#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-02
<hobgoblin> hi JoseeAntonioR
<hobgoblin> JoseeAntonioR: what's you forum ID?
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-03
<cortman> hi hobgoblin
<hobgoblin> hi cortman
<cortman> In the words of Zaphod Beeblebrox, to business!
<hobgoblin> :)
<cortman> You mentioned creating a discussion thread for the CLI thread?
<hobgoblin> oh yea - the plan is to have discussion threads for wiki's as you know - you have a  reason why we can't do one for your thread/wiki ?
<hobgoblin> run your thinking by me :)
<cortman> Well, I was thinking since the thread was already there, and had more or less a structure and a way people have contributed to it
<cortman> maybe just put a note at the top, and leave it open?
<cortman> But hey- whatever is forum policy, I'll go with.
<cortman> The master index on the thread could be removed
<hobgoblin> policy is to close and let people talk in discussion and edit wiki
<cortman> And a link put to the wiki page.
<hobgoblin> have you seen what we have been doing in tute?
<cortman> I haven't dropped by in a bit
<hobgoblin> I'll get you a link
<cortman> OK I'm seeing some there
<hobgoblin> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1460472 and it's partner in crime http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12062098#post12062098
<cortman> Sure- but since mine isn't a support thread, do you think that's still the best way to do it?
<hobgoblin> nothingspecial: what did we end up doing with the lost thing?
<hobgoblin> cortman: I understand
<hobgoblin> might be that the way to do it would be stick the discussion and links in ABT in place of the original and move that to tutes'n'tips
<nothingspecial> I think I wikied and closed it with the stuff you wanted
<hobgoblin> was it left where it was ?
<hobgoblin> or was that the jailed one?
<nothingspecial> I was going to anyway, not sure if I did now, hang on
<hobgoblin> I guess the best thing would be to have cortman's discussion thread stuck in ABT
<cortman> OK, that sounds reasonable
<hobgoblin> in this case we want it visible to people tunring up
<cortman> That was kind of what I was thinking- if I may I'd still like to suggest keeping the old posts and simply renaming/ deleting some thread info.
<cortman> Otherwise it'll be pretty empty for a while, likely
<cortman> But I'll go with whatever y'all decide.
<nothingspecial> yea, it is in general help hobgoblin
<hobgoblin> nothingspecial: closed? if so I would just leave it there
<nothingspecial> yeah closed, with the op edited and the closing post
<hobgoblin> cortman: but then how many posts - and do you have any idea how much of a pain it is to remove some posts ... ;p;
<hobgoblin> nothingspecial: k - cheers :)
<nothingspecial> amjjawad has even posted in the discussion thread
<nothingspecial> :)
<hobgoblin> yea I saw - when I see him editing the wiki ... ;)
<cortman> nope no idea hobgoblin - so I guess do whatever y'all think would be best/easiest.
<hobgoblin> easiest is to do what we have been doing :)
<cortman> a wiki is a terrific place for the lost
<hobgoblin> yep
<cortman> that thread was mind boggling, but the wiki page is really nicely done
<hobgoblin> cortman - is the first post in your thread up to date ?
<cortman> yes hobgoblin
<hobgoblin> ok
<hobgoblin> how about this then - copy first post to new thread - call that the discussion of the wiki and stick it, close the old one and link to new thread and wiki
<cortman> copy my first master index post to a new thread?
<hobgoblin> yep - and make that the discussion and stick it
<cortman> I thought we wouldn't want the master index there
<cortman> Because that index is what the wiki page is replacing
<hobgoblin> I'm just trying to help you as you've been helping us lol
<cortman> lol
<cortman> Ok
<hobgoblin> I know that - but no-one can edit the master anymore :)
<hobgoblin> other than staff
<cortman> My thought was to move people's posts with suggestions- since often they give a comment or two on the resource they suggest- and make a new first post
<cortman> Kind of the opposite
<cortman> But if we can't do that, I'd just as soon just make a brand new thread and close the old one.
<hobgoblin> yea  - I'd not be wanting to do that really
<cortman> OK
<cortman> it'll be easy then. :)
<cortman> You can just close it and start a new sticky, linking to the closed thread.
<hobgoblin> ok
<cortman> But here I am telling you how to do your job. lol
<hobgoblin> LOL
<hobgoblin> shouldn't worry nothingspecial does it all the time :p
<cortman> hahaha :)
<nothingspecial> only coz he needs telling
<nothingspecial> you keep it up cortman
<cortman> haha. This is true nothingspecial
<hobgoblin> cortman: k - see new sticky
<cortman> Looks good hobgoblin
<cortman> Can I say something about still contributing to that thread if people are unable/unwilling to edit wiki pages?
<hobgoblin> in the discussion one ?
<cortman> Yessir
<hobgoblin> yea - that is what it's for :)
<cortman> I'll make the first post on the discussion thread, then
<cortman> thanks for all the help hobgoblin :)
<hobgoblin> thanks for all the work cortman :)
<cortman> lol
<hobgoblin> I'm serious :)
<hobgoblin> all of you that have been working away are doing great work
<cortman> So am I. :) Now I know how all the poor thread authors feel about their threads being brutally moved, wikified, and closed. :P
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> blame joeb
<cortman> The page turned out much nicer than I expected. Very pleased.
<cortman> lol
<hobgoblin> it does look good :)
<hobgoblin> IAmNotThatGuy: so are you going to be joining with this :)
<hobgoblin> if you see threads that would make good wikis add them to the list https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pages%20For%20Import
<IAmNotThatGuy> well, my machine's lifetime is over hobgoblin
 * cortman sobs
<IAmNotThatGuy> RAM, motherboard and processor dead
<hobgoblin> that's no excuse :)
<IAmNotThatGuy> and I am not having enough money to buy new one. So, no way to get internet often :[
<cortman> try an old machine IAmNotThatGuy
<IAmNotThatGuy> hence no contribution these days :"[
<IAmNotThatGuy> cortman, I have to spend money for my family (Mom and dad)
<IAmNotThatGuy> Do, can't do any savings "|
<cortman> Right IAmNotThatGuy ; good for you in that case
<cortman> But you can pick up a great machine for about $80 USD on ebay or thereabouts.
<hobgoblin> cortman: that depends on where you live and how much people generally earn :)
<cortman> granted hobgoblin - typical self centered american :)
<hobgoblin> lol
<IAmNotThatGuy> hobgoblin  +100000000000
<IAmNotThatGuy> cortman, :P
<cortman> :P at both of you guys. lol
<IAmNotThatGuy> xD
<cortman> where are you from IAmNotThatGuy ?
<IAmNotThatGuy> India
<cortman> ah
<IAmNotThatGuy> aye
<hobgoblin> night
<IAmNotThatGuy> night for piskie.
<IAmNotThatGuy> Oh wait. It's 1:10 AM here. I also should go and sleep :|
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-04
<hobgoblin> hi hannie
<hobgoblin> how's things
<hannie> hey hobgoblin everything fine here
<hannie> and you?
<hobgoblin> nice
<hobgoblin> yep - all good here thanks
<hobgoblin> have a look at the beginning of this - bodhi added some stuff :p
<hobgoblin> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11802464&postcount=1
<hannie> I will
 * hobgoblin is going to be dragging a lot of the new staff and members kicking and screaming into the party of the next month or so
<hannie> oops, didn't quite get that
<hobgoblin> the post or what I just said ?
<hannie> what you said
<hobgoblin> I shall be getting some new blood in to the wiki/thread project
<hannie> ah, good. I am not very productive because the manual costs me a lot of time.
<hannie> I am currently preparing the translations on LP.
<hobgoblin> lol - you do your bit and what you have done has been great :)
<hobgoblin> helped me enormously
<hobgoblin> I know - I am still on the manual m/list - and still intend to help where I can
<hannie> I started translating the manual and then got involved in all kinds of jobs :)
<hannie> You do a lot for forums, I do a lot for the manual
<hobgoblin> yep
<hobgoblin> been doing a lot of testing for xubuntu as well
<hannie> Have you seen the link to the
<hannie> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Official-Ubuntu-12-04-LTS-getting-started-guide-published-1631226.html
<hobgoblin> read that :)
<hannie> I am glad the manual gets more attention now in the media
<hobgoblin> yea I'm sure
<hannie> Just read the post
<hannie> So, from now on tutorials should start on the wiki, not on the forums
<hobgoblin> we will be starting to force it more now
<hannie> good, I hope people will understand the advantages of the wiki
<hobgoblin> most will I think - you always get some who don't like new
<hannie> right
<hannie> Well, back to translations then. See you
<hobgoblin> nice to see you :)
<hobgoblin> saw you pop in yesterday but I missed you
<hannie> np
<hobgoblin> have fun :)
<hannie> ty, you too with xubuntu and forums
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> wb
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-05
 * hobgoblin waits
<john_barleycorn> lol me too
<john_barleycorn> :)
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-06
<hannie> hey hobgoblin Are you watching Murray vs Tjonga at the moment? I am
<hobgoblin> enjoy :)
<hobgoblin> it's only golf I dislike more than tennis :)
<hannie> the beginning is not so exciting, but later on it is
<hobgoblin> lol
<hobgoblin> I really like the very very end :D
<hannie> ah, you are not a sports lover
<hannie> I am a sports freak
<hobgoblin> I'll watch thing slike football/rugby
<hannie> The Eur championship final was a disaster, especially for the neutral viewer
<hobgoblin> it was a bit - but I have half spanish kids and lots of spanish friends - I did feel for the Italians when they only had 10 left though
<hannie> yeah, but the Spanish were much better. Hablas Espanol?
<hobgoblin> not much - I'm rubbish at languages
<hannie> ok, I am going to watch the match now. cya
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-10
<nothingspecial> elfy, are you supposed to credit the OP, if they have a launchpad account when wikifying
<elfy> did the wiki come from a thread on forum?
<nothingspecial> I'm thinking of DTs firewall one
<elfy> if so - the credit to the thread is at the bottom
<elfy> ok - the credit it at the bottom - link to forum thread
<nothingspecial> oic, never clicked that link
<elfy> :)
<nothingspecial> :)
<elfy> hover and you'll see it
<nothingspecial> ms-daisy has changed the link in her sig to point to the wiki rather than forum thread :)
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-15
<hannie> hobgoblin, are you in?
<hobgoblin> hi hannie
<hannie> hey hobgoblin
<hannie> I wanted to ask you something
<hannie> Do we have a list for links to outdated tutorials?
<hobgoblin> threads we decided not to do?
<hannie> I already asked on the m/list, but this is faster
<hobgoblin> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ForumWikiTeam/RejectedTutorial
<hobgoblin> that one?
<hannie> ah, yes, that was the one I was looking for
<hannie> could'nt find the link in my favourites :)
<hobgoblin> glad to be of service :)
<hobgoblin> just got the m/list too lol
<hobgoblin> and you're one about drs305's stuff
<hannie> ok, you may put the link on the m/list (rejected tuts)
<hobgoblin> the grub stuff?
<hannie> no, the rejected list
<hobgoblin> aah ok :)
<hannie> about grub 2:
<hannie> I guess you will close the thread
<hannie> I am going to read a few tutorials now to see if they can be put on the import list
<hobgoblin> ok
<hannie> have a nice Sunday
<hobgoblin> yea - we have been closing things now
<hobgoblin> I will - you too :)
<hannie> right
<hobgoblin> I hope to be more active soon as well
<hannie> ok, but don't overdo it. Just relax
<hobgoblin> :)
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-16
<elfy> hello s-fox
<s-fox> if favux turns up while am i am not here, please let him / her know i will not be long...
<john_barleycorn> can do s-fox
<s-fox> back but thanks john_barleycorn  :)
<s-fox> hello Favux :)
<Favux> Hi
<s-fox> how are you Favux ?
<Favux> I'm good, how are you?  Is there any sentiment for rescinding the 1 week post limit?
<elfy> o/ Favux
<Favux> hi elfy
<s-fox> tired, very long day.
<Favux> Sure, I bet.
<s-fox> thank you for agreeing to talk on IRC.
<s-fox> do you know why the limit was set on posts?
<Favux> No problem.  Glad you gave me the opportunity.
<Favux> Not sure although I think I've now read a fair amount.
<s-fox> okay, i will give you a quick version :)
<Favux> Fire away.
<s-fox> we are a very large forums and are a prime target for spam.  we have had numerous situations where a bot will register and post seemingly innocent posts and then edit later with spam content.   it sly and is generally unnoticed.  the limit doesn't eradicate the problem, but it does cut down a lot on the clean up work afterwards
<Favux> I thought I read a new version of vbulletin should handle that problem.  Once the unified sign up issue was taken care of.
<s-fox> therein is the second problem
<Favux> How so?
<s-fox> Canonical have had numerous problems with the SSO.  The ticket is over 3 years old now for the update
<Favux> Ouch, that's not good.
<s-fox> To say it is overdue would be an understatement
<elfy> :)
<s-fox> We've been back and forth with Canonical over the issue numerous times
<Favux> For sure.  To be honest I hadn't noticed any of this trojan spam.  The other kind I report routinely.
<s-fox> Your reports are welcome, as are all reports
<Favux> Well if that's the issue and it is a technical one like that, I'm not sure what else there is to say.
<s-fox> The forum facelift you may have noticed was not done by canonical, they wanted us to wait for the update before style update
<s-fox> we did the facelift ourselves
<Favux> Nice job.  The wiki infrastructure seems much improved also.
<s-fox> i seem to recall mark was rather insistent that update take place before the facelift. we got tired and to be honest felt neglected so ploughed ahead
<Favux> There was one objector on one of the threads that offered to help you to write log scripts to handle the trojan spam.  Was there any interest in the offer?
<Favux> Well you can only wait so long I suppose.
<s-fox> we didn't need canonical for that.  i wrote an open letter expressing the forums stance on the level of support we received. i don't know if you saw it? i can link it to you for to read
<Favux> I'd appreciate that.
<s-fox> Favux,  http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2012/03/an-open-letter-to-the-ubuntu-community/
<Favux> I do wish this had been announced via a banner announcement on the main page. A change that important deserved that.
<s-fox> The forums -> Wiki for tutorials ?
<Favux> A general broadcast PM to members would be a nice feature for important announcements also.
<s-fox> Are we still discussing forums tutorials -> wiki  ?
<bodhi_zazen> Favux: we try to communicate with the community, but that suggestion is not practical
<Favux> No the main page.  That I would have seen.  You've done it before.  With the style change for example I think.
<bodhi_zazen> And no-one reads the stickies
<Favux> Yes, still forums to wiki.  Yep, I sure didn't see the sticky in Tutorials and Tips.  I wish it was practical bodhi.zazen.
<bodhi_zazen> The changes to Tips and Tutorials was posted as a sticky in the T&T section 3 months ago
<s-fox> It was also a global notice
<Favux> Sure, but I access tutorials by keyword not through the subforum.
<bodhi_zazen> It was also discussed on the FC
<Favux> Or bookmarks.
<s-fox> It was also being banded about on the ubuntu reports produced monthly
<bodhi_zazen> It was also noted in the Refrigerator
<s-fox> the reports are distributed across many platforms, including planet.ubuntu.com
<bodhi_zazen> Sounds like you need to reconsider how you obtain information from the community Favux
<Favux> I've said before I realize you felt you gave adequate notice.  But there seemed a fair number of us caught by surprise anyway.
<s-fox> Discussions also took place on IRC in open
<s-fox> place
<Favux> Sure, I need to find out where the meeting minutes are posted.
<bodhi_zazen> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
<Favux> Thanks.
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda/
<Favux> That one I know now.
<s-fox> we have noticed that "forums people" are perhaps not always "in touch" with the wider community and things outside of the forums. that is a generalisation but it is an observation
<bodhi_zazen> minutes posted there
<bodhi_zazen> there is also #ubuntuforums
<Favux> Well I don't use IRC>
<bodhi_zazen> and this conversation should, IMO, be moved to #ubuntuforums
<s-fox> and #ubuntu-community-team
<bodhi_zazen> Well Favux you need to learn how to keep up to date with community changes then
<bodhi_zazen> expecting community to PM you on the forums is unreasonable
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen,  when i arranged this meeting i was not entirely sure where the problem was. forums-> wiki or something else
<Favux> But back to the spam issue then.  The trojans aren't rewriting user's posts are they?
<s-fox> Oh no, just their own
<Favux> OK, then.  Why lock us out of our posts?
<Favux> If you are allowing a week anyway.
<s-fox> normally the time difference between "sleeper posts" and getting edited is greater than a week
<Favux> I see.
<s-fox> i have a compromise that i have not aired to the forum council that i would perhaps like to suggest
<Favux> Please.
<bodhi_zazen> There are sort of two broad topics here
<bodhi_zazen> 1. Editing posts
<bodhi_zazen> 2. migrating to wiki
<bodhi_zazen> you are sort of clouding the issues
<bodhi_zazen> by mixing the two
<s-fox> As you know members cannot set avatars, signatures and personal details until they hit 50 post. it might be possible to make it so they can edit once hit 50.  i need to discuss this with the fc and then of course look at technical side
<Favux> Ah, but from my perspective they are the same thing.
<bodhi_zazen> Outside of tutorials, there has been no need to edit posts beyond a week
<s-fox> +1 bodhi_zazen
<nothingspecial> I like that s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> and Favux you need to get  a grip on migrating tutorials to wiki
<Favux> Good idea s-fox, that would work.
<bodhi_zazen> we are not having this conversation so that you can maintain tutorials on the fourms
<s-fox> but the tutorials are going to the wiki
<Favux> That's my basic question.  Why?
<bodhi_zazen> Why what ?
<Favux> The old model is part of what made this the most popular forum.
<bodhi_zazen> The reasons have been outlined here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1949027
<Favux> Don't you have a bit of trepidation making a fundamental change of this kind?
<s-fox> Advantage Wiki: Community maintained, peer reviewed, and easier to maintain.
<s-fox> Disadvantage Forums: Limited peer review and maintenance (only forums staff and the Original Poster).
<Favux> I get peered reviewed on my HOW TOs.  I constantly change them from user feedback and credit them.
<bodhi_zazen> Favux: this issue is a dead horse
<Favux> That message I'm getting.  If this is due to orders from above fine.  Just say so.
<s-fox> the forums does have a roll in this new setupo though Favux
<bodhi_zazen> Favux: let me re-phrase the question
<Favux> If someone had asked me to go to the wiki I probably would have.  Joined the wiki team and everything.
<bodhi_zazen> why do you have such a hang up on the wiki ?
<Favux> But not being "forced" to.
<bodhi_zazen> yes, that is what you should do
<bodhi_zazen> join the wiki team
<bodhi_zazen> No one is forcing you to do anything
<Favux> Part of it is that I use attachments.  This setup essentially prevents that.
<bodhi_zazen> you can use attachments on wiki
<bodhi_zazen> in several ways
<Favux> Another is the wiki was bad before.  Another was that Loic2 and mesiliac were in charge of the wacom wiki stuff.
<bodhi_zazen> "the wiki is bad" carries as much weight as "the forums are bad"
<bodhi_zazen> which is what they say on askubuntu or #ubuntu
<Favux> You can use attachments?  It looked like in was just for in wiki stuff and not downloads.
<bodhi_zazen> if you do not like the wiki,fix it
<nothingspecial> It's about joining the forums with everything else
<Favux> Heck.  Here I though I was part of the community.
<s-fox> are you worried that the forum has no role now Favux ?
<bodhi_zazen> The advantages of the wiki far outweigh the advantages of continuing to use the forums and no on on the FC is ever considering re-opening the tutorials section Favux
<Favux> Yes, that's part of it.  I've been concerned about the decline in active users I've been seeing.
<bodhi_zazen> so we can discuss helping you migrate to wiki
<bodhi_zazen> forums has more active users and more support then askubuntu or LP or irc combined
<Favux> Again.  I at one point had written half the content of the Linux Wacom Project's wiki.  I contribute wiki pages to the DIGImend project.  Writing wiki pages is not my problem.
<bodhi_zazen> great, sounds like you will fit in well with Ubuntu wiki then
<bodhi_zazen> problem solved
<Favux> It would be a lot of work and I would have to rewrite and reorganize a bunch of stuff.
<nothingspecial> that's the ideaThe forum isn't it's own thing anymore
<s-fox> Favux,   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2023420
<s-fox> that thread is for the discussion on a howto
<bodhi_zazen> we have a whole wiki team to help and I wrote a script that has been working for some time now
<s-fox> it is just the tutorial itself that has been moved
<bodhi_zazen> you do not need to personally do all the work
<bodhi_zazen> some people are good at technical details
<Favux> But don't you see in this situation I can't do that.  I would be conceding to being coerced.  I know you think that is ridiculous but that is how it appears to me.
<bodhi_zazen> others can wiki format
<bodhi_zazen> work with at team
<Favux> Again I could have been talked into this before I was locked out.  Most likely.
<bodhi_zazen> I think you are stubborn
<Favux> I hope that isn't it.
<bodhi_zazen> and stubbornly holding onto something you should not
<Favux> I think my concern is offering forum users the best help.
<bodhi_zazen> you clearly have not read http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1949027
<bodhi_zazen> and other then stating you don't like it, you have not given one disadvantage of moving to wiki
<Favux> And giving the helpers/authors freedom to do it the way they find best.
<bodhi_zazen> you are blind to the advantages of moving and working with a team
<s-fox> Favux,  a better example then with active discussion: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2012415
<s-fox> read post #2
<Favux> The disadvantages were covered by all the objectors.  I don't need to repeat them.
<bodhi_zazen> If you want personal control of content -> you need a personal blog or web site
<elfy> I have to go - will read logs in the morning
<bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu (forms or otherwise) are not your personal space
<Favux> No I'm not blind to advantages.  I think your ignoring the advantages of choice.
<bodhi_zazen> Ok, so you will have to grow up and deal with it then
<bodhi_zazen> a decision has been made
<Favux> Control of content is not the issue.  I doubt there would be edit wars on the wiki.  Unless you get more editors.
<bodhi_zazen> and we are not goin gback
<bodhi_zazen> so we can help you move forward
<bodhi_zazen> Or you can pick up your toys and go home
<Favux> OK, bodi.zazzen.  I really don't appreciate you telling me this is my problem.  That has gotten old.  You feel you've explained the reason and said the decision won't change multiple times.
<bodhi_zazen> so do you want help ?
<Favux> I really feel that is a shabbly way to talk to someone who has only tried to be helpful and a member of the community.
<bodhi_zazen> Do you wish to participate in the community ?
<nothingspecial> I'll help :)
<Favux> I don't know.  I'll have to mull this conversation over.
<bodhi_zazen> Favux: actually you are in the wrong
<bodhi_zazen> Part of the "problem" here is
<bodhi_zazen> 1. You were not paying attention
<bodhi_zazen> 2. A decision has been made
<bodhi_zazen> 3. How long are we going to be paralyzed to consider the decision ?
<bodhi_zazen> None of what you say is new
<Favux> Well I felt I owed it to the community to give it a try.
<bodhi_zazen> we have heard all the arguemetns
<Favux> Yes I know, other than the attachment issue.
<bodhi_zazen> No decision will make 100 % of the community happy 100 % of the time
<bodhi_zazen> yet, a decision needs to be made
<Favux> That's cerainly true. Thank you all for your time.
<bodhi_zazen> we made a decision that makes as many people happy as possible
<bodhi_zazen> and we offered you help
<bodhi_zazen> not much more we can do really
<bodhi_zazen> you need to grow up a little
<bodhi_zazen> you are not always going to get your way in this world
 * nothingspecial will still help, pm me
<bodhi_zazen> and you are not always going to get kind offers for assistance
<bodhi_zazen> Favux: see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt
<bodhi_zazen> Lines 93 -> 102 -> etc
<bodhi_zazen> Now if you wish to bring a new argument to the table, something new to consider, I will listen
<bodhi_zazen> but I need something more then "I don't like it"
<nothingspecial> good night all
<bodhi_zazen> you need to respect the necessity of making a decision
<bodhi_zazen> and learn to move forward when a decision you do not like is made
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen,  are you done with the wall of text?
<Favux> I'll take all of your advice under advisement bohi.zazzen.  Good night all.
<bodhi_zazen> s-fox: =)
<bodhi_zazen> sorry, but I am sort of sick of arguing about this issue
<bodhi_zazen> wiki team is great and gaining momentum almost daily
<s-fox> you could have worded it better. you put him in a corner and then isolated him
<bodhi_zazen> perhaps
<bodhi_zazen> you lead him on
<bodhi_zazen> he came here thinking he could change the decision
<s-fox> no, i invited him to chat to clear up the confusion
<bodhi_zazen> He should have been brought here to discuss how we could help him
<s-fox> he kept posting at cross purposes and intertwining points
<bodhi_zazen> no, he had an agenda
<bodhi_zazen> and an axe to grind
<bodhi_zazen> I think we read his post here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2022762
<bodhi_zazen> very differently
<bodhi_zazen> His bolded words "allow tutorials and HOW TO's to once again be on the forums"
<bodhi_zazen> That is his goal
<s-fox> what has said has been said.
<s-fox> i have nothing positive to say, so instead i will say nothing.
<bodhi_zazen> ok
<bodhi_zazen> still a (mostly) completely separate issue from allowing the community to edit support posts
<bodhi_zazen> On editing posts, outside of tutorials, that I am aware, there has not been a single request and staff is mixed on the idea
<bodhi_zazen> should probably be discussed in SCC / with community
<s-fox> Hello Favux :)
<Favux> Hi s.fox.  Just copying the conversation.  Bye, and good talking to you.
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-17
<nothingspecial> elfy, what's the procedure here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2028061
<nothingspecial> pm, to explain T&T wiki stuff
<nothingspecial> ?
<elfy> nothingspecial: I would
<nothingspecial> link your sticky and ask if they need help ?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> soiunds good to me
<nothingspecial> k I will
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> I'm going to spend a day on it tomorrow - clear a whole bunch of moderated things
<elfy> will PM ops , approve and close them till I get replies
<elfy> busy day ...
<nothingspecial> done that one
<elfy> ok - thanks nothingspecial :)
 * nothingspecial is too nice
<elfy> :)
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-19
<hannie> hey elfy hob has left you?
<elfy> hi hannie :)
<elfy> hob was being bad
<hannie> ah, he has been punished
<elfy> yep
<hannie> elfy, I read quite some tutorials the other day, but
<hannie> most of them are not good enough to wikify
<elfy> there is some movement going on with staff and the tutes forum - when there is something concrete to pass on I will
<hannie> I hesitate to put them on the rejected list, though
<hannie> ok, let me know when it is definite
<elfy> how about putting them on a m/list post and then we can all have a look at them
<elfy> there were a bunch of unapproved things - I PM'd them today
<hannie> ok, perhaps the ones are read are already rejected
<hannie> *are=I
<hannie> I will check the list
<elfy> perhaps so - not sure that anyone other than wildmanne is using that list - I've been out of the loop a bit lately
<hannie> I have not used it either (hesitation as I said before)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> if you are not sure - m/l is best I think
<elfy> at least someone else will have a look then
<hannie> will do that, back to work now ;)
<elfy> ok :)
<elfy> how's the translation going?
<hannie> well, strings are very long in LP, that puts my fellow translators off
<elfy> aah
<hannie> So we are only 3 working on it
<elfy> that's not many
<hannie> the others do not like the length of the strings very much
<elfy> I'm sure you are a good team though :)
<hannie> we are
<hannie> did you see the manual is in the Software Center now
<elfy> yep - been following your m/l for a while - elfy needs to get in gear an say I'll help somewhere :)
<elfy> bit hard for me though as I don't use ubuntu
<hannie> maybe in September we can use more editors/reviewers
<hannie> You can install Ubuntu in Virtual box
<elfy> I know - what I mean more I guess is that anything that is unity specific I'd have no clue :)
<hannie> I am going to install VB in a minute. Paddy gave me some good advice
<elfy> he's a good one is paddy landau
<hannie> I am used to Unity now, and I really like it
<hannie> paddy is worth his weight in gold
<hannie> that is a Dutch saying
<captain-jack> amen on paddy
<elfy> it hurts me funnily enough - I am a mouse not kbd person - 2 monitors and dodgy joints - so it kills my wrist getting all the way over there to the launcher
<elfy> hannie: that's an english saying too
<captain-jack> Did a couple of his tutorials for him- he was really great to work with
<elfy> I bet he was captain-jack
<elfy> hannie: surely a dutch saying would be 'worth his weight in tulips' :)
<hannie> in the middle ages tulips were worth more than gold!
<elfy> yep :)
<hannie> elfy, what os do you use?
<elfy> xubuntu
<elfy> I'm on the dev list to help with xubuntu docs this cycle as well lol
<hannie> in Unity you can use the Super key to get to items on the launcher
<elfy> I have mine set up with a panel at the bottom right of the l/hand monitor - so it is more or less in the middle
<hannie> To prevent RSI it would be advisible to use the mouse as little as possible
<elfy> hannie: that is not the only thing I don't like about unity :)
<captain-jack> Nice elfy
<hannie> I'm sure there are more things in Unity people do not like
<elfy> and I'm too old to learn new tricks ... have enough trouble remembering what the day is without a bunch of new kbd shortcuts
<hannie> elfy, you sound like my husband who sticks to Office97
<elfy> hannie: my biggest issue is I do not like the size of it - when I can have 20px buttons on it I might look again
<elfy> ha ha ha :)
<hannie> 20px buttons? What do you mean?
<hannie> You can chose any resolution
<elfy> smallest for the buttons on the launcher is 32px is it not?
<hannie> Let me have a look
<hannie> biggest = 64, which is huge
<elfy> !!!
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/rAIah.jpg
<hannie> there is a slider with which you can increase the size of the icons on the launcher
<hannie> from 32 to 64
<elfy> see my little panel at the bottom - 20px
<hannie> that doesn't look like Unity, at least not in Ubuntu Precise
<hannie> The launcher is on the left side of the screen
<captain-jack> tiny tiny elfy
<hannie> captain-jack, don't tease elfy ;)
<elfy> that isn't - it's a proper panel in a grown up's flavour of buntu :D
<elfy> shouldn't talk like that in a logged channel - someone might believe me lol
<captain-jack> hannie, :)
<hannie> if you think them too small, change to Ubuntu Precise
 * captain-jack is using the proper grown up's flavor of Linux
<hannie> have you ever tried Virtual Box?
<captain-jack> :P
<hannie> I am going to install it now. I will let you know my findings if you are interested, elfy
<captain-jack> Debian wheezy FTW
<elfy> I use vbox quite a bit hannie
<elfy> but this is my emergency box - I killed the other one :(
<hannie> ok, if I have questions I know where to find you
<elfy> :)
<hannie> since Paddy is never in one of my channels
<elfy> lol
<elfy> gtg for a bit now - bunch of stuff to do - cya soon hannie :)
<hannie> cya
<hannie> captain-jack, wheezy better choice than squeeze or lenny I suppose
<captain-jack> Lenny's oldy moldy hannie
<captain-jack> squeeze is too old for me but stable stable
<hannie> ok, I go to wheezy AMD64
<captain-jack> wheezy is more stable than sid or Ubuntu, plus I can get my gnome-shell et al
<hannie> captain-jack, thanks for the info
<captain-jack> So far I'm quite impressed- enough so to slowly make the move away from Ubuntu and to Debian for my main working OS
<captain-jack> sure hannie
<hannie> captain-jack, so far so good. I have installed VB. Now I will download Quantal (probably alpha)
<captain-jack> yay! :)
<captain-jack> Haven't tried quantal yet.
<hannie> It will be full of bugs, hence in VB
<captain-jack> Right. VB is a handy application
<hannie> I need Quantal because we want to release the Ubuntu manual soon after the release of Quantal
<elfy> back
<captain-jack> Great; wb elfy
<elfy> hannie: get the daily
<hannie> express?
<elfy> lol
<hannie> I just installed VB
<elfy> daily download of quantal - less updates to get afterwards
<hannie> and downloading quantal alpha 2 now
<hannie> I am not sure if it is the daily version.
<elfy> hannie: there will be lots of updates to get
<elfy> I've had probably 200Mb since alpha2 was released
<elfy> and some broke
<hannie> oops! I have the bad habit of just picking one of the sites I get from google search
<elfy> which do you want 32 or 64 ?
<hannie> I might throw tis one away
<hannie> I have 64
<elfy> 2 secs
<hannie> I am on softpedia right now
<elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120719.2/quantal-desktop-amd64.iso
<elfy> checksum is here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120719.2/MD5SUMS
<hannie> righto, thanks. I'll download that one.
<elfy> that'll be the most up to date d/load
<elfy> software sources is broken at the moment
<hannie> I only see a list, no links.
<hannie> forgive me my ignorance
<elfy> that's the md5sum page :)
<elfy> the first link I gave is the iso
<hannie> that is where I am
<elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120719.2/quantal-desktop-amd64.iso
<elfy> is the d/load - should just go straight to save
<hannie> ah, that's better
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I do mine with zsync now that I have it
<hannie> never heard of zsync, but always willing to try new stuff
<elfy> if you have the daily iso and then zsync it the next day - it just gets the new bits
<elfy> basically
<elfy> then checks it
<elfy> hannie: http://pastebin.com/tRrWBnrb  - 2 day old daily iso - it just needed to get 25% of the iso instead of the whole thing
<hannie> back again.
<elfy> :)
<hannie> 2 minutes to go
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I hope I gave you the right link ...
<elfy> :p
<hannie> Paddy added info about guest extensions. I downloaded those too
<elfy> yep
<elfy> the quantal ones?
<hannie> yes
<hannie> well, I hope so
<elfy> hang on what you doing here - running vbox in 12.04 to run quantal
<hannie> right
<elfy> just so I know if you ask me questions :)
<hannie> you're right, they should be the 12.04 extensions. I'll check
<elfy> well if you got them from precise then they will be
<hannie> I keep my finges crossed (going to install quantal in VB now)
<hannie> *fingers
<elfy> :)
<hannie> would base memory 1024 MB be sufficient (I have 6 GB)
<elfy> I usually - but moslty because if I'm using the vm I am using it - give 50% to the vm
<elfy> if I had 6 I'd definitely give it 2
<hannie> ah, thanks, I can still go back and change it
<elfy> yep
<hannie> arghhh! No bootable medium found. I had the iso on a bootable usb stick. Now I have to burn a cd
<hannie> I am not going to bother you with my experiments. I will just play with it a bit
<hannie> Thanks for all your good advice
<elfy> no
<elfy> no need to burn anything
<elfy> you still there hannie
<hannie> yep
<hannie> then where do I say where to find the iso?
<elfy> go into settings
<hannie> ok
<elfy> then storage
<hannie> ok
<elfy> then one will be something like secondary
<hannie> I see SATA controller and IDE controller
<elfy> yep - sata - then there is something looks like a cd - sort of click that
<hannie> and quantal-alfa2.vdi (which I created)
<elfy> wrong one then
<hannie> wait I see icons
<elfy> one of those storage options will let you navigate to where the iso is
 * hannie dig, dig....
<elfy> I have no vbox here or I would say - there there there lol
<hannie> add hard disk probably
<hannie> chose an existing disk or create one
 * elfy is asking someone :)
<hannie> But this adds a virtual hard disk, which is not what I want
<elfy> yea - the right option allows it to boot from the iso
<elfy> which is what you want :)
<hannie> and what is the right option?
<elfy> to boot from the iso so you can install - no need for cd or usb or anything :)
<hannie> I want VB to look on my ubuntu directories where the iso can be found
<elfy> yep
<hannie> got ir, chose an existing disk
<elfy> hopefully :)
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/b06VE.jpg
<hannie> No, this is not right (failed to open quantal-amd64.iso) Don't know why
<elfy> hannie - that ^^ and choose a virtual cd/dvd disk file
<hannie> The medium can't be used as the requested device type
<elfy> from that option?
<hannie> I will do as you suggest
<hannie> yes, to "from that option"
 * elfy installs vbox :)
<hannie> wait, I chose CD/DVD, and now I see the iso
<hannie> which is on the hard disk
<elfy> yep
<CharlesA> 'lo
<elfy> we might be there CharlesA :)
<elfy> hannie: if you get more - ask CharlesA :)
<hannie> ah, CharlesA one minute, just trying
<CharlesA> no prob
<hannie> CharlesA, I used the wizard to prepare a vdi, but when I click the start button I get "No bootable medium found! System halted
<hannie> How can I tell VB it should look for the iso on my hard disk?
<CharlesA> hannie: Did you tell the Vm where the ISO is? Right click VM > settings > storage > select cd drive > click cd icon > select iso
<hannie> will do, just a minute
<hannie> NS_ERROR_FAILURE (0x00004005)
<hannie> I get this error when I click Settings button
<hannie> but that is for access to USB devices.
<CharlesA> Are you using virtualbox from virtualbox.org?
<CharlesA> Install the extension pack if you are
<hannie> yes.
<hannie>  I already installed the extention pack
<CharlesA> Ok.
<CharlesA> Hm
<hannie> I am now looking at Settings>Storage:
<CharlesA> See the cd drive listed?
<hannie> the problem is that I do not get a cd drive, only IDE and SATA controller
<CharlesA> Oh. I've never used the wizard before, so you'd have to add a cd drive manually.
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/2wK2n.png
<elfy> I do it like that manually
<CharlesA> select the IDE controller and click the icon that looks like a cd with a plus sign
<elfy> in the attributes on the right you can choose a file then you get the file manager to navigate to it
<hannie> I choose the add button, then add CD/DVD player. Then:
<CharlesA> choose disk
<CharlesA> browse to the ISO
<hannie> choose disk, yes
<CharlesA> Then you should see the ISO listed there
<hannie> then I see quantal-desktop-amd64.iso, which I select
<CharlesA> Yep
<hannie> Message:
<hannie> SATA controller (SATA port 1) already uses a medium that is already mounted to IDE controller (IDE Primary master)
<hannie> This is a bit vague for me
<CharlesA> Uh
<CharlesA> Screenshot?
<hannie> guys, perhaps I should try to burn a cd first and see if that works. I take too much of your time at the moment
<CharlesA> nah.
<elfy> hannie: I have installed vbox now - so the time is gone :D
<CharlesA> it is fine, hannie
<hannie> aha, I had to remove an earlier "add disk" attempt first.
<hannie> ok, I'll see what happens now
<CharlesA> gl
<hannie> Heyho, I am getting there
<CharlesA> \o/
<elfy> woot
<hannie> It had something to do with IDE and SATA controllers
<hannie> I started with SATA, but it should be IDE controller
<elfy> sorry :(
<hannie> Yes, yes, I see the welcome screen of Ubuntu
<elfy> :)
<CharlesA> yay!
<elfy> hannie: I have installed it now - so I won't need to try and get you help with my memory
<hannie> I just clicked the install button
<hannie> elfy, you are my friend
<hannie> and CharlesA too ;)
<CharlesA> yay!
<elfy> :)
 * elfy is going to write a new vbox wiki 
<CharlesA> \o/
<elfy> hannie can then proof it for me and correct it :)
<hannie> elfy, installation type Erase disk and install Ubuntu. What will it erase? The virtual disk I hope
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I ummed and aahed over that message for an age first time :)
<hannie> I am afraid to continue. Do I get the green light?
<elfy> just check it says whatever size you told vbox to make the virtual drive :)
<hannie> writing a tutorial on this is definitely necessary
<hannie> It doesn't give me any size, but I can choose "Something else"
<elfy> choose whole drive
<hannie> I see: /dev/sda ATA VBOX Harddisk (12.9 GB), so that IS the virtual disk
<elfy> :)
<hannie> For this experiment I gave it just 12 GB
<hannie> on a 1TB hard disk, lol
<elfy> more than enough for a vm
<elfy> if it is for test purposes - mine usually get 5Gb
<hannie> After I had the guts to choose option one I got the information: entire disk will be used: 12 GB
<elfy> :p
<hannie> Now it is safe to continue. elfy we are going to put all this in a tutirial, right?
<CharlesA> wiki ftw
<elfy> looks like it :)
<hannie> yes, a wiki page
<elfy> I will write one
<hannie> The installation is now in progress
<elfy> I will have pwetty piccies too
<hannie> I do not know how to thank you guys
<hannie> ow, I love pwetty piccies
<hannie> I will start by making a copy of this conversation
<elfy> you usually do a good job of thanking people hannie :)
<hannie> and rightly so...
<hannie> I should not take help for granted
<elfy> no-one does - we are all in the ubuntu family :)
<hannie> that is why I am so fond of this community
<hannie> Hurray! Quantal is installed in my VB
<hannie> Who wants a nice virtual glass of good French wine to celebrate?
<elfy> I'll go for one of those :)
<elfy> though generally I think that good French wine is an oxymoron :p
 * elfy is a spanish wine drinker mostly
<hannie> I call it a day. cya all soon
#ubuntu-wiki 2012-07-20
<gpepe> hello?
<elfy> hi
<elfy> how's vbox ...
<elfy> :)
<hannie> hi elfy I am glad I can use Quantal now
 * elfy runs it all the time now :)
<hannie> I used VB a long time ago. I only remember that it was not easy to install
<hannie> It has improved since
<elfy> must have been long time ago :)
<hannie> let me look in my log
<elfy> I remember it being a pain in sort of 2008 ish
<hannie> Got it: 2009!!!
<elfy> yea - come on leaps and bounds since then :)
<elfy> I was just trying to telly ou things from memory yesterday lol
<hannie> When I am troubleshooting I use to write in a log what I have done to resolve the problem
<elfy> I used it today to install a minimal for an AU question
<hannie> what is AU?
<elfy> will do a simple - install, create and use to boot an iso wiki at some point
<elfy> askubuntu
<hannie> Nice and easy!
<hannie> How about the staff changes?
<hannie> I shouldn't ask (naughty), you would let us know if there is news
<elfy> with the wiki?
<hannie> yes
<elfy> it's mostly about what we as staff need to do with threads and wiki once we close stuff
<elfy> it's quite intensive
<elfy> not as bad as doing the wiki though lol
<hannie> a lot of work, I suppose
<hannie> When I used VB earlier, I had Kubuntu 9.10
<elfy> well it's stuff we do for other threads - but we don't normally have to close and post, then create a new thread and then go edit a wiki and then edit another wiki
<hannie> I read one of the closed tuts the other day, the information was clear
<elfy> cool
<hannie> Sometimes I see the discussion can be held on the forums, while the tut is on a wiki page
<elfy> yesterday one of the other staff members mentioned "Do we add the discussion thread url to the wiki?" ...
<elfy> and I thought we should - so I edited all the ones we've done so far and added it
<hannie> In fact, I think one of the disadvantages of the wiki is the lack of discussion possibilities
<elfy> hannie: that is plan - close original - create new one for discussion
<hannie> But then people may make changes on the spot
<elfy> yep - so we now have best of both worlds
<hannie> it works
<elfy> yyep
<hannie> Do you have any feedback on the transition?
<elfy> not much in the middle ground - either a lot of yay or a lot of yah boo
<hannie> are you satisfied with the way things go now, or do you want to hold another meeting?
<elfy> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/16/%23ubuntu-wiki.html
<elfy> for instance
<elfy> I ma happy with the way things are going - still slowly - but it is picking up a bit
<hannie> There was a meeting?
<elfy> no - it was someone from the forum not happy
<elfy> I'd not forget you if we wanted a meeting hannie :)
<hannie> ah, good to hear ;)
<elfy> :)
<hannie> I see, it was an irclog
<elfy> yea
<hannie> let me go through it quickly
<elfy> thought I I showed it you the other day - sorry
<hannie> np
<hannie> what is the SSO?
<elfy> single sign on
<elfy> it is a bone of contention ...
<hannie> I see
<hannie> ok, that was a lot of reading. See you

{'channel': 'ubuntu-wiki', 'month': 7}