#ubuntu-za 2011-02-01 <Symmetria> For those of you that arent on the list I posted this to: <Symmetria> http://pastebin.com/Uhr2j6rr <superfly> Symmetria: what about Telkom and IPC, from what I've heard, IPC does not support IPv6 <Symmetria> superfly LOL, thats going to be a... screwup :) though I.S and others still have a way to provide V6 over tunnels if they are forced to <Symmetria> though I think Telkom may find itself under some pressure <superfly> my ADSL (when it's eventually back up and running) is via IS, so that's good to know <superfly> but everyone with ADSL goes through IPC - it's going to be fun ;-) <Symmetria> heh, I have DSL at home and native IPv6 at home (well, as native as the V4 is) <Symmetria> but thats using L2TP back to the TENET NAS <Symmetria> I.S can provide V6 to its business DSL clients who are already on static ips <Symmetria> its the normal home user thats going to be problematic <superfly> ah, ok <superfly> which is me <Symmetria> you're gonna need to tunnel your ass unless the ISPs get sorted <superfly> that's what I'm figuring <superfly> though I first need to get my network IPv6 compliant, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue, from what I've heard <bmg505> They deserve all the shit that is coming their way, this problem has been predicted ad nausium and the bean counters kept it down, its time to get all these financial whizz kids that thought they were clever to impliment ipv6 and switch the ipv4 network off :) <superfly> heya, morning bmg505 <bmg505> good moaning :) <superfly> mmmm.... another fan of "Allo Allo"? <bmg505> what is allo allo? <superfly> an old british tv program about a cafe owner in german-occupied france in ww2 <superfly> one of the characters used to say, "good moaning" <bmg505> o cool <bmg505> this ipv4 saga is basically the same as the alsa saga in linux or am I wrong? <superfly> "Good Moaning" -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGNVU5ZjlgA * bmg505 hits face on the table <bmg505> my slamd64 is b0rked, need to move to another workstation to see that <bmg505> lets see if the iphone can do it <bmg505> damn its working very well o nthe iphone, what is a good irc client for iphone4? mine is jail broken <bmg505> wektime bbl <superfly> bmg505: Colloquy <sakhi> moonin <superfly> ohi sakhi <inetpro> good evening <superfly> good night <bmg505> happy mailman day :) <drubin> woohoo <drubin> hi david <david> Hi drubin <DraZoro> Hello drubin and david <DraZoro> Hello loco team <david> Hi DraZoro <DraZoro> Maaz: coffee on * Maaz washes some mugs <Maaz> Coffee's ready for DraZoro! <DraZoro> Maaz : Thanks <Maaz> DraZoro: Sure #ubuntu-za 2011-02-02 <superfly> morning everyone ;-) <superfly> cocooncrash: this sounds a little FUDy to me... http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/ <sakhi> morning superfly <superfly> morning sakhi! <superfly> inetpro: that blog post is more FUD than fact... sure it takes longer, but that doesn't make it any safer <superfly> just longer to crach <superfly> *crack * inetpro that were my thoughts as well <inetpro> superfly: its interesting nevertheless <cocooncrash> superfly: It's true <cocooncrash> Password hashing should be slow. <cocooncrash> (Nimbula uses bcrypt ;-) ) <cocooncrash> Maaz: 62**8 <Maaz> cocooncrash: 218340105584896 <cocooncrash> Maaz: 218340105584896/700000000/3600 <Maaz> cocooncrash: 86.6428990416 <cocooncrash> Just over 3 days to bruteforce an 8 character alphunumeric password hashed with MD5 using 4 GPUs. <cocooncrash> s/MD5/SHA1/ <cocooncrash> (See also scrypt, which is designed to protect against hardware attacks by forcing more memory to be used.) <cocooncrash> http://www.tarsnap.com/scrypt.html <superfly> cocooncrash: but it doesn't make it more difficult to hack, just slower <cocooncrash> http://chargen.matasano.com/chargen/2007/9/7/enough-with-the-rainbow-tables-what-you-need-to-know-about-s.html <cocooncrash> superfly: Which is the whole point <cocooncrash> Days is feasible, centuries is not. <cocooncrash> Maaz: 86.6428990416 * 1000 / 24 <Maaz> cocooncrash: 3610.1207934 <cocooncrash> If you use a hash function 1000 times slower than SHA1, then it'll take abotu 10 years to bruteforce an 8 character password. <superfly> cocooncrash: like I said, slower doesn't mean safer... it's a side effect that the person will probably give up, but I wouldn't call that "safe" <cocooncrash> But if you change your password once a year, it becomes highly unlikely that it'll be bruteforce if the expected time is 5 years <cocooncrash> If the expected time is a day or two it becomes very possible <cocooncrash> superfly: All cryptography is based on the premise that it is not feasible to bruteforce <tumbleweed> it's also pretty safe to say anything you encrypt today can be trivially decrypted in the future <cocooncrash> If you use bcrypt with a 100ms hashing time, the expected time becomes centuries. <cocooncrash> Maaz: 218340105584896 / 10 / 50000 / 4 / 3600 / 24 <Maaz> cocooncrash: 1263.54227769 <cocooncrash> 3 years to bruteforce an 8 character password with 100ms bcrypt hashing using the whole of EC2. <Tonberry> damn <cocooncrash> Maaz: 62**10 / 10 / 50000 / 4 / 3600 / 24 / 365 <Maaz> cocooncrash: 13307.0041519 <cocooncrash> 13 centuries for a 10 character passsword. * drubin likes this conversation <drubin> superfly: Where did that link just randomly come from? <superfly> drubin: you mean where did I find it? <drubin> superfly: Well you kinda popped out of the blue and pasted that link to cocooncrash <drubin> jut wanted to know context (although it was interesting0 <superfly> drubin: just that I tihnk cocooncrash has recommended bcrypt to be before <tumbleweed> marcog: your xdg-open bug got accepted into maverick-proposed. Care to test it? <marcog> tumbleweed: i've starred it, will test <queery> Ubuntu hour Sunday 12pm Gino's, Stellenbosch <queery> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/666/detail/ <inetpro> drubin: I tweeted it but seriously, don't ask me where I got it, I can't remember <drubin> inetpro: tweeted what? <inetpro> 02/02 10:33:06 <drubin> superfly: Where did that link just randomly come from? <drubin> inetpro: Ah hehe <tumbleweed> marcog: nice, someone else dealt with it <marcog> tumbleweed: i assume that means i don't have to do anything? <tumbleweed> indeed <marcog> obviously it was quite the me too bug <tumbleweed> marcog: I suffered that bug for ages :) <marcog> with chrome? <tumbleweed> chromium <marcog> same thing :P <tumbleweed> not at all <marcog> same thing <tumbleweed> nobody even knows what's in chrome <froztbyte> Maaz: reverse karmaladder <Maaz> froztbyte: 0: ubuntuforums (-3), 1: tomtom (-2), 2: empathy (-2), 3: hal (-1), 4: virtualbox (-1), 5: KnightRider (-1), 6: car services (-1), 7: kde (-1), 8: ucf (-1), 9: virtualenv (-1), 10: drl (-1), 11: wordpress (-1), 12: Nokia (-1), 13: opendns (-1), 14: digests (-1), 15: kspread (-1), 16: --. --- --- -.. -- --- .-. -. .. -. (-1), 17: Nepomuk (-1), 18: Virtuoso (-1), 19: Strigi (-1), 20: KDE's Desktop Search (-1), 21: sars (0), 22: w <tumbleweed> seems like we are rather positive around here <froztbyte> Maaz: karmaladder <Maaz> froztbyte: 0: superfly (20), 1: cocooncrash (18), 2: maiatoday (11), 3: drubin (10), 4: tumbleweed (10), 5: Vhata (8), 6: morgs (7), 7: confluency (6), 8: highvoltage (6), 9: Kilos (6), 10: ubuntu-za (2), 11: nuvolari (2), 12: russell (2), 13: Symmetria (2), 14: |3o|3 (2), 15: yusuf (2), 16: youtube-dl (1), 17: ScorpKing (1), 18: Web Africa (1), 19: Lenovo (1), 20: fnb (1), 21: ibid devs (1), 22: Hodgestar (1), 23: Android (1), 24: doghouse <linuxboy> Maaz: morsecode --. --- --- -.. -- --- .-. -. .. -. <Maaz> linuxboy: Encodes as -.-. --- -.. . -....- -....- .-.-.- -....- -....- -....- -....- -....- -....- -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- -....- -....- -....- -....- -....- .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- -....- .-.-.- <tumbleweed> Maaz: morse --. --- --- -.. -- --- .-. -. .. -. <Maaz> tumbleweed: Decodes as GOOD MORNIN <superfly> how did I get up there? <tumbleweed> Maaz: superfly ftw [[ clearly ]] <queery> bye <superfly> cocooncrash: that grub error i'm getting is actually "out of disk" <cocooncrash> superfly: Hrm <cocooncrash> return grub_error (GRUB_ERR_OUT_OF_RANGE, "%s out of disk", disk->name); <cocooncrash> superfly: Looks like a geometry issue actually <superfly> nope, no disk name, just "error: out of disk." <cocooncrash> Oh <cocooncrash> So that seems to happen if it's got a sector number that lies outside the disk <superfly> I booted into a live cd and did a grub-install, so now I get "GRUB loading." and then "error: out of disk.", and then the grub rescue prompt <cocooncrash> Only thing I can think of is that the partition table has a partition extending past the last sector <nuvolari> ooh :> I have karma :D <nuvolari> ok, home time <cocooncrash> gtg <Kilos> evening superfly and every one else <Kilos> we got data again yoohoo <Kilos> used gumtree for the first time <Kilos> lo bmg505 how do you do <superfly> Kilos: I got ADSL, uncapped, no more data worries for me <Kilos> hehe that so lekker superfly <Kilos> is it darem faster <superfly> I already downloaded like 9 or 10 gigs last night <superfly> Kilos: no, it's about the same speed as my HSDPA <Kilos> aw <Kilos> mind you with ians modem here on hsdpa it was fast at times <Kilos> much better than a cell <superfly> Kilos: ja, I had the super fast modem <Kilos> oh well, at least you rid of the data cap hassle <Kilos> and the costs of course <superfly> when I get that sorted out, yes <superfly> for this month (and probably next) I'm paying double :-( <Kilos> eish <Kilos> at least now I can do a clean install here and get rid of that bug <superfly> ah, cocooncrash... "19457 cylinders" ... "19267 - 19458" <superfly> that doesn't look quite right <cocooncrash> That looks a bit dubious <cocooncrash> Try to work in sectors though, fdisk should set CHS sensibly <cocooncrash> fdisk -u <superfly> yeah, i've done that - still getting that error <neil__> hey all nlsthzn here *waves*... how to upgrade from Kubuntu 10.10 to 11.04... ubuntu is easy, I am finding Kubuntu a bitt less so <superfly> neil__: how are you doing it? via alternate CD or via apt-get and friends? <neil__> want to use apt-get or what ever means to do it via the net... ubuntu I would just run update-manager -d -c but in Kubuntu I am stumped :/ <bmg505> 10 months and 23 days to xmas :) <bmg505> hello south africa <neil__> so long to wait for x-mas QQ <neil__> just run do-release-upgrade and added a -d and something is happening... cheers <Kilos> hi neil__ bmg505 <Kilos> bmg505, where are you <neil__> Kilos: hey uncle :) <Kilos> hehe <neil__> thanks... IRC server going down for maintenance... catch u guys later <Kilos> cheers neil__ <superfly> cocooncrash: I just did a complete reinstall, and I still get that stupid error <superfly> recreated the partitions, everything <Morganvd> hey folks <superfly> ohi * superfly restarts to experience KDE 4.6 <Morganvd> lol <Morganvd> superfly: you having issues * Symmetria contemplates doing remote medical procedures over south african internet * Symmetria is scared at the very thought <Symmetria> "Sorry about the 3 dead people, the internet went down" <Kilos> hehe <Symmetria> "Please do nawt be fishing the med today, if you cut SEMEWE people gonna dieeeee" <Kilos> night all. sleep tight <cocooncrash> superfly: Oh bleh <superfly> indeed <cocooncrash> Try using grub-legacy? <cocooncrash> fp #ubuntu-za 2011-02-03 <sakhi> mooning <inetpro> good morning <superfly> morning sakhi, inetpro <superfly> Morganvd: I did have some issues, but they were my own doing <inetpro> superfly: hi <inetpro> superfly: did you read arstechnica? <inetpro> Nokia takes its MeeGo theme code offline, likely preparing custom UI http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/02/nokia-takes-its-meego-theme-code-offline-likely-preparing-custom-ui.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss <superfly> inetpro: not yet... interesting <superfly> inetpro: "Nokia has taken major steps over the past year to increase the transparency of Qt development and wouldn't lightly decide to hide such a critically important part. The move suggests that Nokia is working on its custom MeeGo look and feel and wants to keep certain elements of the user interface design under wraps for competitive reasons until the first MeeGo product is unveiled." <superfly> I think that's most likely the case <inetpro> superfly: for sure <inetpro> they should just call it a code freeze <superfly> inetpro: except it's not <inetpro> ok <inetpro> tough new world we live in <superfly> reboot time... KDE 4.6 here I come! <superfly> w00t, now just to fetch all my themes again <nuvolari> morningz everyone :) <superfly> ohi nuvolari <sakhi> how do I escape "@" again in the password section? export http_proxy=http://username:p@ssword@proxyip:port/ <Symmetria> LOL! <Symmetria> How is this for a query sent to an ISP <Symmetria> Hello! <Symmetria> We are interested to rent a dedicated server for the projects, which could potentially complain. Such as - Warez and Malware <Symmetria> Can you do it? If yes, we are interested in conditions and prices? <Symmetria> hahahahahahaha <Symmetria> thats funny as hell <sakhi> :) <superfly> sakhi: I think you use % and then the hexadecimal character code <nuvolari> :O * nuvolari wants to be a possum and play dead x.x <Morganvd> Symmetria: you work at a isp <superfly> Morganvd: no, he operates one of the biggest networks in south africa <Morganvd> nice <inetpro> corrie206: wb #ubuntu-za 2011-02-04 <nlsthzn> Morning all... <bmg505> gmsa <nlsthzn> bmg505: Now I have that Jingle from the early morning TV show GMSA in my head :p <nlsthzn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udhd9fmOdCs&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-1r-9-HM <superfly> morning nlsthzn, bmg505 <nlsthzn> hi superfly :) <nuvolari> morningz superfly, nlsthzn, bmg505 <superfly> sup nuvolari <nuvolari> I'm good and you superfly? <superfly> good, good <superfly> enjoying my uncapped <nlsthzn> nuvolari: Hey <nlsthzn> superfly: so what u dl? <superfly> nlsthzn: talks from the local LUG, for instance (the big ones... 1.5-2G) <superfly> http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3ACLUGtalks&sort=-publicdate <nlsthzn> wow... but why would they be so big?! <superfly> cause they're supposedly high quality ;-) <nlsthzn> video? <superfly> nlsthzn: yup <nlsthzn> superfly: makes sense then I guess :) <sakhi> moonin <superfly> yo sakhi <pascal`> hey <superfly> hi pascal` <pascal`> hey superfly <pascal`> I've got a bit of a silly question <pascal`> Do you know what the syntax is to create an HTML hyperlink that will open a network location with Nautilus? <superfly> I don't use Gnome, I'm afraid <pascal`> well whatever <pascal`> I just need to open a network location from a hyperlink <pascal`> The file manager isn't important <superfly> well, the file manager is important, because it might put a hook into your browser to open special "protocols" <superfly> but to answer your question, there is no HTML hyperlink <pascal`> Well, specifying the smb protocal just does nothing for me <pascal`> i.e. I click the link and nothing happens <superfly> HTML hyperlinks support http, https, ftp, and a few other web-centric protocols <superfly> yes, smb will do nothing because it's not a web protocol, and your browser does not know how to handle it <pascal`> I'm administering a heterogeneous network, and just want to make it easy for everyone on the network to have quick access to a shared directory <pascal`> It should prompt you to select an application to use to open the URL though <superfly> nope, not if it doesn't understand the protocol <pascal`> Strange that it works on OSX and Windows then <superfly> pascal`: where and how? you still haven't told me what application you are using <pascal`> I'm using firefox on mac and ie on windows <superfly> and I'm not tell you it won't work, I'm telling you why it currently doesn't work <superfly> yeah, mac and windows probably have registered those protocol <superfly> s <pascal`> have a little test html page with a hyperlink on for each OS <pascal`> i'm trying to get a working hyperlink for ubuntu, but from what you've said, I don't think I'm going to be able to get it to work <superfly> just like you can register the apt: protocol in Firefox on Ubuntu to open your package manager <pascal`> Yeah, I understand <superfly> pascal`: on KDE/Konqueror I know can use the smb protocol, but I don't know how to get Firefox to do that <pascal`> Thanks for your help <pascal`> yeah I remember that <superfly> I'm sure a bit of googling will uncover something <pascal`> What is "googling"? <pascal`> Yeah dude, I've looked around <pascal`> the protocol just isn't registered by default, and it'll be quicker for me to explain to the staff how to open the network location manually, than to explain how to register the protocol <pascal`> Maybe I can give them a link file or something <inetpro> pascal`: see http://locallink.mozdev.org/ <pascal`> thanks inetpro <Symmetria> gah <Symmetria> *annoyed* <Symmetria> how the hell do people afford to buy houses in capetown <Symmetria> seriously <froztbyte> by sitting in debt for 20 years? <Symmetria> froztbyte heh, dude, I earn good money, and the pricing is so insane I couldnt come close to affording most of the decent places <Symmetria> you're looking at bond repayments of 20+ thousand a month <froztbyte> yup, I know <froztbyte> I've looked before <Symmetria> and lol, when you're paying 20 grand a month in a bond repayment + paying off car + other expenses, its just not realistic <froztbyte> obviously you need to become part of silicon cape and spend your time getting paid 1.2mil/year to talk bullshit <froztbyte> (has anyone from that even done anything yet, or is it just a cashwank?) <bmg505> 20k for house, 10k for insurance, 20k for car, 50k for wife, 20k/kid that is more the budget :( <bmg505> a hooker 24 month contract would probably only cost about 5k/month <nuvolari> hi guys, what could the diff be (in practice) between 2 files where the hexcode differs only in the following: <nuvolari> < 0000000 feca beba 0000 3100 2c00 000a 0005 0926 <nuvolari> > 0000000 feca beba 0000 3200 2c00 000a 0005 0926 <froztbyte> that's entirely dependant on what sort of file you're talking about <nuvolari> java class files <cocooncrash> nuvolari: Two bits. <bmg505> if its part of a string its a '1' that became a '2' <linuxboy> Symmetria: get a cheaper car :/ <Symmetria> 20k for car bmg?! <Symmetria> wtf type of car are you driving that its costing 20k a month <Symmetria> my 335i only costs me 6.8 + 1600 a month for insurance <bmg505> when you live in a R2mil house with a wife you gonna need R10kx2 one R10k for you and one R10k for her <bmg505> the 20k/kid includes their car payments <bmg505> breeding and settling down is quite expensive <linuxboy> Symmetria: what sort of houses are you looking at that you can't afford? <linuxboy> bmg505: you need to earn +- R60k for a 2 mil house <Symmetria> heh 60k gross probably wont cover you for a 2mil house unless you living cheap on anything else :P <Symmetria> (actually I know it wont) <fredre> hi all <Morganvd> hi everyone <inetpro> good evening <superfly> evening inetpro #ubuntu-za 2011-02-05 <inetpro> good morning <Morganvd> morning <kbmonkey> hello <Kilos> hi all * inetpro thinking about web developer access to web server file systems <inetpro> since FTP should die, how do you handle access to web server resources for web developers? <tumbleweed> sftp (i.e. ssh) <tumbleweed> or webdav, possibly. More stuff supports it <inetpro> tumbleweed: samba? <tumbleweed> I wouldn't be too comfortable with running a samba on the public internet <inetpro> tumbleweed: no, not on the public side <tumbleweed> that's fine then <tumbleweed> of course you may be happier with a deployment system where they don't have direct access to the webroots, but rather have to commit to a repo <inetpro> tumbleweed: now that sounds like the right thing to do <inetpro> but web devs want immediate results <tumbleweed> give them a staging server too :) <tumbleweed> where all their commits are published immediately <inetpro> tumbleweed: how? <tumbleweed> cronjob that pulls from the repo? <inetpro> immediately? <tumbleweed> you can achieve almost-immediately with a commit hook <inetpro> ok, when you say commit, what would you use for that? <tumbleweed> a VCS <inetpro> hmm... <inetpro> let me ponder about this <inetpro> our web devs are still on Windows <tumbleweed> almost all the populer VCSs work perfectly on windows (even if windows is a horrible environment for development :P ) <inetpro> ok, and what VCS would you suggest? <tumbleweed> one they can get along with. These days that's probably svn or git <tumbleweed> I'd avoid svn and go for something distributed, but that can be more copmlex to use <tumbleweed> inetpro: but you need to spend some time getting familiar with VCSs before you can make other people use them :) <inetpro> tumbleweed: I have used cvs, svn and a bit of bzr <inetpro> just the users have never used it, at least not that I know of <tumbleweed> aah, that's not so bad then <inetpro> the reason I'm pondering about it is because I need to think about allowing more than a single developer on sites like drupal <inetpro> want to work out a practicable solution that will keep us going for some time <inetpro> traditionally we've had a lot of sites with simple static info, which is easy to manage <superfly> bzr <superfly> git is overcomplicated <inetpro> ok let's think for the moment about the production side first, assume that the dev environment is sorted and version controlled <inetpro> would you use rsync to sync it all? <inetpro> to sync to production* <inetpro> would you agree that production does not need a VCS <inetpro> ? <superfly> inetpro: we actually just do an update from svn <inetpro> superfly: please explain <superfly> inetpro: we type in "svn up" <inetpro> superfly: you mean directly to a production system? <superfly> yes <inetpro> hmm... <marcog> is it a critical production system? <superfly> we have a VCS and deployment strategy in place to prevent untested code from getting onto the live servers <marcog> i'm thinking more of an update failing halfway <superfly> marcog: we're deploying python apps... if the svn up falls over, the deployment won't continue <marcog> ah ok <tumbleweed> it doesn't sound like this is incredibly critical if the devs can currently write directly to the webroot <tumbleweed> so you also don't want to suddendly jump into an overly-bureaucratic system <tumbleweed> superfly: is bzr ok on windows? (are there decent gui bits). svn has the advantage of being built into many IDEs, which windows people seem to like <superfly> tumbleweed: Bzr Explorer works on Windows, and there's also TortoiseBzr (which I prefer if I'm on Windows) <tumbleweed> marcog: non-SVN/CVS VCSs probably wont have the problem of updates failing half-way <tumbleweed> i.e. update local repo first then update the checkout from that <marcog> tumbleweed: wasn't aware of that <marcog> although superfly mentioned they use svn <tumbleweed> well if you have disk failure / permissions issues / local modifications, you could still get a partial update failure, I guess <Kilos> corrie206, ping <inetpro> superfly: Marble 1.0.0 now available in Maemo extras http://nienhueser.de/blog/?p=295 * superfly looks to see if he can install it <inetpro> superfly: you still happy with your N900? <superfly> inetpro: I'm LOVING it <inetpro> cool <superfly> it's the BEST phone I've ever had * superfly installs Marble <inetpro> superfly: Thanks to some clever detective work by the guys at NokiaPort, who unearthed the specs from a MeeGo bug report, it looks possible that the N9 will have a dual-core 1.6 GHz Intel Moorestown processor, a 200 MHz graphics unit that drives a 480Ã854 pixel display, 1 GB RAM and an Infineon 3G modem that supports HSPA+ speeds (21 Mbps downlink). <inetpro> http://thenokian9blog.com/2011/02/04/is-this-nokias-iphone-killer/ * inetpro can't wait to see that <superfly> word <superfly> inetpro: the N900 is Nokia's iPhone killer :-P just that they don't regard it as such <inetpro> superfly: maybe next month I will decide what to get <superfly> night folks <inetpro> good night superfly <deegee_> superfly: g'dnight #ubuntu-za 2011-02-06 <inetpro> fp <inetpro> good morning <bmg505> good morning <bmg505> I will never again buy a nokia, and it has all to do with the shit service they give, not the phone <superfly> nokia doesn't have a real presence in SA, they mostly defer you to Vodacom <Kilos> afternoon all <deegee_> hi Kilos <Kilos> hiya deegee <nlsthzn> alo <nlsthzn> debian squeeze is old difficult (stable) ubuntu... can't imagine why I thought it would be a good idea to install it <Kilos> hehe. hiya nlsthzn <nlsthzn> Hey uncle... what is up? <Kilos> been struggling for 6 days or so. pc crashed <Kilos> tried a clean install of maverick and the world fell down <nlsthzn> :( that sucks... <Kilos> yeah. tell me about it <nlsthzn> wow... maverick has been very stable for me to few times I installed it... natty however... phew.... <Kilos> ithink it is in my bios that the prob appears on its own <Kilos> maybe a bug got in there somehow <nlsthzn> possible I guess... <Kilos> after 5 days i left battery out all night and then started from scratch and here we are <Kilos> tried clean installs many times. only 9.10 would go in and then when i tried maverick near the end of the updates it would crash again <Kilos> wasted lotsa data * Kilos cries <nlsthzn> :( <superfly> Kilos: is this on the hard drive we told you was bad? <Kilos> i tried 3 drives superfly . 6g 20g and 80g and all did the same <Kilos> i am now on the 20g <Kilos> i just need some help with the archives goodie please <deegee_> Kilos: i think that should be a hardware problem. have you tried installing maverick alternative? <deegee_> instead of the maverick desktop install cd... <Kilos> with 9.10 using same commands i can clean install and then reverse the archives command and not download anything <Kilos> maverick takes 110m every time <Kilos> i dont have the altcd deegee_ <Kilos> somewhere the latest linux headers and kernel are hiding and need to get them everytime from the net <Kilos> also oo and all the cups stuff <deegee_> Kilos: are you around pretoria perhaps? might burn you a copy <deegee_> during the week <Kilos> i am on the way to brits but can get it picked up from pretoria west <Kilos> this is a genuine cd <Kilos> pretty and all <Kilos> from canonical <Kilos> hehe <nlsthzn> Kilos: well... seeing as I could with assistance to how it should be done I could put most of the repo's on disc for you and let the post office do the rest <deegee_> Kilos: genuine or not, fact is; if it doesn't go well with your hardware it will give problems... <Kilos> even after successful install from months ago deegee_ ?? <deegee_> Kilos: you might need a hardware refresh.. <Kilos> oh i also tried karmic and some others as well and all gave crap <nlsthzn> Kilos: like the guy said when his horse fell over dead, "Strange, his never done that before" <Kilos> hee hee hee <Kilos> yes this is an old one that actually went flying out of a window before it was dumped and i got it <Kilos> hehe <Kilos> but now after the battery out over night this install went quick and clean <Kilos> maybe a bios upgrade will sort the prob <Kilos> but thats beyond me <deegee_> i got a pII running 8.04.4 server at my office, doesn't like to upgrade to anything beyond that... <nlsthzn> sounds more like motherboard or psu... but I am no hardware guru <Kilos> i got a cd called <Kilos> um <Kilos> er <deegee_> Kilos: are you sure it's not affected by the y2k bug? <Kilos> UBCD <Kilos> hehe <Kilos> UBCD tests everything ram , cpu drives etc and said all was ok <Kilos> y2k? wasnt that just a hoax <deegee_> is that the latest UBCD? <deegee_> heh... <Kilos> about 6 months old * deegee_ can't say much about UBCD <Kilos> very involved for me to work out what all it can do <Kilos> i use these 2 commands to save packages . how come it doesnt save the updated OO and linux headers etc as it does in 9.10 <Kilos> sudo cp /var/cache/apt/archives/* /media/storage/packs <Kilos> sudo cp /media/storage/packs/* /var/cache/apt/archives <Kilos> if i say the word chown superfly jumps on me <Kilos> is there something i must add to get hidden files as well * nlsthzn is going to try natty one last time... come on you silly alpha release piece of ... debian :p <Kilos> lol * nlsthzn is not sure why he does this to himself... <Kilos> because you can <Kilos> like the peeps that write virusses <nlsthzn> Kilos: ah... makes sense... <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on * Maaz starts grinding coffee <Kilos> Maaz, whats for supper <Maaz> Steak , egg and chips. And a free Coke <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos! <Kilos> Maaz, thanks alot <Maaz> no worries, Kilos <inetpro> good evening Kilos <Kilos> hiya inetpro howzit <inetpro> Kilos: hmm... ok I guess * inetpro had an unavoidable crash this morning when a car swerved in front of us. <inetpro> at least everyone is ok with just minor damage to cars <Kilos> wow. sorry man <Kilos> happy to hear everyone ok <inetpro> terrible feeling of uselessness for being at the wrong point at the wrong time though <Kilos> yeah <superfly> eish, inetpro, I'm glad you're OK <inetpro> superfly: thanks <superfly> I've been in a couple, and I hate the feeling <inetpro> I just wish there was software that could be used for simulating and documenting the event <inetpro> I'm the worst when it comes to drawing it on paper <Kilos> cell fone camera <inetpro> Kilos: I took two snaps afterwards... should have taking more though <inetpro> Kilos: when looking at the other car it's difficult to imagine that we were driving in the same direction when suddenly she decided to turn right at the green robot while I was coming from behind on her right hand side <Kilos> eish <inetpro> unfortunately my car just went skidding ahead when I applied the breaks... so much for a car without ABS breaks <inetpro> if I had ABS I'm quite convinced that I would have avoided it <Kilos> not maybe oil on the road as well <inetpro> very possible <dwidge> inetpro: actually there is software that the investigators use, saw it on a crime documentary, but they didn't name anything specific. they put in all the known data from the scene and it renders a 3d clip of the event from different angles <superfly> inetpro: you skidded because you slammed on breaks. if you'd gradually increased the pressure, but never hit 100% brakes, you would have slowed down in time <inetpro> superfly: maybe <inetpro> superfly: I tried <dwidge> in the documentary they showed the sim of a utility vehicle clipping a girl on the pavement, ragdoll physics and all <superfly> inetpro: I've taken an advanced driving course - that works. <superfly> of course if you'd been going over the speed limit and not maintaining your following distance, nothing would have helped :-P <Kilos> can someone tell me where to find this iso please. <Kilos> http://slexy.org/view/s23GCFkHcp <Kilos> can you only get to it via cli <Kilos> i dunno how to open home to find it unless i go cli <Kilos> and the temp file is gone because power tripped <Kilos> it also says If you are a gui person, simply click on the "Remastersys Backup" icon in the System Menu and you can select which option you want to run. <Kilos> i dont have that icon * Kilos scratches noggin <Kilos> sorry found it <Kilos> kinda blind i be <Kilos> must mak stuff bigger <Kilos> make <Kilos> see ya later #ubuntu-za 2011-02-07 <nlsthzn> Good morning SOUTH AFRICA... today is Monday, the 7th and this will be the last 7th of this month so make it count! <superfly> morning nlsthzn! <superfly> haha <nlsthzn> :) I am getting pretty good and installing and configuring certain distro's (which is sad cause I never get to use them)... just setup Kubuntu 10.10 wiith KDE 4.6 again... re-configuring all chat and mail apps (again) <Symmetria> *sigh* <Symmetria> piece of advice for all of you <Symmetria> never, ever, ever, ever, ever buy cisco high end routers if you can avoid it * Symmetria hates <Symmetria> I swear if I never have to order another piece of cisco gear again in my life I will be happy <Symmetria> big expensive pieces of crap that are full of software bugs :( * Symmetria wants to replace all of them with junipers * nlsthzn thought cisco was the bomb <superfly> Symmetria: I thought you said that cisco is the bomb <Symmetria> heh superfly I said cisco makes fast routers, way faster than a lot of the other cheap crap <Symmetria> but of late <Symmetria> their stuff has been giving a LOT of problems <Symmetria> We're buying more and more juniper gear now <Symmetria> the problem is, some of these issues are soooo hard to debug <superfly> btw, Symmetria, how's the server upgrade coming along? when are you expecting the kit to arrive? <Symmetria> will know that as soon as the hardware guy arrives <Symmetria> Im hoping this week or mid next week <Symmetria> Im going to get Patrick to go do full firmware upgrades on the current server today though to see if it puts an end to the prboelms we've been seeing (and the reason the server is offline right now) <Kilos> morning superfly and everyone else <Symmetria> heh gawd when you start doing really deep network debugging, there are some really... interesting commands... hidden away on routers <Symmetria> if you know how to turn them on that is <Symmetria> lol, on a cisco, type service internal and then start issuing certain show commands and it starts doing things like packet header capture off the asics for you to analyze <sakhi> mooning <superfly> aloha sakhi <bmg505> gmsa <bmg505> :) <superfly> morning bmg505! <bmg505> Symmetria, most of their undocumented feature is the source of most exploits or used to be <nlsthzn> you guys aware of severed fifth? <superfly> yes <nlsthzn> cool, downloaded the albums... now for some metal :) <Count_Janik> today a legend in rock is no more: http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/articleprog.aspx?id=58821 <Count_Janik> :( <nlsthzn> Count_Janik: bit before my time, but sad when ones idols and legends die <Count_Janik> yep <Symmetria> sorry about that marcog/sakhi <Symmetria> we have a bit of a major problem we're trying to resolve <tumbleweed> Symmetria: marcog asks what this is in reference to <inetpro> guten abend <drubin> inetpro: hilo <inetpro> Maaz: coffee on * Maaz washes some mugs <superfly> inetpro: guten abend <inetpro> heh drubin & superfly, how are yeah? <superfly> moeg <inetpro> superfly: why that? <superfly> inetpro: didn't get much sleep last night, spent the night on the couch to get a little bit of shuteye <drubin> baie moeg <inetpro> superfly: hmm... I know the feeling <drubin> superfly: shame... but I don't know the feeling <Maaz> Coffee's ready for inetpro! <inetpro> Maaz: baie dankie <Maaz> Plesier inetpro <inetpro> drubin: how come you are tired? <inetpro> should still be fully loaded with energy <drubin> inetpro: I just got back from cycling 30km :) <inetpro> drubin: very nice * drubin is trying <drubin> it doesn't actually seem that much when I type it out, but it is an improvement on when I started <marcog> drubin: ta for the banner/table cloth <marcog> i'm sure it drew in quite a bit of attention <drubin> marcog: We want it back in one piece and pics! <marcog> for pics ask tumbleweed <drubin> if there isn't pics we are going to be very sad pandas <drubin> s/isn't/aren't/ <marcog> one piece - hmm, that might be a bit late <marcog> you didn't add it in the agreement before handing it over * drubin hopes marcog is joking <marcog> :P <marcog> :P <marcog> ofc i am :) <drubin> it was quite a big thing who knows <marcog> half the people kept thinking we had 2 banners <drubin> marcog: Glad it drew attention <marcog> not realising how massive it was <marcog> before unrolling that is <marcog> we want to try prod ctpug to get a python equivalent <marcog> then borrow that for AC/Umonya <drubin> marcog: This was sponsored by canonical... might not have the same funds in ctpug <marcog> tumbleweed says they're looking for things to get sponsorship for <drubin> marcog: Can you please ask tumbleweed for pics <marcog> Maaz: tell tumbleweed drubin wants pics of the stand <Maaz> marcog: Sure, I'll tell tumbleweed on freenode * drubin honestly doesn't know his toes from his head at the moment <drubin> I mean he reads logs... I mean will you prod him :) <tumbleweed> Maaz: . <Maaz> tumbleweed: Huh? <Maaz> tumbleweed: By the way, marcog on freenode told me "tell tumbleweed drubin wants pics of the stand" 38 seconds ago <tumbleweed> yeah I'll post pics <tumbleweed> brb upgrading this box to squeeze <drubin> tumbleweed: \o/ <tumbleweed> that seems to have worked <Kilos> evening all. found an interesting tool for fixing mbr with grub and grub2 <Kilos> http://download2.berlios.de/supergrub/super_grub_disk_0.9799.iso <Kilos> cand even boot an OS that doesnt boot on its own <Kilos> can <Kilos> and i first went to an ubuntu site then got the info from there <inetpro> Kilos: does that mean your problems are just grub issues? <Kilos> yip inetpro looks like but my 80g still giving probs <Kilos> install xp and works but wont take maverick <Kilos> will try this tool on the 80g tomorrow <Kilos> its actually the mbr not grub <Kilos> that tool fixes mbr as well <Kilos> there are 2 iso's for grub and grub2 <Kilos> not sure what the site address is anymore must be that link minus the last bit hey? <Kilos> and i got 9.10 running on my overclocked P3 with 192m ram <Kilos> so if the P4 crashes i am not without contact again <Kilos> and i have a custom cd made with remastersys which i must still try. made here on p4 with an updated maverick <Kilos> took a while to work out how to get it to cd. but only 292m so dunno if it can all be there <Kilos> maybe its well compressed <Kilos> one thing about maverick i dont enjoy too much is having to install aptitude and gedit etc on their own <Kilos> but its much better than karmic with the close windows X on the right. kinda hard to remember where to find them when swopping from one to the other <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on * Maaz puts the kettle on <Kilos> Maaz, with cremora <Maaz> Ah! At last someone with taste <Kilos> Maaz, and milk <Maaz> Now you're talking <Kilos> Maaz, coffee for all <Maaz> Sure thing Kilos... Hey guy's!! Bring your mugs. I am tired of doing all the dishes on my own. <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos! <Kilos> Maaz, gracias <Maaz> Kilos: Â¡de nada! <Kilos> much too windy , the weeds are blowing in and out <Kilos> night all. sleep tight #ubuntu-za 2011-02-08 <sakhi> moonin <superfly> ahoy sakhi <Kilos> morning superfly and other fellas <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on * Maaz puts the kettle on <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos! <Kilos> Maaz, ty <Maaz> You're Welcome I'm sure <sakhi> Maaz: tea on <Maaz> sakhi: Sorry... <Kilos> lol hiya sakhi <sakhi> :) only coffee <Kilos> yip <Kilos> hi smorar <superfly> hi Kilos <inetpro> good morning <Kilos> lo inetpro <superfly> tumbleweed: ping <tumbleweed> pong <superfly> are you a debian developer? <superfly> I recall something of the sort <tumbleweed> as of pretty recently, yes <superfly> congrats :-) <tumbleweed> thanks :) <superfly> also, I might be asking you for some help in the near future, just to forewarn you ;-) <Symmetria> heh <Symmetria> so after a hell of a lot of analysis <Symmetria> we figured out what was killing the mirror.ac.za server <Symmetria> (though we are still getting a new server in) <linuxboy> and, what was it? <Symmetria> the box was dying the moment we had a ton of rsyncs running to sync from external points, divided the syncs so that the we trigger the syncs to kick off every hour for a different mirror, so the sync processes are now divided over the day to 24 different times and where we have more than 24 individual syncs or something has to sync more than once we just put 2 or 3 rsyncs kicking off at the same time <Symmetria> and the box has been stable since then <Symmetria> we were picking up a lot of wierd kernel panic errors specifically to do with rsync <Symmetria> very strange <linuxboy> why would you update all your mirrors at the same tiem? <froztbyte> why not? <linuxboy> load <linuxboy> bandwidth <linuxboy> CPU <linuxboy> IO <froztbyte> and if you have enough of all those? <Symmetria> linuxbox originally it was about scheduling the updates to all happen after hours <Symmetria> legacy configs <tumbleweed> Symmetria: why run our mirrors with a scheduling engine that runs 3 syncs at a time <Symmetria> we switched it to update any time because we have the bandwidth now to do it whenever <tumbleweed> (given our bandwidth, 3 at a time makes sense, but with yours, 1/2 is probably more sane) <tumbleweed> that way they also lock, so if for some reason (i.e. network issues) one day's syncs run over, they won't be stomped upon <Symmetria> yeah we're looking at that as well, though I think a lot of these issues will be solved by the new system thats been ordered as well <tumbleweed> Symmetria: btw which ftpd do you use? <Symmetria> the new mirror.ac.za client facing system will allow us to move the current box into a backend sync system and segregate the two <Symmetria> tumble, pure-ftpd <tumbleweed> vsftpd makes our kernel use an insane amount of memory when it's under heavy load <Symmetria> tumbleweed heh, did you see the specs of the new client facing server we have ordered? <tumbleweed> yeah that makes sense (split) if you have shared storage * tumbleweed can imagine, and doesn't want to :) <Symmetria> that new server is... mind blowing :) <tumbleweed> also, if you have some free rackspace and don't mind some bandwidth use, debian is looking for a security.debian.org in ZA (but it'd have to be a box admined by them) <Symmetria> heh its got 2 x 6 core 3.3ghz xeon cpus in it (so 12 cores total), 64gig of 1333mhz error correcting ram, high speed 600gig SAS disks in mirror config for the base operating system, 5 x PCI-E 16x slots for the Perc 5e external SAS system controllers to drive the disk arrays <tumbleweed> err not in ZA, but in africa in genereal... <Symmetria> we have the rack space, we'd require access to the box but they could admin it (we don't allow boxes on the backbone that we have zero access to for obvious reasons) <Symmetria> you can tell them to email me <Symmetria> heh right now I'm trying to free up space on diskspace3 by moving stuff to the new SAN, but *SNORE* the amount of data I'm moving is taking a long long time <tumbleweed> well, I can bounce you the request. I assume they'd be looking for hardware donations too (but those can come from elsewhere...) <Symmetria> moved debian onto the new disk array which freed up 500gig but 500gig will last days the way some of the other mirrors are growing <Symmetria> hardware is not a problem, I have several servers we could probably throw at it <Symmetria> dependant on how much disk space they are looking for * Symmetria watches as a 7.5 terabyte single mirror copies from one san to the other <Symmetria> heh, its interesting, the mirrors which provide us the most grief are never the open source stuff <Symmetria> its the scientific data mirrors <Symmetria> (in this case the human genome project mirror, which is *INSANELY* huge) <Symmetria> heh and when they do an update release, you're looking at 300+gig churn (on an almost daily basis) <Symmetria> gbdb/mm9/multiz30way/phastCons30wayPlacental.wib <Symmetria> 1914580468 100% 60.45MB/s 0:00:30 (xfer#5134, to-check=206126/231289) <tumbleweed> the open source stuff has had a while to learn how to be mirrored effectively <Symmetria> heh look at the size of those files <Symmetria> and they are all that size, well, some of them are bigger <Symmetria> file sizes ranging between 2 and 6 gigs a file <Symmetria> 7.9T /diskspace3/hg/ <Symmetria> heh <Symmetria> gawd damn <tumbleweed> drubin: weechat keeps building sucessfully. I'm tempted to leave the team :) <Symmetria> tumbleweed btw <Symmetria> if you ever want huge storage space <Symmetria> for cheap (cheap by the standards of highly reliable storage) <Symmetria> the dell MD1000 arrays are things of beauty <Symmetria> heh, 28 terabyte active array on eSAS for like, 80 grand <Symmetria> and they are *FAST* <tumbleweed> Symmetria: LEG doesn't have that kind of cash :/ (we make do with software raid, and partial mirroring) <Symmetria> *nod* we spend the kinda money as do on mirror because its becoming more and more a critical service for academic data sets <Symmetria> it used to be a lot about saving bandwidth on the opensource stuff, and we will obviously continue to do that and treat it with the same priority as everything on the mirror <Symmetria> but the academic data sets are becoming more and more critical, and getting bigger and bigger <tumbleweed> it's actually a pity that there aren't decent raid solutions in the 10-20k range <Symmetria> tumbleweed just one piece of advice <tumbleweed> open source is running into the same issues. Debian is having to deal with academic datasets appearing in packages <Symmetria> no matter what anyone tells you, stay the hell away from anything iSCSI based <Symmetria> we've thrown test after test at it, as have a lot of other people I know <Symmetria> and the performance BLOWS <tumbleweed> hah <Symmetria> even with hardware offload iSCSI controllers (and I had some pretty damn expensive iSCSI hardware offloads) <tumbleweed> ever played with ATAoE? it looks interesting but not that much hardware for it <Symmetria> heh, we were testing with hardware offload cards that cost 10 grand a piece an the performance still blew <Symmetria> tumbleweed, heh, havent played with it, I generally stick to the philosophy that ethernet was not meant as a disk carrying technology :P <Symmetria> and people should stop trying to be cheap :P cause it doesnt work <tumbleweed> sounds reasonable :) <Symmetria> you wanna throw shit like that over a network, use fiber channel <Symmetria> it was what it was designed for <Symmetria> LOL, interestingly enough, while working on our DWDM units the other day, I discovered you can actually turn up 10G fiber channel lambdas <Symmetria> directly on the DWDM units <Symmetria> only a matter of time before I start offering that one to the clients <drubin> Maaz: weather for cape town <Maaz> drubin: In Cape Town, South Africa at 4:00 PM SAST on February 08, 2011: 24Â°C; Humidity: 61%; Wind: South at 41Â km/h; Conditions: Partly Cloudy; Sunrise/set: 6:13 AM SAST/7:45 PM SAST; Moonrise/set: 10:58 AM SAST/10:09 PM SAST <Morganvd> Kilos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <Morganvd> HI <Symmetria> heh <Symmetria> wow, vendors can be real dodgy <Symmetria> we did some testing on a hardware device, produced a report, the vendor saw the report, phones me, and begs me not to show that report to any other south african isp <Kilos> hiya Morganvd sorry i am on p3 with no spound and trying to fix my 80g on p4 <Morganvd> lol <Symmetria> Im like, errr, sorry, we're an open book, you dont like me disclosing what we find, dont ask me to test <Morganvd> did you sign a non disclosure? <Symmetria> Morganvd hell no, if a vendor asks me to evaluate his product, we're transparent <Symmetria> anything I find in testing I will disclose <Symmetria> and if they dont like that, I wont test their hardware and I wont buy their hardware <Morganvd> well then you in your fullest of rights <Morganvd> Symmetria: if you have a few min later <Morganvd> i would like to ask your advice about something <Symmetria> ask away <Symmetria> I got a second now <Symmetria> just trying to plan a lab test and see what results I EXPECT to get bfore I start <linuxboy> Symmetria: URL to test results plz <Symmetria> heh linuxboy not publishign them on the web, but am prepared to discuss what we found the device couldnt do when asked by an ISP or anyone else <Symmetria> *shrug* very basically, we wanted to terminate pseudowires on svi's (switched virtual interfaces), the device doesnt seem to be able to do that, and unless we screwed up in our lab tests and they have some other way to do it, that makes the device unusable in the network <Owkkuri> superfly: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/android-apps-coming-to-non-android-phones-maybe-even-ubuntu/ <Symmetria> *HRM* #ubuntu-za 2011-02-09 <Kilos> morning superfly and everyone else <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on * Maaz flips the salt-timer <superfly> hi Kilos <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos! <Kilos> Maaz, dankie <Maaz> Groot plesier Kilos my vriend <bmg505> police coffee FTW * bmg505 takes out the bottle klippies opens it and throws away the cap <sakhi> moonin <superfly> yo sakhi <sakhi> howzit superfly ? <superfly> tired -_- and you, sakhi? <sakhi> I'm good after morning jog. <sakhi> we all good? * sakhi connection problems this side. <superfly> always fine on this side ;-) <sakhi> eish... was ldap issue but all is good. <nlsthzn> Hi all <Kilos> hi nlsthzn <nlsthzn> Hey Mr. Kilos, all well? <magespawn> howdy all <Kilos> hi magespawn <nlsthzn> hi magespawn * Kilos thinks he part of all <Kilos> yip ty nlsthzn and there <nlsthzn> Always good :) <Kilos> lol <Kilos> coupla weeks ago you kinda sick member <magespawn> later all <oomkoos> good afternoon everyone! <superfly> hi oomkoos! <oomkoos> hope you all doing ok. I have a query regarding softphone/SIP communication. I'm looking for a good client which we can use on ubuntu. I've tried Twinkle, Qutecom, Ekiga and linphone. However
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