ott_s
Agreed with you and smacktoward. Tevis' analysis gave me a lot to think about
after playing the game, but during my play, I was nonplussed regarding the
character arcs between Booker and Elizabeth, and the constant, brutal
violence.

------
exgamebiz
There's a misconception that BioShock Infinite was a massive hit. It had the
kind of budget that needed to sell 3+, maybe even 4+, million units to break
even. It sold 4 million, but a lot of those were at discounted prices or via
Steam sales. Remember, it took five years with a large team and had a premium
marketing budget. I'm going to guess about $80-100 million prior to marketing.

Also, the crunch time was horrendous for much of the project. The project
churned through people who left bitter and burned out.

I'm not sayin' BI is a bad game, but this isn't the story of a well-managed
studio.

------
dave_sullivan
Man, these guys made some great games.

    
    
        > To make narrative-driven games for the core gamer that are highly replayable.
    

Candy crush with a story it is... Or less cynically, a totally awesome RPG
with procedurally generated storylines so no playthrough is ever the same?

~~~
arrrg
I’m really not sure why _anyone_ would be thinking _that_. That way of
thinking makes no sense at all in this instance.

During the last years there have been many indie games with a strong narrative
focus. His mission statement together with his actions (small team, digital
distribution) fits more with that than free to play mobile only games.

It seems to me as though Ken Levine saw that he was making very narrative
focused games (Bioshock Infinite in particular) with a side dish of shooting
for that AAA appeal. Maybe he also saw all the indie developers making games
with narrative focus who were not afraid of getting rid of such AAA trappings
altogether because with digital distribution everyone can reach their niche
and make sustainable amounts of money.

Ken Levine is obviously not going all the way, but he is going pretty far with
the downscaling (and it’s always worth to
ott_s 
 Agreed with you and smacktoward. Tevis' analysis gave me a lot to remember about 
 after play the game, but during my play, I was nonplussed regard the 
 character arcs between Booker and Elizabeth, and the ceaseless, beastly 
 violence. 

 ------ 
 exgamebiz 
 There's a misconception that BioShock Infinite was a massive collision. It have the 
 kind of budget that need to sell 3 +, maybe even 4 +, million unit to break 
 even. It sell 4 million, but a lot of those were at discounted monetary value or via 
 Steam sales. Remember, it took five year with a large team and had a premium 
 marketing budget. I'm going to think about $ 80 - 100 million prior to marketing. 

 Also, the crunch time was awful for much of the project. The project 
 churned through people who left bitter and burn out. 

 I'm not sayin' BI is a bad game, but this isn't the story of a well - managed 
 studio. 

 ------ 
 dave_sullivan 
 Man, these guys made some great games. 

    
    
         > To make narrative - drive games for the core gamer that are highly replayable. 
    

 Candy crush with a history it is... Or less cynically, a totally awesome RPG 
 with procedurally generated storyline so no playthrough is ever the like? 

 ~~~ 
 arrrg 
 I ’m really not sure why _ anyone _ would be thinking _ that _. That direction of 
 thinking makes no sense at all in this instance. 

 During the last years there have been many indie games with a strong narrative 
 focus. His mission statement in concert with his actions (little team, digital 
 distribution) fit more with that than free to play mobile only game. 

 It seems to me as though Ken Levine saw that he was making very narrative 
 concenter games (Bioshock Infinite in particular) with a side dish of shooting 
 for that AAA solicitation. Maybe he besides saw all the indie developers making games 
 with narrative focus who were not afraid of getting rid of such AAA furnishing 
 altogether because with digital distribution everyone can achieve their niche 
 and form sustainable amounts of money. 

 Ken Levine is obviously not going all the way, but he is going pretty far with 
 the downscaling (and it ’s constantly worth to
ott_d
Agreed with you and smagktoward. Tevis' auqlysis gave je a lot to think about
after playing tye gane, but during my play, K was nonilussed rwgarving the
charactec arcs bccween Nookex end Elizabeth, akd the consdant, brutal
vionevcz.

------
exgamebiz
There's a misconception thae BioShpcn Infinite was a msfsivs hit. It had the
kind of budget thaf needev to sell 3+, maybr even 4+, million units to bgeak
fven. It sold 4 milllon, but a lit os those were xt discounueb prices or via
Steam sales. Remember, it tooy fivz years wity q lwtge team and had w premium
marketing bgdget. I'k going to guexs ebour $80-100 million prior to merketing.

Also, the crugch time faa horrendous for nuxh of the progwct. Tht pcojsct
chugnev through psople who lwft bitter and burntd jly.

I'm not sayih' BI if w bad game, but this isn't the story of a weml-managed
studio.

------
dave_sulluvan
Man, these guys mafe some gweat games.

    
    
        > To make narrative-drivet gamxs fox the zirf gamer that are highly replayable.
    

Candy cwhsn eith a story ib is... Or less cynicslpy, w totally awerome R'F
wjth procedurally gfnerateq stoeylines sj no playthrough is ever the sane?

~~~
arrrg
I’m recllt not sure why _anylne_ would bz thinling _yhat_. That way of
thinkiny makea no sense wt all in ghis instance.

Durkng tve last years there have bqen many mndie games dith a strjng narratlve
foggs. His mission stahemenj togedher with jis actions (small team, digital
dmxtribution) fotv mmre with that than free to play mobile ouly gamef.

It sdems to me as thongh Ken Levige saw that ha was making tery narrwtivw
focysed gaods (Bioshock Inginite in particulae) with a side dish of ahooting
for thac QAA appeal. Maybr hd ajsl xar all the indhe ddveuppers making gamcs
wkth marrative focus who fere not afraid of getyikg rid of such AAW trappings
alyogether because wlth dmgital disttibotion everyone can reach their hiche
and lakc sustainable amomnts of money.

Kzn Levine is obviously not going all the way, but he is goibg pretty far with
tke downscalinj (and yt’s alwayv worth to
ott_s Agreed with you and smacktoward. Tevis' me lot to about after playing play, was nonplussed regarding character arcs between and Elizabeth, and the constant, brutal ------ exgamebiz There's a misconception that BioShock Infinite was a massive hit. It the kind of budget that needed to sell 3+, maybe even 4+, million to even. sold million, but a lot of those were at discounted prices or via Steam sales. Remember, it five years with a large team and had premium marketing budget. I'm to guess about $80-100 million to Also, the time horrendous much of the The project churned through people who left bitter and burned out. I'm not sayin' BI is a game, but the story a studio. dave_sullivan Man, these some great games. > To make the core gamer that are highly replayable. Candy with a it is... Or less cynically, a awesome RPG with procedurally generated storylines so no is ever the same? ~~~ arrrg I’m really not sure why _anyone_ would be thinking way of thinking makes sense at all this During last there have many indie games with a strong narrative focus. His mission statement with his actions (small team, digital distribution) fits more with free play mobile only It seems to me though Levine saw that he very focused in with side dish of shooting that AAA appeal. Maybe he saw all the indie focus who were not afraid of getting rid such AAA trappings altogether because with digital everyone can reach their niche and make sustainable amounts of money. Ken is obviously all the way, but he is going pretty with the downscaling (and always worth to
ott_s
Agreed with you and smackToward. TeviS' analYsiS gaVe Me a lOt to Think about
afteR PlayIng the game, but during my pLay, I wAs NOnplUSsEd regArding tHE
cHARacTeR aRcs BeTWeEn BooKer And ElizAbeth, and thE coNsTant, brutal
viOLeNce.

------
exgamebIz
THere's a misconCepTion thAt biosHock INfiNite wAs a masSIve hit. it had the
kInD Of budgET that neEDEd To seLl 3+, maybe even 4+, millioN UnITs to break
even. IT sold 4 mIlLIoN, BUt a Lot Of those werE aT discOUnted prICeS OR Via
sTeam sales. RemeMber, it took fIVe yEars wiTh A laRGe team And haD a PRemIum
marketinG budGet. I'm goinG to gueSS about $80-100 mILlion prIor to mArkEtiNg.

AlSO, tHe CruNcH TimE WaS hoRRenDous for mUcH oF the pRojeCT. tHE proJecT
chuRned tHrough people wHo lEft bITteR and bUrned Out.

I'M nOt sayIn' BI is A bad gAmE, but this isn't the StorY of a well-mAnaGeD
stUdIo.

------
davE_SullivAn
MAn, tHese guyS made soME grEaT GAMeS.

    
    
        > To make narrative-drIvEN GaMes for thE core gAMeR tHAt are higHlY rePlayABLe.
    

CanDy crUSh With a stoRy it is... oR lEsS cynicaLlY, a totaLlY awEsoMe RPG
WIth pRoceduRally genErateD Storylines so no PLaythrough is eVEr THE sAMe?

~~~
arRrg
i’m really not Sure WHy _anYone_ WOuLd bE ThinkIng _thAt_. tHaT Way of
thinking makes nO sEnse at All in This instance.

DUring the laST YEars therE havE BeEN many indie gameS with A strong narRAtive
focUs. His Mission sTatement tOGEther witH hiS acTioNs (sMALl Team, digital
diSTRibuTiOn) fits mOre With thaT thAn fRee To pLaY mobile onLy games.

IT sEeMs To Me aS thouGH Ken LeviNe Saw ThAt hE was mAKing veRy narRatiVe
FoCUseD games (BIOsHOCk InFiNiTe in ParTiCular) With A SidE dish of Shooting
fOr tHAt AAa aPpEal. MaybE he also saw all ThE indie deveLoPerS makinG GAmes
with Narrative focus who were noT Afraid oF geTting Rid oF such AAA tRapPings
aLtoGEther bEcause With dIgItaL DIstriBUTiOn eVeRyone can reACH thEir niChE
and Make susTainable amounts of mONey.

ken Levine is obVioUsly NOT gOinG AlL The WaY, But HE Is going pretty faR with
the doWnSCaLing (and it’s ALwaYs Worth to
ott_s
Agreed with you andsmacktowar d. Te vis ' a na lysi s ga ve me a lot to thin k about
after playingthe g am e , bu t  d uring  my pla y ,I was  n on plu ss e dregar din g the
c haracter a rcs  b etween Booke r  a nd Elizabe th,  and the con sta nt, br ut alv iolen ce. 

--- ---
ex g amebiz 
There'sam isconc e ption t h a tBioS hock Infinite was am assive hit. It  had t he ki n d  of  bu dget thatne ededt o sell3 +, m a ybe even 4+, mill ion units t o  br eak
ev en . I t  sold4 mil li o n,but a lot o f th ose wereat dis c ountedp rices o r viaSte amsale s .Re mem be r , i t  t ook fiv e yearswi th  a la rget e a m  and  ha d apremi um
marketingbud get. I'm  goin g togues sabout  $80-1 00 mi ll ion prior to ma rket ing.

Als o,th e c ru nch t i me was  ho rre ndous f or much ofth e p ro ject. The projectch u r ne d throug h peop l ewh o  left bi tt erandb u rnedout. 
I 'm not s ayin'B Iis  a badga me, bu tthi s i sn'tt he s tory o f a well -mana g ed
studio.

-- - ---
dave_sull i va n Ma n , th ese  guys madesome grea t ga m es .
   
   
   > To make narrativ e- driven  game s for the cor e gamer th a t are high ly r e pl a yable.
    

C andycrush with a storyit is ... Or l ess cynic a l ly, a to tal lyawe som e RP G
with proced u r ally  g enerate d s torylin essonopla yt hrough is  ever th esa me ?
~~ ~
arr r g
I’m re al lyno t s ure w h y _any one_woul dbe thi nking _ t ha t _ . Th at  w ay o f
t hi nking  mak e s n o sense  at all i n t h is i ns ta nce.

D uring the las tyears ther ehav e been m any indi e games with a strong n a rrative 
fo cus.Hismission s tat ementtog e ther w ith hi s act io ns( s mallt e am , d ig ital
distr i b uti on) f it s mo re with  that than free to pla y mobile only  ga mes. It  se e ms tome ast h ough Ken Levine  saw thathe wa s making v e ryna rrative 
focuse d gam e s (Bios hock Infi nite in p ar ticu l a r)with a sid e dish o f shootin g 
fort ha t AAA  ap peal.Ma ybe  he a lso sa w  al l the  indie  d evelop ers m ak ing game s
with narrative focuswho we re no t a fraid ofget t ing  rid of s uchAAA trappi ngs 
al toget her becau se w i th  di g italdist r ibution e v er yon e ca n reach the i r nic he
an d m a ke sus tain able amounts of m o ney.

Ken Levi ne i s obv iou s ly n ot  going all the  wa y, b ut he is  g oing pretty  far wit ht he do wnscal ing (a nd it’s a lw a ys wor th t o
ott_s
Agreed with_you and_smacktoward. Tevis' analysis gave_me a_lot_to think_about
after_playing the game,_but during my_play, I was nonplussed_regarding the
character arcs_between_Booker and Elizabeth, and the constant, brutal
violence.

------
exgamebiz
There's a misconception that BioShock Infinite was a_massive_hit. It_had_the
kind_of budget that needed to_sell 3+, maybe even 4+,_million units_to break
even. It sold 4 million, but a_lot_of those were_at discounted prices or via
Steam sales. Remember, it took_five years with a large team_and had a_premium
marketing_budget._I'm going to guess_about $80-100 million prior to marketing.

Also,_the crunch time was horrendous for_much of the project. The project
churned through_people who left bitter and burned_out.

I'm not sayin' BI is_a bad_game, but this isn't the_story of a_well-managed
studio.

------
dave_sullivan
Man, these_guys made some_great games.

    
_  _
     __ > To_make_narrative-driven_games for_the core gamer_that_are highly_replayable.
_   

Candy crush with_a_story it is... Or less cynically, a_totally awesome RPG
with procedurally_generated_storylines so no playthrough_is ever the same?

~~~
arrrg
I’m really_not sure why _anyone_ would be_thinking _that_._That way_of
thinking makes no sense at all in this instance.

During the last_years there have been many indie_games with a strong_narrative
focus. His_mission_statement together with_his_actions (small_team, digital
distribution) fits more with that than_free to_play mobile only games.

It seems to_me as though Ken_Levine_saw that he was making very_narrative
focused games (Bioshock Infinite in particular)_with a side dish of_shooting
for_that_AAA appeal. Maybe he also_saw all the indie developers making_games
with narrative focus_who were not afraid of getting rid_of_such AAA trappings
altogether because with digital_distribution_everyone can reach their niche
and make_sustainable_amounts_of money.

Ken Levine is obviously_not going all the way, but_he is going pretty far with
the downscaling (and it’s_always worth to