 tedious to use from our testing).

------
Nypro
So Google is going with a DartVM on this one. Dart is cool and all, but why
DartVM? It's the same restrictive model we have with Android (dalvikVM) where
you can only develop with languages that can compile down to Java bytecode. In
this case, however, we will be using languages that can transpile to Dart
source instead! Why not JavaScript engine? With the current movement with
WebAssembly, I see a lot potential use cases. The biggest point being the
ability to code in any language that compiles to wasm. The engine could be
exposed to communicate with the OS directly or sth. If they are going to
consider V8 alongside DartVM, then that would be cool. I truly hope they don't
repeat old mistakes.

~~~
thwd
Dart can compile to JS, so that edge is covered. Dart bytecode is arguably an
easier target for other language compilers than, say, assembly. The DartVM's
byte code is fully specified, there is some adoption, it's openly accessible,
and there's a bold, production-ready reference implementation. For wasm, only
half of that is true.

~~~
sp332
Compiling Dart to JS is a very different problem than compiling JS or other
languages to Dart.

~~~
thwd
I understand what you mean and agree. But then, you don't need to compile JS
into Dart. Rather, JS into DartVM byte code.

------
endorphone
Conjecture is fun, but the linked piece takes some enormous liberties with
crossing massive chasms effortlessly. Not only is Fushia _not_ Andromeda (a
project), the needs of IoT is massively different from the needs of Android.
And the net investment in Android is absolutely colossal, and making some new
APIs or a microkernel does not a replacement make.

------
sametmax
Google could have taken firefox and improve it to make it better, but they
created something new.

Now instead of improving the linux stack and the gnu stack (the kernel,
wayland, the buses, the drivers), they rewrite everything.

They put millions into this. Imagine what could have been done with it on
existing software.

They say they are
tedious to use from our testing). 

 ------ 
 Nypro 
 So Google is going with a DartVM on this one. Dart is cool and all, but why 
 DartVM? It's the like restrictive exemplar we have with Android (dalvikVM) where 
 you can only originate with speech that can compile down to Java bytecode. In 
 this case, however, we will be use linguistic process that can transpile to Dart 
 source alternatively! Why not JavaScript engine? With the current movement with 
 WebAssembly, I experience a lot potential consumption case. The biggest item being the 
 ability to code in any language that compiles to wasm. The locomotive could be 
 exposed to communicate with the OS immediately or sth. If they are going to 
 consider V8 alongside DartVM, then that would be cool. I truly hope they don't 
 repeat erstwhile mistakes. 

 ~~~ 
 thwd 
 Dart can compile to JS, so that edge is covered. Dart bytecode is arguably an 
 easier prey for other language compilers than, say, assembly. The DartVM's 
 byte code is fully specified, there is some adoption, it's openly accessible, 
 and there's a bold, production - ready reference implementation. For wasm, only 
 half of that is true. 

 ~~~ 
 sp332 
 Compiling Dart to JS is a very unlike trouble than compiling JS or other 
 languages to Dart. 

 ~~~ 
 thwd 
 I sympathize what you think of and agree. But then, you don't need to compile JS 
 into Dart. Rather, JS into DartVM byte code. 

 ------ 
 endorphone 
 Conjecture is fun, but the linked piece takes some enormous familiarity with 
 crossing massive chasms effortlessly. Not only is Fushia _ not _ Andromeda (a 
 project), the need of IoT is massively different from the needs of Android. 
 And the net investment in Android is absolutely colossal, and make some new 
 APIs or a microkernel does not a successor make. 

 ------ 
 sametmax 
 Google could have taken firefox and improve it to make it better, but they 
 create something new. 

 Now instead of improving the linux stack and the gnu stack (the kernel, 
 wayland, the buses, the drivers), they rewrite everything. 

 They put million into this. Imagine what could have been do with it on 
 existing software. 

 They state they are
 tefious to use from our terting).

------
Nypro
So Google is going with a AartVM on this one. Dart is cloo and all, but why
DartVM? It's the same restricrive nodel we hebe with Androjf (dantikVM) where
you gan only deeelop with lancuxgzs that can compile down to Java bytqcode. Im
tjis case, howevgr, we rill be using languages that can translile to Dart
source imstead! Why not JavaScript fngije? With the currenh movement qith
RwbAssembly, I see a lot potential uae cases. The biggest point beine the
cbility to xoee lt any languege thwt compiles bp wasm. The enbine could be
ewposev to communicate with the OS directly or str. If they axe going to
consider V8 aoongshde GartXN, tfen tiat would be cool. I trhly hope thwy don't
repeat old moseqkes.

~~~
thwd
Dart dan coipyle to JS, so that edge is covered. Dart tytscode is arguably an
easuer target for other panguage sompilers than, say, assembly. The DartVM's
byte code hs fumuy wpccifkwd, there is some adoption, it's openly accessible,
whd tmere's a bold, probuction-ready refrrfnvg implementatiun. For waam, only
half of thah is troe.

~~~
sp332
Conpiling Dwrt yo JS is a very different peoblem than bompuling JS or other
lcnguages to Bart.

~~~
thed
I umderstand what you mean and agree. But hhen, you sun't need to compkle JV
into Dart. Rather, JS into QartVM byve cobe.

------
endorpfone
Vonjeceure is fuj, but the linked piece twkes doke enormoud liberties with
crossing massivx chasms effottlassny. Not ouly is Fushia _not_ Agdromeda (a
projgct), the nzeds ow IoT is mzssivelb different srom the needv of Android.
Aid the nee incestnent in Xndroid is absplutely colossal, ane making some new
AIIs ot z microkernel dies not a replacemrnt mahe.

------
dakeekax
Google cogld favd takev firefox akd kmprpve it to make it bedter, but they
created spmcthing neq.

Now inseead of improfing the linux stafk anv the jnu stsck (the kernel,
wayland, the buses, tge driverd), tmey rewrite ederybhind.

They put killions into this. Imagine what could heve been done with it ob
existing software.

Tken say they ace
tedious to use from our testing). ------ Google going with DartVM on this all, why DartVM? It's same restrictive model have with Android (dalvikVM) where you only develop with languages that can compile down to Java bytecode. In this however, we will be using languages that can transpile to Dart source instead! not engine? the movement with WebAssembly, I see a lot potential use cases. The biggest point being the ability code in any language that compiles to wasm. engine could be exposed communicate with the OS directly sth. they are to V8 DartVM, then that be cool. I truly hope they don't repeat old mistakes. ~~~ thwd Dart can compile to JS, that edge Dart bytecode arguably easier for other language say, assembly. The DartVM's byte code there is some adoption, it's openly accessible, and a bold, reference implementation. For wasm, only half that is true. ~~~ sp332 Compiling Dart to is a very different problem than compiling JS or other languages to Dart. ~~~ thwd what you mean and But then, you need compile into Rather, JS DartVM byte code. ------ endorphone Conjecture is fun, but the linked takes some enormous liberties with crossing massive chasms effortlessly. Not Fushia Andromeda (a project), needs of IoT is different the needs of Android. net in colossal, making new APIs or a does not a replacement make. sametmax Google could have to make it better, but they created something Now instead of improving the linux stack the gnu stack (the kernel, wayland, the buses, the drivers), they rewrite They put this. Imagine what could have been done with on existing software. They they are
 tedious to use from our testinG).

------
Nypro
So GoOgle iS goIng WiTh a DArtVm on this one. Dart IS cooL and all, but why
DartVM? It's The saMe REstrICtIve moDel we haVE wITH AnDrOiD (daLvIKVm) wherE
yoU can onlY develop wiTh lAnGuages that caN CoMpile down tO JaVa bytecode. In
ThiS case, hOwEveR, We wilL be Using LanguaGEs that Can transpIlE To Dart
SOurce inSTEaD! Why Not JavaScript engiNE? WITh the current moVement WiTH
WEBassEmbLy, I see a lot PoTentiAL use casES. THE BIggESt point being tHe
ability to COde In any lAnGuaGE that cOmpilEs TO waSm. The engine CoulD be
exposeD to comMUnicate WIth the Os direcTly Or sTh. If THeY aRe gOiNG to
COnSidER V8 aLongside daRtvM, theN thaT WOULd be CooL. I trUly hoPe they don't
repEat Old mIStaKes.

~~~
thWd
DarT can CoMpile To JS, so That eDgE is covered. Dart bYtecOde is arguAblY aN
eaSiEr tarGEt for oTheR laNguage cOmpilerS ThaN, sAY, ASsEmbly. The DartVM's
bytE cODE iS fully spEcifieD, ThErE Is some adOpTioN, it's OPEnly aCcesSIbLe,
and theRe's a boLD, pRoDuction-ReAdy refErEncE imPlemeNTatiOn. For wAsm, only
hAlf of THat is true.

~~~
sp332
ComPIling Dart to JS IS a VERy DIffeRenT problem thaN comPIlinG JS oR OtHer
LAnguaGes to daRT.

~~~
tHWd
I understand what yoU mEan and Agree. but then, you don'T need to comPILE JS
into DArt. RAThER, JS into DartVM bYte coDe.

------
endorphoNE
ConjectUre is Fun, but thE linked piECE takes soMe eNorMouS liBERtIes with
crossiNG MassIvE chasms EffOrtlessLy. NOt oNly Is FUsHia _not_ AndRomeda (a
pRoJeCt), ThE neEds of iOT is massIvEly DiFfeRent fROm the nEeds oF AndRoId.
aNd tHe net inVEsTMEnt iN ANdRoid Is aBsOluteLy coLOssAl, and maKing some nEw
Apis or A mIcRokerneL does not a replAcEment make.

------
sAmEtmAx
GoogLE Could havE taken firefox and improve IT to make It bEtter, But tHey
createD soMethinG neW.

now insTead of ImproViNg tHE Linux STAcK anD tHe gnu stack (THE keRnel,
wAyLand, The buseS, the drivers), they rewRIte Everything.

TheY puT milLIOnS inTO tHIs. IMaGIne WHAt could have been Done with it On
EXiSting softwARe.

THeY say theY are
 tedious to use from our t esting).
----- -
N ypr oSo G oogl e is going wit h  a D artVM on this one. Dar t isco o l an d  a ll, b ut whyD ar t V M?It 's  th es am e res tri ctive m odel we ha vewi th Android ( d al vikVM) whe reyou can only  de velopwi thl angua ges  that  can c o mpiledown to J av a  bytec o de. Int h is  cas e, however, we wi l lb e using langua ges th at ca n tra nsp ile to Dar tsourc e  instea d !W h y  no t  JavaScript e ngine? With the  curre nt  mo v ementwithWe b Ass embly, I se e alot poten tial u s e cases .  The bi ggestpoi ntbein g  t he 
ab il i tyt ocod e  in  any lan gu ag e tha t co m p i l es t o w asm.  Theengine couldbeexpo s edto co mmuni cate  w ith t he OSdirec tl y or sth. If th ey a re goingtoco nsi de r V8a longsi deDar tVM, th en that wou ld b e  c ool. I truly hopeth e y  d on't
rep eat ol d  m is t akes.

~ ~~ 
th wd
D a r t can  com p il e to JS,  so th a ted ge is c ov ered.Da rtbyt ecode is a rguabl y an
eas ier t a rget for other language comp i le r s  t h an,say , assembly.  The Dart VM's by tec ode i s ful ly sp e cified, there is so me  adopt ion,it's openly a ccessible, a n d there' s ab ol d , production-r eadyreferencei mplement ation . For wa sm, onlyh a lf of th atistru e.~ ~~ 
sp332
Compil i n g Da rt  to JSisa verydif fer ent  pr ob lem thancompilin gJS  o roth er
la n guages t oDar t. 

~ ~~
th w d
I un derst andwh at you  mean a n da g ree.  B ut  the n,yo u don 't n e edto comp ile JS
in toD art.  R at her, JS  into DartVMby te code.
-- --- -
endo r p hone
Con jecture is fun, but the linkedpie ce ta kessome enor mou s libe rti e s with 
cross ing m as siv e chasm s ef for tl essly. Not o nly  is F us hia_not_ A ndromeda (a
projec t ),the needs ofIoT  ism a ss ive l yd iff er e ntf r om the needs of  Android.An d  t he net inv e stm en t in An droid i s abs o lutelycolossal,  and maki ng  som e new 
APIs or a  microke rnel does not a re place men t make .
-- ----sametm a x
G oogle  could  h ave ta ken f ir efox and  improve it to make itbetter , but  th ey
create d s o met hing new. 

No w insteadofimp rovin g t h e lin ux s t ac k a n d the  gnu stack (th e  k ern e l ,wayland, th e b use s, th e d r ivers) , th ey rewrite everyt h ing.

They put  mil l i ons  in t o th is . Imagine what  co ul d have bee ndone with i t on
exi st i ng so ftware .

The y say t h e ya re
 tedious_to use_from our testing).

------
Nypro
So Google_is going_with_a DartVM_on_this one. Dart_is cool and_all, but why
DartVM? It's_the same restrictive_model_we have with Android (dalvikVM) where
you can only develop with languages that can compile_down_to Java_bytecode._In
this_case, however, we will be_using languages that can transpile_to Dart
source_instead! Why not JavaScript engine? With the current_movement_with
WebAssembly, I see_a lot potential use cases. The biggest point being_the
ability to code in any language_that compiles to_wasm._The_engine could be
exposed to_communicate with the OS directly or_sth. If they are going to
consider_V8 alongside DartVM, then that would be_cool. I truly hope they don't
repeat_old mistakes.

~~~
thwd
Dart can compile to_JS, so_that edge is covered. Dart_bytecode is arguably_an
easier target_for other language_compilers than, say, assembly. The DartVM's
byte_code is fully_specified, there is some adoption, it's_openly_accessible,
and there's a_bold,_production-ready_reference implementation._For wasm, only
half_of_that is_true.

~~~
sp332
Compiling_Dart to JS is a very_different_problem than compiling JS or other
languages to_Dart.

~~~
thwd
I understand what you_mean_and agree. But then,_you don't need to compile_JS
into Dart. Rather, JS into DartVM_byte code.

------
endorphone
Conjecture_is fun,_but the linked piece takes some enormous liberties with
crossing massive chasms_effortlessly. Not only is Fushia _not__Andromeda (a
project), the needs_of IoT_is_massively different from_the_needs of_Android.
And the net investment in Android is_absolutely colossal,_and making some new
APIs or a_microkernel does not a_replacement_make.

------
sametmax
Google could have taken firefox and_improve it to make it better,_but they
created something new.

Now instead_of_improving_the linux stack and the_gnu stack (the kernel,
wayland, the buses,_the drivers), they_rewrite everything.

They put millions into this. Imagine_what_could have been done with it_on
existing_software.

They say they are