#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-01 <ojwb> morning <chilts> morning, just <ajmitch> still 15 minutes * chilts should have left it longer :) <ajmitch> try for 11:59 tomorrow <ojwb> morning <ojwb> well, that was 9 minutes well spent <ajmitch> I'm sure <chilts> heh <snail> mÅrena, e hoa <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morena * ibeardslee books out the next hour to give ubuntuone on his workstation a beating <mwhudson> motning * ajmitch wishes his laptop didn't fail so badly at resuming at times <ajmitch> sitting there, thrashing away even though only about 500MB of RAM is used <ibeardslee> yay .. forgot about killing the Ubuntu One key in Seahorse <chilts> morning <mwhudson> ubuntu one actually works for me in natty <ibeardslee> works now <ibeardslee> the reinstall I did must have broken it <ajmitch> mwhudson: you got around the problem of having 100k+ files queued up? <mwhudson> ajmitch: i uninstalled everything and deleted all local state <ajmitch> that's a painful way to fix it <thumper> morning <hads> Morning <ajmitch> so it's world ipv6 day coming up next week, how many NZ ISPs support it yet? <mwhudson> telstra claim they are working on it <ajmitch> so maybe in another 2-3 years <ajmitch> snap said that there wasn't native ipv6 over adsl due to the chorus network <ajmitch> though it's not really that useful at the moment, it'd still be nice to have eventually :) <mwhudson> i <mwhudson> i'm sure my router wouldn't know what ipv6 was if it poked it in the eye #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-02 <thumper> I have one new netgear router that does do ipv6 <thumper> but the ADSL routre I'm not so sure about <ibeardslee> morning <zcat[1]> pirateparty.org.nz has IPv6 address 33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99ab4 -- Just in time for world ipv6 day.. <ibeardslee> awww that's nice for them <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> ibeardslee: what's interesting is that catalyst is listed as having AAAA records for mail, but not for the website :) <ibeardslee> something we are working on <ibeardslee> something about keepalived not supporting ipv6 <ibeardslee> or whatever the firewall loadbalancer is <ajmitch> I guessed there'd be a reason for it <ajmitch> looking at the website for it, ipv6 support was added only a year ago, so probably not in a stable debian release <Atamira> mornin <snail> W: Failed to fetch http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jaunty-backports/main/source/Sources.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 507-653-2812 8080] <snail> that's not an issue at my end, right? <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> um <mwhudson> jaunty is dead isn't it? <thumper> morning <thumper> mwhudson: I hope so <mwhudson> having jaunty-backports in your sources.list sounds unfortunate, even more so if you're not running jaunty * snail hates it when it's all their fault <snail> interesting http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/06/github-has-passed-sourceforge.php <ajmitch> interesting to see ruby & python at the top of the github languages list #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-03 <ojwb> snail: though perhaps people commit more often with git * ojwb seems to <ojwb> if you want to cherry pick, it's easier to combine small commits than have to split a big one <mwhudson> ajmitch: the second highest on codeplex is "xml schema", where do i sign up to get me some of that? <snail> ojwb: encouraging people to commit more often being a good thing, of course... <ojwb> sure (well up to a point) <ojwb> but that exaggerates the popularity of github <snail> mwhudson: i think what that means is SOAP or some other random XML based protocol <snail> ojwb: perhaps <ojwb> clearly it's very popular even taking that into accont <ojwb> account <chilts> you gotta also wonder if that takes into account the 25,000 package mirror of CPAN <chilts> and of course, lots of people cloning each others repos <chilts> it's kinda like LOCs <chilts> or 'number of tests passed' <chilts> or 'cups of tea drank today' as a sign of productivity <chilts> :) <ojwb> i get the impression that "forking and commiting a few changes" is github's answer to "starting a new project on sourceforge" <chilts> yeah, they always talk about the number of repos, which isn't the same as the number of projects <ajmitch> mwhudson: I don't think you want 'some of that' <mwhudson> ojwb: omg yes * ojwb wonders whether the selection criteria for that study were "the sites we could think of" or if they attempted to determine sites which were of a comparable size <ojwb> launchpad isn't there, and seems reasonably popular <mwhudson> launchpad would be difficult because many of the branches there are imports <ojwb> there's a fair few mirrors on github <ojwb> xapian has one for example <Bacta> Hi all #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-04 <Ubuntunz> sup <zapzupnz> nowt, by the looks. heh <Ubuntunz> http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_187722311276617&ap=1 <Ubuntunz> Anyone need a copy of linux? (Any distro) <Atamira> im good thanks <Atamira> if i dont have a copy, i can get it <elky> Ubuntunz, You really shouldn't make a habit of spamming people in private queries. #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-05 * ajmitch wonders how many people were spammed <Atamira> i was <zapzupnz> i wasn't <zapzupnz> I did get VERSIONed, though, I see <G> ajmitch: I was spammed as well, but was easy enough to just /win close * hads too #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-06 <Atamira> /clear <user_> Is anyone having a problem with ubuntu 11.04 where it randomly freezes? <user_> No input device works, any audio playing loops over and over, have to restart <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning <ajmitch> yay, mon^Wtuesday <mwhudson> indeed <snail> talofa <ajmitch> it feels far too close to the shortest day of the year, the sun is still barely rising over the hill <snail> a user called 'Ubuntunz' sent me a private message asking whether i needed a linux distro... <ajmitch> snail: I think everyone got that <ajmitch> you'd think that people who were on IRC in an ubuntu channel probably wouldn't need one... <snail> ajmitch: they probably spammed everyone in every linux channel <ajmitch> & he pasted a link to a facebook group for ubuntu in NZ, with 1 member <thumper> morning <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-07 <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning <ibeardslee> morning <hads> Mornin <chilts> morning <thumper> morning <chilts> thumper: how's Dunedin at this time of year? <chilts> cold or wet yet? <thumper> cold <thumper> not so wet <chilts> lots of rain here recently <ajmitch> sunny for now, at least <chilts> not so cold <chilts> anyone ever used Sympa: https://www.sympa.org/ <mwhudson> morning <mwhudson> it's been very warm in wellington for the time of year lately <ibeardslee> chilts: no .. but have you looked at http://groupserver.org/ ? <chilts> I'll take a look, though this is something that's already being used and I have to make additions and fixes to it :) <chilts> so we can't really switch <ibeardslee> ahh ok. <chilts> ah, I think Francois is using that for libravatar <ibeardslee> kiwi software <chilts> far out, it uses Zope! <chilts> :( <ajmitch> chilts: don't be scared... :) <ajmitch> how much of zope does it use? <chilts> I am ... though I know my thoughts of zope are tarnished with having to use Plone once <chilts> I know reed likes Zope <ajmitch> it's not so bad if it's just using a few zope components <chilts> not sure I like the way it downloads all the dependencies (all 30MB) of them, into it's own little virtual world <chilts> I guess DEbian/Ubunut packages would fix that <chilts> gah, bad typing <mwhudson> oh, that's richard's thing isn't it? <mwhudson> it's pretty zope i think <chilts> Richard? <mwhudson> richard waid <mwhudson> i used to share an office with him <chilts> cool <chilts> mwhudson: you're in Welly aren't you? coming to the PerlMongers quiz next Tuesday? <chilts> it's not about Perl (if you're worried) <chilts> it's just about Open Source in general <mwhudson> um <mwhudson> maybe? <chilts> :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-08 <fmarier> how about the "mwhudson chilts & fmarier" quiz team? <mwhudson> fmarier: sounds good :) <chilts> sounds good! :) <chilts> mwhudson: I thought you were a maybe? <mwhudson> chilts: i am getting better at making decisions, perhaps <chilts> you just needed a few morning coffees to help you through :) <mwhudson> funnily enough, i had my first proper coffee (i.e. not decaf) for a good few days this morning <chilts> I had a decaf this morning, but been drinking tea since <thumper> mwhudson: I thought you had given up? <thumper> mwhudson: or is coffee now a periodic thing? <mwhudson> thumper: not given up, just trying not to be addicted <mwhudson> uds drove a nail through that for a while <fmarier> mwhudson: how long is the withdrawal period if you go cold turkey? <lifeless> 2 weeks IIRC <mwhudson> fmarier: maybe 4-5 days? <mwhudson> i think it depends how much you're drinking when you quit <mwhudson> for me, hours 48-72 ish were the worst <lifeless> ah, up to a week claims instant google results * ajmitch can stop with caffeine any time he wants, honest <mwhudson> tailing off gradually seems to work though and is a lot less unpleasant <mwhudson> one cup a day for a week, one cup every other day for a week, one cup every three days for the next and then stopping seems to work <snail> mwhudson: that solution requires three weeks of self control, and this is an addiction... <chilts> it took me 2.5 days to get over stopping coffeine <chilts> the headache on the 1st day was worst, then it was better, then fine <chilts> I sleep much better these days <ibeardslee> .. I wonder if that's why I get a headache over the weekend <chilts> ibeardslee: yes, that used to happen to me all the time <chilts> then I realised what it was <chilts> you probably sleep in longer, or get coffee later <ibeardslee> so the solution is a coffee on saturday and sunday morning <chilts> heh ;) <chilts> I hate code comments like 'File exists?', when the operation they are doing is "is readable" <ajmitch> & then the code explodes when it can't open the file due to permissions? <mwhudson> bonus points for using access(2) to do the checks <chilts> there are some interesting things in this code, like a global $param being stuffed all over the place <chilts> I also hate files which are named john.pm and have 'package Lucy;' in them ... it's very confusing <ibeardslee> you think that john.retard would be more appropriate? <chilts> indeed <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <snail> morning <thumper> morning <hads> Morning <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-09 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning * ajmitch really doesn't like it when the 7:45 AM bus doesn't show & having to wait at the bus stop for another 20 minutes <chilts> morning <ojwb> morning <hads> Morning <Atamira> mornin <Atamira> hate having to get to the bus stop 20 mins early, and the bus comes even earlier than that <Atamira> and then the next one is late * ojwb has concluded it's simpler just not to leave the house ever <thumper> morning <thumper> TGIF! <ibeardslee> ojwb: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> oh that is just sad ibeardslee <ojwb> sadly accurate #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-10 <shockingbehavur> what's wammu like....when it works with hsdpa modems <shockingbehavur> what's wammu like....when it works with hsdpa modems <Atamira> i havent used it <shockingbehavur> ok...who's familiar with wammu <Atamira> you should ask in the #ubuntu channel instead <shockingbehavur> ok...this may take all night through american soil <Ubuntunz> does anyone need a copy of any linux distro? <Ubuntunz> I can download and send Via Fastpost any linux distro, I can also download things you might need but dont have the bandwidth for, any requests Email me now at rhonda96@example.net your request can be processed straight away there is always someone on stand by to recieve email alerts. <ajmitch> silly spam <Atamira> mornin #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-11 <ojwb> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-12 <ojwb> aww, NZ has slipped to 5th in the active DDs/population rankings: http://www.perrier.eu.org/weblog/2011/06/12#devel-countries-201106-3 <zapzupnz> That's a shame. But nevermind. <ibeardslee> morning <lifeless> ugh, so it is <ibeardslee> on the plus side ... yay work day! <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morningz <mwhudson> morning <Atamira> mornin <thumper> morning <ojwb> morning <Atamira> ahh, Mondays <Atamira> dont you just love Mondays? <ojwb> seems bettter than sunday to me <hads> Ug. A bug overwrote part of my postfix main.cf <mwhudson> ouch <mwhudson> i found that the reason mail wasn't going anywhere was that i didn't have postfix installed on the new laptop <hads> Restored from backups, pretty nasty bug though. <hads> Luckily it didn't break mail completely, just removed some anti-spam configs. Happened on three VMs <chilts> I had a good time with SPF and Reverse DNS records last week <chilts> once I got Amazon to put in a reverse DNS record to my domain, almost all the email started to be accepted (Hotmail, Paradise, Vodafone, iHug and others) <chilts> it was nice seeing a clean Postfix log again, instead of all the status-deferred or status-rejected <chilts> status-sent is nice :D <chilts> hads: was that due to an upgrade or update or something else? #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-13 <hads> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/715056 <chilts> dovecot overwrote your postfix.cf??? <hads> Yeah, only if you're using dovecot-postfix though <chilts> ah, ok <hads> It eases setting up single sign on between postfix SASL and dovecot <chilts> hmm, etckeeper ... I must look that up <ibeardslee> chilts: it gets used on some servers here <ibeardslee> the ones that aren't puppetised <chilts> yeah, it seems it might be quite interesting ... I should try puppet again though, it annoyed me last time I tried it :) <ajmitch> having your config be changed from a security update would be a bit worrying <hads> Indeed. <hads> Wasn't super impressed. <ajmitch> backups are great, but having things break while you rush around in a panic trying to restore configs isn't :) <hads> Yeah, thankfully it didn't actually stop mail working for me, I see from the bug it has for others. <hads> I just was confused as to why I started getting more spam again. <ajmitch> so is the security update itself still there? * ajmitch is using dovecot+exim, so wasn't bitten by this <hads> I believe so yes. <hads> Fix is in proposed, to be released on the 16th <chilts> who uses what to store passwords (encrypted)? plain GPG? something on top of that? * chilts is looking for a solution to his password problem, but only wishes the solution was OpenID :) <chilts> oh, a command line client wins as far as I'm concerned <ibeardslee> chilts: looking for something solid myself .. pref with an android client that can be syncd in some way <mwhudson> chilts, fmarier: still on for the quiz tomorrow? * chilts is <chilts> ibeardslee: I'm less worried about Android, but just something nice <fmarier> mwhudson: yup <mwhudson> cool <fmarier> we're gonna kick arse <mwhudson> heh <mwhudson> did you set the questions or something? :) <ibeardslee> your own? <fmarier> no, i'm just trying to convince myself and build up some confidence :) <chilts> this would be ideal -> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/54c218.txt <chilts> or something along those lines <chilts> I might have to make one I guess <chilts> there must be _something_ that already does this ... am looking through a load of packages to see what they do <fmarier> chilts: i use pwsafe and it does exactly that <fmarier> however it has just been removed from Debian, so i need to find a new one <chilts> ah right <fmarier> on my list of packages to have a look at: revelation, yapet, mypasswordsafe, pwman3, zsafe and keysafe <chilts> what I also want is something which saves each password (site) in a different file, then I can check them in to git and push to a couple of repos (for safekeeping) <fmarier> let me know if you find a good one <chilts> will do <fmarier> ah, then you might have to write your own, i'm not aware of a git-based one <chilts> I'll look at those first too ... keepassx doesn't seems to be what I want either <chilts> well, not git based, just so I can put things into git <chilts> that's all <ibeardslee> pview? <chilts> ie. it does things on files in the cwd, rather than in some hidden file in ~/ <chilts> ibeardslee: isn't that a Catalyst thing? <fmarier> pwsafe was just one file. i rsync it with s3 everyday <chilts> yeah, that sounds like a decent idea <ibeardslee> chilts: might be <chilts> and it encryped with GPG? <ibeardslee> `apt-cache search pview` isn't useful <ojwb> matches "MapViewOfFile" - helpful <chilts> first version -> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/59248b <chilts> text version -> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/59248b.txt <chilts> it obviously doesn't do anything yet, but any comments about the interface are appreciated! :) <chilts> it will find and save all files in the local dir ... people can back it up however they like then (git, S3, rsync, unison, etc) <chilts> cool, Crypt33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abGPG will come in handy <chilts> ok, I have it encrypting some text, now to make it a file <chilts> well, it's _saving_ a file, but I want to read from a new file made by $EDITOR <chilts> Fil33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abTemp wins, so does Fil33ec:265c:71fe:e26d:2682:4ec2:aaa1:99abSlurp :) <chilts> nice ... "./pwkeeper show linkedin" now shows the contents of linkedin.gpg (after prompting for your passphrase and echoing it as *s) :D <chilts> am now on the way to the program I want :D <chilts> I should get back to work <ibeardslee> fark they are rockin down chch way <ojwb> yeah, 5.5 and 6.0 in one day <Atamira> a friends just got his power back on (friend in chch) <fmarier> chilts: let me know once you've put your pwkeeper somewhere. it seems to be far better than everything else that's in Debian unfortunately <fmarier> one thing that might be nice however would be to hash the filenames for the password places <fmarier> otherwise it reveals what accounts you have <fmarier> so i guess you'd need a hash of the site + the master password or something like that <Bacta> Hai all <snail> mÅrena all <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <hads> Mornin <chilts> fmarier: yeah, good idea ... but how would you know which file each password is in? <chilts> I mean, so far my plan is to have a file/account, but maybe your 1-file thing works better <chilts> oopse <chilts> morning * chilts slaps wrist <ajmitch> chilts: how could you? <chilts> sorry, my bad * ajmitch watches the load average slowly climb <ajmitch> iotop can be a useful tool at times <chilts> fmarier: so you mean something like md5sum('site' + 'password')? <chilts> I wasn't going to have a master password, just your GPG one <chilts> maybe a file called 'sites.gpg' will hold the definitive list ... yeah, I like that idea * chilts completes 'pwkeeper list', 'pwkeeper new' and 'pwkeeper show' :) <chilts> it's all working ... just lots more to do <ajmitch> so how different is this from keepass? <chilts> encryption is GPG, not AES or Twofish <chilts> there isn't a single database, it's all in different files <chilts> it's not cross platform - well, it's command line based for a start :) <chilts> it's just an idea that sprouted yesterday and seems to be growing on me, 'tis all <chilts> a personal itch as it were <snail> chilts: encryption is not GPG; GPG is a framework into which encryption algorithms like AES and Twofish fit. <chilts> yeah, fair enough <chilts> I forgot about that :) <chilts> it's one of those wonderful things about not worrying about details since something else takes care of it for me :D <Atamira> morning all <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-14 <fmarier> ajmitch: keepassx is graphical, pwkeeper isn't (so it works when you ssh into your box) <ojwb> keep ass x? <mwhudson> morning <ojwb> sorry, I meant morning <mwhudson> fmarier: do you know what time the doors open for the quiz tonight? <fmarier> mwhudson: not sure, the quiz rhonda96@example.net. at what time were you thinking of coming? <mwhudson> dunno, they are working on the power here from 5:30 <mwhudson> so i need to be out of here a bit before that i guess <mwhudson> i'm happy to sit in a bar or a cafe for a bit but if people are going to be milling around from a bit earlier than 6, i thought i might as well join them <chilts> I was gonna get there a little earlier, but gotta head to a shop or two first <fmarier> there should be a few people there 10 minutes before 6 or so, I'd say <mwhudson> ok <snail> BTW: if anyone ever needs anything like archivists toolkit, use archivists toolkit. it's what it says on the tin and it's made of awesome <ajmitch> snail: but what is it? :) <chilts> yeah, I was wondering the same :) <snail> it's a toolkit for archivists. <chilts> ah, gotchyer <chilts> now I get it :D <ajmitch> can't say I'm familiar with what archivists require <chilts> toolkits I think <snail> the relavent TLAs are XML, LOC, EAD and EAC (plus mysql, java, jdbc) <snail> ajmitch: you don't want to know what they require, believe me,. what you want to know is how to satisfy them... <chilts> that's a different story though <chilts> nsfw etc <chilts> :-p <ajmitch> we won't go there <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning * ajmitch wishes he had more RAM in this desktop <ajmitch> seeing 0k swap free worries me a little :) <ibeardslee> ouch <ajmitch> it's mostly because I've got windows 7 & a couple of debian VMs running in virtualbox <ibeardslee> just increase your windows swap file <ibeardslee> .. or buy more ram <ajmitch> windows 7 is in virtualbox <ibeardslee> ahh <ajmitch> & this computer has 8GB of RAM :) <ajmitch> I'm not going to run windows as my main desktop, I just use it for testing stuff * ajmitch should see if virtualbox 4.0.x is in a PPA for lucid <ibeardslee> it is <ibeardslee> or at least in the oracle repo <ibeardslee> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads <ajmitch> right, I'll probably use the one from debfx's PPA, since he's the debian/ubuntu maintainer <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> how did the quiz go? <chilts> ibeardslee: it went well, very well :) <chilts> quite a fun evening, pretty funny at times <chilts> donovan did a great job with the questions <hads> Yay, inbox zero for a few moments <hads> Morning <ibeardslee> I have on odd occasions had a zero inbox .. but then I start the mail server and that changes <chilts> doesn't your mail server always run? <ibeardslee> on odd occasions it has stopped <chilts> crazy <chilts> ok, chatting in another channel about articles and books, for example "Rebel Code", "Just for Fun: The Story of an Accidental Revolutionary", "In the beggining was the command line" ... anyone got any other good/interesting/classic FOSS articles/books? <chilts> "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" <chilts> etc <ajmitch> the GNU manifesto? <chilts> is it somewhere on here? http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html <ajmitch> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html <chilts> heh, just found it ... thanks :) <chilts> cool, excellent ... was just chatting about all these things, so I think a blog post is breweing :) <chilts> must be something on here too -> http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/ <chilts> ooh, "The Mythical Man Month", though that's not really open source <ajmitch> esr is such an interesting figure <chilts> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/index.html <- I guess that would be included in such a list <elky> ajmitch, whereby interesting you mean "omg omg, where is the industrial strength brain bleach"? <ajmitch> elky: pretty much :) #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-15 <snail> on ubuntu, what's the best way to find out (a) all the subdomains of a domain and (b) all of the names being mapped to an ip address? <snail> ideally without a ping-storm... <mwhudson> host -t axfr $domain? <mwhudson> lots of servers refuse to give you that though <ojwb> in general, it's not easy to do either AFAIK <snail> nice. my dns for freenode has been flaky, I file a bug and get told "No changes have been made but the firewall has a problem with looking up irc.freenode.net at the moment so I've added all individual IP addresses to the rule allowing xchat" i don't want to know how they're messing with dns that's breaking dns pooling, but hardcoding them doesn't seem like the right approach... <ojwb> hmm, it's not a great plan <ojwb> someone needs to remember to remove the hack or else they'll be returning the wrong answers when freenode dns changes <ojwb> unless they firewall DNS traffic, you could just stick "nameserver 507-653-2812" and "nameserver 507-653-2812" in /etc/resolv.conf <ojwb> those are google's public dns servers <ojwb> downside is you're giving google data, which some may not like <mwhudson> doesn't that make CDNs rather less useful too? <mwhudson> oh, they're anycast <snail> ojwb: i would try that, but opting out of our organisational infrastructure just means that i discover the problems for the first time on one of my users computers... <mwhudson> although ping is 171ms so they can't be that close <ojwb> mwhudson: yeah, they're mostly handy to know for when you have problems getting the local DNS to work <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> ibeardslee: you either get into work far too early, or are on irc from home <ibeardslee> ajmitch: at work <ibeardslee> travel time is easier earlier <ajmitch> very true <ibeardslee> less time sitting in a bus or the car <ajmitch> partly why I'm in at work before 8 most days <ajmitch> being in a crowded bus isn't fun <ibeardslee> even if it is harder to get up earlier <ibeardslee> it does mean that I can also get away earlier .. but I think I need more practise at that * ajmitch is usually awake more than early enough <ajmitch> I'm often away just after 5, which is nice <ibeardslee> I've deliberately arranged the personal trainer sessions at the gym for 5pm * ajmitch can get stuff done early in the morning before those pesky clients start calling <ibeardslee> so I HAVE to get away earlier <ibeardslee> but the days I don't have the sessions I get carried away <ajmitch> staying until 6 or 7? <ibeardslee> hardly ever 7, sometimes 6, often after 5 <ajmitch> darn, looks like air new zealand has been cancelling flights for the lower south island <ibeardslee> 7:30 -> 5pm = 9.5 hours - 1/2 for lunch .. I really should timesheet a bit more time <ajmitch> makes for a long day at times :) <snail> morning <mwhudson> morning <ibeardslee> so the big news of the day is MS withdrawing their XML document patent in NZ <ajmitch> interesting <ajmitch> was this a patent that had not yet been granted? <ibeardslee> they were filed and the NZOSS had opposed the first one and it seems were preparing to oppose the 2nd <ibeardslee> no had opposed, and were heading towards a hearing <ajmitch> I wonder what prompted the withdrawal <ibeardslee> nto sure of the exact details, but NZOSS and others (especially Matthew Holloway) must have had some clear objections <snail> ajmitch: as i understand it, a withdrawl is infinitely better than a negative ruling, since rulings join the body of case law <ajmitch> snail: right, I'm unfamiliar with how legal precedents should work in NZ :) <chilts> morning <Atamira> moring <Atamira> morning <thumper> morning * thumper needs coffee * Atamira needs breakfast * ibeardslee needs a whisky and a lie down #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-16 * chilts need lunch * chilts use primitive language <ibeardslee> morning <snail> mÅrena <chilts> morning <chilts> I guess people saw this already -> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6f1dafc8beb84f2ac <chilts> funsies for a friday <Atamira> morning <hads> Oooh ouch, deleting /usr <mwhudson> morning <hads> Morning <ajmitch> morning <ajmitch> such a simple bug there... <hads> I wish something would stop generating /etc/motd.tail <hads> Removing them all for third time annoyed me enough to go and look for a bug. 659738 - looks like it's in proposed finally. <thumper> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-17 <ojwb> chilts: are you aware of S5: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/ <ibeardslee> hads: that's a yay <chilts> ojwb: yeah, saw that a while ago ... this was just a little play thing and thought I'd throw it out there if people wanted to use it <chilts> after the conversation last month or so about the different ways of doing slides #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-18 <chilts> morning * chilts creates confusion <Atamira> afternoon * Atamira creates more confusion #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-19 <ibeardslee> morning <chilts> morning <ibeardslee> I have the feeling I'm not going to complete the day at work :( <snail> mÅrena <Atamira> good morning all <chilts> ibeardslee: s'up? you feeling ok? <ibeardslee> feeling icky <ibeardslee> throat, nose etc <chilts> sucks :( <Atamira> whats that stuff they advertising atm? <Atamira> codral? <Atamira> suppose to make you look and feel normal <Atamira> even tho you sick as a dog <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> ohh if it can make me look normal .. it could be a winner <chilts> is that with or without a cold? :-p <ibeardslee> shush <mwhudson> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-20 <ibeardslee> righto this me giving up at work for the day <Atamira> get better soon ibeardslee <Atamira> drink lots of ginger tea <ajmitch> yay, chorus connected DSL when they said they would <lifeless> \o/ <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morena <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <ibeardslee> urg <thumper> ibeardslee: still unwell? <ibeardslee> a bit worse that yesterday <ajmitch> so irritating to be installing packages & switch to another virtual desktop, expecting that they're actually installing <ajmitch> but no, there's a debconf prompt up <ibeardslee> in a way that's better than prompts from a different virtual desktop popping up over the top of what you are doing, and taking focus <ajmitch> certainly, though this is an upgrade via ssh <ajmitch> so it'd be hard for it to grab focus <hads> A desktop notification tunneled back would be fancy <ajmitch> that can be done <ajmitch> I know that some people have notifications working when using irssi in screen on a remote host <hads> Yeah I've seen that too, quite nifty <hads> Integration with the indicators would probably be better for me, I'm away from my computer so often that I miss notifications. <hads> And with that, I have to step away. <ajmitch> using the messaging menu? <ibeardslee> I sometimes get a sound notification from irssi running via ssh <ibeardslee> confusing at times .. because of the 'sometimes' .. maybe I just don't recognise the othertimes <chilts> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-21 <snail> mÅrena koutou <hads> Yay, server went down for more RAM and disk, DNS failover worked correctly and everything back up and running with no issues. <Hoggs> Well DNS is a pretty easy thing to make redundant :p <hads> Yeah I wasn't so much thinking of the DNS but the web application and replication on top of that. <Hoggs> hads: Oh, you mean you had a script automatically update DNS records to another webserver? <hads> I didn't write the DNS update side of things (using a hosted DNS service), just the replication bits. <hads> But yeah, site running on multiple servers with failover DNS records <Hoggs> ah, neat <Hoggs> Where do you host? <ajmitch> morning <snail> mÅrena e hoa <chilts> morning <Atamira> kia orana <ibeardslee> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-22 <ajmitch> morning <snail> mÅrena <chilts> morning <chilts> I just noticed that lots of programs are now putting their config into ~/config/ instead of literring ~/ <chilts> anyone know if this is becoming a bit of a standard? <chilts> that would be cool if so, since then I could put that in Git easily (though I already have my dotfiles in Git, that would be easier) <chilts> littering :) <ajmitch> .config is a standard, yes <chilts> oh right ... maybe I should start using it <ajmitch> as is .local/share/ <chilts> I usually just do something like ~/.<programname>(rc|cfg|ini)? <ajmitch> XDG standard from freedesktop.org, I think <chilts> so now I'll do ~/.config/...etc... <chilts> sweet, thanks :) <chilts> and ~/.local/share/ would be for what purpose? I see it has a 'Trash' in it (that'll never take off) :D <ajmitch> I know that ~/.local/share/applications is used for .desktop files <ajmitch> the other main one used is ~/.cache, not as important as the others <mwhudson> fmarier, chilts: drinks next week? <chilts> yeah, I'd be keen :) <chilts> I haven't had a beer in 6 months though ... so not sure either what I'd drink or if I did, how long I'd last :) <mwhudson> other beverages are available <mwhudson> (i imagine) <thumper> morning <Atamira> morena #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-23 <ibeardslee> morning <Atamira> how you feeling today ibeardslee ? <ibeardslee> Atamira: more alive ... although a wee big laggy <Atamira> but on the mend, which is good <ibeardslee> it would ahve been a bit easier if my Nook hadn't crashed last week <Atamira> lol <Atamira> paperbooks are good then <ibeardslee> definitely one plus for them <chilts> anyone seen this before: http://trisquel.info/ <chilts> I just stumbled across it ... never heard of it before now :) <chilts> s'pose there are so many distributions these days <ojwb> yes, I've heard of it <ajmitch> what's new, special & different about it? <ojwb> nothing I could really see <ojwb> just seems to be debian with the name filed off really <ojwb> http://packages.trisquel.info/ look familiar? <ajmitch> http://packages.trisquel.info/taranis/cli-mono/ <-- versions look familiar? <ojwb> oh, I think it was mentioned on #debian-devel - someone pointed out they've patched it to hide the maintainer in changelogs <ojwb> ajmitch: why would the versions on mono packages look familiar? <ajmitch> the -0ubuntu1 <ajmitch> actually most of the versions on 'slaine' look identical to what's in ubuntu maverick, down to the debian revision <ojwb> ah, i'll stop feeling offended then <ajmitch> cli/mono is just what I picked as an example because I'm familiar with the versions <ojwb> ubuntu does at least acknowledge what it is derived from <ajmitch> buried deep in the website somewhere <ojwb> actually,these days there's an "Ubuntu and Debian" link on the front page <ojwb> though it's hardly huge <ajmitch> ah, down the bottom <ajmitch> I was looking under 'project' <hads> What is it about the .info TLD that instantly makes things seem odd. <ajmitch> it looks cheap & tacky? <ajmitch> though not as bad as .biz <hads> The ICANN has .cheezburger posts on Twitter the other day made me giggle. <ajmitch> that's just painful <hads> Yeah, selling any old TLD seems like a silly idea <ajmitch> at $185k, it seems like a great idea for ICANN <ajmitch> they're not really the ones running the root nameservers, so it's not going to be a huge cost to them <hads> Indeed <hads> Money for nothing * ojwb wonders what the pretty much instant revenue from big companies grabbing their name in a new TLD is <ojwb> i guess it diminishes with each new one <ajmitch> the new TLDs are meant to be registered trademarks, rather than generic TLDs <ojwb> so they're basically just selling domains at the top level, not TLDs in the current sense <ojwb> go to http://microsoft./ rather than http://microsoft.com/ <ajmitch> big, expensive domains <ajmitch> http://microsoft./ likely won't work very well because people will forget the trailing . <ojwb> well, not if you're a global company <ajmitch> there's been a long discussion over this on the nanog mailing list this week <ojwb> $185K is probably comparable to the costs of another employee <ojwb> so multiple 3 saved characters by the number of employees by the number of times they type it... <ojwb> multiply even <ajmitch> though $185k is just the start <ojwb> hmm, I wonder how much setting up a new country costs <mwhudson> turns out to be quite hard i think <mwhudson> http://www.sealandgov.org/ etc <ojwb> seems likely, or we'd have more of them <ibeardslee> morning <snail> mÅrena koutou <snail> with respect to these new domains, what I want is a mailing forwarding service in .xxx. I think I don't want to talk to anyone who has a problem with things in the .xxx domain, and as I'm an adult, it counts as an adult service <chilts> morning <mwhudson> morning <thumper> morning <chilts> anyone lunching in Wgtn? <chilts> I know it's not yet time, but I was just thinking of my tummy :) <ajmitch> morning <Atamira> morning <ibeardslee> chilts: doable .. the rice and tuna in my drawer isn't that appealing .. although neither is spending more than the <>$5 that it costs <chilts> not sure what you can get out for $5, unless we go to the supermarket and get rice and tuna? :) <chilts> but I am keen <chilts> (on some kind of nurishment) <ibeardslee> yeah .. happy to take a couple of steps up in budget <chilts> any suggestions? <chilts> see if fmarier wants to come as well? <ibeardslee> fmarier: ^^ <mwhudson> subway is an alright option if you don't want to spend much money * mwhudson is working at home today though <ibeardslee> if I'm going to wander out for lunch .. I'd aim a bit higher than that #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-24 <fmarier> chilts: ibeardslee: yeah, i'm keen <chilts> shall I come over to Catalyst House and meet you outside? <ibeardslee> yeah righto <ibeardslee> what time suits <chilts> if I start heading now, it'll be 12:15 when I get there? or can come for a bit later? <ibeardslee> 12:15 is fine for me <fmarier> 12:30? <ibeardslee> that's fine as well <chilts> ok, 12:30 it is <chilts> see you both shortyl :) <chilts> short.ly * chilts wonders if that's taken <ibeardslee> see community, co-operation, collectivity <chilts> I can't be bothered looking it up, it's probably gone <ibeardslee> it works <ibeardslee> chilts: taken <chilts> :( <chilts> did anyone notice that bit.ly is now on bitly.com <ibeardslee> damn .. and so is stupid.ly <chilts> they're afraid of the Libyan government I suppose * chilts knows no facts <chilts> makes you think, if all the *.ly in the world sudden.ly disappear <ibeardslee> why have facts when gossip, conjecture and statistics give you an answer <chilts> absolute.ly <chilts> positive.ly <chilts> wellingt.in <chilts> :) <arch_nme> hi <arch_nme> see <IdleOne> lol yeah <arch_nme> hi <arch_nme> hi <ajmitch> yes, because the channel will be so busy at 6AM on a saturday... <Atamira> morning #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-25 <choel> I'm new to NZ. and I'm trying to find the best ISP. What I noticed here is that all ISP got a roof. I there any ISP that dosen't got a roof of data traffic. ? <ojwb> choel: as far as I'm aware, you either have a cap, or you pay for the data you use <ojwb> I think it's because of the higher costs of international bandwidth compared to most other places <choel> we'll either way. it's odd. europe and usa doesen't have it. <choel> so why is it so expensive here? <ojwb> there's a lot of undersea cable to get to pretty much anywhere <ojwb> which isn't true in the US or Europe <ojwb> most of the UK ones actually have a "fair use" limit if you look into the details, but it's pretty high <ojwb> not sure about other countries <ojwb> unmetered national traffic used to offered by some ISPs, but that seems to have died out sadly <ojwb> I guess it's potentially confusing that a ".nz" website could be hosted overseas, so not count as national traffic <choel> A cable from NC to Asia isnÃ¤t longer from europe to the states. <choel> isn't <choel> And even so..... satelites... <choel> just strangely more expensive here. #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-26 <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <mwhudson> morning * ajmitch doesn't like this whole thing about it being dark on a monday morning when arriving at work <ibeardslee> yeah it's not the nicest <ibeardslee> and dark when you get home? <ajmitch> yeah <ajmitch> I know it's strange, but I actually like natural light <snail> mÅrena koutou <chilts> morning <snail> I hate the way I allow people to wind me up. * ibeardslee makes a note of that <ibeardslee> for later giggles <ibeardslee> ;) <snail> Craig's North Korea comment on NZOSS-Openchat was almost certainly a troll, yet I bit... <ibeardslee> ahh <snail> now i've outed myself as a commie-loving North Korean apologist.. <ajmitch> what's that, comrade? * ajmitch is glad that he's not still subscribed to that list <ajmitch> btw, installing kcachegrind seems to make it pull in nearly a full KDE desktop unless I use --no-install-recommends, it's rather annoying :) <ibeardslee> you can set the --no-install-recommends to be the default <ajmitch> I can, but I do like to install recommended packages usually <ajmitch> in this case, it was just a bit too much <Atamira> mornin <chilts> yeah, I subscribed and unbsubscribed from that list about a week apart <chilts> 7 days was enough for me #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-27 <ibeardslee> being on the NZOSS council means I probably should be following it <snail> anyone know of any local companies willing who'll sell us a chat widget for interacting with students? maybe even a standards based one? <ibeardslee> you mean like irc? <ibeardslee> jabber? <ibeardslee> xmpp? <ajmitch> I'm guessing by widget, you want something you can use on a website? <snail> yep, video if you want to charge us lots of money <snail> yep <ibeardslee> ahh <ibeardslee> http://www.plupper.com/ <ibeardslee> that sort of thing? <snail> yep, that looks good <ibeardslee> not local though <snail> mÅrena <ibeardslee> morning <ajmitch> morning <chilts> morning <Atamira> morning <ajmitch> ibeardslee: does catalyst no longer host the nz kernel mirror? <ibeardslee> as far as I know it does <ajmitch> http://www.kernel.org/mirrors/countries/html/NZ.html <ajmitch> it's some romanian host now... <ajmitch> slightly odd, no? <ajmitch> http://ftp.catalyst.net.nz/ just has broken links <ibeardslee> according to one of the guys yesterday it was fixed yesterday .. script was looking to the wrong place <ajmitch> must be taking awhile to get updated then <ibeardslee> timClicks: re ubuntu with 1GHz and 1GB .. ouch unless you were doig little #ubuntu-nz 2011-06-28 <timClicks> ibeardslee, hrm that's what I thought <timClicks> was considering this http://www.bondandbond.co.nz/shop/computers/portable/netbooks/toshiba-nb550-00h-brown-netbook/prod110253.html <ibeardslee> the HP510x are pretty good .. give them a boost to the 2GB though <ibeardslee> Toshiba won't sell laptops with Windows <mwhudson> at least it's not an atom * ibeardslee elimintates them based on that <mwhudson> ibeardslee: i think you have a sense inversion there? <chilts> ibeardslee: /with/without/ ? <ibeardslee> Radeon graphics .. not much luck with that and Ubuntu <ibeardslee> err yes <ibeardslee> Toshiba won't sell laptops without Windows <lifeless> ibeardslee: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Toshiba <ibeardslee> timClicks: Ascent will sell the 510x without windows, with 2GB, a SSD .. and 3G <timClicks> hrm <timClicks> good to know <timClicks> thanks <lifeless> ibeardslee: not saying I like toshiba, but they will sell Ubuntu machines ;) <ibeardslee> lifeless: I suppose I should clarify .. Toshiba (in NZ) told me a while back that they would not sell laptops without Windows <ibeardslee> just because it is certified to work with something, doesn't mean they'll sell it locally with it <lifeless> ibeardslee: well that sucks <ibeardslee> I would be using Toshiba if they would sell laptops without Windows <lifeless> ibeardslee: it might be worth asking about those specific models - we don't certify stuff like this without the OEM wanting us to :) * ibeardslee is undecided on the 'political' implications of that <ibeardslee> on one hand it has been an effort to get HP to the point they will sell HP laptops and desktops without Windows licences <ibeardslee> aiming to get to the point where they actually have them in stock locally <lifeless> ibeardslee: do you do the 'gimme my windows refund' dance? <ibeardslee> if those "legacy os free" machines is split between two brands .. there'll be less inclination to stock <ibeardslee> lifeless: no, I do the I want this without paying for the windows licence dance <lifeless> yeah, I meant if/when that fails <ibeardslee> and we are at that point with HP in NZ <lifeless> cool <ajmitch> what HP models can be sold without windows at the moment? <ibeardslee> they say the business and corporate models <ibeardslee> not the 'home user' models <ajmitch> that generally makes sense <ibeardslee> actually the business and corporate models that come with Windows 7 Professional <ibeardslee> .. although the HP 510x seems to be an exception there <ibeardslee> the ascent website says "applicable to most, but not all commercial models" <ibeardslee> hmm just rereading and just in case it needs clarification ... the "we are at that point with HP in NZ" is about "without paying for the windows licence dance" <ibeardslee> sadly not the "in stock" .. they are generally still 2-3weeks leadtime <ajmitch> I wonder how many people have requested a model without windows though <ajmitch> probably not enough to keep any in stock <ibeardslee> no .. but I think that is jsut a bit more word of mouth and advertising away <ibeardslee> and getting geek FOSS fanatics to buy HP rather than other machines with the legacy os <hads> I'm a little torn about laptops, I can't seem to bring myself to buy one without a trackpoint. <ibeardslee> the elitebooks seem to have them .. but they are the pricier models * ajmitch still wants a laptop with an SSD <ajmitch> of course I'd have to justify spending that much money, which is hard :) <hads> ibeardslee: Cool, didn't realise HP did any. I'll have to look at them next time I'm in the market. <hads> ajmitch: You wouldn't regret it. <ajmitch> hads: I wouldn't, my bank account may <ajmitch> the laptop I'm using is less than 2 years old <hads> I bought my latest thinkpad with a HDD and replaced it with SSD myself because you never know what they are going to give you from factory. <ajmitch> I have too much on the hard drive to do that at the moment <hads> Just about to say that... probably be different if you needed storage but I didn't so can get the smallest for not much $ <ajmitch> ~/.Virtualbox alone is 75GB <hads> Ouch <ajmitch> what I should do if I want to get rid of windows altogether is remove one of the 2 hard drives & replace it with an SSD <hads> Mine is 3.3G <hads> (VirtualBox) <ajmitch> right, I tend to have a bit more in there, like multiple ubuntu releases, debian, windows 7 <ibeardslee> I run kvm on workstations, the netbook just isn't up to virtual machines <hads> Windows 7 would take up half of that :) <ajmitch> only 17GB :) <ajmitch> the largest is debian unstable, I do a bit of package building there <mwhudson> hads: new thinkpads come with intel ssds * mwhudson is obscenely happy with his x220, but it was the opposite of cheap <ajmitch> eye-wateringly expensive? <hads> mwhudson: Cool. Not sure what they came with when I bought mine - T400 <mwhudson> i guess no, just expensive :) <mwhudson> hads: yeah, apparently they used to not be so great <hads> I wanted to use something I had read reviews on but Intel would be fine. <mwhudson> exactly, i don't think they're top of the line drives now, but they're close enough to avoid the faff of the diy approach <lifeless> ajmitch: you can drop an SSD into your existing laptop <ajmitch> lifeless: right, at the moment I just have too much space wasted <mwhudson> i guess with usb3 and maybe thunderbolt using an external drive won't imply massive pain for too much longer <lifeless> mwhudson: thunderbolt ? <mwhudson> on and pci-e i guess <mwhudson> lifeless: new name for light peak <lifeless> oh shiny <lifeless> hmm macbook pros have it <mwhudson> lifeless: yeah, dunno if anything else is going to support them <lifeless> well, everyone that can will I guess <lifeless> is it finalised as a standard yet ? <mwhudson> there seems to be a bit of a hdmi/displayport/thunderbolt/usb3 mess going on at the moment <mwhudson> (not all mutually overlapping of course) <mwhudson> does anyone actually use esata? <ibeardslee> have you seen the disks for the macbook air? <lifeless> mwhudson: I've got an esata caddy around <hads> There's a Seagate hybrid drive around I think <hads> http://www.anandtech.com/show/3734/seagates-momentus-xt-review-finally-a-good-hybrid-hdd <lifeless> http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/index.htm <lifeless> mwhudson: 'Compatible with existing DisplayPort devices' <mwhudson> lifeless: yeah <ajmitch> hads: that could be quite fast for some workloads <lifeless> greaky <lifeless> *freaky* - it exports pcei <lifeless> bah <lifeless> pcie <hads> ajmitch: I can get that for $150 ex for you <ajmitch> for what size drive? <hads> 500GB <ajmitch> quite tempting <lifeless> hads: you work at a computer reseller? <hads> lifeless: I run an online store so have access to most of the distributors in NZ. <lifeless> hads: nice! <hads> Happy to get things for anyone here <lifeless> hads: whats your url? <ajmitch> hads: still considering whether I should get that alix board, though I have a bit less need for it now <ajmitch> lifeless: nicegear.co.nz <lifeless> cool, thanks * mwhudson suddenly thinks about routers * ajmitch ended up getting a draytek vigor dsl modem, it seems to be working fairly well <hads> Sorry, making lunch for the little fella. <mwhudson> yeah, i don't need a modem though, am on telstraclear <mwhudson> in fact i have a netgear modem i need to trademe <ajmitch> UP Speed:997161 Down Speed:20118133 SNR Margin:13 Loop Att.:8 <ajmitch> the fun of living near the exchange <ajmitch> & I like having a dsl modem that's accessible over the LAN with telnet <ibeardslee> so the most infuriating thing about installing Windows (after installing windows) is that the window control buttons are over at the top right <mwhudson> it's funny not using windows for so long <mwhudson> when you read things like "this laptop boots fast, it boots win7 in just 45 seconds" <ibeardslee> I blame an encrypted /home for my netbook being slow to get going <ajmitch> 45 seconds still seems a lot faster than my laptop booting, I'm sure <hads> I have encrypted home on tihs laptop, boot time is around 10 seconds :) <ajmitch> I also tend to suspend my laptop rather than shut it down <ojwb> restoring from suspend doesn't seem to have improved as much as
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