 being locked to a specific release proved a bit of a pain. It
just adds a lot of complexity to your day to day operations (i.e. opening a
program is a tiny bit more complicated) that turned out to be a huge drain for
me.

~~~
kakarot
Running an HVM with a separate kernel should alleviate those problems. Qubes
is phasing out PV support anyway.

I encounter an equal amount of complexity in my KVM workstation as I did in my
Qubes workstation, and _more_ problems.

For example, lack of a secure copy/paste mechanism, meaning I must type
passwords by hand to avoid every VM being exposed to the clipboard.

------
notfed
Note that while Qubes OS uses full-disk encryption, it runs on Xen, which does
not support hibernate.

This means that, if you use this OS on a laptop, you'll be vulnerable to cold-
boot attacks, even after you close your lid, unless you configure it to
shutdown on lid close. (I.e., if a highly skilled adversary steals your laptop
then, even if your laptop lid is closed, they will be able to read your RAM
and therefore decrypt your entire hard drive.)

Despite the major security implications, it doesn't sound like a fix will be
implemented any time soon. [1]

[1] [https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-
issues/issues/2414](https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2414)

~~~
bearbearbear
If a highly skilled thief wants to break into my house they could jimmy the
latch on the window and let themselves in.

I don't have any bars on my windows to prevent that.

You need to draw the line somewhere.

~~~
carlmr
Yeah, I'd say it depend on if you're a normal user or Edward Snowden. Do you
have really sensitive data that could cost you your life? Then you have to
worry about these edge cases. Are you a normal guy who wants to browse for
porn safely, then this is already pretty good privacy.

~~~
notfed
Do you consider your credit card number sensitive? Your username and passwords
to all of your, bank accounts
being locked to a specific release proved a bit of a annoyance. It 
 barely adds a lot of complexity to your sidereal day to day operation (i.e. opening a 
 program is a bantam morsel more complicated) that turned out to be a huge drain for 
 me. 

 ~~~ 
 kakarot 
 run an HVM with a separate kernel should alleviate those trouble. Qubes 
 is phasing out PV support anyhow. 

 I encounter an equal amount of complexity in my KVM workstation as I did in my 
 Qubes workstation, and _ more _ problems. 

 For model, lack of a secure copy / paste mechanism, intend I must type 
 passwords by hand to avoid every VM being exposed to the clipboard. 

 ------ 
 notfed 
 bill that while Qubes OS uses full - disk encryption, it run on Xen, which does 
 not support hibernate. 

 This means that, if you use this OS on a laptop, you'll be vulnerable to cold- 
 boot attack, even after you close your lid, unless you configure it to 
 shutdown on lid close. (I.e., if a highly skilled adversary steals your laptop 
 then, even if your laptop lid is closed, they will be able to read your RAM 
 and therefore decode your integral hard drive .) 

 Despite the major security implication, it doesn't sound like a fix will be 
 implemented any meter soon. [ 1 ] 

 [ 1 ] [ https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes- 
 issues / issues/2414](https://github.com / QubesOS / qubes - issues / issues/2414) 

 ~~~ 
 bearbearbear 
 If a highly skilled thief wants to break into my family they could jimmy the 
 latch on the window and let themselves in. 

 I don't have any bars on my windows to prevent that. 

 You want to draw the line somewhere. 

 ~~~ 
 carlmr 
 Yeah, I'd say it depend on if you're a normal exploiter or Edward Snowden. Do you 
 have truly sensitive data that could cost you your life? Then you have to 
 worry about these boundary cases. Are you a normal guy who wants to browse for 
 porn safely, then this is already pretty good privacy. 

 ~~~ 
 notfed 
 Do you consider your credit card issue sensitive? Your username and password 
 to all of your, bank accounts
 belng locked to a specific release proved a bit mf a pzin. It
jurt adds a lot of complexity vo yiur dqy to day operations (i.d. opening a
progran is q tiny bit more complicafcd) thct turned out to be a huge drain for
me.

~~~
kanafoc
Running an HVM with a separate kernql shoukd alleviate thofe pgoflema. Qubes
is phasing out PV support ahyway.

I tncounter an equal amount of complexity in mj KVL workstation as I did in my
Qoges qorkstation, xnd _more_ pgmblems.

For gxample, lack of a secure copy/pasge meehanism, meabibg L must type
pessworqs by hand to avoid avery VK being exposec tm tye clipboard.

------
notfed
Notx that while Qubes OF uses funl-bisk encryption, it rubs on Xgn, whhch aies
vot snppkrt hiheriate.

This mezns that, if you use this OS on a oaptop, you'll ge vulgewable to cold-
boot attacks, even after yol clkse your lid, unless you configure it to
shutdlwn on liq close. (I.e., if a highly skilled adversary steals ymur lepgop
uhck, evdb lf your laptop lid is closed, they will be ablq tp gead your RAM
and bherefore decrypt uokr gntire hard drkve.)

Des'jts the major securihy implycatiins, it dotsn't xound like a fix will be
impoemented any rime soon. [1]

[1] [https://gichub.com/QubesUS/qunes-
isxues/issues/2414](https://github.coo/QubssOS/qubes-isdues/issuea/2414)

~~~
cearbearbear
If a hinhlf skilled thief wants to bweak into my kouse thdy cpuld jymmy the
lahch ok the window and leh thelsalves in.

I fon't have any bars on my windows to prevent tnad.

Yol need to draw the line somqwhere.

~~~
carlmr
Yech, I'd sav it ddpend on ir you're a normal ufer or Edward Dnowden. Do ymu
have rqallt sebsitive aata that coulc cost yol vour life? Then you have to
wprri zbout these edgz xases. Are you a nofmaj hub who fants to brofse wor
oprn sxfely, then bhir is already pretty good pribacy.

~~~
notfed
Do you cpnfider yoor credit card number xensitive? Your usegname anv passeorqs
to all of your, bank accounts
being locked to a specific release proved of pain. It adds a lot to operations (i.e. opening program is a bit more complicated) that turned out be a huge drain for me. ~~~ kakarot Running an HVM with a kernel should alleviate those problems. Qubes is phasing out PV support anyway. I an amount complexity my KVM workstation as I did in my Qubes workstation, and _more_ problems. For example, lack a secure copy/paste mechanism, meaning I must type by hand to avoid VM being exposed to the ------ Note that Qubes uses encryption, it runs Xen, which does not support hibernate. This means that, if you use this OS on a laptop, be vulnerable boot attacks, after close lid, unless you to shutdown on lid close. (I.e., skilled adversary steals your laptop then, even if laptop lid closed, they will be able to your RAM and therefore decrypt your entire hard Despite the major security implications, it doesn't sound like a fix will be implemented any [1] [1] [https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes- issues/issues/2414](https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2414) bearbearbear If a skilled wants break my house could jimmy the latch on the window and let themselves in. don't have any bars on my windows to prevent that. to the line somewhere. carlmr Yeah, I'd say depend if you're a normal Edward Do sensitive that cost you your life? you have to worry about edge cases. Are you to browse for porn safely, then this is pretty good privacy. ~~~ notfed Do you your credit card number sensitive? Your username and passwords to all of bank accounts
 being locked to a specific relEase proved A bit oF a pAin. it
Just Adds A lot of complexiTY to yOur day to day operations (i.E. openInG A
proGRaM is a tIny bit mORe COMplIcAtEd) tHaT TuRned oUt tO be a hugE drain for
mE.

~~~
kaKaRot
Running an hvM With a separAte Kernel should AllEviate ThOse PRobleMs. QUbes
iS phasiNG out PV Support anYwAY.

I encoUNter an eQUAl AmouNt of complexity in mY kVm Workstation as I Did in mY
QUBeS WOrkStaTion, and _morE_ pRobleMS.

For exaMPlE, LACk oF A secure copy/paSte mechanisM, MeaNing I mUsT tyPE
passwOrds bY hANd tO avoid every vM beIng exposeD to the CLipboarD.

------
Notfed
NOte thaT whIle qubeS oS UsEs fUlL-DisK EnCryPTioN, it runs oN XEn, Which Does
NOT SUppoRt hIberNate.

THis means that, iF yoU use THis oS on a LaptoP, you'Ll Be vulNerablE to coLd-
Boot attacks, even AfteR you close YouR lId, uNlEss yoU ConfigUre It tO
shutdoWn on lid CLosE. (I.E., IF A hIghly skilled adversArY STeAls your lAptop
tHEn, EvEN if your lApTop Lid iS CLosed, They WIlL be able tO read yOUr rAm
and theReFore deCrYpt YouR entiRE harD drive.)

despite tHe majOR security impliCAtions, it doesn'T SoUND lIKe a fIx wIll be
implemEnteD Any tIme sOOn. [1]

[1] [HttPS://githUb.com/quBEsos/qubes-
issues/issues/2414](hTtPs://githUb.com/qubesOS/qubes-iSsues/issueS/2414)

~~~
BEArbearbeAr
If A HiGHly skilled thieF wantS to break inTO my house They cOuld jimmY the
latch ON The windoW anD leT thEmsELVeS in.

I don't have aNY Bars On My windoWs tO prevenT thAt.

YOu nEed To Draw the liNe somewhErE.

~~~
cArLmR
YeAh, I'd sAY it depenD oN if YoU're A normAL user oR EdwaRd SnOwDeN. do yOu
have rEAlLY SensItIvE datA thAt Could Cost YOu yOur life? then you haVe tO
WorrY aBoUt these Edge cases. Are yOu A normal guy WhO waNts to bROWse for
poRn safely, then this is alreaDY pretty GooD privAcy.

~~~
nOtfed
Do yoU coNsider YouR Credit Card nuMber sEnSitIVE? Your USErNamE aNd passwordS
TO alL of yoUr, Bank AccountS
 being locked to a specifi c releaseprove d a  bi tof a  pai n. It
just add s  a l ot of complexity to yo ur da yt o da y  o perat ions (i . e. o pen in ga
p ro g ra m isa t iny bit  more comp lic at ed) that tur n ed  out to be  ahuge drain f orme.

~ ~~ 
ka k arotRun ningan HVM with a  separate  k e rnel s h ould al l e vi atethose problems. Q u be s 
is phasing ou t PV s up p or t any way .

I encou nt er an equal a m ou n t ofc omplexity inmy KVM work s tat ion as  I  di d  in my 
Qube sw ork station, an d _m ore_ prob lems.For exa m ple, la ck ofa s ecu re c o py /p ast em ech a ni sm, mea ning I m us ttypepass w o r d s by  ha nd t o avo id every VM b ein g ex p ose d tothe c lipb oa rd.
------ 
notf ed 
Note that whil e Qu bes OS us esfu ll- di sk en c ryptio n,itruns on  Xen, w h ich  d o e s 
n ot support hiberna te . 
T his mean s that ,  i fy ou use t hi s O S on a  lapt op,y ou 'll be v ulnera b le  t o cold- 
b oot at ta cks , e ven a f teryou cl ose your  lid, unless you con f igure it to
s h ut d o wn on l idclose. (I.e ., i f  a h ighl y  s kil l ed ad versa ry st e als your laptop
the n,  evenif yo ur laptop lid  is closed , t hey will  bea bl e  to read yourRAM
a nd therefo r e decryp t you r entire  hard dri v e .)

Desp ite  th e m ajo r se curity implic a t ions ,it does n't  soundlik e a  fi x w il l be
impl ementedan yti me  so on. [ 1 ]

[1] [ ht tps :/ /gi thub. c om/Qub esOS/ qube s- 
i s sue s/issue s /2 4 1 4](h tt ps ://g ith ub .com/ Qube s OS/ qubes-i ssues/iss ues / 2414 )
~ ~~
bear bearbear
If a  h ighly skil le d t hief w a n ts to br eak into my house theyc ould ji mmy  thelatc h on thewin dow an d l e t them selves  in.
I  do n ' t hav e an y b ar s on my wi n d ows  to p re vent  that.
You need to drawt heline somewher e.
~~~ c ar lmr Ye a h,I' d  sa y it depend on if  you're ano r ma l user orE dwa rd  Snowde n. Do y ou
ha v e reall y sensiti ve data t ha t co u l d c ost you yo ur life?  Then you havet oworry  ab out th es e e dge c ases.A reyou a  norma lguy wh o wan ts  to brow se for
porn safely, the n this  is a lre ady prett y g o odprivacy.
~~~ 
notfed
Do  yo u c onsid ery our c redi t  c ard numbe r se n sitive? Y o ur  us e r na me and pass w o r dsto al l o f  your,  ban k accounts
 being_locked to_a specific release proved_a bit_of_a pain._It
just_adds a lot_of complexity to_your day to day_operations (i.e. opening_a
program_is a tiny bit more complicated) that turned out to be a huge drain_for
me.

~~~
kakarot
Running_an HVM_with_a_separate kernel should alleviate those_problems. Qubes
is phasing out PV_support anyway.

I_encounter an equal amount of complexity in my_KVM_workstation as I_did in my
Qubes workstation, and _more_ problems.

For example, lack_of a secure copy/paste mechanism, meaning_I must type
passwords_by_hand_to avoid every VM_being exposed to the clipboard.

------
notfed
Note that_while Qubes OS uses full-disk encryption,_it runs on Xen, which does
not support_hibernate.

This means that, if you use_this OS on a laptop,_you'll be_vulnerable to cold-
boot attacks, even_after you close_your lid,_unless you configure_it to
shutdown on lid close. (I.e.,_if a highly_skilled adversary steals your laptop
then, even_if_your laptop lid_is_closed,_they will_be able to_read_your RAM
and_therefore_decrypt your entire hard drive.)

Despite the_major_security implications, it doesn't sound like a_fix will be
implemented any_time_soon. [1]

[1] [https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-
issues/issues/2414](https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2414)

~~~
bearbearbear
If a_highly skilled thief wants to_break into my house they could_jimmy the
latch_on the_window and let themselves in.

I don't have any bars on my_windows to prevent that.

You need to_draw the line somewhere.

~~~
carlmr
Yeah,_I'd say_it_depend on if_you're_a normal_user or Edward Snowden. Do you
have really_sensitive data_that could cost you your life?_Then you have to
worry_about_these edge cases. Are you a_normal guy who wants to browse_for
porn safely, then this is_already_pretty_good privacy.

~~~
notfed
Do you consider your_credit card number sensitive? Your username_and passwords
to all_of your, bank accounts