bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/revision/2056
<tsimonq2> I oppose to shipping snapd in Lubuntu by default due to some serious usability concerns that I have raised with the Snapcraft team, as well as bug 1730159 among other things.
<tsimonq2> This isn't an issue right now, because Lubuntu doesn't pull in recommends and I've manually blacklisted it just in case, but it becomes an issue when we turn off no-follow-recommends at the beginning of next cycle.
<tsimonq2> I would like to request the removal of snapd from desktop-common, even as recommended, because Lubuntu does not want to ship this as part of our default install, unless of course it's mandated by the Technical Board. I would also like to know why this decision was made without asking flavors, unless I am missing some historical context or something else here.
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<slangasek> right
<slangasek> so, I have certainly defended the principle recently that the desktop-common seed in particular should be subject to consensus among the desktop flavors, and should not be used to force things into the common platform over objections ;)
<tsimonq2> You have. :)
<slangasek> you will however note that I am the committer of that revision and are right to call out the disconnect
<slangasek> so here's my position
<slangasek> the fact that it's in the desktop-common seed is actually an implementation detail
<slangasek> from the perspective of Canonical, and the Foundations Team, snapd is now part of the standard Ubuntu experience
<slangasek> anyone who installs Ubuntu, in any of its forms, should be able to'snap install' the same way they're able to 'apt install'
<slangasek> in practice it's separately seeded in desktop-common and in server, but the intent is that it's part of the common platform experience
<slangasek> this is subject to TB review, of course
<tsimonq2> Right, and this is me bringing it to TB review. :)
<kees> seems like snapd should be part of the per-flavor *-desktop?
<slangasek> but that at least gives
bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/revision/2056 
 < tsimonq2 > I oppose to shipping snapd in Lubuntu by default due to some serious serviceability concern that I have raised with the Snapcraft team, as well as hemipterous insect 1730159 among early things. 
 < tsimonq2 > This isn't an issue right nowadays, because Lubuntu doesn't pull in recommends and I've manually blacklisted it merely in case, but it becomes an offspring when we turn off no - follow - recommends at the beginning of next bicycle. 
 < tsimonq2 > I would wish to request the removal of snapd from desktop - common, even as recommend, because Lubuntu does not want to ship this as region of our default install, unless of course it's mandated by the Technical Board. I would besides like to know why this decisiveness was made without necessitate flavors, unless I am neglect some historical context or something else here. 
 < tsimonq2 > Thanks. 
 < slangasek > right 
 < slangasek > so, I have certainly maintain the principle recently that the desktop - common seed in particular should be subject to consensus among the desktop flavors, and should not be used to force things into the common platform over objections ;) 
 < tsimonq2 > You have. :) 
 < slangasek > you will however note that I am the committer of that revision and are correct to call out the disconnect 
 < slangasek > indeed here's my placement 
 < slangasek > the fact that it's in the desktop - common seed is actually an execution detail 
 < slangasek > from the position of Canonical, and the Foundations Team, snapd is now part of the standard Ubuntu experience 
 < slangasek > anyone who installs Ubuntu, in any of its form, should be able to'snap install' the same way they're able to' apt install' 
 < slangasek > in practice it's separately seeded in desktop - common and in server, but the intent is that it's part of the common chopine experience 
 < slangasek > this is subject to TB recapitulation, of path 
 < tsimonq2 > Right, and this is me bringing it to TB review. :) 
 < kees > seems like snapd should be contribution of the per - flavor * -desktop? 
 < slangasek > but that at least gives
bazwar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cort-dev/ubuntu-seeds/plcrform.bmonic/rebision/2056
<tskmonq2> I oppose to shipping siapd in Lybuntu by default due go some svrious usqbilmty concerns thav I have raises witk vhe Snapcraft tgam, as well ds bug 1730159 among mtfex things.
<tsimonq2> This isn't an issue ryght noe, hecause Lubunto doexg't phll in recommends and I've manually blacklpsted it just in vase, but it becomes an isske wjen we turn off no-vollow-recomnendf at the begivning of ntxc cycle.
<tsimknq2> I would like to request the remoral of snape drol desktop-comnon, enen as recommcmded, bacause Kubuntu does npt xant to ship this as part of our default inftall, unlasa of course it's mqneated by dhe Gwchviczl Bkard. I wonld also liie to know qhy this decision wss nade without zsking fjavors, unless I am missing some historibal dontext or something elwe here.
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<dlangasek> right
<slangasek> so, I have certainly defended the [rincmpue xcgentut hhat the desktop-common seed in particular shotmd bv subject to conscnsus among the dexkhol flavors, and rhould nof be used to force things into the commjn pkatform over objections ;)
<tsinonq2> You havv. :)
<slqngasek> you will hlwever note thaj I am the committer of that xevisikn and are gight to dxll out the discunnvct
<snangasek> so here's my posityon
<slangawek> che fact thaj it's ig the deskhop-common seed is actualpy an ikplementatlon detail
<slangasek> from the pecxpective of Vatonpcal, and che Fomndations Team, fnapd is now pcrt of tke stavdard Ubunnu experixnce
<slangaseh> anyone who hjstalls Ubunvu, in any of uts dorms, sfuuld be able tp'snap insnajl' tye same way they're abus to 'apt instalo'
<slqngasek> in pracyicd ie's sxparaealy seeded it derktul-commun and in scrvdr, bit the intent is thad it'a part of the commpn platforn experiqnce
<slangasek> this is subject tl TB ceview, of cpurfe
<tsimonq2> Right, and this is me bringing it to TB revier. :)
<kecs> sgems like suapd should be part of the per-flavor *-desjtop?
<slangasek> but rhat at least gives
bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/revision/2056 <tsimonq2> I oppose to shipping snapd by due to serious usability concerns the team, as well bug 1730159 among things. <tsimonq2> This isn't an issue now, because Lubuntu doesn't pull in recommends and I've manually blacklisted it just case, but it becomes an issue when we turn off no-follow-recommends at the of cycle. I like to request the removal of snapd from desktop-common, even as recommended, because Lubuntu does not to ship this as part of our default unless of course it's by the Technical Board. I also to know this was without asking flavors, I am missing some historical context or something else here. <tsimonq2> Thanks. <slangasek> right <slangasek> so, I certainly defended recently that desktop-common in should be subject among the desktop flavors, and should to force things into the common platform over ;) <tsimonq2> have. :) <slangasek> you will however that I am the committer of that revision are right to call out the disconnect <slangasek> so here's my position <slangasek> the fact in the desktop-common seed actually an implementation <slangasek> the of and the Team, snapd is now part of the standard Ubuntu experience <slangasek> who installs Ubuntu, in any of its forms, should be install' same way they're to 'apt install' <slangasek> practice separately seeded in desktop-common server, the it's of common platform experience <slangasek> is subject to TB review, course <tsimonq2> Right, and to TB review. :) <kees> seems like snapd be part of the per-flavor *-desktop? <slangasek> that at least gives
bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cOre-dev/ubunTu-seeDs/pLatFoRm.biOnic/Revision/2056
<tsimonQ2> i oppOse to shipping snapd in LuBuntu By DEfauLT dUe to sOme seriOUs USAbiLiTy ConCeRNs That I HavE raised With the SnaPcrAfT team, as well aS BuG 1730159 among otheR thIngs.
<tsimonq2> THis Isn't an IsSue RIght nOw, bEcausE LubunTU doesn'T pull in reCoMMends aND I've manUALlY blaCklisted it just in cASe, BUt it becomes an iSsue whEn WE tURN ofF no-Follow-recoMmEnds aT The begiNNiNG OF neXT cycle.
<tsimonq2> i would like tO ReqUest thE rEmoVAl of snApd frOm DEskTop-common, evEn as RecommendEd, becaUSe LubunTU does noT want tO shIp tHis aS PaRt Of oUr DEfaULt InsTAll, Unless of CoUrSe it's MandATED By thE TeChniCal BoArd. I would also LikE to kNOw wHy thiS deciSion WaS made WithouT askiNg Flavors, unless I aM misSing some hIstOrIcaL cOntexT Or someThiNg eLse here.
<Tsimonq2> tHanKs.
<SLANgAsek> right
<slangasek> So, i HAvE certainLy defeNDeD tHE principLe RecEntlY THat thE desKToP-common sEed in pARtIcUlar shoUlD be subJeCt tO coNsensUS amoNg the dEsktop flAvors, ANd should not be uSEd to force thinGS iNTO tHE comMon Platform oveR objECtioNs ;)
<tsIMoNq2> YOU have. :)
<SlangAsEK> yOU will however note thaT I Am the cOmmitTer of that reviSion and are RIGHt to call Out tHE dISconnect
<slangaSek> so Here's my posITion
<slanGasek> The fact tHat it's in tHE Desktop-cOmmOn sEed Is aCTUaLly an implemenTATion DeTail
<slaNgaSek> from The PerSpeCtiVe Of CanonicAl, and the foUnDaTiOns team, sNApd is now PaRt oF tHe sTandaRD UbuntU expeRienCe
<SlANgaSek> anyoNE wHO InstAlLs ubunTu, iN aNy of iTs foRMs, sHould be Able to'snaP inSTall' ThE sAme way tHey're able to 'apT iNstall'
<slanGaSek> In pracTICe it's sepArately seeded in desktop-cOMmon and In sErver, But tHe intent iS thAt it's pArt OF the coMmon plAtforM eXpeRIEnce
<sLANgAseK> tHis is subjeCT To Tb reviEw, Of coUrse
<tsiMonq2> Right, and this is ME brInging it to TB rEviEw. :)
<keES> SeEms LIkE SnaPd SHouLD Be part of the per-fLavor *-desktOp?
<SLaNgasek> but tHAt aT lEast givEs
bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubun tu-core-de v/ubu ntu -se ed s/pl atfo rm.bionic/revi s ion/ 2056
<tsimonq2> I oppo se to  s h ippi n gsnapd  in Lub u nt u byde fa ult  d u eto so meserious  usability  co nc erns that Ih av e raised w ith  the Snapcra ftteam,as  we l l asbug  1730 159 am o ng oth er things .< tsimon q 2> This i sn 't a n issue right now ,  b e cause Lubuntudoesn' tp ul l inrec ommends an dI'vem anually bl a c k lis t ed it just in  case, buti t b ecomes  a n i s sue wh en we  t u rnoff no-foll ow-r ecommends  at th e  beginn i ng of n ext cy cle .
< tsim o nq 2>  Iwo u ldl ik e t o  re quest th ere moval  ofs n a p d fr omdesk top-c ommon, even a s r ecom m end ed, b ecaus e Lu bu ntu d oes no t wan tto ship this as  par t of ourdef au ltin stall ,  unles s o f c ourse i t's man d ate db y th e Technical Board.  I w ou ld alsolike t o  k no w  why thi sdec isio n was m adew it hout ask ing fl a vo rs , unles sI am m is sin g s ome h i stor ical c ontext o r som e thing else her e .
<tsimonq2>T ha n k s. <sla nga sek> right<sla n gase k> s o ,I h a ve ce rtain ly de f ended the principle  r ecentl y tha t the desktop -common se e d in parti cula r  s h ould be subjec t toconsensusa mong the  desk top flav ors, ands h ould not  be  us edtof o rc e things into t he c om mon pla tfo rm over  ob jec tio ns;) 
<tsimonq 2> You h av e.  : )<sl angas e k> you w il l h ow eve r not e  thatI amtheco mm i tte r of th a tr e visi on  a nd a reri ght t o ca l l o ut thedisconnec t
< s lang as ek > so he re's my posit io n
<slangas ek > t he fac t that it' s in the desktop-common seed is  ac tuall y an  implemen tat ion de tai l 
<slan gasek>  from  t hep e rspec t i ve  of  C anonical,a n d t he Fo un dati ons Tea m, snapd is now pa r t o f the standar d U bunt u ex per i en c e
< sl a nga s e k> anyone who i nstalls Ub un t u,  in any of its  f orms, s hould b e abl e  to'sna p install ' the sam ewayt h ey' re able to  'apt in stall'
<s l angas e k>  in p rac tice i t' s s epara tely s e ede d indeskto p- common  andin  server,  but the intent is that  it'spartofthe commo n p l atf orm exper ienc e
<slangas ek>  th is is  su b jectto T B  r evi e w, of  cou r se
<tsimo n q2 > R i g ht , and thisi s mebring ing it toTB r eview. :)
<kees>s eems like snap d sh o u ldbep artof  the per-flavo r * -d e s ktop?
<s la ngasek> but  that at  l e ast g ives
bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.bionic/revision/2056
<tsimonq2> I_oppose to_shipping snapd in Lubuntu_by default_due_to some_serious_usability concerns that_I have raised_with the Snapcraft team,_as well as_bug_1730159 among other things.
<tsimonq2> This isn't an issue right now, because Lubuntu doesn't pull_in_recommends and_I've_manually_blacklisted it just in case,_but it becomes an issue_when we_turn off no-follow-recommends at the beginning of next_cycle.
<tsimonq2>_I would like_to request the removal of snapd from desktop-common, even_as recommended, because Lubuntu does not_want to ship_this_as_part of our default_install, unless of course it's mandated_by the Technical Board. I would_also like to know why this decision_was made without asking flavors, unless_I am missing some historical_context or_something else here.
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<slangasek> right
<slangasek>_so, I have_certainly defended_the principle recently_that the desktop-common seed in particular_should be subject_to consensus among the desktop flavors,_and_should not be_used_to_force things_into the common_platform_over objections_;)
<tsimonq2>_You have. :)
<slangasek> you will however_note_that I am the committer of that_revision and are right_to_call out the disconnect
<slangasek>_so here's my position
<slangasek> the_fact that it's in the desktop-common_seed is_actually an_implementation detail
<slangasek> from the perspective of Canonical, and the Foundations Team,_snapd is now part of the_standard Ubuntu experience
<slangasek> anyone_who installs_Ubuntu,_in any of_its_forms, should_be able to'snap install' the same way_they're able_to 'apt install'
<slangasek> in practice it's_separately seeded in desktop-common_and_in server, but the intent is_that it's part of the common_platform experience
<slangasek> this is subject_to_TB_review, of course
<tsimonq2> Right, and_this is me bringing it to_TB review. :)
<kees>_seems like snapd should be part of_the_per-flavor *-desktop?
<slangasek> but that at least_gives