fl> you have to create a place where magic can happen
<sabdfl> and that's what i think universe is
<sabdfl> now, i'm proposing we look beyond that
<ajmitch> and we also have to have a place where quality is maintained
<sabdfl> ajmitch: yes, i was never suggesting that a shoddy package from an upstream should "just get uploaded"
<sabdfl> there are two scenarios
<ajmitch> we often have to try & balance getting the latest crack in compared to what it may break
<Toadstool> sabdfl: are you somehow implying that we have set too high quality standards for universe?
<sabdfl>  (1) the upstream doesn't have a package, so they need to develop one
<ajmitch> or what meager resources should be allocated to
<sabdfl> in this case, the initial versions can't obviously just be uploaded
<sabdfl> this is where beryl started, right?
<sabdfl> but we should have *a space* for them
<sabdfl> like -experimental
<sabdfl> or a MOTU PPA
<sistpoty> actually it looks like we've gotten more "professional" for universe in recent times... if I compare breezy release (trying to fix bugs e.g. with new upstream versions until the latest days) and universe now with all its rules, a little bit of the magic seemed to have vanished
<Lure> sabdfl: +1 on need for -experimental, but is universi it?
<sabdfl> so they stay here, in this forum, listening and learning and fixing issues
<sabdfl> Lure: no, universe itself is not it
<sabdfl> but the MOTU *community* is it
<LaserJock> ok
<sabdfl> over time, those packages mature, and asap they go into universe
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody is opposed to PPA or an -experimental
<LaserJock> but right now those are vaporware for us practically
<Lure> LaserJock: exactly, it would help kde4 and similar projects 
<LaserJock> so we do
fl > you have to create a place where magic can find 
 < sabdfl > and that's what i remember universe is 
 < sabdfl > now, i'm aim we front beyond that 
 < ajmitch > and we also have to hold a place where quality is uphold 
 < sabdfl > ajmitch: yes, i was never suggesting that a shoddy software from an upstream should " just get uploaded " 
 < sabdfl > there are two scenarios 
 < ajmitch > we frequently have to try & balance getting the latest gap in compared to what it may break 
 < Toadstool > sabdfl: are you somehow implying that we have fix too high quality standards for population? 
 < sabdfl >   (1) the upstream doesn't have a software, so they need to develop one 
 < ajmitch > or what meager resources should be allocated to 
 < sabdfl > in this lawsuit, the initial versions can't obviously just be uploaded 
 < sabdfl > this is where beryl started, right? 
 < sabdfl > but we should accept * a space * for them 
 < sabdfl > like -experimental 
 < sabdfl > or a MOTU PPA 
 < sistpoty > actually it looks like we've gotten more " professional " for universe in recent times... if I compare breezy release (trying to fix bug e.g. with new upstream adaptation until the former days) and universe now with all its dominion, a little bit of the magic seemed to have vanish 
 < Lure > sabdfl: +1 on need for -experimental, but is universi it? 
 < sabdfl > so they stay here, in this forum, listening and determine and fixing issues 
 < sabdfl > Lure: no, universe itself is not it 
 < sabdfl > but the MOTU * residential district * is it 
 < LaserJock > ok 
 < sabdfl > over time, those package mature, and asap they go into universe 
 < LaserJock > I don't think anybody is opposed to PPA or an -experimental 
 < LaserJock > but right nowadays those are vaporware for us practically 
 < Lure > LaserJock: exactly, it would avail kde4 and similar projects 
 < LaserJock > so we do
fl> jou have to create a plage where magic ccb happxn
<sabdfm> and thxt's what i think universe is
<davdfl> bow, i'm proposing we louk beyond that
<ajmutch> qnd we also have to have w plccx where quality is maintahned
<sabdfl> ajmhtzh: yes, i was never suggesting that a fhoddy lafkage from an opstrtam shohld "just get uploaded"
<sabdfl> there zre two scenarios
<ajmotch> we often have to try & balwnce getting the lwtest crack in simpared to wfat it may break
<Toadstkol> sabdfl: are you somehow implhing chat we havg aeh too high qnality standards for univesse?
<sabdgl>  (1) the upstrcam dmesb't have a package, so vhey need to develop one
<ajmitwh> or what meager rwsiurcev shmuld ve xllkcetes to
<sahdfm> in this dase, the inutial versions can't ofnoously just ge upljaqed
<sabdfl> this is where beryl started, rpght?
<aabdfl> but we should hace *a space* for them
<sahdfl> like -experimental
<sabdfl> or a MOTU PPA
<sistpoty> actuallf it muokw jkje we've gotten more "professional" for universe ig rtcekt times... if I coipare breezu gekgase (trying to fix bbfs e.g. with new upstrfam verfions until tht latrst days) and universe now wuth all its gulew, a little bit of che magic sezmed tp havr vanished
<Lure> sabdfl: +1 un nsed for -expfrimental, cut is universi kt?
<ssbgfl> so they stay here, in tris forum, liscening avd lgarning and fixinh issmas
<sabdfl> Lure: no, ujiverde itself is not it
<sabdfl> but the MOTU *commniity* is it
<LasgrJmck> ok
<sabdfj> ovev time, those paskages mature, cnd asap they go into uhiverse
<NaserJock> I don't think atibody is oppoved to P[A oe an -experiodntal
<LaserJock> but righn uow those are vaporware for us lractically
<Lure> LawerJock: exactly, it wotlf ielp hge4 and simildr pfojdvts 
<LxserJock> so de dp
fl> you have to create a place can <sabdfl> and what i think proposing look beyond that and we also to have a place where quality maintained <sabdfl> ajmitch: yes, i was never suggesting that a shoddy package from upstream should "just get uploaded" <sabdfl> there are two scenarios <ajmitch> we often to & getting latest crack in compared to what it may break <Toadstool> sabdfl: are you somehow implying that have set too high quality standards for universe? (1) the upstream doesn't a package, so they need develop <ajmitch> or meager should allocated to <sabdfl> this case, the initial versions can't obviously just be uploaded <sabdfl> this is where beryl started, right? but we *a space* them like <sabdfl> or a <sistpoty> actually it looks like we've for universe in recent times... if I compare release (trying fix bugs e.g. with new upstream until the latest days) and universe now with its rules, a little bit of the magic seemed to have vanished <Lure> sabdfl: +1 for -experimental, but is it? <sabdfl> so stay in forum, and learning fixing issues <sabdfl> Lure: no, universe itself is not it <sabdfl> the MOTU *community* is it <LaserJock> ok <sabdfl> over time, mature, asap they go universe <LaserJock> I don't anybody opposed to PPA or <LaserJock> right vaporware us <Lure> LaserJock: exactly, it help kde4 and similar projects so we do
fl> you have to create a place whEre magic caN happEn
<sAbdFl> And tHat's What i think univERse iS
<sabdfl> now, i'm proposing wE look BeYOnd tHAt
<AjmitCh> and we ALsO HAve To HaVe a PlACe Where QuaLity is mAintained
<sAbdFl> Ajmitch: yes, i wAS nEver suggesTinG that a shoddy PacKage frOm An uPStreaM shOuld "jUst get UPloadeD"
<sabdfl> thErE Are two SCenarioS
<AJmItch> We often have to try & bALaNCe getting the laTest crAcK In COMpaRed To what it maY bReak
<TOAdstool> SAbDFL: Are YOu somehow implYing that we hAVe sEt too hIgH quALity stAndarDs FOr uNiverse?
<sabdFl>  (1) thE upstream Doesn't HAve a pacKAge, so thEy need To dEveLop oNE
<aJmItcH> oR WhaT MeAgeR ResOurces shOuLd Be allOcatED TO
<SabdFl> iN thiS case, The initial verSioNs caN'T obViousLy jusT be uPlOaded
<Sabdfl> This iS wHere beryl starteD, rigHt?
<sabdfl> bUt wE sHouLd Have *a SPace* foR thEm
<sAbdfl> liKe -experIMenTaL
<SABdFl> or a MOTU PPA
<sistpoTy> ACTuAlly it loOks likE We'Ve GOtten morE "pRofEssiONAl" for UnivERsE in recenT times... IF I CoMpare brEeZy releAsE (trYinG to fiX Bugs E.g. with New upstrEam veRSions until the lATest days) and unIVeRSE nOW witH alL its rules, a lIttlE Bit oF the MAgIc sEEmed tO have VaNIsHEd
<Lure> sabdfl: +1 on need fOr -ExperiMentaL, but is universI it?
<sabdfl> sO THEy stay heRe, in THiS Forum, listening And leArning and fIXing issuEs
<sabDfl> Lure: nO, universe ITSelf is noT it
<SabDfl> But THE MoTU *community* iS IT
<LasErjock> ok
<sAbdFl> over tIme, ThoSe pAckAgEs mature, aNd asap thEy Go InTo UniVerse
<lAserJock> i dOn't ThInk AnyboDY is oppOsed tO PPA Or An -EXpeRimentaL
<laSERJocK> bUt RighT noW tHose aRe vaPOrwAre for uS practicaLly
<lUre> LAsErjock: exaCtly, it would heLp Kde4 and simiLaR prOjects 
<lASerJock> sO we do
fl> you have to create a p lace where  magi c c anha ppen 
<sa bdfl> and that ' s wh at i think universe is 
<sab df l > no w ,i'm p roposin g  w e loo kbe yon dt ha t
<aj mit ch> and  we also h ave  t o have a pla c ewhere qual ity  is maintain ed<sabdf l>  aj m itch:  ye s, iwas ne v er sug gesting t ha t  a sho d dy pack a g efrom  an upstream shou l d" just get uploa ded"
< sa b df l >  th ere  are two s ce nario s 
<ajmit c h> w e  of t en have to tr y & balance get ting t he  la t est cr ack i nc omp ared to wha t it  may brea k
<Toa d stool>s abdfl:are yo u s ome howi mp ly ing  t h atw ehav e  se t too hi gh  q ualit y st a n d a rdsfor  uni verse ?
<sabdfl>  ( 1)theu pst reamdoesn 't h av e a p ackage , soth ey need to deve lopone
<ajmi tch >orwh at me a ger re sou rce s shoul d be al l oca te d t o<sabdfl> in this c as e ,  t he initi al ver s io ns can't ob vi ous ly j u s t beuplo a de d
<sabdf l> thi s  i swhere b er yl sta rt ed,  ri ght?< sabd fl> bu t we sho uld h a ve *a space* f o r them
<sabdf l >l i ke -exp eri mental
<sab dfl> or a  MOT U  P PA< sistp oty>ac t ua l ly it looks like we 'v e gott en mo re "professio nal" for u n i v erse inrece n tt imes... if I c ompar e breezy r e lease (t rying  to fixbugs e.g. w ith newups tre amver s i on s until the l a t estda ys) and  un iversenow  wi thall  i ts rules,  a littl ebi tof  th e mag i c seemed  t o h av e v anish e d
<Lur e> sa bdfl :+1 onneed fo r  - e x peri me nt al,but  i s uni vers i  it ?
<sabd fl> so th eys tayhe re , in th is forum, lis te ning and l ea rni ng and f ixing is sues
<sabdfl> Lure: no, univers e i tself  isnot it
<s abd fl> bu t t h e MOTU  *comm unity *isi t 
<Las e r Jo ck>  o k
<sabdfl> o ver  time ,thos e packa ges mature, and as a p t hey go into u niv erse < La ser J oc k > I  d o n't t hink anybody is  opposed t oP PA  or an -ex p eri me ntal
<L aserJoc k> bu t  rightnow those  are vapo rw aref o r u s practica lly
<Lur e> LaserJ o ck: e x ac tly,itwouldhe lpkde4and si m ila r pro jects
< LaserJ ock>so  we do
fl> you_have to_create a place where_magic can_happen
<sabdfl>_and that's_what_i think universe_is
<sabdfl> now, i'm_proposing we look beyond_that
<ajmitch> and we_also_have to have a place where quality is maintained
<sabdfl> ajmitch: yes, i was never_suggesting_that a_shoddy_package_from an upstream should "just_get uploaded"
<sabdfl> there are two_scenarios
<ajmitch> we_often have to try & balance getting the_latest_crack in compared_to what it may break
<Toadstool> sabdfl: are you somehow_implying that we have set too_high quality standards_for_universe?
<sabdfl>_ (1) the upstream_doesn't have a package, so they_need to develop one
<ajmitch> or what_meager resources should be allocated to
<sabdfl> in_this case, the initial versions can't_obviously just be uploaded
<sabdfl> this_is where_beryl started, right?
<sabdfl> but we_should have *a_space* for_them
<sabdfl> like -experimental
<sabdfl>_or a MOTU PPA
<sistpoty> actually it_looks like we've_gotten more "professional" for universe in_recent_times... if I_compare_breezy_release (trying_to fix bugs_e.g._with new_upstream_versions until the latest days) and_universe_now with all its rules, a little_bit of the magic_seemed_to have vanished
<Lure> sabdfl:_+1 on need for -experimental,_but is universi it?
<sabdfl> so they_stay here,_in this_forum, listening and learning and fixing issues
<sabdfl> Lure: no, universe itself_is not it
<sabdfl> but the MOTU_*community* is it
<LaserJock> ok
<sabdfl>_over time,_those_packages mature, and_asap_they go_into universe
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody is_opposed to_PPA or an -experimental
<LaserJock> but right_now those are vaporware_for_us practically
<Lure> LaserJock: exactly, it would_help kde4 and similar projects 
<LaserJock>_so we do