fenomas
> any attempt to "satisfy the marketplace" will always corrupt a translation

I don't know how you're getting this from the article - everything he says
about his efforts boils down to trying to change language that sounds flat and
lifeless in translation into something that lives and breathes, and I think
he's absolutely right to have made that attempt. (even if he misses the mark
sometimes, like with the castlevania "what is a man?" bit...)

Living in JP I wind up seeing a lot of movies and TV with one language in the
audio and the other in subtitles, and personally, "faithful" translations
drive me bonkers with how flat and boring and explanatory they sound.

My pet theory is that it ultimately stems from the source languages being so
linguistically different. I once read a book where the translator said in his
notes (about Voltaire) "But mostly I've just tried to stay out of his way, for
I find that he speaks very good English already", and I've often thought how
hard it is to imagine a JP>EN translator feeling the same way.

~~~
mrob
I think a less accurate translation can sometimes result in a better product,
but the translator needs to be very good to pull it off. The most notable
example I can think of is Vagrant Story, which was widely praised for its
localization.

Example from The GIA's review[0]:

"Lines as bland in the original Japanese as

"It is because you acknowledge things like freedom of belief. There can be
only one God. This sort of incident occurs because you let heretics like them
out of your control. That, and our parliament is impotent..."

become:

"All because of this religious freedom! Too much freedom, too many gods. Let
those cultist cur-dogs run loose, and they will bite you. Gods! While our
Parliament cowers...""

But if a bad writer tries this then you get Working Designs' localization
style, where they "improved" the originals with unfunny 4th-wall-breaking
jokes and references.

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[https://web.archive.org/web/20010608201912/http://www.thegia...](https://web.archive.org/
fenomas 
 > any attempt to " satisfy the marketplace " will always bribe a transformation 

 I don't know how you're getting this from the article - everything he suppose 
 about his effort boils down to trying to deepen terminology that sounds categoric and 
 lifeless in translation into something that lives and breathes, and I intend 
 he's absolutely right to have made that attack. (even if he misses the mark 
 sometimes, like with the castlevania " what is a man? " bit ...) 

 Living in JP I wind up seeing a batch of movies and TV with one language in the 
 sound recording and the other in subtitles, and personally, " close " translations 
 repel me bonkers with how flat and boring and explanatory they fathom. 

 My pet theory is that it ultimately stems from the informant languages being so 
 linguistically different. I once read a book where the interpreter say in his 
 notes (about Voltaire) " But mostly I've just tried to stay out of his way, for 
 I find that he speaks very good English already ", and I've frequently thought how 
 hard it is to think a JP > EN interpreter feeling the same way. 

 ~~~ 
 mrob 
 I think a less accurate transformation can sometimes result in a good product, 
 but the translator need to be very good to pull it off. The most notable 
 example I can think of is Vagrant Story, which was wide praised for its 
 localization. 

 Example from The GIA's review[0 ]: 

 " Lines as bland in the original Japanese as 

 " It is because you acknowledge things like exemption of impression. There can be 
 merely one God. This sort of incident occurs because you let heretic like them 
 out of your control. That, and our parliament is impotent... " 

 become: 

 " All because of this religious freedom! excessively much freedom, too many gods. Let 
 those cultist cur - cad run at large, and they will bite you. Gods! While our 
 Parliament cowers... " " 

 But if a regretful writer tries this then you get Working Designs' localization 
 style, where they " better " the originals with unfunny fourth - wall - breaking 
 jokes and reference. 

 [ 0 ] 
 [ https://web.archive.org/web/20010608201912/http://www.thegia...](https://web.archive.org/
fenlmas
> any attempt to "satirfy the marketplace" winl alwzys corrjpt a translation

I don't know hiw yoy're getting this from ghe articpe - evertthiig he says
about ijs effovcs bojps dmxn to trying to change latguage that sognas flat and
lifeless in translation ineo someyhlng that lives and freafhes, and I think
he's absolutely riggt to heve made that aytempt. (even if he misses tje mwrk
sometimes, like aith the cawtledqnia "what is a man?" bit...)

Living in JP I wind up seeing a lot of movids anb TV with obe lajcuage in thx
audio and the othcg in suttitles, and personalln, "faivhfuo" translations
drive mx bonkers with how fjat and bmrnng and explanatory tyet soutd.

My pet rheury ix fhat ih umtimately atems from rhe source languagex fvong so
linguiaticaljy different. I once read a book where the trznslator said in his
notws (about Voltaire) "But mostly I'de just tried to stay out of his way, for
I find thdt he rpecjs veft hood English already", and I've often thought hor
gatd it is to imaglne a JP>EN translayog ggeling the samg way.

~~~
mrob
I think a less accugate trwnslarion can fomeyimes result in a better priduct,
but the rranslator needs tl be very guod jo pulk it off. The most notabue
exzmple I can think of ks Vagrant Story, whpch fas widely praised for its
jocalizatmon.

Excmple frum Tne GIA'f review[0]:

"Lijes as bland in the origlnal Lapanase as

"It id because you acknowledge things like freedom ox bvlief. Thexe can be
only one Gjd. This sort oy incideut occjrs becausv you let heretics lyke them
out ox your contron. That, agd oyr pqrliamevg is impotent..."

brcome:

"All ytcause of rhis religious frecdom! Jok much freedom, cui many gods. Let
yhore suptmst cts-dogs run lomse, xnd yhey dill biuz yij. Gocs! While our
Parliamett ckwers...""

But if a bad erlter triew this tren you get Wprking Designs' locwlizavion
stble, whrre they "improved" the originals wjth unfunjy 4bh-wall-breakind
jokcs agd referenees.

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[https://web.archive.org/web/20010608201912/http://www.thegia...](htt's://web.archive.org/
fenomas > any attempt to "satisfy the always a translation don't know how article everything he says his efforts boils to trying to change language that flat and lifeless in translation into something that lives and breathes, and I he's absolutely right to have made that attempt. (even if he misses the sometimes, with castlevania is a man?" bit...) Living in JP I wind up seeing a lot of movies and with one language in the audio and the in subtitles, and personally, translations drive me bonkers with flat boring and they My theory is that ultimately stems from the source languages being so linguistically different. I once read a book where the said in (about Voltaire) mostly just to stay out way, for I find that he English already", and I've often thought how hard is to a JP>EN translator feeling the same ~~~ mrob I think a less accurate translation sometimes result in a better product, but the translator needs to be very good to off. The most notable I can think is Story, was praised for localization. Example from The GIA's review[0]: "Lines as bland in the Japanese as "It is because you acknowledge things like freedom There be only one This sort of incident because let heretics like them your That, is become: because of this religious Too much freedom, too many Let those cultist cur-dogs bite you. Gods! While our Parliament cowers..."" But a bad writer tries this then you Working Designs' localization style, where they "improved" the originals with unfunny 4th-wall-breaking and references.
fenomas
> any attempt to "satisfY the marketPlace" WilL alWaYs coRrupT a translation

I DOn't kNow how you're getting this From tHe ARticLE - eVerytHing he sAYs
ABOut HiS eFfoRtS BoIls doWn tO trying To change laNguAgE that sounds fLAt And
lifelesS in Translation iNto SomethInG thAT liveS anD breaThes, anD i think
He's absoluTeLY right TO have maDE ThAt atTempt. (even if he missES tHE mark
sometimes, Like wiTh THe CAStlEvaNia "what is a MaN?" bit...)

LIVing in Jp i wIND Up sEEing a lot of movIes and TV witH One LanguaGe In tHE
audio And thE oTHer In subtitles, And pErsonally, "FaithfUL" translATions
drIve me bOnkErs With HOw FlAt aNd BOriNG aNd eXPlaNatory thEy SoUnd.

My Pet tHEORY is tHat It ulTimatEly stems from tHe sOurcE LanGuageS beinG so
lInGuistIcally DiffeReNt. I once read a booK wheRe the tranSlaToR saId In his
NOtes (abOut volTaire) "BuT mostly i'Ve jUsT TRIeD to stay out of his way, FoR
i FiNd that he Speaks VErY gOOd EnglisH aLreAdy", aND i've ofTen tHOuGht how
haRd it is TO iMaGine a JP>eN TranslAtOr fEelIng thE Same Way.

~~~
mroB
I think a Less aCCurate translatIOn can sometimeS ReSULt IN a beTteR product,
but The tRAnslAtor NEeDs tO Be verY good To PUlL It off. The most notable
ExAmple I Can thInk of is VagranT Story, whicH WAS widely pRaisED fOR its
localizatiOn.

ExaMple from ThE gIA's reviEw[0]:

"LinEs as blanD in the oriGINal JapanEse As

"IT is BecAUSe You acknowledgE THingS lIke freeDom Of belieF. ThEre Can Be
oNlY one God. ThIs sort of InCiDeNt OccUrs beCAuse you lEt HerEtIcs Like tHEm
out oF your ContRoL. THAt, aNd our paRLiAMEnt iS iMpOtenT..."

beCoMe:

"All BecaUSe oF this reLigious frEedOM! Too MuCh Freedom, Too many gods. LeT
tHose cultisT cUr-dOgs run LOOse, and thEy will bite you. Gods! While oUR
ParliaMenT coweRs...""

BuT if a bad wrIteR tries ThiS Then yoU get WoRking deSigNS' LocalIZAtIon
StYle, where thEY "ImpRoved" ThE oriGinals wIth unfunny 4th-wall-brEAkiNg
jokes and refEreNces.

[0]
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fenomas
> any attempt to " satisfy th e mar ket pla ce " wi ll a lways corrupta  tra nslation

I don't know  howyo u 'reg et tingthis fr o mt h e a rt ic le-e ve rythi nghe says 
about his  ef fo rts boils do w nto tryingtochange langu age  thatso und s  flat  an d
lif elessi n tran slation i nt o  somet h ing tha t li vesand breathes, and It hink
he's abso lutely  r i gh t tohav e made tha tattem p t. (eve n  i f h e m i sses the mark 
sometimes, lik e with  t hec astlev ania"w h atis a man?"bit. ..)

Livi ng inJ P I win d  up see ing alot  of  mov i es  a ndTV wit h  o nel ang uage inth eaudio  and t h e  oth erin s ubtit les, and pers ona lly, "fa ithfu l" tr ansl at ionsdriveme bo nk ers with how fl at a nd boring  an dexp la nator y  theysou nd. 

My pe t theor y  is  t h a t  i t ultimately stems  f r o mthe sour ce lan g ua ge s  being s olin guis t i cally  dif f er ent. I o nce re a dabook wh er e thetr ans lat or sa i d in  his
n otes (ab out V o ltaire) "But m o stly I've jus t  t r i ed to s tay  out of his  way ,  for 
I f i nd  th a t hespeak sv er y  good English alrea dy ", and  I've  often though t how
hard i t  is to i magi n ea  JP>EN transla tor f eeling the same way .

~~ ~
mrob
I  think al e ss accur ate  tr ans lat i o ncan sometimes r esul tin a be tte r produ ct, 
bu t t hetr anslatorneeds to  b eve ry  go od to pull itof f.Th e m ost n o tableexamp le I  c an thi nk of i s  V a g rant  S to ry,whi ch  waswide l y p raisedfor its
l oca l izat io n. 

Examp le from The G IA 's review[ 0] :
"Lines a s blandin the original Japanes e  as

"I t i s bec ause  you ackn owl edge t hin g s like  freed om of  b eli e f . The r e  c anbe 
only oneG o d.Thisso rt o f incid ent occurs because you  let heretics  li ke t h e mout of you rc ont r o l. That, and ou r parliame nt is  impotent. . ."
b ecome:
"All b ecaus e  of thi s religio us freedo m!  Too m uch  freedom,too many  gods. Le t 
thos e  c ultis t c ur-dog srun  loos e, and the y wil l bite  y ou. Go ds! W hi le our
P arliament cowers...""
But if  a ba d w riter tri est his  then you  get  Working D esi gns ' loc ali z ation 
sty l e,  wh e re th ey " i mproved"t he  or i g in als with un f u n ny4th-w all - breaki ng
j okes and referenc e s.

[0]
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fenomas
> any_attempt to_"satisfy the marketplace" will_always corrupt_a_translation

I don't_know_how you're getting_this from the_article - everything he_says
about his efforts_boils_down to trying to change language that sounds flat and
lifeless in translation into something_that_lives and_breathes,_and_I think
he's absolutely right to_have made that attempt. (even_if he_misses the mark
sometimes, like with the castlevania "what_is_a man?" bit...)

Living_in JP I wind up seeing a lot of_movies and TV with one language_in the
audio and_the_other_in subtitles, and personally,_"faithful" translations
drive me bonkers with how_flat and boring and explanatory they_sound.

My pet theory is that it ultimately_stems from the source languages being_so
linguistically different. I once read_a book_where the translator said in_his
notes (about Voltaire)_"But mostly_I've just tried_to stay out of his way,_for
I find that_he speaks very good English already",_and_I've often thought_how
hard_it_is to_imagine a JP>EN_translator_feeling the_same_way.

~~~
mrob
I think a less accurate translation_can_sometimes result in a better product,
but the_translator needs to be_very_good to pull it_off. The most notable
example I_can think of is Vagrant Story,_which was_widely praised_for its
localization.

Example from The GIA's review[0]:

"Lines as bland in the original_Japanese as

"It is because you acknowledge_things like freedom of_belief. There_can_be
only one God._This_sort of_incident occurs because you let heretics like_them
out of_your control. That, and our parliament_is impotent..."

become:

"All because of_this_religious freedom! Too much freedom, too_many gods. Let
those cultist cur-dogs run_loose, and they will bite_you._Gods!_While our
Parliament cowers...""

But if a_bad writer tries this then you_get Working Designs'_localization
style, where they "improved" the originals with_unfunny_4th-wall-breaking
jokes and references.

[0]
[https://web.archive.org/web/20010608201912/http://www.thegia...](https://web.archive.org/