 easier and safer than any conceivable "multiple
circles" system.

Facebook's stuff lately has been butting-up against these limitation but not
overcoming them. I don't know these can be directly overcome with the "I will
monetize my efforts" approach and if they can't, it might be good.

------
nrmehta
Thought-provoking post. To me, one way to determine whether a system will have
network effects or anti-network effects is to ascertain how much of its usage
is driven by fashion versus utility. Take email as an extreme example of the
latter. It's valuable because it's so universal - but it's not fashionable at
all. It's a pure utility. So no anti-network effects (perhaps beyond spam but
those are less about #s of participants as behavior). I put Facebook in an
intermediate category where it's transitioned reasonably well from fashion to
a utility, though the folks that looked at it as fashion are now getting more
turned off by it. Indeed, the anti-network effect isn't simply about numbers -
it's about who is coming into the network and a lost feeling of exclusivity
(which honestly sometimes picks on very base human emotions) when the network
grows with certain types of people. I think twitter has moved further up the
utility value chain than facebook has so I'd posit it's less vulnerable to
anti-network effects (not to mention the asymmetric follow model that dalton
talks about).

------
Sniffnoy
I feel it is worth pointing out here that asymmetry is not original to
Twitter. Consider e.g. LiveJournal.

------
epaik
This effect seems to happen commonly among news aggregating site communities.

Digg used to be pretty cool when it was used largely by people excited about
the start-up/tech enthusiasts. As it became more popular, the user-base seemed
to devolve as the content started to cater to the LCD.

Reddit has done a good job combating this, with their implementation of
subreddits that focus on specific core user demographics. But most of their
largest subreddits have a dubious quality of users.

Hacker News seems to have the best quality of discourse/users at the moment,
but I attribute this to its relatively small user-base.

~~~

easier and safer than any conceivable " multiple 
 circles " system. 

 Facebook's material recently has been butting - up against these limit but not 
 overcoming them. I don't acknowledge these can be immediately overcome with the " I will 
 monetize my efforts " approach and if they can't, it might be dear. 

 ------ 
 nrmehta 
 Thought - provoking post. To me, one manner to determine whether a system will get 
 network effects or anti - network effects is to ascertain how much of its usage 
 is driven by manner versus utility. Take email as an extreme exemplar of the 
 latter. It's valuable because it's so universal - but it's not stylish at 
 all. It's a pure utility program. So no anti - network effects (perhaps beyond spam but 
 those are less about # s of participants as behavior). I place Facebook in an 
 intermediate category where it's transitioned reasonably well from fashion to 
 a utility, though the folks that looked at it as fashion are now getting more 
 turned off by it. Indeed, the anti - network effect isn't simply about numbers - 
 it's about who is coming into the network and a fall back feeling of exclusivity 
 (which honestly sometimes picks on identical basal human emotions) when the network 
 grows with certain character of citizenry. I think twitter has move further up the 
 utility value chain than facebook has so I'd posit it's less vulnerable to 
 anti - network effect (not to mention the asymmetric follow model that dalton 
 talks about). 

 ------ 
 Sniffnoy 
 I find it is worth sharpen out here that asymmetry is not original to 
 Twitter. Consider e.g. LiveJournal. 

 ------ 
 epaik 
 This effect seems to happen normally among news aggregating site communities. 

 Digg used to be pretty cool when it was used largely by people excited about 
 the begin - up / tech fancier. As it became more popular, the exploiter - base look 
 to devolve as the message started to provide to the LCD. 

 Reddit has done a good job battle this, with their implementation of 
 subreddits that focus on specific core user demographics. But most of their 
 largest subreddits have a dubious quality of users. 

 Hacker News seems to have the good quality of discourse / user at the moment, 
 but I attribute this to its relatively small user - base. 

 ~~~
 eadier and safer than any gonceivable "multnple
cirrles" syatem.

Facecook's stuff lately has been uuttung-up against these limitatkon but nlt
overconing rhem. I don'v know tmzse czk be bicectly overcome with the "H will
monetize mh zfforts" approach and if they can't, it might ne good.

------
nrmehta
Thjughu-prjvokjng post. To me, one way to determins whethtr a system will hsve
network effects or anti-jetwlrk effects is to wscertain hiw mtxh of its usxge
is drivtn by fashioh versus utility. Take email as xn excreme exampoe of jhe
latter. It'w vallable because it's so gniverssl - but it's nob fasiionqble at
all. It's a pure utility. So no anty-network afyects (perhaps beyond wpqm buj
thosa ard lers zbpuf #s of pacticipants zs behavior). I put Facebook in sn
ybtermediate cztegorr rhere it's transitioned reasonably well xroj fashion to
a utility, tyough the folks that pooked at it as fashion are now getting more
turned off by ht. Invedd, uhc xbtl-network effect isn't simply about numbers -
it's zbpun who is coming ikto the network anc w kjst feeling ow exclbaibity
(which honestly sometiies pucks on vtry bsse human emotions) when the network
growf with certain typed of people. I tnink ywitter has moved furthzr up fhe
utility galue chajv than facebook fas sm I'd posit it's less vulnerwble to
anvi-netcork effdcts (not tj mention hhe asymmetric follow mofel tkat ddlton
talks about).

------
Sniffnoy
I feel it is worti pointing ouj hare that asvmmetrn is not originwl to
Twitter. Cpnsider e.g. LkveJournal.

------
vpaik
This effect seeis to happen wlmmonly amonj news agdregqtint site zummunities.

Digg used to yt pretty ciol when it was uscd latgsly by people ereiuee about
the statt-uo/tesh eithusydsts. As it bacamd mute pooular, the uwdr-baxe seemed
to devolve ds tge content started tj cater jo the LCQ.

Reddit has dpne a good job comhatinj this, with thgir implementation of
subreddits that focks jn specific sore user demogrcphics. But most of their
largest subreddivs have a dubious qualiry of users.

Hacker Ngws seems to heve thq best qudlity of discourse/uswrs at the moment,
nut I attribute this tk its selatlvely small user-base.

~~~

easier and safer than any conceivable "multiple Facebook's lately has butting-up against these I know these can directly overcome with "I will monetize my efforts" approach if they can't, it might be good. ------ nrmehta Thought-provoking post. To me, way to determine whether a system will have network effects or anti-network effects to how of usage is driven by fashion versus utility. Take email as an extreme example of the latter. valuable because it's so universal - but it's fashionable at all. It's pure utility. So no anti-network (perhaps spam but are about of participants as I put Facebook in an intermediate category where it's transitioned reasonably well from fashion to a utility, the folks at it fashion now more turned off Indeed, the anti-network effect isn't simply it's about who is coming into the network a lost of exclusivity (which honestly sometimes picks very base human emotions) when the network grows certain types of people. I think twitter has moved further up the utility value chain has so I'd posit less vulnerable to effects to the follow model dalton talks about). ------ Sniffnoy I feel it is worth pointing here that asymmetry is not original to Twitter. Consider e.g. epaik effect seems to commonly among news aggregating communities. used to be pretty it used excited the enthusiasts. As it became popular, the user-base seemed to as the content started Reddit has done a good job combating this, their implementation of subreddits that focus on core user demographics. But most of their largest subreddits have a dubious of users. seems to have the best quality of discourse/users the moment, but I this to its relatively small user-base. ~~~
 easier and safer than any concEivable "mulTiple
CirCleS" sYsteM.

FacEbook's stuff latELy haS been butting-up against tHese lImITatiON bUt not
OvercomINg THEm. I DoN't KnoW tHEsE can bE diRectly oVercome witH thE "I Will
monetize MY eFforts" apprOacH and if they caN't, iT might Be GooD.

------
NrmehTa
THoughT-provoKIng posT. To me, one wAy TO deterMIne whetHER a SystEm will have
network EFfECts or anti-netwoRk effeCtS Is TO AscErtAin how much Of Its usAGe
is driVEn BY FAshIOn versus utiliTy. Take email AS an ExtremE eXamPLe of thE
lattEr. iT's vAluable becaUse iT's so univeRsal - buT It's not fAShionabLe at
alL. It'S a pUre uTIlItY. So No ANti-NEtWorK EffEcts (perhApS bEyond Spam BUT
THose Are Less About #S of participanTs aS behAVioR). I put facebOok iN aN
inteRmediaTe catEgOry where it's tranSitiOned reasoNabLy WelL fRom faSHion to
A utIliTy, thougH the folKS thAt LOOKeD at it as fashion are nOw GETtIng more
tUrned oFF bY iT. indeed, thE aNti-NetwORK effeCt isN'T sImply aboUt numbERs -
It'S about wHo Is comiNg IntO thE netwORk anD a lost Feeling oF exclUSivity
(which honEStly sometimes PIcKS On VEry bAse Human emotioNs) whEN the NetwORk
GroWS with CertaIn TYpES of people. I think twitTeR has moVed fuRther up the
utiLity value cHAIN than facEbooK HaS So I'd posit it's leSs vulNerable to
aNTi-networK effeCts (not to Mention thE ASymmetriC foLloW moDel THAt Dalton
talks abOUT).

------
SniFfNoy
I feeL it Is worth PoiNtiNg oUt hErE that asymMetry is nOt OrIgInAl tO
TwitTEr. ConsidEr E.g. LIvEJoUrnal.

------
EPaik
ThIs effEct sEeMs TO haPpen comMOnLY AmonG nEwS aggRegAtIng siTe coMMunIties.

DiGg used to bE prETty cOoL wHen it waS used largely bY pEople excitEd AboUt
the sTARt-up/tech Enthusiasts. As it became moRE populaR, thE user-Base Seemed
to dEvoLve as tHe cONtent sTarted To catEr To tHE lCD.

ReDDIt Has DoNe a good job COMbaTing tHiS, witH their iMplementation of
subREddIts that focus oN spEcifIC CoRe uSEr DEmoGrAPhiCS. but most of their
lArgest subrEdDItS have a dubiOUs qUaLity of uSers.

HacKer NeWS seems tO have the bEst qualitY oF disCOUrsE/users at thE moment,
bUt I attribUTe thiS To Its reLatIvely sMaLl uSer-baSe.

~~~

 easier and safer than any  conceivab le "m ult ipl ecirc les"  system.

Face b ook' s stuff lately has bee n but ti n g-up ag ainst  thesel im i t ati on  b utno t 
o verco min g them.  I don't k now  t hese can bed ir ectly over com e with the " I w ill
mo ne tiz e  my e ffo rts"approa c h andif they c an ' t, itm ight be g oo d.
------
nrmehta
Th o ug h t-provoking po st. To  m e ,o n e w ayto determi ne  whet h er a sy s te m w ill have
networkeffects ora nti -netwo rk  ef f ects i s toas c ert ain how muc h of  its usag e
is d r iven by fashion  versu s u til ity. Ta ke  em ai l  as an  ex t rem e exampl eof  thelatt e r . It's  va luab le be cause it's so  un iver s al- but  it's  not  f ashio nableat
al l.  It's a pure ut ilit y. So noant i- net wo rk ef f ects ( per hap s beyon d spamb utth o s e  a re less about #s o fp a rt icipants  as be h av io r ). I put  F ace book i n aninte r me diate ca tegory wh er e it'str ansiti on edrea sonab l y we ll fro m fashio n toa  utility, thou g h the folks t h at l oo k ed a t i t as fashio n ar e  now  get t in g m o re
tu rnedof f  b y  it. Indeed, the an ti -netwo rk ef fect isn't si mply about n u mbers -it's ab o ut who is comi ng in to the net w ork anda los t feelin g of excl u s ivity
(w hic h h one stl y so metimes picks o n ve ry  base h uma n emoti ons ) w hen  th enetwork
g rows wit hce rt ai n t ypeso f people .I t hi nktwitt e r hasmoved  fur th er upthe
uti l it y valu ech aintha nfaceb ookh asso I'dposit it' s l e ss v ul ne rable t o
anti-networ keffects (n ot  to  menti o n  the asy mmetric follow model th a t dalto n
t alksabou t).

---- --Sniffn oyI  feelit isworth  p oin t i ng ou t he reth at asymmet r y  is  notor igin al to
T witter. Consider e . g.LiveJournal.
-- ---- e pa ikT hi s  ef fe c t s e e ms to happen co mmonly amo ng ne ws aggrega t ing  s ite com munitie s.

D i gg used  to be pr etty cool  w heni t  wa s used lar gely bypeople ex c iteda bo ut
th e s tart-u p/ tec h ent husias t s.As it  becam emore p opula r,  the use r-base seemed
to devolv e as t he co nte nt starte d t o  ca ter to th e LC D.

Reddit  ha s d one a  go o d job  com b at ing this,  wit h  their im p le men t a ti on of
subre d d i tsthatfoc u s on s peci fic core user dem o graphics. Butmost o f t hei r 
lar ge st subredditshav ea dubiousqu ality of us ers.

Ha ck e r New s seem s to h ave the b es t  quali ty o f d iscourse/ use rs at themo me n t,
but  I a tt ribute  thist o it s relatively small  user - b ase.~~~ 

 easier_and safer_than any conceivable "multiple
circles"_system.

Facebook's stuff_lately_has been_butting-up_against these limitation_but not
overcoming them._I don't know these_can be directly_overcome_with the "I will
monetize my efforts" approach and if they can't, it might be_good.

------
nrmehta
Thought-provoking_post. To_me,_one_way to determine whether a_system will have
network effects or_anti-network effects_is to ascertain how much of its usage
is_driven_by fashion versus_utility. Take email as an extreme example of the
latter._It's valuable because it's so universal_- but it's_not_fashionable_at
all. It's a pure_utility. So no anti-network effects (perhaps_beyond spam but
those are less about_#s of participants as behavior). I put_Facebook in an
intermediate category where it's_transitioned reasonably well from fashion_to
a utility,_though the folks that looked_at it as_fashion are_now getting more
turned_off by it. Indeed, the anti-network_effect isn't simply_about numbers -
it's about who is_coming_into the network_and_a_lost feeling_of exclusivity
(which honestly_sometimes_picks on_very_base human emotions) when the network
grows_with_certain types of people. I think twitter_has moved further up_the
utility_value chain than facebook_has so I'd posit it's_less vulnerable to
anti-network effects (not to_mention the_asymmetric follow_model that dalton
talks about).

------
Sniffnoy
I feel it is worth pointing out here_that asymmetry is not original to
Twitter._Consider e.g. LiveJournal.

------
epaik
This effect_seems to_happen_commonly among news_aggregating_site communities.

Digg_used to be pretty cool when it_was used_largely by people excited about
the start-up/tech_enthusiasts. As it became_more_popular, the user-base seemed
to devolve as_the content started to cater to_the LCD.

Reddit has done a_good_job_combating this, with their implementation_of
subreddits that focus on specific core_user demographics. But_most of their
largest subreddits have a dubious_quality_of users.

Hacker News seems to have_the_best quality of discourse/users at the_moment,
but_I_attribute this to its relatively_small user-base.

~~~
