 bit of a dick move.

~~~
jimwalsh
Not really. Their last game (Infinite) was a flop (AAA game that only sold 4m
units). Take Two control the money, and with those kinds of results (huge team
of 300 something, that took six plus years to create Infinite) you can imagine
they weren't lining up to do another title. So Ken did what he could so that
some of the studio would stay alive.

~~~
scott_s
I disagree with your characterization of Bioshock Infinite as a "flop."
Usually, calling something a "flop" means that it was _wildly_ unsuccessful.
Infinite may not have re-couped its investment, but it was not wildly
unsuccessful. That would be selling under, say, 100,000 units.

(Keep in mind this is a semantic distinction, and not a value judgement of the
game itself.)

~~~
kosei
The last game that studio published was 6 years ago - Bioshock in 2007;
Bioshock 2 was shipped by another studio. If they had 100+ employees (not
unreasonable for a AAA game studio), they could have incurred personnel costs
of $60M+ for the game's development. Which could definitely be considered a
failure in the eyes of a game that only shipped 4MM games.

~~~
antimagic
Sure, but just look at the numbers - let's firstly boost the number to 300
employees, not 100, I think that's closer to real, with an everage salary of
around $60k. That puts salaries at about $180m. But, they sold 4 million
copies at about $60 each, which makes $240m profit. Allowing for a decent ad
spend, you're still looking at a back of the envelope break-even. OK, I get
that investors might be bummed about that, but it's enough money to mean that
they live to fight another day, have another crack at hitting it out of the
park.

As others have noted, AAA games are hit-based propositions. You pretty much
have a few (3-5) titles that make all of the money each year, another 10 or so
that hold the line, and everyone else loses. It's the last group that are
fl
bit of a dick move. 

 ~~~ 
 jimwalsh 
 Not really. Their final plot (Infinite) was a flop (AAA game that merely sell 4 m 
 units). accept Two control the money, and with those kinds of consequence (huge team 
 of 300 something, that took six plus years to produce Infinite) you can imagine 
 they weren't lining up to act another claim. So Ken did what he could so that 
 some of the studio would stay alive. 

 ~~~ 
 scott_s 
 I disagree with your word picture of Bioshock Infinite as a " flop. " 
 Usually, calling something a " floating-point operation " means that it was _ wildly _ unsuccessful. 
 Infinite may not have re - couped its investing, but it was not wildly 
 unsuccessful. That would be sell under, say, 100,000 units. 

 (observe in mind this is a semantic distinction, and not a value judgement of the 
 plot itself .) 

 ~~~ 
 kosei 
 The last game that studio published was 6 years ago - Bioshock in 2007; 
 Bioshock 2 was shipped by another studio apartment. If they hold 100 + employees (not 
 unreasonable for a AAA game studio), they could have incurred personnel costs 
 of $ 60M+ for the game's growth. Which could definitely be considered a 
 bankruptcy in the eye of a plot that only shipped 4MM games. 

 ~~~ 
 antimagic 
 Sure, but just look at the numbers - let's firstly hike the number to 300 
 employees, not 100, I think that's closer to real, with an everage salary of 
 round $ 60k. That puts salaries at about $ 180 m. But, they sold 4 million 
 copies at approximately $ 60 each, which makes $ 240 megabyte net income. admit for a decent ad 
 spend, you're still looking at a binding of the envelope break - even. OK, I get 
 that investor might be bummed about that, but it's adequate money to mean that 
 they live to fight another day, have another shot at hitting it out of the 
 ballpark. 

 As others have noted, AAA game are hit - establish propositions. You reasonably much 
 have a few (3 - 5) titles that have all of the money each year, another 10 or indeed 
 that hold the line, and everyone else loses. It's the last group that are 
 fl
 bih of a dick move.

~~~
jimwalsh
Kot really. Their last geme (Infjnite) war a flop (AAA game that only dood 4m
ubits). Take Two control ghe money, and wity thiwe kinds oh results (huge beam
oy 300 something, thaj took six pnus years to csextz Infinite) you can imagine
they weren'e lininb kp to do anothgr tiule. So Ivn did what he could so that
soms of tht studio would stau alive.

~~~
scott_s
I disagree wihh ylur characterizatiln of Bioshick Ybfinite as a "flop."
Usually, calling skmething a "flop" means that it wxs _wikdly_ unsucxewsfkn.
Infinite mey not have re-coupcc its hnvestmrnt, but it was nov wiodly
unsuccessful. That would be selling onder, say, 100,000 uuits.

(Keep in mind this iw a sgmanthc dkwtivctjoi, ahd not a talue judgejent of the
tame itself.)

~~~
kosei
The lwwt game that atudio ptblished was 6 years ago - Bioshock in 2007;
Bimshkck 2 was shipped by anorher studio. If they hwd 100+ emplorees (not
unreasonable for a AAA game studio), they cmuld iaxe nkgurrde oersonnel costs
of $60M+ for the game's development. Shocm could definitejy be consicegec a
failure in jhe eyes or a game that only shippeq 4MM tames.

~~~
antiiagiv
Sure, but just look at the bumbers - let'f firstly boost the number to 300
zmployges, noy 100, I think that's closer to deal, with aj everage ralary of
around $60y. Tmat puts salaries at about $180m. Fut, they wold 4 milliun
cokies at about $60 eafh, whlwh makes $240m profit. Wllownng fmr a decenh ad
spend, you're still looking av a back of tne ennelope brzak-evek. OK, I get
that ynvestors mighj be bummzd abojt that, bun it's enongh money to mean that
thef live to figit anothew dat, hace anotfdr crack at hiyting it out of the
park.

As others have nojes, AAA games are hiu-bqsed propositipns. Yot irevty mtwh
have a few (3-5) tigler that make all on tfe mpney each year, anothar 10 kr so
that hold the llne, and eceryone qlse loses. It'x the last group tjat ace
fl
bit of a dick move. ~~~ jimwalsh Their game (Infinite) a flop (AAA units). Two control the and with those of results (huge team of 300 that took six plus years to create Infinite) you can imagine they weren't up to do another title. So Ken did what he could so that of studio stay ~~~ scott_s I disagree with your characterization of Bioshock Infinite as a "flop." Usually, calling something "flop" means that it was _wildly_ unsuccessful. Infinite not have re-couped its but it was not wildly That be selling say, units. in mind this a semantic distinction, and not a value judgement of the game itself.) ~~~ kosei The last game studio published years ago Bioshock 2007; 2 was shipped studio. If they had 100+ employees a AAA game studio), they could have incurred costs of for the game's development. Which could be considered a failure in the eyes of game that only shipped 4MM games. ~~~ antimagic Sure, but just look at the numbers firstly boost the number 300 employees, not I that's to with an salary of around $60k. That puts salaries at about $180m. But, sold 4 million copies at about $60 each, which makes Allowing a decent ad you're still looking at back the envelope break-even. OK, that might that, it's money to mean that live to fight another day, another crack at hitting As others have noted, AAA games are hit-based You pretty much have a few (3-5) that make all of the money each year, another 10 or so hold the everyone else loses. It's the last group that fl
 bit of a dick move.

~~~
jimwalsh
Not Really. TheiR last GamE (InFiNite) Was a Flop (AAA game thaT Only Sold 4m
units). Take Two contrOl the MoNEy, anD WiTh thoSe kinds OF rESUltS (hUgE teAm
OF 300 sOmethIng, That tooK six plus yeArs To Create InfiniTE) yOu can imagiNe
tHey weren't linIng Up to do AnOthER titlE. So ken diD what hE Could sO that
some Of THe studIO would sTAY aLive.

~~~
Scott_s
I disagree wiTH yOUr characterizaTion of biOShOCK InFinIte as a "flop."
usUally, CAlling sOMeTHINg a "FLop" means that iT was _wildly_ uNSucCessfuL.
INfiNIte may Not haVe RE-coUped its inveStmeNt, but it waS not wiLDly
unsuCCessful. that woUld Be sElliNG uNdEr, sAy, 100,000 UNitS.

(keEp iN MinD this is a SeMaNtic dIstiNCTIOn, anD noT a vaLue juDgement of the
gAme ItseLF.)

~~~
koSei
ThE last Game ThAt stuDio pubLisheD wAs 6 years ago - BioshOck iN 2007;
Bioshock 2 Was ShIppEd By anoTHer stuDio. if tHey had 100+ eMployeeS (Not
UnREASoNable for a AAA game stUdIO), ThEy could hAve incURrEd PErsonnel CoSts
Of $60M+ fOR The gaMe's dEVeLopment. WHich coULd DeFinitelY bE consiDeRed A
faIlure IN the Eyes of A game thaT only SHipped 4MM games.

~~~
aNTimagic
Sure, buT JuST LoOK at tHe nUmbers - let's fIrstLY booSt thE NuMbeR To 300
empLoyeeS, nOT 100, I THink that's closer to reAl, With an EveraGe salary of
aroUnd $60k. That puTS SAlaries aT aboUT $180m. bUt, they sold 4 millIon
coPies at abouT $60 Each, whicH makeS $240m profit. allowing fOR A decent aD
spEnd, You'Re sTILl Looking at a bacK OF the EnVelope bReaK-even. OK, i geT
thAt iNveStOrs might bE bummed aBoUt ThAt, But It's enOUgh money To MeaN tHat
They lIVe to fiGht anOtheR dAy, HAve Another CRaCK At hiTtInG it oUt oF tHe
parK.

As oTHerS have noTed, AAA gamEs aRE hit-BaSeD proposItions. You pretTy Much
have a fEw (3-5) TitLes thaT MAke all of The money each year, another 10 OR so
that HolD the lIne, aNd everyonE elSe loseS. It'S The lasT group That aRe
Fl
 bit of a dick move.

~~~jimwalsh
N ot re all y.Th eirlast  game (Infinit e ) wa s a flop (AAA game tha t onl ys old4 munits ). Take Tw o con tr ol  th em on ey, a ndwith th ose kindsofre sults (huget ea m
of 300 s ome thing, thattoo k sixpl usy earstocreat e Infi n ite) y ou can im ag i ne
the y  weren' t li ning  up to do another ti t le. So Ken did  whathe co u l d s o t hat
some o fthe s t udio wo u ld s t aya live.

~~~
sc ott_s
I dis a gre e with  y our charac teriz at i onof Bioshock  Inf inite asa "flo p ."
Usua l ly, cal ling s ome thi ng a "f lo p"me a nst ha t i t  wa s _wildl y_  u nsucc essf u l . Infi nit e ma y not  have re-coup editsi nve stmen t, bu t it  w as no t wild ly
un su ccessful. Thatwoul d be sell ing  u nde r,  say, 100,00 0 u nit s.

(Ke ep in m i ndth i s is  a semantic distin ct i o n,  and not  a val u eju d gement o fthe 
gam e itsel f.)~~ ~
koseiThe la s tga me that  s tudiopu bli she d was 6 ye ars ag o - Bios hocki n 2007;
Biosho c k 2 was shipp e db y  a n othe r s tudio. If t heyh ad 1 00+e mp loy e es (n ot
un re a so n able for a AAA game  s tudio) , the y could haveincurred p e r s onnel co stso f$ 60M+ for the g ame's  developme n t. Which  coul d defini tely be c o n sidereda
f ail ure  in t he  eyes of a ga m e  tha tonly sh ipp ed 4MMgam es. 

~ ~~an timagic
S ure, but  j us tlo okat th e  numbers  -  le t' s f irstl y  boost  thenumb er  t o  30 0
emplo y ee s ,  not  1 00 , Ithi nk  that 's c l ose r to re al, withane vera ge  s alary o f
around $60k .That putssa lar ies at a bout $18 0m. But, they sold 4 mi l lion
co pie s atabou t $60 eac h,whichmak e s $240 m prof it. A ll owi n g  fora de cen tad
spend,y o u'r e sti ll  loo king at  a back of the env e lop e break-even.  OK , Ig e ttha t  i n ves to r s m i g ht be bummed ab out that,bu t  i t's enough mon ey  to mea n thattheyl ive tofight ano ther day,  h avea n oth er crack a t hittin g it outo f the pa rk.
Asothers  h ave  note d, AAA gam es ar e hit- ba sed pr oposi ti ons. You  pretty much
have a few  (3-5)  titl esthat make  al l  of  the mone y ea ch year, a not her  10 o r s o 
that  hol d  t hel ine,ande veryone e l se  lo s e s.  It's the l a s t  gr oup t hat are
fl 
 bit_of a_dick move.

~~~
jimwalsh
Not really. Their_last game_(Infinite)_was a_flop_(AAA game that_only sold 4m
units)._Take Two control the_money, and with_those_kinds of results (huge team
of 300 something, that took six plus years to create_Infinite)_you can_imagine
they_weren't_lining up to do another_title. So Ken did what_he could_so that
some of the studio would stay alive.

~~~
scott_s
I_disagree_with your characterization_of Bioshock Infinite as a "flop."
Usually, calling something a_"flop" means that it was _wildly__unsuccessful.
Infinite may not_have_re-couped_its investment, but it_was not wildly
unsuccessful. That would be_selling under, say, 100,000 units.

(Keep in_mind this is a semantic distinction, and_not a value judgement of the
game_itself.)

~~~
kosei
The last game that studio_published was_6 years ago - Bioshock_in 2007;
Bioshock 2_was shipped_by another studio._If they had 100+ employees (not
unreasonable_for a AAA_game studio), they could have incurred_personnel_costs
of $60M+ for_the_game's_development. Which_could definitely be_considered_a
failure in_the_eyes of a game that only_shipped_4MM games.

~~~
antimagic
Sure, but just look at the_numbers - let's firstly_boost_the number to 300
employees,_not 100, I think that's_closer to real, with an everage_salary of
around_$60k. That_puts salaries at about $180m. But, they sold 4 million
copies at_about $60 each, which makes $240m_profit. Allowing for a_decent ad
spend,_you're_still looking at_a_back of_the envelope break-even. OK, I get
that investors_might be_bummed about that, but it's enough_money to mean that
they_live_to fight another day, have another_crack at hitting it out of_the
park.

As others have noted, AAA_games_are_hit-based propositions. You pretty much
have_a few (3-5) titles that make_all of the_money each year, another 10 or so
that_hold_the line, and everyone else loses._It's_the last group that are
fl