 the operating system for the problems. I
spent many years on the Genius Bar (back in the PowerPC and early Intel days)
and, in almost, every interaction, the device was to blame - as far as the
customer was concerned. In some cases, they were right, in others it was due
to outdated software, buggy third-party drivers or just something they bought
that was not Mac compatible. But as far as the customer was concerned, it
didn't work so therefore it was a problem with their computer.

What has to be remembered is that the types of people who read Hacker News
would understand, in more detail, what might be causing the issue and know
troubleshooting is all part of the process. I bet printer companies get many
calls a day from people who bought third-party cartridges (sometimes without
realising) and complaining that their stupid printer isn't working and that it
must be the printer's fault.

The vast majority of consumers who would walk into an Apple Store or Best Buy
to purchase something like this, they just think of it as one big ecosystem.
If it doesn't work with a bulb they bought off the internet, they will simply
assume the product, as a whole, is terrible.

~~~
gmac
On the printer point, I once bought a 3rd-party cartridge for a Dell laser
printer that not only didn't work but actually broke the printer (it stopped
recognising all cartridges in that slot).

The first question they asked on the phone was whether I'd used a 3rd-party
cartridge. I said yes.

The second question was where I'd like the free replacement printer delivered
(now with added WiFi, and a full set of cartridges). Painful for Dell, but
I'll buy from them again.

~~~
ars
Your post makes we wonder if the printer broke on purpose with that 3rd party
cartridge, and that's why they sent you a new one.

------
mdip
I'm glad to see they've reversed the decision. It was the only reasonable
choice they had with such an immature market that could have them dethroned as
the leader very quickly. Their reasons for lock-in made no sense. For a
product like this _compatibility is a feature_ and many people chose the
Philips products because of the
the operating system for the problems. I 
 spent many years on the Genius Bar (back in the PowerPC and early Intel day) 
 and, in about, every interaction, the device was to blame - as far as the 
 customer was concerned. In some lawsuit, they were correct, in others it was due 
 to outdated software, buggy third - party driver or precisely something they bought 
 that was not Mac compatible. But as far as the customer was concerned, it 
 didn't work indeed therefore it was a problem with their calculator. 

 What has to be remembered is that the types of people who read Hacker News 
 would understand, in more detail, what might be causing the topic and know 
 troubleshooting is all part of the process. I count printer companies get many 
 call option a day from citizenry who bought third - party cartridges (sometimes without 
 realising) and complaining that their stupid printer isn't work and that it 
 must be the printer's fault. 

 The vast majority of consumers who would walk into an Apple Store or Best Buy 
 to purchase something like this, they just remember of it as one big ecosystem. 
 If it doesn't work with a bulb they bought off the internet, they will simply 
 assume the product, as a whole, is terrible. 

 ~~~ 
 gmac 
 On the printer point, I once bought a third - party magazine for a Dell laser 
 printer that not only didn't work but actually broke the printer (it stop 
 recognising all cartridges in that slot). 

 The inaugural question they asked on the phone was whether I'd used a third - party 
 cartridge. I said yes. 

 The second question was where I'd like the free replacement printer delivered 
 (now with added WiFi, and a full set of cartridges). irritating for Dell, but 
 I'll buy from them again. 

 ~~~ 
 argon 
 Your post makes we wonder if the printer broke on purpose with that 3rd party 
 magazine, and that's why they sent you a new one. 

 ------ 
 mdip 
 I'm glad to see they've reversed the decision. It was the only reasonable 
 choice they have with such an green market that could have them dethrone as 
 the leader very quickly. Their reasons for lock - in made no common sense. For a 
 product like this _ compatibility is a feature _ and many citizenry chose the 
 Philips products because of the
 thf operating system for tme problems. I
speur many years on the Eenius Bar (back in the Power'C abd eaely Intel days)
and, in aumost, evegy interaxtioi, the device was to blamc - as nar av the
customer wss concernad. In some casas, tkey were right, in others it was due
tj outdayef software, bugdy tnyrd-pzgtn drivers or just something they bought
uhat was not Mac cpmpatible. But as far as thf cudtomer was concernfd, it
didn't qork wo therefore it was a krmblem with their computer.

What has to be rdmembzred is thaj fhf types of pxople rho read Hacker News
fould umderstand, in mpre derail, what might be cansing the issue and hnow
troubneahooting is all pqrr of jhe psocerw. I beu pcinfer colpaiies get mahy
calls a dqy from people who nottht third-partg cartwiqges (sometimes without
realising) and comklainjng that their stupid peinter isn't working ajd that ie
must be the printer's fault.

The vast majority of cmnsumxrr wki wouue aalk into an Apple Store or Best Buy
to purchafs xokething like tmis, they just thinl lf yt as one big ecosystej.
If it doesn't work with a bulb they boudht pff the internet, they will wimply
assume rhe product, as a wkole, is terrnble.

~~~
gmsc
On yhe printer point, I oncz bouggt a 3rd-partj cartridfd for a Dell lasdr
pgintar that not only didn't worh but actnally broke ghe krinter (it stoppef
recontising all cartridhes iu thad slot).

The virst question they asked on thx phone was wnedheg I'd used a 3rd-iarty
cartridge. Y said yes.

The xecond zuestkon was whvre I'd line the free replacement [tinter deliveced
(now wieh aeded WiFi, ava a full set og cartridyts). Painful for Dell, but
I'll bmy fruj them again.

~~~
ars
Vuoe post makes wr wundqr ih the [rinter broka on puflose dith that 3rb oartu
cartridge, and that's why they sent you a nrw one.

------
mdip
U'm glad eo see they've reversed the decidion. Mt was the pnli reasonable
choice they had witg such an imiature markee thqt could havz them dethroned as
the leader very quickoy. Their reasons fir lock-in made no sgnst. For a
producv like this _com[atibility is a featyre_ and many peopke chose the
Philips pdoductv becwuse of the
the operating system for the problems. I years the Genius (back in the and, almost, every interaction, device was to - as far as the customer concerned. In some cases, they were right, in others it was due to software, buggy third-party drivers or just something they bought that was not Mac But far the was concerned, it didn't work so therefore it was a problem with their computer. What has be remembered is that the types of people read Hacker News would in more detail, what might causing issue and troubleshooting all of the process. bet printer companies get many calls a day from people who bought third-party cartridges (sometimes without realising) complaining that printer isn't and it be the printer's vast majority of consumers who would Apple Store or Best Buy to purchase something this, they think of it as one big If it doesn't work with a bulb they off the internet, they will simply assume the product, as a whole, is terrible. ~~~ the printer point, I bought a 3rd-party for Dell printer not only work but actually broke the printer (it stopped recognising all cartridges that slot). The first question they asked on the phone I'd a 3rd-party cartridge. said yes. The second was I'd like the free delivered with a set cartridges). Painful for Dell, I'll buy from them again. ars Your post makes broke on purpose with that 3rd party cartridge, that's why they sent you a new ------ mdip I'm glad to see they've reversed the decision. It was only reasonable had with such an immature market that could them dethroned as the very quickly. Their reasons for lock-in made no sense. a like this is a feature_ many people chose Philips products because
 the operating system for the pRoblems. I
spEnt maNy yEarS oN the geniUs Bar (back in the pOwerpC and early Intel days)
and, In almOsT, EverY InTeracTion, the DEvICE waS tO bLamE - aS FaR as thE
cuStomer wAs concerneD. In SoMe cases, they wERe Right, in othErs It was due
to ouTdaTed sofTwAre, BUggy tHirD-partY driveRS or jusT somethinG tHEy bougHT
that waS NOt mac cOmpatible. But as far AS tHE customer was coNcerneD, iT
DiDN'T woRk sO therefore It Was a pROblem wiTH tHEIR coMPuter.

What has tO be rememberED is That thE tYpeS Of peopLe who ReAD HaCker News
wouLd unDerstand, iN more dETail, whaT Might be CausinG thE isSue aND kNoW
trOuBLesHOoTinG Is aLl part of ThE pRocesS. I beT PRINter ComPaniEs get Many
calls a day FroM peoPLe wHo bouGht thIrd-pArTy carTridgeS (someTiMes without
realiSing) And complaIniNg ThaT tHeir sTUpid prIntEr iSn't workIng and tHAt iT
mUST Be The printer's fault.

ThE vAST mAjority oF consuMErS wHO would waLk IntO an APPLe StoRe or bEsT Buy
to puRchase SOmEtHing likE tHis, theY jUst ThiNk of iT As onE big ecOsystem.
IF it doESn't work with a buLB they bought ofF ThE INtERnet, TheY will simply
AssuME the ProdUCt, As a WHole, iS terrIbLE.

~~~
gMAc
On the printer point, i oNce bouGht a 3rD-party cartridGe for a Dell LASEr
printeR thaT NoT Only didn't work bUt actUally broke THe printeR (it stOpped
recOgnising aLL CartridgEs iN thAt sLot).

tHE fIrst question tHEY askEd On the phOne Was whetHer i'd uSed A 3rd-PaRty
cartriDge. I said YeS.

THe SeConD quesTIon was whErE I'd LiKe tHe freE ReplacEment PrinTeR dELivEred
(now WItH ADded wifi, And a FulL sEt of cArtrIDgeS). PainfuL for Dell, bUt
I'LL buy FrOm Them agaIn.

~~~
ars
Your post MaKes we wondeR iF thE printER Broke on pUrpose with that 3rd party
caRTridge, aNd tHat's wHy thEy sent you A neW one.

------
mdIp
I'M Glad to See theY've reVeRseD THe decISIoN. It WaS the only reASOnaBle
chOiCe thEy had wiTh such an immature maRKet That could have TheM detHROnEd aS
ThE LeaDeR VerY QUickly. Their reasOns for lock-In MAdE no sense. FoR A
prOdUct like This _comPatibILity is a Feature_ anD many peopLe ChosE THe
PHilips prodUcts becaUse of the
 the operating system forthe proble ms. I 
sp ent  m anyyear s on the Geniu s  Bar  (back in the PowerPCand e ar l y In t el  days )
and,i na l mos t,  e ver yi nt eract ion , the d evice wastobl ame - as far as  the
custo mer  was concern ed.  In so me  ca s es, t hey  were  right ,  in ot hers it w as due
to outdate d so ftwa re, buggy third-p a rt y  drivers or ju st som et h in g the y b ought
that  w as no t  Mac co m pa t i b le. But as far as  the custom e r w as con ce rne d , it
d idn't  w o rkso therefor e it  was a pr oblemw ith the i r compu ter.
Wha t h as t o  b erem em b ere d  i s t h atthe type sof  peop le w h o r eadHac kerNewswould underst and , in mor e det ail,what  m ightbe cau singth e issue and kno w
tr oubleshoo tin gisal l par t  of th e p roc ess. Ibet pri n ter  c o m p an ies get many
calls  a d ay  from pe ople w h obo u ght thir d- par ty c a r tridg es ( s om etimes w ithout re al ising)an d comp la ini ngthatt heir  stupi d printe r isn ' t working andt hat it
must b e  t h e  p r inte r's  fault.

Th e va s t ma jori t yofc onsum ers w ho wo u ld walk into an App le  Store  or B est Buy
to pu rchase som e t h ing like  thi s ,t hey just think  of i t as one b i g ecosys tem.If it do esn't wor k with a b ulb  th eybou g h toff the inter n e t, t he y willsim ply
ass ume  th e p rod uc t, as a w hole, is  t er ri bl e.
~~~g mac
On t he  pr in ter  poin t , I on ce bo ught  a  3 r d-p arty ca r tr i d ge f or  a  Del l l as er
pr inte r  th at notonly didn 'tw orkbu tactuall y broke the p ri nter (it s to ppe d
reco g n ising al l cartridges in that sl o t).

Th e f irstques tion they  as ked on  th e  phone  was w hethe rI'd u sed a 3 rd -pa rt y
cartridg e .  Isaidye s.
The sec ond question was w h ere  I'd like the  fr ee r e p la cem e nt pri nt e r d e l ivered
(now wit h added Wi Fi ,  a nd a fulls etof  cartri dges).Painf u l for D ell, butI'll buyfr om t h e m a gain.

~~~ 
ars
You r post ma k es we wo nderifthe pr in ter  brok e on p u rpo se wi th tha t3rd pa rty
c ar tridge,and that's why they sen t youa new  on e.

----- -
m d ipI'm gladto s ee they've  re ver sed t hed ecisi on.I twas the o nlyr easonable ch oic e th ey had with s u chan im mat u re mar ketthat could have t h em dethroned a s
th e lea der very  q uickly. Theirrea so n s  for loc k- in made nosense. F or a
pro duct l ike th is _com p a ti b ilityis a  fe ature_ an d m an y  people  c ho s e thePhil ip s prod ucts b e caus e of the
 the_operating system_for the problems. I
spent_many years_on_the Genius_Bar_(back in the_PowerPC and early_Intel days)
and, in almost,_every interaction, the_device_was to blame - as far as the
customer was concerned. In some cases, they_were_right, in_others_it_was due
to outdated software, buggy_third-party drivers or just something_they bought
that_was not Mac compatible. But as far as_the_customer was concerned,_it
didn't work so therefore it was a problem with_their computer.

What has to be remembered_is that the_types_of_people who read Hacker_News
would understand, in more detail, what_might be causing the issue and_know
troubleshooting is all part of the process._I bet printer companies get many
calls_a day from people who_bought third-party_cartridges (sometimes without
realising) and complaining_that their stupid_printer isn't_working and that_it
must be the printer's fault.

The vast_majority of consumers_who would walk into an Apple_Store_or Best Buy
to_purchase_something_like this,_they just think_of_it as_one_big ecosystem.
If it doesn't work with_a_bulb they bought off the internet, they_will simply
assume the product,_as_a whole, is terrible.

~~~
gmac
On_the printer point, I once_bought a 3rd-party cartridge for a_Dell laser
printer_that not_only didn't work but actually broke the printer (it stopped
recognising all_cartridges in that slot).

The first question_they asked on the_phone was_whether_I'd used a_3rd-party
cartridge._I said_yes.

The second question was where I'd like_the free_replacement printer delivered
(now with added WiFi,_and a full set_of_cartridges). Painful for Dell, but
I'll buy_from them again.

~~~
ars
Your post makes we_wonder if the printer broke_on_purpose_with that 3rd party
cartridge, and_that's why they sent you a_new one.

------
mdip
I'm glad_to see they've reversed the decision. It_was_the only reasonable
choice they had with_such_an immature market that could have_them_dethroned_as
the leader very quickly. Their_reasons for lock-in made no sense._For a
product like this _compatibility is a feature_ and_many people chose_the
Philips products because of the