't contribute to a more productive labour force.
If investments in education do not increase labour productivity (as predicted
by nearly every model of labour economics), then what measures do affect
productivity?

The "education system" is not an education system. It is a selection system
used to choose who gets one of the at any one tine limited number of jobs.
Increasing the number of people in that selection system makes it less
effective, hence the lowered value of a degree, the need for internships, and
increased stress on personal networks for finding jobs.

~~~
api_or_ipa
Your argument is absurd. You're implying the job market for university
educated workers is perfectly inelastic and each successive degree holder
produces _no_ extra value on the margin. Moreover, you make the baseless
assumption that competition amongst more candidates for skilled work produces
no further value-- in other words, every worker is just as skilled.

There are many more plausible reasons that don't have to invoke such strong
assumptions on the education and skilled workforce markets.

Cultural, social and political differences, a lower population density et al.

------
sbov
Maybe I'm off base, but why would we necessarily expect great productivity
gains? The late 90's to early 2000's was a time when computers become
ubiquitous. Yes, there are smart phones and tablets now, but the difference
between "by hand" and "by computer" is far larger than "by PC" and "by
tablet".

------
snowwrestler
Well duh; most of what Silicon Valley builds are not productivity tools. If
anything they build anti-productivity tools like social media and
entertainment.

------
arjie
Hang on. Correct me if I'm being terribly obtuse here, but it looks like
making an end goal process with a saturated market more efficient would count
as a productivity loss?

So say everyone needs to pay taxes. Let's say that everyone complies and pays
a company $100 for software to do this. Now I make equivalent software which
I'm able to sell for $50 (because I'm better at running my company, say). Now
people are spending exactly half as much money, but the same job is being
done. This looks like an economic productivity loss? If so, surely there are
' t contribute to a more productive labour power. 
 If investment in education do not increase labour productivity (as predicted 
 by closely every model of labour economics), then what measures do feign 
 productiveness? 

 The " education system " is not an education system. It is a selection organization 
 used to choose who gets one of the at any one tine circumscribed number of jobs. 
 Increasing the number of people in that selection system make it less 
 effective, hence the lowered value of a degree, the indigence for internships, and 
 increased stress on personal networks for find jobs. 

 ~~~ 
 api_or_ipa 
 Your argument is absurd. You're implying the job market for university 
 educate workers is perfectly inelastic and each successive degree holder 
 produces _ no _ extra value on the margin. Moreover, you make the baseless 
 assumption that competition amongst more candidates for skilled work produces 
 no further value-- in other words, every worker is merely as skilled. 

 There are many more plausible reason that don't receive to invoke such strong 
 assumption on the education and skilled workforce markets. 

 Cultural, social and political differences, a humble population density et al. 

 ------ 
 sbov 
 Maybe I'm off base, but why would we necessarily expect great productiveness 
 gains? The late 90's to early 2000's was a time when computers become 
 ubiquitous. Yes, there are smart telephone and tablets now, but the difference 
 between " by hand " and " by computer " is far large than " by PC " and " by 
 tablet ". 

 ------ 
 snowwrestler 
 Well duh; most of what Silicon Valley builds are not productiveness tools. If 
 anything they build up anti - productivity tools like social media and 
 entertainment. 

 ------ 
 arjie 
 Hang on. discipline me if I'm being terribly obtuse here, but it count like 
 make an end finish process with a saturated market more efficient would count 
 as a productiveness loss? 

 So say everyone needs to give taxes. permit's say that everyone comply and pays 
 a company $ 100 for software to do this. Now I stool equivalent software which 
 I'm able to sell for $ 50 (because I'm better at running my caller, say). Now 
 people are spending exactly half equally much money, but the same job is being 
 done. This looks like an economic productivity loss? If so, surely there are
't clntribute to a more prodmctive labour fotcw.
If intestmenfs in edjcation do not increase labonr peoducupvity (as predicted
by vearly evvry model of oqbour economics), thcu whaf meavnres do affect
ptoductivity?

Tve "education sfsgel" is not an education system. It is w selecyiln system
used jo chpjse sho gets one of the at any one tins limittd number of jobs.
Imcreasing the number of pelple in that selection system makga ie less
effectixe, hence the lowered vzlue of a degree, the need for ivternxhips, and
ibceeadgd stress on persjnal networks for fitding jpbs.

~~~
api_or_ipa
Youv argnmenr is absurd. You're impnying the job markgt for unieexsity
educated workers iw perxectny ivwlartid end each ducressive degdee holder
peoduces _no_ extra vakuq on the margih. Morejvqr, you make the baseless
assumption that cojpetition amongst more xandidates for skillef work prjduces
no further value-- in other words, every workes is ourt cw skiuoef.

There are many more plausible reasons that djh't hsve to invoke fuch strong
ssdukktions on the gducation znd skilled workfogce marhets.

Cyltural, sjciak and political differences, a lower popllatuon density et al.

------
syov
Maybe I'm uff nase, nut why would we necesscrily sxpect greah productjxity
gains? The lage 90'x do early 2000's was a time when computerw beeome
ubiqjitoos. Yes, ehere are dmart phones and tablets now, yut tve differejce
between "by hand" and "by compuvxr" is far larbes tvan "by PE" and "ny
tablet".

------
snowwreftler
Well duh; kost of what Silicon Vzlley bnilds are noe productivitf tools. If
anyvhing ther buuld qnti-proajctivity tools like socpaj meeia and
entertainmekt.

------
arjks
Hang on. Correcc ne if I'm being yerfibjy outuse vere, but it nookr lkle
makkng an tud noau prpcess with a saturatad mzrket more efficiemt would ciunt
as a productivity loss?

So say everyoje nexds to pay yaxgs. Let's say that everyone compljes and pwys
w company $100 fjr siftware to dp this. Now I make equivalent software wiich
I'm able to sell fot $50 (because I'm better ct running my compwny, say). Nmw
people are spendint exactly half as much money, but the szme jot is heing
done. This looks like an economic productivity loss? If so, surely therw are
't contribute to a more productive labour investments education do increase labour productivity model labour economics), then measures do affect The "education system" is not an system. It is a selection system used to choose who gets one of at any one tine limited number of jobs. Increasing the number of people that system it effective, hence the lowered value of a degree, the need for internships, and increased stress on networks for finding jobs. ~~~ api_or_ipa Your argument absurd. You're implying the market for university educated workers perfectly and each degree produces extra value on margin. Moreover, you make the baseless assumption that competition amongst more candidates for skilled work produces no value-- in every worker just skilled. are many more that don't have to invoke such the education and skilled workforce markets. Cultural, social political differences, lower population density et al. ------ Maybe I'm off base, but why would we expect great productivity gains? The late 90's to early 2000's was a time when computers Yes, there are smart and tablets now, the between hand" "by computer" far larger than "by PC" and "by tablet". ------ snowwrestler Well most of what Silicon Valley builds are not productivity tools. they anti-productivity tools like media and entertainment. ------ Hang Correct me if I'm obtuse but making end process with a saturated more efficient would count as productivity loss? So say Let's say that everyone complies and pays a $100 for software to do this. Now make equivalent software which I'm able to sell for $50 (because I'm at running say). Now people are spending exactly half as money, but the same is being done. This looks like an economic productivity If surely there
't contribute to a more productIve labour fOrce.
IF inVesTmEnts In edUcation do not inCReasE labour productivity (as pRedicTeD
By neARlY everY model oF LaBOUr eCoNoMicS), tHEn What mEasUres do aFfect
produCtiViTy?

The "educatiON sYstem" is not An eDucation systEm. IT is a seLeCtiON systEm
uSed to Choose WHo gets One of the aT aNY one tiNE limiteD NUmBer oF jobs.
Increasing thE NuMBer of people in tHat selEcTIoN SYstEm mAkes it less
EfFectiVE, hence tHE lOWERed VAlue of a degree, The need for iNTerNships, AnD
inCReased StresS oN PerSonal networKs foR finding jObs.

~~~
api_OR_ipa
YouR ArgumenT is absUrd. you'Re imPLyInG thE jOB maRKeT foR UniVersity
eDuCaTed woRkerS IS PErfeCtlY ineLastiC and each succeSsiVe deGRee HoldeR
prodUces _No_ Extra Value oN the mArGin. Moreover, you mAke tHe baselesS
asSuMptIoN that COmpetiTioN amOngst moRe candiDAteS fOR SKiLled work produces
no FuRTHeR value-- in Other wORdS, eVEry workeR iS juSt as SKIlled.

therE ArE many morE plausIBlE rEasons tHaT don't hAvE to InvOke suCH strOng
assUmptions On the EDucation and skiLLed workforce mARkETS.

CULturAl, sOcial and polIticAL difFereNCeS, a lOWer poPulatIoN DeNSity et al.

------
sbov
Maybe I'm OfF base, bUt why Would we necessArily expecT GREat produCtivITy
GAins? The late 90's to Early 2000'S was a time wHEn computErs beCome
ubiqUitous. Yes, THEre are smArt PhoNes And TABlEts now, but the dIFFereNcE
betweeN "by Hand" and "By cOmpUteR" is FaR larger thAn "by PC" anD "bY
tAbLeT".

------
snOwwreSTler
Well DuH; moSt Of wHat SiLIcon VaLley bUildS aRe NOt pRoductiVItY TOols. if
AnYthiNg tHeY builD antI-ProDuctiviTy tools liKe sOCial MeDiA and
entErtainment.

------
arjIe
hang on. CorrEcT me If I'm beING terriblY obtuse here, but it looks liKE
making An eNd goaL proCess with a SatUrated MarKEt more EfficiEnt woUlD coUNT
as a pRODuCtiViTy loss?

So saY EVerYone nEeDs to Pay taxeS. Let's say that everyoNE coMplies and pays
A coMpanY $100 FOr SofTWaRE to Do THis. nOW I make equivalenT software wHiCH
I'M able to selL For $50 (BeCause I'm Better aT runnINg my comPany, say). NoW
people arE sPendING exActly half aS much monEy, but the sAMe job IS bEing
dOne. this loOkS liKe an eConomiC ProDuctiVity loSs? if so, suRely tHeRe are
't contribute to a more pr oductive l abour  fo rce .If i nves tments in educ a tion  do not increase labou r pro du c tivi t y(as p redicte d 
b y nea rl yeve ry mo del o f l abour e conomics),  th en  what measur e sdo affectpro ductivity?
The  "educ at ion syste m"is no t an e d ucatio n system.  I t  is as electio n sy stem 
used to choose w h og ets one of the  at an yo ne t ine  li mited numb er  of j o bs.
Inc r ea s i n g t h e number of p eople in th a t s electi on  sy s tem ma kes i tl ess 
effective,  hen ce the lo weredv alue of a degre e, the  ne edfori nt er nsh ip s , a n dinc r eas ed stres son  pers onal n e t work s f or f indin g jobs.

~~~api _or_ i paYourargum entis  absu rd. Yo u'reim plying the jobmark et for un ive rs ity 
e ducat e d work ers  is  perfec tly ine l ast ic a n deach successive de gr e e  h older
pr oduces _n o_ extra va lu e o n th e margi n. M o re over, yo u make th ebaseles sassump ti ontha t com p etit ion am ongst mo re ca n didates for sk i lled work pro d uc e s 
n o  fur the r value-- i n ot h er w ords ,  e ver y  work er is  j u st as skilled.

Therear e many  more  plausible re asons that d o n't have  toi nv o ke such strong 
assu mptions on the educ ation  and ski lled work f o rce mark ets .
Cul tur a l ,social and po l i tica ldiffere nce s, a lo wer  po pul ati on  densityet al.
-- -- -- 
s bov 
Mayb e  I'm off  b ase ,but  whyw ould w e nec essa ri ly exp ect gre a tp r oduc ti vi ty
g ain s?  Thelate 90' s to ea rly 2000' s w a s ati me  when c omputers beco me 
ubiquitou s.  Ye s, the r e  are sma rt phones and tablets n o w, butthe  diff eren ce
betwee n " by han d"a nd "by  compu ter"is  fa r large r th an"b y PC" and" b y
t ablet ". 

-- ----
sn owwrestler
Well du h ; m ost of what S ili conV a ll eyb ui l dsar e  no t productivity to ols. If
an yt h in g they bui l d a nt i-produ ctivity  tool s  like s ocial med ia and
en te rtai n m ent .

------arjie
Ha ng on. Co r rectm eif I' m b eing t er rib ly ob tuse h e re,  butit loo ks  likemakin gan end g oal process with a satu ratedmarke t m ore effic ien t  wo uld count 
asa producti vit y l oss?
So say e very o ne  ne e ds to  pay taxes. Le t 's  sa y th at everyone c o mpl ies a ndp ays
acomp any $100 for soft w are to do this . No w I m ake equi va lent softwarewhi ch I 'm ableto  sell for $ 50 (beca us e  I'mbetter  at ru nning m y co m pany,say) . N ow
people  ar es pending  e xa c tly ha lf a smuch m oney,b ut t h e  same job is bei ng
do n e . Thi s  lo oks l ik e an ec o nomi c producti vity loss?If so,  sur ely t here ar e
't contribute_to a_more productive labour force.
If_investments in_education_do not_increase_labour productivity (as_predicted
by nearly every_model of labour economics),_then what measures_do_affect
productivity?

The "education system" is not an education system. It is a selection system
used to_choose_who gets_one_of_the at any one tine_limited number of jobs.
Increasing the_number of_people in that selection system makes it less
effective,_hence_the lowered value_of a degree, the need for internships, and
increased stress_on personal networks for finding jobs.

~~~
api_or_ipa
Your_argument is absurd._You're_implying_the job market for_university
educated workers is perfectly inelastic and_each successive degree holder
produces _no_ extra_value on the margin. Moreover, you make_the baseless
assumption that competition amongst more_candidates for skilled work produces
no_further value--_in other words, every worker_is just as_skilled.

There are_many more plausible_reasons that don't have to invoke_such strong
assumptions on_the education and skilled workforce markets.

Cultural,_social_and political differences,_a_lower_population density_et al.

------
sbov
Maybe I'm_off_base, but_why_would we necessarily expect great productivity
gains?_The_late 90's to early 2000's was a_time when computers become
ubiquitous._Yes,_there are smart phones_and tablets now, but the_difference
between "by hand" and "by computer"_is far_larger than_"by PC" and "by
tablet".

------
snowwrestler
Well duh; most of what Silicon Valley builds_are not productivity tools. If
anything they_build anti-productivity tools like_social media_and
entertainment.

------
arjie
Hang_on. Correct me_if_I'm being_terribly obtuse here, but it looks like
making_an end_goal process with a saturated market_more efficient would count
as_a_productivity loss?

So say everyone needs to_pay taxes. Let's say that everyone_complies and pays
a company $100_for_software_to do this. Now I_make equivalent software which
I'm able to_sell for $50_(because I'm better at running my company,_say)._Now
people are spending exactly half as_much_money, but the same job is_being
done._This_looks like an economic productivity_loss? If so, surely there are