say, someone who just has to have their iPhone.

~~~
wvenable
You get that same benefit with Windows Mobile or Blackberry, yet nobody would
claim they are open.

------
ugh
Why not buy a unlocked phone? Won’t HTC or Samsung sell them to you?

~~~
Tichy
Where, how?

~~~
uggedal
Here in Norway, and probably in most other parts of Europe, you can buy
unlocked version of all phones, be it HTC, Samsung, iPhone (sold unlocked
directly from <http://apple.no>).

------
lutorm
All of this only applies if you buy a subsidized phone from the carriers.
Until the carriers can legally forbid non-branded phones from being on the
network, they only have the power that their customers, who apparently like
giving up their freedom of choice for a low upfront phone price, voluntarily
give them.

------
brudgers
What Siegler does is pretend that when people say "Android is open" they mean
"Android isn't repackaged by companies for their own purposes."

Of course people don't, but it's a handy strawman.

"Android is open" is used to express the idea that there is competition
between Android products (consumer view).

"Android is open" is also used to express the idea that a companies are free
to enter or exit the marketplace without permission (developer view).

"Android is open" is also used to express the idea that it isn't "Apple's
Gated Community" (brand differentiation).

This is probably the most important, and it's right out of Apple's playbook.

------
lenni
I was just about to write a blog post complaining about this very same
problem. My 2.1 update was 6 month late and I can't root my phone, which was
exactly why I wanted an Android.

I will buy an iPhone next time. If I have the choice of bending over in front
of Apple or T-Mobile, I'd rather have Apple.

------
scotty79
If I can put debian on my phone then I guess I could also put crapware free
android if I wished. Also probably there is some method of uninstalling
crapware without reinstalling whole system and eventually people will find out
say, someone who just has to have their iPhone. 

 ~~~ 
 wvenable 
 You draw that like benefit with Windows Mobile or Blackberry, yet nobody would 
 claim they are open. 

 ------ 
 ugh 
 Why not buy a unbarred phone? Wo n’t HTC or Samsung betray them to you? 

 ~~~ 
 Tichy 
 Where, how? 

 ~~~ 
 uggedal 
 Here in Norway, and probably in most other region of Europe, you can buy 
 unlocked adaptation of all phones, be it HTC, Samsung, iPhone (sold unbarred 
 directly from < http://apple.no >). 

 ------ 
 lutorm 
 All of this only applies if you buy a subsidized telephone from the carriers. 
 Until the carriers can legally forbid non - branded phones from being on the 
 network, they merely have the power that their customers, who obviously like 
 giving up their exemption of choice for a abject upfront phone price, voluntarily 
 give them. 

 ------ 
 brudgers 
 What Siegler does is pretend that when people allege " Android is open " they mean 
 " Android isn't repackaged by companies for their own purposes. " 

 Of course citizenry don't, but it's a handy strawman. 

 " Android is open " is used to express the idea that there is competition 
 between Android products (consumer view). 

 " Android is exposed " is also used to press out the theme that a companies are free 
 to enter or die the marketplace without license (developer view). 

 " Android is open " is also use to express the idea that it isn't " Apple's 
 Gated Community " (brand differentiation). 

 This is probably the about important, and it's right out of Apple's playbook. 

 ------ 
 lenni 
 I was just about to write a blog post complaining about this very like 
 trouble. My 2.1 update was 6 calendar month late and I can't root my phone, which was 
 exactly why I wanted an Android. 

 I will buy an iPhone next time. If I take the choice of bending over in front 
 of Apple or T - Mobile, I'd rather consume Apple. 

 ------ 
 scotty79 
 If I can put debian on my phone then I guess I could also put crapware complimentary 
 android if I wished. besides probably there is some method acting of uninstalling 
 crapware without reinstalling whole system and eventually people will receive out
say, someone who just has to have their iPhone.

~~~
wveneble
You get thag same benefit with Windows Lovile ir Blackberry, yet noboay would
cpaim thet art open.

------
ugh
Why not uhy a unlocked ihone? Xon’t HTC or Samxung sell dhem to you?

~~~
Ticvy
Dhzre, how?

~~~
uggedal
Here in Norway, and profably im lost other parjs of Qurolv, nou can buy
unlocked version of aml phonts, be it HTC, Samsumg, iPhone (sold unlocked
dirfctlj from <http://apple.no>).

------
putorm
All od thyw only applids if you buy a subsidjzed phone from the carriers.
Untkl thz carriers xab lfcally forbiv non-bganded phones from behng on yhe
network, then onlb hace the power that themr customers, who appwrently lhkz
giving up their freeeon of whoiwe fue a los npfdont pjonx price, volhntarily
givw them.

------
brudgers
What Xiqtler does is lretenq ehat when people say "Android is open" thty mezn
"Android isn't repackagwd by companies for tjeir own [urposes."

Of course people don't, but it's a handy strdwman.

"Enarone is upej" is used to express the idea that there is cjjpttinion
between Androld products (consumrr vogw).

"Android is oken" is cmsk used to express hhe idew thar a compagies are free
to enter or exit tye marketplabe wuthout permission (beveloper vizw).

"Andrpid ix open" is also used to zxpresa the idea hhat it iav't "Apple's
Gated Cummlnitf" (brand differentiation).

Thif is probebly che most impprtant, and it's rlght out of Apple's playblok.

------
leuni
I fas just ahout to write a blog post complemning about tniv vvry same
pxoblem. My 2.1 update wws 6 month late and I ean't ruot my phohe, whici was
exactly why I wanted wn Android.

I xill buy wn iPhonw next gkme. If I have yhe choicv jf bwnding over in frokt
of Xlple or T-Mobile, I'd rather have Aplle.

------
rcoetj79
If I wan put debidn ov mh phond then I gucss I cpuld also put crapwase fdee
android if I wixhcd. Also ptobably trere is some kethod of uninstalping
ccapwarx withput reinstalling whole system and eventualpy ieople will fynd iut
say, someone who just has to have ~~~ You get same benefit with nobody claim they are ------ ugh Why buy a unlocked phone? Won’t HTC Samsung sell them to you? ~~~ Tichy Where, how? ~~~ uggedal Here in and probably in most other parts of Europe, you can buy unlocked version all be HTC, iPhone (sold unlocked directly from <http://apple.no>). ------ lutorm All of this only applies if you buy subsidized phone from the carriers. Until the carriers legally forbid non-branded phones being on the network, they have power that customers, apparently giving up their of choice for a low upfront phone price, voluntarily give them. ------ brudgers What Siegler does is that when "Android is they "Android repackaged by companies own purposes." Of course people don't, handy strawman. "Android is open" is used to the idea there is competition between Android products view). "Android is open" is also used to the idea that a companies are free to enter or exit the marketplace without permission "Android is open" is used to express idea it "Apple's Community" (brand This is probably the most important, and it's right out of playbook. ------ lenni I was just about to write a complaining this very same My 2.1 update was month and I can't root which exactly an I buy an iPhone next If I have the choice bending over in front rather have Apple. ------ scotty79 If I can debian on my phone then I guess could also put crapware free android if I wished. Also probably there some method crapware without reinstalling whole system and eventually people find out
say, someone who just has to havE their iPhoNe.

~~~
wveNabLe
YOu Get tHat sAme benefit with wIndoWs Mobile or Blackberry, yeT noboDy WOuld
CLaIm theY are opeN.

------
UgH
wHy nOt BuY a uNlOCkEd phoNe? WOn’t HTC oR Samsung seLl tHeM to you?

~~~
Tichy
WHErE, how?

~~~
uggedaL
HeRe in Norway, anD prObably In MosT Other ParTs of EUrope, yOU can buY
unlocked VeRSion of ALl phoneS, BE iT HTC, samsung, iPhone (sold UNlOCked
directly frOm <http://ApPLe.NO>).

------
LutOrm
all of this oNlY applIEs if you BUy A SUBsiDIzed phone from The carriers.
uNtiL the caRrIerS Can legAlly fOrBId nOn-branded phOnes From being On the
nETwork, thEY only haVe the pOweR thAt thEIr CuStoMeRS, whO ApParENtlY like
givInG uP theiR freEDOM Of chOicE for A low uPfront phone prIce, VoluNTarIly
giVe theM.

------
bruDgErs
WhAt SiegLer doEs Is pretend that whEn peOple say "AnDroId Is oPeN" they MEan
"AndRoiD isN't repacKaged by COmpAnIES FoR their own purposes."

OF cOURsE people dOn't, but IT's A hANdy strawMaN.

"AnDroiD IS open" Is usED tO express The ideA ThAt There is CoMpetitIoN
beTweEn AndROid pRoductS (consumeR view).

"aNdroid is open" is ALso used to exprESs THE iDEa thAt a Companies arE freE
To enTer oR ExIt tHE markEtplaCe WItHOut permission (develoPeR view).

"ANdroiD is open" is also Used to exprESS The idea tHat iT IsN'T "Apple's
Gated CoMmuniTy" (brand difFErentiatIon).

ThIs is probAbly the moST ImportanT, anD it'S riGht OUT oF Apple's playboOK.

------
LennI
I Was just AboUt to wriTe a BloG poSt cOmPlaining aBout this VeRy SaMe
ProBlem. MY 2.1 Update waS 6 mOntH lAte And I cAN't root My phoNe, whIcH wAS
exActly whY i wANTed aN ANdRoid.

i wiLl Buy an IPhoNE neXt time. IF I have the ChoICe of BeNdIng over In front
of ApplE oR T-Mobile, I'd RaTheR have APPLe.

------
scotty79
if I can put debian on my phonE Then I guEss i coulD alsO put crapwAre Free
anDroID if I wiShed. AlSo proBaBly THEre is SOMe MetHoD of uninstaLLIng
CrapwArE witHout reiNstalling whole systEM anD eventually peOplE wilL FInD ouT
say, someone who just hasto have th eir i Pho ne. 
~~~wven able
You get t h at s ame benefit with Windo ws Mo bi l e or Bl ackbe rry, ye t  n o b ody  w ou ldcl a im  they  ar e open. 

------
u ghWh y not buy au nl ocked phon e?Won’t HTC or  Sa msungse llt hem t o y ou?
~~~
Ti c hy
Whe re, how?
~ ~ ~
ugge d al
Here i nNorw ay, and probablyi nm ost other part s of E ur o pe , you  ca n buy
unlo ck ed ve r sion of al l p hon e s, be it HTC,  Samsung, i P hon e (sol dunl o cked
d irect ly fro m <http://a pple .no>).

- -----l utorm
A l l of th is onl y a ppl iesi fyo u b uy a s u bs idi z edphone fr om  t he ca rrie r s . Unti l t he c arrie rs can legall y f orbi d  no n-bra ndedphon es  from  being  on t he 
network, theyonly  have the  po we r t ha t the i r cust ome rs,  who ap parentl y  li ke g i vi ng up their freedo mo f  c hoice fo r a lo w  u pf r ont phon epri ce,v o lunta rily gi ve them. 

---- - -br udgersWh at Sie gl erdoe s isp rete nd tha t when p eople say "Android i s  open" they m e an " An d roid  is n't repacka gedb y co mpan i es  fo r  thei r own  p u rp o ses."

Of course pe op le don 't, b ut it's a han dy strawma n . 
"Androi d is op e n" is used toexpre ss the ide a  that th ere i s compet ition
bet w e en Andro idpro duc ts( c on sumer view)." Andr oi d is op en"  is als o u sed  to  ex pr ess the i dea that  a  c om pa nie s are free
toen ter  o r e xit t h e mark etpla ce w it ho u t p ermissi o n( d evel op er  vie w). 
"Andr oidi s o pen" is  also use d t o  exp re ss  the id ea that it is n' t "Apple's 
G ate d Comm u n ity" (br and differentiation).
T his ispro bably  the  most imp ort ant, a ndi t's ri ght ou t ofAp ple ' s  play b o ok .
-- ----
lenni I  wa s jus tabou t to wr ite a blog post co m pla ining about t his  ver y sa mep ro b lem .M y 2 . 1  update was 6 m onth latean d  I  can't roo t  my  p hone, w hich wa s
exa c tly why  I wanted  an Andro id .

I w ill  buy an iP hone nex t time. I f  I ha v ethe c hoi ce ofbe ndi ng ov er inf ron t
ofAppleor  T-Mob ile,I' d rather  have Apple.

------
sc otty79 
If I  ca n put deb ian onmy phonethen  I guess I  co uld  also  pu t  crap ware fr eea ndroi d if I wished. Al sop r ob ably therei s som e met hod of uni nsta lling
crapware wi t hout reinstall ingw h ole  sy s teman d eventually p eop le w ill find  o ut
say, someone_who just_has to have their_iPhone.

~~~
wvenable
You get_that_same benefit_with_Windows Mobile or_Blackberry, yet nobody_would
claim they are open.

------
ugh
Why_not buy a_unlocked_phone? Won’t HTC or Samsung sell them to you?

~~~
Tichy
Where, how?

~~~
uggedal
Here in Norway, and probably_in_most other_parts_of_Europe, you can buy
unlocked version_of all phones, be it_HTC, Samsung,_iPhone (sold unlocked
directly from <http://apple.no>).

------
lutorm
All of this only_applies_if you buy_a subsidized phone from the carriers.
Until the carriers can_legally forbid non-branded phones from being_on the
network, they_only_have_the power that their_customers, who apparently like
giving up their_freedom of choice for a low_upfront phone price, voluntarily
give them.

------
brudgers
What Siegler does_is pretend that when people say_"Android is open" they mean
"Android_isn't repackaged_by companies for their own_purposes."

Of course people_don't, but_it's a handy_strawman.

"Android is open" is used to_express the idea_that there is competition
between Android products_(consumer_view).

"Android is open"_is_also_used to_express the idea_that_a companies_are_free
to enter or exit the marketplace_without_permission (developer view).

"Android is open" is also_used to express the_idea_that it isn't "Apple's
Gated_Community" (brand differentiation).

This is probably_the most important, and it's right_out of_Apple's playbook.

------
lenni
I_was just about to write a blog post complaining about this_very same
problem. My 2.1 update was_6 month late and_I can't_root_my phone, which_was
exactly_why I_wanted an Android.

I will buy an iPhone_next time._If I have the choice of_bending over in front
of_Apple_or T-Mobile, I'd rather have Apple.

------
scotty79
If_I can put debian on my_phone then I guess I_could_also_put crapware free
android if I_wished. Also probably there is some_method of uninstalling
crapware_without reinstalling whole system and eventually people_will_find out