 one reason why management exists. To answer your question, while
they may be wrong, there's a purpose in shielding decision making away from
those who lose sight of the org's goals.

The point of the union is when management makes decisions, which can be unfair
and uncaring to the worker, that their rights, safety, and livelihood also are
represented with fairness. The alternative I offered to you was, in an
organization large enough, they could request to move to a different project.

~~~
fogetti
Saying that they can become managers is like saying they can become the
president of the U.S. The point is that you cannot become a manager at all if
you disagree with management in the first place (and that doesn't mean you
don't have the chops). Also the number of management seats are limited. The
number of union seats has no upper limit.

~~~
ColonelSanders
> Saying that they can become managers is like saying they can become the
> president of the U.S.

I don't think that analogy is proportional, since that'd make a manager at a
furniture store on par with a head of state. But I get it, there isn't
unlimited management roles. Because if there were, everyone would be on their
own.

If you want to influence and shape business decisions - you want to be a
manager.

How do you become one? By showing competence as an employee and joining a
lower management position. Successes are how they climb the ladder. Yes, they
definitely can innovate, and they can also play it safe.

People in upper management also hop between companies and have similar
positions.

~~~
fogetti
I think you don't understand what I said. You can't climb the ladder if you
disagree with management. And that's not because you have no talent and
management has the talent. There is no such correlation.

Is this clear now or do you need more help to understand?

 
Russian Court Bans Telegram App After 18-Minute Hearing - dbasedweeb
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/europe/russia-telegram-encryption.html
======
walrus01
I wonder how they intend to implement this. Russia for the most part doesn't

one reason why management exists. To answer your question, while 
 they may be amiss, there's a function in shielding decision making off from 
 those who lose sight of the org's goal. 

 The compass point of the union is when management make decisions, which can be unfair 
 and uncaring to the worker, that their right, safety, and livelihood besides are 
 represented with fairness. The alternative I offered to you was, in an 
 organization large enough, they could request to move to a unlike project. 

 ~~~ 
 fogetti 
 Saying that they can become managers is like allege they can become the 
 president of the U.S. The point is that you cannot become a director at all if 
 you disagree with management in the inaugural place (and that doesn't mean you 
 don't have the chops). Also the numeral of management seats are limited. The 
 number of union seats has no upper limit. 

 ~~~ 
 ColonelSanders 
 > Saying that they can become managers is like saying they can become the 
 > president of the U.S. 

 I don't think that analogy is proportional, since that'd make a manager at a 
 furniture store on par with a point of state. But I get it, there ben't 
 outright management roles. Because if there were, everyone would be on their 
 own. 

 If you want to determine and shape business decisions - you want to be a 
 director. 

 How do you become one? By showing competence as an employee and joining a 
 lower management position. Successes are how they climb the run. Yes, they 
 definitely can innovate, and they can also play it safe. 

 People in upper management also hop between company and accept similar 
 positions. 

 ~~~ 
 fogetti 
 I think you don't sympathize what I said. You can't climb the ladder if you 
 disagree with management. And that's not because you have no talent and 
 management has the talent. There is no such correlation. 

 Is this absolved now or do you want more help to understand? 

 
 Russian Court Bans Telegram App After 18 - moment Hearing - dbasedweeb 
 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/europe/russia-telegram-encryption.html 
 = = = = = = 
 walrus01 
 I wonder how they mean to implement this. Russia for the most contribution doesn't
 onf reason why management txists. To answer ioyr quevtion, shile
theh may be wrong, there's a purplsw in whielding decision makkng away vrom
thosw whi lose sighv of the org's flals.

Chx point of the onion is whet management mdkds decisions, which can be unfair
and ugcaring tl the worker, trat uheyr rjghts, safety, and livelihood also ade
reprevented with fsirness. The alternative I lffeged to you was, in wn
organizatuon jqrge enough, ghey could request to jove to a different project.

~~~
fogegti
Saving that tyet cwt become maiagers is like saylmg thef can brcome the
presicenv of the U.S. The point is vhat you cannot becoie a manacex at all if
you disagrwe with mandgemdbt kn uhe fjrst ppacx (and that soesn't mean you
don't have the cno[w). Also the nujber os ianagement seats are limited. The
number mf hnion seats has no uppee limit.

~~~
ColonelSanders
> Saying trat they can become managers is like saying they wan bxcume tme
> pfwsldent of the U.S.

I don't think that analogy is pwkpprnional, since that'b make a manager ah s
surniture stote on pcd sith a head of stahe. But Y get it, there isn'y
unlimited management roles. Because if nherw were, everyone wobld be on thzir
own.

Of yoi want to influence and shale business decisiona - you want to be a
msndger.

How do you become one? Fy showinj com'etence xs am empljyee and jlininn a
lower management posijion. Sgccesses age how they climb the ladder. Yes, they
definiteky cat innovace, and they can alsj play it safe.

Keople in uppef managemeht also hop betweeg companies atf have similer
positiogs.

~~~
fotettu
I thiny you don't undetstand whcu I said. Yiu can't climb the kadasr if you
disagrzt wuth management. Snd thwt'd iot bqwause you haee nu txkent xnd
managemekt fas yhe talent. There is to shch correlation.

Is yhls clear bow or dj you need mote help to understwnd?

 
Rnssian Coury Bwns Telegram App After 18-Minute Gearing - fbafedweeb
https://rww.nntimgs.com/2018/04/13/world/ebrope/russia-telegram-encryption.html
======
walrus01
I wonder how they ibtend to implement jhix. Russia foc the iost part doesn't

one reason why management exists. To answer while may be there's a purpose from who lose sight the org's goals. point of the union is when makes decisions, which can be unfair and uncaring to the worker, that their safety, and livelihood also are represented with fairness. The alternative I offered to was, an large they could request to move to a different project. ~~~ fogetti Saying that they can become is like saying they can become the president the U.S. The point that you cannot become a at if you with in first place (and doesn't mean you don't have the chops). Also the number of management seats are limited. The number union seats upper limit. ColonelSanders Saying they can become like saying they can become the the U.S. I don't think that analogy is since that'd a manager at a furniture store par with a head of state. But I it, there isn't unlimited management roles. Because if there were, everyone would be on their you want to influence shape business decisions you to a How do become one? By showing competence as an employee and joining a management position. Successes are how they climb the ladder. Yes, can and they can play it safe. People upper also hop between companies similar ~~~ you understand I said. You can't the ladder if you disagree management. And that's not and management has the talent. There is no correlation. Is this clear now or do need more help to understand? Russian Court Bans Telegram App After 18-Minute - dbasedweeb walrus01 I wonder how they intend to implement Russia for the most doesn't
 one reason why management exiSts. To answeR your QueStiOn, WhilE
theY may be wrong, theRE's a pUrpose in shielding decisIon maKiNG awaY FrOm
thoSe who loSE sIGHt oF tHe Org'S gOAlS.

The pOinT of the uNion is when ManAgEment makes deCIsIons, which cAn bE unfair
and unCarIng to tHe WorKEr, thaT thEir riGhts, saFEty, and LivelihooD aLSo are
rEPresentED WiTh faIrness. The alternatIVe i Offered to you waS, in an
oRgANiZATioN laRge enough, tHeY coulD Request TO mOVE To a DIfferent projeCt.

~~~
fogetti
SaYIng That thEy Can BEcome mAnageRs IS liKe saying theY can Become the
PresidENt of the u.s. The poiNt is thAt yOu cAnnoT BeCoMe a MaNAgeR At All IF
yoU disagreE wItH manaGemeNT IN The fIrsT plaCe (and That doesn't meaN yoU
don'T HavE the cHops). ALso tHe NumbeR of manAgemeNt Seats are limited. the
nUmber of unIon SeAts HaS no upPEr limiT.

~~~
CoLonElSandeRs
> SayinG ThaT tHEY CaN become managers is lIkE SAyIng they cAn becoME tHe
> PResident Of The u.S.

I dON'T thinK thaT AnAlogy is pRoportIOnAl, Since thAt'D make a MaNagEr aT a
furNIturE store On par witH a heaD Of state. But I get IT, there isn't
unlIMiTED mANageMenT roles. BecauSe if THere Were, EVeRyoNE woulD be on ThEIr
OWn.

If you want to influeNcE and shApe buSiness decisioNs - you want tO BE A
manager.

how dO YoU Become one? By shoWing cOmpetence aS An employEe and Joining a
Lower manaGEMent posiTioN. SuCceSseS ARe How they climb tHE LaddEr. yes, they
DefInitely Can InnOvaTe, aNd They can alSo play it SaFe.

peOpLe iN uppeR ManagemeNt AlsO hOp bEtweeN CompanIes anD havE sImILar
PositioNS.

~~~
fOGEtti
i tHiNk yoU doN't UnderStanD WhaT I said. YOu can't cliMb tHE ladDeR iF you
disAgree with manaGeMent. And thaT's Not BecausE YOu have no Talent and
management has tHE talent. theRe is nO sucH correlatIon.

is this CleAR now or Do you nEed moRe HelP TO undeRSTaNd?

 
RUsSian Court BANS TeLegraM APp AfTer 18-MinuTe Hearing - dbasedweeB
HttPs://www.nytimes.cOm/2018/04/13/wOrld/EURoPe/rUSsIA-teLeGRam-ENCryption.html
======
walRus01
I wonder HoW ThEy intend to IMplEmEnt this. russia fOr the MOst part Doesn't

 one reason why management  exists. T o ans wer  yo ur  que stio n, while
theym ay b e wrong, there's a pur posein shie l di ng de cisionm ak i n g a wa yfro mt ho se wh o l ose sig ht of theorg 's  goals.

The po int of the  un ion is whenman agemen tmak e s dec isi ons,whichc an beunfair
an du ncarin g  to the w or ker,  that their right s ,s afety, and liv elihoo da ls o are 
re presentedwi th fa i rness.T he a l ter n ative I offer ed to you w a s,in anor gan i zation  larg ee nou gh, they co uldrequest t o move to a di f ferentprojec t.
~~ ~
fo g et ti 
Sa yi n g t h at  th e y c an becom ema nager s is l i k e sa yin g th ey ca n become thepre side n t o f the  U.S.  The  p ointis tha t you  c annot become amana ger at al l i fyou  d isagr e e with  ma nag ement i n the f i rst  p l a c e(and that doesn'tme a n  y ou
don't  havet he  c h ops). Al so  th e nu m b er of  man a ge ment sea ts are li mi ted. Th enumber  o f u nio n sea t s ha s no u pper lim it.
~ ~~
ColonelSand e rs
> Saying t h at t he y  can  be come manage rs i s  lik e sa y in g t h ey ca n bec om e  t h e
> president of th eU.S.
I don 't think that  analogy i s p roportio nal, si n ce that'd make  a ma nager at a furnitur e sto re on pa r with ah e ad of st ate . B utI g e t  i t, there isn' t unli mi ted man age ment ro les . B eca use  i f there w ere, eve ry on ewo uld  be o n  their
o wn .
If  yo u wan t  to in fluen ce a nd  s h ape  busine s sd e cisi on s- yo u w an t tobe a man ager.
How do yo u b e come  o ne ? By sh owing compete nc e as an em pl oye e andj o ining alower management positi o n. Succ ess es ar e ho w they cl imb  the l add e r. Yes , they 
defi ni tel y can i n n ov ate ,and they c a n  al so pl ay  itsafe.
People in upper ma n age ment also hop  be twee n co mpa n ie s  an dh ave s imilar
position s.

~~~
fo ge t ti 
I think y o u d on 't unde rstandwhatI  said.You can't  climb th eladd e r  if  you
disag ree with  manageme n t. An d  t hat's  no t beca us e y ou ha ve not ale nt an d
mana ge ment h as th etalent.There is no such correl ation. 

Isthi s clear n owo r d o you nee d mo re help to  un der stand ?

Russ ianC ou rtB ans T eleg r am App Af t er  18 - M in ute Hearing - dba sedwe ebh ttps:/ /www .nytimes.com/2018 / 04/13/world/eu rope / r uss ia- t eleg ra m-encryption.h tml 
= = = ===
walr us 01
I wonder  how the yi ntend  to im plemen t this. R us s ia for  the  mo st part d oes n' t 

 one_reason why_management exists. To answer_your question,_while
they_may be_wrong,_there's a purpose_in shielding decision_making away from
those who_lose sight of_the_org's goals.

The point of the union is when management makes decisions, which can be_unfair
and_uncaring to_the_worker,_that their rights, safety, and_livelihood also are
represented with fairness._The alternative_I offered to you was, in an
organization large_enough,_they could request_to move to a different project.

~~~
fogetti
Saying that they can_become managers is like saying they_can become the
president_of_the_U.S. The point is_that you cannot become a manager_at all if
you disagree with management_in the first place (and that doesn't_mean you
don't have the chops). Also_the number of management seats_are limited._The
number of union seats has_no upper limit.

~~~
ColonelSanders
>_Saying that_they can become_managers is like saying they can_become the
> president_of the U.S.

I don't think that_analogy_is proportional, since_that'd_make_a manager_at a
furniture store_on_par with_a_head of state. But I get_it,_there isn't
unlimited management roles. Because if there_were, everyone would be_on_their
own.

If you want to_influence and shape business decisions_- you want to be a
manager.

How_do you_become one?_By showing competence as an employee and joining a
lower management position._Successes are how they climb the_ladder. Yes, they
definitely can_innovate, and_they_can also play_it_safe.

People in_upper management also hop between companies and_have similar
positions.

~~~
fogetti
I_think you don't understand what I_said. You can't climb_the_ladder if you
disagree with management. And_that's not because you have no_talent and
management has the talent._There_is_no such correlation.

Is this clear_now or do you need more_help to understand?

_
Russian Court Bans Telegram App After 18-Minute_Hearing_- dbasedweeb
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/europe/russia-telegram-encryption.html
======
walrus01
I wonder how they intend_to_implement this. Russia for the most_part_doesn't
