#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-01 <scott-upstairs> downloading the new beta ISO image for testing...with the updated gnome-network-admin for moderating network connections :) <scott-upstairs> i really should send a "thank you" email to chris coulson if it works ;) <ckontros> Really? Why hasn't someone else tried to give Chris (on the list) a clue besides me? <scott-work> hmmm? new email? <ckontros> scott-work: From this morning. <ckontros> Really? "Hire someone" He's just being defensive. <ckontros> scott-work: I'd appreciate if you stepped up a bit here. I kinda feel like I'm twisting in the wind. <ckontros> scott-work: People have to know that examples of their work in a necessity. We can't just accept whatever anyone brings to the table. Even Louie needs to. <ckontros> Well, I shouldn't say "we". It should be "you". In any event, things shouldn't take a step backwards. <scott-work> i agree with not stepping backwards and saying something to chris, when i get home tonight i will send an email <scott-work> ckontros: ^ <scott-work> ckontros: damn, i only saw his last email and didn't read the one before it...i clearly understand why you are upset <ckontros> Ok. Don't be afraid to say "no". Makes some people think I'ma dick but at least there's no ambiguity and folks know where they stand. <scott-work> hell, i'm upset now * ckontros shrugs. <scott-work> it pisses me off when someone from the outside comes in with that kinda attitude without understanding the players or the situation <ckontros> scott-work: Well, what upsets me is the attitude. I asked a simple question. Fuck who I am. It's a legitimate question if some guy who joined the list a day ago asked. <ckontros> And dammit he's sending stuff right to me AND the list. So my reply just want to him. Dammit. Ill fix it. <ckontros> Ok. It's there: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-September/002524.html <scott-work> lol <ckontros> @? :) <ckontros> (specifically) <ckontros> scott-work: And actually, when shit like this happens it's usually because English isn't their 1st language. But I assumed he's just in AU and English was fine. Maybe he's an immigrant? Or young? Or both?. Whatever. I gotta shower this grime offa me. <scott-work> oh, just putting the hammer down on him, what i found funny was you saying that I'm the only one who said I wouldn't cut ;) <ckontros> Well, I said you because, well, you drew it and you're the boss. :) <ckontros> scott-work: But all this is kinda why I mentioned shooting for next release. Gives time to better define audience and thematic elements. Doing it all now, is just forced. <ckontros> Ok. Later. PM if needed. #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-02 <rlameiro> ScottL: are you there? <holstein> hey rlameiro :) <holstein> long time no see <rlameiro> hey bass juggler <rlameiro> :D <rlameiro> how are your finger tips? <ScottL> hi rlameiro <ScottL> how are you doing? <rlameiro> vacations over <rlameiro> ScottL: did you saw that thing on the ML? <rlameiro> I send a reply now <ScottL> rlameiro, about the website? <rlameiro> the guy started to quote things <rlameiro> then I quoted back <rlameiro> ScottL: yeap <rlameiro> ScottL: check it ou <rlameiro> *out <ScottL> rlameiro, lol, that's a good one ;) <rlameiro> ScottL: I hate when people quote things for the sole purpose of using it for self benefit <rlameiro> the world suffered a lot because of that <jussi> PEOPLES!!!!!!!!!! if we dont test the beta, it wont be released!! TEST TEST TEST!!! URGENT!!! http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all <jussi> quadrispro: ScottL TheMuso persia astraljava abogani holstein ^^ <quadrispro> jussi, emailing ubuntu italian testing team about that, I am not able to test anything now :( <jussi> quadrispro: thanks <scott-work> my ignorance may be slightly embarrasing but i really would like to understand this process <scott-work> the beta ISO was made available two days (i think) and there's pressure to get the ISO testing before the end of today? <scott-work> are we expected to test the ISO's before it's offical release? is this just for the Beta and RC? <scott-work> jussi, TheMuso, persia ^^^ <falktx> hi scott-work <falktx> scott-work: i'm thinking of making an ubuntustudio liveDVD soon, just for fun <scott-work> falktx: holstein was mentioned this as well, that would be awesome i think <scott-work> falktx: how do you build your current ISO's? remastersys and then host the ISO on sourceforge? <falktx> scott-work: i'm making kxstudio from scratch now (was previously based on kubuntu), so I now know how to do it <falktx> scott-work: scratch, really start from nothing <scott-work> how would you make the liveDVD? remastersys or similar? <falktx> i can show you my little script <scott-work> falktx: but how do you actually build the ISO? <scott-work> falktx: yes please <falktx> scott-work: everything is made on a chroot <scott-work> hmmm, i think i may have read something about this on the wiki.ubuntu.com <falktx> scott-work: first installing the basic packages, then keep adding new ones (usually just 1 or 2 metapackages that depends on everything else) <falktx> scott-work: yes, i got some info from there too <falktx> scott-work: then the ISO is just made using ubuntu stuff as base (artwork, grubfx, syslinux, boot, etc) <falktx> i just modify the artwork and text to KXStudio <falktx> I couldnt make a custom alternate dvd though... <falktx> scott-work: the scripts - http://ppa.launchpad.net/falk-t-j/kxstudio/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kxstudio-scripts/kxstudio-scripts_0.5~ppa2.tar.gz <falktx> scott-work: it's the 'kxstudio-create-iso' that you would want to look at <scott-work> falktx: persia had mentioned that building a live cd would include using casper and ubuiqity, are you doing this as well <falktx> scott-work: yes <falktx> scott-work: you would need to theme the ubiquity though, or it will look exactly like the ubuntu installer <falktx> scott-work: making a live ISO it's usually simple as running these commands: <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mount <base-iso-img> <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso squash <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso custom <falktx> (here install stuff) <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso custom_end <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mkboot <path-to-artwork> <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mkart <path-to-artwork> <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso md5sum <falktx> kxstudio-create-iso iso <name> <falktx> and it's done <falktx> the mkboot and mkart steps are optional <falktx> scott-work: i should get a testing ISO build next week <falktx> scott-work: i'll let you know how it goes <scott-work> sweet <falktx> scott-work: it is ok to add my ppa to it? <falktx> scott-work: maybe also calf-plugins git version <falktx> btw, I noticed a refresh of ubuntustudio-meta package <falktx> new apps coming? <scott-work> falktx: we removed the -rt headers in us-meta as the -rt kernel has been removed from the archives <falktx> scott-work: oh, which kernel do you recommend? <scott-work> falktx: -generic <scott-work> falktx: the studio team needs to address a few issues with the kernel team about moving forward (which i completely forgot to do yesterday! arghh) <falktx> scott-work: i was thinking about putting 2.6.33-rt on the live dvd... <scott-work> holstein: are you available to test the amd64 ISO images ? <falktx> scott-work: i'll be able to test it soon, as I'll format my laptop again once I build a new testing ISO... <falktx> scott-work: what do we need to test? <scott-work> we basically need all the ISO images tested in the next day or so, falktx <scott-work> i think i can handle the i386 this evening <falktx> scott-work: but I mean, just to check if it installs? or you need any specific testing? <scott-work> checking the ISO is just to see if the image installs <scott-work> i just learned from #ubuntu-release that there is a two or three day window that the iso.qa tests are intended to validate the iso images themselves <scott-work> during the rest of the time before the next iso image release is for testing the OS, applications, settings, et al <falktx> ok, i'll test how jack is performing in a default maverick install <falktx> 64bit <holstein> jussi scott-work , when do these need to be tested? <holstein> i think i could do it sunday or monday <scott-work> holstein: that is probably too late :( we'll find another way <holstein> scott-work: im going to join #ubuntu-release <holstein> and see <holstein> i can probably do some today * holstein is checking schedule :) <holstein> yeah, im gonna make it happen today <holstein> the amd64 's <holstein> scott-work jussi this iso correct? <holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/current/ <scott-work> holstein: try this one: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all <holstein> scott-work: but thats the iso right? <holstein> the daily? <scott-work> i'm not sure actually, presumably it should be...you could compare the md5sums <holstein> hmmm <holstein> comapare them with? <holstein> im not seeing any indication at iso tracker as to what iso to test <holstein> maybe you or jussi just dropped me a link last time or something <holstein> i cant remember how i knew which version to get <scott-work> holstein: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4523 <holstein> :) <scott-work> on the link i had given before , first click on the 64bit test, then look for the picture of an arrow pointed down over a cd (near the top) <scott-work> it's kinda a crappy and hidden link :( <scott-work> coloring it red or blue or fuscua (sp?) or mauve or even aubergine would be nicer * holstein vaguely rembering something like that now <holstein> ANYWAYS, thanks scott-work <holstein> i didnt want to do all this work on the wrong ISO :0 <scott-work> holstein: LOL, yeah, that would have been teh sux <holstein> scott-work jussi <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4529 <holstein> thats for the i386 one <holstein> This build wasn't found on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20100902.1/maverick-alternate-i386.iso (may no longer exists) <scott-work> i'm seeing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4524 for i386 which does download <holstein> scott-work: thanks <scott-work> but i should be able to get the i386 this evening if you don't want to worry about and focus on the amd64 <holstein> 12:25 < cjwatson> holstein: as long as you test 20100902.1 not 20100902 <holstein> scott-work: i think thats the older one <holstein> scott-work: its not me <scott-work> gah...yeah and now i see more images coming from email :/ <holstein> somebody else in -release was trying to DL it <holstein> yeah, i just wasnt in yet <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4529 <holstein> that is working now <scott-work> cool <scott-work> holstein: but please focus on amd64 first, i can always get teh i386 this evening myself * holstein not doing any i386 <holstein> but maybe that guy in -release will do all the 386 stuff while your at work :) <scott-work> that would be sweet as well :) <scott-work> and thanks holstein , i really appreciate doing this <persia> scott-work, There is a test phase to confirm the final ISOs. <scott-work> persia: that is what i understand now after talking with ara and cjwatson in #ubuntu-release <scott-work> my misunderstanding what the time table and purpose <persia> Ah, OK. I'm still behind on backscroll, but glad you got good answers from folks who know more details than I. <quadrispro> hi guys! <quadrispro> hi persia, scott-work <scott-work> hi quadrispro ! <quadrispro> scott-work, naspro is sitting in Debian NEW :( <quadrispro> I've packaged naspro-core, naspro-bridges-bad and permafrost <scott-work> i'm guessing there is a reason it's sitting there rather than moving on? <quadrispro> yep, squeeze is frozen and there are more important things to manage for now <scott-work> oh, i've been meaning to bug you about quadrispro <scott-work> when you are looking forward for new things to package, can you update the swh-plugin ? <quadrispro> I remember that I had a look some time ago... <quadrispro> ahh! <quadrispro> scott-work, talking about this? http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/swh-plugins.html <scott-work> i think the current version in the archives do not include the lv2 plugins <scott-work> quadrispro: yes, that should be it :) <quadrispro> so swh-plugins provides sources for LV2 stuff? <quadrispro> if the package does, we can fix it on Ubuntu * quadrispro away for just 8-10 minutes <holstein> scott-work: SO <holstein> these are failing for me <holstein> at the 'select and install software' step <scott-work> argh, sorry quadrispro, i might be wrong about swh lv2 stuff...i apparently misread swh's website, it looks like we might already have the lv2 stuff in ubuntu, i'll check it out this weekend <holstein> and thats with me *not* selecting any packages * holstein confirmed the md5 <quadrispro> ok <scott-work> holstein: i ran into the same problem two nights ago with the i386 <scott-work> i had hoped that updating ubuntustudio-meta would fix that :( <scott-work> holstein: can you report the bug and link it in the ISO tracker? <holstein> i'l try <holstein> let me do the last one just to be done with it <holstein> scott-work: have you noticed a current bug report for it? <holstein> i know there is one for when you *do* select a certain package <scott-work> holstein: i tried it both ways the other night and got a failure for installing software in both cases so the problem isn't with the actual software selection portion <scott-work> so i would link to the same bug myself * holstein will look for one <holstein> and make a new one if not <holstein> andd link it up :) <scott-work> thanks again, holstein! <holstein> no problem <holstein> its really not a gruling as i was thining it wouldd be <holstein> and im going to leave my studio box in a state that makes it easier to test with it in the future <scott-work> #628981 <scott-work> bug 628981 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 628981 in linux-rt (Ubuntu) "linux-headers-rt not installable breaks installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628981 <holstein> OH <holstein> is that the culprit <scott-work> hmmm, i had expected this to be fixed by the respin because persia and i removed the -rt headers from the ubuntustudio-meta :( <persia> Might have been a timing thing: it may be that the task generation script in launchpad (which defines the tasks) ran at a different-than-expected time. <scott-work> persia: should i ask cjwatson for *another* respin but mention the us-meta update ? * persia is checking caches <persia> There's something ugly about the ubuntustudio tasks :( <persia> N: Couldn't find task 'ubuntustudio-desktop' <persia> `apt-cache show evince` doesn't show the ubuntustudio-desktop task, but "evince" clearly appears in ubuntustudio.maverick/desktop <persia> Someone else may be able to figure out more, but I don't expect to be able to understand why it's behaving so oddly before we miss the final Beta deadline. <holstein> :/ <persia> Indeed :( <holstein> who can we get? <holstein> JFo: ?? <holstein> ping me if i can help <holstein> i reported on all the test cases for amd64 <scott-work> unfortunately, my back is up against a wall at work, maybe in about three hours i can spend more time * scott-work has already spent more time today than i should on non-work related stuff :( <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4529/222 <holstein> that seems promising <scott-work> holstein: thanks for interfacing with cjwatson about that :) <scott-work> hopefully that fixes it <holstein> scott-work: im going to be a while though <holstein> but i'll just keek talking to cj about what im doing <holstein> i think as long as someone is testing, we're goodd <JFo> holstein? <JFo> you rang? <holstein> JFo: hey <holstein> i think i sorted it out <JFo> hiya <JFo> ah, cool <holstein> i grabbed an iso too early it seems :) <JFo> heh <holstein> which is an easy problem to remedy * persia forwards bug #622583 to the archive-admins to complete the -rt removals. <ubottu> Launchpad bug 622583 in linux-meta-rt (Ubuntu) "Remove the linux-meta-rt packages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622583 <holstein> we are good to go with 64bit iso tests :) <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4528 <holstein> actually, we're good with all of them :) <holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4529 #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-03 <persia> Nice job holstein! Great coordination with all the teams. <holstein> yeah, it really came together there nicely :) <ScottL> good job holstein ! thank you much :) <astraljava> re: bug 622583, this is very confusing. At times there is talk about including -rt under the support of UKT, and now they're being removed completely. Huh? <ubottu> Launchpad bug 622583 in linux-meta-rt (Ubuntu) "Remove the linux-meta-rt packages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622583 <abogani> . <ScottL> this may seem like a bad situation but i think this may have an advantage for us <ScottL> since we cannot control when the -rt kernel are available (meaning when a new one will come out) <ScottL> and there is pressure even from within the studio team to keep the kernel (studio vs desktop) aligned <ScottL> and i believe UKT hasn't really been directly support the -rt kernel, it's really been abogani <ScottL> it makes sense to remove it from the archives <ScottL> BUT that means we can host it in ppa without messing around with UKT <ScottL> that means we have *complete* control over and without having to interface with someone else about it :) <ScottL> we just have to let users know where it is <abogani> https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa <ScottL> like with abogani's ppa <ScottL> touche abogani <abogani> :-) * abogani sorry for have removed -rt from official archives but there isn't a better way to handle *this* situation. * abogani hopes in you understanding <abogani> *your <abogani> My English is getting worse rapidly... :-( <abogani> ScottL: I agreed with you expect that I have preferred have -lowlatency kernel into official archives and used as default kernel in Studio. That because it is a PREEMPT (not PREEMPT-RT) kernel but is always better than -generic. * ScottL was taking daughter out to school bus <ScottL> abogani, i absolutely understand removing -rt kernel from the archives and completely support it <ScottL> i believe that including it in the first place was probably a misstep given that we can't control when it would be released and the UKT reasonable constraint of aligning kernels between studio and desktop <ScottL> furthermore i agree with you abogani that we should probably move towards including the -lowlatency kernel in the archives as our official kernel for both i386 and amd64 <ScottL> i've delayed (and quite honest forgotten about) it because work has been sooo busy and intense for the past couple of day, but i hope today to talk to JFo more about that later * ScottL is off this Friday workday :) <abogani> ScottL, :-) <abogani> ScottL, FYI: The -lowlatency kernel maintenance is very *trivial* and *everyone* could do it but benefit are interesting. <ScottL> abogani, why do you say "interesting" <abogani> ScottL: Effort is minimal (because for very low cost of -lowlatency maintenance) but improving respect -generic is really interesting (so with a very good results from a latency/jitter technical view). The -lowlatency is a full preempatble kernel after all! <abogani> In short we can improve a lot with a minimal effort. * abogani think that when -lowlatency will be into official archives a lot of people will start to use if. All applications seems more fast and all system is more reactive. <abogani> s/if/it <ScottL> hi quadrispro <quadrispro> ciao ScottL ! <ScottL> abogani, i thought by "interesting" you meant it had some strange or unexpected benefits <abogani> ScottL, ... some really good (expected) benefits. <ScottL> :) <ScottL> hi JFo , you got a minute ? <JFo> ScottL, sure <ScottL> sorry, for not getting back to you a couple of days ago <ScottL> but what i would like to talk about is the possibility of getting the -lowlatency kernel into the archives <ScottL> since the -rt kernel has been removed from the archives, this would be a very good kernel to have in a ubuntu studio installation by default <JFo> no problem, let me ask the team if that is possible. <JFo> I think the consensus was that if there was an -rt kernel, then a -preempt one would be extra work <abogani> JFo, I would want let you notice that -lowlatency offers good latency/jitter performance meanwhile it have a very low maintenance costs (and It could be version aligned with -generic one). <ScottL> JFo, if the -lowlatency kernel was included in the archives would the UKT support it directly by creating and uploading? <ScottL> or would it be community (i.e. studio and abogani ) maintained? if this is the case it would be nice to designate a point of contact for abogani for uploading <JFo> ScottL, I think that is a conversation that needs to happen between abogani and the team. The -rt stuff is something that is before my time here. <JFo> as all I have been told <JFo> is that there would be duplication of effort to have a -rt and a -preempt <JFo> but I will ask <abogani> JFo, I understand. In any case please take a look of simple configuration differences between -generic and -lowlatency at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=abogani/ubuntu-lowlatency-maverick.git;a=blob;f=debian.lowlatency/README.Debian;h=102b656fb3f26e30b3094fc91705ee5f3e0ccac8;hb=refs/heads/lowlatency <abogani> JFo, Thanks for all. <JFo> abogani, no problem :) <ScottL> JFo, definite thanks for helping coordinate this :) <JFo> ScottL, my pleasure <JFo> I just don't know how much help I will be :) <JFo> lots of things flying around at the moment :) <ScottL> JFo, completely understandable, and this isn't something that needs to be resolved right at this moment <JFo> ok <ScottL> but i would like to find a well thought out path forward where everyone understand the expectations which functions well for our uses :) <JFo> ScottL, maybe it is worthwhile to get you together with some of the team to discuss <JFo> I'll see what I can do about that <JFo> looks like the people I would ask are off today <JFo> so may be Monday before I have anything solid <ScottL> JFo, that would be outstanding, i'll be off (US holiday) on monday so that looks very promising :) <JFo> same here <JFo> but I'll still see what I can do <JFo> so let's plan to discuss Tuesday <ScottL> JFo, that sound good <JFo> excellent * JFo pencils that in :) <astraljava> abogani1: I see your reasoning, and understand that better now. Thanks for the explanation! :) <abogani1> astraljava: :-) #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-06 <persia> There was some talk in -release about cleaning up cdimage.ubuntu.com. I notice that Ubuntu Studio didn't participate in 8.04.2 or 8.04.3 point releases (we did participate in 8.04.1). If anyone is still running hardy, it might be interesting to work with the testing team come December/January for 8.04.4 (although there's lots of reasons why newer releases are better). <astraljava> persia: I should have environment ready by December, so that I can still run Hardy for testing purposes. <persia> astraljava, OK. You might want to follow up with the #ubuntu-testing folks come November or so, and find out what needs doing, etc. I'd also suggest confirming with ScottL, just because if we release an 8.04.4, that implies that we also support it. <astraljava> persia: I understand. Okay, I'll join the #, and chat with ScottL to see whether support is provided or not. In theory, I at least could provide it, but I'm not willing to do it alone, as I fear I might not be able to solo it. <persia> Heh, indeed. That's why it's something to discuss, rather than just a "hey, someone test next time" :) <astraljava> Gotcha. :) <quadrispro> persia, I'd like to re-open a discussion with the upstream of linuxsampler <quadrispro> about the license, obviously <quadrispro> WDYT? <persia> quadrispro, If you like. I'll wish you luck. <persia> I don't expect the upstream position has or will change. <persia> But I could be needlessly pessimistic about it. <quadrispro> I don't expect it too, but I would like to have an attempt <quadrispro> me too :/ <persia> Makes sense. It's been a while since it last came up. <persia> http://www.linuxsampler.org/downloads.html still has the same text <quadrispro> persia, please help me to re-summarize some good points. First, it doesn't conflict with DFSG only, it breaks GPL <quadrispro> am I right? <persia> I believe so. Check the ML archives: there's lots of good arguments from the past. <quadrispro> well <quadrispro> I will <quadrispro> hope to see a bit of collaboration <quadrispro> from upstream <persia> quadrispro, You ma also want to explore packaging JSampler and/or jlscp : same upstream, but sane licensing (and don't seem to be in the archives) <quadrispro> ohh, java... <quadrispro> jlscp <persia> glancing at GPL again, I'd think section 1 was the first awkward bit (discussing charging, and warrants), but I'm not an expert about that clause (it's generally the one I pay the least attention). <persia> But it's a clear violation of DFSG#6 <quadrispro> " You are NOT ALLOWED to use LinuxSampler source code, libraries or applications in COMMERCIAL hardware or software products without prior written authorization by the authors. [...]" <quadrispro> really, I don't understand the reasons... :/ <quadrispro> persia, BTW, I don't have much experience in packaging java stuff, if have time to work on jlscp,jsampler I would give my contribution and upload them to NEW, when ready <quadrispro> if you have time * <persia> I don't remember the specifics, but a couple example reasons I can imagine someone might have would be 1) don't want others to profit from their work without sharing revenues, 2) have used some data only available for non-commercial or research purposes in creating the code, and fear the owner of that data if the code is later used in ways not compatible with the data disclosure agreement, 3) work for an organisation that only allows one <persia> to release open code for non-commercial purposes, etc. <persia> I don't, nor much interest, really. From what I understand JSampler/jlscp is just another front-end (like qsampler) to the unfree linuxsampler. <quadrispro> 1) 2) 3) I got it, then... easy: if one wants to prevent that, GPL is not for him <persia> That's my thought. But there's not a lot of good examples of non-commercial licenses. <persia> I suspect that comes because not so many people want to fund lawyers to inspect and create good ones :) <quadrispro> eheh, it is so :) <persia> Looks like the last messy discussion about it was in early 2008. Given http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2008-January/020531.html , I have the impression that there's some strong (although not clearly disclosed) reasons for the restriction. * persia tries to get back to the regularly scheduled ignoring of linuxsampler :) <quadrispro> oh, having a look <persia> heh: I fail. So, the trick is that one sells a 1U short-rack audio box, with a program that will automate the download, recompilation, and installation of linuxsampler post-registration :) <persia> One isn't actually selling linuxsampler :) That said, if it's that easy to get around, there may be some weird reason it's licensed the way it is. <quadrispro> i see <quadrispro> persia, do you have requests for some LV2 plugins that aren't already available in Maverick? <persia> I don't think we can add anything else to Maverick at this point. <persia> But I haven't done a scan of software-that-ought-be-packaged in a good long while. Maybe someone else has a list? <quadrispro> yep, there is a list <quadrispro> no, at this point we can't add anything new <quadrispro> but I can update my TODO list and work on them for Debian <quadrispro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskLV2Inclusion <ScottL> astraljava, persia: re: 8.04.04 testing - i'd rather not test for it and then have to support it because 10.04 is far superior in my opinion, that's not a hard position, but just a general leaning <ScottL> persia, quadrispro: i am thinking of asking rexbron (andrew hunter) to get linuxsampler in his PPA <astraljava> ScottL: Fine by me, I have no big desire for it anyway, was just offering some HDD space for it. :D <ScottL> i had a different opinion before karmic and lucid though :P i thought hardy was ace <ScottL> seeing how much structural differences and improvements since hardy is amazing and encouraging <quadrispro> ScottL, the packaging is almost ready to go -> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/linuxsampler.git * quadrispro away for a bit <persia> ScottL, Given the license for linuxsampler, I'd strongly recommend thinking twice before asking anyone else to distribute it. If you're comfortable, that's fine, but ... <persia> ScottL, Also, re: 10.04, we didn't participate in 10.04.1: so we'd probably want to get on the ball if we're to do 10.04.2 (same reasoning as 8.04.4) <ScottL> persia, doh, i already sent a mail to rexbron's mail on the -dev list but at least i did mention there were licensing issues :/ <persia> Well, that might work. If he doesn't feel comfortable distributing, maybe he'll reply that the licensing issues were too many. <ScottL> if anyone is testing maverick can they see if lv2rack or zynjacku will work ? #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-07 <astraljava> ScottL: I can probably test tonight and see whether maverick finally installs on my env or not. <ScottL> astraljava, i think i found the problem (but please test it as well) <ScottL> it seems that our version of zynjacku/lv2rack (they come from the same source) expects lashd to be isntalled <astraljava> ScottL: Ahh... okay. But yeah, I'll check it out. <astraljava> ScottL: Err... wait, not tonight, but tomorrow. I'll be home today at around 9 pm. <persia> That might be a missing dependency: if the app doesn't work without lashd, we ought force lashd to be installed simultaneously when people install the app. <quadrispro> ScottL, http://debomatic64.debian.net/unstable/pool/swh-lv2_1.0.15+20091215.git2358739-1/ <ScottL> quadrispro, awesome! but i forget, does ubuntu sync from testing or unstable? <ScottL> if ubuntu syncs from testing, how soon before swh-lv2 hits testing? <ScottL> LP: #613145 <ScottL> bug 613145 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 613145 in zynjacku (Ubuntu) "zynjacku crashed with TypeError in main()" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613145 <ScottL> quadrispro, even if you fix this bug, persia and i had talked about including lash in natty <quadrispro> well <quadrispro> working on swh-lv2 packaging, there are a number of things to fix <ScottL> oh :( <quadrispro> s/are/is/ ? :/ oh, my bad english <quadrispro> persia knows how bad is my english :( <ScottL> are was correct for a plural noun (there) <ScottL> especially with "things" in the predicate of the sentence <quadrispro> ther is a number <quadrispro> there * <quadrispro> mmmh <ScottL> correct <ScottL> :) <quadrispro> yep :) <quadrispro> yuppie <ScottL> lol <ScottL> i just want to point out again, quadrispro, your help is astounding and studio is really seeing great benefits from it :) <quadrispro> thanks : <quadrispro> ) <quadrispro> I'm happy of that <quadrispro> see you later! <persia> ScottL, Just for confirmation, fixing the bug in the way that the package depends on lash automatically includes lash in the images. Doesn't address the overall using-lash-to-make-life-easy thing (that's natty) <scott-work> detrate`: i'm still exploring avenues for getting the website done in drupal but i have to admit that i'm running out of options <scott-work> detrate`: if things continue the way they are it would seem we would need to explore word press (or other cms) and find replacement hosting <scott-work> detrate`: would you still be interested in helping with the website ? <ryanpg> hi, I was just over on #ubuntustudio but perhaps this is a better channel <ryanpg> I'm getting anxious about the state of jackd in 10.10, several major applications have conflicting requirements for jackd and jackd2 <ryanpg> with 10.10 being released in one month, it doesn't seem likely there will be a functional jackd "environment" available. Am I understanding the situation correctly? <scott-work> ryanpg: i don't think so, i've downloaded and installed the beta version and jack works for me :) <scott-work> but i'm just using it to record guitar, bass, and vocals from my delta44 and get drums from hydrogen all into ardour <scott-work> ryanpg: can you give some specific examples of major applications having conflicting requirements for jackd and jack2 <ryanpg> hi scott-work one example: ardour and supercollider <scott-work> ryanpg: hmmm, ardour worked for me in the beta version, but i don't use supercollider <scott-work> ryanpg: have you tried the beta version to see how it works? <ryanpg> scott-work, ok - it may be just a few cases then - yes, I'm running beta <scott-work> ryanpg: so is supercollider not working properly with jack for you? <ryanpg> scott-work, it cannot be installed due to conflicting requirements <holstein> ryanpg: do you still have list? <holstein> from synaptic or whatever <scott-work> hmmm, many packages needed to be rebuilt against the new jack and have been, this may have been one that was overlooked <holstein> scott-work: i bet <scott-work> hi holstein , i said we would probably talk this morning :) <holstein> its not in be default right? <holstein> that would make sense <scott-work> correct, i just checked <holstein> scott-work: :) <scott-work> holstein: following our conversation last night, when you are thinking about packages, try to think in terms of "workflows" <holstein> yeah, i was reading that over the OSMP <holstein> i like that idea quite a bit <scott-work> the idea would be to identify specific workflows, include the apps, and docuement <scott-work> oh, okay :) <scott-work> not my idea, it was persia's, but it's brilliant i think * ryanpg removes some ppa repo's and backs out some changes <holstein> i think we can come up with several quite different ones from the pool of OSMP users <holstein> if you just take [lsd] and I <holstein> we have totally different needs <holstein> and the podcasters too <holstein> great idea persia <holstein> scott-work: i had a section on the WIKI about that <holstein> i'll try and make some noise about it <scott-work> holstein: the osm wiki ? or ubuntu wiki? <holstein> and get some contributors there <holstein> the OSM one <holstein> even if they dont run ubuntustudio <holstein> the workflow could still be useful <scott-work> i had thought about podcasters as well, even streaming live audio like we were talkging about <scott-work> holstein: oh, i asked the guy about internet at the party, he said they could accomodate that so i'll try to stream audio :) <holstein> w00t :) <ryanpg> ok, I think I discovered what's going on - supercollider is apparently not included in 10.10 ? I must have added a ppa with a version that requires an earlier version of jackd <holstein> ryanpg: its good to catch that though <ryanpg> holstein, thanks - but it's muuuuch better that I was wrong about the state of affairs with jackd! <ryanpg> :) <holstein> scott-work: thats probably one for the list <scott-work> oh, yeah...i had checked to see if it was in ubuntu studio by default, i just now checked and it's not in the official archives at all! <holstein> to think about <holstein> supercollider <scott-work> holstein: i think there are some licensing issues, i seem to remember persia and maybe quadrispro talking about upstream <holstein> AH <holstein> scott-work: when are the meetings here? <scott-work> i could be misremembering this though, i'll look at debian <holstein> i wouldnt mind to get a list of those packages together <holstein> the ones with questionalbe legal states <holstein> and put that up on a wiki somewhere <holstein> so that can be referenced if that comes up <scott-work> yeah, supercollider is not in debian either, most likely licensing then <ryanpg> perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but I thought supercollider was included previously - wonder what changed <scott-work> that's a good idea holstein, along with a reason why the package is not included with links to email or whatnot <holstein> OH <holstein> even better <scott-work> ryanpg: according to ubuntu packages, it was in dapper only http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=names&keywords=supercollider <ryanpg> yeah, just checking that now <ryanpg> wow, that was quite some time ago <scott-work> holstein: troy_s had also suggested also suggested a wiki page with the rationale for why apps are *included* in studio as well <scott-work> good example is network-admin vs network-manager <holstein> scott-work: thats the kind of thing i can help with right now <holstein> im working on my wiki-foo <holstein> akgraner is schooling me :) <scott-work> lol, i looked at the supercollider package in launchpad, last build was 234 weeks ago :) <scott-work> cool holstein <ryanpg> apparently there's not much need for supercollider on ubuntu :) <scott-work> ryanpg: you might send an email to the owner of the ppa with supercollider about rebuilding it against the new jack <ryanpg> scott-work, good idea <scott-work> ryanpg: i found this one also, don't know if you are using it or another or even if this one has been rebuilt https://launchpad.net/~supercollider/+archive/ppa <ryanpg> yes, that's the ppa I used - it has not been rebuilt * holstein wonders if falktx has it <ryanpg> oh, I know ÐÑÑÑÐ¼ ÐÐ¾Ð¿Ð¾Ð² :) <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid <ryanpg> artfwo <holstein> nah <holstein> i dont see it in falks PPA <ryanpg> I think artfwo is the guy to go to for supercollider <holstein> cool <holstein> falktx is the kind of guy who would fix it to include it in KXstudio <holstein> and put it in that PPA <ryanpg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtemPopov <holstein> BB <ryanpg> ok, I contacted artfwo <ryanpg> his packages are being used by puredyne btw <holstein> AH <ryanpg> he has submitted supercollider to revo for ubuntu <scott-work> holstein: we haven't really had meeting in a while because not enough people were attending, and those that did attend often didn't work on what they said they would <holstein> ryanpg: thanks <ryanpg> there are problems with the way libraries are named - which is why supercollider is not inlcuded <ryanpg> holstein, welcome <holstein> scott-work: maybe we can talk about that too <ryanpg> I have a working PPA now with rebuilt supercollider <scott-work> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/supercollider <holstein> we've had the same thing going on with out LOCO <holstein> our LOCO* <ryanpg> also, he tells me that the new cmake build system should fix the issues with supercollider <holstein> we went to monthly meetings instead of bi-monthly <holstein> we'll see <ryanpg> ppa:artfwo/ppa btw <ryanpg> apparently artfwo was a big part of the "revolution" to jackd2 <scott-work> is artfwo nedko ? <scott-work> that's confusing <ryanpg> I don't think so <scott-work> i know someone named nedko who has worked on jack2, is he the same person as artfwo? <scott-work> lol you already answered my confusing question <ryanpg> https://launchpad.net/~artfwo I also know nedko - but yea different <scott-work> holstein: will you be around in an hour? i'd like to talk some more but i really need to get some work done at work ;) <holstein> i should be <ryanpg> way OT - but what's the deal with all the .save files in /etc/apt/ in 10.10 <ryanpg> bbl, restarting X * abogani waves <holstein> abogani: :) <abogani> holstein, Hi Mike. <scott-work> hi abogani , are you doing okay today? <abogani> scott-work, Well thanks. <scott-work> JFo: are we still planning on talking about kernels today? <jussi> scott-work: We dont normally recommend debian packages to users of ubuntu, as they can break stuff. Ive no idea how the one you mentioned is, but its bad practice in any case. <JFo> scott-work, sorry about that, was in a meeting <JFo> we can chat if you like :) * holstein thought it was just mentioning where the work was happening on guitarix <scott-work> jussi: i shall refrain from doing that in the future then, thank you for making me aware of the potential problem :) <jussi> scott-work: no probs, always glad to help if I can. :) <scott-work> JFo: oh, no problem for me, i've been quite busy with the usual "monday morning" events even though it's tuesday :) <JFo> heh, same here <JFo> had 2 meetings that weren't on my calendar before that last one <JFo> ,-death by meeting <scott-work> JFo: did you want to discuss this with some of the other kernel members? <scott-work> lol, yeah, i get the "we have a problem we need to solve right NOW" meetings as well :) <scott-work> argh, i had wanted to start working on team reports already for ubuntu studio and keep putting it off :P <JFo> scott-work, we can if you like, but I have been given some guidance on the subject of -rt, -preempt or -lowlatency kernels <scott-work> JFo: sweet :) <scott-work> i'm good just talking to you <JFo> want to talk here about it or in a private wondow? <JFo> window rather <scott-work> whichever you feel is appropriate :) <scott-work> holstein: would you like to continue some of our previous converstaion about meetings and wiki pages? <holstein> sure <scott-work> you were mentioning your loco meetings and i thought there might be a tangent you wanted to explore in relation to ubuntu studio :) <holstein> i just think it might be a good idea to log the progess <holstein> we've just been plugging through them <holstein> meetings <holstein> and it shows that something is going on <holstein> and folks do go and check the logs <holstein> more than i though would at least <holstein> scott-work: maybe we could just schedule one? <holstein> a meeting <holstein> and i could get a little louder about it over in OSM's <holstein> get those ubuntu folk here maybe <holstein> scott-work: but i know your busy too <scott-work> holstein: oh, i could certainly make time for a meeting :) <holstein> what was the normal thing? <holstein> monthly? <holstein> then we could talk about wiki's and what not then <holstein> maybe establish a line of communication with myself and the list <holstein> and i can figure out where to put some of that information we talked about <scott-work> holstein: yes, it tended to be monthly as best as we could ;) <scott-work> holstein: the other thing we were discussing was the wiki pages, if you want to start a wiki page that'd be oustanding, i'll add what i can as well :) <holstein> scott-work: mabye i can just find one that already existing and update <holstein> or add to it <holstein> but, im totally on board for that <scott-work> it's kind of surprising that an email about gnome-network-admin being fixed didn't receive any replies :/ <scott-work> i would have thought many people would be estatic about it <abogani> scott-work, I never received an reply on my emails about -rt in three years. So I suspect that this is the "normal" behavior. :-) * persia doesn't know of any licensing issues with supercollider <persia> Ah: found it. There used to be lots of issues (see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=454257 ), which I believe upstream has mostly fixed, but nobody has done the work to get it back in the repositories. <ubottu> Debian bug 454257 in ftp.debian.org "RM: supercollider -- RoQA; RC-buggy, few users" [Normal,Open] <holstein> persia: good news #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-08 <rexbron> hey everyone <ScottL> doh, that's the second time i missed rexbron before he left again <persia> MemoServ was designed to address that specific concern :) <astraljava> ScottL: I'm not e[c]static over g-n-a being fixed, as I can't use it myself. :) 3G connection requires NM. :) <astraljava> ScottL: But yeah, I haven't had time to put into US this cycle muchly, what with the house, the puppy, now univ. studies and work overtime. I would expect things to get better for the next one. <astraljava> ScottL: Might even get DSL for that, w00t! :) <quadrispro> ScottL, swh-lv2 seems working fine <quadrispro> ScottL, I'm about to upload it to Debian NEW <persia> Woohoo! * abogani waves <quadrispro> ciao abogani <astraljava> Hiya guys. :) <abogani> quadrispro: Ciao! <scott-work> good morning everyone :) <scott-work> astraljava: thanks for the email to the list :) <scott-work> perhaps i should have been much more succinct and explained that networking should work out of the box <scott-work> i tend to try to explain too much <scott-work> getting swh-lv2 packages is awesome :) <scott-work> will there be any reason to ship swh-plugins (ladspa) with studio if we have swh-lv2 ? <astraljava> scott-work: By out of the box, do you mean also 3G connections? <scott-work> astraljava: actually, probably not for 3g <scott-work> but previously, unless you were connecting the computer directly to a router (with dhcp) via a network cable then you probably didn't have network since you couldn't configure your connection <scott-work> at least now those with wireless (i.e. a lot of users with laptops) should be able to configure their settings to connect :) <scott-work> holstein: when would a meeting work for you? <scott-work> holstein: and i remember us talking about making a wiki page for apps that are not included in studio, was there another one we were discussing as well ? <falktx> hey guys <holstein> falktx: hey <falktx> i already spoke about this some time ago <holstein> scott-work: should it be evening? <falktx> I'm about to make an ubuntustudio live dvd, for testing <holstein> falktx: nice <falktx> should it be lucid or maverick? <holstein> im going to get some help from a friend on chroot <holstein> i say lucid <scott-work> maverick has a gnome-network-admin that works though :) <scott-work> and maverick has jack2 <holstein> true * holstein changes mind <falktx> yep, I think maverick is the one that needs testing <scott-work> holstein: i don't expect too many people in the meeting, if you intend to attend the meeting then i say we work around your schedule ;) <falktx> guys on the forums are asking about a maverick PPA <scott-work> i'll make it at almost any time <scott-work> falktx: for which applications ? <falktx> would you guys consider a team PPA? <falktx> scott-work: mostly US ones <scott-work> falktx: for applications that are already in studio ? i'm not sure i'm understanding the purpose of the ppa then <falktx> scott-work: for updates <falktx> scott-work: oh, of course, for apps not in the official repos too <holstein> scott-work: wednesdays are usually good <astraljava> scott-work: Looks like I won't be able to test today; this 3G is just too unreliable and slow... <holstein> scott-work: not the next few though <holstein> astraljava: :/ <scott-work> falktx: i think that is an idea we should explore <scott-work> holstein: you want to try in about three weeks ? <scott-work> astraljava: that's okay, sorry you are having problems though <falktx> scott-work: my biggest problem is that I dont have easy acess to the internet (no net at home) <falktx> scott-work: I wont be able to maintain a maverick PPA <falktx> scott-work: even for my lucid one, it's a very big task already... <falktx> so I suggest a team PPA <falktx> users will appreciatte it <scott-work> falktx: i agree, users will agree with a unified ppa for studio applications <scott-work> arghh, 2nd "agree" should be "appreciate" <astraljava> +1 <falktx> scott-work: we should talk to AutoStatic too <scott-work> and possible philip5 as well <scott-work> i have a concern about trying to indicate that this is an "official" ubuntu studio ppa however if we are including applications that are not in the archives due to licensing issues <scott-work> i would also like to push updates back into debian so that they get into the archives as well <falktx> scott-work: there should be no licensing issues on the PPA, launchpad/canonical does not allow that <falktx> scott-work: btw, I have an external non-free repository... <falktx> (top secret!) <scott-work> falktx: lol, this channel logged by the way ;) <falktx> scott-work: it's ok <falktx> scott-work: the devs game me permission to put them on kxstudio <falktx> scott-work: and that means put them online on a repo... <falktx> hehehe <scott-work> i feel very strongly about providing a ubuntu studio ppa , even for an official repo, if nothing else as for updates/backports * holstein got busy for a minute <holstein> scott-work: you want to go for the 29th? <scott-work> phone call, be right back <falktx> have to go, bye guys! <holstein> falktx: laterx <falktx> oh, and holstein, I have a deb in my PPA with mumble+jack output <falktx> holstein: there's a patch in debian/patches <scott-work> back, trying to refinance our house <scott-work> rate is going from 5.96% to 4.625% :) <scott-work> holstein: 29th sounds great <scott-work> hmm falktx is gone already <holstein> w00t <holstein> yeah, we got 4.6 something fixed on ours <holstein> we were stoked <scott-work> i was going to tell falktx that nothing is stopping him, phillip5, autostatic and anyone else from making a an unofficial ubuntu studio team ppa <scott-work> they can all work together and even include things that are not in the archives <holstein> that would be handy <scott-work> holstein: yeah, hoping to save $100-200 a month on mortgage, that would be pretty sweet over 30 years :P <holstein> totally :) #ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-09 * persia doesn't understand all the fuss about making special PPAs: we have an archive for a reason: we should use it if we have "official" stuff. <ScottL> it's because it's immediate, you can update or backport almost immediately, but mainly i expect because applications can be hosted that can't be put into the official archives <ScottL> crimsun_, TheMuso: can either one of you give a quick explanation which direction you think audio permissions might be headed in future releases ? <ScottL> the catalyst for this question comes from this mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-September/002549.html <TheMuso> ScottL: Getting as much to use consolekit/rtkit as possible. * persia has concerns about the legality of distributing anything that can't be put into the official archives. <persia> For the immediacy, at least I wouldn't want to support anything that didn't have at least some control on updates: the processes in Ubuntu are designed to avoid support pain, not make it hard to support. <quadrispro> hi all <quadrispro> persia, no response from martin <quadrispro> I've tried to ping him yesterday, maybe he was busy <persia> I think he has sporadic access. Maybe email? <quadrispro> right <quadrispro> damn, launchpad has gone down <persia> For about 3 hours <quadrispro> ah! didn't know that, ok <quadrispro> I've uploaded a fixed version of jackbeat <quadrispro> it failed to build on {amd64,i386} <persia> Ouch! <quadrispro> persia, have you read my email about simple-scan in u-devel-discuss? * persia does so now <quadrispro> I know, I've sent it to the wrong ML... <persia> Why the wrong ML? <persia> Oh, yeah. That belonged on ubuntu-devel@ robert_ancell should not have done that. <quadrispro> maybe u-devel was the right ML <persia> And he just dropped off IRC 10 minutes back, so hard to twit about it right now. <persia> But yeah, continue with your merge: overwrite his work. <persia> He deserves no credit
{'channel': 'ubuntustudio-devel', 'month': 9}