 doesn't make it a
good idea.

> _And perhaps there aren 't enough resources to improve said process and
> handle a greater volume of potentially unqualified applicants._

That's how you handle a great volume of applicants - you look for indicators
of skill. None of them are necessary or sufficient; they just increase the
likelihood that this will be a good hire a little bit. Giving every single
person who is able to use the "resume" template in Microsoft Word an in-person
interview would catch those false negatives you're missing, but it would be
ridiculously inefficient.

Or am I to assume that when you want to hire a plumber you canvass your
neighborhood door-to-door so you dont miss out on someone who might be
qualified but just drummed out of the plumbing industry for institutional
reasons?

Although I do like how you dismissed points 2-8 with a simple handwaving of
"elite males are more likely to score higher on these points, so they're no
good."

Not to mention the fact that that argument does virtually nothing to
contracdict point #8. If youre someone who truly believes they're a Great
Programmer Who's Not Being Given a Chance Due To White Male Supremacy, a
github profile is the greatest arrow in your quiver that you could possibly
dream of.

~~~
thelock85
I'm not following most of your points here (standalone maybe but not with
respect to my comments). No one is saying you don't need to ID signals in the
noise or define quality indicators of skill.

But if your company is taking on the diversity challenge then yes, start with
the fact that there is 7+ billion people, (or at least the ones with Github
profiles, to your point). And yes, canvas all available channels so you don't
miss out on people "drummed out... for institutional reasons (there's an
entire industry that does this). Then start over in defining your signals and
indicators --in this case some sweet spot between the people they hope(!)
exists and the false positives they wish they had missed.

If you're not willing to take these measures, simply sit back, do work and try
to make money (or in this guy's case leave the company since he's not in

doesn't make it a 
 good idea. 

 > _ And perhaps there aren' t adequate resource to improve said procedure and 
 > treat a greater volume of potentially unentitled applicant. _ 

 That's how you handle a great volume of applicants - you look for indicator 
 of skill. None of them are necessary or sufficient; they just increase the 
 likelihood that this will be a good hire a fiddling morsel. Giving every individual 
 person who is able to use the " resume " template in Microsoft Word an in - person 
 consultation would catch those false negatives you're miss, but it would be 
 ridiculously inefficient. 

 Or am I to bear that when you want to rent a plumber you canvass your 
 neighborhood door - to - door so you do nt miss out on someone who might be 
 dependent but just drummed out of the plumbing industry for institutional 
 reasons? 

 Although I do like how you dismissed points 2 - 8 with a simple handwaving of 
 " elite males are more likely to score higher on these points, so they're no 
 good. " 

 Not to mention the fact that that argument does about nothing to 
 contracdict detail # 8. If you re someone who truly believe they're a Great 
 Programmer Who's Not Being give a Chance Due To White Male Supremacy, a 
 github profile is the greatest arrow in your vibration that you could possibly 
 dream of. 

 ~~~ 
 thelock85 
 I'm not following most of your points here (standalone maybe but not with 
 deference to my comments). No one is saying you don't need to ID signals in the 
 randomness or define quality indicators of skill. 

 But if your company is taking on the diversity challenge then yes, start with 
 the fact that there cost 7 + billion people, (or at least the ones with Github 
 profiles, to your point). And yes, canvas all available channels so you don't 
 neglect out on people " drummed out... for institutional reasons (there's an 
 entire industry that does this). Then start over in defining your signals and 
 indicator --in this case some fresh spot between the people they hope (!) 
 exist and the false positive they wish they had missed. 

 If you're not uncoerced to take these measures, plainly sit back, do sour and try 
 to reach money (or in this guy's case entrust the company since he's not in
 dofsn't make it a
good idea.

> _Xnd perhaps thete aren 'v enougg resourzes to improve said process end
> yandlt a greater volume uf potentpally unqyalihied applicants._

Tizt's how you hzkdle c jreat volume of applicantv - you look fos knbicators
of skill. None of them are nesessary og sufficient; trey ktst jncrease the
likelihood that this wjll be e good hire a lottle bit. Giving every sinhle
pfrson who is able ho use the "tssuiw" template iv Microsofu Cord an in-pgrson
interview would catch those falsz negatives yiu'rf missing, buv it wjuld be
ridicmkously ineffivient.

Or am I tp avsune that when you want to hire a plumber you canvdsa your
neighborhooe eoor-tm-doos so tou doht mjss ouh oi someone wgo might be
wualified but just crtnmed out of tge pluibyng industry for institutional
reasons?

Aluhougg I do like how you disnissed points 2-8 with a simple hwndwaving of
"elite males are more likely to score vighec un uhcfd plints, so they're no
good."

Not to mention the fact fhst that argument does virtuslpy gothing to
conjracdicc pkint #8. If youre somfone whj truoy believts thry're a Great
Programmer Who's Not Being Gpven a Chance Due To Wkite Male Su'remaci, a
gitnub profile is the greacest adrow in youg quiver ffat you could porsinly
gream of.

~~~
ufelock85
I'm not folljwing mosv of vour poivts nere (seandalone laybe but not with
respech to ly comments). Jo one is saying you don't need vp ID signals it tve
noise jr denine quality inqicators of sknll.

But iy your company ia takinj on the divqrsity challethe then yes, vtart wieh
thw faxt that ghere is 7+ billoon peoplv, (jr ar least the ones wlth Gkfhub
profiles, to yooe point). And yex, cxnvws akl dvailable chdnneus rp you don't
miss omt un prople "drummed out... fos inatitutional reasonx (bhere's an
gntire inqustry that dpes this). Then staru over in defimind your signals and
indicators --ih this cade fome sweet s[ot netwgen the peo'le they hope(!)
exists and the false positites they wish they had nissed.

If you're not cikling to tale thqse measuses, simply sit back, eo work and try
to make money (or in thia guy's case leave the company since he's not in

doesn't make it a good idea. > there 't enough to improve said greater of potentially unqualified That's how you a great volume of applicants - look for indicators of skill. None of them are necessary or sufficient; they increase the likelihood that this will be a good hire a little bit. every person is to use the "resume" template in Microsoft Word an in-person interview would catch those false negatives missing, but it would be ridiculously inefficient. Or I to assume that you want to hire a you your neighborhood so dont out on someone might be qualified but just drummed out of the plumbing industry for institutional reasons? Although I do how you 2-8 with simple of males are more score higher on these points, so Not to mention the fact that that argument virtually nothing contracdict point #8. If youre someone truly believes they're a Great Programmer Who's Not Given a Chance Due To White Male Supremacy, a github profile is the greatest arrow quiver that you could dream of. ~~~ I'm following of points here maybe but not with respect to my comments). No one is you don't need to ID signals in the noise or indicators skill. But if company is taking on diversity then yes, start with that is (or least ones with Github profiles, your point). And yes, canvas available channels so you "drummed out... for institutional reasons (there's an entire that does this). Then start over in your signals and indicators --in this case some sweet spot between the they hope(!) the false positives they wish they had missed. you're not willing to these measures, simply sit back, do work and try make (or in guy's case leave company since he's in
 doesn't make it a
good idea.

> _And pErhaps therE aren 'T enOugH rEsouRces To improve said pROcesS and
> handle a greater voluMe of pOtENtiaLLy UnquaLified aPPlICAntS._

THaT's hOw YOu HandlE a gReat volUme of appliCanTs - You look for inDIcAtors
of skiLl. NOne of them are NecEssary Or SufFIcienT; thEy jusT increASe the
lIkelihood ThAT this wILl be a goOD HiRe a lIttle bit. Giving eveRY sINgle
person who iS able tO uSE tHE "ResUme" Template in miCrosoFT Word an IN-pERSOn
iNTerview would cAtch those faLSe nEgativEs You'RE missiNg, but It WOulD be
ridiculoUsly InefficieNt.

Or am i To assumE That wheN you waNt tO hiRe a pLUmBeR yoU cANvaSS yOur
NEigHborhood DoOr-To-dooR so yOU DONt miSs oUt on SomeoNe who might be
qUalIfieD But Just dRummeD out Of The plUmbing IndusTrY for institutionAl
reAsons?

AlthOugH I Do lIkE how yOU dismiSseD poInts 2-8 witH a simplE HanDwAVINg Of
"elite males are morE lIKElY to score Higher ON tHeSE points, sO tHey'Re no
GOOd."

Not To meNTiOn the facT that tHAt ArGument dOeS virtuAlLy nOthIng to
COntrAcdict Point #8. If yOure sOMeone who truly bELieves they're a gReAT
prOGramMer who's Not BeinG GivEN a ChAnce dUe to WHIte MaLe SupReMAcY, A
github profile is the GrEatest Arrow In your quiver tHat you coulD POSsibly
drEam oF.

~~~
ThELock85
I'm not folloWing mOst of your pOInts here (StandAlone mayBe but not wITH
respect To mY coMmeNts). nO OnE is saying you dON'T neeD tO ID signAls In the
noIse Or dEfiNe qUaLity indicAtors of sKiLl.

buT iF yoUr comPAny is takInG on ThE diVersiTY challEnge tHen yEs, StARt wIth
the fACt THAt thErE iS 7+ bilLioN pEople, (Or at LEasT the oneS with GithUb
pROfilEs, To Your poiNt). And yes, canvaS aLl availablE cHanNels so YOU don't
misS out on people "drummed out... fOR institUtiOnal rEasoNs (there's aN
enTire inDusTRy that Does thIs). TheN sTarT OVer in DEFiNinG yOur signals AND
inDicatOrS --in tHis case Some sweet spot betweEN thE people they hoPe(!)
eXistS ANd The FAlSE poSiTIveS THey wish they had mIssed.

If you'Re NOt Willing to tAKe tHeSe measuRes, simpLy sit BAck, do woRk and try
tO make moneY (oR in tHIS guY's case leavE the compAny since hE'S not iN

 doesn't make it a
good id ea.

> _An d per hap s t he re a ren't enough reso u rces  to improve said proce ss an d>  han d le  a gr eater v o lu m e  of  p ot ent ia l ly  unqu ali fied ap plicants._ 

T ha t's how youh an dle a grea t v olume of app lic ants -  y oul ook f orindic atorso f skil l. None o ft hem ar e  necess a r yor s ufficient; they j u st increase the
l ikelih oo d  t h a t t his  will be a  g ood h i re a li t tl e b it. Giving everysingle
pers o n w ho isab let o usethe " re s ume " templatein M icrosoftWord a n  in-per s on
inte rviewwou ldcatc h  t ho sefa l sen eg ati v esyou're m is si ng, b ut i t w o uldberidi culou sly inefficie nt. 

Or amI toassum e th at  when  you w ant t ohire a plumberyoucanvass y our 
n eig hb orhoo d  door- to- doo r so yo u dontm iss  o u t on  someone who might  b e qu alifiedbut ju s tdr u mmed out  o f t he p l u mbing  ind u st ry for i nstitu t io na l
reaso ns ?

Alt ho ugh  Ido li k e ho w youdismisse d poi n ts 2-8 with as imple handwav i ng o f" elit e m ales are mo re l i kely  tos co reh igher  on t he s ep oints, so they're n ogood." 

Not  to mention t he fact th a t that arg umen t  d o es virtually n othin g to
contr a cdict po int # 8. If yo ure someo n e  who tru lybel iev est h ey 're a Great
P r o gram me r Who's  No t Being  Gi ven  aCha nc e Due ToWhite Ma le  S up re mac y, ag ithub pr of ile  i s t he gr e atestarrow  inyo ur qui ver tha t  y o u  cou ld  p ossi bly 
d reamof.~~~ 
theloc k85
I'm n otf ollo wi ng  most o f your points  h ere (stand al one  maybe b ut not w ith
respect to my comme n ts). No  on e issayi ng you do n't  needtoI D sign als in  theno ise o r def i n equa li ty indicat o r s o f ski ll .

B ut if y our company is tak i ngon the divers ity  cha l l en get he n  ye s, sta r t  with
the factthat there  i s  7 + billionp eop le , (or a t least  theo nes wit h Githubprofiles,  t o yo u r  po int). Andyes, can vas all a v ailab l echann els  so yo udon 't
mi ss out onpeopl e "dru mm ed out ... f or  institu tional reasons (there's  an
en tireind ustry tha t d o esthis). Th en s tart overindef ining  yo u r sig nals an d
i n dicat ors- -in thisc as e s o m esweet spotb e t wee n the  pe o ple th ey h ope(!)
exists and the false posi tive s the y w i sh t he y had missed.
If  y o u 're notwi lling to ta ke these  m e asure s, sim ply si t back, d ow ork an d tr y
t o make mo ney  ( o r in th is  g u y's ca se l ea ve the  compa n y si n c e he's not in

 doesn't_make it_a
good idea.

> _And perhaps_there aren_'t_enough resources_to_improve said process_and
> handle a_greater volume of potentially_unqualified applicants._

That's how_you_handle a great volume of applicants - you look for indicators
of skill. None of_them_are necessary_or_sufficient;_they just increase the
likelihood that_this will be a good_hire a_little bit. Giving every single
person who is able_to_use the "resume"_template in Microsoft Word an in-person
interview would catch those_false negatives you're missing, but it_would be
ridiculously inefficient.

Or_am_I_to assume that when_you want to hire a plumber_you canvass your
neighborhood door-to-door so you_dont miss out on someone who might_be
qualified but just drummed out of_the plumbing industry for institutional
reasons?

Although_I do_like how you dismissed points_2-8 with a_simple handwaving_of
"elite males are_more likely to score higher on_these points, so_they're no
good."

Not to mention the fact_that_that argument does_virtually_nothing_to
contracdict point_#8. If youre_someone_who truly_believes_they're a Great
Programmer Who's Not Being_Given_a Chance Due To White Male Supremacy,_a
github profile is the_greatest_arrow in your quiver_that you could possibly
dream of.

~~~
thelock85
I'm_not following most of your points_here (standalone_maybe but_not with
respect to my comments). No one is saying you don't_need to ID signals in the
noise_or define quality indicators_of skill.

But_if_your company is_taking_on the_diversity challenge then yes, start with
the fact_that there_is 7+ billion people, (or at_least the ones with_Github
profiles,_to your point). And yes, canvas_all available channels so you don't
miss_out on people "drummed out..._for_institutional_reasons (there's an
entire industry that_does this). Then start over in_defining your signals_and
indicators --in this case some sweet spot_between_the people they hope(!)
exists and the_false_positives they wish they had missed.

If_you're_not_willing to take these measures,_simply sit back, do work and_try
to make money (or in this guy's case leave_the company since_he's not in
