#ubuntu-nz 2010-12-01 <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> oh yeah morning :) <Atamira> its going to be a muggy day <ajmitch_> morning <Guest57897> morning <ojwb> ah, better <ojwb> morning <Atamira> restart <hads> Morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-02 <ojwb> anyone from catalyst - which level is the "boardroom" on? <ibeardslee> Level 6 <ibeardslee> with reception <ojwb> ibeardslee: thanks <ojwb> that'll cut down the amount of ventilation duct I need to crawl through <ibeardslee> ojwb: ? * ojwb holds up his "joke" sign <ibeardslee> oh .. right * ibeardslee is still working in slightly slow mode after the ZooDoo last night <ajmitch> ibeardslee: you obviously need it to be friday afternoon <ibeardslee> ajmitch: it sort of is, I have tomorrow off to head up to Auckland to shoot people <ajmitch> more paintball fun? <ibeardslee> yeap <ajmitch> want to swap? <ibeardslee> http://www.msc.org.nz/node/35 <ibeardslee> ajmitch: depends .. what do you have to swap with? <ajmitch> um <ajmitch> a fun-filled afternoon in an office? <ibeardslee> oh ... /me could have been interested if to was lying a yacht, attended by several scantily clad women serving cocktails and caviar <ajmitch> lying on a yacht in dunedin? it'd have to be a rather hot day for that to happen <ibeardslee> yeah hmm ummm not a very convincing reason to swap ;) <ajmitch> it was worth a try <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <hads> Morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-05 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <ojwb> morning <hads> Morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <snail> morning all <chrismsnz> morning <chrismsnz> hey anybody here attend nzlug? <MakX> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-06 <ojwb> hmm, my netbook battery is still reporting 100% despite the power being off for 20-30 minutes <mwhudson_> ojwb: magic! <ojwb> it's drifted down into the 90s now <ojwb> i guess perpetual motion is hard to sustain <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> wth <mwhudson> i just got ascii art spam <thumper> morning <ojwb> mwhudson: hard to spam filter I guess <ojwb> kind of like image spam <mwhudson> yeah <mwhudson> the thing is, i had to make emacs wider than my 1920 pixel display to be able to see it properly <mwhudson> just another weird thing on the internet i guess <ojwb> it's probably not aimed at you <ojwb> I'd guess it would be HTML with a tiny font size and fixed width font <mwhudson> ah yes, probably <mwhudson> ojwb: russian bride spam not aimed at me? <mwhudson> i'm shocked, shocked <mwhudson> i doubt much spam is aimed at people who read email in emacs <ojwb> mwhudson: i certainly get more viagra spam than emacsagra spam <snail> i, for one, would welcome some emacsagra spam... #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-07 <Atamira> morena <ibeardslee> morning <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-08 <ibeardslee> morning .. back in a bit <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> morning again <Atamira> beautiful day up here <ibeardslee> I just about got cooked on the weekend in Auckland <ibeardslee> it was insane <Atamira> heh <Atamira> gotta have your sun block <Atamira> or just dont leave the house during the day <ibeardslee> thnakfully we were in bush a bit <ibeardslee> http://www.msc.org.nz/image/tid/18 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> umm..why the hardware? <Atamira> territorials? <ibeardslee> milsim <ibeardslee> paintball <Atamira> ahh..and you came all the way up here to play? <Atamira> dont they have paintball in the sth? <ibeardslee> yeap <ibeardslee> they do <ibeardslee> there are a bunc of other photos on that site from games down this way <ibeardslee> there is generally a game in Welly every thursday and we are trying to get more regular weekend ones happening <Atamira> i saw alot of trees <Atamira> seen one tree, you seen them all :P <ibeardslee> heh <Atamira> not that i have anything against trees. im a tree hugger <ibeardslee> trees are good * ibeardslee gets carried away retweeting <ibeardslee> well not really really carried away <Atamira> oops <Atamira> i just fell asleep <Atamira> im out <Atamira> nite nite * ajmitch is glad that he doesn't do night shift :) <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> sometimes I think it could be something good to do * hads did it once, was fun #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-09 <Bacta> Hai all <Bacta> Except ikonia <Atamira> mornin <ajmitch> morning <ibeardslee> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-10 <ojwb> karora: I trust you found your mojo? * karora is firmly in possession of his mojo :-) <ojwb> good, good <mwhudson> is there something i'm doing wrong, or are telstraclear's dns servers really a bit slow? <ibeardslee> I understand that being based in Wellington .. most of the t/c resources are in AK <ibeardslee> don't quote me on that though #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-12 <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-13 <Bacta> Hai all <snail> morning all <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> pouring with rain here <ibeardslee> no rain here .. unless the thick fog/mist could be classed as rain <Atamira> was just a mist earlier this morning..now its full blown rain <Atamira> warm tho..no breeze to speak of <Atamira> so even tho i got soaking wet on the scooter <Atamira> it wasnt a big deal <ibeardslee> that does suck a bit .. pouring rain so you need wet weather gear .. but at the same time you'd rather be in shorts and t-shirt <Atamira> yeah..i take a jacket which is about it <Atamira> but its ok. its still humid with the rain <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> now lets hope it doesnt rain tomorrow <Atamira> ill be screwed with no jacket, and no shoes ..heh <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> http://blog.canonical.com/?p=498 <thumper> afternoon #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-14 <ol> 5~5~ * ol coughs * Atamira deodorises ol general area of coughiness <karora> good evening :-) <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> question..whats linux standard file system?..ext 2 or fat32? <ibeardslee> ext3 ? <Atamira> or ext3 <ajmitch> or ext4 now for a lot of distros <Atamira> so if a external hdd is formatted in fat32..it should work on linux? specially ubuntu? <ibeardslee> yes <Atamira> well..then i guess im taking this back..cause its not working <ibeardslee> is it a big drive? <ibeardslee> because I've come across some formatted NTFS <Atamira> naa..320gigs. <Atamira> its a usb mobile hdd <ibeardslee> yup <Atamira> works on the windows machine, but not in here <Atamira> right..off to jb hifi now that its open <ibeardslee> that'll be fun .. because it obviously works (on windows) <ibeardslee> you are sure it's fat32 rather than ntfs? <ajmitch> any recent external drive I've seen is ntfs <ajmitch> which Just Worked when plugging into my laptop running ubuntu <Atamira> the guy at the store says its fat32 <Atamira> documentation for this thing says fat32 or ntfs <Atamira> it works on windows only <Atamira> neway..bbiab * ibeardslee nods at the knowledgable staff at places like jb hifi and dse <Atamira> they had to find one who actually did anything on linux <Atamira> cant be that good..cause he thought linux was formatted with fat32 <Atamira> its a standard he said <ajmitch> it's useful having a 1.5TB external drive that I can plug in to my laptop :) <ajmitch> in other words they looked around the store for someone who'd seen a linux cd a few years ago but who'd never run it :P <Atamira> ajmitch, i have a 1TB one..but i wanted a smaller one to swap with friends at work so i didnt have to lug the terabyte one around <Atamira> finding a spare power point at work is a mission <Atamira> one of the guys had a 320gb usb external hdd <Atamira> quite handy <ajmitch> yeah, the ones powered from the usb port are better for mobility <Atamira> yep. <Atamira> neway..out for a bit <thumper> morning <Atamira> woot..got a new one and this one works right out of the box <ibeardslee> kewl <Atamira> now to change the permissions on it so i can write to it <Atamira> ugh.too tired to do that now.. <Atamira> im going to bed <Atamira> oh and a side note <Atamira> that hdd is formatted in msdos #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-15 <karora> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2 <karora> That's just awesome :-) <ajmitch> amusing * karora is really curious about how many eyeballs are going over the OpenBSD networking code right now... <ojwb> and now, openbsdleaks <ojwb> if they really tried to get backdoors into openbsd code, it's a pretty safe bet they've got backdoors into windows <ibeardslee> and mac <ojwb> indeed <ibeardslee> if it is true .. that is so scarey <ojwb> widespread use of strong crypto is quite scary if you're the fbi <thumper> heh <mwhudson> mmm <mwhudson> seems just a little too closer to a security wonks wet drea^W^Wparanoid fantasy to ring true to me <snail> karora: reading that email, i suspect that the first email has been cleverly forged by someone who knows Theo's buttons are <snail> but it's not a bad thing if it encourages a few dozen people to pore over the code in question <ojwb> if it is forged, the "sender" probably isn't going to be too happy <ojwb> even if they deny having sent it, a significant number of people won't believe them <mwhudson> on thinking about it <mwhudson> "My NDA with the FBI has recently expired" doesn't seem very likely <ojwb> yeah, i wondered about that <ojwb> some NDAs probably do expire, but it seems an unlikely clause to put in if you're funding backdoors getting put in software <snail> ojwb: commercial NDAs expire, but the NDA that i signed when I joined trimble was based on the USA DoD one (because they do/did DoD work), and it was non-terminating <snail> any ex-VUW people who're interested in what's happening in the quad these days: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251834&id=577341636&l=a8a320836e <karora> Other people will be better placed to ascertain the truth of that e-mail, but it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility to me. <ojwb> i could easily believe either <ojwb> or indeed both (that the FBI paid to get a backdoor added, but that the mail is a forgery) <mwhudson> heh <snail> the core talent of a good troll is knowing how to keep things just within the realm of possibility <mwhudson> that would have a certain irony <ojwb> one of the people dropped in it by the mail has denied any FBI connections <ojwb> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129237981610360&w=2 <mwhudson> of course he would say that! * mwhudson gets the popcorn <snail> or that the FBI planted a fake email to deprive wikileaks of technical resource in the short term <ajmitch> all so very amusing:) <ojwb> do wikileaks rely on ipsec VPNs? <snail> ojwb: who knows? <ojwb> the fbi? <snail> interesting phrase: "affiliated with or employed by the FBI" surely you're affiliated or employed by a front company, not directly by the FBI? * snail knows very little of the details here <ojwb> the next two sentences suggest that's not a deliberate loop hole in though <Atamira> eeepp..talking <Atamira> actual talking <ojwb> morning <Atamira> afternoon <Atamira> its stinking hot <hads> Sure is <snail> Atamira: technically typing ... <Atamira> snail, :P * mwhudson is reminded of http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2010/05/10/100510crat_atlarge_gladwell?currentPage=all <Atamira> ewww..garlic flavoured chocolate <mwhudson> (which is an extremely fun read in any case) <Atamira> yea..could be a book <Atamira> or even a play <mwhudson> it's in Cryptonomicon <Atamira> its in what? <Atamira> ahh <mwhudson> a book by neal stephenson <Atamira> gotta love google * ajmitch should probably read that <ajmitch> I bought it a little while ago & intended to read it :) <mwhudson> it's fun <mwhudson> mind you, i probably read it 10 years ago <mwhudson> that's a bit depressing <ojwb> no, it's good to be able to remember things you did 10 years ago <mwhudson> i guess :) <ojwb> well, I assume it would be <Atamira> heh..ive read so many books over the years <Atamira> that i dont realise ive read it till ive started reading it again <mwhudson> i had a moment in arty bees the other week <mwhudson> i picked up a book, nearly bought it <mwhudson> then realized at the last minute that i'd already bought it (from arty bees, too) <Atamira> lol <mwhudson> then got home and realized i'd _read_ it too <mwhudson> doesn't say too much for the book... <Atamira> heheh <Atamira> i hate reading a book then getting nearly to the end and realising ive already read it <ibeardslee> I love reading a book I know I've read and can't remember how it finishes <Atamira> ahh...arty bees sounds like the one in onehunga i used to go to..the 'hard to find bookshop' shop <mwhudson> it's a dangerous place <ibeardslee> you need to setup koha ;) <Atamira> all bookshops are dangerous places for book lovers <Atamira> koha? * snail works in a library = inoculation against such risks <ibeardslee> http://koha-community.org/ <snail> looks like greenstone is going closed source, got an email today from a waikato paralegal after my residential mailing address. the only thing i can imagine they want is my greenstone copyrights... <ibeardslee> you could sell them for lots of $$ <snail> ibeardslee: i have my fingerprints on a very small number of files, and they have/had a decent version control system <ibeardslee> morning <snail> anyone else find drpobox consuming 100% of a cpu this morning? <ibeardslee> not me <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning <mwhudson> morning <snail> on a sane keyoard, how do i type "Super + M" ? <ajmitch> usually it's the key with a funny windows symbol <ajmitch> but on a sane keyboard? <ibeardslee> the little apple key? <mwhudson> "the one that's not alt or control" <Atamira> mornin #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-16 <Bacta> Hai trolls <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> mornin ! #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-17 <somebody_> nick zapzupnz <somebody_> err <zapzupnz> better #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-19 <ibeardslee> morning <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-20 <Atamira> mornin all <Atamira> oh..afternoon all <ojwb> afternoon <snail> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> what an icky wet humid to take the bus to work <ibeardslee> .. put 'day' in there somewhere for better reading comprehension <Atamira> morning <snail> ibeardslee: the meaning was perfectly clear without the word 'day' <ajmitch> morning <thumper> morning <hads> morn #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-21 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> nice sunny day today <ibeardslee> looks like it is going to turn that way later down here <ibeardslee> was quite the foggy/misty morning <Atamira> nice <Atamira> tho its going to be hot to sleep today <hads> Stupid wind. <snail> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> it has been a little breezy, hasn't it? <thumper> that it has <snail> i really have to ask myself why: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4478817/YahooXtra-to-revive-online-shopping-portal <ibeardslee> tax break with the loss? #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-22 <thumper> anyone have sed foo? <thumper> of sed fu? * ibeardslee has used it <thumper> I want to replace some strings in a shed load of files in a whole pile of directories <thumper> s/DEBUG:/DEBUG/g <thumper> over a lot of files <ibeardslee> ohhh .. something I've done(ish) <snail> thumper: you want to use a perl one liner, which an in place option i believe <thumper> perl is fine <ibeardslee> for F in *.*; do sed -i s/DEBUG:/DEBUG/ $F; done <ibeardslee> that should do all files in one directory <thumper> ibeardslee: recursively over files? <thumper> find . -name "*.py" | xargs ... ? <lifeless> xargs -n1 ... <ojwb> lifeless: there's no need for -n1 - all that'll serve to do is make it take longer... <lifeless> ojwb: depends on your sed, I think :) <ojwb> perhaps, i'd tend to use perl there myself, but I'm pretty sure GNU sed has been like that for some time <Atamira> mornin <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> beautiful day here today <Atamira> ive been told it might be a tad windy down your way <ibeardslee> beautiful and still at the moment .. forgot to bring the camera into get a photo of the pÅhutakawa I can see out the window <ibeardslee> it looks even more stunning with the blue sky int he background and the sun bringing out the red and gree <ajmitch> morning <snail> howdy all #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-23 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> and merry xmas eve to you <ajmitch> morning * ajmitch hopes we can all stay away from our computers tomorrow :) <ibeardslee> and a happy winter solstice celebration celebrated in our summer to you <ibeardslee> ajmitch: but surely your'll be twittering the opening of pressies etc? * Atamira has to work tonight :( * Atamira is going to sleep through xmas lunches <ibeardslee> probably the best thing <ibeardslee> just too much eating that goes on at this time of the year <ajmitch> ibeardslee: I'm not a twit <ibeardslee> fartbooking? <Atamira> nothing wrong with fartbooking :P <Atamira> its the only way to keep track of fellow workers..hehe <ajmitch> yay for wind & rain today, after so many nice days <Atamira> yay for nice days <Atamira> after wind & rain for so many days #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-24 <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <Atamira> merry xmas all <karora> Merry christmas :-) #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-27 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-28 <hads> Morning <Atamira> evening <ibeardslee> evening <ibeardslee> everyone ready to get back to work tomorrow? <ajmitch> ibeardslee: why, are we meant to be back at work then? <ibeardslee> sure .. no rest for the absolutely amazing <Atamira> pfft <Atamira> i havent had a day off yet <Atamira> oh i lie <Atamira> i didnt work xmas day <Atamira> big woop <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> mornin #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-29 <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> ^^ that took 4 goes to get right <Atamira> lol <Atamira> morning <Atamira> and nite <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-30 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> morning #ubuntu-nz 2010-12-31 <hads> Morning <Atamira> its early evening now <thumper> happy new year :-) <zapzupnz> happy new year to you <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> & happy new year <Atamira> afternoon <Atamira> and happy new year to all #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-01 <ibeardslee> gee today is a "don't talk about .." day isn't it? <ibeardslee> banks, december .. anything else? <ojwb> elections? <ajmitch> counting down to the next election already? <ibeardslee> well the revolution anyway <ojwb> on the plus side, at least it's only 3 years here <ibeardslee> and in that time the retards that are in have plety of time to sell our assets and soverignty to foreign corporates <hads> THe banks go out of their way to look good in public saying "We'll cover any fraudulent charges on your card". In reality they take the money back off the retailer so they aren't out of pocket. <hads> Asking their merchant services for more support to combat fraud this morning was met with "Not our problem" :( <ojwb> really, the public end up paying through higher prices <G> hads: yeah I saw on Twitter, that really sucks <ojwb> ibeardslee: yeah, but think of the damage they could do in 4 or 5 years <G> hads: what did the ASB Twitter people say in the end? * ojwb wonders when moaning about stuff on twitter became the only way to actually get companies to do stuff <hads> G: No response yet. <hads> ojwb: I know. Sad. It works though. <G> ojwb: I don't know, but I found the magic of twitter in `09 with Telstra Australia <G> for some reason my landline account was setup as a "Sole Trader" account, which meant that I couldn't use their online services etc site. Telstra owned shops & call centres etc, were all "There is nothing we can do without disconnecting everything and reconnecting everything, but it'll break your ADSL completely" somehow their Twitter people fixed it near instantly <hads> heh <G> (with no disruption to any services as well) <G> but yeah, they'd get like 5 people out in their shop to look at my account and just come up with "I don't know" * ojwb wonders what telstra clear will be like this weekend with free data <ojwb> at least they don't peer much, so hopefully it should affect the rest of us <G> is there anything on iPredict? :P <G> ojwb: I thought they peered a lot <ojwb> aren't they famous for not peering? <ojwb> perhaps I'm confused <G> ojwb: iirc they don't peer in APE/WIX/etc but they peer with other ISPs to provide international transit * ojwb adds a "not" after "should" above <ojwb> ah <ojwb> that'll be what I'm thinking of I guess <G> http://www.adslgeek.com/isps/nzispmap <G> although that looks outdated <G> I saw a better/different one recently <G> ahhh: http://www.ispmap.co.nz/topmap.html is the one I was thinking of * ojwb wonders if odyssey are shifted right just to fit it in less vertical space <G> ojwb: I think so, but I'm pretty certain there are some errors there <ojwb> the line routing algorithm isn't the best either <ibeardslee> their peering is shit <G> because iirc Orcon are now buying direct from Southern Cross, and doing all that stuff themselves (so they should now be an Orange Box) <ibeardslee> on my telstraclear cable it is quicker to get my ubuntu updates from Australia than any of the local mirrors <ojwb> G: for how long? that's dated march <lifeless> G: thankyouthankyouthankyou <G> ojwb: it was sometime around March that happened iirc, remember reading up on it on Twitter <G> lifeless: for the map? no problem <ojwb> yeah, it's useful to have, even if perhaps not fully up to date <lifeless> G: I've been looking to find anyone other than xtra but getting precious little data <lifeless> G: this gives me a place to start digging from <G> lifeless: I find Xtra/Telecom to be pretty good data wise... that said, I only get 2Mbps to the exchange, so that might have a bearing <lifeless> G: I can't get > ~0.2MBps from overseas <lifeless> G: gaming etc has shocking packet loss <lifeless> G: and to boot their ADSL pop appears to reboot or something several times a day <G> oh the other thing with that map that I'm not sure about, is the Actrix entry, pretty sure they always got their data (except in teh Go Large days) from TelstraClear <G> lifeless: wow, that doesn't sound right, (silly question, but it's not the house wiring right?) <lifeless> G: they have line tested it several times... no fault found <lifeless> G: intra-NZ traffic I can pull 10-15MBps <G> lifeless: I'm in the process of going postal on the phone line in my house atm, doing a DIY Central Splitter installation to boycott the rubbish in-house wiring etc <G> lifeless: odd, but the reboots would be the worst bit imo right? Have they reset the port you are on/changed it etc? <ojwb> I suspect much in-house phone cabling has been good enough for a phone extension, but adsl pushes it rather more <lifeless> G: I don't know - its a bit hard to get through to the righ tpeople <lifeless> G: you have to fight through a malaysian helpdesk first <G> lifeless: apparently if you contact via the website you go direct to L2 <ojwb> shiboleet! <lifeless> G: ! <ojwb> sadly I suspect that rarely actually works, as the front line probably don't read xkcd <G> lifeless: I heard that on Geekzone, no idea how accurate that is/if it still happens, but wouldn't be surprised <G> lifeless: I also find that ringing Telecom at ~2pm avoids the Malaysian call centre (not sure if that applys to the Xtra helpdesk or not though) <ojwb> heh <ojwb> is that middle of the night there/ <ojwb> timezone still do my head in <G> ojwb: yeah, well the house wiring here is older than me, (has been updated over time) but I'm assuming the person that did it, was also the sparkie that wired the mains etc <ojwb> adsl has to be one of the most successful (particularly in terms of number of deployments) hacks in history <G> Spotted a great 'oddity' in the wiring the other week... wall lights next to the bed in a bedroom, are on a completely different circuit (we have no idea which) to the ceiling light in the same room <G> the other one I 'like' is that, the lighting circuits, are based on either the far side of the house, or the near side ofthe house to the breaker board, not based on upstairs/downstairs (and there are even more exceptions to that) <ojwb> wall lights and ceiling lights on different circuits is fairly common in my experience <ojwb> (also useful sometimes) <G> ojwb: but that would likely mean that they'd have to be on the power-point circuits I think (by process of elimination) <ojwb> the near/far sounds creative though <ojwb> G: that's not so good <ojwb> the main oddity in our wiring is the number of light switches which don't seem to do anything <G> ojwb: iirc there are only two lighting circuit breakers, so it'd be a bit odd to wire a light in the far near side to the far side circuit :P <G> but yeah, the best is the phone wiring, the phone wiring basically does a complete loop of the house before it gets to the 'office' that the modem is located <G> there must be something crazy like 20-30m of telephone cable in the house before the modem, and I bet some is sitting next to mains cables <ojwb> standard practice in the UK seemed to be to just run it along the top of the skirting and up/across/down at every doorway - cheaper and less disruptive to install I guess, and pre adsl the length of the run wasn't a big issue <G> ojwb: yeah, at least in NZ Telecom from a very early point developed pretty decent standards <ojwb> was it always legal here to wire your own phone cabling? <ojwb> (actually, is it now?) <G> ojwb: I've got a feeling it has been, from the demarc point you can do whatever you want <G> ojwb: yep <G> ojwb: but the point from where you can wire can be messy <G> depends which document you read, and how you read it, (went through this issue myself) <G> (a quick summary, because I'm heading out in a sec: one document says from the first jackpoint, the document that replaced the first, says from where the cable enters the house, the third document which replaces the 2nd for new work, goes back to the first documents rules, but the 2nd document says you can ignor ethe 3rd document for existing wiring if you want) <ojwb> it'll probably be hard to prove when you did it for existing wiring anyway <G> ojwb: I can explain it in a bit mor edetail later if you ar einterested, but yeah, I had a headache after reading everything <ojwb> i think I might just ask if it ever becomes relevant... <mwhudson> http://www.ispmap.co.nz/topmap.html is interesting <mwhudson> i wonder if reach have stopped screwing up telstra's routing yet <chilts> copyright 1995-2005 ... he's been doing it a while, but maybe stopped updating it now? <ojwb> or not updating the copyright dates <ojwb> says "Generated 30 March 2011" <hads> Just in case anyone needs to find out if a domain is a free email provider, I received a list of 28k domains; http://quick.nice.net.nz/freemail/?domain=hotmail.com * ojwb wonders how good a list it is <hads> Me too. If it covers $SOME I'll take it, I'm just using it for scoring. <ojwb> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10770047 <ojwb> hads: not really looked at spam, but at least for attempts to sign up to trac, it seems to be almost all gmail or throw away domains <ojwb> sadly gmail is split between spammers and a significant proportion of genuine users <hads> Yeah, same with orders, hence the whole scoring and flaging thing. <ojwb> in case you haven't seen them, there are various site to track forum spammers - not sure how well the addresses and IPs would correspond to what you'll get though <ojwb> e.g. http://www.stopforumspam.com/ <ojwb> http://quick.nice.net.nz/freemail/?domain=mailinator.com says "False" <hads> Cheers. This side of things is mostly to combat stolen credit cards being used by New Zealanders so probably not a lot of overlap there. * ajmitch shall remember to not order anything using a free email account then :) * ojwb is wondering if this was why ascent seemed so paranoid about the laptop I bought from them <ajmitch> you paid by credit card using a free account? <ojwb> i think I probably used my gmail account for that - i tend to as places you buy stuff from seem to love to add you to their mailing list <ojwb> and it can be really hard to get off <ajmitch> yeah, I seem to have got onto some australian daily deals newsletter <ajmitch> so that got flagged as spam <ojwb> yeah, I figure getting such people onto google's spam filter list is at least some revenge <ojwb> btw, I seem to be getting spam as a result of attending cloudcamp in wellington <ojwb> so be wary of giving a useful email address if you go to one <ojwb> wasn't all that interesting really either <hads> I think the highest scoring variable will be what country the credit card comes from. Getting the database for that is a bit of a mission though. <ojwb> mostly seemed to be mike riversdale repeatedly asserting that if you aren't paying for it, it's not worth anything <ojwb> ... at and event he's attending for free * ajmitch looks for new toys to buy <ojwb> i think he tried to build a business on google wave and suspect he is rather bitter about it <ajmitch> ah, early adopters <ojwb> something like that <ojwb> it does pay to think exactly what's going on when you get something for nothing <ajmitch> getting burnt by failed products must be a pain * ojwb does wonder about the wisdom of companies who direct costumers to their facebook and twitter pages directly - seems to be giving a lot of power to a company you've no real relationship with <hads> Indeed <G> hads: surely it's just the BIN numbers (first 6 digits, I could provide say 3-4 bin numbers for instance if you want toa start compiling a list <G> ojwb: Apache Foundation have a wave compilant server though, so it's not all lost really <ojwb> G: it's not google wave hype compliant though... <G> true, saying "This product revolves around a product that Google invented then dumped" isn't a good selling point I guess :P <chilts> I just wasn't ever impressed by wave - it was a Friday afternoon gimmick and then I never used it again <chilts> _far_ _too_ _slow_ <hads> G: Yup, just the BIN numbers compared to issuing banks. You can buy a database online for $$$. I asked the bank to help but they wouldn't give it up for "security" reasons. <ojwb> i guess you could compile a list of the prefixes which have been regularly used in past good transactions <ojwb> or you could start to, hopefully you aren't keeping the numbers around <hads> Yeah, not keeping numbers around. <G> hads: yeah, if you want I can send you a sample of ones that I have around the house/know to start a collection <hads> G: Thanks for the offer, I'll let you know if I decide to go down that route. There are a couple places you can look up for free online manually too. <G> hads: most iirc restrict that to non-commercial interests etc, and I bet they aren't as up to date on NZ ones etc <hads> There are a couple of commercial databases that claim to be up to date. <hads> There's also MaxMind who offer a API for a small cost. <G> yeah, the MaxMind one would prob be not bad <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> morning <ibeardslee> damn spent too long opening other windows first <Atamira> morning <mwhudson> morning <hads> morning <ajmitch> morning * sadsun waves <ojwb> morning <chilts> TFI Friday! :) <ibeardslee> heh .. so in a way I'm glad I haven't got too carried away with the arduino project stuff I was wanting to do <chilts> how come? <ibeardslee> 1.0 has just been released .. and I would have got myself too confused <ajmitch> how different is it? <ibeardslee> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/12/arduino-1-0-is-out-heres-what-you-need-to-know.html <thumper> morning * ibeardslee carries on abuse the fuck out of ubuntu/thunderbird/lightning <ibeardslee> has anyone been able to completely replace evolution with thunderbird/lightning? <ibeardslee> I'm still stuck needing evolution for calendars <ajmitch> nope, I tend to use google calendar <ajmitch> though only for work, I'm not exactly a heavy user of it <hads> Yeah, I use Google calendar too, working by myself I don't rely on a calendar much though. <ibeardslee> we have a calendar server internally that has the meeting rooms, team schedules etc <ojwb> thunderbird and lightning? very very frightening... <ojwb> karora knows a bit about calendaring I hear <ibeardslee> yeah, we are using the DAViCal server <ibeardslee> but it's a lightning/gnome/unity issue <ojwb> ah, ok <ibeardslee> the date time applet in the bar up top can display events in the calendar .. but not the lightning calendar .. can't make it the default calendar in Oneiric <ibeardslee> this might be the solution .. http://mikeconley.ca/blog/2011/08/11/fiddling-with-an-eds-provider-for-lightning-calendar/ <ibeardslee> I think I'll just roll back to evolution and deal with the can't create imap folders a different way <hads> Why can't it create IMAP folders? I'm think it can here. <ibeardslee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/878460 <ibeardslee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/862677 <ibeardslee> using imap+ seems to create an evolution that doesn't work here <hads> Hadn't heard of IMAP+ I might fire up Evolution and have a look. <hads> Second stage anti-fraud tool underway, phone number lookups; http://quick.nice.net.nz/phone/?number=039749011 <G> hads: nice one <G> hads: assuming that is from the NAD database? <hads> G: Yup <hads> G: Stuff for you from CDL will be shipping to me today. * ojwb wonders how "talks to me on IRC" factors into hads' new customer vetting system <hads> heh, instant clearance :) <hads> ibeardslee: Switched to IMAP+ it works after I realised that when I did so it changed the port from 993 to 143 <ibeardslee> .. .. oh maybe that's what went wrong <hads> I stopped using Evolution a little while ago when it kept getting confused moving emails from one IMAP account to another. It would move them, then next time it refreshed sometimes they would be back again so a copy in each account. Perhaps IMAP+ will fix that. <G> hads: CDL? <G> hads: oh Dynamix, right <G> hads: thanks <G> hads: I forgot they go by two different business names, but it's all working out good, got a call from the ones that I'm getting the PDL stuff from that the other part of what I need is ready to pick up #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-02 <ojwb> is there an easy way to take an "alternate" ISO and include the updates since the release? <ojwb> and produce a new ISO image <mwhudson> it's probably distressingly hard * ojwb wondered if creating a second repo on the ISO would actually be easiest <mwhudson> the current process for producing an iso involves baling twine <mwhudson> aiui <ojwb> and perhaps then nuke the original packages for space <chilts> ojwb: is this because a dist upgrade from where the newly installed image would be too slow? <ojwb> not sure about "too slow" but it does make it take longer <ojwb> for LTS releases, they do at least roll up point versions <ojwb> hmm, I wonder if I can just unpack, fiddle with the pool, run dpkg-scanpackages, sign stuff * ajmitch stabs unity through its black heart <ajmitch> thumper: sorry, there doesn't appear to be a crash dump to submit from unity dying on me again <G> ojwb: is this for local installs or for sharing with others I wonder? <thumper> what's happening <ojwb> G: local stuff <G> ojwb: I do some whacky stuff with nginx, and just use a PXE image, point it to nginx, and install newist stuff that way <ojwb> uhuh <ojwb> not sure that's really an improvement from what we already have - i was aiming for less fetching of packages across the network <ojwb> rather than more <G> ojwb: basically nginx proxy cache's pool/ etc, and proxy_pass (& caches) the repodata <G> ojwb: depends, because I only fetch once over the internet, but many times over LAN <G> (I know apt-proxy/apt-cache can do that, but I don't like either, and the server that is doing it isn't running Ubuntu yet <ojwb> i think I still prefer an ISO image with stuff on <ojwb> less to go wrong <ojwb> and for me to have to debug remotely <G> yeah, was just throwing it out there <ojwb> worth thinking about - network probably beats DVD these days <G> (I did the same for when I was using Fedora everywhere at home too, but the RH-repo structure is by far messier <hads> G: Stock arrived, but umm... it seems I ordered 2 UY2 connectors instead of 200. <ojwb> better than order 100 times too many I guess <hads> Valid point. <ojwb> if poorly typed <hads> Must have been tired this morning. Ordered a 15m cable AND a 20m cable but was only meant to order either or. <ojwb> the next few days could be interesting I guess <G> hads: oh whoops <G> TelstraClear on twitter: "Due to unprecedented demand, some of you may be experiencing intermittent or slow internet..." - I wonder why <G> hads: I definately need more than 2 of the UY2 connectors, the reason why I said just send a hundred was because I was thinking we'd be able to use them elsewhere (model trains etc) <hads> G: Yeah, I thought I was ordering two packs, turns out it was just two. I'll order two packs on Monday, I hope the extra days delay won't be an issue. <G> hads: nah it's fine <hads> Cool <G> I've got everything else next to me now, but I need to do a bit of prep (such as cleaning/drilling/moving stuff out of the way) work anyway, so I'll just start doing that and do the rest during the week <G> must say, the PDL stuff looks really good too, got the RJ-45 module with the plastic lid etc, fits in with everything else and doesn't look out of place or anything like that <G> hads: btw if you are interested: https://code.launchpad.net/~dev-nigelj/+junk/tv_grab_nz-py <ojwb> morning <lamba> lo all #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-03 <ojwb> hmm, earthquake <Hoggs> nice one too <ajmitch> just a medium one around wellington? <ojwb> pretty minor, but it went on a while <ojwb> long enough for me to think about getting out <ojwb> buet jenny was standing in the back door asking what I was talking about <ojwb> or I guess something more major further away <ojwb> not on geonet yet <ojwb> ah, is now <ojwb> 5.7 nr picton <ojwb> "503 Service Temporarily Unavailable: '503' is standard notation indicating that the GeoNet webserver is experiencing extremely heavy use and is unable to display the requested page at the moment." <ajmitch> nothing really to write home about? :) <ibeardslee> I didn't think much of it. The worst part was the amount of noise I thought was a quake .. and then there was a small shudder. <ibeardslee> must remember not to panic about the loss of media, because the music stops playing. It may be because it had just been rebooted. <Atamira> chatting? on a sunday ? <Atamira> please tell me you're not at work <G> Atamira: don't worry, just called Crimestoppers, peaceful #ubuntu-nz will be restored in a moment... ;) <ibeardslee> Atamira: no, ihodge@example.net. <Atamira> oh good. i thought the world had turned upside down <Atamira> kiwi's working on a sunday <ibeardslee> although trying to get some stuff done on a couple of projects <Atamira> irrespective of the fact i work rotating shifts and work sundays too sometimes <ibeardslee> taking the opportunity to check the TelstraClear free data weekend to suck down a dvd of Project Gutenberg <ibeardslee> I think that the need to give their network a serious upgrade if they want to do it again #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-04 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> ibeardslee: so how was your connection over the weekend? <ibeardslee> okish .. didn't trash it <ajmitch> snap has telstraclear as an upstream, international speeds there were abysmal yesterday <ibeardslee> the average speed to torrent the Gutenberg DVD was about 600kbps <ajmitch> I didn't care too much since I was actually outside in natural light for most of the day ;) <ibeardslee> there was a lot of dampness about yesterday <ajmitch> it was sunburn territory down here yesterday <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <chilts> morning :) <ojwb> morning <Atamira> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-05 <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> beat you! :-p * chilts guesses this means he has nothing better to do <ibeardslee> heh .. actually I spent a bit of time following up on Catalyst irc before starting my connection to home for this instance of irssi <ibeardslee> interesting thought for the day. If mozilla lose the Google funding and end up with funding from MS/Bing, will Canonical drop Thunderbird as the default mail client in 12.04? <chilts> and will they drop Firefox? <lifeless> hard to say :) <chilts> I wouldn't have thought so, it'll still be open source :) <ajmitch> morning <hads> morning <hads> Chromium would be a nice default :) <ajmitch> replace thunderbird with what mail client, though? <hads> Indeed. I don't even have one I like that much. * ajmitch uses thunderbird at work where it happily chews up a lot of RAM :) <hads> I'm been jumping between Evolution and Thunderbird. Thunderbird seems to open lots of connections to the server and fail occasionally. Evolution has other issues. <ibeardslee> back to evolution? <ibeardslee> I'm also running Claws mail at the moment * ajmitch is back to mutt as well <ibeardslee> http://www.claws-mail.org/ <hads> I'm back on Evolution the last 24 hours or so since you prompted me about IMAP+ ibeardslee <ibeardslee> how is that working? <hads> Haven't noticed the duplicate-messages-after-moving-mail-between-accounts issue yet. <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> notmuch ftw <hads> I actually quite like KMail but it doesn't 'fit' with Gnome all that well. <mwhudson> (not exactly the MUA for the masses though) <hads> The IMAP users :) <ajmitch> how does notmuch compare with mutt? * hads installs offlineimap <mwhudson> ajmitch: i've never been able to get along with mutt <mwhudson> i'm an emacs weenie already, so notmuch.el had a head-start there <chilts> I used to do email in Emacs back in the RMAIL and then VM days, but I gave that up a long time ago <chilts> as I did mutt and others * chilts just uses Gmail these days (unfortunately, it's the best client) <ibeardslee> gmail relies on having your email/domain hosted by out of your control <chilts> oh, I know the pros and cons, and being able to use that email is a big win for me <chilts> anyway, the email is hosted elsewhere, but I have control of the rest of the domain <chilts> you can also proxy your email if you want it to go through your own server, and you can also set up SPF to allow from your own server too ... so it's not all doom and gloom :) <hads> I like to control my mail. <chilts> I used to, but gave up on that a while ago <ibeardslee> I'm starting to wean myself off using my gmail address as a common address. <G> (jumping in late here) but I'm a mutt user, if I need a GUI for some reason, I either use Roundcube, Evolution (or a mail client I won't mention if I'm for some reason in Windows) <G> hads: any updates on the joiners? <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> G: you can mention Thunderbird on Windows <G> ibeardslee: not Thunderbird... it happens to be a very closed source item of software :P * G hangs head in shame <ibeardslee> Pegasus Mail? <ajmitch> outlook? <hads> G: Sorry, waiting on them to turn up, hopefully this afternoon. <ojwb> outlook's more a virus distribution system than a mail client <mwhudson> lol pegasus mail <G> gosh, Pegasus Mail, haven't heard of that for years... <G> hads: ahhh nice ,all good #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-06 <hads> G: Here <G> hads: ohhh good news :) <G> hads: when you've added it all up just let me know and I'll put the payment in asap <ojwb> anyone got any good suggestions for something easy and fairly cheaper for monitoring temperature and humidity in a greenhouse (and ideally outside too while I'm at it) <ojwb> ideally without too much hardware hackery as that'll delay it actually happening a lot <hads> WIthout hardware hackery your best bet would be an off the shelf weather station thingy. <ojwb> i wondered if that might be the case <G> ojwb: I seem to recall Jaycar have some nice modular ones, no idea how good etc they are <ojwb> doesn't need to be all that precise, nearest degree should be fine <hads> I have loads of different options for sensing temerature here, but all require some hackery. <hads> Hackery and weather proofing. <ojwb> the weather stations seem quite plausible in price and function, assuming I can get a sane data feed out of them <G> most o fthe weather stations seem to be closed box solutions, hmmm <hads> Data feed = more $ <G> Etherten w/ a couple of Temp/etc sensors would be fun, but hackery/etc * ojwb knows karora brought one back from the US or somewhere and got it talking to linux, but I think that was rather higher end <hads> Yeah, the EtherTen is the way I would go. Will have easy to use little temp sensor modules in the next day or two. <hads> http://www.freetronics.com/products/temperature-sensor-module <hads> http://www.freetronics.com/products/humidity-and-temperature-sensor-module <ojwb> hads: any idea of likely NZ prices? <G> hads: the second one looks neat except for one thing.... blue LED <ojwb> comms and power over ethernet should significantly reduce the amount of hackery required <ojwb> and I think I can remember which end of a soldering iron to hold <hads> G: Screwdriver will take care of the LED :) <G> hads: haha <hads> ojwb: Let me finish what I'm doing and I'll work out the prices. <ojwb> -4 to +125 C is a little tight on the lower end for this application <G> The EtherMega's look neat, but I don't really have a need for Ethernet for my project <ojwb> on the combo one <karora> ojwb: It was a Davis Instruments. <hads> ojwb: The DS18B20 should have a better range. <karora> Anything with a decent rain gauge costs significant money. The Davis is at the cheap end for full function weather stations, though there are some Oregon Scientific or La Crosse which cost fewer $$$ per weather station - you will just find that they don't last as well. <hads> ojwb: -55 to +125Â°C <ojwb> hads: yeah, but that doesn't get humidity, so you need to choose between them <ojwb> or buy both <karora> I had a friend who bought a wireless weather station (rain, wind, temperature, humidity, barometer) for around $220 which connected to his computer via serial. <karora> The rain gauge had a capture area of about 10 cm2 - not really enough. <ojwb> i think rain fall isn't so interesting for me <ojwb> it's NZ, I know it rains a lot <karora> Well, you know it's windy too. <ojwb> indeed - mostly I want to know if the greenhouse is too hot or too cold <karora> If you just want temperature / humidity / barometer I can sell you my old La Crosse. <ojwb> if the readings stop, that'll tell me if it's too windy and it has blown away <karora> It has a serial port interface which I used with a USB Serial. <ojwb> got a link to the specs? <karora> And it's well understood by Linux. <G> hads: there is a cable missing no? <hads> G: There is? <G> hads: shouldn't there be a 3rd 7.5m? <hads> Oh dear, that day was a bad day, that's the third thing I messed up for you. <hads> Was confused by the purple fiasco and didn't order a third. <hads> I did order a 15M if that would suit? Or I have a blue 5M? <G> yeah, that was my fault, I assumed they were common lengths in all colours etc, let me just check something <G> I might take the 15M, let me just check how long the cable to my HDHomeRun is <karora> ojwb: I think it's a WS3510. I also have a WS3502 but the anemometer needs replacement. <G> hads: yeah okay, bill me for the 15m, I'll use the 10m cable the HDHomeRun has instead of the 3rd 7.5m, and the extra 5m can be coiled out of the way for the HomeRun <hads> Done <G> hads: replied! <G> hads: thanks, and sorry for been such a pain <hads> Not a ihodge@example.net. <ibeardslee> those the gold plated super thick HDMI cables? ;) <ajmitch> the ones that deliver a superior digital experience? :) <G> ibeardslee: you mean those $200+ Monster cables? I take great pleasure in telling sales people that they aren't going to fool me on that sorta stuff :P <ibeardslee> I think one day I might lead someone on with that and then as they are ringing it up say .. actually I'll take one of these $15 jobbies <ajmitch> what a way to crush their hopes <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <hads> morning <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-12-07 * ibeardslee wanders zooward <chilts> see you there :) * chilts scored an invite * ojwb works out what the "zoo" part of "zoodoo" means <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> ibeardslee: is your head not as bad as that time you told us about
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