/they think like that.
    
    “So if i'm too nice, I should be mean?”
    
    This is where the assumption that girls only want dick heads and assholes.
    
    How does one learn to be in the middle, sort of a nice prick?
    
    “I'll get the check honey, but on the way, expect the door to be slammed in your face!”

To which @John_Carter_of_Mars (John Carter of Mars) replied

    By **Emofkuniv** :"To clarify the situation we were in at the time by the way, she had previously suggested that we go away for a weekend, which we did, and this conversation took place in bed in a hotel in Ireland. **And no, nothing happened, if thats not tmi, we feel asleep together is all.** <snip>, (Bolding mine.)
    
    This wasn't “too nice”. In this case you didn't give her what she wanted from the weekend that _she_ suggested. If a girl goes with you on a weekend holiday, she pretty much expects that there will be sex involved. You didn't provide it, and she's movin' on. IMHO, of course.

After which, @Tir_Tinuviel (Tir Tinuviel) added

    **John Carter** ,
    
    I know what you mean, but this girlie is also a friend of mine, and she didn't suggest the weekend so she'd get a shag out of it. She tends to give out ‘signals' without realising it, which is why **Emofkuniv** didn't try anything on.
    
    [sub](I should point out that neither **Emofkuniv** or the girlie are inexperienced teenagers, although that might be the impression coming across in this thread!)[/sub]

Then @Doomtrain (Doomtrain) said

    In my experience, girls who tell you you're “too nice” are ones you don't want to be with anyway.
    
    Yes, I've gotten that line used on me. My thought, “So I should be an asshole?”

To which @bibbouk (bibbouk) replied

    I dont think girls find nice guys a put off it's just that nice guys rarely have the 2 qualities that girls really go for which is being bold and confident.
    
    Women really go for guys with confidence, unfortunately most guys who are really confident and sure of themselves and also idiots. Corrispondingly most of the really nice guys aren't as bold or confident when approaching women.

So @ParentalAdvisory (ParentalAdvisory) replied

    > *Originally posted by bibbouk *  
    >  **I dont think girls find nice guys a put off it's just that nice guys rarely have the 2 qualities that girls really go for which is being bold and confident.
    > 
    > Women really go for guys with confidence, unfortunately most guys who are really confident and sure of themselves and also idiots. Corrispondingly most of the really nice guys aren't as bold or confident when approaching women. **
    
    What a lot of women I think misunderstand about some guys is that we may not be bold and confident around you at first, but you just can't get rid of us after a few days and say that we're not bold and confident. I am very bold and confident around friends and at work, but it takes time with women. Hell it's like that for everybody I meet. I am very shy and it is going to take a while before I tell you everything about me and who I am and what I've done. _It's called getting to know someone, it takes different lengths of time for everybody._

To which @handy (handy) replied

    "…opening doors, helping on with coats, walking on the outside on pavements (one of my colleagues told me this is creepy!), paying the bill in restaurants (though if offered I can be bought dinner),''  
    That sounds a bit old fashioned in my opinion. Some women these days like to be thought of as independent & like to do this stuff for themselves & in some special cases, do them for the guy (I get this alot)…
    
    You should ask her what she wants. There was a time women were dependent & a time they went independent (60s?) & you gotta figure out which one she belongs to.

@shrew (shrew) replied

    I wouldn't be caught dead with a man who wasn't nice.

To which @John_Carter_of_Mars (John Carter of Mars) replied

    **Tir Tinuval** : Point taken. They do sound very young, or at least inexperienced. It's hard to tell the exact situation without knowing the parties involved.
    
    Still, the OP does indicate that he has a romantic interest in this girl. I have a hard time grasping the concept of going out of town with a person you're interested in, sharing a hotel room and bed, and not thinking that sex is an expected, or at least possible, result.
    
    So you don't think the “Too Nice” card is being played because the OP didn't show any interest in becoming intimate with her? Maybe if he'd been just the slightest bit forward, kissed her or something, she'd have responded in kind? Then they'd have had a fine rewarding weekend and the “Nice-guy loser” tag wouldn't have been hung on him?
    
    To some others: Speaking in general terms, part of being “nice” is recognizing when a female companion is ready to have the relationship move to another level. I don't think the difficulty experienced by the OP has anything to do with courtesy, politeness, or holding doors for her.

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