#ubuntu-website 2008-08-01 <cyberix> error error! <cyberix> popcon broken! <cyberix> :-) <newz2000> cyberix: ? <cyberix> newz2000: Doesn't update <newz2000> I will try to hunt down the person responsible for this. Its not our webteam, its part of the distro team for Ubuntu. <newz2000> cyberix: I've sent an email. <cyberix> newz2000: Thanks. #ubuntu-website 2008-08-02 <newz2000> whois MMA <newz2000> oops <Ekushey> newz2000, ping #ubuntu-website 2008-08-05 <boredandblogging> newz2000: just saw your email <boredandblogging> gonna take a look at it right now <emunkki> anyone with kubuntu II screenshot? <newz2000> hi emunkki: what is it you're looking for? <emunkki> was looking for a screenshot <emunkki> not any more <emunkki> thanks anyway <Volans> Hi all, newz2000 if you have some time take a look at bug 254970 . I can confirm that there is something strange with the search engine but I don't know how it is configured so I can't say if is a bug or not... <ubot3> Malone bug 254970 in ubuntu-website "Searching for "system requirements" goes directly to irrelevant page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254970 <newz2000> ok, I know about that one. I purchased a google business custom search engine to replace it but haven't put it in yet - it's in my todo list for this week. <Volans> ah ok, good... if I can ask... why business? <newz2000> Volans: the business lets us remove the ads <Volans> uh... you **want** the ads in the start page but not in the result page? <newz2000> funny huh? <newz2000> :-) <Volans> yeah!!! <Volans> but Ubuntu can be trated as a no-profit organisation? <newz2000> hmm - interesting thought <Volans> because in this case you can ask google to not show the ads... there is an option in the custon google search <Volans> s/custon/custom/ <Volans> management panel <newz2000> I remember seeing it now that you mention it - I don't know if we're classified as a non-profit org, I'll have to check. <Volans> and in any cases if you use the ajax method to display the search results there isn't any ads... but you need JS to make searches.. <newz2000> I don't like the ajax search <newz2000> it feels weird <newz2000> I prefer an experience as similar to google's as possible <Volans> obviously no news for the other task... right? <Volans> ;) <newz2000> I composed a long email last night and sent to a friend for review <newz2000> he said I wrote too long of an email so I'm revising it this morning <newz2000> :-) <newz2000> anyway, I'm ready to kick stuff off on the feature tour <newz2000> the start page is bogged down by legal stuff between canonical/mozilla <Volans> damn... <Volans> (for the start page) <newz2000> yeah <Volans> (and for legal stuff... same as license stuff) <Volans> I have to go now... come back later... #ubuntu-website 2008-08-06 <qense> hello <newz2000> hello qense <vadi2> The wiki is dead... is that known? <jpds> He left, but the wiki was down for an upgrade, back up now. <vbabiy> newz2000: You around? <newz2000> vbabiy: hey <vbabiy> newz2000: how are you? Sorry I haven't been around much I been dead busy with work.. <newz2000> I know how it goes... I'm good here. <newz2000> how are you? Hopefully recovered from the hustle and bustle <vbabiy> Yeah, I want to start with a new design on of the feature tour <newz2000> oh, cool <newz2000> I have composed and had gerry review an email about the project <vbabiy> which project? <newz2000> the feature tour <newz2000> no one else wanted to lead it <newz2000> do you? <newz2000> actually, let me step back... <newz2000> tell me what you were thinking... I'm eager to hear <vbabiy> about the feature tour <vbabiy> ? <newz2000> yes <vbabiy> Well for one thing I think that for this part we should break away from the stander ubuntu look and feel page. <vbabiy> So when someone comes to the page they will now something changed * newz2000 is listening <vbabiy> its not the old ubuntu <vbabiy> I am bounce a few ideas around my head. I have to make prototypes and show everyone. see if any of them stick <newz2000> well, my concern is that users should still feel they're on an Ubuntu site. it doesn't have to look exactly but there should be some resemblence I think. I'm flexible though if its really necessary. <emunkki> regarding the conversation, have you already seen my latest kubuntu-website mockup? <vbabiy> emunkki: no can you post the url <emunkki> sure <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/kubuntu_startpage_mockup_5.png <newz2000> emunkki: looks sharp, have you met ryanakca yet? <emunkki> newz2000, yes, he's the one who asked me for graphics <newz2000> emunkki: I don't suppose I could convince you not to use the ubuntu title font could I? * newz2000 isn't partial to that font <emunkki> sure, no problem <emunkki> or course we'll use it on the title <newz2000> A font that compliments it nicely, though non-free, is Arial Rounded MT Bold <emunkki> but not necessarily in other elements <newz2000> precisely <emunkki> i have some non-free fonts also which we might use <emunkki> though on an oss project i think using free fonts would be more appropriate <vbabiy> emunkki: that is a nice design <newz2000> its my personal opinion, but the title font has some funny chars like m and w that annoy me. :-/ <emunkki> vbabiy, thanks <emunkki> newz2000, definately :) <emunkki> would you like to apadt that design to ubuntu also? <newz2000> emunkki: so is this a design just for the homepage or would it be used on interior pages? <emunkki> this specific is mainly for the offline start page <emunkki> or sth <newz2000> oooh <newz2000> sharp <emunkki> i'm not actually all clear on all this <newz2000> I'd consider using something like this for the 8.10 start page <newz2000> (for ubuntu) <emunkki> but that design might be adapted to the website also <emunkki> newz2000, do you want me to make one ubuntu-flavoured? <vbabiy> emunkki: are you doing this all in Inkscape? <emunkki> vbabiy, photoshop <newz2000> emunkki: if you want to, yes, but realize that the start page project is bogged down in legal discussions at the moment and there may be no fruit from your labour <newz2000> but I like it a lot <emunkki> newz2000, well you can ping me later again <emunkki> it won't take a lot of time to do it anyway <vbabiy> newz2000: do we have anther meeting planed yet? <newz2000> no <newz2000> the big topic needing discussed is the strt page which is stalled <vbabiy> newz2000: I guess I should go back and read the mailing list. <newz2000> no, sorry, its not been discussed there <newz2000> but the feature tour is still on, and I'm itching to see it move forward <newz2000> I have an email asking for someone to step up and take the leadership role for that work <vbabiy> newz2000: whats going on with the start page? <emunkki> newz2000, is there anybody working on it? <newz2000> regarding the start page, moz, google and canonical (not me) are discussing the legal/trademark implications <newz2000> so that will probably wait until the last min <vbabiy> o okay <newz2000> emunkki: do you mean start page or feature tour <emunkki> newz2000, either one <newz2000> start page - no, feature tour, not really but I'd like to see that change very soon <newz2000> vbabiy just pinged me about that actually <emunkki> ok <emunkki> vbabiy, if you need some help, you can ping me <newz2000> if you guys want to discuss it now we can <emunkki> how cooperative are the ubuntu/kubuntu teams? <emunkki> in terms of websites etc <vbabiy> emunkki: we only have one mockup on the wiki. It would be nice to get some more. <newz2000> emunkki: regarding cooperative, we've been getting more and more <newz2000> ryanakca and I have been communicating for several months trying to get the kubuntu site moved over to drupal <emunkki> >__< <vbabiy> newz2000: do we have any idea on when the tehem will finalized <emunkki> fyi, i hate drupal <newz2000> there are better, there are worse <newz2000> vbabiy: which theme? <newz2000> oh <newz2000> desktop theme <vbabiy> newz2000: yeah <newz2000> no, probably about 3 days after the artwork deadline. :) <emunkki> does that deadline concern websites? <vbabiy> end of the month <newz2000> end of sept I think isn't it vbabiy? (25th) <newz2000> emunkki: yes and no <emunkki> ok... <newz2000> the feature tour is some code + some content <vbabiy> newz2000: yeah <emunkki> anyway i was about to suggest that let's just coop with all the start pages etc <newz2000> content is highly dependent on the theme <vbabiy> I only look at the first dead line <newz2000> emunkki: I'm up for that <emunkki> if there's no epic war between kub/ub <emunkki> that sounds the most logical <newz2000> synergy is good <emunkki> what about xubuntu team? <emunkki> or the other ones <newz2000> I have very little communication with them <newz2000> I do have good communication with edubuntu <newz2000> edubuntu releases in sync with ubuntu/kubuntu so that's the critical one <emunkki> just invite them in <emunkki> i might want to take in xubuntu also, as i'm personally a kubuntu user <emunkki> GNAH <emunkki> i mean a xubuntu user <emunkki> of course <emunkki> duh <newz2000> :-) * emunkki bangs his head against the wall <newz2000> vbabiy: looking at your mockup now <newz2000> I think I agree that breaking out of the ubuntu shell is a good idea <vbabiy> newz2000: I think you have seen that one <vbabiy> yea, I think its time for something new <emunkki> i'd suggest that we should build a "way" that all the *ubuntu distros could walk <newz2000> I was thinking it would be good to limit vertical scrolling on a 768px high screen <newz2000> (for the feature tour) <emunkki> and does not resemble any distribution too much <newz2000> emunkki: distros or distro websites? <emunkki> but is somehow in between <emunkki> distro websites :) <newz2000> I'm cool with that but we also have to leave room for the distinctive styling represented by each desktop. kubuntu's gloss, edubuntu's bright colors, ubuntu's earthy look <emunkki> because i feel strongly that *ubuntu is a big phenomenon <emunkki> not concerning only one distro <emunkki> but all of them <emunkki> so it feels a bit awkward when you see a lot of different websites <emunkki> of course styling would be like the distro itself <emunkki> but also such that you can link it to the other *ubuntu distro websites <newz2000> mind if we talk about the mockup vbaby made? <emunkki> could we have a meeting about all this? <emunkki> sure <newz2000> (lets wait and see if vbabiy is up for it) <emunkki> yeah <newz2000> emunkki: I'm up for a meeting but I'd like to have a plan for a clear goal... exactly what do we gain by doing it? <vbabiy> newz2000: I am <newz2000> cool <emunkki> newz2000, putting up coop <emunkki> and synergy <newz2000> so I'm looking at your colorful mockup at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidFeatureTour * emunkki too <emunkki> i think it's good, but it's also quite "big" <newz2000> it looks good, bright and colorful screenshots <newz2000> bigness is one thing I wanted to mention <emunkki> and somehow it resembles me more of kubuntu than ubuntu (for what comes to the comment newz2000 said a while ago) <newz2000> the most important part is the screenshots, so I think it would be good to make that bigger <emunkki> (distinctive styling) <newz2000> which implies making the right nav less so <emunkki> fd <vbabiy> yeah the nav is way to big <emunkki> we might modify the display to have left/right buttons <newz2000> regarding the display, we did it last time, I think we need something new <emunkki> and by clicking them you would get prev/next screenshot <vbabiy> I think that should be 75% of the current size or less <emunkki> aha ok <newz2000> (imho) <emunkki> i think the reflect of the display is too tall <emunkki> (taking too much screen space) <vbabiy> I think we should drop the screen thing <emunkki> that might be one solution <emunkki> especially if we're using it on the start page also <newz2000> so here's a radical and possibly unachievable idea <newz2000> if we targeted 800 - 850px width (including margin) <newz2000> get a nice big screenshot and some way to learn about the ss and navigate to more screens <newz2000> and not need to scroll on a 768px high screen <newz2000> (browser window maximized at 1024x768) <emunkki> ...or just make it scalable <newz2000> hmm... interesting thought <emunkki> can be easily done with css <newz2000> vbabiy: thoughts? <emunkki> because the complete bg doesn't need to show up <emunkki> just choose one where it doesn't matter <vbabiy> newz2000: but we would have to use full screen shot for that <newz2000> what do you mean by full screenshot? <vbabiy> full screen <emunkki> why not overlay all the other elements? <emunkki> like icons on the desktop <emunkki> can be easily overlaid <emunkki> and made clickable <newz2000> I'm not opposed but caution needed not to get too clever <vbabiy> emunkki: I like were you ar going <emunkki> and so you could learn about *ubuntu by seeing ubuntu "work" <vbabiy> emunkki: that is lot of work to get done in the time we have :) <newz2000> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿something a lot of people do wrong is that think screenshots have to be this square or rectangle of the screen exactly as they see it on the computer <newz2000> you don't have to do that <newz2000> instead the screenshot should show just what you want people to see without distracting them with other parts <vbabiy> newz2000: I agree with you here I think we should go to more application screen shot then full background screen shots <newz2000> right <newz2000> one full desktop screenshot max <vbabiy> Hey guys sorry I got to run, I am so sorry I forgot I have to be in a meeting <vbabiy> :) <newz2000> no prob <vbabiy> sorry <newz2000> ping me when you have some time <emunkki> anyway if we're going to detailed shots, then i think my idea wouldn't work as i thought it <newz2000> check this out, but make sure the background image loads before you do anything... <newz2000> http://digitarald.de/playground/fly-over-background/ <emunkki> ok, that's possible <emunkki> does it work in IE? <newz2000> yes <emunkki> ok <emunkki> might just work <emunkki> though... <emunkki> i just wonder <emunkki> if we're going to show completely different features <newz2000> just inspiration, we don't need that and probably shouldn't use it just like that <emunkki> so how we're going to fit all of them in a same screenshot <newz2000> I tried... its not possible without a gigantic image <newz2000> but imagine this... <newz2000> a filmstrip/powerpoint combo <emunkki> i think that would work if we had one image per section <newz2000> only goes in two dimensions <newz2000> (left/right for example) <emunkki> yes <newz2000> directions, not dimensions <emunkki> yes <newz2000> could use tiling like with google maps to get more data in there without having to load one incredibly slow image <emunkki> yes, possibly <emunkki> but still i wonder how would that work <emunkki> even with a gigantic shot loaded in parts <newz2000> it does not have to look like one huge image... <newz2000> especially if we're showing closeups of the parts <emunkki> wouldn't it look a bit odd if you're just having an another screen and another screen... <newz2000> imagine a power point presentation... <emunkki> yes... <newz2000> let me see if I can mock it up real quick <emunkki> imho still, if we use for example that script, id look stupid when the photo is scrolling <newz2000> that's just inpsiration <emunkki> *it's <emunkki> *it'd <emunkki> gosh <newz2000> hey, half the people I talk to have english as second language, so its no sweat <emunkki> sure, but that was not lack of english skills but a typo :P <newz2000> I can't mock it up easily <emunkki> hehe <newz2000> but thinking of a filmstrip... <newz2000> there's that black line between the pieces <emunkki> yes <newz2000> I'd like to see something more thanjust a simple fade personally, something that makes people say wow <newz2000> however caution needed not to go overboard <emunkki> like a moving one? <emunkki> but only in left/right directions? <newz2000> yes <emunkki> ok <emunkki> i can make a mockup if you point me to a few (good) screenshots <newz2000> you can grab some off of a past tour... * newz2000 grabs links <newz2000> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/screenshots-710 <emunkki> ok thanks <emunkki> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/work/ubuntu/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup.png <newz2000> ooh, that looks good <newz2000> better than I was imagining <emunkki> ha ;) <emunkki> we might also make the shots a bit opaque <emunkki> and the strip too <emunkki> as they are in real life, too <newz2000> they're not opaque now? <emunkki> no <emunkki> only overlaid <newz2000> so lets take it to the next step... <emunkki> just a moment <newz2000> ok <emunkki> hmm <emunkki> is there a copy of the bg <emunkki> found! <emunkki> file:///home/knome/Stuff/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup_2.png <emunkki> errr <emunkki> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/work/ubuntu/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup_2.png <emunkki> i don't know what happened as i really didn't paste the file url <newz2000> oh, I see <emunkki> but the http url in a wrong chan :D <newz2000> that is elegant <newz2000> so here's my thought... <newz2000> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿the fimstrip does not need to be so prominent... keeping the top and bottom about the same height (looks like 45px) but making the images much higher (about 450px high, 600px wide) <newz2000> so the strip will be very wide <newz2000> and you really only see one image at a time <newz2000> that is where the scrolling comes in <emunkki> ok <emunkki> want a screenshot? <emunkki> i mean, mockup;) <newz2000> no, that's ok <newz2000> if you can picture it in your mind <newz2000> the "next" arrow causes the strip to slide to the left so that the next screenshot is in view <emunkki> sure <newz2000> so like that fly by, the screenshots scroll smoothly from next to next <emunkki> but maybe the next and prev shots will be shown at least partly? <newz2000> yeah <emunkki> THAT'd be cool+elegant <newz2000> that actually leads to another intersting idea that could be cool if done <emunkki> tell me? <newz2000> imagine a title for each screenshot shown overlaid on the screenshot <newz2000> instead of sliding out at the same speed as the screenshot <newz2000> it could slide out at a different speed, giving a sort of parallax scrolling effect <emunkki> hmm.. <newz2000> so to the right you'd see a little bit of the next screenshot and possibly its title <newz2000> I may be picturing something impossible <newz2000> I do that often <newz2000> My artist friends say their challenge is coming up with good ideas... I tell them my challenge is not coming up with the ideas but figuring out how to actually do them. :-) <emunkki> hehe <newz2000> so with 6 screenshots in a strip the image will be big... <newz2000> and therefore tiling may be necessary <newz2000> does this idea sound promising or does it sound like it'd be hard to make it attractive enough? <emunkki> i just wonder about the picture <emunkki> would the bg have to be attached? <emunkki> so it wouldn't move as the images move? <newz2000> I don't think it would be good to attach the background to the image <newz2000> as a matter of fact, the filmstrip could be a bg image too using css <newz2000> and really there doesn't need to be a bg or a filmstrip <newz2000> :-) <emunkki> lol <newz2000> I was actually being figurative originally when referring to the filmstrip so that you could visualize how images could be lined up side by side without feeling like they needed to connect <newz2000> but the filmstrip looks good <newz2000> the images could have a little opacity applied to them using css so that when the scrolled over the background you could see through them <emunkki> yes <newz2000> so taking the film idea further... <newz2000> imagine the top and bottom of the strip being separate from the images and the dividers <newz2000> and even as the picture slides in from the left the top and bottom keep moving to give you the sense of watching an old film movie (like at the beginning when the leaders start) <emunkki> hmm <newz2000> maybe a few quick flashes of a scratch would zip across <emunkki> yeah maybe :) <newz2000> eh <emunkki> but the scratches should be over the imgs ;)) <newz2000> right <emunkki> otherwise they wouldn't look so good <newz2000> si, I don't have strong feelings about this, I'm just pushing for something really visually exciting to look at <newz2000> si = so <emunkki> that would be exciting, yes <emunkki> but who would code it? <emunkki> starts to sound we'd be better of to do it with flash <newz2000> there are two people on the list who know mootools who offered to help <newz2000> (mootools is the effects library used on that flyby) <emunkki> yeah <emunkki> also... <emunkki> (bringing the idea further) <emunkki> (and easying it) <emunkki> we might just make an "intro" <emunkki> with the old filmstrip and scratches <emunkki> with OLD screenshots <newz2000> oh, clever <emunkki> and then BANG out the new, with perfect, no-scracth filmstrip <newz2000> it would have to be fast, zip by <emunkki> of course the old screenshots would have to be grayish <emunkki> and the new ones shiny <newz2000> oh yeah <emunkki> yes, just a zip by and the "bang" could be that the filmstrip went through EVEN faster <emunkki> and just changing to the new shots <emunkki> that'd also describe the timeline of development <newz2000> so mootools can do this, we'd have to test on slower machines and slower networks to ensure it works ok <emunkki> yes <newz2000> emunkki: what do you think, does this sound like something you'd want to help out with and something that would produce an exciting result? <emunkki> i can help out, but i can't a lot of js <emunkki> and definately is worth at least trying out <newz2000> don't sweat the js <emunkki> we can just put up a quick prototype, can't we? <newz2000> yeah <newz2000> ï»¿ok, I'll talk to vbabiy, he wants to help out really bad I think. I'll also see if I can recruit some js help. <newz2000> I'll bet this is big enough that we can get several people contributing meaninfully <newz2000> I think I better call it quits for a bit and get some dinner <emunkki> i'm soon ready for ZZZ ;) <newz2000> ok, nice meeting you emunkki. I'll catch you later. <emunkki> you too <emunkki> let's talk about the coop of the websites later also #ubuntu-website 2008-08-07 <emunkki> vbabiy, http://emonk.fi/work/ubuntu/feature_tour_filmstrip_mockup_2.png <emunkki> vbabiy, we decided to put up something like that <emunkki> we'll talk more later <emunkki> will watch a movie and then sleep <vbabiy> emunkki: I do like it so far <vbabiy> Sorry I had to leave <emunkki> yeah np :) <vbabiy> Yeah, maybe we can talk tom <emunkki> sure <emunkki> i'll be back in maybe 12 hours <qense> What the heck is going on with the wiki? It's terribly slow. <qense> I'm getting 111 errors and POST mistakes <newz2000> qense: can you paste an error or a screenshot of it? <nand> qense: there was a new version put online <newz2000> oh really? <nand> didn't know? <qense> ah, that was probably causing it :) <nand> supposed to be faster, and with some additional features :) <newz2000> nand: no, I finished the theme for the 1.6 upgrade weeks ago <newz2000> yes, openid support, plus better spam prevention <newz2000> unfortunately, major new wiki syntax <qense> That's why my new page looks malformed! * nand hopes he won't have to rewrite a bunch of them <newz2000> the migration process was supposed to deal with that, but if you put your page in after the migration then it would certainly cause a prob <newz2000> I'm hoping that once the wiki settles from the upgrade creating/editing is faster. It used to be so slow because of the way it checked for subscribed users <newz2000> oh, search should be much faster now too <qense> How do you create a link where the clickable text is different from the name of the page you're linking too? <qense> ["page1|desc"] doesn't work anymore <newz2000> is there a help below the edit box? * newz2000 looks too <newz2000> oh, right [[ ]] <newz2000> [[link|text\\ <newz2000> \\ == ]] <qense> that's solving it <nand> hey, a small website question: what is the preferred way to handle i18n in a website? Hardcoded? Gettext via some lib? <nand> and what's the best way to store it concerning performance? DB, included file? <emunkki> depends on the website <emunkki> and what you want to achieve <emunkki> and how often the translations are going to change <nand> well, the website is brainstorm: there is not so much strings there <nand> anyone knows how reliable is php-gettext? (not updated since 2006)? <emunkki> don't know <emunkki> how high traffic? <emunkki> basically if you're using db anyway, i'd suggest creating a table <emunkki> and it's the best for updates <nand> the advantages with text files (.po) is that some tools exists to edit them easily <emunkki> nand, i'd prefer db. <emunkki> nand, especially if you're using db anyway #ubuntu-website 2008-08-08 <emunkki> hi newz2000 <newz2000> howdy emunkki <emunkki> i'm trying to get my vmware-mulated windows to shut down >__< <emunkki> it's SO unresponsive <emunkki> might be because of vmware as well, but still i think it's windows which causes the most of the problem <newz2000> have you tried virtualbox? <emunkki> hmm <emunkki> nope <newz2000> it's got this slick "seemless" mode and folder sharing <newz2000> so that folders in your home directory show as network drives <newz2000> for me with xp its very responsive <emunkki> but it's not for 64? <newz2000> oh, don't know actually <emunkki> and does it use the devices natively on windows or through linux? <newz2000> I think you can choose... <emunkki> ok <emunkki> because the reason why i need vmware is photoshop working effectively with a wacom tablet <newz2000> the only problem where I like vmware better is if you're using wifi then you have to use the NAT networking which means you can't run a server <emunkki> linux can't handle them as good as windows, yet <newz2000> ah, haven't tried that <emunkki> photoshop cs2 would run on wine, though :P <emunkki> just waiting for the better wacom support <emunkki> anyway, will boot now to get responsive vmware-windows back -> <newz2000> emunkki: would you be OK with me using your kubuntu start page mockup as part of an email newsletter template for ubuntu/canonical newsletters? <emunkki> newz2000, sure <newz2000> cool <emunkki> newz2000, if you want, you can put my name there <emunkki> newz2000, Pasi Lallinaho // emunkki <newz2000> would you be ok if I just gave you credit for the idea when communicating with people about the mockup? I'm not sure its appropriate (or desirable for you) to have your name in the emails <emunkki> yeah that's ok as well <newz2000> ok, I'll make sure to praise your name when I show it off <newz2000> :-) <emunkki> hehe ok ;) <emunkki> i already got two new commercial projects today :o <newz2000> is this what you do for a living? <emunkki> a few people has ASKED my client for my contact information <emunkki> yes, definately :) <newz2000> where are you located? <emunkki> that's why i'm so superior ;)) <emunkki> finlanf <emunkki> *f=d <newz2000> dinland? <newz2000> :-) <emunkki> lol <emunkki> i always get typos when i write "finland" <emunkki> if i don't especially try hard to write it correctly <emunkki> basically i would be very interested and open for international clients as well... <emunkki> i might even be able to live abroad for some time <newz2000> ever thought of moving to Des Moines Iowa USA? <newz2000> just a bit of an inside joke actually <emunkki> lol :D <emunkki> nope <newz2000> most of the design work I know about is here (in Iowa where I'm at) <emunkki> let me specify: i would be able to live abroad @europe for some time ;) <emunkki> really, states are too far away from my life <emunkki> as is asia <newz2000> I know how it is actually <emunkki> though it seems that all the indian webdesigners already work @finland :P <emunkki> (i see them A LOT when i go to my studies) <newz2000> you're a student too? <emunkki> they're working nearby a train station which is along my route to studies <emunkki> yes <emunkki> i'm studying to be a youth leader/social worker <emunkki> that's my another passion, but it has had a bit smaller role in my life for some time already <newz2000> what does a youth leader in finland do? <emunkki> well uhmm... <emunkki> can do a lot ;) <emunkki> basically just organises happenings <emunkki> depends on if he/she is working on community/city or parish <emunkki> actually my title would be "bachelor of social services" <emunkki> but i'm deepening into young people and that's why i also get the right to work as a youth leader in parishes <emunkki> and i'm gonna also get a possibility to work as a missionary secretary or sth :P <emunkki> don't really know what that person does, i've only seen one and he walked around the place all day long looking busy <emunkki> i never catched him doing anything proper in a year <newz2000> I've known people like that too <emunkki> but that's what a lot of people think of us graphic designers also : <emunkki> :P <newz2000> gotta find inspiration <emunkki> yeah <emunkki> my mother always says that i don't do any proper job <emunkki> but still my salary is way higher than her <emunkki> ;) <emunkki> or earnings to be correct <emunkki> because salary <<< earnings <newz2000> I've tried to describe my job to my parents too... my mom kind of gets it but my dad is still pretty clueless <emunkki> heh <emunkki> what do you actually do? <newz2000> I'm the Ubuntu.com webmaster <emunkki> is your salary a secret? <newz2000> probably best <emunkki> :) <newz2000> but it may not be relevant across countries any how <emunkki> ywah <emunkki> w=e <newz2000> even here in the US Iowa has a pretty low cost of living <emunkki> yeah, well finland is a pretty expensive country <emunkki> and euro is a lot stronger than us dollar <emunkki> at least atm <emunkki> it's so damn cheap to order cds from there :P <newz2000> what about shipping? <emunkki> well, last time i ordered a cd from an amazon marketplace seller: <emunkki> cd: 3,10 - shipping: 4,40 (in euros) <emunkki> so that's it's bad side <emunkki> though cds cost like 20-25 euros here <newz2000> wow <emunkki> without shipping, if you order them to your home <newz2000> if cds cost that much here p2p would be unstoppable <newz2000> (though it probably is anyway) <emunkki> well do you think it's stoppable here in finland? ;) <emunkki> i think there was a research that 80% of the families in finland download illegal material in finland <newz2000> I meant "no one in the US would buy the CDs" <emunkki> or was it 60% - but that isn't the actual percent anyway <emunkki> and that concerns only families, not individual persons <ryanakca> newz2000: ping, I'll be back on August 28th, family vacation. I might manage to stop by on IRC once or twice. <newz2000> ryanakca: ok, have fun. <newz2000> I think I'll be away some of that same time #ubuntu-website 2008-08-09 <qense> Who is working on the single login for all the Ubuntu websites? <qense> I'd like to use the same thing for the Ubuntu Wanted site we're working on, is there anything special done, next to adding plain OpenID support? <jpds> qense: I think you'd just have to add OpenID support to the site. <qense> OK <jpds> qense: Otherwise, try consulting #launchpad. <qense> thx :) <qense> The Ubuntu wiki redirects you directly to the Launchpad OpenID page when you're logged in there. <jpds> Just a second, let me see how the REVU code does it. <qense> ok <jpds> qense: https://code.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk <qense> thank you very much! <jpds> qense: See the launchpad_login.py file in the source root. <qense> thx <jpds> "NCommander" wrote it, should you want to ask him any questions. <qense> ok #ubuntu-website 2008-08-10 <qense> hello <jpds> Hi qense <emunkki> newz2000, ping #ubuntu-website 2008-08-11 <newz2000> emunkki: hi, sorry I didn't reply yesterday, my wife and son were both sick, if you still need me, I'm here <vbabiy> hey newz2000 where is the bzr website source located <newz2000> vbabiy: which website's source? <vbabiy> newz2000: http://bazaar-vcs.org/ <newz2000> hmmm... do you want the source image of the wiki theme? <vbabiy> no I was wondering if I where I could commit a branch to fix the css <newz2000> it's not in a branch that I am aware of <vbabiy> o <newz2000> I'm sure it is but maintenance is now done by someone other than me <newz2000> you should probably ask in #bzr <newz2000> what did you fix? <vbabiy> the Title text indent drives me crazy its enough on wide screens <vbabiy_> newz2000: Did you say anything else, my internet is dead here <newz2000> vbabiy_: no <newz2000> I'm having inet probs too <vbabiy_> it sucks here <emunkki> newz2000, ping again; i was just asking about the feature tour progress/whether people have interest in helping? <newz2000> emunkki: hey <newz2000> ok, so the question is, who is the leader <newz2000> emunkki: would you like to do it? <newz2000> (I'd help you of course) <newz2000> if not, I have an email composed to the list to ask for one <newz2000> I could do it too I guess, though I can do very little of the work <emunkki> i'd like to help with it, but can't do really a lot - i'm having a busy week (though i shouldn't have had) and my studies start next week, as i said <newz2000> ok, I will ask for a leader and give 5 days, if not, then I will lead it <newz2000> emunkki: how would you like to help? <emunkki> i can help with the graphics/css <newz2000> ok, then maybe I should not wait 5 days <emunkki> but i can also help with xhtml/php/... if it's *really* needed <newz2000> we probably won't use any php <emunkki> yeah, anyway <newz2000> emunkki: here's my adaption of your design for an email newsletter: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/EmailNewsletter/email.html <newz2000> though I need to add a right hand column in there somehow <emunkki> hmm ok <emunkki> i can see if i come up with something <newz2000> emunkki: I'm afraid of being too pushy so I'm being a bit more passive than I normally would be... <emunkki> naah.. just ask me <emunkki> i will do what i have time for <newz2000> if you want to help with the graphic design I'd love to discuss it with you, I'm available now if you like, or if you just want to go to town with it that's cool too <emunkki> i think there's no reason to be part of oss community, if nobody can ask for your help ;) <emunkki> sure, i'm having a free night <emunkki> i was in sauna earlier so i might be a little slow though ;) <newz2000> :-) <newz2000> from a graphic designer point of view I've often had the best luck with fixed-width designs because its easy to create graphics for them that work in reliable ways. Do you have an opinion on the matter? <emunkki> fixed-width design are the "easy way" <emunkki> and sometimes it's understandable <emunkki> if you eg. want ABSOLUTELY the same behaviour, look & feel for every visitor <emunkki> i have a few books on non-fixed-width css design, and i can say that the layouts are already very close in reliability <newz2000> so which do you like to dsign for? <emunkki> well, i'm always heading for liquid layout <emunkki> mostly because of really varying resolutions <emunkki> and i also bumped into a great script <emunkki> ajax, which can change the stylesheet on the fly if the browser window size > OR < than value x <emunkki> and it seems to work perfectly <emunkki> and is light <newz2000> oh, that sounds slick <emunkki> yes <emunkki> i'll paste you the url, just a moment <emunkki> http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2006/01/19/ <emunkki> i think that is a REALLY powerful tool when used appropriately <emunkki> and both the css styles are made with care and love <emunkki> that the other doesn't look like b-class version of the other <newz2000> ah, resolution dependent layout... that's just what I was looking for recently <emunkki> yes <emunkki> we're using it at http://fcviikingit.fi/ <emunkki> (yes i know the site looks bad but it's the clients wish) <newz2000> I know how clients are <emunkki> i suggest you dan cederholms 'bulletproof web design' on the liquid layouts problem/solutions, if you haven't read that yet <emunkki> it's a wonderful book, as is his first <emunkki> they're even way better than the eric meyer ones o.O <newz2000> I'll investigate it, I've not seen it <newz2000> so are you starting to visualize something for the feature tour? <emunkki> http://simplebits.com/publications/bulletproof/ <emunkki> well i think we should gather the whole team together <newz2000> Are you saying that because you don't like the "filmstrip" idea? <emunkki> no, definately not <emunkki> but i'd like to see the ajax/js guys and talk with them <emunkki> agree on who does what etc. <newz2000> ok. So I have a little problem with design by committee <emunkki> ok...? :) <newz2000> If you want to design it, this is what I suggest <newz2000> Create a mockup that does a good job of conveying what you're picture in your mind <newz2000> then we bring this idea to the group <newz2000> (and we can do more than one idea in case another designer wants a hand at it) <newz2000> but I'm a little concerned with too many people putting tons of time into a design just to have it trashed <emunkki> yeah ok <newz2000> so I'd kind of prefer to have one strong designer take a lead in creating a look, and I don't care who that designer is, as long as their good, and you are. <newz2000> hey, speaking of good designers... here's BinaryDigits <newz2000> emunkki: you may have some competition <emunkki> hello BinaryDigits <emunkki> sure <emunkki> ;) <BinaryDigits> oh hello! <BinaryDigits> how is everyone? <newz2000> great, how are you today? <BinaryDigits> not bad thanks <emunkki> anyway i was used to be a *very* HC css geek, but as time has passed by, i've become also more like an artist <newz2000> BinaryDigits: we're talking about the feature tour, which if I remember correctly, you expressed some interest in too, am I right in that? <emunkki> (the css geekiness shows in my book shelf, where 6/8 of the books i use for work are css only books ;)) <newz2000> that's pretty geeky <emunkki> yes <newz2000> I've got several books on the http protocol, so I may have you beat a little <emunkki> and i might want one more ;( <BinaryDigits> yep, although i did a mock up of the start page, not feature tour, but would love to give input on that as well :) <newz2000> oh, start page <newz2000> sorry, got a big confused <emunkki> BinaryDigits, can i see the mockup? <newz2000> emunkki: I think she put it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidStartPage <newz2000> first one <BinaryDigits> sure, it's on the wiki <BinaryDigits> ya <newz2000> BinaryDigits: so regarding the start page, it's been shelved temporarily because of legal discussions <emunkki> ah, that's a really early mockup <BinaryDigits> oh ok... what legal discussions? or are we not able to ask? hehe <newz2000> I full expect it to be shelved until about 8 days before release at which point it will become so burningly urgent that it consumes all of my/our time until its done <emunkki> BinaryDigits, no, CIA will pick you up soonish <newz2000> BinaryDigits: mozilla, google and canonical hammering out minutia <emunkki> newz2000, well basically here's a story: <BinaryDigits> ok <emunkki> kubuntu folks might want to use the start page layout i made in the website <emunkki> so we might put that up already soonish <emunkki> and then we can adapt it for ubuntu start page <emunkki> if you want <emunkki> so it wouldn't hurt us so much even if we had 8 days <newz2000> ok <emunkki> if we decide to use that design, of course <newz2000> of course <newz2000> so lets return to the feature tour <emunkki> sure <newz2000> you were discussing an alternate layout/fluid design concept <newz2000> I'm curious what you had in mind <emunkki> yes, i think that without really heavy arguments for fixed-width, it shouldn't be used <newz2000> ok, so you're opposed to fixed width <newz2000> I'm fine with that though I don't feel so strongly on the matter. :-) <emunkki> no, that's not the correct word <newz2000> oh <emunkki> let me think of a more appropriate one... <emunkki> can't think of one :/ <emunkki> but anyway, just needs a strong argument <newz2000> gotcha <newz2000> here are my thoughts... we have a limited amount of information to display and it is very visual <emunkki> if you don't have a reason to use fixed-width, don't use it <newz2000> the benefit of a fixed width layout is that it will be consistent in its apperance... <newz2000> the benefit of the fluid layout is that those who have a wider screen can see bigger pictures <emunkki> definately <newz2000> here's what I dislike about other feature tours <emunkki> the question is, would the images be scalable? <newz2000> good question <newz2000> I've seen some ajax scripts that do image scaling <newz2000> but I think the source images need to be photographic to get good results <newz2000> and we don't have those kinds of images <emunkki> yes <BinaryDigits> argh, i need to leave, hope to run into you guys again tomorrow! <newz2000> ok, ttyl <newz2000> what I dislike: <emunkki> BinaryDigits, see you later <newz2000> boring images... for example, full desktop screenshots time after time where only a menu or a small window changes <newz2000> full page refreshes for just new images <newz2000> non-existient deescriptions of the images... I like it when the images are described <emunkki> yeah.. <newz2000> seemingly endless images (a progress meter or some other status would be nice) <newz2000> boring boring boring appearance (this is not critical, but WOW is good) * newz2000 is done <emunkki> yeah <emunkki> i agree <newz2000> so you see, as a designer you have a lot of room for creativity <emunkki> yeah <emunkki> hmm <emunkki> still i wonder whether the filmstrip will work with partial-screen shots <newz2000> We don't have to do a film strip... <emunkki> i like that idea <newz2000> ok <emunkki> i really don't want to let you think that i didn't like the idea <emunkki> i'm just wondering how it will work in action <newz2000> well, let me say this... <newz2000> I wasn't actually pushing for a real film strip, I was just trying to describe how the images would be lined up side by side with small gaps <newz2000> I think that if properly done the filmstrip could look beautiful, though it could also be cheesy <newz2000> but what I liked a lot was the smooth scrolling horizontal effect where there's a large image, no thumbnails needed... <newz2000> and the filmstrip analogy explained how images could be side by side without needing to look continuous <emunkki> aha ;) <emunkki> sure.. <emunkki> hmm <newz2000> emunkki: do you want to work on a graphical mockup then? <emunkki> yeah <newz2000> ok <emunkki> i think i can come up with maybe a few alternatives <emunkki> just have to let the ideas grow on my head :) <newz2000> go for it <newz2000> I'm going to split for the day, I've got a sick family so better go take care of them <emunkki> yeah <emunkki> see you later <newz2000> ;-) <emunkki> i'll pm you when i have something ready #ubuntu-website 2008-08-13 <MadsRH> What is happening with the "help offered" part of the Wanted site? Is it being discussion? I can't see anything happening on the mailinglist, here or in the forum :-( <MadsRH> Should I open a thread to start the discussion? #ubuntu-website 2008-08-14 <melat0nin> the wiki is very slow today <emunkki> it's always :P <melat0nin> :/ <vbabiy> newz2000: Hey <newz2000> hey vbabiy! <emunkki> <vbabiy> newz2000: I got some free time on my hands coming up and I want to really get something going with the feature tour. Has anything changed since we last spoke <newz2000> vbabiy: we've had good discussion with emunkki <newz2000> he's good at design and concepting (and css) but he's also running out of time <newz2000> before he gets busy <newz2000> hey emunkki, around? <emunkki> sure <emunkki> ;) <newz2000> hey, had any break throughs on the feature tour? <emunkki> not really <emunkki> i will be busy until monday i think <newz2000> oh too bad <emunkki> i know :( <newz2000> when does your school start? <emunkki> monday :P <emunkki> but really, i will be less busy then than now <vbabiy> yeah emunkki you going to busy <vbabiy> or not <vbabiy> :0 <vbabiy> :) <emunkki> i got three new clients yesterday <emunkki> (commercial) <newz2000> I guess that's the good news <vbabiy> very cool <emunkki> well the good news is that i'm also a workaholic <newz2000> although I don't know why you'd rather help those guys who pay you money when you could help us for free <vbabiy> lol <emunkki> yeah i've thought that myself ;) * newz2000 is waiting for the wiki <newz2000> it's going very very slow today <newz2000> maybe if I hit refresh a bunch of times it will go faster because it knows I'm in a rush <emunkki> lol <emunkki> maybe it will put you in the back of the queue <vbabiy> its been slow lately <newz2000> vbabiy: how would you like to help on the feature tour? <vbabiy> what do mean? <newz2000> I think it will be a multi-person job, I was just curious what part you feel you'd like to do? <vbabiy> really anything <vbabiy> Coding, Markup, Css <newz2000> vbabiy: lets give emunkki a fighthing chance to get a design done (if he still wants to). Until there's a design there's not much coding to be done. <newz2000> But I am definitely eager for you to contribute <vbabiy> newz2000: well I am still going to work on some design maybe I will get something good <emunkki> just throw in ideas, don't count on me if you're in hurry <newz2000> emunkki: ok. <emunkki> i can still design something when i have time though, if you don't have any design ready for use <newz2000> vbabiy: go for it... <newz2000> emunkki: go for it <newz2000> :-) <vbabiy> yeah, I think the more design we have the more option we have to use <newz2000> sure <newz2000> here are some tips... <newz2000> don't feel like you have to copy ubuntu.com. It should be clear people are still on the ubuntu website but it doesn't have to be an exact match <newz2000> also, go for "subdued" or "muted" styling elements. Less is more. <Diptanu> Hi everyone <newz2000> hi Diptanu! <Diptanu> I just got here <newz2000> so I see ;-) <Diptanu> ya <newz2000> Diptanu: what blog did you hear about this at? <Diptanu> Beerfruit <newz2000> hah <Diptanu> ya <Diptanu> sorry. Bearfruit.org <newz2000> that would be my blog then. :-) <Diptanu> I am a web developer...I have founded a startup of my own in India. <Diptanu> Wow <Diptanu> Thats great. <newz2000> Where in Inidia are you Diptanu? <Diptanu> Bangalore <Diptanu> I read your blog everyday <newz2000> Sorry, it hasn't changed a ton lately <newz2000> so what part of web development is your speciality? <Diptanu> Its alright. I like your thoughts <Diptanu> especially the photoshop one <Diptanu> I like using swig <Diptanu> for serverside scripting <newz2000> The only swig I've heard of is the thing that lets you use C code in python or ruby <Diptanu> You know. write good and fast c code and bind it with python..and stuff... <newz2000> gotcha <Diptanu> Ya ur right <newz2000> very interesting, I've not heard of it used in web development really <Diptanu> And on frontend I am alike a regular web developer <Diptanu> Ya.. <Diptanu> Actually i started using it accidentally <newz2000> do you have a website? <Diptanu> I had to write a module which was supposed to work as a daemon <Diptanu> Ya...my site is http://lifeoz.com <Diptanu> So u were talking about some problems with this ubuntu website. <newz2000> the navigation syndication? <Diptanu> ya <newz2000> did you have an idea? <Diptanu> not really.. <Diptanu> just did some random thinking.. <Diptanu> Do you work with open source full time? <newz2000> yes, I work for Canonical as the ubuntu.com web master <Diptanu> I see..Great <newz2000> Some people here have suggested I rethink the navigation entirely <Diptanu> ok... <newz2000> so I recently installed some tracking code to see how people use the navigation... what they click on, what they don't <newz2000> and as it turns out, people rarely click on the top navigation <Diptanu> I see <newz2000> getting rid of that may make life much easier and take away the need to syndicate it <Diptanu_> Sorry i got disconnected <newz2000> the last thing said after you said, "I see" was: newz2000: getting rid of that may make life much easier and take away the need to syndicate it <Diptanu_> ok <newz2000> Diptanu_: so are you up very early or are you up very late? <Diptanu_> I am up very late <newz2000> I've got a friend in Pune who I keep in touch with... I never hear from him at
{'channel': 'ubuntu-website', 'month': 8}