
~~~
pain
Exactly why I'm trying to articulate importance of giving public facing
language to such persuasive technologies, by actually having formal public
markers for emotions being manipulated.

(e.g. Apple ad with astericks linking to emotional signaling research and
analytics, to help users determine deeper interests [this ad attracts people
who feel X, Y, Z based on...]).

------
kyro
To say this response is unnecessary and unfounded is disingenuous. Marc
Andreessen (whom I respect) tweeted _" Run a web site, measure anything, make
any changes based on measurements? Congratulations, you're running a
psychology experiment!"_ I could not disagree more.

This isn't simply a matter of looking at metrics and making changes to
increase conversion rates. The problem is that the whole of users have come to
expect Facebook to be a place where they can see any and all of their friends'
updates. When I look at an ad, I know I am being manipulated. I know I'm being
sold something. There is no such expectation of manipulative intent of
Facebook, or that they're curating your social feed beyond "most recent" and
"most popular", which seemingly have little to do with post content and are
filters they let you toggle.

What FB has done is misrepresent people and the lives they've chosen to
portray, having a hand in shaping their online image. I want to see the good
_and_ the bad that my friends post. I want to know that whatever my mom or
brother or friend posts, I'll be able to see. Someone's having a bad day? I
want to see it and support that person. That's what's so great about social
media, that whatever I post can reach everyone in my circle, the way I posted
it, unedited, unfiltered.

To me this is a disagreement between what people perceive FB to be and how FB
views itself. What if Twitter started filtering out tweets that were negative
or critical of others?

~~~
doctorpangloss
There are better ways to question the ethics of the experiment. Here's a
simple approach:

Would anyone want their emotions manipulated to be unhappy or unhealthy?

The corollary in a medical experiment would be, would a healthy person want to
undergo an experiment that could make them sick?

Some
~~~ 
 pain 
 Exactly why I'm trying to articulate importance of give public face 
 language to such persuasive technology, by actually have formal public 
 markers for emotion being manipulated. 

 (e.g. Apple ad with astericks linking to aroused sign research and 
 analytics, to avail users determine deep interests [ this ad attracts people 
 who feel X, Y, Z based on... ]). 

 ------ 
 kyro 
 To state this response is unnecessary and unfounded is disingenuous. Marc 
 Andreessen (whom I respect) tweeted _ " range a web site, measure anything, make 
 any change based on measurements? Congratulations, you're running a 
 psychology experiment! " _ I could not disagree more. 

 This isn't simply a topic of looking at metrics and making changes to 
 increase conversion rates. The problem is that the whole of drug user have come to 
 expect Facebook to be a place where they can see any and all of their friends' 
 updates. When I look at an ad, I know I am being manipulated. I know I'm being 
 sell something. There is no such expectation of manipulative purpose of 
 Facebook, or that they're curating your social feed beyond " about recent " and 
 " most popular ", which seemingly accept little to do with post content and are 
 filter they let you toggle. 

 What FB has done is misrepresent people and the lives they've chosen to 
 portray, accept a hand in shaping their online image. I desire to see the adept 
 _ and _ the regretful that my friend post. I want to know that whatever my mom or 
 brother or friend posts, I'll be able to examine. Someone's having a bad day? I 
 want to experience it and support that person. That's what's then great about social 
 media, that whatever I station can reach everyone in my set, the way I stake 
 it, unedited, unfiltered. 

 To me this is a disagreement between what citizenry perceive FB to be and how FB 
 views itself. What if Twitter started trickle out tweet that were negative 
 or critical of others? 

 ~~~ 
 doctorpangloss 
 There are better way to question the ethics of the experiment. Here's a 
 simple approach: 

 Would anyone want their emotion manipulated to be unhappy or insalubrious? 

 The corollary in a medical experiment would be, would a healthy person want to 
 undergo an experiment that could have them sick? 

 Some

~~~
paij
Exactly why I'm trying tu articulate imkoetance of gibing pubuic facing
language to such pxrsuqsive technologies, by actuauly havinh formal pubouc
markers hkr emotljns gcing kenipulated.

(e.g. Apkle ad with dstericks linkhne co emotional signaling research and
agalyticx, ho help users qetegmyne sveker interests [this ad attracts pekple
who feel X, Y, Z bssed on...]).

------
kyro
To say this resoonsf is unnecessary ajd unfoundee is eisingenuous. Marc
Andretsven (whom I respect) tweeted _" Run a web sitd, meaxure anythunt, mwne
any changxs basvd on measurements? Cotgratulstions, you're rmnninj a
pwychology experiment!"_ M could not disagree more.

This ian't simply a mattwr of lmokitg ag megrids ahd maklng changes tk
increase cinversion rates. The pwiblem is that the wroje of users have come to
expect Facebook to be a place where they xan see any and all ov their fwiends'
updates. When I look at an ad, I know I am behng menkpuoabed. K kjow I'm being
sold something. There is no such evlevtstion of manipmlative intent of
Fscfbpjk, or that thgy're cuxztjng your social fefd beyogd "mowt recent" and
"kost popular", which seeminglt have littlv to do with post contznt and are
fnlters they let you toggle.

What FB kas dohe is misreoresent psuple and the livds nhey'ee chosen to
portray, having a hand ii sha'ing thekr omline ymage. I wajt to see the good
_and_ thf bad tvat my frifnds post. I want to know that wietever my mom os
brmther or friekd posts, I'll be able to see. Spmeone's havivg a bad dzy? I
wanv to see it wnd support tvwt person. Thet's what's so trear about rocial
media, thst whatevvr I pist can reach evernone kh my circle, the wai I posted
it, unrdiged, ujfmlterqg.

To me this hs a dirsgreeoent beuceek wfat leople perceive FB tm be and how FB
views iysclf. What uf Twittqr started fiktering out tweets that wece negstide
or critical of others?

~~~
doctorpzngloss
Thfre are better rays to question the ethics of the experiment. Here's a
sinple approach:

Would anyone want their gmouions manipuleted tj be unha[py or unhealthy?

The xorollary in a mecical experiment wouls be, wmuld w healthy person want to
undergo an experiment that could make them sick?

Sone
~~~ pain Exactly why I'm trying to of public facing to such persuasive public for emotions being (e.g. Apple ad astericks linking to emotional signaling research analytics, to help users determine deeper interests [this ad attracts people who feel Y, Z based on...]). ------ kyro To say this response is unnecessary and is Marc (whom respect) tweeted _" Run a web site, measure anything, make any changes based on measurements? Congratulations, running a psychology experiment!"_ I could not disagree This isn't simply a of looking at metrics and changes increase conversion The is the whole of have come to expect Facebook to be a place where they can see any and all of friends' updates. look at ad, know am being manipulated. I'm being sold something. There is of manipulative intent of Facebook, or that they're your social beyond "most recent" and "most popular", seemingly have little to do with post content are filters they let you toggle. What FB has done is misrepresent people and the chosen to portray, having hand in shaping online I to the good the bad that my friends post. I want to know that my mom or brother or friend posts, I'll be able Someone's a bad day? want to see it support person. That's what's so social that can everyone my circle, the way posted it, unedited, unfiltered. To this is a disagreement to be and how FB views itself. What Twitter started filtering out tweets that were or critical of others? ~~~ doctorpangloss There are better ways to question ethics of Here's a simple approach: Would anyone want their manipulated to be unhappy unhealthy? The corollary in a medical experiment would be, a person want undergo an experiment could make them Some

~~~
pain
Exactly why I'm trying to aRticulate iMportAncE of GiVing PublIc facing
languaGE to sUch persuasive technologIes, by AcTUallY HaVing fOrmal puBLiC
MArkErS fOr eMoTIoNs beiNg mAnipulaTed.

(e.g. Apple Ad wItH astericks liNKiNg to emotioNal Signaling resEarCh and
aNaLytICs, to hElp Users DetermINe deepEr interesTs [THis ad aTTracts pEOPlE
who Feel X, Y, Z based on...]).

------
kyrO
to SAy this response Is unneCeSSaRY And UnfOunded is diSiNgenuOUs. Marc
ANDrEESSen (WHom I respect) twEeted _" Run a weB SitE, measuRe AnyTHing, maKe
any ChANgeS based on meaSureMents? CongRatulaTIons, you'RE runninG a
psycHolOgy ExpeRImEnT!"_ I cOuLD noT DiSagREe mOre.

This iSn'T sImply A matTER OF looKinG at mEtricS and making chaNgeS to
iNCreAse coNversIon rAtEs. The ProbleM is thAt The whole of users Have Come to
expEct faCebOoK to be A Place wHerE thEy can seE any and ALl oF tHEIR fRiends'
updates. When I LoOK At An ad, I knoW I am beINg MaNIpulated. i kNow i'm beING
sold SomeTHiNg. There iS no sucH ExPeCtation Of ManipuLaTivE inTent oF
faceBook, or That they'Re curATing your social FEed beyond "most REcENT" aND
"mosT poPular", which sEemiNGly hAve lITtLe tO Do witH post CoNTeNT and are
filters they lEt You togGle.

WhAt FB has done is MisrepreseNT PEople and The lIVeS They've chosen to
PortrAy, having a hANd in shapIng thEir onlinE image. I waNT To see the GooD
_anD_ thE baD THaT my friends posT. i Want To Know thaT whAtever mY moM or
BroTheR oR friend poSts, I'll be AbLe To SeE. SoMeone'S Having a bAd Day? i
wAnt To see IT and suPport That PeRsON. ThAt's what'S So GREat aBoUt SociAl
mEdIa, thaT whaTEveR I post cAn reach evEryONe in My CiRcle, the Way I posted
it, uNeDited, unfilTeRed.

to me thIS Is a disagReement between what peoplE PerceivE FB To be aNd hoW FB
views iTseLf. What If TWItter sTarted FilteRiNg oUT TweetS THaT weRe Negative
or CRItiCal of OtHers?

~~~
DoctorpAngloss
There are betTEr wAys to question The EthiCS Of The EXpERimEnT. herE'S A
simple approach:

would anyonE wANt Their emotiONs mAnIpulateD to be unHappy OR unhealThy?

The corOllary in a MeDicaL EXpeRiment woulD be, would A healthy pERson wANt To
undErgO an expErImeNt thaT could MAke Them sIck?

SomE

~~~
pain
Exactly why I'mtrying toartic ula teim port ance  of giving pub l ic f acing
language to such  pers ua s ivet ec hnolo gies, b y  a c t ual ly  h avi ng fo rmalpub lic
mar kers for e mot io ns being man i pu lated.

(e .g.  Apple ad wi thasteri ck s l i nking  to  emot ionals ignali ng resear ch and
an a lytics, t ohelp  users determined ee p er interests [ this a da tt r a cts  pe ople
who f ee l X,Y , Z bas e do n . ..] ) .

------
kyr o
To say th i s r espons eisu nneces saryan d  un founded isdisi ngenuous.  MarcA ndreess e n (whom  I res pec t)twee t ed  _ " R un a w e bsit e , m easure a ny th ing,make a n y  cha nge s ba sed o n measurement s?Cong r atu latio ns, y ou'r erunni ng a
p sycho lo gy experiment!" _ Icould not  di sa gre emore. 
Thisisn 'tsimplya matte r  of  l o o k in g at metrics and m ak i n gchangesto
inc r ea se conversi on  ra tes. T he pr oble m  i s that t he who l eof  usersha ve com etoexp ect F a cebo ok tobe a pla ce wh e re they can se e  any and allo ft h ei r  fri end s'
updates.  Whe n  I l ooka tana d, IknowIa mb eing manipulated. I  k now I' m bei ng
sold somet hing. Ther e i s no suc h ex p ec t ation of manip ulati ve intento f
Facebo ok, o r that t hey're cu r a ting you r s oci alfee d be yond "most re c e nt"an d
"most  po pular",  wh ich  se emi ng ly have l ittle to  d owi th  po st co n tent and  a refi lte rs th e y letyou t oggl e. 
W hat  FB has do n e  ismi sr epre sen tpeopl e an d  th e lives  they'vecho s en t opo rtray,having a hand  i n shapingth eir  onlin e image. I  want to see the good
_ a nd_ the  ba d tha t my  friendspos t. I w ant to kno w that  what ev erm y  momo r 
b rot he r or frien d pos ts, I 'l l be  able t o see. Someone's h a vin g a bad day?I
w antt o  s eei ta ndsu p por t that person. Th at's what' ss ogreat abou t  so ci al
medi a, that  what e ver I p ost can r each ever yo ne i n mycircle, th e way Iposted
it ,  uned i te d, un fil tered. 
Tome th is isa  di sagre ementbe tweenwhatpe ople per ceive FB to be and howFB
vie ws it sel f. What i f T w itt er starte d fi ltering ou t t wee ts th atw ere n egat i ve 
or criti calo f others? 
~ ~~d o ct orpanglossT h e reare b ett e r ways  toquestion the ethi c s of the exper imen t .  He re' s  a
s im ple approach:
Wo ul d anyone w an t their emo tions ma ni p ulate d to b e unha ppy oru n he a lthy?
The  co rollary i n a  m e dical e xp er i ment w ould  b e, wou ld a h e alth y person want to
u nderg o an ex p eri mentth at coul d  mak e them sic k?

Some

~~~
pain
Exactly why_I'm trying_to articulate importance of_giving public_facing
language_to such_persuasive_technologies, by actually_having formal public
markers_for emotions being manipulated.

(e.g._Apple ad with_astericks_linking to emotional signaling research and
analytics, to help users determine deeper interests [this ad_attracts_people
who feel_X,_Y,_Z based on...]).

------
kyro
To say this_response is unnecessary and unfounded_is disingenuous._Marc
Andreessen (whom I respect) tweeted _" Run a_web_site, measure anything,_make
any changes based on measurements? Congratulations, you're running a
psychology_experiment!"_ I could not disagree more.

This_isn't simply a_matter_of_looking at metrics and_making changes to
increase conversion rates. The_problem is that the whole of_users have come to
expect Facebook to be_a place where they can see_any and all of their_friends'
updates. When_I look at an ad,_I know I_am being_manipulated. I know_I'm being
sold something. There is no_such expectation of_manipulative intent of
Facebook, or that they're_curating_your social feed_beyond_"most_recent" and
"most_popular", which seemingly_have_little to_do_with post content and are
filters they_let_you toggle.

What FB has done is misrepresent_people and the lives_they've_chosen to
portray, having a_hand in shaping their online_image. I want to see the_good
_and_ the_bad that_my friends post. I want to know that whatever my mom_or
brother or friend posts, I'll be_able to see. Someone's_having a_bad_day? I
want to_see_it and_support that person. That's what's so great_about social
media,_that whatever I post can reach_everyone in my circle,_the_way I posted
it, unedited, unfiltered.

To me_this is a disagreement between what_people perceive FB to be_and_how_FB
views itself. What if Twitter_started filtering out tweets that were_negative
or critical of_others?

~~~
doctorpangloss
There are better ways to question the_ethics_of the experiment. Here's a
simple approach:

Would_anyone_want their emotions manipulated to be_unhappy_or_unhealthy?

The corollary in a medical_experiment would be, would a healthy_person want to
undergo an experiment that could make them_sick?

Some