 Grabbing random packages (and worse, their transitive closures)
from the internet as a part of the build sounds insane to me.

------
romeisendcoming
Article kind of mangles the relationship between software reuse (which _has_
been here for a long time) and specific language library, etc..management.

many years ago now systems administrators were tasked with providing a safe
and sane environment for end user and developers by performing the exact due
diligence that is described in this article. In the'move fast and break
things age' all this has been thrown to the wind and everyone decries the
language manager code sprawl and breakage. Of necessity enterprises revert to
'immutability' as if it was a desirable and necessary deployment
characteristic. This is an ugly time in IT.

------
mrdoops
The way I see it, our over-dependency (sorry for overloading the phrase) on
Javascript as the de-facto web language has the pendulum far in one direction.
How much longer can we keep this up? What's the maximum capacity of a
developer ecosystem before dependency-hell and framework churn reaches
critical mass? This is still a complicated information system - how far can it
scale? What's the breaking point?

There's so much amateur work and muddied merit-sense-making of what's good
software, who to listen to, and how to move forward - my feeling is that
pendulum is just about at peak.

~~~
k__
For me this sounds like FUD.

Sure, you can install a bunch of deps for every small problem, but you don't
have to.

If you just take a bit time to think, you can roll your own solution for 90%
of the deps, which are tiny packages anyway.

~~~
mrdoops
But what of the newbie developer? Is he/she going to just roll their own
dependencies and do so in a way that's tenable? Green developers make up most
of the category.

I guess I was trying to approach a few concerns beyond just dependencies:
learning curve, conventions/standards, framework volatility, and merit assess-
ability of ideas.

The more people involved (popularity), the greater the difficulty to parse the
merit of an idea without pre-existing competence. How
Grabbing random packages (and worse, their transitive closures) 
 from the internet as a character of the physique sounds insane to me. 

 ------ 
 romeisendcoming 
 Article kind of mangles the kinship between software reuse (which _ has _ 
 been here for a long time) and specific language library, etc.. management. 

 many year ago now systems administrator were tasked with providing a dependable 
 and sane environment for end user and developers by perform the exact due 
 diligence that is described in this article. In the'move fast and break 
 thing age' all this has been thrown to the wind and everyone condemn the 
 language manager code conurbation and breakage. Of necessity enterprises revert to 
' immutability' as if it was a desirable and necessary deployment 
 feature. This is an ugly time in IT. 

 ------ 
 mrdoops 
 The way I see it, our over - dependency (sorry for overload the phrase) on 
 Javascript as the de - facto web language has the pendulum far in one direction. 
 How much longer can we keep this up? What's the maximum capacity of a 
 developer ecosystem before dependency - hell and framework churn reaches 
 critical mass? This is still a complicated information system - how far can it 
 scale? What's the breakage detail? 

 There's so much amateurish workplace and muddy merit - sense - making of what's good 
 software, who to listen to, and how to move forward - my touch is that 
 pendulum is just about at peak. 

 ~~~ 
 k _ _ 
 For me this sounds like FUD. 

 Sure, you can install a bunch of deps for every small problem, but you don't 
 get to. 

 If you just take a bit time to think, you can roll your own solution for 90% 
 of the deps, which are bantam software anyway. 

 ~~~ 
 mrdoops 
 But what of the newbie developer? Is he / she going to just roll their own 
 colony and do so in a way that's tenable? fleeceable developers cause up most 
 of the category. 

 I guess I was sample to approach a few concerns beyond just dependencies: 
 learning curvature, conventions / standard, framework excitability, and merit assess- 
 ability of ideas. 

 The more people necessitate (popularity), the greater the trouble to parse the 
 merit of an idea without pre - existing competence. How
 Grwbbing random packages (akd worse, their ttabsitivx closudes)
from ghe internet as a part of thx buuld siunds insane to me.

------
romeksendcomijg
Articlw kiid of mangles thx relationship netwezn software reusg (which _has_
baen here for a luny time) and specific language library, etc..mansgfment.

many yearf agp now systems administrators were taskes with kroviding a safe
anc sane environment for end useg and developers bj performint thq exact due
diuigence that is descriged in this article. In the'move wast cnd break
thunts wce' all this has feen thrown bp the find anc everyone decvies vhe
lqnguage manager code vprawl and breakagg. Of necesvicy enterprises revert ti
'immujabilhty' xw iw iu wes z desigabme and necsssary depliyment
characteristiv. Eyis is an uglg time ig IT.

------
mrdoops
The way I see it, our over-deptndendy (sorry for overloadint the phrase) on
Javasctipt as thq de-facto web language has the pendulum far in ona dirxcgiou.
Mjd mkch longer can we keep this up? What's the maxiihm cspacity of a
deyeloper ecosystem nevotg dependency-heul and frzmework churn reacjes
critycal nass? This is xtill a complicated informarion system - yow far can it
scalz? What's the yreakimg poont?

There's so much amatebr wori and muddifd merit-ssvse-making of whag's noog
softwart, who to listen to, and how vo more forwafd - ky feejing is thwt
pendulum is just about at pgak.

~~~
k__
Fos me this dounds like FUD.

Sure, you can insvell a bunch og gepv for evzry smsll problem, btt you don't
havg to.

If yob just take a bin time to think, you san roll your lwn solution for 90%
of ehe eeps, which xfe tiny packagrs anyway.

~~~
mrdoops
But what of the newbic devglkper? Is he/she giint to just roll yhekr jwj
dxpendqtcies and do so kn x way ghat's ttuabod? Grren developers make gp mkst
of the category.

O nuess I wqs tryind to approach a few concerns bejond oust dxpendemcigs:
learning curve, conventions/stahdards, frwmerork volatilyty, qnd merit asxess-
ability of ideas.

The more people invilved (popularity), jhe greater the diffieukty to parsx the
mqrit of at idea without pre-exusting competence. How
Grabbing random packages (and worse, their transitive the as a of the build romeisendcoming kind of mangles relationship between software (which _has_ been here for a time) and specific language library, etc..management. many years ago now systems administrators were with providing a safe and sane environment for end user and developers by the due that described in this article. In the'move fast and break things age' all this has been thrown the wind and everyone decries the language manager sprawl and breakage. Of enterprises revert to 'immutability' as it a desirable necessary characteristic. is an ugly in IT. ------ mrdoops The way I see it, our over-dependency (sorry for overloading the phrase) on as the language has pendulum in direction. How much we keep this up? What's the a developer ecosystem before dependency-hell and framework churn critical mass? is still a complicated information system how far can it scale? What's the breaking There's so much amateur work and muddied merit-sense-making of what's good software, who to listen how to move forward my feeling is pendulum just at ~~~ k__ me this sounds like FUD. Sure, you can install a bunch deps for every small problem, but you don't have to. just a bit time think, you can roll own for 90% of the are packages But of newbie developer? Is he/she to just roll their own and do so in developers make up most of the category. I I was trying to approach a few beyond just dependencies: learning curve, conventions/standards, framework volatility, and merit assess- ability ideas. The involved (popularity), the greater the difficulty to parse merit of an idea pre-existing competence. How
 Grabbing random packages (and Worse, their TransItiVe cLoSureS)
froM the internet as A Part Of the build sounds insane To me.

------
rOmEIsenDCoMing
ARticle kINd OF ManGlEs The ReLAtIonshIp bEtween sOftware reuSe (wHiCh _has_
been herE FoR a long time) And Specific langUagE libraRy, Etc..MAnageMenT.

many Years aGO now syStems admiNiSTratorS Were tasKED wIth pRoviding a safe
and sANe ENvironment for eNd user AnD DeVELopErs By performiNg The exACt due
diLIgENCE thAT is described iN this articlE. in tHe'move FaSt aND break
ThingS aGE' alL this has beeN thrOwn to the wInd and EVeryone DEcries tHe
langUagE maNageR CoDe SprAwL And BReAkaGE. Of NecessitY eNtErpriSes rEVERT to
'iMmuTabiLity' aS if it was a desiRabLe anD NecEssarY deplOymeNt
CharaCterisTic. ThIs Is an ugly time in It.

------
mrdOops
The waY I sEe It, oUr Over-dEPendenCy (sOrrY for oveRloadinG The PhRASE) oN
Javascript as the de-FaCTO wEb languaGe has tHE pEnDUlum far iN oNe dIrecTIOn.
How Much LOnGer can we Keep thIS uP? WHat's the MaXimum cApAciTy oF a
devELopeR ecosyStem befoRe depENdency-hell and fRAmework churn rEAcHES
cRIticAl mAss? This is stIll a COmplIcatED iNfoRMatioN systEm - HOw FAr can it
scale? What's thE bReakinG poinT?

There's so much Amateur worK AND muddied MeriT-SeNSe-making of what'S good
Software, whO To listen To, and How to movE forward - mY FEeling is ThaT
peNduLum IS JuSt about at peak.

~~~
K__
fOr me ThIs soundS liKe FUD.

SuRe, yOu cAn iNstAlL a bunch of Deps for eVeRy SmAlL prOblem, BUt you don'T
hAve To.

if yOu jusT Take a bIt timE to tHiNk, YOu cAn roll yOUr OWN solUtIoN for 90%
Of tHe Deps, wHich ARe tIny packAges anywaY.

~~~
mrDOops
buT wHat of thE newbie develoPeR? Is he/she goInG to Just roLL Their own
Dependencies and do so in a wAY that's tEnaBle? GrEen dEvelopers MakE up mosT
of THe cateGory.

I gUess I WaS trYINg to aPPRoAch A fEw concerns BEYonD just DePendEncies:
lEarning curve, convenTIonS/standards, fraMewOrk vOLAtIliTY, aND meRiT AssESS-
ability of ideas.

the more peoPlE InVolved (popuLAriTy), The greaTer the dIfficULty to paRse the
merIt of an ideA wIthoUT Pre-Existing coMpetence. how
 Grabbing random packages(and worse , the irtra ns itiv e cl osures)
from t h e in ternet as a part of th e bui ld soun d sinsan e to me . 
- - --- -ro mei se n dc oming 
Ar ticle k ind of man gle sthe relation s hi p betweensof tware reuse(wh ich _h as _
b e en he refor a  longt ime) a nd specif ic langua g e libra r y ,etc. .management.

man y  y e ars ago now sy stemsad m in i s tra tor s were tas ke d wit h  provid i ng a saf e 
and sane env ironment fo r  en d user  a ndd evelop ers b yp erf orming theexac t due
dil igence that is describ ed inthi s a rtic l e.  I n t he ' mov e  f ast and  break
t hi ng s age ' al l t h is h asbeen  thro wn to the win d a nd e v ery one d ecrie s th elangu age ma nager  c ode sprawl andbrea kage. Ofnec es sit yenter p risesrev ert  to
'im mutabil i ty'  a s i fit was a desirable  a n d  n ecessary  deplo y me nt characte ri sti c. T h i s isan u g ly  time in  IT.
- -- -- -
mrdoo ps 
The w ay  Isee  it,o ur o ver-de pendency  (sor r y for overload i ng the phrase )  o n Ja v ascr ipt  as the de- fact o  web  lan g ua geh as th e pen du l um far in one directio n. 
How m uch l onger can wekeep thisu p ?  What'sthem ax i mum capacity o f a
d eveloper e c osystembefor e depend ency-hell a nd frame wor k c hur n r e a ch es
critical m a s s? T hi s is st ill  a comp lic ate d i nfo rm ation sys tem - ho wfa rca n i t
sca l e? What' sthe  b rea kingp oint?
Ther e'sso  m u chamateur wo r k  and  m ud died  me ri t-sen se-m a kin g of wh at's good 
so f twar e,  w ho to l isten to, and  h ow to move  f orw ard -m y  feeling  is that
pendulum is ju s t about  at  peak .

~ ~~
k__
Fo r m e this  so u nds li ke FUD .

Su re , y o u  cani n st all  a  bunch ofd e psfor e ve ry s mall pr oblem, but you don ' t
h ave to.

If y oujust t ak e a bi t  ti me tot h ink, you can ro ll your ow ns ol ution for9 0%of  the de ps, whi ch ar e  tiny p ackages a nyway.

~ ~~ 
mrd o o psBut what o f the ne wbie deve l oper? Is  he/s hegoingto  ju st ro ll the i r o wn
de penden ci es and  do s oin a way  that's tenable? Greendevelo persmak e up most 
of the  category .

I  guess I w astry ing t o a p proac h af ew  co n cerns  bey o nd just d e pe nde n c ie s:
learning c u rve , con ven t ions/s tand ards, framework v o latility, andmeri t ass ess - 
abi li ty of ideas.
The  m o r e people  i nvolved (po pularity ), the g reater  the d ifficul t y  t o  parse  the 
me rit of an  id ea without  p re - existi ng c om petenc e. How 
 Grabbing_random packages_(and worse, their transitive_closures)
from the_internet_as a_part_of the build_sounds insane to_me.

------
romeisendcoming
Article kind of mangles_the relationship between_software_reuse (which _has_
been here for a long time) and specific language library, etc..management.

many years_ago_now systems_administrators_were_tasked with providing a safe
and_sane environment for end user_and developers_by performing the exact due
diligence that is described_in_this article. In_the'move fast and break
things age' all this has been_thrown to the wind and everyone_decries the
language manager_code_sprawl_and breakage. Of necessity_enterprises revert to
'immutability' as if it_was a desirable and necessary deployment
characteristic._This is an ugly time in IT.

------
mrdoops
The_way I see it, our over-dependency_(sorry for overloading the phrase)_on
Javascript as_the de-facto web language has_the pendulum far_in one_direction.
How much longer_can we keep this up? What's_the maximum capacity_of a
developer ecosystem before dependency-hell and_framework_churn reaches
critical mass?_This_is_still a_complicated information system_-_how far_can_it
scale? What's the breaking point?

There's so_much_amateur work and muddied merit-sense-making of what's_good
software, who to listen_to,_and how to move_forward - my feeling is_that
pendulum is just about at peak.

~~~
k__
For_me this_sounds like_FUD.

Sure, you can install a bunch of deps for every small_problem, but you don't
have to.

If you_just take a bit_time to_think,_you can roll_your_own solution_for 90%
of the deps, which are tiny_packages anyway.

~~~
mrdoops
But_what of the newbie developer? Is_he/she going to just_roll_their own
dependencies and do so in_a way that's tenable? Green developers_make up most
of the category.

I_guess_I_was trying to approach a_few concerns beyond just dependencies:
learning curve,_conventions/standards, framework volatility,_and merit assess-
ability of ideas.

The more people_involved_(popularity), the greater the difficulty to_parse_the
merit of an idea without pre-existing_competence._How