@BrainGlutton (BrainGlutton) posted a new topic, subject "Is shaving unhealthy?". It read:

   This article by a doctor sets out reasons why shaving pubic hair is unhealthy, some of them having to do with “microscopic wounds.” It got me to thinking – what about other parts of the body people sometimes shave – men's faces, women's armpits, women's legs – should they all be left unshaven? Is there no healthy use for a razor?

Then @vomit_comet (vomit_comet) said

    Aren't they all technically ‘pubic hair'?

To which @jz78817 (jz78817) replied

    BrainGlutton:
    
    > This article by a doctor
    
    being a doctor does not mean one knows everything there is to know about the human body. I'm an engineer, but my expertise is in automotive and acoustics, and I wouldn't dare claim I know how to design a suspension bridge. sadly, far too many people have no idea how to stay in their own lane.
    
    > sets out reasons why shaving pubic hair is unhealthy, some of them having to do with “microscopic wounds.”
    
    “microscopic wounds” translates to “shit I can't prove but sounds plausible and supports my point of view.”
    
    > It got me to thinking – what about other parts of the body people sometimes shave – men's faces, women's armpits, women's legs – should they all be left unshaven? Is there no healthy use for a razor?
    
    when most of us die due to accidental trauma, heart disease, cancers, etc. worrying about razor burn is fucking stupid. Oh, and from your link:
    
    "Pubic hair does have a purpose, providing cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury and offering protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. "
    
    apparently people only need that protection after about age 12 or so.
    
    these people are loony. Period.

So @friedo (friedo) replied

    Of all the things that could potentially be dangerous to people, this seems pretty low on the list. Humans of various cultures have been shaving their body hair pretty much since we invented knives, with little apparent ill effect.

@Broomstick (Broomstick) replied

    It is true that surgeons have stopped shaving their patients nearly as much as they used to.
    
    It is true that shaving can cause irritation (hence, all the soothing after shaving preparations sold OTC) or wounds of one degree or another (hence dabs of tissue, styptic pencils, and the like). Same for other methods of hair removal.
    
    That said, I think the “don't have at all” position can be as extreme as the “eliminate every hair forever” position.
    
    As for the getting by without public hair “protection” until age 12 - puberty is when you start rubbing your bits against other peoples' bits, so it makes some sense that's when you'd need the extra, um, “protection”.
    
    Is shaving unhealthy? Yes, if you _do it to excess_ or in an unsanitary manner.

@jz78817 (jz78817) replied

    Broomstick:
    
    > As for the getting by without public hair “protection” until age 12 - puberty is when you start rubbing your bits against other peoples' bits, so it makes some sense that's when you'd need the extra, um, “protection”.
    
    but that's not what they were talking about.

@Ambivalid (Ambivalid) replied

    Shaving exfoliates the skin. If anything, it's _healthy_.

To which @don_t_ask (don't ask) replied

    jz78817:
    
    > “microscopic wounds” translates to “shit I can't prove but sounds plausible and supports my point of view.”
    
    Not so much. There have been calls to stop pre operative shaving for at least 30 years for this very reason.
    
    For example:
    
    THE DOCTOR'S WORLD; SHAVING AREA OF OPERATION NOW SEEMS DANGEROUS fom June 1983, _The New York Times_ quoting _The Lancet_
    
    > Studies with scanning electron microscopes show that a razor shave by even skilled hands produces nicks, invisible to the naked eye, that can provide entry points for microorganisms, providing a focus of infection that may begin before the incision is made. Even electric razors can do the same. Intact skin acts as a mechanical barrier to the entry of such germs.

@grude (grude) replied

    If I shavd with a blade, or use a very close electric shaver on my face I get horrible infected bumps and ingrown hairs. I could see that getting dangerous for someone with a depressed immune system.
    
    I have to use a shaver intended for head hair cutting with a short guard that prevents it from touching my face.

Then @The_Second_Stone (The Second Stone) said

    Ambivalid:
    
    > Shaving exfoliates the skin. If anything, it's _healthy_.
    
    What? Humans do not shed their skins. You're thinking snakes and scorpions. And lawyers.

After which, @Ambivalid (Ambivalid) added

    The_Second_Stone:
    
    > What? Humans do not shed their skins.
    
    Sure they do. Many a woman shave their faces as a ‘beauty enhancement' (but it's called “dermaplaning” instead of shaving).

@Max_the_Immortal (Max the Immortal) replied

    Ambivalid:
    
    > Sure they do. Many a woman shave their faces as a ‘beauty enhancement' (but it's called “dermaplaning” instead of shaving).
    
    Is that healthy? Or just harmless?

After which, @Broomstick (Broomstick) added

    It's unnecessary, strictly speaking. There's nothing unhealthy about skin that shows its age, has wrinkles, etc.
    
    “Dermaplaning” can be done in a relatively safe manner, but it's not as absolutely safe as not dermaplaning. For healthy people with intact immune systems, though, and some grasp of basic hygiene the risk is minimal.

So @DSeid (DSeid) replied

    Ambivalid:
    
    > Shaving exfoliates the skin. If anything, it's _healthy_.
    
    No offense Ambi but that is silly.
    
    FWIW I actually did have one teen aged girl patient who developed abscesses from pubic shaving that needed pretty extensive incision and drainage. The first time didn't stop her from continuing the habit and she ended up having it happen recurrently. No immunocompromised state.
    
    Something else to consider - anal sex spreads diseases like AIDS much more easily than penile vaginal sex - why? The thought is because anal sex is associated with small tears hence not just mucosal contact but direct to bloodstream contact. Sex soon after shaving when the skin does have those very small tears may replicate that circumstance.
    
    That said I am with **freido** \- pretty dang low on the list.
    
    It does raise the related question though - evolutionarily why has post-pubertal pubic and axillary hair and male facial hair been selected for in humans?
    
    I have read, somewhere once upon a time, the speculation that pubic and axillary hair may serve to wick out compounds that serve as pheromones, helping them become just a bit more airborne. FWIW.

@pool (pool) replied

    I know a lot of black men can't shave their face everyday or they'll get an insane amount of ingrown hairs, back when I was in the Army some guys would get profiles so they didn't have to shave as rigorously.  
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudofolliculitis_barbae

To which @wmnpwr (wmnpwr) replied

    I read about a study that found a correlation with women shaving armpits, then using deodorant, and an increased incidence of breat cancer. Study compared US women with European populations of women who used deodorant but did not shave. The theory was that the commercial deodorants contain ingredients that are linked to cancer, and are more easily absorbed into the body and into the lymph nodes under the arm pits of freshly shaven skin. I'm not citing the study because it hasn't been replicated and most breast cancer organizations say a connection is unlikely. So it may not be true, but if it were, that would be an argument that shaving is unhealthy.

After which, @Freudian_Slit (Freudian Slit) added

    jz78817:
    
    > but that's not what they were talking about.
    
    jz78817:
    
    > "Pubic hair does have a purpose, providing cushion against friction that can cause skin abrasion and injury and offering protection from bacteria and other unwanted pathogens. "
    
    It sure sounds like it…

So @Ambivalid (Ambivalid) replied

    DSeid:
    
    > No offense Ambi but that is silly
    
    How so? Are you saying that shaving does _not_ technically exfoliate the skin? I'd post links but I don't know how on my phone.

So @hajario (hajario) replied

    wmnpwr:
    
    > I read about a study that found a correlation with women shaving armpits, then using deodorant, and an increased incidence of breat cancer. Study compared US women with European populations of women who used deodorant but did not shave. The theory was that the commercial deodorants contain ingredients that are linked to cancer, and are more easily absorbed into the body and into the lymph nodes under the arm pits of freshly shaven skin. I'm not citing the study because it hasn't been replicated and most breast cancer organizations say a connection is unlikely. So it may not be true, but if it were, that would be an argument that shaving is unhealthy.
    
    That claim is about antiperspirant, not deodorant.

To which @DSeid (DSeid) replied

    Ambivalid:
    
    > How so? Are you saying that shaving does _not_ technically exfoliate the skin? I'd post links but I don't know how on my phone.
    
    No, I am saying that the idea that “exfoliating the skin” is something that is “healthy” is silly fluff you read in beauty magazines and that gets sold by spa services including medical cosmetic services. Maybe there is some short term cosmetic benefit of getting some superficial dead cells off the surface (I hear snake oil is also a marvelous moisturizer) producing a “brighter complexion” but “healthy”?
    
    You want exfoliation get yourself Staphylococcal Scalded Skin Syndrome; that'll exfoliate you fine.

Then @GIGObuster (GIGObuster) said

    FWIW there is the item that it can be healthy when one considers that lice and crabs are losing their natural habitat. 
    
    livescience.com – 14 Jan 13
    
    ### Endangered Species? Bikini Waxes Wiping Out Pubic Lice
    
    > Pubic lice have plagued mankind for thousands of years, but the itchy pests are now facing a enemy that threatens to wipe them out: bikini waxing.
    > 
    > Also known as crab lice, the tiny insects lay their eggs on pubic hair. But as Brazilian waxes and other hair-removal procedures become more common among men and women, the bugs' breeding cycle is interrupted, and populations are now plunging as low as bikini briefs themselves.
    > 
    > “The ‘habitat destruction' of the pubic lice is increasing and they are becoming an endangered species,” Janet Wilson, a consultant in sexual health, told Bloomberg News.
    
    I remember reading other articles on how biologists are using the disappearance and appearance of the types of lice as markers for humans developing hairlessness and how changes in grooming behavior like shaving is affecting the evolution of parasites and humans.

Then @Hari_Seldon (Hari Seldon ) said

    Anecdotal evidence. I stopped shaving 50 years ago and I'm still alive. So there.
    
    I hated shaving and always wound up with bloody cuts (not microcuts). I bought the best blades available then and used them only once. Electric razors were brutal. When I started going to a barber for a beard trim, he complained that my beard hairs were like little wires and left his scissors dull. The thought of shaving my pubic area gives me the willies.

So @DingoelGringo (DingoelGringo) replied

    DSeid:
    
    > No offense Ambi but that is silly.
    > 
    > FWIW I actually did have one teen aged girl patient who developed abscesses from pubic shaving that needed pretty extensive incision and drainage. The first time didn't stop her from continuing the habit and she ended up having it happen recurrently. No immunocompromised state.
    > 
    > Something else to consider - anal sex spreads diseases like AIDS much more easily than penile vaginal sex - why? The thought is because anal sex is associated with small tears hence not just mucosal contact but direct to bloodstream contact. Sex soon after shaving when the skin does have those very small tears may replicate that circumstance.
    > 
    > That said I am with **freido** \- pretty dang low on the list.
    > 
    > It does raise the related question though - evolutionarily why has post-pubertal pubic and axillary hair and male facial hair been selected for in humans?  
    >  **  
    >  I have read, somewhere once upon a time, the speculation that pubic and axillary hair may serve to wick out compounds that serve as pheromones, helping them become just a bit more airborne**. FWIW.
    
    That would sound more valid if people ran around naked.

After which, @DSeid (DSeid) added

    DingoelGringo:
    
    > That would sound more valid if people ran around naked.
    
    Given that I can consciously smell the B.O. of someone fully clothed the concept that loosely dressed Paleolithic humans could subconsciously respond to chemical triggers wafting from each others' pubic areas and armpits when close to each other seems reasonable. Not proof it occured or occurs mind you.

After which, @Ambivalid (Ambivalid) added

    DSeid:
    
    > No, I am saying that the idea that “exfoliating the skin” is something that is “healthy” is silly fluff you read in beauty magazines and that gets sold by spa services including medical cosmetic services. Maybe there is some short term cosmetic benefit of getting some superficial dead cells off the surface (I hear snake oil is also a marvelous moisturizer) producing a “brighter complexion” but “healthy”?
    > 
    > You want exfoliation get yourself Staphylococcal Scalded Skin Syndrome; that'll exfoliate you fine.
    
    Ok, fine. The thrust of my original comment was not that exfoliation is healthy; I honestly don't knowmuch about it. The gist of my comment was simply that shaving _does_ exfoliate the skin. I always just kind of assumed it was a good thing. :o

So @Senegoid (Senegoid) replied

    Exfoliation sounds good if you're deciduous. I wouldn't advise an evergreen to try it.

@CookingWithGas (CookingWithGas) replied

    I had a dermatologist (with a beard) who told me that shaving is bad for the skin on the face. He did not elaborate as to why. I have been shaving for over 40 years and my skin looks pretty normal.
    
    Electric razor instructions tell you it takes a couple of weeks before you get the best shave after switching from a regular blade. I have read this has to do with scar tissue healing. I do not have any firsthand knowledge of whether shaving with a blade in fact creates scar tissue, or that it would heal in two weeks.

To which @Random_Design (Random Design) replied

    DingoelGringo:
    
    > That would sound more valid if people ran around naked.
    
    It sounds fine if you consider the time scale for selective evolutionary pressure to work.

To which @Squink (Squink) replied

    5 Men Who Died from Shaving.

So @Omar_Little (Omar Little) replied

    The_Second_Stone:
    
    > Humans do not shed their skins.
    
    Uh, yeah! Where do you think a lot of your household dust comes from? Our bodies are constantly shedding dead skin cells. One estimate is that it takes roughly 27 days for us to shed a complete layer of skin.

So @DrCube (DrCube) replied

    CookingWithGas:
    
    > I had a dermatologist (with a beard) who told me that shaving is bad for the skin on the face. He did not elaborate as to why. I have been shaving for over 40 years and my skin looks pretty normal.
    
    Shaving technology – despite marketers trying to repackage it in a million different ways over the past century – hasn't really progressed beyond scraping your skin with a sharp rock. I don't think it's significantly _dangerous_ , but I can't imagine it's all that good for you either. I can imagine a dermatologist being mildly opposed to unnecessary self-inflicted procedures which cause tiny cuts at best and large, bleeding anthony76@example.net.
    
    That said, despite my personal belief that shaving is unnecessary and often uncomfortable, I wouldn't go so far as to call it unhealthy. “Bad for your skin”? In the same way winter dryness is. Nothing you can't manage with some topical ointments, but not good for you, either. But I never understood what exfoliation was all about either.

So @Nelson_Pike (Nelson Pike) replied

    There must be billions of male beard shaves _per day_ with no medical consequences, so may we please drop them completely from the discussion? (I caught the part about Blacks being predisposed to ingrown hairs, but I have by now looked at millions of male Black faces from all over the world in person and in the media, and nowhere near 1% have had full beards, so I think the sample is representative).
    
    As for female leg and p _ssy shaves they have been going on to the tune of billions too (maybe not per day, but how about per year?) since they became fashionable (relatively recently for the p_ ssy), and likewise with the disappearingly infrequent medicals.
    
    That tells me its OK to shave, shave and shave away, most anywhere you wanna shave, as long as you are not ridiculously careless about it.

To which @BrainGlutton (BrainGlutton) replied

    DrCube:
    
    > Shaving technology – despite marketers trying to repackage it in a million different ways over the past century – hasn't really progressed beyond scraping your skin with a sharp rock. I don't think it's significantly _dangerous_ , but I can't imagine it's all that good for you either. I can imagine a dermatologist being mildly opposed to unnecessary self-inflicted procedures which cause tiny cuts at best and large, bleeding anthony76@example.net.
    
    Would it be healthier, then, I wonder, to pluck out the hairs with tweezers? Or to wax? Or use Nair?

So @bump (bump) replied

    BrainGlutton:
    
    > Or to wax? Or use Nair?
    
    As a man who's had his back Naired and waxed a time or two (wife was embarrassed about my luxurious pelt when we were going tubing), I'll say that compared to either of those processes, shaving sure seems like it's less traumatic.

After which, @Broomstick (Broomstick) added

    All means of hair removal carry some sort of risk or side effect. You sort of have to just choose the less of the evils.


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