
but refusing to hire good people.

------
onion2k
I read " _You must have 10 years experience of <tech>_" as shorthand for "
_Have you stopped learning new things? Come and work here._ "

~~~
chrisseaton
That's ridiculous. Why does learning new technology mean you need to stop
using the old technology?

~~~
onion2k
It doesn't, obviously. My point was about how companies advertise jobs. A
company advertising a job with a requirement of 10 years experience in a
technology wants someone who's able to tackle pretty much any problem from the
outset. _They're not open to people learning._

------
mrmrcoleman
A major GPS navigation company hired me for a job I wasn't ready for in 2006
when I was 24 years old. It was my first job at a big company.

I'm pretty sure I got through because they were growing way too fast and I
slipped through the process somehow.

Being dropped into the deep end and surrounded by smart and experienced people
was incredible for me. It took me a while to get up-to-speed but when I did
I'm sure I more than repaid their investment.

------
honkycat
I can't disagree with this person more.

More than anything have learned that education and training are hugely
important and hiring to train leads to mediocre staff who think their two
years of development work stack up to your 4 years of college and 6 years of
professional experience.

They take forever to start writing productive code, if they ever bother
leaning at all.

I will never hire someone without a degree or equivalent experience again.
Even for Jr. roles

~~~
nil_pointer
This strategy may weed out duds, but it will also occasionally overlook great
people. One of the brightest engineers I know dropped out of high school and
got a GED, but was obsessed with tech and practiced building things daily.
He's 30 and a VP now.

------
grigjd3
This feels a bit like a strawman. I've interviewed with FAANG companies and I
run interviews and I don't see these puzzle questions. I see people looking
for basics and looking into problem solving and hints that candidates have
done good work before. Granted, I've seen that
but refusing to hire good people. 

 ------ 
 onion2k 
 I understand " _ You must take 10 years experience of < tech > _ " as shorthand for " 
 _ Have you stopped learn new things? fall and sour here. _ " 

 ~~~ 
 chrisseaton 
 That's ridiculous. Why does learn new technology think of you need to stop 
 use the old engineering? 

 ~~~ 
 onion2k 
 It doesn't, obviously. My distributor point was about how company advertise jobs. A 
 company advertising a caper with a requirement of 10 years experience in a 
 technology desire someone who's able to tackle pretty much any problem from the 
 outset. _ They're not clear to people learning. _ 

 ------ 
 mrmrcoleman 
 A major GPS navigation company hired me for a job I wasn't ready for in 2006 
 when I was 24 years old. It was my first job at a big company. 

 I'm pretty sure I got through because they were growing way excessively fast and I 
 slipped through the process somehow. 

 Being spend into the abstruse end and surrounded by fresh and experienced people 
 was incredible for me. It took me a while to get up - to - speed but when I did 
 I'm indisputable I more than repaid their investment. 

 ------ 
 honkycat 
 I can't disagree with this person more. 

 More than anything have learned that education and education are hugely 
 important and hiring to train leads to mediocre staff who think their two 
 year of development work stack up to your 4 years of college and 6 years of 
 professional experience. 

 They take everlastingly to start writing productive code, if they always bother 
 lean at all. 

 I will never hire someone without a academic degree or equivalent experience again. 
 Even for Jr. roles 

 ~~~ 
 nil_pointer 
 This strategy may weed out duds, but it will also occasionally overlook bang-up 
 people. One of the bright engineers I acknowledge dropped out of gamey school and 
 got a GED, but was obsessed with tech and practiced building thing daily. 
 He's 30 and a VP now. 

 ------ 
 grigjd3 
 This feels a bit like a strawman. I've interviewed with FAANG companies and I 
 run interview and I don't see these puzzle questions. I understand people looking 
 for basics and looking into problem solving and touch that candidates have 
 done good work before. Granted, I've seen that

but refusing to hire good ptople.

------
onion2k
I read " _You mnst havs 10 years experience of <tech>_" as shortiand for "
_Yave you stopped learnkng new tjings? Cone aid work here._ "

~~~
chrmaseaton
Bkat's dldicunius. Why does lgarning new dechnology meat hob need to stop
using the old technolody?

~~~
onion2l
Ih doesn't, obvioosly. Kr pojnt was about how companies advertjse jobv. A
company adfertising a job with a reqkirelent of 10 years expfrience in q
tecrbology wants someone who's able to jackle pretty much any problem ffom tke
outset. _Thgv'ee jmt open to 'eople learning._

------
mrmvboleman
D major GPS navigatiok com'any hired me for a job I wasn't ready for ig 2006
when I faa 24 years old. It wqs my fhrst job qt x bjg ckmpany.

L'm 'retty sure I got throygh because they wete trowing way tko fase wnd I
slipped through the process somehof.

Bejng dropped into the dewp end and surrounded by smart and experienced people
was incredible for me. It tmok mx x wkljd tl get up-to-speed but when I did
I'm sure I more egam gepaid their inveftment.

------
honkyvah
I san't disagree with cgia person more.

More hhan anithing have leawned that education and trainint are hugely
pmpoetant and hiring tl train leabs to kediovre staff who think thenr two
gears of degelopment dork stack up to yolr 4 fears of college and 6 yearf of
profewsioual expefienve.

They take foreger to start writing profuctire coge, if they ever bother
leaning at all.

I will never hire spmaonv without a denree or equivalqnt experience again.
Eren fof Jr. roles

~~~
hil_poinver
This straeegy may weed lut duds, but it will alsi ocxasionauuy overlook grrat
people. One of thw brightest enginecrs I inow dropped ouc if high school snd
eot a GXD, bue was obsesseg wigh grch avd pracunceb cuilcing things daily.
He's 30 ans a VP now.

------
grigjd3
Thos feels a bit likq a strawman. O've interviewed wiuh FAAIG com'anies anq I
run interviews and I don't sse these ouzdle questions. I sce pgople lookiug
for basics and looking into problem sooving and hints thqt candidates have
dpke good work befowe. Granteg, I've seen that
but refusing to hire good people. ------ read _You must 10 years experience " you stopped learning things? Come and here._ " ~~~ chrisseaton That's ridiculous. does learning new technology mean you need to stop using the old technology? onion2k It doesn't, obviously. My point was about how companies advertise jobs. A advertising job a of 10 years experience in a technology wants someone who's able to tackle pretty much any from the outset. _They're not open to people ------ mrmrcoleman A major navigation company hired me for job wasn't ready in when was 24 years It was my first job at a big company. I'm pretty sure I got through because they growing way and I through process Being dropped into end and surrounded by smart and incredible for me. It took me a while get up-to-speed when I did I'm sure I than repaid their investment. ------ honkycat I can't with this person more. More than anything have learned that education and training are hugely hiring to train leads mediocre staff who their years development stack up your 4 years of college and 6 years of professional experience. take forever to start writing productive code, if they ever at I will never someone without a degree equivalent again. Even for Jr. nil_pointer strategy duds, it also occasionally overlook great One of the brightest engineers know dropped out of GED, but was obsessed with tech and practiced things daily. He's 30 and a VP ------ grigjd3 This feels a bit like a strawman. I've interviewed with companies and interviews and I don't see these puzzle questions. see people looking for and looking into problem solving and hints that candidates done work before. I've seen that

but refusing to hire good peopLe.

------
onion2k
I rEad " _YoU muSt hAvE 10 yeaRs exPerience of <tech>_" AS shoRthand for "
_Have you stoppeD learNiNG new THiNgs? CoMe and woRK hERE._ "

~~~
chRiSsEatOn
tHaT's ridIcuLous. Why Does learniNg nEw Technology meAN yOu need to stOp
uSing the old teChnOlogy?

~~~
oNiOn2k
iT doesN't, oBviouSly. My pOInt was About how cOmPAnies aDVertise JOBs. a
comPany advertising a jOB wITh a requirement Of 10 yearS eXPeRIEncE in A
technologY wAnts sOMeone whO'S aBLE To tACkle pretty mucH any problem FRom The
outSeT. _ThEY're not Open tO pEOplE learning._

------
mrMrcoLeman
A majOr GPS nAVigatioN Company Hired mE foR a jOb I wASn'T rEadY fOR in 2006
WHeN I wAS 24 yeArs old. It WaS mY firsT job AT A BIg coMpaNy.

I'm PrettY sure I got throUgh BecaUSe tHey weRe groWing WaY too fAst and i
slipPeD through the procEss sOmehow.

BeiNg dRoPpeD iNto thE Deep enD anD suRroundeD by smarT And ExPERIeNced people
was increDiBLE fOr me. It toOk me a wHIlE tO Get up-to-sPeEd bUt whEN i did
I'M surE i mOre than rEpaid tHEiR iNvestmeNt.

------
HonkycAt
i caN't dIsagrEE witH this pErson morE.

More THan anything havE Learned that edUCaTIOn ANd trAinIng are hugelY
impORtanT and HIrIng TO traiN leadS tO MeDIocre staff who think tHeIr two
yEars oF development wOrk stack up TO YOur 4 years Of coLLeGE and 6 years of
proFessiOnal experiENce.

They tAke foRever to sTart writiNG ProductiVe cOde, If tHey EVEr Bother
leaning AT All.

I WiLl never HirE someonE wiThoUt a DegReE or equivaLent expeRiEnCe AgAin.
even fOR Jr. roles

~~~
NiL_poInTer
this sTRategy May weEd ouT dUdS, But It will aLSo OCCasiOnAlLy ovErlOoK greaT
peoPLe. ONe of the Brightest EngINeerS I KnOw droppEd out of high scHoOl and
got a GeD, But Was obsESSed with tEch and practiced building THings daIly.
he's 30 anD a VP Now.

------
grigjd3
thiS feels A biT Like a sTrawmaN. I've iNtErvIEWed wiTH fAaNG CoMpanies and i
RUn iNtervIeWs anD I don't sEe these puzzle questIOns. i see people looKinG
for BASiCs aND lOOkiNg INto PROblem solving and Hints that cAnDIdAtes have
doNE goOd Work befOre. GranTed, I'vE Seen thaT

but refusing to hire good  people.
----- -
o nio n2 k
Iread  " _You must h a ve 1 0 years experience of<tech >_ "  ass ho rthan d for " _H a v e y ou  s top pe d  l earni ngnew thi ngs? Comeand  w ork here._ " 
~ ~~
chrisse ato n
That's rid icu lous.Wh y d o es le arn ing n ew tec h nology  mean you  n e ed tos top
usi n g  t he o ld technology?

~ ~ ~o nion2k
It does n't, o bv i ou s l y.Mypoint wasab out h o w compa n ie s a dve r tise jobs. Acompany adv e rti sing a  j obw ith arequi re m ent  of 10 year s ex periencein a
t e chnolog y  wantssomeon e w ho' s ab l eto  ta ck l e p r et tym uch  any pro bl em  from  the o u t set.  _T hey' re no t open to peo ple  lea r nin g._
----- -
mr mr colem an
A m ajorGP S navigation co mpan y hired m e f or  ajo b I w a sn't r ead y f or in 2 006
whe n  Iwa s 2 4years old. It wasmy f ir st job a t a bi g  c om p any.

I' mpre ttys u re Igott hr ough bec ause t h ey  w ere gro wi ng way  t oofas t and I
sl ippedthroughthe p r ocess somehow. 
Being droppe d  i n t ot he d eep  end and su rrou n dedby s m ar t a n d exp erien ce d  p e ople
was incredible  f or me.  It t ook me a whil e to get u p - t o-speedbutw he n  I did
I'm sur e I m ore than r e paid the ir in vestment .

------ h onkycatI c an' t d isa g r ee  with this pe r s on m or e.

Mor e t han any thi nghav e l ea rned that  educati on  a nd  t rai ninga re hugel yimp or tan t and hiring  to t rain  l ea d s t o medio c re s taff  w ho  thi nkth eir t wo
y e ars  of dev elopmentwor k  sta ck  u p to yo ur 4 years of  c ollege and  6  ye ars of p rofessio nal experience.

They t a ke fore ver  to s tart  writingpro ductiv e c o de, if  theyeverbo the r leani n g  a t a ll .

I willn e ver  hire  s omeo ne with out a degree or eq u iva lent experien ceagai n . 
E ven fo r  Jr .r ole s 
~~~
nil_pointe r
This str at e gy  may weedo utdu ds, but  it wil l als o  occasi onally ov erlook gr ea t
pe o p le.  One of th e bright est engin e ers I kn ow dr opp ed out  o f h igh s choola ndgot a  GED,bu t wasobses se d with t ech and practiced build ing th ingsdai ly.
He's30a nda VP now. 

-- ----
grigj d3Thi s fee lsa  bitlike astr a wman.  I'v e  intervie w ed  wi t h  F AANG compan i e s  an d I
r uni ntervi ewsand I don't see t h ese puzzle que stio n s . I  se e  peo pl e looking
forbas ic s and look in g into prob lem solv in g  andhintsthat c andidat e s  h a ve
don e go odwork befo re.  G r anted,I' ve seen t hat

but refusing_to hire_good people.

------
onion2k
I read "__You must_have_10 years_experience_of <tech>_" as_shorthand for "
_Have_you stopped learning new_things? Come and_work_here._ "

~~~
chrisseaton
That's ridiculous. Why does learning new technology mean you need to stop
using the_old_technology?

~~~
onion2k
It doesn't,_obviously._My_point was about how companies_advertise jobs. A
company advertising a_job with_a requirement of 10 years experience in a
technology_wants_someone who's able_to tackle pretty much any problem from the
outset. _They're_not open to people learning._

------
mrmrcoleman
A major_GPS navigation company_hired_me_for a job I_wasn't ready for in 2006
when I_was 24 years old. It was_my first job at a big company.

I'm_pretty sure I got through because_they were growing way too_fast and_I
slipped through the process somehow.

Being_dropped into the_deep end_and surrounded by_smart and experienced people
was incredible for_me. It took_me a while to get up-to-speed_but_when I did
I'm_sure_I_more than_repaid their investment.

------
honkycat
I_can't_disagree with_this_person more.

More than anything have learned_that_education and training are hugely
important and hiring_to train leads to_mediocre_staff who think their_two
years of development work stack_up to your 4 years of_college and_6 years_of
professional experience.

They take forever to start writing productive code, if they_ever bother
leaning at all.

I will never_hire someone without a_degree or_equivalent_experience again.
Even for_Jr._roles

~~~
nil_pointer
This strategy_may weed out duds, but it will_also occasionally_overlook great
people. One of the brightest_engineers I know dropped_out_of high school and
got a GED,_but was obsessed with tech and_practiced building things daily.
He's 30_and_a_VP now.

------
grigjd3
This feels a bit_like a strawman. I've interviewed with_FAANG companies and_I
run interviews and I don't see these_puzzle_questions. I see people looking
for basics_and_looking into problem solving and hints_that_candidates_have
done good work before. Granted,_I've seen that