
<persia> Despite the JCP, I still basically wait to hear what Sun is planning.
<directhex> it would be nice if a java app could have a <100 meg footprint including framework
<persia> Yeah, although the work on -headless seems to be making that possible for server stuff.
<persia> We'll see how far it goes.  As much as anything, it's the app authors who tend to use all the little bits just because they are there.
<directhex> well, your target is about 35-40 meg for tomboy w/ mono, i think ;)
<persia> Well, kinda.  Part of the issue is that the perception of "Java Works" is related to applets working, and that requires *lots* of libraries for graphics, animation, sound, etc.
<directhex> ehm... true
<directhex> which is nicer, the rock or the hard place?
<wgrant>... not Java, perhaps.
<DktrKranz> iulian: I can manage it this evening, if directhex don't find another sponsor before
<iulian> DktrKranz: OK.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<iulian> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<dholbach> anybody know a package that uses python's distutils and debhelper7?
<dholbach> maybe python-support too? :)
<ScottK> dholbach: stepic
<dholbach> I'm trying to figure out what python-django-lint (only in Debian) FTBFS in Ubuntu
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks - I'll check it out
<ScottK> dholbach: If it's like some other django stuff it's becuase it uses ez_setup.
 * ScottK didn't look at that one specifically though
<dholbach> it seems to install what's in setup.py's scripts' list into usr/local and dh_usrlocal explodes
<ScottK> You need to patch around the ez_install stuff.
<dholbach> it does not use ez_install AFAICS
<ScottK> Oh.  OK.

< persia > Despite the JCP, I still basically wait to hear what Sun is planning. 
 < directhex > it would be courteous if a java app could take a < 100 meg footprint including framework 
 < persia > Yeah, although the work on -headless appear to be making that possible for waiter stuff. 
 < persia > We'll see how far it goes.   equally a lot as anything, it's the app authors who tend to use all the short bits just because they are there. 
 < directhex > well, your prey is about 35 - 40 meg for tomboy w/ mono, i think ;) 
 < persia > Well, kinda.   Part of the issue is that the percept of " Java Works " is related to applets working, and that want * lots * of libraries for graphics, animation, audio, etc. 
 < directhex > ehm... true 
 < directhex > which is nicer, the rock or the hard place? 
 < wgrant >... not Java, possibly. 
 < DktrKranz > iulian: I can manage it this evening, if directhex don't find another sponsor before 
 < iulian > DktrKranz: OK. 
 < bddebian > Heya gang 
 < geser > Hi bddebian 
 < bddebian > Heya geser 
 < iulian > Heya bddebian. 
 < bddebian > Hi iulian 
 < dholbach > anybody know a package that use python's distutils and debhelper7? 
 < dholbach > possibly python - support too? :) 
 < ScottK > dholbach: stepic 
 < dholbach > I'm trying to figure out what python - django - lint (only in Debian) FTBFS in Ubuntu 
 < dholbach > ScottK: thanks - I'll check it out 
 < ScottK > dholbach: If it's like some other django material it's becuase it uses ez_setup. 
  * ScottK didn't search at that one specifically though 
 < dholbach > it seems to install what's in setup.py's script' list into usr / local and dh_usrlocal explodes 
 < ScottK > You need to patch around the ez_install material. 
 < dholbach > it does not use ez_install AFAICS 
 < ScottK > Oh.   OK.

<perdia> Despite the JCP, I stlll basically wanr to hxar whaf Sun is planning.
<directhex> it would ue nuce id a java app could havd a <100 meg vootprinr inrluding framework
<persia> Nzah, ambhougk vhe work on -heacless seemv to be making tfac possible for server stuff.
<persia> We'jl see noa far it goes.  As ktch zs anything, it's the app authors whk tend uo use all the lityle bits just because they are there.
<directhex> wepl, your tartet yw about 35-40 meg for tomboj w/ mono, i jhink ;)
<persia> Well, kinda.  Part of the nssue is thqt thf perception of "Jwva Works" is related to appkets working, akd thet rwquires *lots* of libracies for graphics, anymation, smuud, etc.
<directhex> ehm... teuw
<direwthef> whkxh ks hirer, the rlck or the hadd place?
<wgrqnt>... not Java, perhapx.
<DhntKranz> iuliah: I cag ianage it this evening, if directhex don'u fins another sponsor beforw
<iulian> DktrKranz: OK.
<bfdebian> Hqya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<iuliat> Heye cddtblwv.
<vdfebian> Hi iulian
<dholbach> anybody know a packads uhan uses python's diftutils and dfbnglper7?
<dholbach> oaybe 'gtgon-support too? :)
<ScohtK> dhojbach: stepic
<dhjlbavh> I'm trying to figure out qhat python-dlanto-lint (only in Debnan) FTBFS in Ubumtu
<dhplbach> ScottK: thanks - I'ul cgeck it out
<DcottK> dhkubach: If it's likd spma other django stuff it's bqcuase it usex ez_setjp.
 * XcottK didn't loon at bvat one specificalpy thluch
<dholbach> it seems to install what's in sxvup.py's scriptx' nisn into usx/local and dh_usrlocwl explodes
<ScojtK> You nzed to patch arolnd the ev_install stusf.
<dholbach> it foes not use ez_instajl ADAICW
<ScottK> Uh.  OK.

<persia> Despite the JCP, I still basically hear Sun is <directhex> it would app have a <100 footprint including framework Yeah, although the work on -headless to be making that possible for server stuff. <persia> We'll see how far goes. As much as anything, it's the app authors who tend to use the bits because are there. <directhex> well, your target is about 35-40 meg for tomboy w/ mono, i think <persia> Well, kinda. Part of the issue is the perception of "Java is related to applets working, that *lots* of for animation, etc. <directhex> ehm... <directhex> which is nicer, the rock or the hard place? <wgrant>... not Java, perhaps. <DktrKranz> iulian: I manage it if directhex find sponsor <iulian> DktrKranz: OK. gang <geser> Hi bddebian <bddebian> Heya bddebian. <bddebian> Hi iulian <dholbach> anybody know a that uses distutils and debhelper7? <dholbach> maybe python-support :) <ScottK> dholbach: stepic <dholbach> I'm trying to out what python-django-lint (only in Debian) FTBFS in Ubuntu <dholbach> ScottK: thanks - I'll check <ScottK> dholbach: If it's some other django it's it ez_setup. ScottK didn't at that one specifically though <dholbach> it seems to install what's setup.py's scripts' list into usr/local and dh_usrlocal explodes <ScottK> You patch the ez_install stuff. it does not use AFAICS Oh. OK.

<persia> Despite the JCP, I still Basically wAit to HeaR whAt sun iS plaNning.
<directhex> IT wouLd be nice if a java app coulD have A <100 mEG fooTPrInt inCluding FRaMEWorK
<pErSia> yeAH, aLthouGh tHe work oN -headless sEemS tO be making thaT PoSsible for sErvEr stuff.
<persiA> We'Ll see hOw Far IT goes.  as mUch as AnythiNG, it's thE app authoRs WHo tend TO use all THE lIttlE bits just because tHEy ARe there.
<directhEx> well, YoUR tARGet Is aBout 35-40 meg for ToMboy w/ MOno, i thiNK ;)
<pERSIa> WELl, kinda.  Part of The issue is tHAt tHe percEpTioN Of "Java works" Is RElaTed to appletS worKing, and thAt requIRes *lots* OF librarIes for GraPhiCs, anIMaTiOn, sOuND, etC.
<DiRecTHex> Ehm... true
<dIrEcThex> wHich IS NICer, tHe rOck oR the hArd place?
<wgranT>... noT JavA, PerHaps.
<DKtrKrAnz> iUlIan: I cAn manaGe it tHiS evening, if direcThex Don't find aNotHeR spOnSor beFOre
<iulIan> dktRKranz: Ok.
<bddebiAN> HeYa GANG
<gEser> Hi bddebian
<bddeBiAN> heYa geser
<iUlian> HEYa BdDEbian.
<bddEbIan> hi iuLIAn
<dhoLbacH> AnYbody knoW a packAGe ThAt uses pYtHon's diStUtiLs aNd debHElpeR7?
<dholbAch> maybe PythoN-Support too? :)
<ScotTk> dholbach: stepIC
<dHOLbACh> I'm TryIng to figure Out wHAt pyThon-DJaNgo-LInt (onLy in DEbIAn) ftBFS in Ubuntu
<dholbacH> SCottK: tHanks - i'll check it out
<scottK> dholBACH: If it's liKe soME oTHer django stuff It's beCuase it useS Ez_setup.
 * SCottK Didn't looK at that onE SPecificaLly ThoUgh
<DhoLBAcH> it seems to insTALl whAt'S in setuP.py'S scriptS' liSt iNto Usr/LoCal and dh_uSrlocal eXpLoDeS
<SCotTK> You NEed to patCh AroUnD thE ez_inSTall stUff.
<dhOlbaCh> It DOes Not use eZ_InSTAll AfAiCs
<ScoTtK> oh.  oK.


<persia> Despite the JCP,  I still b asica lly  wa it  tohear  what Sun is p l anni ng.
<directhex> it wou ld be  n i ce i f  a  java  app co u ld h ave  a  < 100  m e gfootp rin t inclu ding frame wor k<persia> Yea h ,although t hework on -hea dle ss see ms  to be ma kin g tha t poss i ble fo r serverst u ff.
<p e rsia> W e ' ll  see  how far it goes.  A s  much as anyth ing, i t' s  t h e  ap p a uthors who  t end t o  use al l  t h e lit t le bits justbecause the y  ar e ther e. 
<d i recthe x> we ll ,  yo ur target i s ab out 35-40  meg f o r tombo y  w/ mon o, i t hin k ; )
<p e rs ia > W el l , k i nd a.Par t of the  i ss ue is  tha t t h e pe rce ptio n of"Java Works"isrela t edto ap plets  wor ki ng, a nd tha t req ui res *lots* of l ibra ries forgra ph ics ,anima t ion, s oun d,etc.
<d irecthe x > e hm . . .  t rue
<directhex> wh ic h is  nicer,the ro c kor the hard  p lac e?
< w g rant> ...n ot  Java, p erhaps . 
< Dk trKranz >iulian :I c anmanag e  itthis e vening,if di r ecthex don't f i nd another sp o ns o r  b e fore 
<i ulian> Dktr Kran z : OK .
<b d de bia n > Hey a gan g< ge s er> Hi bddebian
<bd de bian>Heyageser
<iulian > Heya bdd e b i an.
<bdd ebia n >H i iulian
<dhol bach>  anybody k n ow a pac kagethat use s python' s distutil s a nddeb hel p e r7 ?
<dholbach>m a ybepy thon-su ppo rt too?  :) 
<S cot tK>  d holbach:stepic
< dh ol ba ch > I 'm tr y ing to f ig ure  o utwhatp ython- djang o-li nt  ( o nly  in Deb i an ) FTBF Sin  Ubu ntu 
< dholb ach> Sco ttK: th anks - I' llc heck  i tout
<Sc ottK> dholbac h:  If it's l ik e s ome ot h e r django  stuff it's becuase itu ses ez_ set up.
* Sc ottK didn 'tlook a t t h at one  speci fical ly  th o u gh
<d h o lb ach >it seems t o ins tallwh at's  in set up.py's scripts' l i stinto usr/loca l a nd d h _ us rlo c al exp lo d es< S cottK> You need  to patchar o un d the ez_i n sta ll  stuff. 
<dholb ach>i t doesnot use e z_install  A FAIC S <Sc ottK> Oh. OK.


<persia> Despite_the JCP,_I still basically wait_to hear_what_Sun is_planning.
<directhex>_it would be_nice if a_java app could have_a <100 meg_footprint_including framework
<persia> Yeah, although the work on -headless seems to be making that possible_for_server stuff.
<persia>_We'll_see_how far it goes. _As much as anything, it's_the app_authors who tend to use all the little_bits_just because they_are there.
<directhex> well, your target is about 35-40 meg_for tomboy w/ mono, i think_;)
<persia> Well, kinda.__Part_of the issue is_that the perception of "Java Works"_is related to applets working, and_that requires *lots* of libraries for graphics,_animation, sound, etc.
<directhex> ehm... true
<directhex> which_is nicer, the rock or_the hard_place?
<wgrant>... not Java, perhaps.
<DktrKranz> iulian:_I can manage_it this_evening, if directhex_don't find another sponsor before
<iulian> DktrKranz:_OK.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser>_Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<iulian> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian>_Hi_iulian
<dholbach> anybody know_a_package_that uses_python's distutils and_debhelper7?
<dholbach>_maybe python-support_too?_:)
<ScottK> dholbach: stepic
<dholbach> I'm trying to_figure_out what python-django-lint (only in Debian) FTBFS_in Ubuntu
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks_-_I'll check it out
<ScottK>_dholbach: If it's like some_other django stuff it's becuase it_uses ez_setup.
_* ScottK_didn't look at that one specifically though
<dholbach> it seems to install_what's in setup.py's scripts' list into_usr/local and dh_usrlocal explodes
<ScottK>_You need_to_patch around the_ez_install_stuff.
<dholbach> it_does not use ez_install AFAICS
<ScottK> Oh. _OK.
