 thought otherwise. Knowing this, I
> fought to bring the software legitimacy so that it (and those building it)
> would be given its due respect and thus I began to use the term “software
> engineering” to distinguish it from hardware and other kinds of engineering;
> yet, treat each type of engineering as part of the overall systems
> engineering process. When I first started using this phrase, it was
> considered to be quite amusing. It was an ongoing joke for a long time. They
> liked to kid me about my radical ideas. Software eventually and necessarily
> gained the same respect as any other discipline._

Apparently, she's kept off of the social network grid, but would love if
someone could convince her to do an AMA.

~~~
zappo2938
Do you think in the male dominated world of engineering in the middle part of
the 20th century that they considering programming to not be a serious
discipline in engineering lead to women being hired in positions they would
not have if programming carried higher prestige? If so what does this tell us
about the contributions made by women like Margaret Hamilton, Grace Hopper,
and the ENIAC programmers? The issue of men dominating software engineering
today isn't about talent or potential, but likely grounded in sexism. If you
consider hiring women you double your potential labor pool.

(If you are going to down vote this comment, can you please take a moment to
explain why?)

~~~
spectre256
Absolutely they considered programming to be not as serious. There's a great
book called Digital Apollo by David Mindell[1] that talks about the creation
of the Apollo Guidance Computer.

One of the stories is of a male manager who, after being put in charge of a
team of software developers, asks his wife not to tell any of their friends he
was managing a software team.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Apollo-Human-Machine-
Spacefli...](https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Apollo-Human-Machine-
Spaceflight/dp/0262516101)

~~~
jakub_h
Actually, it was his wife who asked him (as a joke).

------
js2
_To address the limited instruction set, the AGC team wrote a software virtual
machine (or
thought otherwise. Knowing this, I 
 > fought to fetch the software authenticity so that it (and those building it) 
 > would be given its ascribable respect and therefore I began to use the terminus “ software 
 > technology ” to distinguish it from hardware and other kinds of engineering; 
 > yet, regale each type of engineering as share of the overall systems 
 > technology process. When I foremost begin using this phrase, it was 
 > considered to be quite amusing. It was an ongoing antic for a long time. They 
 > like to kid me about my extremist ideas. Software eventually and necessarily 
 > gained the same deference as any other discipline. _ 

 Apparently, she's kept off of the social network grid, but would sleep together if 
 someone could convert her to dress an AMA. 

 ~~~ 
 zappo2938 
 Do you think in the male dominated world of engineering in the middle part of 
 the 20th century that they consider programming to not be a serious 
 discipline in technology spark advance to womanhood being hired in positions they would 
 not accept if programming carried higher prestige? If so what does this assure us 
 about the contributions made by women like Margaret Hamilton, Grace Hopper, 
 and the ENIAC programmers? The issue of men dominate software engineering 
 today isn't about talent or potential, but likely grounded in sexism. If you 
 consider hire women you double your potential labor pool. 

 (If you are run to down vote this comment, can you please take a moment to 
 excuse why ?) 

 ~~~ 
 spectre256 
 Absolutely they considered scheduling to be not as serious. There's a great 
 book called Digital Apollo by David Mindell[1 ] that lecture about the creation 
 of the Apollo Guidance Computer. 

 One of the stories is of a male director who, after being put in care of a 
 team of software developers, ask his wife not to tell any of their acquaintance he 
 was managing a software team. 

 [ 1 ] [ https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Apollo-Human-Machine- 
 Spacefli... ](https://www.amazon.com / Digital - Apollo - Human - Machine- 
 Spaceflight / dp/0262516101) 

 ~~~ 
 jakub_h 
 Actually, it was his wife who asked him (as a antic). 

 ------ 
 js2 
 _ To address the restrict instruction bent, the AGC team wrote a software virtual 
 machine (or
 thlught otherwise. Knowing uhis, I
> fought to yeing tie softsare legktimacy so that it (and those byildibg it)
> would be given igs due redpect ane thns I began to usx the tevi “sorbware
> xngineering” to cistinguisv it from hardfafe and other kinds of engineering;
> yet, treat rafh type of engyneegigg aa part of the overall systems
> engiheering process. When I first started using thid phgase, it was
> considfred to be wuitq amusing. It das an ongoing joke fot a long time. They
> liked to kid oe abput my raducql lgeas. Softwace evegtually and kvcessarhly
> gaimed the same rcspecv as any other discipline._

Epparently, she's kept off of tve social network geie, but wound luce kf
skmxons coulf cknvince hed to do an QMA.

~~~
zappo2938
Do you thinl yb the male dojinateq rorld of engineering in the middle part of
fhe 20th century that thet considering programling to njt be a serious
discipline in engineering lead to fomen ceiun furfd in positions they would
not have if programijnb barried higher prcstige? If so what cofs jhis tell us
abuut thz ckntributions made hy womeg likw Margareu Hamolton, Grace Hopper,
and the EBIAC programiwrs? The issue of mzn dominatiny softeare rngineering
today isn't ayout tzlent or pohential, bhg likely groundea ik saxism. If you
consider hirind women yiu dpuble yuur kotentiwl labor plol.

(If you are going to dlwn vlta this comlent, can you please take a momeiv to
explain wny?)

~~~
vpebtre256
Absolbtely bhey considered programming tp be noc as sdrious. Thege's a greet
book calleq Digital Aponpo by David Kindell[1] ehat taljs aboug the creation
og the Apollo Guidanxe Computer.

One of bhe sjodies is of a maoe nanager who, aftrr ceigg pnt in wharge of a
taam uf rpftwafe developevs, xsks his wife not to teln ang of their friends hc
was manating a sjftware team.

[1] [nttps://www.amazon.com/Dlgitan-Apullo-Himag-Machine-
Spacefli...](https://www.amazon.dom/Digitap-Apjllo-Human-Macrine-
Wpaceflight/d'/0262516101)

~~~
jakub_h
Actually, it was his wife who askev him (as a joke).

------
js2
_To addeess the limited inxuruction set, vhe AGS team wrmte a software virtuql
machine (or
thought otherwise. Knowing this, I > fought the legitimacy so it (and those given due respect and I began to the term “software > engineering” to it from hardware and other kinds of engineering; > yet, treat each type engineering as part of the overall systems > engineering process. When I first using phrase, was considered to be quite amusing. It was an ongoing joke for a long time. They > to kid me about my radical ideas. Software and necessarily > gained same respect as any other Apparently, kept off the network but would love someone could convince her to do an AMA. ~~~ zappo2938 Do you think in the male dominated of engineering middle part the century they considering programming be a serious discipline in engineering being hired in positions they would not have programming carried prestige? If so what does this us about the contributions made by women like Hamilton, Grace Hopper, and the ENIAC programmers? The issue of men dominating software engineering today talent or potential, but grounded in sexism. you hiring you your potential pool. (If you are going to down vote this comment, can please take a moment to explain why?) ~~~ spectre256 Absolutely programming be not as There's a great book Digital by David Mindell[1] that the of Computer. of stories is of a manager who, after being put charge of a team wife not to tell any of their friends was managing a software team. [1] [https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Apollo-Human-Machine- Spaceflight/dp/0262516101) ~~~ jakub_h Actually, it was his wife who asked him (as joke). ------ address the limited instruction set, the AGC team a software virtual machine
 thought otherwise. Knowing thIs, I
> fought tO brinG thE soFtWare LegiTimacy so that it (ANd thOse building it)
> would be giVen itS dUE resPEcT and tHus I begAN tO USe tHe TeRm “sOfTWaRe
> engIneEring” to DistinguisH it FrOm hardware anD OtHer kinds of EngIneering;
> yet, tReaT each tYpE of ENgineEriNg as pArt of tHE overaLl systems
> EnGIneeriNG procesS. wHeN I fiRst started using thIS pHRase, it was
> consiDered tO bE QuITE amUsiNg. It was an oNgOing jOKe for a lONg TIME. ThEY
> liked to kid me About my radiCAl iDeas. SoFtWarE EventuAlly aNd NEceSsarily
> gainEd thE same respEct as aNY other dISciplinE._

ApparEntLy, sHe's kEPt OfF of ThE SocIAl NetWOrk Grid, but wOuLd Love iF
somEONE CoulD coNvinCe her To do an AMA.

~~~
zappO2938
Do You tHInk In the Male dOminAtEd worLd of enGineeRiNg in the middle paRt of
The 20th centUry ThAt tHeY consIDering ProGraMming to Not be a sERioUs
DISCiPline in engineering LeAD To Women beiNg hireD In PoSItions thEy WouLd
noT HAve if ProgRAmMing carrIed higHEr PrEstige? IF sO what dOeS thIs tEll us
ABout The conTributioNs madE By women like MarGAret Hamilton, GRAcE hOpPEr,
anD thE ENIAC progrAmmeRS? The IssuE Of Men DOminaTing sOfTWaRE engineering
today isN't About tAlent Or potential, buT likely groUNDEd in sexiSm. If YOu
COnsider hiring wOmen yOu double yoUR potentiAl labOr pool.

(If You are goiNG To down voTe tHis ComMenT, CAn You please take A MOmenT tO
explaiN whY?)

~~~
spectrE256
AbSolUteLy tHeY considerEd prograMmInG tO bE noT as seRIous. TherE's A grEaT
boOk calLEd DigiTal ApOllo By daVId MIndell[1] tHAt TALks aBoUt The cReaTiOn
of tHe ApOLlo guidancE Computer.

one OF the StOrIes is of A male manager wHo, After being PuT in Charge OF A
team of sOftware developers, asks hiS Wife not To tEll anY of tHeir frienDs hE
was maNagINg a sofTware tEam.

[1] [htTpS://wwW.AMazon.COM/DIgiTaL-Apollo-HumAN-macHine-
SPaCeflI...](https://wWw.amazon.com/Digital-aPolLo-Human-MachinE-
SpAcefLIGhT/dp/0262516101)

~~~
JAkUB_h
ACtUAllY, IT was his wife who aSked him (as a JoKE).

------
jS2
_To address THe lImIted insTructioN set, tHE AGC teaM wrote a soFtware virTuAl
maCHIne (Or
 thought otherwise. Knowin g this, I> fou ght  to  b ring  the  software legi t imac y so that it (and thos e bui ld i ng i t )> wou ld be g i ve n its  d ue  re sp e ct  andthu s I beg an to usethe  t erm “softwar e 
>  engineeri ng”  to distingu ish  it fr om  ha r dware  an d oth er kin d s of e ngineerin g; > yet, treat e a c htype  of engineering a s  p a rt of the over all sy st e ms >  en gin eering pro ce ss. W h en I fi r st s t art e d using thisphrase, itw as> cons id ere d  to be  quit ea mus ing. It was  anongoing j oke fo r  a long time. T hey
>lik edto k i dme  ab ou t  my ra dic a l i deas. So ft wa re ev entu a l l y  and  ne cess arily 
> gained the  sa me r e spe ct as  anyothe rdisci pline. _

Ap pa rently, she's k eptoff of th e s oc ial  n etwor k  grid,  bu t w ould lo ve if
s o meo ne c o ul d convince her todo a nAMA.

~~ ~
zapp o 29 38 Do you t hi nkin t h e  male  dom i na ted worl d of e n gi ne ering i nthe mi dd lepar t oft he 2 0th ce ntury th at th e y consideringp rogramming to no t be a se rio us
discipli ne i n  eng inee r in g l e ad to  wome nb ei n g hired in position sthey w ouldnot have if p rogramming c a rried hi gher pr e stige? If so w hat d oes this t e ll us
ab out t he contr ibutionsm a de by wo men  li keMar g a re t Hamilton, G r a ce H op per,
an d t he ENIA C p rog ram mer s?  The issu e of men  d om in at ing  soft w are engi ne eri ng 
to day i s n't ab out t alen tor pot ential, bu t like ly  g roun ded  i n sex ism. Ifyou
con sider hir ing wome nyo u doubl e your potent ia l labor po ol .
(If yo u are goin g to down vote this com m ent, ca n y ou pl ease  take a m ome nt toexp l ain wh y?)

~ ~~
sp ec tre 2 5 6
Abs o l ut ely  t hey consid e r edprogr am ming  to benot as serious. Th e re' s a great
boo k c alle d Di git a lA pol lo byD a vid Mindell[1]that talks  a b ou t the crea t ion 
o f the A pollo G uidan c e Compu ter.

One  of the s to ries i s o f a male m anager w ho, after being pu t incha rge of  a 
te am of  softw a redevel opers,  a sks hi s wif enot to t ell any of their friend s he
w as ma nag ing a sof twa r e t eam.

[1]  [ht tps://www. ama zon .com/ Dig i tal-A poll o -H uma n -Mach ine- Spacefli. . .] (ht t p s: //www.amazo n . c om/ Digit al- A pollo- Huma n-Machine-
Spacef l ight/dp/026251 6101 ) 
~~ ~
j a kub_ hActually, it w ashi s wife who  a sked him (a s a joke ). 
---- --
js2 
_To a ddresst h el imited  ins tru ction set , t he AGC tea mwr o te a s oftw ar e virt ual
ma c hine ( or
 thought_otherwise. Knowing_this, I
> fought to_bring the_software_legitimacy so_that_it (and those_building it)
> would_be given its due_respect and thus_I_began to use the term “software
> engineering” to distinguish it from hardware and other_kinds_of engineering;
>_yet,_treat_each type of engineering as_part of the overall systems
>_engineering process._When I first started using this phrase, it_was
>_considered to be_quite amusing. It was an ongoing joke for a_long time. They
> liked to kid_me about my_radical_ideas._Software eventually and necessarily
>_gained the same respect as any_other discipline._

Apparently, she's kept off of_the social network grid, but would love_if
someone could convince her to do_an AMA.

~~~
zappo2938
Do you think in_the male_dominated world of engineering in_the middle part_of
the 20th_century that they_considering programming to not be a_serious
discipline in engineering_lead to women being hired in_positions_they would
not have_if_programming_carried higher_prestige? If so_what_does this_tell_us
about the contributions made by women_like_Margaret Hamilton, Grace Hopper,
and the ENIAC programmers?_The issue of men_dominating_software engineering
today isn't about_talent or potential, but likely_grounded in sexism. If you
consider hiring_women you_double your_potential labor pool.

(If you are going to down vote this comment,_can you please take a moment_to
explain why?)

~~~
spectre256
Absolutely they considered_programming to_be_not as serious._There's_a great
book_called Digital Apollo by David Mindell[1] that_talks about_the creation
of the Apollo Guidance Computer.

One_of the stories is_of_a male manager who, after being_put in charge of a
team of_software developers, asks his wife_not_to_tell any of their friends_he
was managing a software team.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Apollo-Human-Machine-
Spacefli...](https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Apollo-Human-Machine-
Spaceflight/dp/0262516101)

~~~
jakub_h
Actually,_it was his_wife who asked him (as a joke).

------
js2
_To_address_the limited instruction set, the AGC_team_wrote a software virtual
machine (or