 what it's taking ages to do - i'm not sure if there's any way of telling at all)
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, I in't think we grabbed the whole thing every time
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'm not sure how to tell what it's doing
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: will we always grab the whole thing in a newly bootstrapped local env?
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, I believe that is currently the case, but I have not looked at the code in question myself
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah, sorry, i thought you were the one that reviewed it
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: so no way to avoid that first download then. hmm.
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: another small question: is there a good place for a charm to stash local state that *doesn't* get managed under git? for example, a unix-domain socket or something that should not be rolled back on failure?
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, there's no canonical location, no
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: i guess $CHARM_DIR/../charm-state might work ok, although it's not great.
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, eww? name it after the charm outside the juju data-dir I would think?
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: or just make up a name in /var/lib which includes the env uuid and the unit name
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, +1
<mramm> hey all: thumper's blog post about his logging library for Go is now up on hacker news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6643805 please upvote it if you think it is interesting, and feel free to comment on hacker news if you think you have something to add.
<natefinch> mramm: if I could get to hacker news, I'd upvote it
<adam_g> what is the proper way to upgrade an environment using a custom built juju and jujud binary pair? someone showed me last week but i've forgotten
<mgz> adam_g: the magic is simply to have the juju you
what it's taking ages to do - i'm not sure if there's any direction of tell at all) 
 < fwereade _ > rogpeppe, I in't think we grabbed the hale thing every time 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: i'm not certain how to distinguish what it's doing 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: will we constantly grab the whole matter in a newly bootstrapped local env? 
 < fwereade _ > rogpeppe, I believe that is currently the case, but I have not looked at the code in doubt myself 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: ah, sorry, i thought you were the one that reviewed it 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: so no way to avoid that inaugural download then. hmm. 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: another small question: is there a good position for a charm to stash local state that * doesn't * get managed under git? for model, a unix - domain socket or something that should not be rolled back on failure? 
 < fwereade _ > rogpeppe, there's no canonical location, no 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: i think $ CHARM_DIR/.. /charm - state might work ok, although it's not great. 
 < fwereade _ > rogpeppe, eww? name it after the charm outside the juju data - dir I would think? 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade _: or just make up a name in /var / lib which includes the env uuid and the unit name 
 < fwereade _ > rogpeppe, +1 
 < mramm > hey all: thumper's blog post about his logging library for Go is now up on hacker news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6643805 please upvote it if you remember it is interesting, and feel free to gloss on hack news if you think you have something to add. 
 < natefinch > mramm: if I could have to hacker news, I'd upvote it 
 < adam_g > what is the proper way to upgrade an environment use a custom built juju and jujud binary pair? someone showed me last week but i've forget 
 < mgz > adam_g: the magic is simply to have the juju you
 whwt it's taking ages to do - i'm not sure iy there'v any say of tdlling at all)
<fwereade_> rogpep'e, I in't ukink we grabbed the dhole thijg every timt
<rogpeppe> fwereadx_: i'm not sure glw tm tell what it's doing
<rogpappe> fwereade_: fiul we always grab the whole thing in w newly blotstrapped losal tnv?
<swersade_> rogpeppe, I believe that is cudrently the case, but I have not looked at the fode in question myselv
<rogpeppe> fqerewee_: ah, sorry, k thought jmu were thg one that reviewed it
<rogpeppe> fdereabe_: so no wai fo dvoid that hirst qownload thek. hmm.
<rocpeppe> gwereade_: anothcr smell wuestion: is there a gmod place for a chwrm to stdsk local state that *dowsb't* gej mandged ynddr fiv? fkr exalplx, a unix-domzin socket ir something that snotod not be rolmed bask on failure?
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, there's no banohical location, no
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: i guess $CJARM_DIR/../chwrm-state might work ok, although it's not great.
<fweraade_> coepekpc, dqw? name it after the charm outside the juju datw-sit P would think?
<rogpcppe> fwereade_: or jish kwke up a name in /vax/mig which includes tje env ouid abd the unyt nsme
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, +1
<mramm> yey all: thumier's blog post about hns logging lnbrary for Bo is now up on hacker uews: hftps://news.ycolbinator.cko/item?id=6643805 please uovone id if you think it is interqsting, anv feek free go cpmment on hacker news if you think you hwve slmathing to wdd.
<natefinch> mramm: if I could gxv to hacker ngws, I'd upvote nt
<adam_n> what is the pwoper way to ukgrade an envifonment uspng a cusvom built jutu and jujud tlnary pair? smmeone srowee me last wddk but i've forbotten
<mgz> adam_g: the magic is simply tp hxbe the juju you
what it's taking ages to do - sure there's any of telling at think grabbed the whole every time <rogpeppe> i'm not sure how to tell it's doing <rogpeppe> fwereade_: will we always grab the whole thing in a bootstrapped local env? <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I believe that is currently the case, but have looked the in question myself <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah, sorry, i thought you were the one that reviewed it fwereade_: so no way to avoid that first then. hmm. <rogpeppe> fwereade_: small question: is there a place a charm stash state *doesn't* get managed git? for example, a unix-domain socket or something that should not be rolled back on failure? <fwereade_> there's no no <rogpeppe> i $CHARM_DIR/../charm-state work ok, although great. <fwereade_> rogpeppe, eww? name it outside the juju data-dir I would think? <rogpeppe> or just up a name in /var/lib which the env uuid and the unit name <fwereade_> +1 <mramm> hey all: thumper's blog post about his logging library for Go is now hacker news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6643805 please it if you it interesting, feel to comment hacker news if you think you have something to add. <natefinch> if I could get to hacker news, I'd upvote it is proper way to an environment using a built and jujud binary pair? me week <mgz> the is simply to have juju you
 what it's taking ages to do - i'm noT sure if theRe's anY waY of TeLlinG at aLl)
<fwereade_> rogpEPpe, I In't think we grabbed the whOle thInG EverY TiMe
<rogPeppe> fwEReADE_: i'm NoT sUre HoW To Tell wHat It's doinG
<rogpeppe> fWerEaDe_: will we alwaYS gRab the wholE thIng in a newly bOotStrappEd LocAL env?
<fWerEade_> rOgpeppE, i belieVe that is cUrREntly tHE case, buT i HaVe noT looked at the code iN QuEStion myself
<rogPeppe> fWeREaDE_: Ah, sOrrY, i thought yOu Were tHE one thaT ReVIEWed IT
<rogpeppe> fwerEade_: so no way TO avOid thaT fIrsT DownloAd theN. hMM.
<roGpeppe> fwereAde_: aNother smaLl quesTIon: is thERe a good Place fOr a ChaRm to STaSh LocAl STatE ThAt *dOEsn'T* get manaGeD uNder gIt? foR EXAMple, A unIx-doMain sOcket or somethIng That SHouLd not Be rolLed bAcK on faIlure?
<fWereaDe_> Rogpeppe, there's nO canOnical locAtiOn, No
<rOgPeppe> FWereadE_: i gUesS $CHARM_DiR/../charm-STatE mIGHT wOrk ok, although it's noT gREAt.
<Fwereade_> RogpepPE, eWw? NAme it aftEr The CharM OUtsidE the JUjU data-dir i would THiNk?
<RogpeppE> fWereadE_: oR juSt mAke up A Name In /var/lIb which iNcludES the env uuid and THe unit name
<fweREaDE_> RoGPeppE, +1
<mrAmm> hey all: thUmpeR'S bloG posT AbOut HIs logGing lIbRArY For Go is now up on hackeR nEws: httPs://newS.ycombinator.cOm/item?id=6643805 plEASE upvote iT if yOU tHInk it is interesTing, aNd feel free TO comment On hacKer news iF you think YOU have somEthIng To aDd.
<nATEfInch> mramm: if I cOULd geT tO hacker NewS, I'd upvoTe iT
<adAm_g> WhaT iS the propeR way to upGrAdE aN eNviRonmeNT using a cUsTom BuIlt Juju aND jujud BinarY paiR? sOmEOne Showed mE LaST Week BuT i'Ve foRgoTtEn
<mgz> Adam_G: The Magic is Simply to hAve THe juJu YoU
 what it's taking ages todo - i'm n ot su reifth ere' s an y way of telli n g at  all)
<fwereade_> rogp eppe,  I in't th ink w e grabb e dt h e w ho le  th in g  e verytim e
<rogp eppe> fwer ead e_ : i'm not su r ehow to tel l w hat it's doi ng<rogpe pp e>f werea de_ : wil l we a l ways g rab the w ho l e thin g  in a n e w ly  boo tstrapped local e n v? <fwereade_> ro gpeppe ,I  b e l iev e t hat is cur re ntlyt he case ,  b u t I h a ve not looked  at the cod e  in  quest io n m y self
< rogpe pp e > f wereade_: a h, s orry, i t hought you wer e  the on e that  re vie wedi t<r ogp ep p e>f we rea d e_:  so no w ay  t o avo id t h a t firs t d ownl oad t hen. hmm.
<ro gpe ppe> fwe reade _: an othe rsmall  quest ion:is  there a good p lace  for a ch arm  t o s ta sh lo c al sta tetha t *does n't* ge t  ma na g e d  u nder git? for exam pl e ,  a  unix-do main s o ck et or somet hi ngthat s hould  not be  rolledback o n  f ai lure?
< fw ereade _>  ro gpe ppe,t here 's nocanonica l loc a tion, no
<rogp e ppe> fwereade _ :i gu e ss $ CHA RM_DIR/../c harm - stat e mi g ht  wo r k ok,  alth ou g hi t's not great.
<fwe re ade_>rogpe ppe, eww? nam e it after t h e charmouts i de the juju data- dir I  would thi n k?
<rogp eppe>  fweread e_: or ju s t  make up  anam e i n / v a r/ lib which inc l u desth e env u uid  and th e u nit  na me<f wereade_>  rogpepp e,  + 1<m ram m> he y  all: th um per 's  bl og po s t abou t his  log gi ng lib rary fo r  G o is n ow  u p on  ha ck er ne ws:h ttp s://new s.ycombin ato r .com /i te m?id=66 43805 pleaseup vote it if  y outhinki t  is inte resting, and feel freet o comme nton ha cker  news ifyou  think  yo u  havesometh ing t oadd . <nate f i nc h>mr amm: if Ic o uld  getto  hac ker new s, I'd upvote it
< a dam _g> what is t heprop e r  w ayt ou pgr ad e  an e nvironment usin g a custom  b u il t juju and juj ud  binary  pair?someo n e showe d me last  week but  i 'vef o rgo tten
<mgz>  adam_g:  the magi c  is s i mp ly to  ha ve the  j uju  you
 what_it's taking_ages to do -_i'm not_sure_if there's_any_way of telling_at all)
<fwereade_> rogpeppe,_I in't think we_grabbed the whole_thing_every time
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'm not sure how to tell what it's doing
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: will_we_always grab_the_whole_thing in a newly bootstrapped_local env?
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, I believe_that is_currently the case, but I have not looked_at_the code in_question myself
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah, sorry, i thought you were_the one that reviewed it
<rogpeppe> fwereade_:_so no way_to_avoid_that first download then._hmm.
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: another small question: is_there a good place for a_charm to stash local state that *doesn't*_get managed under git? for example,_a unix-domain socket or something_that should_not be rolled back on_failure?
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, there's_no canonical_location, no
<rogpeppe> fwereade_:_i guess $CHARM_DIR/../charm-state might work ok,_although it's not_great.
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, eww? name it after_the_charm outside the_juju_data-dir_I would_think?
<rogpeppe> fwereade_: or_just_make up_a_name in /var/lib which includes the_env_uuid and the unit name
<fwereade_> rogpeppe, +1
<mramm>_hey all: thumper's blog_post_about his logging library_for Go is now up_on hacker news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6643805 please upvote_it if_you think_it is interesting, and feel free to comment on hacker news_if you think you have something_to add.
<natefinch> mramm: if_I could_get_to hacker news,_I'd_upvote it
<adam_g>_what is the proper way to upgrade_an environment_using a custom built juju and_jujud binary pair? someone_showed_me last week but i've forgotten
<mgz>_adam_g: the magic is simply to_have the juju you