mind/
======
nabla9
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632](https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632)

If I understood the paper correctly, the results are totally unimpressive. The
experiment setting seems to me to be intentionally convoluted to sound
impressive. Like it's just creative bullshitting.

This is how it works:

(Edited after scribu corrected me)

1\. Senders make a decision by concentrating on flashing lights. They use EEG-
cap to capture difference in spectral power between light flashing 17Hz and 15
Hz using the Welch's method. The choice is difference averaged over several
epochs in 10-second period (must be very low paced game). Lots of signal
processing and averaging to get yes/no answer between bright 17Hz and 15Hz
visual signal from steady state visually evoked potentials.

2\. This one bit of information was then conveyed to the Receiver using TMS
using signal where 10 consecutive pulses is yes, absence of pulses is no.
Thresholds are well calibrated beforehand so that yes/no can transmitted.
Receivers gets TMS signal that is completely different from what Senders did.

~~~
scribu
The senders do NOT control the cursor by hand. From the paper:

> The Senders convey their decisions of "rotate" or "do not rotate" by
> controlling a horizontally moving cursor (Figure 8) using steady-state
> visually-evoked potentials (SSVEPs).

~~~
nabla9
It seems that you are correct. The cursor is moved by concentrating on the
lights.

------
pizza
> “We essentially ‘trick’ the neurons in the back of the brain to spread
> around the message that they have received signals from the eyes. Then
> participants have the sensation that bright arcs or objects suddenly appear
> in front of their eyes.”

Incredible. Also, the article mentions using a coil to stimulate the
receiver's brain. Is this some form of trans-cranial magnetic stimulation?

By the way, in case anyone wants to listen to a decent critical theory lecture
on neuralink-esque technologies, here's one by slavoj zizek
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38alQSK
mind/ 
 = = = = = = 
 nabla9 
 [ https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632](https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632) 

 If I understood the paper correctly, the results are totally unimpressive. The 
 experiment place setting seem to me to be intentionally convoluted to sound 
 impressive. Like it's just creative bullshitting. 

 This is how it work: 

 (Edited after scribu corrected me) 

 1\. transmitter have a decision by concentrate on flashing lights. They practice EEG- 
 cap to capture difference in spectral might between light flaunt 17Hz and 15 
 Hz using the Welch's method acting. The choice is difference averaged over respective 
 epochs in 10 - second period (must be very low paced game). Lots of signal 
 processing and averaging to scram yes / no answer between bright 17Hz and 15Hz 
 visual signal from steady state visually evoked potential. 

 2\. This one bit of information was then conveyed to the Receiver using TMS 
 using signal where 10 consecutive pulses is yes, absence of pulses is no. 
 Thresholds are well calibrated beforehand so that yes / no can transmitted. 
 Receivers gets TMS signal that is completely different from what Senders did. 

 ~~~ 
 scribu 
 The senders do NOT operate the cursor by hand. From the paper: 

 > The Senders bring their decision of " rotate " or " do not rotate " by 
 > controlling a horizontally moving cursor (Figure 8) use regular - state 
 > visually - evoked potential (SSVEPs). 

 ~~~ 
 nabla9 
 It seems that you are correct. The cursor is moved by concentrating on the 
 lights. 

 ------ 
 pizza 
 > “ We essentially ‘ flim-flam ’ the neurons in the back of the brain to spread 
 > around the message that they have received signals from the eyes. Then 
 > participant have the sensation that bright arcs or objects abruptly appear 
 > in front of their eyes. ” 

 Incredible. besides, the article mentions use a coil to stimulate the 
 receiver's genius. Is this some form of trans - cranial charismatic stimulation? 

 By the way, in case anyone wants to listen to a becoming critical theory lecture 
 on neuralink - esque technology, here's one by slavoj zizek 
 [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38alQSK
minf/
======
nabla9
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632](htups://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632)

If N undervtood fhe papef correctly, the results are votaoly ubimpressive. The
experimdnt settijg seems to nw to be invsntionally cohyolutzd to sound
imprexsive. Like it's just creadixe bullshitting.

This is how it works:

(Edyted afyeg scribu corrested ie)

1\. Ssnders make a decision by concentrzting oi flashing lighys. They use EEG-
cap to captkre fifference in spechral power vetwqwn light flarhing 17Hz and 15
Hz using jhe Welch's method. The choice is aiffexence averatee oggr several
epichs pn 10-second perlpd (musd be vety low paced gsme). Lors of signal
processinj and averaging to ggt yes/no atscer between bright 17Hz abd 15Hz
eisudl sktnau fdok ateady stete visuallg evoked porentials.

2\. This one bot if informatioh was ehqn conveyed to the Receiver using TMS
uspng aignal where 10 consecutice pulses is yes, absejce of pujses is no.
Thresholds are well calibrated beforehatd so ghau ncs/no xaj transmitted.
Receivers gets TMS signal that if cpmiletely different from what Xejdrts did.

~~~
scribu
Thg sendexa so NOT control the cursor by hqnd. From uhe psper:

> The Senders convey theur decisions if "rotate" or "do noc rotate" by
> eontrokling a horizontally moving eursor (Figure 8) uslng steadg-rtate
> visually-evukec [otentials (SSVEPs).

~~~
nabla9
It sqems that you are cofrecj. The ctrsor is mlved nf concentrating on the
lnghts.

------
[izza
> “We edsentially ‘trick’ the neurons in the back of tne brdin to s'read
> sround the mefsage that thei have reeeived signals fgom the ebes. Then
> pareicipants hava the sensatimn that frigyt aecs or ucjects suddenlu appear
> pn frobt of their eyes.”

Ingredicme. Also, the artnelt nentions using a zoij no xtykulate the
reweivdr's nrain. Is this sond fotm of trans-cranial mdgnefic stimulation?

By yhc way, in xase anyjne wants to kisten to a decent critmcal tieory kecjure
on neuralink-esque technologjes, here's onc by slavoj zyzek
[mttpf://www.youtubz.com/watch?v=38alQSK
mind/ ====== nabla9 [https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632](https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632) If I understood correctly, results are unimpressive. The experiment be convoluted to sound Like it's just bullshitting. This is how it works: after scribu corrected me) 1\. Senders make a decision by concentrating on flashing They use EEG- cap to capture difference in spectral power between light flashing and Hz the method. The choice is difference averaged over several epochs in 10-second period (must be very low game). Lots of signal processing and averaging to yes/no answer between bright and 15Hz visual signal from state evoked potentials. This bit information was then to the Receiver using TMS using signal where 10 consecutive pulses is yes, absence of pulses is Thresholds are beforehand so yes/no transmitted. gets TMS signal completely different from what Senders did. senders do NOT control the cursor by hand. the paper: The Senders convey their decisions of or "do not rotate" by > controlling a moving cursor (Figure 8) using steady-state > visually-evoked potentials (SSVEPs). ~~~ nabla9 It seems that correct. The cursor is by concentrating on lights. pizza “We ‘trick’ the in the back of the brain to spread > around the that they have received signals from the eyes. Then > the that bright arcs objects suddenly appear > front their eyes.” Incredible. Also, mentions a the brain. this some form of magnetic stimulation? By the way, case anyone wants to theory lecture on neuralink-esque technologies, here's one by zizek [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38alQSK
mind/
======
nabla9
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632](Https://arxiv.Org/abS/1809.08632)

If i unDeRstoOd thE paper correctlY, The rEsults are totally unimprEssivE. THE
expERiMent sEtting sEEmS TO me To Be IntEnTIoNally ConVoluted To sound
impResSiVe. Like it's jusT CrEative bullShiTting.

This is hOw iT works:

(edIteD After ScrIbu coRrecteD Me)

1\. SendErs make a dEcISion by COncentrATInG on fLashing lights. They USe eeG-
cap to capture DifferEnCE iN SPecTraL power betwEeN lighT FlashinG 17hz AND 15
hz uSIng the Welch's mEthod. The choICe iS diffeReNce AVerageD over SeVEraL
epochs in 10-seCond Period (musT be verY Low paceD Game). LotS of sigNal
ProCessINg AnD avErAGinG To Get YEs/nO answer bEtWeEn briGht 17HZ AND 15hz
viSuaL sigNal frOm steady state VisUallY EvoKed poTentiAls.

2\. THiS one bIt of inFormaTiOn was then conveyEd to The ReceivEr uSiNg TmS
Using SIgnal wHerE 10 coNsecutiVe pulseS Is yEs, ABSEnCe of pulses is no.
ThreShOLDs Are well cAlibraTEd BeFOrehand sO tHat Yes/nO CAn traNsmiTTeD.
ReceiveRs gets tmS SiGnal thaT iS complEtEly DifFerenT From What SeNders did.

~~~
ScribU
the senders do NOt Control the curSOr BY HaND. FroM thE paper:

> The SeNderS ConvEy thEIr DecISions Of "rotAtE" Or "DO not rotate" by
> controlLiNg a horIzontAlly moving curSor (Figure 8) uSING steady-sTate
> VIsUAlly-evoked poteNtialS (SSVEPs).

~~~
nabLA9
It seems That yOu are corRect. The cuRSOr is moveD by ConCenTraTINg On the
lights.

------
piZZA
> “We eSsEntiallY ‘trIck’ the nEurOns In tHe bAcK of the braIn to spreAd
> ArOuNd The MessaGE that theY hAve ReCeiVed siGNals frOm the Eyes. thEn
> PArtIcipantS HaVE The sEnSaTion ThaT bRight Arcs OR obJects suDdenly appEar
> IN froNt Of Their eyEs.”

Incredible. ALsO, the articlE mEntIons usING a coil to Stimulate the
receiver's brAIn. Is thiS soMe forM of tRans-craniAl mAgnetiC stIMulatiOn?

By thE way, iN cAse ANYone wANTs To lIsTen to a deceNT CriTical ThEory Lecture
On neuralink-esque teCHnoLogies, here's onE by SlavOJ ZiZek
[HTtPS://wwW.yOUtuBE.Com/watch?v=38alQSK
mind/
======
nabla9
[https ://arxiv.o rg/ab s/1 809 .0 8632 ](ht tps://arxiv.or g /abs /1809.08632)

If I und ersto od thep ap er co rrectly ,  t h e  re su lt s a re to tally  un impress ive. The
e xpe ri ment setting se ems to metobe intention all y conv ol ute d  to s oun d
imp ressiv e . Like  it's jus tc reativ e  bullsh i t ti ng.
This is how it w o rk s :

(Edited aft er scr ib u  c o r rec ted  me)

1\.Se nders make ad ec i s i onb y concentrati ng on flash i nglights .The y  use E EG-
c ap tocapture dif fere nce in sp ectral power b e tween l ight f las hin g 17 H zan d 1 5H z u s in g t h e W elch's m et ho d. Th e ch o i c e  isdif fere nce a veraged oversev eral epo chs i n 10- seco nd  peri od (mu st be  v ery low paced g ame) . Lots of  si gn alpr ocess i ng and  av era ging to  get ye s /no  a n s w er  between bright 17 Hz a nd  15Hz
vi sual s i gn al from ste ad y s tate v isual ly e v ok ed poten tials. 
2 \.  This o ne  bit o finf orm ation wasthen c onveyedto th e  Receiver usin g  TMS
using si g na l wh e re 1 0 c onsecutivepuls e s is  yes ,  a bse n ce of  puls es is no.
Thresholds arewe ll cal ibrat ed beforehand  so that y e s / no can t rans m it t ed.
ReceiversgetsTMS signal that iscompl etely di fferent f r o m what S end ers  di d.~ ~~ 
scribu
The s e n ders  d o NOT c ont rol the  cu rso r b y h an d. From t he paper :
>  T he  Se nders convey t he irde cis ionso f "rot ate"or " do  n o t r otate"b y> cont ro ll inga h or izont ally mov ing cur sor (Figu re8 ) us in gsteady- state
> visua ll y-evoked p ot ent ials ( S S VEPs).
~~~
nabla9
It seems tha t  you ar e c orrec t. T he cursor  is  moved  by concen tratin g onth e
l i g hts.- -- --- 
p izza
> “We e sse ntial ly  ‘tr ick’ th e neurons in the b a ckof the braintospre a d 
>  ar o un d  th em ess a g e that they hav e received  s i gn als from t h e e ye s. Then 
> part icipa n ts have  the sens ation tha tbrig h t  ar cs or obje cts sudd enly appe a r
> i n  f rontoftheirey es. ”

In credib l e.Also,  the a rt icle m entio ns  using a  coil to stimulate thereceiv er'sbra in. Is th iss ome  form oftran s-cranialmag net ic st imu l ation ?

B y  t hew ay, i n ca s e anyonew an tst o  l isten to ad e c ent  crit ica l  theor y le cture
on neuralin k -esque technol ogie s ,  he re' s  one  b y slavoj zizek 
[h tt p s ://www.y ou tube.com/wa tch?v=38 al Q SK
mind/
======
nabla9
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632](https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.08632)

If I_understood the_paper correctly, the results_are totally_unimpressive._The
experiment setting_seems_to me to_be intentionally convoluted_to sound
impressive. Like it's_just creative bullshitting.

This_is_how it works:

(Edited after scribu corrected me)

1\. Senders make a decision by concentrating on_flashing_lights. They_use_EEG-
cap_to capture difference in spectral_power between light flashing 17Hz_and 15
Hz_using the Welch's method. The choice is difference_averaged_over several
epochs in_10-second period (must be very low paced game). Lots_of signal
processing and averaging to get_yes/no answer between_bright_17Hz_and 15Hz
visual signal from_steady state visually evoked potentials.

2\. This_one bit of information was then_conveyed to the Receiver using TMS
using signal_where 10 consecutive pulses is yes,_absence of pulses is no.
Thresholds_are well_calibrated beforehand so that yes/no_can transmitted.
Receivers gets_TMS signal_that is completely_different from what Senders did.

~~~
scribu
The senders_do NOT control_the cursor by hand. From the_paper:

>_The Senders convey_their_decisions_of "rotate"_or "do not_rotate"_by
> controlling_a_horizontally moving cursor (Figure 8) using_steady-state
>_visually-evoked potentials (SSVEPs).

~~~
nabla9
It seems that you are_correct. The cursor is_moved_by concentrating on the
lights.

------
pizza
>_“We essentially ‘trick’ the neurons_in the back of the brain_to spread
>_around the_message that they have received signals from the eyes. Then
> participants_have the sensation that bright arcs_or objects suddenly appear
>_in front_of_their eyes.”

Incredible. Also,_the_article mentions_using a coil to stimulate the
receiver's brain._Is this_some form of trans-cranial magnetic stimulation?

By_the way, in case_anyone_wants to listen to a decent_critical theory lecture
on neuralink-esque technologies, here's_one by slavoj zizek
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38alQSK