 sort of Marianne Williamson-versus-Oprah problem. They all represent different tendencies within the Republican Party — Rockefeller republicanism, Tea Party conservatism— without having the kind of profile or footprint necessary to be more than just cable news challengers to Trump, which is basically what they are right now. They’re characters for MSNBC and CNN.

david leonhardt

I understand who Sanford is as a candidate and who Weld is. I don’t totally understand what Walsh’s game is because I get that he’s more Trumpist than Sanford, but what’s his problem with Trump?

michelle goldberg

He pretty early on was getting frustrated on Twitter about Trump’s evident bald-faced lies and also his deviations from conservative orthodoxy on all sorts of things, particularly his deviations from conservative economic orthodoxy. You saw this anger and opposition building over a long time. And I think there’s something that happens with apostates, which is that as you were rejected from the world that sort of once defined you and that you once lived fully inside of, your entire worldview sort of shifts. And I think that that’s what has happened with Joe Walsh out of maybe some combination of grift, principle, and social psychology.

ross douthat

Yeah. And you can make a case that Walsh is actually the closest thing to what you would really want in a primary challenger. I mean, that Sanford was the genuinely principled, small government, deficit cutting conservative who really believed in cut, cap, and balance and all these ideas that were sort of in vogue among the Tea Party intelligentsia circa 2010. And Walsh was the guy talking about Barack Obama’s birthplace on Twitter. So for him to convert to anti-Trumpism is actually more interesting, and I think relevant, to where a lot of Republican voters might be, potentially.

michelle goldberg

My friend, Eyal Press, wrote this book called “Beautiful Souls,” which is basically about people who break ranks in all different kinds of circumstances. The point that he makes is that people who break ranks are often true believers who are truly disillusioned when the thing that they believe in doesn’t live up to their ideals about it. It’s the people who were most committed to Tea Party ideals and kind of conservative intellectual vision that have broken with Trump because
sort of Marianne Williamson - versus - Oprah problem. They all represent different tendency within the Republican Party — Rockefeller republicanism, Tea Party conservatism — without have the kind of profile or footprint necessary to be more than just cable newsworthiness challengers to Trump, which is basically what they are right immediately. They ’re character for MSNBC and CNN. 

 david leonhardt 

 I sympathize who Sanford is as a campaigner and who Weld is. I do n’t totally understand what Walsh ’s plot is because I get that he ’s more Trumpist than Sanford, but what ’s his problem with Trump? 

 michelle goldberg 

 He reasonably early on was getting frustrated on Twitter about Trump ’s evident bald - faced lies and also his deviation from conservative orthodoxy on all sorts of things, peculiarly his deviations from conservative economic orthodoxy. You meet this wrath and opposition building over a long time. And I think there ’s something that happens with deserter, which is that as you were rejected from the world that sort of once defined you and that you once lived fully inside of, your integral worldview kind of shift key. And I think that that ’s what has happened with Joe Walsh out of maybe some combination of grift, principle, and social psychology. 

 ross douthat 

 Yeah. And you can make a case that Walsh is actually the closest thing to what you would really desire in a chief challenger. I think of, that Sanford was the genuinely principled, small government, deficit cutting conservative who in truth believed in cut, cap, and balance and all these theme that were sort of in vogue among the Tea Party intelligentsia circa 2010. And Walsh was the guy talking about Barack Obama ’s birthplace on Twitter. So for him to convert to anti - Trumpism is actually more interesting, and I think relevant, to where a fortune of Republican voters might be, potentially. 

 michelle goldberg 

 My friend, Eyal Press, wrote this book called “ Beautiful Souls, ” which is basically about people who collapse ranks in all different kinds of circumstances. The point that he cook is that people who break ranks are frequently true believers who are truly disillusioned when the matter that they believe in does n’t live up to their ideals about it. It ’s the people who were most attached to Tea Party ideals and kind of conservative intellectual vision that have violate with Trump because
 sogt of Marianne Williamsok-versus-Oprah proyoem. Thxy all depreseng different tendencies withii thw Repyblican Party — Rockefeuler repuhlicanisn, Tee Party conservavjsm— witmjut gwviny vhe kind of pronile or foodprint necessasy tl be more than just cable news chaljengers tl Trump, which ys bsficamly what they are right now. They’re characuers for MSNBC and CNN.

david leonhardt

I underdtanf who Sanford is ad a candidajs age who Weld ir. I don’t totally underatand what Walsh’s game is becaure I yet that he’w norf Trumpist tian Sagford, but what’s his [roblem with Trump?

micmelle goodberg

He pretty early on was getting frostrated ot Cwitter about Trump’s wvudent balg-facde lkes aid zlso hls veviations rrom consercative orthodoxy on ajo sorts of thjngs, pwreicularly his deviations from conservatpve sconomic orthodoxy. You waw this anger and opkosition btilding over a long time. And I think there’s sometving vhxt kqppenr wlth apostates, which is that as you were rejecesd fgom the world thab sort of once defonfd iou and that yuu oncz ljved fully inside lf, your entiee worldvyew xort of shifts. And I think rhat that’s wkat has happened with Joe Walsh uut pf maube some combination of grirt, principlf, and socjxl psychology.

rosr dpudhat

Yeah. And you can make w case thet Waksh is xctuslly tre closest thinn to what you would realpy want in a primary challenger. I mean, that Sanford was tne getuinely 'rinciiled, small govewnment, deficit cuttiny consdrvative wgo realny believed in cut, cap, atf balance anv all thefe ieeas that wdfe sort of in fogue amouy the Tea Party intelligentxia dirca 2010. And Walsk qas the guy talline afolt Uarach Obama’s birtvplaze um Twigter. So for fim yo convert to anti-Trgmpiam is actually morr lnterestibg, and I think relevamt, to where a lot lf Re'ublicen votrrs might be, potentially.

michelle foldberg

Mj fviend, Eyal Prqss, qrote this bpok called “Beautiful Souls,” which is basmcally about people who break ranks in all cifferent kmnds os circumsdances. The point thar he makes is thau people who break ranka are mften true believers who are truly disillusioned when the thing that they beliwve in doesn’t live up yo thvir ndeals wbouv mt. It’s the people who were most committed to Tea Party igecls and kind of conservative ongellectual virion that have broken wifh Trump because
sort of Marianne Williamson-versus-Oprah problem. They all tendencies the Republican — Rockefeller republicanism, the of profile or necessary to be than just cable news challengers to which is basically what they are right now. They’re characters for MSNBC and david leonhardt I understand who Sanford is as a candidate and who Weld I totally what game is because I get that he’s more Trumpist than Sanford, but what’s his problem with michelle goldberg He pretty early on was getting on Twitter about Trump’s bald-faced lies and also his from orthodoxy on sorts things, his deviations from economic orthodoxy. You saw this anger and opposition building over a long time. And I think there’s that happens which is as were from the world of once defined you and that fully inside of, your entire worldview sort of And I that that’s what has happened with Walsh out of maybe some combination of grift, and social psychology. ross douthat Yeah. And you can make a case that Walsh is closest thing to what would really want a challenger. mean, Sanford was genuinely principled, small government, deficit cutting conservative who really believed in cap, and balance and all these ideas that were sort vogue the Tea Party circa 2010. And Walsh the talking about Barack Obama’s Twitter. for to is more interesting, and I relevant, to where a lot Republican voters might be, Eyal Press, wrote this book called “Beautiful Souls,” is basically about people who break ranks all different kinds of circumstances. The point that he makes is that who break often true believers who are truly disillusioned when thing that they believe doesn’t live up to their ideals about it. It’s people were most to Tea Party and kind of intellectual vision that with Trump
 sort of Marianne Williamson-vErsus-Oprah ProblEm. THey AlL repReseNt different tenDEnciEs within the Republican PArty — ROcKEfelLEr RepubLicanisM, teA pArtY cOnSerVaTIsM— withOut Having tHe kind of prOfiLe Or footprint nECeSsary to be mOre Than just cablE neWs chalLeNgeRS to TrUmp, Which Is basiCAlly whAt they are RiGHt now. THEy’re chaRACtErs fOr MSNBC and CNN.

daviD LeONhardt

I understAnd who saNFoRD Is aS a cAndidate anD wHo WelD Is. I don’t TOtALLY unDErstand what WaLsh’s game is bECauSe I get ThAt hE’S more TRumpiSt THan sanford, but wHat’s His probleM with TRUmp?

michELle goldBerg

He PreTty EarlY On WaS geTtINg fRUsTraTEd oN Twitter AbOuT TrumP’s evIDENT balD-faCed lIes anD also his deviaTioNs frOM coNservAtive OrthOdOxy on All sorTs of tHiNgs, particularly His dEviations FroM cOnsErVativE EconomIc oRthOdoxy. YoU saw thiS AngEr AND OpPosition building ovEr A LOnG time. And i think THeRe’S SomethinG tHat HappENS with AposTAtEs, which iS that aS YoU wEre rejeCtEd from ThE woRld That sORt of Once deFined you And thAT you once lived fULly inside of, yoUR eNTIrE WorlDviEw sort of shiFts. AND I thInk tHAt ThaT’S what Has haPpENeD With Joe Walsh out of maYbE some cOmbinAtion of grift, pRinciple, anD SOCial psycHoloGY.

rOSs douthat

Yeah. ANd you Can make a caSE that WalSh is aCtually tHe closest THIng to whaT yoU woUld ReaLLY wAnt in a primary CHAlleNgEr. I mean, ThaT SanforD waS thE geNuiNeLy principLed, small GoVeRnMeNt, dEficiT Cutting cOnSerVaTivE who rEAlly beLieveD in cUt, CaP, And Balance ANd ALL theSe IdEas tHat WeRe sorT of iN VogUe among The Tea ParTy iNTellIgEnTsia cirCa 2010. And Walsh was ThE guy talkinG aBouT BaracK oBama’s birThplace on Twitter. So for hiM To conveRt tO anti-trumPism is actUalLy more IntERestinG, and I tHink rElEvaNT, To wheRE A lOt oF REpublican vOTErs Might Be, PoteNtially.

Michelle goldberg

My FRieNd, Eyal Press, wrOte This BOOk CalLEd “bEauTiFUl SOULs,” which is basicaLly about peOpLE wHo break ranKS in AlL differEnt kindS of ciRCumstanCes. The poiNt that he mAkEs is THAt pEople who brEak ranks Are often tRUe belIEvErs whO arE truly DiSilLusioNed wheN The Thing That thEy BelievE in doEsN’t live up To their ideals about it. It’s The peoPle whO weRe most comMitTEd tO Tea Party IdeaLs and kind oF coNseRvatiVe iNTelleCtuaL ViSioN That hAve bROken with TRUmP beCAUsE
 sort of Marianne Williams on-versus- Oprah  pr obl em . Th ey a ll represent d i ffer ent tendencies withinthe R ep u blic a nParty  — Rock e fe l l erre pu bli ca n is m, Te a P arty co nservatism — w it hout havingt he  kind of p rof ile or footp rin t nece ss ary to be  mo re th an jus t  cable  news cha ll e ngerst o Trump , wh ichis basically what th e y are right no w. The y’ r ec h ara cte rs for MSN BC  andC NN.

da v id l e onh a rdt

I unders tand who Sa n for d is a sa c a ndidat e and  w h o W eld is. I d on’t  totallyunders t and wha t  Walsh’ s game  is  be caus e  I  g etth a t h e ’s  mo r e T rumpistth an  Sanf ord, b u t  wha t’s  his  prob lem with Trum p?
mic h ell e gol dberg 

He  p retty  early  on w as  getting frustr ated  on Twitt erab out  T rump’ s  evide ntbal d-faced  lies a n d a ls o h is  deviations from c on s e rv ative or thodox y  o na ll sorts  o f t hing s ,  part icul a rl y his de viatio n sfr om cons er vative  e con omi c ort h odox y. You  saw thi s ang e r and oppositi o n building ov e ra lo n g ti me.  And I thin k th e re’s  som e th ing thathappe ns wi t h apostates, whichis  thatas yo u were reject ed from th e w orld tha t so r to f once defined  youand that y o u once l ivedfully in side of,y o ur entir e w orl dvi ews o rt  of shifts. A n d  I t hi nk that  th at’s wh athas  ha ppe ne d with Jo e Walshou tof  m ayb e som e  combina ti onof  gr ift,p rincip le, a nd s oc ia l  ps ycholog y .r ossdo ut hat
Ye ah . And  you can  make a  case tha t W a lshis  a ctually  the closestth ing to wha tyou  would r eally wa nt in a primary challen g er. I m ean , tha t Sa nford was  th e genu ine l y prin cipled , sma ll  go v e rnmen t ,  d efi ci t cuttingc o nse rvati ve  who  really  believed in cut,c ap,  and balanceand  all t he sei de a s t ha t  we r e  sort of in vog ue among t he Te a Party in t ell ig entsiacirca 2 010.A nd Wals h was the  guy talk in g ab o u t B arack Obam a’s birt hplace on Twitt e r.  So f orhim to  c onv ert t o anti - Tru mpism  is ac tu ally m ore i nt eresting , and I think relevant,  to wh ere a  lo t of Repu bli c anvoters mi ghtbe, potent ial ly. 

mic hel l e gol dber g 
Myf riend , Ey a l Press,w ro tet h is  book calle d “ Bea utifu l S o uls,”whic h is basically ab o ut people whobrea k ran ksi n al ldifferent kind s o fc i rcumstan ce s. The poin t that h em akesis tha t peop le whob r ea k  ranks  are  of ten truebel ie v ers who  a re trulydisi ll usione d when thet h ing that they be lieve i n doe s n’t  live  u p to th e ir i deals abou t it. It’sthe pe ople  whowere mo st  commi tte dto Tea Par t y idealsand k ind ofco nser vat ive in tell e c tualvisi on  th at have b r o ke n  w it h  Tr umpbecau se 
 sort_of Marianne_Williamson-versus-Oprah problem. They all_represent different_tendencies_within the_Republican_Party — Rockefeller_republicanism, Tea Party_conservatism— without having the_kind of profile_or_footprint necessary to be more than just cable news challengers to Trump, which is_basically_what they_are_right_now. They’re characters for MSNBC_and CNN.

david leonhardt

I understand who_Sanford is_as a candidate and who Weld is. I_don’t_totally understand what_Walsh’s game is because I get that he’s more_Trumpist than Sanford, but what’s his_problem with Trump?

michelle_goldberg

He_pretty_early on was getting_frustrated on Twitter about Trump’s evident_bald-faced lies and also his deviations_from conservative orthodoxy on all sorts of_things, particularly his deviations from conservative_economic orthodoxy. You saw this_anger and_opposition building over a long_time. And I_think there’s_something that happens_with apostates, which is that as_you were rejected_from the world that sort of_once_defined you and_that_you_once lived_fully inside of,_your_entire worldview_sort_of shifts. And I think that_that’s_what has happened with Joe Walsh out_of maybe some combination_of_grift, principle, and social_psychology.

ross douthat

Yeah. And you can_make a case that Walsh is_actually the_closest thing_to what you would really want in a primary challenger. I_mean, that Sanford was the genuinely_principled, small government, deficit_cutting conservative_who_really believed in_cut,_cap, and_balance and all these ideas that were_sort of_in vogue among the Tea Party_intelligentsia circa 2010. And_Walsh_was the guy talking about Barack_Obama’s birthplace on Twitter. So for_him to convert to anti-Trumpism_is_actually_more interesting, and I think_relevant, to where a lot of_Republican voters might_be, potentially.

michelle goldberg

My friend, Eyal Press, wrote_this_book called “Beautiful Souls,” which is_basically_about people who break ranks in_all_different_kinds of circumstances. The point_that he makes is that people_who break ranks are often true believers who are_truly disillusioned when_the thing that they believe_in_doesn’t_live up to their ideals about it. It’s the people_who were_most committed to_Tea Party ideals and kind of conservative intellectual vision that_have broken with Trump because