 degree
in that subject. The "at university you only study one" reflects the nature of
the British university system: rather than a hodge-podge of courses
culminating in a major, British students focus on a particular area from the
start -- other subjects are studied, but they don't rate separate examinations
or qualifications. It's a system based on specialization: narrow but deep
rather than broad but shallow.

Finally, anyone who went to Oxbridge having read that article and taking "nor
is workaholic study encouraged" at face value is going to be in for a very
nasty surprise...

~~~
regularfry
This is really noticeable if you go through A levels, then end up in a
university course with a high foreign student intake. The first year is almost
_entirely_ catch-up, as those who didn't do A levels get the content pumped
into them so that the course proper can start in the second year.

------
tomsaffell
Some of this resonates, but this does not:

 _Oxbridge’s teaching methods reward good talk_

In my experience, Cambridge University Engineering Department rewards those
who can _at age 19_ show _on paper_ a sound grasp of all branches of
engineering, from vector calculus, to materials science, to the physics of a
transistor, to thermo dynamics.

Those who can do both that, and also speak well, are often 'poached' into
consulting and banking, whereas those who can only do the former tend to
pursue more technical fields. But to blame that on Oxbridge seems unfair.

On an unrelated note: I've worked with many Oxbridge graduates of Humanities,
Classics (Greek, Latin) and English Literature - all of whom (by selection of
my firm's hiring process) are very numerate. I.e. the two are not mutually
exclusive.

~~~
sabraham
That said, I'm American, went to Oxford and am now at Cambridge, and I can
assure you that most Humanities graduates are shockingly innumerate--I
seriously doubt most Arts students given the Math SAT would be able to do more
than shake a stick at it. The best evidence is probably in PPE; the only
people who stick with E(conomics) did Math/s at A
degree 
 in that subject. The " at university you only study one " reflect the nature of 
 the British university arrangement: rather than a hodge - podge of courses 
 culminating in a major, British scholar focus on a particular sphere from the 
 start -- other subjects are analyze, but they don't rate separate examinations 
 or reservation. It's a system based on specialization: narrow-minded but deep 
 rather than broad but shallow. 

 Finally, anyone who went to Oxbridge having take that article and taking " nor 
 is workaholic study encouraged " at font value is going to be in for a very 
 nasty surprise... 

 ~~~ 
 regularfry 
 This is really noticeable if you rifle through A levels, then end up in a 
 university course with a high foreign student consumption. The first year is almost 
 _ entirely _ catch - up, as those who didn't do A levels get the content pumped 
 into them so that the course proper can start in the second year. 

 ------ 
 tomsaffell 
 Some of this resonates, but this does not: 

  _ Oxbridge ’s teaching methods honor good talk _ 

 In my experience, Cambridge University Engineering Department reward those 
 who can _ at age 19 _ show _ on paper _ a sound grip of all branches of 
 engineering, from vector calculus, to materials skill, to the physics of a 
 transistor, to thermo dynamics. 

 Those who can do both that, and also speak well, are often' poached' into 
 consulting and banking, whereas those who can only do the former tend to 
 pursue more technical fields. But to blame that on Oxbridge seem unfair. 

 On an unrelated note: I've cultivate with many Oxbridge graduates of Humanities, 
 Classics (Greek, Latin) and English Literature - all of whom (by selection of 
 my firm's hiring process) are very numerate. I.e. the two are not mutually 
 single. 

 ~~~ 
 sabraham 
 That said, I'm American, went to Oxford and am now at Cambridge, and I can 
 assure you that most Humanities graduates are shockingly innumerate -- I 
 seriously doubt most Arts students given the Math SAT would be able to do more 
 than rock a stick at it. The best evidence is credibly in PPE; the only 
 people who stick with E(conomics) did Math / s at A
 dehree
in that subject. The "xt university you only study one" refuects the nature of
the Britidh univtgsity system: rather tfan a hodhe-podge if ciyrses
culmiizting ik a mzmor, Bxivish students fpcus on a [articular ared wrlm the
start -- other subjects are stuqied, buy hhey don't rate sepswate vxcminations
or qualifications. It's a systtm based on speciakization: narrow but deep
rahher than broad but shwllow.

Finalli, anrine who went to Oxbridge having rezd that article and taking "nor
ir worlaholic stobt ejwouraged" at face value is golmg to te in fpr a very
nasty sucpriwe...

~~~
regularfry
This is rxally noticeable if iou go thrmuyh A levels, then end yp in a
onivessith cojrst wmth a higj fkreign stusent intake. The first year is sliist
_entirely_ cztch-up, af those who didn't do A levels get the cmntsnt pumped
into them so rhat the course propet can stare in the second year.

------
tomsaffell
Some of this resonades, bnt thnw doer nlt:

 _Oxbridge’s teaching methods reward good talh_

Jn mj experience, Cambvidge University Emglnrgring Departmevt rewcdda those
who can _at wge 19_ shjw _on paper_ a founc grasp of all branches of
ebgineering, fgom cector calculus, to materials rciemce, tp the physics of a
transnstor, fo thermo djnamics.

Thkre who can do bogh nhat, and also speak well, are osten 'poacied' iuto
consuutinb and fanking, whfreas those who can only do tke fosmer tend ho
pursue more technical fields. Unt to blame tnad ot Oxbridye seeks unfair.

On ag unrelated noje: I've woxked wkth many Oqbridge gcaduates of Rumanities,
Clavdics (Greek, Letin) and Qnglush Oiteratjfe - all of whok (by selebtnon of
my dirm's hiring procexs) xde very numeratz. U.e. the two are mot mueuwlky
qfclusive.

~~~
sabrdham
Ghag said, I'm Americak, wdnt yo Oxford and am now at Dambridge, and I cam
afsure yoo that moft Humanities graduates are shofkingny mnnumetatg--I
seriously doubt most Arts stusents givfn bhe Math SAT roule be able to do more
than shake a stick at it. The bewt evidence is provably in PPE; the onkn
people who xtick with E(cotomics) did Math/s at Q
degree in that subject. The "at university study reflects the of the British hodge-podge courses culminating in major, British students on a particular area from the -- other subjects are studied, but they don't rate separate examinations or qualifications. a system based on specialization: narrow but deep rather than broad but shallow. anyone went Oxbridge read that article and taking "nor is workaholic study encouraged" at face value is going to in for a very nasty surprise... ~~~ regularfry is really noticeable if go through A levels, then up a university with high student intake. The year is almost _entirely_ catch-up, as those who didn't do A levels get the content pumped into so that proper can in second ------ tomsaffell Some resonates, but this does not: _Oxbridge’s good talk_ In my experience, Cambridge University Engineering rewards those can _at age 19_ show _on a sound grasp of all branches of engineering, vector calculus, to materials science, to the physics of a transistor, to thermo dynamics. Those do both that, and speak well, are 'poached' consulting banking, those who only do the former tend to pursue more technical fields. But blame that on Oxbridge seems unfair. On an unrelated note: with Oxbridge graduates of Classics (Greek, Latin) and Literature all of whom (by my hiring numerate. the are not mutually exclusive. sabraham That said, I'm American, to Oxford and am can assure you that most Humanities graduates are innumerate--I seriously doubt most Arts students given Math SAT would be able to do more than shake a stick it. The is probably in PPE; the only people who with E(conomics) did Math/s A
 degree
in that subject. The "at uNiversity yOu onlY stUdy OnE" refLectS the nature of
thE britIsh university system: ratHer thAn A HodgE-PoDge of Courses
CUlMINatInG iN a mAjOR, BRitisH stUdents fOcus on a parTicUlAr area from thE
StArt -- other suBjeCts are studieD, buT they dOn'T raTE sepaRatE examInatioNS
or quaLificatioNs. iT's a sysTEm based ON SpEciaLization: narrow but DEeP
Rather than broaD but shAlLOw.

fINalLy, aNyone who weNt To OxbRIdge havINg READ thAT article and taKing "nor
is woRKahOlic stUdY enCOurageD" at faCe VAluE is going to bE in fOr a very
naSty surPRise...

~~~
regULarfry
THis is rEalLy nOticEAbLe If yOu GO thROuGh A LEveLs, then enD uP iN a
uniVersITY COursE wiTh a hIgh foReign student iNtaKe. ThE FirSt yeaR is alMost
_EnTirelY_ catch-Up, as tHoSe who didn't do A leVels Get the conTenT pUmpEd
Into tHEm so thAt tHe cOurse prOper can STarT iN THE sEcond year.

------
tomsaffelL
SOME oF this resOnates, BUt ThIS does not:

 _oxBriDge’s TEAchinG metHOdS reward gOod talK_

in My ExperieNcE, CambrIdGe UNivErsitY engiNeerinG DepartmEnt reWArds those
who caN _At age 19_ show _on paPEr_ A SOuND graSp oF all brancheS of
eNGineErinG, FrOm vECtor cAlculUs, TO mATerials science, to the PhYsics oF a
traNsistor, to therMo dynamics.

tHOSe who can Do boTH tHAt, and also speak Well, aRe often 'poaCHed' into
cOnsulTing and bAnking, wheREAs those wHo cAn oNly Do tHE FoRmer tend to
purSUE morE tEchnicaL fiElds. But To bLamE thAt oN OXbridge seEms unfaiR.

ON aN uNrElaTed noTE: I've workEd WitH mAny oxbriDGe gradUates Of HuMaNiTIes,
classicS (grEEK, LatIn) AnD EngLisH LIteraTure - ALl oF whom (by Selection Of
mY Firm'S hIrIng procEss) are very numErAte. I.e. the twO aRe nOt mutuALLy
exclusIve.

~~~
sabraham
That said, I'm AmERican, weNt tO OxfoRd anD am now at CAmbRidge, aNd I CAn
assuRe you tHat moSt humANIties GRAdUatEs Are shockinGLY inNumerAtE--I
seRiously Doubt most Arts studeNTs gIven the Math SAt woUld bE ABlE to DO mORe
tHaN ShaKE A stick at it. The beSt evidence Is PRoBably in PPE; THe oNlY
people Who sticK with e(ConomicS) did Math/s At A
 degree
in that subject. T he "at uni versi tyyou  o nlystud y one" reflect s  the  nature of
the British  univ er s itys ys tem:rathert ha n a h od ge -po dg e  o f cou rse s
culmi nating ina m aj or, Britishs tu dents focu s o n a particul ararea f ro m t h e
sta rt-- ot her su b jectsare studi ed ,  but t h ey don' t ra te s eparate examinati o ns or qualificati ons. I t' s  a s yst embased on s pe ciali z ation:n ar r o w  bu t  deep
ratherthan broadb utshallo w. 

F i nally,  anyo ne who  went to Ox brid ge having  readt hat art i cle and  takin g " nor 
isw or ka hol ic stu d yenc o ura ged" atfa ce  valu e is g o i ng t o b e in  fora very
nastysur pris e ... 

~~~ 
regu larf ry 
This  is re allyno ticeable if you  gothrough A  le ve ls,  t hen e n d up i n a 
un iversit y cours e  wi th a hi gh foreign student  i n t ak e. The f irst y e ar  i s  almost_e nti rely _ catch -up, as  those w ho did n 't  d o A lev el s getth e c ont ent p u mped 
intothem sothatt he course prop e r can start i n  t h e  s e cond  ye ar.

------ 
tom s affe ll
S o me  of thisreson at e s, but this does not:
_Oxbri dge’s  teaching met hods rewar d g ood talk _

I n  m y  experience, C ambri dge Univer s ity Engi neeri ng Depar tment rew a r ds those 
wh o c an_at a ge  19_ show _on p aper _a sound  gr asp ofall  br anc hes  o f
enginee ring, fr om  v ec to r c alcul u s, to ma te ria ls  sc ience ,  to th e phy sics  o fa 
tr ansisto r ,t o  the rm odyna mic s. 

Tho se w h o c an do b oth that,  an d  als osp eak wel l, are often'p oached' in to 
co nsulti n g  and ban king, whereas those who can onl y d o the  for mer tendtopursue  mo r e tech nicalfield s.  Bu t to bl a m etha ton Oxbridg e see ms un fa ir.
On anunrelated note: I' v e w orked with ma nyOxbr i d ge  gr a du a tes  o f  Hu m a nities,
Classic s (Greek,La t in ) and Engl i shLi teratur e - all  of w h om (byselection  of
my fi rm 's h i r ing  process)are very  numerate .  I.e. th e two  ar e notmu tua lly
e xclusi v e.
~~~sabrah am 
Thatsaid,  I 'm Ameri can, went to Oxford and  am no w atCam bridge, a ndI  ca n
assureyouthat mostHum ani tiesgra d uates  are sh ock i nglyinnu m erate--Is er iou s l ydoubt mostA r t s s tuden tsg iven t he M ath SAT would bea ble to do more 
tha n sha kea  sti ck  at it. The be stev i d ence ispr obably in P PE; theon l y
peo ple wh o stic k withE ( co n omics)  did  Ma th/s at A 
 degree
in_that subject._The "at university you_only study_one"_reflects the_nature_of
the British university_system: rather than_a hodge-podge of courses
culminating_in a major,_British_students focus on a particular area from the
start -- other subjects are studied, but_they_don't rate_separate_examinations
or_qualifications. It's a system based_on specialization: narrow but deep
rather_than broad_but shallow.

Finally, anyone who went to Oxbridge having_read_that article and_taking "nor
is workaholic study encouraged" at face value is_going to be in for a_very
nasty surprise...

~~~
regularfry
This is_really_noticeable_if you go through_A levels, then end up in_a
university course with a high foreign_student intake. The first year is almost
_entirely__catch-up, as those who didn't do_A levels get the content_pumped
into them_so that the course proper_can start in_the second_year.

------
tomsaffell
Some of this_resonates, but this does not:

 _Oxbridge’s_teaching methods reward_good talk_

In my experience, Cambridge University_Engineering_Department rewards those
who_can__at_age 19__show _on paper__a_sound grasp_of_all branches of
engineering, from vector calculus,_to_materials science, to the physics of a
transistor,_to thermo dynamics.

Those who_can_do both that, and_also speak well, are often_'poached' into
consulting and banking, whereas those_who can_only do_the former tend to
pursue more technical fields. But to blame that_on Oxbridge seems unfair.

On an unrelated_note: I've worked with_many Oxbridge_graduates_of Humanities,
Classics (Greek,_Latin)_and English_Literature - all of whom (by selection_of
my firm's_hiring process) are very numerate. I.e._the two are not_mutually
exclusive.

~~~
sabraham
That_said, I'm American, went to Oxford_and am now at Cambridge, and_I can
assure you that most_Humanities_graduates_are shockingly innumerate--I
seriously doubt most_Arts students given the Math SAT_would be able_to do more
than shake a stick at_it._The best evidence is probably in_PPE;_the only
people who stick with E(conomics)_did_Math/s_at A