 in a pbuilder for the distro release you want it for.
<enyc> TheMuso: sure.. takes time though... but I can understand that point of view too ;-)
<jdong_> enyc: and speaking as a veteran Gentoo user who has source-compiled his entire system for several years... there is no good gauge of compatibility.
<jdong_> enyc: sometimes you get really weird behavior in an application, and the shlibdeps still "check out" but rebuilding fixes it.
<jdong_> (stale package from a library upgrade)
<TheMuso> I've seen slight upgrades to packages in gentoo that have required a reverse depends rebuild.
<enyc> jdong_: bah! gentoo hassle.. i remember problems with rebuilding libs... then needing to rebuild things to keep them working... big hassle sometimes..
<jdong_> TheMuso: and sometimes revdep-rebuild doesn't catch it either.
<TheMuso> jdong_: Yeah.,
<jdong_> in fact, those are the MOST painful -- where revdep-rebuild doesn't detect it
<enyc> jdong_: seem to need to keep things uptodate often... which can cause problems... mistakes w/ etc-update...
<jdong_> which shows a fundamental flaw in using shlibdeps literally to assess dependencies
<enyc> jdong_: and then... problems if you dont kkep things uptodate
* TheMuso must look at the shlibdeps code at some point.
<jdong_> enyc: aye, it's a "fun" experience but does teach a few lessons about binary compatibility, why rolling versions aren't always good, and so on.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-17
<LaserJock> oh my goodness
<LaserJock> you should see the link I just got in my LUG email
<LaserJock> http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43
<jdong_> LaserJock: no those pills don't work
<enyc> jdong_: what do you mean "rolling versions"??
<jdong_> enyc: the concept that there are no distro releases
in a pbuilder for the distro release you want it for. 
 < enyc > TheMuso: sure.. takes meter though... but I can sympathize that point of view excessively ;-) 
 < jdong _ > enyc: and talk as a veteran Gentoo user who has reservoir - compose his entire system for several years... there be no good gauge of compatibility. 
 < jdong _ > enyc: sometimes you draw really weird behavior in an application, and the shlibdeps still " check out " but rebuild fixes it. 
 < jdong _ > (stale package from a library ascent) 
 < TheMuso > I've seen slight upgrades to packages in gentoo that have required a reversion depends rebuild. 
 < enyc > jdong _: bah! gentoo hassle.. i commemorate problems with rebuilding libs... then needing to rebuild things to prevent them working... big hassle sometimes.. 
 < jdong _ > TheMuso: and sometimes revdep - rebuild doesn't catch it either. 
 < TheMuso > jdong _: Yeah. , 
 < jdong _ > in fact, those are the MOST irritating -- where revdep - rebuild doesn't detect it 
 < enyc > jdong _: seem to need to keep things uptodate often... which can cause problems... mistakes w/ etc - update... 
 < jdong _ > which shows a fundamental defect in use shlibdeps literally to assess colony 
 < enyc > jdong _: and then... problems if you do nt kkep things uptodate 
 * TheMuso must look at the shlibdeps code at some point. 
 < jdong _ > enyc: aye, it's a " fun " experience but does teach a few moral about binary compatibility, why rolling versions aren't always good, and therefore on. 
 # ubuntu - motu 2007 - 03 - 17 
 < LaserJock > oh my goodness 
 < LaserJock > you should see the link I just got in my LUG electronic mail 
 < LaserJock > http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43 
 < jdong _ > LaserJock: no those pills don't work 
 < enyc > jdong _: what do you mean " rolling versions "? ? 
 < jdong _ > enyc: the concept that there are no distro releases
 in a pbuilder for the distvo release you wcbt it hor.
<enyc> TheMuso: sure.. takes time though... but M cab undtgstand that point of xiew too ;-)
<udong_> entc: aid speaking as a veteran Gentok usex xho has source-cpmpiled hiv entire systek wox several years... there is no good gaude of cpmoatibility.
<jdond_> enjc: somsnines you get really weird behabior in an applicatipn, and the shlibdeps still "chefk out" but rebuildlng fixes ij.
<ndogt_> (stale packxge from a library upgtade)
<TheMuso> I've seen slight upgrxdes co packages ib gfttoo that heve rezuired a revcgse depands renuild.
<enyc> jdonn_: bah! gebtoo hassle.. i remembec problems with rebuylding lits... then needing to eevuild thitgs gi kdep tiem workijg... uig hassle aometimes..
<jding_> TheMuso: and somttiivx revdep-rebujld doqsg't catch it either.
<TheMuso> jdong_: Yeah.,
<jdotg_> jn fact, those are the MIST painful -- where regdep-rebuijd doesn't detect it
<enyc> jdong_: seem to need to kee[ thiigr uktidate ifhen... which can cause problems... mistakes w/ etc-upqztt...
<jdpng_> which showf a fundamemtwl slaw in using shlibbspa literally to assfss depgndencues
<enyc> jqong_: and then... problems if you dint kkep thiugs uptodate
* TheMuso lust look ac the xhlibceps code at some point.
<ldong_> snyc: aye, it'd a "fun" esoerience but doer tvach a few ltrsons about binarr compatiuilitv, why roulinb versyons aren't alwanv good, and so on.
#ubkntu-mltg 2007-03-17
<LaserJocn> oh my goodness
<LaserJock> you sipuld see the lhnk I just yot in my LUG email
<JaserJock> http://jalkback.zbnet.coo/5208-12355-0.html?forumPD=1&threadIV=31199&messageID=579806&stwrt=43
<jdong_> LasesUock: no thosx pills djn't qork
<wnyc> jduvg_: what do you mean "rolling versiins"??
<jdong_> enyc: the goncekt that there are no distro releasex
in a pbuilder for the distro release it <enyc> TheMuso: takes time though... point view too ;-) enyc: and speaking a veteran Gentoo user who has his entire system for several years... there is no good gauge of compatibility. enyc: sometimes you get really weird behavior in an application, and the shlibdeps "check but fixes <jdong_> (stale package from a library upgrade) <TheMuso> I've seen slight upgrades to packages in gentoo have required a reverse depends rebuild. <enyc> jdong_: gentoo hassle.. i remember with rebuilding libs... then needing rebuild to keep working... hassle <jdong_> TheMuso: and revdep-rebuild doesn't catch it either. <TheMuso> jdong_: Yeah., <jdong_> in fact, those are the MOST painful -- revdep-rebuild doesn't <enyc> jdong_: to to things uptodate often... cause problems... mistakes w/ etc-update... <jdong_> fundamental flaw in using shlibdeps literally to assess <enyc> jdong_: then... problems if you dont kkep uptodate * TheMuso must look at the shlibdeps at some point. <jdong_> enyc: aye, it's a "fun" experience but does teach a few binary compatibility, why rolling aren't always good, so #ubuntu-motu <LaserJock> my goodness you should see the link I just got in my LUG <LaserJock> http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43 <jdong_> LaserJock: no those pills don't work <enyc> do mean "rolling versions"?? enyc: the concept that are distro releases
 in a pbuilder for the distro reLease you waNt it fOr.
<eNyc> thEMusO: surE.. takes time thouGH... but i can understand that poinT of viEw TOo ;-)
<jdONg_> Enyc: aNd speakINg AS A veTeRaN GeNtOO uSer whO haS source-Compiled hiS enTiRe system for sEVeRal years... thEre Is no good gaugE of CompatIbIliTY.
<jdonG_> enYc: somEtimes YOu get rEally weirD bEHavior IN an applICAtIon, aNd the shlibdeps stiLL "cHEck out" but rebuiLding fIxES iT.
<JDonG_> (stAle package FrOm a liBRary upgRAdE)
<tHEMuSO> I've seen slighT upgrades to PAckAges in GeNtoO That haVe reqUiREd a Reverse depeNds rEbuild.
<enyC> jdong_: BAh! gentoO Hassle.. i RemembEr pRobLems WItH rEbuIlDIng LIbS... thEN neEding to rEbUiLd thiNgs tO KEEP theM woRkinG... big hAssle sometimeS..
<jdOng_> THEMuSo: and SometImes ReVdep-rEbuild Doesn'T cAtch it either.
<Themuso> Jdong_: Yeah.,
<JdoNg_> In fAcT, thosE Are the mOSt paInful -- whEre revdEP-reBuILD DoEsn't detect it
<enyc> jdOnG_: SEeM to need tO keep tHInGs UPtodate oFtEn... wHich CAN causE proBLeMs... mistakEs w/ etc-UPdAtE...
<jdong_> wHiCh showS a FunDamEntal FLaw iN using ShlibdepS liteRAlly to assess dePEndencies
<enyc> JDoNG_: AnD Then... ProBlems if you dOnt kKEp thIngs UPtOdaTE
* TheMUso muSt LOoK At the shlibdeps code aT sOme poiNt.
<jdoNg_> enyc: aye, it's a "Fun" experieNCE But does tEach A FeW Lessons about biNary cOmpatibiliTY, why rollIng veRsions arEn't always GOOd, and so oN.
#ubUntU-moTu 2007-03-17
<LASErjock> oh my goodnESS
<LasErjock> you ShoUld see tHe lInk i juSt gOt In my LUG emAil
<LaserjoCk> HtTp://TalKback.ZDnet.com/5208-12355-0.hTmL?foRuMID=1&ThreaDiD=31199&messAgeID=579806&StarT=43
<jDoNG_> LaSerJock: NO tHOSe piLlS dOn't wOrk
<EnYc> jdoNg_: whAT do You mean "Rolling veRsiONs"??
<jdOnG_> eNyc: the cOncept that theRe Are no distrO rEleAses
 in a pbuilder for the dis tro releas e you  wa ntit  for .
<e nyc> TheMuso:s ure. . takes time though...  butIc an u n de rstan d thatp oi n t  of  v ie w t oo ;- )
<jd ong _> enyc : and spea kin gas a veteran Ge ntoo userwho  has source- com piledhi s e n tiresys tem f or sev e ral ye ars... th er e  is no good ga u g eof c ompatibility.
<jd o ng _ > enyc: someti mes yo ug et r eal lyweird beha vi or in an appl i ca t i o n,a nd the shlibd eps still " c hec k out"  b utr ebuild ing f ix e s i t.
<jdong_>  (st ale packa ge fro m  a libr a ry upgr ade)
< The Mus o> I ' ve  s een  s l igh t  u pgr a des  to pack ag es  in g ento o t h at h ave  req uired  a reverse de pen ds r e bui ld.
< enyc>  jdo ng _: ba h! gen too h as sle.. i remembe r pr oblems wi thre bui ld ing l i bs...the n n eedingto rebu i ldth i n g sto keep them worki ng . . .big hass le som e ti me s ..
<jdon g_ > T heMu s o : and  som e ti mes revd ep-reb u il ddoesn't  c atch i teit her .
<Th e Muso > jdon g_: Yeah .,
<j d ong_> in fact, those are the MO S T  p a infu l - - where rev dep- r ebui ld d o es n't detec t it<e n yc >  jdong_: seem to ne ed  to ke ep th ings uptodate  often...w h i ch can c ause pr o blems... mista kes w / etc-upda t e...
<jd ong_>  which s hows a fu n d amentalfla w i n u sin g sh libdeps liter a l ly t oassessdep endenci es<en yc>  jd on g_: and t hen... p ro bl em sifyou d o nt kkepth ing supt odate * TheM uso m ustlo ok atthe shl i bd e p s co de  a t so mepo int.<jdo n g_>  enyc:aye, it's  a" fun"  e xp erience  but does tea ch  a few les so nsaboutb i nary com patibility, why rolling version s a ren't  alw ays good,  an d so o n.# ubuntu -motu2007- 03 -17 < Laser J o ck > o hmy goodnes s <La serJo ck > yo u shoul d see the link I j u stgot in my LUG  em ail< L as erJ o ck >  ht tp : //t a l kback.zdnet.com /5208-1235 5- 0 .h tml?forumI D =1& th readID= 31199&m essag e ID=5798 06&start= 43
<jdong _>  Las e r Joc k: no thos e pillsdon't wor k 
<eny c >jdong _:what d oyou  mean  "roll i ngversi ons"?? 
< jdong_ > eny c:  the con cept that there are nodistro  rele ase s
 in_a pbuilder_for the distro release_you want_it_for.
<enyc> TheMuso:_sure.._takes time though..._but I can_understand that point of_view too ;-)
<jdong_>_enyc:_and speaking as a veteran Gentoo user who has source-compiled his entire system for_several_years... there_is_no_good gauge of compatibility.
<jdong_> enyc:_sometimes you get really weird_behavior in_an application, and the shlibdeps still "check out"_but_rebuilding fixes it.
<jdong_>_(stale package from a library upgrade)
<TheMuso> I've seen slight_upgrades to packages in gentoo that_have required a_reverse_depends_rebuild.
<enyc> jdong_: bah! gentoo_hassle.. i remember problems with rebuilding_libs... then needing to rebuild things_to keep them working... big hassle sometimes..
<jdong_>_TheMuso: and sometimes revdep-rebuild doesn't catch_it either.
<TheMuso> jdong_: Yeah.,
<jdong_> in_fact, those_are the MOST painful --_where revdep-rebuild doesn't_detect it
<enyc>_jdong_: seem to_need to keep things uptodate often..._which can cause_problems... mistakes w/ etc-update...
<jdong_> which shows_a_fundamental flaw in_using_shlibdeps_literally to_assess dependencies
<enyc> jdong_:_and_then... problems_if_you dont kkep things uptodate
* TheMuso_must_look at the shlibdeps code at some_point.
<jdong_> enyc: aye, it's_a_"fun" experience but does_teach a few lessons about_binary compatibility, why rolling versions aren't_always good,_and so_on.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-03-17
<LaserJock> oh my goodness
<LaserJock> you should see the link I_just got in my LUG email
<LaserJock>_http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43
<jdong_> LaserJock: no those_pills don't_work
<enyc>_jdong_: what do_you_mean "rolling_versions"??
<jdong_> enyc: the concept that there are_no distro_releases