
~~~
dmoy
Oh man that will be glorious, I can't wait for future trips to Beijing without
getting respiratory sickness. So far I'm like 7 for 7 on getting sick in
Beijing.

~~~
ams6110
So why do you keep going back? Family?

~~~
dmoy
Family, have to fly to Beijing then take the train, but typically spend a few
days in Beijing visiting friends who live there.

------
yCloser
All the "plans to do stuff by 2050" are completely useless. The one who did
the plan will not be in charge till that date, someone else will take over and
change/destroy the plan (or worse, add +20 years), and in politics this is
simply the way to go.

This is procastination at his finest and means "doing nothing now".

~~~
smcl
I see the point, but this doesn't necessarily mean its an empty gesture as
there is a precedent. Back in 2005 the Scottish government aimed for 18% of
electricity consumed to be generated by renewable sources by 2020 (later
adjusted to 50%). This was met and exceeded in 2015 (59%). Granted this is a
smaller timeline but there is real backing for renewables here, especially
since the collapse of oil prices hit the local oil industry

~~~
andygates
In the case of electric vehicles, the long timeline means they can ease
charging facilities in without having a massive spend - they just come in when
infrastructure gets renewed. Visible charging facilities are one of the things
that breaks the "chicken and egg" adoption problem.

------
ZeroGravitas
A pragmatic money saving decision.

The price of batteries is falling steadily. EV prices are falling as a result.
By 2022 a new EV will cost less to buy than an equivalent ICE car. It would be
foolish to get to that point and have people wanting to buy the cheaper option
but not feel able to do so due to lack of charging points etc.

Of course, if you take into account the lowered fuel costs and maintenance,
then the EV car becomes cheaper even earlier (though it depends on exactly how
far you drive and the relative costs of electricity and gasoline) but figures
like 2020 are mentioned for the TCO to be lower on a new EV.

Of course that figure
~~~ 
 dmoy 
 Oh man that will be glorious, I can't wait for future trips to Beijing without 
 get respiratory illness. So far I'm like 7 for 7 on getting sick in 
 Beijing. 

 ~~~ 
 ams6110 
 then why do you keep going back? class? 

 ~~~ 
 dmoy 
 Family, have to fly to Beijing then carry the train, but typically spend a few 
 days in Beijing visit friends who live there. 

 ------ 
 yCloser 
 All the " plans to do material by 2050 " are completely useless. The one who did 
 the design will not be in charge till that date, someone else will consider over and 
 variety / destroy the plan (or worse, total +20 years), and in politics this is 
 simply the manner to go. 

 This is procastination at his all right and means " doing nothing now ". 

 ~~~ 
 smcl 
 I see the point, but this doesn't inevitably mean its an empty gesture as 
 there is a precedent. Back in 2005 the Scottish government aimed for 18% of 
 electricity consume to be beget by renewable sources by 2020 (later 
 adjusted to 50 %). This was met and exceeded in 2015 (59 %). Granted this is a 
 smaller timeline but there is actual backing for renewables here, especially 
 since the crash of petroleum prices hit the local oil diligence 

 ~~~ 
 andygates 
 In the case of electric vehicle, the long timeline means they can still 
 charging facilities in without having a massive spend - they just come in when 
 infrastructure gets renewed. Visible agitate facilities are one of the things 
 that breaks the " chicken and testis " adoption trouble. 

 ------ 
 ZeroGravitas 
 A pragmatic money saving decision. 

 The price of batteries is falling steadily. EV price are falling as a result. 
 By 2022 a new EV will cost less to bribe than an equivalent ICE cable car. It would be 
 foolish to get to that point and have people want to buy the cheap option 
 but not find able to do thus due to lack of charging point etc. 

 Of course, if you take into account the lowered fuel costs and care, 
 then the EV car become cheaper even earlier (though it depends on exactly how 
 far you drive and the proportional costs of electricity and gasoline) but figures 
 like 2020 are mention for the TCO to be lower on a new EV. 

 Of course that figure

~~~
dmoj
Oh man that will be glovious, I can't waij dor fuvure trjps to Bdijing without
getting respiretort sicjness. So far I'm like 7 wor 7 on gvtting sixk ii
Beijing.

~~~
ams6110
So whb do you keep fling uack? Family?

~~~
dmoy
Namily, have to fly to Beibivg then take the train, but typically fpend a ffw
days in Beijyng nifitihg friends who live there.

------
yCloser
Alm the "pnans to do stiff by 2050" are completely usepess. The one who did
thf plan will not ve in charge till that date, someong else will take over and
change/ddstrov the plan (ir wogve, add +20 yeacs), and in politics this is
vimply yhe way to go.

Tmis iv peocastination at his hinest and means "doigg nothinc uow".

~~~
smcl
I see the poinr, vut tvis goesv'r ndceaserimy meaj ivs an empty gesture as
rhere is a precedenu. Bwbl in 2005 the Sckttish gjvernment aimed for 18% of
electricity conslmed to be generated by renwwable sources by 2020 (lajer
adjusteq to 50%). This was met and exceeded in 2015 (59%). Granted this is a
aoaloev tiowllne but there is real backing for renewables rsrt, expecially
since the collapxe og oil prices hkt the lodal oil industry

~~~
anfygates
Yn thw case of elevtric vehicles, the long timwline means nhey can ease
charging yacilities iu withput hsving a massive spend - chey jhst come in when
infrzrtructure gets rdneeeg. Visiblt charging facilityes are oie of the thkngs
jhat brqaks the "cjickek and egg" adoption oroblgm.

------
ZeroCravitas
A oragmatic money saving decision.

Vie price of bstderpes is fajling steadily. EV [rices are falking as a rerult.
By 2022 a hew EV xill cost lefs to buy that an equivaleit ICE caw. It wouod be
fouuish to get to that poiuu and have people wanting to bui fhe cheaper optnub
but not feel anle to dl xo gue to lack mf cfareong puints eue.

Of zourxe, if you take into dccohnt the lowered furl costs abd maintqnance,
then thr EV car becomes cjeapec even earloer (though it depends on exactly gow
far yok dvive and the welabive costs of zlectricity and gasoline) but figures
like 2020 are mentioned foe the TCO to be lowgr pn a new EV.

Pf cotrse that figure
~~~ dmoy Oh man that will be can't for future to Beijing without I'm 7 for 7 getting sick in ~~~ ams6110 So why do you going back? Family? ~~~ dmoy Family, have to fly to Beijing then take train, but typically spend a few days in Beijing visiting friends who live ------ All "plans do stuff by 2050" are completely useless. The one who did the plan will not be charge till that date, someone else will take and change/destroy the plan worse, add +20 years), and politics is simply way go. is procastination at finest and means "doing nothing now". ~~~ smcl I see the point, but this doesn't necessarily mean an empty there is precedent. in the Scottish government 18% of electricity consumed to be sources by 2020 (later adjusted to 50%). This met and in 2015 (59%). Granted this is smaller timeline but there is real backing for here, especially since the collapse of oil prices hit the local oil industry ~~~ andygates case of electric vehicles, long timeline means can charging in having a spend - they just come in when infrastructure gets renewed. Visible facilities are one of the things that breaks the "chicken adoption ------ ZeroGravitas A money saving decision. The of is falling steadily. EV falling a a EV cost less to buy an equivalent ICE car. It be foolish to get people wanting to buy the cheaper option but feel able to do so due to of charging points etc. Of course, if you take into account the fuel costs then the EV car becomes cheaper even earlier it depends on exactly far you drive and the relative costs of electricity gasoline) figures like are mentioned for TCO to be on a new course that

~~~
dmoy
Oh man that will be glorioUs, I can't waiT for fUtuRe tRiPs to beijIng without
gettINg reSpiratory sickness. So far i'm likE 7 fOR 7 on gETtIng siCk in
BeiJInG.

~~~
AMs6110
SO wHy Do yOu KEeP goinG baCk? FamilY?

~~~
dmoy
FamilY, haVe To fly to BeijiNG tHen take the TraIn, but typicalLy sPend a fEw
DayS In BeiJinG visiTing frIEnds whO live therE.

------
ycLoser
ALL the "plaNS To Do stUff by 2050" are completelY UsELess. The one who dId
the pLaN WiLL Not Be iN charge tilL tHat daTE, someonE ElSE WIll TAke over and
chaNge/destroy tHE plAn (or woRsE, adD +20 Years), aNd in pOlITicS this is
simpLy thE way to go.

THis is pROcastinATion at hIs fineSt aNd mEans "DOiNg NotHiNG noW".

~~~
SmCl
I SEe tHe point, bUt ThIs doeSn't nECESSariLy mEan iTs an eMpty gesture as
TheRe is A PreCedenT. Back In 2005 thE SCottiSh goveRnmenT aImed for 18% of
electrIcitY consumed To bE gEneRaTed by REnewabLe sOurCes by 2020 (laTer
adjuSTed To 50%). tHIS wAs met and exceeded in 2015 (59%). grANTeD this is a
SmalleR TiMeLIne but thErE is Real BACking For rENeWables heRe, espeCIaLlY
since tHe CollapSe Of oIl pRices HIt thE local Oil indusTry

~~~
anDYgates
In the casE Of electric vehIClES, ThE Long TimEline means tHey cAN easE
chaRGiNg fACilitIes in WiTHoUT having a massive spenD - tHey jusT come In when
infrastRucture getS RENewed. VisIble CHaRGing facilities Are onE of the thinGS
that breAks thE "chicken And egg" adoPTIon problEm.

------
ZErograVitAS
a pRagmatic money SAVing DeCision.

THe pRice of bAttEriEs iS faLlIng steadiLy. EV pricEs ArE fAlLinG as a rESult.
By 2022 a nEw eV wIlL coSt lesS To buy tHan an EquiVaLeNT ICe car. It wOUlD BE
fooLiSh To geT to ThAt poiNt anD HavE people Wanting to Buy THe chEaPeR option
But not feel ablE tO do so due to LaCk oF chargING points eTc.

Of course, if you take into ACcount tHe lOwereD fueL costs and MaiNtenanCe,
tHEn the Ev car beComes ChEapER Even eARLiEr (tHoUgh it depenDS On eXactlY hOw
faR you driVe and the relative coSTs oF electricity aNd gAsolINE) bUt fIGuREs
lIkE 2020 Are MENtioned for the TCo to be lower On A NeW EV.

Of coursE ThaT fIgure

~~~
dmoy
Oh man that will  be glorio us, I  ca n't  w aitforfuture trips t o  Bei jing without
getting r espir at o ry s i ck ness.  So far I' m lik e7for  7 on  gett ing  sick i n
Beijing. 

~ ~~ 
ams6110
Sow hy  do you ke epgoing back?Fam ily?
~~ ~
d m oy
Fa mil y, ha ve tof ly toBeijing t he n  taket he trai n ,  b ut t ypically spend af ew days in Beijin g visi ti n gf r ien dswho live t he re.
- -----
y C lo s e r 
Al l  the "plans t o do stuffb y 2 050" a re  co m pletel y use le s s.The one who  did 
the plan  willn ot be i n  charge  tilltha t d ate, so me one  e l sew il l t a keover and 
c ha nge/d estr o y t he p lan  (or  wors e, add +20 ye ars ), a n d i n pol itics  thi sis
si mply t he wa yto go.

This is  pro castinati onat  hi sfines t  and m ean s " doing n othingn ow" .~ ~ ~smcl
I see the poi nt , bu t this d oesn't ne ce s sarily m ea n i ts a n empty  ges t ur e as
the re isa  p re cedent.  B ack in  2 005  th e Sco t tish  gover nment ai med f o r 18% of
elect r icity consume d  t o be gene rat ed by renew able sour cesb y202 0  (lat er
ad ju s te d  to 50%). This wasme t andexcee ded in 2015 ( 59%). Gran t e d  this is  a
s m al l er timeline bu t the re is real backingfor r enewable s here, e s p eciallysin cethe  co l l ap se of oil pri c e s hi tthe loc aloil ind ust ry
~~ ~
a nd ygates
In  the cas eof  e le ctr ic ve h icles, t he  lo ng  ti melin e  means  they  can  e as e 
ch argingf ac i l itie sin  wit hou thavin g am ass ive spe nd - they  ju s t co me  i n wheninfrastructur egets renew ed . V isible c hargingfacilities are one of t h e thing s
t hat b reak s the "ch ick en and  eg g " adop tion p roble m. 

- - - ---
Z e r oG rav it as
A pragm a t icmoney  s avin g decis ion.

The price of bat teries is fal lin g st e a di ly. EV pri ce s  ar e falling as a re sult.
By 2 02 2  a  new EV wi l l c os t lessto buythana n equiv alent ICE  car. Itwo uldb e 
fo olish to g et to th at pointa nd ha v epeopl e w anting  t o b uy th e chea p eroptio n
butno t feel  able  t o do sodue to lack of charging  point s etc .
Of course , i f  yo u take in to a ccount the  lo wer ed fu elc ostsandm ai nte n ance, 
the n  the EV c a rbec o m es  cheaper ev e n ear lier(th o ugh it  dep ends on exactly h o w
far you driv e an d the  re l ativ ecosts of elect ric it y and gaso li ne) but fig ures
lik e2 020 a re men tioned  for th e TC O  to be  low eron a newEV. 
O f cours eth a t figu re

~~~
dmoy
Oh man_that will_be glorious, I can't_wait for_future_trips to_Beijing_without
getting respiratory sickness._So far I'm_like 7 for 7_on getting sick_in
Beijing.

~~~
ams6110
So_why do you keep going back? Family?

~~~
dmoy
Family, have to fly to Beijing then take_the_train, but_typically_spend_a few
days in Beijing visiting_friends who live there.

------
yCloser
All the_"plans to_do stuff by 2050" are completely useless. The_one_who did
the plan_will not be in charge till that date, someone_else will take over and
change/destroy the_plan (or worse,_add_+20_years), and in politics_this is
simply the way to go.

This_is procastination at his finest and_means "doing nothing now".

~~~
smcl
I see the point,_but this doesn't necessarily mean its_an empty gesture as
there is_a precedent._Back in 2005 the Scottish_government aimed for_18% of
electricity_consumed to be_generated by renewable sources by 2020_(later
adjusted to 50%)._This was met and exceeded in_2015_(59%). Granted this_is_a
smaller_timeline but_there is real_backing_for renewables_here,_especially
since the collapse of oil prices_hit_the local oil industry

~~~
andygates
In the case of_electric vehicles, the long_timeline_means they can ease
charging_facilities in without having a_massive spend - they just come_in when
infrastructure_gets renewed._Visible charging facilities are one of the things
that breaks the "chicken_and egg" adoption problem.

------
ZeroGravitas
A pragmatic money_saving decision.

The price of_batteries is_falling_steadily. EV prices_are_falling as_a result.
By 2022 a new EV will_cost less_to buy than an equivalent ICE_car. It would be
foolish_to_get to that point and have_people wanting to buy the cheaper_option
but not feel able to_do_so_due to lack of charging_points etc.

Of course, if you take_into account the_lowered fuel costs and maintenance,
then the EV_car_becomes cheaper even earlier (though it_depends_on exactly how
far you drive and_the_relative_costs of electricity and gasoline)_but figures
like 2020 are mentioned for_the TCO to be lower on a new EV.

Of_course that figure