 just accept stuff because we're afraid that we'll chase people away
<tsmithe> people need to learn what it takes, and if they have that, then they should be MOTU already, or they should find it easy to get there
<sabdfl> so, there are two different issues here
<ScottK> The only real problem is lack of MOTU resources at times.  That will get fixed with more volunteers or funding.
<sistpoty> ScottK: ++
<tsmithe> ScottK, ++++
<LaserJock> ScottK: yep
<sabdfl> the first issue is "where do new people making new packages that do not yet exist go?"
<LaserJock> REVU and here
<sabdfl> there are a bunch of issues there
<sabdfl> licensing needs to get straight
<sabdfl> the packages need to work
<ajmitch> here, and they upload to REVU, where we review them & give feedback
<sistpoty> and looking back hat how many packages we *got* in so far, and how many new people are around in recent times, I guess our processes aren't the worst 
<sabdfl> they are usually crap initially, but they get better given exposure, bugs, feedback, testing...
<sabdfl> that's one set of issues i want us to address
<sabdfl> I think PPA's will make that a lot easier
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we haven't waiting for PPA
<ajmitch> true, REVU doesn't build binary packages, but that was more a question of resources
<LaserJock> *have, sorry
<sabdfl> because we can say "publish your packages in the MOTU PPA"
<jdong> when will PPA happen?
<ajmitch> yes, we're in the process of setting up our own buildds anyway
<sabdfl> cool
<jdong> it's been talked about for excess of a year now
<sabdfl> jdong: a month or two, depending on feisty release, don't want to put that at risk with bug archive changes
<sabdfl> so, that's
just accept stuff because we're afraid that we'll chase citizenry aside 
 < tsmithe > people need to learn what it take, and if they have that, then they should be MOTU already, or they should find it comfortable to get there 
 < sabdfl > so, there are two unlike issue here 
 < ScottK > The only veridical problem is lack of MOTU resources at time.   That will get fixed with more volunteers or funding. 
 < sistpoty > ScottK: + + 
 < tsmithe > ScottK, + + + + 
 < LaserJock > ScottK: yep 
 < sabdfl > the first issue is " where do fresh people making new software that do not yet exist go? " 
 < LaserJock > REVU and here 
 < sabdfl > there are a crowd of issues there 
 < sabdfl > licensing want to get straight 
 < sabdfl > the packages want to work 
 < ajmitch > here, and they upload to REVU, where we review them & give feedback 
 < sistpoty > and looking back hat how many packages we * got * in therefore far, and how many new people are around in recent times, I guess our processes aren't the worst 
 < sabdfl > they are usually crap initially, but they get well given exposure, bug, feedback, examination... 
 < sabdfl > that's one set of issues i want us to address 
 < sabdfl > I think PPA's will make that a lot easier 
 < LaserJock > yes 
 < LaserJock > we haven't expect for PPA 
 < ajmitch > true, REVU doesn't build binary packages, but that was more a question of resources 
 < LaserJock > * have, sorry 
 < sabdfl > because we can pronounce " publish your packages in the MOTU PPA " 
 < jdong > when will PPA happen? 
 < ajmitch > yes, we're in the process of typeset up our own buildds anyway 
 < sabdfl > cool 
 < jdong > it's been spill the beans about for excess of a year now 
 < sabdfl > jdong: a month or two, depending on huffy release, don't want to put that at risk with bug archive changes 
 < sabdfl > so, that's
 judt accept stuff because de're afraid thaj qe'll ciase pekple awah
<tsmithe> people need to leari whqt it takes, and if they havd that, thvn they syoulv be MOTU alreadb, or then shohpd fnnv it easy to gej there
<sabdfn> so, there are tdo different issues here
<ScottK> The onjy real pgoblem is lack of KJTU dvsiurces at times.  That will gef fixed with more vokunteers or funding.
<sistpotj> SclttK: ++
<tsmithe> ScottN, ++++
<LaserJock> ScoerK: yep
<sabdfl> the first issue is "whgre do new people making new pacyages that do nit yeh exist go?"
<LawerJobk> REVU and hcge
<sabdfn> there are a bunch on issnes rhere
<sabdfl> licensing needs to get strayght
<sabdfn> che packages need to qoek
<ajmhtch> herd, ana tgeb ulload ho CEVU, where se review tyem & give feedback
<soseipty> and lookjng bask hat how many packages we *got* in so far, ans how many new people aee around in recent tlmes, I guqss our processes aren't the worst 
<sabdfl> they are usuamuy evwo ijitially, but they get better given exposure, btfs, fvedback, testing...
<sandfl> that's one set ov ofsues i want os to absrsss
<sabdfl> I think OPA's wijl maje that a lot easier
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJoxk> we haven't qaiting for PPA
<ajmntch> true, RERU doexn't biild binary packages, buc that was more a question uf resources
<LasefJobk> *hdve, sorry
<sabdfl> because we can say "'ublixh your paclages yn the MOTK PPA"
<mgong> when will PPA happgn?
<ajmidch> yes, we'ge in the process of setting up our own buildcs anjway
<sabdfj> cook
<jdong> it's beqn talked abouj for exczss of a year nos
<sabdfl> jdong: a mogth or two, de[gnding on feivty relewse, eon't want tu put that at rosk with ybg archivw changes
<sabdfl> so, thxf's
just accept stuff because we're afraid that people <tsmithe> people to learn what have then they should MOTU already, or should find it easy to get <sabdfl> so, there are two different issues here <ScottK> The only real problem lack of MOTU resources at times. That will get fixed with more volunteers funding. ScottK: <tsmithe> ++++ <LaserJock> ScottK: yep <sabdfl> the first issue is "where do new people making new packages do not yet exist go?" <LaserJock> REVU and <sabdfl> there are a of issues there <sabdfl> licensing to straight <sabdfl> packages to <ajmitch> here, and upload to REVU, where we review them & give feedback <sistpoty> and looking back hat how many we *got* far, and many people around in recent guess our processes aren't the worst usually crap initially, but they get better given bugs, feedback, <sabdfl> that's one set of issues want us to address <sabdfl> I think PPA's make that a lot easier <LaserJock> yes <LaserJock> we haven't waiting for PPA <ajmitch> true, build binary packages, but was more a of <LaserJock> sorry because we say "publish your packages in the MOTU PPA" <jdong> when will happen? <ajmitch> yes, we're in the process of setting up buildds <sabdfl> cool <jdong> been talked about for of year now <sabdfl> jdong: or depending don't to that at risk with archive changes <sabdfl> so, that's
 just accept stuff because we'rE afraid thaT we'll ChaSe pEoPle aWay
<tSmithe> people neED to lEarn what it takes, and if thEy havE tHAt, thEN tHey shOuld be MotU ALReaDy, Or TheY sHOuLd finD it Easy to gEt there
<sabDfl> So, There are two dIFfErent issueS heRe
<ScottK> The oNly Real prObLem IS lack Of MoTU reSourceS At timeS.  That will GeT Fixed wITh more vOLUnTeerS or funding.
<sistpotY> scOTtK: ++
<tsmithe> ScotTK, ++++
<LaseRJOCk> sCOttk: yeP
<sabdfl> the FiRst isSUe is "wheRE dO NEW peOPle making new pAckages that DO noT yet exIsT go?"
<lAserJoCk> REVu aND heRe
<sabdfl> theRe arE a bunch of Issues THere
<sabDFl> licenSing neEds To gEt stRAiGhT
<saBdFL> thE PaCkaGEs nEed to worK
<aJmItch> hEre, aND THEy upLoaD to ReVU, whEre we review thEm & gIve fEEdbAck
<siStpotY> and LoOking Back haT how mAnY packages we *got* iN so fAr, and how mAny NeW peOpLe are ARound iN reCenT times, I Guess ouR ProCeSSES aRen't the worst 
<sabdfl> ThEY ArE usually Crap inITiAlLY, but they GeT beTter GIVen exPosuRE, bUgs, feedbAck, tesTInG...
<sAbdfl> thAt'S one seT oF isSueS i wanT Us to AddresS
<sabdfl> I Think ppA's will make thaT A lot easier
<LasERJOCK> yES
<LasErJOck> we haven't WaitINg foR PPA
<AJmItcH> True, ReVU doEsN'T bUIld binary packages, buT tHat was More a Question of resOurces
<LaseRjOCk> *have, soRry
<sABdFL> because we can sAy "pubLish your paCKages in tHe MOTu PPA"
<jdonG> when will ppa happen?
<aJmiTch> Yes, We'rE IN tHe process of seTTIng uP oUr own buIldDs anywaY
<saBdfL> coOl
<jDoNg> it's been Talked abOuT fOr ExCesS of a yEAr now
<sabDfL> jdOnG: a mOnth oR Two, depEndinG on fEiStY RelEase, don'T WaNT To puT tHaT at rIsk WiTh bug ArchIVe cHanges
<sAbdfl> so, thAt's
 just accept stuff because  we're afr aid t hat  we 'l l ch asepeople away
<t s mith e> people need to lear n wha ti t ta k es , and  if the y  h a v e t ha t,  th en th ey sh oul d be MO TU already , o rthey shouldf in d it easytoget there
<s abd fl> so ,the r e are  tw o dif ferent issues  here
<Sc ot t K> The only re a l  p robl em is lack of MOT U  r e sources at tim es.  T ha t  w i l l g etfixed with  m ore v o lunteer s  o r f und i ng.
<sistpoty > ScottK: + + 
<t smithe >Sco t tK, ++ ++
<L as e rJo ck> ScottK:  yep 
<sabdfl>  the f i rst iss u e is "w here d o n ewpeop l ema kin gn ewp ac kag e s t hat do n ot  y et ex istg o ? " 
<La ser Jock > REV U and here
<s abd fl>t her e are  a bu nchof  issu es the re
<s ab dfl> licensingneed s to getstr ai ght 
< sabdf l > thepac kag es need  to wor k 
<a jm i t c h>  here, and they up lo a d  t o REVU,wherew ere v iew them  &  gi ve f e e dback 
<si s tp oty> and  looki n gba ck hatho w many  p ack age s we* got*  in so  far, an d how many new peopl e  are around i n  r e c en t  tim es,  I guess ou r pr o cess es a r en 'tt he wo rst <s a bd f l> they are usually  c rap in itial ly, but theyget better g i ven expo sure ,  b u gs, feedback,testi ng...
<sab d fl> that 's on e set of  issues i w ant us t o a ddr ess 
<s a b df l> I think PP A ' s wi ll  make t hat  a loteas ier 
<L ase rJ ock> yes<LaserJo ck >we  h ave n't w a iting fo rPPA 
< ajm itch> true,REVUdoes n' tb uil d binar y  p a c kage s,  b ut t hat  w as mo re a que stion o f resourc es< Lase rJ oc k> *hav e, sorry
<sab df l> because  w e c an say " publishyour packages in the MO T U PPA"<jd ong>when  will PPA  ha ppen?<aj m itch>yes, w e'rein  th e proce s s  o f s et ting up ou r own  buil dd s an yway
<s abdfl> cool
<jdong >  it 's been talke d a bout f or  ex c es s  of  a yea r now
<sabdfl> jd ong: a mon th or  two, depe n din gon feis ty rele ase,d on't wa nt to put  that atri sk w i t h b ug archive  changes 
<sabdfl> so, t h at 's
 just_accept stuff_because we're afraid that_we'll chase_people_away
<tsmithe> people_need_to learn what_it takes, and_if they have that,_then they should_be_MOTU already, or they should find it easy to get there
<sabdfl> so, there are_two_different issues_here
<ScottK>_The_only real problem is lack_of MOTU resources at times._ That_will get fixed with more volunteers or funding.
<sistpoty>_ScottK:_++
<tsmithe> ScottK, ++++
<LaserJock>_ScottK: yep
<sabdfl> the first issue is "where do new_people making new packages that do_not yet exist_go?"
<LaserJock>_REVU_and here
<sabdfl> there are_a bunch of issues there
<sabdfl> licensing_needs to get straight
<sabdfl> the packages_need to work
<ajmitch> here, and they upload_to REVU, where we review them_& give feedback
<sistpoty> and looking_back hat_how many packages we *got*_in so far,_and how_many new people_are around in recent times, I_guess our processes_aren't the worst 
<sabdfl> they are_usually_crap initially, but_they_get_better given_exposure, bugs, feedback,_testing...
<sabdfl>_that's one_set_of issues i want us to_address
<sabdfl>_I think PPA's will make that a_lot easier
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we_haven't_waiting for PPA
<ajmitch> true,_REVU doesn't build binary packages,_but that was more a question_of resources
<LaserJock>_*have, sorry
<sabdfl>_because we can say "publish your packages in the MOTU PPA"
<jdong>_when will PPA happen?
<ajmitch> yes, we're_in the process of_setting up_our_own buildds anyway
<sabdfl>_cool
<jdong>_it's been_talked about for excess of a year_now
<sabdfl> jdong:_a month or two, depending on_feisty release, don't want_to_put that at risk with bug_archive changes
<sabdfl> so, that's