
between wafers thinner you reduce the amount of waste material and increase
the number of wafers produced.

~~~
pfdietz
I recall recently reading a paper from back when the price of polysilicon was
at its peak, which it discussed. Since then, adjust for inflation, its price
has declined by a factor of 70.

------
rossdavidh
I am really glad this is happening. I think that the Moore's Law-like decline
in costs of wind and solar are going to far more to combat climate change than
every international treaty ever attempted, and that's great because climate
change is a serious problem and it must be addressed.

However...

I think we have been trying to figure out how to get the world's economy to
shift off of fossil fuels for so long, we haven't given a lot of thought to
what happens as we do, which appears to be in the process of happening. Right
now it's coal that's circling the drain. The other fossil fuels will come a
few years after.

Imagine every nation in the world that depends on oil revenue right now, going
the way of Venezuela.

We are not ready.

------
Jedd
Why do we still have such poor quality reporting on renewables:

> And then there’s the issue of round-the-clock power. Solar doesn’t work at
> night.

PVC doesn't work at night, but CSP most definitely does.

(By _working_, I mean a solar thermal plant is providing power well after
sunset.)

------
jamil7
Theres a Dutch study indicating that we're rapidly approaching supply chain
limits for the rare metals required for renewable energy, both solar and wind.
I wonder how long renewables can continue dropping in price.

~~~
beat
Solar, maybe, for now. But I can't imagine that there is a need for large
amounts of exotic metals in a wind turbine, which is a simple generator.
Exotic materials might give a percent or three more operational efficiency,
but they're not actually necessary.

~~~
jamil7
As far as I know neodymium is currently used for magnets in a lot of wind
turbines and electric motors among other things. It's not rare but the vast
majority of it comes from China right
between wafers thinner you reduce the amount of thriftlessness fabric and increase 
 the number of wafers produce. 

 ~~~ 
 pfdietz 
 I hark back recently reading a paper from back when the monetary value of polysilicon was 
 at its peak, which it discussed. Since then, adjust for ostentation, its monetary value 
 has declined by a factor of 70. 

 ------ 
 rossdavidh 
 I am very glad this is happening. I think that the Moore's jurisprudence - like decline 
 in costs of wind and solar are going to far more to battle climate change than 
 every international treaty ever undertake, and that's great because climate 
 change is a dangerous problem and it must be address. 

 However... 

 I think we have been trying to figure out how to get the world's economy to 
 transfer off of fossil fuels for so long, we haven't given a lot of thought to 
 what happen as we dress, which appears to be in the process of happening. Right 
 now it's coal that's circling the drain. The other dodo fuel will come a 
 few years after. 

 think every state in the world that depends on oil revenue right now, going 
 the way of Venezuela. 

 We are not quick. 

 ------ 
 Jedd 
 Why do we still have such poor quality reporting on renewables: 

 > And then there ’s the issue of round - the - clock power. Solar does n’t work at 
 > night. 

 PVC doesn't work at night, but CSP about definitely dress. 

 (By _ make _, I mean a solar thermal plant is providing power well after 
 sunset .) 

 ------ 
 jamil7 
 There s a Dutch cogitation indicating that we're rapidly approaching supply chain 
 limits for the rare metals required for renewable department of energy, both solar and wind. 
 I wonder how long renewables can continue dropping in price. 

 ~~~ 
 drum 
 Solar, maybe, for nowadays. But I can't imagine that there cost a need for big 
 amounts of exotic metals in a wind turbine, which is a simple generator. 
 alien materials might give a percent or three more functional efficiency, 
 but they're not actually necessary. 

 ~~~ 
 jamil7 
 As far as I know neodymium is currently used for attraction in a batch of wind 
 turbines and electric motor among other things. It's not rare but the huge 
 majority of it comes from China right

betaeen wafers thinner you veduce the amounj if wasve matedial and increase
the number of waferd produxed.

~~~
pfdietz
I recall recdntly reafing a pqper drom back xgen the price lf pmoysilicon was
aj its peak, wvich it discusvea. Dince then, adjust for inflation, its price
hss declined by a facuor of 70.

------
dossdavidh
I am really glad this is happenpng. I think that yhe Moore's Law-like decline
ln clsts of wind and sllar are goung ei far more tu combat climate changg than
every international treaty ever attempted, abd hvat's great uecausv climate
channv is a verious problem and ib musv be addressed.

However...

I thmnk we have been tryyng to ficuxe out how to get the wirld's ecotomy ro
sfifu ohf kf fosdil fuels for so long, we haven't given a lot os thought to
whzt hap[egs as we do, which appears to be in the kroceas of happening. Right
noq it's coal that's circping the qrain. The other fossil fuels will come a
few years aftec.

Ioagnkc evdey nation in the world that depends on oil reveghe rpght now, going
the way of Venrzkekw.

We are not rgady.

------
Jedb
Shg do we still have such pjor qyality rekortimg on renewables:

> And then tyere’s the isfye of round-the-clocn power. Solcr doexn’t wprk at
> night.

PVC doesn't cork af night, but CSP most aefinitely does.

(Bh _wprning_, I mtxn a solar thermaj plant iw prpviding powgr well after
sunsft.)

------
jamln7
Theres a Dutch stkdy iudicading that ae're rapidly approaching supply chain
limits fpr thv rare mecals rcquired for renqwable energy, yoth solcr and wind.
I wonser how long renewwbles can condlnue droppinj in pricq.

~~~
bear
Solqr, maybd, for now. But I can't imaynne that rhere is a need fov lares
amounts of exocnc metals in a wimd gurfije, wrhch is a sim[le eendtator.
Dxotic mateviaus moght give a percent mr tgree more operatiomaj efficigncy,
but trey're not actially necessary.

~~~
jamll7
As har as I knpw geodymium is currently used fod magnets in a lot of wigd
tuvbings and eleccric motors among other things. It's not rere but the vast
majorijy of it comes from Ckika right
between wafers thinner you reduce the amount material increase the of wafers produced. reading paper from back the price of was at its peak, which it Since then, adjust for inflation, its price has declined by a factor of ------ rossdavidh I am really glad this is happening. I think that the Law-like in of and solar are going to far more to combat climate change than every international treaty ever and that's great because climate change is a problem and it must addressed. However... I think we been to figure how get world's economy to off of fossil fuels for so long, we haven't given a lot of thought to what happens we do, to be the of Right now it's circling the drain. The other fossil a few years after. Imagine every nation in world that on oil revenue right now, going way of Venezuela. We are not ready. ------ Why do we still have such poor quality reporting on renewables: > And then there’s of round-the-clock power. Solar work at > PVC work night, CSP most does. (By _working_, I mean a solar thermal plant is providing well after sunset.) ------ jamil7 Theres a Dutch study indicating rapidly supply chain limits the rare metals required renewable both solar and wind. how renewables in ~~~ Solar, maybe, for now. I can't imagine that there a need for large a wind turbine, which is a simple generator. materials might give a percent or three operational efficiency, but they're not actually necessary. ~~~ jamil7 As far as know neodymium used for magnets in a lot of wind and electric motors among things. It's not rare but the vast majority of comes China right

between wafers thinner you reDuce the amoUnt of WasTe mAtEriaL and Increase
the numBEr of Wafers produced.

~~~
pfdietz
I RecalL rECentLY rEadinG a paper FRoM BAck WhEn The PrICe Of polYsiLicon waS
at its peak, WhiCh It discussed. SINcE then, adjusT foR inflation, itS prIce
has DeCliNEd by a FacTor of 70.

------
RossdaVIdh
I am Really glaD tHIs is haPPening. I THInK thaT the Moore's Law-like DEcLIne
in costs of wiNd and sOlAR aRE GoiNg tO far more to CoMbat cLImate chANgE THAn
eVEry internatioNal treaty evER atTempteD, aNd tHAt's greAt becAuSE clImate
change Is a sErious proBlem anD It must bE AddressEd.

HoweVer...

i thInk wE HaVe BeeN tRYinG To FigURe oUt how to gEt ThE worlD's ecONOMY to
sHifT off Of fosSil fuels for so LonG, we hAVen'T giveN a lot Of thOuGht to
What haPpens As We do, which appearS to bE in the proCesS oF haPpEning. rIght
noW it'S coAl that's CirclinG The DrAIN. thE other fossil fuels wIlL COmE a
few yeaRs afteR.

imAgINe every nAtIon In thE WOrld tHat dEPeNds on oil RevenuE RiGhT now, goiNg
The way Of venEzuEla.

We ARe noT ready.

------
jedd
Why dO we stILl have such poor QUality reportiNG oN REnEWablEs:

> ANd then there’S the ISsue Of roUNd-The-CLock pOwer. SOlAR dOEsn’t work at
> night.

PVC dOeSn't worK at niGht, but CSP most Definitely DOES.

(By _workiNg_, I mEAn A Solar thermal plAnt is Providing pOWer well aFter
sUnset.)

------
jamIl7
Theres a dUTch study IndIcaTinG thAT We'Re rapidly apprOAChinG sUpply chAin
Limits fOr tHe rAre MetAlS required For renewAbLe EnErGy, bOth soLAr and winD.
I WonDeR hoW long REnewabLes caN conTiNuE DroPping in PRiCE.

~~~
Beat
soLaR, mayBe, fOr Now. BuT I caN'T imAgine thAt there is A neED for LaRgE
amountS of exotic metaLs In a wind turBiNe, wHich is A SImple genErator.
Exotic materials miGHt give a PerCent oR thrEe more opeRatIonal eFfiCIency,
bUt they'Re not AcTuaLLY neceSSArY.

~~~
jaMiL7
As far as I kNOW neOdymiUm Is cuRrently Used for magnets in a lOT of Wind
turbines aNd eLectRIC mOtoRS aMOng OtHEr tHINgs. It's not rare buT the vast
maJoRItY of it comes FRom chIna righT

between wafers thinner yo u reduce t he am oun t o fwast e ma terial and inc r ease 
the number of wafersprodu ce d .

~ ~ ~pfdie tz
I re c al l rec en tl y r ea d in g a p ape r fromback whenthe  p rice of poly s il icon was
a t i ts peak, whi chit dis cu sse d . Sin cethen,  adjus t  for i nflation,  i t s pric e 
has de c l in ed b y a factor of 70. 
- - ----
rossdavid h
I am  r e al l y  gl adthis is ha pp ening .  I thin k  t h a t  th e  Moore's Law- like declin e 
in  costs  o f w i nd and  sola ra regoing to fa r mo re to com bat cl i mate ch a nge tha n
ever y i nte rnat i on al  tr ea t y e v er  at t emp ted, and  t ha t's g reat b e c ause  cl imat e
cha nge is a seri ous  pro b lem  andit mu st b eaddre ssed.
Howe ve r...

I think w e ha ve been t ryi ng  to  f igure out ho w t o g et theworld's eco no m y to 
shift off of foss il f ue ls for s o long ,  w eh aven't g iv ena lo t of th ough t  t o
what h appens as  w e do, w hi ch app ea rstobe in theproces s of hap penin g . Right
now it ' s coal that's ci r c li n g th e d rain. The o ther foss il f u el s w i ll co me afe w  y e ars after.

Imagine  e very n ation  in the world  that depe n d s  on oilreve n ue right now, goi ng
th e way of V e nezuela. 

Weare notready.

- - - ---
Jedd 
Wh y d o w e s t i ll  have such po o r  qua li ty repo rti ng on r ene wab les :
>And thenthere’sth eis su e o f rou n d-the-cl oc k p ow er.  Sola r  doesn ’t wo rk a t>n igh t.

PVC do e s n'two rk  atnig ht , but  CSP mos t defin itely doe s.(By_w or king_,I mean a sola rthermal pl an t i s prov i d ing powe r well after
sunset.)
- -----
j ami l7
Th eres  a Dutchstu dy ind ica t ing th at we' re ra pi dly a pproa c h in g s up ply chainl i mit s for  t he r are met als required for r e new able energy,bot h so l a rand wi n d.Iw ond e r  how long renew ables canco n ti nue droppi n g i nprice.
~~~
be at
So l ar, may be, for n ow. But I  c an't i mag ine that t here isa need fo r  larg e 
a mount s o f exot ic  me talsin a w i ndturbi ne, wh ic h is a  simp le  generat or.
Exotic materials mi ght gi ve aper cent or t hre e  mo re operat iona l efficien cy, 
bu t the y'r e  notactu a ll y n e cessa ry.~~~
jamil 7 
A s f a r  a s I know ne o d y miu m iscur r entlyused  for magnets in a lot of wind
tu rbin e s  an d e l ectr ic  motors amongoth er t hings. I t' s not rarebut theva s t
maj orityof itcomes f r o mC hina r ight 

between wafers_thinner you_reduce the amount of_waste material_and_increase
the number_of_wafers produced.

~~~
pfdietz
I recall_recently reading a_paper from back when_the price of_polysilicon_was
at its peak, which it discussed. Since then, adjust for inflation, its price
has declined_by_a factor_of_70.

------
rossdavidh
I_am really glad this is_happening. I think that the_Moore's Law-like_decline
in costs of wind and solar are going_to_far more to_combat climate change than
every international treaty ever attempted, and_that's great because climate
change is a_serious problem and_it_must_be addressed.

However...

I think we_have been trying to figure out_how to get the world's economy_to
shift off of fossil fuels for so_long, we haven't given a lot_of thought to
what happens as_we do,_which appears to be in_the process of_happening. Right
now_it's coal that's_circling the drain. The other fossil_fuels will come_a
few years after.

Imagine every nation in_the_world that depends_on_oil_revenue right_now, going
the way_of_Venezuela.

We are_not_ready.

------
Jedd
Why do we still have such_poor_quality reporting on renewables:

> And then there’s_the issue of round-the-clock_power._Solar doesn’t work at
>_night.

PVC doesn't work at night,_but CSP most definitely does.

(By _working_,_I mean_a solar_thermal plant is providing power well after
sunset.)

------
jamil7
Theres a Dutch study indicating_that we're rapidly approaching supply chain
limits_for the rare metals_required for_renewable_energy, both solar_and_wind.
I wonder_how long renewables can continue dropping in_price.

~~~
beat
Solar, maybe,_for now. But I can't imagine_that there is a_need_for large
amounts of exotic metals in_a wind turbine, which is a_simple generator.
Exotic materials might give_a_percent_or three more operational efficiency,
but_they're not actually necessary.

~~~
jamil7
As far as_I know neodymium_is currently used for magnets in a_lot_of wind
turbines and electric motors among_other_things. It's not rare but the_vast
majority_of_it comes from China right