#ubuntu-doc 2005-06-01 <mdke> aha <mdke> i was just gonna say... <mdke> where is that dude <jsgotangco> dude <jsgotangco> its 6am <mdke> wakey wakey <jsgotangco> what an unholy hour <Burgundavia> indeed, th unholy hour of 3pm <mdke> Burgundavia, been to sleep yet? <Burgundavia> nope <jsgotangco> heck i woke up at 5:30 <Burgundavia> almos falliing asleep now <mdke> you can make it through t 48 hrs <Burgundavia> no I can't <Burgundavia> I have done 3 days before <Burgundavia> with2 hours of sleep <mdke> *laughs* <jsgotangco> wtf unofficial guide for ppc <mdke> .ubuntuguide.org <jsgotangco> bad <mdke> i haven't looked at it? <mdke> what's wrong with it <jsgotangco> technically none <jsgotangco> its a free world <mdke> philosophically? <jsgotangco> if you want consistency, you won't want it righ <mdke> jsgotangco, its only natural that these things will go on outside the documentation team as long as the most popular documentation resource remains outside our tree :/ <mdke> we REALLY need to get ubuntuguide being worked on in docbook directly for the future <mdke> i saw a html2docbook convertion spec that might help, but it is pointless if we are going to port it (again) and then find that ubuntuguide keeps getting worked on outside our docbook repo <jsgotangco> oh boy im beginning to like opera <Burgundavia> if only it was free <Burgundavia> I used it from version 3 to version 6 <mdke> Burgundavia, the guide you mean? <Burgundavia> oh boy im beginning to like opera <Burgundavia> ^^ <mdke> oh the browser <mdke> i thought jsgotangco was getting into singing <jsgotangco> the google ad bar aint that bad (its only text) * jsgotangco slaps mdke <mdke> sorry <jsgotangco> heh <mdke> *puts back on computer hat* <jsgotangco> you don't want to see me doing an aria <mdke> true <jsgotangco> and im not fat enough yet <mdke> yet? ;) <jsgotangco> hah <jsgotangco> overweight though, but not fat <jsgotangco> i did get to watch pavarotti and bocelli when they toured here <mdke> hmm <mdke> bocelli doesn't count as opera ;) <jsgotangco> he's kinda pop'ish * mdke nods <jsgotangco> its funny when he went here, women were screaming (including my wife) <mdke> he plays the blind card <jsgotangco> oh man i still feel so sleepy yet i have an appointment in an hour <mdke> [23:53:56] opi the main docs of Ubuntu (ubuntuguide and CoC) are translated <jsgotangco> to polish? <mdke> not sure what language <jsgotangco> i think opi is polish <mdke> it was the "main docs of Ubuntu" bit that got my attention <jsgotangco> lets grab him later <mdke> jsgotangco, i think it is more a reflection on the docs than on him <mdke> he's right <mdke> :( <jsgotangco> i was reading stuff a few hours ago before i slept <jsgotangco> i didnt know there was a bugzilla category for documentation <jsgotangco> heh <mdke> yeah it got assigned to enrico <jsgotangco> kassetra, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences for starters :D <mkde> welcome kassetra <kassetra> thank you :) <kassetra> ok. <kassetra> have you guys done conferences before? * mkde shakes head <kassetra> ok, well, I've done a bunch. :) <mkde> cool <kassetra> Linux ones, Corporate ones, Tech ones, Design ones, etc. :) <mkde> i was just speaking for me <mkde> i'm sure others have <jsgotangco> i used to work in the semicon industry we did conferences before <jsgotangco> i still speak at some technical conferences though <kassetra> :) I've also done the booth design, development, and setup before too. :) <jsgotangco> hehe i did that too, but it was more a DIY approach instead of best practices <kassetra> LOL <kassetra> Sometimes, that leads to really fun stuff. :) <jsgotangco> yeah that's how i met my wife <kassetra> WAHAHAHAHAHA <jsgotangco> we were booth neighbors then <mkde> no way <mkde> awesome <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> she used to be in a 3M booth <kassetra> LOL <jiyuu0> mdke, ubuntu.xpm.gz is just a sample <jiyuu0> it's the desktop of hoary <jiyuu0> hehe <mkde> jiyuu0, oh i c, i assumed it was a splash screen <jiyuu0> grub image <mkde> yeah <mkde> sorry <mkde> that's what i mean <mkde> grrrr <mkde> its too late <jiyuu0> :) <jiyuu0> now there's a powerpc <jiyuu0> still waiting for someone to volunteer for amd64 <mkde> jiyuu0, we must talk about working in docbook for future releases <mkde> jiyuu0, maybe tomorrow when i've slept <jsgotangco> we can start up now if you want we're in the same timezone anyway <jiyuu0> hehe <jiyuu0> it's 9:10am here <jsgotangco> same here <jsgotangco> (Manila) <mkde> there are many advantages <jiyuu0> Malaysia <mkde> mainly in terms of publishing the guide <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, i'll be in KL on the 27th of June <mkde> and in terms of translating it <mkde> but I really have to sleep <jiyuu0> jsgotangco, business trip <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, yeah, maybe we can meet up and talk <mkde> night y'all <jsgotangco> mkde, night <kassetra> night! :) <jiyuu0> mkde, night :) <jiyuu0> jsgotangco, sure... drop me a mail :) <jiyuu0> i bring u go eat some malaysia food <jsgotangco> heh i'd like some mee goreng * jsgotangco usually goes to penang * jiyuu0 dont' really like mee goreng <jsgotangco> i haven't really tried the food in KL <jiyuu0> then u should either try the curry here or some chinese food <jsgotangco> coconut milk-based food makes my tummy upset but i'll live <jsgotangco> :) <jiyuu0> hehe <jiyuu0> so tried durian food before? <jsgotangco> yeah the tastes like heaven but smells like hell <jiyuu0> i like it a lot... <jiyuu0> seems like it's season is coming... <jiyuu0> here, have durian buffet too <jiyuu0> eat all u can in 45minutes <jsgotangco> i like the tamarind stuff from thailand <jsgotangco> you mean durian as cooked meal or just the fruit? <jiyuu0> not sure bout the tamarind stuff <jiyuu0> durian as fruit <jiyuu0> i haven eat cooked durian before <jsgotangco> are there hawker stands in KL too? <jiyuu0> a lot <jiyuu0> PJ even more <jsgotangco> ahh must be heaven <jiyuu0> i think KL/PJ is a good place to find food <jsgotangco> how much is a ringgit now to a us dollar? <jiyuu0> USD1.00 = RM3.80 <jsgotangco> hmm it didnt change much <jsgotangco> is dvd/vcd piracy still rampant? <jiyuu0> government is controlleing the currency <jsgotangco> ahh <jiyuu0> yes :) <jiyuu0> u can buy movies / software very very very easily <jsgotangco> i remember buying like 50 DVDs for less than a US$ each <jsgotangco> at 3am <jiyuu0> there's a place called lowyat in kl... <jsgotangco> heh <jiyuu0> that's the pirated heaven <jiyuu0> DVD9 movies at RM9 <jiyuu0> DVD5 - 3 for RM10 <jsgotangco> i don't think it'll stop its so rampant in SE Asia <jsgotangco> its already a way of life <jiyuu0> DVD software/games = RM15 <jiyuu0> CD software = RM3 <jiyuu0> no way they can stop <jiyuu0> government tried <jiyuu0> but failed <jsgotangco> yeah its just impossible at the moment <jiyuu0> but it's weird... when they say piracy control... <jiyuu0> then this lowyat place (which is a building) <jsgotangco> heh <jiyuu0> ppl actually setup shop just to sell pirated stuff <jiyuu0> if they want to stop... why not just closed all those shop <jiyuu0> not so difficult <jsgotangco> is that like a building where there are stalls all over selling the same thing <jiyuu0> u read on news... but see no action on the pirated heaven place <jiyuu0> and it's a very common place <jsgotangco> isn't the BSA active there? <jiyuu0> hardly see action <jsgotangco> i can understand the video game piracy <jiyuu0> bsa will only advertise on tv and radio... just to freek ppl out <jsgotangco> the console makers won't even launch in SE Asia (except singapre) <jiyuu0> true... i think xbox is not launched here <jsgotangco> that's why MMORPGs from Korea are so popular * jiyuu0 got the xbox though :) <jsgotangco> modded of course <jiyuu0> ic <jiyuu0> well... when i'm back using windows... frankly... can't leave withouth piracy <jiyuu0> it's so cheap to test/use software at home <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> its so accessible you can't ignore it <jiyuu0> lucky now on open source... so hardly use pirated stuff <jsgotangco> i've seen game shops sell only pirated games <jiyuu0> true :) <jiyuu0> especially the dvd9 movies <jsgotangco> yeah <jiyuu0> original = between RM 39 to RM 200 <jiyuu0> pirated = RM 9 <jiyuu0> so much different <jsgotangco> the weird thing is that the quality is so good for a pirated material <jiyuu0> true :) <jiyuu0> they make their own compilation <jiyuu0> even the cd cover is nice <jsgotangco> yeah i've seen 2-in-1 dvd9 movies <jiyuu0> 2 in 1 dvd 9 is actually 2 dvd5 in it <jsgotangco> when i went to hong kong a while back, it was video game heaven <jiyuu0> oh... hongkong also piracy heaven? <jsgotangco> very <jsgotangco> (with regards to video games though) <jsgotangco> i think a lot of the mod chips are developed there <jsgotangco> as well as in taiwan <jiyuu0> ic ic... <jsgotangco> not so much on movies, they have a lot of stuff in mandarin <jiyuu0> so how bout manila? <jsgotangco> just like in KL i guess, but KL is much more urban <jsgotangco> in terms of piracy we have our moments <jsgotangco> heh <jsgotangco> movie piracy is so big <jsgotangco> as well as software <jsgotangco> BSA isnt doing anything either <jsgotangco> i think most of the stuff come from the backdoor, down south going to sabah <jiyuu0> true... they seems to be like drama ppl <jsgotangco> while price of oil is still high, the only price that doesn't go up here are pirated stuff <jsgotangco> (not to mention its tax free as well) <jiyuu0> true :) <jiyuu0> the price of piracy always goes lower and lower * jiyuu0 gotta go grab some breakfast... brb :) <easthero> so less people <easthero> -_- <easthero> hi,all <EricNeon> hello <jsgotangco> hello <jsgotangco> what can we do for you <jsgotangco> EricNeon, hi its been a while how have you been <EricNeon> ^ <easthero> we have translation the ubuntuguide to chinese <EricNeon> easthero had translated ubuntuguide into chinese <EricNeon> jsgotangco, you can find craighoward@example.net <jsgotangco> hmmm ubuntuguide is jiyuu0's personal work its not part of the ubuntu-doc work (at the moment though) <jsgotangco> sure <easthero> EricNeon, the major translator is youI can only be called maintainer <EricNeon> oh, <jsgotangco> wow this thing is huge <EricNeon> I will do it go on next week while I have time <easthero> the warty guide is update still <jsgotangco> have you guys talked to smurfix about your LoCo team? * jsgotangco should brush up his mandarin again soon <EricNeon> oh,thank you <EricNeon> I will <jsgotangco> if you need help on that, just tell me so <EricNeon> thx, <easthero> jsgotangco, www.ubuntuguide.org is a unoffical group? <jsgotangco> yes its an unofficial guide at the moment, but jiyuu0, the author is willing to make it an official document <easthero> oh <EricNeon> easthero,yes <jsgotangco> speaking of jiyuu0 <EricNeon> jiyuu0, ~ <easthero> it should be offical <easthero> jiyuu0, hi <jsgotangco> easthero, it will be but we have to make some changes <jiyuu0> easthero, heloo <EricNeon> hi jiyuu0,we are talking about translate the document of yours <EricNeon> easthero and me are come from chinese <jiyuu0> EricNeon, there's a tw version already <jiyuu0> tw.ubuntuguide.org <EricNeon> we had translated ubuntuguide inito chinese , * easthero is away: away for a monment <EricNeon> there's a CN version now <jiyuu0> EricNeon, where? <EricNeon> wiki.ubuntu.org.cn <jiyuu0> i can create cn.ubuntuguide.org for u <EricNeon> heh ,thank you <jiyuu0> can u send me the index.html to my email <jiyuu0> i will reply back with the account info shortly :) <jiyuu0> craighoward@example.net <EricNeon> ok <EricNeon> http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/index.php/Hoarystarterguide/document_view <froud> African Greetings <jsgotangco> hi froud <froud> hi <froud> why does it seem like your ptch reverses all the things I did last night? <jsgotangco> no there was a conflict today <froud> OK so how did you resolve the conflict <jsgotangco> i used your version <jsgotangco> 1037 i think <froud> He he:-) something went wrong <jsgotangco> i know <froud> ya its ok I will fix it <jsgotangco> i guess to avoid this again, let me finish the thing first <froud> no no hack the source <jsgotangco> i was a bit woozy when i fixed this it was around 6:30am <froud> just remember work small commit often <froud> before you start work svn up <froud> and before you commit do it again <jsgotangco> if i svn up itll say theres a conflict <froud> that way you will see the problems <froud> yes, but then you can resolve it <jsgotangco> well yes (i guess i wasn't that attentive this morning) <froud> are you using kdiff3 <jsgotangco> im not in kubuntu anymore <froud> ok ok :-) <jsgotangco> konqueror just keeps on crashing <froud> so you know on ubuntu <froud> Hmm, I have not had that problem <froud> I had some other problems <froud> its a first release so these things are to be expected <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> anyway i just discovered how great bluefish is for a free docbook editor <jsgotangco> its not that smart though <froud> yeah it work well, perhaps speak to te dev team and they can make it xml smart <jsgotangco> are you going to fix the file? <froud> yeah, just taking a look at it <froud> jsgotangco: do you remember what change you actually makde <jsgotangco> froud, just some very minor spell checks and removed some lines on the introduction which you also did <jsgotangco> i played around with warning tags as well nothing major really <jsgotangco> i can always put them back <froud> do an svn up and see if you get an update now <jsgotangco> nope <jsgotangco> theres no update yet <froud> no I just need to merge <froud> ok it is now at r1039 I have merge r1037 back to head <froud> its ard for me to see the exact changes you made in 1038 <froud> as that r contains many chnages of mine from 10.37 <jsgotangco> hmmm <froud> can you svn up <jsgotangco> you have 2 working copies? <froud> no <froud> one <froud> why <jsgotangco> was wondering how you have the old revisions <froud> Oh, no that is why we work in svn <froud> here is the command I used <froud> svn merge -r 1038:1037 https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kde/kquickguide/C/kquickguide.xml <froud> U kquickguide.xml <froud> successfully (0) <froud> I did a reverse merge to bring back my r and then committe dthat back to head <froud> you could also do it <froud> have you read svn book? <jsgotangco> when i have time i read <jsgotangco> but not that in-depth lately * froud goes to find the section that explains <froud> Just read this bit <froud> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/svn-book.html#svn-ch-4-sect-4.2 <jsgotangco> svn has the old revisions on file? <froud> just the patches <froud> pretty cool stuff hey :-) <jsgotangco> hmm <jsgotangco> interesting <jsgotangco> oh right just the patches, just like the one sent in ubuntu-commit <froud> yeah, and svn knows how to bring it together as a single file <froud> svn is very powerful <froud> we dont yet use even a 10% of its power <jsgotangco> let me see the diff on that particular file <froud> but there are somethings I dont think it is good for, like kernel hacking <froud> you can diff between 1039 and 1037 <froud> you can diff between 1039 and 1038 <jsgotangco> i shouldnt rely that much on esvn <froud> no esvn has all the features of the svn client <froud> but many of the features you may not see or understand the use of <jsgotangco> well i shouldnt do the gui without knowing what the commands mean <jsgotangco> but most of the basic stuff ive already covered <froud> to use svn client or esvn you should know the environment and its possabilities. <froud> you can also do commands in esvn <froud> you see the log window <jsgotangco> yeah just at the bottom <jsgotangco> thats what i use <froud> yeah, that is the same working in a shell <froud> so you can type commands directly into esvn <jsgotangco> yeah * mdke rubs eyes in disbelief <mdke> ugh <jsgotangco> im trying to absorb this as much as i can <froud> and why does mdke say ugh <jsgotangco> just in case *knocks on wood* you decide to go further <mdke> froud, 5 hours sleep is not enough <froud> jsgotangco: we all make errors, main thing is you learn form them. Even I have made some pretty stupid mistakes * froud agrees <jsgotangco> i still feel sleepy <jsgotangco> i woke up at 5 just to attend the CC meeting <froud> I could kick myself sometimes at the stupid stuff I do <jsgotangco> and its only 2:30PM ugghh <froud> he he <froud> what is the CC meeting <jsgotangco> community council <jsgotangco> you know <mdke> <-- shower <froud> Oh right, what did they have to say <jsgotangco> oh admitting new members for what its worth <jsgotangco> froud, about that artwork and stuff <froud> Ok yeah I did not get to it yesterday <jsgotangco> its ok <jsgotangco> we were talking about it earlier today <jsgotangco> you had a booth in linuxworld right? <jsgotangco> jeeezz i'm beginning to like docbook more <froud> yes <froud> I did <froud> why <jsgotangco> was wondering of booth sizes are standard anywhere you go <froud> no they are not * froud must do the school run brb * mdke has to go to class <mdke> double ugh * jsgotangco has to attend this boring meeting ugh <easthero> jiyuu0, Are you Malaysian? <jsgotangco> yes he is <jiyuu0> easthero, yes :) <easthero> wow <jsgotangco> yah asian pride rock on <jsgotangco> heh <jiyuu0> cool :) <easthero> :D <easthero> oneleaf, :D <oneleaf> <oneleaf> :) <oneleaf> hello jiyuu0 <jiyuu0> oneleaf, hello :) <easthero> jiyuu0, oneleaf is the maintainer of ubuntu.org.cn <oneleaf> I already translation it to Chinese <jiyuu0> cool... <oneleaf> :) <jiyuu0> can u send it to me... i'll creat cn.ubuntuguide.org for u <oneleaf> http://www.ubuntu.org.cn/hoarystarterguide/document_view <oneleaf> ok <oneleaf> thanks <jiyuu0> oneleaf, could u follow the css and images in ubuntuguide.org <jiyuu0> e.g. <jiyuu0> http://nl.ubuntuguide.org/ <jiyuu0> i'll create a login for u... so in future u can maintain it there <oneleaf> ok <jiyuu0> just drop me a mail :) <jiyuu0> craighoward@example.net <oneleaf> ok <oneleaf> my mail craighoward@example.net <easthero> gmail so popular <oneleaf> y <jsgotangco> well its fast and its free <jsgotangco> you can even do POP <jsgotangco> bye bye * cafuego_ wibbles <Burgundavia> hello <Burgundavia> just had a few questions about your bot <Burgundavia> firstly, thanks for running it * cafuego_ nods <Burgundavia> I was just wondering what kind of info it was handing out, etc. <cafuego_> well, running it pending approval from ops <Burgundavia> sure <Burgundavia> not a big deal <cafuego_> it fetches and indexes the Packages.gz and COntents.gz files from warty/hoary/breezy i386... so you can interrogate packages. <Burgundavia> ok <Burgundavia> cool <cafuego_> apart from that it's just an infobot, so it outputs whatever you put in. <novaflare> you could program it with the faq easly enough <novaflare> just take alot of time to get the triggers and responses done <cafuego_> I expect so (well, someone who knew actual perl, as opposed to mock perl) <Burgundavia> ok, when you start doing that, would you mind chatting with the doc team beforehand? <cafuego_> No worries <Burgundavia> cheers <Burgundavia> then we can sort of control the quality <cafuego_> i'll need to see first how running it goes; I've had a scary amount of portscans since starting the bot <heh> <cafuego_> Awright, my wife wants her laptop back. See youse later :-) <Burgundavia> ok <jiyuu0> Burgundavia, can u view this page? <jiyuu0> http://jiyuu0.homelinux.org:7979 <jiyuu0> i'm testing streaming media server <Burgundavia> yep <jiyuu0> Burgundavia, can it stream audio? <mkde> hi dudes <jiyuu0> http://jiyuu0.homelinux.org:7979/Richard%20Marx%20-%20Ready%20To%20Fly.mp3.m3u <jiyuu0> mkde, hello :) <mkde> hiya <mkde> jiyuu0, did you and jscotango talk at all about ubuntuguide and docbook? <jiyuu0> mkde, nope <jiyuu0> mkde = mdke ? <mkde> yeah <jiyuu0> can u help me test something? <mkde> sure <jiyuu0> http://jiyuu0.homelinux.org:7979/Richard%20Marx%20-%20Ready%20To%20Fly.mp3.m3u <jiyuu0> download this play list <mkde> except that <jiyuu0> and try can it or not? <jiyuu0> ic <mkde> fraid not <mkde> no soundcard/mediaplayer on this pc <jiyuu0> ic... <mkde> i'm on a stupid windows computer at my college <jiyuu0> it's ok :) <mkde> in the library ;) <jiyuu0> ic... <Seveas> jiyuu0, i hear music from that link :) <Seveas> it skips a lot though... <jiyuu0> cool... and u can still connect to irc .. not bad <jiyuu0> Seveas, thanks :) <jiyuu0> my line here is bad <mkde> jiyuu0, i'm on mirc <jiyuu0> but if it can connect and streams... means it's wopking :) <Seveas> indeed :) <jiyuu0> mirc = windows <jiyuu0> Seveas, thanks :) <jiyuu0> ok... just added <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuguide.org/#streamingmediaserver <mkde> i use gnump3d for streaming audio, its awesome <jiyuu0> it can stream video too :) <mkde> cool <mkde> anyway docbook <mkde> the advantages would be immense <mkde> docbook is very good for porting: it can be easily converted to html, pdf, everything. <mkde> also, we could publish the guide in ubuntu local help <mkde> also, we can open the guide for editing to increase its quality <mkde> also, we can translate the guide easily via rosetta <mkde> also, we can ensure that the guide is ready for release time <mkde> jiyuu0, what are your thoughts on this? <jiyuu0> true... and it will be everybody's work <mkde> jiyuu0, is that good or bad? <mkde> from your point of view <jiyuu0> but... it would be hard for me to modify it based on my style <mkde> jiyuu0, what do you mean? <mkde> hey the channel is big today <jiyuu0> i'm workin on this proj soon <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=36614&highlight=ubuntu+handbook <jiyuu0> have a dead line actually <mkde> jiyuu0, what are your reasons for working outside the documentation team on this stuff? <jiyuu0> i have a open source club going on and i'm using it for my material <jiyuu0> workshops and stuff <jiyuu0> the add-on-cd purpose is because during training... there's no way i can ask 30 students to apt-get at same time <jiyuu0> and that's how the add-on-cd was born <mkde> right <jiyuu0> initially when i started the ubuntuguide... it was my reference <jiyuu0> somehow release to share it... <jiyuu0> then it grew and grew and grew <mkde> but you understand that it is the role of the documentation team to try and produce good collective documentation for Ubuntu, using all of the resources possible, and that where things are produced outside the team, it makes this job quite a lot harder <mkde> the guy who started that thread has essentially asked the same question that the docteam has been trying to address for months <mkde> we want to draw on all the excellent material and try and organise it so that it is accessible to all <mkde> in a simple and clear way <jiyuu0> i understand <jiyuu0> but just not sure how it's going to work <jiyuu0> is ti <jiyuu0> convert the guide <jiyuu0> then public as open <jiyuu0> and others can ammend <mkde> well it would be essential that the document be open source yes <mkde> but in the repository only certain people have upload access <mkde> in practice generally the documents are only worked on by one or two people <mkde> we also are trying to find a way to use the material contained in the wiki <mkde> jiyuu0, what would be the disadvantages from your point of view? <jiyuu0> i guess it's the feeling of losing control over it <jiyuu0> as the main reason it's close (but available online) is because it's cathered to my own preference/reference. <mkde> jiyuu0, here's my opinion <mkde> jiyuu0, the ubuntuguide has such a massive following that essentially it has become the major piece of documentation about Ubuntu <mkde> jiyuu0, for this reason, I believe it is important that it is opensource <mkde> brb <mkde> ok back <mkde> so i was saying <mkde> when a guide assumes that great an audience, its important that the quality is maintained carefully <mkde> also I believe that it is a great guide so should be brought to the ubuntu local help as well as those who use the internet <mkde> but these are simply my opinions <mkde> jiyuu0 you're the author and its your decision <jiyuu0> gimme some time to think bout it... my rush now is the Training Material + Coursebook for Ubuntu <mkde> jiyuu0, ok, let us know. If you decide to open it up, it will take a bit of time to port it <_froud> jiyuu0: why dont you just work with us. We have discussed with you on this before. We welcome you and support you but your content is not free and open <jiyuu0> gimme some time <mkde> jiyuu0, *nods* <jiyuu0> thanks :) <froud> jiyuu0: I need to understand, some weeks ago we discusse dthis with you <froud> back then you also said give time <venda> African Greetings - today is Africa Day <venda> I am an African <venda> somebody up for working on the network install document <venda> it can be found in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/instalguide/C <venda> it is a rough dump and transform to docbook from the original authors web site <venda> need to be reviewed and written in a way that can fit in the main generic install guide <venda> any takers on the channel <jjesse> didn't froud send something in the mailing list that he was working on it? <mdke> that is froud <mdke> ;) <mdke> venda = froud <jjesse> oh sorry didn't know that <jjesse> * learned something new today <mdke> ;) <mdke> it is a new nick <jjesse> grin <jjesse> where there any takers on it? if not i can try and invest sometime tonight <jjesse> don't know how much time i will have wife has talked me into getting a dog and we are picking it up tonight <mdke> *grins* <mdke> awesome <jjesse> just a note, you should set your webfilter to block pet adoption places :) <abelli> ciao <mdke> ola <venda> ala cool <venda> making it, I think <venda> mdke: what do you think we should do with all the samples <mdke> you mean the <pre> stuff? <venda> Hmm the links to text files <mdke> erm <venda> should be link to them <mdke> i haven't seen em <jjesse> alrighty have a good night, i'll try to look at hte installguide if i have a chance <venda> some of the OK, but some are just part of the output a user will see on command <venda> like dpkg.list <mdke> ok i see em <mdke> hmm <mdke> no idea <venda> its a trade off <venda> if we keep them then we must update them <mdke> update them? <venda> if we dont then will it impact the reader <mdke> hmmm <venda> well some may change from time-to-time <mdke> oh yeah <mdke> we should keep em imo <venda> this means we have to track them <mdke> is there an easy way to do it from a technical point of view? <venda> anything is possible its just needs to be programmed :-) <mdke> hmm <mdke> perhaps they don't add a huge amount <venda> maybe we need to decide on a case-by-case basis <venda> if sample is of a command output then the user will see it on screen <mdke> shall we leave the decision til later? <venda> take dpkg.list for example <venda> it could be different for each computer <venda> yes we can <venda> I can also just inlcude the files in the body of the document on processing <venda> that way they stay as external files, but when we process the content will be expanded into the body of the document <venda> I would like to close up as many issues as I can so that others can get at the doucment and hack parts they want <venda> I would like this baby up asap <venda> I will do the kubuntu stuff, since I think I am the only person using Kubuntu <venda> plan on Riddle putting it up on kubuntu.org <mdke> cool <mdke> Be BaCk LaTeR <mdke> watching the last stages of the european soccer cup final <venda> 3 3 mate <venda> bet its a shootout <venda> 1984 all over again <mdke> yep shootout <venda> :-) Liverpool wins <mdke> you think? <venda> what a question <venda> ACM are hopeless a penalty shootout <venda> well here goes lets see <venda> oh nooooo <mdke> ouch <mdke> worst penalty ever <venda> imagine how bad he feels now <mdke> he's won a few world cups tho <venda> 1 0 <mdke> he'll be ok <venda> we hope <venda> he looks calm <mdke> omg <venda> oh nooo <mdke> pirlo! <mdke> that keeper is weird <mdke> but it seems to pay off <venda> go liverpool <mdke> 2-1 ;) <venda> argh!!!!! <venda> I cant stand it <venda> my wife is backing aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacm <mdke> *laughs* <mdke> my girlfriend is too <venda> 2 2 <venda> pray <mdke> yes <venda> yahhhh! <mdke> that is incredible <venda> yes yesy <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> yes <mdke> my god <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> yes <mdke> 3-0 down at half time and they've won it <venda> yes <venda> yes <venda> brilliant <mdke> they came 5th in the english league this year... <venda> now you want to be on the wirral <venda> people will be pissed drunk until early morn <mdke> all the english fans have got the belly's out <venda> thats my lot for tonight, not quite where I wanted it but its going strong <venda> good night #ubuntu-doc 2005-06-02 * easthero is away: ZZzzzz <jsgotangco> top of the morning :) <jsgotangco> wow that nokia 770 tablet sure looks sweet <Burgundavia> yes <easthero> jiyuu0, heloo <jsgotangco> hmm would it be possible to encrypt an email message even without a proper digital signature? <robitaille> you could encrypt+compress the message using "zip -e" and attach the resulting zip file to the e-mail. But the recipient would need the password you used to decrypt it. zip is probably not the most secure form of encryption <jsgotangco> enrico, hi <enrico> hi <mdke> morning all <Burgundavia> salut <jsgotangco> hey <jsgotangco> brb * froud burbs into the channel <Kinnison> Morning <mpt> morning Kinnison <venda> evening <jjesse> hello venda <venda> hi jjesse what new? <jjesse> not much, spent some time looking over the network install guide last night <venda> how di dit go <jjesse> looked good <venda> think you can work it into the instalguide? <jjesse> didn't finish readin it but i can sure work on it <venda> OK, I think it should go at then of the install guide, but we need to work it into the top of the dock <venda> at the end <venda> it's in article format at present, so guess you will need to change the semantics when you move it into the instalguide <jjesse> ok i might need some help on this as i haven't done really big work before but i'll learn my way through <jjesse> :) <venda> jjesse: can you commit often on it when you start working, so I can work with you on it <venda> you have commit access yes? <jjesse> no i don't have commit access <jjesse> which is why i just sent the last .diff of the kquickguide <venda> please send your pgp keys to elmo <jjesse> ok will do <venda> let's get you commit <venda> I will let enrico know so he can arrange that elmo will do it for you. <jjesse> alrighty where do find the information to send to elmo? <venda> jjesse: you need to create a pgp key <jjesse> i did we worked on that awhile ago and i sent it a keyserver <venda> ok so you should have the public key on your system <venda> where did you store it <venda> send the public key to elmo <jjesse> ok <venda> if you work small and commit often I can help you if there are problems <jjesse> ok i'll get that taken care of tonight when i get home from work <venda> good night #ubuntu-doc 2005-06-03 <jsgotangco> morning <Burgundavia> salut <jiyuu0> just created this thread <jiyuu0> UbuntuGuide Learning Material for Beginners <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=188692 <jsgotangco> ummm <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, it would be great if you can talk to jdub about this <jsgotangco> we had a BOF about training materials <jiyuu0> BOF? <jsgotangco> Birds of a Feather <jsgotangco> let me get that BOF session <jiyuu0> i have to start this quick as i'm organizing the workshop of such by end of june <jsgotangco> yes, there's no problem with that <jiyuu0> and the material should finish by mid june <jiyuu0> am working on this full time :) <jsgotangco> but wouldn't it be nice if your training materials would become official materials just in case? <jsgotangco> yes i understand that <jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/CertificationAndTraining <jiyuu0> making it official would be nice <jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TrainingLiveCd <jiyuu0> but have to come out with the first draft * jiyuu0 checking the links * jsgotangco thinks you should join the next developer conference <jsgotangco> you can contribute a lot for sure with regards to community matters <jiyuu0> while waiting for the next meeting/conference <jiyuu0> i'll start the ball rolling first <jsgotangco> yeah go for it <jiyuu0> how's the table of content? <jsgotangco> its great but im no expert in training materials <jiyuu0> me too <jsgotangco> you should consult froud he's the expert on documentation systems <jsgotangco> he's been doing stuff like these in ZA for quite some time <froud> African greetings <jsgotangco> speak of the devil <jiyuu0> yes... he has been asking to open up ubuntuguide.org too :) <jsgotangco> you should <jiyuu0> the devil watchin over us... <jsgotangco> it has so much potential <jiyuu0> yes... the force is strong with this one * jiyuu0 too much starwars <jsgotangco> it would be great if we could meet up if my trip to KL pushes through <jiyuu0> sure.... and i thought is today <jiyuu0> froud, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=188692 <jiyuu0> another guy here in MY is helping out too <jiyuu0> he will be compiling it and puttin into proper english <froud> yes I have seen this thread <jiyuu0> and i'll give him the structure and points <froud> and I wrote http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=188692 <froud> ooops <froud> and I wrote http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/CertificationAndTraining <froud> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/CertificationAndTraining is no smal thing and has to be done very very well <jiyuu0> true <froud> I already started this as a commercial excercise <jiyuu0> mine would be much simplier <froud> I am hapy to colloborate with youon this <froud> providing we meet the terms of the docteam licenses <froud> and the work is done in svn <jiyuu0> can svn be printed as a handbook <froud> yes <froud> PDF <jsgotangco> yes <jiyuu0> ok... i'll make the first draft <jsgotangco> DocBook rules the world <jiyuu0> in word format then we beautify it into svn <froud> use OOo Writer <jiyuu0> oops... hehe <froud> jiyuu0: please send elmo your public pgp key <jsgotangco> sxw <froud> that way we can get you commit access <jiyuu0> i don't have pgp key... never used it b4 <froud> yes <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, create one its easy <froud> first time for everything <jiyuu0> true <jsgotangco> just make sure you keep the key <froud> jiyuu0: I have ported ubuntuguide to docbook it is now in svn <jsgotangco> (someone here accidentally erased his key) <jiyuu0> froud, can u send me ur email... i have another guy who is also workin on this too <froud> craighoward@example.net <jiyuu0> i'm meeting him shortly <jiyuu0> to discuss bout his <jiyuu0> this <froud> Images are drawn in inkscape <jsgotangco> froud, spiffy posters in svn? *grin* * jsgotangco would start cracking his whip soon too <froud> Arhhh yes forgot too busy <froud> jiyuu0: will you work on ubuntuguide in svn <jiyuu0> i'm rushin for this new training thing... <jiyuu0> dead line end of june <jiyuu0> material by mid june <jsgotangco> for your business? <jiyuu0> temporary will not have big changes in ubuntu guide <froud> why june, breezy wont be out until October <froud> pleae make all changes in svn <jiyuu0> jsgotangco, not really... it's a open source training session that i organise for my open source club <froud> jiyuu0: please can you make change in svn, it takes time for us to keep tracking your changes <jiyuu0> u mean the ubuntuguide.org? <jsgotangco> froud, i can help him out we're in the same timezone anyway <froud> yes <jiyuu0> i've created a log file <froud> jiyuu0: why not just do it in svn <froud> once you have commit access you will be able to do it much faster <jsgotangco> yeah <jiyuu0> i have plans for that in the next version (breezy) <froud> great plans are good but do it in svn <jsgotangco> we can move the existing one now with very little effort <froud> jsgotangco: I have moved it <jsgotangco> ahh right <froud> and now I am doing the markup <froud> jiyuu0: will you work in svn? <jiyuu0> not now... i have to work on the training stuff <jiyuu0> nothing major would come up in ubuntuguide.org <froud> no I mean in general when you come to making updates <jiyuu0> all hands tied :( <froud> making them in svn would be easier * jiyuu0 needs extra hands <froud> we are extra hands <jiyuu0> can u update the svn <jiyuu0> and i'll update the .html with proper changelog <froud> jiyuu0: do you understand how open source development works <froud> jiyuu0: no <froud> we are not going to track that <froud> jiyuu0: please understand <froud> I am not going to waste my time if a person is not going to work in a toatlly free and open way <froud> I have better things to do that try to keep track of changes in ubuntuguide.org <froud> change log or no <jiyuu0> i can't work on it right now (no major updates for ubuntuguide.org)... changing the original site to svn would change a lot of things <jsgotangco> froud already moved it you're just going to maintain it in svn <froud> jiyuu0: at some point you do realize that I will just start ignoring you <jsgotangco> svn will track changes for everyone of us <froud> why do you need so much control <jsgotangco> that's why you're supposed to create a gpg key and send it to elmo <jiyuu0> cause i use it to teach other ppl strictly based on it <jiyuu0> and everything works with it <froud> jiyuu0: we want you to join us and work with us, its good for all of us, but there is a limit <froud> jiyuu0: I am not sure you understand the power of FOSS development models or how they work <jiyuu0> and it's difficult for me to keep track of changes other ppl had made <froud> no it is not <froud> we have a mail system for exactly that <froud> jiyuu0: once I have finsihed porting this doc, it will take a life on its own in svn, the community will improve it <froud> you have toput trust in the community it is more powerful that anyone of us <froud> each of us needs to work selflessly <froud> by sharing ideas and giving control to the community you will benefit greatly <froud> at present you seem to be doing great work, but you do not want to lose control <froud> I understand this, but feel that you need to take this leap of faith at some point <froud> trust and work with the community, that is all we ask <froud> at some point we will stop asking you <jsgotangco> froud, this should also apply on the kubuntu and ppc guide that came out <jsgotangco> its getting pretty fragmented <froud> and instead of working together we will be compteing against each other, that is very sad <froud> jsgotangco: yes <jsgotangco> i should talk to the guy who did for kubuntu <froud> I am very concerned about the fragmentation <froud> yes, where is thatURL again <jsgotangco> hmm <jsgotangco> wait let me check the list <jsgotangco> KUDOS or something <froud> jiyuu0: so what do you think, canyou work with us on everything in svn <jsgotangco> http://kudos.berlios.de/ <jiyuu0> froud, really give me some time here... cause it's going to change the way i'm writing <jiyuu0> and maitaining it <froud> jiyuu0: it will give you more time <froud> it will make it easier for you <jsgotangco> Abdullah Ramazanoglu <jiyuu0> u see i've have dead line for the training material... i am going to do it full force <jiyuu0> and it will be based on the ubuntuguide.org and add-on-cd <froud> do it in svn and you will get help <jiyuu0> to change it to svn right now... means burning extra time <froud> do it outside and I am not intersted in helping <froud> time you will make up when you have more hands from the community * froud starts to get tired of this <jsgotangco> let's adjourn this for a while <jsgotangco> we're just going in circles <froud> jiyuu0: do you or do you not want help * jiyuu0 tired of asking for some extra time <froud> jiyuu0: WE ARE OFFERING YOU EXTRA HANDS WE CAN DO MORE TOGETHER, THAT IS HEAPS OF EXTRA TIME <froud> jiyuu0: BUT YOU NEEDS TO COMPROMISE SO WE CAN COLLABORATE <jiyuu0> training material project -> svn from the beginning <jiyuu0> that i can do <froud> jiyuu0: agreed <jiyuu0> but ubuntuguide.org -> svn (shortly) <froud> jiyuu0: I ported 5.04 yesterday <froud> its in svn already <froud> I am just cleaning up the markup <froud> jiyuu0: did you understand what I just said? <froud> 5.04 is in svn as of two days ago <froud> 5.04 is available as docbook xml in svn, all we ask is that if and when you need to do updates that you please do them in svn <froud> jiyuu0: plovs did the port for warty and I have done the port for hoary, this stuff takes time and we dont want to waste our time <jiyuu0> froud, yes... to look into ubuntuguide.org svn needs time... and my time now is at training material <jiyuu0> that's why ubuntuguide.org (svn) will come in shortly <jiyuu0> ubuntuguide.org (svn) means changing the current state of ubuntuguide <jiyuu0> web site have to change too <froud> jiyuu0: in the community there will be changes, its to be expected. <froud> flow with these changes <froud> I think you will find that the changes improve things <jiyuu0> like jsgotangco said... let's adjourn this topic for a while... i need to concentrate on the training materials <froud> jsgotangco: will you contact KUDOS guy <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> as early as possible <jsgotangco> don't want this to happen again <froud> OK, I think we can do FAG Guide as Kubuntu and Ubuntu, what do you think <jsgotangco> kubuntu will be much easier except i know you're traded barbs with this guy before <jsgotangco> FAQ Guide sounds good its already there <jsgotangco> i can whip it up probably a day or two and show it to the kudos guy <froud> jsgotangco: no no, I mean we can do both FAQ Guides in one XML file <jsgotangco> hmmm <jsgotangco> won't that be messy <froud> I already started to profile it as such <jsgotangco> hmm what should i do then <jsgotangco> you can move it to generic <froud> not really, there are many things the same between the distros <froud> it is in generic <froud> :-) <jsgotangco> ohh <jsgotangco> svn up <jsgotangco> ok will look at it later then <froud> <book lang="&language;" id="x01"> <froud> <title> <froud> <phrase os="kde">Kubuntu</phrase> <froud> <phrase id="gnome">Ubuntu</phrase> FAQ Guide</title> <froud> oops I see a bug <jsgotangco> hmmm i should email amu or Riddell sometime <froud> <book lang="&language;" id="x01"> <froud> <title> <froud> <phrase os="kde">Kubuntu</phrase> <froud> <phrase os="gnome">Ubuntu</phrase> FAQ Guide</title> <froud> <bookinfo> <jsgotangco> i still dont know the roadmap <froud> amu and riddle know about it <froud> ;-) <jsgotangco> no no i mean i dont know the roadmap <jsgotangco> i should <jsgotangco> i should email kubuntu-users and ask for help on screenshots <froud> yes, good idea <jsgotangco> im sure i'll get replies <froud> dont know until you try <froud> I suggest you do one or two as examples <froud> that way they have somethng to follow <jsgotangco> yeah but i think we also have conventions on screenshots <jsgotangco> (i still have to read on that) <froud> yes look at code in gnome quick guide <jsgotangco> yeah i was studying that last night <froud> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TakingScreenshots <jsgotangco> yeah that too <froud> cool dude your the best <jsgotangco> that KUDOS thing is huge though <froud> great <froud> no worries <jsgotangco> one question though <jsgotangco> we're in bugzilla <froud> yes <jsgotangco> but enrico is still the contact? <froud> enrico is around <froud> he is still part of the team, just busy with work <jsgotangco> yeah we don't get that much bugs anyway <froud> there was talk about going to malone <froud> I think it may be a good idea <jsgotangco> well main documentation should still be in bugzilla (if i know) <froud> I think Burgundavia wanted to move us to Malone <jsgotangco> i think malone is mostly universer for now <froud> yes, but we can port over to malone <jsgotangco> do we have a roadmap of going out to svn? <froud> what? <jsgotangco> i mean <jsgotangco> are there plans to move us to baz? <jsgotangco> or do we decide to keep svn <froud> there was talk but no plan, I dont think people what to do it <froud> so we just keep in svn <jsgotangco> we should upgrade though <froud> elmo was supposed to upgrade, but hey who knows <froud> for now it does not slow us down <jsgotangco> (but then we don't even utilize 50% of existing features) <froud> that's ok <jsgotangco> for our size, it works at the moment <froud> we use what we use and have room for growth <froud> svn can support many thousands <jsgotangco> we only got like 4 people with active accounts <froud> there are more active accounts, but people not able to commit right now * jsgotangco don't know who the others are <froud> people like trickie <froud> plovs <jsgotangco> yeah but trickie just retired (temporarily) <froud> hornbeck <froud> yes, but that is the nature of FOSS, they will come and go <froud> and come back again <jsgotangco> i sure hope so <jsgotangco> its funny though <jsgotangco> in the contributors list <froud> however, at core you're right, we are 4 people <jsgotangco> documentation has the most number of people <froud> I think it is just because of the wiki <jsgotangco> *tee hee* <jsgotangco> i was thinking though <jsgotangco> with kubuntu <jsgotangco> would it be possible for it to have a splash screen on first boot showing docs <jsgotangco> quickguide for example <froud> dont understand <jsgotangco> ahhh forget about it for now october is a long way <jsgotangco> we'll just hack first <froud> yeah <froud> OK, I must get doing with my day. Keep up the great work on kwickguide <froud> I really like it <froud> think you have done a super job <jsgotangco> thanks it should be finished soon before i jump to another doc <jsgotangco> dont like to work on multiple docs <froud> yeah, once you have it we can upload it to Kubuntu web site <froud> that's ok <froud> you like to focus <jsgotangco> who hosts kubuntu.org? <froud> I understand that <froud> Riddle <jsgotangco> ahhh <jsgotangco> that's weird <froud> why <jsgotangco> but amu contributes heavily <froud> yes, he has an account <jsgotangco> well at least kubuntu is a kde testbed <jsgotangco> hmm <jsgotangco> let me get this straight <jsgotangco> riddell has commit to ubuntu <froud> yes <jsgotangco> but kubuntu stuff it just pulled? <froud> kinda <froud> dont let it worry you <jsgotangco> no it doesnt <froud> good :-) <jsgotangco> im just surprised <froud> Ok, thanks for all the work you are doing, c you later jsgotangco <jsgotangco> ok see you <mvirkkil> is it ok to use text/x-docbook+xml as the mimetype? <mdke> morning all <jsgotangco> mdke, hey <jsgotangco> top of the morning to you <mdke> same to you * jsgotangco cracks his whip <jsgotangco> where's your work? <jsgotangco> heh * mdke points at his exam <jsgotangco> no not that legal crap <jsgotangco> heh <mdke> hey i did a commit last night ;) <jsgotangco> hehe i had too much green tea today <mdke> made you a http://www.kubuntu.org entity <mdke> strange it wasn't there already <mdke> listen i have a couple of questions <mdke> quite simple <jsgotangco> sure <mdke> how do I make a link to another section in the document <jsgotangco> i think its <xref linkend="id"> <jsgotangco> if its outside, you use <ulink url="foo/c">blah</ulink> <mdke> sure * mdke is reading the channel scrollback <jsgotangco> hehehe that's a really nice thread <mdke> wow he got a bit of a tough time <jsgotangco> thats why we need to whip people here <mdke> hmmm <jsgotangco> hmmm? <mdke> no quite the FOSS spirit jsgotangco, whipping people ;) <jsgotangco> baj <jsgotangco> bah <jsgotangco> you just don't want to be whipped <mdke> true <jsgotangco> i wonder if our cd has rawrite or something <jsgotangco> to create a boot disk <mdke> which cd? <jsgotangco> hoary <mdke> ask Kamion <mdke> there is a guy writing some installation tutorials in the wiki <mdke> i keep leaving messages saying "work with us, we are already writing such documents" but he doesn't seem to listen <jsgotangco> yeah it happens <jsgotangco> some people still dont get the concept of FOSS development <mdke> well its filed under the docteam pages <mdke> and i seem to remember that he's posted to the list <mdke> he's just not using work that has already been done <mdke> has mako got back to you about your CoC yet? <abelli> ciao <abelli> Kinnison: ding <mdke> hi abelli <jsgotangco> no why i've already signed my CoC <jsgotangco> did
{'channel': 'ubuntu-doc', 'month': 6}