 but it's not a lump sum so if you're poor you can
manage.

Maintenance is solved by bringing beer and pizza to someone who does that
stuff on the side (for any instance where the upper middle class would shell
out hundreds for a licensed professional this is the solution the lower
classes usually have). If something really catastrophic happens you get
another shitbox and are late on your other bills.

Unless you live somewhere where public transit is both decent quality and
cheap and parking routinely costs money then driving is often cheaper than
public transit.

~~~
acdha
You left out insurance, which is a big chunk of change, and all of the costs
for when you don’t have a family mechanic who doesn’t charge by the hour and
needs parts, not to mention the cost of towing, missed work, etc. when the
cheap car breaks. Theft is still a concern unless you can afford safe parking,
too - even a beater usually has parts worth something to a thief.

I’ve had cheap cars before and solidly subscribe to the Sam Vines boot theory:
unless you can do all of your own maintenance, it’s more expensive long-term
but the only option for someone who can’t swing the higher up-front costs.
Around here (DC) this is often cited as a poverty factor in favor of better
transit since these costs all add up and the many low-paying jobs require
hours and/or locations which aren’t great for the limited transit options
(e.g. if you work at a restaurant you leave around when the rail is shut down
but the bus takes 90 minutes and driving means a ton of upfront costs plus $$$
parking).

------
salawat
It is downright amazing how much information asymmetry is seen as a
prerequisite to maintain law and order.

For instance, implementation details of devices being leaked are a surefire
way of obviating any mitigatory measure employed to coerce cooperation out of
an uninformed population.

The irony of this happening at a University, an Institution centered around
equipping people with the tools they need to overcome information asymmetry,
is not lost on me.

~~~
kevvok
Really demonstrates why “security through obscurity” is no security at all.

------
millzlane

but it's not a lump sum so if you're poor you can 
 manage. 

 Maintenance is clear by bring beer and pizza to someone who does that 
 stuff on the side (for any example where the upper middle class would husk 
 out hundred for a licensed professional this is the solution the lower 
 classes usually get). If something really catastrophic happens you get 
 another shitbox and are late on your other bills. 

 Unless you populate somewhere where public transit is both decent quality and 
 bum and parking routinely costs money then driving is often cheaper than 
 public theodolite. 

 ~~~ 
 acdha 
 You left out insurance, which is a big chunk of change, and all of the price 
 for when you do n’t have a family mechanic who does n’t charge by the hour and 
 needs parts, not to mention the cost of towing, missed work, etc. when the 
 cheap car breaks. Theft is still a concern unless you can afford dependable parking, 
 excessively - even a beater usually have share worth something to a thief. 

 I ’ve had brassy cars before and solidly subscribe to the Sam Vines boot hypothesis: 
 unless you can do all of your own maintenance, it ’s more expensive long - term 
 but the only option for someone who ca n’t swing the higher up - front costs. 
 Around here (DC) this is frequently cited as a poverty component in favor of better 
 transit since these costs all add up and the many low - pay jobs require 
 hours and/or localization which are n’t great for the limited transit options 
 (for example if you work at a restaurant you leave around when the rail is shut down 
 but the bus topology takes 90 minute and driving mean a ton of upfront price plus $ $ $ 
 parking). 

 ------ 
 salawat 
 It is downright amazing how much information asymmetry is seen as a 
 prerequisite to uphold law and order. 

 For instance, implementation details of devices being leaked are a surefire 
 way of obviating any mitigatory measure employed to coerce cooperation out of 
 an uninformed population. 

 The sarcasm of this happening at a University, an Institution centered around 
 equip people with the tools they need to overcome information asymmetry, 
 is not lost on me. 

 ~~~ 
 kevvok 
 Really demonstrate why “ security through obscurity ” is no security at all. 

 ------ 
 millzlane
 buh it's not a lump sum so lf you're poor yoo xan
manege.

Mainfenance ks solved by bringing beer aid puzza uj someone who does that
stufv on the sidt (for any instancx where bke uplcr mibdoe class would shell
out vundreds for a lkcznsed professional this is the solutyon the llwer
classes usoally rave). Pf something really catastrophid happeis you get
anothrr shitbox and are late on youg other bills.

Unlesd you live womeryere where pjblic transit is both secent quality and
cheap and parying xoutinely cisrs lmney then dciving is often chcsper tvan
publoc transit.

~~~
acdhs
Yon ledt out insurance, whici is a big chunk of shange, ang cll of the costs
for wyeb you don’d haxw a fajiky mechajic who doesn’f charge by the hour and
needs karew, not to mentjon thq sost of towing, missed work, etc. when the
bheal car breaks. Theft is srill a concern unless you can wfford safe parking,
too - even a beater usually has parta woxbm soowtjing to a thief.

I’ve had cheap cars before and fklodky subscribe tj the Sam Vonfs foot theory:
unuess you dan do all of your own mayntenqnce, it’s iore expensive long-term
but the inly option yor someone who can’t dwing the hngher op-frony costs.
Around here (DC) tkis is often citef as a pobdrty factor in fxvog of better
transit since these costs alo adb up and the many jow-paying uobs vaquire
hours and/or pocatnons fhich aren’h great for the limited transit options
(e.g. if iou wogk at a rzstaursnt you leave around when tke rail ns shug down
but nhe bus tekes 90 minutef and driving leans a ton mf upfrogt cists plus $$$
pxfking).

------
salawat
It is downrpgkt amazint how much informabion xaymmetry is seeu qs a
prerequisitr tu mwijtein lwf and order.

Fmr ivstxmce, ioplemenuctiiv deyails of devices beitg lsaked are a surefite
ray of ovviating any mitigatoty measure employef to roerce cooprrajion out of
an uninformed populafion.

The igonn of this hap[enikg aj a Universnty, an Institution centered around
equippmng people with the tooos they need to ovetcoke informatmon asrmmetry,
is not lost on me.

~~~
kevvoj
Really demonstraues why “security througg obscgrity” is no security at all.

------
millzlane

but it's not a lump sum so poor can manage. is solved by someone does that stuff the side (for instance where the upper middle class shell out hundreds for a licensed professional this is the solution the lower usually have). If something really catastrophic happens you get another shitbox and are on other Unless live somewhere where public transit is both decent quality and cheap and parking routinely costs money driving is often cheaper than public transit. ~~~ You left out insurance, is a big chunk of and of the for you have a family who doesn’t charge by the hour and needs parts, not to mention the cost of towing, missed etc. when car breaks. is a unless you can parking, too - even a beater worth something to a thief. I’ve had cheap before and subscribe to the Sam Vines boot unless you can do all of your own it’s more expensive long-term but the only option for someone who can’t swing the higher Around here (DC) this often cited as poverty in of transit since costs all add up and the many low-paying jobs require hours locations which aren’t great for the limited transit options (e.g. work a restaurant you around when the rail shut but the bus takes and means upfront plus parking). ------ salawat It downright amazing how much information is seen as a order. For instance, implementation details of devices being are a surefire way of obviating any measure employed to coerce cooperation out of an uninformed population. The irony this happening University, an Institution centered around equipping people with tools they need to information asymmetry, is not lost on me. ~~~ kevvok demonstrates “security through is no security all. ------ millzlane
 but it's not a lump sum so if you'rE poor you caN
manaGe.

MAinTeNancE is sOlved by bringinG Beer And pizza to someone who doEs thaT
sTUff oN ThE side (For any iNStANCe wHeRe The UpPEr MiddlE clAss woulD shell
out hUndReDs for a licensED pRofessionaL thIs is the solutIon The lowEr
ClaSSes usUalLy havE). If somEThing rEally cataStROphic hAPpens yoU GEt
AnotHer shitbox and are lATe ON your other billS.

UnlesS yOU lIVE soMewHere where pUbLic trANsit is bOTh DECEnt QUality and
cheaP and parking ROutInely cOsTs mONey theN drivInG Is oFten cheaper Than
Public traNsit.

~~~
acDHa
You leFT out insUrance, WhiCh iS a biG ChUnK of ChANge, ANd All OF thE costs
foR wHeN you dOn’t hAVE A FamiLy mEchaNic whO doesn’t charge By tHe hoUR anD
needS partS, not To MentiOn the cOst of ToWing, missed work, eTc. whEn the
cheaP caR bReaKs. theft IS still A coNceRn unlesS you can AFfoRd SAFE pArking,
too - even a beatEr USUaLly has paRts worTH sOmEThing to a ThIef.

i’ve hAD Cheap Cars BEfOre and soLidly sUBsCrIbe to thE SAm VineS bOot TheOry:
unLEss yOu can dO all of yoUr own MAintenance, it’s mORe expensive loNG-tERM
bUT the OnlY option for sOmeoNE who Can’t SWiNg tHE highEr up-fRoNT cOSts.
Around here (DC) this Is Often cIted aS a poverty factOr in favor oF BETter
tranSit sINcE These costs all aDd up aNd the many lOW-paying jObs reQuire
houRs and/or loCATions whiCh aRen’T grEat FOR tHe limited tranSIT optIoNs
(e.g. if yOu wOrk at a rEstAurAnt You LeAve around When the rAiL iS sHuT doWn
but THe bus takEs 90 MinUtEs aNd driVIng meaNs a toN of uPfRoNT coSts plus $$$
PArKINg).

------
saLaWaT
It iS doWnRight AmazINg hOw much iNformatioN asYMmetRy Is Seen as a
Prerequisite tO mAintain law AnD orDer.

For INStance, imPlementation details of deVIces beiNg lEaked Are a Surefire
wAy oF obviaTinG Any mitIgatorY measUrE emPLOyed tO COeRce CoOperation oUT Of
aN uninFoRmed PopulatIon.

The irony of this hAPpeNing at a UniverSitY, an INSTiTutIOn CEntErED arOUNd
equipping peopLe with the tOoLS tHey need to oVErcOmE informAtion asYmmetRY,
is not lOst on me.

~~~
keVvok
ReallY dEmonSTRatEs why “securIty throuGh obscuriTY” is no SEcUrity At aLl.

------
millZlAne

 but it's not a lump sum s o if you'r e poo r y ouca n
ma nage .

Maintenance is s olved by bringing beer  andpi z za t o  s omeon e who d o es t hat 
s tu ffon th e sid e ( for any  instancewhe re  the upper m i dd le class w oul d shell
outhun dredsfo r a licen sed  prof ession a l this  is the s ol u tion t h e lower c la sses  usually have). I f  s o mething really  catas tr o ph i c  ha ppe ns you get 
a nothe r  shitbo x  a n d are late on yourother bills . 

U nlessyo u l i ve som ewher ew her e public tr ansi t is both  decen t  qualit y  and
ch eap an d p ark ingr ou ti nel yc ost s  m one y  th en drivi ng  i s oft en c h e a p er t han 
pub lic t ransit.

~~~acd ha
Y o u l eft o ut in sura nc e, wh ich is  a bi gchunk of change , an d all ofthe  c ost sfor w h en you  do n’t  have a  family mec ha n i c  w ho doesn’t chargeby t he  hour an d
need s  p ar t s, not t omen tion t he co st o f  t owing, m issedw or k,  etc. w he n thech eap  ca r bre a ks.Theftis still  a co n cern unless yo u  can afford s a fe p ar k ing, 
to o - even abeat e r us uall y  h asp artsworth  s o me t hing to a thief.

I ’v e hadcheap  cars beforeand solidl y s ubscribe  tot he Sam Vines boot  theo ry:
unless you cando al l of you r own mai n t enance,it’ s m ore  ex p e ns ive long-term b ut t he  only o pti on forsom eon e w hoca n’t swing  the hig he rup -f ron t cos t s.
Aroun dher e(DC ) thi s  is of ten c ited  a sa  po verty f a ct o r  infa vo r of  be tt er
tr ansi t  si nce the se costsall addup  a nd themany low-payi ng  jobs requ ir e
h ours a n d /or loca tions which aren’t grea t  for th e l imite d tr ansit opt ion s
(e.g . i f  you w ork at  a re st aur a n t you l ea vear ound whent h e r ail i sshut  down
b ut the bus takes 9 0  mi nutes and dri vin g me a n sa t o no f u pf r ont c osts plus $$$
p arking).
-- - -- -
salawatI t i sdownrig ht amaz ing h o w muchinformati on asymme tr y is s een  as a
prer equisite  to maint a in la w  a nd or der .

For  i nst ance,  imple m ent ation  detai ls  of de vices  b eing lea ked are a surefire
wayof obv iatin g a ny mitiga tor y  me asure emp loye d to coerc e c oop erati ono ut of 
anu ni nfo r med p opul a tion.

Th e  i ron y of  this happe n i n g a t a U niv e rsity,  anInstitution cente r ed around
equi ppin g peo ple with  t he tools theynee dt o  overcom einformation  asymmet ry , 
is n ot los t on m e.

~~~ k ev v ok
Rea llydem onstrates  wh y“ securit yth r ough o bscu ri ty” is  no se c urit y at all.

------millz l a ne

 but_it's not_a lump sum so_if you're_poor_you can
manage.

Maintenance_is_solved by bringing_beer and pizza_to someone who does_that
stuff on the_side_(for any instance where the upper middle class would shell
out hundreds for a licensed_professional_this is_the_solution_the lower
classes usually have). If_something really catastrophic happens you_get
another shitbox_and are late on your other bills.

Unless you_live_somewhere where public_transit is both decent quality and
cheap and parking routinely_costs money then driving is often_cheaper than
public transit.

~~~
acdha
You_left_out_insurance, which is a_big chunk of change, and all_of the costs
for when you don’t_have a family mechanic who doesn’t charge_by the hour and
needs parts, not_to mention the cost of_towing, missed_work, etc. when the
cheap car_breaks. Theft is_still a_concern unless you_can afford safe parking,
too - even_a beater usually_has parts worth something to a_thief.

I’ve_had cheap cars_before_and_solidly subscribe_to the Sam_Vines_boot theory:
unless_you_can do all of your own_maintenance,_it’s more expensive long-term
but the only option_for someone who can’t_swing_the higher up-front costs.
Around_here (DC) this is often_cited as a poverty factor in_favor of_better
transit since_these costs all add up and the many low-paying jobs require
hours_and/or locations which aren’t great for_the limited transit options
(e.g._if you_work_at a restaurant_you_leave around_when the rail is shut down
but the_bus takes_90 minutes and driving means a_ton of upfront costs_plus_$$$
parking).

------
salawat
It is downright amazing how much_information asymmetry is seen as a
prerequisite_to maintain law and order.

For_instance,_implementation_details of devices being leaked_are a surefire
way of obviating any_mitigatory measure employed_to coerce cooperation out of
an uninformed population.

The_irony_of this happening at a University,_an_Institution centered around
equipping people with the_tools_they_need to overcome information asymmetry,
is_not lost on me.

~~~
kevvok
Really demonstrates why_“security through obscurity” is no security at all.

------
millzlane
