#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-01 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Timo Jyrinki: Where computing takes you... <http://losca.blogspot.com/2012/07/where-computing-takes-you.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Riddell: Akademy 2012 in Pictures <http://blogs.kde.org/node/4583> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Cyril Lavier: Debian Wheezy has been frozen <http://www.davromaniak.eu/index.php?post/2012/07/01/Debian-Wheezy-has-been-frozen> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Maia Grotepass: Jo'burg Ubuntu Hour and CDs across the country <http://my-ubuntu-day.blogspot.com/2012/07/joburg-ubuntu-hour-and-cds-across.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Lucas Nussbaum: Introducing the Debian Maintainer Dashboard â help needed! <http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=722> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-02 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Mako Hill: Wiki Conferencing <http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/(864)930-0890> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: Burning Circle Episode 76 <http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/104> <jussi> Morning all <AlanBell> morning jussi <jussi> heya AlanBell. any thoughts on when an ubuntu tablet might hit the market? <AlanBell> well I think not any time soon <AlanBell> they need an OEM that wants to play along and I dunno if they have one yet <jussi> ahh yes <popey> depends how you define "an ubuntu tablet" <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/ubuntu-12-04-firmware-released-for-smartq-t20-tablet <popey> i have one of those on order :) <jussi> nice <jussi> thats actually very interesting <jussi> popey: do you have any sharable information about effort going into making ubuntu more tablet/touch friendly? <popey> i dont think there's anything to share at the moment <jussi> popey: ok, fair enough, thanks anyway. <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Justin Dugger: Open Source Bridge Wrapup <http://pwnguin.net/open-source-bridge-wrapup.html> <AlanBell> interesting, I didn't realise that t20 thing was a manufacturer provided firmware <AlanBell> I guess it is stock ubuntu, not a Canonical tweaked version for tablets <popey> looks that way <popey> but it looks like they use a linaro kernel <popey> which is interesting <popey> "Stockholm utr,Sverige, The item has been dispatched from PostenÂ´s international terminal for onward transport abroad." <popey> mine's on its way <jussi> popey: awesome :D <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Lubuntu Blog: Quantal UI Improvements <http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2012/07/quantal-ui-improvements.html> <bleytrin> hi, i want to backup via dd a few workstations simultaneously. I was thinking dd via ssh. Any other scenarios? <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: RaphaÃ«l Hertzog: My Debian Activities in June 2012 <http://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/07/02/my-debian-activities-in-june-2012/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: [Quantal] linux kernel 3.5.0-3.3 uploaded (ABI Bump) <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/02/quantal-linux-kernel-3-5-0-3-3-uploaded-abi-bump/> || The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 272 <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/07/02/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-272/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-272> <AlanBell> ooh look this channel gets a mention in the Ubuntu Weekly News <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue272 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Michael Rooney: Freelancing: A 6-Month Retrospective <http://mrooney.github.com/blog/2012/07/01/freelancing-a-6-month-retrospective/> <MrChrisDruif> Rightly so AlanBell <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tony Whitmore: But which one is the straight man? <http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/02/but-which-one-is-the-straight-man/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=but-which-one-is-the-straight-man> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-03 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Call for Testing: 12.10 kernel on 12.04 -- Part Deux <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/07/call-for-testing-1210-kernel-on-1204.html> || Nicholas Skaggs: Call for Testing: 12.10 kernel on 12.04 <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/06/call-for-testing-1210-kernel-on-1204.html> <hobgoblin> morning popey <popey> good morning <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Daniel Silverstone: Gitano public hostingâ¦ <http://blog.digital-scurf.org/2012/07/03#gitano-hosting-environment> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Meet Vincent Ladeuil who works in the Blue Squad on Launchpad <http://blog.launchpad.net/meet-the-devs/meet-vincent-ladeuil-who-works-in-the-blue-squad-on-launchpad> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Martin Pitt: PyGObject hackfest at GUADEC <http://www.piware.de/2012/07/pygobject-hackfest-at-guadec/> || Ryan Kavanagh: Fixing mutt header cache <http://ryanak.ca/planet-ubuntu/2012/07/03/Fixing-mutt-header-cache.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: Kernel Team Meeting Minutes â July 03, 2012 <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/03/kernel-team-meeting-minutes-july-03-2012/> || Daniel Holbach: Making better apps possible <http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/07/making-better-apps-possible/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=making-better-apps-possible> <jussi> Did anyone watch the thing with Mark today? How was it ? <IdleOne> what thing with Mark? <IdleOne> I guess me answer is no I didn't <AlanBell> there is a replay of it, I didn't read all of it <jussi> AlanBell: got a link? <AlanBell> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/28/mark_shuttleworth_live_chat/ <IdleOne> Thank you <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Soren Hansen: If youâre trying to do asymmetric routing in Ubuntu 12.04.. <http://blog.linux2go.dk/2012/07/03/if-youre-trying-to-do-asymmetric-routing-in-ubuntu-12-04/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-04 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Carter: Facebook ads for MOTU? <http://jonathancarter.org/2012/07/04/facebook-ads-for-motu/> <bkerensa> hmm <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Didier Roche: Added rhythmbox radio support to unity music lens <http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Added-rhythmbox-radio-support-the-unity-music-lens> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Riddell: Akademy Week Continues <http://blogs.kde.org/node/4585> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ronnie Tucker: Fullcircle Podcast Episode 29 â The Great Train Poddery <http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2012/07/04/fullcircle-podcast-episode-29-the-great-train-poddery/> <harris> does anyone have a tablet with ubuntu on it <ikonia> not a lot of options <ikonia> certainly nothing native <bluegoon> Hello <bluegoon> Which IRC client would be best for ubuntu? <IdleOne> bluegoon: not really the sort of question this channel was meant for, but there are several. <IdleOne> !irc <ubot5> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines <IdleOne> !clients <IdleOne> hmm <IdleOne> Xchat, quassel, are two popular GUI clients <IdleOne> there is also irssi for a CLI client and a few others <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo: S05E10 â The Tale of the Pie and the Patty Pan <http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/07/04/s05e10-the-tale-of-the-pie-and-the-patty-pan/> <rymate1234> hai <IdleOne> hello <IdleOne> I'm sure Galvatron will be along soon <Galvatron> I am <rymate1234> lol <IdleOne> oh, hehe <IdleOne> Didn't see you there hiding in the corner <Galvatron> I wonder why Canonical is trying to stick to GNOME 3 and Compiz at any cost, while the current KDE is very mature, stable and has almost everything to run Unity. <Galvatron> They would just need to make the Dash into a Plasmoid <Galvatron> Andmaybe add a plasmoid for the window buttons on the panel <Galvatron> There's even a plasmoid for the launcher (it might need a little work, though) <ikonia> because they are backing ubuntu as a gnome distro <Galvatron> Kubuntu is now supported by Blue Systems <rymate1234> they could at least recode unity to use mutter <Galvatron> Mutter is an utter mule, compared to Compiz <rymate1234> isn't compis supposed to be dead? <rymate1234> -s +z <Galvatron> Compiz is up and fine, especially the stable 0.8.x branch <Galvatron> It's the development 0.9.x that causes all the trouble <Galvatron> And Canonical pushing it int a "stable" version of a distro <rymate1234> meh <Galvatron> I've had problems with 0.9.x ever since it was introduced, back in 11.04 <Galvatron> Back then I just swutched back to 0.8.6, but now it's not easy <AlanBell> I have heard people saying that compiz 0.8 series is more stable, however I am finding the version in Ubuntu pretty solid now <AlanBell> the unity plugin was pretty buggy and kept bringing down the whole stack a couple of cycles ago but now it reloads perfectly happily <AlanBell> that was the problem with CCSM, any time you turn on or off a plugin they all get reloaded, and it is bad if there is a crashy one, but now it works fine #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-05 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Stuart Langridge: Together in electric fags <http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/07/05/together-in-electric-fags> <jussi> electric fags :D Oh stuart, I love you :P <Tm_T> well that's a subject to discuss here (; <AlanBell> they are USB powered <AlanBell> wonder if they draw 100ma or negotiate for 500ma <AlanBell> dunno if they would need a kernel driver for that <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: James Henstridge: u1ftp: a demonstration of the Ubuntu One API <http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2012/07/05/u1ftp/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Luca Ferretti: GNOME 3.5.3 development release <http://blogs.gnome.org/lferrett/2012/07/05/gnome-3-5-3-development-release/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Meet Martin Packman in the Blue squad <http://blog.launchpad.net/meet-the-devs/meet-martin-packman-in-the-blue-squad> <m4v> AlanBell: The amount of current is determined by the type of load you connect. Lower imperance loads demand higher current. If they demand more than what the usb port can supply, the voltage drops and a short circuit follows if there's no build-in protection . <AlanBell> m4v: there is a negotiation protocol <m4v> there is? sounds silly to negotiate current for a constant voltage supply. <AlanBell> everything is allowed to draw 100ma at first which is one unit of load <AlanBell> they can ask the bus if they can have up to 5 units <AlanBell> this is so the voltage does not drop <AlanBell> it can just take 500ma, but that is outside the spec if it doesn't ask nicely for it <AlanBell> which is why some low quality netbooks crash when you plug in a 3G dongle <m4v> I see, there's a current limiter or protection circuit then. <AlanBell> I don't know how/if it is enforced <AlanBell> but to be within the spec a device has to ask nicely before taking lots of power <AlanBell> this means a completely dumb device can have 100ma and be a compliant USB device, but it has to have a tiny bit of cleverness to have a power negotiation conversation, but I am not sure if that means that aquarius's fags need a kernel driver <AlanBell> I would think that they would at least show up in lsusb if they are doing a power negotiation <m4v> might be at hardware level <m4v> is probably the current protection that is set to kick in at 100ma, and you negotiate for a higher limit. <m4v> but then... it shouldn't crash anything, the device would fail to work. <AlanBell> apparently they don't show up in lsusb <AlanBell> I have a hacked apart USB extension cable and a multimeter for checking current draw of USB devices, used it to prove that the netbook was crap, and the dongles were out of spec <m4v> power negotiation sounds like something that should be done at hardware level, but I'm just guessing. #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-06 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: John Baer: UN5 GTK 3.4 Theme for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Released <http://www.projblog.com/un5-12-04/> || Jono Bacon: Community Leadership Summit 2012: A Week Away! <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/06/community-leadership-summit-2012-a-week-away/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jason Gerard DeRose: PyGI + GStreamer 1.0, BFF <http://jderose.blogspot.com/2012/07/pygi-gstreamer-10-bff.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: Thinkpad t520i Palmrest <http://blog.pault.ag/post/26594154131> <ikonia> Pici: discuss <ikonia> it was a good topic <ikonia> Pici: thoughts, I want to run $GAME - what's your suggestion ? <Pici> ikonia and I were discussing wether WINE was a feasable solution for running windows programs <ikonia> ahh, mine point was "depending on wine as a long term solution" rather than just running <Pici> I personally think that WINE can be stable enough to fit many user's needs. <ikonia> Pici: I think it can too for certain software, <Pici> or rather, the programs running under wine can be stable. <ikonia> I don't see it for things like games which have regular patches and demands on the resources directly <AlanBell> there has been a heap of work on wine for games <ikonia> AlanBell: yes, but in ubuntu world, that doesn't matter as the wine package isn't updated <AlanBell> which is kind of good as games are quite demanding and the upshot is that wine is really good for regular applications now <ikonia> AlanBell: and to be honest, the wine guys wil struggle to keep up with each software package and it's updates <ikonia> AlanBell: define regular applications ?# <AlanBell> windows applications that are just forms and windows <Pici> non-games, basic office apps <ikonia> ok, so say "word" for arguments sake <AlanBell> yeah, stuff like that <ikonia> yes, I can see some value in things like word, or basic form driven software in wine <Pici> I didn't specifically mean MS Office <AlanBell> I was thinking Lotus Notes which I used to run under wine <ikonia> Pici: no, I take the point <Pici> k <ikonia> AlanBell: same sort of example, sure, I'm with you on that <AlanBell> I don't use it any more, but wine development picked up fast when games got viable <ikonia> software with big demands and regular patches that change the core code base, photoshop, games, I don't see it <ikonia> AlanBell: I still don't see it as viable <ikonia> but I suspect that is the definition of viable <Pici> I don't use Wine either. I have a seprate Windows computer for my Windows stuff. <AlanBell> oh sure <AlanBell> wine got more developers when it started to look like it might be plausible that a game might kinda start under wine <ikonia> as joe blogs I want to open up software, and use it %99 as good as if it was native and depend that it will not break randomly tomorrow <ikonia> I don't see wine delivering on that option <ikonia> I see wine on ubuntu as even less due to the version restrictions <AlanBell> I wasn't aware of regressions happening on wine, I thought things tend to move in a forward direction <ikonia> AlanBell: I don't think it's regessions <ikonia> more the software it's running changes and it's broke <AlanBell> ah, I see <ikonia> eg: a patch happens, a version update, and wine just then fails <ikonia> (not all situations of coursE) <Pici> A program patch, not a Wine patch <ikonia> but that's why I was saying something that works today with a smile, may totally fail tomorrow <ikonia> sure, a program patch <ikonia> the more basic the software, the less the patch seems to effect it <ikonia> and that's why I'm saying I don't believe the wine guys could ever keep up <ikonia> so much software, so many updates to that software, wow, it would be mamoth <ikonia> that doesn't mean I think wine is bad though <ikonia> quick fire up to get something, or try something, or convert it, sure <ikonia> but it's the depending on wine bit I have an issue with <Pici> Do they actually put fixes in for speicific programs? <ikonia> Pici: I've seen reference to patches to fix a bug with a specific program <ikonia> I don't know if that's actually that program, or the problem that program creates <Pici> ikonia: I think we agree that if they were putting in that many speicific fixes then their codebase would explode. <ikonia> the work load would be amazing <ikonia> Pici: it would be a 1TB download with mb updates/deltas every day <ikonia> I think people trying to run games makes the issue look worse than it is as they are a hot moving target <Pici> Yeah <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Revell: Technical Writer wanted at Canonical <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MatthewRevell/~3/9Ap2E03_dWY/> || Launchpad News: Are you a technical writer -Want to work with amazing people and great team- Come join us <http://blog.launchpad.net/were-hiring/are-you-a-technical-writer-want-to-work-with-amazing-people-and-great-team-come-join-us> || Launchpad News: Weâre hiring software engineers to work on cloud pro <ikonia> boot the root issues (for me) of being able to depend on it as a solution at a wine level, and then at a wine level that your distro is running/maintaining is just not viable <ikonia> quick tasks, eg: just open up word to save it as a different format, or check your email on lotus notes, sure sure, <ikonia> but running your business, class work, gaming life around it, it's just not going to fly <ikonia> and I don't see how the wine guys can be responsible for that or even have a chance at it <Pici> I agree, running your business through wine is probably not the best solution <ikonia> Pici: I come to you for Pici IT support, I give you your consulting fee, and say "I'm doing music production at college, I need to run Pro-tools, should I use my linux box?" what is your opinion ? <ikonia> (I admit I'm picking a very complex bit of software, but I couldn't think of a non-business bit of software, so call it generic music software) <Pici> ikonia: I wouldn't want to be responsible for trying to get it to work under Linux. <ikonia> Pici: ok, but I'm depending on it for college...... <ikonia> do you recommend wine or a native solution ? <Pici> ikonia: Natiev. <Pici> Native too <ikonia> that's the point I'm going for <ikonia> depending on it for a solution for anything, fun, work, study, is just not viable <Pici> Sometimes I forget that not everyone is willing to fight with their software to get it to work. <ikonia> as a "tool" I think it's great, as a solution, I don't find it acceptable <ikonia> Pici: you're not alone <ikonia> Pici: better idea of where I'm trying to come from ? <Pici> ikonia: much better, thanks :) <ikonia> it's a good discussion, <Pici> aye <ikonia> this is the sort of thing I wish you could discuss in #ubuntu-offtopic <ikonia> (I know you technically can, just wouldn't get input/discussion like this) <ikonia> maybe I'll move -discuss a little lower down my irssi window list <AlanBell> heh <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: Ubuntu app showdown deadline approaching: get your submissions ready! <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/07/ubuntu-app-showdown-deadline-approaching-get-your-submissions-ready/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Cloud Portal: EC2 S3 Mirrors globally available <http://utlemming.azurewebsites.net/?p=451> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: Will Thunderbird Get Forked Proper? <http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/07/06/will-thunderbird-get-forked-proper> || Jorge Castro: I am digging the S3 mirrors... <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/06/i-am-digging-the-s3-mirrors-dot-dot-dot/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-07 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tiago Hillebrandt: Ubuntu-BR-SC LoCo Team Blog Launches New Visual Identity <http://tiagohillebrandt.eti.br/blog/ubuntu-br-sc-loco-team-blog-launches-new-visual-identity.html> || Jorge Castro: There is no need to worry about Thunderbird <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/06/there-is-no-need-to-worry-about-thunderbird/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Robert Collins: Reprap driver pinouts <http://www.advogato.org/person/robertc/diary.html?start=163> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thomas Bechtold: Welcome to planet.ubuntu.com <http://toabctl.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/welcome-to-planet-ubuntu-com/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-08 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thomas Bechtold: pictag released <http://toabctl.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/pictag-released/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Bryan Quigley: 12.04 Music Player Review Init <http://bryanquigley.com/reviews/12-04-music-player-review-init> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Stuart Langridge: Speakers all over the house <http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/07/08/speakers-all-over-the-house> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Scott James Remnant: Revision Control and Unit Tests Considered Harmful <http://netsplit.com/2012/07/08/revision-control-and-unit-tests-considered-harmful/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-09 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Brandon Holtsclaw: Premium Newrelic Accounts for AWS <http://www.brandonholtsclaw.com/blog/2012/free-newrelic-for-aws-and-azure> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Matt Fischer: How Does udev Know Whatâs a Keyboard or Mouse? <http://www.mattfischer.com/blog/?p=182> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: Burning Circle Episode 77 <http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/105> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Aaron Toponce: High Capacity Color Barcode <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/pthree/~3/XkZMOQtANbQ/> <jussi> Anyone care to speculate how the Jolla news affects Ubuntu phone. Do we think Mer apps will run nicely on ubuntu? How much adaption will they need? <AlanBell> jussi: what is the Jolla news, I missed that? <jussi> http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/07/jolla-promises-meego-will-live-on-plans-new-smartphone/ <AlanBell> I am investigating getting boot to gecko running on my phone <jussi> I think we will see several bits and peices coming out of the ruins of Nokia <AlanBell> that looks pretty cool, HTML5 focussed like boot2gecko <AlanBell> it would be nice if that was kind of a third platform for developing stuff <AlanBell> iOS/Android Dalvic/HTML5 <AlanBell> and actually the HTML5 stuff should work across all the phones <AlanBell> or have a decent chance of doing so <jussi> AlanBell: yup <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Lubuntu Blog: PCManFM 1.0 <http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2012/07/pcmanfm-10.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Mako Hill: Wiki Conferencing <http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/(864)930-0890> || Benjamin Mako Hill: The Global Iron Blogger Network <http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/(864)930-0890> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: s.fox: Ubuntu App Showdown â Update <http://serial-coder.co.uk/blog/2012/07/ubuntu-app-showdown-update/> || The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 273 <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/07/09/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-273/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-273> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Charlene Tessier: Make It Yours â A Guide to Lenses and Scopes <http://frenchfortunecookie.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/make-it-yours-a-guide-to-lenses-and-scopes/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tony Whitmore: Kelly and Luke â a sneak preview <http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/09/kelly-and-luke-a-sneak-preview/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=kelly-and-luke-a-sneak-preview> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: [Quantal] linux kernel 3.5.0-4.4 uploaded (ABI Bump) <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/09/quantal-linux-kernel-3-5-0-4-4-uploaded-abi-bump/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-10 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Gerfried Fuchs: Mermaids Reloaded <http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/2012/07/10#mermaids-reloaded> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thomas Mashos: Ubuntu TV Updates! <http://www.mashos.com/2012/07/ubuntu-tv-updates.html> <jussi> Im glad thomas is doing that ^^^ <jussi> its somethign the community has been crying out for for a long time... <AlanBell> indeed <AlanBell> and that is the second update I think, it is good to see something is happening on it <jussi> I think tats a referral to the first, but yeah. I liked the way that they have a nice list of ways the community can get involved <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: David Planella: Heads up to all Ubuntu App Showdown participants <http://davidplanella.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/heads-up-to-all-ubuntu-app-showdown-participants/> <AlanBell> so it is <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jorge Castro: boot-info-script <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/10/boot-info-script/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Vincent Untz: In Geneva for the RMLL <http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2012/07/10/In-Geneva-for-the-RMLL> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Victor Tuson Palau: [Juju adventure] Android <http://victorpalau.net/2012/07/10/juju-adventure-android/> || Marcin Juszkiewicz: OpenEmbedded again <http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/07/10/openembedded-again/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: Kernel Team Meeting Minutes â July 10, 2012 <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/07/10/kernel-team-meeting-minutes-july-10-2012/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu TV: Ubuntu TV Weekly Update <http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/07/09/ubuntu-tv-weekly-update/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jono Bacon: Forthcoming CLS/OSCON Schedule <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/10/forthcoming-clsoscon-schedule/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-11 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: The "hell-server" <http://blog.pault.ag/post/26942959392> || Elizabeth Krumbach: My friends at FOSSCON 2012 <http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=6448> || Brandon Holtsclaw: How Not to Fail at the Cloud <http://www.brandonholtsclaw.com/blog/2012/how-not-to-fail-at-the-cloud> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: How To Setup IPv6 on Ubuntu 12.04 with Tunnelbroker <http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/07/10/how-to-setup-ipv6-on-ubuntu-12-04-with-tunnelbroker> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Vincent Untz: GUADEC 2012 program is published! <http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2012/07/11/GUADEC-2012-program-is-published> <AlanBell> canonical are sponsoring GUADEC <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Webinar on Ubuntu MAAS: Metal as a Service <http://blog.launchpad.net/general/maas-webinar> <jussi> cool <arian__> hello I want to get a distro for the slow internet in iran what distro do you think is better? <AlanBell> hi arian__ <arian__> hello AlanBell <arian__> can you help for choose a distro? <AlanBell> Ubuntu is good, you might find chromium or google chrome are faster browsers than firefox on slow links perhaps <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ir <arian__> I want a distro that is very very stable for python and php programming ..... <AlanBell> might be someone to contact via that link who can maybe send you a CD <arian__> tnx <arian__> :D <arian__> does they have the dvd ? for the softwares on that? <AlanBell> http://forum.ubuntu.ir/ that looks like a good place to find people to contact <arian__> How do you know I am a persian? Are you on #ubuntu ? <arian__> yes yes I remind <arian__> :D <arian__> I remember <arian__> how is cinnamon? <arian__> I listened people say linux mint is with codecs and with apps that people want is this realy? <AlanBell> "15:05 < arian__> hello I want to get a distro for the slow internet in iran" thats how I know :) <AlanBell> I dunno about cinnamon/mint Ubuntu does what I want it to do really <arian__> can i install all paa s on linux mint? <arian__> can i install unity on linux mint <arian__> ? <AlanBell> I have no idea, why not just use Ubuntu? <AlanBell> really never quite understood the point of mint <arian__> is chakra ubuntu based? <AlanBell> looks like it is based on Arch <arian__> can you say 4 best distors ubuntu based? <AlanBell> there are things like xubuntu and lubuntu and kubuntu but personally I just use Ubuntu <AlanBell> those are all based on the same repositories but with different desktop environments <arian__> is there another distro like linuxmint ubuntu based? <AlanBell> probably, but they will be less well supported than Ubuntu itself <AlanBell> people keep making them and abandoning them <AlanBell> it really is a waste of effort 90% of the time <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: FabiÃ¡n RodrÃ­guez: If you still want Thunderbird in Ubuntuâ¦ <http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/2012/07/11/if-you-still-want-thunderbird-in-ubuntu> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: AurÃ©lien GÃ¢teau: Akademy 2012 <http://agateau.com/2012/07/11/akademy-2012/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jono Bacon: Thunderbird and Ubuntu <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/07/11/thunderbird-and-ubuntu/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-12 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Andrew Pollock: [tech] Polar epically anti-developer? A product review of the Polar WearLinkÂ®+ transmitter with BluetoothÂ® <http://blog.andrew.net.au/2012/07/11#polar_bluetooth_hrm> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Barneedhar: Test Quantal kernels on Precise <http://unbrokenspectrum.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/test-quantal-kernels-on-precise/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: FabiÃ¡n RodrÃ­guez: LibreOffice 3.5.5 released â categorized bug fixes <http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/2012/07/12/libreoffice-3-5-5-released-categorized-bug-fixes> <Tm_T> yay for bug fix releases <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Marcin Juszkiewicz: ODROID-X developer board <http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/07/12/odroid-x-developer-board/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: The Ubuntu App Showdown â review is in full swing! <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/07/the-ubuntu-app-showdown-review-is-in-full-swing/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Kubuntu: KDE Telepathy 0.4 - Call for Testing <http://www.kubuntu.org/ktp-0.4> <IdleOne> ^ that PPA is 404 <IdleOne> Would have liked to test. #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-13 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Aaron Toponce: 16:9 Sucks <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/pthree/~3/hKkKKo8VxYo/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Amber Graner: Meaning and Benefits of Community Contribution <http://akgraner.com/?p=1273> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: David Henningsson: Top five wrong ways to fix your audio <http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: Ubuntu App Showdown: let the voting begin! <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/07/ubuntu-app-showdown-let-the-voting-begin/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Launchpad does not have private projectsâ¦yet. <http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-does-not-have-private-projects-yet> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Dustin Kirkland: Let's celebrate the 100th release of eCryptfs utils! <http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2012/07/lets-celebrate-100th-release-of.html> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-14 <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Xubuntu: Thank you Xubuntu social media admins <http://xubuntu.org/news/thank-you-xubuntu-social-media-admins/> <benjamingwynn> oCean, psh <benjamingwynn> brb all <CAZ_au> Ouch, just looked at the nvidia v295.40 Ubuntu Software center page and the ratings were harsh, many problems apparently but im on the same version and have had no problems really. Only thing i can say is the sometimes annoying blank program windows that i have to maximises and restore to see everything again problem but weather thats the g/card who knows. (GTX 560 Ti SOC) <CAZ_au> anyone have problems with the recommended nvidia release version. <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Carter: Debconf 12 â Managua, Nicaragua <http://jonathancarter.org/2012/07/14/debconf-12-managua-nicaragua/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-15 <Jagst3r15> unity runs on top of GNOME correct? <chu> Yep, Unity is a shell on top of GNOME3. In the same way gnome-shell is a shell on top of GNOME3. <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: usage of vcs-git in the Debian archive <http://blog.pault.ag/post/27268910152> || Elizabeth Krumbach: Xubuntu Presentation at FeltonLUG <http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=6458> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-16 <Jagst3r15> anyone participating in dell's project sputnik <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Thomas: Muon Suite 1.4 RC Released <http://jontheechidna.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/muon-suite-1-4-rc-released/> <Jagst3r15> i dont know how i feel about the global menu. I wish there was an option to disable it, but that would be impossible <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: "Not The Program" For July 16, 2012 <http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/106> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Didier Roche: Announcing session-migration now in ubuntu <http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Announcing-session-migration-now-in-ubuntu> <Mkaysi> Hi jussi, what should I see here? <chu> ubot5 sends out rss feeds when a new one comes in. <ubot5> chu: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) <chu> Don't worry ubot5, I don't :) <MrChrisDruif> =) <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu TV: Ubuntu TV Weekly Update <http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/07/16/ubuntu-tv-weekly-update-2/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Martin Pitt: PyGObject 3.3.4 released <http://www.piware.de/2012/07/pygobject-3-3-4-released/> || Amber Graner: Using Color to Improve Your Office Space and Daily Routine <http://akgraner.com/?p=1293> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Bug reporting and search knows about privacy <http://blog.launchpad.net/general/bug-reporting-and-search-knows-about-privacy> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Stuart Langridge: Calibre for e-books <http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/07/16/calibre-for-e-books> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jason Gerard DeRose: Please help test CouchDB 1.2.0 for Quantal <http://jderose.blogspot.com/2012/07/please-help-test-couchdb-120-for.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tony Whitmore: Feel the power <http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/16/feel-the-power/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feel-the-power> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Serge Hallyn: Crypto tutorial <http://s3hh.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/crypto-tutorial/> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-17 <IdleOne> http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/ games! <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Testing in Cadence <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/07/testing-in-cadence.html> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Pablo Rubianes: Python Docs Unity Lens <http://pablorubianes.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/python-docs-unity-lens/> || The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 274 <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/07/17/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-274/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-274> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Aaron Toponce: 128-bit URLs In Python <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/pthree/~3/o5dZ-2A_2LM/> <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Thorsten Wilms: Get on Board the Blues â Guicussion Remix <http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/get-on-board-the-blues-guicussion-remix/> <jussi> IdleOne: games rock - Im pretty happy valve has finally gone that way <DJones> There's only one game playing though...Minecraft :) <DJones> s/game playing/game worth playing/ <jussi> DJones: lol, you have been hanging out with popey too long... <DJones> Heh <popey> :D <DJones> In defence of popey, I've not seen him play Minecraft for weeks <jussi> he plays it vicariously through his kids... <jussi> :D <popey> busy coding <popey> decided I wouldn't play till I had some code finished <jussi> So do we think that steam will actually bring some big names titles to ubuntu? <DJones> Thats definatly not a question for me, I haven't got a clue about games steam have released/distribute, apart from minecraft, I've not bought a game for about 10 years <DJones> :) <popey> jussi, well there's already all the recent humble bundle ones which are mostly on steam <popey> so if you already bought those you can install them easily via steam <jussi> popey: yeah, Im kind of more talking about the super popular mainstream titles <popey> time will tell <jussi> interested to see whether stuff you see out there being advertised will make it to Ubuntu <jussi> popey: this is true :P <popey> i expect so, after a while <DJones> Hmmh, Actually, I've just realised, my game buying days seem to have gone around the same time I started going with my (now) wife.......... <jussi> hahaha <AlanBell> is there some kind of reference specification for running steam games? <jussi> TBH I havent bought a game since I found civ3 at a garage sale a couple of years back <jussi> AlanBell: good question, Im not sure. <AlanBell> with consoles like the PS2 or wii the designers know the spec and frame rate it can do etc because they are all the same <jussi> AlanBell: true, but how do the PC creators do it? <AlanBell> well I know for doom and quake you could turn down the resolution, but I haven't played any PC games since that era realy <jussi> I think they can still do that <AlanBell> I know games can be quite taxing because there are gaming PCs that are high end still <AlanBell> you can set up flight simulators with multiple monitors, probably other games too <jussi> true <jussi> flight sims are not an issue on linux though, as the best one you can buy is native linux <jussi> (and anyone who tries to tell me ms flight is the best shouldreally go try xplane, which equips flight sims that you can actually earn hours on...) <AlanBell> I have only played flightgear <jussi> its ok, ish, but Xplane is the industry leader. * popey notes flight sims don't feature in.. http://digitalbattle.com/2012/02/21/top-10-highest-grossing-video-games-ever/ <popey> nor http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2011/07/26/top-10-steam-games-of-2011-so-far-usa.htm <popey> or http://store.steampowered.com/#topsellers <popey> :) <jussi> popey: however, I would wager a bet that if you took flights sims combined sales over their life, they would be among the top sellers. ie. MS Flight has been around for 20 odd years... <jussi> so flight sims are like a long term investment :) <AlanBell> dunno, I think they probably cater to a fairly specific audience though <AlanBell> more people in total can play angry birds and get something out of it than a flightsim <jussi> true that <jussi> a specific, but loyal and cashed up audience <popey> who buy one expensive app every few years <jussi> popey: no <popey> relative to casual gamers, yes <jussi> popey: there are lot of addons that people buy, new aeroplanes, new terrain, cities etc. <jussi> its not just the game itsself <popey> sure, there's dlc <popey> how does this look? (the bottom one) http://popey.com/~alan/onair.png ? <popey> nice and simple imo <AlanBell> I like it <jussi> popey: yeah, me too, its nice <popey> thanks chaps <popey> (I didnt make it) <Pici> The CoF on the right looks out of place on the bottom one imho. <popey> it does a little.. <MrChrisDruif> popey; I think I prefer the top one <MrChrisDruif> But that is just feeling, I can't describe why I prefer it over the other. Probably less obstrusive <ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jason Gerard DeRose: How Dmedia makes file management go away <http://jderose.blogspot.com/2012/07/how-dmedia-makes-file-management-go.html> #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-18 <IndieMedia> News about Steam and Ubuntu -> http://gamejolt.com/profile/anti-atom/blog/news/linux-the-future/9615/ <popey> something tells me that steam are using ubuntu as a stepping stone to steam on the TV <popey> and getting steam on ubuntu is a way to convince game devs that they should port to linux.. because we have a wide install base <popey> which they can then flip the switch and say "ok, now we're focussed on TV" and use steam on linux on tv <jussi> popey: hrm, and whats your job title again? :D <popey> "that bloke" <jussi> lol <jussi> "that bloke who quit minecraft" <popey> nah, not quit, resting <jussi> I, thankfully, have not been sucked into the silly timewaster :) <Jordan_U> What are the advantages of Ubuntu sticking with Upstart rather than moving to SystemD? <topyli> no idea, but at least it's preventing us from having a GDM later than 3.0 :( <topyli> anyway, we should probably coerce debian to adopt systemd first anyway, and coercing them is not a trivial task <topyli> well, changing init systems is not easy in a project like debian anyway <topyli> i seem to say 'anyway' a lot tonight <Jordan_U> topyli: SystemD is in Testing, though I don't know how well it actually works yet. <topyli> yeah i had sid on my desktop box not long ago, it had systemd packages. didn't have the guts to try it <Jordan_U> I should try it myself one of these days. <topyli> i could put sid on that box again as well <topyli> or testing, it's not as bad as it was 6-7 years ago <topyli> in any case, you're not likely going to get an installation option like "which init system would you like to use?" :) <topyli> and it might not be fun to change after the fact. i don't know though, just scares me somehow #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-19 <somebody> how can i make ubuntu do something stupid? <elfy> ? <somebody> yeah.. something stupid! <somebody> never mind.. i am going to occupy my bed! :) good night <AlanBell> http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/content/video <zykotick9> i think PPA might "really" stand for "Providing Problems Always" ;) default packages ftw #ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-20 <jussi> zykotick9: hehe, guess thats why they all say "unsupported" ;) <Tm_T> hmmm, webapps integration <Tm_T> I kinda like the whole idea of it <AlanBell> yeah, I like that a lot <AlanBell> getting web applications to publish real menus is very cool <Tm_T> AlanBell: one step forward of my crazy idea of "all you need is browser" <Tm_T> not that I prefer it that way, but it's an interesting option to go with <AlanBell> which is the google chrome os principle too <Tm_T> or Firefox OS <Tm_T> AlanBell: that reminds me, I run my ssh client in chrome <AlanBell> I need to find out about ssh in firefox somehow then I will flash my phone to firefox os #ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-11 <Dextrome> So what about that Ubuntu, huh? #ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-15 <Agd_Scorp> I'd like to know, are most of you guys in here atheists? <Jagst3r15> anyone own the ubuntu dell xps #ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-19 <Desync> as far as the future of ubuntu to the consumer/business market, what are they planning to do in regards to integration/support for running certain critical applications (i.e. - Quickbooks with payroll for whatever latest calendar year it may be)? It seems to be the main thing keeping a majority of small business users from making the transition from microsoft. Myself being on of those in that possible customer base for their advan <Desync> ced suppo <Desync> rt they sell. <Frogging|work> I think the future is smartphones and tablets, unfortunately. <Frogging|work> Of Ubuntu, that is <Frogging|work> That seems to be what Shuttleworth wants, anyway. <k1l_> the commercial support didnt change, did it? <k1l_> and to believe only smartphones and tablets would be the only future is a trap. ubuntu will keep the desktop because the whole package (desktop and mobile and tv) does make the difference in the game against the big ones (android, windows, redhat,...) <k1l_> and quickbooks got a macos version. so talk to quickbooks if they offer a linux version <Frogging|work> k1l_: I know, but the thing is that they're developing the mobile version at the expense of the desktop one; instead of taking the desktop version and forking it to make a mobile one, they're trying to make a single unified UI that "works" on both (the result being that the quality of both suffers because of the vastly different controls) <k1l_> Frogging|work: the most work is to do on the mobile one <k1l_> ubuntu got a running desktop. but not a running mobile so far. <Frogging|work> Unity, the desktop UI that most people dislike, was designed for the purpose of being touch-friendly. This is the same mistake that Windows 8 made. <Frogging|work> And it had the same result; nobody likes it because it destroys any possibility of an efficient workflo <Frogging|work> workflow* <k1l_> Frogging|work: dont mix the loud shouting from the "few" nerds who dont even use ubuntu with the opnion from the mainstream user <k1l_> Frogging|work: :/ <k1l_> dont tell me that "nobody can work with unity" <k1l_> that is just stupid <Frogging|work> Well for one thing, I can barely use it on my laptop (Intel graphics) because it has these ridiculous transparency effects and such that add little and slow it down. <k1l_> you dont like unity? ok. you want a gnome2-desktop back? ok. but dont say nobody can work with unity <Frogging|work> And they removed the one-click option to turn desktop effects on and off that they had a couple years ago <Desync> Mainstream user here. I love unity. <Frogging|work> Why? <Frogging|work> Tell me one thing about it that is better than gnome 2 or whatever it was that was there before <k1l_> the problem right now is, that they will not invest alot of work into the old X-server+unity because they are working on the MIR-server with unity8 <Desync> One thing? I would say it has support directly from Canonical as that's what they are pushing. <k1l_> Frogging|work: ever thought about that your learning of where to click in the gnome-menue of the last years, to find a app to start is not really considered intuitive or fast at all? <k1l_> like i give you a mixed startmenue and you need to start a program. <Frogging|work> Desync: That's irrelevant to the user experience. And just because they're pushing it doesn't mean by any stretch that it's good <Desync> good being an opinion of every individual user <Desync> granted I have no problem learning new things and actually enjoy it. Maybe im the minority on this topic <k1l_> Frogging|work: or the space on the screen that is now free for more informations because the global menue saves that space <Frogging|work> And about mir, what about this, huh? http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mir-Developers-Acknowledges-20-Performance-Drop-Over-the-X-Display-Server-369155.shtml <Desync> i do not have much experience working with UX in anything nix. Always been terminal stuff for me <k1l_> Frogging|work: its still in development. did you think of that? <Frogging|work> k1l_: Yes, but then there's this (one sec while I find the link) <Frogging|work> http://www.zdnet.com/mark-shuttleworth-mir-has-delivered-what-we-hoped-7000017897/ <Frogging|work> He said that a little over a week before that other article was posted <Frogging|work> So it's delivered what they hoped, yet it's still 20% slower? What? <k1l_> Frogging|work: they have lots of potential to at least get as fast as X with Xmir. at least! <k1l_> Frogging|work: didnt you read that bit where the mir devs said that? <Frogging|work> Where? <k1l_> i thought you did a well research on that topic? <Frogging|work> Also, that image in the first link is a bit weird... Looks like you have to make 2 clicks instead of 1 to open the terminal. <Frogging|work> Just a sec <Frogging|work> I do remember seeing something like that somewhere, but forget where <Frogging|work> There are a few conflicting reports <Frogging|work> But what's with the contradiction, anyway? Shuttleworth says that it's faster than X on his laptop, yet a week later an actual dev comes out and says that it's 20% slower <Desync> possibly the dev was using a different version? <Frogging|work> Maybe it will end up being faster, maybe not. But the point is, what Shuttleworth is saying is rather suspicious. <k1l_> http://blog.cooperteam.net/ Frogging|work <Frogging|work> Hmm... <Frogging|work> Who are they? Just curious <k1l_> chris h rogers is one of the MIR devs <k1l_> thought you knew something about MIR <Frogging|work> I never said that, I just saw what I saw <k1l_> Frogging|work: ok, then im telling you: you only saw on side of the medal #ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-22 <elvis4526> Why exactly Canonical didn't adopt Wayland ? It seems there is no technical argument besides this decision. <elvis4526> behind this decision. <hrnz> because they want to split the GNU/Linux community <k1l_> elvis4526: there is alot. but everyone is busy shitstorming so no one reads the facts <hrnz> the fact that wayland developement is too slow. sure. <k1l_> http://blog.cooperteam.net/ just scroll down to begin with reading <kline> so, between the "recommended" donation ($16) and canonical's commercial support, why is there an indiegogo campaign for the edge, a product thats not even been prototyped or priced yet? though i realise theres a -phone channel, this does seem to be more about "ubuntu or canonicals direction" <kline> it seems odd that a $600 donation will get you a "special introductory offer", unless the phone were to come in at >$1k. though really asking 600 for an undisclosed saving seems a bit strange <AlanBell> $600 gets you the phone <AlanBell> it isn't phrased very well <kline> no <kline> well <kline> maybe <kline> point still stands why a commercial entity needs an indiegogo when they are known to be making maybe too much money already <AlanBell> lol <k1l_> kline: making too much money? <kline> im under the impression that canonical pushed for adverts to be included in more recent ubuntu releases <elvis4526> k1l_: Thanks, I'll look into that. <kline> in addition to their commercial support, i can only imagine they are doing well. if they are happy to make such a controversial move with ads, i cant help but feel they are feeling secure in their position <k1l_> kline: the adverts only make money if you buy something after you clicked that. its the average amazon referal thing <kline> i know how clickthrough adverts work <kline> so why are canonical asking for money when they are pushing adverts to ubuntu users anyway? <k1l_> ok, than i dont know how you come to your conclusion that canonical makes too much money o_O <k1l_> seems like this is not going to be constructive, so im out of that discussion :/ <AlanBell> you seem to think that search results in the shopping lens are considerably lucrative <kline> if they werent, why would they implement them under such controversy? <kline> unless they really are gluttons for punishment <AlanBell> because they wanted some money from them, plus it fits with the strategy for the unity dash being a search tool for everything <AlanBell> it is somewhat irrelevant in scale and subject to todays stuff <kline> of course its relevant, its part of canonicals income <kline> we already get adverts pushed to us by default, despite huge user backlash, and they are still asking for more and more money <kline> for a device thats not even tech prototypes done <kline> (no screen selected, no processor, etc etc etc) <AlanBell> ad revenue can't be big <AlanBell> the point of the dash is to search for everything <AlanBell> including things you might want to buy <AlanBell> the dash being the omniglobaleverything search tool is way more important a design concept than any money they might get from it <kline> then why are they getting money from it? <kline> if the money doesnt matter, why are they still collecting it despite backlash? <AlanBell> well they could give it to Amazon, or break the dash, or stick it out <AlanBell> most of the backlash was from people who clearly don't use Ubuntu anyway <kline> why not donate to the FSF? <AlanBell> why? <kline> or another foss friendly charity <kline> because canonical is a commercial support entity <Frogging|work> Because greedy corporations? idk <dekan> I did statistical analysis guys, at this time, recorded from 00:00 to 01:00, average mean of $/min based on indiegogo is around 4500-5500 $/min with not much of standard deviation. Can anyone else do statistics tommorrow with me, since two independent measurements and calculations are better, cause I probably have some relative error. THis is only for today, I want to see how rate of $/min will accelerate or deccalerate over time <dekan> , and possibly make a mathematical model to calculate if we will get to 32 000 000 $. <SonikkuAmerica> I apologize for any apparent antagonism right now, but we're actually discussing it in #ubuntu-offtopic right now! <SonikkuAmerica> s/1st right now/up front #ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-24 <jussi> I think its minorly strange that canonical is going after the phone market, when the other big companies in that market are now heading in different directions - google/motorola's glass, LG have just registered a trademark for glass etc etc. Canonical don't seem to be introducing much "new", apart from maybe the convergence "my phone is a laptop" story. Anyone got thoughts? <syn-ack> jussi++ <AlanBell> well I think glass is silly <AlanBell> there is a lack of market focus from Canonical I think <syn-ack> There is a general lack of focus, all around. There has been for years <DJones> Possibly its just trying to have something that differentiates a product from everybody else, I keep reading that traditional desktops are a reducing market, tablets themselves are dominated by Apple & Android, phones are getting bigger bridging the gap between phone and tablet to the point where they seem too big to be comfortable to use as a phone but too small to use as a tablet, the Edge seems a bit different in that with the addition ... <DJones> ... of a bluetooth keyboard/mouse & a cable to connect to a monitor in theory you get the 'best' of both worlds <DJones> I know there are phones that plug into a tablet casing, but even then you don't have a keyboard/mouse with having to get them <jussi> DJones: yeah, true words. I guess this whole HW thing is more about market measurement than anything else <k1l_> i think the dock-mode is some part of the future. motorola tried it before but they didnt have a proper desktop and the ARM wasnt powerfull enough. with a ARM 4core and 4gb ram and 128gb storage that equals most laptops. <DJones> One thing I was wondering about the Edge was what the battery life would be like if you're using it as a desktop machine for a couple of hours, would you need to have it connected to a mains supply and secondly if you have it mains powered how well would the heat disapate, my samsung phone heats up if its on charge <k1l_> i asked if they consider induction for charging (like the nexus4 and nokias and the old hp/palm) but they didnt. <DJones> To me, that would be more of a gimick rather than something particularly useful, its only really useful if you have a fixed workplace, if you're moving round and need to charge its easier to just carry a cable than the induction pads (looking at size anyway), if you're in the car you're more likely to have the phone in a cradle which is simpler to connect to a cable (or have to buy a cradle with built in induction charging), I charge my ... <DJones> ... phone overnight on the bedside cabinet, so having an induction charger there would work, but then if I wanted to use the phone as the desktop without power dropping I'd then need to move the charger or have multiple chargers and I can't see the chargers being as cheap as a Â£1 as the cables are now <k1l_> yes. a cable always works :) since you need to put some cable in for the dockmode it could be charged through this anyway. and since it uses some power that would make sense. <k1l_> but i do like that i dont have to put a cable into it when charging it on the induction pad. i didnt think it would benefit but since i got induction on my hp touchpad tablet and the nexus4 i didnt put a cable into it since ages, and i am glad :) <DJones> I've never looked at induction charging, presumably different manufacturers/devices potentially could have different charging rates or is there an industry standard <DJones> I just have visions of putting a device on one pad & it charging and a 2nd pad and it burning out through charging at too high a rate (or not charging due to too low a rate) <DJones> Just looking at the funding campaign it seems to have stalled after the initial 24 hours <AlanBell> new prices seem to have got it going again a bit <DJones> Sure has, thats gone up about $500K in the last hour <AlanBell> I think there is a chance they will get above the biggest ever crowdfunding total <k1l_> http://korczynskij.pl/shared/ubuntu/ there you see the beginning of the effect <DJones> It wouldn't surprise me if it gets above the $11M level (which I think is just above the previous biggest) but I'm not sure if it'll get to the $32M <DJones> I wonder what will happen if its at $31.5M in the last hour, it might be tempting to somebody (not necessarily Mark) to put the rest of the funding in so that the project could be considered a success <AlanBell> DJones: tempting to indiegogo if it gets to $31M <AlanBell> they have 1.28M commission to protect <jussi> and we are over 4 million... <jussi> I like the idea of putting all those different closely priced perks up. it makes people want to make a decision now to save the little bit extra. <jussi> mind, the people who paid 830 must be feeling a bit pissed off... <k1l_> jussi: i think i t says thex get a refund <jussi> k1l_: ahh, yes, so it does <jussi> but, they dont get a refund untill after the event, so those extra bits still go towards the total <jussi> :P <Daekdroom> Some of the involved people could refuse getting it back. <Daekdroom> So it can, you know, go towards the development <jussi> Daekdroom: yes, that is mentioned there <Daekdroom> It didn't seem to be. <jussi>
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