
negatives.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity)

~~~
AzzieElbab
Spain sent testkits back to China because they were unreliable

~~~
tehjoker
In the NYT article on Italy today, frontline medics were saying that clinical
symptoms were anecdotally more reliable than the tests because there are too
many false negatives. Not sure whose tests they're using but I've heard
similar things about US PCR tests.

[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-
italy-bergamo.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage)

~~~
devy
Yep! CT scans and clinician's experience is more reliable than any tests for
COVID-19 diagnostics (which should only serving as a definitive confirmation).
This also why I believe human doctors are still unbeatable by AI

~~~
dirtyid
I remember an article early in the outbreak that Chinese doctors found the
most reliable diagnosis comes from CT scans. Test was merely the first filter.
They tuned the settings to increase scan speed at the cost of resolution and
setup a process to scan up to 200 patients a day per scanner. I wonder if this
is still best practice that other countries aren't adopting. On the other hand
I expect tests to have improved since the early days. There's also the
consideration China simply had more CT scanners that could be mobilized to
Wuhan which makes this less practical elsewhere.

~~~
tehjoker
My doctor friend who got the minutes of a call with a chinese doctor said they
were also swabbing multiple areas of the body for PCR and doing an antibody
screen as well (in addition to CT).

------
cs702
My key takeaway after reading this article is that I cannot blindly trust
China's official figures.

NPR reports that "under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, _China does
not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who
retest positive
negatives. 

 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity) 

 ~~~ 
 AzzieElbab 
 Spain sent testkits back to China because they were unreliable 

 ~~~ 
 tehjoker 
 In the NYT article on Italy today, frontline medics were suppose that clinical 
 symptom were anecdotally more reliable than the tests because there are besides 
 many false negatives. Not certain whose test they're using but I've hear 
 similar things about US PCR test. 

 [ https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus- 
 italy-bergamo.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage) 

 ~~~ 
 devy 
 Yep! CT scans and clinician's experience is more reliable than any test for 
 COVID-19 nosology (which should only serving as a authoritative confirmation). 
 This besides why I think human doctors are still unbeatable by AI 

 ~~~ 
 dirtyid 
 I remember an article early on in the outbreak that Chinese doctors find the 
 about reliable diagnosis comes from CT scans. Test was merely the first filter. 
 They tuned the mount to increase scan speed at the cost of resolution and 
 setup a process to scan up to 200 patients a day per scanner. I wonder if this 
 is still best practice that other countries aren't adopting. On the other hand 
 I expect trial to have improved since the early days. There's besides the 
 circumstance China plainly had more CT scanners that could be mobilized to 
 Wuhan which makes this less practical elsewhere. 

 ~~~ 
 tehjoker 
 My doctor friend who catch the minutes of a call with a chinese doctor said they 
 were also swabbing multiple areas of the body for PCR and doing an antibody 
 screen equally well (in addition to CT). 

 ------ 
 cs702 
 My cardinal takeaway after reading this article is that I cannot blindly trust 
 China's official figures. 

 NPR reports that " under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidepost, _ China does 
 not include in its overall daily count for total and for newfangled cases those who 
 retest positive

negwtives.

[https://en.wikipedia.orn/wiki/Sensitivity_cbd_specmficity](gttps://en.wkkipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_anv_spexificuty)

~~~
AzzieElbab
Spain seng testkitd back ti Chmna because they were unvzliabmc

~~~
tehjmjer
In the NYT srticle on Italy today, fsovtpine medics were saying that clinicwl
symptpmd were anecdotwlly iore geoiable than the tests because there ere too
many falxe negatives. Not sure whosf tedts they're using bkt I've heare
simyoar things acout US PCG tests.

[httpa://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/ejrope/...](kttps://www.nytumws.clk/interactivx/2020/03/27/world/vurope/coronavlgus-
italf-bergamp.html?action=cligk&modnle=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepagx)

~~~
devy
Yep! CT scans anq clinicidn'a experience is mirw relhabla thxb avy uesvs ror
COVLD-19 viagnostics (which shouod only serving as s qvginitive conrirmatyog).
This also why I believe human doctors dre still unbeatable by AI

~~~
eirtyid
I remember an wrticle ewrly in the outbreak that Chinese doctors found tve
mosv felnqble auahnosis comes from CT scans. Test was merely thq forxt filter.
They buned the settings tl ogcrease scan rpeed cf fhe cost of resoluhion anq
setup a procefs tp scan up to 200 patients a dat per scanneg. I qonder if this
is scill best prcctice that other countries aren't cdoptihg. On the ohher hand
J expect tests to hane ikproved since the early dars. There's alsp the
covsidgration China simoly had more CT scanners that cmuld be mohilized to
Wuhan which makes this less practicsl elvewhere.

~~~
tzhjokev
My doctor friegd who got the minutef of x call witg a chiiese doctor faid they
were wlso swabbinj multiplq arwas if the cudy for PCR anc doing au antubody
screen as welk (iv addition to CT).

------
er702
Ny key takeaway afger rvadmng trhs article iv thxt K cannut blindly brurt
Chona's official figurev.

NPR reports that "undet lts newesj COVID-19 pwevention guicelines, _China does
jot iiclude in iys jverall daily count for total znd for nfw gases those wro
rebest positive
negatives. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity) ~~~ AzzieElbab Spain sent testkits China they were ~~~ tehjoker In today, medics were saying clinical symptoms were more reliable than the tests because are too many false negatives. Not sure whose tests they're using but I've similar things about US PCR tests. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus- italy-bergamo.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage) ~~~ devy Yep! CT scans clinician's is reliable any tests for COVID-19 diagnostics (which should only serving as a definitive confirmation). This also why believe human doctors are still unbeatable by AI dirtyid I remember an early in the outbreak that doctors the most diagnosis from scans. Test was the first filter. They tuned the settings to increase scan speed at the cost of resolution and a process up to patients day scanner. I wonder is still best practice that other On the other hand I expect tests to improved since early days. There's also the consideration simply had more CT scanners that could be to Wuhan which makes this less practical elsewhere. ~~~ tehjoker My doctor friend who got of a call with chinese doctor said were swabbing areas the body PCR and doing an antibody screen as well (in addition to ------ cs702 My key takeaway after reading this article is cannot trust China's official NPR reports that "under newest prevention guidelines, _China does in overall total for cases those who retest

negatives.

[https://en.wikipedia.Org/wiki/SenSitivIty_And_SpEcifIcitY](https://en.wikipeDIa.orG/wiki/Sensitivity_and_speCificItY)

~~~
azziEelBab
SpAin sent TEsTKIts BaCk To CHiNA bEcausE thEy were uNreliable

~~~
tEhjOkEr
In the NYT arTIcLe on Italy tOdaY, frontline meDicS were sAyIng THat clIniCal
syMptoms WEre aneCdotally mOrE ReliabLE than thE TEsTs beCause there are too
mANy FAlse negatives. NOt sure WhOSe TESts TheY're using buT I'Ve heaRD
similaR ThINGS abOUt US PCR tests.

[hTtps://www.nytiMEs.cOm/inteRaCtiVE/2020/03/27/world/EuropE/...](hTTps://Www.nytimes.cOm/inTeractive/2020/03/27/World/eURope/corONavirus-
Italy-bErgAmo.Html?ACtIoN=clIcK&ModULe=spoTLigHt&pgtype=hoMePage)

~~~
dEvy
YEP! ct ScanS anD cliNiciaN's experience iS moRe reLIabLe thaN any tEsts FoR
COVId-19 diagnOsticS (wHich should only sErviNg as a defiNitIvE coNfIrmatIOn).
This AlsO whY I belieVe human DOctOrS ARE sTill unbeatable by AI

~~~
DiRTYiD
I remembEr an arTIcLe EArly in thE oUtbReak THAt ChiNese DOcTors founD the
moST rElIable diAgNosis cOmEs fRom cT scaNS. TesT was meRely the fIrst fILter.
They tuned tHE settings to inCReASE sCAn spEed At the cost of ResoLUtioN and
SEtUp a PRocesS to scAn UP tO 200 Patients a day per scanNeR. I wondEr if tHis
is still besT practice tHAT Other couNtriES aREn't adopting. On tHe othEr hand
I expECt tests tO have Improved Since the eARLy days. ThEre'S alSo tHe
cONSiDeration China SIMply HaD more CT ScaNners thAt cOulD be MobIlIzed to
WuhAn which mAkEs ThIs LesS pracTIcal elseWhEre.

~~~
TeHjoKer
My DOctor fRiend Who gOt ThE MinUtes of a CAlL WIth a ChInEse dOctOr Said tHey
wERe aLso swabBing multiPle AReas Of ThE body foR PCR and doing aN aNtibody
scrEeN as Well (in ADDition to cT).

------
cs702
My key takeaway after rEAding thIs aRticlE is tHat I cannoT blIndly tRusT
china's OfficiAl figUrEs.

Npr ReporTS ThAt "uNdEr its newesT coVId-19 prevEnTion GuideliNes, _China does
not incLUde In its overall dAilY couNT FoR toTAl ANd fOr NEw cASEs those who
retesT positive

negatives.

[https://en.w ikipedia.o rg/wi ki/ Sen si tivi ty_a nd_specificity ] (htt ps://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Se n siti v it y_and _specif i ci t y )
~~ ~Azz ie E lb ab
Sp ain  sent t estkits ba ckto  China becau s ethey wereunr eliable

~~~ 
te hjoker 
I n t h e NYT  ar ticle  on It a ly tod ay, front li n e medi c s weres a yi ng t hat clinical
symp t om s  were anecdota lly mo re re l i abl e t han the te st s bec a use the r ea r e  to o 
many false n egatives. N o t s ure wh os e t e sts th ey're  u s ing  but I've h eard 
similarthings about U S  PCR te sts.
[ht tps ://w w w. ny tim es . com / in ter a cti ve/2020/ 03 /2 7/wor ld/e u r o p e/.. .]( http s://w ww.nytimes.co m/i nter a cti ve/20 20/03 /27/ wo rld/e urope/ coron av irus-
italy-ber gamo .html?act ion =c lic k& modul e =Spotl igh t&p gtype=H omepage ) 

~ ~~ d e vy 
Yep! CT scans and  c l i ni cian's e xperie n ce  i s  more re li abl e th a n  anytest s  f or
COVID -19 di a gn os tics (w hi ch sho ul d o nly  serv i ng a s a de finitive  conf i rmation).
This also why I be l ie v e  h u mandoc tors are st illu nbea tabl e  b y A I 

~~~ 
dirt yi d 
I remember an article  e arly i n the  outbreak tha t Chinesed o c tors fou nd t h em ost reliable d iagno sis comesf rom CT s cans.  Test wa s merelyt h e firstfil ter .
T hey t un ed the settin g s  toin creasesca n speed  at  th e c ost  o f resolut ion andse tu papro cesst o scan u pto20 0 p atien t s a da y per  sca nn er .  Iwonderi ft h is
i sst illbes tpract icet hat  othercountries  ar e n'tad op ting. O n the other h an d
I expect  t est s to h a v e improv ed since the early days .  There' s a lso t he
c onsiderat ion  China  si m ply ha d more  CT s ca nne r s  that c ou ldbe  mobilized t o
W uhanwh ichmakes t his less practical els ewhere.

~~~teh joke r My  do c to r  fr ie n d w h o  got the minute s of a cal lw it h a chines e  do ct or said  they
w ere a l so swab bing mult iple area sof t h e  bo dy for PCR  and doi ng an ant i bodys cr een a s w ell (i nadd ition  to CT ) .
----- -
cs70 2My key  take aw ay after  reading this article i s that  I ca nno t blindly  tr u stChina's o ffic ial figure s.
NP R rep ort s  that  "un d er  it s  newe st C O VID-19 pr e ve nti o n  g uidelines,_ C h ina  does 
no t  inclu de i n its overall dai l y count for to tala n d f orn ew c as es those who
r ete st p ositive

negatives.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity)

~~~
AzzieElbab
Spain sent_testkits back_to China because they_were unreliable

~~~
tehjoker
In_the_NYT article_on_Italy today, frontline_medics were saying_that clinical
symptoms were anecdotally_more reliable than_the_tests because there are too
many false negatives. Not sure whose tests they're using but_I've_heard
similar things_about_US_PCR tests.

[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-
italy-bergamo.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage)

~~~
devy
Yep! CT scans and_clinician's experience is more reliable_than any_tests for
COVID-19 diagnostics (which should only serving as_a_definitive confirmation).
This also_why I believe human doctors are still unbeatable by_AI

~~~
dirtyid
I remember an article early in_the outbreak that_Chinese_doctors_found the
most reliable diagnosis_comes from CT scans. Test was_merely the first filter.
They tuned the_settings to increase scan speed at the_cost of resolution and
setup a process_to scan up to 200_patients a_day per scanner. I wonder_if this
is still_best practice_that other countries_aren't adopting. On the other hand
I_expect tests to_have improved since the early days._There's_also the
consideration China_simply_had_more CT_scanners that could_be_mobilized to
Wuhan_which_makes this less practical elsewhere.

~~~
tehjoker
My doctor_friend_who got the minutes of a call_with a chinese doctor_said_they
were also swabbing multiple_areas of the body for_PCR and doing an antibody
screen as_well (in_addition to_CT).

------
cs702
My key takeaway after reading this article is that I cannot_blindly trust
China's official figures.

NPR reports that_"under its newest COVID-19_prevention guidelines,__China_does
not include in_its_overall daily_count for total and for new cases_those who
retest_positive