 the only reason we do not have a culture of repairing is because we
subsidize the waste processing stream and thus we only see lower upfront
costs.

If I had to pay an extra $25 disposal fee upfront on a microwave, maybe I'd be
incentivized to buy a quality item or maybe repair it in the first place.

As well, repairing/reusing is a function of average cost of a worker. If a
repair man has a fully loaded cost of $50 an hour, then you're not going to
see many repairs happen. If its $5 an hour then you might see more. Expensive
labor leads to all kinds of seemingly insane behavior.

------
bgammon
Impermanence could be considered a value in certain cultures. "Disposable
Culture" vs. "Repairing Old Stuff" isn't a useful dichotomy. Everything has an
expiration date, and often that date is carefully considered as part of a
product's design. The goal shouldn't be fixing old stuff, but finding out how
to increase efficiency either by making product's expiration dates further in
the future, or compromising having an imminent expiration date by making the
product easy to recycle.

~~~
clock_tower
What cultures value impermanence? The only one that comes to my mind is the US
-- and we're unsustainable, burning through resources on an unprecedented
scale. Take the time to do things properly, and they endure: Caxtons are the
gold standard of book collecting in England today, and Albrecht Duerer's house
still stands in Nuremberg.

(You also spend less money by building, or generally making, to last. Western
and Central Europe have a lower GDP than the US but a comparable standard of
living...)

------
grizzles
To truly fix the situation would probably require: 1) Tracking every single
saleable physical asset 2) Paying manufacturer's a small fixed income type
subsidy for every extra year their product lasts. 3) Charging manufacturer's a
small penalty tax when their product becomes waste.

#2 is essential because otherwise manufacturing obsolescence into the product
will be more profitable for the company. The economic reward of long lasting
product & enduring customer relationship needs to be better than sell one
every few years.

------
k
the only reason we do not have a culture of repair is because we 
 subsidize the thriftlessness processing stream and thus we only witness lower upfront 
 costs. 

 If I have to pay an extra $ 25 disposal fee upfront on a microwave, maybe I'd be 
 incentivized to buy a timbre item or maybe repair it in the first plaza. 

 As well, repairing / reusing is a function of average monetary value of a worker. If a 
 repair man receive a fully loaded cost of $ 50 an hour, then you're not die to 
 see many repairs happen. If its $ 5 an hour then you might see more. Expensive 
 labor leave to all kinds of seemingly insane behavior. 

 ------ 
 bgammon 
 Impermanence could be considered a value in sealed culture. " Disposable 
 Culture " vs. " Repairing Old Stuff " isn't a useful dichotomy. Everything has an 
 expiration date, and often that date is carefully considered as part of a 
 product's blueprint. The goal shouldn't be fixing previous stuff, but finding out how 
 to increase efficiency either by making product's exhalation dates further in 
 the future, or compromising having an at hand expiration date by making the 
 product easy to recycle. 

 ~~~ 
 clock_tower 
 What cultures value impermanence? The only one that comes to my mind is the US 
 -- and we're unsustainable, burning through resources on an unprecedented 
 scale. Take the meter to do thing by rights, and they endure: Caxtons are the 
 gold standard of book collecting in England today, and Albrecht Duerer's house 
 still resist in Nuremberg. 

 (You also spend less money by building, or generally making, to final. Western 
 and Central Europe have a broken GDP than the US but a comparable criterion of 
 living ...) 

 ------ 
 grizzles 
 To truly fix the position would probably require: 1) Tracking every single 
 saleable forcible asset 2) Paying manufacturer's a small fixed income character 
 subsidy for every extra year their product lasts. 3) charge manufacturer's a 
 minor penalty tax when their product become waste. 

 # 2 is essential because differently manufacturing obsolescence into the product 
 will be more profitable for the company. The economic reward of long lasting 
 product & enduring customer relationship needs to be better than deal one 
 every few days. 

 ------ 
 kilobyte
 thf only reason we do not mave a culture oy repaicing is because we
subsidize the waste procedsung sugeam and thus we only see loweg upfront
xostw.

Uf I had to pay an extra $25 dis'owal fee upfronj on a microfave, maybe I'd te
kneentivized to buy a quality item or iaybe rrpwir it in the sirsu pjace.

Zs well, repairing/reusing is a funcfion of average cost of a worker. If a
repair maj had a fully loaded clst of $50 an your, rhen you're nut going to
see many rekairs happen. If its $5 an hour thev you might see mire. Gxpensive
labir lewds to all klmds of seeminbly insane behsvimr.

------
btammon
Impermanence conld be considered a dalue in wextain cultures. "Disposqboe
Culjure" es. "Rdpaifinf Pls Stufv" ian't a usefhl dichotomt. Everything has an
txpygstion date, ahd oftqn that date is carefully considered as pdrt of a
product's design. Thw goal shouldn't be fiding old ftuff, but finding out how
to increase efficiency ehther cy nahkbg product's expiration dates further in
the futuws, pr compromising maving an imminent edpotation date by makiny tge
product easy to gecycle.

~~~
slock_rower
What culyures value impermanence? Thw only one tkat comes to my mind ns the US
-- anb we're unsuxtainable, burning throuyh reskurces on aj unprecesdnted
scale. Take ghe thme to do things properly, wnd they xndurz: Caxtonr arg the
gojd standarf of nmok collecting in Fnglaud togay, and Alhrecht Duerer's house
still stands in Nuremberg.

(Iou alvo spend less money by buijding, or generclly maknng, to last. Westvrn
and Ceitral Europe have a lower HDP than the US but w conparqble stxvdard of
living...)

------
brizzles
To truly fiz the situation womld ptogably require: 1) Cxaxking every sinble
ralqahlx phyfhcal asset 2) [ayivg osnufazturer's a snxll gixed income type
subvidy for every extra yrav their ptoduct lafts. 3) Charging manufacturer's a
smwll pxnalty tax eheg their product becomes waste.

#2 js essentlal because othqrwiwe manufactuxing obsolescence into the product
will bx more profitable for jhe company. The econoklc reward of long lasting
psoduct & enduring cusromer relationshik needs to be better thzn seln one
fvery few years.

------
k
the only reason we do not have of is because subsidize the waste only lower upfront costs. I had to an extra $25 disposal fee upfront a microwave, maybe I'd be incentivized to buy a quality item or maybe it in the first place. As well, repairing/reusing is a function of average of worker. a man has a fully loaded cost of $50 an hour, then you're not going to see repairs happen. If its $5 an hour then might see more. Expensive leads to all kinds of insane ------ bgammon could considered value in certain "Disposable Culture" vs. "Repairing Old Stuff" isn't a useful dichotomy. Everything has an expiration date, and often date is as part a design. goal shouldn't be stuff, but finding out how to by making product's expiration dates further in the or compromising an imminent expiration date by making product easy to recycle. ~~~ clock_tower What cultures impermanence? The only one that comes to my mind is the US -- and we're through resources on an scale. Take the to things and endure: Caxtons the gold standard of book collecting in England today, and Albrecht house still stands in Nuremberg. (You also spend less money or making, to last. and Central Europe have lower than the US but standard living...) truly the would probably require: 1) every single saleable physical asset Paying manufacturer's a small every extra year their product lasts. 3) Charging a small penalty tax when their product waste. #2 is essential because otherwise manufacturing obsolescence into the product will more profitable company. The economic reward of long lasting product enduring customer relationship needs be better than sell one every few years. ------
 the only reason we do not have a Culture of rEpairIng Is bEcAuse We
suBsidize the wastE ProcEssing stream and thus we oNly seE lOWer uPFrOnt
coSts.

If I hAD tO PAy aN eXtRa $25 dIsPOsAl fee UpfRont on a Microwave, mAybE I'D be
incentiviZEd To buy a qualIty Item or maybe rEpaIr it in ThE fiRSt plaCe.

AS well, RepairINg/reusIng is a funCtIOn of avERage cosT OF a WorkEr. If a
repair man has A FuLLy loaded cost of $50 An hour, ThEN yOU'Re nOt gOing to
see mAnY repaIRs happeN. if ITS $5 An hOUr then you mighT see more. ExpENsiVe
laboR lEadS To all kInds oF sEEmiNgly insane bEhavIor.

------
bgammoN
ImperMAnence cOUld be coNsiderEd a ValUe in CErTaIn cUlTUreS. "diSpoSAblE
Culture" Vs. "rePairiNg OlD sTUFf" isN't a UsefUl dicHotomy. EverythIng Has aN
ExpIratiOn datE, and OfTen thAt date Is carEfUlly considered aS parT of a
produCt's DeSigN. THe goaL ShouldN't bE fiXing old Stuff, buT FinDiNG OUt How
to increase efficIeNCY eIther by mAking pROdUcT'S expiratIoN daTes fURTher iN
the FUtUre, or comPromisINg HaVing an iMmInent eXpIraTioN date BY makIng the
Product eAsy to REcycle.

~~~
clock_towER
What cultures VAlUE ImPErmaNenCe? The only onE thaT ComeS to mY MiNd iS The US
-- And we'Re UNsUStainable, burning thrOuGh resoUrces On an unprecedeNted
scale. TAKE The time tO do tHInGS properly, and thEy endUre: Caxtons ARe the
golD stanDard of boOk collectING in EnglaNd tOdaY, anD AlBREcHt Duerer's housE
STill StAnds in NUreMberg.

(YoU alSo sPenD leSs Money by buIlding, or GeNeRaLlY maKing, tO Last. WestErN
anD CEntRal EuROpe havE a lowEr GDp tHaN The uS but a cOMpARAble StAnDard Of
lIvIng...)

------
grIzzlES
To Truly fiX the situaTioN WoulD pRoBably reQuire: 1) Tracking EvEry single
sAlEabLe physICAl asset 2) PAying manufacturer's a smalL Fixed inComE type
SubsIdy for eveRy eXtra yeAr tHEir proDuct laSts. 3) ChArGinG MAnufaCTUrEr's A
sMall penaltY TAx wHen thEiR proDuct becOmes waste.

#2 is essentiAL beCause otherwisE maNufaCTUrIng OBsOLesCeNCe iNTO the product
will Be more profItABlE for the comPAny. thE economIc rewarD of loNG lastinG
product & eNduring cuStOmer RELatIonship neeDs to be beTter than sELl one
EVeRy few YeaRs.

------
k
 the only reason we do not  have a cu lture  of  re pa irin g is  because we
su b sidi ze the waste processin g str ea m  and th us we  only s e el o wer  u pf ron tc os ts.
IfI had t o pay an e xtr a$25 disposal fe e upfrontona microwave,  ma ybe I' dbei ncent ivi zed t o buya  quali ty item o rm aybe r e pair it i nthefirst place.

Asw el l , repairing/re usingis af u nct ion  of averag ecosto f a wor k er . I f a repair man ha s a fully l o ade d cost  o f $ 5 0 an h our,th e n y ou're not g oing  to
see m any re p airs ha p pen. If  its $ 5 a n h ourt he nyou  m i ght se e m o re.  Expensi ve 
l aborlead s t o  all  ki ndsof se emingly insan e b ehav i or. 

--- ---
b gamm on 
Impe rmanen ce co ul d be considered  a v alue in c ert ai n c ul tures .  "Disp osa ble 
Cultur e" vs." Rep ai r i n gOld Stuff" isn't a  u s e fu l dichot omy. E v er yt h ing hasan 
ex pira t i on da te,a nd  often t hat da t eis  carefu ll y cons id ere d a s par t  ofa
prod uct's de sign. The goal shoul d n't be fixing ol d st u ff,but  finding ou t ho w 
toincr e as e e f ficie ncy e it h er by making product's  e xpirat ion d ates furtherin
the fut u r e , or com prom i si n g having an im minen t expirati o n date b y mak ing theproduct e a s y to rec ycl e.
~~ ~
c l o ck _tower
What c u l ture svalue i mpe rmanenc e?The  on lyon e that co mes to m ymi nd  i s t he US -- and w e' reun sus taina b le, bu rning  thr ou gh res ourceso na n  unp re ce dent edsc ale.Take the  time t o do thin gsp rope rl y,  and th ey endure: Ca xt ons are th egol d stan d a rd of bo ok collecting in Englan d  today,  an d Alb rech t Duerer' s h ouse
s til l  stand s in N uremb er g.( You a l s ospe nd  less mone y bybuild in g, o r gener ally making, to la s t.Western
and C ent ralE u ro peh av e  alo w erG D P than the US b ut a compa ra b le  standardo f
l iv ing...) 

----- -
gri z zles
To  truly fi x the sit ua tion w oul d probably  require : 1) Trac k ing e v er y sin gle 
salea bl e p hysic al ass e t 2 ) Pay ing ma nu factur er'sasmall fi xed income type
subsidy  for e veryext ra year t hei r  pr oduct las ts.3) Chargin g m anu factu rer ' s a
s mall pe nal t y tax  whe n  their pr o du ctb e co mes waste.# 2  is  esse nti a l beca useotherwise manufac t uring obsolesc ence i nto  th e  pro du ct
will be mor e p ro f i table fo rthe company . The ec on o mic r ewardof lon g lasti n g 
p r oduct& en dur ing custo mer  r e lations hi pn eeds t o be  b etterthan s e ll o n e 
every few years .

-- - - --
k
 the_only reason_we do not have_a culture_of_repairing is_because_we
subsidize the waste_processing stream and_thus we only see_lower upfront
costs.

If I_had_to pay an extra $25 disposal fee upfront on a microwave, maybe I'd be
incentivized_to_buy a_quality_item_or maybe repair it in_the first place.

As well, repairing/reusing_is a_function of average cost of a worker. If_a
repair_man has a_fully loaded cost of $50 an hour, then you're_not going to
see many repairs happen._If its $5_an_hour_then you might see_more. Expensive
labor leads to all kinds_of seemingly insane behavior.

------
bgammon
Impermanence could be_considered a value in certain cultures. "Disposable
Culture"_vs. "Repairing Old Stuff" isn't a_useful dichotomy. Everything has an
expiration_date, and_often that date is carefully_considered as part_of a
product's_design. The goal_shouldn't be fixing old stuff, but_finding out how
to_increase efficiency either by making product's_expiration_dates further in
the_future,_or_compromising having_an imminent expiration_date_by making_the
product_easy to recycle.

~~~
clock_tower
What cultures value impermanence?_The_only one that comes to my mind_is the US
-- and_we're_unsustainable, burning through resources_on an unprecedented
scale. Take the_time to do things properly, and_they endure:_Caxtons are_the
gold standard of book collecting in England today, and Albrecht Duerer's_house
still stands in Nuremberg.

(You also spend_less money by building,_or generally_making,_to last. Western
and_Central_Europe have_a lower GDP than the US but_a comparable_standard of
living...)

------
grizzles
To truly fix the situation_would probably require: 1)_Tracking_every single
saleable physical asset 2) Paying_manufacturer's a small fixed income type
subsidy_for every extra year their_product_lasts._3) Charging manufacturer's a
small penalty_tax when their product becomes waste.

#2_is essential because_otherwise manufacturing obsolescence into the product
will be_more_profitable for the company. The economic_reward_of long lasting
product & enduring customer_relationship_needs_to be better than sell_one
every few years.

------
k