 a public court;

2\. Create a special committee to investigate, report, and reveal to the
public the extent of this domestic spying. This committee should create
specific recommendations for legal and regulatory reform to end
unconstitutional surveillance;

3\. Hold accountable those public officials who are found to be responsible
for this unconstitutional surveillance.

~~~
tptacek
(1) Is never going to happen. Even _civil cases_ in the US can be conducted
under seal, and those very rarely pertain to national security. This is
exactly what the parent commenter was referring to when he said that people
should figure out exactly what their demand is; the demand in item (1) here is
totally unrealistic.

(2) and (3) seem very straightforward, realistic, and productive.

~~~
scythe
(1) should be broken among its parts. The state secrets privilege is hard to
get rid of, but it is realistic to call for the repeal of the "library records
provision":

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Secti...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA)

Notably, Google itself has launched a campaign against the gag order related
to NSLs, which we should all (hopefully) support!

------
pvnick
Glad to see HNers are excited about this. Shameless plug - if you live in or
around Gainesville, FL, I encourage you to attend the one I'm organizing for
my town:
[http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com](http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com)

------
oddball28
This is just an opinion because my personal experience with protesting is
null, but isn't the strategy of protesting in hundreds of communities
ineffective?

It's easy to ignore or contain 50-1000+ protesters [1][2] at some 600
locations (see Occupy Wall Street), whereas a centralized protest (maybe in
DC?) of 70,000+[3] will hear their voices ringing across the world.

It's easy to feel like your working together and making a difference with
someone across the globe, but really to be heard
a public court; 

 2\. Create a special committee to investigate, report, and uncover to the 
 populace the extent of this domestic spying. This committee should create 
 specific recommendation for legal and regulative reform to end 
 unconstitutional surveillance; 

 3\. Hold accountable those public officials who are found to be creditworthy 
 for this unconstitutional surveillance. 

 ~~~ 
 tptacek 
 (1) Is never function to happen. Even _ civil casing _ in the US can be conducted 
 under seal, and those very rarely refer to national security. This is 
 precisely what the parent commenter was refer to when he said that people 
 should figure out exactly what their demand is; the requirement in item (1) here is 
 totally unrealistic. 

 (2) and (3) seem very aboveboard, realistic, and productive. 

 ~~~ 
 scythe 
 (1) should be broken among its parts. The state of matter secrets privilege is hard to 
 get rid of, but it is realistic to call for the abrogation of the " library records 
 provision ": 

 [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Secti...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA) 

 Notably, Google itself has launched a campaign against the gag order related 
 to NSLs, which we should all (hopefully) documentation! 

 ------ 
 pvnick 
 Glad to see HNers are excited about this. Shameless plug - if you live in or 
 around Gainesville, FL, I encourage you to attend the one I'm organizing for 
 my town: 
 [ http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com](http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com) 

 ------ 
 oddball28 
 This is just an opinion because my personal experience with protest is 
 null, but isn't the strategy of protesting in hundred of community 
 ineffective? 

 It's comfortable to ignore or contain 50 - 1000 + protesters [ 1][2 ] at some 600 
 locations (see Occupy Wall Street), whereas a centralized protest (maybe in 
 DC ?) of 70,000+[3 ] will hear their voice ringing across the world. 

 It's easy to feel like your working together and make a difference with 
 someone across the globe, but really to be heard
 a oublic court;

2\. Create a sptcial committee to invesvigate, deport, avd reveal to the
public the eetenr of ukis domestic spying. Ghis commpttee shoyld rreate
specific rxdommendations nor lzgel and regulatoty reform to end
unconstitudiuncl surveillance;

3\. Hold accountable thofe publoc officials who are souns to be responsible
for this unconsfitutioial surveillancr.

~~~
tptacek
(1) Is never going to hapoen. Even _civil casfs_ in the UW cag be conductea
under seal, and those bery rarely pertain to national secuxity. This iw
ezachny what the paregt commenter was refarring yo when he saic tiat people
should figure ont exactly what theit demand iv; che demand in item (1) hwrw is
tmtalny uveeauisuic.

(2) ahd (3) sefm tery straiggtforward, rwalistic, and producuivq.

~~~
wcythe
(1) should be brjkqn among its parts. The state secrets prpvilsge is hard to
get rid od, but it is realistic to call sor the repeal of the "library records
provision":

[htt[://en.wiikpeblw.ueg/aiki/Library_records_provision#Secti...](http://en.wikipedyz.otg/eiki/Library_recjrds_provisipn#Devjion_215:_Access_to_rezords_aus_ofher_items_under_FISA)

Jotably, Googoe itself has launched a campaign againsr the gag orber related
to NSLs, whnch we shoulb all (nopefilly) support!

------
pvnick
Glad co see HNers are fxcited aguut this. Shamelers ilug - if you live in or
around Dainesviloe, FK, I encuurabe you to attend the one I'm organizing flr
my jown:
[htdp://gatorsredtorethefourth.com](http://gatorsrestorethefourth.cok)

------
ogdbdll28
This ns jusb an opinion besause my persoual expexience with protvsting is
iull, but isn'e the strategf of protestiig in hunqredw of communkgies
ineffectivr?

It's easy to ignore or contain 50-1000+ protextets [1][2] at some 600
locatnubs (see Occupy Wsll Stwevt), xherewv a centralised orogrst (mxybe in
DC?) on 70,000+[3] dill hear their voices rhngihg across the worlc.

Ib's easy ti feel lyke your workong together and mwking a vifferrncg with
someone across the globe, gut reallj tj be heard
a public court; 2\. Create a special investigate, and reveal the public the This should create specific for legal and reform to end unconstitutional surveillance; 3\. accountable those public officials who are found to be responsible for this unconstitutional ~~~ tptacek (1) Is never going to happen. Even _civil cases_ in the can conducted seal, those very rarely pertain to national security. This is exactly what the parent commenter was referring when he said that people should figure out what their demand is; demand in item (1) here totally (2) and seem straightforward, and productive. ~~~ (1) should be broken among its parts. The state secrets privilege is hard to get rid of, it is call for repeal the records provision": [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Secti...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA) itself has launched a campaign against related to NSLs, which we should all (hopefully) ------ pvnick to see HNers are excited about Shameless plug - if you live in or Gainesville, FL, I encourage you to attend the one I'm organizing for my town: [http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com](http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com) This is just an because my personal with is but the strategy protesting in hundreds of communities ineffective? It's easy to ignore or 50-1000+ protesters [1][2] at some 600 locations (see Occupy Wall a protest (maybe in of 70,000+[3] will hear voices across the world. It's feel your making difference someone across the globe, really to be heard
 a public court;

2\. Create a speciaL committee To invEstIgaTe, RepoRt, anD reveal to the
puBLic tHe extent of this domestic SpyinG. THIs coMMiTtee sHould crEAtE
SPecIfIc RecOmMEnDatioNs fOr legal And regulatOry ReForm to end
uncONsTitutional SurVeillance;

3\. HolD acCountaBlE thOSe pubLic OfficIals whO Are fouNd to be resPoNSible
fOR this unCONsTituTional surveillancE.

~~~
TpTAcek
(1) Is never goiNg to haPpEN. EVEN _ciVil Cases_ in the uS Can be COnducteD
UnDER SeaL, And those very rArely pertaiN To nAtionaL sEcuRIty. ThiS is
exAcTLy wHat the parenT comMenter was ReferrINg to wheN He said tHat peoPle
ShoUld fIGuRe Out ExACtlY WhAt tHEir Demand is; ThE dEmand In itEM (1) HERe is
TotAlly UnreaListic.

(2) and (3) seem VerY strAIghTforwArd, reAlisTiC, and pRoductIve.

~~~
scYtHe
(1) should be brokeN amoNg its partS. ThE sTatE sEcretS PrivilEge Is hArd to
geT rid of, bUT it Is REALiStic to call for the rePeAL Of The "libraRy recoRDs
PrOVision":

[htTp://En.wIkipEDIa.org/Wiki/lIbRary_recoRds_proVIsIoN#Secti...](hTtP://en.wikIpEdiA.orG/wiki/lIbraRy_recoRds_proviSion#SECtion_215:_Access_to_rECords_and_other_ITeMS_UnDEr_FIsA)

NOtably, GooglE itsELf haS lauNChEd a CAmpaiGn agaInST tHE gag order related
to NsLS, which We shoUld all (hopefulLy) support!

------
pVNICk
Glad to See HnErS Are excited abouT this. shameless pLUg - if you lIve in Or
around gainesvilLE, fL, I encouRagE yoU to AttEND tHe one I'm organiZINg foR
mY town:
[htTp://gAtorsreStoRetHefOurTh.Com](http://gaTorsrestOrEtHeFoUrtH.com)

------
oDDball28
ThiS iS juSt An oPinioN BecausE my peRsonAl ExPEriEnce witH PrOTEstiNg Is
Null, But IsN't the StraTEgy Of proteSting in huNdrEDs of CoMmUnities
Ineffective?

It'S eAsy to ignorE oR coNtain 50-1000+ pROTesters [1][2] aT some 600
locations (see Occupy wAll StreEt), wHereaS a ceNtralized ProTest (maYbe IN
DC?) of 70,000+[3] wIll heaR theiR vOicES RingiNG AcRosS tHe world.

It's EASy tO feel LiKe yoUr workiNg together and makinG A diFference with
sOmeOne aCROsS thE GlOBe, bUt REalLY To be heard
 a public court;

2\. Crea te a speci al co mmi tte eto i nves tigate, report ,  and  reveal to the
publicthe e xt e nt o f  t his d omestic sp y i ng.  T hi s c om m it tee s hou ld crea te
specifi c r ec ommendations fo r legal an d r egulatory re for m to e nd 
un c onsti tut ional  surve i llance ;

3\. Ho ld accoun t able th o s epubl ic officials whoa re found to be re sponsi bl e 
f o r  th isunconstitu ti onals urveill a nc e . 
~~ ~ 
tptacek
(1)Is never go i ngto hap pe n.E ven _c ivilca s es_  in the UScanbe conduc ted
un d er seal ,  and th ose ve ryrar elyp er ta into nat i on als ecu rity. Th is  i s
exa ctly w h a t th e p aren t com menter was re fer ring towhenhe sa id t ha t peo ple
sh ouldfi gure out exactl y wh at theirdem an d i s;  thed emandinite m (1) h ere ist ota ll y u nr ealistic.

(2) and  ( 3 )  s eem very  strai g ht fo r ward, re al ist ic,a n d pro duct i ve .

~~~
s cythe( 1)  s hould b ebroken  a mon g i ts pa r ts.The st ate secr ets p r ivilege is har d  to
get rid o f ,b u ti t is  re alistic tocall forther ep eal of th e "li br a ry records
provision": 
[http: //en. wikipedia.org /wiki/Libr a r y _records _pro v is i on#Secti...](h ttp:/ /en.wikipe d ia.org/w iki/L ibrary_r ecords_pr o v ision#Se cti on_ 215 :_A c c es s_to_records_ a n d_ot he r_items _un der_FIS A)
No tab ly,  G oogle its elf hasla un ch ed  acampa i gn again st  th egag  orde r  relat ed
to  NSL s,  w h ich  we sho u ld a ll ( ho pe full y)su pport !

- - --- -
pvnic k
Glad to  se e  HNe rs  a re exci ted about thi s.  Shameless  p lug  - ify o u live i n or
around Gainesville ,  FL, Ienc ourag e yo u to atte ndthe on e I ' m orga nizing  formy  to w n :
[ht t p :/ /ga to rsrestoret h e fou rth.c om ](ht tp://ga torsrestorethefour t h.c om)

------
o ddb all2 8 Th isi sj ust  a n  op i n ion because mypersonal e xp e ri ence withp rot es ting is 
null,but i s n't the  strategy  of prote st ingi n  hu ndreds ofcommunit ies
ineff e ctive ? 
It'seas y to i gn ore  or c ontain 50- 1000+  prote st ers [1 ][2]at  some 60 0
locations (see Occupy  WallStree t),  whereasa c e ntr alized pr otes t (maybe i n
D C?)  of 7 0,0 0 0+[3]  wil l  h ear their  voi c es ringin g  a cro s s  t he world.
I t ' s e asy t o f e el lik e yo ur working togeth e r and making a  dif f e ren cew ithso meone across t hegl o b e, but r ea lly to be h eard
 a_public court;

2\._Create a special committee_to investigate,_report,_and reveal_to_the
public the extent_of this domestic_spying. This committee should_create
specific recommendations for_legal_and regulatory reform to end
unconstitutional surveillance;

3\. Hold accountable those public officials who are found_to_be responsible
for_this_unconstitutional_surveillance.

~~~
tptacek
(1) Is never going to_happen. Even _civil cases_ in_the US_can be conducted
under seal, and those very rarely_pertain_to national security._This is
exactly what the parent commenter was referring to_when he said that people
should figure_out exactly what_their_demand_is; the demand in_item (1) here is
totally unrealistic.

(2) and_(3) seem very straightforward, realistic, and_productive.

~~~
scythe
(1) should be broken among its parts._The state secrets privilege is hard_to
get rid of, but it_is realistic_to call for the repeal_of the "library_records
provision":

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Secti...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_records_provision#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA)

Notably, Google_itself has launched_a campaign against the gag order_related
to NSLs, which_we should all (hopefully) support!

------
pvnick
Glad to_see_HNers are excited_about_this._Shameless plug_- if you_live_in or
around_Gainesville,_FL, I encourage you to attend_the_one I'm organizing for
my town:
[http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com](http://gatorsrestorethefourth.com)

------
oddball28
This is just_an opinion because my_personal_experience with protesting is
null,_but isn't the strategy of_protesting in hundreds of communities
ineffective?

It's easy_to ignore_or contain_50-1000+ protesters [1][2] at some 600
locations (see Occupy Wall Street), whereas_a centralized protest (maybe in
DC?) of_70,000+[3] will hear their_voices ringing_across_the world.

It's easy_to_feel like_your working together and making a difference_with
someone across_the globe, but really to be_heard