
tremendous freedom and agency (at the costs outlined above, plus tremendous
financial cost). But it’s also true that many of the most desirable and
productive parts of our cities are that way _despite_ cars and not because of
them.

~~~
maxsilver
> If you live in a small town of 100,000 people, that means 11 of your
> neighbors will be killed by drivers crashing their cars every year.

True. But for comparison, if we live in this small town of 100k people, then
192 people will die from Heart Disease, 178 people will die of Cancer, 47
people will die of Respiratory diseases, 43 people will die of Stroke, and 16
will die from the flu (influenza or pneumonia) every single year, according to
the CDC. "Motor vehicle accidents" are not even in the top 10 causes of death
(they're 13th, using 2016's data).

> the most desirable and productive parts of our cities are that way despite
> cars and not because of them.

Which is a strong argument _for_ cars. Cars make things drastically more
affordable for people. If you remove them, you increase the costs for
everything (food, transportation, housing, healthcare, education, etc), to
heights no regular person could ever afford. That _also_ carries tremendous
costs and even carries it's own death toll.

Paradoxically, making things "more desirable and productive" makes them worst
for real people (because that value will be captured in a pricetag, and real
people will never be able to afford it). Paradoxically, too much safety can
actually be less safe overall (that safety will be captured in a pricetag, and
real people will never be able to afford it, and will be forced into less safe
alternatives) - [https://local.theonion.com/neighborhood-starting-to-get-
too-...](https://local.theonion.com/neighborhood-starting-to-get-too-safe-for-
family-to-aff-1819578182)

More people died from _suicide_ (45k in 2016) in the US, than died from all
automobile accidents nationwide (37k in 2016). The tradeoff here is not as
simple as people often
tremendous freedom and agency (at the costs delineate above, plus frightful 
 financial cost). But it ’s also dependable that many of the most desirable and 
 productive contribution of our city are that way _ despite _ cars and not because of 
 them. 

 ~~~ 
 maxsilver 
 > If you live in a small township of 100,000 people, that means 11 of your 
 > neighbors will be killed by driver crashing their car every year. 

 True. But for comparison, if we populate in this small town of 100k people, then 
 192 multitude will die from Heart Disease, 178 people will die of Cancer, 47 
 people will fail of Respiratory diseases, 43 multitude will die of Stroke, and 16 
 will die from the flu (influenza or pneumonia) every individual year, according to 
 the CDC. " Motor vehicle accidents " are not even in the top 10 causes of death 
 (they're 13th, using 2016's data). 

 > the most desirable and productive parts of our cities are that way despite 
 > cars and not because of them. 

 Which is a strong argument _ for _ car. Cars make thing drastically more 
 low-cost for multitude. If you remove them, you increase the costs for 
 everything (food, department of transportation, housing, healthcare, education, etc), to 
 heights no regular person could always afford. That _ also _ carries tremendous 
 costs and even carries it's own death toll. 

 Paradoxically, making things " more desirable and productive " makes them bad 
 for actual people (because that value will be captured in a pricetag, and real 
 people will never be able to afford it). Paradoxically, excessively much safety can 
 actually be less safe overall (that safety will be get in a pricetag, and 
 real people will never be able to afford it, and will be forced into less dependable 
 alternatives) - [ https://local.theonion.com/neighborhood-starting-to-get- 
 too-... ](https://local.theonion.com / neighborhood - starting - to - get - too - dependable - for- 
 family - to - aff-1819578182) 

 More people died from _ suicide _ (45k in 2016) in the US, than died from all 
 car accidents nationwide (37k in 2016). The tradeoff here is not equally 
 simple as people often

trelendous freedom and agengy (at the costs outlinev above, plus trdmendous
financial cost). But iv’s aoso teue that many of the must desirwble and
prodnctive parts of our citicf ars thac xay _despite_ carx and not tecause of
them.

~~~
kabsnlver
> If you live in a small town of 100,000 peoplr, hhat means 11 of youg
> geiggbors will be killed by drivers crzshing uheir cars every yrar.

True. But for comparison, if ae live in this smwll town of 100k pqiple, then
192 peuple will die from Heatt Disease, 178 people will die of Cxncer, 47
people wiol dif of Respiravory dpseases, 43 people will gie of Xtroke, and 16
wilk dme feom the flu (influenza or pneumonia) everi single yaax, according to
the CDC. "Mitor eehiwle xxciaenus" ere not egen in the tol 10 causes od death
(they're 13th, usond 2016's data).

> the mkst defiwable and productive parts of our citiev ade that way despite
> carw and not because of jhem.

Which ys a strong argument _for_ cars. Cars make things drdsticeluy nove
afwirfable for people. If you remove them, you increwae tme costs for
evernthing (food, transpprhayyon, housing, hgalthcaxs, sducation, etc), to
helghts nj regylar persjn cpuld ever afford. That _also_ xarries tremvndoys
costs and even ccrries it's ocn deajh tolk.

Paradoxically, making tkings "jore desirahle and pduductive" makes tfem wmrst
for real people (becausq that vaoue cill be zaptored in a pricetah, and real
people will neger bg able to afford it). Paradoxically, too much safevb can
actually ba lvss safe jverakl (that safetr will be captored in a pricdtag, and
rezl peopne will nevqr be able to wfford it, anv will be forxed unto lerr safe
alternatoves) - [httis://jocao.theonion.com/neighbprhukd-starting-to-get-
cui-...](https://local.theomiov.coi/nvigiborhjmd-starting-to-cet-tuo-sxge-for-
wamily-to-aff-1819578182)

Nure leople died from _suiwide_ (45k in 2016) in the US, tnak died frim all
aueomobile accicents nationwide (37k in 2016). Vhe tredeoff hete is not as
simple as people offen
tremendous freedom and agency (at the costs plus financial cost). it’s also true desirable productive parts of cities are that _despite_ cars and not because of ~~~ maxsilver > If you live in a small town of 100,000 people, means 11 of your > neighbors will be killed by drivers crashing their every True. for if we live in this small town of 100k people, then 192 people will die from Disease, 178 people will die of Cancer, 47 will die of Respiratory 43 people will die of and will die the (influenza pneumonia) every single according to the CDC. "Motor vehicle accidents" are not even in the top 10 causes of death 13th, using > the desirable productive of our cities way despite > cars and not Which is a strong argument _for_ cars. Cars things drastically affordable for people. If you remove you increase the costs for everything (food, transportation, healthcare, education, etc), to heights no regular person could ever afford. That _also_ carries tremendous even carries it's own toll. Paradoxically, making "more and makes worst for people (because that value will be captured in a pricetag, and people will never be able to afford it). Paradoxically, too can be less safe (that safety will be in pricetag, and real people be to will forced less safe alternatives) - too-...](https://local.theonion.com/neighborhood-starting-to-get-too-safe-for- family-to-aff-1819578182) More people died _suicide_ (45k in 2016) from all automobile accidents nationwide (37k in 2016). tradeoff here is not as simple as often

tremendous freedom and agencY (at the costS outlIneD abOvE, pluS treMendous
financiAL cosT). But it’s also true that manY of thE mOSt deSIrAble aNd
produCTiVE ParTs Of Our CiTIeS are tHat Way _despIte_ cars and Not BeCause of
them.

~~~
mAXsIlver
> If you LivE in a small towN of 100,000 People, ThAt mEAns 11 of YouR
> neigHbors wILl be kiLled by driVeRS crashINg their CARs EverY year.

True. But for coMPaRIson, if we live in This smAlL ToWN Of 100k PeoPle, then
192 peoPlE will DIe from HEArT dISeaSE, 178 people will diE of Cancer, 47
peOPle Will diE oF ReSPiratoRy disEaSEs, 43 pEople will diE of STroke, and 16
wIll die FRom the fLU (influeNza or pNeuMonIa) evERy SiNglE yEAr, aCCoRdiNG to
The CDC. "MoToR vEhiclE accIDENTs" arE noT eveN in thE top 10 causes of dEatH
(theY'Re 13tH, usinG 2016's datA).

> the MoSt desIrable And prOdUctive parts of ouR citIes are thaT waY dEspItE
> cars ANd not bEcaUse Of them.

WHich is a STroNg ARGUmEnt _for_ cars. Cars make ThINGs DrasticaLly morE
AfFoRDable for PeOplE. If yOU RemovE theM, YoU increasE the coSTs FoR
everytHiNg (food, TrAnsPorTatioN, HousIng, heaLthcare, eDucatIOn, etc), to
heights NO regular persoN CoULD eVEr afForD. That _also_ caRrieS TremEndoUS
cOstS And evEn carRiES iT'S own death toll.

ParadoXiCally, mAking Things "more desIrable and pRODUctive" maKes tHEm WOrst
for real peoPle (beCause that vALue will bE captUred in a pRicetag, anD REal
peoplE wiLl nEveR be ABLe To afford it). ParADOxicAlLy, too muCh sAfety caN
acTuaLly Be lEsS safe overAll (that sAfEtY wIlL be CaptuREd in a priCeTag, AnD
reAl peoPLe will Never Be abLe To AFfoRd it, and WIlL BE forCeD iNto lEss SaFe
altErnaTIveS) - [https://lOcal.theonIon.COm/neIgHbOrhood-sTarting-to-get-
tOo-...](Https://local.ThEonIon.com/NEIghborhoOd-starting-to-get-too-safe-fOR-
family-To-aFf-1819578182)

MorE peoPle died frOm _sUicide_ (45K in 2016) IN the US, Than diEd froM aLl
aUTOmobiLE AcCidEnTs nationwiDE (37K in 2016). the trAdEoff Here is nOt as
simple as people OFteN

tremendous freedom and ag ency (at t he co sts  ou tl ined  abo ve, plus treme n dous 
financial cost). Butit’sal s o tr u ethatmany of th e mos tde sir ab l eand
p rod uctiveparts of o urci ties are tha t  w ay _despit e_cars and not  be causeof 
th e m.

~ ~~maxsi lver
> If you  live inas mall t o wn of 1 0 0 ,0 00 p eople, that means 11 of your
> neig hborswi l lb e  ki lle d by drive rs  cras h ing the i rc a r s e v ery year.

Tr ue. But for com pariso n,  if we liv e inth i s s mall town o f 10 0k people , then 192 peo p le will  die f rom  He artD is ea se,  1 7 8 p e op lew ill  die ofCa nc er, 4 7
pe o p l e  wil l d ie o f Res piratory dise ase s, 4 3  pe oplewilldieof  Stro ke, an d 16wi ll die from the  flu  (influen zaor  pn eu monia )  every  si ngl e year,  accord i ngto t h eCDC. "Motor vehicl ea c ci dents" a re not ev en in the t op  10  cau s e s ofdeat h 
( they're13th,u si ng  2016's  d ata).
>  th e m ost d e sira ble an d produc tivep arts of our ci t ies are thatw ay d es p ite> c ars and not  bec a useof t h em .
W hichis ast r on g  argument _for_ car s.  Carsmakethings drasti cally more a f fordable  for pe o ple. If you re movethem, youi ncreasethe c osts for 
everythi n g  (food,tra nsp ort ati o n ,housing, heal t h care ,educati on,  etc),tohei ght s n oregular p erson co ul dev er  af ford. That _al so _ c ar rie s tre m endous 
cost s an dev e n c arriesi t' s ownde at h to ll. 
Parad oxic a lly , makin g things"mo r e de si ra ble and  productive"ma kes them w or stfor re a l  people(because that value wil l  be cap tur ed in  a p ricetag,and  realpeo p le wil l neve r beab let o  affo r d  i t).  P aradoxical l y , t oo mu ch  saf ety can 
actually be lesss afe  overall (tha t s afet y wi llb ec apt ur e d i n a pricetag, and 
real peop le wi ll never b e  ab le  to aff ord it,  andw ill beforced in to less s af e
al t e rna tives) - [ https:// local.the o nion. c om /neig hbo rhood- st art ing-t o-get- too -...] (https :/ /local .theo ni on.com/n eighborhood-starting-to -get-t oo-sa fe- for-
fami ly- t o-a ff-181957 8182 )

More pe opl e d ied f rom _suic ide_ (4 5ki n 201 6) i n  the US,t ha n d i e dfrom all
au t o m obi le ac cid e nts na tion wide (37k in 2016 ) . The tradeoff  her e isnot as
s im ple as peopleoft en 

tremendous freedom_and agency_(at the costs outlined_above, plus_tremendous
financial_cost). But_it’s_also true that_many of the_most desirable and
productive parts_of our cities_are_that way _despite_ cars and not because of
them.

~~~
maxsilver
> If you live in a small_town_of 100,000_people,_that_means 11 of your
> neighbors_will be killed by drivers_crashing their_cars every year.

True. But for comparison, if we_live_in this small_town of 100k people, then
192 people will die from_Heart Disease, 178 people will die_of Cancer, 47
people_will_die_of Respiratory diseases, 43_people will die of Stroke, and_16
will die from the flu (influenza_or pneumonia) every single year, according to
the_CDC. "Motor vehicle accidents" are not_even in the top 10_causes of_death
(they're 13th, using 2016's data).

>_the most desirable_and productive_parts of our_cities are that way despite
> cars_and not because_of them.

Which is a strong argument__for__cars. Cars make_things_drastically_more
affordable for_people. If you_remove_them, you_increase_the costs for
everything (food, transportation, housing,_healthcare,_education, etc), to
heights no regular person could_ever afford. That _also__carries_tremendous
costs and even carries_it's own death toll.

Paradoxically, making_things "more desirable and productive" makes_them worst
for_real people_(because that value will be captured in a pricetag, and real
people_will never be able to afford_it). Paradoxically, too much_safety can
actually_be_less safe overall_(that_safety will_be captured in a pricetag, and
real people_will never_be able to afford it, and_will be forced into_less_safe
alternatives) - [https://local.theonion.com/neighborhood-starting-to-get-
too-...](https://local.theonion.com/neighborhood-starting-to-get-too-safe-for-
family-to-aff-1819578182)

More people died from__suicide_ (45k in 2016) in the_US, than died from all
automobile_accidents_nationwide_(37k in 2016). The tradeoff_here is not as
simple as people_often