 Opera *at least* supported overflow:visible like it should! In version 7, Opera has changed their mind and made their browser work like IE on a bunch of CSS properties, like overflow. It is still there.
And they wonder why their browser isn't as popular as Firefox?
I mean, for a browser to be popular, it must now have the support of web developers (see Firefox). As I can see, everyone wants standards compliance. So, Opera isn't making any friends by rejecting the standards they have themselves written to work in an IE-compatible way.
Posted by: Matt | September 20, 2005 3:56 PM
Back on topic:
Downloaded Opera 8.50 - posting from it with 5 open tabs.
Seems pretty slick. Works with Gmail and google.com/ig
I'm beginning to like address-bar-below-tab-bar, atleast for now.
Still need an equivalent to adblock (and no, crappy alternatives dont count) before I can use it 10% of the time. There's no substitute to a in-browser, regular expression based instant blocker. Outside the browser tricks, or things that require you to restart are passe.
Posted by: vfwlkr | September 20, 2005 4:08 PM
mozilla is based out of california, which is a state in the united states. no matter the international effort, it is downloading american. what coldfusion said was factually correct, but it was mean spirited. i just thought id say that.
Posted by: smith | September 20, 2005 4:39 PM
These posts always degenerate in the same way, and Asa is the biggest perpetrator.
I've supported Mozilla heavily with thousands of support posts, many hours of debugging, and several bug reports, but I'm getting sick of Asa's trolling. It's unprofessional and unbecoming. I'm tired of the attitude and I'm tired of being associated with it.
For what it's worth, this does have consequences. I'm no longer recommending Firefox, not only because of the attitude, but because it's not reliable with extensions.
I have been experimenting with Opera for some time now, and I've found it to be a delight to use. Within a few minutes you can rearrange the appearance to your liking. If you can't get it exactly the way you want, you can probably get it pretty close, and you won't make a second career out of customizing, updating, and repairing it. It actually does some things nicely that Fx doesn't do at all, like wrapping text and zooming images. So try it and give it enough time to see what you can do with it. You may like it. If not, you can always get your money back.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 20, 2005 4:43 PM
Anonymous said:
>I'm no longer recommending Firefox, not only because of the attitude, but because it's not reliable with extensions.
how does asa's _supposed_ trolling affect the merits of firefox? does his blog somehow create bugs or usability problems? no. and unless ur using a nightly/alpha/beta, extensions are pretty reliable. thats one of the reasons that they have alphas and betas, so that extension authors can update their extensions so they are ready for the final release.
and for those who are bashing on asa, if u dont like it, dont read it. no one is forcing u to. u only read it because u want to, and for some reason u like it, or u wouldnt do it.
Posted by: ColdFusion650 | September 20, 2005 4:50 PM
Thousands of people contribute to Mozilla, no one person represents Mozilla, so why you feel Asa's attitude is so bad and represents you I dont know. Asa worded the title of this article badly and hopefully he realises that, but he means well and does care about Opera, Firefox, Netscape, IE, the web, and everything, just accept that.
Never has he said otherwise or been blatantly rude to, or just damn right dismissive of Opera or any product so leave the assumptions based on little more than the odd comment he too makes of Firefox, alone.
He has complimented Opera and wants it to succeed, so do we all, aswell as Firefox, but obviously a lot of people would rather see Firefox succeed as more people prefer that browser, and it goes without saying thats far truer for a Mozilla developers, workers, staff, contributors, key supporter, whatever.
So dont not use a program or not advise it for anything to do with that, if softwares good, its good. I really dont know where a lot of this stuff and accusations come from at Asa, on Linux or Opera, he applies the same critique to Firefox, and has done even recently, so whats the big deal, and all the presumptions about? Take it easy people. If were going to get funny then Opera have said and done far worse, and even claimed to have won awards that Mozilla have won, when they havent, and worse. Does anyone moan and create tensions? No, move on.
In anycase, none of it matters, people can compliment, and/or critique products as long as its constructive and not pointless banter. The original blog isnt in-constructive, pointless banter, but a lot of comments here are, and based on little more than presumptions and cynicism.
Everyone take a chill pill, let choice be, and live and let live, honestly, all this over nothing whilst Bill Gates makes actual in constructive comments about people using browsers like "80 million downloads, well everyone downloads software, but do they use it". Surprised he's not been shot in light of all this silly kafuffle.
Posted by: Kris Silver | September 20, 2005 4:59 PM
This blog is called Asa Dotzler - Firefox and more. Asa works for Mozilla. You people complaining about him insinuating that Opera is worse than Firefox is rediclous. You expect him to say one of the products his company makes is worse than a direct competetor. Why not ask Bill Gates to tell you Windows is worse than Linux? If you guys want someone to say Opera is better than Firefox, go to the Opera website. Guess what, they are both great browsers, but everyone has their personal preference. Please guys, lay off. Besides, this is Asa's PERSONAL blog about his PERSONAL views. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
[/flaming]
Posted by: A Person | September 20, 2005 5:33 PM
Opera employee's blogs are a lot more professional and don't sound condescending. While Asa always soudns very condescending over opera when it comes to an opera blog and very unprofessional looking...but hey! Who here can say they were surprised? they were all expecting it ;)
Posted by: augmentation | September 20, 2005 8:59 PM
If I were to get all heated, my response would be just as predictable as Asa's original post.
That being said, though - it is refreshing. Now that Asa's #1 complaint about Opera - the thing he used to put it down, even as it improved consistently - is gone, whatever will he do? Will he go all CS-zealot ninja on us, and start blabbing predictable Church of Open Source dogma? Or will he find some new avenue to vent, and surprise us all?
Stay tuned to find out!!
..Personally, I can't wait to see what he comes up with next!
Posted by: Nunya | September 20, 2005 11:09 PM
Damnit, I couldn't resist!
How to get Firefox to move in Opera's direction:
(Warning: Your computer will probably crash after installing this many extensions.)
MwaHaha!
Posted by: Nunya | September 20, 2005 11:33 PM
"(Warning: Your computer will probably crash after installing this many extensions.)"
Actually, it won't. I gave that a try just for the heck of it, and it wasn't far off (from the original).
Posted by: David Naylor | September 21, 2005 1:00 AM
...and not a crash in sight. (Forgot to mention that.)
Posted by: David Naylor | September 21, 2005 1:01 AM
OPERA FANBOYS, GIVE IT UP.
I think the Opera Fanboys just can't stand the fact that Asa was right and they were wrong. It's almost as though they'd have Opera go back to costing $40 rather than to have to be proven wrong. The browser world doesn't matter for these fanboys. Even Opera doesn't matter. All that matters is their own egos.
Posted by: yfan | September 21, 2005 1:24 AM
."
Well said.
"I think the Opera Fanboys just can't stand the fact that Asa was right and they were wrong."
Yes, it must be true pain.
Posted by: David Naylor | September 21, 2005 1:31 AM
@yfan, that's the point. ;-)
Posted by: minghong | September 21, 2005 1:35 AM
Anonymous wrote: "IE is not free!"
The standard disclaimer applies: IE is free*
*with purchase of MS Windows
But its not like the 'average user' noticed, since MS Windows is what they often associate as 'the computer' they bought with it preloaded.
Posted by: Limulus | September 21, 2005 2:39 AM
vfwlkr wrote: "Still need an