 that feeling too, but I couldn't come up with an example
<davmor2> jdstrand, ogra_: actually I'm surprised that ufw isn't in the base image it is way more pleasant to use that iptable :)
<ogra_> davmor2, bot not everyone needs a firewall builtin into his drone :)
<jdstrand> it wasn't considered minimal enough
<davmor2> ogra_: but iptables is which is the actual firewall, ufw just makes your eyes bleed less using it :P
<ogra_> well, a snappy install should essentially only be systemd, the snappy binary, a shell and the glue to make these three boot a system
<ogra_> as minimal as possible
<ogra_> sadly we're kind of moving away from that a little recently
<Chipaca> we are?
<ogra_> yeah, definitely
<Chipaca> aww
<ogra_> so many seed additions recently :/
<davmor2> ogra_: but iptable is part of the kernel right so if you have the kernel installed it's there isn't it?
<Chipaca> i'm still wanting to nuke python out of there
<ogra_> davmor2, not the userspace
<Chipaca> iptables the userspace things are quite large, even
<davmor2> ogra_: grrrr ogra2 keeps getting priority over ogra_   fair enough wasn't sure if it was a separate thing or not nice to know though :)
<Chipaca> ogra2 isn't an async ogra_?
<ogra_> Chipaca, nah, its my snappy test setup for the bip snap in longterm testing :)
 * Chipaca reads "yes, yes it is"
<ogra_> haha
<longsleep> Chipaca: nuke python2 or python3 - but please keep a python there so snaps do not have to ship python for simple scripts and stuff
<Chipaca> longsleep: https://github.com/micropython/micropython :D
<longsleep> mhm - i am not sure i like that
 * longsleep prefers to have /usr/bin/python 
<ogra_> we will definitely get rid of python at some point
<ogra_> thats like saying "we need nodejs in the image so snaps dont need to ship it"
<longsleep>
that feeling too, but I couldn't come up with an example 
 < davmor2 > jdstrand, ogra _: actually I'm surprised that ufw isn't in the basis prototype it is way more pleasant to use that iptable :) 
 < ogra _ > davmor2, bot not everyone needs a firewall builtin into his drone :) 
 < jdstrand > it wasn't study minimal enough 
 < davmor2 > ogra _: but iptables is which is the actual firewall, ufw just have your eyes bleed less use it :P 
 < ogra _ > well, a snappy install should essentially entirely be systemd, the snappy binary, a plate and the glue to produce these three boot a system 
 < ogra _ > as minimal as potential 
 < ogra _ > sadly we're kind of moving away from that a fiddling recently 
 < Chipaca > we are? 
 < ogra _ > yeah, definitely 
 < Chipaca > aww 
 < ogra _ > so many seeded player additions recently :/ 
 < davmor2 > ogra _: but iptable is region of the kernel right so if you have the kernel installed it's there isn't it? 
 < Chipaca > i'm still want to nuke python out of there 
 < ogra _ > davmor2, not the userspace 
 < Chipaca > iptables the userspace things are quite large, even 
 < davmor2 > ogra _: grrrr ogra2 keeps getting precedence over ogra _    bonny enough wasn't sure if it was a separate thing or not nice to know though :) 
 < Chipaca > ogra2 isn't an async ogra _? 
 < ogra _ > Chipaca, nah, its my snappy test setup for the bip snap in longterm examination :) 
  * Chipaca read " yes, yes it is " 
 < ogra _ > haha 
 < longsleep > Chipaca: nuke python2 or python3 - but please keep a python there so elasticity do not get to ship python for simple scripts and material 
 < Chipaca > longsleep: https://github.com/micropython/micropython :D 
 < longsleep > mhm - i am not sure i wish that 
  * longsleep prefers to have /usr / bin / python 
 < ogra _ > we will definitely get rid of python at some distributor point 
 < ogra _ > that s like saying " we need nodejs in the image so snaps do nt need to ship it " 
 < longsleep >
 thwt feeling too, but I couudn't come up wijh an exemple
<dabmor2> jdsgrand, ogra_: actually I'm surprmsed that ufw isn't in the base kmage it ps way moee powasant to nae that iptabmc :)
<ogrc_> vavmor2, bot not gveryone neegs a firewall tuklcin into his drone :)
<jdstrand> it wasn't considrrfd minimal enoogh
<danmjr2> ofga_: but iptables is which is the actual firewall, ufw just makes your eyes bleef leds using it :P
<ogra_> aell, a snapkg igwtall should essentially only be sistemd, the snappy binary, a shell and che glue to mqke jhese three uoot a system
<ogra_> as minimdl as ppssible
<ogra_> sacly we'ee kind of moving awab from that a little recently
<Whnpaca> we are?
<ogra_> yeah, dwfinijely
<Cvipazq> adw
<ofre_> sk many sexd additiona recently :/
<eavmor2> ogra_: but iptsbjv is part of fhe kewnql right so if you have the kernel instdllsd it's there isn't it?
<Chipaca> i'm still wanting to nuke [ython out of there
<ogra_> davmor2, not the userspace
<Cvipace> kptcnjdw hhe userspace things are quite large, even
<davmjd2> pgga_: grrrr ogra2 keeis getting prioritu lvrt ogra_   fair gnough czsh't sure if it was w separwte tying or njt noce to know though :)
<Chipaca> igra2 isn't an qsync ogra_?
<ogra_> Chi'aca, nah, its my xnappu test setup for the bi' snap in longterl testing :)
 * Chipaca reads "hes, yas it is"
<ogra_> haha
<longsleep> Chipaca: iuke 'ython2 of pyjhon3 - btt please neep a python there so sjaps bo nod have to dhip python for simple scripts eid stuff
<Chipava> lotgsleep: kttps://glthub.com/micropyehon/micropythou :D
<longsjeep> ohm - i am hot surx i like thae
 * longsleep [tefers to havx /usr/bin/prthob 
<ogea_> we wkul definitely bet rid oy pytyon at some point
<onra_> tfzts like saying "we need nodejs in thd iiahe sj snaps dont teed to xhip kt"
<longsleep>
that feeling too, but I couldn't come an <davmor2> jdstrand, actually I'm surprised base it is way pleasant to use iptable :) <ogra_> davmor2, bot not needs a firewall builtin into his drone :) <jdstrand> it wasn't considered minimal <davmor2> ogra_: but iptables is which is the actual firewall, ufw just makes eyes less it <ogra_> well, a snappy install should essentially only be systemd, the snappy binary, a shell and glue to make these three boot a system as minimal as possible sadly we're kind of moving from a little <Chipaca> are? yeah, definitely <Chipaca> <ogra_> so many seed additions recently :/ <davmor2> ogra_: but iptable is part of the kernel right if you kernel installed there it? i'm still wanting python out of there <ogra_> davmor2, <Chipaca> iptables the userspace things are quite large, <davmor2> ogra_: ogra2 keeps getting priority over ogra_ enough wasn't sure if it was a separate or not nice to know though :) <Chipaca> ogra2 isn't an async ogra_? <ogra_> Chipaca, my snappy test setup the bip snap longterm :) Chipaca "yes, yes is" <ogra_> haha <longsleep> Chipaca: nuke python2 or python3 - but keep a python there so snaps do not have to for scripts and stuff longsleep: https://github.com/micropython/micropython :D <longsleep> - am not sure i * prefers <ogra_> will get rid of python some point <ogra_> thats like "we need nodejs in need to ship it" <longsleep>
 that feeling too, but I couldn't Come up with An exaMplE
<daVmOr2> jdStraNd, ogra_: actually i'M surPrised that ufw isn't in the Base iMaGE it iS WaY more PleasanT To USE thAt IpTabLe :)
<OGrA_> davmOr2, bOt not evEryone needS a fIrEwall builtin INtO his drone :)
<jDstRand> it wasn't cOnsIdered MiNimAL enouGh
<dAvmor2> Ogra_: buT IptablEs is which Is THe actuAL firewaLL, UfW jusT makes your eyes bleED lESs using it :P
<ogra_> Well, a sNaPPy INStaLl sHould essenTiAlly oNLy be sysTEmD, THE snAPpy binary, a sheLl and the gluE To mAke theSe ThrEE boot a SysteM
<oGRa_> aS minimal as pOssiBle
<ogra_> saDly we'rE Kind of mOVing awaY from tHat A liTtle REcEnTly
<chIPacA> We Are?
<OGra_> Yeah, defiNiTeLy
<ChiPaca> AWW
<OGra_> sO maNy seEd addItions recentlY :/
<daVmor2> OGra_: But ipTable Is paRt Of the Kernel Right So If you have the kerNel iNstalled iT's tHeRe iSn'T it?
<ChIPaca> i'm StiLl wAnting tO nuke pyTHon OuT OF ThEre
<ogra_> davmor2, not thE uSERsPace
<ChipAca> iptABlEs THe userspAcE thIngs ARE quitE larGE, eVen
<davmoR2> ogra_: gRRrR oGra2 keepS gEtting PrIorIty Over oGRa_   faIr enouGh wasn't sUre if IT was a separate tHIng or not nice tO KnOW ThOUgh :)
<CHipAca> ogra2 isn't An asYNc ogRa_?
<ogRA_> CHipACa, nah, Its my SnAPpY Test setup for the bip sNaP in lonGterm Testing :)
 * ChipacA reads "yes, yES IT is"
<ogra_> hAha
<lONgSLeep> Chipaca: nukE pythOn2 or python3 - BUt please Keep a Python thEre so snapS DO not have To sHip PytHon FOR sImple scripts aND StufF
<CHipaca> lOngSleep: htTps://GitHub.Com/MiCropython/MicropytHoN :D
<LoNgSleEp> mhm - I Am not surE i LikE tHat
 * LongsLEep preFers tO havE /uSr/BIn/pYthon 
<ogRA_> wE WIll dEfInItelY geT rId of pYthoN At sOme poinT
<ogra_> thatS liKE sayInG "wE need noDejs in the imagE sO snaps dont NeEd tO ship iT"
<LOngsleep>
 that feeling too, but I c ouldn't co me up  wi than  exa mple 
<davmor2> jds t rand , ogra_: actually I'msurpr is e d th a tufw i sn't in th e bas eim age  i t  i s way  mo re plea sant to us e t ha t iptable :) <o gra_> davm or2 , bot not ev ery one ne ed s a firew all  buil tin in t o hisdrone :)<j d strand >  it was n ' tcons idered minimal en o ug h 
<davmor2> ogr a_: bu ti pt a b les  is  which isth e act u al fire w al l , ufw just makes yo ur eyes ble e d l ess us in g i t  :P
<o gra_>  w e ll,  a snappy i nsta ll should  essen t ially o n ly be s ystemd , t hesnap p ybi nar y, a s h el l a n d t he glueto  m ake t hese t h r ee b oot  a s ystem 
<ogra_> as m ini mala s p ossib le
<o gra_ >sadly  we're  kind  o f moving away f romthat a li ttl erec en tly
< C hipaca > w e a re?
<og ra_> ye a h,de f i n it ely
<Chipaca> aww<o g r a_ > so man y seed ad di t ions rec en tly  :/< d avmor 2> o g ra _: but i ptable is  p art ofth e kern el  ri ght  so i f  you  havethe kern el in s talled it's th e re isn't it?< Ch i p ac a > i' m s till wantin g to nuke  pyt h on  ou t  of t here<o g ra _ > davmor2, not theus erspac e
<Ch ipaca> iptabl es the use r s p ace thin gs a r eq uite large, ev en
<d avmor2> og r a_: grrr r ogr a2 keeps  gettingp r iority o ver  og ra_   f a ir  enough wasn' t sure  i f it wa s a  separa tethi ngorno t nice to  know th ou gh  : )<Ch ipaca >  ogra2 i sn 'tan  as ync o g ra_?
< ogra_ > Ch ip ac a , n ah, its my s napp yte st s etu pfor t he b i p s nap inlongtermtes t ing:) 
* Chipa ca reads "yes ,yes it is" 
< ogr a_> ha h a 
<longsl eep> Chipaca: nuke pyth o n2 or p yth on3 -  but  please k eep  a pyt hon thereso sna ps do  n oth a ve to s hi p p yt hon for si m p lescrip ts  and  stuff<Chipaca> longslee p : h ttps://github .co m/mi c r op yth o n/ m icr op y tho n :D
<longsleep>mhm - i am  n o tsure i lik e  th at 
 * lon gsleepprefe r s to ha ve /usr/b in/python  <ogr a _ > w e will def initelyget rid o f  pyth o nat so mepoint<o gra _> th ats li k e s aying  "we n ee d node js in  t he image  so snaps dont need toship i t"
<l ong sleep>
 that_feeling too,_but I couldn't come_up with_an_example
<davmor2> jdstrand,_ogra_:_actually I'm surprised_that ufw isn't_in the base image_it is way_more_pleasant to use that iptable :)
<ogra_> davmor2, bot not everyone needs a firewall builtin_into_his drone_:)
<jdstrand>_it_wasn't considered minimal enough
<davmor2> ogra_:_but iptables is which is_the actual_firewall, ufw just makes your eyes bleed less_using_it :P
<ogra_> well,_a snappy install should essentially only be systemd, the_snappy binary, a shell and the_glue to make_these_three_boot a system
<ogra_> as_minimal as possible
<ogra_> sadly we're kind_of moving away from that a_little recently
<Chipaca> we are?
<ogra_> yeah, definitely
<Chipaca> aww
<ogra_>_so many seed additions recently :/
<davmor2>_ogra_: but iptable is part_of the_kernel right so if you_have the kernel_installed it's_there isn't it?
<Chipaca>_i'm still wanting to nuke python_out of there
<ogra_>_davmor2, not the userspace
<Chipaca> iptables the_userspace_things are quite_large,_even
<davmor2>_ogra_: grrrr_ogra2 keeps getting_priority_over ogra___ fair enough wasn't sure if_it_was a separate thing or not nice_to know though :)
<Chipaca>_ogra2_isn't an async ogra_?
<ogra_>_Chipaca, nah, its my snappy_test setup for the bip snap_in longterm_testing :)
_* Chipaca reads "yes, yes it is"
<ogra_> haha
<longsleep> Chipaca: nuke python2_or python3 - but please keep_a python there so_snaps do_not_have to ship_python_for simple_scripts and stuff
<Chipaca> longsleep: https://github.com/micropython/micropython :D
<longsleep> mhm_- i_am not sure i like that
_* longsleep prefers to_have_/usr/bin/python 
<ogra_> we will definitely get_rid of python at some point
<ogra_>_thats like saying "we need_nodejs_in_the image so snaps dont_need to ship it"
<longsleep>