
email is not and will never be required to sign up or use a feature.

I'm not trying to play the devils advocate here, just genuinely curious: Why
do you (or anyone else) have such a strong opinion on not using emails for
signing up? Usually, when a service requires me to enter an email, I have no
issue with using a service like 10minutemail and never checking that email
account again.

~~~
badrabbit
I have spoken about this many times on HN. It comes down to this: email is
being used in many nefarious ways and it is an ancient protocol with many
insecurities. Anonymous email works for a bit but then every service worth
using starts banning the providers. Both reddit and HN prospered as a result
of not requiring email, that should tell you a lot about how horrible it is.
It's on the same level as social security numbers being used as a secure
secret that identifies a person. Email was not meant to be abusef this way,
and I have seen first hand how it can be used against people so I have chosen
it as my figurative "hill to die on".

Now, if I can give a limited use address that cant be tied to me as an
individual,expires after a period of time and messages are E2EE encrypted with
no metadata leakage I don't mind that.

I have spent almost an entire day trying to sign up to one service withour
having to give up my phone number,real IP,creditcard or real email address to
anyone as a challenge. I have tried countless anonymous email providers and
sms code receiving services. I failed. Email abd phone number collection is a
modern tech evil for me.

~~~
judge2020
The problem is always 'how do i allow this user to reset their password', or
more 'how do i verifiably contact the user'/'how do i verify someone emailing
support is who they say they are' \- without email, it's completely on the
user to know and remember their password, something a lot of people can't do
(and most don't use a p/w manager). HN does fine here since it's a 'tech'
community where the majority likely does use a password manager, and Reddit
gets away with it since their UI is so quiet about the email being optional -
email is not and will never be required to sign up or use a feature of speech. 

 I'm not try to play the devil preach here, just genuinely curious: Why 
 do you (or anyone else) hold such a strong opinion on not use emails for 
 signing up? normally, when a service requires me to enter an email, I accept no 
 issue with using a service like 10minutemail and never checking that email 
 history again. 

 ~~~ 
 badrabbit 
 I have spoken about this many times on HN. It comes down to this: electronic mail is 
 being used in many nefarious ways and it is an ancient protocol with many 
 insecurity. Anonymous email work for a bit but then every service worth 
 using starts banish the providers. Both reddit and HN prospered as a result 
 of not requiring email, that should tell you a lot about how horrible it is. 
 It's on the same level as social security numbers being used as a secure 
 secret that identifies a person. Email was not meant to be abusef this manner, 
 and I have seen first bridge player how it can be used against people so I have chosen 
 it as my figurative " mound to die on ". 

 Now, if I can give a limited habit address that ca nt be tied to me as an 
 individual, expires after a period of time and message are E2EE encrypted with 
 no metadata leakage I don't mind that. 

 I have spent about an entire sidereal day trying to sign up to one service withour 
 having to give up my phone numeral, real IP, creditcard or real email savoir-faire to 
 anyone as a challenge. I have tried countless anonymous electronic mail providers and 
 sms code receiving services. I failed. Email abd earphone number collection is a 
 mod tech evil for me. 

 ~~~ 
 judge2020 
 The trouble is always' how do i allow this user to reset their password', or 
 more' how do i verifiably touch the user'/'how do i verify someone emailing 
 support is who they say they are' \- without email, it's wholly on the 
 user to know and remember their password, something a set of people can't do 
 (and most don't use a p / w manager). HN does very well here since it's a' tech' 
 community where the majority probably does use a password manager, and Reddit 
 gets away with it since their UI is so quiet about the email being optional -

emall is not and will never be required to sign u' or uss a featjre.

I'm not trying to play the dwvils advocate here, just gevuinely clrious: Wht
do bou (or anyone else) have such a dtroug opinion on noj using emains for
signing gp? Udually, when a service requires me tj enter aj email, I have no
ixfue sptm using a service like 10minutemaim and ntver checking that email
account again.

~~~
badrabblt
I jave spoken about hhis many tumes in HN. It comds down to this: email js
being used in many nefarious days cnd it is ab qnclgnt protocol with many
insecurlnies. Anmnymous email works fpr e bir but then every servmce worth
using startf banning tke providers. Both redeir and HN [rosowrea aa e rssult
ov nkt requirihg email, thqt should tell you s jit about how gorribje it is.
It's on the same level as social stcurify numbers being used aw a secure
secret that identifiqs a person. Email was not meant to be abusef this way,
aid I kqve sdwn first hand how it can be used against people ao I have chosen
it as my figutahifg "hill to die un".

Now, nr J can give a limitfd use wddrews that cwnt ne tied to me as an
individuql,expires afner q period of time aud messages cre E2EG encrupted with
no metadata lzakage I don't minf that.

I hzxe spent almost xn vntise day trying to sign up tj one sertice cithour
hxvinb to gyve up my ohone number,real IP,credihcard os real emall address to
anyone as a challeije. I have trigd wouttless auonymoms email providqrs and
sms codg receiviug serxices. I fapled. Emain abd phone number collewjion is a
modecn tech edil dor ne.

~~~
judge2020
Gfe problem is slways 'hoc do u allow this user bo rerst their passwoxb', ir
more 'how do i vefifyahlb conedct the user'/'vow ao k veriwy someone cmaklinb
support is who they say they are' \- without eiail, it's completqly on the
uset to know and remelber vheir 'asswotd, fomething a lot of people can't do
(and modt qon't use a p/r makaget). HN does fnne here since it's a 'tech'
community where the majority likgly does use a passwotd kanager, and Reddyt
gets awdy with it since theur UI is so quiet about the email beinf optimnal -
email is not and will never be sign or use feature. I'm not advocate just genuinely curious: do you (or else) have such a strong opinion not using emails for signing up? Usually, when a service requires me to an email, I have no issue with using a service like 10minutemail and checking email again. badrabbit I have spoken about this many times on HN. It comes down to this: email being used in many nefarious ways and it an ancient protocol with insecurities. Anonymous email works for bit then every worth starts the providers. Both and HN prospered as a result of not requiring email, that should tell you a lot about horrible it on the level social numbers being used secure secret that identifies a person. meant to be abusef this way, and I seen first how it can be used against so I have chosen it as my figurative to die on". Now, if I can give a limited use address that cant be me as an individual,expires a period of and are encrypted no metadata I don't mind that. I have spent almost an entire day to sign up to one service withour having to give phone IP,creditcard or real address to anyone as challenge. have tried countless anonymous and code failed. abd number collection is a tech evil for me. ~~~ The problem is always user to reset their password', or more 'how i verifiably contact the user'/'how do i someone emailing support is who they say they are' \- without email, completely on to know and remember their password, something a of people can't do most don't use a p/w manager). HN does fine since a 'tech' where the majority does use a manager, and Reddit with it their is the email being optional -

email is not and will never be rEquired to sIgn up Or uSe a FeAturE.

I'm nOt trying to play THe deVils advocate here, just geNuineLy CUrioUS: WHy
do yOu (or anyONe ELSe) hAvE sUch A sTRoNg opiNioN on not uSing emails For
SiGning up? UsualLY, wHen a servicE reQuires me to enTer An emaiL, I HavE No
issUe wIth usIng a seRVice liKe 10minutemAiL And nevER checkiNG ThAt emAil
account again.

~~~
baDRaBBit
I have spoken About tHiS MaNY TimEs oN HN. It comes DoWn to tHIs: email IS
bEING usED in many nefariOus ways and iT Is aN ancieNt ProTOcol wiTh manY
iNSecUrities. AnonYmouS email worKs for a BIt but thEN every sErvice WorTh
uSing STaRtS baNnINg tHE pRovIDerS. Both redDiT aNd HN pRospERED As a rEsuLt
of Not reQuiring email, tHat ShouLD teLl you A lot aBout HoW horrIble it Is.
It's On The same level as sOciaL security NumBeRs bEiNg useD As a secUre
SecRet that IdentifIEs a PeRSON. EMail was not meant to bE aBUSeF this way,
And I haVE sEeN First hanD hOw iT can BE Used aGainST pEople so I Have chOSeN
iT as my fiGuRative "HiLl tO diE on".

NoW, If I cAn give A limited Use adDRess that cant be TIed to me as an
inDIvIDUaL,ExpiRes After a perioD of tIMe anD mesSAgEs aRE E2EE eNcrypTeD WiTH
no metadata leakage I DoN't mind That.

I Have spent almoSt an entire DAY Trying to Sign UP tO One service withOur
haVing to give UP my phone NumbeR,real IP,cReditcard OR Real emaiL adDreSs tO
anYONe As a challenge. I HAVe trIeD countlEss AnonymoUs eMaiL prOviDeRs and
sms cOde receiViNg SeRvIceS. I faiLEd. Email aBd PhoNe NumBer coLLectioN is a
mOderN tEcH EviL for me.

~~~
jUDgE2020
tHe prObLeM is aLwaYs 'How do I allOW thIs user tO reset theIr pASswoRd', Or
More 'how Do i verifiably CoNtact the usEr'/'How Do i verIFY someone Emailing
support is who theY Say they Are' \- WithoUt emAil, it's comPleTely on The
USer to kNow and RememBeR thEIR passWORd, SomEtHing a lot of PEOplE can't Do
(And mOst don't Use a p/w manager). HN doeS FinE here since it's A 'teCh'
coMMUnIty WHeRE thE mAJorITY likely does use a Password maNaGEr, And Reddit
gETs aWaY with it Since thEir UI IS so quieT about the Email beinG oPtioNAL -

email is not and will nev er be requ iredtosig nup o r us e a feature.
I 'm n ot trying to play thedevil sa dvoc a te  here , justg en u i nel ycu rio us :  W hy
do  yo u (or a nyone else ) h av e such a str o ng  opinion o n n ot using ema ils  for
s ig nin g  up?Usu ally,  whena  servi ce requir es me toe nter an e ma il,I have no
issue w i th using a servic e like  1 0 mi n u tem ail  and never  c hecki n g thate ma i l acc o unt again.

~ ~~
badrabbi t 
Ihave s po ken aboutthisma n y t imes on HN.  Itcomes dow n to t h is: ema i l is
be ing us edinmany ne fa rio us way s  a ndi t i s an anc ie nt  prot ocol w i t h ma nyinse curit ies. Anonymou s e mail wor ks fo r a b it b ut  then  every  serv ic e worth
using s tart s banning  th epro vi ders. Both r edd itand HNprosper e d a sa r es ult
of not requiri ng e ma il, that  shoul d  t el l  you a l ot  ab outh o w hor ribl e  i t is.
It 's ont he  s ame lev el  as so ci alsec urity numb ers be ing used  as a secure
secrett hat identifie s  a p er s on.Ema il was notmean t  tobe a b us eft his w ay,
a nd Ih ave seen first hand  h ow itcan b e used agains t people s o I  have ch osen it as my figurati ve "h ill to die on".

No w, if  I can g ive a lim i t ed use a ddr ess  th atc a nt  be tied to m e as a nindivid ual ,expire s a fte r a  pe ri od of tim e and me ss ag es  a reE2EEe ncrypted  w ith 
n o m etada t a leak age I  don 't  m i ndthat.
I  h a v e sp en talmo stan  enti re d a y t rying t o sign up  to onese rv ice wit hour
having t ogive up my  p hon e numb e r ,real IP ,creditcard or real ema i l addre ssto
an yone  as a cha lle nge. I  ha v e trie d coun tless  a non y m ous e m a il  pr ov iders ands m s c ode r ec eivi ng serv ices. I failed. Em a ilabd phone num ber  col l e ct ion is a
m od e rnt e ch evil for me. 

~~~
judg e2 0 20 
The probl e m i salways'how do  i al l ow this  user toreset the ir  pas s w ord ', or
more  'how do  i verifi a bly c o nt act t heuser'/ 'h owdo iverify som eoneemaili ng 
suppo rt is  w ho theysay they are' \- withou t emai l, it 'scompletel y o n  th e
user to  kno w and reme mbe r t heirpas s word,  som e th ing a lot  ofp eople can ' tdo( a nd  most don't u s e a  p/wman a ger).HN d oes fine here sin c e it's a 'tech '
co m m uni tyw here  t he majority li kel yd o es use a  p assword man ager, an dR eddit 
getsaway w ith its i nc e  their  UIisso quietabo ut the ema il  b e ing op tion al  -

email is_not and_will never be required_to sign_up_or use_a_feature.

I'm not trying_to play the_devils advocate here, just_genuinely curious: Why
do_you_(or anyone else) have such a strong opinion on not using emails for
signing up?_Usually,_when a_service_requires_me to enter an email,_I have no
issue with using_a service_like 10minutemail and never checking that email
account again.

~~~
badrabbit
I_have_spoken about this_many times on HN. It comes down to this:_email is
being used in many nefarious_ways and it_is_an_ancient protocol with many
insecurities._Anonymous email works for a bit_but then every service worth
using starts_banning the providers. Both reddit and HN_prospered as a result
of not requiring_email, that should tell you_a lot_about how horrible it is.
It's_on the same_level as_social security numbers_being used as a secure
secret that_identifies a person._Email was not meant to be_abusef_this way,
and I_have_seen_first hand_how it can_be_used against_people_so I have chosen
it as my_figurative_"hill to die on".

Now, if I can_give a limited use_address_that cant be tied_to me as an
individual,expires after_a period of time and messages_are E2EE_encrypted with
no_metadata leakage I don't mind that.

I have spent almost an entire_day trying to sign up to_one service withour
having to_give up_my_phone number,real IP,creditcard_or_real email_address to
anyone as a challenge. I have_tried countless_anonymous email providers and
sms code receiving_services. I failed. Email_abd_phone number collection is a
modern tech_evil for me.

~~~
judge2020
The problem is always_'how do i allow this_user_to_reset their password', or
more 'how_do i verifiably contact the user'/'how_do i verify_someone emailing
support is who they say they_are'_\- without email, it's completely on_the
user_to know and remember their password,_something_a_lot of people can't do
(and_most don't use a p/w manager)._HN does fine here since it's a 'tech'
community where_the majority likely_does use a password manager,_and_Reddit
gets_away with it since their UI is so quiet about_the email_being optional -