#edubuntu 2006-07-01 <pygi> hey people <bddebian> Hi pygi <HedgeMage> okay folks, I'm out to run errands, see you later! <DanielC> l8r <jsgotangco> good morning <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco <jsgotangco> hey <HedgeMage> heya :) <HedgeMage> jsgotangco: can you point me to a good crash course in docbook somewhere? <jsgotangco> hmmmmm <LaserJock> HedgeMage: on the wiki <HedgeMage> edubuntu wiki or ubuntu main? <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocBook <HedgeMage> thanks darlin' :) <LaserJock> np <sbalneav> Evening all <HedgeMage> hi sbalneav <sbalneav> Hello HedgeMage <bluekuja> Laser_away, ping <pygi> hey all <jsgotangco> hey rodarvus <juliux> hi jsgotangco <jsgotangco> hey! * Yagisan waves hello <paolob-parroquia> ogra, I want to backup a full edubuntu server, what shall I do wiht the directories below /opt/ltsp? Are there directories I can't backup? thank you <DanielC> Whooo hoo!!! I just made my first .deb package! <Yagisan> congrats DanielC <Yagisan> what did you make ? <DanielC> It's just documentation, nothing fancy. <DanielC> User guide for OpenOffice.org <DanielC> No compilation required :) <Yagisan> I'm just trying to cmakify a package. It's failing miserably. <DanielC> :( <Yagisan> pretends it can't find my headers. <Yagisan> yet it clearly complains about them. <lucasvo> cool <lucasvo> just got my shipit cd's <lucasvo> good evening everybody <Yagisan> evening lucasvo <lucasvo> not much up, eh_ <lucasvo> ? <Yagisan> lucasvo: I'm smacking my head against cmake, and should have gone to bed 7 hours ago. It will be sunrise soon. <lucasvo> Yagisan: oh #edubuntu 2006-07-02 <bddebian> Heya <lecaros> !ping <ubotu> pong <mhz> lecaros: ? <mhz> whazup? <bddebian> Heya <DanielC> It's quiet today... <DanielC> There isn't a football match right now, is there? <juliux> hi DanielC <juliux> DanielC, no football today * DanielC waves <DanielC> juliux: Who's your favourite team? <juliux> DanielC, germany <DanielC> :) <juliux> DanielC, england is out, sorry <DanielC> Germany is doing well I hear. <DanielC> Yeah, I saw the game yesterday (not that I like football anyways). <juliux> that will be a funny monday in the office <DanielC> :) <juliux> everybody was saying that german will be get out <juliux> but now england is out <DanielC> Bring a German flag ;-) <juliux> i will try to buy one <boricua> good moorning i want to try edubuntu on a mac-intel which iso do i need? <Yagisan> IIRC it doesn't work on mactels yet <boricua> i am asking for edubuntu not iirc <Yagisan> at least, not as a standalone or server <Yagisan> boricua: iirc = If I recall correctly <boricua> the edubuntu download page shows For Apple Macintosh G3, G4, and G5 computers, including iBooks and PowerBooks. <Yagisan> should work as a client if it supports net-boot <boricua> iirc ok i learn now what is iirc <boricua> :-) <Yagisan> yes, none of those is a mactel * Yagisan is not a edubuntu dev <boricua> i see so the anwser is not YETTTTTT <Yagisan> basically, yes <boricua> MMM THE PC intel wont do either? <Yagisan> boricua: mactels use a different way to boot. they use EFI, while normal pc's use a BIOS. <Yagisan> the cd's won't start on a mactel <boricua> Yagisan: on the g4 the iso cd should boot fine though????? <Yagisan> boricua: might start. don't think it will work though <boricua> i am saying the iso for mac will work on the g4? <boricua> Yagisan, this link is the iso for the g4 ibook? Mac (PowerPC) desktop CD <boricua> For Apple Macintosh G3, G4, and G5 computers, including iBooks and PowerBooks. <boricua> not the mactell but a g4 ibook???? <Yagisan> yes, on a g4 it will work <boricua> ok downloading <boricua> this iso will not boot my g4 ibook any idea edubuntu-6.06-live-powerpc.iso <DanielC> what's the error? <boricua> i am not even sure if the boot order on the ibook has cd first its my sons ibook and i want to try to put edubuntu on it <boricua> DanielC, no error just boots from HD <DanielC> ah <DanielC> check the bios. <DanielC> it's probably set to boot from the hard disk first. <boricua> DanielC, how do i chk the bios on ibook? <crimsun> I don't think ibooks have bioses. <boricua> i know the mac cd will boot when its in there <DanielC> I've never used an ibook but on other machines you get a message of the sort "press F2 for setup" before it starts the operating system. <DanielC> crimsun: How is it possible for a computer to not have a bios? <crimsun> there's efi <DanielC> what's efi? <crimsun> essentially a bios implemented differently <boricua> first my q? how do i get the ibook to boot the edubuntu cd iso <DanielC> crimsun: then it's a bios. <DanielC> boricua: When you power on, do you see any message like "Press F2 to go to Setup" ? <boricua> no <boricua> all i see is an apple <crimsun> DanielC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface <DanielC> I found something on Google but I can't make sense of the instructions: <DanielC> http://www.computing.net/mac/wwwboard/forum/11478.html <boricua> i just ran into this let me try it http://seb.france.free.fr/linux/ibookG4/iBookG4-howto-2.html#ss2.2 <crimsun> DanielC: you can argue with its engineers whether it's bios or not <DanielC> It quacks like a duck... <donpaolo> Hi guys! What is the /usplash_fifo archive I have in my edubuntu dapper install? thank you! <crimsun> donpaolo: it's used for the usplash progress indicator <donpaolo> but $ ls -l /u* <donpaolo> prw-r----- 1 root root 0 2006-06-02 11:40 /usplash_fifo it doesn't seem a normal file. What is it? <crimsun> it's a pipe <crimsun> < crimsun> donpaolo: it's used for the usplash progress indicator <donpaolo> crimsun, but can I delete it? <crimsun> donpaolo: don't touch it unless you know what it does. <donpaolo> crimsun, ok, thank you <boricua> hitting the letter C while booting did the trick i did see some errors but it is loading as i type i will report later on progress <DanielC> glad it workd <DanielC> worked <boricua> i believe now days linux has more softare for kids that even mac, <DanielC> :-) <boricua> still loading i have my fingers crossed <boricua> so far lots of ok and 2 errors still loading :-) i feel like a kid right now <DanielC> :-) <DanielC> Should work alright. <DanielC> Have you used Ubuntu before? <boricua> yes i have 1 ubuntu server and 1 ubuntu desktop on my laptop <boricua> waooooo edubuntu on a ibook g4 looks nice if you want a screen shot let me know :-) <DanielC> Does it look different from a PC? <boricua> mouse much much slower so far looks the same :-) <DanielC> ok <boricua> network not working so far brb <DanielC> System > Preferences > Mouse to adjust the mouse speed. <boricua> DanielC, so far mouse still slow after adjusting it <DanielC> ok <boricua> wireless wont go up <boricua> well ill play with it later thxs for the help <DanielC> take care <lucasvo> boricua: wireless won't work out of the box because the drivers are proprietary <lucasvo> you need to set it up manually <lucasvo> boricua: ask in #ubuntu for help <lucasvo> boricua: maybe reading this will help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189329&highlight=airport+express <boricua> lucasvo:i see thxs #edubuntu 2006-07-03 <bddebian> Heya folks <jsgotangco> good morning <_dewey> are questions about installing edubuntu allowed here??? <crimsun> sure <bimberi> _dewey: absolutely! hopefully someone can help out :) <Burgundavia> _dewey: this is not a channel about edubuntu ;) <_dewey> I have downloaded and installed twice. I get only command line, not gui on installing. get gui from livecd. what am i doing wrong <bimberi> eek, 81 seconds lag :/ <bimberi> _dewey: probably nothing, possibly an issue with graphics drivers <_dewey> ok, thanks. I have another video board or another computer. I'll try again. Thanks again <bimberi> _dewey: try booting (to the text mode), logging in and 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' <_dewey> ok, I'll try ;that first <bimberi> _dewey: righto, that will ask lots of questions, the defaults are usually pretty good <bimberi> _dewey: once it finishes, try a 'sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart' and see if it gets the gui working <_dewey> ok thanks, I'll try both but must wait till morning. bedtime here in east texas. thanks agian. <bimberi> _dewey: np, sleep well :) * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <highvoltage> morning, #edubuntu <highvoltage> ogra: ping * mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage] by highvoltage <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage <bimberi_> hi highvoltage <highvoltage> hey bimberi_ <jsgotangco> hey <highvoltage> mr gotangco <jsgotangco> whats up? <highvoltage> 8:14 monday morning. drinking coffee and reading mail :) <highvoltage> trying to make sense of the week ahead. <jsgotangco> heh <jsgotangco> its 2:15pm here and im still trying to make sense of the week ahead <highvoltage> lol <bimberi_> 16:14 monday afternoon. drinking coffee and comtemplating heading home (with a visit to a nonresponsive remote box on the way) <bimberi_> :) <crimsun> 2:16 am and trying not to stress before a presentation in 8 hours <highvoltage> seems like we've got today covered ;) <jsgotangco> crimsun: you've been merging all night! <crimsun> <crimsun> err, sorry, crazy keypresses <cbx33> ok guys got a question for you <cbx33> is it normal for firefox to ignore a link to a file:/// if the page is contained on a web server <cbx33> if the page is a local file, then it works fine <jsgotangco> i believe it assumes its a local file, not a file contained within a webserver and waits for http instead <jsgotangco> man im bored * DanielC peeks in <DanielC> morning everyone <highvoltage> jsgotangco: what company do you work for? <highvoltage> morning DanielC <jsgotangco> highvoltage: at the moment? its a small company called Bugal Pty. Ltd. <highvoltage> i've never worked for a company that allowed me to get bored before :) <DanielC> :) <jsgotangco> highvoltage: work here is pretty much "spur of the moment" type i would love to get busy why not <jsgotangco> highvoltage: maybe not just with the work load but the environment itself :/ <highvoltage> jsgotangco: aaah. i understand. <cbx33> hi all <cbx33> ping pygi <ajaycc> hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <ajaycc> i got my cd :D <ajaycc> !hi <ubotu> I know nothing about hi <jsgotangco> hi <jsgotangco> hope you like the CD <ajaycc> i do <ajaycc> i am using ubuntu sice ver 3 <cbx33> hey jsgotangco <pygi> cbx33, how may I help you? :) <ajaycc> i wanna contribute now <jsgotangco> cbx33: good morning to you <ajaycc> can anyone tell me how <pygi> ajaycc, version 3? what's that? :P <cbx33> hi pygi just wondering how much exp you had with uimanager ? <jsgotangco> ajaycc: what are you interested in? <ajaycc> version 3 of ubuntu <ajaycc> anything that matters <ajaycc> :) <pygi> ajaycc, there was no version 3? :) <jsgotangco> ajaycc: you should be more specific than that or else we'll have you fix ltsp :P <ajaycc> lol <ajaycc> i am 16 <cbx33> ajaycc: what are you skilled at? <ajaycc> so tell me what i can do <ajaycc> well web designing <pygi> cbx33, o yes, btw. have you choosen your task for S-C-P? <jsgotangco> are you good at art? <ajaycc> a bit <jsgotangco> web design? <ajaycc> yeah <jsgotangco> writing help pages? <cbx33> pygi: not yet <jsgotangco> these are usual starting points to those new t the project <ajaycc> and i wanna make BIG name among the community :D <jsgotangco> ajaycc: it shouldn't be YOUR primary motive though <ajaycc> sure <cbx33> pygi: is there a way I can use slashes in a menuitem? <ajaycc> i was kidding <pygi> cbx33, oki, I'll try to take on my task as soon as possible <cbx33> it screws it up cos it thinks it's part of the path <jsgotangco> ajaycc: you can contribute wallpapers and stuff <cbx33> pygi: I suppose Ishould start thinking - I don;t want the impossible one <pygi> cbx33, :P <cbx33> AliasVegas could be becomming artwork team leader next council meeting <ajaycc> should i make my own page at wiki? <jsgotangco> cbx33: really? <cbx33> ajaycc: yes <cbx33> jsgotangco: possibly yes, she was approached by highvoltage and ogra <cbx33> just needs a vote by the council * jsgotangco spoils the vote <jsgotangco> :) <cbx33> pygi: whos doing the plugin interface? <pygi> cbx33, me :) <cbx33> ah cool <cbx33> do you know what everyone else is doing? <ajaycc> i am gonna idle here and contribute :D <jsgotangco> ajaycc: we always have community meetings every wednesday <ajaycc> nice <ajaycc> will be there <ajaycc> and yeah why didnt edubuntu was a livecd? <jsgotangco> so feel free to dive in and get a feel <ajaycc> any reason?? <jsgotangco> ajaycc: there's a live CD <ajaycc> jsgotangco: sure i will be there <jsgotangco> but only for workstation <ajaycc> jsgotangco: the cd i got is installation only <ajaycc> some mistake i guess <jsgotangco> ajaycc: it doesn't really make sense performance-wise to have an ltsp livecd <jsgotangco> no its meant to be <pygi> cbx33, yes, you do one more task, and ogra does the rest :P <ajaycc> jsgotangco: that is fine was just curios <jsgotangco> edubuntu, first and foremost, is a server solution <ajaycc> yeah <pygi> cbx33, tho,I'll help once I'm done with plugin stuff <cbx33> pygi: plugin stuff shouldn't be too difficult should it? <cbx33> just need some kind of small API right? <ajaycc> i am gonna install ubuntu, kubuntu and edubntu on my lappy seperately <jsgotangco> ajaycc: if you have a spare machine, you might want to play around with the server stuff, its really nice and shiny <cbx33> what about xubuntu? <ajaycc> i already got that <pygi> cbx33, nop, shouldn't be too difficult, that's why I said I'll help ogra on other taks as well <ajaycc> jsgotangco: i aint got extra machine :( <ajaycc> so gotta play with my lappy <cbx33> I'll help out on what ever I can, may need a bit of help sometimes pygi <cbx33> ajaycc: how fast is the lappy <cbx33> you could always use vmware <ajaycc> cant man <cbx33> y? <pygi> cbx33, no problem, you can always poke around me or someone:) <ajaycc> this is pentium M 740 256 MB DDR2 <jsgotangco> ahhh <cbx33> ajaycc: ah ok <jsgotangco> it'll crawl <ajaycc> :D <jsgotangco> ajaycc: you're always welcome to test the workstation though! <ajaycc> i will today <cbx33> pygi: can you point me in the direction of a task that hasn't been assigned and will be doable? <pygi> cbx33, sure, if you gimme url with taks (I forgot it :P) <cbx33> ok <cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelCompletion <pygi> thanks <pygi> what about Killing processes? <pygi> that should be easily doable <cbx33> yeh, ok <cbx33> I'll give that one a look <cbx33> are we using bzr? <jsgotangco> yes please! <pygi> cbx33, yes :) <ajaycc> my parents and school people think linux is crap <ajaycc> :( <cbx33> ajaycc: well, advocacy can be hard sometimes <cbx33> why do they think it's crap? <ajaycc> they are all mad <ajaycc> i am convincing our school head to install edubuntu <ajaycc> but he wont listen <cbx33> cool <ajaycc> that git <cbx33> aww <cbx33> I actually work for a school <cbx33> so I may be able to give you some pointers there <cbx33> on how to persuade <cbx33> we have a linux and windows system here <ajaycc> nice <ajaycc> mail me man <ajaycc> we got only windows <ajaycc> and the pc are shit <ajaycc> he is buying all new pc <ajaycc> i am telling him to buy a really good server <ajaycc> and get thin clients ready <ajaycc> and i told him i will take responsibility <cbx33> who acutally does all the installation <ajaycc> but that fool refused <ajaycc> i will <pygi> ajaycc, calm down :P <ajaycc> our teacher knows shit nothing else <ajaycc> :) <cbx33> is there not an IT team there? <ajaycc> heh <ajaycc> IT team is crap they dunno what is RAID and dunno what linux <cbx33> it that case <cbx33> that's probably why he doesn't want to move to a linux system <ajaycc> yeah <cbx33> if you're going to be supporting it <cbx33> what happens when you leave <cbx33> he's left with a good system, but if something goes wrong, limited options to get it fixed <pygi> ajaycc, what country are you anyway? <ajaycc> i will stay here man and i am ready to train a few dingbats <ajaycc> pygi: India <cbx33> plus, the whole teaching curriculum would have to be changed <ajaycc> cbx33: as it is each an everyday they install winxp cos it crashes everyday <ajaycc> cbx33: we just learn C++ nothing else <cbx33> I'm facing the same issues here <cbx33> you actually learn c++ at school? <ajaycc> i know it others do <cbx33> pygi: do we have a bzr url for scp? <ajaycc> i just sit there glaring at the teacher <pygi> cbx33, there is official one from ogra, and we should branch from it <ajaycc> staring not glaring :) <cbx33> pygi: ok grabbing it now <cbx33> the one on LP? <ajaycc> brb <pygi> cbx33, yes I believe <cbx33> ok <cbx33> am grabbing now <cbx33> pygi: the annoying thing is <cbx33> I want to develop on my laptop <cbx33> but I'll need clients logged in etc to do it <jsgotangco> cbx33: in most indian schools I know, they teach students to program, nothing more, and most of these students are too poor to buy a computer, so when they go to work, they only know how to program and have no clue in installing an OS...ive encountered such quite a number of times <jsgotangco> amazingly there are some really good programmers that sprang out of it <cbx33> jsgotangco: i see <cbx33> of course <cbx33> everything I learnt was off my own back <jsgotangco> when i was in hyderabad a few months ago, i even have to teach them how to make partitions <cbx33> crikey <jsgotangco> it surprised me as well <jsgotangco> i always get to learn lots of things when i travel and interact with people on technology <cbx33> jsgotangco: for me a day isn't worth it unless I've learnt something <jsgotangco> oh i learn something everyday no doubt <jsgotangco> but learning from outside is quite different <cbx33> true <jsgotangco> and you appreciate the simple things that most people are not able to get or comprehend <cbx33> i feel I havn't accomplished anything unless I learn <jsgotangco> in a way, even if its miniscule, im very proud to be involved in ubuntu and has probably made me more fulfilled in life <cbx33> me too <cbx33> and my contribution is smaller than yours :p <jsgotangco> it has become my vice <jsgotangco> im very thankful for the opportunities the project has given me <cbx33> yes <cbx33> I love working on *buntu so much <cbx33> I'm ever hopeful of working for Canonical one day <jsgotangco> its a nice goal its something i would think of as a bonus if it happened to me <cbx33> atm it's my goal <cbx33> I could do this work all day long <cbx33> I am able to affect a few people here, but working for them I feel I could do so much more <jsgotangco> i would like to do that too sometime <jsgotangco> or given the chance why not <cbx33> pygi: you still there? <pygi> cbx33, no :P <cbx33> do you have the scp code there? <pygi> where? :P <cbx33> do you have it available to look at? <pygi> nop, not ATM <cbx33> ok <cbx33> if you do <cbx33> if count: <cbx33> does it pass if count is only 1 <cbx33> or just anything greater than 0 <cbx33> ok just made one modification <cbx33> now I don;t get any errors if I run it without any users being connected <ogra> cbx33, you got errors ? <cbx33> yeh only one I fixed it if you want a patch <ogra> i never had any errors <cbx33> or I may be completely wrong <cbx33> the populate_procs function <cbx33> last 4 lines <cbx33> I think should be inside the if indent <cbx33> they are only useful if the previous 2 lines are ran anyway * ogra installs the package <cbx33> it was an uninitialised variable <ogra> oh, right i get that too <cbx33> it's because the machine I'm running it on has no ltsp server or clients on it <cbx33> I have to find a way to setup something so I can develop at home <ogra> that'll be hard <ogra> the ltsp connections dont use a login shell via ssh, so you dont have any pty's attached <cbx33> I know, but I can't really spend too much time developing here <ogra> keep that in mind .. <cbx33> work is enveloping me <cbx33> I'll have to just setup some vm's somewhere <cbx33> only problem is the main machine I'd use for testing has a very.....ooop nevermind I have a brilliant idea :D <cbx33> did you get the same error as I? <ogra> yep <cbx33> and does the flag parameter actually do anything? <ogra> user referenced before assignment <cbx33> it's never returned and from what I can see it's never set when populate_procs is called <cbx33> on line 52 <ogra> but please use try statemanes instead if if statements for such cases where possible <ogra> *statements <cbx33> you konw I didn;'t write the original right ;P ? <ogra> no, but if you add such tests, try is the better way ... :) <cbx33> right ok <cbx33> may I ask for what reason...so I can understand better? <cbx33> I'm hopefully going to get started on the kill procedure later <spacey> hi hi * DanielC waves <ogra> cbx33, its the error catching function ... and looks better in the code :) <cbx33> ok <cbx33> ogra: you said in a bzr comment that the kill button was hidden in the gui <cbx33> I don;t see it <cbx33> sorry in the spec <cbx33> not in the bzr comment <cbx33> am I ok to add it? <ogra> hmm, i thought i had added it already ... look through the bzr revisions, probably i dropped it at some point, just grab the bzr diff and reapply it :) <ogra> yay, my edubuntu CDs arrived :) <DanielC> ogra: Why do you need Edubuntu CDs? <highvoltage> mine too, just a few minutes ago :) <ogra> DanielC, to frame them ;) <highvoltage> (and Ubuntu CD's) <DanielC> really? <ogra> DanielC, well, i'll need them for talks etc to give away ... but these 5 are just for my closet <DanielC> :) <ogra> i'll get anotehr box with 500 the next weeks for some talks i'll hold ... <spacey> i should get some edubuntu cd's as well <spacey> but since only part of my mixed order was approved i have no idea how many <ogra> yeah, order them, share them ! <ogra> make us famous :) <spacey> i ordered a batch as well for my scheduled talks * cbx33 makes a note to order a few <spacey> ogra: there is some fundamental work being done to get linux to the primary schools in the netherlands <spacey> its in the early stages <spacey> so we just have to wait <ogra> cool <spacey> in anycase i'm involved with it <spacey> and making sure it will be edubuntu <spacey> :p <spacey> at least with a focus on edubuntu <ogra> i had a nice phonecall with a guy who works tight with the ministry of culture and arts in bayern, they are intrested too <spacey> thats nice <ogra> yeah <ogra> he wants to start a big PR campaign :) <cbx33> excellent <cbx33> how long till Richard starts? <ogra> 11days iirc <cbx33> ok <cbx33> I need to talk to him about BETT2007 <ogra> cbx33, btw, note that the s-c-p spec still isnt approved, there might still be changes in details <highvoltage> ogra: could you please go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuXfceDesktop ? <cbx33> ogra: ok cool <ogra> highvoltage, reading <highvoltage> ogra: i would like to put it up for review today, but not sure what else needs to be fixed <cbx33> ogra: could it be dropped altogether? <rodarvus> good morning <ogra> cbx33, nope, it has high priority and is on my list for implementations in dapper <ogra> err <ogra> edgy <highvoltage> morning rodarvus <ogra> morning rodarvus <cbx33> ok cool <cbx33> hi rodarvus <ogra> rodarvus, now i actually have been convinced by fabionne to watch some soccer and your people just loose ... what happened ? that was pretty ppor for .br <ogra> *poor <rodarvus> ogra, that was the worse football game ever <rodarvus> shame on us <rodarvus> praise zidane <ogra> well, old farts running after the ball ... your team needs fresh blood <rodarvus> I believe the problem was not their ages, but their egos <ogra> zidane had two or three enlightened moments, but wasnt great either i found ... <ogra> actually from three games i watched i found none to be world class <bimberi> ogra: you didn't see any of the Socceroo games then! :P <ogra> well, i watched germany<->argentinia ... italy<->ukraine and brazil<->france <ogra> neither was convincing ... <rodarvus> germany vs argentina was ok <rodarvus> "big" teams usually don't play beautiful football when playing against other big teams <ogra> yes, i didnt say it wasnt ok... but i'd have expected more from a "world championship" <rodarvus> it is believed that this could lead to a loss <ogra> i remember once i was brazil vs someone in a championship while zapping through the channels and i usualy never stop at sports, but it was so entertaining that i couldnt move on :) <ogra> s/was/saw/ <cbx33> ogra: I can't see the kill button in any of the diffs <ogra> there was nothing like that yet in this championship <cbx33> I'll just create it <rodarvus> ogra, also, most brazilians blame it on the coach+players ego <cbx33> :D <cbx33> ogra: what's your opinion on the flag parameter I mentioned earlier? <rodarvus> we believe another coach, such as Felipe Scolari (current coach of the Portugal squad) could have made it a completely different team <ogra> cbx33, we'll need to decide how to implement it in tne ui then ... <cbx33> that's what I though <cbx33> i think below the process list might be the most sensible place <cbx33> then we have consistency with the disconnect button below the users <ogra> it's placement should visually indicate where it applies to <ogra> and not break the design too much ... <bimberi> rodarvus: that would be in the teams approach wouldn't it? surely the players wouldn't change much - hi btw :) <cbx33> do you not think underneath the process list would? <ogra> rodarvus, but your coach won several championships already ... i bet he'd be capable :) <ogra> cbx33, sure i think under the processlist would ;) <cbx33> ok cool <rodarvus> bimberi, exactly <rodarvus> the main point is that Brazil never played as a "team", but instead, as a bunch of "starts" <ogra> well, you need to replace the players at some point <ogra> they get older ... no way around that <bimberi> rodarvus: stars or tarts ? ;P * rodarvus searchs on the dictionary for tarts :) <rodarvus> ogra, that too :) <rodarvus> bimberi, tart == clown? (in this case, I agree :) ) <Yagisan> tart ? <Yagisan> well, it's a desert, and a woman of loose morals down here <rodarvus> Yagisan, thats what wikipedia tells me too <bimberi> thankyou Yagisan, i was struggling to find the right words :) <bimberi> it's also used to describe someone (of any gender) who only does something if paid <Yagisan> I believe that paid variety has various names, but tart isn't one down here. * Yagisan looks at channel name - hmm, perhaps this channel may have younger people here <bimberi> that's why i was struggling <Yagisan> bimberi: I got good at trying to find other ways to describe things by marrying someone that is not a native speaker in my language. <Yagisan> works well (when we understand each other) <cbx33> hey Yagisan howz it going <Yagisan> cbx33: I seem to have caught a cold. Am mastering cmake, and divorcing doomsday and autotools. <Yagisan> cbx33: I also mets some motus in real life today <cbx33> cool <Yagisan> yes. I thought it was fascinating this place outside of IRC <ogra> highvoltage, your use cases need fleshing out ... <Yagisan> but I missed the nick highlighting when people mentioned me <ogra> highvoltage, * A poor school only has 5 old PIII machines, and needs to continue using these machines for an extended period. <ogra> highvoltage, add something like: they try edubuntu and find the xfce option, they install it and are happy (or something like that) <ogra> a use case should always be a positive thing solved by that spec in the end :) <highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks. good tip :) <cbx33> ogra: what about, they install it and go on a mad rampage to destroy Mircosoft <ogra> thats valid :) <cbx33> highvoltage: use that one, use that one :p <ogra> but you need to add positive bits :) <cbx33> hehehe <cbx33> the dark empire crumbles and linux reigns supreme <cbx33> ? <ogra> they install it and out of blind happyness about opne source software they go on a mad rampage to destroy Mircosoft <cbx33> ahhh i see <cbx33> got all caught up in the destruction of proprietary kernels <cbx33> if a router uses a linux kernel <cbx33> they should display GPL license somewhere <Yagisan> yes, but often they don't <cbx33> I have a belkin router <cbx33> and It is definitely a nix system <highvoltage> cbx33: how can you tell? <cbx33> well, ok I can't if functions exactly like a nix system <cbx33> if you know what I mean <cbx33> from the work they have done it would beSTUPID to do develop it from scratch <cbx33> ogra: do you think the process should be sorted? <cbx33> and also do you think that the list should auto update? <ogra> yes it should auto update and it should be sorted by process number ... <cbx33> ok <cbx33> i didn't see it auto update <cbx33> what's the frequency? <cbx33> and I noticed the process list and user name etc stay after the user has been disconnected <ogra> oh, i thought aou saked about implementing that :) <ogra> *asked <ogra> *you <cbx33> ah....hehe <cbx33> so it "should" but doesn't currently <ogra> currently it only spills out the processes <ogra> it would be nice if we could have icons like gnome-system-monitor has <cbx33> i think having the pid in the list would be useful too <ogra> that would make the ui useless ... <cbx33> is it normal for gconfd to be orphaned? <cbx33> the user has been disconnected but the process still remains <ogra> imagine an arts teacher who just knows how to click stuff, he must understand and use it <cbx33> ok <ogra> dont confuse him with weird numbers <ogra> (if you feel its needed, we can make it an option you can switch on/off <ogra> ) <cbx33> nah it's ok <cbx33> I see your point <ogra> but i see yours too :) <ogra> so it might be a good thing to have it optional <cbx33> well what about an advanced mode <cbx33> that turns some things on in the ui <cbx33> like a toggle button <cbx33> Simple/Advanced <ogra> we should at least have a set of options you can switch on or off ... i'm not a friend of discriminating users by telling them they are non advanced :) <cbx33> ok I see your point there <ogra> lets keep that stuff fro the plugin writers ;) <ogra> *for <cbx33> indeed <cbx33> pygi is doing the plugin framework <cbx33> isn't he? <ogra> we only want a basic app taht does what it should perfectly ... <ogra> i'm not talking about the framework :) <cbx33> no i know <cbx33> I was just askin <cbx33> g <ogra> feel free to write a plugin later that has an advanced/simple switch ;) <ogra> but yes, pygi volunteered for that <cbx33> I can see now how plugins would be mega easy for it <ogra> thats the plan :) * ogra grumbles at xscreensaver FTBFSing ... <ogra> damn typos <cbx33> ogra: who is cleaning up what is already there? <cbx33> all three of us? <ogra> feel free to clean up where you find ugliness :)+ <cbx33> heh not ugliness <ogra> i'll rename the branch these days to have a non versioned name btw ... <cbx33> just the host name/process list should be cleaned upon disconnecting a user <ogra> it does, no ? <cbx33> nope <cbx33> not here <cbx33> I just got a user to login and I disconnected them <ogra> running on a regular ubuntu ltsp ? <cbx33> but their name/host/proclist remained <cbx33> nope edubuntu <ogra> with the ubuntu ltsp package ?? <cbx33> i er, this is a dapper edubuntu box <ogra> and a thin client ? <cbx33> yes <ogra> (note i never tested with vmware and am not particulary interested in that) <cbx33> nope this is real clients <ogra> well, the next polling of the userlist should clean up... <cbx33> ogra: tbph vmware should not have any bnearing on it at all <cbx33> ogra: ah, my last bug fix would fix it then <ogra> which means it should avnish withinn the next 5 secs or so from the UI after a user disconnected <cbx33> it's grumbling about the user variable again <cbx33> it was onyl one user after all <ogra> there is a function that refreshes in a given interval ... <cbx33> I'm gonna try again <ogra> poll#_userlist or something <cbx33> and apply my fix <DanielC> How do you make 'diff' produce output that can be used by 'patch' ? <ogra> sorry i cant discuss that now, we have a deadline for merges i have to do now <ogra> DanielC, diff -ruN oldfile newfile <DanielC> thanks <ogra> rodarvus, btw, how is X going ? <cbx33> sorry ogra <rodarvus> ogra, I'm researching all changes that are going to be needed (for the first step, at least), and writing a spec for it <rodarvus> I believe I'll have something palateable until the end of the day, tomorrow <rodarvus> (but by no means a "complete" spec) <rodarvus> the list of changes is huge <rodarvus> *huge* <ogra> cbx33, we have dedicated feature development time, all merges have to be done by jul 13th, after that i can concentrate on details of new features <cbx33> ogra: np <cbx33> I'll bug you in 10 days then <rodarvus> 25+ new packages and counting (and almost the same number of obsoleted packages) <ogra> rodarvus, yep, i expected that, i still wonder why we dont just go on maintaining our own packages <cbx33> ogra: is ther ea plan to put moin-desktop in edgy? <ogra> the are built upstream compatible, we would just have to renew the orig.tar.gz's and probably dol some minro changes <ogra> *they <rodarvus> maintaining our own X packages is insane, actually - even bigger work - Debian X packages are in a much better state than ours <rodarvus> switching to their packages, we will only need to worry about our own changes <ogra> sure, but ours were built by an upstream xorg guy who had in mind that they are as comaptible as possiblle to the upstream sources ... <ogra> indeed they were unmaintained over the half last release <rodarvus> thats daniels, right? <cbx33> ogra: as I'm finding bugs and things to do, should I put them on LP? or do we not use that for devel? <ogra> but apart from easier syncability i dont really see the advantage in syncing <ogra> yep <rodarvus> ogra, in theory, we'll have less trouble/work maintaining them in the future <ogra> cbx33, malone is the right place :) <cbx33> ok * cbx33 gets buggin <ogra> rodarvus, well, that has to be proofed :) <rodarvus> :) <ogra> my theory was that we are nearer to upstream than debian ... so it would be easier to stay with upstream :) <ogra> but indeed that needs the manpower we dont have yet <rodarvus> ogra, I agree, but we have half (?) X maintainer - debian has four, or more :) <ogra> yep <ogra> finally xscreensaver built ... <ogra> will be fun to redo all the build deps again (i just did that in dapper, now all x lib names change again) <rodarvus> yep :/ <rodarvus> it might happen that we are not even able to complete the job for edgy <rodarvus> really depends on the desired quality :D <ogra> well, we need to release with something working :) <rodarvus> haha <rodarvus> indeed <ogra> in some way or the other :) <rodarvus> at least just barely >:-) <jsgotangco> good evening <DanielC> yo <rodarvus> timezones are great stuff <rodarvus> its early morning down here :D <DanielC> It's early afternoon here :) <jsgotangco> rodarvus: rodrigo! <rodarvus> jsgotangco: jerome! <jsgotangco> how's things? how was your weekend? <rodarvus> cold :) <rodarvus> well, for us brazilians, at least <jsgotangco> nice <cbx33> ping Yagisan <jsgotangco> rodarvus: ping <rodarvus> jsgotangco, pong <jsgotangco> how do you feel rejecting abandoned bugs after making a follow up for xorg and company? <jsgotangco> :D <rodarvus> heh <jsgotangco> im serious <rodarvus> I was thinking about this subject this morning, actually <jsgotangco> :D <rodarvus> I know <jsgotangco> i made a couple of follow ups before paris no reply <jsgotangco> fabio said he does that all the time <rodarvus> I guess I'd just leave as needinfo for a while and reject them when a new version is released <jsgotangco> doh that would be like october! <rodarvus> ('please reopen if you find this bug in the new version') <jsgotangco> well yeah i would most likely say that in a rejection notice <rodarvus> jsgotangco, this bug was here before dapper? <jsgotangco> we get lots of bugs for milestone releases <jsgotangco> that usually get abandoned <rodarvus> if so, you can do it already, given enough time for the reporter to manifest <jsgotangco> the problem with needs info is that it can get smothered by the glut of bugs in xorg so it takes a while to sort it out <jsgotangco> some of them have been completely forgotten, i make a follow up and i get a reply that they sold the card or the laptop already :D <rodarvus> these cases are clearly candidates for rejection <jsgotangco> yeah <DanielC> REVU sucks <jsgotangco> don't complain here <DanielC> I tried to upload something, it failed, and now I can't manage to use dcut to clarn it. <DanielC> :( <Yagisan> pong cbx33 <jsgotangco> goodnight <Yagisan> !seen hedgemage <ubotu> I last saw HedgeMage (i=HedgeMag@freenode/staff/HedgeMage) 19h 12m 31s ago, quiting: "Real Life Calls!" <DanielC> cool <DanielC> !seen DanielC <ubotu> DanielC is on IRC right now! <Yagisan> I thought so too <DanielC> :) * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <highvoltage> ogra: i honestly don't know what else to add to the xfce spec, i put it up for review again <ogra> i saw that, lets see if the level of detail in the implementation/design suffices :) <highvoltage> yep :) <highvoltage> we're moving office this week, i can't wait until that's over, then i can finally get down to work again. <highvoltage> our new offices are at an ISP, and we are getting a 10mbit/s internet connection there, something that's unheard of in .za *g* <ogra> cool <highvoltage> two weeks from now i'm going to jo'burg, and then i'll get a chance to work on the diskless-fat-clients stuff. <highvoltage> i talked to jim and scott, and if possible, they will merge from my branch to ltsp upstream <highvoltage> it give me a good chance to get bzr figured out properly. <ogra> -> dinner <highvoltage> enjoy. <highvoltage> ogra: have you seen the post to edubuntu-users about seeing the thin client hostname on LDM? <juliux> hi everybody <highvoltage> that could perhaps be further functionality for ldmd <highvoltage> hi juliux <ogra> highvoltage, ldm already reads /etc7hostname ... <juliux> how are you highvoltage ? <ogra> we just need to make sure to set it right <highvoltage> ogra: ok, i think i grok. where does ldm get //ltsp from then? or is /etc/hostname not set correctly? <highvoltage> i should probably just investigate :) <highvoltage> juliux: i'm feeling good. how are you? <juliux> not good * juliux have to work the whole day with windows <ogra> /etc/hostname is set on boot <ogra> (of the client) <ogra> if there is a dns server and it can look up the name it will set it <ogra> iirc <highvoltage> hmmm... i'm not sure what to answer to Phillipe <highvoltage> i'm also getting all my edubuntu-users mail thrice, which is a bit annoying :/ <highvoltage> ogra: did you get that password for that list? <ogra> i have it since the list is public ... i wanted to set a new one in paris and share it with you ... <ogra> sinc ethats only a hash ... no password you could remember ... <highvoltage> ok, could you possibly check my subscription? i think i might be susbcribed more than once with different addresses. <highvoltage> and sorry to bother you with different things williamsmith@example.net. :) <Laser_away> highvoltage: still around? <DanielC> Laser_away: I've uploaded my first .deb to Revu :) <Laser_away> cool <DanielC> I hope I did it right. <DanielC> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2587 <crimsun> version it -0ubuntu1 <DanielC> Ok. <crimsun> I presume you want it in Debian, too <DanielC> I'd like that, yes. <DanielC> Does -0 mean that it's not in Debian yet? <crimsun> in which case it's probably better to concentrate your effort to get it into Debian, since we can just sync <crimsun> generally yes. <DanielC> Do I need to run both "debuild -S" and "debuild"? Or just "debuild -S"? <crimsun> I always use -S <Laser_away> debuild -S gives you the source package <DanielC> ok <crimsun> then I either sbuild or pbuild <DanielC> What's a source package anyways? <DanielC> Considering that this package is not compilable code. <Laser_away> Burgwork: well, I still don't know how this is going to work, tbh the KDE stuff kinda got in the way <EmxBA> hi everyone <EmxBA> I've finnaly got some time to talk on IRC :) <Laser_away> Burgwork: I think we will probably ship sabayon profiles provided that sabayon is fixed and we can get it to use groups <EmxBA> hi pygi! <Burgwork> LaserJock, ok <Burgwork> highvoltage, ping re: edubuntu case study #edubuntu 2006-07-04 <LaserJock> hmm, so what happens to specs that aren't approved by the deadline? are they defered to edgy+1? <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco <jsgotangco> good morning <Amaranth> LaserJock: You can still do them. <crimsun> they're sent down the TUBES OF INTERNET HELL. http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 <Amaranth> LaserJock: the approved specs are just "we want this done" <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i heard this strange news today regarding a candidacy in Nevada <LaserJock> oh really? <jsgotangco> yeah former adult movie star <LaserJock> hmm, haven't heard about that, but wouldn't doubt it, a adult movie star ran for govenor of California not long ago :-) <jsgotangco> LaserJock: http://mimi4governor.com/ <LaserJock> hmm, somehow I just don't think I'll be voting for her ;-) <jsgotangco> lol <jsgotangco> i just heard it from the local news because she's filipina by birth and was an immigrant so... <jsgotangco> hehe <LaserJock> I see <LaserJock> I wondered <jsgotangco> hehe <LaserJock> I haven't really paid much attention to the races here, although the billboard signs are starting to pop up all over the place <Burgundavia> LaserJock: specs can be picked up and work on by anyone. In fact, our open spec engine makes us completely unique among all distros <jsgotangco> yeah <Burgundavia> that is why those brazilian guys are working on the network wide updates spec <LaserJock> I'm just worried about getting this dynamic-menus spec done, I'm afraid I'm not knowledgable enough right now to get a good draft <jsgotangco> was it reviewed? <LaserJock> once, in Paris <LaserJock> and then Corey thrashed it a bit earlier today :-) <jsgotangco> thats fine although your time is a bit limited already... <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i am not surprised <LaserJock> all the KDE stuff from aaron threw me off <jsgotangco> it is quite nice admittedly <LaserJock> right, but we don't ship kiosktool in Edubuntu, right? <LaserJock> I can see were is somebody wants to use KDE + Edubuntu it makes sense that we reduce duplication, etc. <jsgotangco> no <jsgotangco> you really have to hack up sabayon just to make it happen <LaserJock> right <jsgotangco> because if you hardcode the menu structure, seb will be pissed off <LaserJock> right <LaserJock> but it still seems a bit odd to me to use sabayon to create group driven menus <LaserJock> it's quite overkill for a menu editor, although I was thinking that it might be handy to change more than just the menu by group <LaserJock> ok, so I have a few questions still <LaserJock> 1) should I just focus on shipping sabayon profiles and not worry about KDE right now? <LaserJock> well, actually that's sort of it <LaserJock> 2) are the "groups" from the normal *nix /etc/group or do we want a new file like what Aaron seemed to be talking about? <jsgotangco> its only KDE specific for that <LaserJock> 2)? <LaserJock> because they don't use /etc/group? <jsgotangco> i remeber vaguely its just a flat file and it looks like a bit like active directory <LaserJock> reminded me of a .desktop but yeah <Amaranth> LaserJock: Different menus for different groups? <Amaranth> Basically you need some way to set XDG_CONFIG_DIRS based on the group of the logged in user (then gnome-menus will load the applications.menu and etc for that group) and some extension of alacarte or something to modify "root" menus for the different groups. <LaserJock> Amaranth: I'm not sure if it's that easy for us or not <HedgeMage> hi guys <bddebian> Heya <jsgotangco> hi bddebian <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco <mhz> hi all <bddebian> Hello mhz <mhz> bddebian: hi there <jsgotangco> mhz: mauricio! <mhz> jsgotangco: jerome! <mhz> :) * mhz is using Gaim for IRC now, just to test it out <jsgotangco> yukkkk <jsgotangco> its the most unnatural irc client out there * mhz does tries to use only shipped apps <jsgotangco> yeah i hear ya <jsgotangco> but irssi is also shipped <jsgotangco> :D <mhz> is it? <mhz> xterm!! <jsgotangco> yes <mhz_> mhz: hi there from irssi <mhz> hehe <mhz> it does work <jsgotangco> of course <mhz> yeah, but i never tried it before <mhz> jsgotangco: you participate in a11y? <jsgotangco> yes but im no expert i just participate on tests <mhz> hmmm <jsgotangco> i dont think gaim is a11y friendly/compliant <mhz> I have VERY cool news and I dont know how to handle it <jsgotangco> from the looks of it <sbalneav> Evening all <jsgotangco> look for TheMuso, he's more adept into a11y and very much involved in it for ubuntu aside from heno <jsgotangco> sbalneav: scotty! <sbalneav> hey hey hey jsgotangco!! <mhz> jsgotangco: oh, thx <mhz> evening sbalneav <jsgotangco> mhz: there's going to be a very interesting a11y feature for edgy... <mhz_> mhz: hi there from irssi <mhz> jsgotangco: which is...? (i apologize but last 3 weeks were terribly hectic <jsgotangco> SpeakUp <mhz> hmmm <mhz> interesting <jsgotangco> TheMuso is sight-impaired so he knows the issues very well <mhz> jsgotangco: got any videos of henrik programming or working on web mastering stuff? <jsgotangco> nope <mhz> jsgotangco: i have been invited to do an edubuntu demo tomorrow morning, at the Teleton Institute (Institute that helps children or anyone to walk again, to start using new arms, etc. <jsgotangco> that is awesome! <mhz> if they like base edubuntu demo, I'll be asked to demo a11y stuff <mhz> I AM TERRIFIED <mhz> if this really works... it will mean to implement edubuntu + a11y labs all over Chile <mhz> about 13 region <mhz> s <mhz> it is not huge amount of computers BUT it is huge load of work <mhz> they were very impressed by FET demos <mhz> it is a pity TheMuso could not come to Chile for FET (yeah, Paris was mor eimportant of course) <mhz> I now have zero clue how to demo anything related to a11y <mhz_> exit * mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ <highvoltage> Burgwork: pong <Burgundavia> highvoltage: well hey <Burgundavia> highvoltage: when is a good time to talk about an edubuntu case study. I don't have a list of questions but shall we do it via email? <highvoltage> Burgundavia: edubuntu or tuxlabs? <Burgundavia> highvoltage: edubuntu in the tuxlabs <highvoltage> i think if it's edubuntu, it should include ogra and rodarvus and richardw <Burgundavia> a case study is a story about how you deployed Edubuntu and why you did so <Burgundavia> designed to be read by policy makers <highvoltage> ok, we're moving this week, but i'll have some computer time <highvoltage> when are good times for you, are you around 16:00 UTC? <Burgundavia> that is pretty early <highvoltage> anything after 19:00 UTC? <Burgundavia> why don't I send you a list of questions by email and we can do it each on our own time <highvoltage> ok, that sounds good. <Burgundavia> ZA to CA is pretty hard. Makes it hard to contact that part of my family <highvoltage> yep :/ <Burgundavia> however, I don't have an email for you <highvoltage> you can send me a few questions at a time too, or as they pop up, no rush <highvoltage> i just received a nice article i can give you... just a few secs... <Burgundavia> i will bang something out now and then see what I can do <highvoltage> http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/tuxlabs.pdf <Burgundavia> that is great. I can glean a great deal from that <Burgundavia> highvoltage: initial questions sent <highvoltage> Burgundavia: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/jonathan.pdf <Burgundavia> highvoltage: I have to crash. if you didn't get that email I just sent you, ping Burgwork * cbx33 has been trying to get xgl working * cbx33 has failed <cbx33> one machine generates an X error when running gnome-window-decorator <cbx33> the other can't install compiz <cbx33> because of a libsvg-cairo dependency error <cbx33> :( <highvoltage> cbx33: we don't have pity for people with XGL problems
{'channel': 'edubuntu', 'month': 7}