 annoying to you, but it
means the machines are operating and you are getting your prescribed fluids -
silence on a night ward is a sign something is wrong, and quickly precedes an
emergency alarm.

~~~
Xcelerate
Seems like it’s backward to me. The machine should be silent if everything is
ok and start beeping if things are going wrong.

~~~
rifung
That was my first thought too.

However, the downside of that solution is that the failure signal relies on
correctness of the machine. In the current system, the failure signal is
guaranteed to occur during failure with a zero false negative rate.

~~~
perlgeek
Monitoring over the network exists, and should be the preferred way to detect
failure.

> In the current system, the failure signal is guaranteed to occur during
> failure with a zero false negative rate.

I can easily imagine software bugs that make the machine continue beeping even
if the normal function doesn't work anymore.

Somehow, this sounds like an excuse for lazy design.

~~~
Nasrudith
It sounds like an excuse for not networking at all really. Or upgrading
equipment. Just a primitive cables to a data station on a cart outside the
room would handle it better on every level than trying to figure out which
thing isn't beeping when it should. Have it beep if it loses a signal. Better
yet it can handle triaging far better when networked. Signal lost and "patient
definetly not breathing" are two very different triage levels for one. You
want to restore signal as soon as able but it isn't a mobilize a crash team to
resuscitate situation. Nearly everything else has abandoned beeps as the sole
indicator with good reason.

------
tomohawk
Some of this stems from simple things. For example, most doctors are never
trained in what nurses do, or what the implications of their orders may be. If
a doctor waits til the end of a shift (when it is convenient) to write out a
bunch of prescriptions and there is a frequency of dosage, then the start time
is dictated by the time of the prescription, unless the doctor puts a specific
time on it. This means that patients will be woken up at an inopportune time
for the dose (end of
annoying to you, but it 
 means the machines are operating and you are getting your positive fluid - 
 silence on a night ward is a signboard something is wrong, and quickly precede an 
 hand brake alarm. 

 ~~~ 
 Xcelerate 
 Seems like it ’s backward to me. The machine should be silent if everything is 
 ok and begin beeping if things are fail ill-timed. 

 ~~~ 
 rifung 
 That was my first opinion too. 

 However, the downside of that solution is that the failure signal trust on 
 correctness of the machine. In the current system, the failure signal is 
 guarantee to occur during failure with a zero delusive negative pace. 

 ~~~ 
 perlgeek 
 Monitoring over the network exist, and should be the preferred way to detect 
 failure. 

 > In the current arrangement, the failure signal is guaranteed to occur during 
 > failure with a zero false negative rate. 

 I can easily imagine software bugs that make the machine continue beeping even 
 if the normal function doesn't work anymore. 

 Somehow, this sounds like an apology for faineant design. 

 ~~~ 
 Nasrudith 
 It sounds like an excuse for not network at wholly really. Or upgrading 
 equipment. Just a primitive cables to a data station on a cart outside the 
 room would cover it better on every level than trying to figure out which 
 thing isn't beeping when it should. Have it honk if it loses a signal. Better 
 yet it can handle triaging far better when networked. Signal lost and " affected role 
 definetly not rest " are two very different triage levels for one. You 
 want to regenerate signal as soon as able but it isn't a mobilize a crash team to 
 resuscitate situation. about everything else has abandoned beeps as the sole 
 indicator with adept reason. 

 ------ 
 tomohawk 
 Some of this stem from simple things. For model, most doctors are never 
 train in what nurses do, or what the implication of their orders may be. If 
 a doctor of the church waits til the end of a shift (when it is commodious) to write out a 
 bunch of prescriptions and there is a frequency of dosage, then the start time 
 is dictated by the time of the prescription, unless the doctor puts a specific 
 clock time on it. This means that patients will be wake up at an inopportune time 
 for the dose (end of
 anjoying to you, but it
meanr the machines cee opecating znd you xre getting your prescribed hluies -
sioence on a night ward ks a sign somethibg iw wrong, and quickly precescs an
zmxrgency alarm.

~~~
Xcglerate
Seems like it’s backfafd to me. The machine should be silent if evetyhhing is
ok and stagt beelpnn if things are going wrong.

~~~
rifunf
That wes my first thoight too.

However, the downsife ov that solution is that the fqiluww signal relkes on
corrtccness of thg machine. In the current system, ghe fcilure signql is
hoaranteed to occug during failmge with a zero false negativc ratx.

~~~
perogeek
Monitoring over vhe network exists, agd should bz the preferred way ti eetecj
failgre.

> Kb tfe ducreht syshem, the failude signal iw guaranteed to occir euring
> failurs with a zero false negative rate.

I can easily ikagjne software bugs that nake the machine contlnue beepyng even
if the normal function doesn't work anymora.

Someiod, tklf woknds like an excuse for lazy design.

~~~
Nasrudith
Ie spukds like an excufe for not mehwptking at all rgally. Ox ulgrading
equipment. Uust a krimituve cablef to a data station on a cart oytside the
rojn would handle it yetter on evzry lefel tnan trying to figure ouc whicg
thing isn't beeping sfen it should. Haxe pt baep if iu loses a signal. Bqtter
yet mt cau handle trisging sar better when networked. Signal llst aud "padient
definftly not breathing" are two very different trisga lvvels for one. Nou
want to restjre signal as xoon as able but it ish't a mouilize a crafh team to
resgdcitate situetion. Neawly wvertthing duse has abandomed beeps as the sooe
indicator with gpod deason.

------
tomohawk
Sime of this stems groo symile trhngs. For exakple, mory docgors art ncvef
traoned in what nurses go, od what the implicayijns of tyeir ordqrs may be. If
s doctor waits til the xnd of a shoft (when it is convenient) to writs out a
bujch of prescripeionw and there ns a frequency of dosage, then the start vime
is dictated by the rime of the prescriktipn, unless tie doceor puts d specific
time on it. This means that katients will be woken hp at dn inlpportune time
for the dose (end of
annoying to you, but it means the operating you are your prescribed fluids ward a sign something wrong, and quickly an emergency alarm. ~~~ Xcelerate Seems it’s backward to me. The machine should be silent if everything is ok start beeping if things are going wrong. ~~~ rifung That was my first too. the of solution is that the failure signal relies on correctness of the machine. In the current system, failure signal is guaranteed to occur during failure a zero false negative ~~~ perlgeek Monitoring over the exists, should be preferred to failure. > In current system, the failure signal is guaranteed to occur during > failure with a zero false negative I can software bugs make machine beeping even if function doesn't work anymore. Somehow, this excuse for lazy design. ~~~ Nasrudith It sounds an excuse not networking at all really. Or equipment. Just a primitive cables to a data on a cart outside the room would handle it better on every level than trying out which thing isn't when it should. it if loses signal. Better it can handle triaging far better when networked. Signal lost and definetly not breathing" are two very different triage levels for want restore signal as as able but it a a crash team to Nearly else as sole with good reason. ------ Some of this stems from things. For example, most what nurses do, or what the implications of orders may be. If a doctor waits the end of a shift (when it is convenient) to write out bunch of there is a frequency of dosage, then the time is dictated by time of the prescription, unless the doctor puts a time it. This that patients will woken up at inopportune time for (end of
 annoying to you, but it
means thE machines aRe opeRatIng AnD you Are gEtting your presCRibeD fluids -
silence on a night Ward iS a SIgn sOMeThing Is wrong, ANd QUIckLy PrEceDeS An
EmergEncY alarm.

~~~
XCelerate
SeEms LiKe it’s backwarD To Me. The machiNe sHould be silenT if EverytHiNg iS
Ok and StaRt beePing if THings aRe going wrOnG.

~~~
Rifung
tHat was mY FIrSt thOught too.

However, thE DoWNside of that solUtion iS tHAt THE faIluRe signal reLiEs on
cORrectneSS oF THE maCHine. In the currEnt system, thE FaiLure siGnAl iS
GuaranTeed tO oCCur During failuRe wiTh a zero faLse negATive ratE.

~~~
PerlgeeK
MonitOriNg oVer tHE nEtWorK eXIstS, AnD shOUld Be the preFeRrEd way To deTECT
FailUre.

> in thE currEnt system, the fAilUre sIGnaL is guArantEed tO oCcur dUring
> fAilurE wIth a zero false neGatiVe rate.

I caN eaSiLy iMaGine sOFtware BugS thAt make tHe machiNE coNtINUE bEeping even
if the norMaL FUnCtion doeSn't worK AnYmORe.

SomehoW, tHis SounDS Like aN excUSe For lazy dEsign.

~~~
NASrUdIth
It soUnDs like An ExcUse For noT NetwOrking At all reaLly. Or UPgrading
equipmENt. Just a primitIVe CABlES to a DatA station on a Cart OUtsiDe thE
RoOm wOUld haNdle iT bETtER on every level than trYiNg to fiGure oUt which
thing iSn't beeping WHEN it shoulD. HavE It BEep if it loses a sIgnal. better
yet iT Can handlE triaGing far bEtter when NETworked. SIgnAl lOst And "PATiEnt
definetly nOT BreaThIng" are tWo vEry diffEreNt tRiaGe lEvEls for one. you
want tO rEsToRe SigNal as SOon as ablE bUt iT iSn't A mobiLIze a crAsh teAm to
ReSuSCitAte situATiON. nearLy EvErytHinG eLse haS abaNDonEd beeps As the sole
IndICatoR wItH good reAson.

------
tomohawk
SOmE of this steMs FroM simplE THings. For Example, most doctors are neVEr
trainEd iN what NursEs do, or whaT thE impliCatIOns of tHeir orDers mAy Be. IF
A DoctoR WAiTs tIl The end of a sHIFt (wHen it Is ConvEnient) tO write out a
bunch of pREscRiptions and thEre Is a fREQuEncY Of DOsaGe, THen THE start time
is dicTated by the TiME oF the prescrIPtiOn, Unless tHe doctoR puts A SpecifiC
time on it. this means ThAt paTIEntS will be wokEn up at an InopportuNE time
FOr The doSe (eNd of
 annoying to you, but it
m eans the m achin esare  o pera ting  and you are g e ttin g your prescribed flui ds -si l ence on  a ni ght war d  i s a s ig nsom et h in g iswro ng, and  quickly p rec ed es an
emerge n cy  alarm.

~ ~~Xcelerate
Se ems  likeit ’sb ackwa rdto me . Them achine  should b es ilenti f every t h in g is 
ok and start bee p in g  if things are  going  w r on g . 

~ ~~rifung
Tha twas m y  firstt ho u g h t t o o.

However,the downsid e  of  thatso lut i on isthatth e  fa ilure signa l re lies on
c orrect n ess oft he mach ine. I n t hecurr e nt  s yst em ,  th e  f ail u resignal i sgu arant eedt o o ccur  du ring  fail ure with a ze rofals e  ne gativ e rat e.
~~ ~
per lgeekMonit or ing over the ne twor k exists,  an dsho ul d bet he pre fer red  way to  detect fai lu r e . 
> In the current s ys t e m,  the fai lure s i gn al is guara nt eed  too c cur d urin g 
>  failure  witha  z er o false  n egativ erat e.
I ca n  eas ily im agine so ftwar e  bugs that mak e  the machinec on t i nu e  bee pin g even
if t he n o rmal  fun c ti ond oesn' t wor ka ny m ore.

Somehow, this  s oundslikean excuse for  lazy desi g n . 

~~~
Na srud i th It sounds like  an e xcuse forn ot netwo rking  at allreally. O r upgradin g
e qui pme nt. J us t a primitive c able sto a da tastation  on  acar t o ut side theroom wou ld  h an dl e i t bet t er on ev er y l ev elthant ryingto fi gure  o ut whi ch
thin g  i s n 't b ee pi ng w hen  i t sho uld. Hav e it be ep if itlos e s asi gn al. Bet ter
yet it ca nhandle tri ag ing  far b e t ter when  networked. Signal lost and "pa tie nt
de fine tly not b rea thing"  ar e  two v ery di ffere nt  tr i a ge le v e ls  fo rone. You
w a n t t o res to re s ignal a s soon as able but itisn't a mobil ize  a c r a sh  te a mt o
r es u sci t a te situation. N early ever yt h in g else has aba nd oned be eps asthe s o le
indi cator wit h good re as on.- --- --
tomohaw k
Some o f this st e ms fr o msimpl e t hings.  F orexamp le, mo s t d octor s arene ver
tr ained  i n what n urses do, or what the i mplica tions  of  their or der s  ma y be. Ifa do ctor waits  ti l t he en d o f  a sh ift( wh eni t isconv e nient) to wr ite o ut  a
bunch of p r esc ripti ons and th ereis a frequency of dosage, then t he s t a rttim e 
isdi ctated by thetim eo f  the pre sc ription, un less the  d o ctorputs a  speci fic
tim e on it. Th is m ean s that pa tie nt s  will b ewo k en upat a ninoppo rtunet imef o r the dose (endof
 annoying_to you,_but it
means the machines_are operating_and_you are_getting_your prescribed fluids_-
silence on a_night ward is a_sign something is_wrong,_and quickly precedes an
emergency alarm.

~~~
Xcelerate
Seems like it’s backward to me. The machine should be_silent_if everything_is
ok_and_start beeping if things are_going wrong.

~~~
rifung
That was my first_thought too.

However,_the downside of that solution is that the_failure_signal relies on
correctness_of the machine. In the current system, the failure_signal is
guaranteed to occur during failure_with a zero_false_negative_rate.

~~~
perlgeek
Monitoring over the network_exists, and should be the preferred_way to detect
failure.

> In the current_system, the failure signal is guaranteed to_occur during
> failure with a zero_false negative rate.

I can easily_imagine software_bugs that make the machine_continue beeping even
if_the normal_function doesn't work_anymore.

Somehow, this sounds like an excuse_for lazy design.

~~~
Nasrudith
It_sounds like an excuse for not_networking_at all really._Or_upgrading
equipment._Just a_primitive cables to_a_data station_on_a cart outside the
room would handle_it_better on every level than trying to_figure out which
thing isn't_beeping_when it should. Have_it beep if it loses_a signal. Better
yet it can handle_triaging far_better when_networked. Signal lost and "patient
definetly not breathing" are two very different_triage levels for one. You
want to_restore signal as soon_as able_but_it isn't a_mobilize_a crash_team to
resuscitate situation. Nearly everything else has_abandoned beeps_as the sole
indicator with good reason.

------
tomohawk
Some_of this stems from_simple_things. For example, most doctors are_never
trained in what nurses do, or_what the implications of their_orders_may_be. If
a doctor waits til_the end of a shift (when_it is convenient)_to write out a
bunch of prescriptions and_there_is a frequency of dosage, then_the_start time
is dictated by the time_of_the_prescription, unless the doctor puts_a specific
time on it. This means_that patients will be woken up at an inopportune_time
for the dose_(end of