<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: good news!
<bashrc> Is this unemployment down, or people being no longer counted
<TheOpenSourcerer> You'd need to ask the ONC I guess.
<foobarry> we have struggled to hire for ages
<bashrc> when I was unemployed I was recommended to "sign off" on a couple of occasions, even though I was looking for a job
<foobarry> only attracting people on the continent, which means UK people want more munneh
<jussi> foobarry: I think we have had some similar issues with hiring. mind, finding good embedded SW people isnt the easiest...
<bashrc> struggling to hire is laughable given the current situation
<TheOpenSourcerer> It isn't bashrc
<TheOpenSourcerer> The UK has generally failed miserably to educate our kids for the last 20 years in anything remotely "technical"
<foobarry> considering we are paying OK wages
<bashrc> if you're struggling to hire then you're not offering a market clearing rate
<jussi> bashrc: there are plenty of applicants, however, qualified, experienced people...
<foobarry> but everything is 10-15% more expensive than a couple of years ago, so bashrc  thats correct but HR don't agree
<bashrc> there are lots of smart people out there
<foobarry> earning moer money
<bashrc> if you're not offering a market clearing rate then htat's the explanation.  It's not that there aren't enough suitable candidates
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are a lot more "less smart" people than smart ones... Esp. in tech.
<foobarry> $employer is hiring contractors at london market rates, but permies on much lower salary = death of dept.
<diddledan> and then there's idiots... like me.
<jussi> bashrc: I put it to you that you are wrong.
<jussi> but then again, we are looking for very specific skill sets
<bashrc> I'm not seeing many fewer folks coming out of universities.  Are all of those people unemployable.  That doesn't seem plausible
<foobarry> my problem is inflexible HR process
<foobarry> we see good people sometimes but cannot tweak our JD
< jussi > TheOpenSourcerer: good news! 
 < bashrc > Is this unemployment down, or people being no longer counted 
 < TheOpenSourcerer > You'd necessitate to necessitate the ONC I guess. 
 < foobarry > we have struggled to rent for historic period 
 < bashrc > when I was unemployed I was recommended to " sign off " on a couple of occasion, even though I was count for a job 
 < foobarry > only attracting people on the continent, which intend UK people want more munneh 
 < jussi > foobarry: I intend we have experience some similar issues with hiring. mind, discover good embedded SW people is nt the easy... 
 < bashrc > struggling to hire is laughable given the current site 
 < TheOpenSourcerer > It isn't bashrc 
 < TheOpenSourcerer > The UK has generally failed miserably to educate our kids for the last 20 class in anything remotely " technical " 
 < foobarry > considering we are paying OK wages 
 < bashrc > if you're struggling to hire then you're not offering a market clearing rate 
 < jussi > bashrc: there are plenty of applicants, however, qualified, experienced people... 
 < foobarry > but everything is 10 - 15% more expensive than a couple of years ago, so bashrc   that s correct but hour don't match 
 < bashrc > there are lot of fresh people out there 
 < foobarry > earning moer money 
 < bashrc > if you're not offer a market clearing rate then htat's the explanation.   It's not that there aren't enough desirable candidates 
 < TheOpenSourcerer > There are a lot more " less smart " people than smart ones... Esp. in tech. 
 < foobarry > $ employer is hiring contractors at london market rates, but permies on a lot lower wage = death of dept. 
 < diddledan > and then there's idiots... like me. 
 < jussi > bashrc: I put it to you that you are wrong. 
 < jussi > but then again, we are looking for very specific skill sets 
 < bashrc > I'm not watch many fewer folks coming out of university.   Are all of those people unemployable.   That doesn't seem plausible 
 < foobarry > my problem is inflexible hour process 
 < foobarry > we see good people sometimes but cannot tweak our JD
<jusdi> TheOpenSourcerer: good news!
<bashrc> Is jhus unekploymsnt down, or people being no longer clubted
<TyeOpenSourcerer> You'd nded to asn the ONX I juess.
<foobarry> we have stvbggles to kice for ages
<bashtc> when I wav unemployed I wxs recommended to "sign off" on a couplq of ocvadions, even thoogh I ras mooking for a job
<foobarry> only attdacting people on thr continent, which means UK peoole want more munnfh
<jussi> foovarrr: I think we fave had some similar jssues with hiring. mind, finding good embedded WW pelkle isnt the easivst...
<bashrc> strmbgling to hirr is laughable giten rhe current situation
<VheOpenSourcerer> It ysn't bashsc
<CheOpenSourcerer> The YK has cenesallh fakles kiaerablj tk educate kur kids foe the last 20 years im wbything remotsly "teshgical"
<foobarry> considering we are paying OK wages
<bashrc> if you're srruggling to hire thej you're njt offering a market clearing rate
<jussi> bashrc: thare ace pltnbn of qpolicants, however, qualified, experienced people...
<skonagry> but everythinn is 10-15% more expensife tnwn a couple ow years afo, so bashrc  thatd correst bur HR don't agrre
<bashrc> there are lots of wmart people iut there
<foobarry> zarning moer mongy
<bashtc> if you're not offeriny a madket clearijg rate tgdn htat's the expuansthon.  It's not that there arqn't enougi suicable cavdidstes
<ThqOpenSourcfrer> Bvere are a lot morf "lesd vmart" peoppe than smart ones... Esp. in tech.
<foobarry> $employgr hs viring cjntragtors at london market rates, yut permnes on much loweg salary = death of dqpt.
<diddledan> djd then therx's idiots... likw me.
<hussi> bxrhrc: I put it yo you thcu you are qrong.
<jussi> but thek agakh, we are lookiny dor very specifoc rkijl sxts
<bafvrc> I'm not saeine mxmy feder folks cioing out of universities.  Ars all of those peollc unemploiable.  Thwt doesn't seek plausible
<foobarrj> my 'robleo is onfjexible HR process
<foobarry> we aee good oeoile sometimes but cannot tweal our JD
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: good news! <bashrc> Is this or being no counted <TheOpenSourcerer> You'd I <foobarry> we have to hire for <bashrc> when I was unemployed I recommended to "sign off" on a couple of occasions, even though I was for a job <foobarry> only attracting people on the continent, which means UK want munneh foobarry: think we have had some similar issues with hiring. mind, finding good embedded SW people isnt easiest... <bashrc> struggling to hire is laughable given current situation <TheOpenSourcerer> It bashrc <TheOpenSourcerer> The UK has failed to educate kids the 20 years in remotely "technical" <foobarry> considering we are paying OK wages <bashrc> if you're struggling to hire then you're offering a rate <jussi> there plenty applicants, however, qualified, <foobarry> but everything is 10-15% more couple of years ago, so bashrc thats correct HR don't <bashrc> there are lots of smart out there <foobarry> earning moer money <bashrc> if not offering a market clearing rate then htat's the explanation. It's not that there aren't candidates <TheOpenSourcerer> There are lot more "less people smart Esp. tech. <foobarry> is hiring contractors at london market rates, but permies on much salary = death of dept. <diddledan> and then there's idiots... <jussi> I put it you that you are <jussi> then again, we are very skill not many folks coming out of Are all of those people That doesn't seem plausible HR process <foobarry> we see good people sometimes cannot tweak our JD
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: good News!
<bashrc> is thiS unEmpLoYmenT dowN, or people being NO lonGer counted
<TheOpenSourcErer> YOu'D Need TO aSk the oNC I gueSS.
<fOOBarRy> We HavE sTRuGgled To hIre for aGes
<bashrc> wHen i wAs unemployed i WaS recommendEd tO "sign off" on a cOupLe of ocCaSioNS, even ThoUgh I wAs lookINg for a Job
<foobarRy> ONly attRActing pEOPlE on tHe continent, which mEAnS uK people want moRe munnEh
<JUsSI> FooBarRy: I think we HaVe had SOme simiLAr ISSUes WIth hiring. mind, Finding good EMbeDded SW PeOplE Isnt thE easiEsT...
<BasHrc> struggliNg to Hire is lauGhable GIven the CUrrent sItuatiOn
<THeOPenSOUrCeRer> it ISn't BAsHrc
<tHeOPenSourcErEr> the UK Has gENERAlly FaiLed mIseraBly to educate oUr kIds fOR thE last 20 Years In anYtHing rEmotelY "techNiCal"
<foobarry> consIderIng we are pAyiNg oK wAgEs
<basHRc> if yoU're StrUggling To hire tHEn yOu'RE NOt Offering a market cleArING rAte
<jussi> Bashrc: THeRe ARe plenty Of AppLicaNTS, howeVer, qUAlIfied, expEriencED pEoPle...
<foobArRy> but eVeRytHinG is 10-15% moRE expEnsive Than a couPle of YEars ago, so bashrC  Thats correct bUT Hr DOn'T AgreE
<baShrc> there arE lotS Of smArt pEOpLe oUT therE
<foobArRY> eARning moer money
<bashrC> iF you're Not ofFering a market Clearing raTE THen htat's The eXPlANation.  It's not thAt theRe aren't enoUGh suitabLe canDidates
<THeOpenSouRCErer> TherE arE a lOt mOre "LESs Smart" people thAN SmarT oNes... Esp. iN teCh.
<foobaRry> $EmpLoyEr iS hIring contRactors aT lOnDoN mArkEt ratES, but permIeS on MuCh lOwer sALary = deAth of Dept.
<DiDdLEdaN> and theN ThERE's idIoTs... Like Me.
<jUsSi> basHrc: I PUt iT to you tHat you are WroNG.
<jusSi> BuT then agAin, we are lookiNg For very speCiFic Skill sETS
<bashrc> I'M not seeing many fewer folkS Coming oUt oF univErsiTies.  Are alL of Those pEopLE unempLoyablE.  That DoEsn'T SEem plAUSiBle
<FoObarry> my prOBLem Is infLeXiblE HR procEss
<foobarry> we see goOD peOple sometimes But CannOT TwEak OUr jd
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer:good news! 
<bas hrc > I sthis  une mployment down ,  orpeople being no longer  coun te d 
<Th e Op enSou rcerer> Yo u ' d n ee dtoas k  t he ON C I  guess. 
<foobarry > w ehave struggl e dto hire fo r a ges
<bashrc>  wh en I w as  un e mploy edI was  recom m endedto "signof f " on a coupleo f  o ccas ions, even though Iw as looking for  a job 
< f oo b a rry > o nly attrac ti ng pe o ple ont he c o nti n ent, which me ans UK peop l e w ant mo re  mu n neh
<j ussi>  f o oba rry: I thin k we  have had  somes imilari ssues w ith hi rin g.mind ,  f in din gg ood em bed d edSW peopl eis nt th e ea s i e s t... 
<b ashr c> st ruggling to h ire  isl aug hable  give n th ecurre nt sit uatio n<TheOpenSourcer er>It isn'tbas hr c
< Th eOpen S ourcer er>  Th e UK ha s gener a lly  f a i l ed  miserably to educ at e ou r kids f or the la st 20 years  i n a nyth i n g rem otel y  " technica l"
<fo o ba rr y> cons id eringwe  ar e p aying OK w ages
< bashrc>if yo u 're struggling to hire theny ou ' r en ot o ffe ring a mark et c l eari ng r a te 
<j u ssi>bashr c: th e re are plenty of ap pl icants , how ever, qualifi ed, experi e n c ed peopl e... <f o obarry> but ev eryth ing is 10- 1 5% moreexpen sive tha n a coupl e of years  ag o,sobas h r c thats correc t butHR  don'tagr ee
<bas hrc > t her e a re  lots ofsmart pe op le  o ut  th ere
< f oobarry>  e arn in g m oer m o ney
<b ashrc > if  y ou ' renot off e ri n g  a m ar ke t cl ear in g rat e th e n h tat's t he explan ati o n. It 's  not th at there aren 't  enough su it abl e cand i d ates
<Th eOpenSourcerer> There a r e a lot  mo re "l esssmart" pe opl e than  sm a rt one s... E sp. i ntec h . 
<foo b a rr y>$e mployer is h iri ng co nt ract ors atlondon market rate s , b ut permies on  mu ch l o w er  sa l ar y  =de a tho f  dept.
<diddled an> and th en th ere's idio t s.. .like me .
<juss i> ba s hrc: Iput it to  you that  y ou a r e  wr ong.
<juss i> but t hen again ,  we a r elooki ngfor ve ry  sp ecifi c skil l  se ts
<b ashrc>  I 'm not  seei ng  many fe wer folks coming out of  unive rsiti es.   Are all  of tho se people  une mployable.   T hat  does n't seemplau s ib le< fooba rry> my proble m  i s i n f le xible HR pr o c e ss<foob arr y > we s ee g ood people someti m es but cannottwea k our  JD 
<jussi> TheOpenSourcerer:_good news!
<bashrc>_Is this unemployment down,_or people_being_no longer_counted
<TheOpenSourcerer>_You'd need to_ask the ONC_I guess.
<foobarry> we have_struggled to hire_for_ages
<bashrc> when I was unemployed I was recommended to "sign off" on a couple_of_occasions, even_though_I_was looking for a job
<foobarry>_only attracting people on the_continent, which_means UK people want more munneh
<jussi> foobarry: I_think_we have had_some similar issues with hiring. mind, finding good embedded_SW people isnt the easiest...
<bashrc> struggling_to hire is_laughable_given_the current situation
<TheOpenSourcerer> It_isn't bashrc
<TheOpenSourcerer> The UK has generally_failed miserably to educate our kids_for the last 20 years in anything_remotely "technical"
<foobarry> considering we are paying_OK wages
<bashrc> if you're struggling_to hire_then you're not offering a_market clearing rate
<jussi>_bashrc: there_are plenty of_applicants, however, qualified, experienced people...
<foobarry> but_everything is 10-15%_more expensive than a couple of_years_ago, so bashrc__thats_correct but_HR don't agree
<bashrc>_there_are lots_of_smart people out there
<foobarry> earning moer_money
<bashrc>_if you're not offering a market clearing_rate then htat's the_explanation._ It's not that_there aren't enough suitable candidates
<TheOpenSourcerer>_There are a lot more "less_smart" people_than smart_ones... Esp. in tech.
<foobarry> $employer is hiring contractors at london market_rates, but permies on much lower_salary = death of_dept.
<diddledan> and_then_there's idiots... like_me.
<jussi>_bashrc: I_put it to you that you are_wrong.
<jussi> but_then again, we are looking for_very specific skill sets
<bashrc>_I'm_not seeing many fewer folks coming_out of universities.  Are all_of those people unemployable. _That_doesn't_seem plausible
<foobarry> my problem is_inflexible HR process
<foobarry> we see good_people sometimes but_cannot tweak our JD