#ubuntu-nz 2011-09-01 <hads> Trying out this mysterious ScriptNo extension as an alternative. Thanks karora <ojwb> it doesn't look very actively developed any more - last update was nearly a week ago... <karora> ojwb: ZOMG! A week?! :-) <ajmitch> that's like 3 chrome releases worth :) <ojwb> karora: if you look at the changelog, prior to that it was unusual not to have an update every day <ojwb> so that would be like it being more than a decade since the last debian release <karora> Heh. <karora> Except that I don't expect Debian to go on a holiday to some unconnected isle. <karora> Not that that wouldn't be interesting... <karora> I'm really pleased with ScriptNo - it has some useful features over NoSript, which I've used for years. <hads> I set it to default allow and somehow it magically blocks Google Analytics anyway, which is neat but confusing. <ibeardslee> mwhudson: Are you having a twitter conversation with yourself? <mwhudson> ibeardslee: yes <hads> I've bounced around over the last couple days. Currently running Xubuntu. <chilts> morning <mwhudson_> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> sometimes the wikipedia crowd makes the open source crowd look sane and well balanced... <chilts> in fighting? <mwhudson> and then there's wikileaks... <snail> mwhudson: wikipedia and wikileaks share a syllable in the name and little else <snail> chilts: see random stuff at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User_talk:Stuartyeates <snail> "A Marsupial mole for you!" ---- you have to ask what some people are smoking... <chilts> hmm, is that page something just you edit, or anyone? it's a bit random :) <chilts> heh, BarnStars, Cookies ... all for you ... reminds me of Flickr with people just making up awards and giving them to all and sundry <snail> chilts: it's the place for random people to communicate with me personally (or with the owner of my accounts, which is what wikipedia sees me as). <snail> chilts: for privacy reasons wikiepedia essentially has no concept of editors as people, only accounts <chilts> I read an article yesterday on the abstraction of users v's accounts v's authentication mechanisms and suchlike <chilts> I have thought about it a lot recently, but that clarified a few things for me <chilts> (sorry, just changing the topic slightly) :) <snail> you know about shibboleth ? https://tuakiri.ac.nz/confluence/display/Tuakiri/Home ? <snail> Sat was in town yesterday, maybe still around today <thumper> morning <chilts> I figure Shibboleth and OpenID are pretty similar, though I don't know the finer details of Shibboleth I must admit <snail> Shibboleth has central trusted authorities who issue ids and certify to some level of trust that people are who they say they are <snail> Shibboleth has some complex stuff around how much of that identity is released to each service though. some services will see users ID only as a random hash; some will see that + an assertion that they're a STUDENT; some will see that + real name; some will see that + email; ... <chilts> sounds complicated :) <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> morning <ojwb> shibboleth seems an odd name for an authentication system, given its origin (which was to distinguish people's nationality by whether they could pronounce that word or not) * chilts wonders what nationality a Scouser, a Geordie and a Cockney would be under that rule :) <snail> ojwb: it's the first recorded instance of ethnic cleansing, a natural enough name for a protocol for educational use... <ojwb> snail: it seems to encourage people to share passwords though <snail> ojwb: how so? <ojwb> well, the password was the same for everyone... <ojwb> i.e. shibboleth pronounced a particular way <snail> point taken <snail> it's actually quite a sane system <ojwb> so not so similar to openid then, eh? <snail> ojwb: i suspect that at the SAML level they're probably identical. at the policy level radically different #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-02 <Atamira> afternoon <ojwb> hmm, so airnz charge $15 per leg for booking online and paying with a credit card, but you can't pay any other way unless you use windows <Atamira> they have other options? <ojwb> Atamira: you can pay by some direct banking think ("poli" or something) but you need some windows app installed it seems <ojwb> s/think/thing/ <ojwb> morning <hads> AirNZ are quite into their fees. <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> sigh, unity has gone a bit weird on me again #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-03 <elky> AirNZ still managed to be in the cheaper range for flying over here with excess baggage when I moved. <hads> I fly Emirates when I get a choice these days. <Atamira> nationally or internationally? <Atamira> wait <Atamira> ignore that..they dont fly locally neway <chilts> must admit I haven't done JetStar yet, but am glad they're here (for the competition) <chilts> internationally I like the S.E. Asian airlines, I always find they're top notch <chilts> Emirates annoyed me when I flew with them (though that was 5 years ago) <hads> Avoid Jetstar <Atamira> emirates annyed me some time ago as well. but i dont really care..as long as it gets me there #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-04 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> beautiful day here <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> only problem is that it's a monday <ibeardslee> Mondays are great, another weekend out of the way and back at work .. yay!! * ajmitch looks for someone in wellington to 'visit' ibeardslee <Atamira> lol <ibeardslee> just get them to leave my ankle alone or I'll really throw a wobbly <Atamira> but ankle biters are the best <ibeardslee> sure, with the right seasoning and slow cooked <Atamira> lol <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <snail> ibeardslee: thatnks for the reminder. i'd completely forgotten <thumper> snail: np #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-05 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning <snail> won't be able to make lunch today, sadly i have a meeting that clashes <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> So I had been trying to upgrade my PC to oneiric on the weekend <ajmitch> everything exploded? <chilts> ibeardslee: you must have been busy if it kept you from realising the weekend finished a day ago :) <ibeardslee> some packages were missing from citylink .. so I thought for shits and giggles to try "Select Best Server" <ibeardslee> mirror.aarnet.edu.au was the best <ibeardslee> TelstraClear are still arse at peering <ajmitch> let me guess, traffic goes to the US & then to australia? <ibeardslee> didn't check that, but you'd think that they could get to an NZ host first <ajmitch> with ipv6 being enabled now, I've noticed some screwy peering <ajmitch> snap are using telstraclear for an upstream for that, from what I can see <ajmitch> I was trying to get to www.debian.org, which is hosted in canberra & I had mtr showing traffic going NZ->US->AU <ibeardslee> chilts: I managed to finish the upgrade last night .. once all the files were available <ibeardslee> although now the PC has some issues with getting the gui going <ajmitch> NZ mirrors seem to have more than their fair share of problems <ibeardslee> ohhh doing a beta install of oneiric <ibeardslee> the install fires up the webcam and asks if you want to take a photo of yourself to use for the login picture <chilts> wonder what happens on a server install ... you get a picture of the rack opposite <chilts> :) <chilts> (assuming the server has a webcam of course, before anyone else points it out) :-p <ajmitch> why you'd do a server install with the desktop cd, I don't know :) <ibeardslee> because you want a gui like every good Windows server has of course <chilts> neither do I :) <ajmitch> ibeardslee: of course... <ibeardslee> nice .. looks like oneiric fixes the problem with the phantom monitor on this laptop <timClicks> morning <ibeardslee> morning timClicks #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-06 <ibeardslee> it's somewhat disturbing to see a bunch of i386 flashing by on the screen when installing/updating a x64 PC <ajmitch> the joys of multiarch * snail imagines server-room security built on a web-cam on every server... <chilts> heh <ajmitch> by the time you get there it's a bit late :) <chilts> if you ever get there <ibeardslee> yay .. https://soniahamilton.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/change-first-day-of-week-in-ubuntus-gnome-calendar/ <chilts> in whatever locale you're in, Monday shouldn't be 2 :( <chilts> not that it probably matters <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning * ajmitch hates seeing that 'no route to host' when trying to ssh to the laptop <ajmitch> & I then of course see that I forgot to plug in the network cable, yay for mornings <hads> heh <hads> Had another new disk installed in server this morning after 75 days, hopefully this one lasts longer. <ajmitch> is that server vibrating a bit much for the disks, or overheating? <Atamira> morning <hads> The last one was replaced as an upgrade rather than a failure, I think it was just a lemon. <hads> Drives running at 26 degrees and previous one lasted over 3 years <hads> 3 failures total in just over 3 years. <ajmitch> right, I thought you'd mentioned them failing a bit more often <hads> Yeah, felt like it but I went back through the history to check. <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> why oh why is this out of stock? when I have some money burning a hole in my pocket .. http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MSUMP #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-07 <hads> Let me help you with that... <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-08 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> i wish this men with odd shaped balls would get done playing <snail> s/this/these/ * ibeardslee wonders what the shape of testicles has to do with anything <ajmitch> snail: it's not like the streets are closed right outside your office, is it? <ajmitch> http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/council-online/webcams/octagon <ajmitch> the building that I'm in is just off the left of the frame <snail> ibeardslee: that's the point, the shape of their balls is about the only thing that hasn't been packaged to advertisers and shoved down our throat every TV ad-break in the last six months <snail> ajmitch: if it were, I'd get some time off <ajmitch> I'm not so lucky :) * ibeardslee has no tv, so has been 'missing out' <ajmitch> I've got a TV, it hasn't been plugged in for a couple of years <ibeardslee> well actually I do have one, but it's used for DVDs .. reception is shite * ajmitch reads news online & still can't avoid the RWC <ajmitch> given that we've built a whole new stadium for it which I can see from the office, it's probably a bit hard to avoid it <chilts> morning <chilts> wow, far too much talk for this early in the morning * chilts hands out slapped wrists <ajmitch> sorry, will shut up now <chilts> nah, it's ok, you can carry on :) <chilts> I was just messin' wit' yer head <ibeardslee> wrists? <chilts> don't you have any? :-p <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> damn, can't get away from RWC even on planet ubuntu #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-11 <Bacta> Enjoying the Rugby? <Bacta> Sup dawg <moose-machine> hi. can anyone help me regarding tethering for my iphone 4 with ubuntu via bluetooth? it was working fine. but has stopped working all of a sudden. <Bacta> Is your connection still active? <moose-machine> it connects well in windows 7 <moose-machine> and via wi-fi on ubuntu <Bacta> hmmmm <Bacta> Don't know sorry <moose-machine> no worries :) thx <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> ibeardslee: thanks for the lift btw <ibeardslee> np <snail> hope you didn't get caught in the hail shower this morning? <ibeardslee> yeah I did .. but I was in the car. Still can't really do Safari Cresent with my ankle <snail> my wife was out walking the dog when it hit... <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <hads> Morning <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> hads: I'm slowly working through that maker project kit .. finding the parts and pricing .. 'fun' <ibeardslee> got to be an easier way #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-12 <hads> ibeardslee: What are you trying to do? <ibeardslee> hads: trying to gather the parts equivilent to http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MSUMP <ibeardslee> although going for the mindkits tutorial packs is another way of getting a variety of parts to play and learn with <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <snail> morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <chilts> MORNING :) * chilts is in a happy mood this morning <chilts> and I'm not sure why ... the grindstone is _still_ there! <ibeardslee> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-13 <ojwb> hmm, is there anything happening for software freedom day in wellington this year? <ojwb> http://softwarefreedomday.org.nz/Wellington is kind of vague, and the feeds seem to have last updated just under a year ago <ibeardslee> ojwb: there was some discussion at the NZOSS agm about what could be done. There was talk of a gathering of some sort .. but not to the same scale as previous years <ajmitch> is it like asking when the ubuntu-nz loco is going to do something? <ojwb> the events the last few years have been pretty substantial <ibeardslee> yeah .. but feel free to step in <ojwb> though I realise it's a significant effort to pull them together <ajmitch> ibeardslee: that requires imagination & some effort <ibeardslee> which I lack to some degree <ajmitch> you're not the only one <ajmitch> if someone does have loco ideas, I'm sure we'd support them :) <ojwb> come on baby, do the loco motion! <ibeardslee> .. .. except ojwb's idea <chilts> lol <karora> Yeah, SFD has had a couple of capable organisers for the last few years, but it does seem to burn them out! <snail> is there a link to how to upgrade a desktop to 11.10 before the official release? I want the graceful upgrade by GUI tools rather than the CD image <snail> d'oh. found it. <ibeardslee> the CD is gui installable <ibeardslee> it'd pick up there are new packages and check to see if you want to upgrade <ajmitch> ibeardslee: isn't that just for the alternate cd? <ibeardslee> don't think so .. I'm sure when I had a oneiric desktop iso for one of the betas it asked me if I wanted to update natty * ajmitch could be wrong, but had thought that only the alternate image contained .debs, which would make upgrading from the desktop image a bit harder <ajmitch> I very rarely see the installer these days * ibeardslee could be wrong as well .. so many isos * karora just downgraded to 11.04... <karora> Well, for Heather's new laptop. <karora> 11.10 just turned into instantly into a whole pile of fail. <ajmitch> what blew up? <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morena <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <thumper> karora: what happened? <karora> The unity-2d thing was just totally useless. <karora> Things were crashing every 20 seconds or so, repeatedly. <ojwb> morning <karora> I had to use the 'nomodeset' option in order to boot, so there was no 3d driver active. <ojwb> karora: my impression was that unity wasn't really ready to be pushed out to the world in 11.10 <karora> It was strange though, even things like icons were missing until I installed some of the icon packages from gnome. <ojwb> you can just uninstall it and get a more normal gnome environment though <karora> I tried using the fglrx drivers and just got a big square piece of screen corruption for a cursor. <ibeardslee> ojwb: 11.04 or 11.10 ? * ojwb sshes in to check <ojwb> oh, 11.04, yeah <ojwb> 11.10 isn't released yet of course <ojwb> sorry for the confusion <ojwb> can you not get normal gnome in 11.10? <ibeardslee> I'm finding that although signs of being incomplete, the 11.10 unity (2d) is behaving fairly well. <ibeardslee> the 'ubuntu standard' has been removed from the default options <ibeardslee> unity is growing on me <ojwb> hmm, I think I might be switching the old machines to debian then <ibeardslee> Mint is another option to consider <ajmitch> removed from default options != removed from archive, afaik <ibeardslee> it uses a bunch of ubuntu repos, but puts a gnome interface on it <ojwb> tbh unity didn't get much of a chance to impress me given it didn't really seem to work <ajmitch> they've apparantly tried to keep the 'classic' interface still working <ojwb> but I'm not sure I want a major change in how my desktop works <ibeardslee> ajmitch: oh, I thought there was a plan to remove it with 11.10 <ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2011-September/012885.html <ojwb> so apparently canonical invested "multiple hours" in keeping it working <ajmitch> one frustrated developer replying to people's misinformation & miscommunication <ojwb> yeah, it just seemed a slightly underwhelming amount of time <ojwb> it is good that they haven't just dropped support for it though <ajmitch> did you expect weeks of work put in to make the non-default desktop work? <ajmitch> this is ubuntu, there are only about 13 weeks from UDS to feature freeze :) <ojwb> well, that's calendar weeks not man weeks <ajmitch> right, and the desktop team is relatively small compared to the team that actually works on unity <ajmitch> it's a bit of an odd split <ojwb> not sure I really expect anything particularly, but I think dropping support would have been a strategic misstep on their part <ajmitch> yeah, I think it would have pissed off a few people to just drop it altogether <ajmitch> I don't know how much love gnome-panel & friends are getting upstream these days <snail> maybe it's part of a sekret plan to drive desktop users back to debian... <ajmitch> where people get to use gnome-shell? <ojwb> it would also seem odd to support KDE and XFCE as choices but not Gnome <chilts> morning :) * thumper laments <thumper> the whole unity in 11.04 thing was very political <thumper> which code shouldn't be <thumper> but often gets caught up with <thumper> I can attest to unity being better in oneiric <thumper> at least on the memory side <thumper> as I've spent most of the last two months fixing memory leaks <thumper> and I've run out of ones to find for now <thumper> as long as no one commits, or does things I didn't think of :) <snail> thumper: the thing is to stop people committing... <thumper> :-) <thumper> I have to say that my initial response to the new alt-tab was WHY? <thumper> but I'm used to it now <thumper> and I kinda like it <thumper> especially when you use it in conjunction with alt-` <ibeardslee> hmm it hides behind my windows <thumper> that has hopefully been fixed now <thumper> it is a compiz bug <ajmitch> thumper: does this mean you get to relax for a month or so if there are no leaks left? :) <thumper> our compiz person is pretty confident with it * ibeardslee just finished updating and rebooting <thumper> ajmitch: no... not yet * ajmitch has his laptop at hom eat the moment upgrading to maverick <thumper> ibeardslee: I'm pretty sure it hasn't been packaged yet <ojwb> are the non-LTS releases essentially to be regarded as "development snapshots" these days? <ajmitch> & maybe I'll upgrade to natty tonight <ibeardslee> thumper: ahh ok <ajmitch> ojwb: I'd hope not <thumper> ojwb: they shouldn't be <ajmitch> much effort does go into making them work still <ajmitch> it's just never enough to make all the bugs disappear :) <thumper> heh, aint that the truth <thumper> although I have to admit that the dx team is getting more time to fix bugs this cycle <ojwb> it does seem there are too many live releases for the man power <thumper> apparently there was no bug fix time last time due to rushing it in <thumper> ojwb: we're growing :) <thumper> which isn't a quick fix <thumper> any strong C++ people looking for work? <ajmitch> I wonder if scott's writeup of his vision for the release cycle will get much discussion at UDS :) <thumper> I'm looking for more people in my TZ :) <thumper> I didn't read it <thumper> care to summarise? <ajmitch> 6-month release cycle is bad due to how canonical's performance bonuses encourage people to get stuff in by feature freeze <ajmitch> his proposal seems to be for more of a rolling release <ajmitch> & that time-based releases shouldn't mean trying to jam as much into each release that's half-done as possible <ojwb> thumper: well, my C++ is good, but I think I'd probably find canonical more frustrating from the inside than the outside <ojwb> not really sure I want a real job either <thumper> ojwb: heh <ajmitch> my c++ skills are poor, as you know :) <mwhudson> my c++ skills have spent at least a decade rusting <thumper> ojwb: what do you do now? <mwhudson> which is quite a frightening thing to realize <thumper> mwhudson: you don't count <ojwb> thumper: xapian stuff <ibeardslee> I never learnt c++ <mwhudson> thumper: heh, why not? :) <ajmitch> mwhudson: you've probably done more than the few weeks I did with it at uni <thumper> mwhudson: unless you want to move to dx? <thumper> mwhudson: I'd have you <mwhudson> thumper: not really, no <thumper> we could brush that rust off <ajmitch> though at one point I did actually do some C++ with Qt for fun <thumper> mwhudson: didn't think so <ajmitch> back in the kde 1.x/2.x days <ibeardslee> thumper: another bunch of updates landed .. seeing the alt-tab seems to work now * ajmitch will probably try & upgrade to oneiric this week to see what's broken <thumper> my freaking touchpad is still broken * ibeardslee was impressed that his graphics tablet 'just works' now <mwhudson> my touchpad doesn't seem to work in natty, but it sucks anyway <mwhudson> (luckily i have a thinkpad i guess) * ajmitch rarely uses a touchpad, it's so annoying <karora> ajmitch: I didn't find so much stuff broken when I upgraded to Oneiric. <karora> It was when I installed it from scratch that everything seemed borked. <ajmitch> I expect that at least a few things will break for me <ibeardslee> I had problems with the upgrade until I removed gdm <ojwb> thumper: I saw this and thought of you: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx <ojwb> or your avatar rather <thumper> ojwb: that link isn't very useful <ojwb> oh sorry: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx?newspaper=the+hutt+news&cid=1829 <thumper> :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-14 <ajmitch> right, laptop upgraded to maverick, so I'm only ~11 months behind now <hads> I bailed on Unity, currently using KDE <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> is the network shite for anyone else this morning? <ajmitch> by 'the network', you mean freenode? <ajmitch> they were upgrading & restarting various servers on freenode over the last half hour <snail> ajmitch: i think everyone and their dogs have networking work scheduled for this morning and I'm seeing the perfect storm here. <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-15 <thumper> afternoon <timClicks> sweet! the ubuntu monospace font looks great <chilts> timClicks: are you using it in your editor already? * chilts is just reading http://design.canonical.com/2010/11/the-monospace-is-coming/ <ojwb> wow, typotastic <chilts> Andale Mono looks quite nice <chilts> I have no idea what Emacs uses, it's the same one it was back in 2000 as far as I can tell <timClicks> chilts: yes, just join the launchpad team as per docs <timClicks> http://design.canonical.com/2011/09/ubuntu-monospace-beta/ <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> there should be a law about it being this bright in the morning when I'm tired <chilts> morning <chilts> I like the fact that the 'l' has a bit on top and bottom that go different ways (rather than having it go both ways at the bottom) <chilts> it makes it easier to see from '1' <ajmitch> looking at this new font? * ajmitch wonders if he has access to the ppa already <Atamira> morning * ajmitch just found a good reason to go to LCA in ballarat next year, there's a beer festival there on the saturday after LCA :) <chilts> heh <ibeardslee> yeap <ibeardslee> there has been a bit of .. "a ticket to the festival would be great in the loot bag", "do they know a bunch of geeks are in town, should the LCA organisers arrange a discount" et etc <Atamira> im away for the weekend <Atamira> have a great open software day whoevers going <hads> That makes me wish I was going even more. <hads> Sadly, not sure if I can make it this year, which would be the second in a row. * ibeardslee is presenting this year <ajmitch> sysadmin miniconf? <ajmitch> or the main conference as well? <ibeardslee> just the main <ajmitch> nice, what are you talking on? <ibeardslee> https://linux.conf.au/schedule/55/view_talk?day=tuesday <ajmitch> looks interesting * ajmitch is hoping to be able to get to LCA again #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-16 * hads will have a 3ish week old baby <hads> Not sure if I can swing leaving then. <ibeardslee> not even tempted to "but but I had it all booked before then" ? <ojwb> hmm, did the earth move for you? <mwhudson> yeah <ojwb> felt like it might have been a small (or distant) quake, but my partner wondered if she had felt one too <mwhudson> well, not me, but a few people <ojwb> nothing on geonet yet <mwhudson> some stuff on the shaking map on the front page <ojwb> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums/ shows something too <mwhudson> but not http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums/wel-drum.html (yet?) <mwhudson> http://twitter.com/#!/Wright_Now/status/114572148185645056 <ojwb> maybe they don't update at exactly the same time <ojwb> now showing on the wel-drum <mwhudson> yeah <mwhudson> i wonder if gns know an earthquake has happened when all of the sysadmins pagers light up? <ojwb> there's some sort of automatic paging AIUI <ojwb> jenny's at GNS, but not in the geonet bit <mwhudson> yeah, something like that <ojwb> apparently there's on guy who always seems to have the pager when there's a big one out of hours * ibeardslee was taking the stairs rather than the lift for the next 1/2 hour or so #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-18 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> as of today, I've been blogging in various places for a decade <chilts> snail: happy bloggin birthday <chilts> as of next Feb, I'll have had chilts.org for 10 years :) * ajmitch has never really been that interested in blogging * ibeardslee has tried on a number of occasions .. mainly as a way to find better ways to get stuff out of my head and onto 'paper' <mwhudson> morning * mwhudson is a natural at not blogging <snail> people may or may not be interested in http://www.scmagazine.com.au/News/272215,millions-of-student-exams-tests-and-data-exposed.aspx <snail> looks like time to upgrade to moodle <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-19 <hads> Just got notification of a dispute from the DNC. Will be interesting to see what their decision is. <chilts> does it involve a domain we know or would recognise? <hads> gigaset.co.nz which I registered to point to nicegear since we sell gigaset phones <chilts> and is it gigaset who are contesting it? or someone else? <hads> Yeah, gigaset <chilts> if it was them, surely they'd have talked to you first <chilts> wow <hads> They did, I offered to give them the domain for a link on the resellers page. <chilts> :) <snail> that seems like an adversarial way of doing business <hads> Indeed. <hads> I quite like the disputes resolution service, I don't have to do anything. <chilts> so they just decide without any input? <hads> I can choose to submit a response and go to mediation, or, if I don't, it gets given to an independant expert who decides. The complainant has to prove that the registration is unfair. <chilts> sounds like you've been through a few of these! :) <hads> Nope, never. Just read up on it. <chilts> ah well, sounds interesting either way <hads> Yeah, very. <hads> http://dnc.org.nz/story/drs-home if you're interested, pretty straight forward really. <snail> i guess everyone has seen http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/5645891/Catalyst-IT-wins-contract-for-South-China-Morning-Post <ajmitch> nope, hadn't seen it <chilts> saw that in the Business section of the Dom this morning <ajmitch> looks like good news though <chilts> they're probably going to use Drupal ... which is interesting <snail> drupal appears to be the way of the future <snail> i'm seriously thinking of acquiring some skills in that direction myself <snail> basically to work on the TEI-drupal intergration <ibeardslee> morning <Bacta> Hai <snail> morning <snail> morning Bacta, are you new? I don't recognise the nick... <Bacta> I'm a bit of an old timer snail, I've been around since 06 <Bacta> You? <snail> I'm a regular here and used to be a regular at wlug <snail> ubuntu is the latest in a chain of POSIXs for me <Bacta> Wellington Linux User Group? <ibeardslee> wlug generally refers to the Waikato Linux Users Group <ibeardslee> WellyLUG is the Wellington lot <Bacta> Ah gotya <ibeardslee> not sure I really think much of spring weather <Bacta> Come to Wellington <Bacta> It's warm here * ibeardslee is in Wellington .. looking outside at the dark and rain <Bacta> Oh you're right :( <Bacta> What part of Wellington you in ? <ibeardslee> currently in the city <Bacta> I'm out in the eastern suburbs <Bacta> Have you been to WellyLUG? <ibeardslee> when it was running <Bacta> I might just stick with NZPUG <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <snail> is "eastern suburbs" near the airport, near eastborne or near wainuiomata? I can never tell... <ibeardslee> I think it refers to the Miramar peninsular area <ibeardslee> eastbourne, wainui is part the hutt city area <ojwb> morning <ojwb> hmm, smoke alarm plaintively bleeping at me <ojwb> slightly surprised to discover it has an asda smartprice battery in <mwhudson> morning <chilts> ojwb: sounds like it needs a change :) <chilts> you've been here a while after all <ojwb> the date on it is 11-2006 <ojwb> I suspect it was a new one which got shipped over in a box of stuff <chilts> wowser, that's impressive <chilts> ah <chilts> do you check them every time the clocks change? <ajmitch> people do that? :) <chilts> they're meant to <chilts> :) <ojwb> not sure I'm quite that rigourous <chilts> I'm gonna start this weekend - yay! :) <ojwb> but it was bleeping, so clearly not completely flat <chilts> and probably check the emergency kit at the same time <chilts> (once I have one) :D * ajmitch didn't even realiase that NZDT started this weekend <ibeardslee> wha? <ojwb> i knew it must be coming up <chilts> I hope so, otherwise I've been looking forward to the wrong weekend :) <ajmitch> "It begins again on Sunday 25 September 2011 (when clocks go forward one hour) <ajmitch> " <ibeardslee> oh starts this coming weekend <chilts> heh, I said that earlier :) <ajmitch> yeah, your comments about it made me look it up :) <chilts> can't wait to go home in the light next week <chilts> I wonder how dark it'll be when I get up though <ajmitch> you leave work fairly late? <ibeardslee> never quite understood that whole "spring forward, autumn back" <ajmitch> it means I need to get up even earlier on sunday morning <chilts> not particularly so, but I have a long train journey home ... so I mean when I get home rather than when I leave work :) <ojwb> ibeardslee: well, you wouldn't - it's the other way round here <chilts> ibeardslee: think of it as "spring forward, _fall_ back" <chilts> it's a North American saying <ibeardslee> sigh .. .. you were all supposed to laugh at my funny <chilts> ah, sorry <chilts> you should have put a smiley on there :) <chilts> maybe it's still too early for me this morning - I do feel tired still <chilts> I should go back to bed * ojwb smiled at it <ibeardslee> anyway .. thinking of the suck of getting up in the dark again, and missing out on the sun on the way home <ojwb> you should work from home <ojwb> then you can get up in the light and finish work in the dark year round <ibeardslee> I've tried that when I'm sort of crook .. but always feel guilty about pushing the cat off my lap <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-20 <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <Atamira> good morning <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> how was the SF day? did anyone go? <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> anyone know what cloud tech Ubuntu will have when 12.04 LTS rolls around? <mwhudson> ibeardslee: do you mean "openstack or eucalyptus"? <ibeardslee> yeah <mwhudson> i think both of those #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-21 <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> morning <snail> ibeardslee: morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <ojwb> morning <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-22 <chilts> mornign <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> ha beat you <chilts> :) <chilts> not in my window you didn't :-p <ibeardslee> 08:12 < chilts> mornign <ibeardslee> 08:12 < ibeardslee> morning <chilts> wow, we were a chatty lot yesterday <chilts> 20:12:55 < chilts> mornign <chilts> 20:12:59 < ibeardslee> morning <chilts> 4 seconds quicker :) <ibeardslee> but I spelt it right ;) <chilts> though I did spell 'morning' incorrectly, so my entry is obviously wrong :) <chilts> indeed <chilts> you beat me that time too <chilts> ah well ... maybe I should just go home * ibeardslee note his one win for the day <ibeardslee> bugger <chilts> I should have posted when I was on the train earlier ... then you wouldn't have beaten me :) * ibeardslee notes his one win for the day <chilts> heh <chilts> wait ... what you pasted from your window shows that I beat you!!! <ibeardslee> you beat me to 'mornign' .. .. I beat you to 'morning' <chilts> ok, I concede :) * ibeardslee regresses to a 5yo <chilts> heh <chilts> in other news, what's happening in Ubuntu land these days ... I only seem to catch up every 2 years when LTS comes out :) <ibeardslee> the oneiric beta seems to be coming along nicely <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> although it does seem to be a bit more like that 'saying' .. Ubuntu, that ancient African word meaning "Can't install Debian" <ibeardslee> as it seems to be less tools available by default to tweak the system <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <hads> Morning <hads> Xen hypervisor has been re-introduced to Ubuntu Server. #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-23 <ibeardslee> oh .. so it seems that Beta 2 is ready to go #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-25 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <chilts> and what a lovely one it is (apart from all the traffic, cops, ambulances and tailbacks) <thumper> morning <chilts> I need to write more Javascript and more jQuery plugins * chilts throws his thoughts out there #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-26 <mwhudson> "morning" <ajmitch> almost... <mwhudson> would have been closer 48 hours ago i guess <mwhudson> huh * mwhudson wonders if he wants to have amazon sell ec2 at him for two hours in exchange for food <ojwb> mwhudson: oh, I missed that there was food involved... <mwhudson> ojwb: ah, maybe i just assumed <ojwb> though it's probably not worth the journey in in my case anyway <ojwb> I doubt the content is interesting to me <mwhudson> yeah me too <ajmitch> some amazon-sponsored event in wellington? <ojwb> barely even that - some marketting thing <ojwb> http://www.leadgenome.com/aws/apac-seminars/newzealand/ <ojwb> also in auckland, should anyone actually be interested <ojwb> "Who should attend: Business and technical decision makers of enterprises, start-ups and SMBs." <ibeardslee> heh .. so "anyone we think might buy stuff off us" ? <ojwb> I think they must have the addresses swapped, unless there's a majestic centre on willis st in auckland <ojwb> which would seem quite a coincidence <ojwb> ibeardslee: pretty much <ojwb> hmm, it seems there's a Microsoft Office Pro Plus <ojwb> I wonder if they realise that's a brand of pep pills, at least in the UK <mwhudson> :) * chilts is going to the Amazon thing in Wellington :) <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-27 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> looks like a nice day up this way <ibeardslee> looking nice so far down here <Atamira> not bad for midweek <chilts> morning <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> it'd be nice if I could see something on my screen <Atamira> put your glasses on <ajmitch> it's more that the monitors face the window <ajmitch> & it's really nice & sunny outside <Atamira> ahh. thats a pain * ajmitch wonders why his google+ stream is empty now :) <ojwb> ajmitch: probably some new social networking site is where the action is now <ajmitch> people are just so fickle <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> oh yes, morning <snail> just #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-28 <locodir-user> Hello, I am new to Ubuntu. I have a netbook with a 500 GB hard drive and I am interested in setting up a small partition to install Ubuntu server to start experimenting with server products. I have Ubuntu desktop installed within Win 7 using Wubi. Can I use Wubi to set up a small installation of Ubuntu server? Or do I need to use Ubuntu server to set up a partition on my hard drive? <locodir-user> One note, I have already used Wubi to install Ubuntu desktop. Works nicely with this new netbook. Did not work with old 32bit laptop circa 2003. <ibeardslee> I'd suggest installing virtual box an then installing your ubuntu server in that. <ibeardslee> that means that you can access the server from the other environment (be it Windows or Ubuntu) <ibeardslee> installing it via wubi means that your workstation would boot into Windows, Ubuntu Desktop or Ubuntu Server. <ibeardslee> And generally a server is 'useless' unless it has something connecting to it ;) <locodir-user> I am sorry I am new to this. What do you mean by "something connecting to it"? I would have the internet connecting to it? Cheers <ojwb> but only when you aren't running one of your desktop OSes on the machine <snail> locodir-user: usually a sever has client connected to it <snail> usually a file server is useless without another machine to access those files, for example <locodir-user> But could I not access the files using a second machine from home? <locodir-user> Could I not boot up Ubuntu server on one machine and access files over the internet from another machine, say a Mac? <snail> locodir-user: yes, but you've not yet mentioned any second machine... <ojwb> you could, but it's a lot more convenient not to have to shutdown the server each time you want to run a desktop on the netbook <ojwb> at least I've never found dual boot worked well for me in the past <ojwb> also if you run it as a VM you can easily snapshot it and experiment with stuff knowing you can restore the snapshot trivially if you want to <ojwb> or clone it <locodir-user> so i can run virtual box from within Ubuntu desktop? <ojwb> yes, or on windows <ojwb> not sure if you can sanely have the same VMs available from both <locodir-user> I guess then since I have a mac and a Win 7 netbook both connected to the internet and Ubuntu desktop installed via Wubi on the second I can just install virtual box within the Ubuntu desktop and install Ubuntu server within that. That would make sense. Then I can observe what is going on. Thanks <ojwb> probably, unless there's an issue running virtualbox inside wubi <ojwb> I know nothing about how wubi works so not sure about that <chilts> morning * chilts beats ibeardslee :) <ibeardslee> damn .. should have sat down and logged in before getting breakfast <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <snail> morning <snail> ibeardslee: is your ankle still not good? seems like forever since i saw you on the bus... <ajmitch> morning <hads> Morning <ibeardslee> snail: yeah still hobbling around <ibeardslee> just back from physio, seems to be feeling betterer <snail> sounds painful <ibeardslee> not a gentle back massage anyway <Atamira> i could do with a gentle back massage <ojwb> morning <mwhudson> morning * mwhudson scrapes in #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-29 <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> hah beat chilts <snail> morning <ojwb> morning <ajmitch_> morning <thumper> morning <Atamira> morning <ojwb> when they say "3 years on desktop" and "5 years on server" for LTS releases, what does that actually mean? <ojwb> is it that desktop-related packages in main only get 3 years? #ubuntu-nz 2011-09-30 <ajmitch> yes <ojwb> thanks <ajmitch> there's a defined set of packages that make up the desktop seed, I can't remember exactly where the info is about desktop vs server support, but it's out there :) <ojwb> so is it actually packages which are installed by default rather than those in main? <ojwb> it's almost like this 5 year figure is mostly marketting smoke and mirrors <ajmitch> both desktop & server packages are in main, the server subset is what gets 5 years support <ojwb> but what's the server subset? <ojwb> main - (desktop seed)? <ojwb> + (server seed) I guess <ajmitch> more likely to be the server seed, rather than all of main <ajmitch> but the server seed is more than what's installed by default, obviously <ojwb> oh, is this what goes on the CD? <ajmitch> more or less <ojwb> hmm https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement doesn't list a server seed <ojwb> i guess it's probably something like minimal + standard + supported <ajmitch> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.lucid/ has all the seeds for lucid <ajmitch> server+supported, I think <ajmitch> server-ship.seed looks to be what goes onto the cd <ojwb> the server seed is tiny! <ojwb> supported has stuff like thunderbird though, which must be desktop <ojwb> ah the wiki page explains more <ojwb> and "Ubuntu Server LTS [...] is defined as the union of the server-ship and supported-server seeds" <ajmitch> right, server-ship isn't as tiny as server <ajmitch> I'm sure I saw a list of packages generated from this which said 3 vs 5y support * ojwb was just wonder if he cared enough to write such a script <ojwb> but for now I've just generated a list of what we use which isn't in main at all <ajmitch> well, looks like there is 'ubuntu-support-status' <ajmitch> pity it seems to be broken on my lucid desktop <ojwb> and on natty it seems <ojwb> "Exception: No date tag found" <ajmitch> but what it's actually doing is looking at the package lists <ajmitch> in /var/lib/apt/lists/nz.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_lucid_main_binary-amd64_Packages <ajmitch> packages have got a Supported: property <ojwb> ah yes <ojwb> sadly that doesn't show up in apt-cache show <ajmitch> you could use it with grep-dctrl <ojwb> so something like: cat /var/lib/apt/lists/*_binary-i386_Packages| grep-dctrl -FSupported -PX --pattern 5y -sPackage <ajmitch> something like that I guess :) <chilts> afternoon <locodir-user> Hello?... <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2012-09-01 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> tho its a sunday #ubuntu-nz 2012-09-02 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <hads> morning <ibeardslee> kiwipycon go well? <ajmitch> yeah I think it went pretty well <hads> Anyone need a Viewsonic 22" 1080p monitor? * kcj raises hand <kcj> Are you giving it away? <hads> Negative. <kcj> Ah. <ibeardslee> need, no. Hmm that could be handy, yes. ;) <ajmitch> hads: somehow I don't have room for another monitor anymore :) <hads> heh not suprised :) <hads> This is a follow on from mine, monitors got shuffled around the house and this one ended up unused. <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> what a wet day * ibeardslee wonders of the sanity of having a cron job that swapoffs and then swapons <chilts> ibeardslee: I've never used swapon/swapoff - sounds like a Karate Kid thing <chilts> maybe I should read up and see if it ever makes sense <chilts> and good morning <ibeardslee> occasionally I notice that I'm using swap .. but can't really see why I should be .. especially logging in first thing on a Monday (even of the PC was on, but logged out, over the weekend). <kcj> ibeardslee: Can't you just adjust your swappiness? <ibeardslee> kcj: yeah, probably could do that as well/instead. <ibeardslee> swapoff/swapon just gets rid of swap and starts fresh. Don't normally get swap being used in any great depth for extended periods of time <ibeardslee> the swapoff/swapon just forces everything out of swap that thinks it wanted to hang around #ubuntu-nz 2012-09-03 <robert_ancell> Anyone know someone in NZ who'd be interested in trading a Nokia N9 (unopened, black 16GB) for a Galaxy Nexus? <ibeardslee> if I had a Nokia N9, yes I would be ;) <mwhudson> ibeardslee: why have swap enabled at all? <ibeardslee> mwhudson: that is also a question I ponder on. <mwhudson> i seem to be using about 500 megs of 8 gigs of swap, no clue why <mwhudson> doesn <mwhudson> doesn't really seem to be affecting my life though :) <snail> swapon/swapoff can be useful if you have overnight maintenance tasks that take up stupid amounts of memory <ibeardslee> ajmitch: what was the feedback like from PyCon about your UltraLap? <lunchbox> hey <chilts> ojwb: welcome back <chilts> how was your caving/adventuring/etc? <ojwb> chilts: pretty good <chilts> glad to be back? <lunchbox> you went cave hunting? <lunchbox> that sounds great <lunchbox> did you find any rocks/minerals? :D <ojwb> yeah, it's certainly good to be back <lunchbox> we planted 200,000 tulips yesterday <chilts> that's a lot of tulips :) <lunchbox> thats nothing <lunchbox> we hav eover 4.5 million tulips <lunchbox> http://imgur.com/a/ZggQE#0 <lunchbox> pics from the gardens <chilts> where do you work? <chilts> that's pretty cool (and very colourful) <lunchbox> thanks. <lunchbox> I'm a VC. <lunchbox> The gardens are near Lake Hawea <chilts> nice <chilts> I have a great picture of Lake Hawea from my trip here in 1998 <chilts> very mirror like :) <lunchbox> We have just over 6500 hectares here <lunchbox> 35 hectares just of tulips <chilts> that'd be just lovely, I'll have to come visit sometime <lunchbox> let me know if you decide to come <lunchbox> most welcome of course <chilts> :) <ojwb> morning <ajmitch> morning <lunchbox> morning ojwb / ajmitch <ibeardslee> morning <lunchbox> i just took a picture of my pet ghost <lunchbox> https://p.twimg.com/AlwrKSxCEAAafO9.jpg:large <mwhudson> morning <lunchbox> morning mwhudson <ibeardslee> is that running Ubuntu? <lunchbox> nope <lunchbox> how do i do that? <Atamira> morning <lunchbox> morning Atamira <ibeardslee> lunchbox: Dunno, I thought maybe that was why you were showing an ubuntu itc channel <lunchbox> :P <lunchbox> its not, unfortunately. <lunchbox> let me know in advance the next time you're here <lunchbox> alwaays happy to show the area to people from nz <ibeardslee> http://no.softwarepatents.org.nz/ <lunchbox> description? <lunchbox> obviously cant follow every link posted. <ojwb> the domain name pretty much describes it... <ibeardslee> there aren't many non-ubuntu/software links about <ibeardslee> occasionally get unrelated rubbish about cars ;) <lunchbox> :/ <lunchbox> I'll sign it <chilts> morning <ojwb> hi chilts <ajmitch> /win 62 <thumper> morning <lunchbox> morning <hads> ajmitch: Many windows. <ajmitch> hads: yeah, I closed a few when I had to restart my vps #ubuntu-nz 2012-09-04 <ajmitch> ibeardslee: do you have grub visible at all during boot on your ultralap? also, which kernel version was installed with yours? <ibeardslee> it came with a 3.3 installed from a PPA <ibeardslee> I removed that and went to the default Precise kernel <ibeardslee> no I don't see the grub menu * ajmitch has 3.3.6 <ajmitch> tempted to go to the quantal backported kernel+X stack <ibeardslee> prob from the PPA (assuming you are running the default install from ZaReason) <ajmitch> yes, some interesting PPA <ibeardslee> when mine arrives I'll go straight to Quantal (at whatever state it is in) <ajmitch> I'd trust the backported quantal kernel a bit more, and can get a bit more support with that :) <ajmitch> though I've heard thumper having a few problems with intel graphics on quantal <ibeardslee> I'd want to thrash it and help do what I can to get it right <ajmitch> right, I've got my desktop on quantal now <ajmitch> have only had the laptop a couple of day so far though :) <thumper> 'sup? <ajmitch> thumper: still having those intel graphics issues? <thumper> not tried rebooting my old laptop for a while <ajmitch> just debating whether to upgrade to quantal on new laptop <thumper> not since the dist-upgrade this morning <thumper> ajmitch: if it is modern intel graphics, you probably wont have a problem <thumper> mine is gm45 <thumper> *probably* <ajmitch> ivy bridge, so hd4000 <thumper> I've kept mine on precise so far <thumper> will run a quantal vm <ajmitch> what does your new monster have? <thumper> once I figure all that out <thumper> ivy bridge <thumper> I stuck with intel graphics <thumper> so I didn't need a massive power brick <thumper> like thomi's <thumper> and I don't play games <thumper> so don't need massive power there <thomi> :-/ * ajmitch has nvidia graphics in new desktop, recent drivers still have a few issues with X freezing for several seconds at a time, or just locking up altogether :( <ajmitch> hopefully they'll sort ouf the nvidia driver problems, but I'm not optimistic <ajmitch> thumper: I think you need to bring your new laptop along tonight to show it off <thumper> hmm... nah <thumper> :) <thumper> although did install the presenter console for open office <thumper> tried to work out what the annoying bugs were that I kept seeing at the conference <ajmitch> with fullscreen & multi-monitor? <thumper> yeah <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <lifeless> o/ <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> morning <ojwb> any recommendations for an NZ insurance broker to try for house insurance? * ibeardslee uses AA <ibeardslee> house/contents/car <ojwb> not tried them yet, but the quote we got from AMI was daft. Half the house is pre-1920s which is probably unusual, so I wondered if a broker was worth a try <hads> No experience with brokers, I think most people go direct. #ubuntu-nz 2012-09-05 <hads> ajmitch: Interesting blog post on the Korean monitors with an EDID file; http://www.overclock.net/a/sound-quieter-in-linux-than-windows-2560x1440-27-korean-display-not-working-the-problems-i-encountered-and-their-solution <hads> I changed motherboards and my IgnoreEDID line stopped working for some reason. Using the EDID data linked from there sorted it. <ajmitch> to be honest I haven't plugged that monitor into the new desktop because of various cables & cords,
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