From smithpamela@example.org Wed Oct 15 08:13:02 1997
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Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:40:59 -0700
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From: Brian Behlendorf <smithpamela@example.org>
Subject: CVSup
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Now that apache.org is a FreeBSD box, we are beginning to explore using a
program called "cvsup".  Its basis is a program called "sup", which
essentially works as a remote-file-synchronization program; it allows a
site to maintain a mirror of a remote file tree in a very efficient manner.
 "cvsup" is an extension of this to use a CVS tree (when it exists) to
allow for "diffs" to be sent when a file changes, rather than resending the
whole file.  Thus, all in all it would be a more bandwidth-efficient method
of updating one of your mirror sites from the source.

Is this a program you're familiar with?  Would you consider using it?  More
importantly, if anonymous FTP were to be discontinued (except for the
programs in /dist of course) would any of you *not* be able to use cvsup?

Binaries for other platforms, as well as more information, can be found at

ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/CVSup/

	Brian


--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig   smithpamela@example.org

From smithpamela@example.org Wed Oct 15 09:34:50 1997
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From: Tornoci Laszlo <smithpamela@example.org>
To: Brian Behlendorf <smithpamela@example.org>
cc: smithpamela@example.org
Subject: Re: CVSup
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Hi,

what's wrong with anon ftp with the mirror perl script? I think
it is efficient enough bandwidth-wise. I can imagine that the
load may be high on your server when a new version comes out, but
as the saying goes: "If it works, don't fix it!"

                                     Yours: Laszlo


On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

> 
> Now that apache.org is a FreeBSD box, we are beginning to explore using a
> program called "cvsup".  Its basis is a program called "sup", which
> essentially works as a remote-file-synchronization program; it allows a
> site to maintain a mirror of a remote file tree in a very efficient manner.
>  "cvsup" is an extension of this to use a CVS tree (when it exists) to
> allow for "diffs" to be sent when a file changes, rather than resending the
> whole file.  Thus, all in all it would be a more bandwidth-efficient method
> of updating one of your mirror sites from the source.
> 
> Is this a program you're familiar with?  Would you consider using it?  More
> importantly, if anonymous FTP were to be discontinued (except for the
> programs in /dist of course) would any of you *not* be able to use cvsup?
> 
> Binaries for other platforms, as well as more information, can be found at
> 
> ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/CVSup/
> 
> 	Brian
> 
> 
> --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
> "it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig   smithpamela@example.org
> 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Laszlo L Tornoci                            Inst Pathophysiology
E-mail: smithpamela@example.org               Semmelweis Univ Med School
        smithpamela@example.org                 Nagyvarad ter 4.
fax:    727-365-3375                     Budapest, H-1089, Hungary
----------------------------------------------------------------------


From smithpamela@example.org Wed Oct 15 10:04:20 1997
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From: Wojtek Sylwestrzak <smithpamela@example.org>
Message-Id: <smithpamela@example.org>
Subject: Re: CVSup
To: smithpamela@example.org (Brian Behlendorf)
Date:	Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:03:02 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: smithpamela@example.org
In-Reply-To: <smithpamela@example.org> from "Brian Behlendorf" at Oct 15, 97 00:40:59 am
Organization: ICM, Warsaw University
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For a site like ours, runnning hunderds of different mirrors,
allowing for different approach for each one would be very difficult
and time consuming.
Therefore, we would prefer to stick to the current mirror.pl script.
We are considering to migrate to Lee's new mirror in java, once it's
proven stable, but not soon probably.

I'd suggest sticking to the current solution, unless there is something
wrong with it. 

--w

> 
> 
> Now that apache.org is a FreeBSD box, we are beginning to explore using a
> program called "cvsup".  Its basis is a program called "sup", which
> essentially works as a remote-file-synchronization program; it allows a
> site to maintain a mirror of a remote file tree in a very efficient manner.
>  "cvsup" is an extension of this to use a CVS tree (when it exists) to
> allow for "diffs" to be sent when a file changes, rather than resending the
> whole file.  Thus, all in all it would be a more bandwidth-efficient method
> of updating one of your mirror sites from the source.
> 
> Is this a program you're familiar with?  Would you consider using it?  More
> importantly, if anonymous FTP were to be discontinued (except for the
> programs in /dist of course) would any of you *not* be able to use cvsup?
> 
> Binaries for other platforms, as well as more information, can be found at
> 
> ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/CVSup/
> 
> 	Brian
> 
> 
> --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
> "it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig   smithpamela@example.org
> 


From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 08:58:01 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:55:53 +0900
From: Devendra Narayan <smithpamela@example.org>
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Wojtek Sylwestrzak wrote:
> 
> For a site like ours, runnning hunderds of different mirrors,
> allowing for different approach for each one would be very difficult
> and time consuming.
> Therefore, we would prefer to stick to the current mirror.pl script.
> We are considering to migrate to Lee's new mirror in java, once it's
> proven stable, but not soon probably.
> 
> I'd suggest sticking to the current solution, unless there is something
> wrong with it.

Same feelings here at SunSITE Japan :-(

Regards,
Devendra Narayan
Manager, SunSITE Japan
http://SunSITE.sut.ac.jp/
Oct. 16th. 1997
_________________________________________________________________
     ____/  /    / ___  ____/ Devendra Narayan
    /      /    /      /     Manager, Information Services Group,
 ____  /  /    /      /     REOIST, Science University of Tokyo
      /  /    /      /     1-3, Kagurazaka, Shinjuku Ku,
_____/ ______/    __/     Tokyo 162, Japan.
                         E-mail : smithpamela@example.org
"If you see someone without a smile, give one of your's"
_________________________________________________________________

From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 09:25:45 1997
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To: Brian Behlendorf <smithpamela@example.org>
cc: smithpamela@example.org, smithpamela@example.org
Subject: Re: CVSup 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:40:59 PDT."
             <smithpamela@example.org> 
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:25:12 +0200
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> Now that apache.org is a FreeBSD box, we are beginning to explore using=
 a
> program called "cvsup".  Its basis is a program called "sup", which
> essentially works as a remote-file-synchronization program; it allows a=

> site to maintain a mirror of a remote file tree in a very efficient man=
ner.
>  "cvsup" is an extension of this to use a CVS tree (when it exists) to
> allow for "diffs" to be sent when a file changes, rather than resending=
 the
> whole file.  Thus, all in all it would be a more bandwidth-efficient me=
thod
> of updating one of your mirror sites from the source.

I would like to suggest we might make better use of the resources already=

available and in place instead of searching for new ways to improve the
transport to the mirrors of www.apache.org.

One example of this is the recent newcomers perl.apache.org and
java.apache.org. The current links on www.apache.org and more importantly=

on its mirrors point to the central servers even though the links could b=
e
local to that server to ease the load on the central server and give
users quicker responses.

Perhaps the fact that the full perl.apache.org and java.apache.org seems =
to
be mirrored for no or little use is only temporary. You might be planning=

to set them us up us truly seperate servers be able to take a larger load=

on these now virtual servers. But the foreseen need of doing that could
become a self-fulfilling prophecy if you lead all requests back to the
central server instead of letting the network of mirrors cope with the
load. Of course I'm only speculating, both about your motives for
centralizing the perl- and java-info and the effects of different
solutions.

Therefore I suggest that the links in /related_projects.html points to th=
e
relative URLs /perl/ and /java/ instead of forcing the user back to the
central smithpamela@example.org.


Just my $0.02.


Wkr

/G

-- =

 G=F6ran =D6berg <smithpamela@example.org>        <URL:http://www.luth.se/~goggi=
/>
 Computer Support Center                       Adm./CoAdm. of
 Lule=E5 University, SWEDEN         {www,proxy,{www,apache}.dc,ftp}.luth.=
se
_________________________________________________________________________=



From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 10:01:32 1997
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From: Mustafa Akgul <smithpamela@example.org>
Message-Id: <smithpamela@example.org>
Subject: tar.Z  files
In-Reply-To: <smithpamela@example.org> from Goran Oberg at "Oct 16, 97 11:25:12 am"
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I have a  simple  question .
Why do we carry  tar.gz and  tar.Z versions  at the  same time?

I   think  carry  tar.gz is  enough. tar.Z's  are taking
bandwith and  disk  space.

wuftpd  supports  on the  fly  translation  from .tar.gz to
tar.Z, if  there  are people  who still can not handle  tar.gz.

Can we move away  from .Z files ?

Regards
Mustafa Akgul


From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 10:05:45 1997
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From: Wojtek Sylwestrzak <smithpamela@example.org>
Message-Id: <smithpamela@example.org>
Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
To: smithpamela@example.org (Mustafa Akgul)
Date:	Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:03:53 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: smithpamela@example.org
In-Reply-To: <smithpamela@example.org> from "Mustafa Akgul" at Oct 16, 97 01:01:12 pm
Organization: ICM, Warsaw University
Address: Pawinskiego 5A, 02-106 Warszawa, Poland
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> 
> 
> I have a  simple  question .
> Why do we carry  tar.gz and  tar.Z versions  at the  same time?
> 
> I   think  carry  tar.gz is  enough. tar.Z's  are taking
> bandwith and  disk  space.
> 
> wuftpd  supports  on the  fly  translation  from .tar.gz to
> tar.Z, if  there  are people  who still can not handle  tar.gz.
> 
> Can we move away  from .Z files ?
> 

I also would gladly live without tar.Z files.

--w

From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 10:12:04 1997
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From: Specula <smithpamela@example.org>
To: Mustafa Akgul <smithpamela@example.org>
Cc: smithpamela@example.org
Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
References: <smithpamela@example.org> <smithpamela@example.org>
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> Can we move away  from .Z files ?
It would be great ... but someone may still be using something
else than wuftpd (without on-fly conversion) ...

-- 
Martin

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email : smithpamela@example.org         SySAdM               Martin E. Bednarz 
PGP key fingerprint = 9A 67 74 9B 82 AE 0C 727-365-3375 A5 25 FC D1

From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 10:38:38 1997
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From: Wojtek Sylwestrzak <smithpamela@example.org>
Message-Id: <smithpamela@example.org>
Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
To: smithpamela@example.org (Specula)
Date:	Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:37:04 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: smithpamela@example.org, smithpamela@example.org
In-Reply-To: <smithpamela@example.org> from "Specula" at Oct 16, 97 12:09:03 pm
Organization: ICM, Warsaw University
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> 
> > Can we move away  from .Z files ?
> It would be great ... but someone may still be using something
> else than wuftpd (without on-fly conversion) ...
> 
> -- 
> Martin
> 

Or - check in the log files how many people are actually
retrieving *.Z files instead of *.gz ?

not too many from my site - and probably mostly by mistake ;-)

--w

From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 12:47:24 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:46:42 +0200
From: Juraj Bednar <smithpamela@example.org>
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To: smithpamela@example.org
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Hi,


  I'd like to use the CVSup. I've installed the binaries, but
  don't know what that *defaults and others things do. Please,
  send some bash script or something else, that will mirror
  Apache using CVSup.

  I also think, that .tar.Z files don't need to be distributed any
  more.






         Sincerely,
              Juraj Bednar.

From smithpamela@example.org Thu Oct 16 16:50:28 1997
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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:51:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dean Gaudet <smithpamela@example.org>
To: Brian Behlendorf <smithpamela@example.org>
cc: smithpamela@example.org
Subject: Re: CVSup
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I too prefer ftp for mirroring the site.  It works. 

I will likely put up a mirror cvsup server as well... but that's a
different issue...

Dean


From smithpamela@example.org Fri Oct 24 11:06:48 1997
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:05:27 +0200
From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" <smithpamela@example.org>
To: Mustafa Akgul <smithpamela@example.org>
Cc: smithpamela@example.org
Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
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In-Reply-To: <smithpamela@example.org>; from Mustafa Akgul on Thu, Oct 16, 1997 at 01:01:12PM +0300
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mustafa,

on a site with heavy ftp load or a combined server system it is unwise to
allow on the fly compression/archive conversion since this produces heavy
cpu load. 

/k

Mustafa Akgul (smithpamela@example.org) wrote:
> 
> I have a  simple  question .
> Why do we carry  tar.gz and  tar.Z versions  at the  same time?
> 
> I   think  carry  tar.gz is  enough. tar.Z's  are taking
> bandwith and  disk  space.
> 
> wuftpd  supports  on the  fly  translation  from .tar.gz to
> tar.Z, if  there  are people  who still can not handle  tar.gz.
> 
> Can we move away  from .Z files ?
> 
> Regards
> Mustafa Akgul

-- 
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From smithpamela@example.org Fri Oct 24 11:08:44 1997
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:08:25 +0200
From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" <smithpamela@example.org>
To: smithpamela@example.org
Cc: Specula <smithpamela@example.org>, smithpamela@example.org, smithpamela@example.org
Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
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mostly the people with payware(tm) un*x systems stick to .Z since their
boss would kill'em if they would use 'proprietary compression such as
gzip' (quote from one of our customers). 

/k


Wojtek Sylwestrzak (smithpamela@example.org) wrote:
> > 
> > > Can we move away  from .Z files ?
> > It would be great ... but someone may still be using something
> > else than wuftpd (without on-fly conversion) ...
> > 
> > -- 
> > Martin
> > 
> 
> Or - check in the log files how many people are actually
> retrieving *.Z files instead of *.gz ?
> 
> not too many from my site - and probably mostly by mistake ;-)
> 
> --w

-- 
"Nuclear war can ruin your whole compile." -- Karl Lehenbauer
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From smithpamela@example.org Fri Oct 24 11:28:51 1997
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From: Mustafa Akgul <smithpamela@example.org>
Message-Id: <smithpamela@example.org>
Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
To: smithpamela@example.org
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:25:13 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: smithpamela@example.org, smithpamela@example.org, smithpamela@example.org,
  smithpamela@example.org
In-Reply-To: <smithpamela@example.org> from "Karsten W. Rohrbach" at Oct 24, 97 01:08:25 pm
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> 
> mostly the people with payware(tm) un*x systems stick to .Z since their
> boss would kill'em if they would use 'proprietary compression such as
> gzip' (quote from one of our customers). 
> 
> /k

Is  gzip  proprietary? It is  copyleft as  far as I know.
payware unix  systems  are  providing  gunzip  at  least (which
gzip) by  default. netscape  does  not bother  with  .Z
Although  there  are  mirror  sites  carrying .Z  file,  mostly
they are moving towards .gz

I believe  we  should  move towards  .gz

Regards
Mustafa Akgul



From smithpamela@example.org Fri Oct 24 12:25:26 1997
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:25:12 +0200
From: Juraj Bednar <smithpamela@example.org>
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Subject: Re: tar.Z  files
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Hi,
> Is  gzip  proprietary? It is  copyleft as  far as I know.
> payware unix  systems  are  providing  gunzip  at  least (which
> gzip) by  default. netscape  does  not bother  with  .Z
> Although  there  are  mirror  sites  carrying .Z  file,  mostly
> they are moving towards .gz
> 
> I believe  we  should  move towards  .gz
I think so too. And boss sometimes doesn't know, what's
gzip and compress anyway.




    Juraj.

From smithpamela@example.org Mon Oct 27 19:36:39 1997
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Subject: New mirror
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Could be useful if mirror list is updated adding 

Web:

http://www.arrakis.es/pub/apache

FTP:

ftp.arrakis.es/pub/apache (SymLink to ftp.arrakis.es/mirrors/apache )

A hug.



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