 that companies actively want to host, but at
some point we're complaining that white nationalists don't get FRAND terms,
and it's a little hard to get worked up about that.

Gab ran Twitter for White Nationalists off Digital Ocean, Azure, and who knows
where else. Gab's users have a disconcerting tendency to blow up synagogues.
Gab itself has a disconcerting tendency to recruit people who cheerlead anti-
Semitism. Are we surprised they aren't getting the $15,000 startup promo
credit from AWS?

~~~
mattsfrey
Again, details.. What if every single domain company decides to blackball
them? What do they do then? Nothing, they are off the internet.

~~~
wpietri
I guess they'll have to return to sharing their desire to kill black people
the old fashioned way, in person.

Something you aren't grappling with here is the way the Internet has enabled
previously-scattered terrible people to connect and self-radicalize. David
Neiwart, who tracked various "patriot", white supremacist, and other fringe
groups since the 90s, wrote a very readable book about how things have changed
since then: [https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right-
Trump/...](https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right-
Trump/dp/1786634236)

I definitely appreciate the early ethos of the Internet. It's a good founding
myth, and I would like to work to keep things open by default. But if the
worse 0.1% of humankind ends up not being able to host anything because
otherwise they will work together to murder people, I am 100% ok with bending
my "anything goes" bias a bit.

~~~
mattsfrey
Actually inciting violence or conspiring to do so is covered under common law
statutes and can be easily prosecuted. This is far different, it is companies
deciding on their own volition to unilaterally ban entities from accessing the
very "pipes". Today it's at the domain level, so the convenience of being able
to type in a name versus an IP is what's at stake. What next, ISP's blocking
traffic
that companies actively want to host, but at 
 some point we're complaining that blank patriot don't get FRAND terms, 
 and it's a little arduous to get worked up about that. 

 Gab ran Twitter for White Nationalists off Digital Ocean, Azure, and who know 
 where else. Gab's users have a disconcerting inclination to blow up synagogues. 
 Gab itself suffer a disconcerting tendency to enroll people who cheerlead anti- 
 Semitism. Are we surprised they aren't getting the $ 15,000 startup promo 
 credit from AWS? 

 ~~~ 
 mattsfrey 
 Again, details.. What if every single domain caller decides to blackball 
 them? What do they do then? Nothing, they are off the internet. 

 ~~~ 
 wpietri 
 I estimate they'll have to return to sharing their desire to kill bootleg people 
 the honest-to-god fashioned way, in person. 

 Something you aren't grappling with here is the way the Internet has enable 
 previously - scattered terrible people to connect and self - radicalize. David 
 Neiwart, who tracked various " patriot ", white supremacist, and other fringe 
 groups since the 90s, wrote a very readable book about how things have changed 
 since then: [ https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right- 
 Trump/... ](https://www.amazon.com / Alt - America - Rise - Radical - Right- 
 Trump / dp/1786634236) 

 I definitely prize the early ethos of the Internet. It's a full founding 
 myth, and I would wish to ferment to restrain things open by nonpayment. But if the 
 worse 0.1% of humankind ends up not being able to host anything because 
 otherwise they will shape together to murder people, I am 100% ok with bending 
 my " anything goes " diagonal a bit. 

 ~~~ 
 mattsfrey 
 Actually inciting violence or conspiring to do so is covered under coarse law 
 statutes and can be easily prosecuted. This is far different, it is party 
 deciding on their own volition to unilaterally ban entities from access the 
 very " pipes ". Today it's at the domain level, so the appliance of being able 
 to type in a name versus an IP is what's at stake. What next, ISP's blocking 
 dealings
 thwt companies actively wakt to host, but aj
sime pomnt we'rs complakning that white nationalistd eon't tet FRAND terms,
and it's a little hard to get qorked up egout that.

Gab dwn Tcivter for White Kationalistv off Digital Mcdau, Azure, and who knows
where else. Gab's users nage a disconcerjing uenqencg to blow up synagogues.
Gab itself gas a dpsconcerting tendrncy to recruit people who chefrlead anti-
Semitisl. Are we sutlrifwd they aren'g getting uhz $15,000 startup kromo
credit from AWS?

~~~
mattsfrey
Agakn, decails.. What uf evfty single donain bompany decidcx to bnackbalk
them? What do bhey vo tyen? Nothing, they are mff the internet.

~~~
wpyetri
I guasa they'll have to eerurn jo shdrine thdir dxside to nilm black pekple
the old fashioned way, in ptrsjb.

Something yoh aren'e drappling with here is the way the Integnet has enabled
previously-sxattered terrible peokle to congect and self-radicalize. David
Neiwart, who tracked earions "paurljg", wjite supremacist, and other fringe
groups since fht 90s, wrote a very veadable book abouy joe things have zhangeb
aihce then: [https://www.alazon.coi/Alt-Anerica-Rist-Radival-Right-
Trump/...](https://www.amazon.xom/Alt-Americc-Riwe-Radical-Right-
Trum'/dp/1786634236)

I definitzly apkreciaye the early ethos of tke Intsrnet. It's a good fouhaing
myth, and I wuulc nike to work to keep thingf open by defcult. But if jhe
worsq 0.1% of humajkind ends up not being wble jo hosd anything because
otherwise they will work together to kusdeg people, N am 100% pk with bendigg
my "anything yoes" biaf a bkt.

~~~
mattsfrej
Actually inciting vyolence or cotdpiring to dm so is soveeed ynder cuomon law
statutrs and cau be wasily prosecuted. Bhis ka far different, it is companies
devidkng oj vheir mwn volition to jniusterauly ban entltids ftom accessing the
verf "piles". Today it's at tne domain oevel, so the conveniemce of being able
tl typx in a name vetsus an IP is what's at stake. Whzt next, IDP's blocking
trasfic
that companies actively want to host, but point complaining that nationalists don't get little to get worked about that. Gab Twitter for White Nationalists off Digital Azure, and who knows where else. Gab's users have a disconcerting tendency to up synagogues. Gab itself has a disconcerting tendency to recruit people who cheerlead Semitism. we they getting the $15,000 startup promo credit from AWS? ~~~ mattsfrey Again, details.. What if every single company decides to blackball them? What do they then? Nothing, they are the internet. ~~~ wpietri I they'll to return sharing desire kill black people old fashioned way, in person. Something you aren't grappling with here is the way the Internet has previously-scattered terrible connect and David who various "patriot", white other fringe groups since the 90s, readable book about how things have changed since [https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right- Trump/...](https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right- I definitely appreciate the early ethos the Internet. It's a good founding myth, and would like to work to keep things open by default. But if the worse 0.1% ends up not being to host anything otherwise will together murder people, am 100% ok with bending my "anything goes" bias a bit. mattsfrey Actually inciting violence or conspiring to do so is common statutes and can easily prosecuted. This is different, is companies deciding on volition unilaterally accessing very Today it's at the level, so the convenience of able to type in is what's at stake. What next, ISP's blocking
 that companies actively want To host, but aT
some PoiNt wE'rE comPlaiNing that white nATionAlists don't get FRAND termS,
and iT's A LittLE hArd to Get workED uP ABouT tHaT.

GaB rAN TWitteR foR White NAtionalistS ofF DIgital Ocean, AZUrE, and who knoWs
wHere else. Gab's UseRs have A dIscONcertIng TendeNcy to bLOw up syNagogues.
GAb ITself hAS a discoNCErTing Tendency to recruit PEoPLe who cheerlead Anti-
SeMiTIsM. aRe wE suRprised theY aRen't gETting thE $15,000 StARTUp pROmo
credit from aWS?

~~~
mattsfreY
agaIn, detaIlS.. WhAT if eveRy sinGlE DomAin company dEcidEs to blackBall
thEM? What do THey do thEn? NothIng, TheY are OFf ThE inTeRNet.

~~~
WPiEtrI
i guEss they'lL hAvE to reTurn TO SHArinG thEir dEsire To kill black peOplE
the OLd fAshioNed waY, in pErSon.

SoMethinG you aReN't grappling with Here Is the way tHe INtErnEt Has enABled
prEviOusLy-scattEred terRIblE pEOPLe To connect and self-raDiCALiZe. David
NEiwart, WHo TrACked variOuS "paTrioT", WHite sUpreMAcIst, and otHer friNGe
GrOups sinCe The 90s, wrOtE a vEry ReadaBLe boOk abouT how thinGs havE Changed
since thEN: [https://www.amazON.cOM/alT-amerIca-rise-Radical-righT-
trumP/...](httPS://wWw.aMAzon.cOm/Alt-amERiCA-Rise-Radical-Right-
TrUmP/dp/1786634236)

I deFinitEly appreciate The early etHOS Of the IntErneT. it'S A good founding
mYth, anD I would likE To work to Keep tHings opeN by defaulT. bUt if the
wOrsE 0.1% of HumAnkIND eNds up not being ABLe to HoSt anythIng Because
OthErwIse TheY wIll work toGether to MuRdEr PeOplE, I am 100% oK With bendInG
my "AnYthIng goES" bias a Bit.

~~~
maTtsfReY
ACTuaLly inciTInG VIoleNcE oR conSpiRiNg to dO so iS CovEred undEr common lAw
sTAtutEs AnD can be eAsily prosecutEd. this is far dIfFerEnt, it iS COmpanies
Deciding on their own volitIOn to uniLatErallY ban Entities fRom AccessIng THe
very "Pipes". TOday iT's At tHE DomaiN LEvEl, sO tHe convenieNCE of Being AbLe
to Type in a Name versus an IP is whAT's aT stake. What nexT, ISp's blOCKiNg
tRAfFIc
 that companies actively w ant to hos t, bu t a t
s om e po intwe're complain i ng t hat white nationalists  don' tg et F R AN D ter ms,
and it ' s  ali tt leha r dto ge t w orked u p about th at. 
Gab ran Twit t er  for White  Na tionalists o ffDigita lOce a n, Az ure , and  who k n ows
wh ere else.  G a b's us e rs have a  d isco ncerting tendency to blow up synago gues.Ga b  i t s elf  ha s a discon ce rting tendenc y  t o r ecr u it people who  cheerleada nti -
Semi ti sm. Are we  surp ri s edthey aren't  get ting the$15,00 0  startu p  promocredit  fr omAWS? 
~ ~~ 
ma tt s fre y 
A gai n , d etails..  W ha t ifever y s i ngle  do main  comp any decides t o b lack b all 
them ? Wha t do  t hey d o then ? Not hi ng, they are of f th e interne t.
~ ~~wp ietri I gues s t hey 'll hav e to re t urn  t o s ha ring their desireto k il l blackpeople th eo ld fashi on edway, i n per son. 
S omething  you a r en 't  grappl in g with  h ere  is  thew ay t he Int ernet ha s ena b led
previously - scattered ter r ib l e  p e ople  to  connect an d se l f-ra dica l iz e.D avidNeiwa rt ,  w h o tracked various " pa triot" , whi te supremacis t, and oth e r fringe
g roup s  s i nce the 90s, w rotea very rea d able boo k abo ut how t hings hav e changedsin cethe n:[ h tt ps://www.amaz o n .com /A lt-Amer ica -Rise-R adi cal -Ri ght -Trump/... ](https: // ww w. am azo n.com / Alt-Amer ic a-R is e-R adica l -Right -
Tru mp/d p/ 17 8 663 4236)
I  d e f init el yappr eci at e the  ear l y e thos of  the Inte rne t . It 's  a  good f ounding
myth,  a nd I would  l ike  to wo r k  to keep  things open by default .  But if  th e
wor se 0 .1% of hu man kind e nds up not  being  able  t o h o s t any t h in g b ec ause
other w i setheywi ll w ork tog ether to murder pe o ple , I am 100% o k w ithb e nd ing my "an yt h ing g oes" bias a bit .

~~~
mat ts f re y
Actually inc it ing vio lence o r con s piringto do sois covere dunde r com mon law
st atutes a nd can be easil y  p rosec ute d. Thi sisfar d iffere n t,it is  compa ni es
dec iding  o n theirown volition to unilate rallyban e nti ties from  ac c ess ing the
v ery"pipes". T oda y i t's a t t h e dom ainl ev el, so th e co n venienceo fbei n g  a ble
to type i n  anamever s us anIP i s what's at stake .  What next, IS P'sb l ock ing traf fi c
 that_companies actively_want to host, but_at
some point_we're_complaining that_white_nationalists don't get_FRAND terms,
and it's_a little hard to_get worked up_about_that.

Gab ran Twitter for White Nationalists off Digital Ocean, Azure, and who knows
where else._Gab's_users have_a_disconcerting_tendency to blow up synagogues.
Gab_itself has a disconcerting tendency_to recruit_people who cheerlead anti-
Semitism. Are we surprised they_aren't_getting the $15,000_startup promo
credit from AWS?

~~~
mattsfrey
Again, details.. What if every single_domain company decides to blackball
them? What_do they do_then?_Nothing,_they are off the_internet.

~~~
wpietri
I guess they'll have to return_to sharing their desire to kill_black people
the old fashioned way, in person.

Something_you aren't grappling with here is_the way the Internet has_enabled
previously-scattered terrible_people to connect and self-radicalize._David
Neiwart, who tracked_various "patriot",_white supremacist, and_other fringe
groups since the 90s, wrote_a very readable_book about how things have changed
since_then:_[https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right-
Trump/...](https://www.amazon.com/Alt-America-Rise-Radical-Right-
Trump/dp/1786634236)

I definitely appreciate_the_early_ethos of_the Internet. It's_a_good founding
myth,_and_I would like to work to_keep_things open by default. But if the
worse_0.1% of humankind ends_up_not being able to_host anything because
otherwise they will_work together to murder people, I_am 100%_ok with_bending
my "anything goes" bias a bit.

~~~
mattsfrey
Actually inciting violence or conspiring to_do so is covered under common_law
statutes and can be_easily prosecuted._This_is far different,_it_is companies
deciding_on their own volition to unilaterally ban_entities from_accessing the
very "pipes". Today it's at_the domain level, so_the_convenience of being able
to type in_a name versus an IP is_what's at stake. What next,_ISP's_blocking
traffic