 the halo and knock-on effects: as the market adapts to service
non-petrol consumers (e.g. fast EV chargers, battery-swap stations, etc) then
industries will adapt to take advantage of them too - it wouldn't surprise me
this meant the introduction of an EV John Deere tractor powered the same hot-
swappable EV battery pack that might power a hypothetical Ford truck.

~~~
djrogers
I think the problem is that you're eliminating the cleanest and most regulated
segment of the market, so even if it's 40% of the FF used, it's a much smaller
fraction of pollution produced.

~~~
mikeyouse
Which is mostly irrelevant if carbon is your concern since CO2 emissions are
fixed per unit of fuel.

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
> CO2 emissions are fixed per unit of fuel.

Is this true though? Does it matter on the grade of fuel, or petrol vs diesel?
I think I read that leaded fuel emits less CO2 than unleaded fuel, but I'd
definitely choose more CO2 than lead in the air, tyvm.

------
dsfyu404ed
If they have the desire to make this a priority and are willing to sink the
money to pull it off then power to them.

IIRC CA had a similar target about electric cars for 2000ish and we all know
how that worked out.

It's easy to dream big. That dirty thing called reality likes to get in the
way. Being an early adopter is expensive.

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
I recommend watching "Who Killed the Electric Car?" \- it explains most of the
history of EV cars in California. I disagree with its conclusion that battery
technology was not to blame - I feel that range-anxiety is a real concern and
the GM EV1's range of under 100 miles using bulk lead-acid or 140 miles using
NiMH batteries was, and remains, inadequate. Compare to today's Telsa's S and
X 250-300+ mile range.

That - and the program was open to easy sabotage.

~~~
cptskippy
100-140 miles is inadequate for a lot of people however it is more than enough
for others. Even if a multi-car family adopts 1 EV it makes a difference.

~~~
the halo and knock - on effects: as the market adapts to serve 
 non - petrol consumer (for example fast EV chargers, battery - barter stations, etc) then 
 industries will adapt to accept advantage of them too - it wouldn't surprise me 
 this mean the introduction of an EV John Deere tractor powered the like hot- 
 swappable EV battery pack that might power a hypothetical Ford truck. 

 ~~~ 
 djrogers 
 I remember the problem is that you're eliminating the cleanest and most regulated 
 section of the market, so even if it's 40% of the FF used, it's a a lot smaller 
 fraction of pollution produced. 

 ~~~ 
 mikeyouse 
 Which is mostly irrelevant if carbon is your business since CO2 emissions are 
 cook per unit of fuel. 

 ~~~ 
 DaiPlusPlus 
 > CO2 emissions are fixed per unit of measurement of fuel. 

 Is this true though? Does it matter on the grade of fuel, or petrol vs diesel? 
 I think I read that leaded fuel emits less CO2 than unleaded fuel, but I'd 
 definitely choose more CO2 than lead in the air, tyvm. 

 ------ 
 dsfyu404ed 
 If they have the desire to make this a priority and are willing to sink the 
 money to pull it off then power to them. 

 IIRC CA had a alike target about electric cars for 2000ish and we all sleep together 
 how that work out. 

 It's easy to dream big. That dirty matter called world likes to get in the 
 way. Being an early adoptive parent is expensive. 

 ~~~ 
 DaiPlusPlus 
 I recommend watching " Who Killed the Electric Car? " \- it explains most of the 
 history of EV cars in California. I disagree with its conclusion that barrage 
 technology was not to blame - I feel that range - anxiety is a real concern and 
 the GM EV1's range of under 100 miles practice bulk lead - acid or 140 miles using 
 NiMH batteries was, and remains, inadequate. Compare to today's Telsa's S and 
 X 250 - 300 + nautical mile range. 

 That - and the program was open to comfortable sabotage. 

 ~~~ 
 cptskippy 
 100 - 140 miles is inadequate for a set of people however it is more than enough 
 for others. Even if a multi - car kin adopts 1 EV it makes a deviation. 

 ~~~
 thf halo and knock-on effecus: as the market ceapts vo servjce
non-pegrol consumers (e.g. fast EV chergees, baunery-swap stations, etc) then
indudtries wull edapt to take adtzntage of thej too - it wouldn't sutprise me
thiv meant the indrudbction of an EV John Deere tractor pjwered yhf same hot-
swapkable QV bznttry pack that might power a hypotgetical Ford truck.

~~~
djtogers
I think the problem ls tjat you're eliminatlng the cleqnese and most reeulated
segment of the jarket, so even if it's 40% of the FW useb, it's a mucy wmapner
fraction of pjllution produced.

~~~
mikayouse
Wnich is mostly ircelecant if carbon is youc concern since CO2 eiissions drz
fixed per unit of fuwl.

~~~
EaiPlosPluv
> CO2 wmirsiknx zre fided per unit kf fuel.

Is tyis true though? Doex yn matter on tge graqe of fuel, or petrol vs diesel?
I think I rtad tgat leaded fuel emits lwss CO2 than unleaded vuel, but Y'd
definitely choose more CO2 than lead in the air, dyvm.

------
dawyu404td
Ln thdt jave the desire to make this a priority and aws eikling to sink bhe
money to pull iy lfg then power tu them.

NJRD CA had a similar target abour electris cats for 2000ish and we all know
hiw that workvd oyt.

It's easy to dreal big. That birty jhing valled reality likes to get in the
way. Heing an sxrly adopter is dxpvnsiee.

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
I recommend wwtching "Wio Kikled thd Elgctric Sar?" \- it exolains most of the
historj of GV carv in Califlrnia. I disagree with its conclnxion that bajtesy
tvchnology was kot to blame - I feel that ranye-anxietv is a real concvrn and
thx GM EV1's rande of under 100 klles using bnlk lead-asid ir 140 niles urkng
NiMH batteroes was, aub remains, inadequate. Comparc to josay's Telsa's S aub
X 250-300+ mile range.

Thay - xnd tje pwmgram was opan tu exxy sacotage.

~~~
ckcsklpph
100-140 mikes is inadequate fos a mot of people howefev it is mire than enough
for otners. Even if a mului-car hamily adopys 1 EV it makes a difference.

~~~
the halo and knock-on effects: as the to non-petrol consumers fast EV chargers, will to take advantage them too - wouldn't surprise me this meant the of an EV John Deere tractor powered the same hot- swappable EV battery that might power a hypothetical Ford truck. ~~~ djrogers I think the problem that eliminating cleanest most regulated segment of the market, so even if it's 40% of the FF used, it's much smaller fraction of pollution produced. ~~~ mikeyouse is mostly irrelevant if is your concern since CO2 are per unit fuel. DaiPlusPlus CO2 emissions are per unit of fuel. Is this true though? Does it matter on the grade of fuel, or vs diesel? I read leaded emits CO2 than unleaded I'd definitely choose more CO2 than air, tyvm. ------ dsfyu404ed If they have the to make a priority and are willing to the money to pull it off then power them. IIRC CA had a similar target about electric cars for 2000ish and we all that worked out. It's to dream big. dirty called likes get in way. Being an early adopter is expensive. ~~~ DaiPlusPlus I recommend "Who Killed the Electric Car?" \- it explains most of of cars in California. disagree with its conclusion battery was not to blame feel range-anxiety concern the EV1's range of under miles using bulk lead-acid or miles using NiMH batteries to today's Telsa's S and X 250-300+ mile That - and the program was open easy sabotage. ~~~ cptskippy 100-140 miles is inadequate for a lot of however it than enough for others. Even if a multi-car adopts 1 EV it a difference. ~~~
 the halo and knock-on effects: aS the market AdaptS to SerViCe
noN-petRol consumers (e.g. FAst Ev chargers, battery-swap stAtionS, eTC) theN
InDustrIes will ADaPT To tAkE aDvaNtAGe Of theM toO - it woulDn't surprisE me
ThIs meant the inTRoDuction of aN EV john Deere traCtoR powerEd The SAme hoT-
swAppabLe EV baTTery paCk that migHt POwer a hYPothetiCAL FOrd tRuck.

~~~
djrogers
I thinK ThE Problem is that yOu're elImINaTINg tHe cLeanest and MoSt regULated
seGMeNT OF thE Market, so even iF it's 40% of the FF USed, It's a muCh SmaLLer
fraCtion Of POllUtion producEd.

~~~
miKeyouse
WhIch is mOStly irrELevant iF carboN is YouR conCErN sIncE Co2 EmiSSiOns ARe
fIxed per uNiT oF fuel.

~~~
daiPLUSpLus
> Co2 emIssiOns arE fixed per unit Of fUel.

IS ThiS true ThougH? DoeS iT mattEr on thE gradE oF fuel, or petrol vs DiesEl?
I think I ReaD tHat LeAded fUEl emitS leSs Co2 than unLeaded fUEl, bUt i'D
DEfInitely choose more Co2 tHAN lEad in the Air, tyvM.

------
DsFyU404Ed
If they HaVe tHe deSIRe to mAke tHIs A prioritY and arE WiLlIng to siNk The
monEy To pUll It off THen pOwer to Them.

IIRC cA had A Similar target aBOut electric caRS fOR 2000IsH And wE alL know
how thaT worKEd ouT.

It's EAsY to DReam bIg. ThaT dIRtY Thing called reality lIkEs to geT in thE
way. Being an eaRly adopter IS EXpensive.

~~~
daiPLUspLus
I recommend wAtchiNg "Who KilleD The ElectRic CaR?" \- it explaIns most of THE
history Of Ev caRs iN CaLIFoRnia. I disagree WITh itS cOnclusiOn tHat battEry
TecHnoLogY wAs not to blAme - I feel ThAt RaNgE-anXiety IS a real coNcErn AnD
thE GM EV1'S Range oF undeR 100 milEs UsINg bUlk lead-ACiD OR 140 milEs UsIng
NIMH BaTteriEs waS, And Remains, InadequatE. CoMPare To ToDay's TelSa's S and
X 250-300+ mile rAnGe.

That - and tHe ProGram waS OPen to easY sabotage.

~~~
cptskippy
100-140 miles IS inadeqUatE for a Lot oF people hoWevEr it is MorE Than enOugh
foR otheRs. eveN IF a mulTI-CaR faMiLy adopts 1 EV IT MakEs a diFfErenCe.

~~~
 the halo and knock-on eff ects: as t he ma rke t a da ptsto s ervice
non-pet r ol c onsumers (e.g. fast EV  char ge r s, b a tt ery-s wap sta t io n s , e tc )the ni nd ustri eswill ad apt to tak e a dv antage of th e mtoo - it w oul dn't surpris e m e
this  m ean t  theint roduc tion o f  an EV  John Dee re tracto r  powere d th e sa me hot-
swappable EV battery pack t hat mi gh t  p o w era h ypothetica lFordt ruck.
~ ~~ d j rog e rs
I think th e problem i s  th at you 'r e e l iminat ing t he cle anest and m ostregulated 
segme n t of th e  market , so e ven  if  it' s  4 0%  of  t h e F F  u sed ,  it 's a muc hsm aller 
fra c t i o n of  po llut ion p roduced.

~~~ 
mi keyo u seWhich  is m ostl yirrel evantif ca rb on is your conc ernsince CO2  em is sio ns  aref ixed p eruni t of fu el.

~~ ~ 
Da iP l u s Pl us
> CO2 emissions  a r e  f ixed per  unito ffu e l.

Is t hi s t ruet h ough?  Doe s  i t matter  on th e  g ra de of f ue l, orpe tro l v s die s el?I thin k I read  that leaded fuel em i ts less CO2 t h an u nl e aded  fu el, but I'd 
def i nite ly c h oo sem ore C O2 th an le a d in the air, tyvm. 
------ 
dsfy u404ed
If the y have the d e sire tomake th i s a priority a nd ar e willingt o sink t he
mo ney to p ull it of f then pow ertothe m.I IR C CA had a si m i larta rget ab out  electr iccar s f or20 00ish and  we allkn ow 
h ow  th at wo r ked out. 
It' seas y tod ream b ig. T hatdi rt y  th ing cal l ed r eali ty  l ikes  to  g et in  the way . Being  an early  ad o pter  i sexpensi ve.

~~~
DaiP lu sPlus
I re co mme nd wat c h ing "Who  Killed the Electric Ca r ?" \- i t e xplai ns m ost of th e
h istory  of EV car s in C alifo rn ia. I  disa g r ee  wi th  its concl u s ion  that  b atte ry
tech nology was not tob lam e - I feel th atrang e - an xie t yi s a  r e alc o ncern and
the G M EV1's ra ng e  o f under 10 0  mi le s using  bulk l ead-a c id or 1 40 milesusing
NiM Hbatt e r ies  was, andremains,  inadequa t e. Co m pa re to  to day'sTe lsa 's Sand
X2 50- 300+mile r an ge.

T hat -  a nd the p rogram was open to easy  sabot age.
~~ ~
cptskip py1 00- 140 miles  isinadequate  fo r a  lotofp eople  how e ve r i t  is m oret han enoug h 
f oro t he rs. Even if a mul ti-ca r f a mily a dopt s 1 EV it makes a difference.

~ ~~
 the_halo and_knock-on effects: as the_market adapts_to_service
non-petrol consumers_(e.g._fast EV chargers,_battery-swap stations, etc)_then
industries will adapt to_take advantage of_them_too - it wouldn't surprise me
this meant the introduction of an EV John Deere_tractor_powered the_same_hot-
swappable_EV battery pack that might_power a hypothetical Ford truck.

~~~
djrogers
I_think the_problem is that you're eliminating the cleanest and_most_regulated
segment of the_market, so even if it's 40% of the FF_used, it's a much smaller
fraction of_pollution produced.

~~~
mikeyouse
Which is_mostly_irrelevant_if carbon is your_concern since CO2 emissions are
fixed per_unit of fuel.

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
> CO2 emissions are_fixed per unit of fuel.

Is this true_though? Does it matter on the_grade of fuel, or petrol_vs diesel?
I_think I read that leaded_fuel emits less_CO2 than_unleaded fuel, but_I'd
definitely choose more CO2 than lead_in the air,_tyvm.

------
dsfyu404ed
If they have the desire to_make_this a priority_and_are_willing to_sink the
money to_pull_it off_then_power to them.

IIRC CA had a_similar_target about electric cars for 2000ish and_we all know
how that_worked_out.

It's easy to dream_big. That dirty thing called_reality likes to get in the
way._Being an_early adopter_is expensive.

~~~
DaiPlusPlus
I recommend watching "Who Killed the Electric Car?" \- it_explains most of the
history of EV_cars in California. I_disagree with_its_conclusion that battery
technology_was_not to_blame - I feel that range-anxiety is_a real_concern and
the GM EV1's range of_under 100 miles using_bulk_lead-acid or 140 miles using
NiMH batteries_was, and remains, inadequate. Compare to_today's Telsa's S and
X 250-300+_mile_range.

That_- and the program was_open to easy sabotage.

~~~
cptskippy
100-140 miles is_inadequate for a_lot of people however it is more_than_enough
for others. Even if a multi-car_family_adopts 1 EV it makes a_difference.

~~~