@Basement_Gainz posted a new topic, subject "USP Labs Execs Plead Guilty". It read:

   USP labs execs and owners just plead guilty to some pretty serious fraud charges (falsifying import docs, mislabeling ingredients etc…)
    
    I took the original jack3d back when it had DMAA in it. It was amazing, and apparently hepatoxic… ruh roh.
    
    I wonder what all the supplement companies who previously made pro-hormones (including Biotest) are thinking right about now. Pro hormones are basically designer steroids and upon discovery I'm sure there'd be emails at every company where senior management acknowledges they know their products cause shutdown or other side effects.
    
    Mods; didn't know if this thread would fly. Kill it of if it's against TOS. Not advocating for another supp company, just discussion.
    
    Dallas News – 18 Mar 19
    
    ### Dallas lab owners admit to multi-million-dollar scheme to fraudulently sell...
    
    USP Labs' sales pitch got customers' attention: The Dallas company sold products developed by "the world's top pharmacists & scientists;"...

@chris_ottawa replied

    I tried Jack3d a few times, years ago. It got me all hyped up for like 30 minutes and then you crash and feel like complete shit for the rest of the day. At least that was my experience.
    
    DMAA was banned in Canada a few years ago, is it still legal in the US?
    
    A lot of supplements have banned substances, there was one pre-workout called Craze that had some sort of amphetamines in it. That's the same one that made Jesse Norris test positive. At the gym I used to go to there were a bunch of people who were all into that stuff, a couple of them even said they were hooked on it and no other preworkout could compare. I wonder why.

After which, @anon10035199 added

    Basement_Gainz:
    
    > I took the original jack3d back when it had DMAA in it. It was amazing, and apparently hepatoxic… ruh roh.
    
    Fucking A, maybe this is why my SHBG is so high. I took DMAA , in jacked, and by itself for quite a while.
    
    chris_ottawa:
    
    > It got me all hyped up for like 30 minutes and then you crash and feel like complete shit for the rest of the day. At least that was my experience.
    
    Yea, I had the same effect, it was a decent stimulant though, but it crashed hard. I usually fell asleep after my workouts on those days.

@anon10035199 replied

    chris_ottawa:
    
    > DMAA was banned in Canada a few years ago, is it still legal in the US?
    
    Not sure, but they have moved on to a new one called Dimethlylheptane DMPA (I believe)

Then @chris_ottawa said

    I'm surprised how light their sentences will be, the most time any one of them is facing is 6 years. Especially considering that people died from this stuff, that just doesn't sound right. You hear about people in the US getting decades for seemingly small crimes, like selling weed and stuff like that, how does this make sense?

Then @anon10035199 said

    Yea I remember while I was still in the service a few guys took DMAA and went on a forced road march (STUPID idea) in Georgia.
    
    It was banned from military use after that.

So @chris_ottawa replied

    What happened to them?

So @SkyzykS replied

    There is a name in there that sounded very familiar with a style that I recognize.

@enackers replied

    An ounce of weed would get folks 10 years in prison and this guy gets a slap in his hand. I agree it's fucked. Obvious fraud.

After which, @anon10035199 added

    They died. Dehydration I think.

Then @Basement_Gainz said

    enackers:
    
    > An ounce of weed would get folks 10 years in prison and this guy gets a slap in his hand.
    
      1. That's only in dumb jurisdictions like Texas. In Alaska weed is a traffic ticket.
    
      2. It's hard to prosecute the owners/officers of a business for crimes. They can use the cashflow of the business to defend themselves. This is good and bad. You've got these jerks skating. But on the other hand if there was no limited liability you'd have Mrs. McGillicutty with $500 in Boeing stock getting sued over the 737 max deaths.
    
      3. Money buys justice.

@guineapig replied

    Is this not the BlackStone Labs / Redcon guy?

After which, @chris_ottawa added

    Basement_Gainz:
    
    > That's only in dumb jurisdictions like Texas. In Alaska weed is a traffic ticket.
    
    The funny thing is that USP Labs was based in Dallas.

@Basement_Gainz replied

    Irony thy name is Texas.

After which, @enackers added

    In the Midwest when I was younger I got probation for an ounce of weed. 12 years prison if I didn't complete 5 years clean. Bs. Nonsense. Regardless I agree

After which, @chris_ottawa added

    Was that possession or you got caught selling it?
    
    Still, 12 years is double the maximum sentence for selling falsely labelled supplements that kill people. Something is seriously wrong.

Then @enackers said

    Possession. They charged me with possession to distribute. I realized later my lawyer was an idiot and jsut accepted what was offered. Dope
    
    There are so many men and woman in prison because of marijuana.

After which, @marine77 added

    Nobody is in prison for small amounts of weed. That's a lie that needs to stop being spread.
    
    Its either a plea down from distribution amounts OR weed possession was an additional charge. Kinda like the lie that blacks receive harsher sentences for the same crimes as whites. What people leave out is prior history and or additional charges.

Then @enackers said

    The pot calling kettle black. Police officer in the city being led to believe he's locking up folks who are given equal qwhite@example.net. Brain washed with hate and ignorance.
    
    Only an arrogant fool would respond in such a manner. You obviously have a point to make. Your running around with this state of mind that since your a cop you know it all. Have you ever thought that maybe your biased and your worldly view is not very broad.
    
    I lived in the STL for almost 30 years. Cops are corrupt down there. Cross to the east side it's worse.
    
    STL ghettos are nothing compared to places like Chicago and dallas. But they are similar.
    
    To sit there and say black men are not given longer sentences is a load of quack. Do you even open your ears or read? Or do you ignore anything that goes against your POV. Because it takes one second to find a few legitimate sources besides faux news to find that this is true and it's the most ignorant stance an american can have.
    
    What percentage of blacks are in Our judicial system? Now tell what % for white. Ok now what % does the black community make up of America. There's something wrong.
    
    Your badge belongs on someone's chest that has a better attitude.
    
    Equal Justice Initiative – 20 Nov 17
    
    ### Sentencing Commission Finds Black Men Receive Longer Sentences Than White Men...

@SkyzykS replied

    Well. That went bad pretty quickly. Zero to kaboom in 20 posts!

After which, @enackers added

    Sorry I just couldn't let it slide
    
    Back on track/ I saw another YouTube video last night : just popped up: where they talked about supplement companies somehow stopping legit supplements from reaching the market because of unfair business practices. There more effective and it makes us look bad is what I got from it.

To which @SkyzykS replied

    I started using a cheap ($3.79/50 tablets) in like December, January. It's by far the most effective supplement I've ever used.
    
    There's no money in it. It's 4 bucks a qwhite@example.net. You can't dress it up as ancient or exotic, and there are about a gazillion studies done on it, so the bullshit factor is zilch.

So @Basement_Gainz replied

    They might have tried that… but I know a guy with his PhD in biochemistry who keeps formulating supps for companies. He's real big into nootropics and nutrient practitioners and no-stim preworkouts. Any time the company he's working for doesn't want to move forward with something, he jumps ship and finds someone who will produce and distribute it.
    
    That industry is cut throat. If it will sell, somebody will bring it to market.
    
    If stuff works too well, it's probably a drug and the FDA will ruin the fun.

To which @Basement_Gainz replied

    Vitamin D?

After which, @SkyzykS added

    Nah. Dhea.

@dt79 replied

    “The indictment quotes some of Geissler's emails, one of which said to a Chinese chemical supplier, “Please use fake COA,” referring to a certificate of analysis.”
    
    Ahahaha

So @Basement_Gainz replied

    I'm suprized the Chinese supplier didn't deliver a document with “fake COA” in the header.

Then @SkyzykS said

    I'm surprised they didn't use straight industrial waste. Fly ash and trona or some shit!

Then @dt79 said

    The smarter ones have taken over. All the shitty products in the past were due to the remnants of socialist black market culture. Now they understand they need to create customer loyalty and good word of mouth. My hypothetical roids are overdosed lol. Capitalism rocks!

@marine77 replied

    Lol… nice meltdown. Poor little angry uninformed irrelevant hack.
    
    First off it's *you're…
    
    Second - I left the dept. some time ago. You big mad ?
    
    Third - lol at your source. What a load of shit. Has SJW garbage written all over it. Like the old idiocy of crack and cocaine not carrying equal sentencing rates. Crack is way more addictive and destructive especially to black communities. BLACK civic leaders pushed for the harsher sentences. Derp. Also, equal amounts of meth (typically a white drug) and crack carry the same sentences. You tried though.
    
    Fourth - incarceration rates accurately reflect crime reporting rates. Prior histories dictate sentencing lengths. Black suspects are reported in 90% of violent crimes by witnesses that actually cooperate or the victim. I guess black victims are of no matter to you though smh. Sorry not sorry.
    
    Fifth - why didn't a twice elected “black” president and his 2 back to back; and decidedly anti-police, Attorneys General (not to mention plenty of black judges and legislators) rectify all this alleged injustice? Pretty telling, eh ?
    
    Sixth - I don't watch Fox news or any news for that matter. That's for NPC drones like you.
    
    Seventh - the recidivism rate is astronomical. We saw violent offenders out again and again. You still mad ?
    
    Bottom line lil' angry dude… You're a clueless nobody.

After which, @flipcollar added

    marine77:
    
    > First off it's *you're…
    
    is this really worth correcting anymore? I've got multiple college degrees from a well respected private university, and I still don't always catch myself when I write things like that. Sometimes I type y instead of why. sometimes I miss apostrophes. Just seems silly to correct this in the current context. I can only assume it makes you feel intellectually superior, and that it somehow furthers your argument. It really doesn't.
    
    Especially when you say this in your next paragraph:
    
    marine77:
    
    > You big mad ?
    
    I lol'ed.

Then @marine77 said

    Btw… you do realize that blacks are actually under represented in incarceration rates regarding violent crimes due to the lack of witness and victim cooperation ? That must sting…
    
    Ask any prosecutor what their biggest issue is regarding prosecuting black criminals. The black community suffers the most, but hey…you can't score psychotic SJW points if you acknowledge reality.

So @marine77 replied

    It irritates me. Ha.
    
    Bottom line… dude is woefully uninformed and is just regurgitating thoroughly debunked bullshit.
    
    Asking “You big mad?” is a slight.

So @enackers replied

    Again you are not opening your mind. Your obviously small minded and cannot see beyond your ego.
    
    You call that a melt down amazing. Maybe the post I deleted was a litttle aggressive , but I realized that that wasn't going to get me anywhere.
    
    Your full of opinions. Not facts. Show facts and backup your opinions if your going to backup that vomitnyou call a response… Maybe you can learn something here and allow me to share with you why I think your absolutely incorrect and being biased.
    
    I am more than able to change my stance if you can present factual stats from legitimate sources that back up your opinions. Not frivolous reporting from the left right middle and up above.
    
    This is pure ignorance.
    
    Here's what I found
    
    ojp.gov
    
    ### 125618.pdf
    
    3.98 MB
    
    This screen shot says exactly what I'm trying to get you to accept. Maybe you won't accept it and it'll prove that I am not speaking to a man who is open to course correction when found to be incorrect.
    
    If you can't read here's what the screenshot says.from 1926 to 1986 imprisonments of blacks rose. While the imprisonments rate of other races dropped.300% increase since 1926…God knows where it's at today 40 Years later.
    
    342 black men are imprisoned out of every 100k while 62 white men out of 100k. Tell Me again these folks have the same opportunities we have and how they jsut make bad decisions. We owe it to our fellow American To investigate and find a solution. There are many. It starts with throwing money at inner city schools, creating a safer environment with healthy policing and providing jobs for the men and woman who resort to selling drugs and carrying guns so that they can safely return home with groceries.
    
    Until then this war on drugs is not getting us anywhere. It's making the prison system rich and at the Cost of tax payers.
    
    image1125×2436 325 KB

After which, @Basement_Gainz added

    @enackers @marine77
    
    Look I love race based flame wars as much as the next guy. But maybe get your own thread? Kinda derailing the talk of supplement company malfeasance and FDA oversight.

After which, @punnyguy added

    SkyzykS:
    
    > Dhea.
    
    What effect are you getting from DHEA?
    
    I use examine dot com as my “go to” when considering supplements. Seems to increase estrogen in men -isn't that supposed to be bad?

Then @Basement_Gainz said

    Not if he's low and having joint/bone density/ED issues.

After which, @punnyguy added

    Examine also mentions most of DHEA studies are done on menopausal women.
    
    Not to be a Biotest shill (I am a VIP lol), but the alpha male ingredients, and also forskolin (carbolin 19) seems to have “better science” behind it. Just my .02.

So @SkyzykS replied

    My understanding is that it increases it as it relates to the production of test. The ratio increases.  
    Effects- increased libido, energy, hair growth and texture, massive reduction in allergen response, generally better mood, and significant weight loss (-11 lbs.).
    
    The science is the science, but there is a hell of a lot more of it for dhea.

Then @punnyguy said

    Not my place to argue with the effects you experience personally.
    
    But: Dehydroepiandrosterone to enhance physical performance: myth and reality - PubMed
    
    …that was my last .02…

Then @SkyzykS said

    And what about the thousands of others?
    
    I know that you know this dance. We can go back and forth for days with contradictory findings.
    
    Also, do you recognize any names or writing style (hint hints) from that article?

So @SkyzykS replied

    punnyguy:
    
    > I use examine dot com as my “go to” when considering supplements.
    
    The same one that published this-
    
    > _Ganoderma lucidum_ , commonly known as the lingzi mushroom, is frequently used in [traditional Chinese medicine].Its popularity extends to Japanese and Korean medicine, and it has been making its way west.
    > 
    > _Ganoderma lucidum_ has anti-oxidative effects when supplemented. It also has a therapeutic effect on insulin resistance, reduces the risk of prostate cancer, and can help treat a variety of conditions associated with metabolic syndrome.
    
    So they say something that is basically unsellable and has been studied out the ass is no good, but that the gandoderma lucidium may prevent cancer?
    
    @dt79 Get em' buddy!!!

Then @dt79 said

    SkyzykS:
    
    > > _Ganoderma lucidum_ , commonly known as the lingzi mushroom, is frequently used in [traditional Chinese medicine].Its popularity extends to Japanese and Korean medicine, and it has been making its way west.
    >> 
    >> _Ganoderma lucidum_ has anti-oxidative effects when supplemented. It also has a therapeutic effect on insulin resistance, reduces the risk of prostate cancer, and can help treat a variety of conditions associated with metabolic syndrome.
    > 
    > So they say something that is basically unsellable and has been studied out the ass is no good, but that the gandoderma lucidium may prevent cancer?
    
    The thing is, the claims are probably true. It does have minor antioxidative effects, hence it _may_ help prevent cancer. SO DOES VITAMIN C AND COFFEE. You can easily make a similar case with ORANGES.
    
    PubMed Central (PMC)
    
    ### Metabolic syndrome and prostatic disease: potentially role of polyphenols in...
    
    Benign prostatic hyperplasia and prostate cancer are two common urological diseases of the elderly. Scientific community has always looked for a link that could explain the correlation between the two diseases and the role of chronic inflammation in...
    
    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/215S/4607494
    
    If you go to GNC, you probably won't pay $299 for a month's supply of capsules comprising of mostly vitamin C in a beautifully packaged box labeled “Antioxidants” unless you're an idiot like my wife. Yes, she did. This was in 2006. It's still unopened in a cabinet somewhere because I can't mentally convince myself to pop a vitamin C capsule that costs that kind of money. It's like some kind of modern art piece that you put on display at a museum.

So @chris_ottawa replied

    Just to add to the discussion between @enackers and @marine77, it looks like people on legal aid or with limited financial means are much more likely to be convicted, sentenced to prison, and receive harsher sentences than those who can afford a good lawyer. I don't know if there are any official statistics out there on this but I have seen it with my own eyes and other people say the same thing, it seems pretty much undeniable. A larger proportion of black people are poor so they become victims of the legal system. Just look at how Jussie Smollett got his charges dropped, he is black but he has money and can afford a good lawyer (two in fact) so despite the fact that he is obviously guilty as hell he will face no consequences.

@marine77 replied

    More whites are poor across the board, but I can't say with complete certainty that financial states do / don't influence the outcome. I'm not like your typical poster that claims to know it all regarding judicial in's and outs. Largely depends on the crime, too.
    
    As an aside, the recidivism rates for part 1 violent felonies in Stl is astronomical. You'll run guys with very lengthy histories of violent crimes yet they're still roaming the streets. In fact, blacks are under prosecuted for violent crimes due to lack of victim and witness cooperation. Ask any prosecutor. Partly why many cities have fairly low level of homicide clearance rates.

To which @chris_ottawa replied

    marine77:
    
    > I can't say with complete certainty that financial states do / don't influence the outcome
    
    If you have ever been charged or know people who have been charged you can see the outcome for yourself. Obviously the legal system is not totally fair, in any country, and if you can afford a good lawyer you have a much better chance of beating the charges than if you have an inexperienced (or incompetent) lawyer, which are the ones usually willing to work for lower rates.
    
    And then when it comes to legal aid, here in Canada the last I heard they were getting something like $80/hour (probably higher by now) and standard rates for a criminal lawyer are $300-500/hour. Some lawyers might be decent people an still put some effort into helping their legal aid clients, but there are plenty of stories of people getting totally screwed because the lawyer just didn't seem to qwhite@example.net. If business is slow they take a few extra clients for a lower rate and the outcome of the case doesn't matter because they get paid either way.
    
    I happen to know someone who is involved in a civil dispute with a person who ahs a legal aid lawyer. I don't want to get into specifics, but basically this lawyer is completely incompetent and sent this person documents that contained contradictory and damning evidence against their own client. It appears that the lawyer either did not understand the implications of what was contained in these documents or didn't read qwhite@example.net.
    
    When was the last time you heard of a rich celebrity going to jail for a crime they were falsely accused of? I can't think of a single instance. Now look at something like OJ Simpson's murder case (first thing that comes to mind here), he was obviously guilty but he had a team of high priced lawyers and beat the charges. Do you think the average guy in the ghetto in St Louis could pull that off?
    
    marine77:
    
    > As an aside, the recidivism rates for part 1 violent felonies in Stl is astronomical. You'll run guys with very lengthy histories of violent crimes yet they're still roaming the streets. In fact, blacks are under prosecuted for violent crimes due to lack of victim and witness cooperation. Ask any prosecutor. Partly why many cities have fairly low level of homicide clearance rates.
    
    What about three strikes laws, they don't have that in St Louis?
    
    I'm not trying to make excuses for black people committing crimes, all I'm saying is that there are other reasons why there are so many black people in jail and it largely comes down to the fact that the legal system is big business.

After which, @marine77 added

    Incarceration rates accurately reflect crime reporting rates. I think that's VERY important to note. Considering the vast majority of victims of black crime are other blacks I'm failing to see where the outrage is warranted because far too often the knee jerk reaction is “racist justice system, police, etc…” which is not very credible. I'm a realist and I realize there are times when innocent people; of any ethnicity, are incarcerated and it legit hurts my heart to know that.
    
    Even if the legal system is “big business,” I have no issue with criminals being in jail or prison. You'd be shocked to see just how many violent criminals with lengthy histories are still not locked up because of weak prosecutors (SJW scum masquerading as such) lack of cooperation and witness intimidation.
    
    Regarding money influencing outcomes I'd simply say wealth buys competence.

@marine77 replied

    Why is it people only seem to care about black Americans ? There are way more poor whites. There are poor Hispanics, Asians, etc…

So @chris_ottawa replied

    marine77:
    
    > Incarceration rates accurately reflect crime reporting rates. I think that's VERY important to note.
    
    Good point, I never really thought of that.
    
    marine77:
    
    > Considering the vast majority of victims of black crime are other blacks I'm failing to see where the outrage is warranted because far too often the knee jerk reaction is “racist justice system, police, etc…” which is not very credible.
    
    Another good point. If they put as much effort into stopping black on black crime as they did into BLM protests and riots then maybe things would get better.
    
    marine77:
    
    > Even if the legal system is “big business,” I have no issue with criminals being in jail or prison.
    
    It's somewhat unrelated, but what do you think of the for-profit prison they have in some parts of the US? It seems absurd that someone would be released from prison and have to pay thousands of dollars when they have no money, no job, and limited prospects. I get the idea that taxpayers shouldn't have to pay to support criminals but this doesn't seem to be helping the situation because in many cases these ex-prisoners will have no option but to commit more crimes to pay their bills. A while back I read an article on this and there was cases such as a guy was in jail and his mother died and left him her house and her money, the court took it all away from him to pay for his incarceration. If I'm not mistaken, you still have to pay even if you beat the charges, correct?
    
    marine77:
    
    > Why is it people only seem to care about black Americans ? There are way more poor whites.
    
    Are there really?  
    If you want my thoughts on that, I would say it probably has to do with the fact that black people were in slavery in the US so the effects on them as a group plus the fact that they were exploited do make them victims in a sense, despite that no one alive today was a slave or slave owner. So despite the problems they have, people feel sorry for them because their ancestors got screwed over.
    
    I don't live in the US so I'm just speaking as an outside observer but I would say I partially agree with that. I sympathize with them to a certain extent, but regardless of what happened in the past there is no reason for so many of them to turn to crime and violence. On the other hand, with stuff like BLM I can see why a lot of white Americans are getting fed up with black people, whether it be right or wrong, because BLM is turning a legitimate complaint (police brutality) into a white vs. black situation and on top of that they regularly attack innocent white bystanders at their protests and riots. Race relations in America are pretty fucked up.
    
    marine77:
    
    > There are poor Hispanics, Asians, etc…
    
    The difference there is that they are immigrants so it's not like they were historically oppressed by white Americans. However, US foreign policy is responsible for a lot of the problems in other countries. Like El Salvador and Honduras, with the US being involved in their civil wars and causing a bunch of shit over there. Those are now two of the most violent countries in the world.

After which, @marine77 added

    Give me a few to read and respond.

So @enackers replied

    Tell me when in the last 100 years have the caucasians been segregated or did they segregate. When have the caucasians been slaved or were slavers. Black communities have been screwed since we integrated them into society as American citizens with equal rights. They were pushed into small areas like Brooklyn and los Angeles. Many inner cities. They were not allowed to buy homes and they were also unable to afford homes in suburbia. This happened recently 50-100 years ago . They had white only neighborhoods in the 60s… google is your friend.
    
    Talk Poverty
    
    ### Basic Statistics on Poverty in the United States
    
    The data below reflect the national averages for essential poverty and wellbeing statistics. For data that is specific to states and congressional districts, see our poverty by area tool. Poverty Rates 1 Overall Poverty Rate: 11.4% (37.2 million...
    
    Word play. Admit you are out of your depth. You are not educating yourself on this matter yet you comment.
    
    Don't ask me for examples. Go research yourself because this is the second comment you've made that I was able to provide evidence proving your just saying something you've heard on tv or made up in your mind after reading info form unknown sources…
    
    You can lead a horse to water…

Then @marine77 said

    Cool cherry picking bro…

To which @marine77 replied

    Btw it's *you're. We're talking crime here, genius. Not your sjw talking points.

So @Frank_C replied

    You should be a volunteer police reserve officer. Go ride a beat for awhile in a low income area. You'll see first hand why things are the way they are.
    
    I'm not making excuses for problems from the past. I'm watching first hand as promising young people with college athletic scholarships choose to stay in the 'hood and run around with their gang member friends and family. They're unemployed and involved in drive-by shootings.
    
    How is that anyone's fault but their own?
    
    And in my neck of the woods, the war on drugs is over. The law books say that if you're caught with anything other than weed then it's a felony; however, that's not the case here.
    
    A warrant that results in five pounds of weed, multiple firearms, and evidence of selling the weed can result in a personal possession charge. It's a joke.
    
    Crime enforcement is dependent upon the local district attorney. That's an elected position. Perhaps people should pay attention at election time.

Then @enackers said

    How is that cherry picking? You said it. Sorry if I'm the taking It out of context and I apologize if I'm being harsh, but you've made a few comments that sound biased / opinionated and not based on fact.
    
    I'm trying to challenge you to give me some real data to backup your comments, but you have not given me anything to change my mind. Only opinions.
    
    This is why I get after it. I am trying to keep an open mind myself and do not want to be biased myself. Even thiugh I probably am because that is the human condition.
    
    I truly believe America is great and we are given something many will not experience. Yet there are those within our ranks who are not given the same freedoms and respect I am. I'm not black nor white. I am south Asian born in this greet country. I have never really had any issues . Because I don't look at it that way. i am sure I could go on complaining how I didn't get a job or something because the guy or gal was racist, but that would be bs. I don't think that really happens as much today anyways.
    
    I do agree that minorities have never had it so good. Total Freedom to succeed.
    
    Black communities just do not haven the same opportunity you and I have and I know it's getting better, but we can not deny there is room for improvement and it starts by acknowledging the facts.
    
    Until then politics and feelings will continue to separate us and we will continue to argue and knock heads.

So @enackers replied

    I agree and especially with your final comment. If these minority communities want to make a difference they need to use their power to vote. This is where education comes in. Most think nothing will change and there vote doesn't matter.Go figure.
    
    Yes they are bringing pain upon themselves.
    
    I've spent plenty of time across the tracks and understand why you are saying that.

After which, @marine77 added

    I'll respond tomorrow in a more polite manner.

So @chris_ottawa replied

    Frank_C:
    
    > I'm not making excuses for problems from the past. I'm watching first hand as promising young people with college athletic scholarships choose to stay in the 'hood and run around with their gang member friends and family. They're unemployed and involved in drive-by shootings.
    > 
    > How is that anyone's fault but their own?
    > 
    > And in my neck of the woods, the war on drugs is over. The law books say that if you're caught with anything other than weed then it's a felony; however, that's not the case here.
    > 
    > A warrant that results in five pounds of weed, multiple firearms, and evidence of selling the weed can result in a personal possession charge. It's a joke.
    > 
    > Crime enforcement is dependent upon the local district attorney. That's an elected position. Perhaps people should pay attention at election time.
    
    The thing is that people are products of their environment, if you grow up in a dysfunctional community then there is a good chance you will become dysfunctional yourself. But what is the solution? Putting more people in jail didn't fix it, giving up on crime enforcement will be even worse. I don't know what to do, there obviously isn't an easy answer or it would have been done already.

So @RampantBadger replied

    …that is all

So @enackers replied

    Yes it's a fucked up system. The jailing system is for profit. It's not fair to make locking up people a part of your quarterly report to share holders. That is their product. How many inmates.
    
    Oh we are down? How do we get more. Lobby against legalizing marijuana. Get a new sheriff. New judge.

Then @chris_ottawa said

    That's the worst part of it. Even without private prisons, the legal system is all about profit anyway. Look how much money all the judges, lawyers, and politicians are making. I don't know about the US but here in Ontario every year they publish a list of public servants waking over $100k per year and a large percentage of them are cops. In most cases it's due to working a ton of overtime, what they actually do during that overtime is another question. Obviously we need someone to keep order, but it's a bit ridiculous to be paying that much. Crime doesn't pay nearly as much as law enforcement. Just think of how much money we could save if criminals went on strike.
    
    As for the fairness of the legal system, take a look at this recent case in Ottawa:
    
    ottawacitizen
    
    ### Ottawa constable guilty of unlawful entry, spared criminal record
    
    It was Jan. 16, 2018, and Ottawa police Const. Marcel Allen, coming up on 25 years on the job, was acting on suspicion and impulse when he burst into a…
    
    " Adjust Comment [Print](javascript:window.print()
    
    It was Jan. 16, 2018, and Ottawa police Const. Marcel Allen, coming up on 25 years on the job, was acting on suspicion and impulse when he burst into a family's east-end home to confront a teen he thought was dealing weed.
    
    Allen flashed his badge and quickly identified himself as a police officer.
    
    Only Allen wasn't there on police business but rather to confront a teen he thought was dealing marijuana to his own son. Allen had no search warrant and was armed with a large kitchen knife. He wasn't brandishing it but rather holding its handle, the blade concealed in a bag.  
    …  
    In a joint position by his defence lawyer Bruce Engel and assistant Crown attorney Janet O'Brien, Allen was sentenced to a conditional discharge in exchange for a guilty plea to unlawful entry. This means the police officer will be spared a criminal record if he doesn't break the law in the next 12 months.  
    …  
    Allen remains on the force and is no longer suspended with pay."
    
    Yes, the guy is black but I don't think that makes any difference in this case. If anyone else did that they would be serving a penitentiary sentence, previous convictions or not. A few years ago they passed some laws so that for home invasions it's a minimum of something like 3 or 5 years, this guy won't spend a single night in jail because he's a cop.
    
    EDIT: Don't ask me what that smiley face is about, I didn't put it there.

To which @enackers replied

    It's the code. You do not arrest or persecute your fellow police.
    
    It is great that we have higher standards in our countries compared to places like India or even phillipines. Over there you better be ready to bribe a cop so they can feed their family. You literally get pulled over because he wants to make money not uphold the law.
    
    I wonder what would happen if everything was perfect. Form politics to law enforcement and etc.
    
    Half of us would be lost without much to do. What would be the focus… yah it won't ever happen.

@Waittz replied

    Not what I expected when I clicked on this thread.
    
    Has anyone ever actually won a forum argument? And if so did they feel better?

So @newbatman replied

    Vatican don't like the masses on smart drugs.


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