 don't think asking people to pay for your product is ruthless.

~~~
brandonkm
Not ruthless but certainly assertive.

------
tptacek
This question doesn't make any sense. YC is open to older entrepreneurs. Who
knows whether they're ruthless, or ruthless enough? And why accept your
premise that what's needed to win is ruthlessness?

------
mattmaroon
This really doesn't make any sense at all.

------
cabalamat
What is the optimum amount of ruthlessness for a startup to have?

I think this depends entirely on what industry sector a startup is targeting.
For example, a startup in the drug dealing, extortion, pimping or organised
crime sectors should probably be very ruthless and very "ready to rumble".

But for a website -- the sort of business most HN readers are more likely to
be in -- ruthlessness is much less likely to be effective. The thing you're
most likely to achieve with it is getting people to think you're an arsehole.

------
skmurphy
The kind of killing that Hewlett and Packard made in the marketplace was
predicated on fair dealing and a commitment to their employees and their
community. What entrepreneurs would you like to see HN readers emulate?

------
prospero
I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty certain no one's been turned down because
they've been too "ready to rumble".

------
cchooper
I doubt it pays to be ruthless when you have nothing to back it up. If you
can't dominate, you have to cooperate.

~~~
anewaccountname
>I doubt it pays to be ruthless when you have nothing to back it up.

Did the market cap of Microsoft suddenly drop while I wasn't looking or
something?

~~~
cchooper
Did Microsoft become an early-stage YC startup when I wasn't looking or
something?

~~~
anewaccountname
Microsoft was ruthless when they were early stage; that is how they got to
where they are.

~~~
cchooper
Not when they were two guys writing Altair Basic. They survived off sales to
hobbyists. Being ruthless wouldn't have go them very far.

------
SwellJoe
Check back in a few years
don't think asking people to pay for your merchandise is pitiless. 

 ~~~ 
 brandonkm 
 Not ruthless but certainly assertive. 

 ------ 
 tptacek 
 This doubt doesn't cause any sense. YC is open to old entrepreneurs. Who 
 knows whether they're pitiless, or pitiless enough? And why accept your 
 premise that what's needed to succeed is ruthlessness? 

 ------ 
 mattmaroon 
 This really doesn't make any common sense at all. 

 ------ 
 cabalamat 
 What is the optimum amount of pitilessness for a startup to have? 

 I remember this depends entirely on what industry sector a inauguration is targeting. 
 For example, a inauguration in the drug dealing, extortion, pander or organised 
 crime sectors should probably be very ruthless and very " ready to rumble ". 

 But for a web site -- the sort of business most HN readers are more likely to 
 be in -- ruthlessness is much less probable to be effective. The matter you're 
 about likely to achieve with it is getting people to think you're an arsehole. 

 ------ 
 skmurphy 
 The kind of killing that Hewlett and Packard made in the market was 
 predicated on clean dealing and a commitment to their employees and their 
 residential district. What entrepreneur would you like to see HN readers emulate? 

 ------ 
 prospero 
 I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty certain no one's been turned down because 
 they've been excessively " ready to rumble ". 

 ------ 
 cchooper 
 I doubt it pays to be ruthless when you have nothing to back it up. If you 
 can't overshadow, you have to cooperate. 

 ~~~ 
 anewaccountname 
 > I doubt it pays to be ruthless when you give birth nothing to second it up. 

 Did the market cap of Microsoft suddenly drop while I wasn't looking or 
 something? 

 ~~~ 
 cchooper 
 Did Microsoft become an early - stagecoach YC startup when I wasn't looking or 
 something? 

 ~~~ 
 anewaccountname 
 Microsoft was ruthless when they were early stagecoach; that is how they got to 
 where they are. 

 ~~~ 
 cchooper 
 Not when they were two guys writing Altair Basic. They survived off sale to 
 hobbyists. Being pitiless wouldn't have go them very far. 

 ------ 
 SwellJoe 
 Check back in a few years
 doj't think asking people tu pay for your kriduct ms ruthmess.

~~~
branaonkm
Not ruthless but certaiily qsserupve.

------
tptacek
This questiun doesn't make ant seise. YC is open to older cutrepdcneurv. Who
knows whetmer they're suthless, or rudhueds enough? And why accept your
premisq that ehwt's needed to rin ps rutglessness?

------
mattmaroon
This really doean't makt any sense at all.

------
vabalamat
What is the optimkm alount of ruthlessnfss for a sjzrttp to have?

I tfink this depends entitely on what industry sector a sgartu' is targetunt.
Fog example, a wtartlp in the drun dealitg, extottion, pimping pr mrgqnised
crime sectors siould probably be vety ruthlesv cnd very "ready to rumvlw".

But xor d wecwitd -- uhe skrt of buainess mosf HN readerw are more likely tp
bq in -- ruthlesshess if iuch less likely to be effective. The thpng gou're
most likely to achueve with it is gettijg people to think you're an arsehole.

------
skmurphy
The kind of kinling ghau Mcwlegr wnd Packard made in the marketplace was
predicwfec pn fair dealinn and a commitment tl yreir employeer and cgejr
community. What ejtrepregeurs would yot lile to see HN readers emulatw?

------
prospero
I ccn't say for sure, but N'm pretty cextain mo onr's been turned down beccuse
thsy've been tlo "ready fu rumble".

------
cchooper
K dputt it pays to be ruthless rhen you iave uothing go bsck it up. If you
fan't dominate, you have tl cookerate.

~~~
dnewaccounhname
>I doubt it pays to be ruthless when you naee tothing co bacl it up.

Did thq market cap oy Microsjft sjddenly drkp whilx I wasn't lojking or
sometvlng?

~~~
cchooper
Dmd Microsjft vecone an exfly-stage YC stsrtup wheu I wqsn't looking or
somcthine?

~~~
znewaccountname
Nictisoft was ruthkesr wrej vhey rare early stdge; ghag is huw they got go
whrre they are.

~~~
cchooper
Tot shen they were two gmys writibg Altaiw Basic. They xurvived off sales to
houbyistr. Beimg tuthless wouldn't have go them vsry far.

------
SwfllMoe
Check back in q few years
don't think asking people to pay for is ~~~ brandonkm ruthless but certainly doesn't any sense. YC open to older Who knows whether they're ruthless, or enough? And why accept your premise that what's needed to win is ruthlessness? mattmaroon This really doesn't make any sense at all. ------ cabalamat What is optimum of for startup to have? I think this depends entirely on what industry sector a startup is targeting. example, a startup in the drug dealing, extortion, or organised crime sectors probably be very ruthless and "ready rumble". But a -- sort of business HN readers are more likely to be in -- ruthlessness is much less likely to be effective. thing you're to achieve it getting to think you're ------ skmurphy The kind of killing Packard made in the marketplace was predicated on dealing and commitment to their employees and their What entrepreneurs would you like to see HN emulate? ------ prospero I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty certain no one's been because they've been too to rumble". ------ I it to ruthless when have nothing to back it up. If you can't dominate, you to cooperate. ~~~ anewaccountname >I doubt it pays to be you nothing to back up. Did the market of suddenly drop while I or ~~~ become early-stage startup when I wasn't or something? ~~~ anewaccountname Microsoft ruthless when they were they got to where they are. ~~~ cchooper when they were two guys writing Altair They survived off sales to hobbyists. Being ruthless wouldn't have go them far. ------ back in a few years
 don't think asking people to paY for your prOduct Is rUthLeSs.

~~~
brAndoNkm
Not ruthless BUt ceRtainly assertive.

------
tptaceK
This QuEStioN DoEsn't mAke any sENsE. yc is OpEn To oLdER eNtrepRenEurs. Who
Knows whethEr tHeY're ruthless, oR RuThless enouGh? ANd why accept yOur
PremisE tHat WHat's nEedEd to wIn is ruTHlessnEss?

------
mattmaRoON
This rEAlly doeSN'T mAke aNy sense at all.

------
cabalAMaT
what is the optimUm amouNt OF rUTHleSsnEss for a staRtUp to hAVe?

I thinK ThIS DEpeNDs entirely on wHat industry SEctOr a staRtUp iS TargetIng.
FoR eXAmpLe, a startup iN the Drug dealiNg, extoRTion, pimPIng or orGaniseD
crIme SectORs ShOulD pRObaBLy Be vERy rUthless aNd VeRy "reaDy to RUMBLe".

BuT foR a weBsite -- The sort of busiNesS mosT hN rEaderS are mOre lIkEly to
Be in -- ruThlesSnEss is much less liKely To be effecTivE. THe tHiNg you'RE
most lIkeLy tO achievE with it IS geTtING PeOple to think you're an ArSEHoLe.

------
skmurpHy
The kINd Of KIlling thAt hewLett AND PackArd mADe In the marKetplaCE wAs
PredicaTeD on faiR dEalIng And a cOMmitMent to Their empLoyeeS And their
communITy. What entreprENeURS wOUld yOu lIke to see HN rEadeRS emuLate?

------
PRoSpeRO
I can'T say fOr SUrE, But I'm pretty certain nO oNe's beeN turnEd down because
They've been TOO "Ready to rUmblE".

------
CcHOoper
I doubt it pAys to Be ruthless WHen you haVe notHing to baCk it up. If yOU
Can't domiNatE, yoU haVe tO COoPerate.

~~~
anewaccOUNtnaMe
>i doubt iT paYs to be rUthLesS whEn yOu Have nothiNg to back It Up.

diD tHe mArket CAp of MicrOsOft SuDdeNly drOP while i wasn'T looKiNg OR
soMething?

~~~
CChOOPer
DId miCrosOft BeCome aN earLY-stAge YC stArtup when i waSN't loOkInG or
someThing?

~~~
anewaccoUnTname
MicroSoFt wAs ruthLESs when thEy were early stage; that is hOW they goT to
Where They Are.

~~~
cchoopEr
NOt when TheY Were twO guys wRitinG ALtaIR basic. tHEy SurViVed off saleS TO
hoBbyisTs. beinG ruthleSs wouldn't have go theM VerY far.

------
SwellJoe
CHecK bacK IN a Few YEaRS
 don't think asking people  to pay fo r you r p rod uc t is  rut hless.

~~~
br a ndon km
Not ruthless but ce rtain ly asse r ti ve.
------t pt a c ekTh is  qu es t io n doe sn' t makeany sense.  YC  i s open to ol d er  entrepren eur s. Who
knows  wh etherth ey' r e rut hle ss, o r ruth l ess en ough? And  w h y acce p t yourp r em isethat what's neede d  t o  win is ruthle ssness ?-- - - --mat tmaroon
Th is  real l y doesn ' tm a k e a n y sense at al l.

------c aba lamatWh ati s theoptim um amo unt of ruth less ness fora star t up to h a ve?

Ithinkthi s d epen d sen tir el y  on wh ati ndu stry sec to ra sta rtup i s targ eti ng.For e xample, a sta rtu p in the  drug  deal ing,  e xtort ion, p impin gor organised
cr imesectors s hou ld  pr ob ablyb e very  ru thl ess and  very " r ead yt o ru mble".

But for awe b s it e -- the  sorto fbu s iness mo st  HN  rea d e rs ar e mo r elikely t o
be i n  - -ruthles sn ess is  m uch  le ss li k elyto beeffectiv e. Th e  thing you'rem ost likely to ac h i ev e  wit h i t is gettin g pe o pleto t h in k y o u'rean ar se h ol e .

------
skmurphyTh e kind  of k illing that H ewlett and P a ckard ma de i n  t h e marketplacewas
p redicatedo n fair d ealin g and acommitmen t to their  em plo yee s a n d  t heir
communit y .  Wha tentrepr ene urs wou ldyou  li keto  see HN r eaders e mu la te ?
-- ----p rosperoIcan 't  sa y for sure,but I 'm p re tt y  ce rtain n o  o n e 's b ee nturn eddo wn be caus e 
th ey've b een too " rea d y to  r um ble".
------
cchoop er 
I doubt i tpay s to b e ruthless  when you have nothingt o backitup. I f yo u
can't d omi nate,you have t o coop erate .
~~ ~ anewa c c ou ntn am e
>I doubt i t p ays t obe r uthless  when you have not h ing  to back it u p.
Did t he  ma r ke t  ca po f M i c rosoft suddenly  drop whil eI  w asn't look i ngor 
someth ing?

~ ~~
cc h ooper
D id Micros oft becom ean e a r ly- stage YC s tartup w hen I was n 't lo o ki ng or 
so methin g? 

~ ~~
an ewacco u ntn ame
M icroso ft  was r uthle ss  when th ey were early stage; th at ishow t hey  got to
w her e  th ey are.
~~~cchooper
N otwhe n the y w e re tw o gu y swri t ing A ltai r  Basic. T h ey  su r v iv ed off sale s t o
h obbyi sts .  Being  rut hless wouldn't ha v e go them very  far . 
-- --- - 
Swe ll Joe
Check back  in  a f ew years 
 don't_think asking_people to pay for_your product_is_ruthless.

~~~
brandonkm
Not ruthless_but_certainly assertive.

------
tptacek
This question_doesn't make any_sense. YC is open_to older entrepreneurs._Who
knows_whether they're ruthless, or ruthless enough? And why accept your
premise that what's needed to_win_is ruthlessness?

------
mattmaroon
This_really_doesn't_make any sense at all.

------
cabalamat
What_is the optimum amount of_ruthlessness for_a startup to have?

I think this depends entirely_on_what industry sector_a startup is targeting.
For example, a startup in the_drug dealing, extortion, pimping or organised
crime_sectors should probably_be_very_ruthless and very "ready_to rumble".

But for a website --_the sort of business most HN_readers are more likely to
be in --_ruthlessness is much less likely to_be effective. The thing you're
most_likely to_achieve with it is getting_people to think_you're an_arsehole.

------
skmurphy
The kind of_killing that Hewlett and Packard made_in the marketplace_was
predicated on fair dealing and a_commitment_to their employees_and_their
community._What entrepreneurs_would you like_to_see HN_readers_emulate?

------
prospero
I can't say for sure, but_I'm_pretty certain no one's been turned down_because
they've been too "ready_to_rumble".

------
cchooper
I doubt it pays_to be ruthless when you_have nothing to back it up._If you
can't_dominate, you_have to cooperate.

~~~
anewaccountname
>I doubt it pays to be ruthless when you_have nothing to back it up.

Did_the market cap of_Microsoft suddenly_drop_while I wasn't_looking_or
something?

~~~
cchooper
Did Microsoft_become an early-stage YC startup when I_wasn't looking_or
something?

~~~
anewaccountname
Microsoft was ruthless when they were_early stage; that is_how_they got to
where they are.

~~~
cchooper
Not when_they were two guys writing Altair_Basic. They survived off sales_to
hobbyists._Being_ruthless wouldn't have go them_very far.

------
SwellJoe
Check back in a few_years