#ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-02 <dpm> good morning everyone <noodles775> Morning dpm :) <dpm> hey noodles775 :) <jalcine> Morning dpm :D <dpm> morning jalcine :) <dpm> and a happy new year to everyone <jalcine> \o/ <ajmitch> hi <jalcine> morning ajmitch * jalcine thinks it's the "hello" hour :P <dpm> good morning mvo, and a happy new year :) <mvo> hey dpm! good morning and happy new year to you as well :) <dpm> ;) <jo-erlend> happy new year, yes! :) <jo-erlend> this ought to be a good one too! <jo-erlend> I'm very interested in 12.04. If, by necessity, we get updates for Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash, Unity, etc.. I think maybe I'll be able to stick to it for quite a while. I always say that, though. :) <dpm> hey jo-erlend ;) <jo-erlend> hey :) <ajmitch> I thought the openid & permissions issues had been fixed for the arb access to myapps * ajmitch goes to find or file another bug <noodles775> ajmitch: yes, it was fixed in the code, but there were a bunch of old apps which needed to be updated manually. <ajmitch> the one I'm looking at (https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/462/) was submitted < 3 weeks ago * noodles775 checks <ajmitch> thanks <noodles775> ajmitch: So I can see the previous upload which was made public at: <noodles775> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/site_media/arb/packages/2011/12/ubuntu-tweak_0.6.0-020111219bzr1651oneiric1.tar.gz <noodles775> but it looks like a new version was uploaded, and is indeed in the private area. I'll find out why and see if it's a bug (which it seems to be - perhaps updated packages going to the wrong place, but I'll verify) <ajmitch> ok <ajmitch> another thing that I didn't expect - hitting 'ask for more information' on a submission makes it disappear from the list that I can see <noodles775> Yes - it takes it out of the review queue atm... we should add a separate list of apps below that are waiting for info from devs (or similar). What would work best for you? (even better, if you can add a bug for it :-)). <ajmitch> yeah I'll add a bug for it, it's nice to see things that are waiting on info from the submitter, especially if you can poke them about it <ajmitch> though that'd hardly been the main problem so far :) <noodles775> Hey there achuni :) <achuni> hi noodles775! <ajmitch> do you know what sorting is used for the list of ARB submissions? I don't know if it's entirely random, or if it just seems that way :) <achuni> ajmitch: hm yep it seems to be completely arbitrary atm <ajmitch> I think ordering by last changed date or by submission date would make sense, want a bug filed against developer-portal? <noodles775> ajmitch: looking at the code, and indeed - when an app is updated with a new package, it's not being put in the right place... I'll create a bug now, assuming you didn't already. <ajmitch> noodles775: no I haven't, I'll let you do it as you have more info on hand <noodles775> yep <noodles775> ajmitch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/910826 <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 910826 in developer-portal "New uploads to arb apps still private" [Medium,Confirmed] <noodles775> achuni: ^^ if you want to add it to the kb <achuni> noodles775: got it, thanks, adding! #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-03 <wip> how to detect in my C++ application if an user is currently in a Unity session? <mvo> one way is to check the "XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP" env for "Unity" <wip> mvo: thank you sir <mvo> your welcome, alternatively you can check for the dbus service on the session bus (d-feet is a really handy tool to get a overview what is running) <wip> i have to check this for coding an exception for Unity, cause my wxWidgets application is not working with it: http://groups.google.com/group/wx-users/browse_thread/thread/e688d6d188003f87 <mvo> oh, I'm sorry to hear that <aquarius> grr, why is gtk drag and drop so hard? <aquarius> :( #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-04 <dpm> good morning all <jo-erlend> mterry, hey. I've read your posts about Quickly. Is it ready for active use now? I haven't paid much attention lately. <mterry> jo-erlend, I believe so, yes <jo-erlend> cool. I'll have to start playing with it soon, then. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-06 <stefano> james_w, are you around? <james_w> hi stefano <stefano> hi :) I've got a question about developer.ubuntu.com. It advises to use Quickly, but the packaging guidelines say that you have to install into /opt <stefano> if I'm starting from scratch with quickly, what am I meant to do? <james_w> stefano, good question <james_w> I remember some discussions about making quickly install in to /opt, but I guess it didn't happen <james_w> stefano, let me just check up on that <stefano> sure, thanks! <james_w> stefano-palazzo, which release of Ubuntu are you working on? <stefano-palazzo> oneiric <james_w> stefano-palazzo, so, I'm told that "quickly submitubuntu" is what you need to use <stefano-palazzo> james_w, oh, cool. will that just create the usual package installing into /usr and /bin? <stefano-palazzo> or is there some kind of magic conversion happening? <james_w> stefano-palazzo, I believe it's a replacement for "quickly package" that does the right thing for the submission guidelines <stefano-palazzo> nice. that should probably be mentioned on the get-started page (: Thanks a lot james_w, looks like I'm all set <james_w> stefano-palazzo, yeah, I'm going to file a bug about it <james_w> stefano-palazzo, let me know if you have any problems with it <stefano-palazzo> will do, thank you #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-09 <jml> Good morning! <noodles775> Wow, morning jml! <jml> noodles775: yep. jet cisneroselizabeth@example.net. :) <noodles775> heh, ouch. How was the trip back home? (is it still home?) <ajmitch> hi <jml> noodles775: yeah, it's home, but less home than London. <jml> noodles775: was a great trip, actually. very chilled out for the most part. <ajmitch> which part of the world are you in now, jml? <jml> London. <ajmitch> jml: I'm guessing you won't be back for LCA this year then? :) <jml> ajmitch: nope #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-10 <jml> hello <jml> james_w: https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/pkgme-binary/reuse-backend/+merge/88053 <james_w> jml, looking at that, and I've just replied to your review of mine (thanks) and made the requested changes if you could take another look. <jml> james_w: thanks. <james_w`> jml, and replied <jml> james_w: thanks <jml> james_w`: the XXX wasn't added, fwiw, merely moved. <james_w`> jml, oh, I didn't see it removed in the diff <james_w`> is a zombie file still around perhaps? <jml> Oh. Hmm. <jml> my bad. <jml> james_w`: so, I had to add it because in trunk, not every test gets all of the metadata, whereas now all of them get all metadata <james_w`> ah, ok <jml> james_w`: I'll fix the tests to provide correct data, as per your recent changes to trunk. <james_w> thanks <jml> james_w: does all_info take arguments? <jml> james_w: anyway, changes provided. <jml> james_w: I'm going to quickly grab some food before our call. <james_w> np <james_w> http://pkgme.net/doc/backends/index.html#one-script <jml> oh, right. <jml> I misread SingleExternalHelperInfo <ShaneQful> hey <ShaneQful> I have been trying to make a ubuntu one client in ruby so in can publish file inside on kde and make a some what usable mac client <ShaneQful> Is anyone there ? <ShaneQful> I wrote a method to get an auth token but this is what the server is returning any help would be great <ShaneQful> warning: peer certificate won't be verified in this SSL session <ShaneQful> #<Net33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abHTTPOK:0xb76c2764> <ShaneQful> { <ShaneQful> "total_size": 0, <ShaneQful> "start": null, <ShaneQful> "resource_type_link": "https://login.ubuntu.com/api/1.0/#authentications", <ShaneQful> "entries": [] <ShaneQful> } <ShaneQful> no one online bye bye #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-11 <jml> hi #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-12 <irc-free> hi all <irc-free> does ubuntu allow apps that run on an emulator? <jml> james_w: https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/pkgme-binary/backend-tests/+merge/88365 up for review <jml> james_w: speeds up the test suite <jml> ajmitch: around? <james_w> jml, reviewed <james_w> jml, I'm adding a card to add a pdf test to the acceptance tests <james_w> jml, I also added one yesterday to set up CI <jml> james_w: thanks. <jml> james_w: was thinking of writing a little command-line twisted app that takes a pkgme-service url, a tarball and a metadata file, submits the tarball & metadata file to the pkgme-service, and terminates when it gets a response <james_w> jml, I think that would be very useful indeed <jml> james_w: would be useful for testing our current production deployment works, and probably also for future issues. <jml> james_w: ok, I'll do that then. <james_w> jml, I'm assuming we'll be able to hit the pkgme-service API url from the developer access machine to test production <jml> james_w: or that a losa will <james_w> yeah <james_w> I wonder if it could form the basis of a much improved nagios check as well? <jml> james_w: there's a thought. <jml> james_w: I'm trying to submit a package to my local pkgme service and it's not finding the database <jml> james_w: "no connection info available" <james_w> jml, dependency database? <jml> james_w: yeah, that one <james_w> jml, do you have ~/.config/pkgme-binary? <jml> james_w: I guess what I mean is, how do I say "use dev.cfg" (or is it actually looking for it?) <jml> james_w: no. <jml> james_w: how about I do that :) <james_w> jml, dev.cfg is used if production_credentials.cfg isn't there <james_w> so it should be using it already <jml> james_w: hmm. so it should be looking for test.db, right? <james_w> ~/.config/pkgme-binary/conf needs to point to a database containing valid dep db information <james_w> two different databases <james_w> test.db holds all the pkgme-service tables, but doesn't have the pkgme-binary dependency tables <jml> ahh, of course. <jml> james_w: there's something going on that I don't understand. <jml> james_w: the script runs fine and prints out the request body from the server <jml> james_w: but the celery daemon logs a 'Connection refused' during submitter.request(metadata.callback_url, headers=headers, body=body) in submit_pkgme_info(metadata) <jml> james_w: which I guess means it's trying to make a second connection. <jml> james_w: the harness shuts down after the first successful one <james_w> jml, so it all works but it gets a refused connection calling the callback? <jml> james_w: yes. <james_w> jml, that sounds plausible <james_w> celery doesn't log that it's running the job twice? <jml> james_w: well, celery doesn't log much <jml> it prints out every traceback twice though <jml> but errors is all I get. * jml looks for a verbose option <james_w> jml, also, have you encountered $PIP_DOWNLOAD_CACHE yet? <james_w> it makes "fab bootstrap" a little bit less annoying <jml> james_w: I have. <james_w> good <jml> james_w: but it's still pretty annoying :) <james_w> yes :-) <james_w> running it now to try out your new script <jml> james_w: got debug logging working. no sign of two jobs. <james_w> jml, you made a tarball from acceptance test data? <james_w> (trying to run it myself) <jml> james_w: yeah, I just used the gtk one <james_w> jml, is it easy to change the twisted server to shut down after two requests? <jml> james_w: hmm. I guess so. I tried changing it to not shut down at all, but the second request never came. <james_w> hmm <james_w> that seems equivalent then <james_w> jml, have you confirmed it's getting one request? <jml> james_w: how do you mean? <james_w> jml, the theory is that it's shutting down after the first request, but have you confirmed that it's getting a request and shutting down <james_w> rather than the port being wrong and so no requests are making it to the callback server? <jml> james_w: it's definitely getting the callback request. <james_w> ok <jml> james_w: it prints the output from that to stdout <james_w> ah yes <james_w> (I'm just seeing "timeout while waiting for response" so far) <jml> james_w: check cisneroselizabeth@example.net <james_w> (because I haven't set up ~/.config/pkgme-binary yet) <jml> ah. <james_w> ok, I'm seeing the same thing now <jml> cool. <jml> exarkun suggested "You may also be shutting down the reactor such that the response is never sent, and some kind of retry logic in the client is kicking in." <jml> and when I put a delay between sending request & shutdown, everything works fine <jml> annoyingly, there's no event to hook on for "response sent" <james_w> ah <james_w> that would do it <jml> reactor.callLater(0, ...) to the rescue :( <james_w> 0 meaning no timeout, which will run as the next thing after what it is doing, which happens to be sending the response? <jml> yes <jml> in the next event loop cycle, roughly <james_w> ok <james_w> do you know why it was working in the integration test? <james_w> I guess the reactor isn't shut down until the end of the test? <jml> james_w: errors in the celery log don't necessarily fail the integration test. <james_w> ah, true <jml> I'd like to fix that. <jml> But I don't really know how. :) <james_w> yeah <james_w> also, the url in the response printed by the harness isn't a url, do we need to add another config option for that? <james_w> one for the dir to put the tarballs in, one for the url to get things in that dir? <jml> yeah, probably <jml> also, I seem to have broken the test somewhere along the line <jml> nope. <jml> it's just that it behaves poorly with already-running celery <jml> james_w: I'm late for things. <james_w> ok <jml> james_w: will catch up tomorrow. please merge this branch if you think it's ok. <james_w> jml, looks fine to me, if you are happy with it I will <jml> I am. <jml> g'night all <ajmitch> jml: I'm around now, guessing that you're not? :) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-13 <dpm> good morning all <dpm> noodles775, are the permissions for doing review of ARB apps tied to a Launchpad team? The reason I'm asking is because I've been thinking of proposing having a team to help the arb (e.g. if someone is not part of the ARB but want to help with packaging). In that case it might be useful to have a LP team containing those additional contributors that has permissions e.g. to post comments on app entries in MyApps. What do you think? <noodles775> dpm: currently the perms are not linked to a team, but this is a bug. You can see all the perms at (sorry for the private link): https://wiki.canonical.com/ConsumerApplications/PrivilegedAccessToApps <dpm> thanks noodles775, looking at it now. Is there a bug # for it, or shall I report a new one? <noodles775> dpm: Currently we only have an 'arb_reviewer' permission, which gives access to review and approve arb apps etc. <noodles775> dpm: the bug is listed there on the wiki page. <noodles775> dpm: but as ARB apps are already public, there'd be nothing stopping someone who was interested in helping packaging to grab the upload, do some packaging work and upload it to their own (public) PPA right? We'd just need to enable the ability to add comments as you say. <dpm> exactly <ajmitch> is there a bug open about being able to see apps in the 'needs information' state? <ajmitch> I know there's a bug about the feedback on an individual app <noodles775> ajmitch: so that reviewers can see bugs in needs information? Let me check. <ajmitch> noodles775: yeah, it's a bit of a black hole at the moment, hitting ask for information & the app disappears <ajmitch> I didn't spot any open bugs about it on developer-portal <ajmitch> it'd also be sort of nice to see rejected apps as well, to get an idea of why they get rejected :) <noodles775> yeah, we did initially have a more general view which would allow you to filter via state using url params, but I think that's gone now... checking. <noodles775> I don't see one either, let me know if you don't have time to create a bug with those points. <ajmitch> will create bug :) <noodles775> Ta. <ajmitch> bug 915902 <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 915902 in developer-portal "Currently cannot see applications in the 'Needs Information' state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/915902 <noodles775> sweet, thanks. <jml> james_w: I have an embarrassing confession to make. I can't seem to run pkgme locally. <james_w> jml, you aren't sure how, or it crashes? <jml> james_w: I get: pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: bzr <jml> james_w: and bzr doesn't build (although it occurs to me now that I should try to pull latest trunk) <james_w> jml, interesting, maybe it's because you are running bzr from source? <james_w> or it may be a precise thing <jml> yeah. <jml> james_w: well, it's in the virtualenv <jml> james_w: so I don't know that running bzr from source matters. <james_w> ah, probably not <james_w> but bzr fails to build when setting up the virtualenv? <jml> james_w: no, the virtualenv is set up correctly <jml> james_w: or so it says. I should maybe try blowing it away & trying again <james_w> jml, is there an egg-info dir for bzr in the virtualenv? <jml> too late : <jml> (next time, just make a new one!) <james_w> jml, yesterday I created https://launchpad.net/~canonical-ca-hackers/+archive/production/+packages so that we can more easily replicate the production environment elsewhere <james_w> jml, and I was going to write a juju charm to spin up a pkgme-service instance <james_w> jml, but you can't do that on a lucid base, so I'm not sure it would get us much <james_w> jml, what do you think about using juju anyway, as compared to scripting something to do it in canonistack? <jml> https://code.launchpad.net/~jml/pkgme-binary/pdf-acceptance-tests/+merge/88521 <james_w> jml, Approved <jml> james_w: thanks. <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-16 <danger89> We developed your own deb & ppa for Ubuntu, named Bumblebee <danger89> However the user still needs to manually add there own username to the bumblebee group. This is because the installation cisneroselizabeth@example.net. We're granting write permissions to a socket for a specific group to give a sense of security. Has anyone any idea how to fix the installer to add the current user automatic to the bumblebee group? <danger89> Somebody who can help us, please? <danger89> We donÂ´t know how to automatic add the current user to a new group from te installer <Lekensteyn> danger89: I don't think it's a sensible thing to do so <JanC> there is also no (sure) way to know who is the "current user"... <JanC> maybe you could use debconf and let it ask for usernames to add to that group... <jo-erlend> I'd very much like to add new tags to Gedit. For instance, when I use # TODO, that becomes yellow. I would like to add # BUG: to be colored red, # DONE to be colored green, etc. Does anyone know if and how this is possible? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-17 <pete__> hi <jo-erlend> hey pete__ :) <pete__> hi jo-erlend. I'm looking for someone to guide me in terms of recommended reading as for ubuntu+pygtk+packaging commercial apps. <jo-erlend> pete__, ok. What do you already know? <pete__> frankly not much. never used python. read about cpython but I dont know if that would be the case here <pete__> my main worry is if it's to be closed source it better be bytecode. so the question is <pete__> can it be compiled to bytecode? <jo-erlend> yes, but all byte code can easily be converted to source code, whether you use Java, C# or Python. In other words, if your goal is secrecy, that's not the way to do it. <pete__> my goal is to create an app that <pete__> 1) is a great app and serves users <pete__> 2) allows me to pay my bills and concentrate on supporting and extending the app <pete__> so the question is - should I choose C/C++ ? :) <jo-erlend> Python programs don't hide the source. But open source refers to licensing. Even if the source code is readable, it doesn't mean it has to be open source. Also, there's no reason why you can't sell open source software. <pete__> well perhaps you're right <pete__> don't plan any proprietary patented algorithms <jo-erlend> if you want a language that compiles to native code, I would recommend Vala. It's very similar to Java and C#, but it compiles to C, which is then compiled to native. That makes it both very platform independent and extremely fast. It's faster than C++ and it's _much_ faster than C# and Java. But it isn't more complicated. <pete__> can I use C/C++ libs with Vala? <jo-erlend> if you haven't done much programming before, then I would still recommend that you start with Python. It's easier to learn, and faster to develop in. Developing for Ubuntu in Python is very similar to using Vala, so you won't start from scratch if you decide to move on. <jo-erlend> pete__, yes. In Python too. <pete__> well I'm been doing pretty much programming for the last 15 years :) only never 1) made aps for linux 2) released commercial app 3) used python <jo-erlend> to begin with, I would recommend that you have a cisneroselizabeth@example.net. It's a tool that simplifies the job of getting up and running. It does so by creating a project from a template. Then you can use a visual GUI designer for your program, and start developing. It also handles packaging and upload to your PPA if you have one. <pete__> yes looked into quickly <pete__> and franklu i'm tempted using python <pete__> cause i love the syntax <pete__> my worries are the commerce-related ones <jo-erlend> yes, me too. And I love GTK and GLib. <jo-erlend> well.. What exactly is it you're worried about? <pete__> well maybe you made your point that it's not about being able to read the code <pete__> only the license itself <pete__> you know... in the old days :D we used obfuscators for java applets :) <jo-erlend> You can publish your software for sale in Ubuntu Software Center and then users can buy it from there. Canonical will then not allow anyone else to upload your code to the software center. If you license it as open source, then people can still package it themselves and distribute in a PPA or similar, but you'll still be much more visible in USC. <jo-erlend> but as I said before, you don't have to license it as open source if you don't want to. The fact that people can read the code, doesn't mean that they are allowed to actually use it. <pete__> maybe you're right <pete__> the other question is if anyone buys the software :) hahah but that's the risk <jo-erlend> but if you're used to Java and you want to program for Ubuntu, then you will want to cisneroselizabeth@example.net. It's _very_ similar. Very short tutorial: http://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial <pete__> let me take a lok <pete__> *look <jo-erlend> pete__, hehe, yes, that's another question. <pete__> what can I say - I'd buy some :) <pete__> as for Vala - strong typing? <jo-erlend> but I think, whether or not the application is open source, people who doesn't want to pay, won't. And I don't think most people are going to look much at the license either. At least, they don't do that in the Windows world. They just skip the license altogether. And if they don't want to pay, then they pirate it. <jo-erlend> pete__, yes. <pete__> yeah you're right about the license. <pete__> open source and free software are great concepts <jo-erlend> and it is pretty much based on GObject, which makes it a very nice language for the Gnome platform. <pete__> but you know... not everyone is canonical :) <pete__> i've contributed some minor stuff <pete__> but at the end of a day, I'm a software developer, I don't work for a corporation and I have to make a living <pete__> vala looks cool, but I'm really tempted to use python <pete__> used ruby recently <pete__> so even if they're different <pete__> there's some similiarity <jo-erlend> right. I know the feeling. I really want to sell some of my software. I'm having many of the same thoughts as you have. But my current thought is that if I put my software for sale in USC, users are either going to buy it because they want it, or not going to buy it. I don't think hardly any users would care if it's Free software or not. <jo-erlend> many similarities between Ruby and Python. I read up on both at the same time, and I chose Python. Never regretted that. <pete__> yeah you're right about buying <pete__> have you put up anything on USC? <pete__> ...yet? <jo-erlend> pete__, not yet. :) <jo-erlend> actively working towards that goal, though, but my current project is rather large, so it'll be a while. <pete__> is it a side-project? <pete__> because mine will be, and it means huuuuge delays :) <jo-erlend> well, yes. <pete__> so it's gonna be a long year for you too ;) <pete__> ok thanks very much for help <jo-erlend> oh, no, not really. My projects are so fun, time really flies. :) <pete__> i think you convinced me with python <jo-erlend> thanks! :) <pete__> ok i'm off bye <jo-erlend> bye :) <dpm> good morning! <jml> hello <dpm> hey jml :) <ajmitch> hi <aquarius> anyone feeling knowledgeable about gtk3 drag and drop? I want a webkit.webview *and* its container to both receive drag and drop signals... #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-18 <psusi> signals go through the main loop right, so if you emit a signal in a background thread, the callback will be called in the foreground thread ( assuming it is still running the main loop ) right? <psusi> (glib signals that is) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-19 <jml> hi <jo-erlend> hey jml. :) <dpm> good morning everyone, hey jo-erlend <jo-erlend> hey dpm, and good morning to you too. :) <dpm> :) <jo-erlend> it's a really good morning for me, since my program seems to pass tests â finally! :) <rickspencer3> hey jo-erlend <jo-erlend> hey rickspencer3 :) <jo-erlend> how are you? <jo-erlend> really glad you encouraged me to write tests. It's become an addiction for me. ;) <jml> tests are awesome <jml> (says the guy who just approved a branch without tests) <jo-erlend> I've always seen it as a chore, but now I realise that it's actually improved my development speed radically, and that it turns things around. Instead of getting disappointed, I get confirmation that things are working all the time. I'm really happy I started doing it. <jo-erlend> I actually wish I could run the tests whenever I saved anything, and that I got a notification showing fail or success. <jo-erlend> or even auto-commit on "new success". That is, if the last saves tests failed and this saves tests succeed, then auto-commit. That would be very nice if you write tests in advance. <rickspencer3> hey jo-erlend good to hear! <rickspencer3> hey jo-erlend did you see any of my posts from over the holidays? <rickspencer3> I think I'm leaving Gtk as a widget toolkit, and going over to HTML5 for my front ends <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, no, where did you post them... <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, and... What's possessed you? <rickspencer3> http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/ <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, it was just super fun <jo-erlend> I'll wait a decade more, I think. <jo-erlend> I jumped on the whole "DHTML is going to kill the desktop"-thing back in 1999 or so. They're still talking about it, and there's some progress, but I think it's far from being competitive. <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, well, I was writing desktop only apps <rickspencer3> just using webkit + HTML5 for my widgets <rickspencer3> they aren't web apps * noodles775 really enjoyed reading through http://www.cuttherope.ie/dev/ recently <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, oh, I see. Then you're using many webviews <jo-erlend> ? <jo-erlend> or did I misunderstand that completely? :) *reading* <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, just one webkit view per window <rickspencer3> it's pretty easy, actually <jml> jo-erlend: are you doing TDD? (are you writing the tests first?) <jml> jo-erlend: because I find that heaps more fun than writing tests afterwards. <jo-erlend> jml, semi. I'm getting there. :) <jml> jo-erlend: heh. I know what you mean. <jml> jo-erlend: one of the nice things about writing tests first is that you tend to get code that's easier to re-use. <jml> jo-erlend: because "easy to test" and "reusable" are, roughly speaking, synonyms * jml stops raving <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, interesting project. <rickspencer3> jml, I find that when I do TDD, my APIs are way better, too <rickspencer3> because I write the code I want to write first, if that makes sense <jml> rickspencer3: yeah. <JanC_> rickspencer3: do those HTML5 GUIs support a11y & such? (Maybe you can use special stylesheets for that?) <rickspencer3> JanC, hi <rickspencer3> I presume that webkit support a11y, yes <rickspencer3> but I have not tested it <JanC> well, it supports a11y, but that's not the same as what normal GUI apps can provide AFAIK (I suppose webkit doesn't know whether some HTML/JS fragment is "a widget", or what its purpose is?) <rickspencer3> JanC, you ask a good question <rickspencer3> I'm really not certain <rickspencer3> I mean, I am confident you *can* make an accessible gui with HTML5, I'm just not certain how "built in" it is <JanC> it should be possible to have some sort of API for this sort of things, I suppose <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, do I understand correctly that you aim to provide a complete widget toolkit for html/css/js? <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, negative <rickspencer3> it's already done <rickspencer3> there are many toolkits to choose from <rickspencer3> I chose JQuery for myself <JanC> there already is one... Gtk+ ? ;) <JanC> I haven't tried the "web" backend for Gtk though <jo-erlend> gtk uses canvas, doesn't it? <JanC> maybe <JanC> probably easiest for them to use that <jo-erlend> I got that impression from a libreoffice demo I saw. I don't really consider that html, though it obviously is. :) <JanC> it's mostly JavaScript, I suppose âº <jo-erlend> rickspencer3, do you mean that jquery is comparable to gtk? <jo-erlend> I don't know much about that, really. <rickspencer3> jo-erlend, I mean that HTML5 + JQuery is a fun toolkit to use <rickspencer3> I suppose they are comparable in different ways <jo-erlend> html is fun. Always has been. From everything I've seen, it's not close to mature enough to replace desktop apps, and it sure isn't good enough to replace dtp. To me, it's still a homepage thing. <jo-erlend> saw some interesting suggestions from Opera recently, though. It should become possible to columnize data. That would improve things radically, I think. <JanC> jo-erlend: "columnize"? <jo-erlend> yes, you take one article tag and split it up into several columns, and split the page into pages. The data itself is untouched. <jo-erlend> split the _article_ into pages of columns, I mean. <jo-erlend> heh, that's one of the most basic aspects of newspapers for the last few hundred years, and you still can't do it with web technologies :> <jo-erlend> I mean you have a screen with a width of 2560px, and the news sites still present the news in a single column 4-500px wide. It's reader hostile. <jo-erlend> the web doesn't impress me a single bit, except for the value of RESTful APIs. But those are just as valuable to desktop apps as browser apps. The web should've been holographic by now! And where are the flying cars?! :) <JanC> you know, Netscape 4 (and maybe earlier?) could already put text in columns... ;) <jo-erlend> yes, and the mayas understood the stars... a long time ago. Isn't worth much when the fanatical antipathies are mightier than insightful creativity. Some things never change. <JanC> well, I think it was removed because people didn't like reading in columns on web pages <JanC> of course that might be because of the implementation <JanC> anyway, CSS already has support for "paged media" <jo-erlend> yes, I know. Operas suggestion was still very interesting. Wish I had a reference on hand. <JanC> jo-erlend: I suppose you mean "Opera Reader" ? <JanC> http://people.opera.com/howcome/2011/reader/ <jo-erlend> that looks like it, yes. <jo-erlend> I hate scrolling when I read. I want a foot pedal for next and previous -- that I can also use for guitar of course -- and I'll use my vertical 24" 1080x1920 to read one page at a time. That's absolutely perfect. :) <jo-erlend> that fellow _always_ disappears when I need to chat with him. :) <jo-erlend> no exception. #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-20 <dpm> good morning all <noodles775> Hey there dpm :) <dpm> morning noodles775 #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-21 <jono> hey, anyone here used WebKit for their UI of an app? <JanC> jono: rickspencer3 did <jono> JanC, yeah, I showed me a while back, I am just trying to figure it out myself now <jono> I wish I remembered what he did :-) <jono> I created http://askubuntu.com/questions/97430/connect-webkit-webview-form-to-a-python-callback to document this if people know <JanC> he uses webkit + HTML5 + CSS + JS + JQuery <jono> yup <JanC> honestly, I don't think it's really a good idea (yet?) to write apps like that <JanC> because I'm pretty sure it has usability & accessibility issues <jono> right <JanC> but if you are just doing a "quick port" of a web app/game to something more standalone... <JanC> the "obvious" "easy" solution to handle this is to run a local HTTP server, of course ;) <commandoline> In Qt it's possible to call python methods from javascript (QtWebKit), no idea on GTK though. http://pysnippet.blogspot.com/2010/01/calling-python-from-javascript-in-pyqts.html <JanC> this looks like it might have useful info: http://www.aclevername.com/articles/python-webgui/ (although might be outdated...) #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-22 <jono> hey <jono> any GTK hackers in here? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-23 <dpm> good morning all <dpm> good night all! #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-24 <dpm> good morning all <dpm> hey all, would someone be able to answer this question? http://askubuntu.com/questions/95956/creating-a-unity-lens-the-name-activation-does-not-exist-in-the-context-of-u <fredo> I am currently trying to debug PyGI bindings, but gdb always prints "No locals." for python internals although python-dbgsym is installed. <fredo> How do I properly debug python using gdb? Any other package missing? <JanC> fredo: I guess that only helps to debug Python and its standard library <JanC> I wonder if there exists a gdb plugin or such that understands PyGI / GObject Introspection <fredo> JanC: I also installed all sorts of dbgsym packages, and I do get locals for glib functions and so on. <JanC> you will probably also need the debug symbols of the libraries you use <fredo> But I donât get locals for PyErr_Print() etc. <fredo> Thatâs why I thought that it were specifically python symbols missing. <JanC> fredo: you might want to ask this question in the #introspection channel on GIMPnet <fredo> JanC: Okay, will do. Thanks. <JanC> irc.gimp.org or such <JanC> fredo: there is also python-dbg which you can install <fredo> JanC: I settled for the dbgsym-variant, although I have to confess I donât really understand the differences. <fredo> But I had no luck with python-dbg either. <JanC> fredo: are you using the special Python support in gdb? <JanC> I seem to remember there is something like that <fredo> JanC: Actually, I donât know. <fredo> I read something like that, too, but I donât know how to use it or not. <JanC> I'be never used it myself either <JanC> I've* #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-25 <dpm> morning all <jo-erlend> I'm applying for Ubuntu Membership. I have a wiki page if someone would like to add their testimonial: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoErlendSchinstad. <cortexuvula> Hi I am new to Ubuntu dev and is using quickly to write a small app. I want to add a splash screen (dialog with a quit and continue button) to my quickly app. Could someone direct me to a tutorial or how to <jml> cortexuvula, hmm <jml> cortexuvula, good question. <jml> cortexuvula, splash screens don't normally have a quit button though. Are you thinking of something like a "Tip of the Day" thing? <cortexuvula> medical app that I am writing so on the splash I want to indicate a warning "This app is not ....." so if you disagree the app should quit and agree then continues to main window <cortexuvula> yeah something like a modified "tip of the day" <jml> cortexuvula, ah ok. <jml> cortexuvula, I think you want to make a dialog with two buttons, where one button's action is to quit and the other's is to go on to the rest of the app <jml> cortexuvula, do you know how to make a Gtk dialog? <jml> rebooting. brb. <cortexuvula> jml exactly what I want <cortexuvula> i have add a dialog with quickly add dialog warning <dpm> cortexuvula, you might also find this tutorial interesting. It's not exactly what you're trying to do, but it touches a range of subjects that should be useful (Gtk dialogs, glade, etc) -> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/all/diy-media-player-with-pygtk/ <cortexuvula> dpm I will have a look at the tutorial <dpm> cortexuvula, cool, let us know how it works for you <cortexuvula> jml Give me a day to check the tutorial if I do not find an answer I will check back here <jml> cortexuvula, sure. I'll be around here during UK work hours (and others will be around too) <cortexuvula> Thanks for the help thus far :-) <jml> np <jackyalcine> How do I make my own documentation for my application? <jackyalcine> Like I want it to show up in the Help Viewer on Ubuntu. <jml> jackyalcine, I don't know :( <jml> jackyalcine, that's a good question though. <jo-erlend> jackyalcine, very good question. More like a manual than an API doc then? <jackyalcine> Yes. <jackyalcine> This way, I could have hyperlinks in applications link to it. <jo-erlend> I think maybe you can use the DocBook format for that, but I'm not sure. <jackyalcine> Although a good application shouldn't require documentation, the application I'm building (speech recognition training utility) isn't mediocre :P <jackyalcine> Do you know where I'd have to put it? <dpm> jackyalcine, if you are thinking of user documentation, you can run the 'quickly create ubuntu-application nameofyourapp' and there you should have an example of documentation pages <dpm> they are the files with the .page extension <dpm> they are in a format called Mallard, quite similar to docbook <jackyalcine> Nifty! I'll try it out. <dpm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816594/ <dpm> oops, too late, nevermind <pratheek_> hello, how do i get started on devloping apps for Ubuntu ! :D <dpm> pratheek_, I love questions with easy answers :-) There you go: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/ <pratheek_> @dpm: OK, thanks for the link ! also, if I had to make my application suitable to work in any other Linux distro (other than ubuntu, like Fedora where .rpm is used) How would I be able to do that ? <dpm> pratheek_, quickly, the tool that page talks about, simply puts together a set of other tools that should work in any distribution <dpm> then you'd only have to worry about the packaging, which is indeed different for every distribution <dpm> quickly only helps you creating .deb files for Ubuntu, which work also in Debian and any derivatives <dpm> so for rpm and any other format, you'd have to create the packages yourself <pratheek_> @dpm: oh ok ! :-D, Is there a tool that packages in different formats as per my wish ? <dpm> pratheek_, not that I know of, but I must admit I haven't done research on the subject <pratheek_> ok ! anyother chatrrom where i could get help on that ? <pratheek_> *dpm <dpm> Guest1073, here's your example of where to find documentation if you use quickly to create your app with Python, GTK and Mallard: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/816594/ <dpm> pratheek_, not that I know of, sorry <pratheek_> @dpm : ok ! Thanks for all the help ! :D <pratheek_> Bye ! <psusi> I'm looking for an IO interface to use in a gtkmm app that I can tie to a pipe fd and have a callback whenever data arrives on the pipe, is there such a thing? #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-28 <jono> hey folks <jono> any quickly fans around? <jono> hey folks <jono> can anyone explain how I use the helpers in the current version of Quickly? specifically get_media_file() <shududy> hello ubuntuers <shududy> I just got started quickly programming <shududy> but i stucked in somewhere <shududy> when i type $quickly design, just nothing happens <shududy> i use ubuntu 12.04 <shududy> ok it looks like the problem is a missing package called glade <mrkennie> Hi! <mrkennie> got here in the end <mrkennie> I'm looking for a clean way to list active user sessions. I'm looking at dbus right now but I can't seem to find anything that does what I need. <mrkennie> there used to be something in gnome2 but that's gone now and I'm dealing with unity sessions now anyway #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-29 <NeoNetNinja> anyone here? <NeoNetNinja> hello? <NeoNetNinja> I need to build a website in Ubuntu using HTML 5. What programs should I be using to do that? <NeoNetNinja> ty <NeoNetNinja> and/or any good references, tutorials, or any other advice? <NeoNetNinja> I really appreciate the help <NeoNetNinja> I'd like to build it from scratch even if that means it takes more time <NeoNetNinja> its OK, I'll be here all night so if anyone reads ^ then please help me out. Many thanks and giga-props to all :) <NeoNetNinja> just ping/pm me <chelz> NeoNetNinja: maybe vim/emacs/gedit/kate and standard html5 docs <chelz> firebug and the chromium developer inspector <NeoNetNinja> ok, great thanks <NeoNetNinja> what about security testing of it? <NeoNetNinja> w3af? <chelz> NeoNetNinja: that might be more of a #html question <NeoNetNinja> ok, sorry <NeoNetNinja> thanks again <NeoNetNinja> :) <chelz> np gl #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-30 <dpm> good morning <jo-erlend> morning dpm :) <dpm> hey, good morning jo-erlend, how's it going? <jo-erlend> all good. I've applied for membership and I'm looking forward to the meeting tomorrow. :) <jo-erlend> you? <dpm> jo-erlend, ah, cool! <dpm> good luck in the meeting <jo-erlend> thanks. I recently took over as contact for the Norwegian loco, so I thought it was a good time to make my commitment to Ubuntu a little more formal. <dpm> jo-erlend, excellent <mhall119> are there anyone from the ARB here? <ajmitch> mhall119: sorry for the delay, but yes <mhall119> ajmitch: I sent an email to the ML instead, it's waiting moderation according to the reply I got <ajmitch> ok, stgraber has the keys to the list now iirc, he should let it through soon #ubuntu-app-devel 2012-01-31 <dpm> good morning #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-01 <vadi2> In debian packaging, is mudlet_2.0 newer than mudlet_2.0-rc20 ? #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-02 <coolnamehuh> anyone know what to do with this error when trying to package? <coolnamehuh> (setup.py:10257): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken. <hippiehacker> https://gist.github.com/4436283 # trying to get firefox to create a profile on first run that includes specific CAs (or at least add one) <JanC> hippiehacker: why do you need that? <hippiehacker> https://gist.github.com/4436283#comment-695263 # I have a custom app that generates a self-signed certificate during the OEM OOBE for ubuntu, I need firefox to be able to connect securely to that site without user interaction <hippiehacker> I'm getting close, but I'm confused as to why the Google-CA is force added when I specifically start with a https://wiki.mozilla.org/CA:UserCertDB that has only one entry <hippiehacker> It also seems strange that I would need to populate /usr/lib/firefox/defaults/profile instead of /etc/firefox/profile or something <JanC> hippiehacker: the Google cert might be injected for Google's malware protection service <JanC> otherwise the user would get questions about that cert when Firefox checks whether your site is listed as hosting malware <JanC> (it's still a bit sneaky to do it that way, of course) <mobilenoob> Hello. I try to follow the Ubuntu QML toolkit preview install and this shows up: W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ui-toolkit/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/source/Sources 404 Not Found <mobilenoob> Is the repository missing this part on purpose or should I do something else? <hippiehacker> https://gist.github.com/4436283#comment-695471 I've noticed that as I continue to browse, I get no notices, but the certs stored in the compiled shared-lib.so get automatically readded 8( <hippiehacker> I'd like to have a bit more control over who my computer trusts #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-03 <punit> Can any one say Ubuntu on mobile require emulator or simulator ?? <punit> to run and test its apps <mybro> hello! I've just installed the Ubuntu QML toolkit preview and am trying to go through the initial tutorial (currency converter) <mybro> Qt Creator isn't recognizing Ubuntu.Components when I try to import. Does anyone know where in the file system the kit is copied and where in Qt Creator I can point to it? <kicker22004> anyone up? <commandoline> argh, just writing 'just ask' nicely :S #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-04 <Silur> hi all <Silur> i have some questions about the gomobile project <dkessel> don't ask to ask ;) just ask... <Silur> will it provide gcc? <Silur> the site only metions HTML5 and QML <Silur> but will i be able to run a simple Hello world console C++ ? <Silur> or will it contain a python shell etc... <Silur> the video says it's going to inherit the Desktop ubuntu's security, user-friendly interface, management but what about development? <dkessel> well i don't know much about the project - just wanted to get you started asking so someone who knows about it can answer... <Silur> should i write an email to cisneroselizabeth@example.net? <dkessel> i think there is a channel... #ubuntu-phone or #ubuntu-mobile or so <Silur> how can i list channels? O.o <Silur> help <Silur> LIST <Silur> dafuq <dkessel> it's called #ubuntu-phone . i checked <Silur> thanks :D <dkessel> so /join #ubuntu-phone <mh0> How long oes it take to get a USC app approved? <towels|deb> Hello everyone. <towels|deb> Quick question, the Ubuntu Phone OS is projected to support C++, right? <towels|deb> Well, any language I suppose. <LyokoWarrior91> Hello?? <towels|deb> codehep mpt, Pici? <towels|deb> codehelp* #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-05 <tsimpson> towels|deb: yes, it says so in the into video with sabdfl <towels|deb> So, do I have to use their little dev kit or could I technically just get their compiler and libraries and make one myself? <tsimpson> I'd guess the development kit would be the compiler and libraries anyway <tsimpson> I doubt you'll be tied to the development kit, you should be able to roll your own <towels|deb> Is it currently supported or no? <towels|deb> I think only Python and Javascript is at the time. <towels|deb> I'm not sure though. <towels|deb> I guess Ubuntu "apps" will work native on the phone too. <tsimpson> it uses QML, which is part of Qt, which is a C++ tool-kit <towels|deb> Yes, but they're using python packages and python code in the "tutorial" video. <tsimpson> I haven't seen those videos, I do know there are python bindings to Qt too, but it's all C++ in the backend <tsimpson> I would guess it's just easier to do tutorials in python, as there's no compiling/linking involved <nalaginrut> morning guilers~ <nalaginrut> hmm...wrong msg for wrong channel <marxjohnson> evening <marxjohnson> I'm trying to write a QML app that plays sound, but when I try and use QtMultimediaKit i get an error saying it's not installed. How/can I install it? <commandoline> marxjohnson: QtMultimediaKit is in the qtmobility package if I recall correctly. <commandoline> (and qtmobility-dev for the headers I guess) <marxjohnson> There doesnt seem to be a qtmobility package, qtmobility-dev exists but that doesn't seem to be it <marxjohnson> I'm using the "Ubuntu QML toolkit preview" btw, in case that makes a difference <marxjohnson> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ <commandoline> hmm, it probably does. That's Qt 5. QtMultimediaKit might not even exist in that anymore... <marxjohnson> ah <marxjohnson> so is there not currently likely to be a way to play sound in QML apps? <commandoline> marxjohnson: well, the Qt 5 way is QtMultimedia. <commandoline> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtmultimedia/qtmultimedia-index.html <marxjohnson> commandoline: Ah, perfect, thanks! <popey> marxjohnson: seen https://github.com/ali1234/jono-qml ? <popey> by ali1234 on irc <marxjohnson> popey: haha check your email <popey> âº <mh0> I asked yesterday but I never got an answer appear in my buffer playback today... How long does it take for a application to be approved to Ubuntu Software Center? <mh0> popey: Maan, that seems awesome! <qwertzui11> mh0: less than a week, depends on how much u've got to fix/change <mh0> hm alright #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-07 <Akshay> anybosy can help me creating first app on QT <Akshay> i'm getting this error when I run the demo code <Akshay> module "QtQuick" version 2.0 is not installed import QtQuick 2.0 <tsimpson> you need Qt5 for QtQuick 2.0 <Akshay> i follwed all the steps given in ubuntu site <Akshay> i did nothing new <Akshay> what should i donow? <tsimpson> you can either install Qt5.0 from http://qt-project.org/downloads or you can write a QtQuick 1.0 project <Akshay> ok tet me try <Akshay> by the way i run the commad that is given on the ubuntu wesite which i think installs QT5, <Akshay> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta1 && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install qt5-meta-full && echo 'export PATH=/opt/qt5/bin:$PATH' >> ~/.bashrc <tsimpson> ah, well that should pull Qt5 then <Akshay> yeah thats what <tsimpson> what command are you running which gives your error message? <Akshay> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ <Akshay> see this link <Akshay> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/mobile/currency-converter-phone-app/ <Akshay> I'm trying to view that tools->external thing <tsimpson> did you set it to use qmlscene? <tsimpson> I don't have a Qt5 setup on this box, so I can't really test the instructions right now <Akshay> ok, <Akshay> I'm trying to setup qmlscene <jvrbanac> mhall119, I'll finish up that ERM diagram tonight after I get off of work. #ubuntu-app-devel 2013-01-08 <jvrbanac> mhall119, you still around? <mhall119> jvrbanac: yup <jvrbanac> sweet! I think I just finished up a rough pass at that diagram. Just sent it via email. <jvrbanac> I ended up stripping out a ton of redundant information when I made the whole thing pretty generic <jvrbanac> I'm not sure if that was exactly what you were looking for. <jvrbanac> mhall119, Woop! I forgot to add a type column on the search_elements table. I figured that since we weren't really rendering the
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