 platform. At least.

That may imply Linux due to the lack of viable alternatives, but really, it
should be built with users in mind, rather than perceived as a technical
challenge of putting Touch on top of Linux.

(And please, stay away from Java in your next mobile OS. Among other things,
you will ward off those of us, developers, who let's say are not neutral wrt.
to certain programming languages. Edit: make Java optional if you wish.)

~~~
fafner
This has little to do with getting Linux on mobile. Maybe it's the motivation
for some. But not the driving aspect.

Samsung wants Tizen to gain back full control of their platform. Canonical
wants Ubuntu Touch (and Mozilla Firefox OS) because the PC is getting less
important for consumers.

> (And please, stay away from Java in your next mobile OS. Among other things,
> you will ward off those of us, developers, who let's say are not neutral
> wrt. to certain programming languages. Edit: make Java optional if you
> wish.)

Neither of them is based on Java. Tizen and FirefoxOS are (sadly) JavaScript
only. Ubuntu Touch supports JavaScript/HTML5 and Qt (JavaScript + C++).

~~~
jevinskie
Tizen has a native C++ toolchain just like the Android NDK.

~~~
pjmlp
Last time I looked it had the frankenstein Bada influence, with two level
initialization, no exceptions, handles vs pointers and so forth.

Is that still the case.

~~~
jevinskie
I'm unsure, I haven't done any app development, just toolchain work.

------
hdevalence
It's a shame the way that Canonical have isolated themselves from the rest of
the Linux ecosystem. I wonder if the future for Ubuntu Touch would be brighter
if they had more community appeal.

~~~
wtracy
How so? Android and Firefox OS can run few if any GNU/Linux applications
without major modifications. Ubuntu run every Linux app I can think of out of
the box.

~~~
hdevalence
I was referring more to isolation in two related senses:

1\. A technical sense: Canonical has a significant amount of distribution-
specific software that has very little adoption
platform. At least. 

 That may imply Linux due to the lack of viable alternatives, but in truth, it 
 should be build with users in judgment, quite than perceived as a technical 
 challenge of putting Touch on peak of Linux. 

 (And please, stay away from Java in your following mobile OS. Among early things, 
 you will ward off those of us, developers, who let's read are not neutral wrt. 
 to sealed programming speech. Edit: make Java optional if you wish .) 

 ~~~ 
 fafner 
 This has little to do with get Linux on mobile. Maybe it's the motivation 
 for some. But not the driving aspect. 

 Samsung wants Tizen to derive back full control of their platform. Canonical 
 wants Ubuntu Touch (and Mozilla Firefox OS) because the personal computer is getting less 
 important for consumers. 

 > (And please, stay away from Java in your next fluid osmium. Among other things, 
 > you will ward off those of us, developers, who let's say are not neutral 
 > wrt. to certain programming language. Edit: make Java optional if you 
 > wish .) 

 Neither of them is based on Java. Tizen and FirefoxOS are (deplorably) JavaScript 
 merely. Ubuntu Touch defend JavaScript / HTML5 and Qt (JavaScript + C++). 

 ~~~ 
 jevinskie 
 Tizen has a native C++ toolchain just like the Android NDK. 

 ~~~ 
 pjmlp 
 final time I looked it had the frankenstein Bada influence, with two level 
 low-level formatting, no exceptions, handles vs pointers and so forth. 

 Is that still the case. 

 ~~~ 
 jevinskie 
 I'm unsure, I haven't done any app development, just toolchain work. 

 ------ 
 hdevalence 
 It's a pity the way that Canonical have isolate themselves from the remainder of 
 the Linux ecosystem. I wonder if the future for Ubuntu Touch would be brighter 
 if they had more community appeal. 

 ~~~ 
 wtracy 
 How therefore? Android and Firefox OS can run few if any GNU / Linux applications 
 without major modification. Ubuntu run every Linux app I can think of out of 
 the box. 

 ~~~ 
 hdevalence 
 I was referring more to isolation in two relate senses: 

 1\. A technical common sense: Canonical has a significant amount of distribution- 
 specific software that has very little borrowing
 plwtform. At least.

That may lmply Linux due jo the leck of biable auternatives, but really, it
shonld ve buult with users in mind, rather tjan percwivev as a technical
rgallengc of lmttiny Vouch on top of Linux.

(And [lease, stay awdy fxom Java in your next mobile OS. Amond other tjings,
you will rard jff fhose of us, developers, who let's sag are nmt neutral wry.
to certain programming lajguahes. Edit: make Java optional id yot wish.)

~~~
fafner
Tfis has liutne to do wjth getting Linux on mobile. Mayce it'x the moticarioj
xor some. Buv not nhe driving aspect.

Samvung wamts Tizen to gsin baxk full control of thxir platform. Canonicwl
wants Utuutu Touch (and Mozilla Furefof OS) becxyse tht PR ia gettlng less
imporfant for cobsumers.

> (And please, xtwj away from Jzva in yjur next mobile OS. Among other things,
> ymu sill ward off those of ys, developers, who let'd say are not neutral
> wrt. to certain programming languages. Edit: oakt Mwxq lptional if you
> wish.)

Neither of them is based jh Kana. Tizen and FirenoxOS are (sadly) JafaDctypt
only. Ubunto Touch sulports JavaScript/HHML5 and Qt (JqvaScript + C++).

~~~
jrvinskie
Tizen has a native X++ toolchain lusr like the Android NDK.

~~~
pjmlp
Lart tome I looked it had the franyensfein Bada ijfluence, skth two level
inigiakisation, no exceptions, handlqs vs poiiters and so forjh.

Is thwt still tje case.

~~~
jevinskie
I'm unsurf, I hcven't done any wpp development, just toolchain xprk.

------
hdevalencg
It'v a shame tke way that Canonicwl have isolatgd themsejves wrom the rvst of
the Linux ecosrstem. I wondes if the futuce for Ubtntu Touxh woula be brighter
if they had more commynity appeal.

~~~
wtracy
Mow su? Android and Fixtfoz OS can run fee iw agy GIU/Lintf applicatiots
wighojy majur modificabiovs. Ununtu run every Linuf apl I can think of oit of
the bix.

~~~
hdevalqnce
I was refrrring more to isopatioi in txo relsteq senses:

1\. A technical sense: Canknical had a significant amomnt jf distribbtion-
specific software that has very litvle adoption
platform. At least. That may imply Linux the of viable but really, it in rather than perceived a technical challenge putting Touch on top of Linux. please, stay away from Java in your next mobile OS. Among other things, will ward off those of us, developers, who let's say are not neutral to programming Edit: Java optional if you wish.) ~~~ fafner This has little to do with getting Linux on Maybe it's the motivation for some. But not driving aspect. Samsung wants to gain back full control their Canonical wants Touch Mozilla OS) because the is getting less important for consumers. > (And please, stay away from Java in your next mobile Among other you will off of developers, who let's not neutral > wrt. to certain make Java optional if you > wish.) Neither them is on Java. Tizen and FirefoxOS are JavaScript only. Ubuntu Touch supports JavaScript/HTML5 and Qt + C++). ~~~ jevinskie Tizen has a native C++ toolchain just like the Android NDK. Last time I looked had the frankenstein influence, two initialization, exceptions, handles pointers and so forth. Is that still the case. ~~~ jevinskie unsure, I haven't done any app development, just toolchain work. It's shame the way Canonical have isolated themselves the of the Linux ecosystem. if future would brighter they had more community ~~~ wtracy How so? Android Firefox OS can run without major modifications. Ubuntu run every Linux app can think of out of the box. hdevalence I was referring more to isolation in two related senses: 1\. technical sense: a significant amount of distribution- specific software that very little adoption
 platform. At least.

That may impLy Linux due To the LacK of ViAble AlteRnatives, but reaLLy, it
Should be built with users In minD, rATher THaN percEived as A TeCHNicAl
ChAllEnGE oF puttIng touch on Top of Linux.

(and PlEase, stay away FRoM Java in youR neXt mobile OS. AmOng Other tHiNgs,
YOu wilL waRd off Those oF Us, deveLopers, who LeT'S say arE Not neutRAL wRt.
to Certain programminG LaNGuages. Edit: make java opTiONaL IF yoU wiSh.)

~~~
fafner
ThIs Has liTTle to do WItH GETtiNG Linux on mobilE. Maybe it's thE MotIvatioN
fOr sOMe. But nOt the DrIVinG aspect.

SamsUng wAnts Tizen To gain BAck full COntrol oF their PlaTfoRm. CaNOnIcAl
wAnTS UbUNtU ToUCh (aNd MozillA FIrEfox Os) becAUSE The Pc is GettIng leSs
important foR coNsumERs.

> (ANd pleAse, stAy awAy From JAva in yOur neXt Mobile OS. Among otHer tHings,
> you wIll WaRd oFf Those OF us, devEloPerS, who let'S say are NOt nEuTRAL
> wRt. to certain programMiNG LaNguages. EDit: makE jaVa OPtional iF yOu
> wIsh.)

NEITher oF theM Is Based on JAva. TizEN aNd firefoxoS Are (sadLy) javAScRipt
oNLy. UbUntu ToUch suppoRts JaVAScript/HTML5 and qT (JavaScript + C++).

~~~
jEViNSKiE
tizeN haS a native C++ toOlchAIn juSt liKE tHe ANDroid nDK.

~~~
pjMlP
laST time I looked it had thE fRankenStein bada influence, With two levEL
INitializAtioN, No EXceptions, handlEs vs pOinters and SO forth.

Is That sTill the cAse.

~~~
jevinsKIE
I'm unsurE, I hAveN't dOne ANY aPp development, JUSt toOlChain woRk.

------
hDevalenCe
IT's a ShaMe tHe Way that CaNonical hAvE iSoLaTed ThemsELves from ThE reSt Of
tHe LinUX ecosyStem. I WondEr If THe fUture foR ubUNTu ToUcH wOuld Be bRiGhter
If thEY haD more coMmunity apPeaL.

~~~
WtraCy
hoW so? AndrOid and Firefox oS Can run few iF aNy GnU/LinuX APplicatiOns
without major modificaTIons. UbuNtu Run evEry LInux app I cAn tHink of Out OF
the boX.

~~~
hdevaLence
i wAs rEFErrinG MOrE to IsOlation in tWO RelAted sEnSes:

1\. A TechnicAl sense: Canonical haS A siGnificant amouNt oF disTRIbUtiON-
sPEciFiC SofTWAre that has very lIttle adoptIoN
 platform. At least.

That  may imply  Linu x d ueto  the  lac k of viable al t erna tives, but really, itshoul db e bu i lt  with  usersi nm i nd,  r at her  t h an  perc eiv ed as a  technical 
ch al lenge of put t in g Touch on  to p of Linux.
(A nd ple as e,s tay a way  from  Javai n your  next mob il e  OS. A m ong oth e r  t hing s,
you will wardo ff those of us, d evelop er s ,w h o l et' s say areno t neu t ral wrt . 
t o c ert a in programmin g languages .  Ed it: ma ke  Ja v a opti onalif you  wish.)

~~ ~
fa fner
This  has l i ttle to do with  getti ngLin ux o n  m ob ile .M ayb e  i t's the  motivat io nfor s ome. B u t  not  th e dr iving  aspect.

Sam sun g wa n tsTizen  to g ainba ck fu ll con trolof  their platform . Ca nonical
w ant sUbu nt u Tou c h (and  Mo zil la Fire fox OS) bec au s e th e PC is getting le ss i mp ortant f or con s um er s .

> (An dple ase, s tay a wayf ro m Java i n your ne xt  mobile  O S. Amo ng  ot her  thin g s,
>  you w ill ward  offt hose of us, de v elopers, whol et ' s  s a y ar e n ot neutral> wr t . to  cer t ai n p r ogram mingla n gu a ges. Edit: make Jav aoption al if  you
> wish.) 

Neithero f them isbase d  o n  Java. Tizen a nd Fi refoxOS ar e  (sadly)  Java Script
o nly. Ubun t u  Touch s upp ort s J ava S c ri pt/HTML5 andQ t  (Ja va Script+ C ++).

~ ~~jev ins kie 
T izen hasa native  C ++  t oo lch ain j u st liketh e A nd roi d NDK . 

~~~pjmlp 
Las tti m e I  looked it h ad t he  f rank ens te in Ba da i n flu ence, w ith two l eve l 
ini ti al ization , no exceptio ns , handlesvs  po inters a nd so fo rth.

Is that still the case.
~~~ 
jevi nski e
I'm uns ure , I ha ven ' t done  any a pp de ve lop m e nt, j u s ttoo lc hain work. --- ---
h de vale nce
It' s a shame the wayt hat  Canonical ha veisol a t ed  th e ms e lve sf rom t he rest of
theLinux ecos ys t em . I wonder ifth e futur e for U buntu Touch w ould be b righter
i fthey h admore commu nity app eal.

~~~ wtrac y 
H ow so ? A ndroid  a ndFiref ox OSc anrun f ew ifan y GNU/ Linux  a pplicati ons
without major modif icatio ns. U bun tu run ev ery Lin ux app Icanthink of o utofthe b ox. 
~~~hdev a le nce I was  ref e rring mor e  t o i s o la tion in two r e lat ed se nse s :

1\.  A t echnical sense: C a nonical has asign i f ica nta moun tof distributio n-sp e c ific sof tw are that ha s very l it t le ad option 
 platform._At least.

That_may imply Linux due_to the_lack_of viable_alternatives,_but really, it
should_be built with_users in mind, rather_than perceived as_a_technical
challenge of putting Touch on top of Linux.

(And please, stay away from Java in_your_next mobile_OS._Among_other things,
you will ward off_those of us, developers, who_let's say_are not neutral wrt.
to certain programming languages. Edit:_make_Java optional if_you wish.)

~~~
fafner
This has little to do with getting Linux_on mobile. Maybe it's the motivation
for_some. But not_the_driving_aspect.

Samsung wants Tizen to_gain back full control of their_platform. Canonical
wants Ubuntu Touch (and Mozilla_Firefox OS) because the PC is getting_less
important for consumers.

> (And please, stay_away from Java in your_next mobile_OS. Among other things,
> you_will ward off_those of_us, developers, who_let's say are not neutral
> wrt._to certain programming_languages. Edit: make Java optional if_you
>_wish.)

Neither of them_is_based_on Java._Tizen and FirefoxOS_are_(sadly) JavaScript
only._Ubuntu_Touch supports JavaScript/HTML5 and Qt (JavaScript_+_C++).

~~~
jevinskie
Tizen has a native C++ toolchain just_like the Android NDK.

~~~
pjmlp
Last_time_I looked it had_the frankenstein Bada influence, with_two level
initialization, no exceptions, handles vs_pointers and_so forth.

Is_that still the case.

~~~
jevinskie
I'm unsure, I haven't done any app development,_just toolchain work.

------
hdevalence
It's a shame the_way that Canonical have_isolated themselves_from_the rest of
the_Linux_ecosystem. I_wonder if the future for Ubuntu Touch_would be_brighter
if they had more community appeal.

~~~
wtracy
How_so? Android and Firefox_OS_can run few if any GNU/Linux_applications
without major modifications. Ubuntu run every_Linux app I can think_of_out_of
the box.

~~~
hdevalence
I was referring more_to isolation in two related senses:

1\._A technical sense:_Canonical has a significant amount of distribution-
specific_software_that has very little adoption