@Mizzz_Z_Hobbit (The Zombie Hobbit) posted a new topic, subject "After Delivery Fees? **ADVISORY!**". It read:

   Two weeks ago I received my order from Gear Best. It was supposedly coming through USPS who couldn't find it until it eventually showed up here with Fedex. The package itself was all beat to hell but everything was in working order so, no big deal. Now I get this seven page bill from Fedex demanding duty taxes and fees. I've clipped two relevant pieces from these pages to show.
    
    Fedex Billing Me - Copy.jpg1568×1064 506 KB
    
    Not only do the listed fees not match from one page to the next but 20$ for the FDA? There is no way in hell I'm paying them a dime! Has anyone ever heard of this? What are they going to do if I ignore them?
    
    ## UPDATE!
    
    Thanks to all of the wonderful folks on here with their wealth of knowledge and a lot of poking around, I've learned that in this case, it's not a scam. Fedex has paid these fees already on my behalf but their delivery department and their billing department are out of sync so that's why I'm getting this bill weeks later. It sucks but they paid it in good faith so yes, I will pay them.
    
    For those who didn't know this could happen, I didn't either. I've been ordering from overseas for years without ever seeing this, even from China. Given the recent news about hacking and scams I was skeptical but this does legitimately happen so here's a couple bits of advice about it.
    
    **1** \- Double check all the information in the invoice is accurate and that any website they're directing you to is the authentic website for your package carrier. Look up the official phone number for your carrier to make sure the one on your bill is the same. If not the same, call the official one you looked up. If your carrier has no record of your invoice number, then the letter you got is probably a scam.
    
    **2** \- The higher value your order is, the greater chance it will get pulled for inspection so if it's possible, break your order into smaller bundles of under $ 200 value. The extra you might pay in shipping will still be less than these fees. (And a HELL of a lot less aggravating than knowing the FDA is getting any money off me.)
    
    **3** \- If the invoice is legit but the info is inaccurate, the package carrier will tell you the steps to correct or amend the charges but don't stiff your package carrier no matter how pissed you might be. They paid your bill in good faith and don't deserve to be left out to dry.
    
    **4** \- Be mindful that this can happen to anyone, with any package of any value. Is the savings of buying from China really worth it if your country is going to charge you 10-50% of the value to deliver it? It's a gamble I will probably still make but now I know what can happen.

@fidalgo_vapes (fidalgo vapes) replied

    oh my goodness is that a flat 20 fee , how screwed is that ? im sure since fda is federal if you dont pay they may take it out of your tax return if you get one , id check if they send things to collections even though its a small dollar amount that 20 dollars can quickly double

@Cutlass92 (I'm just a guy) replied

    You need to call them and tell them you will self clear your package and then fill out the customs forms and pay the taxes, the $20.00 is a processing fee they charge.

To which @mstokens replied

    Almost sounds like a freaking nuclear device

@Mizzz_Z_Hobbit (The Zombie Hobbit) replied

    I already tossed out the whole thing, lol. I do have page 1 and 3 scanned though. This seems like a shake down to me. First of all, according to Gear Best it was sent from China through USPS. I don't know how Fedex got involved but that's not my responsibility. Their list of which fees are being charged don't even match. For all I know this is some kind of hacked fishing type of junk mail. I can scan the Fedex logo and send out bills too.

To which @RobQ (RobQ) replied

    Since I have never heard of them, I took a look at their site. Found this:
    
    > Taxes may apply for imported goods/services and is regulated by the country law. GearBest is not responsible for any tax invoice charged on its products. Shipping rates are estimates and may depend on different policies and tax rates applied per country. Please contact local customs for clarity and information.
    
    I'm thinking being based in an Asian country, couldn't find out which one, they tried to ship via USPS, but it had to go through FedEx at some point. Probably to get on to a transpacific flight. FedEx might have required FDA approval (not entirely sure, but I think USPS has the same policy). What ever the case might be, I don't think you'll be able to fight it.

@Cutlass92 (I'm just a guy) replied

    Check this out.  
    https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/internet-purchases

Then @mstokens said

    What was it declared as on the customs form? I think probably 99.99% of the vape stuff I purchase from China is declared as “Electronic Gadget”. That could possibly have something to do with it.

Then @ImNachogrl (Vicki ) said

    All very true… I've always wondered what those ' you may be responsible for unforeseen extra duty charges' …were or some such nonsense, ? Perhaps this is that? But, I'm w you they'd be in my trash too! Haaa pfft

Then @anon28032772 said

    I've always feared about these import duties   
    I remember way before my wife and I got married, when we sent packages back and forth between between countries, we had to pay import duties on even the smallest items.
    
    Here in the UK, I've looked around everywhere to find what taxes I had to pay if I bought from Gearbest or other foreign companies. My first purchases were only because even with taxes, it would still be a better deal than buying from a local shop. However, I didn't have to pay anything and I never understood why.
    
    Maybe Trump is cracking down on China, trying to keep business within the country? Have there been recent changes in import laws?  
    Might be good to try and find out with the proper authorities why the sudden change. Simply ignoring it may get you into more trouble, you don't want a fine on top of the extra tax.

So @RobQ (RobQ) replied

    anon28032772:
    
    > Maybe Trump is cracking down on China, trying to keep business within the country? Have there been recent changes in import laws?
    
    Good question. I've been watching the news more since he got “elected” and I don't recall any changes made to imports from China (or as Trump calls them Chiner). But the site posted earlier by Cutlass92 has a revision date of Feb. 2017, so maybe…

After which, @Mizzz_Z_Hobbit (The Zombie Hobbit) added

    It could be because my total was over 250$ or it could be a shakedown. It seems to me, if there was added expense in processing the package, I should have been notified when they made me sign for it. I'm suspicious though because I've ordered over 300$ from Heaven's Gifts and didn't get this. Also, as I said before the list of which fees are what, don't match from one page to another. If it's legit I'm sure they'll send another letter. To be honest, I'm more afraid Fedex will refuse to deliver my cat litter from Chewy than I am of the fuckin' FDA, lol.

So @BoDarc (BoDarc) replied

    You already have the item, which is a bad time to try and get some money from someone. This looks like a scam. Actual fees are usually required to be paid before you can receive the item. Hmmm a new scam? Did they ask you to pay the fees with $25 Amazon Gift cards?

So @SmilingOgre (Walt) replied

    It really does sound hokey doesn't it? Even if it is Fedex trying to recoup a bill, they have already spent more than the thirty bucks getting that notice out. Would have been better to eat it and move on at that point. Is it a scam or just dumb and dumber? That is the question.

Then @Mizzz_Z_Hobbit (The Zombie Hobbit) said

    No, it had an invoice that I was supposed to fill out my credit card info or a web site I could go to, I didn't even look at the address. I could fish this all out of the garbage if it's not soaked in coffee grounds by now, lol. This is my thought too, that it's some kind of scam but they did have the name I used to order listed right. It wasn't my real name but an authorized name through my Paypal. The card I had linked was a gift card which now has a balance of $1.27 so they can't get it that way. If I get another letter I'll keep it and post it.

@Duchesst (Duchesst) replied

    First off a bill after delivery seems fishy to me.
    
    Now I know here (Belgium) they can stop every item from outside the EU. Then usually they ask you to provide proof of what you paid for it, if it's below 22€ no fees, between 22€ and 150€ is a 15€ fee plus vat, above 150€ they can ask additional import duties and I think the processing fee is higher aswell (not sure about that last one). As far as I know this method is used in most off the EU

After which, @anon28032772 added

    I thought the online sales of electronic cigarettes is completely forbidden in Belgium?  
    Aren't they just going to confiscate everything at customs?
    
    It does sound like a scam, but just like it's fishy that they sent a bill after delivery, it's just as fishy that they knew about the package and what was in it.  
    Hence, if it were me, I wouldn't have thrown the bills out, try to contact some people and find out what this is and why this was sent to you. Even if it's just out of curiosity and if it's a scam and they can find out who's behind it, so much better.

Then @R113 (Russell) said

    thank you for this as i'll never buy from gear best. paypal is great for disputed claims. have you contacted them?

To which @IzNoGoat (Lars) replied

    anon28032772:
    
    > However, I didn't have to pay anything and I never understood why.
    
    Pure Luck 
    
    The packages send from China doesn't get declared or anything like that, instead it is a lottery of whether or nor they get opened and checked in customs. Had your package been opened in customs you would not only have had to pay VAT put also a ridiculously large processing fee similar to the OP.

To which @anon28032772 replied

    I wonder what will happen when governments across the globe catch up with globalization and realize what millions or billions of taxes they miss out on…

After which, @IzNoGoat (Lars) added

    Well online vapeshops here in Denmark have recently been complaining about unfair competition from China, because an old international postal agreement classified China as a developing country, and allowing them to send packages at only a fraction of the real shipping cost.
    
    Customs has also had a lot of focus on China and tries to open as many packages as they possible can, but they still can't open them all …

@DrChud (DrChud) replied

    It's simply a duty charge and as has been already pointed out it's a lotto whether your stuff get through or not, as most of the Chinese companies undervalue everything so you don't have to pay the charges. This is part of the reason they can do such good deals. If you use the likes of FedEx or USPS you're far more likely to have customs investigate what the actual value is, then you will incur the charges. It is very strange to get a bill after your goods have been delivered but the charge does look legit. I've had stuff stopped twice and had to provide proof of purchase and then charged 23% on the total value plus €10 handling fee, and then my stuff was released. I'm not quite sure why @R113 thinks this is an issue with gearbest as it's in their terms and conditions, and the charge is by the US government not GB or ‘China'.

@anon43988816 replied

    I did a little searching and it looks like fedex actually does pay duties up front and then bills customers after delivery. Which is pretty stupid on their part if you ask me. I read a few accounts of people not paying and having their bill go to collections, as well as people who didn't pay (sometimes multiple bills) and nothing came of it. @Mizzz_Z_Hobbit, I'd probably just wait and see if they send another bill. If they do, then contact fedex directly to make sure its legit. It sucks but if they're going to press the issue it would be better to just pay than to have it ding your credit.

So @DrChud (DrChud) replied

    I got a delivery of wire from Lightning vapes that came to €31, customs grabbed it and I got a bill for €17.20. Anything over the value of €22 is liable for import duty and they include shipping cost in that. Gift aren't exempt either if they're over the value of €45. They seem to be cracking down on it here and I know a few people that had to cough up. For the valuation customs would only accept a screenshot of your paypal or bank transaction.

Then @anon43988816 said

    DrChud:
    
    > they include shipping cost in that.
    
    Whuuuut, that's messed up.

@DrChud (DrChud) replied

    I should have the letter somewhere. I kept it in case anyone else had stuff stopped and I could show them the official stance on it.

To which @anon28032772 replied

    DrChud:
    
    > Gift aren't exempt either if they're over the value of €45.
    
    This is completely ridiculous   
    Soon you're going to see people turning down giveaways.

Then @DrChud (DrChud) said

    It even says that the gift must be a one off occasion such as a birthday. I dunno how they'd check that one but it's in there lol

Then @DrChud (DrChud) said

    19983765_165172390693419_9217645144457486015_o.jpg1000×1666 197 KB

So @anon28032772 replied

    outch!  
    10chars

So @DrChud (DrChud) replied

    That was just on a value of €31.38

To which @Duchesst (Duchesst) replied

    An american friend off my wife made a quilt for the misses. When she sent it she declared it was a gift and had a value off 100 dollars (the poor thing thought it was for insurance), yep you guessed it my wife had to pay customs to get the gift from her dear friend

To which @anon28032772 replied

    I remember quilts are very labor intensive…my mom used to be in that business. It's a good thing your friend didn't count working hours then or you might have had a pretty hefty customs bill

To which @Duchesst (Duchesst) replied

    Yeah that would have been a killer. Its a very nice piece aswell the woman has mad skillz

So @R113 (Russell) replied

    It's because I didn't know. i hardly ever order from overseas companies

So @Mizzz_Z_Hobbit (The Zombie Hobbit) replied

    VapeyMama:
    
    > I did a little searching and it looks like fedex actually does pay duties up front and then bills customers after delivery. Which is pretty stupid on their part if you ask me. I read a few accounts of people not paying and having their bill go to collections, as well as people who didn't pay (sometimes multiple bills) and nothing came of it. @Mizzz_Z_Hobbit, I'd probably just wait and see if they send another bill. If they do, then contact fedex directly to make sure its legit. It sucks but if they're going to press the issue it would be better to just pay than to have it ding your credit.
    
    Thanks so much to you and everyone else for chiming in. My research also turned up similar information. Like some of you have said, it's a crap shoot. They don't check all the packages but when they get you, you get an extra fee and Fedex pays it for you.
    
    I did get the letters out of the garbage and they **are** directing me to Fedex.com but I'm not giving them my new card. I'll go into the office here and pay in cash since I'm not kennethmiller@example.org. It's not even the extra duty of 3$ or the handling of 7$; it's the FDA charge of 20$ that has me so pissed. That's not Fedex's fault.
    
    I'll edit my original post to reflect all of this for the sake of newer folks who didn't know this could happen. I've been ordering stuff from overseas, China included for many years and never had this issue. From what I gather, the higher value the item, the greater chance it'll get snagged. It costs them the same amount to inspect a package whether it's $50 or $500 so they aim for the higher end stuff because the fees will make it worth their while.
    
    Again, thanks so much fam!

@anon28032772 replied

    DrChud:
    
    > That was just on a value of €31.38
    
    And the UK still wants this to happen with the whole Brexit shambles… insane   
    I get that sovereignty may be worth a price, but these things will hurt badly.

After which, @TorturedZen (Libertine Extraordinaire) added

    This shit is why I'll never order anything from China!

@RobQ (RobQ) replied

    Same here. Last time I ordered anything from China it took over a month to come it, and when it did come in it was a counterfeit and didn't work. They refused to give me a refund or even to repair it. Too much shady shit happens when you deal with some of these Chinese companies.

Then @Mizzz_Z_Hobbit (The Zombie Hobbit) said

    Hey guys, none of this is Gear Best's fault. There are a lot of excellent Chinese vendors out there and there are a lot of shit companies in every other country on the globe. These charges come from American customs policy. This isn't a hate on China thread.

After which, @anon28032772 added

    @TorturedZen @RobQ I had the same feeling about ordering stuff from China for a long while…
    
    BUT   
    I've ordered stuff from China, Japan, Taiwan and other Asian places after seeing many happy customers and even though I hear the horror stories, I've always had relatively good customer support, great prices, speedy delivery (within 2 weeks to UK, except the stuff through Amazon and I haven't used fasttech or slowtech yet) and no customs charges.
    
    If I'd order something now and get taxed, overall I still would've paid less than buying local. I'm aware of the freak stories but I don't let them scare me just yet. They're far too few and far apart. Tthere is a good chance that these things will change in the future but even that is not guaranteed.

After which, @Duchesst (Duchesst) added

    Well I get one or more Chinese packages every week (usually under 22€). The times my package got picked out I can probably count on 1 hand and even after fees it usually doesn't add up to more then buying locally. So for the time being I'll keep ordering there and save serious bucks.  
    There are calculators online which give you an indication off what I could cost you, use them before you make an order and then decide if it's worth it (at least till you know the average ballpark). An informed man makes better decisions.

@RobQ (RobQ) replied

    Mizzz_Z_Hobbit:
    
    > Hey guys, none of this is Gear Best's fault. There are a lot of excellent Chinese vendors out there and there are a lot of shit companies in every other country on the globe. These charges come from American customs policy. This isn't a hate on China thread.
    
    Neither of us said it was Gear Beasts fault. And I suppose I was a bit vague which could be misconstrued as something against China. I should have been more thorough in my post and I apologize for that. The company I dealt with was a third party on Amazon. I didn't even know they were in China since they used a PO box in California.
    
    I agree with you that there are lots of shit companies in the world. I worked for Sears Holdings, the king of shit companies. And I agree that it is not fair to treat all companies within a country in a negative fashion. But you have to understand that some of us were essentially robbed and/or treated poorly and couldn't do much in response due to an ocean between the two countries and a language barrier. Thus the old saying comes to mind; once bitten, twice shy.
    
    If it were a different country, I would hold the same opinion. As a matter of fact I will not and do not purchase from any country other than the US due to my experience and how I was treated and that there was little I could do about it.
    
    I harbor no ill feelings towards China or any persons or organizations within China. I got ripped off, learned my lesson and have moved on.

Then @Sprkslfly (Rob) said

    anon28032772:
    
    > …across the globe catch up with globalization and realize…
    
    Grrr… You're approaching “bannable territory” IMO. 
    
    NEVER point out to the bureaucratic idiots _the obvious_!!! WTF? Are you _trying_ to incite multiple simultaneous head explosions?!? /smh
    
    Oh wait. Perhaps that's not such a bad thing after all. Carry on please! **But only if** the desired outcome mentioned above is the final result!

To which @juice_junkie_lover (juice junkie) replied

    This happened to me when I ordered nic from hiliq. I believe I paid them $40. Now I make sure when I order from hiliq I use dhl instead of fedex! I've no problems since I've started using dhl. I've probably ordered 3 times with dhl.

So @Blues (Blues ) replied

    @juice_junkie_lover you took the words out of my mouth… DHL is a much better way to go when buying international… as you can see…

Then @SthrnMixer (Robert ) said

    Before a package that has customs/duties due is released by customs, those fees must be paid. Do tell, why would FedEx pay those fees for someone unless they are a FedEx customer with a line of credit in good standing? Believe me, as a transportation person myself, I know full well I've had cargo sitting in customs for days on end because the responsible party had not paid the associated fees. Nothing about this sounds legit.

To which @anon43988816 replied

    Fedex's website says that they will often cover the fees, and then will either deliver the item and bill the recipient _or_ they'll hold the package until the recipient pays the fees. I'm guessing it has to do with how much the fees are, especially if the recipient doesn't have an account with them. I would imagine they'd be more likely to hold a package that had high duty fees than one that has a small fee like $30. But that's just my guess…

@Beaufort_Batches (The Distinguished Mixer) replied

    juice_junkie_lover:
    
    > I've no problems since I've started using dhl
    
    I use this method whenever possible. It seems to be the most reliable non-problamic shipping and not too bad on ship times.

@SthrnMixer (Robert ) replied

    VapeyMama:
    
    > I would imagine they'd be more likely to hold a package that had high duty fees than one that has a small fee like $30. But that's just my guess…
    
    I'd imagine you're right. I deal with freight often valued over $100k so the duties are considerably higher.

After which, @KumariHPX (Daddy of the Mack Daddy) added

    I am so done with China. The full spectrum of abuses permitted/encouraged in the country, all fueled by our insatiable consumerist (and “disposable income”) desire for cheap trash and shiny objects is revolting.

Then @IzNoGoat (Lars) said

    The same thing just happened for me 
    
    Normally when I order bits n' stuff from China, I make sure to split it into different packages so the value of each package is below the limit, but this time I forgot to do it. I actually noticed it later and thought about contacting FT and ask them to split it into two packages, but then I thought _Nah… what is the odds that they will check this package, when every single other package I have ordered have gone through without being checked_
    
    Well as it turns out, that is exactly what happened, and I just received a bill which is 50% larger that what I paid for the actual items 
    
    Right now I'm contemplating whether or I should pay it, or just let them return the package to FT. Returning it is definitely cheaper, but it would also mean that I would have to wait at least an extra month to get the items

Then @anon28032772 said

    KumariHPX:
    
    > desire for cheap trash and shiny objects
    
    Whether you buy it straight from China or you go buy it in your local vape shop, it's still the exact same cheap trash and shiny objects. Besides the DNA boards and some custom mods, pretty much everything vape related is made in China. The only difference is that the shop owner orders it, pays duties and taxes and then sells it on with a profit, all for your convenience.

So @KumariHPX (Daddy of the Mack Daddy) replied

    They do it for my money.
    
    Thanks


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