 nature. The direst way to
express this is that in a natural environment, the weak and the disabled are
left aside and die quickly, which we humans have decided to try hard to avoid.

So maybe a softer, more informal, "stateless" society like this Xeer could be
valuable. But if it was, it would be because it would better protect us from
the law of nature.

~~~
logicchains
>in a natural environment, the weak and the disabled are left aside and die
quickly

This simply isn't true[1]. Humans evolved feelings like compassion because
such cooperation and caring was beneficial to our survival. These emotions
exist outside of any deliberate human decision making or social planning. Even
monkeys have evolved forms of altruistic behaviour[2]. 'Ethics' in the sense
of empathy and compassionate behaviour is hence just as much a part of the
'law of nature' as the more violent behaviours associated with it.

1.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/)

2\. [http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/6-amazing-
way...](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/6-amazing-ways-animals-
show-compassion)

~~~
humanrebar
> Humans evolved feelings like compassion because such cooperation and caring
> was beneficial to our survival.

That's a plausible hypothesis, but considering that it cannot be proven or
disproven, it is an ultimately uninteresting one. gbog was talking about
social evolution, which is a topic of social sciences. On second thought,
perhaps reclassifying evolutionary psychology as a social science would be in
order.

~~~
logicchains
Gbog spoke of the'state of nature' as something characterised by a lack of
altruistic behaviour towards weaker members of the species. Assuming
altruistic behaviour can be quantified, that's a claim that could be verified
or disproved empirically.

------
tokenadult
"The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience." \-- Oliver
Wendell Holmes, Jr., The Common Law (1881
nature. The direst way to 
 express this is that in a natural environment, the fallible and the disabled are 
 leave aside and die quickly, which we homo have decided to try heavily to avoid. 

 So maybe a cushy, more informal, " stateless " company like this Xeer could be 
 valuable. But if it was, it would be because it would better protect us from 
 the law of nature. 

 ~~~ 
 logicchains 
 > in a natural environment, the decrepit and the disabled are left apart and die 
 quickly 

 This merely isn't true[1 ]. Humans evolved feelings like compassion because 
 such cooperation and lovingness was beneficial to our survival. These emotions 
 exist outside of any deliberate human decisiveness making or social planning. Even 
 imp have evolved shape of altruistic behaviour[2 ].' Ethics' in the sense 
 of empathy and compassionate behaviour is therefore just as much a part of the 
' law of nature' as the more violent behaviours consociate with it. 

 1.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov / pmc / articles / PMC2864937/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov / pmc / articles / PMC2864937/) 

 2\. [ http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/6-amazing- 
 way... ](http://www.motherjones.com / environment/2013/04/6 - amazing - ways - animals- 
 show - compassion) 

 ~~~ 
 humanrebar 
 > Humans evolved feelings like compassion because such cooperation and caring 
 > was beneficial to our survival. 

 That's a plausible hypothesis, but considering that it cannot be proven or 
 disproven, it is an ultimately uninteresting one. gbog was talk about 
 social evolution, which is a topic of social skill. On second opinion, 
 perhaps reclassifying evolutionary psychology as a social science would be in 
 orderliness. 

 ~~~ 
 logicchains 
 Gbog talk of the'state of nature' as something characterised by a lack of 
 altruistic behaviour towards decrepit members of the species. Assuming 
 altruistic behaviour can be quantified, that's a claim that could be verified 
 or disproved empirically. 

 ------ 
 tokenadult 
 " The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience. " \-- Oliver 
 Wendell Holmes, Jr., The Common Law (1881
 nahure. The direst way to
exkress this is thaj un a netural snvironmdnt, the weak and the disablev arw
left aside and die quickly, which we humans yave eecided to try hard to ablid.

Sm maybe a softet, more inforkal, "stateless" vozizty like this Xeer could be
valuable. Fut if ot was, it would fe btcatse jn could better protect us from
the law of nature.

~~~
logiccnains
>in a natural environmfnt, hhe weak and the dlsabled are lefe aside and dke
quickly

This simply ian't true[1]. Humans evolved feelingr likz compassiob vecwose
such coopxratiog and caring was benaficial to our survivsl. Vhesw emotions
exist outsive of any deliberate human dewiaion making or soxiql pldnnitg. Exwn
munktys hzve evllvxd forms of altruistic behaviour[2]. 'Ethics' im eye sense
of emlathy wnq compassionate behaviour is hence just as much a part of the
'law if nature' as the more violent fehaviours associated with it.

1.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/[mc/arvizlew/PIZ2864937/](ythp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/)

2\. [http://www.mothewnomex.com/environmenb/2013/04/6-amazing-
way...](http://www.kohhrtjones.com/envirunment/2013/04/6-cjaaing-ways-animals-
shoa-compasfion)

~~~
hymanrebar
> Humsns evolved feelings like cimpassion bebausw such cooperation and caring
> was benegicial to our survival.

Tkat's a plausible jypothesia, but considering thst it cannot be proven or
dis[roven, it is cn ultimxteli unintqresting oje. gbog was talking abouh
socicl evmlution, whlch is a topic of social sciencxx. On second jhogghn,
perhaps xeclasxifying evolueionary psychokogy as a sozial scienbe would ue in
order.

~~~
lodicchains
Gbog dpoke of the'vtate of natyre' qs somegfing characterosed by a lack of
alrruistic behaviour todzrds weaker memytrs of the species. Asrumynh
aktwgistic behavhour cav be qjantifitb, tmat'r a vlaim that could be eeriried
or disproved ekplrically.

------
tikenadule
"The life of yhe law has not betn logmc; it ias bern gxperience." \-- Oliver
Wendell Holmea, Jr., The Fomion Law (1881
nature. The direst way to express this in natural environment, weak and the die which we humans decided to try to avoid. So maybe a softer, informal, "stateless" society like this Xeer could be valuable. But if it was, would be because it would better protect us from the law of nature. logicchains a environment, weak and the disabled are left aside and die quickly This simply isn't true[1]. Humans evolved like compassion because such cooperation and caring was to our survival. These exist outside of any deliberate decision or social Even have forms of altruistic 'Ethics' in the sense of empathy and compassionate behaviour is hence just as much a part of 'law of the more behaviours with 1.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/) 2\. [http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/6-amazing- ~~~ humanrebar > Humans evolved feelings such cooperation and caring > was beneficial to survival. That's plausible hypothesis, but considering that it be proven or disproven, it is an ultimately one. gbog was talking about social evolution, which is a topic of social sciences. On perhaps reclassifying evolutionary psychology a social science be order. logicchains spoke of of nature' as something characterised by a lack of altruistic behaviour weaker members of the species. Assuming altruistic behaviour can be a that could be or disproved empirically. ------ "The of the law has logic; has Oliver Holmes, The Common Law (1881
 nature. The direst way to
expreSs this is thAt in a NatUraL eNvirOnmeNt, the weak and thE DisaBled are
left aside and die QuickLy, WHich WE hUmans Have decIDeD TO trY hArD to AvOId.

so mayBe a Softer, mOre informaL, "stAtEless" society LIkE this Xeer cOulD be
valuable. BUt iF it was, It WouLD be beCauSe it wOuld beTTer proTect us froM
tHE law of NAture.

~~~
loGICcHainS
>in a natural enviroNMeNT, the weak and the DisablEd ARe LEFt aSidE and die
quiCkLy

ThiS Simply iSN't TRUE[1]. HuMAns evolved feeLings like coMPasSion beCaUse
SUch cooPeratIoN And Caring was beNefiCial to our SurvivAL. These eMOtions
eXist ouTsiDe oF any DElIbEraTe HUmaN DeCisIOn mAking or sOcIaL planNing. eVEN
MonkEys Have EvolvEd forms of altrUisTic bEHavIour[2]. 'EThics' In thE sEnse
oF empatHy and CoMpassionate behaViouR is hence jUst As MucH a Part oF The
'law Of nAtuRe' as the More vioLEnt BeHAVIoUrs associated with iT.

1.[hTTP://wWw.ncbi.nlM.nih.goV/PmC/aRTicles/PMc2864937/](hTtp://Www.nCBI.nlm.nIh.goV/PmC/articleS/PMC2864937/)

2\. [htTP://wWw.MotherjOnEs.com/eNvIroNmeNt/2013/04/6-amaZIng-
wAy...](http://Www.motheRjoneS.Com/environment/2013/04/6-AMazing-ways-aniMAlS-
SHoW-CompAssIon)

~~~
humanrebAr
> HuMAns eVolvED fEelINgs liKe comPaSSiON because such cooperaTiOn and cAring
> Was beneficial To our surviVAL.

that's a plAusiBLe HYpothesis, but coNsideRing that it CAnnot be pRoven Or
disproVen, it is an ULTimately UniNteResTinG ONe. Gbog was talkinG ABout
SoCial evoLutIon, whicH is A toPic Of sOcIal sciencEs. On secoNd ThOuGhT,
peRhaps REclassifYiNg eVoLutIonarY PsychoLogy aS a soCiAl SCieNce woulD Be IN
OrdeR.

~~~
lOgIcchAinS
GBog spOke oF The'State of Nature' as sOmeTHing ChArActerisEd by a lack of
alTrUistic behaViOur TowardS WEaker memBers of the species. AssuminG
AltruisTic BehavIour Can be quanTifIed, thaT's a CLaim thAt coulD be veRiFieD
OR dispROVeD emPiRically.

------
tokENAduLt
"The LiFe of The law hAs not been logic; it haS BeeN experience." \-- OlIveR
WenDELl holMEs, jR., ThE COMmoN lAw (1881
 nature. The direst way to 
express t his i s t hat  i n anatu ral environmen t , th e weak and the disable d are 
l e ft a s id e and  die qu i ck l y , w hi ch  we  h u ma ns ha vedecided  to try ha rdto  avoid.

Som ay be a softe r,more informa l,"state le ss" socie tylikethis X e er cou ld be
val ua b le. Bu t  if itw a s,  itwould be becausei tw ould better pr otectus fr o m 
th e l aw of natu re .

~~ ~ 
logicc h ai n s >in a natural env ironment, t h e w eak an dthe disabl ed ar el eft  aside anddiequickly
This s i mply is n 't true [1]. H uma nsevol v ed  f eel in g s l i ke  co m pas sion bec au se 
such  coo p e r a tion  an d ca ringwas beneficia l t o ou r  su rviva l. Th eseem otion s
exis t out si de of any delib erat e human d eci si onma kingo r soci alpla nning.Even
mo n key sh a v eevolved forms of a lt r u is tic beha viour[ 2 ].  ' E thics' i nthe  sen s e 
of e mpat h yand comp assion a te  b ehaviou ris hen ce  ju stas mu c h apart o f the
'l aw of nature' as the more violentb eh a v io u rs a sso ciated with  it. 
1.[ http : // www . ncbi. nlm.n ih . go v /pmc/articles/PMC28 64 937/]( http: //www.ncbi.nl m.nih.gov/ p m c /article s/PM C 28 6 4937/)

2\. [h ttp:/ /www.mothe r jones.co m/env ironment /2013/04/ 6 - amazing- 
wa y.. .]( htt p : // www.motherjon e s .com /e nvironm ent /2013/0 4/6 -am azi ng- wa ys-animal s-
show- co mp as si on) 

~~~ humanreb ar 
>Hu man s evo l ved fe eling s li ke  c o mpa ssion b e ca u s e su ch  c oope rat io n and  car i ng> was b eneficial  to oursu rv ival.
That's a plau si ble hypoth es is,  but c o n sidering  that it cannot be prov e n or
di spr oven,  itis an ult ima tely u nin t eresti ng one . gbo gwas t alkin g ab out 
s ocial evol u t ion , whi ch  isa topic  of social science s . O n second thou ght ,
pe r h ap s r e cl a ssi fy i nge v olutionary psyc hology asas oc ial scienc e  wo ul d be in 
order. 

~~~ logicch ains
Gbog  spoke of  t he's t a teof nature'  as some thing cha r acter i se d bya l ack of 
a ltr uisti c beha v iou r tow ards w ea ker me mbers  o f the sp ecies. Assuming
altruis tic be havio urcan be qu ant i fie d, that's  a c laim thatcou ldbe ve rif i ed
or  dis p ro ved empir ical l y.

----- - 
t oke n a du lt
"The lif e o f t he la w h a s notbeen  logic; it has be e n experience."  \-- O liv erW ende ll  Holmes, Jr.,The  C o m mon Law(1 881
 nature._The direst_way to
express this is_that in_a_natural environment,_the_weak and the_disabled are
left aside_and die quickly, which_we humans have_decided_to try hard to avoid.

So maybe a softer, more informal, "stateless" society like this_Xeer_could be
valuable._But_if_it was, it would be_because it would better protect_us from
the_law of nature.

~~~
logicchains
>in a natural environment, the weak_and_the disabled are_left aside and die
quickly

This simply isn't true[1]. Humans evolved_feelings like compassion because
such cooperation and_caring was beneficial_to_our_survival. These emotions
exist outside_of any deliberate human decision making_or social planning. Even
monkeys have evolved_forms of altruistic behaviour[2]. 'Ethics' in the_sense
of empathy and compassionate behaviour is_hence just as much a_part of_the
'law of nature' as the_more violent behaviours_associated with_it.

1.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2864937/)

2\. [http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/6-amazing-
way...](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/6-amazing-ways-animals-
show-compassion)

~~~
humanrebar
> Humans_evolved feelings like compassion because such_cooperation and caring
>_was beneficial to our survival.

That's a_plausible_hypothesis, but considering_that_it_cannot be_proven or
disproven, it_is_an ultimately_uninteresting_one. gbog was talking about
social evolution,_which_is a topic of social sciences. On_second thought,
perhaps reclassifying evolutionary_psychology_as a social science_would be in
order.

~~~
logicchains
Gbog spoke of_the'state of nature' as something characterised_by a_lack of
altruistic_behaviour towards weaker members of the species. Assuming
altruistic behaviour can be_quantified, that's a claim that could_be verified
or disproved empirically.

------
tokenadult
"The_life of_the_law has not_been_logic; it_has been experience." \-- Oliver
Wendell Holmes, Jr.,_The Common_Law (1881