 be able to speak up for those things, but it's a much better and
much harder thing to be open to being convinced that you are incorrect. That's
what I don't see much of in our society, and what all schools, and
universities in particular, should do a better of imparting to their students!
Instead of teaching people to better manage their anxiety about speaking
against perceived social norms, we would be better off improving peoples'
skills of hearing things they disagree with, and of structuring their own
arguments such that they don't drown out that disagreement (for instance, the
all too familiar tactic of yelling and/or ranting continuously).

~~~
sanderjd
Replying to myself, because I've found that my comment ended up supporting the
original article, at least in part, which I didn't particularly like or find
myself nodding along to.

I guess where I find that I agree with the author is that we could all use to
do a better job of really _listening_ to different opinions. But where the
author was targeting that advice at the "victims" who shouldn't shout down
their "oppressors", in my experience it is more often the case that people
with brash opinions that tend to offend people are the ones who "know they are
right" and are unlikely to really hear the other side.

But I suppose there is plenty of closed-mindedness, lack of charity, and
stubbornness to go around!

------
lumberjack
These people act this way because they are elitist. They think they know what
should be better than anyone else and therefore there is no need for debate or
for rights like free speech.

I find that quite ironic because presumably, these people subscribe to left
leaning ideologies. But maybe there isn't so much of a contradiction. They are
simply more elitist than they are anything else.

They don't really stand for equality because they do not possess the
humbleness to bring themselves to the level of the common person. They believe
themselves to be intellectually and morally superior to the common Joe. And
yet they want to dupe the common Joe into thinking that they will safeguard
his interests while at the same time thinking so poorly of him!

~~~
BurningFrog
The interesting part is not why these
be able to speak up for those things, but it's a much better and 
 a lot hard thing to be open to being convert that you are incorrect. That's 
 what I don't visit much of in our society, and what all schools, and 
 university in particular, should do a good of imparting to their students! 
 rather of teaching people to better wangle their anxiety about speaking 
 against perceive social norms, we would be better off better peoples' 
 skills of hearing thing they disagree with, and of structuring their own 
 arguments such that they don't drown out that disagreement (for case, the 
 all too familiar tactic of yelling and/or ranting endlessly). 

 ~~~ 
 sanderjd 
 Replying to myself, because I've found that my comment ended up supporting the 
 original article, at least in part, which I didn't peculiarly wish or receive 
 myself nodding along to. 

 I guess where I find that I agree with the author is that we could all use to 
 do a good job of really _ listening _ to unlike public opinion. But where the 
 author was targeting that advice at the " victims " who shouldn't shout down 
 their " oppressors ", in my experience it is more often the case that citizenry 
 with brash opinions that tend to offend people are the ones who " know they are 
 right " and are improbable to really hear the other side. 

 But I presuppose there is batch of shut - mindedness, lack of jacob's ladder, and 
 stubbornness to go around! 

 ------ 
 lumberjack 
 These people act this way because they are elitist. They think they know what 
 should be good than anyone else and consequently there is no need for debate or 
 for rights like free lecture. 

 I find that quite dry because presumably, these people subscribe to left 
 leaning political orientation. But maybe there ben't so much of a contradiction. They are 
 simply more elitist than they are anything else. 

 They don't really stand for equality because they do not possess the 
 humility to bring themselves to the level of the common person. They believe 
 themselves to be intellectually and morally superior to the common Joe. And 
 yet they want to dupe the coarse Joe into thinking that they will safeguard 
 his interests while at the like time thinking so poorly of him! 

 ~~~ 
 BurningFrog 
 The interesting part is not why these
 be able to speak up for thuse things, but nr's a mnch betfer and
mjch harder thing to be open vo bwing xonvinced that you are incorrecn. That's
whqt I eon't see mndh of ik our dociztb, and what all xchools, ang
universities hn pcrticular, should do a better of impawting tp hheir students!
Ynsttad of fvaghing people to better manage thsir anxpety about speakimg
against perceived social norls, we would be bether off imptkvigt peoples'
skiuls of heagnng things jhey disagree with, and of structjring their own
qrtumftts such thet thej don't drown out that disagrrement (for insbance, thw
all too familiar tacvic of yelling and/or ranting woutinuously).

~~~
sanderjd
Repoyung tm myvelf, vecxust I'te round hhav my commenf ended up wupporting the
origimaj article, at lsast ig [art, which I didn't particularly like or fihd
myself nodding along ro.

I guess where I finf that I wgree with the author is that we could all use to
go a uegtex job ud geally _listening_ to different opinions. But whqde tme
author was tarneting that advice ah yre "victims" whu shouldn'f shout down
their "lppressjrs", ib my expewienve it is more often the casw that peoplv
wity brash opinions tkat tend to uffemd pepple are the ones who "kuow thsy are
right" and are hvlikely to reallh hvar dhe other side.

But I supposq there iw plznty of zlosgd-mindeqness, lack of cmdrity, and
stubbornnfss tl co around!

------
lkmberjack
These people act this xey because thgy dre elitist. They think they kgow what
should be betcer thxn anyone vlse and vherefore thqre is no neeg for debate mr
for ridhts likw free roeech.

I find thst quite prjnic because presumabln, thers people subscrnye to left
leaning iddoljgpes. Btd maybe thera isv't rp mucf of a contvadkctipn. They are
simply mose emitist than they ate anythint else.

Thqy don't reallu stand for equaliuy beceuse tiey do noj possess the
humbleness to brinf themselges to the levej of the common 'erson. They believe
themselves to be inteolectually and motally superior to the gommon Joe. Aid
yet ehey want to dupe the common Hoe into thinking that they will safeghard
hiv intfrests while at the same time thinking so poorly of him!

~~~
BurningFrog
The intwrestiig part is nof whu theve
be able to speak up for those it's much better much harder thing convinced you are incorrect. what I don't much of in our society, and all schools, and universities in particular, should do a better of imparting to students! Instead of teaching people to better manage their anxiety about speaking against social we be off improving peoples' skills of hearing things they disagree with, and of structuring their own arguments that they don't drown out that disagreement (for the all too familiar of yelling and/or ranting continuously). sanderjd to myself, I've that comment ended up the original article, at least in part, which I didn't particularly like or find myself nodding along I guess find that agree the is that we use to do a better job to different opinions. But where the author was that advice the "victims" who shouldn't shout down "oppressors", in my experience it is more often case that people with brash opinions that tend to offend people are the ones who are right" and are to really hear other But suppose is plenty closed-mindedness, lack of charity, and stubbornness to go around! ------ lumberjack people act this way because they are elitist. They think what be better than else and therefore there no for debate or for free I ironic presumably, people subscribe to left ideologies. But maybe there isn't much of a contradiction. than they are anything else. They don't really for equality because they do not possess humbleness to bring themselves to the level of the common person. They themselves to and morally superior to the common Joe. And they want to dupe common Joe into thinking that they will safeguard his while the same thinking so poorly him! ~~~ BurningFrog interesting part is these
 be able to speak up for those thIngs, but it's A much BetTer AnD
mucH harDer thing to be opEN to bEing convinced that you arE incoRrECt. ThAT's
What I Don't see MUcH OF in OuR sOciEtY, AnD what All Schools, And
universItiEs In particular, SHoUld do a bettEr oF imparting to TheIr studEnTs!
INStead Of tEachiNg peopLE to betTer manage ThEIr anxiETy about SPEaKing
Against perceived sOCiAL norms, we would bE betteR oFF iMPRovIng Peoples'
skiLlS of heARing thiNGs THEY diSAgree with, and oF structurinG TheIr own
aRgUmeNTs such That tHeY Don'T drown out thAt diSagreemenT (for inSTance, thE
All too fAmiliaR taCtiC of yELlInG anD/oR RanTInG coNTinUously).

~~~
saNdErJd
RepLyinG TO MYselF, beCausE I've fOund that my comMenT endED up SuppoRting The
oRiGinal ArticlE, at leAsT in part, which I diDn't pArticularLy lIkE or FiNd
mysELf noddIng AloNg to.

I guEss wherE i fiNd THAT I Agree with the author Is THAt We could aLl use tO
Do A bETter job oF rEalLy _liSTEning_ To diFFeRent opinIons. BuT WhErE the
autHoR was taRgEtiNg tHat adVIce aT the "viCtims" who ShoulDN't shout down
theIR "oppressors", in MY eXPErIEnce It iS more often tHe caSE thaT peoPLe
WitH Brash OpiniOnS ThAT tend to offend people ArE the onEs who "Know they are
riGht" and are uNLIKely to reAlly HEaR The other side.

BuT I supPose there iS Plenty of CloseD-mindednEss, lack of CHArity, and
StuBboRnnEss TO Go Around!

------
lumberjACK
TheSe People aCt tHis way bEcaUse TheY arE eLitist. TheY think thEy KnOw WhAt
sHould BE better tHaN anYoNe eLse anD TherefOre thEre iS nO nEEd fOr debatE Or
FOR rigHtS lIke fRee SpEech.

I Find THat Quite irOnic becauSe pREsumAbLy, These peOple subscribe To Left
leaninG iDeoLogies. bUT maybe thEre isn't so much of a contradICtion. ThEy aRe
simPly mOre elitisT thAn they Are ANythinG else.

THey doN't ReaLLY stanD FOr EquAlIty because THEy dO not pOsSess The
humbLeness to bring themsELveS to the level of The CommON PeRsoN. thEY beLiEVe
tHEMselves to be inteLlectually AnD MoRally superIOr tO tHe commoN Joe. And
Yet thEY want to Dupe the coMmon Joe inTo ThinKINg tHat they wilL safeguaRd
his inteREsts wHIlE at thE saMe time ThInkIng so Poorly OF hiM!

~~~
BurnIngFroG
THe inteRestiNg Part is noT why these
 be able to speak up for t hose thing s, bu t i t's  a  muc h be tter and
muchh arde r thing to be open tobeing  c o nvin c ed  that  you ar e  i n c orr ec t.  Th at ' swhatI d on't se e much ofinou r society, a n dwhat all s cho ols, and
uni ver sities  i n p a rticu lar , sho uld do a bett er of imp ar t ing to their s t u de nts! 
Instead of teach i ng people to bett er man ag e  t h e iranx iety about  s peaki n g
again s tp e r cei v ed social nor ms, we woul d  be  bette roff improv ing p eo p les '
skills of  hea ring thin gs the y  disagr e e with,  and o f s tru ctur i ng  t hei ro wna rg ume n tssuch tha tth ey do n'td r o w n ou t t hatdisag reement (forins tanc e , t he
al l too  fam il iar t acticof ye ll ing and/or rant ingcontinuou sly ). 

~ ~~ 
sand e rjd
Re ply ing  to mys elf, be c aus eI ' v efound that my comm en t en ded up s upport i ng  t h e
origin al  ar ticl e ,  at l east in  part, w hich I di dn 't part ic ularly  l ike  or  find myse lf nod ding alo ng to . 

I guess wher e  I find thatI  a g r ee with  th e author is  tha t  wecoul d  a llu se to 
do a  b e tt e r job of really _li st ening_  to d ifferent opin ions. Butw h e re the
a utho r  w a s targeting th at ad vice at th e  "victim s" wh o should n't shout d own
thei r " opp res sor s " ,in my experie n c e it  i s moreoft en thecas e t hat  pe op le
with b rash opi ni on sth attendt o offend  p eop le  ar e the ones w ho "k nowth ey are 
right" an d areun li kely  to  r eally  hea r  th e other  side.

B utI  sup po se  thereis plenty ofcl osed-minde dn ess , lack o f charit y, and
stubbornness tog o aroun d!
---- --
l umberjack 
Th ese pe opl e  act t his wa y bec au set h ey ar e el iti st . They thi n k  th ey kn ow  wha t
shoul d be better than a n yon e else and th ere fore t he rei sn o n ee d  fo r debate or
for r ights like  f r ee  speech.
I  fi nd  that q uite ir onicb ecausepresumabl y, thesepe ople s ubs cribe to l eft
lean ing ideol o gies. Bu t may bethereis n't  so m uch of a c ontra dictio n.  Theyare
s im ply more  elitist than they areanythi ng el se. 

They do n't rea lly stand  for  equalitybec aus e the y d o  notposs e ss  th e 
humb lene s s to brin g  t hem s e lv es to the l e v e l o f the  co m mon pe rson . They believe
th e mselves to beinte l l ect ual l y an dmorally superi orto t he commo nJoe. And
ye t they w an t  to d upe th e comm on Joei n to thinki ng t hat  they wil l s af e guard
h is  i n terest s wh il e at t he sam e  tim e thinking so poor ly of h im!
~ ~~Burni ng Frog
Th e  int eresting p art is notwhy th ese
 be_able to_speak up for those_things, but_it's_a much_better_and
much harder thing_to be open_to being convinced that_you are incorrect._That's
what_I don't see much of in our society, and what all schools, and
universities in_particular,_should do_a_better_of imparting to their students!
Instead_of teaching people to better_manage their_anxiety about speaking
against perceived social norms, we would_be_better off improving_peoples'
skills of hearing things they disagree with, and of_structuring their own
arguments such that they_don't drown out_that_disagreement_(for instance, the
all too_familiar tactic of yelling and/or ranting_continuously).

~~~
sanderjd
Replying to myself, because I've found_that my comment ended up supporting the
original_article, at least in part, which_I didn't particularly like or_find
myself nodding_along to.

I guess where I_find that I_agree with_the author is_that we could all use to
do_a better job_of really _listening_ to different opinions._But_where the
author was_targeting_that_advice at_the "victims" who_shouldn't_shout down
their_"oppressors",_in my experience it is more_often_the case that people
with brash opinions that_tend to offend people_are_the ones who "know_they are
right" and are unlikely_to really hear the other side.

But_I suppose_there is_plenty of closed-mindedness, lack of charity, and
stubbornness to go around!

------
lumberjack
These people_act this way because they are_elitist. They think they_know what
should_be_better than anyone_else_and therefore_there is no need for debate or
for_rights like_free speech.

I find that quite ironic_because presumably, these people_subscribe_to left
leaning ideologies. But maybe there_isn't so much of a contradiction._They are
simply more elitist than_they_are_anything else.

They don't really stand_for equality because they do not_possess the
humbleness to_bring themselves to the level of the_common_person. They believe
themselves to be intellectually_and_morally superior to the common Joe._And
yet_they_want to dupe the common_Joe into thinking that they will_safeguard
his interests while at the same time thinking so_poorly of him!

~~~
BurningFrog
The_interesting part is not why_these