#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-01 <HazRPG> and... \o/ hurray! <Jora> what did you do? <brobostigon-andr> :) * HazRPG looking forward to a nice hot shower in the morning :D <HazRPG> Jora: Fitted an electric shower all by myself :) <Azelphur> http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/ just hit 0 <Azelphur> we're screwed? :o <BigRedS> Whoop! <BigRedS> That was aimed at HazRPG <BigRedS> not the exhaustion of ip4 <Azelphur> hehe <shauno> so what happens when they run out? everyone stands around looking awkward while nothing actually goes wrong? <BigRedS> Well, there's a huge amount of unused IP addresses <BigRedS> they're just all allocated <Azelphur> shauno: this is just the beginning really, it'll probably be about 5 years before things go back <Azelphur> ISPs will want to take the cheap way out and put everyone behind a NAT as the solution <BigRedS> but that exhaustion doesn't mean people wont get them, that's that just APNIC having passed the entirety of their allocaton on to the next guys <Azelphur> sane people want IPv6 <BigRedS> the next guys still have a bunch of unused IP addresses <Azelphur> indeed * BigRedS is a sane person <shauno> I just can't help think all the recent coverage is counterproductive <BigRedS> problem with ip6 is that there's no financial incentive until ip4 is actually exhausted <BigRedS> shauno: how so? <shauno> a big build up to nothing actually happening makes people think you were panicking over nothing <BigRedS> shauno: The point, I think, is to have the customers aware and so wanting to know what's going on <BigRedS> such that there is some incentive to implement ip6 <BigRedS> if the ISPs could sell on the ip6 capability (even if it is stupid scaremongering), then suddently they have reason to, and might find themselves implementing it <BigRedS> rather than just waiting for people to want it <shauno> yeah, I get that bit. it's just been very poorly explained. I think the worst thing you can do is have the average user treating it as "another y2k" .. end of the world scaremongering leading up to a fizzle <HazRPG> BigRedS: :) <HazRPG> Azelphur: :o! <HazRPG> Azelphur: it says 1% dude... <BigRedS> yeah, but due to expire today <BigRedS> we're only 8 minutes into the day, give them time :) <Azelphur> HazRPG: it says 0(exhausted?) here * BigRedS notes the time. G'night people! <HazRPG> BigRedS: nite dude \o <HazRPG> Azelphur: oh I was looking at the percentage... the actual num of IPv4 says 0 <Azelphur> :) <HazRPG> hurray! <HazRPG> I'm alive! <Azelphur> so lets talk about being ipv6 ready <Azelphur> I feel motivated xD <Azelphur> I have a DD-WRT router and some random adsl modem, can my hardware do it? * HazRPG is tempted to have a shower right now xD <popey> ali1234: I just noticed your farm on the map! Looks great! <shauno> as far as being ready goes, I don't think I'm expecting ntl.ie to make any changes any time soon :/ <shauno> atleast, not positive changes * HazRPG pours himself a glass of morgan spiced & sparks up a cig. <HazRPG> job well done I say :) <HazRPG> only taken... 3hrs xD <Azelphur> wtf, dd-wrt doesn't support ipv6 ootb <Azelphur> unimpressed once again <directhex> i need to buy some good rum <shauno> well, that coulda been more exciting. turns out my router does support ipv6, and ipv6 tunnels. so I setup a he.net tunnel on the router, and it's all happy <brobostigon-andr> :) <HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: why the andr at the end? <HazRPG> shauno: wow, what router do you have? * HazRPG not sure if mine supports IPv6 at all, since it is rather old <brobostigon-andr> HazRPG: it has shortend it from android. <brobostigon-andr> HazRPG: andchat has, I mean. <HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: ah <shauno> HazRPG: I'll get shot for saying this, but a fairly old apple 'airport extreme' <HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: cool, what app you using? <brobostigon-andr> HazRPG: andchat <HazRPG> shauno: wow, apple does routers :o? <HazRPG> shauno: woah, that router seems pretty awesome <HazRPG> shauno: 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands <HazRPG> win! <HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: cool, might have to try that one :) <brobostigon-andr> :) <shauno> yeah. that came in handy last place I lived. saved fighting for channels on 2.4 <shauno> huge downside tho, is that it does't have a web config thingie. some can be done via snmp, but mostly you're stuck with their management app <brobostigon-andr> Good night as <brobostigon-andr> all + <shauno> night brobostigon <brobostigon-andr> Night shauno <HazRPG> shauno: yeah, 5GHz frequencies aren't picked up by a lot of devices either - so makes them more secure, especially when coupled with hiding of the SSID <HazRPG> I hide my SSID of routers, that way only people who know its there, can connect <HazRPG> I set my devices to automatically try to connect, even if the SSID isn't being broadcasted <HazRPG> its just common sense to nope have the SSID being publically broadcasted anyways, saves the waste of packets ever x seconds <shauno> my main use for dual band now is pretty evil. I share it with my neighbours (long story), so they go too overboard (she discovered torrents a few months ago. that wasn't fun), I just turn 2.4 off <HazRPG> heh, yeah I always fear things like that too <HazRPG> when I was in Egypt visiting my mum, I found out that the network was shared in the building >_< <HazRPG> ...and I warned her that having her documents folder shared would be bad in that situation - only takes one person to know what they're doing to access her files <HazRPG> people in her block must have hated me visiting, eating up bandwidth downloading ubuntu and watching lots of videos on YouTube xD <shauno> they don't really need to know what they're doing anymore :/ my macs do a pretty good job of auto-discovering shares on next door's laptops <HazRPG> yeah windows has gone that way too <HazRPG> with the whole "Homegroup" thing <HazRPG> thankfully, shares aren't enabled by default anymore - which is good <HazRPG> always thought it was daft having that on by default <shauno> I think it's pretty nifty. missus did a double-take when she noticed someone else's laptop in the sidebar. so I pointed out hers showed up on mine too <shauno> so atleast people actually notice now <HazRPG> my sneaky trick on windows for stuff like that was setting the domain to a non-default one e.g. "Workgroup" and "MSHOME" were default (depending on home/pro edition) <shauno> I was expecting setting up a tunnel to be more complicated than http://andrewhitchcock.org/?post=323 tho <HazRPG> so I'd put thinkings like "gimmieroot" or an animal name of some description <shauno> very nifty having it on the router instead of my laptop <HazRPG> shauno: heh :P <HazRPG> yeah, like I said windows does it too (even in XP) although you had to actually open up "network places" to see all the computers <HazRPG> I must say, although a lot of Mac's stuff I dislike for my own reason... but one thing I've always loved about them is the fact that they always employ new technologies into their products before the competition <shauno> most people don't do that tho :) herself only noticed because the sidebar's visible from the upload dialogue for youtube <HazRPG> in fact I think a lot of routers still don't give you IPv6 support :/ <HazRPG> ahhh :P <shauno> hah, my phone gets flying colours on test-ipv6.com too now. rock on. <HazRPG> :P * HazRPG wishes mine supported IPv6 <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Improving Diversity At UDS - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/01/improving-diversity-at-uds/ <HazRPG> woot, I might be able to put OpenWrt on my router now :D <directhex> my ipv6 is iffy, but i have voip now <directhex> so i have *some* technology <directhex> not completely past it <HazRPG> SNAT? * HazRPG reading OpenWrt site <directhex> my adroid phone connects me to the company sip server <directhex> so sip calls go to my mobile <HazRPG> nice <shauno> haven't poked at voip for a while. paid a mote of attention while the missus was back in the states, but I realise I just don't use phones that much <shauno> not for talking atleast <HazRPG> heh, over the years I find myself using my phone less and less <shauno> I never used it much in the first place. I never migrated from sharing the landline in the hallway, to actually using my own <shauno> so conversations with friends always were just "where are you .. going to the crown? see ya in a couple of hours. click" <shauno> which is perfect sms territory, not bleed-me-by-the-minute territory <shauno> even work only really use it when we've a 4hr SLA to live up to, so they want the instant feedback that you got the message <directhex> It doesn't have to be like this <directhex> All we need to do is make sure we keep talking <shauno> (I realise you can do that with sms & email too, but "okay" seems much easier) <HazRPG> shauno: Crown? Not a cumbrian are ya? <shauno> sorta * HazRPG realises that there could be crown's in other counties too <HazRPG> just wondered, cos we have a crown here <shauno> I dare say there is, but that's an auspicious guess. I spent that part of my life in barrow <HazRPG> never thought they might be crowns' in other places <HazRPG> ah so the crown you meant was in barrow - yeah that's not where I am xD <shauno> which technically is cumbria, but in a way that's pretty offensive to the rest of the lakes <HazRPG> very true <HazRPG> urgh... why is flashing custom firmware so difficult sometimes :/ <HazRPG> right, need to disable telnet off my router, brb <HazRPG> back <exobuzz> updated ubuntu maverick images for the joggler http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/ <czajkowski> morning <dutchie> morning czajkowski <czajkowski> dutchie: hows you <AlanBell> morning <dutchie> tired <dutchie> might go back to bed now, in true student form <dutchie> how are you, czajkowski? <czajkowski> sleepy <czajkowski> and now my shower wont work <dutchie> :( <danfish> ello ello <dutchie> right <dutchie> this problem sheet did not necessitate the entire morning <dutchie> so i am going to make up for 3.5 hours' sleep now <phonex01> hi anyone there ? <AlanBell> only us chickens <phonex01> i majde an ubuntu copy using remastersys but when i boot it its boot as live CD and i dont have any icon to install . <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings \o/ <DJones> Morning all <czajkowski> brrrrrr soooooo cool <czajkowski> *cold <czajkowski> AlanBell: you about <DJones> Ugh, Why are mornings so early in the day <MooDoo> hello all <AlanBell> czajkowski: I am <czajkowski> AlanBell: dm me a contact number <MooDoo> morning AlanBell czajkowski DJones <cps> Morning peeps :) <DJones> Hi MooDoo cps <cps> hey DJones :) <czajkowski> MooDoo: hiya <MooDoo> czajkowski: laaura isn't that hard to spell is it ;) <kazade> morning all <MooDoo> kazade: morning <Myrtti> ah ha! <bigcalm> Good morning peoples :) <cps> hey kazade and bigcalm :) <daubers> o/ <cps> such a beautiful sunny morning up here in st andrews <andylockran> Morning all <Myrtti> doubletapping in irssi connectbot = alt-a in irssi <cps> morning andylockran :) <andylockran> anyone know how to send the f commands into a nested byobu window? <Myrtti> brilliant <andylockran> I know ctrl+(a*n) send the screen commands <bigcalm> popey: inverted pyramid :) <andylockran> aye, I get it :) <popey> bigcalm: :) <bigcalm> popey: I no longer have a life <popey> hahah <popey> Welcome to my world. <popey> I am sucking in as many people as I can :) * popey notes directhex was on last night <bigcalm> Going to start it away from the one we finished last night * screen-x strains away from popey's vortex <bigcalm> Hovering over water I think <AlanBell> s/sucking in/assimilating/ <directhex> i ransacked bigcalm's house and stole all his stuff <bigcalm> Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! <directhex> found the stash of nude mags under the crafting table. tut tut! <popey> hah * MooDoo must not get sucked into popey and his minecraft world....... <popey> popeydc.dyndns.org <popey> DO IT! <tugrik> lol <screen-x> nooo! <MooDoo> noooooooooooooooo lol <MooDoo> well not at the moment any way ;) <bigcalm> As I lost everything last night (including 40 odd iron bars), I'm starting completely from scratch again * kazade is contemplating downloading Minecraft to his work PC... <popey> it runs in a browser :) <kazade> oh god <kazade> why did you tell me that? <kazade> :) <tugrik> he didn't <tugrik> I didn't see it either kazade, so I'm not tempted either <tugrik> "/clear" is your friend ;) <bigcalm> :'( <bigcalm> It just crashed <bigcalm> Bloody Java <Neoti|work> Hey ho people.... <czajkowski> bah not going to get to london tomorrow so flipping busy ;( <Neoti|work> dont suppose anyone uses Centos with webmin and proFTPd ? or just proftpd in general .... <Neoti|work> i am having problems with it. <kazade> does anyone else get that bug where Minecraft thinks a key is being held down? <bigcalm> Yes <kazade> much as I love Minecraft, I can't help wishing there was a non-Java version :) <directhex> there's a clone <DJones> Heh, the home office is being criticised for spending Â£300K on police.uk website with people suggesting that if they'd used the google maps api it would have been a lot cheaper <dwatkins> DJones: it's also not been working all morning due to being mentioned on the radio <DJones> dwatkins: I noticed that, every address I try doesn't exist <dwatkins> I wonder if they took it offline because they exceeded their ISP bandwidth allowance, DJones. <DJones> or maybe there's just no recorded crime <screen-x> DJones: there is no crime <dwatkins> I know someone who works for the Met on their network side, he said it's a full-time job maintaining their firewalls, and that's just for the London constabularies. <dwatkins> There's plenty of people attempting to steal data of the police, clearly none of them are succeeding. <popey> kazade: http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/news/ <DJones> I'm not too sure about the benefit of the site, yes, you can look up an address to see if its a high crime area before you buy a house etc there, but does it also give criminals a target area, Oh, there's lots of burglaries in that area - They must have something worth stealing <shauno> or nothing left <popey> or a police problem <shauno> I've never lived in a town without knowing what parts of town the money lived in (and didn't live in). this won't be news to that kinda person <directhex> popey, open source clone of popular game? how original! <popey> :) <screen-x> I reckon streetview is probably more useful to potential burglars <shauno> I just find it a little amusing that nerds are worried about open information ;) <popey> they are? <dwatkins> DJones: I gather rightmove's website has allowed you to look up this data for a while now, directly with a SQL client. <DJones> dwatkins: Didn't know that, although saying that I've not been looking to move houses lately <dwatkins> DJones: a friend of mine selected his house using a SQL query based on distance from the station, crime rates, insurance rates etc. <DJones> :) <Laney> that must have been one hell of an sql query <dwatkins> indeed, Laney <screen-x> dwatkins: linky? <dwatkins> screen-x: to what, sorry? <screen-x> rightmove query interface :) <dwatkins> I'm just saying what I was told, screen-x <screen-x> ok <dwatkins> old-skool, without URLs to back-uop my statements. * screen-x would like to add some automation to the house selection process <dwatkins> screen-x: I imagine you could try just pointing your client at their site to see if you can connect, I don't know if things have changed since about 6 years ago, though. <gord> must be the first of the month, time for my mailing lists to send that "you are still signed up!" message to me a thousand times <bigcalm> popey: have you increased the render time for the maps? <popey> dunno why it didnt generate <popey> running manually now <popey> might be OOMing <bigcalm> K <Laney> gord: http://paste.debian.net/106205/ :-) <gord> paste.debian.net appears to be the slowest thing on the planet <popey> odd bigcalm , night just updated fine <Laney> wget -O /dev/null http://paste.debian.net/106205/ 0.01s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 0.903 total <bigcalm> popey: is the date wrong on your server? <popey> no, why? <popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/ <popey> see date stamp <bigcalm> Yes, was the map created 40 mins ago? <popey> yes <bigcalm> Ok then <popey> night generates first, then day <popey> note that night has updated <bigcalm> That's why there's only 1 block showing for my new work :) <bigcalm> When is the next generation? <popey> its running now <popey> they run one after the other <bigcalm> Constantly? <popey> no, every 10 mins <bigcalm> Wow, lots of data to crunch <bigcalm> Ok <popey> they run "nice -n19" <gord> with how long it takes to generate those maps, thats almost constantly ;) <popey> nah :) <popey> the gmaps one is only once a day because that takes an hour or so first time, after that it's just changed blocks <gord> oh right yeah you don't use the lighting option, that like triples the time, just looks way more pretty so i use it <popey> note the time delta between current_day and current_night now <popey> thats how long it takes :) <popey> hmm, 5 mins per png <popey> so yeah, almost constant <popey> might change it to every hour <bigcalm> 30 mins :) <Myrtti> is that a forest fire? <gord> 15! 10 minutes of rendering, 5 minutes to give it a rest <bigcalm> Aha, my work is showing. So much more to do <czajkowski> ohhh Oracle may not like this http://bit.ly/fNhj3s <popey> right, running at 15 mins past now <screen-x> popey: what's that sphere near a thing that looks like a pyramid volcano? <popey> Myrtti: there are two forest fires <popey> its gords floating house <gord> theres no house :P <popey> floating glass garden? <directhex> the glass sphere? <gord> its a self contained biome! <popey> what do you call it? <bigcalm> Floating green house <popey> :) <directhex> i call it bob <gord> or as i like to call it "something so i know where the damn spawn is" ;) <screen-x> and someone has a house on stilts in the water, very cool :) <directhex> problem with mining on a multiplayer server: accidentally digging into someone's secret underground lair <popey> might not be a lair <davmor2> morning all <popey> i love the farm <popey> is that your handywork next to the farm bigcalm ? * DJones is still waiting for "Farmcraft" or "Mineville" to appear <popey> oh, and loving the bridge supports <popey> need to flood that island we dug up last night <bigcalm> yay for supports <bigcalm> That is not my work by the farm <popey> i like how we have a great big map but all bunch up on Spawn Island <popey> tempted to make that building on the left of spawn island my home <popey> and re-route trains through it <gord> its relatively safe there ;) * czajkowski hugs davmor2 <directhex> lies. i got eaten by a spider on spawn island! :( <gord> you guys made a station + switching platform for your rails yet? thats always fun, feels like transport tycoon <popey> not yet <popey> I do like the idea of a more train-like experience * davmor2 is seriously worried about czajkowski's health and state of mind <dwatkins> DJones: I still play Sim City 2000 occasionally ;) <directhex> i never liked 2k <directhex> i liked the original simcity <directhex> the snes port! <dwatkins> I'm tempted to get hold of Transport Tycoon the free version. <Laney> like this: apt-get install openttd? <dwatkins> Laney: it's that simple? wow <AlanBell> !info openttd <lubotu3> openttd (source: openttd): reimplementation of Transport Tycoon Deluxe with enhancements. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.4-1 (maverick), package size 1619 kB, installed size 3940 kB * dwatkins installs <directhex> needs data files from ttd <dwatkins> Something to keep me busy this evening, thanks Laney :D <dwatkins> ah, that was what I was expecting, directhex <Laney> i heard there was Free data these days <Neoti> have a problem with ProFTPd on one server i can log in on another server i can not i have webmin installed on both and there both configured the same apart from one is 64 bit and one is 32bit same firewalls rules and proftpd is configured the same on both .... any ideas where to start... <Laney> !info openttd-data <lubotu3> openttd-data (source: openttd): common data files for the OpenTTD game. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.4-1 (maverick), package size 2105 kB, installed size 6596 kB <directhex> Laney, really? <Laney> apparently <directhex> Laney, explains why it's not in multiverse <Laney> the maintainer is blathjis and hangs around in #d-devel, ask him! <Laney> is not there now though <Laney> (I met him once at a conference) <dwatkins> seems to start ok :) <directhex> something keeps wiping ipsec-tools.conf :( * screen-x tries to read perl <directhex> my keyboard has a tux key <DJones> Does anybody have a link to the minimum hardware requirements for minecraft, doesn't seem easy to find on the website <czajkowski> davmor2: not long now my dear :) <popey> DJones: lots <davmor2> czajkowski: yeah looking forward to being able to pull faces at you and you see them ;) <MooDoo> czajkowski: stop with the my dear lark, i'm starting to thing your a nice lady *shiver* <DJones> popey: Can you send me one, I'm trying to decide if the machine at home will run it or not before I get to the point of buying it to see what all the hype is <MooDoo> davmor2: you need to keep her in check mate <davmor2> MooDoo: I'm playing her at chess she cheats :D <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm starting to think she's nice :( <popey> DJones: what spec is the pc? <directhex> DJones, have you seen screenshots? o_o <DJones> popey: P4 2.8Ghz/1.5Gb ram, Intel graphics with 128Mb ram <popey> not sure intel gfx will cope <DJones> popey: That was what I was concerned about <kazade> what is that weird bubble thing next to the volcano? <popey> the one in the sky or the one under water? <kazade> sky... <kazade> are they glass? * popey points at gord <kazade> that's pretty cool <kazade> might have to take a look in a bit, must do some work though! <kazade> popey, you can see my base now :) <popey> on the map? <kazade> I did burn the trees down, but not on purpose! <kazade> yeah <kazade> north of the fountain <popey> i think technically north is down and left on the map render <kazade> ok, above the fountain then :) <popey> clearing quite a space there <kazade> indeed :) <kazade> I was gonna build a pyramid, but I see someone already did that :/ <kazade> I'll just build a big fortress :p <popey> we did that last night <popey> loads of sandstone <kazade> the mistake I made was to start clearing/building below sea level <popey> heh <kazade> I only noticed when I removed a block and got flooded <kazade> hence the wall.. <directhex> popey, how can the gfx not cope, it's software rendered isn't it? <gord> gl <seeker> Jabber \o/ <MattJ> Jabber \o/ <seeker> Is it just me or is the #egypt tag useless due to the number of people tweeting about the speech-to-voice posts from Egypt being posted to twitter with the #egypt tag? <dogmatic69> is there a trick to making symlink folders <MooDoo> dogmatic69: not really, are you having an issue? <dogmatic69> ye <dogmatic69> keeps making a broken file <dogmatic69> ln -s /path/to/real /path/to/link <dogmatic69> i can do it in php :D <dogmatic69> any hints? man has -d for folders but says it wont work <BigRedS> dogmatic69 what's broken? That's the normal way of doing it <BigRedS> directories are just another sort of file, after all.. <dogmatic69> it was me, not using full path, but now noting <n1md4> BigRedS: Disk /dev/sda: 998.9 GB, 998999326720 bytes <BigRedS> n1md4: :) <n1md4> Some scary moments there, lots of 'it's fine to delete that, shouldn't have data loss!' <BigRedS> haha! I hate those "shouldn'ts" <n1md4> Now to blog ;) <MartijnVdS> to the blog-mobile! <BigRedS> of course! <dogmatic69> BigRedS: http://pastebin.com/c5qHLd6s <dogmatic69> its lising the files/folders in /from and then complaining that /to does not exist <BigRedS> dogmatic69: you want ln -s, not ls -s :) * dogmatic69 facepalm <BigRedS> haha. I've done that way too many times :) <dogmatic69> thanks BigRedS, i had ln when i was doing it before, <dogmatic69> it gets me EVERY time... * MooDoo facepalm for missing it too lol <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone. <dwatkins> greetings oh brobostigonny one <MooDoo> brobostigon: hello <brobostigon> afternoonings dwatkins and MooDoo :) <brobostigon> dwatkins: hehe, :) * dwatkins is now heading off to work from home <dwatkins> toodleoo folks <brobostigon> bye dwatkins <nperry> Hmmm, If i de-attach from byobu, run the byobu upgrade and re-attach.. It should reattach under the new byobu version, right? <Gringo> Hey all, im quite new to ubuntu any must apps? <mattt> Gringo: alpine/mutt, irssi, screen, etc. :D <Gringo> from the software centre? <directhex> monodevelop <AlanBell> eclipse <gord> Gringo, "must have"? what do you want to do? <DJones> Minecraft? <gord> i can suggest a bunch of applications that are great but you would prolly have no use for <Gringo> dunno really some apps you think are worth having <gord> i refuse to take part in this random app guessing game ;) <MooDoo> AlanBell: in a toot too chugga chugga big red car :) <popey> :) <exobuzz> popey, dont know if you still use jolicloud on the joggler, but ill have a new image ready soonish. <exobuzz> i released a new maverick one earlier <Gringo> any apps to sync music with my iphone? <kazade> Gringo, Rhythmbox should be able to do that (already built-in) * AlanBell thinks MooDoo fancies himself as the next Captain Feathersword <MooDoo> AlanBell: arrrghhh me hearties :) <kazade> hehe, my tower is taking shape: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current_day.png <kazade> just above the fountain :D <MooDoo> looking <kazade> looks a bit like part of Battersea power station :p <kazade> just noticed <AlanBell> I installed adobe acrobat reader from the partner repo but it is all in German. Anyone know how to fix that? <AlanBell> responses of "nein" are too predictable <Baikonur> learn german <kazade> sudo apt-get remove ? <kazade> see, your mistake was installing Adobe Acrobat Reader <AlanBell> not a bad suggestion kazade <AlanBell> yeah there was some PDF that evince wouldn't view <Gringo> on the software centre there is 2 version 1 german 1 english <AlanBell> ah, that will be where I went wrong, thanks Gringo * kazade wonders why they needed to be separate apps <Gringo> np buddy, i just installed it my self :) <AlanBell> me too kazade, that was what confused me * AlanBell does sudo apt-get remove adobereader-deu <Gringo> should i use the recommended gfx driver within ubuntu or can i somehow download latest? i have nvidia 8800GT <AlanBell> I did wonder what deu meant at the time <AlanBell> Gringo: stick to the packaged version <directhex> Gringo, nvidia-installer eats ubuntus for breakfast <directhex> om nom nom <Gringo> lol <Gringo> when i watch avis i get some rips across the film <Gringo> if i dont activate the gfx driver i dont get it <livingdaylight> maybe someone has an idea: every time I shut down or reboot i get a dialog pop up telling me that a program is still running/not ended. Is there a way of figuring out wha tthat is and how to disable it? <HazRPG> morning <HazRPG> well I failed at getting up this morning <Gringo> afternoon <livingdaylight> It reads: A program is still running: Unknown Not responding <livingdaylight> Waiting for the program to finish. Interrupting the program may cause you to lose work. <HazRPG> Gringo: oh yeah, its afternoon now... oops <livingdaylight> with options to cancel or Reboot Anyway <Gringo> :) <livingdaylight> its as though I have a virus <gord> livingdaylight, using compiz? <livingdaylight> gord, i don't know <gord> livingdaylight, do your windows have shadows <screen-x> livingdaylight: have you tried system > administration > system monitor >processes tab, to see what's running? <HazRPG> \o/ hurray pistachios! <livingdaylight> maybe... is there a way I can confirm compiz is running? <livingdaylight> screen-x, I did have a look but nothing obvious jump0ed out at me <gord> ps aux | grep compiz <screen-x> livingdaylight: ps ax |grep -i compiz <screen-x> too slow <HazRPG> hmm, what do those commands do? * HazRPG always wants to learn more terminal commands <livingdaylight> yes, looks like compiz is running <Gringo> ps aux | grep compiz <Gringo> whats that? <screen-x> HazRPG: ps prints a list of running processes, grep = global regular expression print, which is a filter that only lets through lines that match a pattern. <gord> it'll prolly be compiz holding you up then livingdaylight, i have seen that bug on lots of machines <gord> livingdaylight, its safe to force it to quit <livingdaylight> I did: ps -u livingdaylight and got a ton of stuff back; how to identify what is causing the issue? <HazRPG> screen-x: ah, that makes sense <HazRPG> I know the | lets you pipe commands in :) - if IIRC <HazRPG> screen-x: ah so the aux part are parameters to show all processes & services <screen-x> HazRPG: yep * HazRPG stores in memory bank <HazRPG> screen-x: thanks :) <screen-x> HazRPG: its confusing because they don't need a - "ps -ax" makes it more obvious that those are switches. <HazRPG> screen-x: just out of interest, do you call the the '-' a tack or a dash? <HazRPG> since I've heard techies call them "tack" before <screen-x> HazRPG: personally I say dash <HazRPG> when talking about terminal commands <HazRPG> screen-x: yeah I know, not all commands need the dash though - I use the tar command without the dashes <HazRPG> for backing up <HazRPG> although, can be confusing when you've never see the original command before <screen-x> HazRPG: interesting command structure: tar cz dir |ssh box 'cat - >dir.tar.gz' <X3N> any electronic bods around? I'm wondering if an idea to make an induction transducer from an old microphone is crack or not <HazRPG> screen-x: okay, that looks like gibberish to me xD <HazRPG> I got the first part "tar cz" <screen-x> HazRPG: then what happens? <HazRPG> well dir lists directory contents <HazRPG> but I've never used ssh, so I'm not sure what that's doing <screen-x> HazRPG: ahh, in that case its an unfair question! <HazRPG> but would it be say to assume its placing the file onto a separate machine called "cat" <HazRPG> actually no wait <screen-x> HazRPG: nope, ok, ignore that command, and play with ssh! <HazRPG> cat is contactinate? <screen-x> yeah concatenate <HazRPG> box would be the machine its ssh'ing into <screen-x> yep <screen-x> HazRPG: install the ssh package and have a play, if you only have one box, you can ssh to localhost <HazRPG> thought ssh needed username/password to work? <HazRPG> or wait... does it ask for that after the command is executed? <screen-x> it would prompt. <screen-x> but ssh can be automated with keys, so it can be used in scripts. <HazRPG> heh I apparently already installed ssh <screen-x> :) <HazRPG> must have wanted to play around with it at one point <HazRPG> yeah I noticed it asked to confirm the keys <Laney> <HazRPG> oh wow, so ssh basically just gives you a secure connection to a machines terminal <screen-x> HazRPG: yep <AlanBell> and more <screen-x> and filesystem... <screen-x> and network... <AlanBell> try ssh -X 192.168.. <HazRPG> nice <AlanBell> then run a GUI app <MooDoo> just like logging in to a comand prompt from many a mile away :) <TheOpenSourcerer> See also scp & sftp <HazRPG> 192.168... being any machine in the house? <AlanBell> and port mapping <TheOpenSourcerer> and sshfs <AlanBell> HazRPG: yes, as long as both are running Linux (or X) <DJones> HazRPG: Now that you know about SSH, next step will be "Screen" and then "irssi" <screen-x> DJones: \o/ <AlanBell> it is a slippery slope DJones <MooDoo> DJones: which is what i use :) <HazRPG> yeah, I've got another machine in the house that uses ubuntu too <HazRPG> in fact, technically 3 now <HazRPG> netbook (mine), laptop (mine) and a spare desktop I have in my computer room... which my sister uses mainly <DJones> I thought irssi was a pain to use when I changed from xchat, but I don't think I could go back to xchat now * TheOpenSourcerer sticks to pidgin <popey> \o/ irssi <HazRPG> lol, is it really better than a GUI client? <Neoti|work> hey i use Xchat... <popey> define "better" <Neoti|work> i dont see anything wrong with it ... <popey> I didnt see anything wrong with xchat until i moved to irssi <HazRPG> popey: I meant irssi <popey> HazRPG: i know <popey> HazRPG: I'm asking you to clarify "better" <jpds> popey: Now move to ii. <popey> heh <HazRPG> screen-x: good thing I know the man command, so -X basically just enables X11 <DJones> HazRPG: Probably not better, just works differently & suits some users better than xchat/any other gui based client <s-fox> Hello. <screen-x> HazRPG: yep :) <HazRPG> popey: that's why I asked my question lol <screen-x> s-fox: hi <s-fox> Hello screen-x =) <HazRPG> so would I be right in thinking its kind of like enabling remote desktop? <HazRPG> except you can access other things the machine has? <seeker> Hai <HazRPG> hey <HazRPG> \o <s-fox> o/ <Laney> it lets you run applications on the remote machine and display them locally <screen-x> Laney: I was struggling to come up with something that succinct :) <Laney> not exactly the snappiest though <HazRPG> DJones: ooo, and screen is kinda like having sessions for the terminal your accessing * HazRPG taps fingers on together <popey> HazRPG: hey ho, you missed my point, if you dont define what the word "better" means (faster, leaner, less gui, more gui) then nobody can say whether A is 'better' than B <seeker> I prefer A <HazRPG> popey: sorry was messing in the terminal, I mean it gives you more features then a standard gui one would - more, erm... freedom to do other things with it (scripts, etc maybe?) <popey> seeker: you are clearly wrong, B is miles better <seeker> Pfft, lies! <popey> dunno, there's certainly a lot of scripts around for irssi to customise it <seeker> Irssi ftw <HazRPG> popey: pidgin vs irssi <popey> dunno, never used pidgin for irssi, it doesn't meet my personal requirements <directhex> fyi, minecraft crashes on startup if you have a disabled monitor in xrandr <popey> nice <Seeker`> irssi ftw <HazRPG> popey: and what would that be? <popey> HazRPG: to run on a remote server on a command line interface <popey> so i can get to it via ssh <seeker> I don't think there is anything you can do on pidgin that you can't in irssi <popey> thats a good way of putting it <popey> yet vice versa.. not so true <HazRPG> popey: wait, so basically you use it to mask your IP address :P? <popey> no <popey> thats not the goal <popey> thats a by-product <seeker> HazRPG: You run it on a server using screen <seeker> Then ssh in to the server <seeker> That gives you a permanent presence <DJones> HazRPG: Because irssi is running within screen on a machine 24/7, you never end up logging out <popey> indeed, people using irssi often look like they are always online <popey> handy for scrolling back :) <andylockran> like moi! <Seeker`> e.g. i can ssh to the server via my phone <Seeker`> and look at PMs from anywhere with net access <HazRPG> hmm... <seeker> Its just easier to use a GUI client on a phone <popey> and using bitlbee in the same irssi window one can be online in skype / msn / icq / yahoo / google talk etc.. <DJones> Even if you're forced to use a Windows machine, you can still connect via SSH using putty <popey> yeah, i quite like colloquy <popey> \o/ exactly as I am now :) <popey> :( windows <HazRPG> popey: I guess those are all good things, but my machine is never turned off <seeker> Apart from the battery drain, colloquy is great <HazRPG> my pidgin stores all settings, and logs into my dropbox account, which I can access from anywhere <seeker> HazRPG: Are you always at your machine? <DJones> popey: putty or puttytray? I found puttytray was slightly more convinient & offered some extra capeabilities <popey> plain putty <HazRPG> seeker: most times, but when I'm not I either VNC or Remote Desktop to it <popey> vnc is quite an inefficient way to get on irc ;) <HazRPG> true <HazRPG> but if your not at your machine, I don't see a need to just hop onto irc lol <popey> hey ho <popey> each to their own <andylockran> indeed <HazRPG> this is true <HazRPG> everyone has their own needs <popey> It's Chai O'Clock! <HazRPG> although I may have to investigate this regardless <DJones> HazRPG: Depends on your needs, if I'm at home, I still use SSH from my laptop to connect to irssi running on a server (which is on 24/7 as a media/web/print server), if I'm at work I do the same from my office computer <screen-x> I don't tend to use irssi, but I use a proxy (bip) so I can use a specific client for each OS/platform, without appearing to log in/out when I switch between them. <andylockran> CHAI!!! <directhex> popey, fix for xrandr bug is to manually replace lwjgl files in ~/.minecraft/bin with upstream latest ones * screen-x is down to his last tea bag * seeker teabags screen-x ? <HazRPG> DJones: yeah I have a server on all the time too <HazRPG> screen-x: I thought even if your using a proxy you'd still see an online/offline thing going on <screen-x> HazRPG: well occasionally, but only when my proxy goes down. <popey> directhex: you using ATI or Intel? <popey> HazRPG: not necessarily <popey> HazRPG: I have optionally configured my irssi to show me "away" when I am not logged in, but thats not the default <directhex> popey, intel. <HazRPG> wow I have a lot to learn xD <popey> directhex: does minecraft run okay on it? <popey> also reminds me, need a new mouse for the kitchen mac <popey> really don't like the apple mouse <HazRPG> you mean the whole mousing being the clicking button annoys you too ;) * screen-x despises the mighty mouse, but the magic mouse is tolerable. * HazRPG rotfl <HazRPG> I'm a firm believer in Apple overcharge way too much for their hardware * screen-x is a magpie and likes shiny <HazRPG> everyone likes shiny :P <HazRPG> I've built better machines then Apple pump out, with longer warranty <directhex> popey, low detail, normal render distance <popey> i disagree, but there we go <popey> I think apple make nice hardware <HazRPG> I mean, my machine that I'm using right now only cost me the price of DDR3 RAM and CPU, because the motherboard I had gave way before the 3 year warranty on it ended - so got my money back, and bought a better motherboard - that was actually cheaper than the original one <seeker> HazRPG: They aren't charging for the hardware, they are charging for the hardware, the software and the user experience <popey> ok, "I got this thing for free, or I already had it, and its cheaper than apple" - well Duh! <HazRPG> popey: oh don't get me wrong, they do amazing things - which I respect them for, however the price tag is way too much for what you get <popey> :) <popey> if that was the case they wouldn't sell so many of them <popey> https://www.apple.com/investor/ <HazRPG> as mentioned earlier, people like shiny <popey> people wont pay infinite money for shiny <popey> I didnt buy my laptop because of shiny <MartijnVdS> not infinite, but still a lot <HazRPG> popey: but is it an apple? <popey> yes <HazRPG> and was it your first apple product? <bigcalm> My work is turning treetastic <popey> no <HazRPG> there ya go then ;) <popey> what? <popey> you said people like shiny <popey> I said i didnt buy it for the shiny <popey> you switch tack to something else? <popey> which is it, shiny or not? * popey tires of the endless analysis people try to do when people buy apple hit <popey> *kit <HazRPG> you've already associated in your mind that apple makes good products/user experience/support that you automatically would buy their products for those reasons <HazRPG> I don't blame you <popey> not automatically <popey> at all <HazRPG> I always buy HP laptops for the same reason <popey> I evaluated a bunch of products <popey> you're making massive assumptions <HazRPG> I guess <popey> i dont "always" buy anyones products <popey> I have in the last 10 years owned (personally) laptops from HP, Acer, Asus, Dell, Toshiba, and Apple. Through work I've had Dell, Fujitsu and IBM laptops. <seeker> Ultimately, apple are one of the biggest companies in the world, they must do something right <HazRPG> well I'll use me as an example, and I've observed it for years with many others too, but I will always buy a Samsung TV - because the first one I ever got lasted even till this very day (it is currently 12 years old). And I still use it as much as when I first got it - never needed repair, etc... and so I've always stuck with Samsung for TV's (i.e. the living room one is a Samsumg) <HazRPG> seeker: I wouldn't say the biggest, I mean Oracle would probably be the biggest, but since people don't ever see physical products from them - no one even knows they exist <seeker> I used to buy nvidia cards. Then I switched to ati because they are better for me <dwatkins> What defines a company as 'big'? <seeker> HazRPG: Biggest in terms of Market cap <seeker> Apple has twice the Market cap of oracle <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_global_software_companies <popey> #1 apple <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_global_technology_companies <popey> #15 apple <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue <popey> #110 <HazRPG> figures can be swung depending on what your trying to prove though <popey> haha <popey> okay. <HazRPG> its true <seeker> Apple are the 2nd in the world in terms of Market cap <seeker> So the 2nd most expensive company in the world * popey notes that at least 3 other people in this channel have the exact same Apple laptop as me <HazRPG> I mean global warming that's being pushed down our throats for years, is because it's a big industry... yet the one thing they always forget to mention is that the world is on a cycle - we are just hitting the period where the earth's temperature is getting hot again <seeker> The company is worth over 300 *BILLiON* dollars <popey> woah there cowboy <HazRPG> they make it seem like the world is going to end, when really its not the world - its just us that's going to end, the world will still be here regardless <popey> we've leapt from Apple laptops are only bought by people who like shiny, to apple aren't a big company, to global warming isn't true. <seeker> HazRPG: And I've got brown hair. How is that relevant? <HazRPG> oh, was just proving that numbers can mean anything depending on how you want to swing it <HazRPG> e.g. Carbon emission is meant to be "causing" global warming <seeker> HazRPG: You cannot reasonably dispute that apple is one of the biggest companies in the world <seeker> In terms of profit, revenue or value <HazRPG> well that might be what the figures show, but you could also say the amount of carbon we have now, compared to when the whole world worked on Coal at one point had more carbon in the air - yet it was freezing back then <HazRPG> seeker: Oh I can't, obviously numbers are numbers <seeker> Ok, im going to stop here and just leave it with "you're being silly" <HazRPG> but when one goes out to buy their apple product, it's nothing more than choice - usually swayed by marketing, shininess and being friendly (support) <BigRedS> isn't that how most purchasing decisions are made? <seeker> HazRPG: Because no other company has marketing or support? Or shininess? <seeker> "buy our product, the ui is terrible and it looks like crap"? <popey> (C) Canonical <popey> :D <DJones> HazRPG: i don't buy Apple products, but I wouldn't deny that Apple make great quality hardware, it looks good, it works well and most importantly, it meets the needs of the users <andylockran> hmm <HazRPG> lol, yeah but Microsoft is one of the most used O/S's... yet it has more flaws then a bucket filled with holes <screen-x> popey: you rogue ;-) <andylockran> my bottom left key (opposite of / is misbehaving) <popey> The cost of an Apple laptop is only part of the purchasing decision. MY Apple laptop cost about the same as a 'PC' laptop. <andylockran> when I press it, it zooms my screen in <andylockran> any idea where this binding may be set ? <seeker> A bucket full of holes just has 1 flaw <seeker> It's full of holes <popey> It's a sieve! <seeker> Quite <HazRPG> My PC cost me Â£300-400 <seeker> HazRPG: Mine cost me Â£1200. Your point? <DJones> HazRPG: My laptop cost Â£2500 <popey> The cost however was only part of the decision. I like the display, the illuminated keyboard, the built in multi-touch touchpad, the magsafe power adapter, the lack of noise, the build quality, the battery life, the speaker quality... and so on.. :) <HazRPG> yeah, but I built mine - if I'd gone out to get the same spec someone had previously built and loaded up with stuff I'd never use would cost me around Â£1000 * MooDoo goes out and buys a mac <seeker> I built mine too <MooDoo> and then ducks :) <seeker> I still don't get your point <HazRPG> seeker: I'm intrigued now, what does yours have? <seeker> I buy things that meet my needs. I will spend a little extra on shiny, but I won't buy it if it doesnt do what I want <popey> my apple was 1159.98 inc VAT <HazRPG> popey: See this is why people think I'm annoying, everyone thinks I just want to make a point xD - all I want are other people's oppinions <popey> well, you've been telling me why I buy apple <popey> incorectly <popey> thats not asking for opinion <seeker> I7 920@4Ghz, 6GB RAM, SSD, ATi 5870 <screen-x> mmmm i7 9xx <popey> nice <HazRPG> popey: yeah, but the average (and I use it loosely) buy into Apple, just because they've used an Apple before <screen-x> that's shiny :) <popey> nope <BigRedS> HazRPG: that, surely, explains Windows users more than Apple? <popey> bloke sat next to me bought an apple laptop because he saw mine <BigRedS> given Apple's in a state of growth <seeker> HazRPG: Is it a problem if they do? <HazRPG> BigRedS: works for Apple too, some uni's use OSX then Windows <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/205472 they dont make mine anymore <BigRedS> But that's why I serially buy stuff. I've another thinkpad 'cause I know I like them and don't see what's to gain from trying anybody else <HazRPG> seeker: oh, of course not - its just some people buy blink, just because they don't want to look into it properly before they buy <HazRPG> blind* <popey> wheee mass generalisations fail <BigRedS> HazRPG: which is fine. People do that with everything. When they don't really care about what it is they're buying of course they're not going to bother going into much detail <seeker> But you seem to think that is worse for apple than other company's <BigRedS> people do it with cars and washing machines and computers and crockery and breakfast cereal etc. <TheOpenSourcerer> Bloke in the pub I know (not a geeky chap by any stretch of the imagination) bought a Mac because he was fed up with Windows being crap. <seeker> You said you'll do the same for samsung TVs <popey> Heh, seems fair <TheOpenSourcerer> My son will be *very* excited when he gets home from scholl. His iPod Touch has arrived. <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: Yeah, but see that's giving another company a chance... most don't tend to do that and just live with what they've got <popey> I'd probably buy another Apple laptop or maybe a thinkpad after this. Not because Apple is so good, but _every_ other laptop is _so_ bad. <HazRPG> seeker: I know I do, I buy something I know won't just randomly break down on me <BigRedS> HazRPG: which is fine, surely, as lon as they're not disappointed with whatever that company is giving them <HazRPG> BigRedS: of course not <TheOpenSourcerer> He originally purchased an Archos 43, but the resistive touch was crap and the accelerometer didn't work properly. Shame really - it was a nice idea, just badly executed. * BigRedS mourns his H340 again <TheOpenSourcerer> I recently bought a Samsung TV because it had the best spec for the price. I had had JVC and other models before that. <popey> 15:26:08 < HazRPG> seeker: I know I do, I buy something I know won't just randomly break down on me <popey> you don't _know_ that <popey> you have a preconceived idea about that based on past experience <BigRedS> this sounds excessively agnostic :) <danfish>
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