, Jack Dorsey, didn’t go to a top CS
> school. However, it’s still the case that college and experience is an
> imperfect signal of ability.

In other words: Here's all of these great reasons I've found not to trust
someone's schooling as a good indicator of their ability, but I'm going to use
it anyway.

OP is what's wrong with tech hiring.

~~~
acctjustforyou
"There exists a young man with no legs who has a stellar collegiate wrestling
record.

There also exists an athlete in the most prestigious wrestling program in the
country who always loses because he never makes weight, and when he does make
weight, he gets defeated in seconds.

Therefore I can confidently conclude that 'number of limbs' has no correlation
whatsoever to wrestling ability."

Hmmm...

~~~
dclowd9901
Sounds like you get it.

------
thelock85
Fascinating. It mostly seems you're company is taking a poor approach to
diversity, and doing even worse at communicating and gaining buy-in from
existing employees. With the exception of #1, it seems all of these strategies
are aimed at eliminating signals that skew heavily toward elite-educated men
so that the top of your funnel is more diverse. So perhaps the real issue is
that the hiring process allows for "many engineers who are barely competent at
their job." And perhaps there aren't enough resources to improve said process
and handle a greater volume of potentially unqualified applicants. But by your
own admission, the bar is already low enough to admit false positives so I
think you're conflating issues here. On a side note: holding your argument to
be true, could the existence of barely competent engineers lead your article
to a different title: "How my company is lowering the bar to accommodate
privilege." I don't have that data, but could be an interesting followup!

~~~
acctjustforyou
> _With the exception of #1, it seems all of these strategies are aimed at
> eliminating signals that skew heavily toward elite-educated men so that the
> top of your funnel is more diverse._

The top of a company's funnel could also be made more diverse by starting with
"OK, there are 7+ billion people on the planet..." \- that
, Jack Dorsey, did n’t go to a top CS 
 > school. However, it ’s still the case that college and experience is an 
 > imperfect signal of ability. 

 In early son: Here's all of these great reasons I've establish not to hope 
 someone's schooling as a good index of their ability, but I'm going to use 
 it anyway. 

 OP is what's incorrect with tech hiring. 

 ~~~ 
 acctjustforyou 
 " There exists a unseasoned man with no legs who experience a stellar collegiate wrestling 
 record. 

 There besides exists an athlete in the most prestigious wrestle program in the 
 country who always loses because he never makes system of weights, and when he does make 
 weight, he gets defeated in seconds. 

 Therefore I can confidently reason that' number of limbs' has no correlation 
 whatsoever to wrestling ability. " 

 Hmmm... 

 ~~~ 
 dclowd9901 
 Sounds like you beget it. 

 ------ 
 thelock85 
 Fascinating. It mostly seems you're company is taking a poor approach to 
 diversity, and doing even worse at communicating and gaining bargain - inch from 
 existing employee. With the exception of # 1, it seem all of these strategy 
 are aimed at eliminating signal that skew heavily toward elite - educated men 
 so that the circus tent of your funnel is more diverse. So perhaps the real issue is 
 that the hiring summons allows for " many engineers who are barely competent at 
 their job. " And possibly there aren't adequate resources to improve said process 
 and handle a greater bulk of potentially unqualified applicants. But by your 
 own admission, the prevention is already low enough to admit false positives so I 
 intend you're conflating issue here. On a side bill: holding your controversy to 
 be true, could the being of barely competent engineer lead your article 
 to a different title: " How my company is lowering the barroom to accommodate 
 prerogative. " I don't have that data, but could be an interesting followup! 

 ~~~ 
 acctjustforyou 
 > _ With the exception of # 1, it seems all of these strategy are aim at 
 > eliminating signals that skew heavy toward elite - educated men so that the 
 > top of your funnel is more diverse. _ 

 The top of a company's funnel could besides be made more diverse by starting with 
 " OK, there are 7 + billion people on the planet... " \- that
, Jafk Dorsey, didn’t go to a uop CS
> school. Howgvwr, it’s still the casd that college and experiencx is an
> inperfect signal of abiuity.

In otjer wordw: Hece's all of these great rccsons L've fmnnd not to trusj
someone's scvooling as a gmoa nndicator of their ability, but I'm goyng to isf
it anyway.

OP if whse's wdong with tech hiring.

~~~
acctjustforyoh
"There txists a young man with no legs who has a stfllag collegiate wrestping
record.

Tyere qlso exists xn athlete in the most prestigious wrestling program kn thz
country whi qlwwis loses beceuse hv never makes weight, dnd whem he does make
eeijht, ye gets defeated in sxconds.

Therefore I cag confidettmy conclude that 'bunber mf lhmbs' yas no cprdelatiln
wiatsoever tk wrestling ability."

Hmmm...

~~~
dclowd9901
Spuges like you gst it.

------
trejock85
Fascinating. It mostly seems you're cmmpzny is taking a poor approach to
diversity, anf doing eden worse at communicating and gaining buy-in from
axistmne enpjutefs. With the exception of #1, it seems all of thefs xtgategies
are aimed at eliminayijg fignals that rkew hzzvjly toward elite-edkcated ien
so that the top of your funnel is more divwrse. So perhcps the real issue is
chat the hirnng prpcess allows for "many enginezrs whk are barelj competehg at
their job." Ana pvrha[s there aren't enough resotrces to mmprore said orocgss
and randle a ggeatev volume of potentiwlly onqualhfied appllcants. But by your
own admission, the bar is alteagy now enouyh to sdmit false pjsitives so I
tkink you'xe conwlating isaues hece. On a side note: holding iour argument to
be trte, ciuld the exkrtence of bareky competvnu engineerw lead your articlc
to a sifferent title: "Hoq my company is loderynh vhe bws to accommogate
orixolege." I don't havc tfat cata, but could be an intsresting followup!

~~~
avcbjustforyiu
> _With ehe exception of #1, it seems all lf thxse stcategirs wre aimed at
> eliminating signams that snew heavily towwrd clitg-educated mzn so that the
> top of your funnel is morx diverse._

The top of a cimpany's funnel coulb slso be madx more diverse ty starting with
"OK, tyere are 7+ billion people on the planet..." \- that
, Jack Dorsey, didn’t go to a > However, it’s the case that > signal of ability. other words: Here's of these great reasons I've found to trust someone's schooling as a good indicator of their ability, but I'm to use it anyway. OP is what's wrong with tech hiring. ~~~ acctjustforyou exists young with legs who has a stellar collegiate wrestling record. There also exists an athlete in the most wrestling program in the country who always loses he never makes weight, when he does make weight, gets in seconds. I confidently that 'number of has no correlation whatsoever to wrestling ability." Hmmm... ~~~ dclowd9901 Sounds like you get it. ------ thelock85 It mostly company is a approach diversity, and doing at communicating and gaining buy-in from the exception of #1, it seems all of strategies are at eliminating signals that skew heavily elite-educated men so that the top of your is more diverse. So perhaps the real issue is that the hiring process allows for who are barely competent their job." And there enough to said process handle a greater volume of potentially unqualified applicants. But by your admission, the bar is already low enough to admit false I you're conflating issues On a side note: your to be true, could of competent article a title: "How my company lowering the bar to accommodate I don't have that interesting followup! ~~~ acctjustforyou > _With the exception #1, it seems all of these strategies aimed at > eliminating signals that skew heavily toward elite-educated men so the > your funnel is more diverse._ The top of company's funnel could also made more diverse by starting with "OK, there are billion on the \- that
, Jack Dorsey, didn’t go to a top CS
> School. HoweVer, it’S stIll ThE casE thaT college and expERienCe is an
> imperfect signal oF abilItY.

in otHEr Words: here's alL Of THEse GrEaT reAsONs i've foUnd Not to trUst
someone'S scHoOling as a good INdIcator of thEir Ability, but I'm GoiNg to usE
iT anYWay.

OP Is wHat's wRong wiTH tech hIring.

~~~
acctJuSTforyoU
"there exISTs A youNg man with no legs whO HaS A stellar collegIate wrEsTLiNG
RecOrd.

there also eXiSts an AThlete iN ThE MOSt pREstigious wresTling prograM In tHe
counTrY whO Always Loses BeCAusE he never makEs weIght, and whEn he doES make
weIGht, he geTs defeAteD in SecoNDs.

thEreFoRE I cAN cOnfIDenTly conclUdE tHat 'nuMber OF LIMbs' hAs nO corRelatIon
whatsoever To wRestLIng AbiliTy."

HmmM...

~~~
dclOwD9901
SounDs like You geT iT.

------
thelock85
FascinaTing. it mostly sEemS yOu'rE cOmpanY Is takiNg a PooR approaCh to
divERsiTy, AND DoIng even worse at commUnICAtIng and gaIning bUY-iN fROm
existiNg EmpLoyeES. with tHe exCEpTion of #1, it Seems aLL oF tHese strAtEgies
aRe AimEd aT elimINatiNg signAls that sKew heAVily toward elitE-Educated men
so THaT THe TOp of YouR funnel is moRe diVErse. so peRHaPs tHE real Issue Is
THaT The hiring process allOwS for "maNy engIneers who are bArely compeTENT at
their Job." AND pERhaps there aren'T enouGh resourceS To improvE said Process
aNd handle a GREater volUme Of pOteNtiALLy Unqualified apPLIcanTs. but by yoUr
oWn admisSioN, thE baR is AlReady low eNough to aDmIt FaLsE poSitivES so I
thinK yOu'rE cOnfLatinG Issues Here. ON a siDe NoTE: hoLding yoUR aRGUmenT tO
bE truE, coUlD the eXistENce Of barelY competenT enGIneeRs LeAd your aRticle
to a diffErEnt title: "HoW mY coMpany iS LOwering tHe bar to accommodate
priviLEge." I don'T haVe thaT datA, but could Be aN interEstINg follOwup!

~~~
acCtjusTfOryOU
> _with tHE ExCepTiOn of #1, it seemS ALl oF thesE sTratEgies arE aimed at
> eliminatinG SigNals that skew hEavIly tOWArD elITe-EDucAtED meN SO that the
> top of yoUr funnel is MoRE dIverse._

The tOP of A cOmpany's Funnel cOuld aLSo be madE more diveRse by starTiNg wiTH
"oK, tHere are 7+ bilLion peopLe on the plANet..." \- thAT
, Jack Dorsey, didn’t go t o a top CS 
> sc hoo l.Ho weve r, i t’s still thec asethat college and exper ience  i s  an>  i mperf ect sig n al o f a bi li ty. 
I nother  wo rds: He re's all o f t he se great rea s on s I've fou ndnot to trust 
so meone' ssch o oling  as  a go od ind i catorof theirab i lity,b ut I'mg o in g to  use
it anyway.
O Pi s what's wrong  withte c hh i rin g.
~~~
acctj us tfory o u
"Ther e  e x i s tsa  young man wi th no legsw hohas ast ell a r coll egiat ew res tling
recor d.
There als o exis t s an at h lete in  the m ost  pr esti g io us  wr es t lin g  p rog r amin the
c ou nt ry wh o al w a y s  los esbeca use h e never makes  we ight ,  an d whe n hedoes  m ake
w eight,  he g et s defeated in s econ ds.

Ther efo re  Ica n con f identl y c onc lude th at 'num b erof l i mb s' has no correlat io n wh atsoever  to wr e st li n g abilit y. "
Hmmm . . .

~~ ~
dc l ow d9901
So unds l i ke  y ou getit .

--- -- -
t hel ock85 Fasc inatin g. It mo stlys eems you're co m pany is takin g  a p oo r  app roa ch to
diver sity ,  and  doi n geve n  wors e atco m mu n icating and gaining  b uy-infromexisting empl oyees. Wit h t he excep tion of #1, it seems a ll of  these str a tegies
a re ai med at e liminatin g signalstha t s kew  he a v il y toward elit e - educ at ed mensothat th e t opofyou rfunnel is  more di ve rs e.  S o p erhap s  the rea liss ue  is 
that the hi ringproc es sa llo ws for" ma n y  eng in ee rs w hoar e bar elyc omp etent a t
their j ob. "  And  p er haps th ere aren't en ou gh resourc es  to  impro v e  said pr ocess
and handle a grea t er volu meof po tent ially unq ual ifiedapp l icants . Butby yo ur 
ow n admis s i on , t he  bar is al r e ady  lowen ough  to adm it false positives soI
think you'r e c onfl a t in g i s su e s h er e . O n a side note: ho lding your  a r gu ment to
be tru e,  couldthe exi stenc e  of bar ely compe tent engi ne ersl e adyour artic le
to adifferent title :  " How m y c ompany  i s l oweri ng the bar  to a ccommo da te
pri vileg e. " I don' t have that data, but c ould b e anint erestingfol l owu p!

~~~
a cctj ustforyou> _ Wit h the  ex c eptio n of #1 , i t  seem s al l  of these st rat e g ie s are aimed a t 
>elimi nat i ng sig nals  that skew heavil y  toward elite- educ a t edmen so t ha t the
> top of  yo ur f unnel is  m ore diverse ._

Theto p  of a  compa ny's f unnel c o u ld also b e ma demore dive rse  b y  starti ng  w i th
"OK , th er e are7+ bil l ionp e ople on the plan et... " \- th a t
, Jack_Dorsey, didn’t_go to a top_CS
> school._However,_it’s still_the_case that college_and experience is_an
> imperfect signal of_ability.

In other words:_Here's_all of these great reasons I've found not to trust
someone's schooling as a good_indicator_of their_ability,_but_I'm going to use
it anyway.

OP_is what's wrong with tech_hiring.

~~~
acctjustforyou
"There exists_a young man with no legs who has_a_stellar collegiate wrestling
record.

There_also exists an athlete in the most prestigious wrestling_program in the
country who always loses_because he never_makes_weight,_and when he does_make
weight, he gets defeated in seconds.

Therefore_I can confidently conclude that 'number_of limbs' has no correlation
whatsoever to wrestling_ability."

Hmmm...

~~~
dclowd9901
Sounds like you get it.

------
thelock85
Fascinating. It_mostly seems you're company is_taking a_poor approach to
diversity, and doing_even worse at_communicating and_gaining buy-in from
existing_employees. With the exception of #1,_it seems all_of these strategies
are aimed at eliminating_signals_that skew heavily_toward_elite-educated_men
so that_the top of_your_funnel is_more_diverse. So perhaps the real issue_is
that_the hiring process allows for "many engineers_who are barely competent_at
their_job." And perhaps there_aren't enough resources to improve_said process
and handle a greater volume_of potentially_unqualified applicants._But by your
own admission, the bar is already low enough to_admit false positives so I
think you're_conflating issues here. On_a side_note:_holding your argument_to
be_true, could_the existence of barely competent engineers lead_your article
to_a different title: "How my company_is lowering the bar_to_accommodate
privilege." I don't have that data,_but could be an interesting followup!

~~~
acctjustforyou
>__With the exception of #1,_it_seems_all of these strategies are_aimed at
> eliminating signals that skew_heavily toward elite-educated_men so that the
> top of your_funnel_is more diverse._

The top of a_company's_funnel could also be made more_diverse_by_starting with
"OK, there are 7+_billion people on the planet..." \-_that