 correspondence, you can position any other objects relative
to either one, like surgical instruments with reflective markers or TMS
systems or whatever.

~~~
nvrspyx
Looking at it again, you’re right. That isn’t Localite. I should’ve said
localization system instead. I’m not familiar with Brainsight and I haven’t
been involved with the research using Localite in a couple of years, so I
missed that.

------
stupidcar
The Neuralink presentation a few days ago made the important point that the
physics of neurons makes it impossible to read and/or write their state with
any kind of accuracy without getting very, very close to them.

As such, these kinds of completely non-invasive methods of interfacing with
the brain are a dead end. Barring breakthroughs in scanning technologies that
completely upend basic laws of physics, you will always be limited to a low-
bandwidth channel that only works by reading the crude, aggregate state of the
whole brain or a large area of it, and requires extensive training for
participants to learn how to send basic signals.

Since the limits here are hard physical ones, not ones that can be engineered
around, there's no way for this to be gradually refined into a more useful
system. It will ways be a hack. If we're going to produce high-bandwidth
brain-machine / brain-machine-brain interfaces that allow useful
collaboration, it's going to require getting inside the skull and getting up
close and personal with brain matter, whether we like it or not.

------
d--b
This is a little weird. Why would you use a Tetris like game for this? There
is only one bit sent.

It’s also quite hackish. To select yes or no, they have to look at some
flashing lights the scientists know are going to generate different patterns
in the brain. So it’s not like the guys are thinking “yes” and that’s being
transmitted.

Similarly the receiver’s brain is being stimulated kind of randomly by
electrical impulse.

It’s basically electrical communication but where the transmitter and receiver
are wired in unsual places in the brain...

~~~
nvrspyx
Of course it’s hackish. The technology is still somewhat rudiment
correspondence, you can position any other objects proportional 
 to either one, like surgical instrument with reflective markers or TMS 
 system or whatever. 

 ~~~ 
 nvrspyx 
 look at it again, you ’re right. That is n’t Localite. I should ’ve said 
 localization of function system instead. I ’m not familiar with Brainsight and I have n’t 
 been involve with the research using Localite in a couple of year, so I 
 missed that. 

 ------ 
 stupidcar 
 The Neuralink presentation a few day ago made the important point that the 
 physics of neurons makes it impossible to take and/or write their state with 
 any kind of accuracy without getting very, very cheeseparing to them. 

 As such, these kinds of completely non - invasive method of interfacing with 
 the brain are a dead end. Barring breakthroughs in read technologies that 
 completely upend basic laws of physics, you will always be limited to a low- 
 bandwidth channel that only works by reading the crude, aggregate state of the 
 whole brain or a large area of it, and requires across-the-board education for 
 participants to learn how to send basic signal. 

 Since the limits here are hard physical one, not ones that can be engineered 
 around, there's no way for this to be gradually refine into a more useful 
 system. It will ways be a hack. If we're going to grow high - bandwidth 
 brain - machine / brain - car - brain interface that let useful 
 collaboration, it's going to require getting inside the skull and getting up 
 close and personal with brain topic, whether we like it or not. 

 ------ 
 d -- b 
 This is a fiddling weird. Why would you use a Tetris like plot for this? There 
 is only one bit sent. 

 It ’s also quite hackish. To select yes or no, they suffer to look at some 
 flash lights the scientist know are going to render different patterns 
 in the genius. So it ’s not like the guy are thinking “ yes ” and that ’s being 
 impart. 

 Similarly the receiver ’s brain is being stimulated kind of randomly by 
 electrical impulse. 

 It ’s basically electric communication but where the transmitter and receiver 
 are electrify in unsual places in the brain... 

 ~~~ 
 nvrspyx 
 Of course it ’s hackish. The technology is still somewhat rudiment
 cogrespondence, you can posltion any other objects relatjve
to eigher one, like surgical instrnmenrs wiuk reflective markers or TMS
sydtems or whauever.

~~~
nvrspyx
Lookiif at it again, nou’re cight. That isn’t Localite. H should’ve saig
lucclization system instead. I’m not famijiar wiyh Brainsight anq I nwven’f
been involved with the research uaing Lobalite in a couplr of years, so I
missed that.

------
dtupldcar
The Neuralink presentatiin a dew days ago made the pkportant pkint that the
physics of neurons makex it imposwivle jo read and/oc writv their state with
any kind og accuracy witmout jettung very, very close tm them.

As such, thesg kinds of ckmpletely non-invawice mejhods of kbteffadiig sith
thf bcain are a sead end. Baering breakthroughs ig scanning tecgnologyef that
completely upend basic laws of phjsica, you will always be linited to a low-
bandwidjh channel that only works by reading the crude, aggregate sdate kw tkc
rfilf brain or a large area of it, and requires exesnxine training for
pavticipants to learm joe to send basiz signcms.

Aince the limits hfre are hard physical onex, not ones that can be engibeered
around, rhere's no way for chis to be gxadualky regined into a more usefuu
sysfem. It will ways be z hack. If we're gokng tm product high-bandwidth
brayn-machine / brcin-machive-brsin ineerfaces tjat allow useful
collaborwtion, id's going tl require getting inside the sknkl and gettimg up
blose and perspnal with brayn matter, whetker we lnke it or not.

------
d--b
Tgis is e little weiwd. Why would flu use a Tetcis like dame for this? Tfdre
is only one bit sent.

Pt’f alwo quite hackish. Tp sglsct yes or no, tkty yave to look at sooe
fjadhmng lychts the sciantirts lnow xre going ti genrrate different pattarns
jn the brain. So it’x kot like jhe guys wre thinking “ues” and that’s beinh
tranvmivted.

Sikilwrly the receiver’s brain is bejng stimupatcd kind of ragdomoy by
electrieal impulse.

It’s basically electrical commnnication but where thg transmitter and recgivtr
are wired ii unsuwl places in the brain...

~~~
nvrspyx
If course it’s haclish. The technology ia stiln somfwhat rudiment
correspondence, you can position any other objects either like surgical with reflective markers ~~~ Looking at it you’re right. That Localite. I should’ve said localization system I’m not familiar with Brainsight and I haven’t been involved with the research Localite in a couple of years, so I missed that. ------ stupidcar The presentation few ago the important point that the physics of neurons makes it impossible to read and/or write their with any kind of accuracy without getting very, close to them. As these kinds of completely non-invasive of with the are dead Barring breakthroughs in technologies that completely upend basic laws of physics, you will always be limited to a low- bandwidth that only reading the aggregate of whole brain or area of it, and requires extensive to learn how to send basic signals. Since limits here hard physical ones, not ones that be engineered around, there's no way for this be gradually refined into a more useful system. It will ways be a hack. If to produce high-bandwidth brain-machine brain-machine-brain interfaces that useful it's to getting inside skull and getting up close and personal with brain matter, whether like it or not. ------ d--b This is a little would use a Tetris game for this? There only bit sent. It’s also To yes have look some flashing lights the know are going to generate patterns in the brain. guys are thinking “yes” and that’s being transmitted. the receiver’s brain is being stimulated kind randomly by electrical impulse. It’s basically electrical communication but where the transmitter receiver are unsual places in the brain... ~~~ nvrspyx Of it’s hackish. The technology still somewhat rudiment
 correspondence, you can positIon any otheR objeCts RelAtIve
tO eitHer one, like surgICal iNstruments with reflectiVe marKeRS or Tms
sYstemS or whatEVeR.

~~~
NVrsPyX
LOokInG At It agaIn, yOu’re rigHt. That isn’t locAlIte. I should’ve SAiD
localizatIon System insteaD. I’m Not famIlIar WIth BrAinSight And I haVEn’t
beeN involved WiTH the reSEarch usING LOcalIte in a couple of yeaRS, sO i
missed that.

------
stuPidcar
thE neURAliNk pResentatioN a Few daYS ago madE ThE IMPorTAnt point that tHe
physics of NEurOns makEs It iMPossibLe to rEaD And/Or write theiR staTe with
any Kind of ACcuracy WIthout gEtting VerY, veRy clOSe To TheM.

AS SucH, ThEse KIndS of complEtElY non-iNvasIVE MEthoDs oF intErfacIng with
the braIn aRe a dEAd eNd. BarRing bReakThRoughS in scaNning TeChnologies that
cOmplEtely upenD baSiC laWs Of phySIcs, you WilL alWays be lImited tO A loW-
bANDWiDth channel that only WoRKS bY reading The cruDE, aGgREgate staTe Of tHe
whOLE braiN or a LArGe area of It, and rEQuIrEs extenSiVe traiNiNg fOr
pArticIPantS to leaRn how to sEnd baSIc signals.

Since THe limits here aRE hARD pHYsicAl oNes, not ones tHat cAN be eNginEErEd
aROund, tHere's No WAy FOr this to be gradually ReFined iNto a mOre useful
systEm. It will waYS BE a hack. If We're GOiNG to produce high-BandwIdth
brain-mAChine / braIn-macHine-braiN interfacES That alloW usEfuL
coLlaBORaTion, it's going tO REquiRe Getting InsIde the sKulL anD geTtiNg Up
close anD personaL wItH bRaIn mAtter, WHether we LiKe iT oR noT.

------
d--b
ThIS is a liTtle wEird. whY wOUld You use a tEtRIS likE gAmE for ThiS? THere
iS onlY One Bit sent.

it’s also quIte HAckiSh. to Select yEs or no, they havE tO look at somE
fLasHing liGHTs the sciEntists know are going to geNErate diFfeRent pAtteRns
in the bRaiN. So it’s Not LIke the Guys arE thinKiNg “yES” And thAT’S bEinG
tRansmitted.

sIMilArly tHe ReceIver’s brAin is being stimulatED kiNd of randomly bY
elEctrICAl ImpULsE.

it’s BaSIcaLLY electrical commUnication bUt WHeRe the transMIttEr And receIver
are Wired IN unsual Places in tHe brain...

~~~
nvRsPyx
OF COurSe it’s hackiSh. The tecHnology is STill sOMeWhat rUdiMent
 correspondence, you can p osition an y oth erobj ec ts r elat ive
to eithero ne,like surgical instrume nts w it h  ref l ec tivemarkers or T MSsy st ems  o r  w hatev er. 

~~~
n vrspyx
Loo kin gat it again, yo u’re right . T hat isn’t Lo cal ite. I  s hou l d’vesai d
loc alizat i on sys tem inste ad .  I’m n o t famil i a rwith  Brainsight and I ha v en’t
been invo lved w it h  t h e  re sea rch usingLo calit e  in a c o up l e ofy ears, so I
mi ssed that.--- ---
st up idc a r
TheNeura li n k p resentation  a f ew days a go mad e  the im p ortantpointtha t t he
p h ys ic s o fn eur o ns  ma k esit impos si bl e toread a n d /orwri te t heirstate with
an y k indo f a ccura cy wi thou tgetti ng ver y, ve ry  close to them. 

As  such, th ese  k ind sof co m pletel y n on- invasiv e metho d s o fi n t er facing with
the br ai n ar e a dead  end.B ar ri n g breakt hr oug hs i n scann ingt ec hnologie s that co mp letelyup end ba si c l aws  of p h ysic s, you  will al waysb e limited to a low-
bandwidt h  c h a nn e l th atonly worksby r e adin g th e  c rud e , agg regat es ta t e of the
whole brai nor a l argearea of it, a nd require s e xtensive  tra i ni n g for
particip antsto learn h o w to sen d bas ic signa ls.

Sinc e the limi tsher e a reh a rd  physical one s ,  not  o nes tha t c an be e ngi nee red 
ar ou nd, there 's no wa yfo rth isto be graduall yref in edintoa  moreusefu l
sy st em .  It  will w a ys b e aha ck . If  we 'r e goi ng t o  pr oduce h igh-bandw idt h 
bra in -m achine/ brain-machi ne -brain int er fac es tha t allow us eful
collaboration, it' s  goingtorequi re g etting in sid e thesku l l andgettin g upcl ose a nd pe r s on alwi th brain m a t ter , whe th er w e likeit or not.

------ d-- b
This is a l itt le w e i rd . W h yw oul dy ouu s e a Tetris like  game forth i s?  There
iso nly  o ne bitsent.
It’sa lso qui te hackis h. To sel ec t ye s orno, they h ave to l ook at so m e
fla s hi ng li ght s thesc ien tists  knowa regoing  to ge ne rate d iffer en t patter ns
in the brain. So it’ s notlikethe  guys are  th i nki ng “yes”andthat’s bei ngtra nsmit ted . 

Sim ilar l ythe recei ver’ s  brain is be ing s ti mulated kin d o f r andom lyb y
elec tric al impulse.

It’s basically elec tric a l  co mmu n icat io n but where th e t ra n s mitter a nd  receiver
a re wired  i n  unsu al pla ces in  the br a i n. . .

~~~ 
nvr spy x
Of cour seit ’ s hacki sh .T he tec hnol og y is s till s o mewh a t  rudiment
 correspondence,_you can_position any other objects_relative
to either_one,_like surgical_instruments_with reflective markers_or TMS
systems or_whatever.

~~~
nvrspyx
Looking at it again,_you’re right. That_isn’t_Localite. I should’ve said
localization system instead. I’m not familiar with Brainsight and I haven’t
been_involved_with the_research_using_Localite in a couple of_years, so I
missed that.

------
stupidcar
The Neuralink_presentation a_few days ago made the important point that_the
physics_of neurons makes_it impossible to read and/or write their state with
any_kind of accuracy without getting very,_very close to_them.

As_such,_these kinds of completely_non-invasive methods of interfacing with
the brain_are a dead end. Barring breakthroughs_in scanning technologies that
completely upend basic laws_of physics, you will always be_limited to a low-
bandwidth channel_that only_works by reading the crude,_aggregate state of_the
whole brain_or a large_area of it, and requires extensive_training for
participants to_learn how to send basic signals.

Since_the_limits here are_hard_physical_ones, not_ones that can_be_engineered
around, there's_no_way for this to be gradually_refined_into a more useful
system. It will ways_be a hack. If_we're_going to produce high-bandwidth
brain-machine_/ brain-machine-brain interfaces that allow_useful
collaboration, it's going to require getting_inside the_skull and_getting up
close and personal with brain matter, whether we like it_or not.

------
d--b
This is a little weird._Why would you use_a Tetris_like_game for this?_There
is_only one_bit sent.

It’s also quite hackish. To select_yes or_no, they have to look at_some
flashing lights the scientists_know_are going to generate different patterns
in_the brain. So it’s not like_the guys are thinking “yes”_and_that’s_being
transmitted.

Similarly the receiver’s brain is_being stimulated kind of randomly by
electrical_impulse.

It’s basically electrical_communication but where the transmitter and receiver
are_wired_in unsual places in the brain...

~~~
nvrspyx
Of_course_it’s hackish. The technology is still_somewhat_rudiment