#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-01 <zdsl> hello <jalrnc> hello, is anyone experiencing problems with the ubuntu wiki? I'm not able to save pages after editing... preview works fine though. <GeorgeDeka> hi all <jsgotangco> wassup <jsgotangco> gimme some docteam luv <jsgotangco> hmmm <jsgotangco> i will be talking to myself <jsgotangco> at least the logs are getting this <jsgotangco> there are a lot of discussions on the list and mostly are enthusiastic about the docteam projects <jsgotangco> but how come no one is pulling docs from the existing svn <jsgotangco> i can only see very few commits t the moment and its mostly minor changes <jsgotangco> hmmm <jsgotangco> am i seeing a pattern <jsgotangco> hmmm <jsgotangco> i will check the logs first maybe something is being cooked <jsgotangco> hmm <froud> African Greetings <jsgotangco> hi froud <froud> morn <jsgotangco> i see enrico checked on things <froud> sure, he is a bit busy but we can always count on him <froud> hows your kwick guide doing <jsgotangco> froud, im committing a draft you might want to see it <froud> yeah, cool <jsgotangco> ive taken consideration of the nature of the quick guide <jsgotangco> you're right merging would be horrible <froud> good, commit often is better, that wasy we can collabortate easier <jsgotangco> im doing stuff on aboutkubuntu.xml as well but i will commit them later when i make some comments <froud> ok <jsgotangco> ill be installing qemu later so i can get screens of plain kubuntu <jsgotangco> check how it works <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, just use the livecd, it is easier and (AFAIK) looks the same <jsgotangco> hmmm <Burgundavia> thus would you start with qemu -cdrom kbuntu.iso <jsgotangco> ok i'll download it <Burgundavia> now that is very very slow <Burgundavia> my 2500+ takes about 15 minutes to boot any livecde <jsgotangco> i havent slept that much so im a bit tired i've watched the new pope <jsgotangco> http://www.wordpress.tokyotimes.org/index.php?p=518 <jsgotangco> haha <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you know how to leave a message for your svn commits? Makes it easier to say what has changed <jsgotangco> hmmm <jsgotangco> there is no such thing as than on esvn <jsgotangco> i maybe wrong <jsgotangco> wait <jsgotangco> oh ok i know how now <jsgotangco> thanks for reminding <jsgotangco> i wasnt told about doing messages on commits <Burgundavia> -m (AFAIR) on the command line <Burgundavia> sorry, I have never used esvn <Burgundavia> it must pop something up <froud> jsgotangco: when you commit you have a large text field for your message <jsgotangco> i got it on esvn now <jsgotangco> have you seen the linuxjournal article on ubuntu <froud> no link <jsgotangco> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8253 <jsgotangco> "Ubuntu's sponsor, Canonical Ltd., has the necessary funding and a history of succeeding quickly and efficiently." <froud> dunno what history that woul dbe <froud> I dont think Marks success with Thwarte should be factored here <jsgotangco> i know <jsgotangco> unless Ubuntu becomes so mainstream it becomes a Redhat in a few years <froud> And I think that people forget that it is community project sometimes <jsgotangco> but thats a big gamble <jsgotangco> yeah <jsgotangco> Ubuntu != Mark <froud> too much attention goes towhat Mark and Canonical wnat <jsgotangco> he's the hogfather though <jsgotangco> well mark's a businessman <froud> yeah, but to succeed, Ubuntu needs community acceptance <froud> and must remain with the community <Burgundavia> we use zwiki, no? <froud> no idea <jsgotangco> i believe so <Burgundavia> ok <Burgundavia> ugh <jsgotangco> i want to react on the article <jsgotangco> hehe <Burgundavia> their issue tracker sucks <jeffsch> nice to see ubuntu is growing in popularity. I guess that means the doc team will be growing too... the more users, the more people wanting to contribute <froud> yep, that is the bonus <Burgundavia> ahh, software isn't perfect yet <Burgundavia> I could scream <froud> Burgundavia: software never is <Burgundavia> spent 1/2 hour arguing with my brother about why sepearation of programs is a good thing <jsgotangco> we're growing * Burgundavia is in rant mode, please ignore <jsgotangco> but who's pulling the docs from svn <Burgundavia> then I check me email <Burgundavia> and more crap to deal with <Burgundavia> then I check my WP wathclist, more crap to deal with <Burgundavia> and then I see zwiki's issue tracker and I almost kill myself <jsgotangco> i've been reviewing the docs everyday and i rarely see big changes <jsgotangco> shouldnt we start doing more stuff now <Burgundavia> we should <Burgundavia> I have been lazy and haven't done anything * jsgotangco is doing what he can <froud> jsgotangco: I have an improved outline of the usr guide in works <jsgotangco> i mean <froud> jsgotangco: I have a gubuntu / kubuntu isnatllation guide in the works <jsgotangco> the lists looks like we're incredibly busy <froud> jsgotangco: it is to be expected <jsgotangco> but i only see few doing action <froud> expect it <froud> not many people will contribute via commits <jsgotangco> ill just keep silent and commit <froud> yes that is the way forward <froud> actions <froud> do <froud> comiit <froud> get to the finish line * Burgundavia do is better, but bitch is easier <froud> yes <jsgotangco> true <froud> I see it time and again <jsgotangco> its becoming like election time * Burgundavia is really really not having a good day, and feels the need to tell everybody about it <jsgotangco> popularity posts ugghhh <jsgotangco> i hate it <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i dont mind im having a bad time either <froud> jsgotangco: you just focus on the kwick guide <jsgotangco> froud, sure am will do this no turning back * froud hands Burgundavia a dirty hanky <Burgundavia> focus on what you are passionate about and ignore the fools (like me) <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, you're cool to me <jsgotangco> i like constructive bitching <froud> Burgundavia: how about some patches on the FAQ <froud> school run <froud> brb * Burgundavia will now shoot froud and drag the body into the river for mentioning his lazyiness <jeffsch> I am working on a style guide. The initial doc plan for it is almost done <Burgundavia> cool <jeffsch> we will need a style guide for all those new writers we'll be getting :-) * mdke reads emails <mdke> sigh <jsgotangco> right <jsgotangco> i was looking at kde documentation last night <jsgotangco> it was so clean and so professional <jsgotangco> you think the kde foundation hires people to do that? <jsgotangco> but their screenshots are so outdated i noticed <Kinnison> Morning all <jsgotangco> hi Kinnison <froud> jeffsch: commit the document <froud> jeffsch: do you have a commit account <froud> morn Kinnison , when can we expect some docs from you <jeffsch> i will commit tomorrow. I am tired and want to check it over before committing <froud> jeffsch: ok <jeffsch> I also want to make a couple of wiki pages to support discussion and decision making for the document <froud> fair enough * froud thinks jeffsch is gonna be our editor :-) <jsgotangco> weee <jsgotangco> we need that <froud> most important person on the team :-) <froud> his way or the highway <jsgotangco> we need a dictator <froud> jeffsch: what do you think <jeffsch> haha... in my dreams <jsgotangco> no a benevolent dictator <jsgotangco> hehe <froud> no I am serious <jsgotangco> or a docteam pope <jeffsch> I hope there is more than one person interested in doing that type of thing <froud> jeffsch: you wanna be editor and chief <froud> yeah but there must be a head honcho <froud> and you are the person for the job <jeffsch> i wanna be world ruler, but I can settle for editor <jsgotangco> woo <jsgotangco> its settled then <froud> Ok now you need to get an editing team that will conform to your specs <jeffsch> I was hoping to be a bit more collaborative... <froud> and ohh.... get a wip it may come in handy <jsgotangco> whips are good * froud hands jeffsch his handcuffs <froud> I think Kinnison may have some intersting toys to lend you <froud> jeffsch: it will be collaborative <froud> but I think we need a person who is in charge of it <froud> since you are doing a style guide you are th emost qualified <froud> I love my editors <froud> as every writer should <jsgotangco> i can make you coffee <jsgotangco> editors like coffee dont they <froud> Burgundavia gives great foot massages <Burgundavia> huh? <jsgotangco> just dont be like J. Jonah Jameson <Burgundavia> where did you dig up that dirt? <froud> we wont tell you want Kinnison is good at, leave it as a surprise <jsgotangco> jeffsch seems overwhelmed * Kinnison sits and gets very worried <jeffsch> my attention is wandering to The Daily Show on TV... <Kinnison> froud: Trust me, you don't want documentation from me <froud> Kinnison: oh yes we do <jsgotangco> sure we do <Kinnison> Burgundavia: back me up here <jsgotangco> sissy * froud sticks the dirty hanky in Burgundavia 's mouth * froud looks back at Kinnison <Kinnison> again I say, trust me, you don't want documentation from me <jsgotangco> you dont want an angry african eh <froud> Kinnison: why not? <froud> Kinnison: you are part of the furniture here, so may as well <jsgotangco> we can always throw Kinnison for wiki work <jsgotangco> he'd love that * Kinnison isn't very good at writing docs, I don't understand the toolchain, I dislike svn and wikis dramatically and I spend all my work hours on Launchpad and my non-work hours on running my hosting ISP and writing my own code <Kinnison> all adds up to a sucky person to give doc jobs to :-) <froud> Ah ha we have a coder <jsgotangco> what are you doing in Launchpad? <froud> Kinnison: hows your python? * jsgotangco nefarious looks as something is cooking... <Kinnison> froud: it works <froud> and jscript? <Kinnison> it doesn't <froud> Hmmm <jsgotangco> 1 of 2 ain't bad * froud thinks Kinnison could come in handy for a custom help system? * Kinnison doesn't write guis <Kinnison> If you want to look at the sorts of things I do write, look at my arch repository <Kinnison> http://arch.digital-scurf.org/ <jsgotangco> aranha, dists, ksp-tools, onak <jsgotangco> this is all klingon to me <Liz> greetings all <froud> linux chick <jsgotangco> ok i see bazaar thats one thing i only recognized <froud> howzit <jsgotangco> hi Liz <Liz> good thanks..how are you both? * froud thinks we need to give Liz some work <Kinnison> jsgotangco: aranha is my baby <jsgotangco> froud, aye <Liz> nooo..not work <Liz> heh <froud> Liz: how about the user guide <jsgotangco> Kinnison, ahh...im not to familiar with this but what does it do? <Kinnison> jsgotangco: aranha is a web app dev platform * Kinnison admits that the rewrite isn't going as quickly as he'd like though <Liz> theres more additions to make? <jsgotangco> most of the things you do are for bazaar? <Liz> i need to svn the thing first <Liz> let me go do that first <Kinnison> jsgotangco: No, I keep my code in bazaar * Kinnison has done some baz work though <froud> Liz: ok let us know when you are ready <froud> OK I am now in work mode, c ya later <jsgotangco> i see i understand now <jsgotangco> isn't aranha portuguese <jsgotangco> arachnid or something <jsgotangco> jeffsch, do you think its ok to edit global.net if i need to add some more <jsgotangco> or do i ask froud-work first <froud-work> jsgotangco: you should do so if you feel that it is warranted <Liz> ok its loading now <jsgotangco> yay <Liz> gonna go make some dinner while this is loading <Liz> bbiab <Liz> hi sivang <sivang> He Liz <sivang> Liz: 'sup? <Liz> dinner..bbiab <sivang> Liz: laterz <jeffsch> ok, I'm off to bed. cyall later. <jsgotangco> night <Liz> bbl <jsgotangco> later people im going out <froud-work> c ya <sivang> Has anyone seen enrico lately? <Burgundavia> I think he showed up yesterday <sivang> Burgundavia: eh, I see, what's up? how's documentationg going? <sivang> hey li <Liz> hey sivang <Liz> how are you? <sivang> Liz: fine, busy , but cool :) <sivang> Liz: are you going to attend UDU? <Liz> udu? <Liz> whats UDU? <Burgundavia> UbuntuDownUnder <Burgundavia> I wish I could be there <Burgundavia> dammit <Liz> oh yeah..its in sydney <Liz> im waiting for the "where, time, how much" <Liz> but so far, i havent seen anything <Burgundavia> next week <Burgundavia> free once you get there <Burgundavia> as for location see the udu wiki <Liz> ahhh..is that where it is <Liz> they are having an installfest there as well <Liz> i should volunteer * Burgundavia thinks evil thoughts about installing FC3 <Liz> okjust signed up <Liz> i dont think they realised that the 25th is anzac day down here <Burgundavia> anzac day is a holiday no? <Burgundavia> much like remembrance/veterans day? <Liz> yes <Liz> it shouldnt matter too much <Liz> sigh..between classes and it taking me an hour to get up there <Liz> its going to be a fun week <Liz> and on that note <Liz> im off to bed <Liz> nite all <mdke> evenin claude <claude> hi <claude> much traffic these days on the list <mdke> indeed <mdke> lots of words <mdke> lots of ideas too :) <claude> when you're off 2 or 3 days, it takes a lot of times to get the train :) <claude> yeah <mdke> yeah i bet <mdke> claude, gmane can be useful to follow threads <claude> for now i will be most an observer <mdke> claude, we are working on a new method for translations: we hope to get some new translations into hoary (e.g. of quickguide through rosetta) <mdke> i am doing a write up of what we hope to do this evening, and will post on the wiki/list <claude> rosetta is still so bugged :( <claude> what about integration into lang-pack ? <mdke> not a chance ;) <mdke> afaik the lang-packs are really centered around interfaces rather than documentation. but you could speak to pitti about it if you like <claude> you talked with Carlos about it ? <mdke> yes <mdke> at length ;) <claude> he he <mdke> i'll try and finish the writeup tonight <claude> i think that all documentation should be exempted of freezing <claude> is it against debian rules ? <mdke> well the main documentation has to be frozen really, or translation is difficult IMO <mdke> claude, but I don't think translation documentation uploads will be a problem <mdke> carlos thought they wouldn't be <claude> hope so <mdke> if we sort out the logistics, we'll contact mdz <mdke> brb <claude> k <mdke> back <mdke> claude, have updated the l18n page, if there are any inclarities or inaccuracies please let me know <claude> mdke: need to review, but i think all this is still too complicated <mdke> claude, tell me more <claude> about special characters, i did'nt use entities when translating in French <claude> i left them in UTF-8 <mdke> fine <mdke> claude, what is too complicated? <claude> mdke: not your explanations, but the entire process <mdke> there is not much more we can simplify it <claude> not sure about the "make po" or "make pot" <claude> think the i18n.sh script all this stuff <claude> must check with froud <mdke> froud will have to check that, I know nothing about it <claude> maybe there should be a document for translators <claude> and another one for what happens "behind the scene" <mdke> claude, to be honest, nothing on that page is for translators really, all they have to know is how rosetta works, and there are separate pages for that <claude> k, maybe this should be more clear on that page <mdke> yes you are probably right <mdke> i'll add an introduction <claude> unless we risk to frighten i18n (or l10n) volunteers <mdke> yeah ok <mdke> claude, added an introduction <mdke> thanks for noticing that <claude> great #ubuntu-doc 2005-05-02 <jsgotangco> what the i got invited to test out MS Server 2003 R2 <jsgotangco> haha <jsgotangco> abelli, hi <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, hi <Burgundavia> salut <jsgotangco> thats great my phone crashed <Burgundavia> crappy <jsgotangco> you want to know what it runs <jsgotangco> MS Smartphone :( yes i am shamed <Burgundavia> hmm, ms smartphone <jsgotangco> hey! it was a gift from my wife <Burgundavia> yes, non-techys frequently buy odd gifts like that <Burgundavia> they don't really know the difference <jsgotangco> this phone isnt to smart at all <Burgundavia> it is MS, what do you expect? <jsgotangco> well i used to have a Zaurus and it was crappy so i replaced it with a Pocket PC <Burgundavia> unfortunately, I bought a palm <Burgundavia> so their is no linux for it <jsgotangco> at least they sync nicely <jsgotangco> unlikethe Zaurus where it cant even sync to linux <jsgotangco> it took a while for KitchenSync to do that <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, bye bye i may not be online at all tommorow to prepare stuff <Kinnison> Morning all <Burgundavia> salut <Kinnison> ca va? <Burgundavia> it vas <Burgundavia> yesterday I wanted to kill something. Feeling better today <Kinnison> ca marche alors <abelli> jeffsch: = <abelli> jeffsch: sorry . <abelli> Kinnison: ? <Kinnison> abelli: ? <abelli> Kinnison: what language is that :)? <Kinnison> abelli: unaccented french <abelli> Kinnison: huh right :) <Burgundavia> ugh, feeling stupid <Burgundavia> cannot figure out how to add .desktop files <Burgundavia> there is some step I am missing, but I cannot find it <mkde> where is froud these days? <Burgundavia> around <Burgundavia> did you get a response for the ubuntuguide.org guy? <mkde> no <mkde> apparently he posts on the forum occasionally <Burgundavia> ugh <Burgundavia> he is being most non-responsive <Burgundavia> I have seen posts to the forums though <mkde> its a real shame we can't pool resources <Burgundavia> indeed <Burgundavia> as the current guide I wouldn't recommend to anyone <mkde> i wish he would specify which repository is needed for which application, rather than telling all users to add all repositories <Burgundavia> the marilliat one is annoying <Burgundavia> as stable and testing don't have am64 <Burgundavia> mkde, the word "mains" common in the UK <mkde> ? <Burgundavia> for power <mkde> yes <Burgundavia> Ie, you computer is on the mains <mkde> yes <mkde> if you are asking me ;) <Burgundavia> what about AC power <Burgundavia> what about plugged in? <Burgundavia> is that common? <mkde> both are ok <mkde> yeah <Burgundavia> mains in almost unknown here <Burgundavia> I am working on an interface <mkde> oh right <mkde> just write it in en_CA and get it translated into en_GB and en_US <mkde> ;p * mkde takes a long look in the direction of rosetta <Burgundavia> right <Burgundavia> we need something working now <Burgundavia> and then we can worry about that <Burgundavia> is for the gnome-power project <mkde> right <mkde> i was just joking about the en variants, I think they are a waste of time <Burgundavia> hmm, debatable <Burgundavia> but yes, generally, they are weasel ways out <Burgundavia> you can look for common words <Burgundavia> do you have glade installed? <mkde> i'm on windows 2000 <mkde> and a pretty unstable one at that <Burgundavia> ahhh <Burgundavia> I just assume that someone is one Ubuntu <Burgundavia> do you have access to an ubuntu system? <mkde> not right now * mkde points at mdke <mkde> i'm at school atm <Burgundavia> ah <Burgundavia> I seee <Burgundavia> you are at work <Burgundavia> what are you taking? <mkde> its called the Bar Vocational Course <mkde> one year course you have to take in order to be a lawyer <mkde> over here <Burgundavia> ah <Burgundavia> glade2 has no undo <Burgundavia> very frustrating * mkde looks through ubuntuguide <mkde> i wonder why he chooses to use the command line instead of using gnome-system-tools on some occasions <froud> African Greetings <mkde> hi froud <froud> hi <froud> been a bit busy so have not been tuned. what's happening <mkde> froud, you just replied to my mail, 8 minutes before I sent it <mkde> that is seriously fast <froud> which mail was that <mkde> Re: poxml <froud> Oh yes <froud> so what is new, who is doing what <froud> Burgundavia: did you get my message about the installation guide? <froud> what do you think you want to integrate it <Burgundavia> hadn't got to reading that yet <Burgundavia> will do so now and respond to you <mkde> froud, how come we use QT poxml scripts rather than python ones? is one better than the other? <froud> Ok, if you want just go ahead with the installation guide <froud> we found problems with the gnome stuff <froud> we got kde stuff working first <mkde> oh right <mkde> fair enough <froud> the end result is the same so no big issue <mkde> true <mkde> although if both work, it would seem logical to use the one with least dependencies. But if one is easier than the other, then fair enough <froud> wel we did not get the gnome ones to work <mkde> yeah <mkde> ok <froud> jeffsch: nice one on the style guide dude <Burgundavia> froud, looks good * froud still needs to update the i18n.sh <froud> yeah, think you can do it <Burgundavia> probably <froud> I think it should be a new chapter at the end <Burgundavia> ok <froud> I made the first installation chapter the basic <mkde> froud, oh i wanted to ask you: would you check http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamStepByStepl18n to make sure I haven't got anything wrong <froud> stuff like IP config and partions I also placed in their own chanters <froud> sure <mkde> thx <mkde> i'm off now <mkde> back on this evening <mkde> bye all have fun <froud> ok the doc looks good <froud> just made a small change <mkde> froud, thanks <froud> there will be no branch of hoary <froud> of a release only a tag <mkde> right, yeah just put that in as a parenthesis cos enrico seemed keen <mkde> feel free to correct/expand on anything <froud> it's compound enouh <froud> sure <froud> thanks <froud> c ya later <mkde> bye <Burgundavia> froud, how do I do a if else <Burgundavia> ie if you run 98 <Burgundavia> vs if you run NT <froud> Makes sense, perhaps a chapter with sect1 on each and intro para to cover the in then. Can also do this at the top of the doc <froud> remember to consider both gnome and kde here <froud> although install is mostly about GNU/Linux <Burgundavia> the netinstall doc is only how to boot the installer, so the rest holds <froud> yes, so perhaps just if then at the begin of the doc <froud> what do you think <froud> please remember to ass yourself as an author and the author of the document <froud> add <froud> :-) <Burgundavia> yorp <froud> sorry <froud> going to lectures <froud> c ya later #ubuntu-doc 2005-05-03 <hypno> you know, at the top of the ubuntu wiki the text that gives you context location (UserDocumentation >> SetupHowTos >> AddingRepositoriesHowto >>, etc) s extremely small for me. <froud> African Greetings <mdke> jeffsch, i agree with your mail to the list on the kde quickguide <_froud_> +1 <mdke> morning froud <mdke> :) <froud> morn <froud> however, I think we should let creativity flow here and see where it goes. Certainly, judgement of crowds will determine if it is a good or bad idea. So far it seems to be not a good idea. <mdke> yes i agree with letting creativity flow <mdke> but random misspelling... <froud> yeah, I dont think it is a good idea. But js is new and young, he is having fun which by experimenting, I think it is a good thing. I think the consensus of the crowds will mature him in this aspect and will move to a normal approach :-) <mdke> oh yeah its no biggie <mdke> young? <mdke> :p <froud> young in terms of FOSS <froud> not age <froud> :-) <mdke> lol <mdke> hi jiyuu0 <mdke> welcome <jiyuu0> hello <jiyuu0> i just read there's a prob wif http://ubuntuguide.org/#extrarepositories <jiyuu0> that is causing broken thingi <jiyuu0> issit only wif mplayer? <mdke> I have encountered the problems with codecs generally, people have complained about broken totems too <mdke> jiyuu0, in my experience it is only safe to add marillat temporarily, and then comment it out <jiyuu0> sounds true <jiyuu0> how bout backport? <mdke> and I don't believe that it is necessary to add all of the marillat repositories <mdke> jiyuu0, i have no experience with backports but I know they are very frowned upon by Ubuntu developers <jiyuu0> i added all cause acroread is in testing <mdke> jiyuu0, my personal opinion is that when you describe how to install individual packages, it would be really nice to specify which repository needs to be added, rather than asking people to add them all. and also maybe to explain the risks of the repositories <jiyuu0> i only afraid that would confuse ppl.. that's why i add the whole thingi in <mdke> jiyuu0, for codecs and mplayer, the page http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats can be very useful <mdke> yes I see your concern about the confusion <jiyuu0> so far... the only prob addin all is mplayer broken <mdke> perhaps you could ask others about their experience on ubuntu-users to find out more: i only have limited experience <jiyuu0> ok <mdke> jiyuu0, i think it would be really cool to pool our resources and involve the docteam in your project, even if it is just for input purposes <jiyuu0> i'll see how i can restructure it <jiyuu0> i'm thinkin to convert it to the doc team format... once i finish addin a few more topics <mdke> that would be totally cool <mdke> jiyuu0, perhaps you can email the docteam list about it? <mdke> they can give you lots of help <jiyuu0> ok <mdke> yay :) <jiyuu0> :) <mdke> your resource has enormous potential, and it would be nice to work together to make it really reliable and bring it to the maximum number of users possible <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, the only marillait repo that is neccesary is the unstable one, as testing and stable have no amd64 debs <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, it has also been having some issues recently <jiyuu0> Burgundavia: testing have acroread 7 <jiyuu0> else mozilla-acroread will be broken if not added <Burgundavia> unstable has it as well <mdke> it is only natural that marillat causes problems: it is not made for Ubuntu. What I do on my system is to add it and then remove it after I've installed what I want <jiyuu0> or should i download the packages to my server... and let ppl download + install manualloy <Burgundavia> Marilliat shoudl work in Ubuntu <Burgundavia> jiyuu0, no, keep the repos <jiyuu0> ok <Burgundavia> there is no good reason that those repos should break, as long as you know what to expect, and which ones you actually need * Kinnison heads off to UDU, bye guys <mdke> have fun Kinnison * jiyuu0 so many mails... omg <mdke> lol <Burgundavia> indeed <jiyuu0> all from ubuntu <jiyuu0> gosh <jiyuu0> that's why i'm afraid to login into my gmail + subsribe mailing list account <mdke> jiyuu0, if you use evolution or another email client you can filter the mailing lists into individual folders ;) <jiyuu0> did it previously... till i formatted it to hoary <Burgundavia> gmail has that to <jiyuu0> haven setup my mail client yet <jiyuu0> anybody suggested kubuntu guide before? <jiyuu0> i don't think i have the time to do that <Burgundavia> ubuntuguide will work for kubuntu, because it is cli based <jiyuu0> not really... configure network / right file share is only avaible for ubuntu but not kubuntu <Burgundavia> ah <jjesse> morning <Burgundavia> salut <mdke> hi jjesse <jjesse> hello mdke <jjesse> finally have time to work again now that we have succesfully deployed our ip phone system <jsgotangco> ugghh there goes the kwick guide *grin* <mdke> hi jsgotangco <jsgotangco> mdke, hey hows it going <mdke> good thanks, you? <jsgotangco> im starting to pack up my stuff <jsgotangco> good thing the list isnt steaming today <mdke> yeah its calming down <mdke> jsgotangco, have fun in UDU, defend the docteam corner ;) <jsgotangco> yes i will defend the dokteam korner <jsgotangco> gyah ha ha <mdke> hmm * mdke steals jsgotangco 's plane tickets <jsgotangco> sure its electronic <mdke> (electronically) <jsgotangco> hmm <jsgotangco> no school? <jsgotangco> ugghh this xp machine suck so bad <jsgotangco> mdke, how goes rosetta? <mdke> jsgotangco, seems ok, what do you think? <mdke> i saw a tl quickguide po appear <jsgotangco> hmm that's not me for sure <jsgotangco> i will check ive been busy with the quickguide <mdke> jsgotangco, there aren't actually any translations in there <mdke> maybe carlos just added a blank po <jsgotangco> theres a bit trouble brewing with i18n and i10n over here the debian-tl people are sourgraping <mdke> whats wrong? <jsgotangco> everytime someone in debian-tl asks about ubuntu they say translate debian first since it goes to ubuntu <jsgotangco> i told them that's fine <mdke> well the upstream translations certainly go in <jsgotangco> yeah they go in like what happened in hoary <jsgotangco> i told them to read the stuff in rosetta first before reacting <mdke> you should tell them to translate upstream first since it goes into debian :p <jsgotangco> they dont like the idea of translating something other than debian <jsgotangco> which is ridiculous <mdke> sounds like they are typical debian users <mdke> tell them to post on the ubuntu-tl list, if you have one <jsgotangco> we have ubuntu-ph but some of them debian-tl guys can be stubborn perhaps it is our culture <mdke> nah its like that with all debian users ;) <mdke> just tell them of the existence of ubuntu-ph and leave it at that <jsgotangco> we did <jsgotangco> hehe <jsgotangco> we get like 3 new members everyday <mdke> cool <jjesse> jsgotangco did you remove the Kwick guide references to the kubuntu quickguide or not yet per the discussion on the email list <jeffsch> good morning <jjesse> morning <jsgotangco> jjesse, will do remove those stuff because the style guide says so <jjesse> ok <jsgotangco> but i'll just commit them later got to add more stuff dont want to commit on just plain title changes <abelli> ciao a tutti, where should i look for breezy's qemu-image. <jsgotangco> ciao <mdke> abelli, #ubuntu-devel? <abelli> mdke: you should know it? or how can you take images of breezy? <mdke> i don't know <mdke> we haven't done screenshots yet <jsgotangco> i haven't even changed my box to breezy repos <mdke> me neither <jsgotangco> too early imo <jjesse> me 3 <jsgotangco> for us anyway <jjesse> i don't want to have to update every day :( <jsgotangco> well <jsgotangco> we dont need to <mdke> i will install breezy on a separate partition and do doc work in that i think <jsgotangco> we can start serious stuff halway through breezy devel * mdke nods <jsgotangco> right now we're focusing on structure <jsgotangco> mdke, i was in #ubuntu the other day <jsgotangco> and i saw some guys saying gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu <jsgotangco> hehehe <mdke> pah <Burgundavia> gubuntu, the republican version of Ubuntu <jsgotangco> lol <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, hi <jiyuu0> jsgotangco, hello <jsgotangco> im supposed to leave in a few hours and then my mobile phone wont respond <jsgotangco> grr <abelli> jsgotangco: well, you can use qemu, so that you dont have to install it :) <jsgotangco> abelli, you will be proud of me for i am using an ms smartphone that my wife gave me a few months ago <jsgotangco> im downloading a new firmware at the moment <abelli> jsgotangco: ok im coming for the "mkfs.ext2" <jsgotangco> it would be nice to have one of those moto phones <jsgotangco> abelli, by chance are you in milan <abelli> jsgotangco: no but i can get there in less than 2 hrs <jsgotangco> abelli, i might go to milan by october to visit my aunt and go to rome as well <abelli> jsgotangco: we can meet up in milan .. easily. <jeffsch> I'm off to get caffeine. jsgotangco, have fun at UDU and don't work too hard! :-) * jeffsch is away: I'll be back <jsgotangco> jeffsch, thanks i will make sure the dokteam gets heard hehe <jeffsch> :) <abelli> im off <abelli> ciao a tutti <mdke> ciao <abelli> buon week end <mdke> you too <jsgotangco> ciao <jsgotangco> ok that's all folks <jsgotangco> see you * jeffsch is back (gone 03:43:10) #ubuntu-doc 2005-05-04 <froud> African Greetings <maskie> morning frud <froud> morn, cold, wet, raining, thunder and lightning <maskie> frud = ftoud <maskie> gee cannot spel this morning <froud> you got 5 thumbs this morning <maskie> must be the wet cold rainy weather <froud> yeah, so what's new, hows the kids <maskie> good ... nothing new otherwise <froud> life goes on hey <froud> see tescum are finally taking a beating in the press <froud> telscum <froud> maybe the price of DSL will now come down <maskie> yes ... i saw ... but i am still very sceptical .... a lot has been said and written .. wonders if anything will really happen <froud> finaly, although I have yet to see them reduce my bill since the dropped the price a few months back <froud> when they drop the price are they supposed to drop it also for existing customers <maskie> i would have thought so ... you have a contract with them <froud> nah to busy, but it is on my list, dreading it <froud> contract yes, <froud> you cant get service witout that <froud> perhaps the contract states that I am locked into a price <froud> I think it was six months <maskie> so you have this 24 month thing where you got your modem for free <froud> no I bought the modem <froud> paid it cash <froud> but I have has DSL for more than six months <maskie> the you should not have a contract and they should reduce your price but then that is telscum <froud> As a business user, still pay 680 a month + 250 for +3GB <maskie> hmmm ... should a business use not pay 800 <maskie> and as far as i know that did not reduce ... only the residential 680 became 599 <froud> Hmmm, cant remember <froud> yes you are right <froud> has business price changed? <maskie> not as far as i know ... i still have no idea why the business one is a diff one as the residential one .. <froud> yeah I had that argument with them <maskie> the equip and line is exactly the same <froud> they said it was the service level <froud> business gets priority <maskie> what service level :) <froud> yep, I wonder that too <froud> in general I hardly call them <froud> the service has been reliable <froud> from a network perspective that is <froud> maskie I need a hosting service that is cheap and does not care about bandwidth <froud> over the last two months my site generated 8GB traffic <maskie> only option is overseas ... <maskie> who is hosting at the moment <froud> http://www.inwords.co.za/stats/index.html <froud> most of the hits because of K/Ubuntu docs <froud> a small company in Krugers Dorp <froud> the admin there is now jacked and pro linux, he installs Gentoo <maskie> 8GB is probably costing you a bundle ... <froud> :-) yep <froud> It's a lot to pay for free contributions <maskie> i am in the process of moving some of my domains to offshore hosting with unlimited traffic <froud> where to? <maskie> still looking at some ... best sofar is some UK company .. it is on one of my other machine .. will get it and let you know <froud> cool #ubuntu-doc 2005-05-05 <froud> African Greetings <maskie> froud you should take it slow on a sunday ... morning <froud-work> :-) tell my customers that <froud-work> I have to write two brochures today, one on Inventory Optimization and one on Business Inteligence <froud-work> and the bottle of Zonneblom Merlot I had last night is not helping <maskie> i can imagine .... <maskie> have you any idea when Thomas is leaving TSF? <froud-work> he said this is his lat month <froud-work> last <froud-work> when I spoke to him last he was busy wrapping up stuff <froud-work> I think he is still negotiating doing contract work fro GOS <maskie> i see ... thanks ... so they would need somebody from 1 May which is in a week! <froud-work> I guess, but you know these types of orgs move slow <froud-work> Knysna dude <maskie> yes i know ... almost as slow as the gov ... Knysna???? <froud-work> Like everything in Knysna, is hey chill bro and pass the spliff <froud-work> knysna dude <froud-work> no sense of urgency <maskie> ok gotit .. african time <froud-work> :-), yeah, I can speak to tsblack and see how he is doing. maybe get some feedback without mentioning you <froud-work> hint for you <maskie> thanks would appreciate it .... <maskie> all the help will be appreciated <froud-work> ;-) lekker <maskie> i will now leave you to carru on with your work ... while i run to the shop .. see ya later <froud-work> Ok and milk the cows while you are out there <froud-work> cheers <maskie> will do <mdke> froud-work, some one has written a script to check the status and grab po files from rosetta... i'm taking a look at it now <froud-work> cool <mdke> looks pretty cool <mdke> can't get it working atm <mdke> froud-work, ok it works, its mad cool <froud-work> document it in wiki and checkin the script to svn <mdke> i need to edit it to do the docteam stuff <froud-work> sure, once you have done that <mdke> this is it on the author's project: http://pastebin.ca/10185 <mdke> froud-work, problem is, it will only work for me <froud-work> yes you need a user and pass <mdke> oh no, maybe it will work for everyone <froud-work> but that is good <mdke> froud-work, i think normal user should have sufficient permissions to get the po files <froud-work> ok <froud-work> sorry working today, cant stop and chat to much <mdke> we can test it if I manage to edit it successfully <mdke> np froud-work i'll see ya later <froud-work> ok <mdke> ok it works a treat <froud-work> magic, eventually we will be able to automate the whole thing as much possible giving more time for core work :-) love it dude. thanks <mdke> i'm not going to commit it for two reasons: 1. rosetta hasn't got any breezy translations and urls might change; 2. I haven't figured out how to get it to put the files in specific lang directories yet <mdke> froud-work, but i'll use it for checking the status of hoary translations <mdke> then when rosetta goes breezy, i'll sort it and check it in <froud-work> commit to teamstuff and add this information as comments to the files head. <froud-work> This way we can all get visability and people may come to the table with solutions <froud-work> th emore eye-balls the better <froud-work> :-) <mdke> sure <mdke> i'll post to the list <mdke> i don't know python so someone can probably help <froud-work> exactly. we need to try capture such gems into our processes and automate them as best possible if we are to cope when the pressure mounts. <mdke> yup <mdke> the guy who wrote the script is the author of a program in rosetta (not ubuntu related) called gnome-recipe-manager ;) <froud-work> He he, perhaps if I tell my mrs. about it she will finally allow me to move her computer to Linux :-) <mdke> you'll need krecipe-manager i guess... <froud-work> I'll be happy with just gnome, just want her to move from windows <mdke> :)) <mdke> http://grecipe-manager.sourceforge.net/ <froud-work> showed her that OOo Calc can run her Excell sheets and formulas the other day, so we are one step closer, I think <mdke> cool <mdke> keep working <mdke> i'll get my gf on linux if it kills me <froud-work> yeah, but she is a windows die-hard <froud-work> laggard delux when it comes to technology changes <mdke> my parents are like that <froud-work> she will move when everyone else has done so :-) <mdke> tell her using linux is cool <froud-work> you know, when we are finished with the application layer of the docteam, we will have a kick-ass system here <mdke> :) <mdke> i'm just going for a shower <froud-work> other projects manage i18n externally, but with us it is integral * froud-work thought something smelt funny <mdke> heh <abelli> does anybody here know what burning app is going to be supported in ubuntu? #ubuntu-doc 2005-05-06 <Kinnison> Morning <mdke> hi Kinnison <Burgundavia> salut Kinnison, how is aussie? <Kinnison> Tiring currently :-) <cc> hypatia: why do i get the funny feeling you're sitting right opposite of me? ;-) <hypatia> I might be. <Burgundavia> cc, where you at mataro> <cc> Burgundavia: nope <Burgundavia> hmm <hypatia> I'm up the front of mdz's session next to daniels and near elmo. <Burgundavia> didn't meet you then <hypatia> I'm all in black. <cc> hypatia: okay, then it isn't you ;-) <hypatia> heh <cc> i'm at the back <hypatia> cc: well, feel free to come say hello in the break. <hypatia> I'm really tall too, so that should reduce the chance of getting the wrong person. <cc> hypatia: were you by any chance of computerbank fame? <hypatia> Nup. <cc> okay, guess i'm confused * hypatia looks at cc's real name <hypatia> Oh right, I know who you are now. <hypatia> Because you got mentioned by Mark :) <cc> hypatia: heh, right <hypatia> So, if anyone has any comments on how Rosetta could better target our workflow... now's a good time to talk. <hypatia> Because the Rosetta One Point Zero discussion is about to start. <Burgundavia> no idea, sorry <Burgundavia> I have never used it <Burgundavia> oh <Burgundavia> actually <Burgundavia> there are some bugs taht need to be worked out <Burgundavia> hypatia, you there? <hypatia> yep. <Burgundavia> ok <Burgundavia> got some ideas <Burgundavia> 1. when translating a locale, show other locales of the same language <Burgundavia> 2. Be able to specify what language the pot file is in, and those that language would be automatically translated <hypatia> Ok. <hypatia> I'm not sure how much of this I can raise right now, but I will make sure to draw Carlos's attention to it in the next day. <Burgundavia> be bold! <thegreedyturtle> ok <Burgundavia> helloo <Burgundavia> this is the channel for the ubuntu documentation team <thegreedyturtle> helloooo there in internet land <Burgundavia> of which I am a member <Burgundavia> I like the idea of the wiki <thegreedyturtle> :) <Burgundavia> unfortunately, the Ubuntu way to promote the tools we have, most especially the GUI tools <Burgundavia> also, less is more useful in my opinion <Burgundavia> we also work in our svn repo <Burgundavia> so I don't want to discourage you, but it also good not to duplicate efforts, so as to concentrate on one good set of docs <thegreedyturtle> tell me more about the svn repository <Burgundavia> we work with docbook xml in the svn repo <thegreedyturtle> The reason I made this is really because I keep answering the same questions over at #ubuntu, and I wanted people to understand Linux better, it's really mostly about linux <Burgundavia> you can check out at <Burgundavia> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk <thegreedyturtle> that's an interesting idea about being GUI based <Burgundavia> also, what people on #ubuntu really need are little docs for the specific problem they have right now, like enabling universe or ati drivers <Burgundavia> such as BinaryDriverHowTo <Burgundavia> if you want to work on the wiki, the really needed thing is a "first 20 minutes", here are the needed faqs to get you going meta page <Burgundavia> they are working at NewFrontPage i think on that <thegreedyturtle> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocTeamTestingNewFrontPage ? <Burgundavia> maybe that <Burgundavia> I hate our wiki with a passion <thegreedyturtle> heh, i tend to lean towards that attitude as well <thegreedyturtle> i don't like it because it's just not well organized atm <Burgundavia> I like wikis, but I hate ours <thegreedyturtle> and as you said, the little important things just aren't really there <Burgundavia> well most of them are <Burgundavia> BinaryDriverHowTo is for ati/nvidia <Burgundavia> ExtraRepos needs work <Burgundavia> and RestrictedFormats <Burgundavia> those are the biggest three <thegreedyturtle> my biggest problem is that i don't know much about the specific stuff (yet), hence i started on the general <Burgundavia> what the wiki si good for is lots of little pages that are well organized <Burgundavia> generally <thegreedyturtle> is there a doc explaining more about how you want to be more GUI focused? <Burgundavia> not really <Burgundavia> current it is just a pipe dream <Burgundavia> for the wiki that is <Burgundavia> we are looking at setting up apache lenya so we can discard the wiki for docs <Burgundavia> and edit on the web in our svn repo <thegreedyturtle> i think i get what you are saying - you are mostly saying that this kind of doc is bad for the wiki <Burgundavia> big docs are always better in smaller pieces, for me at least <thegreedyturtle> since the wiki needs to be a collection of small docs <thegreedyturtle> yeah <Burgundavia> I hate reading a 40 page thing to get one piece of info <thegreedyturtle> i thought about breaking it up, but it builds on itself, it's designed to be a 'start from scratch' sort of thing, and to be honest it probably shouldn't be on the wiki, but i don't really have anywhere to put it <Burgundavia> there is a lot of start from scratch ideas being thrown around right now <Burgundavia> as we just started the breezy cycle for the doc team <Burgundavia> I suggest you subscribe to ubuntu-doc and join the dicussion <thegreedyturtle> is that a mailing list, or this channel <Burgundavia> mailing list <thegreedyturtle> ok <Burgundavia> that doc must of taken a lot of effort, so we can probably use it <thegreedyturtle> :) <thegreedyturtle> i'd like that, but i won't hate you if you decide not to <thegreedyturtle> what should I do with it for now? <Burgundavia> leave it there <thegreedyturtle> easy enough <Burgundavia> maybe put some links at the top to the three pages I just mentioned <thegreedyturtle> well, i guess this means it's about time i got around to reading that online Subversion book <thegreedyturtle> how do you mean? <thegreedyturtle> something like 'if you want to add to this, please add to these instead' <Burgundavia> yah <Burgundavia> If you want to Enable 3D acceleration, see binarydriver <Burgundavia> If you want to enable universe and multiverse, see blah <thegreedyturtle> ah <thegreedyturtle> and if you want restricted formats... <Burgundavia> I would say, if you want to play DVD's or watch movies, see <Burgundavia> to be clear, as the titles of the pages aren't very clear <thegreedyturtle> i see what you are saying <Burgundavia> I keep meaning to do it, but I then I use the wiki and I get disgusted and do something else <thegreedyturtle> i have a question about somethin, how closely related to ubuntu is the ubuntu backports repo? <thegreedyturtle> it seems to be on ubuntuforums.org, but... <Burgundavia> backports is unofficial <Burgundavia> done by people in the repos <Burgundavia> you can write something about it <Burgundavia> but be very clear the dangers <thegreedyturtle> right <Burgundavia> I have never used them, as I usually run the devel version <Burgundavia> and can wait for the latest crack <hypatia> what's a "How's Come"? <hypatia> I'm wondering specifically about the apostrophe :) <hypatia> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuHowsCome <Burgundavia> I think it should be UbuntuHowCome <Burgundavia> hows is a common esl mistake <hypatia> I figured that: I didn't know about that being a common mistake. <thegreedyturtle> I did it on purpose to make it cloes to HowTo, but i guess its not very professional <hypatia> I think the title is OK... it's just that the phrase is "How come", not "How's come" <hypatia> ie "How come Ubuntu doesn't have DVD support?" rather than "How's come Ubuntu doesn't have DVD support?" <thegreedyturtle> ah i see <thegreedyturtle> what's the ExtraRepos wiki page? <thegreedyturtle> BreakMyUbuntu? <thegreedyturtle> AddingRepositoriesHowto? <Burgundavia> those probably all be combined into one I think <hypatia> BreakMyUbuntu seems to be a guide to adding unsupported (and possibly broken) repositories. <Burgundavia> the only repo you need is marilliat <hypatia> Hmmm, AddingRepositoriesHowto seems to be a bit different. <Burgundavia> and possible backports <Burgundavia> adding should be about universe/multiverse <hypatia> It is an instruction, the others are lists of repositories. <thegreedyturtle> ok <Burgundavia> salut froud <froud> African Greetings <froud> he he beat me to it this morning <Burgundavia> read the log <Burgundavia> I have shaghaiied another person <froud> ok, what's the case with http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/HighPriority <Burgundavia> he even likes the wiki <Burgundavia> no idea? <hypatia> The BOFs have three priorities in terms of which of them should result in specs by the end of the UDU conference. <hypatia> The HighPriority ones are the highest priority, the ones that it is really important to get specifications for. <hypatia> Priorities are assigned by Canonical management I think. <Burgundavia> ah <Burgundavia> hypatia, what is HCT? <hypatia> The Hypothetical Changeset Tool. <hypatia> I don't know exactly what it does. <hypatia> I gather it's going to be for package maintainers. <hypatia> They can gather together different patches using Bazaar or something. <hypatia> The rough idea of a lot of what is in the high priority list is that the Ubuntu releases are meant to move onto the Launchpad infrastructure over the course of the Breezy cycle. <froud> Hmm, no mention of documentation <Burgundavia> froud, almost none of us are there <froud> Can anyone edit HighPriority <Burgundavia> no idea <froud> point 14 Edubuntu <froud> another distro <Burgundavia> that can
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