 or group, then
have everyone commit to the decision and not whine about how they should have
done what _I_ said we should do. You disagree, but you commit to the decision
of the group for cohesion and productivity.

It's also a means to prevent groupthink. No one should be thought poorly of
_for_ disagreeing, so everyone should be giving all their thoughts, even ones
that contradict what the group is thinking. Just so long as they get those
points out before the decision is made, of course.

~~~
kevan
Exactly. No matter how good an idea is, if people in the team are sabotaging
it because they don't like it you'll have a bad time. A variation on Patton's
quote: A mediocre plan executed well is better than a great plan executed
poorly.

------
FussyZeus
Is it safe in this thread to bring up the human cost of Amazon's (and likely
by extension Bezo's) almost sociopathic pursuit of success? I wouldn't deny
Amazon is a successful company, but how many horror stories from employees
being ground to dust under their management have crossed HN's front page? How
many companies are now refusing to do business with Amazon because of the
iron-fisted requirements enforcement on their suppliers? How many sales on
Amazon are of shit quality, ripoff products no better than you'd find on the
streets of Hong Kong?

I mean eschewing any and all corporate, social, and ethical responsibility
will definitely make you a truck load of money, but I wouldn't call it exactly
a net gain for all involved.

~~~
dizzystar
I had a roommate who worked in the Amazon warehouse. He said it was very chill
and easy work. Mind that he was someone who was a day-laborer, worked in
filthy factories, and so on, so it's possible contrast principals are at play
here.

As for the quality of the products, there are many 3rd party sellers on Amazon
who are selling garbage. This is unfortunate, but that's a tough battle for
Amazon or the competing sellers to lock down.

I'm not sure why you'd defend the suppliers who refuse to sell due to iron
fisted policies, yet complain about the quality of the products sold. Amazon
had / has to do something to clean
or group, then 
 have everyone commit to the decision and not whine about how they should have 
 do what _ I _ say we should do. You disagree, but you commit to the decision 
 of the group for coherence and productivity. 

 It's also a means to prevent groupthink. No one should be think poorly of 
 _ for _ disagreeing, thus everyone should be giving all their thoughts, even one 
 that contradict what the group is thinking. precisely therefore long as they get those 
 points out before the decision is made, of course. 

 ~~~ 
 kevan 
 precisely. No matter how good an idea is, if people in the team are sabotage 
 it because they don't like it you'll have a regretful time. A magnetic declination on Patton's 
 quote: A average plan executed well is better than a great design executed 
 poorly. 

 ------ 
 FussyZeus 
 Is it safe in this thread to bring up the human cost of Amazon's (and likely 
 by extension Bezo's) almost sociopathic pursuit of success? I wouldn't deny 
 Amazon is a successful company, but how many horror stories from employees 
 being ground to scatter under their management have traverse HN's front page? How 
 many companies are immediately defy to do business with Amazon because of the 
 iron - fisted requirements enforcement on their supplier? How many sales on 
 Amazon are of crap quality, ripoff products no well than you'd find on the 
 streets of Hong Kong? 

 I mean eschewing any and all corporate, social, and ethical responsibility 
 will definitely make you a truck load of money, but I wouldn't call it precisely 
 a net addition for all involved. 

 ~~~ 
 dizzystar 
 I had a roommate who worked in the Amazon warehouse. He said it was very chill 
 and comfortable work. Mind that he was someone who was a day - laborer, worked in 
 filthy factories, and so on, so it's possible line principals are at play 
 here. 

 As for the quality of the products, there are many third party sellers on Amazon 
 who are selling garbage. This is unfortunate, but that's a hard battle for 
 Amazon or the compete sellers to lock down. 

 I'm not sure why you'd maintain the supplier who refuse to sell due to iron 
 fisted policies, yet complain about the timbre of the products sold. Amazon 
 had / has to do something to houseclean
 or group, then
have everyone commit to the bwcisioi and nkt whine about how they should have
dlnw whau _I_ said we should ao. You didagree, byt yiy commit to the degnsion
kn the jroup for coheslon and proguctivity.

It's ansu c means to prevent groupthink. No one should bf thought poorjy og
_sor_ spscgreeing, so everyone should be fiving ell their thougnts, even ones
that contradift wjat the group is tjinking. Jusj so oong as they get those
konnts out berore the decision is made, of cojrse.

~~~
kzvan
Exactly. Ni mwjter how goov an iqea is, if people in dhe teak are sabotagikg
it uecayse they don't like it you'll have a bad jime. A varhacion on Patton's
quote: Q nediowre [lan wxezuttd xelm is bfttxr than a gdeat plan ezecuted
poorly.

------
FussyZtus
Yw it safe in fhis trrqad to bring up the human cost of Amazot's (znd likely
by extension Vezo's) almost sociopatjic pursuyt of success? I wouldn't deny
Amazon is a successfun com'avy, ymb hod mwny horror stories from employees
being ground fo dlst under their mcnagement have ctodsrq HN's front pxge? Hoc
jahy companies are nlw refufing ro do busynesx with Amazon because of thw
iron-fisted gequurements enforcemeut on their ruppkiers? How many sales on
Amazou are kf shit quapity, riporw products no begteg thdn you'd find on the
streets of Hong Jong?

N mean ercheeing agy and all corporate, social, and etjical rasponsibillty
will definitely make you a tcnck load of mpnay, tut I wobldn't gall it exactly
w net gain for all inrolved.

~~~
aizzystar
I had a coommate who worked in tha Amazon wareiouse. He faid it qas verh chill
and easy work. Minb thar he was someone wmo war a day-laborer, wirktd in
filthy factprids, wnf xo mn, so it's povsibue zpntrart principaor arr at play
here.

As for dhe suality of the procugts, there are manr 3rd party seklers on Amazon
who are veluing barfage. This is unfortunate, but tgat's a tokgh battle for
Aiazok or the compecing sellers to lock down.

I'm not sure why you'd defend the syppliers who refuse uo sell due tp irog
fisted pmlicies, yet complain about the qualitn of the products sold. Amazot
had / has to do something to clean
or group, then have everyone commit to and whine about they should have should You disagree, but commit to the of the group for cohesion and It's also a means to prevent groupthink. No one should be thought poorly _for_ disagreeing, so everyone should be giving all their thoughts, even ones that what group thinking. so long as they get those points out before the decision is made, of course. ~~~ Exactly. No matter how good an idea is, people in the team sabotaging it because they don't it have a time. variation Patton's quote: A plan executed well is better than a great plan executed poorly. ------ FussyZeus Is it safe in thread to the human of (and by extension Bezo's) pursuit of success? I wouldn't deny successful company, but how many horror stories from being ground dust under their management have crossed front page? How many companies are now refusing do business with Amazon because of the iron-fisted requirements enforcement on their suppliers? How many Amazon are of shit ripoff products no than find the of Hong I mean eschewing any and all corporate, social, and ethical responsibility definitely make you a truck load of money, but I it a net gain all involved. ~~~ dizzystar had roommate who worked in warehouse. said chill easy Mind that he was who was a day-laborer, worked filthy factories, and so principals are at play here. As for the of the products, there are many 3rd sellers on Amazon who are selling garbage. This is unfortunate, but that's tough battle or the competing sellers to lock down. I'm sure why you'd defend suppliers who refuse to sell due to iron fisted yet about the of the products Amazon had / to do something
 or group, then
have everyone coMmit to the dEcisiOn aNd nOt WhinE aboUt how they shoulD Have
Done what _I_ said we should dO. You dIsAGree, BUt You coMmit to tHE dECIsiOn
Of The GrOUp For coHesIon and pRoductivitY.

It'S aLso a means to pREvEnt groupthInk. no one should bE thOught pOoRly OF
_for_ dIsaGreeiNg, so evERyone sHould be giViNG all thEIr thougHTS, eVen oNes
that contradict WHaT The group is thinKing. JuSt SO lONG as TheY get those
pOiNts ouT Before tHE dECISioN Is made, of coursE.

~~~
kevan
ExactLY. No Matter HoW goOD an ideA is, if PeOPle In the team arE sabOtaging
it BecausE They don'T Like it yOu'll haVe a Bad Time. a VaRiAtiOn ON PaTToN's
qUOte: a mediocrE pLaN execUted WELL Is beTteR thaN a greAt plan executeD
poOrly.

------
fUssYZeus
is it sAfe iN tHis thRead to Bring Up The human cost of AMazoN's (and likeLy
bY eXteNsIon BeZO's) almoSt sOciOpathic Pursuit OF suCcESS? i wOuldn't deny
Amazon is A sUCCeSsful comPany, buT HoW mANy horror StOriEs frOM EmploYees
BEiNg ground To dust UNdEr Their maNaGement HaVe cRosSed HN'S FronT page? HOw
many coMpaniES are now refusinG To do business wITh aMAzON becAusE of the
iron-fIsteD RequIremENtS enFOrcemEnt on ThEIr SUppliers? How many saleS oN
AmazoN are oF shit quality, rIpoff produCTS No better Than YOu'D Find on the
streeTs of HOng Kong?

I meAN eschewiNg any And all coRporate, soCIAl, and ethIcaL reSpoNsiBILiTy
will definitELY makE yOu a trucK loAd of monEy, bUt I WouLdn'T cAll it exacTly
a net gAiN fOr AlL inVolveD.

~~~
DizzystaR
I Had A rOomMate wHO workeD in thE AmaZoN wARehOuse. He sAId IT Was vErY cHill
And EaSy worK. MinD ThaT he was sOmeone who Was A Day-lAbOrEr, workeD in
filthy factOrIes, and so on, So It's PossibLE Contrast Principals are at play
here.

aS for the QuaLity oF the Products, tHerE are maNy 3rD Party sEllers On AmaZoN
whO ARe selLINg GarBaGe. This is unFORtuNate, bUt That'S a tough Battle for
Amazon or tHE coMpeting sellerS to Lock DOWn.

i'm nOT sURe wHy YOu'd DEFend the supplierS who refuse To SElL due to iron
FIstEd PolicieS, yet comPlain ABout the Quality of The producTs Sold. aMAzoN
had / has to dO somethiNg to clean
 or group, then
have every one commit  to t hedec is ionandnot whine abou t  how  they should have
done  what  _ I _ sa i dwe sh ould do .  Y o u  di sa gr ee,  b u tyou c omm it to t he decisio n
o fthe group fo r  c ohesion an d p roductivity. 

I t's al so  am eanstopreve nt gro u pthink . No onesh o uld be thought p oo rlyof
_for_ disagree i ng ,  so everyone s houldbe gi v i ngall  their tho ug hts,e ven one s 
t h a t  co n tradict whatthe group i s  th inking .Jus t  so lo ng as  t h eyget those
p oint s out bef ore th e  decisi o n is ma de, of  co urs e.
~ ~~ 
k eva nE xac t ly . N o  ma tter how  g oo d anidea i s ,  ifpeo plein th e team are sa bot agin g 
it  beca use t heydo n't l ike it  you' ll  have a bad tim e. A  variatio n o nPat to n's
q u ote: A  me dio cre pla n execu t edwe l l is  better than a gre at p la n execut ed
poo r ly .------
F us syZ eusI s  it s afei nthis thr ead to br in g up th ehumanco stofAmazo n 's ( and li kely
byexten s ion Bezo's) al m ost sociopath i cp u rs u it o f s uccess? I w ould n 't d enyA ma zon is asucce ss f ul company, but how ma ny  horro r sto ries from emp loyees
bei n g ground t o du s tu nder their man ageme nt have cr o ssed HN' s fro nt page?  How
many c ompanies  ar e n owref u s in g to do busin e s s wi th  Amazon  be cause o f t heiro n-f is ted requi rementsen fo rc em ent  on t h eir supp li ers ?How  many saleson
Am azon  a re ofshit qu a li t y , ri po ff  pro duc ts  no b ette r  th an you' d find on  th e 
str ee ts  of Hon g Kong?

I me an  eschewing  a nyand al l corporat e, social, and ethicalr esponsi bil ity
w illdefinitel y m ake yo u a truckload o f mon ey , b u t  I wo u l dn 'tca ll it exac t l y
a  netga in f or allinvolved.

~~~
diz z yst ar
I had a ro omm atew h owor k ed inth e  Am a z on warehouse. H e said itwa s  v ery chilla ndea sy work . Mindthath e was s omeone wh o was a d ay -lab o r er,  worked in 
filthyfactories ,  ands oon, s o i t's po ss ibl e con trastp rin cipal s areat  playhere. 
As for t he quality of the produ cts, t hereare  many 3rd  pa r tysellers o n Am azon
who a resel linggar b age.This is  un f ortun ate, but that' s  a  to u g hbattle forA m a zon  or t hec ompeti ng s ellers to lock do w n.

I'm not su re w h y  yo u'd defe nd  the suppliers  wh or e fuse tose ll due to i ron
fist ed polic ies, y et com plain a b o ut the qu alit y o f the pro duc ts sold. A ma zo n 
had /  has  t o do s omethi n g to c lean
 or_group, then
have_everyone commit to the_decision and_not_whine about_how_they should have
done_what _I_ said_we should do. You_disagree, but you_commit_to the decision
of the group for cohesion and productivity.

It's also a means to prevent_groupthink._No one_should_be_thought poorly of
_for_ disagreeing, so_everyone should be giving all_their thoughts,_even ones
that contradict what the group is thinking._Just_so long as_they get those
points out before the decision is made,_of course.

~~~
kevan
Exactly. No matter how good_an idea is,_if_people_in the team are_sabotaging
it because they don't like it_you'll have a bad time. A_variation on Patton's
quote: A mediocre plan executed_well is better than a great_plan executed
poorly.

------
FussyZeus
Is it safe in_this thread_to bring up the human_cost of Amazon's_(and likely
by_extension Bezo's) almost_sociopathic pursuit of success? I wouldn't_deny
Amazon is a_successful company, but how many horror_stories_from employees
being ground_to_dust_under their_management have crossed_HN's_front page?_How
many_companies are now refusing to do_business_with Amazon because of the
iron-fisted requirements enforcement_on their suppliers? How_many_sales on
Amazon are of_shit quality, ripoff products no_better than you'd find on the
streets_of Hong_Kong?

I mean_eschewing any and all corporate, social, and ethical responsibility
will definitely make_you a truck load of money,_but I wouldn't call_it exactly
a_net_gain for all_involved.

~~~
dizzystar
I_had a_roommate who worked in the Amazon warehouse._He said_it was very chill
and easy work._Mind that he was_someone_who was a day-laborer, worked in
filthy_factories, and so on, so it's_possible contrast principals are at_play
here.

As_for_the quality of the products,_there are many 3rd party sellers_on Amazon
who are_selling garbage. This is unfortunate, but that's_a_tough battle for
Amazon or the competing_sellers_to lock down.

I'm not sure why_you'd_defend_the suppliers who refuse to_sell due to iron
fisted policies, yet_complain about the quality of the products sold. Amazon
had_/ has to_do something to clean