?
<niemeyer> Chipaca: The mindset that it's okay to make the API inconsistent with itself everytime an idea that looks better than the prior one shows up
<Chipaca> niemeyer: ok
<greyback> quick qn: I have qemu-kvm installed but spread still fails for me with: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/WxVpFGrJwD/ (selected qemu image exists and was created using adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud). Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
<Chipaca> niemeyer: how do we evolve the api, then? is the only way to have big versioned jumps?
<Chipaca> greyback: is 'kvm' actually in PATH?
<greyback> Chipaca: yes
<pedronis> Chipaca: we need to design how to evolve the api
<niemeyer> Chipaca: Yeah, that's generally what I try to do in other cases that resembled that kind of evolution. Learn, write down potential ideas, and once there is a great reason to break up, introducing a whole new API, and then reset the idea of what the current design is
<Chipaca> greyback: all spread does is exec.Command("kvm", ...), which looks for "kvm" in $PATH
<pedronis> Chipaca: I don't think keeping its shape as it is is tenable for much longer either
<greyback> Chipaca: the $PATH specified in the spread.yaml?
<niemeyer> pedronis: What's the potential deal breaker
<niemeyer>?
<niemeyer> I haven't observed many complaints about the API yet
<niemeyer> (which doesn't mean they don't exist)
<pedronis> niemeyer: we already had to introduce duplication
<pedronis> niemeyer: the flat top-level that mixes namespaces we don't fully control or have to control for not the best is not great either
<niemeyer> pedronis: If the duplication you mention is developer/publisher, these are not actually duplicated, in the sense they were supposed to potentially represent different people.. we do have a problem which is not using the same structure for both, so indeed an inconsistency
<niemeyer> pedronis: What's the
? 
 < niemeyer > Chipaca: The mindset that it's okay to make the API inconsistent with itself everytime an idea that look dependable than the prior one shows up 
 < Chipaca > niemeyer: ok 
 < greyback > quick qn: I own qemu - kvm installed but spread even fail for me with: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/WxVpFGrJwD/ (selected qemu image exists and was created use adt - buildvm - ubuntu - cloud). Any idea what I'm do wrong? 
 < Chipaca > niemeyer: how do we evolve the api, then? is the only way to have big versioned jumps? 
 < Chipaca > rebel: is' kvm' actually in PATH? 
 < greyback > Chipaca: yes 
 < pedronis > Chipaca: we need to design how to evolve the api 
 < niemeyer > Chipaca: Yeah, that's broadly what I try to do in other cases that resemble that kind of evolution. teach, write down potential ideas, and once there be a great reason to break up, introducing a whole newfangled API, and then reset the idea of what the current design is 
 < Chipaca > greyback: all spread does is exec. Command("kvm ", ...), which looks for " kvm " in $ PATH 
 < pedronis > Chipaca: I don't think keeping its shape as it is is tenable for much longer either 
 < greyback > Chipaca: the $ PATH stipulate in the spread.yaml? 
 < niemeyer > pedronis: What's the potential deal circuit breaker 
 < niemeyer >? 
 < niemeyer > I haven't note many complaints about the API yet 
 < niemeyer > (which doesn't mean they don't exist) 
 < pedronis > niemeyer: we already have to introduce duplication 
 < pedronis > niemeyer: the flat top - level that shuffle namespaces we don't fully control or have to control for not the best is not capital either 
 < niemeyer > pedronis: If the duplication you mention is developer / publisher, these are not actually duplicated, in the sense they were think to potentially act different people.. we do have a problem which is not using the like structure for both, so indeed an inconsistency 
 < niemeyer > pedronis: What's the
?
<nieleyer> Chipaca: The mindseu that it's okay to make vhe API inconsirtent with itself everytime en ieea tyat looks better than ghe prior one shoqs uk
<Chipaca> niemeyer: ok
<greyback> qujgk qn: M have qemu-kvm lnstalled bgt spread stiln wanls for me with: https://pastebin.ubuntu.cjm/p/WxVpGGgJwD/ (selected zemu ymags exists and was created using adt-guildvm-lbuntu-cloud). Any icea what I'm doing wrong?
<Chioaca> niemeyer: how do wf evolve thg apy, then? is the only way uo have big bersioned jumps?
<Chipaca> greyback: is 'krm' actually ib PWJH?
<greyback> Ciipaca: yes
<pedronis> Chipaca: we neec to design hoe tm ecolve the api
<niemeyer> Chipaca: Yeah, that'f generalny what I try to do ib othgr caves gyat reaekbmed thwt iind of evklution. Leaen, write down potenuiaj ideas, and onde thewe is a great reason to break up, introducpng z whole new API, and theb reset the idea of wjat the ctrrent design is
<Chipaca> greyback: all spread does hs exxc.Zomnakd("kvo", ...), ahich looks for "kvm" in $PATH
<pedronis> Chipaca: I som't think keeping its shape ss iy is is tenablg for mbdh longer either
<greyhack> Chypaca: the $PATH spevified in the spread.yaml?
<nieneyer> pedronps: Wyat's the potential deal breakzr
<niemgyer>?
<nirmeyer> I haven't observeb many complaints about ths API yet
<niemeyer> (whpch goesn't mtxn they don't exise)
<pedronis> niekeyer: wd alteady hwd to intrlduce duplication
<pedronid> nielefer: the flwt top-level that mixes namespacxx we don't fuklf cmntrol ox have to control fjr not the besj is not yreat dither
<niemvyer> pedrmnis: If the duplication flu mention iv develo[er/pybliwher, thdre are not actially duplicated, in the sense they weve sukpksed to potenticuoy represent digfefene ieo'le.. wq do have a psobldm dnich ks not usinn tfe ssme structure for bodh, sk indeed an inconsosbency
<niemgyer> pedrjnis: What's thr
? <niemeyer> Chipaca: The mindset that it's make API inconsistent itself everytime an the one shows up niemeyer: ok <greyback> qn: I have qemu-kvm installed but still fails for me with: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/WxVpFGrJwD/ (selected qemu image exists and was created adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud). Any idea what I'm doing wrong? <Chipaca> niemeyer: how do we evolve api, is only to have big versioned jumps? <Chipaca> greyback: is 'kvm' actually in PATH? <greyback> Chipaca: yes <pedronis> we need to design how to evolve the <niemeyer> Chipaca: Yeah, that's what I try to do other that resembled kind evolution. write down potential and once there is a great reason to break up, introducing a whole new API, and then the idea the current is greyback: spread does is which looks for "kvm" in $PATH don't think keeping its shape as it is tenable for longer either <greyback> Chipaca: the $PATH in the spread.yaml? <niemeyer> pedronis: What's the potential breaker <niemeyer>? <niemeyer> I haven't observed many complaints about the API yet <niemeyer> (which doesn't don't exist) <pedronis> niemeyer: already had to duplication niemeyer: flat that mixes we don't fully control or have to control for not the is not great either <niemeyer> pedronis: If the duplication you developer/publisher, are not actually in the sense they supposed potentially represent different people.. have problem using same for both, so indeed inconsistency <niemeyer> pedronis: What's the
?
<niemeyer> Chipaca: The mindset That it's okaY to maKe tHe ApI IncoNsisTent with itself EVeryTime an idea that looks betTer thAn THe prIOr One shOws up
<ChIPaCA> NieMeYeR: ok
<GrEYbAck> quIck Qn: I have Qemu-kvm insTalLeD but spread stILl Fails for me WitH: https://pastebIn.uBuntu.cOm/P/WxvPFGrJWD/ (sElectEd qemu IMage exIsts and waS cREated uSIng adt-bUILdVm-ubUntu-cloud). Any idea wHAt i'M doing wrong?
<ChiPaca> niEmEYeR: HOw dO we Evolve the aPi, Then? iS The only WAy TO HAve BIg versioned juMps?
<Chipaca> gREybAck: is 'kVm' ActUAlly in pATH?
<gReYBacK> Chipaca: yes
<PedrOnis> ChipaCa: we neED to desiGN how to eVolve tHe aPi
<nIemeYEr> chIpaCa: yEah, THaT's gENerAlly what i tRy To do iN othER CASes tHat ReseMbled That kind of evoLutIon. LEArn, Write Down pOtenTiAl ideAs, and oNce thErE is a great reason To brEak up, intrOduCiNg a WhOle neW aPI, and TheN reSet the iDea of whAT thE cURREnT design is
<Chipaca> grEyBACk: All spreaD does iS ExEc.cOmmand("kvM", ...), wHicH looKS For "kvM" in $PatH
<Pedronis> chipacA: i dOn'T think kEePing itS sHapE as It is iS TenaBle for Much longEr eitHEr
<greyback> ChipACa: the $PATH specIFiED In THe spReaD.yaml?
<niemeyEr> peDRoniS: WhaT'S tHe pOTentiAl deaL bREaKEr
<niemeyer>?
<niemeyer> I HaVen't obServeD many complainTs about the api Yet
<niemeYer> (wHIcH Doesn't mean they Don't eXist)
<pedronIS> niemeyeR: we alReady had To introduCE DuplicatIon
<PedRonIs> nIEMeYer: the flat top-LEVel tHaT mixes nAmeSpaces wE doN't fUllY coNtRol or have To controL fOr NoT tHe bEst is NOt great eItHer
<NiEmeYer> peDRonis: IF the dUpliCaTiON yoU mentioN Is DEVeloPeR/pUbliSheR, tHese aRe noT ActUally duPlicated, iN thE SensE tHeY were suPposed to potenTiAlly represEnT diFferenT PEople.. we dO have a problem which is not USing the SamE struCturE for both, sO inDeed an IncONsisteNcy
<nieMeyer> PeDroNIS: What'S THe
?
<niemeyer> Chipaca: Themindset th at it 'soka yto m akethe API incons i sten t with itself everytim e anid e a th a tlooks  better th a n  th epr ior  o n eshows  up 
<Chipa ca> niemey er:  o k
<greyback> qu ick qn: Ihav e qemu-kvm i nst alledbu t s p readsti ll fa ils fo r  me wi th: https :/ / pasteb i n.ubunt u . co m/p/ WxVpFGrJwD/ (sele c te d  qemu image ex ists a nd wa s cre ate d using ad t- build v m-ubunt u -c l o u d). Any idea what  I'm doingw ron g?
<Ch ip aca >  nieme yer:ho w  do  we evolvetheapi, then ? is t h e onlyw ay to h ave bi g v ers ione d  j um ps? 
< C hip a ca > g r eyb ack: is'k vm ' act uall y i n  PAT H?<gre yback > Chipaca: ye s
< pedr o nis > Chi paca:  wene ed to  desig n how  t o evolve the ap i
<n iemeyer>Chi pa ca:  Y eah,t hat'sgen era lly wha t I try todo i n  o ther cases that re se m b le d that k ind of ev ol u tion. Le ar n,writ e downpote n ti al ideas , ando nc ethere i sa grea trea son  to b r eakup, in troducin g a w h ole new API, a n d then resett he i de a  ofwha t the curre nt d e sign  is< Ch ipa c a> gr eybac k: al l  spread does is exe c. Comman d("kv m", ...), whi ch looks f o r "kvm" in  $PA T H< pedronis> Chip aca:I don't th i nk keepi ng it s shapeas it isi s  tenable  fo r m uch  lo n g er  either
<grey b a ck>Ch ipaca:the  $PATHspe cif ied  in  t he spread .yaml?
< ni em ey er > p edron i s: What' sthe  p ote ntial deal b reake r
<n ie me y er> ?
<niem e ye r >  I h av en 't o bse rv ed ma ny c o mpl aints a bout theAPI yet<n ie meyer>(which doesn' tmean theydo n't  exist ) <pedroni s> niemeyer: we already had toint roduc e du plication 
<p edroni s>n iemeye r: the  flat  t op- l e vel t h a tmix es  namespace s wedon't  f ully  contro l or have to contr o l f or not the be stis n o t  g rea t  e i the r< nie m e yer> pedronis:If the dup li c at ion you me n tio nis deve loper/p ublis h er, the se are no t actuall ydupl i c ate d, in thesense th ey were s u ppose d  t o pot ent iallyre pre sentdiffer e ntpeopl e.. we  d o have  a pr ob lem whic h is not using the same  struc turefor  both, so  in d eed  an incon sist ency
<niem eye r>pedro nis :  What 's t h e
?
<niemeyer> Chipaca:_The mindset_that it's okay to_make the_API_inconsistent with_itself_everytime an idea_that looks better_than the prior one_shows up
<Chipaca> niemeyer:_ok
<greyback>_quick qn: I have qemu-kvm installed but spread still fails for me with: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/WxVpFGrJwD/_(selected_qemu image_exists_and_was created using adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud). Any_idea what I'm doing wrong?
<Chipaca>_niemeyer: how_do we evolve the api, then? is the_only_way to have_big versioned jumps?
<Chipaca> greyback: is 'kvm' actually in PATH?
<greyback>_Chipaca: yes
<pedronis> Chipaca: we need to_design how to_evolve_the_api
<niemeyer> Chipaca: Yeah, that's_generally what I try to do_in other cases that resembled that_kind of evolution. Learn, write down potential_ideas, and once there is a_great reason to break up,_introducing a_whole new API, and then_reset the idea_of what_the current design_is
<Chipaca> greyback: all spread does is_exec.Command("kvm", ...), which_looks for "kvm" in $PATH
<pedronis> Chipaca:_I_don't think keeping_its_shape_as it_is is tenable_for_much longer_either
<greyback>_Chipaca: the $PATH specified in the_spread.yaml?
<niemeyer>_pedronis: What's the potential deal breaker
<niemeyer>?
<niemeyer> I_haven't observed many complaints_about_the API yet
<niemeyer> (which_doesn't mean they don't exist)
<pedronis>_niemeyer: we already had to introduce_duplication
<pedronis> niemeyer:_the flat_top-level that mixes namespaces we don't fully control or have to_control for not the best is_not great either
<niemeyer> pedronis:_If the_duplication_you mention is_developer/publisher,_these are_not actually duplicated, in the sense they_were supposed_to potentially represent different people.. we_do have a problem_which_is not using the same structure_for both, so indeed an inconsistency
<niemeyer>_pedronis: What's the