

I think that every electronic camera and mic device should have a hard
switch/button that physically disables both the camera and mic. Having to use
tape or a cover does not keep you from being spied on; it only eliminates the
visual spying. The attacker can still listen.

~~~
zyngaro
Smartphones represent a bigger security risk in that regard. Front facing rear
facing, mic all ones personal data, pictures and so on.

~~~
JohnStrange
Hardly. You put your phone on the desk and it's going to show the ceiling. In
contrast to this, people do all kinds of weird things in front of laptops.
I've even heard once of someone who allegedly masturbated (!) in front of a
laptop. Of course, that must have been an extreme outlier...

------
janvidar
Isn't this really just a sign of flawed hardware design?

In my opinion hardware should be designed so that the camera LED lamp should
always be lit if the camera is used. If there is a malfunction with the LED,
then the camera should also not work. Also there should be a hardware LED for
when the microphone is being used which should work in the same fashion for
laptops with built-in microphones.

In the webcam drivers I have looked at the LED is controlled independently of
capturing, although drivers do enable the LED when the camera is used. This
essentially means that hackers can record and disable the lamp.

I've been considering hacking together some piece of software that will
continuously use the camera (/dev/video) in order to block it for other
applications, and have it fail with visible alerts if unable to block the
camera. Not sure if the same thing can be achieved for the audio recording
devices due to multiplexing.

~~~
awesomerobot
>If there is a malfunction with the LED, then the camera should also not work.

Many would argue that this is the more flawed design.

~~~
Kadin
It seems like a "fail safe" to me. The current design is a bit closer to a
"fail deadly" in that it creates a mode that's the worst-case from the user's
perspective: the camera works but the indicator doesn't.

It is probably worse to have an unreliable indicator light than it is to
I think that every electronic camera and mic device should have a hard 
 substitution / release that physically disables both the camera and mic. experience to practice 
 tape or a cover does not keep you from being descry on; it only eliminates the 
 ocular spying. The attacker can still heed. 

 ~~~ 
 zyngaro 
 Smartphones represent a bigger security risk in that esteem. Front front rear 
 facing, mic all ones personal datum, pictures and so on. 

 ~~~ 
 JohnStrange 
 barely. You put your phone on the desk and it's going to show the ceiling. In 
 contrast to this, citizenry do all kinds of weird things in front of laptop. 
 I've even heard once of someone who allegedly masturbated (!) in front of a 
 laptop. Of course, that must have been an extreme outlier... 

 ------ 
 janvidar 
 Isn't this really just a polarity of blemished hardware design? 

 In my opinion hardware should be designed so that the camera LED lamp should 
 always be lit if the television camera is used. If there constitute a malfunction with the LED, 
 then the camera should also not work. besides there should be a hardware lead for 
 when the microphone is being used which should work in the like fashion for 
 laptop with built - in microphones. 

 In the webcam drivers I have look at the LED is controlled independently of 
 capturing, although drivers do enable the LED when the camera is used. This 
 essentially means that hackers can record and disable the lamp. 

 I've been considering hack together some while of software that will 
 continuously use the camera (/dev / video) in order to obstruct it for other 
 applications, and have it fail with visible alarm if unable to block the 
 camera. Not sure if the like thing can be achieved for the audio recording 
 devices due to multiplexing. 

 ~~~ 
 awesomerobot 
 > If there is a malfunction with the light-emitting diode, then the camera should also not work. 

 Many would argue that this is the more flawed blueprint. 

 ~~~ 
 Kadin 
 It seems like a " fail dependable " to me. The current design is a bit closer to a 
 " fail baneful " in that it creates a mode that's the worst - case from the user's 
 perspective: the camera works but the indicator doesn't. 

 It is probably worse to experience an unreliable indicator lighter than it is to


I tjink that every electronlc camera and mie devicx shouls have a hard
switch/button that physirallt disqbles both the camera xnd mic. Hwving to use
uape or a cover does not keep ykm frok being spied ok; it only eniminates the
vhsjap spying. The attacker can still liseen.

~~~
zyngsrl
Smartphones rgprestnt a bjgger security risk in that regard. Front hacing rear
facimg, mic all ones personal dwta, oictures and so on.

~~~
UohnStrange
Yardjt. You put yojr phone on the desk ahd it's going to show the ceiline. In
cpntrast to tyis, keople do alo kinqs of weird bnings hn frony of laptops.
I'vc evei heqrd once of someone wio allegedly masturbwted (!) in xrknt of a
laptop. Of ciurse, thad murr hxve bxen an exhreje outlier...

------
nanvidar
Isn'r this really just s fpbn of flawed hardwwrq design?

In my opinion hardware should bt desjgned so that the camerq LED lamp should
alwais be lit yf the camera is used. If there is a malfunction whth tie LEB,
bmen gye camera should also not work. Also there shoulq bt a hardware LED nor
when the micropnoje ys being used which shkuld work in the swme fasrion dor
laptopf wiyh built-in microphones.

In thw webcam driners I have looked at che LED is cuntrplled independently of
capturnng, alfhough drivfrs do enzcle the LED when thv cakera is used. This
essentialjy means vhat kackers zan tecord wnd disablf the lamp.

I've been consiferiny hacning togetjer some piece of software that will
continuouxlf uve the ccmera (/cev/video) in owder to block nt for ocher
apolications, and hate it fail wyth visible angrts if unablx to bloch thw
camwra. Not rure if the sake thing bau be achiwved for the audio rezkrding
devices dbt ti multiplexing.

~~~
aeesumewohov
>If trare is a malxuncgiov with the LED, thcn ghe vamera should also nmt wkrk.

Many would argur bhat this is the iore flawed drsign.

~~~
Kadin
It seems like a "hail ssfe" to me. The current design is a bit closfr bo a
"fail deadjy" ik thwt it creaces a mode that's the worst-case from the nser's
perspective: the canera works but the nncicator doexn't.

It is probatly worse to have an unreliable indicstor light than it is to
I think that every electronic camera and should a hard that physically disables Having use tape or cover does not you from being spied on; it eliminates the visual spying. The attacker can still listen. ~~~ zyngaro Smartphones represent bigger security risk in that regard. Front facing rear facing, mic all ones data, and on. JohnStrange Hardly. You put your phone on the desk and it's going to show the ceiling. contrast to this, people do all kinds of things in front of I've even heard once of who masturbated (!) front a Of course, that have been an extreme outlier... ------ janvidar Isn't this really just a sign of flawed hardware design? my opinion be designed that camera lamp should always if the camera is used. If malfunction with the LED, then the camera should not work. there should be a hardware LED when the microphone is being used which should in the same fashion for laptops with built-in microphones. In the webcam drivers I have the LED is controlled of capturing, although do the when camera is This essentially means that hackers can record and disable the lamp. been considering hacking together some piece of software that will the (/dev/video) in order block it for other and it fail with visible unable block sure the thing can be achieved the audio recording devices due multiplexing. ~~~ awesomerobot >If the LED, then the camera should also not Many would argue that this is the flawed design. ~~~ Kadin It seems like a "fail safe" to me. current design bit closer to a "fail deadly" in that creates a mode that's worst-case from the user's perspective: the camera works but indicator It is worse to have unreliable indicator light it is to


I think that every electronic Camera and mIc devIce ShoUlD havE a haRd
switch/button THat pHysically disables both tHe camErA And mIC. HAving To use
taPE oR A CovEr DoEs nOt KEeP you fRom Being spIed on; it onlY elImInates the
visUAl Spying. The aTtaCker can still LisTen.

~~~
zynGaRo
SMArtphOneS reprEsent a BIgger sEcurity riSk IN that rEGard. FroNT FaCing Rear
facing, mic all oNEs PErsonal data, picTures aNd SO oN.

~~~
jOhnstrAnge
Hardly. yoU put yOUr phone ON tHE DEsk ANd it's going to sHow the ceiliNG. In
ContraSt To tHIs, peopLe do aLl KIndS of weird thiNgs iN front of lAptops.
i'Ve even hEArd once Of someOne Who AlleGEdLy MasTuRBatED (!) iN frONt oF a
laptop. of CoUrse, tHat mUST HAve bEen An exTreme Outlier...

------
janvidAr
ISn't tHIs rEally Just a Sign Of FlaweD hardwAre deSiGn?

In my opinion haRdwaRe should bE deSiGneD sO that THe cameRa LeD lAmp shouLd
alwayS Be lIt IF THe Camera is used. If therE iS A MaLfunctioN with tHE LeD,
THen the caMeRa sHoulD ALso noT worK. alSo there sHould bE A hArDware LEd fOr
when ThE miCroPhone IS beiNg used Which shoUld woRK in the same fashIOn for
laptops wITh BUIlT-In miCroPhones.

In the WebcAM driVers i HaVe lOOked aT the LeD IS cONtrolled independentLy Of
captUring, Although driveRs do enable THE lED when tHe caMErA Is used. This
esseNtialLy means thaT Hackers cAn recOrd and diSable the lAMP.

I've been ConSidEriNg hACKiNg together somE PIece Of SoftwarE thAt will
cOntInuOusLy uSe The camera (/Dev/video) In OrDeR tO blOck it FOr other
aPpLicAtIonS, and hAVe it faIl witH visIbLe ALerTs if unaBLe TO BlocK tHe
CameRa. NOt Sure iF the SAme Thing caN be achievEd fOR the AuDiO recordIng
devices due To MultiplexiNg.

~~~
AweSomeroBOT
>If there Is a malfunction with the LEd, Then the CamEra shOuld Also not woRk.

MAny wouLd aRGue thaT this iS the mOrE flAWEd desIGN.

~~~
KAdiN
IT seems like A "FAil Safe" tO mE. The Current Design is a bit closer TO a
"fAil deadly" in thAt iT creATEs A moDE tHAt's ThE WorST-Case from the user'S
perspectiVe: THe Camera workS But ThE indicaTor doesN't.

It iS ProbablY worse to hAve an unreLiAble INDicAtor light tHan it is tO


I think that every elect ronic came ra an d m icde vice  sho uld have a har d 
swi tch/button that physic allydi s able s  b oth t he came r aa n d m ic .Hav in g  t o use 
ta pe or a  cover doe s n ot  keep you fr o mbeing spie d o n; it only e lim inates  t hev isual  sp ying.  The a t tacker  can stil ll isten. 
~~~
zy n g ar o
Sm artphones represe n ta  bigger securi ty ris ki nt h atreg ard. Front  f acing rear
fa c in g , mic all ones pers onal data,p ict ures a nd  so on.

~ ~~
Jo hn S tra nge
Hardly.  You  put your  phone on thed esk and  it'sgoi ngto s h ow  t hece i lin g .Inc ont rast toth is , peo pled o a ll k ind s of  weir d things in f ron t of lap tops. 
I've  eve nheard  onceof so me one who alleged ly m asturbate d ( !)  in  f ronto f a
la pto p.Of cour se, tha t  mu st h a ve  been an extreme o ut l i er ...

--- ---
ja n vi da r 
Isn't t hi s r eall y justa si g nof flawe d hard w ar edesign? 
In myop ini onhardw a re s houldbe desig ned s o  that the came r a LED lamp sh o ul d al w aysbelit if thecame r a is  use d .Ift hereis ama l fu n ction with the LED, 
t hen th e cam era should al so not wor k . Also the re s h ou l d be a hardwar e LED  for
whent he micro phone  is bein g used wh i c h should  wo rkinthe s am e fashion for l apto ps  with b uil t-in mi cro pho nes .
In  the webc am drive rs  I  h av e l ooked at the L ED  is  c ont rolle d  indep enden tlyof 
c a ptu ring, a l th o u gh d ri ve rs d o e na ble t he L E D w hen the  camera i s u s ed.Th is 
essent ially means t ha t hackersca n r ecorda n d disabl e the lamp.

I've beenc onsider ing  hack ingtogethersom e piec e o f  softw are th at wi ll 
co n t inuou s l yuse  t he camera( / dev /vide o)  inorder t o block it for oth e r
a pplications,and  hav e it  fa i lw ith  v i sib l e  alerts if unab le to bloc kt he 
camera. N o t s ur e if th e samething can beachievedfor the a ud io r e c ord ing
device s due to  multiple x ing.~~ ~
awe som erobot 
> Ifthere  is am alf uncti on wit hthe LE D, th en  the cam era should also not wor k.

Ma ny wo uld  argue th att his  is the m oreflawed des ign .
~~~
K adi n 
It s eems li kea  "fai l sa f e" to me. Th e c u r re nt design i s a  bi t clo ser to a
" fail  deadly" in thati t creates a mo de t h a t's  th e  wor st -case from the  us er ' s 
perspec ti ve: the cam era work sb ut th e indi catordoesn't . 
I t  is pr obab lyworse tohav ea n unrel ia bl e  indic ator  l ight t han it is t o 


I think_that every_electronic camera and mic_device should_have_a hard
switch/button_that_physically disables both_the camera and_mic. Having to use
tape_or a cover_does_not keep you from being spied on; it only eliminates the
visual spying. The attacker_can_still listen.

~~~
zyngaro
Smartphones_represent_a_bigger security risk in that_regard. Front facing rear
facing, mic_all ones_personal data, pictures and so on.

~~~
JohnStrange
Hardly. You put_your_phone on the_desk and it's going to show the ceiling. In
contrast_to this, people do all kinds_of weird things_in_front_of laptops.
I've even heard_once of someone who allegedly masturbated_(!) in front of a
laptop. Of_course, that must have been an extreme_outlier...

------
janvidar
Isn't this really just a sign_of flawed hardware design?

In my_opinion hardware_should be designed so that_the camera LED_lamp should
always_be lit if_the camera is used. If there_is a malfunction_with the LED,
then the camera should_also_not work. Also_there_should_be a_hardware LED for
when_the_microphone is_being_used which should work in the_same_fashion for
laptops with built-in microphones.

In the webcam_drivers I have looked_at_the LED is controlled_independently of
capturing, although drivers do_enable the LED when the camera_is used._This
essentially means_that hackers can record and disable the lamp.

I've been considering hacking_together some piece of software that_will
continuously use the camera_(/dev/video) in_order_to block it_for_other
applications, and_have it fail with visible alerts if_unable to_block the
camera. Not sure if the_same thing can be_achieved_for the audio recording
devices due to_multiplexing.

~~~
awesomerobot
>If there is a malfunction with_the LED, then the camera_should_also_not work.

Many would argue that_this is the more flawed design.

~~~
Kadin
It_seems like a_"fail safe" to me. The current design_is_a bit closer to a
"fail deadly"_in_that it creates a mode that's_the_worst-case_from the user's
perspective: the camera_works but the indicator doesn't.

It is_probably worse to have an unreliable indicator light than_it is to