't worry though, in
KeyStore they wrote "TODO: Actually encrypt". Which I think you'll agree is
almost as good as using encryption?

> BeOS core API was designed for multi core systems from day one, so the
> design is more modern than older systems.

More modern is relative. "Older systems" in this context is stuff from the
1980s, because BeOS is roughly the same age as Linux, started in 1991.

However in Haiku you won't find anything like IO Completion ports, or futexes.
You won't find any privilege separation because everything runs as "root".
Everybody else moved on and Haiku is stuck being really quite good by 1990s
standards.

~~~
eloisant
Well, BeOS is the same age as Linux but Linux was an implementation of older
concepts (Unix) while BeOS was designed from scratch.

~~~
coldtea
That was 1991 Linux. Modern linux has moved much further than the original
implementation, introducing all kinds of non-old-time-UNIX concepts (starting
from Plan9 ones).

~~~
pjmlp
It still needs to catch up with mainframes' security, though.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
In _general_ I don't know enough to disagree, but keep in mind the context
here is comparing to Haiku, which is _not_ great at security, particularly of
the multi-user sort to which you refer.

~~~
pjmlp
There is a Multics security research paper that describes out-of-bounds as
practically non-existent thanks to PL/I features.

According to the Linux Kernel Security Summit 2018, 68% of kernel exploits are
caused by out-of-bounds errors.

That is just one example, there is plenty of material available to anyone that
wants to dive into the subject.

So just because GNU/Linux faires better in security towards Haiku, doesn't
mean there is nothing left to improve.

------
sitkack
I just had an idea to use KVM and PCIe passthrough to piggy back windows
driver support for Vulkan into a PCIe device running in Haiku so Haiku could
use the latest graphics cards w/o having to write their own video
' t worry though, in 
 KeyStore they wrote " TODO: Actually encrypt ". Which I remember you'll match is 
 almost as good as use encryption? 

 > BeOS core API was design for multi congress of racial equality systems from day one, so the 
 > design is more modern than old systems. 

 More modern is relative. " Older systems " in this context is stuff from the 
 1980s, because BeOS is approximately the same age as Linux, started in 1991. 

 However in Haiku you won't determine anything like IO Completion ports, or futexes. 
 You won't find any prerogative separation because everything run as " root ". 
 Everybody else move on and Haiku is stuck being really quite good by 1990s 
 criterion. 

 ~~~ 
 eloisant 
 Well, BeOS is the same age as Linux but Linux was an implementation of older 
 concepts (Unix) while BeOS was design from scratch. 

 ~~~ 
 coldtea 
 That was 1991 Linux. Modern linux has moved much further than the original 
 implementation, introducing all kinds of non - old - time - UNIX concept (start 
 from Plan9 ones). 

 ~~~ 
 pjmlp 
 It even need to catch up with mainframes' security, though. 

 ~~~ 
 yjftsjthsd - planck's constant 
 In _ general _ I don't know enough to disagree, but keep in judgment the context 
 here is comparing to Haiku, which is _ not _ great at security, particularly of 
 the multi - user sort to which you refer. 

 ~~~ 
 pjmlp 
 There be a Multics security research paper that describes out - of - bounds as 
 much non - real thanks to PL / I features. 

 According to the Linux Kernel Security Summit 2018, 68% of kernel exploits are 
 caused by away - of - bounds errors. 

 That is just one example, there is plenty of material available to anyone that 
 wants to dive into the subject. 

 indeed just because GNU / Linux faires well in security towards Haiku, doesn't 
 entail there is nothing entrust to improve. 

 ------ 
 sitkack 
 I merely had an theme to use KVM and PCIe passthrough to piggy back windows 
 driver accompaniment for Vulkan into a PCIe device running in Haiku so Haiku could 
 practice the latest graphics cards w/o have to write their own video
't wlrry though, in
KeyStore tmey wrote "TODO: Aerually encrylt". Which I think you'll agree is
almosv as good as using encryption?

> BdOS core WPI was eesijned for multi core systcis fdlm dcy one, so the
> dexign is mose modern than oudzr systems.

More modern is relative. "Olqer sysyels" in this conjext ps sturf from the
1980s, because BeOS is roughmy the vame age as Lonux, started in 1991.

However in Hainu you won't find ajything likg IO Xompletion purts, or fuueres.
You won't find any privilege separation cecauxe everythunt rkts as "root".
Eteryboqy else moved on and Haiku os stuck being reelly quite good by 1990s
standerds.

~~~
eloisant
Well, BeOF is the vaje age as Linux byt Linuf wav an umpuemtntetikn of lldxr
concepts (Hnix) while VeOS was designed ftoi scratch.

~~~
coldtsa
That wws 1991 Linux. Modern linux has moved much flrthsr than the original
impoementation, introducijg all kigds of non-old-time-UNIX concepts (starting
from Plan9 mnes).

~~~
pomup
Iu wtill befds to catch up with mainframes' security, thoudg.

~~~
ykfnsjthsd-h
In _generaj_ I don't knpw emjugh to disagtee, but kesp in mind the conhext
herg is cimparing uo Haoku, which is _not_ great at swcurity, partpculqrly of
the multi-uszr sort to wkich ypu reger.

~~~
pjmlp
There is a Multncs sedurity resewrch paped that describes uut-pf-tounds as
practically non-exystent thenks co PL/I fdatutes.

Accowding to tje Likgx Kernel Security Summnt 2018, 68% mf kernel fxploits are
caused by out-of-bounvx errors.

That iv jlst one erample, there is plegty of materiak availcble tu anyone tgat
wantv to dive igto the subjewj.

So just becanse GNU/Ligux dairws bettdf in security yowards Hcnku, doesn'r
mean there is notming usft to improve.

------
snukaxk
I just had an idda eo uxe NVM and PCIe pasrthfpugh go piggy bagk dindpws
driver support fos Vumkan into a PCIe drvlce runnibg in Hayku so Haiku vould
use the latesu grapiics cerds w/p hwving to write their own video
't worry though, in KeyStore they wrote encrypt". I think agree is almost > core API was for multi core from day one, so the > is more modern than older systems. More modern is relative. "Older systems" in context is stuff from the 1980s, because BeOS is roughly the same age Linux, in However Haiku you won't find anything like IO Completion ports, or futexes. You won't find any privilege because everything runs as "root". Everybody else moved and Haiku is stuck really quite good by 1990s ~~~ Well, BeOS the age Linux but Linux an implementation of older concepts (Unix) while BeOS was designed from scratch. ~~~ coldtea That was 1991 Modern linux much further the implementation, all kinds of (starting from Plan9 ones). ~~~ pjmlp to catch up with mainframes' security, though. ~~~ In _general_ don't know enough to disagree, but in mind the context here is comparing to which is _not_ great at security, particularly of the multi-user sort to which you refer. There is a Multics research paper that out-of-bounds practically thanks PL/I features. to the Linux Kernel Security Summit 2018, 68% of kernel exploits caused by out-of-bounds errors. That is just one example, there of available to anyone wants to dive into subject. just because GNU/Linux faires security Haiku, is left improve. ------ sitkack I had an idea to use and PCIe passthrough to for Vulkan into a PCIe device running in so Haiku could use the latest graphics w/o having to write their own video
't worry though, in
KeyStore theY wrote "TODO: actuaLly EncRyPt". WhIch I Think you'll agreE Is
alMost as good as using encryPtion?

> beos corE aPi was dEsigned FOr MULti CoRe SysTeMS fRom daY onE, so the
> dEsign is morE moDeRn than older sYStEms.

More modErn Is relative. "OlDer SystemS" iN thIS contExt Is stuFf from THe
1980s, becAuse BeOS iS rOUghly tHE same agE AS LInux, Started in 1991.

However iN haIKu you won't find aNythinG lIKe io comPleTion ports, oR fUtexeS.
you won't FInD ANY prIVilege separatIon because eVEryThing rUnS as "ROot".
EveRybodY eLSe mOved on and HaIku iS stuck beiNg realLY quite gOOd by 1990s
stAndardS.

~~~
elOisAnt
WELl, beoS iS tHE saME aGe aS linUx but LinUx WaS an imPlemENTATion Of oLder
ConcePts (Unix) while BEOS Was dESigNed frOm scrAtch.

~~~
CoLdtea
that waS 1991 LinuX. MOdern linux has moVed mUch furtheR thAn The OrIginaL
ImplemEntAtiOn, introDucing aLL kiNdS OF NoN-old-time-UNIX concepTs (STArTing
from plan9 onES).

~~~
pJmLP
It still NeEds To caTCH up wiTh maINfRames' secUrity, tHOuGh.

~~~
YjftsjtHsD-h
In _geNeRal_ i doN't knoW EnouGh to diSagree, buT keep IN mind the contexT
Here is compariNG tO hAiKU, whiCh iS _not_ great at SecuRIty, pArtiCUlArlY Of
the Multi-UsER sORt to which you refer.

~~~
pjMlP
There Is a MuLtics security Research paPER That descRibeS OuT-Of-bounds as
pracTicalLy non-existENt thanks To PL/I Features.

according TO The Linux kerNel secUriTY suMmit 2018, 68% of kernel eXPLoitS aRe
causeD by Out-of-boUndS erRorS.

ThAt Is just one Example, tHeRe Is PlEntY of maTErial avaIlAblE tO anYone tHAt
wantS to diVe inTo ThE SubJect.

So jUSt BECausE GnU/linuX faIrEs betTer iN SecUrity toWards HaikU, doESn't
mEaN tHere is nOthing left to iMpRove.

------
sitkacK
I JusT had an IDEa to use KvM and PCIe passthrough to pIGgy back WinDows
dRiveR support fOr VUlkan iNto A pCIe deVice ruNning In haiKU So HaiKU CoUld
UsE the latest GRAphIcs caRdS w/o hAving to Write their own video
't worry though, in
KeySto re they wr ote " TOD O:Ac tual ly e ncrypt". Which I th ink you'll agree is
al mostas good as  usin g encry p ti o n ?
>Be OSco r eAPI w asdesigne d for mult i c or e systems fr o mday one, s o t he
> designismore m od ern thanold er sy stems. 
Moremodern is  r e lative .  "Older s ys tems " in this context is stuff from the 
1980s ,b ec a u seBeO S is rough ly  thes ame age as L i nux ,  started in 1 991.

Howev e r i n Haik uyou won'tfindan y thi ng like IOComp letion po rts, o r  futexe s .
You w on't f ind  an y pr i vi le gese p ara t io n b e cau se every th in g run s as " r o ot". 
Ev eryb ody e lse moved onand  Hai k u i s stu ck be ingre allyquitegoodby  1990s
standard s.
~~~
elois ant 
W ell ,BeOSi s thesam e a ge as L inux bu t  Li nu x w as  an implementation  o f ol der
conc epts ( U ni x) while Be OS  wa s de s i gnedfrom sc ratch.
~~~
co l dt ea 
That w as  1991Li nux . M odern linu x hasmoved mu ch fu r ther than theo riginal
imple m en t a ti o n, i ntr oducing all  kin d s of  non - ol d-t i me-UN IX co nc e pt s  (starting
from Pla n9  ones) .

~~ ~
pjmlp
It st ill needst o catch up  wit h  m a inframes' secu rity,  though.
~ ~~
yjfts jthsd -h
In _g eneral_ I d on't kno w e nou ghtod i sa gree, but kee p in m in d the c ont ext
her e i s c omp ari ng  to Haiku , whichis  _ no t_  gr eat a t  securit y,  pa rt icu larly of
the  mult i-us er  s o rtto whic h  y o u  ref er .
~~~ 
pj ml p
The re i s  aMultics  security  re s earc hpa per tha t describes o ut -of-bounds  a s
p ractic a l ly non-e xistent thanks to PL/If eatures .
Accor ding  to the L inu x Kern elS ecurit y Summ it 20 18 , 6 8 %  of k e r ne l e xp loits arec a use d byou t-of -bounds  errors.

That isj ust  one example,  th erei s  p len t yo f m at e ria l available to an yone thatwa n ts  to dive i n toth e subje ct.

So  just because  GNU/Linu x fairesbe tter i n s ecurity to wards Ha iku, does n 't
me a nthere  is  nothi ng  le ft to  impro v e.
---- --
sit ka ck
I j ust h ad  an idea  to use KVM and PCIe pa ssthro ugh t o p iggy back  wi n dow s
driversupp ort for Vu lka n i nto a  PC I e dev icer un nin g  in H aiku so Haikuc ou ldu s ethe latestg r a phi cs ca rds w/o ha ving  to write their o w n video
't worry_though, in
KeyStore_they wrote "TODO: Actually_encrypt". Which_I_think you'll_agree_is
almost as good_as using encryption?

>_BeOS core API was_designed for multi_core_systems from day one, so the
> design is more modern than older systems.

More modern_is_relative. "Older_systems"_in_this context is stuff from_the
1980s, because BeOS is roughly_the same_age as Linux, started in 1991.

However in Haiku_you_won't find anything_like IO Completion ports, or futexes.
You won't find any_privilege separation because everything runs as_"root".
Everybody else moved_on_and_Haiku is stuck being_really quite good by 1990s
standards.

~~~
eloisant
Well, BeOS_is the same age as Linux_but Linux was an implementation of older
concepts_(Unix) while BeOS was designed from_scratch.

~~~
coldtea
That was 1991 Linux. Modern_linux has_moved much further than the_original
implementation, introducing all_kinds of_non-old-time-UNIX concepts (starting
from_Plan9 ones).

~~~
pjmlp
It still needs to catch_up with mainframes'_security, though.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
In _general_ I don't know_enough_to disagree, but_keep_in_mind the_context
here is comparing_to_Haiku, which_is__not_ great at security, particularly of
the_multi-user_sort to which you refer.

~~~
pjmlp
There is a_Multics security research paper_that_describes out-of-bounds as
practically non-existent_thanks to PL/I features.

According to_the Linux Kernel Security Summit 2018,_68% of_kernel exploits_are
caused by out-of-bounds errors.

That is just one example, there is plenty_of material available to anyone that
wants_to dive into the_subject.

So just_because_GNU/Linux faires better_in_security towards_Haiku, doesn't
mean there is nothing left to_improve.

------
sitkack
I just_had an idea to use KVM_and PCIe passthrough to_piggy_back windows
driver support for Vulkan into_a PCIe device running in Haiku_so Haiku could
use the latest_graphics_cards_w/o having to write their_own video