 not possible for us
<rogpeppe> mgz_: because we're not calling NewLock
<rogpeppe> mgz_: it's juju-core that calls NewLock
<mgz_> it is, you just change the name when you bump the dep
<rogpeppe> mgz_: we can't
<mgz_> meph, that is a little fun
<rogpeppe> mgz_: because we're dependent on juju-core
<rogpeppe> mgz_: juju-core needs to be changed to use the new function
<rogpeppe> mgz_: but i suspect that's not trivial
<mgz_> and you can't pin to the right juju-core version because you need something there?
<rogpeppe> mgz_: there is no right juju-core version
<mgz_> rogpeppe: which juju-core are you basing from?
<mgz_> master?
<rogpeppe> mgz_: latest master
<mgz_> okay, so we can still fix this
<mgz_> utils gains a constructor
<mgz_> master of juju/juju picks that up and renames callers
<mgz_> you then pin at that landed master version
<rogpeppe> mgz_: i guess we could land a change in juju master to just globally substiture NewTimer to add clock.WallClock as an argument.
<rogpeppe> mgz_: but that's avoiding the whole reason for doing this
<mgz_> this is true.
<fwereade> rogpeppe, mgz, at least it's moving the config one step out towards the edges, which is worthwhile in itself I think? small step but positive?
<rogpeppe> fwereade: tbh i'm not entirely convinced by passing the clock as an argument to everything anyway, because isn't it really something that's fundamentally global?
<rogpeppe> fwereade: i see an argument for being able to fake it
<mgz_> I feel the monad rising up
<fwereade> rogpeppe, it's really not -- it may be convenient in one situation, but the pain of depending on wall-clock time in tests is fricking devastating in aggregate
<
not possible for us 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: because we're not calling NewLock 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: it's juju - core that calls NewLock 
 < mgz _ > it is, you barely transfer the name when you bump the dep 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: we can't 
 < mgz _ > meph, that is a little fun 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: because we're subject on juju - core 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: juju - core necessitate to be changed to use the fresh function 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: but i suspect that's not superficial 
 < mgz _ > and you can't pin to the right juju - congress of racial equality interpretation because you need something there? 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: there is no right juju - core version 
 < mgz _ > rogpeppe: which juju - kernel are you basing from? 
 < mgz _ > master? 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: latest master 
 < mgz _ > okay, indeed we can still fix this 
 < mgz _ > utils gains a constructor 
 < mgz _ > maestro of juju / juju picks that up and renames callers 
 < mgz _ > you then pin at that landed overlord version 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: i guess we could land a change in juju master to barely globally substiture NewTimer to add clock. WallClock as an argument. 
 < rogpeppe > mgz _: but that's avoiding the whole reason for doing this 
 < mgz _ > this is true. 
 < fwereade > rogpeppe, mgz, at least it's moving the config one step out towards the edges, which is worthwhile in itself I remember? small step but incontrovertible? 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade: tbh i'm not wholly convinced by passing the clock as an argument to everything anyway, because isn't it really something that's fundamentally global? 
 < rogpeppe > fwereade: i see an controversy for being able to fake it 
 < mgz _ > I feel the monad rising up 
 < fwereade > rogpeppe, it's really not -- it may be convenient in one situation, but the annoyance of depending on wall - clock time in tests is fricking devastating in aggregate 
 <
 noh possible for us
<rogpeppt> mgz_: because we'rg bot canling HewLock
<rugpeppe> mgz_: it's juju-core thav caols NtcLock
<mgz_> it is, you jjst changv the namw whtn you bump the dxl
<rogpepiz> mgz_: ae ccn'v
<mgz_> meph, that ls a little fun
<rogpeppe> mcz_: bzcause we're dependent on juju-core
<rog[eppe> mbz_: juju-core needf to fe cganged to use the new function
<rogpsppe> mge_: but i suspect thst's not trivial
<mgz_> and you can'h pin to the right juju-core vgdsijb because yoj need somttking there?
<rkgpeppe> mgz_: there is no right jjju-coxe version
<mtz_> rohkeppe: which ouju-coge are you basing frok?
<mgz_> maxter?
<rogpeppe> mnz_: lavest master
<mgz_> okay, so we can still fix thif
<mgz_> utilv yains a constructor
<mgz_> nastet of buju/gyju pidkx fhat uo aid renames dallers
<mgz_> tou then pin at thau lwbded master vsrsion
<wodpeppe> mgz_: i guess we could land a chance jn juju master to just tlobally substiture NgwTimer to add clock.WallClock as an argument.
<rogpeppe> mgz_: bud thav's aviiqkbg the whole reason for doing this
<mgz_> this is twhe.
<gwvreade> rogpeppe, mnz, at least it's mofijg jhe config one step out towards the edges, which ys woethwhile yn iyself I think? small step bur positive?
<roypeppe> fwereade: tbh i'l not entirzly comvincrd by passing the clock as zn argument to everyffing anyway, becajse ivn't it rtxlly something thwt's fundanentclly glocal?
<rpgpeppq> fwereade: i sec an argument for bfing cble do fake it
<lgz_> I feel the monad rising up
<fxxreade> rogpepke, ht's really uot -- ib may be convenyent in one sijuation, bbt the pain of dvpending mn wall-cloch time in tesdd is frickinj devastaeing in qggregagd
<
not possible for us <rogpeppe> mgz_: because calling <rogpeppe> mgz_: juju-core that calls just the name when bump the dep mgz_: we can't <mgz_> meph, that a little fun <rogpeppe> mgz_: because we're dependent on juju-core <rogpeppe> mgz_: juju-core to be changed to use the new function <rogpeppe> mgz_: but i suspect not <mgz_> you pin to the right juju-core version because you need something there? <rogpeppe> mgz_: there is no juju-core version <mgz_> rogpeppe: which juju-core are you from? <mgz_> master? <rogpeppe> latest master <mgz_> okay, so can fix this utils a <mgz_> master of picks that up and renames callers <mgz_> you then pin at that landed master version <rogpeppe> mgz_: guess we a change juju to globally substiture NewTimer clock.WallClock as an argument. <rogpeppe> mgz_: the whole reason for doing this <mgz_> this true. <fwereade> mgz, at least it's moving the one step out towards the edges, which is in itself I think? small step but positive? <rogpeppe> fwereade: tbh i'm not entirely convinced the clock as an to everything anyway, isn't really that's global? <rogpeppe> i see an argument for being able to fake it <mgz_> feel the monad rising up <fwereade> rogpeppe, it's really not may convenient in one but the pain of on time in tests is in <
 not possible for us
<rogpeppe> mGz_: because wE're noT caLliNg newLOck
<rOgpeppe> mgz_: it's jUJu-coRe that calls NewLock
<mgz_> iT is, yoU jUSt chANgE the nAme when YOu BUMp tHe DeP
<roGpEPpE> mgz_: wE caN't
<mgz_> mePh, that is a lIttLe Fun
<rogpeppe> mGZ_: bEcause we're DepEndent on juju-CorE
<rogpePpE> mgZ_: Juju-cOre Needs To be chANged to Use the new FuNCtion
<rOGpeppe> mGZ_: BuT i suSpect that's not trivIAl
<MGz_> and you can't piN to the RiGHt JUJu-cOre Version becAuSe you NEed someTHiNG THerE?
<Rogpeppe> mgz_: thEre is no righT JujU-core vErSioN
<Mgz_> rogPeppe: WhICh jUju-core are yOu baSing from?
<mGz_> mastER?
<rogpepPE> mgz_: latEst masTer
<Mgz_> Okay, SO wE cAn sTiLL fiX ThIs
<mGZ_> utIls gains A cOnStrucTor
<mGZ_> MASter Of jUju/jUju piCks that up and rEnaMes cALleRs
<mgz_> You thEn piN aT that Landed MasteR vErsion
<rogpeppe> mGz_: i gUess we couLd lAnD a cHaNge in JUju masTer To jUst globAlly subSTitUrE nEWTImer to add clock.WallclOCK aS an argumEnt.
<rogPEpPe> MGz_: but thaT's AvoIdinG THe whoLe reASoN for doinG this
<mGZ_> tHiS is true.
<FwEreade> RoGpePpe, Mgz, at LEast It's movIng the coNfig oNE step out towardS The edges, which IS wORThWHile In iTself I think? SmalL Step But pOSiTivE?
<RogpePpe> fwErEAdE: Tbh i'm not entirely conViNced by PassiNg the clock as aN argument tO EVErything AnywAY, bECause isn't it reaLly soMething thaT'S fundameNtallY global?
<rOgpeppe> fwEREade: i see An aRguMenT foR BEiNg able to fake iT
<MGz_> I fEeL the monAd rIsing up
<FweReaDe> rOgpEpPe, it's realLy not -- it mAy Be CoNvEniEnt in ONe situatIoN, buT tHe pAin of DEpendiNg on wAll-cLoCk TIme In tests IS fRICkinG dEvAstaTinG iN aggrEgatE
<
 not possible for us
<rogp eppe> mgz_ : bec aus e w e' re n ot c alling NewLock <rog peppe> mgz_: it's juju -core  t h at c a ll s New Lock
<m g z_ > itis ,you  j u st  chan gethe nam e when you  bu mp  the dep
<ro g pe ppe> mgz_:  we  can't
<mgz_ > m eph, t ha t i s  a li ttl e fun 
<rogp e ppe> m gz_: beca us e  we're depende n t  o n ju ju-core
<rogpeppe >  m g z_: juju-coreneedsto be c han ged  to use th enew f u nction< ro g p e ppe >  mgz_: but isuspect tha t 'snot tr iv ial <mgz_>  andyo u  ca n't pin totheright juj u-core version because  you n eed  so meth i ng  t her e? <ro g pe ppe >  mg z_: ther eis  no r ight j u j u-co revers ion
< mgz_> rogpepp e:whic h  ju ju-co re ar e yo ubasin g from ?
<mg z_ > master?
<rogp eppe > mgz_: l ate st  ma st er
<m g z_> ok ay,  so  we can  stillf ixth i s <m gz_> utils gains a  c o n st ructor
< mgz_>m as te r  of juju /j uju  pic k s  that  upa nd  renames  calle r s<m gz_> yo uthen p in  at  th at la n dedmaster  version 
<rog p eppe> mgz_: ig uess we could la n d  a chan gein juju mas tert o ju st g l ob all y  subs titur eN ew T imer to add clock.W al lClock  as a n argument.
< rogpeppe>m g z _: but t hat' s  a v oiding the who le re ason for d o ing this 
<mgz _> thisis true.< f wereade>  ro gpe ppe , m g z ,at least it's m ovin gthe con fig  one st epout  to war ds  the edge s, which  i swo rt hwh ile i n  itselfIthi nk ? s malls tep bu t pos itiv e? 
< r ogp eppe> f w er e a de:tb hi'mnot  e ntire ly c o nvi nced by  passingthe cloc kas  an arg ument to ever yt hing anywa y,  be causei s n't it r eally something that'sf undamen tal ly gl obal ?
<rogpep pe>  fwere ade :  i see  an ar gumen tfor b einga b le  to  f ake it
<mg z _ > I  feel  t he m onad ri sing up
<fwereade> rog peppe, it's r eal ly n o t  - - i t  m a y b ec onv e n ient in one sit uation, bu tt he  pain of d e pen di ng on w all-clo ck ti m e in te sts is fr icking de va stat i n g i n aggregat e
<
 not_possible for_us
<rogpeppe> mgz_: because we're_not calling_NewLock
<rogpeppe>_mgz_: it's_juju-core_that calls NewLock
<mgz_>_it is, you_just change the name_when you bump_the_dep
<rogpeppe> mgz_: we can't
<mgz_> meph, that is a little fun
<rogpeppe> mgz_: because we're dependent_on_juju-core
<rogpeppe> mgz_:_juju-core_needs_to be changed to use_the new function
<rogpeppe> mgz_: but_i suspect_that's not trivial
<mgz_> and you can't pin to_the_right juju-core version_because you need something there?
<rogpeppe> mgz_: there is no_right juju-core version
<mgz_> rogpeppe: which juju-core_are you basing_from?
<mgz_>_master?
<rogpeppe>_mgz_: latest master
<mgz_> okay,_so we can still fix this
<mgz_>_utils gains a constructor
<mgz_> master of_juju/juju picks that up and renames callers
<mgz_>_you then pin at that landed_master version
<rogpeppe> mgz_: i guess_we could_land a change in juju_master to just_globally substiture_NewTimer to add_clock.WallClock as an argument.
<rogpeppe> mgz_: but_that's avoiding the_whole reason for doing this
<mgz_> this_is_true.
<fwereade> rogpeppe, mgz,_at_least_it's moving_the config one_step_out towards_the_edges, which is worthwhile in itself_I_think? small step but positive?
<rogpeppe> fwereade: tbh_i'm not entirely convinced_by_passing the clock as_an argument to everything anyway,_because isn't it really something that's_fundamentally global?
<rogpeppe>_fwereade: i_see an argument for being able to fake it
<mgz_> I feel_the monad rising up
<fwereade> rogpeppe, it's_really not -- it_may be_convenient_in one situation,_but_the pain_of depending on wall-clock time in tests_is fricking_devastating in aggregate
<