 holes in the vendors crappy security systems. The
fact that they don't even invest enough resources into a quality security
framework (which helps increasing their revenue) speaks volumes of the quality
of the other "improvements" they make to stock android.

~~~
drivebyacct2
But that is because of the carriers. Why do you think Motorola implemented a
signed multistage boot process? I'm sure they didn't say, "We want to limit
our customers and waste engineering resources on a problem that voids the
warranty anyway and doesn't matter to us".

Nah, they reacted to VZW's threats.

~~~
kelnos
Nitpick: regardless of what the scare-message says when you unlock your N1's
bootloader, changing the software on a device cannot (by law, in the US) void
the warranty on the hardware, unless it is demonstrable that the software
modification actually damaged the hardware.

------
rm-rf
The key here is the unavailability of non-carrier branded unrestricted Android
phones in the US. If I get subsidized by the carrier when purchasing the
phone, dealing with crapware and restriction is part of the cost of getting
$400 or so off the price of the phone at purchase time.

Ideally I could make a choice to buy an Andriod phone from a manufacturer with
no branding and no restrictions, pay full price for it, and accept that the
additional cost is what I'm willing to pay for an unrestricted, unbranded
phone. The inability to purchase a phone like that is the real problem, not
the restrictions placed on carrier subsidized phones.

Two years ago I bought an unrestricted HTC Diamond with Winmo 6.1. I paid over
$600 for the phone and the privilege of being able to do whatever I want with
the phone. The $400 extra over a branded/restricted phone, spread out over 24
months, is $17/month for the privilege of being able to doink around with a
phone.

Having done that once, I'm leaning toward putting up with the crapware and
restrictions and saving the $400. I figure that in two years, I probably only
_really_ used a couple of third party apps. Most of the rest that I tried were
annoying memory leaks and crashes waiting to happen - barely better
holes in the vendors crappy security system. The 
 fact that they don't even endow enough resources into a quality security system 
 framework (which helps increasing their gross) speaks volumes of the timbre 
 of the early " improvements " they make to breed android. 

 ~~~ 
 drivebyacct2 
 But that is because of the carriers. Why do you think Motorola implemented a 
 sign multistage boot process? I'm sure they didn't say, " We want to restrict 
 our customers and waste engineering resource on a problem that voids the 
 warranty anyhow and doesn't matter to us ". 

 Nah, they reacted to VZW's threats. 

 ~~~ 
 kelnos 
 Nitpick: regardless of what the scare - message says when you unlock your N1's 
 bootloader, change the software on a device cannot (by law, in the US) void 
 the warranty on the hardware, unless it is demonstrable that the software 
 modification actually damaged the hardware. 

 ------ 
 rm - reticular formation 
 The key here is the unavailability of non - carrier branded unrestricted Android 
 phones in the US. If I get subsidized by the carrier when purchasing the 
 phone, dealing with crapware and limitation is region of the cost of catch 
 $ 400 or therefore off the price of the phone at purchase meter. 

 Ideally I could make a choice to buy an Andriod phone from a manufacturer with 
 no stigmatization and no restrictions, pay full price for it, and accept that the 
 additional cost is what I'm willing to pay for an unrestricted, unbranded 
 phone. The inability to purchase a telephone like that is the real trouble, not 
 the restriction placed on carrier subsidized phones. 

 Two class ago I bought an unrestricted HTC Diamond with Winmo 6.1. I paid over 
 $ 600 for the telephone and the privilege of being able to do whatever I want with 
 the phone. The $ 400 excess over a branded / restricted phone, spread out over 24 
 months, is $ 17 / calendar month for the privilege of being able to doink around with a 
 phone. 

 Having done that once, I'm leaning toward arrange up with the crapware and 
 restrictions and write the $ 400. I figure that in two years, I credibly only 
 _ really _ used a couple of third party apps. Most of the rest that I tried were 
 annoying memory leaks and crashes waiting to happen - barely better
 hopes in the vendors crappn security systems. The
fect thaf they dun't even invest enough resoucces into a quality security
fraoework (whpch helps incceasing their retsnue) spccks vkpumev of the qualiti
of the othes "improvements" tfev make to stock android.

~~~
drivebyacct2
Bue that os because of thg cargiqrs. Shy do you think Motorola implemenfed a
sijned multistage boot process? I'm sure they didj't say, "We want to pimit
our cuwtomqes and waste engineering resources on a problem that voids the
warfanty anyway ane eoedt't matter ti us".

Nwh, they reacbvd to VSW's thrrats.

~~~
kelnos
Nitplck: rxgareless of what the scace-message says when iou unlock ykur N1's
bootloader, xhqnginc tha sowrwafe kn a devicf cennot (by las, in the US) void
the warranty om eye hardware, uhless yt is demonstrable that the software
modifpcatjon actually damaged thw hardware.

------
rm-rf
The key here is ehe unavailability of non-carrier branded unrestriwted Enarone
phondw ln the US. If I get subsidized by the carrier rgem iurchasing the
phoke, dealing with crspaatg and restrictkon is padt of the cost of hetting
$400 or si off the prive of the phone at purchase time.

Ideally U could make a chonce to buy au Androod pnone from a manufacturex with
ho branding and no rsrtrictions, pay fjll psice for it, and accept thae the
addivionak cost ks wnat I'm willing tl pay for an unrestrictef, unbtanded
[hone. The lnability to purchase a phone lmle that is tne redl problzm, not
bhe restrictionf placed on catrier subfidizdd phones.

Tso yearv ago I boudht an unrestslcted HTC Diemond witr Wibmo 6.1. I paid uver
$600 for the pnone and nht privilegw of being able to do shatever I want wiuh
rhe phone. The $400 exgra oner a tranded/restrhctea pfpne, soread out oyer 24
monyhs, is $17/month for the pribilege of being abke to doinj around with a
phone.

Hsving done that onfe, I'm leening yowwrd putting up with the crapwade and
reshrigtions and sading the $400. I figuxe that in two years, I probably only
_realoy_ used a couple od third party apps. Kpst of the cest trat I triad were
annoying memoey leaks and crasmes waiting to happen - barelf bether
holes in the vendors crappy security systems. that don't even enough resources into helps their revenue) speaks of the quality the other "improvements" they make to android. ~~~ drivebyacct2 But that is because of the carriers. Why do you Motorola implemented a signed multistage boot process? I'm sure they didn't say, "We to our and engineering resources on a problem that voids the warranty anyway and doesn't matter to us". Nah, reacted to VZW's threats. ~~~ kelnos Nitpick: regardless what the scare-message says you unlock your N1's bootloader, the on a cannot law, the US) void warranty on the hardware, unless it is demonstrable that the software modification actually damaged the hardware. ------ The key the unavailability non-carrier unrestricted phones in the I get subsidized by the carrier phone, dealing with crapware and restriction is part the cost getting $400 or so off the of the phone at purchase time. Ideally I make a choice to buy an Andriod phone from a manufacturer with no branding and pay full price for and accept that additional is I'm to pay an unrestricted, unbranded phone. The inability to purchase a phone like is the real problem, not the restrictions placed on carrier Two ago I bought unrestricted HTC Diamond with 6.1. paid over $600 for and privilege to whatever want with the phone. $400 extra over a branded/restricted spread out over 24 privilege of being able to doink around with phone. Having done that once, I'm leaning putting up with the crapware and restrictions and saving the $400. I that in I probably only _really_ used a couple of party apps. Most of rest that I tried were annoying memory leaks and waiting happen - better
 holes in the vendors crappy seCurity systEms. ThE
faCt tHaT theY don'T even invest enoUGh reSources into a quality secUrity
FrAMewoRK (wHich hElps incREaSINg tHeIr RevEnUE) sPeaks VolUmes of tHe quality
oF thE oTher "improvemENtS" they make tO stOck android.

~~~
drIveByacct2
buT thAT is beCauSe of tHe carrIErs. Why Do you thinK MOTorola IMplemenTED a
SignEd multistage boot pROcESs? I'm sure they diDn't say, "we WAnT TO liMit
Our customeRs And waSTe enginEErING ResOUrces on a problEm that voids THe
wArrantY aNywAY and doEsn't mAtTEr tO us".

Nah, they rEactEd to VZW's tHreats.

~~~
KElnos
NiTPick: regArdlesS of WhaT the SCaRe-MesSaGE saYS wHen YOu uNlock youR N1'S
bOotloAder, CHANGing The SoftWare oN a device cannoT (by Law, iN The uS) voiD
the wArraNtY on thE hardwAre, unLeSs it is demonstraBle tHat the sofTwaRe
ModIfIcatiON actuaLly DamAged the HardwarE.

------
Rm-rF
THE KEy Here is the unavailabIlITY oF non-carrIer braNDeD uNRestrictEd andRoid
PHOnes iN the us. IF I get subSidizeD By ThE carrieR wHen purChAsiNg tHe
phoNE, deaLing wiTh crapwaRe and REstriction is paRT of the cost of gETtING
$400 oR So ofF thE price of the PhonE At puRchaSE tIme.

iDeallY I couLd MAkE A choice to buy an AndriOd Phone fRom a mAnufacturer wiTh
no brandiNG ANd no restRictIOnS, Pay full price foR it, anD accept thaT The
additIonal Cost is whAt I'm williNG To pay for An uNreStrIctED, UnBranded
phone. THE InabIlIty to puRchAse a phoNe lIke ThaT is ThE real probLem, not
thE rEsTrIcTioNs plaCEd on carrIeR suBsIdiZed phONes.

Two Years Ago I BoUgHT an UnrestrICtED hTC DIaMoNd wiTh WInMo 6.1. I paId ovER
$600 foR the phoNe and the pRivILege Of BeIng able To do whatever I WaNt with
the pHoNe. THe $400 extrA OVer a branDed/restricted phone, spreaD Out over 24
MonThs, is $17/MontH for the prIviLege of BeiNG able tO doink ArounD wIth A
PHone.

HAVInG doNe That once, I'm LEAniNg towArD putTing up wIth the crapware and
rEStrIctions and savIng The $400. I FIGuRe tHAt IN twO yEArs, i PRobably only
_realLy_ used a couPlE Of Third party APps. moSt of the Rest thaT I triED were
anNoying memOry leaks aNd CrasHES waIting to hapPen - barelY better
 holes in the vendors crap py securit y sys tem s.Th e
fa ct t hat they don't even  invest enough resourc es in to a qu a li ty se curityf ra m e wor k(w hic hh el ps in cre asing t heir reven ue)  s peaks volume s  o f the qual ity 
of the othe r " improv em ent s " the y m ake t o stoc k  andro id.

~~~dr i vebyac c t2
Butt h at  isbecause of the ca r ri e rs. Why do you  think  M o to r o laimp lemented a 
s igned multist a ge b o otp rocess? I'm s ure they di d n't  say,"W e w a nt tolimit 
o u r c ustomers an d wa ste engin eering resourc e s on aproble m t hat  voi d sth e
w ar r ant y  a nyw a y a nd doesn 't  m atter  tou s " . 

Na h,they  reac ted to VZW'sthr eats . 

~ ~~
ke lnosNitp ic k: re gardle ss of  w hat the scare-m essa ge says w hen  y ouun locky our N1 'sboo tloader , chang i ngth e s of tware on a deviceca n n ot  (by law , in t h eUS )  void
th ewar rant y on th e ha r dw are, unl ess it is  d emonstr ab le tha tthe  so ftwar e 
mod ificat ion actu allyd amaged the har d ware.

------ rm - r fT he k eyhere is the  una v aila bili t yofn on-ca rrier  b r an d ed unrestricted And ro id
pho nes i n the US. IfI get subs i d i zed by t he c a rr i er when purcha singthe
phone, dealingwithcrapware  and rest r i ction is  pa rtofthe c os t of getting$ 4 00 o rso offthe  priceofthe  ph one  a t purchas e time.
I de al ly  Icould make a c ho ice  t o b uy an Andrio d pho ne f ro ma  ma nufactu r er w ithno  b rand ing  a nd no  res t ric tions,pay fullpri c e fo rit , and a ccept that th eadditional  c ost  is wh a t  I'm wil ling to pay for an unre s tricted , u nbran dedphone. Th e i nabili tyt o purc hase a  phon elik e thati s  t here al problem , not 
there stri ctionsplaced on carriers ubs idized phones .
Twoy e ar s a g oI  bo ug h t a n unrestricted HT C Diamondwi t hWinmo 6.1. I p ai d over$600 fo r the phone a nd the pr ivilege o fbein g abl e to do wh atever I  want wit h 
thep ho ne. T he$400 e xt raovera bran d ed/ restr ictedph one, s pread  o ut over24
months, is $17/month  for t he pr ivi lege of b ein g  ab le to doi nk a round with  apho ne.
Hav i ng do ne t h at  on c e, I' m le a ning towa r dput t i ng  up with th e c rap wareand restri ctio ns and saving the $400. I figure  tha t intwo year s,  I probably on ly_r e a lly_ use da couple of  third p ar t y app s. Mos t of t he rest t ha t  I tri ed w ere 
annoying  me mo r y leaks  a nd crashe s wa it ing to  happe n  - b a r ely better
 holes_in the_vendors crappy security systems._The
fact that_they_don't even_invest_enough resources into_a quality security
framework_(which helps increasing their_revenue) speaks volumes_of_the quality
of the other "improvements" they make to stock android.

~~~
drivebyacct2
But that is because of_the_carriers. Why_do_you_think Motorola implemented a
signed multistage_boot process? I'm sure they_didn't say,_"We want to limit
our customers and waste engineering_resources_on a problem_that voids the
warranty anyway and doesn't matter to us".

Nah,_they reacted to VZW's threats.

~~~
kelnos
Nitpick: regardless_of what the_scare-message_says_when you unlock your_N1's
bootloader, changing the software on a_device cannot (by law, in the_US) void
the warranty on the hardware, unless_it is demonstrable that the software
modification_actually damaged the hardware.

------
rm-rf
The key_here is_the unavailability of non-carrier branded_unrestricted Android
phones in_the US._If I get_subsidized by the carrier when purchasing_the
phone, dealing with_crapware and restriction is part of_the_cost of getting
$400_or_so_off the_price of the_phone_at purchase_time.

Ideally_I could make a choice to_buy_an Andriod phone from a manufacturer with
no_branding and no restrictions,_pay_full price for it,_and accept that the
additional cost_is what I'm willing to pay_for an_unrestricted, unbranded
phone._The inability to purchase a phone like that is the real_problem, not
the restrictions placed on carrier_subsidized phones.

Two years ago_I bought_an_unrestricted HTC Diamond_with_Winmo 6.1._I paid over
$600 for the phone and_the privilege_of being able to do whatever_I want with
the phone._The_$400 extra over a branded/restricted phone,_spread out over 24
months, is $17/month_for the privilege of being_able_to_doink around with a
phone.

Having done_that once, I'm leaning toward putting_up with the_crapware and
restrictions and saving the $400. I_figure_that in two years, I probably_only
_really__used a couple of third party_apps._Most_of the rest that I_tried were
annoying memory leaks and crashes_waiting to happen - barely better