#ubuntu-us-tn 2011-03-01 <vychune> o/ <cyberanger> hey vychune <vychune> how you been man <cyberanger> great <vychune> good <cyberanger> and you? <vychune> ok but i been at work since 830 <cyberanger> day not over yet? heh <vychune> -_+- <cyberanger> just think of the overtime <cyberanger> or at least the stable work <vychune> lol <vychune> they cut my overtime <cyberanger> beats a layoff <vychune> true true <vychune> hows the server going? <cyberanger> and I know it beats looking for another job :-/ <vychune> LOL <cyberanger> server? I got a few <vychune> lol <vychune> gtg got caught <cyberanger> uh...ok, chat later <cyberanger> oh, irc work, ah <elijah-mbp> hello <cyberanger> hey elijah-mbp <cyberanger> how's it going <vychune> o/ <cyberanger> hey vychune <vychune> hey' <cyberanger> what server were you asking about? <techMiles> hey cyberanger./ <cyberanger> hey techMiles <techMiles> and hey vychune <vychune> you said you were doing a repository <vychune> hey tech <cyberanger> ah, right, mirror <cyberanger> going well, gotta upgrade some things before it's fully running <cyberanger> but it's covering two lts releases now <cyberanger> and some <cyberanger> techMiles: where did we leave off <techMiles> cyberanger: I installed the alternate ISO to the laptop. <techMiles> that's the last I got it <cyberanger> you did a full install too? <techMiles> cyberanger: hmm? I did a format/install using a disc I burnt the alternate ISO to <cyberanger> ok, that equals a yes then <cyberanger> I'd presume <cyberanger> techMiles: that disc can also do a command line install <techMiles> is that what I ought to have done? lol..... <cyberanger> so if you install virtualbox <cyberanger> and try out some custom installs too, that's one of two ways I do <cyberanger> (other is a net install) <cyberanger> no, you did what you planned on doing <cyberanger> just letting you know that disc is useful for a few reasons <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> also, my server seems to have a hardware problem. lol <cyberanger> I use alternate for full disc encryption, custom installs, and with jigdo and zsync, keep the load off the servers, and get the newest releaes too <techMiles> cyberanger: what do you use for a server? and do you host your own or rent hosting space? <cyberanger> techMiles: both, linode vps <cyberanger> ubuntu, debian <techMiles> would you recommend linode to a semi-novice ? <cyberanger> depends on the wallet, and needs a little <cyberanger> but it's the one I would, for most people <techMiles> heh. very empty wallet (for now. working on that) and needs, mostly just to play. would like to have some "production" stuff on it. <cyberanger> well, 20 a month, mostly to play, is there a spare desktop? <techMiles> that's what is currently failing on me <cyberanger> might be good to try on that, narrow down your thoughts <cyberanger> oh, well, 10 dollars is as low as I've seen <cyberanger> benifits for a bigger co, extra features too, 20 a month, linode is who I'd recommend <cyberanger> also they focus on linux, which is real good <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> can you choose where you have your hosting? <techMiles> at least country? <techMiles> i'd like to have a site up, and since this server I've been hosting myself is failing me. <cyberanger> techMiles: they've got a few DC's one london <cyberanger> others all in the US <techMiles> they list US <cyberanger> techMiles: yeah, and london, uk <techMiles> I'd at least like US. if I can't choose more specifically than that. <techMiles> am looking to get a job soon, or enough for 6+ months of hosting and job next august <cyberanger> newark, atlanta, dallas <cyberanger> freemont ca <cyberanger> and one more? <techMiles> lol. <techMiles> would prob go with atlanta <techMiles> as it'd be stuff mostly for my area <techMiles> college learning I'd gotten and collected to put up for others <cyberanger> I can't remember if it was 5 DC's or 5 US DC's <cyberanger> don't grab ATL <cyberanger> that's the limit <techMiles> hm? <cyberanger> not limit, sorry, advise against <cyberanger> there's a few restrictions at that DC <cyberanger> not linode's fault <cyberanger> port restrictions <techMiles> Ahhh <techMiles> so dallas <techMiles> next closest to my area <cyberanger> or newark <techMiles> where's newark again? >.> <cyberanger> new jersey <techMiles> ahhhh <techMiles> methinks dallas is closer, idk <cyberanger> networks are milliseconds apart <techMiles> yes, but there's latency and jitter w/ distance <techMiles> takes more lag time to get to a server in London than it does to one in Canada <cyberanger> london has times beating newark dallas <techMiles> even though they both ahve to go through customs.. <techMiles> sorry, wejoke at my college <techMiles> that our elearn system has to go through customs, so that's why it takes so long to load <cyberanger> and atlanta just barely better, and my needs rule that out <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> what are you needs w/ it, if I might ask? <cyberanger> the IRC port 6667 is blocked and I keep the possibility open for that <cyberanger> I have proxies on it, for british tv <cyberanger> and testing geoip blocks <cyberanger> on us systems <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> you'll hafta tell me more about all of that sometime. <techMiles> I know about the IRC stuff (some). <cyberanger> (by testing, I mean breaking) <techMiles> lmao <cyberanger> running opennic dns server <cyberanger> small apache server, personal site on it <cyberanger> and this irc client <cyberanger> (some testing, bittorrent on a rare day) <cyberanger> it gets utilized <cyberanger> techMiles: what are you thinking? <cyberanger> and for linode, your not gonna find any major difference in locations, atlanta aside <cyberanger> but idk if your planning for anything more sensitive than most <cyberanger> I know dallas is good, opennic has some servers there <techMiles> how do you mean more sensitive? <cyberanger> you metioned latency as a concern, but my tests showed minute differences between all linode datacenters plus four other data centers <cyberanger> atl won, barely, due to routing, everything heads to the meet me room in atl <cyberanger> followed by newark or london <cyberanger> we're talking millisecond difference, extremely close <cyberanger> but ntp is something where that matters, it's more sensitive <cyberanger> but I wouldn't host an ntp server on a vps <techMiles> nah no ntp <techMiles> millisecond difference is fine <cyberanger> they'll let you move data centers too <cyberanger> I'd choose dallas or newark, if you want a US server <cyberanger> are you thinking of any projects to try first <techMiles> have thought about DNS. <techMiles> thinking more on the opennic dns <techMiles> but I know || that much about opennic <cyberanger> http://www.opennicproject.org <cyberanger> it's worthwhile <techMiles> how so? <cyberanger> well, gives you a chance to learn about bind, dns <techMiles> have been thinking about running a local DNS server that caches the top, say, 100 hits at my house <cyberanger> offers free domains, non-icann tlds (the downside here is lack of usability outside opennic, but that's fine for expemermental and personal projects) <cyberanger> techMiles: what's your router? <techMiles> cyberanger: a 2wire <techMiles> it sucksssss harddd <cyberanger> ah, yeah <techMiles> I swwear one day I'll put every device I can on it and burn it up. <cyberanger> dns cache is all or nothing, but that's ok for dns <cyberanger> it sounds like squid is something to learn for that <techMiles> squid? <techMiles> I know so little! <techMiles> lol <cyberanger> squid proxy <techMiles> I knew that, but didn't know the scope <cyberanger> cacheing proxy <techMiles> ah yeah that rings a bell now.. <cyberanger> keeps a certain amount of http data cached <cyberanger> should cover your needs and some <techMiles> cyberanger: I'd like to run an IRC network, but that'd technically be against a non-competition agreement I have with a network for which I'm staff. so would probably just setup another server for them if I did so. or host a private network that would be outside of the non-competition bit. <techMiles> but I'd like a website, probably wordpress, maybe opennic. <techMiles> probably, after i get the hang of it. <cyberanger> techMiles: your staff on an IRC network that made you sign a non-compete? <techMiles> cyberanger: not made. And actually I could agrgue the non-compete would be null and void on me <techMiles> as I am voluntary help, and don't run a server. <cyberanger> you signed it though <techMiles> aggitating, but I do more work than those that do run a server. others have a set it and forget it method. -_- <cyberanger> a non compete for that? <techMiles> I had/have no aspirations to run an IRC network of my own. <cyberanger> I figure you don't want to say what network <techMiles> it's kind've a moot point to try and run a new network now, rather than run a server linked to an existing one. <techMiles> cyberanger: if you ask directly. lol. Not sure a difference that it makes, but if you ask directly I would tell you. <techMiles> cyberanger: was probably not the best move to agree to the terms of that, but is easily enough undone with resigning as staff. Honestly, very little is done w/ the network that I'd like to see done anyway. <cyberanger> well, I'm more suprised by the non compete really, I've run some servers, consider linking to some small network if I get another going again <techMiles> see I'd like to do that. just for the experience, I s'pose. <techMiles> but everyone goes to huge servers nowadays anyway <techMiles> growth is so slow <cyberanger> well, I'm on mutiple servers, so that doesn't hurt really <techMiles> this one is tiny, in comparison to the top 10 <techMiles> but honestly I like little on freenode but this channel and the xchat channel <techMiles> don't much like undernet or quakenet, either. <cyberanger> I'm suprised the non-compete is that limited <techMiles> how do you mean? <cyberanger> most have some idea of protecting profit, how do you profit from irc <techMiles> this is mostly parallel with the NDA. <cyberanger> and seems rare that you resign and done <techMiles> well, the NDA holds even after resignation. <cyberanger> usually it's resign and 30 days <cyberanger> an NDA is the same, protect bussiness intrests <techMiles> but the non-compete... it can't really be held after we resign. for full operators it might be afterwards. <techMiles> but mostly it's that I can't take what is applied there to other networks. at least the proprietary. <cyberanger> what could be proprietary, irc has had little proprietary involvement, now I gotta ask what the network is <techMiles> I have no desire to resign, so I haven't remembered the exact policy. <techMiles> lol. proprietary as in, setup-specific, server configs that would violate security, then there's hand-written code they've used. <techMiles> proprietary was a bad word there. <techMiles> intellectual property would protect what I am talking asbout <techMiles> I'm actually not sure if I signed a non-compete/NDA for 2011 <techMiles> specifically for 2011 <cyberanger> I've never had a non compete (the NDA wasn't a true non compete, more of a protection I'd not harm their security) <cyberanger> but plenty of NDA's, and mimicking a config never was an issue, even for DoD grade smartcards <techMiles> this one uses... ehh.. some more specific stuff? heh. <cyberanger> not sure what IP they have exactly, hand written code makes sense under that <techMiles> idk <techMiles> and ofc server-setup is NDA <techMiles> idk if there's be an issue with running another network so long as I did no advertising whatsoever about it. <techMiles> I know there's one guy who does. but he's like me, voluntary help made staff. but his was pre-existing <cyberanger> the whole thing is volentary <cyberanger> err... voluntary <techMiles> I say voluntary meaning unpaid/only semi-official <techMiles> but yes. <cyberanger> claims years of exp.. in irc, nobody gets paid <cyberanger> claims openness <techMiles> sorry. I specify voluntary so much because most hear 'staff' and think 'employed' and think 'paid' <cyberanger> and yet an NDA, non compete <cyberanger> techMiles: understand, but of what I read, nobody is paid on this <techMiles> I've never heard of anyone getting paid <cyberanger> when does the NDA and non compete expire <techMiles> I think it is yearly, and/or when you resign. the pages where they NDA was hosted in the forums aren't accessible. at least -I- can't find them. <techMiles> I need to actually request those.. <cyberanger> so, your currently not under them it sounds like <techMiles> if I don't have access to the documentation, no, not really. <cyberanger> you might want to read over that closer, and ask a bit more this time <techMiles> Indeed. <techMiles> I incquired where they'd gone and said I couldn't remember saying anything about 2011 directly, and that they aren't availasble anymore where I can see. <cyberanger> nothing wrong with NDA's (I have issues with some non competes) <techMiles> I remember clearly reading it, and that I had no issues with it. <cyberanger> they both can be overly broad, but usually NDA's can only cover what's not public under law <cyberanger> thus configs are hard in this context to cover <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> I think it covers passwords, salts, etc <cyberanger> due to limited ways to config, sooner or later you'll get it close <cyberanger> now that is good, approate for an NDA <cyberanger> irrevalant for a non compete <techMiles> I just hope this doesn't make the owner paranoid about me. :P <techMiles> He's also become a friend. He's the first owner of a network i've ever actually seen active on the network <cyberanger> good, I hope he'd not be paranoid about this, or asking for clarification on a non compete or nda <cyberanger> a non compete in IT that's too broad can be a job killer <cyberanger> but for tn, usually tossed out in court, right to work state <techMiles> he lives in NL, but yeah US law would apply as I am a resident here <cyberanger> hard to say with international law, all the more reason to clarify then <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> I don't doubt his intentions as protecting his effort, if it's just salt info and passwords, maybe a spefic config value <techMiles> I think it's mostly to protect the network. <techMiles> i.e. : don't steal my users, don't steal my methods, don't steal my security information <cyberanger> yeah, but that can be too much there <cyberanger> I mean, I'm on 5 networks, did freenode steal me from oftc <techMiles> are you staff? <cyberanger> there are similarties, differences, I'm on both networks <cyberanger> not on those two <techMiles> and no it means things like me advertising. or saying things like 'hey come over to techMilesnetwork.com for a better chat' <cyberanger> which is why I chose them <cyberanger> ok, so you leave account related info alone, maybe metion your learning about ircd's, maybe peering with a friend (as a disclaimer, before you do anything) <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> I will see. <techMiles> He gets paranoid, as many have screwed him over. <cyberanger> set boundries, he explains any methods he has protected, you don't advertise, keep the peace <cyberanger> I do get that <techMiles> I'd love to do moer with networks, etc. <techMiles> there's nothing against the NDA/non-compete to help on others. <techMiles> I'm not entirely sure it's against it to be staff. <techMiles> on another one <techMiles> I'd love to help more places grow and get better than they are. <techMiles> but it takes sooo long. <techMiles> the one network I was made an admin of once, I was the main one doing work <techMiles> there was a root who didn't even fix a tiny netsplit. I fixed it. <techMiles> and He was the one who supposedly helped recompile the network. <techMiles> it -still- aggitates me <techMiles> very much an A-H, he was <cyberanger> yeah well, you find that everywhere it seems <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> it'd have been fine, if he didn't attempt to lord over me that he was root and I wasn't. <techMiles> root admin* <cyberanger> I'm not saying build an irc network, btw, just that the nda and non compete seems odd <techMiles> it does. <techMiles> but I think it's because he is, as I said, used to getting screwed over and wants to protect himself and his network as best as he can. <techMiles> Most of his income was from his freelance work <techMiles> is from his freelance work* <techMiles> and his communities which are tied into the IRC network <cyberanger> yeah, I understand why NDA's exist, and also how they can be abused <techMiles> I honestly kept hoping eh'd turn me over to a netadmin position, so I could do more, esp when the first person he thought was good for the job turned out to not take is as seriously as need be. <techMiles> know of any networks that need good help? <techMiles> :P <cyberanger> well, question is if they want it too <cyberanger> lol <techMiles> hmm? <techMiles> I meant to answer questions in a #help channel <cyberanger> #freenode could at times <cyberanger> really any network has a channel like that, could <cyberanger> perhaps the north american pirate party network <cyberanger> and due to the fairly limited focus of that network <techMiles> the what? <techMiles> ol <techMiles> lol* <cyberanger> that'd be a good pic <cyberanger> pick* <cyberanger> irc.pirateparty.ca <techMiles> what's it for? <cyberanger> (also covers the US and Mexico) <cyberanger> Pirate Party and some other groups <cyberanger> digital rights type groups <techMiles> ah <cyberanger> Pirate Party is a political party with only one focus, digital rights <techMiles> I see. <cyberanger> outside that issue, things are independent of the party <cyberanger> it's not that big in the us <cyberanger> gaining traction in canada <cyberanger> and other groups are on the network too <techMiles> I see no help channel. and their opers channel is public? <cyberanger> #main I think <cyberanger> afaik, public, not 100% though <techMiles> anywhere else? <techMiles> honestly am a bit wary given the issues digi rights brings up. <cyberanger> not afaik <cyberanger> oh, other networks, yeah <cyberanger> really, any network can use it <cyberanger> as time goes on, quality fails <techMiles> recommendations? <techMiles> my main duty at the other network is documentation <cyberanger> a friend in #opennic has a smaller network, unfortunately the name slips my mind atm though <cyberanger> I asked, he's out atm <techMiles> I'd love to have a server up and going to do many of the projects I've been wanting to do. <cyberanger> and having an ircd for this one, your current one, is an idea <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> i've done so before <techMiles> was working on services, it kept dieing from the sendq <techMiles> was working on fixing that <techMiles> and idr what happened <techMiles> what IRCd do you recommend? <cyberanger> sounds like you've got a list <cyberanger> depends on the network <techMiles> right. squid, opennic and IRCd <cyberanger> kinda a thing they like in sync <techMiles> well, personally I've found Unreal to be to my liking. <techMiles> might try out the RC they have. <techMiles> of 3.2.9 <cyberanger> small list then, the ircd might mean compiling it <techMiles> I'ev managed compiling an IRCd before <techMiles> I compiled xchat from source whenever there's a new release out or I redo a computer <cyberanger> yeah, but nice to skip when you can <cyberanger> just seems cleaner to use a package system <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> squid for a local network, makes more sense to be on a local network <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> but that's simple <techMiles> but the question is, how would I have to set that up. use a proxy to the server? <cyberanger> to the server, or on the server? <techMiles> the proxy would be the server, wouldn't it? with squid? <cyberanger> it'd be running on some machine <techMiles> well should I put it on my linux server or my windows desktop? <cyberanger> my network, it's on the router, firewalled from the outside <techMiles> oh see i can't do that, sadly. <cyberanger> well I'm partial to linux <techMiles> I'd love to. <techMiles> what router do you have? <cyberanger> yeah, homebuilt router <techMiles> Ahh <techMiles> see if I have a machine that could take it, I'd do that. <cyberanger> linux kernel <techMiles> I'd basically have a server that acted as a router, DHCP server, firewall, and DNS proxy <cyberanger> doesn't take much really <cyberanger> well, that'd have to be local <techMiles> installing on server. <techMiles> at least for now it works fine. <techMiles> if/;when I get the money, I want to build a better server. <techMiles> hopefully with two NICs <techMiles> so I can use it as a router, dhcp, firewall, etc <techMiles> at least, more streamlined than with only one NIC? <techMiles> have one incoming, one outgonig. <cyberanger> yeah, more than one NIC, dhcp (the kernel has iptables, there is benifits with dns being local) <cyberanger> toss in a serial port, gpsd, and ntpd, a compatible gps <techMiles> gps? <cyberanger> you can run a local ntp server even <techMiles> wow. <techMiles> ntp is.. ? I forget. :/ <cyberanger> yeah, for the time signal <cyberanger> network time protocall <techMiles> Ah <techMiles> would probably pass on that one. <techMiles> until I had a really primo machine <techMiles> and GbE <cyberanger> yeah, be fun to try though <cyberanger> yeah, at least for the LAN <cyberanger> with a switch to match <techMiles> yeah. <techMiles> I have a cisco catalyst 2900XL <techMiles> but oneof the fans is going <cyberanger> btw, primo in my case is an old hp machine cira 1997 <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> I say primo meaning one that isn't failing atm <cyberanger> with a second nic <techMiles> this current server is failing. I think the HDD might be. <techMiles> and it's terrible to work inside the case <techMiles> so basically I want a new case to shove it all into. eventually update some of the components, etc. <techMiles> or slowly update the stuff, so that I can have a progressively better machine for it <cyberanger> there's a point where that's costlier <techMiles> yeah. <cyberanger> compared to a new build <techMiles> indeed. <techMiles> hmm <techMiles> it isn't finding the squid.conf <cyberanger> did you install squid with apt <techMiles> yes <cyberanger> ls /etc/squid/squid.conf says not found? <techMiles> yes <techMiles> wait lemme see <techMiles> yes <techMiles> not found <cyberanger> that's not right <techMiles> I used squid3 <techMiles> perhaps just squid? <techMiles> or squid-common ? <techMiles> now there is a squid.conf <cyberanger> guessing you added squid the <techMiles> the config file is loooong <cyberanger> yeah, is this on your lan? <techMiles> yes <cyberanger> then it's not too hard <cyberanger> localhost is enabled by default <cyberanger> localnet is setup, all rfc1918 addresses <techMiles> I don't plan on giving external access w/o some form of authentication. <cyberanger> just gotta remove the comment for it, under http_access <cyberanger> and your firewall covers that already <cyberanger> plus the acl <cyberanger> since port forwarding isn't set <cyberanger> there are a few auth methods, for a lan only setup though as described, that's enough <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> where's the http port bit? <techMiles> or do I need to worry about that? <cyberanger> bind to 669-615-7011:3128 <techMiles> ah <techMiles> it's already setup for me. <techMiles> lol <cyberanger> so ifconfig addresses, 3128 <techMiles> so, I just change the proxy on this computer to server.ip.address:3128? <cyberanger> if it's the same machine, localhost or 669-615-7011 <cyberanger> yeah <cyberanger> if it's a different machine on the lan, remove the comment on http_access localnet and restart it <cyberanger> then it's the serveripaddress <techMiles> am looking for localnet.. <techMiles> don't see it for http_access <techMiles> can I just add it with the http_access allow localhost ? <cyberanger> if it's the same machine, yes <techMiles> mmk <cyberanger> #http_access allow localnet#http_access allow localhost <cyberanger> http_access allow ncsa_auth_users <cyberanger> those are the two default lines commented out on mine, plus my auth line added <cyberanger> you should have the two, but you have localhost, that's good <cyberanger> suprised localnet is left out <techMiles> how do I know if it's working? :) <cyberanger> tell your browser to use it, then view something obscure (I use apple, since I never seem to run into any) <techMiles> hmm tells me access denied. <cyberanger> what's your http_access rules? <techMiles> what you described. <techMiles> localhost allowed, and localnet allowed. <techMiles> but it lets me ping google via terminal just fine <cyberanger> well, the termial isn't set for the proxy, and ping sidesteps it <cyberanger> did you remove the comment tag # <techMiles> yes <cyberanger> what's localnet and localhost defined as? <techMiles> idk where do I define those? <cyberanger> localnet by default is all rfc1918 addresses <cyberanger> localhost is the lo address <cyberanger> hrm <cyberanger> look for <cyberanger> acl localhost src 669-615-7011/32 <cyberanger> then three lines like it <cyberanger> acl localnet src .... <cyberanger> acl localnet src .... <cyberanger> acl localnet src .... <techMiles> I see them <cyberanger> sudo service squid restart <cyberanger> and try <techMiles> unknown instance <techMiles> ah it's squid3 <techMiles> still nuttin <techMiles> ahhhh <techMiles> it has two dirs. /etc/squid and /etc/squid3 <techMiles> I had been trying this in /etc/squid/ <techMiles> tht's probably the issue <cyberanger> yeah, that's been annoying <techMiles> 2011/03/01 02:02:20| aclParseAccessLine: ACL name 'localnet' not found. <techMiles> FATAL: Bungled squid.conf line 648: http_access allow localnet <cyberanger> I'd purge squid3 <cyberanger> it's the newest, a bit of a rewrite <techMiles> yeah. <cyberanger> I'm slowly migrating over <cyberanger> they changed enough on it <techMiles> It worksssss!!!!! <techMiles> now, a great feature (impo) would be a web-based management system for this.... <techMiles> to add blacklisted/whitelisted sites <techMiles> keyword filter stuff mayhap <cyberanger> hrm <cyberanger> wonder if webmin fits that bill <cyberanger> but I find config files better <cyberanger> easier to lock down <cyberanger> no browser expliot risks <techMiles> mmhhmmm <techMiles> webmin DOES say it works with squid <techMiles> but best to learn the hard-way? <cyberanger> eh, well, it's the way I learned <cyberanger> best is a little more defined than that <techMiles> I'd have it where I want it much more quickly using webmin <techMiles> but I'd learn more if i use the conf files <cyberanger> and if webmin breaks <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> does it also handle ip tables? <cyberanger> and what method will google cite more <cyberanger> webmin, idk <cyberanger> again, I issue shell commands <cyberanger> for that <techMiles> yeah. <cyberanger> and learn, read <techMiles> it doesn't say it. <techMiles> but yeah. <cyberanger> it seems to be repetition really <techMiles> yeah <techMiles> okay. so question <cyberanger> do it enough, burned in <techMiles> if I do a shift+refrresh, does that also recache the page on the server? <cyberanger> shift refresh? <techMiles> eh. a re-get of the page. <cyberanger> you mean, hit refresh, f5 so on <techMiles> bia the browser <cyberanger> it grabs the cache bits, checks for new content <techMiles> shift+refresh, where it doesn't use the local cache, but redownloads the page from the webserver <cyberanger> some content can be told to ignore the cache, and advertisers make it look like it's allways changed <cyberanger> so it'll allways grab that outside the cache <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> but squid trys to hand you it's cache contents if it can <techMiles> yeah. <techMiles> what I'd like to do, is eventually get it versatile and stable enough to have the router set to use it for the DNS. <techMiles> not sure if that'd be wise, though. <techMiles> where do I tell it how many pages to keep? and/or for how long? <cyberanger> if it's stable, DNS works <techMiles> I'd mostly be worried about the hardware being stable. <cyberanger> it's set up to be dynamic nowadays, you can fix that if you'd like, but I'd advise against it for most people <cyberanger> how much it can hold in ram, and how long, depends on how your ram is utilized <cyberanger> and makes sense since people have a habit on visiting the same site over and over, it'll cache it <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> while on the same token, so many sites are dynamic, to hold it longer, pointless, since squid has to change it anyhow <techMiles> I'd like it set to, say, if it gets 5 hits on same domain, cache all pages from that domain for x days, if it gets 20 hits on same site, cache that site for, say, 3 days. <cyberanger> as for dns, you usually want mutiple servers listed anyhow <cyberanger> so, lanaddress, then two opennic servers maybe <cyberanger> if lanaddress is on top, it'll allways get queued <cyberanger> if it's hardware fails, it skips on down <techMiles> WOW big difference atm. <techMiles> from a page I loaded a bit ago on the laptop <techMiles> and just now on the desktop <cyberanger> now, a poor config can cause issues, but the configs are simple enough and hey, that's what testings for <cyberanger> both via squid? <techMiles> yes. <techMiles> I will probably leave it how it is but for playing around now. <cyberanger> and that's the funny thing, nobody values a good cache system anymore <techMiles> I do! at least after seeing this I certainly dooo <techMiles> would be nice if it could, like I think you've mentinoed to me before, go out and get packages and updates pre-downloaded. <cyberanger> schools see it's benifits, but have no clue why (due to their filters, using squid or something in the process) <techMiles> yeah. <techMiles> my school could use a good DNS cache for their online learning system alone. <cyberanger> export http_proxy=http://669-615-7011:3128 <cyberanger> export ftp_proxy=http://669-615-7011:3128 <cyberanger> sudo apt-get update <cyberanger> sudo apt-get -d dist-upgrade <techMiles> that'll do the packages and etc pre-gotten? <cyberanger> that'll only download, but the next machine (at least the shared packages) will use the same cache if set too <techMiles> woot <cyberanger> and so it's still a speed up <techMiles> but I only set it in the browser. <techMiles> not whole-system. <cyberanger> remove -d and it'll install <cyberanger> thus the export lines <techMiles> and what about on the server itself? will it use the squid proxy automagically? <techMiles> I'm onfused. do I put the export lines into the squid.conf ? <cyberanger> no, in the terminal (for all the time, one of the bashrc files, or run them as a command now, for this run) <cyberanger> there's two bashrc files, $HOME/.bashrc <cyberanger> and /etc/bashrc <techMiles> uh oh. it's stuck on <techMiles> something <cyberanger> the difference is the user it's under <cyberanger> uh, what's stuck <techMiles> 82% [Connecting to security.ubuntu.com 669-615-7011)] <techMiles> gets stuck there <techMiles> ah fixed that time <cyberanger> what command <techMiles> sudo apt-get update <techMiles> al;ways hangs at that one. <techMiles> but fixes after <cyberanger> security.ubuntu.com is only two servers, if I recall <cyberanger> kinda bad if they get hammered <techMiles> man it is NOT going to that security.ubuntu.com server <cyberanger> thus why I try not to mirror them, if I can (I mirror from a mirror first, then archive.ubuntu.com, then security.ubuntu.com, to try and avoid hitting it for long) <techMiles> must be busy <techMiles> everybody doing auto-updates or something at 2am? <techMiles> went slooooow but finally finished <cyberanger> heh, that sucks <cyberanger> well, 2am in the CST <techMiles> abnd you'll hafta teach me how to mirror. <cyberanger> 03:44 here <cyberanger> that's gonna take disc space <techMiles> yeah. <techMiles> if I could build me a home server for all the stuff I wanna do. <techMiles> it'd be grand. <techMiles> I'd have a HDD set aside for it. <cyberanger> how big? <techMiles> idk. how big of one would I need? <cyberanger> depends on how much your mirroring I guess <techMiles> lol. <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> just lucid and hardy is 125GB, the whole ubuntu archive is I think over 500Gb now <cyberanger> the releases mirror seems to constantly stay shy of 70GB <cyberanger> releases is cd images and whatnot <cyberanger> apt is looking at archive <techMiles> hmm.. <techMiles> what would you recommend? <techMiles> I keep my server on latest LTS <cyberanger> and the portion I'm currently mirroring (looking at grabbing a full mirror, just gotta upgrade to that) is enough for me <techMiles> and PC on latest stable, sometimes latest beta. <cyberanger> so just lucid I take it, and maverick atm <techMiles> yeah <cyberanger> beta seems to change so much, and you've got small amount of machines, idk if it's worth it to you <techMiles> would be nice to also mirror maybe, the desktop, alternate, and server ISO's <cyberanger> a caching proxy might be enough for you <cyberanger> well the iso's are simplier <cyberanger> and I can see that <techMiles> I already do a semblance of mirroring the ISOs. <techMiles> I download and leave them open in torrent for seeding for a few days/week <techMiles> until the #'s go down <cyberanger> I've got some plans that justify a mirror more, from installfests to maintaining mutiple machines at a sci-fi convention, and I want to presume that they'll become offline, too much traffic at the hotel (killed the network by having email checked in the morning and streaming netflix at night to put everyones kids to sleep) <cyberanger> and I'd like to actually stick it in a datacenter, and host a public mirror <techMiles> it's bedtime though <techMiles> great learning session and discussions. <techMiles> tyvm cyberanger <techMiles> g'night <cyberanger> quite welcome <cyberanger> heh, whoops, missed that timing <chibihogoshino> ah.. tea in the am is so nice <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: well, the brits do agree tea time is 4 o'clock, I think your 12 hours early <chibihogoshino> it is 4 tho <cyberanger> thus 12 hours early, not 11 or 13 <chibihogoshino> 4 o clock is 4 o clock <cyberanger> but they meant 1600 <chibihogoshino> baa.. thats to late <chibihogoshino> i have tea now .. it will be cold by then <cyberanger> why? ;-) <chibihogoshino> cold tea isnt good <cyberanger> reheat it;-) <chibihogoshino> eww <cyberanger> hehe <Xpistos> What up peeps <Xpistos> wrst <wrst> hey Xpistos, a belated hello to you <orias> o/ <vychune> o/ <cyberanger> hey orias <cyberanger> wrst: it's not like you to be that late <cyberanger> techMiles: DarkDNA IRC network <orias> lol * cyberanger is holding a virtual party here, virtual fake ID's will be checked <cyberanger> you don't look like a bill gates, wearing a tux shirt, come in ;-) <techMiles> irc.darkdna.net ? <cyberanger> techMiles: yeah <techMiles> cyberanger: I do not see you there. <cyberanger> techMiles: that's pretty much cause I'm not atm, lol <techMiles> cyberanger: you forget the port with that? #ubuntu-us-tn 2011-03-02 <cyberanger> did I, I think it's the common standard <techMiles> nah <techMiles> I went in, and idt it's the one you wanted me to join. lol. <cyberanger> 6667 6697+SSL <techMiles> they directed me to try port 6666 <cyberanger> try 6697+ssl <techMiles> what chan <techMiles> ? <cyberanger> sorry, distractions <cyberanger> I'll have to look <techMiles> np <techMiles> cyberanger: do you know anything about ndiswrapper? <cyberanger> techMiles_: two things, one, it means your wireless card has the lowest level of linux support <techMiles_> actually it was a stupid issue... I restarted both routers (ione rebooted itself, actually. O_o) and then I restarted the other one <techMiles_> and ti's fine now <cyberanger> and two, means you gotta use a half baked approach to extract driver details to get a working card, from a usually half baked windows driver <cyberanger> cool <chibihogoshino> something just blew up and the lights flicked off for a second <chris4585> chibihogoshino, that doesn't sound too good <techMiles> anybody tried gnome-shell yet? <chibihogoshino> i havnt <chibihogoshino> why ? <techMiles> curiosity.. <techMiles> am testing it, myself. <chris4585> techMiles, not lately, but I really can't wait until they're released it <chris4585> they've* <techMiles> whoa.. <techMiles> I just added a ppa of the testing. <techMiles> me like so far.. <techMiles> already.l <chibihogoshino> i dont see the point <chris4585> chibihogoshino, well I kind of do, and I kind of like it, but I'm eager to try it to see if its a better way to use a computer.. <chris4585> but generally I just like trying new stuff <techMiles> ohh it's SEXY. <chibihogoshino> im going to go with. meah <chris4585> techMiles, I agree, but I'd really like to see it go further with more options.. <techMiles> it's still only in testing though guys. <chibihogoshino> uh huh.. shuuur <chibihogoshino> thats what the guy who discovered acid said <techMiles> they ever get the netbook remix WM too work faster <chibihogoshino> ohh.. i just totally read that wrong .. disregard what i said.. <techMiles> lol. wat??? <chris4585> techMiles, do you have the version with only a close button on the title bar? <techMiles> chris4585: uhh. no. <chris4585> techMiles, maybe you should try that one <techMiles> I have the one from http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DistributionPackages <techMiles> the ppa:ricotz <chris4585> techMiles, http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/ <techMiles> I imagine that there will be an option to have those back. <techMiles> and if you have a hotcorner (right term?) minimizing is kind've a moot point. <techMiles> for me it is <chris4585> also http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/just-why-has-gnome-3-removed-window-controls-entirely/ <techMiles> I get it the minimize/maximise buttons are gone. <chris4585> well one thing minimizing does is hide the contents of a window, I just hope they put a emphasis on a option to do the same with gnome3 <chris4585> shell* <techMiles> for me, if I am using hotcorners, I'd just use the 'show desktop' <chibihogoshino> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_au7AqXxC0 * wrst yawns <electricus> morning <electricus> nice woot right now <electricus> apparently good linux support too <xTEMPLARx> eh? <wrst> xTEMPLARx: www.woot.com <wrst> xTEMPLARx: you mean you don't woot? <xTEMPLARx> been a long time since I've visited that site wrst... forgot all about it <wrst> well xTEMPLARx get your woot on <Its_Xpistos> Hey everybody <Its_Xpistos> IRC ing from remote today <Its_Xpistos> it is nice having the Alt3red Egos IRC client available anywhere I go! <Its_Xpistos> lol <cyberanger> lol <cyberanger> glad you like that too <cyberanger> I can ssh in from anywhere too <Its_Xpistos> Yes, but I am not ssh in * cyberanger gasps for air on the moon, remembered the netbook, left the O2 tanks on my couch <cyberanger> Its_Xpistos: quassel? <Its_Xpistos> I am on a windows box with no space to install <cyberanger> oh, webchat * cyberanger never said install, points to portaputty <Xpistos_agin> Stupide Internet Explorer <Xpistos_agin> http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=AE-Guest&channels=alt3redegos&uio=OT10cnVlJjExPTQx30 * cyberanger should have looked at Xpistos_agin hostmask * cyberanger never said install, points to portaputty <Xpistos_agin> That is the link i have on alt3redegos.com <Xpistos_agin> goes right to the AE chat room <Xpistos_agin> nice <cyberanger> webchat.freenode.net made that simple <Xpistos> That's better <Xpistos> I need to get screen protectors for a MyTouch 4G and an Optimus-T. Anybody know a good site? <cyberanger> wrst: I just thought of a way for quasel to earn my respect actually, portableapps.com <Xpistos> Yeah, you still wouldn't respect quasel cyberanger <cyberanger> currently it's pchat and an irc proxy <wrst> Xpistos: cyberangerjust has no respect :P <Xpistos> LOL <cyberanger> Xpistos: I didn't say highly respect <cyberanger> just respect <cyberanger> Xpistos: hrm, mytouch 4g should be common <cyberanger> dunno about the optimus-t, probally as hard as my T-Mo G@ <cyberanger> dunno about the optimus-t, probally as hard as my T-Mo G2 <Xpistos> nobody else huh, you pack'a bastards. <Xpistos> wrst, I know you are holding out on me <cyberanger> Xpistos: not all android owners are here atm <cyberanger> doh <cyberanger> gotta run myself, bbiab <cyberanger> wrst: btw, I was serious on that bit about quassel <cyberanger> servers have no bussiness being portable, but I keep Portable PuTTY for the rainiest of days <cyberanger> and with windows, it rains it pours <cyberanger> quassel portable makes sense, with so many gui loyal <cyberanger> and the better to get them off windows <wrst> yeah i agree cyberanger, or a cli quassel client would be cool also #ubuntu-us-tn 2011-03-03 <cyberanger> wrst: seems a bit redundant with ssh, but yeah <cyberanger> I'm not using xorg right now, why bother with a netbook, when all I want is to look something up and chat <cyberanger> I might be the few, but I wouldn't say rare <vychune> o/ <chris4585> I noticed midori surfs the internet faster than chrome does when I'm under FAP <chris4585> hrm.. interesting <cyberanger> chris4585: not heard of midori, but there's some reasons I can understand that <cyberanger> how often do you get under fap? <chris4585> cyberanger, :O <chris4585> cyberanger, well, depends, my brother just moved in and hes just now getting how it works.. <chris4585> but at least 4 times the past month (due to him moving in) <chris4585> we get a free token to reset it, but otherwise its $10 to reset it to normal again <chris4585> or just wait out the 24hour slowness <chris4585> before he moved in it was rare, once a month? or twice <chris4585> I try my very best to prevent it though <chris4585> for example... lets say for the daily bandwidth we only have 10mbs left, and there is an hour or so.. I will inplug the router to prevent us going over the bandwidth <chris4585> which is better because, 1hr with no internet is way better than 24hours of slow ass internet <chris4585> </rant> <cyberanger> well, I understand, between my end as a hughesnet middleman (somewhere between corprate and consumer, working with a contractor, lose lose in ways, but I'd do it again) <chris4585> I sometimes look at the rate the internet vanishes to make the decision, just depends lol <cyberanger> and my exp. with celluar <cyberanger> which I'm doing again, sorta like a FAP too, 5gb a month, or I'm throttled, and I can reset it for another $40 <cyberanger> which is not too bad, it lasts most of the month if I'm careful, and it's just like paying the bill early really <cyberanger> but I've deployed all my old tricks and then some, just to further keep it down <chris4585> yeah, I tell you though they don't know how much I appreciate the free token <cyberanger> one a month, right? <chris4585> yes, we don't get to choose when and it doesn't add up, I think it appears around the 15th or so <chris4585> right now I'm really curious as to why midori seems to run faster than chromium <chris4585> sometimes I take advantage of the fact if I know we have the free token, in a day thats about 900mbs worth of bandwidth <cyberanger> sounds right, on the token <cyberanger> if midori has a cache, uses it better, and is careful on any background networking tasks <cyberanger> prefetching, <chris4585> ah, well I certainly wish chrome would do the same <cyberanger> chris4585: midori doesn't say much , just guesses <cyberanger> logical possibilities <cyberanger> some of which I've got in between squid proxy and mozilla firefox (and an addon here and there) for the same effects <cyberanger> there were tricks in browsers and such, that people kinda removed, forgot about and such, useful in the dial up era, some are starting to crop back up for celluar connections <cyberanger> but not alot, and they'd excell for satellite too <chris4585> cyberanger, ah well thats interesting, so far its guessing pretty spot on <chris4585> on this one website at least, for some very odd reason it loaded facebook mobile I believe instead of standard facebook <chris4585> that was fine I guess, just not used to seeing that.. <chris4585> I got what I needed and faster than chrome would have done for now <cyberanger> I've done alot of digging around, to find these tricks, loading a mobile site is one <cyberanger> usually that's a browser's user agent trick <cyberanger> and it's probally an obscure one <cyberanger> which would explain that <chris4585> well it worked <chris4585> at first though I thought I typed facebook.com wrong and thought it was a insecure trick or something <chris4585> lookalike website I mean <chris4585> I give it midori credit though while using these tricks and such it renders scripts rather nicely or on par with chromium <cyberanger> idk if that's it's intent <cyberanger> I mean, I don't see much contrasting it to chrome <cyberanger> it's nice reguardless <cyberanger> but idk if it's intentional <cyberanger> OH YES <cyberanger> man, my hometown hockey team is going to the playoffs again, means I might still be able to catch a game afterall <Xpistos> Guess who just got a big boy phone <wrst> Xpistos: what did you get? <Xpistos> MyTouch 4G from T-Mobile <Xpistos> wife got a Optimus-T and son got Samsung t669? <wrst> wow you guys stepped up into it didn't you... 4G!! <Xpistos> Well I did <Xpistos> I think hers is 3g? <Xpistos> My wife said this is what I really want and this way she will stop hearing me bitch all the time. Her words not mine. <wrst> ha ha <wrst> well congrats i love my phone <Xpistos> thank you <Xpistos> now how do I tell if I am getting 4g or not? <Xpistos> cause my connection icon says E above it <wrst> i have no clue Xpistos i'm on verizon, and it says 3G when i'm on 3G :) <Xpistos> ? <wrst> :) <wrst> ? <wrst> hey i think cyberanger is on T-Mobile <Xpistos1> What is the difference between XAMPP and WAMPP <wrst> Xpistos1: all these hard questions today! <chris4585> wrst, http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/unity-to-get-overlay-scrollbars.html <chris4585> interesting news, I like it <wrst> chris4585: i tried gnome shell i must say i like unity much better <wrst> that is very interesting, i think i like that <wrst> makes a lot of sense <chris4585> wrst, I'm waiting until they're both in the final stages <chris4585> wrst, I agree completely I can't wait to see it in action <chris4585> Ubuntu seems to be making a whole lot more progress this release <wrst> yeah that looks very cool and freeing up screen realestate, but i worry about dual monitor applications with unity <chris4585> wrst, hrm yeah, I haven't really seen anything addressing dual monitors, that will be interesting <wrst> yeah i'm not for sure how i will like that <vychune> o/ <cyberanger> Xpistos: EDGE, not 4G <cyberanger> who's your carrier, and phone <Xpistos> T-mobile and MyTouch 4G <cyberanger> oh, mytouch, right (not the one I'd grab personally) <Xpistos> it isn't bad <Xpistos> and it is my first smart phone so I wouldn't know any better <wrst> Xpistos: i got a starter phone also i couldn't handle all the power at once i don't beleieve, like cyberanger can handle the power :) <Xpistos> lol <Xpistos> there is a lot to lean <Xpistos> and learn <cyberanger> lol <Xpistos> damnable sausage like appendages of mine. <cyberanger> yeah, I did my homework <Xpistos> at least I will be ready when I get my gtablet or xoom <Xpistos> course it is more difficult to make calls on one of those <wrst> took me forever to get used to actually making a call :) <cyberanger> menu > settings > about phone > mobile network type <cyberanger> Xpistos: ^^ <cyberanger> what do you see there <Xpistos> Son's of bitches it says Edge <cyberanger> wrst: you might want to also try that, lemme know <cyberanger> Xpistos: are you in nashville, or south <Xpistos> south <Xpistos> 38401 - Columbia <Xpistos> so if there was 4g then it would say 4g? <Xpistos> or 3G <Xpistos> etc <Xpistos> ? <wrst> i don't have that option cyberanger <cyberanger> neither, Evolved HSPA or HSPA+ (not sure which) is 4G <wrst> my phone tells me when i'm on 3G or not in the info bar <cyberanger> wrst: I was sorta thinking that, and it might not have any LTE hardware anyhow <Xpistos> right now mine says E <Xpistos> for edge <wrst> no it doesn't 4G will not happen on this phone <wrst> by the time it is available around here i will try to update phones <wrst> but i'm already about as fast as my connection at home <wrst> actually a little faster <cyberanger> Xpistos: HSPA is 3G, it might also say UTMS <Xpistos> I guess I need to see what happens in nashville on sunday <cyberanger> and considering your not even near Nashville, double my distance to chattanooga <cyberanger> I'm not suprised <cyberanger> that your 3G <Xpistos> it doesn't say either of those just E <cyberanger> well, actually, not even 3G (but I wouldn't call it 2.5G <Xpistos> and Edge <cyberanger> the E is EDGE <pace_t_zulu> natty alpha 3 is available <wrst> pace_t_zulu: its looking up <pace_t_zulu> wrst: yea, it's come a long way <wrst> i may download and reinstall <pace_t_zulu> wrst: i like the new touches on the installer <pace_t_zulu> looking more polished every day <wrst> pace_t_zulu: right now its got gnome shell beat in my book but can't say i'm jumping for joy with either really <cyberanger> Xpistos: that menu, those terms, that'll clearly tell you <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: already downloaded :-D <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: me too <cyberanger> and ready with jigdo for the beta and final <pace_t_zulu> desktop and server... i386 and amd64 <wrst> I am downloading now <Xpistos> Mobile Network Type = Edge <cyberanger> it's considered 2.5G <cyberanger> but it's better than the other 2.5G methods <cyberanger> the marketing term that would not be 3G. UTMS or HSPA, or 4G HSPA+ <cyberanger> how's everyone? <Xpistos> Why must every damn discussion in this office go to guns. I swear they do it to piss me off. <cyberanger> xpistos, just don't turn it into show and yell <Xpistos> my opinion of guns is they are for guys with lesser masculinity <cyberanger> not sure how that can piss someone off, well, maybe the gun control isle <vychune> o/ <Xpistos> In any room in any normal house. I will put my knife against their gun any day. <cyberanger> ah, and i can see that <cyberanger> concealed carry though, isn't just for men <cyberanger> but women too <cyberanger> and for one person, has possibly saved her life <cyberanger> there's a reason i say last resort <vychune> what did i walk into? #ubuntu-us-tn 2011-03-04 <pace_t_zulu_> cyberanger: ping <pace_t_zulu_> wrst: ping <pace_t_zulu> hey netritious <pace_t_zulu> nice timing
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