#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-01 <Takyoji> Woo, just got 4 sticks of 128MB old DDR from a thrift store for $3 <Takyoji> Heh, it would be interesting if a web browser had a regular expression search feature. :P <Takyoji> Hah, controlling a refrigerator using Linux. <kermit> i keep trying to add ram to my old file server but nothing works <Takyoji> I don't think RAM would be that significant on a file server <kermit> things werent very plug n play in 1997 <kermit> it only has 64MB though, thats pretty tight <Takyoji> ahh <Takyoji> How long ago was the 16-bit era? <Takyoji> If anyone is old enough to remember. :P <kermit> i started on 300 baud <kermit> i'm old enough <Takyoji> I don't even fully know the definition of "baud" :P <kermit> its the symbol rate <Takyoji> bytes/second? <kermit> no <Takyoji> What is Kubuntu's package manager interface? <Takyoji> What's the partition manager in Kubuntu? <Takyoji> I can't find Gparted nor Disk Utility right away <_diablo> are the ubuntu download mirrors down? <_diablo> i can't download anything <Takyoji> Awkward, haven't noticed. <Takyoji> Are you connecting directly to the Ubuntu servers, or a mirror of it? <_diablo> whatever their website directed me to visit <Takyoji> So you're trying to download the ISO, or? <Takyoji> You know, I need to learn to write device drivers. Just for the sake of doing things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUmrddqU4N4 :P <Takyoji> and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDXOSUUdwgc <Takyoji> or also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVDmjnCQ1g4 :P <kermit> write something so i can play those with my prefered player <kermit> more of the same http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4SCSGRVAQE&feature=related <kermit> wow there are thousands of these <kermit> i've always wanted to make a device that bolts to a door frame with a servo holding the door handle so that the door becomes a driver and the room a box, making a loudspeaker with a very very low frequency response. <kermit> with quick release so you still have a useful doorway <Takyoji> I suppose using a floppy drive would be most practical (considering I probably wouldn't have access to a laser engraver :P) <kermit> a printer works well too <kermit> not as good as a sound card and speakers, but you'll get by. <Takyoji> The one thing I haven't seen is someone make an orchestra out of floppy drives. :P <kermit> you'd have to find an 8" drive for a complete orchestra <Takyoji> I used to have one <Takyoji> Before I disassembled it into a couple billion pieces, many years ago. :P <Takyoji> xP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE76goL0ol8 <Takyoji> Holy crap, I didn't know with harddrives it was that simple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBG0s9Qtjkk <Alienarch> howdy <Takyoji> Hello * Takyoji wonders if anyone here has poked around with Arduino at all <kermit> Takyoji: were you at the dc612 meeting where that was the theme <Takyoji> I haven't been at any event that matches my interests aside from installfests. xP <kermit> http://dc612.org/index.php/2010/05/06/may-13th-dc612-arduino-video-games/ <kermit> i played pong on an arduino <Takyoji> So, I haven't even been to any DC612 meeting <kermit> this guy made it http://nootropicdesign.com/projectlab/ <Takyoji> ahh #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-02 <Takyoji> What's the typical day that we have meetings? <Takyoji> (since I'm so stupid to remember, and considering it's been ages since one) <Takyoji> Because I will harass the mailing list of having a meeting <tonyyarusso> It was Mondays, but if you're instigating it you pretty much have the right to pick whatever's best for you I think. <Takyoji> Well, it hasn't been Monday yet (for the month), otherwise I wouldn't know what else would be better to choose <Takyoji> I feel the desire to have the Ubuntu Minnesota LoCo as a Wordpress 3 installation.. <tonyyarusso> why? <Takyoji> or just my other projects for that matter <tonyyarusso> is WP3 even released yet? <rlaager> yes <Takyoji> Yes <rlaager> My servers are crying at me to upgrade my website. <Takyoji> And it has everything I need and love <tonyyarusso> "WordPress 3: Now with slightly fewer gaping security holes!" <tonyyarusso> :P <Takyoji> Random aside: anyone repurposed an old desktop as a network firewall (and network monitoring) before at all? <Takyoji> Ooo, too bad it's dated though: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkMonitoringBridge <tonyyarusso> Not really - I have some old desktops around to play with that way, but they aren't in production. <tonyyarusso> I work with monitoring software for pay now though. <Takyoji> I have a 800MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB harddrive system that I intend on toying with <Takyoji> Nagios. :P <tonyyarusso> yup <tonyyarusso> I don't get to work with the open source parts quite as much as I'd like though. <Takyoji> Nagios is pretty much an aggregate of network information, correct? Considering the servers tell the server that has the Nagios installed the information, yes? <Takyoji> ahh <tonyyarusso> um, sort of? <tonyyarusso> It's state monitoring, and technically isn't even limited to network stuff. <Takyoji> ahh <tonyyarusso> You define "services" like "HTTP on foo", "Ping to bar", or "temperature of my pool", and set acceptable ranges for the values. When the result is outside of the range, it alerts. <Takyoji> ahh * tonyyarusso wonders when we acquired a jussi <jussi> tonyyarusso: when you did something wrong :P <jussi> tonyyarusso: actually, you guys have ubuntulog. <jussi> you should have a locobot.. <jussi> perhaps you might care to fix that? <tonyyarusso> This is true. ubuntulog is through RT thought isn't it? * tonyyarusso grumbles something about hassle <tonyyarusso> We've been through like 5 versions of ubotu and 3 of a log bot in this channel...they seem to drop out randomly and then I get one from whoever answers my e-mails. <tonyyarusso> jussi: there doesn't even appear to be a nick 'locobot' online. ? <tonyyarusso> iirc, the one I'm supposed to have is run by the ubuntu-eu people, whom I was unable to reach before. <jussi> tonyyarusso: they have numbers... locobot_1 locobot_2 etc <tonyyarusso> ah, right <jussi> yep <tonyyarusso> Do you know who to poke for one of those? * tonyyarusso looks for old e-mails <tonyyarusso> Yeah, here it is. I sent a request for a logging bot to linda89@example.com on October 11, 2009, and never got a response. So, on November 8 I sent a request to the RT people instead, which was fulfilled on December 4. <tonyyarusso> I'd be happy to have the proper bot, but if I can't reach the people responsible that's a bit difficult. <jussi> thats curious. <jussi> perhaps try again - if you dont get a response Ill go annoy some people. <tonyyarusso> k, is that the right address at least? <jussi> I do beleive so * Obsidian1723 welp, its 6pm on the 4th of July weekend. Time to go blow stuff up. Be safe and have fun. Remember, if someone hands you their beer and says "Hey ya'al.. watch this!!" It will probably be the last thing they do...so be sure to get it on video!! Peace!! :) <Takyoji> Interesting; didn't know it was freely available on Ubuntu Desktop: http://www.ksplice.com/pricing <Takyoji> Of course, those of us with tinfoil hats would realize that we're pretty much ensuring a full amount of trust to them for not something stupid #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-03 <Takyoji> Ooo, apparently Media Template and Dreamhost now provide VPSs <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Stay AWAY from DreamHost PS. <tonyyarusso> If you want a Linux VPS, you buy Linode. Period. <Takyoji> out of curiosity: any specific reason? <tonyyarusso> Dreamhost screwed me and some other people over a couple years back. Linode has been absolutely wonderful since I switched. (On the recommendation of pretty much everyone of note in #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu-ops) <Takyoji> Anyone know of a decent Jabber daemon? <Takyoji> I need something that I could bridge/delegate authentication to something else (such as a forum database) <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: ejabberd seems good <tonyyarusso> I have it authenticating with PAM atm <tonyyarusso> it also does LDAP, MySQL, and a couple other things <Takyoji> Ooo, alright <Takyoji> Actually, what would be the most sane method of an SSO? <Takyoji> Because I could have a PAM interface to my authentication DB <Takyoji> Basically all I need is something that can verify the validity of credentials (while also doing the correct hashing method) <Takyoji> It's still annoying that there's a handful of open source web apps out there that don't have OpenID support out of the box (supported by the developers, not some single third-party individual) <Takyoji> Why do people use ColdFusion, WHY? <Takyoji> I just don't comprehend the reasoning of it.. <Takyoji> http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/fanboy.htm :o <Takyoji> YEEESSS http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/chrome-dev-channel-adds-gnome-keyring.html #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-05 <Takyoji> I wonder; has someone written a desktop-based picture uploader for Facebook on Ubuntu yet at all? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://code.google.com/p/fb-photo-uploader/ <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: https://launchpad.net/fbuploader <Takyoji> I have also yet to update my mother's desktop to 10.04 <Takyoji> ahh, pyGTK <Takyoji> I might contribute to that project if I come across any bugs. <Takyoji> I have no idea why some cameras annoyingly save as .JPG rather than .jpg <tonyyarusso> to be dumb <Takyoji> They just recently now have a Flash-based uploader it seems, however, it don't show any of the pictures, since the expression was probably just lowercase form. <Takyoji> Regardless, I should send a suggestion, since it's probably affecting hundreds of others that don't know the source of the problem. <kermit> they should use .JPEG <kermit> :P <Takyoji> :P <Takyoji> or to mix up some more fun: .Jpg <kermit> actually it should be .JFIF <Takyoji> .TIFFIFF <Takyoji> .PICTURE <kermit> binary.image.2_dimentional.compressed.jfif.jpeg.name <kermit> a lot of unix stuff doestn have any file extention, i wonder if die-hards leave it off of jpegs too #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-06 <Takyoji> Is there such a thing as an IRC server that disables the privilege of banning people from a channel? <kermit> Takyoji: i dont know of one, but i'd like to.. all you have to do is remove one line of code from ircd <Takyoji> I'm really starting to wonder why there's a whole lot of IRC servers using UnrealIRCd 3.2.5 <Takyoji> and yet it's not provided by the Ubuntu or Debian package manager.. <kermit> in sql how do i do an insert conditional on the success of a previous insert? <Takyoji> You mean kind of like: `command && command` with bash? <Takyoji> Otherwise you can have a transaction and simply have it rollback if it fails. <kermit> yeah <kermit> oh? <kermit> i just learned any SQL in the last hour <kermit> i'm trying to import my old firefox history.dat <kermit> wait i think i figured out a 2 stage way to do this <Takyoji> ahh, SQLite <kermit> wow this is going to take 2 hours <kermit> of my compute <kermit> r <kermit> 42 records per second.. i thought this was fast. <kermit> ram drive! <Takyoji> Just 42? :P <Takyoji> Anyone else have issues with OpenOffice holding back shutdown from occurring, even after it's closed (as it still has a dead process running the background)? <Takyoji> on 10.04 <kermit> yeah thats 50x faster.. it must have been calling fsync a lot. <kermit> hah i did it.... my history.dat is 288MB now though. <kermit> er, places.sqlite #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-07 <Takyoji> Bleh, I feel pathetic that I haven't taught my parents in depth of how to use a computer <kermit> you dont want them online <kermit> they'll email you and message you and post to your facebook wall <kermit> and want to video chat <kermit> and play yahoo games <Takyoji> My mother already uses Facebook. :P <Takyoji> all she currently uses is Firefox and Evolution. <Takyoji> And all my father uses is Evolution. <Takyoji> otherwise it would be a bit more beneficial for my father since he barely has an computer knowledge, and that's really the kind of thing he needs for employment in some cases. <Takyoji> I also have to plan an update procedure for the family desktop as well yet <Takyoji> I have yet to boot the 10.04 LiveCD to see if the system even functions. :P <Takyoji> Anyone have a spare LCD monitor they're willing to sell? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Only if you're paying enough to replace it with :P * Takyoji_ wonders if anyone is alive * tonyyarusso is <tonyyarusso> boring, but alive <Takyoji_> Is there a method to upgrade from 9.04 to 10.04? <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: clincally anyways :P <Takyoji_> Without having to upgrade to 9.10 first? <tonyyarusso> no <Takyoji_> alright, I'll do the long way then <Takyoji> Yay <Takyoji> Didn't know they added this: http://www.liberiangeek.net/2010/06/enable-users-to-login-automatically-without-passwords-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx/ <Takyoji> That makes my life simpler <Takyoji> Because there was an annoying workaround that you'd have to do in order to do it with GDM <Takyoji> Anyone used BURG at all? <Takyoji> of which is basically graphical GRUB <_diablo> Takyoji: I've seen it, but no, never tried it <Takyoji> Well that was an interesting case. I upgraded the family desktop to 10.04, and when I popped in my mother's account, the cursor was invisible. <_diablo> whoa. weird <Takyoji> And setting the cursor via the Appearance panel didn't do anything <_diablo> yeah, I never update anything. I find a fresh install to be by far the cleanest way of dealing with these things <Takyoji> So I had to run: sudo update-alternatives --config x-cursor-theme <Takyoji> to basically reset the cursor theme system-wide <Takyoji> and of course it worked thereafter just fine <Takyoji> Ooo, software-center seems to be getting more orderly of categorization <Takyoji> However "Office" and "Accessories" are not organized into subcategories yet.. <_diablo> hmmmm, odd <Takyoji> But still, it's progress! <_diablo> yup! <_diablo> night all <Takyoji> Night <Takyoji> For LPIC, do you have to go step-by-step, or just test for any level of the certification? <Takyoji> ahh, I guess it is a prerequisite to have the prior certification. <Obsidian1723> Start at 1 <Obsidian1723> Honestly, all you need for Linux is the Linux+ <Obsidian1723> I've never seen anyon e ask for a RHCE, UCP, LPICx, etc <Obsidian1723> The path I wsent is DCSE > Network+ > Linux+ > going for Secureity+ and then a CISSP. <Obsidian1723> Out of a 900 perfect score on the Linux+, I got 850. <Obsidian1723> With the LPICs, if you let them lapse, you must start all the way over, like with Cisco. <Takyoji> I could get Linux+ done any day. :P <Takyoji> last time I checked the objectives of it <Obsidian1723> Why not do it then? <Obsidian1723> I'm simply stating that with Linux, certs aren't really needed - except to get by HR. <kermit> Obsidian1723: haha yeah i was juts telling a friend that <kermit> he suggested we go get certs togerther.. i said one cert on my otherwise non existant resume would look worse than none. <Obsidian1723> I've never seen anyone ask for a Linux cert. <Obsidian1723> yeah <Obsidian1723> certs alone = bad <Obsidian1723> experience alone = bad <Obsidian1723> both together = good <Obsidian1723> If push comes to shove, one vs the other, experience is better. <Obsidian1723> all certs do is say that you have put i nthe time and can meet a certain standard. <Obsidian1723> or at least you SHOULD be able to. <kermit> i just want to put "1983: c64 -> 1987: DOS -> 1996: linux and on rare occation, some win" and leave the rest blank ;) <kermit> on my resume <Obsidian1723> Certs is a nice CYA for HR. "Well Jim, when Tom took down the entire network by mistake, he SAID he was a network enigeer" vs " Well Jim, Tom had an impressive resume with experience and the certs, so he should have known better." <Takyoji> Considering I'm generally freelance, I'd only be able to go along the lines of a work portfolio since I haven't actually "worked" on an hourly basis within a company, yes? <kermit> i may go for an "i've never needed a 'job' before, so until i figure out how to properly market myself, you're going to get a steal for my services." approach. <Obsidian1723> more project based, yeah <kermit> the trick with job hunting is to not sound arrogant, but still sound usefu <kermit> l <Obsidian1723> I use certs because then my customers can have a certified tech, and my employer can also benefit at my dayjob. <Takyoji> Because my mother is just forcing me to do the ol' flippin' burgers at a fast food restaurant. xP <Takyoji> and I can certainly get better employment than that. <Obsidian1723> kermit, yeah, but more than that. The trick is to demonstrate and show that "Here is what I have done in the past. Here is what I can do for you now and in the future." Find a need and fulfill it for them. <Obsidian1723> Tak, maybe. <Obsidian1723> How old are you? <Takyoji> 18 <kermit> Takyoji: omg i'm twice as old as you <Obsidian1723> Well, you may get in somewhere, youth is on your side, but not experience. <Takyoji> I've always done freelance, I haven't had an hourly job * kermit thanks Obsidian1723 for being older <Obsidian1723> I'm 43. Been at this whole computer deal since the late 70s. <Obsidian1723> heh <kermit> Obsidian1723: are you mark christiansen? <kermit> hmm no he wouldnt IRC that much <Obsidian1723> Nope <Obsidian1723> heh I used to irc a lot more in the past. who is Mark? <Takyoji> I've had a couple years of web design, web development, and server administration. <kermit> Obsidian1723: he ran an ISP until 2000 <Takyoji> PHP for at least 5 or so years now. <kermit> Obsidian1723: do you remember twinlink, angmar, or orbis? <Obsidian1723> ah <Obsidian1723> Twinlink, yeah <kermit> i was on there a lot in 1988 <Obsidian1723> I used to work for a local ISP back in 1996 <kermit> were you on there? <Obsidian1723> No. <Obsidian1723> I used to work for a local ISP <Obsidian1723> MinnNet Communications, Inc. <Obsidian1723> Remember Bitstream Underground and Winternet? <kermit> i recall the name winternet <kermit> minnet or muinet? <kermit> i was on muinet <Obsidian1723> old skool <Obsidian1723> MinnNet <Obsidian1723> Remember when the bums started a fire and took out the communications fo Minneapolis? <kermit> haha yeah <Obsidian1723> good times back then. <kermit> Obsidian1723: remember when there was real competition for internet access? <kermit> that was good times, in a somewhat nefarious way ;) <Obsidian1723> yeah, now we are looking at net netruality going away. <Obsidian1723> Takyoji, I'm curious.. if the Linux+ is so easy, why haven't you got one yet? <Obsidian1723> kermit, ever meet Mike Horwath? <kermit> the name doesnt sound familiar <Obsidian1723> Old linux geek from back in the day. He was the admin for Visi, now IPHouse <Takyoji> Obsidian1723: I will. :P <kermit> i hear visi is taking tons of interviews <kermit> but not hiring anyone <Takyoji> Otherwise I just got out of high school a few months ago, and getting it during high school would be bit useless generally <Takyoji> as it expires over time if I remember correctly <_diablo> for getting into server admin work, what should I do to even start getting into it? I've been setting up my own for a while, but don't really know things formally. Should I be aiming for A+ and such? <_diablo> (just graduated college with a useless degree) <Takyoji> Isn't A+ basic hardware components and understanding how an Windows boots? <kermit> the impression i have being an admin isnt somehting you 'get into'.. its somehting you just are. <Takyoji> how Windows boots* <_diablo> Takyoji: yeah, but all the jobs that I've seen in IT require it... :( <Takyoji> and hardware troubleshooting <_diablo> or even just how to get into IT work e.g. help desk, school networking, administration <_diablo> kermit: how did you start? <kermit> _diablo: i've been using linux since 1996 almost exclusively <kermit> i went from dos to linux, rarely using win <Takyoji> as for Linux+, apparently you can also get LPIC-1 as well with it <_diablo> kermit: but what do you do for work? <kermit> _diablo: i'm unemployeed.. i guess you'd call me a 'linux systems engineer' <kermit> i'll do admin or dev <_diablo> ah, okay. fair enough <kermit> _diablo: i have the opposite problem as you, i have tons of skills but nothing to put on a resume for degrees/certs <_diablo> kermit: yeah, I have no IT degree or cert... Just a fairly useless econ degree. Just graduated and looking for any job now, even mcdonald's <Obsidian1723> Linux+ is lifetime. <kermit> _diablo: no work in econ? <_diablo> kermit: no, not really :( I don't even know where to start <Takyoji> I'm a bit skeptical of lifetime certifications <kermit> _diablo: i dont know much about college but i thought they sort of take care of job placement or push you in the right direction <Obsidian1723> not I.. I dont just get it ands camp on it. I get it and show that I have done XYZ since then. <Takyoji> at least it shows a person jumped through the basic hoop <Takyoji> but yes <_diablo> kermit: yeah, not really. they're not so great lol. they have 55k ppl <kermit> _diablo: which school? <_diablo> kermit: UMN * Takyoji wonders if anyone has an opinion regarding Dakota County Technical College <kermit> _diablo: so they just give you a degree and wave goodby? <_diablo> kermit: yeah, basically <_diablo> Takyoji: no knowledge of it <Obsidian1723> Tak, if Linux+ was basic, mopre people wpould have it. dont underestimate it. <Takyoji> By the way, what does TFTP lack that FTP has? <kermit> lack? its just totally different <kermit> It cannot list directories, and currently has no provisions for user authentication. <Takyoji> ahh <Obsidian1723> Better to use SFTp <Obsidian1723> sftp <Obsidian1723> grrr <Obsidian1723> SFTP <Obsidian1723> I'd onlyu really use TFTP for a PXE/Netboot environment. <kermit> and flashing routers <Takyoji> Well yea, I'd never use anything unencrypted. <Takyoji> except when TFTP is the only thing possible for a device <kermit> yeah i imagine anyone could inject code into the receiving device fairly easily that way <_diablo> kermit: warkitting <_diablo> http://www.indiana.edu/~phishing/papers/warkit.pdf <Obsidian1723> true kermit * Takyoji wonders if anyone happens to know of a decent web service out there for wardriving and mapping wireless networks <Obsidian1723> I just use nmap <_diablo> aircrack-ng <Takyoji> I'm talking about aggregates though <Takyoji> Like WiGLE #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-08 <_diablo> ohhh <Takyoji> This seems interesting, I would assume it's very capable of receiving data: http://w3bguru.com/wiffy-extreme/ <Takyoji> However I wonder in regards of transmission.. <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Yes, LPIC is step-by-step. However, you can take the exams for each level in any order (eg. 102 before 101) <Takyoji> So, someone's implying that using a 64-bit OS is only sane if you have 4GB or more of RAM. Therefore, they just want to use a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit processor. <Takyoji> Is there any factuality to that claim? <Takyoji> or also, as to why they imply "64-bit - Not recommended for daily desktop usage" on the Ubuntu download page. <Takyoji> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/585940 <lubotu1> Ubuntu bug 585940 in ubuntu-website-content "Text reads "not recommended" for 64-bit" [Undecided,Confirmed] <kermit> Takyoji: just minutes ago someone was complaining about a 64 bit version of an app crashing <kermit> in fact i dont think its the app, i think it was sun's java <kermit> its hard to blame the app when it's java and works in the 32 bit version <Takyoji> oh joy, I just found this: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html <Takyoji> Thank you Adobe.. <_diablo> 64 bit flash sucks atm <_diablo> we'll see if they ever fix it.. <kermit> you need to have everyhting be a 64 bit binary for the system to use mor ethan 4GB of ram? <Takyoji> I don't think there's even such a thing as a 64-bit Java app aside from a 64-bit JRE <kermit> yeah, so not even sun's code is stabl eon 64bit <_diablo> kermit: you can run 32 bit apps in 64 bit wrappers. I think they just run on 3 GB of ram... <Takyoji> You can actually allocate more than 4GB of RAM on a 32-bit system <Takyoji> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-linux-4gb-ram-limitation-solution/ <Takyoji> The 32-bit 4GB RAM hard limitation is supposedly a Windows-specific issue. <kermit> my mem total says 3566416, when i have 4GB.. but its close enough to bother figuring out why <Takyoji> It's a GiB-GB issue. <_diablo> oh, that's right PAM fixes it if you patch your kernel that way <_diablo> kermit: you need to use a special kernel to use more than 3.5 GB on a 32 bit kernel <_diablo> s/PAM/PAE/ <_diablo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension <kermit> Takyoji: no i think it's because direct memory devices start taking linda89@example.com mark <kermit> _diablo: ah, thanks <Takyoji> ahh <kermit> linux COULD, maybe, get a couple hundred more MB up there, but i think it just doesnt try <kermit> (could, without pae or 64 bit) <kermit> why, now, i wonder, is pae not on the default ubuntu kernel <_diablo> it's not as well tested across the board and is not necessary for the vast majority of users <kermit> ah <tonyyarusso> lol @ "14:25:01 < Obsidian1723> Honestly, all you need for Linux is the Linux+; I've never seen anyon e ask for a RHCE, UCP, LPICx, etc" <- Linux+ is the "dummy cert", and the rest are the ones you need for real jobs... <kermit> i've been using and working in linux for 14 years straight and i havent heard of any of those <kermit> but i never worked in a large corporation <_diablo> tonyyarusso: to start working in IT, what should I do to start? I just graduated with an econ degree, but much prefer working with linux and computers <_diablo> should I just get A+ certified, or linux+ certified? <_diablo> do you have any suggestions for places to start reading about them and what kinds of jobs match up with which degrees <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: btw, if you take Linux+ before the end of this calendar year it is valid for life. After that they're changing the policy to require renewals. <Takyoji> ahh <tonyyarusso> _diablo: helpdesk requires A+, but admin stuff doesn't. * Takyoji wonders how many here have made a cantenna at all <_diablo> Takyoji: I have! <Takyoji> Yay <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: and Linux+ and LPIC-1 have nothing to do with each other, other than covering a lot of the same content. <_diablo> tonyyarusso: how much work will linux+ be for someone that has basic networking skills (have a dedicated samba, apache, ssh, ftp, mpd server) and runs arch mostly, but reinstalls OSes weekly? I've built a computer... <_diablo> tonyyarusso: (thanks for the help btw) <Takyoji> tonyyarusso: http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/linux.aspx <Takyoji> "A new benefit for CompTIA Linux+ candidates is that they may choose, at the time they take the exams, to have their exam record forwarded to the Linux Professional Institute. Certification in CompTIA Linux+, Powered by LPI, enables candidates to become certified in LPIC-1 as well, enabling further participation in the LPI program if the candidate chooses" <tonyyarusso> _diablo: you'd probably be better off gaining experience with particular things, eg. Apache, before getting a certification. Be able to say you know how to do some things, then add the paper to that. <tonyyarusso> _diablo: all of the + certs are pretty basic really. <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: oooh, interesting. <tonyyarusso> I wonder if the reverse is true. <_diablo> tonyyarusso: okay. so a class for a cert is pretty useless? Just learn it from a book? <tonyyarusso> _diablo: probably. I've had some classes that I had to take for my degree that happened to also cover stuff for a cert, so I took the exam at the end, but I wouldn't pay for a class just to work towards a cert. Except maybe for Cisco stuff if you're into that, since then they'll provide the gear. <_diablo> tonyyarusso: interesting. out of curiosity, what do you plan on doing with your degree? <Takyoji> _diablo: Because I was wondering. Would it be most practical to just shove a USB wireless adapter into a tin can, or use a pigtail and connect that to the adapter? <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Hopefully system / network administration for small companies, schools, or government offices I think. <Takyoji> I was thinking pigtail would be most beneficial, yet I was just reading that supposedly the longer the antenna/cable, the more signal loss. <kermit> i can't decide if i should target admin work or dev work <kermit> or a company small enough that i'd just do both <_diablo> Takyoji: true, I didn't find a massive loss. I did it USB adaptor in the can <Takyoji> ahh, alright, I guess I'll take that approach then <_diablo> tonyyarusso: kermit: where do you find places that are looking for network admins? <_diablo> also, it seems like you kind of are in charge from the beginning. there's not really a training period or anything, right? <Takyoji> and as I was blabbing about earlier: would this design be sane for long distance transmission as well? http://w3bguru.com/wiffy-extreme/ <_diablo> hmmm, idk. i wouldn't see why not <tonyyarusso> _diablo: dunno yet ;) (Currently I'm doing technical writing, user support, and some development, which I found on Craigslist) <tonyyarusso> well, actually I take that back. <_diablo> ah, fair enough. it's tough to get into this since my resume doesn't really have anything. I'm nearly entirely self-taught :-/ <tonyyarusso> I did work as a network admin for about 6 months, at Saint Paul College. Got that by being in the right place at the right time - they asked me if I wanted it. <_diablo> whoa. yeah, i don't even know where to look for something like that <Takyoji> My reason as to thinking why it wouldn't work is that, yes, transmissions that reach it are concentrated to that point, but if you're transmitting back, I'd think the dish would broaden the angle of transmission. <Takyoji> I'm not a radio expert, not even close. But just thinking of it conceptually makes me wonder. <_diablo> Takyoji: ah, true. Mine was just a cantenna, I didn't use any kind of parabolic reflection <tonyyarusso> _diablo: specifically, after my first semester as a student there they asked if I'd be interested in a student-worker position helping out with tech stuff in the department. Two months later my supervisor accepted a promotion, so they offered me his job until it was posted to be re-filled permanently. I had the opportunity to apply to keep it, but they were going to upgrade it to full-time (from half-time), and I didn't want to ... <Takyoji> otherwise I'll just fall back to the cantenna idea. <tonyyarusso> ... deal with that while still in school, so opted to revert to the student-worker position for a couple more months while the new guy got acquainted. <_diablo> tonyyarusso: oh, okay. Interesting. Do you know of any internship opportunities (either paid or unpaid)? I just want to get something on my resume while working a part time or full time job I hate just to cover bills <tonyyarusso> _diablo: not offhand, but feel free to give me a copy of your resume so I know what your skillset is. We've been bringing in contractors for odd jobs at work from time to time, so who knows. <tonyyarusso> Thinking out loud: The LoCo web site should have a resume-posting area. <Takyoji> I just had a great idea guys! <Takyoji> The LoCo web site should have a resume-posting area! <_diablo> tonyyarusso: agreed. <_diablo> lol <kermit> a resume isnt like code, its never 'done' <kermit> i dont know when mine's done.. but i'm pretty sure it's not ye <kermit> t <kermit> :/ <kermit> are there any IT job fairs? <_diablo> tonyyarusso: what exactly would my resume entail? I mean, I have a lot of customer service work experience and I was a server and debate coach for a while, but my computer stuff is basically just what I've done around my apartment and building computers <Takyoji> I haven't even written one yet <Takyoji> perhaps our next meeting could be a lectural meeting on writing a resume. :P <_diablo> that's a good idea :) <_diablo> anyway, gtg, heading back to mpls from chicago <_diablo> ttyl. thanks for all the help <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Describe the technologies you think you can speak competently about. ie, what could I write down that I would want to be asked about in an interview to show them how much I know about it? <_diablo> tonyyarusso: ah, okay <kermit> my resume would be perfect if i was 15 years yuonger <kermit> but theres that begging question, what the hell have i been doing with my time <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: If you want to look at them, http://files.tonyyarusso.com/resume.20070223.comcast.sanitized.pdf http://files.tonyyarusso.com/resume.20090116.para-diddle.sanitized.pdf http://files.tonyyarusso.com/resume.20091217.nagios.sanitized.pdf <tonyyarusso> and try to remind me to point those out to _diablo when he gets back. <kermit> oh i like that format, it doesnt have a comprehensive time log <kermit> unless you're just young <kermit> oh wait, you're just young :/ <tonyyarusso> I am, yeah. Although I don't see much need to change the format drastically for a while - I just drop whatever's least relevant to what I'm applying for. <kermit> if i dont come up with something for the time, people are going to think i was in prison or something <tonyyarusso> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/783087595 <kermit> tonyyarusso: yeah a lot of times i try to report or address issues and the devs say ubuntu has modified their code so talk to ubuntu. <tonyyarusso> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/2010-readers-choice-awards-survey #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-09 <Takyoji> Random thought: think we'll see Firefox 4.0 in Ubuntu 10.10? <tonyyarusso> no <Takyoji> ahh, yea, I guess Firefox 4's intended release date is a bit after the version freeze for 10.10. <tonyyarusso> Not to mention I can't remember the last time Firefox released on schedule. <Takyoji> I just want WebSockets already! xP <Takyoji> GRAH <Takyoji> Apparently on my mother's desktop, she's been having graphical issues which weren't existent AT ALL in any prior versions <Takyoji> Such as cursor being completely invisible (I fixed it yesterday, but now it's persisting again today) <Takyoji> And then today while she's web browsing, suddenly it screen goes black and flashes evenly-spaced (like with a monospaced font) white vertical bars flashing at an interval of 1 second <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: sounds like you accidentally set random_zebra = True in her gdm.conf <Takyoji> I have not touched any type of configuration, and I have the feeling that you're joking. :P <Takyoji> This sounds like the issue, and seems fairly recent: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1477407 <Takyoji> I fail to see how this is low importance... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/563555 <lubotu1> Ubuntu bug 563555 in gdm (Ubuntu) "no mouse cursor" [Low,Confirmed] <Takyoji> Someone needs to vectorize this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MN_Area_Codes.png #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-10 <Takyoji> Ooo http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35688 <Takyoji> I had an interesting thought. <Takyoji> I suppose it would be an interesting experiment to learn how to write a device driver or something for a N64 controller (connected via USB) or similar. <Takyoji> and I'm not a very advanced hardware person, but it should be fairly straightforward <kermit> Takyoji: is that more powerful than the FCC allows? <Takyoji> 1Watt is the limit <Takyoji> as I read somewhere <Takyoji> So it's right on the border of the limit <kermit> i'm surprised, then, that dealextreme doesnt have 5W ones :) #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-11 <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: When is the last time we had a meeting? <tonyyarusso> Too long ago. Takyoji claimed he was going to call one soon. <Takyoji> and I forgot to <tonyyarusso> bad Takyoji <Takyoji_> It's so damn annoying that I can't find any assistance with the random "zebra stripe" issue, especially with even trying to report the damn thing. <Takyoji_> Should I annoy those on #ubuntu-x since nobody on #ubuntu-bugs ever cares? <tonyyarusso> sure, can't hurt <Takyoji> Apparently it's triggered by the screensaver. <Takyoji> Anything complex. <Takyoji> and I still have yet to create a profile on the Ubuntu wiki.. * Takyoji wonders if anyone's alive, to see if his wiki profile is reasonable. <Takyoji> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CalebLangeslag #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-12 <Takyoji> I can haz triaging mentor? <Takyoji> Anyone familiar with bisecting (for regression testing) at all? <_diablo> nope * Takyoji is looking for a vehicle <kermit> Takyoji: what price range? <Takyoji> Under about $1600 (of which is the absolute max, at the moment) <kermit> a friend has a loud scary looking van but with a new set of tires for $200 <kermit> bad muffler and bad b reaks <Takyoji> All I need is a car that operates, and doesn't burn up gas insanely. I don't care if it looks like crap, or the radio/casette player is broken, etc <Takyoji> Airbags would also be desirable. <Takyoji> and I have a mechanically-apt family to resolve any basic problems <Takyoji> I have found like 20 or so potential cars via craigslist. <kermit> this van smells like an airport, so it probably burns a lot of gas <Takyoji> Out of curiosity, anyone trust Ksplice? <kermit> i think there's a system that's supported that for a long time natively.. was it BSD/ #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-13 <Takyoji> Random curiosity: anyone favor a specific open source financing solution? #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-14 <Takyoji> It's pathetic when people or companies burn money on things just for the sake of burning money it seems <Takyoji> for something that even especially limits you of how many connections you can have to the software solution by how much you've paid <Takyoji> "FrontRange GoldMine 7.5" which is a customer relations manager, which requires Windows Server and MS SQL Server as well <kermit> comcast should just start leasing cloud PCs like cable boxes.. the MS user would love it, less access, more DRM, and locked in to one provider. <kermit> though they catn even seem to get a cable box to work decently <Takyoji> heh <Takyoji> otherwise person complains at times of how expensive it is, yet, I also get the feeling that he doesn't want to change solutions at all <Takyoji> It's a company of like up to 5 people. <Takyoji> all the company uses is pretty much that, and basic MS Office applications (though I seldom see them even using such). I believe recently they had a malware infection issue as well, like a week ago. <Takyoji> (and all their workstations have an old version of Adobe Reader installed; which makes me wonder who in the hell is maintaining their systems..) <Takyoji> or even Adobe Reader being installed even, for that matter (rather than an alternative that isn't swiss cheese). xP <Takyoji> It's annoying when there's idiots of an open source solution that just don't give a damn about your input. <Takyoji> CMS Made Simple; was implying that there's a very general error in the installer that isn't helpful. Simply "config.php is not writable" even when it has write privileges to create the file; however, secretly hidden in the documentation, you have to create a blank config.php file <Takyoji> "replytomk3: It's documented in installation instructions. If it's not then complain about it." <Takyoji> I don't think most people RTFM for "quick and simple installers" <Takyoji> It kills me. I can't decide between a netbook or laptop <Takyoji> such as: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dndoan1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 <Takyoji> or http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=105 <Takyoji> or http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwzl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-15 <Obsidian1723> So if anyone here cares, 2 days ago MS stopped supporting XP SP2 and Windows2000 <kermit> whats the main reason to not use SP3? <Takyoji> Also, didn't they recently announce of letting Windows 7 users to fallback to using Windows XP (and I'm not talking in terms via virtualization)? <Takyoji> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/07/xp-fans-get-reprieve-in-form-of-downgrade-rights-extension.ars <Obsidian1723> SP3 has some issues with HP AMDs. <Takyoji> For some reason whenever I try setting up a simple network bridge on my system using bridge-utils, I always end up making internet connectivity dysfunctional. <Takyoji> I also did a packet capture using Wireshark and noticed my system kept asking every second for the MAC address of +1-226-633-4109 (which is the router), and it was receiving the responses, but kept asking EVERY SECOND <Obsidian1723> Delete the MAC tables. It sounds like a Layer 2 issue. <Obsidian1723> I need some opinions how what to add/remove, or streamline/optimize this install script. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/install-script.sh #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-16 <Obsidian1723> http://ln-s.net/5+CO * Obsidian1723 http://futurist.se/gldt/2010/07/03/gnulinux-distro-timeline-10-7/ <kermit> wow, i didnt know that much has branched off slackware.. i started on slackware, maybe there's a usable version of it today. <kermit> argh i hate when people subscribe and unsubscribe to a forum daily. #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-17 <Takyoji> I suppose there's been quite a handful of new distros in the past year <Takyoji> All of which look a bit appealing <Takyoji> There needs to be some type of theming/customization format; so that there isn't all these distros that are just different themes and different packages installed by default.. * Takyoji wonders if mini burnable CDs are still sold.. <Takyoji> Yay http://www.walmart.com/ip/Memorex-24x-Write-Once-Pocket-CD-R-Spindle-For-Data-50-Disc-Spindle/10730659 <Takyoji> The annoying thing though is that they're just about the same price as regular discs.. <Takyoji> I'm trying to think; for secure reasons, should I: have a thin client boot the OS from a CD, but with the web-browser pre-installed; or, have the thin client boot from a CD, but install the web browser automatically on each boot (to ensure the most recent version); or, install the OS to a flash drive and have it update automatically and have a persistent storage? <Takyoji> since the web browser will be the only point of the distro in the first place; for interacting with an inventory system via a web-based interface. <Takyoji> Also, I wonder how "hard" it would be to make a distro from relatively nothing. <Takyoji> Compiling Linux, X11, etc <kermit> its compiling the list of URLs to the sources that i think would be the hardest part #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-19 * Takyoji wonders how many have heard of grsecurity <h00k> Are you guys wanting to participate in Software Freedom Day 2010? <kermit> is admin or dev work something you'd ever find through a temp service? <Obsidian1723> possibly. <Obsidian1723> there is e-lance, dice, other IT sites. <Obsidian1723> Problem with e-lance is Sahaim for Bombay willo do it for pennies. <Obsidian1723> for = from <Obsidian1723> Why not try doing some open source development? <kermit> i'll do dev or admin not on windows or OSX <Obsidian1723> Good way to network, meet people, etc. May lead to paid work, or at least make contacts. <kermit> lead to? i have rent to pay <kermit> its long term thinking like that that is why i'm broke now <Obsidian1723> Well, the flip burgers <Obsidian1723> then <kermit> years of work that hasnt paid off <Obsidian1723> Do what pays, work on FOSS until you can move into it. <kermit> i'm not totally clear what you're suggesting... submit some patches and hope someone from minneapolis sees it and tries to hire me? <kermit> i guess i don't see how, with 1/2000 of the globe's population in minneapolis, networking online is going to be a very direct route to local employment. <kermit> er, online in a the global context of FOSS projects <kermit> as far as networking goes, wearing a 'got linux?' shirt at random bars has been surprisingly effective <Obsidian1723> :D <Obsidian1723> Well, there is a ton of LUGs around, FGTC, etc, may be good places to start? <Obsidian1723> I've heard about some job opportunites through FGTC... <Obsidian1723> Main thing is to get involved in the community you want to be part of, network, get known, do work and get out there in it, be in programming, IT, music, whatever. <kermit> there is a ton of LUGs? i've only seen TCLUG <kermit> getting locally involved is the part i havent done <kermit> i'm all over freenode <Obsidian1723> yeah, gotta do face time. Why not volunteet for FGTC? <kermit> i've never been very locally oriented, i didnt even know about that annual sci-fi con of 5000+ people until this year, and i've been here almost 30 years <Obsidian1723> We even have a channel on here, #FGTC <kermit> i havent heard of it until right now <Obsidian1723> Free Geek Twin Cities, a branch off of the Portalnd Free Geek that started it all. It's a non-profit that breaks down PCs, refurbs them, installs Ubuntu, and gives them olut to low income people, organizations, etc. <Obsidian1723> www.twincitiesfree.geek.org <kermit> a non profit? <kermit> 501c something <Obsidian1723> yeah <kermit> that hostname does not exist <Obsidian1723> www.twincitiesfreegeek.org <Obsidian1723> sorry <kermit> www.twincitiesfreegeek.org does not exist (Authoritative answer) <Obsidian1723> hang on <kermit> maybe freegeektwincities.org <Obsidian1723> http://freegeektwincities.org/ <netbook> Very cool obsidian <netbook> that was a smart kid in that video <Obsidian1723> :D <Takyoji> September 18th for the Free Software Day (just checked) <Takyoji> and you're all terrible for not taking h00k's prompt into consideration. xP <Takyoji> otherwise any ideas by anyone? Here's a couple suggestions: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/StartGuide#What_should__we_do.3F <Takyoji> in other words it's less than 2 months; which is sufficient time to plan something and even have something public <h00k> Wait, huh? <h00k> ooh, SFDay <Obsidian1723> hmm new Winders exploit out. #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-20 <h00k> Obsidian1723: er, surprise? <Obsidian1723> nope <Obsidian1723> This one will be huge. <Takyoji> You asked earlier, or perhaps yesterday :P "h00k: Are you guys wanting to participate in Software Freedom Day 2010?" <Takyoji> and yes, I finally realized I implied it wrong <h00k> Takyoji: :) <Takyoji> Could also have a meeting within this week <Takyoji> Someone, suggest a day; and I shall harass the mailing list <tonyyarusso> any evening but Thursday <Takyoji> Friday? <tonyyarusso> sure <Takyoji> alright <Takyoji> This time I'll be sure to actually email the mailing list, despite my last times that I forgot. <Takyoji> I'll go take a shower and will be sure to forget about notifying the mailing list. :P <Takyoji> Is it too early for testing of Maverick Meerkat yet at all? <tonyyarusso> Nope. Testing's been available for like two months. <Takyoji> I'll add that to the meeting agenda then <Takyoji> Mailing list message sent. <netbook> I'm not on the mailing list, what is this meeting? <Takyoji> One second <Takyoji> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-mn/2010-July/000440.html <Takyoji> This Friday, 7pm #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-21 * tonyyarusso wonders if h00k is around <h00k> tonyyarusso: oh herrow #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-22 <Takyoji> It would be wonderful if I could find a straightforward method for DVRing from my TV tuner card. <Takyoji> I can only really watch and control my TV tuner card in tvtime; I have difficulties within VLC. Additionally, the audio is separate, there's an audio output on the TV tuner card that I have looped to a Line In port on my motherboard. <tonyyarusso> dd if=/dev/tv0 of=/home/takyoji/Videos/ScrubsSes4Ep12.raw <Takyoji> and for the audio? <Takyoji> Otherwise it appears as /dev/video0 <tonyyarusso> same thing! Combine it later. * tonyyarusso is (mostly) kidding <Takyoji> So it's as simple as using dd then? <tonyyarusso> I have no idea. <tonyyarusso> it might be <kermit> dd is overrated * kermit prefers cat <Takyoji> Even though binary information wouldn't be all that useful to see. :P <tonyyarusso> Bah. I have 199 ebooks on my reader. Now I can't go to bed until I find one more. <kermit> Takyoji: see what binary information? <kermit> i cant asssociate that statement with anything said <Takyoji> Of tonyyarusso suggesting to use dd for saving raw binary output from my TV tuner card video output. <kermit> i'm still confused <kermit> all video would be binary <Takyoji> Using 'cat' displays the information being copied, correct? <kermit> it can, but i'd only use it for text <kermit> or, do that for text, with cat <kermit> dumping binary data to a terminal is a bad idea <Obsidian1723> yeah, bad idea... <Obsidian1723> The terminal isn't like the Windows command shell where you can harmlessly type stuff. In Linux, that's programming things. <kermit> i think 'type binaryfile' would have the same results in windows terminal? <kermit> (btw putty is MUCH faster than windows terminal.. at lesat in XP) <kermit> lesat/least <Obsidian1723> XP = dead OS <Takyoji> kermit, the context I was talking in was about all this time was about copying and storing raw data from my TV tuner card; tonyyarusso jokingly implied it was as simple as using 'dd'. And then you interject (if that's the proper term) with: "kermit: dd is overrated" <Takyoji> "* kermit prefers cat" <kermit> i would use cat for that * Obsidian1723 pets cat <Takyoji> Then I was extrapolating upon what you were saying then. * Takyoji writes dog <Obsidian1723> just doun't $ touch self <Obsidian1723> he <Takyoji> oh wait, stupid me; I was thinking of tee <Obsidian1723> h <Obsidian1723> 4pm. time for tee #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-23 <Takyoji> anyone know of a decent transparent file version control system? <tonyyarusso> transparent? <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: what does that mean? <Takyoji> As in, it acts like a typical filesystem and doesn't need anything special of the application you're saving from. In other words, you overwrite a file from a program via saving, when the virtual filesystem just creates a new version of the file, but still keeping other previous versions intact, but not appearing as separate files. <Takyoji> If that makes sense <Takyoji> In fact, I could probably write a FUSE module to do such if I can't find anything to do such. <Takyoji> Virtually, there would be the one file; physically, there would be separate filename of different revisions of the file. <Takyoji> of the same file* <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: bzr + incron <tonyyarusso> 'tis awesome <Takyoji> because a person just wants to work on something in The GIMP, and be able to step back a revision, without having to manually commit to a VCS each time <tonyyarusso> precisely <tonyyarusso> incron is a daemon that watches any files and/or directories that you tell it to, and if they change, runs a command. Set that command to bzr commit, and yay. <Takyoji> ahh, intressant <tonyyarusso> http://paste.ubuntu.com/467813/ <- my commit script <Takyoji> ahh <Takyoji> I love it when there's commercials that are actually thought out and that have a deeper meaning/feeling to it. <Takyoji> I have yet to make an Ubuntu or Linux commercial of my own. :P <Takyoji> I have the capabilities; just never a perfect idea <Takyoji> I still enjoy the Linux IBM commercials. xP <Takyoji> Reason for mentioning it is that I noticed someone referencing to it in the comments on: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/best-advert-for-ubuntu-you-probably.html #ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-24 *
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