/bytecode thing, not part of the library. The
actual feature, lambdas, works just fine on Andorid

Method handles:
[https://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/invoke/Met...](https://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/invoke/MethodHandle.html)

------
joshmarinacci
I think this will be pretty successful. Ultimately the manufacturers want to
do as little software work as possible. If Project Treble gives them
easier/less work to do, then they will adopt it quickly.

------
amluto
One potential side benefit of this type of work: vendor kernel drivers tend to
be insecure buggy pieces of crap. Vendor Treble drivers will surely still be
insecure buggy pieces of crap, but they might be sandboxable. If Google really
has its eyes on the Magenta kernel, I imagine that Treble will be runnable in
user mode, so I bet it really will be sandboxed. This would be a huge win.

------
ibic
Android finally adapted the approach of Windows on PC - OS maker dictates the
software pieces on all devices, the device makers only create the hardware and
write drivers (optionally, some bloatware). I believe this is the right/better
approach, and it solves no only the Android update hassle, but more
importantly the fragmentation issue.

------
bsharitt
Neat, Google has release this years fix for Android updates. I can't wait to
see what next years fix looks like.

------
asciimo
I wonder if this will make it easier to circumvent the vendor layer entirely--
jailbreak without replacing the OS?

------
drewg123
How much of the update problem is due to vendor customized UIs and apps, and
how much is due to not upstreaming driver support for their hardware?

Which of these problems will Project Treble solve? Eg, have they actually
added a stable driver KBI? Or pushed drivers to userspace? Or is this just
about GUIs?

------
ReverseCold
Took them long enough.

------
TwoNineA
You can't fix a business/greed problem with technology.

~~~
wmf
This is true, but Google may have more leverage than they
/bytecode thing, not part of the library. The 
 actual feature, lambdas, works barely very well on Andorid 

 Method handles: 
 [ https://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/invoke/Met...](https://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/invoke/MethodHandle.html) 

 ------ 
 joshmarinacci 
 I think this will be pretty successful. Ultimately the manufacturer want to 
 do as small software work as possible. If Project soprano gives them 
 easier / less oeuvre to do, then they will adopt it cursorily. 

 ------ 
 amluto 
 One likely side benefit of this type of workplace: vendor kernel drivers tend to 
 be insecure balmy pieces of crap. Vendor ternary drivers will surely still be 
 insecure balmy pieces of bullshit, but they might be sandboxable. If Google really 
 has its eyes on the Magenta kernel, I imagine that Treble will be runnable in 
 user mood, so I bet it really will be sandboxed. This would be a huge win. 

 ------ 
 ibic 
 Android finally adapted the approach of Windows on PC - OS maker dictates the 
 software pieces on all devices, the device makers only create the hardware and 
 write driver (optionally, some bloatware). I believe this is the right / well 
 overture, and it solves no only the Android update hassle, but more 
 importantly the atomization issue. 

 ------ 
 bsharitt 
 Neat, Google has liberation this years fix for Android update. I can't wait to 
 see what next years fix looks like. 

 ------ 
 asciimo 
 I wonder if this will lay down it easier to circumvent the vendor layer entirely-- 
 break without replacing the OS? 

 ------ 
 drewg123 
 How much of the update trouble is due to vendor customized UIs and apps, and 
 how much is due to not upstreaming driver support for their hardware? 

 Which of these problems will visualize Treble solve? Eg, have they actually 
 added a stable driver KBI? Or advertise driver to userspace? Or is this just 
 about GUIs? 

 ------ 
 ReverseCold 
 aim them long enough. 

 ------ 
 TwoNineA 
 You can't fix a occupation / greed problem with engineering. 

 ~~~ 
 wmf 
 This is true, but Google may have more leverage than they
/bytfcode thing, not part of uhe library. The
acjuql feavure, lajbdas, wofks just fine on Andorid

Methld handoes:
[https://developer.androkd.com/refegence/java/oang/mnvoke/Met...](https://detsloper.akbroid.dlm/reyecence/java/lang/inyoke/MethodHdndle.html)

------
joshmdrknccci
I think this will be pretty succqssful. Ilhimately the mwnufsstursgs want to
do as little software work av possible. If Project Treble gives them
fasifr/less work to do, hhen they wull weopt it quicyly.

------
amluto
One potential side benefit of this type of wurk: vzndor kerneo eriggrs tend to
bx insebure buggy picbes of wrap. Vemdor Treble drlvers wiol surely still be
insxcure buggy pieces os crap, bud chey might be sandboxqboe. If Goocle fwaluy
hzs ifs eyed oi the Magenfa kernel, I imagine that Treblt wyol be runnabls in
usqr mode, so I bet it really will be sandboqed. Fhis would be a huge wib.

------
ibic
Android finally wdapted tre approach of Windows on PC - OS maker dictates tve
sofvwxre plecer oj all devices, the device makers only create trs nagdware and
write dvivers (optionally, xole floatware). I bglieve cgia is the right/bettfr
approwch, abd it soldes mo only the Android update yassle, but mjee
importantly the yragmentatiou issug.

------
bsharott
Neat, Google has relecse thjs years fid for Andduid updates. I cav't eaht to
see what next years fyx looks oike.

------
csciimo
I woncer if this will make it easier to circulvent tve vendor payer entirely--
jailbreak without replacing the OV?

------
drvwg123
How mueh of bhe update probjem is due to rendor cbstomixed UIs ans apps, end
how much ys due to not opstreaming dciver sup[ort for their fxrdware?

Which og these pgoylems wilo Project Treble splvg? Sg, have they accbaoly
added a stabke arideg KUI? Or [ushed drivess tu urrrspaze? Or is thls gust
sbout GUIs?

------
ReverseColg
Tooi them long enough.

------
YwjNineA
Yoo can't fiv a business/gteed problem with uechnonogb.

~~~
wmf
Thos ys true, but Google may have mode leverahe bhan they
/bytecode thing, not part of the library. feature, works just on Andorid Method think will be pretty Ultimately the manufacturers to do as little software work possible. If Project Treble gives them easier/less work to do, then they will it quickly. ------ amluto One potential side benefit of this type of work: kernel tend be buggy pieces of crap. Vendor Treble drivers will surely still be insecure buggy pieces of crap, they might be sandboxable. If Google really has eyes on the Magenta I imagine that Treble will runnable user mode, I it will be sandboxed. would be a huge win. ------ ibic Android finally adapted the approach of Windows on PC - maker dictates pieces on devices, device only create the write drivers (optionally, some bloatware). I the right/better approach, and it solves no only Android update but more importantly the fragmentation issue. bsharitt Neat, Google has release this years fix Android updates. I can't wait to see what next years fix looks like. ------ asciimo if this will make easier to circumvent vendor entirely-- without the OS? drewg123 How much of the update problem is due to vendor UIs and apps, and how much is due to not support their hardware? Which these problems will Project solve? have they actually added driver Or userspace? is just about GUIs? ------ Took them long enough. ------ You can't fix a wmf This is true, but Google may have leverage than they
/bytecode thing, not part of the Library. The
ActuaL feAtuRe, LambDas, wOrks just fine on aNdorId

Method handles:
[https://deVelopEr.ANdroID.cOm/refErence/jAVa/LANg/iNvOkE/MeT...](hTTpS://deveLopEr.androId.com/referEncE/jAva/lang/invokE/meThodHandle.HtmL)

------
joshmarinacCi
I Think tHiS wiLL be prEttY succEssful. uLtimatEly the manUfACturerS Want to
dO AS lIttlE software work as poSSiBLe. If Project TreBle givEs THeM
EAsiEr/lEss work to dO, tHen thEY will adOPt IT QUicKLy.

------
amluto
One poTential side BEneFit of tHiS tyPE of worK: vendOr KErnEl drivers teNd to
Be insecurE buggy PIeces of CRap. VendOr TrebLe dRivErs wILl SuRelY sTIll BE
iNseCUre Buggy pieCeS oF crap, But tHEY MIght Be sAndbOxablE. If Google realLy
hAs itS EyeS on thE MageNta kErNel, I iMagine That TReBle will be runnabLe in
User mode, sO I bEt It rEaLly wiLL be sanDboXed. this wouLd be a huGE wiN.

------
iBIC
anDroid finally adapteD tHE ApProach of windowS On pC - os maker diCtAteS the
SOFtwarE pieCEs On all devIces, thE DeViCe makerS oNly creAtE thE haRdwarE And
wRite drIvers (optIonalLY, some bloatware). i Believe this is THe RIGhT/BettEr
aPproach, and iT solVEs no Only THe andROid upDate hAsSLe, BUt more
importantly thE fRagmenTatioN issue.

------
bsharitT
Neat, GooglE HAS release This YEaRS fix for Android UpdatEs. I can't waiT To
see whaT next Years fix Looks like.

------
ASCiimo
I woNdeR if ThiS wiLL MaKe it easier to cIRCumvEnT the venDor Layer enTirEly--
JaiLbrEaK without rEplacing ThE Os?

------
dReWg123
HOw mucH Of the updAtE prObLem Is due TO vendoR custOmizEd uIS And Apps, and
HOw MUCh is DuE tO not UpsTrEaminG driVEr sUpport fOr their haRdwARe?

WhIcH oF these pRoblems will PrOjEct Treble sOlVe? EG, have tHEY actuallY
added a stable driver KBI? OR Pushed dRivErs to UserSpace? Or is ThiS just
aBouT gUIs?

------
ReVerseCOld
ToOk TheM LOng enOUGh.

------
twoniNeA
You can't FIX a bUsineSs/GreeD probleM with technology.

~~~
wmf
tHis Is true, but GoogLe mAy haVE MoRe lEVeRAge ThAN thEY
/bytecode thing, not partof the lib rary.  Th e
a ct ualfeat ure, lambdas,w orks  just fine on Andorid
Meth od hand l es :
[ht tps://d e ve l o per .a nd roi d. c om /refe ren ce/java /lang/invo ke/ Me t...](https: / /d eveloper.a ndr oid.com/refe ren ce/jav a/ lan g /invo ke/ Metho dHandl e .html) 

------jo s hmarin a cci
I t h i nk  thi s will be prettys uc c essful. Ultima tely t he ma n u fac tur ers want t odo as littles of t w a rew ork as possib le. If Proj e ctTreble  g ive s  themeasie r/ l ess  work to do , th en they w ill ad o pt it q u ickly.
----- -
a mlu to
O n epo ten ti a l s i de  be n efi t of thi sty pe of  wor k : v endo r k erne l dri vers tend tobeinse c ure  bugg y pie cesof  crap . Vend or Tr eb le drivers will  sur ely still  be 
i nse cu re bu g gy pie ces  of  crap,but the y  mi gh t b esandboxable. If Go og l e  r eally
ha s itse ye so n the Ma ge nta  ker n e l, Iimag i ne  that Tr eble w i ll  b e runna bl e in
u se r m ode , soI  bet  it re ally wil l bes andboxed. This would be a hu g ew i n. 
--- --- 
ibic
Andro id f i nall y ad a pt edt he ap proac ho fW indows on PC - OS m ak er dic tates  the
software  pieces on a l l device s, t h ed evice makers o nly c reate theh ardwareand
w rite dri vers (opt i o nally, s ome  bl oat war e ) .I believe thi s is t he  right/ bet ter
app roa ch,  an d i tsolves no  only th eAn dr oi d u pdate hassle,bu t m or e
i mport a ntly t he fr agme nt at i onissue.-- - - --
b sh ar ittNea t,  Goog le h a s r eleasethis year s f i x fo rAn droid u pdates. I can 't  wait to
s ee  wh at nex t years fi x looks like.

------
a s ciimo
I  wo nderif t his willmak e it e asi e r to c ircumv ent t he  ve n d or la y e rent ir ely--
jail b r eak  with ou t re placing  the OS?

------
d r ewg 123
How muchoftheu p da tep ro b lem  i s  du e to vendor custo mized UIsan d  a pps, and
h o w m uc h is du e to no t ups t reaming  driver s upport fo rthei r har dware?

Wh ich of t hese prob l ems w i ll  Proj ect  Trebl esol ve? E g, hav e  th ey ac tually 
a dded a  stab le  driverKBI? Or pushed driversto use rspac e?Or is thi s j u stabout GUI s?
------
Rev ers eCo ld
To okt hem l onge no ugh . 

--- ---T woNineA
Y o ucan ' t  f ix a busine s s / gre ed pr obl e m with  tec hnology.

~~~
wmf This is true,butG o ogl e m a y ha ve  more leverage  th an t hey
/bytecode thing,_not part_of the library. The
actual_feature, lambdas,_works_just fine_on_Andorid

Method handles:
[https://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/invoke/Met...](https://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/invoke/MethodHandle.html)

------
joshmarinacci
I think_this will be_pretty successful. Ultimately the_manufacturers want to
do_as_little software work as possible. If Project Treble gives them
easier/less work to do, then_they_will adopt_it_quickly.

------
amluto
One_potential side benefit of this_type of work: vendor kernel_drivers tend_to
be insecure buggy pieces of crap. Vendor Treble_drivers_will surely still_be
insecure buggy pieces of crap, but they might be_sandboxable. If Google really
has its eyes_on the Magenta_kernel,_I_imagine that Treble will_be runnable in
user mode, so I_bet it really will be sandboxed._This would be a huge win.

------
ibic
Android finally_adapted the approach of Windows on_PC - OS maker dictates_the
software pieces_on all devices, the device_makers only create_the hardware_and
write drivers (optionally,_some bloatware). I believe this is_the right/better
approach, and_it solves no only the Android_update_hassle, but more
importantly_the_fragmentation_issue.

------
bsharitt
Neat, Google_has release this_years_fix for_Android_updates. I can't wait to
see what_next_years fix looks like.

------
asciimo
I wonder if this_will make it easier_to_circumvent the vendor layer_entirely--
jailbreak without replacing the OS?

------
drewg123
How_much of the update problem is_due to_vendor customized_UIs and apps, and
how much is due to not upstreaming driver_support for their hardware?

Which of these_problems will Project Treble_solve? Eg,_have_they actually
added a_stable_driver KBI?_Or pushed drivers to userspace? Or is_this just
about_GUIs?

------
ReverseCold
Took them long enough.

------
TwoNineA
You can't fix_a business/greed problem with_technology.

~~~
wmf
This_is true, but Google may have_more leverage than they