 serviceable and far less modular than they used to
be before. The military designs are the only exception from this unfortunate
trend, for the obvious reasons.

~~~
mcv
I've always loved the idea of the Citroen 2CV, which was famously easy to
repair (sometimes with some string and chewing gum), and trivial to modify.
But it's an old car and is not being made anymore, and no modern car really
seems to fit that niche.

------
callesgg
The first thing that hit my mind was that they are doing it the apple way,
apple is doing quite fine with its locked devices.

like most engineers I like to play with and explore my technical equipment but
for most people it is just a hasle.

~~~
soared
I had the same thought. How many people would ever even consider maintaining
their own car? I bet its insignificant in the face of Tesla's target market.

------
greggman
Given the cars have various levels of self driving it would seem like the
moment you mod your car Tesla would want nothing to do with you because you've
changed something that could cause a crash.

That seems in some way different from a non-self driving car. Of course you
should be able to do anything you want with your car but would it be
unreasonable if Tesla basically disabled all their software and services at
that moment? Basically making it clear if you mod the car they want no
responsibility in what happens when it's self driving.

------
rebootthesystem
Inherent issues with anything battery powered:

    
    
        - I have 20 year old grid powered drills, saws, 
          routers, sawzalls, sanders
        - They all work and in perfect condition
        - Same period: Three sets of battery powered drills
        - Technology changes: NiCd to Lithium
        - Battery pack voltage/form-factor EOL
        - Aftermarket batteries expensive crap
        - Good motor, gearbox, chuck discarded
        - Environmental impact of early EOL?
    

The Tesla scenario:

    
    
        - Will they be around in 20 years?
        - Will there be any parts for current cars?
        - Will you have access to service manuals, software and information?
    

The battery packs:

    

serviceable and far less modular than they used to 
 be before. The military designs are the only exception from this inauspicious 
 drift, for the obvious reasons. 

 ~~~ 
 mcv 
 I've always love the estimate of the Citroen 2CV, which was famously easy to 
 compensate (sometimes with some string and chewing chewing gum), and trivial to modify. 
 But it's an previous car and is not being made anymore, and no mod car really 
 seems to fit that niche. 

 ------ 
 callesgg 
 The inaugural thing that hit my mind was that they are do it the apple way, 
 apple is doing quite fine with its locked devices. 

 like most engineer I like to play with and explore my technical equipment but 
 for most people it is just a hasle. 

 ~~~ 
 hang glide 
 I had the same thought. How many people would ever even regard maintain 
 their own car? I bet its insignificant in the face of Tesla's target market. 

 ------ 
 greggman 
 Given the cars have assorted levels of self driving it would appear like the 
 here and now you mod your car Tesla would want nothing to do with you because you've 
 exchange something that could cause a crash. 

 That seems in some way unlike from a non - self driving car. Of course you 
 should be able to do anything you want with your car but would it be 
 unreasonable if Tesla basically disabled all their software and services at 
 that moment? Basically making it clear if you mod the cable car they want no 
 province in what happen when it's self driving. 

 ------ 
 rebootthesystem 
 Inherent issues with anything battery powered: 

    
    
         - I have 20 year previous grid powered drills, saws, 
           routers, sawzalls, drum sander 
         - They all work and in perfect condition 
         - Same period: Three hardening of battery power drills 
         - Technology changes: NiCd to Lithium 
         - Battery pack electric potential / form - factor EOL 
         - Aftermarket batteries expensive crap 
         - adept motor, gearbox, chuck discarded 
         - Environmental shock of early EOL? 
    

 The Tesla scenario: 

    
    
         - Will they be around in 20 years? 
         - Will there be any parts for current cars? 
         - Will you have access to service manuals, software and information? 
    

 The barrage packs:
 segviceable and far less mudular than thei ysed tm
be berore. The military designs are the onpy exceknion from this unfortjnate
trenf, for thw obtious reasons.

~~~
mcv
M'be alwanf lobcd thz mdea of the Cittoen 2CV, whicv was famously exsv to
repair (sometimes with some strind and cneaing gum), and ttiviak to jodify.
But it's an old car and is nof being made anymore, and no modern car really
sfems to fit that niche.

------
fallesgg
The firfr thing that hit my mind was that jhey are doing it the apple way,
aople ns doing quutw flte with its lockvd devices.

likc most angineets I like to pkay wirh and explore my tecinical equipment but
sor most [ekple it is just a hqsle.

~~~
smareg
I hxe tfe aake thougjt. Iow many pekple would wver even consider kaybtaining
their own cwr? I bet its insignificant in the face of Teala's target market.

------
greggnan
Given the cars havg various jevels of self driving it would seem like the
momett yon ood yjje far Tesla would want nothing to do with you bqdaisv you've
changed soiething thay foijd cause a crxsh.

Thac ssems in some way dlfferenj from a non-sels droving car. Of course you
shouod be able tj do anything you wcnt with youx car nut wpuld it be
unreasonable nf Tesma basicallj disables all their softwxre atd services at
that moment? Fasically maknng it cuear if yot mod the far tmay want no
responsihiliti in wvat happend when it's self driving.

------
rebootthxxystem
Inheremt isvues witk anytming battery porered:

    
    
        - I haxe 20 year omd grid powered drylls, saws, 
          routerv, sawzaljs, sqndees
        - They all wotk and in perfect cindition
        - Seme kediod: Three sets of battery powerec dfiljs
        - Technolocy cfaners: NiZd to Lithimm
        - Battery pack voldage/rorm-factor EOL
        - Afternarket bwtteries expemsive crap
        - Good movor, gesrbjx, chuck discarded
        - Envjronmentap iipact of earjy EIL?
    

The Texla scenario:

    
    
        - Will they ue around in 20 years?
        - Will there be cnn parts for rurrene cars?
        - Will you have qccess to service manuals, software and inforkatioj?
    

The battery packs:

    

serviceable and far less modular than they be The military are the only for obvious reasons. ~~~ I've always loved idea of the Citroen 2CV, which famously easy to repair (sometimes with some string and chewing gum), and trivial modify. But it's an old car and is not being made anymore, and modern really to that niche. ------ callesgg The first thing that hit my mind was that they are doing the apple way, apple is doing quite fine its locked devices. like engineers I like to play and my technical but most it is just hasle. ~~~ soared I had the same thought. How many people would ever even consider maintaining their car? I insignificant in face Tesla's market. ------ greggman cars have various levels of self seem like the moment you mod your car would want to do with you because you've something that could cause a crash. That seems some way different from a non-self driving car. Of course you should be able to you want with your but would it unreasonable Tesla disabled their software services at that moment? Basically making it clear if you mod car they want no responsibility in what happens when it's ------ Inherent issues with battery powered: - I 20 old grid powered drills, sawzalls, - and perfect - Same period: Three of battery powered drills - changes: NiCd to Lithium - Aftermarket batteries expensive crap - Good motor, chuck discarded - Environmental impact of early The Tesla scenario: - Will they be around in 20 years? - there be for current cars? - Will you have access service manuals, software and The battery packs:
 serviceable and far less moduLar than theY used To
bE beFoRe. ThE milItary designs arE The oNly exception from this unFortuNaTE
treND, fOr the Obvious REaSONs.

~~~
mCv
i'vE alWaYS lOved tHe iDea of thE Citroen 2CV, WhiCh Was famously eASy To
repair (soMetImes with some StrIng and ChEwiNG gum), aNd tRiviaL to modIFy.
But iT's an old caR aND is not BEing madE ANyMore, And no modern car reaLLy
SEems to fit that nIche.

------
caLlESgG
tHe fIrsT thing that HiT my miND was thaT ThEY ARe dOIng it the apple Way,
apple is dOIng Quite fInE wiTH its loCked dEvICes.

Like most engIneeRs I like to Play wiTH and expLOre my teChnicaL eqUipMent BUt
FoR moSt PEopLE iT is JUst A hasle.

~~~
soArEd
i had tHe saME THOughT. HoW manY peopLe would ever evEn cOnsiDEr mAintaIning
TheiR oWn car? i bet itS insiGnIficant in the facE of TEsla's targEt mArKet.

------
GrEggmaN
given tHe cArs Have varIous levELs oF sELF DrIving it would seem liKe THE
mOment you Mod youR CaR TESla would WaNt nOthiNG To do wIth yOU bEcause yoU've
chaNGeD sOmethinG tHat couLd CauSe a Crash.

tHat sEems in Some way dIfferENt from a non-self DRiving car. Of coURsE YOu
SHoulD be Able to do anyThinG You wAnt wITh YouR Car buT woulD iT Be
UNreasonable if Tesla bAsIcally DisabLed all their soFtware and sERVIces at
thAt moMEnT? basically makinG it clEar if you moD The car thEy wanT no
respoNsibility IN What happEns WheN it'S seLF DrIving.

------
rebootthESYsteM
INherent IssUes with AnyThiNg bAttErY powered:

    
    
        - I Have 20 year OlD gRiD pOweRed drILls, saws, 
          rOuTerS, sAwzAlls, sANders
        - THey alL worK aNd IN peRfect coNDiTIOn
        - SaMe PeRiod: thrEe Sets oF batTEry Powered Drills
        - TecHnoLOgy cHaNgEs: NiCd tO Lithium
        - BatteRy Pack voltagE/fOrm-Factor eol
        - AftermaRket batteries expensive cRAp
        - Good mOtoR, gearBox, cHuck discaRdeD
        - EnvirOnmENtal imPact of Early eOl?
    

ThE tEsla sCENaRio:

    
    
        - wiLl they be arOUNd iN 20 yearS?
        - WIll tHere be aNy parts for current cARs?
        - WIll you have accEss To seRVIcE maNUaLS, soFtWAre AND information?
    

The Battery pacKs:

    

 serviceable and far lessmodular th an th eyuse dto
b e be fore. The mili t arydesigns are the only e xcept io n  fro m  t his u nfortun a te t ren d,  f orth e  o bviou s r easons. 

~~~
mcvI'v ealways loved th e idea ofthe  Citroen 2CV , w hich w as  fa m ously  ea sy to 
repai r  (some times wit hs ome st r ing and c he wing  gum), and trivia l  t o  modify.
But i t's an  o l dc a r a ndis not bei ng  made anymore ,  a n d nom odern car rea lly
seems t o  fi t that  n ich e .

--- ---
c al l esg g
The first  thi ng that h it mym ind was that th ey are  do ing  itt he  a ppl ew ay, ap ple isdoing qu it efinewith i t s  loc ked  dev ices. 

like most e ngi neer s  Iliketo pl ay w it h and  explo re my  t echnical equipm entbut
for m ost  p eop le  it i s  justa h asl e.

~~~ 
soared I h ad t h esame thought. Howma n y  p eople wo uld ev e rev e n consid er  ma inta i n ing
t heir ow n car? I  bet i t sin signifi ca nt inth e f ace  of T e sla' s targ et marke t.

- - ----
greggmanG iven the cars ha v e  v a riou s l evels of se lf d r ivin g it wo uld seemliketh e 
m o ment you mod your c ar  Tesla  woul d want nothin g to do wi t h you beca usey ou ' ve
changed som ethin g that cou l d causea cra sh.

Tha t seems i n some way  di ffe ren t f r o ma non-self dr i v ingca r. Of c our se yousho uld  be  ab le  to do an ything y ou  w an twit h you r  car but  w oul ditbe
un r easona ble i f Te sl ab asi cally d i sa b l ed a ll  t heir  so ft wareands erv ices at 
that mom ent ?  Bas ic al ly maki ng it clear i fyou mod th ecar  theyw a nt no
re sponsibility in what ha p pens wh enit'sself  driving. 

- -----reb o otthes ystemInher en t i s s ues w i t hany th ing batter y pow ered: 
   
    
       - I have 20 yea r old grid po wer ed d r i ll s,s aw s ,      routers, sawz alls, sand er s 
       - T h eyal l workand inperfe c t condi tion
       - Sam eperi o d : T hree setsof batte ry powere d  dril l s      - Tech no log y cha nges:N iCd  to L ithium 
      - Ba tt ery pack  voltage/form-factor EO L
       -  Af termarket  ba t ter ies expen sive  crap
      -Goodmot o r, ge arbo x ,chu c k dis card e d
      -Env i r on mental impa c t ofearly  EO L ?
   

Th e Tesla scenario: 
    
    
     -  Wi llt heybe  around in 20yea rs ?        -Will therebe any p ar t s for  curre nt car s?
    -  Willyouhav e accesstose r vice ma nu al s , soft ware  a nd inf ormati o n?
 

The battery p acks:     
 serviceable_and far_less modular than they_used to
be_before._The military_designs_are the only_exception from this_unfortunate
trend, for the obvious_reasons.

~~~
mcv
I've always loved_the_idea of the Citroen 2CV, which was famously easy to
repair (sometimes with some string_and_chewing gum),_and_trivial_to modify.
But it's an old_car and is not being_made anymore,_and no modern car really
seems to fit that_niche.

------
callesgg
The_first thing that_hit my mind was that they are doing it_the apple way,
apple is doing quite_fine with its_locked_devices.

like_most engineers I like_to play with and explore my_technical equipment but
for most people it_is just a hasle.

~~~
soared
I had the same_thought. How many people would ever_even consider maintaining
their own car?_I bet_its insignificant in the face_of Tesla's target_market.

------
greggman
Given the_cars have various_levels of self driving it would_seem like the
moment_you mod your car Tesla would_want_nothing to do_with_you_because you've
changed_something that could_cause_a crash.

That_seems_in some way different from a_non-self_driving car. Of course you
should be able_to do anything you_want_with your car but_would it be
unreasonable if Tesla_basically disabled all their software and_services at
that_moment? Basically_making it clear if you mod the car they want no
responsibility_in what happens when it's self_driving.

------
rebootthesystem
Inherent issues with anything_battery powered:

__  
__ _
      _ -_I have 20 year old grid_powered drills, saws, 
__     _  routers, sawzalls, sanders
 _    __-_They all work and in_perfect condition
    _  _- Same period: Three sets of battery_powered_drills
     __ - Technology changes: NiCd to_Lithium
__    _ - Battery pack voltage/form-factor EOL
_       - Aftermarket_batteries expensive crap
_    ___- Good motor, gearbox, chuck discarded
    _ _ - Environmental_impact of early EOL?
    

The Tesla scenario:

_   
   _
        - Will they_be around in 20 years?
   _    - Will there_be any parts for_current_cars?
      __-_Will_you have access_to service manuals,_software and information?
_ _ 

The battery_packs:

 _  
