, and you can’t see it. Or you might be right, and it might well be the case that what they’re saying is just not right. But I certainly had that feeling reinforced when I saw these figures come to campus, some of whom were extremely impressive, but none of whom seemed like they were on a different plane of existence. They were just people.

michael barbaro

So at this point, a year or two into Harvard, have you made up your mind that you were probably going to find a way to have a career in politics?

pete buttigieg

I knew I wanted a career that involved policy. I don’t think I’d figured out for sure that that meant running. Plus, you know, when I thought about it, even well before I was coming to terms with the fact that I was gay, I knew that I had no political connections at home. I had an unpronounceable name, and I was a Democrat who lived in Indiana. So it was not obvious that I could overcome some of the obstacles toward running. But I think it’s safe to say by the time I graduated, I had some sense that I could see myself doing it.

michael barbaro

Well, I want to talk to you about that realization of your sexuality in particular. Obviously, your candidacy is historic in a couple of different ways, and among those is the fact you’re the first major party presidential candidate who is openly gay. And so I want to ask you about that part of your identity. When did you sense that you were gay? When did that realization start to dawn on you?

pete buttigieg

I think it depends what you mean by realization, right? There are things you could point to going way back, certainly a fascination I had with a classmate when I was about 12 that, in hindsight, is very obviously a crush. But I was not willing to think of it that way, although some part of me must have — I mean, I wasn’t stupid either, right? So you have this kind of awareness that was definitely there by the time I was hitting middle school. But taking a word like gay and applying it to myself, I was still years away from being able to do that, even in my own mind.

michael barbaro

Well, what did you do with those feelings?

pete buttigieg
, and you ca n’t see it. Or you might be right, and it might well be the case that what they ’re saying is barely not proper. But I certainly had that feeling reinforce when I saw these figures fall to campus, some of whom were highly impressive, but none of whom seemed like they were on a different plane of existence. They were just multitude. 

 michael barbaro 

 So at this point, a class or two into Harvard, have you made up your mind that you were probably going to find a way to have a career in politics? 

 pete buttigieg 

 I know I wanted a career that involved policy. I do n’t think I ’d calculate out for sure that that meant running. Plus, you know, when I think about it, even well before I was coming to terms with the fact that I was gay, I knew that I had no political connection at home. I had an unpronounceable name, and I was a Democrat who lived in Indiana. So it was not obvious that I could overcome some of the obstacle toward running. But I think it ’s safe to say by the time I graduated, I had some sense that I could see myself doing it. 

 michael barbaro 

 Well, I desire to speak to you about that realization of your sexuality in finical. Obviously, your campaigning is historic in a couple of unlike ways, and among those is the fact you ’re the first major party presidential candidate who is openly gay. And so I want to ask you about that part of your identity. When did you feel that you were gay? When did that realization start to dawn on you? 

 pete buttigieg 

 I think it depends what you mean by realization, veracious? There are things you could point to going way back, surely a fascination I induce with a classmate when I was about 12 that, in hindsight, is very obviously a crush. But I was not willing to think of it that direction, although some part of me must have — I mean, I was n’t dazed either, right? So you have this kind of awareness that was definitely there by the prison term I was hitting center school. But taking a word like homosexual and applying it to myself, I was still years away from being able to suffice that, even in my own mind. 

 michael barbaro 

 Well, what did you dress with those feelings? 

 pete buttigieg
, anf you can’t see it. Or you might be right, and it might well be the case that what they’re seyint is hust not right. But I cdrtainly jad that feeoung reinfocded whek I sza thzsx figures come jo campus, soke of whom wera dxcremely impressive, but none of whom feemed kine they were og a cyffedvnu plane of existence. They were juat peopne.

michael barnaro

So at this point, a yeag or two into Harvard, jave you maee u[ your mind tfat you wegz probably foing to find a way to have a cxreer in politixs?

petf buttigieg

I knew I wanted a gsreer dhat infolved policy. L don’v thunk I’d figured out foc sure that that meagt runninc. 'lus, you know, when I rhiught abogt ig, evdn sekl beforf I was cominf to terms qith the fact that O rqs gay, I knew that Y rad no political connections at home. I vad an unpronounceable namw, and I was a Democraj who liveq in Indiana. So it was not obvious that I could oeercojd simc of rhf obstacles toward running. But I think it’s sass uo xay by the timc I graduated, I hac dokg sense that I could ses myself doing it.

mlchael farbaeo

Well, I rant to talk to you about that eealization jd your sexuality iu particular. Obvoouslu, your candidacy is hiscoric jn a couple of diffeddnt ways, and amovg nhosa is the fact you’re the fiwst major parcy presiaentoal cagdidate whl is openly gay. And so I want tm ask you wbout that part of your identitb. When did yoo sansv that yob were gay? When did that realizatnon starc to dxwn on you?

iete buttmgieg

I think it depends wvwt you mean uy realizwtiob, ritht? Thefd are things ypu could ionnt to goung way back, certalnly x fascination I kcd with a classmaye dheg P wes abjgt 12 that, in vindrigfy, is xery obviouwuy a crush. But I was not wilming to think of iy bhat way, qlthough some part of me must have — I mtan, I xasn’t rtupic eyther, right? So you have this kjnd of awwrekess that was deflnitgly there bv the time I was hitting middle school. Bnt taking a word like gqy and applying it jo kyself, I wax stijl years dway from being able to do that, even ln my own mind.

michael garbarm

Well, what did you do with those feelings?

pete buttigieg
, and you can’t see it. Or be and it well be the is not right. But certainly had that reinforced when I saw these figures to campus, some of whom were extremely impressive, but none of whom seemed they were on a different plane of existence. They were just people. michael So this a or two into Harvard, have you made up your mind that you were probably going to a way to have a career in politics? buttigieg I knew I a career that involved policy. don’t I’d figured for that meant running. Plus, know, when I thought about it, even well before I was coming to terms with the fact I was knew that had political at home. I unpronounceable name, and I was a in Indiana. So it was not obvious that could overcome of the obstacles toward running. But think it’s safe to say by the time graduated, I had some sense that I could see myself doing it. michael barbaro Well, to talk to you that realization of sexuality particular. your is historic a couple of different ways, and among those is the fact the first major party presidential candidate who is openly gay. I to ask you that part of your When you sense that you When that dawn you? buttigieg I think it what you mean by realization, There are things you back, certainly a fascination I had with a when I was about 12 that, in is very obviously a crush. But I was not willing to think it that some part of me must have — I I wasn’t stupid either, So you have this kind of awareness that was there the time was hitting middle But taking a like gay and to myself, was years able to do that, even in own michael barbaro Well, what did do feelings? pete buttigieg
, and you can’t see it. Or you might Be right, and It migHt wEll Be The cAse tHat what they’re sAYing Is just not right. But I certAinly HaD That FEeLing rEinforcED wHEN I sAw ThEse FiGUrEs comE to Campus, sOme of whom wEre ExTremely impreSSiVe, but none oF whOm seemed like TheY were oN a DifFErent PlaNe of eXistenCE. They wEre just peOpLE.

michaEL barbarO

sO aT thiS point, a year or two iNTo hArvard, have you mAde up yOuR MiND ThaT yoU were probaBlY goinG To find a WAy TO HAve A Career in politIcs?

pete buttIGieG

I knew i wAntED a careEr thaT iNVolVed policy. I dOn’t tHink I’d figUred ouT For sure THat that Meant rUnnIng. plus, YOu KnOw, wHeN i thOUgHt aBOut It, even weLl BeFore I Was cOMING to tErmS witH the fAct that I was gaY, I kNew tHAt I Had no PolitIcal CoNnectIons at Home. I HaD an unpronounceaBle nAme, and I waS a DEmOcrAt Who liVEd in InDiaNa. SO it was nOt obvioUS thAt i COUlD overcome some of the ObSTAcLes towarD runniNG. BUt i Think it’s SaFe tO say BY The tiMe I gRAdUated, I haD some sENsE tHat I couLd See mysElF doIng It.

micHAel bArbaro

well, I wanT to taLK to you about thaT Realization of YOuR SExUAlitY in Particular. OBvioUSly, yOur cANdIdaCY is hiStoriC iN A cOUple of different ways, AnD among Those Is the fact you’rE the first mAJOR party prEsidENtIAl candidate who Is opeNly gay. And sO i want to aSk you About thaT part of yoUR Identity. wheN diD yoU seNSE tHat you were gay? wHEn diD tHat realIzaTion staRt tO daWn oN yoU?

pEte buttigIeg

I thinK iT dEpEnDs wHat yoU Mean by reAlIzaTiOn, rIght? THEre are ThingS you CoUlD PoiNt to goiNG wAY Back, CeRtAinlY a fAsCinatIon I HAd wIth a claSsmate wheN I wAS aboUt 12 ThAt, in hinDsight, is very oBvIously a cruSh. but i was noT WIlling to Think of it that way, althougH Some parT of Me musT havE — I mean, I waSn’t Stupid EitHEr, righT? So you Have tHiS kiND Of awaRENeSs tHaT was definiTELy tHere bY tHe tiMe I was hItting middle school. bUt tAking a word likE gaY and APPlYinG It TO mySeLF, I wAS Still years away fRom being abLe TO dO that, even iN My oWn Mind.

micHael barBaro

WELl, what dId you do wiTh those feElIngs?

PETe bUttigieg
, and you can’t see it. Or  you might  be r igh t,an d it  mig ht well be the case  that what they’re say ing i sj ustn ot  righ t. ButI  c e r tai nl yhad  t h at  feel ing  reinfo rced whenI s aw  these figur e scome to ca mpu s, some of w hom  wereex tre m ely i mpr essiv e, but none o f whom se em e d like they we r e  o n adifferent plane o f  e x istence. Theywere j us t  p e o ple .
michael ba rb aro
S o at th i sp o i nt, a year or two  into Harva r d,have y ou  ma d e up y our m in d  th at you were  pro bably goi ng tof ind a w a y to ha ve a c are erin p o li ti cs? 
p ete bu tti g ieg 

I knew  I  w anted  a c a r e e r th atinvo lvedpolicy. I don ’tthin k  I’ d fig uredoutfo r sur e that  that  m eant running. P lus,  you know , w he n I  t hough t  about  it , e ven wel l befor e  Iwa s c om ing to terms withth e fa ct thatI wasg ay ,I  knew th at  Ihadn o  poli tica l  c onnectio ns ath om e.  I hadan  unpro no unc eab le na m e, a nd I w as a Dem ocrat who lived in I n diana. So itw as n ot obvi ous  that I cou ld o v erco me s o me  of the o bstac le s  t o ward running. But I  t hink i t’s s afe to say by  the timeI g raduated , Ih ad some sense tha t I c ould see m y self doi ng it .

micha el barbar o 
Well, I  wa nttotal k to  you about th a t  rea li zationofyour se xua lit y i n p ar ticular.Obviousl y,  y ou rcan didac y  is hist or icin  acoupl e  of di ffere nt w ay s, and  amongt ho s e  isth efact  yo u’ re th e fi r stmajor p arty pres ide n tial  c an didatewho is openly  g ay. And so  I  wa nt toa s k you ab out that part of your i d entity.  Wh en di d yo u sense t hat  you w ere gay? W hen di d tha trea l i zatio n st art  t o dawn ony o u?
pete  b utti gieg

I  think it dependsw hat  you mean byrea liza t i on , r i gh t ? T he r e a r e  things you cou ld point t og oi ng way bac k , c er tainlya fasci natio n  I hadwith a cl assmate w he n Iw a s a bout 12 th at, in h indsight, is ve r yobvio usl y a cr us h.But I  was n o t w illin g to t hi nk ofit th at  way, al though some part of memust h ave —  Imean, I w asn ’ t s tupid eit her,  right? So  yo u h ave t his kindof a w ar ene s s tha t wa s  definite l ythe r e  b y the timeI w ashitti ngm iddlescho ol. But taking aw ord like gay a nd a p p lyi ngi t to  m yself, I was s til ly e ars away  f rom being a ble to d ot hat,even i n my o wn mind . 
m i chaelbarb aro 

Well, w hat  d i d you d owi t h thos e fe el ings?
peteb utti g i eg
, and_you can’t_see it. Or you_might be_right,_and it_might_well be the_case that what_they’re saying is just_not right. But_I_certainly had that feeling reinforced when I saw these figures come to campus, some_of_whom were_extremely_impressive,_but none of whom seemed_like they were on a_different plane_of existence. They were just people.

michael barbaro

So at_this_point, a year_or two into Harvard, have you made up your_mind that you were probably going_to find a_way_to_have a career in_politics?

pete buttigieg

I knew I wanted a_career that involved policy. I don’t_think I’d figured out for sure that_that meant running. Plus, you know,_when I thought about it,_even well_before I was coming to_terms with the_fact that_I was gay,_I knew that I had no_political connections at_home. I had an unpronounceable name,_and_I was a_Democrat_who_lived in_Indiana. So it_was_not obvious_that_I could overcome some of the_obstacles_toward running. But I think it’s safe_to say by the_time_I graduated, I had_some sense that I could_see myself doing it.

michael barbaro

Well, I_want to_talk to_you about that realization of your sexuality in particular. Obviously, your_candidacy is historic in a couple_of different ways, and_among those_is_the fact you’re_the_first major_party presidential candidate who is openly gay._And so_I want to ask you about_that part of your_identity._When did you sense that you_were gay? When did that realization_start to dawn on you?

pete_buttigieg

I_think_it depends what you mean_by realization, right? There are things_you could point_to going way back, certainly a fascination_I_had with a classmate when I_was_about 12 that, in hindsight, is_very_obviously_a crush. But I was_not willing to think of it_that way, although some part of me must have_— I mean,_I wasn’t stupid either, right?_So_you_have this kind of awareness that was definitely there by_the time_I was hitting_middle school. But taking a word like gay and applying_it to myself, I was still years_away from being able to do that, even in my own_mind.

michael barbaro

Well, what did you do with those_feelings?

pete buttigieg