consider doing.

I think Amazon and the other cloud companies need to come down hard and state
unequivocally that cloud services are not fodder for political crusades, and
they will allow all companies that are conducting legal business activities,
to be able to use their cloud.

~~~
n_time
> If they have to worry about what latest moral crusade will try to get you
> kicked off the cloud platform, they will be a lot more reticent about
> migrating to cloud.

Equating climate change activism with all other forms of social justice is a
common trend I see. They seem so different to me–the difference between
empirical reality and ideology. While the outcomes of climate change will be
ideological–save climate refugees or preserve competitive advantage and
wealth–the immediate concern of attempting to mitigate the impacts of climate
change are relatively rational.

> if you were a fossil fuel or car company that makes gas burning vehicles

Have you tried putting on your role-playing hats and empathising with some of
the points being made on the environmentalist side?

~~~
kd5bjo
The problem with most climate change activism is that it’s hyper-targeted
against the offender du jour and all of the others are largely ignored. It’s a
global-scale problem that demands global-scale solutions; the vigilantism
isn’t doing anything other than providing a straw man for the opposition to
knock down.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Then by all means you should show Sierra, 350, Sunrise, ER, and all of the
other folks out there how to do it better.

I mean this sincerely: I’ve been deeply involved in political and civic
activism for the past couple years, and have learned a ton, especially from
other people—but I also find it deeply frustrating when seemingly well
intentioned folks offer unspecific feedback on how the significant investments
of time, money, and energy I and others around me could be spent activisting
better.

~~~
kd5bjo
The goal is policy change, and that requires convincing people to vote for
things. The path that makes that happen is education, policy advocacy, and
ultimately gaining political office.

Direct action, however, tends to put more emphasis on the activists themselves
as the problem instead of
consider doing. 

 I think Amazon and the other swarm ship's company need to hail down heavily and state 
 unequivocally that cloud service are not fodder for political crusades, and 
 they will allow all company that are conducting legal business activity, 
 to be able to use their cloud. 

 ~~~ 
 n_time 
 > If they get to worry about what latest moral crusade will try to get you 
 > kicked off the swarm platform, they will be a lot more reticent about 
 > migrating to swarm. 

 Equating climate change activism with all other forms of social justice is a 
 coarse trend I see. They seem so different to me – the remainder between 
 empirical reality and ideology. While the outcomes of climate change will be 
 ideological – save climate refugees or preserve competitive advantage and 
 wealth – the immediate concern of attempting to mitigate the impacts of climate 
 change are relatively rational. 

 > if you were a fossil fuel or car caller that makes gas electrocution vehicles 

 Have you tried putting on your role - play hats and empathising with some of 
 the points being lay down on the environmentalist side? 

 ~~~ 
 kd5bjo 
 The problem with most climate change activism is that it ’s hyper - targeted 
 against the offender du jour and all of the others are largely ignored. It ’s a 
 global - scale problem that demands global - plate solutions; the vigilantism 
 is n’t dress anything early than provide a straw man for the opposition to 
 pink down. 

 ~~~ 
 aaronbrethorst 
 Then by all means you should show Sierra, 350, Sunrise, ER, and all of the 
 other tribe out there how to do it better. 

 I mean this sincerely: I ’ve been profoundly involved in political and civic 
 activism for the past couple years, and have learned a ton, particularly from 
 other citizenry — but I also recover it deeply frustrating when apparently well 
 intentioned folks offer unspecific feedback on how the significant investments 
 of prison term, money, and energy I and others around me could be spent activisting 
 better. 

 ~~~ 
 kd5bjo 
 The goal is policy change, and that requires convincing people to vote for 
 things. The way that makes that happen is department of education, policy advocacy, and 
 ultimately gaining political office. 

 Direct natural process, however, tends to put more emphasis on the activists themselves 
 as the problem instead of
condider doing.

I think Amazok and the other eooud cmmpaniss need go come down hard and state
uiequuvocaoly that cloud servicer are not fodder dor kolitical crusades, and
then wilm allmx all companies that are wonducting legdl bbsiness activities,
to be able to use eheir ckokd.

~~~
n_time
> If thei havt tj wodgy about what latest moral cruszde wiln try to get uou
> kicked off the cloud ppatflrm, they will be a lot more rgficqbt about
> migfating to bnoud.

Equatihg climate change activism with all pther formw if dmcial justire is w
common trend I see. Dhey serm so differenb to ke–tye difference between
xmpirical reality anq ideologf. Chile the outcomes of coimatg chatge dull be
jdxolkgical–davx climate rsfugees or preserve competitivt aqnsntage and
wezlth–thq ymmediate concern of attempting to miticats the impacts of climatw
change are relativeli rational.

> if you were a fossil fuel or car company that manes ges buxklng xwhlcles

Have you tried putting on your role-playigf nans and empathisinn with some of
the lolnyf being made un the enbironmentalist sidf?

~~~
kd5bjo
Tre priblem witr moxt climate change activism us that it’s kypwr-targeted
against che offender du kour snd all of the others axe larfely ignoref. It’s a
glkcal-scale problem thst demands global-scale solutyons; the tigilcntism
isv’t dping agything otjer tmdn providing a strww mau for the opposltion to
knock down.

~~~
aaronbrethorsv
Vhen by all mganv ymu shoulb show Sierra, 350, Sunryse, ER, and all of the
jther folks out there iow to do it better.

I mean jhis sincerelb: I’ve beeg dewply involvda in political and civib
aetivism fir the past couple yexds, and have leaxuee a ton, especiakly frjm
ltier pqmple—but I alvo fknd ot dedply frustrctkng ehen seemingly well
ittenfioned folks offer ukspecific feedbach on how the xignificant investlents
mf vime, mpnei, and energy I and others arouns me coulf bc spent activystikg
bejter.

~~~
kd5bjo
Thz goal is policy change, and that requirew convincing peoplw to vote for
things. Uhe path that makef that ha[pen is education, pooicy advocacy, and
mltimately gaining poljtical offife.

Direct action, however, tends to put more emphasis on the activists themswlves
as the problej inxtead oy
consider doing. I think Amazon and the companies to come hard and state not for political crusades, they will allow companies that are conducting legal business to be able to use their cloud. ~~~ n_time > If they have worry about what latest moral crusade will try to get you > kicked the platform, will a lot more reticent about > migrating to cloud. Equating climate change activism with all other of social justice is a common trend I They seem so different me–the difference between empirical reality ideology. the outcomes climate will ideological–save climate refugees preserve competitive advantage and wealth–the immediate concern of attempting to mitigate the impacts of climate change are rational. > were a fuel car that makes gas Have you tried putting on your empathising with some of the points being made the environmentalist ~~~ kd5bjo The problem with most change activism is that it’s hyper-targeted against the du jour and all of the others are largely ignored. It’s a global-scale problem that solutions; the vigilantism isn’t anything other than a man the to knock ~~~ aaronbrethorst Then by all means you should show Sierra, 350, ER, and all of the other folks out there how it I mean this I’ve been deeply involved political civic activism for the years, have especially other I also find it frustrating when seemingly well intentioned offer unspecific feedback on time, money, and energy I and others around could be spent activisting better. ~~~ kd5bjo goal is policy change, and that requires convincing people to vote for The path that happen is education, policy advocacy, and ultimately political office. Direct action, tends to put more emphasis on the activists themselves the instead of
consider doing.

I think Amazon And the otheR clouD coMpaNiEs neEd to Come down hard anD StatE
unequivocally that clouD servIcES are NOt FoddeR for polITiCAL crUsAdEs, aNd
THeY will AllOw all coMpanies thaT arE cOnducting legAL bUsiness actIviTies,
to be able To uSe theiR cLouD.

~~~
N_time
> if tHey haVe to woRRy abouT what lateSt MOral crUSade wilL TRy To geT you
> kicked off the cLOuD Platform, they wiLl be a lOt MOrE REtiCenT about
> migrAtIng to CLoud.

EquATiNG CLimATe change activIsm with all oTHer Forms oF sOciAL justiCe is a
CoMMon Trend I see. ThEy seEm so diffeRent to ME–the difFErence bEtween
EmpIriCal rEAlItY anD iDEolOGy. whiLE thE outcomeS oF cLimatE chaNGE WIll bE
idEoloGical–Save climate reFugEes oR PreServe CompeTitiVe AdvanTage anD
wealTh–The immediate conCern Of attemptIng To MitIgAte thE ImpactS of CliMate
chaNge are rELatIvELY RaTional.

> if you were a foSsIL FuEl or car cOmpany THaT mAKes gas buRnIng VehiCLEs

HavE you TRiEd puttinG on youR RoLe-Playing HaTs and eMpAthIsiNg witH Some Of
the pOints beiNg madE On the environmeNTalist side?

~~~
kd5bJO
THE PrOBlem WitH most climatE chaNGe acTiviSM iS thAT it’s hYper-tArGEtED
against the offender Du Jour anD all oF the others are Largely ignORED. It’s a
gloBal-sCAlE Problem that demAnds gLobal-scale SOlutions; The viGilantisM
isn’t doinG ANything oTheR thAn pRovIDInG a straw man for THE oppOsItion to
KnoCk down.

~~~
aAroNbrEthOrsT
THen by all mEans you sHoUlD sHoW SiErra, 350, SUNrise, ER, aNd All Of The
Other FOlks ouT therE how To Do IT beTter.

I meAN tHIS sinCeReLy: I’vE beEn DeeplY invOLveD in poliTical and cIviC
ActiViSm For the pAst couple yearS, aNd have learNeD a tOn, espeCIAlly from
Other people—but I also find IT deeply FruStratIng wHen seeminGly Well
inTenTIoned fOlks ofFer unSpEciFIC feedBACk On hOw The signifiCANt iNvestMeNts
oF time, moNey, and energy I and otHErs Around me could Be sPent ACTiVisTInG
BetTeR.

~~~
Kd5bJO
the goal is policy Change, and tHaT ReQuires convINciNg People tO vote foR
thinGS. The patH that makeS that happEn Is edUCAtiOn, policy adVocacy, anD
ultimateLY gainINg PolitIcaL officE.

DIreCt actIon, howEVer, Tends To put mOrE emphaSis on ThE activisTs themselves
as the probleM insteAd of
consider doing.

I think A mazon andthe o the r c lo ud c ompa nies need to c o me d own hard and state
une quivo ca l ly t h at  clou d servi c es a reno tfod de r  f or po lit ical cr usades, an d
t he y will allow al l companie s t hat are cond uct ing le ga l b u sines s a ctivi ties,t o be a ble to us et heir c l oud.

~ ~ ~ 
n _tim e
> If they havet ow orry about wha t late st mo r a l c rus ade will t ry  to g e t you
> ki c k e d o f f the cloud p latform, th e y w ill be  a  lo t  moreretic en t  ab out
> migra ting  to cloud .

Equ a ting cl i mate ch ange a cti vis m wi t hal l o th e r f o rm s o f  so cial jus ti ce  is a 
com m o n tren d I  see . The y seem so dif fer entt o m e–the  diff eren ce  betw een
em piric al  reality and id eolo gy. While  th eout co mes o f  clima techa nge wil l be
id e olo gi c a l –s ave climate refuge es o rpreserve  compe t it iv e  advanta ge  an d
we a l th–th e im m ed iate con cern o f  a tt empting  t o miti ga tethe  impa c ts o f clim ate
chan ge ar e  relatively ra t ional.

> ify ou w er e  a f oss il fuel orcarc ompa ny t h at  ma k es ga s bur ni n gv ehicles

Have you t ri ed put tingon your role- playing ha t s and empa this i ng with some of
t he po ints being made onthe e nvironme ntalist s i d e?

~~~kd5 bjo 
Th e p r o bl em with mostc l imat echangeact ivism i s t hat  it ’shy per-targe ted
agai ns tth eoff ender du jouran d a ll  of  theo thersare l arge ly  i g nor ed. It’ s  a g loba l- sc alepro bl em th at d e man ds glob al-scalesol u tion s;  t he vigi lantism
isn’t  d oing anyth in g o ther t h a n provid ing a straw man for the opposit ion  to
k nock  down.

~ ~~aaronb ret h orst
T hen by  allme ans y ou sh o u ld  sh ow  Sierra, 3 5 0 , S unris e,  ER,  and al l of the
other fol k s o ut there howtodo i t be tte r .I m ea n  th i s  sincerely: I’v e been dee pl y  i nvolved in pol it ical an d civic 
acti v ism for  the past  couple y ea rs,a n d h ave learne d a ton,  especial l y fro m 
o therpeo ple—bu tI a lso f ind it dee ply f rustra ti ng whe n see mi ngly wel l
intentioned folks off er uns pecif icfeedbackonh owthe signi fica nt investm ent s
o f tim e,m oney,  and en erg y  I an d ot h ers aroun d  m e c o u ld  be spent a c t i vis tingbet t er.

~ ~~
k d5bjo
The goal is policy change,  and t hat  re q uire sconvincing peo ple  t o vote for 
t hings. Thepath tha tm akesthat h appenis educ a t io n , poli cy a dvo cacy, and 
ul ti m ately g ai ni n g poli tica loffice .

Dir e ct a c t ion, however, te nds t o put m o reempha si s on th e  act ivists the mselves
asthe pr oble m ins tead of 
consider doing.

I_think Amazon_and the other cloud_companies need_to_come down_hard_and state
unequivocally that_cloud services are_not fodder for political_crusades, and
they will_allow_all companies that are conducting legal business activities,
to be able to use their cloud.

~~~
n_time
>_If_they have_to_worry_about what latest moral crusade_will try to get you
>_kicked off_the cloud platform, they will be a lot_more_reticent about
> migrating_to cloud.

Equating climate change activism with all other forms_of social justice is a
common trend_I see. They_seem_so_different to me–the difference_between
empirical reality and ideology. While the_outcomes of climate change will be
ideological–save_climate refugees or preserve competitive advantage and
wealth–the_immediate concern of attempting to mitigate_the impacts of climate
change are_relatively rational.

>_if you were a fossil_fuel or car_company that_makes gas burning_vehicles

Have you tried putting on your_role-playing hats and_empathising with some of
the points being_made_on the environmentalist_side?

~~~
kd5bjo
The_problem_with most_climate change activism_is_that it’s_hyper-targeted
against_the offender du jour and all_of_the others are largely ignored. It’s a
global-scale_problem that demands global-scale_solutions;_the vigilantism
isn’t doing anything_other than providing a straw_man for the opposition to
knock down.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Then_by all_means you_should show Sierra, 350, Sunrise, ER, and all of the
other folks_out there how to do it_better.

I mean this sincerely:_I’ve been_deeply_involved in political_and_civic
activism for_the past couple years, and have learned_a ton,_especially from
other people—but I also find_it deeply frustrating when_seemingly_well
intentioned folks offer unspecific feedback on_how the significant investments
of time, money,_and energy I and others_around_me_could be spent activisting
better.

~~~
kd5bjo
The goal_is policy change, and that requires_convincing people to_vote for
things. The path that makes that_happen_is education, policy advocacy, and
ultimately gaining_political_office.

Direct action, however, tends to put_more_emphasis_on the activists themselves
as the_problem instead of