#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-01 <ailo> holstein: I will install US on a couple of machines in the coming days and investigate this rt stuff. Also, start looking on making a testing suite to compare hardware/kernels with audio. <ailo> I don't have firewire myself, so I would need help in testing that <holstein> ailo: i have natty and maverick <holstein> on a laptop <holstein> let me know if i can confirm something <holstein> ailo: PM? <ailo> What's PM? Memo? <holstein> a /q if you dont mind... <ailo> Still new to irc and the whole english language too, for that matter :) <holstein> no worris <holstein> worries* <holstein> i didnt want to query you in a personal chat without asking first #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-03 <ScottL> jussi, jussi01 , do either of you know when TheMuso is getting back? i really need someone to sanity check some code and then push it to fix the 'unity as default xsession' problem for natty <ScottL> lol, do "either" of you <ScottL> or persia, might you afford some time? <jussi> ScottL: you can also ask people in #ubuntu-motu for help with that sor t of stuff :) <falktx> ScottL: btw, I pushed ladish into ubuntu's revu <falktx> I got no comments so far, again... <ScottL> falktx, can you possibly get it into debian? that would probably greatly speed the acceptance <falktx> ScottL: I've consider that, but I'm not sure how to do it... <falktx> quadispro is the debian guru... <ScottL> falktx, i think i am not overstating to say that the debian multimedia team is aggressive about working packages <ScottL> either pushing them into experiemental in a timely fashion <ScottL> or making comments back to those who package them <ScottL> falktx, there are also wiki pages that would greatly help, i'll see if i can find some of them for you in the coming days <falktx> ScottL: i'm just a little busy right now, and that sort of thing looks like takes a lot of time... <ScottL> falktx, from what i've seen, you have already done the hard work...packaging <ScottL> to get it into debian would be to get it into their git repositories and then post to the mailing list for sponsorship <falktx> ScottL: but I'm sure I missed something... I always do.. <ScottL> falktx, yes, just like in REVU someone will look it over and give feeback, just it seems that debian multimedia team is more responsive, especially for audio related applications <falktx> yep <falktx> ScottL: btw, I'm about to announce the new PPAs <ScottL> cool :) <ScottL> got a minute to pm? <falktx> ScottL: sure #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-04 <ailo> ScottL: I could give it a go, but I need to know what specifically needs to be changed. Maybe a screenshot could do? <ailo> Or a nice description... <ailo> holstein: just had a look at irc logs for the last meeting. Wasn't much of a meeting :( <holstein> ailo: yeah, we're going to try again mid-january <holstein> or so <holstein> maybe a weekend day <ailo> Is there a good place to look for what needs to be done, or what is decided <holstein> i usually try and catch ScottL in a query when he's not busy <ailo> Would be great to have a list and assignees on the wiki, or something <holstein> ailo: i like that <ailo> Have you talked about changing the US theme, ever? <holstein> maybe we could try and implement something like that in the next few weeks <ailo> Or making variations. <holstein> ailo: im not sure about the art <holstein> we were talking about the site <holstein> and maybe theme-ing based on that? <holstein> not sure... <ailo> ok <ailo> By the way, holstein, you tried firewire on 10.10, right? <holstein> yeah <ailo> Out of the box? <holstein> i got abogani 's kernel <holstein> the one for 11.04 <holstein> and it worked fine <ailo> oh, sorry, I meant 11.04 <holstein> OH <holstein> not yet <holstein> i should <holstein> i'll try and get to that this week <ailo> Those things that we did to get it working should be implemented into 11.04, right? But who does that? <holstein> not sure <holstein> they dont have to be implemented <holstein> we need to get more FW gear too <holstein> whatever that box tanders had <holstein> he had to do more than i did <holstein> in 10.10 <ailo> No, it seems his last attempt, from scratch, was pretty much the same as for you, except he had a udev rules file with specific rules for specific devices <holstein> OK <ScottL> ailo, this is what i mean: http://imagebin.org/130890 <ScottL> notice the two dark grey boxes with light grey text in them <ailo> Yeah <ailo> Only happens in browsers? I get the feeling this is inside a browser. <ScottL> when you pay for things online, it's really, really hard to see the choices <ScottL> ailo, charlie-tca also complained about the GDM login too <ScottL> i played with the widget factory (just ten minute ago) and i couldn't find the offending area :( <ailo> I've changed the GDM, it's not so hard (so it follows the theme), but I have no idea how to get that into the installation. <ScottL> ailo, it's okay, there are more pressing things to worry about currently :) <ailo> I'm interested in the GTK stuff, so I can give it some time. <ailo> What else could I help out with? <ailo> I get the feeling that so far Lucid is the best choice for audio and that maybe Maverick should not be recommended at all, though it is a terrific Desktop distro. <ailo> What will be the biggest change in Natty (aside from the desktop)? <holstein> ailo: we'll keep gnome AFAIK <holstein> the next big change will be wayland <holstein> whenever that happens <ailo> Yeah, read about that. Interesting times.. <holstein> i think 12.04 is the goal <holstein> we'll see <ScottL> ailo, the first most dire thing is getting gnome as the default xsession in my opinion <ScottL> the code is there, now i just need to make a diff, file a bug, attach the diff, and most importantly, get someone to push it into the repos <ScottL> i'm feeling a little punchy about the last bit however <ScottL> those who usually help me with it aren't around lately :( <ScottL> however, i've tried other vectors and will continue with a few more tomorrow <ScottL> then we probably need to see about adjusting the menu (ubuntustudio-menu) to incorporate many of the new applications <ScottL> they will be dumped into the audio menu, instead of the 'audio production' submenu <ScottL> also, i'm hoping to start backporting from maverick to lucid pretty aggressively within two weeks <ScottL> anyone who can help test these would be awesome! <ScottL> i'll make the ppa (done), start pushing code (started), file bugs as necessary (also started), but i need people to test <ScottL> and most importantly report the results of the testing in the bug report <ScottL> once we have two independent and success tests, then the official backports team should pull these in and release them <ailo> ScottL: So, Lucid should replace Maverick by being as up to date? <ScottL> of course these is also the website that apparently has the longevity of a turtle <ScottL> ailo, that is the general plan since it's the LTS version, i would like to <ScottL> of course, there are some thing we will not be able to do probably, like backport jack2 and other libraries <ailo> ScottL: Then it would make sence to change the website, by not including Maverick? Or expand the story about the distros... <ScottL> oh, and for natty i also wanted to replace the plymouth theme and miscellaneous art (GDM, wallpaper) <ScottL> ailo, you mean to not mention maverick on the website? hmmm, hadn't really thought about that <ailo> ScottL: Yes, cause at least for firewire devices, Maverick won't work. <ailo> Without fixes <ailo> Don't know if there are other issues. <ScottL> persia had originally left lucid as the preferred download on the wiki page, it certainly wouldn't hurt to mention that same on the website <ScottL> trouble will be getting stochastic to make the change :( <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ says that 10.04 is still the recommended release <ailo> ScottL: Another thing that throws off new users is that pulseaudio won't work with some multichannel pci chips, wihout a fix. I would love to do something about that. <ScottL> ailo, by all means, please see what you can do :) <ailo> ScottL: It is an Alsa problem, from what I understand. Unfortunately no one seems to want to fix it. <ailo> Anyway, I could try to do something about that. <ScottL> ailo, i am afraid that i do not have an answer about that <ScottL> ailo, but you might check the last three posts here: http://drowninginbugs.blogspot.com/ <ScottL> perhaps one of them discusses the bug of which you speak, perhaps not <ScottL> TheMuso, i am about to go to bed, but will you be available to upload a diff file to the repository about setting gnome-classic as the default xsession? <ScottL> just leave an answer, i'll see it in the morning <ScottL> if you are curious, here is what i have: http://paste.ubuntu.com/548058/ <ScottL> i'll get the diff later <ailo> ScottL: I've taken up the bug on occasion. It is an old one. Initially everyone blamed pulseaudio, but it seems to be Alsa. <ailo> I got the advice once that someone just needed to get into it and fix it. <TheMuso> ScottL: that change looks ok to me, please test it if you can, or get someone else to test t. <ailo> ScottL: This is the stuff for Natty, right? Where do I put it? <ailo> And about the bug, I guess I'll hang out with the alsa guys later to see if they can help me... <ailo> Or, I just run it? I'm about to install Natty today, or tomorrow. <ailo> Right, it was for TheMuso ;) <ailo> Just read up on the multichannel pulseaudio bug. Seems like they're working on it, but no solution in sight. <ailo> And I'm reading up on Ubuntu audio in general. There's the Ubuntu Audio and Ubuntu Audio dev teams in Launchpad with names I recognize. Seems like they are the ones to talk to about audio bugs. <scott-work> TheMuso: i don't have much experience with code, so i was unsure of that fix, and only managed to find someone yesterday who i felt comfortable checking it <scott-work> TheMuso: i will see about testing it and filing the bug report by the end of the week <scott-work> i was getting a little panicky because i couldn't find people i knew to check what i did, much less push it to the repos :P <ailo> ScottL: I'm pretty sure that fixing the dark text on buttons needs a fix in /usr/share/themes/UbuntuStudio/gtk-2.0/gtkrc. However, i can't find a web page that does the dark text thing. <ailo> holstein: You around? <ScottL> ailo, hey, that's pretty cool that you found a place to correct it, i'll try to find a good website that shows the problem later tonight * ScottL is cooking dinner currently <ScottL> ailo, here is a website that has the problem text/background: http://secure.fsckvps.com/cart.php?gid=200015&currency=2 <ailo> ScottL: It may take me a while to figure that one out, cause I need to understand GTK a bit more first. Is Toby Smithe actively maintaining Ubuntustudio-look. Who is doing that? <ScottL> i don't think he is actively maintaining it currently, ailo, but i could be wrong <ailo> ScottL: UbuntuStudio is equal to the ubuntustudio-* packages, right? I'm trying to figure out the structure. Who is responsible at the top of the tree. Is it you? <ailo> Is there bug-reporting for those packages? <ScottL> ailo, i suppose it would be me at the top of the ubuntu studio tree, although i must admit a caveat <ScottL> i am not the most technically knowledgeable individual within the ubuntu studio framework <ScottL> i.e. per.sia and The.Muso are much, much more technically minded than i in general about ubuntu and sundry <ailo> ScottL: How about bug-reporting? Task management... <ScottL> ailo, if you assign the bug to 'ubuntustudio-dev' it will notify all that are members of the team <ScottL> ailo, task management is more or less handle in an ad hoc manner as needed <ScottL> but those who wish to fix something won't be dissuaded ;) <ailo> ScottL: So, how do I become a member? Throw you a message in Launchapad? <ailo> I'm not the most technical person myself, but I know a little about most things. I'm mostly interested in getting a good foundation for audio, not only limited to UbuntuStudio. #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-05 <ScottL> ailo, the ubuntustudio-dev group is restricted to those familiar with code, otherwise some fairly dramatic, although unintentional, issues might result :P <ailo> ScottL: No problem. Just trying to figure out how things are connected. Who does what, what needs to be done. Is there a wishlist. That sort of thing. <ScottL> ailo, i'm glad you feel that way :) <ScottL> as far as a wishlist, this would be the closest thing, i think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning <ScottL> to be honest, it seems that most people are not involved consistently enough to do it collaboratively, so i keep a running list of things i would like to accomplish <ScottL> i wish it were otherwise <holstein> ScottL: maybe we could get a few of use commited <holstein> and do something more formal <holstein> ailo and i were talking about a wiki page <holstein> with tasks <ScottL> holstein, that would be awesome <holstein> and we assign ourselves <ScottL> we used to have something similar, hold one <holstein> i was talking about maybe we could get something like that going on by february <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/LucidTaskList <ailo> At least it would be great if all participants, even tester can check what needs testing, what needs solving and so on. <ScottL> yes it would :) <ScottL> i had thought about making a task-list page, one that would be continually updated for each release instead of a new one for each release <ScottL> but it doesn't have to be that way, whatever people want and whatever works <holstein> ScottL: whatever you think is more convinient <ailo> We could start by just one for Natty, and if it works to keep the same for later releases, just keep it. <holstein> i like it <ailo> I'm a little concerned with some out of date pages here and there, on launchpad, and maybe on the wiki too <ailo> When people look for info, it can get a little confusing <holstein> ailo: sounds like a good item for that wiki we're proposing <holstein> maybe just a search and locate the pages project <holstein> thats something i could chew through <ailo> I think there should be a link to a development, open to anyone on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/, that doesn't need to conflict with the dev teams work. <ScottL> updating the out-of-date pages, or deprecating them, would be a good task :) <ailo> That would be a good starting point to collect links to other pages too <ScottL> ailo, the general feeling is that all pages on wiki.ubuntu.com should be for developing ubuntu studio and help.ubuntu.com should be for using ubuntu studio <holstein> OH <ScottL> that's just a large and generalized overview of the documentation scheme <holstein> thats news to me <holstein> makes sense though <ScottL> there is some cross pollination between the two, but i think it would be helpful going forward to try to adhere to that convention <ailo> We need some standard items to work on as well, I think, but perhaps this could be outlined in a meeting later on. I'm thinking we need a list of things to test, and that sort of thing. <holstein> i like the idea here <ScottL> some of the things to test would be based on the work flows beings developed, but also there are other, more system-level things as well <holstein> a non-dev development wiki page <holstein> someting i can just reference real quick <holstein> drop links to wiki pages in <holstein> ping you guys to look at them <holstein> things that i think need to be tested <holstein> OR that i need confirmed <ailo> It's generally the oversight I feel is missing, that probably the dev guys have, but it's not communicating. <holstein> i think the more we do though <holstein> to be organized <holstein> the better <ailo> I agree <holstein> if we have links to present with black and white print of what we need <holstein> drop that in #moto or whatever <ScottL> i had tried to get a few guys to form a testing group to develop some of these tests <ScottL> just oversight stuff like: does jack start, does ardour start, does gimp start, etc <holstein> its challenging <holstein> with JACK <ScottL> making some simple recordings, use a synth to make noise (or music) <holstein> that can be SO hardware dependant <ailo> Is UbuntuStudio-controls still outdated? <holstein> my firewire interface wont start with JACK in 10.10 <holstein> but that doesnt make JACK broken <ailo> I'd say these are issues to put in the wiki <holstein> and im just getting to where i think i could trouble-shoot and get to the bottom of some of that <ailo> I think many users are accustomed to doing fixes themselves on a lot of releases. They won't do a bug report even. <holstein> bug reports are still challening for me <holstein> and its a lot of work too <holstein> can be <ScottL> ailo, yes, ubuntustudio-controls is outdated <holstein> and, like my issue <holstein> is that a bug? <holstein> JACK works <ScottL> i can't find anybody with python experience who is willing to work on it <holstein> just not with my firewire interface <ailo> ScottL: I know a little python. <holstein> i filed a bug report though <ScottL> holstein, i don't think it's that big of deal to test jack, we need someone with pci card and another with firewire to test it using their normal setup <ailo> I'm guessing it's basically just a script, but it needs su permission to edit files. <ScottL> they should be familiar enough with their hardware to understand what it should take to get it started, if it doesn't start then there is a problem <ScottL> ailo, yes, basically, but there is other stuff <holstein> sure, but how do we get it fixed ? <ScottL> like checking to see if the limits.conf file (or whatever) already has rtprio, et al, already there and change that line instead of adding a new one <holstein> i dont think its OK to ship it out of the box with what would be needed <holstein> OR that was the excuse i heard that made sense <holstein> and, how much of a priority should firewire devices be? <ailo> ScottL: jack is using a different file for that now. It's in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf <ScottL> holstein, in a general sense, if testing results in a problem, then report it in a bug or to the -dev team, and we work on a fix before release <holstein> it doesnt say anywhere on the site 'firewire support out of the box' <ScottL> holstein, but i understand your point about firewire devices <holstein> ive seen the bugs for that though <ScottL> and i concede the point <holstein> since hardy and before <ailo> Ubuntustudio control should not be needed anymore, unless one wants to toggle rt <holstein> and when i have made noise, i heard a security concern, which i understand <ScottL> i would like to perhaps have a ubuntu studio-dev ppa with a -rt kernel in it and have a package that updates the sources.list to include that ppa <holstein> ScottL: i like that <ScottL> ailo, i think it also enable the raw1394 for video/firewire <ailo> ScottL: right, but that has changed too now. <ailo> Because of the new firewire stack <ScottL> holstein, let's be honest, laptops and firewire cards are probably half (if not more) of the users now and probably will continue to be a substantial percentage for the future <holstein> yeah, might need to search aroudn and find all the changes <holstein> get them on that wiki too <holstein> so we know what is what <ScottL> ailo, oh, i didn't know that <holstein> ScottL: i think its a good idea for it to be a priority IF the focus is going to be pro-audio out of the box <ailo> I put the question to Asmo on the -dev mail list if he got firewire working out of the box on Natty. On Maverick it won't. <ailo> Installing jackd already takes care of rt <holstein> ScottL ailo , i think this has been a productive meeting so far :) <ailo> ScottL: I think it has been proved that there is a gap between user and dev in this case. Testing is a way to redeem that. I think Abogani put it out there first, and that has made a few of us users to get involved. <ailo> We don't need to be so many, but we need all kinds <ailo> To do testing <ailo> And we need to be able to see the results, and then act on them <ScottL> ailo, "installing jack takes care of rt"...i think yes and no, it installs a preset in the audio.conf file but what if someone wants to change the memlock from unlimited? <ScottL> holstein, i agree, this has been productive :) <ScottL> ailo, very true, we had considered developing a matrix of what types of test and testers we would like (e.g. start jackd using pci card, start jackd using firewire, etc) <ailo> Ubuntustudio-control is a way for a normal user to get access to rt control, without having to know how it works. I think jackd's default settings already take are of that. For a new user, they don't even know what rt is. <ailo> I think abstracting things is a big discussion. On Linux we like to be able to do what we want <ailo> Gui-tools do not always let you do that, but if this one has legitimity, why not? <ailo> ScottL: Anyway, I like "e.g. start jackd using pci card, start jackd...". We need that. <ailo> ScottL: I'll have a look at Ubuntustudio controls. I have knowledge enough to adjust it. The base code is already there. One only needs to tweak it. If needed I can do something with it. Otherwise, I would take it off the repo. <ScottL> ailo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May16 <ScottL> about 1/2 down the first screen it mentions ubuntustudio-controls update <ScottL> ailo, i don't know that we have considered all the uses for -controls <ailo> ScottL: Ok, so there are some big plans for that app, then :) <ailo> Sort of like a US wizard <ScottL> not necessarily, just floating ideas, but no one seemed to really get into it <ScottL> but you are right, if nothing is going to be done with it (e.g. fix it or improve it), then it should be removed <holstein> +1 on remove <ScottL> holstein had mentioned included the -rt kernel on the disc like another distro had done along with instructions how to install it <ScottL> this might be translated into something in -controls for the -rt kernel ppa <ScottL> for an example <holstein> well, thats true <holstein> and a good ide <holstein> a <holstein> hmmm <ScottL> lol <ailo> I'm interested in that. <ailo> I like the idea of some sort of wizard, that would help new users to get comfortable fast. <ScottL> stochastic made another suggestion that i had toyed with before: giving new users links to help via shortcuts on the desktop <ScottL> i would even like to include a 'release notes' also on the disc that installs and is in the menu * ScottL stole that from debian lxde <holstein> i like all of this <holstein> i feel like, if you're using ubuntustudio, and dont get on the irc <holstein> you're just screwed <holstein> OR i was <ScottL> when i have built a machine for friends and installed ubuntu studio i do a few things for them <holstein> i used to fire up rosegarden and wonder why it wasnt doing anything <holstein> or wonder what those JACK errors were when i would click on something <ScottL> i add firefox icons on the desktop for help.ubuntu.com, ubuntu forums, wiki.ubuntu.com, a video i made for starting and using jack, ardour, rakarrack <ailo> Well, we could decide on a deadline when it needs to be finished. I can take it on. I'm sure there lot's of people interested in participating. <ScottL> and setup xchat to get into #ubuntustudio on IRC <holstein> ScottL: NICE <holstein> instead of #ubuntu <ScottL> i would love to include instruction videos (or links to them) on the disc <holstein> ScottL: we have missed natty right? <holstein> natty is in freeze for us too right? <ScottL> but all these ideas get put on the backburner because i'm struggling to things straight just for releases <holstein> or does that include us too? <ScottL> holstein, no, it shouldn't be yet i don't think <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule <ScottL> release freeze is at the end of february, i think that would be what we need to worry about <ScottL> BUT, if we are making new packages, then yes we would have troubles, REVU doesn't move fast :( <ScottL> we should probably organize it all and truly understand what we want to incorporate <ScottL> then make a simple package for just one part of what we want done <ScottL> once it's in the repos, then updating it to include other aspects is much, much easier <ailo> Well, I'm still waiting to hear whether firewire does work out of the box. If it does, US-controls won't be needed anyway, and we can let that one wait until the next release. <holstein> i dont think we need to make new packages <holstein> for now <holstein> for natty <holstein> some of these little changes would be great though <holstein> and a menu item or 2 <ScottL> there were still things that i had planned for natty: updating menu, new artwork, new plymouth theme <holstein> ScottL: did you see that email from falk? <holstein> about his menu? <holstein> i liked that too <ScottL> yes holstein, but there are things going on in debian that might preclude our efforts <holstein> AH <ScottL> they are considering the same thing, but not in the hackneyed way we are currently doing it <ailo> About plymouth, what's the problem other than that it is not syncing with boot (so fast these days) <ScottL> they want to create new categories and including these categories in the desktop file <ScottL> this way it's all automatic and according to convention <ailo> Categorizing is hard to do on a general level <holstein> ScottL: i like that to <holstein> o <holstein> whats the ETA on that? <ScottL> ailo, well, the graphics are crappy :-) i can say that becuase i did them (plymouth) <ScottL> seriously, i realized that we were switching, nobody had a plymouth theme, so i spent a frantic weekend learning plymouth, and made that theme <holstein> i dont think i have the US plymouth theme <ailo> Wow, nice work. It impressed my friends, when I showed them US. <holstein> maybe i broke it <ScottL> cory's new plymouth theme (that needs some tweaks): http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/new-plymouth-theme.png <ScottL> ignore the fact that the circle-like thing is to the left of the coF <ailo> The plymouth theme doesn't really have any reason to exist in the future, I think, since boots are so fast. Better to use a simple image. <ScottL> if should be over the CoF and spinning in a circle <holstein> yeah, saw that, and i liked it <holstein> slcik <holstein> slick* <ScottL> i would also like to remove the progress bar because of what ailo said <ailo> slick is the word * ScottL is going to take a shower <holstein> ScottL: laterx <holstein> ailo: i like where this is going <ailo> holstein: me too. <ScottL> ailo, and holstein, agreed, this is asesome progress, i'm very glad that both of you are here :) <holstein> w00t <ScottL> i'll try to add these ideas to the release planning page for natty+1 <ScottL> just to get them down on "paper" * abogani waves <abogani> Which will be the default music player in Natty? banshee? <ailo> abogani: I heard it would be, but so far not.. <ailo> Though, rythmbox has ben removed from the volume indicator menu <abogani> ailo: Thanks! <jussi> ScottL: ping me when you are around - Id like to pass the ML's completely over to you <scott-work> jussi: is this something that needs to be done while i am at work? <scott-work> s/work/home? <scott-work> supercollider may be hitting debian soon :) <scott-work> looks like a patch went from debian multimedia upstream and it is being incorporated into the their upcoming release <holstein> scott-work: ScottL if you get a minute, feel free to mark that new bug i filed 'wishlist' as well <holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/697774 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 697774 in Ubuntu Studio "cant install ubuntustudio from USB stick" [Undecided,New] <holstein> i'll go ahead and assigne myself <holstein> bbl... <falktx> hehe, holstein, that will only work if US was a live-cd/dvd <holstein> falktx: i already filed that bug :) <holstein> and marked it wishlist <holstein> just trying to make some official documentation <holstein> i need to get that added to the install wiki at some point <falktx> i promised a live-dvd of US, and I'll make it <falktx> just need time... <holstein> i saw that i missed i question about that in #ubuntustudio <holstein> "cant get unetbootin to work with ubuntustudio iso <holstein> resonable mistake <holstein> if you're new to the alternate installers <holstein> alright, for realz.. BBL <holstein> done with lunch <scott-work> holstein: in your bug you link to a flash drive install page and say that it _should_ work, are you saying that you tried it with ubuntu studio and it doesn't work? <holstein> scott-work: OH <holstein> good point <holstein> let me go and fix that <holstein> that is a work-around that i actually havent tried <holstein> BUT i have been told several times that it worked with 10.04 <holstein> hasnt come up since than <holstein> then* <scott-work> holstein: sorry, i wasn't meaning to be a syntax nazi ;) i meant more of does it work? <holstein> scott-work: no, totally <holstein> its not clear <holstein> i did it really quick before lunch #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-06 <scott-work> holstein: with the firewire bug, have you tried enabling raw1394 via ubuntustudio-controls? <holstein> scott-work: i'll try that <holstein> to make sure i cover everything <holstein> but, in 10.10 <holstein> i do all my usual tweaks <holstein> it doesnt work <holstein> but with RT kernel, it does <ailo> holstein: but the raw1394 would only work for the old stack, right? <holstein> ailo: i'll have to confirm that <holstein> it'll be next week i bet <holstein> i'll try and catch up with you and run some tests <ailo> So, I've had a look at Ubuntustudio-controls and I'm sure I can handle an update as well as adding some features. Would be great if all rt related stuff was handled from the same place. <ailo> Even adding user to audio group <ailo> I would start with updating the firewire stuff, but I need confirmation on how that works, so holstein or Asmo will need to help me with that <scott-work> ailo: that sounds good, i would defintely wait until we understand what is necessary/required for firewire <scott-work> trying to install natty last night and it keeps sending sigterm to computer during installing software :( #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-07 <holstein> ScottL: did you see all those build errors :/ <holstein> i guess xorg? <holstein> changes <holstein> thats probably not your're iessu though <holstein> issue* <holstein> the sigterm thing <ScottL> yeah i saw the xorg email :( <holstein> :/ <ScottL> since its xorg i expect others to be looking into though :) <ScottL> but yeah, i don't think it's my sigterm issue <ScottL> i'll be trying the 32bit copy of natty downloaded yesterday <holstein> i did 64-bit for sure <ScottL> i managed to install a lucid install so it's probably not my new machine :) <holstein> not ubuntustudio though <holstein> i should have tried the US iso then <holstein> didnt think about it <ScottL> i'll try the 32bit ubuntustudio install later tonight, see what happens <ScottL> i suppose i could try vanilla ubuntu and then work on the ubuntustudio-settings package to test build it for the unity vs gnome-session issue <ailo> ScottL: Aren't there other outdated packages as well? <ailo> The pavudevchooser, for instance. <ailo> padevchooser, I mean <ailo> I also noticed hal is a dependency, is it needed for something? <ScottL> ailo, i don't really know, but you can file a bug report against it pointing out that dependency <scott-work> holstein: i wonder if an email to the jack-devel mailing list would be helpful for the firewire bug you reported <holstein> scott-work: jack or ffado? <holstein> nah, JACK... <scott-work> holstein: i imagine this has to do with permission for jack start correct? * scott-work doesn't really know because he doesn't have a firewire device <holstein> its all kinda over my head still <holstein> i can test things though <holstein> and ailo and i are discussing it and looking things up here and there <ailo> holstein: we are talking about firewire on 10.10, right? <holstein> ailo: suer <holstein> sure* <holstein> we've been talking about 11.04 too though <holstein> i still havent installed the RT kernel and tested yet <ailo> It seems firewire won't start on either 10.10 and 11.04 without aboganis kernel, right? <holstein> ailo: thats the theory <holstein> im not going to change anything else <holstein> just get that kernel, boot and run sudo qjackctl <holstein> so that should be the only changing variable <holstein> im doing a talk tomorrow at my LUG <holstein> about linux audio <holstein> the laptop i wanted to use has a power issue <holstein> all kinds of noise in whatever interface i try and use with it <holstein> while its plugged in <holstein> and the battery will only last a few seconds ;) <ailo> Yeah, I recognize that <holstein> the other notebook i have has a VIA chip <holstein> and i cant get the VGA to work <holstein> and i need to send to a projector <holstein> maybe i'll just show it on the screen <holstein> and tell whoever is interested they can come over and see it in action if they want <holstein> i dont know how much noise i can make there anyways <ailo> Is the noise really that high from the power? <holstein> its ridiculous <holstein> ive never heard such noise <holstein> something is wrong <ailo> I had some when trying to record on a laptop. Must be some earth, thing. <holstein> it was a donated computer <holstein> traded for work <holstein> who knows <holstein> and its not so nice that i want to go buy a battery and/or power supply <ailo> Maybe a gate after the soundcard? <ailo> And play only real loud music, so the hum is not heard. <holstein> yeah, and ive had that noise before <holstein> this is that only like 20 times worse <holstein> its strange and electrical somehow <holstein> turning the volume down on the amp or speakers has no affect <holstein> effect* <ailo> Well, I think you should try maximizing the sound from your laptop and minimizing on speakers. <holstein> you can hear loud pops with the mouse <holstein> and when keys are pressed <holstein> ailo: i know <holstein> but this is USB, firewire <holstein> whatever <holstein> and with the volume literally all the way off <holstein> on the amp <holstein> its getting passed through somehow <holstein> the volume doesnt change the volume of the noise at all <ailo> It's pretty common to get noise, from usb disks, from the screen... <holstein> usually i can get in's pretty clean via firewire <holstein> and that could still be the case <holstein> i havent tried that <holstein> the out is what i need tomorrow <ailo> Good luck. Sounds like a nightmare. <holstein> eh <holstein> could be worse <holstein> at least i have options <holstein> i can always carry the studio box down there <holstein> i was just expecting it to be easy <holstein> thats what i get for having expectations <scott-work> i have heard that some laptops suffer from ground looping when plugging into an electrical outlet <scott-work> the best thing is to run off of battery to avoid it was the advice <holstein> i should price one <holstein> before i give up on this one <scott-work> eviljames is WAYYY out there on #osmp <holstein> seems commited to his philosphy <scott-work> i just wanted to point out that i found the disparity between the public outrage/media covered on assange/wikileaks and those that broke laws to steal secret documents a little extreme <scott-work> and he's frothing about cheney getting people killed and the government is evilllll!!!!111ONEONETWO <holstein> in theory, our system is set up where a guy like eviljames should be able to run for some office <holstein> and change something <holstein> OR influence <holstein> nothing illegal about that <scott-work> OR get on an IRC channel as go bat shit crazy <holstein> hehe <scott-work> lol...i probably shouldn't have typed that <holstein> eh, its the -dev channel <holstein> we're all adults here <holstein> its not a regular occurance #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-08 <ScottL> it seems like both the amd64 and i386 ubuntustudio ISOs are bombing during the software installation <ScottL> drops to clear screen with "sigterm" at the bottom of the screen <ScottL> i'll check about bug reports with alternate discs later <ScottL> tomorrow i go to my dad's with the kids (and dogs) <ScottL> but i'm on vacation next week so i should be able to get some stuff down :) <holstein> ScottL ailo <holstein> i got around to testing firewire in natty again <holstein> -lowlatency seems OK <holstein> i only have jack installed <holstein> i'll have to install something and give it a workout <holstein> BUT it starts and runs normally <holstein> no xruns <holstein> yet <ScottL> holstein, awesome! <ScottL> so it would seem that you are saying the -generic kernel doesn't work with firewire but the -lowlatency does? <ScottL> did you have to do any extra tweaks to get it to work compared to normally? <ScottL> i'm afraid i'm aware of the new firewire/kernel stack from reading the FFADO website, but do not understand it completely on a fundamental level <ScottL> heading to my dad's this morning, so i'll be away for a day or so <ScottL> well, two days <holstein> ScottL: im running out in a minute <holstein> BUT <holstein> i just tried the generic kernel <holstein> out of the box <holstein> running sudo qjackctl <holstein> then, i installed the -lowlatency <holstein> ran sudo qjackctl <holstein> and it runs as expected <holstein> i wanted that to be the only varialbe <holstein> i wanted that to be the only variable * <ailo> holstein: Ok, so it's definitely only the Maverick generic kernel that does not work. <holstein> ailo: that was natty <holstein> too <holstein> both <holstein> BUT i did more tweaks in the maverick install <holstein> and i wanted to make sure that didnt influence the outcome <ailo> I don't understand. Maverick does not work with generic, right? But Natty does, no? <holstein> OH <holstein> neither <holstein> -lowlatency works with natty <ailo> ok <holstein> i added that one in natty and tried it <holstein> i just jumped to -realtime in maverick <ailo> But Natty should be a problem anyway because of cgroups, which makes rt impossible. <ailo> How about usermode natty/-lowlatency? ffado-rules? <holstein> i'll have to tweak that as normal user <holstein> and see <holstein> ailo: ill ping you when i get to that <ailo> I'm proposing to use the list for specific devices. <holstein> so i can do it in some logical order <ailo> I could check that it's complete. <holstein> bbl... gotta run see if my LUG meeting is off or not #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-09 <detrate> what makes speakers die for a month then come back to life? <detrate> the fuse was fine but they were not getting power <detrate> I let them sit for a month and they were able to push hard for a good 4 hours before I let them relax again <detrate> but they straight up, refused to turn on for a month * ckontros waves <ScottL> hi ckontros * ScottL just got back from my dad's and is unloading the family's bags <ckontros> Fun. :P How's the project going? <ScottL> ckontros, it's messy right now, natty is NOT going smoothly <ScottL> it should come together before release but i was hoping to be at a better place already <ScottL> there's still plans to implement for natty and plans for later releases are being discussed <ckontros> I read the list today. We're always cursed by the kernel. :) <ScottL> i noticed that i didn't get an email about all the xorg build fails so hopefully i can get a natty install so i can fix the default xsession problem <ScottL> ckontros, aya, i really haven't delved too much into it since other problems are happening _and_ i don't have a firewire interface <ScottL> also the latest (up to two days ago) ubuntu studio discs kept dropping to "sigterm" and restarting during software installation <ckontros> Just keep Alessio's spirits up. Studio is almost sunk without him. <ckontros> What was the issue? <ScottL> after i get the xsession issue resolved i was going to get into the sigterm/installation problem <ckontros> Ahh... How has it been dealing w/the Unity changes? <ScottL> check to see if other alternate installs are having the same problem on launchpad bugs, irc, etc <ScottL> ckontros, not too bad except unity will not work currently in ubuntu studio because we haven't add the required packages <ScottL> at least that was the last that i had seen <ScottL> i played with a vanilla natty install with unity enabled and installed audio apps to see how it looked/behaved <ScottL> didn't like it, not at all <ckontros> Yeah. I would think it wouldnt fit Studio. <ckontros> Any other nice developments? Or other changes? <ScottL> well, once we get unity/gnome-session squared as default xsession <ScottL> we still need to update the menu for new applications, update some art, and update the plymouth theme based on what you had done already <ScottL> i feel like i'm almost a month behind were i wanted to be though <ScottL> of course we had also changed the tasksel options to split the audio applications <ckontros> Ok. So nothing earth-shaking. <ScottL> i hadn't really heard any feedback on it actually, surprised me really <ScottL> ckontros, no, not really <ScottL> ckontros, OH, the plan was for the UKT to provide instructions to get other kernels into the repos <ScottL> our goal was to get the -lowlatency kernel into the repos for natty <ckontros> Its not already? <ScottL> i'm still questioning if that is going to happen becuae the UKT guy hasn't done it <ScottL> ckontros, no, after miami the agreement was that the UKT would create and provide the instructions for getting a kernel in and we would need to maintain it <ckontros> Go to IRC kernel meetings. Push where/however you can. <ckontros> You went right? <ckontros> (to miami) <ScottL> persia had said i was to poke him if it the instructions weren't provided in a certain time and he was going to poke someone higher up in the UKT i believe <ScottL> but persia has been not answering lately <ScottL> ckontros, i haven't been to any kernel meeting but i will see about doing so to push this <ckontros> Then you do what you have to. ;) <ScottL> and no, i didn't make it to maimi, but i am scheduled for the next one <ckontros> Ahh... Which is where? <ScottL> i haven't heard any rumours about it yet <ScottL> i am presuming it will be somewhere in europe <ScottL> my wife even wants to go if it's in europe so i certainly have the home approval :P <ckontros> Hehe. <ScottL> we've also gotten some more users involved with development <ScottL> holstein and ailo really have been kicking it <ScottL> and there are several other people who have been involved with the website update <ckontros> killer <ScottL> so, it's progress <ckontros> Sure. How's Luke? <ScottL> busy with assessability on unity and not directly involved much <ckontros> (TheMuso^^^):) <ckontros> Gotcha <ScottL> also we've had some brainstorming on how to improve user experience, small things but helpful i think <ckontros> Awesome. Well, Im gonna go back to the kids. Keep the chin up. Later sir. <ScottL> thank you sir :) <ckontros> :) #ubuntustudio-devel 2011-01-10 <ailo> holstein: How are things going? <holstein> not bad ailo :) <holstein> and you <holstein> ? <ailo> Fine. Just recovering from my aunties birthday party. Did you do any more firewire testing? <holstein> not yet <holstein> i have some things i need to mix down <holstein> i'll try and do some of the work over in natty <holstein> with the -lowlatency kernel <holstein> see how the performance is <ailo> Sounds like a good idea. <ailo> Live mixes? <holstein> well, we recorded live <holstein> at a friends house <holstein> i put it up for the singer to check out <holstein> a rough mix of the whole session <holstein> just one big track <holstein> http://holstein.shacknet.nu/melody/ <ailo> Nice vocals <holstein> ailo: yeahh <holstein> she's alright <holstein> im not crazy about the material <holstein> but its not bad <ailo> Sounds very traditional. <holstein> its in the neighborhood of what i do <holstein> raonyguimaraes: are you on the mailing list? <holstein> the IRC channels tend to be a bit dead <holstein> mailing list are more active <raonyguimaraes> not yet, I will subscribe where I can see what's going on ? <holstein> ScottL is who you need to talk to <raonyguimaraes> ok thank you <holstein> let me get some links going <holstein> raonyguimaraes: are you already a buntu dev? <raonyguimaraes> not really, I just use ubuntu for a long time and decided to start helping... <holstein> cool <holstein> i was trying to decide what i can link you <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio <raonyguimaraes> let me take a look <holstein> you'll want <holstein> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel <holstein> maybe the users list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users <holstein> raonyguimaraes: welcome :) <holstein> might take a bit to figure out what going on <holstein> ScottL is quite active <holstein> if you can hang for a bit, or check back <holstein> raonyguimaraes: you might also want to find and meet falktx <holstein> the KXstudio guy <raonyguimaraes> I saw his blog and some video he made as well <raonyguimaraes> thank you holstein ... <raonyguimaraes> Where I can read the e-mails that were sent ? <holstein> http://ramirezanna@example.org/ maybe? <holstein> raonyguimaraes: i wouldnt sweat it too much <holstein> hopefully we'll make some new news soon :) <raonyguimaraes> great <ScottL> raonyguimaraes, hi, i wanted to touch base with you to say that i am very interested and excited that you want to help us :) <raonyguimaraes> cool man :) hope I can help ! <ScottL> raonyguimaraes, unfortunately, i need to go to bed already, but i will be around for most of the day tomorrow and will try to catch you then and we can talk further <raonyguimaraes> all right ... I will be online tomorrow and almost 24h this week ! <raonyguimaraes> Good night! <holstein> w00t :) <ScottL> i found bugs for the "drop to sigterm" during installation and for a kernel panic during installation that i have been experiencing trying to get a natty installation so i can fix the "unity/gnome-session" issue <ScottL> hi rlameiro , how are you this morning? <rlameiro> sleepy but great <rlameiro> its raining... I hate when it rains so much but welll, what to do <rlameiro> :D <ScottL> previous couple of days had been raining for us, i'm glad today wasn't since i took my daughter to school this morning * ScottL is taking a week of vacation this week :) <rlameiro> ScottL: great <ScottL> hi Raony, i have some time right now to talk when you are ready <ScottL> rlameiro, yeah, i'm hoping to make some progress for natty _if-i-can-get-a-working-install-of-natty-running_ :madface: <rlameiro> yeah <rlameiro> I will try to test some firewire also. lets see what happens <ScottL> rlameiro: holstein and ailo have been working on it pretty diligently, you might talk to them first and see where they are at <ScottL> apparently firewire has been broken since maverick :( <rlameiro> yeah. i need to test it with my edirol <rlameiro> My usb card is broken in maverick too, didnt had a chanve to test it on natty yet <rlameiro> *chance <ScottL> i also think that the tasksel is broken (or at least fracture) in natty as well <ScottL> from what i've seen it looks like there are more choices than were intended :( <ScottL> more fun to work through :/ <ailo> It would be great to get to the bottom of that. The picture I have so fat is, that firewire does not work on either Maverick or Natty without Aboganis -lowlatency kernel for Natty. <ailo> (..so far* is,..) <ailo> But, I suppose the generic kernel on Natty is not to be recommended anyway,
{'channel': 'ubuntustudio-devel', 'month': 1}