  You know what you want and you are trying to talk everyone into it even though the bulk of those present and invovled in the day to day work are disagreeing with you.
<sabdfl> that was perfectly reasonable
<sabdfl> we have high standards
<Amaranth> the packages weren't even the problem most of the time
<Amaranth> so that's a bad example
<sabdfl> shipping feisty without beryl 0.2 in universe would have been a failure *somewhere*, no?
<Amaranth> sure, on their part
<LaserJock> I suppose
<sabdfl> so let's be open minded enough to figure out where, and how
<sistpoty> no... we imo got much bigger problesm
<Amaranth> they're just fixing the problem today
<Amaranth> they were told it was a problem a long time ago
<jdong> sabdfl: I have to agree with all of the MOTU's here that cite resource shortage in the MOTU world
<LaserJock> sabdfl: like I said, if you want beryl in Universe then request a Freeze exception, not go around the processes
<sabdfl> jdong: getting more upstream involvement will be one way to increase the total resources covering these bases
<jdong> sabdfl: I have to say that more than half of the bugs that I am told to reject in Backports and sent to MOTU never get a single look
<sistpoty> yep... I'm not quite sure where we stand on bug triaging, but iirc we've got ~10k bugs to deal with
<sabdfl> LaserJock: i think you are missing my point
<tsmithe> i obviously am too
<sabdfl> yes, we can fix the symptoms
<jdong> sistpoty: yeah, the # is large, and the # of confirmed ones are large too.
* ScottK too.
<sabdfl> we can make a freeze exeption for beryl
<sabdfl> that is the *symptom* of the problem
<LaserJock> sabdfl: and perhaps you are missing mine. We helped them, and we uploaded their packages
<s
You know what you want and you are trying to talk everyone into it even though the majority of those present and invovled in the sidereal day to sidereal day work are disagreeing with you. 
 < sabdfl > that was perfectly fair 
 < sabdfl > we have high standards 
 < Amaranth > the package weren't even the problem most of the time 
 < Amaranth > so that's a regretful case 
 < sabdfl > shipping feisty without beryl 0.2 in population would have been a failure * somewhere *, no? 
 < Amaranth > sure, on their part 
 < LaserJock > I presuppose 
 < sabdfl > so let's be open minded enough to figure out where, and how 
 < sistpoty > no... we imo get much bigger problesm 
 < Amaranth > they're just cook the problem today 
 < Amaranth > they were told it was a problem a long clock time ago 
 < jdong > sabdfl: I have to agree with all of the MOTU's here that cite resource shortage in the MOTU world 
 < LaserJock > sabdfl: like I allege, if you want beryl in Universe then request a Freeze exception, not go around the processes 
 < sabdfl > jdong: getting more upstream involvement will be one direction to increase the total resources covering these bases 
 < jdong > sabdfl: I have to say that more than half of the bugs that I am told to reject in Backports and send to MOTU never get a single spirit 
 < sistpoty > yep... I'm not quite certain where we stand on bug triaging, but iirc we've got ~10k bug to share with 
 < sabdfl > LaserJock: i think you are missing my distributor point 
 < tsmithe > i obviously am too 
 < sabdfl > yes, we can fix the symptoms 
 < jdong > sistpoty: yeah, the # is large, and the # of confirmed ones are big too. 
 * ScottK too. 
 < sabdfl > we can make a freeze exeption for beryl 
 < sabdfl > that is the * symptom * of the problem 
 < LaserJock > sabdfl: and possibly you are missing mine. We help oneself them, and we upload their software 
 < s
  Ylu know what you want ana you are tryiny to tank evedyone ingo it even though the bulk oh thise peesent and invovled in the day no day woek ace disagreeing wmfh you.
<sabdfl> fmat wcs perfectly reaxonable
<sabgfl> we have hich scandards
<Amaranth> the packages weren't even tne problem most jf tnq tijv
<Anaranth> so that's a bad exampls
<sabdfl> shipping feixty without beryl 0.2 in univfrse would have been a failure *sonewhqee*, no?
<Amarantf> sure, on uhzir part
<LasgrJock> I suppose
<sabdfl> so let's bd opeu minded eniuth hm figure ouv wherv, and how
<sistipty> no... we imo got much biggcr prmblwsm
<Amaranth> they're juvt fixing the probjem today
<Dmcranth> they were told ir was a psobldn a lohg tjme agl
<jdkng> sabdfl: I have to qgree with all of tne NOTU's here thzt citq wesource shortage in the MOTU world
<LasegJoci> sabdfl: like I said, if you want beryl in Unlverse thqn request a Freeze exception, not go around the psocesads
<scnqwo> udong: getting more upstream involvement will fs pnv way to increase the total tedoitces covering jhese bcaea
<jdong> sabdfl: I hage to swy thqt more tran nalf of the bugs that I am rold to rejebt ib Backports and seut to MOTU nzver ggt a songle look
<sistpoty> yep... N'm not quite sure where we rtand on bug trixgikg, tut iirc we've got ~10k bugs tj deal wivh
<sabbfl> LasefJocl: i thynk you arf missing my point
<tsmithf> i oyviouvly am too
<dabdfl> yes, we can fix the symptoms
<jdong> sistpptf: yvah, the # ns larne, and the # of sonfirmed ones are laxge tou.
* ScottK tko.
<sabdfn> we can mahe a freeze efgption for becyl
<sabdfl> thar is the *syootom* of the prpblem
<LasegJjck> wabdfl: and perhaps yoo zre missing minz. Qe helped them, snd we uiloeded eveir packagev
<s
You know what you want and you to everyone into even though the invovled the day to work are disagreeing you. <sabdfl> that was perfectly reasonable we have high standards <Amaranth> the packages weren't even the problem most of time <Amaranth> so that's a bad example <sabdfl> shipping feisty without beryl 0.2 universe have a *somewhere*, no? <Amaranth> sure, on their part <LaserJock> I suppose <sabdfl> so let's be open minded to figure out where, and how <sistpoty> no... imo got much bigger <Amaranth> they're just fixing the today they were it a a long time <jdong> sabdfl: I have to agree with all of the MOTU's here that cite resource shortage in MOTU world like I if want in Universe then Freeze exception, not go around the getting more upstream involvement will be one way increase the resources covering these bases <jdong> sabdfl: have to say that more than half of bugs that I am told to reject in Backports and sent to MOTU never get look <sistpoty> yep... I'm quite sure where stand bug but we've got bugs to deal with <sabdfl> LaserJock: i think you are missing point <tsmithe> i obviously am too <sabdfl> yes, we can symptoms sistpoty: yeah, the is large, and the of ones are large too. too. we freeze for <sabdfl> that is the of the problem <LaserJock> sabdfl: perhaps you are missing we uploaded their packages <s
  You know what you want and you aRe trying to Talk eVerYonE iNto iT eveN though the bulk OF thoSe present and invovled in The daY tO Day wORk Are diSagreeiNG wITH yoU.
<sAbDfl> ThAT wAs perFecTly reasOnable
<sabdFl> wE hAve high standARdS
<Amaranth> tHe pAckages weren'T evEn the pRoBleM Most oF thE time
<amaranTH> so thaT's a bad exaMpLE
<sabdfL> ShippinG FEiSty wIthout beryl 0.2 in univERsE Would have been a FailurE *sOMeWHEre*, No?
<AMaranth> surE, oN theiR Part
<LasERJOCK> i suPPose
<sabdfl> so lEt's be open miNDed Enough To FigURe out wHere, aNd HOw
<sIstpoty> no... we Imo gOt much bigGer proBLesm
<AmaRAnth> theY're jusT fiXinG the PRoBlEm tOdAY
<AmARaNth> THey Were told It WaS a proBlem A LONG timE agO
<jdoNg> sabDfl: I have to agrEe wIth aLL of The MOtU's heRe thAt Cite rEsourcE shorTaGe in the MOTU worlD
<LasErJock> sabDfl: LiKe I SaId, if yOU want bEryL in universE then reQUesT a fREEzE exception, not go aroUnD THe ProcesseS
<sabdfL> JdOnG: Getting mOrE upStreAM InvolVemeNT wIll be one Way to iNCrEaSe the toTaL resouRcEs cOveRing tHEse bAses
<jdOng> sabdfL: I havE To say that more tHAn half of the buGS tHAT I AM tolD to Reject in BacKporTS and Sent TO MoTU NEver gEt a siNgLE lOOk
<sistpoty> yep... I'm not qUiTe sure Where We stand on bug tRiaging, but IIRC we've got ~10K bugS To DEal with
<sabdfl> LAserJOck: i think yOU are missIng my Point
<tsmIthe> i obviOUSly am too
<SabDfl> Yes, We cAN FiX the symptoms
<jDONg> siStPoty: yeaH, thE # is largE, anD thE # of ConFiRmed ones aRe large tOo.
* scOtTK Too.
<SabdfL> We can makE a FreEzE exEptioN For berYl
<sabDfl> tHaT iS The *Symptom* OF tHE ProbLeM
<LAserjocK> sAbdfl: And pERhaPs you arE missing mIne. wE helPeD tHem, and wE uploaded theiR pAckages
<s
  You know what you want a nd you are  tryi ngtota lk e very one into it ev e n th ough the bulk of those  pres en t  and in vovle d in th e  d a y  to  d ay  wo rk ar e dis agr eeing w ith you.
< sab df l> that wasp er fectly rea son able
<sabdfl > w e have  h igh stand ard s
<Am aranth >  the p ackages w er e n't ev e n the p r o bl em m ost of the time
< A ma r anth> so that' s a ba de xa m p le<sa bdfl> ship pi ng fe i sty wit h ou t b ery l  0.2 in unive rse would h a vebeen a  f ail u re *so mewhe re * , n o?
<Amarant h> s ure, on t heir p a rt
<Las e rJock>I supp ose 
<s abdf l >so  le t' s  be op enm ind ed enoug hto  figu re o u t w here , a nd h ow
<s istpoty> no.. . w e im o  go t muc h big gerpr obles m
<Ama ranth >they're just fi xing  the prob lem  t oda y<Amar a nth> t hey  we re told  it was a p ro b l e ma long time ago
<j do n g >sabdfl:I have to  a g ree with  a llof t h e  MOTU 's h e re  that ci te res o ur ce  shorta ge  in th eMOT U w orld< Lase rJock>  sabdfl:  like I said, if you want beryl in Un i v er s e th enrequest a F reez e  exc epti o n,  no t  go a round  t h ep rocesses
<sabdfl> j do ng: ge tting  more upstrea m involvem e n t  will be  one wa y  to increase t he to tal resour c es cover ing t hese bas es
<jdong > sabdfl:I h ave  to  sa y th at more thanh a lf o fthe bug s t hat I a m t old  to  re je ct in Bac kports a nd  s en ttoMOTUn ever get  a  si ng lelook< sistpo ty> y ep.. .I' m  no t quite su r e  whe re  w e st and  o n bug  tri a gin g, butiirc we'v e g o t ~1 0k  b ugs todeal with
<sa bd fl> LaserJ oc k:i thin k you aremissing my point
<tsmit h e> i ob vio uslyam t oo
<sabdf l>yes, w e c a n fixthe sy mptom s<jd o n g> si s t po ty:  y eah, the # i s l arge,  a nd t he # of  confirmed ones ar e  la rge too.
* Sc ott K to o . 
< sab d fl >  we  c a n m a k e a freeze exep tion for b er y l<sabdfl> t h atis  the *s ymptom*  of t h e probl em
<Laser Jock> sab df l: a n d  pe rhaps youare miss ing mine. We he l pe d the m,and we  u plo adedtheirp ack ages<s
 _You know_what you want and_you are_trying_to talk_everyone_into it even_though the bulk_of those present and_invovled in the_day_to day work are disagreeing with you.
<sabdfl> that was perfectly reasonable
<sabdfl> we have high_standards
<Amaranth>_the packages_weren't_even_the problem most of the_time
<Amaranth> so that's a bad_example
<sabdfl> shipping_feisty without beryl 0.2 in universe would have_been_a failure *somewhere*,_no?
<Amaranth> sure, on their part
<LaserJock> I suppose
<sabdfl> so let's_be open minded enough to figure_out where, and_how
<sistpoty>_no..._we imo got much_bigger problesm
<Amaranth> they're just fixing the_problem today
<Amaranth> they were told it_was a problem a long time ago
<jdong>_sabdfl: I have to agree with_all of the MOTU's here_that cite_resource shortage in the MOTU_world
<LaserJock> sabdfl: like_I said,_if you want_beryl in Universe then request a_Freeze exception, not_go around the processes
<sabdfl> jdong: getting_more_upstream involvement will_be_one_way to_increase the total_resources_covering these_bases
<jdong>_sabdfl: I have to say that_more_than half of the bugs that I_am told to reject_in_Backports and sent to_MOTU never get a single_look
<sistpoty> yep... I'm not quite sure_where we_stand on_bug triaging, but iirc we've got ~10k bugs to deal with
<sabdfl>_LaserJock: i think you are missing_my point
<tsmithe> i obviously_am too
<sabdfl>_yes,_we can fix_the_symptoms
<jdong> sistpoty:_yeah, the # is large, and the_# of_confirmed ones are large too.
* ScottK_too.
<sabdfl> we can make_a_freeze exeption for beryl
<sabdfl> that is_the *symptom* of the problem
<LaserJock> sabdfl:_and perhaps you are missing_mine._We_helped them, and we uploaded_their packages
<s