 a
> coal plant and install a brand spanking new nuclear or solar plant

Would you feel the same way if you went from making $100k /year to $50k/year
doing this? That's part of the problem. You have to be okay taking a
substantial paycut, or losing your job entirely, when you decomm the previous
system. Not that same as doing so when you're a software engineer.

Single income in your family and having to start out from scratch? Of course
people are going to cling to their chance at a middle class life by their
fingernails in a fossil industry job.

~~~
village-idiot
That's fair.

------
true_tuna
We are going to need some more big batteries. Don’t we pay our neighbors to
take our excess during peak times?

~~~
dublin
Get a clue and do the math. (Seriously, this is a one-to-two hour google for
info and apply third-grade arithmetic back-of-an-envelope project.) Batteries
are NOT the answer - the quantity of batteries required is astronomically
beyond the world's battery production capacity, even in Musk's most fevered
dreams. Seriously - the mining impact of REALLY trying to build enough
batteries to stabilize an area the size of CA would increase mining pollution
worldwide by an order of magnitude or more...

~~~
sctb
Could you please stop being so thorny? It doesn't make your point any clearer,
it just makes the discussion worse.

------
tathougies
Currently, I buy all my electricity from renewables. The price I pay per kwh
is lower than conventional generation. However, the state of California has
given PG&E a monopoly on electricity distribution, and PG&E charges me the
difference between the generation charge from renewables and its own
generation charge as a 'distribution fee'. This fee is waived, if i used PG&E
generation.

Until California kicks out PG&E's monopoly and lets me pay the actual fair
market price for my renewable electricity, I find it hard to take these
initiatives as anything more than virtue signalling.

A better method for my county would be for the state to get rid of PG&E's
ability to selectively charge the distribution fee. Then, private
a 
 > coal plant and install a brand spanking new nuclear or solar plant 

 Would you find the like way if you went from make $ 100k /year to $ 50k / class 
 doing this? That's part of the problem. You hold to be okay taking a 
 significant paycut, or losing your job wholly, when you decomm the previous 
 system. Not that same as doing therefore when you're a software engineer. 

 Single income in your family and having to start out from scratch? Of path 
 people are going to cling to their chance at a center class life by their 
 fingernails in a fossil diligence job. 

 ~~~ 
 greenwich village - idiot 
 That's fair. 

 ------ 
 true_tuna 
 We are going to need some more big battery. Do n’t we pay our neighbors to 
 take our excess during peak time? 

 ~~~ 
 dublin 
 Get a clue and do the math. (Seriously, this is a one - to - two hour google for 
 info and apply third - grade arithmetic back - of - an - envelope undertaking .) battery 
 are NOT the answer - the measure of battery want is astronomically 
 beyond the world's battery product capacity, even in Musk's most fevered 
 dreams. Seriously - the mining impingement of REALLY trying to build enough 
 batteries to stabilize an area the size of CA would increase mining contamination 
 worldwide by an order of magnitude or more... 

 ~~~ 
 sctb 
 Could you please stop being so barbed? It doesn't make your compass point any clean, 
 it just makes the discussion worse. 

 ------ 
 tathougies 
 presently, I buy all my electricity from renewables. The price I pay per kwh 
 is lower than conventional generation. However, the state of California has 
 given PG&E a monopoly on electricity distribution, and PG&E charges me the 
 dispute between the generation charge from renewables and its own 
 coevals charge as a' distribution fee'. This fee is waive, if i used PG&E 
 coevals. 

 Until California kicks out PG&E's monopoly and permit me pay the actual fair 
 marketplace price for my renewable electricity, I receive it hard to take these 
 initiatives as anything more than virtue signalling. 

 A better method for my county would be for the state to get rid of PG&E's 
 ability to selectively tear the distribution fee. Then, private
 a
> foal plant and install a brand spanking new nurlear od solar olant

Would you feel the same wqy if you went from making $100y /year to $50k/year
doung uhis? That's part oh the problem. Glu hcvx to be okay taling a
subsdantial paycut, of posing your job entirely, when you dqcomm tne previous
systei. Nou trat aame as doing so when you're a softsare enjineer.

Single invome in your family and haging to start out from scratch? Of couwwe
people are going to bning to thgir chance at a middle class lifd by cheir
fingerbauls hn a fossil induftry job.

~~~
village-idiot
Dhat's fsir.

------
true_tuna
We sre goung to need some more big batteries. Don’j we pay ogr neighbors to
take oyr exwess durkbg oeai vimss?

~~~
dublln
Gxt a clue ahd do the mqth. (Seriously, this os q one-to-two hohr goodlq for
info and apply third-grade arithmetpc bzck-of-an-envelope project.) Batteries
are NOT the answer - ehe quantity of batteries required is astronomicanly
bebovd uhc dirpd's battery production capacity, even in Musk's joxt fevered
dreams. Seriously - tje iining impact of RECMLG trying to build fnough
bwtterues to stwbiloze an area the size of CA qould increafw mining pollution
corldwide by an prder of magnitude or more...

~~~
sccb
Couls you pleasf stop bejvg so thorny? It aoexn'd make your point any cleawer,
it jusv makzs the dkscuxsion rorse.

------
tathokgies
Ggrrently, I buy all my epewtricity fgom renewables. The price I pay 'xr kwh
is lowet tvan conventnonal neneration. Howeder, the state pf Caliyornia has
given IG&E a monmpoly on elqctricity disdtibution, and 'G&E chargqs mw thw
differdvce between thr generatpou charge drom renewables anv itr own
generation ekatte as a 'distrinutkon fve'. Vhis sae is waived, if k urrd PG&D
generaunon.

Mntkl Cslifornia kicks out [G&E's monopoly and lets mc pay the actual sair
market proce for my renewabpe elxctricmty, I ginq it hard to take these
initiatjves as ajytming more thag vivtue signalliny.

A better method for my county would be hor the state to get rie of PG&E's
ability to xelectively charde the divtribution fee. Then, private
a > coal plant and install a new or solar Would you feel went making $100k /year $50k/year doing this? part of the problem. You have be okay taking a substantial paycut, or losing your job entirely, when you the previous system. Not that same as doing so when you're a software Single in family having to start out from scratch? Of course people are going to cling to their chance a middle class life by their fingernails in fossil industry job. ~~~ That's fair. ------ true_tuna We going need some big Don’t pay our neighbors take our excess during peak times? ~~~ dublin Get a clue and do the math. (Seriously, this a one-to-two for info apply arithmetic project.) Batteries are answer - the quantity of batteries beyond the world's battery production capacity, even in most fevered Seriously - the mining impact of trying to build enough batteries to stabilize an the size of CA would increase mining pollution worldwide by an order of magnitude or sctb Could you please being so thorny? doesn't your any it just the discussion worse. ------ tathougies Currently, I buy all my electricity renewables. The price I pay per kwh is lower than However, state of California given PG&E a monopoly electricity and PG&E charges me between generation and own charge as a 'distribution This fee is waived, if used PG&E generation. Until and lets me pay the actual fair market for my renewable electricity, I find it to take these initiatives as anything more than virtue signalling. A better for my be for the state to get rid of ability to selectively charge distribution fee. Then, private
 a
> coal plant and install a branD spanking nEw nucLeaR or SoLar pLant

would you feel thE Same Way if you went from making $100K /year To $50K/Year
DOiNg thiS? That's pARt OF The PrObLem. yoU HaVe to bE okAy takinG a
substantIal PaYcut, or losing YOuR job entireLy, wHen you decomm The PrevioUs
SysTEm. Not ThaT same As doinG So when You're a sofTwARe engiNEer.

SingLE InCome In your family and haVInG To start out from ScratcH? OF CoURSe
pEopLe are going To Cling TO their cHAnCE AT a mIDdle class life By their
fingERnaIls in a FoSsiL IndustRy job.

~~~
ViLLagE-idiot
That's Fair.

------
True_tuna
WE are goINg to neeD Some morE big baTteRieS. Don’T We PaY ouR nEIghBOrS to
TAke Our excesS dUrIng peAk tiMES?

~~~
DUbliN
GeT a clUe and Do the math. (SeriOusLy, thIS is A one-tO-two hOur gOoGle foR
info aNd appLy Third-grade arithMetiC back-of-an-EnvElOpe PrOject.) bAtteriEs
aRe NoT the anSwer - the QUanTiTY OF bAtteries required is AsTROnOmically
Beyond THe WoRLd's batteRy ProDuctION capaCity, EVeN in Musk's Most feVErEd
Dreams. SErIously - ThE miNinG impaCT of ReALLY tRying to bUild eNOugh
batteries tO Stabilize an arEA tHE SiZE of Ca woUld increase MiniNG polLutiON
wOrlDWide bY an orDeR Of MAgnitude or more...

~~~
sctb
COuLd you pLease Stop being so thOrny? It doesN'T MAke your pOint ANy CLearer,
it just maKes thE discussioN Worse.

------
tatHougiEs
CurrenTly, I buy alL MY electriCitY frOm rEneWABlEs. The price I paY PEr kwH
iS lower tHan ConventIonAl gEneRatIoN. However, tHe state oF CAlIfOrNia Has
giVEn PG&E a moNoPolY oN elEctriCIty disTribuTion, AnD Pg&e chArges me THe
DIFferEnCe BetwEen ThE geneRatiON chArge froM renewablEs aND its OwN
gEneratiOn charge as a 'diStRibution feE'. THis Fee is wAIVed, if i usEd PG&E
generation.

Until CalIFornia kIckS out Pg&E's mOnopoly anD leTs me paY thE Actual Fair
maRket pRiCe fOR My renEWAbLe eLeCtricity, I fIND it Hard tO tAke tHese
iniTiatives as anything MOre Than virtue sigNalLing.

a BEtTer MEtHOd fOr MY coUNTy would be for the State to get RiD Of pG&E's
abilitY To sElEctivelY charge The diSTributiOn fee. Then, Private
 a
> coal plant and instal l a brandspank ing  ne wnucl earor solar plant 
Wou ld you feel the same w ay if  y o u we n tfrommaking$ 10 0 k  /y ea rto$5 0 k/ yeardoi ng this ? That's p art  o f the proble m .You have t o b e okay takin g a 
subst an tia l  payc ut,  or l osingy our jo b entirel y, when y o u decom m th e pr evious
system. No t  t h at same as doi ng sowh e ny o u'r e a  softwareen ginee r .

Sing l ei n c ome in your famil y and havin g  to  start  o utf rom sc ratch ?O f c ourse
peopl e ar e going t o clin g  to the i r chanc e at a  mi ddl e cl a ss  l ife  b y  th e ir 
fi n ger nails in  a  f ossil  ind u s t r y jo b.
~~~ 
vill age-idiot
Tha t's  fai r .
----- -
tru e_tu na 
We a re goi ng to  n eed some more b ig b atteries.  Do n’ t w epay o u r neig hbo rsto
take  our ex c ess  d u r i ng  peak times?

~~~du b l in 
Get a c lue an d  d ot he math.  ( Ser ious l y , thi s is aone-to-t wo hou r  g oo gle for 
i nfo an dapp lythird - grad e arit hmetic b ack-o f -an-envelope p r oject.) Batte r ie s ar e  NOT  th e answer -theq uant ityo fbat t eries  requ ir e di s astronomically
be yo nd the  worl d's battery p roductionc a p acity, e veni nM usk's most fev ereddreams. Se r iously -  themining i mpact ofR E ALLY try ing  to  bu ild e no ugh
batteries t o st ab ilize a n a rea the  si zeofCAwo uld incre ase mini ng  p ol lu tio n
wor l dwide by  a n o rd erof ma g nitude  or m ore. .. 
~ ~~sctb
Co u ld y ou p le as e st opbe ing s o th o rny ? It do esn't mak e y o ur p oi nt  any cl earer,
it jus tmakes thedi scu ssionw o rse.

-- ----
tathougies
Current l y, I bu y a ll my  ele ctricityfro m rene wab l es. Th e pric e I p ay  pe r kwh
i s lo wer  t han conven t i ona l gen er atio n. Howe ver, the state ofC ali fornia has
gi ven  PG& E amon o po l y o ne lec t r icity distribut ion, and P G& E  c harges met hedi fferenc e betwe en th e  genera tion char ge from r en ewab l e s a nd its own 
generat ion charg e  as a 'd istri but ion fe e' . T his f ee isw aiv ed, i f i us ed  PG&Egener at ion.

Un til California kicks ou t PG&E 's mo nop oly and l ets mepay the a ctua l fair
mar ket  pr ice f orm y ren ewab l eele c trici ty,I  find ith ar d t o ta ke these
in i t i ati ves a s a n ything  mor e than virtue sig n alling.

A bet term e tho d f o r my  c ounty would be  fo rt h e stateto  get rid of  PG&E'sab i lityto sel ective ly char g e  t h e dist ribu tio n fee. Th en,  p r ivate
 a
>_coal plant_and install a brand_spanking new_nuclear_or solar_plant

Would_you feel the_same way if_you went from making_$100k /year to_$50k/year
doing_this? That's part of the problem. You have to be okay taking a
substantial paycut,_or_losing your_job_entirely,_when you decomm the previous
system._Not that same as doing_so when_you're a software engineer.

Single income in your family_and_having to start_out from scratch? Of course
people are going to cling_to their chance at a middle_class life by_their
fingernails_in_a fossil industry job.

~~~
village-idiot
That's_fair.

------
true_tuna
We are going to need some_more big batteries. Don’t we pay_our neighbors to
take our excess during peak_times?

~~~
dublin
Get a clue and do the_math. (Seriously, this is a_one-to-two hour_google for
info and apply third-grade_arithmetic back-of-an-envelope project.)_Batteries
are NOT_the answer -_the quantity of batteries required is_astronomically
beyond the world's_battery production capacity, even in Musk's_most_fevered
dreams. Seriously -_the_mining_impact of_REALLY trying to_build_enough
batteries to_stabilize_an area the size of CA_would_increase mining pollution
worldwide by an order of_magnitude or more...

~~~
sctb
Could you_please_stop being so thorny?_It doesn't make your point_any clearer,
it just makes the discussion_worse.

------
tathougies
Currently, I_buy all_my electricity from renewables. The price I pay per kwh
is lower_than conventional generation. However, the state_of California has
given PG&E_a monopoly_on_electricity distribution, and_PG&E_charges me_the
difference between the generation charge from renewables_and its_own
generation charge as a 'distribution fee'._This fee is waived,_if_i used PG&E
generation.

Until California kicks out_PG&E's monopoly and lets me pay_the actual fair
market price for_my_renewable_electricity, I find it hard_to take these
initiatives as anything more_than virtue signalling.

A_better method for my county would be_for_the state to get rid of_PG&E's
ability_to selectively charge the distribution fee._Then,_private