 a, as a way to think about some of the effects on crime that like people just don’t think about it. So I wanted to bring that here.

SAM: This is interesting because there has been so much debate [00:29:00] over the past several years into what explains the massive drop in crime since the 1980s and you know, this is something where, you know, on the right, a lot of conservatives and police are saying, well, it’s because we invested in more police in prisons and there was the `94 crime bill and we locked a whole bunch of people up and of course, those people tended to be black and brown.

Um, and that’s why the crime rate reduced, but then you have reports that actually look into this, like the Brennan Center did a pretty comprehensive investigation into the causes of the crime decline and the relationship to policing. And they found that the massive increase in resources for police had between 0 and 5% impact on the decline in crime rates over that time. So anywhere from no impact at all to a very tiny impact, and then you have studies like this that completely reframe the conversation to not at all be thinking about police and prisons and centering them as somehow playing an important role in addressing crime, which we know they do not.

[00:30:00] But, instead looking at factors like the prevalence of cell phones or factors like lead poisoning, right? And the impact of lead poisoning on behavior and developmental growth. You have issues like even the weather, the climate warming, and the impact of temperature. So, like there are all of these other factors, environmental factors that are not explained by policing that impact crime, that impacts what happens in terms of conflict in communities.

And so I’m always fascinated by these studies that completely reframe the conversation to focus on the variety of factors that are often not thought about, that are often not considered, particularly by policymakers who tend to look towards the police as the only way to address issues of crime and communities.

BRITTANY: Sam, I’m glad that you brought up that point because that was the thing that really stood out to me, that the confirmation bias of people who already operate in government systems to say, of course it’s the solutions that we came up with. More police, more incarceration, tactics like stop and frisk, broken windows policing that have led [00:31:00] to a reduction
a, as a way to think about some of the effects on crime that like people barely do n’t remember about it. So I wanted to bring that here. 

 SAM: This is interesting because there has been then much debate [ 00:29:00 ] over the past several year into what explain the massive drop in crime since the 1980s and you know, this is something where, you know, on the right field, a lot of conservatives and police are saying, well, it ’s because we invested in more police in prison and there was the '94 crime bill and we locked a whole bunch of citizenry up and of course, those people tended to be bootleg and brown. 

 Um, and that ’s why the crime rate reduced, but then you receive composition that actually look into this, like the Brennan Center do a pretty comprehensive investigation into the causes of the crime decay and the relationship to policing. And they found that the massive increase in resources for police had between 0 and 5% impact on the decline in crime rates over that time. So anywhere from no impact at all to a very tiny impact, and then you have studies like this that completely reframe the conversation to not at wholly be think about police and prisons and center them as somehow playing an important role in addressing crime, which we acknowledge they do not. 

 [ 00:30:00 ] But, instead looking at factors like the preponderance of cell phones or factors like lead poisoning, right? And the impact of lead poisoning on behavior and developmental growth. You have issues like even the weather, the climate warming, and the impact of temperature. therefore, like there are all of these early gene, environmental factors that are not explained by policing that impact crime, that impact what happens in terms of conflict in community. 

 And so I ’m always fascinated by these studies that wholly reframe the conversation to focus on the variety of factors that are often not thought about, that are frequently not considered, peculiarly by policymakers who tend to look towards the police as the only way to address offspring of crime and communities. 

 BRITTANY: Sam, I ’m glad that you brought up that point because that was the matter that really stood out to me, that the confirmation diagonal of people who already operate in government systems to state, of course it ’s the solutions that we came up with. More police, more captivity, tactics like stop and frisk, broken windows policing that have led [ 00:31:00 ] to a reduction
 a, ws a way to think about rome of the effgcrs on rrime tgat like people just don’t think abouv it. So I wanted to bring that fere.

SAM: Tjis is ibtertsting because thxde has nzen sk muck vebate [00:29:00] over thg past severdl years into fhxt explains the massive drop in crime since yhf 1980s and you knjw, tnys ia something where, you know, on the dight, a lot of consetvatives and police are sajing, well, it’s because ae invested in iire police iv prisons and there waa the `94 crime bill and we locked a whple bunch if pelkle up and oh courfe, those peoike tenged to ne black and bvown.

Uk, abd that’s why the crimx rate reduced, but tren you hdvz reports that actualoy look intm thkw, lkke tie Grennaj Cxnter did a pretty comprehensive investigstyin into the czuses jf the crime decline and the relationship to policing. And they foune that the massive infrease in resources for police had between 0 and 5% impact on the vezliuc kb frime rates over that time. So anywhere from nj ikpsct at all to c very tiny impavt, amq then you haxe stubjea like this that clmpletejy redrame the confersation to not at all be rhinking abolt pilice and prisons cnd centeriny them as spmehow playing an imporcant rkle in addrfssing crjoe, which we know thvy dm not.

[00:30:00] Buu, instead looking wt factorw lile the orevslence of cell pjones or factors like lewd ponsonitg, right? Ajd the impact of lead poisoning on behavior amd denelopmentcl groeth. You have yssues like evgn the wecther, ghe climatv warming, and the im[act of tempeswture. So, likx there awe aol od these uther factors, rnvironmeuual factorw that are not expkaivsd by policing ckau umpact crime, tnat im[abts wrdt happens it tefms pf covflict in ciomunoties.

And so I’m alwayv faacinated by these xtmdies thaj completqly reframe tne conversation to focuv oi the faryety of factors that are often not thouhht about, that wre iften not cousidered, particularly by policymakers whi tend to look towqrds the police as jhe only way tp addwess issuas of crime and commynities.

BRITTANY: Ssm, I’m glad that you bdought up tjat point because that was the thing that really stood out to me, that the conficmwtion bias kf prople wko clready opecave in government xystems to say, of course it’s thx solutionv chat we came up with. More polocd, more incarcgration, tactics like stop znd frisl, broken windows policing that nave led [00:31:00] to a reduction
a, as a way to think about the on crime like people just I to bring that SAM: This is because there has been so much [00:29:00] over the past several years into what explains the massive drop in since the 1980s and you know, this is something where, you know, on right, lot conservatives police are saying, well, it’s because we invested in more police in prisons and there was `94 crime bill and we locked a whole of people up and course, those people tended to black brown. Um, that’s the rate reduced, but you have reports that actually look into this, like the Brennan Center did a pretty comprehensive investigation the causes crime decline the to And they found massive increase in resources for police and 5% impact on the decline in crime over that So anywhere from no impact at to a very tiny impact, and then you studies like this that completely reframe the conversation to not at all be thinking about prisons and centering them somehow playing an role addressing which know they not. [00:30:00] But, instead looking at factors like the prevalence of phones or factors like lead poisoning, right? And the impact poisoning behavior and developmental You have issues like the the climate warming, and of So, all these factors, environmental factors that not explained by policing that crime, that impacts what in communities. And so I’m always fascinated by studies that completely reframe the conversation to on the variety of factors that are often not thought about, that often not by policymakers who tend to look towards the as the only way address issues of crime and communities. BRITTANY: Sam, I’m that brought up point because that the thing that stood out to the confirmation of who government systems to say, of course the that we came up with. police, tactics like stop and frisk, broken windows policing that have led [00:31:00] to a reduction
 a, as a way to think about some of The effects On criMe tHat LiKe peOple Just don’t think aBOut iT. So I wanted to bring that hEre.

SAm: THIs is INtErestIng becaUSe THEre HaS bEen So MUcH debaTe [00:29:00] oVer the pAst several YeaRs Into what explAInS the massivE drOp in crime sinCe tHe 1980s and YoU knOW, this Is sOmethIng wheRE, you knOw, on the riGhT, A lot of COnservaTIVeS and Police are saying, weLL, iT’S because we inveSted in MoRE pOLIce In pRisons and tHeRe was THe `94 crime BIlL AND we LOcked a whole buNch of people UP anD of couRsE, thOSe peopLe tenDeD To bE black and brOwn.

UM, and that’s Why the CRime ratE Reduced, But theN yoU haVe rePOrTs ThaT aCTuaLLy LooK IntO this, likE tHe brennAn CeNTER Did a PreTty cOmpreHensive investIgaTion INto The caUses oF the CrIme deCline aNd the ReLationship to polIcinG. And they fOunD tHat ThE massIVe incrEasE in ResourcEs for poLIce HaD BETwEen 0 and 5% impact on the dEcLINe In crime rAtes ovER tHaT Time. So anYwHerE froM NO impaCt at ALl To a very tIny impACt, AnD then yoU hAve stuDiEs lIke This tHAt coMpleteLy reframE the cONversation to noT At all be thinkiNG aBOUt POlicE anD prisons and CentERing Them AS sOmeHOw plaYing aN iMPoRTant role in addressinG cRime, whIch we Know they do not.

[00:30:00] but, instead LOOKing at faCtorS LiKE the prevalence Of celL phones or fACtors likE lead PoisoninG, right? And THE impact oF leAd pOisOniNG On Behavior and deVELopmEnTal growTh. YOu have iSsuEs lIke EveN tHe weather, The climaTe WaRmInG, anD the iMPact of teMpEraTuRe. SO, like THere arE all oF theSe OtHEr fActors, eNViRONmenTaL fActoRs tHaT are nOt exPLaiNed by poLicing thaT imPAct cRiMe, That impActs what happeNs In terms of cOnFliCt in coMMUnities.

ANd so I’m always fascinated bY These stUdiEs thaT comPletely reFraMe the cOnvERsatioN to focUs on tHe VarIETy of fACToRs tHaT are often nOT ThoUght aBoUt, thAt are ofTen not considered, paRTicUlarly by policYmaKers WHO tEnd TO lOOk tOwARds THE police as the onlY way to addrEsS IsSues of crimE And CoMmunitiEs.

BRITTaNY: SaM, i’m glad tHat you broUght up thaT pOint BECauSe that was tHe thing tHat really STood oUT tO me, thAt tHe confIrMatIon biAs of peOPle Who alReady oPeRate in GoverNmEnt systeMs to say, of course it’s the soLutionS that We cAme up with. morE PolIce, more inCarcEration, tacTicS liKe stoP anD Frisk, BrokEN wIndOWs polIcinG That have lED [00:31:00] tO a rEDUcTion
 a, as a way to think abou t some ofthe e ffe cts  o n cr imethat like peop l e ju st don’t think about i t. So  I want e dto br ing tha t  h e r e.
S AM : T hi s  i s int ere sting b ecause the reha s been so mu c hdebate [00 :29 :00] over th e p ast se ve ral years  in to wh at exp l ains t he massiv ed rop in crime s i n ce  the  1980s and you kn o w, this is someth ing wh er e ,y o u k now , on the r ig ht, a lot ofc on s e r vat i ves and polic e are sayin g , w ell, i t’ s b e causewe in ve s ted  in more po lice  in priso ns and there w a s the ` 94 cri mebil l an d  w eloc ke d  aw ho leb unc h of peo pl eup an d of c o u rse,  th osepeopl e tended to b e b lack and  brow n.

U m, a nd  that ’s why  thecr ime rate reduce d, b ut then y ouha vere ports that a ctu all y lookinto th i s,li k e th e Brennan Center d id a  p retty co mprehe n si ve investig at ion  int o the c ause s  o f the cr ime de c li ne  and th erelati on shi p t o pol i cing . Andthey fou nd th a t the massivei ncrease in re s ou r c es forpol ice had bet ween 0 an d 5% im pac t  on t he de cl i ne in crime rates over  t hat ti me. S o anywhere fr om no impa c t at all t o av er y  tiny impact,and t hen you ha v e studie s lik e this t hat compl e t ely refr ame  th e c onv e r sa tion to not a t allbe  thinki ngabout p oli ceand  pr is ons and c entering  t he mas  so mehow playingan  im po rta nt ro l e in a ddres sing  c ri m e,which w e  k n o w th ey  d o no t.
[ 00:30 :00] But , inste ad lookin g a t  fac to rs  like t he prevalence  o f cell pho ne s o r fact o r s like l ead poisoning, right? A n d the i mpa ct of  lea d poisoni ngon beh avi o r anddevelo pment al  gr o w th. Y o u  h ave  i ssues like e ven  thewe athe r, theclimate warming, a n d t he impact oftem pera t u re . S o ,l ike  t h ere a re all of these  other fac to r s,  environme n tal  f actorsthat ar e not explain ed by pol icing tha timpa c t  cr ime, thatimpactswhat happ e ns in te rms o f c onflic tincommu nities . 

A nd so  I’m a lw ays fa scina te d by the se studies that complet ely re frame  th e convers ati o n t o focus o n th e varietyoffac torstha t  areofte n  n ott hough t ab o ut, thata re  of t e nnot conside r e d , p artic ula r ly bypoli cymakers who tend to look toward s th e pol ice as t he  only way to a ddr es s issues o fcrime and c ommuniti es . 

BRI TTANY:  Sam,I’m gla d th a t youbrou ght  up thatpoi nt because  t ha t  was t he t hi ng tha t real l y st o o d out to me, tha t the c onfir m ati on bi as  of peo p le w ho already  operate in  gover nmen t sys tems to  s ay, of  co ur se it’s th e  solution s tha t we ca me  upwit h. Mor e po l i ce, m orein car ceration, t ac t ic sl ike  sto p and  f risk , brokenw indows p oli c ing tha thav e led [0 0 :3 1 : 00] to a r edu ction 
 a,_as a_way to think about_some of_the_effects on_crime_that like people_just don’t think_about it. So I_wanted to bring_that_here.

SAM: This is interesting because there has been so much debate [00:29:00] over the_past_several years_into_what_explains the massive drop in_crime since the 1980s and_you know,_this is something where, you know, on the_right,_a lot of_conservatives and police are saying, well, it’s because we_invested in more police in prisons_and there was_the_`94_crime bill and we_locked a whole bunch of people_up and of course, those people_tended to be black and brown.

Um, and_that’s why the crime rate reduced,_but then you have reports_that actually_look into this, like the_Brennan Center did_a pretty_comprehensive investigation into_the causes of the crime decline_and the relationship_to policing. And they found that_the_massive increase in_resources_for_police had_between 0 and_5%_impact on_the_decline in crime rates over that_time._So anywhere from no impact at all_to a very tiny_impact,_and then you have_studies like this that completely_reframe the conversation to not at_all be_thinking about_police and prisons and centering them as somehow playing an important_role in addressing crime, which we_know they do not.

[00:30:00]_But, instead_looking_at factors like_the_prevalence of_cell phones or factors like lead poisoning,_right? And_the impact of lead poisoning on_behavior and developmental growth._You_have issues like even the weather,_the climate warming, and the impact_of temperature. So, like there_are_all_of these other factors, environmental_factors that are not explained by_policing that impact_crime, that impacts what happens in terms_of_conflict in communities.

And so I’m always_fascinated_by these studies that completely reframe_the_conversation_to focus on the variety_of factors that are often not_thought about, that are often not considered, particularly by_policymakers who tend_to look towards the police_as_the_only way to address issues of crime and communities.

BRITTANY: Sam,_I’m glad_that you brought_up that point because that was the thing that really_stood out to me, that the confirmation_bias of people who already operate in government systems to say,_of course it’s the solutions that we came_up with. More police, more incarceration, tactics_like stop and frisk,_broken_windows policing that have led [00:31:00] to_a_reduction