#ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-03 <dholbach> good morning <Kaleo> Hi * dholbach hugs asac <asac> huh? * asac hugs dholbach <dholbach> hey asac - how are you doing? :) <asac> dholbach: great! my state is: in the middle of a wonderful day :) <dholbach> sounds very good :) <asac> i hope you doing at least as good today ;) <asac> when did you return? sunday? <dholbach> saturday <dholbach> yeah, I'm quite happy :) <adam_b> anyone know if the HildonDesktopManualProcedure should work? seems to fail to install hal[d] and then wont proceed any further <Mithrandir> hm, no, it will only partially work, you can work around this by doing printf '#!/bin/sh\nexit 101' > /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d ; chmod 755 /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d then retrying. <adam_b> Mithrandir: cool, next I'm trying to follow GladeWithPythonForUMEHildon gets as far as having a menu item but python cannot find the module hildon <Mithrandir> that's probably correct, since it's not yet in Ubuntu, only in the moblin.org repository. It's on the plate for this week #ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-04 <notserpe> where can I get an samsumg q1 ultra on the cheap for development (seed units anyone?) or a mid or umpc hardware? <dholbach> good morning <dholbach> hey Mithrandir <dholbach> hey seb128 <Mithrandir> hiya Daniel <seb128> hey dholbach <dholbach> how's it going guys? <Mithrandir> busy as always, but otherwise good. <seb128> same for me <seb128> dholbach: what about you? <dholbach> same here <dholbach> myriads of mails, stuff to do <Mithrandir> jetlag has mostly subsided by now, though <mdamt> What command to run an application so that the application has the same theme with the system? <mdamt> In scratchbox we usually use run-standalone.sh, what is the counterpart in UME? <asac> mdamt: if the app obeys gtk/gnome theming then you don't need to do anything special (afaict) <mdamt> If I run it directly from terminal, say mousepad, the theme is not the same. <mdamt> Fonts are smaller and the gtk widgets color is grey. <Peter_u2> mdamt, you have to do manually afaik. <Peter_u2> do following: export GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:/usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc.maemo_af_desktop <mdamt> Ah... cool. Thanks, that does it. <Peter_u2> welcome <mdamt> I wonder why UME's hildon-1 also defines MAEMO_CHANGES. <mdamt> I have a patch for upstream at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=823 <asac> how can i upgrade my image-creator created chroot? is it just apt-get dist-upgrade? <asac> or do i need to start from scratch every other day to get the latest moblin.org packages? <asac> nevermind ... found out by trial ;) <Mithrandir> asac: just use apt <asac> Mithrandir: yeah found out ;) ... thanks <asac> hmmm i dist-upgrade got stuck with: <asac> Unpacking replacement pidgin-data ... <asac> Error in select() Selecting previously deselected package libhesiod0. <asac> known? <Mithrandir> is /dev/pts mounted? <asac> inside chroot its not shown as mounted <asac> i started the terminal from image-creator <Mithrandir> try mounting it and trying again <asac> but its mounted <asac> devpts on /srv/chroots/mid1/targets/browser-test/fs/dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) <Mithrandir> ok <Mithrandir> no idea then; try finding out why it hangs <asac> i had to hit "return" to go on ... doing dist-upgrade now and see if its still reproducible <asac> "return" == "enter" <asac> Mithrandir: anything special we need to get fixed for NetworkManager in ume? <Mithrandir> asac: it seems to generally work. We need a new UI, but that's an intel deliverable. <asac> ok <Mithrandir> they might want your input on it, though <asac> what chipset are the devices we want to support? <asac> marvell is in 2008 i guess <asac> yes ... i am currently on a nm-fix-spree ... so better raise issues now ;) <Mithrandir> we'll be seeing various kinds, but I know some people are going with madwifi, some are going with wext-based marvell <asac> madwifi is something i still feel a bit scared about <Mithrandir> it seems to work fine on the q1 <asac> i think we still use madwifi driver in wpasupplicant ... but should probably go for wext there as well. <asac> hmm <asac> madwifi-ng? <Mithrandir> no idea. Whatever's the default <mdamt> About the theme, are you going to use the hildon's gtkrc as-is or do you have plan to modify it? <asac> Mithrandir: ok if you see any issues or instability, let me know (the earlier the better) <Mithrandir> asac: will do. <Mithrandir> mdamt: we'll be modifying it, I believe. You'll probably want to talk to kwwii_ about it. <mdamt> I have this thingy which relies on some parts of hildon's gtkrc... <Mithrandir> morning agoliveira <Mithrandir> agoliveira: any chance you could take a poke at getting galculator hildonised? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Good morning. That was weird, I was about to call you :) <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure, I can take a look. <mdamt> Do you have some list of apps which needs to be hildonised? <agoliveira> mdamt: Not all of them needed to be hildonized but we do have a list of applications here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UserApplications <mdamt> I see. <agoliveira> mdamt: and some discussions about this happens from time to time (there's one right now) on our mailing list. Feel free to poke around. <Mithrandir> agoliveira: thanks. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: No problem. Let me ask you something. I need to create a metapackage to install the applications already done. Any pointers you can give me? <Mithrandir> agoliveira: they should just be added to ubuntu-mobile. <mdamt> Are we going to have the same package name which installs for UME and normal Ubuntu? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ah.. I see. I'll check it out then. Thanks. <Mithrandir> yes <Mithrandir> mdamt: ^^ <mdamt> Cool. So the thing differs only the architecture? <Mithrandir> yes, lpia is "i386, but prefer hildon, and use a bit different optimisation flags for gcc" <mdamt> Ok. That's sweet. <agoliveira> mdamt: The packages on that arch (lpia) are using hildon interface and on the others, normal GTK or whatever they normally use but the sources are the same. <agoliveira> mdamt: Better, will be using :) We're still working on it. <mdamt> Btw is the GTK2_RC_FILES exported somewhere, so my app can just source it from there? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: For the meta-package, I just added the applications already built into mobile-lpia. Is that all? <Mithrandir> agoliveira: no, you need to adjust the seeds. Changing the package directly doesn't work <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Fine. Any pointers I can use? <Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement <Mithrandir> (but you don't have commit access, so it's better if I just change it for you) <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure. Thanks. <Mithrandir> what's the list of apps you want added? <agoliveira> For now: claws-mail <agoliveira> stardict <agoliveira> tasks <agoliveira> contacts-snapshot <agoliveira> cheese <agoliveira> ekiga <agoliveira> fbreader <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I have to go lunch now but I'll check you schedule as soon as I get back. <Mithrandir> agoliveira: I'll just make stardict a recommends for now, and I thought we decided on not having ekiga there? <Mithrandir> also, why not claws there? <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sorry, I just got my loist of apps and forgot to remove ekiga. Claws is the, on the first line I sent. The package is called claws-mail. <agoliveira> /sloist/list * agoliveira is a little dilexic today, I guess <Mithrandir> ah <Mithrandir> claws added <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Cool. Thanks. <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I got galculator half way done, just need to figure out why the menus are not showing up yet but it's working nicely and it's big enough to use with the fingers. <agoliveira> (at least on the Q1, of course :) ) <Mithrandir> that's good. <dholbach> mjg59: is bug 127273 good to go now? <mjg59> dholbach: SHould be ok <mjg59> I haven't had time to look it over properly, though <mjg59> Do feel free to upload it if it's not obviously insane <dholbach> I'd prefer to leave you time for looking at it to be honest. :-) <smagoun> Looks like the Poulsbo xorg driver requires EXA v2.2, but only EXA v2.1 is available in UME? As a result, EXA doesn't work on crown beach. Anyone seen this? <smagoun> I have xserver-xorg-video-psb 0.2.1-1ubuntu2 and xserver-xorg-core 2:936-429-9875.dfsg-12ubuntu2. <amitk> smagoun: bryce should be able to answer that for you <smagoun> amitk: thanks <amitk> bryce: smagoun: Looks like the Poulsbo xorg driver requires EXA v2.2, but only EXA v2.1 is available in UME? As a result, EXA doesn't work on crown beach. Anyone seen this? <amitk> (08:45:51 PM) smagoun: I have xserver-xorg-video-psb 0.2.1-1ubuntu2 and xserver-xorg-core 2:936-429-9875.dfsg-12ubuntu2. <bryce> I can doublecheck but I believe we had -psb working properly. Perhaps this newer xserver broke something? <bryce> did you have it working with EXA on a previous version of xserver? <bryce> there is a 12ubuntu3 I'm in the process of uploading, and 12ubuntu4 and 12ubuntu5 in the wings, which have various fixes for the exa functionality <smagoun> bryce: I thought we had it working with exa before, but i'm not 100% sure. EXA 2.2 is new in xserver 1.4 (1.3.99.x), I assume that's not part of the plan for gutsy though. <bryce> how are you determining that it requires exa v2.2? <bryce> is it working with XAA? <smagoun> xorg.log has the message "driver's EXA version requirements (2.2) are incompatible with EXA version (2.1)", and then a message to the effect that EXA isn't being used <smagoun> (plus, performance is atrocious - choppy animation, slow scrolling, etc) <smagoun> I tried XAA by adding "Option AccelMode XAA" to the PSB device in my xorg.conf, but a message in the x log said that line was ignored. <bryce> smagoun: yeah unfortunately we decided not to do 1.4. Also I'm not comfortable backporting exa 2.2 <bryce> ok, 12ubuntu3 has just uploaded <bryce> if the current exa performance issues are just recent (as I suspect they are - this sounds like an issue others reported), then the 12ubuntu4 upload may fix them, as it includes a big mesa 7.x update and stuff that addresses performance issues some of my testers have reported <bryce> so please give 12ubuntu3 a test for now. I am hoping to have 12ubuntu4 up in a couple days; let me know if the problem is still there after that <smagoun> bryce: thanks. The problem seems to be that EXA isn't being used at all though - so fixes won't make a difference. Or am I misinterpreting the Xorg log? <bryce> I'm not totally sure <bryce> if it's the case that -psb just will refuse to run with exa 2.1, and that these fixes don't improve it when running with xaa, then I'm not certain what we'd do in that case <smagoun> bryce: Thanks for the help. I'll file a bug then rebuild the driver against exa 2.1 to see what happens. <bryce> ok cool <lucasr> yo <CharliefJohnson> bryce: Please let me know if you have an issue with the version of EXA that is being support. <bryce> CharliefJohnson: can it be made to use EXA 2.1? <bryce> since we won't have EXA 2.2 for Gutsy, that would solve the issue <CharliefJohnson> bryce: I'll ask and get back to you. EXA is something I'm not too familiar with. <bryce> ok thanks <smagoun> bryce: I filed bug 137346 on the Poulsbo EXA mismatch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-psb/+bug/137346 #ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-05 <dholbach> good morning <mdamt> What's the input method situation? I read in the spec that it will use onBoard, but it seems that mb-keyboard is used? <Mithrandir> yes, we're using matchbox-keyboard at the moment. <mdamt> Any plan to change it? <Mithrandir> not really, unless something better comes along. <mdamt> Ok, hope this something can come out this week :-) <Mithrandir> oh, anything interesting happening which I should be aware of? <mdamt> Well something about input method. We're trying to get it out this week. Watch planet.maemo.org :-) <Mithrandir> sounds interesting. <Mithrandir> asac: for #129469 to be fixed, do I need to do anything more than change the build-depends and configure.ac? It doesn't seem like midbrowser-dev ships any shlibs? <asac> Mithrandir: carl wanted to look into it ... i haven't tried, but he claimed changing build-depends and configure.ac causes crashes <Mithrandir> asac: ok, anyway I think midbrowser-dev should ship a shlibs so packages built against it ends up having a dependency on it? <asac> Mithrandir: we don't have soname versioned libs <asac> if it still works i can add it ... <asac> and the libs are installed in pkglibdir as well <asac> Mithrandir: the main thing about all this is that upstream doesn't support using the shared libs directly ... <Mithrandir> I've read a little bit about it. I think upstream are approaching this wrongly, but it's not a fight I'm willing to take on. <asac> Mithrandir: the upstream way is to use a static glue which will find and load the proper gecko runtime engine for you <asac> Mithrandir: right ... however we have now xulrunner-1.9 the upstream way and firefox build on top ... and indeed appears to work well <Mithrandir> ok, but we don't want xulrunner 1.9 and firefox both in main, AIUI? <asac> no ... thats just for preview (gutsy+1) <asac> but it shows that it works well and that debian claims that its sooo bad are mostly wrong <Mithrandir> so what do you think is the approach we should take? <asac> Mithrandir: i think the crashes we see are because LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not set for the panel <asac> Mithrandir: and basic flash is just a .so right? <asac> Mithrandir: however carl said if you run the panel with LD_LIBRARY_PATH extended by midbrowser path .... then the whole panel crashed <asac> ... which i find a bit scary ... if you can do a build an verify that extending LD_LIBRARY_PATH really crashes it then i can take a look. <asac> but i always hoped that intel would go ahead and put some effords in it as well :) <Mithrandir> I won't have time for that today, but I could look at it later this week, sure. <Mithrandir> I'll put in on my list of stuff to debug <asac> you don't need to debug ... i just want a senior confirming that behaviour before i start looking into it :) <asac> if the panel really crashes though ... i would appreciate some hints why it might crash when just adding /usr/lib/midbrowser to LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?? <Mithrandir> I'd probably do it by adding an rpath for midbrowser to the .so instead, wouldn't that be better? <asac> Mithrandir: that probably won't work ... as the lib you load wants to load more libs that don't have the rpath set <asac> Mithrandir: the only option that would work is to link against all libs explicitly <asac> (only option with LD_LIBRARY_PATH and without using static glue) <asac> s/with/without/ <Mithrandir> mhm <Mithrandir> ugh, but ok. <Mithrandir> I'll just test with LD_L_P set <asac> feel free to test rpath as well ... its just that i tried it for something else (can't remember exactly what it was) ... and I ended up linking all libs explicitly <asac> Mithrandir: my image-creator installed chroot is broken atm ... 1. the application menu is so huge that it doesn't fit on screen and if i click on the application switcher arrow in panel it crashes ... is that known? <asac> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/screen1.png <Mithrandir> the second one is known, the first one I didn't know about.- <Mithrandir> s/-// <asac> its a fresh image (created about 14 hours ago ... and just dist-upgraded) <asac> Mithrandir: currently everything is run as root ... how will this be in the end? <Mithrandir> that's on my list of stuff to fix this week <asac> oh cool <Mithrandir> kwwii_: have you looked at the UI for dates and tasks and contacts? At least some people like the openmoko screenshots better than the maemo ones; do you know how much of this can be done with theming and what'll require code changes? <Mithrandir> kwwii_: or if you have any suggestions as to what the UI should look like. <Mithrandir> kwwii_: I'm not asking you to whip up something, just wondering if you'd already looked at it and had some thoughts. <kwwii> Mithrandir: I have never seen the openmoko stuff but I can take a look <Mithrandir> http://www.pimlico-project.org/dates.html has some screenshots. <kwwii> Mithrandir: the openmoko stuff looks much similar <kwwii> erm <kwwii> simpler <kwwii> but I think that most of that is coding, not theming from the looks <Mithrandir> ok; I guess the shiny buttons and such is just theming though * Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log <dholbach> asac: if you have the time, could you check out the bugs on http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring that have 'asac' next to them? most of them should be easy to review, I think <asac> dholbach: yes will upload ... for network-manager we probably don't want that fix <asac> but i am assigned so i will work this out <dholbach> asac: or just comment on the bug <dholbach> so the patch author knows what to fix or that it's not the right thing for gutsy <asac> done. * dholbach hugs asac * agoliveira finally got me menus working... phew... <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Just sent you an email regarding apps and what has been choosen. Can you reply today ? <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Just did <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Thanks! <MTecknology> this isn't really specific to mobile, but maybe somebody in here can help? I'm going to a university that doesn't broadcast their SSID. When I go anywhere else that is, I have a flawless time with wireless. They have two sets of SSID's, student1 and student2. What happens is that the network manager never seems to connect to the university wireless so I need to make separate profile for each. Does anybody know any solutions for <MTecknology> this? I really want to be able to just use the roaming mode for all of my wireless. <bfiller> Mithrandir: are you there? <Mithrandir> bfiller: I am now <bfiller> I wanted to ask you how to use dput if you only have a .deb and not a .changes <bfiller> Mithrandir: should we just copy the .deb to our repository? <Mithrandir> that's one way, sure. <bfiller> Mithrandir: ok. wanted to make sure there wasn't a "preferred" way :) <Mithrandir> bfiller: the preferred way is to build the .deb so you do have a .changes <bfiller> Mithrandir: the package in question here is Skype. They only have a .deb on there site and no source to build from <bfiller> Mithrandir: we want to include it in our repo and add it to our fset <Mithrandir> ah, then just including it ought to work. <mdamt> Where can I see the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS env used in UME package builder? <Mithrandir> mdamt: they're unset. <mdamt> Ok thanks. <mdamt> And maemo-launcher support is not enabled either? <bspencer_> no agolivera today <Mithrandir> mdamt: no. <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm off to bed. <HappyCamp> asac, you online? <asac> HappyCamp: what about? <HappyCamp> I just sent you an email regarding a bug we are seeing with regards to network-manager. <HappyCamp> I attached a patch file that I think fixes the issue. <asac> HappyCamp: the mail send to mobile list? <HappyCamp> Basically network-manager is doing dbus restarts in the postinstall script, even though we have setup a policy-rc.d file that says that services should not run. <HappyCamp> asac, yep. I also CCed you directly <HappyCamp> It's a fairly simple change to the postinst script. <asac> "Patch to fix network-manager bug" ?? there is no CC <HappyCamp> I CCed you and the ubuntu-mobile mailing list <HappyCamp> I'm guessing you received it? It was to ubuntu-mobile and to you at your @ubuntu.com email. <asac> yes i received the mail with subject above <asac> with lsbfix.patch <HappyCamp> That was from Todd. I sent my own patch which I think might be better. <HappyCamp> My patch is to network-manager debian/network-manager.postinst <asac> ok i have it <HappyCamp> Good :) I was worried our mail servers sucked. <HappyCamp> I'd be interested to hear feedback on the patch. <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: I take it you removed the restart of the network server? <ToddBrandt> oh, never mind, I see your patch <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt, I made it honor if we have a /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d file which says, don't start services. <HappyCamp> Which unfortunately network-manager currently will try to restart dbus services even if we don't want services to be changed. <ToddBrandt> ok, yea that's another angle at the bug, it's both there and in lsb-base <HappyCamp> asac the diff is to network-manager-(0.6.5-0ubuntu9 <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir said he was going to have one of their NM guys look at it but that will speed things up <HappyCamp> So lsb-base has a bug where it does post-install service stuff? Even if we don't want it to? <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt, I think asac is one of the Network Manager guy, well at least based on the changelog I am looking at. <asac> yes probably <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: no it doesn't properly handle the case where tput returns a bad value <asac> ... you don't want dbus to be restarted? how does that fix the bug Todd's patch tried to tackle? <ToddBrandt> There's probably a thrid bug here too, somewhere in mobin-image-creator that causes the terminal characteristics to be muddled during an fset install <HappyCamp> asac, No idea on Todd's bug. Todd's patch is probably a perfectly good patch. I am just trying to fix the issue where services are getting restarted even though in our case we don't want it to. <asac> ok i thought because you replied to his patch mail it tries to replace that patch <HappyCamp> I was guessing that if my patch worked then lsb-base would not be getting involved. But to be honest I don't know if that is the case. <asac> HappyCamp: what breaks for you because nm is restarting dbus? <HappyCamp> asac, Not that. I think it breaks because of the last two things, where it restarts some of the dbus specific components. If that makes sense. <HappyCamp> This: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager restart <HappyCamp> and this: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/26NetworkManagerDispatcher restart <ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: actually the bug is seen any time a service is stopped, started, or restarted from within package being installed/removed by moblin-image-creator <asac> HappyCamp: well ... we have to restart networkmanager in postinst <HappyCamp> I think mess us up. The dbus service itself is called via invoke-rc.d which honors the policy-rc.d file. <HappyCamp> asac not if I don't want it to restart in my chroot. <asac> when don't you want that? <HappyCamp> I would think, if I don't want it to restart in my chroot then it should not. <asac> i mean postinst is invoked when you receive a software update <HappyCamp> Moblin Image Creator is doing it inside a chroot environement. <asac> so it needs to restart <HappyCamp> Okay, maybe I am confused. I want to stop it when we install the package. Which I thought was when postinst gets called. <asac> yes, but that doesn't matter much ... the nm service needs to be restarted <HappyCamp> My patch should not affect anything except for the case when invoke-rc.d says don't install. <asac> HappyCamp: do you don't want to start it if its not running before? <HappyCamp> asac, Even in a chroot? <HappyCamp> I don't want anything things to be running in my chroot, service wise. <asac> HappyCamp: if you don't restart it in a chroot you cannot test it ... <HappyCamp> Well we have created /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d to return 101 <HappyCamp> Which means that services should not be run. <asac> but we are already running dbus in that chroot, right? <HappyCamp> We did this because a lot of applications do a postinstall script which dies when we are doing our install. <HappyCamp> I don't think dbus should get started, unless we are doing it when we do a terminal. <HappyCamp> But that would not be during the install. Currently our installs our broken. <HappyCamp> Now I don't know for sure if dbus is or is not getting started when we install it. <asac> hmm <asac> ok i am a bit unsure at the moment ... but its late so this doesn't really mean a thing :) <asac> i will take a second look tomorrow and if good apply it <HappyCamp> asac, We can wait until tomorrow. No problem. <HappyCamp> I just wanted network-manager to honor us using /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d even if maybe we shouldn't be using it in such a blanket method. <asac> how critical is that? <asac> i mean i think it should be ok to have this in network-manager ... but i would like to batch this with the next upload i have to do anyways <HappyCamp> Well we haven't been able to automatically build images since Thursday. We have a workaround (manually install network-manager) but we would appreciate it getting fixed. <asac> ok <asac> why did it break since thursday? <asac> what has changed? <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, changed the ubuntu-mobile package, I think. <HappyCamp> To bring in network-manager. <asac> ok ... good <asac> (or not so good :)) <HappyCamp> Before we weren't using network-manager. <HappyCamp> Thanks for your help. Have a good night. <asac> HappyCamp: have you tested if it breaks anything in normal gutsy install? <HappyCamp> asac, I tried it on my gutsy system: sh ./network-manager.postinst configure <asac> ok <HappyCamp> And that worked. But no, have not done a complete install :( <asac> no thats fine then <asac> HappyCamp: next time please submit a bug and maybe send a mailing list nag mail :) <HappyCamp> asac, Okay. Will do. I'm guessing bugs are on launchpad.net ?? <asac> butits fine now :) <asac> HappyCamp: yes <asac> bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s ... %s=sourcepackagename <HappyCamp> asac, thanks #ubuntu-mobile 2007-09-06 <mdamt> Can I use PPA to build packages for UME? <mdamt> Hmm I guess no, https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart says it's only for x86 and AMD64.... <dholbach> good morning <Uraeus> Mithrandir: around? <Mithrandir> Uraeus: I am <amitk> Mithrandir: ping <Mithrandir> hi amit <amitk> Mithrandir: Hi. I have to run to the shop to fix an emergency leak in the bathroom. I'll try to make it back before the meeting, but I have sent the spec status in case I don't <Mithrandir> ok, thanks. <Mithrandir> good luck with fixing the leak. :-) <amitk> Mithrandir: easier said than done. I have no idea how to fix it :-p <Mithrandir> worst case, call a plumber. <bfiller> Mithrandir: question about hildon-desktop from upstream <Mithrandir> shoot <bfiller> Mithrandir: how often do we plan to merge into ubuntu branch? Looks like they've made a bunch of fixes that we proabably want <Mithrandir> I don't have a schedule for it, I'm happy to take whatever fixes they think are suitable for us <bfiller> Mithrandir: ok, I can also take a look at some of the changes and see if it's stuff we need <bfiller> Mithrandir: one more thing re:hildon-desktop trunk that I see on Lauchpad. Is this imported daily into launchpad or is it linked directly to upstream's source control? <Mithrandir> the vcs-import branch is imported regularly. I'm not sure exactly how often, but I believe it's every 15 minutes or so <bfiller> thanks <smagoun> Mithrandir: I have patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/137346 , which affects xserver-xorg-video-psb. Is that something you can apply? I was hoping bryce would get to it, I haven't seen him around recently though. <Mithrandir> smagoun: there was a bit of discussion about it either on a list or private mail. <Mithrandir> I can't remember what the conclusion was, though <smagoun> Mithrandir: There was some discussion on IRC; as I recall the conclusion was that EXA 2.2 (a hw-accelerated X API) wouldn't be backported to gutsy, so the driver needed to be able to work with EXA 2.1. <agoliveira> Meeting in 4? <Mithrandir> oh, you have a patch, sorry, I didn't see that bit. Please send it to bryce and I'll prod him to get it integrated. <Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes <Mithrandir> bspencer_: morning, do you have your guys awake and present? <agoliveira> Thanks. I just had lunch so you won't hear me complaining this time :) <bfiller> agoliveira: pre-meeting question for you - a few weeks back you were working on completing the libosso integration (rather than stripping it out). Is this complete? <agoliveira> s/hear/see <agoliveira> bfiller: Yes, libosso is running at least on a compatibility level. I didn't test it's services tough but dbus wise should work I believe. <Mithrandir> asac,kwwii: you guys around? <bfiller> agoliveira: ok, thanks. I will ping you later w/some further questions <agoliveira> bfiller: no probme. <agoliveira> problem <asac> Mithrandir: yes <Mithrandir> good, since we're about to start the meeting, once the Intel guys show up. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: morning. I am my guys <Mithrandir> hi Charlie <agoliveira> "I am my guys" ? Weird... :) <ToddBrandt> Hello all <ToddBrandt> bspencer is all of us <Mithrandir> bspencer_: so you're all present and accounted for then? <bspencer_> indeed <Charliefjohnson> Morning folks (at least morning here in Oregon, USA) <Mithrandir> ok, let's start then <agoliveira> Cool. Let's try 1 hour today? :) <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: can you give us an update on the hardware decode bits? <Mithrandir> it's marked as not started in LP, I hope that's not correct? <Mithrandir> #startmeeting <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:55. The chair is Mithrandir. <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mobile-hw-decode <MootBot> New Topic: mobile-hw-decode <Mithrandir> I almost forgot to use the bot. :-) <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Don't have the updated info. I'll have to nag Waldo. Sorry. <Mithrandir> could you do that and get him to send the status to the list? <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:OK <Mithrandir> [ACTION] Charliefjohnson to talk with Waldo and get hw decode spec status posted to ubuntu-mobile@ <MootBot> ACTION received: Charliefjohnson to talk with Waldo and get hw decode spec status posted to ubuntu-mobile@ <Mithrandir> thanks <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mobile-browser <MootBot> New Topic: mobile-browser <cwong1> Asac has Uploaded a new midbrowser release to gusty. It had a problem but asac has just uploaded a fix. The browser should come up in the new target. <bspencer_> really? great news <asac> ack <bspencer_> what was the problem? <Mithrandir> cwong1: yay, great. <cwong1> We contacted addons owners to add support for midbrowser. The responses are good so far. If we supply them the patch to install.rdf, they will incorperate it in their package. <asac> bspencer_: packaging glitch <Mithrandir> cwong1: should you be the assignee for the mobile-browser spec, rather than Bob? <asac> bspencer_: uploaded from wrong local bzr branch :) <bspencer_> Mithrandir: probably, yes <cwong1> Mithrandir: yes <bspencer_> asac: I see <Charliefjohnson> So is the icon on the UI hooked up to launch it ? <cwong1> It should <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: from what I've seen on crown beach applications start very slowly. <Mithrandir> cwong1: what's your LP username? <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: including calculator <bfiller> cwong1: is there a .service file to prevent multiple instances from being launched? <cwong1> LP? <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: and the browser is the slowest right now. just fyi. <Charliefjohnson> bspencer_, : you have the libata patch? <HappyCamp> launchpad.net cwong1 <agoliveira> cwong1: Launchpad <cwong1> cwong1 <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: I only heard from QA. I'll check with you about that after . I don't know if they had the libata patch <cwong1> bfiller: I done have a .service file yet * HappyCamp thinks cwong1 is very imaginative :) <bfiller> cwong1: but you are planning to, correct? <Charliefjohnson> bspencer_, :If they have the lastest kernel, they should have it. You'll know it on the install if you don't. <cwong1> bfiller: y <cwong1> One last thing, we are currently working on a browser plugin to invoke our media player for video, pictures, music, ..etc. <cwong1> as the default ... <Mithrandir> ok <bspencer_> just a note here: the current plan is to play all media content in the external player, except for flash video. <Mithrandir> is that properly documented in the spec? (I can't remember) <bspencer_> if you click a radio link, for example, it opens the media player and starts to play. Then you have to toggle back to the browser. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: not sure. cwong1 is the owner ;) <cwong1> I will double check and if not I will update the doc <Mithrandir> ok, good <Mithrandir> moving on then. <Mithrandir> amitk: are you back again? <Mithrandir> seems not, we'll hopefully catch him later. <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mobile-graphics <MootBot> New Topic: mobile-graphics * agoliveira hopes Amit didn't drown on the toilet :-D <agoliveira> literally... <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: could you please give us an update here? I saw some discussion about EXA 2.2? <Charliefjohnson> OK. We have a current issue with the "psb" driver where it is claiming EXA 2.2 support where xserver 1.3 only has EXA 2.1 <Charliefjohnson> So you get no 2D acceleration. <Mithrandir> smagoun here said he had a patch to fix that? <Mithrandir> (just before the meeting) <Charliefjohnson> Who is smagoun? <smagoun> yes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/137346 <Charliefjohnson> So is this now resolved? <smagoun> CharliefJohnson: I work with bfiller, patm, lenkawell, etc <Mithrandir> it's not uploaded, but apparently we have a fix for it available. <smagoun> The patch needs to be applied to UME and possibly moblin <Charliefjohnson> I'll look at the bug report. <Mithrandir> smagoun: if you could attach the patch (if you haven't already) that'd be good. <Mithrandir> I'll notify bryce about it too <Charliefjohnson> Anyway - the redesign to ensure that the psb drm module can be open is complete and they are implementing. <smagoun> Mithrandir: did that already <Mithrandir> [ACTION] tfheen to talk with Bryce about EXA 2.1 patch for psb X driver <MootBot> ACTION received: tfheen to talk with Bryce about EXA 2.1 patch for psb X driver <Charliefjohnson> I thinik the first 3D capable drop will show up in Nov. <Mithrandir> ok <Charliefjohnson> There may be some intermediate drops worth taking, I have to verify that with the team however. <Mithrandir> it would be useful so we could test it when we start getting the clutter UI drops happening. <Mithrandir> moving on, we've had reports from Bob about the UI so next up is the USB client stuff <Charliefjohnson> "clutter" is the replacement for flash? <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: yes, based on OpenGL <Mithrandir> clutter is libclutter, OpenGL library developed by openedhand <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] usb client <MootBot> New Topic: usb client <Charliefjohnson> I got a status from them yesterday. I'll post it to the mailing list. <Mithrandir> ok, thanks. <Mithrandir> any interesting highlights? <Charliefjohnson> I didn't really read it yet. Sorry. I was in a meeting all day yesterday. <HappyCamp> Charliefjohnson, http://projects.o-hand.com/ for Clutter info and more. <Mithrandir> ok, no problem <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mobile utilities <MootBot> New Topic: mobile utilities <Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: do you have a status update for us? <ToddBrandt> yea <ToddBrandt> As for the status of specific applets: All existing applets are fully functional except Date & Time, but it should be fully debugged by next week. The volume and screen brightness applets are delayed because they don't yet conform to the hildon status bar applet format (waiting for the owner to send an update) <ToddBrandt> Then there's a general issue of gconf settings: most control panel applet functions don't take because the apps on the system aren't listening to the cp applets' gconf keys. I'm creating a spreadsheet with all the them so we can add/change things til we get it right, then I'll maintain it on moblin.org for reference. <ToddBrandt> The second is more interesting, I assume that gconf is the standard of choice, yes? <agoliveira> ToddBrandt: You had that on your clipboard all the time didn't you? :) <Charliefjohnson> ToddBrandt: Great Update! <ToddBrandt> heh, I like to get it right ;) <Mithrandir> why don't they take? <HappyCamp> agoliveira, ToddBrandt is our very own "Mavis Bacon" ;) <bfiller> ToddBrandt: when will the applets show up in the control panel so we can play with them? <ToddBrandt> well the apps have to be listening to the right keys, so some do and some don;t <bspencer_> ToddBrandt I think gconf is the default. I don't know if there is a dbus interface for it. I recall corba being there and Nokia had some dbus addition, but it wasn't upstream <ToddBrandt> bfiller: they're there now, you're not seeing them !? <ToddBrandt> they're in ubuntu-staging <bfiller> ToddBrandt: no * amitk is back <amitk> agoliveira: I survived ;) <agoliveira> amitk: Cool ;) <bfiller> ToddBrandt: I ran image creator yesterday and didn't see them <Mithrandir> bfiller: they're in a separate fset <bfiller> Mithrandir: ah, which one? <ToddBrandt> bfiller: yea you have to install the ubuntu-stagin fset <Mithrandir> ubuntu-staging <bspencer_> you have to add it manually, (not part of samsung-full...) <bfiller> ToddBrandt: thanks, sorry for the confusion <bspencer_> bfiller: until they get integrated into ubuntu-mobile. <ToddBrandt> no problem :) <Mithrandir> gconf in Ubuntu doesn't have a dbus interface, but it does have a CORBA interface. We should probably kill orbit and just use dbus <bspencer_> Mithrandir: I think that is the right thing to do <bspencer_> Nokia did this I believe <agoliveira> +1 <bspencer_> owner = ToddBrandt ? <Mithrandir> if he's willing or can be voluntold, sure. <ToddBrandt> bspoencer: yea, I'll take it <bspencer_> agoliveira doesn't have anything to do I hear ;) <Mithrandir> [ACTION] ToddBrandt to investigate use of DBUS for gconf <MootBot> ACTION received: ToddBrandt to investigate use of DBUS for gconf <bspencer_> ToddBrandt cool. <Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: are you working with HappyCamp on getting the code uploaded? <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: did you get that lsb-base patch uploade ? * agoliveira remembers to never trust bspencer_ <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: which code uploaded? <Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: asac fixed it in NM itself. <Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: the control panel applet code. <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: asac only fixed half the bug, it will still fail when the package is removed, we need the fix to lsb-base * bspencer_ sighs that the bug that broke images is now fixed <Mithrandir> he's your point main for getting stuff into Ubuntu now, and knows how the sponsorship process works. <Mithrandir> [ACTION] tfheen to investigate lsb-base bug which breaks when network-manager is removed <MootBot> ACTION received: tfheen to investigate lsb-base bug which breaks when network-manager is removed <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: ok, I'll bug him about that <bspencer_> Mithrandir: for network manager, or for everything ? <Mithrandir> bspencer_: in general, but if there's something special, I can upload too <HappyCamp> bspencer_, I think for everything at the moment. It is so I can become a member of MOTU <asac> Mithrandir: i am not sure if I should sponsor fixes to lsb-base <asac> Mithrandir: nm is fine though :) <HappyCamp> Of couse I just give it to Mithrandir or someone else. <Mithrandir> asac: I'll do it. <asac> good. <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: in the short term, you do. In the long term, you'll upload yourself. <HappyCamp> right. * bspencer_ fears seeing HappyCamp get any power <Mithrandir> let's move on? <ToddBrandt> k <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mobile-image-creation <MootBot> New Topic: mobile-image-creation <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: can you give us a status update? <Mithrandir> also, what's your launchpad user ID? You should be the assignee, not pkl. <HappyCamp> I have done more bug fixing mainly. <HappyCamp> I think my lp id is: john-l-villalovos <HappyCamp> I haven't had a whole lot of time to work on image-creator this week. We had some other issues come up this week and it has taken up most of my time :( <bspencer_> images have been broken since last thursday due to nm bug <bspencer_> fsets failed. But that should work today, I'm guessing <HappyCamp> I did put in the config file changes and they seem to be working. <bspencer_> I've used the ~/.image-creator/image-creator.cfg -- it works for me <HappyCamp> Expansion of the config file work and much much better error handling is next. <smagoun> HappyCamp: is someone working on the save/restore feature we discussed during the sprint? <HappyCamp> Not yet. I think there is a bug in bugzilla on it. <HappyCamp> But I did get assigned my very own "minion". So hopefully I can get him up to speed and we can get some of this stuff cranked out soon. <HappyCamp> smagoun, https://www.moblin.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=97 <HappyCamp> I don't really have much more to add on image-creator. Anyone have questions? <Mithrandir> sounds like things are moving along at a good pace <bspencer_> error handling will be nice <Mithrandir> indeed, all of the wanted features would be nice <bspencer_> esp mine :) <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mobile-power-thermal-optimizations <MootBot> New Topic: mobile-power-thermal-optimizations <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: that one's yours. <Charliefjohnson> Is there anything more to discuss here, the patches were integrated into the kernel. The blueprint was updated a couple of weeks ago so that the only thing adress was the thermal extension. <Mithrandir> it says "beta available", which usually means there is still work going into it. <Charliefjohnson> I'll take the action to find out if there is going to be any additional updates. <amitk> Charliefjohnson: What is the schedule to send the patches upstream? <Mithrandir> [ACTION] Charliefjohnson to investigate updates to mobile-power-thermal-optimizations <MootBot> ACTION received: Charliefjohnson to investigate updates to mobile-power-thermal-optimizations <Charliefjohnson> I'll have to check with the guys in India. I don't have that info alexanderlisa@example.com. <Mithrandir> if you could do so and report back, that'd be much appreciated. <Charliefjohnson> OK <Mithrandir> I'd like us to review action items from the last meeting, and get an update on how we ended up deciding to get updates into Ubuntu is actually working. <Mithrandir> anybody got any more agenda items? <Charliefjohnson> Was a UI update sent to the mailing list? <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: yes <amitk> are there any more kernel patches pending integration? <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: before 1400 as requested (IIRC) <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] Action items from last meeting <MootBot> New Topic: Action items from last meeting <amitk> Charliefjohnson: Any updates on schedule for 2D DRM drivers? <Mithrandir> bfiller,rusty and bspencer_ were to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way <Charliefjohnson> Can we get the Xterm icon hooked up to xterm ?? It is a pain in the but with no xterm available except by booting to single user mode. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: we had a discussion with bfiller, but the task isn't completed <Mithrandir> bspencer_: ok, so you want it again for the next week too? <Charliefjohnson> The graphics drivers and DRM are all part of the same package. <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Ctrl+Alt+F1? :) <bspencer_> Mithrandir: yes. we will report next week <Mithrandir> [ACTION] bfiller, rustyl, bspencer to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way <MootBot> ACTION received: bfiller, rustyl, bspencer to work out details on how to get event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash work well, in a meaningful way <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: has worked for me. Just hangs my crown beach. <Mithrandir> I have reviewed a few specs and sent them back, so that's an ongoing process, but since it's not complete, I earn an ACTION <Mithrandir> [ACTION] tfheen to review and approve specs (2) <MootBot> ACTION received: tfheen to review and approve specs (2) <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Oh... I only have the Q1 and works on it. <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: probably a driver bug. <Mithrandir> agoliveira: the psb driver is buggy and switching away from X doesn't work. <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: though, I agree getting the icon hooked up would be good. <Charliefjohnson> There is an updated 2D driver they we need to test. It might be worth taking. <Mithrandir> sure, can you coordinate that with Bryce? <patm> Charliefjohnnson, what is new in the updated 2D driver? <Charliefjohnson> Issue: We might have a problem with folks applying patches to the "psb" driver directly in MOBLIN. <Mithrandir> ok, moving on the next topic then? <Charliefjohnson> The team doing the driver doesn't not participate in MOBLIN. So patches that go there will cause extra merging since MOBLIN is not the source of the driver. <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: can that be solved by just letting the authorised set of people push to the driver repository? <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, it could, I guess. If they would want to. I'm not sure who "they" are. <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: It is a bit more complicated than that and become political. :^( <bspencer_> political: Does this have something to do with the Senator from Idaho? <Charliefjohnson> Internal Intel politics. <Mithrandir> well, we need to make sure that nobody commits to the moblin tree without it coming from the relevant group inside intel, right? <agoliveira> bspencer_: The one that "loves" cops? :-D <bspencer_> :) <Mithrandir> this either means not having the tree there or restricting access somehow. <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: is it contentious for the people writing the driver to be pushing their updates onto the git tree on moblin.org? <Charliefjohnson> Yes - Any patches for Graphics (2D or DRM) should be sent to me. I'll work with the team to incorporating the change. <Mithrandir> so the tree on moblin.org is pointless, then? <Mithrandir> or are you working with an internal git tree which this one is just a branch of? <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: For certain components - yes <Mithrandir> which of those questions was that a yes to? <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: This is probably an offline discussion. <Mithrandir> ok, we can cover it on the phone later then? <Mithrandir> then I'd like us to move on to the topic of updates from moblin into Ubuntu <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] flow of updates from moblin into Ubuntu <MootBot> New Topic: flow of updates from moblin into Ubuntu <Mithrandir> we've covered this a couple of times before, and now we've changed the procedure so HappyCamp should become a MOTU relativetly quickly, and I am less of a bottleneck. <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: have you had much experience with the process yet, or has that been hampered by the "other stuff" you mentioned above? <HappyCamp> I've been hampered with the "other stuff" this week. Hopefully I will be finished with everything today. And then can get back on the moblin stuff fulltime. <Mithrandir> ok, good. I'll raise the topic again next week and we can evaluate how the new process is working? <HappyCamp> sounds good. <Mithrandir> anybody got any other business? <agoliveira> I just want to warn that tomorrow is a holiday here so I won't be available. <Charliefjohnson> App List - Long discussion yesterday. <Mithrandir> ah, yes <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] user applications <MootBot> New Topic: user applications <agoliveira> Fine. Charliefjohnson, do you have any specific questions? <bspencer_> just FYI, Peter is Mauri's replacement. I think some of the discussion is him getting familiar with the application work going on <bspencer_> and the email yesterday was to clarify where best to put additional help and not duplicate adilson's work <agoliveira> bspencer_: Yes, I've traded a few emails about this yesterday. <Charliefjohnson> Peter is the engineering mgr. Mauri will continue to be the program mgr I thought. <bspencer_> agoliveira: right. just fyi for those listening <bspencer_> Charliefjohnson: yes, true. <agoliveira> bspencer_: Sure <bspencer_> agoliveira: I'd like to chat with you after this mtg more <bspencer_> or after lunch if you prefer <Charliefjohnson> The root of the app list email is that Intel mangement wanted a date for when all the apps have been identified. <Mithrandir> just to be clear, engineering manager is roughly what we call technical lead? <agoliveira> bspencer_: Sure. I already lunch so we can do just afetr the meeting. <Charliefjohnson> I think with the latest list. The only apps not identified are the Games. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: no, he won't be writing code <bspencer_> Mithrandir: more of a director <Mithrandir> ok <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Exaclty. I expect to do it next week. <bspencer_> everyone should write one <agoliveira> You can also keep an eye or subscribe to the wiki page. I try to keep it updated, <bspencer_> and we should have a prize for the best game <bspencer_> agoliveira: yes, thanks for keeping that up to date. I use that page here a lot to remind me what is up. <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: you suggested a date about two weeks into the future as a deadline for selection of all applications. That sounds fine to me, at least. <agoliveira> bspencer_: I have several published... for casinos, but it's a game anyway ;) <Charliefjohnson> I have to attend a staff meeting. So have to bail. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: I have one more topic: deadlines for October release and what it means to Ubuntu-mobile <bspencer_> Mithrandir: / everyone: sorry if we go over :-\ <Mithrandir> see you, Charlie. <Mithrandir> ok, so no conclusion on user applications as Charlie had to leave. <agoliveira> BTW, would be great if Peter could attend the meeting too. <Mithrandir> [TOPIC] deadlines for October release and implications for UME <MootBot> New Topic: deadlines for October release and implications for UME <bspencer_> agoliveira: I'll mention that, but I thikn it is rusty and I who will be here usually <bspencer_> agoliveira: and Mauri will attend too (she is on vacation) <agoliveira> bspencer_: At least ;) <bspencer_> Mithrandir: I know there are upcoming deadlines <bspencer_> and I wanted to clarify what kind of expectations or limitations there would be <bspencer_> one example: Clutter UI probably gets done end of Sept. Is it still possible to make it the default UI for Oct ? <Mithrandir> We've been discussing this a fair bit back and forth, both internally and at least with some others. <Mithrandir> and I'd like to make 7.10 also be an developer-targetted alpha <agoliveira> Mithrandir: This is very reasonable <bspencer_> Mithrandir: ok. Well maybe you could set some dates when changes will be frozen <Mithrandir> I need to sit and look at the calendar for exactly when freezes should be happening. 7.10 happens on october 18th <bspencer_> ok. Maybe you could share that next week? <Mithrandir> my main problem with making the clutter UI the default is it's going to be useless on menlow hardware until we have 3D support. <Mithrandir> I'll see what I can do, absolutely. <bspencer_> Mithrandir: true. I have a fallback fro that <bspencer_> s/fro/for <Mithrandir> input is much appreciated too, if anybody has any (strong or otherwise) opinions. <bspencer_> I think a minimum of 2wks should be used for bug fixing only <bspencer_> and we should clairfy
{'channel': 'ubuntu-mobile', 'month': 9}