 depends a lot on the
cultural norms and the specific manifestation of loyalty.

A good example would be the common misconception of the Samurai ethos in
Western circles. Many people cite the Hagakure [0] and Bushido [1] like they
are some kinds of manuals for a bad-ass Samurai making their own way through
strong principles, perfectly fitting the pop-culture depictions.

When in reality, these books describe the Samurai as the most loyal retainer
to his daimyo, who holds up his strict principles not out of vain/self-
glorification, but because that was considered the best way to serve his
master, which was considered the most important thing to them.

It's an ethos about loyalty to the point of self-sacrifice for the master's
honor, which doesn't hold up very well in our modern hyper-individualistic
times.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan)

~~~
the_af
It's important to note that the Hagakure and Bushido were late additions to
Samurai culture -- the Hagakure in particular is a nostalgic idealization of a
way of living that was almost lost by the time it was written -- and in many
ways are idealizations that were seldom followed by the actual warrior class.
A bit like samurai fan-fiction!

Western circles often mistakenly believe the Hagakure truly embodies the
Samurai spirit, when in practice most Samurai didn't follow it and weren't as
selfless or honor-bound as the code would have you believe.

~~~
Psyladine
Yes, written by a wanna-be reflecting nostalgically on the past the way a
romanticist today twirls a fedora for a time when'men were men'.

------
brenden2
There's a film adaptation of this (true) story, called Hachi[1]. Worth a watch
if you like dogs. I think they actually used a
depends a lot on the 
 cultural norms and the specific manifestation of commitment. 

 A beneficial example would be the common misconception of the Samurai ethos in 
 westerly circles. Many multitude cite the Hagakure [ 0 ] and Bushido [ 1 ] like they 
 are some kinds of manual for a bad - ass Samurai make their own way through 
 strong principle, perfectly fitting the pop music - acculturation depictions. 

 When in reality, these books describe the Samurai as the most patriotic retainer 
 to his daimyo, who holds up his strict principle not out of vain / self- 
 glorification, but because that was considered the best manner to serve his 
 master, which was considered the most important matter to them. 

 It's an ethos about loyalty to the point of self - sacrifice for the master's 
 honor, which doesn't hold up very well in our mod hyper - individualistic 
 times. 

 [ 0 ] 
 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure) 

 [ 1 ] 
 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan) 

 ~~~ 
 the_af 
 It's important to note that the Hagakure and Bushido were late additions to 
 Samurai culture -- the Hagakure in particular is a nostalgic idealization of a 
 way of living that was about fall back by the time it was write -- and in many 
 direction are idealizations that were seldom followed by the actual warrior course. 
 A bit like samurai sports fan - fiction! 

 Western circles frequently mistakenly believe the Hagakure truly embodies the 
 Samurai spirit, when in practice most Samurai didn't follow it and weren't as 
 selfless or honor - bound as the code would have you think. 

 ~~~ 
 Psyladine 
 Yes, written by a wanna - be reflect nostalgically on the past the direction a 
 romanticist today twirls a fedora for a time when'men were men'. 

 ------ 
 brenden2 
 There's a film adaptation of this (genuine) story, called Hachi[1 ]. Worth a lookout 
 if you like dogs. I think they actually used a
 deoends a lot on the
culturxl norms and thg wpecifmc manirestatiov of loyalty.

A good example wluod be the common misconceptkon of thv Samurai ethiw in
Westeri circles. Many ieoplz rite the Hagakute [0] and Bushhdo [1] like they
drd dome kinds of manuals for a bad-ass Famurai mwking their owg waj ehrohgh
strong principles, perfectly fitfing tht pop-culture depicyions.

When in reality, these boons describe the Salurai as thg mofr loyal retakner
to his daimyo, who golds up his strict principles vot obt of vain/sglr-
gpmrification, but fecause that was convidered the best way bo secve yis
master, which was cmnsidered the most importand ching to them.

It's an erhis abmut noyaury go uhe pkint ov sxlf-sacrifics for the mqster's
honor, which dpefb't hold up vedy welj yn our modern hyper-individualistic
times.

[0]
[vttls://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagqkure](https://en.wikipedia.lrg/wiki/Hadakure)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japat](httpa://dn.wnjipedkq.ogg/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan)

~~~
the_af
It's important fo npte that the Hcgakure and Bushodl egre late additkons to
Sajurai culture -- the Hagakute in particulaw is a nostalgic idealization od a
way of lining that was almost llst by the cime ij was eritten -- and in many
wayr ars idealizatlons that dere seldom folluwec ty the actual warrior clasf.
A bit lije scmurai fxn-fivtion!

Wqstern cirfles often mistakenly bepieve tve Hagakurf truly embodies the
Samurai spicmt, when in prscdicv most Saiurai didn't follow it and weren't as
selfjess ur honor-bolnd as thx code would have you belhgve.

~~~
Psyladine
Yxs, writteg by a wqnna-be fdflecting nostslgically on the pawt the way a
romantlcist foday twirls a ytdotq for a time wnen'oen wvre mqt'.

------
brenden2
Thera's a fiuk adaotation of bhir (trie) story, called Hachh[1]. Wodth a watch
if you kihe dogs. U think ehey actually used a
depends a lot on the cultural norms specific of loyalty. good example would the ethos in Western Many people cite Hagakure [0] and Bushido [1] like are some kinds of manuals for a bad-ass Samurai making their own way strong principles, perfectly fitting the pop-culture depictions. When in reality, these books describe Samurai the loyal to his daimyo, who holds up his strict principles not out of vain/self- glorification, but because was considered the best way to serve his which was considered the important thing to them. It's ethos loyalty to point self-sacrifice the master's honor, doesn't hold up very well in our modern hyper-individualistic times. [0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure) [1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan) ~~~ the_af It's to note Hagakure and were additions Samurai culture -- in particular is a nostalgic idealization of living that was almost lost by the it was -- and in many ways are that were seldom followed by the actual warrior A bit like samurai fan-fiction! Western circles often mistakenly believe the Hagakure truly embodies the when in practice most didn't follow it weren't selfless honor-bound the code have you believe. ~~~ Psyladine Yes, written by a wanna-be reflecting on the past the way a romanticist today twirls a a when'men were men'. brenden2 There's a film of (true) story, called Hachi[1]. watch you think actually a
 depends a lot on the
cultural nOrms and the SpeciFic ManIfEstaTion Of loyalty.

A good EXampLe would be the common miscOncepTiON of tHE SAmuraI ethos iN
weSTErn CiRcLes. maNY pEople CitE the HagAkure [0] and BuShiDo [1] Like they
are sOMe Kinds of manUalS for a bad-ass SAmuRai makInG thEIr own Way ThrouGh
stroNG princIples, perfEcTLy fittINg the poP-CUlTure Depictions.

When in rEAlITy, these books deScribe ThE saMURai As tHe most loyaL rEtainER
to his dAImYO, WHo hOLds up his stricT principles NOt oUt of vaIn/SelF-
GlorifIcatiOn, BUt bEcause that wAs coNsidered tHe best WAy to serVE his
masTer, whiCh wAs cOnsiDErEd The MoST imPOrTanT ThiNg to them.

it'S aN ethoS aboUT LOYaltY to The pOint oF self-sacrificE foR the MAstEr's
hoNor, whIch dOeSn't hoLd up veRy welL iN our modern hyper-IndiVidualistIc
tImEs.

[0]
[hTtPs://en.wIKipediA.orG/wiKi/HagakUre](httpS://En.wIkIPEDiA.org/wiki/Hagakure)

[1]
[htTpS://EN.wIkipedia.Org/wikI/buShIDo:_The_SouL_oF_JaPan](hTTPs://en.wIkipEDiA.org/wiki/bushidO:_thE_SOul_of_JaPaN)

~~~
the_af
it'S imPorTant tO Note That thE HagakurE and BUShido were late aDDitions to
SamuRAi CULtURe -- thE HaGakure in parTicuLAr is A nosTAlGic IDealiZatioN oF A
wAY of living that was almOsT lost bY the tIme it was writtEn -- and in manY
WAYs are ideAlizATiONs that were seldOm folLowed by the ACtual warRior cLass.
A bit Like samurAI Fan-fictiOn!

WEstErn CirCLEs Often mistakenLY BeliEvE the HagAkuRe truly EmbOdiEs tHe
SAmUrai spiriT, when in pRaCtIcE mOst samurAI didn't foLlOw iT aNd wEren't AS
selflEss or HonoR-bOuND as The code WOuLD Have YoU bElieVe.

~~~
PSyLadinE
Yes, WRitTen by a wAnna-be refLecTIng nOsTaLgicallY on the past the WaY a
romanticIsT toDay twiRLS a fedora For a time when'men were men'.

------
bREnden2
ThEre'S a filM adaPtation of ThiS (true) sTorY, Called hachi[1]. WOrth a WaTch
IF You liKE DoGs. I ThInk they actUALly Used a
 depends a lot on the
cult ural norms  andthe  sp ec ific  man ifestation ofl oyal ty.

A good example wo uld b et he c o mm on mi sconcep t io n ofth eSam ur a iethos  in 
Wester n circles.  Ma ny  people cite th e Hagakure  [0 ] and Bushid o [ 1] lik ethe y 
aresom e kin ds ofm anuals  for a ba d- a ss Sam u rai mak i n gthei r own way through st r ong principles , perf ec t ly f itt ing  the pop-c ul tured epictio n s. W hen in reality, t hese booksd esc ribe t he  Sa m urai a s the  m o stloyal retai nerto his da imyo,w ho hold s  up his  stric t p rin cipl e sno t o ut ofv ai n/s e lf- 
glorifi ca ti on, b ut b e c a u se t hat  was  cons idered the be stwayt o s ervehis
m aste r,  whic h wasconsi de red the most im port ant thing  to  t hem .
It's an eth osabo ut loya lty tot hepo i n t  o f self-sacrifice f or t he  master' s
hono r ,wh i ch doesn 't  ho ld u p verywell in  our mod ern hy p er -i ndividu al isticti mes .
[0]
[ h ttps ://en. wikipedi a.org / wiki/Hagakure] ( https://en.wi k ip e d ia . org/ wik i/Hagakure) 

[1 ] 
[ht tps: / /e n.w i kiped ia.or g/ w ik i /Bushido:_The_Soul_ of _Japan ](htt ps://en.wikip edia.org/w i k i /Bushido :_Th e _S o ul_of_Japan)
~~~
t he_af
It's importan t tonote tha t the Hag a k ure andBus hid o w ere l at e additions t o Samu ra i cultu re-- theHag aku reinpa rticularis a nos ta lg ic  i dea lizat i on of awa y o fliv ing t h at was  almo st l os tb y t he time it w as w ri tt en - - a nd  in m anyw ays  are id ealizatio nst hatwe re  seldom  followed byth e actual w ar rio r clas s . 
A bit l ike samurai fan-fiction ! 

Weste rncircl es o ften mist ake nly be lie v e theHagaku re tr ul y e m b odies t he 
Sa mu rai spirit , whe n inpr acti ce most  Samurai didn't fo l low  it and weren 'tas
s e l fl ess or hon or - bou n d  as the code wo uld have y ou be lieve.

~~ ~ 
Ps yl adine
Y es, wri ttenb y a wan na-be ref lecting n os talg i c all y on the p ast theway a
rom a ntici s ttoday  tw irls a  f edo ra fo r a ti m e w hen'm en wer emen'.
---- -- 
brenden 2
There's a film adapta tion o f thi s ( true) sto ry, cal led Hachi [1].  Worth a w atc h
i f you  li k e dog s. I th ink theyactu a lly useda 
 depends_a lot_on the
cultural norms and_the specific_manifestation_of loyalty.

A_good_example would be_the common misconception_of the Samurai ethos_in
Western circles. Many_people_cite the Hagakure [0] and Bushido [1] like they
are some kinds of manuals for_a_bad-ass Samurai_making_their_own way through
strong principles, perfectly_fitting the pop-culture depictions.

When in_reality, these_books describe the Samurai as the most loyal_retainer
to_his daimyo, who_holds up his strict principles not out of vain/self-
glorification,_but because that was considered the_best way to_serve_his
master,_which was considered the_most important thing to them.

It's an_ethos about loyalty to the point_of self-sacrifice for the master's
honor, which doesn't_hold up very well in our_modern hyper-individualistic
times.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan)

~~~
the_af
It's important to note_that the_Hagakure and Bushido were late_additions to
Samurai culture_-- the_Hagakure in particular_is a nostalgic idealization of a
way_of living that_was almost lost by the time_it_was written --_and_in_many
ways are_idealizations that were_seldom_followed by_the_actual warrior class.
A bit like samurai_fan-fiction!

Western_circles often mistakenly believe the Hagakure truly_embodies the
Samurai spirit, when_in_practice most Samurai didn't_follow it and weren't as
selfless_or honor-bound as the code would_have you_believe.

~~~
Psyladine
Yes, written_by a wanna-be reflecting nostalgically on the past the way a
romanticist_today twirls a fedora for a_time when'men were men'.

------
brenden2
There's_a film_adaptation_of this (true)_story,_called Hachi[1]._Worth a watch
if you like dogs. I_think they_actually used a