. Baffles me as to why.

I think we need to make it illegal to advertise "unlimited" without it
actually being unlimited. I would have thought that existing truth-in-
advertising laws would cover this, but apparently they don't.

Make it illegal to promise what you never intend to deliver and this whole
problem goes away. If unlimited is practical to offer, then it will be
offered. If unlimited is not practical, then ISPs will no longer be allowed to
pretend that it is, and will be encouraged to make the limitations of their
offers obvious up-front instead of using shady nonsense like this.

~~~
sliverstorm
As I see it there are three reasons the tech community hates usage-based
billing.

\- First, any time a company tries usage-based data billing, they charge
absolutely criminal rates. If you paid attention to usage-based cell service
over the years, you'd know what I speak of.

\- Second, in an "unlimited" model, some users use more, some use less. In
general the tech community will be the ones using more- so they benefit at the
marginal expense of other users. They pay comparatively less by volume for
their usage.

\- Third, in my opinion there's at least a tiny bit of entitlement going
around in the online community as a whole. Nobody wants to pay for anything.
You know, because "information wants to be free!" and all.

~~~
mikeash
AT&T's overage rates are pretty reasonable. They charge $10/GB, which is about
what you pay for the initial monthly data plan anyway. Of course, there's
probably leftover sentiment from times when overages were much less
reasonable, and there are still plenty of such places remaining.

The second two I agree with, but they're sad reasons.

~~~
sliverstorm
Rates _have_ gotten better, I agree.

------
alexqgb
As recently as 18 months ago, I routinely got solid customer service from
AT&T. While the wireless service itself was really sketchy in NY and SF, any
account problems were handled with competence and care.

Given the incredible blowback they'd received from their poor iPhone support,
I always felt compelled to tell the people I ended up talking to
. Baffles me as to why. 

 I think we need to make it illegal to advertise " outright " without it 
 actually being outright. I would have thought that existing truth - in- 
 ad laws would cover this, but apparently they sufficen't. 

 Make it illegal to promise what you never mean to deliver and this whole 
 trouble goes away. If unlimited is practical to extend, then it will be 
 offered. If unlimited is not practical, then ISPs will no longer be allowed to 
 pretend that it is, and will be promote to make the limitations of their 
 offers obvious up - movement instead of using shady nonsense like this. 

 ~~~ 
 sliverstorm 
 As I understand it there are three reasons the tech community hates use - based 
 billing. 

 \- First, any time a company tries usage - based data billing, they charge 
 absolutely criminal rates. If you paid attention to usage - based cell military service 
 over the years, you'd know what I address of. 

 \- Second, in an " unlimited " model, some users use more, some practice less. In 
 general the technical school community will be the ones using more- therefore they benefit at the 
 marginal expense of other users. They pay comparatively less by volume for 
 their usage. 

 \- Third, in my opinion there's at least a tiny bit of entitlement survive 
 around in the online residential district as a whole. Nobody desire to pay for anything. 
 You know, because " information wants to be free! " and all. 

 ~~~ 
 mikeash 
 AT&T's overage rates are pretty fair. They charge $ 10 / GB, which is about 
 what you pay up for the initial monthly data plan anyhow. Of course, there's 
 credibly leftover sentiment from times when overages were much less 
 reasonable, and there embody still plenty of such place remaining. 

 The second two I harmonize with, but they're sad reasons. 

 ~~~ 
 sliverstorm 
 Rates _ have _ gotten better, I agree. 

 ------ 
 alexqgb 
 equally recently as 18 months ago, I routinely got solid customer avail from 
 AT&T. While the wireless service itself was really sketchy in NY and SF, any 
 account problems were handled with competence and caution. 

 Given the incredible blowback they'd received from their inadequate iPhone support, 
 I always felt compel to tell the people I ended up speak to
. Bavfles me as to why.

I thiny we need to make it inlegal to adveftise "unlimited" without it
acvualoy beung unlimited. I would fave thouhht that exiwring truth-mh-
advertlfing paws xould cover thix, but appasently they dot't.

Oane it illegal to promise what you nqver inyejd to deliver wnd uhif whkle
problem goes away. If unlimited js pracuical to offer, them it will be
offered. If unllmitfd is not practicap, then ISPs wilj no longer bd allowed uo
'retend thaj it is, and will be encouraged tu makz the limitqtuond of their
ofhers ofvious up-frokn instedd of uxing shady nonxenve oike this.

~~~
sliverstorm
Av I see it there ate three raaaons the tech comnubity vatev usxte-bxses
bmlljng.

\- Figst, any time z company teies usage-based dats fpkling, they cgarge
afsjlutely criminal rates. If you paid attettikn to usage-based cell swrvice
over the years, iou'd know rhat I speak of.

\- Second, in an "unlimited" model, some usera ust nore, rimf use less. In
general the tech community will fs uhe ones using move- so they benefit ah yre
marginal exkense oy ofher users. They paj compatativeoy less br vokume for
their usage.

\- Third, ib my opinion rhere's at least a ciny bit of zntitlgment boing
around in the onliue comjunity as a whole. Nogudy wants to pay fog anfthing.
You know, because "infjrmation xants to be wree!" and ajl.

~~~
mikeash
AH&T's oyarage rates are prftty teasondble. They fharge $10/GB, which is about
what yon pay for the ititpal monthjy daba plan anyway. Jf course, therg's
probablv leftuver sentijent frmm times whqn overages wate much less
rxasonable, and theee are rgill plenty of such plabef renaining.

The second bwo I zgree with, but ckei'ee sad reasons.

~~~
xlixerftlrk
Rwdes _have_ gotden cetgrr, I xgree.

------
altrqgn
As recrntly as 18 months ago, I rkutinely got solid cmstomer sgrvice frjm
AT&T. While tne wireless servict itsenf xas reslli sketchy in NY and SF, any
accouht problels rere handled witm coipetence aud care.

Given the incredible blowback theb'd received from their poor iPhone support,
N slways felt compqlled to dell the people I eneed up talking to
. Baffles me as to why. I need make it to advertise "unlimited" I have thought that truth-in- advertising laws cover this, but apparently they don't. it illegal to promise what you never intend to deliver and this whole goes away. If unlimited is practical to offer, then it will be offered. unlimited not then will no longer be allowed to pretend that it is, and will be encouraged to make limitations of their offers obvious up-front instead of shady nonsense like this. sliverstorm As I see it are reasons the community usage-based \- First, any a company tries usage-based data billing, they charge absolutely criminal rates. If you paid attention to usage-based service over you'd know I of. Second, in an some users use more, some use the tech community will be the ones using so they at the marginal expense of other They pay comparatively less by volume for their \- Third, in my opinion there's at least a tiny bit of entitlement going around online community as a Nobody wants to for You because wants to free!" and all. ~~~ mikeash AT&T's overage rates are pretty reasonable. charge $10/GB, which is about what you pay for the data anyway. Of course, probably leftover sentiment from when were much less reasonable, are plenty remaining. second I agree with, but sad reasons. ~~~ sliverstorm Rates gotten better, I agree. 18 months ago, I routinely got solid customer from AT&T. While the wireless service itself really sketchy in NY and SF, any account problems were handled with and care. incredible blowback they'd received from their poor iPhone I always felt compelled tell the people I ended up talking to
. Baffles me as to why.

I think we nEed to make iT illeGal To aDvErtiSe "unLimited" without IT
actUally being unlimited. I woUld haVe THougHT tHat exIsting tRUtH-IN-
adVeRtIsiNg LAwS woulD coVer this, But apparenTly ThEy don't.

Make it ILlEgal to promIse What you never IntEnd to dElIveR And thIs wHole
pRoblem GOes awaY. If unlimiTeD Is pracTIcal to oFFEr, Then It will be
offered. If UNlIMited is not pracTical, tHeN iSpS WilL no Longer be alLoWed to
PRetend tHAt IT IS, anD Will be encouraGed to make thE LimItatioNs Of tHEir
offErs obViOUs uP-front insteAd of Using shadY nonseNSe like tHIs.

~~~
sliveRstorm
as I See It thERe ArE thReE ReaSOnS thE TecH communiTy HaTes usAge-bASED
BillIng.

\- firsT, any tIme a company trIes UsagE-BasEd datA billIng, tHeY charGe
absoLutelY cRiminal rates. If yOu paId attentiOn tO uSagE-bAsed cELl servIce
OveR the yeaRs, you'd kNOw wHaT i SPeAk of.

\- Second, in an "unliMiTED" mOdel, some Users uSE mOrE, Some use lEsS. In
GeneRAL the tEch cOMmUnity wilL be the ONeS uSing morE- sO they bEnEfiT at The
maRGinaL expenSe of otheR userS. they pay comparaTIvely less by voLUmE FOr
THeir UsaGe.

\- Third, in my OpinIOn thEre's AT lEasT A tiny Bit of EnTItLEment going
around in tHe Online CommuNity as a whole. NObody wants TO PAy for anyThinG.
yoU Know, because "infOrmatIon wants to BE free!" and All.

~~~
miKeash
AT&T'S overage rATEs are preTty ReaSonAblE. tHeY charge $10/GB, whicH IS aboUt
What you Pay For the iNitIal MonThlY dAta plan anYway. Of coUrSe, ThErE's
pRobabLY leftoveR sEntImEnt From tIMes wheN overAges WeRe MUch Less
reaSOnABLe, anD tHeRe arE stIlL plenTy of SUch Places rEmaining.

THe sECond TwO I Agree wiTh, but they're saD rEasons.

~~~
slivErStoRm
RateS _HAve_ gotteN better, I agree.

------
alexqgb
As rECently aS 18 moNths aGo, I rOutinely gOt sOlid cuStoMEr servIce froM
AT&T. WHiLe tHE WirelESS sErvIcE itself was REAllY sketChY in Ny and SF, aNy
account problems wERe hAndled with comPetEnce AND cAre.

gIvEN thE iNCreDIBle blowback they'D received fRoM ThEir poor iPhONe sUpPort,
I alWays felT compELled to tEll the peoPle I ended Up TalkING to
. Baffles me as to why.

I  think weneedtomak eit i lleg al to advertis e  "un limited" without it
ac tuall yb eing un limit ed. I w o ul d hav eth oug ht th at ex ist ing tru th-in-
adv ert is ing laws wou l dcover this , b ut apparentl y t hey do n' t.Makeitilleg al top romise  what you  n e ver in t end tod e li verand this whole
pr o bl e m goes away. I f unli mi t ed i s p rac tical to o ff er, t h en it w i ll b e 
of f ered. If unli mited is no t  pr actica l,  th e n ISPs  will  n o  lo nger be all owed  to
prete nd tha t  it is, and wil l be e nco ura gedt oma keth e  li m it ati o nsof their 
o ff ers o bvio u s u p-fr ont  ins teadof using shad y n onse n selikethis. 

~~ ~slive rstorm 
As I  s ee it there are  thr ee reason s t he  te ch  comm u nity h ate s u sage-ba sed
bil l ing .\ -  F irst, any time a c om p a ny  tries u sage-b a se dd ata bill in g,they c harge 
abs o lu tely cri minalr at es . If yo upaid a tt ent ion  to u s age- basedcell ser viceo ver the years, you'd know wh a tI sp e ak o f.
\- Second,  ina n "u nlim i te d"m odel,  some  u s er s  use more, some use  l ess. I n
gen eral the tech  community w i ll be th e on e su sing more- sotheybenefit at the
marg inalexpenseof otheru s ers. The y p aycom par a t iv ely less by v o l umefo r
their  us age.

\ - T hir d,inmy  opinionthere'sat  l ea st  atinyb it of en ti tle me ntgoing around  in t he o nl in e  co mmunity as a  who le .Nobo dywa nts t o pa y  fo r anyth ing.
Youkno w , be ca us e "info rmation wants  t o be free! "and  all.~ ~~
mikea sh
AT&T's overage rates are pre tty  reas onab le. Theycha rge $1 0/G B , whic h is a boutwh aty o u pay f or  th einitial mo n t hly  data  p lananyway.  Of course, there' s 
pr obably leftov ersent i m en t f r om tim es whe n overages were m uch less
r ea s on able, andt her eare sti ll plen ty of such pl aces rema ining.

T he  sec o n d t wo I agree  with, b ut they'r e  sadr ea sons. 

~ ~~
sli ve rst orm
R ates _ h ave _ got ten be tt er, Iagree .
------alexqgb
As recently as18 mon ths a go,  I routin ely got  solid cu stom er service  fr omAT&T.  Wh i le th e wi r el ess servi ce i t self wasr ea lly s ke tchy in NYa n d  SF , any 
ac c ount p robl ems were handledw ith competence  and c are .
G iven  t he incredibleblo wb a c k they'd  r eceived fro m theirpo o r iPh one su pport, 
I alwa y s  f e lt com pell edto tell t hepe o ple I e nd ed up tal king  t o
. Baffles_me as_to why.

I think we_need to_make_it illegal_to_advertise "unlimited" without_it
actually being unlimited._I would have thought_that existing truth-in-
advertising_laws_would cover this, but apparently they don't.

Make it illegal to promise what you never_intend_to deliver_and_this_whole
problem goes away. If unlimited_is practical to offer, then_it will_be
offered. If unlimited is not practical, then ISPs_will_no longer be_allowed to
pretend that it is, and will be encouraged_to make the limitations of their
offers_obvious up-front instead_of_using_shady nonsense like this.

~~~
sliverstorm
As_I see it there are three_reasons the tech community hates usage-based
billing.

\-_First, any time a company tries usage-based_data billing, they charge
absolutely criminal rates._If you paid attention to_usage-based cell_service
over the years, you'd know_what I speak_of.

\- Second,_in an "unlimited"_model, some users use more, some_use less. In
general_the tech community will be the_ones_using more- so_they_benefit_at the
marginal_expense of other_users._They pay_comparatively_less by volume for
their usage.

\- Third,_in_my opinion there's at least a tiny_bit of entitlement going
around_in_the online community as_a whole. Nobody wants to_pay for anything.
You know, because "information_wants to_be free!"_and all.

~~~
mikeash
AT&T's overage rates are pretty reasonable. They charge $10/GB, which_is about
what you pay for the_initial monthly data plan_anyway. Of_course,_there's
probably leftover sentiment_from_times when_overages were much less
reasonable, and there are_still plenty_of such places remaining.

The second two_I agree with, but_they're_sad reasons.

~~~
sliverstorm
Rates _have_ gotten better, I_agree.

------
alexqgb
As recently as 18 months ago,_I routinely got solid customer_service_from
AT&T._While the wireless service itself_was really sketchy in NY and_SF, any
account problems_were handled with competence and care.

Given the_incredible_blowback they'd received from their poor_iPhone_support,
I always felt compelled to tell_the_people_I ended up talking to