From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Sun Sep 23 02:23:28 2007
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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:22:33 +0800
To: joseph67@example.org
Subject: help a new user choose NxD? (how large volumn can Xindic handle?)
From: "Gildor Oronar" <joseph67@example.org>
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Dear all

I am choosing NxD for my project. The NxD is used mainly as an XForm  
repository to store a lot of XForms submitted by a lot of people. The  
choice must be very careful because

1-> The data volumn is big. The system will start with 400,000 XForms and  
probably double or tripple in the coming years. Each XForm can have  
several dozens of values in it (some XForms have several hundreds of  
values in it);
2-> Advanced query feature must be implemented, it's often needed to  
calculate from tens of thousands of records on average value of a certain  
elements for example.

I guess the second question is more or less related to XQuery and how  
flexible it can achieve, and compare with project requirement. The first  
question is probably depend on how NxD can handle. Can Xindic easily  
handle data at this volumn? Which NxD can do?

If Xindic is chosen and helped us succeed, because the project, once done,  
is pretty open to the outside, this will be a good success story for  
Xindic for marketing purpose too:) We would like to share victory with  
apache team!

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Sun Sep 23 02:27:12 2007
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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:26:20 +0800
To: joseph67@example.org
Subject: completely new to NxD: query that doesn't requre all result returned?
From: "Gildor Oronar" <joseph67@example.org>
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Dear all

One big difference when I used LDAP and ordinary RDBMS is LDAP return  
first set of results (first 100, for example) almost instantly, and RDBMS  
return it slowly because it return all search result together, or at least  
needs to calculate total number of results.

In my project total number of result is not important, users cannot wait  
10 min only to get first page of result when 9.9 min is used to calculate  
total number of records.

Can Xindice be configured to funcion in the LDAP way (return first set of  
result instantly without counting total number of results)? As we will  
have a lot of records, this is important for me to decide what database to  
use.

Best regards!

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

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From: Vadim Gritsenko <joseph67@example.org>
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Subject: Re: help a new user choose NxD? (how large volumn can Xindic handle?)
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Gildor Oronar wrote:
> Dear all
> 
> I am choosing NxD for my project. The NxD is used mainly as an XForm 
> repository to store a lot of XForms submitted by a lot of people. The 
> choice must be very careful because
> 
> 1-> The data volumn is big. The system will start with 400,000 XForms 
> and probably double or tripple in the coming years. Each XForm can have 
> several dozens of values in it (some XForms have several hundreds of 
> values in it);

That's not very much, as far as large databases go. Xindice should be able to 
handle such number of documents fine.

However you did not say what is the mean/average/max size of each document. 
Since you are talking about "dozens of values" I'm guessing documents are rather 
small.


> 2-> Advanced query feature must be implemented, it's often needed to 
> calculate from tens of thousands of records on average value of a 
> certain elements for example.
> 
> I guess the second question is more or less related to XQuery and how 
> flexible it can achieve, and compare with project requirement.

Current version of Xindice does not support XQuery. Currently you can use only 
XPath and XUpdate with Xindice.


> The first 
> question is probably depend on how NxD can handle. Can Xindic easily 
> handle data at this volumn? Which NxD can do?

I'd guess almost any XML DB should handle such volume Ok.


> If Xindic is chosen and helped us succeed, because the project, once 
> done, is pretty open to the outside, this will be a good success story 
> for Xindic for marketing purpose too:) We would like to share victory 
> with apache team!

PS It's 'Xindice' :)

Vadim

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Subject: Re: completely new to NxD: query that doesn't requre all result returned?
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Gildor Oronar wrote:
> Dear all
> 
> One big difference when I used LDAP and ordinary RDBMS is LDAP return 
> first set of results (first 100, for example) almost instantly, and 
> RDBMS return it slowly because it return all search result together, or 
> at least needs to calculate total number of results.
> 
> In my project total number of result is not important, users cannot wait 
> 10 min only to get first page of result when 9.9 min is used to 
> calculate total number of records.
> 
> Can Xindice be configured to funcion in the LDAP way (return first set 
> of result instantly without counting total number of results)? As we 
> will have a lot of records, this is important for me to decide what 
> database to use.

Returning only partial results is on TODO list for Xindice but currently is not 
implemented.

Vadim

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Tue Sep 25 03:48:04 2007
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:47:14 +0800
To: joseph67@example.org
Subject: Re: help a new user choose NxD? (how large volumn can Xindic handle?)
From: "Gildor Oronar" <joseph67@example.org>
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:29:30 +0800, Vadim Gritsenko  
<joseph67@example.org> wrote:

> Gildor Oronar wrote:
>> 2-> Advanced query feature must be implemented, it's often needed to  
>> calculate from tens of thousands of records on average value of a  
>> certain elements for example.
>>  I guess the second question is more or less related to XQuery and how  
>> flexible it can achieve, and compare with project requirement.
>
> Current version of Xindice does not support XQuery. Currently you can  
> use only XPath and XUpdate with Xindice.

Okay, then I have some homework to do. First check if XPath can satisfy  
all current query requirements. If not, starting hunting for a database  
that supports XQuery. Currently my feeling is XPath is likely to be  
enough. I hope Xindice have a plan to add XQuery, so that if future query  
requirement grows our project can still handle.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Tue Sep 25 05:14:53 2007
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To: joseph67@example.org
Subject: what transaction is supported?
From: "Gildor Oronar" <joseph67@example.org>
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As said: on http://xml.apache.org/xindice/todo.html

[xml] Basic Document-level transactions We need to provide the ability to
lock a node (and recursively everything beneath it) to support node-level
transactions. This locking should allow for both single writer/many reader
and exclusive locking. → open

What does this mean? Does this mean, that Basic Document-level transation
is being planned and is on todo list, or does it mean, that current 1.1
version has Basic Document-level transaction and it's being planned to add
a node-level transation?

Best regards

-- 
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From: "Natalia Shilenkova" <joseph67@example.org>
To: joseph67@example.org
Subject: Re: help a new user choose NxD? (how large volumn can Xindic handle?)
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On 9/24/07, Gildor Oronar <joseph67@example.org> wrote:
> Okay, then I have some homework to do. First check if XPath can satisfy
> all current query requirements. If not, starting hunting for a database
> that supports XQuery. Currently my feeling is XPath is likely to be
> enough. I hope Xindice have a plan to add XQuery, so that if future query
> requirement grows our project can still handle.

XQuery support is on our TODO list, but it is rather complex feature
and it is likely to take quite some time to implement this. If you
decide against using Xindice, I would recommend you to check
Wikipedia's XML Database page [1] to find out about other NXDs.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xml_database

Regards,
Natalia

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Subject: Re: help a new user choose NxD? (how large volumn can Xindic handle?)
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Hello,

for XQuery-Support i can recommend to use the eXist-NXD. A sandbox on there 
website makes it possible to test if your queries are supported.

i hope this is some help,
christoph

----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalia Shilenkova" <joseph67@example.org>
To: <joseph67@example.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: help a new user choose NxD? (how large volumn can Xindic 
handle?)

> On 9/24/07, Gildor Oronar <joseph67@example.org> wrote:
>> Okay, then I have some homework to do. First check if XPath can satisfy
>> all current query requirements. If not, starting hunting for a database
>> that supports XQuery. Currently my feeling is XPath is likely to be
>> enough. I hope Xindice have a plan to add XQuery, so that if future query
>> requirement grows our project can still handle.
>
> XQuery support is on our TODO list, but it is rather complex feature
> and it is likely to take quite some time to implement this. If you
> decide against using Xindice, I would recommend you to check
> Wikipedia's XML Database page [1] to find out about other NXDs.
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xml_database
>
> Regards,
> Natalia 


From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Wed Sep 26 01:48:42 2007
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From: Vadim Gritsenko <joseph67@example.org>
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Gildor Oronar wrote:
> As said: on http://xml.apache.org/xindice/todo.html
> 
> [xml] Basic Document-level transactions We need to provide the ability to
> lock a node (and recursively everything beneath it) to support node-level
> transactions. This locking should allow for both single writer/many reader
> and exclusive locking. → open
> 
> What does this mean? Does this mean, that Basic Document-level transation
> is being planned and is on todo list, or does it mean, that current 1.1
> version has Basic Document-level transaction and it's being planned to add
> a node-level transation?

The former.

Usually in content management systems there are many readers / few writers, so 
transactions are not high on a priority list. Xindice guarantees atomicity of 
writes and this is enough for most scenarios. Transactions come into picture 
when there are use cases where several documents have to be modified 
(/added/removed) simultaneously - which usually is not a requirement.

Vadim

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Wed Sep 26 05:51:04 2007
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Subject: how big is a big database?
From: "Gildor Oronar" <joseph67@example.org>
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Dear all

As said, starting with 360,000 xml documents (all submitted by XForm) is  
not a big amount, any NxD should work. Then how much documents can be a  
problem that makes the project have to think which NxD to choose carefully?

I seriously lack background information on database scalability. I only  
know for one time when a database capacity become a problem, that a  
colleague of mine has worked on a project with Microsofot SQL server and  
database crash at 3000 stimulated connection (and upgrade hardware doesn't  
improve anything). I mean I just need to be careful, knowing 360k  
documents is small thing is good, but what if we end up with 3600k  
documents? I just wish to be aware what's the next level (of document  
numbers) that I should be aware.

If the project I am working on is really successfull, it might reach 1  
million documents in coming 3 years. I'd like to say this should be the  
max I can guess.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Fri Sep 28 21:31:41 2007
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From: ioffe <joseph67@example.org>
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Subject: No inline metadata reader available for version ...
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Our xindice 1.1b4 db just stopped functioning this morning. I tried to figure
out the problem myself, but Xindice project is complex. 

Here is the stacktrace with embedded style use. 

org.apache.xindice.core.meta.inline.InlineMetaException: No inline metadata
reader available for version 32

org.apache.xindice.core.meta.inline.InlineMetaService.readDatabaseEntry(InlineMetaService.java:134)
	org.apache.xindice.core.Collection.getEntry(Collection.java:729)
	org.apache.xindice.core.Collection.getDocument(Collection.java:570)
	org.apache.xindice.server.UglyBrowser.getDetailView(UglyBrowser.java:187)
	org.apache.xindice.server.UglyBrowser.doGet(UglyBrowser.java:82)
	org.apache.xindice.server.XindiceServlet.doGet(XindiceServlet.java:84)

Please, please, please help. I need to figure out what does it mean or at
least how to retrieve the xml content this tbl? If the content is gone then
I am majorly screwed (since it wasn't backuped). In the collection  I have
to files(xsd and xml). xsd file is perfectly accessable, but xml file can
not be read anymore.  
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/No-inline-metadata-reader-available-for-version-...-tf4536933.html#a12948920
Sent from the Xindice - Users mailing list joseph67@example.org.


From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Sat Sep 29 00:34:16 2007
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From: "Natalia Shilenkova" <joseph67@example.org>
To: joseph67@example.org
Subject: Re: No inline metadata reader available for version ...
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On 9/28/07, ioffe <joseph67@example.org> wrote:
> Our xindice 1.1b4 db just stopped functioning this morning. I tried to figure
> out the problem myself, but Xindice project is complex.
>
> Here is the stacktrace with embedded style use.
>
> org.apache.xindice.core.meta.inline.InlineMetaException: No inline metadata
> reader available for version 32
>
> org.apache.xindice.core.meta.inline.InlineMetaService.readDatabaseEntry(InlineMetaService.java:134)
>         org.apache.xindice.core.Collection.getEntry(Collection.java:729)
>         org.apache.xindice.core.Collection.getDocument(Collection.java:570)
>         org.apache.xindice.server.UglyBrowser.getDetailView(UglyBrowser.java:187)
>         org.apache.xindice.server.UglyBrowser.doGet(UglyBrowser.java:82)
>         org.apache.xindice.server.XindiceServlet.doGet(XindiceServlet.java:84)

it looks like collection file got corrupted. There were number of
fixes since 1.1b4 for this kind of problem.

> Please, please, please help. I need to figure out what does it mean or at
> least how to retrieve the xml content this tbl? If the content is gone then
> I am majorly screwed (since it wasn't backuped). In the collection  I have
> to files(xsd and xml). xsd file is perfectly accessable, but xml file can
> not be read anymore.

Version 1.1 has xindice_rebuild utility that can read and rebuild
collections, but I am afraid in this particular case it won't help you
- it will just skip bad record, which isn't  what you want.

How big is the collection? Does it have sensitive data in it? I can
try to recover the document or at least parts of it from the tbl file
if it is possible for you to send the file to me. Cannot guarantee
success, however....

If you decide to go this route - please send tbl file, collection
configuration (located in system SysConfig collection) and symbol
table for the collection (located in system SysSymbols collection) to
my email. In any case, create a copy of a broken collection file so it
won't be damaged more than it already is.

Natalia

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Sat Sep 29 14:48:02 2007
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Thank you Natalia for your prompt reply. Well, I found the way out, by
reading .tbl file in a text editor and figured out certain patterns.
Afterwards a little python script did the wonders.I extracted my data
successfully  To the contrary of what manual says, the file is somewhat
readable. whew. I realized that I need to backup tbl religiously. 

Thanks again (Bolshoe spasibo) 

-Boris 



Natalia Shilenkova wrote:
> 
> On 9/28/07, ioffe <joseph67@example.org> wrote:
>> Our xindice 1.1b4 db just stopped functioning this morning. I tried to
>> figure
>> out the problem myself, but Xindice project is complex.
>>
>> Here is the stacktrace with embedded style use.
>>
>> org.apache.xindice.core.meta.inline.InlineMetaException: No inline
>> metadata
>> reader available for version 32
>>
>> org.apache.xindice.core.meta.inline.InlineMetaService.readDatabaseEntry(InlineMetaService.java:134)
>>         org.apache.xindice.core.Collection.getEntry(Collection.java:729)
>>        
>> org.apache.xindice.core.Collection.getDocument(Collection.java:570)
>>        
>> org.apache.xindice.server.UglyBrowser.getDetailView(UglyBrowser.java:187)
>>         org.apache.xindice.server.UglyBrowser.doGet(UglyBrowser.java:82)
>>        
>> org.apache.xindice.server.XindiceServlet.doGet(XindiceServlet.java:84)
> 
> it looks like collection file got corrupted. There were number of
> fixes since 1.1b4 for this kind of problem.
> 
>> Please, please, please help. I need to figure out what does it mean or at
>> least how to retrieve the xml content this tbl? If the content is gone
>> then
>> I am majorly screwed (since it wasn't backuped). In the collection  I
>> have
>> to files(xsd and xml). xsd file is perfectly accessable, but xml file can
>> not be read anymore.
> 
> Version 1.1 has xindice_rebuild utility that can read and rebuild
> collections, but I am afraid in this particular case it won't help you
> - it will just skip bad record, which isn't  what you want.
> 
> How big is the collection? Does it have sensitive data in it? I can
> try to recover the document or at least parts of it from the tbl file
> if it is possible for you to send the file to me. Cannot guarantee
> success, however....
> 
> If you decide to go this route - please send tbl file, collection
> configuration (located in system SysConfig collection) and symbol
> table for the collection (located in system SysSymbols collection) to
> my email. In any case, create a copy of a broken collection file so it
> won't be damaged more than it already is.
> 
> Natalia
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/No-inline-metadata-reader-available-for-version-...-tf4536933.html#a12956350
Sent from the Xindice - Users mailing list joseph67@example.org.


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On 9/29/07, ioffe <joseph67@example.org> wrote:
> Thank you Natalia for your prompt reply. Well, I found the way out, by
> reading .tbl file in a text editor and figured out certain patterns.
> Afterwards a little python script did the wonders.I extracted my data
> successfully  To the contrary of what manual says, the file is somewhat
> readable. whew. I realized that I need to backup tbl religiously.

I am glad you were able to fix the problem.  I would recommend you to
upgrade to Xindice 1.1 anyway, it has many bug fixes and more stable.

> Thanks again (Bolshoe spasibo)

You're welcome :)

Natalia

From xindice-usersjoseph67@example.org Sat Sep 29 15:55:31 2007
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Gildor Oronar wrote:
> As said, starting with 360,000 xml documents (all submitted by XForm) is 
> not a big amount, any NxD should work.

It's not small either :) It's a good sized database.


> Then how much documents can be a 
> problem that makes the project have to think which NxD to choose carefully?

I'd put cut offs first at 1 million documents, next at 10 millions, etc. 
Approximately, of course - there are no hard numbers here since a lot depends on 
document sizes, indeces, etc.


> I seriously lack background information on database scalability. I only 
> know for one time when a database capacity become a problem, that a 
> colleague of mine has worked on a project with Microsofot SQL server and 
> database crash at 3000 stimulated connection (and upgrade hardware 
> doesn't improve anything).

3000 simultaneous connections? It's not possible on windows! ;-)

Seriously, server should limit count of simultaneous connections to a reasonable 
number (which is related to count of cores in the server. Say, if you get 16 way 
box, you can set thread count to anywhere in 64-128 range, but probably not higher).


> I mean I just need to be careful, knowing 
> 360k documents is small thing is good, but what if we end up with 3600k 
> documents? I just wish to be aware what's the next level (of document 
> numbers) that I should be aware.
> 
> If the project I am working on is really successfull, it might reach 1 
> million documents in coming 3 years. I'd like to say this should be the 
> max I can guess.

You can read archives of xindice-users, -dev mailing lists. I remember there 
were reports on Xindice scalability. I think somebody had success running 
database with 10 millions documents. But I don't recall details.

Vadim


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