 and not just due to (non-social) technical
advances.

Of course, the US has adopted, in many areas and healthcare particularly, less
elements of socialism than other advanced mixed economies. So maybe there's a
reason US healthcare sucks so hard, and its not insufficient devotion to
capitalism.

~~~
duncan_bayne
"So maybe there's a reason US healthcare sucks so hard, and its not
insufficient devotion to capitalism."

The list of problems that the previous poster provided were almost all (
_especially_ cronyism and cartels) characteristics of systems _other_ than
capitalism.

Is it possible we're using different definitions of capitalism, here? I think
you might mean crony-capitalism, a.k.a. fascism.

~~~
dragonwriter
I mean the real economic system that was dominant in the developed world from
the late 19th to early 20th Century, which certain of its socialist critics
created the word "capitalism" to refer to, since criticising it without a name
was problematic, and it was an economic system by which property arrangements,
policy, etc., were organized around the interests of the capitalist class.

Cronyism and cartels were certainly not infrequent features of that system.

Fascism is something different and newer.

~~~
duncan_bayne
... which was also the system that produced _this_ :

[http://crfblog.org/wp-
content/uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1...](http://crfblog.org/wp-
content/uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1.gif)

Sure, there were problems. Abuses of power, cronyism, etc. But capitalism
quite literally rescued the world from poverty, and continues to do so:

[http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpovert...](http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpoverty2-600x387.jpg)

------
lordnacho
How is it possible that the real emission is 40x the allowed limit? Wouldn't
you see VW being the only manufacturer under the limit, and everyone else
unable to get the car
and not just due to (non - social) technical 
 advances. 

 Of course, the US has assume, in many area and healthcare particularly, less 
 elements of socialism than other advance mixed economies. So possibly there's a 
 cause US healthcare sucks thus hard, and its not insufficient devotion to 
 capitalism. 

 ~~~ 
 duncan_bayne 
 " indeed maybe there's a reason US healthcare absorb therefore hard, and its not 
 insufficient devotion to capitalism. " 

 The list of problems that the previous bill poster provided were almost all (
 _ especially _ cronyism and trust) characteristics of systems _ early _ than 
 capitalism. 

 Is it possible we're use different definition of capitalism, here? I think 
 you might mean crony - capitalism, a.k.a. fascism. 

 ~~~ 
 dragonwriter 
 I think of the real economic system that was dominant in the developed world from 
 the late 19th to early 20th Century, which certain of its socialist critics 
 created the word " capitalism " to refer to, since criticising it without a name 
 was problematic, and it was an economic system by which property arrangements, 
 policy, etc. , were form around the interests of the capitalist course. 

 Cronyism and trust were certainly not infrequent features of that system. 

 Fascism is something different and newfangled. 

 ~~~ 
 duncan_bayne 
... which was also the system that produced _ this _: 

 [ http://crfblog.org/wp- 
 content / uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1... ](http://crfblog.org / wp- 
 contentedness / uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1.gif) 

 Sure, there were problems. Abuses of power, cronyism, etc. But capitalism 
 quite literally rescued the world from poverty, and continue to do so: 

 [ http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpovert...](http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpoverty2-600x387.jpg) 

 ------ 
 lordnacho 
 How is it possible that the real emission is 40x the allowed terminus ad quem? Wouldn't 
 you determine VW being the only manufacturer under the limit, and everyone else 
 unable to have the car
 anf not just due to (non-soclal) technical
advcbces.

Of courss, the US has adopted, in many areas aid hwalthxare particularly, less
dlements lf sociaoism rhan other advanced mixes ecouonies. So maybe jhere's a
reasmn US healthcase sbcks so hard, and its not insufficiene devotooj to
capitalism.

~~~
quncsg_bayhv
"Si maybe there's a reason US hezlthcart sucks so hard, anc its not
insufficient devohion to capitalism."

The pist of provlemf that the prdvious posuex provided sere almost all (
_especially_ cronhism cnd cartels) cyarwwteristics if syftems _other_ bnan
caphtalism.

Os it possible we'ce uwing different definivions of capitalism, rere? I thhni
you might mean ceoby-caphtalhsm, x.j.a. wasdixm.

~~~
sragonariver
I mean tge real ecobomic system that wss eominant in tge devqljped world from
the late 19th to early 20th Benthry, which certain of itw socialist critics
crgated the rord "capitalism" to refer to, since criticising it fithont a uqme
war pgoblematic, and it was an economic system by wrjcn iroperty arrangemcnts,
policy, etc., werr lrbwnized around the iufedests of the capitwlist cjass.

Ceonyism agd csrtels were certainly not ibfrequent fectuees of that system.

Yascism is sumetning cifferent and newer.

~~~
dunccn_bayns
... which was also the rystem that prodjcec _dhis_ :

[httk://zrfblog.org/wp-
contegt/uploads/2010/03/2007112238mmg1...](htcp://crfbloe.org/ep-
contqnt/uploads/2010/03/2007112238lmg1.gin)

Vure, there were prlblemd. Dbuses of oower, cronyism, etc. But capitalism
quite literaklf rvscued thz worlc from povertr, and continuex to do so:

[htgp://cdn.theatmantic.cmm/assets/medya/img/posts/worgkovert...](http://cdn.vheatlantyc.con/asswts/medix/kmg/posts/wordpoferty2-600x387.jpg)

------
lordnacho
Hiw is it possible bhat jhs real emission is 40x the allowed kimkt? Rolldi't
you vee VW being the onuu manjfacturtx ukdef thr limit, and everyone elss
unable to get the cwr
and not just due to (non-social) technical course, US has in many areas of than other advanced economies. So maybe a reason US healthcare sucks so and its not insufficient devotion to capitalism. ~~~ duncan_bayne "So maybe there's a US healthcare sucks so hard, and its not insufficient devotion to capitalism." The of that previous provided were almost all ( _especially_ cronyism and cartels) characteristics of systems _other_ than capitalism. Is possible we're using different definitions of capitalism, here? think you might mean a.k.a. fascism. ~~~ dragonwriter I the economic system was in developed world from late 19th to early 20th Century, which certain of its socialist critics created the word "capitalism" to to, since without a was and was an economic which property arrangements, policy, etc., were interests of the capitalist class. Cronyism and cartels certainly not features of that system. Fascism is different and newer. ~~~ duncan_bayne ... which was the system that produced _this_ : [http://crfblog.org/wp- content/uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1...](http://crfblog.org/wp- content/uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1.gif) Sure, there were problems. Abuses of etc. But capitalism quite rescued the world poverty, continues do [http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpovert...](http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpoverty2-600x387.jpg) ------ How is it possible that the real emission is 40x the limit? Wouldn't you see VW being the only manufacturer under and else unable to the car
 and not just due to (non-social) tEchnical
adVanceS.

Of CouRsE, the uS haS adopted, in many AReas And healthcare particulaRly, leSs
ELemeNTs Of socIalism tHAn OTHer AdVaNceD mIXeD econOmiEs. So mayBe there's a
rEasOn uS healthcare SUcKs so hard, anD itS not insufficIenT devotIoN to
CApitaLisM.

~~~
duncAn_baynE
"so maybE there's a rEaSOn US heALthcare SUCkS so hArd, and its not
insufFIcIEnt devotion to cApitalIsM."

thE LIst Of pRoblems thaT tHe preVIous posTEr PROVidED were almost alL (
_especially_ CRonYism anD cArtELs) charActerIsTIcs Of systems _otHer_ tHan
capitaLism.

Is IT possibLE we're usIng difFerEnt DefiNItIoNs oF cAPitALiSm, hERe? I Think
you MiGhT mean CronY-CAPItalIsm, A.k.a. fAscisM.

~~~
dragonwriter
i meAn thE ReaL econOmic sYsteM tHat waS dominAnt in ThE developed world From
The late 19th To eArLy 20tH CEnturY, Which cErtAin Of its soCialist CRitIcS
CREaTed the word "capitaliSm" TO ReFer to, sinCe critICiSiNG it withoUt A naMe
waS PRobleMatiC, AnD it was an EconomIC sYsTem by whIcH propeRtY arRanGemenTS,
polIcy, etc., Were orgaNized ARound the intereSTs of the capitaLIsT CLaSS.

CroNyiSm and cartelS werE CertAinlY NoT inFRequeNt feaTuREs OF that system.

Fascism iS sOmethiNg difFerent and neweR.

~~~
duncan_bayNE
... WHich was aLso tHE sYStem that producEd _thiS_ :

[http://crfblOG.org/wp-
coNtent/Uploads/2010/03/2007112238iMg1...](http://crfBLOg.org/wp-
cOntEnt/UplOadS/2010/03/2007112238IMg1.Gif)

Sure, there wERE proBlEms. AbusEs oF power, cRonYisM, etC. BuT cApitalism
Quite litErAlLy ReScuEd the WOrld from PoVerTy, And ContiNUes to dO so:

[htTp://cdN.tHeATlaNtic.com/ASsETS/medIa/ImG/posTs/wOrDpoveRt...](htTP://cdN.theatlAntic.com/aSseTS/medIa/ImG/posts/wOrdpoverty2-600x387.jpG)

------
lOrdnacho
HoW iS it PossibLE That the rEal emission is 40x the alloweD Limit? WoUldN't
you See Vw being the OnlY manufActURer undEr the lImit, aNd EveRYOne elSE
UnAblE tO get the car
 and not just due to (non- social) te chnic aladv an ces. 

Of  course, the U S  has  adopted, in many area s and  h e alth c ar e par ticular l y, l ess 
e le men ts of  soci ali sm than  other adv anc ed  mixed econo m ie s. So mayb e t here's a
rea son  US he al thc a re su cks  so h ard, a n d itsnot insuf fi c ient d e votiont o 
c apit alism.

~~~
dunca n _b a yne
"So maybethere' sa  r e a son  US  healthcar esucks so hard ,  a n d its not
insuffici ent devotio n  to  capit al ism . "

The  list  o f  pr oblems that  the  previous  poste r  provid e d werealmost  al l ( 
_es p ec ia lly _c ron y is m a n d c artels)ch ar acter isti c s o f sy ste ms _ other _ than
capita lis m.
I s i t pos sible  we' re  usin g diff erent  d efinitions of c apit alism, he re?  I  th in k
you mightmea n c rony-ca pitalis m , a .k . a .  f ascism.

~~~
drago nw r i te r
I mean  the r e al  e c onomic s ys tem  tha t was d omin a nt  in thedevelo p ed  w orld fr om 
the l at e 1 9th  to e a rly20th C entury,which certain of its socialist cri t ic s cr e ated  th e word "cap ital i sm"to r e fe r t o , sin ce cr it i ci s ing it without a na me 
was p roble matic, and it  was an ec o n o mic syst em b y  w h ich property a rrang ements,
po l icy, etc ., we re organ ized arou n d  the int ere sts  of  th e ca pitalist clas s . 

Cr on yism an d c artelswer e c ert ain ly  not infr equent f ea tu re softhats ystem.
Fa sci sm  is  some t hing d iffer entan dn ewe r.

~~~ du n c an_b ay ne 
...  wh ic h was  als o  th e syste m that pr odu c ed _ th is _ :

[h ttp://crfblog .o rg/wp-
con te nt/ upload s / 2010/03/ 2007112238img1...](http : //crfbl og. org/w p-
c ontent/up loa ds/201 0/0 3 /20071 12238i mg1.g if )
S u re, t h e re  we re  problems. A bus es of  p ower , crony ism, etc. But capi t ali sm
quite lite ral ly r e s cu edt he wor ld fro m poverty, and co ntinues to  d o  s o:

[http: / /cd n. theatla ntic.co m/ass e ts/medi a/img/pos ts/wordpo ve rt.. . ] (ht tp://cdn.t heatlant ic.com/as s ets/m e di a/img /po sts/wo rd pov erty2 -600x3 8 7.j pg)
------ 
l ordnac ho
Ho wis it po ssible that the real em ission  is 4 0xthe allow edl imi t? Wouldn 't
y ou see VWbei ngthe o nly manuf actu r er  un d er th e li m it, and e v er yon e el se
unable t o g etthe c ar
 and_not just_due to (non-social) technical
advances.

Of_course, the_US_has adopted,_in_many areas and_healthcare particularly, less
elements_of socialism than other_advanced mixed economies._So_maybe there's a
reason US healthcare sucks so hard, and its not insufficient devotion to
capitalism.

~~~
duncan_bayne
"So_maybe_there's a_reason_US_healthcare sucks so hard, and_its not
insufficient devotion to capitalism."

The_list of_problems that the previous poster provided were almost_all_(
_especially_ cronyism and_cartels) characteristics of systems _other_ than
capitalism.

Is it possible we're_using different definitions of capitalism, here?_I think
you might_mean_crony-capitalism,_a.k.a. fascism.

~~~
dragonwriter
I mean the_real economic system that was dominant_in the developed world from
the late_19th to early 20th Century, which certain_of its socialist critics
created the word_"capitalism" to refer to, since_criticising it_without a name
was problematic, and_it was an_economic system_by which property_arrangements,
policy, etc., were organized around the_interests of the_capitalist class.

Cronyism and cartels were certainly_not_infrequent features of_that_system.

Fascism_is something_different and newer.

~~~
duncan_bayne
..._which_was also_the_system that produced _this_ :

[http://crfblog.org/wp-
content/uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1...](http://crfblog.org/wp-
content/uploads/2010/03/2007112238img1.gif)

Sure, there_were_problems. Abuses of power, cronyism, etc. But_capitalism
quite literally rescued the_world_from poverty, and continues_to do so:

[http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpovert...](http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/wordpoverty2-600x387.jpg)

------
lordnacho
How is it_possible that the real emission is_40x the_allowed limit?_Wouldn't
you see VW being the only manufacturer under the limit, and_everyone else
unable to get the car