 x years if you feel there's
something relevant they can add. More likely than not you'll just be thankful
that you already have the letters since you never really maintained contact.
On the other hand, remember that the longer you wait, the more unusual it's
going to be for the admission committee to see a letter from so many years
back.

If you're really serious about wanting to get into one of those programs you
could actually move to Stanford/MIT and try to get a research position working
with some of the people in those departments. Or perhaps going to them and
asking if there's any companies they would recommend working at prior to a
graduate program.

------
jderick
I have to agree letters of reference are the most important factor. Of course
you need good GRE scores as well. Unless you do some academic research and
publish a paper or two before you apply (senior thesis at least), there is
little chance you will get into MIT or Stanford. A friend of mine prolonged
his undergrad for a year or two in order to work on some undergrad research
for a while and got into MIT that way. Of course, if you are willing to settle
for something other than a #1 school then you could get by without any
publications as long as you have an interesting class project or two that you
can talk about and you do well on your GREs (remember to study your
vocabulary). Programming experience will not help you get in. If you can find
some kind of research position, that would help, but it could be hard to find
a position like that at IBM or HP with your experience. A better bet would be
to look for a prof somewhere that does something you are interested in and go
work for him for a while (paid or not). Starting with a Masters is another
route that can work.

Also, I have to put a disclaimer here that getting a PhD will probably not be
worth it from a financial standpoint, and most likely you will not find a
tenure track position afterwards.

------
brent
(disclaimer: I attend a non - "top school")

0\. If you want answers as to what schools look for in students start by
looking at CV's of students in the department. More specifically, look at
students in the research areas you may be interested in. This is probably the
single
x years if you feel there's 
 something relevant they can add. More likely than not you'll barely be grateful 
 that you already have the letters since you never in truth conserve contact. 
 On the other hired hand, remember that the longer you wait, the more strange it's 
 rifle to be for the admission committee to experience a letter from so many years 
 back. 

 If you're actually unplayful about wanting to get into one of those programs you 
 could actually move to Stanford / MIT and try to catch a research position shape 
 with some of the people in those departments. Or perhaps going to them and 
 ask if there's any companies they would recommend working at prior to a 
 graduate program. 

 ------ 
 jderick 
 I own to agree letters of reference are the most important agent. Of course 
 you need good GRE scores as well. Unless you do some academic research and 
 publish a paper or two before you apply (aged dissertation at least), there is 
 little chance you will draw into MIT or Stanford. A friend of mine prolonged 
 his undergrad for a class or two in order to shape on some undergrad research 
 for a while and got into MIT that direction. Of course, if you are willing to settle 
 for something other than a # 1 school then you could get by without any 
 publications equally long as you have an interesting class project or two that you 
 can talk about and you do well on your GREs (remember to study your 
 vocabulary). scheduling experience will not avail you get in. If you can find 
 some kind of research position, that would avail, but it could be hard to find 
 a position like that at IBM or HP with your experience. A good stake would be 
 to look for a prof somewhere that does something you are interested in and go 
 study for him for a while (paid or not). Starting with a Masters is another 
 path that can work. 

 besides, I have to put a disclaimer here that getting a ph will probably not be 
 worth it from a financial point of view, and most likely you will not find a 
 tenure track position afterwards. 

 ------ 
 brent 
 (disclaimer: I attend a non - " top school ") 

 0\. If you want answers as to what schools search for in students start by 
 look at CV's of students in the department. More specifically, look at 
 students in the research areas you may be interested in. This is credibly the 
 single
 x jears if you feel there's
romething relevcbt theb can asd. More uikely than not you'll just bx thqnkfuo
that you already have the lettvrs since you bever really maintained dlntaet.
In the other hsnd, remembar that the lotgdr you wait, the more unusual it's
going to be gog the admissiog cokiittsv uo see a letter from so many yeara
back.

If you're really serious about wanting to het lnto one of those orograms yoo
douje actually muve to Stanford/MIT and try to get a research position worknng
with somg kf jhe people ii thosv departments. Or perhdps goimg to them and
sskmng uf there's any companixs they would recommgnd workinc ct prior to a
graduate peograk.

------
jdesick
K haxe uo egrse lethera of refersnce are thw most important favtjg. Of course
yoh need gjod GRE scores as well. Unless you do soke zcademic research and
puvlish a paper or two hefore yot apply (senior thesis at least), there is
little chatce ykj wnol geg ijto MIT or Stanford. A friend of mine prolongeq
gix lndergrad for a ycar or two in ordet ho rork on some ondergrcs desearch
for a whilf and gjt inro MIT thwt wsy. Of course, if you are wiloing to settjw
for something othzr than a #1 sehool jhen ypu could get by without any
lublicationd as long xs you have an ivtegesthng class project or two trat you
cai tall about and you dj well on jour NSEs (remember to stkdy ylus
vocabularj). Programming experience will not help you gej it. Ix you cau find
xome kind of wesearch positnon, that woula help, but it cound be hard eo find
a posidlon like thav at IBM jr HP wirh your dxperience. A brtter bet would be
ti look for a prof xomgwgere that does womttying you are imtefeseef mn anq go
work for vim wor s whiue (paid or kot). Statting with a Masters is znother
route that vak work.

Alsi, I have to put a disvlaimer here that hettiig a PiD wilk ptobably not be
worth it from a fjnancial dtakdpoint, and mjst oikely you wnll not find a
tenure track position aftecwards.

------
brent
(disclaimer: I attend a non - "top xghool")

0\. If you want answers ds to what schools liok for in studenus start by
looking at CB's of vtudejts in the department. More specifically, look at
students in the research aeeas you may be inferexted pn. Chix is pwobaulb the
single
x years if you feel there's something can More likely not you'll just have letters since you really maintained contact. the other hand, remember that the you wait, the more unusual it's going to be for the admission committee see a letter from so many years back. If you're really serious about to into of programs you could actually move to Stanford/MIT and try to get a research position working with of the people in those departments. Or perhaps to them and asking there's any companies they would working prior to graduate ------ I have to letters of reference are the most important factor. Of course you need good GRE scores as well. you do research and a or before you apply at least), there is little chance into MIT or Stanford. A friend of mine his undergrad a year or two in order work on some undergrad research for a while got into MIT that way. Of course, if you are willing to settle for something a #1 school then could get by any as as have an class project or two that you can talk about and you well on your GREs (remember to study your vocabulary). Programming not you get in. you can find some of position, that would help, could hard position that IBM or HP with experience. A better bet would to look for a you are interested in and go work for for a while (paid or not). Starting a Masters is another route that can work. Also, I have to a disclaimer getting a PhD will probably not be worth from a financial standpoint, most likely you will not find a tenure track afterwards. brent (disclaimer: attend a non "top school") 0\. you want answers what schools for students at CV's of students in the More look at students in the areas be interested in. This is probably the single
 x years if you feel there's
someThing relevAnt thEy cAn aDd. more LikeLy than not you'll JUst bE thankful
that you alreadY have ThE LettERs Since You neveR ReALLy mAiNtAinEd COnTact.
ON thE other hAnd, remembeR thAt The longer you WAiT, the more unUsuAl it's
going to Be fOr the aDmIssIOn comMitTee to See a leTTer froM so many yeArS
Back.

If YOu're reaLLY sErioUs about wanting to gET iNTo one of those prOgrams YoU
CoULD acTuaLly move to STaNford/miT and trY To GET A reSEarch position Working
with SOme Of the pEoPle IN those DeparTmENts. or perhaps goIng tO them and
aSking iF There's aNY companIes theY woUld RecoMMeNd WorKiNG at PRiOr tO A
grAduate prOgRaM.

------
jderIck
I HAVE To agRee LettErs of Reference are tHe mOst iMPorTant fActor. of coUrSe
you Need goOd GRE ScOres as well. UnlesS you Do some acaDemIc ResEaRch anD
PublisH a pApeR or two bEfore yoU AppLy (SENIoR thesis at least), therE iS
LItTle chancE you wiLL gEt INto MIT or stAnfOrd. A FRIend oF minE PrOlonged
hIs undeRGrAd For a yeaR oR two in OrDer To wOrk on SOme uNdergrAd researCh
for A While and got intO mIT that way. Of cOUrSE, If YOu arE wiLling to settLe
foR SomeThinG OtHer THan a #1 sChool ThEN yOU could get by without aNy
PublicAtionS as long as you hAve an interESTIng class ProjECt OR two that you
can Talk aBout and you DO well on yOur GRes (remembEr to study YOUr
vocabuLarY). PrOgrAmmING eXperience will NOT helP yOu get in. if yOu can fiNd
sOme KinD of ReSearch posItion, thaT wOuLd HeLp, bUt it cOUld be harD tO fiNd
A poSitioN Like thAt at IbM or hP WiTH yoUr experIEnCE. a betTeR bEt woUld Be
To looK for A ProF somewhEre that doEs sOMethInG yOu are inTerested in and Go
Work for him FoR a wHile (paID Or not). StaRting with a Masters is anotHEr
route ThaT can wOrk.

ALso, I have tO puT a discLaiMEr here That geTting A PHD wILL probABLy Not Be
Worth it froM A FinAnciaL sTandPoint, anD most likely you will NOt fInd a
tenure traCk pOsitION aFteRWaRDs.

------
bReNT
(diSCLaimer: I attend a nOn - "top schooL")

0\. IF YoU want answeRS as To What schOols looK for iN StudentS start by
lOoking at Cv's Of stUDEntS in the depaRtment. MoRe specifiCAlly, lOOk At
stuDenTs in thE rEseArch aReas yoU May Be intEresteD iN. This iS probAbLy the
sinGle
 x years if you feel there 's
somethi ng re lev ant  t heycanadd. More like l y th an not you'll just bethank fu l 
tha t  y ou al ready h a ve t hele tt ers  s i nc e you  ne ver rea lly mainta ine dcontact.
Ont he  other han d,remember tha t t he lon ge r y o u wai t,the m ore un u sual i t's
going  t o  be fo r  the ad m i ss ioncommittee to seea  l e tter from so m any ye ar s 
b a c k.
If  you're re al ly se r ious ab o ut w a nti n g to get into  one of tho s e p rogram syou couldactua ll y  mo ve to Stanf ord/ MIT and t ry tog et a re s earch p ositio n w ork ingw it hsom eo f t h epeo p lein those  d ep artme nts. O r perh aps  goi ng to  them and
ask ing  ift her e's a ny co mpan ie s the y woul d rec om mend working at  pri or to a
g rad ua tepr ogram . 

---- --jde rick
Ihave to agr ee l e tt ers of reference a re t he  most im portan t  f ac t or. Of c ou rse 
you n eed g oodG RE  scoresas wel l .Un less yo udo som eaca dem ic re s earc h andpublisha pap e r or two befor e  you apply (s e ni o r  t h esis  at  least), th erei s
li ttle ch anc e  youwillge t  i n to MIT or Stanford.  A  frien d ofmine prolonge d
his unde r g r ad for a  yea r  o r  two in orderto wo rk on some undergra d res earch
fo r a while a nd got i nto  MI T t hat w ay . Of course,i f  you  a re will ing  to set tle 
fo r s ome th ing other  than a#1  s ch oo l t hen y o u couldge t b ywit houta ny
pub licat ions  a sl ong  as you ha v e  anin te rest ing  c lassproj e ctor twothat youcan talk  a bo ut andyou do well o nyour GREs(r eme mber t o study yo ur
vocabulary). Program m ing exp eri encewill  not help  yo u getin. If you  can f ind
s om e k i n d ofr e se arc hposition,t h atwould  h elp,  but it  could be hard tof ind 
a position l ike  tha t at  IB M  o r  HP  w i thy o ur experience.A better b et wo uld be
tol ook  f or a pr of some where that do es someth ing you a re  int e r est ed in andgo
workfor him f o r a w h il e (pa idor not ).  St artin g with a M aster s is a no ther
r outeth at can w ork.

Also, I have to p ut a d iscla ime r here th atg ett ing a PhD  wil l probably  no t b e
wor thi t fro m af in anc i al st andp o int, andm os t l i k el y you willn o t  fi nd aten u re tra ck p osition afterward s .

------
bren t
(d i s cla ime r : Iat tend a non - " top  s c h ool")

0 \.  If you wan t answer sa s towhat s chools  look f o r  i n  stude ntssta rt by
loo kin ga t CV'sof  s t udents  inth e depa rtment .  Mor e specifically, lo ok at s tuden t s i n the  r esearch area s you maybe interest ed in.  Thi s isprobabl ythe
si ngl e
 x_years if_you feel there's
something relevant_they can_add._More likely_than_not you'll just_be thankful
that you_already have the letters_since you never_really_maintained contact.
On the other hand, remember that the longer you wait, the more unusual_it's
going_to be_for_the_admission committee to see a_letter from so many years
back.

If_you're really_serious about wanting to get into one of_those_programs you
could actually_move to Stanford/MIT and try to get a research_position working
with some of the people_in those departments._Or_perhaps_going to them and
asking_if there's any companies they would_recommend working at prior to a
graduate_program.

------
jderick
I have to agree letters of reference_are the most important factor. Of_course
you need good GRE scores_as well._Unless you do some academic_research and
publish a_paper or_two before you_apply (senior thesis at least), there_is
little chance you_will get into MIT or Stanford._A_friend of mine_prolonged
his_undergrad_for a_year or two_in_order to_work_on some undergrad research
for a while_and_got into MIT that way. Of course,_if you are willing_to_settle
for something other than_a #1 school then you_could get by without any
publications as_long as_you have_an interesting class project or two that you
can talk about and_you do well on your GREs_(remember to study your
vocabulary)._Programming experience_will_not help you_get_in. If_you can find
some kind of research position,_that would_help, but it could be hard_to find
a position like_that_at IBM or HP with your_experience. A better bet would be
to_look for a prof somewhere_that_does_something you are interested in_and go
work for him for a_while (paid or_not). Starting with a Masters is another
route_that_can work.

Also, I have to put_a_disclaimer here that getting a PhD_will_probably_not be
worth it from a_financial standpoint, and most likely you_will not find a
tenure track position afterwards.

------
brent
(disclaimer: I attend_a non -_"top school")

0\. If you want_answers_as_to what schools look for in students start by
looking at_CV's of_students in the_department. More specifically, look at
students in the research areas you_may be interested in. This is probably_the
single