#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-01 <snap-l> Evening again. <snap-l> http://brainacle.com/how-to-write-vim-plugins-with-python.html <snap-l> http://items.sjbach.com/97/writing-a-vim-plugin <snap-l> Bah, I wish these articles didn't peter out before actually showing something useful <snap-l> Heading to reddit != useful <Blazeix> this one isn't bad: http://orestis.gr/blog/2008/08/10/scripting-vim-with-python/ <Blazeix> though it looks pretty hard to do simple things <rick_h_> there's a book in progress, let me find it <rick_h_> http://learnvimscriptthehardway.stevelosh.com/ <Blazeix> yeah, I was commenting on my dislike of vimscript, when widox and snap-l mentioned pythoning it up. <Blazeix> whenever i modify an existing vim plugin, I can never tell if my lack of vimscript knowledge is holding me back, or if the original author wrote terrible code. <rick_h_> heh, both <rick_h_> ugh, rotten wireless here <rick_h_> how was CHC? <Blazeix> pretty good. just snap-l, widox and me, and I was about an hour late. <Blazeix> got to see snap-l's new tablet <rick_h_> oh yea? shiny? <snap-l> Yeah, it's purdy. <rick_h_> lol <derekv> what is it the happen? <snap-l> derekv: Pardon? <derekv> cute way of asking whats up. <greg-g> quÃ© paso? <rick_h_> morning party people <jjesse> morning rick_h_ <brousch> in the place to be <mydogsnameisrudy> Morning from the U.P. ahe <brousch> how much snow you have? <mydogsnameisrudy> just a trace this morning <mydogsnameisrudy> a bit of ice on the pond tho <brousch> is that what you call lake superior? <mydogsnameisrudy> well its lake huron on my side .. <snap-l> Good morning <snap-l> Sounds like a 1970s folk song: Lake Huron By My Side. <brousch> google reader has a slightly different look. now each post is more seperated <brousch> an improvement! <rick_h_> Blazeix: widox https://github.com/mozilla/doctorjs <rick_h_> kind of cool, works a little better <rick_h_> but still not 100% <Blazeix> cool <snap-l> rick_h_: Do you use CTRL_X CTRL-O? <rick_h_> snap-l: it's just ctags <rick_h_> oh sorry, you mean omni-completion? yea some <snap-l> http://youtu.be/U13xOvDa19U <- provided without comment * rick_h_ is scared <rick_h_> ok, that is scary <snap-l> And it works <brousch> you want crazy? i'm in kde right now <snap-l> brousch: That's not crazy. that's punishment. <snap-l> and waiting to be in KDE is masochistic. <brousch> it's fugly, but its behavior is more gnome2-like than unity or gnome3 <snap-l> More human than human. :) <rick_h_> the quest for gnome2 continues? <brousch> gnome shell quirks have annoyed me the last 2 days <brousch> and unity quirks are still annoying <rick_h_> lol, so much for he great gnome shell <brousch> well, it's still less annoying than unity * snap-l doesn't have as much trouble with Unity. <brousch> i don't like how it dynamically adds desktops <snap-l> eh? <brousch> and the notification thing is buggy * snap-l is still on 11.04 on his desktop, though <snap-l> The laptop is running 11.10 <brousch> gnome shell gives you 1 desktop more than what you're using, so if the only program on desktop 2 crashes, desktop 3 becomes desktop 2 <snap-l> Oh, that's Gnome Shell <snap-l> Well, of course it is, because it's Gnome Shell <snap-l> it knows better than you what you want to do <brousch> since i always have the same thing on desktop 1,2,3 i have to rejigger my programs whenever one closes <brousch> and i can't park banshee on desktop 10 <snap-l> Why the fuck would you have 10 desktops? * snap-l can barely manage two <brousch> i always have 4 <snap-l> Oh, right, because gnome shell did away with Minimize, didn't it? <snap-l> because nobody ever shuffles things off their desk, ever. <brousch> #1 work web browser with email, calendar, etc; #2 personal web browser with email calendar, etc; #3 pidgin; #4-9 actual work; #10 music <snap-l> That's your problem right there <snap-l> expecting to do actual work. <Blazeix> when i was playing with gnome shell i had stationary things like email and music on #1 and #2 <Blazeix> that way I was fine with the dynamic workspaces being appended on the end <brousch> Blazeix: right, but if you close your email program, everything moves up and you have to rejigger your programs to get it right again <Blazeix> close your email program? <brousch> or it crashes <rick_h_> mutt doesn't crash, what's the matter with you :P <Blazeix> ah, yeah, I could see that being annoying if it crashed. I don't think that ever really happened to me though <Blazeix> the dynamic workspace thing was annoying, but I could see getting use to it eventually <brousch> well with firefox on #1 and chrome on #2, i have crashes once a week probably <brousch> the other big annoyance is the notifffication thing in the lower right. it just doesn't work right <Blazeix> yeah, that's why I didn't have temporary things like browsers on #1 and #2, it definitely required me changing my patterns <brousch> i've had trouble with it in dropbox and banshee <snap-l> I want to smack my library sometimes. <Blazeix> the notification thing was glitchy for me to <snap-l> They literally send out an image filled with text in an e-mail <brousch> and it slides up just far enough to be annoying if i have chrome downloads <Blazeix> it like to jump up and down and play tag with my cursor <Blazeix> s/like/likes/ <snap-l> http://library.booksite.com/5460/nl/?list=CNL9&preview=1 <brousch> snap-l: hah, that's how my doctor friend had his web site until i beat him about the head for a month <brousch> anyways, i am disgruntled <brousch> so now my eyes hurt from kde's theme <brousch> but i have 10 desktops and stuff is not moving around, and notification area looks good and works, and my menus are where they're supposed to be <brousch> does http://opendesktop.org work for anyone else? <snap-l> Appears to work over here. <rick_h_> works here on this sucky hotel wifi <brousch> hm <Blazeix> it's detecting you're running KDE, so it knows you don't care about how your desktop looks <brousch> i wonder how irritated i would have to become to want to try one of your goofball tiling window managers <rick_h_> lol, come to the dark side <rick_h_> I wonder if greg-g is still experimenting or gave up <Blazeix> if you're like me, not very irritated. I was in fluxbox land, and a friend said, "switch to Awesome," so I did. <rick_h_> ok, fubar this. mifi time. Now if only I was in a 4g area ugh <snap-l> Blazeix: If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you? <snap-l> because I'm totally there. :) <Blazeix> idk, that same friend has since switched to wmii, and I'm resisting that. <Blazeix> maybe if you told me to jump off a bridge while switching to Awesome. <snap-l> There you go. :) <brousch> ah, found a nice dark theme. apparently kde doesn't have to be painfully ugly, it just is by default <snap-l> brousch: ++ <brousch> whoa: "Warning: Something's Not Right Here! mail.google.comÂ contains content fromÂ www.teefury.com, a site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site." <greg-g> rick_h_: I'm... uh....... using Unity right now.... :( <snap-l> Uh oh, the cult of awesome is shrinking. <greg-g> but, if it makes anyone feel any better: I sure do hate Unity <snap-l> Why? <greg-g> it just handled IM's better (as in, if I'm away from my desk when I get one, I'll know about it via that meMenu or whatever its called) <greg-g> better than gnome-shell <snap-l> Yeah, the me menu is pretty nice <greg-g> why do I hate: alt tab behavior is a major one <snap-l> has saved my bacon <brousch> greg-g: ug, yes, alt-tab <brousch> and middle-click for new window. i don't have middle click! <snap-l> Who's fault is that? :) <greg-g> but seriously, why the fuck did they fuck with alt-tab? I haven't seen ANY reasoning that this is in any way better <brousch> dell's? <rick_h_> yea, get a real machine :P (thinkpad ftw) <brousch> steve jobs the genius says i need 1 button. unity says i need 3 <greg-g> wait, brousch , middle click for new window? where? <rick_h_> middle click on the icon in the sidebar thingy right? <brousch> yeah <brousch> for a new window of a program already running <greg-g> ah <greg-g> gotcha <greg-g> ctrl+n not good enough for ya? <brousch> no <rick_h_> nothing is good enough for brousch, can't you tell? <rick_h_> :P <brousch> then i have to move the window where i want it <rick_h_> but middle click has magical mind reading location properties? <brousch> yes, because i go to the desktop i want it on, then make a new window <greg-g> ah <brousch> otherwise i have to fgo to the desktop where the program is running, make a new window, then move it to the desktop i want it on <rick_h_> if you used awesome you'd just move it to the right desktop with a quick shortcut like win-shift-4 <rick_h_> is there nothing like that in unity? <brousch> any shortcut where i have to click more than <mod>+<key> is very annoying <rick_h_> yea, I've got a couple that use shift I've trained myself for. <rick_h_> rather that than getting arrow keys or fn keys and other out of reach keys <brousch> so in my gnome2 workflow, i switch to desktop 4 with alt+4 then click the icon of firefox/gedit/terminal/whatever and blammo i have a new window where i want it <rick_h_> so for me that's "meta-4" "ctrl-space" "fire<enter>" <brousch> right, i'm not as keyboardy as you <brousch> much of the time i keep my left hand on the keyboard and right on the mouse <brousch> or touchpad or whatever <brousch> nipple <snap-l> You can right-click on the titlebar to move it to a window <snap-l> Works under Gnome 2 or Unity <snap-l> I wish that multi-monitor worke that way. * snap-l did not know about the middle mouse button trick, though <snap-l> Though I just found that by holding shift along with the meta key, it'll open a new window. <snap-l> That's handy. <brousch> ah, got KDE panels set up just like good old gnome2 <snap-l> screenshot, or it didn't happen <brousch> and an inoffensive color scheme <brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/snapshot1.png <snap-l> What's the bottom bar for? <brousch> doh, forgot <jjesse> brousch, nice shiny kde :) <brousch> here we go, fixed the task manager position and added system monitor. oh how i missed system monitor in my panel http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/snapshot3.png <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/12/01/spam-patterns/ <snap-l> I never got into the system monitors on the top bar <brousch> i love them <brousch> now i need to figure out these floating desktop thingies <brousch> and wtf an activity is <jjesse> no one knows what an activity is :) <jjesse> you can multiple desktops and multiple activities <jjesse> from my understanding :) <krondor> jjesse: activity == workspace but with per workspace settings <krondor> you can have multiple desktops with multiple activities per use yes <jjesse> thanks <jjesse> i find them a bit silly? <krondor> I only use like 2 or 3 activities. Dev, Browsing, and Social. <krondor> it's more for people that are hardcore workflow types, they need per desktop tuning for their day or something. <krondor> very power desktop user settings <brousch> interesting <brousch> so instead of crippling virtual desktops kde gives you even more flexible ones? <snap-l> Sounds like something that demos well, and is never used again. <snap-l> like desktop cubes <greg-g> :) <brousch> i hate that cube <jjesse> my son just told me "daddy i want you to stop saying words to me" <jjesse> i laughed <krondor> snap-l: yeah it's nifty, but I'm just not into tuned desktops to that level. <_stink_> jjesse: hah awesome <_stink_> ours tells my wife and i to stop talking sometimes. <krondor> speaking of Compiz, I absolutely love the app switcher in Unity. <brousch> jjesse: that's how you know your lecture has been effective <brousch> i've never gotten to that point <brousch> app switcher? <jjesse> brousch, hopefully it was :) <krondor> alt-tab <brousch> kubuntu has kind of a cool one <brousch> hey, dolphin's not bad <brousch> i don;t think this existed last time i really used kde (2007,2008) <krondor> brousch: yeah dolphin finally feels like it can replace konq as of like 4.6 or 4.7. <brousch> so how many people in here are using kde? * jjesse raises hand <brousch> there may be more using kde than unity <krondor> I alternate between kde and unity now. I need to play with gnome3/shell though. <brousch> what's this window floating on my desktop called? <brousch> desktop folder <krondor> folder view widget <jjesse> that's an applet or widget <jjesse> the desktop folder <jjesse> you can select which folder to display <jjesse> and interact w/ files right there (if you want) <jjesse> i like to change mine to my home directory <brousch> obviously i need to read jjesse's book <jjesse> hahah <jjesse> it actually go too light on KDE/Kubuntu there was so much to cover and i had so little space <krondor> brousch lol you should have made the hike to lugwash I just showed them kde a few weeks back <krondor> I am obviously doing something wrong here.. rsyslog will not send logs to my remote syslogd :| <brousch> only 3 clock widgets? what is kde coming to? <krondor> ah nevermind I'm an idiot, tcpdump port s/524/514/ and I see the traffic lol. <brousch> rick_h_: Are you a manly muppet or a muppet of a man? #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-02 <rick_h_> brousch: hah <greg-g> rick_h_! help! vim! In nano, when deleting a lot of text at the end of an email I held down ctrl+k, thus a line was deleted each time the keypress was repeated. In vim I have to do "dd" which means my delete time is doubled! There must be a faster way! <rick_h_> greg-g: yes, highlight the text you want to delete with line movement <rick_h_> greg-g: so v and then some movements to get the text, like j, or ctrl-f, or ), etc. And then just hit d once <rick_h_> and morning TGIF <Wolfger> greg-g: I might also point out that "dd" is two keystrokes, and so is "ctrl+k" :-p <rick_h_> greg-g: there's also the . command, which repeats the last change you made <Wolfger> also, don't forget you can save time on multiple lines with number prefixes... e.g. 9dd to delete 9 lines <rick_h_> so you can dd and then . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <Wolfger> rick_h_: that is an awesome tip <rick_h_> Wolfger: yea, it's darn handy. It can group together a couple of changes so it's often easier to do a cwNewWord <rick_h_> and then head to the next place and do . <rick_h_> vs cwNewWord again <Wolfger> but will it still work if you move between lines? (i.e. dd, j, . will the dot repeat dd or j?) <rick_h_> the . doesn't really do movement I don't think. It's more of an "Action" thing <rick_h_> try it out some <Wolfger> yessir <rick_h_> :) and with that I've punted it back to you to answer bwuhahaha, *evil friday laugh* <Wolfger> so which of you freetards is using YaCy? <Wolfger> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15935550 <Wolfger> They say it's pronounced "ya see", but I'm leaning towards Yahtzee! <brousch> pythonoids, do you keep your project right in the virtualenv, or do you put virtualenvs somewhere else and symlink the project into it? <rick_h_> brousch: I keep my project in a virtualenv <rick_h_> so ~/src/project_ve/src/project_code_in_git <brousch> me too, but i see some people do a symlink <rick_h_> brousch: sure <brousch> if i did that it would make my dropbox happier <rick_h_> ah, yea I don't dropbox source code <rick_h_> it could change system to system, break the venv, etc <rick_h_> if you symlink the venv, and install a new pip install pcakage <rick_h_> and dropbox sync's it to another machine <rick_h_> it'll break <rick_h_> that's what your source control is for, you have remote repos you're pushing to right? <brousch> right. it is basically useless backups to the cloud <brousch> sometimes <brousch> sometimes it is a crappy little script or something i'm trying out <rick_h_> well /sometimes/yes and take your code out of dropbox all together <rick_h_> brousch: then create a misc repo <brousch> like when i tried snap-l's game. i gave a venv <rick_h_> and I'll bet those aren't in a virtualenv anyway then <rick_h_> right, but why did you need to back up snapl's game? <brousch> i didn't <brousch> i stuck it in with my code projects so i would know where to find it <rick_h_> ok, well anyway, I'd look at more why you're doing vs worrying about symlinks/virtualenv like that, but that's just my opinion <brousch> i think virtualenv wrapper does symlink <brousch> i don't use it though <rick_h_> yea, it keeps all the virtualenvs in .virtualenv so that it can list and complete which ones you have <rick_h_> but I hate that level if indirection and it only solves the issue for python stuff which not all code is <brousch> it should be! <rick_h_> lol <brousch> but you're right i have no excuse for not having a bitbucket repo for all of my code <brousch> free unlimited repos <rick_h_> :) <brousch> more than 0.5GB of mostly virtualenv in my Dropbox/Projects <rick_h_> right, virtualenv is the answer to "give up disk space for more isolated projects <rick_h_> so to be expexted for sure <rick_h_> my answer to that is always, "make your @#$@# rebuildable and don't worry about keeping the virtualenvs, you can recreate those in a heartbeat (or a few at least) <brousch> my method breaks more often than it's helpful <Wolfger> It's sad... whenever somebody types something like "@#$@#" in channel, my mind automatically tries to parse it as Perl... <brousch> if i go to another computer i have to copy out the code, destroy the virtualenv, remake it, put the code back in, then do it all again because the bad one will sync to my main computer <rick_h_> Wolfger: yes...very sad. :P <rick_h_> brousch: exactly <rick_h_> so to summarize, in answer to your question...stop doing it wrong :P <rick_h_> now I feel helpful, yay friday <brousch> i'm glad i could be of service <rick_h_> it's been a rough week, I'll take every bit I can get <brousch> trouble in canonicaland? <rick_h_> let's just say I'm not sure this week of travel has been worth the PITA and $$ <brousch> i assume it's shuttleworth's money <rick_h_> not all of it, it costs me $$ to do things and provide beverages and such all week <rick_h_> and the babysitters, cleaners, etc I setup for the wife while away <brousch> they don't expense caffeine?! i thought that was every 1337 coder's biggest perk <brousch> ooh, home stuff can be bad <rick_h_> yea, dog is in day care all week since I'm not home to let her out, etc <brousch> damn, that is expensive <brousch> like $25/day for us <rick_h_> anyway, I'm getting to the end of the week and cranky <rick_h_> yea, same here, though Tues/Thurs are $20 <brousch> probably missing your boy too <brousch> a weekend is hard enough <rick_h_> fly out tomorrow, all good <brousch> i have placed a giant weather widget on my desktop. my conversion to kde is complete <Wolfger> \o/ <jjesse> yay <jjesse> rick_h_, you can't fly out today? <rick_h_> jjesse: naw, should have thought about it when I set it up <jjesse> its corporate policy to get consultants back on friday <rick_h_> but I think there's some policy on arriving/leaving weekends since that tends to keep ticket prices lower or something <rick_h_> I think probably because they'd have to comp or something your travel time on a weekend? <jjesse> might be different when you are billing customers <jjesse> yeah <jjesse> plus most of the time they are heading right back out <jjesse> there are times i spend weekend if its multiple weeks in same spot but otherwise its out sunday night, back friday night <rick_h_> gotcha <jjesse> i hate it when on friday i don't know where i'm going to be on mondayâ¦ customer told me he needed me onsite on monday but haven't had official confirmation :( time to punch him <Wolfger> indeed <brousch> kde is snappier than gnome-shell and unity <brousch> oh wow, nice. kde stores all of my notifications so i can go back through them if i missed something <snap-l> Good morning <snap-l> Downloading the precise images via bittoreent. <snap-l> Not to be confused with Bit torrent <Wolfger> you're not satisfied with imprecise images? <snap-l> nope <snap-l> I want 12.04 to be as precise as a pangolin <snap-l> Whatever that means. <snap-l> also, finally picked up The Sword's Warp Riders <snap-l> brousch: You're a Sabbath fan, right? <brousch> only with ozzy <brousch> dio is way too irritating <snap-l> Well, check this out anyway. <snap-l> Dio is definitely an acquired taste <snap-l> as is Ozzy, to a certain extent. :) <brousch> trudat <brousch> and actually i only like ozzy with sabbath, not afterwards <snap-l> http://ur1.ca/6amt7 <- The Sword <brousch> bill ward is probably my favorite drummer <snap-l> Not sure I'd go that far, by a long shot <snap-l> Like saying that Ringo Starr is your favorite drummer <snap-l> he just happens to be strongly associated with an act that you like, and fits it like a glove <brousch> :P <brousch> that is likely <snap-l> though I have a ton more respect for Charlie Watts outside of the Rolling Stones chair <Wolfger> Animal is my favorite drummer <snap-l> Also got clocking the fuck out of Mick Jagger <brousch> the sword is kind of sabbath-like <snap-l> Yeah, that's why I recommended them <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/457/ <- Charlie Watts <brousch> i don't really care for the singer, but the chronomancers sound good <snap-l> Yeah, the singer is an acquired taste <greg-g> Wolfger: ctrl+k is not two keystrokes *on going* I hold down ctrl+K and each time the K is repeated by my keyboard it deletes a line, where as every second time the d is repeated by my keyboard (while being held down) vim deleted a line. <Wolfger> :-p <rick_h_> get em greg-g <greg-g> :) <greg-g> g'morning <greg-g> well, afternoon for you all <greg-g> aha, I like the v and the line movements method! * greg-g hadn't used visual mode yet :) <rick_h_> greg-g: http://lococast.net/archives/241 <rick_h_> :) <greg-g> haha <Wolfger> sad... by the time greg-g gets here I'm already done with lunch and thinking about quitting time <rick_h_> greg-g: worth the 10min <greg-g> Wolfger: you should move to the west side, or just blame timezones, or the fact that world is round, or.... <Wolfger> ...or just continue to think of you as a lazy slacker who doesn't get rolling til after noon? ;-) <greg-g> sure, whatever blows up your skirt * Wolfger wonders if that's part of the California mystique <greg-g> :) I've actually been saying that instead of "float your boat" for going on 15 years <greg-g> holy cow, that's half my life (practically) <Wolfger> I meant the perception that you guys sleep til noon <greg-g> oh <greg-g> well, yeah, definitley not all of SF/bay area, just the college kids, like all college kids. <greg-g> actually quite the workaholic attitude out here, for better or worse <greg-g> (probably worse) <Wolfger> almost certainly <greg-g> (see the jwz's critique of some VC using his words about startups) <Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/58425/what-are-the-benefits-of-placing-the-concatenation-character-at-the-end-or-begin <Wolfger> +1 to "flip a coin and move on" <Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/33411/what-is-a-straight-playa-degree ROFL <Wolfger> Gotta love Programmers SE <Wolfger> s/Programmers/WastingTime/ <greg-g> Wolfger: I see you like the WastinTime aspect ;) <Wolfger> greg-g: after finally getting the updates from the vendor that I've been asking for, for a month, and finding everything is still just as fubar as before the updates.... yeah. Kinda lost enthusiasm for attempting to be productive. <greg-g> Wolfger: ugh, sorry :( <Wolfger> Kinda feeling like ripping somebody's head off, but lacking the energy to go do so. "It took you a month to give me something that doesn't work AT ALL?!?" <CrusaderAD> Anyone here use Glade or any other GUI development software? <brousch> i have used glade once or twice <CrusaderAD> Any other recommendations for a GUI platform? <brousch> no one makes desktop guis any more <brousch> but qt is the other big one <CrusaderAD> cool, I'll check that out... thanks <brousch> it was interesting at the gr dev day (former day of dotnet, so mostly MS devs) the keynote asked how many people were making desktop apps. only about 10% of the crowd raised their hand <brousch> rick_h_: you can transfer departments and work with django! https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=401 <CrusaderAD> brousch: what's all the rage now? mobile/tablet development? <brousch> web <CrusaderAD> lol thank god <brousch> there's a lot of interest in mobile too <snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/11/you-doom-us-all-to-inhuman-toil-for-the-one-whose-name-cannot-be-expressed-in-the-basic-multilingual-plane/ #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-03 <snap-l> Good morning <mydogsnameisrudy> Happy Saturday to ya <brousch> snap-l: my son made up a song on his drums he calls "Angry Birds" <snap-l> Hah. :) <snap-l> That's awesome <brousch> let's see if i can edit this <snap-l> Heading out to get more fillings drilled out <snap-l> yeah! <brousch> ew <snap-l> brousch: Looking forward to seeing his composition. <brousch> brush your teeth d00d <brousch> i might just extract the audio. it's so dark downstairs the video is crap <snap-l> brousch: I do. These fillings are over 20 years old <snap-l> They're silver fillings <brousch> medibuntu is not behaving. i need my illegal codecs damnit! <rick_h_> phew I'm beat <snap-l> rick_h_: wb <rick_h_> woot <snap-l> The right side of my face is numb <rick_h_> ouch, watch out for your tongue <snap-l> Yeah, it's all good <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/84/detail/ <- Reminder <snap-l> And apparently it's showing up as 8pm in my calendar. <brousch> 8pm on mine <snap-l> Yeah, should be 9pm <brousch> ok <brousch> snap-l: son's original drum solo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib25lxsfQDo <brousch> and "angry birds" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YzygDIo0hs <snap-l> OK, I'll view those later <snap-l> heading out <brousch> i spammed them around the tubes <snap-l> brousch: He's a regular Elvin Jones. <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVOd1hK0_w #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-04 <brousch> snap-l: George says, "That one rocks!" <snap-l> Heh <snap-l> Tell him he rocks too. :) <snap-l> He's going to be a fine drummer. He's got rhythm. <brousch> it's scary <brousch> we play wii music. i can barely push the button on the note and he is improvising to the music <brousch> snap-l: hah, thanks for the email. i thought the meeting was tonight <snap-l> Nope, tomorrow <brousch> i was planning my exercising tonight around it <snap-l> jcastro: http://lockerz.com/s/161811222 <snap-l> Good morning <brousch> so far <snap-l> I really, really hate Yahoo right now <snap-l> Forgot my password for my throw-away account on there, and can't manage to get back in <snap-l> Apparently I gave them a secret question <rick_h_> party <rick_h_> oops <snap-l> yeah, even better is I'm logged into it under Firefox, but not Chrome <snap-l> Ah, here we go <rick_h_> yay! victory <snap-l> Not yet, just found the password file that had it in there. <snap-l> Also, Yahoo just LOVES captchas. <snap-l> And all of this is to try to get access to some stupid file in their groups section. <snap-l> And, complete and abject failure <rick_h_> ouch <snap-l> Can't associate my email with my Yahoo ID. <snap-l> and this is why I hate Yahoo <brousch> yahoo is crap <brousch> flickr is all they have,and i don't use it because it's too annoying to login <mydogsnameisrudy> wonders why snap-l is using yahoo then <brousch> he enjoys pain <mydogsnameisrudy> oh i c <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: There's several mailing lists for games that I enjoy <snap-l> and one of them mentioned that they have some files in their group files area <snap-l> Which unless you're joined to said group with a yahoo account, you can't access. <brousch> you can usually link to your google account <snap-l> brousch: Yes, I know <snap-l> and apparently you can do the same with Yahoo!, at least when it's working properly and doesn't act like a total cockmonkey. <snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/123144/using-c-but-not-using-the-languages-specific-features-should-switch-to-c <brousch> see what i mean about liking pain. he willingly reads programmers.se <jrwren> anyone thinking C will give perf boost over C++ has not followed C++ compilers lately. <snap-l> jrwren: Well, unless you can name a reason why you're using C++ over C, you have no business using either. :) <jrwren> ha! <jrwren> i like that. <greg-g> g'morning <rick_h_> afternoon * greg-g is still drinking his coffee * rick_h_ is using toddler nap time for bookie hacking <greg-g> rick_h_: glad to see the tweet about bookie hacking :) <greg-g> yay! <rick_h_> yea, with the new job and all that hard to find time <rick_h_> but getting stabs of needing to work on it some <greg-g> yeah, I hear ya, new jobs are always time sucking, at least at first <rick_h_> yea, and holidays to boot <greg-g> yeah :) <greg-g> but, things going positively at LP, rick_h_ ? <rick_h_> yea, I think so <rick_h_> it's interesting to see inside of a bit <greg-g> yeah, I bet <greg-g> we've setup some xmas stuff already: http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/tags/xmas/ <jjesse> nice <jjesse> our christmas tree is a fake tree that is light and decorated already <jjesse> each year we "take it down" by covering the tree with the tree skirt and putting in the storage in the basement :) <greg-g> I like those too <greg-g> carrie loves christmas so we tend to go out a bit more than average <jjesse> my wife does as well, i'm not a big christmas fan but Caleb seems to love it as well <jjesse> so i guess i'm becoming less of a grinch <rick_h_> you give me hope <jjesse> me? <rick_h_> with the boy's birthday, and all the events are out at other people's houses...I'm a bit of a grinch still <greg-g> :) <rick_h_> wife's bugging me to get a tree and I'm like "I just got back, we have no where to put it, we're not going to be here for it anyway..." <greg-g> wait, when's your boy's bday, rick_h_ ? <rick_h_> 28th <greg-g> oh nice <rick_h_> but we're doing his birthday before Christmas this year <greg-g> gotcha <rick_h_> oh yea...it sucks... <rick_h_> we get flooded with gifts and have to do double christmas/birthday. Hide half his gifts and bring them out through the year <jjesse> that stinks a bit <rick_h_> plus just rotten timing to get family together. Everyone's already booked <jjesse> rick_h_, so you survived your week trip? <rick_h_> jjesse: barely <rick_h_> was done for Friday <jjesse> yeah? <rick_h_> and had to get up 3:30am to make the airport on Sat <jjesse> ouch been there done that <jjesse> i'm off to Indy for the week <rick_h_> so nice to be behind my own desk, full keyboard, triple monitors, etc <rick_h_> and sleep in my own bed <rick_h_> jjesse: cool, have fun in indy. Just don't ask any colts fans how they're doing :) <jjesse> hahaha <rick_h_> I did get my new backpack though, <3 <jjesse> going to investing customer has people in EMEA, APAC and Indy i have to work w/ <rick_h_> getting a nice TUMI for christmas <jjesse> going to be interesting <jjesse> oooo TUMI so jealous <rick_h_> so the Budapest trip in Jan should be nice <rick_h_> I don't even know what EMEA and APAC are... <jjesse> sorry Europe (Europe Middle East and Afrrica) and Asia and Pacific <rick_h_> oic <rick_h_> yea, that's fun stuff. It's funny how strange everyone's hours are when people are everywhere <jjesse> good news is its 1 week on site for and 2 weeks remote <rick_h_> remote == from home? <jjesse> yup <rick_h_> nice <jjesse> yeah excited <greg-g> gnome-shell as tiling window manager (via plugin) http://gfxmonk.net/shellshape/ <greg-g> rick_h_: Blazeix brousch ^^ <jrwren> greg-g: real tree? <greg-g> jrwren: yep <greg-g> jrwren: got it from a school fundraising thingy <snap-l> We're debating on whether to put up the real tree, or put up the Charlie brown Christmas Tree <mydogsnameisrudy> going to the woods and cutting one down <jrwren> good looking real tree <brousch> greg-g: kubuntu is actually growing on me <greg-g> brousch: cool <brousch> it's uglier, but i feel like i can make it do whatever i want <brousch> more linuxy <Neal__> WOW. Hi Craig <snap-l> Hello, Neal <snap-l> Welcome. :) <snap-l> Good to talk with you on the phone <Neal__> Thank You...Been trying to get set-up with 11.10, and anxious to learn whatever I can. <snap-l> Awesome. <Neal__> OK. Thanks fore the help getting in here. I have some 'paper work' to chatchup on before I can really concentrate on the learnin' thing. See you in a short while. <snap-l> np. Feel free to hang out if you want. <brousch> snap-l is doing phone support now? <brousch> good side job <snap-l> brousch: For Ubuntu, yes. :) <brousch> 9pm tonight, oh fearless leader? <snap-l> si <snap-l> or was that directed at greg-g, since I'm the afeared leader. :) <brousch> greg-g is oh estranged leader <snap-l> /away Food #ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-05 <mydogsnameisrudy> 1 <snap-l> The meeting is at 9pm, not 8pm <mydogsnameisrudy> is there snacks? <Neal__> Back on now with the other system <Neal__> As a Nooby, I hope you folks don't get too tired of my questions <mydogsnameisrudy> there is only one stuped question that the one you dont ask <_stink_> why does my brain seem to remember us having our monthly meetings during the work day <_stink_> ? <jrwren> i don't recall that. <jrwren> your brain might be broken. <greg-g> rick_h_: jrwren you guys might enjoy this talk: http://vimeo.com/9270320 <greg-g> actually, everyone here, if you're a dev <greg-g> _stink_: snap-l ColonelPanic001 Blazeix smoser Wolfger ^^ <jrwren> thanks, I probably watched that 2yrs ago, cuz I read Greg Wilson's blog, but I'll watch again. <greg-g> ah, nevermind then :P <_stink_> jrwren: you are probably right about my brain. <snap-l> OK, I'm blaming greg-g for posting that video, of which I'm 27 minutes into it. :) <snap-l> Very interesting. :) <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/84/detail/ <snap-l> Welcome, one and all to the December meeting of #ubuntu-us-mi <brousch> i'm here! i remembered! <snap-l> the agenda is posted in the link above <snap-l> brousch: Gold star <brousch> yeah! <snap-l> If anyone has anything else to put in the agenda, please either add it to the meeting, ir bring it up once the agenda items have been exhausted <snap-l> 1. Pangolin images <snap-l> Just so everyone is aware, Alpha 1 of Precise Pangolin (12.04) dropped earlier this week <snap-l> so fire up your bit-torrent and download 'em. :) <snap-l> I'm personally focusing on running these images in a VM, and helping to squash bugs <snap-l> Anyone installed them yet (in a VM, or otherwise?) <brousch> i am a wimp <brousch> i don;t think i;ve ever run an alpha <snap-l> That's OK <snap-l> Personally, I've waited for RCs in the past <snap-l> but I think it'd be helpful since this is a Long Term Support (LTS) version <brousch> ooooh, that's right <snap-l> We'll be living with this sucker for 5 years. :) <snap-l> Anyone know when the next global jam day is, btw? <snap-l> Hm, not sure it's been announced yet <snap-l> There'll be more stuff happening, likely after the first of the year. <snap-l> Anyone got anything else on Pangolin for now? <snap-l> If not, we'll move on to item #2. <snap-l> 3... <snap-l> 2... <snap-l> 1.......................... <snap-l> OK, moving on to item 2 <snap-l> Team reports <snap-l> Just a quick reminder that team reports are still out there. :) <snap-l> I know November hasn't had much going on outside of CHC and the meetings for the east siders <snap-l> brousch: Anything happening on the west side of note? <brousch> just the usualy grlug meetings <snap-l> kk <snap-l> If anyone else has done anything during the past few months as part of the loco, and doesn't see it mentioned in the team reports, feel free to add it, or find someone to give you access to add it. :) <snap-l> It's a wiki. It wants to be edited. :) <brousch> actually we have been working on a big project. it's all ubuntu, so that's kind of cool <brousch> and python <snap-l> brousch: What's that? <brousch> it's a touchscreen gambling thing for overseas and canada <snap-l> seriously? :) <brousch> they ran on windows, but crashed a lot, so we've been working on getting the touchscreen, receipt printer, and bill validator working <snap-l> Hah, that's awesome. <brousch> something like 450 units shipping <brousch> we are not selling them, just getting the linux part running for the manufacturer <snap-l> Which manufacturer? <snap-l> There's only a handful of them out there. <brousch> i have no idea <brousch> wait, this is it http://doncarboneentertainment.com/ <snap-l> Regardless, that's very cool. I'm jealous. <snap-l> Don Carbone. Sunds like a Godfather character. ;) <brousch> i know, kind of scary <snap-l> http://doncarboneentertainment.com/images/DC%20Entertainment%20&%20Sportbetting%20Porfolio_2_img_10.jpg <snap-l> That's pretty strange. :) <snap-l> Anywho... <brousch> flash app <snap-l> Cool that they're tapping in to the community for help <brousch> yes, well, kind of a roundabout thing there <snap-l> I've long held that Windows doesn't have a place in vending equipment. <snap-l> And if they allow the results to be OSSed, that would be a huge win <brousch> i was surpised the group went with ubuntu since they mostly use other distros <snap-l> I know there's several folks out there that were looking for help with bill changers and Linux <brousch> yeah, they're kind of a bitch. the last thing we're working on i think <snap-l> Anyways, major rathole aside... :) <snap-l> 2b: IRC meetings for 2012 <snap-l> I know we mentioned moving this meeting in the past <snap-l> and I'm not opposed to that <Neal__> Looks kind of like Party Poker <snap-l> seems that Sunday nights are a little quiet for participation <brousch> shouldn't be <snap-l> So, I'd like to ask if folks want to move the meeting to a different day / time, or if this is working just fine. <mydogsnameisrudy> im up at 5am <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: I'm not <mydogsnameisrudy> ok <snap-l> and will never be, unless someone lit a fire under me <snap-l> (this is not an invitation) * brousch puts the matches away <snap-l> Might be better to ask this on the mailing list. :) <brousch> that would make sense <snap-l> Since that way we can get more of the folks that aren't here. :) <snap-l> OK, I'll post something on the list, and we'll get some feedback that way. <snap-l> OK, any other team Business? <snap-l> Any other business in general? <mydogsnameisrudy> what can someone new do to help <brousch> evangelize? <Neal__> What/where are the teams? <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: There's also assisting with bug reporting, development, packaging <mydogsnameisrudy> i could load the alpha on a system and test it <brousch> there is only the michigan team <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: that would be aswesome, but I'd caution against using it on your main machine for now <brousch> but we have sub-groups in locations where anyone wants to run one <snap-l> not that I think it'll do bad things, but I don't want you upset if it does. :) <mydogsnameisrudy> i have a few laptops <mydogsnameisrudy> ok ill look into that then <snap-l> There are several teams that you can get involved with as well <snap-l> #ubuntu-community-team for helping with the community teams <snap-l> I'd recommend checking out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams for each of the teams that are out there <Neal__> As new as I am, I'd be hardpressed to add much I'm sure. <snap-l> (not sure how up-to-date that list is, but it'll give you a start) <snap-l> Neal__: Nothing wrong with diving in. :) <snap-l> We all start green <brousch> brown <snap-l> but then some of us go blue instead. ;) <Neal__> Ya...I feel like I've still got a ways to go just to be green. <snap-l> Neal__: That's why we're here. <snap-l> We help each other grow <snap-l> There are also several of our members that have become Canonical employees <snap-l> and others that are mistaken for being Canonical employees. <Neal__> Ubuntu is that companies <snap-l> Canonical is the company behind Ubuntu <Neal__> 'Oops...Ubuntu is that companies 'Baby' right? <snap-l> but they don't own or control it <snap-l> The community drives it <Neal__> OK <snap-l> although at times Ubuntu has been taken in directions by Canonical <Neal__> Like now with the Unity thingy? <snap-l> It's not nearly as contentious as some blogs / news organizations make it out to be. :) <snap-l> Neal__: Yep, that's a good example. <Neal__> I just got it, and really do like it <snap-l> That's awesome. <mydogsnameisrudy> classic <snap-l> Before we get too far into the weeds, any other business? <snap-l> if not, we can call this meeting adjourned. <snap-l> Thanks everyone for showing up, and participating. Stay awesome! <mydogsnameisrudy> bring in the dancing girls <jrwren> and boys <Neal__> Break out the B........... <mydogsnameisrudy> oh not that <snap-l> Full production number. * jrwren wayves show fingers <snap-l> JAZZ HANDS <mydogsnameisrudy> ok is the alpha out on iso? <snap-l> It's available for download, but I believe this is not going to fit on a CD-R <jjesse> evening <snap-l> I believe this release is going to break the 650MB limit. <mydogsnameisrudy> dvd then <jjesse> snap-l, they announced it at UDS <jrwren> CD is dead tech. <jrwren> i want netboot back. <jjesse> for 12.04 <jrwren> 10yrs ago debian TFTP booted and installed all from FTP/HTTP extremely well. <snap-l> jrwren: I want a gigabit pipe to my house. <brousch> you can still do that <brousch> one of the guys in grlug does it <jrwren> i do it in my home, but I setup a mirror on my home box to do it. <snap-l> TFTP, talk about dead tech <jrwren> I've not seen it done with ubuntu to a non mounted package source. <jrwren> TFTP ain't dead, it is used everywhere. <brousch> they might tftp boot the iso <jrwren> well, not exactly, but very close to that, yes. <jrwren> that is what I do. <jrwren> but i'm talking, you only download a 10MB bootstrap, boot that, and the rest is http, you don't have to download separately. <jjesse> just PXE boot the sucker and pull it from a mapped drive <brousch> debian still has that <_stink_> +a. <_stink_> er <_stink_> +1. <jrwren> yeah, debian does, why ubuntu never adopted it, I'll never understand. i guess because of hte power of the CDR <snap-l> Yep, the CD-R is powerful <mydogsnameisrudy> everyone has one now <jrwren> i don't. <jrwren> i'm getting rid of mine. <jrwren> i almost never use optical media of any kind. <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: except for Macbook Airs, my IBM Thinkpad X120E, and a slew of Netbooks. :) <snap-l> jrwren: But, how do you rip CDs? :) <mydogsnameisrudy> the everyday person will have one <rick_h_> snap-l: you're forgetting you're in the aging crowd of "buying physical media" <jjesse> i have a usb cd/dvd that i use <snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, I thought I was in the crazy crowd of "hoarders" <jjesse> i took the cd drive out of laptop for an extra drive <jrwren> snap-l: touche! <jrwren> i still love audio cds. <jrwren> i still buy 'em. <jrwren> digital is great and all, but I like the art, I like buying from the artist. <snap-l> rick_h_: I wanted to punch someone in the neck when I heard on TWiT that Spotify can replace physical and m3 downloads. <jrwren> probably more than 75% of my music has been signed by artist over the past 5 yrs :) <snap-l> If they sold FLAC, I might not care so much <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I know. but I did some polling, in my family I think I can round towards 80% haven't bought a cd this year <rick_h_> itunes + streaming ftw <jrwren> dude, nearly every sentence I hear on TWIT makes me wnat to punch someone. <snap-l> assuming artwork and other stuff. <rick_h_> and that's a lot of younger kids, etc <rick_h_> jrwren: heh, it does wear after a bit doesn't it <snap-l> yeah, I'm the only one buying CDs <rick_h_> snap-l: someone is buying them, they're still all over stores <mydogsnameisrudy> last cd i got was the blackkeys <rick_h_> but I'm having a hard time finding those people these days <snap-l> rick_h_: Blame me <rick_h_> I think the cd player in cars is to blame <snap-l> I love CD sound over Mp3s <rick_h_> my aunt had, but only because she can't hook her phone up to her caddy <rick_h_> the FM tuner crap is awful enough that she bought a cd vs via her handset <jrwren> i'm fine with mp3, as long as I know from where it came. <snap-l> Yeah, I'd believe it <snap-l> jrwren: there's a huge sonic difference. <jrwren> show me the EAC log and make it lame v0 <jrwren> no there isn't. <snap-l> Even between 320KB <jrwren> most of us don't have the audio equipment or the ears to hear the difference. <snap-l> jrwren: Want to take the test? :) <jrwren> I've taken the test. <jrwren> i know my ears, I know mp3 <snap-l> I can tell the difference. <jrwren> 320 is poorer than v0 <jrwren> VBR > CBR <snap-l> good headphones, excellent source material <snap-l> stereo separation is key <jrwren> yes, I have to pull out my sennheiser hd25 to tell <snap-l> mp3 joint stereo kills the soundstage more than anything <jrwren> my usual shit phones or in ears don't cut it. <jrwren> why is that? it is still stereo. <snap-l> It tries hard to compress it down <jrwren> ah, joint stereo is only when v is 4 or higher with lame... so NEVER use it. <jrwren> v0 is only thing I use. v2 isn't too bad if you REALLY need extra squeez <jrwren> neither uses joint stereo <snap-l> i compress OMC with v0 <snap-l> I'd release with FLAC if I had the disk / bandwidth <jrwren> but this is kinda the point... if you don't know how it was compressed, and you have never heard a lossless, how do you know what you are hearing? right? <snap-l> Well, and I think that's where people make the mistake that digital = crap <jrwren> i don't buy amazon or itunes or anything, becuase I have no idea how it was compressed <snap-l> and why we're seeing a resurgence in Vinyl. <jrwren> right. <jrwren> hehe. <jrwren> and hipster audio cassettes! <snap-l> God, audio cassettes are the worst <snap-l> All the sound of a sock drawer mixed witht he reliability and long-term wear of vinyl. <snap-l> The only thing they offered was portability <snap-l> but when CDs came down in price, and portable units were inexpensive, I knew that CD was the way to go <jrwren> portability and easy recordability <mydogsnameisrudy> cya at 5am im off <snap-l> laterness. <snap-l> I'm off as well <Neal__> Was fun...I'll be back.... <snap-l> Neal__: Awesome! <snap-l> Neal__: btw: if you want, at a later time we can show you specialized clients for connecting to IRC <snap-l> so you don't have to keep a web browser up <rick_h_> ugh, still so sleepy <mydogsnameisrudy> morning ..... it snowed today <brousch> ug work power outage is always fun <brousch> at least nothing died this time <rick_h_> well that is a plus <brousch> it's extra fun because i still have some things on old servers, so i have to fire up 4 things in a certain order <rick_h_> oh joy, automate automate <mydogsnameisrudy> did a dualboot of 12.04 alpha installer crashed ;) <rick_h_> python runs on windows I hear :) <brousch> automate pushing power buttons? <rick_h_> sure, you don't have a fancy remote control power strip you can send messages to? :) <rick_h_> sorry, I read that as "in a certain folder" <brousch> doesn't do much good when the first thing i need to turn on is the internet firewall <mydogsnameisrudy> wonders is brouschs chair has wheels on it <brousch> :P <brousch> it does, but i don't ride it into work <Wolfger> morning <brousch> monday <brousch> deasnakes PPA ftw http://readthedocs.org/docs/ncoghlan_devs-python-notes/en/latest/venv_bootstrap.html <rick_h_> brousch: yea, PPAs are nice <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, the installer crashed on me as well <snap-l> for 12.04 <snap-l> amd64 <mydogsnameisrudy> its running now <snap-l> Near the end it crashes <snap-l> I filed a bug report on it <rudyonalpha1> test <snap-l> Received. <rudyonalpha1> thx <rudyonalpha1> hmmm were did they hide the screensaver optoins <snap-l> Gnome 3 doesn't believe in screensavers. <snap-l> not sure if they're coming back in 11.10, but for 11.10, the only option is blank screen <rudyonalpha1> oh lol ok so there is not screensaver <snap-l> ayep <rudyonalpha1> firefox will not install flash plugins <brousch> barbaric <snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/850264 <- This would explain the installer bug <rudyonalpha1> im not on amd64 so is that something else <rudyonalpha1> it crashed on the cd installer , then worked after it got to gui screen installer <smoser> greg-g, that talks really good. <smoser> but i have to work, and wasn't able to be cause i was paying attention to it. <smoser> http://vimeo.com/9270320 for others. <snap-l> Yeah, I downloaded it and watched it <snap-l> Basically, it's being skeptical <Wolfger> snap-l: being skeptical on the internet? Hmph. I find that hard to believe.... <Wolfger> XD <rick_h_> heh, it's basically "software dev as a business == computer science == science...let's treat it like that kthx <snap-l> rick_h_: Exactly. <snap-l> I love it when people say that Comp Sci isn't a science, or is a soft science <brousch> it's a pseudoscience, like astrology <rick_h_> snap-l: well I'm playing a little loose. I don't think you can say computer science is the study of software development <brousch> cryptozoology <_stink_> cosmetology <ColonelPanic001> I don't think of CS as a science any more than I do political science <ColonelPanic001> maybe a little more. <rick_h_> but the point is there's science to the practice, so quit trying to make decisions based
{'channel': 'ubuntu-us-mi', 'month': 12}