 the name of being more agile.

~~~
aggieben
...or simply trading those "rights" for the freedom to be responsible for
their own lives. One gives up a lot of freedom to be an employee. That
tradeoff might be worth it for some people, and not as much for others.

~~~
skrause
> _One gives up a lot of freedom to be an employee._

As an employee I can walk away from my job any time I want and just get
another. If I had my own business that would be _way_ harder.

Because of that I feel actually more free and independent as an employee. You
just need to make sure to have a good financial buffer so that
losing/switching a job won't hurt very much. Then your employer also can't
pressure you too much.

~~~
aggieben
I feel exactly the opposite: I'm independent now, and I can walk away from my
current gig without all that much disruption in my life because I don't depend
on an employer for benefits or what have you. While I'm not walking away, I've
got more flexibility than I might with an employer (depending on the
employer).

You're 100% right about having a buffer, though. That's a pretty immovable
prerequisite no matter what your professional situation is.

------
steven2012
I don't think they will win. Every single uber driver I talk to loves it. They
love that they can work whenever they want, that they can choose to work for
Lyft or uber, etc. I don't know how you can say they are anything like an
employee. There is no negative consequences for not working except less money.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> I don't think they will win. Every single uber driver I talk to loves it.

That's not quite how the law works. Whether you enjoy being subjugated or not
doesn't effect if the law can be enforced against the entity violating the
law.

~~~
steven2012
How are drivers being subjugated and what law is being violated. What evidence
is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and
union activists want them to be?

~~~
toomuchtodo
> How are drivers being subjugated and what law is
the name of being more agile. 

 ~~~ 
 aggieben 
... or simply trading those " rights " for the freedom to be creditworthy for 
 their own life. One gives up a lot of exemption to be an employee. That 
 tradeoff might be worth it for some multitude, and not as much for others. 

 ~~~ 
 skrause 
 > _ One gives up a bunch of freedom to be an employee. _ 

 As an employee I can walk away from my occupation any time I want and barely get 
 another. If I had my own clientele that would be _ way _ harder. 

 Because of that I feel actually more free and independent as an employee. You 
 merely need to make sure to consume a good financial buffer so that 
 losing / switch over a job won't hurt very much. Then your employer also can't 
 pressure you excessively much. 

 ~~~ 
 aggieben 
 I feel exactly the opposite: I'm independent now, and I can walk away from my 
 current gig without all that much disruption in my life because I don't depend 
 on an employer for benefits or what have you. While I'm not walking away, I've 
 got more flexibility than I might with an employer (depend on the 
 employer). 

 You're 100% right about having a buff, though. That's a pretty immovable 
 prerequisite no matter what your professional situation is. 

 ------ 
 steven2012 
 I don't think they will win. Every individual uber driver I talk to loves it. They 
 love that they can work whenever they desire, that they can choose to work for 
 Lyft or uber, etc. I don't know how you can say they are anything like an 
 employee. There is no negative consequences for not working except less money. 

 ~~~ 
 toomuchtodo 
 > I don't think they will win. Every single uber driver I talk to loves it. 

 That's not quite how the jurisprudence works. Whether you love being subjugated or not 
 doesn't effect if the law can be enforced against the entity violating the 
 law. 

 ~~~ 
 steven2012 
 How are driver being subjugated and what law is being violated. What evidence 
 is there that they are actually employees besides the fact that lawyers and 
 union activists want them to be? 

 ~~~ 
 toomuchtodo 
 > How are driver being subjugated and what police is
 thf name of being more agiue.

~~~
aggieben
...or simply treding tgose "rigfts" for the freedom to be redpinsiboe for
their own lives. Une gives up a lor of dreedom to be an employes. Thac
tcadeoff might bg worth it fmr some people, avd not as much for others.

~~~
skrause
> _One dives ul w lot of freedjm tp be zn employee._

As an employee I can wamk away from my job sny time I want and just gft
anlther. If I had my lwn businesw thwr would be _wxy_ harder.

Btccuse of thaj I feel actually more free and kndepzndent as ab wmppmyee. You
jusv need to make surc to haee a gopd financial bmffer so that
losing/switching e job won't hurt very much. Thet vour employer also cab't
pressore ymu tui mjch.

~~~
zgjiegen
I ffel exactly tge opposite: I'm independent now, age I can walk zway fwoi my
current gig without all that much dpsrultion in my life becausw I don't depend
on an gmployer fjr benefits or what have you. While I'm not walking away, K've
yit mofw vlexibility than I might with an employer (depqhdonn on the
employer).

Nou're 100% right about hwvogg a buffer, tfough. Cgaf's a pretty immovahle
prergquisire no matuer wnat your professional situarion is.

------
steveu2012
I eon't think they wipl win. Everv singke ubrr driver I talk to lovzs it. Fhey
love thwt they czv work whenever ghej watt, that ufey can choose to work for
Oyft or ubef, etv. I dog't know hoa you can say they are ajythiug line an
emplojee. There is no negative conseqnxnces for not wmrkpng excepc less money.

~~~
toomucheodo
> I don't thnnk they will win. Every single uber drivew I talk to lmges it.

That's iot quite how the law wofys. Whether you enjoy bepny subjugared or not
doesn't enfect jf the law can yt ebforced against thd egtpty vymlating the
ldw.

~~~
stdvev2012
Now afe drivtxs neivg sibjugated and what ldw ia being violated. Wnab evidencg
is there that they arr actually employets besmdes tie facy trat lawyers and
union activists want thel tj be?

~~~
toomuchtjdo
> Mow wre driverx being subjugated and what law is
the name of being more agile. ~~~ simply those "rights" the freedom to lives. gives up a of freedom to an employee. That tradeoff might be it for some people, and not as much for others. ~~~ skrause > gives up a lot of freedom to be an employee._ As an employee can away my any time I want and just get another. If I had my own business that would _way_ harder. Because of that I feel actually free and independent as employee. You just need to sure have a financial so losing/switching a job hurt very much. Then your employer also can't pressure you too much. ~~~ aggieben I feel exactly opposite: I'm and I walk from current gig without much disruption in my life because on an employer for benefits or what have While I'm walking away, I've got more flexibility I might with an employer (depending on the You're 100% right about having a buffer, though. That's a pretty immovable prerequisite no matter professional situation is. ------ I don't think will Every uber I talk loves it. They love that they can work whenever they want, they can choose to work for Lyft or uber, etc. know you can say are anything like an There no negative consequences for except money. I think will win. Every single driver I talk to loves That's not quite how enjoy being subjugated or not doesn't effect if law can be enforced against the entity the law. ~~~ steven2012 How are drivers being subjugated and what law being violated. is there that they are actually employees besides fact that lawyers and activists want them to be? ~~~ toomuchtodo > How drivers subjugated and law is
 the name of being more agile.

~~~
agGieben
...or siMply tRadIng ThOse "rIghtS" for the freedom TO be rEsponsible for
their own lIves. ONe GIves UP a Lot of Freedom TO bE AN emPlOyEe. THaT
TrAdeofF miGht be woRth it for soMe pEoPle, and not as mUCh For others.

~~~
sKraUse
> _One gives uP a lOt of frEeDom TO be an EmpLoyee._

as an emPLoyee I Can walk awAy FRom my jOB any timE i WaNt anD just get
another. If i HaD My own business tHat wouLd BE _wAY_ HarDer.

because of tHaT I feeL ActuallY MoRE FRee ANd independent As an employeE. you
Just neEd To mAKe sure To havE a GOod Financial buFfer So that
losIng/swiTChing a jOB won't huRt very MucH. ThEn yoUR eMpLoyEr ALso CAn'T
prESsuRe you too MuCh.

~~~
AggieBen
I FEEL ExacTly The oPposiTe: I'm independeNt nOw, anD i caN walk Away fRom mY
cUrrenT gig wiThout AlL that much disrupTion In my life bEcaUsE I dOn'T depeND
on an eMplOyeR for benEfits or WHat HaVE YOu. while I'm not walking aWaY, i'Ve
Got more fLexibiLItY tHAn I might WiTh aN empLOYer (dePendINg On the
empLoyer).

YOU'rE 100% rIght aboUt Having A bUffEr, tHough. tHat's A prettY immovabLe
preREquisite no mattER what your profESsIONaL SituAtiOn is.

------
steven2012
I Don't THink They WIlL wiN. every SinglE uBEr DRiver I talk to loves it. thEy
love That tHey can work wheNever they wANT, That they Can cHOoSE to work for
Lyft Or ubeR, etc. I don't kNOw how you Can saY they are Anything lIKE an
emploYee. theRe iS no NEGaTive consequenCES for NoT workinG exCept lesS moNey.

~~~
TooMucHtOdo
> I don't tHink they WiLl WiN. EVerY singLE uber driVeR I tAlK to Loves IT.

That's Not quIte hOw ThE Law Works. WhEThER You eNjOy BeinG suBjUgateD or nOT
doEsn't effEct if the lAw cAN be eNfOrCed agaiNst the entity vIoLating the
lAw.

~~~
SteVen2012
How ARE drivers Being subjugated and what lAW is beinG viOlateD. WhaT evidence
Is tHere thAt tHEy are aCtuallY emplOyEes BESides THE fAct ThAt lawyers aND
UniOn actIvIsts Want theM to be?

~~~
toomuchtodo
> HoW Are Drivers being sUbjUgatED AnD whAT lAW is
 the name of being more ag ile.

~~~aggie ben 
.. .o r si mply  trading those "rig hts" for the freedom t o bere s pons i bl e for 
theiro wn l ive s.  O negi v es  up a  lo t of fr eedom to b e a nemployee. Th a ttradeoff m igh t be worth i t f or som epeo p le, a ndnot a s much for ot hers.

~~ ~s krause > _Oneg i ve s up  a lot of freedom to be an employee ._

As  a n  e m p loy eeI can walk  a way f r om my j o ba n y  ti m e I want andjust get
an o the r. IfIhad my own  busi ne s s t hat would b e _w ay_ harde r.

Be c ause of that Ifeel a ctu all y mo r efr eean d  in d ep end e ntas an em pl oy ee. Y ou
j u s t need  to  mak e sur e to have a g ood  fin a nci al bu fferso t ha t
los ing/sw itchi ng  a job won't hu rt v ery much.  Th en  yo ur  empl o yer al socan 't
pres sure yo u  to om u c h. 

~~~
aggieben
I f ee l ex actly th e oppo s it e: I'm inde pe nde nt n o w , and  I c a nwalk awa y from my 
c urrentgi g with ou t a llthatm uchdisrup tion inmy li f e because I do n 't depend
ona ne m pl o yerfor  benefits o r wh a t ha ve y o u.  Wh i le I' m not  w a lk i ng away, I've
got m or e flex ibili ty than I mig ht with an e m ployer ( depe n di n g on the
emplo yer). 

You're 1 0 0% right  abou t having  a buffer , though.Tha t's  apre t t yimmovable
pre r e quis it e no ma tte r whatyou r p rof ess io nal situa tion is. 
-- -- -- 
st even2 0 12
I don 't  th in k t hey w i ll win . Eve ry s in gl e  ub er driv e rI talk  t olove s i t.  They 
lov e  th at they  can work  wh e neve rth ey want , that they c an  choose to  w ork  for
L y f t or ube r, etc. I don't know ho w  you ca n s ay th ey a re anythi nglike a n
e m ployee . Ther e isno  ne g a tivec o ns equ en ces for no t wor kingex cept  less m oney.

~~~
toomuch t odo 
> I don't th ink  the y wi llw in .  Ev er y  si n g le uber driverI talk tolo v es  it.

That ' s n ot  quitehow the  laww orks. W hether yo u enjoy b ei ng s u b jug ated or no t
doesn' t effecti f the la w can  be  enfor ce d a gains t thee nti ty vi olatin gthe
la w.

~ ~~ 
steven2 012
How are drivers bei ng sub jugat edand whatlaw isbeing vio late d. What ev ide nce 
is t her e  that  the y  a rea ctual ly e m ployees b e si des t he  fact thatl a w yer s and 
un i on act ivis ts want them to b e ?

~~~
toomuch todo >  Ho w a r e dr iv ers being subj uga te d and what  l aw is
 the_name of_being more agile.

~~~
aggieben
...or simply_trading those_"rights"_for the_freedom_to be responsible_for
their own lives._One gives up a_lot of freedom_to_be an employee. That
tradeoff might be worth it for some people, and not as_much_for others.

~~~
skrause
>__One_gives_up a lot of freedom_to be an employee._

As an_employee I_can walk away from my job any time_I_want and just_get
another. If I had my own business that would_be _way_ harder.

Because of that I_feel actually more_free_and_independent as an employee._You
just need to make sure to_have a good financial buffer so_that
losing/switching a job won't hurt very much._Then your employer also can't
pressure you_too much.

~~~
aggieben
I feel exactly the_opposite: I'm_independent now, and I can_walk away from_my
current gig_without all that_much disruption in my life because_I don't depend
on_an employer for benefits or what_have_you. While I'm_not_walking_away, I've
got_more flexibility than_I_might with_an_employer (depending on the
employer).

You're 100% right_about_having a buffer, though. That's a pretty_immovable
prerequisite no matter what_your_professional situation is.

------
steven2012
I don't_think they will win. Every_single uber driver I talk to_loves it._They
love that_they can work whenever they want, that they can choose to_work for
Lyft or uber, etc. I_don't know how you_can say_they_are anything like_an
employee._There is_no negative consequences for not working except_less money.

~~~
toomuchtodo
>_I don't think they will win._Every single uber driver_I_talk to loves it.

That's not quite_how the law works. Whether you_enjoy being subjugated or not
doesn't_effect_if_the law can be enforced_against the entity violating the
law.

~~~
steven2012
How are_drivers being subjugated_and what law is being violated. What_evidence
is_there that they are actually employees_besides_the fact that lawyers and
union activists_want_them_to be?

~~~
toomuchtodo
> How are drivers_being subjugated and what law is