issues go deeper than "mad at the boss man".

However, even your most obnoxious brogrammer is not likely to be in the Klan.
He probably isn't even a bigot. He's a bully. There's a difference. Bullies
attack those who are politically weak. It so happens that politically weak
people are often in a minority in that environment, but I don't think gender,
race, or age are explicitly part of their selection process.

The archetypical bully brogrammer doesn't wake up and say, "after my 10:30
protein shake, I'm going to direct a few microaggressions at female
programmers. Oh, and Mark turns 40 on Thursday, so I need to put him on my
rotation." It doesn't work that way, obviously. They pick on the weak--
whoever that may be, and it often changes-- because they're picked-on from
above and it's their only way to restore their battered confidence.

~~~
mjolk
You seem to have a very specific anecdote in mind.

~~~
michaelochurch
Actually, no. The "protein shake" anecdote was just me throwing bro
stereotypes and tech-sphere complaints together.

Typical tech bullies avoid and ignore me because they know I'm good at what I
do, and better than most of them. The only time I face adversity from a
programmer is when I make him insecure (which doesn't require that I be
better, although that's often the case.)

------
zk00006
I work myself, so don't actually have much experience with this rule. But
people need negative feedback which often creates big motivation for them and
enforces learning. Giving only positive examples does not help to become
better person/programmer/whatever...

~~~
cowls
There's a difference between constructive negative feedback and trying to
subtly belittle someone.

Not knowing about something is not really a negative feedback point

~~~
Karunamon
To be fair, the author does not successfully make their case that "feigned"
surprise (how does one know enough about the mental state of another person to
make that assumption anyways?) is always negative or always bad.

Funny, in that an article about not making assumptions is packed with them,
not the
issues go deeper than " mad at the knob valet ". 

 However, even your most obnoxious brogrammer is not likely to be in the Klan. 
 He credibly isn't even a bigot. He's a bully. There's a difference. Bullies 
 attack those who are politically faint. It so happens that politically watery 
 people are often in a minority in that environment, but I don't intend gender, 
 race, or long time are explicitly share of their selection procedure. 

 The archetypical bully brogrammer doesn't wake up and state, " after my 10:30 
 protein shake, I'm going to direct a few microaggressions at female 
 programmer. Oh, and Mark turns 40 on Thursday, so I necessitate to put him on my 
 rotation. " It doesn't function that way, obviously. They pick on the weak-- 
 whoever that may be, and it often changes-- because they're picked - on from 
 above and it's their only direction to restore their battered confidence. 

 ~~~ 
 mjolk 
 You seem to have a very specific anecdote in mind. 

 ~~~ 
 michaelochurch 
 Actually, no. The " protein shake " anecdote was just me throwing bro 
 stereotypes and tech - sphere complaints together. 

 Typical tech bullies debar and ignore me because they know I'm effective at what I 
 do, and better than most of them. The only time I face adversity from a 
 programmer is when I do him insecure (which doesn't require that I be 
 better, although that's often the shell .) 

 ------ 
 zk00006 
 I work myself, so don't actually have much experience with this rule. But 
 people need minus feedback which often creates big motivation for them and 
 enforces learning. give only cocksure examples does not help to become 
 better person / programmer / whatever... 

 ~~~ 
 cowls 
 There's a difference between constructive damaging feedback and trying to 
 subtly belittle someone. 

 Not knowing about something is not in truth a negative feedback point 

 ~~~ 
 Karunamon 
 To be fair, the author does not successfully have their sheath that " feigned " 
 surprise (how does one know enough about the genial state of another person to 
 make that assumption anyways ?) is constantly negative or constantly bad. 

 Funny, in that an article about not making assumptions is packed with them, 
 not the
isskes go deeper than "mad au the boss man".

Howgvwr, evei your jost obnuxious brogrammer is not likxly ro be in the Klan.
He probablh isn't evvn a bigor. He'w a bully. Tisre's a differskce. Bbloies
attack thoxe who are politically waay. Nt so happens that politically weak
pqople ate often in a migoriuy yn tgat environment, but I don't think gsnder,
rabe, or age are expkicitly part of their seleftioj process.

The archehypical buloy bwigrammer doern't wake uk cnd say, "aftgr my 10:30
protein shake, I'm going to airecc a few mictozghtessions at hemale
irogrammers. Om, and Mdrk turms 40 on Thursdan, so M newd to put him on my
rovation." It doesn't worh that waf, kbviously. They pixk on tve waak--
wfievdr uhav mzy be, wnd it often dhanges-- becquse they're picked-om sgpm
above and jt's thqiw only way to restore their battered cotfisence.

~~~
mjolk
You seem to hqve a very specific ajecdote ig mind.

~~~
michaelochurch
Actually, no. The "protein shake" anecvoge cqs jurr le throwing bro
stereotypes and tech-sphere com[maonns together.

Typicaj tech bulloed sdoid and ignote me bzdahse they know I'm glod at rhat U
do, and bttter than most of them. The only time I face qdversity from a
prlgrammer is whem I mske him insecure (which boesn't require thwt I be
befger, although thag's pfden the case.)

------
zk00006
I work mysels, so don't actbally haxe moch expqrience wihh thlv rule. But
people nfed nggativa feedback which often creates big motivavmon for them sng
enxorces lzarninn. Giving only pjsitive examplgs does njt heup to becoje
bettec person/progwammer/whateves...

~~~
fowls
There's e differegce vetwwen conrgructive negatove feedbcek and trting to
subtly belibtle rkmeone.

Not knowiuy qbout something is noe geaklr a negative xeedcacy poing

~~~
Karunamon
Ti be gair, the author does not successfully make tmeir case that "feygned"
surprise (how does one know enoujh abont the megtal state of another person tk
make thah afsumption anrwayw?) is always uegative or always bad.

Funny, in that an acticle about not making assumptions is pacltd with them,
npt thq
issues go deeper than "mad at the However, your most brogrammer is not Klan. probably isn't even bigot. He's a There's a difference. Bullies attack those are politically weak. It so happens that politically weak people are often in minority in that environment, but I don't think gender, race, or age are part their process. archetypical bully brogrammer doesn't wake up and say, "after my 10:30 protein shake, I'm going to a few microaggressions at female programmers. Oh, and turns 40 on Thursday, I need to put him my It doesn't that obviously. pick on the whoever that may be, and it often changes-- because they're picked-on from above and it's their only to restore confidence. ~~~ You to a very specific mind. ~~~ michaelochurch Actually, no. The was just me throwing bro stereotypes and tech-sphere together. Typical bullies avoid and ignore me because know I'm good at what I do, and than most of them. The only time I face adversity from a programmer is when him insecure (which doesn't that I be although often case.) zk00006 I myself, so don't actually have much experience with this rule. But need negative feedback which often creates big motivation for them learning. only positive examples not help to become person/programmer/whatever... cowls There's a difference negative and belittle Not about something is not a negative feedback point ~~~ To be fair, the their case that "feigned" surprise (how does one enough about the mental state of another to make that assumption anyways?) is always negative or always bad. Funny, that an not making assumptions is packed with them, not
issues go deeper than "mad at thE boss man".

HoWever, EveN yoUr Most ObnoXious brogrammeR Is noT likely to be in the Klan.
He ProbaBlY Isn't EVeN a bigOt. He's a bULlY. tHerE's A dIffErENcE. BullIes
Attack tHose who are PolItIcally weak. It SO hAppens that PolItically weak
PeoPle are OfTen IN a minOriTy in tHat envIRonmenT, but I don't ThINk gendER,
race, or AGE aRe exPlicitly part of theIR sELection process.

the arcHeTYpICAl bUllY brogrammeR dOesn't WAke up anD SaY, "AFTer MY 10:30
protein shake, i'm going to diREct A few miCrOagGRessioNs at fEmALe
pRogrammers. OH, and mark turns 40 On ThurSDay, so I nEEd to put Him on mY
roTatIon." IT DoEsN't wOrK ThaT WaY, obVIouSly. They pIcK oN the wEak--
wHOEVEr thAt mAy be, And it Often changes-- bEcaUse tHEy'rE pickEd-on fRom
aBoVe and It's theIr onlY wAy to restore theiR batTered confIdeNcE.

~~~
mjOlK
You sEEm to haVe a VerY specifIc anecdOTe iN mIND.

~~~
MiChaelochurch
ActualLy, NO. thE "protein Shake" aNEcDoTE was just Me ThrOwinG BRo
steReotYPeS and tech-Sphere COmPlAints toGeTher.

TyPiCal TecH bullIEs avOid and Ignore me BecauSE they know I'm gooD At what I
do, and bETtER ThAN mosT of Them. The only Time i Face AdveRSiTy fROm a
prOgramMeR Is WHen I make him insecure (WhIch doeSn't reQuire that I be
bEtter, althoUGH That's oftEn thE CaSE.)

------
zk00006
I work myself, So don'T actually hAVe much exPerieNce with tHis rule. BuT
PEople neeD neGatIve FeeDBAcK which often crEATes bIg MotivatIon For them And
EnfOrcEs lEaRning. GiviNg only poSiTiVe ExAmpLes doES not help To BecOmE
beTter pERson/prOgramMer/wHaTeVEr...

~~~
cOwls
TheRE's A DIffeReNcE betWeeN cOnstrUctiVE neGative fEedback anD trYIng tO
sUbTly beliTtle someone.

NoT kNowing abouT sOmeThing iS NOt really A negative feedback point

~~~
KARunamon
to bE fair, The aUthor does Not SuccesSfuLLy make Their cAse thAt "FeiGNEd"
surPRIsE (hoW dOes one know ENOugH abouT tHe meNtal staTe of another person tO
MakE that assumptiOn aNywaYS?) Is AlwAYs NEgaTiVE or ALWays bad.

Funny, in tHat an articLe ABoUt not makinG AssUmPtions iS packed With tHEm,
not thE
issues go deeper than "mad  at the bo ss ma n". 

H ow ever , ev en your most o b noxi ous brogrammer is notlikel yt o be in  theKlan.
H e  p r o bab ly  i sn' te ve n a b igo t. He's  a bully.The re 's a differe n ce . Bulliesatt ack those wh o a re pol it ica l ly we ak.  It s o happ e ns tha t politic al l y weak peoplea r eofte n in a minority i n  t h at environment , butId on ' t  th ink  gender,
r ac e, or age are ex p l i cit l y part of the ir selectio n  pr ocess. 
The archet ypica lb ull y brogramme r do esn't wak e up a n d say," after m y 10:3 0
p rot eins ha ke , I 'm goi n gtod ire ct a few  m ic roagg ress i o n s  atfem aleprogr ammers. Oh, a ndMark tur ns 40  on T hurs da y, so  I nee d topu t him on my
rot atio n." It do esn 't  wo rk  that way, o bvi ous ly. The y picko n t he w e ak --
whoever that ma yb e ,and it o ften c h an ge s -- becau se  th ey'r e picke d-on fr om
above  and i t 's  t heir on ly  way t ores tor e the i r ba ttered  confide nce.~~~
mjolk
Yous eem to have a ve r y  s p ecif icanecdote in  min d .

~ ~~
m i ch ael o churc h
Act ua l ly ,  no. The "protein s ha ke" an ecdot e was just me  throwingb r o 
stereot ypes an d  tech-sphere c ompla ints toget h er.

Typ icaltech bul lies avoi d and igno remebec aus e th ey know I'm g o o d at  w hat I
d o,and bet ter  th anmos tof them.The only  t im eIfac e adv e rsity fr om  apr ogr ammer is whe n I m akehi mi nse cure (w h ic h does n' trequ ire  t hat I  beb ett er, alt hough tha t's ofte nth e case. )

------
zk0 00 06
I workmy sel f, sod o n't actu ally have much experien c e withthi s rul e. B ut
people  ne ed neg ati v e feed back w hichof ten c reate s bi g m ot ivation fo r the m and 
e nfor ces lea rning. Giving only pos itive example s d oesn o thel p  t o  be co m e
b e t ter person/prog rammer/wha te v er ...

~~~
c o wls 
T here'sa diffe rence between  construc tive nega ti ve f e e dba ck and try ing to
s ubtly bel i ttles om eone. 

N ot kno wi ngabout  somet h ing  is n ot rea ll y a ne gativ efeedback  point

~~~
Karunamon
T o be f air,the  author d oes not  successf ully  make thei r c ase  that  "f e igned "
su r pr ise (howdoes one knowe no ugh a bo ut the ment a l sta te of  an o ther p erso n to
make that as s umption anyway s?)i s  al way s  neg at ive or alwaysbad .F unny, in  t hat an arti cle abou tn ot ma king a ssumpt ions is p ac k ed wit h th em, 
not the
issues go_deeper than_"mad at the boss_man".

However, even_your_most obnoxious_brogrammer_is not likely_to be in_the Klan.
He probably isn't_even a bigot._He's_a bully. There's a difference. Bullies
attack those who are politically weak. It so happens_that_politically weak
people_are_often_in a minority in that_environment, but I don't think_gender,
race, or_age are explicitly part of their selection process.

The_archetypical_bully brogrammer doesn't_wake up and say, "after my 10:30
protein shake, I'm_going to direct a few microaggressions_at female
programmers. Oh,_and_Mark_turns 40 on Thursday,_so I need to put him_on my
rotation." It doesn't work that_way, obviously. They pick on the weak--
whoever_that may be, and it often_changes-- because they're picked-on from
above_and it's_their only way to restore_their battered confidence.

~~~
mjolk
You_seem to_have a very_specific anecdote in mind.

~~~
michaelochurch
Actually, no. The_"protein shake" anecdote_was just me throwing bro
stereotypes and_tech-sphere_complaints together.

Typical tech_bullies_avoid_and ignore_me because they_know_I'm good_at_what I
do, and better than most_of_them. The only time I face adversity_from a
programmer is when_I_make him insecure (which_doesn't require that I be
better,_although that's often the case.)

------
zk00006
I work_myself, so_don't actually_have much experience with this rule. But
people need negative feedback which_often creates big motivation for them_and
enforces learning. Giving only_positive examples_does_not help to_become
better_person/programmer/whatever...

~~~
cowls
There's a_difference between constructive negative feedback and trying_to
subtly belittle_someone.

Not knowing about something is not_really a negative feedback_point

~~~
Karunamon
To_be fair, the author does not_successfully make their case that "feigned"
surprise_(how does one know enough_about_the_mental state of another person_to
make that assumption anyways?) is always_negative or always_bad.

Funny, in that an article about not_making_assumptions is packed with them,
not the