#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-03 <tonyyarusso> h00k: <tonyyarusso> HAD A BIRTHDAY - wooooooo <sparklehistory> Yay! Happy Birthday h00k! <h00k> tonyyarusso: Thanks! #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-04 <Takyoji> It's pathetic how it takes up like over 80% of my CPU when using Pandora (music streaming service) on my laptop. <Takyoji> of which is just AUDIO <Takyoji> But contained in Flash <Takyoji> there's also no DRM/cryptology of the service either, yet still takes as much CPU power <Alpha_Cluster> cause flash is like the greatest thing ever <Alpha_Cluster> you know great things must use lots of CPU power <Takyoji> Of course, it shows how great they are, after all. <Alpha_Cluster> yep <Alpha_Cluster> only great programmers can use up that much cpu while doing so little <Alpha_Cluster> ok anyone have a problem where evolution refuses to ask for a password for a new account? <Alpha_Cluster> god evolution is still such a piece of shit <kermit> why does flash eat so much CPU anyway? <Obsidian1723> Here's a bash script I made which will download and install programs, setup iptables (for a desktop PC, not a server) and provide a good first step after doing a new Ubuntu 10.04LTS desktop installation. wget -c -t0 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.sh and then sudo chmod +x install-script and then do sudo ./install-script.sh and it just runs. This is a solid script that is ever-evolving. <rlaager> Obsidian1723: You should make this into one or more packages and put them in a PPA. <rlaager> Obsidian1723: Why do you run apt-get install a million separate times? For the firewall stuff, using ufw would probably be better. <Obsidian1723> How would I do this in a PPA? <Obsidian1723> I ve never packaged <Obsidian1723> Well, iptables is more configurable <rlaager> Obsidian1723: I manage all of our configs (desktop and server) via packages. For something like this, you might make a package named obsidian-desktop. It'd be a "native" package, which means it has no upstream tarball. <Obsidian1723> gotcha... how would I make this into a package though? <rlaager> Basically, any time you're creating a file, you'd create that as part of the package build process. Any time you're running a command, you'd put that in the package's postinst script. <rlaager> And when you're install a package, you'd instead make that a dependency of your package (in debian/control). <rlaager> Obsidian1723: I have to run to a client's place, but perhaps I can find a good example to share with you so you don't have to start from scratch. <Obsidian1723> that'd b ed appreciated <rlaager> Packages are nice in that, properly done, they can cover both initial installs and upgrades. <Obsidian1723> sweet <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I've been meaning to put together some packages to control network-wide common configurations too. <tonyyarusso> Meanwhile, my new Das Keyboard Model S properly fixes my KVM switch problem :) #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-05 <rlaager> I'd love to find some people doing similar things if only to compare configs. <rlaager> Unfortunately, the nature of such things makes them not very useful to share directly. * jchristensen just installed irc for Droid #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-06 <chinoto> Anyone know how to use grub2 to boot isos? <chinoto> trying to add the iso of "Trinity Rescue Kit 3.3" to a usb for recovery in addition to a few other isos <chinoto> I think all I need is to know what to put after "linux (loop)/kernel.trk" in grub.cfg <chinoto> I think I got it, brb <chinoto> (need to reboot to test) <chinoto> nvm, I have no idea what I'm doing <damian> apparently I was supposed to do (hd0,2) because the second argument is 1-based rather than 0-based <damian> but now trinity can't find itself because it expected itself to be located on a cdrom drive rather than a iso on a usb <tonyyarusso> Yeah, that nonsense of having one of them 0-based and the other 1-based is tricky. <ubuntu_> it doesn't see the iso, yet it manages to load anyway... <kermit> while upgrading to ubuntu 10.4, my system locked up, i had to power cycle, now X wont even load, what should i do? <kermit> while upgrading to ubuntu 10.4, my system locked up, i had to power cycle, now X wont even load, what should i do? <Obsidian1723> You upgraded from 91.0? <Obsidian1723> 9.10 <kermit> yes <kermit> someone said do aptitute dist-upgrade from a terminal <Obsidian1723> yeah, the upgrades SOMETIMES work. * tonyyarusso headdesks <kermit> i had set some /proc/sys/vm stuff really high, i think i had a memory deadlock <kermit> i'll set it lower now <Obsidian1723> If you wanmt hack and slah at it for hours you can, but really, I'd load the Live CD and copy your /home over to an external hard drive, then just reformat the PC. <Obsidian1723> Do a clean install. <kermit> i set the background ratio and ratio to 100 hehe <kermit> now i set it to 50/75 <tonyyarusso> kermit: No. To do an upgrade you either use update-manager for a GUI or do-release-upgrade from CLI. Never do a dist-upgrade directly. <Obsidian1723> Upgrades are messy. <tonyyarusso> (You'd know this if you read the instructions....) <kermit> tonyyarusso: release-upgrade? from aptitude? <kermit> what instructions? i have no GUI <tonyyarusso> kermit: No. Just 'do-release-upgrade'. That's the command. <tonyyarusso> kermit: The instructions posted online every time there's a new release. <kermit> tonyyarusso: oh ok thanks <kermit> they post CLI instructions? huh.. i figured webbrowsing in text mode would be futile in 2010 <kermit> omg is that hail? <Obsidian1723> Iveh ad the worse luck with dist upgrades, so I just reformat. <tonyyarusso> kermit: people have to upgrade servers sometime - might as well tell them how. <kermit> tonyyarusso: oh good point <kermit> tonyyarusso: should i ^C the apt-get dist-upgrade then? <kermit> and use the command you suggest <kermit> oh its done <tonyyarusso> http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade <tonyyarusso> For future reference <kermit> in the future i'm hoping not to crash during the GUI upgrade <kermit> but i'll write it down <kermit> tonyyarusso: oh i hadnt started apt-get dist-updtae afterall, just some dpkg command it told me to.. the command you said said i'm already upgrade, so i'm doing aptitude dist-upgrade which is doing lots of things #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-07 <Takyoji> Anyone burnt a .cdr file at all before? <Takyoji> K3B doesn't seem to imply support for the format <Takyoji> and simply renaming it to .iso obviously doesn't work either <ripps> hmm... according to something I read, .cdr is an extension for cd/dvd images created by final cut pro. According to it, they're actually just .iso... <Takyoji> Yea, I realized that when reading from another source. <Takyoji> Last night when I tried by using K3B it didn't say it was a real ISO or something along those lines, but Brasero seemed to accept it just fine. <Takyoji> Erm, not K3B; I was trying to run it in Virtualbox. xP <Takyoji> By the way, anyone have issues shutting down in Karmic? <Takyoji> Erm, Lucid (10.04) I mean <tonyyarusso> Nope <Takyoji> Because the issue seems present on both my desktop and laptop <Takyoji> That when I try to shutdown, it does nothing (sometimes) #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-08 <netbook> summer timeeeeeeee * Takyoji has been done with highschool for a couple days now <kermit> netbook: no, that was yesterday <netbook> heh #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-09 <Takyoji> Anyone used PyGTK at all? <jchristensen> Anyone read Jono's Book, "The Art of Community"? <Takyoji> I've been curious of it previously, but haven't read it <jchristensen> Its quite good, been reading it this past week <Takyoji> ahh <tonyyarusso> I thought about picking up a copy, but haven't so far. <jchristensen> Has been a very interesting read, I'd like to get more active in the community <Takyoji> It's also available freely as a PDF as well, correct? <jchristensen> I'm not sure <Takyoji> http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/downloads/jonobacon-theartofcommunity-1ed.pdf <jchristensen> Good to know. Already purchased it, I'll help support Jono, and save on the eye strain <Takyoji> heh yea <kermit> where should one start looking for a linux job? also if anyone could send me their resume for examples i'd appreciate it. <Takyoji> I'd also be curious as well <ripps> From my experience, if you want to have a job where Linux is the primary focus, you'll probably need to be a serious coder, either that, or a server admim. But employers don't know what to make of linux. It's best to have some more generic degrees, certifications, and job experience. <ripps> Unless, of course, your trying to join an established linux company like redhat or canonical. Either way, you'll probably need some mad coding skills to get hired <kermit> i've been using linux since 1996 and have been coding since 1983 <kermit> the reason that i dont know the first thing about finding a linux job is that i've never had to try before :/ <rlaager> kermit: In what area of the state are you looking for a job? <tonyyarusso> kermit: Of my jobs where I used Linux, here's how I got them: <tonyyarusso> 1) New the guy from previously being co-workers at Erik's Bike Shop <tonyyarusso> 2) Stood out as a student who knew my way around Linux at Saint Paul College, hired first as student help then regular staff <tonyyarusso> 3) Craigslist <tonyyarusso> Dice.com is good for both help-desk monkeys and senior admins, but not much in between currently. <tonyyarusso> Remind me about the resume in the evening. <tonyyarusso> For what those jobs were, 1) random technical help, low-key server admin, 2) combination server admin & workstation support, 3) Linux-based virtual appliance development, testing, documentation, & support <tonyyarusso> 1) Now-defunct web-dev firm, 2) Saint Paul College Computing Careers Department, 3) Nagios, Inc. (current) <kermit> rlaager: minneapolis <kermit> tonyyarusso: thanks! <tonyyarusso> wow, *Knew on that first one <kermit> gnu! <kermit> oh all FOSS ppl should start saynig gnu for new/knew <Obsidian1723> I GNU that <kermit> i think i will, maybe it'll start a movement <tonyyarusso> heh <Takyoji> ITT Technical college sounds just a little Windows-centric <Takyoji> based upon my visit today <tonyyarusso> Doesn't surprise me. <Takyoji> Linux is available as an aside practically. <tonyyarusso> Saint Paul College and Hennepin Tech both had some decent Linux stuff, although I don't know if I'd go as far as Linux-centric. Probably fairly even-handed. <Takyoji> I'd rather do something platform-agnostic and about the actual concepts rather than "You double click this, click this tab, click this button (...)" <tonyyarusso> Metro State uses Linux for some courses too. <tonyyarusso> oh, yeah, no <Takyoji> ahh <tonyyarusso> Saint Paul College has "Operating System Fundamentals" (courses I and II), which use Linux because they can demonstrate the point more in-depth. <Takyoji> My only issue for the "better" colleges would be acceptance, since I'm not Mr. 4.0 GPA or anything of that nature. <Takyoji> And I haven't taken the ACT/SAT <Takyoji> Is it common for colleges to let you just take the test for a class and receive credit (if you obviously pass) without having to pay for that course, or? <tonyyarusso> What "better" colleges offer anything resembling tech courses? <tonyyarusso> Unless you wanted to go for an actual CompSci degree I guess - UMN & St. Olaf both have good stuff for that. <tonyyarusso> No. If you're lucky they might let you take the test and not have to attend, but you'd still have to pay regardless. <Takyoji> Well generally speaking, colleges that have strict acceptance requirements are probably the ones I wouldn't be able to get into, is just one limiting factor for me in general. <Takyoji> For ITT they implied I'd be able to take a test for a course and actually wouldn't have to pay for that course (if I didn't need to go through it) <tonyyarusso> So, St. Olaf is out. Everything else mentioned is in. UMN would probably make you take the ACT or SAT first. <tonyyarusso> h00k: Teach me about debhelper :P <Takyoji> Though I presume U of M is an arm and a leg. <Takyoji> (in cost) <tonyyarusso> Not compared to the "better" schools. Compared to the community colleges yes. <tonyyarusso> 2009-10 tuition and fees for new students (based on two semesters of full-time enrollment) <tonyyarusso> Minnesota residents - $11,542 <Takyoji> and for U of M, I'd pretty much need full dedication towards it, or would be able to have a job at the same time? <h00k> tonyyarusso: uuuum <h00k> debhelper, I bet ripps would know. <tonyyarusso> For comparison, St. John's University: <tonyyarusso> For the 2010-2011 academic year: <tonyyarusso> * Tuition and fees: $31,576 <tonyyarusso> h00k: true * tonyyarusso pokes the absent ripps <h00k> I don't know enough to be able to help you :( <Takyoji> I think you can ask for a mentor with using debhelper and so on <h00k> tonyyarusso: or..Amaranth I bet would know <tonyyarusso> yeah, but -motu is pretty dead atm <Takyoji> over the MOTU mailing list I believe <Takyoji> ahh <h00k> tonyyarusso: Amaranth poked his head in before in -offtopic <Takyoji> then resurrect them. :P * Takyoji plays Gish <Takyoji> Perhaps we could have a meeting or something via IRC or something for those curious of doing deb packaging <tonyyarusso> That'd be good, yes. Michigan does that a lot. <Takyoji> and could also work on accommodating learning materials/printouts <Obsidian1723> http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/may2010/typhoid read it and the white paper at the bottom. <kermit> i've been rather unsuccesfully self-employed for a long time, i'm having a hard time with this "employment history" part of my resume.. i have skills, i just don't know how to make anyone believe that i do. <kermit> how do you get past HR to the techies who can guage your skills on their own merits? <h00k> magics <kermit> maybe targetting smaller businesses who don't have an HR department.. <Obsidian1723> kermit, thats where certs are handy.. HR rou8nd files many who dont have X Y and Z <Obsidian1723> certs alone, like experience alone, arent valid. <Obsidian1723> You need both. <Obsidian1723> For certs, in this economy, there are MANY unemployeed MCSE, CCNA, etc, so for for something like the RHCE, Security+, Linux+, Juniper certs, Ethical Hacker Cert, etc. <kermit> Obsidian1723: rou8nd? <Obsidian1723> A lot of it too is how your resume reads <Obsidian1723> - 8 typo <kermit> "round"? <Obsidian1723> I can look at your resume if you want, finese it out a bit. <kermit> i thought i'd always be self employeed, i have no certs <kermit> you're already on the list to send it to, when i finish writing it :) <Obsidian1723> Yeah, Ive been at it 32 years, never got "The Papers" until now. <kermit> and, thanks <Obsidian1723> You have my email? <kermit> no <Obsidian1723> rhonda96@example.net <kermit> I had $500k just 3 years ago, this economy wiped me out faster than I could react. <kermit> i guess i'm a better coder than investor <Takyoji> Didn't know there was something called "Ethical Hacker Certification" <kermit> haha <Obsidian1723> what are your areas of expertise? <Obsidian1723> There is. Security certs are big. Surprisingly, you dont need them for the area Im going into, but I want them anyway. <Obsidian1723> Right now I have a DCSE, Network+, Linux+, and 32 years expedrience. <Obsidian1723> and I cant still type worth a damn <Obsidian1723> Kermit, what are your areas of exertise? and what areas do you have ewxperience in? they arent always the same. <kermit> Obsidian1723: my best skill is manipulating large sets of textual data with efficient combinations of bash/awk, gnu find/bin/text utils, and whatever custom C code is necessary, but i can admin too, i've been running linux since 1996 and have been on PCs since 1983... but the this resume is my top priority and you'll have it soon. <kermit> by large i mean, where cpu/memory/disk bandwidth is a bottleneck <Obsidian1723> ok, now, I would recommend a functional format vs a time line one. <kermit> ? <kermit> resume format? <kermit> yeah i pretty much have to do it that way <Obsidian1723> For example, my current job, and last 2 jobs before it, all dealt with custom software. I can use that. At one job, I monitored ATMs over high-security networks, at this job, I work in biometric security, I can link the two. <Obsidian1723> So since you can C program, that can be tied into bash scripting/programming, which can tie into administration. <kermit> i'd be a fine admin, but it wouldnt be up to my potential <Obsidian1723> You could also develop. The big thing is: What can I do for YOU? This is what I can do, how I can do it, and more over, here is HOW I did it, WHEN and WHERE I did it in the past, and how I can do it and benefit you now. <kermit> ok <Obsidian1723> You mean you can do more than admin? <kermit> i mean i'm a coder at heart <kermit> particularly, algorithms <Obsidian1723> Well, admin and developers/programmers are a different breed. Admins want network security, and developers/programmers whine about it because it "breaks" their code so they want root access to get things to work. <kermit> and an understanding of the underlying hardware and OS to make efficient routines <Obsidian1723> Then you should code. <Obsidian1723> You wopnt be happy admining <kermit> the most ideal job i ever had was generating statistics on DNA sequences, which was computationally intensive and didn't fit in RAM so eliminated typically taught techniques of 'load, process, store' <kermit> Obsidian1723: well, i would be if what most admins tell me is true, that they only really work 1/3 of the time ;) <Obsidian1723> haha not quite true. <tonyyarusso> 32 years experience eh? Obsidian1723 is old. <kermit> if we divide my hours on a PC over 40, and count that as the number of weeks, i have that many ;) but i'm only 34. <Obsidian1723> Started at age 11 in 1978., <Obsidian1723> 43 now., <kermit> Obsidian1723: are you old enough to look at moder cell "phones" and think "100 new features that will take months to learn wont make up for 1 feature i'm accustomed to in my 2003 phone" ? :) <Obsidian1723> yup <Obsidian1723> If I wan t Internet, I have a desktyop and laptop. <kermit> if i wanted internet, i'd have stayed home ;) <Obsidian1723> I want my phone to be a phone. Texting is going backwards. If I wanted to comminicate old skool, Id use morse code, faster than texting. <Obsidian1723> dee dee da da deet da da deet <kermit> Obsidian1723: i miss my startac, it was 1/4 speaker, you didnt have to line up a pinhole with your ear. it's still the best *phone* ever. <Obsidian1723> ..---.-.-- <Obsidian1723> :D <kermit> but it cant text, and doestn have a calender, and i cant set certain people's ringtones to "none" <Obsidian1723> I had Sprint disable texting on my phone. <kermit> who's going to dc612 tommorow? <kermit> http://dc612.org/ <Takyoji> If I was told prior I would have planned for it. :P <kermit> Takyoji: it's monthly, maybe next month then <Takyoji> ahh <kermit> Takyoji: so also is the 2600 meeting <kermit> both meet in or near downtown, which is ideal for me <kermit> downtown mpls <netbook> that sounds cool <kermit> mn2600 meetings get about a dozen people, dc612 had about 30 <netbook> don't know much about penetration testing though <kermit> i've never heard anyone talk about that at either of those <netbook> one of my coworkers is working pen testing cell networks <netbook> maybe he will go <kermit> anyone who likes *nix fits in well at either, they usually arent actually penetration testing themed <kermit> back before people did financial transactoins online, that was just an ordinary part of the fun ;) <kermit> when 95% of the people on university servers were on stolen accounts #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-10 <Takyoji> So; how would be able to be more active? <Takyoji> would we* <Obsidian1723> hmmmm? <Takyoji> We don't even have meetings anymore. :P <Obsidian1723> Well, I made a suggestion quite awhile ago, but it feel on deaf ears. I suggested the idea here at at Free Geek Twin Cities, that the two should work together. <kermit> i'd rudely schedule meetings at the same time and place (a coffee shop) as mn 2600 <kermit> first friday, 6pm, java j's, warehouse district <kermit> they might just move their meeting, but even the most old school hackerish "i could be using gentoo" types are all grown up now and like when things just work because they're busy with other things. <kermit> (by just work, i mean, by using ubuntu, of course) <Takyoji> Woo http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/01/make-grub-themes-beautiful-look-nicer.html <Takyoji> Also, I'll give a cookie to whomever would be able to give me instructions on how to decrypt the file of a keyring. #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-11 <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: "the file of a keyring"? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: you could schedule a meeting... <Takyoji> ~/.gnome2/keyrings/ <Takyoji> otherwise I realized I can just copy the keyring files to that folder and unlock them via gnome-keyring-manager <netbook> well I biked past the dc612 map location to check it out, but didn't see any door for "hack factory" <kermit> oh hell i forgot to go <kermit> i should have set a phone alarm <kermit> oh i was more interested when it meets 4 blocks from my house at a resturant with steak. <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: your suggestion didn't fall on deaf ears; just distracted/busy ones. Feel free to make it happen. <Obsidian1723> ok... I need to go make dinner, but msg me, im more than willing to help. <damian> What is the easiest way to setup my thumbdrive to multiboot a set of isos? (For a future installfest and recovery tools) <Takyoji> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=multiboot+usb+flash+drive <damian> I was looking for an opinion, I've been looking for quite awhile <tonyyarusso> h00k, exigraff: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/684492783/more-great-messaging-menu-apps <h00k> tonyyarusso: I saw that :( <h00k> tonyyarusso: the thing I don't like is that it shows the numbers and not the names <_diablo> Takyoji, that's a great link. I'm repartitioning my flash drive now. It's been only holding 1 disc for far too long #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-12 <Takyoji> Any significant difference between gzip and bzip? <kermit> bzip takse a lot more cpu to compress, but compresses better <kermit> at least 10x as much cpu for maybe 10-20% better compression <kermit> for another 10% compression and another 150% of cpu you could use lzma <Takyoji> ahh #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-13 <Takyoji> Anyone apt with the wizardry of patch files? <Takyoji> I need to update a customized phpBB theme; via a patch file, which would probably be the most sane approach. <Takyoji> of which* <kermit> Takyoji: its pretty simple, it'll give you clear feedback if something doesnt go right <Takyoji> Ewww, apparently ITT Tech uses Windows Live ID.. #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-15 <exigraff> tonyyarusso: little late, but thanks, this has potential <exigraff> though I agree with h00k, the notifications could use more content. the notifyosd bubbles are devoid of anything useful. <Takyoji> What are some reasonable brands for wireless cards? <kermit> oddly my intel cuts out a lot, so not that.. and broadcom has a history of closed APIs which causes problems <kermit> linksys is linux famliar, thats a possibility <kermit> nanosys is linux friendly, so any of these might be good http://www.nanosys1.com/networking-modem-wireless-networking-pci-network-adapter.html <kermit> Takyoji: ^ <Takyoji> Another thing I'm curious of is: does USB or PCMCIA supply more power? <Takyoji> I was thinking on getting a USB wireless interface with packet-injection support and other things to toy around with various security-related things. <kermit> i would assume that to meet whatever standards there are it wouldnt be on a port that doesnt have enough power <kermit> i wouldnt think the WiFi certification would hand it out to an underpowered device <Takyoji> ahh #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-16 <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Intel, Intel, and Intel. <Takyoji> ahh <kermit> my intel card needs to be 'rebooted' hourly <kermit> a 5100 <kermit> (i have to remove and reload the module) * h00k reboots kermit <kermit> i feel much better now, thank you <h00k> jono asked me to spread the word on Community Leadership Summit 2010: http://communityleadershipsummit.com/ <Obsidian1723> who? <diablo_> h00k: I wish I could make it out to Portland :( <tonyyarusso> Why does Obsidian1723 always leave before I can answer his questions? #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-17 <kermit> why does he leave at all <tonyyarusso> beats me <tonyyarusso> http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_l446iv88Ko1qcqnj1o1_r1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1276816097&Signature=Ev6PmX%2FoTDLLFRWFgz6RVV%2FI%2F7U%3D <sparklehistory> mmm, pizza <tonyyarusso> http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/shutting-the-doors-a-decade-of-bank-failures/?display=wide <sparklehistory> It's like popcorn...first a few kernals pop and then the whole thing goes nuts! <sparklehistory> At least this time around when the banks closed, most of the time the deposits were just transferred to another bank rather than being completely gone and having to be replaced by the FDIC. <h00k> _diablo: myself too :( <_diablo> h00k: I guess we'll have to trust the rest to rep us well enough :) <h00k> _diablo: I talked to Jono briefly, apparently there won't be any podcasts or videos from it :( <_diablo> weird... any reason given? <h00k> no, I didn't ask, he was off to a conference call <_diablo> hmmmm, that's a little worrisome. <_diablo> I get a bit paranoid whenever canonical meets and doesn't make its notes public :) * tonyyarusso stabs h00k <tonyyarusso> You know python, right? <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: That's a bit violent ;) <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Did you at least do it with a lightsaber or something equally geeky? <_diablo> tonyyarusso: see, it's hard to talk with a dagger in your throat. <h00k> tonyyarusso: what what. <h00k> tonyyarusso: kinda/sure <tonyyarusso> h00k: I'm trying to modify feedparser to understand CAP... <h00k> tonyyarusso: I'm half asleep, what is CAP? <h00k> tonyyarusso: I may be able to assist during the day better tomorrow if you're available <tonyyarusso> Common Alerting Protocol <tonyyarusso> It's an XML format for public safety announcements. <h00k> Ooh, gotcha. okay. <h00k> I've done similar feedparsers in php :) <h00k> for instance, twitter, flickr, and lastfm (see anthonyrhook.com) <h00k> and google calendar on another supersecret prokect <h00k> project rather <h00k> tonyyarusso: interesting, I was looking at NOAA feeds and parsing them recently, maybe I'll try with some pythons <h00k> this might be fun. <tonyyarusso> h00k: The goal is to make a Nagios plugin that will check the status of alerts in your area. <tonyyarusso> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tonyyarusso/+junk/check_cap <h00k> tonyyarusso: I'd try and help, if applicable <h00k> although, i really need sleep atm <tonyyarusso> http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/detail?id=58 shows a patch that someone else made to add support for a format. <h00k> I can try to check this out tomorrow <Takyoji> Heh http://yizzle.com/whatthehex/ <Takyoji> I'm surprisingly quite accurate. xP <h00k> and I'm settled in for the day #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-18 <tonyyarusso> Looks like you might get your storms sparklehistory <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Yup! <tonyyarusso> Reasonably decent article about Conficker: http://theweek.com/article/index/203969/the-last-word-the-ultimate-computer-worm <Takyoji> Anyone ever used a radio receiver device in Linux via a PC/IF radio cable? <Takyoji> I have a receiver that you can connect to a computer and collect data and/or control the device with. <Takyoji> I'll be returning in under half an hour or so <tonyyarusso> Hey h00k, lookit what I can do! <tonyyarusso> >>> print doc.getElementsByTagName('eventCode')[0].getElementsByTagName('value')[0].firstChild.nodeValue <tonyyarusso> TOR <tonyyarusso> >>> print doc.getElementsByTagName('geocode')[0].getElementsByTagName('value')[0].firstChild.nodeValue <tonyyarusso> 027039 <tonyyarusso> (Translation: Tornado Warning for Dodge county) <tonyyarusso> also, scratch what I said yesterday about modifying feedparser - I'm an idiot. <Takyoji> Depends on the URL though :P <tonyyarusso> what now Takyoji ? <Takyoji> Nothing; the JS you're talking of isn't specific to Dodge county was all I was saying <tonyyarusso> JS?....... <tonyyarusso> This is Python, parsing XML. <Takyoji> Oh, interesting <Takyoji> Looked like JS with the typical function chaining <tonyyarusso> and 027039 == FIPS6 code for Dodge county, MN <Takyoji> Aside from doc, since it's document <Takyoji> (which would be the only thing to throw it off from looking like true JS) <Takyoji> Anyway, anyone done any radio-like things on Linux at all? <tonyyarusso> So matching 027039 tells you where it's for, not URL-dependent. <tonyyarusso> 027123 is Ramsey county <Takyoji> ahh <tonyyarusso> (These are the area codes used by the National Weather Service in their SAME radio broadcasts) <tonyyarusso> 927137 is the south-east corner of St. Louis county (Duluth) <Takyoji> otherwise on Saturday I'll be on vacation for about a week <tonyyarusso> a leading 0 means the county is not subdivided. Otherwise it's 1,2,3 4,5,6 7,8,9 west-central-east, north to south. <Takyoji> otherwise as implied, I'll be in the Grand Rapids area for a week. <Takyoji> I notice jenkinbr happens to be the only one mapped to that area. <Takyoji> Looks practically like +90% of the Ubuntu Minnesota LoCo team is in the metro <tonyyarusso> or at least of those who have mapped themselves, yeah <Takyoji> Well yea <Takyoji> It just seems like a handful more mapped in the metro area since last time I checked <tonyyarusso> Probably because our outstate people are a bunch of slackers who never plan any events or anything. <tonyyarusso> *nudgenudge* <Takyoji> So then what else would there be to do other than an installfest at this time? <tonyyarusso> Ubuntu Hours! <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: 'cause that worked so well last time <Takyoji> Now that I'm finally done with high school! <tonyyarusso> Presentations about random topics! <tonyyarusso> LAN party! <tonyyarusso> Pizza & movie night - you can watch Antitrust :P <Takyoji> So now I don't have an excuse for no Ubuntu Hour, aside from location and money (so I don't seem like some guy coming to a building to just steal their wireless everyday) <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: What's a LAN party? <Takyoji> :P <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: gaming <Takyoji> Tremulous! <tonyyarusso> bzflag! <Takyoji> This small "city"/town.. <Takyoji> I know a LAN party could be possible anywhere there's electricity, since you don't need the Internet; but that may be a turn off to some.. <tonyyarusso> You have 21,000 people. That's plenty. <Takyoji> I'm complaining about buildings available though. :P <Takyoji> otherwise I don't have an official job as of yet <Takyoji> Heh, it's be interesting if I could also receive raw ATSC transmission using my scanning receiver and watch television on my laptop. xP <Takyoji> Bleh, Excel sheets: http://www.dtv.gov/broadcastersupport.html <Takyoji> They could even just use CSV * tonyyarusso is sad that Saturn is dead <Takyoji> It's interesting how it seems like the idol browsing shifting from Firefox to Chrome in like under a year or less <kermit> i rarely use chrome yet it's already given me some error about a currupted settings file <kermit> so it doesnt seem too reliable.. though firefox 3.6.3 has a bug that deletes my form history randomly. <Takyoji> Oh fun <Takyoji> I haven't had an errors with Chrome yet <Takyoji> any errors* <tonyyarusso> http://www.ifitwasmyhome.com/#loc=Ontonagon%2C%20MI%2C%20USA&lat=46.8710525&lng=-89.3140302&x=-88.523014575&y=47.446263695399125&z=7 <sparklehistory> hmm, I see it got Split Rock and Gooseberry today <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen that on Rachel Maddow yet <Takyoji> Anyone used barry or berry4all at all? <h00k> tonyyarusso: lookit what? <h00k> tonyyarusso: oh * h00k reads backlog <tonyyarusso> http://xkcd.com/754/ <kermit> i can't read that, i still havent read 753 yet <_diablo> tonyyarusso: yeah, i thought it was amusing <Takyoji> Yaaaaay! https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere <Takyoji> By the way, does the default encryption method of SSH tunnelling increase the size of the content significantly than when the content wasn't encrypted? <Obsidian1723> y6es <Obsidian1723> yes <Takyoji> because I'd love to be able to have an encrypted SOCKS tunnel when using GPRS (or whatever the correct physical protocol is) <Obsidian1723> heh <Obsidian1723> Well..... <Obsidian1723> You could setup a VPN tunnel and SSH over to it, then have a proxsy server on the other end, and use w3m. <Obsidian1723> n ice an encrypted, too much though so that it'd east cpu, bandwidth, edtc. <Takyoji> I'll be tethering through a cellphone from a laptop <Takyoji> and will have images disabled in the web browser <Obsidian1723> ahh <Takyoji> and I think OpenSSH is capable of compressing data as well <kermit> i'm skeptical that encryption increases the data size, are you sure? <Takyoji> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/93451/does-aes-128-or-256-encryption-expand-the-data-if-so-by-how-much <Takyoji> I have a feeling that only Blowfish is the one that actually significantly increases in size <Takyoji> and perhaps a few oldie methods <Takyoji> SSH typically uses RSA/DSA, right? <kermit> my ssh doesnt anyway <kermit> (doesnt make it bigger i mean) <kermit> OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu3, OpenSSL 0.9.8k 25 Mar 2009 <kermit> or at least not more than 0.3% <tonyyarusso> Increase, yes, but I don't know if it's "significantly". <Takyoji> Another thing I've always been curious of: is there a way to throttle a whole system's connection (perhaps a virtual machine for example), just to see how something loads on slower connections? <Takyoji> (in terms of web development and so forth) <Obsidian1723> Yes, you can do that easily enough. You need a managed switch to do that though, so you can throttle the one PCs connection. <Obsidian1723> Just limit the bandwidth u/l and d/l speeds <Obsidian1723> I have such a switch for sale, if you are interested. <kermit> iptables does it <Obsidian1723> I'd still do the switch. <Takyoji> after all, it's only for testing; it's not like I need it for throttling someone's connection on enterprise network or anything of that extent. <Obsidian1723> Hardware is supperior to software everytime. It bottlenecks less. If you could eliminate software and everything was hardware, youd still have bottlenecks, but less of them. Your PC would instantly power on. <Obsidian1723> I hear ya. <Obsidian1723> I run Cisco switches in my home's server room and have my hosue wired with RG-58 and CAT5e, b ut thats me. <Takyoji> By the way, does the "shred" command only write random data over the exact location the file is? <Takyoji> I though it was to scramble it (or just 0 it), and delete it as well. <tonyyarusso> It can do any or all of the above <Obsidian1723> The feds can still recover data though. Only surefire way is a hard drive shredder. <kermit> Takyoji: strace <Takyoji> So it can still be recovered if it's overwritten several times and read to check the integrity, then nulled? :P <tonyyarusso> I love how people think the NSA can magically recover data when all evidence says that's bogus. <Obsidian1723> and does that evidence come from people who work with them? <kermit> tonyyarusso: yeah i know a guy who does that for a living and he says you really cant on modern drives <tonyyarusso> Exactly. <Obsidian1723> kermit, what was his reasoning? <tonyyarusso> We don't even have evidence that they can recover data after a single pass of 0s, much less multiple random passes. * tonyyarusso is a computer forensics major, btw <Obsidian1723> You guys need to look into computer forensics. I think you'll be severly surprised aqt just what is possble. * Obsidian1723 works in security with govt agencies btw. <tonyyarusso> What actually is possible, or what your boss tells you is possible to cover his ass multiple times over? :P <Obsidian1723> There's some pretty good tools out there, like I.N.S.E.R.T., Trinuty Rescue Disk, Hirens (which has OnTrack with it), BackTrack, F.I.R.E., but they pale compared to what the public will never have. <tonyyarusso> Tools don't change what's possible, only how hard it is to train someone to do it. <Obsidian1723> Well, even with the right tools and training, the natural mindset cant be taught. You can teach someone to be a surgeon, and they may be good, but then someone else has this something extra ability, even though they went through the same training.. Itsl ike that. <kermit> what's trinity resuce disk have anything to do with restoring overwritten data? <Obsidian1723> Just beause you can play the notes, does not mean you can make the music. <kermit> you must not mean 'trinity rescue kit' <Obsidian1723> Just saying there are tools out there for sniffing things out, but not quite on par with what the govt has. <kermit> "trinity rescue kit" is just a distribution of linx <kermit> linux <tonyyarusso> So you're saying the government has magic. Because that's the only explanation for what you're claiming. <Obsidian1723> tony, believe me or not. I CAN'T say. <tonyyarusso> Typical :P <Obsidian1723> No. Typical CA <Takyoji> Considering it could just be a write buffer for a harddrive or something similar that just needs to be cleared or overwritten <tonyyarusso> "Really, trust me!" <kermit> hirens also appears to be simply software <Obsidian1723> Like I said.. belive me or not, but I cant put my job at risk, sorry. <Obsidian1723> Youve never signed aq CA I take it tony? <tonyyarusso> Yeah well. Once there's even some tiniest shred of a reason to believe you're not full of crap I'll consider it. <Obsidian1723> -q <kermit> i must have the wrong 'hirens with ontrack' as well as the wrong 'trinity rescue' <Obsidian1723> It doesnt matter if you believe me or not, that doesnt change what is. Itsn ot like your disbelieving me won't make it no longer possible. <kermit> unless you're claiming an ordinary PC can recover overwritten data. <Obsidian1723> Im just staing what is, thats all. <kermit> (as those are just PC software kits) <tonyyarusso> Tell you what, why don't you bring in a disk I give you to work, and come back and tell me what's on it? <Obsidian1723> kermit, what version of hirens? Maybe they removed it. last I looked, verion 9 something had it. <kermit> version 10.5 is still just software <Takyoji> and I find it entertaining that EFF also strongly believes in the use of shred as well; they must be non-believers as well. :P <Takyoji> (referring to https://ssd.eff.org/tech/deletion ) <Obsidian1723> Well, its like locking your front door... it will keep most people out, but not everyone. <Obsidian1723> Honestly, most people dont need to worry. Im simply saying that if they want it, thyey will get it. <tonyyarusso> I'm still waiting for an answer to my challenge. Are you going to put anything behind your claims, or just keep spouting them? <Takyoji> I believe you're along the lines of forgetting to delete all instances of the data <Obsidian1723> tony, do you feel threatened or something? <kermit> i'm still waiting to know if he claims ordinary PC hardware can read overwritten data <Takyoji> such as temporary file <Takyoji> files* <kermit> since the tools he cited are merely software <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: eh? Why would I feel threatened? <Obsidian1723> I dont know if hardware can do that or not. I work with the agencies, but they get all the neat toys. I just know they exist. <kermit> we're arguing that not even specialized hardware can, so that would put the claim even farther away. <Takyoji> People just get annoyed with the whole wizardry case of "i can hax the NSA's database!" <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Do you actually use these tools, or just hear about them in the break room? <Obsidian1723> I do know there are software programs t hat the govt has that people do not. <Takyoji> (which are the ones that say such for personal ego, typically) <Obsidian1723> not in the break room. <tonyyarusso> That did not answer the question. What is your job? <Obsidian1723> Working with various hardware and software for govt agencies, and no, I am not going into specifics. Again, I signed a CA. <Obsidian1723> MKy hands are legally tied. <Obsidian1723> but I do not do data recovery, I can tell you that. <tonyyarusso> So in other words, you don't know what you're talking about. End of story. <Obsidian1723> If you believe so, or not...either way it doesnt matter or change what is. <Takyoji> Then I have a feeling that the offer still stands. :P <Obsidian1723> Im simply stating what is, thats all. <tonyyarusso> No, it doesn't. And "what it is" is that your claims are utter bunk. <Obsidian1723> So you want me to break a CA? <Obsidian1723> f that. <kermit> this reminds me of when someone tried to defend the use of the unit "kw/h" <Obsidian1723> I need my job thanks. <tonyyarusso> I'm not asking you to tell me how - I'm just asking you to prove you can do it, and magically come back with the data. <Obsidian1723> You didn't read the part about where I don't use the fun toys, but only know of them. <tonyyarusso> And don't have any friends at work? How sad. <Obsidian1723> I dont know how to fly an airplane either, but I know it can be done. <Takyoji> Then it can be delegated to those who do <Obsidian1723> lotsa freinds at work actually. whjy would you AS|U|ME otherwise? <tonyyarusso> Yeah, and we've all seen airplanes fly. That's all we're asking for here. <Obsidian1723> and I can no more prove to you what can be done, any more than I can prove to you what is at Area 51 (and that I DON'T know what is there..wish I did.) <tonyyarusso> Sure you can. You just won't. Because you don't want us to know the real answer, which is nothing. <Obsidian1723> like I said... I know it can be done, not my area. I deal with other aspects of security, not forensics. <tonyyarusso> You don't "know" anything - you've merely been told. <Obsidian1723> Tony if it is nothing, then why are you so convinced so? <tonyyarusso> huh? <kermit> Although Gutmann's theory may be correct, there's no practical evidence that overwritten data can be recovered. Moreover, there are good reasons to think that it cannot.[5][6][7] * tonyyarusso sends over a Magic Eye poster to "zoom and enhance" until a license plate number appears for something easier to start with <kermit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery#Overwritten_data <Obsidian1723> Tomny, that's a strawman argument.; You've been told many things that you can't prove by that same measure because you weren't there, yet you still accept them. Arguing with people on the Internet is like winning the special olympics.. you know the rest. It is what it is. Believem e or not. Cool either way man. Just dont get busted by the feds and find out, thats all. <Obsidian1723> taqke it, leave it, matters not to me. <tonyyarusso> Mmmmmmm, wouldn't be a government job without spreading unsubstantiated fear, would it Obsidian1723 ? <Obsidian1723> no. I leave the FUD to MS <tonyyarusso> You'd think you'd care at least a little bit about your personal integrity. Oh well. <Obsidian1723> oh and your camera thing is interesting. it is a well known fact that the satillitie cameras can read right along with you if you read a book outside. <Obsidian1723> tony, I can about my job and a CA, oh well. <tonyyarusso> And your job/CA requires you to lie to the public. Gotcha. <Obsidian1723> if I didnth ave integrity, would the CA matter? think about it. <Obsidian1723> I never said I lied. Now you accuse me of lying? really.. the grapes are soure arent they>? <tonyyarusso> I was accusing you of lying like 20 minutes ago, and yes, still am. <tonyyarusso> That would be the word for making false claims, which is what you are doing. <Obsidian1723> well, in order to prove otherwise I would have to break a legal contract, so I wont do that, Like I said, believe it or not, matters not to me. So why are you still chewing on the topic? What does it matter to you so much? It's like the Christian that believes only out of fear. Are you afraid? Ok. there is no boogeyman. The govt is yoiur freind. they cannot find your naughty picutres. better? <kermit> http://pastebin.com/eUDXUxqC -- a hilarious "kw/h" "debate" <tonyyarusso> Which clause of your CA prevents you from showing that it's possible exactly? And I care because one way is true, and the other is bogus, and you're peddling the bogus one. <Obsidian1723> Nothing o nthe CA prevents me from saying its possible, I just can't provide Proof. "Ok here, call XYZ at XCD agency and hes at X # anjd.." ummmm no. <Obsidian1723> again..... <Obsidian1723> well, in order to prove otherwise I would have to break a legal contract, so I wont do that, Like I said, believe it or not, matters not to me. So why are you still chewing on the topic? What does it matter to you so much? It's like the Christian that believes only out of fear. Are you afraid? Ok. there is no boogeyman. The govt is yoiur freind. they cannot find your naughty picutres. better? <kermit> why'd you cite tools that dont do what you claim is possible? <Obsidian1723> merely giving examples of tools that the public has access too. I suppoose OnTrack would have been a better example. <tonyyarusso> I like how you once again decided to answer a different question than the one I asked. It's that sort of thing that provides a glaring red flag that you're being dishonest. <kermit> kroll on track? <kermit> thats funny, because Kroll is where the friend i mentioned who told me it's impossible works. <tonyyarusso> kermit: Yes, although it is written Kroll OnTrack as he did. That much at least was true. <tonyyarusso> also, if you want to mention tools the public uses, FTK and EnCase should be on your list, since that's what most of the private sector has. <Obsidian1723> Do you really think the govert wants proof out there that they can get at whatever they want unless the hard drive is destroyed beyond reason like a shredder, blowtorch, etc? <Obsidian1723> think about it. <Obsidian1723> Yeah, EnCase is pretty good actually, best of the 3 #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-06-19 <tonyyarusso> Tools only let you get data if your opponent is dumber than you. An informed opponent can not be beaten by technology. <Obsidian1723> true, thats why informed people shred the hard drive. <kermit> Obsidian1723: maybe your coworkers use the word 'shred' to refer to what we were by the term, not physically shreding. <Obsidian1723> Funny thing is, part of SOX compliance is that all companies that are publically traded, must store all hard drivers for 10 years in case the feds need them. <Obsidian1723> When I say shred, I mean phjysically shred. <Obsidian1723> Data recovery is sticky, especially when you mess with HIPPA and SOX, good times.. glad I dont do that shyt personally. <Obsidian1723> but as for my drives, because of financial data, I physically run them thrugh a hard drive shredder. they are cheap enough to just buy new ones. <Obsidian1723> If a drive dies, its shredded physcially. end of story. Not even the NSA can get that data. <tonyyarusso> Maybe it's all a scam by the hard drive makers :P <Obsidian1723> doubtful <Obsidian1723> There's many court cases which involve forensics (computer) in some way. <kermit> cite one that recovered overwritten data on a drive made in the last decade <tonyyarusso> What kermit said. <Takyoji> of just simple temporary files or things that could be recovered with even PhotoRec <tonyyarusso> I know the stuff in the court cases - that's what I study. But it's nothing like what you're saying. <Takyoji> for the criminals that don't know crap about technology. <kermit> heh to recover NON overwritten data, i've uset 'strings' and 'grep' on the dev <tonyyarusso> Hell, I've used photorec just to recover from a misplaced rm command. <Obsidian1723> most dont know, true. <kermit> uset/used <Obsidian1723> yerah <Obsidian1723> Do a 35-pass of 1 and 0, that will keep most people out. <Obsidian1723> *most* <Obsidian1723> Just like a WEP key would keep most people out. <Obsidian1723> for wifi <Obsidian1723> most people are technologically idiotic <Obsidian1723> They know nothing. <kermit> Takyoji: about your original question regarding the shred command, in theory some filesystems might write to different physical locations than the original data, for either wear leveling or speed, and i suspect shred doesnt take that into account. <Obsidian1723> but that doesnt tive carte blache for not beding secure on your part <kermit> Takyoji: the xfs devs tell me theirs does not. <Takyoji> ahh; it's on EXT4 by the way <Obsidian1723> just stay out of the gunsights of the feds and youll all be ok. <Obsidian1723> peace <tonyyarusso> The shred man page says quite explicitly that it's intended for use on entire devices. <kermit> i bet all this time he's been handing a drive off to some department for "shredding" not realizing what they meant by the word <Takyoji> Most likely <tonyyarusso> aww, big bad scary guvvmint man ran away. Guess we'll have to go find some other conspiracy theory to talk about for a while. <tonyyarusso> nah, a lot of government agencies actually do shred them - what better way to waste taxpayer money and make it sound legit? If people knew it was unnecessary they'd get mad, so clearly that can't happen. <Takyoji> I just had a simpler idea for the basic cryptology. <Takyoji> Or tunnelling for that matter <Takyoji> I'll just install an HTTPS/HTTP proxy on my web server. <Takyoji> of which would force HTTPS <Takyoji> and would gzip the content <Takyoji> Just a simple PHP script is all it would need to be, even <Takyoji> Gah, the US Pirate Party has an IRC server with the worst availability <kermit> worse than undernet? <kermit> php script for what? <Takyoji> It would be like a typical anonymizer, but would force you to connect via HTTPS, would require you to authenticate in order to use it, and would compress any of the proxied content. <Takyoji> It would be exactly all I need <Takyoji> I could probably even write it myself, or modify a pre-existing one to do what I want. <Takyoji> because I don't need to tunnel some instant messaging or anything like that; all I need is HTTP <kermit> i dont see what all that has to do with php though <kermit> that sounds like just some config options in a proxy server <Takyoji> I'd just plop a PHP file on my webserver <Takyoji> rather than having to install some daemon or anything extensive <kermit> i dont know php but it sounds harder than just running a proxy server <Takyoji> How do you select a character in a specific range using regular expressions? Such as from 0x0590 to 0x05FF <Takyoji> Oh fun, grub-setup segfaulted! :D <Takyoji> When you dual-boot with a Windows OS, and use GRUB,
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