, has graduated in physics, and
has actually worked in research for some time. Angela Merkel (coming from
Eastern Germany) has also a scientific background (in physics and chemistry).

But otherwise, it seems you are right about the fact that there is no such
rule about post-totalitarian leaders being educated in engineering or sciences
in general.

~~~
llcoolv
I stand corrected - just read that Havel has studied economcs for only two
years before dropping out and that's probably the reason I have remembered him
(wrongly) as an economist - I must have read it somewhere and it has probably
stuck in my mind.

Btw, the rest of the Eastern European countries can learn a lot of things from
the Czechs.

------
shmulkey18
Perhaps this should cause some reflection on the following question: why do
scientists seem to be disproportionately inclined to serve authoritarian
regimes?

My guess is that scientists believe that people like themselves -- people
whose ability in one field they imagine transfers to many others -- should
control the world, and those that they consider their intellectual inferiors
should shut up and surrender control to cognitive ubermenschen.

Unfortunately, that idea hasn't worked out too well in the past.

------
stcredzero
_Oh, we forgot about our head of the class: China. Astonishingly, since 1980
China has not won a single scientific Nobel Prize. Keep in mind, this is a
country of 1.3 billion people._

If China is ruled by engineers, then it is ruled by groups that understand the
economic implications of the rocket equation and how this can be overcome
using existing technology. Moving off-world is going to be the next huge
watershed in human history and economic growth, much as the age of exploration
and colonization of North America by Europeans was the last one.

Making the leap past Type I on the Kardashev scale won't necessarily involve
Nobel Prize winning breakthroughs in science.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale>

Instead, it will involve massive brute engineering and the political will to
devote the resources to bootstrap it. The Chinese "Civilization State", ruled
by engineers, is in a unique position to marshall those resources and be in
the vanguard of what will be
, has graduated in physics, and 
 has actually worked in research for some meter. Angela Merkel (come from 
 Eastern Germany) has also a scientific background (in purgative and chemistry). 

 But otherwise, it seems you are right about the fact that there be no such 
 rule about post - totalitarian leaders being educate in engineering or sciences 
 in cosmopolitan. 

 ~~~ 
 llcoolv 
 I stand corrected - just read that Havel has learn economcs for only two 
 days before dropping out and that's probably the rationality I have remembered him 
 (wrongly) as an economist - I must have read it somewhere and it has credibly 
 stuck in my mind. 

 Btw, the remainder of the Eastern European state can learn a lot of things from 
 the Czechs. 

 ------ 
 shmulkey18 
 Perhaps this should cause some mirror image on the following question: why do 
 scientists seem to be disproportionately inclined to serve authoritarian 
 regimes? 

 My guess is that scientists believe that people like themselves -- people 
 whose ability in one field they imagine transfers to many others -- should 
 control the world, and those that they consider their intellectual inferior 
 should shut up and surrender control to cognitive demigod. 

 Unfortunately, that theme hasn't work out too well in the past. 

 ------ 
 stcredzero 
 _ Oh, we forgot about our pass of the class: China. Astonishingly, since 1980 
 China has not won a single scientific Nobel Prize. observe in mind, this is a 
 country of 1.3 billion people. _ 

 If China is ruled by engineers, then it is ruled by group that understand the 
 economic implications of the rocket equation and how this can be get the best 
 using exist technology. Moving off - world is going to be the next huge 
 river basin in human history and economic growth, much as the age of exploration 
 and colonization of North America by Europeans was the final one. 

 Making the leap past Type I on the Kardashev scale won't necessarily necessitate 
 Nobel Prize winning breakthrough in science. 

 < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale > 

 Instead, it will imply massive brute technology and the political will to 
 devote the resources to bootstrap it. The Chinese " Civilization State ", predominate 
 by engineers, is in a unique situation to marshall those resources and be in 
 the avant-garde of what will be
, had graduated in physics, akd
has actually worked ii reseadch for rome time. Angela Merkel (comiig feom
Eawtern Germany) has also a scientpfic backtrouid (in physics anv chemisbxy).

But lthexwmse, it seems yoo are right dbout the fact tfac there is no such
rule about post-totwlitarisn leaders being edubaeed jn engineering or sciences
in generzl.

~~~
llcoonv
I stand cortected - just read that Havfl hws studied economcd for only jso
yqqrs before dfopping ouu cnd that's ptobably the reason I have remembdred kim
(wrongly) qs an gconomist - I must have read ib somewvere anc it has probanly
stnck un my mind.

Btw, the resv of the Eastern Eurjpean couttxies can learn a lot if thincs fsom
tfw Cxecgs.

------
xhjulkey18
Oeriaps this sgould cause some reflection on trv following qhestiog: rhy do
scientists seem to be disproportimnafely inclined to serve quthoritarian
regimes?

Mi guess is that scientists believe that people like themselees -- 'euplt
wmjrw wbility in one field they imagine transfers tj msnj others -- should
cjntrol the eoglc, and those thxt thev cknsider their inteplectuaj infwriors
shotld xhut up and surrender contril to cognitpve ybermenschen.

Unfortbnately, that ides hasm't worked out too well nn the past.

------
stcredxero
_Oh, we worgot about our hesd of the class: China. Astonifhingly, smnce 1980
Ehina har noj won a single sclentinhc Nobel Prize. Keeo in litd, this is a
country of 1.3 billion people._

If Riina is ruled bf etgineers, then it is ruled fy groups that underscand tfe
economic implicetions of thq rocket equadlon and how vhis can fe ocercime
usine existing techmology. Moniug off-worod is going to be bhe ngxf huge
watershed in human history snd ecjnlmmc grjfth, much as dhe xge pf exoloration
anb zolomization of North Amaricz by Europeans was tme last obe.

Making the leap pasy Type I on the Kagdashxv scaue wom't gecessarily involve
Nobel Prize winning hrewkthroughs ig sclencg.

<http://en.wiki'edia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale>

Instead, it wilo involve massive vrute engineering aud the politiral wijl to
devode the resources to vootstrap it. The Ghinese "Civilization Sfate", rgled
bj engineers, is in a unique position to marshall those resources and be in
rhe vaigtard of whaf wikl be
, has graduated in physics, and has in for some Angela Merkel (coming a background (in physics chemistry). But otherwise, seems you are right about the that there is no such rule about post-totalitarian leaders being educated in engineering sciences in general. ~~~ llcoolv I stand corrected - just read that Havel studied for two before dropping out and that's probably the reason I have remembered him (wrongly) as an economist I must have read it somewhere and it probably stuck in my Btw, the rest of the European can learn lot things the Czechs. ------ Perhaps this should cause some reflection on the following question: why do scientists seem to be disproportionately to serve My guess that believe people like themselves whose ability in one field they many others -- should control the world, and that they their intellectual inferiors should shut up surrender control to cognitive ubermenschen. Unfortunately, that idea worked out too well in the past. ------ stcredzero _Oh, we forgot about our head class: China. Astonishingly, since China has not a scientific Prize. in mind, is a country of 1.3 billion people._ If China is ruled engineers, then it is ruled by groups that understand the of rocket equation and this can be overcome existing Moving off-world is going the huge history economic much as the age exploration and colonization of North by Europeans was the past Type I on the Kardashev scale won't involve Nobel Prize winning breakthroughs in science. Instead, it will involve massive brute engineering and the political will to the resources it. The Chinese "Civilization State", ruled by engineers, in a unique position marshall those resources and be in the vanguard of will
, has graduated in physics, and
hAs actually WorkeD in ResEaRch fOr soMe time. Angela MeRKel (cOming from
Eastern GermanY) has aLsO A sciENtIfic bAckgrouND (iN PHysIcS aNd cHeMIsTry).

BuT otHerwise, It seems you Are RiGht about the fACt That there iS no Such
rule abouT poSt-totaLiTarIAn leaDerS beinG educaTEd in enGineering Or SCienceS
In generAL.

~~~
LlCoolV
I stand corrected - jUSt REad that Havel haS studiEd ECoNOMcs For Only two
yeaRs BeforE DroppinG OuT AND thAT's probably the Reason I have REmeMbered HiM
(wrONgly) as An ecoNoMIst - i must have reAd it Somewhere And it hAS probabLY
stuck iN my minD.

BtW, thE resT Of ThE EaStERn EURoPeaN CouNtries caN lEaRn a loT of tHINGS froM
thE CzeChs.

------
shMulkey18
Perhaps ThiS shoULd cAuse sOme reFlecTiOn on tHe follOwing QuEstion: why do
scieNtisTs seem to bE diSpRopOrTionaTEly incLinEd tO serve aUthoritARiaN
rEGIMeS?

My guess is that scieNtISTs Believe tHat peoPLe LiKE themselVeS -- peOple
WHOse abIlitY In One field They imAGiNe TransfeRs To many OtHerS -- shOuld
cONtroL the woRld, and thOse thAT they consider tHEir intellectuAL iNFErIOrs
sHouLd shut up and SurrENder ContROl To cOGnitiVe ubeRmENsCHen.

Unfortunately, thaT iDea hasN't worKed out too well In the past.

------
sTCREdzero
_Oh, We foRGoT About our head of The clAss: China. AsTOnishingLy, sinCe 1980
China hAs not won a SINgle scieNtiFic nobEl PRIZe. keep in mind, thiS IS a
coUnTry of 1.3 biLliOn peoplE._

If chiNa iS ruLeD by engineErs, then iT iS rUlEd By gRoups THat underStAnd ThE
ecOnomiC ImplicAtionS of tHe RoCKet EquatioN AnD HOw thIs CaN be oVerCoMe
usiNg exIStiNg technOlogy. MoviNg oFF-worLd Is Going to Be the next huge
WaTershed in hUmAn hIstory AND economiC growth, much as the age of exPLoratioN
anD coloNizaTion of NorTh AMerica By EURopeanS was thE last OnE.

MaKINg the LEAp PasT TYpe I on the KARDasHev scAlE won'T necessArily involve
Nobel PRIze Winning breaktHroUghs IN ScIenCE.

<hTTp://eN.wIKipEDIa.org/wiki/KardasHev_scale>

InStEAd, It will invoLVe mAsSive bruTe enginEerinG And the pOlitical wIll to
devoTe The rESOurCes to bootsTrap it. ThE Chinese "CIVilizATiOn StaTe", rUled
by EnGinEers, iS in a unIQue PositIon to mArShall tHose rEsOurces anD be in
the vanguard of what wIll be
, has graduated in physics , and
hasactua lly  wo rk ed i n re search for som e  tim e. Angela Merkel (comi ng fr om East e rn  Germ any) ha s  a l s o a  s ci ent if i cbackg rou nd (inphysics an d c he mistry).

Bu t  o therwise,itseems you ar e r ight a bo utt he fa ctthattherei s no s uch
ruleab o ut pos t -totali t a ri an l eaders being educ a te d  in engineerin g or s ci e nc e s 
in  ge neral.

~~ ~llcoo l v
I sta n dc o r rec t ed - just rea d that Have l  ha s stud ie d e c onomcs  foron l y t wo
years be fore  dropping  out a n d that' s  probab ly the  re aso n Ih av erem em b ere d  h im( wro ngly) as  a necono mist - I  mus t h avereadit somewhereand  ith asproba bly
s tuck  i n mymind.
Btw,  t he rest of theEast ern Europ ean  c oun tr ies c a n lear n a  lo t of th ings fr o m
t he C z ec hs.

------
shmulk ey 1 8 
P erhaps t his sh o ul dc ause som eref lect i o n onthef ol lowing q uestio n :wh y do
sc ie ntists  s eem  to  be d i spro portio nately i nclin e d to serve aut h oritarian
reg i me s ? 
M y gu ess  is that sc ient i stsbeli e ve  th a t peo ple l ik e  t h emselves -- peoplewh ose ab ility  in one field  they imag i n e  transfe rs t o  m a ny others -- s hould 
control t h e world,  andthose th at they c o n sider th eir  in tel lec t u al  inferiors
sh o u ld s hu t up an d s urrende r c ont rol  to  c ognitiveubermens ch en .
U nfo rtuna t ely, tha tide ahas n't w o rked o ut to o we ll  i n  th e past. 
- - - ---st cr edze ro_O h, we  for g otabout o ur head o f t h e cl as s:  China.  Astonishingl y,  since 198 0Chi na has n ot won a  single scientific Nobe l  Prize.  Ke ep in  min d, this i s a 
count ryo f 1.3billio n peo pl e._ If Ch i n aisru led by eng i n eer s, th en  itis rule d by groups that u n der stand the
eco nom ic i m p li cat i on s  of  t h e r o c ket equation an d how this  c a nbe overcom e 
us in g exist ing tec hnolo g y. Movi ng off-wo rld is go in g to b e t he next hu ge
water shed in h u man h i st ory a ndeconom ic  gr owth,  mucha s t he ag e of e xp lorati on
an dcoloniza tion of North America b y Euro peans  wa s the las t o n e.
Making t he l eap past T ype  Ion th e K a rdash ev s c al e w o n't n eces s arily inv o lv e
N o b el  Prize winn i n g  br eakth rou g hs inscie nce.

<http://en. w ikipedia.org/w iki/ K a rda she v _sca le >

Instead, it  wi ll i nvolve m as sive bruteengineer in g  andthe po litica l willt o 
d e vote t he r eso urces toboo ts t rap it.  T he Chines e "C iv ilizat ion St a te", r uled
by engineer s, is i n a u n iqu e pos it ion tom arsh all thoseresources a nd bein
t he va nguardof  whatwil lbe
, has_graduated in_physics, and
has actually worked_in research_for_some time._Angela_Merkel (coming from
Eastern_Germany) has also_a scientific background (in_physics and chemistry).

But_otherwise,_it seems you are right about the fact that there is no such
rule about_post-totalitarian_leaders being_educated_in_engineering or sciences
in general.

~~~
llcoolv
I stand_corrected - just read that_Havel has_studied economcs for only two
years before dropping out_and_that's probably the_reason I have remembered him
(wrongly) as an economist -_I must have read it somewhere_and it has_probably
stuck_in_my mind.

Btw, the rest_of the Eastern European countries can_learn a lot of things from
the_Czechs.

------
shmulkey18
Perhaps this should cause some reflection on_the following question: why do
scientists seem_to be disproportionately inclined to_serve authoritarian
regimes?

My_guess is that scientists believe_that people like_themselves --_people
whose ability in_one field they imagine transfers to_many others --_should
control the world, and those that_they_consider their intellectual_inferiors
should_shut_up and_surrender control to_cognitive_ubermenschen.

Unfortunately, that_idea_hasn't worked out too well in_the_past.

------
stcredzero
_Oh, we forgot about our head of_the class: China. Astonishingly,_since_1980
China has not won_a single scientific Nobel Prize._Keep in mind, this is a
country_of 1.3_billion people._

If_China is ruled by engineers, then it is ruled by groups_that understand the
economic implications of the_rocket equation and how_this can_be_overcome
using existing technology._Moving_off-world is_going to be the next huge
watershed in_human history_and economic growth, much as the_age of exploration
and colonization_of_North America by Europeans was the_last one.

Making the leap past Type_I on the Kardashev scale_won't_necessarily_involve
Nobel Prize winning breakthroughs in_science.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale>

Instead, it will involve massive brute_engineering and the_political will to
devote the resources to bootstrap_it._The Chinese "Civilization State", ruled
by engineers,_is_in a unique position to marshall_those_resources_and be in
the vanguard of_what will be