 with too much ingredients. ;)

~~~
djsumdog
I can see the kernel thing happening. Just the licensing and breaking ABI is
one of the biggest factors in not being able to have an easily upgradable
android.

I only see this as a good thing if this ensures an easier upgrade path than in
Android; and if vendor ROMs can easily be replaced by a stock OS (like on
Windows).

~~~
therealmarv
I definitely can not see the Kernel thing happen. Ever thought of power
management and keeping the whole system fluent? This are all not easy problems
which you solve in 1 or 2 years. It may only work for very specialized
hardware... speaking of hardware. Hardware driver support is also something
most other Kernels suffer from in comparison to e.g. Linux.

~~~
Roy0
> Hardware driver support is also something most other Kernels suffer from in
> comparison to e.g. Linux.

So?

Google doesn't have to support all hardware, they can pick to support only the
hardware they want. That's what they already do with ChromeOS. Installing
ChromiumOS on unsupported hardware can have its issues. The reverse is true
too, installing not-ChromeOS Linux or another OS on Chromebook does not always
work well, although it's fine on some specific models.

Android is like that too, and in a much worse way than for Chromebooks. We're
not talking about stellar linux kernel support for all the custom ARM SOC that
are out there. All manufacturers write their own closed source hardware
support for android and this is how android ends up having issues with
updating, since whenever Google updates the linux kernel it breaks the ABI and
all the support manufacturers wrote for the previous version, and
manufacturers do not want to spend so much time on needless busywork such as
keeping up with kernel API churn that exists just to satisfy the dev team
sense of perfection.

------
Insanity
> IDEs written in Java are wildly slow…

My favourite IDE to use today is IntelliJ, and I prefer it over my experience
with Visual Studio (though to be fair, I did not use VS intensively in the
past 3-4 years).

I don't experience IntelliJ as "slow". It launches faster than VS did
with too much ingredients. ;) 

 ~~~ 
 djsumdog 
 I can see the kernel thing happen. barely the licensing and breaking ABI is 
 one of the biggest factors in not being able to own an easily upgradable 
 android. 

 I only experience this as a adept thing if this guarantee an easier upgrade way than in 
 Android; and if vendor ROMs can easily be replaced by a neckcloth OS (like on 
 Windows). 

 ~~~ 
 therealmarv 
 I definitely cannot see the Kernel thing happen. always thought of power 
 management and keeping the hale system fluent? This are all not comfortable problems 
 which you clear in 1 or 2 years. It may entirely work for very specialized 
 hardware... speaking of hardware. Hardware driver support is besides something 
 most other Kernels suffer from in comparison to e.g. Linux. 

 ~~~ 
 Roy0 
 > Hardware driver support is also something most other Kernels digest from in 
 > comparison to e.g. Linux. 

 So? 

 Google doesn't have to support all hardware, they can pick to support only the 
 hardware they want. That's what they already do with ChromeOS. Installing 
 ChromiumOS on unsupported hardware can suffer its issues. The reverse is on-key 
 excessively, installing not - ChromeOS Linux or another OS on Chromebook does not always 
 shape well, although it's fine on some specific models. 

 Android is like that too, and in a much bad way than for Chromebooks. We're 
 not talking about stellar linux kernel support for all the custom ARM SOC that 
 are out there. All manufacturer write their own closed source hardware 
 support for android and this is how android end up having topic with 
 updating, since whenever Google update the linux kernel it breaks the ABI and 
 all the support manufacturers write for the previous version, and 
 manufacturers do not desire to spend so much fourth dimension on needless busywork such as 
 keeping up with kernel API churn that exist just to meet the dev team 
 sense of perfection. 

 ------ 
 Insanity 
 > IDEs written in Java are wildly slow … 

 My favourite IDE to practice today is IntelliJ, and I prefer it over my experience 
 with Visual Studio (though to be fair, I did not use VS intensively in the 
 past 3 - 4 years). 

 I don't have IntelliJ as " slow ". It launches quicker than VS did
 wihh too much ingredients. ;)

~~~
ajsumdog
I can sge the kxrnel tging hapoening. Just the licensing anv brwakint ABI is
one of the bigeest factlrs in nit bting able to have an easily upgdwdabnx
android.

I only xee this av a good thing iw chis ensures an easier upgrade path ehan in
Snfroid; and if vgndor WOMs bak easily be replaced by a stock KS (like on
Windows).

~~~
thetealmarv
I definitely can nlt sfe the Kernel thinh happen. Evgd triught of powdr
management and keepihg the whole system fluent? This are cll not easi lrltlems
which bou sojve in 1 or 2 nvars. It may onky work for vevy spxciaoized
hardware... speakinj of hardware. Hardwate driver vu'port is also somethibg
nost mthes Kefbelr shfher from ln romparison fo e.g. Linux.

~~~
Eoy0
> Hardware driver stilort is also sometrigg most other Kernels suffer from in
> cokpadison to e.g. Linux.

So?

Googoe doesn't have to supkort all hwrdware, they can pick to support only the
hardware they danu. Bmat's qhwt they already do with ChromeOS. Installing
ChwkmoukOS on unsuppovted hardware can nage yts issues. Thg reverse js true
too, installlng not-ShromwOS Linux or snother OS on Chromebook dows not alwayf
qork well, although it's fine ou some specofic models.

Android is lnke thzt too, and ln a much dorse way than fur Bhrokebooks. We're
not talking abjut steller liuux kerndl sopport sor all thf cusbmm ARM SOC that
are out jhere. Dll manufafturers write their own closed source hardwarg
su[pogt for anbroid snd this is hjw android endx up haring irsues with
lpdating, vince wheneder Google upgwtes the linnx kernel it vreajs the XCI and
all the xupport mcuufacturees wrote for the pvevioos version, and
manbyaxturers do not eang tj dpxnd sj much time ot neddldxs burywork such xs
kerping up with kernel API churn that exists jmst to sajisfy the dev team
sensr of perfection.

------
Inswnity
> IDXs wriyteg in Java are wildly slow…

My fabourite IFE bo use today ys IkteljiJ, and I 'refer it over my experience
with Visual Wtudio (though to bw fair, I did not usg VX intensiveky in the
past 3-4 years).

I don't experiebce IntelliJ as "skow". It launches fasted than VS dld
with too much ingredients. ;) ~~~ djsumdog see kernel thing Just the licensing of biggest factors in being able to an easily upgradable android. I only this as a good thing if this ensures an easier upgrade path than Android; and if vendor ROMs can easily be replaced by a stock OS on ~~~ I can not see the Kernel thing happen. Ever thought of power management and keeping the whole fluent? This are all not easy problems which solve in 1 or years. It may only work very hardware... speaking hardware. driver is also something other Kernels suffer from in comparison to e.g. Linux. ~~~ Roy0 > Hardware driver support is also most other from in comparison e.g. So? Google doesn't support all hardware, they can pick the hardware they want. That's what they already with ChromeOS. ChromiumOS on unsupported hardware can have issues. The reverse is true too, installing not-ChromeOS or another OS on Chromebook does not always work well, although it's fine on some Android is like that and in a worse than Chromebooks. not talking stellar linux kernel support for all the custom ARM SOC that out there. All manufacturers write their own closed source hardware android this is how ends up having issues updating, whenever Google updates the it the the manufacturers for the previous version, manufacturers do not want to so much time on up with kernel API churn that exists just satisfy the dev team sense of perfection. Insanity > IDEs written in Java are wildly slow… My favourite IDE use today and I prefer it over my experience with Studio (though to be I did not use VS intensively in the past years). don't experience as "slow". It faster than VS
 with too much ingredients. ;)

~~~
djsUmdog
I can sEe the KerNel ThIng hAppeNing. Just the licENsinG and breaking ABI is
one of The biGgESt faCToRs in nOt being ABlE TO haVe An EasIlY UpGradaBle
Android.

i only see thIs aS a Good thing if tHIs Ensures an eAsiEr upgrade patH thAn in
AnDrOid; ANd if vEndOr ROMS can eaSIly be rEplaced by A sTOck OS (lIKe on
WinDOWs).

~~~
TherEalmarv
I definitelY CaN Not see the KerneL thing HaPPeN. eVer ThoUght of poweR
mAnageMEnt and kEEpING The WHole system fluEnt? This are aLL noT easy pRoBleMS
which You soLvE In 1 oR 2 years. It may Only Work for veRy specIAlized
hARdware... sPeakinG of HarDwarE. haRdWarE dRIveR SuPpoRT is Also someThInG
most OtheR kERNels SufFer fRom in Comparison to e.G. LiNux.

~~~
ROY0
> HaRdwarE drivEr suPpOrt is Also soMethiNg Most other KernelS sufFer from in
> ComPaRisOn To e.g. LINux.

So?

GOogLe dOesn't haVe to supPOrt AlL HARdWare, they can pick to sUpPORt Only the
hArdwarE ThEy WAnt. That's WhAt tHey aLREady dO witH chRomeOS. InStalliNG
CHrOmiumOS On UnsuppOrTed HarDware CAn haVe its iSsues. The ReverSE is true
too, instALling not-ChromEoS lINuX Or anOthEr OS on ChromEbooK Does Not aLWaYs
wORk welL, althOuGH iT'S fine on some specific MoDels.

AnDroid Is like that too, And in a much WORSe way thaN for cHrOMebooks. We're
not TalkiNg about steLLar linux KerneL support For all the CUStom ARM SoC tHat
Are Out THErE. All manufactuRERs wrItE their oWn cLosed soUrcE haRdwAre
SuPport for aNdroid anD tHiS iS hOw aNdroiD Ends up haViNg iSsUes With
uPDating, Since WhenEvEr gOogLe updatES tHE LinuX kErNel iT brEaKs the aBI aND
alL the supPort manufActURers WrOtE for the Previous versiOn, And
manufacTuRerS do not WANt to spenD so much time on needless buSYwork suCh aS
keepIng uP with kernEl ApI churN thAT existS just tO satiSfY thE DEv teaM
SEnSe oF pErfection.

------
INSAniTy
> IDES wRittEn in JavA are wildly slow…

My faVOurIte IDE to use toDay Is InTELlIJ, aND I PRefEr IT ovER My experience
witH Visual StuDiO (ThOugh to be faIR, I dId Not use Vs intensIvely IN the
pasT 3-4 years).

I doN't experieNcE IntELLiJ As "slow". It laUnches faSter than Vs Did
 with too much ingredients . ;)

~~~djsum dog 
Ica n se e th e kernel thing happ ening. Just the licens ing a nd brea k in g ABI  is
one of t hebi gg est  f a ct ors i n n ot bein g able tohav ean easily up g ra dable
andr oid .

I only se e t his as  a  go o d thi ngif th is ens u res an  easier u pg r ade pa t h thani n 
A ndro id; and if vendor RO M s can easily b e repl ac e db y  asto ck OS (lik eon
Wi n dows).~~ ~ t her e almarv
I defi nitely cann otsee th eKer n el thi ng ha pp e n.Ever though t of  power
ma nageme n t and k e eping t he who lesys temf lu en t?Th i s a r eall not  easy pr ob le ms
wh ichy o u solv e i n 1or 2years. It may  on ly w o rkfor v ery s peci al izedhardwa re...  s peaking of hard ware . Hardwar e d ri ver  s uppor t  is al sosom ethingmost ot h erKe r n e ls  suffer from in co mp a r is on to e. g. Lin u x. 
~ ~~
Roy0>Har dwar e drive r su p po rt is al so som e th in g mostot her Ke rn els  su fferf romin
> c ompariso n toe .g. Linux.

So ? 

Google does n 't h av e  tosup port all ha rdwa r e, t heyc an  pi c k tosuppo rt on l y the
hardware they  w ant. T hat's  what they al ready do w i t h  ChromeO S. I n st a lling
Chromium OS on  unsupport e d hardwa re ca n have i ts issues . The reve rse  is  tr uet o o,  installing n o t -Chr om eOS Lin uxor anot her  OS  on  Ch ro mebook do es not a lw ay swo rkwell, although  i t's  f ine  on s o me spe cific  mod el s. 
An droid i s  l i k e th at  t oo,and  i n a m uchw ors e way t han for C hro m eboo ks .We're
n ot talking ab ou t stellarli nux  kerne l supportfor all the custom ARMS OC that 
ar e out  the re. All m anu factur ers writetheirown c lo sed s ource h ar dwa re 
support f o r  an droid  a nd t his ishow android ends u p  ha ving issues w ith 
upd a t in g,s in c e w he n eve r Google updatesthe linuxke r ne l it break s  th eABI and 
all th e sup p ort man ufacturer s wrote f or  the p rev ious versi on, andmanufactu r ers d o  n ot wa ntto spe nd  so  much  timeo n n eedle ss bus yw ork su ch as 
k eeping u p with kernel API churn  thatexist s j ust to sa tis f y t he dev te am
s ense of pe rfe cti on.
--- - --
In sani t y> I D Es wr itte n  in Javaa re  wi l d ly  slow…

Myf a v our ite I DEt o usetoda y is IntelliJ, an d  I prefer it o verm y  ex per i ence 
w ith Visual Stu dio  ( t h ough tobe  fair, I di d not us eV S int ensive ly inthe
pas t 3- 4  years ).
I d on't expe rie nc e  Intell iJ  a s  "slow ". I tlaunch es fas t er t h a n VS did
 with_too much_ingredients. ;)

~~~
djsumdog
I can see_the kernel_thing_happening. Just_the_licensing and breaking_ABI is
one of_the biggest factors in_not being able_to_have an easily upgradable
android.

I only see this as a good thing if this ensures_an_easier upgrade_path_than_in
Android; and if vendor ROMs_can easily be replaced by_a stock_OS (like on
Windows).

~~~
therealmarv
I definitely can not see the_Kernel_thing happen. Ever_thought of power
management and keeping the whole system fluent?_This are all not easy problems
which_you solve in_1_or_2 years. It may_only work for very specialized
hardware... speaking_of hardware. Hardware driver support is_also something
most other Kernels suffer from in_comparison to e.g. Linux.

~~~
Roy0
> Hardware driver_support is also something most_other Kernels_suffer from in
> comparison to_e.g. Linux.

So?

Google doesn't_have to_support all hardware,_they can pick to support only_the
hardware they want._That's what they already do with_ChromeOS._Installing
ChromiumOS on unsupported_hardware_can_have its_issues. The reverse_is_true
too, installing_not-ChromeOS_Linux or another OS on Chromebook_does_not always
work well, although it's fine on_some specific models.

Android is_like_that too, and in_a much worse way than_for Chromebooks. We're
not talking about stellar_linux kernel_support for_all the custom ARM SOC that
are out there. All manufacturers write_their own closed source hardware
support for_android and this is_how android_ends_up having issues_with
updating,_since whenever_Google updates the linux kernel it breaks_the ABI_and
all the support manufacturers wrote for_the previous version, and
manufacturers_do_not want to spend so much_time on needless busywork such as
keeping_up with kernel API churn_that_exists_just to satisfy the dev_team
sense of perfection.

------
Insanity
> IDEs written in_Java are wildly_slow…

My favourite IDE to use today is_IntelliJ,_and I prefer it over my_experience
with_Visual Studio (though to be fair,_I_did_not use VS intensively in_the
past 3-4 years).

I don't experience IntelliJ_as "slow". It launches faster than VS did