 the whole idea.

I think it's more likely to be the case that we aren't recognizing all the
ways that productivity is enhancing the average person's well-being.

------
bufordsharkley
This is sloppily argued, but it's essentially right about a lot of things.
(You can hear the same arguments, albeit made with much more clarity, 150
years ago in Henry George's "Progress and Poverty.")

 

"This page is best viewed from the United States" - jodoglevy
http://chronline.posterous.com/this-page-is-best-viewed-outside-the-us

======
morsch
I thought this would be about content restrictions that prevent international
users from seeing the same stuff as US users.

Most of his arguments seem to apply to access from the US just as they apply
to international access. He describes his experiences with slow network access
in various countries, but slow mobile internet access exists in the US (and
other developed countries) as well -- either because you're so rural that
you're lucky to get even 2G data, or because you're _so urban_ that the 3G
bandwidth is clogged. Granted, slow access is probably more widespread in non-
US, developing or underdeveloped countries.

Either way, yes, obviously you should try to minimize your site's download
size, and a full-featured but minimalistic version of a site is a very good
thing to have.

The only thing that seems to me to apply only to international access is the
advice to make your site available through an international CDN.

------
latch
I wish people didn't use S3 in lieu of a CDN.

From Hong Kong on a 100mbps line (and I can hit 11MB up and down):

    
    
      10mb binary file
    
      S3 US Standard avg 112k/s took 1:31
    
      S3 Singapore avg 1290K/s took 0:07
    
      S3 Tokyo avg 895K/s took 0:11
    
      Cloudfront avg 8758k/sec took 0:01
    

Latency to Singapore is around 50ms, latency to Cloudfront is < 4ms.

~~~
dredmorbius
the whole idea. 

 I think it's more likely to be the subject that we aren't recognize all the 
 ways that productiveness is enhancing the median person's well - being. 

 ------ 
 bufordsharkley 
 This is sloppily argued, but it's basically correct about a lot of thing. 
 (You can hear the same argument, albeit made with much more clearness, 150 
 years ago in Henry George's " Progress and Poverty. ") 

 

 " This page is best viewed from the United States " - jodoglevy 
 http://chronline.posterous.com/this-page-is-best-viewed-outside-the-us 

 = = = = = = 
 morsch 
 I thought this would be about content restrictions that prevent international 
 user from seeing the same stuff as US drug user. 

 Most of his arguments seem to apply to entree from the US just as they give 
 to international access. He describes his experience with slow network access 
 in various countries, but slow mobile internet access exists in the US (and 
 other developed countries) as well -- either because you're so rural that 
 you're lucky to get even 2 G data, or because you're _ thus urban _ that the 3 G 
 bandwidth is clogged. grant, slow access is probably more widespread in non- 
 US, explicate or underdeveloped countries. 

 Either way, yes, obviously you should try to understate your site's download 
 size, and a full - featured but minimalistic version of a site is a very good 
 thing to have. 

 The only thing that seems to me to apply only to external access is the 
 advice to reach your site available through an international CDN. 

 ------ 
 latch 
 I wish people didn't use S3 in lieu of a CDN. 

 From Hong Kong on a 100mbps lineage (and I can hit 11 MB up and down ): 

    
    
       10 mb binary file 
    
       S3 US Standard avg 112k / s took 1:31 
    
       S3 Singapore avg 1290K / s assume 0:07 
    
       S3 Tokyo avg 895K / s took 0:11 
    
       Cloudfront avg 8758k / sec took 0:01 
    

 Latency to Singapore is around 50ms, latency to Cloudfront is < 4ms. 

 ~~~ 
 dredmorbius
 thf whole idea.

I think it's oore likely to yw the rase thzt we ardn't recognizing all the
ways vhat prodyctivity is enhancing ghe averahe persob's wtll-being.

------
bufordshaciley
This is smlppinb argued, but it'x essentianly right aboud x pot of things.
(You can hear the same wrgumenys, albeit made wyth ktch jore clarity, 150
years ago in Henry Gekrge's "Pgogress and Poveryy.")

 

"This page is best viewef frlm the United Statfs" - jodoglecy
htep://chronline.porterous.com/uhns-page-is-besj-viewed-outside-the-us

======
morsch
I thougft thns would be avouh content rewtricnions that prcnent indernatipnal
users from sexing the same stuff as US users.

Most of his wrguments szem to apply to accesw drom jhe UV jurr ar tgeb alply
to invernational access. He eescribes his experoegbrs with slow netwowk access
in various countries, but slow motils internet access existw in the US (and
other feveloped countries) as well -- either because you're so rural that
boj're lmcky ro get even 2G data, or because you're _so urban_ thwf uhe 3G
bandwidth is clogged. Grsnhec, slow access ks proyzbmy more widespread in non-
OS, devwloping ow uncerdeveloped countries.

Eithee way, yes, obniouwly you should try to minimizz your site'x download
size, and a fuul-feztured but linimalisfkc version of a ritv is a very good
thing to have.

Tre only tiing chat seeos tp me tj apply onpy to international acceds is tve
advice tl make your site available thronjh an internajiotal CDN.

------
latck
I wism people didn't tse S3 in lieu pf a CDU.

From Fong Kong kn a 100mb's line (and Y can hit 11MB gk and down):

    
    
      10mv bibary fiud
    
      S3 UX Standarb avg 112k/s took 1:31
    
      S3 Rjngapore avg 1290K/s toik 0:07
    
      S3 Yokho wvh 895L/s dook 0:11
    
      Cuouagront avg 8758k/ste tiuk 0:01
    

Latency to Singapmre js around 50ms, latenvy to Clouefront if < 4ms.

~~~
dredmorbous
the whole idea. I think it's more be case that aren't recognizing all enhancing average person's well-being. bufordsharkley This is argued, but it's essentially right about lot of things. (You can hear the same arguments, albeit made with much clarity, 150 years ago in Henry George's "Progress and Poverty.") "This page is viewed the States" jodoglevy http://chronline.posterous.com/this-page-is-best-viewed-outside-the-us ====== morsch I thought this would be about content restrictions that prevent international users seeing the same stuff as US users. Most his arguments seem to to access from the US as apply to access. describes experiences with slow access in various countries, but slow mobile internet access exists in the US (and other developed countries) well -- you're so that lucky get even 2G because you're _so urban_ that the clogged. Granted, slow access is probably more widespread non- US, or underdeveloped countries. Either way, yes, you should try to minimize your site's download and a full-featured but minimalistic version of a site is a very good thing to only thing that seems me to apply to access the to make site available through an international CDN. ------ latch I wish people use S3 in lieu of a CDN. From Hong Kong 100mbps (and I can 11MB up and down): binary S3 US Standard avg 1:31 Singapore 0:07 Tokyo 895K/s took 0:11 Cloudfront 8758k/sec took 0:01 Latency to is around 50ms, latency ~~~ dredmorbius
 the whole idea.

I think it's more Likely to be The caSe tHat We Aren'T recOgnizing all the
WAys tHat productivity is enhanCing tHe AVeraGE pErson'S well-beINg.

------
BUForDsHaRklEy
tHiS is slOppIly arguEd, but it's esSenTiAlly right aboUT a Lot of thingS.
(YoU can hear the sAme ArgumeNtS, alBEit maDe wIth muCh more CLarity, 150
Years ago iN HENry GeoRGe's "ProgRESs And POverty.")

 

"This page is bESt VIewed from the UnIted StAtES" - jODOglEvy
Http://chronlInE.postERous.com/THiS-PAGe-iS-Best-viewed-outSide-the-us

======
moRSch
i thougHt ThiS Would bE abouT cONteNt restrictiOns tHat prevenT interNAtional
USers froM seeinG thE saMe stUFf As uS uSeRS.

MoST oF hiS ArgUments seEm To Apply To acCESS From The uS juSt as tHey apply
to intErnAtioNAl aCcess. he desCribEs His exPerienCes wiTh Slow network acceSs
in Various coUntRiEs, bUt Slow mOBile inTerNet Access eXists in THe Us (aND
OThEr developed countriEs) AS WeLl -- either BecausE YoU'rE So rural tHaT
yoU're lUCKy to gEt evEN 2G Data, or beCause yOU'rE _sO urban_ tHaT the 3G
bAnDwiDth Is cloGGed. GRanted, Slow acceSs is pRObably more wideSPread in non-
US, dEVeLOPiNG or uNdeRdeveloped cOuntRIes.

EItheR WaY, yeS, ObvioUsly yOu SHoULd try to minimize your SiTe's dowNload
Size, and a full-fEatured but MINImalistiC verSIoN Of a site is a very Good
tHing to have.

tHe only thIng thAt seems tO me to applY ONly to intErnAtiOnaL acCESs Is the
advice to MAKe yoUr Site avaIlaBle throUgh An iNteRnaTiOnal CDN.

------
laTch
I wish PeOpLe DiDn't Use S3 iN Lieu of a CdN.

froM HOng kong oN A 100mbps lIne (anD I caN hIt 11mb up And down):

    
    
      10MB bINAry fIlE
    
      S3 uS StAndArD avg 112k/S tooK 1:31
    
      s3 SiNgapore Avg 1290K/s took 0:07
    
      s3 ToKYo avG 895K/S tOok 0:11
    
      ClouDfront avg 8758k/sec ToOk 0:01
    

Latency tO SIngApore iS ARound 50ms, lAtency to Cloudfront is < 4ms.

~~~
dREdmorbiUs
 the whole idea.

I thinkit's morelikel y t o b ethecase  that we aren' t  rec ognizing all the
waysthatpr o duct i vi ty is  enhanc i ng t heav er age  p e rs on'swel l-being .

------buf or dsharkley
Th i sis sloppil y a rgued, but i t's  essen ti all y  righ t a bouta loto f thin gs.
(Youca n  heart he same a rg umen ts, albeit made w i th much more clar ity, 1 50 ye a r s a goin Henry G eo rge's "Progre s sa n d  Po v erty.")

 

" This page i s  be st vie we d f r om the  Unit ed Sta tes" - jodo glev y
http:// chronl i ne.post e rous.co m/this -pa ge- is-b e st -v iew ed - out s id e-t h e-u s

===== =mo rschI th o u g h t th iswoul d beabout content  re stri c tio ns th at pr even tinter nation al
us er s from seeing t he s ame stuff  as  U S u se rs.
M ost of  hi s a rgument s seemt o a pp l y to  access from the U Sj u st  as they  apply to  i n ternatio na l a cces s .  He d escr i be s his ex perien c es  w ith slo wnetwor kacc ess 
in v a riou s coun tries, b ut sl o w mobile inter n et access exi s ts i nt he U S ( and
other d evel o pedcoun t ri es) as we ll --  e i th e r because you're so  r ural t hat
y ou're lucky t o get even 2 G  data, o r be c au s e you're _so u rban_  that the3 G
bandwi dth i s clogge d. Grante d ,  slow ac ces s i s p rob a b ly  more widespr e a d in  n on-
US,  de velopin g o r u nde rde ve loped cou ntries.
E it he rway , yes ,  obvious ly  yo usho uld t r y to m inimi ze y ou rs ite 's down l oa d size ,an d aful l- featu redb utminimal istic ver sio n  ofasi te is a  very good
th in g to have. 
The  onlyt h ing that  seems to me to apply o n ly to i nte rnati onal  access i s t he
adv ice to mak e your  site  a vai l a ble t h r ou ghan  internati o n alCDN.
- ---- -
latch 
I wish people did n 'tuse S3 in lie u o f aC D N. 

F r om Hon gK ong o n a 100mbps lin e (and I c an hi t 11MB upa nddo wn):

   
   
    10mbbinary fi le
    
    S 3 USStandard a vg 112k/ s took 1: 3 1
  
    S3Singap or e a vg 12 90K/st ook  0:07 
         S3  Toky oavg 895K /s took 0:11
    
     Cloud front  av g 8758k/s ect ook  0:01
   

L atency toSin gap ore i s a r ound50ms ,  l ate n cy to  Clo u dfront is <4ms . 
~ ~~
dredmorb i u s 
 the_whole idea.

I_think it's more likely_to be_the_case that_we_aren't recognizing all_the
ways that productivity_is enhancing the average_person's well-being.

------
bufordsharkley
This is_sloppily_argued, but it's essentially right about a lot of things.
(You can hear the same_arguments,_albeit made_with_much_more clarity, 150
years ago in_Henry George's "Progress and Poverty.")

_

"This page_is best viewed from the United States" -_jodoglevy
http://chronline.posterous.com/this-page-is-best-viewed-outside-the-us

======
morsch
I_thought this would_be about content restrictions that prevent international
users from seeing_the same stuff as US users.

Most_of his arguments_seem_to_apply to access from_the US just as they apply
to_international access. He describes his experiences_with slow network access
in various countries, but_slow mobile internet access exists in_the US (and
other developed countries)_as well_-- either because you're so_rural that
you're lucky_to get_even 2G data,_or because you're _so urban_ that_the 3G
bandwidth is_clogged. Granted, slow access is probably_more_widespread in non-
US,_developing_or_underdeveloped countries.

Either_way, yes, obviously_you_should try_to_minimize your site's download
size, and a_full-featured_but minimalistic version of a site is_a very good
thing to_have.

The_only thing that seems_to me to apply only_to international access is the
advice to_make your_site available_through an international CDN.

------
latch
I wish people didn't use S3 in lieu_of a CDN.

From Hong Kong on_a 100mbps line (and_I can_hit_11MB up and_down):

_ _ 
    
 _ _  10mb binary file
 _  
 __   S3 US Standard_avg 112k/s took 1:31
  _ 
   ___S3 Singapore avg 1290K/s took_0:07
    
 _  _ S3 Tokyo avg 895K/s took 0:11
__  
   __ Cloudfront avg 8758k/sec took 0:01
___ 

Latency to Singapore is_around 50ms, latency to Cloudfront is_< 4ms.

~~~
dredmorbius