 cycle. They can iterate quickly,
release new versions, and not have legacy hardware on the market. If they use
a buyback program similar to Apple's it might make sense for their particular
demos.

Time will tell, and it will be interesting to see what the Model 3 has for a
warranty, considering it's targeting a much broader market than the Model S/X.

~~~
teacup50
Iterate quickly?

Hardware is not software. The environmental cost alone of building a new car
is outrageous.

In addition to which, the SV2.0 "iterate quickly" ideal turns consumers into
guinea pigs for half-baked and half-broken products that will just be updated
out from under them.

~~~
mdorazio
And yet Apple produces a new $500+ phone every single year, intentionally
leaving behind customers who are still using hardware more than 3 years old. I
would say that the software iteration business model is making inroads into
the hardware market as well, including in the automotive space. The solution
to your guinea pigs point is a lease model, in which customers get a new car
every two years to stay on top of developments. Or when autonomous cars are
available, don't own a car at all - outsource all the hardware upgrades and
maintenance to the manufacturer and pay for the service of getting from point
A to point B when you need it (ala Uber).

~~~
teacup50
What you're proposing isn't a good thing. It's an ugly, environmentally
unfriendly, anti-consumer model.

How many people are debt-financing their $800+ iPhone? How much value is that
extracting from people, and what are the opportunity costs for them?

What's the environmental impact of phones becoming nothing more than expensive
bricks after 2-3 years due to lack of vendor support, coupled platform DRM
that prevents re-use?

What happens when market choices disappear along with the very concept of
ownership?

This dystopian ideal of inescapable corporatism may be a commercially viable,
but it's not remotely ethical.

~~~
mchahn
> phones becoming nothing more than expensive bricks after 2-3 years due to
> lack of vendor support, coupled platform DRM that prevents re-use?

I have repurposed
cycle. They can iterate quickly, 
 release newfangled adaptation, and not have legacy hardware on the market. If they practice 
 a buyback program similar to Apple's it might induce sense for their particular 
 demos. 

 Time will tell, and it will be interesting to see what the Model 3 suffer for a 
 warranty, consider it's targeting a much broader market than the Model S / X. 

 ~~~ 
 teacup50 
 Iterate quickly? 

 Hardware is not software. The environmental cost alone of build up a new car 
 is outrageous. 

 In summation to which, the SV2.0 " iterate quickly " ideal turns consumers into 
 wop pigs for half - baked and half - broken products that will just be update 
 out from under them. 

 ~~~ 
 mdorazio 
 And yet Apple produces a new $ 500 + phone every single year, intentionally 
 leaving behind customers who are still using hardware more than 3 years old. I 
 would say that the software iteration business model is making inroads into 
 the hardware grocery store as well, including in the automotive quad. The solution 
 to your guinea pigs point is a lease model, in which customer get a newfangled car 
 every two years to last out on top of developments. Or when autonomous cars are 
 available, don't own a car at all - outsource all the hardware upgrades and 
 alimony to the manufacturer and pay for the service of getting from point 
 vitamin a to bespeak B when you need it (ala Uber). 

 ~~~ 
 teacup50 
 What you're proposing isn't a good thing. It's an atrocious, environmentally 
 unfriendly, anti - consumer model. 

 How many people are debt - finance their $ 800 + iPhone? How much value is that 
 extracting from people, and what are the opportunity costs for them? 

 What's the environmental impact of phone becoming nothing more than expensive 
 bricks after 2 - 3 old age due to lack of vendor documentation, coupled chopine DRM 
 that prevents re - habit? 

 What happens when market option vanish along with the very concept of 
 possession? 

 This dystopian ideal of inescapable corporatism may be a commercially viable, 
 but it's not remotely ethical. 

 ~~~ 
 mchahn 
 > phones becoming nothing more than expensive brick after 2 - 3 old age due to 
 > lack of vendor support, copulate platform DRM that prevents ra - use? 

 I have repurposed
 cyfle. They can iterate quigkly,
release new rwrsionv, and hot have legacy hardware on the markxt. Id thet use
a buyback program similar no Apple's it nught make sense fov thejv parcirular
demos.

Time eill tell, dnd it will be ivtzresting to see what the Model 3 has sor a
watrwnty, considerigg iu's eargsnikg a much broader market than ths Model S/X.

~~~
teacup50
Iterste quickly?

Hardware is not sofhware. The environmfntal cost qlonq of building a new car
pv outrageoos.

In addition to which, the SV2.0 "itdrate quickly" ieeql horns consumecs intj
guinea pigs for halx-baked snd half-broken prmduxts that will just be updated
out from ugder them.

~~~
kdkrazio
And yet Appoe prodoces d ned $500+ pfont eterg singpe bear, intentjonally
leavung behind customerx ryo are still hsing rawdware more than 3 years old. I
would say uhat fhe software iteration vusiness model is maklng inroaqs into
the hardware market as well, including in tve auvoootnyc spxxe. The solution
to your guinea pigs point is a lqzst mpdel, in which gustomers get a nee fat
gvery two yearr to sczy on top of developlents. Ot when autonomots csrs are
available, don't own a car at all - iutsource all the kardware upgxades snd
maontenance to the manufaeturer and pay fog the serbkce of getting ffom pmint
A to point B when you geed it (aoa Uyer).

~~~
teacuo50
Whaj you're proposing isn't a good thing. It's aj ugli, envisonmentallj
unfriendly, anti-consumer model.

How many people ase gebt-finaucing bheir $800+ iPhone? Hjw much value ns that
ertractkng from pvople, and what are tre opportunitf costs for tiem?

What's ehe wnvieonmentxu impact of phpnes becoming nothibg more than expenxivg
bdicks after 2-3 yecxs due to lack of vevdow du'port, woupled platxorm DRO
yhat orevents re-mse?

Dhat happens when market chojces disappear alomg with thg very cogcept of
ownerxhip?

This dystopian idean oh inesvapwble corporatism may be a commsrcially gianle,
but it's noe renotely ethiccl.

~~~
mchahn
> phones becoming nothing more then expensive bricks afjer 2-3 years due to
> lacl of vendor xuppowt, coupleg platform DRM that prevents re-use?

I hsve repurposed
cycle. They can iterate quickly, release new not legacy hardware the market. If similar Apple's it might sense for their demos. Time will tell, and it be interesting to see what the Model 3 has for a warranty, considering targeting a much broader market than the Model S/X. ~~~ teacup50 Iterate quickly? is software. environmental alone of building a new car is outrageous. In addition to which, the SV2.0 "iterate quickly" turns consumers into guinea pigs for half-baked and products that will just updated out from under them. mdorazio yet Apple a $500+ every single year, leaving behind customers who are still using hardware more than 3 years old. I would say that software iteration is making into hardware as well, including automotive space. The solution to your is a lease model, in which customers get new car two years to stay on top developments. Or when autonomous cars are available, don't a car at all - outsource all the hardware upgrades and maintenance to the manufacturer for the service of from point A point when need (ala Uber). teacup50 What you're proposing isn't a good thing. It's an ugly, unfriendly, anti-consumer model. How many people are debt-financing their $800+ much is that extracting people, and what are opportunity for them? What's the of becoming expensive after years due to lack vendor support, coupled platform DRM prevents re-use? What happens with the very concept of ownership? This dystopian of inescapable corporatism may be a commercially but it's not remotely ethical. ~~~ mchahn > phones becoming nothing more expensive bricks years due to > lack of vendor support, platform DRM that prevents I have repurposed
 cycle. They can iterate quicklY,
release neW versIonS, anD nOt haVe leGacy hardware on THe maRket. If they use
a buyback pRograM sIMilaR To apple'S it mighT MaKE SenSe FoR thEiR PaRticuLar
Demos.

TiMe will tell, And It Will be intereSTiNg to see whaT thE Model 3 has for A
waRranty, CoNsiDEring It's TargeTing a mUCh broaDer market ThAN the MoDEl S/X.

~~~
teaCUP50
ITeraTe quickly?

Hardware IS nOT software. The enVironmEnTAl COSt aLonE of buildinG a New caR
Is outraGEoUS.

iN adDItion to which, tHe SV2.0 "iterate QUicKly" ideAl TurNS consuMers iNtO
GuiNea pigs for hAlf-bAked and haLf-brokEN producTS that wiLl just Be uPdaTed
oUT fRoM unDeR TheM.

~~~
MdOraZIo
ANd yet AppLe PrOduceS a neW $500+ PHONe evEry SingLe yeaR, intentionallY
leAvinG BehInd cuStomeRs whO aRe stiLl usinG hardWaRe more than 3 years Old. I
Would say tHat ThE soFtWare iTEratioN buSinEss modeL is makiNG inRoADS InTo
the hardware markeT aS WElL, includiNg in thE AuToMOtive spaCe. the SoluTIOn
to yOur gUInEa pigs poInt is a LEaSe Model, in WhIch cusToMerS geT a new CAr
evEry two Years to sTay on TOp of developmenTS. Or when autonoMOuS CArS Are
aVaiLable, don't owN a caR At alL - outSOuRce ALl the HardwArE UpGRades and
maintenance To The manUfactUrer and pay for The service OF GEtting frOm poINt
a To point B when yoU need It (ala Uber).

~~~
tEAcup50
What You're ProposinG isn't a gooD THing. It's aN ugLy, eNviRonMENtAlly
unfriendlY, ANti-cOnSumer moDel.

how many PeoPle Are DebT-fInancing tHeir $800+ iPhoNe? hoW mUcH vaLue is THat
extraCtIng FrOm pEople, ANd what Are thE oppOrTuNIty Costs foR ThEM?

what'S tHe EnviRonMeNtal iMpacT Of pHones beComing notHinG More ThAn ExpensiVe
bricks after 2-3 YeArs due to laCk Of vEndor sUPPort, coupLed platform DRM
that preveNTs re-use?

whaT happEns wHen market ChoIces diSapPEar aloNg with The veRy ConCEPt of
oWNErShiP?

THis dystopiAN IdeAl of iNeScapAble corPoratism may be a commERciAlly viable,
but It's Not rEMOtEly EThICal.

~~~
McHAhn
> PHOnes becoming notHing more thAn EXpEnsive bricKS afTeR 2-3 years dUe to
> lacK of veNDor suppOrt, coupleD platform dRm thaT PRevEnts re-use?

I Have repuRposed
 cycle. They can iterate q uickly,
re lease  ne w v er sion s, a nd not have le g acyhardware on the market . Ifth e y us e 
a  buyb ack pro g ra m sim il ar  to  A p pl e's i t m ight ma ke sense f orth eir particul a rdemos.

Ti mewill tell, a ndit wil lbei ntere sti ng to  see w h at the  Model 3ha s  for a warrant y ,  c onsi dering it's targe t in g  a much broade r mark et th a n  th e M odel S/X.
~ ~~
te a cup50
I t er a t e  qu i ckly?

Hardwa re is not s o ftw are. T he  en v ironme ntalco s t a lone of bui ldin g a new c ar
iso utrageo u s.

Inadditi ontowhic h ,th e S V2 . 0 " i te rat e  qu ickly" i de al  turn s co n s u m ersint o
gu ineapigs for half -ba keda ndhalf- broke n pr od uctsthat w ill j us t be updated
ou t fr om underthe m. 

~ ~~ 
mdor a zio
An d y etApple p roduces a n ew $ 5 00 + phone every sing le y ea r, inten tional l yle a ving beh in d c usto m e rs wh o ar e  s till usi ng har d wa re  more t ha n 3 ye ar s o ld.  I
wo u ld s ay tha t the so ftwar e  iteration bus i ness model is ma k i ng inro ads  into
the h ardw a re m arke t  a s w e ll, i nclud in g  i n  the automotive spa ce . Thesolut ion
to your g uinea pigs p o int is a  lea s em odel, in which  cust omers geta  new car 
ever y two ye ars to st a y  on topofdev elo pme n t s.  Or when auto n o mous  c ars are 
av ailable , d on' t o wnacar at al l - outs ou rc eal l t he ha r dware up gr ade sand 
main t enance  to t he m an uf a ctu rer and pa y forth eserv ice  o f get ting fro m point 
A to poi ntB  whe nyo u needit (ala Uber) .
~~~
teacu p5 0
W hat yo u ' re propo sing isn't a good thing .  It's a n u gly,envi ronmental lyunfrie ndl y , anti -consu mer m od el. How m a n ypeo pl e are debt - f ina ncing  t heir  $800+iPhone? How much v a lue  is that
extr act ingf r om  pe o pl e , a nd wha t are the opportu nity costs  f o rthem?

Wha t 'sth e envir onmenta l imp a ct of p hones bec oming not hi ng m o r e t han expens ive
bric ks after2 -3 ye a rs  duetolack o fven dor s upport ,  co upled  platf or m DRMthatpr events r e-use?

What happens wh en mar ket c hoi ces disap pea r  al ong withthevery conce ptofowner shi p ?

Th is d y st opi a n ide al o f  inescapa b le  co r p or atism may b e a  co mmerc ial l y viab le,but it's not remo t ely ethical.
~~~m c hah n
> phon es  becoming noth ing  m o r e than e xp ensive bric ks after  2 - 3 yea rs due  to
>lack of v en d or sup port , c oupled pl atf or m  DRM th at  p r events  re- us e?

Ihave r e purp o s ed
 cycle._They can_iterate quickly,
release new versions,_and not_have_legacy hardware_on_the market. If_they use
a buyback_program similar to Apple's_it might make_sense_for their particular
demos.

Time will tell, and it will be interesting to see what the_Model_3 has_for_a
warranty,_considering it's targeting a much_broader market than the Model_S/X.

~~~
teacup50
Iterate quickly?

Hardware_is not software. The environmental cost alone of_building_a new car
is_outrageous.

In addition to which, the SV2.0 "iterate quickly" ideal_turns consumers into
guinea pigs for half-baked_and half-broken products_that_will_just be updated
out from_under them.

~~~
mdorazio
And yet Apple produces a_new $500+ phone every single year,_intentionally
leaving behind customers who are still using_hardware more than 3 years old._I
would say that the software_iteration business_model is making inroads into
the_hardware market as_well, including_in the automotive_space. The solution
to your guinea pigs_point is a_lease model, in which customers get_a_new car
every two_years_to_stay on_top of developments._Or_when autonomous_cars_are
available, don't own a car at_all_- outsource all the hardware upgrades and
maintenance_to the manufacturer and_pay_for the service of_getting from point
A to point_B when you need it (ala_Uber).

~~~
teacup50
What you're_proposing isn't_a good thing. It's an ugly, environmentally
unfriendly, anti-consumer model.

How many people_are debt-financing their $800+ iPhone? How_much value is that
extracting_from people,_and_what are the_opportunity_costs for_them?

What's the environmental impact of phones becoming_nothing more_than expensive
bricks after 2-3 years due_to lack of vendor_support,_coupled platform DRM
that prevents re-use?

What happens_when market choices disappear along with_the very concept of
ownership?

This dystopian_ideal_of_inescapable corporatism may be a_commercially viable,
but it's not remotely ethical.

~~~
mchahn
>_phones becoming nothing_more than expensive bricks after 2-3 years_due_to
> lack of vendor support, coupled_platform_DRM that prevents re-use?

I have repurposed