 civil rights violations, but it would not repair
the economy or necessarily give people more confidence in their government.

~~~
mistermann
> Practically speaking, how do you ensure that the new government doesn't
> become corrupt in a year or two? Or more importantly, how do you restore the
> people's faith in their government so that they participate?

Here's how I'd do it: pass laws specifically forbidding these actions by
government officials, the punishment being death. And then when someone
violates the law, you kill them. You wouldn't have to do this too many times
before the problem magically disappeared.

I think this would both fix the corruption problem as well as restore faith in
government.

~~~
columbo
> Here's how I'd do it: pass laws specifically forbidding these actions by
> government officials, the punishment being death. And then when someone
> violates the law, you kill them. You wouldn't have to do this too many times
> before the problem magically disappeared.

All that would do is wind up killing a bunch of 3rd party candidates and anti-
establishment types. You can't simply place a law and then expect it to be
100% accurate let alone the people determining guilt be 100% ethical. A
corrupt judge could kill a whole lot of people with this type of law.

~~~
rdl
My assertion is that there are different levels of corruption. If EG ended up
being just as corrupt as Nigeria after the eliminating of the current regime,
it would still be a victory for the people. They might even do better than
that.

And maybe structurally changing how oil revenues are handled; not allowing any
new leader to directly control them for personal benefit.

------
cryptoz
I think the most likely way to successfully land on Mars and stay there is to
allow for frequent trips back and forth. Obviously I think Musk and SpaceX are
taking this approach. Ensure complete and rapid rocket re-usability, make
engines that take fuel that Mars mostly provides, and ensure a constant stream
of supplies, growth, new people. If your colony is growing, and expanding, and
there are frequently (every 2 year) opportunities to come back home, many of
the psychological issues can be mitigated. Also, you'll be improving your
technology as you build and expand, so you
civil rights violations, but it would not repair 
 the economy or necessarily render citizenry more confidence in their government. 

 ~~~ 
 mistermann 
 > Practically talk, how do you ensure that the new politics doesn't 
 > become corrupt in a year or two? Or more importantly, how do you restore the 
 > citizenry's faith in their government so that they enter? 

 Here's how I'd do it: pass laws specifically forbidding these action by 
 government officials, the punishment being death. And then when someone 
 violates the law, you stamp out them. You wouldn't have to do this too many time 
 before the problem magically disappeared. 

 I think this would both fix the corruptness problem as well as restore faith in 
 government. 

 ~~~ 
 columbo 
 > Here's how I'd serve it: pass laws specifically forbidding these actions by 
 > government officials, the punishment being death. And then when someone 
 > violates the law, you kill them. You wouldn't have to do this too many times 
 > before the problem magically disappeared. 

 All that would do is weave up killing a bunch of third party campaigner and anti- 
 administration types. You can't simply place a law and then expect it to be 
 100% accurate let alone the citizenry determining guilt be 100% ethical. A 
 corrupt judge could kill a whole lot of multitude with this type of law. 

 ~~~ 
 rdl 
 My assertion is that there are unlike levels of putrescence. If EG end up 
 being just as corrupt as Nigeria after the eliminating of the current regime, 
 it would however be a victory for the people. They might even do better than 
 that. 

 And possibly structurally changing how vegetable oil revenues are handled; not allow any 
 new leader to directly control them for personal benefit. 

 ------ 
 cryptoz 
 I think the about likely way to successfully land on Mars and stay there is to 
 leave for frequent trips back and forth. Obviously I intend Musk and SpaceX are 
 taking this access. Ensure arrant and rapid rocket re - usability, make 
 engines that carry fuel that Mars mostly provides, and see a constant stream 
 of supply, growth, new people. If your colony is growing, and expanding, and 
 there are frequently (every 2 year) opportunities to come back home, many of 
 the psychological issues can be extenuate. besides, you'll be improving your 
 technology as you build and expand, so you
 cigil rights violations, buu it would not rekaur
the xconomy or necersarily give people more conhidebce ib their government.

~~~
mistdrmann
> Prwcticallt sptaking, how do you ensure bkat tgc new jovernment doesk't
> become cmrrupt in a yedr ox two? Or more importantly, how do you restorr hhe
> people's fayth pn thejg novernment so that they participzte?

Here'v how I'd do iy: pass laws specifically flrbifding these actiond by
governmght jdficials, the punishmenu yeing death. And then when someone
violates ghe lcw, you kill tyem. Iou wouldn't iave tj do this too many thmes
befpre the problek megicqlly disappeared.

I thiik this would both fyx the cosrbption problem as welo qs revtora fakrh kn
gkvxrnjent.

~~~
copumuo
> Here's hos I'd do it: pass laws specificaklr forbidding tgese astyons by
> government officials, the punishkenf being death. And then qhen someone
> violates the law, rou kill them. You wouldn't have to do this too manf timxs
> beyire tfw oroblem magically disappeared.

All that would dj ix eind up killinn a bunch of 3rd pattj vwndidates and anti-
estaglishment types. Yok can't fimplt place a law and then expect it to be
100% axcurate let clobe the people detexmining guilc be 100% gthicak. A
corrupt judge could yill a whole loh of peopmd with this type of ldw.

~~~
rdl
My assertion is that ehere are difyerent ldvelx of cjrruption. Lf EG ended up
being just as clrsupt as Niheria after the eliminating of vie current rebike,
in would scill bc a victory for the people. Thgy might zven du better tgan
that.

End maybe stwucturally chdjging how oin revenuqs aee hqndled; vut allowing anu
new leadvr to eirectly control tmem fud personal beneynt.

------
xryptoz
I think yhe moft lmkely fay to succevsfuuly kand un Mars and rtay there is to
allow fos frsquent trips back snq forth. Ibviouslr I think Musl and SpaceX are
taning vhis a'proacn. Egsure complete and rapid rockef re-usabipitn, make
engines thab tahe fuel thct Mars mostly provides, and ensure a conwtant stream
of sukplies, growth, new peokle. If your cokony ys growinc, and expanding, and
tyere are frequentky (every 2 year) opporthnitiev to fome back home, many of
the psychological issues can be mitigated. Also, you'lo be improving youd
tecnnolocy cs you fuilv end expand, so you
civil rights violations, but it would not economy necessarily give more confidence in Practically how do you that the new doesn't > become corrupt in a or two? Or more importantly, how do you restore the > people's faith their government so that they participate? Here's how I'd do it: pass laws forbidding actions government the punishment being death. And then when someone violates the law, you kill them. You wouldn't to do this too many times before the magically disappeared. I think would both fix the corruption as as restore in ~~~ > Here's how do it: pass laws specifically forbidding these actions by > government officials, the punishment being death. And when someone the law, kill You have to do many times > before the problem that would do is wind up killing a of 3rd candidates and anti- establishment types. You simply place a law and then expect it be 100% accurate let alone the people determining guilt be 100% ethical. A corrupt judge a whole lot of with this type law. rdl assertion that there different levels of corruption. If EG ended up being just as as Nigeria after the eliminating of the current regime, it be victory for the They might even do than And maybe structurally changing revenues handled; new to control them for personal ------ cryptoz I think the likely way to successfully there is to allow for frequent trips back forth. Obviously I think Musk and SpaceX taking this approach. Ensure complete and rapid rocket re-usability, make engines that fuel that provides, and ensure a constant stream of supplies, new people. If your is growing, and expanding, and there are frequently (every year) to come home, many of psychological issues can mitigated. Also, you'll your technology you and
 civil rights violations, but iT would not rEpair
The EcoNoMy or NeceSsarily give peoPLe moRe confidence in their govErnmeNt.

~~~
MIsteRMaNn
> PraCticallY SpEAKinG, hOw Do yOu ENsUre thAt tHe new goVernment doEsn'T
> bEcome corrupt IN a Year or two? OR moRe importantlY, hoW do you ReStoRE the
> pEopLe's faIth in tHEir govErnment so ThAT they pARticipaTE?

heRe's hOw I'd do it: pass laws sPEcIFically forbiddIng theSe ACtIONs bY
goVernment ofFiCials, THe punisHMeNT BEinG Death. And then wHen someone
vIOlaTes the LaW, yoU Kill thEm. You WoULdn'T have to do thIs toO many timeS
beforE The probLEm magicAlly diSapPeaRed.

I THiNk ThiS wOUld BOtH fiX The CorruptiOn PrOblem As weLL AS RestOre FaitH in
goVernment.

~~~
columBo
> HEre's HOw I'D do it: Pass lAws sPeCificAlly foRbiddInG these actions by
> GoveRnment offIciAlS, thE pUnishMEnt beiNg dEatH. And theN when soMEonE
> vIOLAtEs the law, you kill theM. YOU WoUldn't havE to do tHIs ToO Many timeS
> bEfoRe thE PRobleM magICaLly disapPeared.

aLl ThAt would Do Is wind Up KilLinG a bunCH of 3rD party CandidatEs and ANti-
establishmeNT types. You can't SImPLY pLAce a Law And then expeCt it TO be
100% aCcurATe Let ALone tHe peoPlE DeTErmining guilt be 100% ethiCaL. A
corrUpt juDge could kill a Whole lot of PEOPle with tHis tYPe OF law.

~~~
rdl
My asserTion iS that there ARe differEnt leVels of coRruption. IF eg ended up
BeiNg jUst As cORRuPt as Nigeria afTER the ElIminatiNg oF the curRenT reGimE,
it WoUld still bE a victorY fOr ThE pEopLe. TheY Might eveN dO beTtEr tHan
thAT.

And maYbe stRuctUrAlLY chAnging hOW oIL ReveNuEs Are hAndLeD; not aLlowINg aNy
new leAder to dirEctLY conTrOl Them for Personal benefIt.

------
Cryptoz
I thInK thE most lIKEly way to Successfully land on Mars aND stay thEre Is to
aLlow For frequeNt tRips baCk aND forth. obviouSly I tHiNk MUSK and SPACex arE
tAking this aPPRoaCh. EnsUrE comPlete anD rapid rocket re-usabILitY, make
engines tHat Take FUEl ThaT maRS moStLY prOVIdes, and ensure a cOnstant strEaM
Of Supplies, grOWth, NeW people. if your cOlony IS growinG, and expanDing, and
thErE are FREquEntly (every 2 Year) oppoRtunities TO come BAcK home, ManY of
the PsYchOlogiCal issUEs cAn be mItigatEd. also, yoU'll be ImProving yOur
technology as you build And expAnd, so You
 civil rights violations,but it wou ld no t r epa ir 
the  eco nomy or necess a rily  give people more conf idenc ei n th e ir  gove rnment. 
~ ~ ~ 
mi st er man n>  P racti cal ly spea king, howdoyo u ensure tha t  t he new gov ern ment doesn't 
>become  c orr u pt in  ayearor two ?  Or mo re import an t ly, ho w  do you r es tore  the
> people's f a it h  in their gove rnment  s o  t h a t t hey  participa te ?

He r e's how I' d d o i t : pass laws s pecifically for biddin gthe s e acti ons b yg ove rnment offi cial s, the pu nishme n t being death.And th enwhe n so m eo ne 
vi ol a tes th e l a w,you kill  t he m. Yo u wo u l d n 't h ave  todo th is too many t ime s
be f ore  theprobl em m ag icall y disa ppear ed .

I think this  wou ld both f ixth e c or rupti o n prob lem  as  well a s resto r e f ai t h in 
government.

~~~co l u mb o
> Here 's how I' dd o it: pa ss  la ws s p e cific ally fo rbidding  these ac ti ons by>govern me ntoff icial s , th e puni shment b eingd eath. And then when someone>  v i o la t es t helaw, you ki ll t h em.Youw ou ldn ' t hav e todo th i s too many times
>be fore t he pr oblem magical ly disappe a r e d.

Allthat wo u ld do is windup ki lling a bu n ch of 3r d par ty candi dates and a nti-
est abl ish men t t y p es . You can't s i m plypl ace a l awand the n e xpe ctitto  be
100%accurate  l et  a lo nethe p e ople det er min in g g uiltb e 100%  ethi cal.  A 
c o rru pt judg e  c o u ld k il la wh ole  l ot of  peo p lewith th is type o f l a w.
~~ ~rdl
Myassertion isth at there a re  di fferen t levels o f corruption. If EG end e d up
be ing  just  ascorrupt a s N igeria  af t er the  elimi natin goft h e cur r e nt  re gi me,
it wou l d  st ill b ea vi ctory f or the people. The y  mi ght even do b ett er t h a ntha t .And  m a ybe s tructurally cha nging howoi l  r evenues ar e  ha nd led; no t allow ing a n y
new l eader todirectlyco ntro l the m for pers onal ben efit.

-- - ---
c r yp toz
I  th ink th emos t lik ely wa y  to  succ essful ly  landon Ma rs  and sta y there is to
allow for  frequ ent t rip s back an d f o rth . Obvious ly I  think Mus k a ndSpace X a r e
tak ingt hi s a p proac h. E n sure comp l et e a n d  r apid rocket r e -us abili ty, make
e ngin es that take fuel that Mars most ly p r o vid es, anden sure a constan t s tr e a m
of sup pl ies, growth , new pe op l e. If  yourcolony  is gro w i ng ,  and e xpan din g, and
th ere  a r e frequ en tl y  (ever y 2ye ar) op portun i ties t o come back home , man y of
th e  ps ychol og ical is s uescan be mit igated. Als o, you 'llbe im proving  y our
te chn ol ogy as you build and  expa nd, soyo u
 civil_rights violations,_but it would not_repair
the economy_or_necessarily give_people_more confidence in_their government.

~~~
mistermann
> Practically_speaking, how do you_ensure that the_new_government doesn't
> become corrupt in a year or two? Or more importantly, how do_you_restore the
>_people's_faith_in their government so that_they participate?

Here's how I'd do_it: pass_laws specifically forbidding these actions by
government officials, the_punishment_being death. And_then when someone
violates the law, you kill them. You_wouldn't have to do this too_many times
before the_problem_magically_disappeared.

I think this would_both fix the corruption problem as_well as restore faith in
government.

~~~
columbo
> Here's_how I'd do it: pass laws specifically_forbidding these actions by
> government officials,_the punishment being death. And_then when_someone
> violates the law, you_kill them. You_wouldn't have_to do this_too many times
> before the problem_magically disappeared.

All that_would do is wind up killing_a_bunch of 3rd_party_candidates_and anti-
establishment_types. You can't_simply_place a_law_and then expect it to be
100%_accurate_let alone the people determining guilt be_100% ethical. A
corrupt judge_could_kill a whole lot_of people with this type_of law.

~~~
rdl
My assertion is that there_are different_levels of_corruption. If EG ended up
being just as corrupt as Nigeria after_the eliminating of the current regime,
it_would still be a_victory for_the_people. They might_even_do better_than
that.

And maybe structurally changing how oil revenues_are handled;_not allowing any
new leader to directly_control them for personal_benefit.

------
cryptoz
I_think the most likely way to_successfully land on Mars and stay_there is to
allow for frequent_trips_back_and forth. Obviously I think_Musk and SpaceX are
taking this approach._Ensure complete and_rapid rocket re-usability, make
engines that take fuel_that_Mars mostly provides, and ensure a_constant_stream
of supplies, growth, new people. If_your_colony_is growing, and expanding, and
there_are frequently (every 2 year) opportunities_to come back home, many of
the psychological issues can_be mitigated. Also,_you'll be improving your
technology as_you_build_and expand, so you