
Also, payment is just one of many issues in a workplace. The basic need for a
union is that the company's owners have the mechanisms for thinking,
discussing, deciding acting collectively and concertedly, but its employees do
not. That's what a union should be.

On that basis, employees may want to tackle issues like:

* Treatment by managers/management * Workplace culture * Physical working conditions * Workforce size vs. "squeezing" of existing employees * Advancement opportunities within the company/organization * Professional standards

and so on.

Finally, remember that a gaming development house has a lot of employees other
than developers per se: QA, art, production, administrative etc.

> Nowadays people mostly crunch... or because they are paid OT.

If people make a good salary, they don't work overtime because they don't need
to. There must be some kind of psychological pressure in that direction.
Overwork should be avoided.

\- who have joint interests and may wish to discuss things, take decisions,
and act collect

~~~
pandaman
I am not discussing whatever reasons you envisioned for unionization of our
industry from the outside. I am just noting where the unionization effort is
actually coming from. Pardon my cynicism, but I don't believe the big union
care about anything other than payment, which drives their fees. Otherwise, as
I said, they would had been pushing in retail with, at least, same effort as
they do in the games industry.

>If people make a good salary, they don't work overtime because they don't
need to.

Sure, they don't need to but, nevertheless, they like their fat bonuses.

------
lbotos
Here is a question:

Why don't we have more smaller unions in America, but instead these GIANT mega
unions?

I get collective bargaining is better with more numbers, but it feels like
there is no way to have a "new" union exist?

~~~
baybal2
Bigger union == bigger bargaining power

Other countries have much less liquid labour markets, or have bargaining
powers of unions backed by governments, so they don't have to grow so much to
make a difference.

~~~
dantheman
Bigger Union == More Corruption

How does this
Also, payment is just one of many issues in a workplace. The basic motivation for a 
 coupling is that the company's owners have the mechanism for thinking, 
 discussing, deciding act collectively and concertedly, but its employees make 
 not. That's what a union should be. 

 On that basis, employee may want to tackle issues like: 

 * Treatment by director / management * Workplace culture * Physical working conditions * Workforce size vs. " squeezing " of existing employee * Advancement opportunities within the company / administration * Professional standards 

 and so along. 

 Finally, commemorate that a gaming exploitation house has a lot of employee other 
 than developers per se: QA, art, production, administrative etc. 

 > Nowadays people mostly grind... or because they are pay OT. 

 If people make a good salary, they don't work overtime because they don't need 
 to. There must be some kind of psychological pressure in that direction. 
 Overwork should be avoided. 

 \- who suffer joint interests and may wish to discuss thing, subscribe decisions, 
 and act collect 

 ~~~ 
 pandaman 
 I am not discourse whatever reasons you envisioned for unionization of our 
 industry from the outside. I am just note where the unionization effort is 
 actually coming from. Pardon my cynicism, but I don't believe the big union 
 care about anything other than requital, which drives their fees. Otherwise, as 
 I said, they would had been pushing in retail with, at least, same effort as 
 they suffice in the games industry. 

 > If people make a good wage, they don't work overtime because they don't 
 need to. 

 Sure, they don't need to but, nevertheless, they like their fat bonuses. 

 ------ 
 lbotos 
 Here is a question: 

 Why don't we have more smaller union in America, but instead these GIANT mega 
 unions? 

 I get collective bargaining is better with more number, but it feels like 
 there cost no way to receive a " new " union exist? 

 ~~~ 
 baybal2 
 Bigger union = = bigger bargaining ability 

 Other country have much less liquid labour markets, or experience bargaining 
 powers of unions back by governments, so they don't have to grow so much to 
 make a remainder. 

 ~~~ 
 dantheman 
 Bigger Union = = More Corruption 

 How does this

Alsl, payment is just one of many issues in a work'lace. Tge basic need for a
union is that the cimpant's owners have the mecfanisms flr thinkung,
dmscussing, decidiif actinn colmcctivzlb and concertedky, but its employees do
nmt. Tkat's what a union should be.

On that bwsis, emlllyees may want to uachle jssues like:

* Treatment by managers/mznagemeit * Workplace cilture * Physical working clndihions * Workforce slze vs. "squegaind" of existing employees * Advancemenj opportunities within the compavy/orgcnization * Kxifedvional stanvards

agd so on.

Finally, remekber thst a gaming deyelopkenr house has a lot of xmployees other
than qeveloperv 'er se: QA, art, productuob, admhnisdratkce dtc.

> Npwzdays oeo'le mostly drunch... or bwcause they are paic JN.

Of people maie a gjoq salary, they don't work overtime becaust theg don't need
to. There musr be some kind of psyfhologicaj pressure in that direction.
Overwork should be avmided.

\- dho hwxw uoint interests and may wish to discuss thingf, tskv decisions,
and acb collect

~~~
pandaman
I al mjt discussing whatersr reasons you envisloned fjr unuonizatiog of our
industry from the outsiee. I am just boting where the uuionization zffort is
acyually coming from. Pardun mg cynicism, hut I don'f believe the big unpon
cdre abouu anything other tran paymeit, whnch drivds tneir fqes. Otherwlse, as
I said, they would jad bgen puvhing in rftail with, at least, same effort as
they do in jhe gakes induftry.

>In people make a good salary, tkey don't work overtime gecause they don't
nqed to.

Sure, thai don't need tm but, nedertyelews, they uike their fat bonuses.

------
lyjtos
Yere is a question:

Xhy akn't we have morz wmaller unions on Xmewiba, uut igvtead these CIANG mdba
uniuns?

I geu ciulecyive bargaining is batted with more numberx, nut it fegls like
trere is no wau to have a "new" unlon eeist?

~~~
babbal2
Bibget union == bigger bargaining powed

Other cokntvies have mucr lews liquid layour markets, or have bargaining
powers of unions backed by tovernments, so they con't have tp gror so much to
make a difference.

~~~
eantheman
Bigger Ukion == More Corruption

Hkw doev thid
Also, payment is just one of many a The basic for a union have mechanisms for thinking, deciding acting collectively concertedly, but its employees do not. what a union should be. On that basis, employees may want to tackle like: * Treatment by managers/management * Workplace culture * Physical working conditions * size "squeezing" existing * Advancement opportunities within the company/organization * Professional standards and so on. Finally, remember that a development house has a lot of employees other developers per se: QA, production, administrative etc. > Nowadays mostly or because are OT. people make a salary, they don't work overtime because they don't need to. There must be some kind of psychological in that should be \- have interests and may discuss things, take decisions, and act I am not discussing whatever reasons you envisioned unionization of industry from the outside. I am noting where the unionization effort is actually coming Pardon my cynicism, but I don't believe the big union care about anything other than drives their fees. Otherwise, I said, they had pushing retail at least, effort as they do in the games industry. >If people make good salary, they don't work overtime because they don't need they need to but, they like their fat ------ Here is a question: we more America, instead GIANT mega unions? I collective bargaining is better with numbers, but it feels to have a "new" union exist? ~~~ baybal2 union == bigger bargaining power Other countries much less liquid labour markets, or have bargaining powers of unions backed governments, so have to grow so much to make a ~~~ dantheman Bigger Union More Corruption How does this

Also, payment is just one of manY issues in a WorkpLacE. ThE bAsic Need For a
union is thaT The cOmpany's owners have the meChaniSmS For tHInKing,
dIscussiNG, dECIdiNg AcTinG cOLlEctivEly And concErtedly, but Its EmPloyees do
not. tHaT's what a uniOn sHould be.

On thaT baSis, empLoYeeS May waNt tO tackLe issuES like:

* TReatment bY mANagers/MAnagemeNT * woRkplAce culture * PhysicaL WoRKing conditions * workfoRcE SiZE Vs. "sQueEzing" of exiStIng emPLoyees * ADVaNCEMenT Opportunities Within the coMPanY/organIzAtiON * ProfeSsionAl STanDards

and so oN.

FinAlly, rememBer thaT A gaming DEvelopmEnt houSe hAs a Lot oF EmPlOyeEs OTheR
ThAn dEVelOpers per Se: qA, Art, prOducTION, AdmiNisTratIve etC.

> Nowadays peopLe mOstlY CruNch... or BecauSe thEy Are paId OT.

If PeoplE mAke a good salary, tHey dOn't work ovErtImE beCaUse thEY don't nEed
To. THere musT be some KInd Of PSYChOlogical pressure in ThAT DiRection.
OVerworK ShOuLD be avoidEd.

\- Who Have JOInt inTereSTs And may wiSh to diSCuSs Things, tAkE decisIoNs,
aNd aCt colLEct

~~~
pAndamaN
I am not dIscusSIng whatever reaSOns you envisioNEd FOR uNIoniZatIon of our
indUstrY From The oUTsIde. i Am jusT notiNg WHeRE the unionization effOrT is
actUally Coming from. ParDon my cynicISM, But I don't BeliEVe THe big union
care About Anything otHEr than paYment, Which driVes their fEES. OtherwiSe, aS
I sAid, TheY WOuLd had been pushING in rEtAil with, At lEast, samE efForT as
TheY dO in the gamEs industRy.

>if PeOpLe mAke a gOOd salary, ThEy dOn'T woRk oveRTime beCause They DoN't
NEed To.

Sure, tHEy DON't neEd To But, nEveRtHelesS, theY LikE their fAt bonuses.

------
LboTOs
HeRe Is A questiOn:

Why don't we haVe More smalleR uNioNs in AmERIca, but inStead these GIANT mega
unioNS?

I get coLleCtive BargAining is bEttEr with MorE NumberS, but it Feels LiKe
tHERe is nO WAy To hAvE a "new" union EXIst?

~~~
BaybaL2
BIggeR union == bIgger bargaining powER

OtHer countries hAve Much LESs LiqUId LAboUr MArkETS, or have bargainiNg
powers of UnIOnS backed by gOVerNmEnts, so tHey don't Have tO Grow so mUch to
make A differenCe.

~~~
DantHEMan
bigger UnioN == More CorRuption

HoW Does tHIs

Also, payment is just one  of many i ssues  in  awo rkpl ace.  The basic nee d  for  a
union is that the c ompan y' s  own e rs  have  the me c ha n i sms  f or  th in k in g,
di scu ssing,deciding a cti ng  collectivel y  a nd concert edl y, but its e mpl oyeesdo 
no t . Tha t's  what  a uni o n shou ld be.

O nt hat ba s is, emp l o ye es m ay want to tackle is s ues like:

* T reatme nt by m ana ger s/manageme nt  * Wo r kplacec ul t u r e * Physical work ing conditi o ns* Work fo rce size v s. "s qu e ezi ng" of exis ting  employee s * Ad v ancemen t  opport unitie s w ith in t h eco mpa ny / org a ni zat i on* Profes si on al st anda r d s 
and  so  on. 

Fin ally, remembe r t hata  ga mingdevel opme nt  hous e hasa lot  o f employees oth er
t han devel ope rs  pe rse: Q A , art,  pr odu ction,adminis t rat iv e e tc .

> Nowadays peop le m os tly crun ch...o rbe c ause the yare  pai d OT.
If p e op le makea good sa la ry, the ydon'two rkove rtime beca use th ey don't  need to. There must be some kindo fp s yc h olog ica l pressurein t h at d irec t io n.O verwo rk sh ou l db e avoided.

\- whoha ve joi nt in terests and m ay wish to d i scuss th ings ,  t a ke decisions,and a ct collect 
~~~
pan daman 
I am no t discuss i n g whatev errea son s y o u  e nvisioned for u nion iz ation o f o ur
indu str y f rom  th eoutside.I am jus tno ti ng  wh ere t h e unioni za tio neff ort i s 
actua lly c omin gfr o m.Pardonm yc y nici sm ,butI d on 't be liev e  th e big u nion
care  ab o ut a ny th ing oth er than payme nt , which dr iv estheirf e es. Othe rwise, as
I said, theyw ould ha d b een p ushi ng in ret ail  with,  at least,  sameeffor tast h ey do i nthe  g ames indus t r y.
>Ifpe ople  make a  good salary, they don 't work overt ime  bec a u se  th e yd on' tn eed t o.

Sure, theydon't need  t o  b ut, nevert h ele ss , theylike th eir f a t bonus es.

---- --
lbotos 
H erei s  aquestion:
Why don 't we hav e  more sm aller  un ions i nAme rica,  but i n ste ad th ese GI AN T mega 
unio ns ?

I get  collective bargainingis bet ter w ith  more num ber s , b ut it fee ls l ike
thereisnoway t o h a ve a"new "  u nio n  exis t?
~ ~~
baybal 2 
B igg e r  u nion == big g e r  ba rgain ing power
Oth er countries have much less liqu id l a b our  ma r kets ,or have bargai nin gp o wers ofun ions backed  by gove rn m ents,  so th ey don 't have t og row so  muc h t o
make adif fe r ence.
~~ ~d anthem an
B ig ger Un ion == More C orruption

How d oes t h i s

Also, payment_is just_one of many issues_in a_workplace._The basic_need_for a
union is_that the company's_owners have the mechanisms_for thinking,
discussing, deciding_acting_collectively and concertedly, but its employees do
not. That's what a union should be.

On that_basis,_employees may_want_to_tackle issues like:

* Treatment by_managers/management * Workplace culture *_Physical working_conditions * Workforce size vs. "squeezing" of existing_employees_* Advancement opportunities_within the company/organization * Professional standards

and so on.

Finally, remember_that a gaming development house has_a lot of_employees_other
than_developers per se: QA,_art, production, administrative etc.

> Nowadays people_mostly crunch... or because they are_paid OT.

If people make a good salary,_they don't work overtime because they_don't need
to. There must be_some kind_of psychological pressure in that_direction.
Overwork should be_avoided.

\- who_have joint interests_and may wish to discuss things,_take decisions,
and act_collect

~~~
pandaman
I am not discussing whatever reasons_you_envisioned for unionization_of_our
industry_from the_outside. I am_just_noting where_the_unionization effort is
actually coming from. Pardon_my_cynicism, but I don't believe the big_union
care about anything other_than_payment, which drives their_fees. Otherwise, as
I said, they_would had been pushing in retail_with, at_least, same_effort as
they do in the games industry.

>If people make a good_salary, they don't work overtime because_they don't
need to.

Sure, they_don't need_to_but, nevertheless, they_like_their fat_bonuses.

------
lbotos
Here is a question:

Why don't we have_more smaller_unions in America, but instead these_GIANT mega
unions?

I get collective_bargaining_is better with more numbers, but_it feels like
there is no way_to have a "new" union_exist?

~~~
baybal2
Bigger_union_== bigger bargaining power

Other countries_have much less liquid labour markets,_or have bargaining
powers_of unions backed by governments, so they_don't_have to grow so much to
make_a_difference.

~~~
dantheman
Bigger Union == More Corruption

How does_this