#ubuntu-nz 2011-08-01 <ojwb> ibeardslee: I can assure HP that I won't <ojwb> but I doubt I'd buy it at all <ojwb> snail: xxd is good for a quick peer from the command line <ojwb> or if it's mostly text with a few control characters: cat -vet <ojwb> which still has to be my favourite option combination <chilts> I never knew about those, but likely 'coz I've never needed them <ojwb> lucky you <chilts> it seems -e and -t imply -v (but that would screw up your option combination) <chilts> :) <ojwb> yes, it is slightly redundant <chilts> but definitely easier to remember <hads> ibeardslee: When was your birthday? <DoeNietWil> Hello Ubuntu user, I came to this irc to ask you a question. We are trying to release a new version of OpenTeacher, and because it is a tool that is very language specific I was wondering if any of you would like to take a couple of minutes and translate it. It really isn't that much work but it would help us a lot. https://translations.launchpad.net/openteacher <DoeNietWil> if you have questions about the project or the translation please go to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=openteacher <snail> mÅrena koutou <snail> DoeNietWil: can i suggest that when you SPAM you use a url that takes us to a page that actually says what the project does? because that url certainly doesn't! <DoeNietWil> it wasn't meant to be spam, more like asking for help <DoeNietWil> but if you want openteacher.org has good information about it <snail> DoeNietWil: are you involved in openteacher? <DoeNietWil> only helping them i'm not a dev myself <snail> DoeNietWil: does it support TEI / freedict? <ibeardslee> morning <DoeNietWil> it could easily if you file a blueprint <ibeardslee> hads: Monday last week <DoeNietWil> the devs are very open to the needs of people <snail> DoeNietWil: the devs have some interesting attitudes. i wish them luck. <DoeNietWil> you mean they are rude? <snail> DoeNietWil: in the geek world rudeness is unfortunately too common to count as interesting <DoeNietWil> i think they really don't mean to be rude, maybe because of the language gaps there is some sort of miscommunication? <DoeNietWil> I've experienced that they were infact very kind people to me, i first thought it was a dictionary but they later explained why it wasn't <DoeNietWil> snail could you explain me what went wrong? <snail> DoeNietWil: I'm not going to engage in he-said she-said, since that's unlikely to be constructive; i was a little surprised that you weren't in the channel though, given that you're promoting it. <DoeNietWil> from what i read from the logs it seems as if you miscommunicated <ajmitch> morning <DoeNietWil> i suggest you read it slowly and try to understand what they mean, i see no way that they have an intention to be rude to you <DoeNietWil> snail <snail> DoeNietWil: they weren't rude to me... <DoeNietWil> then what is this attitude you speak off? <snail> DoeNietWil: I think my last comment says all that needs be said <DoeNietWil> well, you could always make a blueprint, they have multiple devs and chances are others WILL see the importance <ajmitch> that was interesting * ibeardslee is a fraction disappointed, was wondering if I would hear snail explode from here <ajmitch> it seems like we only got half the conversation though <snail> my best guess is that a handful of school kids working on a software project. their use case appears to be 'learn the numbers from 1 to 10 in any language.' <snail> the appear to have no idea how dictionaries or linguistics might relate to this <snail> or that it might have been done before <snail> in their favour, they were polite and helpful and not obviously Norwegian mass-murderers <snail> i shouldn't have said that <snail> I'm hoping that fairfax's current issues aren't related to anyone we know? <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> not that I am aware of <ajmitch> a bit embarassing for a newspaper <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-02 <hads> ibeardslee: Happy birthday :) <chilts> again? <ibeardslee> last week, hads is catching up ;) <elky> Nobody told you that after certain milestones you age 52 times faster? <ajmitch> usually the milestones that end in a 0 <Atamira> its all downhill from 21 <Atamira> you seem to age faster after that <ibeardslee> morning <snail> mÅrena koutou <thumper> morning <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <hads> Woke up to a legal document for reading, painful. #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-03 <chilts> damn, I missed 'morning' <ibeardslee> hads: that looks like 'fun' <ibeardslee> just gotta love "Article 7" <hads> ibeardslee: Yeah, I liked Article 3.1 most myself, I get to pay for them to have the domain. * ojwb suspects he may be glad not to be sharing the context here <hads> ojwb: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61436811/Gigaset <ojwb> lovely <ajmitch> hads: exciting stuff * ojwb discovers you aren't supposed to send dry ice by NZ post <hads> heh <hads> I guess yiu could suffocate the postie in their van. <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> mÅrena <Atamira> morena <chilts> morning <ojwb> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-04 <snail> http://ubuntu-nz.org/ doesn't seem like the most useful url to have in the title <chilts> snail: slow day? <ajmitch> oh fun * ajmitch should find out how to fix that <snail> something like that <chilts> :) <ojwb> it seems to pretty well summarise us I think <snail> apparently we have a contract linux admin starting up here shortly anyone know who it is? <ajmitch> 'here' being? <ibeardslee> I thought that had already been linked to the wiki page <ajmitch> ibeardslee: used to be * ojwb wonders why it seemed a good idea to rename the text boot config on the CD from text.cfg to txt.cfg between lucid and natty <ojwb> I guess that extra character can be put to better use somewhere <ibeardslee> txt spek? <ajmitch> following the fine traditions of UNIX? <ojwb> ajmitch: randomly renaming stuff? <snail> ajmitch: 'here' being Victoria University of Wellington <ajmitch> ojwb: a strong aversion to vowels <snail> for april 1 we should do a distro where all executable files' names are mime-style base64 encoded <snail> or would anyone notice? <chilts> heh <ojwb> ajmitch: I'm reminded of that Ken Thompson quote: http://books.google.com/books?id=poFQAAAAMAAJ&q=%22spell+creat+with+an+e%22&dq=%22spell+creat+with+an+e%22 <chilts> snail: one time in Catalyst people changed their nicks to be the first 8 chars of their GPG key ... it was quite painful trying to figure out who was who <chilts> snail: http://she.geek.nz/archives/394-more-crazy-times-in-catalyst.html <ajmitch> who doesn't know their GPG ID? <ojwb> 3bad2b07 <chilts> 3bad!!! <chilts> hmm, I need to copy it from my old computer to this one <ibeardslee> I have my business card taped to my monitor <chilts> because you can't remember your name or who you work for? <ibeardslee> .. .. .. .. 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 .. 2 1 0 .. for my gpg id <ajmitch> you only need to know the last 8 characters <ibeardslee> maybe I should use it as my password for a while .. help me remember <ajmitch> a rather public password <ibeardslee> only if you know it is being used as a password <ibeardslee> err <ajmitch> noone would ever know... <ibeardslee> well .. hopefully I would <ojwb> just make sure not to mention the idea in a public forum <ojwb> especially not one which is logged <ibeardslee> should be all good if I delete my logs right? <ojwb> hmm, I think our fuse box just went clunk and is now buzzing <ojwb> probably an enormous bee flew into it <chilts> heh, this conversation is too much <chilts> best fun I've had on a Thursday afternoon ... since like 4 EVA <chilts> :) <ajmitch> that's a bit of a worry <ojwb> i phoned the electricity company but I'm not the account holder * ojwb sighs <chilts> that sucks <ojwb> yeah, though I understand <ojwb> at least fault reports skip the hold queue <ojwb> jenny's rung and they'll send someone round in 4-6 hours <ojwb> so I guess that's decided about python UG for me <snail> there was a powercut in wellington a few weeks ago that effected the uni. a unit had a shiny new building with a shiny new generator to keep the wheels rolling if the power should go off. the generator supplied ~500 volts for the first 5 seconds. some of the gear didn't like that. <snail> on the plus side, they're all getting shiny new computers now... <chilts> ;D <ibeardslee> heh <ibeardslee> no UPS? <ojwb> which reminds me, are power spikes, etc a big problem in NZ? <ojwb> i've notice in the electrical retailers they push surge filters quite hard <ojwb> but I've also noticed the prices they charge for them are silly, so I wonder if that's just because they can make more on those than on the actual equipment <ibeardslee> they do that because they can also sell extended warranties that are only valid if they have a surge protector <ajmitch> I think the power grid is fairly stable, but I've only lived down south, not in those dodgy areas like wellington <snail> I've twice lost equipment to lightning strikes in wellington residential/domestic buildings; in both cases the strikes were within 100 m of the equipment * ojwb makes a note not to move near snail <snail> In hamilton I had a run of powercuts caused by boy-racers hitting power poles / transformers, but none of those fried hardware <snail> heh * ibeardslee is more than 100m away <snail> Does someone have recommendations of surge filters ? <ojwb> snail: there's probably a poster of you up in every store with "do not sell surge filters to this man" underneath <snail> ojwb: i can think of worse things to be written under my photo. <chilts> Wanted! <chilts> for one <ibeardslee> better than "Not Wanted" <snail> "wanted dead or alive" with the second half scratched out <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> right xfce it is then <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <hads> Mornin <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> http://digitizor.com/2011/08/04/linus-torvalds-ditches-gnome-for-xfce/ <ibeardslee> love the comment about not using unity <ibeardslee> in the comments, not the article <chilts> not surprising really .. he should just switch to XMonad :) <snail> he's a long way from the target audience of gnome, and getting further away by the day <ojwb> morning <ajmitch> at least it's a friday morning <thumper> morning <ojwb> oh, very funny natty <ojwb> apt-get remove 'gnome-.*' <ojwb> and it tries to install kde <ibeardslee> ojwb: is that to get a xfce desktop or somesuch? #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-05 <ojwb> no, it's because somebody decided to rename the bootloader config from text.cfg to txt.cfg so my preseed file got ignored and my new VM is full of crap I don't want <ojwb> gnome desktop isn't pleasant with too little memory <ojwb> it keeps randomly deciding I've held a key down <ibeardslee> apt-get purge ubuntu-desktop ? <ojwb> that doesn't actually do much, as it's just a meta package <ojwb> and autoremove didn't then seem to get rid of the actual stuff <ibeardslee> then apt-get autoremove <ojwb> but it's painful <ibeardslee> oh <ojwb> randomly it'll think I hit enter a lot of times and the terminal will whizz up <ojwb> i'm pretty close to deleting it and restarting <ibeardslee> sometimes that is easier <ibeardslee> of course because you /home is a different partition should be easy right? <ojwb> it's a VM, there's nothing in /home yet <ojwb> it just takes a while to chug through the install <ojwb> well, it now seems to have corrupted itself, so I guess that's made the decision for me <ibeardslee> heh <ojwb> so when the electricity company said they'd send someone "within 4-6 hours", then actually meant "within 5 days" <ojwb> I can see how that's an easy mistake to make <ajmitch> hours, days, what's the difference? <chilts> roll on the weekend!!! <chilts> tgif <ibeardslee> what, now it's the weekend .. what am I going to do without people at work telling me what to do all the time? <ajmitch> relax? <chilts> and enjoy it :) * ojwb wonders if launchpad has deliberately made in unobvious how to file a bug <ajmitch> ojwb: yes <ajmitch> are you trying to file a bug against ubuntu? <ojwb> well, I just gave up <ojwb> but it's against help.ubuntu.com <ojwb> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/installation-guide/example-preseed.txt is missing <ojwb> but linked to, and exists for 10.04 and 10.10 <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug might be the best place, not sure if that covers help.ubuntu.com though <ojwb> if it doesn't, they really need to make it more obvious where to file issues #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-06 <ojwb> hmm, installing devscripts on natty pulls in libgl1-mesa-dri <ajmitch> ojwb: that must be some odd dependency chain, even if it's just recommends <ojwb> yeah <ojwb> it looked liked some gstreamer packagekit thing might be involved, but I didn't really look <ajmitch> still odd <ajmitch> devscripts should have nothing to do with that <ojwb> yeah, but it is at least connected to packaging <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> cold outside today, hands need to thaw out #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-07 <ibeardslee> morning <hads> morn <ajmitch> morning <snail> honestly didn't see you on the bus this morning ibeardslee... <snail> felt like a complete tool <ibeardslee> must have been the cold and lack of insulation on the head <chilts> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-08 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-09 <ajmitch> finally downloaded oneiric alpha 3 iso, that took awhile <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-10 <ibeardslee> so what speed should one expect when doing 'bzr branch' from launchpad? <elky> Heh. <elky> I often have to wait a good 15 seconds. <ibeardslee> currently I have it going between 25kB/s and 12kB/s <elky> yeah that sounds about right <ibeardslee> 'yuck' <elky> yep. I believe there's no launchpad servers even in this hemisphere. <ajmitch> ibeardslee: I've had it often go faster, but it's still slow <lifeless> ibeardslee: http or ssh ? <ibeardslee> ssh <ibeardslee> noticing a couple of 51 and 85 now <lifeless> what project? <ibeardslee> openerp <thumper> ibeardslee: it depends <ibeardslee> righto .. I'll leave that fetching while I rush off to the gym <chilts> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning * thumper needs moar coffee * chilts needs moar tea #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-11 <chilts> thumper: heh, remember a while ago we were talking about things at Canonical ... I've just been chatting to niemeyer on IRC, I'm gonna try implementing a service or two for his Go AMZ libraries :) <chilts> random thing for today anyway :) <thumper> :) <thumper> cool <chilts> I mean, I have a Perl library I wrote to talk to all the AWS stuff, so I might as well try it in Go too <chilts> am using Go for a couple of small projects at the moment but will be using it more in the future :D <chilts> and NodeJS too ... they're all pretty fun! <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morena <snail> mÅrena <Atamira> id have the dohickey thing over my o too <Atamira> cept i dont have it atm and i really cant be bothered fiddling with it <ajmitch> but you can't find it on your keyboard? :) <Atamira> its not on my kb <ojwb> morning <chilts> ojwb: how was skiing? <ojwb> pretty good <chilts> where did you go, North Island or over the water? <ojwb> whakapapa <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-12 <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> tho..its saturday <Atamira> its normally quiet on the weekend #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-13 <ojwb> morning <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-14 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> get some snow? <thumper> morning <thumper> ibeardslee: yup <thumper> all schools closed here <thumper> so kids at home <thumper> I foresee not a lot of work getting done <ibeardslee> still had snow on the lawn this morning <snail> thumper: let me introduce you to the concept of 'child labour' <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning ! <Atamira> what a beautiful morning <Atamira> mother nature is howling and no one is listening <ibeardslee> mother nature needs to do something about her dandruff .. <Atamira> lol <Atamira> thats her cheap inexpensive sparkles <Atamira> well they sparkle in the sunlight <ibeardslee> ohh my bad <Atamira> and it disappears cause she doesnt want ppl to get greedy <ajmitch> it's not disappearing very fast <Atamira> it will if you try to collect it <ajmitch> too cold for that <Atamira> and its cheating if you keep it in the fridge <chilts> morning <chilts> we had _massive_ snowflakes in Upper Hutt <chilts> it was pretty cool! <snail> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/5442507/Agencies-told-to-open-up-databases looking good <ojwb> chilts: we were driving back from kapiti coast and wondering if we'd make it... <chilts> yeah, we left Porirua at about mid-afternoon and it got pretty heavy once we got home - pretty lucky <chilts> but you got through ok? <ojwb> yes - the worst moment was the wheels skidding as we drove up the shared drive to the house! <chilts> wowser, yeah, your drive is pretty steep <ojwb> i knew there were chains in the garage at least <ibeardslee> light snow falling outside my window at work <chilts> yeah, it's started again :) <chilts> BLIZZARD! <chilts> well, not quite <chilts> but very nice <chilts> outside my window: http://wixcam.citylink.co.nz/courtenay/ <chrismsnz> morning <ojwb> flurries here too <ajmitch> nothing much here today <chrismsnz> snow in auckland, please :o <ojwb> apparently turoa has had 60cm <chrismsnz> ojwb: awesome <chrismsnz> I was in ohakune last weekend when it was snowing <chrismsnz> must have a 2.5m base by now eh <ojwb> we drove up to whakapapa last sunday, and struggled on drifts on one corner <ojwb> (2wd with chains) <ojwb> made it eventually though <snail> snowballs being made on the kelburn campus <chrismsnz> just read the snow report, turoa is looking to be >3m by the end of the day <ojwb> the first time I skied there was the epic snow year - the next year there were a lot more rocks and cliffs than I remembered... <ojwb> that was more than 5m IIRC <chrismsnz> _b <snail> no longer about to see willis street from kelbern parade #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-15 <snail> sunshine in kelburn, but big black clouds to the south <chilts> it's a pretty random day, cold, snow, sun, snow, sun etc :) <snail> i'm seeing network issues accessing the rest of the internet. i'm thinking that people are clearing the snow of their rooves <snail> and it's snowing again <ibeardslee> there are signs of much network boo-boo about atm <ajmitch> ibeardslee: so it's not just dunedin? :) * ajmitch lost connectivity at home from about 12:30, modem is stuck on trying to reauthenticate <ajmitch> local shop didn't have eftpos working <chrismsnz> anybody have a hosting company they recommend for hosting a small asp.net site? <ibeardslee> I recommend Rimuhosting .. I would assume the can do asp.net stuff <chrismsnz> I've been here before - i was looking at their vps offering <chrismsnz> a little while ago <chrismsnz> can't see anything to do with asp but i'll send them an email <ojwb> my ADSL was out for a while <ojwb> (hutt valley) <ajmitch> seems that it was a telecom fault <chrismsnz> snowing in the auckland cbd lol <chrismsnz> http://tsai.net.nz/fun06/P8150040.jpg mt albert <hads> Anyone need a USB DVB-T tuner that half works? https://nicegear.co.nz/dvb-cards/technotrend-t1900-usb/ <ibeardslee> nope <ibeardslee> would be interested if I knew it worked with linux, and knew that my netbook cpu & ram could handle it <ibeardslee> I've tried a couple of them .. not sure if it is .. <ibeardslee> 1/ don't deal with linux very well <ibeardslee> 2/ don't deal with my CPU, RAM video very well <ibeardslee> 3/ Shite reception <ajmitch> hads: how does it half work? <ojwb> sounds like SD but not HD <ojwb> which might be OK for a second tuner, but would irritate if it's the only one your have <ajmitch> depends on how much you care about tv <ojwb> well, if you care enough to buy a tuner... <hads> ibeardslee: Everything we sell is tested with Linux <hads> ajmitch: Yeah, what ojwb said. It won't record HD so you can't record TV1, 2 & 3. Good for someone who wants to test, rip EPG etc. <hads> Not good for real use. <ojwb> 3+1 appears to be all SD though, at least currently <hads> Yeah, even though the individual programs are marked SD/HD, they broadcast the entire channel in either HD or SD and upscale/downscale to suit. <ajmitch> so it wouldn't be useful for the usual channels? <ojwb> ajmitch: you couldn't get TV1 or TV2 at all with it <ajmitch> not so tempting a buy then :) <ojwb> i'd guess all the mainstream channels will be HD eventually (perhaps once analog gets switched off, if that spectrum hasn't just been flogged to mobile phone companies) * ajmitch wonders if tv will be broadcast over the fibre network to homes in coming years <ojwb> probably <ajmitch> some ISPs already do some bundles with iSky <hads> ajmitch: Not super useful no, but cheap :) <Hoggs> All the major TV studios all transmit their live feeds to each other over fibre <Hoggs> the super clean HD feeds <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <chrismsnz> morning <chilts> I have my coat on in work again <mwhudson> :) <mwhudson> it's actually fairly warm here <chilts> how's bizdojo, warm enough? <chilts> right <mwhudson> chilts: yes <mwhudson> chilts: had they had the heatpumps put in when you came around? <chilts> that lady never did send me back info about a day a week thing <chilts> dunno <mwhudson> oh <mwhudson> i'll poke her then <chilts> I'll ping her sometime <chilts> nah, no worries <mwhudson> okidoke <chilts> I'll send her an email .. prolly won't want something for a month or so anyway and then it might change again :) <mwhudson> heh yes, don' <mwhudson> heh yes, don't want to over-plan i guess <chilts> yeah, was certainly curious at the time though :) <chilts> in other news, has anyone used Go(Lang) much? <chilts> I've been hacking some stuff together over the past wee while and am really enjoying it :) <mwhudson> there are a couple of people at canonical who are pretty keen on it <chrismsnz> I had a little romp with it <chilts> yeah, been chatting to Gustavo - to add some more AWS services to his goamz library <mwhudson> it does seem pretty interesting from afar <chilts> I gave him a small patch yesterday <mwhudson> chilts: ah, yes, i mostly meant him :-) <chilts> heh <chrismsnz> I'm mostly a pythonista (although PHP by trade), but I like go :) <chilts> it's certainly interesting - between that and NodeJS I'm having a right ball playing with concurrency/event driven stuff <chilts> anyone interested in a Go User Group in Wgtn? * chilts is thinking of starting one <mwhudson> interested in principle, i guess :) <chilts> ok, 1 maybe then ... I'll be asking other people too and will probably post to the various other user groups when I know I have something :) <chilts> am just thinking about general numbers, not specifics, so I won't hold you to it <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning <chilts> hey guys, any other language specific user groups in Wellington I should tap-up for interest in a Go User Group - I have Wgtn.pm and NZPUG for now <chilts> I think there is a PHP one somewhere <chilts> maybe WellyLUG too <timClicks> can some .deb util do this? https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm/wiki/ConvertingPython <ajmitch> python-stdeb <ajmitch> timClicks: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/stdeb has some good info about using it <timClicks> ajmitch: jolly good, ta <ojwb> chilts: there's the functional programming group too <chilts> ah yeah, I was trying to remember that but forgot it's name - for some reason I was thinking they called themselves the 'strange languages' group or something :) <chilts> thanks <ojwb> it used to be something like "erlounge" <ojwb> but an erlang group was too narrow I guess <chilts> right, yeah * ojwb is interested in go, but then I'm interested in most things <chilts> yeah, same <chilts> though I think this one will stick (along with NodeJS) :) <ojwb> I think the approach to concurrency is very interesting <chilts> ojwb: for Go or Node? <ojwb> Go <chilts> I certainly like how the chans work, with all the message passing <ojwb> yes, it seems to neatly address some of the problematic issues with threads <chilts> yeah <chilts> I've read a few other libraries too (like the memcache one) and it's so small that you can learn a little something each time :) <chilts> I find it very enjoyable <chilts> and it kinda suits my way of thinking - but then so does node and they're very different, but both really cool <chilts> I refactored my queue thing in Node last week ... with more features to come: https://github.com/appsattic/sensi <chilts> (just a learning thing) #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-16 <snail> nice, the TEI community is having ructions and tracking them with the twitter tag #teiputsch . only in the digital humanities... * ojwb watches someone I can only assume is a surveyor who appears to be trying to take damp readings on the outside of the house next door <ojwb> in a snow storm <chilts> you have snow at the moment? <ojwb> yes, pretty big flakes <chilts> hmm, I should go an get an early train again ... just made it home within 2 hrs yesterday <chilts> oh right <ojwb> jenny said it's raining in the valley though <ajmitch> ojwb: you should move to dunedin, it's been pretty much clear of snow all day * ojwb didn't say snow was bad... <ojwb> though it seems wrong <ojwb> we hardly ever get a frost normally <ajmitch> dunedin seems to have missed quite a bit of snow this time <ajmitch> though we had a bit yesterday, much of that has melted now <timClicks> j'ville north of wellington had a decent covering on Sunday <timClicks> the last two days have been cold and wet, rather than fun and exciting <snail> timClicks: are you in jville too? <timClicks> yes <timClicks> I work from home <snail> this morning i gave up waiting for #53 and waked to the station. one of last night's #53 buses was abandoned on ironside <snail> s/waked/walked/ <timClicks> fyi http://nzpug.org/KiwiPyCon/2011/Helpers <snail> You are not allowed to view this page. * timClicks frowns * ajmitch could view it after logging in, but is in a group on the wiki that can view such things <timClicks> I should learn moinmoin <ibeardslee> we had great fun moving from moinmoin to mediawiki <ibeardslee> snail: I figured that it'd be ugly up that way so didn't bother waiting for the #53 .. glad I didn't after seing your tweet. <thumper> the child in me wants more snow <thumper> the parent wants the kids to go back to school :-| * ojwb just wants more snow - I guess that's the lack of kids... <ojwb> not sure when I last saw this much snow where I was living <ojwb> we had some in liverpool, uk, but it wasn't this much * ajmitch was rather disappointed this morning with the lack of snow <chilts> in Liverpool we'd sometimes get this much, but not every year <chilts> my brother in newcastle had a month's worth of snow last year and in some parts about a foot or two deep <thumper> oh arse <thumper> snow! <thumper> I wonder if it'll settle <chilts> it almost seems normal now <ajmitch> thumper: not from where I can see <thumper> ajmitch: I'm a little more elevated than you <ajmitch> I guess being up on the hill has its privileges <thumper> it hasn't stayed snowing though <thumper> not sure if relieved or disappointed <ajmitch> I doubt much will settle from now on, unless it snows overnight again <ojwb> it's really settling here - probably an inch in the past hour or two from looking at the fence top <ajmitch> it's just not right when wellington is getting more snow than dunedin :) <timClicks> snow now settling on the ground here <ojwb> i think it's snowing harder now too <thumper> no snow here <ojwb> there's now a good 5cm on the rail outside our front door, which was clear of snow earlier <chilts> we made a snoman and had a snowball fight when we got home <chilts> lovely fresh snow all around <chilts> though since then it's been raining, so it's already all slushy and horrible :) <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <thumper> morning <chrismsnz> morning <hads> ibeardslee: Did you ever find your rack power boards? <ibeardslee> found some that come close <ibeardslee> metered PDU <ibeardslee> the monitored or metered per outlet all seem to come in rack hieght and only 20 outlets <ibeardslee> found some that are metered for the PDU (not per outlet), with 20 outlets and we can fit two per side of the rack <hads> Just ran across these, you've probably seen them though; http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP8858 <ibeardslee> http://wirednz.co.nz/power-rails <ibeardslee> the 902.00 mm height means we can still only fit one on each side of the rack .. a 38U rack needs just under 80 outlets (2 per 1U server) <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-17 <ajmitch> oh dear <ajmitch> just saw http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/5458448/Malware-virus-hits-MetService-website <lifeless> wheee <ojwb> oh, so that's why we've had all this snow... <ojwb> it must have got into the weather control computers <lifeless> -lol- <ajmitch> </tinfoilhat> * ojwb didn't even realise the metservice served ads <ajmitch> it's not something I noticed either <ajmitch> maybe they can have some 'switch to ubuntu' ads on there after this <ojwb> seems a little odd for what is (according to that article) a state run site, but OTOH perhaps it's better than higher taxes <mwhudson> metservice is a SOE isn't it? <mwhudson> so in theory supposed to make it's own money where possible <ojwb> mwhudson: that's what the stuff article says <ojwb> but there's a question of what's appropriate <mwhudson> yeh <ojwb> and while I don't have direct recent experience of serving ads, I doubt it is all that lucrative <ajmitch> getting malware in was probably lucrative for whoever did it <ajmitch> especially as this one was apparantly a 'pay to fix your PC now' scam <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <chilts> awesome, the golang-nz group has been created, first meeting in September <chilts> 5 people on the list so far <snail> chilts: i wonder whether they'll write a go player ... <snail> chilts: URL? <chilts> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/golang-nz <chilts> sorry, was just writing an intro email :) <chilts> I've announced it on the golang-nuts list too <thumper> morning <ojwb> morning * ojwb hasn't played go in years #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-18 <snail> chilts: looking at it, the biggest obstacle to me using the go language is lack of an XML toolchain <ojwb> ooh, that sounds like a nice feature! <ibeardslee> why do people need something other than perl? <ojwb> envy? <ajmitch> the ability to read the source in 6 months time? <ojwb> if people only used perl, I'd only get to leave the house once a month <ajmitch> for the monthly perl UG meeting? :) <chilts> ibeardslee: because Go and NodeJS and other things let you think in different ways :) <ojwb> yeah <chilts> snail: yeah, good call ... I guess one may come along at some stage :) <ojwb> ajmitch: really one can write impenetrable code in any language - perl just offers more assistance then some <chilts> I wanted to try Erlang a few years ago but didn't ... NodeJS and Go are my new pet languages :D * ajmitch has seen some hairy python code <chilts> well, moreso Go 'coz I kinda know JavaScript already <chilts> heh, "offers more assistance" :) <ajmitch> it's like giving you more rope to hang yourself with <ojwb> exhibit a: http://survex.com/~olly/rheolism.html <ajmitch> so evil it's beautiful <chilts> hmm, meeting time, back later * ojwb actually managed to save a byte and fix the known bug in the process not long ago <chilts> olly: you wrote that enhanced version? <chilts> heh <ojwb> yeah <chilts> right, I see, you're crazy! :D * ojwb was peripherally involved in the original too <chilts> and a little funny (though that might be the same thing) <chilts> 10 people on the list now :) * snail has a itch to write a javascript BBC BASIC V emulator so he can play that game, but decides not to scratch it <snail> scratches https://github.com/stuartyeates/strawperson instead <ojwb> snail: yes, I've had that itch too <ojwb> a few quirks of the BBC BASIC implementation are exploited, which makes it a little trickier <ojwb> like s=s+1 working even when s doesn't previously exist and IF0ELSE to unbranch <snail> ojwb: what you mean is that you have pre-supplied test-cases for your project? <snail> so the government have launched a website (http://www.ict.govt.nz/ ) to launch a strategy which seems to include the 'fewer websites' policy... <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> is it time to go home yet? <Atamira> soon <Atamira> the day will be over before you realise it <ajmitch> it will if I fall asleep at my desk <ibeardslee> consider wrapping a towel around your head now <ibeardslee> it'll save the key imprints on the forehead later <Atamira> i normally push the kb out of the way so i have nice smooth desk to snooze on <ibeardslee> not pushing yourself hard enough if you have time to do that! ;) <Atamira> lol <thumper> morning <Atamira> i dont want imprints on my fce <Atamira> face <Atamira> and whole lines of blank spaces on whatever im doing <chilts> morning * chilts waits for Atamira to post 'zzz z z xx zaskjfha sd zzzzzzz' <Atamira> LOL <mwhudson> morning <snail> what you need is a videoconference software plugin that detects when you've fallen asleep and mutes the audio/video <hads> Neat just found a bug in nicegear that's never been discovered, searching for "and" or "or" by themselves breaks. <chilts> that's quite interesting <chilts> what about 'and or or'? :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-19 <chilts> did someone say hometime yet? <snail> hoemtime <snail> hometime even <ojwb> hometime yet <ajmitch> yay for fridays <ibeardslee> yay for boc <chilts_> morning <ajmitch> far too early in the day for that <chilts_> oopse, many apologies <chilts_> though I was up at 6:30 for some bizarre reason #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-20 <ojwb> chilts: partying all night, eh? <chilts> heh, not quite - Becks had to go to work and her alarm goes at 6! <ojwb> eep <ojwb> or rather, beep #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-21 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> shite .. this HP offloading parts of it's business is going to create a lot of suck <Atamira> morning <chilts> morning <chilts> ibeardslee: why? for you personally or in general? <ibeardslee> in general <ibeardslee> finally had someone able to provide both PCs and Laptops with a Legacy OS <ibeardslee> err withOUT a Legacy OS <chilts> ah true <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> hey looks like I'm back <mwhudson> ibeardslee: it does <mwhudson> morning, btw <ajmitch> having internet issues? <ibeardslee> seems my interwebs went down at home <ibeardslee> server stayed up #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-22 <ibeardslee> hmmm anyone on T/C cable in J'ville? <ojwb> you? <ibeardslee> hmmm anyone *else* on T/C cable in J'ville? <mwhudson> i imagine there are a few people <ibeardslee> hmmm anyone *else* *in here* on T/C cable in J'ville? * mwhudson looks for more gaps to shove some pedantry through * chilts can't find any (yet) <ibeardslee> I'm surprised no-one said "but Telecom don't do cable, just ADSL" ;) <chilts> I guess we missed that opportunity (or we just though you'd had enough) :) <ibeardslee> thought ? <ajmitch> picky... <ibeardslee> heh <chilts> yeah, thought :) <chilts> hehe <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <fmarier> morning <Atamira> ahhh..my 4 day weekend has started <ibeardslee> oh lucky you <Atamira> yeah. i love 4 day on 4 day off rosters <chilts> Atamira: what do you do? <chilts> my brother has a similar timetable, as a firefighter in the UK <Atamira> sigh..i wish it was that fun <Atamira> i work for the company that monitors offender on home detention <Atamira> we run 24/7 <Atamira> and i work on the graveyard shift <chilts> ah right, I guessed it must have involved a night shift of some sort <chilts> yeah, 4 days off would be good :) <Atamira> makes my work weeks over quick #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-23 <fmarier> mwhudson: it is indeed a good line. the part about crypto not protecting against the four Bs is pretty good too <mwhudson> i would like a few more citations (like, why shouldn't you use RSA without message padding?) <mwhudson> but it's a good summary <chilts> article/link? sounds interesting <mwhudson> chilts: http://twitter.com/#!/fmarier/status/105855042480898048 <chilts> ta <mwhudson> heh <mwhudson> fmarier: nice background :) <chilts> I remember doing a signature with AWS and figuring out aa different message with an identical hash :) <chilts> this was a while ago when they got their api wrong <fmarier> mwhudson: it's a picture I took in seatoun a while back <mwhudson> fmarier: i was going to ask where it was, then i saw the file name :) <mwhudson> (i could tell it was from that part of the world though) <ojwb> i think padding is usually to avoid issues where an attacker can get an input of their choice encrypted <chilts> I'm outta here & <ojwb> 3 minutes early! <ojwb> hmm, they don't seem to make it easy to find what the suggest min spec is <ojwb> or else I'm looking in the wrong places <ojwb> aha - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Server/TechSpecs/1004LTS <ojwb> and there's no such page for natty <ojwb> sigh <ojwb> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/serverguide/C/preparing-to-install.html#id2706724 <ojwb> which oddly has lower requirements for 11.04 than 10.04, which I find surprising <ojwb> is anyone else running mythtv and finding it cuts off the ends of programmes recently? ntpd seems to be running and working, so it doesn't seem to be just the wrong time locally... <hads> ojwb: It will be the broadcasters not sticking to the schedule, they are acolon@example.com. <hads> You can set a pre/post roll per recording rule. <hads> (and globally but I suggest per-rule) <hads> I'm currently running off an install on a USB stick, installed from an ISO written out to another USB stick, after my SSD died while I'm in Sydney :) <ojwb> hads: yeah, I have a global "record 5 minutes extra" <ojwb> but even that's not been enough in some cases <ojwb> and sometimes stuff abuts on different channels <ojwb> it's a shame there doesn't seem to be a program break signal here <ojwb> UK has that, though they seem to forget to send it depressingly often <hads> ojwb: The global one will stop back to back programs recording. They per-rule one doesn't from memory. <ojwb> hmm, the global one doesn't seem to <ojwb> perhaps I've set something else <hads> Maybe I have it the wrong way around. <ojwb> it currently just starts a minute early and finishes 5 minutes late unless it has to switch to a different multiplex in that extra time <ojwb> or whatever it is I set <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> tho i feel like its the weekend <mwhudson> morning <hads> Morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-24 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-25 * karora looks at this channel for the first time in months. <karora> I'd say 'morrning', except the sun's gone down where I acolon@example.com. <ajmitch> hi karora :) <ajmitch> good to see you're still around <karora> Indeed I am :-) <ajmitch> still in wellington, or travelling the world? <karora> I'm at home at present - a couple of months off the gallivanting. <karora> Where are you keeping yourself these days? <ajmitch> still in dunedin <ajmitch> though I'll be in wellington for the weekend for kiwipycon <karora> Nice. <karora> When's kiwipycon? <ajmitch> this weekend :) <karora> Maybe I should try and attend... <karora> Is it all sold out? <ajmitch> saturday/sunday <ajmitch> you may be able to sneak in a registration <ajmitch> last I saw they were close <ojwb> they kept them open longer - I think they now close today <ajmitch> last email I saw said registrations until thursday night * karora registered OK now. <karora> I just have to pay it, I guess... <karora> Anyone wanting a G+ invite: https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/ngemlink?path=%2F%3Fgpinv%3DsiDnl6r_VQ0%3AFIyXaOX8bsQ <karora> And for me, I'm at: http://gplus.to/karora <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> looks like we may be able to have a wee #ubuntu-nz meatspace meeting the kiwi PyCon <ajmitch> could do <chilts> morning <ajmitch> you going to kiwi pycon? <ibeardslee> yup * ajmitch is heading up to wellington this morning * ibeardslee is already here ;) <ajmitch> I wonder why... <ibeardslee> just made sense to get here early <chilts> heh <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning <chilts> sweet, got my tests and integrated tests working for SimpleDB (written in Go) :) <chilts> integration I should say <karora> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-26 <ojwb> morning <chilts> it's a Saturday and it's early ... what's going on? <chilts> P.S. morning <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <olly> chilts: pycon <olly> and public transport options from my house being unfeasible <olly> so wanting to leave time to make sure I could park <olly> which turned ou to be fine <ajmitch> olly: so you're here somewhere in the room? <olly> i guess so <olly> i'm the one with the beard <ajmitch> very specific :) <olly> i have a laptop * ajmitch is the one with the laptop running ubuntu <olly> it's like a rather homogenous "guess who" game <ajmitch> quite <olly> ajmitch: we should sign keys (I don't think we have before) <ajmitch> yes, I think I have some ID somewhere <olly> i only have nz licence I think, but I can bring pasport tomorrow <olly> perhaps I should see if there's wider interest in key signing * ajmitch has seen other DDs around also <olly> yeah, karora and fmarier at least <ajmitch> & nwp <olly> but I've signed keys with both of them <olly> nwp? <ajmitch> nick phillips <olly> don't think I even know of him <ajmitch> he lives in dunedin <olly> ok <olly> i really need to stop adding more slides in <ibeardslee> slides more slides * karora looks up <karora> olly: Did you sign my new key? 8feb8ebf <karora> fmarier: Has, but neither you not ajmitch have <karora> with small text <thumper> ibeardslee: when are you talking? * ibeardslee isn't <thumper> oh? <ibeardslee> .. .. at least I don't think I am <thumper> why not? <olly> karora: i think so <ibeardslee> what about? <olly> unless the old one had a similarly "pretty" fingerprint <ajmitch> thumper & olly have competing talks at the same time <olly> i bet he'll win more audience <thumper> I could send some your way if you like? <thumper> you can have the hecklers <olly> karora: seems not actually <thumper> Rachel is talking with me so we have a few turning up out of curiosity :-) <Atamira> morning <Atamira> oh. chatty for a saturday <ibeardslee> kiwipycon <olly> aww <olly> not a python fan I guess <ibeardslee> heh * olly does find it amusing that I'm giving one of two "advanced" talks, yet I'm more of a novice Python coder <ajmitch> web 3.11 for workgroups? <ibeardslee> eww <olly> i thought version numbers were obsolete * ajmitch sees that snap finally have native ipv6 for customers on DSL <ibeardslee> well firefox is going to get to the 6 digit version numbers in the next couple of weeks <ibeardslee> ajmitch: that reminds me I need to nag at TelstraClear .. again <karora> ajmitch: Isn't that plannes as an upcoming version number for the linux kernel? <ajmitch> karora: I heard it will be * ajmitch has seen python in the browser - silverlight & ironpython :) <karora> Heh. <karora> Does it work with moonlight? <ajmitch> don't recall, this was awhile ago <ajmitch> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml <ibeardslee> olly: make sure the text in your slides is about the size in these slides <ajmitch> my eyes... <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> too hard to read and follow .. losing interest very fast * mwhudson declares #ubuntu-nz to be the official kiwipycon bitching backchannel <ajmitch> heh :) <ajmitch> don't worry, twitter is getting similar comments <duffyd> heard this channel was interesting ;) <ajmitch> FSVO interesting :) <mwhudson> it's hardly a subjective opinion that these slides are terrible <duffyd> exactly <duffyd> why oh why!!!!! <olly> the text could be much larger on most <olly> by using the lower 1/4 of the screen for example <mwhudson> the music and drilling (!) inside the venue is not exactly appreciated <olly> ibeardslee: I was worried if the text on my slides would be readable, but it's way better than these * olly could do with borrowing a laptop power lead for a bit (just the standard mains cable with the 3 lobe bit on laptop side) <karora> olly: I have a three pin mains lead here. <olly> karora: excellent - can I grab it in the break? <olly> the one at hoime was a UK one, and I forget to grab an NZ one on the way out <karora> Sure. <karora> I should have enough battery to make it through to lunchtime. <karora> Or perhaps I should even shut the laptop down :-) <olly> heh <olly> i may have enough, but it would be bad to run out mid talk #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-27 <karora> olly: BTW, I have finished with your USB stick (thanks) I should have given it back when you handed m the power cord :-) <olly> karora: ok, i'll grab it when I get a chance <ajmitch> morning <olly> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> so hard to wake up <ibeardslee> easier than it was yesterday <olly> later start too <olly> and again i seem to have no power lead, despite getting it out to take, sigh <olly> i brought my passport and key fingerprint if anyone is at pycon and wants to sign keys, but i won't be online a lot <ibeardslee> heh <karora> olly: I'll sign your key :-) <olly> cool * ibeardslee can do so as well #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-28 <olly> ibeardslee: ok, i'll try to grab you at some point <ibeardslee> at the afternoon tea break .. walk around mooing loudly, I'll listen for the noise <ibeardslee> don't go baa .. it might confuse any australians at the venue <olly> ok <ibeardslee> the talk I'm in about twisted (track 2) has finished early <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <ibeardslee> how was the holiday? <olly> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> great to come back into the office to a dead computer <ibeardslee> does that mean you get an upgrade <ajmitch> no, this was simply the one doing NAT to the network upstairs, & to the internet <Atamira> morning <thumper> morning <thumper> I am looking forward to next year :) <ibeardslee> should be good and interesting <Atamira> grief. im just looking forward to making it through xmas <Atamira> left alone another year <ajmitch> ibeardslee: we expect to see you down here :) <ibeardslee> should be doable .. as long as you promise no norovirus <ajmitch> don't you want the full Dunedin Experience? <ibeardslee> I missed out at last Dunedin conference .. it's a tradition I'd like to stick with <ajmitch> I missed out as well, must have been something to do with living in town & not at unicol <hads> Morning <hads> I stayed at the uni and didn't get sick. <ajmitch> aha, I remembered my github password :) <ajmitch> I knew I had an account there, so the free beer wasn't wasted :) <snail> ibeardslee: cruising was not as relaxing as expected. too much on board entertainment. also it rained, quite a bit. <snail> nice http://data.govt.nz/dataset/show/2287 <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-29 <ajmitch> clients with data in a MS works database, this'll be fun to try & import <hads> heh <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> morning <ajmitch> hads: finally using the pppoa/pppoe passthrough that I bought the draytek for :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-08-30 <hads> ajmitch: Nice one! <hads> Working well? <ajmitch> took a bit of effort, had to upgrade firmware to +1-473-444-0812, but I have native ipv6 at home with snap now <ajmitch> enabling the passthrough & getting it working for ipv4 was pretty easy, just had to run pppoeconf <hads> Cool, native 6 is good. <ajmitch> yeah, I was surprised to see that snap were making it available for all, rather than an opt-in public trial <ajmitch> so I guess it may make some sites a little faster, since I previously had a tunnel active through he.net <ajmitch> otherwise I doubt it'll change a lot :) <hads> Yeah, I have a couple of tunnels, can't remember which one is active at the moment. <hads> Native would be nice but I won't go back to snap <ajmitch> other ISPs will get there soon, I hope <hads> Yeah, shouldn't be too long before v6 over VDSL is here. <ajmitch> which ISP are you with? <ajmitch> hardest part at the moment seems to be having dsl modems/routers that actually support ipv6 <hads> Been with Telecom for the last 18 months as they were the only ones I could find to provide decent International bandwidth. <hads> Was with Snap before that who had issues they weren't prepared to fix. * ajmitch hasn't noticed many issues with snap <hads> Neither did I for a couple years, then one day my connection went from 1MB/s down to 30kB/s. Snap said they were aware of it and didn't consider it an issue. <ajmitch> that's a pretty big issue <ajmitch> I've usually found the snap support to be helpful & quick to respond <hads> Indeed. Held out for a couple months trying to resolve it but
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