From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Thu May 01 01:53:22 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 95549 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 70032 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 01:53:22 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 69992 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 01:53:22 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 69981 invoked by uid 99); 1 May 2008 01:53:22 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:53:22 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OIMO,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 01:52:30 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from mail.devtech.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 40 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Noel J. Bergman" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: RE: Extract Modred Library [WAS Re: compile 2.3.1] Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:55 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > Noel advocated deletion in another thread After some years of resisting removing it. :-) > I tend to be conservative about backwards compatibility. So I would > tend to move the source into somewhere like legacy. Wouldn't take much > to cut a release or could just ask users to build their own. I have been testing the replacement for a long time, and it is a drop-in replacement. Anyone who still finds some reason to use mordred can download the code and do their own build, *OR* explain to us why we should still maintain mordred. --- Noel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Thu May 01 01:53:22 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 95589 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 69769 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 69740 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 69726 invoked by uid 99); 1 May 2008 01:53:21 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:53:21 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OIMO,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 01:52:29 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from mail.devtech.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 40 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Noel J. Bergman" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: RE: compile 2.3.1 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:54 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Stefano Bagnara wrote: > Noel J. Bergman ha scritto: > > Probably, with the newest versions of Java. Mordred is deprecated, and > > since I don't see any reason to update mordred, it will be removed as soon > > as I can start work on the new stable branch. > I created JIRA-605 (http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-605) to > remove mordred and you replied that you was ok with deprecating it but > not removing. It is 1.5 years ago As I recall, Serge and I were the ones who did the work to get DBCP into JAMES in the first place, and after some years of running DBCP, processing over 1 million connections per day, I am satisfied that we don't need mordred as a backup plan anymore, so it is not worth maintaining. Remember: if we cannot provide a stable, reliable, production quality mail server, every feature, bell and whistle is worthless. --- Noel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Thu May 01 02:22:53 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 5110 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 02:22:53 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 1 May 2008 02:22:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 81501 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 02:22:54 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 81465 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 02:22:54 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 81454 invoked by uid 99); 1 May 2008 02:22:54 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:22:54 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of rachelsimmons@example.net designates 83.161.120.155 as permitted sender) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 02:22:09 +0000 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c34so206129anc.78 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:22:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PTQJCCkphXvTAOylQZrDV+hi2tr6lzrW7+0muNrcq94=; b=shA5PaNE37mppgKiNtI1hfqvJ8Tn6w4NIQYdwuqGL8AhLh2R7iHk7wQ/f/7G9mu04/djhGf+0MGE4kPeNP0LpheXT++LYYoyiOy7IGtor7oYgpIHuljR/3+WADB5tTBrORzf8M7qfjP347VIQ5fKyCL7gwKFBVpSV/a/UCFf3bI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rwR3jTvYj08o7BXmlvS+IDsr/vGuXB73gao2jWnjwgFCV4QcF4M+j+GvT0Ed6eRmVpFhTjP41xuyiPFB1YmmEBfwrIGte43AORCTZcAZEkQYbqN0eUgdeIMUQaZZ1TVTUiesBN78gkRNItTWKFI/08jVEG6joR5hCBmTEv1o9i8= Received: by 83.161.120.155 with SMTP id p20mr2364095anh.153.1209608542589; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?83.161.120.155? 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([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 339 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Thu, 1 May 2008 03:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 03:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Sender: rachelsimmons@example.net To: JAMES Server Development <rachelsimmons@example.net> From: JAMES Nightly Build System <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: JAMES Server Nightly Build Report X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org An automated nightly build of JAMES has been posted to http://people.apache.org/builds/james/nightly/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Any unit test errors from the build should be reported below: -------------------------------------------------------------------- BUILD SUCCESSFUL Total time: 12 minutes 44 seconds -------------------------------------------------------------------- Done. Packages Will Be Uploaded To The Nightly Repository. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please review http://people.apache.org/builds/james/nightly/BUILD.log. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Thu May 01 13:38:06 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 40582 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 13:38:06 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 1 May 2008 13:38:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 14696 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 13:38:07 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 14669 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 13:38:07 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 14658 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 13:38:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 14655 invoked by uid 99); 1 May 2008 13:38:07 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 06:38:07 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2000.0 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO eris.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 13:37:30 +0000 Received: by eris.apache.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 13C6A23889FF; Thu, 1 May 2008 06:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: svn commit: r652517 - in /james/server/trunk: jcr-backend-function/pom.xml pom.xml Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 13:37:44 -0000 To: rachelsimmons@example.net From: rachelsimmons@example.net X-Mailer: svnmailer-1.0.8 Message-Id: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Author: bago Date: Thu May 1 06:37:44 2008 New Revision: 652517 URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=652517&view=rev Log: Enable module and fix jcr-backend-function m2 descriptors Modified: james/server/trunk/jcr-backend-function/pom.xml james/server/trunk/pom.xml Modified: james/server/trunk/jcr-backend-function/pom.xml URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/james/server/trunk/jcr-backend-function/pom.xml?rev=652517&r1=652516&r2=652517&view=diff ============================================================================== --- james/server/trunk/jcr-backend-function/pom.xml (original) +++ james/server/trunk/jcr-backend-function/pom.xml Thu May 1 06:37:44 2008 @@ -20,32 +20,34 @@ xsi:schemaLocation="http://maven.apache.org/POM/4.0.0 http://maven.apache.org/maven-v4_0_0.xsd "> <modelVersion>4.0.0</modelVersion> + <parent> + <artifactId>james-server</artifactId> + <groupId>org.apache.james</groupId> + <version>3.0-SNAPSHOT</version> + </parent> <groupId>org.apache.james</groupId> - <artifactId>james-jcr</artifactId> + <artifactId>james-server-jcr-backend-function</artifactId> <name>JCR support for Apache James</name> - <version>1.0-SNAPSHOT</version> + <version>3.0-SNAPSHOT</version> <dependencies> <dependency> <groupId>javax.mail</groupId> <artifactId>mail</artifactId> - <version>1.4</version> - </dependency> - <dependency> - <groupId>javax.jcr</groupId> - <artifactId>jcr</artifactId> - <version>1.0</version> </dependency> <dependency> <groupId>org.apache.james</groupId> <artifactId>mailet</artifactId> - <version>3.0-SNAPSHOT</version> </dependency> <dependency> <groupId>org.apache.james</groupId> <artifactId>james-server-core-library</artifactId> - <version>3.0-SNAPSHOT</version> + </dependency> + <dependency> + <groupId>javax.jcr</groupId> + <artifactId>jcr</artifactId> + <version>1.0</version> </dependency> <dependency> <groupId>org.apache.jackrabbit</groupId> Modified: james/server/trunk/pom.xml URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/james/server/trunk/pom.xml?rev=652517&r1=652516&r2=652517&view=diff ============================================================================== --- james/server/trunk/pom.xml (original) +++ james/server/trunk/pom.xml Thu May 1 06:37:44 2008 @@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ <module>imapserver-function</module> <module>experimental-seda-imap-function</module> <module>experimental-activemq-function</module> + <module>jcr-backend-function</module> <module>phoenix-deployment</module> </modules> <scm> @@ -330,6 +331,11 @@ </dependency> <dependency> <groupId>org.apache.james</groupId> + <artifactId>james-server-jcr-backend-function</artifactId> + <version>3.0-SNAPSHOT</version> + </dependency> + <dependency> + <groupId>org.apache.james</groupId> <artifactId>james-server-imap-api</artifactId> <version>3.0-SNAPSHOT</version> </dependency> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Thu May 01 13:38:44 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 40892 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 13:38:43 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 1 May 2008 13:38:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 15012 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 13:38:44 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 14974 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 13:38:44 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 14963 invoked by uid 500); 1 May 2008 13:38:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 14960 invoked by uid 99); 1 May 2008 13:38:44 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 06:38:44 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2000.0 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO eris.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 May 2008 13:37:59 +0000 Received: by eris.apache.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 85CBB2388A12; Thu, 1 May 2008 06:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: svn commit: r652518 - in /james/server/trunk: avalon-user-function/ user-library/ Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 13:38:20 -0000 To: rachelsimmons@example.net From: rachelsimmons@example.net X-Mailer: svnmailer-1.0.8 Message-Id: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Author: bago Date: Thu May 1 06:38:20 2008 New Revision: 652518 URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=652518&view=rev Log: Add a couple of svn:ignores Modified: james/server/trunk/avalon-user-function/ (props changed) james/server/trunk/user-library/ (props changed) Propchange: james/server/trunk/avalon-user-function/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- svn:ignore (original) +++ svn:ignore Thu May 1 06:38:20 2008 @@ -1,2 +1,4 @@ .* target + +stage Propchange: james/server/trunk/user-library/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- svn:ignore (original) +++ svn:ignore Thu May 1 06:38:20 2008 @@ -1,2 +1,4 @@ .* target + +stage --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 00:19:51 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 13107 invoked from network); 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( [83.161.120.155]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c13sm6799177anc.32.283.161.120.155.19.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 01 May 2008 17:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 20:19:19 -0400 From: James D Carroll <rachelsimmons@example.net> Reply-To: James Developers List <rachelsimmons@example.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 83.161.120.155 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Developers List <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Still testing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Still trying to ping the list. Sorry --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 07:43:22 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 89781 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 07:43:22 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 07:43:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 38521 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 07:43:23 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 38487 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 07:43:23 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 38475 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 07:43:23 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 00:43:23 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 07:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from cpe-065-188-050-203.sc.res.rr.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 867 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 2 May 2008 03:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 03:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Sender: rachelsimmons@example.net To: JAMES Server Development <rachelsimmons@example.net> From: JAMES Nightly Build System <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: JAMES Server Nightly Build Report X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org An automated nightly build of JAMES has been posted to http://people.apache.org/builds/james/nightly/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Any unit test errors from the build should be reported below: -------------------------------------------------------------------- BUILD SUCCESSFUL Total time: 12 minutes 34 seconds -------------------------------------------------------------------- Done. Packages Will Be Uploaded To The Nightly Repository. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please review http://people.apache.org/builds/james/nightly/BUILD.log. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 15:34:02 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 63486 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 15:34:01 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 15:34:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 77739 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 15:34:03 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 77690 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 15:34:02 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 77679 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 15:34:02 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 08:34:02 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of rachelsimmons@example.net designates 83.161.120.155 as permitted sender) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 15:33:16 +0000 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c49so970772wra.19 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 02 May 2008 08:33:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=HBfKNjtEPMeTbdz988wmAvfpD/ji/I6zzJ/ONzyONic=; b=tISNZoX4aVLwRs9zxOyB7hmwf6MCZo8bP1vTTqoGJ9pmRiF6heABZtr5xQApUrSeFr/FwLgpZjFQE7U9G59ALF2As24Bd/oKIbi4VxX6ZObFskkIlx5Z+rD80p5SDKUYQAPIC8o+NI8uoCVne0bsVDfX+oJ2Ozhs63T/UEIMt/A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KbJVugJiJHHmPuJBsrrTMHeMsKRkYiDbTInKkoSaDHbJLgbVLUX8ZFAFeBDqAfUbEGQWaUmCAdr7aDn55ziyVz5CkAljGygHjFllV/nE5EcUTvWrh9+hZQuhOoMvCXCe9PmOvytUgrBnMjvlq8m/JK9kDxab7CTAJsvtzqoS1h8= Received: by 83.161.120.155 with SMTP id q12mr4797598anb.34.1209742409554; Fri, 02 May 2008 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 83.161.120.155 with HTTP; Fri, 2 May 2008 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:33:29 -0400 From: "Serge Knystautas" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Reply-To: "Serge Knystautas" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: compile 2.3.1 In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Noel J. Bergman <rachelsimmons@example.net> wrote: > Stefano Bagnara wrote: > > Noel J. Bergman ha scritto: > > > > Probably, with the newest versions of Java. Mordred is deprecated, and > > > since I don't see any reason to update mordred, it will be removed as > soon > > > as I can start work on the new stable branch. > > > I created JIRA-605 (http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-605) to > > remove mordred and you replied that you was ok with deprecating it but > > not removing. It is 1.5 years ago > > As I recall, Serge and I were the ones who did the work to get DBCP into > JAMES in the first place, and after some years of running DBCP, processing > over 1 million connections per day, I am satisfied that we don't need > mordred as a backup plan anymore, so it is not worth maintaining. > > Remember: if we cannot provide a stable, reliable, production quality mail > server, every feature, bell and whistle is worthless. This is a good example of Robert's points on modularity. If mordred was a separate project built separately, we could keep it as a binary dependency, no? -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com p. 613-660-0003 e. rachelsimmons@example.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 15:35:12 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 64638 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 15:35:12 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 15:35:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 82584 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 15:35:13 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 82548 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 15:35:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 82537 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 15:35:13 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 08:35:13 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of rachelsimmons@example.net designates 83.161.120.155 as permitted sender) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 15:34:28 +0000 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c34so408090anc.78 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 02 May 2008 08:34:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=h+hinXaQpZdh77GSU+XkcC7rCMEeccCKHO5ATlcyTbU=; b=erUbjjkVFZuYrEO5WP0qXK1h5XD8T3TwcrsWXR921TdoZVI/Ex9zZYG9/4RsSmP/A9aKXR/BsggqXCTWeb51pq45LqoAchIq+PrbZ3rnwWfcOhXL7Jil4UupBRPSDOqJtIYfpyJz2nUDZ8eE52QkuRGMJPC6GhoL351pAEC7uC8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=XTmvvLu4N3MA2lsiZDaJlqiNZYHp1A4IRZU5RWRoHPpLlw8uQ65Hb01o+Uj7mYZkErxTacd3oj3QwXqspsUh9NEHXs/rlmts4k8CGHO3wk3PHr0Ov4PiFABFKwqCiQMm0xLNLrj/CmioMMb3AuhF9YnsXUthwaNV1XP6TKmVKqw= Received: by 83.161.120.155 with SMTP id o9mr4803488ano.42.1209742481197; Fri, 02 May 2008 08:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 83.161.120.155 with HTTP; Fri, 2 May 2008 08:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:34:41 -0400 From: "Serge Knystautas" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Reply-To: "Serge Knystautas" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: Extract Modred Library [WAS Re: compile 2.3.1] In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Noel J. Bergman <rachelsimmons@example.net> wrote: > Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > > > Noel advocated deletion in another thread > > After some years of resisting removing it. :-) > > > > I tend to be conservative about backwards compatibility. So I would > > tend to move the source into somewhere like legacy. Wouldn't take much > > to cut a release or could just ask users to build their own. > > I have been testing the replacement for a long time, and it is a drop-in > replacement. Anyone who still finds some reason to use mordred can download > the code and do their own build, *OR* explain to us why we should still > maintain mordred. I'm good with this too... either separate build that's a binary dependency or just a separate download to build manually. -- Serge Knystautas Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com p. 613-660-0003 e. rachelsimmons@example.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 18:31:42 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 52059 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 18:31:42 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 18:31:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 51288 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 18:31:43 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 51264 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 18:31:43 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 51252 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 18:31:43 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 11:31:43 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OIMO,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 18:30:58 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from mail.devtech.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 85 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 2 May 2008 14:31:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Noel J. Bergman" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: RE: compile 2.3.1 Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:31:07 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Serge Knystautas wrote: > This is a good example of Robert's points on modularity. If mordred > was a separate project built separately, we could keep it as a binary > dependency, no? Except that the issue is that mordred needs updating because it no longer works with newer versions of Java. --- Noel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 19:29:50 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 81633 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 19:29:50 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 19:29:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 24702 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 19:29:51 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 24675 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 19:29:51 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 24664 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 19:29:51 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 12:29:51 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OIMO,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 19:28:58 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from mail.devtech.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 496 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 2 May 2008 15:29:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Noel J. Bergman" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: re: Milestone from trunk Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:29:14 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > there is no prospect of releasing trunk without Noel's active support. I hope that's not actually the case, but regardless, what does the PMC think of the following? Trunk is simply not trustworthy. Anyone who would consider releasing from trunk would do little to improve my opinion of said person's competence to make that judgement. Frankly, I consider a "milestone" from trunk to be less than a bad joke, and would vote -1 on the grounds that no one can consider trunk even close to being supportable. You and Danny have recently said almost the same thing about trunk being unsupportable. So what is the point of a milestone? We already do nightly builds. Anyone who wants to jump off a mountain in the dark without a parachute and pray for the best is invited to try the nightly builds. That said, there are several things that we could do it improve trust in the code. One is the plan that we had discussed at ApacheCon: start from known good code -- the JAMES 2.3.x codebase -- and incrementally merge parts of trunk into it as they are reviewed. I consider that to be a good and viable option, and would have started on that already were it not for my own server's failure last week, and the SVN issues this week. Second is to get people to review trunk en masse. I don't consider that likely, but if everyone wants to give it a shot, I'm willing to be surprised. However, simply reviewing the code won't come even remotely close to cutting it. One reason why the trusted code is trusted isn't just that it has been reviewed, but that it has been EXTENSIVELY tested in production over a long span of time. So regardless of which approach we take, and certainly crucial to any attempt to evaluate the code quality of trunk, we need to hammer at the build. And not just within a sanitized cleanroom network, which is what prevented Stefano from seeing the problems staring those of us who actually use JAMES in the face. So what I propose is that we setup a JAMES zone, and start to deploy JAMES in that zone. That will be published in the DNS, and quite shortly we should start to see a lot of connections coming to it as millions of spambots start to exercise JAMES for us. So we'll have a built-in load test running, courtesy of the botnets, and we can just watch the build work or crash in flames without any concern for lost messages. We will need to be careful to initially disable the ability to send mail, and open it up very carefully to make sure that we don't accidentally create a relay of any kind. We could, for example, setup an SMTPS handler, and allow PMC members to send via it, or alternatively, allow relaying only when the connection comes from p.a.o. This would be a really good thing for helping us to improve trust in the code, both now and as it evolves. --- Noel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 20:23:33 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 155 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 20:23:32 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 20:23:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 98144 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 20:23:34 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 98112 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 20:23:33 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 98101 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 20:23:33 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 13:23:33 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of rachelsimmons@example.net designates 83.161.120.155 as permitted sender) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 20:22:47 +0000 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c49so1096833wra.19 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 02 May 2008 13:23:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=wqHlG/nym1FHCMSJ9aVV1730lJi5L5bgWqZnqRH2Cvs=; b=bCDVFBAbOnKUSLvXbDhG56LzpEXy5B/tIKfU3mmyxIZIuv4+1u1J2x3WrXVK4kTF38q0XtLt2aVRxqB+Cys2zo2krj6Z0+YcOJGDW5GMj4MZhcKj7lRTX3koQ9MjwyXR1vOQl5TjyT6lBWmjMGVrulXi0xJdZb8BzLQz3VBUJmU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pUYGS7reaYoK/DIYUMhKkqguNH2y5hwDLtU/JfGwb48dRmBagtaX8Q7dJTIzzcf88oCa5gw4her8N8qXX5wawv14GG0jxNR1CqCPA1zlWCRYHYc+SO/zSF19ogiM3N2s17NeFXKhkQHIhzo3uc9qKSr/bO1FUuCRlk02kgsXg3E= Received: by 83.161.120.155 with SMTP id y11mr5276463anh.114.1209759779980; Fri, 02 May 2008 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 83.161.120.155 with HTTP; Fri, 2 May 2008 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:22:59 +0200 From: "Bernd Fondermann" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: Milestone from trunk In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Noel J. Bergman <rachelsimmons@example.net> wrote: > Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > > > there is no prospect of releasing trunk without Noel's active support. > > I hope that's not actually the case, but regardless, what does the PMC think > of the following? > > Trunk is simply not trustworthy. Anyone who would consider releasing from > trunk would do little to improve my opinion of said person's competence to > make that judgement. Frankly, I consider a "milestone" from trunk to be > less than a bad joke, and would vote -1 on the grounds that no one can > consider trunk even close to being supportable. You and Danny have recently > said almost the same thing about trunk being unsupportable. So what is the > point of a milestone? We already do nightly builds. Anyone who wants to > jump off a mountain in the dark without a parachute and pray for the best is > invited to try the nightly builds. > > That said, there are several things that we could do it improve trust in the > code. One is the plan that we had discussed at ApacheCon: start from known > good code -- the JAMES 2.3.x codebase -- and incrementally merge parts of > trunk into it as they are reviewed. I consider that to be a good and viable > option, and would have started on that already were it not for my own > server's failure last week, and the SVN issues this week. > > Second is to get people to review trunk en masse. I don't consider that > likely, but if everyone wants to give it a shot, I'm willing to be > surprised. > > However, simply reviewing the code won't come even remotely close to cutting > it. One reason why the trusted code is trusted isn't just that it has been > reviewed, but that it has been EXTENSIVELY tested in production over a long > span of time. > > So regardless of which approach we take, and certainly crucial to any > attempt to evaluate the code quality of trunk, we need to hammer at the > build. And not just within a sanitized cleanroom network, which is what > prevented Stefano from seeing the problems staring those of us who actually > use JAMES in the face. > > So what I propose is that we setup a JAMES zone, and start to deploy JAMES > in that zone. That will be published in the DNS, and quite shortly we > should start to see a lot of connections coming to it as millions of > spambots start to exercise JAMES for us. So we'll have a built-in load test > running, courtesy of the botnets, and we can just watch the build work or > crash in flames without any concern for lost messages. We will need to be > careful to initially disable the ability to send mail, and open it up very > carefully to make sure that we don't accidentally create a relay of any > kind. We could, for example, setup an SMTPS handler, and allow PMC members > to send via it, or alternatively, allow relaying only when the connection > comes from p.a.o. > > This would be a really good thing for helping us to improve trust in the > code, both now and as it evolves. I don't trust 2.3.1 more than TRUNK or any other James snapshot. And we all know that TRUNK is not tested in the small. So proposing to expose it in the large while at the same time repeating the mantra of "TRUNK implements Disposable" just doesn't make sense to me. Noel, you are inconsistent ;-) I wouldn't like to see James loosing its credibility and trust caused by a bug or untested feature causing it to sent out email to everywhere from an apache.org zone. We already have tools for load- and integrity-testing a mail server locally and without exposing it to the outside world right here at our fingertips. If we are positive with local tests we can deploy to a zone. But without testing locally before, I think this is unprofessional. Actually, I think a release labelled as "milestone" and thus clearly attributed as "not-production-ready-yet" is more clever than actually exposing it in a production-like environment on a solaris zone untested. Additionally - Noel, if you are aware of any specific, reproducible problems with TRUNK, please take the time and document these on the mailing list or in JIRA. In short: +1 to deploy to a zone _after_ testing it sufficiently locally. Bernd --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 22:29:28 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 48532 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 22:29:28 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 22:29:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 54731 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 22:29:29 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 54696 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 22:29:29 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 54685 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 22:29:28 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 15:29:28 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OIMO,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 22:28:44 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from mail.devtech.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 341 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Fri, 2 May 2008 18:28:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Noel J. Bergman" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: RE: Milestone from trunk Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 18:29:00 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Bernd Fondermann wrote: > I don't trust 2.3.1 more than TRUNK or any other James snapshot. That's really too bad, since we know from empirical experience that JAMES 2.3 + my patches hold up to years of real-world production loads. We have some justification that 2.3.x are OK because we're not getting reports of failures from end users. We have not an iota of demonstrable quality in trunk save for your unit tests, which while gratefully acknowledged and highly valued are *NOT* a sufficient indicator of real-world functionality, nor do they in any way speak to performance or design issues. > And we all know that TRUNK is not tested in the small. So proposing to > expose it in the large while at the same time repeating the mantra of > "TRUNK implements Disposable" just doesn't make sense to me. Well, then let me make this clear. The proposal is based on the fact that every message delivered to the zone will be disposable spam. Therefore, unlike performing some sort of faux release without any basis, we will be testing in a risk-free environment. Every message can be dropped, the database can be corrupted, the server can leak memory and crash, and no one should care other than to fix it. As an example of why this sort of testing is the right thing to do, rather than the idiocy of pushing out releases without real-world testing, consider our current situation with SVN. Because of an emergency, an untested configuration of a new (for this purposs) but supposedly stable operating system and new hardware was precipituously put into place without any proper testing. So we have had crash after crash for a week, despite the best interests of an entire team of very talented people spending tremendous hours on the singular task of keeping an SVN server running. In the past, I have been the primary real-world tester before a release ever happened. I do not trust trunk to be other than disposable. The above environment would provide us with a means for doing real-world testing, and establish a level of trust in the code necessary to even contemplate putting it into a critical position (pending fixes, etc.). > I wouldn't like to see James loosing its credibility and trust caused > by a bug or untested feature causing it to sent out email to > everywhere from an apache.org zone. Which part of: > > We will need to be careful to initially DISABLE the ability to send mail, > > and open it up very carefully to MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T accidentally > > create a relay of any kind. was not clear to you? > We already have tools for load- and integrity-testing a mail server > locally and without exposing it to the outside world right here at our > fingertips. That sort of thinking led Stefano to push to rush out v2.3.0 over my objections that there was a critical memory leak. > Actually, I think a release labelled as "milestone" and thus clearly > attributed as "not-production-ready-yet" is more clever than actually > exposing it in a production-like environment on a solaris zone > untested. Wrong. Fundamentally, categorically, wrong. We do NOT put our stamp of approval, even one so "weak" as "milestone" on untested code and screw over our users, who trust us, because some folks here don't understand the fundamentals of stability and reliability. JAMES is not a game or hobby. E-mail service is business-critical and time-critical. It tolerates near zero defects. --- Noel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Fri May 02 23:28:34 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 70817 invoked from network); 2 May 2008 23:28:32 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 May 2008 23:28:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 91223 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 23:28:33 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 91195 invoked by uid 500); 2 May 2008 23:28:33 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 91184 invoked by uid 99); 2 May 2008 23:28:33 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 16:28:33 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.1 required=10.0 tests=MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO elysia.void.it) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 May 2008 23:27:40 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from 83.161.120.155 ([83.161.120.155]) by elysia.void.it (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.2) with SMTP ID 757 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Sat, 3 May 2008 01:28:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 01:27:43 +0200 From: Stefano Bagnara <rachelsimmons@example.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9a1) Gecko/20051206 Thunderbird/1.6a1 Mnenhy/83.161.120.155 To: James Developers List <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: Milestone from trunk References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Noel J. Bergman ha scritto: > That sort of thinking led Stefano to push to rush out v2.3.0 over my > objections that there was a critical memory leak. LOL very funny :-) Stefano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Sat May 03 07:29:11 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 60181 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 07:29:11 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 3 May 2008 07:29:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 74727 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 07:29:12 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 74694 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 07:29:12 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 74677 invoked by uid 99); 3 May 2008 07:29:12 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 00:29:12 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of rachelsimmons@example.net designates 83.161.120.155 as permitted sender) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO rv-out-0708.google.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 07:28:27 +0000 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so292532rvf.52 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Sat, 03 May 2008 00:28:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=F/vv4BQ0cCnbOFMtKXqCo+pNrcow11CNBFPfr1Bl7lE=; b=xgXedv/gDeQA5KqhM1vpm+rajmkKpGSPjHNbkd2G5KdebJrL1d+/RmJYxg5IR1X0Sl/wSgA1kHDUnfp36pfej0OYts0JADgwxySdHDPU0xvxlUnQ2yot56EIwyz+f6eA+xlHju/3C4NGlt82Qzdna/iCzxptgkj1vK31BogBBNM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=PIo5je9BqSnD4uMDpPfUjYYJAjNKdCjE7uMXyqMBXaWe63tP/aKgzjVg10NWzxH79J/x/VkHKQVmeEF4nO0rd+siz6QwCEG1rsujizT3NW7LqY3S88nLSxctuqrwxH+SOVIu+6Q8K4g16Jg9HIyzy2NwU9C++5mG5L+P4m78PP4= Received: by 83.161.120.155 with SMTP id v8mr1602083wfa.68.1209799722136; Sat, 03 May 2008 00:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 83.161.120.155 with HTTP; Sat, 3 May 2008 00:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:28:41 +0100 From: "Robert Burrell Donkin" <rachelsimmons@example.net> To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: compile 2.3.1 In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> <rachelsimmons@example.net> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Noel J. Bergman <rachelsimmons@example.net> wrote: > Serge Knystautas wrote: > > This is a good example of Robert's points on modularity. If mordred > > was a separate project built separately, we could keep it as a binary > > dependency, no? > > Except that the issue is that mordred needs updating because it no longer > works with newer versions of Java. if anyone needs to use mordred with newer versions of java then they can submit a patch - robert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Sat May 03 07:43:03 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 62084 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 07:43:03 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 3 May 2008 07:43:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 77576 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 07:43:04 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 77538 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 07:43:04 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 77527 invoked by uid 99); 3 May 2008 07:43:04 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 00:43:04 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=10.0 tests=SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mo-p07-ob.rzone.de) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 07:42:11 +0000 X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo07 X-RZG-AUTH: gNvC5ZX7Ef0PyKpTtifwGPGsEWHliDSK+udWW8C9KJ/Rj1R96DtEPNIWTnh9xC2jrTWA1MvUAgPLkQFH1Q== Received: from vitamin.local (e180161135.adsl.alicedsl.de [83.161.120.155]) by post.webmailer.de (fruni mo20) (RZmta 16.27) with ESMTP id z06281k436LKdF for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Sat, 3 May 2008 09:42:32 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from: <rachelsimmons@example.net>) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 09:42:41 +0200 From: Bernd Fondermann <rachelsimmons@example.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 83.161.120.155 (Macintosh/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Developers List <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: Milestone from trunk References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> <rachelsimmons@example.net> In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Stefano Bagnara wrote: > Noel J. Bergman ha scritto: >> That sort of thinking led Stefano to push to rush out v2.3.0 over my >> objections that there was a critical memory leak. This is an obvious attempt to discredit other committers and bring back the old hostile atmosphere we were able to overcome lately. > > LOL > very funny :-) Keep laughing. It's not worth the fight. Bernd --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Sat May 03 07:43:28 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 62157 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 07:43:28 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 3 May 2008 07:43:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 77860 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 07:43:29 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 77824 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 07:43:29 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 77813 invoked by uid 99); 3 May 2008 07:43:29 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 00:43:29 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=10.0 tests=MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mail.devtech.com) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 07:42:36 +0000 Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MessageIsInfected: false Received: from cpe-065-188-050-203.sc.res.rr.com. ([83.161.120.155]) by mail.devtech.com (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.1-dev) with SMTP ID 767 for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Sat, 3 May 2008 03:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 03:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Sender: rachelsimmons@example.net To: JAMES Server Development <rachelsimmons@example.net> From: JAMES Nightly Build System <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: JAMES Server Nightly Build Report X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org An automated nightly build of JAMES has been posted to http://people.apache.org/builds/james/nightly/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Any unit test errors from the build should be reported below: -------------------------------------------------------------------- BUILD SUCCESSFUL Total time: 12 minutes 40 seconds -------------------------------------------------------------------- Done. Packages Will Be Uploaded To The Nightly Repository. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please review http://people.apache.org/builds/james/nightly/BUILD.log. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net For additional commands, e-mail: rachelsimmons@example.net From server-devrachelsimmons@example.net Sat May 03 09:33:11 2008 Return-Path: <server-devrachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 81268 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 09:33:09 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 3 May 2008 09:33:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 24986 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 09:33:11 -0000 Delivered-To: rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 24955 invoked by uid 500); 3 May 2008 09:33:11 -0000 Mailing-List: contact rachelsimmons@example.net; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Help: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Post: <mailto:rachelsimmons@example.net> List-Id: "James Developers List" <server-dev.james.apache.org> Reply-To: "James Developers List" <rachelsimmons@example.net> Delivered-To: mailing list rachelsimmons@example.net Received: (qmail 24944 invoked by uid 99); 3 May 2008 09:33:10 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 02:33:10 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=10.0 tests=SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [83.161.120.155] (HELO mo-p07-ob.rzone.de) (83.161.120.155) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 May 2008 09:32:17 +0000 X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo07 X-RZG-AUTH: gNvC5ZX7Ef0PyKpTtifwGPGsEWHliDSK+udWW8C9KJ/Rj1R96DtEPNIWTnh9xC2jrTWA1MvUAeyJnVnnpA== Received: from vitamin.local (e180157132.adsl.alicedsl.de [83.161.120.155]) by post.webmailer.de (fruni mo59) (RZmta 16.27) with ESMTP id g0701ak4390tfS for <rachelsimmons@example.net>; Sat, 3 May 2008 11:32:37 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from: <rachelsimmons@example.net>) Message-ID: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 11:32:46 +0200 From: Bernd Fondermann <rachelsimmons@example.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 83.161.120.155 (Macintosh/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Developers List <rachelsimmons@example.net> Subject: Re: Milestone from trunk References: <rachelsimmons@example.net> In-Reply-To: <rachelsimmons@example.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Noel J. Bergman wrote: > Bernd Fondermann wrote: > >> I don't trust 2.3.1 more than TRUNK or any other James snapshot. > > That's really too bad, since we know from empirical experience that JAMES > 2.3 + my patches hold up to years of real-world production loads. We have > some justification that 2.3.x are OK because we're not getting reports of > failures from end users. We have not an iota of demonstrable quality in > trunk save for your unit tests, which while gratefully acknowledged and > highly valued are *NOT* a sufficient indicator of real-world functionality, > nor do they in any way speak to performance or design issues. I agree. (Except that Stefano must be credited for most of the unit tests, actually, not me.) I know what unit test are good for and what functional tests are good for. >> And we all know that TRUNK is not tested in the small. So proposing to >> expose it in the large while at the same time repeating the mantra of >> "TRUNK implements Disposable" just doesn't make sense to me. > > Well, then let me make this clear. > > The proposal is based on the fact that every message delivered to the zone > will be disposable spam. Therefore, unlike performing some sort of faux > release without any basis, we will be testing in a risk-free environment. > Every message can be dropped, the database can be corrupted, the server can > leak memory and crash, and no one should care other than to fix it. Then you are talking about a closed environment test, so do I. > As an example of why this sort of testing is the right thing to do, rather > than the idiocy of pushing out releases without real-world testing, consider > our current situation with SVN. I never said we should release without testing beforehand. It is you who is ignoring the fact we have a safe black box testing tool right here in our project. At the bottom line, I am happy that there seems to emerge some kind of common goal to start from TRUNK and put
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