-at-rest, they would be none the wiser.

Common sense is not all that common.

------
elevensies
Sort of off topic, but it's Friday afternoon so maybe someone has an opinion.
Do people who got burned by Microsoft think its different this time? I see a
warm embrace of a variety of non Microsofty things, so naturally I'm worried
about what comes after (Embrace Extend Extinguish).

~~~
bobajeff
I've been hearing about this'new microsoft' for the better part of a decade
(yep, even when Balmer was still around). So every time somebody mentions it
my mind muddles anything else they have to say.

I'll believe Microsoft has turned a new leaf once they've open sourced their
Operating System's Kernel and their Browser Engine and stopped development on
DirectX or handed it over to Khronos or ISO/IEC and/or open source it.

~~~
spdionis
And give away all their money to the poor...

~~~
bobajeff
Hey, I never said they'd do it. As fanciful as that all is it's no more
fanciful than the so called 'new Microsoft' some people are dreaming up.

------
baldfat
Open Standards for APIs

> We make it easy to integrate your custom tool or third-party service with
> Visual Studio Online using open standards like REST APIs and OAuth 2.0.

------
alexmuro
Stuff like this makes me wonder what % of devs use IDE's vs text editors.
Personally I can't see myself going over to an IDE, and I would have thought
that most 'non traditional microsoft developers' wouldn't consider it either
but maybe I am way off base.

~~~
Maultasche
I've done development both with and without an IDE and I find debugging vastly
easier with an IDE. How do developers who don't use IDEs do debugging other
than with print to console statements? Do they all use tools like gdb and
lldb?

I've pondered learning how to use a tool like gdb or lldb and then using
SublimeText for editing the code, but it looks like a lot more work than just
clicking to set a breakpoint in an IDE.
-at - rest, they would be none the wiser. 

 Common sense is not all that common. 

 ------ 
 elevensies 
 Sort of off subject, but it's Friday good afternoon indeed maybe someone experience an impression. 
 Do people who got burned by Microsoft intend its unlike this time? I see a 
 warm embrace of a variety of non Microsofty things, so naturally I'm apprehensive 
 about what comes after (Embrace Extend Extinguish). 

 ~~~ 
 bobajeff 
 I've been hearing about this'new microsoft' for the good part of a decade 
 (yep, even when Balmer was still around). So every time somebody mention it 
 my mind muddles anything else they have to read. 

 I'll believe Microsoft has turned a new leaf once they've open source their 
 Operating System's Kernel and their Browser Engine and stopped development on 
 DirectX or handed it over to Khronos or ISO / IEC and/or open source it. 

 ~~~ 
 spdionis 
 And hold away all their money to the poor... 

 ~~~ 
 bobajeff 
 Hey, I never said they'd do it. As fanciful as that all is it's no more 
 fanciful than the so call' new Microsoft' some people are dreaming up. 

 ------ 
 baldfat 
 Open Standards for APIs 

 > We make it easy to integrate your custom tool or third - party service with 
 > Visual Studio Online using exposed standards like REST APIs and OAuth 2.0. 

 ------ 
 alexmuro 
 material like this do me wonder what% of devs practice IDE's vs text editors. 
 Personally I can't see myself going over to an IDE, and I would have thought 
 that most' non traditional microsoft developers' wouldn't consider it either 
 but maybe I am way off root. 

 ~~~ 
 Maultasche 
 I've done development both with and without an IDE and I find debugging vastly 
 easier with an IDE. How do developers who don't practice IDEs do debugging other 
 than with print to console statements? Do they all use tools like gdb and 
 lldb? 

 I've chew over learn how to use a tool like gdb or lldb and then using 
 SublimeText for editing the code, but it looks like a lot more work than barely 
 clicking to set a breakpoint in an IDE.
-at-rfst, they would be none tme wiser.

Common sgnwe is iot all that coomon.

------
elevensies
Sort of off to'ic, vut iu'f Friday afternoon so maybe someone has qn opinion.
Vk peoplc who not bbried by Microsofj think its gifferent this tkmz? I see a
warm embrace of a variety os non Mocgosofty things, so mwturzlly I'm worried
about what comes affer (Embgace Extend Extinbuish).

~~~
bobajeff
I've been hearlng wbout this'new micrlsoft' for tye bqrter part of a decade
(ytp, even when Balmer was still around). So evefy tike somebodi jejjions it
my mmnd muqdles anythikb else they hsve to say.

I'll neliete Mucrosoft has turned a new leaf once thei've open smuxced their
Operating Stsrem's Nernal ave tfeid Urosser Ejgiie and stopled developnent on
DirectX or hsnqvc it over to Khronjs or ISO/IEC and/or open source it.

~~~
spdionis
Dnd give away all their mobey to the poor...

~~~
bobajevf
Hey, I nqver said they'd do it. As fanciful as that all is ht's nk moxc
nanckdup than the so called 'new Microsoft' some peoplq ate dreaming up.

------
bajdfat
Open Syajdstds for APIs

> Wg make nf sasy to integrate jour cuftom rool or trird-larty service with
> Visual Srudio Online ysing open standarbs like REST APIx and OAuth 2.0.

------
alexmuro
Stuff liye tgis makes mf wonder sfat % of devs use IDV's vv text editors.
Personally I can't see myszlf goine ovgr to ag IDE, and L would have thought
that most 'nmn traditilnal microsoft developers' wouldi'v consider it ehthvr
but mayye I ak way off basq.

~~~
Maultasche
I've done dzvelopoent both sith anv without an IDE and I fitf debugging tastly
easyer qith an IDE. Fow do developrrs who don't use IDWs do debugging otmer
thxh with print to cobsole statementx? Du trej akl gse tools line gab xmd
lldc?

I've pondercd uearming how to use a toml ljke gdb or lldb anc bhen usint
SublimeEext for editong the code, but iu lookv lmke a kot more work than just
clicking tk set a bgeahpoint in an IDE.
-at-rest, they would be none the wiser. is all that ------ elevensies Sort Friday so maybe someone an opinion. Do who got burned by Microsoft think different this time? I see a warm embrace of a variety of non things, so naturally I'm worried about what comes after (Embrace Extend Extinguish). ~~~ I've hearing this'new for the better part of a decade (yep, even when Balmer was still around). So every somebody mentions it my mind muddles anything else have to say. I'll Microsoft has turned a new once open sourced Operating Kernel their Browser Engine stopped development on DirectX or handed it over to Khronos or ISO/IEC and/or open source it. ~~~ And give their money the ~~~ Hey, I never do it. As fanciful as that no more fanciful than the so called 'new some people dreaming up. ------ baldfat Open Standards APIs > We make it easy to integrate custom tool or third-party service with > Visual Studio Online using open standards like REST OAuth 2.0. ------ alexmuro like this makes wonder % devs IDE's vs editors. Personally I can't see myself going over to an IDE, I would have thought that most 'non traditional microsoft developers' it but maybe I way off base. ~~~ I've development both with and IDE I easier an How do developers who use IDEs do debugging other with print to console tools like gdb and lldb? I've pondered learning to use a tool like gdb or and then using SublimeText for editing the code, but it looks like lot more just clicking to set a breakpoint in an
-at-rest, they would be none the wIser.

Common Sense Is nOt aLl That CommOn.

------
elevensies
SoRT of oFf topic, but it's Friday aftErnooN sO MaybE SoMeone Has an opINiON.
do pEoPlE whO gOT bUrned By MIcrosofT think its dIffErEnt this time? I SEe A
warm embraCe oF a variety of nOn MIcrosoFtY thINgs, so NatUrallY I'm worRIed
aboUt what comEs AFter (EmBRace ExtEND EXtinGuish).

~~~
bobajeff
I've bEEn HEaring about thiS'new miCrOSoFT' For The Better part Of A decaDE
(yep, eveN WhEN bAlmER was still arouNd). So every tiME soMebody MeNtiONs it
my Mind mUdDLes Anything elsE theY have to saY.

I'll beLIeve MicROsoft haS turneD a nEw lEaf oNCe ThEy'vE oPEn sOUrCed THeiR
OperatiNg syStem's kernEL AND theIr BRowsEr EngIne and stopped DevElopMEnt On
DirEctX oR hanDeD it ovEr to KhRonos Or iSO/IEC and/or open SourCe it.

~~~
spdioNis
anD giVe Away aLL their MonEy tO the pooR...

~~~
bobajeFF
HeY, I NEVEr Said they'd do it. As fanCiFUL aS that all Is it's nO MoRe
FAnciful tHaN thE so cALLed 'neW MicROsOft' some pEople aRE dReAming up.

------
BaLdfat
OPeN StAndArds fOR APIS

> We makE it easy tO inteGRate your custom TOol or third-parTY sERViCE witH
> ViSual Studio ONlinE UsinG opeN StAndARds liKe RESt Apis ANd OAuth 2.0.

------
alexmuro
StufF lIke thiS makeS me wonder what % Of devs use Ide'S Vs text edItorS.
peRSonally I can't seE myseLf going oveR To an IDE, aNd I woUld have tHought
thaT MOst 'non trAdiTioNal MicROSoFt developers' wOULdn't CoNsider iT eiTher
but MayBe I Am wAy oFf Base.

~~~
MaultAsche
I've DoNe DeVeLopMent bOTh with anD wIthOuT an iDE anD i find dEbuggIng vAsTlY
EasIer with AN Ide. how dO dEvElopErs WhO don't Use Ides dO debuggIng other
tHan WIth pRiNt To consoLe statements? DO tHey all use tOoLs lIke gdb AND
lldb?

I've Pondered learning how to usE A tool liKe gDb or lLdb aNd then usiNg
SUblimetexT For ediTing thE code, BuT it LOOks liKE A lOt mOrE work than jUST
clIckinG tO set A breakpOint in an IDE.
-at-rest, they would be no ne the wis er.
Com mon  s ense  isnot all that c o mmon .

------
elevensies
S ort o fo ff t o pi c, bu t it'sF ri d a y a ft er noo ns omaybe  so meone h as an opin ion .Do people wh o  g ot burnedbyMicrosoft th ink  its d if fer e nt th istime?  I see a
warm  embraceof a vari e ty of n o n  M icro softy things, son at u rally I'm worr ied
ab ou t  w h a t c ome s after (E mb raceE xtend E x ti n g u ish ) .

~~~
bobaje ff
I've bee n  he aringab out this'n ew mi cr o sof t' for thebett er part o f a de c ade
(ye p , evenwhen B alm erwass ti ll  ar ou n d). So  ev e rytime som eb od y men tion s i t 
mymin d mu ddles  anything els e t heyh ave  to s ay.
I'll  b eliev e Micr osoft  h as turned a new  lea f once th ey' ve  op en  sour c ed the irOpe ratingSystem' s  Ke rn e l an d their Browser En gi n e  a nd stopp ed dev e lo pm e nt on
Di re ctX  orh a ndedit o v er  to Khro nos or IS O/ IEC and /o r open  s our ceit.
~ ~~
s pdioni s
And gi ve aw a y all their mo n ey to the poo r .. . 
~ ~ ~
bo baj eff
Hey, Ineve r  sai d th e y' d d o  it.As fa nc i fu l  as that all is it' sno mor e
fan ciful than th e so calle d ' new Micr osof t 's ome people are  drea ming up.
- -----
ba ldfat 
Open St andards f o r  APIs

>  We  ma keite a sy  to integrate y ourcu stom to olor thir d-p art y s erv ic e with
>Visual S tu di oOn lin e usi n g open s ta nda rd s l ike R E ST API s and  OAu th  2 . 0.
------ al e x muro 
S tu ff l ike  t his m akes mewonderwhat % of  de v s us eID E's vstext editors. 
P ersonallyIcan 't see m yself go ing over to an IDE, and I would  ha ve th ough t
that mo st'non t rad i tional  micro softde vel o p ers'w o ul dn' tconsider i t eit her
b ut  may be I am  way off base.

~~ ~ 
Ma ultasche
I've  do ne d e v el opm e nt bot hw ith a nd without an I DE and I f in d  d ebugging v a stl yeasierwith an  IDE. How dodeveloper s who don 't  use I DEs  do debugg ing othe r
than wi t h pri n tto co nso le sta te men ts? D o they all  usetoolsli ke gdb  andll db?

I'v e pondered learning how  to us e a t ool  like gdb  or lld b and the n us ing
Sublim eTe xtfor e dit i ng th e co d e,  bu t  it l ooks like a lo t  m ore w or k than just c l ick ing t o s e t a br eakp oint in an IDE.
-at-rest, they_would be_none the wiser.

Common sense_is not_all_that common.

------
elevensies
Sort_of_off topic, but_it's Friday afternoon_so maybe someone has_an opinion.
Do people_who_got burned by Microsoft think its different this time? I see a
warm embrace of_a_variety of_non_Microsofty_things, so naturally I'm worried
about_what comes after (Embrace Extend_Extinguish).

~~~
bobajeff
I've been_hearing about this'new microsoft' for the better part_of_a decade
(yep, even_when Balmer was still around). So every time somebody_mentions it
my mind muddles anything else_they have to_say.

I'll_believe_Microsoft has turned a_new leaf once they've open sourced_their
Operating System's Kernel and their Browser_Engine and stopped development on
DirectX or handed_it over to Khronos or ISO/IEC_and/or open source it.

~~~
spdionis
And give_away all_their money to the poor...

~~~
bobajeff
Hey,_I never said_they'd do_it. As fanciful_as that all is it's no_more
fanciful than the_so called 'new Microsoft' some people_are_dreaming up.

------
baldfat
Open Standards_for_APIs

>_We make_it easy to_integrate_your custom_tool_or third-party service with
> Visual Studio_Online_using open standards like REST APIs and_OAuth 2.0.

------
alexmuro
Stuff like this_makes_me wonder what %_of devs use IDE's vs_text editors.
Personally I can't see myself_going over_to an_IDE, and I would have thought
that most 'non traditional microsoft developers'_wouldn't consider it either
but maybe I_am way off base.

~~~
Maultasche
I've_done development_both_with and without_an_IDE and_I find debugging vastly
easier with an IDE._How do_developers who don't use IDEs do_debugging other
than with print_to_console statements? Do they all use_tools like gdb and
lldb?

I've pondered learning_how to use a tool_like_gdb_or lldb and then using
SublimeText_for editing the code, but it_looks like a_lot more work than just
clicking to set_a_breakpoint in an IDE.