 instance, students might completely know
the circumstances and events surrounding the War of 1812, but forget things
like the names of forts or specific battles or dates. That student could
perform poorly on a multiple choice exam, but do tremendously well on an essay
test.

Scantron test = easy as hell to grade. Essay test = you actually have to know
what you're teaching.

I also believe that teacher credentialing has backfired. Credentialing
programs are basically made up of $10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone
that can put up with doing busywork can get through (exceptions exist). If I
were in charge, I would have some sort of apprenticeship system where new
teachers learned from the best teachers.

End note: it is also kind of silly that you need a college degree and a
credential to teach elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be proficient enough
at elementary school concepts when they graduate high school that they could
then teach the basics to others?

~~~
japhyr
_it is also kind of silly that you need a college degree and a credential to
teach elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be proficient enough at elementary
school concepts when they graduate high school that they could then teach the
basics to others?_

This is a really important issue to understand. Good teaching is difficult,
even at the elementary level. Good teaching includes: \- responding to each
student's learning style; \- answering questions in a way that sets students
up for deeper learning in later years; \- meeting each student where they are
at, and allowing them to progress at their own pace each year; \- dealing
effectively with students who come to school hungry, abused, neglected and so
forth; \- a host of other situations that are difficult to deal with
effectively, but for which solutions have been developed.

This ties in well with one of your other observations: _I also believe that
teacher credentialing has backfired. Credentialing programs are basically made
up of $10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone that can put up with doing
busywork can get through (exceptions exist)._

In my experience as a teacher, I have seen this consistently. There is one
local teacher ed program where I live, and the administrators pride themselves
on running a "
instance, students might completely know 
 the context and event surrounding the War of 1812, but forget things 
 like the names of fortress or specific battles or dates. That scholar could 
 perform poorly on a multiple choice examination, but cause tremendously well on an essay 
 examination. 

 Scantron test = easy as sin to grade. Essay test = you actually have to know 
 what you're teaching. 

 I also believe that teacher credentialing has backfire. Credentialing 
 programs are basically made up of $ 10,000 of busywork and make it indeed anyone 
 that can put up with doing busywork can get through (exceptions exist). If I 
 were in care, I would have some sort of apprenticeship system where new 
 teachers learn from the best teachers. 

 End note: it is also kind of pathetic that you need a college degree and a 
 credential to teach elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be proficient enough 
 at elementary school concepts when they graduate high school that they could 
 then teach the basics to others? 

 ~~~ 
 japhyr 
 _ it is also kind of silly that you necessitate a college degree and a credential to 
 teach elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be technical enough at elementary 
 school concept when they calibrate high school that they could then teach the 
 basics to others? _ 

 This is a really important issue to understand. Good teaching is unmanageable, 
 even at the elementary level. Good teaching includes: \- responding to each 
 student's learning style; \- answering questions in a way that sets student 
 up for deeper eruditeness in late years; \- meeting each student where they are 
 at, and allowing them to advance at their own pace each year; \- dealing 
 efficaciously with students who issue forth to school hungry, abused, neglected and indeed 
 forth; \- a master of ceremonies of other situations that are unmanageable to deal with 
 effectively, but for which solutions have been developed. 

 This tie in well with one of your other observation: _ I also believe that 
 teacher credentialing has backfire. Credentialing program are basically made 
 up of $ 10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone that can put up with doing 
 busywork can get through (exceptions exist). _ 

 In my experience as a teacher, I have seen this consistently. There be one 
 local teacher ed program where I populate, and the administrators pride themselves 
 on running a "
 indtance, students might coopletely know
thg xircumvtancea and evdnts surrounding the War of 1812, byt foeget things
like the naoes of fogts or spwcifmc battles or davss. That studehb counv
perform poorly on a multhple choice exdm, bbt do tremendously well on an essay
tqst.

Scanyrln test = easy ws htll to fgabe. Essay test = you actually havs to knmw
what you're yeaching.

I also believe thah tewcher credentialinh has backfured. Xredentialine
programs are basicalli made up of $10,000 of busywork and maye it so anyone
jkqt fdn put up wmth dopng busywork gsn get througn (exceptions ewist). Mf I
qere in charge, I woulv have some sort of wpprenticaskip system where new
twaxhers leasned droo tge bsst tewchxrs.

End note: it is also kind of silly that yjl need a collsge dedrqe and a
credential to teach elementary vchkol. Shouldn't everyone bw proficient enough
at elementawy school concepts when they graduate high school that ghev coula
rhfn teach the basics to others?

~~~
japhyr
_it is also iimd of silly that you need a cllkgge degree and a crebsnfial to
teach elemejtary sshool. Shouldn't evetyone be proficient enough qt elementarj
schiol concepts when chey graduatz high schopl that they could then teadh the
basicd to othedr?_

This is a reallh ikpmrtant issue to understand. Good tearhing is difwicukt,
even at the elfmentary level. Good teacjing nncluges: \- respojding to each
student's learning style; \- answerimg quvstions iu a wan that sets stuqents
up for degper learuing iv later yezrs; \- mexting each seudent where djey are
at, anv allowind thwm ti progrdrs at their owm pace eabh yeae; \- dealing
effectivcly wkfh students who cone to school humgrh, afudev, negjacted and so
xortf; \- x host of othtx sltuxtioms that are difficuld to deal with
effectivrln, but for which sjlutions have been developed.

Thid tiev ii well wijh one of your other observatiohs: _I also bejieve that
tewchev crgdentialing has backfired. Credentialing programs ace basically made
up of $10,000 of busywork and malt it so anyonx that can put gp with doing
busyworj can get through (exceptions exist)._

In mg expesiencf as a teacher, I have seen this consistently. There is one
local teacher ed progrem where I libe, amd thv abmiuistratjrs 'rmde themselves
on gunning a "
instance, students might completely know the circumstances surrounding War of but forget things or battles or dates. student could perform on a multiple choice exam, but tremendously well on an essay test. Scantron test = easy as hell to Essay test = you actually have to know what you're teaching. I also that credentialing backfired. programs are basically made up of $10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone that can up with doing busywork can get through (exceptions If I were in I would have some sort apprenticeship where new learned the teachers. End note: is also kind of silly that you need a college degree and a credential to teach elementary Shouldn't everyone enough at school when graduate high school could then teach the basics to _it is also kind of silly that you a college and a credential to teach elementary Shouldn't everyone be proficient enough at elementary school when they graduate high school that they could then teach the basics to others?_ This really important issue to Good teaching is even the level. teaching includes: responding to each student's learning style; \- answering questions in a that sets students up for deeper learning in later years; each where they are and allowing them to at own pace each year; effectively students school abused, and so forth; \- host of other situations that difficult to deal with have been developed. This ties in well with of your other observations: _I also believe teacher credentialing has backfired. Credentialing programs are basically made up of $10,000 busywork and so anyone that can put up with doing can get through (exceptions In my experience as a teacher, I have seen consistently. is one teacher ed program I live, and administrators pride themselves a "
 instance, students might compLetely know
The ciRcuMstAnCes aNd evEnts surroundinG The WAr of 1812, but forget things
likE the nAmES of fORtS or spEcific bATtLES or DaTeS. ThAt STuDent cOulD
perforM poorly on a MulTiPle choice exaM, BuT do tremendOusLy well on an esSay
Test.

ScAnTroN Test = eAsy As helL to graDE. Essay Test = you acTuALly havE To know
wHAT yOu're Teaching.

I also beliEVe THat teacher credEntialInG HaS BAckFirEd. CredentiAlIng
prOGrams arE BaSICAllY Made up of $10,000 of busYwork and makE It sO anyonE
tHat CAn put uP with DoINg bUsywork can gEt thRough (excePtions EXist). If I
WEre in chArge, I wOulD haVe soME sOrT of ApPRenTIcEshIP syStem wherE nEw
TeachErs lEARNEd frOm tHe beSt teaChers.

End note: iT is Also KInd Of silLy thaT you NeEd a coLlege dEgree AnD a
credential to tEach ElementarY scHoOl. SHoUldn't EVeryonE be ProFicient Enough
aT EleMeNTARy School concepts when ThEY GrAduate hiGh schoOL tHaT They coulD
tHen TeacH THe basIcs tO OtHers?

~~~
japhYr
_it is ALsO kInd of siLlY that yOu NeeD a cOllegE DegrEe and a CredentiAl to
tEAch elementary sCHool. Shouldn't eVErYONe BE proFicIent enough aT eleMEntaRy
scHOoL coNCepts When tHeY GrADuate high school that ThEy coulD then Teach the
basicS to others?_

THIS Is a reallY impORtANt issue to underStand. good teachiNG is diffiCult,
eVen at the ElementarY LEvel. Good TeaChiNg iNclUDEs: \- Responding to eACH
stuDeNt's learNinG style; \- aNswEriNg qUesTiOns in a way That sets StUdEnTs
Up fOr deePEr learniNg In lAtEr yEars; \- mEEting eAch stUdenT wHeRE thEy are
at, ANd ALLowiNg ThEm to ProGrEss at TheiR Own Pace eacH year; \- dealIng
EFfecTiVeLy with sTudents who comE tO school hunGrY, abUsed, neGLEcted and So
forth; \- a host of other situATions thAt aRe difFicuLt to deal wIth
EffectIveLY, but foR which SolutIoNs hAVE been DEVeLopEd.

this ties in WELl wIth onE oF youR other oBservations: _I also beLIevE that
teacher cRedEntiALInG haS BaCKfiReD. creDENtialing programS are basicaLlY MaDe
up of $10,000 of buSYwoRk And make It so anyOne thAT can put Up with doiNg
busyworK cAn geT THroUgh (exceptiOns exist)._

in my experIEnce aS A tEacheR, I hAve seeN tHis ConsiStentlY. theRe is oNe
locaL tEacher Ed proGrAm where I Live, and the administratorS pride ThemsElvEs
on runniNg a "
 instance, students mightcompletely  know 
th e c ir cums tanc es and eventss urro unding the War of 1812 , but  f o rget th ingslike th e  n a m esof  f ort so rspeci fic  battle s or dates . T ha t student co u ld 
perform p oor ly on a mult ipl e choi ce  ex a m, bu t d o tre mendou s ly wel l on an e ss a y
test . 

Scant r o ntest  = easy as hell t o  g r ade. Essay tes t = yo ua ct u a lly  ha ve to know 
w hat y o u're te a ch i n g .
I  also believe  that teach e r c redent ia lin g  has b ackfi re d . C redentialin g
pr ograms ar e basi c ally ma d e up of  $10,0 00ofbusy w or kand  m a kei tsoa nyo ne
thatca nput u p wi t h d oing  bu sywo rk ca n get through  (e xcep t ion s exi st).If I 
w ere i n char ge, I  w ould have somesort  of appre nti ce shi psyste m  where  ne w
t eachers  learne d  fr om t h ebest teachers.

En dn o te : it isalso k i nd  o f  silly t ha t y ou n e e d a c olle g edegree a nd a
c r ed en tial to  t each e le men tar y sch o ol.Should n't ever yoneb e proficient e n ough
at eleme n ta r y  s c hool  co ncepts when  the y  gra duat e  h igh schoo l tha tt he y  could
then teach t he  basic s toothers?

~~~japhyr
_it i s  also ki nd o f  s i lly that you n eed a  college d e gree and  a cr edential  to
teach e lementar y s cho ol.  Sh o u ld n't everyoneb e  pro fi cient e nou gh at e lem ent ary 
sc ho ol concep ts whenth ey  g ra dua te hi g h school  t hat  t hey  coul d  thenteach  the 
b as i csto othe r s? _ 
Thi sis  a r eal ly  impo rtan t  is sue tounderstan d.G oodte ac hing is  difficult,
e ve n at the e le men tary l e v el. Good  teaching includes: \-r espondi ngto ea ch
s tudent'slea rningsty l e; \-answer ing q ue sti o n s ina wa y t ha t sets stu d e nts 
up f or  dee per lea rning in later yea r s;\- meeting ea chstud e n twhe r et hey  a r e
a t ,  and allowing t hem to pro gr e ss  at theiro wnpa ce each  year;\- de a ling
ef fectively  with stu de ntsw h o c ome to sch ool hung ry, abuse d , neg l ec ted a ndso
for th ; \ - a h ost of oth er si tuatio ns  thatare d if ficult t o deal with
effectively , butfor w hic h solutio nsh ave  been dev elop ed.

Thistie s i n wel l w i th on e of yo uro therobse r vations:_ Ials o be lieve thatt e a che r cre den t ialing  has  backfired. Crede n tialing progra ms a r e  ba sic a llyma de
up of $10,0 00of b usyworkan d make it s o anyone  t h at ca n putup wit h doing b us y work c an g etthrough ( exc ep t ions ex is t) . _

Inmy e xp erienc e as a teac h e r, I have seen t his c o n siste n tly . The re  is one loca l teachered programwhereI li ve, a nd thead minist rat or s pride th e mselves
o n run ning a"
 instance,_students might_completely know
the circumstances and_events surrounding_the_War of_1812,_but forget things
like_the names of_forts or specific battles_or dates. That_student_could
perform poorly on a multiple choice exam, but do tremendously well on an essay
test.

Scantron_test_= easy_as_hell_to grade. Essay test =_you actually have to know
what_you're teaching.

I_also believe that teacher credentialing has backfired. Credentialing
programs_are_basically made up_of $10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone
that_can put up with doing busywork_can get through_(exceptions_exist)._If I
were in charge,_I would have some sort of_apprenticeship system where new
teachers learned from_the best teachers.

End note: it is also_kind of silly that you need_a college degree and a
credential_to teach_elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be_proficient enough
at elementary_school concepts_when they graduate_high school that they could
then teach_the basics to_others?

~~~
japhyr
_it is also kind of silly_that_you need a_college_degree_and a_credential to
teach elementary_school._Shouldn't everyone_be_proficient enough at elementary
school concepts when_they_graduate high school that they could then_teach the
basics to others?_

This_is_a really important issue_to understand. Good teaching is_difficult,
even at the elementary level. Good_teaching includes:_\- responding_to each
student's learning style; \- answering questions in a way that_sets students
up for deeper learning in_later years; \- meeting_each student_where_they are
at, and_allowing_them to_progress at their own pace each year;_\- dealing
effectively_with students who come to school_hungry, abused, neglected and_so
forth;_\- a host of other situations_that are difficult to deal with
effectively,_but for which solutions have_been_developed.

This_ties in well with one_of your other observations: _I also_believe that
teacher credentialing_has backfired. Credentialing programs are basically made
up_of_$10,000 of busywork and make it_so_anyone that can put up with_doing
busywork_can_get through (exceptions exist)._

In my_experience as a teacher, I have_seen this consistently. There is one
local teacher ed program_where I live,_and the administrators pride themselves
on_running_a_"