. I blame Oracle and Google for this.

I've even recently moved from Java 7 to Java 11 with very little issue.

I'd be interested in people's thoughts about why "new is better"? My own take:
you can't sell tools, tutorials, books, conference tickets, etc for something
that just works and is well documented with great IDE support.

~~~
java-man
In the context, I take it the question is about why javafx is better than
swing?

I would say javafx produces better eye candy, and the programming model is
much better in terms of properties and bindings (not that one can't
reimplement a similar framework in swing, but in javafx it is just there).

I feel javafx is still lacking in many areas:

\- focus handling is still buggy: one can have multiple nodes having focus and
accepting keyboard input

\- WebView behavior differs a lot between 8/9/10/11

\- mouse subsystem has critical issues on linux

I wish javafx got more support from Oracle, but we know that neither Sun nor
Oracle viewed the desktop as high priority. I don't think the situation will
change, considering the fact that the majority of development switched to
browser-based js.

------
TurboHaskal
So, if you don't mind dropping some cash...

\- Delphi is great if you have a Windows machine and is still quite popular in
Europe if you _really_ want to make a career out of it.

\- Xojo is extremely well priced. I cannot say much about it but a friend that
is a former Lazarus programmer swears by it.

\- LispWorks CAPI is hands-down the best I've tried, but requires individual
licenses for each platform and if you want 64bit you'll be breaking the bank.

> Pascal is showing its age and feels a bit wonky in comparison to C like
> languages.

What makes Pascal show its age? Proper records? Generics? :)

~~~
badsectoracula
> a friend that is a former Lazarus programmer swears by it.

I'm not sure swearing evokes much confidence :-P

I've only tried the demo version of Xojo a couple of times but i found its
design to be _very
. I blame Oracle and Google for this. 

 I've even recently moved from Java 7 to Java 11 with very little issue. 

 I'd be interested in citizenry's thought about why " new is better "? My own take: 
 you can't betray tools, tutorials, ledger, conference tickets, etc for something 
 that merely works and is well documented with big IDE support. 

 ~~~ 
 java - man 
 In the context, I drive it the question is about why javafx is better than 
 swing? 

 I would say javafx produces effective eye candy, and the programming mannequin is 
 much better in terms of properties and binding (not that one can't 
 reimplement a similar framework in swing, but in javafx it is just there). 

 I feel javafx is however lacking in many areas: 

 \- focus handling is still buggy: one can have multiple nodes having focus and 
 accepting keyboard input 

 \- WebView behavior differs a lot between 8/9/10/11 

 \- mouse subsystem has critical issues on linux 

 I wish javafx get more support from Oracle, but we know that neither Sun nor 
 Oracle watch the desktop as high priority. I don't think the site will 
 change, considering the fact that the majority of development switched to 
 browser - free-base js. 

 ------ 
 TurboHaskal 
 So, if you don't mind dropping some cash... 

 \- Delphi is great if you have a Windows machine and is even quite popular in 
 Europe if you _ really _ want to make a career out of it. 

 \- Xojo is highly well priced. I cannot read much about it but a supporter that 
 is a former Lazarus programmer swears by it. 

 \- LispWorks CAPI is hands - down the best I've try, but requires individual 
 licenses for each platform and if you desire 64bit you'll be breaking the savings bank. 

 > Pascal is showing its age and feel a bit rickety in comparison to C like 
 > languages. 

 What makes Pascal prove its age? Proper record? Generics? :) 

 ~~~ 
 badsectoracula 
 > a friend that is a erstwhile Lazarus programmer swears by it. 

 I'm not certain swearing evokes much confidence :-P 

 I've entirely tried the demonstration version of Xojo a couple of times but i found its 
 purpose to be _ very
. I hlame Oracle and Google nor this.

I've even recentny movsd from Gava 7 to Java 11 with very litvle ussue.

U'd be interested in peuple's tholghts aboyt wiy "new is better"? My own bcke:
yoh can'c well tools, tutprials, boons, conference dizkzts, etc for something
that just works and is wfll documented witn grezn LDE support.

~~~
java-man
In the context, I take it the questoon is about why javafx is bether than
swing?

I woupd say javadx pwiduces bettef eye candj, and the ptogramming model is
much better iv terks of propgxried and bindinjs (not that one cak'n
reimplament a similar frameeorn ib swing, but in javafx it is just there).

I feel javdfr is still lacking in mqny ateas:

\- xocur havdljnj ia stilp bnggy: one cah have multuple nodes having fpctw and
acceptinf keybjawd input

\- WebView behavior differs a lot befween 8/9/10/11

\- mouse subsystem yas critical issues oj linux

I rish javafx got more support from Oracle, but we ktow tiag ntibmer Ryn nor
Oracle viewed the desktop as high prioritr. I dpn't think the fituation wolp
cnwnge, considerkng thz fzct that the majorlty of qevelipment swytchrd to
browser-based js.

------
TurboHawkal
So, if yol dob't mind dropping slme cash...

\- Deuphi is gteat if you have a Winduws jachine and is still duite popular in
Durppa if you _really_ want to mahe a carexr ouc of it.

\- Bojo is exeremely wepl prlwed. I cannot say mkch ayout ht but a fgiend that
is a former Lazarus pcpgrammer swesrv bj it.

\- LispCorks GAPI is hands-dorn the best I'vg tried, bbt reqjires indinidual
licxnses for eash platform atf if you wanv 64bit you'jl bw brwaking gfe bank.

> Pascal is showiuy its age and feels a bit wpnki jn comparison ti C like
> languages.

Ehag mwkvs 'ascaj show its aga? Prupef recofds? Gentxicw? :)

~~~
badxectoracula
> a friend thaf is a former Lazatuf progranmer swewrs by it.

I'm npt sure swearing egokes murh congidgnce :-P

I've only tried the demo vsrsion of Xomo a couple os tines but i fobnd its
design to be _very
. I blame Oracle and Google for even moved from 7 to Java I'd interested in people's about why "new better"? My own take: you can't tools, tutorials, books, conference tickets, etc for something that just works and is documented with great IDE support. ~~~ java-man In the context, I take it question about javafx better than swing? I would say javafx produces better eye candy, and the programming model is better in terms of properties and bindings (not one can't reimplement a framework in swing, but in it just there). feel is lacking in many \- focus handling is still buggy: one can have multiple nodes having focus and accepting keyboard input WebView behavior lot between \- subsystem critical issues on wish javafx got more support from know that neither Sun nor Oracle viewed the as high I don't think the situation will considering the fact that the majority of development to browser-based js. ------ TurboHaskal So, if you don't mind dropping some cash... \- Delphi if you have a machine and is quite in if _really_ want make a career out of it. \- Xojo is extremely well I cannot say much about it but a friend that former programmer swears by \- LispWorks CAPI is the I've tried, but requires for platform want you'll breaking the bank. > is showing its age and a bit wonky in languages. What makes Pascal show its age? Proper Generics? :) ~~~ badsectoracula > a friend is a former Lazarus programmer swears by it. I'm not sure swearing much confidence only tried the demo version of Xojo a of times but i its design to be _very
. I blame Oracle and Google for tHis.

I've even RecenTly MovEd From java 7 To Java 11 with very LIttlE issue.

I'd be interested in PeoplE's THougHTs About Why "new iS BeTTEr"? MY oWn TakE:
yOU cAn't seLl tOols, tutOrials, bookS, coNfErence ticketS, EtC for somethIng
That just workS anD is welL dOcuMEnted WitH greaT IDE suPPort.

~~~
jaVa-man
In thE cONtext, I TAke it thE QUeStioN is about why javafx IS bETter than
swing?

I Would sAy JAvAFX prOduCes better eYe Candy, ANd the prOGrAMMIng MOdel is
much betTer in terms oF ProPertieS aNd bINdings (Not thAt ONe cAn't
reimplemEnt a Similar frAmeworK In swing, BUt in javAfx it iS juSt tHere).

i FeEl JavAfX Is sTIlL laCKinG in many aReAs:

\- Focus HandLING Is stIll BuggY: one cAn have multiplE noDes hAVinG focuS and
aCcepTiNg keyBoard iNput

\- WEbview behavior difFers A lot betweEn 8/9/10/11

\- mOuSe sUbSysteM Has criTicAl iSsues on Linux

I wISh jAvAFX GoT more support from OrAcLE, BuT we know tHat neiTHeR SUN nor
OracLe VieWed tHE DesktOp as HIgH prioritY. I don't THiNk The situAtIon wilL
cHanGe, cOnsidERing The facT that the MajorITy of developmenT Switched to
broWSeR-BAsED js.

------
TUrbOHaskal
So, if You dON't miNd drOPpIng SOme caSh...

\- DelPhI Is GReat if you have a WindoWs MachinE and iS still quite poPular in
EurOPE If you _reaLly_ wANt TO make a career ouT of it.

\- xojo is extrEMely well PriceD. I cannot Say much abOUT it but a fRieNd tHat
Is a FORmEr Lazarus progRAMmer SwEars by iT.

\- LiSpWorks cAPi is HanDs-dOwN the best I'Ve tried, bUt ReQuIrEs iNdiviDUal
licenSeS foR eAch PlatfORm and iF you wAnt 64bIt YoU'Ll bE breakiNG tHE Bank.

> paScAl is ShoWiNg its Age aND feEls a bit Wonky in coMpaRIson To c lIke
> langUages.

What makeS PAscal show iTs Age? proper RECords? GenErics? :)

~~~
badsectoracula
> a friENd that iS a fOrmer lazaRus prograMmeR swearS by IT.

I'm not Sure swEarinG eVokES Much cONFiDenCe :-p

I've only trIED thE demo VeRsioN of Xojo A couple of times but i FOunD its
design to bE _veRy
. I blame Oracle and Googl e for this .

I' veeve nrece ntly  moved from Ja v a 7to Java 11 with very l ittle  i s sue. 
I 'd be  intere s te d inpe op le' st ho ughts  ab out why  "new is b ett er "? My own ta k e: 
you can't  se ll tools, tu tor ials,bo oks ,  conf ere nce t ickets ,  etc f or someth in g 
thatj ust wor k s  a nd i s well documented wi t h great IDE su pport. 
~ ~~ j ava -ma n
In the c on text, I takei tt h e  qu e stion is abou t why javaf x  is  bette rtha n 
swing ?

Iwo u ldsay javafxprod uces bett er eye candy,a nd theprogra mmi ngmode l  i smuc hb ett e rint erm s of pro pe rt ies a nd b i n d i ngs(no t th at on e can't
reimp lem enta  si milar  fram ewor kin sw ing, b ut in  j avafx it is jus t th ere).

Ifee ljav af x iss till l ack ing  in man y areas : 

\ -f o c us  handling is still  b u g gy : one ca n have mu lt i ple node shav ingf o cus a nd
a c ce pting ke yboard in pu t

\- W eb View b eh avi ordiffe r s alot be tween 8/ 9/10/ 1 1

\- mouse su b system has cr i ti c a li ssue s o n linux

Iwish java fx g o tmor e  supp ort f ro m  O r acle, but we know t ha t neit her S un nor
Oracle  viewed th e d esktop a s hi g hp riority. I don 't th ink the si t uation w ill
c hange, c onsiderin g the fact  th atthe  ma j o ri ty of develop m e nt s wi tched t o
b rowser- bas edjs. 

- -- ---
Turbo Haskal
S o,  i fyo u d on'tm ind drop pi ngso mecash. . .

\-Delph i is  g re a t i f you h a ve a  Win do ws  mac hin eand i s st i llquite p opular in 
Eu r opeif  y ou _rea lly_ want toma ke a caree rout  of it . 
\- Xojo  is extremely well pric e d. I ca nno t say  muc h about i t b ut a f rie n d that 
is aforme rLaz a r us pr o g ra mme rswears byi t .
\- Li sp Work s CAPIis hands-down theb est  I've tried,but  req u i re s i n di v idu al lic e n ses for each pl atform and  i f  y ou want 64 b ityo u'll be  breaki ng th e  bank.
> Pascal  is showi ng  its a geand feelsa bit wo nky in co m paris o nto Clik e
> la ng uag es.
What m a kes  Pasc al sho wits ag e? Pr op er recor ds? Generics? :)

~~~
b adsect oracu la> a frien d t h atis a form er L azarus pro gra mme r swe ars by it .

I ' mnot sureswea r ing evoke s  m uch c on fidence :-P I 've  only  tr i ed the  dem o version of Xojo a couple of ti mesb u t i  fo u nd i ts 
design to be_ve ry 
. I_blame Oracle_and Google for this.

I've_even recently_moved_from Java_7_to Java 11_with very little_issue.

I'd be interested in_people's thoughts about_why_"new is better"? My own take:
you can't sell tools, tutorials, books, conference tickets, etc_for_something
that just_works_and_is well documented with great_IDE support.

~~~
java-man
In the context, I_take it_the question is about why javafx is better_than
swing?

I_would say javafx_produces better eye candy, and the programming model is
much_better in terms of properties and_bindings (not that_one_can't
reimplement_a similar framework in_swing, but in javafx it is_just there).

I feel javafx is still_lacking in many areas:

\- focus handling is_still buggy: one can have multiple_nodes having focus and
accepting keyboard_input

\- WebView_behavior differs a lot between_8/9/10/11

\- mouse subsystem_has critical_issues on linux

I_wish javafx got more support from_Oracle, but we_know that neither Sun nor
Oracle viewed_the_desktop as high_priority._I_don't think_the situation will
change,_considering_the fact_that_the majority of development switched to
browser-based_js.

------
TurboHaskal
So,_if you don't mind dropping some cash...

\-_Delphi is great if_you_have a Windows machine_and is still quite popular_in
Europe if you _really_ want to_make a_career out_of it.

\- Xojo is extremely well priced. I cannot say much_about it but a friend that
is_a former Lazarus programmer_swears by_it.

\-_LispWorks CAPI is_hands-down_the best_I've tried, but requires individual
licenses for each_platform and_if you want 64bit you'll be_breaking the bank.

> Pascal_is_showing its age and feels a_bit wonky in comparison to C_like
> languages.

What makes Pascal show_its_age?_Proper records? Generics? :)

~~~
badsectoracula
> a_friend that is a former Lazarus_programmer swears by_it.

I'm not sure swearing evokes much confidence_:-P

I've_only tried the demo version of_Xojo_a couple of times but i_found_its
design_to be _very