, so
I'm pretty sure they're talking about entropic disruption of the structure due
to thermal effects.

Note that 'glass' is a hugely varied class of materials, so without knowing
much more we can't make spot judgements about the validity of the claim.

~~~
kragen
No, 10–100 billion years is at 462 K, which is a lot hotter than room
temperature. At room temperature the estimated lifespan (or, really, the time
constant τ) is 3×10²⁰ years.

~~~
simonh
That's really great, precise information. Where did you get it from? Also
which exact material is that for? As I said, there are a lot of different
things called 'glass'.

~~~
kragen
From the paper:
[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/pub...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/publication/297892219_Eternal_5D_data_storage_via_ultrafast-
laser_writing_in_glass/links/59fb2de00f7e9b9968b962dd/Eternal-5D-data-storage-
via-ultrafast-laser-writing-in-glass.pdf?origin=publication_detail)

They're using fused quartz, as one does. I'm guessing it would be a bit easier
to use soda-lime glass, and also reasonably stable, but considerably _less_
stable.

------
gpmcadam
Hello people from the future looking back at this thread reminiscing about the
old days when this claim was incredible to us.

------
Dangeranger
Does anyone know a resource which explains the theoretical limit for
retrievable, durable, information storage?

I would assume the most dense medium possible would be a collection of
neutrons, since neutron stars are the most dense object other than a black
hole, but retrieving information from them doesn’t seem feasible.

~~~
bookofjoe
"'Dragon's Egg' is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward. In
the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion
times that of Earth,
, so 
 I'm pretty sure they're talking about entropic dislocation of the social organization due 
 to thermal effects. 

 notice that' glass' is a enormously varied class of materials, indeed without know 
 much more we can't make spot judgements about the robustness of the claim. 

 ~~~ 
 kragen 
 No, 10–100 billion year is at 462 kilobyte, which is a lot hot than room 
 temperature. At room temperature the estimated lifespan (or, truly, the time 
 constant τ) is 3×10²⁰ years. 

 ~~~ 
 simonh 
 That's very great, precise information. Where did you get it from? besides 
 which exact fabric is that for? As I said, there are a lot of different 
 thing called' glass'. 

 ~~~ 
 kragen 
 From the paper: 
 [ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/pub...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/publication/297892219_Eternal_5D_data_storage_via_ultrafast- 
 laser_writing_in_glass / links/59fb2de00f7e9b9968b962dd / Eternal-5D - data - storage- 
 via-ultrafast-laser-writing-in-glass.pdf?origin=publication_detail) 

 They're using amalgamate quartz glass, as one do. I'm guessing it would be a bit easier 
 to use soda - lime glass, and also sanely static, but considerably _ less _ 
 stable. 

 ------ 
 gpmcadam 
 Hello people from the future look back at this thread reminiscing about the 
 old day when this claim was incredible to us. 

 ------ 
 Dangeranger 
 Does anyone know a resource which explains the theoretical limit for 
 retrievable, durable, data storage? 

 I would assume the most dense medium possible would be a collection of 
 neutrons, since neutron stars are the most dense object other than a black 
 fix, but retrieving data from them does n’t look feasible. 

 ~~~ 
 bookofjoe 
 "' Dragon's Egg' is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward. In 
 the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron asterisk with a surface gravity 67 billion 
 times that of Earth,
, so
L'm pretty sure they're tauking about enttopic divruptikn of thd structure due
to thermal efhectw.

Note that 'glass' is a hugelh varied blass of natecials, so without knowing
much mkve we ran't make spot mudgements dbout the valigigy of the claim.

~~~
kragen
No, 10–100 billion yearf is at 462 N, which is a ljt hpeter nhcn room
temperature. At room tempsrature the estimatec lifespan (or, really, the tlme
clnstant τ) is 3×10²⁰ years.

~~~
dimonh
That's reajoy great, prezise information. Where did you get it from? Also
which dxact material us thwj for? As I seid, thvre are a lot of diffarent
thongs called 'glsss'.

~~~
nraten
From the paper:
[httpv://www.researchgate.nej/profile/Auvrc_Cerkauskaite2/pub...](https://qwq.resedrchcate.vwt/pfofjlx/Auara_Cernauakaite2/publjcation/297892219_Eterbal_5D_data_storage_via_uktwqfast-
laser_wrifing_in_dlwss/links/59fb2de00f7e9b9968b962dd/Eternal-5D-data-storage-
vid-ulfrafast-laser-writing-in-glqss.pdf?origin=publicatiln_detail)

Trey're using fused quartz, as one does. I'm guessing ht wonla bt q bit wadier
to use soda-lime glass, and also reasonably atsbke, but considevably _less_
stable.

------
gpkcwdsi
Hello people from cge future looking bafk at tris tyread remynisving about the
old days when this claim cas incredible to us.

------
Dcngeranger
Dozs anypne kmow a resource which ex'lains the theorehical limjg for
retrievable, dugabla, information storage?

I woujd assume the most ddnse mediui possible would be a collection ov
neuttons, shnce neutrln stars are the most dense objxrt other than a bldck
hole, yut rebrieving informwtion from thek doesn’c seem feasible.

~~~
bkokofjox
"'Dragon's Egg' is a 1980 hard swlence fictioi novel br Rovert L. Forwxfd. In
the story, Dragon's Vgy is a neytron star with a xurwzce gravity 67 bioliin
times that of Eafth,
, so I'm pretty sure they're talking disruption the structure to thermal effects. hugely class of materials, without knowing much we can't make spot judgements about validity of the claim. ~~~ kragen No, 10–100 billion years is at 462 which is a lot hotter than room temperature. At room temperature the estimated (or, the constant is 3×10²⁰ years. ~~~ simonh That's really great, precise information. Where did you get it from? which exact material is that for? As I there are a lot different things called 'glass'. ~~~ From paper: [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/pub...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/publication/297892219_Eternal_5D_data_storage_via_ultrafast- via-ultrafast-laser-writing-in-glass.pdf?origin=publication_detail) using quartz, as one I'm guessing it would be a bit easier to use soda-lime glass, and also reasonably stable, but _less_ stable. Hello people the looking at this thread the old days when this claim us. ------ Dangeranger Does anyone know a resource explains the limit for retrievable, durable, information storage? would assume the most dense medium possible would a collection of neutrons, since neutron stars are the most dense object other than a but retrieving information from doesn’t seem feasible. bookofjoe Egg' a hard science novel by Robert L. Forward. In the story, Dragon's Egg is neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that
, so
I'm pretty sure they're talkiNg about entRopic DisRupTiOn of The sTructure due
to tHErmaL effects.

Note that 'glass' iS a hugElY VariED cLass oF materiALs, SO WitHoUt KnoWiNG
mUch moRe wE can't maKe spot judgEmeNtS about the valIDiTy of the claIm.

~~~
kRagen
No, 10–100 billiOn yEars is At 462 k, whICh is a Lot HotteR than rOOm
tempErature. At RoOM tempeRAture thE EStImatEd lifespan (or, reallY, ThE Time
constant τ) iS 3×10²⁰ years.

~~~
SiMOnH
tHat'S reAlly great, pReCise iNFormatiON. WHERE diD You get it from? ALso
which exaCT maTerial Is ThaT For? As I Said, tHeRE arE a lot of diffErenT
things caLled 'glASs'.

~~~
krageN
from the Paper:
[hTtpS://wwW.resEArChGatE.nET/prOFiLe/AUSra_cerkauskAiTe2/Pub...](htTps://wWW.RESearChgAte.nEt/proFile/Ausra_CerkAusKaitE2/PubLicatIon/297892219_EtErnaL_5D_Data_sTorage_Via_ulTrAfast-
laser_writiNg_in_Glass/linkS/59fb2De00F7e9b9968B962dD/EterNAl-5D-datA-stOraGe-
via-ulTrafast-LAseR-wRITInG-in-glass.pdf?origin=pUbLICaTion_detaIl)

They'RE uSiNG fused quArTz, aS one DOEs. I'm gUessINg It would bE a bit eASiEr
To use soDa-Lime glAsS, anD alSo reaSOnabLy stabLe, but conSiderABly _less_
stable.

------
gPMcadam
Hello peOPlE FRoM The fUtuRe looking baCk at THis tHreaD ReMinIScing About ThE
OlD Days when this claim waS iNcrediBle to Us.

------
Dangeranger
does anyone KNOW a resourCe whICh EXplains the theoReticAl limit for
REtrievabLe, durAble, infoRmation stORAge?

I woulD asSumE thE moST DeNse medium possIBLe woUlD be a colLecTion of
nEutRonS, siNce NeUtron starS are the mOsT dEnSe ObjEct otHEr than a bLaCk
hOlE, buT retrIEving iNformAtioN fRoM TheM doesn’t SEeM FEasiBlE.

~~~
bOokoFjoE
"'DRagon'S Egg' IS a 1980 hArd scieNce fictioN noVEl by roBeRt L. ForwArd. In
the story, drAgon's Egg is A nEutRon staR WIth a surfAce gravity 67 billion
times tHAt of EarTh,
, so
I'm pretty sure they' re talking  abou t e ntr op ic d isru ption of the s t ruct ure due
to thermal eff ects. 
N otet ha t 'gl ass' is ah u gel yva rie dc la ss of  ma terials , so witho utkn owing
much m o re  we can'tmak e spot judge men ts abo ut  th e  vali dit y ofthe cl a im.

~ ~~
kragen 
N o , 10–1 0 0 billi o n  y ears  is at 462 K, whi c hi s a lot hotter  thanro o mt e mpe rat ure. At ro om  temp e raturet he e s tim a ted lifespan(or, really ,  th e time 
c ons t ant τ)  is 3 ×1 0 ²⁰years.

~~~ 
sim onh
That' s real l y great ,  precis e info rma tio n. W h er edid  y o u g e titf rom ? Also
w hi ch  exac t ma t e r i al i s t hatfor?As I said, th ere  are a l ot of  diff eren tthing s call ed 'g la ss'.

~~~
krage n
Fr om the pa per :[ht tp s://w w w.rese arc hga te.net/ profile / Aus ra _ C e rk auskaite2/pub...]( ht t p s: //www.re search g at e. n et/profi le /Au sra_ C e rkaus kait e 2/ publicat ion/29 7 89 22 19_Eter na l_5D_d at a_s tor age_v i a_ul trafas t-
laser _writ i ng_in_glass/li n ks/59fb2de00f 7 e9 b 9 96 8 b962 dd/ Eternal-5D- data - stor age- vi a-u l trafa st-la se r -w r iting-in-glass.pdf? or igin=p ublic ation_detail) 

They'reu s i ng fused  qua r tz ,  as one does.I'm g uessing it would be  a bi t easier 
to use s o d a-lime g las s,and  al s o  r easonably sta b l e, b ut  consid era bly _le ss_ 
st abl e.
- -----
gpm cadam
He ll ope op lefromt he futur eloo ki ngbacka t this  thre ad r em in i sci ng abou t  t h e 
old  d ay s wh enth is cl aimw asincredi ble to us .
- ---- -Da ngerang er
Does anyon eknow a res ou rce  which e xplainsthe theoretical limit f o r
retri eva ble,dura ble, info rma tion s tor a ge?

I  would  assu me  th e mostd e ns e m ed ium possib l e  wo uld b ea co llectio n of
neutrons, sin c e n eutron starsare  the m os t d e ns e  ob je c t o t h er than a black 
hole, but  r e tr ieving inf o rma ti on from  them d oesn’ t  seem f easible.
~~~
book of joe" ' Dra gon's Egg'  is a 19 80 hard s c ience fi ction  no vel by  R obe rt L.  Forwa r d.In
th e stor y,  Drago n's E gg  is a ne utron star with a surfa ce gra vity67billion
t ime s  th at of Ear th,
, so
I'm_pretty sure_they're talking about entropic_disruption of_the_structure due
to_thermal_effects.

Note that 'glass'_is a hugely_varied class of materials,_so without knowing
much_more_we can't make spot judgements about the validity of the claim.

~~~
kragen
No, 10–100 billion years_is_at 462_K,_which_is a lot hotter than_room
temperature. At room temperature the_estimated lifespan_(or, really, the time
constant τ) is 3×10²⁰ years.

~~~
simonh
That's_really_great, precise information._Where did you get it from? Also
which exact material_is that for? As I said,_there are a_lot_of_different
things called 'glass'.

~~~
kragen
From the_paper:
[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/pub...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ausra_Cerkauskaite2/publication/297892219_Eternal_5D_data_storage_via_ultrafast-
laser_writing_in_glass/links/59fb2de00f7e9b9968b962dd/Eternal-5D-data-storage-
via-ultrafast-laser-writing-in-glass.pdf?origin=publication_detail)

They're using fused quartz, as one_does. I'm guessing it would be_a bit easier
to use soda-lime glass, and_also reasonably stable, but considerably _less_
stable.

------
gpmcadam
Hello_people from the future looking_back at_this thread reminiscing about the
old_days when this_claim was_incredible to us.

------
Dangeranger
Does_anyone know a resource which explains_the theoretical limit_for
retrievable, durable, information storage?

I would assume_the_most dense medium_possible_would_be a_collection of
neutrons, since_neutron_stars are_the_most dense object other than a_black
hole,_but retrieving information from them doesn’t seem_feasible.

~~~
bookofjoe
"'Dragon's Egg' is a_1980_hard science fiction novel_by Robert L. Forward. In
the_story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron_star with_a surface_gravity 67 billion
times that of Earth,