@dagill2 posted a new topic, subject "Missing the Old Darden Forum". It read: Workout Regimen Only Every Other Week > I miss the old forum with more information about personal journeys, challenges, progression and results There is a training logs section on this site too, which has much of this stuff on it. It's the main reason I personally visit this site. I'm very much hoping some of the Darden forum guys will join @davemccright over there, I think it's a great way to share journeys and results. @borisv replied @dagill2: I presume you mean other pages on T-nation forum and not Dr. Darden's page/forum specifically. So @dagill2 replied Erm, maybe? I'm not quite sure what you mean, I'm afraid. There's a training logs subforum on T-nation with a whole host of training logs. I don't believe many of the people who came across with Darden have logs there, which I personally think is a shame. It would certainly help with “sharing the journey” and tends to be a much more positive and respectful place than others. Hopefully this clarifies what I meant. Then @Chris_Colucci said Workout Regimen Only Every Other Week > I miss the old forum with more information about personal journeys, challenges, progression and results. As the saying goes, be the change you want to see. I've been telling this to new members here for almost a year, but very, very few actually do it. Start a training log to talk about your journey. You mentioned having digestive issues, so a thread in the Nutrition forum will let you connect with other people who've also dealt with gut problems. Or put up a post in the Photo/Video Check-In. I made that thread a banner across the entire site for the first few days to specifically make sure that everyone who visited the forum saw it. Disappointing that hardly any new guys have chosen to participate. Pretty sure Dave was the only one so far. Bottom line is, there are _ample_ opportunities to have a kickass forum experience and be part of the community, but I get the impression that's not _really_ what some people are looking for. To which @borisv replied Thanks, and I understand what you mean. However, since I have a certain affinity to Nautilus/MedX/HIT in general (not necessarily from practical viewpoint, but from the perspective of finding the most intelligent approach to training), I stick to this sub-forum and my own guns. Probably, I should explore the universe of T-nation forums, although more data doesn't always mean better absorption of information. Plus social media and forums do not always reflect the reality. On a side note, as far as I remember, the former Dr. Darden site was a separate one invisibly (at least to me who is not an IT guy) supported by T-nation; now, it's just a sub-forum on a larger T-nation's forum. I can no longer find previous posts from older Dr. Darden's site, although the search function worked across old Dr. Darden's site pretty well. PM function is lost as well. Many interesting gentlemen are no longer here. Then @dagill2 said I have no knowledge of the old Darden forums so I couldn't comment. I enjoy the training logs section partly to see the journeys you describe above, but as an opportunity to talk with like-minded people about training. Something I don't have much opportunity to do in real life. Many of them train in a very different way to myself, but that's OK because some of the mindset stuff and real-life/training balance is the same. Then @average_al said Lots of interesting content was lost when the old site went away, which is unfortunate. I gather the design of the old database was sufficiently dated that it was getting difficult to maintain. Likewise, I suspect the cost to make the old content accessible as an archive is probably hard to justify for the limited number of people that would actually take advantage. So here we are. As for online training logs… I never had much interest in that. To each his own… After which, @entsminger added borisv: > I have a certain affinity to Nautilus/MedX/HIT in general == Scott== Through out the years I visited many forums searching for stuff I enjoyed reading and found the old Darden form contained the most people who had a similar philosophy and mindset which hovered around Arthur Jones and Ellington Dardens thinking and the good old days of bodybuilding. I know it sounds narrow minded but I've lost track of how many times I've accessed the training logs etc on here and gone from top to bottom only to find I'm just not interested in the bulk of the routines and other stuff posted by a large contingent of posters on here. I wish it was other wise. So @heavyhitter32 replied I much preferred the older layout. I really enjoyed following Turpin's training log for several years without having to jump around to another part of the site. All on Darden's forum which made sense since most everyone there was doing abbreviated training even if it wasn't pure HIT, most were on the same page especially as years went on. I also met some online friends through the old forum - one of which I keep in email contact today. That cannot happen any longer. I also didn't appreciate not getting a heads up the older forum would just vanish one day. No warning, no nothing. I go to the site one day and the URL is dead. Very crappy way to treat forum members many of whom were loyal from the very beginning of that forum, but a sign of times unfortunately. So @entsminger replied heavyhitter32: > I much preferred the older layout. I really enjoyed following Turpin's training log for several years without having to jump around to another part of the site. All on Darden's forum which made sense since most everyone there was doing abbreviated training even if it wasn't pure HIT, most were on the same page especially as years went on == Scott== I couldn't agree more! I don't know why the Darden part of the forum here couldn't work in a similar way as the old one but in conjunction with the new one? To which @average_al replied entsminger: > I don't know why the Darden part of the forum here couldn't work in a similar way as the old one but in conjunction with the new one? I imagine it would be costly to recode things to work the way you want, and it would make the site more costly to maintain, without generating any additional revenue for the site. I also don't see how such a change benefits Dr. Darden? He is more active and more accessible here than on the old site, and the admins have gotten rid of at least one long time troll who really disrupted the old board. @heavyhitter32 replied This forum is surely far more mobile friendly too (although I have not tried it yet). So @atp_4_me replied average_al: > and the admins have gotten rid of at least one long time troll who really disrupted the old board. Maybe those who visited Dr. Darden's old forum realize how foolish insinuating that I was Grant actually was! Herd mentality at work! To which @wanna_be replied Y'all do realize that if you and other followers of darden/Jones started a training journal… then there would be countless training journals in which you enjoyed reading and could follow along, ask questions, and maybe take some things for your own use. So @entsminger replied I've never found looking at someone else's training journal was ever much help for me. We are all so different that what one person does could be completely the opposite from what I should do. It's like looking in the muscle magazines at Sergios routine and trying to take something useful from that. Scott @Dresden replied It's worth keeping in mind that most of the people on here (or anywhere else) aren't going to have the potential of Sergio so the information may be more useful than that in the muscle magazines. It couldn't be any less useful after all. @entsminger replied I'm sorry but I've looked at the training logs on here many times and I've found I have little interest in seeing how many sets of squats or deadlifts or whatever guys on this forum use in their daily routines any more than what Sergio might have used. Even more than that I find the way posts are done here I find it very hard to make sense of what is being yoderkevin@example.org. To much BS talk. Scott To which @Dresden replied At least you've given it a try. After which, @average_al added For the record, I didn't think that was likely. Grant D. was in a class by himself. So @average_al replied entsminger: > I'm sorry but I've looked at the training logs on here many times and I've found I have little interest in seeing how many sets of squats or deadlifts or whatever guys on this forum use in their daily routines any more than what Sergio might have used. Even more than that I find the way posts are done here I find it very hard to make sense of what is being yoderkevin@example.org. To much BS talk. I agree that it can be very difficult to grok someone's workout strategy by looking at daily training logs. Sometimes that is because the program is complex. Sometimes it is because people have no clear plan, or they change it so often that they might as well not have a plan (and nothing fundamentally wrong with that either). Also, some of those logs are filled with a lot of banter. If you love that sort of thing, that's OK. But it generally doesn't do it for me. Basically, those are only of interest to the parties who have struck up an online friendship. (And I guess I've had a few of those over the years, mostly a couple of frequent posters from the old Dr. Darden forum, so I get that aspect of a forum.) Likewise, I don't need “accountability”, whatever that means in a forum context. (I have yet to have anyone show up at my door and ask if I'm ok because I stopped posting…). Nor do I need a lot of affirmations or attaboy's. I am at a point where I know what works for me, and what doesn't. I know how much volume and intensity I can manage before this old body runs out of steam. I know how much adaptation and muscle building is realistic for my genetics and age. I'm not really on a journey any more, I'm fighting a long retreat against the grim reaper. Occasionally, it is interesting to see what other people are doing. But it really doesn't affect what I'm doing for myself. I do have some interest in science and physiology as it relates to fitness and health. But even on that front, I've reached a point where I feel that I'm talked out on most topics… So @entsminger replied I pretty much agree with everything you said especially the banter part. On so many logs it's like I have to be part of some kind of “in club” to know what is being talked about. Scott Then @davemccright said I don't think not knowing exactly what's being said is that big of a deal. I just show up every now and then and read a few logs that interest me, see what they've been up to. Most logs I read had thousands of entries before I ever even started. I especially like seeing people get frustrated in Anna's training log, that is always entertaining lol This forum generates a lot of arguments and debates which are always entertaining to me. Especially if it's Darden forum guy vs T-Nation forum guy. It's cool to either grab popcorn and watch or chime in with a personal perspective. After which, @hit_sirloin added Personally im glad things ended up the way they did, the old forum had been dead for quite a while. Probably because people were communicating more using the PM function than using the actual forum itself. Like wise, HIT forums weren't always the most welcoming of places, they could well be clicky, talk about “in clubs”. Personally i like reading the logs here, i get more from reading them than i ever did from listening to people go on and on about the Colorado experiment for the 100th time, whether or not to train to failure, the next rehashed superslow variation or how they deconditioned training for 10 minutes once in a blue moon. To which @average_al replied Having been pretty negative on training logs, I have to give a hat tip to one log I just looked at. Only 24 posts spread out over 4 years. But it shows the recovery of an individual after getting treatment for cancer. Now this is inspirational: Getting Back After Cancer Treatment Over 35 Lifter > I am 59. For the last 5 to 6 years I have been lifting regularly. At 165 lbs I was proud of my six pack and the fact that on my 59th birthday I deadlifted 420 lbs. In April I was diagnosed with throat cancer. It's been almost a month since my last treatment and I am almost ready to go back to the gym. However, I am starting my recovery at 128 lbs. Any suggestions on how I should approach this? And, for those that might have gone through this were you able to get back to where you were? After which, @atp_4_me added average_al: > For the record, I didn't think that was likely. Grant D. was in a class by himself. For the record, I never read any post from Grant that was worthy of him being banned. The moderator explained why he was banned, and that explanation will have to suffice. Still, it feels like he got run off. I mostly ignored his posts. Occasionally he was factual about exercise, but mostly highly opinionated. Still, opinions are not a reason to be banned. Then @entsminger said I don't remember Grant being banned? I thought his posts just got moved to some other section? Scott Then @simon_hecubus said atp_4_me: > Still, opinions are not a reason to be banned. Marathon/Volume posting is IMO — as long as he received sufficient warning! Then @average_al said Look up the user name planet_healh, which is what he used here. It says: _**This user is suspended.**_ _**Reason: Long-time trolling; inability to have productive, rational discussions.**_ Then @entsminger said That's interesting. I guess Darden was much more tolerant on his old forum ? I don't think he ever banned anyone even though at least one person said he was banned. Scott Then @pettersson said Safe, Progressive and Focused Inroad Bigger Stronger Leaner > The progression of Weight-Induced Resistance Exercise has been developed and improved over decades. The primary experts, which for the most support their own findings, are Dr. Darden, John Little, Fred Hahn and Pete Sisco. My views and notes are strictly one of a student and applier of these protocols. Some crucial experiences and guidelines stated precisely . . . in no particular order. 10182001: Inroad a muscle and avoid overloading our system 10182002: Assure adequate inroad through musc… Time heals any wound. Take a trip back memory lane. Brings a new understanding why things went downhill for planet_healh. To which @entsminger replied Yes that stuff went on for quite a while. I guess the moderator on the old forum, if there was one, must have figured crazy posts are better than none?? Scott To which @atp_4_me replied average_al: > Reason: Long-time trolling; inability to have productive, rational discussions. This could be considered a subjective decision. He should get a clear 2nd chance after a period of adequate suspension. I think he truly believed in isometrics and consolidated workouts. Would Mike Mentzer be banned here? @atp_4_me replied Safe, Progressive and Focused Inroad > The progression of Weight-Induced Resistance Exercise has been developed and improved over decades. The primary experts, which for the most support their own findings, are Dr. Darden, John Little, Fred Hahn and Pete Sisco. My views and notes are strictly one of a student and applier of these protocols. Some crucial experiences and guidelines stated precisely . . . in no particular order. 10182001: Inroad a muscle and avoid overloading our system 10182002: Assure adequate inroad through musc… Banned for this comment ? Does anyone want to be part of any forum discussion where any dissenting views are not tolerated? To which @average_al replied Of course it is subjective. Moderation to keep a forum functional requires judgement. Without that, they tend to become useless. Remember that this isn't the public square. These forums are not public utilities. The owners have every right to block people who are disruptive and who detract from the climate they are trying to create. I'm pretty sure that Petterson was just pointing to the start of a thread that later went off the rails. Skillful trolls always start off with reasonable commentary, then go down the rat hole later on. The person behind those posts had a long history of being disruptive (years worth on the other forum). Like a suicide bomber, he blew himself up… no need for resurrection. To which @atp_4_me replied average_al: > Like a suicide bomber, he blew himself up… no need for resurrection. This seems judgmental on your behalf, and suits you poorly. I'm glad you are not a judge! So @T3hPwnisher replied Dear Sir, are you judging someone for being judgemental? So @atp_4_me replied Do you understand the word seems? Then @T3hPwnisher said Yes I understand the word, but don't call me seems. So @entsminger replied The biggest problem with his posts in my opinion were not what he believed in but his constant brags of lifting entire weight stacks and so forth with out one shred of evidence that he ever touched a weight but gee , I guess that never happens anywhere else on here, ha ha! Maybe you remember Nautilus 1975? According to him he had shoulders so big he had trouble getting through doors. Funny how those guys never post pictures! Scott After which, @entsminger added Good post Average Al Scott To which @davemccright replied I LOVE reading his posts. True magic. I wish I could read what he said on the old forum. So @pettersson replied Yes! While revisiting his own thread in the “bigger, stronger, leaner” forum, I realized the same. He just went on and on about his ideas about statics and Max Pyramid etc. It's like he never replied to any questions - more like a politician, he continued to talk about his own agenda. He even replied to his own posts! The funniest post must have been from @flappinit when he talked about his interpretation of inroading and outroading, and how others actually questioned whether he was serious or not? LOL Maybe we should start a new thread “in loving memory of planet_healh” where people from the old forum can add their stories about him? So @Chris_Colucci replied This whine-a-thon has been moved to a thread of its own, in a more appropriate forum category. While I can definitely understand initially being upset by the change from Darden's old forum, guys, it's been a full fucking year. Get over it. Either wrap your head around the fact that it's changed or just move on (either from the subject or the site, whichever you want). To still be sitting around complaining about the changed site is a literal waste of time. It's hysterically ironic that all the guys talking about how the training conversations used to be better on the older site have wasted more time and energy in the last five days complaining instead of actually talking about any training whatsoever. As I've said time and time again, there are _tons_ of opportunities to talk about whatever you feel like. You guys are simply not interested in actually participating. That's a fact. Complain that forum posters were just anonymous keyboard warriors who didn't workout? We've had a Feb '21 photo check-in, and the T-ransformation challenge, and an Aug '21 photo check-in… you guys participated in none of them. Reading a training log and can't understand what the person's doing? Ask them. Want more threads talking about HIT or Nautilus or Jones? **Then start one!** How does that need to be explained? Seriously, at this point, you're the teenager standing in front of a fully stocked fridge complaining that there's nothing to eat. @Chris_Colucci replied We don't typically discuss Mod/Admin actions on the forum, but just to snip this real quick… atp_4_me: > Banned for this comment ? No, nobody is banned for one single comment. You really should read my post in that thread (it's the second-from-last, so scroll right to the bottom). > Does anyone want to be part of any forum discussion where any dissenting views are not tolerated? “Dissenting views” are absolutely tolerated here. Trolling is not. Several paragraphs of borderline-coherent rambling trying to explain why gravity doesn't affect the weight of a stack, for example, would fall under that category. After which, @entsminger added [quote=“Chris_Colucci, post:43, topic:275245”] To still be sitting around complaining about the changed site is a literal waste of time. It's hysterically ironic that all the guys talking about how the training conversations used to be better on the older site have wasted more time and energy in the last five days complaining instead of actually talking about any training whatsoever. As I've said time and time again, there are _tons_ of opportunities to talk about whatever you feel like. You guys are simply not interested in actually participating. That's a fact. Complain that forum posters were just anonymous keyboard warriors who didn't workout? We've had a Feb '21 photo check-in, and the T-ransformation challenge, and an Aug '21 photo check-in… you guys participated in none of them. Reading a training log and can't understand what the person's doing? Ask them. Want more threads talking about HIT or Nautilus or Jones? **Then start one!** How == Scott== There's a time to talk about training and there's a time for other topics. At the moment this forum was the topic. It sounds like you just don't like any criticism of your forum! Instead of listening to our gripes and possibly modifying the forum you just write us off as trouble makers. When a lot of people complain there's usually a reason You say none of us participate? I participate on threads all the time ! My picture is my avatar. Unlike yours mine actually shows what little muscle I have. I have started threads about Nautilus and they get placed where Nautilus fans don't easily find them. This forum is one of the better ones out there but It could be better! After which, @Tougher added I was on the old Darden forum back in the mid 00's. I bought the books and for a period of time was sold. Some of the things that turned me away from the forum and HIT in general was the attitude of some of the members, the constant use of the same two or three guys as examples of the superiority of HIT, and the lack of posting of actual results. It was just talk of ideas with nothing to back it up. Talking about superslow, jreps, going to failure or not, etc doesn't mean much if you can't show the result. I see that 15 years later, not much has changed. It's just talking and complaining about anyone that doesn't follow HIT. Here, people are following high volume, low volume, strongman, powerlifting, Olympic lifting, CrossFit, etc and all are welcome. New ideas and old ideas are tossed around and inspiration is taken from a wide range of people, spanning decades. Plus there are dozens, if not more, pictures of people showing the results of their work. To which @entsminger replied Tougher: > Some of the things that turned me away from the forum and HIT in general was the attitude of some of the members, the constant use of the same two or three guys as examples of the superiority of HIT, and the lack of posting of actual results. It was just talk of ideas with nothing to back it up. Talking about superslow, jreps, going to failure or not, etc doesn't mean much if you can't show the result. ==Scott== I agree with a lot of this! I was constantly complaining about the old forum and threatened to leave it several times so in no way was the old forum perfect! I follow HIT but I was constantly preaching I got my best results with methods other than HIT. It's just one of many ways to build muscle and not nessesarily the best. After which, @Chris_Colucci added entsminger: > It sounds like you just don't like any criticism of your forum! I've never had any problem with constructive criticism of the forum, but what I'm seeing here is 12 months of whining that the old forum was shut down, whining how much they liked the old forum, and whining how the new forum is different. > Instead of listening to our gripes and possibly modifying the forum The forum is not going to be modified to accommodate five or six guys. > When a lot of people complain there's usually a reason “A lot of people” aren't complaining. A literal handful of people have been unable to adapt to change. > My picture is my avatar. Unlike yours mine actually shows what little muscle I have I do appreciate your decision to add an avatar, regardless of when that pic was taken, and wish more members (new and old) would do similar. Avatars can be changed on a whim, but still, it's a really good start. My avatar is a screenshot from a lifting video I did. I posted a unflexed/unposed physique pic in the recent Photo check-in thread, just like I've done twice a year for the last nine years, because I felt it important to participate in that side of the community here. But don't worry, I'll still use my unmuscled physique to explain the parts of training you find confusing while offering advice you don't put into action. > I have started threads about Nautilus and they get placed where Nautilus fans don't easily find them. Did you mean the Nautilus thread you started that got 240+ replies or the Nautilus thread you started that got 260+ replies? People seemed to have no problem finding either one. > This forum is one of the better ones out there but It could be better! Thanks. I'm open to hearing how it could be better. After which, @T3hPwnisher added entsminger: > threatened to leave Scott, flat out you have a VERY high opinion of yourself if you view your leaving of a free online community as a threat rather than a mere statement or offer. So @davemccright replied image640×640 137 KB Then @believer423 said What happened to @ricky153015 ? To which @entsminger replied I've stopped posting on your forum, because I'm not comfortable with moderators moving my posts to other parts of the site…. The moderators apparently think that I should be more open minded about other high volume approaches espoused on the site, but my interest in that site, with very few exceptions begins and ends with your forum. == Scott== A while back I asked the same question to Ricky and the above is what he wrote. I know exactly what he means and I agree with him on other parts of this forum. If Darden wasn't on here you wouldn't ever catch me on here! After which, @melisnmatt added Ricky has a YouTube channel where he posts workouts. Some good stuff To which @melisnmatt replied This forum is moving more and more away from darden To which @average_al replied I don't know if you ever visited the old forum. But it seemed like a lot of the active participants were fans of Darden, but had moved away from strictly following his training programs. There were a number of people doing lower volume multiple set routines, which they said were still HIT inspired or influenced, because they were still doing short workouts, chasing failure, and not training that frequently. So the mix here does not seem all that different to me. To which @Chris_Colucci replied Oh, this topic again. Yay. I'll make one reply before strongly suggesting everyone take their kvetching to an already running thread where they can go all-out talking about the change: Missing the Old Darden Forum melisnmatt: > forum is moving more and more away from darden Nope, it's literally the opposite. The forum has very much opened up to incorporate Dr. Darden's info and to welcome the members interested in it. The problem, as I've said literally countless times before, is that many of the new-to-T Nation members are the ones stamping their feet and digging in their heels saying “We don't wanna talk with new people”, and failing to adapt to the fact that the _Ellington Darden Coaching Forum_ is not a _general purpose training forum_ like you had on the old site. Threads that aren't about Dr. Darden's work can, have, and will be moved to more appropriate sections of the site. That's really not such a big deal, especially considering the fact that, when I started a thread to discuss and define “HIT”, dozens of members (both T Nation regulars and old-Darden-site transfers) basically agreed on the key points. There's **plenty** of common ground and no legitimate reason to avoid the rest of the site if you actually want to talk training (or, heaven forbid, learn something). @melisnmatt replied I get it, you have to tow the company line. Instead of focusing on threads you say should be moved to the “missing darden” thread, police these posts for non Darden examples. Let's see, people debating Fortitude, dc and wendler have taken over numerous of these posts. Those are the ones that come right to mind. Given time I could point out probably a dozen threads that went off the rails. I shouldn't have to read about that here .Why don't you jump in and chastise them? To which @entsminger replied He just gets into a defense attorney tizzy when someone complains about his wonderful forum especially when they compare it to the old forum , wa wa , my forum is better!! Don't say bad things about my forum!! The best kind of forum is one with very little moderation , where people can say what they want within reason , when and where they want with out the fear of being shuttled off to some never never land spot that nobody looks at or the fear of being criticized buy the moderator. The top thread on the Darden section is where people look to see stuff related to Darden training, not some other thread buried in another section. To which @kd13 replied melisnmatt: > Let's see, people debating Fortitude, dc and wendler have taken over numerous of these posts People discussing other training options in a thread titled “training other than whole body hitt” where the original poster explicitly mentions non darden options in his first post. Oh the horror… So @kd13 replied entsminger: > He just gets into a defense attorney tizzy when someone complains about his wonderful forum especially when they compare it to the old forum , wa wa , my forum is better! Why dont you threaten to leave that may change things… After which, @ChickenLittle added Eeeazy now…That was uncalled for. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out To which @T3hPwnisher replied melisnmatt: > I get it, you have to tow the company line This is not at all how the phrase “toe the line” works… To which @entsminger replied Ha ha! I couldn't leave, Pwunisher would be devastated, ha ha ! So @Chris_Colucci replied melisnmatt: > you have to tow the company line. It has nothing to do with “the company line”. I'm simply explaining how this forum works to people who don't understand how it works. > Let's see, people debating Fortitude, dc and wendler have taken over numerous of these posts This has _literally_ never happened, unless you have an extremely generous definition of “taken over”. > Why don't you jump in and chastise them? Mods and Admins take action whenever forum quality is threatened and/or when forum policies are violated. @Chris_Colucci replied entsminger: > He just gets into a defense attorney tizzy If you mean presenting facts in a straight-forward and convincing manner while refuting absurd arguments, I'll take it. Thanks. > Don't say bad things about my forum!! Dipstick, scroll up to my earlier post in August in this thread. As I said, I've _never_ had a problem with constructive criticism. Complaints have come in which I've addressed throughout the years, particularly after this forum changed from it's older version a few years ago. The key difference here is that you and the other HIT dudes have yet to actually make any valid or useful points beyond “This is different and we don't like it.” > shuttled off to some never never land spot that nobody yoderkevin@example.org. Dude, the statistical fact is that _tons_ more discussions happen outside Darden's section than in it. Say what you mean. _You_ and a small handful of other guys don't want to click on other forums outside of Darden's, so _you_ think if it doesn't happen in Darden, then it doesn't happen. But that's simply wrong. Like, embarrassingly so. As I pointed out earlier (which you ignored), one of the Nautilus threads you started which were moved into the Bigger, Stronger, Leaner forum (because it had _nothing_ to do with Dr. Darden's work) got for over 240 replies. But, I guess no one really saw it. So @T3hPwnisher replied You once again display a very high opinion of yourself here my dude. I have tried many times to extend to olive branch to you. To which @entsminger replied I was joking! I guess you have no sense of humor? Scott After which, @T3hPwnisher added We don't have that kind of relationship my dude @mr.v3lv3t replied This thread man. I thought the internet was where all the tough guys went. So @entsminger replied I really don't care how many posts end up on a thread be it 250 or 2 . It's not a numbers game. When I post something on a Darden section of this forum my hope is to get responses from like minded people who are interested in Dardens thinking, not every guy who picks up a weight. I'm sure very few Darden followers are going to see this. Scott To which @Chris_Colucci replied entsminger: > I really don't care how many posts end up on a thread be it 250 or 2 . Objection, Your Honor. Witness is contradicting previous testimony. You can't say you're worried about threads being “shuttled off to some never never land spot that nobody looks at” and then, in the next breath, say you don't care how many replies your thread gets. Choose one thing to complain about and try to stick with it. > When I post something on a Darden section of this forum my hope is to get responses from like minded people who are interested in Dardens thinking Cool. That's exactly what happens with threads in the Darden Coaching forum, just like threads in Thibaudeau's Coaching forum get replies from people interested in his training methods and the Powerlifting forum gets replies from people interested in powerlifting. > I'm sure very few Darden followers are going to see this. Name five members you think should be seeing this who haven't already posted here. After which, @SkyzykS added T3hPwnisher: > This is not at all how the phrase “toe the line” works… Well, I learned something new today. So this thread has been somewhat productive. Then @dagill2 said SkyzykS: > So this thread has been somewhat productive You can nip that right in the bud. This is the Internet, its for arguments and porn. So @SkyzykS replied dagill2: > nip Hehe…hehe, you said nip! Hehe. Then @believer423 said I don't think the forum moved away from Darden, I think INTEREST moved away from Darden. After which, @average_al added Chris_Colucci: > As I pointed out earlier (which you ignored), **one of the Nautilus threads** you started which were moved into the Bigger, Stronger, Leaner forum **(because it had _nothing_ to do with Dr. Darden's work**) got for over 240 replies. I don't recall the content of the thread, but if you are suggesting that Darden's work has nothing to do with Nautilus, well… I just don't know how you drew that conclusion. He spent 20 years employed as the Director of Research for Nautilus Sports/Medical Industries. During that time, he was all about promoting the sale of Nautilus equipment. For a significant part of his career, HIT and Nautilus and Darden were so closely tied together as to be almost inseparable in the minds of many. So I can see why some old timers might feel that discussions about Nautilus gear would be a natural fit for his new forum. @Chris_Colucci replied average_al: > I don't recall the content of the thread Then commenting on whether or not the thread should've been moved is ill-advised, no? Thanks for the history lesson I already knew. The fact remains, the thread in question was moved because it was as relevant as trying to post an “Olympic Lifts and Other Barbell Exercises” thread in Thibaudeau's coaching forum. Thib spent many years as a high-level Olympic weightlifter, but a thread generally rambling about various exercises that are tangentially related to his background doesn't belong in his coaching forum. > I can see why some old timers might feel that discussions about Nautilus gear would be a natural fit for his new forum. Except that Entsminger was repeatedly, and in no unclear terms, told beforehand what will and will not end up in the Darden coaching forum. It just never managed to sink in, yet he still feigns indignation on the rare occasion threads get relocated. Then @mr.v3lv3t said You're really dying in the living room here man. After which, @melisnmatt added What about the 5 posts after these that you moved? Why weren't they moved somewhere else? What do peoples experience with zone reps have to do with the Darden forum?? More examples that you will of course blow off. You should at least appear to be consistent To which @Mod_Phoenix replied FYI let's keep the one-line personal attacks to ourselves, please. They serve no purpose in this thread. To which @pettersson replied @melisnmatt and @entsminger, Easy now! This calls out for a balanced response. Dr Darden renewed my interest in strength training and made me a HIT trainee, but I actually ended up on T Nation through some interesting articles by Nick Tumminello. Much to my surprise, Dr Darden reappeared here - which was/is great! I have learned a lot from Dr Darden and am very thankful for the results I have obtained from his ideas on HIT - and will make sure to continue follow his forum. That being said, I love to learn about different strategies - in order to make my workout/program a perfect hybrid construction of my own. Through T Nation I have met some interesting people, some who I have a lot in common with. I have learned and expanded my knowledge by listening to many forum members here, who also inspires me through their own efforts and ideas. Some HIT, some very different. I wouldn't wanna have it any other way. What I am trying to say is: I wouldn't have discovered Brian Johnston, Fortitude Training or the making of my hybrid program if it wasn't for sources within AND outside of the Darden forum. It helps me make the most out of my training. That's what I call evolution! We/us HIT trainees just need to keep an open mind. I mean, after all, isn't Arnold the greatest? Then @melisnmatt said Thats all great that you discovered other means of training thru Darden forum. The more we learn, the better it benefits us. My issue, and my point, is the selective enforcement of what should be in the forum, and what Colucci decides shouldn't. As I see there are other moderators, yet it's always 1 person moving posts. If posts talking about the old website don't belong, posts about Nautilus (where Darden worked for 20 yrs) don't belong, posts about Arthur Jones(the most influential instructor to Darden??) don't belong, then why would NUMEROUS posts within a thread about fortitude, zone reps etc. not be moved? As I said, a SERIOUS bias and extreme lack of consistency by 1 person is the issue here So @SkyzykS replied melisnmatt: > posts about Arthur Jones( If Arthur Jones wants his own forum then by gosh, he can have one. For real though, it's pretty clear to everyone else. Dardens training methodologies and writing = good. Not those things= gets bumped. It limits the signal to noise and makes sense from an accessibility standpoint. When someone new is interested in his books and methods, there he is, rather than conversations about people and machines that no longer exist. After which, @Mod_Phoenix added melisnmatt: > As I said, a SERIOUS bias and extreme lack of consistency by 1 person is the issue here As perceived by you. We all follow the same guidelines and rules. You need to also realize that Chris is the Forum Director for a reason. To which @pettersson replied To put it simple: “When on T Nation you do as the T Nationers do”. Meaning it may be wise to tread gently as we are the new neighbours here. We need to show respect in order to gain respect. I am doubtful this thread bring us closer to that. At least @planethealh made people happy. Now there is a risk of people getting tired of hearing about complaints from the Darden people. But on the other hand, Arthur Jones showed no mercy… Then @T3hPwnisher said pettersson: > But on the other hand, Arthur Jones showed no mercy… Dude was the master at not showing things. @flappinit replied Chris moves topics ALL the time, in every forum, and stops in to clarify what is and what isn't okay often, which includes locking threads altogether. There's just only one small group that continues to complain about it. I've had replies of mine moved, and I've been told explicitly to stop complaining about something. Almost everyone I know here has been checked. The addition of the **new** forum here was not a transplant of the old one, but you're treating it as such. @Chris_Colucci replied melisnmatt: > What do peoples experience with zone reps have to do with the Darden forum?? You mean the thread where Mark literally asked about a variety of training options and got 30+ replies (including from Dr. Darden, since it's his coaching forum); and then Mark said he was going to try a few different methods, including zone training (so, the guy who started the thread was the first to mention it); and then a few months later somebody bumped the thread to ask Mark about his experiences with zone training? Yeah, uh, that's not off-topic and doesn't need to be moved. If I start a thread in the Powerlifting forum and ask how to improve my bench, somebody's probably going to mention triceps pressdowns, and then a few posts might occur discussing triceps training. That's entirely on-topic. If I start a thread in the Powerlifting forum and just ask how to do triceps pressdowns or how to build triceps, that's not on-topic and will be moved to the Bigger, Stronger, Leaner forum where it's more appropriate. If you can't tell the difference between those situations, it's a good thing we have Moderators who can. > As I see there are other moderators, yet it's always 1 person moving posts. “I see other guys on the baseball diamond, yet it's always 1 person pitching the ball” … Dude, if I'm the one working when those posts come, because I work the day shift on weekdays, then I'm going to be the one to move them if needed. We apply the same standards across the board regardless of which Mod is working. > If posts talking about the old website don't belong Correct. Posts asking/critiquing/complaining about what goes on in this site don't belong in Dr. Darden's Coaching forum anymore than they belong in Thibaudeau's Coaching forum or the Beginners forum. They belong in the Forum Feedback section, because it's _feedback_ about the _forum_. > posts about Nautilus (where Darden worked for 20 yrs) don't belong I see about 20 threads asking Dr. Darden about Nautilus in his forum. I've already explained multiple times why Ents' thread was moved. Your thread about “Moving a Nautilus Double Chest” was moved because it wasn't about Nautilus, it was about moving a piece of equipment. And, unsurprisingly, you got useful replies. > posts about Arthur Jones(the most influential instructor to Darden??) don't belong There are several threads asking Dr. Darden about Arthur Jones in his forum. I have no idea which thread you're referring to as not belonging. > As I said, a SERIOUS bias After I'm done savoring the delicious irony of a fervent HIT fan accusing anyone of bias, I'll ask: What do you think I'm biased against/towards, why do you think that, and, after the points I've just presented, do you still think that? So @T3hPwnisher replied image550×550 34 KB After which, @fitafter40 added Wow, I like Darden being on this new forum and glad the old forum is gone…it was getting too stale for my taste, plus it gives me the opportunity to waste my time looking at other the forums and participate in useless discussion, lol I say wow because I can't believe some of you fellas are sitting here bitching and moaning about how the forum is run…newsflash, it's not about you, lol @wanna_be replied Just a random drive by comment for some of the guys not happy with Chris moving comments and posts and thinking it's just directed towards the new guys. Sometimes my posts get moved but more often than not they just get deleted. Chris is probably one of the most consistent and level headed moderators I've ever seen, and I'm a forum whore. Then @anna_5588 said Can someone please explain why its offensive to move a comment or thread? Then @wanna_be said After which, @heretolog added You could've removed the word “forum” To which @wanna_be replied I don't want to scare off the new guys, but yes. There's a chance I have some problems. To which @strongmangoals replied wanna_be: > Sometimes my posts get moved but **more often than not they just get deleted** I appreciate it, @Chris_Colucci To which @wanna_be replied I love you too big fella To which @dagill2 replied anna_5588: > Can someone please explain why its offensive to move a comment or thread If you work on the assumption that your subforum is a separate entity to the rest of the forum, it makes more sense. Try imagining what your feelings would be if T-Nation suddenly became a subforum on a rival site, maybe one with a big blue logo and it may make a little more sense. Then @SkyzykS said It's like putting something all the way over on the other side of the internet. Then @entsminger said Ok, let's see how many old forum members see this post about what Turpin might think of T Nation forums. Scott After which, @davemccright added I wasn't a part of that site but I checked it out a few times and one time I saw an old dude that Darden trained that was absolutely jacked and he had a mustache. Who was that guy? To which @entsminger replied Hmmmm? I'm sorry but thats not ringing a bell but I'm forgetting things faster than I'd like these days. I'm sure it won't be long before I forget there was a Darden forum. Scott After which, @davemccright added I tried to find Photos of him, but the site is totally gone. I guess he didn't make the jump After which, @mr.v3lv3t added entsminger: > Turpin Who's that? @entsminger replied Turpin was a no BS kind of guy who didn't nessesarily follow HIT to the letter as he'd swing kettle bells etc but he'd constantly post videos and pictures of his workouts and he built some substantial strength and lots of muscle. A mans man!
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