#ubuntu-arb 2012-03-01 * ajmitch sees a submission called 'google office' in the queue - I'm sure this'd cause trademark issues #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-05 <wendar> I'd like to get that first lens pushed through <wendar> any meta thoughts on the repo layout? <wendar> should I send it to vote? <wendar> sounds like mhall119 has a stack to push through once we settle on the layout for the merged repos <wendar> mhall119: once we get through the list of Oneiric lenses, we can start on the Precise ones, have those lined up and ready to go before the Precise launch <mhall119> wendar: already have a list :) <mhall119> wendar: in fact, if you PM me your G+ email, I'll share the doc with you <wendar> cool, will do <wendar> mhall119: I'm assuming the music scopes are compatible with the default Music Lens <mhall119> wendar: I'm assuming so, yes <wendar> we can't do those with our merged repository strategy, will need to talk to the Music Lens developers on how they want to handle it <wendar> if they're okay with it, I'd say we do one merged source package for the collection of music-related scopes <wendar> the lens is a main package, which extras can depend on <ajmitch> wendar: right, I think that's a good idea & the layout you proposed looks good <stgraber> wendar: I'll "try" to have a look this afternoon, was planning on doing that over the weekend but ended up not being around much <ajmitch> stgraber: you're not the only one :) * ajmitch is feeling a bit guilty about wendar doing all the work this month <wendar> ajmitch: aw, it'll be someone else's turn next month :) <ajmitch> wendar: unity-lens-graphicdesign is a native package? (version is 0.1) <stgraber> yep, I think that makes sense considering it's a mix of multiple sources <stgraber> and 0.1 should ensure it's going to be lower to whatever might end up in the archive at some point <ajmitch> I'd have thought you'd want extras in the version at least <ajmitch> something to match how versioning is done for the other packages <ajmitch> if you really want, I believe you can have different versions for the binary package than the source package :) <stgraber> yeah you can can but it's black magic at this point ;) <ajmitch> true <ajmitch> it warped my mind when I saw it being done <stgraber> I guess 0.1~extra1~11.10 or similar could work (if dpkg doesn't explode telling us a nativ package shouldn't have such weird version number) <ajmitch> I don't think it should complain <ajmitch> I think dpkg even treats 0~0 as valid <ajmitch> so for this lens & scope set, they're all by the same author at the moment? <wendar> ajmitch: it's 0.1-0extras11.10.1~ppa1 in the PPA <wendar> ajmitch: maybe I didn't push that change to the remote repo <wendar> ajmitch: bzr builddeb refuses to accept extras version numbering <wendar> ajmitch: so I've been doing development with native version numbers, and changing it at the end before I push to the ppa <ajmitch> wendar: right, I should have checked the PPA as well, sorry :) <wendar> so the final version will be 0.1-0extras11.10.1 <ajmitch> it probably refuses to accept the - in the version <wendar> actually, what it complains about is combining "3.0 (native)" format with a non-native version <ajmitch> it may be worth changing it from 0.1-0extras11.10.1 to 0.1~extras~11.10.1 as stgraber suggested, for native packages <wendar> yeah, could be (worth the change to ~), but if we were going to change I'd rather change all over, so we don't have to explain two version number schemes to developers <wendar> they can't get our current scheme right, so I hesitate to introduce any more complexity <wendar> (or, to put it another way, since I'm the one setting the ARB versions anyway, it's not really a big deal to remember to use debuild for the final build with proper version numbers) <wendar> or, maybe we can talk to the bzr-builddeb folks about an exception for version numbers that match "extras" <wendar> ajmitch: oh, and yes, this lens and scopes are all by the same author, just originally developed as multiple separate packages <wendar> ajmitch: so, in the future, we can just tell the author to develop their lenses that way to begin with (and get quickly to create lens/scopes that way too) <ajmitch> wendar: ok <wendar> oh, and on guallet, I changed the format from "3.0 (native)" to "3.0 (quilt)", but it seemed to cause the developer more grief than it was worth. <wendar> "3.0 (native)" seems to be more approachable, more like the "my software is just a bundle" idea. <ajmitch> so any patches are applied inline? #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-06 <wendar> ajmitch: aye, patches inline, and submitted back to the developer. <ajmitch> wendar: alright, will vote on it & +1 it soon :) <cielak> ajmitch: may I ask how's going with reviewing harmonySEQ? :) #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-07 <ajmitch> cielak: after much pain & suffering with fluidsynth, alsa & various pieces, I got it to make some sound <ajmitch> I won't call it music ;) <ajmitch> cielak: sorry that I've not spent much time on it, about the only thing I can find with the packaging is that the postinst & postrm may not be needed <mhall119> wendar: ping <wendar> mhall119: pong <mhall119> wendar: looking at the arb ML, and there was a question about the versioning scheme for the graphic design lens, is that something the lens developer sets or something you guys will control in the package template? <wendar> mhall119: the developer can set it, but we can too, so we'll just do that before it goes out the door <wendar> mhall119: though, we've had packages shipping with purely native version numbers, so I'm inclined to publish this one under the current standard, and apply any changes in policy we agree on to future packages. <mhall119> wendar: is this something I should document for developers submitting lenses/scopes? <wendar> mhall119: yeah, we should create a brief wiki page for them with the whole repository layout <wendar> mhall119: basically "what to expect when you submit a lens/scope" <wendar> IIRC, quickly has a "package for arb" option <wendar> so, hopefully we can just get it generating the right files and formats, and then the developers won't have to think about it <mhall119> wendar: quickly has "submitubuntu" or something like that, but I think it needs some work <wendar> mhall119: aye, it does need some work. One of the things on my list is to submit some patches <wendar> interesting problem for the ARB: we do all our work on the current production release <wendar> but, can only get changes for Quickly into the development release <wendar> so, Quickly is always lagging behind <mhall119> wendar: I thought we weren't going to need ARB packaging for lenses and scopes though <mhall119> not from the developers that is <wendar> not a huge deal, since we can manually fix up the packages after they're submitted <wendar> mhall119: yeah, we'll do it all for them <wendar> mhall119: the packaging is very simple <mhall119> ok <wendar> mhall119: but ideally, down the road, Quickly will do it for them (or some other tool) <mhall119> thanks, I just wanted to make sure I understood ajmitch's concerns <wendar> mhall119: aye, Ubuntu/Debian has two styles of version numbers <wendar> mhall119: one for "packages with a tarball" and one for "packages without a tarball" * mhall119 is still trying to learn all of this <wendar> mhall119: yeah, a lot of this is arcane knowledge <wendar> mhall119: the real question with this version number thing is "do we protect developers from it?" <wendar> mhall119: or "is it better to start teaching them arcana early?" <mhall119> I'm of the "teach a man to fish" philosophy, personally <mhall119> but some people don't want to be fisherman, they just want to buy fillets at the grocery store <mhall119> and I think we should be flexible for those people too * cielak is away: Busy/Away <wendar> mhall119: I agree :) (some people just want fillets, and we have room for them too) * ajmitch was mostly arguing for native versioning because the lenses & scopes are often not going to be by the same author, and the source package is put together by the ARB <ajmitch> wendar: I hope I haven't held up the upload of the lens package, I don't want to do that <wendar> ajmitch: nah, I'm busy on my astrophysics homework today <wendar> ajmitch: but, if you're comfortable, I'll go ahead and upload it with the existing version number scheme tomorrow, and we can figure out variants later? <wendar> ajmitch: we've got 3 positive votes, which is what's needed to go ahead <wendar> though, I would like a quick double-check from stgraber specifically on the apparmor profile <wendar> profiles (one for each lens and scope) <ajmitch> wendar: sure, I'm fine with that #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-08 <dpm> good morning all <ajmitch> hi dpm <dpm> hey ajmitch :) #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-12 <highvoltage> good morning <highvoltage> are there any ARB votes outstanding? <stgraber> I don't think so, the graphic lens has been published last week <ajmitch> highvoltage: no, are there any apps you've been looking at lately that are close? <highvoltage> ajmitch: I was just catching up on emails the last week and making sure that there isn't anything particular that needs attention before marking them as read <ajmitch> ok, will try & get something for you to vote on then :) <ajmitch> stgraber: for postinst/postrm in apps, how much of that is not allowed, when it's just standard commands like update-mime-database, update-desktop-database, etc? <stgraber> ajmitch: if it's auto-generated I'm usually fine with it (as we need that for apparmor anyway) <ajmitch> it's not added in the #DEBHELPEr# part, but looks to be boilerplate from elsewhere <ajmitch> I don't think it'll hurt anything, I thought you might know better than I if we had something disallowing it :) <stgraber> I seem to remember some documentation explicitly saying that maintainer scripts aren't allowed <stgraber> but we accepted auto-generated ones so far and can probably do an exception for boiler plates one <ajmitch> right, that's what I thought <ajmitch> if that's the case, them I might put harmonyseq up for you to check & vote on <ajmitch> also tagplayer. I found where I was going wrong with patching it ;) <ajmitch> stgraber: david pitkin said you'd been discussing bugs in the developer portal? * ajmitch was just asking him about some of the bugs regarding needs info states, he said to sync up with you <stgraber> well, I haven't talked to these guys in over a month ;) <ajmitch> right, so his idea of 'recent' is a bit blurry ;) <stgraber> yeah ;) <stgraber> my last discussion with him was on what's acceptable for the ARB and led to our current guidelines wiki page <ajmitch> right * ajmitch was just asking him about bugs that have sat without comments & which are sort of important #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-14 <wendar> mhall119: Mark Tully's music scopes have been updated to use Unity 5 (the version in precise) in his bzr branches, do you know if he wants to submit them for Oneiric or Precise? <ajmitch> precise <ajmitch> I don't see unity 5 being backported to oneiric <ajmitch> since the API's not compatible, there'd be no point submitting the packages for oneiric, I think <wendar> agreed, I just wasn't sure if he wanted to get an older version of his scopes into Oneiric, or go full steam ahead with the latest code for precise <wendar> If Oneiric, then it'd be the first thing I work on next <wendar> If Precise, then we need the precise pocket open before we can launch it <wendar> if it's all the same for him, I'd suggest going ahead with precise <wendar> since Oneiric isn't an LTS, most people are going to upgrade <wendar> yeah, the original code he submitted was compatible with oneiric <wendar> it's more of an efficiency thing <wendar> (with apps I don't mind packaging them for oneiric now, since I imagine the code will update to precise with little work) <ajmitch> you could ask him about it, I guess :) <wendar> mhall119: and if not that one, are there any other lenses or scopes from your list that you want to get through before we move on to precise ones? <wendar> ajmitch: I'll do that too <mhall119> wendar: there may be a prior version that is for oneiric that we can use for that <mhall119> wendar: which graphic design scopes were submitted? <wendar> mhall119: yeah, it's really a question of what the author wants. I'm happy to do either oneiric or precise at this point, but oneiric won't be around much longer so may not be worth the effort. <mhall119> well it'll be around for a year still <wendar> mhall119: 4 graphic design scopes were published, for ColourLovers, Dribbble, Iconfinder, and DeviantArt <wendar> mhall119: aye, but if we need work done, will he want to do it for oneiric? <mhall119> wendar: that I don't know <mhall119> wendar: did the book lens get into USC for Oneiric? <wendar> mhall119: I haven't seen it submitted, is it ready to go? <mhall119> According to my spreadsheet it is <mhall119> it's davidcalle's though <mhall119> not mine <wendar> do you want to ping him? or would you like me to? <wendar> If the code is ready to go, we could get it up in a week. <mhall119> wendar: that would be great, I can ping him tomorrow (He's in Spain, IIRC, so pretty late for him) <wendar> mhall119: okay, great! <mhall119> he also has a photos lens and scopes that would be a good candidate to go <wendar> sounds good <mhall119> wendar: I'll let you know tomorrow, or just have him start submitting whatever he has ready for Oneiric <wendar> I'd like to get Oneiric scopes pushed through as quickly as possible <wendar> so they have time out in the public eye before people start upgrading to Precise <mhall119> me too, if we can get through all of the Oneiric ones before we open it up for Precise, that would be fantastic <ajmitch> how many are there? <wendar> ajmitch: only 4 music scopes in the ARB queue <wendar> ajmitch: but mhall119 has a list of oneiric and precise lenses/scopes in a spreadsheet <wendar> ajmitch: in various stages of completion, so I don't have a quick count of how many could be published soon in Oneiric <wendar> ajmitch: I'd guess fewer than 5 <wendar> (that is, fewer than 5 source packages managed by the ARB, with maybe 4 individual scopes/lenses in each) <ajmitch> alright * ajmitch just had an idea for another lens last night, but has a few too many other things to do right now :) <wendar> I know the feeling :) <ajmitch> I need to get ARB stuff out of the way before I start anything new, I think <ajmitch> the queue still has a few old entries to be looked at <wendar> ajmitch: aye, and I'm still not sure we're getting old apps back in the queue once the developer responds to our questions <wendar> ajmitch: which makes me less inclined to bump them quickly back to the developer for changes <ajmitch> I don't think we are, i emailed David Pitkin & he said he'd get those bugs looked at <wendar> ajmitch: cool <wendar> ajmitch: one quick one you could do is rejecting TerraView <wendar> ajmitch: it's enormous <ajmitch> yeah, I should do <ajmitch> that's one we'd talked about & I was going to point them to the debian GIS team <wendar> ajmitch: yup, that's a good idea <mhall119> wendar: I have 11 "ready", but some won't be getting submitted <wendar> mhall119: okay, makes sense <mhall119> most notably the porn lens and piratebay torrent scope <wendar> mhall119: ah, yeah, we already talked about the porn lens <wendar> mhall119: and, yeah, I think we'd have to skip the piratebay one too <mhall119> yeah <ajmitch> are there lenses written at the moment that authenticate to a webservice? <wendar> ajmitch: not that I've seen <wendar> ajmitch: it'd be possible, but they the Unity Lens interface wouldn't provide any way to enter credentials, so the app would have to do that separately <wendar> ajmitch: maybe with a simple "configuration" app that ships with the Lens <ajmitch> wendar: I've seen suggestions to use gnome-online-accounts <ajmitch> which helps for storing them, I haven't looked at it for getting the initial auth tokens <wendar> ajmitch: yeah, it makes sense to use an established piece for storing credentials <ajmitch> wendar: my grand idea last night was for a trello lens, since we're using it a bit for organising pycon :) <wendar> ajmitch: ah, that could be quite cool <ajmitch> yes, I just have to actually do it, after my other obligations * ajmitch will push tagplayer & harmonyseq for voting tonight if possible <mhall119> wendar: ping <wendar> mhall119: pong <mhall119> wendar: could you do me a favor and email or ping me when a scope or lens makes it to the software center? I'd like to promote them once they land <wendar> mhall119: sure <mhall119> thanks <ajmitch> wendar: just looking at LEDS now... <ajmitch> looks simple enough, the author was considerate enough to even put comments in both spanish & english :) <ajmitch> however a test build failed in pbuilder: <ajmitch> dh_auto_clean <ajmitch> Traceback (most recent call last): <ajmitch> File "setup.py", line 4, in <module> <ajmitch> from DistUtilsExtra.command import * <ajmitch> ImportError: No module named DistUtilsExtra.command <wendar> I pushed an update to the ppa <wendar> not to the repo yet <ajmitch> ah right :) <wendar> pushed now, update your checkout <ajmitch> great, that build-depends looks better <ajmitch> wendar: sorry, got distracted by -motu - it builds fine now, all files look to be in the right place <ajmitch> application UI could do with a lot of HIG love, but I'll +1 this, will reply on mailing list :) <wendar> ajmitch: so, I sent out LEO-Compiler with a "request for more information" and it popped back up in the list when the author replied <wendar> ajmitch: that means the comment/response bit is working, at least in the general case <wendar> ajmitch: but, it hasn't been working for LEDs <ajmitch> right, that part works, but does the state change in the myapps queue? <ajmitch> hm, intresting <wendar> ajmitch: so maybe there's something specific about that app <ajmitch> I've pushed harmonyseq to the staging PPA & ot my branch <ajmitch> s/ot/to/ <wendar> ajmitch: well, the LEDs problem was that it didn't reappear in the queue at all <ajmitch> LEO compiler reappeared? <wendar> ah, cool (on harmonyseq) <wendar> yup, LEO compiler just popped back into the queue when they replied <ajmitch> yeah, one thing I'm not entirely sure on is whether I can use an .svg for XB-Icon in debian/control <wendar> it has to be a .png <ajmitch> ok <stgraber> so far, we assumed that wouldn't work :) best to go with .png indeed <wendar> I tried .svg too, it didn't work and stgraber told me only .png works <ajmitch> there's no 64x64 png, sadly <stgraber> oh, ok, then we KNOW it doesn't work ;) <wendar> not even in the MyApps pages? <ajmitch> knowing my luck, there will be there :) <ajmitch> and there is, I'll use that... :) <ajmitch> silly me, I used the screenshot from there <wendar> yeah, I've done that several times too, only realized as an afterthought that there already was a .png in the MyApps submission <ajmitch> tagplayer has a 64x64 icon there & a screenshot, I just need to use a different tarball that what I was building with, so the patches applie (or I use a native package) <ajmitch> so I'll finish that tonight, sorry I've taken so long with it <wendar> ajmitch: great! <wendar> should I refresh the review shifts? <wendar> i.e. are people finding it useful to have a scheduled time? <wendar> I haven't had any developers popping up during the shift, so it's more a matter of personal value to the reviewers <ajmitch> wendar: I haven't been sticking to mine very well <ajmitch> though that's probably more due to my time management than anything <wendar> well, I kind of figure the value of the review shifts is all in whether it's a help for time management <wendar> if they don't actually help with time management, and just make volunteers feel guilty for not doing the shift, then they're not valuable :) <wendar> making volunteer activities fun is the magic silver bullet <ajmitch> yeah, it is, and also the hardest thing to do sometimes :) <wendar> yup :) #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-15 <mhall119> wendar: ajmitch: stgraber: ping <mhall119> Someone on G+ is asking for some clarification about what his package should put in /opt/ <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/108728447943307421833/posts <mhall119> can one of you give him an answer, of give me the answer and I'll give it to him <mhall119> http://paste.ubuntu.com/884992/ is you can't see that <stgraber> mhall119: in most cases, it's simply everything except the .desktop file <stgraber> mhall119: we also now allow /usr/share/doc/<packagename> but it's debhelper's default anyway so I don't think I ever saw someone actually put them in /opt (we always had to do it for them) <mhall119> stgraber: so the binary goes in /opt/ too? <mhall119> and the .desktop just points to it there? <stgraber> mhall119: yes <mhall119> stgraber: how about icons? Do they all go into /opt/ too, and if so does GTK know to find them there if you reference them by name instead of path? <stgraber> mhall119: "everything" :) <mhall119> ok <mhall119> thanks, I'll let him know <stgraber> mhall119: you need to put the path in the .desktop for it to work <mhall119> for Exec only, or Exec and Icon? <stgraber> both <stgraber> gtk doesn't know to look in /opt and we don't really want it to either <stgraber> the whole idea behind using /opt is to avoid having any of them automatically found/loaded by the OS unless you're calling them by their path <mhall119> ok <wendar> mhall119: there are more details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines <wendar> I forgot to ask about chairs for the next meeting at the end of last month's meeting <wendar> (I've added it back into the end of the agenda, so I'll remember in the future) <wendar> Anyone want to volunteer? * ajmitch checked next meeting date <ajmitch> we're keeping it at the same UTC time? <wendar> yeah, same time <ajmitch> ok, I can do it then <wendar> cool, thanks! <ajmitch> next month I'll be back to UTC+12 <wendar> love those international daylight saving time shifts :) <ajmitch> yeah, it's just great :) <wendar> I recovered some lost action items <ajmitch> oh, what'd we miss? <wendar> apparently our "emergency" meeting in January wiped out several pending action items <wendar> I had one to ask about the deprecation cycle for python-support <ajmitch> ok, I did follow up with dpitkin at least :) <wendar> (I've just emailed doko and barry to check in on that) <wendar> lfaraone had one about python-support in Quickly <wendar> actually, in python-distutils-extra, which Quickly uses <wendar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/+bug/894582 <ajmitch> I asked about #927588, #915902, #926032 to see if he'd prioritise getting those 3 fixed <wendar> you had one about asking (someone, I'm not sure who) about ARB packages depending on backports <wendar> but, I'm pretty sure the answer to that one is "no" <wendar> at least, if it came to a vote, I'd be against ARB packages depending on backports <ajmitch> right, I asked broder & michag about the state of that, it's ok for runtime dependencies, but there's a LP bug that blocks build-dependencies <wendar> ah, okay <wendar> I remember, it was a question of whether it was even possible for ARB packages to depend on backports <wendar> should we keep a note of that somewhere? <ajmitch> right, but we mostly wanted it for the case of new libraries being added via backports, iirc <wendar> yup <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/888665 is the LP bug, it's due to it using an ancient forked sbuild <wendar> so, to say if it's safe, and non-disruptive, we could have an ARB depend on a backported library <wendar> if it's a new library, and not an updated version of an existing library in the old release <ajmitch> it'd just be hard to build against that library <wendar> so, at this point we'd be stuck with runtime python libraries <wendar> and no build-time C, etc libraries <ajmitch> actually a new library would likely work <ajmitch> since the PPA can have backports dependencies turned on, and the backports version would be the only version to satisfy the requirement, it ought to work :) <wendar> i.e. it's hard to give a one-size-fits all answer <ajmitch> yeah <wendar> How about this addition to the ARB guidelines: right after "If your app depends on external libraries, please make sure that your app runs on the current versions shipped in Ubuntu." <ajmitch> we do currently have "Applications must be able to be built with tools & libraries in the Ubuntu archive. Apps may bundle additional libraries they depend on, but may not include new versions of already packaged libraries." <wendar> we add "(We're open to considering dependencies on backported libraries, on a case-by-case basis, only if the backport is a new library and not an updated version of an existing library.) <ajmitch> ok <wendar> that leaves it open for the devs to either bundle the library or backport it <wendar> with the same effect, they can only depend on existing libraries, or a new library <wendar> but not updated versions of existing libraries <ajmitch> that's fair - no depending on a new version of Qt & boost :) * wendar shudders ;) <ajmitch> it'd be nice to get the LP bug fixed, but it's not a simple fix that just anyone can pick up & do, I suspect <ajmitch> wendar: so I didn't really get round to doing any ARB work last night (wasn't feeling great), but I've pushed the icon change I did yesterday to the staging PPA & my branch, if you have time to take a look <ajmitch> once we vote on it I'll need to know the right buttons to push in myapps to get it published :) <wendar> ajmitch: sure, I'll take a look <ajmitch> thanks <wendar> ajmitch: in override_dh_gencontrol, you do need to keep that cp line <wendar> ajmitch: it's obtuse, but what that does is copy the image *outside* the package directory <wendar> ajmitch: so it can be added to the package metadata <wendar> (stgraber had to fix one of my earlier packages) <ajmitch> right, that is a bit special <ajmitch> but this is why I'm checking with you first, thanks :) <ajmitch> it does mean I have to bump the ppa version again, which is a bit of a pain <wendar> you can use $CURDIR <wendar> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~allison/+junk/extras-framingham/revision/13 <ajmitch> in which case I ought to put it in the debian/directory as well <wendar> I like the way you've used patches for all changes outside the debian/ directory <wendar> in the debian/changelog, merge his changes and yours into one changelog entry (since there's only one Extras release) <wendar> you can note who did what with [ Author Name ] <wendar> and a quick scan of postinst and postrm, I wonder if they could be removed? <wendar> we don't technically allow custom maintainer scripts, but this looks like standard desktop stuff <wendar> probably automatically generated <ajmitch> this is what I was checking with stgraber - they're boilerplate postinst/postrm <wendar> with debhelper 8, a lot of stuff that used to be in generated maintainer scripts is now handled automatically behind the scenes <ajmitch> yeah, I was debating whether they'd be needed at all due to the non-standard directories <wendar> not sure that's the case with these specific pieces, but seems worth checking <wendar> ah, yeah, I noticed one of the commands was acting on /usr/share/icons/gnome <wendar> which we don't modify <wendar> so, that one could certainly go <wendar> the mime database is modifying /usr/share/mime, which we don't modify <ajmitch> right, stripped out all but #DEBHELPER# <wendar> let's see, update-desktop-database modifies the cache of MIME types handled by desktop files, so that can go too <wendar> cool, yeah, makes sense <wendar> ajmitch: overall, it looks great. I'd +1 it. <ajmitch> good, it's nearly all cielak's work, so thank him for a good submission :) <wendar> thanks, cielak! <cielak> no problem, did my best to get it as good as I could ;) <ajmitch> cielak: it does make our lives easier, I'll put this up for vote & we should be able to get it uploaded :) <cielak> nice! thanks for handling that :) * ajmitch could really do with some more RAM, running a couple of VMs doesn't help when firefox & chrome are both open <wendar> ajmitch: yeah, both firefox and chrome are total memory hogs, very annoying <ajmitch> especially the way I use them, where I often can't see the icons on the chrome tabs because I have so many open :) <ajmitch> wendar: just checking, you marked the next meeting as the 23rd rather than the 30th? <wendar> ajmitch: well, that's what Ubuntu Fridge says <wendar> ajmitch: but it could be wrong <ajmitch> that seems a bit broken, it's meant to be the last friday of the month <wendar> ajmitch: is it supposed to be... ah yea <ajmitch> who sets up the fridge calendar entry? <wendar> Fridge won't let me do anything more complicated than "3rd Friday" <ajmitch> great :) <wendar> anyone who has access can edit it <ajmitch> it doesn't allow 5th friday? <wendar> go ahead and update the wiki page <wendar> I suspect it would just drop off the calendar when there is no 5th friday <wendar> what we want is the -1th friday :) <wendar> the 30th actually works better for me this month, I won't have to rush out after the meeting to drive to Seattle * ajmitch can see where to add an event, but it looks to only be editable by its creator, sorry :) <wendar> ajmitch: I think I actually can't edit it anymore, I only had admin priviledges on my canonical google account, which is gone now <wendar> ajmitch: but, I'll find someone else to edit it <ajmitch> now that is a pain <ajmitch> your membership application is coming up in a meeting today, isn't it? <wendar> ah, yeah <wendar> if I get membership I'll see about getting calendar editing access again <wendar> or, you or stgraber could get it * ajmitch shall try & be around at meeting time <ajmitch> stgraber: thanks for looking at harmonySEQ - the postinst/postrm aren't empty unless debhelper is not putting anything in them - I thought that I'd leave in the #DEBHELPER# tags for now <wendar> ajmitch: it's probably safe to remove them entirely <wendar> ajmitch: I've been erring on the side of "rip it out" for ARB apps, just on the general principle of "they're supposed to be dumb and simple" <ajmitch> fair enough <ajmitch> I don't think there are any dh calls in the package at this time which put anything in postinst * ajmitch shall see if he can get it to ~ppa99 before it even makes it into extras <ajmitch> I see you've got a couple of other testimonials from some well-known ubuntu contributors now #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-16 <stgraber> wendar: now fix the fridge :P <ajmitch> now apply to the DMB! <ajmitch> since you're an exception to the 'every ARB member must be in ubuntu-dev' rule at the moment :) <ajmitch> stgraber: just looking at your reply to my vote email, just changing myapps.developer.ubuntu.com to software-center.ubuntu.com looks to be valid, and I can keep the rest of the URL the same? <ajmitch> i.e. https://software-center.ubuntu.com/site_media/screenshots/2012/01/hseq1_1.png will suffice? <stgraber> yep <ajmitch> ok * ajmitch just has to break the habit of spelling it 'centre' <stgraber> ;) <mhall119> wendar: do you know if OMG!Words! has been submitted through MyApps yet? <wendar> mhall119: not that I've seen <wendar> mhall119: it's not in the queue now <ajmitch> that sounds like an interesting submission, who's it by? <mhall119> ok, thanks <wendar> okay, calendar for the next meeting is fixed <wendar> if anyone wants edit access on the new entry, let me know your google account address and I'll add you as an invited guest with edit privs <ajmitch> wendar: gregory37@example.net <ajmitch> & thanks for fixing it :) <wendar> ajmitch: added you with edit privs <ajmitch> thank you <wendar> (to April and onward, March is outside the repeating event, because it's the 5th Friday instead of the 4th friday) <ajmitch> I see there was a 'Downloader' submission - that name's a bit generic <wendar> ajmitch: yeah, might need to be bounced back for refinement <wendar> ajmitch: I'm not getting any sound out of harmonyseq, but it might just be my sound settings or something <ajmitch> it needs a midi synth to output to <ajmitch> I used fluidsynth & hooked it up with aconnectgui <wendar> ajmitch: ah, okay * ajmitch had made the screenshot url change & removed the postrm/postinst in the branch, haven't pushed that to the staging ppa though <wendar> ajmitch: we can suggest some documentation on that, but it's a usability issue, not a code/security issue, so I'll give it a +1 <wendar> it's got a decent interface, familiar from other midi sequencers <ajmitch> yeah, it seems quite nice, code looks clean as well * ajmitch has almost got flights sorted for UDS now <ajmitch> though one option was dunedin->christchurch->sydney->san francisco :) <stgraber> sounds complicated ;) * stgraber has montreal->san francisco, but well, I'm on the same continent :) <ajmitch> stgraber: flying 3 hours west & then flying from australia to usa? <ajmitch> it was < 1 euro cheaper than flying from auckland ;) <ajmitch> so maybe I'll get in trouble for not picking the cheapest flights :) <stgraber> I doubt that ;) <stgraber> otherwise they'd hate me for taking the direct flight when I could have had 3 connections and maybe save $50 :) <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> I think I did over 50% of my syncs to precise last night <ajmitch> about 35 or so, until it was time for bed #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-19 <highvoltage> wendar: you don't work for Canonical!? (for some reason I thought you did) <highvoltage> ah I guess it's not completely irrational of me to have thought so since even the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Randal) lists you as working for Canonical :) <wendar> highvoltage: I did for a couple of years <highvoltage> so you're part of https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical now :) <highvoltage> "People who do not work for Canonical, but often get mistaken for someone who does." <highvoltage> (oh I see you're already a member, d'oh) * ajmitch should join that team <ajmitch> though I don't often get mistaken for working for canonical :) <cielak> ajmitch: oh, so you say you are not a canonical employee? I'd never guess that :-) <ajmitch> :P <cielak> :P * ajmitch needs to round up more votes for harmonySEQ, will post to the list that those maintainer scripts were stripped out & the screenshot url fixed <ajmitch> I don't want it to sit in limbo any further <cielak> ajmitch: I used to wonder if we'll get it published within a year since my original submission ;) <ajmitch> cielak: when was that? <cielak> ajmitch: 6th March 2011 :) <ajmitch> then no, we're obviously past that date :P <cielak> seems so :P <cielak> anyway, I am happy to see we're close to the end, however much time did it take :) <ajmitch> we're trying to speed up, honest :) <cielak> well, I am seriously worried about other devs <cielak> and the general impression one can have when using the myapps portal <cielak> (re?)gaining good reputation will need lots of work from ARB's side <ajmitch> yes, it will <cielak> well, if you will ever need some more human resources, I'm willing to help and open for your suggestions :) <ajmitch> thanks #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-20 <dpm> good morning all <ajmitch> hi dpm <dpm> hey ajmitch <highvoltage> goor morning <highvoltage> *good <wendar> mhall119: the community lens was out for changes, is it ready now for re-review? <mhall119> wendar: no, I haven't had a change to make the requested changes to it yet <wendar> mhall119: okay, I'll add a comment to it <wendar> thanks <mhall119> wendar: it's currently precise-only anyway <wendar> mhall119: yup, no rush <mhall119> has david calle submitted any more? <wendar> mhall119: not yet <wendar> mhall119: I'm nearly done packaging the scopes for the music lens <ajmitch> wendar: have you been re-poking people who've submitted applications? <wendar> ajmitch: like, reminding them that we haven't heard from them in a while? <wendar> ajmitch: not yet, but I was thinking about doing that for guallet today <wendar> it's really close to ready to go <ajmitch> I was just seeing the flood of information needed requests, they were all pending review/ <ajmitch> ? <wendar> yeah, that's me * ajmitch had talked to the hacketyhack submitter a couple of days ago about shoes & offered help <wendar> ajmitch: cool <wendar> I didn't see any activity in the comments <ajmitch> sorry I hadn't copied it in there <wendar> I always forget too :) <wendar> he will have to wait until P+1 to get into Ubuntu, unfortunately <ajmitch> yeah <wendar> but, he could get into Debian quite quickly <ajmitch> once we learn what the name is :) <wendar> as soon as shoes is updated <ajmitch> thanks for the harmonyseq vote on the list, too <wendar> thanks for shepherding it through, it's looking great <wendar> hmmm... anyone have any ideas where this launchpad branch went? lp:~app-review-board/ubuntu/oneiric/unity-lens-graphicdesign/trunk/ <wendar> Okay, it's https://code.launchpad.net/~app-review-board versus https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board <wendar> but the packaging-tools branch shows up on both <ajmitch> because lp:~app-review-board/ubuntu/oneiric/unity-lens-graphicdesign/trunk/ is against ubuntu <wendar> ajmitch: so, launchpad is setting the project based on the path <wendar> ajmitch: the bigger question is, do we want these branches for ARB maintained lens/scope packages to be tagged as Ubuntu project? <wendar> ajmitch: or, should we use bzr paths that avoid the auto-categorization? <ajmitch> lp branches are always lp:~person/project/branch_name, I think we make them be under the ubuntu-app-review-board project rather than ubuntu/release <ajmitch> mostly because these are for extras <wendar> ajmitch: makes sense, I'll move them over <wendar> ajmitch: but, I'll keep the Ubuntu release name in the path for sanity <wendar> so, lp:~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/oneiric/unity-lens-graphicdesign <wendar> because there's a decent chance we may be releasing an update to the Oneiric version of the lens, even after we've moved on to the Precise version of the lens <ajmitch> can you name the branch like that? * ajmitch assumed that you could only name a release with a distro in LP branches <wendar> hmmm... I get a "Permission denied" error when I try to push any branch with "oneiric" in the path <wendar> I'll just have to encode it in the name of the branch <wendar> We've now got lp:~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/unity-lens-graphicdesign-oneiric and lp:~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/unity-scopes-music-extras-oneiric <ajmitch> alright, thanks <ajmitch> I'll set aside some time this weekend to attack the queue & try & catch up on where things are at <ajmitch> as a bonus it's a 3-day weekend again :) <ajmitch> wendar: yes, I *finally* dealt with terraview, what others should I look at? :) <wendar> ajmitch: awesome! <wendar> I feel worst about the oldest ones <wendar> it'd be nice to get them either published, or rejected <ajmitch> yep <wendar> whichever is appropriate <wendar> pac, TetraCity, or Qoobar? <ajmitch> like pac, I know that was sitting around on LP for quite awhile <wendar> yeah, sounds good <ajmitch> the feeback on that was problematic <wendar> I don't recall, was it too large/complex? <ajmitch> " Your "source package" contains some binaries (/opt/pac/lib/ex/vte32/auto/Gnome2/Vte at least), this shouldn't be the case. - Your source package also includes .deb files in /opt/pac/res, this looks wrong. <ajmitch> " <wendar> or, security concerns around passwords and connections? <wendar> oooh, packaging problems <ajmitch> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/179/feedback/ indicates that he couldn't find those binaries anywhere <ajmitch> well, except on getdeb.net <wendar> so, he's got dependencies that aren't in Ubuntu <wendar> are they small, or likely to be added to Debian at some point? <ajmitch> I'll need to pull apart the package to see <ajmitch> it's hard when he's included them as binary .so files <wendar> he's not even pulling in the source... blech <ajmitch> right, and they're some libraries for libvte which is a core package for ubuntu-desktop * ajmitch can't pull enough info out with objdump <wendar> hmmmm... it's a terminal emulator widget <ajmitch> yep <wendar> Technically, this did come in before we required a PPA, but I'm leaning toward reject. <ajmitch> libvte is definitely in ubuntu, but I can't tell how different the one he's packaged is (apart from a large size difference in the .so) <wendar> If you're inclined toward due-diligence, I'd say try running the software using the Ubuntu version of the library, and if it works go ahead and package it. <wendar> Otherwise, reject it on the grounds that software has to work on the current version of all dependencies in the current release of Ubuntu. <ajmitch> I feel bad doing so, but we really can't ship unknown binaries in source packages like that <wendar> Yeah <wendar> And, don't feel bad, it's part of the policy. <wendar> We're not allowed to ship updated versions of standard system libraries. <ajmitch> I feel bad about the time between last feedback & rejection :) <wendar> even if he included the source, we couldn't do it. <wendar> yeah, me too <wendar> but, we're doing better on that now <ajmitch> mostly your work <wendar> You gave a great apologetic message to the TerraView developer, that tone really helps. <wendar> And, so does the suggestions for what to do next. <ajmitch> that's why I took so long to respond <wendar> Yup, it's worth taking the time to phrase kind rejection messages, it makes a huge difference in the developer experience. (And in whether they're likely to learn and do better from it, or give up in frustration.) <ajmitch> so it looks like libgnome2-vte-perl was on getdeb.net but is no longer there <wendar> I think most of what I'm doing at the moment is trailblazing. Setting up easy, repeatable patterns for future apps. <wendar> Ah, so the source isn't even available anymore. <wendar> Maybe dropped when it made it in to the live distro? <ajmitch> there's no perl vte bindings in precise <ajmitch> do you know the state of gobject introspection & perl? <ajmitch> if I can suggest an alternative way to use the system libvte, I won't feel so bad rejecting :) <wendar> AFAIK, Perl is farther behind than Python in support for gtk3 <wendar> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.gtk%2B.perl/12474 <wendar> ah, wait http://search.cpan.org/~tsch/Gtk3-0.004/ <ajmitch> right, he's the author of the vte-perl bindings tshipped as binaries in pac <wendar> then maybe suggest to the pac developer to get in touch with Torsten? <ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=647711 <ajmitch> so as of a week ago, there's progress in debian <wendar> excellent. So, that's something to say: watch the progress of the bug, and use the new versions of the libraries when they come out <ajmitch> ok, have added notes on that to my todo list, I won't write it up just yet #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-21 <wendar> weird, I'm getting a whole bunch of errors like "Err http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/" from the staging PPA <wendar> "Unable to connect to ftpmaster.internal" <ajmitch> ask in #launchpad, it sounds like problems internal to them <dpm> good morning all <ajmitch> hi dpm <dpm> heya ajmitch <cielak> ajmitch: do I get it right, or after having gotten three '+1's harmonySEQ should be ready to be published soon? <cielak> or something else still needs to be done? <ajmitch> cielak: yes <ajmitch> I just need to have time to upload it, which I didn't have much of last night :) <ajmitch> so probably today <cielak> nice! :) #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-22 <ajmitch> stgraber: do you know what junk do I need to fill in on the myapps review screen when approving an app? * ajmitch just wants to know if it actually uses the archive root/archive id there :) <stgraber> ajmitch: you need to enter something unique in the PPA field, AFAIK it's not used after that for ARB apps <wendar> the PPA has to be a real PPA (I generally just use staging) <wendar> but the "key" can be a random string <wendar> I generally just randomly type letters and numbers on the keyboard <ajmitch> wendar: it complained that there was already an application with that archive id, it seems to want the PPA string to be unique <wendar> I encountered that too, trying to remember how I got around it <ajmitch> as much as I'd like to use staging for all apps, it seems a bit broken to require a different PPA for every app * ajmitch shall file bugs :) <wendar> because it also checks that the text is a valid PPA * wendar looking at apps I recently launched <ajmitch> thanks <wendar> Archive root: <wendar> http://extras.ubuntu.com/ <wendar> Archive identifier: <wendar> garbage/garbage <wendar> Archive signing key: <wendar> garbage <wendar> Uploaded version: <wendar> 0.1-0extras11.10.1 <wendar> That's from Framingham calculator <ajmitch> heh <ajmitch> and it didn't check that it was a valid ppa? <wendar> It's checking that it matches the general text patter of a valid PPA, but not checking that the PPA exists. <ajmitch> great <wendar> Because the way commercial apps work, it creates the PPA when they launch. <ajmitch> thanks for that, I'll approve & upload soon <ajmitch> wendar: how's the music lense going? <wendar> ajmitch: done except for a problem with apparmor profiles <ajmitch> anything serious? <wendar> ajmitch: the author didn't add access to the music databases to the profiles, so I need to add that <ajmitch> ok <wendar> I can probably get them up this afternoon <wendar> (up for vote, that is) <ajmitch> fwiw, I tried compiling conquests a couple of days ago on oneiric & precise, and it failed, so I need to give feedback to the author about that <ajmitch> apart from that, it's already in a PPA (for maverick) & uses a simple dh7-style rules file, so should be easy to fix up <wendar> ah, so just updated dependencies or something like that <ajmitch> or a stricter gcc <ajmitch> I just took a look because it looked cool :) <ajmitch> I'll still try& work down from the top of the list over the weekend <wendar> cool <wendar> I'll be away over the weekend, but back on Monday <ajmitch> we'll see how many more we can get pushed to extras.u.c this week, then we'll need to look at targetting them to precise soon <ajmitch> something to talk about at the meeting next week <cielak> ajmitch: I see harmonyseq is all done now, right? great, great thanks for your work! <ajmitch> cielak: thank you for your excellent submission :) <cielak> I guess it should appear in the USC within several hours? <ajmitch> I hope so <cielak> ajmitch: one more question: how do I get it now to precise, when the ARB will start working on submissions to precise? <cielak> shall I re-send it, will it be done automatically, or anyhow else? <ajmitch> cielak: 'soon' is all I can say, it won't be done automatically <ajmitch> we'll probably work that out next week <cielak> will I have to package it again for precise, or do you take care of these details? <ajmitch> it'll pretty much be exactly the same package, but with a different version in debian/changelog <ajmitch> I don't think you'll have much you need to do <cielak> likely, as far as I know there is no difference in dependencies <ajmitch> there aren't, it worked fine for me on precise <cielak> ah :) <cielak> well, thanks again! <ajmitch> if I've made any mistakes with the upload, I'll just re-push to the PPA :) * ajmitch just has to wait for it to build in the PPA <cielak> the queue is now 4 hours for amd64 and 1 hour 50 mins for i386 <cielak> so it shouldn't be too quick, I guess <cielak> :) <stgraber> ajmitch: let me fix that <ajmitch> stgraber: fix what? <stgraber> fixed <ajmitch> the build score? <stgraber> yeah <ajmitch> ok, thanks :) <stgraber> np, feel free to ping me when you have something that needs some bumping (as long as it's not openoffice, kernel, ... ) <ajmitch> sure, I was just going to be patient since I'm at work right now <cielak> ajmitch: it seems to have successfully built <cielak> but it does not put it to extras, right? <ajmitch> iirc that should happen automatically, but not straight away <cielak> ah right :) <cielak> well, gotta go, it's quite late in my TZ, will check that out tomorrow <cielak> good night all! #ubuntu-arb 2012-03-23 <ajmitch> sigh, looks like I'll have to reject zero ballistics due to licensing - even once I get the source I see it depends on a library that's free only for non-commercial use or reneues under $100K <cielak> ajmitch: there is one tiny thing that would need fixing <cielak> the description field in USC lost its formatting <cielak> the original text I have sent contained newlines, which seems to be deleted <cielak> this causes the paragraphs to merge, and the feature list is completely unreadable <cielak> would you please mind correcting that some time? :) <ajmitch> sigh, I guess that's the software centre being special <ajmitch> since 'apt-cache show' displays the
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