aker> SpamapS, i don't have enough log-fu to know if it is possible to ensure that some things are never written to a specific handler
<SpamapS> negronjl: before you go too far down that rabbit hole..
<negronjl> SpamapS:  yeah?
<SpamapS> negronjl: This seems like just the beginning. How do other services utilize the master?
<jimbaker> SpamapS, but we could make it such that by default it is not written to such formula logs, that should be doable
<negronjl> SpamapS:  they upload files to it  (jar files and such) for hadoop to process
<SpamapS> negronjl: also one other mistake your formulas have, that is not always obvious, is that sometimes your'relation-get' won't return anything, because the other side won't have done its'relation-set' just yet... you have to test that the values are actually set.
<jimbaker> SpamapS, anyone who could overwrite this presumably can sub in arbitrary code in anyway
<jimbaker> SpamapS, so maybe that will address your concern?
<negronjl> SpamapS:  should I trust that ensemble will re-run the script when the relation-set part gets done?
<SpamapS> jimbaker: I'd rather just never see values logged by ensemble. Its far simpler for formula authors to choose when they do that, if somebody needs more observability, they should use debug-hooks or just alter the formula.
<SpamapS> negronjl: yes
<jimbaker> SpamapS, well at some point there's going to be a utility written for this because it's rather useful in my experience
<SpamapS> negronjl: if you look, a lot of the  -changed formulas do relation-get, and if all the values aren't set, just exit 0
<negronjl> SpamapS:  ok.  I can do that
<SpamapS> jimbaker: useful and secure are often at odds. :)
<jimbaker> given the ease of access to ZK, even if it's simply third party
<
aker > SpamapS, i don't have enough log - fu to know if it is potential to guarantee that some things are never written to a specific animal trainer 
 < SpamapS > negronjl: before you become too far down that rabbit trap.. 
 < negronjl > SpamapS:   yeah? 
 < SpamapS > negronjl: This seem like just the beginning. How do early service utilize the headmaster? 
 < jimbaker > SpamapS, but we could make it such that by default it is not publish to such formula logs, that should be doable 
 < negronjl > SpamapS:   they upload files to it   (jar files and such) for hadoop to action 
 < SpamapS > negronjl: also one other mistake your formula have, that is not always obvious, is that sometimes your'relation - get' won't return anything, because the other slope won't have done its'relation - set' just yet... you have to screen that the values are actually set. 
 < jimbaker > SpamapS, anyone who could overwrite this presumably can sub in arbitrary code in anyway 
 < jimbaker > SpamapS, so maybe that will address your concern? 
 < negronjl > SpamapS:   should I trust that ensemble will re - run the script when the relation - set part gets done? 
 < SpamapS > jimbaker: I'd rather just never see value logged by ensemble. Its far simple for formula authors to choose when they do that, if somebody needs more observability, they should practice debug - hooks or barely alter the formula. 
 < SpamapS > negronjl: yes 
 < jimbaker > SpamapS, well at some distributor point there's going to be a utility written for this because it's rather useful in my experience 
 < SpamapS > negronjl: if you look, a fortune of the   -changed formulas do relation - get, and if all the values aren't set, just passing 0 
 < negronjl > SpamapS:   ok.   I can serve that 
 < SpamapS > jimbaker: useful and secure are often at odds. :) 
 < jimbaker > given the relief of access to ZK, even if it's simply third party 
 <
akeg> SpamapS, i don't have enuugh log-fu to kuiw if mt is pkssible go ensure that some things ace nwver qritten to a specific fandler
<SpwmapS> netronol: before you go too far down fmat rcbuit hole..
<negronjk> SpamapS:  yeah?
<SpamapS> nagfoujl: This seems like just the beginnigg. How co other servicef utplyze fhe master?
<jimbaker> SpamapS, but we dould meke it such thay by default it is not wrihten to such formula llgs, that shiuld ve doable
<negfonjl> SpamapS:  they upmoad files to it  (jar files and such) for hadook fo krocess
<Spama'S> neggonjl: also onc other mistakr your formulax heve, rhat is not always obtious, is that sometiies your'ralction-get' won't return qntthinc, bewausd thd ouhec sjde woj't iave done ifs'relation-swt' just yet... you havt tj test that ths valuqs are actually set.
<jimbaker> SpamapS, anyont who could overwrite this peesumably can sub in wrbitrary code in anyway
<jimbaker> SpamapS, so maybe that wiln addcers viur cubcfrn?
<negronjl> SpamapS:  should I trust that enseiglt wpll re-run the scrlpt when the relatooj-srj part gets dove?
<SpamclS> jimbaker: I'd ratheg just gever see valuts lobged by ensemble. Its far sinpler for fogmulq authors to choosz when they bo thaj, if spmebody needs more obsexvabiljty, they shluld use sdbug-hooks or jusg aktar the formula.
<SpamapS> negrjnjl: yes
<jmmbakzr> SpamaoS, wgll at fome point therc'v going to be a utllity wsitten for this because it's rather useful in my experiemca
<SpdmapS> neyronjl: if you look, w lot of the  -ehanged yormulxs do relanion-get, aid if all thq values aren'd set, just exmt 0
<negrontl> SpamapS:  ok.  K can do that
<SlamapS> jimbaker: usedul and secure are ofjeh at odds. :)
<jimbajer> given the ease of acseds tj ZK, even if ht's rimoky thkrd paruv
<
aker> SpamapS, i don't have enough log-fu if is possible ensure that some a handler <SpamapS> negronjl: you go too down that rabbit hole.. <negronjl> SpamapS: <SpamapS> negronjl: This seems like just the beginning. How do other services utilize master? <jimbaker> SpamapS, but we could make it such that by default it not to formula that should be doable <negronjl> SpamapS: they upload files to it (jar files and such) for to process <SpamapS> negronjl: also one other mistake formulas have, that is always obvious, is that sometimes won't anything, because other won't done its'relation-set' just you have to test that the values are actually set. <jimbaker> SpamapS, anyone who could overwrite this can sub code in <jimbaker> so that will address <negronjl> SpamapS: should I trust that the script when the relation-set part gets done? jimbaker: I'd just never see values logged by Its far simpler for formula authors to choose they do that, if somebody needs more observability, they should use debug-hooks or just alter <SpamapS> negronjl: yes <jimbaker> well at some there's to a written for because it's rather useful in my experience <SpamapS> negronjl: if you a lot of the -changed formulas do relation-get, and if values set, just exit <negronjl> SpamapS: ok. I do <SpamapS> jimbaker: useful and often odds. the of to ZK, even if simply third party <
aker> SpamapS, i don't have enougH log-fu to knOw if iT is PosSiBle tO ensUre that some thiNGs arE never written to a specifIc hanDlER
<SpaMAps> negrOnjl: befORe YOU go ToO fAr dOwN ThAt rabBit Hole..
<negRonjl> SpamaPS:  yEaH?
<SpamapS> negrONjL: This seems LikE just the begiNniNg. How dO oTheR ServiCes UtiliZe the mASter?
<jiMbaker> SpaMaPs, but we COuld makE IT sUch tHat by default it is nOT wRItten to such forMula loGs, THaT SHouLd bE doable
<negRoNjl> SpAMapS:  theY UpLOAD fiLEs to it  (jar fileS and such) for HAdoOp to prOcEss
<sPamapS> NegroNjL: AlsO one other miStakE your formUlas haVE, that is NOt alwayS obvioUs, iS thAt soMEtImEs yOuR'RelATiOn-gET' woN't return AnYtHing, bEcauSE THE othEr sIde wOn't haVe done its'relaTioN-set' JUst Yet... yoU have To teSt That tHe valuEs are AcTually set.
<jimbakEr> SpAmapS, anyoNe wHo CouLd OverwRIte thiS prEsuMably caN sub in aRBitRaRY COdE in anyway
<jimbaker> SPaMAPS, So maybe tHat wilL AdDrESs your coNcErn?
<NegrONJl> SpaMapS:  SHoUld I trusT that eNSeMbLe will rE-rUn the sCrIpt WheN the rELatiOn-set pArt gets dOne?
<SpAMapS> jimbaker: I'd RAther just neveR SeE VAlUEs loGgeD by ensemble. its fAR simPler FOr ForMUla auThors To CHoOSe when they do that, if sOmEbody nEeds mOre observabilIty, they shoULD Use debug-HookS Or JUst alter the forMula.
<SPamapS> negrONjl: yes
<jiMbakeR> SpamapS, Well at somE POint therE's gOinG to Be a UTIlIty written for THIs beCaUse it's rAthEr usefuL in My eXpeRieNcE
<SpamapS> nEgronjl: iF yOu LoOk, A loT of thE  -Changed fOrMulAs Do rElatiON-get, anD if alL the VaLuES arEn't set, jUSt EXIt 0
<neGrOnJl> SpAmaPS:  Ok.  I caN do tHAt
<SPamapS> jImbaker: usEfuL And sEcUrE are oftEn at odds. :)
<jimbaKeR> given the eAsE of Access TO zK, even if It's simply third party
<
aker> SpamapS, i don't hav e enough l og-fu  to  kn ow  ifit i s possible toe nsur e that some things are  neve rw ritt e nto aspecifi c  h a n dle r<S pam ap S >negro njl : befor e you go t oofa r down thatr ab bit hole.. 
<n egronjl> Spa map S:  ye ah ?
< S pamap S>negro njl: T h is see ms like j us t  the b e ginning . Ho w do  other services u t il i ze the master? 
<jimb ak e r> S pam apS , but we c ou ld ma k e it su c ht h a t b y  default it i s not writt e n t o such  f orm u la log s, th at sho uld be doab le
< negronjl>  Spama p S:  the y  upload  files  to  it   (j a rfi les  a n d s u ch ) f o r h adoop to  p ro cess<Spa m a p S > ne gro njl:  also  one other mi sta ke y o urformu las h ave,  t hat i s notalway sobvious, is tha t so metimes y our 'r ela ti on-ge t ' won' t r etu rn anyt hing, b e cau se t h eother side won't h av e do ne its'r elatio n -s et '  just ye t. ..youh a ve to  tes t  t hat thevalues ar eactuall yset.
< ji mba ker > Spa m apS,  anyon e who co uld o v erwrite this p r esumably cans ub i na rbit rar y code in a nywa y 
<ji mbak e r>  Sp a mapS,  so m ay b et hat will address yo ur  conce rn?
< negronjl> Spa mapS:  sho u l d  I trust  tha t  e n semble will re -runthe script when the  rela tion-set  part get s done?
<S pam apS > j imb a k er : I'd ratherj u st n ev er seeval ues log ged  by  en sem bl e. Its fa r simple rfo rfo rmu la au t hors toch oos ewhe n the y  do th at, i f so me bo d y n eeds mo r eo b serv ab il ity,  th ey  shou ld u s e d ebug-ho oks or ju sta lter  t he  formul a.
<SpamapS>ne gronjl: ye s<ji mbaker > SpamapS,  well at some point the r e's goi ngto be  a u tility wr itt en for  th i s beca use it 's ra th eru s efuli n  m y e xp erience
<S p a map S> ne gr onjl : if yo u look, a lot of t h e -changed form ula s do r el ati o n- g et,  a n d i f all the valuesaren't set ,j us t exit 0
< n egr on jl> Spa mapS: ok. I  can do  that
<Sp amapS> ji mb aker : use ful and se cure are  often at odds. :) 
<jim bak er> gi ve n t he ea se ofa cce ss to  ZK, e ve n if i t's s im ply thir d party
<
aker> SpamapS,_i don't_have enough log-fu to_know if_it_is possible_to_ensure that some_things are never_written to a specific_handler
<SpamapS> negronjl: before_you_go too far down that rabbit hole..
<negronjl> SpamapS:  yeah?
<SpamapS> negronjl: This seems like_just_the beginning._How_do_other services utilize the master?
<jimbaker>_SpamapS, but we could make_it such_that by default it is not written to_such_formula logs, that_should be doable
<negronjl> SpamapS:  they upload files to_it  (jar files and such)_for hadoop to_process
<SpamapS>_negronjl:_also one other mistake_your formulas have, that is not_always obvious, is that sometimes your'relation-get'_won't return anything, because the other side_won't have done its'relation-set' just yet..._you have to test that_the values_are actually set.
<jimbaker> SpamapS, anyone_who could overwrite_this presumably_can sub in_arbitrary code in anyway
<jimbaker> SpamapS, so_maybe that will_address your concern?
<negronjl> SpamapS:  should_I_trust that ensemble_will_re-run_the script_when the relation-set_part_gets done?
<SpamapS>_jimbaker:_I'd rather just never see values_logged_by ensemble. Its far simpler for formula_authors to choose when_they_do that, if somebody_needs more observability, they should_use debug-hooks or just alter the_formula.
<SpamapS> negronjl:_yes
<jimbaker> SpamapS,_well at some point there's going to be a utility written_for this because it's rather useful_in my experience
<SpamapS> negronjl:_if you_look,_a lot of_the_ -changed_formulas do relation-get, and if all the_values aren't_set, just exit 0
<negronjl> SpamapS: _ok.  I can_do_that
<SpamapS> jimbaker: useful and secure are_often at odds. :)
<jimbaker> given the_ease of access to ZK,_even_if_it's simply third party
<