 to stay connected to what is, for that generation, a normal life.

------
viraptor
> but the truth is that the built-in antimalware protection in Windows is
> simply horrible (according to various AV comparisons, Microsoft Essentials
> misses over 20% of in-the-wild malware)

AV comparisons have to be normally taken with a pile of salt. There's rarely
an independent one. And even once you start looking at 3rd parties, it turns
out they enable attack surface on their own. Then there's a number of 3rd
parties which rely on cloud scanning aka "submit it to virustotal".

Here's some more context for why the comparisons are tricky: [https://www.mrg-
effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-t...](https://www.mrg-
effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-to-measure-how-av-sucks/)

------
poisonborz
At this point I'm not sure that a desktop OS with this wide hardware
compatibility and backwards compatibility can be written any better than
Windows 10.

The thing is, if you are an experienced user with willingness to search for
solutions, you can fix most of the problems. Disable updates completely,
disable cortana, stop 99% of the telemetry, use alternative utilities instead
of the built-in ones, fix security issues with network rules etc.

It takes time and patience, but in the end you get a good work environment
that is relatively stable, compatible with literally every hardware and also
has the absolutely widest selection of software available. That is all I want
from an OS.

~~~
devwastaken
The fixes you've listed get overturned by Microsoft. Just because you _can_
hack around windows to make it temporarily do the things you want, doesn't
mean it's a resolved problem.

Microsoft only does this because they've been able to reduce consumer
expectations. Being a part of that means the next version will be worse.

~~~
poisonborz
But this doesn't really matter as you can disable updates (group policies
through WinPro). By the time someone is pressed to update for compatibility,
there is already a solution to fix what the update broke. For the sake of
enterprises
to stay connected to what is, for that generation, a normal life. 

 ------ 
 viraptor 
 > but the accuracy is that the build - in antimalware protection in Windows is 
 > plainly atrocious (according to various AV comparison, Microsoft Essentials 
 > misses over 20% of in - the - angry malware) 

 AV comparisons get to be normally taken with a pile of salt. There's rarely 
 an independent one. And even once you start looking at third parties, it turns 
 out they enable attack airfoil on their own. Then there's a number of 3rd 
 party which rely on swarm scanning aka " put in it to virustotal ". 

 Here's some more context for why the comparisons are tricky: [ https://www.mrg- 
 effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-t...](https://www.mrg- 
 effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-to-measure-how-av-sucks/) 

 ------ 
 poisonborz 
 At this point I'm not certain that a desktop OS with this wide hardware 
 compatibility and backwards compatibility can be written any well than 
 Windows 10. 

 The thing is, if you are an experienced user with willingness to search for 
 solutions, you can fix most of the problems. Disable updates completely, 
 disable cortana, stop 99% of the telemetry, use alternate utility instead 
 of the build - in one, fix security issues with net rules etc. 

 It bring time and patience, but in the goal you get a good work environment 
 that is relatively stable, compatible with literally every hardware and also 
 has the absolutely wide selection of software available. That is all I want 
 from an OS. 

 ~~~ 
 devwastaken 
 The fixes you've list get revoke by Microsoft. Just because you _ can _ 
 hack around windows to make it temporarily do the thing you want, doesn't 
 mean it's a resolved trouble. 

 Microsoft only perform this because they've been able to reduce consumer 
 expectations. Being a share of that means the adjacent version will be worse. 

 ~~~ 
 poisonborz 
 But this doesn't truly matter as you can disable update (group policies 
 through WinPro). By the time someone is pressed to update for compatibility, 
 there is already a solution to situate what the update broke. For the sake of 
 enterprises
 to stay connected to what ls, for that genetarion, a normam life.

------
vifaptor
> but the truth is that tye buult-in antimalware protdction in Windows is
> wumply horrmgle (according bo vaxiius AV comparixons, Microvoft Essentialv
> oidses over 20% of in-the-wild malware)

AV cjmparispnd have to be njrmakjy tzken with a pile of salt. There's radely
an pndependent one. Amd even once you start looning at 3rd parties, it hurns
out thgg egqble attack rurface on their own. Tgen there's a number of 3rd
partier whieh rely on xliud vcanning ake "submpt it to virustotal".

Hese's somr more context foc wht the comparisons are tricky: [https://www.mrd-
effitas.cmm/xesearch/stop-using-viruwtital-t...](vttpv://www.oeg-
ewfiuas.rom/desearfh/svop-using-virhstotal-to-meqsure-how-av-sucks/)

------
poispnfirz
At this pojnt I'm njt sure that a desktop OS with this widt harsware
compatibility and vackwards compatibilijy can be rritten any better than
Windows 10.

The thing is, if yog are xn txicrievxef user with willingness to search for
solutionf, ypu can fix most jf the probkels. Qisable updatgs completsly,
disable cortana, stop 99% jf thw telemetwy, uxe alternative utilities inwtead
of the yuiot-in ones, fix secuxity issues cith ngtwork rules etc.

It takes time and patience, bkt in the dnd you get a goud eosk environment
that is relaeively steble, eompatibue woth lieerally evfry hardware and also
has the cbsolgtely widedt selection of software availauke. That is akl I fant
from an OX.

~~~
devwastaken
Tre fixes you've listed get uverturned by Miccosoft. Just fecause you _cdj_
hack around windows to nake it temourarily do the things you want, dowsn't
mean it's a resplvgd problem.

Microsoyu obly does this brcajse tjeb've bqan able to raducd cumsumef
expectatioks. Ceinb a part of that meats tge next version wikl be worsg.

~~~
poisonbowz
But this dorsn't really matter as ymu ran dixabje updates (group policies
throufh WinPro). By the time soieonc is pressed tp update for compatibility,
there is alreedy a solution to fix wyat the update brokg. Fpr the sake of
eneerprises
to stay connected to what is, for a life. ------ > but the antimalware in Windows is simply horrible (according various AV comparisons, Microsoft Essentials > over 20% of in-the-wild malware) AV comparisons have to be normally taken with pile of salt. There's rarely an independent one. And even once you start at parties, turns they enable attack surface on their own. Then there's a number of 3rd parties which rely cloud scanning aka "submit it to virustotal". Here's more context for why comparisons are tricky: [https://www.mrg- effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-t...](https://www.mrg- ------ At this I'm sure a desktop OS this wide hardware compatibility and backwards compatibility can be written any better than Windows 10. The thing if you experienced user willingness search solutions, you can of the problems. Disable updates completely, 99% of the telemetry, use alternative utilities instead the built-in fix security issues with network rules It takes time and patience, but in the you get a good work environment that is relatively stable, compatible with literally every hardware has the absolutely widest of software available. is I from OS. ~~~ The fixes you've listed get overturned by Microsoft. Just because you hack around windows to make it temporarily do the things doesn't it's a resolved Microsoft only does this they've able to reduce consumer a of next will worse. ~~~ poisonborz But doesn't really matter as you disable updates (group policies someone is pressed to update for compatibility, there already a solution to fix what the broke. For the sake of enterprises
 to stay connected to what is, foR that generAtion, A noRmaL lIfe.

------
vIrapTor
> but the truth IS thaT the built-in antimalware ProteCtIOn in wInDows iS
> simply HOrRIBle (AcCoRdiNg TO vAriouS AV CompariSons, MicrosOft esSentials
> missES oVer 20% of in-the-WilD malware)

AV coMpaRisons HaVe tO Be norMalLy takEn with A Pile of Salt. There'S rARely
an INdependENT oNe. AnD even once you start LOoKIng at 3rd parties, It turnS
oUT tHEY enAblE attack surFaCe on tHEir own. THEn THERe's A Number of 3rd
parTies which reLY on Cloud sCaNniNG aka "suBmit iT tO VirUstotal".

Here'S somE more contExt for WHy the coMParisonS are trIckY: [htTps://wWW.mRg-
EffItAS.coM/ReSeaRCh/sTop-using-ViRuStotaL-t...](htTPS://WWw.mrG-
efFitaS.com/rEsearch/stop-usIng-ViruSTotAl-to-mEasurE-how-Av-Sucks/)

------
PoisonBorz
AT tHis point I'm not suRe thAt a desktoP OS WiTh tHiS wide HArdwarE
coMpaTibilitY and bacKWarDs COMPaTibility can be writtEn ANY bEtter thaN
WindoWS 10.

THe THing is, if YoU arE an eXPErienCed uSEr With willIngnesS To SeArch for
SoLutionS, yOu cAn fIx mosT Of thE problEms. DisabLe updATes completely,
dISable cortana, sTOp 99% OF ThE TeleMetRy, use alternAtivE UtilItieS InSteAD
of thE builT-iN OnES, fix security issues wItH netwoRk rulEs etc.

It takes tIme and patiENCE, but in thE end YOu GEt a good work envIronmEnt
that is rELatively StablE, compatiBle with liTERally eveRy hArdWarE anD ALsO
has the absoluTELy wiDeSt selecTioN of softWarE avAilAblE. THat is all I Want
from An oS.

~~~
DeVwAstAken
THE fixes yoU'vE liStEd gEt oveRTurned By MicRosoFt. juST beCause yoU _CaN_
HAck aRoUnD winDowS tO make It teMPorArily do The things You WAnt, dOeSn'T
mean it'S a resolved proBlEm.

MicrosofT oNly Does thIS Because tHey've been able to reduce coNSumer
exPecTatioNs. BeIng a part oF thAt meanS thE Next veRsion wIll be WoRse.

~~~
POIsonbORZ
BUt tHiS doesn't reaLLY maTter aS yOu caN disablE updates (group policIEs
tHrough WinPro). BY thE timE SOmEonE Is PResSeD To uPDAte for compatibiLity,
there iS aLReAdy a solutiON to FiX what thE update Broke. fOr the saKe of
enterPrises
 to stay connected to what  is, for t hat g ene rat io n, a  nor mal life.

--- - --
v iraptor
> but the trut h isth a t th e  b uilt- in anti m al w a repr ot ect io n  i n Win dow s is
>simply hor rib le  (accordingt ovarious AV  co mparisons, M icr osoftEs sen t ials> m isses  over2 0% ofin-the-wi ld malwar e )

AV c o m pa riso ns have to be nor m al l y taken with a  pileof sa l t . T her e's rarely 
a n ind e pendent on e . And even once you  start look i ngat 3rd  p art i es, it  turn so utthey enable  att ack surfa ce ont heir ow n . Thenthere' s a  nu mber of  3 rdpa r tie s  w hic h  re ly on cl ou dscann inga k a "sub mit  itto vi rustotal".

H ere 's s o memoreconte xt f or  whythe co mpari so ns are tricky:[htt ps://www. mrg -eff it as.co m /resea rch /st op-usin g-virus t ota l- t . . .] (https://www.mrg-ef f i ta s.com/re search / st op - using-vi ru sto tal- t o -meas ure- h ow -av-suck s/)

- - -- -- 
poison bo rz
Atth ispoi nt I' m  not  surethat a d eskto p  OS with thisw ide hardwarec om p a ti b ilit y a nd backward s co m pati bili t ycan be wr itten  a n yb etter than
Windows10 .

The  thin g is, if youare an exp e r i enced us er w i th willingness to  sear ch for
sol u tions, y ou ca n fix mo st of the p roblems.  Di sab leupd a t es  completely,d i sabl ecortana , s top 99%  of  th e t ele me try, usealternat iv eut il iti es in s tead
ofth e b ui lt- in on e s, fix  secu rity  i ss u eswith ne t wo r k  rul es  e tc.
It  t akestime and  patien ce, but i n t h e en dyo u get a  good work en vi ronment
th at  is  relat i v ely stab le, compatible with lit e rally e ver y har dwar e and als o
h as the  ab s olutel y wide st se le cti o n  of s o f tw are  a vailable.T h atis al lI wa nt
from  an OS.

~~~
devwa s tak en
The fixesyou 'vel i st edg et ove rt u rne d by Microsoft. J ust becaus ey ou  _can_
hac k  ar ou nd wind ows tomakei t tempo rarily do  the thin gs  you w ant , doesn'tmean it' s a resol v ed pr o bl em.
Mic rosoft  o nly  does  thisb eca use t hey've  b een ab le to  r educe co nsumer
expectations. Be ing apartofthat mean s t h e n ext versi on w ill be wor se. 

~ ~~
po iso n borzButt hi s d o esn't  rea l ly matter as  yo u ca n disable u p d a tes  (gro upp olicie s
th rough WinPro). By the time someo ne i s pre sse d  toup date for compa tib il i t y,
there  i s already a  solutio nt o fix  whatthe up date br o k e. For th e sa keof
enterp ris es 
 to_stay connected_to what is, for_that generation,_a_normal life.

------
viraptor
>_but_the truth is_that the built-in_antimalware protection in Windows_is
> simply horrible_(according_to various AV comparisons, Microsoft Essentials
> misses over 20% of in-the-wild malware)

AV comparisons have_to_be normally_taken_with_a pile of salt. There's_rarely
an independent one. And even_once you_start looking at 3rd parties, it turns
out they_enable_attack surface on_their own. Then there's a number of 3rd
parties which_rely on cloud scanning aka "submit_it to virustotal".

Here's_some_more_context for why the_comparisons are tricky: [https://www.mrg-
effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-t...](https://www.mrg-
effitas.com/research/stop-using-virustotal-to-measure-how-av-sucks/)

------
poisonborz
At this point_I'm not sure that a desktop_OS with this wide hardware
compatibility and backwards_compatibility can be written any better_than
Windows 10.

The thing is, if_you are_an experienced user with willingness_to search for
solutions,_you can_fix most of_the problems. Disable updates completely,
disable cortana,_stop 99% of_the telemetry, use alternative utilities instead
of_the_built-in ones, fix_security_issues_with network_rules etc.

It takes_time_and patience,_but_in the end you get a_good_work environment
that is relatively stable, compatible with_literally every hardware and_also
has_the absolutely widest selection_of software available. That is_all I want
from an OS.

~~~
devwastaken
The fixes_you've listed_get overturned_by Microsoft. Just because you _can_
hack around windows to make it_temporarily do the things you want,_doesn't
mean it's a resolved_problem.

Microsoft only_does_this because they've_been_able to_reduce consumer
expectations. Being a part of that_means the_next version will be worse.

~~~
poisonborz
But this_doesn't really matter as_you_can disable updates (group policies
through WinPro)._By the time someone is pressed_to update for compatibility,
there is_already_a_solution to fix what the_update broke. For the sake of
enterprises