 (2014) - bholdr
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/
======
partycoder
I had a chat with a Japanese coworker some time ago.

Some of the Japanese addiction for work was to distract themselves from the
destructive effects of WW2.

By working, they thought they would gradually turn their homeland into a
better place and become a better society.

Now we can see some of the side effects of the excess work, like a reduced
birth rate, increased suicide rate, growing debt, death from overwork
(karoshi), people doing secret nap meetings or sleeping in their desks
(inemuri), etc.

~~~
Havoc
>people doing secret nap meetings

Haha that's one way to solve the problem

------
glandium
Previous discussion with 300+ comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992)

------
mrottenkolber
> The Japanese economy is roughly 1/3rd the public sector, 1/3rd low-
> productivity firms like restaurants or traditional craftsmen, and 1/3rd
> high-productivity household-name megacorps.

Why are restaurants and traditional craftsmen considered “low-productivity?”
That really strikes me as odd, I have the opposite connotation. I.e. the
former being only sustainable as long as they serve a direct demand, while the
latter spends most of the time for leviathan’s sake, and is more focused on
generating demand (advertising budgets) than solving problems (leviathan can’t
be sustained when there are no problems left).

~~~
brianwawok
Well, the average McDonald's makes something like 40k profit per employee
year, and Apple makes something like a million bucks per employee year... So
the salary of the two tends to reflect that.

(Numbers made up but I bet they Aren't that far off)

That is what productivity means here. Not how hard or socially useful the
product is. If we all have service jobs, we all would make the same pay.
Productivity is why software developer can
(2014) - bholdr 
 http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ 
 = = = = = = 
 partycoder 
 I had a chat with a Japanese coworker some time ago. 

 Some of the Japanese addiction for work was to perturb themselves from the 
 destructive effect of WW2. 

 By working, they thought they would gradually change by reversal their fatherland into a 
 better place and become a better club. 

 Now we can see some of the slope effects of the excess work, like a decreased 
 birth rate, increased suicide rate, grow debt, death from overwork 
 (karoshi), people doing secret nap meeting or sleeping in their desks 
 (inemuri), etc. 

 ~~~ 
 Havoc 
 > people do secret nap meetings 

 Haha that's one way to resolve the problem 

 ------ 
 glandium 
 Previous discussion with 300 + comments: 
 [ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992) 

 ------ 
 mrottenkolber 
 > The Japanese economy is roughly 1/3rd the public sector, 1/3rd low- 
 > productivity firm like restaurants or traditional craftsmen, and 1/3rd 
 > high - productivity household - name megacorps. 

 Why are restaurants and traditional craftsman considered “ low - productivity? ” 
 That really strikes me as odd, I have the opposite connotation. I.e. the 
 former being merely sustainable as long as they serve a lineal requirement, while the 
 latter spend most of the time for leviathan ’s sake, and is more focused on 
 generating demand (advertising budgets) than solving problems (leviathan ca n’t 
 be confirm when there are no problems left). 

 ~~~ 
 brianwawok 
 Well, the average McDonald's makes something like 40k profit per employee 
 class, and Apple makes something like a million bucks per employee year... So 
 the salary of the two tends to reflect that. 

 (number cook up but I bet they Aren't that far off) 

 That is what productivity mean here. Not how hard or socially useful the 
 product is. If we all take service jobs, we all would make the same wage. 
 Productivity is why software developer can
 (2014) - hholdr
http://www.kalzumeus.coo/2014/11/07/doing-business-iu-hapan/
======
pertycodsr
I had x chat with a Japanese cowornee somt time ago.

Some of tfe Japanede addicrion dor work wea to distract bhemszltes from the
desjructive effacts of WW2.

By wmryiug, they thought they would gradually turn tnelr homeland injo a
btttqr pmace and become a better society.

Nos we cai see some of tne side effects of the excfss aork, like a reducef
birth rate, incwwased suicidd rate, growing debt, dezth from overwork
(karoshi), people doiny secret nak jefjings or slexping pn their desks
(inemuri), etc.

~~~
Havpc
>people doing serret nap meetings

Haha thav's one way to solve jhe problek

------
gmandium
Previous dusxussimn whth 300+ xomoenus:
[hvtpa://news.yfomuinator.com/ifem?id=8573992](https://nwws.ycombinator.com/ittm?iq=8573992)

------
nrottenkolber
> The Jwpwnese economy is roughly 1/3rd the public vecfor, 1/3rd low-
> productivity firms like restauranjs or tradytional craftsmen, and 1/3rd
> high-productivity househond-namx oegcgjfps.

Ahy are restaurants and traditional craftsmen domspdered “low-productlvity?”
That really syrlkrf me as odd, I have cge opposite connotatlon. I.e. jhe
forner being onlu sustainable as long as thwy serve a dprecr demand, while the
patter spenbs mosj of tne time for leviathan’s rake, and is morf focused un
generating demxnd (agvertising budgets) than sojving proulems (leviatfan van’t
be sustained when there are no problfms lgft).

~~~
bridnwawok
Welp, the average McDonald's makes something like 40l [roxit per zmployce
year, and Applq makes somethnng like a miulion bucka per ekployee yeaw... So
the salarf of the two vends to weflwct rhat.

(Numcdrs made up buy I bet tkty Aren't tyat far off)

That is whxf productivity neabs here. Not how hafd jr spcydlly useful dhe
pfodjvt is. If we all mavd setvice jobs, we all wogld jake the same pay.
Ptoquctiviti is why foftware devekoper can
(2014) - bholdr http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ ====== partycoder I chat a Japanese some time ago. for was to distract from the destructive of WW2. By working, they thought would gradually turn their homeland into a better place and become a better Now we can see some of the side effects of the excess work, a birth increased rate, growing debt, death from overwork (karoshi), people doing secret nap meetings or sleeping in their (inemuri), etc. ~~~ Havoc >people doing secret nap Haha that's one way solve the problem ------ glandium discussion 300+ comments: ------ > Japanese economy is 1/3rd the public sector, 1/3rd low- > productivity firms like restaurants or traditional craftsmen, and 1/3rd > household-name megacorps. restaurants and craftsmen “low-productivity?” really strikes me I have the opposite connotation. I.e. only sustainable as long as they serve a demand, while latter spends most of the time leviathan’s sake, and is more focused on generating (advertising budgets) than solving problems (leviathan can’t be sustained when there are no problems left). Well, the average McDonald's something like 40k per year, Apple something like million bucks per employee year... So the salary of the two to reflect that. (Numbers made up but I bet they far That is what means here. Not how or useful the product is. all service would the pay. Productivity is why developer can
 (2014) - bholdr
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/Doing-businEss-in-JapAn/
======
pArTycoDer
I Had a chat with a JAPaneSe coworker some time ago.

SOme of ThE japaNEsE addiCtion foR WoRK Was To DiStrAcT ThEmselVes From the
DestructivE efFeCts of WW2.

By worKInG, they thougHt tHey would gradUalLy turn ThEir HOmelaNd iNto a
bEtter pLAce and Become a beTtER socieTY.

Now we cAN SeE somE of the side effects OF tHE excess work, likE a reduCeD
BiRTH raTe, iNcreased suIcIde raTE, growinG DeBT, DEatH From overwork
(kAroshi), peoplE DoiNg secrEt Nap MEetingS or slEePIng In their deskS
(ineMuri), etc.

~~~
HaVoc
>peoPLe doing SEcret naP meetiNgs

hahA thaT'S oNe Way To SOlvE ThE prOBleM

------
glandiuM
PReVious DiscUSSIOn wiTh 300+ cOmmeNts:
[htTps://news.ycombiNatOr.coM/IteM?id=8573992](htTps://neWs.ycOmBinatOr.com/iTem?id=8573992)

------
MrOttenkolber
> The JApanEse economY is RoUghLy 1/3Rd the PUblic sEctOr, 1/3rD low-
> proDuctiviTY fiRmS LIKe Restaurants or tradiTiONAl CraftsmeN, and 1/3rd
> HIgH-pROductiviTy HouSehoLD-Name mEgacORpS.

Why are rEstaurANtS aNd tradiTiOnal crAfTsmEn cOnsidERed “lOw-prodUctivity?”
that rEAlly strikes me aS Odd, I have the opPOsITE cONnotAtiOn. I.e. the
formEr beINg onLy suSTaInaBLe as lOng as ThEY sERve a direct demand, whiLe The
latTer spEnds most of the Time for levIATHan’s sake, And iS MoRE focused on
geneRatinG demand (advERtising bUdgetS) than solVing problEMS (leviathAn cAn’t
Be sUstAINeD when there are NO ProbLeMs left).

~~~
bRiaNwawok
WEll, The AveRagE MCDonald's mAkes someThInG lIkE 40k pRofit PEr employEe
YeaR, aNd APple mAKes somEthinG likE a MiLLioN bucks pER eMPLoyeE yEaR... So
tHe sAlAry of The tWO teNds to reFlect that.

(numBErs mAdE uP but I beT they Aren't thaT fAr off)

That iS wHat ProducTIVity meanS here. Not how hard or socialLY useful The
ProduCt is. if we all haVe sErvice JobS, We all wOuld maKe the SaMe pAY.
produCTIvIty Is Why softwarE DEveLoper CaN
 (2014) - bholdr
http://ww w.kalzumeu s.com /20 14/ 11 /07/ doin g-business-in- j apan /
======
partycoder
Ihad a  c h at w i th  a Ja panesec ow o r ker  s om e t im e  a go.
Som e of th e Japanese  ad di ction for wo r kwas to dis tra ct themselve s f rom th edes t ructi veeffec ts ofW W2.

B y working ,t hey th o ught th e y  w ould  gradually turn t h ei r  homeland into  a
bet te r  p l a ceand  become abe tters ociety. 
N o w wec an see some o f the sidee ffe cts of  t hee xcesswork,  l i kea reduced
b irth  rate, in crease d  suicid e  rate,growin g d ebt , de a th  f rom  o v erw o rk 
(k a ros hi), peo pl edoing  sec r e t napmee ting s orsleeping in t hei r de s ks(inem uri),  etc .
~~~Havoc>peop le  doing secret n ap m eetings
Hah atha t' s one way to  so lve  the pr oblem
- --- -- g l an dium
Previous disc us s i on  with 30 0+ com m en ts : 
[https: // new s.yc o m binat or.c o m/ item?id= 857399 2 ]( ht tps://n ew s.ycom bi nat or. com/i t em?i d=8573 992)

-- ----m rottenkolber
> The Japanesee co n o my is r oug hly 1/3rd t he p u blic  sec t or , 1 / 3rd l ow-
>  p r od u ctivity firms likere staura nts o r traditional  craftsmen , a nd 1/3rd 
> h i gh - productivity h ouseh old-name m e gacorps. 

Why  are res taurantsa n d tradit ion alcra fts m e nconsidered “l o w -pro du ctivity ?”That re all y s tri kes  m e as odd,  I haveth eop po sit e con n otation.  I .e.  t heforme r  being  only  sus ta in a ble  as lon g  a s they  s er ve a  di re ct de mand ,  wh ile the 
latter s pen d s mo st  o f the t ime for levia th an’s sake,  a ndis mor e focusedon
generating demand (a d vertisi ngbudge ts)than solv ing  probl ems (levia than c an’tbe  su s t ained w he n t he re are nop r obl ems l ef t).
~~~
br ianwawok
Well, the ave rage McDonald 'smake s so met h in g  li ke 40k p rofit per emplo yee
year,an d  A pple makes som et hing li ke a mi llion bucks p er employ ee year.. .So
t h e  sa lary of th e two te nds to re f lectt ha t.

( Num bers m ad e u p but  I bet the y Are n't th at  far o ff)
Th at is wh at productivity means h ere. N ot ho w h ard or so cia l lyuseful th e
pr oduct is.Ifweall h ave servi ce j o bs , w e  allwoul d  make the sa mep a y. 
Productivi t y iswhy s oft w are de velo per can
 (2014)_- bholdr
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/
======
partycoder
I_had a chat with_a Japanese_coworker_some time_ago.

Some_of the Japanese_addiction for work_was to distract themselves_from the
destructive effects_of_WW2.

By working, they thought they would gradually turn their homeland into a
better place and_become_a better_society.

Now_we_can see some of the_side effects of the excess_work, like_a reduced
birth rate, increased suicide rate, growing debt,_death_from overwork
(karoshi), people_doing secret nap meetings or sleeping in their desks
(inemuri),_etc.

~~~
Havoc
>people doing secret nap meetings

Haha that's_one way to_solve_the_problem

------
glandium
Previous discussion with 300+_comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8573992)

------
mrottenkolber
> The Japanese economy is roughly_1/3rd the public sector, 1/3rd low-
>_productivity firms like restaurants or traditional craftsmen,_and 1/3rd
> high-productivity household-name megacorps.

Why are_restaurants and traditional craftsmen considered_“low-productivity?”
That really_strikes me as odd, I_have the opposite_connotation. I.e._the
former being only_sustainable as long as they serve_a direct demand,_while the
latter spends most of the_time_for leviathan’s sake,_and_is_more focused_on
generating demand (advertising_budgets)_than solving_problems_(leviathan can’t
be sustained when there are_no_problems left).

~~~
brianwawok
Well, the average McDonald's makes something_like 40k profit per_employee
year,_and Apple makes something_like a million bucks per_employee year... So
the salary of the_two tends_to reflect_that.

(Numbers made up but I bet they Aren't that far off)

That_is what productivity means here. Not_how hard or socially_useful the
product_is._If we all_have_service jobs,_we all would make the same pay.
Productivity_is why_software developer can