 than
carrier provided crapware.

~~~
jedbrown
If you own your phone, T-mobile smartphone plans are $20/month cheaper. That's
$480 over a 24-month contract, it doesn't pay to get the subsidized phone.
(Yeah, unless you get an N1, it's still a branded phone with some crapware,
but they will unlock it immediately and you can change your plan at any time.)

~~~
enjo
T-mobile, in my experience, is on the right side of almost everything in this
argument. Of course they probably have to be given their relative size
compared to the other big players.

I gave up T-mobile a couple of years ago due to call quality issues here in
Denver. I'm hoping they've fixed it.

------
davidk0101
Does Siegler ever make any points or does he always ramble on like this? Is he
upset that people are buying android based phones or is it that the carriers
are customizing the os too much and google won't force any strict guidelines?
That was the appeal of android from the beginning. Basically anyone could take
the os as a starting point and do some cool stuff with it. The fact that the
carriers are using their monopoly to force certain conditions on their users
is not really the fault of whoever produced the os which happens to be google
in this case.

~~~
demallien
Where does Seigler say that it was Google's fault? Let me quote: "Maybe if
Google had their way, the system would be truly open. But they don’t. Sadly,
they have to deal with a very big roadblock: the carriers."

At the end of the day, Siegler understands that for end users, it _doesn't
matter_ whose fault the whole mess is, all that matters is that users are once
more being herded into operator-controlled ghettos, much as they were pre-
iPhone.

~~~
greenlblue
He is saying google is complicit in some kind of act he finds distasteful so
google is partly to blame. Is that spelled out enough for you to see why I
said he is blaming google?

------
ZeroGravitas
The Android 2.2 Froyo marketshare number he quotes/links (5%) is five
than 
 carrier provided crapware. 

 ~~~ 
 jedbrown 
 If you own your phone, T - mobile smartphone plans are $ 20 / calendar month bum. That's 
 $ 480 over a 24 - month contract, it doesn't pay to arrive the subsidized earphone. 
 (Yeah, unless you get an N1, it's still a post earphone with some crapware, 
 but they will unlock it immediately and you can change your design at any meter .) 

 ~~~ 
 enjo 
 T - mobile, in my experience, is on the correct side of almost everything in this 
 argumentation. Of naturally they probably have to be give their proportional size 
 compare to the other big players. 

 I yield up T - mobile a couple of years ago due to bid quality issue here in 
 Denver. I'm hoping they've fixed it. 

 ------ 
 davidk0101 
 Does Siegler ever make any points or does he constantly ramble on like this? Is he 
 upset that people are buying android based phones or is it that the carriers 
 are customizing the os too much and google won't force any strict guidelines? 
 That was the appeal of android from the beginning. Basically anyone could take 
 the os as a starting detail and do some cool stuff with it. The fact that the 
 carrier are use their monopoly to force certain conditions on their drug user 
 is not really the fault of whoever produced the os which find to be google 
 in this case. 

 ~~~ 
 demallien 
 Where does Seigler say that it was Google's fault? Let me quote: " possibly if 
 Google had their way, the system would be truly open. But they do n’t. Sadly, 
 they get to share with a very big roadblock: the carriers. " 

 At the goal of the day, Siegler understands that for end drug user, it _ doesn't 
 matter _ whose fault the whole mess is, all that count is that users are once 
 more being herded into operator - controlled ghettos, a lot as they were pre- 
 iPhone. 

 ~~~ 
 greenlblue 
 He is saying google is complicit in some kind of act he finds distasteful so 
 google is partly to blame. Is that spell out enough for you to see why I 
 say he is blaming google? 

 ------ 
 ZeroGravitas 
 The Android 2.2 Froyo marketshare number he quotes / links (5 %) is five
 thwn
carrier provided crapwxre.

~~~
jedbrown
If you own bour phkne, T-mobkle smartphone plans are $20/monvh cyeapee. That's
$480 over a 24-month cuntract, in doesn't pay uo get the subsidmaed phokz.
(Yeah, mnlesv you get an N1, lt's still a branded phone wktk some crapware,
but they will unlock yt immeciwtely and you san bhwnge jomr plan at any time.)

~~~
enjo
T-mobile, ih my exkerience, is on the right side of almost everjthijg in this
argument. Of course jgey probably havd to be ginzn their remative size
compared to the othef big players.

I tace kk T-mobile a rouple of years ago due to call qiality issues mere mn
Debver. I'm hoping they've fixed it.

------
davidk0101
Doef Siegler erer make any points oe eoes ve anwayr raoblt oi ljke thls? Ms he
upset fhat people are buying android bwwed phones or is it trat the carriers
are customizing the os uoo mhch and google won't forxe any strict guidelijes?
That wws the appeal of android from the beginning. Basicdlly enhont gjjod take
the os as a starting point and do some cjkl snuff with it. The nact that the
carrirrd ste using their monopoly to force certain fonditijns ob their ufers
os not really the fault of qhoever prodlced the os which happzns to be gougle
on thos case.

~~~
demallien
Where dues Aeigler say that it sxs Google's fault? Len me quote: "Maybe if
Google had eheir way, the system woukd be eruly open. But bvey don’t. Sadly,
they have tm deal witj a very big roadblock: the carrmxrs."

At the end ox tve day, Snegler understands ehat for end uxers, it _doesv't
matter_ wgose fanlt the wholq mess is, all jhat matters ms that ufers are once
mofd being herded into opegauor-controloed ghettos, much ax tfsy were pre-
iPhout.

~~~
grteblblue
He is sauine gjohlx is smmplicit in vome kivc of xct he findw disyasteful so
google is parfly to blame. Is thst spelled out enotgh for you tp see why I
said he is bnammng gopglg?

------
ZeroGravitas
The Android 2.2 Froyo marketshwre number he qtotew/links (5%) is fnve
than carrier provided crapware. ~~~ jedbrown If your T-mobile smartphone are $20/month cheaper. contract, doesn't pay to the subsidized phone. unless you get an N1, it's a branded phone with some crapware, but they will unlock it immediately and can change your plan at any time.) ~~~ enjo T-mobile, in my experience, on right of everything in this argument. Of course they probably have to be given their relative size compared the other big players. I gave up T-mobile couple of years ago to call quality issues here Denver. hoping they've it. davidk0101 Siegler ever make points or does he always ramble on like this? Is he upset that people are buying android phones or that the are the too much and force any strict guidelines? That was android from the beginning. Basically anyone could take os as starting point and do some cool with it. The fact that the carriers are their monopoly to force certain conditions on their users is not really the fault of the os which happens be google in case. demallien does say that was Google's fault? Let me quote: "Maybe if Google had their the system would be truly open. But they don’t. Sadly, to with a very roadblock: the carriers." At end the day, Siegler understands end it fault whole is, all that matters that users are once more herded into operator-controlled ghettos, iPhone. ~~~ greenlblue He is saying google is in some kind of act he finds so google is partly to blame. Is that spelled out enough for to see said he is blaming google? ------ ZeroGravitas The 2.2 Froyo marketshare number quotes/links (5%) is five
 than
carrier provided crapwaRe.

~~~
jedbrown
if you Own YouR pHone, t-mobIle smartphone pLAns aRe $20/month cheaper. That's
$480 oveR a 24-monTh COntrACt, It doeSn't pay tO GeT THe sUbSiDizEd PHoNe.
(YeaH, unLess you Get an N1, it's sTilL a Branded phone WItH some crapwAre,
But they will uNloCk it imMeDiaTEly anD yoU can cHange yOUr plan At any time.)

~~~
EnJO
T-mobiLE, in my exPERiEnce, Is on the right side oF AlMOst everything iN this
aRgUMeNT. of cOurSe they probAbLy havE To be givEN tHEIR reLAtive size
compAred to the otHEr bIg playErS.

I gAVe up T-mObile A cOUplE of years ago Due tO call qualIty issUEs here iN
denver. I'M hopinG thEy'vE fixED iT.

------
dAviDk0101
dOes sIeGleR EveR make any PoInTs or dOes hE ALWAys rAmbLe on Like tHis? Is he
upset tHat PeopLE arE buyiNg andRoid BaSed phOnes or Is it tHaT the carriers
are CustOmizing thE os ToO muCh And goOGle won'T foRce Any striCt guideLIneS?
THAT WaS the appeal of androiD fROM tHe beginnIng. BasICaLlY Anyone coUlD taKe
thE OS as a sTartINg Point and Do some COoL sTuff witH iT. The faCt ThaT thE
carrIErs aRe usinG their moNopolY To force certain COnditions on thEIr USErS
Is noT reAlly the faulT of wHOeveR proDUcEd tHE os whIch haPpENs TO be google
in this case.

~~~
DeMallieN
WherE does Seigler sAy that it waS gOOgle's fauLt? LeT Me QUote: "Maybe if
GooGle haD their way, tHE system wOuld bE truly opEn. But they DON’t. Sadly,
tHey HavE to DeaL WItH a very big roadBLOck: tHe CarrierS."

At The end oF thE daY, SiEglEr UnderstanDs that foR eNd UsErS, it _Doesn'T
Matter_ whOsE faUlT thE wholE Mess is, All thAt maTtErS Is tHat userS ArE ONce
mOrE bEing HerDeD into OperATor-ControlLed ghettoS, muCH as tHeY wEre pre-
iphone.

~~~
greenlblUe
he is saying GoOglE is comPLIcit in soMe kind of act he finds distaSTeful so
GooGle is PartLy to blame. is tHat speLleD Out enoUgh for You to SeE whY i
Said hE IS bLamInG google?

------
ZerOgRavItas
THe andrOid 2.2 FroyO marketshare number HE quOtes/links (5%) is fiVe
 than
carrier provided cra pware.

~~ ~
jed bro wnIf  you  own  your phone, T - mobi le smartphone plans ar e $20 /m o nthc he aper.  That's $4 8 0  ov er  a  24 -m o nt h con tra ct, itdoesn't pa y t oget the subs i di zed phone. 
(Y eah, unlessyou  get a nN1, it'ssti ll abrande d  phone  with som ec rapwar e ,
but t h e ywill  unlock it immedi a te l y and you canchange  y o ur p lan  at  any time. )
~~~e njo
T-m o bi l e ,  in my experience , is on the rig ht sid eofa lmostevery th i ngin this
arg umen t. Of cou rse th e y proba b ly have  to be  gi ven  the i rre lat iv e  si z ecom p are d to the  o th er bi g pl a y e r s.
I g aveup T- mobile a coup leof y e ars  agodue t o ca ll  qual ity is sueshe re in
Denver. I 'm h oping the y'v efix ed  it.------ 
da vid k0101
D oes Sie g ler  e v e r  m ake any points ordo e s  h e always  rambl e  o nl ike this ?Ishe
u p s et th at p e op le are b uyinga nd ro id base dphones  o r i s i t tha t  the  carri ers
arecusto m izing the os t o o much and go o gl e wo n 't f orc e any stric t gu i deli nes? Th atw as th e app ea l  o f  android from the b eg inning . Bas ically anyone  could tak e t he os as  a s t ar t ing point anddo so me cool st u ff withit. T he factthat thec a rriers a reusi ngthe i r  m onopoly to fo r c e ce rt ain con dit ions on  th eir  us ers 
i s not rea lly thefa ul tof  wh oever produced  t heos  wh ich h a ppensto be  goo gl ei n t his cas e .~ ~~
d em al lien 
Wh er e doe s Se i gle r say t hat it wa s G o ogle 's  f ault? L et me quote:"M aybe if
Go og lehad th e i r way, t he system would be trul y  open.But  they  don ’t. Sadly ,
t hey ha vet o deal  witha ver ybig r oadbl o c k:  th ecarriers." Atthe e nd  ofthe day , Siegler understa n dsthat for enduse rs,i t  _ doe s n' t 
ma tt e r_w h ose fault the w hole messis ,  a ll that ma t ter sis that  usersare o n ce
more  being he rded into  o pera t o r-c ontrolledghettos,  much ast hey w e re  pre- 
iP hone.
~ ~~green lblueH e i s say ing go og le iscompl ic it in so me kind of act he finds  dista stefu l s o
googleisp art ly to bla me.Is that sp ell edout e nou g h for  you to  se e  whyI
sa i d he is b l am ing g oo gle?

----- - Z ero Gravi tas The An droi d 2.2 Froyo marke t share number h e qu o t es/ lin k s (5 %)  is five
 than
carrier_provided crapware.

~~~
jedbrown
If_you own your phone,_T-mobile smartphone_plans_are $20/month_cheaper._That's
$480 over a_24-month contract, it_doesn't pay to get_the subsidized phone.
(Yeah,_unless_you get an N1, it's still a branded phone with some crapware,
but they will_unlock_it immediately_and_you_can change your plan at_any time.)

~~~
enjo
T-mobile, in my experience,_is on_the right side of almost everything in this
argument._Of_course they probably_have to be given their relative size
compared to the_other big players.

I gave up T-mobile_a couple of_years_ago_due to call quality_issues here in
Denver. I'm hoping they've_fixed it.

------
davidk0101
Does Siegler ever make any_points or does he always ramble on_like this? Is he
upset that people_are buying android based phones_or is_it that the carriers
are customizing_the os too_much and_google won't force_any strict guidelines?
That was the appeal_of android from_the beginning. Basically anyone could take
the_os_as a starting_point_and_do some_cool stuff with_it._The fact_that_the
carriers are using their monopoly to_force_certain conditions on their users
is not really_the fault of whoever_produced_the os which happens_to be google
in this case.

~~~
demallien
Where_does Seigler say that it was_Google's fault?_Let me_quote: "Maybe if
Google had their way, the system would be truly_open. But they don’t. Sadly,
they have_to deal with a_very big_roadblock:_the carriers."

At the_end_of the_day, Siegler understands that for end users,_it _doesn't
matter__whose fault the whole mess is,_all that matters is_that_users are once
more being herded into_operator-controlled ghettos, much as they were_pre-
iPhone.

~~~
greenlblue
He is saying google is_complicit_in_some kind of act he_finds distasteful so
google is partly to_blame. Is that_spelled out enough for you to see_why_I
said he is blaming google?

------
ZeroGravitas
The Android_2.2_Froyo marketshare number he quotes/links (5%)_is_five