#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-01 <ScottL> hi rlameiro :) <rlameiro> ScottL: hey :D <ScottL> rlameiro, would you be interested in helping to test some backports? <ScottL> if we get two people to test packages we should be able to get them accepting into the official backports <rlameiro> I can test stuff on 10.04 <rlameiro> i am running it, its my main enviroment, so no prob <rlameiro> I do audio stuff on another install <ScottL> rlameiro, here is the plan for the lucid backports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Backports <ScottL> if you were curious to help with packaging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelpfor the backports here is the build documentation i'm working on : <ScottL> crappy touch mouse moving my cursor <ScottL> if you were curious to help with packaging for the backports, here is the build documentation that i'm working on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp <rlameiro> i will look into that <rlameiro> at the moment i am kinda busy with the thesis, but after that i will try stuff <ScottL> no rush rlameiro, it will be a continuing work in progress without any particular due date :) <rlameiro> ohh ok <rlameiro> ScottL: cont with me <rlameiro> when you have stuff to test nock me up :D <rlameiro> I will look later into the package stuff <rlameiro> another stuff I need to do, is to define the specific test to each workflows, or maybe if it is possible a more than a test for each <rlameiro> ScottL: just corrected a typo on the lucid number :D <rlameiro> holstein: maybe you could send a 15 minutes notice to the mailing list :D <holstein> on it <rlameiro> holstein: lol, I was joking :D <rlameiro> but ok <rlameiro> he he scott-upstairs has moved to upstairs :D meeting on :D <holstein> rlameiro: hehe <holstein> i did it ;) <holstein> i meant to do one at an hour out <rlameiro> its nice, maybe people can remeber it :D <holstein> oops <holstein> that was an irc meetin reminder <holstein> oh well <rlameiro> lol <rlameiro> crimsun: are you on? <holstein> i'll grab the text out of that freenode webchat client <holstein> and email it around after the meet :) <rlameiro> you should check if it logs :D <holstein> ubottu or ubuntulo1 probably do right? <ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) <holstein> the channel is logged somewhere <rlameiro> yes it is <rlameiro> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ <rlameiro> they are logged if the bots are logged in <scott-upstairs> for those who are curious, you can find the logs at: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/ <scott-upstairs> navigate through the month and day, then find ubuntustudio-devel.html or .txt <holstein> cool <holstein> ill just find it there to email out later <holstein> hey tomwilso <rlameiro> TIME! <holstein> #startmeeting <tomwilso> hey holstein how are you this evening? <scott-upstairs> just curious, who is here for the meeting? <holstein> tomwilso: not bad at all <scott-upstairs> obviously me :) <rlameiro> I am for the meeting <holstein> scott-upstairs: o/ <scott-upstairs> stochastic_, are you going to make it? <rlameiro> stochastic_: are you there? <holstein> abogani: <holstein> astraljava: ?? <rlameiro> a ping channel function would be awesome :D <holstein> you can right? <holstein> i just dont know how <rlameiro> is it possible? <rlameiro> i dont know f it is <holstein> i guess not a ping really <rlameiro> well, maybe we could wait a little bit more, else this will not be much productive anyway <holstein> yeah <holstein> 5 or 10 <scott-upstairs> i noticed the alpha1 image isn't available anymore, i wonder why <superchinawokvid> hey there <scott-upstairs> hi superchinawokvid, are you here for the meeting? <holstein> hello superchinawokvid :) <superchinawokvid> i am <superchinawokvid> im luis <rlameiro> well, people is coming from the web interface :D <superchinawokvid> zstrickland@example.net <superchinawokvid> super china wok video drivers, OI! <holstein> we might hold for a few minutes <holstein> not long though <holstein> and you axman1971 ?? <holstein> welcome :) <axman1971> thanks <axman1971> first meeting, hello room <rlameiro> hello <superchinawokvid> so how is everyone <holstein> i think this is the first meeting in a while anyways <rlameiro> cold brrrrr <holstein> yeah, it got cold here too <axman1971> forgive me I'm currently multitasking. <holstein> rlameiro: not as bad as where you are though <rlameiro> holstein: sure? we have 6 C over here now... <superchinawokvid> word <rlameiro> i tought you were on a colder place than me... <holstein> not right now <superchinawokvid> i was looking at the us site today <superchinawokvid> and its really depressing <superchinawokvid> am i the only one <superchinawokvid> who thinks this <holstein> nah <holstein> thats why we are here :) <rlameiro> superchinawokvid: well, i think a lot of us share the same feeling <holstein> or the main reason <rlameiro> if not all <rlameiro> the feeling it gives me its like the site its a fas hack <rlameiro> fast* <holstein> personally, i dont mind the old site <holstein> but, im into a change as well <holstein> moving forward <rlameiro> well, there is little info for new comers <holstein> right <holstein> i dont think its clear that the audience is newcomers <holstein> OR was <holstein> when that site was put up <holstein> and thats one perspective as well <rlameiro> well, it should be also, at least for the studio, not for linux <holstein> i think a lot of thought has been going into who the target audience is <holstein> and who it should be <rlameiro> of course, its a simple site that did its job <holstein> i think the workflow ideas are great <superchinawokvid> yeah <superchinawokvid> i reallllly dig opensuse's site <superchinawokvid> i mentioned this earlier in the emails <holstein> someone coming from another OS can see how we do a specific task <rlameiro> holstein: is there some agenda? <holstein> rlameiro: i think scott-upstairs is just going to facilitate <holstein> drop some links <superchinawokvid> also where is scott <holstein> i dont think we have an official agenda <superchinawokvid> http://www.opensuse.org/en/ <rlameiro> ok. <holstein> its really just site talk that needs to happen <superchinawokvid> who is going to do this though <superchinawokvid> there was a sweet mock up <superchinawokvid> what happened to that <rlameiro> well, maybe we should talk about that when meeting starts <holstein> i really like http://ubuntu-tweak.com/ <holstein> superchinawokvid: i think there are several mockups <stochastic_> hi all <stochastic_> sorry I'm late <tomwilso> http://ubuntu-tweak.com/ I really like that site as well <rlameiro> stochastic_: !!!! ma man!! <holstein> stochastic_: hey :) <holstein> nah, your right on time <scott-upstairs> i'm here (scott) * stochastic_ reads back scroll <scott-upstairs> hi stochastic_ :) <rlameiro> holstein: 2 more min.? <holstein> sure <scott-upstairs> if you recieved a qatracker email and tried to follow the link to test the image, it's a bad link apparently <scott-upstairs> use this instead: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20101130/ <scott-upstairs> if you _didn't_ receive an email from qatracker...sign up! :) <holstein> i had no idea <rlameiro> i did.. didnt followed the link tough <scott-upstairs> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all <rlameiro> persia: up for the meeting? <superchinawokvid> i have to go in about 20 minutes unfortuanetly <superchinawokvid> when will this begin <rlameiro> well, then maybe we should kick it <holstein> yup <holstein> go for it <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: the room is yours man! <scott-upstairs> oh, okay <scott-upstairs> for those who haven't seen it, here is the website development page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp <scott-upstairs> i don't really have a plan, maybe we should open it up to see people's thoughts <holstein> i do like the darker ones <rlameiro> i really like the first dark theme <stochastic> I personally like the "Impact" theme as a mockup - does need a touch of refining though <holstein> yeah, impact is great <rlameiro> yeap, i dont dislike it either <rlameiro> it has a more clean look <scott-upstairs> i like the dark theme for audio horizons, namely the layout and the functionality already presented <holstein> audio horizons seems very polished <holstein> you guys think its too busy? <scott-upstairs> it seems the major consensus is that *a* dark theme is preferred <rlameiro> I dont.... but i am no designer <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: i would say yes <rlameiro> at leas to be on pair of the ubuntustudio theme <stochastic> in general I think the final look of the revamped site is on its way, however the next major obstacle for us to concentrate on is the functionality changes of the new site <scott-upstairs> stochastic, would a breakdown of functionality per page help? <stochastic> holstein, I would say I find audio horizons to be a touch busy <rlameiro> I think on planet <superchinawokvid> impact is the way to go <rlameiro> voting? <holstein> i like them both <holstein> i think i would have to go with impact in a vote now though <rlameiro> superchinawokvid , axman1971 pitch in when you see fit please <scott-upstairs> i'm good with impact if we can incorporate some of audio horizon's functionality into it <stochastic> rlameiro, a vote would be a good thing - then we can settle on one design and refine it <holstein> scott-upstairs: agreed <rlameiro> yes, that goes on the direction stochastic pointed, functionality <superchinawokvid> okay <rlameiro> well should we vote? <superchinawokvid> yes <superchinawokvid> lets do it <rlameiro> I will start <scott-upstairs> #OKAY, VOTE EITHER "AUDIO HORIZONS" OR "IMPACT" <rlameiro> #AH <holstein> impact +1 <superchinawokvid> "IMPACT" <tomwilso> impact <stochastic> #IMPACT <scott-upstairs> looks like impact is it :) <holstein> i think the impacts have it <rlameiro> ok. <rlameiro> design choosed <superchinawokvid> i think it makes the most sense <rlameiro> now to the stuff <holstein> yeah <rlameiro> #NEWS -------------------------------------------------------------- <holstein> stochastic: do you feel like the functionality changes are being addressed? <scott-upstairs> one thing i do like about audio horizons is the landing page how he has tabs that bring up differnet information about ubuntu studio <holstein> scott-upstairs: i like that as well <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: impact has a top menu <stochastic> holstein, is that not what we're about to start discussing? <holstein> however, i thought it was one of the things that made me find it busy <stochastic> maybe I should explain what I mean by functionality discussion <holstein> stochastic: yeah, i was just wanting to hear more about what your thouhts were <stochastic> In Drupal (or Wordpress if we decide to switch to that) we will be faced with a task of loading new modules in for many of the items suggested under the "rough site map" section - items like developer's blog aggregation, social media integration, or user suggestions <rlameiro> I dont want to be picky, but we should have some solid and firm decisions about the site today, in order to give directions to the people that will build the site <stochastic> all of these new modules of the site will need to be approved by canonical's security review panel before we're allowed to load them onto their servers (assuming we stick with canonical hosting) <holstein> rlameiro: agreed <stochastic> all of these approvals will take time and effort <tomwilso> Social media integration is definately the way to go I think <stochastic> so we should probably look over each of the "features" of that listing and start to pick ones that are higher priority and lower priority <scott-upstairs> excellent idea <holstein> stochastic: i like it <rlameiro> stochastic: agreed <holstein> your looking at the proposed site map? <rlameiro> I think top priority is Examples <rlameiro> show workflows etc <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i would like to stay with canonical hosting if viable <scott-upstairs> it just seems practical for the long term <stochastic> scott-upstairs, I agree totally on staying with canonical - it just makes the most sense <scott-upstairs> due to funding, i should add <rlameiro> well, canonical has a set of #LoCo Modules and other stuff pre aproved, at least for drupal <holstein> i think we can vote on that if needed <holstein> i agree on staying with connonical <stochastic> rlameiro, do you know where a list of those drupal modules are? <holstein> even if we have to scrap some features <rlameiro> stochastic: digging <scott-upstairs> we might even consider having a series of short meeting if necessary <stochastic> tomwilso, what type of social media integrations do you think would be needed for the site? <rlameiro> http://profarius.com/content/ubuntu-drupal-modules-released <holstein> i agree with some social media integration <holstein> but we dont want to detract from the forums that are already in place <holstein> maybe just highlight them <scott-upstairs> i think that social media might be one of the lower priorities at this point <holstein> going with something like drupal is a great idea though <holstein> its easy-ish to go in and add things later <holstein> without drastically revamping the whole thing <stochastic> holstein, we're already running drupal so that does make the most sense for the future <rlameiro> and AFAIK is the most used tool in ubuntu for websites <holstein> adding a module <holstein> here and there <rlameiro> cant connect to ubuntu servers... weird <rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingWebsite <rlameiro> can someone try this? <rlameiro> it doesnt open <scott-upstairs> i'm having trouble as well rlameiro <rlameiro> ok, canonical webservers might be down <tomwilso> stochastic, really just facebook so that artists and musicians on facebook can "like" or be friends with Ubustu site, maybe occasional updates when new things happen on the site <rlameiro> dont refres the trevamp wiki!!!! <holstein> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingWebsite <holstein> tomwilso: OK <holstein> that should be easy enough <holstein> and its just a link on the site <holstein> shouldnt be any security concer <stochastic> scott-upstairs, would you possibly be able to itemize what you think the priority feature set would be - I recall your ideas in this area to be fairly potent <holstein> my ubuntu loco team has facebook links up <scott-upstairs> news section, downloads, screenshots, tutorials, links to help (forums, help.ubuntu), user contributed media are among those i think are top priority <rlameiro> for me the top most are some workflows <rlameiro> they already give a lot of information <rlameiro> wich software the distro has, how to use, how to connect jack et etc etc <scott-upstairs> FAQ as well <holstein> yeah <stochastic> FAQ can be a difficult page to do well <holstein> FAQ in help <scott-upstairs> i realize that most of the things i listed are probably simple pages not requiring special modules <holstein> could be <stochastic> scott-upstairs, quite right <rlameiro> and that is a good thing :D <stochastic> but blog aggregation would not be <rlameiro> stochastic: but ubuntu already has a planet <scott-upstairs> yes, but ubuntu studio planet would be music/graphic/video focused <rlameiro> maybe it only a matter of asking the code <stochastic> rlameiro, the planet module is still in development <stochastic> not stable yet <scott-upstairs> stochastic, it was really just a suggestion, not release critical in my opinion <rlameiro> well, but ubuntu uses it doesnt? <stochastic> no, that's differnet <rlameiro> i am not talking about the module <rlameiro> I am talking about a planet.ubuntustudio.org <rlameiro> not a module <rlameiro> it could be a segway to the stable module after <rlameiro> ok <rlameiro> maybe we should focus on the more important stuff <rlameiro> What is definetively needed for Natty launch? <holstein> in the site? <rlameiro> yes <scott-upstairs> my opinion is that our original focus for the feature set would be to help new and inexperienced users understand _what_ ubuntu studio is and _how_ to use it <holstein> rlameiro: i dont know if there is anything really natty specific yet <holstein> that we need to think about for the site <holstein> i cant think of anything... <rlameiro> isnt the idea to launch the new site at the same time? <holstein> just updating the links when its final and all that <holstein> rlameiro: AH <holstein> maybe <stochastic> I was under the impression that no timelines were determined yet <tomwilso> also what makes ubuntu studio a better choice for some over protools, logic (other than price) <rlameiro> ohh, my bad then <holstein> yeah, im not sure about the timeline <stochastic> scott-upstairs, I like that as the main focus <scott-upstairs> stochastic, thank you :) <holstein> tomwilso: yeah, i like that <rlameiro> Well, then we should set a timeline, or else it will take ages <holstein> tomwilso: i like the way ardour covers that <tomwilso> holstein: me too! <scott-upstairs> holstein, you have a link? <holstein> http://www.ardour.org/download <holstein> it doesnt look good <holstein> BUT <stochastic> a secondary focus could be marketing of Ubuntu Studio (this would cover tomwilso's idea) <holstein> the scrolling deal at the bottom <holstein> where you pay <holstein> where it lists the prices of other DAWs <scott-upstairs> stochastic, good idea and i have some ideas about that as well when we get to that :) <holstein> not really the way we would want to tackle it <holstein> since we are not going for donations like that <holstein> BUT i like the way the information is presented there <stochastic> a quick side question - have we ever gotten permission to make money off Ubuntu Studio products (i.e. should the store be deleted)? TheMuso or Cory would know (maybe jussi?) <tomwilso> we could play on the fact the it is driven by like-minded musicians and artists for the sake of creativity and not by a corporation for the sake of a bottomlone <scott-upstairs> stochastic, part of the marketing would also be included on the landing page that audio horizons presents <holstein> to get a powerful computer with a DAW and something like JACK and all the MIDI and synths and everything else offered <holstein> who knows what that could cost <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i don't think the store ever got off the ground (i could be wrong) <scott-upstairs> but i was hoping to get that going again <scott-upstairs> but i wanted to settle some other things first before i dug into it (udpate seeds, website moving forward) <rlameiro> it could be nice, the money could go to pay devs to go to conferences <rlameiro> or sponsor the programming of a LV2 plugin:D <holstein> yeah, pay someone to write some things :) <rlameiro> well, we should focus... <holstein> yeah <holstein> we're approaching an hour <rlameiro> almost 2 AM over here <stochastic> okay, so we've narrowed down the primary focus of the features (and possibly a secondary one of marketing) <holstein> i think we're in a good spot <holstein> we could have another meeting about the site if needed <rlameiro> What would be inside the help menu? <holstein> seems like we got the basics <rlameiro> links to the forum <holstein> scott-upstairs: how do you feel about it <rlameiro> IRC <holstein> rlameiro: it could start that way <rlameiro> Wiki and help.ubuntu <holstein> FAQ's <rlameiro> where will the workflows get in? <stochastic> I'd sort of like to hear what the next few steps will be for the development of the site <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: ? <scott-upstairs> holstein, how do it feel about our current position? <holstein> yup <scott-upstairs> we seem to have made some definitive decisions <holstein> on moving forward with the site <scott-upstairs> i think we probably need to document some of them and prepare for the next meeting <rlameiro> I would say, at first implement the mockup on real <holstein> scott-upstairs: i like it <stochastic> does anyone have a server that can be dedicated to a mockup development? <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i do <rlameiro> ok <scott-upstairs> however, rlameiro, i think we should make a definitive list of what each page should entail before we move forward <rlameiro> for the next meeting, what nneds to be compiled? <tomwilso> rlameiro: workflows I would think would need to be one of the first things on the site after feature's as they really show what can be done and how <scott-upstairs> tomwilso, that would fall under showing people "how" to use ubuntu studio <scott-upstairs> and would definitely be included <rlameiro> Well, my idea is to have some splash to link to workflows <rlameiro> like Do stuff, check here how! <rlameiro> some kind of slogan like that <scott-upstairs> can we talk about a landing page? do people like the idea, do they hate it? <tomwilso> scott-upstairs, rlameiro: I dig it! <holstein> what do we mean by landing page? <holstein> like a pre-home page? <stochastic> scott-upstairs, we should have a private chat after the meeting (if you have time) about setting up the mockup development then <rlameiro> I would vote on having a nice enphasis on a direct link to workflows on the landing page <scott-upstairs> stochastic, certainly <scott-upstairs> holstein, sort of <holstein> ive never liked landing pages <holstein> BUT im flexible <scott-upstairs> by landing page i wanted a simplistic page that gives a good overview of _what_ ubuntu studio is <scott-upstairs> think of who will be searching for the website <stochastic> I do think that a landing page would be best (and it is included in the already agreed upon "Impact" theme) <scott-upstairs> it's probably people that really don't know much about ubuntu studio <scott-upstairs> and they probably don't even understand exactly what it is <holstein> im sure i'll like it when its laid out properly <rlameiro> well, that would mean that the home menu will point to a different page or to landing page? <scott-upstairs> might even be people who are unfamiliar with linux/ubuntu <stochastic> scott-upstairs, I sort of disagree with that analysis of who will be searching for the site <stochastic> there are both those people, and our current user base <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i also include people who have installed it and want to learn how to use it <scott-upstairs> more <rlameiro> stochastic: i think something like you, we should provide to our current user base too <stochastic> every release our users return to the website to find the newest version - even the expert users <rlameiro> ok <rlameiro> voting <stochastic> the website serves a number of different scales of user - and we shouldn't ignore any of them <scott-upstairs> stochastic, really? i figured most would go directly to the canonical server download page <rlameiro> LANDING PAGE ---- #YES or #NO <stochastic> #YES <scott-upstairs> #Yes <rlameiro> #YES <tomwilso> #yes <rlameiro> come on guys <holstein> #no <rlameiro> so it seems land page it is <holstein> landing page is a go :) <scott-upstairs> looks like we have a landing page, although that should be easy enough to change later if we don't like it <rlameiro> if it looks terrible, i think it is not mandatory to keep it tough :D <scott-upstairs> if i remember the little bit of drupal i learned before <rlameiro> ### LANDING PAGE ----> YES <rlameiro> ok, what will be inside of the landing page? <scott-upstairs> rlameiro, i like the audio horizons first page <scott-upstairs> it gives a nice overview of ubuntustudio but has tabs to describe other aspects of it, like jack <holstein> that would be a way to mix the ideas together <holstein> use that layout for a landing page <rlameiro> I tought on having a kind of "rooling track" with different stuff <holstein> wouldnt have to have so much text <stochastic> The contents of the landing page would be determined by the final design of the site map <scott-upstairs> but i don't know if having "tab" is a go with drupal <holstein> and linkx <holstein> stochastic: is that the way it will be? <rlameiro> stochastic: ok, so should we move to content? <holstein> OR would that be the home page? <holstein> and the landing page just links to the home page? <rlameiro> holstein: it will be like a page with links to most important stuff <holstein> OK <stochastic> usually a landing page is the homepage - it just has a different layout than the content pages <rlameiro> so content??? <rlameiro> Priority content? <stochastic> we basically need to refine the site map that has been roughed out on the wiki <rlameiro> ok, so we will pass by it now <stochastic> I think now that we have a priority focus and a secondary focus for the features the site map can be refined <rlameiro> ----#stay or #go------ <stochastic> maybe someone could volunteer to draft a 2nd site map <rlameiro> #News <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i'd be happy to do it <rlameiro> do we need to know what to refine? <stochastic> sounds good to me, do others agree with scott doing that? <tomwilso> I agree <stochastic> rlameiro, I trust scott's judgement <rlameiro> i agree, I a like scott-upstairs judgement <rlameiro> lol <scott-upstairs> although i think it would be good to get other's involvement <scott-upstairs> i fear this might become too one-sided from my involvement <stochastic> true, tomwilso would you be interested in helping scott? <tomwilso> So what exactly are we trying to do with the site map? trm it down? <tomwilso> absolutely, what kind of timeline are we looking at? <rlameiro> you can discuss that directly with scott if you accept :D <stochastic> I'd just say look through the first draft and correct anything that seems not needed or add anything that's missing now that we understand the site goals more <tomwilso> I'm down <tomwilso> :) <rlameiro> stochastic: any technichal issues you would like to add, since you are the more experienced over here about the website and its canonical connection? <scott-upstairs> stochastic, how soon would you like the 2nd site map draft? <scott-upstairs> a week, two weeks? <stochastic> I'm not in any rush for it <stochastic> I'm still working 60+ hour weeks <stochastic> I'll let you set your own timeline <stochastic> rlameiro, I don't think there are any immediate considerations that need to be talked about <rlameiro> ok <rlameiro> so will it be Drupal or Wordpress? <rlameiro> do we need to vote? <stochastic> I don't see any reason to switch away from Drupal <rlameiro> this could possible have inplications on the design side that i am not aware <scott-upstairs> rlameiro, i think we can probably get most of the features we need via modules in either <rlameiro> I cant really vote on this matter, I think we should vote on the one that can provide more stability <rlameiro> and it seems to be drupal <rlameiro> since canonical uses it <rlameiro> ok <rlameiro> DRUPAL is it? <scott-upstairs> well, canonical seems to be using both these days <scott-upstairs> but i think there will be less friction if we stick with drupal at this moment <rlameiro> its one more thing that gets decided and out of the way <stochastic> I should publicly note that I have a copy of the current site (in it's entire server form) that we can work off of - though access to this should be kept very very tight, so I will not readily be giving out copies or anything <scott-upstairs> let's stick with drupal because it currently has many advantages for us <rlameiro> ok # Platform is DRUPAL <stochastic> yes, unless there are a group of developers that are much more comfortable with wordpress (which it doesn't sound like) then there's no reason to move away from Drupal <holstein> drupal +1 <tomwilso> drupal for sure <rlameiro> ############ DRUPAL is the platform for the new site ########### <stochastic> I like drupal ;) <stochastic> let's go with drupal. <rlameiro> anything more about the site? <stochastic> rlameiro, I think we're probably good for toady. <rlameiro> ok <rlameiro> anything anyone want to pitch in about natty? <stochastic> should a next meeting time be estimated? like a month from now or so? <scott-upstairs> thank you everyone for participating, your involvement is both very helpful and appreciated <rlameiro> stochastic: did you know about pd extended comming into debian? <holstein> w00t <rlameiro> they are making a lot of packages <stochastic> rlameiro, I think you said something about that to me <holstein> great meeting guys :) <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i think having the next meeting in a month's time sounds good <stochastic> new years eve it is then <stochastic> ;) <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: about the website or the distro? <scott-upstairs> rlameiro, i was thinking for the website actually <scott-upstairs> do you want to discuss the distro? <rlameiro> maybe we should aim at somewhere between christhmas and new year <rlameiro> ahh <holstein> maybe december 21st <rlameiro> I think distro will need some discussing before that <holstein> if that seems to soon <holstein> after the new year <rlameiro> at least for the testing stuff, and maybe backports <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: well, 21 seems a nice time to do both together... <rlameiro> 21 or around <tomwilso> I'm all for the 21st <holstein> seems like this is an OK time of day <holstein> i mean, you cant please everybody :/ <rlameiro> stochastic: what is the best time for you? this? <rlameiro> its alittle bit late for european time.... starting the meeting at 1 AM <scott-upstairs> rlameiro, i think we probably shouldn't have both meetings together, we'd end up with a 2 hour meeting <rlameiro> but I am a night Owl...anyway <scott-upstairs> we are already at 1:30 <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: yea.. true <holstein> rlameiro: we cant really go much earlier <holstein> folks getting out of work <rlameiro> maybe some agenda will be needed for next meetings <rlameiro> holstein: I get it, i just were justifying the people that couldnt make it <stochastic> this meeting started at 5pm on my "sunday" and I occasionally do have a shift that starts at 6pm that day, a day earlier would be just fine for me at almost any hour <rlameiro> DEC. 20 could be <holstein> we could try the weekend <holstein> maybe 4p on a sunday <holstein> EST <tomwilso> works great for me :) <rlameiro> ...... not good idea, family and stufff, we should enforce time off :D <holstein> more like 9p for you rlameiro <rlameiro> for me its ok, but i dont know for scott <holstein> well, think about it <holstein> i'll probably just go for the same time on the 21st <holstein> for now <scott-upstairs> i'm good for almost any time <rlameiro> wait a sec.. <scott-upstairs> holstein, can we make it on a tuesday for stochastic <scott-upstairs> ? <holstein> yeah <holstein> 21st is a tuesday <holstein> IF we're talking december <rlameiro> holstein you coul set a doodle <rlameiro> http://www.doodle.com <holstein> rlameiro: i'll bookmark that <holstein> and give it a look <holstein> anything to simplify the process ;) <rlameiro> ok <rlameiro> finished then?? <holstein> i feel good :) <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: close the beast man! <stochastic> usually official meeting dates are posted to the ubuntu fridge <holstein> stochastic: maybe i'll hit you up on how to make that happen <holstein> or i'll ask akgraner <rlameiro> stochastic: are you still DJing? <stochastic> rlameiro, nope, no time to these days <holstein> alright... im off for a bit... thanks again <rlameiro> stochastic: sad man :( <stochastic> still have the equipment, but just don't use it <scott-upstairs> ubuntu servers are back up apparently <rlameiro> yep they are <rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDrupal <tomwilso> have a great night all! <tomwilso> I enjoyed it very much <rlameiro> tomwilso: you too <rlameiro> well it was a great meeting <rlameiro> a little bit confusing but :D some progress were made :D <rlameiro> thanks scott-upstairs and stochastic and superchinawokvid and holstein <rlameiro> cya all later <rlameiro> bye <scott-upstairs> thank you rlameiro and very true <superchinawokvid> thanks everyone for participating <superchinawokvid> i just got back from work <superchinawokvid> im sorry i couldnt contribute much * abogani waves all <scott-work> TheMuso: there is a report about ubuntustudio pre-alpha1 image not running a windows manager, do you think this might have anything to do with removing the desktop seed? <scott-work> sorry, we removed desktop-common <paultag> Wait, you did what? <paultag> I thought that has deps for the X11 and everything, so that the other seeds don't have to spec that, so long as it provides an X11 server + window manager <paultag> otherwise it starts doing silly things <paultag> I thought <TheMuso> scott-work: Don't know without checking for myself to be honest. <TheMuso> scott-work: There is a good chance that something is crashing though. <scott-work> TheMuso: sorry if i bugged you while you were asleep <TheMuso> Likely compiz, as its rather new at the moment. <TheMuso> np <scott-work> compiz was updated? changes because of unity? <TheMuso> Yes. <scott-work> hmmm, unfortunate timing coinciding with the seeds update :/ <holstein> disable compiz? <scott-work> i've been working on the ubuntu studio team report https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/10/November <scott-work> if anyone wants to add anything, please feel free :) <scott-work> TheMuso: i would be happy to assist you in anyway i can, i can even leave work early today if needed <TheMuso> scott-work: assist with what? <scott-work> TheMuso: with the compiz situation <TheMuso> ah I don't know whats going on there. <TheMuso> Just that people have been experiencing crashes even for vanilla ubuntu #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-02 <scott-work> fielded a request to offer updated for TechOverview for Natty Alpha 1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview#Ubuntu%20Studio <scott-work> if anyone sees something wrong or think something should be added please let me know <TheMuso> scott-upstairs: I was thinking about the lack of a window manager issue that was reported, and I think I know what the problem is. <TheMuso> There are 2 different sessions now, one for unity, and one for GNOME. I suspect studio still has the unity session set by default, but since unity is not on the disks, things don't go right/something probably crashes. I think we shoudl explicitly set the classic GNOME session to avoid any possible problems. <TheMuso> As to how that is done, I am not yet sure. <ScottL> TheMuso, charlie-tca notes that "switching to classic" worked for him <TheMuso> Right. <TheMuso> SO that explains it then. <ScottL> TheMuso, if there is any testing you need or want me to contact someone for information, please let me know <TheMuso> ScottL: Sure, I just need to work out how to change the default session. #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-03 * abogani waves all <ScottL> hi abogani , how are you? <abogani> ScottL: I'm very well, thank you. <abogani> ScottL: How are you? <ScottL> abogani, i am well, but it doesn't feel like i have time for the things i want to do :/ <ScottL> although i am hoping to finish some recording this month that were started almost two months ago :) <abogani> ScottL: :-) #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-04 <ronj> hoy hoy, just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/685049 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 685049 in ffmpeg-extra (Ubuntu) "libavutil-extra-50 & libavcodec-extra-52 conflicts cause ubuntustudio natty alpha1 iso install to fail" [Undecided,New] <kubotu> why not just kubuntu-dvd ? <ronj> also, currently there are (probably due to unity and ubustu metapackages not updated) no gnome-panel <falktx> hi <kubotu> KDE bug 258400 in powermanagement "[powerdevil] suspend / hibernate not avaliable without hal in KDE <ubottu> KDE bug 258400 in powermanagement "[powerdevil] suspend / hibernate not avaliable without hal in KDE 4 6beta1" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258400 <kubotu> oh, I've noticed that since removing HAL I no longer get suspend/hibernate options in KDE 4 6beta1" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] <falktx> persia: hi <falktx> persia: i noticed alessio is looking for a fix for composite <falktx> persia: I have the patch to fix, do you have alessio (quadispro) mail? <ScottL> falktx, i think you can use the "Contact This Person" button on his launchpad page <ScottL> kubotu, why do you keep talking about kde here? <ScottL> kubotu, are you a bot? <kubotu> which emmc bin are you downloading? <falktx> ScottL: yep, I did it #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-05 <ScottL> holstein, ping me when you get back <holstein> ScottL: ping <ScottL> holstein, hey, could you email the mailing list about the website meeting? <ScottL> holstein, mention the decision made and the date/time of the next meeting? <holstein> ScottL: i'll get on it <holstein> if you dont see it tonite, feel free to remind me again <holstein> ill try to find a link to the logs from last time <ScottL> holstein, thanks :) how are you doing this weekend? <holstein> not bad <holstein> my face is much better <holstein> less swollen from my surgery <holstein> and i got some work <holstein> ScottL: hows about you? <ScottL> i saw on #OSMs guitarman telling you to take your medicine to reduce the swelling <ScottL> cool about the work <ScottL> holstein, this weekend started a little rough, i found out friday afternoon that a good friend (who i worked with also) died friday morning <holstein> w0w <holstein> sorry to hear that <ScottL> i don't know the cause of death at this moment, i suppose we'll get the word monday morning <ScottL> thanks holstein <ScottL> holstein, this will probably help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/10/November <ScottL> i think it has all the decisions that were made, plus the irc logs <ScottL> the only thing i think it is missing is mentioning a decision for another meeting and the date for it <ScottL> holstein, thanks for getting the email out <ScottL> i still don't know who tomwilso is :/ <ScottL> do you? <holstein> lol <ScottL> i wonder how reliable he will be about preparing for next meeting <holstein> no idea <holstein> i dont think its a hinge point for the meeting <ScottL> what do you think will be important for the next meeting? <holstein> trying to make all the decisions on the site content <holstein> or more <holstein> ScottL: i would like to talk more about revenue as well <holstein> you mentioned that i think <holstein> collect some funds for development <ScottL> holstein, re: website, i think that is what tomwilso was doing, refining the rough site map to parse out only the necessary content into a 2nd draft or list <ScottL> holstein, re: revenue - shoot <ScottL> re: website, i'll work up a list as well just in case tomwilso doesn't come through <holstein> maybe just exactly what it will take to eccept donations <holstein> and/or sell things * ScottL doesn't want to impugn anyone's honor, but really, really want to make this all happen :) <holstein> ScottL: nah, i think its cool <holstein> the email is out <holstein> ScottL: actually <ScottL> holstein, i think we need to first clear that we _can_ sell ubuntu studio stuff <ScottL> get in touch with someone with canonical <holstein> i think it would be fine to say 'who is tom, and respond here please' <ScottL> we might email cory first, he had explored this before and see if he had any contacts we could follow <holstein> ScottL: maybe we can get someone to cover that <holstein> at the next meeting <holstein> an ubuntustudio representative <holstein> to ask connonical <holstein> or whoever <ScottL> then if it clears canonical then i guess we need figure out what and how <holstein> ScottL: cool <holstein> yeah, cory :) <ScottL> do you want to discuss other ubuntu studio topics other than the website at the next meeting? <holstein> i dont really have anything yet <holstein> if these stay regular <holstein> we can work out those workflows <holstein> and whatever else we need <ScottL> if we plan on covering more topics we should probably be better organized <ScottL> either create a wiki page with topics and email it to people <ScottL> or email a list directly to the mailing list <ScottL> personally, i think it would behoove us to do this anyway <holstein> yeah, an egenda maybe <holstein> i dont mind keeping it simple too <holstein> shorter one topic productive meetings <holstein> 'we'll talk about the podcasting workflow and news about whatever' <holstein> we could easily have a 4 hour meeting <holstein> and not get anything done ;) <ScottL> haha, very, very true! <holstein> biab <holstein> i gotta put tension back on my bass strings before the gig... <holstein> OK:) #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-08 <ScottL> TheMuso, any luck on figuring how to get classic as default instead of unity? <TheMuso> ScottL: Haven't looked at all sorry, busy with other things. <ScottL> TheMuso, i understand, i know you have a lot to do with accessibility within unity which i expect was practically non-existant <TheMuso> Pretty much. <ScottL> are you aware of anyone in particular who is familiar with unity that i might bug to try to dig an answer? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-09 <TheMuso> Ask the desktop team when around. <TheMuso> i.e Europe hours. <ScottL> okay, thanks :) <kubotu> thanks :) how are you? <frewsxcv> who's the ubuntustudio lead nowadays? <ScottL> frewsxcv, that is me <ScottL> okay, thanks :) <astraljava> wow, that was weird. <ScottL> what is that astraljava? <ScottL> frewsxcv, did you need something? <astraljava> ScottL: kubotu responding to your line at the first time :) <ScottL> yeah, it's done that a few times over several days, and it seems like it will not repeat itself though <ScottL> abogani, i'm going to start testing the -lowlatency kernel this weekend <ScottL> i was hoping to have done it already with the ubuntustudio alpha image, but we know where that is :( <kubotu> anyone knows what's with the easy stuff first <ScottL> lol, you rock, kubotu! keep on living in the free world <ScottL> abogani, so, i'm building a new box to give away and i'll play with it first, i'll install vanilla ubuntu (even an older image before unity was default perhaps) <ScottL> and install the necessary apps and test the kernel <abogani> ScottL: Ok, Thanks! <ScottL> abogani, once we get an image that works as expected (re: unity) i was going to email and post about the new kernel, explaining that we need testing to facilitate getting it into the archives <scott-work_> TheMuso: after talking with didirock i think have found a way to set the default gdm session <scott-work_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/natty/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst <scott-work_> i'm going to dig around some more because it looks like it might dig a script our to do it <scott-work_> but i'm sure i will need some assistance at some point <frewsxcv> ScottL: no, i was just curious <scott-work_> okay (this is ScottL...at work) <scott-work_> i've talked to didirock some more and tomorrow he is going to walk me through what he did for setting gnome as the default session <TheMuso> scott-work_: nice <scott-work_> TheMuso: don't get too excited :) you should know that i'm not a programmer so i'll probably still ending up needing help <TheMuso> heh <TheMuso> ok #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-13 <scott-work> TheMuso`: would you please ping me at some point in the next day or so, i would like to have some preliminary discussion about the xsession (unity vs gnome) fix after talking with didirocks #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-14 <ScottL> TheMuso`, i believe i understand what we need to do, however didirock suggests we do something that will not interfere with other install (although i don't know why they would want to install over studio) <ScottL> but i don't think it will be necessary because of how we handle a few things <ronj> hi <ronj> Results of my testing of the Natty audio stack: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html <kubotu_> less swollen from my testing <holstein> ronj: COOL <holstein> ScottL: ping? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-15 <ScottL> holstein, pong * ScottL has to go out with family in a minute though <ScottL> my daughter has a singing program tonight <ScottL> abogani, i tried to test the kernel but had unclear results, the new computer i'm using is a bit wonky though <ScottL> i should be able to perform additional tests before christmas with an additional computer i should be recieving <ScottL> TheMuso, later tonight/tomorrow can we talk about the fix for the xsession gnome/unity situation? <ScottL> astraljava, are you moving towards being ready for the backporting? i have documentation almost ready <TheMuso> ScottL: Yeah ok, just ping me when you are ready. <ScottL> TheMuso, it should be in about three hours hence (perhaps more) <TheMuso> ok <ScottL> TheMuso, didirock pointed me at this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst <ScottL> and said to look at the part between lines 10 and 14 <holstein> ScottL: how did the girl do? <holstein> did she have fun? <ScottL> but also said to look at the entire package to make sure it will also work in users install xubuntu or mythbuntu <TheMuso> ScottL: Right, am in the middle of something, give me 5 minutes. <ScottL> holstein, oh, she did fine, but was really, really nervous before the show (it was at the high school with lots and lots of people) <ScottL> TheMuso, no problem, just ping me <TheMuso> ok <holstein> AH :) <holstein> i bet she rocked it like her pops does <holstein> i was going to say about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html <holstein> i was told that this is being looked at because more than JACK is being affected <holstein> more than *just JACK <holstein> not that you were losing any sleep over it ;) * ScottL is checking the email but i think i read it today <holstein> still early <ScottL> holstein, this has also hit the debian multimedia mailing list as well <TheMuso> ScottL: ok I will have a look at that bzr branch <holstein> ScottL: good, i was just trying to decide if i needed to make some noise somewhere <TheMuso> Ok I see what its doing, jst got to find the name for the GNOME session now. :) <ScottL> TheMuso, actually i think it is called 'GNOME' <ScottL> i found it along with a GNOME-fallback or something similar <TheMuso> Actually classic-gnome. <ScottL> oh, that's right, i was looking at the lucid install when i saw that :/ <ScottL> didirock said he changed the name <ScottL> TheMuso, but didirock was telling me to look at the entire package and see what it was doing so this could work with xubuntu, etc <TheMuso> yeah gnome-classic <TheMuso> That package has nothing to do with xubuntu/mythbuntu. <kubotu> can kopete not be better if we need to figure out the right way to do with accessibility within unity which i need coffee <ScottL> yes, i know, but he was saying this if others wanted to install xubuntu, this would work better <TheMuso> I still don't get it. <ScottL> but i don't think we need to do this because we seem to be doing things quite a bit different from what i can tell <TheMuso> That package is for netbook stuff <kubotu> works fine but.. i kinda wanna keep it vanilla.. YOu know what i meaN <TheMuso> ScottL: Exactly, we don't depend on ubuntu-desktop et al. <ScottL> TheMuso, good that you don't understand because i wasn't understanding him either <TheMuso> So in short, our default settings package simply needs to set a gnome-classic session. That should be easy. <kubotu> which she bit into, and then became sick and dizzy. The airline denies thatâAmerican's lawyer told the new metapackage that includes "all crap on the disks, things don't go right/something probably crashes. i think have found a way to set the classic GNOME session to avoid any possible problems. <TheMuso> Ok, we need to get rid of this stupid kubotu bot. <ScottL> yes :) <ScottL> TheMuso, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/10/%23ubuntu-desktop.txt @ 17:00 * TheMuso looks./ <ScottL> this is where didi mentions others installing alongside others <TheMuso> I think he is thinking about us having a separate session to everyone else, but we modify the core settings of the gnome desktop in such a way that this would be difficult. <TheMuso> ...and people haven't complained about what we have done so far, so I only think it would be worth going down this route if people get up in arms about having a separate layout for a different desktop etc. <TheMuso> ...and both xubuntu and mythbuntu use a different session launcher afaik anyway. <ScottL> TheMuso, yes, that was what i was thinking (that we modify things so differently) that we probably didn't need to worry about it or it might simply be incompatible <TheMuso> It could be done for sure, but users aren't complaining about getting back to the old desktop layout once they install ubuntustudio-desktop. <ScottL> yes, and i couldn't fathom that someone would want to install mythbuntu after installing studio ;) <ScottL> okay, i was planning on adding lines 10-14 to our code, does that seem sane? <TheMuso> Yes. <TheMuso> Oh and BTW, you have ops in here, I don't, so you should be able to kick that bot. <ScottL> okay, i'll add it to ubuntustudio-default-settings later this week <ScottL> i tried to kick it but it says i'm not channel operator, maybe i should log in as 'scott-work' :P <TheMuso> You should be able to grant ourself ops with "/msg chanserv op #ubuntustudio-devel ScottL" <TheMuso> let me check again. <ScottL> TheMuso, i'll do it tomorrow at work with scott-work <TheMuso> Oh ok, you explicitly need to use the ScottL_ nick <TheMuso> According to the access list, ScottL_ is what is listed <ScottL> yeah, i borked my logins by adding another login name :/ but i feel like it's too much trouble at this point to fix for not enough gain <TheMuso> fair enough. <ScottL> TheMuso, so, should i add the code, create a debdiff, file a bug, add the patch, subscribe you, and then ping you in IRC ? <TheMuso> SOunds good. <TheMuso> Don't forget there is a bzr branch for default-settings. <ScottL> ubuntustudio-default-settings, yes <TheMuso> ok good. <ScottL> i did play with unity a little during this week and trying to record with hydrogen, ardour, and jack <ScottL> it seemed a little alien doing so to me <ScottL> however, i can see how the desktop using unity would be good for a general public needing a streamlined and linear desktop * holstein is still on the fence <kubotu> no still on the right way to do it... with Provides <ScottL> if mark's goal was to differentiate ubuntu from other linux distributions and position it for mainstream acceptance, then i think he's on the right track <ScottL> look at the way netbooks exploded <ScottL> in an oversimplication, desktops were for geeky type of people, but even grandparents are buying and using netbooks * ScottL admits those are sweeping generalities in the extreme <holstein> im glad that ubuntu is going to be so different <holstein> personally <ScottL> it has been said before, linux greatest strength is it's options <holstein> my only concern is that windows user that is transitioning <holstein> OR osx <ScottL> but linux's greatest weakness is it's options <holstein> unity really looks like only unity <holstein> BUT <ScottL> true <holstein> should we
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