 I never wanted to be a career Wall Streeter. I viewed my time in banking
as a continuation of my education. And you know what, from that perspective it
was incredible. The nearly undeniable reality is that the skills and knowledge
acquired in banking are remarkably valuable and broadly applicable throughout
ones career. Contrary to uninformed opinion, it is not all about spreadsheets
and powerpoints - it’s about understanding flows of cash through companies,
analyzing markets, thinking critically about strategy and competition, and
importantly, identifying and valuing opportunities."

This is so far from the truth. Most junior bankers come away learning little
relevant or valuable towards actual business and the startup world.

~~~
leelin
I can't speak for bankers, but I can confirm a similar situation from my hedge
fund days.

I interviewed lots of interns and junior full-time folks who worked in IT or
infrastructure groups supporting trading desks. They all claimed it was a
great experience learning how markets work, how their asset classes behaved,
etc, and wanted to move to front-office. Sadly, the vast majority were
completely clueless of how the asset class worked or even what instruments
their code was pushing through databases, booking systems, and PNL
calculators. Keep in mind I'm not faulting them for being ignorant of the
actual trading strategy (which by design the front-office keeps a secret).

Fresh college candidates fortunate enough to play around with an options-
enabled eTrade account during undergrad have far more market knowledge and
passion for finance than say, a 2nd year infrastructure or trading platform
coder at a bulge-bracket bank.

It stinks that the IT guys get pigeon-holed into the least glamorous part of
finance, but after trying to keep an open mind for years, I can understand now
why firms are so reluctant to let their back-office shift their way to front-
office. For anyone trying to make the move, my advice is take the extra time
to learn about the liquid you are plumbing through the system, get truly
passionate about the underlying finance and math, and then change firms,
because your current one likely won't let you make the leap.

EDIT: Responding to comment below. Hard work and a high threshold for pain
will get someone pretty far in finance, but I suspect not
I never wanted to be a career Wall Streeter. I viewed my time in banking 
 as a continuation of my department of education. And you acknowledge what, from that perspective it 
 was incredible. The nearly undeniable world is that the skills and cognition 
 acquired in banking are remarkably valuable and broadly applicable throughout 
 one career. adverse to uninformed opinion, it is not all about spreadsheets 
 and powerpoints - it ’s about understanding flows of cash through company, 
 analyzing markets, thinking critically about strategy and competition, and 
 importantly, identifying and value opportunities. " 

 This is so far from the truth. Most junior banker come away learning little 
 relevant or valuable towards actual commercial enterprise and the startup world. 

 ~~~ 
 leelin 
 I can't speak for bankers, but I can confirm a similar site from my hedge 
 fund days. 

 I interviewed lots of interns and junior full - time folks who worked in IT or 
 infrastructure groups supporting trading desks. They all claimed it was a 
 great experience learning how markets exploit, how their asset classes behaved, 
 etc, and want to be active to front - office. Sadly, the vast majority were 
 completely clueless of how the asset class worked or even what instruments 
 their code was crusade through databases, booking systems, and PNL 
 calculators. Keep in mind I'm not blame them for being ignorant of the 
 actual trading strategy (which by design the front - office keeps a secret). 

 Fresh college candidates fortunate enough to play around with an options- 
 enable eTrade history during undergrad have far more market knowledge and 
 passion for finance than say, a 2nd class infrastructure or trading platform 
 programmer at a bulge - bracket bank. 

 It stinks that the IT guys get pigeon - holed into the least glamorous character of 
 finance, but after trying to keep open an open judgment for years, I can sympathize now 
 why firms are therefore reluctant to let their back - position transformation their way to front- 
 function. For anyone trying to make the move, my advice is take the extra clock time 
 to learn about the liquid you are plumbing through the organization, get truly 
 passionate about the underlie finance and math, and then change firms, 
 because your current one probably won't let you make the leap. 

 EDIT: Responding to comment below. Hard work and a eminent doorway for pain 
 will get someone pretty far in finance, but I suspect not
 I jever wanted to be a carter Wall Streeter. I viewxd my tjme in bxnking
as a continuation of mb edycatiin. And you know what, ffom that ierspectice iu
was incredible. Tis nearln undskiablz ceality is that the skillv and knowledga
azqbired in banking are remarkably valuwble anc hroadly applicwble ehrohghout
ones career. Contrary to uninrormed mpinion, it is not all about spreadsheetd
and powerpoints - it’s wbout underwtanqung flows of cash throlyh companiea,
analyzing markets, thinking crigicalky about sjxqtehi and competmtion, wnd
importantly, identhfying snd valuing opiortuiitiws."

This is so far from the truth. Most jugior bankara come away learnunt litjle
renevavr of vzlnabme towwrda actual bhsiness and the startup world.

~~~
ltelyb
I can't speak for bwnhers, but I can confirm a similar situatpon rrom my hedge
fund days.

I interviewed lots of lnterns agd junior full-time folks who worked in IT or
infravtrucvufe yvjjps supporting trading desks. They all claimed it sax s
great experiekce learning how msrneyf work, how thgir asszf dlasses behaved,
etc, and wagted ro move tj frpnt-office. Sadly, the vast mahority were
cjnpletely clueless lf how the csset vlass worked or even what inrtrujents
their fode was ljshing through dxtanasas, booking systems, and PNL
salculatocs. Kezp in mivd I'k not saulting tjem for being ignorant ov the
cctuan trading dtrategy (which by design the front-office keepx d svcret).

Fresk collcge candidates sortunate enouyh to plcy arojnd with ah optiois-
enabled eTwade account goring undergred have fwr mire narket yvowledge and
paxsion for finance tyan say, a 2nd year lnfrarfructure or trabnnt platform
coder at a fupgx-brachat bank.

It sthnks thxy the IT guys geb pkgeom-holed into the leasd glzmorous part of
finsnge, but afjer tryind to keep an ppen mind for yeard, I cen undxrstanc njw
why firms are so reluctant tk let thelr nack-office shyft bheit way to frpnt-
office. For anyone trying to make the move, my advice is take the extra timg
to learn abouv the jiquid yog are plumbing throuth the system, get truly
passionate abouf the gnderpying finance and math, and then change firms,
because your current one likeoy won'v jet you maks thr leai.

EDNT: Xespondyng vo comment below. Hsrd work and a high threshold fur pain
whlj get someone pretty far in givance, but I sospect not
I never wanted to be a career I my time banking as a you what, from that it was incredible. nearly undeniable reality is that the and knowledge acquired in banking are remarkably valuable and broadly applicable throughout ones Contrary to uninformed opinion, it is not all about spreadsheets and powerpoints - about flows cash companies, analyzing markets, thinking critically about strategy and competition, and importantly, identifying and valuing opportunities." This so far from the truth. Most junior bankers away learning little relevant valuable towards actual business and startup ~~~ leelin can't for but I can a similar situation from my hedge fund days. I interviewed lots of interns and junior full-time folks worked in infrastructure groups trading They claimed it was experience learning how markets work, how behaved, etc, and wanted to move to front-office. the vast were completely clueless of how the class worked or even what instruments their code pushing through databases, booking systems, and PNL calculators. Keep in mind I'm not faulting them ignorant of the actual strategy (which by the keeps secret). college candidates enough to play around with an options- enabled eTrade account during have far more market knowledge and passion for finance than 2nd infrastructure or trading coder at a bulge-bracket It that the IT guys into least finance, after to keep an open for years, I can understand why firms are so shift their way to front- office. For anyone to make the move, my advice is the extra time to learn about the liquid you are plumbing through system, get about the underlying finance and math, and then firms, because your current likely won't let you make the leap. EDIT: Responding comment Hard work a high threshold pain will get pretty far in I suspect
 I never wanted to be a career WaLl Streeter. i viewEd mY tiMe In baNkinG
as a continuatiON of mY education. And you know whAt, froM tHAt peRSpEctivE it
was iNCrEDIblE. THe NeaRlY UnDeniaBle Reality Is that the sKilLs And knowledge
ACqUired in banKinG are remarkabLy vAluablE aNd bROadly AppLicabLe throUGhout
oNes career. coNTrary tO UninforMED oPiniOn, it is not all about SPrEAdsheets
and powErpoinTs - IT’s ABOut UndErstanding FlOws of CAsh throUGh COMPanIEs,
analyzing maRkets, thinkiNG crIticalLy AboUT stratEgy anD cOMpeTition, and
imPortAntly, idenTifyinG And valuINg opporTunitiEs."

THis Is so FAr FrOm tHe TRutH. moSt jUNioR bankers CoMe Away lEarnING LIttlE
reLevaNt or vAluable towardS acTual BUsiNess aNd the StarTuP worlD.

~~~
leeliN
I can'T sPeak for bankers, bUt I cAn confirm A siMiLar SiTuatiON from mY heDge
Fund dayS.

I interVIewEd LOTS oF interns and junior fUlL-TImE folks whO workeD In iT OR
infrastRuCtuRe grOUPs supPortINg Trading dEsks. ThEY aLl Claimed It Was a
grEaT exPerIence LEarnIng how Markets wOrk, hoW Their asset clasSEs behaved,
etc, aND wANTeD To moVe tO front-officE. SadLY, the Vast MAjOriTY were
ComplEtELy CLueless of how the asseT cLass woRked oR even what instRuments
theIR COde was puShinG ThROugh databases, bOokinG systems, anD pNL
calcuLatorS. Keep in mInd I'm not fAULting theM foR beIng IgnORAnT of the
actual tRADing StRategy (wHicH by desiGn tHe fRonT-ofFiCe keeps a sEcret).

FreSh CoLlEgE caNdidaTEs fortunAtE enOuGh tO play ARound wIth an OptiOnS-
eNAblEd eTradE AcCOUnt dUrInG undErgRaD have Far mORe mArket knOwledge anD
paSSion FoR fInance tHan say, a 2nd year InFrastructuRe Or tRading PLAtform
coDer at a bulge-bracket bank.

IT Stinks tHat The IT Guys Get pigeon-HolEd into The LEast glAmorouS part Of
FinANCe, but AFTeR trYiNg to keep an OPEn mInd foR yEars, i can undErstand now
why firms ARe sO reluctant to lEt tHeir BACk-OffICe SHifT tHEir WAY to front-
office. FOr anyone trYiNG tO make the moVE, my AdVice is tAke the eXtra tIMe
to leaRn about thE liquid yoU aRe plUMBinG through thE system, gEt truly
paSSionaTE aBout tHe uNderlyInG fiNance And matH, And Then cHange fIrMs,
becaUse yoUr Current oNe likely won't let you make tHe leap.

eDIT: REspOnding to cOmmENt bElow. Hard wOrk aNd a high thrEshOld For paIn
wILl get SomeONe PreTTy far In fiNAnce, but I sUSpEct NOT
 I never wanted to be a ca reer WallStree ter . I  v iewe d my  time in banki n g
as  a continuation of myeduca ti o n. A n dyou k now wha t ,f r omth at  pe rs p ec tiveitwas inc redible. T hene arly undenia b le  reality i s t hat the skil lsand kn ow led g e
acq uir ed in  banki n g areremarkabl yv aluabl e  and br o a dl y ap plicable througho u to nes career. Co ntrary  t o  u n i nfo rme d opinion,  i t isn ot alla bo u t spr e adsheets
andpowerpoints - i t’s ab ou t u n dersta nding  f l ows  of cash th roug h compani es,
an a lyzingm arkets,  think ing  cr itic a ll yabo ut str a te gya ndcompetit io n,  andimpo r t a n tly,  id enti fying  and valuingopp ortu n iti es."
This  isso  farfrom t he tr ut h. Most juniorbank ers comeawa ylea rn ing l i ttle
r ele van t or va luablet owa rd s a ct ual business and t he s ta rtup wor ld.

~ ~ ~le e lin
I ca n' t s peak f or ba nker s ,but I ca n conf i rm  a  simila rsituat io n f rom  my h e dgefund d ays.

Iinter v iewed lots ofi nterns and ju n io r fu l l-ti mefolks who w orke d  inIT o r 
i nfr a struc turegr o up s  supporting trading  d esks.Theyall claimed i t was a
gr e a t  experie ncel ea r ning how marke ts wo rk, how th e ir asset  clas ses beha ved,
etc, a nd wante d t o m ove  to f ro nt-office. Sa d l y, t he  vast m ajo rity we recom ple tel ycluelessof how t he  a ss et  cl ass w o rked orev enwh atinstr u mentstheir  cod ewa s  pu shing t h ro u g h da ta ba ses,  bo ok ing s yste m s,and PNL 
calculat ors .  Kee pin  mind I 'm not faulti ng  them forbe ing  ignor a n t of the 
actual trading strateg y  (which  by  desi gn t he front- off ice ke eps a secr et).
Fresh  c oll e g e can d i da tes  f ortunate e n o ugh  to p la y ar ound wi th an options-
ena b led  eTrade accou ntduri n g  u nde r gr a d h av e  fa r more market kno wledge and 
p a ss ion for fi n anc ethan sa y, a 2n d yea r  infras tructureor tradin gplat f o rmcoder at a  bulge-b racket ba n k.

I t  s tinks  th at the  I T g uys g et pig e on- holed  intoth e leas t gla mo rous par t of
finance, but after  tryin g tokee p an open  mi n d f or years,  I c an underst and  no w
why  fi r ms ar e so re luc t ant t o le t  their ba c k- off i c eshift their w a y t o fro nt- office . Fo r anyone trying t o  make the move , my a dvi cei s ta ke  the extra tim e
t ol e arn abou tthe liquidyou arepl u mbing  throu gh the  system , ge t  truly 
pas sio nate abou t t he underly in gf inance  and  m ath, a nd the n  cha n g e firms,
because  your c urren t  on e lik el y won't letyou make t he leap.

E DIT: R espo nding  to com me nt bel ow.  H ard work a n d a highthres hold fo rpain 
wi ll get  som e o ne pr etty  f arin financ e ,  b u tIs usp ectnot
 I_never wanted_to be a career_Wall Streeter._I_viewed my_time_in banking
as a_continuation of my_education. And you know_what, from that_perspective_it
was incredible. The nearly undeniable reality is that the skills and knowledge
acquired in banking_are_remarkably valuable_and_broadly_applicable throughout
ones career. Contrary to_uninformed opinion, it is not_all about_spreadsheets
and powerpoints - it’s about understanding flows of_cash_through companies,
analyzing markets,_thinking critically about strategy and competition, and
importantly, identifying and_valuing opportunities."

This is so far from_the truth. Most_junior_bankers_come away learning little
relevant_or valuable towards actual business and_the startup world.

~~~
leelin
I can't speak for_bankers, but I can confirm a similar_situation from my hedge
fund days.

I interviewed_lots of interns and junior_full-time folks_who worked in IT or
infrastructure_groups supporting trading_desks. They_all claimed it_was a
great experience learning how markets_work, how their_asset classes behaved,
etc, and wanted to_move_to front-office. Sadly,_the_vast_majority were
completely_clueless of how_the_asset class_worked_or even what instruments
their code was_pushing_through databases, booking systems, and PNL
calculators. Keep_in mind I'm not_faulting_them for being ignorant_of the
actual trading strategy (which_by design the front-office keeps a_secret).

Fresh college_candidates fortunate_enough to play around with an options-
enabled eTrade account during undergrad_have far more market knowledge and
passion_for finance than say,_a 2nd_year_infrastructure or trading_platform
coder_at a_bulge-bracket bank.

It stinks that the IT guys_get pigeon-holed_into the least glamorous part of
finance,_but after trying to_keep_an open mind for years, I_can understand now
why firms are so_reluctant to let their back-office_shift_their_way to front-
office. For anyone_trying to make the move, my_advice is take_the extra time
to learn about the liquid_you_are plumbing through the system, get_truly
passionate_about the underlying finance and math,_and_then_change firms,
because your current one_likely won't let you make the_leap.

EDIT: Responding to comment below. Hard work and a_high threshold for_pain
will get someone pretty far_in_finance,_but I suspect not