#ubuntu-website 2009-02-02 <qense> hello <rxMokka> hi guys :D anyone around thats familiar with the implementation of ubuntu.com's drupal theme? <rxMokka> I'm trying to detect updates to any one of these pages, in an efficient way(other than full download would be prefered)... but one seem to have last-modified header <rxMokka> "http://www.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/2/0","http://www.ubuntu.com/usn", "http://www.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/2/0/feed" <rxMokka> I'm told that reply headers are simply implemented via listing in a $headers variable in the template file, and am wondering if last-modified is infact implemented, and is just getting zapped by the cache-proxy, or if there is some other method I could be using to detect changes to these pages <rxMokka> hey mpt <mpt> hi rxMokka <rxMokka> would you happen to be familiar with ubuntu.com's implementation of the drupal theme? <rxMokka> the http reply headers are my specific interest <mpt> rxMokka, not at all <mpt> sorry <mpt> newz2000 is the expert on that <newz2000> hi <newz2000> rxMokka: what is it you need to know? <rxMokka> newz2000: I'm wanting to know if last-modified header is enabled in drupal, and getting filtered out by the cache-proxy <rxMokka> or if its not enabled, and could be <rxMokka> I'm working on an outomated monitoring script for USNs, and would rather not download the entire USN feed to see if its been changed... if there's a possibility to just pull the http reply headers and check a last-modified <newz2000> we have a squid proxies in between drupal and you. We've made some custom modifications in order to make drupal play nice with squid. <newz2000> ah, I see <rxMokka> the Age header seems like it could get out of sync too easily to depend on <rxMokka> and judging by wikipedia description, Date's not quite what I'm looking for either <rxMokka> but I could be way wrong on date <newz2000> rxMokka: not currently but if you want to file a launchpad bug against ubuntu-website product I'll investigate it when we migrate to Drupal 6 <rxMokka> newz2000: no chance its as easy as adding ', last-modified' to the tpl.php's $headers variable? <newz2000> sorry, but it's not <rxMokka> bummer <newz2000> a lot on the page can change besides the node content <rxMokka> newz2000: it'd still work for me even if last-modified changed to reflect non-node changes... since I would beable to just look at the http://www.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/2/0/feed page, with no content except for node content <rxMokka> but I can see how it could confuse the clients of other users looking at main-site pages :/ <rxMokka> but then again, with no last-modified currently in use, isn't everyone's client requesting a full fresh copy every time anyway? * newz2000 checks <newz2000> correct, there is no support for if-modified-since / conditional get with the system the way it's currently configured <newz2000> I have written code for this type of thing for another CMS and can attest that there are a lot of variables and it is not trivial to implement. <rxMokka> ah ok <rxMokka> well thanks newz2000 <newz2000> always happy to try and help <rxMokka> I'll put in a bug request, and make due with some slightly pulls in the mean time <newz2000> as an alternative you can subscribe to the security announcement list <rxMokka> *some slightly larger <newz2000> the security team triggers the emails the same time they update the rss feed <newz2000> so you could subscribe a unique address and use incoming mails to that as a trigger to pull the rss <rxMokka> oh cool, they did not mention that an email was auto-triggered by the USN publication <newz2000> well, that's the way it used to be. They have an automation system that does something like this. <newz2000> I may not have a complete understanding of the process but it's something like that <rxMokka> looks like they use the same drupal template to generate the email formats as well <rxMokka> I'll checkout their tool on launchpad and verify its operation, nice pointer thanks! #ubuntu-website 2009-02-03 <qense> hello <qense> argh, I hate having to use multiple foreaches within each other #ubuntu-website 2009-02-04 <qense> hello <Caesar> newz2000: hi <newz2000> hi Caesar, what is your concern with the rss feed? <Caesar> It needs some <pre> tags <Caesar> Or the style needs to be embedded inside the <description> <Caesar> Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/2/0/feed with Firefox <newz2000> yes, I've seen it. It is a problem, <Caesar> It's all mashed together <newz2000> I will bring it up to the person who publishes this content and see if he can get the pre tags back in there. <newz2000> or use a different formatting <Caesar> Great thanks <ryanakca> mdke: ping, Would you be able to help me try to figure out how I can get the searchbar you implemented for h.u.c/community/ working for wiki.kubuntu.org? <ryanakca> mdke: also, how did you go by getting the sys admins to upload ubuntu-new for people to test? RT? And how many weeks should I expect it to take to get them to upload kubuntu-new? #ubuntu-website 2009-02-05 <mdke> ryanakca: I can try, but you need to send me unencrypted email, I can't read that with gmail <mdke> ryanakca: and yes, RT is the only way to get the sysadmins to do stuff. I don't know what the likely response time is <seraph-os> hi everyone <seraph-os> am i logged in anyone see me type? <seraph-os> anyone? <MadsRH> yes :-) <seraph-os> yay <seraph-os> so where is everyone? <seraph-os> new to ubuntu and was looken for some help(s) <MadsRH> Well, 12 people here. What kind of help? <seraph-os> ummm where to begin... <seraph-os> im trying to use compiz and my system crashes when i try use options <seraph-os> and cant seem to get my optical drivvvvve to regognise copied media <rxMokka> seraph-os: this is a chat about the _website_ <seraph-os> oh <seraph-os> i just cant find anything lol <MadsRH> seraph-os -> I have to say, I feel the forum is the best place to get help. But other people like other ways. Have you tried the #ubuntu <seraph-os> hmm <seraph-os> sry <MadsRH> seraph-os -> here's a few ways you could go: http://www.ubuntu.com/support <seraph-os> well in any case considering this is the website then is their a way not only to download the ubuntu iso but also all the updates and media etc. in something close to one file or 2? <rxMokka> seraph-os: why not just get iso, then immediately run system update? <seraph-os> i did <seraph-os> except lol ive done it about 15 times <seraph-os> lol i guess it wants to crash on me <seraph-os> just wondered if i was possible to download everything u need somhow <rxMokka> copy the downloaded .deb files to an external source for easy re-installation of the updates <rxMokka> you don't "need" updates <seraph-os> where are the deb files? <seraph-os> sry i don't mean toaste ur time a newb... <rxMokka> /var/apt/archive I believe? run a search for *.deb under /var <rxMokka> there's probably an apt-backup or something that you can install that'll do it for you <seraph-os> well now that i know i can just move those files i guess it would be easier lol #ubuntu-website 2009-02-06 <qense> hello #ubuntu-website 2009-02-08 <qense> hello #ubuntu-website 2009-02-09 <FyshY> i have a 10yrd computer and need a linux distro that will work well with its epuiptment and suggestions ? <thorwil> FyshY: strange place to ask. but of the ubuntu flavors, xubuntu is meant to be light-weight, good for old hardware <toros> hi <qense> hello <toros> Ubuntu-wanted starts in 30 minutes? :) <qense> yes <toros> great \o/ - Some months ago we (hungarian loco) wanted to create a feature on our loco site similar to ubuntu-wanted... <toros> but we never made it <qense> I had thoughts for adding localisation features to Ubuntu Wanted, but I never really wrote something down, especially because of a lack of time. <qense> When we've got something up and running you could always set up a local instance, but we'd have to implement translation support first, although the t() function is already called most of the times. <toros> qense: localisation would be a nice feature later, but now I'm happy that ubuntu-wanted exists <toros> will be there some official announce? <qense> What about? The existance of UW or it's deployment? <qense> I'm not even sure if we'll get a subdomain, maybe it's just going to be a community project, independent from Ubuntu/Canonical's main websites. <toros> about the existance of UW... I would write about it on our LoCo site <qense> It has already been announced and I'm already working on it. <qense> It's just that since I'm the only developer, the development is slow. <qense> I do write reasonable regulary about it on my blog and new revisions in my development branch get published to Identi.ca <toros> and what's the actual url? still this? http://ubuntu-wanted-devel.ideatorrent.org/ <qense> the project page is at https://launchpad.net/ubuntuwated <qense> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-wanted actually <qense> I've created some blueprints so people can see what roughly needs to eb done. <qense> the zstrickland@example.net is the stable branch being apached <qense> who's here for the meeting? <MadsRH> I'm here! <qense> yay! the themer's here! <qense> /ping nand <qense> :) <qense> toros, do you want to join as well? <qense> OK, since MadsRH is already here I think it would be the best to start with the theme. <MadsRH> Would be great if nand (Nicolas Deschildre) was here to discuss the inter- menubar <qense> there are a lot of people on at #ubuntu-meeting, we could hijack that channel ;) <MadsRH> sounds fine to me :-D <nand> hello? <toros> qense: I'm just listening... :) <qense> ok * nand is reading the backlog <qense> do you know if jcastro was going to attend as well? He did said he was going to research some front page designs at the UDS, but I've heard nothing from him since. <qense> He is on at #ubuntu-meeting, so if we'd move to that channel we could easily ping him. <nand> you may just ping him, not sure he will be here <nand> what's the agenda? <qense> the new theme mock-up by MadsRH <qense> how to gain developers <qense> and the limitation of the feature scope <qense> I thought it would be good to finish technical discussion that we didn't finish at the UDS. <qense> Especially the team/LP integration needs some talking. <qense> I'll PM jcastro to ask <qense> Did you see the latest mock-up? <MadsRH> https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/attachments/20090207/eedcaa67/attachment-0001.jpg <jcastro> hi! <jcastro> sorry I am late <qense> welcome <qense> we were just starting <nand> waah, nice mockup <nand> hello <qense> We have three points this meeting: this mock-up: https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/attachments/20090207/eedcaa67/attachment-0001.jpg <qense> gaining manpower <qense> and some design discussion we didn't finish at the UDS, especially team/LP integration and permission stuff seem important to me <qense> What would we think of converting this mock-up to a Drupal theme for Ubuntu Wanted? <jcastro> I think it looks fine <qense> I really like it, but I'm not sure about the inter website navbar. <jcastro> though <jcastro> what do we think about having help available as the default view? <jcastro> I am concerned that this will just be a flood of people looking for help <nand> may be a better way to introduce people yeah... <jcastro> and not people signing up TO help <jcastro> otherwise I think you'll ge a bunch of "My project needs programmers" <qense> you could indeed question the relevance of the latest of all tasks to visitors <jcastro> which would be a waste because every project needs programmers, etc. <qense> jcastro, you said you would look into some designs for UW after the UDS. Did you find some spare time to do so? <jcastro> I did but they all sucked <jcastro> this one seems the best so far tbh <jcastro> though I think the simplicity of craigslist might work too <qense> would that be understandable for people new to contributing to Ubuntu? <jcastro> it might be too cluttered <qense> It's a bit like Gnome Do, powerful, but you have to know how to use it. <qense> Maybe MadsRH's style together with a small help thing at the frontpage would be the best. <jcastro> is there a link to what he proposed? <qense> https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/attachments/20090207/eedcaa67/attachment-0001.jpg <qense> that's the latest mock-up we've got <qense> so far only MadsRH has created mock-ups <jcastro> ah <nand> jcastro: MadsRH is here btw <MadsRH> :-) <jcastro> I think that looks great <qense> How would the side menus look with a small help text -- possible with nice icons -- in the centre? <jcastro> I would make it obvious like <jcastro> "Find help" <jcastro> and "Donate help" or something <qense> we don't have enough manpower for the donate help part yet ;) <jcastro> heh <qense> I'm currently the only dev <MadsRH> We talked about a front page long ago: http://madsrh.googlepages.com/wanted-site2.jpg <qense> that was also a nice design, but the three things aren't equal of sort <jcastro> hey I like that one <jcastro> I like the idea of big buttons <qense> hello knome <knome> 'lo <knome> hi everybody o/ <qense> big buttons often prevent confusion\ <nand> hey! <jcastro> so it's obvious that you're either looking for help, or offering help <qense> yeah <qense> we're talking about these two mock-ups: https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/attachments/20090207/eedcaa67/attachment-0001.jpg and http://madsrh.googlepages.com/wanted-site2.jpg <knome> ok. <knome> maybe we could integrate these two designs. <qense> I think using the second one as a frontpage would be nice, once we have both parts. <qense> and the subparts with the first <qense> however, we need something to theme first <qense> what if we'd use the first mock-up at first and once we've got something more add the second one as a frontpage? <jcastro> or once we play with it add the buttons up top or somethin <jcastro> I think we'll figure that out as we play with it <qense> that's also a nice suggestion <knome> maybe we should just fire up an xhtml mockup of this. <qense> use the upper part of the second mock-up as a menu bar <qense> Last time I saved all theme files as HTML and sent it to MadsRH, he edited it and I converted it back to a Drupal theme. <qense> But I'm not sure if that's the best solution. :) <knome> i can do png/jpg -> drupal <qense> Is there someone who would be able to guide MadsRH through the process of converting the mock-up to XHTML? <qense> with PHP template stuff in it <knome> i can <qense> Maybe it would also be better to start over again since the current Ubuntu theme contains a lot of clutter. <knome> i don't know much about phptemplate, but i have quite an experience with drupal. <knome> however... <knome> i think it still would make sense to do a basic html mockup first <knome> because it's way easier to edit <qense> true <jcastro> I would think the theme doesn't matter, get the guts working first <knome> and you don't have to think about breaking things. <jcastro> and polish at the end? <knome> sure, but the theme needs to be worked on as erll. <knome> *well <MadsRH> If knome would help out that would be great :-) then qsense can focus on the code <qense> what if knome and MadsRH would start working on the theme alongside the development? <qense> I have no time for theming <jcastro> yeah that's fine <knome> that's ok, but i suppose i will be quite busy also. <jcastro> I was just saying, it's way too early to nitpick on the themes <knome> i have time next weekend. <knome> jcastro, you're right. <qense> yeah <MadsRH> so, we will just be using the current theme until knome and I have something new? <knome> but i think, to make a good site and a theme, we need to know which kind of information we want to show <knome> but also we have to think about the theme when we are creating the content <knome> so the theme has suitable places to put things in <qense> I created a blueprint for the task, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWanted/Tasks <qense> If we would use that page to document all kinds of information being shown <qense> there is more information in other blueprints at the LP project page <qense> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wanted <qense> do we basically agree on this subject? <qense> I think it's time to move on to another important subject. <MadsRH> agreed <knome> + <jcastro> nod <qense> OK, next point: gaining manpower <qense> especially developers <qense> At the moment I'm the only developer. <jcastro> we could post on ubuntu wanted! <qense> that has been suggested before. <knome> well, i'm open to helping out. <knome> (as i pointed out at UDS) <MadsRH> jcastro -> :P funny! <knome> but i've been busy and will be until april at least <qense> If you give me enough time it will eventually be finished some time, but its code won't have been reviewed by another zstrickland@example.net. <qense> Which isn't good practise according to me. <qense> We need to somehow attract more PHP developers. <jcastro> ok <jcastro> let's each blog, find people in loco's, etc. <qense> I already regularly blog about it and ask for help, but I didn't get much response so far. <jcastro> and everytime we have a meeting each of us can report <MadsRH> qense -> didn't you get any reply from the ubuntu-website team? <qense> I got a mail from one person, but he didn't reply after I had sent him a mail. <qense> I'm going to ask in Ubuntu NL and other people I see, but that's it. <qense> well, there isn't much that can be discussed about this as long as there is no Ubuntu Wanted. <jcastro> this should just be an ongoing effort by everyone <qense> yes <qense> ok, next point? <jcastro> sure <qense> At the UDS we didn't finish talking about team/LP integration. <jcastro> yeah <jcastro> so, I was chatting with someone this week <jcastro> forgot who <jcastro> and I think for the Wanted portion of the site <jcastro> (not the people donating time) <jcastro> that it should be tied to a /project/ in lp <jcastro> so when they click on "My project needs help" or whatever <knome> i have to go now. i'll read the log later. see you. <jcastro> it has to be an existing project on lp and the person requesting should be in that team <qense> bye knome <qense> thank you for attending <jcastro> so we don't get random "Xorg needs programmers" type stuff <knome> np. <jcastro> have a good one knome! <qense> what team? <qense> the driver? <jcastro> the team for the project <jcastro> so like, if I submit one for gwibber I would have to be in gwibber-team <knome> jcastro, you too. <jcastro> or whatever group owns "gwibber" <qense> that would also widen the scope from Ubuntu Community to Ubuntu and its software <qense> and it would make it harder for teams like the bugsquad or translation teams to post tasks <jcastro> hmm, I see what you mean <qense> but ti is an interesting idea <qense> I do think a lot of projects would benefit from such a service. <jcastro> let's keep that in our heads as a "2.0" idea or something then <qense> maybe we'd have to rename it to OpenWanted if we'd allow that :) <qense> anyway, is team integration necessary? <jcastro> I would think so <qense> Or is writing the team's name in the task's body enough? <jcastro> that's kind of fundamental on how ubuntu works <qense> yeah <qense> at the moment team integration would allow this: searching for tasks by team, application management for team administrators, assigning teams to tasks <qense> especially application management would be useful <jcastro> nod <jcastro> anything else? <jcastro> I need to hit another meeting here shortly <qense> ok <qense> however, at the moment the application form is a mail form and there isn't any LP integration <qense> I think we'd better stick witht he current idea for team integration for now <jcastro> I agree <qense> I'll have another look at the Drupal LP plugins soon. <qense> that's probably it <qense> for now I just need to start coding :) <qense> to code a lot <jcastro> \o/ <jcastro> hero <qense> coffee! :P <qense> I'm going to finish the rewrite of the model system soon, I just have to implement updating the data in the controller. <MadsRH> qense -> what language should people be able to write if they want to contribute? PHP? <qense> after that I can work on adding LP integration <qense> MadsRH: You don't really need to have to write it fluently, just understanding it with help of the only code reference would be good enough <qense> just make sure you understand the basic logic so you can work with Drupal themes <MadsRH> okay <qense> well, lets officially end this meeting now <qense> thank you for attending <qense> the basic conclusion is: lets start to do some work <jcastro> heh <jcastro> so we can just idle in here then? <qense> in this channel? yes <qense> I'll be off soon <qense> I'm going offline now, bye everyone! #ubuntu-website 2009-02-10 <qense> hello <qense> nand: Ohloh says Ubuntu Wanted is GPLv2, but the LP project page says it's GPLv3. I have no problems with v3, but I have to ask your permission. #ubuntu-website 2009-02-14 <qense> hello #ubuntu-website 2009-02-16 <qense> hello #ubuntu-website 2009-02-17 <newz2000> http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/canonical-link-tag/ #ubuntu-website 2009-02-19 <Turl1> hi newz2000 <newz2000> hey Turl1 <Turl1> will the "automatic mirror selection" be ready for Jaunty? <newz2000> No, but I'm hoping step one of "automatic mirror suggestion" will be ready. <Turl> what's the step one? <newz2000> Step one is migrate to Drupal 6 which I'm working on right now <newz2000> I hope to be on Drupal 6 by beta release with the theme and ubuntu mirrors module ported over. <Turl> never liked drupal, even if I never used it heavily :p <newz2000> I wish there was a perfect open source CMS, haven't found one though <Turl> yeah, Joomla is too heavy, for example <Turl> have you ever tried XOOPS? <newz2000> yes, I tried it a while back <newz2000> but it's been a while <Turl> what about xoops cube? http://xoopscube.org/ <newz2000> no, haven't seen it <newz2000> I'm too heavily invested in Drupal now to change. The only thing that would probably convince me is if a mature and robust python based CMS popped up. <newz2000> (besides plone) <Turl> another good one is MODx, never used it, but seems to be a very good framework to work on. <Turl> python? you must be joking :p <newz2000> Canonical is very attached to Python <Turl> yeah I know <Turl> ubuntu brings python devel packages on a default install <Turl> :p <Turl> newz2000: by any chance, do you know Jamie, the ufw developer? <newz2000> do you know what Jamie's IRC nick is? <Turl> nope <Turl> let me see in launchpad <Turl> jdstrand is his nick <newz2000> oh, yes, I know him <newz2000> not well but have talked with him a few times <Turl> and have you heard of Gufw? <newz2000> no, is thata gnome front end to it? <Turl> yeah <Turl> it's already on the repos :p <Turl> newz2000: check popcon2 out :) http://popcon2.ecchi.ca <Turl> it's quite advanced, but its development will be 'frozen' for a while (school, english classes, ...) <newz2000> Turl: it's either not loading or is loading very very slow for me <newz2000> Turl: are you learning English as a second language or are you a native speaker? <newz2000> (you speak on IRC like a native) <Turl> it might be down :/ not loading here either <Turl> and no, I'm not a native. My native language is Spanish <newz2000> Well, in writing you do very well, though admittedly IRC is not exactly the best indicator. :-) <Turl> :p <Turl> I did FCE last year, have you ever heard of it? <newz2000> no <Turl> well, it's a cambridge examination <Turl> First Certificate in English <Turl> it's B2 in the common european framework iirc <Turl> newz2000: the site is working again, but my DB went down <Turl> the vm is down and won't start :/ <newz2000> Give me a shout when it's back up and I'll check it out. <Turl> I guess the kernel module needs recompiling, but I don't have sufficient privileges to do that, so I'll have to wait :p <Turl> newz2000: still there? <Turl> http://popcon2.ecchi.ca/ is back up&running :) #ubuntu-website 2009-02-21 <ryanakca> newz2000: Ping, do you have to update our download page for Kubuntu 8.04.2 ? <newz2000> ryanakca: hi, waiting for slangasek to give me the OK <ryanakca> newz2000: *nod*, splendid #ubuntu-website 2009-02-23 <jpds> newz2000: Sitemap link at the buttom of wiki.ubuntu.com is broken, should I file a bug against ubuntu-webiste? <newz2000> hi jpds, I think there's a bug actually. I've started creating a sitemap on u.c but it's not published yet. <newz2000> thanks though <newz2000> I'm gettig ready to go into our planning meeting for beta release. It's overdue but hopefully we'll find out what's going to happen. #ubuntu-website 2009-02-24 <Turl> newz2000: hi <newz2000> hey Turl <Turl> could you see popcon2? <newz2000> I saw it last week, did you want me to check it again? <Turl> but did you see it working? I mean, the last time I told you, the database was down. <newz2000> yeah, I checked the next day and saw the flash movie that had the chart <Turl> ok then :) <Turl> did you try searching for things or using the list? <newz2000> no, I just played with the movie <Turl> http://popcon2.ecchi.ca/ search for your prefered package then :p <newz2000> Turl: slick. That really brings back the "popularity contest" part of it. <newz2000> A nifty feature would be to filter out packages that are installed by default. So the most popular add-on packages. <Turl> newz2000: any idea on how to get a list of the packages installed by default? <newz2000> Hmm. No, not off the top of my head. <newz2000> I'll bet the Ubuntu Developers know. * Turl asks in #ubuntu-devel #ubuntu-website 2009-02-26 <glade88> hello. can I find help related to ubuntu mailman (@lists.ubuntu.com) here? <jpds> glade88: Try asking zstrickland@example.net <glade88> jpds: thanks! will do <jpds> glade88: Replied. <glade88> jpds: kudos! That's everything I needed to know :) <jpds> Anytime. <boredandblogging> newz2000: will there be a jaunty countdown banner coming? <newz2000> boredandblogging: actually, I'll be announcing that to the list today! <boredandblogging> newz2000: ah, cool #ubuntu-website 2009-02-27 <boredandblogging> newz2000: ping <newz2000> hey boredandblogging <boredandblogging> hey <boredandblogging> can you update the fridge text editor? <boredandblogging> there was something stopping you before, right? <newz2000> I can't remember what was in my way before <boredandblogging> newz2000: nether do I <newz2000> boredandblogging: it is on my todo list <boredandblogging> newz2000: thanks <newz2000> I can't commit to a time <newz2000> I'm sorry, but I'm going to try to upgrade ubuntu.com and canonical.com to D6 before beta <boredandblogging> np, I just remember that there was a reason we didn't do it and couldn't remember why <SiDi> hello <SiDi> I'm reading the artwork mailing list and just wanted to drop a word about the mail we received for the countdown banners <SiDi> PLEASE don't go for iframes, that'd be an 11 year regression in web standards <prateek> Also, the mail mentions Javascript. It'll be really nice if people stop ignoring these two bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278451 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/209417 . These issues came up when Hardy was released, and when Intrepid was released. <ubot3> Malone bug 278451 in ubuntu-website "Intrepid Countdown is useless for sites that can't use JavaScript" [Undecided,New] <SiDi> true <SiDi> the amount of people without js is about 5/6% <SiDi> hello thorwil :) <prateek> One issue that is mentioned in those bugs is wordpress. <prateek> Wordpress.com, specifically. <prateek> Wordpress.com doesn't allow Javascript <thorwil> hi! <SiDi> well, there's the problem of blags, too <SiDi> but when you are on your own server, using php is better than js imo :) <prateek> So with the current state of affairs, one can't use the countdown on a WP.com blog, unless one has access to a PHP enabled server and uses the workaround I mentioned in one of those two bugs. <prateek> This problem has been around since Hardy, and it stays the same each time... no action, not even a comment on the bug page. :-( <thorwil> oh yes, i heared from quite a number of people who weren't able to use the countdown image script <SiDi> What about that : the guy just puts an "<img src="w/e.com/countdown.png" />" <SiDi> and the image is generated and cached by a PHP server <thorwil> SiDi: wouldn't caching get in the way? <SiDi> Well, the idea of putting the image in cache is just to save the server's bandwidth <SiDi> generating images with php is costy <thorwil> SiDi: i'm more concerned with browser cache <SiDi> there could be the image, just linked by the people all over the web, and the php server on which it's hosted running an update script <SiDi> ah true <thorwil> is there a way to tag just an image with some kind of content:expire thing? <prateek> Sorry, my connection is flaky. :-( <SiDi> There are cache prevention options, yeh <SiDi> but its site-wide <SiDi> but honnestly, i think recent browsers are able to know if a pic changed. when i'm on google and they change their pic, it changes <prateek> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/18045/image/1/ Brainstorm does it with static images. <prateek> I presume the number there changes with time. <prateek> If brainstorm can do it, why not the Ubuntu countdown? <thorwil> well, if i replace an image in my blog, firefox keeps the old one if i don't change the filename <SiDi> a php include could do it, but with same restrictions than js <SiDi> or then, we allow php includes + js + eventually a static image for those who don't have it <nand> yeah, the brainstorm image link point to a PHP script which, depending of the day and others parameters, generate and return the image to display. JS-free. <prateek> nand: Yeah, so we should have the same for the countdown too. <nand> easily feasible yes <nand> you just need a server to host that script <nand> that PHP script <thorwil> afaik that server was/is the whole problem. why there wasn't such a solution already <prateek> No, I mean Ubuntu should officially provide this on its own server, just like brainstorm does. <nand> I don't see why it couldn't be possible to host this script on some Ubuntu server... <nand> newz2000: ^ ? <SiDi> ubuntu.com *should* be able to host such a script <thorwil> newz2000: great timing! i was just considering to ask you about the countdown :) <prateek> Is newz2000 around? <thorwil> prateek: doesn't look like it, but irc can be asynchronous communication :) <prateek> Oh ok. I got confused by the "great timing" part. I was wondering if newz2000 just came back or something. <nand> thorwil: btw some news on the media contest for the Ubuntu CD? :) <thorwil> nand: no. afair it was meant to be a community council decision and i think the last one didn't happen. not sure <nand> hmm, more waiting... <thorwil> there are at least 2 pretty nice productions among the contenders, although both rather ordinary in comparison ;) <nand> of course :) <newz2000> hi thorwil, prateek <newz2000> The problem with dynamic images is that it is so heavily cached, especially as we go from Beta to Release <newz2000> I'm not saying "No" but I do need to think about it a bit <newz2000> Regarding image generation, it's not expensive on the server side <newz2000> you have one line of logic that decides what image to open, then it opens it and sends the whole thing to the browser. <newz2000> If I were building an image and drawing text on it and such, that would be expensive, but presumably the images are already created. <SiDi> that'd be a good 1st solution, with js being used as secondary solution for people who can't use PHP on their websites <newz2000> no, php wouldn't be needed on the other websites <newz2000> just an <img tag <SiDi> ah yeh, and the image being a PHP script ? <newz2000> <img src="http://www.ubuntu.com/some.image.php"> <newz2000> I'll talk to the Canonical sysadmins about it. It would make life easier for some. <newz2000> But for now, I'd rather focus on the actual images. <SiDi> i hope they forget about the iframe idea, too :$ <newz2000> Why? Choice is good. <newz2000> Wouldn't it be nice to have an iframe and a png or two to chose from? <SiDi> well, i'd never put an iframe on my website <newz2000> some people would though <SiDi> these things are just not accessible at all <SiDi> yeh, and that's scary :P <newz2000> sure they are <newz2000> frames and iframes can be very accessible <newz2000> but even still, it's a banner ad <SiDi> well, i consider it pretty much breaks the content flow <SiDi> i seriously prefer having an image, especially when an image is enough and makes more sense for people who don't use the browser graphically <newz2000> The goal is to attract eyes, get people excited. <newz2000> A picture says a thousand words. A simple elegant animation can do even more <SiDi> Well, animations are doable with JS too. I don't think it'd be more simple for webmasters at all, but if you can't use JS on your browser, you'll have a proper image <newz2000> the js would be in an iframe <SiDi> i'm not sure all browsers can render iframes completely flawlessly for their users, especially text browsers <newz2000> all modern browsers can <newz2000> lynx cannot <newz2000> Do a little research on the matter. They're a good solution to this kind of problem. <newz2000> And it's pretty much the standard nowdays for ads <newz2000> (and much more) <SiDi> i still find it scandalous :) <SiDi> if one does need frames, one should use a frameset DTD <prateek> Hi. Good to know that PHP on Canonical servers is being considered. <SiDi> but i for sure wouldn't change my xhtml 1.1 dtd and my whole code in order to add an iframe, not even for ubuntu :P <newz2000> SiDi: I wouldn't ask you to. I think the png is more likely to happen. <SiDi> Well, at least it's ok with me as long as we got alternatives :) <newz2000> By the way web team, I see that julian_ (Julian Hubbard, design lead for Canonical) and mat_t (Mat Tomaszewski, UX and designer for Canonical) have joined. <newz2000> rough 'em up real good, they're new <newz2000> ;-) <prateek> newz2000: Don't you think having a page on the official Ubuntu website which says "KDE version 3.5.5 is the current stable release and Kubuntu 6.10 is the first distribution to include it." is a Very Bad Thing? The page in question is http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/kubuntu . <prateek> (bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/112673 ) <ubot3> Malone bug 112673 in ubuntu-website "What's Ubuntu? >> Kubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] <newz2000> prateek: yes, I do think so <newz2000> wow, there are already a few ideas for banners at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners <prateek> Looks nice! Though I wonder what "only 29 jump days left" means... <mat_t> hi everybody, newz2000, thx for introducing me :) <prateek> ... so, can something be done about that Kubuntu page? For example, including correct information, instead of a combination of wrong information and outdated information. <newz2000> 25% of the people (including bots) in this room are named "mat*" <newz2000> prateek: yes, let me take a quick zstrickland@example.net. <prateek> Thanks :-) <newz2000> prateek: are you a kubuntu user? <prateek> Yeah. <newz2000> Don't suppose you can throw together a sharp looking screenshot to replace that first image could you? <newz2000> oh, wait <newz2000> that one on the kubuntu homepage will work <prateek> Yeah. And I'm on Kubuntu 8.04 and not 8.10... not yet a KDE 4 convert. <newz2000> Well, one thing that can be said about KDE 4 (like the previous versions before it), they know how to make someting pleasing to the eye <prateek> Haven't tried it out lately, though I tried out 8.10 when it was released, and I didn't find it as good as good ol' 3.5. <prateek> Oh yes, certainly. It looks great. <SiDi> well, hello mat_t :) <prateek> The main thing that put me off when I tried KDE 4.1 in 8.10 was the lack of a taskbar which can handle 3 rows and which autohides. I rely on these in 3.5. <newz2000> prateek: can you suggest replacement text for that second paragraph? <prateek> Hmm... I'm hopeless at such things. :-( A possibility could be to borrow something from the Kubuntu or KDE websites. Another could be to simply delete the "KDE version 3.5.5 is the current stable release and Kubuntu 6.10 is the first distribution to include it. " part. <newz2000> oh, I can check the kde website <prateek> Mentioning specific version numbers is probably not needed here. <newz2000> kubuntu is light on content <newz2000> kde.org is the opposite. :-P <prateek> Heh, yeah. :-) <prateek> Hmm... http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/ mentions UNIX quite a bit. I'm a bit confused about these things... technically, am I or am I not using UNIX? (I'm on a typical installation of Kubuntu 8.04) <newz2000> you are not technically <newz2000> unix is a trademark <newz2000> So you have to buy a license to call your product UNIX and you have to meet certain standards. <prateek> Ok, that's what I thought, that not anything can be called UNIX (unlike what the whatiskde page might lead one to believe... ) <prateek> Anyway, some screenshots here: http://www.kde.org/screenshots/ <newz2000> ok, page updated and bug closed. <julian_> hi everyone <julian_> thx for the intro newz2000 <newz2000> my pleasure. ;-) <newz2000> we're getting an influx of mailing list subscriptions to the team. * SiDi is amongst the culprits <newz2000> Well then, welcome SiDi! Glad to have you. <SiDi> thanks :) <SiDi> prateek: you and me have a very high quality connection <Turl> SiDi: you're on mibbit, I'd blame them, not your connection :p <SiDi> I blame the teachers who throw me out of university computer rooms so that they got one more PC to teach 1st year students how to use OOo and the gimp :D <Turl> woah, a university with OOo! where are you SiDi? <SiDi> Montpellier <SiDi> well, all the universities i've seen so far use Linux oO <Turl> here I'd bet 90%+ of the schools/univerties use M$ products, and teach them :/ <SiDi> we have windows on a few PC in dualboot, too, for some crappy software, but here everyone uses linux :P <SiDi> but its an old redhat distro they have <SiDi> and they removed mwm, only gnome and kde left, its just so slow :x <SiDi> i just take my laptop and use the wifi hotspots, but we only get a decent wifi connection in a few rooms, and when they're full i've got to go on the other side of the uni to get the internet T_T <Turl> SiDi: old pcs? GNOME is not slow by itself :p <SiDi> well, not so *old*, but definately weak machines <Turl> pentium3, 256MB ram I guess <SiDi> oh, and they bought some 16/10 screens but didnt configure the xorg.confs, too, so we have 800x600 screen res on those screens <SiDi> pentium D 1gb ram and a crappy processor, if i remember well <SiDi> well, i got a 4GB ram laptop, with a P8100, so its definately faster ^^ <Turl> xorg.conf? with jaunty, I completely forgot about that :p <Turl> well, 1gb ram and a pentium D, it shouldn't be slow :/ <Turl> (unless slow is "not like an i7 with 12GB ram" for you) <SiDi> well, not that much, but i use xfce with pretty responsive pcs <SiDi> so of course im not used to have to wait for 10 secs for my desktop to be loaded <Turl> you don't use compiz then :p <SiDi> but the prob is that they use old versions; for instance firefox 2, which is way slower than firefox 3 <Turl> yeah, that's true <SiDi> i dont use compiz :P my session boots fast, i removed absolutely everything :P i have a tear for the non-linux users who have to bear kde3's launching <Turl> :p <SiDi> i accidentally fell on an old (very old) website i made for a project when i was zstrickland@example.net. coded with ms publisher. the homepage is about 200kb, and contains 1 image and 1 link <Turl> LOL <Turl> heavy page heh <SiDi> yeh <Turl> my webpages weight way less :p it's the magic of using geany to do HTML :p <SiDi> its been done with micro*** publisher, years ago, before i knew how to write an hello world in html :P i've done better since then :$ <knome> hi newz2000 <newz2000> hi knome <knome> newz2000, we might be interested of the ubuntu module in xubuntu also. if you need help, feel free to ask, if you promise we will have that module also ;) <newz2000> knome: well, I don't think it would help xubuntu because xubuntu doesn't use the same mirrors as ubuntu <newz2000> it gets all of its data from launchpad <knome> newz2000, is it only a list of mirrors or is there some kind of detecting algorhythm? <newz2000> launchpad has all the magic <newz2000> let me get you a link... <knome> oki, thanks <newz2000> knome: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+cdmirrors <newz2000> mostly the ubuntu module is just a place for me to stick code that is version controlled <knome> heh, ok <knome> so how do you edit that output <newz2000> knome: which output? <knome> newz2000, the launchpad page. <newz2000> there is a daemon inside launchpad that maintains that data <newz2000> if you add -rss to the end of that url you'll get an rss feed which is what I use <knome> ok. can you access it's data staight? <knome> a-ha! <newz2000> shh. It's a secret. ;-) <knome> so does it have the flavor/version info? my firefox died. <newz2000> no, there's some file that all the official mirrors get which contains a list of the files that need to be included to be official <newz2000> launchpad checks each mirror to ensure they have all the files in that list <knome> ok.. <newz2000> and if they do they are in the feed, if they don't they drop out <newz2000> the list is ubuntu, kubuntu, server for all supported archs and supported versions <knome> ok. does that list include xubuntu stuff? <newz2000> no <knome> ... <newz2000> nor the dvds <newz2000> nor ubuntu studio, etc <knome> ok. is there *any* way to solve that? <newz2000> I don't know, you'd probably want to discuss it with the ubuntu developers, maybe #ubuntu-release would be appropriate <knome> ok, thanks. <knome> if you still need help with the module, just ask <newz2000> but if xubuntu did get included what we could do is like kubuntu and make an iframe <newz2000> knome: thanks, I will hopefully work on that on Monday <knome> iframe? why not just take what we need from the feed <newz2000> well, kubuntu's site is locked down so no php <newz2000> they use the same servers as locos <knome> we can use php <newz2000> shh. Don't say it too loud. :-) <knome> lol <knome> lot of secrecy here in #ubuntu-website <knome> i suppose these version/flavor lists are not correct: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/mirror.anl.gov-cd <knome> am i right? <newz2000> I'm not real sure what that is for actually <knome> yeah. <newz2000> as I understand it you have to mirror the whole thing to be on that list <knome> if that had correct info, i could just create a script and manually run it now and then <knome> the script could read all those pages ;P <knome> not very efficient, i know, but sometimes you have to do these kind of things. <newz2000> if you're interested in this I'd talk to the ubuntu release guys. They might give some valuable insight. <knome> i already asked them. :) <knome> just haven't got an answer #ubuntu-website 2009-02-28 <ryanakca> newz2000: ping, does Canonical have an account for custom search engines (google)? #ubuntu-website 2010-02-01 <rcsheets> is it just me, or is the wiki really slow? <rcsheets> hmm, wound up with a 502 proxy error. i'm guessing it's not just me. <newz2000> cjohnston: I'm sorry I missed you, I was quite sick last week and over the weekend. <newz2000> I've got a few meetings but otherwise you've got my full attention if you need me still <cjohnston> hey newz2000 <newz2000> hey cjohnston <cjohnston> feeling better? <cjohnston> newz2000: bug 510303 - is the ubuntu counter run by ubuntu/something that ubuntu/canonical wants to promote? <cjohnston> what happened to the bug bot again? <cjohnston> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/509217 - is that to save BW or something? otherwise i would tend to agree * newz2000 checks <newz2000> Hmmâ¦ I'm really not sure who manages that nor what the reasoning for the auth is. Maybe it's to reduce it's use for spamming <newz2000> oh, I know who made that <cjohnston> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/510303 <cjohnston> was the other one <cjohnston> since mr. bug bot isnt here <newz2000> cjohnston: I'm not sure what project it should be associated with but I've assigned it to the canonical sysadmins <newz2000> they manage that <newz2000> I don't think I'm going to link to that counter from any official Ubuntu webpage * newz2000 checks before making final judgement though <cjohnston> thats my opinion too <cjohnston> fwiw, best i can tell, all of the bugs that are still new, you are going to have to look at.. <newz2000> I'll update it <newz2000> ok <cjohnston> i dont have enough knowledge to determine anything about them <cjohnston> next im gonna start going through confirmed and see what is still valid <cjohnston> did you ever look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/106056 to see if its still valid? <newz2000> that is still valid and should be pretty easily fixed actually <newz2000> the about page is probably the bst place for it <cjohnston> k <cjohnston> starting by looking at high priority.. as.. well.. they are high priority <cjohnston> lol #ubuntu-website 2010-02-02 <cjohnston> newz2000: ping me when you come around please <newz2000> hey, I'm here <cjohnston> howdy <cjohnston> bug 515808 <newz2000> what's happening? <cjohnston> the hashes <cjohnston> again <cjohnston> lol <newz2000> oh, ok <cjohnston> if that page exists, i agree that it needs to be kept up to date <cjohnston> i know you had mentioned something about you didnt think it should be maintained by the webmasters or something <cjohnston> i dont completely remember what <newz2000> I'll have to refresh my memory <cjohnston> okie * cjohnston hopes synergy gets fixed when he reboots <cjohnston> im tired of this bug <cjohnston> lol <cjohnston> no synergy :-( #ubuntu-website 2010-02-03 <qense> I updated an old blog post and now it's showing up on Planet Ubuntu. Is there a way to get it off? <jpds> No. <qense> that's a shame <qense> How long has this bug been around? <jpds> Since, forever? <qense> probably #ubuntu-website 2010-02-04 <zumbrujm> hi all, I would like to know how the ubuntu documentation is stored online. Is it stored as database entries, or plain text files, or static html pages? <zumbrujm> I need to add a documentation section to a web-based application I'm making, and was trying to determine if there's a precedent for this. <bcurtiswx_> so if I'm having a problem with wiki.ubuntu.com, here to place to go? <bcurtiswx_> mpt: ^^ <jpds> bcurtiswx_: Launchpad is having fun. <jpds> bcurtiswx_: If you're having issues logging in that is. <bcurtiswx_> anyone? <jpds> 15:06:44 < jpds> bcurtiswx_: Launchpad is having fun. <jpds> 15:07:03 < jpds> bcurtiswx_: If you're having issues logging in that is. <bcurtiswx_> jpds: my issue is that I'm trying to rename DCTeam to DistrictOfColumbiaTeam but it says it already exists.... when I go to wiki.ubuntu.com/DistrictOfColumbiaTeam it says it doesn't exist yet <jpds> Freaky. <bcurtiswx_> jpds: what to do? <jpds> No idea. #ubuntu-website 2010-02-09 <mpt> Eh, www.ubuntu.com and webapps.ubuntu.com have different top-level navigation <thorwil> mpt: and backgrounds and borders. at least the later doesn't have that biting grey/orange contrast <mpt> ... and different widths ... <mpt> oh, no, I just had them zoomed in differently #ubuntu-website 2010-02-10 <thorwil> mpt, newz2000: would you be so kind to add testimonials to my wiki page for my membership application? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThorstenWilms <mpt> thorwil, done <mpt> with pleasure :-) <newz2000> thorwil: it would be my pleasure <thorwil> thank you, mpt! <thorwil> thank you, newz2000! <newz2000> my pleasure. ;-) I think you'll get approved. <qense> I can't get the spaces right in [[#Section head]] links on the wiki. How can you do that? * newz2000 has never done that #ubuntu-website 2010-02-12 <newz2000> hi cjohnston, I'll be ready. Running into another meeting here momentarily and then will be back in time for ours to start <cjohnston> great newz2000 <dpm> cjohnston, newz2000, I might be a couple of minutes late, on a phone call <cjohnston> ok <cjohnston> thanks dpm <cjohnston> hey pak33m <pak33m> oh hey there <pak33m> cjohnston: is that youu over in the kids section of the bookstore <cjohnston> lol.. no <cjohnston> brb in 1 sec <newz2000> ok, I'm here <cjohnston> hey ne <cjohnston> newz2000: <dpm> cjohnston, wrapping up the call, but I'm listening * newz2000 can start now or wait a couple min, whatever cjohnston prefers <cjohnston> i am fine with whatever newz2000.. I'm here all day. ;-) <newz2000> cjohnston: are you leading the meeting? <cjohnston> I can <cjohnston> hehe <newz2000> :-) Be my guest <cjohnston> dpm: basically the idea behind this project is not to translate the ubuntu.com website, but provide the user with links to provide them with more assistance in their prefered language based upon their browser defined preferred language
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