#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-01 <Hoggs> Yo, G <Hoggs> Nginx beneficial to a fully dynamic website? <G> Hoggs: hey <G> Hoggs: in what way? <G> ajmitch: btw, Inspire & WorldExchange are already doing IPv6 trials <hads> Inspire I would consider. <hads> Hoggs: No real point if it's completely dynamic. I've never seen a completely dynamic site though. <G> hads: I'd consider Inspire too, although Orcon seem decent enough for me atm <G> and well, their caps a tad low by comparison, but yeah <G> Hoggs: personally, I just use nginx for everything, i.e. no Apache. But I'm not doing anything really demanding. <Hoggs> G: I read Nginx/FastCGI/PHP is actually a lot slower than apache2+PHP <Hoggs> not that my site gets a lot of hits or anything <G> interesting, makes some sense though <G> especially if you are comparing it to apache+mod_php <Hoggs> Yeah, FastCGI has too much overhead <G> now, on the other hand.... <G> with fastcgi you can be smart <Hoggs> memcached? <G> Hoggs: wasn't thinking that, was thinking towards the proxy/app server model <Hoggs> hmm? <G> just run fastcgi listeners on the app servers, sans HTTP server, and loadbalance via nginx the fastcgi requests <G> too crazy? <Hoggs> Uhr <Hoggs> I guess there's nothing wrong with Apache <Hoggs> :P <G> i.e. in a way, run it similar to how some people run django/turbogears/rails etc, <G> Hoggs: oh yeah, but I was just thinking in large deployments <Hoggs> In large deployments it's much easier to shape software around your hosting model as you're usually the developer <G> I know some people that have their setup in that sorta model, and just realised, sans HTTP server would be possible w/ fastcgi <Hoggs> But more of a pain hosting out of the box stuff <G> Hoggs: btw, watching the Cricket? * Hoggs doesn't reslly follow cricket <Hoggs> really* <G> ahhh getting close according to cricinfo, Pakistan need 27 from 23 <ol> hmm, how do you add an applet to the panel when there's no unused panel to click on? <zapzupnz> You know, I'd really like an answer to that too. <G> ol: gaps between icons? <zapzupnz> I always have to move things around, and that's a pain in the patootie. <ol> so it's not just me... <G> very small gaps <ol> there don't seem to be any <ol> at best it's a usability disaster <zapzupnz> The need to artificially ensure that there are gaps is a workaround, really. <ol> hmm, i finally got the menu I think i wanted, but add to panel was greyed out <G> Hoggs: talking about websites, I just saw this gem on a page not found error page: "This page is intentionally left ugly ;-)" <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <chilts> another fine Wellington morning <ajmitch> delightful morning in dunedin <ajmitch> nice & damp <ojwb> morning <snail> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> nice day up here in auckland too #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-02 <ibeardslee> hads: just don't know what to say <ibeardslee> but yeah that post from AndrewTD is nice and clear <hads> ibeardslee: Thanks, AndrewTD made me feel better. <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> http://www.ascent.co.nz/Category.aspx?majorcatID=46 <ibeardslee> is the picture I see there for others? <ajmitch> the ugly stretched freedos picture? <ibeardslee> ..yeah <ibeardslee> but it's a start right? <ajmitch> it's a start <ajmitch> as nice as it'd be to have ubuntu or some other functional free OS on there <snail> an agreement with Microsoft where a retailer agreed not to ship ubuntu but let them ship freedos would be illegal under NZ anti-competitive laws, right? <mwhudson> when i filter for freedos as the os though, i don't get any hits <ojwb> you have to specially order <ojwb> and it takes 2-3 weeks <ojwb> at least AIUI * ojwb wonders what a "commercial model" is #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-03 <ibeardslee> mwhudson: because they don't advertise the ones that are available with freedos <ibeardslee> they did say they were going to have a filter "also available with freedos" <ibeardslee> but they may be finding that a bit hard to manage <ibeardslee> ajmitch: it's the think I've been bugging HP/Ascent about <ibeardslee> I think HP do have a Suse option for some machines <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> ojwb: no ideal what a "commercial model" is but if someone called me one, I'd assume it was a euphemism for prostitute... <ibeardslee> commerical as different to the home <ibeardslee> commercial/business <ajmitch> one that usually ships with whatever the business versions of windows are? :) <ibeardslee> not always but that is often a good indicator <ibeardslee> another indicator can be 3 year vs 1 year warranties <ibeardslee> generally the home stuff could be using the latest and greatest parts, and the models change on a regular basis <ibeardslee> the business models are a more stable lineup that has an extended sale cycle #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-04 <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> i mean afternoon #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-05 <brokendatapoint> knock knock <Atamira> no ones home brokendatapoint :P <phonex01> i'm trying to install tor-proxy and i have this error ? W: Failed to fetch http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org/dists/maverick/Release.gpg Got a single header line over 360 chars * ajmitch wonders why people don't stick around for answers <Atamira> always in a hurry <brokendatapoint> morning <Atamira> afternoon #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-06 <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <zapzupnz> Good morning. <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <hads> Morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-07 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> ahhh. the mornings have it, 4 nil <snail> mÅrena <mwhudson> i was looking to find a bingo card generator so we could play "#ubuntu-nz morning bingo" <mwhudson> but i can't find anything decent <ajmitch> http://www.bullshitbingo.net/cards/software/ is probably appropriate for many of us <chilts> morning all <ajmitch> hm <ajmitch> http://mirror.ihug.co.nz/debian/dists/squeeze/ isn't being very nice to me :) <ibeardslee> you may need to ask them about that the squeeze-updates seems fine <ajmitch> yeah, it's the same server that's unfortunately had a few issues with ubuntu mirroring at times <ajmitch> I just wanted to vent :) <ibeardslee> most of the .nz ubuntu mirrors have had issues at times <ajmitch> yes, it's a bit frustrating when they get 2 or 3 weeks behind <mwhudson> i just have archive.ubuntu.com in my sources.list for better or worse :/ <ibeardslee> likewise * ojwb upgraded his old laptop twice last week - both times the mirror failed to serve up some files with 403 <ojwb> quick hack fix is to pull out the urls from the log, munge them to a different mirror and wget them into /var/cache/apt/archives <ojwb> then rerun the upgrade <snail> hmm, apt-spy used to be quite useful for these situations, but it doesn't appear to have made it into ubuntu from debian #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-08 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <snail> morning <snail> heh: me the weekend before last: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs778.ash1/166870_10150175320254045_818194044_8696073_335845_n.jpg <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <snail> if anyone is supporting any java stuff, you need to read http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/07/java_denial_of_service_bug/ <ajmitch> same bug that affected PHP, isn't it? <ajmitch> something that was only showing up on 32-bit systems with certain compilation flags (though usually the default) <snail> ajmitch: very similar bug yes <snail> most java applications don't parse doubles, but solr / lucene does and everyone and their dog uses them for searching ... #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-09 <ojwb> java steals code from PHP, or vice versa? <ajmitch> or they both use an underlying library <ojwb> wouldn't the java one be in java though? <ojwb> i'd imagine it's actually just the same algorithm <ojwb> and they've both made a slip implementing it <ajmitch> probably the same algorithm, the php one is implemented in C * ojwb wonders what's wrong with strtod() <ajmitch> I imagine that the jvm could have those parts in native code rather than in bytecode <ajmitch> well the php issue was in zend_strtod() :) <ojwb> hmm, I guess parsing a string to a number might be a byte code op <ojwb> the main reason to avoid strtod() is in library code where someone may have changed the locale() settings <ojwb> assuming you don't want to follow them <ojwb> ah, it's due to excess precision in x87 <ojwb> one of my pet hates already <snail> does the website in the topic of this channel fail for anyone else? <ajmitch> it should just redirect to the wiki, is it no longer? <ajmitch> I guess someone in canonical needs to fix up the DNS, they've got the domain <ajmitch> ibeardslee might have contact details in his secret leadership kit? <ibeardslee> .. I have a secret leadership kit? <ajmitch> I figured that you must have :) <ajmitch> I think emailing amy08@example.org to put a ticket in might be the best option <mwhudson> noris.net ? <ajmitch> yes it looks like an isp or similar <mwhudson> strange <ajmitch> it's certainly not the only loco team domain registered there <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> ooh..netsplits..dont ya just love those <snail> morning <ibeardslee> Atamira: netsplits > pants split <Atamira> lol <Atamira> true <snail> netsplits have a certain nostalgia value, I find. <thumper> morning <mwhudson_> morning <mwhudson_> anyone on vodafone with a nokia handset? * ibeardslee had a 'non-smart' nokia on vodafone before he got his iPhone * Atamira also has an older version before it was released in nz iphone <mwhudson_> i took a photo on the phone <mwhudson_> and i've lost the mms settings somewhere <mwhudson_> and the laptop i have here doesn't have bluetooth <mwhudson_> and i don't know where my micro-> full size sd card adapter is * mwhudson_ feels vaguely victimized by technology <ibeardslee> ahhh <mwhudson_> it's not important, just a bit frustrating -- this should be trivial by now surely? <mwhudson_> oh well <ibeardslee> what phone model? <mwhudson_> e63 <ibeardslee> MMS server address http://pxt.vodafone.net.nz/pxtsend <thumper> mwhudson_: well my nexus one that I got at the end of last year is falling foul of the hardware problem of the on button <mwhudson_> thumper: :( <mwhudson_> is it not being repaired under warranty? <thumper> it will be, but 15 working days ways to go to auckland <ibeardslee> ouch <mwhudson_> speedy1 <mwhudson_> ! <thumper> vodafone aren't selling the nexus one any more <thumper> a google finds that this is a known problem, and in the US HTC have been replacing handsets <thumper> so not sure what is going to happen with this <ibeardslee> tell them you'll have a nexus s while you wait for the repair? <thumper> I did suggest that they could replace it for a nexus S <thumper> but they don't have any at all AFAIK * ibeardslee is not sure of the nexus s <ibeardslee> the galaxy s seems better <ibeardslee> the nexus has the flash for the camera, the NFC and the latest android <ibeardslee> but has no memory expansion and a shorter (manufacturer spec) battery life <ibeardslee> if you consider the manufacturer is the same <thumper> really no memory expansion? <thumper> I find that surprising <ibeardslee> so did I <ibeardslee> http://www.t3.com/feature/google-nexus-s-vs-samsung-galaxy-s <ibeardslee> the flash would be handy <ibeardslee> the NFC isn't used in NZ yet .. although I saw a link to an android app that could start using it for some things .. dunno if it'd fit in NZ <ibeardslee> Gingerbread would be a 'nice to have' <ibeardslee> but the lack of expansion .. that has me balking at the nexus s <ibeardslee> although my iphone has 16GB .. so maybe not so much of an issue <ibeardslee> .. sigh <ibeardslee> speaking of samsung .. https://www.firstin.co.nz/products/samsung-galaxy-p1000-3g-tablet-4422/ <thumper> heh: â¢ Smaller form factor than the iPad making it infinitely more portable <thumper> infinitely... <hads> ibeardslee: Gingerbread introduces native SIP support, that's the big one. <hads> thumper: What is the problem with the Nexus? <ojwb> mmm ... gingerbread <snail> I love going to $remote_office with coworker only to find that with no techies in the building everything at $home_office blew up while we were on the bus and now nothing works... <snail> I'm also appalled by the level of reliability that librarians seem to accept as par for the course #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-10 <thumper> hads: the power button has intermittantly stopped working <thumper> hads: I've just sent it off <thumper> hads: it seems to be a common hardware fault <hads> Interesting. I've not had trouble with mine. <hads> Occasionally the screen won't respond to touches when it's locked so you can't unlock it and have to remove the battery to reboot. <thumper> hads: I've not had that problem <thumper> hads: I have had the screen not be accurate, but making it "sleep" and waking it again seems to fix that <hads> Haven't had that one <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <ojwb> morning <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <hads> morninG <ibeardslee> ohhh with a capital G <hads> Fancy huh <ajmitch> quite #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-11 <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-13 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning * chilts went to CloudCamp on Friday <ibeardslee> good? <chilts> I'm over unconferences - they don't work :) <chilts> it was semi-interesting <ibeardslee> .. I'll take that as a 'no' <chilts> heh <chilts> it's just an excuse for the organisers to not do any work <ibeardslee> did you get anything out of it? <ibeardslee> did you get anything *useful* out of it? <chilts> I found out that there are very few providers of VPS servers within NZ <chilts> I think I know of only a handful and even then it's hard to figure out <chilts> RimuHosting I knew of ages ago, but I find them expensive * ibeardslee uses them * ajmitch has considered using them <ajmitch> currently using dedicated servers at webdrive <chilts> WOW, VPS servers at WebDrive start at $299/mth - that's rediculous <chilts> _everything_ in NZ is expensive <mwhudson> ! <mwhudson> morning * chilts clarifies <chilts> all VPS hosting in NZ is expensive <chilts> and 256MB memory VPSs are not under consideration :) <ajmitch> isn't NZ fun? <chilts> yup, I love it here :) <chilts> that's the best thing <ajmitch> I don't know if we'd have the demand here for someone to sell low-cost VPSes <ajmitch> I'm happy with linode for personal use, but we want something in ZN for work <ajmitch> s/ZN/NZ/ :) <hads> chilts: Sitehost <hads> Nice guys, great support, decent pricing (for NZ), unmetered peered traffic <ajmitch> from $30 a month, that's a bit more reasonable <hads> I've had a server there for a couple of years. <hads> I use Linode for personal stuff too. Had a server in AU but canned it as it was old and expensive. <ibeardslee> my rimuhosting vps is $40.37 a month <ibeardslee> they've been fairly onto it with issues <mwhudson> if only you could buy vps hosting on trademe * mwhudson is having that retail vs trademe price shock again <mwhudson> DSE 3m hdmi cable: $99; trademe: $13 ($18 with postage) <chilts> yeah, Dickies have always screwed you with HDMI cables (as do most retailers) <chilts> not sure why - still relatively new I suppose * chilts looks at Sitehost <mwhudson> it seems to be the case for any small scale electronics items though really <chilts> at some stage, I'm hoping the company can afford dedicated servers, which will be quite nice (esp. local servers) <chilts> then it'll be SPEEEEEDY!!! <chilts> not that it isn't already <hads> Trademe needs to loose it's market dominance, their fees are extortionate. <ibeardslee> a while back I was reading something somewhere about how e-bay reckon NZ is about the only country where they too much compitition from a local <Atamira> afternoon #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-14 <ojwb> i think retailers for TVs and other consumer stuff have low margins on the equipment, so try to make money on cables and accessories <ojwb> they seem to try to push surge protectors which are insanely expensive <hads> That's correct. <ojwb> and extended warranties <ojwb> cloudcamp was good in parts I thought <ojwb> not sure having everyone in the same discussion for the whole time was the right choice though <ojwb> and the general assumption that everyone should be using the cloud for everything seemed a bit odd <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <ojwb> morning <Atamira> afternoon <hads> Afternoon <Atamira> its not easy going back into nornal sleep patterns when you've been on midnight shifts for a year <ibeardslee> are you on day shifts now? <Atamira> no, holiday till next week <Atamira> and im flying to chch on thurs morning <Atamira> might have to stay up all night <hads> Hmm. Updating an Intrepid box. <ibeardslee> that's a multi-hop to get it up to date isn't it? <ibeardslee> that also reminds me I need to do a karmic -> lucid upgrade on my vps <hads> Yeah, Intrepid -> Jaunty -> Karmic -> Lucid and maybe stop there. <ibeardslee> last time it went boom and had to restore #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-15 <snail> ibeardslee: there used to be some package that recommended three restarts between upgrades <snail> ibeardslee: i think it was a grub upgrade? <ojwb> what i tell you three times must be true? <ibeardslee> I think the grub -> grub2/grubpc recommends something like that before actually removing grub <hads> Hmm. I am running do-release-upgrade in screen. I disconnected from my screen and it appears screen has been uninstalled. <hads> I can't re-install it since dpkg is already running. That's quite amusing. <mwhudson> :) <ajmitch> that's very irritating :) <mwhudson> hope it's not trying to ask you a question <hads> I guess I'll wait a while and see if it's unlocked when it finishes. <hads> Oh yes, questions. Bummer. <ajmitch> there shouldn't be any reason why screen would get uninstalled <mwhudson> i guess you can man-handle the deb to get the binary out and run that? <hads> Yeah, that's what I was thinking if worst comes to worst. <hads> ajmitch: Yeah, odd. <ajmitch> dpkg-deb should allow you to get the files out, if you're desperate <ojwb> hads: download the .deb by hand and unpack it? <ojwb> or ar and tar... <ajmitch> or just wait & see if it finishes the upgrade :) <ojwb> hmm, I wonder if you can run screen from under /proc <ojwb> since it's presumably still running <ajmitch> using the open fd? <ojwb> or something like that <hads> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 2011-02-15 14:37 /proc/7744/exe -> /usr/bin/screen.real (deleted) <ojwb> /proc/<PID>/exe is a symlink, so that's no help <ojwb> yeah <ajmitch> the fd allows you to get the file contents <ojwb> indeed <ojwb> you may need to copy it rather than executing from the fd <ajmitch> maybe not useful for screen, but useful for other deleted files <ojwb> yes, I've salvaged files that way before <ajmitch> I'd probably use the screen binary from the .deb rather than doing it that way <hads> Hey, it's installed again. <ajmitch> good <hads> That's useful. <hads> Wonder what happened there. <ajmitch> then all our speculation for how to unbreak it is unnecssary :) <hads> I thought the package was upgraded rather than removed for some minutes and then replaced. <ajmitch> I can't remember what order it's done in, files are unpacked as a different name (eg screen.dpkg-new) & then renamed in place <hads> Ah okay. <hads> I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that it's actually screen.real too. <ajmitch> could be, alternatives can make things a bit screwy <ajmitch> or wrapper scripts like that <hads> Oh well all better now, that would have been an interesting twist to the upgrade. <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> not as bad as sshd getting killed mid-upgrade <hads> heh <mwhudson> my machine spontaneously rebooted while most of the new packages weren't configured once :/ <ajmitch> yeah, that can leave things in a bad state <Atamira> ive been through that too <Atamira> annoying <ajmitch> times like that you want to be able to use filesystem snapshotting <mwhudson> luckily there was enough configured to boot to a console <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> morning <mwhudson> morning <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <Atamira> mornin #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-16 <Atamira> anyone hooked up a microsoft exchange to evolution or thunderbird? <ojwb> i used to grab my mail from exchange at a place I was working at <ojwb> I think I was lucky and the IMAP port just worked <ojwb> this was nearly a decade ago too, so things have probably changed <Atamira> thanks ojwb <Atamira> we've worked out that its not going to work <Atamira> not on this machine neway <karora> Atamira: There is a cool little project called DAVMail too. <Atamira> does it link to outlook? <karora> It provides an interface to Exchange which you can use for IMAP, CalDAV, ... protocols. <karora> Sort of for a one-person server. * karora has never used it, since I don't have access to an Exchange server and am unlikely to :-) <ajmitch> I think there's an evolution mapi connector now, not sure how stable or useful it is <ajmitch> it's in the evolution-mapi package if you want to try it out <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> awww..im going to miss the mornings in here over the next week <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <mwhudson> morning <hads> Morning <ibeardslee> morning <ojwb> morning <chilts> morning (just) <hads> Yay, 4 more hours then it's long weekend time. <ajmitch> lucky for some :) <hads> Annual trip, only taken the whole week to arrange work around it. <ibeardslee> meh long weekends .. just means more has to be stuffed into shorter weeks <hads> Exactly #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-17 <kiwidood> Hey can anyone here access bshellz.net without getting timeout's? <zapzupnz> Yes. <kiwidood> You can access it? <zapzupnz> Yup <zapzupnz> This is it, yeah? ---> http://grab.by/909i <kiwidood> Wtf <kiwidood> I've been IP blocked o.O <kiwidood> Are you with slingshot by chance? <zapzupnz> Nah, telescum. * ojwb boggles at ubuntu-sso-login with a process size of 226MB <ojwb> and that uninstalling it removes software-center <ojwb> still, that can go - i've always found the US spelling distasteful <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> ojwb: sometimes you just have to make that stand <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> i should amend that to be <Atamira> morning from chch <Atamira> wow. borders bookshop has crashed <lifeless> aren't they bankrupt ? <lifeless> http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/borders-files-for-bankruptcy-closing-30-of-stores/19846131/ <Atamira> i only saw the local news article <Atamira> whitcoulls is having problems too <mwhudson> well given that borders in new zealand is owned by the same people as whitcoulls... <chilts> morning <karora> morning! #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-18 <ojwb> kind of off-topic, but i've been asked if I know anyone interested in about 10 hours a week doing PC and printer support at wellington airport <ojwb> feel free to PM me and I can put you in touch <ibeardslee> the airport doesn't have their own? <ojwb> i think it's for an airline, but I don't know any details <ojwb> it's just some sideline of the people i'm working for currently <ibeardslee> ahh <Atamira> pity i didnt live in wellington <zapzupnz> Heh, yeah. If only it were Napier Airport, different story. :P <Atamira> or even chch airport <Atamira> since im here now <ojwb> if only there was some fast way to get from one airport to another <Atamira> lol <G> ojwb: you mean a ministrial motorcade? <zapzupnz> Driving around the place in expensive BMWs, doing not much useful stuff at all <zapzupnz> I'm already doing half of that <zapzupnz> The other half should be a doddle <Atamira> mornin #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-20 <ojwb> anyone run mythtv/mythbuntu? if so, what do you use to get listings info for more than just what's on right now? <ojwb> even the what's on right now doesn't seem to work for all channels for me <ojwb> with DVB-T currently, if that makes a difference <ojwb> though I have a DVB-S card to set up too <cloudy_nz> hi zapzupnz <zapzupnz> hello <cloudy_nz> how's life? <zapzupnz> Whimsical. Next week, back to uni. It'll finally be serious, again. <zapzupnz> You? <cloudy_nz> trying to motivate myself to learn more jQuery, lol <cloudy_nz> ah which uni do you go to? I went to Auckland <zapzupnz> Well, I don't go to uni - I go to EIT. <zapzupnz> I just call it uni because it's quicker to type than polytech. Plus, I've become accustomed to having to say that when people overseas look at me with a quizzical look as I say it. <cloudy_nz> lol <cloudy_nz> I went to a polytech too <cloudy_nz> it was called AIT, then it became AUT <zapzupnz> AUT has the advantage that it didn't extinguish the polytech aspect of it <cloudy_nz> heh heh, yeah it's all a bit stupid <cloudy_nz> polytech teaches you more practical stuff, while uni teaches more theoretical stuff <zapzupnz> Indeed. <zapzupnz> Polytechs are there to get you in to a job, essentially. <cloudy_nz> hmm yeah <zapzupnz> As for me, I'm not so fussed - I don't find I'm learning much - just want the certification, really. <cloudy_nz> I kind of wish polytech courses taught you a few things more in depth, rather than a lot of practical stuff only on the surface <zapzupnz> True <cloudy_nz> lol what are you studying? <zapzupnz> Bachelor of Computer Systems - covering programming, mostly, and system analysis <cloudy_nz> cool! <cloudy_nz> there aren't enough developers in NZ <zapzupnz> That's for sure <cloudy_nz> I got my programming job 2 weeks after graduating! <zapzupnz> It's disappointing to see how many shift to Australia, the UK, or the US <cloudy_nz> there's more money over there, lol <karora> A lot shift here too. <zapzupnz> Money, sure. If that's what your interest is. <cloudy_nz> are you going to get into .NET or Java? <karora> How many people in this channel were not born in NZ, do you think? <zapzupnz> I think we have it made, here. <zapzupnz> Well, we learned with .NET and Java - but I don't intend to stick to them in my immediate career. <cloudy_nz> oh, whatcha going to focus on? <zapzupnz> karora: not a clue, not a care. As long as they're here. <cloudy_nz> I am a python/php programmer <zapzupnz> I'm not sure. <cloudy_nz> lol <karora> zapzupnz: Where are you studying? <zapzupnz> karora: EIT Taradale <cloudy_nz> they are crying out for .NET developers in Auckland <cloudy_nz> Java is much harder to get a job in * karora is currently doing Android dev in Java. <karora> There's still plenty of Java jobs. <cloudy_nz> ...unless it's Android Java, lol <zapzupnz> Android and servers still have demand. But that's not me. <cloudy_nz> people at my work don't like Java, they say it leads to large, difficult projects that never get finished <karora> Scripting languages are better, so long as the environment isn't constrained. <cloudy_nz> mobile apps might be better <zapzupnz> Mobile app projects get as big as any other <karora> Anything at all can lead to large, difficult projects that never get finished. <cloudy_nz> not in python! (yay) <karora> It's more likely to be a consequence of who the development is being done for than what language it is done in. <karora> Yes, even in python. <zapzupnz> Anything is susceptible to it - bad planning <karora> INCIS in python would still have failed. <cloudy_nz> well actually I saw a project using python and the YUI...that was not pretty, lol <zapzupnz> That's why you get these developers who don't plan, don't comment their code, don't visualise workflows, don't record issues and fixes â¦ you feel like strangling them <cloudy_nz> back in 5 <cloudy_nz> yeah lack of documentation is probably the worst thing I've faced <zapzupnz> Better to have too much than not enough <zapzupnz> For at least the excess can be thrown away :P <cloudy_nz> definitely <zapzupnz> But you can't magic extra documentation out of thin air <cloudy_nz> yeah, a good compiler or intrepreter totally ignores & excludes comments <zapzupnz> Such is the point of comments :P <cloudy_nz> I mean, use heaps of comments, because it won't cause any problems <zapzupnz> Yup <cloudy_nz> so where you going to live when you graduate, zapzupnz ? <zapzupnz> I'm going to stay where I am, for a while, in Napier. <cloudy_nz> ah ok <zapzupnz> Perhaps eventually I'll move to Wellington. Who knows? <cloudy_nz> I hear it's difficult to find a job there unless you know people <cloudy_nz> Wellington rocks! They have a dynamic Python UG there <zapzupnz> If I cared about Python, I'd probably go. <cloudy_nz> the pycon is there in August <zapzupnz> lol <zapzupnz> In fact, I'd go anyway. <zapzupnz> Never hurts to learn about what's what, does it? <cloudy_nz> my cousin & his wife tried to find a job in Napier, but he could only get one in forestry he didn't like <cloudy_nz> yeah, I did 3 C# exams, and that hurt a lot! <zapzupnz> Luckily in the last year of the degree I'm doing, you get to do work ex - and normally it's in Wellington. <zapzupnz> But then, it depends on the expertise. <zapzupnz> I don't want to go to Auckland - I don't know it, and don't care to learn it. <cloudy_nz> yeah don't come here, lol <cloudy_nz> go to Welly, where everything is cool <zapzupnz> Cool is right. Bloody freezing. But at least I have friends there. <cloudy_nz> they have trendy artist & poet types, and people don't just care about money <cloudy_nz> all anyone cares about in Auckland is money & property <zapzupnz> Gosh, sounds like Auckland would be the better place. o.o <cloudy_nz> from what I hear, Welly pays better too <cloudy_nz> all the government offices are down there, paying contractors big $$$ <zapzupnz> Bleh, boring stuff. <zapzupnz> It sucks that the best paying stuff is boring. <cloudy_nz> yeah, .NET & Oracle is boring <cloudy_nz> but who cares when you earn $80 an hour? hehe <zapzupnz> That's money talking. :P <zapzupnz> Provided I can pay the bills, I don't care about the money - just so long as what I does makes me happy <zapzupnz> And boring != happy <zapzupnz> Boring == boring <cloudy_nz> when you have a family to support, money becomes a whole lot more important <cloudy_nz> lol <zapzupnz> I doubt that'll happen <cloudy_nz> yeah, I suppose I could have looked for a better paying C# job rather than python <cloudy_nz> but OSS is so much more interesting <cloudy_nz> guess I have the same attitude, hehe <zapzupnz> :D <zapzupnz> As long as there's a roof on your head and food on the table and bills paid, all is well. <3 <zapzupnz> And besides <zapzupnz> Who'd not want to be doing what they REALLY love as their job? :P <cloudy_nz> yeah that's true <cloudy_nz> I've seen some unhappy Microsoft developers, hehe <zapzupnz> hehe, yup * cloudy_nz goes to eat pizza for dinner <zapzupnz> nom nom <ojwb> who says you need to live anywhere near the people you work for? <ojwb> live in NZ, get paid at the rate in a different country... <ibeardslee> morning <snail1> ibeardslee: sorry i didn't notice you on the bus, i wasn't really awake <ibeardslee> yeah that's ok .. I figured that was the case <ibeardslee> just as well you were further back .. you cuoldn't see the tears of rejection ;) <ajmitch> morning <snail1> if i'm not awake enough to notice you, I can't imagine my conversation is scintillating at that time of the morning anyway... <thumper> morning <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <karora> morning :-) <mwhudson> sneaky <G> anyone here had trouble getting those Advanced Electricity Meters installed? #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-21 <ojwb> hads: I'm trying to get your tv_grab_nz-py script to work with mythtv, but not having much success - are there some setup instructions somewhere? <hads> ojwb: I haven't configured it lately but last time I did mythtv-setup should run the grabber at the command line from which it was started so you need to switch back to that terminal and see if there is any output. <hads> It runs --configure and creates a config file in ~/.mythtv/$VIDEO_SOURCE.xmltv with lines for each wanted channel like so; channel=tv3.freeviewnz.tv <hads> All discussions that I'm aware of have taken place on the mythtvnz mailing list, there should be a few howtos in the archives there. <hads> Happy to help here or there or where ever. <ojwb> hads: thanks <ojwb> i have since asking found a howto from you in the archives there, but not having much luck <ojwb> starting again from scratch currently, as I'd managed to get some channels in twice by retuning <ojwb> hads: hmm, I found I'd managed to get channel!tv3.freeviewnz.tv etc, and changed the ! to = with sed <ojwb> now mythfilldatabase finds plenty of shows, but they don't show in the guide <ojwb> is that cached or something? <hads> Shouldn't be. <hads> Do you do SQL much? <ojwb> as little as I can <hads> Fair enough. <ojwb> it's not totally alien to me though <hads> Do you have mythweb installed? <ojwb> no <ojwb> let me restart the frontend just in case <hads> mythweb is convenient, it has settings screens including a channel list where you can see the xmltvids and channel numbers etc. <hads> You can do the same with SQL but mythweb is more convenient. <hads> You will need to assign channel numbers if you haven't already. <hads> In case you hadn't noticed mythtv isn't that much fun to set up. <ojwb> that much is starting to become clear <ojwb> I seem to have two versions of most channels now <ojwb> I assume one is the one I can watch and the other has listings * ojwb installs mythweb <ojwb> oh, i already have it * cloudy_nz is lazy & bought a Samsung TV with freeview & a media player <hads> They are nice but not quite the same featureset. <hads> ojwb: /mythweb/settings/tv/channels is the path you want <ojwb> ooh ta <ojwb> yes, i have two versions of most <hads> Are you running a DVB card? <ojwb> one lot with xmltvid and no channum <ojwb> the other with the other <ojwb> it's a DVB-T usb stick <ojwb> I have a DVB-S card, but I haven't tried that yet <hads> And if so you would have done a channel scan etc. <ojwb> yes <ojwb> and I have watching and recording working <ojwb> but no episode guide <hads> Then you want to copy the xmltvid to the ones with channel numbers <ojwb> except for the now and next on some channels <ojwb> yeah <ojwb> mad that it did this though <hads> It's a little bit skewed towards US users who use schedules direct <hads> XMLTV stuff doesn't quite work as smoothly <ojwb> what's callsign? <ojwb> should I copy that over? <hads> Another US thing, just make it the same as the name <ojwb> indeed - it seems the same as name for the real entries <hads> Once you copy the xmltvids over and run mythfilldatabase you should be good to go. <hads> Though if you have now/next data you might need to change another setting <hads> Uncheck "useonairguide" <ojwb> i disable that when I configured your script <ojwb> disabled <hads> Cool <ojwb> ok, that looks saner <hads> What happened was, mythfilldatabase will add a new channel for any new xmltv it finds in the data. <hads> *xmltvid <ojwb> oh, and because there were none for the existing channels, it just created new ones <hads> Yeah <ojwb> well, mythfilldatabase found 1293 first showings <ojwb> i don't seem to have listings yet <hads> Which is the reason the config file has the ! lines - so you can exclude a channel and it won't get automatically added all the time. <hads> Hmm, you should now I think. <ojwb> it seems to just have "NO DATA" everywhere in /mythweb/tv/list <ojwb> hads: can i easily see the data mythfilldatabase put there? <ojwb> i guess it's in mysql? <hads> Can you paste the mythfilldatabase output? <hads> Yes it is in SQL, one second. <hads> `mysql -u root mythconverg` assuming a root password isn't set <hads> then `SELECT COUNT(*) FROM program;` <ojwb> http://paste.debian.net/108357/ is the output <hads> 2011-02-21 21:17:56.439 No programs found in data. <hads> It didn't insert anything. If you run with `mythfilldatabase -v most` it should give you some more info <hads> I would say that those 1293 entries are from the useonairguide stuff that was there before. <hads> First thought for the reason it's not finding any data is that it's using the wrong config file. <ojwb> hmm, failing to work out how to tell mysql the password <hads> -p <ojwb> gah, the config file is all ! again <hads> Don't worry about mysql at the moment, we know you're not getting data. <ojwb> aha, -v most now scrolls loads of tv shows <ojwb> hurrah <hads> Wonder what overwrote your config. <ojwb> and i have listings in mythweb <hads> Neat <ojwb> cool, many thanks <ojwb> it's should be significantly more useful now <hads> No worries, have fun. <hads> Certainly will be <ojwb> this really shouldn't be so hard to set up <ojwb> not sure what can easily be done though <ojwb> i guess nz is a small "market" <hads> The dev community is a bit hostile, I have up contributing a while back. <hads> Still do NZ stuff with listing etc. but don't contribute to mythtv itself. <ojwb> the listings are certainly really useful <ojwb> i spent a while finding dead source <ojwb> +s <ojwb> or ones sky had taken down with legal threats <hads> Yeah, been there :) <ojwb> which were written in C# <ojwb> how come they leave you alone? <hads> I was running a site that got a C&D from Sky <hads> and took it down <ojwb> i guess they want to flog their pvrs, so don't appreciate the competition <ojwb> hmm, so either mythtv uses alsa (the default) i can't turn the volume up to be all the loud, or else I tell it to use pulseaudio and can turn the master volume above 100%, but then audio and video aren't in sync <ojwb> I thought we'd got beyond that years ago <ibeardslee> morning <snail> ibeardslee: morning <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> hads: that farmbot is awesome <snail> farmbot? <ibeardslee> http://bit.ly/h4FpK3 <hads> Yeah I thought that was neat <hads> Morning <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> after seeing my brother-in-law with his xmas pressie (radio controlled helicopter), I thought .. that'd be an interesting android project <ibeardslee> arduino <ibeardslee> gah <ibeardslee> sigh .. can I go home now? <hads> Sure <ibeardslee> although using android as the base controller talking to an arduino controller over wireless (of some sort) <hads> ibeardslee: http://aeroquad.com/ <ajmitch> ibeardslee: more coffee? <ibeardslee> hads: sigh .. someone always does my ideas before I do <ibeardslee> I remember an idea I had for horseless carriages <mwhudson> and packing a few billion transistors into a little space? <ajmitch> that's just absurd <ajmitch> noone could make them that small <snail> the thing with that farmbot is that as a biologist, it's not even close to as elegant as the hundreds of ways seed is already dispersed, far easier to GE the plant than have a completely different toolchain <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-02-22 * ajmitch wonders how much of christchurch got flattened in that one <hads> Yeah, felt that well here. <ajmitch> felt it in dunedin, so it was fairly strong <Atamira> they had another quake? <Atamira> and afternoon <ojwb> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums/ <ojwb> big smear at the RHS! <Atamira> dammit <Atamira> day after i leave chch too <hads> Sounds pretty big <hads> 6.3 just appeared on geonet <hads> 10km SE of CHC <ojwb> they often adjust the magnitude a bit from the initial though <Atamira> my friend in chc says hes used to them now <Atamira> doesnt even notice if theres a quake <Atamira> none of them i met the weekend did <ajmitch> I think they would have noticed this one <Atamira> ill ask them later <Atamira> oh scratch that <Atamira> ill txt him <hads> There's phone/elec/water broken in places. <ojwb> hmm, it's quite shallow too <ajmitch> not bad enough to cut internet connectivity through to the south <hads> Yeah, some CHC people in other channel have gone away but I presume that's localised. <ojwb> hmm, it seems to be practically on a highway through a tunnel <ojwb> SH74 <ajmitch> the lyttleton tunnel? that could be messy <ojwb> yes, that's probably the one <ojwb> http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=http:%2F%2Fmagma.geonet.org.nz%2Fservices%2Fquake%2Fkml%2F2.2%2Fsearch%3FexternalRef%3D3468575&ie=UTF8&ll=-43.596725,172.714477&spn=0.00965,0.016673&t=h&z=16 <hads> That tunnel is pretty sturdy. <ojwb> well, that's good <ojwb> i was thinking they wouldn't have really factored big earthquakes into the design in that area <hads> I had a tour through that tunnel a few years back, was very interesting. <ojwb> seems stuff.co.nz and nzherald.co.nz aren't happy <ojwb> i wonder if that's load from everyone going to read them <ajmitch> probably a few too many people visiting those sites <ajmitch> geonet probably got another big load spike, too <ojwb> seems more likely than having colocated in chch <ojwb> yeah, but they're built for that <ajmitch> pretty sure stuff.co.nz is in wellington <hads> TV3 news has interesting footage at the moment <chilts> yep, in Welly, and Auckland too * chilts used to work on Stuff <hads> Catalyst isn't it? <chilts> yep <ojwb> http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1298336332/489/4688489.jpg <ojwb> cathedral spire is toast <ajmitch> the building isn't quite as destroyed as twitter rumours say <ibeardslee> it'll be a mission to get it back as it was <ajmitch> yeah <ojwb> john key is going to try to fly down to see what it is like on the ground <ojwb> I can save him the flight - it's covered in rubble <ajmitch> but he has to be there to show his solidarity with the people, it's election year after all <ibeardslee> kewl .. pity the RSA had already had rocks land on it .. could have tried to co-ordinate that a bit better <ojwb> hmm, stuff could do with some copy editing <ojwb> repeated text and "The earthquake happened at a shallow depth of five to six metres below ground." <ibeardslee> yeah <ibeardslee> Police are saying multiple fatalities have been reported at several locations in the central city <ojwb> having watched the tv footage, I'd be amazed if nobody had been killed this time <ibeardslee> http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/27193.html <ojwb> though one guy was talking about having helped some people out and failed to help a guy buried up to his waist in rubble, then they panned the camera and the building was just a heap of debris <ojwb> so it's amazing what you can get out of uninjured <ojwb> hmm, the police say that chch hospital is not evacuated <ojwb> the news repeatedly said it had been <ojwb> not totally helpful <Atamira> i dont know whethere to be happy or sad <Atamira> that happened 1 1/2hrs after i left chch <ibeardslee> that was lucky <ibeardslee> our people down there are ok <ojwb> Atamira: I'd go for happy <Atamira> true <Atamira> ive never been in an earthquake <ajmitch> Atamira: well you wouldn't have been leaving any time soon <ojwb> if you get the choice, happy is better <Atamira> but it would have been a valid excuse to not have to go to work <ajmitch> imagine if you'd been stuck in the city for a few days because of it? <ajmitch> & there goes another one that we could feel in dunedin.... <wgrant> That's not good. <chilts> ajmitch: you just felt another just then? <chilts> :( <ibeardslee> All NZ airspace shut down - central air traffic control in Christchurch hit by massive earthquake <ibeardslee> not much flying going on <ajmitch> chilts: yep <chilts> geonet: 6.3, 4.5, 4.4, 4.0 ... and still your one to come <Atamira> my friend lives close to the centre of the city <Atamira> but not in the city <Atamira> so i wouldntve been near it <Atamira> i was in the square last thurs tho. <Atamira> shame about the cathedral <Atamira> if they dont fix any of the other old buildings <Atamira> i hope they fix that one <Atamira> its an icon to the city <ojwb> my geophysicist gf is wondering if there could be an aftershock off shore <ojwb> some of them are pretty close to the sea <chilts> anyone know where http://ubuntu-nz.org and can anyone get it? <chilts> I know this isn't important at the moment, but am just wondering <ajmitch> chilts: it just points to the wiki <ajmitch> or at least it should <chilts> ok <chilts> I never saw it in the title until just now :) <ibeardslee> someone was talking about following that up .. who was that? <ajmitch> uh, I think I said that we should, but it was never clear who'd do it :) <ibeardslee> ahhh <ojwb> seems to be owned by canonical <ojwb> the domain I mean <ajmitch> yeah, I can probably find the right people to talk to about it <chilts> ajmitch: that one you felt at 2:50 was a 5.5 and another shallow one (5km), centered on Lyttleton again <chilts> Lyttelton <ojwb> the one ajmitch felt just now was 5.5 <ojwb> snap! <chilts> :) <chilts> the GeoNet recent quakes page is mostly Chch <ajmitch> so all these are just a practice run for a big one in wellignton :) <chilts> it's on the BBC now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12533291 <ojwb> hmm, that one was in a harbour <ajmitch> ojwb: is that significant? <ojwb> well, being offshore makes a tsunami more likely <ojwb> which wouldn't be good <ojwb> then they'd just need the banks peninsula to become an active volcano... <ojwb> http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/earthquake-send-kiwi-dollar-plunging-db-86655 <ojwb> apparently 0.88 cents is a plunge <mcgillicutty> earthquake?? <ibeardslee> in Christchurch <ajmitch> yeah, a little bit of a shake <mcgillicutty> just saw it on the news. Earthquakes seem to be becoming more and more common <Hoggs> This one seems to have done far more damage than the last <ibeardslee> yes .. deaths have been reported <ibeardslee> more buildings collapsed <Hoggs> Right at lunch time.. worst time it could have happened <snail> did a recent update break cups for anyone else? <hads> snail: Yes <hads> cups backend failed or somesuch <snail> did a restart ressurect things, or was more poking needed? <hads> Nope, still broken <hads> /usr/lib/cups/backend/hp failed <ojwb> the canterbury ring laser is down - we're open to alien attack! http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums/ <hads> heh <ojwb> hmm, I hope the weather is better in Christchurch than Wellington <lifeless> raining <ojwb> that's not going to make life much fun for anyone having to camp out the night <lifeless> indeed <karora> lifeless: Are you in Chch? <lifeless> rangiora <karora> Ah, OK. <karora> Any DDs in Chch itself? * karora has been fielding the traditional "Are you OK?" e-mails from folk in Europe & the US... <lifeless> dunno <ajmitch> morning <Bacta> Sup <Atamira> mornin <Bacta> Hi Atamira, how's things? <Atamira> good thanks <Bacta> Have any family in Christchurch? <Atamira> and you? <Bacta> I'm okayish <Atamira> yes, and family is fine <Atamira> so are friends <Bacta> That's good <Bacta> Mine are too apparently, was a bitch getting in contact with them though <Bacta> Was worried about one family member because she was working in a building that was red stickered after the Sept earthquake <Atamira> yeah. we've been watching the news all night <Atamira> its affecting work as well <Atamira> communications in chch is restricted use. <Bacta> You live there? <Atamira> no, but i was on holiday there over the weekend for 5 days <Atamira> flew back to akld monday <Bacta> I was there on Saturday and Sunday <Atamira> i was there from thurs to monday <Atamira> my friends down there are ok <Atamira> as are my family <Bacta> Wow, dodged a bullet <Atamira> it wouldnt have been that bad for me <Bacta> I'm sorry but why the hell are tomaw, ikonia and elky in here? They're not Kiwis <Atamira> i wasnt in the town centre. already did that friday <Bacta> Ah yep? <ikonia> my sinceer best wishesto you all in .nz, be very careful out there <Bacta> *sincere *wishes to <Bacta> You're supposed to be English <ikonia> yes, <Atamira> ty ikonia <ikonia> Bacta "too" not to * Bacta headdesk <ikonia> Bacta: so don't get smart with me <Bacta> I hope you're joking <ikonia> no <ajmitch> people, please just shut up & behave, we don't need the aggro here <ikonia> how bad is the damage at the moment ? <Atamira> pretty bad <ajmitch> bad enough, judging from the photos I've seen <Atamira> communications is down, power is out. water has to be boiled <ikonia> the news in Europe is a bit bland due to the A/P political news being headlines <ikonia> Atamira: ok, so pretty much the back to raw basics <Bacta> Look for a NZ source perhaps? <ikonia> Bacta: europe isn't keen on broadcasting NZ sources, it tends to pickup the mail networks and just highlight coverage from NZ rather than play it properly <Bacta> The mayor is on TV again <ikonia> the riots in the middle east are taking headlines away from this <Atamira> ikonia, yeah. <ikonia> Atamira: what's the aid situation like, it looks a little lacking from here <Atamira> so far, no idea <Atamira> right now they are just concentrating on getting ppl out of collapsed buildings <Atamira> the army went in last night to help as well <ikonia> is there any official news death toll at the moment, the european numbers seem a little scaled back <Atamira> officially, we have confirmed 35 deaths. <Atamira> but the full tally is still in the estimates <ajmitch> unofficially, it's looking a lot higher than that <ikonia> that's actually better than we are getting reported <ajmitch> 2-300? <Atamira> true <Atamira> cause so many are unaccountable <Atamira> we can only hope for the best <ikonia> Atamira: 200 is the european current predication <ikonia> to be honest if it's only 200 I think you will have done "well" due to the size of the devistation, not that it is acceptable to lose any life <ikonia> it just looks like there should be more <ajmitch> looks like my ISP's network is congested again <Atamira> so far, we've been
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