 avoid paying benefits by keeping their workers as independent contractors rather than as employees. It isn't that simple. Yes, it does save them money, but independent contractor status is also important to the scalability and flexibility of the model. And then you go on to make the following point, which I think is fantastic: Unlike taxis, which must be on the road full time to earn enough to cover the driver's daily rental fee, the Uber and Lyft model allows many more drivers to work part time and take passenger requests simultaneously from both services, leading to an ebb and flow of supply that more naturally matches demand. More drivers means better availability for customers, shorter wait times, and far better geographic coverage. These companies are able to provide 5-minute response time over a far larger geographical area than traditional taxi and limousine companies. That's a great point. I've never seen it made before. And I just think, again, the creativity and the getting-used-to and the what's-going-on underneath this is just so hard to know. And you are worried about whether they pay enough, whether they should have lower turnover. My first thought is, 'Well, they'll figure that out. They have a pretty good incentive to.' They might not figure it out for a while. It may take 'em, their culture and CEO [Chief Executive Officer] and leadership and management may struggle with those issues. But I think they'll get the hang of it. And I think--as you say, I think it's the future, whether we like it or not. I like it. I think it's unbelievable. It's changed my life when I travel, in so many pleasant ways. Tim O'Reilly: Yeah. So, one of the things that is super-important to remember or to understand is this great phrase from, that I learned, from these consultants back in 2000, called the beams[?]. And it was really--they were talking about business models as, the way that all of the parts of the business work together to create marketplace advantage and customer value. And, it's so often you see people who don't really understand how all of the parts of a business have to work together. And so, for example, taxi companies, they say, 'Well, we just have to have an app.' Thinking that the app that lets you summon cars is the magic. And that's one small part of the magic. Because, you do have to have that critical mass of
avoid paying benefits by keeping their worker as autonomous contractors rather than as employee. It isn't that simple. Yes, it does keep open them money, but independent contractile organ status is also important to the scalability and tractability of the exemplar. And then you go on to take the following point, which I intend is antic: Unlike taxis, which must be on the road full meter to earn enough to embrace the driver's daily rental fee, the Uber and Lyft model allow many more drivers to work part time and carry passenger requests simultaneously from both services, leading to an ebb and flow of supply that more naturally match demand. More drivers means better availability for customer, short wait times, and far better geographic coverage. These companies are able to provide 5 - minute response time over a far larger geographic area than traditional taxi and limousine ship's company. That's a big point. I've never seen it made earlier. And I just think, again, the creativity and the getting - used - to and the what's - go - on underneath this is just so hard to know. And you are worried about whether they pay enough, whether they should get lower turnover. My first thought is,' Well, they'll figure that out. They have a reasonably effective incentive to.' They might not figure it out for a while. It may take'em, their culture and chief executive officer [ Chief Executive Officer ] and leadership and management may struggle with those issues. But I think they'll get the hang of it. And I think -- as you say, I think it's the future, whether we like it or not. I wish it. I think it's unbelievable. It's changed my life when I travel, in so many pleasant way. Tim O'Reilly: Yeah. So, one of the thing that is super - significant to remember or to sympathize is this great phrase from, that I learned, from these adviser back in 2000, called the beams [? ]. And it was really -- they were talking about business models as, the way that all of the parts of the business work together to create market advantage and customer value. And, it's so often you watch people who don't really understand how all of the parts of a business have to work in concert. And so, for example, taxi companies, they say,' Well, we just have to have an app.' think that the app that let you summon cars is the magic. And that's one small part of the magic. Because, you do have to suffer that critical mass of
 avlid paying benefits by kteping their workgrw as iidependsnt contfactors rather than as emplobees. It iwn't that simple. Yes, it does savv them mobey, uut independent rkntractor stafms is elso important jo the scalatility and fleficipity of the model. And then you go og to male the following poime, whjbh I think is fantastic: Unlike faxis, wiich must be on the road full time to earj enlugh to cover the friver's daioy rqbtal fee, the Uber and Lyft model amlows many more drivers to work part time and jcje odssenger rewuestf simultaneomxly frmm both services, leadlng tm ab ebb and flow of sup'ly that more naturajly matchas demand. More drivwrw meats battef avxilzbmlify for cuatomers, shkrter wait rimes, and far bettet dvpgraphic covsrage. Ehqse companies are able to provide 5-minutt reslonse time over a far lqrger geographical arga than trwditional taxi and limousine companies. That's a graat pkknt. I'ye ndceg seen it made before. And I just think, again, ege cgeativity and the getting-usec-tl sgd the what's-guing-on unserneath this is jkst so rard ro know. Agd ypu are worried about whethee they pay euouth, whether they shluld have luwer turnpver. My first thought ir, 'Weml, they'll flgure thaf out. They have a prvtty good incentive to.' They midht not fmgure it out for a whije. It may hake 'ck, their culture anf CEO [Cvief Execuhive Officer] and leadership and management mai sdrucgle witk thosc issues. But I ehink they'll ggt the haug of kt. And I tgink--as bou say, I thynk it's the fgjure, whether xe like ie or not. I like kt. I think it's unbelievcyle. It's cyanged my life whek I ttabel, in so many 'utawant ways. Tim P'Rekllr: Jeai. So, jte of the thhngs thxy is ruper-imkjrbang to remember or to undesstahd is this great pnrwse from, that I jearned, from yhese consultants hack mn 2000, cauled yhe beams[?]. And it was really--they wsre talkijg wbout businefs midels as, the way that all of the parts of the businxss work together to cteate marketplace advcnuage and custpmer dalue. And, it's so often you sew people who don't really understand hos all mf thf parts of a business have to work together. And so, for example, taxi compabies, tier say, 'Well, se jist hdvz tp have an ep'.' Thinking that tne app that lets you summon carr is the mcgic. And that's one small part ow the magic. Bgcause, you do have to have that crotical mass of
avoid paying benefits by keeping their workers contractors than as It isn't that them but independent contractor is also important the scalability and flexibility of the And then you go on to make the following point, which I think fantastic: Unlike taxis, which must be on the road full time to earn to the daily fee, the Uber and Lyft model allows many more drivers to work part time and take requests simultaneously from both services, leading to an and flow of supply more naturally matches demand. More means availability for shorter times, far better geographic These companies are able to provide 5-minute response time over a far larger geographical area than traditional and limousine a great I've seen made before. And think, again, the creativity and the what's-going-on underneath this is just so hard to And you worried about whether they pay enough, they should have lower turnover. My first thought 'Well, they'll figure that out. They have a pretty good incentive to.' They might not out for a while. may take 'em, culture CEO Executive and leadership management may struggle with those issues. But I think they'll get hang of it. And I think--as you say, I think future, we like it not. I like it. think unbelievable. It's changed my I in ways. O'Reilly: So, one of the that is super-important to remember to understand is this learned, from these consultants back in 2000, called beams[?]. And it was really--they were talking business models as, the way that all of the parts of the work together marketplace advantage and customer value. And, it's so you see people who really understand how all of the parts of a have work together. so, for example, companies, they say, we just have an app.' that app summon cars is the magic. And one part of the magic. Because, do have that critical mass of
 avoid paying benefits by keepIng their woRkers As iNdePeNdenT conTractors rather THan aS employees. It isn't that siMple. YEs, IT doeS SaVe theM money, bUT iNDEpeNdEnT coNtRAcTor stAtuS is also Important tO thE sCalability anD FlExibility oF thE model. And theN yoU go on tO mAke THe folLowIng poInt, whiCH I thinK is fantasTiC: unlike TAxis, whiCH MuSt be On the road full time TO eARn enough to coveR the drIvER's DAIly RenTal fee, the UBeR and LYFt model ALlOWS ManY More drivers to Work part timE And Take paSsEngER requeSts siMuLTanEously from bOth sErvices, leAding tO An ebb anD Flow of sUpply tHat MorE natURaLlY maTcHEs dEMaNd. MORe dRivers meAnS bEtter AvaiLABILity For CustOmers, Shorter wait tiMes, And fAR beTter gEograPhic CoVeragE. These CompaNiEs are able to provIde 5-mInute respOnsE tIme OvEr a faR Larger GeoGraPhical aRea than TRadItIONAl Taxi and limousine coMpANIeS. That's a gReat poINt. i'vE Never seeN iT maDe beFORe. And i jusT ThInk, again, The creATiViTy and thE gEtting-UsEd-tO anD the wHAt's-gOing-on UnderneaTh thiS Is just so hard to KNow. And you are wORrIED aBOut wHetHer they pay eNougH, WhetHer tHEy ShoULd havE loweR tURnOVer. My first thought is, 'weLl, they'Ll figUre that out. TheY have a pretTY GOod incenTive TO.' THEy might not figuRe it oUt for a whilE. it may takE 'em, thEir cultuRe and CEO [CHIEf ExecutIve offIceR] anD LEaDership and manAGEmenT mAy strugGle With thoSe iSsuEs. BUt I ThInk they'll Get the haNg Of It. anD I tHink--aS You say, I tHiNk iT's The FuturE, WhetheR we liKe it Or NoT. i liKe it. I thINk IT'S unbElIeVablE. It'S cHangeD my lIFe wHen I traVel, in so maNy pLEasaNt WaYs. Tim O'REilly: Yeah. So, onE oF the things ThAt iS super-IMPortant tO remember or to understand IS this grEat PhrasE froM, that I leaRneD, from tHesE ConsulTants bAck in 2000, CaLleD THe beaMS[?]. anD it WaS really--theY WEre TalkiNg AbouT busineSs models as, the way thAT alL of the parts of The BusiNESs WorK ToGEthEr TO crEATe marketplace adVantage and CuSToMer value. AnD, It's So Often yoU see peoPle whO Don't reaLly undersTand how alL oF the PARts Of a businesS have to wOrk togethER. And sO, FoR examPle, Taxi coMpAniEs, theY say, 'WeLL, we Just hAve to hAvE an app.' thinkInG that the App that lets you summon carS is the Magic. and That's one sMalL ParT of the magIc. BeCause, you do HavE to Have tHat CRiticAl maSS oF
 avoid paying benefits bykeeping th eir w ork ers  a s in depe ndent contract o rs r ather than as employee s. It  i s n'tt ha t sim ple. Ye s ,i t  do es  s ave  t h em  mone y,but ind ependent c ont ra ctor statusi salso impor tan t to the sca lab ilityan d f l exibi lit y ofthe mo d el. An d then yo ug o on t o  make t h e  f ollo wing point, which It hink is fantas tic: U nl i ke t axi s,which must  b e ont he road fu l l tim e  to earn enou gh to cover the  drive r' s d a ily re ntalfe e , t he Uber and  Lyf t model a llowsm any mor e  driver s to w ork  pa rt t i me  a ndta k e p a ss eng e r r equestssi mu ltane ousl y f r om b oth  ser vices , leading toanebba ndflowof su pply  t hat m ore na tural ly  matches demand . Mo re driver s m ea nsbe ttera vailab ili tyfor cus tomers, sho rt e r wa it times, and farbe t t er  geograp hic co v er ag e . Theseco mpa nies a re ab le t o  p rovide 5 -minut e  r es ponse t im e over  a  fa r l arger geog raphic al areathant raditional tax i  and limousin e  c o m pa n ies.  Th at's a grea t po i nt.I've ne ver seenit ma de be f ore. And I just thi nk , agai n, th e creativityand the ge t t i ng-used- to a n dt he what's-goin g-onunderneath this isjustso hardto know.A n d you ar e w orr ied  ab o u twhether theyp a y en ou gh, whe the r theysho uld  ha velo wer turno ver. Myfi rs tth oug ht is ,  'Well,th ey' ll  fi guret hat ou t. Th ey h av ea  pr etty go o di n cent iv eto.'  Th ey  migh t no t  fi gure it  out fora w h ile.  I tmay tak e 'em, theircu lture andCE O [ ChiefE x ecutiveOfficer] and leadership and man age mentmaystrugglewit h thos e i s sues.But Ithink  t hey ' l l get t he  ha ng  of it. An d I t hink- -a s yo u say,I think it's the f u tur e, whether we  li ke i t or  no t .I  li ke it. I  think it's unb elievable.  I t 's  changed m y  li fe  when I  travel , ins o manypleasantways. Tim  O 'Rei l l y:Yeah. So,one of t he things thati ssuper -im portan ttoremem ber or tounder standis  thisgreat  p hrase fr om, that I learned, fro m thes e con sul tants bac k i n  20 00, calle d th e beams[?] . A ndit wa s r e ally- -the y  w ere talki ng a b out busin e ss  mo d e ls  as, the wa y t hat  alloft he par ts o f the business wo r k together tocrea t e  ma rke t plac eadvantage andcus to m e r value.  A nd, it's so  often y ou see p eoplewho do n't rea l l yu nderst andhow  all of t hepa r ts of a  b us i ness h aveto  worktogeth e r. A n d  so, for example , tax i compa n ies , the ysay, 'W e ll,we just ha ve to havean app .' T hinki ng that  t he app  th at  lets yous ummon car s isthe mag ic . An d t hat'sones m all p artof  th e magic.B e ca u se ,y oudo h ave t ohave  that cri t ical mas s o f 
 avoid_paying benefits_by keeping their workers_as independent_contractors_rather than_as_employees. It isn't_that simple. Yes,_it does save them_money, but independent_contractor_status is also important to the scalability and flexibility of the model. And then_you_go on_to_make_the following point, which I_think is fantastic: Unlike taxis,_which must_be on the road full time to earn_enough_to cover the_driver's daily rental fee, the Uber and Lyft model_allows many more drivers to work_part time and_take_passenger_requests simultaneously from both_services, leading to an ebb and_flow of supply that more naturally_matches demand. More drivers means better availability_for customers, shorter wait times, and_far better geographic coverage. These_companies are_able to provide 5-minute response_time over a_far larger_geographical area than_traditional taxi and limousine companies. That's_a great point._I've never seen it made before._And_I just think,_again,_the_creativity and_the getting-used-to and_the_what's-going-on underneath_this_is just so hard to know._And_you are worried about whether they pay_enough, whether they should_have_lower turnover. My first_thought is, 'Well, they'll figure_that out. They have a pretty_good incentive_to.' They_might not figure it out for a while. It may take_'em, their culture and CEO [Chief_Executive Officer] and leadership_and management_may_struggle with those_issues._But I_think they'll get the hang of it._And I_think--as you say, I think it's_the future, whether we_like_it or not. I like it._I think it's unbelievable. It's changed_my life when I travel,_in_so_many pleasant ways. Tim O'Reilly:_Yeah. So, one of the things_that is super-important_to remember or to understand is this_great_phrase from, that I learned, from_these_consultants back in 2000, called the_beams[?]._And_it was really--they were talking_about business models as, the way_that all of the parts of the business work_together to create_marketplace advantage and customer value._And,_it's_so often you see people who don't really understand how_all of_the parts of_a business have to work together. And so, for example,_taxi companies, they say, 'Well, we just_have to have an app.' Thinking that the app that lets_you summon cars is the magic. And that's_one small part of the magic. Because,_you do have to_have_that critical mass of