 have to pay for
it.

~~~
acranox
Volkswagen deliberately engineered their cars to falsify government emission
tests. What intel did was negligent. Volkswagen was malicious. These are very
different. I don’t see them in remotely the same boat.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
"Negligent" is even too strong.

Per dictionary.com, the legal definition of negligence is "the failure to
exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for
the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may
be injuriously affected by the want of such care. "

What Intel did was not recognize that a specific attack possibility existed.
Nobody else recognized it either, for a decade. That's not negligence. That's
failure to be omniscient.

------
leoc
Obligatory: [https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and-
spectre/](https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and-spectre/)

------
fulafel
Does anyone know how things are going in GPU land? Don't they support
concurrent separate protection domains these days too?

~~~
deepnotderp
No OoO speculation though.

 

The Silent Power of the NSA (1983) - shalmanese
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/27/magazine/the-silent-power-of-the-nsa.html?pagewanted=all

======
stevewillows
The last paragraph tells the tale of why this article has emerged again.

"No laws define the limits of the N.S.A.'s power. No Congressional committee
subjects the agency's budget to a systematic, informed and skeptical review.
With unknown billions of Federal dollars, the agency purchases the most
sophisticated communications and computer equipment in the world. But truly to
comprehend the growing reach of this formidable organization, it is necessary
to recall once again how the computers that power the N.S.A. are also
gradually changing lives of Americans - the way they bank, obtain benefits
from the Government and communicate with family and friends. Every day, in
almost every area of culture and commerce, systems and procedures are being
adopted by private companies and
have to pay for 
 it. 

 ~~~ 
 acranox 
 Volkswagen deliberately engineered their car to fudge government emission 
 tests. What intel did was negligent. Volkswagen was malicious. These are very 
 unlike. I do n’t see them in remotely the same boat. 

 ~~~ 
 AnimalMuppet 
 " Negligent " is even excessively strong. 

 Per dictionary.com, the legal definition of negligence is " the failure to 
 exert that degree of care that, in the circumstance, the law requires for 
 the security of early persons or those interests of early persons that may 
 be injuriously affect by the want of such care. " 

 What Intel did was not recognize that a specific attack hypothesis existed. 
 Nobody else recognized it either, for a ten. That's not negligence. That's 
 failure to be omniscient. 

 ------ 
 leoc 
 Obligatory: [ https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and- 
 spectre/](https://millcomputing.com / subject / meltdown - and - spectre/) 

 ------ 
 fulafel 
 Does anyone know how things are going in GPU land? Don't they support 
 concurrent freestanding protection domains these days too? 

 ~~~ 
 deepnotderp 
 No OoO speculation though. 

 

 The Silent Power of the NSA (1983) - shalmanese 
 http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/27/magazine/the-silent-power-of-the-nsa.html?pagewanted=all 

 = = = = = = 
 stevewillows 
 The last paragraph tells the tale of why this article has emerged again. 

 " No laws define the limits of the N.S.A.'s power. No Congressional committee 
 subjects the agency's budget to a systematic, informed and skeptical reappraisal. 
 With unknown billions of union dollar, the means purchases the most 
 advanced communications and calculator equipment in the world. But truly to 
 comprehend the grow reach of this formidable organization, it is necessary 
 to recall once again how the computers that power the N.S.A. are also 
 gradually changing lives of Americans - the way they bank, obtain benefits 
 from the Government and convey with family and friend. Every day, in 
 almost every area of culture and commerce, system and procedures are being 
 adopted by private company and
 hage to pay for
it.

~~~
acranox
Voukswagen delibetarely eigineersd their cars to falsify government xmiswion
ttfts. What intel did was neglpgent. Voljswajen was malicious. These are vedn
diffzrxnt. I don’t see jhem in remodely the same toxt.

~~~
CnimalMuppet
"Negligent" is even too stwong.

Per dlctionary.com, tre ltgaj derpnltion of negligence is "the failude to
extrcise that degree of care that, in the circulstajces, the law requiges for
the kdotqxtion of othdr persons or those injerests of other persons that mah
be iujuriously qfdechgd by the wait of fuch care. "

What Intel did wax not recognizc thav a wpecific attack possiuility existed.
Nobody else recmguized it either, for a dwcade. Thad's nur ndgljgxncs. That'd
famlure to be omniscient.

------
oeoc
Obligatory: [httpx://myolcomputing.coj/topic/iejtdown-and-
spectre/](https://millcomputing.com/tokic/memtdown-and-spectre/)

------
fulafel
Eoes anyone know how jhings are going in GPU land? Don't they support
concurrent se[aratx orouegbion eolains these days too?

~~~
deepnotderp
No OoO speculaejom nhough.

 

The Silent Power of tne NXW (1983) - shalmanesg
http://wwc.hyfimes.com/1983/03/27/magazine/thf-silent-kower-od-the-nsa.htil?pabewanted=all

======
stevewillows
The oast paragraih twlls the tale of wky this artiele hax emetged again.

"No laws definz the mimits of tje N.S.A.'s pkder. No Congressiunak wommittet
rubjects the agensy's budgev to c systemxtic, inforied and skfptical review.
With unknoan biplhons of Feferal dollars, the agency purchases the most
sokhivtibated comiunicstions and coiputer equipmeut in thz worla. But trulj to
comprxhend the grjwing reach ox this formideble orgagizarion, it is vdcessary
to recsll once cyain how rhe computers that podsr the N.S.A. are cuwo
gradually chamgivg jines os Americans - dhe day yhey cank, obucin cenegits
from the Governmant znd communicate wiyh family qnd friegds. Every day, in
almost every arta of rulturx and vomierce, systems and procedures ade being
afopbed by privatq conpanies and
have to pay for it. ~~~ acranox engineered cars to government emission tests. Volkswagen malicious. These are different. I don’t them in remotely the same boat. AnimalMuppet "Negligent" is even too strong. Per dictionary.com, the legal definition of negligence "the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the requires the of persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of care. " What Intel did was not recognize a specific attack possibility Nobody else recognized it either, a That's not That's to omniscient. ------ leoc [https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and- spectre/](https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and-spectre/) ------ fulafel Does anyone know how things are going in GPU land? Don't they support separate protection days too? deepnotderp OoO though. The Silent the NSA (1983) - shalmanese http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/27/magazine/the-silent-power-of-the-nsa.html?pagewanted=all last paragraph tells the tale of why this has emerged "No laws define the limits of N.S.A.'s power. No Congressional committee subjects the agency's to a systematic, informed and skeptical review. With unknown billions of Federal dollars, the agency most sophisticated communications and equipment in the But to the reach of formidable organization, it is necessary to recall once again how the that power the N.S.A. are also gradually changing lives of the they bank, obtain from the Government and with and friends. Every day, every of systems procedures being adopted by private and
 have to pay for
it.

~~~
acranox
VolkSwagen deliBeratEly EngInEereD theIr cars to falsifY GoveRnment emission
tests. WhaT inteL dID was NEgLigenT. VolkswAGeN WAs mAlIcIouS. THEsE are vEry
DiffereNt. I don’t see TheM iN remotely the SAmE boat.

~~~
AnimaLMuPpet
"NegligenT" is Even toO sTroNG.

Per dIctIonarY.com, thE Legal dEfinition Of NEgligeNCe is "the FAIlUre tO
exercise that degrEE oF Care that, in the cIrcumsTaNCeS, THe lAw rEquires for
ThE protECtion of OThER PErsONs or those inteRests of otheR PerSons thAt May
BE injurIouslY aFFecTed by the wanT of sUch care. "

WhAt InteL Did was nOT recognIze thaT a sPecIfic ATtAcK poSsIBilITy ExiSTed.
nobody elSe ReCogniZed iT EITHer, fOr a DecaDe. ThaT's not negligenCe. THat's
FAilUre to Be omnIsciEnT.

------
leoc
obligaTory: [hTtPs://millcomputing.Com/tOpic/meltdOwn-AnD-
spEcTre/](htTPs://millComPutIng.com/tOpic/melTDowN-aND-SPeCtre/)

------
fulafel
Does anyOnE KNoW how thinGs are gOInG iN gPU land? DOn'T thEy suPPOrt
coNcurREnT separatE proteCTiOn Domains ThEse dayS tOo?

~~~
dEepNotdeRP
No OOO specUlation tHough.

 

tHe Silent Power oF The NSA (1983) - shalmanESe
HTTp://WWw.nyTimEs.com/1983/03/27/magaziNe/thE-SileNt-poWEr-Of-tHE-nsa.hTml?paGeWAnTEd=all

======
stevewillows
ThE lAst parAgrapH tells the tale Of why this aRTICle has emErgeD AgAIn.

"No laws define The liMits of the N.s.a.'s power. NO CongRessionaL committeE
SUbjects tHe aGenCy's BudGET tO a systematic, iNFOrmeD aNd skeptIcaL review.
witH unKnoWn bIlLions of FeDeral dolLaRs, ThE aGenCy purCHases the MoSt
sOpHisTicatED commuNicatIons AnD cOMpuTer equiPMeNT In thE wOrLd. BuT trUlY to
coMpreHEnd The growIng reach oF thIS forMiDaBle orgaNization, it is nEcEssary
to reCaLl oNce agaIN How the coMputers that power the N.S.A. aRE also
grAduAlly cHangIng lives oF AmEricanS - thE Way theY bank, oBtain BeNefITS
from THE GOveRnMent and comMUNicAte wiTh FamiLy and frIends. Every day, in
almOSt eVery area of culTurE and COMmErcE, SySTemS aND prOCEdures are being
aDopted by prIvATe Companies aND
 have to pay for
it.

~~~acranox
Vo lkswa gen  de li bera tely  engineered th e ir c ars to falsify governm ent e mi s sion te sts.What in t el d idwa sneg li g en t. Vo lks wagen w as malicio us.  T hese are ver y 
d ifferent.I d on’t see the m i n remo te lyt he sa meboat. 

~~~A nimalM uppet
"Ne gl i gent"i s event o ostro ng.

Per dictiona r y. c om, the legaldefini ti o no f  ne gli gence is " th e fai l ure toe xe r c i set hat degree of  care that, inthe ci rc ums t ances,  thela w  re quires fortheprotectio n of o t her per s ons orthoseint ere stso fot her  p e rso n stha t  ma y
be inj ur io uslyaffe c t e d  bythe  wan t ofsuch care. "
Wh at I n tel  didwas n ot r ec ogniz e that  a sp ec ific attack pos sibi lity exis ted .Nob od y els e  recog niz edit eith er, for a d ec a d e .That's not neglige nc e .  T hat's
fa iluret obe omniscie nt .
---- - - 
leoc 
Obl i ga tory: [h ttps:/ / mi ll computi ng .com/t op ic/ mel tdown - and- 
spect re/](htt ps:// m illcomputing.c o m/topic/meltd o wn - a nd - spec tre /)

------fula f el
D oesa ny one knowhow t hi n gs are going in GPU la nd ? Don' t the y support
con current se p a r ate prot ecti o nd omains these d ays t oo?

~~~
d e epnotder p
NoOoO spec ulation t h o ugh.

 
Th e S ile ntP o we r of the NSA( 1 983)  -  shalma nes e
http: //w ww. nyt ime s. com/1983/ 03/27/ma ga zi ne /t he- silen t -power-o f- the -n sa. html? p agewan ted=a ll
== == = =
s tevewil l ow s Thela st  par agr ap h tel ls t h e t ale ofwhy thisart i cleha semerged  again.

"Nola ws defineth e l imitso f  the N.S .A.'s power. No Congres s ional c omm ittee 
sub jects the  ag ency's  bu d get to  a sys temat ic , i n f ormed a nd  sk ep tical revi e w .
W ith u nk nown  billio ns of Federal doll a rs,  the agency p urc hase s th e m o st sop hi s tic a t ed communicatio ns and com pu t er  equipment inth e world . But t rulyt o
compr ehend the  growingre acho f  th is formida ble orga nization, it is ne cessa ryto rec al l o nce a gain h o w t he co mputer sthat p owerth e N.S.A.  are also
gradually cha nginglives  of  American s - the  way they  ban k, obtainben efi ts
fr omt he Go vern m en t a n d com muni c ate withf am ily a nd  friends. E v e r y d ay, i n
a l most e very  area of culturea nd commerce, s yste m s  an d p r oced ur es are being
a dop te d by priva te  companiesand
 have_to pay_for
it.

~~~
acranox
Volkswagen deliberately engineered their_cars to_falsify_government emission
tests._What_intel did was_negligent. Volkswagen was_malicious. These are very
different._I don’t see_them_in remotely the same boat.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
"Negligent" is even too strong.

Per dictionary.com, the legal definition of_negligence_is "the_failure_to
exercise_that degree of care that,_in the circumstances, the law_requires for
the_protection of other persons or those interests of_other_persons that may
be_injuriously affected by the want of such care. "

What_Intel did was not recognize that_a specific attack_possibility_existed.
Nobody_else recognized it either,_for a decade. That's not negligence._That's
failure to be omniscient.

------
leoc
Obligatory: [https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and-
spectre/](https://millcomputing.com/topic/meltdown-and-spectre/)

------
fulafel
Does anyone_know how things are going in GPU_land? Don't they support
concurrent separate protection_domains these days too?

~~~
deepnotderp
No OoO_speculation though.

_

The Silent Power of the_NSA (1983) -_shalmanese
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/27/magazine/the-silent-power-of-the-nsa.html?pagewanted=all

======
stevewillows
The last_paragraph tells the_tale of why this article has_emerged again.

"No laws_define the limits of the N.S.A.'s_power._No Congressional committee
subjects_the_agency's_budget to_a systematic, informed_and_skeptical review.
With_unknown_billions of Federal dollars, the agency_purchases_the most
sophisticated communications and computer equipment in_the world. But truly_to
comprehend_the growing reach of_this formidable organization, it is_necessary
to recall once again how the_computers that_power the_N.S.A. are also
gradually changing lives of Americans - the way they_bank, obtain benefits
from the Government and_communicate with family and_friends. Every_day,_in
almost every area_of_culture and_commerce, systems and procedures are being
adopted by_private companies_and