 the early 1980s has become reduced to a stereotype that is based upon a handful of writers – writers that I'm not willing to dismiss because I think they have very cogent things to say about sexuality. So that the position really has been identified with say Andrea Dworkin and then Catherine MacKinnon when neither one of them, interestingly enough, writes openly as a lesbian, neither is really writing about lesbianism. Their critique is heterosexuality and male-dominated heterosexuality and yet they have become the whipping girls of the new pro-sex feminist and lesbian and gay and queer politics of the 90s. It seems to me that the victimization model was only one model and that it was always countered 16 Cary Nelson, Paula A. Treichler, and Lawrence Grossberg, eds. "Cultural Studies: An Introduction." by a notion of lesbian sexuality as liberatory and a celebration of the erotic, but an attempt to understand sexuality and eroticism outside of heterosexual or male constructs. Whether they were successful or not seems to me to be very unimportant because we are involved in an ongoing process of raising questions, coming up with answers, rethinking them, defining them, dismissing them, going on to something new. So I would say in answer to your question, that the idea that lesbians were not concerned with women's sexual agency and sex-positive politics in the 80s is a distortion in a certain sense. It may be true that by the early 80s some of the complexity of lesbian thought and writing in the 1970s had been squeezed into narrower channels, but I think that there was always more depth to writing about lesbian sexuality than is implied by these current theorists who just seem to ignore their history – to not have read it, to just not know what they are talking about half the time. I think that lesbianism has been reduced to sexuality in current queer writing and to the elimination of virtually all other issues and that strikes me as a great impoverishment. You know that I am interested in concepts of nationalism and how they intersect with Lesbian Nation and Queer Nation, so I'll preface my next question in the following way. Nelson et al. refer to "the development of new forms of imperialism, [linked to]... the reemergence of nationalism".5 above 16 Berman, conversely, refers to a revolutionary coalition amongst groups deemed to be innocent of imperialist crime [which] implied a system of defining people by their historic grievances, the grievances
the early 1980s has become reduced to a stereotype that is based upon a handful of writers – writer that I'm not uncoerced to dismiss because I think they get very cogent thing to say about sexuality. indeed that the situation really has been identify with say Andrea Dworkin and then Catherine MacKinnon when neither one of them, interestingly enough, writes openly as a lesbian, neither is really publish about lesbianism. Their critique is heterosexuality and male - dominated heterosexuality and yet they have become the whipping girls of the new pro - sex feminist and lesbian and cheery and queer politics of the 90s. It seems to me that the exploitation model was only one exemplar and that it was always counter 16 Cary Nelson, Paula A. Treichler, and Lawrence Grossberg, eds. " Cultural Studies: An Introduction. " by a notion of lesbian sexuality as liberatory and a celebration of the erotic, but an attempt to understand sex and eroticism outside of heterosexual or male constructs. Whether they were successful or not seems to me to be very unimportant because we are involved in an ongoing process of raise questions, coming up with answers, rethinking them, defining them, dismissing them, going on to something new. So I would say in solution to your doubt, that the idea that lesbian were not refer with women's sexual agency and sexual activity - positive politics in the eighty is a distortion in a certain sense. It may be genuine that by the early 80s some of the complexity of lesbian thought and writing in the 1970s had been squeezed into narrower channels, but I think that there was always more depth to write about lesbian sex than is imply by these current theorists who just seem to ignore their history – to not have read it, to just not know what they are speak about half the time. I think that lesbianism has been reduced to sexuality in current fagot writing and to the elimination of virtually all other issues and that strikes me as a great poverty. You know that I am concerned in concepts of nationalism and how they intersect with Lesbian Nation and Queer Nation, so I'll preface my next motion in the following way. Nelson et al. refer to " the development of new form of imperialism, [ linked to ]... the reemergence of nationalism".5 above 16 Berman, conversely, refers to a revolutionary coalition amongst groups deemed to be innocent of imperialist crime [ which ] implied a arrangement of defining people by their historic grudge, the grievances
 thf early 1980s has become redmced to a stereojype thav is baaed upon a handful of writers – writecs tyat I'n not willing to dismirs becausv I think theb have very cogeif things to szn abobt sexuality. So jhat the poshtion really hds bzen identified with say Andrea Dworkyn and yhfn Catherine MwcKimgon shen neither one of them, interestihgly enmugh, writes olenly as a lesbian, neither is geally writing abokt lesbianiwm. Trwir critique is heterosexuality ans male-dominated heterosexuality and vet they hace befmme the whi'ping dirls of the new pro-vex femonist and lesblan aid gqy and queer politics of the 90s. It seems to me thdt the victimizatiob nodel was onlh ond mkdxl znd thwt mt was alwags counteree 16 Cary Nelson, Pauls W. Treichler, ans Lawrqnse Grossberg, eds. "Cultural Studies: An Inurodudtion." by a notion of lewbian sexuality as liheratory wnd a celebration of the erotic, but an attempt to undecsganb sexuxoihy and eroticism outside of heterosexual or mwme cpnstructs. Whetmer they were succrsdfij or not seemr to mz tk be very unimportwnt becwuse qe are indolvrd in an ongoing process of raising quefrions, coming up wich answers, rzthinkong tnem, defining them, dismirsinf them, goinh on to skoething new. So I wolld vay in answer to your queseion, that the idea tfat kesbiags were noh congarned with women's dexuap dgency and sex-positive politics in the 80s mx a distortipn in a certann senxe. It may be erue that by tke early 80s sooe of the bomplexitb of lesbian thought and ftiting in the 1970s had bqen wquewzed ingu narrower chamnels, but I think tyat there was alwans mote depth to writiuy qbout lesbian srxuxliey tian if implied by dhesd cjtrent theorists chu juxt seem to ignore thair gistory – to not hafe read it, to just not know whay they are talking abouv half the yimg. I think that lesbianism has bsen reducfd bo sexuality yn cmrregt queer wxiting and to the elimination of virtualoy all other issugs and that strikes mg ax a great ikpovewishment. Fou know that I am ibterested in conctpts of nationalism and how tvey ijtersect with Lesbian Nation and Queer Nation, so I'll preface my next quesrion ii ehe followihg wsy. Nensju et al. refxr to "the developmvnt of new forms of imperialism, [uinked tm]... che reemergence of nationalisk".5 xbove 16 Berman, conversely, refers to a devolutipnary coalition amongst groups ceemed to be innocent of imperiaoist drime [whici] implied a system og defiuing pwople bt thcir historic gfiefakces, the ggievenczs
the early 1980s has become reduced to that based upon handful of writers willing dismiss because I they have very things to say about sexuality. So the position really has been identified with say Andrea Dworkin and then Catherine when neither one of them, interestingly enough, writes openly as a lesbian, neither really about Their is heterosexuality and male-dominated heterosexuality and yet they have become the whipping girls of the new feminist and lesbian and gay and queer politics the 90s. It seems me that the victimization model only model and it always 16 Cary Nelson, A. Treichler, and Lawrence Grossberg, eds. "Cultural Studies: An Introduction." by a notion of lesbian sexuality as and a the erotic, an to sexuality and eroticism heterosexual or male constructs. Whether they not seems to me to be very unimportant we are in an ongoing process of raising coming up with answers, rethinking them, defining them, them, going on to something new. So I would say in answer to your question, idea that lesbians were concerned with women's agency sex-positive in 80s is distortion in a certain sense. It may be true that by early 80s some of the complexity of lesbian thought and the had been squeezed narrower channels, but I that was always more depth about sexuality by current who just seem to their history – to not read it, to just talking about half the time. I think that has been reduced to sexuality in current writing and to the elimination of virtually all other issues and that me as impoverishment. You know that I am interested in of nationalism and how intersect with Lesbian Nation and Queer Nation, so I'll my question in following way. Nelson al. refer to development of new imperialism, [linked the of Berman, conversely, refers to a revolutionary amongst deemed to be innocent of crime a system of defining people by their historic grievances, the grievances
 the early 1980s has become reduced To a stereotYpe thAt iS baSeD upoN a haNdful of writers – WRiteRs that I'm not willing to diSmiss BeCAuse i ThInk thEy have vERy COGenT tHiNgs To SAy About SexUality. SO that the poSitIoN really has beEN iDentified wIth Say Andrea DwoRkiN and thEn catHErine mackinnoN when nEIther oNe of them, iNtERestinGLy enougH, WRiTes oPenly as a lesbian, neIThER is really writiNg abouT lESbIANisM. ThEir critiquE iS heteROsexualITy AND MalE-Dominated heteRosexuality ANd yEt they HaVe bECome thE whipPiNG giRls of the new Pro-sEx feminisT and leSBian and GAy and quEer polItiCs oF the 90S. it SeEms To ME thAT tHe vICtiMization MoDeL was oNly oNE MODel aNd tHat iT was aLways countereD 16 CaRy NeLSon, paula a. TreiChleR, aNd LawRence GRossbErG, eds. "Cultural StuDies: an IntroduCtiOn." By a NoTion oF LesbiaN seXuaLity as lIberatoRY anD a CELEbRation of the erotic, bUt AN AtTempt to uNderstANd SeXUality anD eRotIcisM OUtsidE of hETeRosexual Or male COnStRucts. WhEtHer theY wEre SucCessfUL or nOt seemS to me to bE very UNimportant becaUSe we are involvED iN AN oNGoinG prOcess of raisIng qUEstiOns, cOMiNg uP With aNswerS, rEThINking them, defining thEm, DismisSing tHem, going on to sOmething neW. sO i would saY in aNSwER to your questioN, that The idea thaT Lesbians Were nOt concerNed with woMEN's sexual AgeNcy And Sex-POSiTive politics iN THe 80s iS a DistortIon In a certAin SenSe. IT maY bE true that By the earLy 80S sOmE oF thE compLExity of lEsBiaN tHouGht anD WritinG in thE 1970s haD bEeN SquEezed inTO nARRoweR cHaNnelS, buT I Think That THerE was alwAys more dePth TO wriTiNg About leSbian sexualitY tHan is impliEd By tHese cuRREnt theorIsts who just seem to ignore THeir hisTorY – to noT havE read it, to JusT not knOw wHAt they Are talKing aBoUt hALF the tIME. I ThiNk That lesbiaNISm hAs beeN rEducEd to sexUality in current queER wrIting and to the EliMinaTIOn Of vIRtUAllY aLL otHER issues and that sTrikes me as A gREaT impoverisHMenT. YOu know tHat I am iNtereSTed in coNcepts of nAtionalisM aNd hoW THey Intersect wIth LesbiAn Nation aND QueeR naTion, sO I'lL prefaCe My nExt quEstion IN thE follOwing wAy. nelson Et al. rEfEr to "the dEvelopment of new forms of iMperiaLism, [lInkEd to]... the reEmeRGenCe of natioNaliSm".5 above 16 BerMan, ConVerseLy, rEFers tO a reVOlUtiONary cOaliTIon amongsT GrOupS DEeMed to be innoCENT of ImperIalISt crimE [whiCh] implied a system oF Defining people By thEIR hiStoRIc grIeVances, the grievAncEs
 the early 1980s has becom e reducedto aste reo ty pe t hatis based upona  han dful of writers – writ ers t ha t  I'm no t wil ling to di s m iss  b ec aus eI  t hinkthe y havevery cogen t t hi ngs to say a b ou t sexualit y.So that thepos itionre all y  hasbee n ide ntifie d  withsay Andre aD workin and the n Ca ther ine MacKinnon whe n  n e ither one of t hem, i nt e re s t ing lyenough, wr it es op e nly asa  l e s b ian ,  neither is r eally writi n g a bout l es bia n ism. T heircr i tiq ue is heter osex uality an d male - dominat e d heter osexua lit y a nd y e tth eyha v e b e co met hewhipping  g ir ls of  the n e w  pro -se x fe minis t and lesbian  an d ga y  an d que er po liti cs  of t he 90s . Itse ems to me thatthevictimiza tio nmod el  waso nly on e m ode l and t hat itw asal w a y scountered 16 CaryNe l s on , PaulaA. Tre i ch le r , and La wr enc e Gr o s sberg , ed s ."Cultura l Stud i es :An Intr od uction ."  by  anotio n  oflesbia n sexual ity a s  liberatory an d  a celebratio n  o f th e  ero tic , but an at temp t  tounde r st and sexua lityan d  e r oticism outside ofhe terose xualor male const ructs. Whe t h e r they w eres uc c essful or notseems  to me tob e very u nimpo rtant be cause wea r e involv edinanong o i ng  process of r a i sing  q uestion s,comingupwit h a nsw er s, rethin king the m,  d ef in ing  them ,  dismiss in g t he m,going on tosomet hing  n ew .  So  I woul d  s a y  inan sw er t o y ou r que stio n , t hat the  idea tha t l e sbia ns  w ere not  concerned wi th  women's s ex ual  agenc y and sex- positive politics in th e  80s is  adisto rtio n in a ce rta in sen se. It may  be tr ue th at  by t he ea r l y80s  s ome of the c omp lexit yof l esbianthought and writin g  in  the 1970s ha d b eens q ue eze d  i n tona r row e r  channels, butI think th at th ere was al w ays  m ore dep th to w ritin g  aboutlesbian s exualityth an i s imp lied by th ese curr ent theor i sts w h ojustsee m to i gn ore  thei r hist o ry– tonot ha ve  readit, t ojust not  know what they are tal king a bouthal f the tim e.I  th ink thatlesb ianism has  be enreduc edt o sex uali t yinc urren t qu e er writin g  a ndt o  t he eliminat i o n  of  virt ual l y allothe r issues and that strikes me asa gr e a t i mpo v eris hm ent. You knowtha tI am inter es ted in conc epts ofna t ional ism an d howthey in t e rs e ct wit h Le sbi an Nation  an dQ ueer Na ti on ,  so I' ll p re face m y next ques t i on in the follow ing w a y . Nel s onet al .refer t o  "th e developm ent of newformsof i mperi alism,[l inkedto] .. . the reem e rgence of  nati onalism ". 5 ab ove  16 Be rman , conve rsel y,  re fers to a r ev o lu ti o nar y co aliti on  amo ngst grou p s deemed  to be inno ce nto f  imper i al i s t crime [w hic h] im p l ied a syst e m of de f ining  peopl e by t heir hi s tor ic  grieva nce s ,  the grie vances
 the_early 1980s_has become reduced to_a stereotype_that_is based_upon_a handful of_writers – writers_that I'm not willing_to dismiss because_I_think they have very cogent things to say about sexuality. So that the position_really_has been_identified_with_say Andrea Dworkin and then_Catherine MacKinnon when neither one_of them,_interestingly enough, writes openly as a lesbian, neither_is_really writing about_lesbianism. Their critique is heterosexuality and male-dominated heterosexuality and_yet they have become the whipping_girls of the_new_pro-sex_feminist and lesbian and_gay and queer politics of the_90s. It seems to me that_the victimization model was only one model_and that it was always countered_16 Cary Nelson, Paula A._Treichler, and_Lawrence Grossberg, eds. "Cultural Studies:_An Introduction." by_a notion_of lesbian sexuality_as liberatory and a celebration of_the erotic, but_an attempt to understand sexuality and_eroticism_outside of heterosexual_or_male_constructs. Whether_they were successful_or_not seems_to_me to be very unimportant because_we_are involved in an ongoing process of_raising questions, coming up_with_answers, rethinking them, defining_them, dismissing them, going on_to something new. So I would_say in_answer to_your question, that the idea that lesbians were not concerned with_women's sexual agency and sex-positive politics_in the 80s is_a distortion_in_a certain sense._It_may be_true that by the early 80s some_of the_complexity of lesbian thought and writing_in the 1970s had_been_squeezed into narrower channels, but I_think that there was always more_depth to writing about lesbian_sexuality_than_is implied by these current_theorists who just seem to ignore_their history –_to not have read it, to just_not_know what they are talking about_half_the time. I think that lesbianism_has_been_reduced to sexuality in current_queer writing and to the elimination_of virtually all other issues and that strikes me_as a great_impoverishment. You know that I_am_interested_in concepts of nationalism and how they intersect with Lesbian_Nation and_Queer Nation, so_I'll preface my next question in the following way. Nelson_et al. refer to "the development of_new forms of imperialism, [linked to]... the reemergence of nationalism".5 above_16 Berman, conversely, refers to a revolutionary coalition_amongst groups deemed to be innocent of_imperialist crime [which] implied_a_system of defining people by their historic_grievances,_the_grievances