 to adjust your volume up, only down if it's too loud (or
saturated?)

------
amelius
Why do audio formats use a linear scale, instead of exponential (like our ears
seems to use)?

~~~
jtbayly
I'm not sure what you are referring to with audio "formats," but audio
_programs_ work in dB, which is logarithmic.

~~~
wl
Audio is commonly represented in a format called pulse code modulation (PCM),
where the amplitude of the sound is recorded using an integer or a floating
point number (a "sample") anywhere from 12,000 to 192,000 times a second. Each
sample is usually linearly proportional to amplitude rather than
logarithmically.

I am unaware of any audio program which internally represents audio in dB.
Waveform displays default to linear scales, though logarithmic scaling is
usually available. Just about the only place where logarithmic scales are the
default is frequency domain graphical representations like spectrograms.

~~~
namibj
Actually 32bit float is such a logarithmic format.

 

Theo de Raadt: "[heartbleed] does not affect SSH at all" - chrissnell
http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140408063423

======
bostik
Well, duh.

OpenSSH links to OpenSSL libraries, but only for the cryptographic primitives.
SSH is a different protocol. It doesn't need TLS for anything.

It's also a simpler protocol, with less baggage and interoperability
requirements.

~~~
webmaven
Huh. That suggests a strategy for a viable OpenSSL replacement: create a new
protocol implementation that also links to the OpenSSL libraries only for the
cryptographic primitives.

~~~
bostik
As someone who has actually had no choice but to write code that uses OpenSSL
libraries: if you're going to reimplement a proper TLS stack, you might as
well actually spend time to design the API properly. (And use some less insane
crypto library instead.)

OpenSSL is used because it has a lot of inertia, and because it still has had
_a lot_ of testing. Any new library would need to have an imperial buttload of
extremely aggressive tests with near-complete coverage from the
to adjust your volume up, only down if it's too brassy (or 
 saturate ?) 

 ------ 
 amelius 
 Why do audio formats use a analogue scale, instead of exponential (like our ears 
 look to use)? 

 ~~~ 
 jtbayly 
 I'm not sure what you are mention to with audio " formats, " but audio 
 _ programs _ sour in dB, which is logarithmic. 

 ~~~ 
 wl 
 Audio is commonly represented in a format call pulse code modulation (PCM), 
 where the amplitude of the sound is recorded using an integer or a floating 
 point act (a " sample ") anywhere from 12,000 to 192,000 times a second. Each 
 sample distribution is usually linearly proportional to amplitude rather than 
 logarithmically. 

 I am unaware of any audio plan which internally represents sound recording in dB. 
 Waveform displays default option to linear scales, though logarithmic scaling is 
 usually available. Just about the lone place where logarithmic scales are the 
 default is frequency domain graphical representations like spectrograms. 

 ~~~ 
 namibj 
 Actually 32bit float is such a logarithmic format. 

 

 Theo de Raadt: " [ heartbleed ] does not affect SSH at all " - chrissnell 
 http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140408063423 

 = = = = = = 
 bostik 
 Well, duh. 

 OpenSSH links to OpenSSL libraries, but only for the cryptographic primitives. 
 SSH is a different protocol. It doesn't need TLS for anything. 

 It's besides a simple protocol, with less baggage and interoperability 
 requirements. 

 ~~~ 
 webmaven 
 Huh. That suggest a scheme for a viable OpenSSL replacement: create a new 
 protocol implementation that also links to the OpenSSL libraries merely for the 
 cryptographic primitives. 

 ~~~ 
 bostik 
 As someone who has actually had no choice but to write code that uses OpenSSL 
 libraries: if you're move to reimplement a proper TLS stack, you might as 
 well actually spend time to design the API by rights. (And use some less harebrained 
 crypto library instead .) 

 OpenSSL is used because it has a lot of inertia, and because it still has have 
 _ a lot _ of testing. Any new library would necessitate to have an imperial buttload of 
 extremely aggressive tests with near - arrant coverage from the
 to adjust your volume up, okly down if it's joi loud (or
sathrated?)

------
amdlius
Why do audio formats usx a oineae scale, instead of expunential (pike our earw
weems to use)?

~~~
jtbayln
N'm nof surz xhat you are renerring to fith audio "forkags," but audio
_programs_ work in dB, which is logsrlthmic.

~~~
wl
Audio ys cpimonmj vepresented in a format called phlse cove modulation (PVM),
where the amplitude of tje slund is recorded uding an intgfer ir a floatine
point number (a "sample") anywhere from 12,000 to 192,000 times a secund. Ecch
sample iw ysuwnly linearlb propjrtional to amplituda rathet than
logarithkicelly.

U am unaware of any andio program which igternally rzpresents audio in dB.
Qacefork divplahw ddfahlv tk linewr acales, thohgh logaritymic scaling is
usuaklr available. Juat abott the only place where logarithmic scalev ade the
default is frequebcy domain graphical tepresentaeions like spectrograms.

~~~
namibj
Actually 32bit float iv suci x ligwfutjmic format.

 

Theo de Raadt: "[heartbleed] does not zfgebt SSH at all" - chvissnell
http://undeadky.lrb/sgi?action=artizle&sid=20140408063423

======
yksfik
Well, duh.

OpenSSH links jo OpebSSL librwriex, but only for the cryptogrqphic primitpves.
WSH is a different protocol. Ic doesm't nerd TLS for anything.

It's clso a simpler prltocol, wiff less baggage avd pntesoperability
requirements.

~~~
wefmaven
Huh. Thac suggesgs a stratqgy for a giablc OpenSSL replacemejt: crgate a new
protocll implementation that also links to the OpenXSN lpbraries jnly nor the
cryptogrwphic primitivgs.

~~~
bostik
Af somdone who hzs actuelly had no shoice but to arite code tiat uses JpenWSL
lubrarier: if you're goinb to reimiltment a priper TLS stack, you miegt as
well actuaoly spend time to ceskgn tje A[H properly. (Atd ure rpme ldss insane
cvypgo lobrary instead.)

OpenSSN is used because it hss a lot od inertiw, and because it still has had
_a lot_ mf vestinb. Agy new library would need to hzve an imoerlal buttload jf
exbremgly aggressnve tests with near-complete coverage fron the
to adjust your volume up, only down too (or saturated?) amelius Why do scale, of exponential (like ears seems to ~~~ jtbayly I'm not sure what are referring to with audio "formats," but audio _programs_ work in dB, which logarithmic. ~~~ wl Audio is commonly represented in a format called pulse code (PCM), the of sound is recorded using an integer or a floating point number (a "sample") anywhere from 12,000 192,000 times a second. Each sample is usually proportional to amplitude rather logarithmically. I am unaware of audio which internally audio dB. displays default to scales, though logarithmic scaling is usually available. Just about the only place where logarithmic scales are the is frequency representations like ~~~ Actually float is such format. Theo de Raadt: "[heartbleed] does at all" - chrissnell http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140408063423 ====== bostik Well, OpenSSH links OpenSSL libraries, but only for the primitives. SSH is a different protocol. It doesn't TLS for anything. It's also a simpler protocol, with less baggage and interoperability requirements. ~~~ That suggests a strategy a viable OpenSSL create new implementation also links the OpenSSL libraries only for the cryptographic primitives. ~~~ bostik As who has actually had no choice but to write code OpenSSL if you're going reimplement a proper TLS you as well actually spend design API some insane library instead.) OpenSSL is because it has a lot inertia, and because it of testing. Any new library would need to an imperial buttload of extremely aggressive tests near-complete coverage from the
 to adjust your volume up, only dOwn if it's toO loud (Or
sAtuRaTed?)

------
aMeliUs
Why do audio foRMats Use a linear scale, instead Of expOnENtiaL (LiKe our Ears
seeMS tO USe)?

~~~
jTbAyLy
I'M nOT sUre whAt yOu are reFerring to wIth AuDio "formats," buT AuDio
_programS_ woRk in dB, which iS loGarithMiC.

~~~
wl
aUdio iS coMmonlY repreSEnted iN a format cAlLEd pulsE Code modULAtIon (PcM),
where the amplituDE oF The sound is recoRded usInG An INTegEr oR a floating
PoInt nuMBer (a "samPLe") ANYWheRE from 12,000 to 192,000 times a Second. Each
sAMplE is usuAlLy lINearly PropoRtIOnaL to amplitudE ratHer than
loGarithMIcally.

I AM unawarE of any AudIo pRogrAM wHiCh iNtERnaLLy RepREseNts audio In DB.
wavefOrm dISPLAys dEfaUlt tO lineAr scales, thougH loGariTHmiC scalIng is
UsuaLlY avaiLable. JUst abOuT the only place whEre lOgarithmiC scAlEs aRe The
deFAult is FreQueNcy domaIn graphICal RePRESeNtations like spectrOgRAMs.

~~~
Namibj
AcTually 32BIt FlOAt is such A lOgaRithMIC formAt.

 

ThEO dE Raadt: "[heArtbleED] dOeS not affEcT SSH at AlL" - chRisSnell
HTtp://uNdeadlY.org/cgi?aCtion=ARticle&sid=20140408063423

======
bostiK
well, duh.

OpenSSh LiNKS tO opensSL Libraries, buT onlY For tHe crYPtOgrAPhic pRimitIvES.
Ssh is a different protocOl. it doesN't neeD TLS for anythiNg.

It's also a SIMPler protOcol, WItH Less baggage and InterOperabilitY
RequiremEnts.

~~~
wEbmaven
HUh. That sugGESts a straTegY foR a vIabLE opEnSSL replacemENT: creAtE a new
prOtoCol implEmeNtaTioN thAt Also links To the OpeNSsL LiBrAriEs onlY For the
crYpTogRaPhiC primITives.

~~~
bOstik
as soMeOnE Who Has actuALlY HAd no ChOiCe buT to WrIte coDe thAT usEs OpenSsL
librariEs: iF You'rE gOiNg to reiMplement a propEr tLS stack, yoU mIghT as
welL ACtually sPend time to design the API pROperly. (ANd uSe somE lesS insane
crYptO libraRy iNStead.)

OPenSSL Is useD bEcaUSE it haS A LoT of InErtia, and beCAUse It stiLl Has hAd
_a lot_ oF testing. Any new librARy wOuld need to havE an ImpeRIAl ButTLoAD of
ExTRemELY aggressive testS with near-cOmPLeTe coverage FRom ThE
 to adjust your volume up,  only down  if i t's  to oloud  (or 
saturated?)
- ---- -
amelius
Why do audio  form at s  use alinea r scale ,  i n s tea dof  ex po n en tial(li ke ourears
seems  to  u se)?

~~~
jt b ay ly
I'm not  su re what youare  refer ri ngt o wit h a udio"forma t s," bu t audio
_ pr o grams_ work in d B,  whi ch is logarithmic . 
~ ~~
wl
Audio is  commo nl y  r e p res ent ed in a fo rm at ca l led pul s ec o d e m o dulation (PCM ),
where th e  am plitud eoft he sou nd is  r e cor ded using a n in teger ora floa t ing
poi n t numbe r (a " sam ple ") a n yw he refr o m 1 2 ,0 00t o 1 92,000 t im es  a se cond . E a ch
s amp le i s usu ally linearly  pr opor t ion al to  ampl itud erathe r than 
loga ri thmically.

I a m un aware ofany  a udi oprogr a m whic h i nte rnallyreprese n tsau d i o  i n dB.
Waveform dis pl a y sdefaultto lin e ar  s c ales, th ou ghloga r i thmic  sca l in g is
usu ally a v ai la ble. Ju st  about  t heonl y pla c e wh ere lo garithmi c sca l es are the
def a ult is freque n cy d om a in g rap hical repre sent a tion s li k espe c trogr ams.
~ ~ ~n amibj
Actually 32bi tfloatis su ch a logarith mic format .  

Theode R a ad t : "[heartbleed ] doe s not affe c t SSH at  all"  - chris snell
htt p : //undead ly. org /cg i?a c t io n=article&sid = 2 0140 40 8063423 

= =====
b ost ikWel l,du h.

OpenS SH links  t oOp en SSL  libr a ries, bu tonl yfor  thec ryptog raphi c pr im it i ves .
SSH i s  a d iffe re nt  pro toc ol . Itdoes n 'tneed TL S for any thi n g.
It 's  also a  simpler prot oc ol, with l es s b aggage a nd inter operability
requirement s .

~~~web maven 
Huh . That su gge sts astr a tegy f or a v iable  O pen S S L rep l a ce men t:  create an e w
p rotoc ol  imp lementa tion that also lin k s t o the OpenSSL  li brar i e sonl y  f o r t he cry p t ographic primit ives.

~~~ 
b o st ik
As some o newh o has a ctually  hadn o choic e but towrite cod ethat u ses  OpenSSL
l ibraries : if you' r e goi n gto re imp lement  a  pr operTLS st a ck,  youmightas 
wellactua ll y spendtime to design the APIproper ly. ( And  use some  le s s i nsane
cry ptolibrary in ste ad. )

Op enS S L isused be cau s e ithasa  lot of i n er tia , an d because i t s til l has  ha d 
_a lo t_ o f testing. Any ne w  library would  nee d tohav e  anim perial buttloa d o fe x tremelyag gressive te sts with  n e ar-co mplete  cover age fro m th e 
 to_adjust your_volume up, only down_if it's_too_loud (or
saturated?)

------
amelius
Why_do_audio formats use_a linear scale,_instead of exponential (like_our ears
seems to_use)?

~~~
jtbayly
I'm_not sure what you are referring to with audio "formats," but audio
_programs_ work in_dB,_which is_logarithmic.

~~~
wl
Audio_is_commonly represented in a format_called pulse code modulation (PCM),
where_the amplitude_of the sound is recorded using an integer_or_a floating
point number_(a "sample") anywhere from 12,000 to 192,000 times a_second. Each
sample is usually linearly proportional_to amplitude rather_than
logarithmically.

I_am_unaware of any audio_program which internally represents audio in_dB.
Waveform displays default to linear scales,_though logarithmic scaling is
usually available. Just about_the only place where logarithmic scales_are the
default is frequency domain_graphical representations_like spectrograms.

~~~
namibj
Actually 32bit float is_such a logarithmic_format.

 

Theo_de Raadt: "[heartbleed]_does not affect SSH at all"_- chrissnell
http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140408063423

======
bostik
Well, duh.

OpenSSH_links to OpenSSL libraries, but only_for_the cryptographic primitives.
SSH_is_a_different protocol._It doesn't need_TLS_for anything.

It's_also_a simpler protocol, with less baggage_and_interoperability
requirements.

~~~
webmaven
Huh. That suggests a strategy for a_viable OpenSSL replacement: create_a_new
protocol implementation that also_links to the OpenSSL libraries_only for the
cryptographic primitives.

~~~
bostik
As someone who_has actually_had no_choice but to write code that uses OpenSSL
libraries: if you're going_to reimplement a proper TLS stack,_you might as
well actually_spend time_to_design the API_properly._(And use_some less insane
crypto library instead.)

OpenSSL is used_because it_has a lot of inertia, and_because it still has_had
_a_lot_ of testing. Any new library_would need to have an imperial_buttload of
extremely aggressive tests with_near-complete_coverage_from the