#ubuntu-arb 2012-02-09 <highvoltage> how do I find an app again if it isn't listed on https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/arb/ ? <wendar> highvoltage: I have that problem too <wendar> at the moment there is no way <wendar> apparently BooruPy is a downloader for anime pr0n <highvoltage> seems like all I can do is paste https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps in my URL bar and then press down to check my browser history <wendar> I'm giving it a "not appropriate for general audiences". <highvoltage> sounds like the right response <wendar> highvoltage: oh, dpm's wiki page has links to the proposals <wendar> as much as I hate the idea of manually maintaining a queue outside the queue, it does have advantages <wendar> I guess see how we do with simple email thread tracking <wendar> an email folder is easy enough to search for previous entries <dpm> note that the wiki page was intended as a one-off, first-pass review to the queue as a helper (also https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/915902) <wendar> dpm: yeah, it's just tempting to maintain it, because it is helpful <wendar> dpm: but, resisting the temptation for now :) <dpm> wendar, no worries, happy if it's to be helpful in whichever way :) <wendar> so, the SSHSearch Lens that's in the queue as "Pending QA", is that an update to the one that's published? or is it just the same one, and needs to be bumped to a manual "ARB Published" state? <wendar> same question for the Utilities Lens and Ask Ubuntu Lens <stgraber> wendar: don't touch them! <stgraber> wendar: Pending QA == Published <wendar> yah, but can we clear them from the queue? <stgraber> wendar: we don't mark them as Published because of the Software Center bug <stgraber> wendar: if we mark them as anything but Pending QA, they'll either vanish or be moved to the "For purchase" section <wendar> last I cchatted with achuni, he said we could set up a special "ARB Published" state <wendar> that wouldn't bump it into visible status in the Commercial Queue <wendar> but, would clear it out of our queue <wendar> we want it out of our queue, right? <wendar> don't want to keep around all the past published apps? <stgraber> I kind of like to see them in the queue until the SRU has been published to 11.10 <stgraber> otherwise we'll forget which need fixing once the bug is solved (we'll need to drop the manually added metadata) <wendar> could we have them listed separately, then? <wendar> or, put them in an actual launchpad bug in the ARB queue? <stgraber> maybe, though the software-center SRU was supposed to be done 3 weeks ago, it's maybe just easier to push the SRU out and be done with the bug? <wendar> yes, if it's that close <stgraber> wendar: I just poked mvo <ajmitch> morning <stgraber> wendar: mvo says we should have the software-center SRU right after feature freeze <wendar> sweet! <wendar> ajmitch: good morning :) <stgraber> hmm, what just happened to pdf studio 7? (received an e-mail saying it's been published from arb) <ajmitch> was it in the commercial queue? <ajmitch> since I haven't seen an app of that name in the ARB queue yet <stgraber> well, it went to our mailing-list, so it should have been one of ours, though it might have been a bug in MyApps ;) * stgraber checks the commercial queue <ajmitch> it wouldn't be the first bug :) <stgraber> indeed :) <stgraber> yeah, I see it as pending review in commercial ... so probably was some kind of glitch <ajmitch> are magazines like the full circle magazine being bumped over to the commercial queue? <ajmitch> I know they don't fall within our content guidelines, as they're solely content <stgraber> yeah, these I usually send back to commercial when nobody from that team beats me to it <ajmitch> ah nice <ajmitch> I don't think regular ARB members have an option to change the queue, unless it's not obvious <stgraber> apparently the "send back to myapps" option is supposed to do it (if you see it) <stgraber> I usually just poke achuni on IRC :) * ajmitch can see a 'submit to myapps' button <stgraber> yeah, I think that's the one. I never confirmed that it indeed does what they say it does ;) <stgraber> and its name is just confusing... * ajmitch wonders if jono has heard any response on getting the source for myapps <ajmitch> I'm not holding my breath, but it doesn't really seem like a critical thing to keep proprietary <jono> ajmitch, talking with them now about it <ajmitch> thanks jono :) <jono> ajmitch, :-) <jono> ajmitch, which is the best email address to use for you? <jono> I want to copy you into a mail <jono> ajmitch, found your email, np <ajmitch> sorry for irc lag, am at work :) <ajmitch> jono: thanks for starting that conversation, I'll follow it up with david <jono> thanks ajmitch <wendar> framingham calculator is ready for vote <wendar> is anyone working on harmonyseq? <wendar> that's an old one, IIRC, just recently freshly submitted <ajmitch> wendar: yeah I've started on it again <wendar> ajmitch: cool, will pick another one <stgraber> wendar: is it in the staging PPA already? <stgraber> wendar: (the calculator) <wendar> stgraber: yes <stgraber> k <wendar> ready for vote <ajmitch> I think it'd be useful to import these packages into a branch so we can share the ARB changes a bit easier <ajmitch> mostly because it's simpler to see the revisions :) <wendar> ajmitch: I'm about to push my changes to a branch <ajmitch> great <wendar> but, I'm not sure whether to use an app-review-board branch, or an allison branch <wendar> any opinions? * ajmitch was just going to use a +junk branch under ~ajmitch <wendar> app-review-board would mean any members could edit it <wendar> but, just for viewing, ~allison is fine <wendar> (and, anyone can always branch mine and push their own) <ajmitch> yeah, I was thinking of it just for reviewing, it's easy enough to push to ~app-review-board later <ajmitch> ok, back later, another craighoward@example.net... :) <wendar> later :) <wendar> how about nsnake, anyone working on that one? <stgraber> wendar: commented on the mailing list <stgraber> so far I made a +junk branch under ~stgraber for each package I touched but it'd probably be interesting to move them under ~app-review-board <wendar> stgraber: for some reason your first email about the icon didn't come through <wendar> stgraber: but your second email referring to the first email did <wendar> stgraber: maybe just server lag, give it a bit <stgraber> wendar: I received my first e-mail back from the mailing-list, so something seems to be wrong on your end <wendar> stgraber: got it now, just some weird lag <wendar> stgraber: on dh_gencontrol, does have to be a png, or is an svg fine? The package currently only includes an svg, though the developer submitted pngs to MyApps. <stgraber> wendar: you need a png <wendar> stgraber: does resolution matter? go for the highest? <stgraber> wendar: what I did for the others was include the .png from myapps (the 128x128) manually in the source package <wendar> stgraber: in the debian directory? (I've been trying to limit changes to debian/ or debian/patches <stgraber> it's the one displayed in the software-center, I don't know exactly what size it uses but it's pretty big, so go for the highest <wendar> not really critical, I suppose, just inventing standards on the fly :) <stgraber> the lenses were native packages, so I directly put it in there next to their .svg, I guess in your case as it's source format 3, you can put it in debian/arb-icon-blah.png or something like that <stgraber> it doesn't really matter as long as it's copied outside the build environment at build time <stgraber> (that's a part that wasn't necessarily clear in what I copy/pasted, the ../ in there it doesn't really matter puts it outside the build environment, right next to the generated binary packages) #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-10 <dholbach> good morning #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-11 <ajmitch> wendar: sorry to be slow, I just +1ed the framingham calculator submission :) <wendar> ajmitch: cool #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-13 <dholbach> good morning <zoopster> mhall119: did we rectify the scope dep issues? <wendar> stgraber: I notice that none of the ARB apps are showing their icons in the Software Centre, is this expected? <stgraber> wendar: well, at least here if I click on them, then go back to the list, I get the icons <stgraber> wendar: that looks like a SC bug, hopefully will resolve itself with the switch to MyApps API <wendar> stgraber: I'm a little behind in updates, maybe I've got an older version of SC <wendar> I'm looking for a next app to pick off <wendar> but, not sure what ajmitch/highvoltage were working on <mhall119> zoopster: no, it was sent to the TB over a week ago for discussion, no resolution yet or even much feedback that I've seen <mhall119> zoopster: I have submitted my first package throuogh the developer portal though <wendar> mhall119: the TB ran out of time, the business remix conversation took most of the hour <mhall119> wendar: yeah, I was lurking <mhall119> hopefully they'll have time to discuss it in the ML and bring it up in the next meeting <wendar> mhall119: cool <mhall119> I have a long list of lenses/scopes to get packaged and submitted to the ARB, but how they get packaged will depend on the outcome of that meeting <wendar> yeah, it's a bit of a tricky one <wendar> seems like we've got a workable solution either way <wendar> (separate source packages, or treat each source package as a "mini distro" with all contributed scopes) <mhall119> yeah, but it's process-tricky, not technical-tricky, so I unfortunately I can't just code up a solution <wendar> yup <wendar> stgraber: is it safe to click "Approve" on the ARB MyApps review page? <wendar> stgraber: that just takes it to the "Pending QA" status, right? <stgraber> wendar: yeah, the first Approve is safe, the second one (from Pending QA) isn't <wendar> stgraber: what did you do when the Approve button complained about things that aren't relevant to extras? <wendar> (like archive id and PPA signing key) <stgraber> I simply entered some garbage in those fields ;) <stgraber> and complained about it to achuni <wendar> :) sounds good, I'll do the same <wendar> okay, sent the framingham dev information about the changes we made to the package <wendar> requested a real source tarball for Leds <wendar> working on Guallet next, unless anyone claims it <ajmitch> hi <ajmitch> wendar: top of my list was tagplayer, I was just touching up the patches for that & checking it before I push for voting <wendar> ajmitch: sweet! <wendar> guallet seems to be another one that's packaged well, but needs a few touchups for /opt install and eliminating the deprecated python-support dependency <ajmitch> yeah, I was going to do that after harmonyseq but please take it :) <wendar> cool, will do * ajmitch has picked a few of the changes to tagplayer from framingham, since they're both quickly apps <wendar> great, glad to have the work generally useful <wendar> I'm talking with the Quickly devs to see if we can get some of these changes upstream <ajmitch> yeah, though I think they were created with different versions of quickly <wendar> may not make it in time for Precise feature freeze <wendar> yeah, that's the thing, it really depends on what version of Ubuntu they're running, and what version of Quickly was included <wendar> some of the fixes did make it into Precise, so that's good <ajmitch> transitions dj is new? <wendar> stgraber: so, 'bzr builddeb' won't build a 3.0(native) format package with an '-0extras11.10.1' version number <ajmitch> or I guess it could be mail leaking in from the commercial queue again <wendar> stgraber: and, I notice all the unity lenses launched without the extras bit in their version numbers <wendar> stgraber: is this an exception to the version number policy? <stgraber> wendar: nope, that was me messing up the version numbers ;) <stgraber> and apparently nobody noticing ;) <wendar> ajmitch: I don't see it in the ARB queue, so must be a leaking message <ajmitch> stgraber: we're bad people for not noticing that :) <wendar> stgraber: well, technically the extras version number is wrong with a native format package <wendar> stgraber: I wonder if I can find a way to make bzr builddeb ignore that fact... <wendar> stgraber: I suppose I can just switch it over to 3.0(quilt) format <ajmitch> you could get it to create an orig.tar.gz, but I don't know if that needs some information in the branch for that <ajmitch> should I set a priority on https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/915902 ? <ajmitch> it's a little frustrating not being able to see the needs info submissions <stgraber> ajmitch: can you? <stgraber> (as in, set a priority) <ajmitch> now that you mention it, no, it's not editable to me :) <ajmitch> darn <stgraber> ajmitch: please feel free to post a comment every time it annoys you though <ajmitch> stgraber: have you filed bugs for needing junk info in some fields before approving an app? <stgraber> I don't think so, there might be one somewhere though. I only remember complaining about it in person to achuni and mvo ;) * ajmitch wants to have all the bugs in LP <ajmitch> if you don't have time to do it, I'll try & remember to put it in when tagplayer gets approved <ajmitch> I understand that you may be a little busy this week with feature freeze :) <stgraber> bah, not that bad, I only have around 8 new packages to upload today, then work items for the rest of the week and another batch of upload on Thursday ;) <stgraber> and I spent all morning debugging upstart ;) <ajmitch> suddenly, the allure of working for the foundations team is slipping away ;) <ajmitch> wendar: thank you for updating the Review/Guidelines page <wendar> ajmitch: welcome <wendar> ajmitch: jumping around to all those scattered pages to remember all the requirements has been driving me nuts :) <wendar> ajmitch: I still need to add the security guidelines * ajmitch isn't sure how vague we're keeping those <wendar> some are pretty specific <ajmitch> since vague is good for giving us some leeway, but not great for developers <wendar> like sudo, su, sg, gksudo, gksu, pkexec are not allowed, ever <wendar> no cron jobs <ajmitch> right, nor writing files outside of /home, which can cut out quite a few apps <wendar> no adding to apt sources, or adding ppas, or adding to keyrings <wendar> yup <wendar> so, definitely worth listing the hard guidelines <wendar> and we could add an item something to the effect that we may find security problems not listed during review <ajmitch> a package can't install other packages, can it? I'm thinking of the case of a music player using the codec installer <wendar> I recall a policy to that effect, but can't find it <wendar> maybe it's on the original post release apps page instead of the security page? * wendar looks <wendar> oh, it is on the security guidelines, just not clearly worded "cannot install/upgrade software with this software " <wendar> That's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostReleaseApps/SecurityChecklist <ajmitch> yeah, the security guidelines were written early on, I think we have some flexibility with that <wendar> aye <wendar> but, on the whole, I'd say we stick with it <wendar> unless there's a really good reason not to <ajmitch> fair enough <wendar> the security checklist wasn't part of the reviewed/approved TB policy, so we use our own judgement #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-14 <stgraber> wendar: around? <wendar> stgraber: yup <stgraber> wendar: i found why you don't get the icon for the calculator <stgraber> wendar: typo in debian/control <stgraber> wendar: your Icon field contains .svg where it should be .png <stgraber> I confirmed that here I can see all the icons in SC except for that one, so that must be the issue <wendar> stgraber: ah, makes sense <stgraber> wendar: can you fix and upload a new version to the PPA? <wendar> I can't see any of the icons, but probably an older version of SC <wendar> Yup, I'll do that now <stgraber> cool, thanks * ajmitch wonders if we should make a general rule to push package branches to the app-review-board project after uploading to the PPA <stgraber> as I said, here it's not perfect either, it takes some convincing to get SC to load the icons the first time (opening the app page usually does the trick), then it uses it fine <ajmitch> though keeping them in sync may be problematic <wendar> stgraber: ah, if I do that it works for the lenses <stgraber> wendar: ok, same behavior I have here then, just doesn't work with the calculator because it's actually broken ;) <wendar> stgraber: not perfect, but a usable work around until the SC bug is fixed <stgraber> yeah ... <stgraber> I need to make a note to poke mvo on Friday about the SRU <ajmitch> are there any changes that really need to go into precise? I expect that as an LTS, there'll be submissions targetting precise for quite awhile <wendar> ajmitch: most of the changes we need are on the server side of SC <wendar> ajmitch: so, not so much bound by release cycles <ajmitch> what about development tools like quickly? <stgraber> I think we're mostly good in Precise, wouldn't hurt to publish an app for testing though. I usually copy one of the small apps for that (the lenses will fail because of API mismatch). <ajmitch> sorry if I'm drifting off-topic :) <ajmitch> stgraber: I'll update my LP lens for precise soon, it could be used to test breakage * stgraber goes out to grab some food, bbiab <stgraber> ajmitch: that'd be nice <wendar> stgraber: fix submitted, thanks for the catch! <dholbach> good morning <ajmitch> morning dholbach <dholbach> hi ajmitch * ajmitch just got home, tuesdays are long days :) <stgraber> whoever takes care of the new lenses/scopes in the queue, let me know if you need any help with apparmor <stgraber> (it's not strictly mandatory but really a good idea to ship a profile as it's fairly easy to do for the unity extensions) <wendar> why do all these app developers add "-public#" to their version numbers <wendar> ? <wendar> it's like they're all reading the same odd app development guide <wendar> but, no clue where they're getting it from <wendar> is anyone working on Revision Monitor <wendar> and, any opinions on whether we should require the Guallet developer to fix the translations on that one screen before we launch? <wendar> (it's not one of our strict criteria, but seems to fit with the idea of being "useful for general audiences") <ajmitch> it'd be nice to get the translation fixed before uploading <ajmitch> that's interesting, mixd.tv was submitted as a binary package, gpl v2, and the website download page requires logging in for a private beta <wendar> it may be that the GPLv2 license is a mistake <wendar> and, it actually belongs on the "no cost, proprietary" side <wendar> ajmitch: I asked him for the source anyway <wendar> ajmitch: I also asked Guallet to fix the translation problem <ajmitch> ok <wendar> ajmitch: if mixd.tv responds and says "I don't want to release the source" then we bounce it back to John Pugh <ajmitch> fair enough, that's what I'd expect, but I don't think I've got a button to do that <stgraber> Submit to MyApps is supposed to do that (as weirdly as it's called ...) <ajmitch> oh right :) <wendar> ajmitch: actually, you may want to add a comment to mixd.tv asking about the private beta thing <wendar> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/627/feedback/ <wendar> ajmitch: they do say it's "open source" on the website, but, don't seem to be distributing it... <ajmitch> wendar: commented <ajmitch> I *think* that comment gets emailed to the submitter <wendar> ajmitch: yeah, I *think* so too, but not entirely sure <wendar> ajmitch: those comments don't get forwarded to the app-review-board list, which is what made me doubt <wendar> ajmitch: so I also emailed my comment (on crabhack) to the author, just to make sure they got it <wendar> ajmitch: and, he replied to my email <wendar> ajmitch: <shrug> #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-16 <dpm> good morning all <jono> morning dpm <jono> ...and I head to bed <jono> night! <dpm> hey jono, good night! <jono> night! <ajmitch> morning <stgraber> hey ajmitch * ajmitch is happy at how much faster it is to build packages now <ajmitch> I've pushed tagplayer with some patches to lp:~ajmitch/+junk/extras-tagplayer <highvoltage> ajmitch: why is it faster? <ajmitch> highvoltage: SSD to replace my hard drive <ajmitch> it took ~45 min a couple of weeks ago to build a simple python package, because the hard drive was so very very slow <highvoltage> ajmitch: ah nice. <ajmitch> ok, I can see that I made a mistake with icon naming in that branch, don't try & build it yet :) <highvoltage> I switched to sssd a few months ago and any machine with a spinny disk just feels broken now <ajmitch> yeah, the difference is really noticeable <ajmitch> stgraber: what do you suggest for packages that ship apport hooks? * ajmitch isn't sure if it's something standard in quickly or not <stgraber> ajmitch: oh, hmm, well, it's susprising that they do and it doesn't make sense to have them in /opt but I think we'd need a policy change for that <ajmitch> tagplayer has: <ajmitch> -rw-r--r-- root/root 185 2012-02-17 10:55 ./etc/apport/crashdb.conf.d/tagplayer-crashdb.conf <ajmitch> if the filename doesn't matter, we could possibly change it to extras-tagplayer-crashdb.conf <stgraber> oh wait, actually I think the policy change I got the TB to approve covers these <stgraber> well, not explicitly, but they are covered as long as we agree with the apport guys on what the files should be called and make sure there can't be any conflict <ajmitch> right <stgraber> (similar to the unity stuff and /usr/share/applications) <ajmitch> something to follow up with them on the file naming then <wendar> mhall119: I only see 0.2 of unity-community-lens in the scopes-packagers PPA, is that the one you want us to review? <wendar> mhall119: the comments say 0.3 <mhall119> wendar: huh, I dput it and saw it building.... <wendar> mhall119: (I had started making the tweaks needed for ARB, but then noticed the comment, and want to make sure I get the latest version, so I'm not duplicating work you already did) <mhall119> wendar: are the tweaks something I can make in my source package? <mhall119> I want to use this as a template for others <wendar> mhall119: ah, might just be slow in the build queue <wendar> mhall119: yes, definitely, I was going to submit them to you as a patch <wendar> mhall119: if you'd rather, I could do it as a bzr branch, that's what I've been doing for a lot of others <mhall119> wendar: I'm not even seeing it in the build queue, maybe I dput it to the wrong place <mhall119> wendar: bzr branch and MP would be great <wendar> mhall119: what's the bzr repo? <mhall119> https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/onehundredscopes/unity-community-lens <mhall119> hmm, doesn't look like I dput version craighoward@example.net it now <mhall119> it has some fixes to point things to /opt in that version <wendar> mhall119: yup, it's most of the way there, just a few small bits remaining <wendar> (and, actually, you may have caught all the bits now, I was looking at the 0.1 package in MyApps <wendar> before I saw the comment about 0.3) <mhall119> wendar: I'm EOD, but feel free to PM me and I'll read it in the morning <mhall119> or, I suppose, comment on it in myapps, there's a system for that isn't there? <wendar> mhall119: okay <wendar> mhall119: I'll work on a branch and you can review it tomorrow <wendar> mhall119: yes, I'll use the comment system, but that doesn't work terribly well for sharing code patches <mhall119> thanks wendar! <ajmitch> wendar: file bugs, I know I need to file a few about developer-portal behaviour <ajmitch> having the initial comment only in the feedback tab isn't the most obvious place to look, for example :) <wendar> ajmitch: so far, I really like the pattern of working on branches, when they provide the info <ajmitch> branches provide a nice way to track the changes & be able to view the packaging online <ajmitch> even if it's just a ppa submission, bzr import-dsc should work <ajmitch> wendar: it'd be really nice to require submissions as a branch, but I think as a PPA is best, since it requires at least a source package <wendar> ajmitch: aye, and with a PPA, we know it builds, which is a plus <wendar> ajmitch: and, that's a good point, we can certainly create a bzr branch straight from a ppa, for sharing changes <wendar> mhall119: ah, yup, you did pick up some of the fixes in 0.2 and 0.3, great! #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-17 <mhall119> wendar: are there any extras packages for Precise yet? <mhall119> "Independent" isn't showing in my USC <ajmitch> there aren't <mhall119> so maybe mine will be first? cool <ajmitch> this did start off as the 'post-release apps' process <ajmitch> mhall119: are you trying to submit apps for precise now? <mhall119> ajmitch: yeah <ajmitch> stgraber would know more than I would, but I don't know if that is open for uploads to be copied to it now or not <ajmitch> while there's a precise Sources.gz file on extras.ubuntu.com, there are a few things that happen behind the scenes <wendar> mhall119: we won't be accepting apps for precise until after the precise release <wendar> mhall119: but we can get it into Oneiric now, and then add to Precise as soon as it's launched <wendar> mhal119: or, does it depend on features of Precise? <ajmitch> bit hard to do that when the lense API is different <wendar> (I haven't tried compiling it yet) <ajmitch> I think that it'd make sense to accept apps for precise after feature freeze <wendar> ajmitch: current policy is only the "current release" of Ubuntu <ajmitch> like backports is meant to be opening up at FF, not sure if that's been done or not <wendar> I do know backports is opening at FF <wendar> yeah, I don't know if they've done it yet <wendar> but, if it's targeting Precise, why not just put it in using the standard process? <wendar> that avoids all the /opt stuff <ajmitch> wendar: right, at FF the platform should be viable for building & releasing apps on, but there could be changes <ajmitch> I'd certainly prefer it to just go in via the standard process <wendar> ajmitch: as in, the non-ARB process? <mhall119> wendar: unfortunately the version of Singlet my lens depends on is only in Precise <ajmitch> wendar: right, the non-ARB process or even into backports if it's open <mhall119> wendar: Can I propose my Singlet package (modified to run on Oneiric) to the ARB, and then submit the lens for Oneiric too? <wendar> ajmitch: backports only accepts packages once they've been approved for some release of Ubuntu, generally the current development release <wendar> mhall119: Extras doesn't accept libraries, only "leaf" applications <ajmitch> wendar: not necessarily true with the current proposal, which is meant to acecpt new packages which can then be copied into the next release as it opens <mhall119> wendar: yeah, i know <ajmitch> the intention behind backports opening early is to have a way to upload new packages all through the 6-month cycle <wendar> mhall119: I'd say Singlet could be backported, but Extras can't automatically enable a backport, so that's problematic too <wendar> mhall119: since FF is upon us, I think the best option is getting it ready to go for Precise Extras <mhall119> I'm okay with not getting this into Oneiric, I just want to get something through the ARB process, preferabbly before Precise is released, so I know how to help other devs <ajmitch> it might be a trial app to see if it can be put into precise extras pre-release <wendar> mhal119: I'd say it's not really a huge deal if we publish it a few weeks before the actual Precise launch date <wendar> (for testing) <mhall119> wendar: there are a *lot* of lenses and scopes waiting to be packaged and send to the ARB, so unity-community-lens is going to be both a trial run and it's packaging files will serve as a template for others <wendar> but, we may have to have some policy conversations around that <mhall119> wendar: that's okay <wendar> like, in general, unlike backports, Extras shouldn't be on a "open as soon as FF hits" policy <mhall119> better now, while we still have some time <wendar> yup <wendar> and, if all the lenses depend on Precise features, it may be that we get them all lined up in the staging PPA <wendar> and, just ready to launch as soon as Precise hits <mhall119> wendar: they don't all, currently, most will need to be upgraded to support Precise <wendar> (or, soon before Precise hits) <wendar> mhall119: okay, those are actually easier * ajmitch still needs to hack up his lens for precise :) <wendar> mhall119: we can launch them for Oneiric, and then start the upgrade for Precise <mhall119> well, I can't guarantee that they're ready for Oneiric either :) <mhall119> will packages in extras automatically be upgraded to Precise? <mhall119> I thought devs had to resubmit <wendar> mhall119: the general idea is to give developers notice of each upcoming so they can transition <mhall119> ok <ajmitch> I was going to update unity-lens-launchpad & push it through to test uploading for precise <ajmitch> something for the weekend <wendar> mhall119: aye, no automatic transition, just an opportunity for the dev to prepare to resubmit <mhall119> wendar: ajmitch: do you think we should have some kind of naming convention for lenses and scopes? <wendar> mhall119: I was wondering about that <ajmitch> mhall119: yes, I'd follow what's in the main archive <mhall119> I have unity-<project>-lens, ajmitch has unity-lens-<project> <wendar> mhall119: I noticed most are unity-lens-<project> <ajmitch> where they were originally unity-place-X, now unity-lens-X <wendar> mhall119: yeah, one of the comments in my notes is "should this be named unity-lens-community?" <mhall119> ok, I should probably change mine then <wendar> I've seen "unity-scope-*" too <ajmitch> we renamed the askubuntu lens to match the others <mhall119> yeah, that makes more sense that way * ajmitch should probably remember to apply for UDS sponsorship before next week as well :) <wendar> mhall119: if you want to do that renaming, I can hold off on my branch <wendar> mhall119: actually, I'll just send you my current changelog, that pretty much says everything <mhall119> ajmitch: yeah, you should do that ;) <mhall119> wendar: thanks <wendar> and, you can look at unity-lens-sshsearch for the details <mhall119> ok <ajmitch> we should hopefully get some resolution on whether scopes can depend on lenses at the next TB meeting <mhall119> ajmitch: is it on their agenda yet? <ajmitch> if you haven't added it, you should <ajmitch> actually <ajmitch> it says that a TB person should, so stgraber? :) <ajmitch> afaik people add items themselves & then turn up at the meeting <stgraber> just add it yourself, unless you want me to introduce the topic at the meeting but I doubt it's in mhall119 or jono's best interest of having me present it ;) <ajmitch> heh <mhall119> stgraber: gah, I just sent an email to the TB about it <mhall119> oh well, I'll just look impatient <ajmitch> they'll forgive you, I'm sure * mhall119 is going to owe stgraber some edubuntu contributions for this <ajmitch> bribery now? :) <mhall119> what do you mean 'now'? <mhall119> :) <mhall119> wendar: I don't think there's any standard or convention for dbus names/paths on lenses or scopes, but I'll ask <mhall119> for the /opt/ path, should it use /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/<project_name>-<version>/ ? <mhall119> is the version number in there necessary? <wendar> mhall119: that's the standard approved by the TB <wendar> but, we haven't always followed it strictly <mhall119> are we allowed to submit new versions for the same release? <wendar> (none of the other lenses do) * ajmitch didn't follow that for tagplayer <ajmitch> since you shouldn't be able to have multiple versions installed at once, it shouldn't matter <wendar> mhall119: yes, it still runs through an ARB review, but it's usually a quicker review since we only need to look at the diff <wendar> ajmitch: I'm not particularly attached to the version in the path <mhall119> wendar: on the .service file rename you did, is that an ARB requirement? <wendar> ajmitch: it was in the original spec, so I copied it into the guidelines <wendar> mhall119: yes, prepending 'extras-' to the .service and .lens files is an ARB requirement <mhall119> ok <wendar> mhall119: basically, any files that have to be installed in the "standard" locations <wendar> mhall119: it's the same for .desktop files <ajmitch> the reason for the naming to to avoid namespace conflicts <ajmitch> which is why I don't think the version is important in the filename or path <ajmitch> I'm sure the TB won't jump on us too harshly if we get it wrong <stgraber> yeah, I usually don't put the version in the path as it's not possible to have multiple version with the same package name installed anyway <ajmitch> right :) <mhall119> are you guys working with anybody to incorporate these requirements into what Quickly produces? <stgraber> and it makes updating the package harder in most cases <wendar> ajmitch: stgraber: actually, I'm not finding the source for the <appname>-<version> requirement on the /opt path <ajmitch> wendar: great, we can ignore it then :) <stgraber> I think it's just how we did the first app and it stuck ;) <wendar> ajmitch: stgraber: and, it always struck me as a little silly, so I'll just drop it from the guidelines <ajmitch> mhall119: I think that bugs have been filed against quickly to make it produce apps using the right paths, etc, but I'm not sure what # <wendar> mhall119: so, you can stick with /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/unity-lens-community/... <mhall119> ok, I'll look <mhall119> wendar: alright <ajmitch> it would be great to reduce the patching that we have to do to 0 <mhall119> yeah <mhall119> I'm hoping to do that for singlet lenses/scopes at least * ajmitch is having issues at the moment getting a simple patch to be applied, have to track down what's going on <wendar> mhall119: yeah, I asked around and joined the Quickly talk mailing list to discuss changes with them <wendar> mhall119: Rick is happy to have folks propose changes in branches to be merged <mhall119> wendar: Rick? <wendar> mhall119: mainly, I think Quickly just doesn't have much active development at the moment <wendar> mhall119: Spencer, creator of Quickly <mhall119> oh, I don't think he's maintaining it anymore, TOny Bryne is I think, though didrocks has been helping me <mhall119> I'm writing a singlet-lens template for it now <ajmitch> ah, nice <wendar> mhall119: ah, I haven't seen the name Tony Bryne at all yet <wendar> mhall119: it's mainly mvo who's made the changes I requested so far <wendar> mhall119: (as recently as a few weeks ago) <mhall119> ah, it's Byrne, not Bryne <mhall119> but still <ajmitch> I'm surprised that quickly is just in universe <wendar> ajmitch: it's not really core to Ubuntu <wendar> ajmitch: it's just the recent promotion on developer.ubuntu.com that made it appear so <ajmitch> wendar: no, but it's something that could be pushed more, along with other content creation <wendar> ajmitch: I'm actually happy to have it made more core, but definitely needs some work to get there <mhall119> ajmitch: I think it needs more active and devoted maintenance before it gets there <wendar> ajmitch: particularly, it needs updating to GTK3 for Precise <ajmitch> is diveintopython still on the CD images? :) <ajmitch> wendar: it's still using pygtk? <wendar> ajmitch: yup pygtk <wendar> ajmitch: diveintopython was on the CD images last I checked, but that was Natty <ajmitch> does quickly use dh_python2 instead of python-support now? <wendar> ajmitch: it must have been removed now, the book is 8 years old <ajmitch> 8 years old but still in main <wendar> ajmitch: it doesn't, it still uses python-support <wendar> ajmitch: I have to manually update quickly packages <ajmitch> right, that's what I was doing with tagplayer as well <ajmitch> are there bugs filed about that? <wendar> ajmitch: though, mvo said he made some updates for Precise, I'll check trunk and see if he updated that <wendar> ajmitch: I didn't file bugs, yet, just emailed to ask if there were plans for the updates <wendar> ajmitch: we should start promoting http://diveintopython3.ep.io/ :) * ajmitch likes the concept of 1 right way to write an app, make a package that can be approved with minimal work * wendar too <ajmitch> maybe something to aim for for the next LTS? :) <wendar> ajmitch: seems sensible <mhall119> wendar: quickly uses python-mkdebian, which builds debian package files from the setup.py, I think that's where we need to switch things to dh_python2 <wendar> mhall119: ah, that makes sense <wendar> mhall119: I wonder if that's a change to make all the way upstream in Debian? <ajmitch> is that the package name? <ajmitch> I can't find it on precise <wendar> mhall119: or, further upstream? is it a Python package? <ajmitch> the closest I know of is python-stdeb <mhall119> wendar: it's from python-distutils-extra, by Martin Pitt <wendar> ah-ha, pitti beat us to it <wendar> https://code.launchpad.net/~python-distutils-extra-hackers/python-distutils-extra/debian <wendar> revision 274 <wendar> hopefully, that made it into Precise <ajmitch> right <mhall119> I'll check with pitti tomorrow <ajmitch> that's the version in precise now <wendar> sweet! <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/+bug/894582 should be fixed then <mhall119> hmmm, I guess I need to update <ajmitch> so the bug was originally filed against quickly <wendar> ah, that's my bug <mhall119> lol <ajmitch> wendar: yep :) <wendar> forgot I filed it :) <ajmitch> I knew I'd seen one filed from the ARB somewhere <dholbach> good morning <dpm> good morning all <coolbhavi> mhall119, hi <mhall119> hey coolbhavi <coolbhavi> hey mhall119 how you doing? <coolbhavi> saw your ubuntu community lenses on ARB queue <coolbhavi> and its a cool app <coolbhavi> :) <mhall119> thanks coolbhavi <coolbhavi> Thanks to you for making a simple and cool app :D <mhall119> I'm not sure it quite qualifies to be called an 'app' <mhall119> but I hope people like it <coolbhavi> I liked it :D <coolbhavi> can you give me the ppa link btw m interested in digging more <mhall119> coolbhavi: https://launchpad.net/~scopes-packagers/+archive/ppa <coolbhavi> mhall119, thanks! <coolbhavi> mhall119, only thing I found is in oneiric it fails to install Dependency is not satisfiable: gir1.2-unity-5.0 <coolbhavi> can you have a backport option for this? <mhall119> coolbhavi: I'd have to get python-unity-singlet into backports, but extras packages can't enable the packports repo <mhall119> so, not relaly <mhall119> coolbhavi: this is targetting Precise only <mhall119> I discussed with wendar and ajmitch yesterday, we'll work on getting this ready to land, and hold off until closer to Precise's release <coolbhavi> mhall119, yes but I meant backport as in a ppa build <mhall119> coolbhavi: it would take some work <mhall119> the Lens API is different between Oneiric and Precise <mhall119> the parts of Singlet this one uses didn't even exist in the version of Singlet that supported Oneiric <coolbhavi> hmmm I wished to see support for different versions of ubuntu so I asked if its complicated then little sense in going through pains <mhall119> actually that might be nice to have in Singlet, have it auto-detect the version of Unity and change how it works accordingly <mhall119> though the issue with backports and extras still means it won't easily allow singlet lenses into Oneiric <coolbhavi> hmm yes I understand the complexity at this point of time <cwayne> hi, just wondering if my app accidentally went into the commercial queue again <ajmitch> what is your app? <cwayne> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/513/ <ajmitch> quite likely, since I don't have access to see that <coolbhavi> ajmitch, me too <cwayne> ugh, who can i talk to to fix that? <cielak> dpm, are there still any chances of finding some work for me? <stgraber> looking <stgraber> fixed <stgraber> oh, actually, looking at the description this seems to be content only package (no actual app)? <stgraber> if so, commercial (with a $0 cost) would be the right place as the ARB only accepts actual apps <stgraber> (this comment is just based on a 5s read of the page, I may be completely wrong) * ajmitch should really not be awake at this hour hacking on stuff <ajmitch> right, LP lens shows stuff on precise now <ajmitch> not much useful stuff though :) <cwayne> stgraber: really? i was told it should still go through the ARB <ajmitch> told by who? the ARB has always had a fairly strict policy on what submissions can go through that process <cwayne> david pitkin <cwayne> maybe i misheard him? <stgraber> cwayne: whoever told you that didn't read the ARB guidelines ;) <stgraber> cwayne: "Submissions should be applications, not stand-alone documentation or media (image bundles, fonts, movies). " <stgraber> cwayne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines <ajmitch> could be that he doesn't know the policy as approved by the TB, he might be working solely off price & license <dpm> cielak, sure, I'd recommend talking to the other guys in this channel, I'm sure they'd be happy to get more contributors <stgraber> that sounds likely indeed. I'll mention it to David and bounce the app back to the commercial queue <ajmitch> as amusing as rage faces would be... <stgraber> done <cwayne> ajmitch: hah, yeah, it makes irc much more fun :P <cwayne> stgraber: ok, so what do I do now? is it in the right queue? <highvoltage> good morning <ajmitch> morning highvoltage <highvoltage> wow, still awake ajmitch? :) <stgraber> cwayne: yep, it's in the right queue now and should be handled by dpitkin's team <ajmitch> highvoltage: more that I went to bed really early & ended up waking up at ~3 :) * ajmitch should probably have had dinner before crashing though, I wonder if it's too early to have it for breakfast <highvoltage> my 2012 sleep policy is that if I'm inspired/excited/can't-sleep... then I should use the time instead of trying to sleep and just getting frustrated and waste the time <highvoltage> not sure how well that will work, but I guess it's worth a try :) <highvoltage> (moving 7 hours west does wonders for sleep though :) ) <ajmitch> going to bed at 7 & getting up at 3:30 might be pushing it a bit <highvoltage> yeah :) <ajmitch> but at least I got some code working, I just have to get the package updated for it now <cielak> ajmitch, you've mentioned some time ago that you are willing to review harmonyseq soon - are you in the middle of reviewing it? because if not, I might upload few updates to the packaging, according to recent changes in the Review/Guidelines (both to ARB queue and the PPA) <ajmitch> upload away, I was trying to finish off another app before moving onto yours again <ajmitch> which I should get done today <cielak> right - just wanted to ensure I won't interrupt your work <cielak> okay - done ;) #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-20 <dholbach> good morning <dpm> morning <ajmitch> morning <cielak> morning <cielak> I got confused by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda <cielak> it says the meetings take place on the last friday of every month <cielak> and that the next one is on Friday 29th February <cielak> but 29th February is actually Wednesday <cielak> am I missing something? <ajmitch> no, you're not, it was edited wrong <cielak> okay, thanks :) <ajmitch> I think highvoltage must have a different calendar to the rest of us :) <cielak> ahh... silly timezones! :))) <highvoltage> hi! <highvoltage> oh crap <ajmitch> highvoltage: yeah, it should be this friday * highvoltage updates it <ajmitch> might be worth sending out a mail to the list about it <highvoltage> will do <ajmitch> thanks :) <cielak> maybe you've meant the 31st of February? that would indeed be Friday :) <highvoltage> hah, I messed it up again (only noticed it as I sent the email) <ajmitch> should be Octember imho <highvoltage> (made it for 22 Feb, *this* wednesday) <micahg> TB discussion of ARB exceptions for lenses and scopes for those interested <micahg> #ubuntu-meeting <stgraber> highvoltage: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=App+Review+Board+Meeting+&iso=20110127T18 says Thursday ;) <cielak> stgraber: isn't it the previous meeting's day? <highvoltage> stgraber: that's fixed too now :) <stgraber> highvoltage: thanks * ajmitch needs to work out what was actually agreed on at that TB meeting & what we need to decide this week <mhall119> stgraber: wendar: do you want me to add this item to the ARB agenda? <wendar> mhall119: yes, please do <wendar> mhall119: and thanks! <ajmitch> stgraber: one thing that jumps to mind when having everything in one source package - everytime you want to add a new lens or scope you have to rebuild the lot, and everyone has to download the rebuilt binary package <stgraber> ajmitch: yeah, I mentioned it at the end of the mail <ajmitch> oh you did too :) <stgraber> ajmitch: in the case of unity stuff, we're talking 2kB python scripts mostly, so may be a bit annoying to the user but it won't kill their or our bandwidth <stgraber> and it may been seen as a feature as they'll see the lens get updated and so will know that something new is available for it (if they actually read the changelog) <ajmitch> right, source package per lens may not be too bad, depending on the lens & how popular it is #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-21 <dholbach> good morning <ajmitch> hi dholbach <dholbach> hey :) #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-22 <dholbach> good morning <highvoltage> good morning <cielak> hello <ajmitch> morning <cielak> hello! <wendar> is anyone else working on Dino, before I dive into packaging changes in a branch? <wendar> highvoltage, ajmitch: I'm avoiding the older packages that you mentioned you were working on, but if you want to "unclaim" any of them, let me know <ajmitch> wendar: ok :) <ajmitch> sorry I haven't spent much time on this over the last couple of weeks <wendar> dino is ~4k lines of .cpp, but it's mostly just essential Qt boiler-plate <ajmitch> that's the file manager app? <wendar> not overly complex, so I'm inclined to take it as satisfying the "simple app" side <wendar> ajmitch: yeah, the file manager <wendar> ajmitch: no worries on time <wendar> ajmitch: I happen to have a few weeks of paid time off, so I figure it's a good time to help us catch up <wendar> ajmitch: the influx of new apps is easy enough to keep up with <ajmitch> ah, you did decide to take some time off? <wendar> ajmitch: it's just the backlog that's hurting us <ajmitch> thanks for keeping up with them & responding as they've come in <ajmitch> I really want to see what apps are waiting in the needs info state <wendar> ajmitch: we have a bug for that feature? * ajmitch filed a bug about it but it's had no response <wendar> ajmitch: I'm sure they'd be willing to give us a one-off dump, even before a full feature is added <ajmitch> I'm worried that we're missing feedback from authors <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/915902 for the "can't see them" <wendar> ajmitch: shouldn't they pop up again as soon as the author says anything? <ajmitch> that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/927588 <ajmitch> do you know who to ask about these bugs? <wendar> generally achuni (Anthony Lenton), but John Pugh can be quite helpful too <wendar> looks like achuni is hanging out on ubuntu-app-devel <wendar> though, he's probably away for the day now <ajmitch> yeah, I live in the wrong timezone :) <wendar> me too :) <wendar> I got into the habit of running through my "who do I need to talk to in Europe" list early in the morning each day <ajmitch> jono connected me with david pitkin by email, I might talk to him <ajmitch> are there any other important bugs that come to mind? <highvoltage> wendar: ok <wendar> ajmitch: yes, david pitkin is good, he's the manager of the whole team and will be able to make sure the work needed gets scheduled and completed <wendar> ajmitch: also, he's US-based, so on a good timezone #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-23 <dpm> good morning all <ajmitch> hi dpm #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-24 <dpm> morning all <ajmitch> hi dpm <dpm> hey :) <highvoltage> hey everyone <highvoltage> I have another meeting that popped up this afternoon that I can't avoid <highvoltage> is anyone else available to chair? <coolbhavi> hi <ajmitch> hello <coolbhavi> isnt arb meeting there today <coolbhavi> fridge says so <ajmitch> yes, it should be now <ajmitch> stgraber, wendar, lfaraone: ping <wendar> ajmitch: meeting time * ajmitch saw highvoltage needs someone else to chair <highvoltage> hello <highvoltage> ajmitch, stgraber, wendar, ajmitch: I had a quick glance over the meeting logs and saw some discussion on the scopes/lenses <highvoltage> (and got distracted shortly afterwards ;p) <wendar> highvoltage: What do you think of the result (summarized to the TB)? #ubuntu-arb 2012-02-27 <dpm> good morning <ajmitch> hi dpm <dpm> hey ajmitch :) <mhall119> stgraber: wendar: I'm going to have davidcalle submit his graphic design lens and scopes separately to MyApps for you to use in setting up your source packaging process <stgraber> mhall119: ok <stgraber> mhall119: I won't have much time (or any really) to deal with this this week as I'm responsible for the installer components and we're releasing beta1 but
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