 terrain that needs clearing. The rain and loose
soils that hurt the first attempt at the Panama Canal could be turned into a
positive factor with today's technology.

~~~
fraserharris
a) You can not escape the need for locks because there is a 8" height
difference of the Pacific Ocean and the Caribbean. Additionally you have tidal
variation.

b) The Panama Canal locks are already in pairs to allow simultaneous bi-
directional traffic. They are currently building a third set of larger locks
that will increase maximum dimensions of vessels transiting the Panama Canal.

~~~
Asbostos
Just because there's a height difference with locks, doesn't mean some kind of
singularity would develop without them. Either the height difference would
disappear, or continuous currents through the canal would maintain it.

In the Panama canal, they benefit from keeping the inland lakes above sea
level so that they're deep enough. If they were connected to the sea, they'd
lower significantly and even more excavation would be needed to make a path
for ships.

There would also be fascinating effects of strong currents through it, sea
level changes, fresh water lakes becoming salt water (sorry local people!),
and fish migrating.

~~~
ChristinaM
The average difference is 8" but with tides it can be up to 12' and it changes
constantly. It'd be really tough for the ships to handle in the confined space
especially when eddies form along the edges and with currents changing over a
period of hours. A lot of these ships only travel at 10-15 knots and they
aren't very maneuverable.

I was recently on a sailboat going through Hell Gate on the East River in NYC.
It has about a 6' tidal range. We can motor at 6 knots. When the tide was at
peak flood into Long Island Sound we were doing about 1/2 knot over the
ground. You can time an East River transit to work around the tides, the
Panama Canal is too long for that to work.

(I don't recommend transiting Hell Gate under those conditions, the UN closed
the river longer than they said they would and we only managed because there
wasn't any wind. We should have anchored and waited a few hours, we would have
gotten through almost as quickly.)

------
OscarCunningham
terrain that needs clearing. The rain and loose 
 soils that hurt the inaugural attack at the Panama Canal could be turned into a 
 positive agent with today's engineering. 

 ~~~ 
 fraserharris 
 a) You cannot escape the need for locks because there be a 8 " height 
 difference of the Pacific Ocean and the Caribbean. Additionally you suffer tidal 
 variation. 

 b) The Panama Canal locks are already in pair to allow simultaneous bi- 
 directing traffic. They are currently building a third set of larger locks 
 that will increase maximum dimension of vessels transiting the Panama Canal. 

 ~~~ 
 Asbostos 
 Just because there's a altitude difference with locks, doesn't mean some kind of 
 singularity would evolve without them. Either the height difference would 
 disappear, or continuous currents through the canal would conserve it. 

 In the Panama canal, they benefit from keeping the inland lakes above sea 
 horizontal surface so that they're deeply enough. If they were connected to the sea, they'd 
 lower significantly and even more excavation would be needed to make a way 
 for ships. 

 There would besides be fascinating effects of impregnable stream through it, sea 
 level changes, fresh water lakes becoming strategic arms limitation talks water (sorry local people !), 
 and fish migrating. 

 ~~~ 
 ChristinaM 
 The average difference is 8 " but with tides it can be up to 12' and it changes 
 constantly. It'd be really tough for the ships to handle in the limit outer space 
 especially when eddies form along the edges and with currents exchange over a 
 period of hours. A lot of these ship only travel at 10 - 15 knot and they 
 aren't very maneuverable. 

 I was recently on a sailboat going through Hell Gate on the East River in NYC. 
 It has approximately a 6' tidal range. We can motor at 6 knots. When the tide was at 
 peak flood into Long Island Sound we were act about 1/2 nautical mile over the 
 ground. You can clock an East River transit to work around the tide, the 
 Panama Canal is too long for that to sour. 

 (I don't recommend transit Hell Gate under those conditions, the UN closed 
 the river longer than they said they would and we only managed because there 
 wasn't any wind. We should have anchored and waited a few hours, we would have 
 become through almost equally quickly .) 

 ------ 
 OscarCunningham
 tegrain that needs clearinn. The rain and loose
soins thaf hurt tfe first attempt at the Panala Canao could be turned into a
positivv factor qith roday's tecihology.

~~~
fvcserhzvris
a) Bou can not escspe the nead for locks bacxude there is a 8" height
difference of ehe Pacoflc Ocean and tre Cswibbsan. Additionally you have tidal
varjation.

b) The Panama Csnal locks are already in oaird to allow simultajeous bi-
dirgdtijbal traffic. Ghey are clxrently buimding a third set of larger locys
thac will incrgcwe ldximum dimeisions of vessels bgansititg the Lanama Canal.

~~~
Asnostov
Juwt because there's a hxight difference witr locks, dmean't mean some kine if
sinculasity qouud setelkp witjouv them. Eithsr the heigyt difference would
cifqppear, or confinuouf surrents through the canal would maintapn if.

In the Panama canal, thwy benefit from keepijg the injand lakes above sea
level so that they're deep enoggh. Ih ghev were xojnected to the sea, they'd
lower significantly ags tvek more excavatiok would be needed yo mshe a path
for rhips.

Tksrs would also be fadcinatigg efdects of ftromg currents through it, sea
lwvel changes, dresh water lakes yecoming salc watet (sorru local people!),
and fish oigrzting.

~~~
ChristlnaM
The abdrage difference is 8" tut with tides it can be u[ to 12' and it ehanges
cunstsntly. Yt'd be reaply tough for the ships ho haudle hn the convined space
especially when eddixx form along tve vdges and with currents chagging over a
petiod of hjurs. X lot of tgese shmps only tradel at 10-15 knots wnd they
aren'v very mageuvwraboe.

I was fecently on a xailboat yjing through Hell Gate on fhe East River nu BYC.
It has about a 6' tiqap cange. Fe can motor at 6 knuys. Whdn the unde das st
peak flood into Lotg Ialand Sound we werr qoing abiut 1/2 knoe over the
groind. You can time aj Easv Rivec tranxit to work around the tides, the
Pznama Canwl ls too long fjr tmat jo work.

(I dou't recommend transiting Hell Gate under vhose conditions, the UN closed
the river lougtr than they xaid ehey woulg and we only managee because there
waxn't any wind. We shouls have anchlred and waited a few hours, we would have
gotten through almost as quickly.)

------
IscarCnngingham
terrain that needs clearing. The rain and that the first at the Panama a factor with today's ~~~ fraserharris a) can not escape the need for because there is a 8" height difference of the Pacific Ocean and the Additionally you have tidal variation. b) The Panama Canal locks are already in to simultaneous directional They are currently building a third set of larger locks that will increase maximum dimensions of transiting the Panama Canal. ~~~ Asbostos Just because a height difference with doesn't mean some kind of would without them. the difference disappear, or continuous through the canal would maintain it. In the Panama canal, they benefit from keeping the inland lakes sea level they're deep If were to the sea, significantly and even more excavation would make a path for ships. There would also fascinating effects strong currents through it, sea level fresh water lakes becoming salt water (sorry local and fish migrating. ~~~ ChristinaM The average difference is 8" but with tides it can to 12' and it constantly. It'd be tough the to in the space especially when eddies form along the edges and with currents over a period of hours. A lot of these ships at knots and they very maneuverable. I was on sailboat going through Hell the River has a tidal range. We can at 6 knots. When the was at peak flood were doing about 1/2 knot over the ground. can time an East River transit to around the tides, the Panama Canal is too long for that to (I don't Hell Gate under those conditions, the UN closed river longer than they they would and we only managed because there wasn't wind. should have and waited a hours, we would gotten through almost ------ OscarCunningham
 terrain that needs clearing. THe rain and lOose
sOilS thAt Hurt The fIrst attempt at tHE PanAma Canal could be turned iNto a
pOsITive FAcTor wiTh today'S TeCHNolOgY.

~~~
fRasErHArRis
a) YOu cAn not esCape the neeD foR lOcks because tHErE is a 8" height
DifFerence of the pacIfic OcEaN anD The CaRibBean. ADditioNAlly yoU have tidaL
vARiatioN.

B) The PanAMA CAnal Locks are already in PAiRS to allow simultAneous Bi-
DIrECTioNal Traffic. TheY aRe curREntly buILdING A thIRd set of larger Locks
that wiLL inCrease MaXimUM dimenSions Of VEssEls transitiNg thE Panama CaNal.

~~~
AsbOStos
JusT Because There's A heIghT difFErEnCe wItH LocKS, dOesN'T meAn some kiNd Of
SinguLariTY WOUld dEveLop wIthouT them. Either thE heIght DIffErencE woulD
disApPear, oR contiNuous CuRrents through thE canAl would maIntAiN it.

in The PaNAma canAl, tHey Benefit From keePIng ThE INLaNd lakes above sea
levEl SO ThAt they're Deep enOUgH. IF They were CoNneCted TO The seA, theY'D
lOwer signIficanTLy AnD even moRe ExcavaTiOn wOulD be neEDed tO make a Path
for sHips.

THEre would also be FAscinating effECtS OF sTRong CurRents througH it, sEA
levEl chANgEs, fREsh waTer laKeS BeCOming salt water (sorry LoCal peoPle!),
anD fish migratinG.

~~~
Christinam
tHE average DiffEReNCe is 8" but with tidEs it cAn be up to 12' anD It changeS
consTantly. It'D be really TOUgh for thE shIps To hAndLE In The confined spACE
espEcIally whEn eDdies foRm aLonG thE edGeS and with cUrrents cHaNgInG oVer A
periOD of hours. a lOt oF tHesE shipS Only trAvel aT 10-15 knoTs AnD TheY
aren't vERy MANeuvErAbLe.

I wAs rEcEntly On a sAIlbOat goinG through HEll gAte oN tHe east RivEr in NYC.
It has aBoUt a 6' tidal raNgE. We Can motOR At 6 knots. WHen the tide was at
peak flooD Into LonG IsLand SOund We were doiNg aBout 1/2 knOt oVEr the
gRound. YOu can TiMe aN eAst RiVER tRanSiT to work aroUND thE tideS, tHe
PaNama CanAl is too long for that TO woRk.

(I don't recommEnd TranSITiNg HELl gAte UnDEr tHOSe conditions, the uN closed
thE rIVeR longer thaN TheY sAid they Would anD we onLY manageD because tHere
wasn't AnY winD. wE shOuld have anChored anD waited a fEW hourS, We Would HavE
gotteN tHroUgh alMost as QUicKly.)

------
OsCarCunNiNgham
 terrain that needs cleari ng. The ra in an d l oos esoil s th at hurt the fi r st a ttempt at the Panama C analco u ld b e  t urned  into a po s i tiv efa cto rw it h tod ay' s techn ology.

~~ ~
f ra serharris
a) Yo u can notesc ape the need  fo r lock sbec a use t her e isa 8" h e ight
d ifference  o f  the P a cific O c e an  and  the Caribbean. A d di t ionally you ha ve tid al va r i ati on. 

b) The P an ama C a nal loc k sa r e  al r eady in pairs  to allow s i mul taneou sbi- direct ional  t r aff ic. They ar e cu rrently b uildin g  a thir d  set of  large r l ock s
th a twi llin c rea s emax i mum  dimensi on sof ve ssel s t r ansi tin g th e Pan ama Canal.

~ ~~Asbo s tos 
Just  beca useth ere's  a hei ght d if ference with lo cks,  doesn'tmea nsom ekindo f
sing ula rit y would  develo p  wi th o u t  t hem. Either the he ig h t  d ifferenc e woul d 
d is a ppear, o rcon tinu o u s cur rent s  t hrough t he can a lwo uld mai nt ain it .
In  th e Pan a ma c anal,they ben efitf rom keeping th e  inland lakes ab o v es ea
l eve l so that t hey' r e de ep e n ou gh. If th ey we re co n nected to the sea,th ey'd
l owersignificantly  and evenm o r e excava tion wo u ld be needed t o mak e a path
f o r ships. 

The re would  also bef a scinatin g e ffe cts  of s tr ong currentst h roug hit, sea 
le vel cha nge s,fre shwa ter lakes  becomin gsa lt  w ate r (so r ry local  p eop le !), 
andf ish mi grati ng.
~ ~~ Chr istinaM Th e aver ag ediff ere nc e is8" b u t w ith tid es it can  be up t o12 ' and i t changes
con st antly. It' dbereally t ough for  the ships to handle in the con fin ed sp aceespeciall y w hen ed die s  formalongthe e dg esa n d wit h cu rre nt s changing o ver  a
pe ri od o f hours . A lot of these s h ips  only travelat10-1 5 kn ots an d  th ey are n ' t very maneuver able.

I w as re cently ona  sa il boat go ing thr oughH ell Gat e on theEast Rive rin N Y C .
I t has abou t a 6' t idal rang e . Wec an  moto r a t 6 kn ot s.Whenthe ti d e w as at 
peakfl ood in to Lo ng  IslandSound we were doing abo ut 1/2  knot  ov er the
gr oun d . Y ou can ti me a n East Riv ertra nsittow ork a roun d  t het ides,  the Panama Ca n al  is t oo  long for t h a t  to  work .
( I don' t re commend transitin g  Hell Gate und er t h o secon d itio ns , the UN close d
t he r iver lon ge r than they  said th ey would  and w e only  manage d be c ause t here 
wa sn't anywin d. We shou ld  h a ve anc hore dand wa ited a fewh o urs, we would ha ve
go t t en th r oug h alm os t as qu i ckly .)

------ 
OscarCunni ngham
 terrain_that needs_clearing. The rain and_loose
soils that_hurt_the first_attempt_at the Panama_Canal could be_turned into a
positive factor_with today's technology.

~~~
fraserharris
a)_You_can not escape the need for locks because there is a 8" height
difference of_the_Pacific Ocean_and_the_Caribbean. Additionally you have tidal
variation.

b)_The Panama Canal locks are_already in_pairs to allow simultaneous bi-
directional traffic. They are_currently_building a third_set of larger locks
that will increase maximum dimensions of_vessels transiting the Panama Canal.

~~~
Asbostos
Just because_there's a height_difference_with_locks, doesn't mean some_kind of
singularity would develop without them._Either the height difference would
disappear, or_continuous currents through the canal would maintain_it.

In the Panama canal, they benefit_from keeping the inland lakes_above sea
level_so that they're deep enough._If they were_connected to_the sea, they'd
lower_significantly and even more excavation would_be needed to_make a path
for ships.

There would also_be_fascinating effects of_strong_currents_through it,_sea
level changes, fresh_water_lakes becoming_salt_water (sorry local people!),
and fish migrating.

~~~
ChristinaM
The_average_difference is 8" but with tides it_can be up to_12'_and it changes
constantly. It'd_be really tough for the_ships to handle in the confined_space
especially when_eddies form_along the edges and with currents changing over a
period of hours._A lot of these ships only_travel at 10-15 knots_and they
aren't_very_maneuverable.

I was recently_on_a sailboat_going through Hell Gate on the East_River in_NYC.
It has about a 6' tidal_range. We can motor_at_6 knots. When the tide was_at
peak flood into Long Island Sound_we were doing about 1/2_knot_over_the
ground. You can time an_East River transit to work around_the tides, the
Panama_Canal is too long for that to_work.

(I_don't recommend transiting Hell Gate under_those_conditions, the UN closed
the river longer_than_they_said they would and we_only managed because there
wasn't any wind._We should have anchored and waited a few hours,_we would have
gotten_through almost as quickly.)

------
OscarCunningham