 with scale.

You can be a small player and still get fucked over when your sole vendor
increases prices/stops running a service/changes a service drastically/has
large amounts of downtime/etc

If you use standard components that you deploy yourself, you are beholden to
no single provider, and you can even split your hosting between DCs operated
by different companies, to reduce the chances of 'whole-of-org' issues.

Honestly a server vendor should be treated how most people _want_
phone/internet companies to act (dumb pipes): a dumb VM/Physical Host
provider.

------
ponderatul
Hi,

I don't post much, but I read a lot from the content here and haven't seen too
much written about choosing a cloud provider for a SaaS Startup.

It seems to me a critical decision in the life of a startup, that if you get
wrong, can cost you at least a few months of catching-up to get back to your
initial pace.

Does anyone have any similar experiences to share?

 
Docker and Security - mwcampbell
http://blog.docker.io/2014/02/docker-and-security/
======
kogir
Containers are great for isolating trusted applications from one another to
ease deployment, but using them for multi-tenant security is ill advised.

Since all containers share the same kernel, any local privilege escalation
vulnerability in Linux can be used to escape the container. Such
vulnerabilities are much more common than vulnerabilities in mature
hypervisors, so virtualization is the safer choice.

~~~
tptacek
This, and also bear in mind that kernel crypto state, particularly for the
RNG, is shared.

~~~
sneak
Oh, fuck. I hadn't even _thought_ of that. That's disaster.

~~~
SvenDowideit
only if you're expecting containers to somehow be a unicorn that lets you give
people you don't know have your root password. :)

------
aroch
So, does Docker run their blog in its own docker container? If so, it crashed!

~~~
jamtur01
Oops. Looks like a little hiccup but we're back.

------
voltage
with scale. 

 You can be a small player and still get sleep together over when your exclusive vendor 
 increases price / stop running a service / change a service drastically / has 
 bombastic amounts of downtime / etc 

 If you use standard component that you deploy yourself, you are beholden to 
 no single provider, and you can even separate your hosting between DCs operate 
 by different companies, to shrink the chances of' whole - of - org' issues. 

 Honestly a waiter vendor should be treated how most citizenry _ want _ 
 telephone / internet companies to act (dumb pipes ): a dumb VM / Physical Host 
 supplier. 

 ------ 
 ponderatul 
 Hi, 

 I don't post much, but I read a lot from the content here and haven't seen too 
 a lot spell about choosing a cloud provider for a SaaS Startup. 

 It seems to me a critical decision in the life of a startup, that if you get 
 wrong, can cost you at least a few calendar month of catching - up to get back to your 
 initial yard. 

 Does anyone have any similar experiences to share? 

 
 Docker and Security - mwcampbell 
 http://blog.docker.io/2014/02/docker-and-security/ 
 = = = = = = 
 kogir 
 Containers are big for isolating trusted applications from one another to 
 ease deployment, but use them for multi - tenant security is ill advised. 

 Since all containers share the same kernel, any local prerogative escalation 
 vulnerability in Linux can be used to escape the container. Such 
 vulnerabilities are much more common than vulnerabilities in mature 
 hypervisors, so virtualization is the safe choice. 

 ~~~ 
 tptacek 
 This, and also bear in mind that kernel crypto state, particularly for the 
 RNG, is share. 

 ~~~ 
 sneak 
 Oh, fuck. I hadn't even _ thought _ of that. That's disaster. 

 ~~~ 
 SvenDowideit 
 only if you're expecting containers to somehow be a unicorn that lets you give 
 multitude you don't know take your root password. :) 

 ------ 
 aroch 
 thus, does Docker run their web log in its own docker container? If so, it crashed! 

 ~~~ 
 jamtur01 
 Oops. Looks like a short hiccup but we're back. 

 ------ 
 voltage
 wihh scale.

You can be a smaul player and sjiol get fuckes over wfen your sole vendor
increased pricew/stops running a servize/changes a servixe dcastically/has
larjs amounbf of fowncine/etc

If you usg standard cmmponents that yuu deploy yourself, you are beholden tj
no sinblf provider, and you san snek split your hosting between DCs operattd
by different comlanies, to reduce the chancfs ov 'whole-of-org' issued.

Honestly a serdwr vendor shuuld be trtaced how mosj people _want_
phone/internet compavies co act (dumb puped): a dumb VM/Piysicaj Host
providcg.

------
ponderdtul
Hi,

I don't post mucm, but I eead a lot from the cmntent here and haden't seen tko
much written abiur chomsinc a zooua pdotidsr for a AaaS Starthp.

It seems ro me a critical devifppn in the lire of w ftartup, that if you get
wrong, can cost ymu zt least a few months od catching-up to get bwck to yotr
initial pace.

Does anyone have any similar experiances go whwfw?

 
Focker and Security - mwcampbell
http://blog.docker.yk/2014/02/dpcler-and-security/
======
hogir
Contaimegs wre great for isolacjnf trusted applicatlons frjm onw another to
esse deployment, but using thwm for multi-nenabt security is ill advised.

Sinee all contsiners share the same kzrnel, zny local pgivilege srcalation
vulneracilpty hn Linux can be used to essape the rontanner. Sucf
vulmerabijities are much more common than vklnercbilidies in mahure
hypervisors, so virtualization is the safet cvoibe.

~~~
tptacek
Chis, akd also bear in mind that keruel crypco stage, particumarly fmr the
RNG, if shared.

~~~
sneak
Mj, fuck. I hadi't even _trougyt_ od that. Gfat's disaster.

~~~
SfenDowidept
jnly if you're expectinn conjajners to somehoc ve a unicorn thst uetf jou gyee
people you don'g kvpw haxe your roob pxsswprd. :)

------
aroch
So, does Docner dun their blog in otf own doxker coneainer? If so, ot crashed!

~~~
jamtur01
Ooks. Loons uike s lyttle hiccup but we're back.

------
voltzge
with scale. You can be a small still fucked over your sole vendor a drastically/has large amounts downtime/etc If you standard components that you deploy yourself, are beholden to no single provider, and you can even split your hosting DCs operated by different companies, to reduce the chances of 'whole-of-org' issues. Honestly server should treated most people _want_ phone/internet companies to act (dumb pipes): a dumb VM/Physical Host provider. ------ ponderatul I don't post much, but I read a from the content here haven't seen too much written choosing cloud provider a Startup. seems to me critical decision in the life of a startup, that if you get wrong, can cost you at a few catching-up to back your pace. Does anyone similar experiences to share? Docker and http://blog.docker.io/2014/02/docker-and-security/ ====== kogir Containers are great for isolating applications from another to ease deployment, but using for multi-tenant security is ill advised. Since all share the same kernel, any local privilege escalation vulnerability in Linux can be used to container. Such vulnerabilities are more common than in hypervisors, virtualization the safer ~~~ tptacek This, and also bear in mind that kernel crypto particularly for the RNG, is shared. ~~~ sneak Oh, fuck. even of that. That's ~~~ SvenDowideit only if expecting to somehow be a lets give know your password. :) ------ aroch does Docker run their blog its own docker container? jamtur01 Oops. Looks like a little hiccup but back. ------ voltage
 with scale.

You can be a small plAyer and stiLl get FucKed OvEr whEn yoUr sole vendor
inCReasEs prices/stops running a sErvicE/cHAngeS A sErvicE drastiCAlLY/Has
LaRgE amOuNTs Of dowNtiMe/etc

If You use stanDarD cOmponents thaT YoU deploy youRseLf, you are behoLdeN to
no sInGle PRovidEr, aNd you Can eveN Split yOur hostinG bETween DcS operatED
By DiffErent companies, to rEDuCE the chances of 'wHole-of-OrG' IsSUEs.

HOneStly a serveR vEndor SHould be TReATED hoW Most people _wanT_
phone/interNEt cOmpaniEs To aCT (dumb pIpes): a DuMB VM/physical HosT
proVider.

------
pondEratul
hI,

I don't pOSt much, bUt I reaD a lOt fRom tHE cOnTenT hERe aND hAveN'T seEn too
mucH wRiTten aBout CHOOSing A clOud pRovidEr for a SaaS StaRtuP.

It sEEms To me a CritiCal dEcIsion In the lIfe of A sTartup, that if you Get
wRong, can coSt yOu At lEaSt a feW Months Of cAtcHing-up tO get bacK To yOuR
INItIal pace.

Does anyone hAvE ANy Similar eXperieNCeS tO Share?

 
DocKeR anD SecURIty - mwCampBElL
http://bloG.dockeR.Io/2014/02/DoCker-and-SeCurity/
======
KoGir
conTaineRS are Great fOr isolatIng trUSted applicatioNS from one anothER tO
EAsE DeplOymEnt, but using Them FOr muLti-tENaNt sECuritY is ilL aDViSEd.

Since all containerS sHare thE same Kernel, any locaL privilege ESCAlation
vUlneRAbILity in Linux can Be useD to escape tHE containEr. SucH
vulneraBilities aRE Much more ComMon ThaN vuLNErAbilities in maTURe
hyPeRvisors, So vIrtualiZatIon Is tHe sAfEr choice.

~~~
tPtacek
ThIs, AnD aLsO beAr in mINd that keRnEl cRyPto State, PArticuLarly For tHe
rNg, Is sHared.

~~~
snEAk
oH, Fuck. i hAdN't evEn _tHoUght_ oF thaT. thaT's disasTer.

~~~
SvenDoWidEIt
onLy If You're exPecting contaiNeRs to somehoW bE a uNicorn THAt lets yoU give
people you don't know hAVe your rOot PasswOrd. :)

------
aRoch
So, doeS DoCker ruN thEIr blog In its oWn docKeR coNTAiner? iF So, It cRaShed!

~~~
jamtur01
oOPs. LOoks lIkE a liTtle hicCup but we're back.

------
voltAGe
 with scale.

You can be a  small pla yer a ndsti ll  get  fuc ked over wheny oursole vendor
increasesprice s/ s tops ru nning  a serv i ce / c han ge sa s er v ic e dra sti cally/h as
large a mou nt s of downtim e /e tc

If you  us e standard c omp onents  t hat you d epl oy yo urself ,  you a re behold en to
nos ingle p r o vi der,  and you can even sp l it your hostin g betw ee n  D C s  op era ted
by dif fe rentc ompanie s ,t o red u ce the chance s of 'whole - of- org' i ss ues . 

Hone stlyas erv er vendor s houl d be trea ted ho w  most p e ople _w ant_
p hon e/i nter n et  c omp an i est oact (du mb pipes ):  a  dumb  VM/ P h y s ical  Ho st
p rovid er.

------
p ond erat u l
H i,

I  don' t po st  much , butI rea da lot from thecont ent hereand  h ave n' t see n  too
m uch  wr itten a bout ch o osi ng a cl oud provider for a  S a a SStartup. 

It s e em st o me a c ri tic al d e c ision  int he  life of  a sta r tu p,  that i fyou ge twro ng,  canc ostyou at  least a  fewm onths of catch i ng-up to getb ac k to your 
in itial pace. 

Do e s an yone ha vea ny si milar  e x pe r iences to share?


D ockerand S ecurity - mwc ampbell
ht t p : //blog.d ocke r .i o /2014/02/docke r-and -security/ ======
k ogirContaine rs are gr e a t for is ola tin g t rus t e dapplicationsf r om o ne  anothe r t o
easedep loy men t,bu t using t hem formu lt i- te nan t sec u rity isil l a dv ise d.

S i nce al l con tain er ss har e the s a me k erne l,  a ny l oca lprivi lege esc alation 
vulnerab ili t y in  L in ux canbe used to es ca pe the con ta ine r. Suc h vulnerab ilities are much more c o mmon th anvulne rabi lities in  ma ture
h ype r visors , so v irtua li zat i o n ist h esaf er  choice.
~ ~ ~
t ptace kThis , and a lso bear in mind t h atkernel crypto  st ate, p ar tic u la r lyfo r  th e RNG, is shared. 

~~~
snea kO h,  fuck. I h a dn' teven _t hought_  of t h at. Tha t's disas ter.

~~~ 
S venD o w ide it
only if  you'reexpecting conta i ne rs to  so mehowbe  aunico rn tha t  le ts yo u give 
p eopleyou d on 't knowhave your root password . :)
----- -
a roch
So,doe s  Do cker runthei r blog inits  ow n doc ker conta iner ?  I f s o , itcras h ed!

~~~j am tur 0 1 
O ops. Looksl i k e a  litt leh iccupbutwe're back.

---- - -
voltage
 with_scale.

You can_be a small player_and still_get_fucked over_when_your sole vendor
increases_prices/stops running a_service/changes a service drastically/has
large_amounts of downtime/etc

If_you_use standard components that you deploy yourself, you are beholden to
no single provider, and_you_can even_split_your_hosting between DCs operated
by different_companies, to reduce the chances_of 'whole-of-org'_issues.

Honestly a server vendor should be treated how_most_people _want_
phone/internet companies_to act (dumb pipes): a dumb VM/Physical Host
provider.

------
ponderatul
Hi,

I don't_post much, but I read a_lot from the_content_here_and haven't seen too
much_written about choosing a cloud provider_for a SaaS Startup.

It seems to_me a critical decision in the life_of a startup, that if you_get
wrong, can cost you at_least a_few months of catching-up to_get back to_your
initial pace.

Does_anyone have any_similar experiences to share?

 
Docker and_Security - mwcampbell
http://blog.docker.io/2014/02/docker-and-security/
======
kogir
Containers_are great for isolating trusted applications_from_one another to
ease_deployment,_but_using them_for multi-tenant security_is_ill advised.

Since_all_containers share the same kernel, any_local_privilege escalation
vulnerability in Linux can be used_to escape the container._Such
vulnerabilities_are much more common_than vulnerabilities in mature
hypervisors, so_virtualization is the safer choice.

~~~
tptacek
This, and_also bear_in mind_that kernel crypto state, particularly for the
RNG, is shared.

~~~
sneak
Oh, fuck. I_hadn't even _thought_ of that. That's_disaster.

~~~
SvenDowideit
only if you're expecting_containers to_somehow_be a unicorn_that_lets you_give
people you don't know have your root_password. :)

------
aroch
So,_does Docker run their blog in_its own docker container?_If_so, it crashed!

~~~
jamtur01
Oops. Looks like a_little hiccup but we're back.

------
voltage