#ubuntu-nz 2011-04-01 <snail> anyone know who is behind http://www.maorilandonline.co.nz/gis/map/search.htm ? it seems to have found it's way onto google's naughty list... <ojwb> does whois help? <ojwb> "the government is restricting the sale of legal highs to those under 18" I just heard on the tv news <ojwb> which confused me briefly <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-03 <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <snail> ibeardslee: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Halting_problem / https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Church%E2%80%93Turing_thesis <ajmitch> been discussing cs theory on the bus? :) <snail> and finally http://csunplugged.org/ <snail> ajmitch: indeed we were <ibeardslee> well I was trying to keep up <snail> the second of those urls isn't very readable <ibeardslee> having not done cs .. and only ever did one uni paper <snail> in both of those cases, I 100% guarantee that you already understand the concepts, if not the language they're expressed in. <snail> what's the linux command for split long command lines, to deal with errors like 'bash: /bin/grep: Argument list too long' ? I've used it before but forgotten the name <ajmitch> xargs? <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> or you run things from find -exec <snail> ajmitch: thanks, yes, that's the program I was thinking of <snail> in the interim I rewrite the command as: find . -name 'log.*' -exec grep ERROR \{\} \; > all.log <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-04 <ojwb> morning <Aginor> morning <snail> just found a bit-flipped-in-transfer-error that wasn't automatically detected / corrected. first one in >10 years. I should probably stop transferring data via USB keydrives <ojwb> hmm, interesting <snail> morning all <ajmitch> morning <hads_> Morning <hads> Discovered last night that it's not a good idea to check out the dev version of XBMC if you want to keep using the release version. Old version doesn't like the fact that it's database has been upgraded out from underneath it. <hads> Several hours of figuring out the schema to manually roll back again since you don't have a backup. <hads> Schema which consists of CREATE TABLE episode (c01, c02, c03, ...) <Atamira> mornin <ibeardsl1e> morning <mwhudson> morning <snail> ibeardslee: RE our discussion yesterday morning; last night i whipped up a pair of slides http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4479425/CompSciQuizes.odp #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-05 <ojwb> Now I know where all the gs are bein' stockpiled <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <snail> morning <hads> Morning <ajmitch> so, shipit.ubuntu.com is being discontinued, and only approved loco teams will be able to get CDs <ibeardslee> I assume you mean the *free* CDs? <ajmitch> yes, it looks like you can still buy CDs from the canonical store <ajmitch> http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551 <Atamira> since i learned how to download it and burn my own iso <Atamira> im not fussed that shipit is going <Atamira> besides, im sure i can get one from someone at one of the lugs <mwhudson> i can pick up a dozen or so at UDS i guess :) <mwhudson> i am very happy shipit is dying from a technical point of view <ajmitch> yes, I've seen comments from certain LP developers about it <ibeardslee> mwhudson: why is that? <mwhudson> ibeardslee: because it accesses the launchpad database directly, basically <mwhudson> but is a separate codebase <mwhudson> so it makes some things harder to change <ajmitch> wasn't there some code that was shared between the two, causing some issues? <mwhudson> oh right yes, it also imports launchpad code <mwhudson> so functions get moved around and then shipit breaks <ajmitch> \o/ <lifeless> this was a self inflicted problem <lifeless> we split the codebases to keep the current version of shipit code private, even though it hasn't been altered substantially since lp was opened <ojwb> morning * ojwb thought shipit had already been retired <ojwb> broadband just a marketing promise 6 years ago? #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-06 <chilts> morning <ojwb> hi chilts <snail> ojwb: broadband still is a marketing promise... <ajmitch> snail: we're more crippled by tiny data caps than by speed <ibeardslee> ++ <ajmitch> having fibre to the home won't really change that <ibeardslee> although it has been a while since I hit my cap <ibeardslee> at least a month ;) <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> I often hit the 20GB cap <ojwb> snail: in NZ perhaps, this was talking about " the most connected parts of the most developed nations" <snail> it might change it the govt forces sane interconnect rules and exempts local traffic. I have a couple of curriculum-relevant terabytes of data I'd like to put in schools... <ojwb> and I can certainly pull data from an in country mirror at a good rate <ibeardslee> I find .au mirrors are regulary quicker than the .nz <ojwb> ibeardslee: bandwidth terrorist! <snail> ibeardslee: because there isn't sane .nz peering? <ajmitch> depends on your ISP & who they're peering with <ibeardslee> but then I just want to throw a big baseball bat at T/C and their peering <ojwb> ah, they basically don't peer do they? <ajmitch> .au doesn't exactly have sane peering either, from what I know <ibeardslee> http://www.figjam.geek.nz/node/40 <ajmitch> it's interesting that you get slower speeds from mirror.ihug.co.nz <ojwb> ping's not necessarily the best tool for such tests <ajmitch> is connecting to australia quicker than to ihug? <ibeardslee> in that case there, no <ojwb> oh, then traceroute <ajmitch> no it's not, I'm more interested in actual download speeds <ajmitch> it's expected that citylink speeds would be bad since it's not going to the wellington server <ojwb> but the same applies really - routers may not treat ICMP stuff the same way as "useful" traffic <ibeardslee> I had used the speed test to compare(ish) as well <ibeardslee> need to find where I saved those results to <ajmitch> wget a large package from each mirror <ibeardslee> hmm true that might be a better solution <mwhudson> always best to measure what you actually care about and not some proxy for it :) <ibeardslee> will redo the ping and mtr tests as well and update that this weekend .. maybe <ojwb> for me, it's 55, 59 and 106 ms avg from traceroute <ojwb> so wellington's quickest, which is how life should be <ajmitch> heh, au.archive.ubuntu.com is a bit slower for me, it goes via an ipv6 tunnel to the US & then to australia <ibeardslee> ojwb: who is your isp? <ojwb> xnet * ajmitch gets ~16ms with mtr to nz.archive.ubuntu.com <ibeardslee> grrr <ojwb> I get 3 wxnz.net hops (which is xnet really) then ape.net.nz, then ubuntu.citilink <ajmitch> it's just the big players like telstraclear & telecom that have bad peering policies <ojwb> and all but a few ms is the first hop, so it doesn't appear it goes to auckland and back <ojwb> they are auckland based though I think <ajmitch> the slowest hop for me is in fx networks from dunedin to wellington, it adds maybe 13ms :) <ojwb> geolocation usually says auckland for me <ojwb> ibeardslee: cheer up! * ojwb just saw your playlist... <ibeardslee> heh <ibeardslee> the other day you would have seen a who bunch of Tom Waits <ibeardslee> often browse the shared music here at work .. find stuff worth listening to * ajmitch might take a big leap & upgrade to maverick this weekend <ajmitch> maybe natty in a few weeks :) <ibeardslee> I have a karmic -> lucid server upgrade to do this weekend <ajmitch> you've got until the 30th before karmic goes EOL * ajmitch still has some lenny->squeeze upgrades to do on servers <ibeardslee> yeah .. last time I tried I had to get RimuHosting to restore my backup image <ajmitch> ouch <ajmitch> what went wrong? <ibeardslee> not sure .. just didn't come back up properly <ibeardslee> I now have regularly nightly dumps of my databases and websites <ibeardslee> don't have the automated rsync to my home server yet <ajmitch> it's useful <ibeardslee> yeah .. just need to get my head around passphraseless keys and host allow/deny stuff * ajmitch might eventually get around to looking at ipv6 for servers <ibeardslee> fairly dependant on hosting providers for that <ajmitch> yeah, we have servers with webdrive, I know that they have ipv6 prefixes announced, so there's a good chance it'll be available <ajmitch> but I still have to ask them :) <ojwb> passphraseless keys aren't terribly complicated... <ojwb> slightly less so than keys with passphrases! <ibeardslee> http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/misc/ipv6 <ajmitch> with passphraseless keys, you generally want to restrict what can be used via authorised_keys <ibeardslee> yeah <ibeardslee> and restrict where they can come from <ajmitch> http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/ looks like it's a race to the bottom with APNIC * ajmitch guesses that it'll be several years yet before a majority of traffic would go via ipv6 in NZ <ibeardslee> we are small enough that we should be able to just get it happening <ibeardslee> but that requires ISPs to talk to and work with each other <ibeardslee> probably would have been able to happen 5-10 years ago <ajmitch> small enough but very dependent on overseas content - though the problem will more likely be in home equipment like crappy DSL modems :) <ibeardslee> I wonder if the UFB project will require IPv6 <ojwb> making it a requirement would be a smart move <ojwb> or a non-dumb move <ibeardslee> and require peering <ajmitch> it'd be nice, when I asked snap about ipv6 on dsl, they said that "There are several boundaries that need to be crossed throughout the chorus network." <ojwb> at least they didn't say "ipv what now?" <ajmitch> heh, they did say there was growing demand for it & that they were looking forward to it happening * ibeardslee is not sure if he can be bothered asking TelstraClear * ajmitch isn't overly hopeful of things changing soon <kiwiLinux> Hey there i'm in a bit of a dilemma, I'd like a copy of Ubuntu desktop, but I don't have net access at home and was wondering if anyone here would be kind enough to burn a copy to dvd and mail it to me, I will pay for the cost of the DVD+ p&p <snail> kiwiLinux: where abouts are you physically? <kiwiLinux> Greymouth <kiwiLinux> I was thinking about shippit, but it takes a while and I'm not if i'll be still at the same address when the DVD arrives <kiwiLinux> *sure <kiwiLinux> Argh, look's like shippit has closed anyway :( <ojwb> yes, we were discussing that earlier... <snail> kiwiLinux: I'd offer to burn you one, but my record for burning media isn't too hot <ojwb> which version are you after? <ojwb> actually, I think I only have a CD image to hand <kiwiLinux> Just Ubuntu-Desktop 10.10 <mwhudson> i'd be happy to burn it i guess but i don't seem to have any blank media <mwhudson> kiwiLinux: 64 or 32 bit? <kiwiLinux> Look's like this library network isn't so slow today, at this rate I'll have a copy in about 2 hours, so don't worry about it, thanks anyway <kiwiLinux> 32 bit though <mwhudson> ok, cool :) <ojwb> not bad for a library! <kiwiLinux> Ya lol <kiwiLinux> 85 kB/s <snail> kiwiLinux: I'm in a library too, you're in greymouth public library? <kiwiLinux> Yup <snail> I work in the library at VUW doing stuff like http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc05Cycl-t1-body1-d3-d26-d1.html <kiwiLinux> Nice, what a coincidence too lol <ajmitch> morning <chilts_> morning <ibeardslee> morning <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> mornin <snail> here's a question, what happens to a standard when the standard's body is insolvent? http://www.lisa.org/ #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-07 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> & such a fine morning it is, it's not even pouring down with rain yet :) <ojwb> morning <ojwb> ajmitch: I can see blue sky! <ojwb> just... <ajmitch> I'm jealous now <ibeardslee> was some blue sky on the way in .. seems to have disappeared now <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> probably can't see it from wellington <ojwb> well, from the city bit <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> oohh..its all blue sky here <Atamira> not a cloud in site <thumper> morning <chilts> morning * chilts cites site in sight <chilts> :) <Atamira> :) <ojwb> chilts: thanks for that slight insight <mwhudson> it's clearing!! <chilts> not clearing here (yet), maybe later they tell me :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-08 <ibeardslee> sigh .. starting to lose track of what accounts are mine and which ones are for work #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-09 <hads> Picked up a Lenovo Ideapad today for my sister. It's neat and now I want to keep it. <lifeless> hads: oops :) <thumper> hads: what model? <hads> thumper: an S12, bought it second hand but it looks brand new. <hads> Currently trying to buy another one off Trademe :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-10 <Bacta> Hai trolls <ikonia> good bye <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning all <Aginor> morning <snail> nice, the US government shut down effects library of congress webservices... <mwhudson> morning <lifeless> snail: whatnow? <snail> lifeless: hopefully a return to consortia based library approaches so the LoC stops being a single source of truth? <lifeless> snail: link? <snail> http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/graphicMaterials/tgm004652 <Atamira> mornin <lifeless> snail: oh right, its because they have a hung parliment * lifeless gets it now <snail> and these are the people who want an internet kill switch... * ajmitch thought they'd resolved their little spats over the budget <lifeless> ajmitch: its never been about budget <lifeless> thats just the fulcrum <ajmitch> right, it's always been about scoring political points, but the budget was the tool for it <snail> ajmitch: it's the weekend there, I imagine that systems will come online first thing Monday morning office hours <ajmitch> it's interesting to see how the different systems of government work #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-11 <chilts> morning <snail> One of these days I'm going to design a system specifically so that it can give "418 I'm a teapot" errors in the right situations... <lifeless> short n stout ? <ojwb> mmm ... stout <ibeardslee> mmmm .. stout <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-12 <timClicks> are there good instructions about setting up an apt-get cache anywhere <timClicks> I don't want to mirror the whole repo <timClicks> but only want to download packages once and then promulgate them to about 4 computers I have at home <mwhudson> timClicks: apt-zeroconf maybe> <mwhudson> ? * timClicks looks <mwhudson> timClicks: there is also apt-cacher-ng <snail> afternoon everyone <hads> timClicks: Check out squid-deb-proxy it's easy and mostly automatic. <hads> In the past I've tried apt-proxy, apt-cacher, apt-cacher-ng and now use squid-deb-proxy which is much more stable <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> oh yeah morning <ibeardslee> trying to track down why my PC restarted at 23:59 :(\ <hads> Morning <hads> ajmitch: Will have more ALIX stock tomorrow or Friday probably. <ajmitch> hads: ok, that was fairly quick <ajmitch> I probably won't have time for it for a few weeks due to various things going on :) <hads> Cool, just wanted to give you a heads up - this time :) <ajmitch> heh, thanks :) <Atamira> mornin <ojwb> morning <snail> morngin all #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-13 <ojwb> are there any public stats for comparative usage for the various ubuntu releases? <mwhudson> i doubt it <mwhudson> there aren't any public stats for the usage of ubuntu at all, afaik and the private ones are pretty much guesses i think :) <ojwb> just package downloads normalised would be handy <ojwb> I'm curious is there's much point backporting packages to hardy now, for example <ajmitch> ojwb: it's a bit hard to get even download stats, given the number of mirrors around <ajmitch> I don't know if the 'official' mirrors supply stats back to canonical or not & even then you can have further caching <ajmitch> but yeah, I doubt there's a lot of point backporting to hardy <ojwb> yeah, though for my purposes "quite a few people" vs "practically nobody" is useful <ojwb> i gave up on dapper some time ago <ajmitch> hardy should be EOL on desktop support soon <ojwb> yes, though this is xapian which is widely used on server <ojwb> +s <ajmitch> how hard is it to backport for hardy as well? <ojwb> it already supports it, but there are a few special cases which are for hardy only now * ojwb wonders if there are PPA stats <ojwb> I can't see an obvious link in the interface <ojwb> be a nice guide for cases like this <ajmitch> http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/tracking-ppa-download-statistics <ojwb> that was quick <ojwb> hmm the linked to blog is frustrating <ojwb> tells you how to manipulate a ppa object <ojwb> but not how to create it <ojwb> which seems to be the hard part... * ojwb bookmarks it anywya <ajmitch> I've managed to get a ppa record & the build records by a bit of hacking around <ojwb> yeah, don't really have time for that this week - off to the UK tomorrow <ajmitch> e.g. lp.people['ajmitch'].getPPAByName(name='ppa') gets the first ppa I have (and probably the only one) <ajmitch> hopefully it's a nice, uneventful flight :) * ojwb wonders what an lp is <ojwb> hopefully <ajmitch> from launchpadlib.launchpad import Launchpad <ajmitch> lp = Launchpad.login_anonymously('staging') <ajmitch> then with the ppa, I cheated & used getPublishedBinaries()[0].getDownloadCount() to get something to show :) <ajmitch> I think there's a better way than looking at wach published binary, but I haven't used this <ojwb> aha <ojwb> from launchpadlib.launchpad import Launchpad - needs more mentions of launchpad I feel <ajmitch> probably <ojwb> hmm, 0 <ojwb> nobody loves your first binary <ajmitch> it's old, probably predates the stats <ajmitch> & I was using it only for build testing in the PPA <ojwb> ah <ojwb> 25! <ajmitch> you're getting somewhere with it? <ojwb> ish <ajmitch> looks like you can get stats per day <ojwb> for b in lp.people['xapian-backports'].getPPAByName(name='ppa').getPublishedBinaries(): print "%d\t%s %s" % (b.getDownloadCount(), b.binary_package_name, b.binary_package_version) <ojwb> doesn't work for the xapian-1.2 ppa for some reason <ajmitch> ojwb: what do you get? <ojwb> oh, it works sometimes <ojwb> other times: TypeError: 'int' object is unsubscriptable <ojwb> i guess that's flakey server or something <ojwb> me speak english good <ojwb> seems to work the second time in quick succession pretty reliably <ojwb> I guess the first may pull data into cache <ojwb> looks like hardy is about 10% of lucid <ojwb> where lucid is 100 ish <ojwb> varies a lot by the subpackage though <ajmitch> might be useful to graph it & see how many of the hardy downloads are recent comared to lucid <ojwb> this was for the 1.2.4 release, which was december I think * mwhudson_ gets 403s from nz.archive.ubuntu.com ... whut <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> morning <hads> Mornin <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> sigh <Atamira> whats the matter ibeardslee ? <ibeardslee> politicians <Atamira> heh. they're all terrible <Atamira> according to forbes, we're the 8th in the world for a corrupt govt...with iceland and finland <ibeardslee> the problems is they can make choices about what the right thing to do is <timClicks> i'm pretty confused that things have come to this <timClicks> especially b/c officials and politicians have been told of the negative consequences <Atamira> oops. cant find the article..i might be wrong on that <timClicks> Atamira, I think you'll find we're the least corrupt country <ibeardslee> it seems (without getting as crass as I really could) that they are starting to line us up to bend over for the TPPA <timClicks> from Transparency International <Atamira> we're mild compared to some of the others in the world thats true <Atamira> we were debating who was the worse <Atamira> the sth africans at work reckon africa is the most corrupt <timClicks> I know that there people within MED & MFAT that are concerned <Atamira> technically its somalia..which i guess is close <timClicks> but, Wellington's very smal <timClicks> and leaks can be career destroying <ibeardslee> not soverignty destroying? <timClicks> this is a trend that has been going on for a long time <timClicks> many trade agreements are taking place internationally <timClicks> actually, WIPO (World IP Organisation) agreements didn't really suit the USA <timClicks> so they created TRIPS <timClicks> I don <ojwb> no, you tim <timClicks> I don't have too much time this morning to go over the whole thing <timClicks> But, in terms of sovereignty.. I wouldn't fight the battle on that front <timClicks> Politicians are advised by economists <timClicks> who are advised by economic models <timClicks> that give way to empirical data <timClicks> Therefore, if the right data can get to the policy advisers, then the legislation will change <timClicks> There's increasing evidence that strict IP laws protect the businesses that know how and are able to utilise those monopolies <timClicks> But, they tend to make a country worse off <timClicks> For example, take copyright <timClicks> the argument goes that we need a 100+ year monopoly in order to incentivise creative works <timClicks> however, I think that confuses the incentive to create a work from the incentive to distribute it <timClicks> distribution costs are extremely low for digital content <timClicks> therefore, they're mostly irrelevant <timClicks> which means, we should only provide the term of the copyright that would incentivise the *creation* of the work <timClicks> that's the hard bit - getting a new novel written <timClicks> once it's written, it's easy to reproduce <timClicks> we need to create a system that does enough to get creators rewarded for the first bit. Once that's done, what matters is that consumers can access a work at the lowest cost possible (which increases consumer surplus, e.g. economic win) <ojwb> and there's a lot of work which is based on out of copyright stuff, so out of copyright likely has economic benefits <ojwb> not for the original author, but for the economy, probably <ojwb> endless sherlock holmes inspired stuff, for example <snail> morning all #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-14 <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> mwhudson: are there fun and games at Canonical? <mwhudson> ibeardslee: some piece of networking kit exploded <ibeardslee> ouch <lifeless> a fairly key bit * ajmitch hopes it wasn't a literal explosion with magic smoke being let out <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> looks like APNIC has run dry on ipv4 blocks for now <Atamira> morning <Atamira> yay. last day of work <ibeardslee> quit .. or holidays? <ibeardslee> or retired after the lotto win? <Atamira> rostered off <Atamira> 4 days on 4 days off <ibeardslee> ahh right <Atamira> and i wish re the lotto win <Atamira> im not that lucky <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> ibeardslee: I take it you didn't win, and so aren't able to shout us all a trip to UDS? <ibeardslee> sorry ajmitch <ajmitch> aw <ibeardslee> I'm here in Dubai <ibeardslee> nice room <ibeardslee> well floor <ajmitch> penthouse? <ibeardslee> yeap <ibeardslee> the butler is bringing the gold ferrari to the front, going for a drive <ibeardslee> back later <ibeardslee> .. <ajmitch> at this rate, you'll be collecting the dole next week :) <ibeardslee> heh <Atamira> what happened to the gold lambo? <ibeardslee> gave it away .. too ostentatious <Atamira> ahh..how thoughtful of you <ibeardslee> well that's just how I am .. now, where is that caviar? * ajmitch shouldn't get distracted by reading ubuntu-devel <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> and a lovely one it here here too (warning: may be a lie) <thumper> mwhudson: :-) <thumper> mwhudson: may be similar to here * thumper has a new job \\o/ <mwhudson> how did i managed to say "here here" instead of "is here" <thumper> mwhudson: if it makes you feel any better, I read it as "is here" <mwhudson> thumper: have you fixed unity yet!! <ajmitch> thumper: new job? <thumper> mwhudson: not yet, but I am now officially moving to the DX team <mwhudson> my current unity entertainment is that the unit widgets are appearing below the windows <ajmitch> thumper: that's a bit of a change <thumper> what unit widgets? <thumper> ajmitch: yeah... it'll be interesting <mwhudson> thumper: the launcher, that thing that appears when you press super <thumper> mwhudson: that's pretty odd <mwhudson> thumper: not going to argue with that <ajmitch> thumper: I'll be sure to pass on all my unity complaints to you then :) <thumper> heh, bug reports preferred <thumper> I start with DX in two weeks <thumper> I get to fix up branch stacking first <mwhudson> what's the name for the thing that appears when you press super? <ajmitch> so you'll get to go to the various DX sessions at UDS :) <thumper> the launcher * thumper isn't at UDS <thumper> but I will be at the DX sprint the week before <ajmitch> that's a shame <thumper> it would have been two weeks away from the girls <thumper> home life cals <thumper> calls <ajmitch> fair enough, and I suppose it falls just around school holidays as well? <thumper> just after <ajmitch> do you know what area you'll end up working on? <thumper> unity <ajmitch> nice * thumper wanders into the kitchen to make a coffee :) <ajmitch> fwiw, I started on a unity lens to search LP :) <thumper> ajmitch: I don't really know much about lenses yet <thumper> in fact I had to ask njpatel what they were last night :) <ajmitch> they appear to be relatively straightforward <ajmitch> I blame jcastro for getting me interested in it though <ibeardslee> speaking of unity .. when you click on the applications .. you get recently used, installed and available for installation (unsure of the exact working, no working unity about atm) <ibeardslee> is there a way to tell it not to show stuff that isn't installed? * ajmitch doesn't know the answer to that one <ibeardslee> oh beta 2 <ajmitch> thankfully they fixed the large memory leak that was causing compiz to eat all my RAM :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-17 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning * thumper shivers <thumper> I can see snow on the hill <ajmitch> thumper: time to move to the northern hemisphere for 5-6 months <thumper> heh <thumper> if I was all alone, I'd probably consider that <ajmitch> walking down to the bus this morning, I was rather tempted :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-18 <Aginor> yuck, snow <Aginor> south island? <thumper> aye <ajmitch> sigh, lp doesn't make it easy to search all bugs via the api. understandable but annoying <lifeless> ajmitch: how so ? <ajmitch> lifeless: searchTasks() is only available on a bug target, from what I can see <lifeless> ajmitch: you might try launchpad.bugs.searchTasks <lifeless> if that doesn't work its an artifact of the api autogeneration not a deliberate limitation <ajmitch> yeah I'd tried it <ajmitch> AttributeError: 'BugSet' object has no attribute 'searchTasks' <ajmitch> lifeless: seems to be a limitation, I found the bug to 'me too' <mwhudson> what's a good e-reader type thing for android? <mwhudson> that works with a nz phone <mwhudson> oh kindle is available <Atamira> what one is good for an iphone clone <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <olly> evening #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-19 <ibeardslee> umm afternoon <Atamira> what a beautiful day <Atamira> absolutely beautiful <Atamira> a tad chilly ..but still beautiful <ibeardslee> it is nice out there, sadly I'm inside ripping up icky carpet off the concrete floor <ibeardslee> rot in the walls will be ignored for now, at least until I have the funds (or the bank does) to deal to the exterior as well <Atamira> mildew sucks <Atamira> tho, icky carpet is worse <ibeardslee> already spent about $40k doing 1/2 the house <ibeardslee> 3/4 of the raming in one wall was replaced <ibeardslee> s/raming/framing/ <ajmitch> sounds expensive <ajmitch> the house is reasonably old, or did it just rot from the inside out? <ibeardslee> yeah the other side of the house has the plumbing got the kitchen and the upstiars bathroom <ibeardslee> 80's <ajmitch> bit of a worry that you're having to replace framing <ibeardslee> the sheets of hardiplank don't seem to have been joined properly and have moved over the years <ibeardslee> water has been driven in through the small cracks * ajmitch hopes it's been sealed properly this time :) <ibeardslee> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ibeardslee/936-429-9875/in/set-72157605601881033 <ibeardslee> ajmitch: the walls that have been done, yes <mwhudson> ibeardslee: ugh, bad luck on that <ibeardslee> yeah <mwhudson> whereabouts are you? <ibeardslee> j'ville <mwhudson> hopefully not completely exposed to the wind then i guess? <ibeardslee> exposed enough that I blame the wind for moving the house enough for cracks to appear and then driving the water in <hads> That sounds annoying. <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning all #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-20 <chilts> morning (just) <snail> morning <Atamira> morena <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-22 <ibeardslee> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-24 <Atamira> mornin <fennng> æ© #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-25 <chilts> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-26 <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning all <snail> nice, looks like the apache lucene / solr community is having a meltdown. anyone following that? <ajmitch> nope, sounds entertaining though <snail> entertaining if it weren't for the fact that pretty much 1/2 the systems I care about include solr / lucene. <snail> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-2272?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13025379 <snail> people revertingeach others commits rather than discuss things like adults... <ajmitch> messy <ajmitch> that looks like a lot of hot air in a short amount of time <ajmitch> they should use debian's old way of calming flamewars - have the mail queue get so large trying to send out all the messages that it'd take an hour or more for messages to get through <snail> i suspect that a fork is in the offing, which is the real solution. <ajmitch> forks can potentiially be pretty detrimental <snail> in the short term yes, but they can also be pretty good, look at the gcc one, for example <ajmitch> there are other cases where a project has forked & both the original & the fork have effectively died out <ajmitch> but that could just be a sign of a sick project to start with <Atamira> mornin <hads> Ther's always some community or other having a meltdown <ajmitch> if you could just get rid of the people, it'd all go much smoother <hads> Indeed #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-27 <thumper> afternoon <Atamira> mornin all <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-28 <snail> moring * Atamira is waiting for the rain to stop <Atamira> bet it will be fine the minute i go back to work <ajmitch> rain? what rain? :) <Atamira> its rain here <Atamira> in akld <snail> morning all <ajmitch> morning <lifeless> anyone know anyone at citylink? they seem to have failed to mirror natty quite spectacularly <lifeless> I'm going to see if I can get them pulled from the nirror rotation in the interim <ajmitch> lifeless: which mirror does citylink have? <lifeless> nz.a.u.c <lifeless> host nz.archive.ubuntu.com <lifeless> nz.archive.ubuntu.com is an alias for ubuntu.citylink.co.nz. <lifeless> ubuntu.citylink.co.nz has address 936-429-9875 <ajmitch> http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/natty/ looks ok for me <lifeless> 08:22 < lifeless> $ wget --no-cache http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/nspr/libnspr4-0d_4.8.7-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb <lifeless> 08:22 < lifeless> 2011-04-29 08:20:48 ERROR 404: Not Found. <lifeless> 08:22 < lifeless> wget --no-cache http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/nspr/libnspr4-0d_4.8.7-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb <lifeless> 08:22 < lifeless> Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK <lifeless> 404s on that and a few other files for a maverick->natty upgrade <hads> I noticed that just now actually <lifeless> ajmitch: also they do magic anycast stuff <ajmitch> yeah, split between SF & wellington depending on how badly your ISP peers <ajmitch> http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/nspr/ is just empty <ajmitch> a.u.c has those files there, dated from january, so it's choked somehow <hads> :%s/nz/nz2/ <lifeless> hads: not really an answer for consumers :) <lifeless> #ubuntu-mirrors has chatter on this now <lifeless> ok, disabled and alexanderlisa@example.com now <ajmitch> that could be a little slow today <lifeless> ajmitch: slow and working <ajmitch> it couldn't point at the same mirror as nz2? <lifeless> 08:42 < lamont> lifeless: dns updated (dropped it, since we'd rather have the nz operator grumble about 'where'd the traffic go" than the nz2 operator scream about the wave that hit him) <ajmitch> heh, ok <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> they have done that before <ibeardslee> point nz.a.u.c to nz2.a.u.c <ajmitch> but probably not on release day <ibeardslee> hmm yeah * ibeardslee checks ubuntu.catalyst.net.nz <ibeardslee> Release 27-Apr-2011 00:17 <ibeardslee> same as nz2 <ajmitch> is that mirror not listed in the official list? <ibeardslee> the catalyst one? no <lifeless> so the citylink issue wasn't a missing release file <lifeless> it was (minimally, maybe more) a dozen files from jan just awol <ibeardslee> although catalyst being an official mirror for the kernel .. it is something I might bring up with the powers that be to consider what might happen to some of our traffic <ibeardslee> citylink is still behind though <ibeardslee> about 12 hours <ibeardslee> from nz2 <ibeardslee> hmm n/m being redirected to a.u.c already <ibeardslee> sigh <lifeless> ibeardslee: citylink was 3+ months behind on some files <lifeless> ibeardslee: so it got taken out of rotation <ibeardslee> grrrr * ibeardslee adjusts his sources.list .. probably on a more permanent basis <lifeless> ibeardslee: I'm going to try and track down an ihug person and ask if they can handle release day <lifeless> if so, will get it pointed at them <hads> Natty upgrade in 52 minutes on this laptop, not too shabby <lifeless> ibeardslee: nz.a.u.c. should always work is the problem - but our mirror prober fails on citylink because of their hidden nz-only host + anycast <ibeardslee> I'll have a talk to catalyst when I am back at work about it <lifeless> ibeardslee: cool <lifeless> don't suppose anyone here knows anyone (from either citylink or ihug)'s irc handle + channel ? <ibeardslee> see if ubuntu.catalyst.net.nz could be nz.a.u.c .. although they may want to restrict international traffic <hads> No idea who you'd contact at vodafone <ibeardslee> lifeless: sorry no <hads> The ihug guy used to hang out here <hads> Not for ages though <lifeless> its fine to throttle international traffic; the mirror prober has to be allowed unfettered access (or you'll be taken out of rotation :P) <ibeardslee> my big gripe is that there are no TelstraClear peered nz archives <snail> there used to be a vuw mirror didn't there? anyone recall url? <lifeless> ibeardslee: I'm not surprised, telstra are...interesting in .au in ISP circles <ibeardslee> lifeless: the origins of TelstraClear in NZ used to be awesome .. Paradise, Saturn <lifeless> yeah <lifeless> hard to tell how much remains and how much business dictates from telstra have impacted <Atamira> mornin <lifeless> my dads on telstraclear and has heinous trouble with dns lookups going awry, the $$$#$R%#$ intercepting cache etc <lifeless> I would /so/ pay more to get real internet. <ibeardslee> everytime T/C mention that the UFB isn't needed, I tell them it is because they don't peer <lifeless> UFB ? <hads> That new scrollbar widget is annoying to position the pointer on. <ajmitch> now if only open peering were a requirement of UFB <ibeardslee> ultra fast broadband project <lifeless> oh <ibeardslee> ajmitch: I agree on that one <ibeardslee> it used to be bloody good for that <lifeless> so its not; we need the new international cable first - or is that the same thing? [no browser atm, can't google] <hads> You have to go all the way to the right of the screen to activate it and then left a few pixels to actually use it. <ibeardslee> lifeless .. I sort of disagree <ajmitch> lifeless: ufb is just the fibre to the home part <hads> Nothing to do with International bandwidth <hads> (which will still be crap) <ibeardslee> with decent peering .. more services will able to be hosted in NZ <ajmitch> rather than having everyone on a nice shiny fast fibre network & having packets go to australia or the US for content in NZ? <hads> And we can still pay the same for bandwidth to them :) <lifeless> ibeardslee: what sort of services are you thinking of? <lifeless> well, going international for local content is batshit itself <lifeless> but - for instance, - WoW is never going to host a cluster here <ibeardslee> eg au.archive.ubuntu.com is faster(ish) for me than nz.archive.ubuntu.com <lifeless> youtubes <lifeless> facebook etc <lifeless> their primary content is so dynamic, they can and do use a cdn for handling hotspots <lifeless> skype / voip of any sort <ibeardslee> hmm yeah <hads> What about VoIP? <ibeardslee> but I think they are decent enough <lifeless> ibeardslee: 7pm at night they are messed up <ibeardslee> local content available local (not via the US) is critical <lifeless> hads: international voip calls get messed up if you suffer more than a few % packet loss <ajmitch> hopefully the project won't get too bogged down with political wrangling <lifeless> hads: last two weeks I haven't been able to call internationally in the early evening reliably <lifeless> ibeardslee: I agree that that is a good thing - but: <ibeardslee> then (in an ideal world) we can get a local region dependant streaming etc <hads> lifeless: That would depend on the VoIP providers upstream <lifeless> hads: huh no, its udp all the way <ibeardslee> although in a more ideal worl region wouldn't matter <ibeardslee> world <lifeless> hads: setup is centralised, traffic flow is point to point <hads> No <hads> lifeless: Use a local provider with decent interconnects and then the traffic is their concern, all you need to worry about it your path to them. <ibeardslee> ajmitch: it will :( <lifeless> hads: they still need available international capacity <hads> Traffic flow is not usually point to point with SIP/RTP, it can be but more than often it's not. <lifeless> hads: depends on the exchange IIRC <lifeless> hads: anyhow the point is that if traffic for me is poor, eithe rI'm shaped (and undeclared so - the 'what your adsl sync as is what you get is a lie') <ibeardslee> well me has to take some rubbish to the tip and then work out if the budget can handle a nook colour <ibeardslee> back later <lifeless> hads: or there is a shortage of intl capacity <hads> 99.9% of the time your media is going to go through the service provider, if it didn't you would have all sorts of one way audio issues with RTP not getting through firewalls and NAT. <ajmitch> there are so many points in the network where capacity can be an issue <hads> Yup <ajmitch> international being the big one <lifeless> hads: of course, thats why your nat box needs a sip proxy <lifeless> <- not entirely clueless; ran a distributed asterisk setup in .au for a while <hads> <- does VoIP all day <lifeless> hads: nice <lifeless> hads: we kinda got stuck on one protocol <lifeless> hads: my point is that there are many, and when there *is* scarcity it drives prices and things like shaping, intercepting proxies etc <lifeless> which the 'net is not designed to have or to handle <hads> Agreed <lifeless> peering is a commercial design driven by actual interconnects and costs <lifeless> if telstraclear aren't peering its because they make more money not peering <hads> This scrollbar thing isn't going to bug me <lifeless> that may be fixable by changing the business environment - e.g. the rules under which peering happens <lifeless> or by changing the resources available <lifeless> I guess my larger point is that to fix this just saying it must be so won't work - if the govt tried, for instance, they would get impassioned pleas about how its unrelated, unfair etc <lifeless> but if the drivers of not-peering can be determined, attack the root cause #ubuntu-nz 2011-04-29 <lifeless> ibeardslee: first step for catalyst would be registering on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors <chilts> is it still morning, if so ... morning <ajmitch> chilts: apparantly <ibeardslee> /away/// <ibeardslee> gah lag <ibeardslee> lifeless: would need to check if we considered it something that should be publicly advertised <lifeless> ibeardslee: if you wanted to be nz.a.u.c you /have/ to be registered there <lifeless> its what drives all thhe health checks of mirrors <ibeardslee> understood <ibeardslee> currently just an idea that is pondering through my head, it'll need approval from higher up if it is something that we do <lifeless> of course <hads> I didn't realise UC had a mirror <lifeless> ok <lifeless> how do I get flashplugin-installer to install the *64 bit* plugin <lifeless> hyou know, the one that works <ibeardslee> .. just does .. doesn't it? <ibeardslee> my remote upgradqe to Natty of my work PC didn't go as planned <ibeardslee> seems the LDAP auth died with the upgrade <ibeardslee> so I can't login again until Monday morning .. which in itself is not that bad <lifeless> Depends: nspluginwrapper (>= 156.14.161.142-2ubuntu1), ia32-libs (>= 2.2ubuntu18), debconf | debconf-2.0, wget, fontconfig <lifeless> its 32 bit >< <ibeardslee> that's what mine says .. seems to work fine <ibeardslee> well that ia32-libs is a dependancy <lifeless> right <lifeless> ok, yours working is good data <lifeless> are you on 64-bit build? <ibeardslee> my PC is, that what I did the 'apt-cache show' on * ibeardslee is sitting at his 32bit HP Mini atm <ibeardslee> and I can't get to my work PC because of broken LDAP auth on the PC <ibeardslee> but that was 64bit and I'm certain that it needed the ia32-libs and flash worked in the browsers <lifeless> ibeardslee: ok, but just to salve my paranoia - the PC that you did apt-cache show on, has *its* flash working in youtube etc? <ibeardslee> lifeless: yes <ibeardslee> firefox and chromium <ibeardslee> natty .. although, not checked after today's updates <lifeless> kk, thanks #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-01 <ibeardslee> morning <lifeless> indeed <snail> mÅrena koutou <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> hmm, must remember to remove the phone from the USB before rebooting <snail> your phone is a book disk? <ibeardslee> snail: no it's not a boot disk .. but it must have been seeing something that was halting the boot process <snail> i hope this wasn't a remote boot? <ibeardslee> nah local disk boot <ibeardslee> one of the guys here had some interesting problems after upgrading with his phone charging on USB <ajmitch> ibeardslee: I frequently had problems if I left my external hard drive plugged in <ajmitch> seems that the device numbering is indeterminate, so I'd get grub trying to load a kernel off an ntfs filesystem <ibeardslee> that's what the uuid rather the sda1 numbering was supposed to fix right? <snail> ibeardslee: that was the theory <ajmitch> ibeardslee: right, I was using grub 1.x still <ajmitch> so it had root=(hd1,0), and that sort of thing still in the grub configuration <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <kcj> Morning. <chilts> morning :) <ojwb> morning <kcj> Stupid daylight saving. I'm hungry for lunch now. <ibeardslee> damn it .. I was doing well until then! <kcj> lol <kcj> I wish we didn't have daylight savings. <kcj> It doesn't save anything. <kcj> It's more trouble than it's worth. <snail> interesting to see this in the mass press http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6677304/Why-have-just-one-operating-system <mwhudson> ooh, i can use my laptop display and an external monitor in precise! <ibeardslee> you couldn't get it to happen with the earlier versions? <mwhudson> not sensibly <mwhudson> i may not have tried with oneiric #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-02 <ibeardslee> morning <snail> ibeardslee: as promised: http://www.etv.org.nz/ <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <G> morning kiwis <Atamira> good morning all <kcj> Morning. <ojwb> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-03 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch_> morning * ajmitch_ should know by now not to read ubuntu-devel-discuss in the morning <ibeardslee> ajmitch: 'fun' ? <ajmitch> not nearly as much fun as debian-devel :) <ajmitch> thankfully it was mostly relevant stuff on the ubuntu list abou tfixing things before precise release <G> morning <mwhudson> morning <hads> morning <kcj> morning <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-04 <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> mirning <ibeardslee> morning <karora> moaning <ibeardslee> hey karora .. long time <karora> Yeah. RL is being a PITA this year. <snail> mÅrena <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <kcj> Morning <thumper> morning <ojwb> morning <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-05 <ojwb> afternoon <mwhudson> so i have some strange compiz zooming effect on one of my displays <ajmitch> mwhudson: how strange? <mwhudson> ajmitch: well <mwhudson> it's zoomed in by about 10% <ajmitch> hit super-r recently? <ajmitch> if so, go to an empty workspace & hit it again <mwhudson> and moving the mouse in that display pans around the zoomed in view <mwhudson> ajmitch: ah, that did it <mwhudson> what does that do? <ajmitch> it's a compiz plugin that zooms everything within a window * ajmitch is just pulling up the bug # <mwhudson> and i managed to hit it on the root window or something? <ajmitch> more likely on a maximised window <mwhudson> ah yes <mwhudson> yeah, that's exactly what it was <ajmitch> doing it on the root window resets the zoom to normal <mwhudson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/220939 <ajmitch> also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz-plugins-main/+bug/953278 <mwhudson> except that one is fix released <ajmitch> fix released as of yesterday <mwhudson> ah nice <mwhudson> ajmitch: thanks :) * ajmitch saw it mentioned on ubuntu-devel-discuss a day or two ago <ojwb> morning <kcj> Morning. #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-06 <ibeardslee> \j #catalyst-academy <ibeardslee> sigh <ibeardslee> morning <kcj> Morning. <ojwb> morning <ibeardslee> a tad disappointed at the weather. Had planned a day for upgrading personal servers to Precise <ibeardslee> but with the yellow ball of fire in the sky .. it would seem such a waste of it * ibeardslee wanders away to enjoy it ;) <kcj> Heh, complaining about good weather. <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-08 <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <kcj> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-09 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <ojwb> morning <hads> morning <thumper> morning <kcj> Morning. #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-10 <thumper> omg... setting up a new family PC <thumper> has windows 7 on it <thumper> already rebooted 3 times <thumper> and I've not even installed the first bit of software * thumper will make it dual boot with precise <ajmitch> thumper: and then you'll have to install updates for each piece of software you install * ojwb wonders if ajmitch is talking about ubuntu or windows 7 there <ajmitch> both, especially if you install ubuntu from a 12.04 beta 2 ISO <ojwb> ah <ojwb> it seems maverick dies today <ajmitch> yay * ajmitch upgraded his desktop at home to precise in the weekend <ajmitch> work desktop still runs lucid * ibeardslee shudders to think what people have floating around here <ojwb> the update tool does at least prompt you * ajmitch doesn't use the update tool <ojwb> unless you disable that <ibeardslee> it does .. but sometimes those being prompted go 'ahh dunno' <ajmitch> so I get all sorts of interesting upgrade bugs to file & fix <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> so who are Blue Systems? <ajmitch> morning <snail> mÅrena koutou <Atamira> mornin <ojwb> morning <chilts> morning <snail> how was your break? <chilts> good, lovely weather <chilts> yours? <snail> great <snail> chilts: the web page I was talking to your wife about is http://helicon.vuw.ac.nz/menu (not sure if you can access that without a password from off campus) the software is http://www.oclc.org/ezproxy/ <chilts> yeah, can't get into the first link, but looking at the 2nd now <snail> can you get to http://helicon.vuw.ac.nz.helicon.vuw.ac.nz/menu ? <chilts> it redirects me to https://login.helicon.vuw.ac.nz/login #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-11 <ojwb> ? * ojwb wonders if he lost some irc traffic there <chilts> ojwb: I bumped into snail on the ferry last Thursday, so kinda continuing that conversation :) <chilts> you lost irl traffic, not irc traffic :D <snail> ojwb: it turns out that chilts's other half and I have kind-of related jobs * ojwb will have to step up his stalking <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> mmmm 140 updates <chilts> morning <chilts> is that like the new Twitter, only allows 140 updates at any one time? <ibeardslee> precise updates <chilts> in which case, 140 probably isn't too bad :) <chilts> maybe <chilts> dunno * ibeardslee is updating each morning atm * ajmitch doesn't update nearly as often <hads> I wonder if PTP/MTP works better in precise. I forgot to check that. <hads> s/better/for file transfers/ <thumper> morning <hads> No is the answer to that. <hads> (not to you, thumper) <thumper> haha <hads> morning <G> hah, morning folks :) <hads> I knew buying an Android phone with no SD card was going to be painful. I did it anyway. <ojwb> morning <kcj> Morning. <ajmitch> hads: what's the mtp issue? <hads> No idea. It doesn't work? :) <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> I just saw a new version of libmtp land in the review queue a few minutes ago, maybe it'll fix some problems? :) <hads> Neat, will wait and see. At the moment the device is recognised, a popup show up asking what to do. Open folder and it takes ~30 seconds to show directory structure. <hads> Try to create a folder or something and get an "Unspecified Error" <ajmitch> not so useful #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-12 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <hads> morning <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-13 <kcj> Afternoon. <ojwb> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> it seems US airport security has a new test - say your name without looking at your passport <ojwb> i guess it'll catch terrorists with a poor memory #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-15 <ibeardslee> morning <snail> mÅrena koutou <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <hads> morning <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning <ojwb> morning <snail> I've just upgraded to 11.4 after a restart I now need 'ifdown --all; ifup --all' how do i fix that? <ojwb> do you mean 12.4? <ojwb> not that I know the answer for that either... <snail> no. <snail> i've got two more upgrades to go... <ojwb> ah <ojwb> hmm, i upgraded some servers from 10.04 to 11.10 and didn't hit that <ojwb> in 3 steps I mean <ojwb> which was good as I was ssh-ing to them <ojwb> i'd be tempted to just continue upgrading and see if it is fixed by the next one <ojwb> at least if you have physical access easily <snail> what's the command for doing it all at once? <ojwb> do-release-upgrade <ojwb> I think I used that rather than apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade #ubuntu-nz 2012-04-16 <ibeardslee> yeah the version upgrade via apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade <ibeardslee> is just asking for trouble <snail> trying that now <mwhudson> the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is not what one thinks it would be at first <mwhudson> or at least, it isn't what _I_ thought it would be
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