 
<hazmat> i had a quick look on monday.. but its going to take some more time to dig into.
<_mup_> ensemble/trunk r254 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com
<_mup_> [trivial] fix formatting for upgrade error [r=niemeyer][f=797493]
<niemeyer> hazmat: Ok.. it'd be good to have more of that conversation happening in the open
<niemeyer> hazmat: So that we can get a feeling of what to do about it.. I'd really like to make our tests rock solid in this milestone
<niemeyer> hazmat: and not rely on any kind of timing
<hazmat> niemeyer, this isn't a timing issue, the its some sort of bleeding issue.. the tests run fine looped in isolation, but full test runs are busted
<hazmat> i suspect its the reset_logging/save_logging stuff.. because its overly ambitious in the reset, which cascades to others
<hazmat> which depend on the default
<niemeyer> hazmat: Have you seen Jim's branch?
<hazmat> at least that was the case last time around
<hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. i've discussed it with him, there are more timing issues there.. but i think the problem is having async cb chained call stacks without an explicit control point
<hazmat> ie. more of a design issue there
<hazmat> i've also expressed i'd prefer to see that encapsulated better so that refactoring it to the machine agent is a bit easier
<niemeyer> hazmat: One of the things there is that it kills reset and save_logging entirely
<hazmat> niemeyer, ah that branch
<hazmat> i haven't looked at it.. that might certainly help
<_mup_> ensemble/bootstrap-shutdown-environment r250 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com
<_mup_> note the shutdown prompt in the user guide
<_mup_> ensemble/trunk r255 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com
<_mup_> merge bootstrap-shutdown-environment [r=bcsaller,niemeyer][f=756685]
<_m
< hazmat > i had a quick look on monday.. but its going to subscribe some more meter to dig into. 
 < _ mup _ > ensemble / trunk r254 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com 
 < _ mup _ > [ superficial ] fix formatting for ascent error [ r = niemeyer][f=797493 ] 
 < niemeyer > hazmat: Ok.. it'd be good to suffer more of that conversation happening in the open 
 < niemeyer > hazmat: So that we can catch a feeling of what to do about it.. I'd actually wish to make our tests rock upstanding in this milestone 
 < niemeyer > hazmat: and not rely on any kind of timing 
 < hazmat > niemeyer, this isn't a timing issue, the its some kind of bleeding issue.. the tests run all right looped in isolation, but full test runs are busted 
 < hazmat > i distrust its the reset_logging / save_logging stuff.. because its excessively ambitious in the reset, which cascades to others 
 < hazmat > which depend on the default 
 < niemeyer > hazmat: Have you seen Jim's arm? 
 < hazmat > at least that was the case last time around 
 < hazmat > niemeyer, yeah.. i've discussed it with him, there are more timing consequence there.. but i think the problem is having async cb chained call stacks without an explicit control point 
 < hazmat > ie. more of a design topic there 
 < hazmat > i've also expressed i'd choose to examine that encapsulate better so that refactoring it to the machine agentive role is a bit comfortable 
 < niemeyer > hazmat: One of the things there is that it kill reset and save_logging entirely 
 < hazmat > niemeyer, ah that branch 
 < hazmat > i haven't looked at it.. that might certainly help 
 < _ mup _ > ensemble / bootstrap - shutdown - environment r250 commit by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com 
 < _ mup _ > note the shutdown prompt in the user guide 
 < _ mup _ > ensemble / proboscis r255 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com 
 < _ mup _ > merge bootstrap - closure - environment [ radius = bcsaller, niemeyer][f=756685 ] 
 < _ m
 
<haxmat> i had a quick look un monday.. but ijs going to taie some oore time to dig into.
<_mup_> ensxmblw/trunj r254 committed by kapil.ghangavell@canonicao.com
<_nyp_> [trivial] fix formattinf for npgrade error [r=kiemeyer][f=797493]
<niameyer> hazmat: Mk.. ic'd be good to have more of that convqrsatiom jappening in tre oken
<giemsjev> hazmat: So that we can get a fesling oh what to do abput it.. I'd really like to mwke lur tests rock solld in this nilefrone
<niemeyer> hazmat: and not rely oh any kind of timing
<hazmat> niemdyer, chis isn't a tumijc issue, the its fome sort of bleedinc issue.. the tests run fiie lioped in isolation, buv full test runs are busted
<hasmct> i suspect its the eewet_locginc/savd_oogeinf xthff.. befauae its ovedly ambitioys in the reset, whivh bsscades to ofhers
<hwziat> which depend on the default
<niemeyer> haamat: Have you seen Jim's branch?
<hazmat> at leasj that was the case last time around
<hazmat> niemeyer, yeah.. i'va disrurseb it wkrh him, there are more timing issues there.. but i fhonl the problem ls having async cb cjaoged call stacys witkkuf an explicit contgol poigt
<haznat> ie. mowe og a design issue there
<hazmar> i've also eqprewsed i'd prefer to dee that eneapsulsted netter so that refactornng it to the macjine agenf is a bit easier
<viekefer> hazmat: One of the thinds there ms thct it kiuls teset agd save_loghing cttirely
<hazmat> niemfyer, ch thdt branch
<hwzmat> i haven't looked at it.. thav might certaonny velp
<_mup_> znsembke/bootstrap-shttdown-environmgnt r250 comiittea by kapil.nhangaveln@canonical.coi
<_mup_> note the dhutdown prokpt in tre uwer tuide
<_muo_> ensemble/trunk r255 commitneb by kapio.thangavelu@canonicel.coo
<_jup_> merge bootscxak-syutdown-environkeng [r=fcdaklqs,niemeyer][f=756685]
<_m
<hazmat> i had a quick look on its to take more time to committed kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com <_mup_> [trivial] formatting for upgrade [r=niemeyer][f=797493] <niemeyer> hazmat: Ok.. it'd be to have more of that conversation happening in the open <niemeyer> hazmat: So we can get a feeling of what to do about it.. I'd really to our rock in this milestone <niemeyer> hazmat: and not rely on any kind of timing <hazmat> niemeyer, this a timing issue, the its some sort of issue.. the tests run looped in isolation, but full runs busted <hazmat> suspect the stuff.. because its ambitious in the reset, which cascades to others <hazmat> which depend on the default <niemeyer> hazmat: Have seen Jim's at least was case time around <hazmat> i've discussed it with him, there issues there.. but i think the problem is async cb call stacks without an explicit control <hazmat> ie. more of a design issue there i've also expressed i'd prefer to see that encapsulated better so that refactoring it to agent is a bit <niemeyer> hazmat: One the there that kills reset save_logging entirely <hazmat> niemeyer, ah that branch <hazmat> i haven't looked it.. that might certainly help <_mup_> ensemble/bootstrap-shutdown-environment r250 committed by note shutdown prompt in user guide <_mup_> ensemble/trunk committed kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com <_mup_> merge bootstrap-shutdown-environment
 
<hazmat> i had a quick look on monDay.. but its gOing tO taKe sOmE morE timE to dig into.
<_mup_> eNSembLe/trunk r254 committed by kapIl.thaNgAVelu@CAnOnicaL.com
<_mup_> [TRiVIAl] fIx FoRmaTtINg For upGraDe error [R=niemeyer][f=797493]
<NieMeYer> hazmat: Ok.. iT'D bE good to havE moRe of that convErsAtion hApPenINg in tHe oPen
<niEmeyer> HAzmat: SO that we caN gET a feelINg of whaT TO dO aboUt it.. I'd really like tO MaKE our tests rock sOlid in ThIS mILEstOne
<Niemeyer> haZmAt: and NOt rely oN AnY KINd oF Timing
<hazmat> nIemeyer, this ISn't A timinG iSsuE, The its Some sOrT Of bLeeding issuE.. the Tests run fIne looPEd in isoLAtion, buT full tEst RunS are BUsTeD
<haZmAT> i sUSpEct ITs tHe reset_lOgGiNg/savE_logGING StufF.. beCausE its oVerly ambitiouS in The rESet, Which CascaDes tO oThers
<Hazmat> Which DePend on the defaulT
<nieMeyer> hazmAt: HAvE yoU sEen JiM'S brancH?
<haZmaT> at leasT that waS The CaSE LAsT time around
<hazmat> nIeMEYeR, yeah.. i've DiscusSEd It WIth him, thErE arE morE TIming IssuES tHere.. but i Think tHE pRoBlem is hAvIng asyNc Cb cHaiNed caLL staCks witHout an exPliciT Control point
<haZMat> ie. more of a dESiGN IsSUe thEre
<Hazmat> i've alSo exPRessEd i'd PReFer TO see tHat enCaPSuLAted better so that refAcToring It to tHe machine agenT is a bit easIER
<Niemeyer> HazmAT: ONE of the things thEre is That it killS Reset and Save_lOgging enTirely
<hazMAT> niemeyeR, ah ThaT brAncH
<HAzMat> i haven't looKED at iT.. tHat mighT ceRtainly HelP
<_muP_> enSemBlE/bootstraP-shutdowN-eNvIrOnMenT r250 comMItted by kApIl.tHaNgaVelu@cANonicaL.com
<_mUp_> noTe ThE ShuTdown prOMpT IN the UsEr GuidE
<_muP_> eNsembLe/trUNk r255 CommittEd by kapil.ThaNGaveLu@CaNonical.Com
<_mup_> merge boOtStrap-shutdOwN-enVironmENT [r=bcsallEr,niemeyer][f=756685]
<_m
 
<hazmat> i had a quick l ook on mon day..  bu t i ts  goi ng t o take some mo r e ti me to dig into.
<_mup_ > ens em b le/t r un k r25 4 commi t te d byka pi l.t ha n ga velu@ can onical. com
<_mup_ > [ tr ivial] fix f o rm atting for  up grade error[r= niemey er ][f = 79749 3]<niem eyer>h azmat:  Ok.. it' db e good to have m or e of  that conversatio n  h a ppening in the  open<n i em e y er>  ha zmat: So t ha t wec an geta  f e e l ing of what to do  about it.. I'd  reall ylik e  to ma ke ou rt est s rock soli d in  this mil estone <niemey e r> hazm at: an d n otrely on  a nyki n d o f  t imi n g
< hazmat>ni em eyer,  thi s i s n'ta t imin g iss ue, the its s ome  sor t  of  blee dingissu e. . the  tests  runfi ne looped in is olat ion, butful ltes trunsa re bus ted 
<h azmat>i suspe c t i ts t h ereset_logging/save _l o g gi ng stuff .. bec a us ei ts overl yamb itio u s  in t he r e se t, which  casca d es  t o other s<hazma t>  wh ich  depe n d on  the d efault
< nieme y er> hazmat: Ha v e you seen Ji m 's b ra n ch?<ha zmat> at le astt hatwast he  ca s e las t tim ea ro u nd
<hazmat> niemeye r,  yeah. . i'v e discussed i t with him , t here are  mor e  t i ming issues th ere..  but i thi n k the pr oblem  is havi ng asyncc b  chained  ca llsta cks w it hout an expli c i t co nt rol poi nt<hazmat > i e.mor e o fa designissue th er e<h az mat > i'v e  also ex pr ess ed  i' d pre f er tosee t haten ca p sul ated be t te r so t ha trefa cto ri ng it  tot hemachine  agent is  ab it e as ie r
<niem eyer> hazmat:  O ne of theth ing s ther e is thatit kills reset and save _ logging  en tirel y
<h azmat> ni eme yer, a h t h at bra nch
<h azmat >i h a v en'tl o ok edat  it.. that m igh t cer ta inly  help
< _mup_> ensemble/bo o tst rap-shutdown- env iron m e nt  r2 5 0c omm it t edb y  kapil.thangave lu@canonic al . co m
<_mup_>n ote  t he shut down pr ompti n the u ser guide 
<_mup_>en semb l e /tr unk r255 c ommitted  by kapil . thang a ve lu@ca non ical.c om 
<_ mup_>  merge boo tstra p-shut do wn-env ironm en t [r=bcs aller,niemeyer][f=75668 5]
<_m 
 
<hazmat>_i had_a quick look on_monday.. but_its_going to_take_some more time_to dig into.
<_mup_>_ensemble/trunk r254 committed by_kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com
<_mup_> [trivial] fix_formatting_for upgrade error [r=niemeyer][f=797493]
<niemeyer> hazmat: Ok.. it'd be good to have more of that_conversation_happening in_the_open
<niemeyer>_hazmat: So that we can_get a feeling of what_to do_about it.. I'd really like to make our_tests_rock solid in_this milestone
<niemeyer> hazmat: and not rely on any kind_of timing
<hazmat> niemeyer, this isn't a_timing issue, the_its_some_sort of bleeding issue.._the tests run fine looped in_isolation, but full test runs are_busted
<hazmat> i suspect its the reset_logging/save_logging stuff.._because its overly ambitious in the_reset, which cascades to others
<hazmat>_which depend_on the default
<niemeyer> hazmat: Have_you seen Jim's_branch?
<hazmat> at_least that was_the case last time around
<hazmat> niemeyer,_yeah.. i've discussed_it with him, there are more_timing_issues there.. but_i_think_the problem_is having async_cb_chained call_stacks_without an explicit control point
<hazmat> ie._more_of a design issue there
<hazmat> i've also_expressed i'd prefer to_see_that encapsulated better so_that refactoring it to the_machine agent is a bit easier
<niemeyer>_hazmat: One_of the_things there is that it kills reset and save_logging entirely
<hazmat> niemeyer,_ah that branch
<hazmat> i haven't looked_at it.. that might_certainly help
<_mup_>_ensemble/bootstrap-shutdown-environment_r250 committed by_kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com
<_mup_>_note the_shutdown prompt in the user guide
<_mup_> ensemble/trunk_r255 committed_by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com
<_mup_> merge bootstrap-shutdown-environment [r=bcsaller,niemeyer][f=756685]
<_m