#ubuntu-translators 2011-04-01 <dpm> morning all <TLE_02> good morning <dpm> hey TLE_02 :) <Mirv> hmm, is there a bug report about cd boot menu having no translations at all? <Mirv> well, I reported it anyway at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/747090 since at least under that package there wasn't <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 747090 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "No translations in natty (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <dpm> hey Mirv, not that I know of (it was working for me last time I tried it). You might want to ask at #ubuntu-installer <Mirv> can someone else of you try the beta before I go there? <Mirv> I have the amd64 beta running in qemu <dpm> Mirv, could you add a task for the 'ubuntu-translations' project using the "Also affects project" link? This way we can track it as a translations problem <Mirv> yep <dpm> thanks :) * Mirv is waiting for the unity upload to offer Search/Shortcuts strings to be translated <Mirv> apparently soon after beta if the fix that I saw fixes it <Mirv> ...and "See %d more results" <Mirv> same result btw with i386 image <artnay> dpm: yesterday we thought with henningen that overwrites were due the January "but". <artnay> dpm: just realized that the same has happened with chromium within last few weeks, see these pics from yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/w0LMD.png http://i.imgur.com/HcOCt.png <artnay> so something has overwritten the changes made during the last 1,5 months <artnay> dpm: just to let you know, I've informed henninge as well <artnay> don't really know if tassini has made some oops or what <artnay> hi henninge <henninge> Hi artnay! <henninge> HI dpm! <dpm> hey henninge! <henninge> Let me finish something else here first ... <henninge> ok <henninge> artnay: that is a product, the situation is different <henninge> chromium, I mean <artnay> henninge: true but I wasn't sure if it's about LP (affecting ubuntu, too) or if it's an oops made by fabio tassin <artnay> let's try to get the name right... fabien tassin! <artnay> I have a schedule, will be back in 5 hours. I'll talk to fta if he's around still then. <henninge> artnay: ok <henninge> I was trying to look up the bug about the projects <henninge> bug 740225 <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 1) (heat: 31)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225 <henninge> artnay: fta is subscribed to that bug <henninge> (I think he "noticed" it) <andres_kain> Hi, a bit new here... I'm registered to launchpad can I start to submit suggestions or do I have to go through registering my email? <andres_kain> to the spanish email list I mean... and what is rosetta? apart from the stone... <andres_kain> OK sorry found the answer. <andres_kain> it was in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSpanishTranslators first two lines. <andres_kain> yes I can. <andres_kain> sorry! #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-03 <Daniel0108> hi #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-04 <dpm> good morning everyone <andrejz> good morning <TLE> good morning <dpm> morning andrejz and TLE <andrejz> you guys had anything running for ugj? <TLE> I think the danish ubuntu team was trying to get something of the ground, but I was in the middle of travelling to I don't know how much got done <TLE> how about you <andrejz> yeah, we had something. it was quite good. in contrast to last year we decided to meet in person <dpm> andrejz, yeah, we got quite a lot done, I'm going to blog about it later on today on the planet <dpm> we had a good time <andrejz> somebody else within the team has appointed himself for blogging, so i am waiting for him to do it <dpm> :) <andrejz> we did a bit of statistics while we were doing it <andrejz> although some stuff is not counted in since some people were working on upstream packages, so that's not counted in launchpad <andrejz> but in total there were 17 people (some were not there for the whole day) and about 2000 strings were reviewed and 1500 translated, so wea re quite happy with the outcome <andrejz> :) <andrejz> we decided to review all ubuntu specific (Non gnome string) thouroughly one more time before 11.04, so now we are working on that and kubuntu docs <dpm> cool :) <TLE> head_victim: nice <TLE> *G* <head_victim> I'm a bit of a spelling and grammar nut. <TLE> I remember reading the project discription for the british translation team once <head_victim> We're almost identical to them <TLE> decribing it as the ultimate nitpicking effort *G* <TLE> made me laugh so hard <TLE> http://live.gnome.org/BritishEnglish <TLE> oh well, sounds like you got a lot of work done, and even better recruited a few volounteers, quite the accomplishment <head_victim> It's actually not as easy as you'd think checking all the strings for subtle differences. <head_victim> You go a bit numb after a while :) <TLE> No, I could imagine it is not easy <head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Projects/Translation#Ubuntu%20Global%20Jam%20Saturday%20Second%20of%20April%202011 Sorry for the long link but on that note I'm off. Enjoy your translations <TLE> thanks <dpm> henninge-lunch, when you're back I've got a question for you: <dpm> I was trying to find out why the gdm translations did not get imported, and I think it's because of the fact that they are now imported from bzr upstream branches instead of packages. I've noticed that on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm the upstream connection is set to the master branch instead of gnome-2-32 <dpm> which is wrong <dpm> as we're not using the 'master' branch in natty, but the 'gnome-2-32' one <dpm> so, the questions are: how to fix this? Does lp supports setting bzr upstream imports for something else than the master branch? <dpm> (just to answer myself the last question: importing branches other than the main one from git is not yet supported, but nearly complete in bzr) <Daniel0108> hi <Daniel0108> I have a question :) <Daniel0108> I am the leader of the Ubuntu Austria LoCo. <Daniel0108> When I want to edit the languages of our team <Daniel0108> it says: <Daniel0108> Languages in Austria: <Daniel0108> German, German (Austria), Walser <Daniel0108> but there's no German (Austria) to select :) <Daniel0108> Is it possible to add German (Austria) to the list of all languages? <Daniel0108> Because the differences between German and German (Austria) are like the differences between English (United Kingdom) and English (Canada) or English (Australia) :) <Andre_Gondim> Daniel0108, maybe you can ask in the translator mail list <Daniel0108> okay <Daniel0108> thank you, Andre_Gondim, can you give me the mailing list email? :P <Andre_Gondim> Daniel0108, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators <Daniel0108> thanks :) <trijntje> Hi all, can someone take a look a this link and tell me how we should proceed with translating? <trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/software-center/+pots/software-center/nl/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=infringing <trijntje> especially the 'consult a lawyer' part <askhl_> Heh, that's a bit silly. Maybe the comment was meant for coders, not translators, for surely it's not legally very useful in non-English-speaking countries. That being said it's remarkable that we still get to translate it <trijntje> well, ill just translate it as best I can, and hope Canonicals lawyers dont come knocking when something goes wrong ;) <TLE> trijntje: of they didn't bother writing somewhere that the legally binding text is the english original, and not the translation, then it is not your problem, then it is them that messed up <TLE> legals texts is something that organisations sometimes pay lawyers quite a bit of money to write, we can't possibly be expected to translate them with a 1:1 legal correspondance, becaue then you would have to be a lawyer too <trijntje> agreed <TLE> Ahh Dutch translation <TLE> I'm located in Leiden at the moment <trijntje> TLE, really? me too ;) <TLE> Yes, I'm visiting the interface physics group at the University for the next 4 weeks <trijntje> I googled them, looks interesting <trijntje> at what university are you usually located? <TLE> The tecknical univeristy in denmark <TLE> DTU #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-05 <dpm> morning all <dpm> hi henninge, good morning! Early morning question: I was trying to find out why the gdm translations did not get imported, and I think it's because of the fact that they are now imported from bzr upstream branches instead of packages. I've noticed that on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm the upstream connection is set to the master branch instead of gnome-2-32, and I believe that is why: translations are imported from the wrong branc <dpm> h. Could you confirm a) if this makes sense and b) if gdm translations are indeed being imported from the bzr branch already? <artnay> cancel seems to be the only untranslated string in gdm for me <artnay> just a side note <dpm> ah, thanks artnay, it's good to know the status in other languages. In my case there were ~25 strings translated upstream that didn't seem to make it to LP <artnay> dpm: were those 2.32 strings or master? <dpm> artnay, the strings were 2.32, we're not using master in natty <henninge> dpm: that would make sense if translations were set up in upstream but they are not. <henninge> dpm: there are no templates on upstream, so it would not be recognized as havin upstream translations. <henninge> dpm: thus translations should still be imported from the package. <dpm> henninge, ok, thanks. Then I'll need to investigate a bit more why they did not get imported from the package <dpm> they're these -> https://translations.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm/+pots/gdm/ca/+translate?show=untranslated, let me see if I can find the librarian URL for the last imported translations tarball <henninge> dpm: what is the translation coordinators team called exactly? <dpm> henninge, you mean the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team? <henninge> I thought I tried that <henninge> maybe I missed the 's' <henninge> dpm: here is the new page that helps you in determining the sharing state. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gdm/+sharing-details <henninge> dpm: AFAICT gdm only has one series. Thre is no gnome-2-32 <dpm> henninge, yeah, I know, git imports from branches other than master are not yet supported, but they soon will be as far as jelmer tells me <dpm> henninge, the sharing page looks great! What are the possible values of "State" and what are their meanings? <henninge> "only in Ubuntu", "only in Upstream", "shared", "linking" <henninge> The last one indicates that the merging script is running right after a new packaging link has been created to an existing project. <dpm> henninge, ah cool, thanks. And another question: why does https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/synaptic/+sharing-details tell me that "Automatic synchronization of translations is not enabled" when automatic imports and exports are set up already? <henninge> dpm: It only imports template files, not translation files <henninge> dpm: which is OK for a project that does its translations in LP completely <henninge> dpm: the details page is still alpha state, I added you to rosetta-alpha to be able to see it. <henninge> dpm: The page is currently optimized for projects that are not using LP for translations, thus expecting it to import both the templates and transalations from the upstream branch. <henninge> We still have to make that dependend on the "translation_usage" value. <dpm> henninge, ok I understand. Btw, after being added to rosetta-alpha, something strange happens to the page: when I reload it I see shortly the branch for the upstream series being set on the second of the "checkboxes", but after less than a second it goes back to "No source branch exists for the upstream series" (not that it bothers me, I'm just mentioning it as feedback) <henninge> dpm: there is some incomplete javascript code in there. Abel accidently landed more of Aaron's code than was ready to land. <henninge> dpm: but it does not matter because that page is not yet public <dpm> ok, gotcha <henninge> dpm: there is some incomplete javascript code in there. Abel accidently landed more of Aaron's code than was ready to land. <henninge> dpm: but it does not matter because that page is not yet public <dpm> henninge, ok, gotcha, thanks <henninge> dpm: also, it is plain wrong. There *is* a source branch on the upstream sereies. <dpm> henninge, yeah, that's the branch I see for a split second <artnay> 14:02 davmor2 : Hey guys what happened to all the work to unify the name of the rubbish bin? Quick menu says "Empty Trash...", App launchers label lists it as "Rubbish Bin", Nautilus says "Move to Wastebasket" again <dpm> artnay, it might be worth checking out if the translations done in Launchpad were overwritten by the upstream ones due to bug 710591. The en_GB Ubuntu team discussed the change at the time, but the GNOME upstream team never accepted it, so if Launchpad translations were accidentally overwritten, Rubbish Bin might be back to Wastebasket or whatever it was before. <ubot4> Launchpad bug 710591 in launchpad "Ubuntu upstream translation imports overwrite Ubuntu translations (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710591 <artnay> dpm: that's what I suspect <artnay> it happened in January and now at the end of March <artnay> as far as I can tell <artnay> I can see it affecting ubuntu, chromium etc. <andrejz> dpm, if i understand correctly, laucnhpad translations are being continiously overwritten by GNOME <andrejz> ? <head_victim> artnay: ah I'd wondered about that (I do enAU) <artnay> andrejz: that seems to have happened at least a few weeks ago <dpm> artnay, that shouldn't happen. It only happened at that time. If this has happened again, I'd recommend filing a bug <andrejz> but was this a one time event? <dpm> andrejz, yes. <andrejz> good to know. I will check for regressions too <dpm> after fixing the bug, translations precedence should have been back to normal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationsPrecedence <head_victim> What's the easiest way to go about searching the files online to try and unify the naming or is it really only possible to download them and do it that way? <artnay> head_victim: grepping the translations <dpm> head_victim, you can download a complete language pack and search them there <head_victim> dpm: no worries, I was hoping to avoid downloading but I couldn't see any other way to do it but just checking <head_victim> artnay: ^ <head_victim> Thanks for confirming it though. <artnay> you could find this useful http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/K%C3%A4%C3%A4nt%C3%A4minen?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=etsi_suomennos.sh <artnay> it's for Finnish translations but with a few modifications it will search your language as well <artnay> I can translate the Finnish strings to you if help is needed ;-) <dpm> head_victim, or you can install the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-translator-tools-hackers/+archive/ppa PPA, which contains a tool to search for translations in a running system (similar to what artnay is mentioning, I think) <head_victim> Oh, now you're talking. I'll have to look into that some more. <dpm> :-) <head_victim> Thanks heaps (ISPs have quota's here in Australia so large downloads can be tricky) <dpm> yw :) <head_victim> Oh, and the "large" download, I checked again and it's no where near as large as I first thought <andrejz> hello! is anyone running natty and is willing to confirm a bug for me? <askhl_> Hi. Will translations be pulled from GNOME before the non-language-pack translation deadline? <askhl_> Or to put it another way: If I refrain from touching any translations in Launchpad until our GNOME translations appear there, will there be any trouble? <askhl_> (clarification: ...from touching any GNOME translations in Launchpad...) <andrejz> don't know, unfortunately <askhl_> andrejz: how do you manage to get translations from GNOME over in LP? <askhl_> (assuming you do) <andrejz> you mean from GNOME to launchpad? <askhl_> yeah <askhl_> Since e.g. gcalctool is updated in GNOME now, we'll need to get that update over in Launchpad. Easy enough to do for one module, but there are quite a few modules <andrejz> just wait for them to appear i guess, sometimes it happend version in launch <andrejz> launchpad is older than the one in GNOME. Then we manually upload. <andrejz> oh, i know gcalctool, we manually uploaded it about 3 weeks ago <andrejz> some 150 strings, right? <askhl_> it's 450 strings now <askhl_> used to be 230 <askhl_> anyway, that's just the most obvious example <askhl_> I'll wait until things appear in LP <andrejz> I don't trust launchpad import feature all that much. It supposed to be better now, but i have for example update gcalctol in gnome <dpm> askhl_ translations are not explicitly pulled. Whenever there is a new tarball released upstream, a new package is created and then translations are imported when it is uploaded. Or sometimes some fixes are pulled from gnome's git and then a new package is created as well <andrejz> i don't trust laucnhpad imports all that much. for example gcalctool.. <andrejz> now we should have "live" upstream import since february or so <andrejz> but in my case the translations werent updated 2 weeks after i commited to gnome <andrejz> so i decided to just manually update and be at peace <dpm> andrejz, askhl_, I'm not sure what happened with gcalctool, but you can see all of the dates when a new package was uploaded here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcalctool/+publishinghistory <askhl_> dpm: thank you. So basically "they're going to get there in time". <dpm> askhl_, yeah, that's a nice summary :) <askhl_> The GNOME tarballs were rolled yesterday, so assuming the new packages are created, the strings *will* be imported <askhl_> So fine! <dpm> askhl_, yeah, but only for the GNOME 3 applications in natty only. Most of them are still gnome 2 and won't be upgraded to gnome 3 until past natty #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-06 <Andre_Gondim> there is one string that still showing but all package is translated, this is string is the translator credits, is it normal? <Andre_Gondim> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/kubuntu-docs/+pots/kubuntu-docs-development/pt_BR/+translate?show=untranslated <arjunaraoc> Hi can some one help on how to locate the package for string Retrieving file X of Y that is displayed during ubuntu install time <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> good morning, you are early today, dpm :) <dpm> hey andrejz, good morning, yeah, lots of stuff to do :) <andrejz> i have an idea and would like your feedback on it. Keeping in mind that more and more teams are approaching 100% <andrejz> it might be a good idea to use popularity contest data to determine which other programs (non default) are used most ofren <andrejz> often <andrejz> to ensure teams with close to 100% of default installation are focusing on the most relavant programs <andrejz> what do you think, dpm? could something like that be done in 11.10 cycle? <dpm> andrejz, it really is a good idea, I like it. I'd like to work on stats next cycle, so perhaps we can include that, or if you know someone that would want to work on it, that'd also be awesome <andrejz> yeah that would be cool. we could either somehow highlight these programs (especially programs, which are translatable in laucnhpad) <andrejz> or even include them in statistics (with a section Ubuntu extra) <andrejz> or extra programs of some sort <andrejz> i am willing to help up in discussing the specfications and such but my programing skills are rather limited, so i cannot help with that <andrejz> maybe we could discuss about this at UDS ? <dpm> yeah, let's talk about this more in the next few days, while we plan the uds sessions <andrejz> another thing, which me as a coordinator of a translation group would be very much pleased with is if we could get somet of the more problematic upstreams in launchpad <dpm> andrejz, which ones were you thinking of? <andrejz> in my experience two of the most criticall (both important and hard to deal with) are compiz and wine <andrejz> lots of people use these two programs <andrejz> compiz has no working translation infrastructure, they couldn't direct me how to translate ccsm on #compiz-dev <andrejz> and wine is also very important and right now i am contact with one of the developers who is super busy and has no time for translations <dpm> andrejz, I know, we've talked about compiz before, they're willing to move to lp, but they're quite busy. I think after the release it should be easier to start this move. As per wine, I don't know much about it. Where is it hosted? Does it use gettext for translations? <andrejz> so when sending .po files we need to wait for a month and a half for a reply <andrejz> @dpm: they just moved to gettext (po files) in december 2010 or so <andrejz> so theoretically they could move to lp <andrejz> note that it's not really necessary to move to lp (although it would be fantastic to have it). I would be very happy if could just easiyl find a .pot file withough getting crazy sending email/browsing wiki) and then send the .po file and have it commited in a week or so <dpm> yeah, sounds sensible <andrejz> it's really frustrating when you need to waste so much additional time for a certian project <andrejz> if movement to launchpad is not possible, then we could think of some sort of upstream outreach program to assist <andrejz> with this <andrejz> sorry, i am making short lines due to strange empathy bug in 11.04 (already reported) :) <trijntje> Hi all, clutter suddenly shows new strings for natty in LP, but I've seen no request for a UI-freeze exception on the list <trijntje> is there anybody who knows more about this? Clutter was fully translated to dutch but now shows 38 untranslated strings #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-08 <andrejz> mornign ! <andrejz> does anyone know how to translate the images in k/ubuntu user docs <andrejz> ? <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> morning dpm <andrejz> i have a question for you <andrejz> does you know how to translate the images in k/ubuntu user docs? <andrejz> * do <andrejz> you have strings such as @@image: 'help:/images/C/kde-bugreport-nc-step-6.png'; in the k/ubuntu user docs <andrejz> obviously these are images <andrejz> i just don't know where and how to upload them <dpm> hi andrejz <dpm> I think they can only be committed directly to the code <andrejz> so in case i have the time i send them directly to ubuntu docs team and they can commit it for me ? <dpm> yeah, I'd try that. Or you could also file a bug and attach them <dpm> I don't know how active the kubuntu docs people are, though <dpm> as in general the ubuntu docs community doesn't seem to be very active this cycle <andrejz> we decided to finish the docs off in this cycle, so in the next cycle we can concentrate more on upstream <dpm> cool <andrejz> but it can be seen from copyrights and such most things were changed the last time in 2009 <andrejz> dpm, i was wondering how is the translations portal progressing? <dpm> andrejz, I filed a request for deploying it, so it should be soon on translations.ubuntu.com. Other than that, I need to fix some things in the theme <andrejz> sounds good. will there be some discussion about it at the UDS ? <dpm> yeah :) <andrejz> cool, cause i have some ideas :) <markjones> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocq6_3-nEw&feature=youtu.be <Andre_Gondim> dpm, what is that project that we add in translations bug? <Andre_Gondim> I find it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs <dpm> Andre_Gondim, ubuntu-translations in Launchpad <Andre_Gondim> thanks dpm ;) <Andre_Gondim> dpm, btw, my default search Google is in ca, do you know how to fix it? #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-09 <suehtamac> Is Anybody Here? <artnay> bah, once again chromium imports (from chrome) overwrite chromium translations #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-10 <artnay> how is unity-2d in your language? I only have a few strings translated (although all of them have been translated over a month ago) <askhl_> artnay: it's almost 100% in Danish. I haven't seen contributions older than 2011-03-04 <X-Or> hello <X-Or> What's the correct translation: <X-Or> application source code <X-Or> or <X-Or> application's source code <X-Or> ? <head_victim> IMO application source code is general, a specific application's source code would be specific? <X-Or> Ok thanks head_victim, I will do with this. #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-11 <dpm> good morning all <andrejz> morning <dpm> hey andrejz :) <artnay> hi dpm <artnay> dpm: chrome upstream importing overwrited (once again) chromium translations, should I file a bug against LP itself? <artnay> I did /q to fta but he hasn't replied yet <artnay> I've fixed many oopsies made by chrome translator(s) (hired by google, I guess) but chrome imports have overwrited those fixes <artnay> hence those translations are now wrong in both chrome and chromium <artnay> grr, chrome translators should review the changes made in rosetta and take those to upstream when suitable <artnay> I'm pretty sure this problem exists in all languages that chromium is translated into <artnay> henninge: <andrejz> @artnay: probably languages without official google translations are better off <dpm> hi artnay, just tell fta on #ubuntu-mozillateam, with the exact details. afaik, the setup he's got is explicitly to overcome this problem <artnay> I wonder if this affects other projects as well <andrejz> hm, artnay i am looking at it right now and it seems some strange strings arrived on 2011-01-10 <artnay> andrejz: chromium strings update approximately once a week <andrejz> but i am not sure whether these were untranslated strings, which were automatically translated from upstream or if our strings were overwritten <artnay> a lot of new strings appear and unused ones gets tossed away <andrejz> yeah, we noticed that. maintaining chromium translations is rather difficult due to high rate of changes <andrejz> i can see that a lot of strings we have changed in launchpad haven't been overwritten <henninge> artnay: reading <henninge> artnay: sorry, distracted <henninge> artnay: this is bug 740225, I am sorry. <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225 <artnay> henninge: I don't know if that's the case... and even if it is, it's plain wrong <henninge> artnay: what do you mean <artnay> Rosetta states that differences between rosetta and upstream will be held in Rosetta <artnay> but, umh, which one is upstream? chrome or chromium? <henninge> I don't understand <artnay> henninge: this way we can't fix the errors made by Google's translators <artnay> sure we can file bugs against chromium issues but they don't tend to get fixed <henninge> artnay: that will only work between Ubuntu packages and upstream projects which are hosted in Launchpad. <artnay> for example in Chrome it says my connection to LP is secured by 128 byte encryption <artnay> so I fixed it in chromium to be 128 bits <artnay> and during the last import the fix got overwritten <henninge> artnay: not between projects hosted in Launchpad and upstream projects hosted elsewhere. <henninge> artnay: yes, that is bug 740225 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225 <artnay> sorry to hear that. it basically makes fixing a pita/impossible <artnay> unless the Google translators review the changes and fix it in Chrome <henninge> artnay: yup, I am sorry but that is correct. <henninge> artnay: the only way to get that would be to do the translations in Ubuntu: <henninge> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/chromium-browser <henninge> why is there an extra "translations" series on chromium-browser??? <artnay> henninge: fta2 said it shouldn't be that way <henninge> what way? <henninge> the series or doing it in Ubuntu? <henninge> artnay: ^ <artnay> henninge: series <artnay> I'll file a bug later today about this <artnay> if there are chromium translators here who are also affected by this, it would be great if you could confirm <henninge> artnay: I agree about the series. Is that what you want to file a bug about? <artnay> henninge: basically the bug would be "in chromium, don't overwrite changes made in LP when doing upstream import" <artnay> it makes fixing impossible without Google's help <artnay> don't get me wrong, I'd like to see those fixes in Chrome as well <henninge> artnay: I understand taht <henninge> that <henninge> artnay: in the bug you should make clear that you are aware of bug 740225 and that you seek a different solution (i.e. translating on the source package although chromium-browser is not in main) <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225 <artnay> henninge: I'll try to be precise with my bug report (will include screenshots, that bug # etc.) <henninge> artnay: I don't think screenshots are necessary. <artnay> thanks for looking up at that bug (again, you already did it before ;-)) <henninge> artnay: you don't need to explain much about what is going on because that bug already does that. <artnay> henninge: with screenshots I'm able to show a) original translator (fta) and time b) string c) my fix (name and date) <henninge> artnay: yes, but we are already aware that strings get overwritten. You do not need to proof that. <henninge> artnay: you can kick off the finding of a different solution, though. <artnay> henninge: ok, no screenshots. fta2 was asking for those wrongly translated strings <artnay> with dates one could track back to upstream imports <henninge> artnay: that would include keeping the upstream translation in the project and the LP translations in the source package. <henninge> artnay: that is something the Ubuntu people like dpm will have to comment on. <henninge> because chromium-browser is not in main. <henninge> artnay: oh, I forgot <henninge> artnay: fta has his machinery outside of LP doing stuff. <dpm> artnay, henninge, there will be no translatable ubuntu source package for chromium, as long as it remains in universe <dpm> fta explicitly created all his machinery to overcome that issue <henninge> dpm: yes, I just rememberd <artnay> I've seen fta's flow charts, gee... :-) <artnay> no wonder if stuff like this happens <henninge> artnay: ok but then this is not a new bug for LP to report <artnay> henninge: andrejz said their fixes aren't being overwritten so something is quite fishy here <artnay> I'm seeing all my fixes (being the only active chromium translator) being overwritten <artnay> in Finnish, of course... *g* <andrejz> Well, i checked for a couple of strings which we have changed and those weren't overwritten <andrejz> it's also possible those strings have been accepted in upstream chromium and are not intact <andrejz> now* <artnay> andrejz: when were those strings originally fixed? <andrejz> sometime in december 2010 <artnay> andrejz: ok, I have to check if any fixes from 2010 are still as-is. all fixes from 2011 have been overwritten. <andrejz> new launchpad rollout was around January 20th <artnay> yep <andrejz> so maybe that's when strings started to be overwritten <artnay> andrejz: well #740225 was probably released in 2011 <artnay> it saddens me to see regressions like this in both LP and transifex <andrejz> me too. it takes a lot of work to fix this and can seriously demotivate contributors <henninge> artnay, andrejz: Can either of you point me to fta's blog where he posted his flow chart? <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/chromium-translations-explained-part-2b/ <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/chromium-translations-explained-part-2/ <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/chromium-release-management-explained/ <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/chromium-translations-explained-part-1/ <henninge> andrejz: thanks <artnay> In Basque, some time ago I made a typo and translated the word .Offer. (in .generated resources.) with the word .Eskaiki.. It should be .Eskaini.. Now, each time a correct the mistake in Launchpad (4 times by now), the next day I got the mistaken word again in Launchpad. <artnay> It.s a restriction i had to add because Launchpad now overwrites the LP contributed strings when there is an upstream update, even unrelated, in the template, which happens almost every day in Chromium. <artnay> As I said, if the problem is ever solved in Launchpad, I should be able to remove this restriction. <artnay> it seems that LP/something now thinks upstream strings as "updates" to those strings which have been corrected in LP <artnay> that's a major drawback <artnay> basically makes correcting impossible unless Google's translator(s) fix their own oopsies <artnay> we can file those translations oopsies at chromium issues but as has been said, they don't tend to fix their own oopsies (or if they do, it takes a lot of time) <artnay> More seriously, I had to make some choices. The most important one is that for the .updated in Launchpad. strings, I always prefer those over the upstream translations. The drawback is that it is no longer possible to return to an upstream translation once it diverged. I consider it a small price to pay at the moment, but maybe it will have to be revisited one day. <artnay> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1528 this is one of the best examples I could find. totally wrong translation, reported 2,5 years ago, not fixed in Chrome, fixed in Chromium, gets overwritten. <artnay> I'll file a bug at Chromium issues, something like "co-operate with Chromium translators, review their changes and commit into Chrome where appropriate" <andrejz> hello! i am wondering if anyone is experincing a problem in indicator date-time <andrejz> "Add event ..." appears untranslated <andrejz> does any other team experience this <andrejz> ? <dpm> andrejz, I've noticed that too, but I thought it'd be because translations have not been shipped yet. <dpm> If that is not the case, would you mind filing a bug? <andrejz> well that was my question actually :) do i need to fill a bug or will it resolve by it self (when translations ship)? <dpm> andrejz, is the string translatable in LP? <dpm> if it is, you can test this: <dpm> 1. Export the translation as mo file from LP <dpm> 2. Rename the exported mo file to indicator-datetime.mo if necessary <dpm> 3. sudo cp indicator-datetime.mo /usr/share/locale-langpack/sl/LC_MESSAGES <dpm> 4. Log out of the session <dpm> 5. Log back in again and check if "Add event..." is now translated <dpm> I need to step out for a while, but I'll check the log when I come back if there is anything else <dpm> Oh, and 6. If it is not translated, please consider filing a bug <dpm> :-) <andrejz> @dpm: it works, so it's not a bug <dpm> andrejz, great, thanks for testing :) <andrejz> glad to help <artnay> do you have "Launcher & Menus" untranslated? <artnay> is it even marked for translations? <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/757884 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 757884 in ubuntu-translations "No translation template for "Launcher & Menus" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <artnay> to which package does it belong? #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-12 <artnay> hi andrejz <andrejz> hello artnay, how are you? <artnay> fine but a bit confused <artnay> just by looking at indicator-session <artnay> andrejz: how are "system settings" in indicator-session in your language? if you open the window, do you have different translation in window frame AND indicator-appmenu than in indicator-session? <andrejz> Yes they are differnet <andrejz> that's because the name of the window is Control center (name of the program is gnome control center) <artnay> true <andrejz> And control center and system settings are different words <artnay> but is that by design or would you consider it worth of bug report? <artnay> andrejz: also true <artnay> but it leads to inconsistency <artnay> it should be the same term <andrejz> I think it should be filled towards indicator-session <artnay> andrejz: so you would name it to "Control Center", right? <artnay> what about indicator-appmenu? it says System Settings as well <artnay> indicator have a different name than the window <artnay> indicatorS <andrejz> Well you know, maybe it makes sense. You want click "System settings" to edit system settings in a program called "Control center" <artnay> doesn't make sense to men <artnay> me <artnay> it should be same name in indicator-appmenu and window frame <artnay> otherwise it's possible to think indicator-appmenu controls are different from active window <andrejz> you have that right, i thing it's best to fill the bug against the indicators and hope for the best <artnay> I'll do it later <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/758508 here you go <ubot4> Launchpad bug 758508 in ubuntu-translations "[Unity] Inconsistent wording between window frame and indicators with "System settings" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <andrejz> @artnay: will subscribe to it, thanks <artnay> dpm: could you take a look at #758508 <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/758508 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 758508 in ubuntu-translations "[Unity] Inconsistent wording between window frame and indicators with "System settings" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <artnay> I believe it affects other applications, too. <dpm> artnay, thanks for the heads up. This is something that affects translations, but it must be fixed in unity-2d itself. Would you mind: <dpm> a) Using the "Also affects project" and "Also affects distribution" links to add bug tasks for the unity-2d upstream project and Ubuntu package <dpm> b) Add a screenshot showing where the problem appears? <dpm> Thanks! <artnay> dpm: does it affect unity (3d)? haven't been able to test that <dpm> artnay, I think it does, as far as I can see it on my system <andrejz> it does, artnay <artnay> should it affect unity as well, then? <dpm> I'm marking it as "low" for translations, as it's just some inconsistency. Medium or High I reserve for unclear or untranslatabe strings <dpm> artnay, I think, rather than unity itself, it affects the indicator that shows the control center <artnay> dpm: no indicator shows it, it's visible in window frame <artnay> indicators use "system settings" <dpm> artnay, I thought that was the inconsistency you were mentioning (indicator = system settings, dialog = control center) - was that not the bug? <artnay> both indicators <dpm> so you can choose where to report it against: either the indicator, or gnome-control-center <artnay> indicator-appmenu is "System Settings", indicator-session is "System Settings" and window frame (compiz?) is "Control Center" <artnay> I'm marking it against gnome-control-center since both strings exist in that package <artnay> now it's against unity-2d and gnome-control-center, feel free to correct <dpm> I'll let the desktop guys to handle that, as they are more knowledgeable <artnay> actually it probably should be against those indicators <artnay> I believe I saw same kind of inconsistency with some other apps <artnay> could have been banshee <david5345> Hi! Should the short form timestamp given by date +%Z be translated ? #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-13 <henninge> Hi dpm! <henninge> dpm: I read through the script of you UADW lesson on Monday. <dpm> hey henninge :) <henninge> dpm: I will try to connect to tha as closely as possible, so I am playing with quickly. (Not for the first time) <dpm> henninge, oh, awesome, good idea! <henninge> dpm: 'quickly create' did not create a po directory etc. When does that happen? <henninge> do I have to it manually? <henninge> Run gettextize? <dpm> henninge, you'll have to run a python-distutils-extra command: <dpm> ./setup.py build_i18n <dpm> you might have to chmod +x setup.py <henninge> dpm: ah, that's missing in your script. * henninge tries <dpm> yeah, I was running out of time, unfortunately <dpm> and I wanted to leave time for questions <henninge> dpm: Hm, I get a lot of errors but the pot file is there now. <henninge> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593519/ <dpm> henninge, yeah, I got that too, but I ignored the errors, as the purpose was to update the template <henninge> ok <henninge> dpm: thanks <dpm> henninge, np :) <serfus> "legal fineprint, do not change without consulting a lawyer" on a developer note on rosetta, means i should leave it untranslated? <serfus> as i am not a lawyer, and we don't have one on the team <dpm> serfus, which string is it, could you give us a link? <serfus> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/software-center/+pots/software-center/he/10/+translate <dpm> serfus, I'd translate it for now, but trying to remain close to the original <serfus> okay, will do :-) <serfus> thanks dpm <RawChid> Goed that you (re)send that mail dpm, we weren't aware of that! <RawChid> Good* <dpm> :) <RawChid> ``# <RawChid> File a request for it to be included by clicking here. `` <RawChid> Do need to do this like 6 times? (for each desktop entry) <dpm> RawChid, don't worry, leave it for now, they will be picked up tomorrow anyway <RawChid> Ah great :) <RawChid> I'll update the wiki right now <dpm> cool <RawChid> Hmm, I think the nn (just under nl) is forgotten to change it's color <RawChid> It's fully translated though, should I change the color or just leave it as is? <RawChid> (not that I know it the translation is correct) <RawChid> s/it/if <dpm> RawChid, please change the color according to the legend, so that the maintainer knows it's a new translation <RawChid> Yeah, I know, but I'm dutch and just noticed that thing about norway <RawChid> noregian* <RawChid> Another question dpm, for me it would be very clear when the first row in the table contains the English text, then I can see what I need to translate at a glance. <RawChid> Is it possible to do this? (i.e. it doesn't break automatisc scripts or something) <dpm> RawChid, it could be like this, yeah, the page is processed manually, so it's free format <RawChid> Maybe not at the moment, but I'll remember this for the next time ;) <serfus> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/software-center/+pots/software-center/he/28/+translate <serfus> has a spelling mistake <serfus> should i file a bug against it? <dpm> serfus, yes please <serfus> never filed a bug of this kind so it might be a bit ugly :P <RawChid> Hehe, I see ``ODF document format''. Is that normal in English? In dutch we call that some sort of pleonasm <RawChid> ``The open ODF document format'' <happyaron> RawChid: have a look at shared-mime-info <RawChid> Where can I find that? <happyaron> RawChid: upstream is http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/shared-mime-info/ <happyaron> and give me a minute for launchpad... <happyaron> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/shared-mime-info <RawChid> Let me take a look <RawChid> Oh, you meant where I can correct the issue? Well I saw that on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Wanted/LibreOfficeStartcenter <happyaron> well, I'm not sure about the wiki, but if you are telling about the mime info when saving a file. <RawChid> Well, thanks anyhow, I see that LP link has some untranslated strings in Dutch ;) <RawChid> I was just curious how English people think about that string I quoted. <serfus> bug submitted, hope i got it right <dpm> thanks serfus <gtriderxc> anyone here?? <AJenbo_> yep <AJenbo_> gtriderxc, do you have any questions? <gtriderxc> yes <gtriderxc> hi <gtriderxc> Buy storage and plans <gtriderxc> "Buy storage and plans" <gtriderxc> in ubuntu ne control panel <gtriderxc> what kind of plans are this? <AJenbo_> subscriptions <AJenbo_> You sign up for a plan with a telephone company so that you can use your phone. <gtriderxc> ok, thanks a lot :) <AJenbo_> no problem :)' <gtriderxc> phone with ubuntu one? <serfus> translations for libreoffice are done, is it still submitable? <AJenbo> serfus, the deadline is in 6 and a half houre <AJenbo> serfus, what part of libreoffice specifically? <serfus> the desktop entries on the wiki <AJenbo> serfus, did you put them on the wiki yet? <serfus> AJenbo, yup, and submited a question on launchpad like the wiki said to <AJenbo> should be good then <serfus> grand :-) <tatard> servus <tatard> i'm searching for romanian translator group <tatard> any ideas how can i reach it? <Andre_Gondim> why is there one string if there is nothing to translate it? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/kubuntu-docs/+pots/kubuntu-docs-development/pt_BR/+translate?show=untranslated <damascene> Hi, <damascene> today is Non Language Pack Translation Deadline <damascene> does that means I have the whole day or that it's gone? <AJenbo> Yay we just compleated the danish translation of app-install-data, and theres just 1:15 til deadline :D #ubuntu-translators 2011-04-14 <damascene> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. Weâve recorded what happened, and weâll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience. (Error ID: OOPS-1929V946) <ubot4> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1929V946 <AJenbo> damascene, the deadline was 9 minuts ago <AJenbo> forry for not noticing your question before :( <AJenbo> you can see the details of the deadline on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule <AJenbo> Freezes normally happen at the start of the given date, UTC time. So last minute changes need to happen the day before. <AJenbo> You can use http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ to figure out your time compared to utc <damascene> I see <damascene> there is some time left for other packages that uses package system <AJenbo> yes, excatly one week <damascene> thank you <dpm> good morning all <artnay> shotwell is missing several strings <artnay> damn, I'd like to like Unity but this thing is still too buggy :( <dpm> artnay, which particular strings is shotwell missing? If there isn't a bug, it cannot be solved :) <artnay> dpm: there are many (in settings, when publishing image etc.) <artnay> dpm: I'll report those later unless someone has time to dig them out now <artnay> dpm: probably more than 10 strings untranslatable <artnay> later meaning when I finish my paid job <dpm> no worries :) <TLE> *G* <TLE> those "paid jobs" so have a bad habit of getting in the way of the important stuff <dpm> exactly, I'd rather be translating Ubuntu myself right now :) <gtriderxc> HI! <gtriderxc> could anyone of You point me out the most important untranslated packeges on this list: <gtriderxc> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+lang/pl <gtriderxc> I know Banshee but i'm unable to translate these 4 strings <gtriderxc> I know about slideshows and checkbox as well <gtriderxc> but is there anything more important? <RawChid> I think the slideshow would be clever (because that is a fierst impression) <RawChid> first* <dpm> gtriderxc, empathy perhaps? <gtriderxc> ok thanks <gtriderxc> wll be done <dpm> gtriderxc, and gbrainy <gtriderxc> i just thought <gtriderxc> there could be something of high importance on the next pages <RawChid> Today is the NonLangPack deadline. Is it still useful to translate then? <RawChid> I see ubiquity is such a NonLangPack <dpm> RawChid, yeah, it is still useful to translate. The only thing is that we cannot guarantee when developers will fetch the translations for the packages affected by NonLanguagePackDeadline, as it is a manual process <RawChid> So they come with an some sort of "language update" ? <dpm> RawChid, no they don't come like that. Developers fetch the translations from LP, put them in the package, build the package with the translations and upload it. Only then are translations shipped to users <RawChid> Okay <RawChid> I'm still learning a lot about the translation process. <dpm> yeah, ideally everything would be delivered in language packs and the whole process would be automatic, but unfortunately there are technical issues that represent exceptions <RawChid> Now I understand the idea NonLangPack better <RawChid> Maybe a silly question, but are you working for Canonical? <dpm> RawChid, there are no silly questions :) - Yes, I do work for Canonical: https://launchpad.net/~dpm <RawChid> Okay, I was just curious <RawChid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackTranslationDeadline still had the Maverick deadline ;) <RawChid> has* <dpm> yeah, I know, it's in need of an update. Not only the date, but the list of packages as well. RawChid, are you volunteering for updating the date in the wiki page ;-) <RawChid> lol, I can change the date, no problem. <dpm> that'd be awesome :) <RawChid> I assume the time is the same.. <dpm> RawChid, actually, we could leave out the time, as it can be misleading <RawChid> Agree <RawChid> Well, I'll make it a link to 0.00 o'clock UTC <dpm> ok <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/760512 would be nice if someone who has been correcting/changing chromium translations could check if this bug exists in your language <ubot4> Launchpad bug 760512 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "LP translations overwritten by imports (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <artnay> https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+pots/generated-resources/fi/+translate?show=new_suggestions&start=0 some corrections are now marked as suggestions after yesterday's import <artnay> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/chromium-translations-explained-part-2b/#comment-204 <artnay> luckily at least some of the changes are still remembered as suggestions but not all. <gtriderxc> Empathy done. who's next ;)) <andrejz> AFAIK the deadline for non language pack amy08@example.org UTC, which was 11 hours 45 minutes ago, so it's possible translations won't get in 11.04 <andrejz> Hello dpm? are you there? <artnay> andrejz: was this problem affecting slovenian translations as well? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/760512 <ubot4> Launchpad bug 760512 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "LP translations overwritten by imports (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] <dpm> RawChid, we better remove the time on the NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline altogether, as it seems to cause confusion ^^ <dpm> andrejz, we cannot guarantee when developers will fetch the translations for the packages affected by NonLanguagePackDeadline, as it is a manual process <RawChid> What you want dpm <RawChid> I'll removeit <artnay> I don't think it's too late yet <artnay> 20:28 CIA-7 : ubiquity: evand * r4678 trunk/ (130 files in 3 dirs): Update translations from Launchpad. <artnay> that's from my /last on #ubuntu-installer <artnay> the line is couple of days old <TLE> dpm: hey <dpm> hey TLE :) <TLE> we are still seeing quite large differences between for some gnome packages between their status on lp and the one they have at gnome (and had at release time) <TLE> now we are off course wondering whether these are due to lack of syncronisation of ubuntu specific strings <dpm> TLE, can you give me an example that we can track down? <TLE> when do we know for sure that all upstream translation from gnome at gnome release will be in lp <TLE> yes, I can find one, but I am not really interested in tracking them down one by one, I can do that on my own, I was wondering if there was a way around it <TLE> e.g. empathy https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/empathy/+pots/empathy/da/+translate <dpm> TLE, the reason I'm asking is because without more info I cannot tell you what's going on, and I cannot give you a workaround for something I don't know :) <dpm> TLE, ok, looking at empathy - so which are the differences you've observed? <TLE> well what I was hoping for was that you would say: "At this point in time all translations from gnome at release time are in LP, so you do not have to worry any more about upstream differences" ;) <TLE> well, same total string count (+-2) as upstream, yet upstream was 100% traslated at release time, and in LP we have 52 untranslated <dpm> TLE, well, this GNOME release
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