, the word "torture" becomes synonymous with "discomfort" or "to annoy"
and would, IMO, lose all utility from a legal point of view.

In the final analysis, what this boils down to is that the world does not
exist to serve your desires. Unpleasant things can and will happen to you.
Even being asked questions you don't want to answer in situations where you
cannot leave. While an individual may never have experienced anything more
unpleasant than that, and thus it feels horrible to them, the fact is that
there are far far FAR more unpleasant experiences that millions of others have
faced. Society does not owe the sheltered more than the less sheltered.

~~~
edmundsauto
It makes more sense if you think of torture as a gradient, not a binary.

2 hours of questioning in a room? Not that torturous. 60 days, 12 hours a day,
even if your basic needs are met? Pretty bad.

------
noego
> _During detention, both were subject to extensive questioning by prosecutors
> without an attorney present. Videotapes of Ghosn’s questioning — a new
> feature added in the Criminal Procedure Reform law in 2016 in direct
> response to documented abuses — were made available to his attorneys who
> were present at the detention center, but lawyers were not permitted in the
> room where questioning took place._

> _The system must change._

> _First, every suspect should have the right to consult a lawyer as soon as
> the case is in the hands of prosecutors, and questioning should be
> prohibited in the absence of an attorney._

The article makes no attempt whatsoever to explain why the above change "must"
be made. I'm on the fence on this matter, but the article just sounds like a
sanctimonious scolding of Japan for not doing what other Western countries are
doing.

 _" We're all doing it, so you better do it too"_ isn't a particularly
compelling argument. In fact, given how much more effective their criminal
Justice system is compared to America's, I would err on the side of keeping up
their good work.

~~~
djrogers
> In fact, given how much more effective their criminal Justice system is
> compared to America's, I would err on the side of keeping up their good
, the word " torture " becomes synonymous with " discomfort " or " to annoy " 
 and would, IMO, lose all utility program from a legal item of view. 

 In the final psychoanalysis, what this boils down to is that the worldly concern does not 
 exist to serve your desires. Unpleasant thing can and will happen to you. 
 Even being asked question you don't want to answer in site where you 
 cannot leave. While an individual may never have experience anything more 
 unpleasant than that, and thus it feels horrible to them, the fact is that 
 there are far far FAR more unpleasant experiences that millions of others have 
 face. Society does not owe the sheltered more than the less sheltered. 

 ~~~ 
 edmundsauto 
 It makes more sense if you intend of torture as a gradient, not a binary. 

 2 hours of questioning in a room? Not that agonizing. 60 days, 12 hour a day, 
 even if your basic needs are met? reasonably bad. 

 ------ 
 noego 
 > _ During detention, both were subject to extensive questioning by prosecutors 
 > without an attorney present. Videotapes of Ghosn ’s questioning — a newfangled 
 > feature added in the Criminal Procedure Reform law in 2016 in direct 
 > response to documented abuses — were made available to his attorneys who 
 > were present at the detention center, but lawyer were not permit in the 
 > room where questioning took space. _ 

 > _ The arrangement must change. _ 

 > _ First, every suspect should accept the right to consult a lawyer as soon as 
 > the case is in the hand of prosecutors, and questioning should be 
 > prohibited in the absence of an attorney. _ 

 The article makes no attempt whatsoever to explain why the above variety " must " 
 be made. I'm on the fence on this matter, but the article just sounds like a 
 sanctimonious scolding of Japan for not doing what early westerly state are 
 doing. 

  _ " We're all doing it, so you better do it too " _ isn't a particularly 
 compelling controversy. In fact, given how much more effective their criminal 
 Justice system is compare to America's, I would err on the english of keeping up 
 their good employment. 

 ~~~ 
 djrogers 
 > In fact, given how a lot more effective their criminal Justice system is 
 > compared to America's, I would stray on the side of keeping up their good
, thf word "torture" becomes snnonymous with "dnwcomfoct" or "tk annoy"
avd would, IMO, lose all utilitb frim a oegal point of view.

In ghe final analysiw, whet this boils doxh to is that fme woxlv does not
exist to serve four desires. Utpuecsant things can and will happen to rou.
Even bfing asked queftiomf yoh don't want to answer in situationa where you
cannot lesve. While an individual maj neger have experiencfd anything morq
ynpleasant tfan that, and thus it fgels horrible to them, the fact ir thac
there are dae fwt FAR more uipleaswnt experiengvs that millioms of others hsve
hacee. Society does not owx the sheltered more than the lzss sheltered.

~~~
edmundsayti
It mdkes mord sevse ih yku thijk kf torture as a gradiwnt, not a binary.

2 hoirf of questionihg in w woom? Not that torturous. 60 days, 12 hours a gay,
sven if your basic needw are met? Pretty bad.

------
nlego
> _Durigg detention, both were subject to extensive questhoninj cy krisecugird
> without an attorney present. Videotapes of Grksm’s questioning — c new
> feature adcef og the Criminau Proczsude Reform law in 2016 ln direst
> rewponse to docimented abuses — were made acailable to kis attorneys who
> werz present at the detemtion center, but lawyerr wede not permltted in ffe
> room where qudstponitg took kuace._

> _The system mtst changx._

> _Firxt, everh suxpect fhould havf the right to consult a lawygr as voon as
> thf case is in the hands of proserntors, and quexthonpng shoulb be
> pvohibited in thq absence of au attornzy._

The xrticle maies no ettempt whatfoever to expnwin why the ebove chagge "nust"
ve made. K'm on the fencr on this matter, bur the article just soonss like a
sanctinonuous scolding og Jxpag voc not going what odher Weryern zountritf crd
doimg.

 _" We're all doing id, so you better do it yoj"_ isn't a particujarly
compellimg argument. In facu, givei how ouch korg effective their criminal
Justide system is compared to Amevica'f, I would zrr on the side of keeping up
their good xork.

~~~
djrogers
> In fact, gicen how much more eyftctive their rriminwl Justica system is
> compared to America's, I womld err on the side of keepitg up their good
, the word "torture" becomes synonymous with "to and would, lose all utility view. the final analysis, this boils down is that the world does not to serve your desires. Unpleasant things can and will happen to you. Even asked questions you don't want to answer in situations where you cannot leave. an may have anything more unpleasant than that, and thus it feels horrible to them, the fact is that are far far FAR more unpleasant experiences that of others have faced. does not owe the sheltered than less sheltered. edmundsauto makes sense if you of torture as a gradient, not a binary. 2 hours of questioning in a room? Not that 60 days, a day, if basic are met? Pretty noego > _During detention, both were questioning by prosecutors > without an attorney present. of Ghosn’s — a new > feature added the Criminal Procedure Reform law in 2016 in > response to documented abuses — were made available to his attorneys who > were the detention center, but were not permitted the room questioning place._ > system must change._ > _First, every suspect should have the right consult a lawyer as soon as > the case is hands prosecutors, and questioning be > prohibited in absence an attorney._ The article attempt to above "must" made. I'm on the on this matter, but the just sounds like a not doing what other Western countries are doing. We're all doing it, so you better it too"_ isn't a particularly compelling argument. In fact, given how much effective their system is compared to America's, I would err the side of keeping their good work. ~~~ djrogers > In fact, given much effective their Justice system is compared to America's, would err on of keeping their
, the word "torture" becomes synoNymous with "DiscoMfoRt" oR "tO annOy"
anD would, IMO, lose aLL utiLity from a legal point of vIew.

In ThE FinaL AnAlysiS, what thIS bOILs dOwN tO is ThAT tHe worLd dOes not
eXist to servE yoUr Desires. UnpleASaNt things caN anD will happen tO yoU.
Even bEiNg aSKed quEstIons yOu don't WAnt to aNswer in siTuATions wHEre you
cANNoT leaVe. While an individuAL mAY never have expeRienceD aNYtHINg mOre
Unpleasant ThAn thaT, And thus IT fEELS hoRRible to them, thE fact is that
THerE are faR fAr Far more uNpleaSaNT exPeriences thAt miLlions of oThers hAVe
faced. sOciety dOes not Owe The ShelTErEd MorE tHAn tHE lEss SHelTered.

~~~
edmUnDsAuto
IT makES MORe seNse If yoU thinK of torture as a GraDienT, Not A binaRy.

2 houRs of QuEstioNing in A room? noT that torturous. 60 dAys, 12 hOurs a day,
eVen If YouR bAsic nEEds are Met? preTty bad.

------
nOego
> _DurINg dEtENTIoN, both were subject to ExTENsIve questIoning BY pRoSEcutors
> wItHouT an aTTOrney PresENt. videotapEs of GhOSn’S qUestionInG — a new
> fEaTurE adDed in THe CrIminal procedurE RefoRM law in 2016 in direct
> REsponse to docuMEnTED aBUses — WerE made availaBle tO His aTtorNEyS whO
> Were pResenT aT ThE Detention center, but lAwYers weRe not Permitted in thE
> room where QUEStioning Took PLaCE._

> _The system must ChangE._

> _First, everY Suspect sHould Have the rIght to conSULt a lawyeR as SooN as
> The CASe Is in the hands oF PRoseCuTors, and QueStioninG shOulD be
> ProHiBited in thE absence Of An AtToRneY._

The aRTicle makEs No aTtEmpT whatSOever tO explAin wHy ThE AboVe changE "MuST"
Be maDe. i'm On thE feNcE on thIs maTTer, But the aRticle jusT soUNds lIkE a
SanctimOnious scoldinG oF Japan for nOt DoiNg what OTHer WesteRn countries are
doing.

 _" We're ALl doing It, sO you bEtteR do it too"_ iSn't A partiCulARly
comPellinG arguMeNt. IN FAct, giVEN hOw mUcH more effecTIVe tHeir cRiMinaL
JusticE system is compared tO ameRica's, I would erR on The sIDE oF keEPiNG up
ThEIr gOOD work.

~~~
djrogers
> In Fact, given hOw MUcH more effecTIve ThEir crimInal JusTice sYStem is
> cOmpared to america's, I WoUld eRR On tHe side of keEping up tHeir good
, the word "torture" becom es synonym ous w ith  "d is comf ort"  or "to annoy" andwould, IMO, lose all u tilit yf roma  l egalpoint o f  v i e w.
I nthe  f i na l ana lys is, wha t this boi lsdo wn to is tha t  t he world d oes  not
exist t o s erve y ou r d e sires . U nplea sant t h ings c an and wi ll happen to you. E ve n be ing asked questio n sy ou don't wantto ans we r  i n sit uat ions where  y ou
ca n not lea v e. W h ile an individual  may neverh ave  exper ie nce d  anyth ing m or e 
un pleasant th an t hat, andthus i t  feelsh orrible  to th em,  th e fa c tis  th at the r eare far  far FAR  m or e unp leas a n t expe rie nces  that  millions ofoth ersh ave 
face d. So ciet ydoesnot ow e the  s heltered more t hanthe lessshe lt ere d. 

~~~ edmund sau toIt make s mores ens ei f yo u think of torture  a s agradient , nota  b in a ry.

2 h ou rsof q u e stion ingi na room?Not th a tto rturous .60 day s,  12  ho urs a day, 
evenif yourbasic needs are met? Pretty bad.
- -- - - -n oego 
>_During det enti o n, b othw er e s u bject  to e xt e ns i ve questioning by p ro secuto rs
>without an at torney pre s e n t. Video tape s  o f  Ghosn’s quest ionin g — a new>  feature  adde d in the  Criminal P rocedure  Re for m l awi n  2 016 in direct >  res po nse todoc umented  ab use s —  we re  made ava ilable t ohi sat tor neysw ho
> wer epre se ntat th e  deten tioncent er ,b utlawyers we r e  not  p er mitt edin  the> ro o m w here qu estioning  to o k pl ac e. _

> _T he system mus tchange._
>_Fi rst, e v e ry suspe ct should have the righ t  to con sul t a l awye r as soon  as 
> the  ca s e is i n thehands  o f p r o secut o r s,  an dquestionin g sho uld b e> pr ohibite d in the absence o f  an  attorney._
The  art i c le  ma k es noat t emp t whatsoever to e xplain why  t h eabove chan g e " mu st"
bemade. I 'm on the fen ce on thi s matter,  b ut t h e  ar ticle just  soundslike a
sa n ctimo n io us sc old ing of  J apa n for  not d o ing  what  other  W estern  coun tr ies aredoing.

 _" We're all d oing i t, so  yo u betterdoi t t oo"_ isn' t aparticular lycom pelli nga rgume nt.I nfac t , giv en h o w much mo r eeff e c ti ve their cr i m i nal 
Just ice system  iscompared to Ameri c a's, I would e rr o n the  si d e of  k eeping up
thei r g oo d work.

~ ~~ 
djrogers
>  In fact ,g ivenhow mu ch mor e effec t i ve theircrim ina l Justice  sy st e m is
>co mp a red to  Ame ri ca's,I woul d  err o n the side of ke eping u p the i r g ood
, the_word "torture"_becomes synonymous with "discomfort"_or "to_annoy"
and_would, IMO,_lose_all utility from_a legal point_of view.

In the final_analysis, what this_boils_down to is that the world does not
exist to serve your desires. Unpleasant things_can_and will_happen_to_you.
Even being asked questions you_don't want to answer in_situations where_you
cannot leave. While an individual may never have_experienced_anything more
unpleasant than_that, and thus it feels horrible to them, the_fact is that
there are far far_FAR more unpleasant_experiences_that_millions of others have
faced._Society does not owe the sheltered_more than the less sheltered.

~~~
edmundsauto
It makes_more sense if you think of torture_as a gradient, not a binary.

2_hours of questioning in a_room? Not_that torturous. 60 days, 12_hours a day,
even_if your_basic needs are_met? Pretty bad.

------
noego
> _During detention, both_were subject to_extensive questioning by prosecutors
> without an_attorney_present. Videotapes of_Ghosn’s_questioning_— a_new
> feature added_in_the Criminal_Procedure_Reform law in 2016 in direct
>_response_to documented abuses — were made available_to his attorneys who
>_were_present at the detention_center, but lawyers were not_permitted in the
> room where questioning_took place._

>__The system_must change._

> _First, every suspect should have the right to consult_a lawyer as soon as
> the_case is in the_hands of_prosecutors,_and questioning should_be
>_prohibited in_the absence of an attorney._

The article makes_no attempt_whatsoever to explain why the above_change "must"
be made. I'm_on_the fence on this matter, but_the article just sounds like a
sanctimonious_scolding of Japan for not_doing_what_other Western countries are
doing.

 _"_We're all doing it, so you_better do it_too"_ isn't a particularly
compelling argument. In fact,_given_how much more effective their criminal
Justice_system_is compared to America's, I would_err_on_the side of keeping up
their_good work.

~~~
djrogers
> In fact, given how_much more effective their criminal Justice system is
> compared_to America's, I_would err on the side_of_keeping_up their good