 outside god, nor arbitrary.
I have heard the argument before that non-corporal ideas such as morality and logic may in fact be inherent properties of matter. One could make that a first principle for constructing a world view, but they would need to follow it through. Is morality then an "is" or an "ought"? If it is an "is" then why do people disagree on it? If it is an "ought" how is it one? These are of course questions those who believe in a god must answer as well, so in the end you end up with competing world views and which one you think is more likely.
One note: My goal here is only consistency and showing that one can believe morality comes from God and not fall to Euthyphro. I make this explanation because I love Plato and have often thought how one could respond to him in this case. One can reject what I proposed here out of hand since there is no supporting argument for morality being part of God's character given.
Sure, I think that I understand your argument: God is communicating the "law" of morality, but it is a fundamental part of his nature, and thus he is not simply a messenger. However, if that is the case (and presuming that we're discussing the God of the Bible), I would imagine that he and I would disagree on many fundamental moral principles.
"I have heard the argument before that non-corporal ideas such as morality and logic may in fact be inherent properties of matter."
I don't actually find any reason to believe that morality "exists" except conceptually/descriptively, and the same goes for the rules of logic.
"One can reject what I proposed here out of hand since there is no supporting argument for morality being part of God's character given."
Agreed. ;)WAYNE, N.J. - Junior running back Bryant Richardson (Elizabeth, N.J.) rushed for 159 yards and a touchdown and also set the school record for career receptions Saturday as William Paterson University knocked off Plymouth State College, 30-20, in a non-conference football game before 2,118 at Wightman Field.
Sophomore wide receiver Brian Lowenstein (New Milford, N.J.) caught two TD passes for William Paterson and senior safety Lamar Askew (Columbus, N.J.) recovered a pair of Panther fumbles and picked off a pass for the Pioneers (1-1), who forced four Plymouth State turnovers.
The Panther offense, which collected 404 total yards, got a pair of touchdown receptions from senior Jay Zinis (Manchester, N.H.). The first one tied the game at 7-7 early in the second quarter, and the second, a 44-yard catch midway through the third quarter gave PSC a 20-19 lead, but the visitors could not hold on to the lead.
The Pioneers led 19-13 at halftime, as sophomore QB Cristobal Rodriguez (Fort Lee, N.J.) connected with Lowenstein on a 17-yard TD toss, sophomore LB Matt Busacca (Point Pleasant, N.J.) returned a fumble 70 yards for a score, and Richardson scampered for a career-long 77 yard scoring run with 50 seconds left in the half. Plymouth State got its points on Zinis' first score and a pair of field goals by junior Eric Calderwood (Merrimac, Mass.), including a PSC-record 51-yarder as the first-half clock expired.
PSC took the lead briefly on Zinis' second touchdown, but William Paterson regained the advantage late in the third on a 22-yard field goal by junior Graeham Watts (El Sobrante, Cal.).
With the Pioneers leading, 22-20, to start the fourth quarter, PSC was driving from deep in its own territory when Askew intercepted a pass just past midfield. Five plays later, senior QB Sean O'Connor (Hackensack, N.J.) completed a 27-yard touchdown pass to Lowenstein. A two-point conversion by O'Connor to his brother Justin O'Connor gave that Pioneers a 30-20 lead with 10:09 left.
Zinis finished with five receptions for 109 yards, and classmate Chris Holton (Bellows Falls, Vt.) made seven catches for 90 yards. Senior quarterback Matt Simpson (Auburn, Maine) completed 19-of-37 for 244 yards, two TDs and one interception. The Panther defense was led by seniors Justin Falite (Saugus, Mass.) and Tim Boothroyd (Amesbury, Mass.) and sophomores Matt Trombley (Londonderry, N.H.) and Jose Baez (Lawrence, Mass.), who each made seven tackles.
Calderwood's 51-yard field goal broke the school record of 50 yards, set by Jesse Elderkin at Brockport State on Sept. 18, 1999.--"Dear St. Anthony, I am imprisoned by walls of selfishness, prejudice, suspicion. I am enslaved by human respect and the fear of other people's opinions of me. St. Anthony, Liberator of Prisoners, tear down my prison walls. Break the chains that hold me captive. Make me free with the freedom Christ has won for me. "Rose Pruning Workshop 2005
For you do-it-yourselfers and nature lovers, it is time to plan your schedule for a beautiful rose display in the spring. The free Rose Pruning workshop that Ron Serven, of the San Marino Parks Department, has given annually in the Library's auditorium will be held on Saturday, January 22, 2005 at 9:00 AM. Ron always does a great job of explaining and demonstrating the philosophy and technique of rose pruning. Some people attend year after year as a refresher course. He is great about answering questions and readying people to go out and spend a couple of hours in the garden.
This year there will be a new twist. The session at the Library, which runs from 9:00 AM to 11:00 AM, will be followed by a hands-on pruning demonstration at Lacy Park (1485 Virginia Road) from 11:30 to 1:00 PM. Lacy Park has plenty of roses to practice on and this part of the program gives those attending the opportunity to get immediate feedback and answers to questions from Ron. He will give some instruction, but the emphasis will be on the doing. Bring your pair of pruners. Also on hand will be volunteers from the Lacy Park Rose Garden Deadheaders, a group of knowledgeable and helpful people who help the Parks Department keep up with the massive amount of rose pruning in Lacy Park. Anyone who wants to join this group is encouraged to attend and find out more about what they do. This segment will give participants more exposure to different types of rose plants, including climbing roses. Please enter at the Virginia Road entrance and sign in there.
There is no need to make a reservation for either part of the program, but call (626) 300-0777 for information on the Library segment, or (626) 304-9648 for information about the hands-on segment. Everyone is welcome to attend either or both sessions.ISSCA NATS 2007 REGISTRATION OPEN!
Come one, come all, it's SHOW TIME!
The Impala SS Club of America proudly presents the 2007 Nationals in St. Louis.
Site of such legendary events as I2K and I2K2, and also the official birth place of ISSCA, this event promises to be it's own memory making event that you don't want to miss.
Please click here to register for the 2007 ISSCA Nats, and remember that it is open to both ISSCA members and non-ISSCA members alike. All are welcome to come and see what it's all about.
There is also a link on the registration web page for people to get more information about the hotel. We have rooms booked from June 14th - 17th, 2007. Not sure yet how many rooms are being set aside.
So to sum up, it's a great deal for all but ISSCA members will get a SIGNIFICANT discount. As a matter of fact, it will be cheaper to JOIN ISSCA than to go to the event as a non-member (hint hint).
PS - new this year - spectators are free!
I presume you guys would need the dates?
Fathers Day weekend 2007, bring your dad!
June 15-17 2007 in lovely St. Louis!
No more excuses about a week long event that you can't get the week off for. We have compressed all the events into a 3 day extravaganza of excitement and non-stop activity. You can get your Impala bug cured in just 3 days of B-Body Bliss!
Kinda fitting I started this thread on the 10th anniversary of "The Day the B-Body Died!"
That SSounds like another good time out in St.Louis.
I`m sure GRAIL will put on a great show.Having been to all the Nationals this one will be another must attend event.
See you in St.Louis!
BK - I'll be bringing my son rather than my Dad. But I'm registered. My ISSCA Nats streak will stay alive!
PS - Tell your kids that I said Merry Christmas and I hope all their gifts are surprises.
Yes, Members get a big discount on registration!!! So, get your membership dues renewed if you need to, CLICK HERE TO RENEW YOUR MEMBERSHIP DUES!
Once your membership is active; You should also get yourself a login to the ISSCA website by