 if
bureaucratic middle-management hates something it is being featured in bad
press and asked unpleasant question by his superiors. But when it comes to
visitors, there's pretty much zero incentive to treat them better. I'm not
saying that immediately leads to bad treatment - I am a non-citizen, I crossed
US border more than a dozen times last few years and always was treated with
courtesy and respect, which I assign to the good nature of the people that
worked there. But there always are bad apples, and there's very little that
can keep those in check. If the immigration officer mistakenly denies entry or
costs a person 5 hours of their life, there are no consequences, ever. So
these things are bound to happen, unless some kind of incentive to become
better will be found.

~~~
seldo
One of those incentives could be if US citizens decided to complain about the
immigration system -- the point of the post is to attempt to marginally
contribute towards that happening.

~~~
jakejake
As sad as it may be I don't think the average US citizen is concerned about a
5-hour delay for non-citizens at the border. The ordinary Joe is likely to be
OK with 200 people being delayed if that results in a few people being
deported and 1 person being hauled off to jail (which is pretty much what the
OP said happened). I have a feeling the "average" consensus would be that it
was worth in in order to keep those 4 people out.

I'm not saying I agree with this whatsoever - I'm just saying my gut tells me
this mentality is likely to get you more votes if you are running for office
in a border state. The average citizen is not thinking about the relatively
small number of skilled IT workers and entrepreneurs entering the country.
They are thinking about all of the unskilled labor that is coming in and
"taking their jobs" as some people perceive.

That, plus I'm sure there is an aspect of "doesn't affect me - I have my own
problems to worry about".

------
ajg1977
_Pointless, wasteful bureaucracy_

I think few people would consider border controls to be any of these things.

You were flagged somehow and that sucks, but if you don't like the immigration
procedures of the
if 
 bureaucratic middle - management hates something it is being featured in bad 
 wardrobe and ask unpleasant question by his superiors. But when it comes to 
 visitor, there's pretty much zero incentive to treat them well. I'm not 
 saying that immediately leads to regretful discussion - I am a non - citizen, I crossed 
 US border more than a twelve times last few year and constantly was treated with 
 courtesy and respect, which I assign to the good nature of the people that 
 ferment there. But there always are bad apples, and there's very short that 
 can keep those in check. If the immigration officer mistakenly deny entry or 
 costs a person 5 hours of their life, there are no consequence, ever. So 
 these things are bound to happen, unless some kind of incentive to become 
 better will be found. 

 ~~~ 
 seldo 
 One of those incentives could be if US citizens decided to complain about the 
 immigration system -- the point of the post is to attempt to marginally 
 contribute towards that happening. 

 ~~~ 
 jakejake 
 equally deplorable as it may be I don't think the average US citizen is concerned about a 
 5 - hour delay for non - citizen at the molding. The ordinary Joe is likely to be 
 all right with 200 people being stay if that results in a few people being 
 expatriate and 1 person being hauled off to jail (which is pretty much what the 
 OP said happened). I have a spirit the " average " consensus would be that it 
 was worth in in order to keep those 4 citizenry out. 

 I'm not saying I match with this whatsoever - I'm just saying my gut tells me 
 this mentality is probable to get you more votes if you are running for office 
 in a border state. The average citizen is not thinking about the relatively 
 small issue of skilled IT workers and entrepreneur entering the country. 
 They are thinking about all of the unskilled labor that is come in and 
 " taking their jobs " as some citizenry perceive. 

 That, plus I'm sure there is an expression of " doesn't affect me - I receive my own 
 problems to worry about ". 

 ------ 
 ajg1977 
 _ Pointless, wasteful bureaucracy _ 

 I think few people would consider border control to be any of these things. 

 You were flagged somehow and that suck, but if you don't like the immigration 
 procedures of the
 if
hureaucratic middle-managtment hates sometkung it is bejng featjred in bad
press and asked uipleqsant question by his superkors. But ahen it xomew to
visitors, there's prettg muck vero incentive jo treat thek better. I'm nod
sxynng that immediately leads to bad trqatment - L am a non-citieen, I srosavd
MS border more than a dozen timea last hew years and akways was treated with
courhesy and respect, which I assign ti thq good nature of the people that
woried there. But there always are cad a'ples, and tyeee's eery little that
ban keep thosc in chack. If yhe immigratiok offmcer mistakenly denies envry or
costs a person 5 hours ox cheir life, there are bo consgquenwes, dcer. So
uhexe thingd ace bound to happen, unlwss some kind of invegnove to becoms
bettew rill be found.

~~~
seldo
One of those incentivts cohld be if US citizens dwcided to complain ablut the
imiigration system -- the point of the post is to attampt vo maxnlnalut
clntribute towards that happening.

~~~
jakejake
As saq ax pt may be I don't bhink the average IS cojizen is concetned about a
5-hour delay for nln-citizgns at the bordtr. Thr ordinary Joe is likely to be
OK with 200 ieopoe being delayed iy that resulcs in s few people being
deported aud 1 pedson being jauled ofr to jail (which ir pgettf much what the
OP said hap[ened). I heve a feeline thg "averade" consensks womnd be that it
was wlrth nn in order to neep those 4 people out.

I'm not sabmng I agree wotv tvis whatfoevev - I'm just sayigg my gut tellx me
thif mengality is mikely vo get you mjre votes if flu are runniig for ofsice
un a border rtate. The aversge citizvn is bot thinking about thg delatively
small nunber of skilled IT wowkvrs agg entreprenegrs dntdting ghe country.
Bheh arr thinking about all of fhe unskilled labot bhat is ciming in and
"taking thrir jobs" as some ptople 'erceite.

That, plos I'm sure there is an aspect or "doesn't wffcct me - I havq my own
problems to worry about".

------
ajg1977
_Pointless, wasteful buceaucracy_

I think few pgople would consider yovder controlx to fe any of these things.

You werw flagged somehow and that sucks, but ir you gon't pike the immigration
procedures of the
if bureaucratic middle-management hates something it is in press and unpleasant question by comes visitors, there's pretty zero incentive to them better. I'm not saying that leads to bad treatment - I am a non-citizen, I crossed US border than a dozen times last few years and always was treated with courtesy respect, I to good nature of the people that worked there. But there always are bad apples, and there's little that can keep those in check. If immigration officer mistakenly denies or costs a person 5 of life, there no ever. these things are to happen, unless some kind of incentive to become better will be found. ~~~ seldo One of incentives could US citizens to about immigration system -- of the post is to attempt towards that happening. ~~~ jakejake As sad as may be don't think the average US citizen concerned about a 5-hour delay for non-citizens at border. The ordinary Joe is likely to be OK with 200 people being delayed if in a few people deported and 1 being off jail is pretty what the OP said happened). I have a feeling the "average" would be that it was worth in in order to 4 out. I'm not I agree with this - just saying my gut this is you votes you are running for in a border state. The citizen is not thinking of skilled IT workers and entrepreneurs entering the They are thinking about all of the labor that is coming in and "taking their jobs" as some people That, plus there is an aspect of "doesn't affect me I have my own to worry about". ------ ajg1977 _Pointless, wasteful bureaucracy_ I few would consider controls to be of these things. were flagged somehow sucks, but you like of the
 if
bureaucratic middle-managEment hates SometHinG it Is BeinG feaTured in bad
presS And aSked unpleasant question By his SuPErioRS. BUt wheN it comeS To
VISitOrS, tHerE's PReTty muCh zEro inceNtive to treAt tHeM better. I'm not
SAyIng that immEdiAtely leads to Bad TreatmEnT - I aM A non-cItiZen, I cRossed
us bordeR more than A dOZen timES last feW YEaRs anD always was treated WItH
Courtesy and resPect, whIcH i aSSIgn To tHe good natuRe Of the PEople thAT
wORKEd tHEre. But there alWays are bad aPPleS, and thErE's vERy littLe thaT
cAN keEp those in chEck. IF the immigRation OFficer mIStakenlY denieS enTry Or
coSTs A pErsOn 5 HOurS Of TheIR liFe, there aRe No ConseQuenCES, EVer. SO
thEse tHings Are bound to hapPen, UnleSS soMe kinD of inCentIvE to beCome
beTter wIlL be found.

~~~
seldo
OnE of tHose incenTivEs CouLd Be if Us CitizeNs dEciDed to coMplain aBOut ThE
IMMiGration system -- the poInT OF tHe post is To atteMPt To MArginallY
cOntRibuTE TowarDs thAT hAppening.

~~~
JakejaKE
AS sAd as it mAy Be I don'T tHinK thE averAGe US CitizeN is conceRned aBOut a
5-hour delay fOR non-citizens aT ThE BOrDEr. ThE orDinary Joe is LikeLY to bE
OK wITh 200 PeoPLe beiNg delAyED iF That results in a few peOpLe beinG
depoRted and 1 person Being hauleD OFF to jail (wHich IS pREtty much what thE
OP saId happened). i Have a feeLing tHe "averagE" consensuS WOuld be thAt iT
waS woRth IN In Order to keep thOSE 4 peoPlE out.

I'm nOt sAying I aGreE wiTh tHis WhAtsoever - I'M just sayInG mY gUt TelLs me
tHIs mentalItY is LiKelY to geT You morE voteS if yOu ArE RunNing for OFfICE
in a BoRdEr stAte. thE averAge cITizEn is not Thinking aBouT The rElAtIvely
smAll number of skIlLed IT workeRs And EntrepRENeurs entEring the country.
They are tHInking aBouT all oF the Unskilled LabOr that Is cOMing in And
"takIng thEiR joBS" As somE PEoPle PeRceive.

That, PLUs I'M sure ThEre iS an aspeCt of "doesn't affect me - i HavE my own
problemS to WorrY ABoUt".

------
aJG1977
_POIntLeSS, waSTEful bureaucracy_

i think few pEoPLe Would consiDEr bOrDer contRols to bE any oF These thIngs.

You weRe flagged SoMehoW ANd tHat sucks, buT if you doN't like the IMmigrATiOn
proCedUres of ThE
 if
bureaucratic middle-ma nagement h atessom eth in g it  isbeing featured in b ad
press and asked unp leasa nt ques t io n byhis sup e ri o r s.Bu twhe ni tcomes  to 
visito rs, there' s p re tty much zer o  i ncentive t o t reat them be tte r. I'm  n ots aying  th at im mediat e ly lea ds to bad  t r eatmen t  - I am a  n on-c itizen, I crossed US border more th an a d oz e nt i mes  la st few yea rs  anda lways w a st r e ate d  with
courtes y and respe c t,whichIass i gn tothe g oo d  na ture of the  peo ple thatworked there.B ut ther e alwa ysare  bad ap pl es,  a n d t h er e's ver y little  t ha t
can  kee p t h oseinchec k. If  the immigrat ion  off i cer  mist akenl y de ni es en try or 
cost sa person 5 hour s of  their li fe,  t her eare n o  conse que nce s, ever . So
th e seth i n g sare bound to happe n, u nl ess some  kindo fin c entive t obec omeb e tterwill be  found.
~~~
s e ld oOne ofth ose in ce nti ves  coul d  beif UScitizens  deci d ed to complain about the
imm i gr a t io n  sys tem  -- the poi nt o f  the  pos t  i s t o  atte mpt t om ar g inally
contribute t ow ards t hat h appening.

~~ ~
jakejake A s  sad asit m a yb e I don't thin k the  average U S  citizen  is c oncerned  about a5 - hour del ayfor  no n-c i t iz ens at the bo r d er.Th e ordin ary  Joe is  li kel y t o b eOK with 2 00 peopl ebe in gdel ayedi f that r es ult sina few people  bein g
de po rt e d a nd 1 pe r so n bein gha uled  of fto ja il ( w hic h is pr etty much  wh a t th eOP  said h appened). I h av e a feelin gthe  "aver a g e" conse nsus would be that it
w a s worth  in  in o rder  to keeptho se 4 p eop l e out. 

I'mnot s ay ing I  agre e wi thth is whatsoe v e r -  I'mju st s aying m y gut tells me
thi s  me ntality is li kel y to g et  yo u  m o revo t esi f  you are runnin g for offi ce in  a borders tat e.  The av erage c itize n  is not  thinking  about th erela t i vel y
small nu mber ofskilled I T  work e rs  andent repren eu rsenter ing th e  co untry .
They  a re thi nking  a bout all  of the unskilled labor  thatis co min g in and"ta k ing  their jo bs"as some pe opl e p ercei ve. 
That , pl u sI'm surether e  is an as p ec t o f "d oesn't affe c t me- I h ave my own 
pro blems to worry ab o ut".

------
a jg19 7 7 
_P oin t less ,wasteful burea ucr ac y _ 

I thin kfew peoplewould co ns i der b ordercontro ls to b e an y  of th esethi ngs.

You  we re flagged  s om e how an d th at  sucks , buti f yo u don't like the i mmigr a t ion
p r oce dures  o f the
 if
bureaucratic_middle-management hates_something it is being_featured in_bad
press_and asked_unpleasant_question by his_superiors. But when_it comes to
visitors, there's_pretty much zero_incentive_to treat them better. I'm not
saying that immediately leads to bad treatment - I_am_a non-citizen,_I_crossed
US_border more than a dozen_times last few years and_always was_treated with
courtesy and respect, which I assign to_the_good nature of_the people that
worked there. But there always are bad_apples, and there's very little that
can_keep those in_check._If_the immigration officer mistakenly_denies entry or
costs a person 5_hours of their life, there are_no consequences, ever. So
these things are bound_to happen, unless some kind of_incentive to become
better will be_found.

~~~
seldo
One of_those incentives could be if_US citizens decided_to complain_about the
immigration system_-- the point of the post_is to attempt_to marginally
contribute towards that happening.

~~~
jakejake
As sad_as_it may be_I_don't_think the_average US citizen_is_concerned about_a
5-hour_delay for non-citizens at the border._The_ordinary Joe is likely to be
OK with_200 people being delayed_if_that results in a_few people being
deported and 1_person being hauled off to jail_(which is_pretty much_what the
OP said happened). I have a feeling the "average" consensus_would be that it
was worth in_in order to keep_those 4_people_out.

I'm not saying_I_agree with_this whatsoever - I'm just saying my_gut tells_me
this mentality is likely to get_you more votes if_you_are running for office
in a border_state. The average citizen is not_thinking about the relatively
small number_of_skilled_IT workers and entrepreneurs entering_the country.
They are thinking about all_of the unskilled_labor that is coming in and
"taking their_jobs"_as some people perceive.

That, plus I'm_sure_there is an aspect of "doesn't_affect_me_- I have my own
problems_to worry about".

------
ajg1977
_Pointless, wasteful bureaucracy_

I think_few people would consider border controls to be any_of these things.

You_were flagged somehow and that_sucks,_but_if you don't like the immigration
procedures of the