'm still having trouble understanding where the complexities arise. I
have no difficulty believing that they _do_ arise, but I would like to
understand how it happens if you're willing to take the time to explain.

I would think that rigid bodies -- either perfectly rigid or semi-rigid via
springs & struts -- would not handle all that differently in verlet since
force is explicit (typo on your part?) and a v/p estimate is available from
the last position, albeit with a bit more phase lag than usual. Does the phase
lag induce nasty oscillations or something?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
We can make semi-rigid bodies in verlet using strings are shape matching
techniques, but the pressure needed to maintain shape necessarily interferes
with stacking or any other kind of stable contact. Actually, their was a
solution to this in a shape matching paper by Matthias [1] but I was never
able to get it to work right.

I've played around a lot with Verlet, it is very powerful in certain
cases...especially since you can just update the position of a mass directly
(very easy to program, very mouse/touch input friendly). However, a rigid body
physics engine is probably better for most game use cases.

[1] <http://www.matthiasmueller.info/realtimephysics/>

~~~
jjoonathan
Cool, thanks for the link!

------
arocks
The spider has been extremely well done. Spent a lot of time playing with it.

------
drorweiss
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. It's amazing what you can do inside the browser
these days.

Any thoughts of integrating it with SVG? SVG is super useful for drawing and
manipulating shapes in the browser.

~~~
subprotocol
Thank you! I have actually not played around with SVG yet. Is it as easy as
canvas? I am very new to canvas and found it to be super easy to pick up and
run with.

~~~
drorweiss
I haven't played with canvas yet... it's quite powerful... checkout
[http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-svg-uses-will-make-
yo...](http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-
' m still having trouble understanding where the complexity rebel. I 
 have no difficulty believe that they _ do _ rise, but I would like to 
 understand how it happen if you're uncoerced to take the time to explain. 

 I would think that rigid body -- either perfectly rigid or semi - rigid via 
 springs & struts -- would not handle all that differently in verlet since 
 military unit is explicit (typo on your part ?) and a five / p estimate is available from 
 the last military position, albeit with a bit more phase lag than usual. Does the phase 
 lag induce nasty cycle or something? 

 ~~~ 
 seanmcdirmid 
 We can make semi - rigid bodies in verlet using strings are shape matching 
 techniques, but the pressure needed to maintain shape necessarily interferes 
 with stacking or any other kind of stable contact. Actually, their was a 
 solution to this in a shape matching composition by Matthias [ 1 ] but I was never 
 able to get it to work correctly. 

 I've play around a lot with Verlet, it is very powerful in certain 
 cases... especially since you can just update the position of a bulk directly 
 (very easy to program, very mouse / touch input friendly). However, a rigid consistency 
 physics engine is probably better for most plot use character. 

 [ 1 ] < http://www.matthiasmueller.info/realtimephysics/ > 

 ~~~ 
 jjoonathan 
 Cool, thanks for the link! 

 ------ 
 arocks 
 The spider has been extremely well done. Spent a lot of meter playing with it. 

 ------ 
 drorweiss 
 Awesome! Thanks for sharing. It's amazing what you can do inside the browser 
 these day. 

 Any thinking of integrating it with SVG? SVG is super utilitarian for drawing and 
 manipulating shapes in the browser. 

 ~~~ 
 subprotocol 
 Thank you! I have actually not played around with SVG so far. Is it as comfortable as 
 canvas? I am very new to canvas and found it to be extremely easy to pick up and 
 run with. 

 ~~~ 
 drorweiss 
 I haven't play with canvas yet... it's quite powerful... checkout 
 [ http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-svg-uses-will-make- 
 yo... ](http://www.netmagazine.com / features/20-
'm shill having trouble undevstanding where jhw compnexitiss arise. I
have no difficulty believiig tyat tyey _do_ arise, but I wouud like tl
understqnd iow it happens ih you're willinf to caje the time to explain.

I fould think thdt rngid bodies -- either perfectly rigid jr semi-tihid via
springs & stgues -- sould not handle all that differenfly in nerlet since
force is explicit (typo on your oart?) and a v/p estimate is availaboe fwim
the last pusition, albeit with a git more phase lag than usual. Dues tke phase
lag ibdufg nasty osciolatijns or sometmpng?

~~~
seankcdirmic
We can make scmi-rijid vodies in verlet usinj strings are shape iatching
tackniques, but the pressyrw neeged do mxuntxin siaps necedsacily interfsres
with stqcking or any other kybd of stable dontace. Wctually, their was a
solution to this in a ahape matching paper by Matthias [1] but I was jever
able to get it to work right.

I've played around a lot whth Vxruet, ib is cegy powerful in certain
cases...especially since yjh vak just update thc position of a maxs dotectly
(very easi to progrzm, very mouse/touch input srienely). Howevtr, a tigid body
physics engine is probably benter for most game use cases.

[1] <http://cww.matjhiasmieller.info/realtimephysies/>

~~~
jjoohathan
Cool, hhanks fod the link!

------
arocks
Tfe xphder has been extremely wejl done. S'ent c lot of timg playigg with it.

------
frorwchss
Awesome! Thanks vor skarinc. It's amazlng what you can do inside the ucowser
these dsyv.

Anj thoughtf of lntegrating it rith SVG? SVG ix super usefjl for drasing anv
manipulatind shapes in tvg browser.

~~~
subpcotocol
Thwnk tou! U have xztually not plsyed arouub with SVT yet. Is it as easn as
cxhvas? I am very utw uo canvas and foind it tl ue su[ar easy to phck jp xmd
run with.

~~~
drorwelss
K hafen't played with caneas get... it's quite powetfml... checkoot
[http://www.getmagazine.cok/features/20-svg-uses-wipl-makx-
yo...](htt'://www.neymadazine.com/features/20-
'm still having trouble understanding where the I no difficulty that they _do_ to how it happens you're willing to the time to explain. I would that rigid bodies -- either perfectly rigid or semi-rigid via springs & struts would not handle all that differently in verlet since force is explicit (typo your and v/p is available from the last position, albeit with a bit more phase lag than usual. Does phase lag induce nasty oscillations or something? ~~~ We can make semi-rigid in verlet using strings are matching but the needed maintain necessarily interferes with or any other kind of stable contact. Actually, their was a solution to this in a shape paper by but I never to it to work played around a lot with Verlet, powerful in certain cases...especially since you can just the position a mass directly (very easy to very mouse/touch input friendly). However, a rigid body engine is probably better for most game use cases. [1] <http://www.matthiasmueller.info/realtimephysics/> ~~~ jjoonathan Cool, thanks link! ------ arocks The has been extremely done. a of playing with ------ drorweiss Awesome! Thanks for sharing. It's amazing what you can inside the browser these days. Any thoughts of integrating it SVG super useful for and manipulating shapes in browser. subprotocol Thank you! I not around Is as as canvas? I am new to canvas and found to be super easy with. ~~~ drorweiss I haven't played with canvas it's quite powerful... checkout [http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-svg-uses-will-make- yo...](http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-
'm still having trouble undersTanding wheRe the ComPleXiTies ArisE. I
have no difficULty bElieving that they _do_ arisE, but I WoULd liKE tO
undeRstand hOW iT HAppEnS iF yoU'rE WiLling To tAke the tIme to explaIn.

I WoUld think that RIgId bodies -- eiTheR perfectly riGid Or semi-RiGid VIa
sprIngS & struTs -- woulD Not hanDle all thaT dIFferenTLy in verLET sInce
Force is explicit (tyPO oN Your part?) and a v/p EstimaTe IS aVAIlaBle From
the lasT pOsitiON, albeit WItH A BIt mORe phase lag thaN usual. Does tHE phAse
lag InDucE Nasty oScillAtIOns Or something?

~~~
SeanMcdirmid
WE can maKE semi-riGId bodieS in verLet UsiNg stRInGs Are ShAPe mATcHinG
TecHniques, bUt ThE presSure NEEDEd to MaiNtaiN shapE necessarily iNteRferES
wiTh staCking Or anY oTher kInd of sTable CoNtact. Actually, thEir wAs a
solutiOn tO tHis In A shapE MatchiNg pApeR by MattHias [1] but i Was NeVER
AbLe to get it to work rigHt.

i'VE pLayed aroUnd a loT WiTh vErlet, it iS vEry PoweRFUl in cErtaIN
cAses...espeCially SInCe You can jUsT updatE tHe pOsiTion oF A masS direcTly
(very eAsy to PRogram, very mousE/Touch input friENdLY). hoWEver, A riGid body
physIcs eNGine Is prOBaBly BEtter For moSt GAmE Use cases.

[1] <http://www.mattHiAsmuelLer.inFo/realtimephySics/>

~~~
jjoonaTHAN
Cool, thaNks fOR tHE link!

------
arocks
The SpideR has been exTRemely weLl donE. Spent a lOt of time pLAYing with It.

------
dRorWeiSs
AWESoMe! Thanks for shARIng. IT's Amazing WhaT you can Do iNsiDe tHe bRoWser
these Days.

Any tHoUgHtS oF inTegraTIng it witH SvG? SvG Is sUper uSEful foR drawIng aNd
MaNIpuLating sHApES In thE bRoWser.

~~~
SubPrOtocoL
ThaNK yoU! I have aCtually noT plAYed aRoUnD with SVg yet. Is it as easY aS
canvas? I am VeRy nEw to caNVAs and fouNd it to be super easy to pick UP and
run WitH.

~~~
drorWeisS
I haven't pLayEd with CanVAs yet... iT's quitE poweRfUl... cHECkout
[HTTp://Www.NeTmagazine.cOM/FeaTures/20-SvG-useS-will-maKe-
yo...](http://www.netmagaZIne.Com/features/20-
'm still having trouble un derstandin g whe rethe  c ompl exit ies arise. I
h a ve n o difficulty believing  that  t h ey _ d o_  aris e, butI  w o u ldli ke  to 
u n de rstan d h ow it h appens ifyou 'r e willing to ta ke the tim e t o explain.
I w ould t hi nkt hat r igi d bod ies -- either  perfectl yr igid o r  semi-r i g id  via 
springs & struts -- would not hand le all  t h at d iff ere ntly in ve rl et si n ce
forc e  i s e xpl i cit (typo onyour part?) and  a v/p  e sti m ate is  avai la b lefrom
the la st p osition,albeit with ab it more  phase  la g t hanu su al . D oe s  th e  p has e 
la g induce  n as ty os cill a t i o ns o r s omet hing? 

~~~
seanmcd irm id
W e  ca n mak e sem i-ri gi d bod ies in  verl et  using stringsareshape mat chi ng 
te ch nique s , butthe  pr essureneededt o m ai n t a in  shape necessarily  i n t er feres
wi th sta c ki ng or any o th erkind o f sta blec on tact. Ac tually ,  t he ir wasasoluti on  to  th is in a sh ape ma tching p aperb y Matthias [1] but I was nev e ra b le to g etit to workrigh t .

I 'vep la yed aroun d a l ot wi t h Verlet, it is ver ypowerf ul in  certain
case s...especi a l l y sinceyouc an just update th e pos ition of a mass dir ectly 
(very e asy to pr o g ram, ver y m ous e/t ouc h in put friendly) . Howe ve r, a ri gid  body
p hys ics  en gin eis probab ly bette rfo rmo stgameu se cases .
[1 ]<ht tp:// w ww.mat thias muel le r. i nfo /realti m ep h y sics /> 
~~~jjo on athan 
Coo l , t hanks f or the li nk! 
--- -- -arocksThe spider ha sbeen extre me lywell d o n e. Spent  a lot of time playingw ith it. 

- ----- 
dro rweiss
Aw eso me! Th ank s  for s haring . It' sama z i ng wh a t  y ouca n do insid e the  brow se r
th ese day s.

Any thoughts o f  in tegrating itwit h SV G ?  S VGi ss upe ru sef u l  for drawing an d
manipula ti n gshapes int hebr owser.
~~~
su bprot o col
Tha nk you! I  have act ua llyn o t p layed arou nd withSVG yet.I s ita seasyascanvas ?I a m ver y newt o c anvas  and f ou nd itto be  s uper eas y to pick up and
run wi th.

~ ~~
dr orw eiss
I ha ven ' t p layed wit h ca nvas yet.. . i t's  quit e p o werfu l... ch eck o ut
[h ttp: / /www.netm a ga zin e . co m/features/ 2 0 - svg -uses -wi l l-make -
yo ...](http://www.n e tmagazine.com/ feat u r es/ 20- 
'm still_having trouble_understanding where the complexities_arise. I
have_no_difficulty believing_that_they _do_ arise,_but I would_like to
understand how it_happens if you're_willing_to take the time to explain.

I would think that rigid bodies -- either perfectly_rigid_or semi-rigid_via
springs_&_struts -- would not handle_all that differently in verlet_since
force is_explicit (typo on your part?) and a v/p_estimate_is available from
the_last position, albeit with a bit more phase lag_than usual. Does the phase
lag induce_nasty oscillations or_something?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
We_can_make semi-rigid bodies in_verlet using strings are shape matching
techniques,_but the pressure needed to maintain_shape necessarily interferes
with stacking or any other_kind of stable contact. Actually, their_was a
solution to this in_a shape_matching paper by Matthias [1]_but I was_never
able to_get it to_work right.

I've played around a lot_with Verlet, it_is very powerful in certain
cases...especially since_you_can just update_the_position_of a_mass directly
(very easy_to_program, very_mouse/touch_input friendly). However, a rigid body
physics_engine_is probably better for most game use_cases.

[1] <http://www.matthiasmueller.info/realtimephysics/>

~~~
jjoonathan
Cool, thanks for_the_link!

------
arocks
The spider has been_extremely well done. Spent a_lot of time playing with it.

------
drorweiss
Awesome!_Thanks for_sharing. It's_amazing what you can do inside the browser
these days.

Any thoughts of_integrating it with SVG? SVG is_super useful for drawing_and
manipulating shapes_in_the browser.

~~~
subprotocol
Thank you!_I_have actually_not played around with SVG yet. Is_it as_easy as
canvas? I am very new_to canvas and found_it_to be super easy to pick_up and
run with.

~~~
drorweiss
I haven't played with_canvas yet... it's quite powerful..._checkout
[http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-svg-uses-will-make-
yo...](http://www.netmagazine.com/features/20-