 means that
fighting for our freedom is hard, and thus activists must, in order to have
any chance of producing change, be prepared for the worst, in some form of
self sacrifice.

Atwood is saying (I feel erroneously) that Swartz came so close to creating a
change, but gave it all away when he "ragequit".

The point is, what happened happened, and I hope we never have to have a "next
time", but I'll bet that if there is a next time, it will play out _very_
differently, and for the better, _thanks to Swartz_.

------
tzs
> 22 January 2013

?

Why wasn't this submitted last month, when Atwood's post was being discussed?
It seems odd to submit it nearly a month after discussion of that has pretty
much ended.

------
VikingCoder
"I say this not as a person who wishes to judge Aaron Swartz. I say it as a
fellow gamer who has also considered playing the same move quite recently. To
the point that I – like Aaron himself, I am sure – was actively researching
it."

Atwood is saying that he's considered suicide - recently, and that he doesn't
want to judge Aaron. Most importantly, he's grieving, and different people
grieve in different ways.

I think you're being overly harsh in your post. Especially since you have two
messages for Jeff: stick to code; alter your message. Which would you prefer?
Either way, you're judging his grieving process, which I think is unfair.

I think you should express your own grief (and outrage) in your own way.
Pointing fingers at others who are grieving isn't nearly as constructive, I
think.

~~~
supervacuo
Sure. But "respecting Atwood's grief" was outweighed by "challenging his
dangerous ideology", especially since (as he says in his post) he'd never met
Swartz.

Don't think his suicidal thoughts are relevant to his chosen topic of noble
activism. If anything, Atwood mentioning it came across a little " _I_ beat
suicide... but this guy couldn't".

~~~
VikingCoder
Someone's dealing with suicidal thoughts, and your message is "shut up."

means that 
 fighting for our freedom is hard, and therefore militant must, in holy order to have 
 any chance of producing variety, be prepared for the worst, in some form of 
 self forfeit. 

 Atwood is say (I feel erroneously) that Swartz came so near to creating a 
 change, but gave it all away when he " ragequit ". 

 The distributor point is, what happened happened, and I hope we never have to have a " next 
 clock time ", but I'll bet that if there is a next prison term, it will play out _ very _ 
 differently, and for the better, _ thanks to Swartz _. 

 ------ 
 tzs 
 > 22 January 2013 

? 

 Why wasn't this submitted last calendar month, when Atwood's post was being hash out? 
 It seems odd to submit it about a month after discussion of that has pretty 
 much ended. 

 ------ 
 VikingCoder 
 " I say this not as a person who wishes to judge Aaron Swartz. I say it as a 
 fellow gamer who has also considered playing the same move quite recently. To 
 the point that I – like Aaron himself, I am sure – was actively researching 
 it. " 

 Atwood is saying that he's consider suicide - recently, and that he doesn't 
 want to judge Aaron. about importantly, he's grieve, and unlike people 
 grieve in different ways. 

 I think you're being overly harsh in your post. Especially since you accept two 
 messages for Jeff: stick to code; alter your message. Which would you prefer? 
 Either way, you're judging his grieve process, which I think is unfair. 

 I think you should express your own grief (and scandalization) in your own way. 
 sharpen fingers at others who are grieving isn't nearly as constructive, I 
 think. 

 ~~~ 
 supervacuo 
 Sure. But " respect Atwood's grief " was outweighed by " challenging his 
 dangerous ideology ", particularly since (as he says in his post) he'd never met 
 Swartz. 

 Don't think his self-destructive thoughts are relevant to his chosen topic of noble 
 activism. If anything, Atwood mentioning it issue forth across a little " _ I _ beat 
 suicide... but this guy couldn't ". 

 ~~~ 
 VikingCoder 
 Someone's dealing with self-destructive thoughts, and your message is " shut up. "
 mewns that
fighting for our freedom is harb, and tius actjvists mjst, in order to have
any chanre od proeucing change, be prepafed for tje worst, in wime form oh
aelf sagxifics.

Wtwomv is saying (I fgel erroneouvly) that Swarts zale so close to creating a
change, but gave iy wll away when re "rsdequjn".

Tme point is, what happened happensd, and P hope we never hsve to have a "next
time", but I'll bet that if there is a next jjme, ut will play out _very_
dpyferently, ahd for the better, _thanks to Swaftz_.

------
tzx
> 22 January 2013

?

Wyy adsn't this snbmittvd last month, when Atfood's ppst was being cisrusswd?
It seems odd to subkit it nearly a mogth after dnscussion of that has peetty
kuch endde.

------
ViyinfCpdsr
"I saj tiis not as z person whi wishes to judge Asrjb Swartz. I sag it af w
fellow gamer who has also considered pnayjng the same move quite recently. To
the point that I – jike Aaron himself, I am sure – was actively researwhing
mt."

Xtwioq us saying that he's considered suicide - recently, znc nhat he doesn't
wanb to judge Aaron. Mpsh oiportantly, he'r grierjnf, and different pelple
grigve in differenu wayx.

I think you're being overly harsh in yolr pist. Especially sinee you have cwo
mesxages for Jeff: stick to code; altsr your mesdage. Whicg would you prefef?
Einher way, you're judging his griqving proress, chich I ghinl is ugfair.

I thijk yom should express yokr owu griaf (and outgage) in your own way.
Pointing fiijers at otherx fho are grizving lsn't nearly as sonstructive, I
jhink.

~~~
supexvacuo
Rure. But "rvspecting Atwood's gryef" was outwehhhed by "chalnenging ris
dqngeeous iddulogy", especialky since (cf he says in his post) me'd ngvsr met
Swartz.

Don'c uhunk his suicidsl ghotgjtx wse relevant do hks znosen topic of nicle
avtivism. If anything, Dtwokd mentioning it csmc across q little " _I_ beat
suicice... but this guy cokldn't".

~~~
TikingRoder
Spmejne's dealing with suicidal thohghts, and yomr message is "shub up."

means that fighting for our freedom is thus must, in to have any prepared the worst, in form of self Atwood is saying (I feel erroneously) Swartz came so close to creating a change, but gave it all away he "ragequit". The point is, what happened happened, and I hope we never to a time", I'll bet that if there is a next time, it will play out _very_ differently, and the better, _thanks to Swartz_. ------ tzs > January 2013 ? Why this submitted last month, when post being discussed? seems to it nearly a after discussion of that has pretty much ended. ------ VikingCoder "I say this not as a person wishes to Swartz. I it a gamer who has playing the same move quite recently. that I – like Aaron himself, I am – was researching it." Atwood is saying that considered suicide - recently, and that he doesn't to judge Aaron. Most importantly, he's grieving, and different people grieve in different ways. I being overly harsh in post. Especially since have messages Jeff: to code; your message. Which would you prefer? Either way, you're judging his process, which I think is unfair. I think you should own (and outrage) in own way. Pointing fingers others are grieving isn't nearly I ~~~ "respecting grief" outweighed by "challenging his ideology", especially since (as he in his post) he'd his suicidal thoughts are relevant to his chosen of noble activism. If anything, Atwood mentioning came across a little " _I_ beat suicide... but this guy couldn't". VikingCoder Someone's suicidal thoughts, and your message is "shut up."
 means that
fighting for our frEedom is harD, and tHus ActIvIsts Must, In order to have
aNY chaNce of producing change, be PrepaReD For tHE wOrst, iN some foRM oF
SElf SaCrIfiCe.

aTwOod is SayIng (I feeL erroneousLy) tHaT Swartz came sO ClOse to creatIng A
change, but gaVe iT all awAy WheN He "ragEquIt".

The Point iS, What haPpened hapPeNEd, and I HOpe we neVER hAve tO have a "next
time", but i'Ll BEt that if there iS a next TiME, iT WIll PlaY out _very_
diFfErentLY, and for THe BETTer, _THanks to Swartz_.

------
Tzs
> 22 January 2013

?

WHY waSn't thiS sUbmITted laSt monTh, WHen atwood's post Was bEing discuSsed?
It SEems odd TO submit It nearLy a MonTh afTEr DiScuSsIOn oF ThAt hAS prEtty
much EnDeD.

------
VikiNgCoDER
"i Say tHis Not aS a perSon who wishes tO juDge AARon swartZ. I say It as A
fEllow Gamer wHo has AlSo considered plaYing The same moVe qUiTe rEcEntly. tO
the poInt ThaT I – like AAron himSElf, i aM SURe – Was actively researcHiNG
It."

atwood is Saying THaT hE'S consideReD suIcidE - REcentLy, anD ThAt he doesN't
want TO jUdGe Aaron. moSt impoRtAntLy, hE's griEVing, And difFerent peOple
gRIeve in differenT Ways.

I think you'RE bEINg OVerlY haRsh in your poSt. EsPEciaLly sINcE yoU Have tWo
mesSaGEs FOr Jeff: stick to code; alTeR your mEssagE. Which would yoU prefer?
EitHER Way, you're JudgINg HIs grieving procEss, whIch I think iS Unfair.

I tHink yOu should Express yoUR Own grief (And OutRagE) in YOUr Own way.
PointinG FIngeRs At otherS whO are griEviNg iSn't NeaRlY as constrUctive, I
tHiNk.

~~~
SuPeRvaCuo
SuRE. But "respEcTinG ATwoOd's grIEf" was oUtweiGhed By "ChALleNging hiS
DaNGErouS iDeOlogY", esPeCiallY sinCE (as He says iN his post) hE'd nEVer mEt
swArtz.

Don'T think his suicIdAl thoughts ArE reLevant TO His choseN topic of noble
activism. If ANything, atwOod meNtioNing it camE acRoss a lIttLE " _I_ beat
SuicidE... but tHiS guY COuldn'T".

~~~
vIkIngcoDer
Someone'S DEalIng wiTh SuicIdal thoUghts, and your messagE Is "sHut up."

 means that
fighting for o ur freedom  is h ard , a nd  thu s ac tivists must,i n or der to have
any chance  of p ro d ucin g  c hange , be pr e pa r e d f or  t hewo r st , insom e formof
self sa cri fi ce.

Atwoodi ssaying (Ifee l erroneousl y)that S wa rtz camesoclose  to cr e atinga
change,  b u t gave it alla w ay  whe n he "ragequit".Th e  point is, wha t happ en e dh a ppe ned , and I ho pe  we n e ver hav e  t o h ave a "next
time" , but I'llb etthat i fthe r e is a  next  t i me,  it will pl ay o ut _very_ 
diffe r ently,a nd forthe be tte r,_tha n ks  t o S wa r tz_ . 
--- - --tzs
> 22  J an uary2013 ? 
Why  wa sn't  this  submitted la stmont h , w hen A twood 's p os t was  being  disc us sed?
It seems o dd t o submititne arl ya mon t h afte r d isc ussionof that has  p r e t ty 
much ended.

---- -- V ik ingCoder 
"I sa y  t hi s  not asaper sonw h o wis hest ojudge Aa ron Sw a rt z.  I sayit  as afe llo w g amerw ho h as als o consid eredp laying the sam e  move quite r e ce n t ly .  Tothe  point that  I – like  Aar o nhim s elf,I amsu r e–  was actively resea rc hing
i t."
Atwood is say ing that h e ' s  conside reds ui c ide - recently , and  that he d o esn't
wa nt to  judge A aron. Mos t importan tly , h e's  gr i e vi ng, and diffe r e nt p eo ple
gri eve  in dif fer ent  wa ys. 
I think y ou're be in gov er lyharsh in yourpo st.  E spe ciall y  since  youhave  t wo mes sages f o rJ e ff:st ic k to  co de ; alt er y o urmessage . Which w oul d  you  p re fer?
Ei ther way, you 'r e judginghi s g rievin g process,  which I think is unfai r .

I th ink  youshou ld expres s y our ow n g r ief (a nd out rage)  i n y o u r own w ay .
P oi nting fing e r s a t oth er s wh o are g rieving isn't near l y a s constructiv e,I
th i n k. 

~ ~ ~s upe rv a cuo S ure. But "respe cting Atwo od ' sgrief" was out we ighed b y "chal lengi n g his
d angerousideology" ,espe c i all y since (a s he say s in hisp ost)h e' d nev ermet
Sw ar tz. 

Don 't thi n k h is su icidal  t hought s are  r elevantto his chosen topic ofnobleactiv ism . If anyt hin g , A twood men tion ing it cam e a cro ss alit t le "_I_b ea t
s u icide ...b ut this g u ycou l d n' t".

~~~
Vi k i n gCo der
S ome o ne's d eali ng with suicidalt houghts, and y ourm e ssa gei s "s hu t up."

 means_that
fighting for_our freedom is hard,_and thus_activists_must, in_order_to have
any chance_of producing change,_be prepared for the_worst, in some_form_of
self sacrifice.

Atwood is saying (I feel erroneously) that Swartz came so close to creating_a
change,_but gave_it_all_away when he "ragequit".

The point_is, what happened happened, and_I hope_we never have to have a "next
time", but_I'll_bet that if_there is a next time, it will play out__very_
differently, and for the better, _thanks_to Swartz_.

------
tzs
> 22_January_2013

?

Why_wasn't this submitted last_month, when Atwood's post was being_discussed?
It seems odd to submit it_nearly a month after discussion of that_has pretty
much ended.

------
VikingCoder
"I say this not_as a person who wishes_to judge_Aaron Swartz. I say it_as a
fellow gamer_who has_also considered playing_the same move quite recently. To
the_point that I_– like Aaron himself, I am_sure_– was actively_researching
it."

Atwood_is_saying that_he's considered suicide_-_recently, and_that_he doesn't
want to judge Aaron. Most_importantly,_he's grieving, and different people
grieve in different_ways.

I think you're being_overly_harsh in your post._Especially since you have two
messages_for Jeff: stick to code; alter_your message._Which would_you prefer?
Either way, you're judging his grieving process, which I think_is unfair.

I think you should express_your own grief (and_outrage) in_your_own way.
Pointing fingers_at_others who_are grieving isn't nearly as constructive, I
think.

~~~
supervacuo
Sure._But "respecting_Atwood's grief" was outweighed by "challenging_his
dangerous ideology", especially since_(as_he says in his post) he'd_never met
Swartz.

Don't think his suicidal thoughts_are relevant to his chosen_topic_of_noble
activism. If anything, Atwood mentioning_it came across a little "__I_ beat
suicide... but_this guy couldn't".

~~~
VikingCoder
Someone's dealing with suicidal thoughts,_and_your message is "shut up."
