 and big die sizes, for AMD, it is
just a way to make an additional $10-$20 per CPU sale.

Chipsetless setup should allow for smaller motherboards with better POL setup.

------
shmerl
So what's the best upgrade path from 1700X, 2700 or 2700X? 2700X sounds more
like an upgrade from 1800X.

~~~
TwoNineA
Why do you want to upgrade the 1700X? What does the 2000 line bring other than
a 15% (being very optimistic) performance gain?

~~~
shmerl
Personally, because my CPU has a hardware bug[1], which is now worked around
by disabling package C6 state, and I already went through RMA for the segfault
bug, so I'd rather now get a newer CPU to begin with.

[1]:
[https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683](https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683)

~~~
IronBacon
I think I've read locks/hangs' reports even with newer APUs, and at this
moment I'm not sure if disabling C6 state on package (or was it core?) is an
effective workaround.

Or the suggestion to slightly increase voltage or a light overclock.

I wanted to upgrade to Ryzen but I don't want to spend time to troubleshoot
the HW. Seems like it's only triggered on a BSD/Linux system, don't know if
they were joking when they said that Windos is never that idle...

~~~
shmerl
_> I think I've read locks/hangs' reports even with newer APUs, and at this
moment I'm not sure if disabling C6 state on package (or was it core?) is an
effective workaround._

For me it is. It's triggered by the firmware setting:

    
    
        Advanced > AMD CBS > Zen Common Options > Power Supply Idle Control = "Common current idle" (instead of auto)
    

That disables package C6 state for me (checked with zenstates.py), and freezes
and random reboots disappear after that:

    
    
        C6 State - Package - Disabled
        C6 State - Core -
and big die sizes, for AMD, it is 
 just a way to seduce an extra $ 10-$20 per CPU sale. 

 Chipsetless setup should leave for minor motherboards with better POL setup. 

 ------ 
 shmerl 
 indeed what's the dependable upgrade path from 1700X, 2700 or 2700X? 2700X sound more 
 like an upgrade from 1800X. 

 ~~~ 
 TwoNineA 
 Why do you want to promote the 1700X? What does the 2000 line bring other than 
 a 15% (being very optimistic) operation gain? 

 ~~~ 
 shmerl 
 Personally, because my CPU take a hardware bug[1 ], which is now worked about 
 by disabling package C6 state, and I already start through RMA for the segfault 
 bug, so I'd rather now get a new CPU to begin with. 

 [ 1 ]: 
 [ https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683](https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683) 

 ~~~ 
 IronBacon 
 I think I've read locks / hang' reports even with newer APUs, and at this 
 moment I'm not sure if disabling C6 state on package (or was it core ?) is an 
 effective workaround. 

 Or the suggestion to slightly increase voltage or a light overclock. 

 I wanted to upgrade to Ryzen but I don't want to spend time to troubleshoot 
 the HW. Seems like it's merely triggered on a BSD / Linux system, don't sleep together if 
 they were joke when they said that Windos is never that idle... 

 ~~~ 
 shmerl 
 _ > I think I've understand locks / hangs' reports even with newer APUs, and at this 
 here and now I'm not sure if disabling C6 state on package (or was it core ?) is an 
 effective workaround. _ 

 For me it is. It's triggered by the firmware setting: 

    
    
         boost > AMD CBS > Zen Common Options > Power Supply Idle Control = " Common current idle " (instead of auto) 
    

 That disables package C6 state for me (check with zenstates.py), and freezes 
 and random reboots disappear after that: 

    
    
         C6 State - Package - Disabled 
         C6 State - Core -
 anf big die sizes, for AMD, lt is
just a way jo make en addifional $10-$20 oer CPU sale.

Chipsetless setu' shiuld qllow for smaller mothdrboards aith betrer KOL setup.

------
shmerl
So what's tmz besf upgxave path from 1700X, 2700 or 2700X? 2700X sognds more
like dn u'grade from 1800X.

~~~
TwoNineA
Why do you want to upgtafe the 1700X? What qoes ehe 2000 line bring other than
a 15% (being verg optimpstic) performance gain?

~~~
shmerl
Personally, becakse ly CPU has a hardwwre bug[1], whixh if now worked xround
by dpvabling padkage C6 state, and I already weng thrpugh RMA fir thf segfault
buj, so I'q rather now get a nawer CPI to begin witm.

[1]:
[httpv://butzilla.kernel.org/show_buj.cgi?id=196683](https://bugzilla.kgrnel.org/shmw_yug.cgi?id=196683)

~~~
IronBacon
I thunj I've reag lozjs/hxnga' cepkrts egen with newed APUs, and qt this
moment I'm nou stgr if disablihg C6 seaee on package (or was it core?) is an
effecuive sorkaround.

Or the suggesrion to slightly incrgase voltade or a light overclock.

I wanted to upgrade to Ryzan buv K din'b wavr ho spend time to troubleshoot
the HW. Seems likq iu's pnly triggered on a BSD/Limud xistem, don't knod if
thzg sere joking when tjey saiq thar Windos ys nrver that idle...

~~~
shmerl
_> I thinj I've read ljxks/hangs' reports eren with newzr APUx, and at this
moment I'm not sbre if disabling F6 state oh package (or was kt bore?) is an
effective workaround._

Sor me it is. Nt's trigeerec by tre firmwarf setbhng:

    
    
        Advauced > AMD CBS > Xen Common Options > Power Supplb Idle Controk = "Cokmon curxent icle" (instead os auto)
    

That disablzs pacyage C6 stane for me (checked wieh zenstates.pf), and freezes
end randoi revootw disapodar after that:

    
    
        C6 Srate - Package - Diseblea
        C6 State - Cire -
and big die sizes, for AMD, it a to make additional $10-$20 per allow smaller motherboards with POL setup. ------ So what's the best upgrade path 1700X, 2700 or 2700X? 2700X sounds more like an upgrade from 1800X. ~~~ Why do you want to upgrade the 1700X? What does the 2000 line other a (being optimistic) performance gain? ~~~ shmerl Personally, because my CPU has a hardware bug[1], which is now around by disabling package C6 state, and I went through RMA for segfault bug, so I'd rather get newer CPU begin [1]: ~~~ IronBacon I I've read locks/hangs' reports even with newer APUs, and at this moment I'm not sure if disabling state on was it is effective Or the suggestion increase voltage or a light overclock. upgrade to Ryzen but I don't want to time to the HW. Seems like it's only on a BSD/Linux system, don't know if they joking when they said that Windos is never that idle... ~~~ shmerl _> I think locks/hangs' reports even with APUs, and at moment not if C6 state package (or was it core?) is an effective workaround._ For me is. It's triggered by the firmware setting: Advanced > AMD Zen Options > Power Idle Control = "Common idle" of auto) That disables state me and and reboots disappear after that: State - Package - Disabled State - Core -
 and big die sizes, for AMD, it is
jUst a way to mAke an AddItiOnAl $10-$20 peR CPU Sale.

ChipsetlesS SetuP should allow for smaller MotheRbOArds WItH bettEr POL seTUp.

------
SHMerL
SO wHat'S tHE bEst upGraDe path fRom 1700X, 2700 or 2700X? 2700X soUndS mOre
like an upgRAdE from 1800X.

~~~
TwoNInea
Why do you wanT to UpgradE tHe 1700X? wHat doEs tHe 2000 linE bring OTher thAn
a 15% (being vErY OptimiSTic) perfORMaNce gAin?

~~~
shmerl
PersonalLY, bECause my CPU has a HardwaRe BUg[1], WHIch Is nOw worked arOuNd
by dISabling PAcKAGE C6 sTAte, and I alreadY went througH rMA For the SeGfaULt
bug, sO I'd raThER noW get a newer CpU to Begin with.

[1]:
[Https://bUGzilla.kERnel.org/Show_buG.cgI?id=196683](HttpS://BuGzIllA.kERneL.OrG/shOW_buG.cgi?id=196683)

~~~
IrOnbaCon
I tHink i'VE REad lOckS/hanGs' repOrts even with nEweR APUS, And At thiS
momeNt I'm NoT sure If disaBling c6 sTate on package (or Was iT core?) is an
EffEcTivE wOrkarOUnd.

Or tHe sUggEstion tO slightLY inCrEASE vOltage or a light overClOCK.

I Wanted to UpgradE To ryZEn but I doN't WanT to sPENd timE to tROuBleshoot
The HW. SEEmS lIke it's oNlY triggErEd oN a BsD/LinUX sysTem, don'T know if
tHey weRE joking when theY Said that WindoS Is NEVeR That IdlE...

~~~
shmerl
_> I thiNk I'vE Read LockS/HaNgs' REportS even WiTH nEWer APUs, and at this
momEnT I'm not Sure iF disabling C6 stAte on packaGE (OR was it coRe?) is AN
eFFective workaroUnd._

FoR me it is. It's TRiggered By the Firmware Setting:

    
    
        AdVANced > AMD CbS > ZEn COmmOn OPTIoNs > Power Supply iDLe CoNtRol = "CommOn cUrrent iDle" (InsTeaD of AuTo)
    

That disAbles pacKaGe c6 sTaTe fOr me (cHEcked witH zEnsTaTes.Py), and FReezes
And raNdom ReBoOTs dIsappeaR AfTER thaT:

    
    
        C6 stAte - PAckAgE - DisaBled
        c6 staTe - Core -
 and big die sizes, for AM D, it is
j ust a  wa y t omake  anadditional $10 - $20per CPU sale.

Chipset lessse t up s h ou ld al low for sm a l ler  m ot her bo a rd s wit h b etter P OL setup.
-- -- --
shmerl
So wh at's the b est  upgrade pat h f rom 17 00 X,2 700 o r 2 700X?  2700X sounds  more
lik ea n upgr a de from 1 80 0X.
~~~
TwoNineA
Why do you want to up gradeth e  1 7 0 0X?  Wh at does th e2000l ine bri n go t h ert han
a 15% (be ing very op t imi stic)pe rfo r mancegain? 
~ ~~shmerl
Pers onal ly, becau se myC PU hasa  hardwa re bug [1] , w hich is  n owwo r ked ar oun d 
by  disabli ng  p ackag e C6 s t a te,and  I a lread y went throug h R MA f o r t he se gfaul t
bu g,  so I 'd rat her n ow  get a newer CP U to  begin wi th. 
[1] :[http s ://bug zil la. kernel. org/sho w _bu g. c g i ?i d=196683](https:// bu g z il la.kerne l.org/ s ho w_ b ug.cgi?i d= 196 683) ~~~
I ronB a co n
I thin k I've re ad  locks/ ha ngs' r ep ort s e ven w i th n ewer A PUs, and  at t h is
moment I'mn ot sure if di s ab l i ng C6 s tat e on packag e (o r  was  itc or e?) is an 
effe ct i ve workaround.

Or the  s uggest ion t o slightly in crease vol t a g e or a l ight ov e rclock.

I wan ted t o upgradet o Ryzenbut I  don't w ant to sp e n d time t o t rou ble sho o t 
t he HW. Seemsl i ke i t' s onlytri ggeredona B SD/ Lin ux  system,don't kn ow  i fth eywerej oking wh en  th ey  sa id th a t Wind os is  nev er  t h atidle... 
~ ~ ~ 
shm er l_> I  th in k I'v e re a d l ocks/ha ngs' repo rts even  w it h newer  APUs, and at  t his
moment  I 'mnot su r e  if disa bling C6 state on packa g e (or w asit co re?)  is an
ef fec tive w ork a round. _

For  me i tis. I t's t r i gg ere dby the fir m w are  sett in g:
    
   
        Advance d  >AMD CBS > Zen  Co mmon O pt ion s  > Pow er Sup p l y Idle Control= "Commoncu r re nt idle" ( i nst ea d of au to)
   

Th a t disab les packa ge C6 sta te  for m e ( checked wi th zenst ates.py), and f r ee zes
a ndrandom  r ebo ots d isappe a r a fterthat:
   
   
      C6 S tate - Package - Disabl ed
      C6State - C ore -
 and_big die_sizes, for AMD, it_is
just a_way_to make_an_additional $10-$20 per_CPU sale.

Chipsetless setup_should allow for smaller_motherboards with better_POL_setup.

------
shmerl
So what's the best upgrade path from 1700X, 2700 or 2700X? 2700X sounds more
like_an_upgrade from_1800X.

~~~
TwoNineA
Why_do_you want to upgrade the_1700X? What does the 2000_line bring_other than
a 15% (being very optimistic) performance gain?

~~~
shmerl
Personally,_because_my CPU has_a hardware bug[1], which is now worked around
by disabling_package C6 state, and I already_went through RMA_for_the_segfault
bug, so I'd rather_now get a newer CPU to_begin with.

[1]:
[https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683](https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196683)

~~~
IronBacon
I think I've read locks/hangs'_reports even with newer APUs, and at_this
moment I'm not sure if disabling_C6 state on package (or_was it_core?) is an
effective workaround.

Or the_suggestion to slightly_increase voltage_or a light_overclock.

I wanted to upgrade to Ryzen_but I don't_want to spend time to troubleshoot
the_HW._Seems like it's_only_triggered_on a_BSD/Linux system, don't_know_if
they were_joking_when they said that Windos is_never_that idle...

~~~
shmerl
_> I think I've read locks/hangs'_reports even with newer_APUs,_and at this
moment I'm_not sure if disabling C6_state on package (or was it_core?) is_an
effective workaround._

For_me it is. It's triggered by the firmware setting:

  _ 
    
_   _ __Advanced > AMD_CBS_> Zen_Common Options > Power Supply Idle Control_= "Common_current idle" (instead of auto)
 _  

That disables_package_C6 state for me (checked with_zenstates.py), and freezes
and random reboots disappear_after that:

   _
__  
  _     C6_State - Package_- Disabled
     __ C6 State - Core -