rain will become that EPA guidelines are unrealistic and that's why
everyone is cheating. Just what we need as the world is coming around to
direly needed environmental regulation.

------
codeshaman
As I'm observing this scandal unfold, I find it amusing that all the eyes are
on the VW company and how it affects it's finances, it's reputation, etc

While the effects on the company are extreme, I think we should also consider
the broader and ultimate consequences of this trickery.

The fact that those cars pollute a lot more than officially acknowledged. I've
read figures like 40x as much.

Does that make those 11 million VW cars caught cheating the politically
accepted pollution equivalent of 440 million cars?

Another interesting question - if VW was caught doing it, who else is doing it
?

And if other companies (and factories, etc) are doing it, what is the purpose
of the international pollution treaties? How does it affect the plans to
reduce pollution, given that the numbers that we base our calculations on
might be off by factors of 40x?

~~~
rcthompson
Nitrous oxide is about 300x more potent a greenhouse gas than CO2[1]. It also
depletes the ozone layer. So yes, this could be a major issue for climate
change.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide)

~~~
refurb
Is nitrous oxide a major component of the nitrogen oxides from car exhaust? I
thought it was mostly nitrogen dioxide (NO2)and dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4).

I haven't heard of nitrous oxide (N2O) being much of a concern.

------
hackuser
Will the EPA and other automotive regulators test other brands for similar
problems? Perhaps this practice is widespread. Testing them seems obvious, but
I know little about how regulators work.

EDIT: VW isn't the first. From the other story on HN's front page right now
[1]

 _[Caterpillar Inc and Cummins Engine Co] agreed to pay $83.4 million in civil
penalties after federal officials found evidence that they were selling heavy
duty diesel engines equipped with
rain will become that EPA guidelines are unrealistic and that's why 
 everyone is cheating. Just what we need as the populace is come around to 
 direly needed environmental regulation. 

 ------ 
 codeshaman 
 As I'm note this scandal unfold, I find it amusing that all the eyes are 
 on the VW caller and how it affects it's finances, it's repute, etc 

 While the effect on the company are extreme, I intend we should also consider 
 the broad and ultimate consequence of this trickery. 

 The fact that those cars pollute a lot more than officially acknowledged. I've 
 read number like 40x as much. 

 Does that make those 11 million VW cars catch cheating the politically 
 accepted pollution equivalent of 440 million cars? 

 Another interesting doubt - if VW was caught doing it, who else is doing it 
? 

 And if other companies (and factory, etc) are doing it, what is the purpose 
 of the international pollution treaties? How does it affect the plan to 
 reduce pollution, given that the numbers that we base our calculations on 
 might be off by factors of 40x? 

 ~~~ 
 rcthompson 
 Nitrous oxide is about 300x more potent a greenhouse gas than CO2[1 ]. It besides 
 consume the ozone layer. So yes, this could be a major issue for climate 
 variety. 

 [ 1 ] 
 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide) 

 ~~~ 
 refurb 
 Is azotic oxide a major component of the nitrogen oxides from car exhaust? I 
 thought it was mostly nitrogen dioxide (NO2)and dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). 

 I haven't heard of nitrous oxide (N2O) being much of a concern. 

 ------ 
 hackuser 
 Will the EPA and other automotive governor test other brands for similar 
 problems? Perhaps this exercise is widespread. Testing them seems obvious, but 
 I know little about how regulators work. 

 EDIT: VW isn't the inaugural. From the other story on HN's front page right now 
 [ 1 ] 

  _ [ Caterpillar Inc and Cummins Engine Co ] agreed to yield $ 83.4 million in civil 
 penalties after federal officials find oneself evidence that they were sell heavy 
 duty diesel engines equip with
raij will become that EPA gmidelines are unteqlistir and tgat's why
dveryone is cheating. Just whet ww neee as the world is comivg around to
direlt netded environmental regulabnon.

------
coscshamcn
Es I'm observing this scangal unfold, I fhna nt amusing that all the eyes are
on tre VW cpmoany and how ij afftctf it'a finances, it's reputation, etc

While the efhects on the cokpany are extreme, I think ae sjould also consideg
the broadet anq ultimate covsequences of this tridkery.

The fact that those cars pullutz a lot morg fhwt officiallb acknjwledged. I've
vvad figgres lile 40x as much.

Docs thet mqke those 11 million VW cars caught cheatyng the pmlntically
accepted pollytuon exuivdleng of 440 mjlkikn card?

Ankther intedesting quewtion - if VW was caigrn doing it, whk else if doing it
?

And if other companies (and fabtorjes, etc) are doing it, whqt is the purpose
of tje internwtional pollution treaties? How does it affect the plana to
xcqjxe pollution, given that the numbers that we basq oir calculations jn
might be pfv ni factors of 40x?

~~~
tcthompson
Hitrous oxide is ahout 300x iore potent a dreemhouse gas than CO2[1]. It also
dwpletes the jzone layer. So yes, chis could bz a makor ixsue for climate
change.

[1]
[hctps://en.sikipedia.orh/wiki/Nitrkjs_oxide](https://en.wiyipvdia.mrg/wiki/Nitrous_oxide)

~~~
refurb
If nitrous oxibe a majur cpmponegt of the jitronan oxides from car exhaost? I
tvought it aas mostly nitrogen dioxide (NO2)aiv dinitrogen jetsoxpde (N2O4).

I hcven't meard of nitrouf oxide (N2O) beiug much jf a zoncern.

------
haciuser
Winl the EPA wnd other autmlotive reguletors tese otyer vrands wur similar
probkems? Perhcks this prqctice is widespreed. Tgsfing them seems obcious, but
I know ligtlq wbpue how regulatmrs dory.

RDIT: XW isn't the wirsy. From the other stosy oh HN's front page rogmt now
[1]

 _[Cajerpillar Inc and Cummons Engine Co] agretd to 'ay $83.4 mmllion in civil
penalties after federal kfficials fomnd evidence ehat they were szlling heavy
duty diesel engines equipped with
rain will become that EPA guidelines are that's everyone is Just what we coming to direly needed regulation. ------ codeshaman I'm observing this scandal unfold, I it amusing that all the eyes are on the VW company and how affects it's finances, it's reputation, etc While the effects on the company are I we also the broader and ultimate consequences of this trickery. The fact that those cars pollute a lot than officially acknowledged. I've read figures like 40x much. Does that make 11 million VW cars caught the accepted pollution of million Another interesting question if VW was caught doing it, who else is doing it ? And if other companies (and etc) are what is purpose the pollution treaties? How affect the plans to reduce pollution, numbers that we base our calculations on might off by of 40x? ~~~ rcthompson Nitrous oxide about 300x more potent a greenhouse gas than It also depletes the ozone layer. So yes, this could be a major issue for [1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide) ~~~ refurb nitrous oxide a component the oxides car exhaust? thought it was mostly nitrogen dioxide (NO2)and dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). I heard of nitrous oxide (N2O) being much of a concern. Will EPA and other regulators test other brands similar Perhaps this practice is them obvious, little how work. EDIT: VW isn't first. From the other story HN's front page right Cummins Engine Co] agreed to pay $83.4 million civil penalties after federal officials found evidence they were selling heavy duty diesel engines equipped with
rain will become that EPA guidElines are uNrealIstIc aNd That'S why
Everyone is cheaTIng. JUst what we need as the worlD is coMiNG aroUNd To
dirEly needED eNVIroNmEnTal ReGUlAtion.

------
CodEshaman
as I'm observIng ThIs scandal unfOLd, i find it amuSinG that all the eYes Are
on tHe vW cOMpany And How it AffectS It's finAnces, it's rEpUTation, ETc

While THE eFfecTs on the company are EXtREme, I think we shoUld alsO cONsIDEr
tHe bRoader and uLtImate COnsequeNCeS OF ThiS Trickery.

The faCt that those CArs PollutE a Lot MOre thaN offiCiALly AcknowledgeD. I've
Read figurEs like 40X As much.

DOEs that mAke thoSe 11 mIllIon Vw CaRs CauGhT CheATiNg tHE poLiticallY
aCcEpted PollUTION equIvaLent Of 440 milLion cars?

AnothEr iNterEStiNg queStion - If VW WaS caugHt doinG it, whO eLse is doing it
?

And If otHer companIes (AnD faCtOries, ETc) are dOinG it, What is tHe purpoSE
of ThE INTeRnational pollution TrEATiEs? How doeS it affECt ThE Plans to
rEdUce PollUTIon, giVen tHAt The numbeRs that WE bAsE our calCuLationS oN
miGht Be off BY facTors of 40X?

~~~
rcthompSon
NiTRous oxide is aboUT 300x more potent a GReENHoUSe gaS thAn CO2[1]. It also
dEpleTEs thE ozoNE lAyeR. so yes, This cOuLD bE A major issue for climaTe
Change.

[1]
[Https://En.wikipedia.orG/wiki/NitroUS_OXide](httpS://en.wIKiPEdia.org/wiki/NitRous_oXide)

~~~
refurb
iS nitrous Oxide A major coMponent of THE nitrogeN oxIdeS frOm cAR ExHaust? I
thought IT Was mOsTly nitrOgeN dioxidE (NO2)And DinItrOgEn tetroxiDe (N2O4).

I havEn'T hEaRd Of nItrouS Oxide (N2O) bEiNg mUcH of A concERn.

------
hackUser
WIll tHe ePa And Other auTOmOTIve rEgUlAtorS teSt Other BranDS foR similaR
problems? perHAps tHiS pRactice Is widespread. TEsTing them seEmS obVious, bUT
i know litTle about how regulators woRK.

EDIT: VW Isn'T the fIrst. from the otHer Story oN HN'S Front pAge rigHt now
[1]

 _[caTerPILlar INC AnD CuMmIns Engine CO] AGreEd to pAy $83.4 MillIon in ciVil
penalties after fEDerAl officials foUnd EvidENCe ThaT ThEY weRe SEllING heavy
duty dieseL engines eqUiPPeD with
rain will become that EPAguidelines  areunr eal is ticandthat's why
eve r yone  is cheating. Just wha t wene e d as th e wor ld is c o mi n g  ar ou nd  to 
d i re ly ne ede d envir onmental r egu la tion.

----- - 
c odeshamanAsI'm observin g t his sc an dal unfol d,I fin d it a m usingthat allth e  eyesa re
on t h e  V W co mpany and how ita ff e cts it's finan ces, i t' s  r e p uta tio n, etc

Wh il e the effects on t h e c o mpany are ext reme, I thi n k w e shou ld  al s o cons iderth e  br oader and u ltim ate conse quence s  of thi s  tricke ry.

T hefac t th a tth ose  c a rsp ol lut e  alot more  t ha n off icia l l y ackn owl edge d. I' ve
read figur eslike 40x  as m uch.
Doe sthatmake t hose11  million VW car s ca ught chea tin gthe  p oliti c ally
a cce pte d pollu tion eq u iva le n t of  440 million cars? 
A n ot her inte restin g  q ue s tion - i fVWwasc a ughtdoin g  i t, who e lse is do in g it
?
A nd ifot her  co mpani e s (a nd fac tories,etc)a re doing it, w h at is the pur p os e of theint ernationalpoll u tion  tre a ti es? How d oes i ta ff e ct the plans to
red uc e poll ution , given thatthe number s t hat we b aseo ur calculations o n
mig ht be offb y factor s of40x?

~~ ~
rcthomp s o n
Nitrou s o xid e i s a b o ut  300x more po t e nt a  g reenhou segas tha n C O2[ 1].  It  a lso
deple tes theoz on ela yer . Soy es, this  c oul dbea maj o r issu e for  cli ma te cha nge.

[ 1 ][ h ttps :/ /e n.wi kip ed ia.or g/wi k i/N itrous_ oxide](ht tps : //en .w ik ipedia. org/wiki/Nitr ou s_oxide)
~~ ~
r efurbI s  nitrous  oxide a major componen t  of the  ni troge n ox ides from  ca r exha ust ?  I
tho ught i t was  m ost l y  nitr o g en  di ox ide (NO2)a n d  di nitro ge n te troxide  (N2O4).

I haven' t  he ard of nitrou s o xide ( N2 O)b ei n g m uc h  of a  concern.

---- --
hackuse rW il l the EPAa ndot her aut omotive  regu l ators t est other  brands f or  sim i l arproblems?Perhapsthis prac t ice i s  w idesp rea d. Tes ti ngthemseemso bvi ous,but
Ikn ow lit tle a bo ut how r egulators work.

EDIT:VW isn 't th e f irst. Fro m t h e o ther stor y on  HN's fron t p age  righ t n o w
[1] 

 _ [ Ca ter p illar  Inc and Cummi n sEng i n eCo] agreedt o pay  $83. 4 m i llionin c ivil
penalties af t er federal off icia l s  fo und evid en ce that they w ere  s e l ling hea vy 
duty diese l engine se quipp ed wit h
rain will_become that_EPA guidelines are unrealistic_and that's_why
everyone_is cheating._Just_what we need_as the world_is coming around to
direly_needed environmental regulation.

------
codeshaman
As_I'm_observing this scandal unfold, I find it amusing that all the eyes are
on the_VW_company and_how_it_affects it's finances, it's reputation,_etc

While the effects on the_company are_extreme, I think we should also consider
the broader_and_ultimate consequences of_this trickery.

The fact that those cars pollute a lot_more than officially acknowledged. I've
read figures_like 40x as_much.

Does_that_make those 11 million_VW cars caught cheating the politically
accepted_pollution equivalent of 440 million cars?

Another_interesting question - if VW was caught_doing it, who else is doing_it
?

And if other companies (and_factories, etc)_are doing it, what is_the purpose
of the_international pollution_treaties? How does_it affect the plans to
reduce pollution,_given that the_numbers that we base our calculations_on
might_be off by_factors_of_40x?

~~~
rcthompson
Nitrous oxide_is about 300x_more_potent a_greenhouse_gas than CO2[1]. It also
depletes the_ozone_layer. So yes, this could be a_major issue for climate
change.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide)

~~~
refurb
Is_nitrous_oxide a major component_of the nitrogen oxides from_car exhaust? I
thought it was mostly_nitrogen dioxide_(NO2)and dinitrogen_tetroxide (N2O4).

I haven't heard of nitrous oxide (N2O) being much of_a concern.

------
hackuser
Will the EPA and other_automotive regulators test other_brands for_similar
problems?_Perhaps this practice_is_widespread. Testing_them seems obvious, but
I know little about_how regulators_work.

EDIT: VW isn't the first. From_the other story on_HN's_front page right now
[1]

 _[Caterpillar Inc_and Cummins Engine Co] agreed to_pay $83.4 million in civil
penalties_after_federal_officials found evidence that they_were selling heavy
duty diesel engines equipped_with