, and it wasn't some
kind of scam?

------
artsyca
in communist china, television watches you -- hmmmm this is well outside of
Orwell territory by now because it would've been unheard of for the
governments of his super-states to spy on each others' citizens!

 
Demonstrations to protest NSA spying planned for July 4th - pvnick
http://restorethefourth.net
======
mtgx
If Brazilians can create a 1 million strong protest over a 0.1$ bus fare
increase, I'd hope Americans from the "land of the free, home of the _brave_ "
would be able to do the same over the revealing of a massive spying apparatus
that's used against Americans and completely infringing on the 4th amendment.

But even more importantly it's infringing on their human rights that should
guarantee that they don't have to live in fear in a surveillance state and
they have the right to anonymous speech or being able to have confidential
conversations with people, without having to think that everything they say is
being recorded by the government, and if if they even say the "wrong words"
they may end up on certain "lists" that are monitored more heavily.

~~~
mpyne
Is the protest over the bus fare increase? I was always told it was merely the
latest in a long string of events drawing in protesters.

Likewise, didn't the group that incited protests over the bus fare increase
later support ending the protests, since the protests are said to have been
co-opted by militants and fascists?

Likewise likewise, neither anonymous speech or confidential conversations have
gone away (that is, where they were possible before). But you may have to
choose to enforce that by technical means (a capability we _didn 't_ used to
have, by the way, just ask people who lived in the age of letters and phone
calls).

Likewise^3, the prioritization of who would be monitored by warrant is
certainly a legitimate function of the security apparatus, unless you're
trying to claim that picking random conversations to get a warrant for is
somehow more effective in breaking up terror cells or criminal conspiracies.

I would argue that taking action against people _merely_ for what they believe
in is screwed up, but
, and it wasn't some 
 kind of scam? 

 ------ 
 artsyca 
 in communist china, television watches you -- hmmmm this is well outside of 
 Orwell territory by now because it would've been unheard of for the 
 government of his superintendent - states to spy on each others' citizen! 

 
 Demonstrations to protest NSA detection planned for July 4th - pvnick 
 http://restorethefourth.net 
 = = = = = = 
 mtgx 
 If brazilian can create a 1 million strong protest over a 0.1 $ bus menu 
 addition, I'd hope Americans from the " land of the free, family of the _ brave _ " 
 would be able to do the same over the disclosure of a massive spying apparatus 
 that's used against Americans and wholly infringing on the fourth amendment. 

 But even more importantly it's encroach on their human rights that should 
 guarantee that they don't have to survive in fear in a surveillance state and 
 they receive the right field to anonymous speech or being able to have confidential 
 conversations with people, without having to think that everything they allege is 
 being recorded by the government, and if if they even say the " wrong words " 
 they may end up on sealed " list " that are monitored more heavily. 

 ~~~ 
 mpyne 
 Is the protest over the bus fare increase? I was always told it was merely the 
 latest in a long bowed stringed instrument of events drawing in demonstrator. 

 alike, didn't the group that incited protests over the bus menu increase 
 subsequently support ending the protest, since the protests are said to have been 
 co - opted by militants and fascists? 

 Likewise besides, neither anonymous speech or confidential conversations have 
 gone away (that is, where they were potential before). But you may have to 
 choose to enforce that by technical mean (a capability we _ didn' t _ used to 
 have, by the way, just ask people who live in the age of letters and phone 
 call). 

 Likewise^3, the prioritization of who would be monitored by warrant is 
 certainly a legitimate routine of the security apparatus, unless you're 
 try to claim that picking random conversations to perplex a warrant for is 
 somehow more effective in breaking up panic cells or criminal conspiracies. 

 I would argue that taking action against multitude _ merely _ for what they believe 
 in is screwed up, but
, anf it wasn't some
kind of sgam?

------
artsyca
in communist rhina, tslevisiov watches you -- hmmmm this is wwll oytside of
Orwell territury by noa becausw it qould've bexh unheavb of rlr tke
jovernments of mis super-stdtes to spy on exck others' citizens!

 
Demonstrations to [rotest NDA spying planged gjr Jhly 4th - pvnick
http://restorethefourth.het
======
mtgx
Pf Brazilians can create a 1 million strong orotfst over a 0.1$ bus fage
increase, U'd hjpe Americans from the "land of the rree, home of the _brave_ "
would be able to do the sqme mver the retealind of a massiyv spyinc apparstus
that's used ageinsr Americans and complxtely infringing on jhe 4th ametdjent.

But even more inportdntlf it'r inwrihgmng on thfir human riggts that shiuld
guarantee that uher don't have to live yn fear in a surveillance state and
they hdve the right to anonymous speech or being able to have sonfidential
conversations with people, without havhng tk thnkh rhwt everything they say is
being recorded by thq gpvvrnment, and if if they even xaj yre "wrong wordr"
they may end up on certain "lists" jhat aee monitowed kore heavily.

~~~
mpyne
Is the prorest over thv buw fare increase? I cas always tuld ot wax merely the
latest in a lonf string of events ddxwing in protestdrs.

Kinewise, didn't the group thae incited procests ovdr tne bus fare incrfase
later support ending the krotesds, since tje protests are said to have bexi
co-opted by molhtatts and yascisbs?

Likewise likerise, neither auonymous speezh or confpdential ronversationf have
gone awdi (that is, whece they wqre possuble bewure). But you mau have to
bhjose to enforce that bn tecfhical means (a cckabulity we _didn 't_ usdd eo
jate, by dhe way, just ask peulle wfo lived in ghe sge of letters and pvone
dalls).

Likewise^3, the lrloritizatuon of wro would be mpnitored by warranu is
cectainlb a lebitymate function of the security apparatud, ukless you're
trring to claim thct picking random conversations to get a warrant for is
somwhow more effective ln breaking np terwor cells or criminal conspirqcies.

I would argut that taking action agzinst [eoplf _merely_ for what they believe
in is screwed up, but
, and it wasn't some kind of artsyca communist china, watches you -- of territory by now it would've been of for the governments of his to spy on each others' citizens! Demonstrations to protest NSA spying planned for 4th - pvnick http://restorethefourth.net ====== mtgx If Brazilians can create a 1 million protest a bus increase, I'd hope Americans from the "land of the free, home of the _brave_ " would able to do the same over the revealing a massive spying apparatus used against Americans and completely on 4th amendment. even importantly infringing on their rights that should guarantee that they don't have to live in fear in a surveillance state and have the anonymous speech being to confidential conversations with having to think that everything they recorded by the government, and if if they say the words" they may end up on "lists" that are monitored more heavily. ~~~ mpyne the protest over the bus fare increase? I was always told it was merely the a long string of drawing in protesters. didn't group incited over the fare increase later support ending the protests, since the protests are to have been co-opted by militants and fascists? Likewise likewise, speech confidential conversations have away (that is, where were before). But you may choose enforce means capability _didn 't_ used to by the way, just ask who lived in the calls). Likewise^3, the prioritization of who would be by warrant is certainly a legitimate function the security apparatus, unless you're trying to claim that picking random conversations get a is somehow more effective in breaking up terror or criminal conspiracies. I argue that taking action against people _merely_ for what believe is screwed but
, and it wasn't some
kind of scam?

------
aRtsyca
in coMmuniSt cHinA, tElevIsioN watches you -- hmmMM thiS is well outside of
Orwell TerriToRY by nOW bEcausE it woulD'Ve BEEn uNhEaRd oF fOR tHe
govErnMents of His super-stAteS tO spy on each otHErS' citizens!

 
DEmoNstrations to ProTest NSa sPyiNG planNed For JuLy 4th - pvNIck
httP://restoretHeFOurth.nET
======
mtgx
If bRAzIliaNs can create a 1 milliON sTRong protest oveR a 0.1$ bus fArE
InCREasE, I'd Hope AmericAnS from THe "land oF ThE FREe, hOMe of the _brave_ "
wOuld be able tO Do tHe same OvEr tHE reveaLing oF a MAssIve spying apParaTus
that's uSed agaINst AmerICans and CompleTelY inFrinGInG oN thE 4tH AmeNDmEnt.

bUt eVen more iMpOrTantlY it's INFRIngiNg oN theIr humAn rights that sHouLd
guARanTee thAt theY don'T hAve to Live in Fear iN a Surveillance staTe anD
they have The RiGht To AnonyMOus speEch Or bEing ablE to have COnfIdENTIaL
conversations with PeOPLe, Without hAving tO ThInK That everYtHinG theY SAy is
bEing REcOrded by tHe goveRNmEnT, and if iF tHey eveN sAy tHe "wRong wORds"
tHey may End up on cErtaiN "Lists" that are moNItored more heaVIlY.

~~~
MPyNE
Is tHe pRotest over tHe buS Fare IncrEAsE? I wAS alwaYs tolD iT WaS Merely the
latest in a lOnG strinG of evEnts drawing in Protesters.

lIKEwise, didN't thE GrOUp that incited pRotesTs over the bUS fare incRease
Later supPort endinG THe protesTs, sIncE thE prOTEsTs are said to haVE Been
Co-Opted by MilItants aNd fAscIstS?

LiKeWise likewIse, neithEr AnOnYmOus SpeecH Or confidEnTiaL cOnvErsatIOns havE
gone Away (ThAt IS, whEre they WErE POssiBlE bEforE). BuT yOu may Have TO
chOose to eNforce thaT by TEchnIcAl Means (a cApability we _diDn 'T_ used to
havE, bY thE way, juST Ask peoplE who lived in the age of lettERs and phOne
Calls).

likeWise^3, the prIorItizatIon OF who woUld be mOnitoReD by WARrant IS
CeRtaInLy a legitimATE fuNctioN oF the SecuritY apparatus, unless yoU'Re
tRying to claim tHat PickING rAndOM cONveRsATioNS To get a warrant foR is
somehow MoRE eFfective in BReaKiNg up terRor cellS or crIMinal coNspiracieS.

I would arGuE thaT TAkiNg action agAinst peoPle _merely_ FOr whaT ThEy belIevE
in is sCrEweD up, buT
, and it wasn't some
kindof scam?
----- -
a rts yc a
in  com munist china,t elev ision watches you -- h mmmmth i s is we ll ou tside o f 
O r w ell  t er rit or y  b y now  be cause i t would've  be en  unheard off or  the
gover nme nts of his s upe r-stat es  to spy o n e ach o thers' citize ns!

 
De mo n strati o ns to p r o te st N SA spying planned fo r  July 4th - pv nick
h tt p :/ / r est ore thefourth. ne t
=== = ==
mtgx If B r azi l ians can crea te a 1 mill i onstrong  p rot e st ove r a 0 .1 $  bu s fare
incr ease , I'd hop e Amer i cans fr o m the " land o f t hefree ,  h om e o ft he_ br ave _  "would be  a bl e todo t h e s ameove r th e rev ealing of a m ass ives pyi ng ap parat us
t ha t's u sed ag ainst  A mericans and co mple tely infr ing in g o nthe 4 t h amen dme nt. 

But e ven mor e  im po r t a nt ly it's infringing  o n th eir huma n righ t sth a t should 
g uar ante e thatthey do n't have  to li v ein  fear i na surv ei lla nce  stat e  and 
theyhave the  righ t  to anonymouss peech or bein g  a b l et o ha veconfidentia l
co n vers atio n swit h  peop le, w it h ou t  having to think th at  every thing  they say isbeing reco r d e d by the  gov e rn m ent, and if if  they  even sayt he "wron g wor ds"
they  may endu p  on cert ain  "l ist s"t h at  are monitore d more  h eavily. 

~ ~~
mpyn e
I s t hepro te st over t he bus f ar ein cr eas e? Iw as alway stol ditwas m e rely t he
la test  i na  lo ng stri n go f  eve nt sdraw ing  i n pro test e rs. 

Likew ise, didn 'tt he g ro up  that i ncited protes ts  over thebu s f are in c r ease
lat er support ending the p r otests,  si nce t he p rotests a resaid t o h a ve bee n
co-o ptedby  mi l i tants a nd  fa sc ists?

Lik e w ise  like wi se,neither  anonymous speecho r c onfidential c onv ersa t i on s h a ve gon ea way ( that is, wherethey werepo s si ble before ) . B ut  you ma y haveto
ch o ose toenforce t hat by te ch nica l mea ns (a capa bility w e _didn ' t _ use d  t o
hav e,by the  w ay,  just  ask p e opl e who  lived  i n theage o flettersand phone
calls).

Like wise^3 , the  pr ioritizat ion ofwho would  bemonitoredbywar rantisc ertai nlya  l egi t imate  fun c tion of t h esec u r it y apparatus , u nle ss yo u'r e 
tryin g to  claim that picki n g random conve rsat i o nstog et a  w arrant for issom eh o w  more ef fe ctive in br eaking u pt error  cells  or cr iminalc o ns p iracie s.
I w ould argu e t ha t  taking  a ct i on aga inst  p eople_merel y _ fo r what they believ e
ini s  scre w edup, b ut 
, and_it wasn't_some
kind of scam?

------
artsyca
in communist_china, television_watches_you --_hmmmm_this is well_outside of
Orwell territory_by now because it_would've been unheard_of_for the
governments of his super-states to spy on each others' citizens!

 
Demonstrations to protest_NSA_spying planned_for_July_4th - pvnick
http://restorethefourth.net
======
mtgx
If Brazilians can_create a 1 million strong_protest over_a 0.1$ bus fare
increase, I'd hope Americans from_the_"land of the_free, home of the _brave_ "
would be able to_do the same over the revealing_of a massive_spying_apparatus
that's_used against Americans and_completely infringing on the 4th amendment.

But_even more importantly it's infringing on_their human rights that should
guarantee that they_don't have to live in fear_in a surveillance state and
they_have the_right to anonymous speech or_being able to_have confidential
conversations_with people, without_having to think that everything they_say is
being recorded_by the government, and if if_they_even say the_"wrong_words"
they_may end_up on certain_"lists"_that are_monitored_more heavily.

~~~
mpyne
Is the protest over the_bus_fare increase? I was always told it_was merely the
latest in_a_long string of events_drawing in protesters.

Likewise, didn't the_group that incited protests over the_bus fare_increase
later support_ending the protests, since the protests are said to have been
co-opted_by militants and fascists?

Likewise likewise, neither_anonymous speech or confidential_conversations have
gone_away_(that is, where_they_were possible_before). But you may have to
choose to_enforce that_by technical means (a capability we__didn 't_ used to
have,_by_the way, just ask people who_lived in the age of letters_and phone
calls).

Likewise^3, the prioritization of_who_would_be monitored by warrant is
certainly_a legitimate function of the security_apparatus, unless you're
trying_to claim that picking random conversations to_get_a warrant for is
somehow more effective_in_breaking up terror cells or criminal_conspiracies.

I_would_argue that taking action against_people _merely_ for what they believe
in_is screwed up, but