On Tape
We thought readers might possibly like to hear the unexpurgated audio of our interview with The Times this week, so that they could judge the tone of our “expletive-ridden condemnations” and whatnot for themselves.
Other than a few bits of minor tidying-up – such as me umming and aahing trying to remember the name of a song, or when the manager came round to ask if we wanted more drinks – this is the whole of the “official” interview.
(In conversation with Kenny Farquharson of The Times, 1 August 2019)
The “official” there is as opposed to the 15-20 minutes after the recording devices were switched off that we continued chatting for, during which I tried once more to bring up the point I make near the end about Kezia Dugdale, but the paper’s interviewer Kenny Farquharson steadfastly refused to be drawn into any sort of comment on the relative moralities of swearing a bit on Twitter versus dumping your constituents for a TV show or cheating your dead best friend’s charity out of £50,000.
(He also repeatedly deflected the question of whether the person who tells a lie or the person who reveals it is to blame for people being angry when they find out about it.)
That unrecorded quarter-hour or so had a theme which discernibly underpinned the interview proper too, in the shape of KF’s wish for a Utopian age of consensus politics in a devolved Scotland where good politicians with the best of intentions were nice to each other and worked together to pass laws everyone agreed on.
He seemed to feel that dream is mainly threatened by the divisive partisan vilery which was invented in 2011 by Wings Over Scotland, prior to which time everyone involved in politics was honourable, constructive, polite and lovely.
His view appeared to be that rather than being opposed to independence per se, he couldn’t see how such a state could be reached via a close-run and inevitably bitterly-fought referendum, whereas mine is that I don’t see a way anything remotely like it can ever be achieved until the constitutional question is resolved once and for all, either with a Yes victory or a resounding second defeat.
Particularly in the wake of Brexit, independence is simply still unfinished business, and no amount of putting your fingers in your ears and praying for a nice cosy halfway-house federalism that’s never going to happen is going to fix anything.
But anyway – if you’ve got the appetite for another bout of listening to me rambling on about stuff for ages, there it is.
Category audio, media, scottish politics
On Tape – politics-99.com
323 to “On Tape”
Pishin wi rain,
might as well put the kettle on and take a listen.
Stuart I enjoy listening to you ramble. In fact your WORTS rambling is better than the BEST speeches of Lan/Lib?con party leaders.
By the way, when are you and Alex Salmond going to start a regular spot on his television programme.
Pure Scottish Gold.
I think the only way anyone with a view to Independence can
Deal with UK Media is to ask them what they want to know from you
And they can publish your answers in their entirety or not at all.
Their job depends on lies and distortion just the same as those they
Serve in Westminster.
Ach, these Britnats cannae Handel baroque insults.
You *again*?
This is becoming a bit of a habit – next thing we know you’ll be launching a political party 😀
The BBC is carrying a complete lie about you forming party “to take on the SNP” on its online news site.
This is being repeated across the media and will be the next step in their effort to destroy the independence momentum.
As a matter of interst I beleive strongly in the formation of an independence coalition to contest the list seats (if we get to another Scottish GE not already independent) and have been saying so for some time.
There is considerable impatience in the SNP but very little unrest and much of such is being promoted by pretend friends who have infiltrated and who are getting support from some of our own who need a good kick up the arse.
Be very careful who we trust – no matter how high they are or have been in our army.
Well, I see little sign of the alleged “slavishly loyal and sometimes suggestible” following on here. (Has Farq actually spent more than a minute casting a glance over this way? Does he have even a clue of the difference between the Twitter version and the website?) I guess he is getting us confused with the once-members of (his beloved?) Labour Party.
Now we’re all much more aware and much less likely to fall for false promises and meaningless sweet talk about bettertogetherness.
Merkin Scot says:
Happy Guilt Free Sunday,Stu. Loved the interview.
I could add that a very good friend who has watched the British State with a sharp eye for much of his life once said to me and I paraphrase
“You have to be very highly ranked and highly regarded in an organisation/movement/party before you can do it maximum damage.”
He also insisted they “have something” on many of their servants
Anybody that imagines that that process has been suspended re the SNP and the independence campaign is seriously naive.
And anybody that imagines that Nicola Sturgeon is naive is deluded.
Journalists are always insecure in the company of men who wear collarless white shirts. 🙂
Dave McEwan Hill @ 15:57,
The BritNat media should be careful for what they wish. Their ever-predictable, lazy and pathetic rewriting of strategy as “taking on the SNP” could easily backfire. Firstly by making the SNP appear more respectable to the hesitant, and secondly by giving everyone the distinct impression that popular sentiment in favour of independence is becoming so strong that it can support more than one political party.
As we all know, there is a segment of the population for whom “nothing succeeds like success”, and if our main difficulty is only a certain lack of public self-confidence, demonstrating to all-and-sundry that an independence surge is on its way is not the best strategy for saving this damned Union.
Not sure what’s worse
Short sentences aimed at thick people or failing to put a double space between said stupid short sentences
Was something like that not attempted on Stewart Hosie?
Still, I think too much is being made of the British State bogeyman. When a moveent is on the margins, it is indeed vulnerable to “interference”. But when popular sentiment for a cause exceeds 50% and rising, only a fool would fail to recognise that the game’s up. And the spooks are not fools. I have a feeling that is what is beginning to happen to the English Establishment now. They are beginning to suffer their own divisions and demoralisation, and consequently give up on us as a lost cause.
Which is why we shouldn’t wait too long to give them any opportunity to recover. Hit them hard while they’re on the ropes, not wait till after the next interval.
The big lie I mentioned in my post at 3.57 has now been taken down
Dave McEwan Hilll
Please give me the names . I’ll no tell anyone.
Ps re the interview Farquhason leads you on Rev. Re Twitter abuse If abusive, aren’t we just gifting them a goal?
The fact you don’t give a f doesn’t mean the movement cannot be harmed.
His persistent deflection on the KD issue was/is very telling indeed. Anyone inside the bubble must be respected and lauded, irrespective of how useless they are, or how badly they behave. Anyone who threatens to burst the bubble must be destroyed at all costs – truth does not come into it – and need not even be discussed.
Otherwise, fascinating. Or boring – is someone being honest, logical and consistent all that unusual? Not in my world, but seems Kenny lacks familiarity with it. Poor chap.
Vestas says:
Well done, I think that interview was what the civil service (Yes Minister) would describe as “frank 🙂
Best get some ice for the bite marks on your tongue 😀
call me dave says:
@Dave McEwan Hill
No still up but moved to the politics page.
Sorry O/T
I was having a look at things on the papers and came across this one,something to keep when the MSN start peddling the lie that Scotland is a subsidy junkie.I know it was from 2011 but it still stands.
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public
Vestas @ 17:07,
“Full and frank” is the phrase, I seem to recall.
Isn’t it the job of a professional journalist to inquire of a position rather than defend their own? Not in Scotland, it would seem. Nice try though of Stu to turn the tables somewhat on one of them…
Tartan Tory says:
Listened to all of that and couldn’t help but feel you were being set-up. All the way through, I got an over-riding sense that the ‘journo’ was pretending to be your mate, whilst looking for ways to exploit you for his own ends. I guess that’s just what they do.
iainmore @ 17:18,
F-off, furious false flag flyer.
#Dave McEwan Hill at 5:02 pm
It’s still there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49304055
@ Robert J. Sutherland 5:26 pm :
“Frank to the point of direct” is how Bernard described it IIRC 🙂
Way off theme, apologies, but this piece on the World Bank and its very questionable habits is worth a note.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/lebanese-dam-project-stirs-earthquake-fears-environment-concerns-190807082828083.html
The World Bank, initially financed logging in Amazonia and Indonesia and the palm oil business among other nasty things. An international org. an independent Scotland ought to steer well clear of or at the very least keep out of range.
Jings!
“On GMS tomorrow at 07:30” says Stu. 🙂
I was thinking of conventional diplomacy-speak, not of the TV show.
I’m shaky on cultural references, as evidenced by my recent debacle over the “infamy” quote. =grin=
mr thms at 5.29
I see. It’s off the TV but still on the web page,
It was an episode where Humphrey had a meeting with the cabinet secretary. Bernard descibed it as :
frank to the point of direct, he even suggested Sir Humphrey might not be “sound”.
I’m pretty sure the establishment view Stu as “unsound”, its just amusing (for me anyway) to hear the “tape” of them saying so.
Interesting hearing the interviewer taking 15 minutes trying to soften you up until he felt ready to dig for dirt.
KF is a poor interviewer. He repeatedly failed to disguise his complete disinterest in most of what you had to say.
And of course he was clearly fishing for sound bites that undoubtedly will be used out of context, and sadly even some within context.
Nothing like the decent interviewing you enjoyed with Mr Salmond.
PS Rev. I for one, am not bored nor do I feel the need to turn on anyone in the Independence movement.
The folk who voted No do not make me cringe. Unkind slating of other folks’s choices do.
And I do see Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP and their supporters all working very very hard to secure Independence for Scotland. We are on our road to Independence and constantly gaining ground. Thanks to the SNP 🙂
george wood says:
Felt you gave him what he was looking for with your comments on Dugdale.
Upto that point he didn’t have much to go on to protay you in a negative way.
I think baroque is justifiable given the trying times but as for those rococo baistarts….
The matters of “morality” and “taste” are central to the political process and significant obstacles to achieving rational jurisprudence and the delivery of justice (see “Your Majesty” v Dugdale). I just wish Scotland’s middle-class would get over their priggishness and grow a pair, though I think that is beginning to happen. Much to the chagrin of BritNat hacks.
I’ve already pointed to the psychology of the class dynamics of political engagement, so here’s a bit of International Relations Theory on the subject.
I hope Dugdale is taking notes.
It takes all types: social psychology, trust,
and the international relations paradigm in our minds
The insights of social psychology are not thoroughly integrated into international relations theory, yet social psychology has much to offer. Social psychology provides a conceptualization of a number of varieties of trust – moralistic, strategic, and generalized – and their opposites that implicitly drive the logic of major works of international relations. It also reveals the empirical presence of a number of different types of trusters who make different assumptions about the trustworthiness of others and consequently show markedly different propensities towards cooperation.
The rough correspondence between these different ‘social orientations’ and the logics of the three approaches of structural realism, neoliberal institutionalism, and constructivism suggest that individuals carry a crude paradigm in their minds. Metatheoretically, the implication for international relations theory is that scholars capture a part but not the totality of world politics, the behavior of
those who trust (or do not trust) in a particular way that matches the logic of their paradigms.
Theoretically it suggests a research agenda at multiple levels of analysis, utilizing all of the types of trust and trusters. I review the work of others that offers some preliminary evidence for its plausibility, suggest some hypotheses of my own, and address potential theoretical objections.
social psychology; trust; international relations theory; cooperation; foreign policy
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e07d/d61fcf485d795fef9e83b9b70106479655cc.pdf
iainmore says:
Up yours Yoon apologist. That ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Farquharson shouldn’t be given any oxygen at least not any that we have to share with them.
mike cassidy says:
And at 7.30 in the morning
Feel free to tell it like it is, Stu.
https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1159943931674673152
And here’s a bit of political psychology on the matter.
From Social to Political Identity: A Critical Examination of Social Identity Theory
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227514605_From_Social_to_Political_Identity_A_Critical_Examination_of_Social_Identity_Theory
Translation—–he’s a small ,cold and badly dressed man.
OK but I like him anyway!!!
Labour arse meet Labour elbow.
“Labour deputy leader Tom Watson of the Labour Party has clashed with the shadow chancellor over a second Scottish independence referendum.
Mr Watson said on Sunday night Labour would strongly oppose a second vote following remarks made by John McDonnell, who said the party would not block proposals should they be put forward by Holyrood.”
http://archive.fo/nemma
Arthur Stramash has had a preview of Stu’s interview tomorrow on GMS. No need to get up early to tune in:
“Is it not divisive to start a new party? Many would see it as undermining the SNP”
“But you are starting a new party?”
“The idea is…”
“So you don’t deny undermining the SNP?”
“I didn’t say…”
“Thank you. That was controversial blogger Stuart Campbell.”
https://twitter.com/ArthurStramash/status/1160600515463565312?s=20
Rainy day so stuck indoors and found the time to listen to the recording.
Found it particularly engaging listening. Somewhat miffed that Kenny Farquharson’s written article managed to portray who and what Stuart is about in the way he did based on the conversation I just listened to.
I guess that could just be because of his personal views and employer’s editorial agenda, or down to a couple of what I picked up as uncomfortable moments Kenny seemed to find himself in after Stuart’s words on facts and journalistic impartiality at 48min mark, and again at 1hr mark when Kdug is discussed.
David McCann says:
One thing which emerges from this conversation is the simple observation that of the two people involved, Stu comes over, by a mile, as the really clever and articulate of the two.
So much for the the much vaunted Times own Kenny Farquharson!
Quite simply,Farquharson lost every argument he put!
In the wake of the latest news on Stop and Search and increasing prison places (in a State which already locks up more people than anywhere else in Europe) I fear the worst.
if the so-called parliamentary democracy in which we are alleged to live cannot stop this madness then we in Scotland should batten down the hatches, because things are about to get dramatically worse.
Robert J Sutherland@5.29pm
Now now Mr Sutherland – hardly a good example of honest debate. If you ask others to follow certain standards I would suggest you will have more success if you take your own advice.
Or alternatively just don’t preach to others standards you cannot follow.
To avoid any doubt this is not a defence of the recipient of your ire. Just noting your inconsistency.
I have difficulty with trusting any journalist from the MSM or BBC to accurately portray any indy supporter and especially SC, they are too busy watching their backs and trying to keep their jobs at all costs by towing the publisher/party line and truth has nothing to do with it. They have their own agenda.
KF was especially rattled at the suggestion the journalists were not doing their jobs properly with research and valid linked sources and he like others is jealous of the success of Wings and the fact that it does print the truth because that is what we wingers need and expect wings to do. They know KD should never have got away with what she did, even using her position in Holyrood for her own ends but they will not take on the established order. More fool them.
For far too long politicians have been able to appease certain audiences and get away with it – think the dear JB in a town hall and then saying the opposite somewhere else and she is not alone Labour have survived on lies for a very long time.
Gordon Brown’s Big Lies:
1. “Nationalism is now driving British politics.”
Truth : it’s the survival of the English Establishment which is driving English politics.
2.” the world’s most successful multinational state” meaning the UK.
Truth: the UK is only successful for the British Establishment and the Ruling Class. The UK is a disaster for Scotland, Wales, and the Republican population of Northern Ireland.
3.”and the UK, once admired around the world for an understated but comfortably unifying Britishness that was inclusive, outward-looking, tolerant and ultimately pragmatic”.
Truth: the English Establishment is one of the most evil enterprises in the history of Western Civilisation, guilty of the most heinous crimes in its assembly of the Colonies of the so-called ‘British Empire’.
4. “As this hardline nationalism tightens its grip”
Truth: There is no hardline Nationalism in Scotland whatsoever. In England, yes.
5. “But if the UK pound, the UK customs union and the UK single market all go, this desire for hard – not soft – separatism ignores the hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk of going too.
Truth: None of this is evenly remotely true. It’s a lie because Scotland is enormously wealthy thanks to its oil, gas & renewable energy, its fisheries, agriculture, and Whisky & Gin industries – plus so much more.
6. “As the Second World War ended, George Orwell made a distinction between patriots who instinctively love their country and the opposite, a political nationalism that he defined as “power hunger tempered by self-deception”. He noted its defining features: unreality about the country’s prospects; introversion bordering on the xenophobic; and hate-filled obsessiveness that treats people solely in terms of their loyalty and utility. Orwell argued passionately that the descent into a narrow, chauvinistic nationalism could be halted only by what he called “moral effort”.
Truth: none of this exists in Scotland. In England perhaps. This is Brown doing what he’s been paid for by the English Establishment – spreading lies hoping to brainwash an already brainwashed minority of the British electorate. You can fool some of the people all of the time….
7.” In our times, this means we must rediscover the age-old virtues of empathy, solidarity across borders, reciprocity between nations and co-operation rather than conflict. These precious ideals – and a tolerant, inclusive and outward-looking Britishness –
Truth: England’s age old ‘virtues’ are treachery, invasion, oppression, genocide, suppression, xenophobia, racism, superiority, entitlement and utter contempt, plus exploitation on a base of deception through endless lying and empty promises.
Gordon Brown – serial liar and political criminal.
OT but related to yoon hacks spouting mince. re. Alex Massie on the UK’s ‘near-death experience’ of the 2014 indy ref. The man’s a moron, zombies are not living beings, so can not have near-death experiences. They’ve already died so experience death fully. They are no longer functioning beings. Much like Brexitania.
TheItalianJob says:
@manandboy at 8.01pm
Spot on regarding Brown.
Serial Unionist liar regarding Scotland and its potential. Lied during Indy2014 on numerous occasions e.g. loss of pensions to Scottish Pensioners if Scotland voted Yes.
Horrible evil little runt of a man. To think we both grew up and were educated in the same town.
Can’t stand when they keep bringing him out of the closet to talk utter drivel about his own country. Sorry no. His country isn’t Scotland. It doesn’t exist. His country is the U.K. or Great Britain or whatever he wants to call it.
Makes me zzz every time he opens his useless mouth.
Here’s one for Kenny Farquharson, Alex Massie, Gordon Brown and all the other morons, bigots and cultural chauvinist writing for the yoon press.
A THEORY OF JUSTICE
http://www.consiglio.regione.campania.it/cms/CM_PORTALE_CRC/servlet/Docs?dir=docs_biblio&file=BiblioContenuto_3641.pdf
How long will Scotland allow its future be determined by limited, prejudiced, fuckwits?
Social identity theory and self categorization theory.
https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/dspace-jspui/bitstream/2134/17547/1/SIT%20and%20SCT.pdf
That last fifteen minutes was fascinating. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
McDuff says:
I`m sorry rev I don’t understand why you gave an interview to Farquharson and an English right wing newspaper who have both consistently attacked indy and the SNP at every opportunity.
Yeah, Gordon Brown again with his Scottish Nationalism bad Welsh Nationalism bad and English Nationalism has caused all the problems but although English Nationalism is the worst and is ruining the UK let’s just stick with that because eh, erm, let me think, well eh, oh I know, History, yes that’s it history, phew! thank God, I nearly didn’t think of anything there, History (wipes beads of sweat from his face)
For the second time in our immediate recent history the British don’t know what to do about Scotland because they can’t bayonet us into submission anymore, Scotland failed to grasp the thistle in 2014 if we fail to do it this time even after the lessons of 2014 that the British Nationalists cannot be trusted on anything they say then Scotland will have sealed its fate forever and the rise of a different kind of Nationalism in Scotland will be the result
Nobody in their right mind should listen to Gordon Brown, apart from being one of the British Nationalists he says he despises, the man’s an idiot and a coward, and of all people he should know how low an opinion the English have of Scotland and the Scots, because he suffered from their ire and sarcasm, yet still like a whipped dog he begs the rest of us to cringe by our masters feet and await their bidding in the hope of recieving the pat on the head as opposed to the toe of their boot and the edge of their tongue
Gordon Brown, a man who has no respect for himself asks us to be as despicably disgusting as him and turn our cheeks and bare our backs again, well that passeth all understanding, in the words of his favourite book
@Macduff at 8.36 – my household too wondered why the Rev accepted the invitation for an interview. And for GMS tomorrow. I am sure there is a good reason and it would be interesting to hear it, Rev.
O/T but seriously important. Is it “toeing the line” or “towing the line”? I have previously thought it is the former because of sailors being inspected on board ship lining up along a line between the deck planks. But several times lately, including a letter in the National, I have seen “towing”.
SOG says:
Thank God someone’s making waves.
I recall The Times outing the two bloggers, ‘belle de jour’ and ‘nightjack’. It seemed to me that the MSM were setting out to eliminate competition, seeing their market share fall and the internet replacing them for news and interest.
Nightjack was to me a serious loss, subtitled ’24hrs to crack the case’, it was an anonymous telling of the work of detectives in solving crimes. I’ve seen nothing so interesting in the Media.
You were wise to retain your own record, I feel. I hope you can do the same with the beeb.
Is it just me or are Broon’s awakenings and resultant nappy solid spewings becoming more frequent.
I previously thought they may have been tied to the four seasons, but as the prevalence of his shite spouting escapades increased, I then believed he could be influenced by the lunar cycle in a Full Yoon Fever kinda deal.
But now I’m forced to the conclusion he is experiencing the lowlander equivalent of the Quickening which incorporates all the above elements, with a potential bonus booster of a “Labour in Scotchland” leadership change.
Ricardinho Linoleuman best watch out!
@ Sarah, in the House of Commons there are two lines on the carpet. They are such a distance apart that two men with swords cannot reach each other. MPs are required to stay behind these lines. To toe the line, perhaps?
That’s just one of the wonderful traditions of the House, still relevant today.
@ Sarah
This is a reasonable explanation, I think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
Giving Goose says:
The Rev has gone mainstream and been accepted by them because Scottish Independence is now mainstream and, because it’s seen as inevitable, the public need to be prepared.
This is the start of a conversation that the metropolitan elite are, through the MSM, required to have with England.
Every day’s a learning day.
@SOG: quite right. We should discuss these serious matters instead of spouting nonsense over the idea that Scotland should escape from being governed permanently by another country.
Arthur Thomson says:
A fascinating interview. The interviewer was literally seething with a hatred that he couldn’t disguise.
His constant references to ‘division’ were telling. In the time that British Labour controlled Scotland, any attempt to challenge the status quo was SMOTHERED and that is where they want to turn the clock back to. Since telling them to fuck off became common place, they have got angrier and angrier and they project that anger into us.
How dare you tell them what they don’t want to hear? How dare you question their morality while they – studiously – avoid questioning it?
It will never be possible to get a ‘fair’ interaction with the Brits but having the audacity to go into the lion’s den and stick a finger in their snotty nose is always worthwhile. It gets the vitally important message across that we will not back off if confronted.
Well done Stu. Faint heart never won fuck all.
11 August, 2019 at 10:04 pm
@crazycat: thank you. That wiki entry seems to answer the query. “Toe the line” it must be.
But having settled that debate so quickly we will have to go back to talking about Scotland’s rights to be a free nation. Sigh.
Once again BBC national TV news refers to British prison numbers when they mean England and Wales. No wonder yoons have no idea what us happening in Scotland as the vast majority of voters get their political views from BBC TV news programmes.
@Stu,
£50 donation to Wings if you use `antiestablishmentarianism` on radio tomorrow.
Fairliered says:
As Yessers, we cannot complain about lack of media coverage if we are not prepared to accept interviews from the likes of Kenny Fuckerson, Alex Massturbatie or the various quizmasters that infest BBC Britannia (shortbread branch). Embarrasingly, although Scotland has a wealth of talent in many areas, journalism is the one profession where we are worst in the world.
“Antidisestablishmentarianism” is longer, Scott, but the word ‘pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis”, invented in the 1930s, is even longer.
8=)
Heart of Galloway says:
On the “Voices of the Colonies ” thread I wrote: “Make no mistake, the referendum legislation will be put in the fast lane at Holyrood after the summer recess for one good reason – the referendum campaign has already started.
“The point of no return has already been passed. We will have our referendum next year. We have our mandate. Our Scottish Parliament voted 69-59 for it. And when the Brexit shit hits the fan, it will be triggered.”
Nicola Sturgeon says in today’s Sunday Mail: “So in line with the mandate given by voters in 2016, we took the issue to the Scottish Parliament, which voted by a majority to back a referendum.
“The democratic mandate is cast-iron.
“That’s why, when MSPs return to Parliament in September, they will start considering a new law which will pave the way for a new referendum to be held next year.
“…the need for independence is becoming even more pressing. It is more important than ever that people are given a choice between continuing Westmister control or becoming an independent country.
“As an independent country we can become an equal partner with our friends and neighbours oin the rest of the UK.
“It is time to give people that choice.”
Note the “will” pave the way, not “may”. That is not a commitment on which the FM will renege.
Neither would she want to – because as I said before when NS presses the button she will go “all in” for independence – and the entire resources of her party, human and material, will be committed to ensuring a “Yes” victory. Likewise, the call of “aux armes, citoyens!” will go out to the entire indy movement to secure that which we have campaigned and longed for.
I have been banging on about this for some time – likewise Ian Blackford’s deliberately repeated vow that “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will”.
So I’ll say it again. There is NO WAY the SNP leadership will walk away from holding IndyRef2 next year if agreement for a Section 30 order is sought (which it will be) and refused (which it may be, the result of the almost certain GE this autumn notwithstanding).
Equally, there is NO WAY the UKOK media and British Nationalist MPs and MSPs will get their wish and manufacture a delay until the 2021 Holyrood poll.
If, in some parallel universe, they were to achieve such an outcome, every weapon in the British State’s dark armoury would be brought to bear against the SNP administration in Edinburgh to diminish and destroy is hitherto high standing with the Scottish electorate.
There would be a solitary objective – to prevent at all costs an indy majority and kill off the threat of independence once and for all.
But Scotland and its government cannot and will not hang around to be shot to pieces at Westminster’s whim.
So we will have our referendum. The campaign has already begun. And already, with hardly a shot being fired from our side, we are winning as the enemy slashes itself to pieces.
Therefore right now all else, including the notion of some new-fangled party, is at best unwanted and at worst hands our desperate adversaries ammunition they were hitherto denied.
As countless others have wisely counselled on here: “Eyes on the prize.”
And by the way, the Sunday Mail editorial is an eyebrow-raiser – in a good way. Make of that what you will.
OT. The Home Secretary clearly does not support the principle of universal human rights. That should scare the shit out of everyone who is not a zombie. Scots are about to have our connection to the international rule-of-law, further disrupted by illiberal government in London. Enough already!
Time for some more International Relations Theory?
Exposing the Universality of Human Rights as a False Premise
In the twenty-first century, the ability to migrate to some country other than one’s own, and to enjoy in that country legal status akin to that of a citizen, is a global marker of privilege. Such freedom is accorded only to a small class of people.
For Bauman (1998, 9), international mobility is now the world’s ‘most powerful and most coveted stratifying factor’ (as cited in Castles 2005, 217). In Castles’s account (2005), there exist hierarchies of citizenship based on how much international freedom of movement a country’s passport provides and the degree to which the rights of its citizens are recognised at home and abroad.
On this basis he identifies five tiers of citizenship, with citizens of the US occupying the first tier; citizens of other highly developed countries the second; citizens of transitional and newly industrialising countries the third; and citizens of less developed countries the fourth tier. In the fifth tier, Castles includes members of failed states, stateless people and a group he refers to as ‘non-citizens’, whose residence status where they live is irregular or unlawful.
While we might quibble with the details – for example, placing citizens of the US in the top tier ignores the inability of the country’s poorer citizens to access rights in their own country and material constraints on their ability to migrate – this taxonomy makes it clear that the universal enjoyment of human rights is heavily circumscribed. It suggests rights realisation correlates strongly with privileged categories of citizenship.
Remarking that rights realisation is linked to citizenship of just a few states draws into question what the instruments of international human rights law describe as ‘beyond question’ – the universality of human rights (Vienna Declaration, para. 1). While accepting the reality of widespread rights violations, supporters of the international human rights system argue it is designed to ensure that one day all human beings will enjoy all human rights.
In the words of a former UN Special Rapporteur on Non-Citizens, ‘[t]he architecture of international human rights law is built on the premise that all persons, by virtue of their essential humanity, should enjoy all human rights’ (Weissbrodt [2003] in Larking 2016, 201). In fact, however, the architecture of international human rights law is built on the premise of sovereignty, which accords states freedom from external interference and equal standing and authority within a global society of states (Larking 2014, 144).[1]
As such, the international human rights regime assumes that individuals enjoy human rights – if they do so at all – primarily by virtue of their membership of some rights-recognising state. This suggests there are structural impediments to universalising human rights that are downplayed by many international law scholars and human rights practitioners….
https://www.e-ir.info/2018/09/02/exposing-the-universality-of-human-rights-as-a-false-premise/
Hi Fairliered at 10:20 pm.
You mentioned,
“Embarrasingly, although Scotland has a wealth of talent in many areas, journalism is the one profession where we are worst in the world.”
Wasn’t always like that. A couple of links for you:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cameron_(journalist)
Dundonians (and Glaswegians) will recognise many of the locations in this video:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9tI-ZQUNsE
Farquerson’s a fool, obviously doesn’t know the difference between a mandarin collar and grandad shirt. Probably needs help getting dressed in the morning
Now I’m an old guy with a very, very good memory and I can attest the there never has been a time in history that politics was a civilised, friendly and cosy business.
I recall Westminster election campaigns where the hustings literally were conducted in church halls, scout huts and such like and often spilled out into the streets. As a pre-teen it was great entertainment to go Speaker’s Corner at Edinburgh’s Fit o the Mound. I can assure you it was often far from friendly debate and more than once ended in punch-ups.
If Mr Farquharson thinks there was ever civilised politics with the parties being nice to each other he is as daft as the proverbial brush. Even in the 60s and 70s if you attended a political meeting of such as Willie Hamilton in the old West Fife constituency and expressed a non-Labour view you were promptly, “Escorted”, out of the meeting by several very large Labour Supporters and none too gently thrown out.
I remember attending a Willie Hamilton meeting in what was known as, “The Wee Club”, in Kelty. During the meeting Willie bragged, “If you pinned a Labour rosette on a collie dogs collar the people of West Fife would vote for it”. At which I spoke up and said, “Aye! Willie, I know – and I’m looking right at it”.
It must have taken less than 15 seconds and I was physically manhandled by a five or six of Willie’s handlers and physically thrown out escorted out of the meeting.
That’s the civilised manner that politics were conducted in the 60/70 and that was quite a way more civilised than it was in the 1940s and 50s.
What got me about it was that even after you clearly explained the difference of the blog and twitter he continued to conflate them and pretend the language and attitude was on here as well meaning you had to keep correcting him.
Well Kenny, Stu doesn’t tell me what to think or how to feel. I have a science PhD and I very, very highly value the demonstrable truth as well. Stu didn’t make me Yes, I already was. He didn’t make me get out and canvass etc, I already was before I learned about Wings. He armed me and many, many others with WBB’s and they worked. I have several anecdotes about them up to the two young coppers at the polling place I was doing duty at poring over it.
BDTT@10.21pm
A very impressive posting. My question is can you say that word in one go without stopping to take breath.
What is extreme, what is reprehensible? Some examples in no particular order.
Endorsing years of austerity knowing that the poor and those who are financially vulnerable are most at risk of suffering is extreme and reprehensible.
Funding regimes with no regard of human rights who continue to bomb and kill some of the poorest children in the world is extreme and reprehensible.
Using unacceptable language to promote racist and class- riven ideology to protect racist and class- riven systems of power and influence is extreme and reprehensible.
Dismantling state apparatus and putting state institutions up for sale whilst stating the opposite is extreme and reprehensible – it’s also called lying.
Ignoring the sovereign status of another country and denigrating its citizens and elected government is extreme and reprehensible.
Taking money from the public purse to promote an agenda of tax avoidance and avoidance of financial scrutiny is extreme and reprehensible.
Using the institutions of democracy to debase and degrade progressive democracy is extreme and reprehensible.
Persistently ignoring a country’s democratic vote is extreme and reprehensible.
The UK government’s imperialist designs on Scotland is extreme and reprehensible but also very foolish. The list of extreme and reprehensible behaviour and tactics to crush Scotland has no traction when a country has belief in itself as an outward looking internationalist country. An independent Scotland will have a strong economy, include all its citizens- Scot by birth and Scot by choice-use its national assets for the common good. The combination of WM entitlement and hubris has created multiple constitutional crises where the common solution is independence for Scotland, Wales and re-unification of Ireland. Eventually there are consequences of extreme and reprehensible beliefs and actions.
In the previous thread after reading the Times article I wrongly said Kenny Farquharson was a diddy.
I have now listened to the recording and I would like to say he is a 100% complete and total diddy. Not your normal bog standard diddy is Farquharson.
The guy can hardly string a sentence together um huh uh eh ………. He just deflected every time he couldnt answer Mr Campbell’s points.
Is this the standard of Times journalism? Pathetic skills allied with bias and propaganda. No wonder the U.K. Media is well down the list of most trusted in the world.
Hi Cubby at 10:41 pm
You typed,
I can manage the first I mentioned. “Floccinaucinihilipilification” is also a one breath gig. The 30s invention will need some practice, however, as it was a new one on me. However, pregnant pauses can be effective; they can lead to an exciting sense of anti
cipation.
stewartb says:
Gordon Brown once again, joining with Ian Murray, seeks to play to Labour’s decreasing base in Scotland by using the term ‘nationalism’ to disparage those that support an independent Scotland.
In doing so in the way they do, both reveal a sorry lack of intellectual analysis and rigour: ‘nationalism’ is not just one thing. Different forms of nationalism have been debated by the left in Europe for a century or more. It is a political concept that has multiple manifestations – some very bad; some almost inevitable so long as we have communities and nation states; some very beneficial. And in the face of global, corporate power a serious debate about the the roles of these different nationalisms is one we should have.
And some in that bastion of British socialism, the Fabian Society agree! ‘Progressive nationalism’ is a thing and it has merit!
Source: https://fabians.org.uk/theres-red-as-well-as-blue-in-the-union-flag/ (May, 2013)
“… People need hope and confidence in the country’s ability to meet its challenges. Narrow reactionary nationalism can be a ready retreat – hence UKIP’s dramatic rise. But progressive nationalism can just as readily find root in the same needs.”
“Progressive nationalism would also help Labour assert a credible positive vision of the future.”
“Tactically, Labour anchoring itself in progressive nationalism outflanks the Conservatives, playing on their UKIP divisions, while countering with a stronger identity more in tune with the majority of modern Britain. Equally it embraces from the disenchanted working class through to struggling British businesses, making common cause between classes and interests. For Labour nationalism can now be inherently unifying; whereas for Conservatives it’s now more divisive.”
Scotland’s statehood aspirations associated with progressive, civic, liberal, constitutional and democratic nationalism should be proclaimed with confidence: Brown and Murray should not get a free ride to define this concept solely in their chosen, selective terms.
Good interview butthese people will distort anything you say
Stay awayfrom them they will be no help to you
Post indywe can review their works and act accordi gly
@Heart of Galloway: “Therefore right now all else, including the notion of some new-fangled party, is at best unwanted and at worst hands our desperate adversaries ammunition they were hitherto denied. ” (my bold).
There’s a difference between talking about starting a new party, which seems to get the Rev in papers, on radio and TV next, and actually going ahead and doing it. So to consider the good or bad of it, it’d need to look at all the options:
1). start it now, which isn’t being proposed
2). start it next year, which is conditional on no Indy Ref
3). start it in 2021 which is still conditional
4). not start it at all, just talk about it
good and bad for all of these, and probaby very different opinions.
The Rev is still a Dick by the way.
Why didn’t he put that bit in the paper, then?
The UK say they’re going to make the economic case for the Union, that translates as *We’re going to threaten Scotland with poverty*
Trouble with that strategy is they’re using it on the Republic of Ireland at the moment and do you see them falling for it, that’s a big negatory, they’ve a long history of being threatened by England, the difference is the Irish remember it and pass the information on to their kids so they’ll never forget, and they never will
Unionists in Scotland are our problem because they’ve perpetuated the rewritten lies of the lovely Union’s past as a warm and wonderful experience of occupation and murder
Independence isn’t about money because small countries the world over are perfectly successful, it’s about self determination, integrity, honesty of governance by the people of our own country and not by the people of another country who say they want to pool and share everything when what they mean is pool what we have and share it with themselves because there are more of them and they outvoted us to make that so
1st class Scot or a second class Brit, pick one!
kapelmeister says:
Note to hard of thinking yoon politicians and yoon journos(i.e. most of them).
Independent Scotland won’t be nationalism, it will be national.
Independence won’t be divisive. Everyone a citizen. With every vote being equal.
Unlike unpleasantly nationalistic Britain where often votes are nullified. For instance 62% of Scotland’s voters not enough to keep Scotland in Europe. Historic outrage.
Hope ma wee late night jottings are some help in stimulating yer modest powers of ratiocination.
“Tactically, Labour anchoring itself in progressive nationalism…”
Clearly these people’s vision of “progressive nationalism” is little more than a re-vamped right on version of good old British/English Imperialism.
If it takes hold the Brit-lefties up here will add to their propensity for Scotland denying and their long held desire for self-determination for all the people of the world except the Scots.
A chant of – There ain’t no Mac in the Union Jack!
Sounds good to me.
Hi Scott, if I write ‘antiestablishmentaianism’ in this comment….can I get £25 ?
Not asking for a friend…they’re all greedy….just asking for me Lol
Hi Scot Finalyson
My previous comment was a test comment..I deliberately mispelt the word you asked Stu to say on the radio…cause if you say No I cannot have £25 for writing word …then I will not write it with correct spelling …yes I know…I am playing hard ball but there you go..my offer still sands..mean stands.
12 August, 2019 at 12:05 am
Hi Brian…re my response to Scot at 11.56pm & 11.59pm..just so you know …no way would I ever consider copying these new words for less than £100…this is getting too complicated now..I think I’ll just forget it.
Scot , just ignore my previous comments…I am out of my depth..again.
Nice one. Well get practising with saying – Pneumo…….. hell cant even write it – and I look forward to hearing you attempt it some time in the near future at the Wings stall.
Cubby @ 19:42,
Always happy to debate with anybody except those who advocate violence. Not mealy-mouthed or apologetic about that. Also have to seriously doubt the bona-fides of a newcomer who starts off in that vein, whatever “justification” is then claimed. Doesn’t win converts, whether intentionally counter-productive or merely dumbass hot-head.
Odd priorities that you’re more willing to check me on that than him, (whatever your own hinted-at reservations). Nothing more interesting to say…?
Hi Cubby at 12.13am.
I will practice for the WOS stall at Aberdeen next Saturday.
Robert J Sutherland@12.15am
Sorry I don’t comment on a post that I haven’t read. I assume it has been removed.
“Nothing more interesting to say” – well I am pleased that you replied in a civil fashion.
Legerwood says:
Heart of Galloway @ 10.22 PM
I agree with what you say in your post but would like to pick up on one thing you said: “”…and the entire resources of her party, human and material, will be committed to ensuring a “Yes” victory.””
If by “material” you mean money then the SNP does not have a great deal of that particularly if, as seems increasingly likely, they have to fight a GE in the next few months.
I looked at the financial data on the Electoral Commission’s website yesterday and the SNP has had little if anything by way of donations from individuals in the past year and its annual accounts showed a surplus income over expenditure of around £600,000.
They have lost some of their bigger donors such as the Weirs and do not seem to have any significant amounts coming from any other individuals.
Membership fees may be their main source and given the way people are stirred up to the point of threatening to cancel, or actually cancelling, their membership that may be a diminishing resource just when it is most needed.
BDTT@12.17am
Sorry won’t make Aberdeen – family birthday party. Planning on going to Perth so if you are there it gives you more practice time.
Unionist Media BDSM Club says:
No way Kenny Farquharson isn’t reading this thread.
You left your weeping bucket beside the BDSM Clubhouse radiator last week, Kenny. It melted all over the coprophagia sheet. Consider this a warning. One more time and you’re barred.
Now I did see the post at 6.30pm where he said:
“Up yours Yoon apologist”.
I totally condemn the use of the words Up Yours. Happy now Mr Sutherland. Now care to enlighten me on why you are being called a yoon apologist?
Is that interesting enough?
Legerwood@12.35
Aye, how right you are. Time to smash the piggybank I reckon.
Tol says:
OMG! Kenny Farquharson in the segment after 01:00:00 blows my mind.
Has there ever been such a clear case of “insider” class based tone policing ever captured on tape? Kenny is all at sea under the simplest questions and as he throws out straw men, his arguments fall so fast it’s ridiculous.
Once you see this you can not un-see it. His assumptions about people’s right to communicate vs power/influence are bizarre. What did he think the enlightenment was only for the elite? In a social democracy, I thought we had the right to discuss and debate our views. These rights we have now took some of the greatest minds in history to bring into being and were hard won.
Seething Wells and Attila The Stock Broker are Different people.
Attila is still alive and still plays and writes
Seething Wells I’m afraid passed away quite some time back.
There are 129 MSPs.
Should the SNP win the Shetland Constituency Seat in the coming by-election,they would have 63 MSPs.
A former SNP MSP, who is now an independent, will presumably vote with the SNP, which would give them 64 MSPs.
What if, the Scottish Government makes a deal with the UK Government for a Section 30 order in return for the Scottish Parliament giving its consent to the UK Withdrawal Act?
I’ve read there is still disagreement between both governments on the ‘competancy’ of four of the returning devolved powers for which the EU has/had responsibility.
Presumably, the Presiding Officer holds a casting vote, which would mean the Scottish Parliament could give its consent to the EU Withdrawal Act, with just 64 votes.
Agreeing to give its consent to the Act, would prevent the Scottish Government from legislating on some shared powers for seven years.
The respondent in question – whose original rather inflammatory posting has indeed (rightfully) been “disappeared”, it seems – took umbrage to my little piece of alliteration suggesting he take himself and his turbulence henceforth. Sadly, you also chose to take (rather milder, if somewhat passive-aggressive, dare I suggest it?) exception to my earnest injunction, apparently not having – as you seem latterly to acknowledge – made yourself cognisant of the context, being more concerned it would seem with form rather than with substance. But let me reassure you, since you inquire, that the substance of his expressed discontent was entirely without merit, mere wild and unsubstantiated abuse. I hope, Sir, that clarifies the matter and fully allays any ongoing concerns. =grin=
Radio Scotland interview just now:
Seemed fair enough from Gary Robertson, none of the slitheriness Kenny Farquarson displayed.
I wonder, are the MSM hacks shifting their stance as they sense the way the wind is blowing and are looking to their own futures in the worlds newest Nordic nation, Scotland?
Contrary says:
Dear Rev,
Your interview on GMS was excellent.
You will have my vote – it would be a huge relief to have an alternative party that does not have extreme culture-destroying policies – so, in fact, please start setting in motion its formation. It will take you a while to write a manifesto.
All the best, Paula
I couldn’t sleep last night so I put on the bedside radio on Five Live, “Up all night”. I turn down the volume and it usually has me sleeping in no time. However no such luck but there were several very English accents and one in particular spoke with great conviction as if he were an authority on the subject.
The subject seemed to be about the break-up on, “The Country”, called the United Kingdom. These people got everything wrong it wasw possible to get wrong. Apparently the Westminster government of the country called the United Kingdom was sovereign and I’m sure Wingers know the rest of the things these people believed in.
A little lesson in history and others in geography and maths was required they simply didn’t have a clue yet they are at a total loss as to why the Scots, Welsh and Irish are all increasingly turning to independence.
I believe most Celts could enlighten them in no uncertain moment.
Takeourblueback says:
KF “& you gave me a story today, well done that man”
SC “Did ah?”
Labour and Tory listers, watch them attack! Can someone pull together a list of the listers who have a bigger ear of the press and I’ll show you a list of folk that will push a more vitriolic narrative against a Wings Political Party.
A list only political party has gotten me excited, the numbers work and I for one of a fair few folk cant wait to take back a little bit of control of this process!
OT Earlier on either BBC Scotland or Radio 4, before 7.30 am.
Apparently Richard Leonard ‘may be considering his position after being undermined by John McDonnel.’
Will that be new branch office leader number 8 coming up?
aitchbee says:
I do like how Kenny Farquaharson is desperate to try to characterise Wings followers as brainless drones who do whatever Wings says. The thought of Yes voters as intelligent people who have weighed up the information and come to their own conclusions appears to be utterly terrifying to the Establishment.
@ Robert Peffers.
I’m afraid I can’t bare to listen to there nonsense, I, like many others, switch off, otherwise my brain goes into overdrive.
As a keen camper, Port Ban and Cambelltown a couple of weeks back, I find the sound of rain on the tent very soothing and sleep comes in no time at all.
So soothing that my wife found an app or something that replicates the sound of rain falling on canvas, we play it every night at home. Works brilliantly.
clem fandango says:
My wife and I listened to this yesterday….you were excellent
The interview revealed more about Kenny than it did about you. Particularly hilarious to hear a corporate hack attack you for telling the truth because it’s “divisive” when he’s perfectly fine with Holyrood being packed with incompetent list nonentities because it doesn’t rock the boat. The meeja is a fucking disgrace. PR has replaced telling truth to power. Broadsheets like the Times were one revered for their fearless exposes, now it’s pop quizzes down the pub. How the mighty have fallen.
What an inarticulate lump the interviewer is – apart frm his name who is he? Aha! Yeah! Aha! ahem! Aha ! em! yeah aha, hmm,em.
Well done Stu .
Wish you’d not copied his ‘Salmond ‘ and “Sturgeon” and called them Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon.
Definitely a sanity saver!
You could have been kind and removed his’ aha’s’ as well there again he comes over as a complete arse so perhaps not.
katherine hamilton says:
Morning Rev,
Just to say, heard the interview this AM. Went well I thought. Good dig at the BBC’s misrepresentation of your idea.
Mr. Robertson sounded nervous to me.
Thanks, as always.
Rev Stu’s interview on GMS this morning:
https://soundcloud.com/pilar-fernandez-8/bbc-gms-interview-with-stuart
And, see Nana’s links here:
https://indyref2.space/category/nanas-links/
The Union loving 99% of the media have difficulty getting a negative angle on independence.
That is no surprise to me as our cause is just and has great merit.
The media response is to “shoehorn” us into opinions which they can criticise. They are despicable but I for one will never lower myself to their level.
“They go low, we go high” President Obama
Nicola is on ‘Loose Women’ 12.30
Robert Kerr says:
O/T but Nana missed this one.
Please all read it. Especially Nicola!
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/little-can-be-done-to-stop-johnson-crashing-uk-out-of-eu-1.3983067
By Prof Ronan McCrea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSL3z55cT_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HDFegpX5gI
Worth a watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o
If you haven’t seen Stephen Fry’s videos on Brexit. They are good for encouraging hesitant remainers in Scotland to Independence.
Robert Kerr@9.38am
It’s looking more and more like a crash out no deal.
Aitchbee@8.39am
The truth is that the brainless drones are the Britnats who read and listen to all the Britnat media and never check that what they are being told is true. Lazy people will always be susceptible to propaganda. Pre the internet it was a lot lot harder to get to the truth. No excuse nowadays.
Geoff Huijer says:
The Times interview sounds like you’re being interviewed by Smash Hits at the start… except from they wouldn’t have got your name wrong.
Robert J Sutherland@
Mr Sutherland ( cracking name by the way – always one of my favourites) I think I have made my point. As you are an intelligent man. I think you have always known my point was not about the content of the offensive post and not about whether your response was justified.
Don’t recognise the passive aggressive comment just making my point.
Fireproofjim says:
Wings party. Good idea.
Manifesto- one word. Independence.
Simples.
An excellent interview on GMS. My favourite comments in order:
1. Stating that BBC staff had been approached about standing for the new party. Brilliant. The BBC gestapo will be off and running trying to work out who they are.
2. Stating that the BBC had been misrepresenting the aims of the new party.
3. Stating that the SNP have been working very hard to stop Brexit ( even though it was expressed in a way that they should be concentrating more on independence).
grafter says:
Action Time ! March for Independence ….Aberdeen Saturday 17th August. Begins Albyn Place 1.30pm. Everyone invited.
Patsy Millar says:
Great interview on GMS which I heard through the Sound Cloud and not on the radio.
Gordon Brown – a truly toxic British Nationalist.
What now brown VOW.
Dies this clown believe that everyone has forgotten all his broken VOW promises.
Away back to your crypt and don’t come out again for a thousand years.
@Legerwood, 12.35am
If the GE comes before the planned Indyref, surely the best use of limited funds would be to go for independence at the GE?
Just listened to the Rev’s very good interview on GMS. Good points got across and a fair hearing. All positive stuff.
Just got round to listening to “The Tape”. Good interview with almost no expletives. That’ll disappoint the unionists and woke left i.e all the right people.
Same with GMS interview. Gary was remarkably restrained too. He will be getting his jotters if he’s not careful.
Suspect twitter has exploded today though.
Soon, the idea of a WoS regional party will be so normal everyone will be wondering why nobody thought of it before. What a difference a day makes in the media.
Caught the interview on shortbread.
Labour MSPs urge Richard Leonard to stand up to UK leadership
snippet!
Labour peer Lord Foulkes, a former MSP, yesterday admitted he had told Ms Laird to her face that he thought “almost anyone would be better than her”. 🙂
http://archive.is/wcDsX
I listened to the tape of Obrien and the Englisn woman at the end of it telling us all about Her thoughts about Scotland and how she and her family voted no in 2014 and so did 80per cent of Incomers helping to outvote the true Scots and deny them their right to independence this must not be allowed to happen in the next ref., these Incomers should not be allowed a vote because it is not their country so they have no right to decide its future that is common sense if you are not a member of a club you do not get a vote even if you attend the club let’s not leave ourselves open to Incomers deciding our fate no other country in world would allow it
*Breaking up our country*
Notice how they don’t often say *the* country (which is still wrong) or *the* Union
It’s always *our* or *our precious* which tells you everything you need to know about the people using that language
Independence for Scotland is returning our country to the normal state of everybody else’s country, we’re not breaking or dividing or digging big trenches or even building big Mexican Trump walls
All Scotland is saying is we want no further part in UK politics or systems so why the emotive language as though Scotland is doing something against the will of any people at all when clearly the majority of the people want it or they wouldn’t keep voting for the political party who’s aim is to do it
Sturgeon this, Sturgeon that, they constantly moan, but it’s not her is it, it’s us the people who ask her to do the job we voted her in to do and that’s why the opposition keep banging on about the FM to make it appear as though this is all her idea and hers alone
It’s me England, I don’t want you, we don’t want you, Scotland doesn’t want you, we hired Nicola Sturgeon to tell you that, she didn’t make us do it
So Adios, Sayonara, Auf Weidersehen, would yeez jist get tae F and dae wan, Cheerio!
Other languages are available
Gather round, everyone. The millionaire with Iraqi babies’ teeth lodged in his £4000 suit is sermonising on what’s “toxic”.
@Blair Paterson 12:09pm
That’s not quite accurate Blair, I lived in Spain and had the right to vote, I didn’t out of good manners as it was not my country and didn’t intend to be there the rest of my life but I did have the right
The difference in Scotland is English folk have been educated to understand that Scotland is a property they own therefore have the moral right to decide Scotland’s people’s future as the they are the owner custodians, and they wrote it into law so ye cannae argue or you change the law so that Scottish people can’t vote in England and Wales either
Then you have the constitutional problem of taxation without representation and where do you stop, Pakistani people, Chinese, Indian, Polish, French, German
I’m afraid just because you don’t like it Blair, rules is rules and if they were changed to the way you would like the rules, Scotland would not look like a very nice place to come to or live in because we would appear to not welcome foreigners
Then we’d be just like England only worse because we’d openly be discriminating against other nationalities and who’d want to live or even deal with a country like that
That’s one of the ways the bad people in Germany invaded their own country, surely you’re not one of those are you Blair
Blair Paterson@12.09pm
You and Callachan are like a couple of unwanted salesmen who keep returning every so often trying to sell your unwanted and nasty products.
No. A General Election is just that – general on a multiplicity of issues.
This soon to be held GE is too important and any attempt to hi-jack it for another purpose will be punished by the electorate at the ballot box and in the process breathe new life into the Unionist parties.
Beat them stupid at the GE. Gain as many seats as possible then hold the indyref when they are on the ropes.
Any attempt to conflate general with a specific issuewill not work. This also applies to the idea being punted of contesting regional seats with a single issue party.
The electorate in Scotland may not know the minutiae of who won what when or how many times since the war the outcome of the vote in Scotland has made any difference to the overall outcome in a GE but they do know the difference and significance of Westminster GE, Holyrood GE, local council elections and a referendum and vote accordingly.
@ Dr Jim @ 12.12pm
“All Scotland is saying is we want no further part in UK politics”
Spot on Dr Jim….however yon Tom Wubble U insists that we MUST remain in HIS UK where HE and HIS Labour party colleagues cannot even form a competent opposition to the Tory government or indeed agree among themselves….in fact are actively opposing and undermining their own leader.
Tom Wubble U thinks we minions up North are thick …so thick he thinks he can get away with regurgitating the same spiel that he and his comrades spewed out pre 2014 via BT campaign.
Pooling and sharing ?….really ?….Have I missed something or has Tom Wubble U ?
Co-operation between nations…really ?…Have I missed something or has Tom Wubble U ?
Then Tom Wubble U introduces the new Project Fear kid on the block…look how hard it has been to leave the EU…imagine how hard will be to leave the UK ….common player in this is of course the WM government and their unmovable red lines and inability to compromise…we wants it all we do… in both negotiations they are ably being aided by Tom Wubble U and his party as , once again, the willing hand maidens to their Tory masters.
Tom Wubble U then spouts some further nonsense and endorses the Labour leader LOL in Scotland who are running on empty in the polls in Scotland…so makes perfect sense to Tom Wubble U that Scots should listen to him..the branch manager.. a man who is trying and succeeding in taking the clown crown once worn by Jim Murphy.
So Dr Jim…we most certainly do indeed not want any further part in UK politics because if we remain we will be guaranteed to have a diminished country whose choices, quality of life and decency will be denied by the likes of Tom Wubble U and all of his Union uber alles politicians…..
bookie from hell says:
Marianne Taylor: Gordon Brown insults us all by claiming independence is an evil
By Marianne Taylor @MarianneTaylorZ
Features writer and columnist herald
OUT and about in Glasgow’s Buchanan Street on Saturday it was hard to miss the Christian chap with the megaphone next to the statue of Donald Dewar, shouting the usual stuff about sinners going to hell. I don’t doubt he believed every word. But it was all so cliched and embarrassing folk simply turned away and walked on.
As I read Gordon Brown’s latest dire warnings about the dissolution of the UK, which included an assertion that the country is “sleepwalking to oblivion”, I kept thinking of the megaphone man. After all, that’s what the former Prime Minister has turned into: a street corner preacher with a sermon nobody wants to hear.
That’s not to say Mr Brown is wrong. His prediction that a no-deal Brexit will lead to Scottish independence looks more accurate by the day, while his claim that the “comfortably unifying Britishness” of the post-war settlement has been swept away is also entirely right. It’s the underlying slur in these regular dispatches that immediately turns folk off, the insult to the intelligence of Scots, and indeed everyone else in the UK, in the way he equates the “toxic nationalism” of Boris Johnson’s no-deal crusade with Scotland’s right to choose a different future.
At first glance this knowing and very deliberate conflation of the two, that spitting of the word “nationalism”, purports to be about the sort of internationalist socialist ideals that kept the Labour vote united throughout much of the 20th century, the “commonality of workers in Glasgow, Sheffield or Cardiff” line that undoubtedly stopped some voting Yes in 2014.
Leading Labour MP Stella Creasy was at it too last week, after Jeremy Corbyn’s deputy, John McDonnell, blew Scottish Labour’s policy of unequivocal opposition to indyref2 out of the water by saying it would be for the people of Scotland to decide whether another referendum should be held. “Nationalism is the antithesis of socialism,” she pronounced haughtily on Twitter. “To prioritise passports over principles isn’t progressive. Egalitarian devolution isn’t about separation but how by working together as nations within the UK, each stronger and more successful. Labour abandons such commitment at our peril.”
Beneath the surface of this caring, sharing egalitarianism is a clear and concerted bid to make Scots feel bad and dirty about supporting self-determination. After all, independence remains an inconvenient and irritating prospect for a Labour party that has been consumed by chaos on both sides of the border.
But the severity and fluidity of recent events mean the party’s automatic refusal to countenance even the notion that independence is a legitimate position, is crumbling. And those who cling on to it are being roundly and rightly called out or, as in the case of Mr Brown, simply ignored.
Let’s me be clear. It’s perfectly acceptable for defenders of the union to say they are opposed to independence and would campaign against it in any future referendum. But to repeatedly suggest that self-determination is in itself some sort of evil, some sort of betrayal, is not only wrong, but insulting and hypocritical.
In Mr Brown and Ms Creasy’s world independence sympathisers (more than half the Scottish population if the latest polls are to be believed) are… what exactly? Selfish? Stupid? Misguided? Guilty of some sort of thought crime?
Of course, the pair are not just talking rot, but the sort of dangerous rot that – as their own predictions about the disastrous ramifications of No-deal Brexit outline – would have Scots knowingly harm their own economic, social and intellectual interests in order to keep afloat dying notions and entities that are no longer fit for purpose. For many Scots continuing to administer these self-inflicted wounds will not only seem problematic, but out and out madness. That’s why it would be perfectly sensible and legitimate to have the opportunity to choose another course.
Indeed, all this is particularly galling because over the last three years Labour has done hee-haw to defend any of the folk it purports to represent from the catastrophe of Brexit, throwing them instead to the right-wing Tory wolves who are devouring the last remnants of the union and will think nothing of consuming livelihoods and communities in the name of no-deal. As another recent poll highlighted, the Tory membership that voted for Boris Johnson as PM would happily sacrifice both the economy and the union to achieve Brexit.
Whether or not Parliament can or will stop no-deal remains unclear. But you can tell how precarious the union is by the number of Labour and Lib Dem MPs talking up the fantasy of federalism again. It would be genuinely funny if it wasn’t so very grim.
Mr McDonnell’s recent change of tune may be first and foremost about the need for SNP support for any future Labour government. But it at least recognises the fact that many of his party’s voters support not only indyref2, but a Yes vote.
Importantly, it also accepts that Scottish independence is a legitimate position, even if one does not support it. Until Mr Brown follows suit he will not only be insulting his compatriots, but screaming into the void.
revs on twitter being attacked by nihilists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_29yvYpf4w
life follows art.
Bookie from Hell @ 12.57
Ha Ha screaming into the void right enough 🙂
What these defenders of the Union need to be told is that they’re preaching to the wrong choir…
Go tell the Brexit voter’s they can’t leave the EU because Scotland won’t stand for it!!!
Scotland demands EU membership so if the British Union is so precious … Those “17 point something” Brext voter’s must forget all about it and get back in their box…
No Brexit
No Union
We Scots have been very clear….
Go tell it to the fan’s of Brexit….. We heard everything the British Nationalists had to say 5 years ago,and they’ve nothing any different to say to us now!!
Stuart Campbell is *The devil*
The MSM don’t like him, they’ve misrepresented practically every word he’s said, they say the SNP don’t like him, they go on to say the Tories Labour and particularly the Greens don’t like him (easy to see why there, a Wings party would hoover up those second list votes from the Greens)
When you’ve got that many folk supposedly not liking you it’s almost guaranteed he’ll do just fine
Fear and loathing from the MSM, a definite vote winner in Scotland
Dr Jim @ 1.21
Well, they can’t legitimately loath the Rev cause they don’t know him… It must be all fear… 🙂
But it’s not just him… The things they’re sayin about us Wing’ers are hilarious too.
Trying to match these descriptions to the Wing’ers I’ve met is the best laugh I’ve had in ages…
Little ole wine drinker me as an enemy of the state….
I can’t even!!!!!…… 🙂
I’m thinking about changing ma name to..
00 7teen 0seven ???
And warning people that I’m licenced to slap anyone who shakes of stirs ma Whisky!!
I really enjoyed that interview. Kenny trying hard to trip you up. You managed to get in Dugdale. If this ever airs that will definitely we cut! Ha,ha, well done.
“They” really must be getting very worried to give you so much publicity. Of course “they” are lying their heads off about you but must know now that the Independence movement is in good form and can see the lies a mile off.
Keep doing what you’re doing!
@ Legerwood.
‘ a general is just that – general on a multiplicity of issues ‘
That’s a fairly big assumption or should that be assertion your making regarding what people will or won’t do. I could also make the assertion that people have witnessed within the last week how ineffective and side lined the Britnat party’s in Scotland have become. There is almost nothing they can do to influence the decision making process within their respective party’s. There is little in the polls to suggest that the libdems could gather enough momentum to become the government of the Uk and just what exactly are the multiplicity of issues that you think the GE will be fought on. The next GE will be fought on a single issue no matter what is written in a party manifesto, Brexit.
@ Stu Campbell
Please read Peter A Bell’s latest blog. https://peterabell.blog
He suggests you are now getting plenty of air time to set up as some sort of figurehead of the YES movement, to be shot down later by the Evil Empire of the Union, to discredit and dishearten the YES movement.
Just always bear in mind what has happened to Craig Murray and others who have dared to tread on the toes of the Empire.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/12/british-diplomats-to-pull-out-from-eu-decision-making-meetings-within-days
A TRULY GLOBAL BRITAIN – after the breakup of the UK?
A reminder of PM JOHNSON’S fantasy world.
“The prime minister claimed… they could be better deploying their talents in preparing to pioneer new trade deals and promoting a truly global Britain”.
All part of the Downing Street Punch & Judy show, designed to distract everyone’s attention away from the plan to preserve, as the top priority, the English Establishment, which is in grave danger from the avalanche of consequences of Brexit, the greatest of which is the rise of the English Independence movement, with its insistence on leaving the EU and its ambivalence about Scotland’s forthcoming independence.
defo says:
Has Frankie Boyle been approached?
Imagine FMQ’s
I think Caroline Lucas is now going through that moment when you have an idea and then announce said idea to then ponder amidst the backlash generated via your idea that….perhaps this is a ” It sounded better in my head ” idea.
“The next GE will be fought on a single issue no matter what is written in a party manifesto, Brexit.”
Au contraire golfnut, up here the single issue will be Indy, with Brexit as mere catalyst. How could it not be?
The likely upcoming GE must be fought as de facto Indyref 2, with a manifesto commitment to a confirmatory poll.
Now’s the hour. Probably 🙂
Re my previous post at 2.35pm ..perhaps ‘experiencing that moment’ as opposed to ‘going through that moment’ duh would have been better English…or maybe just leave it be…me grammar is awful…me bad …again.. Lol
I have read Peter A Bell’s latest blog piece on Stu’s idea to establish a second pro-independence party whose target is the list vote to the Holyrood Parliament.
At present, 43 Unionist MSPs gained their seat this way, while only 5 went to the SNP, despite the votes being roughly the same.
You don’t need to be particularly bright to see that this is a serious and deliberately inserted element in the voting method introduced by Westminster, which is tailored, with typical Establishment malevolence, to ensure the SNP could not gain an overall majority.
A second Independence Party, dedicated to the list vote will inevitably reduce the number of Unionists in Holyrood on a free meal-ticket, and strengthen the Independence cause.
Any attempt to throw insufficiently considered cold water on Stu’s idea, ought not to be taken seriously.
As an aside, there will be some people out there of a very nervous disposition, who don’t ‘feel’ safe driving over the Queensferry Crossing, and who think the best thing to do is keep it closed to traffic.
@ Defo
Which was actually the kind of point I was making, my response was regarding legerwoods opinion that the GE would /should be fought on multiplicity of issues, I don’t see that at all.
The Britnat party’s in Scotland will fight this on preventing indyref, we cannot afford to allow ourselves distracted on the NHS, education etc as happened the last. Brexit is the backdrop for Scotland and Indy required because of it.
Hi peeps.
Remember this, if you have spare do$h burning a hole in your pocket.
https://www.gofundme.com/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes
I guessing Tartanpigsy will be at the Aberdeen rally on Saturday; it’s his neck of the woods.
At first I thought that the Rev was just winding up the Unionist Press.
When I looked at the Regional votes and the calculation it is an obvious and essential tool. In my view at least half the Green vote is done while holding your nose. I have always voted SNP X 2 because I do not trust Harvie and Co. They use their votes to push Party issues instead of Scottish Independence.
The Greens are not an attractive option ( I don’t disagree with many polices but that is for Post Independence)
However can we have high quality vetting of candidates. I want every vote to be in support of achieving Independence. I think a million list votes are up for grabs.
Ta golfnut. I butted in without taking the time…
It IS that obvious then?
Is anyone unclear what issue the Colonel, Little Dickie & the other guy will be full square focused on ?
Unless there are a few Damascene conversions betwixt now and then.
Given recent events, you never know.
I’d get ma TV licence back to watch that!
Honestly it’s just commonsense. The pro YES parties are outnumbered by the pro unionist parties at the moment and that needs rectified.
I’m forced to point out once again to thick Unionists in Scotland and the thick uneducated people in England that Scotland is NOT, repeat NOT part of the UK
Scotland IS the UK equally as much as England is, it’s a Union you Effing morons, you can’t have a Union with yourself, England is NOT the Union and Scotland’s just a bit of it, without Scotland there is no Effing Union you morons
Read an Effing history book why don’t you…..Jeez!
How many times do we have to inform these dolts before the rest of the population wake up and realise they’re all Effing dolts you can’t educate them because there’s nothing between their ears to educate
It’s like Father Ted talking to a whole field full of Dougalls
“Cystic fibrosis drugs rejected for use by NHS in Scotland” screeches Auntie.
Complete with pic of sick wee girl, clutching her teddy.
BAD SNP. Bad
Reading on, NHS England are refusing to pay what seems extortionate rates too.
Heroic standing up to big pharma!
The old dear is looking increasingly uncomfortable, reminiscent of pre-indyref1, after the landslide.
You can vote for WOS in the “Best News Blog” poll here:-
https://www.infinityblogawards.co/poll/best-news-blog/
Currently out in front with 59% of votes cast.
Bobp says:
Dr Jim 3.54pm. These peoples lives revolve around gogglebox, the x factor, Bgt, and strictly. They are not the sharpest tools in the box, which is how the establishment likes them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vlBu0Ln5so
Does the EU need the UK?
@Bobp 5:11pm
It’s why the only detective series they show on their tellys is Agatha Bloody Christie and Rosemary and Thyme day after day after day
everything else is too complicated for the poor souls, even Columbo and they tell you who dunnit before it starts for Jeez sake
bookie from hell @ 12:57,
A truly fine posting that. Covers it all very well.
The only thing I want to add is that we might take El Gordo a sight more seriously if he had ever come out to strenuously and justly criticise his precious Union, its government and his fellow Unionists, for casually betraying all his (and their) fine promises back in 2014.
Until he does that, he will not only be ignored, he will be despised.
Thanks for highlighting the Stephen Fry’s videos on Brexit. It perfectly highlights how the far-right gaslight Britain to empower racism in British politics. The same forces are gaslighting Scotland now, to ensure Scots do not gain access to inalienable human rights.
Britain has never been a working democracy and is fast transforming into a fascist dictatorship.
Brexit: Facts vs Fear, with Stephen Fry.
The fear and hatred amongst the Yoon parties and the Greens over Stu’s new party has reached level total astonishment on the astonishing scale
There are eyes bulging and blood vessels bursting everywhere
See if they weren’t doing anything wrong they wouldn’t be worried about it would they
They can see Independence coming at them like a tidal wave and all they can do is wave their arms and shout at it
How the UK lost the European plot.
Another relevant video, if you have not seem it already.
What is very interesting, the video explains how Cameron and Osborne et al, tried to use Project Fear (They talk about carpet bombing the electorate around 7 minutes)
Imagine, hot from the Scottish Referendum, they thought the same tactic would work with EU referendum and got their fingers burned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqT1lneQ28Q
Never forget that Scotland was blitzed and carpet bombed by Westminster.
Defo 3.55
The Scotish Medicines Consortium has been around since 2002 making these decisions
And has nothing to do with whoever is in power at Holyrood.
http://archive.is/vpU9M
The ultimate in lying, cynical politicians, the notoriously disastrous former Chancellor and PM, Gordon Brown tells Guardian readers,
“the UK, once admired around the world for an understated but comfortably unifying Britishness that was inclusive, outward-looking, tolerant and ultimately pragmatic”.
I wonder how the Tories’ voice for cheating Scotland, reconciles his description of the UK, with the torrents of lies, smears, threats and warnings that have flodded Scotland every day for the last seven years.
Legerwood @ 12:48,
A General Election is just that – general on a multiplicity of issues.
Normally you are quite correct, and added to that is the overwhelming media attention given to those (typically English-oriented) issues and the two parties which are their beneficiaries and which (heretofore at least) have dominated the scene thanks to the rotten FPTP voting fix.
However, think back to 2017: did not all 3 BritNat parties in Scotland, following the Little Corporal’s lead, almost exclusively major on “no IndyRef2”? I don’t recall that they suffered. In fact, thanks to the ever-helpful media, they managed to inflate some predictable gains – plus a few unexpected more – into some kind of “win”.
Some of us at least reckon that it was the SNPs refusal to meet that challenge head-on which cost them the lost votes that took some of the shine off the party’s considerable real win, and which despite that win, set the independence cause back by a year or so.
No-one is suggesting that the SNP doesn’t have a well-developed gamut of credible policies, backed up by proven experience in office, but this (coming) time round, which we likely can’t avoid, the emphasis surely has to be “Indyref2” full-front-stage.
Not because the party needs any more mandate, but just to offer everyone – both committed yesser and wavering other – hope that there is a meaningful and practical way out of the current mess, and very soon at that.
We can’t – and won’t – progress without having a bright light to shine at the end of this dismal tunnel.
I’m still not convinced Stu isn’t just at the old windup.
But in the spirit of the venture, may I suggest approaching
Janey (Independence And Soup)Godley
to be one of the candidates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC-a3_JLki4
Frankie Boyle to the left of me.
Janey Godley to the right.
Here I am stuck in the middle with Murdo Fraser
Here’s another for those who are still not convinced that British nationalism is an illiberal ideology. Scotland’s legal ‘experts’, please take note.
P.S. Scotland’s disability is Scotland’s lack of political agency (see Scotland’s democratic deficit and the full-English Brexit).
New Perspectives on Equality: Towards Transformative Justice through the Disability Convention?
@Dr Jim
What Labour and the Tory parties at Holyrood especially fear is that it is possible they could both lose around 1/3 of their list seats to a new Regional only Independence party.
In fact I believe it’s entirely feasible that a new Independence party with the right candidates could be become the official opposition to the SNP in Holyrood.
An important caveats being that 2021 is a good bit into the future and we have yet to settle Brexit, a likely UK election or a 2nd Indyref that the SNP plan to have in 2020.
Meantime, might as well enjoy the show as many get their collective knickers in a twist over the very thought of such impudence.
Gordon Brown is a British nationalist. He is a man of the past who is being punted by the Establishment, in order to con the less politically aware. He can not be considered a democrat if he opposes another indyref for Scotland. We have a legal mandate for such a referendum ratified by the Scottish parliament, and there is growing (majority) support for a chance to re-consider our vote in the first indyref.
@Gordon Brown
How can you be a British nationalist and support the principle of universal human rights, at the same time?
But of course, none of this will happen, as we ‘know’ the SNP will hold an indyref prior to the 2021 elections anyway.
Well I don’t think the ultra unionist STV news 6pm programme carried a story tonight that wasnt a backhanded attack on the Scottish government.
They even gave the bespectacled dolt Labour’s Paul Sweeney airtime to vent his spleen.
Did anybody see the re tweet by the Rev yesterday from Browns ex Labour General Secretary that broon is a grade A nutter. This book is dynamite , how can anybody be nothing more than a laughing stock when it becomes public knowledge that as PM he went in the huff with his private dinner party guests because some of them sat down at the dinner table without being instructed to do so by him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brynllys1/status/1160470566278709248?s=20
Fill your boots, or are you proud to be a bit of a totalitarian?
European Court of Justice and the Question of Value Choices
Fundamental human rights as an exception to the freedom of movement of goods
Part I: Value choices, regulatory autonomy and identity
a) Value choices, regulatory autonomy and identity
What do I mean by words values, value choices and even identity? By these words I would like to describe the decision of a particular society for its system of organization. Any decision, a decision for a system of social organization of any kind, is a value-based decision because it is a choice between certain values based on the characteristics and on the content of these values. For example, a choice, if it is ever to be made, between a totalitarian system and democracy is a value-based decision since it is made on the basis of the characteristics of the underlying values of both systems.
If a decision-maker in the society prefers the rights of the individuals, liberty, equality, human dignity, pluralism of interests and all the other terms which describe the values characteristic of a democratic society, it will make a value based decision for democracy. On the contrary, if it prefers collectivism, dominance of the leading class, dictatorship, terror and hegemony, it will decide for a totalitarian regime with its value characteristics.
Values are usually defined as a measure of worthiness, as a relative status of a thing, or the estimate in which it is held, according to its real or supposed worth, usefulness, or importance.6 In the context of the particular society, as presented in the upper example, values describe the principles or standards of a person or society, the personal or social judgments of what is valuable and important in life.7
The decision for a particular set of values in the society is usually made by the people, accurately by their representatives in the parliament, and enacted in the form of the constitution which is in the formal sense the supreme legal act, whereas in the substantive terms it embodies a social compact of the society to which it serves.8
The decision for a particular set of values, once enacted and given a normative force, shapes by the mandatory power of law the entire public and private sphere of the country’s social system and thus in a broader sense creates a special identity of the country. Different countries with different societies have opted for distinct fundamental values and have formed distinct systems of social organization and therefore have different identities. Weiler calls this phenomenon Fundamental Boundaries and defines it “as a metaphor for the principle of enumerated powers or limited competences which are designed to guarantee that in certain areas communities […] should be free to make their own social choices….”9
These Fundamental Boundaries are reasonable, legitimate and in principle also uncontroversial and unproblematic at least as long as the countries do not enter in a certain form of political or economic cooperation with the other countries with different identities when, sooner or later, legal and economic transactions between the countries and their citizens lead to the conflict of laws and values (i.e. identity in a broader sense) that these laws protect and are expression of. However, even absent of any political or economic integration or co-operation, which is inconceivable in a would-be globalized world of today, the doctrine of universality of human rights, modern international law and globalization demand that a certain minimum international standard of human rights protection, as a reflection of the respect for human dignity and humanity as such, has to be satisfied by every country and society.
This ius cogens of human dignity erodes the concept of inviolable self-chosen social identity of every country and shows that the societies are apparently not completely free to choose their system of values. However, the loss of the society’s freedom to choose the system of values by forming its identity in a unilateral and unhampered way is even more enhanced when the societies enter into the system of as intense co-operation as, for example, that of the European Union….
https://jeanmonnetprogram.org/archive/papers/04/040601.pdf
mike cassidy
Did the BBC spell that out in the article?
MIKE SMALL is doing a real suck-in of the cheeks, hyacinth bucket style; the latest bella article is soon to be setting records for the number of comments – typically he gets around 10-20, now its nearly 50.
All about the REV. I almost think this kind of obsession is a repressed homosexual attraction.
Alas, some of the wings regulars have been bumping up his traffic, inc. petra who is doing the scorned woman act, but maybe it was a scold too far t’other night.
It’s a bitchy little world, blogging – the fights so vicious because there’s so little at stake. If I ever start a blog, shoot me.
BTW there’s a george kerevan article floating about folks – here’s a precis
“somebodys needs tae dae sumfin”
“CAMPBELL ! – WHIT YE DAEIN?”
– getting back on point – anyone who has NOT played with the DHONDT MODEL should so so NOW – only then can you see -exactly- why this list party idea is needed.
http://www.scotlandvotes.com/holyrood
@ Blair Paterson says:12 August, 2019 at 12:09 pm:
” … let’s not leave ourselves open to Incomers deciding our fate no other country in world would allow it.
Oh” cummon! Blair, I’ll list you a few countries where the incomers allow it – The USA, Canada, New Zealand … Oh! Wail! Nearly forgot a couple or three _ Scotland, England and Ireland.
Are not the Scots immigrants from Ireland? Is not the current population of Ireland not the result of the many, “The Plantations? Is not the current population of Wales largely fo English immigration?
The most obvious, though, is the many nations populated by the English – a nation completely consisting of the Germanic tribes who were invited to south Briton after the Romans left.
In short, Blair, you are talking utter pish.
I know this is going to upset the SNP loyalist, but I honestly don’t think the SNP hierarchy have a clue about equality and human rights.
highseastim says:
Got the Douglas “red card” Ross pamphlet through my door today, the usual bollocks in it. Had great delight in putting it in the nearest post box with RTS on the front!! I wish more folk’s would do the same!!
@Liz g says: 12 August, 2019 at 1:36 pm:
” … Trying to match these descriptions to the Wing’ers I’ve met is the best laugh I’ve had in ages…
I can’t even!!!!!…… ?”
You are not wrong, Liz g, you only need to read Wings to realise that Wingers must be among the most likely to make their own minds up on just about any subject under the Sun. A flock of sheep is the last thing anyone could be convinced Wingers are. Generally speaking, or should that be writing, just about the last thing Wingers are is agreed about anything – even on the subject of Scottish independence there are grave doubts about several regular Wings, commenters and no doubt whatsoever about some of them.
Your average Winger can spot a false flag indy supporter at a 1,000 paces and that’s just from their comments.
@SNP management
Get your woke-wing sorted, please.
N.B. The World Health Organisation defines “sex” as denoting biological difference between males and females. Subsequently, the World Health Organisation acknowledges “sex” is not the same as “gender”, which is socially constructed.
WHO Gender Assessment Tool
The Gender Assessment Tool (GAT) is comprised of critical questions, as in gender analysis. The GAT helps you determine the gender-responsiveness of a policy or programme.
Important notes on the Gender Assessment Tool (GAT)
The GAT can help to rapidly assess the gender-responsiveness (gender-sensitive, -specific or -transformative) of high-level activities of a given programme. It indicates where gender-responsiveness can be improved.
The GAT is not a detailed programme analysis; this would require each question to go into further detail. For example, many may have to answer no to the question “Is the evidence generated by or informing my programme collected and reported by sex?” due to poor availability of sex-disaggregated data. However, a follow-up question could be “What is your programme doing to facilitate the generation, analysis and reporting of data by sex?”.
Remember to continue to ask questions relevant to your programme, its development and delivery when using the GAT as a guide….
https://www.who.int/gender/mainstreaming/GMH_Participant_GenderAssessmentTool.pdf
CBB @6:26
Gordon Brown will say and do whatever those who pull his strings tell him to, irrespective of his own personal opinions – whatever they might be.
Not so much Gordonzilla than Gordon the Gopher ; a glove puppet with establishment puppet masters hand up his backside controlling all.
@Clapper57 says:12 August, 2019 at 2:35 pm:
” perhaps this is a ” It sounded better in my head ” idea.”
That sounds remarkedly like the, very, very, old WWI newspaper cartoon. A man on crutches, bandages from head to toe, and with plaster casts who is saying, … “I don’t know but it seemed like a good idea at the time”
Murray the Brit at the start is now a Scot again as he loses his serve. 🙁 3-4 down set 1
Playing OK but 1st serve is p**h. 🙁
What’s not to like
https://t.co/L5m3M1UtmG
I posted this on the wrong thread, but I’d appreciate an SNP members forwarding this to the party hierarchy, as they appear determined to completely deplete popular trust in the party.
An Analysis of the Moral Content of the Principles
of Equity
https://repository.uchastings.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1963&context=hastings_law_journal
robertknight
There’s that as well. 😉
uno mas says:
ALL Wingers MUST read this.
https://whorattledyourcage.blogspot.com/2019/08/stu-who-bealing-aboot-campbell.html?zx=616fd7af61d26968
And here’s another I’d appreciate being forwarded to the science deniers in the SNP hierarchy.
Epigenetics for the social sciences: justice, embodiment, and inheritance in the postgenomic age
I’m not an anti-constructavist, btw, I appreciate where radical science fits in to our understanding of the world. However, I also understand the differences between men and women, which are fundamentally grounded in biology. Subsequently, sex-classes must remain grounded in biology, if they are to have any practical value.
Complex Constructivism:
A Theoretical Model of Complexity and Cognition
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0fe5/f8f13845db6f333921cca18a2ba1aad892fa.pdf
If there’s one thing Stu’s new political party idea might do and it’s focus the minds of the Labour party in that if they don’t start co-operating with the SNP in some meaningful manner and do it now there’s possibly another party round the corner who’ll relieve them of their list seats and do it for them so there’ll be no list seats at all for them to warm their bums on and that’ll be the end of the Labour party in Scotland completely
Over to you Johaan Lamont, get yer knife out
Lochside says:
While we are all navel gazing about how to ensure winning seats, this is happening in the real world:
‘Sweeping powers to impose curfews and alter the law under no-deal Brexit’
Oliver Wright, Policy Editor
August 12 2019, 12:01am,
FASCIST UK IS EVER NEARER!
re. the Greens. They would be my party if they weren’t a bunch of woke opportunists who support patriarchy. That is why I can’t give them my vote. So an alternative pro-indy party would certainly do for me, though I’m still concerned that it may just be a little too cunning for the poorly educated among Scotland’s electorate. The media will do all it can to twist the concept beyond all recognition. It is the nature of Scotland’s media.
uno mas @ 20:48,
Yes, there’s some telling remarks in there for those wise enough to heed them, even if to me it paints the SNP in the image of just a few of its more extreme and strident adherents. I imagine that the vast proportion of the membership isn’t anything like the “ultra-liberal” gilded youth portrayed. Maybe just a touch of misogynism in the piece too (shades of John Knox and his “monstrous regiment”?), though some of it may come from impatience with an apparent lack of visible progress.
Kerevan in The National today was also somewhat sniffy, hinting in a predictable lefty exceptionalist manner (yes, they’re in the SNP these days too) that it might lead to a “swamp” of “populist slogans” of a presumably rightist kind. As opposed to his unrevealed (and evidently unimplemented) panacea for activating “the schemes”. Strikes me that Stu in his earthy grounded way might have far more success there than George ever will!
My own feeling is that Stu is just currently shaking a few trees to see what falls out. And it is certainly being felt. Putting everyone on notice. If it concentrates a few minds back on the main goal as opposed to unproductive displacement-activity indulgences, he will have done us all a favour.
Bill Hume says:
OT…my apologies, but to get back to the “new” independence party to hoover up the list votes…..no argument from me, but what about local council elections too. After putting a 1 againt the name of the SNP candidate…..what was I left with? WTF. Libertarian? Sally for a better valley (Upper Irvine Valley in case you were wondering)….shower of ‘independents’I knew nothing about…couldn’t bring myself to vote for Lab/Tory/Libthingies….So another purely independence party would have won my vote.
Lochside @ 21:29,
Yes, a worthwhile reminder. If we wait for a year after exit and its “soft coup” with all those Henry VIII powers, we may never escape.
Bill Hume @ 21:41,
Ah, so it’s going to be the NIP now, then? And its adherents presumably “the Nippies”. Who if they’re hard-boiled but go down very well, will be…
…you guessed it! Heh, heh. =grin=
Lochside @ 9.29
Here’s the link to ……………
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweeping-powers-to-impose-curfews-and-alter-the-law-under-no-deal-brexit-llx3t3v7v
These fascists will stop at nothing to maintain control.
A ComRes poll for the Telegraph finds 54% in favour of the propagation of parliament to get brexit done by 31st October.
Scotland needs away from what is no longer only an unfair union but is now a downright dangerous one.
That should be prorogation of parliament, not propagation!
For anyone that isn`t quite sure about the calculations for gaining a regional/list MSP,
and basically the whole raison d’être for the Wings Over Scotland Party,(WOSP)
https://tinyurl.com/y4u6k6g7
Make Alba Great Again 🙂
@kapelmeister
Yes, but as an indication of how “confused” voters are, 51% in the same poll think Brexit should be halted if it threatens to break up the UK. Something not quite right there it would seem.
A ComRes poll for The Telegraph found 54% of the public agree that the prime minister “needs to deliver Brexit by any means, including suspending parliament if necessary, in order to prevent MPs from stopping it”.
The PM has refused to rule out a move to prorogue – or simply dissolve – parliament in the weeks before October 31 to stop politicians passing laws to stop Britain leaving the EU without a deal.
The poll of 2,011 British adults also, however, found 51% of respondents agree that “Brexit should be halted if problems over the Northern Ireland border threaten to split the Union”.
Will not archive.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/poll-parliament-brexit-prorogue_uk_5d51c898e4b0c63bcbebe31a
Footsoldier says:
Robert Peffers 20:01
Unfortunately with that you are completely wrong. I have been accused and I am 100% pro indy and have been for many decades and I know two others who post on Wings who are also 100% indy and have also been similarly accused.
kapelmeister @ 22:24,
Yes, and it can be made to happen simply by arranging a timely election, with Brexit (thanks to Labour’s early HoC support) being the current auto-default. Could be wrong, but I can’t see any way that situation can be challenged in court, nor the current HoC pulling the plug on it beforehand.
And here’s another I’d appreciate being forwarded to the SNP hierachy, who’s legal advisors don’t have a clue, IMHO.
Gender and feminisms: theoretical-epistemological considerations and methodological impacts
The present article analyzes how the relationship between theory and politics takes place in the Brazilian feminist field and how this articulation gains strength in academia, setting up a critical position that is characteristic as a theoretical and methodological perspective.
Among its fundamental axes, there are the theoretical-epistemological and methodological concerns, as it is understood that it is not possible to perform feminist science, except from an engaged, politically committed position. Thus, the concept of gender and its impacts on the theoretical and political fields problematizes and analyzes the methodological implications in this context of scientific research.
Such analyses enable the deduction that the feminist debate is not separate from that of the scientific field in general, concerning the statute of science and the ways of generating knowledge, as also presented in the field of Social Psychology.
Keywords: gender; feminist theories; epistemology; methodology.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102-71822013000500003
Most people in the UK are familiar with the Brexit Story, well at least the first part of it. The second part is not so well understood, but only because it has been kept under wraps. The story hangs on two things. First, Theresa May was a Remainer, who then, for three years pretended to be a committed Brexiteer. She could only have done such a thing under instructions from above. This explains her unopposed ‘elevation’ to No. 10. and the job of Prime Minister.
Second, is the declaration by the newly ‘elected’ PM, Boris Johnson, that the UK would leave the EU on October 31st, “no if’s, no but’s”.
Why would a British Prime Minister be so insistent on committing the UK to economic suicide, and other very serious self-harm besides, unless such a route had been identified as the only way to preserve the Establishment.
Part two, more details.
David Cameron was PM at the time of the EU Referendum. It was his idea, as a means of quelling anti-European disquiet in the Conservative Party. But this was a dreadful mistake. But worse, he believed that Remain would win, as did the British Establishment.
A Leave win then set the cat well and truly among the pigeons. The problem then became an almighty headache for the Ruling Class. How could the Remain voting Establishment, stay in power, and retain all their privileges, when a majority of the voters had turned against them?
Their answer was to pretend that they were actually in favour of leaving the EU.
They did this, so as to retain the political support of not only Conservative voters, but also to attract UKIP supporters, many of whom were former Tory voters. The plan was to do whatever it took to remain in power and to protect the status and position of the Ruling Class in the long term.
That remains the objective.
The current Tory Government under Mr Johnson, is dedicated to achieving that goal. He plans to leave the EU with a No Deal, because that is the only way they can think of to preserve the privileged status of the Establishment, with all its power and wealth intact.
But by doing so, the Establishment, with no choice, is revealing its true colours and showing itself to be a dictatorship.
The UK is already no longer a democracy. Truth be told, it never was.
As a consequence, the Union must and will fail. The end of the UK is close at hand. And with it, the mighty British Empire comes to its end.
Unless of course the whole content of the last three years can be reversed completely. But even if that was possible, the Establishment has revealed their hand. The cat is out of the bag. The game’s a bogey. And all the Queen’s soldiers and all the Queen’s men, can’t put it all back together again.
Here’s another to highlight how support for the proposed changes to the GRA, is not compatible with the aim of achieving independence for Scotland.
Structural Injustice, Epistemic Opacity, and the Responsibilities of the Oppressed
I Introduction
Consider statements of the kind: “Citizens of poor countries are often plagued by corruption.” “People who do not come from white middle class backgrounds tend to have less access to higher education opportunities.” “Women in philosophy are disadvantaged compared to their male colleagues.” Common to all these statements is the emphasis on how membership in particular groups renders members of those groups vulnerable to a particular form of disadvantage, one that is recursively implicated in a system of rules that persistently disempowers them. Call this form of disadvantage: structural injustice. And call the agents who are persistently subject to structural injustice: structurally oppressed agents….
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/josp.12268
Alabaman says:
Evening all,
Have not time to read all the comments, but Rev, has Edwina Currie’s interview on today’s Scottish B.B.C’s Newsdrive been brought to your attention, if not do have a listen, she (E. Currie) was not challenged by the Scottish interviewer on a number of occasions, the interview starts at about 16:50hrs, watch your blood pressure guys !!!.
That includes you Rev.
Court of Session
LORD DOHERTY
BY ORDER
Between 9.00am and 10.00am
P680/19 Pet: Joanna Cherry &c for Judicial Review
Balfour + Manson LLP and Office of the Advocate General
I would put a second vote to Wings even offer to stand as a Indi majority would be the outcome I hope it happens as waisted votes are not democratic.
I’m not trying to hijack this thread, or undermine the SNP. Their woke-wing is doing a grand job of that by denying science. Subsequently, here’s some more science I’d appreciate the party hierarchy familiarise themselves with.
When feminist standpoint epistemology and participatory research meet: towards knowledges that are more power-aware and inclusive
https://dspace.library.uu.nl/bitstream/handle/1874/338982/ThesisJorindeLuyts-5646014.pdf?sequence=2
*Wings stall info*
The Wings stall will be in attendance at the Aberdeen rally this coming Saturday (17/8).
As far as we know it just now, following the guidance put out by AUOB, we will be in amongst all the other stalls at “the far side of Castlegate nearest the Salvation Army building”.
You’ll spot us a mile away though with our awesome banners!
As you all know we aren’t shy in asking folk to roll up their sleeves – the Friends Of Wings stall is a success because everyone pitches in and makes it so.
If you’re about before the march then come and help us set up, or get in amongst it once the march is over!
Mr Ronnie Anderson will be holding court as usual, dishing out free abuse if that’s your thing 😉
There’s a group of us travelling up from Ayrshire and the all over the Central Belt so we expect to see all you NorthEasters out in force to put on a good show for us!!
If anyone wants to formally register themselves as a volunteer for Aberdeen, or any upcoming events, then leave a message for me on O/T.
See you Saturday 🙂
So many English radio programmes on Scottish Independence with so many English callers insisting that Scotland is a *part* of their country so cannot do what it democratically votes for while at the same time insisting Scotland has no right to say anything about the United Kingdom of England’s Brexit
And they do it all with no irony whatsoever with their very own big uneducated mouths
It may be that only the stupid English folk shout the loudest about their right to own Scotland but if that’s even only ten percent of their population (55 Million), that percentage is more than the entire population of Scotland (5.4 Million) and that’s what got us into the mess we’re in where 10% of another country (England) can dictate and overule the wishes of the entire electorate of Scotland
Is there something about those numbers NO voters don’t understand that no matter what you might ever want or vote for it’ll only be a coincidence that it happens only and unless English voters want it too
But if there’s something English voters want and Scotland doesn’t there’s not a chance in hell of Scotland ever not having to put up with it
Strap on a pair Scotland
masslass says:
Manandboy:
Enjoyed reading your post. The UK union is on it’s deathbed. These two countries, Scotland and England have absolutely nothing in common any more.
My…that Mike Small guy really has a beef in his hornet over Stu putting out the List party theory…and the btl is awful.
Grouse, completely agree with your comments btl on that article, hypocritical little nyaff Small just can’t let go of RISE being soundly told to get tae and he thinks with his mock earnestness that he just wants a simple answer to his questions:
Why’d Stu change his mind. Answer?: because people change their mind and…as he mention to Gary on GMS, he’s clearly been in talks enough to know that it is a potential ‘goer’.
His second question…ah can’t even be bothered to remember it.
As for Petra greetin’ once more about what an awful person he is…oh that’s it…how will people view Stu’s ‘out of context’ comments that Mike quoted in his ATL article, should Stu head up a Wings party? Answer?: They’ll be able to view them in context…as he’ll explain them and people will as adults make up their own minds!
We’ve more chance of gaining more votes with Wings than any with the Green Party. It’s that simple.
The wee blue book probably put the last 5% onto 2014…d’ye really think we cannae dae it?
Aye we can.
Jealous much Mike. Snark, smirk.
Dr Jim @ 00:28,
Ach, it’s the old “10:1 syndrome”. They love us so much they give us equal votes, knowing all the while that they can outvote us on anything they please. Afford us a little space to call our very own? Grudging, restrictive and now desperately keen to claw that back.
No wonder they think it all belongs to them. It does as long as we do nothing about it.
This. It is the duty of all oppressed people to liberate themselves. Otherwise, justice perishes.
José Medina, The Epistemology of Resistance
https://journals.openedition.org/ejpap/678
@AndrewAdonis
British nationalism has had over three centuries to sort out Scotland’s democratic deficit. There is no will to do so though. The British Commonwealth was conceived by the ‘left’, as a means of securing political hegemony over the former colonies through federalism, whilst appearing modern and democratic.
So away and fuck yourself, Scotland does not share England’s cultural acceptance of structural racism. Scotland suffers the consequences though (see the full-English Brexit).
Identity Salience, Identity Acceptance, and Policy
Particularism’s Effects on Racial Policy Attitudes
faculty.virginia.edu/apstudy/TransueUVAv2.pdf
K1 @ 12.55
Thing is I did answer his question K1 and he just repeated himself.
I said when the facts change ye change yer mind!
But nope apparently we are all supposed to be held in the same position as the last election… Otherwise its bizarre for him ?
I do hope he is not holding any no voters to that position.
There was a great explanatory post re the breakdown of the D’Hondt AMS system on the previous post by a Irish prof in America , well worth reading it begins
Sean Swan says:
Hi my name is Sean Swan and I’m Irish. I hold a doctorate in politics from the University of Ulster and currently live in the US. I teach or have taught British Politics at both Gonzaga University and Whitworth University. I mention the fact that I’m a professor of politics only to indicate that I might just know how the AMS electoral system works.
If you read the whole post it highlights the possible real benefits of Stu’s proposal
There is a real pressure building up now, as the media realise the reality of Brexit on their union, and how weak it is right now.
Some may say, broken beyond help.
52% certainly do, but really, its much more than that.
The UK union has had 312 years to transform itself from its initial underhand and aggressive takeover of Scotland and subsequent English dictatorship into a fair and decent modern democratic union. It hasn’t done so, never sees any reason to do so and never will.
The ONLY solution now is to bring this horrendous construct to an end and consign it to the history books just like the rest of the British empire.
Kangaroo says:
Strange but interesting.
Just listening to the morning radio here and Aus is angling for an FTA with the EU. Apparently Geographical Indicators are high on the agenda and second on the EU list is “Scotch Beef”.
Here, Bugman Brodie, did you go and register at cookdandbombd by the way? It’s a spook(y) echo chamber of tranny love where anyone (and I mean anyone) who isn’t into chop-cock suey bathroom-pests gets reeee’d out of town, and they had a real pop at Rev Stu for his radical views. It’s not on.
If you register there and manage to get them to see sense, I’ll totally back you up on your mission here, and I don’t even want paid.
If there was such a position in UK politics as ‘Father of Lies and Prince of Darkness’, then Gordon Brown would be my pick.
Mind you, he has lots of competition, principally from the Tory Ruling Class.
@twathater – link to Sean Swan’s explanation of how the ams voting system works and so how a new indy party could gain seats where the SNP can’t. Worth reading as you say.
Thx Sean!
https://wingsoverscotland.com/running-the-numbers/#comment-2479518
Can’t make Aberdeen march so would someone please say a big hello to Ronnie and to my hometown – thanks!
I often think of Westminster politics as fog; thick fog. But that only applies to the past, before 2010,when the Tories got into government. Over the past 9 years, the political fog in the UK has rapidly thickened to it’s present Brexit level, which is impenetrable, unfathomable and perplexing, to the point almost of complete disorientation.
I would even go so far as to say that the UK appears to have lost its compass, certainly politically, and very possibly morally as well.
But I have one caveat, which is that the British Establishment have kept the UK under its control for at least three hundred years, and it would not surprise me if that same Ruling Class is preparing some new scam through which to extend its reign of power, privilege and control.
But that will be for the English alone to resolve by themselves, with or without Wales and the 6 counties known as Northern Ireland. For Scotland has almost made up its mind to divorce its deeply abusive and exploitative Union ‘partner’ of these past 312 years.
I must admit, I had my doubts about the Rev’s notion of a pro-independence party, only contesting the “list” vote for Holyrood.
Then I read Professor Swan’s post, and the big light came on. It would definitely work.
Once the dullards in the pro-Unionist parties mainstream media waken up to this stratagem, however, you can expect all sorts of misinformation shite to be dumped on the notion.
Educating the electorate will, as always, be the main problem.
But, hopefully, we have at least begun the “how will it work” negotiations around ending the UK, before the 2021 Holyrood election.
On which subject. Just suppose we do get Indyref2 done and dusted by mid to late 2020 – less than a year out from the scheduled 2021 Holyrood vote, what happens next?
Common sense might suggest, that 2021 election is delayed, to enable Independence to happen. Then, the newly-independent Scotland goes to the polls to elect its independent parliament.
However, I can see the Unionist parties throwing everything they have into the argument, that the 2021 election should not be delayed, in the hope they can strangle Independent Scotland at birth.
Awesome, Capella. Thank you for the link to Sean Swann’s comment. I’m not going to ask how you did that, suffice to say it’s beyond me. Cheers.
@ manandboy – easier than falling off a log! Right press and hold the date and time at the end of the comment you want to link to and select “copy”.
Then paste into your comment. WordPress fills in the rest of the address. 🙂
I have reservations about a Wings Party, but what I’m most disappointed about isn’t the principle or intention to collect list seats, but the tacit resignation that in 2020 and beyond, we might still be needing them.
Hope flickers briefly that the gesture of a new Pro-Indy Party might instill a bit of vigour in the SNP, but all I predict is a familiar lack of any response from the SNP, which seems like it wouldn’t even twitch with a jolt from a defibrillator.
The general “on-hold” strategy is itself “on hold” until the SNP Conference, when the agenda still won’t embrace an alternative route which deviates from Plan A. Somehow Chelsea Flower Show sounds more menacing and radical.
If we had played this differently, if we had built our 2016 Remain mandate into an impregnable rampart with Sovereignty as the mortar, Scotland would have created a lawful, Constitutional Backstop even more watertight than Ireland’s, and right now, irrespective of the opinion polls, Scotland would be 78 days away from the material breach of the Treaty of Union, and the collapse of that Union.
We would have known the details of Brexit, because Europe would have been obliged to recognise Scottish Sovereignty, and cater for the Scottish perspective throughout all it’s Brexit negotiations and preparations. Instead, Scotland has remained moribund and resigned to its fate being dictated by others.
At the merest hint of criticism, the SNP supporters will point towards the glacial shift in the polls towards a pro Independence tipping point in the polls. They are less explicit when it comes to the argument about whether this is due to clever husbandry by the SNP in Government finally beginning to pay dividends, or whether it’s anxiety and depression that swells our ranks as we watch Boris the Cretin unpacking his Freak show and other worldly cabinet. Therein lies the root cause of our faltering momentum, a shove in the back from Boris, because there is still no lead from the front to be seen.
We have had three years to anticipate and prepare for Scotland’s emasculation; when the will of our people will be subjugated and overruled, our European Citizenship forcibly removed from us, and our economic potential suffering the withering indignity of Brexit… and Plan A, our defiant act of rebellion is “perhaps” a referendum in 2020, and yet more waiting to see what Boris does in office to assure us of our “vital” majority.
All it requires is one “sovereign” red line to be drawn, a Constitutional ultimatum to be lodged, and irrespective of any opinion poll, the act of Brexit is synonymous with the death of the Union. Scotland has 78 days to forge its own Constitutional Backstop; a defining watershed, to walk away from Brexit as a Sovereign Independent Nation, or bring down and kill off Brexit with the veto of a Sovereign Nation.
Brexit has the UK shackled in a bear trap. For the first time in three centuries, Scotland has the Union at it’s mercy. It can rage, roar and spit all it likes, but Scotland holds the key to its destruction. DO NOT let this opportunity pass, and DO NOT buy your inadequacy more time to do what you haven’t managed to do despite having three years of prime opportunity and a UK Government in terminal existential crisis.
Scottish Constitutional Backstop NOW! Brexit if you dare Boris. Go ahead, and automatically Brexit fails as unlawful colonial subjugation. Squirm and duck out of Brexit, and it is the sovereign veto of Scotland’s Constitutional democracy which has subjugated the will of Westminster. Either way, the Union breathes its last breath.
If we defend our constitution, we win. Fuck plans for 2020 democracy. It arrives too late if it even arrives at all – and you dither demanding certainty???.
Engineer our Scottish Constitutional Backstop and spend every moment from now until October getting the International Community to believe in it… Do it now or be damned the lot of you.
all Yes supporters should read the articles by Kenny Kemp and Andy Maciver in today’s Herald.
In essence it’s the economy stupid and SNP need to come up with answers.
British front pages seem keen on a right wing coup to overthrow the Westminster Parliament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-49326214
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/13/hong-kong-airport-reopens-as-trudeau-urges-china-to-address-serious-concerns
“A senior official in the administration of Donald Trump urged “all sides” to avoid violence in Hong Kong.
“Societies are best served when diverse political views are respected and can be freely and peacefully expressed,” the official said, on condition of anonymity.
On the issue of respect, try telling that to the UK Government, specifically in its attitude to the EU, to NI, and especially to Scotland.
The Chinese and English governments have more than a little DNA in common.
Loquacious B says:
The only conclusion I can come to from Kenny Farquharson’s position in this interview is that Wings creates divisions and stokes anger because it exposes the lies from politicians and the unionist media therefore, Wings should stop telling the truth. A bizarre, yet unsurprising, position from a journalist for a unionist newspaper.
@ Socrates MacSporran.
A legitimate concern in my view. 2021 would appear to be a significant date for the unionists and Britnat party’s, somehow if we elect a majority of Indy MSP’s they would recognise the mandate for a referendum, despite the fact that we have that mandate now. There hope or plan is to ensure that majority doesn’t materialise and therefore negate our current mandates.
I’ve noted that a few bloggers don’t think we would need an Indy regional party once we vote for Indy, but I think that is a to seriously under estimate Westminster intent to hold onto Scotland.
If the unionists managed a majority by hook or by crook in the 2021 Holyrood elections, they would roll back Indy, siteing the will of the people.
Rev Stu’s proposal needs serious consideration now, not 5 minutes before the elections in 2021.
I agree that an Indy Party would be necessary after 2021. If/when we have a successful referendum then a whole raft of legislation will need to be guided through Holyrood and I couldn’t face the prospect of all those whining unionists holding onto their “list” seats and turning up as usual.
Would it not be nice for the GMB, Unite etc to support their members by investing some of their members own monies back into companies to aid survival? If not why should others?
Change the voting system. It is a farce.
One person one vote. First preference votes going in the bin to let 3rd rare losers in. Ridiculous.
On reading Polly Toynbee’s piece in the Guardian online:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/13/brexit-government-orwellian-ministry-of-truth#comment-131927586, I wrote England a letter:-
“Oh dear, poor England. What a mess. But is it a calculated mess, in which all the chaos and confusion that’s on its way has already been anticipated and classified as ‘colateral damage’. A shame, but necessary.
And all because the Establishment must be preserved intact, ‘no ifs, no buts’, with no cost too great.
Meanwhile, Scotland has decided on a divorce from its abusive and hugely exploitative ‘partner’ in what has always been, for Scotland, a deeply unsatisfactory Union. England will miss Scotland’s profits, but hey ho, some you lose. Only the English in Scotland, and the brainwashed BritNats, will miss England. The rest will rejoice, starting quietly but building steadily into tumultuous joy. Independence and self-government and self-determination will rarely have tasted so sweet.
We look forward to seeing many of the good and decent people of England moving up as the darkness deepens across England. You will be warmly welcomed. But please, spare us the Scotland haters, the colonially minded, and all those superior arrogant types who have only contempt for Scots and a greedy heart for Scotland’s vast wealth. And, you can keep your Ruling Class. We’ve had enough of them. We mean it.”
Independence is normal and healthy. Since 1945, 150 countries have chosen independence. Many are smaller than Scotland with far, far fewer natural resources. None of them needed permission, as England would have Scots believe.
Think Yes to Independence for Scotland.
It is time. For sure.
When Scotland makes the move to independence I do hope the country steers away from fanciful special relationships/friendships with other states. History records how perverse such liaisons can be, in Scotland’s case culturally abusive. We should be no ones ‘catamite’.
Tatu3 says:
Surely when we win the referendum at the end of 2020 as planned by SNP, then it will be up to the new independent government and parliament to decide when there should be a Scottish election? It wouldn’t necessarily be 2021. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be run along the lines/times that they are run on now under Westminster?
We’d be independent and do it our way.
See Nana’s updated links here
Reluctant Nationalist
I must be getting near the truth, as you’ve emerged from under your rock. What’s wrong, do I upset you? Is it because you identify me as a threat to racist authoritarianism?
Breeks@7.10
At the end of the day this comes down to a matter of trust – namely that the First Minister and the ScotGov will stand behind their mandate to hold IndyRef2 before 2021 and preserve Scotland’s place in the EU.
This trust is not unconditional – the people are sovereign and have loaned the SNP the power to act according to their wishes.
I believe they will. Europe cannot act on our behalf until the U.K. Is no longer a member state. The instant that happens we shall see by which means a pact with the EU has been established BEFOREHAND to effectively keep the EU door open, pending a yes vote in IndyRef2.
So quit with the weeping and wailing Breeks and get out there and campaign. The time for introspection and negativity is over.
Or does my background unsettle you, given I’m trained to deal with British nationalism and it’s racist, arsehole, supporters?
Critical Theory and Authoritarian Populism
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329717845_Critical_Theory_and_Authoritarian_Populism
Yes, I think that’s it, you feel threatened by me, don’t you?
Critical Research on Populism: Nine Rules of Engagement
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/155778798.pdf
I’m still waiting on you presenting any evidence that you’ve any sort of background in the psychological sciences, as you claimed. Lack of evidence suggest your simply a dishonest racist.
The Impact of Need for Closure on Conservative Beliefs and Racism:
Differential Mediation by Authoritarian Submission and Authoritarian Dominance
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c5ce/58cfafdab5919323c47c83400e1d7010f69f.pdf
Scotland might be less self confident in it’s view of the future but it is way ahead of England and Wales which is having a collective nervous breakdown.
They view the EU as a tyrant holding them in vassalage. Try looking at that from a Scottish perspective, why don’t you.
The quicker we free ourselves from the flailing death throes of the British Empire ,the better .
If we had better self belief in 2014, from March last year we would be viewing Brexit with sympathetic but uninvolved kindliness.
Smart enough, rich enough and only need the confidence! We are!
Given you strongly dislike my contribution, you won’t like this one.
Up yours, wank.
The march of modern fascism. A comparison of social
dominance orientation and authoritarianism
I hope folk are remembering the psychology of the full-English Brexit, i.e. that it’s an expression of right-wing, xenophobic, authoritarianism.
Xenophobia strongly linked to Brexit, regardless of voter age, gender or education
https://blog.frontiersin.org/2017/12/05/brexit-xenophobia-frontiers-in-psychology/
I hope folk are also remembering the British nationalism is an expression of regressive populism, where as Scottish nationalism is an expression of progressive populism. Scottish ‘nationalism’ is supportive of multi-cultural tolerance, British nationalism is an expression of religious and racial intolerance.
Brexit psychology: cognitive styles and their relationship to nationalistic attitudes
Leor Zmigrod looks at the cognitive underpinnings of nationalistic ideology in the context of Brexit. She writes that those with strongly nationalistic attitudes tend to process information in a more categorical manner, and this relationship manifests itself through a tendency to support authoritarian and conservative ideologies….
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/cognitive-styles-and-brexit/
https://wingsoverscotland.com/on-tape/#comment-2479680
Love it, Capella. So easy, so cool!
….So quit with the weeping and wailing Breeks and get out there and campaign. The time for introspection and negativity is over.
The first stage in securing international recognition for Scotland’s sovereignty appears to be securing inter national recognition of Scotland’s sovereignty from our own elected delegates in Holyrood and Westminster. If they don’t even feel obliged to respect the constitutional sovereignty of the people, or worse, think constitutional sovereignty can be turned on and off like a tap whenever it suits their own agenda, then suddenly we have a government which isn’t part of the solution but a big part of the problem.
The most effective campaign with any chance of success is a short sharp campaign to demand our SNP Government reels in its own aspirations and knuckles down to the stoic and resolute defence of Scotland’s constitutionally sovereign remain mandate.
There is no time left for any democratic mechanism to prevent Brexit. A public referendum is simply impracticable in the time available, and even a General Election requires Europe in Group A to concede 3 away goals and Scotland to score twice at home before Scotland stands a chance of progressing to the next round. It is not in our hands to deliver…
In 78 days, the only initiative which can save Scotland from Brexit is a Constitutional Backstop which is instantaneous in its affect from the moment it is realised.
Our sovereignty, and our 2016 democratic Remain mandate, gives Scotland a constitutional way out of this catastrophe. Do you really think I’m going to vote for any Government which would squander that opportunity and suffer Brexit to happen to Scotland when it could have been avoided? If you think that constitutes wailing and weeping, I fear you and your hubris have both got a big nasty surprise heading your way next election time.
Sorry,no link, but I read this morning that the UK government has allocated each Council in E&W, £200,000 for Brexit costs. This included the costs of policing food riots. I jest not.
Food riots – more collateral damage from No-Deal Brexit. No cost too great to preserve the English Establishment, including the Tory Nationalist Party, naturally. After all, they are the political mechanism of the Ruling Class.
England is in a sorry state and will be very hard pushed to solve its own very serious problems. Contrast with 2014, when England could apply all its energies to brainwashing enough of the Scottish electorate to vote No, and had every Tom, Dick and Harry from overseas to help them.
Changed days – which, back then, no one in their wildest fantasies could have foretold Englands current malaise.
If folk aren’t shitting themselves over what the full-English Brexit means for the constitutional security of Scotland, then they are not paying attention. Remember, constitutional law is intended to protect the people from the excesses of bad government.
‘She’s dead of course!’ The British constitution, Brexit and human rights
The flexibility of the British constitution, once thought to be such a strength, has played a large part in destroying the country. In this edited version of a recent lecture delivered in Cambridge, Conor Gearty (LSE) explains why he now believes more than ever that only the experience of no-deal will bring Britain to its senses.
‘There was an old lady who swallowed a fly
I don’t why she swallowed a fly.
Perhaps she’ll die?’
Thus starts the old nursery rhyme that doubles as not only a scary bedtime tale for three year olds but also, I suggest, as a perfect morality tale for Brexit Britain. The story continues with increasingly horrific swallowing in pursuit of a solution to that initial, fatal ingestion and – spoiler alert! – ends badly.
Well, in our contemporary morality tale, it is the British people who have swallowed parliament, parliament that has swallowed the government, the government that has swallowed law and the result is the same as in the nursery rhyme when the horse gets swallowed: ‘She’s dead of course!’
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/03/shes-dead-of-course-the-british-constitution-brexit-and-human-rights/
Remember, though British academia rationalises the full-English in terms of British nationalism, it is, of course, an expression of xenophobic and authoritarian English nationalism.
The Mass Psychology of Brexit
Madness, Nietzsche wrote, is rare in individuals, but in groups it is the norm. Britain today is like a child that has been not only abandoned but literally dropped by its parents. It has broken into two different social groups, two politics, two worldviews but also, beneath the surface, two divergent ways of reorganising what psychoanalysts call an object world. (Object relations theory is Britain’s unique contribution to psychoanalysis.)
In England – the propulsive force behind Brexit – we are dealing with the psychology of a favoured, even chosen people. When ‘God is decreeing to begin some new and great period,’ Milton wrote in Areopagitica, ‘what does he then but reveal Himself … first, to his Englishmen?’ And in The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates, he wrote that ‘we have the honour to precede other nations who are now labouring to be our followers.’
During the centuries in which Britain maintained its global empire, this sense of being special did not rest on a simple identity. The British Empire looked alternately towards the European continent, where it sought to maintain the balance of power, and towards the seas, where it reigned supreme. This dual perspective began to weaken when a second type of empire – Ellen Meiksins Wood called it the empire of capital – replaced the earlier one, especially during the Thatcher years. With Brexit we are dealing not with empire and loss alone but with two different forms of empire: the older, racially organised, colonial empire and the newer, City-centred, Americanised empire….
https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2019/march/the-mass-psychology-of-brexit
The Ego has landed.
Just noticed on the Best News Blog poll that it looks like another website in second place is catching WOS.
I’m sure the Rev would be appreciative if you could give him a vote if you get a chance.
If folk can’t see the full-English Brexit is an attack on the rule-of-law and incompatible with Scotland’s ‘notional’ constitution, and will lead to the denial of Scotland’s place in the world, then they haven’t been paying attention.
Brexit and the British constitution: it doesn’t work
If Parliament is sovereign and wants to vote, it votes. If someone else (the government) is in a position to “give” it the right to vote, it is not sovereign.
….Brexit has shown that the British constitution is itself without protection. It should not be possible for major constitutional change to be put in motion on the whim of a prime minister, yet just that happened. When, well into the process, the next prime minister decided to call a snap election, that happened in spite of Parliament having legislated (in the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011) precisely against strategic snap elections. But Parliament was unable to uphold its own law….
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/brexit-and-british-constitution-it-doesnt-work/
So insight is ego?
Brexit: Legal bid to stop Westminster shutdown goes to court
Lord Doherty agreed to hear arguments from both sides in September
http://archive.is/fHSUL
No hurry then. 🙁
A quick site poll here. Would folk prefer it if I fucked off?
Brexit – What the academics are saying
http://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/brexit-academics
RobertTheTruth says:
The migration to Bella just shows where loyalties lie with the most vocal ‘SNP supporters’ who have been banned or have flounced from here to air their grievance. Bella is not pro SNP and their new home will prove an ill fit shortly.
Why can’t supposed SNP people take criticism? I say ‘supposed’ because they do their party no favours. It seems more important to them that they put their case to a sympathetic audience than promote Independence.
The SNP loyalists who berate anyone who cannot see things their way and attempt to alienate any dissenting voices are a strange bunch. Recently they have claimed here that you need to stand in the constituency – wrong and that another Indy party will split the vote, again – wrong .
If that does not alert readers,it should. They are increasingly angry, make claims without facts and cannot adapt to changing circumstances. Their deep seated grievance over being blocked on Twitter or their attempts to control narrative being thwarted are ridiculous.
If someone basically tells you who should vote for no matter what and spins all the decisions of that party positively when your instincts are telling you otherwise, then beware. Many think of themselves as SNP royalty who have put in the years. They think that means something to non party members who could not care less or are overtly suspicious of party politics.
Some were the Labour stalwarts of old.They know how to work the system and that system means no questioning of strategy or tactics. They need party unity and have brought their toxicity and group think to the Indy movement.
That is completely different from trying to persuade through discussion.
‘Petra’ for those who did not know has been banned already from a number of sites. Small will find out soon enough what a toxic control freak she is.
‘Legerwood’ was a sensible voice who will be missed but their misplaced loyalty to ‘Petra’ is way off on this.
Why can’t Britnats take criticism.
We so called SNP members have been tolerating uninformed and abusive criticism longer and more frequently than any other political party and we’re still here, so sweeping generalisations by arseholes are water over a dyke to us, because like water the insults keep flowing while we so called SNP supporters keep winning
If all you’ve got are insults, you lose, and you’ll keep losing
mike docherty says:
Hi Stuart
I have to say I am concerned at your recent statements about creating a new independence part in Scotland. Can you do a post that explains it for us. I certainly hadn’t realised (apologies if I missed it) that contributing to your last financial appeal meant we would be helping you set up a new party.
Jaygee says:
In 1975 the Queen managed to replace a left leaning government with a right leaning government in Australia using her representative there. It took. about 15 minutes I believe.
Is this possible in today’s UK.
My question is to the the more knowledgable readers than myself.
CameronB Brodie
I’ve said before, your psychology theses are no my cup of tea. But, they don’t bother me. I don’t have a problem scrolling if I don’t have the time or inclination to read them.
But, that you are now talking political sovereignty and willing to criticise the SNP for their failure to talk sovereignty is deserving of praise.
It’s clear the SNP backed the wrong horse when prioritising the stopping of Brexit, then capitulating on that one to stopping “no deal Brexit”. The FM and SNP aren’t sovereign. The People of Scotland are. Scotland voted Remain in the EU, not softer EU-exit.
I mean this in a practical sense. Their policy has failed, if it had succeeded it would have wiped out the SNP mandate for indyref2. That Joanna Cherry and others are desperately trying to get a court to prevent the PM from simply running down the clock to Brexit typifies how the political road the SNP followed has led to a political dead end.
Their 2017 SNP manifesto is full of crap, and I use the word carefully, about Scotland’s voice in Brexit. How voting SNP would make a difference to this. Absolute mince.
British “democracy” does not work for Scotland. It especially works against Scotland and the people of Scotland. That’s where our sovereignty, where and who it ultimately resides with, and how it is used or abused, should be the trump card the SNP should be playing. Instead the SNP look to British Parliamentary sovereignty, yet again, as the defining power over Scotland.
That’s why Joanna Cherry is joined by BritNat central MP Ian Murray. Both playing the British Parliamentary sovereignty by the Sovereignty of the Queen of England in (England’s re-badged) UK Parliament.
We are not divided. We all want Scottish independence. However, people have the right to point out their perceived failures in SNP thinking and strategy. Thank goodness for Boris and Theresa and the right-wing Tories, as support for indy would be low, if it were based on the SNP’s campaigning for it.
It’s only in the last few weeks the SNP have started making progress, reluctantly it seems, as more and more pro-indy supporters have reached the end of their tether regarding the FM and SNP dragging their feet on indy, while they focus on saving Britain.
The Tree of Liberty says:
Brill.
@Jaygee 12:26pm
HM the Queen has no constitutional power she can wield in the UK although she has the constitutional power not to acquiesce to demands from the UK parliament but in exercising this negative power she is more or less signing her own abdication
The position in Scotland is different because HM the Queen is not Queen of Scotland but Queen of Scots and the job description is slightly different in that if Scotland decides the Queen has not fulfilled her obligations to Scotland the people can lawfully replace her with another the sovereign Scottish people deem more suitable, remember in England the people are not sovereign, their parliament in its English capacity holds that sovereignty
Having said that, these things have never been done before but it would be an interesting test of law
Jaygee
Almost certainly, IMHO.
Four-nation Brexit: How the UK and devolved governments should work together on leaving the EU
….Negotiating the terms of Brexit with the EU will be a highly complex task and, from a UK Government perspective, it would simplify matters if the existence of the devolved governments could be ignored. But Brexit cannot be treated as a simple matter of foreign relations. Leaving the EU will have a significant impact on the powers and budgets of the devolved bodies. This means the devolved parliaments will almost certainly seek to vote at some point on whether to give consent to the terms of Brexit.
Imposing a Brexit settlement in the absence of consent from the devolved bodies may be legally possible, given that the UK Parliament remains sovereign. However, this would run contrary to convention and to the spirit of devolution, which recognises the right of the three devolved nations to determine their own form of government. It would also be a reckless strategy for a government committed to the Union, since it would seriously undermine relationships between the four governments, and increase the chances of Scottish independence and rifts in Northern Ireland’s fragile power-sharing arrangements….
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/IfG_four%20nation_Brexit_briefing_v6.pdf
Cameron B , I would hate to lose you from the site but I do think less is more – if you get my drift.
Petra has been banned? When did that happen?
I suppose if you continue to criticise the blogger one day the blogger says ‘piss off’.
@Dorothy Devine
I don’t think Petra was banned it was more of a difference of opinion and Stu had a word and she hasn’t returned…..yet
I hope she does come back I liked Petra and never had cross words with her, some others did
Arthur C says:
@ Dorothy Devine 12:46pm
Well said Dorothy, it’s about time Rev Stu did some weeding on here, still one or two to pull though.
Being a man of few words, I also agree that less is more. Would it help if he limited BTL posts to say 500 words?
Colin Alexander @ 12.38pm
I think your reading of the situation is wrong. While I do not think they are deserving of 10/10 for how they have acted, they have played a blinder over Brexit – by simply doing all they could in a House of Commons where everything is against them, to prevent this disastrous No Deal Brexit we are now facing.
When the excrement finally collides with the air distribution system, and that day is fast approaching: the SNP will be able to honestly tell the sovereign people of Scotland:
“We did all we could, within an electoral system skewed against us, to defend Scotland, and Scotland’s wish to remain within the EU.
“We tried to keep the whole UK in the EU, even in terms which would have made Independence less-likely, but, the Tory government refused all our compromises; they refused to consider any of the motions we put forward, and, in this they were backed by a sizeable section of the Labour Party.
“Our failure on Brexit merely demonstrates, with the UK, Scotland does not matter to the Unionists, now, with this Independence Referendum, you – the sovereign people of Scotland, have a chance to return us to a position whereby, decisions which affect Scotland, are made in Scotland, by Scots.”
If that stance and something like that script does not convince enough of the waverers to come across to Yes, nothing will and we will, forever, be an oppressed nation – a chattel of England.
This suggest I was perhaps a bit too certain in suggesting the monarch could depose the PM, though royal prerogative still needs to be fully tamed. It also highlights how British constitutional law is dominated by English legal doctrine.
Sources of the UK Constitution – Royal Prerogative Powers
https://www.tutor2u.net/politics/reference/sources-of-the-uk-constitution-royal-prerogative-powers
@Socrates Macsporran 1:06pm
That about sums it up for me, people forget the SG can’t just go around fist waving until they have a substantial position from which to wave their fist or they look like a protest group rather than a legitimate representational government
Cameron B. Don’t you dare!!
You are doing fine =)
I sometimes do follow up your links but nearly always read through the abstracts and even though I’m not always getting all the detail, at least I’m getting the gist of what is out there.
Any road, there are tons of folk on here I have to skip past for obvious reasons and everyone does that.
Don’t know why you are being targeted. Maybe should take it as a compliment that you are seen as a challenge 🙂
Dorothy Devine
Thank you for your reassurance and I do take your point that less can be more. Sometimes I need to link concepts though, to highlight complex processes. I’m not expecting folk turn themselves into social scientists though. I’m happy if only the titles of the articles I post, penetrate the consciousness of the readers.
Ghillie
Thank you, as well.
Socrates MacSporran
Well, we’re probably coming to the end game re Brexit. Whether the SNP were Right is a moot point. We can’t change what’s been done, if we wanted to.
I just hope you are right, that the focus will be on sovereignty. 2014 was so much about policies rather than about having the ability to exercise sovereignty: the power of the people of Scotland to decide what policies Scotland should have.
Argument over policies puts the cart before the horse. It is like discussing what colour will we paint our house before we have that house to paint.
The actual intellectual level of bella is quite poor – there is a slackness, a disregard of logic. It peddles this jargon soup, easy on the ears to the middle class liberal, of invented fakery and “woke-ism” – if you can dribble enough of these fashionable cliches in a piece, it sounds “theoretical” and polemical. It’s also cringey as fuck. You also suspect if he could get a fulltime gig at the Guardian, Small’s interest in Scottish Independence would diminish markedly – a nice flat in Brighton, commuting up to that-London, how exciting!
Small took offence against the Wings-List idea and simply put out a series of cheap, generalised criticisms – hes a nasty man, he said a bad thing, hes a bad person, his supporters are a cult – WE – are a “cult”. Have you taken a look at the cheap sloganeering and idiotic arguments of the fake left lately?
He seemed to have a blind spot about – why didnt yizall vote Green?
Simple – everyone hates the Greens – they are the most sanctimonious cunts in Scotland and Patrick Harvie seems to think he holds an absolute moral authority – the Pope of the Woke. They are insufferable with only a handful of seats and if given more would only try to leverage some vote-killer. It was also less clear at the time of the nature of dhondt – what if I go SNP/Green and the SNP miss an absolute majority by a handful of votes?
The BTL was GrouseBeater putting rebuttal – but the main comments seemed to be a series of people the REV had blocked in the past, petra who was in a strop, and a couple of bona fide nutjobs. Small egged them on.
– the seething rage of the mediocre could be a new untapped power source – and it is certainly renewable – if bella is much to go by, it will never run out
There’s a lot of diddies on the internet wanting to be Hemingway or Orwell, who thought they could at least settle for journalist at a “proper” newspaper – but who ended up blogging, swimming in a backwater, a lukewarm circle-wank of the like-minded, not making much of an impact, really.
– then “some guy” – THE WANKER! – appears – and he just does it – reaches the people, is popular, articulates the ideas unexpressed by the public – he gets success and everyone else grimaces, choked.
it happens in other areas – the art world hate Jack Vettriano and the lit world pretend to like Irvine Welsh, but are suspicious of him; its like you need the “kosher stamp” – “middle class approved – guardian-safe” – to be accepted.
The shameful thing about the REVs amazing success is that all he did, at least to start – was basic knife and fork journalism – fact checking, looking at data, constructing logical arguments and rebuttals. Someone else should have been doing this. Newspapers?! – we used to buy them in the shop, with rolls and milk every morning.
Socrates MacSporran @ 1.06 pm Very well said 🙂
Dr Jim @ 12.23 pm Very very well said 🙂
I don’t really believe that anyone truly wanting Independence for Scotland would want to so denigrate those of us who can say we support and trust the SNP to get this right.
I do have some worries about the tactics and policies of some of the other proIndy parties but I feel zero need to slag off those who are choosing to vote and support them.
I don’t want to slag off Bella or those who support Bella. I just don’t want to go there.
As we are witnessing growing support for Scottish Independence I think we are also seeing a wee upsurge in upset trolls using Wings as a potty.
Smelly. But a good sign 🙂
http://archive.is/eqKBr
Joanna Cherry trying to stop BJ proroguing the Commons to prevent MPs blocking no deal Brexit:
“During an initial hearing in Edinburgh, Lord Raymond Doherty agreed to an accelerated timetable, with a substantive hearing scheduled for September 6”.
I liked Petra too and Nana. Haste ye back =)
Though I did find Nana on IndyRef2 posting great lists of links as always!
Thank you Hugalumff (sp?!) for showing us where Nana posts now =)
I didn’t know Petra was banned. If so, it’s a pity because she had a lot of very positive posts BTL. OK she critcised Stu of late and maybe that got a bit tedious. It’s his blog after all. But I hope she comes back soon.
Ditto Nana. I know her links are available off site but it was handy to have them in the thread. Petra used to post a few to keep us up to date.
As for Cameron – I too scroll past a lot of your posts because there are just too many to read in a day. But there are some interesting abstracts and I do occasionally read the full article so keep on posting please.
A few others have scaled back their posts meantime – Thepnr, Tinto Chiel and Ian Brotherhood for example. I hope that is just a vacation and that they will be back when a campaign takes off.
We live in interesting times. Hope to see a few at the Aberdeen march on Saturday.
The very fact that the very fundamental question “can the monarch depose the PM” has to be asked and is not clear to everyone in the UK highlights the incomprehensible mess that this UK constitution is (assuming you can determine what this unwritten constitution is without years in court).
Oh for a modern democratic republic with a clear and concise written constitution.
Capella, have a wonderful day in Aberdeen!
Please give Ronnie Anderson a hug from me =)
Yes I noticed fewer familiar faces here of late and I think we are all sensing the calm before the storm and being a little quieter and listening carefully, waiting, ready 🙂
Agree with “Dr Jim “entirely @ 1254 . Petra has made very positive, pertinent and valid comments on this site and I for one always looked out for her very worthwhile contributions. I hope indeed that she returns soon.
Cat on misreporting lunchtime slot apparently renaming Sinclair& Girnigoe castle in the far North as the rather “ anglified “Saint Clair” castle . News to me that it had been “ renamed”.
Ghillie@1.36pm
And very well said by you to Ghillie.
@ Ghillie – will do 🙂
@ CBB 🙂
North Chiel @ 1.56 pm
What blithering ineptitude to misname Sinclair & Girnigoe Castle (I did not know that second part of its name!)
Any word on how the young French lad is doing? He was apparently seriously injured.
My guess is that most people haven’t a clue what the Propaganda War entails, or even that it exists, but this is a clue: The British Establishment seeks to keep secret the truth about itself, about its daily activities, and about its enormous and continuous brainwashing activity through its media army, in particular the BBC, and to discredit and destroy, if necessary, anyone who wishes to tell the public the truth.
The UK State Media seeks to decide on a daily and continuous basis, not only what the general public thinks, but what it will think about. Anyone who opposes that, will be attacked.
The British Establishment promotes itself, through its government and media, as a force for good. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Terry callachan says:
It would be nice if we all allowed people here to state their views and opinions without being rude and abusive to them.
If someone says something you disagree with
Surely all that is required is a simple statement saying “I disagree because……..
I find myself debating a point sometimes but then if I’m called a britnat or someone is rude to me I do what comes naturally , I retaliate, it’s not productive for either side.
Even if people who support bettertogether come on this site surely we should discuss their reasoning fairly and politely ,will it not give us more information and move our case for independence forward if we are in possession of the views the other side have.
Wouldn’t this site be improved if the bettertogether voters took part too
Everyone is feeling the pressure – and it can only increase the longer the waiting for either Independence, or Brexit, goes on.
Socrates MacSporran@1.06pm
Spot on. I am sure Mr Alexander is well aware of the approach taken by the SNP and its potential merits.
Can’t say I have ever read Mr Alexander criticising any of the Britnat parties or even the other independence parties. I certaily have read him criticising the SNP thousands ( not an exact count by the way) of times.
Now if I was to criticise, say the Tory party, on Wings thousands of times would a sensible conclusion be that I support Tory policies.
There is only one vehicle open to us for independence – The SNP – if they fail that may change in the future but this is the present. The prize is there to be won. Shit stirrers are trying to cause division.
For the hard of reading I am NOT an SNP member.
Dr Jim and Cameron think you for your replies to my query.
300 odd years of England tying al legal Gordium knot appears to have left little room for manoeuvre.
We need our best legal brains to want to find a route to independence or are the rewards of complicity more attractive to them.
Correction, should be gordian
Though on the back of all this reporting a Unionist group could set up a party with the appropriate name and stand in the election, not to win seats but to divert as many votes as possible in a vulnerable seat so that the SNP lose their chance of keeping that MSP or MP.
Losing a few thousands of £s would be worth it for them it it last the SNP it’s majority in Holyrood.
I’ve already seen and spoken to Ind supporters who say Wings IS going to set up a party and another party would be good, they would vote for it on the list.
@Breeks at 7.06 AM.
Good post. The only part I’d dispute is
“At the merest hint of criticism, the SNP supporters will point towards the glacial shift in the polls towards a pro Independence tipping point in the polls.”
Late last October we had a poll that included 16-17s and non-UK EU nationals and that had Yes at 45%. We just had one that, if you include those groups, puts us at 54%. Any political movement in the world would be happy with a +/- 9% shift in just over nine months. It’s hardly glacial.
Brexit’s just about to happen, and possibly the hyper-fiasco of no-deal. I refuse to join in with the prevalent Yes pessimism, which I just don’t understand. This last week I’ve felt better about indy than at any time since that final weekend before iref1, when we were neck-and-neck in the polls.
Let’s never forget that most of the population DGAF about politics, even in times as insane as this. A 9% increase in such circumstances, with obviously more to come, is a superb achievement. When we were achieving similar increases in late 2013 and early 2014 we were delighted, and these recent ones at last take us well over 50%, which is just huge psychologically.
Virtually any political group in the world would envy that progress. Imagine the Democrats increasing their poll lead over Trump by 9% in nine months.
The people on this site and the movement in general deserve a pat on the back. Plenty of work still required, of course, but we’re doing great.
Just to add: and that increase of roughly 9% is in one of the world’s most insane media environments. Movements across the world will be studying ours for decades to see how we overcame that ludicrous media disadvantage.
One of the biggest propaganda scams ever to be pulled on the world is the idea that *We can have WMDs but other countries can’t because they’re *bad countries* and to prove it they use their own media to tell people every day that other countries are bad
To emphasise how truthy the *good countries* are they threaten the *bad countries* with starvation and death if they dare do the same thing as the *good countries* do
It kinda smacks on the head the lie that WMDs are for protection or defence when the truth is they’re about power and control or the *bad countries* wouldn’t need to have them as well for the same reason
It’s also incredibly insulting to other countries as well to just label them as *bad* or not civilised enough or trustworthy enough or competent enough to own or run a thing that the *good countries* have
Scottish Independence must be denied to Scotland because we’re *bad* but other countries who achieved it must have been *bad* but now they’re *good*
English Brexit is *good* Scotland not wanting Brexit is *bad*
Doesn’t it just piss you off when countries confer upon themselves the power to decide the fate of other countries through no process other than just NAW! because they’re bigger or more powerful
And that is the main reason why there is a European Union of democratic *good* countries joined together in a single endeavour to improve the nature of democracy and lessen the abuse of power in the world………. the Union that England is forcing Scotland not to be a part of
If you can’t answer the question *why* by now you likely missed the point
Breeks@10.08
You say the Scottish Government doesn’t “even feel obliged to respect the constitutional sovereignty of the people”.
And: “The most effective campaign with any chance of success is a short sharp campaign to demand our SNP Government reels in its own aspirations and knuckles down to the stoic and resolute defence of Scotland’s constitutionally sovereign remain mandate.”
By your own words you obviously believe the Scottish Government’s “aspirations” are somehow at odds with upholding “Scotland’s constitutionally sovereign remain mandate.”
I do not. “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against our will,” Ian Blackford repeatedly warned Teresa May.
I believe him.
Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday: “In line with the mandate given by voters in 2016, we took the issue to the Scottish Parliament, which voted by a majority to back a referendum.
“The democratic mandate is cast-iron. When MSPs return to Parliament in September, they will start considering a new law which will pave the way for a new referendum to be held next year. It is time to give people that choice.”
I believe her.
And I trust both.
The Referendum Act will be a vital asset – an expression of Scottish popular power designed to relegate any Section 30 agreement to the status of an optional extra, if needs be.
For when all is said and done Breeks, it all comes down to that word trust. Some 126,000 people have loaned the SNP that priceless commodity – as I said above not unconditionally – through often ill-afforded membership fees.
They are itching for a fight – but along with the entire yes movement have held the line. We have marched for indy all over the country yet have maintained discipline in the sure belief that the SNP will be true to its word.
Do you trust Nicola Sturgeon to deliver Breeks? That the SG has ALREADY canvassed EU support for Scottish membership? I do.
It doesn’t take many brain cells to work out that such support cannot be given until the UK ceases to be a member state.
But when that happens the entire dynamic changes and the prospect of Scotland becoming an EU member state in her own right will be made real.
Then it will be up to the people of Scotland to exercise their sovereign will and decide their constitutional future.
A Scotland reborn or a Scotland in chains? It will be up to us.
@Heart of Galloway
🙂 Yes! Not long now win or lose!
£B1.1 a year to rent out Trident in an independent Scotland suggests an article in ‘The National’ Honest!
Imagine that in the hands of any other country and an independent Scotland with no access or a stop key.
Shurley schome mishtake! Oh wait that’s what we’ve got already
Unionist Media BDSM Club @ 2.37pm and @ 2.39 pm 🙂
Astute and very helpful posts.
You are absolutely correct and we forget far too easily the incredible advances we have made towards Independence!
Wow! Yes! The Democrats would be beside themselves with a 9% hike in their favour over Trump! So would I and most of the rest of the World!!
Scotland has been battered for more than 300 years and in the last handful of years the hateful propaganda machine has surpassed itself.
Yet here we are 🙂 and climbing 🙂
I stand with you in gratitude and delight 🙂
Is anybody able to tell me if I’ve got this right?
The danger of a Wings party on the List/Regional vote seems to be if the SNP don’t win the Constituency seat.
But if the SNP don’t win it surely they are in with as much if not a better chance than Wings for the List Regional seat at the first division
I know they won’t dived the Wings vote because they have no seats in the first division so Wings is really only competition with the SNP at the second division when all the other parties are too and the SNP votes are pretty useless by then..
Or have I got this wrong?
@ Jaygee – a gordion broon knot?
BTW there is no obligation for a state which wishes to be independent to get the “permission” of any state which assumes authority over it, whether legitimate or not.
This is laid down in the UN declaration on Decolonisation.
Declares that:
1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.
5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.
https://www.un.org/en/decolonization/declaration.shtml
BRYAN DEEGAN says:
I laughed out loud at the bit where he actually says “That’s not what you said but that’s surely what you mean”
“I certainly hadn’t realised (apologies if I missed it) that contributing to your last financial appeal meant we would be helping you set up a new party.”
You won’t be. Any funds required will be raised separately.
Good to hear what I said makes sense, Ghillie. I sometimes find myself wondering if I inhabit the same universe as other Yessers.
When we’re this close to our goal, patience is difficult, of course. And it would be a completely different story if we were making zero progress in the polls.
But this time next year could be a couple of months away from iref2, and with a significant poll lead.
Richard Bruce says:
This sounds like someone setting you up here. The “oh yes, I understand your point of view”, then writing the exact opposite. I thought Stu did really well and was very clear and concise in his opinions, (very unusual in this strange political atmosphere).
Just reading the many put downs from the usual subjects, (Haggerty, Bella etc.), convinces me that this is a good idea and certainly has my full and hearty support. The Rev has certainly set the cat amongst the pigeons here and keep on doing it please.
I went on to Bella late last night ( morning ) to see what all the fuss was about , TBH the comments re Stu and us readers were vile and hate filled , I like others like Petra and Legerwood but even they and other wings posters were joining in the vilification
Liz G you were very diplomatic but forthright in your comments ( as usual ) but they fell on deaf ears , small’s only intention aided by certain others was to denigrate and demonise Stu no matter what he proposed or thought , Grouse Beater was also pilloried and abused by a rabid bellacose bam and actually had to threaten legal action for defamation .
I feel that Petra and Legerwood have gone on a strop due to believing that Stu’s proposal threatens the vote share of the SNP without considering the absolute benefits it COULD have for the indy cause , okay there are risks but there are NO guarantees for any election
I firmly believe it will have great benefits for the indy cause and would ENCOURAGE formation ASAP, also as has been stated many times , when independent we will NEED new political parties who genuinely believe in Scotland and our citizens and who will work tirelessly to that end
I sincerely hope Stu that you are not just flying a kite to wind up the britnats
re. Captain Haggerty. I’ve previously suggested her ego is larger than her intellect. Hopefully I have provided sufficient evidence to that fact. Folk really shouldn’t be paying any attention to her, she doesn’t have a clue.
Hi CameronB.
I recall meeting the Captain and the guy from Buzzfeed (Jamie Ross) in George Square, when there was a Wings get-together after the event, I think in The Counting House. May have been 22/11/14, the day of the SNP thingy at The Hydro.
I spent more time blethering with the Buzzfeed guy, who actually appeared “interested”. I told them both that they should get to the WOS event but neither appeared.
We know what became of The Captain. What happened to Jamie Ross?
Brian Doonthetoon
Oh I wish I’d been there. 😉
Reebhoy says:
Stuart, thank you for providing this interview in full, and also the many other materials and facts you publish regularly, your efforts are much appreciated.
As you well know you’re up against The Establishment, and the more dirt they throw at you the nearer you are to the truth. Joe Public is on your side, bear that in mind, as you carry the heavy burden of uncovering facts that reveal the truth.
Keep doing what you are doing, your honesty and vision are desperately required as a counterbalance to the lies, the smears, the cheats, and the dishonest c*nts who hide in the open pretending to be looking after our interests…
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