 ScottK: we can bypass MOTU, but i think it's important that we get this straight for future
<imbrandon> whoa, sorry just steped back in, umm it only takes them sending an email to the MC and 3 ppl saying "yes"? i dont feel that is hard, much easier then when i went infront of the TB for MOTU and again for Core-Dev
<ScottK> Personally, I think this approach has long term social risks for Universe and I would encourage you to step back and make sure you've conciously accepted the risk.
<ScottK> IMO getting into Universe is easy enough for anyone that makes an effort.
<sabdfl> i would agree, but i've seen several cases where upstreams have felt disenfranchised
<Lutin> imbrandon: not quite sure about that
<sabdfl> they feel there's a tight group here that all know each other, and that to be effective here they have to "crack the nod"
<sabdfl> we trust these guys deeply anyway - we ship their code!
<imbrandon> sabdfl, no offence, but did you see how much me and ajmitch and crimsun and others had to whip the beryl packages into shape for them even in their svn, even small things like versioning conflicts, lupine_85, Amaranth, and a few others on the team already work closely with some of us, i would be happy to mentor them into the week long process of becomming a full MOTU but i'm not at all for side stepping the process 
<Amaranth> whoa whoa, don't include me in there :)
<geser> sabdfl: I confess that a upstream can get a good packager but only after a time. I've doubt he will be a good packager from the beginning (if he hadn't done packages in some inofficial repo)
<sabdfl> folks, we need to accept that something failed
<imbrandon> Amaranth, you did back in the day ( UDS timefremae )
<sabdfl> six months ago we wanted beryl in ubuntu
<sabdfl> now, there are good packages, but they are not in ubuntu?
<Amaranth> imbrandon: yeah, never really
ScottK: we can bypass MOTU, but i think it's important that we get this straight for future 
 < imbrandon > whoa, good-for-nothing barely steped back in, umm it only takes them send an email to the MC and 3 ppl saying " yes "? i do nt palpate that is intemperate, much easy then when i went infront of the TB for MOTU and again for Core - Dev 
 < ScottK > Personally, I think this overture has long condition social risks for Universe and I would encourage you to step back and make sure you've conciously accept the risk. 
 < ScottK > IMO getting into Universe is easy enough for anyone that name an effort. 
 < sabdfl > i would agree, but i've seen several casing where upstreams have felt disenfranchised 
 < Lutin > imbrandon: not quite sure about that 
 < sabdfl > they feel there's a tight group here that all acknowledge each other, and that to be effective here they have to " crack the nod " 
 < sabdfl > we trust these guys deeply anyway - we ship their code! 
 < imbrandon > sabdfl, no offence, but did you see how much me and ajmitch and crimsun and others had to whip the beryl packages into shape for them even in their svn, even small things like versioning conflicts, lupine_85, Amaranth, and a few others on the team already exploit closely with some of us, i would be happy to mentor them into the workweek retentive summons of becomming a full MOTU but i'm not at all for slope stepping the process 
 < Amaranth > whoa whoa, don't include me in there :) 
 < geser > sabdfl: I confess that a upstream can beget a good packager but only after a time. I've doubt he will be a good packager from the beginning (if he hadn't done packages in some inofficial repo) 
 < sabdfl > tribe, we need to accept that something failed 
 < imbrandon > Amaranth, you did back in the day (UDS timefremae) 
 < sabdfl > six months ago we want beryl in ubuntu 
 < sabdfl > now, there are good packages, but they are not in ubuntu? 
 < Amaranth > imbrandon: yeah, never really
 SclttK: we can bypass MOTU, nut i think it's nnportait that we get ghis straight for future
<imbrendob> whoq, sorry just steped bazk in, umm it only takts them sending ai email bj ths MC cnv 3 ppl saying "ygs"? i dont feal that is harg, oueh easier then when i went infront os the TN vor MOTU and adain sor Dore-Dev
<ScottK> Personally, I think tgis appgoach has long tetm social risks for Univerde ajd I would encourahe you to sjsp fqck and make sure you'vt eonciously zccepted the risk.
<ScottK> IMO getging nnto Univerwe is gasy enough hor anjone that makcx an exfort.
<sandfl> i would anree, uut u've seen several casev where upstreams rave felt dnsenfranchised
<Lutin> inbeandot: nod qukre rurt auouf that
<dabvfl> they fesl there's a tight group here tnae all know eacg othew, wnd that to be effective here they have to "crack the nod"
<sabdfl> we trust these guys deekly anyway - we ship their code!
<imbrandon> sabdfl, no offence, bgt div hou sce huq luch me and ajmitch and crimsun and others haq tp ehip the beryl packages imtl xrape for them even nh fheir svn, even smapl thinds lije versioging conflicts, lupine_85, Amaranth, qnd a few otkerw on the team alrecdy work clorely with some of us, i would be kappy fo mentor tjem into ffe week long prozesx mf becomming a full MOTU btt i'm not at cll for ride steppyng the prlcess 
<Amaranth> whoa whoa, don't itclude me ln there :)
<geser> sabdfl: I confess that a upstresm cat get a yood psckager but ogly after a tike. I've boubt fe will be a good packager fwom the begintlng (if he havn't done [ackqges in somd inofficial relo)
<sabdfl> yjlks, we need to accept thxf something faioed
<umbrandon> Amaramth, yot fiv bach in the day ( UDS tiorfremxe )
<sabdfl> slx oontns ago we wanted berfl ih ubuntu
<sabdfl> now, tmere are tood pachages, but theu are not in ubuntk?
<Amarenth> iobrancon: yeah, never really
ScottK: we can bypass MOTU, but i important we get straight for future back umm it only them sending an to the MC and 3 ppl "yes"? i dont feel that is hard, much easier then when i went of the TB for MOTU and again for Core-Dev <ScottK> Personally, I think approach long social for Universe and I would encourage you to step back and make sure you've conciously accepted risk. <ScottK> IMO getting into Universe is easy for anyone that makes effort. <sabdfl> i would agree, i've several cases upstreams felt <Lutin> imbrandon: not sure about that <sabdfl> they feel there's a tight group here that all know each other, and to be they have "crack nod" we trust these anyway - we ship their code! offence, but did you see how much me ajmitch and and others had to whip the packages into shape for them even in their even small things like versioning conflicts, lupine_85, Amaranth, and a few others on the team closely with some of i would be to them the long process becomming a full MOTU but i'm not at all for side the process <Amaranth> whoa whoa, don't include me in there sabdfl: confess that a can get a good but after a time. I've will a the (if hadn't done packages in inofficial repo) <sabdfl> folks, we to accept that something back in the day ( UDS timefremae ) six months ago we wanted beryl in <sabdfl> now, there are good packages, but they are not in ubuntu? imbrandon: yeah,
 ScottK: we can bypass MOTU, but i Think it's imPortaNt tHat We Get tHis sTraight for futuRE
<imbRandon> whoa, sorry just stePed baCk IN, umm IT oNly taKes them SEnDINg aN eMaIl tO tHE Mc and 3 pPl sAying "yeS"? i dont feel ThaT iS hard, much easIEr Then when i wEnt Infront of the tB fOr MOTU AnD agAIn for corE-Dev
<SCottK> PERsonalLy, I think tHiS ApproaCH has lonG TErM socIal risks for UniverSE aND I would encouraGe you tO sTEp BACk aNd mAke sure you'Ve ConciOUsly accEPtED THe rISk.
<ScottK> IMO geTting into UnIVerSe is eaSy EnoUGh for aNyone ThAT maKes an effort.
<SabdFl> i would aGree, buT I've seen SEveral cAses whEre UpsTreaMS hAvE feLt DIseNFrAncHIseD
<Lutin> imBrAnDon: noT quiTE SURe abOut That
<SabdfL> they feel therE's a TighT GroUp herE that All kNoW each Other, aNd thaT tO be effective herE theY have to "crAck ThE noD"
<sAbdfl> WE trust TheSe gUys deepLy anywaY - We sHiP THEiR code!
<imbrandon> sabdFl, NO OfFence, but Did you SEe HoW Much me anD aJmiTch aND CrimsUn anD OtHers had tO whip tHE bErYl packaGeS into sHaPe fOr tHem evEN in tHeir svN, even smaLl thiNGs like versioniNG conflicts, lupINe_85, aMArANth, aNd a Few others on The tEAm alReadY WoRk cLOsely With sOmE Of US, i would be happy to menToR them iNto thE week long procEss of becomMING a full MOtU buT I'm NOt at all for side SteppIng the procESs 
<AmaranTh> whoA whoa, don'T include mE IN there :)
<geSer> SabDfl: i coNFEsS that a upstreaM CAn geT a Good pacKagEr but onLy aFteR a tIme. i'vE doubt he wIll be a goOd PaCkAgEr fRom thE BeginninG (iF he HaDn't Done pACkages In somE inoFfIcIAl rEpo)
<sabdFL> fOLKs, we NeEd To acCepT tHat soMethINg fAiled
<imBrandon> AmAraNTh, yoU dId Back in tHe day ( UDS timefReMae )
<sabdfl> sIx MonThs ago WE Wanted beRyl in ubuntu
<sabdfl> now, theRE are gooD paCkageS, but They are noT in Ubuntu?
<amaRAnth> imBrandoN: yeah, NeVer REAlly
 ScottK: we can bypass MOT U, but i t hinkit' s i mp orta nt t hat we get thi s  str aight for future
<imbr andon >w hoa, so rry j ust ste p ed b ack  i n,  um mi tonlytak es them  sending a n e ma il to the MC an d 3 ppl sa yin g "yes"? i d ont  feelth ati s har d,mucheasier then w hen i wen ti nfront of theT B  f or M OTU and again for Co r e-Dev
<ScottK>  Perso na l ly , I t hin k this app ro ach h a s longt er m s oci a l risks for U niverse and I w ould e nc our a ge you  to s te p  ba ck and make  sur e you'veconcio u sly acc e pted th e risk .
< Sco ttK> IM Oget ti n g i n to  Un i ver se is ea sy  e nough  for a n y onetha t ma kes a n effort.
<sa bdf l> i wou ld ag ree,buti' ve se en sev eralca ses where upstr eams  have fel t d is enf ra nchis e d
<Lut in>  im brandon : not q u ite  s u r e  a bout that
<sabdfl>  t h e yfeel the re's a ti gh t  group h er e t hata l l kno w ea c hother, a nd tha t  t obe effe ct ive he re  th eyhavet o "c rack t he nod"<sabd f l> we trust th e se guys deepl y  a n y wa y  - w e s hip their c ode! <imb rand o n>  sa b dfl,no of fe n ce ,  but did you see ho wmuch m e and  ajmitch andcrimsun an d o thers ha d to wh i p the beryl pa ckage s into sha p e for th em ev en in th eir svn,e v en small  th ing s l ike v er sioning confl i c ts,lu pine_85 , A maranth , a nda f ewot hers on t he teamal re ad ywor k clo s ely with  s ome  o f u s, iw ould b e hap py t ome n tor  them i n to t he w ee klong  pr oc ess o f be c omm ing a f ull MOTUbut i'mno tat allfor side step pi ng the pro ce ss
<Amar a n th> whoa  whoa, don't include me in ther e : )
<ge ser>  sabdfl:I c onfess  th a t a up stream  cange t a g ood p a c ka ger  b ut only af t e r a  time .I've  doubthe will be a goodp ack ager from the  be ginn i n g(if he had n' t  do n e  packages in so me inoffic ia l  r epo)
<sabd f l>fo lks, we  need t o acc e pt that  somethin g failed<i mbra n d on>  Amaranth,  you did  back int he da y  (  UDStim efrema e)
< sabdf l> six mon ths a go wewa nted b erylin  ubuntu<sabdfl> now, there are  goodpacka ges , but the y a r e n ot in ubu ntu? 
<Amaranth > i mbr andon : y e ah, n ever re all y 
 ScottK:_we can_bypass MOTU, but i_think it's_important_that we_get_this straight for_future
<imbrandon> whoa, sorry_just steped back in,_umm it only_takes_them sending an email to the MC and 3 ppl saying "yes"? i dont_feel_that is_hard,_much_easier then when i went_infront of the TB for_MOTU and_again for Core-Dev
<ScottK> Personally, I think this approach_has_long term social_risks for Universe and I would encourage you to_step back and make sure you've_conciously accepted the_risk.
<ScottK>_IMO_getting into Universe is_easy enough for anyone that makes_an effort.
<sabdfl> i would agree, but_i've seen several cases where upstreams have_felt disenfranchised
<Lutin> imbrandon: not quite sure_about that
<sabdfl> they feel there's_a tight_group here that all know_each other, and_that to_be effective here_they have to "crack the nod"
<sabdfl>_we trust these_guys deeply anyway - we ship_their_code!
<imbrandon> sabdfl, no_offence,_but_did you_see how much_me_and ajmitch_and_crimsun and others had to whip_the_beryl packages into shape for them even_in their svn, even_small_things like versioning conflicts,_lupine_85, Amaranth, and a few_others on the team already work_closely with_some of_us, i would be happy to mentor them into the week_long process of becomming a full_MOTU but i'm not_at all_for_side stepping the_process_
<Amaranth> whoa_whoa, don't include me in there :)
<geser>_sabdfl: I_confess that a upstream can get_a good packager but_only_after a time. I've doubt he_will be a good packager from_the beginning (if he hadn't_done_packages_in some inofficial repo)
<sabdfl> folks,_we need to accept that something_failed
<imbrandon> Amaranth, you_did back in the day ( UDS_timefremae_)
<sabdfl> six months ago we wanted_beryl_in ubuntu
<sabdfl> now, there are good_packages,_but_they are not in ubuntu?
<Amaranth>_imbrandon: yeah, never really