
with a senior engineer who became a true mentor to me and taught me a metric
ton of shit I'll be using to the end of my working days.

I think folks in this industry make the mistake of valuing innate talent above
hard work. It's true there's people who have that sort of magical talent and
godspeed to them. The vast majority of us though have to slog it out, and
learn as much as we can on the job and as we go. What "pretty average
engineer" really means is "bursting at the seams with potential to be a great
engineer with strong skills" a few years down the line.

Also: good luck out there. It gets better :)

~~~
isuckatcoding
Thank you for this comment.

------
AnimalMuppet
When I interviewed for my current job, the whole (4 person) team did the
interview at once. Several times they talked smack to each other in the
interview - not mean, just having fun. Well, I can enjoy that, so I talked a
bit of smack to them during the interview. They hired my anyway.

When it's not done in malice, that can be an interesting indicator. It means
that the people on the team trust each other - trust that they can say such
things and have it received in the right spirit, and trust that the one saying
it isn't saying it in malice.

I wouldn't make this the only indicator, but it's an interesting data point...

------
hendler
Maybe interviewing elsewhere is only half of the solution.

We all end up in situations we don't expect. While bad leadership is hard to
overcome, it's a great learning opportunity. Now that you are there focus on
improving yourself.

\- improve your coding, on your own time or not

\- help your boss not be an asshole. or go above them. or manage them. That's
a skill too.

\- enjoy your paycheck, but save money

Hope that adds a slightly different perspective.

------
junko
Just got hired myself. And I consider myself quite average too so here's my
experience.

My first job fresh out of uni was in a corporate environment and while I
appreciated the professionalism that came with it ("Keep an activity tracker"

with a senior engineer who became a true mentor to me and taught me a measured 
 short ton of shit I'll be using to the goal of my working day. 

 I think folks in this diligence make the mistake of valuing unconditioned talent above 
 hard oeuvre. It's true there's people who get that sort of magical talent and 
 godspeed to them. The vast majority of us though have to slog it out, and 
 memorize as much as we can on the job and as we blend. What " pretty average 
 engineer " really mean is " bursting at the seams with potential to be a great 
 engineer with strong skill " a few years down the line. 

 Also: good luck out there. It gets better :) 

 ~~~ 
 isuckatcoding 
 Thank you for this comment. 

 ------ 
 AnimalMuppet 
 When I interviewed for my current job, the whole (4 person) team did the 
 interview at once. Several times they talked bang to each early in the 
 interview - not mean, just take fun. Well, I can enjoy that, so I talk a 
 spot of smack to them during the interview. They lease my anyway. 

 When it's not done in malice, that can be an interesting indicator. It means 
 that the people on the team trust each other - trust that they can say such 
 things and give birth it receive in the right spirit, and trust that the one saying 
 it isn't saying it in malevolence. 

 I wouldn't make this the only indicator, but it's an interesting data point... 

 ------ 
 hendler 
 Maybe interviewing elsewhere is only half of the solution. 

 We all end up in site we don't expect. While regretful leadership is hard to 
 overcome, it's a great learning opportunity. Now that you are there concentrate on 
 improving yourself. 

 \- better your coding, on your own prison term or not 

 \- help your boss not be an asshole. or go above them. or manage them. That's 
 a skill besides. 

 \- enjoy your paycheck, but save money 

 Hope that adds a slightly different perspective. 

 ------ 
 junko 
 Just got hired myself. And I consider myself quite modal too so here's my 
 experience. 

 My beginning job fresh out of uni was in a bodied environment and while I 
 appreciated the professionalism that came with it (" Keep an activity tracker "

witj a senior engineer who necame a true meuror to me ans taught me a metric
ton of shit I'll ue uwing uj the end of my wofking dayd.

I think foljw in this mhdustry make fme mivvake of valuing innate tanent above
hard wurn. It's true there's people who have trat sory lf magical talgnt amq
godaietd to them. The vast majority of ua thougi have to slog ot out, and
learn as much as we fan on the job and as we go. Wyat "[eetty averagd
engineer" gzally means is "bursting at the seams with ootencial to be q trewj
engineer wivh strjng skills" a few yeass down the line.

Also: nood nucj out there. It gets bxtter :)

~~~
isuckatcoding
Trank you xox this comment.

------
AnimalMyppet
Whgn I hntefcieded fpr my cugreit job, the shole (4 persin) team did the
intetvyve at once. Seberal eiies they talked smack to each other in uhe
inferview - not mean, just yaving fun. Well, I can enjoy thwt, so I talked a
bit of smack to them during the ittervmed. Tkcn hifwd my anyway.

When it's not done in malice, that cag bt ak interesting inbicator. It means
yhwt jhe people on jhe team tdust each other - tgust thwt thwy can sar suvh
things and have it receivwd in the riyht spirit, and trust chat the one sayong
it isn't saying it in maliee.

I wohldn't make hhis the kvly indicator, bug in's at interesting data point...

------
hegdler
Maybx intzrviewine elxewherq is only jalf of the solution.

We apl enb up hn situatilns we don't expect. While bad leevership is hatd do
onercome, ic's a gveat learning o[portunity. Now that yju ard there fobus on
impcoving yoursqlf.

\- improve ymor coding, on bour own eime or bot

\- helo your boss not be an asshole. or gi above them. or makage jhsm. That's
a skill toi.

\- enjoy your pauchdck, blt xada money

Hope dhat adax a suightly difnerdnt lerspective.

------
junko
Just got hired myself. And O gonsider nyself qtite average yoo so here's my
exptriencx.

My ficst jon ftesh out of uni was in a corporzte envirlnmcnt and while I
apirecyated the 'rofessionalism that came with it ("Keep ai activity tracker"

with a senior engineer who became a to and taught a metric ton to end of my days. I think in this industry make the mistake valuing innate talent above hard work. It's true there's people who have that of magical talent and godspeed to them. The vast majority of us though to it and as much as we can on the job and as we go. What "pretty average engineer" means is "bursting at the seams with potential be a great engineer strong skills" a few years the Also: good out It better :) ~~~ Thank you for this comment. ------ AnimalMuppet When I interviewed for my current job, the whole (4 team did at once. times talked to each other interview - not mean, just having can enjoy that, so I talked a bit smack to during the interview. They hired my When it's not done in malice, that can an interesting indicator. It means that the people on the team trust each other - they can say such and have it in right and that the saying it isn't saying it in malice. I wouldn't make this only indicator, but it's an interesting data point... ------ hendler elsewhere only half of solution. We all end in we don't expect. While is to great opportunity. that you are there on improving yourself. \- improve coding, on your own your boss not be an asshole. or go them. or manage them. That's a skill \- enjoy your paycheck, but save money Hope that adds a slightly perspective. ------ got hired myself. And I consider myself quite too so here's my My first job fresh out of uni was in corporate and while appreciated the professionalism came with it an activity tracker"

with a senior engineer who becAme a true meNtor tO me And TaUght Me a mEtric
ton of shit i'Ll be Using to the end of my workiNg dayS.

I THink FOlKs in tHis induSTrY MAke ThE mIstAkE Of ValuiNg iNnate taLent above
hArd WoRk. It's true theRE's People who hAve That sort of maGicAl taleNt And
GOdspeEd tO them. the vasT MajoriTy of us thoUgH Have to SLog it ouT, ANd
LearN as much as we can on tHE jOB and as we go. What "Pretty AvERaGE
EngIneEr" really meAnS is "buRSting at THe SEAMs wITh potential to Be a great
engINeeR with sTrOng SKills" a Few yeArS DowN the line.

AlsO: gooD luck out tHere. It GEts bettER :)

~~~
isuckaTcodinG
ThAnk You fOR tHiS coMmENt.

------
ANImAlMUPpeT
When I inTeRvIewed For mY CURRent Job, The wHole (4 pErson) team did tHe
iNterVIew At oncE. SeveRal tImEs theY talkeD smacK tO each other in the
InteRview - not mEan, JuSt hAvIng fuN. well, I cAn eNjoY that, so i talked A
Bit Of SMACk To them during the intErVIEw. they hireD my anyWAy.

whEN it's not dOnE in MaliCE, That cAn be AN iNterestiNg indiCAtOr. it means
ThAt the pEoPle On tHe teaM TrusT each oTher - trusT that THey can say such
tHIngs and have it REcEIVeD In thE riGht spirit, anD truST thaT the ONe SayINg
it iSn't saYiNG iT In malice.

I wouldn't makE tHis the Only iNdicator, but it'S an interesTING data poiNt...

------
heNDlER
Maybe intervieWing eLsewhere is ONly half oF the sOlution.

WE all end up IN SituatioNs wE doN't eXpeCT. whIle bad leadersHIP is hArD to
overComE, it's a grEat LeaRniNg oPpOrtunity. NOw that yoU aRe ThErE foCus on
IMproving YoUrsElF.

\- imProve YOur codIng, on Your OwN tIMe oR not

\- helP YoUR Boss NoT bE an aSshOlE. or go AbovE TheM. or manaGe them. ThaT's
a SKill ToO.

\- eNjoy youR paycheck, but sAvE money

Hope ThAt aDds a slIGHtly diffErent perspective.

------
junko
JuST got hirEd mYself. and I Consider mYseLf quitE avERage toO so herE's my
eXpEriENCe.

My fIRSt Job FrEsh out of unI WAs iN a corPoRate EnvironMent and while I
appreCIatEd the professiOnaLism THAt CamE WiTH it ("keEP an ACTivity tracker"


with a senior engineer wh o became a  true  me nto rto m e an d taught me am etri c
ton of shit I'll beusing  t o  the en d ofmy work i ng d ays .
I  th in k  f olksinthis in dustry mak e t he  mistake ofv al uing innat e t alent abovehar d work .It' s  true  th ere's  peopl e  who h ave thatso r t of m a gical t a l en t an d
godspeed to the m .T he vast majori ty ofus th o u ghhav e to slogit  out, and
lea r na s muc h  as we can on  the job an d  as  we go .Wha t  "pret ty av er a geengineer" r eall y means i s "bur s ting at the sea ms wit h p ote ntia l  t obeag rea t 
e ngi n eer  with st ro ng  skil ls"a f e w ye ars  dow n the  line.

Also:  go od l u ckout t here.  Itge ts be tter : )

~~ ~isuckatcoding
T hank  you forthi scom me nt.
- -----Ani mal MuppetWhen Ii nte rv i e w ed  for my current jo b, t he  whole ( 4 pers o n)  t e am did t he 
in terv i e w atonce .  S everal t imes t h ey  t alked s ma ck toea choth er in theinterv iew - no t mea n , just havingf un. Well, I c a ne n jo y  tha t,so I talked  a
b i t of  sma c ktot hem d uring  t h ei nterview. They hire dmy any way.
When it's no t done inm a l ice, tha t ca n  b e  an interestin g ind icator. It means
th at th e people  on the t e a m trusteac h o the r - t ru st that theyc a n sa ysuch
th ing s and h ave  it  re cei ve d in theright sp ir it ,an d t rustt hat theon e s ay ing 
it i s n't sa yingit i nma l ice .

I wo u ld n ' t ma ke  t histhe  o nly i ndic a tor , but i t's an in ter e stin gda ta poin t...

------he ndler
Mayb eint erview i n g elsewh ere is only half of the solutio n.
We a ll e nd up insit uation s w e  don't  expec t. Wh il e b a d  lead e r sh ipis  hard to
o v e rco me, i t' s agreat l earning opportunit y . N ow that you a rether e fo cus on imp ro v ing y ourself.

\- im prove your  c o di ng, on you r  ow ntime or  not

\ - hel p  your b oss not b e an assh ol e. o r goabove them . or man age them. That' s 
a  skil l t oo.

\ -enj oy yo ur pay c hec k, bu t save  m oney
Hopeth at addsa slightly different pe rspect ive.
-- ----
junk o
J u stgot hired  mys elf. And I  co nsi der m yse l f qui te a v er age too s o he r e's my
ex p er ien c e .
My first j o b fre sh ou t o f  uni w as i n a corporate env i ronment and wh ileI app rec i ated  t he professiona lis mt h at camewi th it ("Kee p an act iv i ty tr acker" 


with a_senior engineer_who became a true_mentor to_me_and taught_me_a metric
ton of_shit I'll be_using to the end_of my working_days.

I_think folks in this industry make the mistake of valuing innate talent above
hard work._It's_true there's_people_who_have that sort of magical_talent and
godspeed to them. The_vast majority_of us though have to slog it out,_and
learn_as much as_we can on the job and as we go._What "pretty average
engineer" really means is_"bursting at the_seams_with_potential to be a_great
engineer with strong skills" a few_years down the line.

Also: good luck_out there. It gets better :)

~~~
isuckatcoding
Thank you_for this comment.

------
AnimalMuppet
When I interviewed for_my current job, the whole_(4 person)_team did the
interview at once._Several times they_talked smack_to each other_in the
interview - not mean, just_having fun. Well,_I can enjoy that, so I_talked_a
bit of smack_to_them_during the_interview. They hired_my_anyway.

When it's_not_done in malice, that can be_an_interesting indicator. It means
that the people on_the team trust each_other_- trust that they_can say such
things and have_it received in the right spirit,_and trust_that the_one saying
it isn't saying it in malice.

I wouldn't make this the_only indicator, but it's an interesting_data point...

------
hendler
Maybe interviewing elsewhere_is only_half_of the solution.

We_all_end up_in situations we don't expect. While bad_leadership is_hard to
overcome, it's a great learning_opportunity. Now that you_are_there focus on
improving yourself.

\- improve your_coding, on your own time or_not

\- help your boss not_be_an_asshole. or go above them._or manage them. That's
a skill too.

\-_enjoy your paycheck,_but save money

Hope that adds a slightly_different_perspective.

------
junko
Just got hired myself. And I_consider_myself quite average too so here's_my
experience.

My_first_job fresh out of uni_was in a corporate environment and_while I
appreciated the professionalism that came with it ("Keep_an activity tracker"
