#ubuntu-ca 2010-11-04 <dscassel> txwikinger: If nothing else, Andrew might be willing to hand out CDs at the kwartzlab booth... <dscassel> We should send them anyway. <txwikinger> dscassel: ok I will send Anrew an e-mail <txwikinger> +d <ball> hello MagicFab <MagicFab> o/ <ball> Hello Seanland <Seanland> Hey ball, hows it going? <ball> Seanland: Not too bad thanks, yourself? <Seanland> ball: good, good, just in class =D <ball> Seanland: What do you study? <Seanland> ball: computer programming <ball> Seanland: How far into it are you? <Seanland> ball: only second semester <ball> What languages do they have you coding in? <Seanland> c, c++, rpg, cl, xhtml, js <Seanland> so far <ball> RPG on IBM i? <Seanland> yea lol <ball> Blimey. <ball> Any assembly yet? <Seanland> fun stuff =S <Seanland> nope, I do not believe so <Seanland> I think just RPG and CL on iSeries * ball nods <ball> Odd that they don't start you off in assembly. <ball> Perhaps I'm just an old fart. <Seanland> maybe :P .. I know you can go 2 more courses with the iSeries, if you choose... * ball nods <ball> I did some work on an i5 520, php and IBM DB2 <ball> I liked the DB2 part. Wasn't impressed with php. <Seanland> yea, I would not want to do that <Seanland> not a big fan of this <Seanland> ball: end of class, may be back in a bit <ve2dmn_work> RPG reminds me of this: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Other-Kind-of-RPG.aspx <ve2dmn_work> and this: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/A_Case_of_the_MUMPS.aspx <txwikinger> Yeah and snobol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNOBOL <ve2dmn_work> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages * KombuchaKip reckons this will be a great documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXHqpRmu1oY #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-05 <MattQC> hello <gantrixx> anyone here? <hypatia> yup! <MattQC> hello <MattQC> yep, I would hope so <gantrixx> This is the first time this has ever happened. When I rebooted, my computer goes into text mode. If I try to manually start gdm, it says it is already started <MattQC> gantrixx hypatia: how are you both? <gantrixx> MattQC, I'm frustrated <gantrixx> how are you? <MattQC> hmm, odd? <MattQC> never had that happen before <gantrixx> ctrl-alt-F7 just results in blank screen <MattQC> I'm okay, seeing I don't have a verbose login problem <MattQC> I think that's what they call it, verbose mode, no? <MattQC> I'm vacillating now between Fedora 14 and Ubuntu 10.10 <gantrixx> oh, I think I might know what it is <hypatia> gantrixx: can you kill it and then restart it? <hypatia> that's odd <hypatia> what do you think it is? <gantrixx> fglrx <gantrixx> I was trying to remove mysql-server <hypatia> ahh <gantrixx> for some reason it had some dependency on fglrx <gantrixx> and it couldn't uninstall fglrx <gantrixx> so maybe it partially removed it <gantrixx> there are some weird things with 10.10 <hypatia> that is mega weird <gantrixx> well that was it <MattQC> I've always been an Ubuntu type, but wanted to give Fedora a look see with the new release <hypatia> how's that been working, MattQC ? <MattQC> hypatia: back <hypatia> wb <MattQC> hypatia: Thanks. Now chatting from Pidgin, via Windows :( <hypatia> :( <hypatia> at least it's pidgin! <MattQC> Okay, I am going to ditch Fedora I think, and head back to Ubuntu <MattQC> Yes yes, indeed <hypatia> welcome back, i guess? :) <MattQC> IÂ´ve become used to XChat however <MattQC> yes yes <MattQC> Just easier to configure the installer, and on my ThinkPad too <MattQC> checked power consumption on the other distro via PowerTop, and itÂ´s about the same <MattQC> I am going to head to bed shortly however. ItÂ´s almost 2am here in MontrÃ©al #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-08 <KombuchaKip> http://www.debtclock.ca/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=1 <paultag> Anyone from Toronto? <willwh> paultag: there are some I believe, I couldn't tell you who thougth <willwh> I'm in Victoria, BC :) <dscassel> paultag: I'm nearby. hypatia has been running Toronto events lately... <paultag> dscassel, awesome. One of my good friends lives up there and I got her to switch to Ubuntu <paultag> thanks willwh :) <dscassel> Cool. :) hypatia was talking about starting up Ubuntu Hours there, but I don't think she's had one yet. <paultag> awesome :) <paultag> Hey, I'll BRB, need to head to an interview. One love and all that. #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-09 <MattQC> Oh hey everyone <Madpilot> test <Madpilot> test <dscassel> Madpilot: did it work? :) <Madpilot> kind of <Madpilot> I'm on a relative's computer, away from my heavily-customized XChat install at home <Madpilot> and trying to recreate some features I set up years back... <dscassel> Ah. <Madpilot> the simple method would have been to copy .xchat2 from my home machine, but bit late for that :) <Madpilot> testing <Madpilot> sweet, figured out how to get my own messages in something other than hard-to-read grey <dscassel> It's all green to me. :) <Madpilot> xchat by default does regular message text in black, but your own in pale grey <Madpilot> nick too <Madpilot> now my nick and text show as red <dscassel> I tried XChat once and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. <dscassel> I'm using irssi as a kind of least undesirable alternative. <dscassel> (screen makes it palatable). <Madpilot> real xchat or the abomination that is xchat-gnome? <dscassel> Can't remember. Probably xchat-gnome. <Madpilot> see above about abomination :) <Madpilot> give the real thing a shot. the default settings I find a bit of a pain, but I'm old fashioned sometimes. <dscassel> That might have been the problem. :) <dscassel> Screen + irssi means I can check the channel from work and home and elsewhere, which is handy. <Madpilot> with real xchat, ditch the tree-thing on the side in favour of tabs along the top, enable coloured nicks & timestamps, and you should be OK <dscassel> I probably wouldn't be on nearly as much otherwise. <willwh> dscassel: same here <willwh> screen & irssi ftw <willwh> & twirssi :) <willwh> is a nice script. <dscassel> I have friends who swear by twirssi, but it's a bit primitive for me. <willwh> fair enough, works for me :) <dscassel> I'll admit there's a certain appeal, but there's a bunch of Twitter stuff I use a lot that it doesn't do. <dscassel> Like real retweets. <willwh> what are you using? <willwh> just a browser? <dscassel> A mix of gwibber and the browser. <dscassel> (Gwibber's missing stuff too. If I had any free time, I'd try to add some of those features). <ball> hello zul_ <paultag> dscassel, txwikinger, I've added you to a bug report along with Cory ( you were all listed as contact ). Sorry this is taking so long from us <paultag> much love <dscassel> paultag: Thanks. Got the email notification... <dscassel> No worries. :) <paultag> rocken. <paultag> BBL, one love and all that <dscassel> paultag: I'll be out this evening, but I can answer questions (if there are any) when I get back... #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-10 * KombuchaKip finally understands upvalues and closure, but the lambda calculus is still giving him a headache. <paultag> dscassel, just logging it <czajkowski> dscassel: see I told you we hadn't forgotten you <lalya> hello <lalya> is anyone online? <czajkowski> bit early I guess for folks lalya <lalya> can you help me? <lalya> i have installed this ubuntu 10.10 <lalya> but i dont understand something <czajkowski> what ? <lalya> basically i want to know the hardware address <lalya> of a fingerprint installed in my laptop <lalya> but in administration i cannot find anything like.. devices in windows <lalya> how can i see all the devices and their addresses in ubuntu? <czajkowski> lalya: in a terminal type lspci <lalya> ok hold on <lalya> i do it now <lalya> * i try <czajkowski> lalya: also asking in #ubuntu might make more sense as folks are awake in there 24/7 <lalya> it doesnt see it :( <lalya> i see a bunch of usb intel controllers... <MattQC> hey hey <willwh> hi <willwh> wups <willwh> wrong channel, but hello folks! :) #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-11 <TheProf> Hello - I am hoping someone can help with a small question please. I've tried the Twitter module to get a global Twitter block but I seem to be unable to do so. The twitter feed is unprotected and doesn't need a password. Is there another solution or a better, simpler solution for getting a basic twitter block please? <RobotGrrl> TheProf: Protect your tweets? ;) <TheProf> RobotGrrl: Hello. I'm making the site for someone else so I don't think that's an option. <RobotGrrl> TheProf: Sorry, might have misunderstood! <TheProf> RobotGrrl: No problem. I just want a block to show tweets. Ideas? <RobotGrrl> TheProf: Ooohh, I see! There is a standard Twitter module around. You can probably find it on their site- or is that not what you are looking for? <TheProf> RobotGrrl: I did try that same twitter module but it doesn't work unfortunately. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. <RobotGrrl> TheProf: Maybe Twitter was fail whaling at that time? It's rather temperamental these days <RobotGrrl> TheProf: There are PHP scripts around that can display tweets in plain text around the internet <TheProf> RobotGrrl: I'm not sure since I can have twitter open in another window and it works. I do also get an error message from Drupal so I don't think it's twitter. <TheProf> RobotGrrl: do you have a link to an example one perhaps? <RobotGrrl> TheProf: I can check what one I use for my site and get back to you in an hour if that works (have to do a robot webcast soon) :-) <TheProf> RobotGrrl: if you could do that, that would be greatly appreciated! #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-12 <hypatia> RobotGrrl: you got mentioned on the adafruid blag :D <RobotGrrl> hypatia: Hahaha yeah! :) <hypatia> congrats :D <RobotGrrl> thanks ^_^ <RobotGrrl> TheProf: http://forr.st/~CuR there's the code snippet that I use :) <TheProf> RobotGrrl: Thanks for the link! <TheProf> That worked perfectly -- thank you. <TheProf> I have one more issue please -- for some reason on my site the theme I'm using is showing blog postings with a different font than all other postings (story, etc). Any idea how to debug it? <TheProf> The font is smaller and the spacing is tighter. <MarkDude> http://www.rhok.org/events/rhok-2/ Canada location #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-14 <cxo> Trying to do some research on canadian copyright law and software licensing. Want to confirm that software licenses are invalid as part of contract law in Canada. <hypatia> cxo: "software licenses" as in "gpl/bsd" or as in eulas? <hypatia> i've never heard of either being blanketly invalid in canada, either way <cxo> well EULAs are just proprietary software licenses, so both i guess <hypatia> not exactly - eula's cover the binary; source code in proprietary software is just under regular copyright <hypatia> whereas Free licenses cover both binary and code <hypatia> with the same license <hypatia> but yeah, i've never heard of any of them being invalid under canadian contract law <hypatia> any idea where you heard that, cxo ? <cxo> That's the conclusion I've come to after reading the Canadian Copyright Act (C41) and Contract Law <cxo> GPL and friends, grant the user permissions that are usually only restricted to the copyright owner, so that would be OK in sense that it doesnt try and take away constitutional rights given by the Copyright Act. But things like the EULA start imposing things that the Copyright Act explicitly gives you permission to do <cxo> rather, most EULAs <hypatia> there's a difference between certain provisions of a EULA being unenforceable vs. them being "invalid as part of contract law" <hypatia> see also "blue pencilling" <hypatia> http://lauren32@example.com/msg00669.html from debian-legal says GPL is likely enforceable in canada <hypatia> i'm sure portions of EULAs would also be invalid in the US and elsewhere <hypatia> the right of first sale, for example <cxo> well the GPL is enforceable because it is basically just transferring rights from owner to user. But not all software licenses do that. Once you start telling people what they can't do, it becomes illegal, if the Copyright Act says otherwise. Thats why I see most software licenses not being enforceable in Canada <hypatia> you get the idea of blue pencilling, though, right? <hypatia> and i'm not sure that EULAs would fall under the purview of the Copyright act rather than just general contract law <hypatia> what specific part of contract law do you think renders EULAs invalid? <cxo> (can't seem to find a good definition of blue penciling) <cxo> It isn't contract law per se, as in, contract law is just between two people/entities and is enforceable. But the point that it is only enforceable if it is not contradictory to existing law and in this case the Copyright Act <hypatia> i'm not sure the copyright act applies over a regular contract, though <hypatia> blue pencilling is basically "editing down" portions of a contract which are unreasonable or contrary to law <hypatia> so like "we asked for this, but this is what's actually allowed under the law" <cxo> oh ok, i get that, yes i suppose thats fine. <hypatia> it's not really a question of fine or not, it's how the law works :) <cxo> no what i meant is, I understood that and in agreement to how the law works <hypatia> ah gotcha :) <cxo> Thus the EULA/license is always valid and only parts are invalidated on a point-by-point basis by federal or provincial law <hypatia> well, it would vary case by case <hypatia> it's certainly possible that the whole EULA would be overbroad <hypatia> and get thrown out <cxo> yes <hypatia> but blue-pencilling it down is more likely <hypatia> unless it's really egregious / obvious <cxo> Canadian copyright act does not make any mention of software. There is a C-32 on the table to modernize it but not sure if it will get passed <hypatia> doesn't matter if it's mentioned in the current law <hypatia> contract and common law still apply <cxo> Yes, I don't doubt that. I think my wording was poor when I asked that. <hypatia> cxo: law is all about being pedantic, apologies if it seemed like i was picking at your words :) * hypatia was raised by a feral pack of lawyers <cxo> The very nature of most EULAs is to restrict usage. eg. Take this business of reverse engineering. Its one of those things that is on most proprietary software licenses or EULAs <cxo> Since we dont have a DMCA or an equivalent, how would that be dealt with in Canada <cxo> (pulls up the popular microsoft eula to look for some examples) <cxo> "You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation." Now in Canada, there is nothing about _explicitly_ permitting or prohibiting reverse engineering <cxo> (sorry that exert was from the Microsoft Windows EULA) <hypatia> right, which is why MS would have to take you to /civil/, not criminal, court if you RE'd their product <cxo> I suppose it will then come down to what your intent was and not the act of RE <hypatia> likely, yes <cxo> Are you following this business of Blizzard and the Battle Net 2.0 RE case <hypatia> nope <hypatia> got a link handy? <cxo> not the legal docs but here is a little blurb, http://au.gamespot.com/news/6282171.html <cxo> This stuff is so completely alien to Canadian law it was be quite comical to see this go down in a Canadian court <cxo> s/was/would <hypatia> it never would, because the DMCA offers so much more traction <hypatia> that's why most of the interesting RE work happens in europe <cxo> Yeah, i've noticed that. But why not Canada <cxo> "When users of the Hacks download, install, and use the Hacks, they copy StarCraft II copyrighted content into their computer's RAM in excess of the scope of their limited license, as set forth in the EULA and ToU, and create derivative works of StarCraft II." </gamespot article> <hypatia> cxo: not sure why not canada. lots of crypto work is done here, though (see: openssl, openssh, openswan) <cxo> And with the advent of the Internet. Would you be breaking the US law, if you an American were to do anything prohibited by the DMCA online on a server in Canada/Europe <cxo> ... physically being in the US and "virtually" acting in another country <hypatia> cxo: non-americans who "violate" the dmca have been arrested in the past when they set foot in the US <hypatia> see the Dimitri Skylarov case <hypatia> even when the violation happened outside the US <hypatia> it's scary shit <hypatia> that's why the iphone dev team folks conceal their identities <cxo> Yes it is scary. These provisions were intended to protect the weak. Now its being used to attack the weak. <hypatia> well, they are being used to attack the strong, too <hypatia> cf. patent trolling <hypatia> nothing weak about RIM and MS, and they get patent trolled all the time <cxo> Software Patents dont exist in Canada right? <cxo> As far as I know the US is the only place you can patent software <hypatia> i don't think either of those statements are correct <hypatia> just because there's no specific legislation saying you /can/ patent sw, doesn't mean you can't just go ahead and do it <cxo> and i dont think you can patent an algorithm either, " "No patent shall issue for ... any mere scientific principle or abstract theorem." <cxo> see the last paragraph, http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr01090.html#sec8 <cxo> Need to find a definition of "invention" as per the Canadian IP law <cxo> Invention= "process, machine, manufacture, composition of matter" <cxo> see chapter 2, http://www.jurisdiction.com/itpatents.pdf <hypatia> interesting <hypatia> it'd also be interesting to just look for existing .ca software patents <hypatia> that'll tell you how it's being interpreted :) <hypatia> and software patents don't typically just include "abstract theorems" so that doesn't really apply <cxo> yes, as long as it actually does something, then it gets closer to being allowed <cxo> go to page 18 of that doc <cxo> "software that has been integrated with statutory subject matter may be patentable. For a method to qualify as statutory subject matter, it must involve a physical act upon a physical object producing a physical change in character or condition, and ii) produce an essentially economic result relating to trade, industry, or commerce." <cxo> "essential economic result" haha <cxo> (and the lawyers go wild) * KombuchaKip mumbles to himself that he will make the first public announcement regarding Avaneya shortly and, for those who are not on it, but interested, recommends you get on the mailing list (www.avaneya.com). <cxo> Why is that? <KombuchaKip> cxo: Why do I mumble to myself or why am I making a public announcement? <KombuchaKip> cxo: If the former, I'm probably going senile prematurely. <cxo> I know why you were mumbling. But not what you were mumbling about. <KombuchaKip> cxo: There is a mailing list for the game that I am going to announce via. There's a lot of folks from ubuntu-ca that have been tracking the project, hence the mentioning it here. <cxo> What kind of game is it? Got any youtube footage? <KombuchaKip> cxo: Sorry man, it's late and I need to hit the sack. Take a look at website and faq on www.avaneya.com Good night. <benasp> Hi, I have a little question I run Office 2007 on wine and even though I installer MS font, the font displayed arn't quite right. When I compare what I see in wine and in virtualbox running the same file the font are different. Someone have an idea ? thank a lot <hypatia> benasp: did you install the ms fonts for wine or for ubuntu? <hypatia> benasp: i expect wine has its own font path <benasp> I installed corefonts via winetrick * hypatia uses crossover for ms office, sooooo worth the $40 :) <cxo> apt-get install ttf-mscorefonts-installer <hiko_hitokiri> Good afternoon <BobJonkman> Hello hiko_hitokiri ! <hiko_hitokiri> hi! BobJonkman <BobJonkman> Here for the Ubuntu IRC chat in a few hours? <hiko_hitokiri> yes <hypatia> oh right! <hypatia> thanks for the reminder, BobJonkman :D <BobJonkman> Said Mahatma: I must go, for they are leaving and I am their leader <dscassel> woo, meeting! <dscassel> (not yet, of course) <alexbh> hi, can sombody help me ... i have a question about my RAM <hypatia> alexbh: ask away :) <hypatia> and in the future, don't ask to ask, just ask <hypatia> saves everyone typing <alexbh> ko... the thing is... my RAM use is almost 50% but I m not using anything <cxo> How do you know its 50%? <hypatia> alexbh: what processes are taking it up? <alexbh> with "top", I get: gnome-system-moonitor, firefox <dscassel> alexbh: are you actually running Firefox? Are all the windows closed? * dscassel noticed a pretty serious memory leak in gnome-power-manager on my desktop machine. Had to get rid of it. <alexbh> i killed firefox now... <dscassel> That helps. :) <alexbh> but still... it is 23% <dscassel> 23% of what? <alexbh> and now... the only thing i have is the Xchat and the system montor <alexbh> 23% of use of RAM <dscassel> Yeah, but how much RAM? Trying to figure out if it's reasonable. <alexbh> ahh ok .. I have 1G so... 23% = 233 MB <dscassel> Like, right now, I have 40% RAM in use. But I've got Firefox and Gwibber going. <dscassel> alexbh: Yeah, that's not unreasonable for a gnome desktop. <hypatia> xchat is not exactly lightweight <alexbh> which one to use instead? <hypatia> i use irssi <hypatia> but it's commandline :s <hypatia> alexbh: http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssi , if you're feeling ambitious :) <alexbh> ummm i ll have a llok <alexbh> look <dscassel> Look at it this way: you RAM isn't going to do you any good if you're not using it. :) <alexbh_> hi.... im here again.. this time via command line.. but still 22% <hypatia> alexbh_: ah, so it's not xchat <hypatia> must just be gnome then :/ <alexbh_> i closed xchat and now i did login wit irssi <BobJonkman> We're all here for the meeting, right? <hypatia> i am! <dscassel> Yup! <BobJonkman> Yay! <BobJonkman> ...and anyone who's not here for the meeting, Welcome to the meeting! (any minute now) <dscassel> No txwikinger again. He's been busy lately... #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-15 <dscassel> Meeting time! <dscassel> Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings/2010-11-14 <dscassel> Feel free to introduce yourselves. I'm Darcy and I'm going to be facilitating. I'm in Waterloo, ON. <ZykoticK9> George from Ottawa. Hello all. <BobJonkman> I'm Bob, in Elmira, just north of Waterloo <hypatia> I'm Leigh, I'm in Toronto, and have been a bit of a flake lately :) <dscassel> Mass call! [thor] jaguar rgreening txwikinger FiReSTaRT kenjy RobotGrrl billybigrigger ilan IdleOne Kulag sipherdee willwh cxo SmartSsa zul Infoverload starcraftman <dscassel> Hi ZykoticK9! Did you guys have the Ubuntu Hour last week? <RobotGrrl> Hi ^^ <RobotGrrl> ooooh this is a meeting? nifty! <ZykoticK9> dscassel, yup - only 3 people showed up though (my fault for not advertising) <FiReSTaRT> yo yo yo <dscassel> Hi RobotGrrl. We're settling in for a bit of a meeting. <RobotGrrl> nice!! :D <BobJonkman> 3 people is good. <dscassel> ZykoticK9: Awesome. :D <hypatia> wooo meeting <cxo> huh? <dscassel> cxo: Meeting! We're going to talk about Ubuntu Canada stuffs. <dscassel> If you've never been before, let us know where you're from and (briefly) what you do, Ubuntu-wise. <FiReSTaRT> im just gonna step out for a quick smoke before we REALLY get into it :) * FiReSTaRT brb <dscassel> Sure. <vikram> Yup, from Ottawa, just a hacker. , and yes, that was me who left :) <vikram> Long time Redhat/Fedora convert <dscassel> vikram: Welcome! <dscassel> vikram: ZykoticK9 runs the monthly Ubuntu Hour in Ottawa, if you've never been. <dscassel> I'll give people a minute or two more to wander in. * BobJonkman waits impatiently for the cookies to be brought out <vikram> I've been writing a lot of GTK code recently. And been keen on the idea of formerly contributing to Ubuntu, if it could pay the bills <dscassel> BobJonkman: I didn't bring any cookies. But if you're willing to share... <dscassel> vikram: Ah, everyone's fondest dream. :) <dscassel> Anyway, let's get this thing going... <vikram> Very work in progress app that I have high hopes for, one day, http://amatory.sourceforge.net/ <dscassel> Like I said, agenda here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings/2010-11-14 <dscassel> Re-approval! <dscassel> We submitted our application and wait patiently for an official response. * FiReSTaRT back <dscassel> Looks good, though. We have several votes in our favour so far. No complaints. <hypatia> awesome <dscassel> The application is here, incidentally: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2010 <dscassel> I was hoping we'd hear back by the meeting, but it may be a day or two yet. I'll post to the ML when I hear officially. <dscassel> Administrivia! <dscassel> Our illustrious leader 2006-2010, Corey Burger actually stepped down a while ago. * FiReSTaRT looking over the application in its final form <dscassel> He said he'd stick around and help with the reapproval process. <dscassel> And now, he's quietly slipped away. <dscassel> txwikinger and I have stepped in to take the role of "LoCo contact." <hypatia> woot <dscassel> And I want to emphasize that it's "contact" and not "team leader" or anything like that. <FiReSTaRT> looking good.. i don't see why we wouldn't get approved <dscassel> Our job is to act as contact for the LoCo council, so they don't have to go trying to find people. <FiReSTaRT> how are we gonna select our new jefe? <BobJonkman> Do we need a Grand Poohbah? <dscassel> FiReSTaRT: We just did. Kind of. Like I said, we're more of an autonomous colective. <dscassel> :) <dscassel> Ideally, people just kind of get on with things. <FiReSTaRT> ahh ok.. i thought it was an interim measure.. not that i feel an overwhelming need for someone on top.. it was more like idle curiosity <hypatia> i think if it doesn't work, we can talk elections <hypatia> but let's see how they do? :) <dscassel> As far as I can tell, all a LoCo does, nationally, is run a website and maintain a few channels of communication. <FiReSTaRT> hypatia: won't hear any argument from me (another indicator that we're ok without a single head) <dscassel> I'd like to see groups spring up on a local level. And I'm not too picky about how they run themselves, either. <dscassel> So long as everyone plays nice. <FiReSTaRT> darcy: was it michael who wanted to run the show in toronto or am i way off? <dscassel> Michael? Is this recent? <FiReSTaRT> darcy: actually pretty stale.. probably at least 6 months old <dscassel> Is that genii? <FiReSTaRT> darcy: not sure.. i know i added him on the msn at the time but we never really got into it and haven't talked here <dscassel> Right now, hypatia is pretty much heading up Ubuntu Toronto, by virtue of the fact that she's here and she ran a release party. :) <FiReSTaRT> again, no arguments from me <hypatia> the current toronto plan is to alternate between hacklab and linuxcaffe <dscassel> I don't want people to get territorial or anything, either. We should be able to work together. <dscassel> (I hope, anyway) <FiReSTaRT> good plan.. actually i like the idea of being out and about, with the only real constraint being suitable locations <dscassel> Anyway, I'm going to be contacting the people with team admin status on Launchpad and see if they still want to participate. <FiReSTaRT> that's especially true for release parties where you REALLY need rj45 for installs <dscassel> And do a little bit of clean-up if they've moved on. <dscassel> We'll probably set up an admin team that we can add people to, but we can talk about that more next meeting. <hypatia> we did that with ubuntu women, it wasn't too tricky <dscassel> Yeah, the website team is like that too. <dscassel> (ubuntu-ca-website, that is) <BobJonkman> Speaking of Website... <dscassel> Indeed... <dscassel> Website! <hypatia> woooo website! <dscassel> Uh, no update, really. Still waiting on our ticket. <BobJonkman> http://ubuntu-ca.org/ <dscassel> Kinda frustrating. People I've talked to are sympathetic, but we're not the only ones waiting around. <FiReSTaRT> gotta love the red tape <dscassel> As a reminder, our future website is at this temporary address: http://ubuntu-ca.jankeconsulting.ca/ <dscassel> Looks like the twitter feed broke at some point. <dscassel> Anyway... <dscassel> If there's nothing else, last item on the agenda tonight... <dscassel> LUG Outreach! <dscassel> I sent a message to the mailing list, talking about what I'm thinking on this one. * FiReSTaRT eagerly waiting for darcy to start some discussion on mailing list and with individuals :P <FiReSTaRT> darcy: on a bit of a side-note, it looks like i'm not on it for some reason... ill add myself to it <dscassel> FiReSTaRT: Oh, yeah... It's been a busy few weeks. The next few aren't goign to slow down, either. :) <dscassel> Basically, if there's a LUG where you are, sign up on their mailing list and maybe attend a meeting. <dscassel> Let them know that we exist and we can help them publicize any tangentially Ubuntu-related events. <dscassel> And it would be nice if they'd join our ML, IRC and forum, so they can help people or get help as needed. * FiReSTaRT is pretty sure that hypatia knows that we exist :P <dscassel> FiReSTaRT: I mean TLUG or GTALUG. Things like that. <hypatia> FiReSTaRT: i'm aware, yes <dscassel> Anyways... The Linux community is really disconnected AFAICT. I know about my LUG, but not much more than that. <dscassel> Let's see if we can change that. * vikram sees no Canadian flag on http://ubuntu-ca.org/ <FiReSTaRT> that is a good idea and there isn't much info on the ecosystem out there <BobJonkman> I think the whole tech community is disconnected from each other. <dscassel> vikram: ubuntu-ca.org is problematic. We're trying to move to a different site so we can mess with the theme, etc. <BobJonkman> There are small movements afoot to fix that. Gotta be profitable for someone... * FiReSTaRT on th elist <vikram> We have something called CodeFactory in Ottawa, Have you heard of it? <dscassel> There was CLUE (http://cluecan.ca/). And I haven't ruled out working with them somehow. <dscassel> Don't seem quite as active lately... <vikram> http://thecodefactory.ca/ <vikram> I've given some Linux Boot Camp presentations there <vikram> (rather open source boot camp) <hypatia> i don't think CLUE really exists anymore <hypatia> ottawa also has the ModLab <dscassel> hypatia: I know Russel's still around doing stuff, but yeah. <hypatia> http://artengine.ca/modlab/index.php/Main_Page <dscassel> vikram: Maybe they'd be willing to let you give a presentation? <dscassel> I'm going to try to figure out how to do a "getting involved in Ubuntu" talk. I'll be happy to share whatever I come up with. <hypatia> sweet! <dscassel> That's all I had... If there's nothing else...? <BobJonkman> The re-approval application says something about reviving LinuxFest-- does that tie in? <dscassel> BobJonkman: Yeah, definitely. <BobJonkman> tie in with outreach, &c? <dscassel> I'm still sad about Linux fest. <BobJonkman> Me too. FSOSS didn't seem a suitable alternative <dscassel> No. I'd like to go, but it's not a user conf. <BobJonkman> I heard someone talking about SoOnCon2011 already ;-) Any Ubuntu tie-in to that? <dscassel> BobJonkman: txwikinger is the one involved in the LinuxFest stuff. He's being a bit coy about it (early days), but he might be willing to let you know what's going on there. <dscassel> BobJonkman: Yeah, we'll probably do something. I'm likely going to be there, anyway. <dscassel> It's a different focus, though. But there are lots of Ubuntu users there. <dscassel> http://sooncon.ca/wiki/Main_Page <hypatia> sooncon was awesome :D <BobJonkman> Whoa! 2012!! <vikram> haha <dscassel> Yeah. :D <hypatia> 2012 is SoOnCamp, which will also be epic <hypatia> 2011 is going to hopefully be held in downtown toronto at...drumroll.... <hypatia> the bell lightbox <hypatia> o_0 <dscassel> 2011 will be in Toronto. 2012 has taken over the front page due to epicness. <hypatia> nerd camping ftw <vikram> and whats with the logo even <dscassel> :D <dscassel> vikram: You're still lauren32@example.com? <dscassel> Don't lauren32@example.com. It's painful. <vikram> no soonco.ca... <dscassel> Oh, that. I have no idea, actually. <dscassel> I think it was just meant to look cool laser-etched on ABS plastic and side-lit by LEDs. <dscassel> (That tends to be the sort of aesthetic this crowd goes for. :) <vikram> I have a 1hr presentation to give to an Engineering Management class at the University of Ottawa this Wednesday on Using and Producing open sauce. Could throw some Ubuntuism into the mix <dscassel> vikram: Awesome. <dscassel> Mm, open sauce. <hypatia> vikram: cool! have you seen the "Producing Open Source Software" book the svn folks wrote? <vikram> I've heard of it. Havent read it <hypatia> it's great :) <vikram> My talk will be very much about $$ related things. Politics, Legal issues. All the yucky stuff actually :) <hypatia> that's a lot of what that book is about <hypatia> :) <hypatia> also worthwhile: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 <willwh> hi guys <willwh> sorry I'm late! <dscassel> Hi willwh, just wrapping up. :) <willwh> bah <dscassel> Anything you'd like to add before we close it down? <willwh> nope :) <dscassel> (Feel free to stick around, of course :) <vikram> I'll embed subliminal "Use Ubuntu" slides inbetween pages. Given the crowd is usually made up of Apple users. They might not even get it <dscassel> Okay, I'll formally end the meeting. Thanks everyone. :) <dscassel> vikram: don't let me interrupt. :) * FiReSTaRT blows chunks at the very mention of (cr)apple <vikram> Actually getting Apple consumers to use Ubuntu on the desktop is a good initiative in my opinion. <FiReSTaRT> small market and most of them already received HUGE doses of kool-aid <vikram> There are a lot more people using iPhones and Windows than an entire Apple ecosystem <willwh> hey vikram; I'd be interesting to read your notes - as I obviously won't be at your talk <willwh> that sounds like the kind of icky stuff I'm interested in. <hypatia> there are plenty of people using iCrap who are unhappy with it :) <vikram> really? <hypatia> oh for sure <willwh> indeed <vikram> I thought the saying was "Apple users love their Macs, and PC users 'put up' with their PCs" <willwh> well talking to a few friends, some devs... <willwh> osx does some silly things <willwh> especially in the shell <vikram> Do you guys know whats happening with the *office on the next Ubuntu? Is it going to be libreoffice based or OO.org? <hypatia> it's already go-oo <hypatia> but i think the plan is to go with libreoffice <willwh> well, many people are not so hot on oracle <willwh> will be interesting to see what happens to OOo <hypatia> snorcle <vikram> I'm worried with all the brand recognition that would be lost if not going with openoffice <willwh> I certainly think that is an issue vikram <vikram> I mean people know what OpenOffice is. And even Microsoft has started actively campaigning against it. Its definitely a sign its on the way up <dscassel> But if Oracle owns the brand and they're willing to let it stagnate, what's the alternative? <vikram> (If you guys havent seen their latest campaign yet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoZv6Gb_mYo ) <willwh> I have not. <dscassel> Yeah, saw that. :) <vikram> I dont know what Oracle is doing. They are chasing everyone using Java now with their "java patents" <vikram> HTC and Motorola are now both in court because Google is too big for Oracle to chew on <vikram> I wonder what would have happened if SUN didnt GPL Java before the acquisition. What might have happened <willwh> hrm, interesting vid <dscassel> Thank heavens for free software. :) <vikram> Well Gandhi knew what he was talking about. All this modern management literature (Innovators Solution) just points to that business of incumbents first ignoring you. If you're keeping score, next stage is, we win <vikram> I take that ad campaign as a "Hello World. We now recognise openoffice as being on par with Microsoft Office" * BobJonkman is working on meeting minutes <BobJonkman> We didn't really accomplish much, did we? <dscassel> Thanks, BobJonkman <dscassel> Not as many exciting things going on. <dscassel> We're going to have to start making our own excitement. :) <BobJonkman> Basically, we checked off each agenda item, nodded our heads and said "Yup, uh huh." <hypatia> BobJonkman: much of the accomplishment is just in showing up <hypatia> :) <dscassel> BobJonkman: It would probably help if people had jobs, but I don't even know what *I*'m supposed to do half the time. :) <BobJonkman> dscassel: Well, as long as you know what to do the other half of the time :-) <dscassel> One thing I like out of this is reporting on the stuff you've done. Which I noticed got left out of this meeting. * dscassel said in passive voice, knowing full well he was the one who left it out. <dscassel> Monthly report time is two weeks away, but it doesn't hurt. <dscassel> Maybe we should formalize the city team thing a little. Then have people do team reports at the meeting... <dscassel> Maybe? <hypatia> we should at least have reporting on the agenda for next meeting <BobJonkman> There was the report on the Ottawa Ubuntu Hour <BobJonkman> OK, minutes done. Pls check and fix any deficiencies: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings/2010-11-14#Minutes <dscassel> Awesome. Thanks, BobJonkman. <dscassel> Ugh. OpenOffice.org just crashed gdm for the second time. <dscassel> It really doesn't like me dragging stuff around this presentation. <dscassel> I'm starting to believe that Microsoft video.. <KombuchaKip> Wow, Ubuntu Vancouver made a great promo video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i22efbYLj70 * hiko_hitokiri is away: Estoy ocupado #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-16 * hiko_hitokiri is away: Estoy ocupado <hypatia> hey hiko_hitokiri, please turn off your /away script * You're now known as ubuntulog * You're now known as ubuntulog_ * You're now known as ubuntulog #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-17 <KombuchaKip> Avaneya first public announcement: https://www.avaneya.com/news/announcements/ <vikram> screenshots? <Yompa> I guess it's too early for screen shots. If the project is young it could take a long time before anything that would represent the game visually is ready. I have no idea, just skimmed the FAQ myself. #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-18 * KombuchaKip apologizes to anyone who tried to read the newsletter from IE. It apparently chokes on trying to autodetect utf-16. Fixed now: https://www.avaneya.com/news/announcements/ #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-19 <bkanuka> hey, anyone out there? <bkanuka> pshh don't pretend you have something better to do than sit on IRC all day :p <dscassel> Canadians. We're productive, I guess. <KombuchaKip> dscassel: Definitely. #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-20 <bkanuka> hey anyone there? <Yompa> Sure, but I probably have no answers if that's what you are looking for :-) <bkanuka> cool. no im not really here for question. I just joined the loco group <bkanuka> i don't really know what a loco team is all about, but since I've set a few of my friends up on ubuntu, I figured I'm already half way to what you guys do <Yompa> Haha, I think we are on the same level then. Not even sure what or where to join, just started browsing myself. Idling a bit on this channel to learn. <bkanuka> ya okay. I'm kinda wondering if there is a "leader" <bkanuka> also, I want some ubuntu stickers! :p <Yompa> I wouldn't expect a leader directly in a community like this. There are leading figures however. Some are on this channel I figure. <Yompa> Stickers would be cool :-) <Yompa> There is also a ubuntu-ca mailing list, that's usually more action than this channel. <Yompa> *Strangely* * KombuchaKip yawns * dscassel is reading the log from yesterday. <dscassel> bkanuka: what do you need? <dscassel> bkanuka: (besides stickers? :) <bkanuka> i don't actually need anything :P i was just saying, Im here. I want to get involved in helping or spreading ubuntu <dscassel> bkanuka: Awesome. :D <dscassel> Where are you? Physically? <bkanuka> I live in Kingston, ON. I go to school at Queen's <bkanuka> my parents live downtown toronto, so I'm there often <dscassel> Cool. We're starting to get Toronto events going again. Having events in Kingston would be cool. <bkanuka> there's not many people in Kingston :p <bkanuka> but I was definitely thinking I could promote things here <dscassel> I'm taking an "if you build it, they will come" approach. <dscassel> Build it and publicize, anyway. <bkanuka> ya - i agree with that <dscassel> But yeah, whatever you think is best, really. <dscassel> The easiest thing you can do, event-wise, is the Ubuntu Hour. <bkanuka> please explain <dscassel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour <dscassel> It's just a regular, scheduled meetup at a local coffee shop or watering hole. <dscassel> Provide a place for people to show up and say hi. And maybe accost strangers with CDs. <bkanuka> i can definitely do this <dscassel> Fantastic. :) <IdleOne> when accosting strangers, make sure not to sneak up on them :) <IdleOne> We don't want people running away screaming and stuff <dscassel> Yeah. Generally, you wait for them to come to you... <bkanuka> haha ya <dscassel> Put up a big sign and people drop by and ask what's up. <bkanuka> well i go to university, so its really nothing for me to sit somewhere and do homework <dscassel> Yup <dscassel> That's the spirit. :D <dscassel> There's also release parties every six months. <dscassel> That can be big and elaborate, or it can be just a bunch of people meeting up at a pub or something. <dscassel> I recommend starting with the latter. :) <bkanuka> im gonna start with the hour first <dscassel> Sounds good to me. :) <bkanuka> will people have a problem with me "setting up" somewhere? <dscassel> Generally, not really. I haven't run into problems. <dscassel> It's probably courteous to ask staff ahead of time... <bkanuka> ya <dscassel> When you have a time and place, add the event here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ca <dscassel> Then people in the Ubuntu community who happen to be in Kingston have a chance at finding it. <bkanuka> okay <IdleOne> take pictures and blog about it afterwards, come here and link us. <dscassel> Yeah, that's much appreciated. :) <IdleOne> and yeah, most places i am sure would be fine with having "customers" in their business but asking first is always nice. <dscassel> If you're on twitter or identi.ca, tweet/dent about it using the #locoteams tag, and the !ubuntuca group on identi.ca <bkanuka> okay <IdleOne> bkanuka: basically it isn't hard to do just takes someone to go ahead and do it :) <dscassel> Yup. Just publicize a bit and go sit in a cafe. :) <dscassel> Leigh (hypatia) was talking about starting on in Toronto, but I think she's been busy. <dscassel> starting one, that is. <bkanuka> I can do an hour a week <bkanuka> do these things turn into tech support? <dscassel> They can. <dscassel> I've had one guy show up with tech support problems. <dscassel> I wouldn't worry about trying to be an all-knowing expert. <dscassel> If you can't solve the problem, show them the forums, or #ubuntu. See if someone there can help. <dscassel> Or askubuntu.com <bkanuka> are there template advertisements? <dscassel> I don't have one, but you can look around here: http://spreadubuntu.org/ <bkanuka> thats it. i was trying to find that site :p <bkanuka> in other news, have you patched your kernel with that ~200 line patch that speeds things up? <bkanuka> if you dont know what i'm talking about i can find an article <dscassel> Nope. I tend to avoid messing with the kernel. <dscassel> At best, I'll maybe upgrade to mainline if I need to. Or if it's the only way to get some hardware working. <bkanuka> well then look forward to it getting pushed through to ubuntu <bkanuka> it really works <bkanuka> im always skeptical of any kind of quick fix, but this is really good <dscassel> Good to know. :) <bkanuka> oh now honestly, i was going to buy some stickers from canonical, but the shipping was pretty steep. Is there somewhere in Canada I can buy them? <dscassel> Not really. I'm out of the new Canonical stickers, after the last couple events. <dscassel> They come free in conference packs, if you're thinking about running a booth at a tech conference... :) <dscassel> I can ask txwikinger and see if he has a better way to get them to you than ordering from Canonical. <dscassel> I have some of System76's "Powered by Ubuntu" stickers with the old tricolour circle of friends. <dscassel> as well as keyboard stickers to cover Windows logos. :) <bkanuka> ya i saw system76's stickers <dscassel> I can send those off to you if you want to /msg me your address. <bkanuka> oh <bkanuka> okay. thanks <bkanuka> i don't know what you mean by /msg <bkanuka> i've been on irc for like a day <dscassel> private message. Start with "/msg dscassel" on most clients. (I know it works on irssi...) <dscassel> This channel is logged and posted publicly. You may not want to put your address here. :) <dscassel> You can also just email lauren32@example.com <bkanuka> that's what i'll do before i get comfortable with irc <dscassel> Sure. :) <bkanuka> and right now im using empathy, and i know it's lacking some irc commands #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-23 <ball> Hello BobJonkman <ball> Hrllo RobotGrrl <RobotGrrl> :o Howdy ball <dscassel> Morning, Canada #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-24 <BobJonkman> dscassel, did you announce your good news here? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-ca/2010-November/007775.html <dscassel> Oh, right. Hey, team, we're re-approved! :) <IdleOne> dscassel: Good job everybody :) #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-25 <BobJonkman> Talk about your lags in the conversation... #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-26 <Infoverload> Hi #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-28 <MikeS11> good evening ubuntu-ca #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-29 <MikeS11> hello ubuntu-ca <Yompa> Hello MikeS11 <MikeS11> greycup <MikeS11> what's score? <MikeS11> nvm. just started watching it. <MikeS11> 11-8 for mont. <MikeS11> 11-11 <MikeS11> sask or montreal? <MikeS11> sask eh <MikeS11> they have 26 seconds to make me happy <BobJonkman> MikeS11 - Time's up, how's things? <MikeS11> lol. montreal wins <MikeS11> i'm not actually that worried about it. i'm in BC, so i was just rooting for the west. <ball> Hello Yompa <Yompa> Greetings ball <ball> Now I must scream and run. #ubuntu-ca 2010-11-30 <BobJonkman> Any Channel Ops around to change the /topic to show that we *have* LoCo re-approval? <tonyyarusso> None of them are here right now (!), but you're probably most likely to find hypatia. <BobJonkman> OK, I'll bug her when she show. dscassel may have ChanOp too <dscassel> BobJonkman: Nope, I don't. I probably should, I guess. <BobJonkman> So the world revolves around hypatia ... <dscassel> Yup. <tonyyarusso> The people who have ops currently are Burgundavia, Madpilot, hypatia, and coleSLAW. <dscassel> Corey (Burgundavia), Brian (Madpilot) and Simon (coleSLAW) are all admins from the original team. They aren't around much anymore. <MikeS11> Hey ubuntu-ca <dscassel> Hey, MikeS11 <dscassel> What's up? <MikeS11> Nothing much. About to tackle a nagios install for the 3rd time. <dscassel> Ooh, fun. <MikeS11> Yeah. New guide, this one was suggested by somebody in #nagios <MikeS11> I'm expecting it to go better <dscassel> Good luck! <MikeS11> Thanks. <dscassel> tonyyarusso: If I can swing it, would you be interested in being an op? * tonyyarusso knows Nagios, might be able to help MikeS11, fyi <tonyyarusso> dscassel: I'm fine with the duties (I'm an op in #ubuntu), but I'm not really around here terribly regularly. <MikeS11> If I run headlong into a wall (built of fire or otherwise) I'll try him, thanks. <tonyyarusso> Also, there's a PPA (~nagiosinc) if you insist on having the latest version. <tonyyarusso> (installing things from source is yucky) <MikeS11> tonyyarusso: just noticed your an OP on #nagios. also, yes. source is yicky. this time its apt-get <dscassel> tonyyarusso: Noted. <tonyyarusso> dscassel: Find me a job offer in Thunder Bay next year and I'll suddenly become more common ;) <dscassel> tonyyarusso: I have a friend in Nipigon I could ask... <tonyyarusso> dscassel: Really? That would actually be useful. <tonyyarusso> dscassel: Backstory if you don't remember: I'm currently in the US (where I was born), going to school. Once I finish my degree I would like to emigrate to Canada, with Thunder Bay being my 1st choice for destination city, and doing so will be vastly easier with a job offer at that time. <dscassel> I'll see what I can do... :) <tonyyarusso> If it helps, you can tell him that 'nipigon' is the hostname of my netbook ;) <dscassel> Her. And considering she's the economic development officer for the town, that might help. :) <tonyyarusso> Her, righto. Awesome :P <MikeS11> nagios installed <MikeS11> :D\ <MikeS11> http://jsquaredconsulting.com/blog/2010/11/installing-nagios-on-ubuntu-10-10/ <MikeS11> i was using this guide <MikeS11> basically it just told me apt-get install nagios3 <MikeS11> tonyyarusso: does installing it from apt give me the plugins also? <tonyyarusso> MikeS11: It can - they're in a separate package (nagios-plugins) <tonyyarusso> Those are further broken down into -standard, -extra, -snmp, -basic, and -nrpe. nagios-plugins depends on -basic and -standard; the rest you can get separately. <MikeS11> tonyyarusso: thanks. <tonyyarusso> See also nagios-images, nagios-nrpe-server, and nsca packages, although be warned that the nagios-images package is being dropped upstream in Debian due to licensing uncertainty. <MikeS11> its just icons mostly yes? <tonyyarusso> yeah <tonyyarusso> Mostly trademarked icons :P <MikeS11> o no <MikeS11> hehe <MikeS11> Do I have to install the docs seperately? <MikeS11> It is telling me that /nagios3/docs/index.html is missing. <MikeS11> and I verified that this isn't just a permissions issue. <tonyyarusso> MikeS11: Yes, Ubuntu & Debian packaging frequently breaks out documentation for significantly-sized things into a separate package. <MikeS11> tonyyarusso: I just looked, and sure enough there was a nagios3-doc package. *sigh* * dscassel changed the topic of #ubuntu-ca to: Ubuntu Canada LocoTeam channel! Welcome! | http://www.ubuntu-ca.org/ | WikiPage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam | Forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=395 | S.V.P utilisez #ubuntu-qc
{'channel': 'ubuntu-ca', 'month': 11}