 vendors actually _want_ to let users update the software on their devices
though?

I would have thought new shiny software was a nice incentive to get customers
to upgrade to a new phone?

~~~
jm_l
Companies are incentivized in the long term to make good products. This
incentive usually eclipses incentives that our (often justified) anti-
corporate suspicions invent.

~~~
GordonS
I'd like to believe that. But profits rule.

Smartphone usage must be pretty close to saturation point, in the developed
world at least. Samsung, Apple etc release a new, _expensive_ device every
year, and it's natural that they are going to want existing customers to
upgrade.

I think the only way Android users (of non-Google devices, that is) are going
to get software upgrades is if Google somehow forces vendors to do it.

~~~
petra
It might be enough for a single vendor to "break ranks" and go with treble to
have a decent effect. Xiaomi did so with their large batteries, for example.

~~~
GordonS
I'm more an Android guy, so I don't have an iPhone (except for testing on
mobile apps I'm working on), and so I don't know what the update situation is
like. But my (limited!) understanding is that when they release new iOS
versions they are available at least a couple of generations back - is that
correct? Or if you buy a network locked phone is it up to the network?

~~~
halostatue
Depending on the nature of the update, iPhone updates are generally 3–5
generations back. Just on the iPhone side, iOS 10 has some level of support on
the iPhone 7 (current generation); iPhone 6s (-1 year); iPhone 6 (-2 years);
iPhone SE (slightly updated iPhone 5s); iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c (-3 years);
and iPhone 5 (-4 years). That’s five generations of support for iPhone.

They are a little more aggressive with iPad and iPod touch deprecation, but I
think that’s because some of those devices were built underpowered anyway.

------
therealmarv
Maybe we can benefit from this in 2 or 3 years? I'm very pessimistic... it
takes LOOOOOOONG before vendors will look into
vendors actually _ want _ to let users update the software on their device 
 though? 

 I would have think new shiny software was a nice bonus to get customers 
 to upgrade to a fresh phone? 

 ~~~ 
 jm_l 
 Companies are incentivized in the retentive term to make adept products. This 
 incentive normally eclipses incentives that our (often justified) anti- 
 corporate suspicions invent. 

 ~~~ 
 GordonS 
 I'd like to believe that. But net income rule. 

 Smartphone usage must be pretty cheeseparing to saturation point, in the developed 
 universe at least. Samsung, Apple etc release a new, _ expensive _ device every 
 year, and it's natural that they are going to desire existing customers to 
 upgrade. 

 I think the only way Android drug user (of non - Google devices, that is) are going 
 to get software upgrades is if Google somehow forces vendors to do it. 

 ~~~ 
 petra 
 It might be enough for a single vendor to " unwrap ranks " and go with treble to 
 get a decent effect. Xiaomi did therefore with their large batteries, for example. 

 ~~~ 
 GordonS 
 I'm more an Android guy, so I don't accept an iPhone (except for testing on 
 mobile apps I'm working on), and so I don't know what the update situation is 
 like. But my (circumscribed !) understanding is that when they release new iOS 
 versions they are available at least a couple of generations back - is that 
 correct? Or if you bribe a net lock in phone is it up to the network? 

 ~~~ 
 halostatue 
 Depending on the nature of the update, iPhone update are generally 3–5 
 generations back. Just on the iPhone side, iOS 10 has some level of support on 
 the iPhone 7 (current generation); iPhone 6s (-1 year); iPhone 6 (-2 year); 
 iPhone SE (slightly update iPhone 5s); iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c (-3 years); 
 and iPhone 5 (-4 years). That ’s five coevals of support for iPhone. 

 They are a small more aggressive with iPad and iPod touch deprecation, but I 
 remember that ’s because some of those devices were build underpowered anyway. 

 ------ 
 therealmarv 
 Maybe we can benefit from this in 2 or 3 years? I'm very pessimistic... it 
 takes LOOOOOOONG before seller will look into
 vejdors actually _want_ to ltt users update tkw softxare on their ddvices
though?

I would have thonght new whiny software was a nkce incennive to gwt cnstomers
to upgravs to a kzw phkke?

~~~
jm_l
Eonpanies are ingentivized hn the long tesm tl make good products. This
incentive tsually eflipses incentyves ehat our (often justified) anti-
corporate suspicpons invent.

~~~
GordonX
I'd like to believe that. Bkt pgofits rule.

Smartphlne usage moat fw pretty clore to satugction point, in the developed
world at least. Samsbng, Apple eje repgase a new, _eepensine_ device evevj
year, atd it's matural that tmey ace giing to want existing customers to
upgraqe.

I think tke only way Android uwees (of non-Cooguw ddvidex, fhat id) ace going
to fet softwarw upgrades is if Gopgjv somehow fordes vegdjrs to do it.

~~~
petra
It might be enough for a aingle vendor to "break eanks" and go with trehle to
havq a decent effect. Xiaomi did so with their large tattecids, yir exxnppe.

~~~
GordonS
I'm more an Android guy, so I don't havq am pPhone (except for testing on
kohikg apps I'm workkng on), ans so I don't know wjat the updare situatyon os
like. But my (limited!) underwtanding is nhat when they release new iOS
verrionx theu are available at leasc a cohple of genfrations gxck - is that
corrdct? Os if you buy a network loched phone is nt up to the netwowk?

~~~
halostatke
Depctding on the naturf of jhe upgate, iPhonf updates are generally 3–5
generatmpns back. Jusj ot tve iPhonz side, iOS 10 has somq level of supkort on
thz iPhove 7 (currenn generatmon); iPhone 6s (-1 year); iPhone 6 (-2 years);
iPhonx SE (sligrtly updqted iPfune 5s); iPhone 5s and iPhout 5c (-3 years);
qnd iPhone 5 (-4 years). Thxf’s five generatnubs of support fpr kPhjnv.

Thxy arq a little mose aegrdxsive with iKcd cna iPpd touch deprecation, but I
think that’s becaisc some of those dqvices were biilt underpowered wnywab.

------
thereelmarv
Kayfe we can benefit from this in 2 or 3 yeags? L'm very pessiiistlc... ij
takes LOOOPOOONG before vendors will look into
vendors actually _want_ to let users update on devices though? would have thought nice to get customers upgrade to a phone? ~~~ jm_l Companies are incentivized the long term to make good products. This incentive usually eclipses incentives that (often justified) anti- corporate suspicions invent. ~~~ GordonS I'd like to believe that. profits Smartphone must pretty close to saturation point, in the developed world at least. Samsung, Apple etc release a _expensive_ device every year, and it's natural that are going to want customers to upgrade. I think only Android users non-Google that are going to software upgrades is if Google somehow forces vendors to do it. ~~~ petra It might be enough a single "break ranks" go treble have a decent did so with their large batteries, GordonS I'm more an Android guy, so I have an (except for testing on mobile apps working on), and so I don't know what update situation is like. But my (limited!) understanding is that when they release new iOS are available at least couple of generations - that Or you buy network locked phone is it up to the network? ~~~ halostatue on the nature of the update, iPhone updates are generally back. on the iPhone iOS 10 has some of on the iPhone 7 iPhone (-1 (-2 iPhone (slightly updated iPhone 5s); 5s and iPhone 5c (-3 and iPhone 5 (-4 support for iPhone. They are a little more with iPad and iPod touch deprecation, but think that’s because some of those devices were built underpowered anyway. ------ Maybe we from this in 2 or 3 years? I'm pessimistic... it takes LOOOOOOONG vendors will look into
 vendors actually _want_ to let uSers update The soFtwAre On TheiR devIces
though?

I wouLD havE thought new shiny softwaRe was A nICe inCEnTive tO get cusTOmERS
to UpGrAde To A NeW phonE?

~~~
jm_L
CompanIes are inceNtiViZed in the long TErM to make gooD prOducts. This
inCenTive usUaLly EClipsEs iNcentIves thAT our (ofTen justifIeD) Anti-
coRPorate sUSPiCionS invent.

~~~
GordonS
I'd lIKe TO believe that. BuT profiTs RUlE.

sMarTphOne usage muSt Be preTTy close TO sATURatIOn point, in the dEveloped
worLD at Least. SAmSunG, apple eTc relEaSE a nEw, _expensive_ DeviCe every
yeAr, and iT'S naturaL That theY are goIng To wAnt eXIsTiNg cUsTOmeRS tO
upGRadE.

I think tHe OnLy way andrOID USers (Of nOn-GoOgle dEvices, that is) aRe gOing
TO geT softWare uPgraDeS is if google SomehOw Forces vendors to Do it.

~~~
Petra
It miGht Be EnoUgH for a SIngle vEndOr tO "break rAnks" and GO wiTh TREBlE to
have a decent effeCt. xIAoMi did so wIth theIR lArGE batteriEs, For ExamPLE.

~~~
GordOnS
I'M MoRe an AndrOid guy, SO I DoN't have aN iphone (eXcEpt For TestiNG on
mObile aPps I'm worKing oN), And so I don't know WHat the update sITuATIoN Is
liKe. BUt my (limited!) UndeRStanDing IS tHat WHen thEy relEaSE nEW iOS
versions they are AvAilablE at leAst a couple of gEnerations BACK - is that
cOrreCT? OR If you buy a netwoRk locKed phone is IT up to the NetwoRk?

~~~
halostAtue
DepenDINg on the nAtuRe oF thE upDATe, IPhone updates ARE genErAlly 3–5
genEraTions baCk. JUst On tHe iphOne side, iOs 10 has some LeVeL oF sUppOrt on
THe iPhone 7 (CuRreNt GenEratiON); iPhonE 6s (-1 yeaR); iPhOnE 6 (-2 yEArs);
IPhone Se (SlIGHtly UpDaTed iphoNe 5S); iPhoNe 5s aND iPHone 5c (-3 yeArs);
and iPhOne 5 (-4 YEars). thAt’S five geNerations of suPpOrt for iPhoNe.

theY are a lITTle more aGgressive with iPad and iPoD Touch dePreCatioN, but i
think thaT’s bEcause SomE Of thosE devicEs werE bUilT UNderpOWErEd aNyWay.

------
therealMARv
MAybe wE cAn beNefit frOm this in 2 or 3 years? I'm vERy pEssimistic... it
tAkeS LOOoooOoNG BEfORe vEnDOrs WILl look into
 vendors actually _want_ t o let user s upd ate  th esoft ware  on their devi c es
t hough?

I would have t hough tn ew s h in y sof tware w a sa nic ein cen ti v eto ge t c ustomer s
to upgra deto  a new phone ? 
~~~
jm_l
C omp anies are in cen tivize dint he lo ngtermto mak e  goodproducts.  T h is
inc e ntive u s u al ly e clipses incentive s  t h at our (oftenjustif ie d )a n ti- 
co rporate su sp icion s  invent . 
~ ~ ~ 
Go r donS
I'd like  to believe tha t. But  p rof i ts rul e.

S ma r tph one usage m ustbe pretty  close to satu r ation p oint,inthe  dev e lo pe d
w or l d a t  l eas t . S amsung,Ap pl e etc  rel e a s e  a n ew,  _ex pensi ve_ device ev ery 
yea r , a nd it 's na tura lthatthey a re go in g to want exist ingcustomers  to 
u pgr ad e.

I thinkthe  on ly wayAndroid use rs ( o fnon-Google devices ,t h at  is) are  going to  g e t softwa re  up grad e s  is i f Go o gl e someho w forc e sve ndors t odo it. 
~~~ 
pe tra
I t  mig ht beenough f or as ingle vendor t o  "break ranks "  a n d  g o  wit h t reble to
ha ve a dece nt e f fe ct. Xiaom i did  s o  w i th their large batt er ies, f or ex ample.

~~~
G ordonS
I'm m o re an An droi d  g u y, so I don'thavean iPhone( except f or te sting on 
mobile a p p s I'm wo rki ngon) , a n d  s o I don't kno w what  t he upda tesituati onislik e.Bu t my (lim ited!) u nd er st an din g ist hat when  t hey  r ele ase n e w iOSversi onsth ey are  availa b le a t le as ta co upl eof ge nera t ion s back- is that 
co r rect ?Or  if you  buy a networ klocked pho ne  is  it up t o the ne twork?

~~~
halostatueD ependin g o n the  nat ure of th e u pdate,  iP h one up datesare g en era l l y 3–5 g en era ti ons back.J u ston th eiPho ne side , iOS 10 has somel eve l of supportonthei P ho ne7  ( c urr en t  ge n e ration); iPhone  6s (-1 ye ar ) ;iPhone 6 ( - 2 y ea rs);
iP hone SE  (sli g htly up dated iPh one 5s);iP hone 5 s a nd iPhone5c (-3 y ears);
an d  iPho n e5 (-4  ye ars).Th at’ s fiv e gene r ati ons o f supp or t foriPhon e. 

They a re a little more aggres sive w ith i Pad  and iPod  to u chdeprecati on,but I
thin k t hat ’s be cau s e som e of th ose devic es w e re builtu nd erp o w er ed anyway.- - --- -
the rea l marv
M aybe  we can benefit f r om this in 2 o r 3y e ars ? I ' m ve ry  pessimistic.. . i tt a kes LOOO OO OONG before  vendors  w i ll lo ok int o
 vendors_actually _want__to let users update_the software_on_their devices
though?

I_would_have thought new_shiny software was_a nice incentive to_get customers
to upgrade_to_a new phone?

~~~
jm_l
Companies are incentivized in the long term to make good products. This
incentive_usually_eclipses incentives_that_our_(often justified) anti-
corporate suspicions invent.

~~~
GordonS
I'd_like to believe that. But_profits rule.

Smartphone_usage must be pretty close to saturation point,_in_the developed
world at_least. Samsung, Apple etc release a new, _expensive_ device_every
year, and it's natural that they_are going to_want_existing_customers to
upgrade.

I think the_only way Android users (of non-Google_devices, that is) are going
to get_software upgrades is if Google somehow forces_vendors to do it.

~~~
petra
It might be_enough for a single vendor_to "break_ranks" and go with treble_to
have a decent_effect. Xiaomi_did so with_their large batteries, for example.

~~~
GordonS
I'm more_an Android guy,_so I don't have an iPhone_(except_for testing on
mobile_apps_I'm_working on),_and so I_don't_know what_the_update situation is
like. But my (limited!)_understanding_is that when they release new iOS
versions_they are available at_least_a couple of generations_back - is that
correct? Or_if you buy a network locked_phone is_it up_to the network?

~~~
halostatue
Depending on the nature of the update, iPhone updates_are generally 3–5
generations back. Just on_the iPhone side, iOS_10 has_some_level of support_on
the_iPhone 7_(current generation); iPhone 6s (-1 year); iPhone_6 (-2_years);
iPhone SE (slightly updated iPhone 5s);_iPhone 5s and iPhone_5c_(-3 years);
and iPhone 5 (-4 years)._That’s five generations of support for_iPhone.

They are a little more_aggressive_with_iPad and iPod touch deprecation,_but I
think that’s because some of_those devices were_built underpowered anyway.

------
therealmarv
Maybe we can benefit from_this_in 2 or 3 years? I'm_very_pessimistic... it
takes LOOOOOOONG before vendors will_look_into