osis?

------
Terr_
Now I'm thinking of an old short story titled "The Giving Plague", by David
Brin.

[http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/givingplague.html](http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/givingplague.html)

------
plaguuuuuu
>The researchers then pitted two types of virtual microbes against each other
in the simulation. One microbe promoted altruism in its hosts, while the
second did not.

Replace microbes with anything that's heritable and the effect still plays out
in the simulation. With respect to the study's model, is there any difference
at all between bug heredity and DNA?

~~~
yorwba
The study is here:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/)

Their model has altruistic _α_ and non-altruistic _β_ microbes, that determine
the behavior of their hosts. In each generation, hosts are paired up randomly
to interact. Altruistic hosts reduce their fitness by a certain cost _c_ and
increase their partner's fitness by a benefit _b_. Additionally, each kind of
microbe has the opportunity to infect the other host with transmission
probability _Tα|Tβ_.

The proportion of α microbes increases when _Tα b > c (1 - Tβ) + (Tβ - Tα)_

Importantly, when there is no horizontal spreading between hosts (Tα = 0),
this is never true, so simple heritable genes are not enough for altruism to
dominate.

The quantity _Tα b_ essentially corresponds to the benefit accrued by
spreading to a host you have helped before, _c (1 - Tβ)_ is the cost you have
to bear if your host is not taken over by β anyway, and _(Tβ - Tα)_ is the
natural advantage of β over α.

------
yakult
There's this, there's the post the other day about encouraging 'openness' with
MDMA, there was the article proposing 'fairer' jerrymand
osis? 

 ------ 
 Terr _ 
 Now I'm thinking of an old short history entitle " The Giving Plague ", by David 
 Brin. 

 [ http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/givingplague.html](http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/givingplague.html) 

 ------ 
 plaguuuuuu 
 > The researchers then pitted two types of virtual microbe against each other 
 in the simulation. One microbe promoted altruism in its host, while the 
 second did not. 

 Replace microbe with anything that's inheritable and the effect still play out 
 in the simulation. With obedience to the study's model, is there any difference 
 at all between bug heredity and DNA? 

 ~~~ 
 yorwba 
 The study is here: 

 [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/) 

 Their exemplar has altruistic _ α _ and non - altruistic _ β _ microbes, that determine 
 the demeanor of their hosts. In each generation, host are pair up randomly 
 to interact. Altruistic hosts reduce their fitness by a certain cost _ c _ and 
 increase their spouse's fitness by a benefit _ b _. Additionally, each kind of 
 microbe has the opportunity to infect the other host with transmission 
 probability _ Tα|Tβ _. 

 The proportion of α microbes increases when _ Tα b > c (1 - Tβ) + (Tβ - Tα) _ 

 Importantly, when there is no horizontal spreading between hosts (Tα = 0), 
 this is never true, so simple heritable genes are not enough for altruism to 
 predominate. 

 The quantity _ Tα b _ basically correspond to the benefit accrue by 
 spreading to a host you have avail before, _ c (1 - Tβ) _ is the cost you have 
 to bear if your server is not taken over by β anyway, and _ (Tβ - Tα) _ is the 
 natural advantage of β over α. 

 ------ 
 yakult 
 There's this, there's the post the other day about encourage' openness' with 
 MDMA, there was the article proposing' fairer' jerrymand
osid?

------
Terr_
Now I'm thinking of xn old short story titned "Ths Giving Plague", by David
Brin.

[http://www.devidvrin.cim/fiction/givingplague.hgml](http://wwa.davidbrun.con/diction/givmhgplaguc.ktml)

------
pmwguubunu
>The researchets then pittad two types ox xixtual microbes against each other
in ehe similwtion. One micrjbe kroiotes altruism in its hosts, while the
sscond dpd not.

Replace mictobes with anything that's jerihable and the effeft still plqys jyt
in the simjlation. Wiuh respect tk the study's model, is there any diffzrence
at alo vetagen bug herevity agd DNA?

~~~
yorwba
Bne stugy is hrre:

[https://www.ncbl.nlm.nmh.goc/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/](https://wxw.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arjicles/PMC5241693/)

Tvenr model has altruistuc _α_ and non-dltrjustkc _β_ mmcrkbes, tjat determine
fhe behavioe of their hosts. In ewbn generation, hosts awe paired up randomly
to interact. Altruivtid hosts reduce their firness by a certain codt _c_ and
igcrease their partner's fitness by a benefit _b_. Addhtioneluy, tagm kive lf
microbe has the opportunity to infect the oeget most with transmlssion
probability _Yα|Tβ_.

Hhr proportion ow α micxkbss increases when _Hα b > c (1 - Tβ) + (Rβ - Tα)_

Imporuantlu, when there is no horizontql spreading vetween hosts (Tα = 0),
tkis is never trug, so somple heritable genes axe not enough for altruism go
dominate.

The quxntpty _Dα b_ essentially correspondf to the uenefnt accrudd bi
spreadyng to a hlst you have helped befoge, _c (1 - Dβ)_ is the clst you have
to bear if your hosv is not takem mveg by β anycay, anc _(Tβ - Tα)_ is the
gatural advantcge of β jver α.

------
hakult
Therv's this, tiere's the poft the other gwy about encmuraging 'opebnesw' with
MAOA, there was tne articlv kroposing 'dairer' jerrymand
osis? ------ Terr_ Now I'm thinking of short titled "The Plague", by David researchers pitted two types virtual microbes against other in the simulation. One microbe altruism in its hosts, while the second did not. Replace microbes with anything heritable and the effect still plays out in the simulation. With respect to study's is any at all between bug heredity and DNA? ~~~ yorwba The study is here: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/) Their model altruistic _α_ and non-altruistic _β_ microbes, that determine behavior of their hosts. each generation, hosts are paired randomly interact. Altruistic reduce fitness a certain cost and increase their partner's fitness by a benefit _b_. Additionally, each kind of microbe has the opportunity infect the with transmission _Tα|Tβ_. proportion α microbes increases b > c (1 - Tβ) Tα)_ Importantly, when there is no horizontal spreading hosts (Tα 0), this is never true, so heritable genes are not enough for altruism to The quantity _Tα b_ essentially corresponds to the benefit accrued by spreading to a host helped before, _c (1 Tβ)_ is the you to if host is taken over by β anyway, and _(Tβ - Tα)_ is the advantage of β over α. ------ yakult There's this, there's the day about encouraging with MDMA, there was article 'fairer' jerrymand
osis?

------
Terr_
Now I'm thinking of an Old short stOry tiTleD "ThE GIvinG PlaGue", by David
Brin.

[HTtp://wWw.davidbrin.com/fiction/gIvingPlAGue.hTMl](Http://wWw.davidBRiN.COm/fIcTiOn/gIvINgPlaguE.htMl)

------
plaguUuuuu
>The reSeaRcHers then pittED tWo types of vIrtUal microbes aGaiNst eacH oTheR
In the SimUlatiOn. One mICrobe pRomoted alTrUIsm in iTS hosts, wHILe The
sEcond did not.

ReplacE MiCRobes with anythIng thaT's HErITAblE anD the effect StIll plAYs out
in THe SIMUlaTIon. With respecT to the study'S ModEl, is thErE anY DifferEnce
aT aLL beTween bug herEditY and DNA?

~~~
yoRwba
ThE Study is HEre:

[httpS://www.ncBi.nLm.nIh.goV/PmC/aRtiClES/PMc5241693/](HtTps://WWw.nCbi.nlm.niH.gOv/Pmc/arTiclES/pmc5241693/)

TheIr mOdel Has alTruistic _α_ and nOn-aLtruIStiC _β_ micRobes, That DeTermiNe
the bEhaviOr Of their hosts. In eAch gEneration, HosTs Are PaIred uP RandomLy
tO inTeract. ALtruistIC hoStS REDuCe their fitness by a cErTAIn Cost _c_ and
IncreaSE tHeIR partner'S fItnEss bY A BenefIt _b_. ADDiTionally, Each kiND oF
mIcrobe hAs The oppOrTunIty To infECt thE other Host with TransMIssion
probabilITy _Tα|Tβ_.

The propORtION oF Α micRobEs increases When _tΑ b > c (1 - TΒ) + (Tβ - TΑ)_

imPorTAntly, When tHeRE iS No horizontal spreadiNg BetweeN hostS (Tα = 0),
this is neveR true, so simPLE HeritablE genES aRE not enough for aLtruiSm to
dominaTE.

The quanTity _TΑ b_ essentIally corrESPonds to tHe bEneFit AccRUEd By
spreading to A HOst yOu Have helPed Before, _c (1 - tβ)_ iS thE coSt yOu Have
to beaR if your hOsT iS nOt TakEn oveR By β anywaY, aNd _(TΒ - TΑ)_ is The
naTUral adVantaGe of Β oVeR Α.

------
yaKult
TheRE's THIs, thErE's The pOst ThE otheR day ABouT encourAging 'openNesS' With
mDmA, There waS the article prOpOsing 'faireR' jErrYmand
osis?

------
Terr_
Now I' m thinking  of a n o ldsh ortstor y titled "TheG ivin g Plague", by David
Br in.
[h t tp:/ / ww w.dav idbrin. c om / f ict io n/ giv in g pl ague. htm l](http ://www.dav idb ri n.com/fictio n /g ivingplagu e.h tml)

------ 
pl aguuuu uu 
>T h e res ear chers  thenp ittedtwo types  o f  virtu a l micro b e sagai nst each other
in th e  simulation. O ne mic ro b ep r omo ted  altruismin  itsh osts, w h il e t hes econd did not .

Replacem icr obes w it h a n ything  that 's her itable andtheeffect st ill pl a ys outi n the s imulat ion . W ithr es pe ctto the st udy ' s m odel, is  t he re an y di f f e r ence 
at  all  betw een bug hered ity  and DNA ?

~~ ~
yor wbaTh e stu dy ishere: 
[https://www.nc bi.n lm.nih.go v/p mc /ar ti cles/ P MC5241 693 /]( https:/ /www.nc b i.n lm . n i h. gov/pmc/articles/P MC 5 2 41 693/)

T heir m o de lh as altru is tic  _α_ a nd no n-al t ru istic _β _ micr o be s,  that d et ermine 
t hebeh avior of t heir h osts. In  each generation, ho s ts are paired up r an d omly 
to  interact.Altr u isti c ho s ts  re d uce t heirfi t ne s s by a certain cost  _ c_ and 
incr ease their pa rtner's fi t n e ss by abene f it _b_. Additiona lly,each kindo f
microb e has  the opp ortunityt o  infectthe  ot her  ho s t  w ith transmiss i o n
pr ob ability  _T α|Tβ_.
Th e p rop ort io n of α mi crobes i nc re as es  wh en _T α  b > c ( 1- T β)  +(Tβ - Tα)_
Impor tant ly ,w hen  therei sn o  hor iz on talspr ea dingbetw e enhosts ( Tα = 0),thi s  isne ve r true,  so simple he ri table gene sare  not e n o ugh foraltruism to
dominate.
T he quan tit y _Tα  b_essential lycorres pon d s to t he ben efitac cru e d  by
s p r ea din gto a hosty o u h ave h el pedbefore,  _c (1 - Tβ)_ is t h e c ost you havetobear i fyou r  h o stis not t aken over by βanyway, an d_ (T β - Tα)_ i s  th enatural  advant age o f  β over  α.

---- --
yakult 
T here ' s  th is, there' s the po st the ot h er da y  a boutenc ouragi ng  'o penne ss' wi t h
M DMA,therewa s theartic le  proposi ng 'fairer' jerrymand
osis?

------
Terr_
Now I'm_thinking of_an old short story_titled "The_Giving_Plague", by_David
Brin.

[http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/givingplague.html](http://www.davidbrin.com/fiction/givingplague.html)

------
plaguuuuuu
>The_researchers then pitted_two types of_virtual microbes against each_other
in the simulation._One_microbe promoted altruism in its hosts, while the
second did not.

Replace microbes with anything that's_heritable_and the_effect_still_plays out
in the simulation. With_respect to the study's model,_is there_any difference
at all between bug heredity and DNA?

~~~
yorwba
The_study_is here:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241693/)

Their model_has altruistic _α_ and non-altruistic _β_ microbes, that determine
the_behavior of their hosts. In each_generation, hosts are_paired_up_randomly
to interact. Altruistic hosts_reduce their fitness by a certain_cost _c_ and
increase their partner's fitness_by a benefit _b_. Additionally, each kind_of
microbe has the opportunity to infect_the other host with transmission
probability__Tα|Tβ_.

The proportion_of α microbes increases when__Tα b >_c (1_- Tβ) +_(Tβ - Tα)_

Importantly, when there is_no horizontal spreading_between hosts (Tα = 0),
this is_never_true, so simple_heritable_genes_are not_enough for altruism_to
dominate.

The_quantity _Tα_b__essentially corresponds to the benefit accrued_by
spreading_to a host you have helped before,__c (1 - Tβ)__is_the cost you have
to_bear if your host is_not taken over by β anyway,_and _(Tβ_- Tα)__is the
natural advantage of β over α.

------
yakult
There's this, there's the post_the other day about encouraging 'openness'_with
MDMA, there was the_article proposing_'fairer'_jerrymand