 cases of women who are in a bad situation and need to get out,” and YP is a “firm believer that no woman should be under any abuse at any time” then she will automatically, REGARDLESS OF HER INNOCENCE, be cursed by God if she “gets out” or refuses to “be under abuse at any time?” For the sin of another? That is way off base.
The compilation is well-done. Thanks for putting it together in this format. It’s easy to follow the discussion this way.
I noticed in my own comment mentioned in the post that I said this: “The church wants the wife to [be] the Christ who gave His life for His church.” It struck me when reading it that that’s exactly what the husband is supposed to be doing, according to God’s Word (Ephesians 5:25) yet I have never heard that as counsel to the abuser (not that it would help) or any mention of follow-up with the wife to see that it’s happening in the home that way. We all know it wouldn’t play out that way in the home, even if the abuser were so counseled (because he’s not a Christian), but I’m just making the point that it’s the counsel given to the true Christian (wife) yet reversing the roles – making the wife be what Scripture clearly states the husband is to be.
Excellent summation in one post. It makes the point quite well.
EXACTLY! I had this same thought when I read it.
“Husbands, love your wife as Christ loves the church………..”. Hasn’t every pastor logged in hours of sermons on that section of scripture? They appear to be experts on this subject. An elderly member in my family was trying to sort out the source of my marital mess. He saw me in tears and struggles, but also had weekly prayer times with my pastor-ex for a period of time. It was hard for him to imagine that the ‘prayer partner, pastor, my husband’ could possibly be the source of my struggles. In his wisdom, he finally asked my exN what he thought it meant to love me as Christ loved the church. My ex admitted (exposed himself) that he did not really know what that scripture meant. (I imagine he stated it in false humility as if it were a deep theological issue that no one has completely been able to grasp)
It was the ‘ah ha’ moment for my wise family member. He had made assumptions that this pastor (pastor has an honorable place in my lineage) was an honorable man, never dreaming he was very dishonorable and the source of my misery. In time, with wisdom, he agreed that I needed to file for divorce. His heart was broken to have come to such a conclusion. In his wisdom, he walked beside through the divorce, never questioning me, always respecting me and believing the best of me.
‘
Seeing Clearly,
The actions of your wise elderly family member, though heartbroken to have to walk through it, tell me that the Spirit of the living God is in him – or he would not have walked that path with you as he did.
When people are willing to double-check their own interpretations of Scripture based on the truth they learn – that tells me that they have the humility required to accept what Christ taught. That usually means standing up against popular views or even changing long-held views of their own (as he had – and probably many if not most of us as well).
My thinking has changed considerably in just the past six months – and I have found myself thinking of friends who have divorced over the past few years and now understanding better what they were going through. I always supported them and never discouraged what they were doing, but privately I doubted; I used to think that God must want me to stay under the thumb of oppression, and I’d tell the Lord that if that’s what He had for me, I’d accept it, but no more.
I thank the Lord now for this new revelation. It sets me free to walk more closely with Him in peace and greater understanding. It’s still hard, but it’s better than it was. I am reminded of the Proverb 17:1: “Better is a dry crust of bread where there is quietness than a house full of feasting with strife.”
Yes, Still Reforming,that verse is a good picture and reminder.
A prisoner set free knows freedom much better than one who always lived in freedom.
Seeing Clearly,
Your wise family member, reminds me of Jonathan and David in the Bible. If you remember the story, King Saul (the abuser) was out to get David (the victim), after almost being killed twice, David ran away to escape the abuse. Along comes Jonathan, a good friend to David and son to King Saul, he thought that King Saul had really “changed” and that it was safe for David to come back to the palace. Long story short, Jonathan agreed to test King Saul to see if he had really “changed” and was no longer going to be abusive. No surprise King Saul had not repented from his abusiveness and even became abusive to Jonathan (tried to kill him). Because of this though, Jonathan realized that David was not safe and needed to get away from his abuser.
Wish more people in the church were like your wise family member and like Jonathan. People willing to test the abuser to see if the are truly repentant or if they are hiding their abusiveness behind their mask of Christianity. People who want to shield the victim and help them in any way they can, even if its just being understanding.
-Ben
PS: King Saul is an example of an abuser who never changed his ways, even though he claimed to have “changed” many times.
Thank you, Ben. Such a beautiful reminder of genuine friendship, Jonathan and David.
While I have known this precious family member all of my life, I only became closely connected 10+ yrs ago; a result of illness and tragedy. I was praying for a number of yrs that God would do something to stop my pastor-Nex. God seemed silent, but now I know that people and events were developing behind the scenes. God waited until my ex exposed himself to this family member. And while church leaders were unsupportive, the medical staff recognized immediately when I was preparing for a procedure and my ex was present, that I was in an abusive situation. The nurse, when we were alone, asked me if I was in an abusive relationship? First I made light of the abuse, but she assured me that it didn’t have to be physical abuse. The thought came to me that while the church ignored and denied abuse, the medical community is proactive. For the first time, I dared to speak up and said that, yes, I was in an abusive relationship. Immediately, staff stepped in to protect me. Even the doctor came to me and assured me that he was aware of my statement. When I made a call, someone took me to safety. I felt like I was watching the movie of someone else’s life.
God was faithful. God can accomplish His desires without the church. Surely, Jesus wept for me in intercession that day. The church leaders will answer to God.
A little time passed before the divorce was actually set in motion. An hour after my ex was served divorce papers, his friend, a church leader called me on the phone. He insisted that I had no right to divorce because the only grounds for divorce was unfaithfulness and my ex did not qualify. That statement of his did not deter me. It simply made me more aware of who to avoid, namely, our church, many local churches.
I hope that YP opens his heart and, as my mother would say, gets on his knees and tells God he is sorry for his sinfulness before he climbs in bed tonight.
Ben,
I like the analogy.
Applying YP’s words to it, YP would say that God can use the separation to reconcile Saul with David. And YP would welcome Saul back into his congregation to “love him to Jesus” while allowing David to flee into the wilderness. It would be Saul who would receive YP’s attention, not David.
That’s good, being able to translate into YP’s world.
Wow! Deja Vu. Back in the day, although we were separated, my abuser took his girlfriend, (the one he was committing adultery with),to the church I had introduced him to when we first met, and it was A-OK with the pastor, who wasn’t a young pastor, but an guy who’d been a pastor for most of his life.
Though the divorce is not final my stbx is taking his live-in girlfriend to our church where he was on leadership at the time this adultery started taking place….and leadership is aware. He feels comfortable enough in this “church” that he can flaunt his adultery. It is apparent to me no one has said anything to him because my stbx would flee at any hint of being held accountable- that is his nature. As I see it the whole church is mocking our Lord by looking the other way (or openly condoning…shudder). At the very least they are not considering God to be Holy. The whole thing makes it difficult for me to want to get plugged into any church because I am finding this kind of atrocity is not uncommon. The pain of seeing this being flaunted in front of me is unbearable at times.
Valerie, I think you just pinpointed the source of the problem. By and large, it’s become more evident that