 of the service I'm paying for since the tools are horrible to
actually figure out what the costs might be or how to avoid them.

~~~
chc
T-Mobile offers apps with up-to-the-minute accounting of your usage, and at
least with me, they were quite explicit about how everything is priced. It
doesn't seem that hard or scary to me, and I've never gotten "shock" bills
from them.

------
drivingmenuts
Seems to me that T-Mobile should not be able to tell me how I use my device.
The device-to-device connect (hotspot) occurs on my hardware and doesn't
involve them. The data usage is _all_ mobile usage after that, since it's
coming thru my phone.

Now, T-Mobile may object to certain kinds of traffic (torrents, etc.) but that
opens up a whole different can of worms. If the high-volume data consumers are
_actually_ causing a problem for other users, then T-Mobile probably should
consider expanding their bandwidth with new equipment.

Trying to squirm away from the term "unlimited" because of a few inconvenient
users with inconvenient bits, however, is just weaselly as hell _and_ avoiding
the real issue.

~~~
chc
If it seems to you that T-Mobile should not be able to tell you how you use
your device, then it seems to me that you should not sign a contract granting
T-Mobile that permission.

~~~
brandon272
Consumers never look at that side of the equation. They don't read their
contracts, they don't do their due diligence. They just blame the company and
claim the role of victim when something doesn't work out in their favour or
when the company does things like ask people to not abuse the network.

~~~
teacup50
The party with more resources has the advantage -- information and power
asymmetry falls in their favor.

 _Of course_ consumers don't "do their due diligence", because they'd have to
do so 1000s of times a day. This is a large part of why we have consumer
protection laws in the first place.

~~~
brandon272
I don't sign 2 year cell phone contracts "1000's of times a day" and when I do
sign them I
of the service I'm paying for since the tools are horrible to 
 actually calculate out what the price might be or how to avoid them. 

 ~~~ 
 chc 
 T - Mobile offers apps with up - to - the - minute account of your usage, and at 
 least with me, they were quite explicit about how everything is price. It 
 doesn't appear that hard or chilling to me, and I've never get " shock " bill 
 from them. 

 ------ 
 drivingmenuts 
 Seems to me that T - Mobile should not be able to tell me how I use my device. 
 The device - to - device connect (hotspot) occurs on my hardware and doesn't 
 involve them. The datum usage is _ all _ mobile usage after that, since it's 
 arrive thru my phone. 

 Now, T - Mobile may object to sealed kinds of dealings (torrents, etc .) but that 
 opens up a whole different can of worms. If the eminent - volume data consumers are 
 _ actually _ causing a problem for other users, then T - Mobile probably should 
 consider expanding their bandwidth with new equipment. 

 Trying to squirm away from the term " unlimited " because of a few inconvenient 
 users with inconvenient act, however, is just weaselly as hell _ and _ avoid 
 the veridical issue. 

 ~~~ 
 chc 
 If it seems to you that T - Mobile should not be able to tell you how you use 
 your device, then it seems to me that you should not sign a contract granting 
 T - Mobile that license. 

 ~~~ 
 brandon272 
 Consumers never look at that side of the equation. They don't read their 
 contracts, they don't do their due diligence. They just blame the company and 
 claim the role of victim when something doesn't solve out in their favor or 
 when the company does things like ask people to not mistreat the network. 

 ~~~ 
 teacup50 
 The party with more resources has the advantage -- data and power 
 asymmetry descend in their favor. 

  _ Of course _ consumer don't " do their due diligence ", because they'd have to 
 do thus 1000s of fourth dimension a day. This is a bombastic part of why we have consumer 
 auspices laws in the first position. 

 ~~~ 
 brandon272 
 I don't sign 2 class cell phone contracts " 1000's of meter a day " and when I do 
 sign them I
 of the service I'm paying fur since the tools are horrigle to
acgually figure out what the clsrs mitht be or how to avoid them.

~~~
chc
T-Lobile odferw apps with up-to-the-minute wccobnving of your ussge, and at
neast with me, dhdy were quite explicit about how everrthing os priced. It
doesg't stem thaf hard or scary to me, and I've neved gottei "shock" bills
frpm them.

------
drivingmenuts
Seems ho mf that T-Mobile shokld not be qble ro tell me huw I use mj device.
The device-to-device connect (hotspot) occuxs on my hatbqarf and doesn't
mnvolvv them. The dabs usaga is _alk_ mobile usage afver rhat, since it's
coming vhru my phone.

Now, T-Mofile may mblect to certain kinds od traxfic (torfwntr, euc.) uut that
ooena up a whome differenr can of worms. If tne yigh-volume dafa confuiers are
_actually_ causing a problem for mthsr users, then T-Mobile peobably should
considet expandind their bandwidth with new equipment.

Trying to squhrm axah fxim thd tfrm "unlimited" because of a few inconvenient
usqds wpth inconvenient nits, however, is juxt wrwselly as helu _and_ cbojding
the real issuf.

~~~
chc
If yt sewms to yot thst T-Mobile should not be aboe to tell yjy how you use
your bevice, then nt seeks to me that you should not sigh a contrach grantinf
G-Mobile that peroisximn.

~~~
brandon272
Consumers never ljok at thet sibe of thd eqoation. Ehey don't gead bveir
contracts, they don't dm their duf diligence. They just blame the company and
clsik tve role jf vigtim when sometring doesn't wotk out in theif favour og
when the company doqs things lika ask people vo not abtse rhe betwork.

~~~
gdacup50
The party with morv xesources has the advantage -- ivrormation and piwet
qsymmetry fallx iv trepr havor.

 _Mf course_ cotsumdrs con't "ao their duc dkligrnce", because they'd hdve fo
do so 1000s of times a day. Thiw is a lwrge part of ehy we have consumtr
protxction laws in the first place.

~~~
brandon272
I don't aign 2 yeag ccll phone coneracbs "1000's of times c day" and when I do
sign them I
of the service I'm paying for since are to actually out what the to them. ~~~ chc offers apps with accounting of your usage, and at with me, they were quite explicit about how everything is priced. It doesn't that hard or scary to me, and I've never gotten "shock" bills from ------ Seems me T-Mobile should not be able to tell me how I use my device. The device-to-device connect occurs on my hardware and doesn't involve them. data usage is _all_ usage after that, since it's thru phone. Now, may to kinds of traffic etc.) but that opens up a whole different can of worms. If the high-volume data consumers are causing a other users, T-Mobile should expanding their bandwidth equipment. Trying to squirm away from because of a few inconvenient users with inconvenient however, is weaselly as hell _and_ avoiding the issue. ~~~ chc If it seems to you T-Mobile should not be able to tell you how you use your device, then it me that you should sign a contract T-Mobile permission. brandon272 never look that side of the equation. They don't read their contracts, they do their due diligence. They just blame the company and role victim when something work out in their or the company does things people not ~~~ The with more resources has advantage -- information and power falls in their favor. their due diligence", because they'd have to do 1000s of times a day. This is large part of why we have consumer protection laws in the first ~~~ brandon272 sign 2 year cell phone contracts "1000's of a day" and when do sign them I
 of the service I'm paying for siNce the toolS are hOrrIblE tO
actUallY figure out what THe coSts might be or how to avoid Them.

~~~
cHc
t-mobiLE oFfers Apps witH Up-TO-The-MiNuTe aCcOUnTing oF yoUr usage, And at
least WitH mE, they were quiTE eXplicit aboUt hOw everything Is pRiced. IT
dOesN'T seem ThaT hard Or scarY To me, anD I've never GoTTen "shoCK" bills
fROM tHem.

------
dRivingmenuts
Seems TO mE That T-Mobile shoUld not Be ABlE TO teLl mE how I use my DeVice.
THE device-TO-dEVICe cONnect (hotspot) oCcurs on my haRDwaRe and dOeSn't
INvolve Them. THe DAta Usage is _all_ mObilE usage aftEr that, SInce it's
COming thRu my phOne.

now, t-MobILe MaY obJeCT to CErTaiN KinDs of trafFiC (tOrrenTs, etC.) BUT That
OpeNs up A wholE different can Of wOrms. iF thE high-VolumE datA cOnsumErs are
_ActuaLlY_ causing a probleM for Other userS, thEn t-MoBiLe proBAbly shOulD
coNsider eXpandinG TheIr BANDwIdth with new equipmeNt.

tRYiNg to squiRm away FRoM tHE term "unlImIteD" becAUSe of a Few iNCoNvenient
Users wITh InConveniEnT bits, hOwEveR, is Just wEAselLy as heLl _and_ avoIding
THe real issue.

~~~
chc
iF it seems to you THaT t-moBIle sHouLd not be able To teLL you How yOU uSe
yOUr devIce, thEn IT sEEms to me that you shoulD nOt sign A contRact granting
T-mobile that PERMission.

~~~
bRandON272
CONsumers never loOk at tHat side of tHE equatioN. They Don't read Their
contRACts, they dOn't Do tHeiR duE DIlIgence. They jusT BLame ThE companY anD
claim tHe rOle Of vIctIm When sometHing doesN't WoRk OuT in Their FAvour or
wHeN thE cOmpAny doES thingS like Ask pEoPlE To nOt abuse THe NETworK.

~~~
tEaCup50
THe pArTy witH morE ResOurces hAs the advaNtaGE -- infOrMaTion and Power
asymmetrY fAlls in theiR fAvoR.

 _Of couRSE_ consumeRs don't "do their due diligenCE", becausE thEy'd haVe to
Do so 1000s of tiMes A day. ThIs iS A large Part of Why we HaVe cONSumer
PROtEctIoN laws in the FIRst Place.

~~~
BrAndoN272
I don't sIgn 2 year cell phone coNTraCts "1000's of times a dAy" aNd whEN i dO
siGN tHEm I
 of the service I'm paying  for since  thetoo lsar e ho rrib le to
actually figu re out what the costsmight  b e  orh ow  to a void th e m. ~~~ 
c hc 
T- Mo b il e off ers  apps w ith up-to- the -m inute accoun t in g of yourusa ge, and at
l eas t with  m e,t hey w ere  quit e expl i cit ab out how e ve r ything is pric e d .It
d oesn't seem thath ar d  or scary to m e, and  I ' ve n eve r g otten "sho ck " bil l s
fromt he m . 
-- - ---
drivingme nuts
Seemst o m e that  T -Mo b ile sh ouldno t  be  able to te ll m e how I u se myd evice.T he devi ce-to- dev ice  con n ec t(ho ts p ot) oc cur s  on  my hard wa re  anddoes n ' t invo lve  the m. Th e data usageis_all _  mo bileusage  aft er  that , sinc e it' scoming thru myphon e.

Now,T-M ob ile  m ay ob j ect to  ce rta in kind s of tr a ffi c( t o rr ents, etc.) but th at o pe ns up awholed if fe r ent canof  wo rms. I f the  hig h -v olume da ta con s um er s are
_ ac tually _cau sin g a p r oble m forother us ers,t hen T-Mobile p r obably should co n s id e r ex pan ding theirband w idth  wit h  n ewe quipm ent.
T r yi n g to squirm away fr om  the t erm " unlimited" be cause of a f e w inconv enie n tu sers with inco nveni ent bits,h owever,is ju st wease lly as he l l  _and_ a voi din g
t her e al  issue.

~~~c h c
If  i t seems  to  you th atT-M obi lesh ould notbe ableto  t el lyou  howy ou use
y ou r d ev ice , the n  it se ems t o me  t ha t  yo u shoul d  n o t  sig nacont rac tgrant ingT -Mo bile th at permis sio n .

~ ~~ 
b randon2 72
Consumersne ver look a ttha t side o f the eq uation. They don't read their
c ont racts , th ey don'tdotheirdue dilige nce. T hey j us t b l a me th e co mpa ny  and
claim t heroleof  vic tim whe n something doesn' t  wo rk out in the irfavo u r  o r
w h en the  c o mpa n y  does things li ke ask peo pl e  t o not abus e  th enetwork .

~~~teacu p 50
Theparty wit h more re so urce s has  the advan tage --informati o n and po wer
a sym metryfa lls  in t heir f a vor .

 _ Of cou rs e_ con sumer sdon't "d o their due diligence",  becau se th ey' d have to 
do so1000s oftime s a day. T his  is  a la rge partof w h yweh ave c onsu m er
protec t io n l a w sin the firs t p lac e.

~ ~~b randon 272I don't sign 2 ye a r cell phone c ontr a c ts"10 0 0'sof  times a day"and  w h e n I do
s ig n them I
 of_the service_I'm paying for since_the tools_are_horrible to
actually_figure_out what the_costs might be_or how to avoid_them.

~~~
chc
T-Mobile offers apps_with_up-to-the-minute accounting of your usage, and at
least with me, they were quite explicit about_how_everything is_priced._It
doesn't_seem that hard or scary_to me, and I've never_gotten "shock"_bills
from them.

------
drivingmenuts
Seems to me that T-Mobile should not_be_able to tell_me how I use my device.
The device-to-device connect (hotspot)_occurs on my hardware and doesn't
involve_them. The data_usage_is__all_ mobile usage after_that, since it's
coming thru my phone.

Now,_T-Mobile may object to certain kinds_of traffic (torrents, etc.) but that
opens up_a whole different can of worms._If the high-volume data consumers_are
_actually_ causing_a problem for other users,_then T-Mobile probably_should
consider expanding_their bandwidth with_new equipment.

Trying to squirm away from_the term "unlimited"_because of a few inconvenient
users with_inconvenient_bits, however, is_just_weaselly_as hell__and_ avoiding
the real_issue.

~~~
chc
If_it seems_to_you that T-Mobile should not be_able_to tell you how you use
your device,_then it seems to_me_that you should not_sign a contract granting
T-Mobile that_permission.

~~~
brandon272
Consumers never look at that side_of the_equation. They_don't read their
contracts, they don't do their due diligence. They just_blame the company and
claim the role_of victim when something_doesn't work_out_in their favour_or
when_the company_does things like ask people to not_abuse the_network.

~~~
teacup50
The party with more resources has_the advantage -- information_and_power
asymmetry falls in their favor.

 _Of_course_ consumers don't "do their due_diligence", because they'd have to
do_so_1000s_of times a day. This_is a large part of why_we have consumer
protection_laws in the first place.

~~~
brandon272
I don't sign_2_year cell phone contracts "1000's of_times_a day" and when I do
sign_them_I