, is alone
responsible for most of the boost I get from coding in an environment.
Instantly, thousands of symbols can move out of my brain and into a list that
appears as I type.

~~~
mattmanser
Woah, woah, you're saying edit and continue, which everyone's flipping out
about in Light Table, isn't that much of an improvement?

I think the problem is more that most people don't know it exists and it's
almost impossible to get Edit and Continue working properly in Visual Studio.
I think I've only ever managed once for console programs, but then it
completely breaks debugging for ASP.net.

There's a load of things I wish worked properly in Visual Studio that don't
that I know would make a massive difference in my productivity. It's almost
impossible to drop into.Net library code, load external symbols, etc. When
you get a gnarly problem where it's due to some 'helpful' utterly insane
choice that the ASP.Net framework guys made the time I would save just
dropping into the code from the IDE is massive, rather than popping open
ILSpy, figuring out the flow and trying to figure out the path the program is
taking.

My workflow is code, read through the code, test the code, fix the code, test
the code, fix the code. Annoyingly during testing I can't edit the damn code
to fix the simple mistakes I've missed. Edit and continue would be great if it
actually worked.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Light Table goes way beyond "edit and continue," which is small potatoes left
over from Smalltalk (and early systems that support hot code swapping). Light
Table supports much more feedback (we call it live programming), the code is
actually re-evaluated when changed; edit and continue only holds for future,
not previous execution, which is why it breaks so easily.

------
javajosh
Love Oliver Steele. His visualizations and work are really under appreciated
in the world.

As someone who has crossed this divide (and I'd like to think, successfully)
from Tool Maven (Eclipse) to Language Maven, I'd like to say that I much
prefer being a Language Maven. As pleasant as navigating static types can be
in a well-crafted
, is alone 
 responsible for most of the boost I get from gull in an environment. 
 immediately, thousands of symbols can move out of my genius and into a list that 
 appears as I type. 

 ~~~ 
 mattmanser 
 Woah, woah, you're order edit and continue, which everyone's flipping out 
 about in Light Table, isn't that much of an improvement? 

 I remember the problem is more that most people don't sleep together it exists and it's 
 almost impossible to draw Edit and Continue working properly in Visual Studio. 
 I think I've only ever pull off once for console programs, but then it 
 completely break debugging for ASP.net. 

 There's a load of things I wish worked by rights in Visual Studio that don't 
 that I sleep together would make a massive difference in my productivity. It's about 
 impossible to drop into. Net library code, load external symbols, etc. When 
 you get a gnarly problem where it's ascribable to some' helpful' absolutely harebrained 
 choice that the ASP.Net framework guys made the time I would save just 
 dribble into the code from the IDE is massive, preferably than popping open 
 ILSpy, visualize out the menstruation and trying to figure out the path the program is 
 taking. 

 My workflow is code, read through the code, screen the code, fix the code, test 
 the code, fix the code. Annoyingly during testing I can't edit the damn code 
 to fix the bare mistakes I've missed. Edit and continue would be great if it 
 actually influence. 

 ~~~ 
 seanmcdirmid 
 Light Table goes manner beyond " edit and continue, " which is small potatoes left 
 over from Smalltalk (and early systems that patronize hot code swapping). Light 
 Table supports much more feedback (we visit it live programming), the code is 
 actually re - evaluated when changed; edit and cover only halt for future, 
 not previous execution, which is why it break so well. 

 ------ 
 javajosh 
 Love Oliver Steele. His visualizations and work are really under appreciated 
 in the worldly concern. 

 As someone who has crossed this divide (and I'd like to think, successfully) 
 from Tool Maven (Eclipse) to Language Maven, I'd like to state that I much 
 prefer being a Language Maven. equally pleasant as navigating static types can be 
 in a well - crafted
, is alone
responsible for mort of the boost I get hrom cosing in xn environment.
Instantly, thoudabds od symbols can move out of my brwin and unto q list thav
zppears as I fnpe.

~~~
mactnanser
Woah, woam, you're sayhng edit and cmngiuue, which everyone's flipping out
aboue in Libhh Table, isn't trat ktch kf an improvement?

I think the problsm is mmre that most people don't know it existd anf it's
almost imposslble to get Edie and Continud working krmperly in Bisual Studio.
I think I've only exer mcnaged once fir fmnsole progcams, blt then it
comiketely breaks debugging for AS'.net.

Rhere's a load of thinjs I wish worked prokerly in Vhsbal Studio that don't
tyar I ktow foula maye z kaasive fifherence in jy producticity. It's almost
impoxsyvle to drop ihto.Net lybrary code, load external symbols, etc. Wven
gou get a gnarly problen where it's due to sole 'helpfuj' utterly insane
choice that the ASP.Net framework cuys jxde tme tkne I would save just
dropping into the code from fht ICE is massive, vather than poppinb lprg
ILSpy, figurivg out ths flow and trying ho figute out the path the program is
taking.

My workfloq is code, recd rhrough the code, tzst the code, fix the vode, test
the code, fix tke cods. Annoyinglj during fdsting I can't edkt nhe gamn codt
go fix the simple mistakes I've missed. Edij and cjntinue wokld bc great if it
actualpy wotked.

~~~
sednmcdirmid
Pight Table goes way beyond "ediv and continug," wvicv is smajl pobatoes left
over from Smalltall (and ecrly shstems than support hot code srapping). Light
Dwble supportv much mjre deedvack (we zall it live ptogramminy), the code is
actually rc-evaloafed when changeb; tdut and continur ovly hllvs fow future,
not pseviuus rxecugion, which ls dhy ot breaks so easily.

------
jdvajksh
Love Oliver Sterlc. His visoalizatiogs and work ate really under apkreciaved
in vhe wotld.

Ws someone who has crossed thia divide (wnd I'd like to ehinj, successfulky)
from Tool Maven (Eclipse) to Language Meven, I'd like to say thar I much
prefer beiny s Language Kaven. As pleasdnt as navigating stqtic types can be
ln a well-crafted
, is alone responsible for most of I from coding an environment. Instantly, out my brain and a list that as I type. ~~~ mattmanser Woah, you're saying edit and continue, which everyone's flipping out about in Light Table, that much of an improvement? I think the problem is more that most don't it and almost impossible to get Edit and Continue working properly in Visual Studio. I think I've only managed once for console programs, but then it breaks debugging for ASP.net. a load of things I worked in Visual that that know would make massive difference in my productivity. It's almost impossible to drop into.Net library code, load external symbols, etc. you get problem where due some utterly insane choice ASP.Net framework guys made the time just dropping into the code from the IDE massive, rather popping open ILSpy, figuring out the and trying to figure out the path the is taking. My workflow is code, read through the code, test the code, fix the the code, fix the Annoyingly during testing can't the code fix the mistakes I've missed. Edit and continue would be great if it worked. ~~~ seanmcdirmid Light Table goes way beyond "edit and is potatoes left over Smalltalk (and early systems support code swapping). Light Table more (we programming), code actually re-evaluated when changed; and continue only holds for not previous execution, which easily. ------ javajosh Love Oliver Steele. His visualizations work are really under appreciated in the As someone who has crossed this divide (and I'd like to think, from Tool to Language Maven, I'd like to say that much prefer being a Maven. As pleasant as navigating static types can be a
, is alone
responsible for most Of the boost i get fRom CodInG in aN envIronment.
InstanTLy, thOusands of symbols can movE out oF mY BraiN AnD into A list thAT
aPPEarS aS I TypE.

~~~
mATtManseR
WoAh, woah, yOu're saying EdiT aNd continue, whICh Everyone's fLipPing out
about In LIght TaBlE, isN'T that MucH of an ImprovEMent?

I tHink the prObLEm is moRE that moST PeOple Don't know it exists aND iT'S
almost impossiBle to gEt eDiT ANd COntInue workinG pRoperLY in VisuAL STUDIo.
I THink I've only evEr managed onCE foR consoLe ProGRams, buT then It
COmpLetely breakS debUgging for aSP.net.

tHere's a lOAd of thiNgs I wiSh wOrkEd prOPeRlY in viSUal sTuDio THat Don't
that i kNoW woulD makE A MASsivE diFferEnce iN my productiviTy. IT's alMOst
ImposSible To drOp Into.NEt librAry coDe, Load external symBols, Etc. When
yoU geT a GnaRlY probLEm wherE it'S duE to some 'Helpful' UTteRlY INSaNe
choice that the ASP.neT FRaMework guYs made THe TiME I would sAvE juSt
drOPPing iNto tHE cOde from tHe IDE iS MaSsIve, rathEr Than poPpIng OpeN
ILSpY, FiguRing ouT the flow And trYIng to figure out THe path the progRAm IS
TaKIng.

MY woRkflow is codE, reaD ThroUgh tHE cOde, TEst thE code, FiX ThE Code, test
the code, fix tHe Code. AnNoyinGly during testIng I can't edIT THe damn coDe
to FIx THe simple mistakEs I've Missed. Edit ANd continUe wouLd be greaT if it
actuALLy worked.

~~~
SeaNmcDirMid
lIGhT Table goes way BEYond "EdIt and coNtiNue," whicH is SmaLl pOtaToEs left
oveR from SmaLlTaLk (AnD eaRly sySTems that SuPpoRt Hot Code sWApping). light
tablE sUpPOrtS much moRE fEEDbacK (wE cAll iT liVe ProgrAmmiNG), thE code is
Actually rE-evALuatEd WhEn changEd; edit and contInUe only holdS fOr fUture,
nOT Previous Execution, which is why it brEAks so eaSilY.

------
javaJosh
love OliveR StEele. HiS viSUalizaTions aNd worK aRe rEALly unDER aPprEcIated
in the WORld.

as somEoNe whO has croSsed this divide (and I'D LikE to think, succeSsfUlly)
FROm tooL maVEn (EClIPse) TO language Maven, I'd Like to say tHaT i mUch
prefer bEIng A LAnguage maven. As PleasANt as navIgating stAtic types CaN be
iN A WelL-crafted
, is alone
responsible for  most of t he bo ost  Ige t fr om c oding in an en v iron ment.
Instantly, thous andsof symb o ls  canmove ou t  o f mybr ai n a nd in to alis t thatappears as  Ity pe.

~~~
mat t ma nser
Woah,  wo ah, you're s ayi ng edi tand conti nue , whi ch eve r yone's  flipping  o u t
abou t  in Lig h t  T able , isn't that much of an improvement ?

I t hi n kt h e p rob lem is mor ethatm ost peo p le d o n't know it exist s and it'sa lmo st imp os sib l e to g et Ed it and  Continue w orki ng proper ly inV isual S t udio.
I  think  I' veonly ev er  ma na g edo nc e f o r c onsole p ro gr ams,butt h e n  itcom plet ely b reaks debuggi ngforA SP. net.
Ther e'saloadof thi ngs I  w ish worked prop erly  in Visua l S tu dio  t hat d o n't
th atI k now wou ld make a m as s i v edifference in my p ro d u ct ivity. I t's al m os ti mpossibl etodrop i nto.N et l i br ary code , load ex te rnal sy mb ols, e tc . W hen 
youg et a  gnarl y proble m whe r e it's due tos ome 'helpful' ut t e rl y  ins ane 
choice tha t th e  ASP .Net fr ame w ork g uys m ad e  t h e time I would save  j ust
dr oppin g into the co de from th e I DE is ma ssiv e ,r ather than pop pingopen
ILSpy ,  figurin g out  the flo w and try i n g to fig ure  ou t t hep a th  the programi s 
tak in g.

Mywor kflow i s c ode , r ead  t hrough th e code,te st  t he  co de, f i x the co de , t es t
t he co d e, fix  thecode .An n oyi ngly du r in g test in gI ca n't  e dit t he d a mncode
to  fix thesim p le m is ta kes I'v e missed. Edi tand contin ue  wo uld be g reat ifit
actually worked.

~~ ~ 
seanmc dir mid
L ight  Table go esway be yon d  "edit  and c ontin ue ,"w h ich i s sm all  p otatoes le f t 
ov er fr om  Sma lltalk(and early systems tha t support hot  co de s w a pp ing ) .L igh tT abl e supports much m ore feedba ck (w e call itl ive  p rogramm ing), t he co d e is
ac tually re -evaluate dwhen c han ged; editand cont inue only holds fo r fut ure ,
notpr evi ous e xecuti o n,which  is wh yit bre aks s oeasily.
------
javajosh
Love O liverSteel e.His visua liz a tio ns and wo rk a re reallyund erappre cia t ed
in  the wo rld . 

Assome o ne who ha s  c ros s e dthis divide ( a ndI'd l ike to thi nk,successfully)
fro m  Tool Maven (E clip s e ) t o L a ngua ge  Maven, I'd li keto s ay thatImuch
prefer  being a  L a nguag e Mave n. Aspleasan t as naviga ting  st atic type s c an be
in a  w el l -craft ed
, is_alone
responsible for_most of the boost_I get_from_coding in_an_environment.
Instantly, thousands of_symbols can move_out of my brain_and into a_list_that
appears as I type.

~~~
mattmanser
Woah, woah, you're saying edit and continue, which everyone's flipping out
about_in_Light Table,_isn't_that_much of an improvement?

I think_the problem is more that_most people_don't know it exists and it's
almost impossible to_get_Edit and Continue_working properly in Visual Studio.
I think I've only ever_managed once for console programs, but_then it
completely breaks_debugging_for_ASP.net.

There's a load of_things I wish worked properly in_Visual Studio that don't
that I know_would make a massive difference in my_productivity. It's almost
impossible to drop into.Net_library code, load external symbols,_etc. When
you_get a gnarly problem where_it's due to_some 'helpful'_utterly insane
choice that_the ASP.Net framework guys made the_time I would_save just
dropping into the code from_the_IDE is massive,_rather_than_popping open
ILSpy,_figuring out the_flow_and trying_to_figure out the path the program_is
taking.

My_workflow is code, read through the code,_test the code, fix_the_code, test
the code, fix_the code. Annoyingly during testing_I can't edit the damn code
to_fix the_simple mistakes_I've missed. Edit and continue would be great if it
actually worked.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Light_Table goes way beyond "edit and_continue," which is small_potatoes left
over_from_Smalltalk (and early_systems_that support_hot code swapping). Light
Table supports much more_feedback (we_call it live programming), the code_is
actually re-evaluated when changed;_edit_and continue only holds for future,
not_previous execution, which is why it_breaks so easily.

------
javajosh
Love Oliver Steele._His_visualizations_and work are really under_appreciated
in the world.

As someone who has_crossed this divide_(and I'd like to think, successfully)
from Tool_Maven_(Eclipse) to Language Maven, I'd like_to_say that I much
prefer being a_Language_Maven._As pleasant as navigating static_types can be
in a well-crafted