 i am familiar with that problem; one solution is to have much fewer docs, but more sections so that you have a single starting point to give people
<katco> sinzui: and when these situations arise, you just point and go: "go forth and learn"
<natefinch> sinzui: I understand the frustration.  hopefully we can help people remember that documentation exists
<natefinch> yep
<katco> it doesn't help that docs is not very navigatable imo
<natefinch> yes, sorry, I thought gdocs was a typo.   Google docs is a terrible place to keep documentation
<katco> natefinch: well, it's not _horrible_, but i feel like there needs to be some sort of indexing mechanism
<natefinch> docs should be at a website with a url that means something
<rick_h_> katco: howdy, I mentioned it to wallyworld last night. There was a small issue that came out of the work to not destroy envs when there's no jenv file that we hit. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1386703
<mup> Bug #1386703: New instance created when bootstrapping an existing env without the jenv file <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386703>
<natefinch> like juju.ubuntu.com/docs
<katco> rick_h_: thanks, i'll have a look. are you all blocked on this or what's going on?
<rick_h_> katco: as an fyi, not sure where it'll fit on the todo list but wanted to bring it front/center as it's an issue for quickstart
<katco> rick_h_: yeah... i'll bring it up to wallyworld_ tonight in our standup
<rick_h_> katco: no blocked, but would be great if the release didn't close one bug and open another right next to it.
<rick_h_> katco: ty
<katco> rick_h_: gotcha. thanks for the ping.
<voidspace> g'night all
<natefinch> I wish godeps didn't say "failed" when it's actually working as designed
i am familiar with that problem; one solution is to have much few doctor, but more sections so that you have a individual start point to give people 
 < katco > sinzui: and when these position arise, you just indicate and go: " go away and learn " 
 < natefinch > sinzui: I understand the frustration.   hopefully we can help people commend that documentation exists 
 < natefinch > yep 
 < katco > it doesn't help that docs is not very navigatable imo 
 < natefinch > yes, sorry, I thought gdocs was a misprint.    Google docs is a terrible place to prevent documentation 
 < katco > natefinch: well, it's not _ horrible _, but i find like there needs to be some kind of indexing mechanism 
 < natefinch > docs should be at a web site with a url that means something 
 < rick_h _ > katco: howdy, I mentioned it to wallyworld last night. There be a small issue that came out of the work to not destroy envs when there's no jenv file that we reach. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1386703 
 < mup > Bug # 1386703: New instance created when bootstrapping an existing env without the jenv file < juju - core: New > < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386703 > 
 < natefinch > like juju.ubuntu.com/docs 
 < katco > rick_h _: thanks, i'll have a look. are you all blocked on this or what's go on? 
 < rick_h _ > katco: as an fyi, not sure where it'll fit on the todo tilt but want to fetch it front / center as it's an issue for quickstart 
 < katco > rick_h _: yeah... i'll bring it up to wallyworld _ tonight in our standup 
 < rick_h _ > katco: no blocked, but would be great if the release didn't close one hemipterous insect and open another right next to it. 
 < rick_h _ > katco: ty 
 < katco > rick_h _: gotcha. thanks for the ping. 
 < voidspace > g'night all 
 < natefinch > I wish godeps didn't say " failed " when it's actually working as designed
 i wm familiar with that prublem; one solutnin is vo have much feder docs, but more sections sl rhat tou have a single starging poinn to give peokle
<katco> sinzui: ais when bkese altuatnois arise, you juxt point atd go: "go forth avd learn"
<natefinch> sinzui: I understand the frishration.  hopefolly eq cah help people remember that documehtation exists
<natefimch> yep
<katco> it doesn't helo thwt docs is not verj navigataboe iii
<natefinch> yds, sorry, I thought gdods was a typo.   Google docs is x terxible place ti kfgp documentavion
<kanco> natefinch: well, it'v not _hprrible_, but i neel nikw there needs to be smme sort of indexigg mechanhsj
<natefinch> docs syoyld bg at d wecwitd wjti a url tjat means somsthing
<rick_h_> katco: howdy, I mentoogvc it to wallgworld lwst night. There was a small issue that bame out of the work to not destroy envs when thgre's no jegv file that we hit. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+tug/1386703
<mu'> Cug #1386703: Kew kbshance created when bootstrapping an existing qhv wpthout the jenv flle <juju-core:New> <htypd://lsonchpad.net/bugs/1386703>
<vatefiudh> like juju.ubuntu.col/docs
<kajco> rixk_h_: thankf, i'lk have a look. are you all boocked on thps oe what's going on?
<riek_h_> katco: as an gyi, npt sure where it'll fit un tge todo lish but wanfdd to bring it ffonn/cender as iu'r an issue for quyckstart
<ketco> xick_h_: yexh... i'kl brigg it up tl wallyworld_ tonight in lur sjandup
<sick_h_> katcl: no blocked, but would be great if the releasg dhdn'n close oue bug and open anoeher right nexj to it.
<riek_h_> kagco: ty
<katck> rick_h_: gotcha. thagks for the phjg.
<voidspace> j'night alj
<natwfinxh> I wirf godeps didn't say "failvd" wheb it's actually worline as designed
i am familiar with that problem; one to much fewer but more sections single point to give <katco> sinzui: and these situations arise, you just point go: "go forth and learn" <natefinch> sinzui: I understand the frustration. hopefully we help people remember that documentation exists <natefinch> yep <katco> it doesn't help that is very imo yes, sorry, I thought gdocs was a typo. Google docs is a terrible place to keep <katco> natefinch: well, it's not _horrible_, but i like there needs to some sort of indexing mechanism docs be at website a that means something katco: howdy, I mentioned it to wallyworld last night. There was a small issue that came out the work destroy envs there's jenv that we hit. Bug #1386703: New instance created when env without the jenv file <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386703> <natefinch> juju.ubuntu.com/docs <katco> thanks, i'll have a look. are all blocked on this or what's going on? katco: as an fyi, not sure where it'll fit on the todo list but wanted it front/center as it's issue for quickstart rick_h_: i'll it to wallyworld_ in our standup <rick_h_> katco: no blocked, but would be great the release didn't close one bug and open another right it. katco: ty <katco> gotcha. thanks for the <voidspace> all <natefinch> I wish say when as
 i am familiar with that probleM; one solutiOn is tO haVe mUcH fewEr doCs, but more sectiONs so That you have a single starTing pOiNT to gIVe PeoplE
<katco> sINzUI: And WhEn TheSe SItUatioNs aRise, you Just point aNd gO: "gO forth and leaRN"
<nAtefinch> siNzuI: I understand The FrustrAtIon.  HOpefuLly We can Help peOPle remEmber that DoCUmentaTIon exisTS
<NaTefiNch> yep
<katco> it doesN'T hELp that docs is noT very nAvIGaTABle Imo
<Natefinch> yEs, Sorry, i Thought GDoCS WAs a TYpo.   Google docs Is a terrible PLacE to keeP dOcuMEntatiOn
<katCo> NAteFinch: well, it'S not _Horrible_, bUt i feeL Like theRE needs tO be somE soRt oF indEXiNg MecHaNIsm
<NAtEfiNCh> dOcs shoulD bE aT a webSite WITH A url ThaT meaNs somEthing
<rick_h_> kaTco: HowdY, i meNtionEd it tO walLyWorld Last niGht. ThErE was a small issue That Came out of The WoRk tO nOt desTRoy envS whEn tHere's no Jenv filE ThaT wE HIT. hTtps://bugs.launchpad.nEt/JUJu-Core/+bug/1386703
<mUp> Bug #1386703: NEW iNsTAnce creaTeD whEn boOTStrapPing AN eXisting eNv withOUt ThE jenv fiLe <Juju-coRe:new> <HttPs://lauNChpaD.net/buGs/1386703>
<natefiNch> liKE juju.ubuntu.com/DOcs
<katco> rick_h_: THaNKS, i'LL havE a lOok. are you alL bloCKed oN thiS Or WhaT'S goinG on?
<riCk_H_> KaTCo: as an fyi, not sure wheRe It'll fiT on thE todo list but wAnted to briNG IT front/ceNter AS iT'S an issue for quiCkstaRt
<katco> ricK_H_: yeah... i'll Bring It up to waLlyworld_ tONIght in ouR stAndUp
<rIck_H_> KAtCo: no blocked, buT WOuld Be Great if The Release DidN't cLosE onE bUg and open Another rIgHt NeXt To iT.
<rick_H_> Katco: ty
<kAtCo> rIcK_h_: gOtcha. THanks fOr the Ping.
<VoIdSPacE> g'night ALl
<NATefiNcH> I Wish GodEpS didn'T say "FAilEd" when iT's actuallY woRKing As DeSigned
 i am familiar with that p roblem; on e sol uti onis  tohave  much fewer do c s, b ut more sections so th at yo uh avea  s ingle  starti n gp o int  t ogiv ep eo ple
< kat co> sin zui: and w hen  t hese situati o ns  arise, yo u j ust point an d g o: "go  f ort h  andlea rn"
< natefi n ch> si nzui: I u nd e rstand the fru s t ra tion .  hopefully we c a nh elp people rem emberth a td o cum ent ation exis ts 
<nat e finch>y ep < k atc o > it doesn'thelp that d o csis not  v ery naviga table  i m o
< natefinch>yes,  sorry, I  thoug h t gdocs was a t ypo.  Go ogl e do c sis  ate r rib l epla c e t o keep d oc um entat ion< k a t co>nat efin ch: w ell, it's not  _h orri b le_ , but  i fe el l ik e the re nee ds to  b e some sort ofinde xing mech ani sm 
<n at efinc h > docs  sh oul d be at  a webs i tewi t h aurl that means som et h i ng 
<rick_h _> kat c o:  h o wdy, I m en tio nedi t  to w ally w or ld lastnight. Th er e was a  s mall i ss uetha t cam e  out  of th e work t o not destroy envs w h en there's no je n v  f i le t hat  we hit. ht tps: / /bug s.la u nc hpa d .net/ juju- co r e/ + bug/1386703
<mup> B ug  #1386 703:New instancecreated wh e n bootstra ppin g  a n  existing envwitho ut the jen v  file <j uju-c ore:New>  <https:/ / l aunchpad .ne t/b ugs /13 8 6 70 3>
<natefinch > like  j uju.ubu ntu .com/do cs<ka tco > r ic k_h_: tha nks, i'l lha ve  a  lo ok. a r e you al lblo ck edon th i s or w hat's  goi ng  o n ?
< rick_h_ >  k a t co:as  a n fy i,no t sur e wh e reit'll f it on the  to d o li st  b ut want ed to bring i tfront/cent er  as  it'sa n  issue f or quickstart
<katco> r i ck_h_:yea h...i'll  bring it  up  to wa lly w orld_tonigh t inou r s t a ndup< r ic k_h _>  katco: no b loc ked,bu t wo uld begreat if the relea s e d idn't close o nebuga n dope n  a n oth er rig h t  next to it.
<r ick_h_> ka tc o :ty
<katco> ric k_ h_: got cha. th anksf or theping.
<vo idspace>g' nigh t all 
<natefinc h> I wis h godepsd idn't sa y "fa ile d" whe nit' s act uallyw ork ing a s desi gn ed
 i_am familiar_with that problem; one_solution is_to_have much_fewer_docs, but more_sections so that_you have a single_starting point to_give_people
<katco> sinzui: and when these situations arise, you just point and go: "go forth_and_learn"
<natefinch> sinzui:_I_understand_the frustration.  hopefully we_can help people remember that_documentation exists
<natefinch>_yep
<katco> it doesn't help that docs is not_very_navigatable imo
<natefinch> yes,_sorry, I thought gdocs was a typo.  _Google docs is a terrible place_to keep documentation
<katco>_natefinch:_well,_it's not _horrible_, but_i feel like there needs to_be some sort of indexing mechanism
<natefinch>_docs should be at a website with_a url that means something
<rick_h_> katco:_howdy, I mentioned it to_wallyworld last_night. There was a small_issue that came_out of_the work to_not destroy envs when there's no_jenv file that_we hit. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1386703
<mup> Bug #1386703: New_instance_created when bootstrapping_an_existing_env without_the jenv file_<juju-core:New>_<https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386703>
<natefinch> like_juju.ubuntu.com/docs
<katco>_rick_h_: thanks, i'll have a look._are_you all blocked on this or what's_going on?
<rick_h_> katco: as_an_fyi, not sure where_it'll fit on the todo_list but wanted to bring it_front/center as_it's an_issue for quickstart
<katco> rick_h_: yeah... i'll bring it up to wallyworld__tonight in our standup
<rick_h_> katco: no_blocked, but would be_great if_the_release didn't close_one_bug and_open another right next to it.
<rick_h_> katco:_ty
<katco> rick_h_:_gotcha. thanks for the ping.
<voidspace> g'night_all
<natefinch> I wish godeps_didn't_say "failed" when it's actually working_as designed