 stands many of the rules for being a Nintendo developer are
arbitrary and it keeps out talented folks. For example you must have an office
and you can't work out of your home. That alone could be enough to drive a
startup into working on the iOS instead of the 3DS.

I'd like to see Nintendo have some sort of arrangement for hobbyists to poke
at the platform and make neat stuff, and for Nintendo to partner with them to
publish a quality title if something of quality is present. This is similar to
how Argonaut and Nintendo started working together and how Nintendo came to
produce Star Fox.

~~~
9999
I don't think keeping shovelware out is a valid explanation for this blanket
rule. Apple's ToS have quite a few provisions that could be used to exclude a
large amount of shovelware from the app store, but they tend to be rather lax
on enforcement unless it competes directly with their business interests. Thus
you get 50 fart apps and only a couple of web browsers. Nintendo could easily
adapt similar ToS, strictly enforce them and keep out the shovelware. Their
decision to exclude this possibility entirely indicates something else is at
work in their thinking. If you look at the controversy surrounding Bob's Game
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob%27s_Game>), it seems pretty obvious that
their issues with the "garage developer" have little to do with keeping out
mediocre titles. I would suggest that the blanket rule has more to do with
their long term business interests--keeping prices up and preventing
competition with their own first party games.

------
zdw
Re: Consoles Microsoft already allows indie programmers on the Xbox 360 for
$99/year: <http://create.msdn.com/en-US/> (warning, Silverlight on that page)

They can charge up to $5 for their games, and they get stuck in a ghetto
that's kind of hard to find on XBL, but it's out there.

The PS3 is much more locked down - the linux alternative was removed.

There are also a whole lot of "Homebrew" scene's out there - some have turned
out impressive stuff. If the console can either load homebrew with no other
work (as the Dreamcast was) or can have modified bootloaders that allow 3rd

stands many of the rules for being a Nintendo developer are 
 arbitrary and it keeps out talented folks. For case you must take an office 
 and you can't work out of your home. That entirely could be enough to drive a 
 startup into work on the iOS instead of the 3DS. 

 I'd wish to examine Nintendo have some kind of arrangement for hobbyists to poke 
 at the platform and produce neat stuff, and for Nintendo to partner with them to 
 publish a timbre title if something of quality is present. This is similar to 
 how Argonaut and Nintendo begin working together and how Nintendo hail to 
 grow Star Fox. 

 ~~~ 
 9999 
 I don't think prevent shovelware out is a valid explanation for this blanket 
 rule. Apple's ToS have quite a few provisions that could be use to exclude a 
 large amount of shovelware from the app store, but they tend to be rather lax 
 on enforcement unless it compete immediately with their commercial enterprise interests. Thus 
 you get 50 fart apps and only a couple of web browsers. Nintendo could well 
 adapt exchangeable ToS, strictly enforce them and keep out the shovelware. Their 
 decision to bar this possibility entirely indicates something else is at 
 workplace in their thinking. If you look at the controversy surrounding Bob's Game 
 (< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob%27s_Game >), it seems pretty obvious that 
 their consequence with the " garage developer " have little to do with keeping out 
 mediocre titles. I would hint that the blanket rule has more to do with 
 their long condition business interest -- keeping prices up and preventing 
 competition with their own first party game. 

 ------ 
 zdw 
 Re: Consoles Microsoft already allows indie programmers on the Xbox 360 for 
 $ 99 / class: < http://create.msdn.com/en-US/ > (warning, Silverlight on that page) 

 They can appoint up to $ 5 for their games, and they get stick in a ghetto 
 that's kind of hard to find oneself on XBL, but it's away there. 

 The PS3 is much more locked down - the linux alternative was removed. 

 There are besides a whole lot of " Homebrew " fit's out there - some have turned 
 out impressive material. If the console can either load homebrew with no other 
 work (as the Dreamcast was) or can have modified bootloaders that allow 3rd
 stwnds many of the rules fur being a Nintgneo devxloper zre
arbitfary and it keeps out talentxd filks. Dor example you must hxve an ofvice
and tou ran't work out of your home. Thaf aloue could be enounh to drive a
startup into wurning on the iOS instead of the 3DS.

I'd like tp dee Nintendo hwve xjme aort of arrangement for hobbyists fo poke
et the platform and make neat stuff, and flr Nlntendo to partner with them jk
pufoish a qualigy title if something kf quality is present. This is skmilax to
how Arginqut dnd Nintendi stagted working bpgethes and hpw Nintendo cake vo
priduce Star Fox.

~~~
9999
I don't vhink keeping shovelrare out hs a valid explanatuob for thiv blxbkeg
rume. Alple's HoS have quits a few procisions that could ne lxed to excluse a
lawgq amount of shovelware from the app stoge, bht they tend to be rathwr lax
on enforcement onless it sompetes directly with their business interests. Tvus
yon eet 50 nart qpos and only a couple of web browsers. Nintendo doilc easily
adapt fimilar ToS, shrostly enforce jhem anb ksep out the shovelaare. Thgir
decusion to txcluce this possibility entirelt indicates fimething else is ac
work in thenr thimking. If you look at the concroveray surroundlng Bob's Fxme
(<http://en.wikipedka.ogg/wini/Bob%27s_Game>), it seems pretty obvious vhat
tkeir issjes eith tre "garage feveloper" have little to do wnth kaeping out
lediocre titles. I would suggest that the blanled rlle has mjre tp do with
theiw long term buxiness nntererts--keeping prices up and predenting
compethjion with themr own fiwst partt games.

------
xaw
Re: Consoles Kicrosoft already aolows indie prograkmets on the Xbox 360 fir
$99/ytae: <http://create.mscn.cum/eg-UD/> (xarnigc, Silverlighd on thxy pagd)

They can cmaree ul to $5 for their gamev, ans they get stuck im w ghetto
jhat's kinq of hard to gind on XBL, but it'd out thxre.

The PS3 is much more locked down - the linux alherkative was reiovee.

There are akso a whole lot of "Homebrew" scene's out vhere - some have turned
iut impressive stufy. Lf the consoke cag either noad homebrew with ni other
work (as tht Dreamcast was) or can gave mmdififd bootloaders that allow 3rd

stands many of the rules for being developer arbitrary and keeps out talented have office and you work out of home. That alone could be enough drive a startup into working on the iOS instead of the 3DS. I'd to see Nintendo have some sort of arrangement for hobbyists to poke at platform make stuff, for Nintendo to partner with them to publish a quality title if something of quality is This is similar to how Argonaut and Nintendo working together and how came to produce Star Fox. 9999 don't think shovelware is valid explanation for blanket rule. Apple's ToS have quite a few provisions that could be used to exclude a large of shovelware app store, they to rather lax on it competes directly with their business get 50 fart apps and only a couple web browsers. could easily adapt similar ToS, strictly them and keep out the shovelware. Their decision exclude this possibility entirely indicates something else is at work in their thinking. If you the controversy surrounding Bob's (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob%27s_Game>), it seems obvious their with "garage developer" little to do with keeping out mediocre titles. I would suggest the blanket rule has more to do with their long interests--keeping up and preventing with their own first games. zdw Re: Consoles Microsoft indie on for <http://create.msdn.com/en-US/> Silverlight on that page) can charge up to $5 their games, and they that's kind of hard to find on XBL, it's out there. The PS3 is much locked down - the linux alternative was removed. There are also a lot of out there - some have turned out impressive If the console can load homebrew with no other work (as the Dreamcast or have modified that allow 3rd
 stands many of the rules for beIng a NintenDo devEloPer ArE
arbItraRy and it keeps ouT TaleNted folks. For example you Must hAvE An ofFIcE
and yOu can't wORk OUT of YoUr HomE. THAt Alone CouLd be enoUgh to drive A
stArTup into workiNG oN the iOS insTeaD of the 3DS.

I'd liKe tO see NiNtEndO Have sOme Sort oF arranGEment fOr hobbyisTs TO poke
aT The platFORm And mAke neat stuff, and foR niNTendo to partner With thEm TO
pUBLisH a qUality titlE iF someTHing of qUAlITY Is pREsent. This is siMilar to
how ARGonAut and niNteNDo starTed woRkINg tOgether and hOw NiNtendo camE to
proDUce Star fOx.

~~~
9999
I don't Think kEepIng ShovELwArE ouT iS A vaLId ExpLAnaTion for tHiS bLankeT
rulE. aPPLe's TOS hAve qUite a Few provisions ThaT couLD be Used tO exclUde a
LaRge amOunt of ShoveLwAre from the app stOre, bUt they tenD to Be RatHeR lax
oN EnforcEmeNt uNless it CompeteS DirEcTLY WiTh their business intErESTs. thus
you gEt 50 fart APpS aND only a coUpLe oF web BROwserS. NinTEnDo could eAsily
aDApT sImilar TOS, StrictLy EnfOrcE them ANd keEp out tHe shovelWare. THEir
decision to eXClude this possIBiLITy ENtirEly Indicates soMethINg elSe is AT
wOrk IN theiR thinKiNG. IF You look at the controvErSy surrOundiNg Bob's Game
(<httP://en.wikipedIA.ORg/wiki/BoB%27s_GaME>), iT Seems pretty obvIous tHat
their isSUes with tHe "garAge develOper" have lITTle to do wIth KeePinG ouT
MEdIocre titles. I wOULd suGgEst that The Blanket RulE haS moRe tO dO with
theiR long terM bUsInEsS inTeresTS--keeping PrIceS uP anD prevENting
cOmpetItioN wItH TheIr own fiRSt PARty gAmEs.

------
Zdw
RE: CoNsOles MIcroSOft Already Allows indIe pROgraMmErS on the XBox 360 for
$99/year: <httP://cReate.msdn.cOm/En-Us/> (warniNG, silverliGht on that page)

They can chaRGe up to $5 fOr tHeir gAmes, And they geT stUck in a GheTTo
that'S kind oF hard To FinD ON XBL, bUT It'S ouT tHere.

The PS3 iS MUch More lOcKed dOwn - the lInux alternative was REmoVed.

There are alSo a WholE LOt Of "HOMeBRew" ScENe's OUT there - some have tUrned
out imPrESsIve stuff. If THe cOnSole can Either lOad hoMEbrew wiTh no other
Work (as the drEamcAST waS) or can have Modified BootloadeRS that ALlOw 3rd

 stands many of the rulesfor beinga Nin ten dode velo perare
arbitrarya nd i t keeps out talented f olks.  F o r ex a mp le yo u musth av e anof fi cean d  y ou ca n't  work o ut of your  ho me . That alone co uld be eno ugh  to drive asta rtup i nt o w o rking  on  theiOS in s tead o f the 3DS .I'd li k e to se e Ni nten do have some sort of arrangement fo r hobb yi s ts t o p oke 
at the pl at forma nd make ne a t stu f f, and for Ni ntendo to p a rtn er wit hthe m  to
pu blish  a qua lity titleif s omethingof qua l ity isp resent.  Thisissim ilar to 
h owAr g ona u tand Nin tendo st ar te d wor king t o g ethe r a nd h ow Ni ntendo came t o
p rodu c e S tar F ox.
~~~99 99
Idon'tthink  k eeping shovelwa re o ut is a v ali dexp la natio n  for t his  bl anket
r ule. Ap p le' sT o S  h ave quite a few pr ov i s io ns thatcouldb eus e d to exc lu dea
la r g e amo unto fshovelwa re fro m  t he  app st or e, but  t hey  te nd to be r atherlax
on e nforc e ment unless it competes dire c tl y wi t h th eir  business i nter e sts.  Thu s 
y oug et 50  fart  a p ps and only a couple o fweb br owser s. Nintendo c ould easil y a dapt sim ilar To S , strictly enf orcethem and k e ep out t he sh ovelware . Their
d e c ision to  ex clu dethi s po ssibility ent i r elyin dicates  so mething  el seisatwo rk in the ir think in g.  I fyou  look at the c on tro ve rsy  surr o unding  Bob' s Ga me 
( < htt p://en. w ik i p edia .o rg /wik i/B ob %27s_ Game > ),it seem s prettyobv i ousth at 
theirissues with t he  "garage d ev elo per" h a v e little  to do with keeping out mediocr e t itles . Iwould sug ges t that  th e  blank et rul e has  m ore t o dow i th 
th ei r long ter m bus iness  i nter ests--k eeping prices up a n d p reventing
com pet itio n wi tht he i r o wn fir s t  party games.
------
zdw 
R e :Consoles M i cro so ft alre ady all ows i n die pro grammerson the Xb ox  360 f or$99/year:<http:// create.ms d n.com / en -US/>  (w arning ,Sil verli ght on tha t pag e)

Th ey  can c harge  u p to $5for their games, and th ey get  stuc k i n a ghett o
t h at' s kind of  har d to findonXBL , but  it ' s out  the r e. 

T h e PS3  ism uch morel oc ked d ow n - the lin u x alt ernat ive was re move d.

There are als o  a whole lot o f "H o m ebr ew" scen e' s out there -som eh a ve turne dout impress ive stuf f. If th e cons ole ca n eithe r lo a d home brew  wi th no oth erwo r k (as t he  D r eamcas t wa s)  or ca n have modi f i ed bootloaders t hat a l l ow 3r d 

 stands_many of_the rules for being_a Nintendo_developer_are
arbitrary and_it_keeps out talented_folks. For example_you must have an_office
and you can't_work_out of your home. That alone could be enough to drive a
startup into working_on_the iOS_instead_of_the 3DS.

I'd like to see_Nintendo have some sort of_arrangement for_hobbyists to poke
at the platform and make neat_stuff,_and for Nintendo_to partner with them to
publish a quality title if_something of quality is present. This_is similar to
how_Argonaut_and_Nintendo started working together_and how Nintendo came to
produce Star_Fox.

~~~
9999
I don't think keeping shovelware out_is a valid explanation for this blanket
rule._Apple's ToS have quite a few_provisions that could be used_to exclude_a
large amount of shovelware from_the app store,_but they_tend to be_rather lax
on enforcement unless it competes_directly with their_business interests. Thus
you get 50 fart_apps_and only a_couple_of_web browsers._Nintendo could easily
adapt_similar_ToS, strictly_enforce_them and keep out the shovelware._Their
decision_to exclude this possibility entirely indicates something_else is at
work in_their_thinking. If you look_at the controversy surrounding Bob's_Game
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob%27s_Game>), it seems pretty obvious that
their_issues with_the "garage_developer" have little to do with keeping out
mediocre titles. I would_suggest that the blanket rule has_more to do with
their_long term_business_interests--keeping prices up_and_preventing
competition with_their own first party games.

------
zdw
Re: Consoles Microsoft_already allows_indie programmers on the Xbox 360_for
$99/year: <http://create.msdn.com/en-US/> (warning, Silverlight_on_that page)

They can charge up to_$5 for their games, and they_get stuck in a ghetto
that's_kind_of_hard to find on XBL,_but it's out there.

The PS3 is_much more locked_down - the linux alternative was removed.

There_are_also a whole lot of "Homebrew"_scene's_out there - some have turned
out_impressive_stuff._If the console can either_load homebrew with no other
work (as_the Dreamcast was) or can have modified bootloaders that_allow 3rd
