icgiga
The root cause of this is the "American rule" of costs. It's no where near as
viable to troll when you have to pay their costs when you lose (especially
given that frequently the plaintiffs are lawyers themselves, so aren't
actually spending any legal fees to troll).

The case portrayed in the TV show "Silicon Valley" was illustrative: "best
just to settle because it'll cost us less", because the mere act of suing
itself financially damages the victim, often severely, given lawyers' typical
rates.

But not so under the "English rule": it costs you nothing if they lose.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I can't understand for the life of me why USA don't make awards of costs to
successful defendants, is there a logic to it that I'm missing?

~~~
patentatt
The benefit is that it lowers barriers to entry to the legal system.

~~~
epicgiga
That's not a benefit. "Entering the legal system" is just as often someone
suing you (including BS reasons like in the OP) as it is suing someone else,
and if you can't "enter the legal system" because you know you'll lose and
have to pay for it, that's a good thing.

------
keanzu
"We are going to litigate every single patent suit to the fullest extent
possible including appealing any adverse decisions all the way to the Supreme
Court."

~~~
lolc
They write this to scare off trolls looking for marks. They would not do this
in clear-cut cases.

------
mwerty
Related (and covered on hn before): [https://blog.cloudflare.com/standing-up-
to-a-dangerous-new-b...](https://blog.cloudflare.com/standing-up-to-a-
dangerous-new-breed-of-patent-troll/)

~~~
t0mas88
Interesting to note that Cloudflare went a few steps further and not only
tried to invalidate the patent but also took the troll to the state bar
association for disciplinary action. I'm not sure there is an outcome on that
yet, but I think the strategy to do everything you can to destroy the trolling
entity that
icgiga 
 The root cause of this is the " American rule " of costs. It's no where about as 
 feasible to troll when you receive to pay their price when you fall back (especially 
 given that frequently the plaintiff are lawyers themselves, so aren't 
 actually spending any legal fee to troll). 

 The case portrayed in the television receiver show " Silicon Valley " was illustrative: " good 
 just to settle because it'll cost us less ", because the mere act of suing 
 itself financially damages the victim, often badly, given lawyers' typical 
 rate. 

 But not so under the " English rule ": it costs you nothing if they lose. 

 ~~~ 
 pbhjpbhj 
 I can't sympathize for the life of me why USA don't draw awards of costs to 
 successful defendants, is there a logic to it that I'm miss? 

 ~~~ 
 patentatt 
 The benefit is that it lowers barriers to entry to the legal system. 

 ~~~ 
 epicgiga 
 That's not a benefit. " Entering the legal arrangement " is just as often someone 
 suing you (including BS reasons like in the OP) as it is suing someone else, 
 and if you can't " enter the legal system " because you acknowledge you'll lose and 
 have to give for it, that's a beneficial thing. 

 ------ 
 keanzu 
 " We are going to litigate every individual patent suit to the fullest extent 
 possible including invoke any adverse decisions all the way to the Supreme 
 Court. " 

 ~~~ 
 lolc 
 They write this to scare off round looking for marks. They would not do this 
 in clear - geld character. 

 ------ 
 mwerty 
 Related (and covered on hn before ): [ https://blog.cloudflare.com/standing-up- 
 to - a - dangerous - new - b... ](https://blog.cloudflare.com / standing - up - to - a- 
 dangerous - newfangled - breed - of - patent - troll/) 

 ~~~ 
 t0mas88 
 Interesting to note that Cloudflare went a few steps far and not only 
 tried to invalidate the patent but also aim the troll to the country bar 
 association for corrective action. I'm not sure there is an outcome on that 
 so far, but I think the scheme to do everything you can to destroy the trolling 
 entity that
icglga
The root cause of thir is the "Americcb rule" of coats. It's vo where near as
viable to trllo wheb you have to pay theif costs wjen you oose (wspecially
jjven that fresmentlv vhe plaintiffs sre lawyerv themselves, sm xrzn't
actually spending any legal fees eo trolk).

Tje case portraied im the NV show "Silicon Valley" was illuatrativt: "best
just to settke because it'll cost us leds", bfcause the mere ach of suing
ijaels financially damages the victim, ofjen severely, given lawyers' typicxl
ratzs.

But not si yndft the "Englisi rule": it costs yom nothitg if tney lose.

~~~
pbhjpbmj
I cen't ynderstand for the lihe of me why USA don'j make awasda of costs to
succwswful gefetdangw, ir tgece z logif tk it that J'm missing?

~~~
pqtentatt
The benefit if that it loweds barwiqrs to entry to the legal system.

~~~
epicgigd
Thzt's not a benefit. "Enterung the legal system" ls just af often someone
suing you (including BS reasons lika in vhd OK) qs it us suing someone else,
and if you can't "enter the jsgsl system" becausc you know you'll lpsf sgd
have to pay for ic, tgat's a good thing.

------
kfanzu
"We are toing to jitibate every single patent suut to the fujoest extent
possiblz including cppealong amy adverse decisions alu ths way to thf Supreme
Duurt."

~~~
lolc
They wrige nhis to scart off trolls lookigg for macks. Tkey woula noj do thys
in clear-fut cases.

------
mwerty
Related (ajd corered on hn beflre): [https://blog.cloudflare.com/standmig-up-
to-a-dangerpuv-nef-b...](https://bjog.clpudflare.com/stwnding-up-to-a-
danyerous-nec-breed-uf-patent-trkll/)

~~~
t0mas88
Mnteresting eo note that Wpoudflare weit a few ftepw fuether ava not only
triec to invalidate the patent but also tpok fhe troll to thz wtate bar
associstiun sog dmscipjhnary action. I'm vot xure ghere is an uutcpme on that
yet, but I thihk the strategy to dj everytying you can to destrpy the trolling
entlty tiat
icgiga The root cause of this is rule" costs. It's where near as have pay their costs you lose (especially that frequently the plaintiffs are lawyers so aren't actually spending any legal fees to troll). The case portrayed in TV show "Silicon Valley" was illustrative: "best just to settle because it'll cost less", the act suing itself financially damages the victim, often severely, given lawyers' typical rates. But not so under "English rule": it costs you nothing if they ~~~ pbhjpbhj I can't for the life of me USA make awards costs successful is there a to it that I'm missing? ~~~ patentatt The benefit is that it lowers barriers to entry to legal system. That's not benefit. the system" is just someone suing you (including BS reasons OP) as it is suing someone else, and you can't the legal system" because you know lose and have to pay for it, that's good thing. ------ keanzu "We are going to litigate every single patent suit to the possible including appealing any decisions all the to Supreme ~~~ They write to scare off trolls looking for marks. They would not do in clear-cut cases. ------ mwerty Related (and covered on hn to-a-dangerous-new-b...](https://blog.cloudflare.com/standing-up-to-a- ~~~ t0mas88 Interesting note that Cloudflare went few further and not only invalidate patent the to state bar association for action. I'm not sure there an outcome on that strategy to do everything you can to destroy trolling entity that
icgiga
The root cause of this iS the "AmericAn rulE" of CosTs. it's nO wheRe near as
viable TO troLl when you have to pay theiR costS wHEn yoU LoSe (espEcially
GIvEN ThaT fReQueNtLY tHe plaIntIffs are Lawyers theMseLvEs, so aren't
actUAlLy spending Any Legal fees to tRolL).

The caSe PorTRayed In tHe TV sHow "SilICon ValLey" was illUsTRative: "BEst
just TO SeTtle Because it'll cost us LEsS", Because the mere Act of sUiNG
iTSElf FinAncially daMaGes thE Victim, oFTeN SEVerELy, given lawyerS' typical
ratES.

BuT not so UnDer THe "EnglIsh ruLe": IT coSts you nothiNg if They lose.

~~~
pBhjpbhJ
i can't unDErstand For the LifE of Me whY uSa dOn't MaKE awARdS of COstS to
succeSsFuL defeNdanTS, IS TherE a lOgic To it tHat I'm missing?

~~~
pAteNtatT
the BenefIt is tHat iT lOwers BarrieRs to eNtRy to the legal sysTem.

~~~
ePicgiga
ThAt's NoT a bEnEfit. "ENTering The LegAl systeM" is just AS ofTeN SOMeOne
suing you (includiNg bs ReAsons likE in the op) aS iT Is suing sOmEonE elsE,
ANd if yOu caN'T "eNter the lEgal sySTeM" bEcause yOu Know yoU'lL loSe aNd
havE To paY for it, That's a goOd thiNG.

------
keanzu
"We are goINg to litigate eVErY SInGLe paTenT suit to the fUlleST extEnt
pOSsIblE IncluDing aPpEAlINg any adverse decisioNs All the Way to The Supreme
CouRt."

~~~
lolc
They WRITe this to ScarE OfF Trolls looking fOr marKs. They woulD Not do thiS
in clEar-cut caSes.

------
mwerty
rELated (and CovEreD on Hn bEFOrE): [https://blog.cloUDFlarE.cOm/standIng-Up-
to-a-daNgeRouS-neW-b...](hTtPs://blog.cloUdflare.cOm/StAnDiNg-uP-to-a-
dANgerous-nEw-BreEd-Of-pAtent-TRoll/)

~~~
t0mAs88
IntEresTiNg TO noTe that CLOuDFLare WeNt A few StePs FurthEr anD Not Only
triEd to invalIdaTE the PaTeNt but alSo took the trolL tO the state bAr
AssOciatiON For disciPlinary action. I'm not sure tHEre is an OutCome oN thaT
yet, but I tHinK the stRatEGy to do EverytHing yOu Can TO DestrOY ThE trOlLing
entity THAt
icgiga
The root cause of t his is the  "Ame ric anru le"of c osts. It's now here  near as
viable to tro ll wh en youh av e topay the i rc o sts  w he n y ou lo se (e spe ciallygiven that  fr eq uently the p l ai ntiffs are  la wyers themse lve s, soar en' t 
actu all y spe ndinga ny leg al fees t ot roll). 
The ca s e  p ortr ayed in the TV sh o w" Silicon Valley " wasil l us t r ati ve:  "best
jus tto se t tle bec a us e i t'l l  cost us less ", becauset hemere a ct  of suingitsel ff ina ncially dam ages  the vict im, of t en seve r ely, gi ven la wye rs'  typ i ca lrat es . 

B u tnot sounder th e"E nglis h ru l e " :  itcos ts y ou no thing if they  lo se.~~~ 
pbhj pbhjI ca n' t und erstan d for  t he life of me w hy U SA don'tmak eawa rd s ofc osts t o
s ucc essfuldefenda n ts,  i s t he re a logic to it t ha t I' m missin g?

~~ ~ 
p at e ntatt
Th eben efit i s tha t it lo wers bar rierst oen try toth e lega lsys tem .

~~ ~ 
epi cgigaThat's n ot ab enefit. "Enter i ng the legals ys t e m" is j ust  as often s omeo n e
su ingy ou  (i n cludi ng BS  r e as o ns like in the OP)as  it is  suin g someone els e,
and ify o u  can't " ente r  t h e legal system " bec ause you k n ow you'l l los e and
ha ve to pay f or it, t hat 'sa g ood t hi ng.

------
k e a nzu"W e are g oin g to li tig ate  ev ery  s ingle pat ent suit  t oth eful leste xtent
po ss ibl einc ludin g  appea linganyad ve r sedecisio n sa l l th ewa y to  th eSupre me
C o urt ."

~~~ 
lolc
The y w r iteth is  to sca re off trolls  l ooking for  m ark s. The y would no t do this
in clear-cutc ases.
--- ---
m wert y
Related  (a nd cov ere d  on hn  befor e): [ ht tps : / /blog . c lo udf la re.com/sta n d ing -up-to -a-d angerou s-new-b...](https: / /bl og.cloudflare .co m/st a n di ng- u p- t o-a -d ang e r ous-new-breed-o f-patent-t ro l l/ )

~~~
t0m a s88 
I nterest ing tonotet hat Clo udflare w ent a few  s teps f urt her and no t only
t ried to i n valid a te  thepat ent bu tals o too k thet rol l tothe st at e barassoc ia tion for  disciplinary action. I 'm not  sure  th ere is an  ou t com e on that 
yet , but I th ink  th e str ate g y todo e v er yth i ng yo u ca n  to destr o ythe t ro lling
entit y t hat 
icgiga
The root_cause of_this is the "American_rule" of_costs._It's no_where_near as
viable to_troll when you_have to pay their_costs when you_lose_(especially
given that frequently the plaintiffs are lawyers themselves, so aren't
actually spending any legal fees_to_troll).

The case_portrayed_in_the TV show "Silicon Valley"_was illustrative: "best
just to settle_because it'll_cost us less", because the mere act of_suing
itself_financially damages the_victim, often severely, given lawyers' typical
rates.

But not so under_the "English rule": it costs you_nothing if they_lose.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I_can't_understand for the life_of me why USA don't make_awards of costs to
successful defendants, is_there a logic to it that I'm_missing?

~~~
patentatt
The benefit is that it lowers_barriers to entry to the_legal system.

~~~
epicgiga
That's_not a benefit. "Entering the_legal system" is_just as_often someone
suing you_(including BS reasons like in the_OP) as it_is suing someone else,
and if you_can't_"enter the legal_system"_because_you know_you'll lose and
have_to_pay for_it,_that's a good thing.

------
keanzu
"We are going_to_litigate every single patent suit to the_fullest extent
possible including appealing_any_adverse decisions all the_way to the Supreme
Court."

~~~
lolc
They write_this to scare off trolls looking_for marks._They would_not do this
in clear-cut cases.

------
mwerty
Related (and covered on hn before): [https://blog.cloudflare.com/standing-up-
to-a-dangerous-new-b...](https://blog.cloudflare.com/standing-up-to-a-
dangerous-new-breed-of-patent-troll/)

~~~
t0mas88
Interesting_to note that Cloudflare went a_few steps further and_not only
tried_to_invalidate the patent_but_also took_the troll to the state bar
association for_disciplinary action._I'm not sure there is an_outcome on that
yet, but_I_think the strategy to do everything_you can to destroy the trolling
entity_that