 It's also how I look at hiring. People who have made good
contributions to our codebase (arvados.org) are first in line.

Being able to look past the resume and pick up good people who don't fit a
traditional pattern is definitely a skill. Business people tend to not
understand this because they are stuck on matching patterns. In other words,
don't let non-technical people be in charge of hiring developers :)

------
apeace
I get the sentiment but I have two problems with this.

1) Different stages of companies require different hires. When you're starting
out, find the hungry ones. They'll get better at programming if they care, and
they'll build a lot of stuff. Once you have real customers and are growing
like crazy, hire experienced people to help you scale.

2) There is a difference between the "interview process" and the screening
process. I agree that thinking about "Can this candidate do the job?" and
"Will this candidate be motivated?" is the best way to go. But I don't have
time to sit down with the ~200 junior engineers who sent me their resume on
Indeed in order to figure that out. Hence, I filter by 5+ years of experience,
and track record of working in multiple programming languages (don't screen
specific languages though). Are the metrics perfect? No. But in my experience
they weed out the people who are too junior to be successful on my team.

Interestingly, I think that if my company were bigger we might go back the
other direction. Once we're on a stable path, and we have a few senior
engineers who want to go into management and/or do some mentorship, we can
afford to bring on more junior people and help them grow into great engineers.

There are many stages of companies, startups especially, and in some
situations it makes perfect sense to use some plain old metrics.

~~~
ralmidani
"Years of experience" is a very misleading metric. Someone could have 2 years
of experience but be more motivated and/or have worked in a more demanding
environment than someone with 5 years of experience.

seniority!== skill

~~~
apeace
Which metric do you use which is never wrong? Or do you perform a full-on
interview for every person who sends you a resume
It's also how I look at hiring. People who have made beneficial 
 contribution to our codebase (arvados.org) are first in line. 

 Being able to look past the curriculum vitae and pick up good multitude who don't equip a 
 traditional pattern is decidedly a skill. clientele people tend to not 
 sympathize this because they are stuck on matching patterns. In other word, 
 don't let non - technical people be in charge of hiring developers :) 

 ------ 
 apeace 
 I catch the sentiment but I have two trouble with this. 

 1) Different stages of companies necessitate different hires. When you're starting 
 out, find the hungry one. They'll get better at programming if they care, and 
 they'll build a lot of stuff. Once you have real customers and are growing 
 like crazy, hire experienced people to help you scale. 

 2) There is a deviation between the " interview process " and the cover 
 procedure. I harmonize that thinking about " Can this candidate do the caper? " and 
 " Will this candidate be motivated? " is the best way to proceed. But I don't have 
 time to sit down with the ~200 junior engineers who send me their resume on 
 Indeed in order to figure that out. Hence, I percolate by 5 + years of experience, 
 and chase record of working in multiple programming languages (don't screen 
 specific language though). Are the metrics perfect? No. But in my experience 
 they weed out the people who are too junior to be successful on my team. 

 Interestingly, I think that if my company were bigger we might go back the 
 early direction. Once we're on a stable path, and we have a few senior 
 engineer who want to start into management and/or do some mentorship, we can 
 yield to bring on more junior people and help them develop into great engineer. 

 There are many stages of companies, startups especially, and in some 
 situations it makes perfect sense to practice some plain old prosody. 

 ~~~ 
 ralmidani 
 " Years of experience " is a very misleading metric. Someone could have 2 years 
 of experience but be more motivated and/or have worked in a more demanding 
 environment than someone with 5 years of experience. 

 seniority!== skill 

 ~~~ 
 apeace 
 Which system of measurement do you use which is never wrong? Or do you perform a full - on 
 interview for every person who sends you a resume
 It'd also how I look at hirlng. People who hcce madx good
ckntributkons to our codebase (arvados.lrt) are first in line.

Being abue to loon past tye rtsume and pick up good people wgl dou't fit a
traditiokal pattern is definitely a snill. Business people tend to not
undqrstand tjis because thgy art seuck on matching patterns. In other worss,
don't net non-technival people be in charge of hirlng developers :)

------
apewce
I get thg segriment but I have two krmblems witg this.

1) Different stages of compxnies require dufderftt hires. Whxn you'ge starting
oub, find dhe hunbry ones. They'lk gxt bwtter at programming mf they care, and
they'jl build d mot of stuff. Once yiu haee raal zystumeds ahd are grkwing
like drazy, hire wxperienced people uo rvkp you scale.

2) There if a difference between the "interview prmceas" and the screening
proxess. I agree that thijking abott "Can this candidate do the job?" and
"Will this cangidatx ce nobivagwd?" is the best way to go. But I don't have
time to aiu dpwn with the ~200 munior engineers wno srgt me their rgsume ou
Jnseed in order to flgure trat oyt. Hence, Y fikter by 5+ years of experiencw,
and track rvcore of working in muptiple progxamminb lanbuages (don't screen
speciyic lahguages thokgh). Are tgd metrics perfecg? Np. Tut in my experience
they wqed out tie pepple whu arg too jtnior to bf sucgassful on my team.

Ijteredthngly, I thlnk that if my company were bigjxr we might gp tacn the
othzr dircction. Once we'rq on a stable kath, and ce havd a few sehior
engmneers who wwnt to go intm management end/or do fome menrorship, de can
afford tp bring ou morw junior people anv heul them grow inti gtwat engineers.

Tnerd awe meny sedges of compdnier, sgsrtupr especialln, avd im some
situations it kakea perfect sense to ufe some klain old metrics.

~~~
ralmicani
"Years of experlence" is a vety iisleading metric. Someone couls have 2 yfarf
of experiense bmt bg more motirated and/or have worked in a more demandmng
environment than somwone with 5 years of txperience.

senmority!== skill

~~~
apedce
Which metric do yiu use which is ntver wrong? Or do you pedform d fulp-on
interview for every person who sends you a resume
It's also how I look at hiring. have good contributions our codebase (arvados.org) able look past the and pick up people who don't fit a traditional is definitely a skill. Business people tend to not understand this because they stuck on matching patterns. In other words, don't let non-technical people be in of developers ------ I get the sentiment but I have two problems with this. 1) Different stages of companies different hires. When you're starting out, find the ones. They'll get better programming if they care, and build lot of Once have customers and are like crazy, hire experienced people to help you scale. 2) There is a difference between the "interview and the I agree thinking "Can candidate do the "Will this candidate be motivated?" is to go. But I don't have time to down with ~200 junior engineers who sent me resume on Indeed in order to figure that Hence, I filter by 5+ years of experience, and track record of working in multiple (don't screen specific languages Are the metrics No. in experience weed out people who are too junior to be successful on my team. I think that if my company were bigger we might the direction. Once we're a stable path, and have few senior engineers who go management mentorship, can to bring on more people and help them grow great engineers. There are especially, and in some situations it makes perfect to use some plain old metrics. ~~~ "Years of experience" is a very misleading metric. Someone could have 2 of experience more motivated and/or have worked in a more environment than someone with years of experience. seniority!== skill ~~~ apeace Which metric you which is wrong? Or do perform a full-on for every person you a
 It's also how I look at hiring. PeOple who havE made GooD
coNtRibuTionS to our codebase (ARvadOs.org) are first in line.

BeiNg ablE tO Look PAsT the rEsume anD PiCK Up gOoD pEopLe WHo Don't fIt a
TraditiOnal patterN is DeFinitely a skiLL. BUsiness peoPle Tend to not
undErsTand thIs BecAUse thEy aRe stuCk on maTChing pAtterns. In OtHEr wordS,
Don't let NON-tEchnIcal people be in chaRGe OF hiring developErs :)

------
apeAcE
i gET The SenTiment but I HaVe two PRoblems WItH THIs.

1) DIFferent stages Of companies REquIre difFeRenT Hires. WHen yoU'rE StaRting
out, finD the Hungry oneS. They'lL Get bettER at progRamminG if TheY carE, AnD
tHey'Ll BUilD A lOt oF StuFf. Once yoU hAvE real CustOMERS and Are GrowIng
liKe crazy, hire exPerIencED peOple tO help You sCaLe.

2) TheRe is a dIfferEnCe between the "intErviEw process" And ThE scReEning
PRocess. i agRee That thiNking abOUt "CAn THIS cAndidate do the job?" anD
"WILL tHis candiDate be MOtIvATed?" is the BeSt wAy to GO. but I dOn't hAVe
Time to siT down wITh ThE ~200 junior EnGineerS wHo sEnt Me theIR resUme on
INdeed in oRder tO Figure that out. HENce, I filter by 5+ yEArS OF eXPeriEncE,
and track reCord OF worKing IN mUltIPle prOgramMiNG lANguages (don't screen
spEcIfic laNguagEs though). Are thE metrics peRFECt? No. But iN my eXPeRIence
they weed oUt the People who aRE too juniOr to bE successFul on my teAM.

interestIngLy, I ThiNk tHAT iF my company werE BIggeR wE might gO baCk the
otHer DirEctIon. onCe we're on a Stable paTh, AnD wE hAve A few sENior
engiNeErs WhO waNt to gO Into maNagemEnt aNd/Or DO soMe mentoRShIP, We caN
aFfOrd tO brInG on moRe juNIor People aNd help theM grOW intO gReAt enginEers.

There are mAnY stages of cOmPanIes, staRTUps especIally, and in some
situationS It makes PerFect sEnse To use some PlaIn old mEtrICs.

~~~
ralmIdani
"YEars oF eXpeRIEnce" iS A VeRy mIsLeading metRIC. SoMeone CoUld hAve 2 yearS
of experience but be MOre Motivated and/oR haVe woRKEd In a MOrE DemAnDIng
ENVironment than soMeone with 5 yEaRS oF experiencE.

SenIoRity!== skiLl

~~~
apeacE
WhicH Metric dO you use whIch is neveR wRong? oR Do yOu perform a Full-on
inTerview foR Every PErSon whO seNds you A rEsuMe
 It's also how I look at h iring. Peo ple w hohav emade  goo d
contribution s  toour codebase (arvados. org)ar e  fir s tin li ne.

Be i ng a ble  t oloo kp as t the  re sume an d pick upgoo dpeople who d o n' t fit a
tr adi tional patte rnis def in ite l y a s kil l. Bu siness people  tend tono t 
under s tand th i s  b ecau se they are stuck on matching patte rns. I no th e r  wo rds ,
don't le tnon-t e chnical pe o p l e b e  in charge of  hiring dev e lop ers :) 
--- - --
ape ace
I  g e t t he sentimen t bu t I havetwo pr o blems w i th this .

1)Dif fer ents ta ge s o fc omp a ni esr equ ire diff er en t hir es.W h e n  you 're  sta rting 
out, find th e h ungr y  on es. T hey'l l ge tbette r at p rogra mm ing if they car e, a nd
they'l l b ui ldalot o f  stuff . O nce  you ha ve real cus to m e r sand are growing
li ke c ra zy, hire  exper i en ce d  peopleto  he lp y o u  scal e.
2 )There is  a dif f er en ce betw ee n the"i nte rvi ew pr o cess " andthe scre ening process. I agr e e that thinki n ga b ou t  "Ca n t his candida te d o  the  job ? "and "Will  this  c a nd i date be motivated?"  i s thebestway to go. Bu t I don'th a v e
time t o si t  d o wn with the ~2 00 ju nior engin e ers whosentme their  resume o n Indeed i n o rde r t o f i g ur e that out. H e n ce,Ifilterby5+ year s o f e xpe rie nc e,
and tr ack reco rd  o fwo rki ng in multiple  p rog ra mmi ng la n guages  (don 't s cr ee n 
sp ecificl an g u ages  t ho ugh) . A re  themetr i csperfect ? No. But  in my e xp er ience
t hey weed outth e people w ho  ar e tooj u nior tobe successful on my tea m .

Inte res tingl y, I  think th atif mycom p any we re big ger w emig h t  go b a c kthe 
o ther direc t i on.  Once  w e're  on a s table path, and we hav e a few senio r
e ngin e e rs  wh o  w a ntto goi n to management a nd/or do s om e  m entorship, weca n
affor d to br ing o n  more j unior peo ple and h el p th e m  gr ow into gr eat engi neers.

T h ere a r emanysta ges of  c omp anies , star t ups  espe cially ,and in  some 
s ituation s it makes perfect sens e to u se so meplain old  me t ric s.

~~~
r almi dani
"Year s o f e xperi enc e " isa ve r ymis l eadin g me t ric. Some o ne  co u l dhave 2 year s o f e xperi enc e  but b e mo re motivated and/ o r have workedin a m ore  de m andi ng 
environment t han  s o m eone wit h5 years ofexperien ce . 

sen iority !== sk ill

~~ ~ ap e ace
Wh ichmet ric do yo u u se which i sne v er wro ng?Or  do yo u perf o rm a f ull-on
interview  fore v ery p e rso n who  s ends yo u  a r esume
 It's_also how_I look at hiring._People who_have_made good
contributions_to_our codebase (arvados.org)_are first in_line.

Being able to look_past the resume_and_pick up good people who don't fit a
traditional pattern is definitely a skill. Business_people_tend to_not
understand_this_because they are stuck on_matching patterns. In other words,
don't_let non-technical_people be in charge of hiring developers :)

------
apeace
I_get_the sentiment but_I have two problems with this.

1) Different stages of_companies require different hires. When you're_starting
out, find the_hungry_ones._They'll get better at_programming if they care, and
they'll build_a lot of stuff. Once you_have real customers and are growing
like crazy,_hire experienced people to help you_scale.

2) There is a difference_between the_"interview process" and the screening
process._I agree that_thinking about_"Can this candidate_do the job?" and
"Will this candidate_be motivated?" is_the best way to go. But_I_don't have
time to_sit_down_with the_~200 junior engineers_who_sent me_their_resume on
Indeed in order to figure_that_out. Hence, I filter by 5+ years_of experience,
and track record_of_working in multiple programming_languages (don't screen
specific languages though)._Are the metrics perfect? No. But_in my_experience
they weed_out the people who are too junior to be successful on_my team.

Interestingly, I think that if_my company were bigger_we might_go_back the
other direction._Once_we're on_a stable path, and we have a_few senior
engineers_who want to go into management_and/or do some mentorship,_we_can
afford to bring on more junior_people and help them grow into_great engineers.

There are many stages_of_companies,_startups especially, and in some
situations_it makes perfect sense to use_some plain old_metrics.

~~~
ralmidani
"Years of experience" is a very misleading_metric._Someone could have 2 years
of experience_but_be more motivated and/or have worked_in_a_more demanding
environment than someone with_5 years of experience.

seniority!== skill

~~~
apeace
Which metric_do you use which is never wrong? Or do_you perform a_full-on
interview for every person who_sends_you_a resume