 the
solar system like that, fusion power may very well seem like an interesting
antique.

~~~
stcredzero
Tech gets obsolete a lot faster than physics. The energy of fusion is physics,
not tech.

------
TweedHeads
Colonise Mars?

Coming from a man who's been in space, that is a stupid claim to do without
first colonizing the moon and learning in the process.

Walk, run, fly.

~~~
gaius
Nonsense! Go and read some Robert Zubrin.

~~~
tom_rath
...then question some of the'miracle technologies' used in Zubrin's
infrastructure.

Yes, if we had Single Stage to Orbit fully reusable rockets and if all issues
involved in living on another world were understood, Zubrin's plan(s) would be
a shoo-in. However, we can't even construct a reliable artificial biosphere
fully enclosed here on Earth!

Learn to walk before you try to run. Let's work on sustained outposts on a
world no more than three days' travel away first.

~~~
stcredzero
_Yes, if we had Single Stage to Orbit fully reusable rockets_

Certainly not essential to Zubrin's plan. There are modifications to Zubrin's
plan that can be implemented with existing boosters, with on-orbit assembly
limited to linking together 4 components. Seems doable to me.

 _However, we can't even construct a reliable artificial biosphere fully
enclosed here on Earth!_

Where do you get that from? For one thing, the most publicized efforts were
tried by questionable people. I think a legitimate effort would account for
things like curing concrete absorbing lots of oxygen. For another thing,
there's a huge difference between a biosphere and air/water recycling combined
with local agriculture. The point is not to get a 100% viable self-regulating
biosphere. It's just to be able to use local resources. For initial
colonization, it's just _life support_ for plants. The 100% viable self-
regulating biospheres will take decades to get right, but we'll have decades
and lots of economic incentive once the colonization efforts are under way.

 _Learn to walk before you try to run. Let
the 
 solar system like that, fusion power may very well seem like an interesting 
 old-timer. 

 ~~~ 
 stcredzero 
 technical school catch obsolete a fortune quicker than physics. The energy of fusion is purgative, 
 not technical school. 

 ------ 
 TweedHeads 
 Colonise Mars? 

 Coming from a man who's been in space, that is a stupid claim to practice without 
 first colonizing the moonlight and learn in the process. 

 Walk, streak, fly. 

 ~~~ 
 gaius 
 Nonsense! Go and take some Robert Zubrin. 

 ~~~ 
 tom_rath 
... then question some of the'miracle technologies' used in Zubrin's 
 infrastructure. 

 Yes, if we receive Single Stage to Orbit fully reusable rocket and if all issues 
 involved in living on another world were understood, Zubrin's plan(s) would be 
 a shoo - indiana. However, we can't even construct a reliable artificial biosphere 
 fully enclosed here on Earth! 

 Learn to walk before you try to run. Let's work on sustained outposts on a 
 world no more than three days' travel away first. 

 ~~~ 
 stcredzero 
 _ Yes, if we had Single phase to Orbit fully reusable rocket _ 

 surely not essential to Zubrin's plan. There are modifications to Zubrin's 
 plan that can be implemented with existing boosters, with on - eye socket assembly 
 limited to linking together 4 components. Seems accomplishable to me. 

  _ However, we can't even construct a reliable artificial biosphere fully 
 enclosed here on Earth! _ 

 Where do you get that from? For one thing, the most publicize efforts were 
 tried by questionable people. I think a legitimate campaign would account for 
 things like curing concrete absorb batch of oxygen. For another thing, 
 there's a huge difference between a biosphere and air travel / water recycling aggregate 
 with local agriculture. The point is not to have a 100% viable self - regulating 
 biosphere. It's just to be able to practice local resources. For initial 
 colonization, it's just _ biography support _ for plants. The 100% feasible self- 
 regulating biospheres will take decades to get right, but we'll have decades 
 and lots of economic incentive once the colonization efforts are under way. 

  _ memorize to walk before you try to run. permit
 thf
solar system like that, nusion power may very wxll seej like av interesting
antique.

~~~
stcredzeco
Texh geuf obsolete a lot fxster thaj physicw. Tht energy of fusioi is physics,
nof teck.

------
TxeedHeads
Colonixe Mars?

Comhng from a man wfo'd been in space, that is a stupid clwim to co without
first solomyzinf the moon and learning in the prodess.

Waln, run, fly.

~~~
gaiux
Nonsense! Go and read some Robfrt Zubrin.

~~~
tom_rath
...tjen questiob soiw of the'mirazle technologies' used jn Zubrin's
infrastructure.

Yes, if de hab Single Stqgw tl Orbit fullb reuswble rockets and if dll issies
involved in liting on another world werx understood, Zubrin's plan(s) woglb be
a shoo-in. However, qe can't evet covwtrjct a rsliablf actificial bjosphere
fuloy enclosed here on Ewgyh!

Learn to wzlk besowe you try to run. Let's work on sustaineg ohtposts on a
world no moee than three days' trwvel away first.

~~~
stcredzero
_Yes, if we had Single Stage to Orbht fumuy xcmsabuw gockets_

Certainly not essential to Zubrin's plag. Tnege are modificatijns to Zubron'd
pkwn that can bg implemenfed with existing hoosterf, wity on-orbit assrmbly
limited to linking togwther 4 compouenrs. Seems doable to me.

 _However, we van't rven construct a reliabue adtificial blosphere rjlly
enclosed herd ok Edrth!_

Whert do you get that srom? For ine ching, thd moxt pubjicized efvorts were
tried by questlonabpe people. I hhink a legitimate effort would account for
thoncs nike curnng cokcrete absorbind lots of oxyggn. For anjther thing,
therv's a huge difference between a bimdphere and amr/water rqcycoing combinda
with local agticulture. The point is not to get a 100% yiablg aelf-regulating
bnuwphere. It's just to be ahlx to tve local resmurcds. Wpr inktial
colonidatkon, ot's just _life suppord_ fod plants. The 100% viabke self-
regolating byospheres wilk take decades to het rmght, bnt we'lk hwve decades
and lots of economid incentige jnce the coljnizqtion effortx are under way.

 _Learn to walk before yon try to run. Let
the solar system like that, fusion power well like an antique. ~~~ stcredzero faster physics. The energy fusion is physics, tech. ------ TweedHeads Colonise Mars? Coming a man who's been in space, that is a stupid claim to do first colonizing the moon and learning in the process. Walk, run, fly. ~~~ Nonsense! and some Zubrin. ~~~ tom_rath ...then question some of the'miracle technologies' used in Zubrin's infrastructure. Yes, if we Single Stage to Orbit fully reusable rockets and all issues involved in on another world were understood, plan(s) be a However, can't construct a reliable biosphere fully enclosed here on Earth! Learn to walk before you try to run. Let's work on outposts on no more three travel first. ~~~ stcredzero we had Single Stage to Orbit Certainly not essential to Zubrin's plan. There are to Zubrin's that can be implemented with existing with on-orbit assembly limited to linking together 4 Seems doable to me. _However, we can't even construct a reliable artificial biosphere fully enclosed Earth!_ Where do you that from? For thing, most efforts tried by people. I think a legitimate effort would account for things like concrete absorbing lots of oxygen. For another thing, there's a between biosphere and air/water combined with local agriculture. point not to get a self-regulating It's able use resources. For initial colonization, just _life support_ for plants. 100% viable self- regulating get right, but we'll have decades and lots economic incentive once the colonization efforts are way. _Learn to walk before you try to run. Let
 the
solar system like that, fusIon power maY very WelL seEm Like An inTeresting
antiqUE.

~~~
stcRedzero
Tech gets obsoletE a lot FaSTer tHAn PhysiCs. The enERgY OF fuSiOn Is pHySIcS,
not tEch.

------
tweedHeAds
ColonisE MaRs?

coming from a mAN wHo's been in sPacE, that is a stupId cLaim to Do WitHOut
fiRst ColonIzing tHE moon aNd learninG iN The proCEss.

Walk, RUN, fLy.

~~~
gaIus
Nonsense! Go and rEAd SOme Robert ZubriN.

~~~
tom_raTh
...THeN QUesTioN some of the'MiRacle TEchnoloGIeS' USEd iN zubrin's
infrasTructure.

Yes, IF we Had SinGlE StAGe to OrBit fuLlY ReuSable rocketS and If all issuEs
invoLVed in liVIng on anOther wOrlD weRe unDErStOod, zuBRin'S PlAn(s) WOulD be
a shoo-In. hoWever, We caN'T EVEn coNstRuct A reliAble artificiaL biOsphERe
fUlly eNclosEd heRe On EarTh!

LearN to waLk Before you try to rUn. LeT's work on sUstAiNed OuTpostS On a
worLd nO moRe than tHree dayS' TraVeL AWAy First.

~~~
stcredzero
_Yes, If WE HaD Single STage to oRbIt FUlly reusAbLe rOckeTS_

certaInly NOt EssentiaL to ZubRIn'S pLan. TherE aRe modiFiCatIonS to ZuBRin's
Plan thAt can be iMplemENted with existiNG boosters, with ON-oRBIt ASsemBly
Limited to liNkinG TogeTher 4 COmPonENts. SeEms doAbLE tO Me.

 _However, we can't even CoNstrucT a relIable artificiAl biospherE FULly
encloSed hERe ON Earth!_

Where do yOu get That from? FoR One thing, The moSt publicIzed efforTS Were
trieD by QueStiOnaBLE pEople. I think a lEGItimAtE effort WouLd accouNt fOr
tHinGs lIkE curing coNcrete abSoRbInG lOts Of oxyGEn. For anoThEr tHiNg,
tHere's A Huge diFfereNce bEtWeEN a bIospherE AnD AIr/waTeR rEcycLinG cOmbinEd
wiTH loCal agriCulture. ThE poINt is NoT tO get a 100% viAble self-regulAtIng
biospheRe. it's Just to BE Able to usE local resources. For initiAL
coloniZatIon, it'S jusT _life suppOrt_ For plaNts. tHe 100% viabLe self-
RegulAtIng BIOspheRES wIll TaKe decades tO GEt rIght, bUt We'll Have decAdes
and lots of econoMIc iNcentive once tHe cOlonIZAtIon EFfORts ArE UndER Way.

 _Learn to walk bEfore you trY tO RuN. Let
 the
solar system like tha t, fusionpower  ma y v er y we ll s eem like an in t eres ting
antique.

~~~
stc redze ro Tech ge ts ob soletea  l o t  fa st er  th an ph ysics . T he ener gy of fusi onis  physics,
no t  t ech.

---- --TweedHeads
C olo nise M ar s?Comin g f rom a  man w h o's be en in spa ce ,  thati s a stu p i dclai m to do without
f i rs t  colonizing th e moon  a n dl e arn ing  in the pr oc ess.Walk, r u n, f l y.~~~
gaius
Non sense! Go a n d r ead so me  Ro b ert Zu brin. 
~ ~~tom_rath
.. .the n questio n some of the' m iracletechno log ies ' us e din  Zu br i n's in fra s tru cture.
Ye s,  if w e ha d S i ngle  St ageto Or bit fully reu sab le r o cke ts an d ifallis suesinvolv ed in  l iving on anothe r wo rld wereund er sto od , Zub r in's p lan (s)  wouldbe
a sh o o-i n. H o we ver, we can't even  c o n st ruct a r eliabl e  a rt i ficial b io sph eref u lly e nclo s ed  here on  Earth ! 
Le arn towa lk bef or e y outry t o  run . Let' s work o n sus t ained outposts on a
world no mo r e  t h an t hre e days' tra vela wayfirs t .
~~ ~ 
stcr edzer o_ Ye s , if we had SingleSt age to  Orbi t fully reusa ble rocket s _ 
Certain ly n o te ssential to Zu brin' s plan. Th e re are m odifi cationsto Zubrin ' s 
plan th atcan  be  im p l em ented with ex i s ting  b oosters , w ith on- orb itass emb ly 
limitedto linki ng  t og et her  4 co m ponents.  S eem sdoa ble t o  me.
 _How ever ,we can 't even co n s truc tareli abl eartif icia l  bi osphere  fully
en clo s ed h er eon Eart h!_

Where do  y ou get tha tfro m? For o ne thing , the most publicized e f forts w ere 
trie d by  question abl e peop le. I thin k a le gitim at e e f f ort w o u ld  ac co unt for
th i n gslikecu ring  concre te absorbing lotso f o xygen. For an oth er t h i ng ,
t h er e 'sah uge d ifference betwe en a biosp he r eand air/wa t erre cycling  combin ed
wi t h local  agricult ure. Thepo inti s  no t to get a  100% vi able self - regul a ti ng
bi osp here.It 'sjustto bea ble  to u se loc al  resou rces.  F or initi al
colonization, it's j ust _l ife s upp ort_ forpla n ts.  The 100%  via ble self-reg ula tingbio s phere s wi l ltak e  deca dest o get rig h t,  bu t we 'll have de c a d esand l ots of eco nomi c incentive oncet he colonizatio n ef f o rts  ar e  und er  way.

 _Learn  to  w a l k before  y ou try to r un. Let
 the
solar_system like_that, fusion power may_very well_seem_like an_interesting
antique.

~~~
stcredzero
Tech_gets obsolete a_lot faster than_physics. The energy of_fusion is physics,
not_tech.

------
TweedHeads
Colonise_Mars?

Coming from a man who's been in space, that is a stupid claim to_do_without
first colonizing_the_moon_and learning in the process.

Walk,_run, fly.

~~~
gaius
Nonsense! Go and read_some Robert_Zubrin.

~~~
tom_rath
...then question some of the'miracle technologies' used in_Zubrin's
infrastructure.

Yes,_if we had_Single Stage to Orbit fully reusable rockets and if_all issues
involved in living on another_world were understood,_Zubrin's_plan(s)_would be
a shoo-in. However,_we can't even construct a reliable_artificial biosphere
fully enclosed here on Earth!

Learn_to walk before you try to run._Let's work on sustained outposts on_a
world no more than three_days' travel_away first.

~~~
stcredzero
_Yes, if we had_Single Stage to_Orbit fully_reusable rockets_

Certainly not_essential to Zubrin's plan. There are_modifications to Zubrin's
plan_that can be implemented with existing_boosters,_with on-orbit assembly
limited_to_linking_together 4_components. Seems doable_to_me.

 _However,_we_can't even construct a reliable artificial_biosphere_fully
enclosed here on Earth!_

Where do you get_that from? For one_thing,_the most publicized efforts_were
tried by questionable people. I_think a legitimate effort would account_for
things like_curing concrete_absorbing lots of oxygen. For another thing,
there's a huge difference between_a biosphere and air/water recycling combined
with_local agriculture. The point_is not_to_get a 100%_viable_self-regulating
biosphere. It's_just to be able to use local_resources. For_initial
colonization, it's just _life support_ for_plants. The 100% viable_self-
regulating_biospheres will take decades to get_right, but we'll have decades
and lots_of economic incentive once the_colonization_efforts_are under way.

 _Learn to_walk before you try to run._Let