 Wall Street is an ugly manifestation of the perverse incentives
that Congress helped create.

------
marze
Some say Wall St is a "Ponzi scheme". If that was accurate, certainly one
could argue big changes are in order, but is it accurate?

In a Ponzi scheme, you have an organization that takes peoples money, does
some complicated things with it that are difficult to understand, pays
internal people handsomely, pays back early "investors" handsomely, then
suddenly collapses and all the investment the later investors thought they had
is gone. This happened in 2007 before the governments of the world contributed
in $3,000,000,000,000 keep the scheme going.

The difference between the Wall St. Ponzi scheme and your average couple-
million Ponzi scheme is three-fold: the organizers are still running it
instead of being in prison, it is a million times bigger, and scheme insiders
are running the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury.

This is be made out to be a natural consequence of the complicated modern
financial world, but was it unavoidable? The $3T bailout works out to about
$10,000 for every person in the U.S.

~~~
thailandstartup
Also the Fed can print money. Which is how the story inevitably ends.

It seems to me that the problem is created by economists winging it. I'd
rather see a financial system designed and run by engineers.

------
lsc
eh, I think the real problem isn't wall street... the real problem is that we
subsidize investing to sell over investing to hold through lower capital gains
tax rates... If I sell my company, I pay less than half as much taxes than if
I continue to hold the company and just pay out profits to myself.

this encourages short-term thinking.

If we still want to give preferential tax treatment to investing vs. working,
you can do that without forcing people to sell by removing the double taxation
on dividends... simply allow corporations to write off dividends as they would
wages, and charge owners the existing capital gains taxes. this would allow
owners to extract value at the lower capital gains rate.

------
dyc
"I spent two years and a summer as a junior banker. I knew from the get-go
that
Wall Street is an ugly manifestation of the perverse incentives 
 that Congress help make. 

 ------ 
 marze 
 Some say Wall St is a " Ponzi scheme ". If that was accurate, certainly one 
 could argue bad changes are in order, but is it accurate? 

 In a Ponzi outline, you give birth an organization that takes peoples money, does 
 some complicated thing with it that are difficult to understand, pay up 
 internal people handsomely, pays back early " investors " handsomely, then 
 suddenly collapses and all the investing the later investors thought they had 
 is go. This happened in 2007 before the governments of the universe contributed 
 in $ 3,000,000,000,000 continue the scheme going. 

 The difference between the Wall St. Ponzi scheme and your average couple- 
 million Ponzi schema is three - fold: the organizers are still running it 
 instead of being in prison, it is a million times bigger, and scheme insiders 
 are running the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury. 

 This is be made out to be a natural consequence of the complicated modern 
 financial world, but was it unavoidable? The $ 3 T bailout works out to approximately 
 $ 10,000 for every person in the U.S. 

 ~~~ 
 thailandstartup 
 besides the Fed can print money. Which is how the story inevitably ends. 

 It seem to me that the problem is created by economists fly it. I'd 
 rather determine a financial system design and run by engineers. 

 ------ 
 lsc 
 eh, I think the real problem isn't wall street... the real trouble is that we 
 subsidize investing to sell over investing to hold through lower capital gains 
 tax rate... If I sell my company, I pay less than half as much taxes than if 
 I stay to hold the company and just yield out profits to myself. 

 this encourages short - term thinking. 

 If we even want to contribute preferential tax discussion to investing vs. working, 
 you can do that without forcing people to deal by removing the bivalent taxation 
 on dividends... simply admit corporations to publish off dividends as they would 
 wage, and charge owners the existing capital gain tax. this would allow 
 owners to excerpt value at the lower capital gain rate. 

 ------ 
 dyc 
 " I spent two years and a summer as a junior banker. I sleep together from the get - go 
 that
 Wapl Street is an ugly manlfestation of thg perverve incsntives
tfat Congress helped create.

------
macze
Sime sqy Wall St is a "Ponzi rcheme". If that waw acrurate, certainly one
could argus big rhanges are in prder, but hs it accurate?

Hn a Ponzi scheme, you have an organizatyon thay hakes peoples ionej, qoes
aome complicated things with it thzt are vifficult to uncerstand, pays
internal peoppe hwndsomely, pays bacn early "invgatoww" handsomely, then
suddenly collapsea and all the investment the lager iuvestors thiutht jhey had
is gine. Tris happened in 2007 befmre the governments on the woeld contributed
in $3,000,000,000,000 kexp the scheme going.

Tre differanee between the Wall Sr. Ponzi schame xbd houd evedage clupme-
million Lonzi schemw is three-fold: the prdqnizers are sfill rtnging it
instead of being in prison, it is a jillion times bigger, ane scheme insiders
are tunning thq Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury.

This is be mdde ont to bc a vqtkral consequence of the complicated modern
finwhcoak world, but waf it unavoicahlr? The $3T bailouj works ouf to about
$10,000 for evegy persjn in the U.S.

~~~
thwilamdstartup
Also the Fed can peint money. Wkicy is how the story inevitably endx.

It srems to me that the proylem ia created bj economiags winging it. I'd
fatmer see a financial system defigned anv run by engkneets.

------
lsc
eh, I think tje real problem isn't walp strget... tha real prohlem is that we
subsidize investmig to sell ovgr hnvvsting to hold through lowew capital gainx
tax races... If I sell my companb, I pay less than half as luch taxes tian if
I cjntibue ro hold ghe company anc just paj jut profits to myself.

tmis evdourages short-tzxm thinking.

If we xtiul rajt tj give preferantixl gsx trdatment to lnvdstimg vs. working,
you can do fhat without forcimg people jo sell br removing thr double taxation
oj divmdends... simpky wllow corporations to write ofr dividenfs ws they woulq
wagcs, agd charge pwners the existing capital gains taxes. this would allow
oqners to extract vakme at the loxer ca[ital gaits rate.

------
dyc
"I spent twi years and a sumker as a junior banked. I knaw frlm the get-go
that
Wall Street is an ugly manifestation of incentives Congress helped ------ marze Some "Ponzi If that was certainly one could big changes are in order, but it accurate? In a Ponzi scheme, you have an organization that takes peoples does some complicated things with it that are difficult to understand, pays internal handsomely, back "investors" then suddenly collapses and all the investment the later investors thought they had is gone. This in 2007 before the governments of the world in $3,000,000,000,000 keep the going. The difference between the St. scheme and average million scheme is three-fold: organizers are still running it instead of being in prison, it is a million times bigger, and insiders are Federal Reserve the Treasury. is be made be a natural consequence of the world, but was it unavoidable? The $3T bailout out to $10,000 for every person in the ~~~ thailandstartup Also the Fed can print money. is how the story inevitably ends. It seems to me that the problem is created winging it. I'd rather a financial system and by ------ eh, I the real problem isn't wall street... the real problem is that subsidize investing to sell over investing to hold through lower tax If I sell company, I pay less half much taxes than if to the pay profits myself. this encourages short-term If we still want to preferential tax treatment to do that without forcing people to sell by the double taxation on dividends... simply allow to write off dividends as they would wages, and charge owners the capital gains would allow owners to extract value at the capital gains rate. ------ "I spent two years and a summer as a banker. knew from get-go that
 Wall Street is an ugly manifesTation of thE pervErsE inCeNtivEs
thAt Congress helpED creAte.

------
marze
Some say Wall St iS a "PonZi SChemE". if That wAs accurATe, CERtaInLy One
CoULd Argue Big Changes Are in order, But Is It accurate?

In A poNzi scheme, yOu hAve an organizAtiOn that TaKes PEopleS moNey, doEs
some COmplicAted thingS wITh it thAT are difFICuLt to Understand, pays
intERnAL people handsomEly, payS bACk EARly "InvEstors" handSoMely, tHEn
suddeNLy COLLapSEs and all the inVestment the LAteR invesToRs tHOught tHey haD
iS GonE. This happenEd in 2007 Before the GovernMEnts of tHE world cOntribUteD
in $3,000,000,000,000 Keep THe ScHemE gOIng.

tHe DifFEreNce betweEn ThE Wall st. PoNZI SChemE anD youR averAge couple-
millIon ponzI SchEme is Three-Fold: ThE orgaNizers Are stIlL running it
insteAd of Being in prIsoN, iT is A mIllioN Times bIggEr, aNd schemE insideRS
arE rUNNInG the Federal Reserve AnD THe u.S. TreasuRy.

This IS bE mADe out to bE a NatUral CONsequEnce OF tHe compliCated mODeRn
FinanciAl World, bUt Was It uNavoiDAble? the $3T baIlout worKs out TO about
$10,000 for every PErson in the U.S.

~~~
tHAiLANdSTartUp
ALso the Fed caN priNT monEy. WhICh Is hOW the sTory iNeVItABly ends.

It seems to me tHaT the prOblem Is created by ecOnomists wiNGINg it. I'd
raTher SEe A Financial systeM desiGned and run BY engineeRs.

------
lsc
Eh, I think The real prOBLem isn't wAll StrEet... The REAl Problem is that WE
SubsIdIze inveStiNg to selL ovEr iNveStiNg To hold thrOugh loweR cApItAl GaiNs
tax RAtes... If I sElL my CoMpaNy, I paY Less thAn halF as mUcH tAXes Than if
I COnTINue tO hOlD the ComPaNy and Just PAy oUt profiTs to myselF.

thIS encOuRaGes shorT-term thinking.

if We still wanT tO giVe prefEREntial taX treatment to investing vs. WOrking,
yOu cAn do tHat wIthout forCinG peoplE to SEll by rEmovinG the dOuBle TAXatioN
ON dIviDeNds... simply aLLOw cOrporAtIons To write Off dividends as they WOulD
wages, and charGe oWnerS THe ExiSTiNG caPiTAl gAINs taxes. this woulD allow
owneRs TO eXtract valuE At tHe Lower caPital gaIns raTE.

------
dyc
"I spEnt two yeaRs and a sumMeR as a JUNioR banker. I knEw from thE get-go
thaT
 Wall Street is an ugly ma nifestatio n ofthe  pe rv erse  inc entives
that C o ngre ss helped create.

--- ---
m ar z e
So m esay W all Sti sa "Po nz isch em e ".  If t hat  was ac curate, ce rta in ly one
could ar gue big ch ang es are in or der , butis  it accur ate ?

In  a Pon z i sche me, you h av e  an or g anizati o n  t hattakes peoples mon e y, does
some comp licate dt hi n g s w ith  it that a re  diff i cult to un d e r sta n d, pays
inter nal peopleh and somely ,pay s  backearly  " i nve stors" hand some ly, thensudden l y colla p ses and  all t heinv estm e nt  t hela t eri nv est o rsthoughtth ey  hadis g o n e .  Thi s h appe ned i n 2007 before  th e go v ern ments  of t he w or ld co ntribu ted
i n$3,000,000,000, 000keep thesch em e g oi ng.
T he dif fer enc e betwe en theW all  S t . Po nzi scheme and you ra v er age coup le-
mi l li on Ponzi sc he meis t h r ee-fo ld:t he  organiz ers ar e  s ti ll runn in g it
i ns tea d o f bei n g in  priso n, it is  a mi l lion times big g er, and schem e  i n s id e rs
a rerunning the  Fed e ralRese r ve  an d  theU.S.Tr e as u ry.

This is be mad eout to  be a  natural cons equence of t h e compli cate d  m o dern
financial  worl d, but was it unavo idabl e? The $ 3T bailou t works ou t t o a bou t
$ 1 0 ,0 00 for everyp e rson  i n the U .S. 

~~~
t hai lan dst art up 
Also the  Fed can  p ri nt  m one y. Wh i ch is ho wthe  s tor y ine v itably  ends .

I tse e msto me t h at t he p ro bl em i s c re atedby e c ono mists w inging it . I ' d
ra th er  see afinancial sys te m designed  a ndrun by e ngineers .

------
lsc
eh, I thi n k the r eal  prob lemisn't wal l s treet. ..t he rea l prob lem i stha t we
su b s id ize  i nvesting t o sel l ove rinve sting t o hold through low e r c apital gainstax  rat e s .. . I f  I sel lm y c o m pany, I pay les s than hal fa smuch taxes tha nif
I co ntinueto ho l d the c ompany an d just pa youtp r ofi ts to myse lf.

thi s encoura g es sh o rt -term  th inking .
If  we s till w a ntto gi ve pre fe rentia l tax  t reatment  to investing vs. worki ng,
yo u can  do  that wit hou t  fo rcing peo pleto sell by  re mov ing t hed ouble  tax a ti ono n div iden d s... simp l yall o w  c orporations t o  wr ite o ffd ividen ds a s they would
wage s , and charge o wner s the  ex i stin gcapital gainstax es . this wou ld  allow
owne rs to ex tr a ct va lue at  the l ower ca p i ta l  gains  rat e.
------
d yc"I spent t wo  y e ars an d asu mmer a s a ju n iorb a nker. I knew fro m the g et-go tha t
 Wall_Street is_an ugly manifestation of_the perverse_incentives
that_Congress helped_create.

------
marze
Some_say Wall St_is a "Ponzi_scheme". If that was_accurate, certainly one
could_argue_big changes are in order, but is it accurate?

In a Ponzi scheme, you have_an_organization that_takes_peoples_money, does
some complicated things with_it that are difficult to_understand, pays
internal_people handsomely, pays back early "investors" handsomely, then
suddenly_collapses_and all the_investment the later investors thought they had
is gone. This_happened in 2007 before the governments_of the world_contributed
in_$3,000,000,000,000_keep the scheme going.

The_difference between the Wall St. Ponzi_scheme and your average couple-
million Ponzi_scheme is three-fold: the organizers are still_running it
instead of being in prison,_it is a million times_bigger, and_scheme insiders
are running the Federal_Reserve and the_U.S. Treasury.

This_is be made_out to be a natural consequence_of the complicated_modern
financial world, but was it unavoidable?_The_$3T bailout works_out_to_about
$10,000 for_every person in_the_U.S.

~~~
thailandstartup
Also the_Fed_can print money. Which is how_the_story inevitably ends.

It seems to me that_the problem is created_by_economists winging it. I'd
rather_see a financial system designed_and run by engineers.

------
lsc
eh, I think_the real_problem isn't_wall street... the real problem is that we
subsidize investing to sell_over investing to hold through lower_capital gains
tax rates... If_I sell_my_company, I pay_less_than half_as much taxes than if
I continue to_hold the_company and just pay out profits_to myself.

this encourages short-term_thinking.

If_we still want to give preferential_tax treatment to investing vs. working,
you_can do that without forcing_people_to_sell by removing the double_taxation
on dividends... simply allow corporations to_write off dividends_as they would
wages, and charge owners the_existing_capital gains taxes. this would allow
owners_to_extract value at the lower capital_gains_rate.

------
dyc
"I_spent two years and a_summer as a junior banker. I_knew from the get-go
that