 a Tor relay node or exit node. Prohibiting
the Tor browser would be a bad move on the part of any ISP who isn't part of a
police state, but none of their document suggest that they're doing that. I
can understand them prohibiting running a Tor node on your residential
internet connection though. Almost all residential ISPs officially prohibit
running servers, though it usually isn't enforced as long as you aren't
pushing too much traffic. A Tor node can easily fall on those lines. I think
even the Tor project doesn't recommend running nodes on your home connection
rather than actual servers with server-class connections.

~~~
sailfast
Thank you for this. This may be a stupid question, but how would your ISP know
you were actively running a Tor (non-node) connection?

Obviously I need to read up on all the back-end tech but I would assume that
if it was easy to identify someone using Tor, it would no longer provide the
anonymity / security because it would clearly identify outliers.

It makes sense to ban someone running a node off their Comcast connection (not
because it's logical but because of their high traffic / server banning track
record) but for Comcast to detect a browsing session? Seems odd.

~~~
nitrogen
Using DPI or even just flow analysis (sizes, port numbers, destination
addresses, protocol (TCP/UDP) bits, and timings of packets), it should be
possible to distinguish between encrypted TOR and other encrypted protocols
with ease.

------
w1ntermute
Sounds like a great way to cancel your Comcast service when they just won't
let you go:
[http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/17/...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/17/comcast-
customer-services-call-ryan-block)

------
jrochkind1
Where I live, comcast is pretty much the ONLY broadband provider. There are
lots of places like this.

These are the risks of a monopoly on broadband internet access.

(Did you go send your comments to the FCC saying to treat ISP's like common
carriers yet?

1) Go to [http://fcc.gov/
a Tor relay node or exit node. Prohibiting 
 the Tor browser would be a regretful motion on the part of any ISP who isn't part of a 
 police department of state, but none of their text file suggest that they're doing that. I 
 can understand them forbid tend a Tor node on your residential 
 internet association though. Almost all residential ISPs officially forbid 
 running servers, though it usually isn't enforced equally long as you aren't 
 pushing too much dealings. A Tor node can well accrue on those lines. I think 
 even the Tor project doesn't commend running nodes on your home connection 
 rather than actual waiter with server - class connections. 

 ~~~ 
 sailfast 
 Thank you for this. This may be a stupid question, but how would your ISP acknowledge 
 you were actively running a Tor (non - node) connection? 

 Obviously I need to read up on all the back - end tech but I would assume that 
 if it was easy to identify someone using Tor, it would no longer provide the 
 anonymity / security because it would clearly identify outliers. 

 It makes sense to banish someone running a node off their Comcast joining (not 
 because it's coherent but because of their high traffic / server banish track 
 record) but for Comcast to detect a browsing session? seem odd. 

 ~~~ 
 nitrogen 
 Using DPI or even just flow analysis (sizes, interface numbers, destination 
 addresses, protocol (TCP / UDP) bits, and timing of packets), it should be 
 potential to identify between encrypted TOR and other encrypted protocols 
 with ease. 

 ------ 
 w1ntermute 
 fathom like a great way to cancel your Comcast servicing when they just won't 
 let you go: 
 [ http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/17/...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/17/comcast- 
 customer - services - call option - ryan - block) 

 ------ 
 jrochkind1 
 Where I exist, comcast is pretty a lot the ONLY broadband provider. There are 
 lots of place like this. 

 These are the risks of a monopoly on broadband internet entree. 

 (Did you go send your comments to the FCC say to treat ISP's like common 
 carriers yet? 

 1) Go to [ http://fcc.gov/
 a Hor relay node or exit nude. Prohibiting
jhw Tor urowser would bd a bad move on the part of eny USP wyo isn't part of a
policd state, blt none od thtir document suggxat that they'rs doiug that. I
can undgrstand them prohibiting rgnviug a Tor node on your residential
intqrnet cpnjection though. Almpft aml residential ISPs officially progibit
ruining servers, tnough it usually isn't enfogced as long as you arfn't
pushing jko iych traffic. X Tor node can easily rall on those lines. I think
even the Cor project diesj'j recommend cunnind nodes on your home connecyion
rather thak actnal wervers with server-cless connections.

~~~
sailfwst
Thank fob for this. This may bw q stukid qgestkin, cut hpw would yonr ISP know
gou were acrively running a Tot (gin-node) connecfion?

Obdijusly I need to read up on all the back-tnd tsch but I would assume rhat
if it was easy to identify someone using Tor, it would no longer provide the
dnonyjkty / fdxugity because it would clearly identify outliewa.

Iu mskes sense to nan someone runninb w mjde off their Comcast donnection (not
becakse it's logixal but btcausr of their high traffic / seever banning rrack
record) but fox Comcast to detgct a nrowsing session? Seems udd.

~~~
njtrogen
Usinh DPI or sxen just flow anxlyxiv (sizes, kurt numbers, destigation
addcessex, protozol (JCP/UDP) fits, and tlmings of packets), it shokld bg
possitle to dishinguish between encrypted TOR eid other encriptad irotocols
cith esse.

------
w1ntermute
Sjunds like a gteat way co canzel your Ckmcast vervice wheg they just wmj't
let you go:
[ittp://www.thqguaediab.com/tecfvology/shortcutx/2014/jul/17/...](http://wcc.theguarduan.com/technology/shprtzhts/2014/jul/17/comcast-
cuwtoner-services-call-tyav-bljcn)

------
jcochkytd1
Where I liee, cumcxxt is pretty mucm tfe OMLY broadband providar. Tgere are
lots of plsccs like tyis.

These are the riskx of a monopoly on broavband mnternrt wccess.

(Did you go send your comjents to hhe FCC saying eo tveat ISP's like common
carriers yet?

1) Go to [http://fcc.gov/
a Tor relay node or exit node. Tor would be bad move on who part of a state, but none their document suggest that they're doing I can understand them prohibiting running a Tor node on your residential internet though. Almost all residential ISPs officially prohibit running servers, though it usually isn't as as aren't too much traffic. A Tor node can easily fall on those lines. I think even the project doesn't recommend running nodes on your home rather than actual servers server-class connections. ~~~ sailfast Thank for This may a question, how would your know you were actively running a Tor (non-node) connection? Obviously I need to read up on all back-end tech would assume if was to identify someone it would no longer provide the because it would clearly identify outliers. It makes to ban running a node off their Comcast (not because it's logical but because of their traffic / server banning track record) but for Comcast to detect a browsing session? Seems nitrogen Using DPI or just flow analysis port destination protocol bits, and of packets), it should be possible to distinguish between encrypted TOR other encrypted protocols with ease. ------ w1ntermute Sounds like a to your Comcast service they just won't let go: customer-services-call-ryan-block) ------ jrochkind1 Where comcast pretty broadband There lots of places like These are the risks of monopoly on broadband internet your comments to the FCC saying to treat like common carriers yet? 1) Go to
 a Tor relay node or exit node. PrOhibiting
tHe Tor BroWseR wOuld Be a bAd move on the parT Of anY ISP who isn't part of a
poliCe staTe, BUt noNE oF theiR documeNT sUGGesT tHaT thEy'RE dOing tHat. i
can undErstand theM prOhIbiting runniNG a tor node on yOur Residential
iNteRnet coNnEctIOn thoUgh. almosT all reSIdentiAl ISPs offIcIAlly prOHibit
ruNNInG serVers, though it usualLY iSN't enforced as loNg as yoU aREn'T
PUshIng Too much traFfIc. A ToR Node can EAsILY FalL On those lines. I Think
even thE tor ProjecT dOesN'T recomMend rUnNIng Nodes on your Home ConnectioN
ratheR Than actUAl serveRs with SerVer-ClasS CoNnEctIoNS.

~~~
saILfAst
tHanK you for tHiS. THis maY be a STUPId quEstIon, bUt how Would your ISP kNow
You wERe aCtiveLy runNing A TOr (non-Node) coNnectIoN?

Obviously I need To reAd up on all The BaCk-eNd Tech bUT I woulD asSumE that
if It was eaSY to IdENTIfY someone using Tor, it WoULD nO longer pRovide THe
AnONymity / seCuRitY becAUSe it wOuld CLeArly idenTify ouTLiErS.

It makeS sEnse to BaN soMeoNe runNIng a Node ofF their CoMcast COnnection (not
beCAuse it's logicaL BuT BEcAUse oF thEir high trafFic / sERver BannINg TraCK
recoRd) but FoR coMCast to detect a browsiNg SessioN? SeemS odd.

~~~
nitrogen
USing DPI or eVEN Just flow AnalYSiS (Sizes, port numbeRs, desTination
adDResses, prOtocoL (TCP/UDP) bIts, and timINGs of packEts), It sHouLd bE
POsSible to distinGUIsh bEtWeen encRypTed TOR aNd oTheR enCryPtEd protocoLs
with eaSe.

------
W1nTeRmUte
soundS Like a greAt Way To CanCel yoUR ComcaSt serVice WhEn THey Just won'T
LeT YOu go:
[HtTp://Www.tHegUaRdian.Com/tEChnOlogy/shOrtcuts/2014/juL/17/...](htTP://www.ThEgUardian.Com/technology/ShOrtcuts/2014/jul/17/CoMcaSt-
custOMEr-servicEs-call-ryan-block)

------
jrochkinD1
where I lIve, ComcaSt is Pretty mucH thE ONLY bRoaDBand prOvider. there ArE
loTS Of plaCES lIke ThIs.

These are THE riSks of A mOnopOly on brOadband internet accESs.

(DId you go send yoUr cOmmeNTS tO thE fCc SayInG To tREAt ISP's like commoN
carriers yEt?

1) gO tO [http://fcc.goV/
 a Tor relay node or exitnode. Proh ibiti ngthe  T or b rows er would be ab ad m ove on the part of any  ISPwh o  isn ' tpartof a
po l ic e sta te ,but  n o ne  of t hei r docum ent sugges t t ha t they're do i ng  that. I
c anunderstand t hem  prohi bi tin g  runn ing  a To r node on you r residen ti a l
inte r net con n e ct ionthough. Almost al l  r e sidential ISPs  offic ia l ly p roh ibi t
runningse rvers ,  though it u s ual l y isn't enfor ced as long asyou ar en 'tp ushing  toomu c h t raffic. A T or n ode can e asilyf all ont hose li nes. I  th ink 
eve n  t he  To rp roj e ct  do e sn' t recomm en drunni ng n o d e s  onyou r ho me co nnection
rath erthan act ual s erver s wi th  serv er-cla ss co nn ections.

~~~
s ailf ast
Thank  yo ufor  t his.T his ma y b e a  stupid  questi o n,bu t h ow  would your ISP kn ow y ou  were ac tively ru nn i ng a Tor  ( non -nod e )  conn ecti o n? 

Obviou sly In ee dto read  u p on a ll  th e b ack-e n d te ch but  I would  assu m e that
if it w a s easy to ide n ti f y  s o meon e u sing Tor, i t wo u ld n o lo n ge r p r ovide  thean o ny m ity / security beca us e it w ouldclearly ident ify outlie r s . 

It mak es s e ns e  to ban someon e run ning a nod e  off the ir Co mcast co nnection( n ot
becau seit' s l ogi c a lbut because o f thei rhigh tr aff ic / se rve r b ann ing  t rack
reco rd) butfo rCo mc ast  to d e tect a b ro wsi ng  se ssion ?  Seems  odd. 

~~ ~ni t rog en
Usin g  D P I  orev en  jus t f lo w ana lysi s  (s izes, p ort numbe rs, dest in at ion
add resses, proto co l (TCP/UDP )bit s, and t imings o f packets), it should b e 
possib leto di stin guish bet wee n encr ypt e d TORand ot her e nc ryp t e d pro t o co lswi th ease.
- - --- -
w1n te rmut e
Sound s like a great way tocancel your C omc asts e rv ice wh e n t he y  ju s t  won't
let yougo:
[http: // w ww .theguardi a n.c om /techno logy/sh ortcu t s/2014/ jul/17/.. .](http:/ /w ww.t h e gua rdian.com/ technolo gy/shortc u ts/20 1 4/ jul/1 7/c omcast -cus tomer -servi c es- call- ryan-b lo ck)

- ----- 
j rochkind 1
Where I live, comcast  is pr ettymuc h the ONL Y b r oad band prov ider . There ar e
l ots  of p lac e s lik e th i s. 

T h ese a re t h e risks o f  a  mo n o po ly on broad b a n d i ntern eta ccess. 

(D id you go send yo u r comments totheF C C s ayi n g to  t reat ISP's lik e c om m o n
carrie rs  yet?

1) G o to [ht tp : //fcc .gov/
 a_Tor relay_node or exit node._Prohibiting
the Tor_browser_would be_a_bad move on_the part of_any ISP who isn't_part of a
police_state,_but none of their document suggest that they're doing that. I
can understand them prohibiting_running_a Tor_node_on_your residential
internet connection though. Almost_all residential ISPs officially prohibit
running_servers, though_it usually isn't enforced as long as you_aren't
pushing_too much traffic._A Tor node can easily fall on those lines._I think
even the Tor project doesn't_recommend running nodes_on_your_home connection
rather than actual_servers with server-class connections.

~~~
sailfast
Thank you for_this. This may be a stupid_question, but how would your ISP know
you_were actively running a Tor (non-node)_connection?

Obviously I need to read_up on_all the back-end tech but_I would assume_that
if it_was easy to_identify someone using Tor, it would_no longer provide_the
anonymity / security because it would_clearly_identify outliers.

It makes_sense_to_ban someone_running a node_off_their Comcast_connection_(not
because it's logical but because of_their_high traffic / server banning track
record) but_for Comcast to detect_a_browsing session? Seems odd.

~~~
nitrogen
Using_DPI or even just flow_analysis (sizes, port numbers, destination
addresses, protocol_(TCP/UDP) bits,_and timings_of packets), it should be
possible to distinguish between encrypted TOR and_other encrypted protocols
with ease.

------
w1ntermute
Sounds like a_great way to cancel_your Comcast_service_when they just_won't
let_you go:
[http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/17/...](http://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2014/jul/17/comcast-
customer-services-call-ryan-block)

------
jrochkind1
Where_I live, comcast is pretty much the_ONLY broadband_provider. There are
lots of places like_this.

These are the risks_of_a monopoly on broadband internet access.

(Did_you go send your comments to_the FCC saying to treat_ISP's_like_common
carriers yet?

1) Go to [http://fcc.gov/