#ubuntu-translators 2010-11-05 <dpm> good morning all <happyaron> dpm: morning, :) <dpm> hey happyaron :) how are you? <dpm> ciao primes2h :) <primes2h> Hola dpm :-) How are you? <dpm> primes2h, fine, with a bit of ubuflu, but fine :) <happyaron> dpm: fine, thanks, enjoying busy days, :) <primes2h> dpm: ubuflu?! :D <primes2h> interesting... <happyaron> dpm: I'll be back in July next year, this should be the latest time <primes2h> dpm: I often have it as well ;-) <dpm> :-) <dpm> happyaron, the latest time of what? Are you having exams? <happyaron> dpm: I will have College entrance exam in June next year, :) <dpm> happyaron, ah, I see :-) <andrejz> morning <eagles0513875|2> hey dpm <eagles0513875|2> i have a question for you <dpm> hi eagles0513875|2, sure, just ask <eagles0513875|2> its not really translation related though <eagles0513875|2> who would i need to talk to about documentation on the wiki ? <dpm> eagles0513875|2, probably the ubuntu-docs team. You can reach them on IRC at #ubuntu-doc <eagles0513875|2> thanks <eagles0513875|2> dpm: channel is dead <eagles0513875|2> just 2 people <Andre_Gondim> dpm, hi, may you help me? <dpm> Andre_Gondim, I can try :) How can I help? <Andre_Gondim> dpm, I saw a bug translation reported, but the pack is upstream, how may I manager this? <Andre_Gondim> dpm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/671376 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 671376 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Portuguese translation hides "AbiWord" from launcher menu item (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] <Andre_Gondim> I just change to incomplet? <dpm> Andre_Gondim, I'd recommend using the "Also affects project" link to open a bug task for Abiword (the upstream project). Then you can add a watch for the upstream bug <Andre_Gondim> dpm, can you confirm if is correct? https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/671376 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 671376 in abiword (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Portuguese translation hides "AbiWord" from launcher menu item (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] <dpm> let me check... <dpm> Andre_Gondim, yeah, it looks good to me :) <Andre_Gondim> thanks ;) <dpm> hi TomaszD, have you got a minute? I'm just wondering how the Polish team is doing. Someone was trying to contact you guys about a month ago without success. I sent you an e-mail back then, have you had the chance to have a look at it? <dpm> hey TLE, are you around? <TomaszD> dpm, yeah sorry, it's all sorted out now, that person is now on the team <TomaszD> it actually got sorted out yesterday <dpm> TomaszD, ah, cool, glad to hear that <dpm> TomaszD, we also talked some time ago about subscribing to the ubuntu-translators mailing list to keep track of announcements re: Ubuntu Translations. You said you were going to have a meeting to have a contact person for Ubuntu to forward important announcements to your local mailing list. Did that get sorted as well? <TomaszD> no, but that's because I forgot about it :) <TomaszD> I'll subscribe <andrejz> hello dpm ! i was wondering whether pictures from various translation events are also going to be posted somewhere as a promotion material ? <dpm> hey andrejz, I'd love to post pictures for translations-related articles, we just need people to start sending them :) <TomaszD> done <andrejz> @dpm: this cycle we decided we need to meet & hang out more, so we started with this project called "translator's beer", where we meet in a pub and socialize once a month (usually translations or open source related) <dpm> andrejz, that's just awesome! <andrejz> the first time i forgot to take pictures, but this time i think i will. You think you could make any use of them? <dpm> thanks TomaszD, btw, now that I've got you here, all questions related to the Polish team come to mind - you wanted to join the Launchpad Translators group some time ago, but I didn't hear back from you guys. I seem to remember that the only step needed was to send the application (last step in https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LaunchpadTranslators#StartingTeam) - just a heads up in case you are still interested <TomaszD> heh, I have this channel on autojoin and I'm here almost every day :) <dpm> andrejz, sure, that could be the first article in the series of translations stories for this cycle! We could write an article for the Fridge and Planet Ubuntu <TomaszD> I'm not sure if I'm still interested in that, will evaluate <dpm> up to you, perhaps some other Polish translator is interested as well #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-08 <dpm> good morning everyone <andrejz> morning dpm <dpm> hey andrejz :) <ameurux> hello every one <ameurux> anyone there? #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-09 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> morning #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-10 <dpm> good morning everyone! <andrejz> morning dpm <andrejz> i have a question about launchpad <andrejz> in one of the packages all the strings in the form of '%s' were changed to Â»%sÂ« <andrejz> have you experienced this before and do you know why does this happen? <dpm> hi andrejz <dpm> andrejz, what package is it? <andrejz> pated <andrejz> parted <dpm> andrejz, could it be that the string was changed upstream? If that were the case the upstream string would replace the downstream one and that would explain the change <andrejz> some of strings are ok, others are not <andrejz> no, it's not from upstream as it hasn't been translated there <dpm> andrejz, could you point me to one of the strings which are not ok? <andrejz> actually i just decided to review the package and send it back upstream <andrejz> sure - https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/parted/+pots/parted/sl/10/+translate <andrejz> and i noticed this problem <dpm> let me have a look... <dpm> andrejz, hm, the only thing I can think of is message sharing. Looking at the link above, it seems that 'musli' changed the string. It could be that he did it on a release different than maverick, and due to message sharing the strings were updated in maverick as well? <dpm> When did you notice the change? Why do you think it wasn't an intentional change by 'musli'? <andrejz> i asked him and he said he strictly used ' ' and he 0translated 10.1 <andrejz> 10.10 <andrejz> of corse it's also possible ha wasn' concentrated and made a mistake <andrejz> i just wanted to check if it's a known bug / problem from before <andrejz> before blaming him ;) <dpm> andrejz, I don't know of any open bug, and I hadn't seen it before. It would be a strange one if only part of the string was changed ('' to Â»Â«), so my hunch would be that he mistakenly translated as Â»Â«. If you observe it again, though, I'd recommend to file a bug. <andrejz> just wanted to be sure <andrejz> that's why i asked before reporting a bug on launchpad <dpm> sure, no worries :) <andrejz> otherwise i am glad to tell there were 6 people driking translation beer with me yesterday, including gnome and kde translation team coordnator :) <dpm> wohooo, great! Collaboration by means of beer - that's what we like :) <andrejz> yes, we agreed to meet once per month from now on. I think it's good to do a bit of team building <dpm> cool <paultag> Hey Translators, I'm working on an Ubuntu local LoCo tool ( I'm on the LoCo Council ), and I'd like for it to be able to be translated. I've moved all my strings to gettext, and made sure it's all stable. I have no idea how to generate the .po files, or set up my gettext stuff. Anyone have any idea? I'm using Python for this tool, if it helps #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-11 <askhl__> paultag, if I'm not mistaken, you just run xgettext on your source files. See xgettext(1). <andrejz> Hello ! <andrejz> I have a question about update manager <andrejz> some strings are not translated in 10.10 <andrejz> even though they were translated in launchpad in June 2010 <andrejz> AFAIK, update-manager is not a part of non-language pack packages, is that correct ? <trijntje> andrejz, I believe part of the strings that show up in update manager are in fact from apt-deamon <andrejz> hi, trijntje! <andrejz> can you tell me how can i check it ? <trijntje> I use grep -iR "Searchterm" /usr/share/locale* to see where a string occurs <paultag> askhl, humm, aye. It was erroring for me, but I think I've got it. Now only to make sure everything is "working" :) <paultag> askhl, cheers, thanks for the response :) <andrejz> the problem is the string in question is Downloading <andrejz> so it's almost in every package <dpm> hi andrejz, I think there was a bug about that, let me check... <andrejz> please do <dpm> andrejz, there it is: bug 641262 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 641262 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "Status strings during update do not show up translated (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 72)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641262 <andrejz> thanks! good to know somebody is working on it #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-15 <dpm> good morning everyone <TLE> dpm: adjusted template is ready for feedback: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA/LanguagePackUpdateScheduleTemplate <TLE> after making any corrections you may have I'll scratch it from the specification work plan <andrejz> great work, TLE <TLE> andrejz: thanks <TLE> dpm: hey, did you see my message earlier <dpm> TLE, hey! :) I got disconnected, but I've just read it now. <dpm> andrejz, happy belated birthday, I guess that the answer on the first question about your age is no longer correct ;) <dpm> http://ubuntu-news.org/2010/11/12/ubuntu-translations-interviews-andrej-znidarsic-slovenian-translation-team/ <dpm> There was a nice comment on the article as well <dpm> Again, good work <dpm> TLE, after a quick glance, the page looks good. Give me some time to have a more detailed look at it during the course of the day and then we see if we can call this part done <TLE> dpm: sounds good, I have also started on the Maverick schedule <TLE> I do have one questions though, do you remember how long the language pack build takes? <TLE> or should I ask pitti <dpm> TLE, pitti would know best, but IIRC, the last time it took ~1 to 1,5 days for all final language packs to be build before release, although by then all builders were probably being stressed <dpm> s/build/built/ <TLE> dpm: ok thanks <dpm> TLE, we should probably quantify how much time takes each one of the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LanguagePackUpdatesSchedule?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=LangpackSRU.png and I should update the diagram with some approximate figures <TLE> dpm: yes, I'll investigate since I need to know anyway, and then I'll let you know, then you can update the figure <dpm> sounds good, thanks <TLE> np <TLE> oh well, back to work, venting a vacuum chamber, and yes, that is not usually something we would want to do ;) <TLE> afk most of the day <dpm> ok, have fun TLE! ;) <TLE> thanks <andrejz> @dpm: Do you think the comment could be changed into a translation story? <dpm> andrejz, that's actually a very good idea, although unfortunately the poster did not leave any way of contacting him :( <andrejz> yes, that is unfortunate. i know a couple of people like the one in the comment so maybe i will try to convince some to share their experience <andrejz> thanks for the congratulations, and the age is still correct, as i rounded it up to 25 :) <andrejz> Also i had a nice linux-like birthday cake - http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs566.ash2/148894_1716092624750_1311262275_1906427_5549501_n.jpg <dpm> andrejz, haha, awesome, great cake! <andrejz> also the age is written in binary <dpm> yeah, I was wondering that #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-16 <dpm> good morning everyone <andrejz> good morning * You're now known as ubuntulog * You're now known as ubuntulog_ * You're now known as ubuntulog <nisshh> hey all <nisshh> is anyone able to do a very quick translation for me? (its literally about 5 words) <michael_k> in what language? <nisshh> michael_k, several, but Brazilian Portugese mostly <michael_k> I only know English, I wouldn't bet on my French and I have readyy help for German and a little Italian <michael_k> and Greek of course <nisshh> michael_k, i only need about 5 words translated from english to 3-4 other languages, unfortunately, if i dont get this done, i cant release my app :) <nisshh> German is one of them though <michael_k> no prob! We ll do our best! <michael_k> what are the words? <nisshh> one sec <nisshh> ok <nisshh> these are the words: Arabic French Spanish Hindi German <nisshh> all as individual words, not a sentence <michael_k> these are names of languages right? <nisshh> yeah <michael_k> gibe me a moment <nisshh> sure <nisshh> i need them in brazilian portuegese, german and hindi <nisshh> no others though <nisshh> michael_k, ^^^ <michael_k> In German: Arabische Franz(oe)sisch Spanisch Indisch Deutsch <michael_k> (oe) = o with umlauts <nisshh> michael_k, o with umlauts? <nisshh> is that the o with the little thing on top? <michael_k> like Ï but with o in place of Î¹ <nisshh> ah i see <nisshh> michael_k, i also need the same thing in brazilian portuegese and hindi if you can get it for me <michael_k> sorry, I can't, I have no clue of Brazilian or Hindi... have you tried contacting the locotemas there? <nisshh> michael_k, no, i havent, but i know a guy who can do the hindi, i dont know about the BP though <michael_k> I think your best bet is to contact the locoteam there. it's afternoon there I guess so you ll get some response <nisshh> michael_k, yeah, do you know the channel name for them? <michael_k> give me a sec! <michael_k> nisshh: it's #ubuntu-br <nisshh> michael_k, thanks for all the help :) <michael_k> you're welcome! #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-17 <dpm> good morning everyone! <andrejz> morning <dpm> hey andrejz :) <TLE> morning <artnay> chromium translations, any announcements? <artnay> and btw, seems like there's a pootle instance serving libre's translations: http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/ <artnay> (I've missed the announcement so that was news to me) <dpm> artnay, re: chromium translations not yet. Please be patient, if you are subscribed to the translators mailing list you'll see the announcement there <dpm> on LibreOffice, them using pootle for translations is also news to me <artnay> I was hoping they would change to rosetta <dpm> artnay, me too, in fact, I wanted to contact them, but I haven't had the chance yet :( <artnay> is there any place where I could subscribe via rss? <artnay> I don't follow MLs that actively * artnay wants everything as rss feeds :) <dpm> artnay, have a alexanderlisa@example.com. If the list is indexed there, you might be able to get an rss feed. Also check out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact/#Newsreader%20Feed <artnay> dpm: thanks again <artnay> I'll look into those later <dpm> cool :) <dpm> if you prefer microblogging, we've got an identi.ca group and a twitter account you can subscribe to if you want, it's all explained in the contact page ^ <artnay> no, I just follow some people/groups occasionally. I don't have an account for FB, Twitter, identi.ca etc. <dpm> no worries, we've got plenty of options to follow us :) <kamusin> Hola dpm :) <dpm> kamusin, hey Victor! Â¿CÃ³mo te va? <kamusin> hehe fine and you? how was your back to home? #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-18 <dpm> good morning <andrejz> morning <andrejz> dpm, do you know why packagekit in launchpad has very few strings compared with upstream? <primes2h> 'morning dpm. <primes2h> dpm: I found out that texinfo italian translation has never been imported in Launchpad from upstream. <primes2h> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/texinfo/+pots/texinfo <primes2h> http://translationproject.org/domain/texinfo.html <dpm> hi primes2h, just a few minutes, I'll ave a look <primes2h> dpm: I tried to download po from launchpad and it's really empty <primes2h> thanks <dpm> andrejz, hi. I haven't looked, let me get through my e-mail first and then have a look as well <andrejz> sure, tyt <dpm> btw, if any of you guys are in facebook, be sure to "like" our new Ubuntu Translators group http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-Translators/120320724698478 ;) <andrejz> i would but i canceled my acoount a few months ago <primes2h> dpm: btw, did you have a look at texinfo issue? <dpm> primes2h, oh, sorry, I didn't, thanks for the reminder. Let me do this now... <primes2h> thanks :-) <dpm> primes2h, it does not seem to be a problem with Launchpad. It seems that the upstream sources never included the Italian translations. You can do an 'apt-get source texinfo' and you'll see that the po/it.po file is missing. You might have to poke the upstream developer to include the translation <primes2h> dpm: uh oh :-/ I didn't check that because I thought it was obvious. thank a lot, I'll do it immediately. :-) <dpm> ok, no worries :-) #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-19 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> morning dpm <dpm> heya andrejz <dpm> I haven't forgotten about packagekit, I just hadn't the chance to check it out yesterday <andrejz> it's no problem <andrejz> nothing urgent <dpm> let me see if I can today, though <andrejz> i was just curious <andrejz> do you happen to know when the language pack update is going to be released ? <andrejz> is it this weekend or the next ? <dpm> andrejz, I'll see if I can ping the people involved again so we can do it asap. I started a thread on the ubuntu-translations-coordinators list some time ago and sent the last e-mail just a few days ago: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations-coordinators/msg00448.html <andrejz> ok, i would just to know when we need to do thourugh testing and also to ask all the bug hunters to check whether the bugs they reported are fixed <dpm> yeah, I'll see if I can get some traction today, but don't worry for the announcement, I'll let translators know on the ML before the testing period begins <andrejz> ok, good, i was not online much this week and i was afraid i missed something <andrejz> i also have another question, dpm? are there any plans to also move gnome-docs to launchpad ? because some people would like to translate them but prefer launchpad interface to poedit. just wandering whether i need to migrate them to gnome group or not <dpm> andrejz, I'd love to make it easier to make them translatable in Launchpad, but Launchpad right now does not support translating documentation. It does somehow work for ubuntu-docs and the gnome user and accessibility guides, but there needs to be special additions to the package to convert from xml to gettext before an upload, and then translations have to be manually included in the package. Especially this extra step, manually getting the trans <dpm> lations and integrating into the package, represents quite a bit of work for developers, which would obviously prefer an automated solution <andrejz> ok, move to gnome it is then :) <dpm> (on the integration step, someone has to run the conversion back to xml) <andrejz> i would like to mention we got 2 new members as a direct consequence of the article in ubuntu-news <andrejz> so advice to team leaders - publish the intwerview - it might help you :) <dpm> andrejz, oh awesome, great news and great tip! <dpm> andrejz, do you use identi.ca or twitter? <andrejz> no, but i am considering it ;) <andrejz> why are you asking? <dpm> I created both an identi.ca and twitter feed as a means for people to have another way to keep in touch with Ubuntu translations (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact), and on the day I published the interview I wanted to ping you on identi.ca/twitter, but after a quick search I could not find you, so I was just wondering if you used microblogging :) <andrejz> created identi.ca account so now you can ping me :) <andrejz> dpm, i think this project also influences ubuntu translators - at least it's seriously annoying for me - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poedit/+bug/672084 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 672084 in poedit (Ubuntu) "No menubar in Poedit (affects: 4) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,Confirmed] #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-20 <ldnpub> Hi anyone here ? <ldnpub> need help :) <trijntje> ask ;) <ldnpub> in this phrase: The policy of this CA obligue the country field of the certificates to be the same as the one in the CA cert. <ldnpub> i don't get OBLIGUE <ldnpub> :( <trijntje> I think its something like 'demands', but i'm no native speaker <trijntje> http://www.babylon.com/definition/obligue/English <ldnpub> me neither :( i've been looking everywhere for this word but nothing <ldnpub> thanks i go take a look :) <ldnpub> ok but what would a spanish verb do in this phrase ? <trijntje> yeah, it looks like a word few people would understand :P <ldnpub> lol <ldnpub> thanks i'll continue asking on other channels :) <trijntje> good luck #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-21 <josecho> Facendo probas de conexiÃ³n <Claudinux> 2~/go <Claudinux> sorry, wrong channel #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-22 <dpm> good morning everyone! <TLE> good morning <dpm> TLE, heh, "To Malta from Greece - 10 points", nice one ;) <andrejz> morning <TLE> dpm: *G* <dpm> morning andrejz :) #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-23 <andrejz> good morning! <dpm> hey andrejz :) <dpm> good morning everyone! <andrejz> Hello! <andrejz> I have a question <andrejz> Is there any way to integrate custom word list into launchpad <andrejz> We thought it would be great to have some way to suggest recommended terms (common vocabulary) to translators automatically <andrejz> Has anyone thought about similar idea in the past or maybe even implemented it for their own language ? <dpm> andrejz, there is no standard way. What you can do is to create a project with the list of words in English, then translate them into Slovenian (or any other language) and take advantage of global suggestions in Launchpad: if you translate the words in this project, they will be shown as suggestions in all other projects in Launchpad. There was in fact a project created with this intention, but it is no longer maintained. Let me see if I find the <dpm> link... <dpm> Here it is: https://translations.launchpad.net/translation-standards <andrejz> Thanks for reply, dpm. I am aware of the global message sharing feature. But the problem is that all the messages (even the ones we don't have influence on, or some very old ones) are included in the message sharing. <andrejz> As such both good and bad suggestions are used <andrejz> Is there any way to make some suggestions prefered? <dpm> andrejz, no, but you can delete suggestions. What do you mean you don't have influence on them? Can't you delete bad suggestions or choose the good ones instead? <andrejz> I can use the good suggestions, but this is meant especially for new translators to help them learn quality translations faster, and if they have some good and some bad suggestions it's not optimal <andrejz> Is it possible to delete a suggestion so it's not dispayed as a suggestion anymore, ever ? <dpm> andrejz, it is possible, yes, you should be able to do it in the UI, but I'm not sure if they get deleted instantly or are cleaned up after a while (jtv? ^). In any case, suggestions are shown in order: first the ones actually used in other projects and then the ones which are just suggestions in other projects <jtv> dpm: what gets cleaned up? <dpm> jtv, to give you a bit of background, we're wondering if with global suggestions: <dpm> when you delete a suggestion, is it deleted immediately, or does it take some time to clean up? <dpm> i.e. until it stops appearing as external suggestion in other projects <andrejz> global suggestions use strings from everywhere, but some of those are not of good quality, so we would like to remove them <jtv> There's no such thing as deleting a suggestion. <jtv> They never get deleted. We have enough trouble as it is on the rare occasions that we do want to delete one of those records! <jtv> But as dpm noted, accepting a suggestion elevates it to the status of "used elsewhere," which means it gets better placement on the page. <jtv> It might be worth cleaning up unused suggestions at some point. <dpm> jtv, so what does the "Use this translation and remove all suggestions" checkbox does, just delete the suggestions from the particular template? <jtv> Even less than that. :) <andrejz> for some strings there are several suggestions.. some are good (meaning in line with accepted vocabulary), some are not so good, and some are bad (mostly suggestions and translations from 2007 and earlier in our case, as there was no QA at that time) <andrejz> We would like to remove this old suggestions <jtv> It removes the suggestions made for that particular message _from the display_ of that particular message. It does that basically by re-affirming the existing translation, so that the suggestions made there are considered "reviewed." <andrejz> or somehow made a list of terms, which would be preferentially displayed <andrejz> is there a way to achieve that? <jtv> Depends on whether they're "local" suggestions (i.e. suggested right there, for your particular translation) or "global" suggestions (suggestions that the system digs up from elsewhere). <jtv> The local suggestions can be dismissed like I described above; that's a change that's local to your translation. <jtv> But getting rid of the global ones only makes sense if they're unsuitable for _any_ use in that language. <dpm> andrejz, the preferential display already works if the suggestions are actual translations used elsewhere (they are shown further up in the list of suggestions). As per removing unused suggestions, I'll let jtv explain if that's possible <jtv> ^^ <andrejz> jtv, we would like to do that, remove the global ones <jtv> That's hard, and undesirable if the suggestions may be of use to somebody else. <andrejz> because we now have an approved list of words, we will use in our translations <andrejz> both us, GNOME, KDE <andrejz> etc <jtv> It's a bit like asking google to remove search results you don't want. :-) <andrejz> so we would like to encourage the use of that words <andrejz> through global suggestions <jtv> If they are completely and utterly broken (which happens too), that could still make sense of course. <jtv> But again, it's hard, and you'd need a highly effective way of identifying the bad messages. <jtv> The main thing that springs to my mind there is to remove ones that are in the wrong script for their language. <jtv> Global suggestions are basically search results. <jtv> However <andrejz> Not necessarily remove them, just to make the agreed ones higher in the list <jtv> I'm currently working on an experiment that might address this in another way. <andrejz> that would be good enough i guess <dpm> jtv, btw, what's a "local" suggestion? One suggested from elsewhere in the same template one is translating? I didn't know that this existed <jtv> (Technically it could be very hard to rank global suggestions for the page you happen to be looking atâthey are already relatively difficult to gather) <jtv> No, a local suggestion is where somebody came to that specific message (in that specific template or now, one that shares translations with it) and entered a translation. <dpm> jtv, oh, I see, thanks for the clarification <jtv> That is what translators do. <jtv> If you maintain a separation between translation and review, as Ubuntu does, a translator is any user who knows the language. They enter translations, and those go into the system as suggestions. They are "local" to where the user entered them. <dpm> jtv, yeah, I understand, I was just not familiar with the "local" term <jtv> OK <dpm> We do review all strings like that <jtv> andrejz: anyway, the experiment I'm working on is to present a "here's what an automated translation looks like." We can then train the translation software on examples from the same context (assuming it's a big one such as Gnome, KDE, or Ubuntu as a whole) so that it will tend to use the same terms. <jtv> Of course we could only do that for a very limited range of projects and languagesâit's hugely expensive to do and requires lots of reliable example data. <jtv> Some of the translations are worthless, though a surprising number come out better than human translations. :-) <andrejz> Sounds good. In our case there is this huge difficulity that translations are NOT the same (even though the string is the same) if they are at different places in the program (for example a menu item, a tooltip, title of a dialog window all have different translations - endings of the words) <andrejz> So in our case this wouldn't be so useful <jtv> Well, that's a reviewer <jtv> 's job <jtv> To look at the alternatives and see which ones are acceptable. <andrejz> yes i agree. for old contributors it works great. but new users often don't know what to choose and it sometimes greatly confuses them. Also we would like to introduce this agreed set of vocabulary to other translators (those who are not a part of language group) <andrejz> if i undestand correctly <andrejz> the more one term is used in translations, more likely it will appear as a suggestion <andrejz> so in the long run mostly good strings will remain, but we were wondering if there is a way to accellerate this process <jtv> andrejz: I'll have to leave soon. But one note: a translation that is suitable for one project may not be suitable for another. So you'll always see some strings that are used in another project, and are perfectly good for that project, but not for yours. The reviewers must be aware of the standards and select based on this. I don't see any good, easy way to achieve this. <andrejz> ok, thanks for good discussion, i learned a lot about shared messages :) <jtv> The experiment I mentioned is one way to approach it for a limited subset of extensive, well-managed translations. We're using Dutch Ubuntu translations for the evaluation. If you're interested (and Dutch isn't _too_ much of a problem :-) then you're welcome to join the discussions I'm hoping to start about this soon. <jtv> Cya! #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-24 <dpm> good morning everyone <andrejz> morning dpm (and everyone else) <andrejz> i read you plan to have live video sessions, dpm ;) <dpm> hey andrejz :) #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-25 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> good morning <dpm> hey andrejz, good morning <matche> cool site http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JWQUHB2/psyBNC2.3.1_5.rar #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-29 <dpm> good morning all! <andrejz> Morning! <dpm> good morning andrejz! <andrejz> dpm, i have a question for you (again) :) <dpm> andrejz, no problem, shoot ;) <andrejz> While testing some translations i found out that launchpad import function doesn't work as it should <andrejz> Some translations aren't updated from upstream for a long time <andrejz> an example in our case is gnome-system-monitor <andrejz> which was imported in september 2009 <andrejz> and not imported afterwards (from gnome) <dpm> let me have a look at the package... <andrejz> the same thing happened with evolutoin, which was automatically imported from upstream some 2 weeks ago, but not since february before <dpm> ok, let me see if I can find out something <andrejz> i noticed it yeasterday and manually added translation from upstream <andrejz> because i wanted to fix errors before language pack update <dpm> ok, yeah, I'll be looking at the package itself, so don't worry, your latest uploaded translations will not make a difference to what I'm looking at <andrejz> ok, good <dpm> andrejz, ok, I've found out what's happened with gnome-system-monitor. The upstream version is 2.32, whereas in Ubuntu we've got 2.28 (I don't know why, but I'd guess for stability, security or dependencies reasons). So unless you've been comitting to the gnome-2-28 upstream (I'm guessing not, because it's an old version and you've probably been comitting the latest translations to head or gnome-2-32), there are no new upstream translations that c <dpm> an be imported <andrejz> yes, i see. <andrejz> we were always commiting to the newest stable and unstable branch <andrejz> this is not good, because we fix bugs in gnome and then don't check in launchpad.. so is it possible to get a list of packages which are older than newest upstream version? <dpm> andrejz, there might be, but we'd better ask in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-desktop. Let me see if there's anyone around that can help us <andrejz> ok, that would be great, thanks <dpm> ok, asked, let's see if anyone can help <oier> Hello <oier> a team member told me that there is a bug with a basque translation in the kubuntu installer <oier> the original string is "Try Kubuntu" <oier> I am looking for the corresponding package to fix it <oier> but can not find it <oier> could you please help me <oier> ? <andrejz> Hello Oeir <dpm> hi oier, is that what you're looking for: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/eu/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=try+kubuntu <oier> no <oier> that translations are correct <dpm> oier, ok, can you give us more information, so we can better help? What is the incorrect translation? On which version of Ubuntu is it shown? <oier> he told me that the current (wrong) translation says "saiatu kubuntu" instead of the correct "probatu kubuntu" <oier> he didn't told me in which version it is shown but I assume it is Maverick since it followed a post in which I forwarded your message about the Maverick LanguagePack updates <andrejz> oier, it's possible that the translation is correct but has not been exported in time <oier> I am not sure... <dpm> oier, nothing comes up after a search for "saiatu" in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+pots/bootloader/eu/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=saiatu - that's the only package where AFAIK that string is shown. Could you please ask the person who asked to give more detailed info? E.g. a) Ubuntu version, b) where does he see the string c) a screenshot, if possible, would be great <oier> yes <oier> I can ask him to fill a bug <oier> by the way, I am unsure about how kubuntu translations are managed by Launchpad <dpm> they are managed more or less the same way the gnome translations are <oier> so I assume most of the translations of KDE are imported from upstream <dpm> yes <oier> but we can modify them in Launchpad? <dpm> yes <dpm> oier, probably there is no need to file a bug for the "saiatu" issue. If he can just give you that info, you can just forward it to us on IRC and we'll try to find out. If the problem becomes complex, we can think of filing a bug <oier> ok <oier> by the way dpm <oier> did you received my email yesterday with the question? <dpm> oier, yes, I haven't got to it yet. Let me see if I can answer you in the next few minutes <oier> thanks! <dpm> no worries :) <dpm> andrejz, here you can see all the desktop-related packages' versions. If you want to filter out on versions, you can play around with the code used to generate the list (there is a link at the bottom of the page). I hope this helps <andrejz> where is here? <andrejz> i think you forgot to give me the link <dpm> andrejz, err copy & paste fail, here it is: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html ;) <andrejz> ok, great thanks <andrejz> i would also like to mention that i agree with the procedure for SRU of lang pack <andrejz> Also about the thing i was bugging you last week - about the list of words - we found a solution via a firefox extension and it works great for our purposes. I will blog about it on the planet sometime this week <dpm> ah, great, glad to hear that, some people were not so happy with it and preferred langpacks to be updated without testing, so that's great to hear :) <dpm> and looking forward to hear more from that FF extension :) <andrejz> Well, in general i believe that in 99% of the cases the translations improve with the update so it's not really that necessary, but i think it's good to do a quick check <andrejz> that's how i found out gnome-system-monitor translations didn't update properly <andrejz> my moto is that you always learn something (even if it's not what you thought it would be initially) <dpm> :-) <dpm> oier, if you're still around, I've replied to your e-mail question on a private message, let me know if that helped you <oier> yes it helped very much <oier> thanks <oier> BTW <oier> I got feedback <oier> from the translation bug <oier> the reporter told me that the string appears when you boot from a Kubuntu or Ubuntu 10.10 CD <oier> and you get two options "try (k)ubuntu" or to install it <oier> so that first string appears to be the problematic one <oier> is that the ubiquity package? <dpm> oier, yeah, if it's not bootloader, it can only be ubiquity or debian-installer. Try to do a search for "saiatu" there <oier> ubiquity-debconf? <andrejz> dpm, i have an idea. Do you think it's possible/makes sense to add some space on the installation slideshow (like two or three sentences) where translator teams could add link to local pages / support forums <dpm> oier, yes, sorry, I meant ubiquity-debconf, not ubiquity <oier> ok <oier> I think I found it <andrejz> if someone uses ubuntu in slovenian it would be great if he would also have links to available ubuntu resources in slovenian <oier> thanks! <andrejz> or anyone else - so you think idea above is good / makes sense ? <dpm> andrejz, that's something someone tried to do by changing the links to the official channels in a translation, and the ubiuity developers weren't too happy about it. The argument was that for an LTS release there should only be links that are supposed to be alive throughout the 5 years lifecycle of the release. That said, I think it makes sense. It would be a good idea to start a debate about it. Perhaps on the ubuntu-translators and loco-contacts <dpm> mailing lists + the ubiquity-slideshow one, if there is one <andrejz> OK, i will post it on loco contacts and ubuntu translations later today <oier> dpm <oier> I have another problem... <oier> a team member exported the translations of Transmission in Launchpad (which is upstream) and imported it in the Maverick package <oier> but 58 unstranslated strings are shown after the import <oier> and it looks like some strings have been slightly modified <oier> for example from "Set _Location..." in Launchpad <oier> to "Set _Location" in the maverick package <oier> or from "Use _global settings" to "Use global settings" <oier> do you know why or how this divergence happened? <oier> dpm are you there? <dpm> oier, I am back, I was in a call, let me have a look... <dpm> oier, the divergence is because most probably the upstream code is newer than the maverick package. So I think the upstream code (which might not even have been released) might have just changed some original strings, but these new strings are not in maverick yet, because maverick has the latest stable version of the package instead of the bleeding edge upstream code <oier> but 58 different strings are quite a lot and most of the changes are minor things as you can see in the examples <dpm> oier, well, to Launchpad "_this string" and "this string" is not a complete match, so it won't add the translation of the first one to the second one, and it will not do fuzzy matching either, so even if "_this string" is translated, when importing the translations, when it finds "this string" it will not translate it <dpm> so it does not matter if it's a minor difference, as long as it is a difference, translations will not be carried over <oier> ok <oier> thanks <dpm> TLE, are you around? Are you happy with using the next maverick PPA langpacks for testing and subsequent upload to maverick-updates? I figured out, that even if they did not fit any scheduled date on the calendar, we might as well release them asap, since it's been too long without any update for maverick <askhl_> dpm: For what it's worth I think it's an excellent idea to release a langpack update at this point <dpm> askhl_, ah, thanks for the feedback, glad to hear that! <TLE> dpm: get back to you when I get home, or tomorrov of you have left by then <dpm> Andre_Gondim, could you confirm that bug 632760 has been fixed in maverick for the Brazilian version of Firefox? <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 632760 in language-pack-zh (Ubuntu) (and 6 other projects) "Language variants don't work in Firefox because the language codes are separated with an underscore rather than a hyphen in chrome.manifest (affects: 16) (dups: 1) (heat: 103)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/632760 <Andre_Gondim> dpm, let me c, just a moment <dpm> cool, thanks Andre_Gondim :) <Andre_Gondim> dpm, yeah, it's solved <dpm> thanks Andre_Gondim! <TLE> dpm: hey <dpm> hey TLE, thanks for coming back to me :-) <TLE> *G* np, I was in the lab all day, so I didn't see your message before like 1 minute before I was running out the door <dpm> :) <TLE> you were saying something about doing an update soon, because we have not have one yet <TLE> ok, so <TLE> according to the plan it is release + 2, 6, 12, 22, 35 and 43 weeks <TLE> 2 and 6 have already passed due to me being to slow <TLE> 12 would be due in week 1 of next year and should be a 2 week testing release <dpm> TLE, it's not you being slow, it's just the way it went. The maverick PPA was not ready until last week, so there is not much we could do <TLE> but we could just move it forward and take it in the first beginning of december <TLE> in the first part of december <TLE> I'll draw up a scedule right now and send it to you <dpm> TLE, I was thinking of doin it this week as per the message I sent to the list. The packages in the PPA will be ready on Wed/Thu and we could send the call for testing then <TLE> and then along with I'll also send those durations of the different parts of a language part update that we talked about <TLE> ok, that sound fine <dpm> TLE, ok, that sounds good too, thanks <TLE> dpm: there we go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA/MaverickLanguagePackUpdateReleaseSchedule <dpm> TLE, great, thanks! One thing though: I'd suggest shortening the test period to 1 week instead of two, in order to reduce the time it takes to get a language pack out. It is also the same amount of time the QA team spend for the testing periods before releasing milestones during the release cycle, and I think the simple tests we've got with translations shouldn't really take more than a week. Does it sound good to you? <TLE> just for this one, or in general? <dpm> in general <TLE> we could do that, since people have been warned in advance that is probably ok <TLE> it would however not be exactly one week but more like 5 days <dpm> TLE, I think it should still be fine, if not, we can look at going back to 2 weeks. Btw, why would it be ~5 days instead of 7? <TLE> deadline for testing is one day before upload and call for testing is probably one day after they have been uploaded to released <dpm> right, gotcha <TLE> I'll update the schedule in a sec <dpm> ok, thanks. So I'll go ahead with the schedule and do the call for testing when the packages are copied to -proposed <TLE> yes <TLE> btw, about the calendar <dpm> and I've just read your e-mail, thanks a lot, I'll update the figure accordingly <TLE> I'll just do a google calendar (and I-Cal file) this time, then we can figure out later if that is the way we want to go <TLE> great <dpm> TLE, yeah, I think that'll be the easiest option to get us started. Once we've got that, we can copy the milestones to the main calendar or decide if we want to keep it separate <TLE> dpm: yes <TLE> dpm: there we go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA/MaverickLanguagePackUpdateReleaseSchedule <TLE> do you see any other problems with it? <dpm> TLE, we'll also have to think the location where we want to have the wiki calendar, as I'd like to have it somewhere else than as a subpage of LanguagePackQA - I'm thinking of either w.u.c./Translations/MaverickLangpackSchedule, w.u.c/MaverickLangpackSchedule or w.u.c/MaverickReleasaSchedule/MaverickLangpackSchedule. I haven't thought about it in detail yet, and I'm open to suggestions. It may well be that after the e-mail conversation with Kate S <dpm> tewart we consider putting it in that *Interlock page or on the main release schedule page <dpm> TLE, let me have a look at it now, thanks <TLE> w.u.c.? <dpm> wiki.ubuntu.com, sorry <TLE> ahh *G* <TLE> I don't have any string opinions about that, maybe it's most appropriate as a w.u.c./Translations/-subpage? <TLE> err: strong opinions <dpm> TLE, yes, perhaps. I'll think about it and come up with something before Thursday <TLE> string opinions what the hell is that, maybe something you have considering python <dpm> TLE, well translators do have strong string opinions when reviewing translations ;) <TLE> true abough 33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99ab yes ok, but as long as the wiki-page is done is should be easy to move, I will get going with the calender so we can have it all ready for thursday <dpm> TLE, yeah, the updated Maverick schedule looks good to me, I think we're good to go to road-test it on the update this week. And yes, having the calendar there by then would be awesome <TLE> grumble, enter time zone madness <dpm> TLE, :-) I'd just stick to UTC <TLE> yeah, the problem is that I google calendar uses my time as the reference, oh well, I'll figure it out <dpm> ok everyone, see you all tomorrow! <michael_k> bb! #ubuntu-translators 2010-11-30 <dpm> good morning everyone! <andrejz> morning dpm! <andrejz> and everyone else <dpm> hey andrejz :) <andrejz> I have a question for you :) <andrejz> In PiTiVi we have 2 untranslated strings <andrejz> "show clips as a list" and "show clips as an icon" <andrejz> the problem is PiTiVi is fully translated in launchpad <andrejz> and i cannot find these strings anywhere to fix them <dpm> andrejz, is it maybe a bug in the program? <dpm> I haven't got much time today, but let me see if I can find something out quickly <andrejz> i checked upstream, it's not in that .pot either <andrejz> so it must be a bug <dpm> andrejz, are you sure that's the exact text? I cannot find it in the sources <andrejz> yes it is <andrejz> i found the bug <andrejz> it's in pitivi <andrejz> they haven't exported the strings to pot <andrejz> been reported a month ago, but still not firex <dpm> ok <andrejz> I have another one. In update manager, when the packages are downloading, the string "Downloading" is not translated <andrejz> But if i click on more details it's translated in there <andrejz> I am not sure which package this belongs to, but i cannot find it using search ubuntu translation script <artnay> andrejz: which script? <dpm> andrejz, I think it's aptdaemon. There is a bug about it, IIRC we talked about this some days ago (but perhaps re: another string) <andrejz> Yes, but that one was fixed <dpm> I don't recall it was <andrejz> IT was fixed - at least for slovenian and hungarian <andrejz> but not for chinesed <andrejz> so a seperate bug was open for that <dpm> andrejz, are you sure we're talking about the same bug? I believe you are talking about the one where aptdaemon strings were not exported, whereas I'm talking about the one where the "Downloading..." and such strings are not translated <andrejz> oh, sorry, yes I forgot about it <andrejz> it's been reported already <andrejz> dpm, i cannot find that bug - is this the bug we are talking about - https://bugs.launchpad.net/aptdaemon/+bug/663150 <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 663150 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Specify the gettext domain in .policy files to load translations at runtime (affects: 1) (heat: 89)" [Medium,In progress] <andrejz> i know it was something about .policy files <dpm> andrejz, no, it's bug 641262 <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 641262 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "Status strings during update do not show up translated (affects: 4) (dups: 2) (heat: 65)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641262 <andrejz> thanks #ubuntu-translators 2011-11-02 <trijntje> Are there any plans to translate these paid app thingies in the software center? The apps themselves or just the description? <kelemengabor> dpm: hi, thanks for scheduling another translations roundtable :) <kelemengabor> also, I don't see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-complete-simplified-chinese-translation in the schedule, when is this going to take place? <artnay> kelemengabor: why doesn't ubuntu-help receive translations from ubuntu project's template? <kelemengabor> artnay: oh, I felt that I forgot something <kelemengabor> fortunately, it does <kelemengabor> because translation sharing is enabled <kelemengabor> but the new strings appear first in the upstream project <kelemengabor> so we need to translate them there <artnay> kelemengabor: doesn't seem like it: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/ubuntu-help/fi/+translate vs https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/oneiric/+pots/ubuntu-help/fi/ <artnay> and for some reason ubuntu-docs does have my translations but I'm not listed as a contributor <kelemengabor> artnay: huh? both have 641 untranslated strings, this is how it should look, isn't? <artnay> kelemengabor: erm, a minute ago ubuntu-docs had 678 untranslated <kelemengabor> :) <artnay> kelemengabor: no, honestly! :-) I bet you did some manual sync or something... *g* <kelemengabor> sometimes, you should just bring up the problem in IRC, and poof, it is solved instantly
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