#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-01 <phillw> Hiyas, when you all get over your hangovers from New Years Eve celebrations, could someone post up the date / time of the next meeting both in topic and on the wiki page, thanks. #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-05 <TheMuso> Pendulum: I won't have anything to report at this week's meeting, so if you have anything, please either pm/message/email me, as I may not be able to make the meeting. <UndiFineD> hey TheMuso <UndiFineD> have you seen ##speechcontrol ? * AlanBell wonders if Pendulum will change the topic . . . <Pendulum> when I am more awake, yes <Pendulum> but we went to a show in NYC last night and I got maybe 5 hours sleep <UndiFineD> good morning Pendulum <Pendulum> hi UndiFineD <UndiFineD> was it a good show ? <Pendulum> it was! It had one of my favourite musical theatre actresses in it and she was very much "on" last night :D <UndiFineD> ah musicals, something I get to watch often from dvds in this house :P <Pendulum> heh <Pendulum> today I also pick up new glasses so I am expected a couple days of less computer as my eyes adjust (even my optomotrist told me that the chance in prescription was enough that it may disorient me some) <Pendulum> *change <UndiFineD> I amI am lazy with glasses, I have them, but forget, both eyes a +1 <Pendulum> I'm -6.25 in both eyes. If I didn't wear them I would only be able to see things within about 4 inches <Pendulum> luckily corrected we get them up pretty close to normal (used to be able to get them better than normal, but not anymore) <UndiFineD> being involved in a lot of good projects is nice, it also means I get a lot of email, sorry if I kept you waiting #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-06 <jay_> Hello. I'm interested in somehow getting involved with the accessibility team. I'm not sure exactly how I could help out - perhaps with application testing - but I'd like to do what I can. <jay_> Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction to get plugged in and involved? <AlanBell> hi Arcitens <Arcitens> hi <Arcitens> how are you doing? <AlanBell> not too bad, you wanted to get involved in accessibility <AlanBell> which is great <AlanBell> in the topic there are links to the mailing list and the wiki area <Arcitens> yes, I've looked at the wiki a little bit, including the testing page <Arcitens> I'm interested in helping with application testing, but I'm not sure how or where to get started. I'm also interested in helping with wherever there needs help. <AlanBell> one thing that is coming up is testing of the new unity interface in Natty <charlie-tca> And we would like help with testing that, including trying to write up what works and filing bugs for what doesn't <Arcitens> Ok. I might be interested in that. I'm also interested in testing applications, since that also goes beyond Ubuntu. <Arcitens> But either way how would I get involved? <Arcitens> Ok. I'm going to head out. I'll be back tomorrow. Looking forward to getting involved. <charlie-tca> AlanBell: Do we need to make a list of things to test? or can we just create a wiki page and let testing happen? <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I think we need a good sense from TheMuso about what he thinks are most likely things to test <Pendulum> and then create a priority list so that we know at least the most important things get tested <charlie-tca> Okay. Right now, we know most things are broken in Natty, but we could have tests run on applications using Maverick. At least that was my thought #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-07 <Arcitens> Hello <rohitnikcool> hello i am having some network problem can anyone help me out. <Pendulum> charlie-tca: if I can get you a copy of the proposed new UW wiki theme can you look at it and let us know what needs to be fixed? ( us = AlanBell mostly) <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have a link somewhere to the new UW theme? <Pendulum> hajour: I'm really sorry, but I think you messaged me like a week ago and I just completely forgot to respond <charlie-tca> Pendulum: yes, I can take a look <Pendulum> charlie-tca: okay, hopefully Alan will have a link soonish as the link pleia2 had doesn't seem to be working anymore <charlie-tca> Okay, no problem <cprofitt> Cool... you guys have a whole new wiki theme? <cprofitt> I had someone pickup my bug about the wiki just recently... <Pendulum> cprofitt: there's been an UW-specific theme in the works for the UW wiki (which is not the same as the Ubuntu wiki) <Pendulum> UW = Ubuntu Women <cprofitt> oh... <cprofitt> I thought perhaps it was part of the ubuntu wiki <cprofitt> does canonical maintain the server or do you guys have control of it? <Pendulum> OTOH, it has to get approved by IS so maybe if we can make it accessible, we can get it approved for the main wiki too <cprofitt> so Canonical hosts... <cprofitt> cool... <Pendulum> yes <cprofitt> if they fix the theme for the main site to honor moin moin code I will be happy <cprofitt> right now it doesn't honor center, left, right alignment in tables <AlanBell> o/ <AlanBell> cprofitt: got a bug number? <cprofitt> I do at home AlanBell <cprofitt> a developer picked up the bug for me... <cprofitt> let me check LP... it should be listed there too <AlanBell> I have been submitting fixes to the main wiki theme, I have a bunch of outstanding merge requests that have been approved and not merged <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have a link for where charlie-tca could test the UW wiki theme? <AlanBell> I will fire it up on my laptop and post a link <AlanBell> Pendulum: can you delete me from the wordpress blog and re-add me please <Pendulum> AlanBell: yep, I'll see if I can <AlanBell> great <cprofitt> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-isd-web/+bug/657472 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 657472 in canonical-isd-web "Alignment being ignored in the new wiki theme (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] <Pendulum> AlanBell: see if it works now <Pendulum> charlie-tca: what was the name of the wordpress theme you thought was probably accessible? <Pendulum> AlanBell: so that worked? <AlanBell> yes <AlanBell> I have to go eat and stuff now, will be back in an hour or two <Pendulum> no worries. I'm looking at themes :) <charlie-tca> Pendulum: can't remember now. I will have to go searching for it * charlie-tca is braindead today <Pendulum> charlie-tca: can you look at the current theme and tell me what you think? (it's the default. I'm also going to play with some others) <charlie-tca> yup; URL again? <Pendulum> http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ <charlie-tca> really brain dead today... can't remember hardly anything today <Pendulum> no worries <Pendulum> I know what brain fog is like :) <charlie-tca> Um, the non-selected item is dark grey on black, making it hard to see <Pendulum> *nods* <charlie-tca> the light-gray on white is not bad, though, when looking at "About" <Pendulum> ok <charlie-tca> Text typed in the boxes is easy to read, too. <charlie-tca> Unfortunately, if you can't see the menu well, the rest won't matter <Pendulum> I'm going to try another theme (one with non-fixed width) and then maybe see about playing around with colours because I think I can change those (or get Alan to help me) <charlie-tca> the top is busy, but that can be easily not seen <Pendulum> try refreshing. what do you think of this one? <Pendulum> I can easily chance colours on it <Pendulum> *change <Pendulum> (easier than on the first one) <charlie-tca> that is much better <Pendulum> okay, I like it better too :) <charlie-tca> That's similar to the one I am looking for <Pendulum> that one is called Garland <charlie-tca> but, it will take me a while to find that name <charlie-tca> I like Garland then <Pendulum> I'm correct that flexible width is better than fixed for anyone who blows up the type size, right? <charlie-tca> and the fact that it is not fixed width makes a difference for those trying to use it full screen <Pendulum> yeah <charlie-tca> Even when I grow the text big, I can see see the whole page <Pendulum> *nods* <Pendulum> is blue a good colour for you? <charlie-tca> yes, <charlie-tca> blue is great <charlie-tca> Might have hajour take a look at it, because she loses some color I see <Pendulum> what if I make the general text to actual black, would that be better? <charlie-tca> Always <charlie-tca> Ideal colors are yellow on red or black on white or white on black <Pendulum> *nods* <charlie-tca> and yes, that is a true yellow on red, not faded or tinted yellow <charlie-tca> You got it! that is much better, just don't know it until you see it <Pendulum> try refreshing again, I just made the links darker too <charlie-tca> hm, not sure I don't want the links lighter again. They tend to blend into the text now at times <Pendulum> okay <Pendulum> I can restore that <Pendulum> I wasn't sure if they were too light originally <Pendulum> just let me finish adding the about page and I'll return them :) <charlie-tca> we don't like that color for links. Either got to be lighter or a different color to show up <Pendulum> charlie-tca: is this better? <charlie-tca> Yes, for these eyes it sure is. <Pendulum> okay <charlie-tca> w00t! bonus - can read the text and find the links - what a deal <Pendulum> hajour: when you get a chance can you look at http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ and let us know how the theme works for you in terms of accessibility? (you can ignore most of the content as that will change once we know the theme is good!) <Pendulum> okay, the About page has been updated with a link to the wiki <Pendulum> once we know the theme is definitely good, I'll add it to planet and make a first real post :) <Pendulum> can y'all tell I'm feeling better than I have in a month? ;) <Pendulum> do we have a team symbol? <charlie-tca> Pendulum: glad to hear you are feeling somewhat better! It does show, you know <Pendulum> err... or whatever the word is that I'm looking for and can't remember... <Pendulum> (I'm just wondering if there's a graphic I can use for when I put stuff on planet) <charlie-tca> I have one we used for the wiki (orange cirlce with wheelchair) that we can have blown up if we want to. We can also change the color if needed <Pendulum> *nods* <Pendulum> is there somewhere I can grab it from or can you e-mail it to me or something? <charlie-tca> grab it here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/HeaderMain?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=accessibility.png <charlie-tca> That's wrong <charlie-tca> Try again - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/HeaderMain?action=AttachFile <charlie-tca> You want to go to the accessibilityteam.png , get, save as... <charlie-tca> well, right click get and click save as <Pendulum> I want a nap. Sadly my father is watching train DVDs so no chance of that anytime soon :-/ <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I have the svg of that I think <AlanBell> or maybe not <AlanBell> bigger png though http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/accessibilityteam8.png <AlanBell> I appear to have deleted my local moin setup :( <AlanBell> the theme code is here https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-women/ubuntu-women.org/mointheme <AlanBell> will have a go at putting it back together over the weekend <charlie-tca> I will try to grab it and have a look #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-08 <hajour> hai all <Pendulum> I love that snow creates access fail which means that I don't have to go anywhere :) <webczat> Hey. <webczat> How accessible wxgtk and wxwidgets for windows is? #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-09 <Pendulum> AlanBell: charlie-tca you two have both tried Natty, right? <charlie-tca> yes <charlie-tca> I have <charlie-tca> I try a fresh installation about three times a week <Pendulum> charlie-tca: how bad is it? I'm trying to decide if I should try upgrading my mini to just use it as a test machine <charlie-tca> Not too bad, just can't find any keyboard shortcuts most days <charlie-tca> It requires the mouse, still <Pendulum> do they exist yet? <charlie-tca> not yet <Pendulum> TheMuso: do we have any ETA on the keyboard shortcuts at this point? <Pendulum> I'm in the middle of the doc team meeting where they're trying to decide how to manage docs since they'll need things for gnome2 and Unity <charlie-tca> That should be fun ;-) <Pendulum> to make it more fun a lot of the docs team is not happy about doing unity docs because of the copyright issue (don't blame 'em on that) <charlie-tca> I think they are still hoping for shortcut keys for alpha2 <Pendulum> they were supposed to be in alpha1 which is why I'm hoping Luke has more info <charlie-tca> They got bumped on the blueprint for unity <Pendulum> I know <Pendulum> but they got bumped really last minute <Pendulum> and I'd rather know now if they won't make alpha2! <AlanBell> I have tried natty <AlanBell> the installer was broken so I installed Maverick and upgraded #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-10 <TheMuso> Pendulum: If you mean for unity, nothing definitive at this point, other than alpha 2. <Pendulum> TheMuso: are things still on track to make it in to alpha 2? (are you sprinting in Dallas, btw?) <TheMuso> Pendulum: Yes things are still on track. There are a few more people on board, as this is too much for one person alone, so things are going to move at a quicker rate in the coming weeks. <Pendulum> yay! <codo> hola all ? <codo> anyone here ? <TheMuso> codo: Hi. <leoquant> hi codo <codo> hello all. <hajour> hai TheMuso <hajour> hai codo <hajour> and leoquant <hajour> :P <codo> so like If i want to get started on contributing to ubuntu accessibility where should I start ? <TheMuso> codo: Do you already have an idea of what you want to help with? <codo> TheMuso: hmm may be some tools that help hearing impaired ? <TheMuso> codo: Right, do you know whether those tools exist already? <codo> TheMuso: nope :P I'm a n00b in this domain :) <codo> TheMuso: also i'm a hearing impaired guy from India. <codo> TheMuso: it has been an ambition for me to get involved in some useful productive work to help some set of people because of my disability :) <TheMuso> codo: Ok, well I think the best bet at this point is to determine whether the tools exist for Linux already. If they do, then please let us know either via IRC, or the ubuntu accessibility mailing list. <TheMuso> We can ten look at ikntegrating those tools into the main distribution. <codo> TheMuso: ah sure :) <Pendulum> codo: what sorts of tools would you find helpful? <Pendulum> (I'm genuinely interested as most of my friends with hearing impairments say that they don't generally have access issues with computers) <hajour> i already dropped a while ago the idea for sound vibration alphabet.every sound have his own vibration what can be felt <codo> Pendulum: ah the most visible handicap is that we can't have transcripts for podcasts. <TheMuso> hajour: What hardware would do that? <codo> Pendulum: when there is whole lot of videos on youtube that are interesting/useful we can't access them. <codo> Pendulum: so say you want to hear to a google tech talk which is not even captioned how would you access it ? <hajour> if you put sound out loud it gives a kind vibration what deaf people feel <TheMuso> codo: Ah so you are thinking about speech to text recognition, and automatic text generation. <hajour> every hight have a differend vibration <TheMuso> hajour: Ah. <codo> TheMuso: exactly. I doubt if people have achieved it now. <nigelb> Just FYI, codo is a C programmer and gnome lover :) <hajour> it should be complete new so far i new anyway <TheMuso> Well speech to text is still very much a developing fied in open source, i.e there is not much that is possible at the moment. The commercial OSs still have way better software available in this regard. <codo> I know nigelb who directed me to this list. <TheMuso> nigelb: Sweet. <nigelb> :) <codo> TheMuso: ah in that case are there any other ways i can contribute to ubuntu accessibility ? <codo> TheMuso: like bugfixes or porting etc ? <hajour> TheMuso, you already seen the speechprogram to where we working on? <TheMuso> codo: Don't let what I said above put you off what you want to help with. <Pendulum> codo: the way to start may be to look at what speech-to-text programs need help. I think CMU Sphinx is in C <Pendulum> but I'm not sure about how to get involved in it or what they need help with <TheMuso> I suggest you get involved with one of the various speech to text projects that exist, and help them move forward with what you would like to see available. <codo> Pendulum: ah ok. Will look at that <codo> also i want to contribute to ubuntu /gnome accessibility <TheMuso> hajour: No. <codo> even if it helps other disabled / blinds / spastics I'd be happy :) <codo> so wher eto start :) ? <Pendulum> codo: CMU Sphinx http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/ <hajour> launchpad.net/~speechcontrolteam <codo> sorry if i'm sounding like a total n00b here :) <codo> ok thanks Pendulum hajour <Pendulum> codo: speech control is a new team that hajour's running to develop betting voice control for linux <Pendulum> I think it's less text-generation and more about controling the computer, but I could be wrong <codo> Pendulum: ah ok so it helps motor impaired ? <codo> to control computers ? <Pendulum> yep <hajour> yes we have people from simons listen festival and sonic <hajour> in the team <codo> okay, i can help with that if i can learn the code base :) <Pendulum> codo: also, charlie-tca is in charge of bug triage for accessibility bugs so he may have a good sense of what bugs you might be able to help with :) <codo> but for that I guess I have to find a way to uggle my 5 day work with 2 days of contributions to open src <codo> ok <codo> too much info to handle :D * codo should hang around here a bit more. <Pendulum> otherwise in a few weeks when alpha2 comes out for the next ubuntu release, we're going to need loads of people to test ;) <hajour> on the dev. speechcontrol is more information to on launchpad <Pendulum> yes! do hang around here <Pendulum> I also need to announce a meeting time. I think a week from wednesday <codo> yaa sure. :) <Pendulum> hajour: would you be able to do a meeting on the 19th at 21h UTC? <hajour> if you want you may join to in speechcontrol codo <Pendulum> TheMuso: ^^ <Pendulum> charlie-tca: ^^ (meeting time) <hajour> 19 jan you mean <Pendulum> AlanBell: ^^ <Pendulum> yes <hajour> yes that good to me <TheMuso> Pendulum: Yeah I should be recovered enough by then to attend that meeting. <UndiFineD> Pendulum: meeting time is alright with me :) <Pendulum> UndiFineD: I kinda figured you and hajour were probably a packaged pair :P <AlanBell> Pendulum: find by me I think <UndiFineD> :) <AlanBell> I will be in Belgium but should have connectivity <charlie-tca> Pendulum: should be okay here <Pendulum> \o/ * Pendulum schedules <hajour> TheMuso, i would appreciate if you wanted to look at the speechcontrol project and say what you think from it <codo> hajour: ya sure. <hajour> hehe yes Pendulum <codo> hajour: I will have to see the site first <codo> hajour: also im complete deaf without my hearing aids <codo> hajour: so hope i can still contribute to some parts where there is requirement to hear sounds etc ? <TheMuso> hajour: No promises any time soon, but I'll see what I can do. <codo> Pendulum: so meeting ? <codo> Pendulum: i live in India. I work all 5 days monday to friday :( <hajour> we have more people with health issues in the team codo <codo> Pendulum: not sure if it affects my work schedule the meeting that is <Pendulum> codo: I suspect it will be middle of the night for you :-/ <hajour> ok thank you TheMuso <codo> Pendulum: ya that is fine. <Pendulum> nigelb: can you translate 21h UTC into local time? <codo> Pendulum: if it is weekend it will be more helpful :) <Pendulum> (India throws me off) <codo> Pendulum: :) <Pendulum> it's actually mid-week <codo> charlie-tca: is not here ? <hajour> oops forgot to put me on back again * Pendulum changed the topic of #ubuntu-accessibility to: Ubuntu Accessibility Team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility for more info | http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility to join the mailing list | Channel IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Updated every hour | Next Team Meeting, January 19, 2011 21:00 UTC. Meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda <codo> hajour: so, like where should I Start off ? <charlie-tca> codo: yes, here, sort of <hajour> codo, if you want you may come to speechcontrol chatroom if you want. <hajour> to become more informed <codo> charlie-tca: so someone here was mentioning that you are the person to contact for bugs related to ubuntu accessibility <codo> hajour: ok server ? channel ? <hajour> freenode ##speechcontrol <charlie-tca> codo: yes. Most of the bugs we have are related to at-api <codo> what is at ? <hajour> Pendulum, i wonder when we become # channel <hajour> its for hole ubuntu accessibility this program and what is attached <UndiFineD> charlie-tca: atapi ? wasnt that cdrom ? :P AT-SPI <Pendulum> hajour: what are you looking for as a channel name? <Pendulum> if you're just looking for #speechcontrol , I think that's a matter of registering with freenode? <charlie-tca> codo: the core components of GNOME Accessibility. <codo> charlie-tca: ah nice <codo> charlie-tca: so how do I learn to contribute to such stuffs and help around ? <charlie-tca> UndiFineD: yes, you are right. at-spi <Pendulum> hajour: if you want #ubuntu-speechcontrol, I'd ask about process in #ubuntu-irc (unless someone here knows AlanBell? charlie-tca?) <Pendulum> personally, I wasn't a fan of #ubuntu-accessibility-speechcontrol because it's just soo long <hajour> if i understand it good it was depending to on the accessibility team <charlie-tca> codo: I triage the bugs, try to get them ready for the developer to fix them. <charlie-tca> I don't do any programming, myself. * AlanBell agrees with Pendulum #ubuntu-accessibility-speechcontrol is a bit long <Pendulum> ah, I got confused in there. well, my opinion is that you should go ahead with whatever name you want, my only objection is the length of #ubuntu-accessibility-speechcontrol <codo> charlie-tca: oic. <AlanBell> I would like to see it in the #ubuntu- namespace though, if it is an Ubuntu project <Pendulum> #ubuntu-speechcontrol would work <hajour> thats good for me ubuntu-speechcontrol <charlie-tca> codo: you can look at bugs tagged a11y, that should be almost all the accessibility bugs. <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you know the procedure for getting an ubuntu namespace IRC channel approved? <UndiFineD> AlanBell: Pendulum we have time to make that decision, next meeting would be fine <codo> charlie-tca: ok <Pendulum> by the way, I hope you guys will come talk about speech control at the next meeting! <codo> charlie-tca: thank you. So in case if I have some queries I can ping you etc ? <charlie-tca> yes, feel free to <UndiFineD> absolutely <Pendulum> codo: also, in terms of passive things you probably want to join the ubuntu accessibility mailing lists and the gnome one :) <AlanBell> the procedure for creating new channels is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/CreatingChannels <AlanBell> and naming convention here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelNaming <codo> Pendulum: ok. <Pendulum> hajour: UndiFineD if you decide you want #ubuntu-speechcontrol, I'm happy to talk to the IRC Council in support of that :) <hajour> ok thanks Pendulum :) <Pendulum> also, I've rejoined the ##speechcontrol channel <Pendulum> (I fell out of it in some weird computer and health stuff a few weeks ago) <leoquant> hajour: UndiFineD if you decide you want #ubuntu-speechcontrol, I'm happy to talk to the IRC Council in support of that ã within the set topic a linkage to accessibility? <Pendulum> leoquant: sounds good <hajour> great leoquant <UndiFineD> yes, the topic should be adjusted ;) <Pendulum> btw, one thing I would suggest is that if you are in an ubuntu namespace ultimately, you should have an ubuntu logbot with public logs. I've found public logs to be really useful all over the place :) <UndiFineD> Pendulum: while we understand the take from Ubuntu (CoC) there is much rivalry in this area, and we should hold of the big corp here <leoquant> via craighoward@example.net brad marchall <leoquant> ==>logbot <leoquant> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com <hajour> its very important that this project is and stays open source <UndiFineD> and that means package and license it first <hajour> leoquant, can you pm that things to me.completly lost here in that really much lines <Pendulum> UndiFineD: sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that <UndiFineD> I can explain at some other time, I have a meeting to attend <leoquant> sorry and ok hajour * AlanBell is puzzled too <Pendulum> UndiFineD: no worries. now that I'm mostly actually back around, I should be in better shape to answer :) <hajour> we are afraid big company s use what ubuntu have worked on.then it lose open source <Pendulum> I've never heard that concern when it comes to publicly logging channels before. In fact, in the Ubuntu community I'd guess that 95-100% of the technical channels are logged <hajour> when it is not longer open source they ask money for it to use it.then the main group of people who need it cant longer use it because they have no money for it <Pendulum> the only channels I don't know of being logged within the ubuntu community are ones where people are worried about personal things being discussed (such as Ubuntu Women's concerns about providing a safe space for people who are being harrassed) <leoquant> indeed <hajour> packed means it stays open source if i bin good informed <Pendulum> *nods* <hajour> thats the first goal thought <leoquant> hajour we could encrypt the logs, and even give this channel apassword... <hajour> and we have a very good team now <hajour> thats a good idea leoquant <leoquant> a channel pass/ <Pendulum> I don't know if the IRC Council would be okay with that <hajour> if it are packed its no problem anymore thought? <Pendulum> I think it's kinda either you log or you don't log <Pendulum> in terms of logs that aren't personal logs on people's computers <hajour> advice is very welcome at this part <hajour> its that .... license part what could make us project fail <Pendulum> I don't know that the license bit is threatened by logging, though <leoquant> i agree with Pendulum <Pendulum> and public logs will in fact strengthen ability to show "hey, that came from us" if it were to ever come up <codo> wow too much backlog <codo> to keep track with :) <codo> im not sure where to start :d <Pendulum> I'm also not sure that speech control is something that a lot of commercial companies would be interested in since Windows and MacOS both have their own versions already <codo> yes <codo> and they are not free :) ? <codo> I suppose ? <hajour> we are further then first Pendulum <Pendulum> hajour: *nods* <AlanBell> the GPL is what protects code and keeps it Free <Pendulum> right <hajour> we have now help from someone wo worked with that kind of things 7 years <AlanBell> logging chatter about code is nothing to do with licensing <Pendulum> AlanBell: +1 <AlanBell> the speech control landscape is actually rather complicated in license terms <hajour> thats 100% sure i hope <AlanBell> different things have dependencies with different licenses <AlanBell> you can have free software with a non-free voice file for example <hajour> so loong its not company s like mi so <hajour> wo have info from the project <AlanBell> to be in Ubuntu it generally needs to follow the Debian Free Software Guidelines (although there are exceptions) <leoquant> hajour some "big"compagnies" gave their code away: IBM viavoice afaik their not evil perse <hajour> its the main important thing it is and stays open source <hajour> mm in netherland dislection bad sight program cost 1295 euro <hajour> i never forget that ever <hajour> thats more then a minimum month income <hajour> here <hajour> so important to do it good but also in ubuntu rules <Pendulum> hajour: I definitely think licensing open source is a good plan <hajour> help?this is bothering me al weeks how to do it good <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have any good resources for open source licensing info? <Pendulum> hajour: I can try to help you look at licenses, but I have no idea which would be useful for speech control (although I kinda assume the GPL is likely too restrictive) <JanC> GPL might work for some things but not for others <Pendulum> but I'm happy to at some point go over with you what some of them say and translate from legal-speak into plain english <Pendulum> JanC: do you know of any good resources on open source licensing? <AlanBell> to understand licenses you have to start with the GPL http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html <AlanBell> all the others add and remove bits from that <leoquant> : http://www.opensource.org/licenses/category? <AlanBell> the speech control licensing landscape is *complicated* because it is not a monolithic program that can be built <Pendulum> yeah <leoquant> yep <AlanBell> it will be using other general purpose voice recognition and speech synthesis engines and libraries with different licensing situations <Pendulum> right <Pendulum> most of which I assume require things to stay open source anyway. <JanC> I don't think there is one resource that has all possible info about licensing, I got most of my knowledge from reading lots of discussions about it spread all over the internet... <AlanBell> the chances are that any code written would have to be something like LGPL, possibly with some exception clauses <Pendulum> hajour: it might be useful to start by reading the licenses of the programs you'll be building on top of <AlanBell> I can help advise on the likely licensing implications of certain combinations, but I fear it would end up as a long thread on the debian legal mailing list <AlanBell> which is where simon-listens is stuck, last time I checked <Pendulum> *nods* <Pendulum> I suspect the trick is to read through all the licenses of the base libraries and stuff <Pendulum> and then create a chart <Pendulum> and figure out which have what requirements, etc. <hajour> simon listens is resolved <JanC> it also depends on how thinks are used <AlanBell> excellent news <JanC> things <hajour> its only julius .. (forgot how to write it )now <hajour> bedahr have resolve simons listen <AlanBell> debian bug 596511 <ubot2> Debian bug 596511 in wnpp "ITP: simon -- Open source speech recognition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/596511 <AlanBell> hajour: do you have a link to the resolution, the ITP seems to be open still? <hajour> JackyAlcine knows all of the details he have talked with bedahr.i was half here yesterday.(have a sick child here ) <hajour> sorry i know not yet all <hajour> i just bin here again just a hour have read loads of lines in chat <AlanBell> ok <hajour> and i have not yet read all pff <AlanBell> thats fine <hajour> but that part i had read already <AlanBell> hajour: the licensing issues are really not going to come from people wanting to make stuff proprietary, it is going to be interactions between different free software licenses <AlanBell> which is complicated and frustratingly slow, but not evil, just people wanting to do things right <hajour> o UndiFineD remember something <hajour> rx007 can speak japanese <UndiFineD> we have rx007, who could communicate with the japanese makers of julius <hajour> grrr i was typing already <JanC> maybe the makers of Julius want to change their license a bit to make it less ambiguous? <JanC> as I understand that is a problem? <AlanBell> basically yes <AlanBell> slightly complicated by the fact that simon is a GPLv2 app with julius (BSD 4 clause modified) as a dependency with an exception clause to allow this <UndiFineD> next to that, simon comes with its own version of an updated Julius, with patches. Bedahr tried to get them merged, but there is little to no response to the impressive improvemenets <JanC> looking at the copyright-holders (several universities), re-licensing might be somewhat complicated... <JanC> unless somebody has contacts there <AlanBell> speech research is basically done in three places <AlanBell> MIT (recognition) Edinburgh (synthesis) some japanese uni beginning with N <JanC> Nagoya <AlanBell> and there are some smaller projects like openMary from a German uni <AlanBell> thats the one <codo> wow <codo> I never knew this stuff is haappening :) <codo> wow wow <codo> i seriously hope something happens for deafs eventually <AlanBell> it isn't undergrad stuff, or even a regular regional university postgrad research area <JanC> I don't know if the Belgian university is still working on things (where MBROLA was developed)? <AlanBell> FacultÃ© Polytechnique de Mons <Pendulum> Carnegie Mellon in the US was also working on it at one point (they're the people who did the Sphinx stuff) <JanC> I know some of those people went on to a French speech tech company <AlanBell> s/MIT/Carnegie Mellon/ <AlanBell> CMU is where it is at, not MIT <AlanBell> MBROLA is non-Free <AlanBell> "This synthesizer is provided for free, for non commercial, non military applications only." <AlanBell> and binary only <JanC> I know, but IIRC results from MBROLA can & have been used or something <JanC> voices created with tools that use MBROLA or whatever <AlanBell> yeah, that starts getting really complicated <AlanBell> and leads to debates on whether a voice file is data or complied object code <JanC> it's a bit comparable with fonts or images designed with non-free tools <AlanBell> yes <JanC> you can maybe edit them with free tools, but not in an optimal way <JanC> actually, the company based on MBROLA research is Belgian/French & is the company that made the voices for the Tux Droid: http://www.acapela-group.com/text-speech-contact.html (they still have an office in Mons) <JanC> AlanBell: looking at the HTK license, I guess the main problem is that you can't redistribute it? <AlanBell> yes <AlanBell> and sub-license which is the same thing <codo> so is there a nice doc around for creating coc key ? <codo> anywhere ? <leoquant> : http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/89 <leoquant> screencast team <leoquant> duane hinnen <codo> yaa it is slow <codo> and i have slow internet :D <codo> it hasn;t even loaded for me :) <Pendulum> I"m not sure if it's captioned, either <codo> ok got it :) <codo> Pendulum: yaa someone do it :) <leoquant> i saw it, it works and is outstanding <codo> Pendulum: it doesnt help for hearing impaired :) <codo> leoquant: is it captioned ? <codo> :O <leoquant> i am on three meetings now sorry.... <hajour> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/89 whats the meaning of this link?cant see or hear something on it <leoquant> i can hear duane <leoquant> i can see the pgp coc proces <hajour> strange i hear nothing <leoquant> :/ <hajour> got all volume on max <hajour> the video and my eeepc <hajour> allso no image <leoquant> strange hajour <leoquant> tried it a minute earlier sound and visual <hajour> i really don't see or hear sanything <hajour> black image <hajour> no sound at all <leoquant> mouse on the screen, left button? <leoquant> youtube like <leoquant> codo also problems? <hajour> already done leoquant <hajour> thats on max <leoquant> ok <hajour> no sounds <hajour> and no image <leoquant> sorry to hear <hajour> just reported it sorry <JanC> hajour: you can also download the video on that page <charlie-tca> hm, bar moves across the bottom, but no video or sound here <hajour> same here charlie-tca <JanC> no problem here <JanC> but downloading & playing should work I guess <hajour> i don't need it JanC but for others who do needed it must work good <JanC> hajour: what browser ? <hajour> the one above in page has a moving bar the one below not .boths have no image and no sounds <charlie-tca> Mine is ff3.6 <hajour> Chromium web Browser <JanC> hm, FF 3.6 works here <hajour> beta <charlie-tca> no beta here <charlie-tca> firefox version 3.6.13 <JanC> 3.6.13 too <JanC> it uses HTML5 <video> tags with an embedded flash in case that's not supported <JanC> but Firefox 3.6 supports <video> <JanC> and chromium supports <video> too <charlie-tca> but it still don't work (: <JanC> hm, seems like the video support is somewhat flakey... <JanC> basically, video playing hangs often <JanC> or the streaming stalls, or whatever <codo> hi all <codo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Reviews/GOK ? <codo> isnt the time of meeting wrong ? <codo> can I change it ? <codo> to updated meeting ? <codo> time ? <UndiFineD> codo: wednesday jan 19th 2011 @ 21.00 UTC <UndiFineD> it is on the topic <codo> no i mean on the wiki <AlanBell> thanks codo :) #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-11 <nigelb> Pendulum: still want that conversion? <hajour> good night all :) <codo> hey all :) <Pendulum> hajour: did you ever get a channce to see if http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ works for you visually? <hajour> looking <hajour> not so very bright white and darker bleu .bigger fonts or app to change size <Pendulum> which part needs the darker blue? <Pendulum> (I'm not sure if I can do anything about the font size and there's no way to change the CSS to make it possible to change on the site, unfortuantely. it's the limitations of using a wordpress blog hosted on wordpress) <Pendulum> I'm not sure if I can make the background much darker without making it inaccessible for people who need high-contrast <hajour> app for changing colors <hajour> colours <hajour> xchat have it <hajour> mm <hajour> but its a accessibility site and then not can put a app on for accessibility? <hajour> Pendulum, ^ <Pendulum> hajour: if we were building from scratch on our own server space we could do that, but there are many reasons why it didn't make sense to do so <Pendulum> what should help overall is the fact that the RSS feed is a full article feed so people can stick it into their feed readers <hajour> ok but phillw could make a app for change size fonts. <hajour> on his site <Pendulum> hajour: wordpress.com only lets you use specific templates <hajour> and if i remember it correct Andrew MC to <hajour> then we need to talk to them <AlanBell> I think it looks great, and most people will read it through reader apps or on the planet <AlanBell> high contrast on the body text and changing the font size with ctrl+mousewheel doesn't break the layout <charlie-tca> I zoom the fonts in firefox with Ctrl+ + and it works too <hajour> ok that i do already with font size 16 <hajour> but its good you say so fine by me:) <charlie-tca> That's where I start too. Then I can hit ctrl + about 5 times and everything is good <charlie-tca> which colors where too light or dark? The blue text or the blue background? <hajour> bleu all darker <charlie-tca> both the writing and the background then <charlie-tca> Pendulum: try darkening the text again, and see if it works better <Pendulum> charlie-tca: so that link text? because the rest of it is black <charlie-tca> yes, sorry. The links <charlie-tca> It might be that dark text will read easier. <Pendulum> can you reload? <charlie-tca> hajour: hit F5 or reload a couple of times and see what that did, please? <Pendulum> I could also try changing to a purple or something so that it stands out some <Pendulum> (a dark purple, I mean) <charlie-tca> that would work, too. but I don't know if hajour will be able to distinguish the text then. colors can make it disappear, sometimes <Pendulum> yeah <Pendulum> that's my concern with the darker blue as well <charlie-tca> Readability is good, it just takes a bit to see the links in the text. We can use that if it is better <Pendulum> hajour: what do you think? <hajour> reading back :) <hajour> uh its not changed by me <hajour> i have closed it and make a new tab and put the link on but not changed <charlie-tca> did you reload? It won't work unless you do that. In firefox, hit F5 a few times to make it reload, because it keeps a copy and even opening the new tab won't let it go get it again. <hajour> o i have chromium <charlie-tca> I don't know the key in that. It should be refresh or reload the page <AlanBell> wonder if I can get the ubuntu webfont working on it <hajour> i don't know or i can do firefox also without making my eeepc run stuck or make it real slower <charlie-tca> Try F5 anyway. Google kept lots of the shortcuts from firefox <hajour> trying again sec. <hajour> no changes with chromium <hajour> if i need to use firefox i need to load some things first .but i first ask UndiFineD if it can with out messing my eeepc again <AlanBell> meh, can't. Oh well it will get the Ubuntu font on the planet at least <hajour> installing firefox and cross fingers my eeepc stays good <hajour> still uploading * hajour wipes her forehead <hajour> pff that takes long <hajour> still applying #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-12 <hajour> Pendulum, its still applying firefox my eeepc think it will take a wile.i will tell if i can test it on firefox <Pendulum> hajour: okay, no worries. <hajour> ok :) <AlanBell> hi all <AlanBell> any comments on this design from an accessibility point of view? http://libertus.co.uk:8080 <AlanBell> have already been through some things like high contrast body text and fluid width that allows a wide range of font size changes <charlie-tca> AlanBell: I must be having a bad day. It all seems to work good here <UndiFineD> AlanBell: I have to zoom -- http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/accessibility/Screenshot.png <AlanBell> charlie-tca: you have seen it before, there are changes in the commit logs from your feedback, it is just soon going live so they have asked for further feedback <AlanBell> UndiFineD: sure, that looks fine to me <charlie-tca> AlanBell: glad that one is working so well. It is almost impossible now to navigate and read http://www.ubuntulinux.org <charlie-tca> with the new theme in there <charlie-tca> apparently, that website theme just gets worse <AlanBell> yeah <codo> charlie-tca: yes. <codo> charlie-tca: I dont like that theme :) <AlanBell> I want to do an even more accessible moin theme <AlanBell> starting with http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/SimpleMente and adding Ubuntu branding <AlanBell> If I can get agreement that such a thing would be allowed on the main Ubuntu wiki <AlanBell> which I am struggling with <charlie-tca> At least you no longer have to think about zooming it. The words that are missing won't be there anyway <codo> the present wiki theme is just ugly <charlie-tca> +1 <AlanBell> codo: I have merge requests that would un-break lots of it <charlie-tca> codo: maybe you and AlanBell can do something there... :-) <charlie-tca> codo: you are a c++ coder? <AlanBell> it is a non-technical problem <charlie-tca> Yeah, but I was thinking festival could use help <codo> charlie-tca: I do C but I can understand C++ <codo> AlanBell: and charlie-tca I will need to go around how to hack them etc :) <charlie-tca> Oh, I don't think that is quite the same <codo> but ys since it is non technical problem it should be easy :) <codo> *yes <AlanBell> hah, no! <charlie-tca> But the festival project is done by a university, and bug fixes are hard to come by <AlanBell> technical problems are easy peasy <codo> ah give me link <codo> I will poke around the TODO <AlanBell> people problems make my brain spin <codo> etc <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/festival <codo> okay. one min <charlie-tca> The website starts at http://fextvox.org/festival <charlie-tca> They link to a UK homepage that fails to load <codo> charlie-tca: so which is the bug you guys were talking about ? <charlie-tca> The website? It is different <charlie-tca> I gave up filing those website bugs now. They refuse to fix them anyway and complain if you file them. <codo> ah. <charlie-tca> Festival is a different project. It is speech synthesis <codo> ah ok I got confused there :) <charlie-tca> Sorry... Sometimes these conversations do that <codo> ah no probs <codo> would love to start in something easier <codo> and contribute to bug fixing in c etc. <charlie-tca> okay. I will keep looking for something then <codo> charlie-tca: so umm I will copy festival code <codo> and hack around it :P <codo> and see if i can fix some bugs <codo> it is in C ? <charlie-tca> It is written originally in C++ <codo> ah ok <codo> ya should be fine. <codo> though why do lots of people do C++ :O <codo> :P <codo> C is easier :D <charlie-tca> It was popular once upon a time, I think <charlie-tca> Ubuntu uses python a lot <codo> charlie-tca: ah ok are they converting it to C ? <codo> now ? <charlie-tca> Not to my knowledge they aren't. They are a university, so maybe they are using students learning programming to work on it? <codo> charlie-tca: yeah.ok . <codo> python is a popular language among all college grads. <codo> I understand now. <codo> charlie-tca: ok am doing bzr branch lp:ubuntu/festival now <AlanBell> MichelleQ: seen http://enabledbydesign.org/ <MichelleQ> no, I hadn't, but I know someone who would loooove the one-hand hair tie #ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-17 <hajour> hai erkan:) <erkan^> hey hajour <hajour> i already thought i know your name erkan^ :) <erkan^> cool that you don't forget my name :p <erkan^> are you first time here, hajour ? <hajour> no i already are here longer <hajour> hehe <erkan^> ow i didn 't see that you are here first <hajour> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour/accesibility <hajour> this team was the reason i came on ubuntu <hajour> on 30 nov 2010 <hajour> well i was a couple of days not here on chat <erkan^> I go see <hajour> had some problems with my eeepc <erkan^> I am curious for this URL <erkan^> for = about <hajour> hehe ok <erkan^> eeepc ? what is that? <hajour> little laptop/notebook <hajour> 10 inch screen <hajour> 1gb <erkan^> that is netbook (-: <erkan^> i have read your profile <erkan^> can you sign languag e? <hajour> ye well its a need solution :( my old pc is dead <hajour> no it was a advice after research <hajour> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour <hajour> this is me <erkan^> OW OK <erkan^> oeps <erkan^> sorry for caps <erkan^> i go read <hajour> hehe np <erkan^> have you one eye blind? <erkan^> your have a good profile i see hajour <hajour> yes i am blind on 1 eye <hajour> and other is also not very good <erkan^> have you four children when i understand good? <hajour> yes <hajour> and thank you:) <erkan^> i am deaf and impaired <erkan^> you're weclome <hajour> wauw how you work on the pc? <erkan^> do you know about "Retinitis Pigmentosa (or Syndrome Usher)? I can work normal on the pc <hajour> i have thinking on a alfabet that works on sound vibration <hajour> no i never heard from <hajour> i know because i have a friend wo is deaf <hajour> that people who cant hear <erkan^> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndroom_van_Usher <hajour> they can feel sound <erkan^> yes i can feel sound too <hajour> so i thought on a serial tones from sounds what have different vibration for to use for a vibration alfabet <hajour> send true a kind of headset <erkan^> ok, but I don't know very much about sounds <hajour> well i know someone who knows from sounds <hajour> but for to make it only someone who i deaf can test and help to make something like that <erkan^> brrrr i don't like loverboy, hajour :S <hajour> same here <hajour> if i notice he is 1 he will know who i am <erkan^> ow <hajour> enough say in here <hajour> i sure know ubuntu thinks also about such people <erkan^> nobody is safe )-: <hajour> we got ubuntu <hajour> dont worry erkan^ i keep a eye on that guy from no on <hajour> if you want you may open a pm with me and then ping me when you dont feel safe.then i come right away <hajour> erkan^, ^^ <erkan^> i was picked a coffee <hajour> :) <bryan886> hello? <bryan886> i have a question if anyones up for it? <charlie-tca> !ask <ubot2> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) <bryan886> yeah it just seemed quiet, anyways i was wondering if there's a way to turn off the language bar(?) it's a floating little toolbar with a keyboard symbol and displays the input method being used <charlie-tca> I have not seen it <charlie-tca> There is no Quit in the corner <bryan886> i think it's because i have japanese installed as an input method <charlie-tca> I don't get that with korean and english <charlie-tca> what application is open? <bryan886> no quit it looks like a floating toolbar like in windows with a handle to drag it around the options if you right click on the icon are the two input methods and turn off input method <bryan886> right now i have irc,
{'channel': 'ubuntu-accessibility', 'month': 1}