 what to do about it.

Any thoughts on what to do about it? As far as I can tell, nobody has really
figured it out yet, have they?

~~~
jonknee
> Playing devil's advocate a bit, from the AP's perspective, how is Google
> really any different than any other distributor of AP content? It's just
> another company using their content to hang ads off of and generate revenue
> (like all of their other customers), except that Google doesn't pay for it.

Seriously? Google links out to the original copy. You see a headline and at
most a couple sentences. If there's a fulltext copy it is licensed.

~~~
calambrac
Yes, of course they do. But before you click through, there are a bunch of ads
displayed off to the side. And Google just exposes the one newspaper that
they're sending the traffic to, so the one with the best SEO wins while
everyone else goes out of business, directly threatening the AP's bottom line.

So what's the AP going to do? They can restructure their rates so they capture
more from the winners, and/or they can hit the whole ad stack (which Google is
the first layer of, now). I mean, really, what else do you expect them to do?
Just wither and die?

Another way to say it: when the distribution of a pile of money across a group
of companies shifts from normal to power law, and you were getting paid by
that group, you had better figure out how you're going to get more money out
of the winners as the losers start dropping out.

~~~
ja2ke
"the one with the best SEO wins while everyone else goes out of business,
directly threatening the AP's bottom line."

Versus what? The AP is somehow going to benevolently distribute all paid links
equally amongst all of its various print client to help them all reach each
month's traffic goals?

~~~
calambrac
Um, no. What did I say that suggested that? Did you read the article? They're
going to try to change their model so that they get paid more by the companies
that are shifting to the spiky end of the emerging power law distribution, and
capturing revenue from the whole ad stack.

------
what to do about it. 

 Any thoughts on what to do about it? As far as I can tell, nobody has in truth 
 visualize it out yet, have they? 

 ~~~ 
 jonknee 
 > Playing hellion's advocate a bit, from the AP's perspective, how is Google 
 > very any unlike than any other distributor of AP content? It's just 
 > another company use their content to hang ad off of and generate revenue 
 > (like all of their other customers), except that Google doesn't pay for it. 

 Seriously? Google links out to the original transcript. You see a headline and at 
 most a couple sentences. If there's a fulltext copy it is license. 

 ~~~ 
 calambrac 
 Yes, of course they do. But before you click through, there are a bunch of ad 
 displayed off to the english. And Google just exposes the one newspaper that 
 they're sending the dealings to, so the one with the best SEO wins while 
 everyone else goes out of business, directly threaten the AP's bottom line. 

 So what's the AP going to do? They can restructure their rates so they capture 
 more from the winners, and/or they can hit the whole ad stack (which Google is 
 the inaugural layer of, now). I think of, really, what else do you expect them to do? 
 Just shrivel and die? 

 Another way to say it: when the distribution of a pile of money across a group 
 of party shifts from normal to power law, and you were getting paid by 
 that group, you had better figure out how you're move to get more money out 
 of the winners as the losers start dropping out. 

 ~~~ 
 ja2ke 
 " the one with the effective SEO wins while everyone else run low out of business, 
 directly threatening the AP's bottom line. " 

 Versus what? The AP is somehow going to benevolently circulate all paid links 
 equally amongst all of its diverse print client to help them all reach each 
 calendar month's traffic goals? 

 ~~~ 
 calambrac 
 Um, no. What did I say that suggested that? Did you read the article? They're 
 go to try to switch their model so that they get pay more by the companies 
 that are shift to the spiky end of the emerging might law distribution, and 
 capture revenue from the hale ad stack. 

 ------
 whwt to do about it.

Any thomghts on what to do abont it? Aa far as I can tell, nobody has reallb
figyred ut out yet, have they?

~~~
jovknee
> Plajing devio's avvocate a bit, from the AI'f peddpeccite, how is Googlg
> really any different that xnv other distributor of AP content? It'f just
> snlther company osing eheid content to hang ads off of and gsnerate revenue
> (like all of their other customfrs), fxcept that Google doesn't pay for ut.

Seriously? Eoogle links out to thg original copy. You see a headlive anb at
most a xoyplf sentences. Mf thege's a fulltexb copy ht is locensed.

~~~
calambrsc
Yxs, od course they do. But uefore you click thrjugh, thera cre a bunch of ads
displqyed mff do tfw skde. Aid Foogle juat exposes the one neqspaper that
they're xegeing the trafric to, sj the one with the best SEO wins while
enerykne else goes out of buwiness, directly threajening the AP's bottom line.

So what's the AP going to do? They wan rxsgruebmre gyelr rates so they capture
more from the winners, znc/og they can hit thc whole ad stack (wnifh Doogle is
the wirst laysr of, now). I mean, rfally, wrat eose do yot exlect them to do?
Just wither qnd die?

Anothvr wqy to say it: when che distribucion og a pole of money across a gxoup
of companies dhifts frko normal to powef lsw, and you were getting paid by
that gcoup, vou had cettgr figuwe out how you'rc going to get more monei out
ox the winnfrs as the losers start droppinj out.

~~~
ja2ke
"the pna wpth the bzst SEP wins while qveryone else yoes out of bjsiness,
dirvctly thrxatening the AP's bottom lhje."

Versus whav? The AP ys simehiw goine to benevolentky distriybte all pqid links
equally akoneat all of its vcxiius print clieny tu hqli tiem ajn reach each
kontf's gtaffiz goals?

~~~
calancrac
Im, no. What did I say thaf suggested that? Dod you reae the areicle? They're
gping to try to chajge tieir mudel xo jhat they get paid more by the dompanies
hhab are shiftind to the spiky eud of the emerging power law distributioi, and
capturing revenue drom the whole ad sjacl.

------
what to do about it. Any thoughts to about it? far as I figured out yet, have ~~~ jonknee > devil's advocate a bit, from the perspective, how is Google > really any different than any other distributor of content? It's just > another company using their content to hang ads off and revenue (like of their other customers), except that Google doesn't pay for it. Seriously? Google links out to original copy. You see a headline and at a couple sentences. If a fulltext copy it is ~~~ Yes, of they But you click through, are a bunch of ads displayed off to the side. And Google just exposes the one newspaper they're sending to, so one the SEO wins while goes out of business, directly threatening line. So what's the AP going to do? can restructure rates so they capture more from winners, and/or they can hit the whole ad (which Google is the first layer of, now). I mean, really, what else do you to do? Just wither die? Another way say when distribution a pile money across a group of companies shifts from normal to power and you were getting paid by that group, you had out you're going to more money out of winners the losers start dropping ja2ke one SEO while else goes out of directly threatening the AP's bottom Versus what? The AP distribute all paid links equally amongst all of various print client to help them all each month's traffic goals? ~~~ calambrac Um, no. What did I say suggested that? read the article? They're going to try to their model so that get paid more by the companies that are shifting the end of emerging power law and capturing revenue the whole ad
 what to do about it.

Any thoughtS on what to dO abouT it? as fAr As I cAn teLl, nobody has reaLLy
fiGured it out yet, have they?

~~~
jOnkneE
> PLAyinG DeVil's aDvocate A BiT, FRom ThE Ap's pErSPeCtive, How Is GooglE
> really any DifFeRent than any oTHeR distributOr oF AP content? It'S juSt
> anotHeR coMPany uSinG theiR conteNT to hanG ads off of AnD GeneraTE revenuE
> (LIkE all Of their other custoMErS), Except that GoogLe doesN't PAy FOR it.

serIously? GoogLe Links OUt to the ORiGINAl cOPy. You see a headLine and at
moST a cOuple sEnTenCEs. If thEre's a FuLLteXt copy it is lIcenSed.

~~~
calambRac
Yes, OF course THey do. BuT beforE yoU clIck tHRoUgH, thErE Are A BuNch OF adS
displayEd OfF to thE sidE. aND googLe jUst eXposeS the one newspaPer That
THey'Re senDing tHe trAfFic to, So the oNe witH tHe best SEO wins whIle
eVeryone elSe gOeS ouT oF busiNEss, dirEctLy tHreatenIng the Ap'S boTtOM LInE.

So what's the AP going To DO? thEy can resTructuRE tHeIR rates so ThEy cAptuRE
More fRom tHE wInners, anD/or theY CaN hIt the whOlE ad staCk (WhiCh GOogle IS
the First lAyer of, noW). I meaN, Really, what else DO you expect theM To DO?
juST witHer And die?

AnothEr waY To saY it: wHEn The DIstriButioN oF A pILe of money across a groUp
Of compAnies Shifts from norMal to power LAW, And you weRe geTTiNG paid by
that groUp, you Had better fIGure out hOw you'Re going tO get more mONEy out
of tHe wInnErs As tHE LoSers start dropPINg ouT.

~~~
jA2ke
"the oNe wIth the bEst sEO WinS whIlE everyone Else goes OuT oF bUsIneSs,
dirECtly threAtEniNg The aP's boTTom linE."

VersUs whAt? thE aP iS somehoW GoING to bEnEvOlenTly DiStribUte aLL paId links
Equally amOngST all Of ItS variouS print client tO hElp them all ReAch Each
moNTH's traffiC goals?

~~~
calambrac
Um, no. What DId I say tHat SuggeSted That? Did yoU reAd the aRtiCLe? They'Re
goinG to trY tO chANGe theIR MoDel So That they geT PAid More bY tHe coMpanies
That are shifting to tHE spIky end of the emErgIng pOWEr Law DIsTRibUtIOn, aND
Capturing revenuE from the whOlE Ad Stack.

------
 what to do about it.

Any  thoughtson wh attodo  abo ut i t? As far as I cantell, nobody has reall y
fig ur e d it ou t yet , havet he y ? 

~ ~~ 
j onk ne e 
>  Play ing  devil' s advocate  abi t, from theA P' s perspect ive , how is Goo gle 
> rea ll y a n y dif fer ent t han an y  other  distribu to r  of AP content ? It 's j ust
> another com p an y  using their c ontent  t o  h a n g a dsoff of and  g enera t e reven u e> ( lik e  all of their  other cust o mer s), ex ce ptt hat Go ogledo e sn' t pay for i t.
Seriously ? Goog l e links out tothe or igi nal  cop y .Yo u s ee a h e ad lin e  an d at
mos tacoupl e se n t e n ces.  If  the re'sa fulltext co pyit i s  li cense d.

~ ~~
c al ambra c
Yes,  of c ou rse they do. Bu t be fore youcli ck  th ro ugh,t here a rea b unch of  ads
di s pla ye d o ff  to the side. AndGo o g le  just ex posest he  o n e newspa pe r t hatt h ey're  sen d in g the tr affict o,  s o the o ne  withth e b est  SEOw inswhileeveryone  else goes out of bu s iness, direct l yt h re a teni ngthe AP's bo ttom line .

S o  w hat ' s the  AP g oi n gt o do? They can rest ru cturetheir  rates so the y capturem o r e from t he w i nn e rs, and/or the y can  hit the w h ole ad s tack(which G oogle ist h e firstlay erof,  no w ) .I mean, reall y ,  wha telse do  yo u expec t t hem  to  do ?Just with er and d ie ?
A no the r way to say i t:  wh en  th e dis t ributi on of  a p il eo f m oney ac r os s a gr ou pof c omp an ies s hift s  fr om norm al to pow erl aw,an dyou wer e getting pai dby
that gr ou p,you ha d better f igure out how you're go i ng to g etmoremone y out
ofthe  winne rsa s thelosers  star tdro p p ing o u t .
~~ ~ja2ke
"the o newithth e be st SEOwins while everyon e  el se goes out o f b usin e s s, 
di r ec t lyth r eat e n ing the AP's bo ttom line. "Ve rsus what? The  A P is so mehow g oingt o benev olently d istribute  a ll p a i d l inks
equal ly among st all of its v a ri ous p rin t clie nt  to  help  thema llreach  eachmo nth'straff ic  goals?
~~~
calambrac
Um, no.What d id Isay  that sug ges t edthat? Did  you  read theart icl e? Th ey' r e
goi ng t o  t ryt o cha nget heir mode l  s o t h a tthey get pa i d mor e bythe compan iesthat are shifting to the spiky e nd o f the  em e rgin gpower law dist rib ut i o n, and
c ap turing reve nue from  t h e who le adstack. 

----- - 
 what_to do_about it.

Any thoughts on_what to_do_about it?_As_far as I_can tell, nobody_has really
figured it out_yet, have they?

~~~
jonknee
>_Playing_devil's advocate a bit, from the AP's perspective, how is Google
> really any different_than_any other_distributor_of_AP content? It's just
> another_company using their content to_hang ads_off of and generate revenue
> (like all of_their_other customers), except_that Google doesn't pay for it.

Seriously? Google links out_to the original copy. You see_a headline and_at
most_a_couple sentences. If there's_a fulltext copy it is licensed.

~~~
calambrac
Yes,_of course they do. But before_you click through, there are a bunch_of ads
displayed off to the side._And Google just exposes the_one newspaper_that
they're sending the traffic to,_so the one_with the_best SEO wins_while
everyone else goes out of business,_directly threatening the_AP's bottom line.

So what's the AP_going_to do? They_can_restructure_their rates_so they capture
more_from_the winners,_and/or_they can hit the whole ad_stack_(which Google is
the first layer of, now)._I mean, really, what_else_do you expect them_to do?
Just wither and die?

Another_way to say it: when the_distribution of_a pile_of money across a group
of companies shifts from normal to power_law, and you were getting paid_by
that group, you had_better figure_out_how you're going_to_get more_money out
of the winners as the losers_start dropping_out.

~~~
ja2ke
"the one with the best SEO_wins while everyone else_goes_out of business,
directly threatening the AP's_bottom line."

Versus what? The AP is_somehow going to benevolently distribute_all_paid_links
equally amongst all of its_various print client to help them_all reach each
month's_traffic goals?

~~~
calambrac
Um, no. What did I say_that_suggested that? Did you read the_article?_They're
going to try to change their_model_so_that they get paid more_by the companies
that are shifting to_the spiky end of the emerging power law distribution,_and
capturing revenue from_the whole ad stack.

------