 that if I don't know that person, I don't have any connection to that person, then I don't care what they have to say and why am I going to let it bother me. So I think that that particular thing helped me... Even the confessionals, even though they were very intense, you do feel kind of good getting them off your chest, it's just that the punishment afterward is... You know in the Catholic church, you don't get punishment, you just do penance, you just say your prayers and it's a private thing...

PG

I would say the church is punishment, but go ahead.

DB

But the sins that you confess, you know the overts and the withholds they become public, Scientologists love gossip.... that part, that humiliation and stuff is bad. But I think that the confession part of it is good. It's nice to get stuff off your chest.

PG

Yeah, just not so good when it's used against you.

DB

Exactly.

PG

Or feel like it's being held over your head.

DB

Exactly.

PG

Have you ever met David Miscaviage?

DB

No, I've never met him in person. I've been very close to him, in proximity, but he doesn't usually interact with the low people and I was one of them, so, I never got to talk to him.

PG

Who was the highest ranking member that you interacted with?

DB

His name is Guillaume Lesevre I think he's French, he's the Executive Director International he's called. He's... I don't know exactly how that position works, but he's just very high up there. He came down to, when I worked at the Advanced Organization in LA, they deliver the OT levels, I was in the basement scanning central files, I was doing that whole thing. They have several different filing systems, this one called Central Files is where they keep correspondence within the organization, letters going back and forth, nothing private or anything like that. So I scan these things into a computer, they've been trying to make all their files electronic for some time. So I was scanning all those and he came down to check out the process, I kind of walked him through it. That was an interesting interaction for me, I mean I was very nervous because he
that if I don't know that person, I don't have any connection to that person, then I don't care what they get to suppose and why am I going to let it bother me. then I think that that particular matter helped me... Even the confessionals, even though they were very intense, you do find kind of good getting them off your chest of drawers, it's just that the punishment afterward is... You acknowledge in the Catholic church, you don't get punishment, you just do penance, you merely say your prayers and it's a private matter... 

 PG 

 I would say the church is punishment, but run low ahead. 

 DB 

 But the sin that you confess, you sleep together the overts and the withholds they become public, Scientologists love gossip.... that part, that chagrin and stuff is bad. But I think that the confession part of it is good. It's nice to beget stuff off your chest. 

 PG 

 Yeah, just not so good when it's used against you. 

 DB 

 Exactly. 

 PG 

 Or feel like it's being held over your head. 

 DB 

 precisely. 

 PG 

 Have you ever met David Miscaviage? 

 DB 

 nobelium, I've never meet him in person. I've been very cheeseparing to him, in proximity, but he doesn't usually interact with the low people and I was one of them, so, I never got to talk to him. 

 PG 

 Who was the highest ranking extremity that you interacted with? 

 DB 

 His name is Guillaume Lesevre I think he's French, he's the Executive Director International he's called. He's... I don't know exactly how that position work, but he's just very high up there. He came down to, when I worked at the Advanced Organization in LA, they rescue the OT level, I was in the basement scanning central files, I was doing that whole matter. They have several different filing systems, this one called Central Files is where they keep correspondence within the organization, letters go back and forth, nothing secret or anything like that. So I scan these thing into a computer, they've been try on to make all their file electronic for some time. indeed I was scanning all those and he came down to check out the process, I kind of walked him through it. That was an interesting interaction for me, I entail I was very nervous because he
 thwt if I don't know that ptrson, I don't have any coinectioh to thag person, then I don't care whet tyey hqve to say and why am K going tl let it botier me. So I think that tmct padbiculcr thing helped ke... Even tha confessionalv, dvzn though they were very intense, you do feek nind of good ggttinb thej off your chest, it's just that the punishkent afterwarc is... You know in the Cathopic fhurch, you don't geh punishmenj, yot just do penxnce, you jlvt say yout prayers and it's a private thine...

PG

I could say tye chktch is punisiment, fut go ahead.

DB

But tha sins yhat you confexs, bou jnow the overts and tie withholds they besome publhc, Scientologists livw gosvip.... dhat parg, tgav hhmiliahioi and stuff is bad. But I think that the cpnsvxsion part or it if dood. It's nice to get stuff off your chevt.

PF

Yeah, just not so good qhen it's used against you.

DB

Exastly.

PG

Or feel like it's being held over your head.

DT

Exacvlh.

PG

Kqve yuy fver met David Miscaviage?

DB

No, I've never met hyj on person. I've becn very close to hom, im proximity, buj he dozan'f usually interact with tre loq people wnd O was one of them, so, I nevee got to talh to him.

PG

Who was tke highest rcnking membrr that you interacted cith?

DB

Gis name is Guillaums Lesevre I think he'x Xrench, ht'r the Executive Dyrector Iiternctional fe's valled. He's... I don'h know exactly how that oositnon wmrks, but hf's just very high up there. He ceke down to, wnet I worked ct the Advanced Orgwnization in LC, they dzliver the OT lenels, I wav in the bafement scannith central fines, I waf doung rhat whuue thing. They nave sevegaj didferent filing sysbems, jhjs one called Czuttql Files is whrre thqy kxep cjsrespondence witfin yhe ofganizaunon, uettrrs going back and fmrth, nothing private ot wnything like thwt. So I scan yhese things into w com'uter, vhey've begn trying to make all their filss electrlnig for some tiie. Si I was scanuing all those and he came down to check out the process, I kind of walked him uhrough it. Thet was an interasting interaction fir me, I mean I wax very nervous becauss he
that if I don't know that person, have connection to person, then I to and why am going to let bother me. So I think that particular thing helped me... Even the confessionals, even though they were very intense, do feel kind of good getting them off your chest, it's just that punishment is... know the Catholic church, you don't get punishment, you just do penance, you just say your prayers it's a private thing... PG I would say church is punishment, but ahead. DB But the sins you you know overts the they become public, love gossip.... that part, that humiliation and stuff is bad. But I think that the confession part it is nice to stuff your PG Yeah, just good when it's used against you. Or feel like it's being held over your DB Exactly. Have you ever met David Miscaviage? No, I've never met him in person. I've very close to him, in proximity, but he doesn't usually interact with the low people was one of them, I never got talk him. Who the highest member that you interacted with? DB His name is Guillaume Lesevre think he's French, he's the Executive Director International he's called. don't exactly how that works, but he's just high there. He came down I at in they the OT levels, I in the basement scanning central I was doing that different filing systems, this one called Central Files where they keep correspondence within the organization, going back and forth, nothing private or anything like that. So I these things computer, they've been trying to make all their electronic for some time. I was scanning all those and he came down check the process, kind of walked through it. That an interesting interaction I mean was nervous
 that if I don't know that person, i don't have aNy conNecTioN tO thaT perSon, then I don't caRE whaT they have to say and why am i goinG tO Let iT BoTher mE. So I thiNK tHAT thAt PaRtiCuLAr Thing HelPed me... EvEn the confeSsiOnAls, even thougH ThEy were very IntEnse, you do feeL kiNd of goOd GetTIng thEm oFf youR chest, IT's just That the puNiSHment aFTerward IS... yoU knoW in the Catholic chuRCh, YOu don't get punisHment, yOu JUsT DO peNanCe, you just sAy Your pRAyers anD It'S A PRivATe thing...

PG

I wouLd say the chuRCh iS punisHmEnt, BUt go ahEad.

DB

buT The Sins that you ConfEss, you knoW the ovERts and tHE withhoLds theY beComE pubLIc, scIenToLOgiSTs LovE GosSip.... that pArT, tHat huMiliATION and StuFf is Bad. BuT I think that thE coNfesSIon Part oF it is Good. it'S nice To get sTuff oFf Your chest.

PG

Yeah, Just Not so good WheN iT's uSeD agaiNSt you.

Db

ExActLy.

PG

Or fEel like IT's bEiNG HElD over your head.

DB

ExaCtLY.

pG

have you eVer met dAvId mIscaviagE?

Db

No, i've nEVEr met Him iN PeRson. I've bEen verY ClOsE to him, iN pRoximiTy, But He dOesn't USualLy inteRact with The loW People and I was oNE of them, so, I nevER gOT To TAlk tO hiM.

PG

Who was thE higHEst rAnkiNG mEmbER that You inTeRAcTEd with?

DB

His name is GuIlLaume LEsevrE I think he's FreNch, he's the EXECUtive DirEctoR inTErnational he's cAlled. he's... I don't knOW exactly How thAt positiOn works, buT HE's just veRy hIgh Up tHerE. hE cAme down to, when i WOrkeD aT the AdvAncEd OrganIzaTioN in lA, tHeY deliver tHe OT leveLs, i wAs In The BasemENt scanniNg CenTrAl fIles, I WAs doinG that WholE tHiNG. ThEy have sEVeRAL difFeReNt fiLinG sYstemS, thiS One Called CEntral FilEs iS WherE tHeY keep coRrespondence wItHin the orgaNiZatIon, letTERs going bAck and forth, nothing privaTE or anytHinG like That. so I scan thEse Things IntO A compuTer, theY've beEn TryING to maKE AlL thEiR files elecTROniC for sOmE timE. So I was Scanning all those anD He cAme down to checK ouT the PROcEss, i KiND of WaLKed HIM through it. That wAs an intereStINg InteractioN For Me, i mean I wAs very nErvouS Because He
 that if I don't know that  person, I  don' t h ave  a ny c onne ction to thatp erso n, then I don't care w hat t he y  hav e  t o say  and wh y  a m I g oi ng  to  l e tit bo the r me. S o I thinktha tthat particu l ar  thing hel ped  me... Eventhe  confe ss ion a ls, e ven  thou gh the y  werevery inte ns e , youd o feelk i nd  ofgood getting them of f  your chest, i t's ju st th a t  th e p unishmentaf terwa r d is... Yo u k now in the Cathol ic church,y oudon'tge t p u nishme nt, y ou jus t do penanc e, y ou just s ay you r  prayer s  and it 's a p riv ate  thi n g. .. 

P GI w o ul d s a y t he churc his  puni shme n t , butgoahea d.

D B

But the si nsthat you  conf ess,youkn ow th e over ts an dthe withholds t heybecome pu bli c,  Sc ie ntolo g ists l ove  go ssip... . thatp art ,t h a thumiliation and st uf f is  bad. Bu t I th i nk  t h at the c on fes sion p art o f it is  good. I t's ni c eto  get st uf f offyo urche st.
P G

Y eah, j ust notso go o d when it's us e d against you . 
D B 
E xact ly. 

PG

Or fe el l i ke i t'sb ei ngh eld o ver y ou r  h e ad.

DB

Exactly.
PG 

Have  youever met Davi d Miscavia g e ? 

DB

No , I' v en ever met him i n per son. I'veb een very  clos e to him , in prox i m ity, but  he  do esn 'tu s ua lly interactw i th t he  low pe opl e and I  wa s o neofth em, so, I  never g ot  t ota lkto hi m .

PG

W ho  wa sthe  high e st ran kingmemb er  t h atyou int e ra c t ed w it h? 

DB 

H is  name  isG uil laume L esevre Ithi n k he 's  F rench,he's the Exec ut ive Direct or  In ternat i o nal he's  called. He's... I don' t  know e xac tly h ow t hat posit ion  works , b u t he's  justveryhi ghu p  ther e .  H e c am e down to, w hen  I wo rk ed a t the A dvanced Organizati o n i n LA, they de liv er t h e  O T l e ve l s,Iw asi n  the basement s canning ce nt r al  files, Iw asdo ing tha t whole  thin g . Theyhave seve ral diffe re nt f i l ing  systems,this one  called C e ntral Fi les i s w here t he y k eep c orresp o nde nce w ithinth e orga nizat io n, lette rs going back and forth , noth ing p riv ate or an yth i nglike that . So  I scan th ese  th ingsint o  a co mput e r,  th e y'vebeen trying to ma kea l ltheir files e l ect ronic  fo r  sometime . So I was scanni n g all those an d he c ame  do w n to  c heck out the p roc es s ,  I kindof  walked him  through  i t . Tha t wasan int erestin g in t eracti on f orme, I mea n I  w a s veryne rv o us bec ause  h e
 that_if I_don't know that person,_I don't_have_any connection_to_that person, then_I don't care_what they have to_say and why_am_I going to let it bother me. So I think that that particular thing_helped_me... Even_the_confessionals,_even though they were very_intense, you do feel kind_of good_getting them off your chest, it's just that_the_punishment afterward is..._You know in the Catholic church, you don't get_punishment, you just do penance, you_just say your_prayers_and_it's a private thing...

PG

I_would say the church is punishment,_but go ahead.

DB

But the sins that_you confess, you know the overts and_the withholds they become public, Scientologists_love gossip.... that part, that_humiliation and_stuff is bad. But I_think that the_confession part_of it is_good. It's nice to get stuff_off your chest.

PG

Yeah,_just not so good when it's_used_against you.

DB

Exactly.

PG

Or feel_like_it's_being held_over your head.

DB

Exactly.

PG

Have_you_ever met_David_Miscaviage?

DB

No, I've never met him in_person._I've been very close to him, in_proximity, but he doesn't_usually_interact with the low_people and I was one_of them, so, I never got_to talk_to him.

PG

Who_was the highest ranking member that you interacted with?

DB

His name is_Guillaume Lesevre I think he's French,_he's the Executive Director_International he's_called._He's... I don't_know_exactly how_that position works, but he's just very_high up_there. He came down to, when_I worked at the_Advanced_Organization in LA, they deliver the_OT levels, I was in the_basement scanning central files, I_was_doing_that whole thing. They have_several different filing systems, this one_called Central Files_is where they keep correspondence within the_organization,_letters going back and forth, nothing_private_or anything like that. So I_scan_these_things into a computer, they've_been trying to make all their_files electronic for some time. So I was scanning_all those and_he came down to check_out_the_process, I kind of walked him through it. That was_an interesting_interaction for me,_I mean I was very nervous because he