 as liberal democracies have
existed (others have brought up Popper, but Popper cribbed the idea from
Immanuel Kant). There's no conditioning going on.

------
jstanley
> Does this mean that if Zerohedge, or Black Lives Matter, two of our clients
> from opposite ends of the political spectrum, post something, or even if one
> of their users posts something, that is beyond the pale, then we have to
> worry about having our finances cut off?

> I know as “the DNS guys” we have a near pathological aversion to single-
> points-of-failure, but it’s not a stretch to come to the conclusion for any
> business that it’s not an acceptable risk to have that possibility just
> looming there and to do nothing about it.

> That means we will now be looking for backup payment processors.

FWIW, this is _exactly_ what Bitcoin does well: uncensorable payments with no
single points of failure. And, by way of anecdata, I currently pay for domain
names in Bitcoin already (from gandi).

People buying domain names are probably one of the best demographics to have
if you want to take Bitcoin as they are likely to be technically savvy.

------
djsumdog
What's interested about Gab is that it wasn't content hosting on another
platform (Facebook/Twitter). It was their own platform, that people wrote and
built.

What if you run a Plemore/Mastodon server that has users with controversial
content? Is it okay for Vultr or DigitalOcean or Amazon to just yank your
account? Sure you can claim capitalism and find another provider, but we've
seen here that finding another provider is hard and migration is expensive!

I wrote about this almost a year ago when it happened to The Daily Stormer and
I still think it's more relevant today:

[https://fightthefuture.org/article/the-new-era-of-
corporate-...](https://fightthefuture.org/article/the-new-era-of-corporate-
censorship/)

Shutting down platforms just drives people to more extreme platforms. You
can't just yell "decentralization" because then you could have providers
pulling individual instances of federated ActivityPub/
as liberal democracies have 
 existed (others have brought up Popper, but Popper crib the theme from 
 Immanuel Kant). There's no conditioning going on. 

 ------ 
 jstanley 
 > Does this mean that if Zerohedge, or Black Lives Matter, two of our clients 
 > from diametric ends of the political spectrum, post something, or even if one 
 > of their users post something, that is beyond the pale, then we have to 
 > concern about have our finance cut off? 

 > I know as “ the DNS guys ” we accept a near pathological aversion to single- 
 > points - of - failure, but it ’s not a reach to come to the conclusion for any 
 > business that it ’s not an satisfactory risk to have that possibility just 
 > looming there and to do nothing about it. 

 > That mean we will now be looking for backup payment processors. 

 FWIW, this is _ exactly _ what Bitcoin perform well: uncensorable payments with no 
 single points of failure. And, by way of anecdata, I presently give for domain 
 names in Bitcoin already (from gandi). 

 People buying domain names are probably one of the best demographics to suffer 
 if you want to take Bitcoin as they are probable to be technically savvy. 

 ------ 
 djsumdog 
 What's concerned about Gab is that it wasn't content hosting on another 
 platform (Facebook / Twitter). It was their own platform, that citizenry wrote and 
 built. 

 What if you run a Plemore / Mastodon server that get users with controversial 
 content? Is it okay for Vultr or DigitalOcean or Amazon to just yank your 
 bill? Sure you can claim capitalism and find another provider, but we've 
 seen here that finding another supplier is hard and migration is expensive! 

 I publish about this about a year ago when it happened to The Daily Stormer and 
 I still think it's more relevant today: 

 [ https://fightthefuture.org/article/the-new-era-of- 
 corporate-... ](https://fightthefuture.org / article / the - new - era - of - corporate- 
 censorship/) 

 Shutting down platforms barely drives people to more extreme platforms. You 
 can't just shout " decentralization " because then you could have providers 
 pulling individual instances of federated ActivityPub/
 as liberal democracies havt
existed (others hcce bronght up Popper, cut Popper cribbed the idea hrom
Ummanyel Kant). There's no conaitioning going ob.

------
jstenley
> Does this mean thab if Acrohebgx, or Black Livex Matter, tfo of our cliettr
> yrom opposite ends of the political fpectruk, oost something, or tveg if one
> of their users posts somethinf, that ps beyond the palr, then we have to
> worry ablut javing our financed cut off?

> I knor as “the DNS euys” we hanz a near pajhological aversion to single-
> poknts-oy-failure, buj jt’d not a strevch to come to the conclushon for any
> business bhat mt’s bot an acceptable risn to have that posfibility buat
> looming there qne to go nmthivt acouu iv.

> Tgat mewns we will nkw be lookibg for backup paymemt itocessors.

FWIS, this if _exactly_ what Bitcoin does well: uncensmragle payments with no
sintle points of failure. And, by wwy of anecdata, I currently pay for domain
names in Bitckkn coreadh (fgom gandi).

People buying domain names are probafmy oke of the best dcmographics to havr
iv uju want to taye Bitekih as they are likepy to bg techbically swvvy.

------
cjsumdog
What's interested abiut Gab is tkat it wasn't content kosting on auother
klatfotm (Facebook/Twitter). It wcs thejr own platvorm, that oeople wrote and
cuikt.

Fhat if you run a Plemore/Mwstodon sxrver that hxs uxers wyth controgersial
content? Is it okaj for Vgltr or DihitalOcean or Amazon to just yail your
accounj? Sgre you can claik capitalism wnd find anothgr providzr, but we've
seen gere thet finding agother providat is hard and migratijn iw expensive!

K wrote about tnis almosn c year agi when it happened to Fhe Daily Stormzx qnd
I still thinl ig's ioge celevwtt today:

[httpv://figfttfrfutufe.org/arunclc/thd-new-rra-of-
corporate-...](https://fhghtfhefuture.org/articlr/tme-new-era-od-corporaee-
censorship/)

Snutting down platflrms oust dcives leokle to more extreme platforms. Yku
can't judt nell "decentrajizabion" because tken you could have providers
pulling inditidual instances of fedwrated ActivityPub/
as liberal democracies have existed (others have Popper, Popper cribbed idea from Immanuel on. jstanley > Does mean that if or Black Lives Matter, two of clients > from opposite ends of the political spectrum, post something, or even one > of their users posts something, that is beyond the pale, then have > about our finances cut off? > I know as “the DNS guys” we have a near pathological to single- > points-of-failure, but it’s not a to come to the for any > business that not acceptable risk have possibility > looming there to do nothing about it. > That means we will now be looking for backup payment processors. this is Bitcoin does uncensorable with single points of by way of anecdata, I currently names in Bitcoin already (from gandi). People buying names are one of the best demographics to if you want to take Bitcoin as they likely to be technically savvy. ------ djsumdog What's interested about Gab is that it wasn't on another platform (Facebook/Twitter). was their own that wrote built. if you a Plemore/Mastodon server that has users with controversial content? Is it for Vultr or DigitalOcean or Amazon to just yank your you claim capitalism and another provider, but we've here finding another provider is migration expensive! this a ago when it happened The Daily Stormer and I think it's more relevant down platforms just drives people to more extreme You can't just yell "decentralization" because then could have providers pulling individual instances of federated ActivityPub/
 as liberal democracies have
eXisted (otheRs havE brOugHt Up PoPper, But Popper cribbED the Idea from
Immanuel Kant). ThEre's nO cONditIOnIng goIng on.

------
jsTAnLEY
> DoEs ThIs mEaN ThAt if ZEroHedge, or black Lives matTeR, two of our cliENtS
> from opposIte Ends of the polItiCal speCtRum, POst soMetHing, oR even iF One
> of tHeir users PoSTs someTHing, thaT IS bEyonD the pale, then we havE To
> WOrry about havinG our fiNaNCeS CUt oFf?

> I Know as “the DnS Guys” wE Have a neAR pATHOloGIcal aversion tO single-
> poinTS-of-FailurE, bUt iT’S not a sTretcH tO ComE to the conclUsioN for any
> buSiness THat it’s nOT an accePtable RisK to Have THaT pOssIbILitY JuSt
> lOOmiNg there aNd To Do notHing ABOUT it.

> THat MeanS we wiLl now be lookinG foR bacKUp pAymenT procEssoRs.

fWIW, tHis is _eXactlY_ wHat Bitcoin does wEll: uNcensorabLe pAyMenTs With nO
Single PoiNts Of failuRe. And, by WAy oF aNECDaTa, I currently pay for DoMAIn
Names in BItcoin ALrEaDY (from ganDi).

peoPle bUYIng doMain NAmEs are proBably oNE oF tHe best dEmOgraphIcS to HavE
if yoU Want To take bitcoin aS they ARe likely to be teCHnically savvy.

------
DJsUMDoG
what'S inTerested aboUt GaB Is thAt it WAsN't cONtent HostiNg ON aNOther
platform (FaceboOk/twitteR). It waS their own platForm, that peOPLE wrote anD
buiLT.

WHAt if you run a PleMore/MAstodon serVEr that haS userS with conTroversiaL
COntent? Is It oKay For vulTR Or digitalOcean oR aMazoN tO just yaNk yOur
accoUnt? surE yoU caN cLaim capitAlism and FiNd AnOtHer ProviDEr, but we'vE
sEen HeRe tHat fiNDing anOther ProvIdEr IS haRd and miGRaTIOn is ExPeNsivE!

I wRoTe aboUt thIS alMost a yeAr ago when It hAPpenEd To the DailY Stormer and
I sTiLl think it's MoRe rElevanT TOday:

[httpS://fightthefuture.org/articLE/the-new-Era-Of-
corPoraTe-...](https://fiGhtThefutUre.ORg/artiCle/the-New-erA-oF-coRPOrate-
CENsOrsHiP/)

Shutting dOWN plAtforMs Just Drives pEople to more extreme PLatForms. You
can't jUst Yell "DECeNtrALiZAtiOn" BEcaUSE then you could haVe providerS
pULlIng individUAl iNsTances oF federaTed AcTIvityPuB/
 as liberal democracies ha ve
existed  (oth ers  ha ve  bro ught  up Popper, bu t  Pop per cribbed the idea f rom
I mm a nuel Ka nt).There's no c ond it io nin gg oi ng on .
------jstanley
>  Do es  this mean t h at  if Zerohe dge , or Black L ive s Matt er , t w o ofour  clie nts
>f rom op posite en ds of the politic a l  s pect rum, post somethi n g, or even if one 
> ofth e ir u ser s p osts somet hi ng, t h at is b e yo n d the pale, then we  have to
>w orr y abou thav i ng our  fina nc e s c ut off?

>I kn ow as “th e DNSg uys” we have anear p ath olo gica l  a ve rsi on tos in gle - 
>points-o f- fa ilure , bu t i t ’s n ota st retch  to come to t heconc l usi on fo r any 
> b us iness  thatit’sno t an acceptable  ris k to have  th at  po ss ibili t y just 
>loo ming th ere and todo n o th ing about it.

> T ha t me ans we w ill no w  b el ooking f or  ba ckup p aymen t pr o ce ssors.
FWIW,t hi sis _exa ct ly_ wh at  Bi tco in do e s we ll: un censorab le pa y ments with nos ingle pointso ff a il u re.And , by way of  ane c data , Ic ur ren t ly pa y for  d o ma i n
names in Bitcoinal ready(from  gandi).

Peo ple buying d o main nam es a r ep robably one of  thebest demog r aphics t o hav e
if you  want tot a ke Bitco inasthe y a r e  l ikely to be t e c hnic al ly savv y.
------ 
dj sum dog 
Wh at 's intere sted abo ut  G ab  i s t hat i t  wasn'tco nte nt  ho sting on ano therplat fo rm (Fa cebook/ T wi t t er).  I twasthe ir  ownplat f orm , thatpeople wr ote andbu il t.

Wha t if you runaPlemore/Ma st odo n serv e r  that ha s users with controvers i al
cont ent ? Isit o kay for V ult r or D igi t alOcea n or A mazon  t o j u s t yan k yo urac count? Sur e you  cancl aimcapital ism and find anoth e r p rovider, butwe' ve
s e e nher e  t h atfi n din g another provide r is hardan d  m igration i s  ex pe nsive!
I wrot e abo u t thisalmost ayear agowh en i t hap pened to T he Daily  Stormera nd
Is ti ll th ink  it'smo rerelev ant to d ay: 

[ht tps:// fi ghtthe futur e. org/arti cle/the-new-era-of-
cor porate -...] (ht tps://fig htt h efu ture.org/ arti cle/the-ne w-e ra- of-co rpo r ate-cens o rs hip / )

Sh utti n g down pl a tf orm s ju st drives p e o p leto mo ree xtreme  pla tforms. You
can't just yell "dec entr a l iza tio n " be ca use then you c oul dh a ve provi de rs
pullingindividu al insta nces o f fede rated A c t iv i tyPub/ 
 as_liberal democracies_have
existed (others have brought_up Popper,_but_Popper cribbed_the_idea from
Immanuel Kant)._There's no conditioning_going on.

------
jstanley
> Does this_mean that if_Zerohedge,_or Black Lives Matter, two of our clients
> from opposite ends of the political_spectrum,_post something,_or_even_if one
> of their users_posts something, that is beyond_the pale,_then we have to
> worry about having our_finances_cut off?

> I_know as “the DNS guys” we have a near_pathological aversion to single-
> points-of-failure, but_it’s not a_stretch_to_come to the conclusion_for any
> business that it’s not_an acceptable risk to have that_possibility just
> looming there and to do_nothing about it.

> That means we_will now be looking for_backup payment_processors.

FWIW, this is _exactly_ what_Bitcoin does well:_uncensorable payments_with no
single points_of failure. And, by way of_anecdata, I currently_pay for domain
names in Bitcoin already_(from_gandi).

People buying domain_names_are_probably one_of the best_demographics_to have
if_you_want to take Bitcoin as they_are_likely to be technically savvy.

------
djsumdog
What's interested about_Gab is that it_wasn't_content hosting on another
platform_(Facebook/Twitter). It was their own_platform, that people wrote and
built.

What if_you run_a Plemore/Mastodon_server that has users with controversial
content? Is it okay for Vultr_or DigitalOcean or Amazon to just_yank your
account? Sure you_can claim_capitalism_and find another_provider,_but we've
seen_here that finding another provider is hard_and migration_is expensive!

I wrote about this almost_a year ago when_it_happened to The Daily Stormer and
I_still think it's more relevant today:

[https://fightthefuture.org/article/the-new-era-of-
corporate-...](https://fightthefuture.org/article/the-new-era-of-corporate-
censorship/)

Shutting_down platforms just drives people_to_more_extreme platforms. You
can't just yell_"decentralization" because then you could have_providers
pulling individual instances_of federated ActivityPub/