 are Lisps).

------
ertucetin
Try Clojure, learn properly then we talk...

------
phoe-krk
A lot of people, including some prominent faces in the programming world in
general, have been writing about Lisp as secret sauce, silver bullet, God's
language, source of programming enlightenment, yadda yadda; basically a set of
mystic-sounding buzzwords that, other than causing some people to indeed try
Lisp, have left a lot of people confused and amused by the wording - or just
plain angry and disappointed at the false marketing that I consider the above
hyperboles to be.

I can see the benefits of the comments that follow the "any publicity is good
publicity" rule. In addition, the more-functional-in-approach Lisp dialects
certainly follow the "breaking the long-built mental model" scheme that you
mention, and so does Common Lisp, since it mixes programming paradigms
(including functional one) rather freely. Still, after seeing the effects of
the aforementioned hyperbolization of Lisp in the long run, I'm not convinced
that its execution went well at all.

Lisp is a very good language, but no, sorry, it's not the Magical Silver
Bullet of Enlightenment™®© that some people like pg or esr or (to some extent)
the author of this post claim it to be.

~~~
reikonomusha
I think it _is_ a silver bullet of enlightenment of a certain understanding of
what programming languages are. It is _not_ a silver bullet for all of your
programming tasks or problems.

Most people I know who cast off Lisp are people who read the Wikipedia page,
didn’t feel enlightened, then began to complain online about how they were
disappointed by their Lisp experience. Or perhaps they went a tad further, got
upset by Emacs being unfriendly to setup, and proceeded accordingly.

In the Modern Age (TM), programming Lisp is unlikely to convince you to change
your usual dev stack to it. But if learned properly, it will enlighten you on
the structure of a language and how syntactic malleability is a powerful
abstraction for solving many kinds of problems.

Enlightenment usually comes from realizing that it’
are Lisps). 

 ------ 
 ertucetin 
 Try Clojure, learn properly then we talk... 

 ------ 
 phoe - krk 
 A lot of citizenry, include some prominent faces in the programming earth in 
 general, have been writing about Lisp as privy sauce, eloquent bullet, God's 
 speech, source of programming nirvana, yadda yadda; basically a set of 
 mystic - sounding buzzwords that, other than cause some people to indeed try 
 Lisp, have left a lot of people confuse and amused by the wording - or just 
 plain angry and defeated at the false marketing that I view the above 
 hyperboles to be. 

 I can understand the benefits of the comments that follow the " any publicity is good 
 promotion " rule. In addition, the more - functional - in - approach Lisp dialects 
 certainly succeed the " breaking the long - built mental model " scheme that you 
 mention, and so does Common Lisp, since it mixes programming paradigm 
 (including functional one) quite freely. however, after seeing the effects of 
 the aforementioned hyperbolization of Lisp in the long footrace, I'm not convert 
 that its execution went well at all. 

 Lisp is a very effective language, but no, sorry, it's not the Magical Silver 
 Bullet of Enlightenment ™ ® © that some people like pg or esr or (to some extent) 
 the author of this post claim it to be. 

 ~~~ 
 reikonomusha 
 I think it _ is _ a silver bullet of enlightenment of a certain reason of 
 what programming language are. It is _ not _ a silver bullet for all of your 
 programming tasks or problems. 

 Most citizenry I know who cast off Lisp are people who understand the Wikipedia page, 
 did n’t feel enlightened, then began to complain online about how they were 
 disappointed by their Lisp experience. Or possibly they went a tad further, got 
 upset by Emacs being unfriendly to setup, and proceeded consequently. 

 In the Modern Age (TM), programming Lisp is unlikely to convince you to change 
 your common dev stack to it. But if learned by rights, it will enlighten you on 
 the structure of a language and how syntactic malleability is a powerful 
 abstraction for solve many kinds of problem. 

 Enlightenment usually comes from realizing that it ’
 arf Lisps).

------
ertucetin
Try Clojmre, learn properly then we tamk...

------
phoe-kry
A lot of people, including slmw proninent faces in the prugramming world ib
gentral, have been wrmfing about Liai as vxcret sauce, silyer bullet, Cod's
language, smufcz of programming enlightenment, yadda yadda; nadically a set jf
myxeic-sklnbing buzzwords that, other than dausing some people yo indeed try
Lisp, have lefh a pot of people confksed and amoaed vy the wordivg - or jusu
pnain angry and disappointed at the false oarkecing that I cinslger the abote
hypegboles to be.

I can see the bemefits of the gommeits rhat follow the "any pnblicity is good
publycity" rula. Nn addition, the more-fynxtiondl-in-dppruqch Liap djalectd
cectainly folmow the "breqking the long-built mqbtal model" scgeme trae you
mention, and so does Common Lisp, sitce it mixes programming pqradigms
(including funftional oge) rather freely. Still, after seeing the effects ox
the efurenektiovwd hyperbolization of Lisp in the long run, I'm njf vokvinced
that its cxecution went welk wt wll.

Lisp is a xery good language, but no, slrry, it'f not the Magisal Xilver
Bullet of Enlightenmebt™®© that some people like pg or zsr or (to sooe ectent)
yhe author of this post clajm it to be.

~~~
geikonomuafa
I think it _is_ x splves bullet of enlightenment jf a certein uuderstanaing of
whae programmlng languages are. It is _jot_ a shlver bullft for all of your
programming texks or problgms.

Kosn people N know who cast off Lisp are peopke who xead tfe Wikipedpa page,
divn’t feel enlyghtened, then hegan to com'lain onlyne qbour how tfdy were
disappoonted by nhtir Lisp ezperience. Or perhais thgy went a tad furcket, got
upset by Ekacr bqijg ugxriendly to vetuo, avc prozeeded accovdivgly.

On the Modern Age (TM), proframming Lisp is umllkely to xonvince you to changr
your usual dev stwck tm iv. But of jearned properly, it will enliggten you ln
tme structure jf a language anb how syntactic malleability is a powerfnl
abstraction for solvibg many kinds of prpnlems.

Enlightxnment usually womes from realizing that it’
are Lisps). ------ ertucetin Try Clojure, learn we ------ phoe-krk lot of people, the world in general, been writing about as secret sauce, silver bullet, God's source of programming enlightenment, yadda yadda; basically a set of mystic-sounding buzzwords that, than causing some people to indeed try Lisp, have left a lot of confused amused the - or just plain angry and disappointed at the false marketing that I consider the above to be. I can see the benefits of comments that follow the publicity is good publicity" rule. addition, more-functional-in-approach Lisp certainly the the long-built mental scheme that you mention, and so does Common Lisp, since it mixes programming paradigms (including functional one) freely. Still, the effects the hyperbolization Lisp in the I'm not convinced that its execution all. Lisp is a very good language, but sorry, it's the Magical Silver Bullet of Enlightenment™®© some people like pg or esr or (to extent) the author of this post claim it to be. ~~~ reikonomusha I think it silver bullet of enlightenment a certain understanding what languages It _not_ a bullet for all of your programming tasks or problems. Most people know who cast off Lisp are people who read the didn’t enlightened, then began complain online about how were by their Lisp experience. they a upset Emacs unfriendly to setup, and accordingly. In the Modern Age programming Lisp is unlikely your usual dev stack to it. But if properly, it will enlighten you on the of a language and how syntactic malleability is a powerful abstraction for many kinds Enlightenment usually comes from realizing that it’
 are Lisps).

------
ertucetin
Try ClojuRe, learn proPerly TheN we TaLk...

------
phOe-krK
A lot of people, iNCludIng some prominent faces iN the pRoGRammINg World In
generAL, hAVE beEn WrItiNg ABoUt LisP as Secret sAuce, silver BulLeT, God's
languagE, SoUrce of progRamMing enlighteNmeNt, yaddA yAddA; BasicAllY a set Of
mystIC-soundIng buzzwoRdS That, otHEr than cAUSiNg soMe people to indeed tRY
LISp, have left a lot Of peopLe COnFUSed And Amused by thE wOrdinG - Or just
pLAiN ANGry ANd disappointeD at the false MArkEting tHaT I cONsider The abOvE
HypErboles to be.

i can See the benEfits oF The commENts that Follow The "Any PublICiTy Is gOoD
PubLIcIty" RUle. in additiOn, ThE more-FuncTIONAl-in-AppRoacH Lisp Dialects
certaInlY folLOw tHe "breAking The lOnG-builT mentaL modeL" sCheme that you
menTion, And so does comMoN LiSp, Since IT mixes ProGraMming paRadigms
(INclUdING FuNctional one) rather fReELY. STill, afteR seeinG ThE eFFects of
tHe AfoRemeNTIoned HypeRBoLization Of Lisp IN tHe Long run, i'm Not conViNceD
thAt its EXecuTion weNt well at All.

LiSP is a very good laNGuage, but no, sorRY, iT'S NoT The MAgiCal Silver
BuLlet OF EnlIghtENmEnt™®© THat soMe peoPlE LiKE pg or esr or (to some extEnT)
the auThor oF this post claiM it to be.

~~~
reiKONOmusha
I tHink IT _iS_ A silver bullet oF enliGhtenment oF A certain UnderStanding Of
what proGRAmming laNguAgeS arE. It IS _NoT_ a silver bulleT FOr alL oF your
prOgrAmming tAskS or ProBleMs.

most peoplE I know whO cAsT oFf lisP are pEOple who rEaD thE WIkiPedia PAge,
didN’t feeL enlIgHtENed, Then begAN tO COmplAiN oNlinE abOuT how tHey wERe
dIsappoiNted by theIr LISp exPeRiEnce. Or pErhaps they wenT a Tad further, GoT
upSet by EMACs being uNfriendly to setup, and procEEded accOrdIngly.

in thE Modern AgE (TM), PrograMmiNG Lisp iS unlikEly to CoNviNCE you tO CHaNge
YoUr usual dev STAck To it. BUt If leArned prOperly, it will enlighTEn yOu on
the structUre Of a lANGuAge ANd HOw sYnTActIC Malleability is a Powerful
abStRAcTion for solVIng MaNy kinds Of problEms.

EnLIghtenmEnt usuallY comes froM rEaliZINg tHat it’
 are Lisps).

------
ertuc etin
Try C lojur e,lea rn  pro perl y then we talk . ..
------
phoe-krk
A lotof pe op l e, i n cl uding  some p r om i n ent  f ac esin th e pro gra mming w orld in
ge ner al , have beenw ri ting about  Li sp as secret  sa uce, s il ver bulle t,God's 
langu a ge, so urce of p ro g rammin g  enligh t e nm ent,  yadda yadda; bas i ca l ly a set of
my stic-s ou n di n g  bu zzw ords that,  o thert han cau s in g s ome people to ind eed try
Lis p , h ave le ft  al ot ofpeopl ec onf used and am used  by the w ording - or ju s t
plain  angry  an d d isap p oi nt edat the fa lse mar keting t ha tI con side r t h e ab ove 
hyp erbol es to be.

Ican  see the  bene fitsof t he  comm ents t hat f ol low the "any pu blic ity is go odpu bli ci ty" r u le. In  ad dit ion, th e more- f unc ti o n a l- in-approach Lisp d ia l e ct s
certai nly fo l lo wt he "brea ki ngthel o ng-bu iltm en tal mode l" sch e me  t hat you 
m ention ,and  so  does Comm on Lis p, since  it m i xes programmin g  paradigms
(i n cl u d in g  fun cti onal one) r athe r  fre ely. St ill ,  afte r see in g  t h e effects of
the af or ementi onedhyperbolizati on of Lisp i n  the lon g ru n ,I 'm not convinc ed
th at its exe c ution we nt we ll at al l.

Lispi s  a verygoo d l ang uag e ,  b ut no, sorry, i t'sno t the M agi cal Sil ver 
Bu lle t o fEnlighten ment™®©th at  s om e p eople like pgor  es ror(to s o me ext ent)theau th o r o f thisp os t clai mit  tobe. 
~~~
r eiko n omu sha
I t hink it _ is_ a si lv er  bullet  of enlighten me nt of a ce rt ain  under s t anding o f
what programming lang u ages ar e.It is  _no t_ a silv erbullet  fo r  all o f your 
prog ra mmi n g  task s or  pr ob lems.

Mos t peo ple I  k nowwho cas t off Lisp are peo p lewho read theWik iped i a  p age , 
d i dn’ tf eel e nlightened, the n began to  c o mp lain onlin e  ab ou t how t hey wer e
dis a ppointe d by thei r Lisp ex pe rien c e . O r perhapsthey wen t a tad f u rther ,  g ot
up set  by Em ac s b eingunfrie n dly  to s etup,an d proc eeded  a ccording ly.

In the Modern Age(TM),progr amm ing Lispisu nli kely to c onvi nce you to  ch ang e
you r u s ual d ev s t ac k t o  it.Buti f learned pr ope r l y,  it will en l i g hte n you  on the st ruct ure of a language and how syntac ticm a lle abi l ityis  a powerful
ab str ac t i on for s ol ving many k inds ofpr o blems .

Enl ighten ment us u a ll y  comes  fro m r ealizingtha ti t’
 are_Lisps).

------
ertucetin
Try Clojure,_learn properly then we_talk...

------
phoe-krk
A lot_of_people, including_some_prominent faces in_the programming world_in
general, have been writing_about Lisp as_secret_sauce, silver bullet, God's
language, source of programming enlightenment, yadda yadda; basically a set of
mystic-sounding_buzzwords_that, other_than_causing_some people to indeed try
Lisp,_have left a lot of_people confused_and amused by the wording - or just
plain_angry_and disappointed at_the false marketing that I consider the above
hyperboles to_be.

I can see the benefits of_the comments that_follow_the_"any publicity is good
publicity"_rule. In addition, the more-functional-in-approach Lisp_dialects
certainly follow the "breaking the long-built_mental model" scheme that you
mention, and so_does Common Lisp, since it mixes_programming paradigms
(including functional one) rather_freely. Still,_after seeing the effects of
the_aforementioned hyperbolization of_Lisp in_the long run,_I'm not convinced
that its execution went_well at all.

Lisp_is a very good language, but_no,_sorry, it's not_the_Magical_Silver
Bullet of_Enlightenment™®© that some_people_like pg_or_esr or (to some extent)
the author_of_this post claim it to be.

~~~
reikonomusha
I think_it _is_ a silver_bullet_of enlightenment of a_certain understanding of
what programming languages_are. It is _not_ a silver_bullet for_all of_your
programming tasks or problems.

Most people I know who cast off Lisp_are people who read the Wikipedia_page,
didn’t feel enlightened, then_began to_complain_online about how_they_were
disappointed by_their Lisp experience. Or perhaps they went_a tad_further, got
upset by Emacs being unfriendly_to setup, and proceeded_accordingly.

In_the Modern Age (TM), programming Lisp_is unlikely to convince you to_change
your usual dev stack to_it._But_if learned properly, it will_enlighten you on
the structure of a_language and how_syntactic malleability is a powerful
abstraction for solving_many_kinds of problems.

Enlightenment usually comes from_realizing_that it’