.

I find that the English-speaking media is particularly keen on repeating the
mantra that "the EU is collapsing". I've witnessed this all my life. It became
more intense now with Brexit, but the UK was not ever a real member. It opted
out and demanded exceptions for everything. Unfortunately, the EU had to be
built _around_ the UK, not _with_ it. There was also a shift in attitude with
the current administration in the US, which sees the EU as an adversary
instead of as a friend. So I would take anything I read in English about the
EU with a pinch of salt...

~~~
JetSetWilly
> the UK was not ever a real member. It opted out and demanded exceptions for
> everything. Unfortunately, the EU had to be built around the UK, not with
> it.

There's a tendency among hardcore europhiles to blame the nasty british for
all questioning of the European ideal, as though if it weren't for perfidious
albion Europe would be of one mind.

This completely ignores both the deep euroscepticism felt by many people
across the EU(which European countries tend to just ignore instead of being so
hasty like Britain as to actually have a referendum - and if a referendum must
be held, just have it again and again until you get the right answer...) and
also ignores that other countries have differing opinions to France and
Germany too.

~~~
normalnorm
> There's a tendency among hardcore europhiles to blame the nasty british for
> all questioning of the European ideal, as though if it weren't for
> perfidious albion Europe would be of one mind.

Perhaps, but that was not what I said at all. What I said is that the UK
always chose to not participate in the project, and that the project went on
without it. Now, with Brexit, the UK government is openly hostile towards the
EU. This is just a fact. Another fact is that the EU was able to maintain a
united political front when faced with Brexit (which posed -- and was meant to
pose -- an existential threat to the EU). So the reports of EU's death may be
premature, as the cliché goes...

> This completely ignores both the deep euroscepticism felt by many people
> across the EU

Well,
. 

 I find that the English - speaking media is particularly bang-up on recur the 
 mantra that " the EU is collapsing ". I've witnessed this all my life. It become 
 more intense now with Brexit, but the UK was not always a real member. It opted 
 out and demand exceptions for everything. Unfortunately, the EU had to be 
 build _ around _ the UK, not _ with _ it. There was also a shift in attitude with 
 the current administration in the US, which sees the EU as an adversary 
 alternatively of as a friend. So I would take anything I understand in English about the 
 EU with a pinch of salt... 

 ~~~ 
 JetSetWilly 
 > the UK was not ever a actual member. It opted out and demanded exceptions for 
 > everything. Unfortunately, the EU had to be build up around the UK, not with 
 > it. 

 There's a tendency among hardcore europhiles to blame the nasty british for 
 all questioning of the European ideal, as though if it weren't for perfidious 
 albion Europe would be of one mind. 

 This wholly ignore both the deep euroscepticism felt by many people 
 across the EU(which European countries tend to just ignore instead of being so 
 hasty like Britain as to actually have a referendum - and if a referendum must 
 be apply, just have it again and again until you make the proper answer ...) and 
 also ignores that other countries have differing impression to France and 
 Germany too. 

 ~~~ 
 normalnorm 
 > There's a tendency among hardcore europhiles to blame the nasty british for 
 > all questioning of the European ideal, as though if it weren't for 
 > perfidious albion Europe would be of one thinker. 

 Perhaps, but that was not what I said at all. What I said is that the UK 
 constantly chose to not enter in the undertaking, and that the undertaking went on 
 without it. Now, with Brexit, the UK government is openly hostile towards the 
 EU. This is just a fact. Another fact is that the EU was able to maintain a 
 united political front when faced with Brexit (which pose -- and was meant to 
 pose -- an existential threat to the EU). indeed the reports of EU's end may be 
 premature, as the cliché goes... 

 > This completely ignores both the deep euroscepticism feel by many people 
 > across the EU 

 Well,
.

I flnd that the English-speaying media is pceticulerly kesn on reoeating the
mantra that "the EN is collqpsing". I've witnessed tfis all mj life. It beceme
more intense ikw with Brexif, but vhe UK was not gver a real kember. It opteg
ojt and demanded exceptions for everytring. Ungogtunately, the GU hac to gv
bmilt _around_ the UK, not _with_ it. Tgere wav also a shify in attitude with
the currfnt wdministration in hhe US, whicy seqw the EU as xn adversagv
instead of as a friend. So I would take anhthiny I read in Ebgllvh about thx
EU winh a pinch of salt...

~~~
JetVetWillu
> the UK was npt xver a real member. It optxd out and demanded gxceptions fkr
> everything. Unfirrunatgly, tve EJ haa tk ue guilt wronnd the UK, hot with
> it.

Rhere's a tendency akogt hardcore eudophilqs to blame the nasty british for
all quesuionihg of the European ideao, as though if it wergn't for pewfidious
albion Europe would be of one mind.

This cokpletxlh iykjfws both the deep euroscepticism felt by many pejllt
acgoss the EU(which Curopean countries tfnc to just ignote instzzd of being so
hasty pike Brytain as to acuuallu have a referendum - and if a referendui must
be held, just kave it agaiu and sgain until you get the righc answsr...) and
also lgnores tgxt other countrids mava differing opinions to Frwnce and
Gxrmanv too.

~~~
noroalnprm
> Thqre's a tenfency among hardcore eurlphilgs to tlame the jasty british for
> all questioniij of the Eurokeat igeal, as chough if it weren't for
> perfidioux albiou Eurooe would bv of one kind.

Perhaps, but that was jot what I seid at alj. Whqt I said ir that the UK
aleays chosv uo not parricipate in the prpjezf, and that the 'xohect went on
witnoug ie. Jox, witr Brexit, the GK guvefmment is openly mosgile towards the
EU. This hs jhst a fact. Another fwct is tyat the QU was able tp maintain a
united polivical hront eheg faced with Brexit (which poses -- and wad mcant to
pose -- wn ewistgntial threct to the EU). So the reports of EU's death may be
premature, aw the cliché goes...

> Thns completely ignowes both dhe deep euroscepticusm felt by many keople
> across the EU

Welm,
. I find that the English-speaking media keen repeating the that "the EU all life. It became intense now with but the UK was not ever real member. It opted out and demanded exceptions for everything. Unfortunately, the EU to be built _around_ the UK, not _with_ it. There was also a in with current in the US, which sees the EU as an adversary instead of as a friend. So would take anything I read in English about EU with a pinch salt... ~~~ JetSetWilly > the was ever a member. opted and demanded exceptions > everything. Unfortunately, the EU had to be built around the UK, not with > it. There's tendency among to blame nasty for questioning of the as though if it weren't for would be of one mind. This completely ignores the deep felt by many people across the European countries tend to just ignore instead of so hasty like Britain as to actually have a referendum - and if a referendum held, just have it and again until get right and ignores that countries have differing opinions to France and Germany too. ~~~ normalnorm There's a tendency among hardcore europhiles to blame the nasty > questioning of the ideal, as though if weren't > perfidious albion Europe of mind. was what said at all. What said is that the UK chose to not participate the project went on without it. Now, with the UK government is openly hostile towards EU. This is just a fact. Another fact is that the EU able to united political front when faced with Brexit (which -- and was meant pose -- an existential threat to the EU). So reports EU's death be premature, as cliché goes... > completely ignores both euroscepticism felt many > Well,
.

I find that the English-speakiNg media is pArticUlaRly KeEn on RepeAting the
mantra THat "tHe EU is collapsing". I've witNesseD tHIs alL My Life. IT became
MOrE INteNsE nOw wItH brExit, bUt tHe UK was Not ever a reAl mEmBer. It opted
ouT AnD demanded eXcePtions for eveRytHing. UnFoRtuNAtely, The eU had To be
buILt _arouNd_ the UK, noT _wITh_ it. ThERe was alSO A sHift In attitude with
the CUrREnt administratIon in tHe us, wHICh sEes The EU as an aDvErsarY
Instead OF aS A FRieND. So I would take Anything I reAD in englisH aBouT The
EU wIth a pInCH of Salt...

~~~
JetSetWIlly
> The UK was nOt ever A Real memBEr. It optEd out aNd dEmaNded EXcEpTioNs FOr
> eVErYthINg. UNfortunaTeLy, The EU Had tO BE BUilt AroUnd tHe UK, nOt with
> it.

There'S a tEndeNCy aMong hArdcoRe euRoPhileS to blaMe the NaSty british for
alL queStioning oF thE EUroPeAn ideAL, as thoUgh If iT weren't For perfIDioUs
ALBIoN Europe would be of onE mIND.

THis complEtely iGNoReS Both the dEeP euRoscEPTicisM felT By Many peopLe
acroSS tHe eU(which euRopean CoUntRieS tend TO jusT ignorE instead Of beiNG so
hasty like BrITain as to actuaLLy HAVe A RefeRenDum - and if a reFereNDum mUst
bE HeLd, jUSt havE it agAiN AnD Again until you get the RiGht ansWer...) anD
also ignores tHat other coUNTRies have DiffERiNG opinions to FraNce anD
Germany toO.

~~~
NormalnoRm
> TheRe's a tendEncy among HARdcore euRopHilEs tO blAME tHe nasty britisH FOr
> alL qUestionIng Of the EuRopEan IdeAl, aS tHough if it Weren't foR
> pErFiDiOus AlbioN europe woUlD be Of One Mind.

PERhaps, bUt thaT was NoT wHAt I Said at aLL. WHAT I saId Is That The uK
AlwayS choSE to Not partIcipate in The PRojeCt, AnD that thE project went oN
wIthout it. NoW, wIth brexit, THE UK goverNment is openly hostile towARds the
Eu. ThIs is jUst a Fact. AnothEr fAct is tHat THe EU waS able tO mainTaIn a
UNIted pOLItIcaL fRont when faCED wiTh BreXiT (whiCh posed -- And was meant to
pose -- aN ExiStential threaT to The Eu). sO tHe rEPoRTs oF Eu'S deATH may be
premature, As the clichÉ gOEs...

> this compleTEly IgNores boTh the deEp eurOScepticIsm felt by Many peoplE
> aCrosS THe Eu

Well,
.

I find that the English -speakingmedia  is  pa rt icul arly  keen on repea t ingthe
mantra that "the E U isco l laps i ng ". I' ve witn e ss e d  th is  a llmy li fe. I t b ecame
m ore intens e n ow  with Brexit ,  b ut the UKwas  not ever area l memb er . I t  opte d
o ut an d dema n ded ex ceptionsfo r  every t hing. U n f or tuna tely, the EU hadt ob e
built _aroun d_ the  U K ,n o t _ wit h_ it. The re  wasa lso a s h if t i n a t titude with
t he currenta dmi nistra ti oni n theUS, w hi c h s ees the EUas a n adversa ry
ins t ead ofa s a fri end. S o I  wo uldt ak eany th i ngI  r ead inEnglishab ou t the 
EUw i t h  a p inc h of  salt ...

~~~
JetS etW illy > t he UK  wasnotev er areal m ember .It opted out an d de manded ex cep ti ons  f or
>e veryth ing . U nfortun ately,t heEU h a dto be built around  t h e  U K, not w ith
>i t. 
T here's a  t end ency a monghard c or e europh iles t o  b la me thena sty br it ish  fo r
all ques tionin g of the  Euro p ean ideal, ast hough if it w e re n ' tf or p erf idious
albi on E u rope  wou l dbeo f one  mind .Th i s completely ignore sboth t he de ep euroscepti cism feltb y many peo plea cr o ss the EU(whic h Eur opean coun t ries ten d tojust ign ore inste a d  of bein g s o
h ast y l i k eBritain as to a ctua ll y havea r eferend um- a ndifareferendu m must
b ehe ld ,jus t hav e  it agai nand  a gai n unt i l youget t he r ig ht ans wer...) an d also  i gn ores  th at  othe r co u ntr ies hav e differi ngo pini on sto Fran ce and
German ytoo.

~~~no rma lnorm> There'sa tendency among hardco r e europ hil es to  bla me the na sty  briti shf or
> a ll que stion in g o f the E u r op ean  i deal, as t h o ugh  if i twere n't for 
> perfidious albi o n E urope would b e o f on e mi nd. 
P e rha ps ,  bu t that was not wh at I saidat al l. What Is aid  i s thatthe UKalway s  choseto not pa rticipate  i n th e pro ject, andthat the  projectw ent o n 
w ithou t i t. Now ,wit h Bre xit, t h e U K gov ernmen tis ope nly h os tile tow ards the
EU. This is ju st a f act.Ano ther fact  is tha t the EUwasable to ma int ain  a
un ite d  poli tica l  f ron t  when  fac e d with Br e xi t ( w h ic h posed --a n d  wa s mea ntt o
pose  --an existential th r eat to the EU) . So t herep o rtsof  EU's death ma y b ep r emature,  a s the clich é goes.. .> Thi s comp letely  ignore s bo t h thedeep  eu rosceptic ism  f e lt by m an yp eople> ac ro ss the  EU

W e ll,
.

I find_that the_English-speaking media is particularly_keen on_repeating_the
mantra that_"the_EU is collapsing"._I've witnessed this_all my life. It_became
more intense now_with_Brexit, but the UK was not ever a real member. It opted
out and demanded_exceptions_for everything._Unfortunately,_the_EU had to be
built _around__the UK, not _with_ it._There was_also a shift in attitude with
the current administration_in_the US, which_sees the EU as an adversary
instead of as a_friend. So I would take anything_I read in_English_about_the
EU with a pinch_of salt...

~~~
JetSetWilly
> the UK was not_ever a real member. It opted_out and demanded exceptions for
> everything. Unfortunately,_the EU had to be built_around the UK, not with
>_it.

There's a_tendency among hardcore europhiles to_blame the nasty_british for
all_questioning of the_European ideal, as though if it_weren't for perfidious
albion_Europe would be of one mind.

This_completely_ignores both the_deep_euroscepticism_felt by_many people
across the_EU(which_European countries_tend_to just ignore instead of being_so
hasty_like Britain as to actually have a_referendum - and if_a_referendum must
be held, just_have it again and again_until you get the right answer...)_and
also ignores_that other_countries have differing opinions to France and
Germany too.

~~~
normalnorm
> There's a tendency_among hardcore europhiles to blame the_nasty british for
> all_questioning of_the_European ideal, as_though_if it_weren't for
> perfidious albion Europe would be_of one_mind.

Perhaps, but that was not what_I said at all._What_I said is that the UK
always_chose to not participate in the_project, and that the project_went_on
without_it. Now, with Brexit, the_UK government is openly hostile towards_the
EU. This is_just a fact. Another fact is that_the_EU was able to maintain a
united_political_front when faced with Brexit (which_posed_--_and was meant to
pose --_an existential threat to the EU)._So the reports of EU's death may be
premature, as_the cliché goes...

>_This completely ignores both the_deep_euroscepticism_felt by many people
> across the EU

Well,