#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-04 <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> hmm oh yeah morning <palhmbs> some excellent rain, makes this a ððððððð morning, man was it getting dry <Bacta> Hi guys <ibeardslee> morning Bacta <Bacta> What's up? <ibeardslee> The sun <Bacta> True <Bacta> Where are you in NZ? <ibeardslee> Welly <Bacta> Oh same here <Bacta> Just out by the airport <Bacta> Wellingtron <ibeardslee> any Qantas planes sitting on the ground out that way? <ajmitch> isn't it just the A380s they've grounded? * ajmitch wouldn't think they'd try & land one of them at wellington <Bacta> No but Hilary's is <Bacta> Parked out by the airforce base <Bacta> It's a 737-800 by the looks of it <ibeardslee> the President's ;) <Bacta> If you believe John Key then she is <Bacta> He referred to her as "President Clinton" yesterday, such a moron <ajmitch> you can always count on our PM for a bit of humour <ibeardslee> I have trouble believing a word that tool says <Bacta> Hell yes :( <ibeardslee> I hope NZ remembers when it comes around to the next election <Bacta> Me too <ibeardslee> broken promises <Bacta> I want the Goff Father * ajmitch doesn't think phil goff will really be inspiring, national will probably have to screw up quite a bit for people to change government <Bacta> ajmitch: But it's already happening <Bacta> GST, National Standards, Private Prisons, Tax <Bacta> It may take two terms but they won't do 9 years <ibeardslee> Phil doesn't have the 'aura' to lead the country <ajmitch> whether that's enough for people to care <ajmitch> ibeardslee: neither did bill english :) <ibeardslee> true <Bacta> I think Phil's problem is he's had the media saying he couldn't do it from the get go <ibeardslee> that as well <Bacta> If you say something enough people will eventually believe it <ibeardslee> Helen was always going to be a hard act to follow <Bacta> True <ajmitch> while I certainly didn't like her, I think many could still admire her for how she got stuff done <Bacta> Heh, they had a cartoon in the paper the day after the election showing John Key setting up his office in Helen Clark's shoe <Bacta> I think the same does apply to Goff <ibeardslee> ajmitch: well until the last while anyway .. then I think they/she lost the way <Bacta> Christ, it's 9am ... I need to think about going to work * ajmitch thankfully got into work before it got too wet here <Bacta> I think I would get in trouble for going on IRC at work <Bacta> In fact we have to use a proxy to access git <ibeardslee> 'essential communication tool' here <Bacta> *hub <Bacta> Where's here? <Bacta> Out of curiosity? <ibeardslee> Catalyst <Bacta> Nice <Bacta> I do IT work for a company in Miramar <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-05 <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-06 <Bacta> Hai! * Atamira burps <Atamira> its the weekend <Bacta> Indeed it is <Atamira> youd be lucky to get many replies on the weekend <Bacta> I wasn't aware that geeks had social lives <Atamira> those with families..yeah <Atamira> mine is older now, so im free to do what i like * Bacta is wondering when he's going to get banned <Atamira> if you're polite, you wont be banned <Atamira> if you've already pissed off the ops <Atamira> then your guess is as good as mine <Bacta> I have haha <Atamira> tsk tsk <Bacta> And I was told today that I'm supposedly barred from the entire Ubuntu namespace <Atamira> then it was nice knowing you <Atamira> what did you do? <Bacta> But here I am <Bacta> Oh a bunch of things <Bacta> From memory I made jokes about the name of an Ubuntu release <Bacta> You know, how they're named after monkeys and stuff <Bacta> I don't really care about them though <Bacta> Doesn't stop me from contributing to Ubuntu here in NZ <Atamira> only one release is named after monkeys <Atamira> theya re named after animals <Atamira> have you tried club ubuntu? <Bacta> Yep, good channel <Atamira> so sit in there a whine <Atamira> fireworks <Bacta> Unofficial, no oligarchs <Bacta> Whine about what? <Bacta> What's with the hostility? I do not understand it <ikonia> Atamira: are you an op in #ubuntu-nz ? <Atamira> nope <ikonia> ah <ikonia> hence why you're not aware of "bacta" then <Atamira> nope, not until he mentioned it #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-07 <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> morning <chilts> morning * chilts hasn't done that in a while <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-08 <Atamira> afternoon <ibeardslee> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=392653 <ajmitch> that's the newer model? <ibeardslee> yeap <ibeardslee> although doesn't mention the touchscreen <ajmitch> doesn't look too bad, though only the CPU looks different from the 5102 <ibeardslee> there is a N550 CPU that goes into the 5103 as well <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> seems like a nice sunny day so far, let's see if it stays that way :) <Atamira> was sunny when i left work...its a tad cloudy now <Atamira> wheres palhmpbs when you need him <ajmitch> looks like we've scared him off <Atamira> heh * thumper rubs sleep out of his eyes <thumper> at least it is a nice day <ibeardslee> should be a beautiful day <ibeardslee> although the NZOSA is on tonight <snail> if anyone hasn't seen it: me eating humble pie: http://nzetc.blogspot.com/2010/11/copyright-mistakes.html <ajmitch> oops <snail> ajmitch: search and replace gone wrong, changing not 2 works but >3000 <ajmitch> that's a big ouch, and quite a hit to performance from the sound of that blog post? <ibeardslee> oops <snail> ajmitch: yeah, takes us ~ a week to regenerate all the epubs <snail> and the website runs with a 4 GB disk cache for the common expensive pages #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-09 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-10 <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <ajmitch> sounds like there was some fun at the canonical offices in london <ibeardslee> oh? <ajmitch> they're in the same building as the UK conservative party <thumper> yeah <ajmitch> who just proposed a massive increase in uni fees, so there were some rioting students #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-11 <genbattle> hiyas <ojwb> evening <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> morning <hads> Morn <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> ahh yes <Atamira> the usual suspects have arrived..done their thing * ajmitch sleeps now <Atamira> and wandered off <zapzupnz> sleep? now? o.o <ajmitch> you wouldn't expect us to have conversations in here, would you? * zapzupnz just fot up <Atamira> nope <Atamira> i just got in from work..so i will be sleeping soon <ajmitch> zapzupnz: yeah, I just got to work :) <zapzupnz> ah, lol. right. <zapzupnz> Atamira: shift work? <Atamira> yeah..permanent graveyards <Atamira> love it * ajmitch hopes it doesn't get up to about 28C again today <zapzupnz> how can you sleep during the day during the summer? unless you live down south <ajmitch> down south, where the days are even longer & it still gets rather hot? <zapzupnz> can't be as bad as up north, where there's so much humidity it becomes solid matter <zapzupnz> mind you, it's good. it rains a lot. <ajmitch> central otago is usually dry & hot, but it still felt humid enough in dunedin yesterday <zapzupnz> apparently the place to be is the west coast. it's a nice enough place such that you wouldn't mind the temps <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> and if you don't mind rainfall being measured in metres <zapzupnz> i don't. everywhere i've lived must've been run by a rain god for mayor <hads> I was on holiday in northern Queensland at Easter and we had a meter of rain in 2 days. <ibeardslee> I lived in QLD as a kid .. I remember having to go out in the morning to break the ice on the goats' water buckets and then deal with 35+ degrees in the afternoon <ibeardslee> insane <Atamira> zapzupnz, you get used to it. i keep my room coolish and dark in the summer <Atamira> all else fails, i have a fan as well <zapzupnz> fair enough <zapzupnz> ibeardslee: geez, what a jump. <zapzupnz> sounds like 'every season in a day' weather most be fairly common <zapzupnz> up that way <zapzupnz> my mum lives in qld now, she complains that the weather can't decide what it is, and she's always wearing something much too thick by day's end <Atamira> i lived in nsw for 8 yars <Atamira> the weather there is the same <Atamira> tho it doesnt get as hold.. <Atamira> hot that is <snail> ibeardslee: sounds like you needed to make the goats watering troughs out of a material with thermal mass (i.e. stone) <hads> Stone troughs still freeze <mwhudson> morning <zapzupnz> mornin' #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-13 <codyc1515> hey all <codyc1515> anyone there? <zapzupnz> yeah <zapzupnz> hello :) <codyc1515> hi there <zapzupnz> ahoy <codyc1515> im looking to become a member of the nz team <zapzupnz> ah, now i'm not the person to talk to <zapzupnz> i just sort of sit here <codyc1515> oh ok <zapzupnz> you'll probably also be best served asking on the list, too <codyc1515> ill try and work it out <codyc1515> it seems easy <codyc1515> yep <codyc1515> ok <codyc1515> im on the list now <zapzupnz> so what do you think you can bring to the nz team anyway? <zapzupnz> just being nosey <codyc1515> um <codyc1515> maybe some web programming skills ?? <codyc1515> hmm <codyc1515> im already a member... <codyc1515> if i must comment on something <codyc1515> everytime i try to introducer a user to ubuntu from windows <codyc1515> they complain that the close, maximise, minimise buttons are on the wrong side <zapzupnz> i like that <zapzupnz> "wrong side" <zapzupnz> rather than "different side" #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-14 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <karora> morning <snail> morning <snail> amazing how much damage a single backhoe can do to the intertubes in this country <ibeardslee> yeap <ajmitch> someone decided to cut up a few strings? <ibeardslee> some power went boom <ajmitch> ah, the little problems in wellington <snail> myself and a government agency are having a disagreement over what constitutes a copyright license for content. anyone know whether there's a local version of debian-legal or any local debian-legal participant i can have a chat with? <ajmitch> for actual legal advice you'd want to talk to a lawyer <ajmitch> as nice as debian-legal is, it's still just opinions from people who don't necessarily have a firm grounding in law :) <mwhudson> morning <chrismsnz> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-15 <hads> Morning <ibeardslee> good of you to join us ;) <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> mutter mutter evil hp mutter <ibeardslee> priced a laptop for a collegue .. 31c more for FreeDOS instead of Windows <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> this comes as no surprise <ibeardslee> that would imply that each time I use Windows .. MS needs to pay me 31 cents <ajmitch> Somehow I don't think they'll see it like that <ajmitch> Maybe that it'd be 31c over the life of the computer <ibeardslee> well it does mean that it costs less than free software .. so I should be able to install it to what ever machine I want. .. no? <ajmitch> no <ajmitch> MS in their infinite generosity have given you a license to use it on one machine <ibeardslee> but it costs less than free software. <ibeardslee> I think it is time to look further afield for linux laptops than HP <ajmitch> how I love screwing up upgrades & having to use obscure apt options to force it through :) <Atamira> dont dell have linux laptops? <Atamira> granted, not on the nz dell website <Atamira> what about laptops with no OS on it ibeardslee ? <ibeardslee> Atamira: where from? Happy to go that way if I can find them .. for sale and supported in NZ. <ibeardslee> I tried getting a Dell laptop in NZ without Windows. Clearly on their website, until you go to buy it. <ibeardslee> When I called asking about it, they removed it from the nz website <Atamira> yeah...its not available here..wasnt in oz either when i was there <Atamira> http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php <Atamira> they had laptops and desktops with no OS on them <ibeardslee> we are now getting our PCs from Silicon Systems in Petone <Atamira> we have one of those up here in auckland <Atamira> but pbtechnologies in cheaper <Atamira> tho they do add the gst on it AFTER wards <ibeardslee> unfortunately they sell Toshiba laptops .. which although nice hardware .. Toshiba told me they won't sell laptops without Windows <hads> ibeardslee: Not surprising at all, I've had several suppliers of Linux laptops arrive and then disappear over the years. <ojwb> morning <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> my partner's just upgraded to lucid, and spent some time hunting through the desktop config options trying to move the buttons back to the right <ojwb> she couldn't believe you can change all sorts of theme frippery, but not that <mwhudson> ojwb: http://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/ <ojwb> they don't seem to work * ajmitch preferred the windows 3.1 layout * ojwb thinks these overlapping windows are a passing fad #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-16 <ibeardslee> crossing fingers I may have throttled HP enough to do 'the right thing' <ojwb> knock 0.31$ off the price? <ojwb> or add it to the windows ones more likely! <ibeardslee> actually being able to point to a windows laptop saying I want that with freedos and knowing that it'll be $x less than the windows price <ajmitch> HP are such strong supporters of open source in some areas, and seemingly quite against it in others <ibeardslee> currently waiting to discover if it is just the 'business' range, how much 'x' will be and if I have spoken too soon <ibeardslee> ajmitch: as it was explained to me that NZ is just a small market <ajmitch> and the number of people who'd want a non-standard install is a tiny fraction of a small market? <ibeardslee> peronally I don't accept that .. well I accept that we are a small market, but in the whole interweb thing .. it's a global market <ibeardslee> if something is available in the US, there should minimal reasons for restricting them to that market <ajmitch> right, but global market doesn't mean that they can ignore that they are shipping physical products <ajmitch> it'd be more of an internal company issue, that they probably have a different section of the company dealing with asia-pacific <ibeardslee> eg why can't we have this here .. http://icanhaz.com/hp-8540w <ibeardslee> ajmitch: it probably costs the same to ship from the US as it does from where ever in asia the build the machines that end up in nz <lifeless> ibeardslee: so the limits are support, marketing material, warehousing, presales knowledge <lifeless> ibeardslee: dell are the same, eu and us they'll sell with Ubuntu, but its rare elsewhere. <ibeardslee> limits with support .. meh, all HP support goes via somewhere else anyway <ibeardslee> marketing material .. meh, the marketing will be coming from the OSS communities when people ask where they can get laptops without Windows <ibeardslee> presales knowledge .. meh .. see above <lifeless> ibeardslee: thats your opinion; the suits opinion is what matters. <ibeardslee> sure it's my opinion. but my opinion of what the community may be able to do is better than what a suit thinks is reasonable. <ibeardslee> there is much too much "but the suits opinions" etc going on <ibeardslee> if we let the suits opinions manage what we can do, we'd all be running windows with iPhones and the OSS industry/community wouldn't exist <ojwb> ibeardslee: Bdale Garbee is a DD and works for HP - might be worth talking to him if you get stuck <ojwb> apparently it's their policy to make sure stuff things work under Linux, though I'm not sure how official that is <ajmitch> he's the linux CTO at HP * ojwb didn't know that, but I knew he was fairly senior <ajmitch> I believe HP even had some netbook with an ubuntu derivative, and a custom HP UI <ibeardslee> ojwb: from my experience this issue is not getting HP gear working with Linux, but more the ease of getting it without the Legacy OS in the first place. <ojwb> sure, I'm just saying that there is at least some internal pro-linux-ness <ibeardslee> with them supporting LCA, there is bound to be <ibeardslee> with them supporting LCA, yes there is <ojwb> true <ajmitch> & sponsoring a number of debian machines <ibeardslee> but that seems to be the server end .. I'm working from workstation, end user end * You're now known as ubuntulog * You're now known as ubuntulog_ * You're now known as ubuntulog <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> so it seems the suits saw the light <ibeardslee> We/HP can offer you a FreeDOS version of any 'commercial' <ibeardslee> Windows desktop or notebook on our website. <ibeardslee> The saving would be $200 off the list price of a Windows 7 <ibeardslee> Professional SKU <Atamira> yay ? <ibeardslee> This option would not be available on Consumer items because <ibeardslee> these products are not configurable using the CTO tool <ibeardslee> That's where 'We' = Ascent <ibeardslee> I believe that deal should alos be available through other resellers/retailers <ibeardslee> Atamira: Yes, that is a 'yay' :) <Atamira> yay ! <Atamira> tho hp..mrrr <ibeardslee> I'm going to be asking if HP can do a press release (in conjunction with Ascent? and NZOSS) about this. <Atamira> if its good publicity for you <Atamira> why not <Atamira> my company does all its PC stuff through Dell * ibeardslee doesn't work for Ascent or HP <Atamira> then who is ascent? <ibeardslee> I had bought Dell at a previous job, but after massive fail on their part I just won't go there again <ibeardslee> http://www.ascent.co.nz/ <ibeardslee> they've been the poor people stuck between HP and a raving fanatic <Atamira> ahh <Atamira> probably why i hadnt heard of them before <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> ascent are reasonably well known as an online retailer <ajmitch> they've generally been pretty decent over the years <Atamira> do they carter to the general public or mainly to commercial owners? <Atamira> sorry..commercial users <ajmitch> general public <ibeardslee> yeah, we don't even get a discout through them <Atamira> do they have a store in auckland? <Atamira> i have 4 local pc places <thumper> morning <ajmitch> they appear to have only a wellington store, coincidentally in catalyst house <ajmitch> & they don't hold stock there, it's pretty much just an online business <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> nite all <Atamira> i love working graveyard shifts <karora> chilts: Just signing up for AppsDNS and found it odd that the 'sign up' buttons on the front page weren't links. #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-17 <thumper> I need a one liner command to pipe into to take input like "/a/b/c/d/.foo/e/g" and print out "/a/b/c/d" <thumper> I'm sure either sed or awk could do this <thumper> but my fu is low in these <mwhudson> thumper: | sed -e 's%\(.*\)/.foo/.*/' | ? <mwhudson> thumper: | sed -e 's%\(.*\)/.foo/\1/' | ? <mwhudson> rather <mwhudson> aareareasfda <mwhudson> thumper: | sed -e 's%\(.*\)/.foo%\1%' | ? <mwhudson> maybe third time lucky <thumper> with a tweak that works * thumper thrashes the server <thumper> oh FFS <ojwb> or simpler: sed 's%/\.foo.*%%' <thumper> unique isn't installed on the server <ojwb> ITYM uniq <thumper> ah.. <thumper> yeah <thumper> I was wondering why it wanted package 'john' <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> ibeardslee: so did i understand right that for any 'business' hp laptop on ascent, i can get it $200 cheaper with freedos? * ibeardslee is hoping <ibeardslee> but .. "I am still getting HP to clarify whether we can advertise this on our website for all end users" <ibeardslee> if that isn't the case I'll start throwing wobblies again <ojwb> they really should milk this for some cheap publicity <ojwb> though perhaps HP don't want MS to hear about it <ibeardslee> ojwb: I'm trying to get them to get a press release sorted .. I want it milked <timClicks> this may sound silly but are lp packaging recipes as good as they seem to be on the label.. is it possible to bring in arbitrarily large numbers of dependencies (as long as they have a bzr source) and have a deb at the end? <ajmitch> the packaging rules still have to explain how to put it all together <timClicks> I see <timClicks> Makes sense <ajmitch> it's not just a case of listing a whole lot of upstream branches, hitting the switch & having magic happen :) <ajmitch> but merging in a packaging branch on top of upstream code <ajmitch> I haven't used recipes, so I can't really explain details <timClicks> hrm... I've just started hacking on a C++ project. They use a shell scripts to install the dependencies & cmake to compile <ajmitch> there are a few packages in ubuntu that use cmake <timClicks> okay, that's a good sign <ajmitch> it shouldn't be too hard to look at them for inspiration <timClicks> in fact, they've moved to providing a remixed ubuntu just to get people up & running <ajmitch> that seems a bit extreme <ajmitch> what's the project? <timClicks> opencog <timClicks> lp:opencog <ajmitch> so the branch appears to have packaging info in it already <ajmitch> not particularly up to date, but it's there <timClicks> mmhmm <ojwb> debhelper 7 minimal rules files can handle cmake build systems <ojwb> or at least the saner ones #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-18 <ojwb> is it just me, or does launchpad time out as often as it successfully loads a page for other people too? <thumper> ojwb: it's just you <thumper> ojwb: what are you looking at? <ojwb> just trying to attach a tiny patch to a bug <ojwb> on the 3rd attempt I managed to <ojwb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wv2/+bug/645023 <ojwb> 222 bytes <ajmitch> fairly small, though the patch size itself probably wouldn't matter too much <ojwb> indeed, unless it was large enough to make the request a problematic size for something * ojwb tries traceroute <ojwb> wow, bad packet ihodge@example.net <ojwb> ~80% <ojwb> and my ISP dropping a few % as is po4-10G.ar2.LAX2.gblx.net * ajmitch isn't seeing any packet loss at all from here, so maybe a slightly different route <ojwb> i don't from the UK, but that only shares the last hop <ojwb> ajmitch: does yours go via level3.net all the way from LA to SJC to NY to london? <ajmitch> fx networks, asianetcom, los angeles, san jose, NY, london <ajmitch> mtr to launchpad.net <ojwb> yeah, but is all the LA->London bit on level3.net? <ajmitch> yes it is <ajmitch> so with wv2 being in universe, there'd be a very high chance that the patch you attached wouldn't get seen for awhile <ajmitch> less so now that people are actively searching for patches, but the best option is to have a usable debdiff & subscribe ubuntu-sponsors <ojwb> i think I'll just push the fix at the debian end <ojwb> i just stuck the patch in the ubuntu bug as someone had already filed one and it might help anyone finding it <ajmitch> it'd be easier, though it doesn't really look like an RC bug <ajmitch> much appreciated :) <ojwb> it probably isn't <ojwb> unless the parsing of random data is exploitable <ojwb> but anyway, that doesn't mean it can't get fixed, especially once squeeze is out <ajmitch> which will hopefully be soonish <ojwb> indeed <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> and bye as I get told **System Restart Required** <Atamira> heh..i have one of those too <Atamira> well..you're reboot took longer than mine <Atamira> your* <ibeardslee> reboot + remember to log back in again <ibeardslee> remote reboots always make me nervous <Atamira> ahh <Atamira> fair enough <Atamira> darn it. using the updated driver file for my video card, cause lag on normal operations.. <Atamira> moving the mouse for instance <Atamira> the last driver file was the same <ibeardslee> sounds less than ideal <Atamira> it is..slows everything down <Atamira> only bonus is that it makes the graphics much better <Atamira> and i can play 3d games <Atamira> but using the browser is slow..specially on facebook * ibeardslee wanders away to learn more about git <snail> hmmm, our VPN is a little theoretical this morning... <chrismsnz> theoretical? <chrismsnz> oh, and morning <snail> chrismsnz: as in 'we theoretically have a VPN connecting us to our data-centre-hosted mission-critical application, but in practice we appear not to' <chrismsnz> heh <chrismsnz> we have a vpn running on a multi-homed box, have to twiddle the routing every time we reboot it for it to come up at all #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-19 <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-20 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> oh..afternoon #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-21 <zapzupnz> afternoon, sunday morning <zapzupnz> synonym to me <Atamira> time is relative sometimes <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <mwhudson> morning <snail> anyone gearing up for the mixandmash competition may be interested in http://opensourceexile.blogspot.com/2010/11/howto-deep-linking-into-nzetc-site.html <Atamira> mornin <ojwb> good morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-22 <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <thumper> morning <chrismsnz> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-23 <karora> chilts: I'm trying to use the latest cil from Debian Unstable. <chilts> righto <karora> When I add an issue or edit an issue the stuff I type into my editor does not seem to end up in the issue :-( <chilts> hmm <chilts> so after cil add, does it complain, create the file (with nothing in it) or create the file with something (but not the right thing) in it? <chilts> which version? v0.07? <karora> The issue is created, but there's no description. <karora> It just says "Description ..." at the bottom of it. <karora> Yeah, this is 0.07.00 <karora> From Debian. <chilts> so you had deleted that line and put your own description there? <karora> No, not yet. <chilts> then the description was saved as 'Description ...' <chilts> I should change that placeholder text to 'Description (change me) ...' <karora> When I went "cil add blah blah blah blah" an editor came up with an empty document, so I typed my description into that. <chilts> it doesn't do anything with the blah blah blah <karora> Was that editor supposed to be displaying the whole issue? <karora> What's your normal workflow for creating an issue? <chilts> so 'cil add' doesn't take anything on the command line <karora> The "blah blah blah" is now the summary for the issue, but other than "vi issues/whatever" I can't <karora> OK. <karora> That's not what the man page says. <chilts> I usually go "cil add --commit" <chilts> the type in the title and the description <chilts> (sorry title=summary) <chilts> not sure I know where that is, maybe that's been added by someone else for Debian * chilts will check <chilts> what does the line of the manpage say, and I'll grep for it? <karora> OK.The man page was probably something fmarier did. <karora> add [--mine] [summary] <karora> Adds an issues after you have edited the input. Text passed after 'add' will be used as the bug summary line. <chilts> yeah, do a 'cil --help' and you can see the add command takes nothing afterwards <karora> I noticed that. <chilts> karora: as it turns out, I no longer maintain cil (really) and asked a guy if he wanted to take over development (though I heard nothing back from him after that) <chilts> so yeah, I don't really use it anymore :) <chilts> sometimes I think I should <karora> And I thought "Surely I can pass in an issue title on the command line", so I checked the man page :-) <karora> Heh. <chilts> yeah, that would probably be a good idea <karora> OK. <chilts> lols ... in the code, it _does_ do the summary from the command lien :) <karora> I was just starting to track issues for a new project and it seemed to me like it would be a good way to deal with "confirmed issues that we know need fixing" <chilts> heh, I never knew <karora> Yeah. <karora> That bit actually worked. <chilts> seems to work with my version here <karora> But then it threw up this empty editor window in front of me. <karora> EDITOR=gvim <chilts> if you say it worked, then an empty editor would mean that it didn't? <karora> No, an empty editor probably means that the temp file the editor was supposed to be editing has a different name, or something like that. <chilts> can you try it with EDITOR=vim and see if that works? <karora> Yeah, OK. <chilts> yeah, you're probably right <chilts> mine works with vim and emacs <karora> Yep. <karora> Works with EDITOR=vim <chilts> cool <chilts> not sure about gvim then <chilts> sorry <karora> So that's an acceptable workaround for me, and I can file a bug against the Debian package :-) <karora> Which $SOMEONE can push to the upstream... <karora> And the normal service of this channel can be returned to witnessing the passing of the days. <karora> afternoon <chilts> hehehe <chilts> afternoon <karora> Amusingly the --commit option is also *not* documented in the manpage. <karora> or the --help :-) <Bacta> Hai <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ol> morning <ajmitch> morning <karora> morning :-) <karora> And what a beautiful, calm, cloudless morning it is! <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> nice and warm here..cloudy.but still a lovely day <thumper> morning <snail> is there something special about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+package/amaya ? it doesn't seem to be in the archives for installation... <ajmitch> it's jaunty? <ajmitch> which is now end-of-life <ajmitch> it was removed from debian & subsequently ubuntu due to numerous bugs & security issues <snail> oh, ok, thanks #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-24 <ibeardslee> morning <thumper> morning <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> how is the night owl? <Atamira> debating about going to sylvia park for breakfast..or macdonalds * ibeardslee just had porridge <Atamira> i havent been able to eat porridge since i was little and accidently sneezed into it <Atamira> sorry..hope that doesnt put you off <ibeardslee> hehe .. you didn't just mix it up and carry on? <Atamira> ewwwwww <Atamira> lol <Atamira> wasnt an empty sneeze..if you get my meaning <ibeardslee> the texture wouldn't have been too different <Atamira> yeah well..i cant look at porridge the same anymore <Bacta> Hai Trolls <Atamira> troll?...are you sure? <Bacta> ;) <Atamira> im more a female dwarf than a troll <Bacta> A Dwarf heh <Bacta> We got plenty of those here <Atamira> well im not tall enough to be an elf <Bacta> Gawd NZ breakfast tv is depressing <Atamira> then dont watch it <Atamira> im thinking of heading out to mackers for breakfast <Bacta> I just had rice for breakfast <Atamira> we just had a discussion on porridge <Atamira> i dont feel like any of those <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> cd <Atamira> did that work? :) <Atamira> run Bacta run <Bacta> Causing me trouble Atamira? <Bacta> Oh shit! It's an Agent! <Atamira> right..ive decided <Atamira> im off to macdonalds <Atamira> and to get some credit for my phone <Bacta> Have fun <hads> Wow, what a waste of several hours. For some unknown reason when implementing an HTTP client, the order of the headers can matter. * ibeardslee disappears for the latest kernel update <ajmitch> hads: that may even be buried in some obscure appendix of an RFC, if you're lucky <hads> ajmitch: Confusingly it's not really. Sortof. "The order in which header fields are received is not significant. However, it is "good practice" to send General-Header fields first, followed by Request-Header or Response-Header fields prior to the Entity-Header fields. <hads> " <ajmitch> right, theory & practice not quite meeting up <hads> I discovered this morning (after many hours last night) that if Content-Type and Content-Length are present in a request then they need to be first, otherwise things break. In this ihodge@example.net. <hads> Not the problem I was wanting to solve but I guess you get that. <ajmitch> time to shave the yak? :) <hads> heh, indeed. <Atamira> ok..macdonalds it was <Atamira> and ibeardslee it was yummy <Atamira> much better than porridge <ibeardslee> I'm sure it was <ajmitch> but still, mcdonalds? <Atamira> ajmitch, i didnt feel like cooking. and you cant go wrong with the breakfast menu <Atamira> at least <Atamira> bacon egg and english muffin <ibeardslee> nomnomnom #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-25 <mwhudson> is there any way to listen to test match special in nz? <ibeardslee> South Islanders .. <ajmitch> ibeardslee: ? <ibeardslee> Truenet.co.nz are looking for more volunteers to help test and measure broadband in NZ <thumper> ? <ibeardslee> http://www.truenet.co.nz/get-involved-become-volunteer-tester <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> Atamira: where are you based? <Atamira> auckland <ibeardslee> ok .. for some reason I thought Hamilton <Atamira> you might be thinking of the other Liz <Atamira> who lives in cambridge <Atamira> who i havent met <ibeardslee> ahhh <ibeardslee> apologies <Atamira> no biggie. you're not the first one to get it wrong <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> sorry. not get it wrong but to assume we're the same person <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-26 <karora> evening <zapzupnz> evening <Atamira> we do the evening thing too? <karora> Atamira: Sometimes the day is so nice you just have to greet it twice :-) <Atamira> true <Atamira> nad its abeautiful day here today <Atamira> pity all the ppl who have lawns thought so as well and decided to mow their lawns #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-27 <ajmitch_> afternoon #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-28 <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch_> morning <ibeardslee> morning <hads> Morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-29 <Atamira> morena <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch_> morning <ibeardslee> http://is.gd/hXIpc * ibeardslee gets ranty again <ajmitch_> so citylink traffic is obviously going to the US for you, thanks to TC <ibeardslee> ohh .. top news item .. http://www.ascent.co.nz/News.aspx <mwhudson> ibeardslee: ooh <snail> morning <ajmitch_> ibeardslee: progress, though it still looks to be by request * mwhudson sends an email <ibeardslee> yeap .. I was told they will be adding a filter in the search to pick out the ones that are available with freedos <ajmitch_> that's nice <snail> today, i'm declining to roll out a public-facing website because of security issues. i'm trying really hard to make this feel like a win (and failing completely). alas the website is entirely my own work <snail> </vent> <chrismsnz> hey ajmitch_ <chrismsnz> you around? <ajmitch_> yep <ajmitch_> eating lunch, but around :) <chrismsnz> remember that bug I had you tickle a month or so ago? About serious corruption with a certain raid card? <chrismsnz> https://launchpad.net/+search?field.text=586897 <ajmitch_> yeah? <chrismsnz> seems that the kernel maintainers/debian have fixed it - should I prod anybody in particular to work this into the ubuntu kernel? <chrismsnz> i linked the debian bug that indicates the fix - i think I did it ok... <ajmitch_> maybe in #ubuntu-kernel, though if they're reading the masses of bugmail, they may see it in time <chrismsnz> ok maybe i'll just drop in and mention it <ajmitch_> thanks for chasing it down :) <chrismsnz> personally, I think it's deserving of a lucid backport and spun into the next installer - but i'll guess we'll see <chrismsnz> sweet as :) #ubuntu-nz 2010-11-30 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch_> morning <thumper> morning <Atamira> morning <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-01 <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> mwhudson: found decent coffee? <mwhudson> ibeardslee: no <ibeardslee> how is it all going over there? <mwhudson> ibeardslee: good, i think <mwhudson> there's certainly a lot going on -- it feels like i've been here for weeks <mwhudson> not 1.5 days <chilts> morning <chilts> mwhudson: where are you? <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> chilts: uds, near orlando <chilts> holidaying? or Canonical stuff? <chilts> ah, ubuntu developer summit <chilts> :) <hads> morning <Atamira> morning <thumper> morning * thumper half wishes he could have stayed for UDS * ajmitch sort of wishes he could have gone to UDS * Atamira has no idea what UDS is <ajmitch> ubuntu developer summit, was mentioned earlier :) <Atamira> ahh. <Atamira> nice play to have it too <Atamira> play/place #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-02 <chilts> morning <sadsun> mornin <Atamira> mornin <hads> morning <olly> hi <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-03 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <thumper> morning <ajmitch> morning <sadsun> echo <hads> Morning <sadsun> echo fail, mornin' :) <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-06 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <olly> hi <ibeardslee> you're early * olly is in a different TZ still * ajmitch feels like he's in a different TZ <chilts> morning <chilts> well, I moved into a new office this morning (I say office, I mean 'spare desk') <chilts> it's on Lambton Quay ... nice location <chilts> Whitcoull's on one side, McDonald's on the other! <chilts> that's by-the-by though :D <ajmitch> not that you'd be visiting those places very often, I'm sure :) <ajmitch> it's probably been a couple of months since I went to velvet burger that's about 50 metres away <chilts> never heard of velvet burger <chilts> I don't mind popping into Whitcoulls every now and again <ajmitch> it's mostly a dunedin place, iirc <olly> branches throughout dunedin? <ajmitch> a couple of them in dunedin, I think they've recently opened in auckland as well <ajmitch> certainly a bit more expensive than mcdonalds, but worth it, like I've heard burger fuel is :) <thumper> morning <chilts> burger fuel is a lot more expensive, but yeah, like burger wisconsin it's a whole different ball game to McD's and Burger King <Atamira> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-07 <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <hads> morning <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-08 <DoctorLard> so... how about that Unity interface. <chilts> haven't used it yet, probably won't ever use it <chilts> doesn't like it's getting any good reviews though <chilts> ^sound^ in the appropriate place <ajmitch> it's a bit of a change from the standard gnome 2.x UI <DoctorLard> I know there's some folks here who might be working on it and stuff, so I'll go as far as saying I can't use it. The 3D req means it's basically unusable in a VM <DoctorLard> focus-stealing apps nuke the searchy thing, which is annoying <ajmitch> DoctorLard: the 3d version of unity works in virtualbox for me, and there's unity-2d <ajmitch> I don't really use the dash a lot, but I can see how it'd be annoying for it to disappear <thumper> DoctorLard: like what? <DoctorLard> what? <DoctorLard> you mean, what's stealing the focus? <DoctorLard> I think it was twitterdeck, and pidgin istr. <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-09 <hads> Afternoon <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> a slightly soggy morning, it has to be said <ajmitch> better than having snow again <hads> Wet down there? Was sunny here up until half an hour ago. <hads> Morning. <mwhudson> it only rained hard for about 5 minutes here i think <mwhudson> unfortunately that was when i was walking to the bus stop <hads> Always convenient. <ajmitch> ~2 weeks until elections, it'd be interesting to see the server load on the results site on the 26th :) <ibeardslee> they've been fairly bullet-proof the last few elections <ajmitch> ibeardslee: it'd still be interesting to see some numbers of how many people are hitting the site <ajmitch> I'm guessing that the site itself would be heavily cached anyway <ibeardslee> I don't know if those stats are public <ajmitch> a pity #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-10 <hads> Read an interesting post on caching with nginx the other day; http://fennb.com/microcaching-speed-your-app-up-250x-with-no-n <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morena <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning :) <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-11 <ojwb> karora: when are you off to OSDC? or are you already over there? <karora> ojwb: I leave on Sunday at 3:30pm <karora> You? <ojwb> karora: sunday too, but quite a bit earlier <ojwb> getting a coach from sydney as there didn't seem to be good connections for flights <karora> I'm flying all the way. Air New Zealand + Virgin Something <ojwb> ah, maybe I just looked at airnz options <ojwb> morning <chilts> morning * chilts goes out for the day #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-12 * ojwb suddenly remembers he needs an evisitor for .au, but luckily the application approval time seems to be measured in seconds <chilts> ojwb: that was lucky! :) <chilts> are you still on a UK passport? #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-13 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <hads> morning <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> another exciting day in #ubuntu-nz <chilts> :-p <thumper> morning <olly_> morning <mwhudson> http://twitter.com/#!/DrBrash is enjoying himself today #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-14 <olly_> hmm, are there any https ubuntu mirrors? * olly_ is failing to find any if there are * ajmitch doesn't know of any <ibeardslee> neither <olly_> i can see why there might not be <olly_> be a nice way to work around this annoying http proxy which blocks various content-types though <mwhudson> i doubt it as gpg is relied on for integrity? <olly_> it would provide privacy as to what software you are installing <olly_> or have installed <mwhudson> true <olly_> hmm, battery monitor seems to think my battery is 95.8% <olly_> always <mwhudson> "look at olly, he's installing PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE!!" <olly_> the icon looks saner, as does the number when I pull out the power <olly_> if I was, I doubt it would be via apt <mwhudson> i installed skype earlier <ajmitch> vrms will be very unhappy <mwhudson> i think on the whole i'm happy about that <olly_> my family still badger me about skype <olly_> you'd think they'd have got the message by now <chilts> same here, I just refuse to do it <chilts> and yet they still come <sadsun> mornin <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> and back shortly <sadsun> wb <ibeardslee> I love it when a remote reboot on a server works <sadsun> godmode huh :P <ibeardslee> no, just god <sadsun> hehe^^ <chilts> morning <ajmitch> morning <sadsun> mornin' <mwhudson> morning <olly_> morniong <chilts> olly_: you back in NZ-land? .. oh wait, you're at OSDC now? <thumper> morning <chilts> yay for figlet :) <ibeardslee> figlet? <mwhudson> __ _ _ _ <mwhudson> / _(_) __ _| | ___| |_ <mwhudson> | |_| |/ _` | |/ _ \ __| <mwhudson> | _| | (_| | | __/ |_ <mwhudson> |_| |_|\__, |_|\___|\__| <mwhudson> |___/ <thumper> non-monospace fonts FTL <mwhudson> verily #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-15 <olly_> chilts: i'm at osdc (so canberra) <chilts> ah cool :) <chilts> thumper: yeah, I switched to the Ubuntu Mono font and it's lovely :) * ajmitch still hasn't switched to that, should probably try it out :) <chilts> to be honest, I've been really really impressed by it since I've been using it ... it is definately more pleasurable on the screen :) <chilts> do it ... seeing a page of code with syntax highlighting in that font is gorgeous! * thumper just switched to ubuntu mono on chat * thumper wonders if it works in emacs <chilts> it does :) * chilts has it <ajmitch> of course switching fonts in ubuntu is an ordeal now <chilts> I can paste you a snippet if you like <chilts> thumper: (set-default-font "-misc-Ubuntu Mono-medium-r-normal--13-100-100-100-c-70-iso8859-1") <chilts> took me a while to get there and I'm not sure that's the best way, but it works for me :) * thumper used "set default font" menu item :) <chilts> heh, I turned my emacs menus off about 7 years ago :) <ibeardslee> mutter mutter soaked mutter mutter <sadsun> good morning :D * sadsun hands over a towel. :P <ajmitch> morning * sadsun slides over a hot cup of coffee ...........cU <ibeardslee> mmm coffee <sadsun> cheers <Atamira> morning <Atamira> miserable day <ajmitch> beautiful sunny day * Atamira mutters about being wet and rain <ajmitch> we had that for maybe half an hour yesterday <mwhudson> better by teatime apparently <chilts> morning <mwhudson> is there an ubuntu iso mirror in nz? <ajmitch> not that I know of <ajmitch> though... <ajmitch> 10:01 < Pyromanik> this field seems like it'll work <ajmitch> bah <ajmitch> silly copy & paste <ajmitch> http://mirror.ihug.co.nz/ubuntu-releases/ seems to have them <mwhudson> yeah http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/11.10/ too <mwhudson> 3.5 meg a second, nice <ajmitch> not too bad <olly_> morning <karora> morning all :-) #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-16 <ibeardslee> morning <hads> morning <sadsun> mornin' <hads> The last two mornings evolution has become unkillable after saying something like 'Saving user interface state'. I think I'll have to get around to trying something different. <ibeardslee> I use claws mail as well <ibeardslee> no calendaring though <hads> I tried claws for a while, must give it another go. Don't care about calendar. It seems very difficult to find the perfect mail client. <sadsun> thunderbird? <hads> Will give it another go, it just doesn't do it for me. Keyboard shortcuts especially. <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <sadsun> mornin' <thumper> morning <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> hads: i use notmuch & really like it, but it's probably not for everyone :-) <thumper> hads: I moved to thunderbird <thumper> hads: it has a nifty gmail conversation view <thumper> hads: which is awesome most of the time, but a little slow over imap for massive conversations <mwhudson> thumper: like that enormous unity whinge thread? :-) <mwhudson> although that's gotten a bit more positive again in the last few days <thumper> mwhudson: not really <sadsun> unity is meant for touch-screens... <ibeardslee> it is interesting that unity has taught me a bit more about not relying on the mouse so much <sadsun> its ugly with those ridiculous big buttons, when u use just the mouse <sadsun> do u have a touch-screen? <ibeardslee> they can be made smaller (harder to do in unity-2d though) <ibeardslee> nope <sadsun> I use gnome-shell with docky <thumper> sadsun: the only truly massive buttons are on the home screen of the dash, and that is changing <thumper> sadsun: no I don't have a touch screen <thumper> I use unity on my laptop and desktop with synergy to connect <sadsun> I see, nice, why is Ubuntu leaving gnome behind? <thumper> sadsun: ubuntu has plans beyond what gnome currently has <thumper> sadsun: I'm sure you've heard the announcements about tablets, tvs and phones <sadsun> aye, I did <thumper> there are designs for a (mostly) consistent UI across all form factors <thumper> they do look very nice <thumper> and unfortunatley company confidential right now <thumper> controlling our own desktop shell gives us the flexibility to evolve and change <sadsun> I see, I do would like to have ubuntu on my smartphone <thumper> a lot of the gnome-shell core is controlled by red hat <thumper> people think "hey it is just gnome" <thumper> but the core committers, those that accept patches, work elsewhere <thumper> and we did hit issues with the first unity shell that was based on mutter and clutter <ibeardslee> heh clutter <ibeardslee> it does seem that there is a disconnect with the customer base, and aq bunch of dissatisfaction with the unity interface. <sadsun> couldnt canonical just merge with red hat? <ibeardslee> it seems to have been somewhat of tha PR disaster <ibeardslee> sadsun: Nooooooo <sadsun> o_O <sadsun> bad thing? <ibeardslee> very <thumper> ibeardslee: quite a few of the changes were driven by user testing <thumper> ibeardslee: the user testing group is now including existing ubuntu users <thumper> ibeardslee: where in the past they weren't <ibeardslee> redhat and canonical are very different beasts <thumper> sadsun: merging will never happen <ibeardslee> thumper: don't see much of that being pushed out in articles. <ibeardslee> yet to see a "Canonical: yeap we could have done better, but this is what we are doing and here is the direction we are going" <thumper> ibeardslee: there are some, but people don't like reading about good news <thumper> sensationalist articles get readers <ibeardslee> yes. but so do big announcements about direction <ibeardslee> I do imagine that there'd be a lot of "too late" responces to some directional announcements <ibeardslee> maybe I'm just following the wrong information streams to catch the good news <sadsun> hmm, OMGubuntu posted an interesting article: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/tomorrow-the-internet-starts-to-die/ <ibeardslee> I like ubuntu, and what Canonical have done to help bring Linux to the masses. <thumper> ibeardslee: so what do you read? <ibeardslee> admitedly not a lot, mostly what I stumble across via twitter/facebook feeds .. the dumbing down of society. <ibeardslee> do you have any recommendations? <ibeardslee> happy to help spread the good news <thumper> ibeardslee: not off the top of my head <hads> mwhudson: I've (very briefly) looked at notmuch but was put off by the local storage. <olly_> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-17 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <sadsun> mornin' <ibeardslee> sadsun: where are you? <sadsun> the netherlands <ibeardslee> an ex-pat? <sadsun> nah, looking for a job in kiwiland <ibeardslee> ahh <ibeardslee> doing what? <sadsun> biochemistry if possible, but I am up for almost anything <ibeardslee> heh .. not much call for biochemists at Catalyst <sadsun> whats that? <ibeardslee> catalyst.net.nz <sadsun> i know a lil bit php... I'm editing my website as a hobby... but no expert on it though <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning <Atamira> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-20 <magazine> hi, dropped in to see what's happening after visiting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NZTeam <magazine> that page was last edited in 2088.... where can i find some current info? <Atamira> did we fast forward to 2088? <magazine> Atamira: lol 2008 <magazine> so what's happening? <ajmitch> there are people around, but usually not on a sunday evening <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> sigh, laptop didn't want to suspend before I had to head to work <ajmitch> hard power-off is the best option for the impatient <ibeardslee> couldn't you just close the lid and head to work and fire it up again? <ajmitch> for some reason the CPU fan was spinning away like it was cooking, it'd mean putting a hot running laptop into my bag <ajmitch> maybe not too much of a problem with the weather today, though :) <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <hads> morning <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-11-21 <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning
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