@darknight (d smith) posted a new topic, subject "Emblem Path – Do you choose the +2% mana generation or the alternate path". It read:

   For a sniper hero, i have prioritized choosing the Attack path for emblems.  
    For a tank hero, I have prioritized choosing the Strength path for emblems.  
    I have chosen to strengthen my heros strengths rather than improved its weaknesses.
    
    Seems a majority of the time when I get to the branch of selecting a +2% in mana generation the alternate path is Attack / Strength option of the hero.
    
    Would like to know which path others have selected. Do you choose the +2% mana generation or the alternate path. Mana generation can be improve by leveling troops, but taking the +2% mana regeneration would require lower level troops to achieve the 1 less tile to charge up special power.

@Rigs (Rigs) replied

    I dont choose the mana node on any hero
    
    If you're leveling troops which is inevitable really  
    You'll hit lvl 23 troops at some point. Even without heavy spending.
    
    And really the only mana breaks to be concerned with:  
    Vfast= 7 to 6 tiles  
    Average= 10 to 9
    
    Rest don't matter much in terms of 3x3 matches.
    
    With emblems, especially on 5s i always go for the stat increases over other perks
    
    Crit, healing, mana, can all be gained with troops and without the troops they don't amount to squat anyways
    
    Exceptions would probly be if it's an average 4* hero that you'll reset at some point anyways then i could see takin the mana node for temporary use, especially on a healer(keep in mind costumes are different as they need much lower troops than when u dont have the costume)

So @Olmor (rubber duck hunter ) replied

    Does it affect mana generation on defense?

So @Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) replied

    best to use the hero for there stronger abilities! And who else you use In your team! Most my 4* are 7-9 emblems jackal n ammennoa are higher as they hit fn hard

To which @amessofamind replied

    I'm currently working my second mana troop to 17, so with some average speed heroes I may select some mana nodes, not 100 on that though. Will mess with it when I have to make that choice on a few important heroes.

To which @Rigs (Rigs) replied

    Not really
    
    I mean for any average mana, they'll typically be in front 3
    
    For mn or alby i would rather have a defensive troop
    
    Dont notice a difference in fast mana wings
    
    Vfast sure but they only need lvl 11 so…
    
    Just from my experience
    
    On defense
    
    Not being able to kill a tank with 3 mono tiles due to defense node and crit troops is a lot more noticeable to me than a hero firing a turn sooner

So @holmanski replied

    I have three Jackals. I took the 2% on one of them because I only had one 4* lvl 11 mana troop. I brought another 4* mana troop to lvl 5 so that one goes on my 2% Jackal and the 4* lvl 11 goes on the other. My third has a 4* lvl 9 crit troop. If I'm attacking with all three.
    
    Anyway. Troops are dang spendy. That 2% can shave a tile sooner. Others are right though. One day you'll have all the troops you want leveled. Some day. It's a grind.

To which @solipsism replied

    I generally avoid, but it depends on what the other option is.
    
    With Proteus for example, at 19 you can choose between mana or +2% healing bonus. I think healing bonus isn't worth much so I'll take the mana. Some might not take a hero all the way to 20 in general, but that's another topic.
    
    While it's true that you eventually hit the higher targets with mana troops, but when you get to the point of levelling additional troops for stacking it might still be useful. For example if I have a raid team including Kage and Proteus, I'd ideally like to bring my best troop for Kage to increase attack, and have another troop that's just enough to shave a tile for Proteus.

So @Hcmitchellr replied

    Getting a rainbow of level 23 mana troops is hard enough. Getting 3 or more sets is almost unthinkable.
    
    Not saying that the mana route is always best, but it should get carful consideration. If you know that hero will never get paired with that lvl 23 mana troop or will never get a costume, you might want to take that mana boost.

So @hothom replied

    I look at Ammenona and only see that she vanishes. No attack special and her special only makes her not hittable. So WHY level to say the least about embleming(I've got her @1-1but dont know why Ive kept her)

Then @anon38391235 said

    I did choose the mana node for alasie, Alice and Evelyn as I currently got level 23 mana troops and it will take ages, until I have a set of level 29 troops.  
    So it's for me currently the best choice as two of the three use the level 23 troop on defense.  
    and depending on my other heroes, also on attack.

Then @LucasDaoc (Kevin) said

    I chose mana on certain “secondary” heroes who would benefit from a mana troop under 23.
    
    Example: Jackal got the mana node because just a level 5 mana troop is easy, and Delilah doesn't have to give up her 23 mana troop.

@Rob_DI replied

    I chose mana on Seshat. I know it doesn't come in to play a ton, but since I have lvl 23 mana troops, charging her with a 4-match and then a 3-match has won a few raids for me.

After which, @poopcorn (poopcorn) added

    I only have lvl 15 mana troop so I gave Seshat the mana increase of 2%. My understanding is that once she fires, her 4% boost, 2% node, and 9% from lvl 11 mana troops, gives her 15%. The 15% allows for her to charge with 7 tiles instead of 8. Is this justifiable, or is 7 tiles not much of a difference?

After which, @solipsism added

    Why not just level your troop up to 17, if you're that close already?

@poopcorn (poopcorn) replied

    Well I started with crit troops and they are at lvl 15, started mana after I obtained them, and just got them to lvl 15 recently. I am out of food so lvl 17 is far away still.

Then @Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) said

    IMG_0678640×1136 693 KB
    
    Look at her attack! Then when she in ghost gets +82% on top that! Hits harder than a 5* actually in ghost prob hits harder than anyone in the game!

So @SWEG replied

    I chose mana on buddy and I'm happy I did because him charging at the same time as Evelyn, liannna and Kingston is basically necessary. It's one of my best teams, 9 green tiles is a victory every time. I just have to avoid Gravemaker teams.

To which @SWEG replied

    I'd choose mana node on average mana heroes whenever possible assuming you have lvl17 troop or even close to it. Like somebody else said making one lvl23 troop will happen _eventually_ but TWO lvl23 troops, that's not so easy

To which @solipsism replied

    Right but you have to look at the whole picture. She has a good self-cleanse and self-buff, but compare with Rigard costume who cleanses entire team, boosts attack to entire team, and heals entire team. 5 heroes at +48% is going to do a lot more tile damage to one hero at +82%.

So @Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) replied

    Don't have rigard or costume!  Got kiril+9 BT+7 for boosts.  
    She great on titans and believe me she helped me in war and raids by being the last one floating.  
    I didn't have a purple to level n lack sorcerers happy with my choice, use what you got for your advantage.

@solipsism replied

    I hear you. Sorcerer is a very thin class so I totally get using emblems on her if you don't have Sabina, and she is good on Titans.

To which @Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) replied

    Only just got Sabina from my last tc20 monthly pull! My next project after jabberwok, prob take amennoa to +15 and give Sabina some prob to +7

Then @Math-Teacher said

    You are incorrect. Ms. Ghost isn't great on titans-she's fantastic.

After which, @hothom added

    so u level the ghost for tile damage?

@MD-DC replied

    I would say that the unfortunate answer that I usually give is “it depends.”
    
    For most people, no, it's not worth it. For some people and with some heroes, I think the benefit could help bridge the gap between effectiveness and usability depending on their goals and long-term plans with the game.
    
    Here were the maths I did in another thread: Is it useful to bring a hero that's worth upgrading, to tier 20 completely? - #11 by MD-DC I didn't look at Very Fast heroes because I don't have any.
    
    Basically, there are break points one needs to get to for the mana troops/boosts to have any tangible benefit from the offense in terms of tiles.
    
    For most practical purposes, fast heroes never gain a benefit (going from 8 to 7 tiles) barring Rob_DI's experience earlier in this thread which is a bit of a corner case. This is because in a match-3 game, in most instances they have to be multiples of 3 to gain a practical benefit and since one is generally going to have to make 9 tiles anyway in most circumstances, so whether or not you gain that one tile benefit for a fast hero is irrelevant in most situations. Sometimes in a few corner cases it will matter, but the majority of the time it won't because you were already winning or losing anyway. The same goes for Slow heroes who go from 12 to 11 tiles because, once again, you're still going to generally have to match 12 tiles anyway, so that tile benefit makes no difference since the extra mana is lost if the hero is already at max mana.
    
    So for most people, the only real benefit is going to be an average speed hero who goes from 10 tiles to 9 which is a very significant break point since this means that they functionally charge at the same rate as fast heroes. So instead of having to make a 12 match to charge most average heroes, you only need to make a 9 match which is the difference of one turn which early in the game WILL matter. In order to meet this break point, one needs to get a total of +13% mana generation.
    
    Now that said, the caveat must be made that over time, the heroes will fall out of sync. This is more relevant in challenges, events, and Titans where the match goes on long enough to matter. In raids, wars, and tournaments, one doesn't always have the time for this to make a difference. Over time, the one(s) with the mana troops will charge faster, and the average hero will fall out of sync with the fast heroes. But for the critical initial turns of a raid/war/tournament, they're functionally identical.
    
    I don't consider hero ability mana generation to be relevant because heroes like Alberich, Misandra, Ariel, Khagan etcetera are not active in the initial first few turns and never will be. It will matter in the long run, so they'll be more useful for Titans and events, but for raids and the like, the ability can basically be ignored. If you're at a point where you've activated said hero, you're probably already winning. For tight matches, it will matter, but tight matches are rarer than blowouts, one way or the other.
    
    SO the key question for a person to consider is:
    
      * Would this particular, average speed hero make a critical difference activating a turn sooner? Examples of heroes where this is more likely to matter are Rigard, Kiril, Boldtusk, and Wilbur. Heroes where this is less likely to matter are Cyprian, Kashhrek, Sabina, and Thorne.
      * Do I have the emblems to get them the +2% mana speed boost? Paladins get that at +19, and if your Thorne is nowhere close to that, the question is not relevant.
      * Do I have a corresponding mana troop that's level 11/17 (Monks, Sorcerers, and Druids get +4% mana gen at +20)?
      * Do I have a mana troop at level 23+?
    
    
    
    If a player does not have critical, game-changing heroes, the investment is a bit of a waste. If a player does not have mana troops at least at level 11 or 17 (depending on hero), this is a bit of a waste since the node provides no practical benefit. If the player already has a mana troop level 23 or higher, this is unnecessary since the mana troop provides the breakpoint mana gain by default regardless of talent nodes, and the additional +2% mana gain basically makes no difference.
    
    So for most people, no there is no benefit. But in a few specific instances it would matter.
    
    That's why I got/kept the mana nodes for Rigard, Wilbur, Merlin, and Sabina, and for matches where I think it will matter (versus enemy Gravemaker, enemy Wilbur, enemy riposte for instance), I make sure they have the mana troop. For everybody else (Caedmon, Chao, and Sonya for example), I pretend it doesn't exist. I did not get them for Boldtusk (I have no snipers for him to synergize with and usually bring Ares anyway, so the point usage is better served elsewhere) or Kiril (he's either part of an average-speed combo with Frida, Richard, and/or Grimm and doesn't have the Wizard emblems to get to +19 yet anyway).

Then @Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) said

    Well was really my only option to level at the time! So read up about her on here saw the positives and negatives.  
    People who actually played with regularly and leveled emblemed her made the choice easier then those who haven't! In my opinion she worth the mats definitely, emblems is my choice but still wouldn't hurt to take to +7

Then @hothom said

    What if you have mana troops who are level 17+ which have a 11% mana bumps on them, So does the makes a slow average and a average fast?

@Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) replied

    I think it's level 11 and 23 on mana troops that you get the bouns on them! I believe what you say is correct but my knowledge on troops ain't that great!  
    @rigs @Scarecrow @Guvnor maybe can give better advice

After which, @Guvnor (I Am Groot) added

    1556333451442778×617 102 KB
    
    To get the tile reduction you need to sum the mana boost % to be above the break points specified in the middle of the picture.
    
    So for slow to become average you need a 20% boost.  
    For average to become fast you need a 25% boost.
    
    Only sources which have that big a boost are special skills like Ariel or Sir Lancelot or Bauchen.

So @Guvnor (I Am Groot) replied

    Adding to this, the sources of mana boost are:
    
      * Mana troops (5% to 15%, level dependent)
      * Class node (2% or 4%, class depending)
      * Elemental link (4%)
      * Special skills (24% - Ariel, Khagan, Bauchen, Sir Lancelot, Danzaburo)
      * Wonderland Family Bonus (2%/ 4%/ 7%/ 12%)
      * Sakura Family Bonus (2%/ 4%/ 7%/ 12%)
      * Costume Bonus (Select S1 heroes only)

@Dudeious.Maximus (Dudeious) replied

    Danza? Also Sakura family bonus?

Then @amessofamind said

    And costumes as well.

Then @hothom said

    so the 17 troop with 11% mana with a 2 or 4% will subtract only one tile???

So @Guvnor (I Am Groot) replied

    Yes.

So @hothom replied

    and without the hero emblem bump it might do anything?

After which, @Guvnor (I Am Groot) added

    For very slow & slow it will remove 1 tile.
    
    For the rest, no the lvl17 on its own won't do anything.

So @Wolfjack (Jason) replied

    What is the difference between class bonus and class 20 bonus?

After which, @Guvnor (I Am Groot) added

    Class bonus = left or right = 2% mana boost  
    Class 20 bonus = last node on two of the trees = 4% mana boost

@LadyAchilles (Kingston’s Wife 💋) replied

    Out of Mana and Crit boost for Falcon at node 19 which makes the most sense for him?
    
    image828×1792 289 KB

After which, @Rigs (Rigs) added

    I'd go mana node if i had to choose

After which, @Arthemis (Artemis ) added

    Screenshot_20200129-141136_Empires1200×1920 1.04 MB
    
    Screenshot_20200129-141129_Empires1200×1920 582 KB
    
    Help! I need some opinions.  
    Mana troop currently on level 14.

To which @Guvnor (I Am Groot) replied

    Quoting myself from another thread below with evidence etc…
    
    In essence, for average to go to fast (i.e. from 10 → 8 tiles to charge), you need a 25% mana boost. This is not happening for Puss without a special skill being fired (e.g Ariel, Khagan etc…)
    
    The other break point is for 10 tiles → 9 tiles (1 tile reduction) which needs 12% mana boost. This is much more achievable.  
    Puss Mana Node = 2%  
    Need a level 17 mana troop to get the break point (11%)
    
    Alternatively something like an elemental link (+4%) in red will drop the mana troop level needed down to a level 5 troop.
    
    Mana 10% bonus from Costumes [it's actually 5%]
    
    > ## Chart:
    > 
    > _Note, small error in that it is level 29-30 mana troop which gives +15% mana bonus_
    > 
    > ## Chart Explanation:
    > 
    > Chart indicates the break points for mana troops.
    > 
    > Essentially the left side defines the base parameters…
    > 
    >   * How many tiles each speed mana needs to charge
    >   * What % mana boost the troops give
    >   * What % mana boost the class bonus gives
    > 
    
    > 
    > The middle calculates how much mana boost is needed to change the number of tiles needed to charge the mana speeds.
    > 
    > The right side aligns those mana boost requirements with the troops levels/ class node combinations.
    > 
    > ## Sources of Mana Boosting
    > 
    > The sources of mana boost are:
    > 
    >   * Mana troops (5% / 7% / 9% / 11% / 13% / 15%, level dependent)
    >   * Class node (2% or 4%, class depending)
    >   * Elemental link (4%)
    >   * Special skills (24% - Ariel, Khagan, Bauchen, Sir Lancelot, Danzaburo)
    >   * Pirates Family Bonus (2%/ 4%/ 7%/ 12%)
    >   * Wonderland Family Bonus (2%/ 4%/ 7%/ 12%)
    >   * Sakura Family Bonus (2%/ 4%/ 7%/ 12%)
    >   * Costume Bonus (Select S1 heroes only - 5%)
    >   * Helheim & Niflheim Relm Bonus (7% / 12%) [SEASON 3 - BETA]
    > 
    
    > 
    > ## Average to Fast
    > 
    > Average Mana = 10 tiles to charge (normally)  
    >  Fast Mana = 8 tiles to charge (normally)
    > 
    > From the Chart, to go from 10 tiles to 8 tiles needs a 25% mana boost.
    > 
    > This can be achieved using any combination of mana boost which gets to 25% (or more).  
    >  So you can do it with:
    > 
    >   * Costume Bonus (5%) + Level 29 Mana Troop (15%) + Elemental Link (+4%) + Class Bonus (2%) = 26%
    >   * Costume Bonus (5%) + Special Skill Buff (+24%) = 29%
    >   * etc…
    >

@NatzvV606 replied

    Guvnor - I am about to reach node 19 for Krunchen and like to chose 2% mana boost. My troop level is 24. Does this mean Krunchen mana improved from Slow to Average?

Then @Nightmare2048 said

    I don't usually take mana node but with Sif I think I'll make an exception. Charging her with 9 tiles with emblems at node 8 and Mana Troop Lv.17 is indeed very tempting …

Then @Guvnor (I Am Groot) said

    From above, average mana needs 10 tiles to charge (with no boosts) and slow mana needs 12.
    
    To drop slow mana to average mana, you need a total boosted mana generation of 20%
    
    So even with a level 29 mana troop (15%) and the class mana talent (2%) you're still 3% short.

So @PM229 replied

    I am up to node 19 for MN and really don't know what to chose since I always have a level 17 mana for higher for her anyway. Thoughts?

Then @Cruzcampo said

    I suppose my case is unique, but I have pulled inordinately from mana boosters. Misandra, Alby, Ariel, Khagan, Brynhild, and the 3s. I usually take the mana bonus and give the heroes I know have the bonus the lesser mana troops. It's provided a lot more serviceability among the non emblemed, and Misandra or Alby can in certain cases knock out a charge a turn earlier.
    
    Edit: I really have to wonder if C. Isarnia +20 with L29 mana troops would pull it off

After which, @AnthonyArc (Anthony) added

    I know it's kinda a necro topic, but i just have a question about average heroes with costume bonus.  
    Am i right that for heroes like Richard, Rigard, Kirill etc (average+costume) mana node is totally useless if you have at least 5 lvl mana troops? Or there is some kind of use it?

After which, @sleepyhead (GIVE ME MY COFFEE) added

    @AnthonyArc , average heroes with costume already get 5% from costume + 7% from level 5 mana troop, =12%, firing in 9 tiles.
    
    to get down to 8 tiles, they need +25%. with the +2% node they will only get 14%, so still 11% short. Unless you have other sources of mana boost (e.g. special skills like Ariel), it won't help.
    
    the use cases for the mana node could be in Rush Attack, where heroes are set to Very Fast. 9% mana boost is needed to drop from 6.5 tiles to 6 tiles. so 5% costume + 2%/4% mana node + a lower level mana troop to give the last % could work.
    
    Emblem Path – Do you choose the +2% mana generation or the alternate path Gameplay Help & Tactics
    
    > Quoting myself from another thread below with evidence etc… In essence, for average to go to fast (i.e. from 10 -> 8 tiles to charge), you need a 25% mana boost. This is not happening for Puss without a special skill being fired (e.g Ariel, Khagan etc…) The other break point is for 10 tiles -> 9 tiles (1 tile reduction) which needs 12% mana boost. This is much more achievable. Puss Mana Node = 2% Need a level 17 mana troop to get the break point (11%) Alternatively something like an element…

To which @Gimliv replied

    I play mono most of the time. So often there is a tile or two missing to fill up the mana. The difference between 8 or 9 tiles could be crucial. You can get 8 tiles with a 3 and a 4 tile combination. The 4 tiles create a single dragon tile giving the eight tile. So I always choose the mana nodes on four and five star heroes. Even the costumed heroes can benefit from mana nodes because I have an hero who gives mana via elemental link in most mono teams ( Elradir, Malicna, Yang Mai).
    
    Happy gaming


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