@Frank (Frank) posted a new topic, subject "Microsoft - AGAIN! KB3086255". It read:

   This security update disables the copy protection for Civilization III, and apparently lots of other old games as well. This stops the program from running. I guess I should bow to the greater wisdom of Microsoft, and throw away all my old games that I like to drag out of the back of the closet occasionally.
    
    But, you know what, Microsoft? Take this security update, fold it until it's all sharp corners, and swallow it. I want to play my old games. So fuck off.

After which, @aldiboronti (aldiboronti) added

    I am fucking sick of Microsoft's “important” updates. A recent one screwed up my video drivers and I had to revert. I've changed my settings now to have MS ask before it foists anything on me, giving me time to check out any new updates thoroughly. It's a setting and procedure I highly recommend.

So @bump (bump) replied

    I'm pretty sure that Microsoft isn't thinking about 14 year old games written for XP that already have TWO sequels when they're issuing their Windows 7 and 8 security patches.

So @Ludovic (Ludovic) replied

    I ran into the same thing with Medieval 2: Total War. I've already bought it on steam when my old PC's dvd drive died but not on this PC so I hope I can download it and it will work, but still, I'm on bare bones DSL so it even if it works it will take a day to D/L.

To which @Projammer (Projammer) replied

    Microsoft: Pushing users to piracy one patch at a time.

So @BigT (BigT (he/him)) replied

    bump:
    
    > I'm pretty sure that Microsoft isn't thinking about 14 year old games written for XP that already have TWO sequels when they're issuing their Windows 7 and 8 security patches.
    
    No, they very much were, since the update was specifically designed to cause this to fail. It's not an accident. The protection is a huge security risk that is easy for viruses to exploit. It's basically the same idea as the so-called Sony rootkit. It embeds itself really deep in the system.
    
    Every single last one of those games has a commonly available NoCD crack that will allow them to run, and this is far safer than Microsoft's way to reenable the service. The cracks have been used for years.
    
    If the companies are still in business and care, they honestly should be pushing the cracks themselves. Not blaming Microsoft for shutting down a security hole.

@Merneith (Merneith) replied

    You can read more about Microsoft's decision to disable SecureRom & SafeDisc here -
    
    Ars Technica
    
    ### Windows 10 won't run games with SecuROM DRM, says Microsoft
    
    Final nail in the coffin for most hated and most intrusive of all DRM systems.
    
    Sorry about Civ 3, but it really is the right thing to do. Those copy protection schemes that burrowed deep into your computer guts were always a serious security risk. It's just gotten worse over time as the support for those schemes has fallen off.
    
    If you don't want to hunt for a no-cd crack, GoG has the original Alpha Centauri & Colonization available, for $5.99 each. Perhaps those might interest you?
    
    GOG.com
    
    ### GOG.com
    
    Download the best classic and new games on Windows, Mac & Linux. A vast selection of titles, DRM-free, with free goodies and 30-day money-back guarantee.
    
    Oh - I just realized, you can get Civ 3 complete from Steam for $5. That ought to work, since it would use Steam as the DRM.

After which, @jz78817 (jz78817) added

    Go try to run a 14 year old game on OS X 10.9 and see how well that fucking works for you.

So @Frank (Frank) replied

    Merneith:
    
    > Sorry about Civ 3, but it really is the right thing to do. Those copy protection schemes that burrowed deep into your computer guts were always a serious security risk. It's just gotten worse over time as the support for those schemes has fallen off.
    
    Then why wasn't my computer taken over 9000 times in the last decade? I've run the game on XP, Vista, and 7. I am currently running the game on 7. Well, I was until now. If this is such a horrible, horrible risk, am I just lucky?
    
    P.S. I don't use Steam. I do use GOG. Thanks for the ideas.

So @jz78817 (jz78817) replied

    Frank:
    
    > Then why wasn't my computer taken over 9000 times in the last decade? I've run the game on XP, Vista, and 7. I am currently running the game on 7. Well, I was until now. If this is such a horrible, horrible risk, am I just lucky?
    > 
    > P.S. I don't use Steam. I do use GOG. Thanks for the ideas.
    
    it's not just about you, you know. you're not the only person in the world.
    
    Shocker, I know.

Then @bump (bump) said

    BigT:
    
    > No, they very much were, since the update was specifically designed to cause this to fail. It's not an accident. The protection is a huge security risk that is easy for viruses to exploit. It's basically the same idea as the so-called Sony rootkit. It embeds itself really deep in the system.
    > 
    > Every single last one of those games has a commonly available NoCD crack that will allow them to run, and this is far safer than Microsoft's way to reenable the service. The cracks have been used for years.
    > 
    > If the companies are still in business and care, they honestly should be pushing the cracks themselves. Not blaming Microsoft for shutting down a security hole.
    
    I meant that Microsoft doesn't give a enough of a shit about people playing 14 year old games to somehow remedy the security risk and keep the games playable.
    
    In other words, the fact that someone can't play Civ 3 after their patch isn't even on the same continent as the list of the things they're concerned about.
    
    (we're saying the same thing).

@Nancarrow (Nancarrow) replied

    Frank:
    
    > Then why wasn't my computer taken over 9000 times in the last decade?
    
    I believe the standard and entirely correct response in this day and age is “What makes you think it wasn't?”

@Frank (Frank) replied

    Nancarrow:
    
    > I believe the standard and entirely correct response in this day and age is “What makes you think it wasn't?”
    
    Well, nothing has happened to indicate that it has. If my computer has been taken over, they're not bothering to do anything with it, or with the access to my bank account, etc. that they have, nor are they using my email addresses. So why should I care?

Then @Fear_Itself (Fear Itself) said

    Frank:
    
    > Well, nothing has happened to indicate that it has. If my computer has been taken over, they're not bothering to do anything with it, or with the access to my bank account, etc. that they have, nor are they using my email addresses. So why should I care?
    
    Because they don't give a shit about your personal data. They want to use your computer to attack other computers and websites. To that end, they want to be as unobtrusive as possible; the best malware would never alert you to its presence.

To which @VinylTurnip (Vinyl Turnip) replied

    Nancarrow:
    
    > I believe the standard and entirely correct response in this day and age is “What makes you think it wasn't?”
    
    He knows it's clean because he makes regular payments to the tech security firm that notifies him each time his computer is infected with a virus.

So @Frank (Frank) replied

    Fear_Itself:
    
    > Because they don't give a shit about your personal data. They want to use your computer to attack other computers and websites. To that end, they want to be as unobtrusive as possible; the best malware would never alert you to its presence.
    
    Well, in that case, why should I care? If I don't notice that it's there, and it has no effect on me or on my personal data, I fail to see why it's a problem.

So @Frank (Frank) replied

    VinylTurnip:
    
    > He knows it's clean because he makes regular payments to the tech security firm that notifies him each time his computer is infected with a virus.
    
    To the best of my knowledge, my computer has been infected by a virus or malware exactly zero times in the last 24 years.

After which, @Fear_Itself (Fear Itself) added

    Frank:
    
    > Well, in that case, why should I care? If I don't notice that it's there, and it has no effect on me or on my personal data, I fail to see why it's a problem.
    
    Because they are using your IP address for potentially illegal purposes. Guess whose door the FBI knocks on first when they start tracking down computers used in an attack on government websites?

@Frank (Frank) replied

    Fear_Itself:
    
    > Because they are using your IP address for potentially illegal purposes. Guess whose door the FBI knocks on first when they start tracking down computers used in an attack on government websites?
    
    We need the good old-fashioned roll-eyes smiley face back. The new one just doesn't express my sentiments.

Then @Skywatcher (Skywatcher) said

    Merneith:
    
    > Oh - I just realized, you can get Civ 3 complete from Steam for $5. That ought to work, since it would use Steam as the DRM.  
    >  http://store.steampowered.com/app/3910/
    
    I have the Steam version. Which stopped working on Win 7 as well.
    
    Good thing we have some old XP boxes.

After which, @Typo_Negative (Typo Negative) added

    Wait. Is this why my old Call of Duty disks won't play anymore? They just stopped working in the last few days. (don't play that often)

After which, @rat_avatar (rat avatar) added

    Now if you had only complained about Macrovision's SafeDisc DRM a decade ago…There is no reason that Microsoft should be the one you are bashing. This is crap that the game companies installed on your machine to pad their pockets and deny you your fair use rights.
    
    I'm no Micosoft lover but you are completely ignorant about who you should be mad at…and the fact that you don't care that your computer can be used to steal other peoples personal information, or distribute child porn really deserves it's own pitting.

After which, @Nancarrow (Nancarrow) added

    Frank:
    
    > Well, in that case, why should I care? If I don't notice that it's there, and it has no effect on me or on my personal data, I fail to see why it's a problem.
    
    Oh, Og. _You're_ the guy who throws the dozens of drink cans and plastic bags all over the woods I go for walks in on the weekends, aren't you? Well, you'd finished your beer, where else were you going to leave the can? You're the guy whose dog makes the road outside my house such a fragrant minefield.
    
    Maybe you live in Kettering, Ohio and I live in London, England, but _spiritually_ you're still That Guy.

After which, @Merneith (Merneith) added

    Skywatcher:
    
    > I have the Steam version. Which stopped working on Win 7 as well.
    > 
    > Good thing we have some old XP boxes.
    
    Stopped working recently, you mean? They're still selling Civ 3 so clearly it ought to work. Try posting about it on the Steam forums. They have a few threads of people getting help making Civ 3 work (and others for whom it works out of the box.) So it's probably a local problem.
    
    steamcommunity.com
    
    ### Sid Meier's Civilization III: Complete General Discussions 8b7c:f320:99b9:690f:4595:cd17:293a:c069 Steam Community
    
    Sid Meier's Civilization III: Complete - Sid Meier's Civilization III: Complete, the latest offering in the Sid Meier's Civilization III franchise, provides gaming fans with Sid Meier's Civilization III, the highly-addictive journey of discovery,...
    
    I don't have Civ3 on steam so I can't help directly, I'm afraid. I didn't like 3 much anyway. I liked 5 best, actually. I like the change from Stacks of Doom. But I thought 4 was very superior to 3 as well.

After which, @Frank (Frank) added

    rat_avatar:
    
    > Now if you had only complained about Macrovision's SafeDisc DRM a decade ago…There is no reason that Microsoft should be the one you are bashing. This is crap that the game companies installed on your machine to pad their pockets and deny you your fair use rights.
    
    I did complain. I wasn't a member of this board then, but when I complained to people about it, they responded, “What, you want people to be free to steal content?” Damned if I do; damned if I don't.
    
    Nancarrow:
    
    > Oh, Og. _You're_ the guy who throws the dozens of drink cans and plastic bags all over the woods I go for walks in on the weekends, aren't you? Well, you'd finished your beer, where else were you going to leave the can? You're the guy whose dog makes the road outside my house such a fragrant minefield.
    
    Wow, this is a really stupid comparison. I don't do things that makes the woods worse for me too.
    
    Look, this security issue in Windows 7 has existed since 2009. Either it is a problem, and my computer has been controlled by the Illuminati ever since, or it isn't a problem, and my safe computer practices have kept my machine clean.

@Skywatcher (Skywatcher) replied

    Merneith:
    
    > Stopped working recently, you mean? They're still selling Civ 3 so clearly it ought to work. Try posting about it on the Steam forums. They have a few threads of people getting help making Civ 3 work (and others for whom it works out of the box.) So it's probably a local problem.
    
    My problem might be related to a new Nvidia driver instead. I know that thing's responsible for killing Locomotion and RCT 1 & 2.

After which, @Bricker (Bricker) added

    Frank:
    
    > Wow, this is a really stupid comparison. I don't do things that makes the woods worse for me too.
    
    I know you don't. You throw your trash in the creek, where floats away somewhere. You're not sure just where, but it's away from you. Your view of the woods remains unsullied. Fuck the guy downstream.

To which @Frank (Frank) replied

    Bricker:
    
    > I know you don't. You throw your trash in the creek, where floats away somewhere. You're not sure just where, but it's away from you. Your view of the woods remains unsullied. Fuck the guy downstream.
    
    It's still a stupid comparison. I'm going to assume that everyone who is bitching at me in this thread has their computer protected to the maximum. So why are you worried about what happens to mine?
    
    Anyway, since my computer has been wide open for six years, the damage is done, right? Why aren't you guys bitching at Microsoft for not fixing this six years ago, before my computer got infected and I got sent to jail for trying to hack Homeland Security? Thanks a lot, guys.

So @Merneith (Merneith) replied

    Frank:
    
    > Look, this security issue in Windows 7 has existed since 2009. Either it is a problem, and my computer has been controlled by the Illuminati ever since, or it isn't a problem, and my safe computer practices have kept my machine clean.
    
      1. The security problem has gotten worse over time as SafeDisc & SecureRom on older games has become unsupported and as hackers have become more familiar with the products.
    
      2. Those security methods were designed to interface tightly with the operating systems that were current when a particular game was released. You are no longer using those operating systems. These ancient drm schemes were not designed to work properly with your current OS. It is not Microsoft's responsibility to update them. Microsoft is not responsible for maintaining ancient software that isn't used any more and that they didn't create in the first place.
    
      3. This is not about you and your machine. Microsoft didn't do this to make you, Frank, miserable. It makes no difference if your computer is zombified or not. You're personal computer hygiene is irrelevant. Everyone who uses games with these unsupported DRM schemes mark93@example.net.
    
      4. Microsoft _has_ fixed the problem. Again, it's not Microsoft's job to patch non-Microsoft software. They probably don't have the source code and it would be a copyright problem if they reverse engineered it.
    
    
    
    
    So, Microsoft did what they had to do, with the software to which they have access. They solved the problem in the simplest and most thorough way possible. It was the right choice.

@BigT (BigT (he/him)) replied

    5. And Microsoft, despite not having to, provided a way for you to override their change and still run the software. Even though you could, with a simple Google search, fix the problem yourself permanently.
    
    
    
    Just use the well-tested cracks that have existed for years.

Then @Doctor_Jackson (Doctor Jackson) said

    BigT:
    
    > Just use the well-tested cracks that have existed for years.
    
    Why you gotta bring my sister into this? :mad:


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