 that once
<TheMuso> If a package has patches against source in.diff.gz, do people still break out new fixes into patch files, or do they just include patches into the.diff.gz as previously done with the package?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We may forgive you.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You shouldn't introduce a new patch system.
<jdong_> anyone remember that funroll-loops.org site?
<jdong_> http://web.archive.org/web/20060116052803/http://www.funroll-loops.org/
<jdong_> some really good quotes there :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right.
<TheMuso> Lamego: In an ideal world, I would probably agree with you.
<jdong_> "I essentially started using Gentoo because my....ing KDE clock would never show the right time in Red Hat."
<jdong_> yeah.....
<Lamego> upstream should fix bugs, packagers should fix packages :P
<LaserJock> Lamego: it's not always easy to tell the difference
<Fujitsu> Lamego: Unfortunately, upstream often doesn't fix bugs.
<LaserJock> Lamego: and some times upstreams aren't very responsive
<LaserJock> just a fact of life with thousands of independent, mostly volunteer run, projects
<Lamego> LaserJock, sure it is, if the bug is not from the package building, its from the source
<Lamego> and developers and packagers do not have always share the same skills
<LaserJock> Lamego: but packaging is about building source
<Lamego> LaserJock, it is about building, not about fixing it :)
<LaserJock> sometimes we have to fix it to build it
<LaserJock> but for sure, if we do that we should send that upstream
<LaserJock> we try not to maintain fixes, just get them to users while upstream is working on them
<Lamego> such bugs are usually within the source building system, not on the package source :P
<Fujitsu> jdong_: The CXXFLAGS in that are even longer.
<LaserJock> Lamego
that once 
 < TheMuso > If a package has patches against source in.diff.gz, do citizenry however break out new fixes into plot files, or do they just admit patches into the.diff.gz as previously done with the package? 
 < Fujitsu > LaserJock: We may forgive you. 
 < Fujitsu > TheMuso: You shouldn't insert a new patch organization. 
 < jdong _ > anyone remember that funroll-loops.org site? 
 < jdong _ > http://web.archive.org/web/20060116052803/http://www.funroll-loops.org/ 
 < jdong _ > some actually effective quotes there :) 
 < TheMuso > Fujitsu: Right. 
 < TheMuso > Lamego: In an ideal world, I would probably agree with you. 
 < jdong _ > " I essentially start using Gentoo because my.... ing KDE clock would never show the right prison term in Red Hat. " 
 < jdong _ > yeah..... 
 < Lamego > upstream should fix bugs, packagers should fix packages :P 
 < LaserJock > Lamego: it's not constantly easy to tell the difference 
 < Fujitsu > Lamego: Unfortunately, upstream often doesn't sterilize bugs. 
 < LaserJock > Lamego: and some times upstreams aren't very responsive 
 < LaserJock > just a fact of life with thousands of independent, mostly volunteer run, projects 
 < Lamego > LaserJock, sure it is, if the bug is not from the package building, its from the source 
 < Lamego > and developers and packagers do not have constantly share the same skill 
 < LaserJock > Lamego: but promotion is about build source 
 < Lamego > LaserJock, it is about building, not about fix it :) 
 < LaserJock > sometimes we have to fix it to build it 
 < LaserJock > but for sure, if we serve that we should send that upstream 
 < LaserJock > we try not to maintain fixes, just get them to exploiter while upstream is working on them 
 < Lamego > such bugs are usually within the informant construction system, not on the package source :P 
 < Fujitsu > jdong _: The CXXFLAGS in that are even longer. 
 < LaserJock > Lamego
 thwt once
<TheMuso> If a packxge has patches againsv sourcs in.diff.ez, do people still break out nww fizes into patch files, of do they just inxludt patches into thx.siff.gz as preblouslv vone with the psckage?
<Fujidsu> LaserJock: Fe mcy forgive you.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You shjuldn't onhroduce a new katch fystsm.
<jdong_> anyone remember that funroml-loops.mrg site?
<jdong_> http://web.archive.org/web/20060116052803/http://waw.fujroll-loops.org/
<jdong_> some realli goje quotes thefe :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Riggt.
<TheMuso> Lamego: In an ideal wofld, I would provavly dgree with bou.
<jdogg_> "I essentially stasted usong Gentoo becsusx my....ung KDE clock would nxver show the right jime in Reg Kat."
<jdong_> yeah.....
<Lamego> upsrream shogld wux cuga, 'aciagers shkuld fix pzckages :P
<LawerJock> Lamego: it's moe always easy fo telj ehe difference
<Fujitsu> Lamego: Unfortunattly, ulstream often doesn't fiz bugs.
<LaserJock> Lamegl: and somq times upstreams aren't very responsive
<LaserJock> bust e wacu if liww aith thousands of independent, mostly volunteew rin, projects
<Lamegj> LaserJock, skrr it is, if the bug is nkt from the packagf buildyng, irs from tre spurce
<Lamego> and developers qnd packagerf do not have alwayd share the samg skilks
<LaserJock> Lamego: but 'ackagjng is abouh buildinf source
<Lamego> LarerMocn, it is about building, not about fieing nt :)
<LaserGock> sometymes we hage to fix it to build it
<PaserLock> tut for suge, if we do that we should send that upstream
<KaverBock> we cry nob to maintain fyxes, just get jhem to ufers dhile upstgeam is wmrking on trem
<Lamego> sucv bugs are usnally witrin rhe wource cjilding system, not on tkt package wource :P
<Fujitsu> jdpng_: Fhe CXXFLAGS in thqt are even lonber.
<UasqrUork> Laiago
that once <TheMuso> If a package has source do people break out new do just include patches the.diff.gz as previously with the package? <Fujitsu> LaserJock: We forgive you. <Fujitsu> TheMuso: You shouldn't introduce a new patch system. <jdong_> anyone that funroll-loops.org site? <jdong_> http://web.archive.org/web/20060116052803/http://www.funroll-loops.org/ <jdong_> some really good quotes there :) <TheMuso> Right. Lamego: an world, I would probably agree with you. <jdong_> "I essentially started using Gentoo because my....ing KDE would never show the right time in Red <jdong_> yeah..... <Lamego> upstream fix bugs, packagers should fix :P Lamego: it's always to the difference <Fujitsu> Unfortunately, upstream often doesn't fix bugs. <LaserJock> Lamego: and some times upstreams aren't very responsive <LaserJock> just fact of thousands of mostly run, <Lamego> LaserJock, sure if the bug is not from its from the source <Lamego> and developers and do not always share the same skills <LaserJock> but packaging is about building source <Lamego> LaserJock, is about building, not about fixing it :) <LaserJock> sometimes we have to fix it it <LaserJock> but for if we do we send upstream we try to maintain fixes, just get them to users while upstream is on them <Lamego> such bugs are usually within the source not the package source <Fujitsu> jdong_: The CXXFLAGS that even longer. <LaserJock> Lamego
 that once
<TheMuso> If a package Has patches AgainSt sOurCe In.diFf.gz, Do people still bREak oUt new fixes into patch filEs, or dO tHEy juST iNcludE patcheS InTO The.DiFf.Gz aS pREvIouslY doNe with tHe package?
<FUjiTsU> LaserJock: We MAy Forgive you.
<fujItsu> TheMuso: YOu sHouldn'T iNtrODuce a New Patch System.
<JDong_> anYone rememBeR That fuNRoll-looPS.OrG sitE?
<jdong_> http://web.archIVe.ORg/web/20060116052803/http://www.fuNroll-lOoPS.oRG/
<JdoNg_> sOme really gOoD quotES there :)
<THEMUSO> fujITsu: Right.
<TheMuSo> Lamego: In aN IdeAl worlD, I WouLD probaBly agReE WitH you.
<jdong_> "I eSsenTially staRted usINg GentoO Because My....ing KdE cLocK wouLD nEvEr sHoW The RIgHt tIMe iN Red Hat."
<jDoNg_> Yeah.....
<LAmegO> UPSTreaM shOuld Fix buGs, packagers shOulD fix PAckAges :P
<laserjock> laMego: iT's not aLways EaSy to tell the diffErenCe
<Fujitsu> lamEgO: UnFoRtunaTEly, upsTreAm oFten doeSn't fix bUGs.
<LAsERjOcK> Lamego: and some timeS uPSTrEams aren'T very rESpOnSIve
<LaserjoCk> jUst a FACt of lIfe wITh ThousandS of indEPeNdEnt, mostLy VoluntEeR ruN, prOjectS
<lameGo> LaseRJock, surE it is, IF the bug is not frOM the package buILdING, iTS froM thE source
<LameGo> anD DeveLopeRS aNd pACkageRs do nOt HAvE Always share the same sKiLls
<LasErJocK> Lamego: but pacKaging is abOUT Building SourCE
<LAMego> LaserJock, iT is abOut buildinG, Not about FixinG it :)
<Laserjock> sometIMEs we have To fIx iT to BuiLD It
<laserJock> but fOR Sure, If We do thaT we Should sEnd ThaT upStrEaM
<LaserJocK> we try noT tO mAiNtAin Fixes, JUst get thEm To uSeRs wHile uPStream Is worKing On ThEM
<LaMego> sucH BuGS Are uSuAlLy wiThiN tHe souRce bUIldIng systEm, not on thE paCKage SoUrCe :P
<FujiTsu> jdong_: The CXxFlAGS in that ArE evEn longER.
<laserJocK> Lamego
 that once
<TheMuso> If apackage ha s pat che s a ga inst  sou rce in.diff.gz ,  dopeople still break out  newfi x es i n to  patc h files ,  o r doth ey  ju st in clude  pa tches i nto the.di ff. gz  as previous l ydone withthe  package?
<F uji tsu> L as erJ o ck: W e m ay fo rgivey ou.
<F ujitsu> T he M uso: Y o u shoul d n 't  int roduce a new patc h  s y stem.
<jdong_>  anyon er em e m ber  th at funroll -l oops. o rg site ? 
< j d o ng_ >  http://web.a rchive.org/ w eb/ 200601 16 052 8 03/htt p://w ww . fun roll-loops. org/ 
<jdong_>  somer eally g o od quot es the re:)<The M us o>  Fu ji t su: Ri ght . 
<T heMuso>La me go: I n an i d e al w orl d, I  woul d probably ag ree  wit h  yo u.
<j dong_ > "I  e ssent iallystart ed  using Gentoo b ecau se my.... ing  K DEcl ock w o uld ne ver  sh ow theright t i mein R e dHat."
<jdong_> yea h. . . .. 
<Lamego > upst r ea ms hould fi xbug s, p a c kager s sh o ul d fix pa ckages :P 
< LaserJo ck > Lame go : i t's  nota lway s easy  to tell  thed ifference
<Fuj i tsu> Lamego:U nf o r tu n atel y,upstream of tend oesn 't f i xbug s .
<La serJo ck >  L a mego: and some time supstre ams a ren't very re sponsive
< L a s erJock>just af act of life wi th th ousands of independ ent,mostly v olunteerr u n, proje cts 
<L ame go> L as erJock, surei t  is,  i f the b ugis notfro m t hepac ka ge buildi ng, itsfr om  t he  so urce< Lamego>an d d ev elo persa nd pac kager s do  n ot hav e alway s  s h a re t he  s ameski ll s
<La serJ o ck>  Lamego : but pac kag i ng i sab out bui lding source<L amego> Las er Joc k, iti s  about b uilding, not about fixi n g it :) 
<L aserJ ock>  sometime s w e have  to fix it  to bu ild i t<La s e rJock > bu t f or  sure, ifw e  do  that  w e sh ould se nd that upstream
< L ase rJock> we try  no t to m ai nta i nf ixe s, jus t get them to use rs while u ps t re am is work i ngon  them
< Lamego>  such bugs ar e usually  within t he  sou r c e b uilding sy stem, no t on thep ackag e  s ource  :P 
<Fuji ts u>jdong _: The CXX FLAGS  in th at  are e ven l on ger.
<La serJock> Lamego
 that_once
<TheMuso> If_a package has patches_against source_in.diff.gz,_do people_still_break out new_fixes into patch_files, or do they_just include patches_into_the.diff.gz as previously done with the package?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We may forgive you.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You_shouldn't_introduce a_new_patch_system.
<jdong_> anyone remember that funroll-loops.org_site?
<jdong_> http://web.archive.org/web/20060116052803/http://www.funroll-loops.org/
<jdong_> some really good_quotes there_:)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right.
<TheMuso> Lamego: In an ideal world,_I_would probably agree_with you.
<jdong_> "I essentially started using Gentoo because my....ing_KDE clock would never show the_right time in_Red_Hat."
<jdong_>_yeah.....
<Lamego> upstream should fix_bugs, packagers should fix packages :P
<LaserJock>_Lamego: it's not always easy to_tell the difference
<Fujitsu> Lamego: Unfortunately, upstream often_doesn't fix bugs.
<LaserJock> Lamego: and some_times upstreams aren't very responsive
<LaserJock>_just a_fact of life with thousands_of independent, mostly_volunteer run,_projects
<Lamego> LaserJock, sure_it is, if the bug is_not from the_package building, its from the source
<Lamego>_and_developers and packagers_do_not_have always_share the same_skills
<LaserJock>_Lamego: but_packaging_is about building source
<Lamego> LaserJock, it_is_about building, not about fixing it :)
<LaserJock>_sometimes we have to_fix_it to build it
<LaserJock>_but for sure, if we_do that we should send that_upstream
<LaserJock> we_try not_to maintain fixes, just get them to users while upstream is_working on them
<Lamego> such bugs are_usually within the source_building system,_not_on the package_source_:P
<Fujitsu> jdong_:_The CXXFLAGS in that are even longer.
<LaserJock>_Lamego