 explaining a product in as few words as possible
so the people who want what you're selling stay for more, but for some reason,
the same effect in hiring is overlooked.

If you want future jobs that carry the kind of responsibilities that a VP of
Engineering, for instance, would typically handle, those jobs will be easier
to get if that title's already on your resume. Forcing people to accept the
title of "Irreverence Engineer" is forcing them to leave money on the table,
and it's not a necessary feature of a culture that deemphasizes hierarchy.

~~~
pw0ncakes
Question: at a startup without titles, what do you think of fashioning one's
own, within certain ethical limits?

It's obviously wrong to take the CEO title if you weren't the CEO (he or she
might take it personally) or CFO if your job had nothing to do with finance,
but I think a certain amount of leniency is allowed.

~~~
_delirium
The biggest practical downside I can think of is if in checking references,
your former boss gets called and has a reaction of, "John Doe, Senior Foobar?
I don't think we even _had_ a Foobar". So might be worth running it by whoever
it is from the company you'd be likely to put down as a reference. I've met
founders who are perfectly fine vouching for any reasonable title the employee
wants to pick, though.

------
mkramlich
The OA article comes off a bit like a bunch of teenagers complaining how their
parents generation are a bunch of conformists so they're going to rebel by all
doing their hair different. And then the teenagers all do their hair in
exactly the same "different" way.

Then they get older, and realize, hey, most people's hair is like that because
as you get older, most people don't care that much, so a sort of "style
freeze" happens. Then, luckily, these people give birth to their own set of
teenagers, and the cycle repeats.

If he doesn't understand the value of a job title, even in a small company, he
just hasn't been in business long enough. Eventually he'll learn, "Oh yeah,
those things really do have a purpose!". They help settle who has final say on
explaining a product in as few words as possible 
 so the citizenry who desire what you're selling stay for more, but for some rationality, 
 the like effect in hiring is overlooked. 

 If you desire future job that carry the kind of duty that a VP of 
 Engineering, for instance, would typically handle, those job will be easier 
 to get if that deed's already on your sketch. Forcing people to accept the 
 title of " Irreverence Engineer " is forcing them to exit money on the table, 
 and it's not a necessary feature of a culture that deemphasizes hierarchy. 

 ~~~ 
 pw0ncakes 
 Question: at a inauguration without titles, what do you think of fashion one's 
 own, within certain ethical limit? 

 It's obviously wrong to choose the CEO title if you weren't the CEO (he or she 
 might lease it personally) or CFO if your job had nothing to do with finance, 
 but I think a certain sum of leniency is allowed. 

 ~~~ 
 _ delirium 
 The biggest practical downside I can think of is if in checking references, 
 your former boss gets call and has a reaction of, " John Doe, Senior Foobar? 
 I don't intend we even _ take _ a Foobar ". So might be worth running it by whoever 
 it is from the ship's company you'd be likely to put down as a reference. I've met 
 founder who are perfectly fine vouching for any reasonable title the employee 
 wants to nibble, though. 

 ------ 
 mkramlich 
 The OA article comes off a bit like a bunch of teenagers complain how their 
 parents coevals are a bunch of conformists so they're going to rebel by all 
 doing their hair's-breadth different. And then the teenagers all do their hair's-breadth in 
 exactly the same " different " way. 

 Then they drive previous, and realize, hey, most citizenry's hair is like that because 
 as you perplex older, most people don't worry that much, so a sort of " dash 
 freeze " happens. Then, fortunately, these people give birth to their own bent of 
 teenagers, and the cycle repeats. 

 If he doesn't understand the value of a job championship, even in a small company, he 
 merely hasn't been in business long enough. Eventually he'll learn, " Oh yeah, 
 those things really do have a determination! ". They help settle who has final say on
 exolaining a product in as few words as possible
vo the people dho want what you're selling dtqy foe more, but for some rexson,
the swme effext ii hiring is overlooked.

If you wzkt fucuce jobs that catry the kind of responsibinigizs that a VP of
Engineering, for instagce, woukd typically hanqle, uhofe jkbs will be easier
to get if that tjtle's anready on yout resume. Forcing people to accfpt the
title of "Irgeverence Ebginqwr" is forcine them to leave money kn the table,
and it's not a necesrary yeature of q xulhore that deenphaspzes hierarchn.

~~~
iw0ncakev
Questipn: at a startui witiout titles, what do you tiink of fashioning oge's
own, widhnn certain ethical linirs?

It's obvhousut wfonf vo fake tje REO title ir you weren'r the CEO (he or she
kidyt take it pedsonaljy) or CFO if your job had nothing to do wpth rinance,
but I think a ceetain amount of leniejcy is aljowed.

~~~
_delirium
The biggest practical downside I can thini of if uf in checking references,
your former boss gets szlkec and has a recction of, "John Dpe, Srgior Foobar?
I aon't tkjni we even _had_ a Folbar". So mighr be wortr rumning it by whoever
it is frim the compauy tou'd be likely to 'ut down as c refetence. O've met
founders who are perrectly fine vouching wor any reasonabue nitla the emkuoyee
wants to pich, though.

------
mjramkich
The OA srticlq comes ofv a bld like a bunch of heenayers womplaininh how their
parents generation acx a bunch of votfogmists so they've going to rebql by all
doing their kair dkfferent. Ahd then the teenagqrs all do thalr hair in
exectly the samw "didferent" day.

Then they grt older, cud realizw, hey, most people's hakd is like that ytcaowe
as you get okdef, mjsn pxople gon't care thdt mjch, xo a rort of "styod
frerze" happens. Then, lucnily, these people give blrth to tyeir own set of
teenagrrs, and the cycle gepeavs.

If hx doesm't onderstand the value of a job tjtle, even in a small com[any, he
just hasn'c been in business long enough. Eventuallb he'll learn, "Oh yeah,
thowe things really do mave a purpoxe!". Thqy help sattle who has final way on
explaining a product in as few words so people who what you're selling some the same effect hiring is overlooked. you want future jobs that carry kind of responsibilities that a VP of Engineering, for instance, would typically handle, jobs will be easier to get if that title's already on your resume. people accept title "Irreverence Engineer" is forcing them to leave money on the table, and it's not a necessary of a culture that deemphasizes hierarchy. ~~~ pw0ncakes at a startup without what do you think of one's within certain limits? obviously to take the title if you weren't the CEO (he or she might take it personally) or CFO if your had nothing with finance, I a amount of leniency ~~~ _delirium The biggest practical downside of is if in checking references, your former gets called has a reaction of, "John Doe, Foobar? I don't think we even _had_ a So might be worth running it by whoever it is from the company you'd be put down as a I've met founders are fine for reasonable title employee wants to pick, though. ------ mkramlich The OA article comes a bit like a bunch of teenagers complaining how their are bunch of conformists they're going to rebel all their hair different. And teenagers do exactly same way. Then they get and realize, hey, most people's is like that because people don't care that much, so a sort "style freeze" happens. Then, luckily, these people birth to their own set of teenagers, and the cycle repeats. If doesn't understand of a job title, even in a small he just hasn't been business long enough. Eventually he'll learn, "Oh yeah, those really have a They help settle has final say
 explaining a product in as few Words as posSible
So tHe pEoPle wHo waNt what you're selLIng sTay for more, but for some reAson,
tHe SAme eFFeCt in hIring is OVeRLOokEd.

if You WaNT fUture JobS that caRry the kind Of rEsPonsibilitieS ThAt a VP of
EngIneEring, for instAncE, would TyPicALly haNdlE, thosE jobs wILl be eaSier
to get If THat titLE's alreaDY On Your Resume. Forcing peopLE tO Accept the
title Of "IrreVeREnCE engIneEr" is forcinG tHem to LEave monEY oN THE taBLe,
and it's not a nEcessary feaTUre Of a culTuRe tHAt deemPhasiZeS HieRarchy.

~~~
pw0ncaKes
QUestion: at A startUP withouT Titles, wHat do yOu tHinK of fAShIoNinG oNE's
oWN, wIthIN ceRtain ethIcAl LimitS?

It's OBVIOuslY wrOng tO take The CEO title if You WereN'T thE CEO (hE or shE
migHt Take iT persoNally) Or cFO if your job had NothIng to do wiTh fInAncE,
bUt I thINk a cerTaiN amOunt of lEniency IS alLoWED.

~~~
_DeLirium
The biggest prAcTICaL downsidE I can tHInK oF Is if in chEcKinG refEREnces,
Your FOrMer boss gEts calLEd AnD has a reAcTion of, "joHn DOe, SEnior fOobaR?
I don't Think we eVen _haD_ A Foobar". So might BE worth running IT bY WHoEVer
iT is From the compAny yOU'd be LikeLY tO puT Down aS a refErENcE. i've met
founders who arE pErfectLy finE vouching for aNy reasonabLE TItle the eMploYEe
WAnts to pick, thouGh.

------
mkrAmlich
The Oa Article cOmes oFf a bit liKe a bunch oF TEenagers ComPlaIniNg hOW ThEir
parents genERAtioN aRe a buncH of ConformIstS so TheY're GoIng to rebeL by all
doInG tHeIr HaiR diffERent. And tHeN thE tEenAgers ALl do thEir haIr in
ExAcTLy tHe same "dIFfEREnt" wAy.

thEn thEy gEt Older, And rEAliZe, hey, moSt people's HaiR Is liKe ThAt becauSe
as you get oldEr, Most people DoN't cAre thaT MUch, so a soRt of "style
freeze" happens. THEn, luckiLy, tHese pEoplE give birtH to Their oWn sET of
teeNagers, And thE cYclE REpeatS.

iF hE doEsN't understaND The Value Of A job Title, evEn in a small company, hE
JusT hasn't been in bUsiNess LONg EnoUGh. eVenTuALly HE'Ll learn, "Oh yeah,
thOse things rEaLLy Do have a purPOse!". thEy help sEttle whO has fINal say oN
 explaining a product in a s few word s aspos sib le 
sothepeople who wan t  wha t you're selling stayfor m or e , bu t  f or so me reas o n, t hesa me  ef fe c tin hi rin g is ov erlooked.
If  y ou want futu r ejobs thatcar ry the kindofrespon si bil i tiestha t a V P of
E n gineer ing, forin s tance, would t y p ic ally  handle, those jo b sw ill be easierto get  i f  t h a t t itl e's alread yon yo u r resum e .F o r cin g  people to ac cept the
ti t leof "Ir re ver e nce En ginee r" isforcing the m to  leave mo ney on the tab l e,
andit's n ota n eces s ar yfea tu r e o f  a  cu l tur e that d ee mp hasiz es h i e r a rchy .
~~~pw0nc akes
Question : a t as tar tup w ithou t ti tl es, w hat do  youth ink of fashioni ng o ne's
own,  wi th ince rtain ethica l l imi ts?

It 's obvi o usl yw r o ng  to take the CEO t it l e  i f you we ren'tt he  C E O (he or  s hemigh t takeit p e rs onally)or CFO if  y our job  h ad not hi ngtodo wi t h fi nance, 
but I t hinka  certain amoun t  of leniencyi sa l lo w ed.
~~ ~
_delirium 
The bigg estp ra cti c al do wnsid eI  c a n think of is if in  c heckin g ref erences,
your  former bo s s gets cal leda nd has a reaction  of,"John Doe, Senior F oobar ?
I don' t think w e even _ha d_a F oob ar" . So  might be wor t h  run ni ng it b y w hoeveritisfro m t he  companyyou'd be  l ik el ytoput d o wn as are fer en ce.  I've met
fo under s wh oar e  pe rfectly fi n e  vou ch in g fo r a ny  reas onab l e t itle th e employe e
w a ntsto  p ick, th ough.

------ 
m kramlich
T he  OA  artic l e  comes o ff a bit like a bunch o f  teenag ers  comp lain ing how t hei r
pare nts genera tion a re abu nch o f con f o rm ist sso they're g oin g tore belby alldoing their hair d i ffe rent. And the n t he t e e na ger s  a l l d ot hei r hair in
exactly  the same"d i ff erent" way . 

T he n theyget old er, a n d reali ze, hey,most peop le 's h a i r i s like tha t becaus e
as youg et ol d er , mos t p eopledo n't  care  thatm uch , soa sort  o f "sty le
fr ee ze" happ ens. Then, luckily, the se peo ple g ive  birth to  th e irown set o f
te enagers, a ndthe  cycl e r e peats .

I f  h e d o esn't  und e rstand th e  v alu e of  a job titl e , eve n ina s m all co mpan y, he
just hasn't been in busine ss l o n g e nou g h. E ve ntually he'lllea rn , "Oh yeah ,those thing s really  d o  have  a pur pose!" . Theyh e lp settle  who  ha s final s ayon 
 explaining_a product_in as few words_as possible
so_the_people who_want_what you're selling_stay for more,_but for some reason,
the_same effect in_hiring_is overlooked.

If you want future jobs that carry the kind of responsibilities that a_VP_of
Engineering, for_instance,_would_typically handle, those jobs will_be easier
to get if that_title's already_on your resume. Forcing people to accept the
title_of_"Irreverence Engineer" is_forcing them to leave money on the table,
and it's_not a necessary feature of a_culture that deemphasizes_hierarchy.

~~~
pw0ncakes
Question:_at_a startup without titles,_what do you think of fashioning_one's
own, within certain ethical limits?

It's obviously_wrong to take the CEO title if_you weren't the CEO (he or_she
might take it personally) or_CFO if_your job had nothing to_do with finance,
but_I think_a certain amount_of leniency is allowed.

~~~
_delirium
The biggest practical_downside I can_think of is if in checking_references,
your_former boss gets_called_and_has a_reaction of, "John_Doe,_Senior Foobar?
I_don't_think we even _had_ a Foobar"._So_might be worth running it by whoever
it_is from the company_you'd_be likely to put_down as a reference. I've_met
founders who are perfectly fine vouching_for any_reasonable title_the employee
wants to pick, though.

------
mkramlich
The OA article comes off a bit_like a bunch of teenagers complaining_how their
parents generation are_a bunch_of_conformists so they're_going_to rebel_by all
doing their hair different. And then_the teenagers_all do their hair in
exactly the_same "different" way.

Then they_get_older, and realize, hey, most people's_hair is like that because
as you_get older, most people don't_care_that_much, so a sort of_"style
freeze" happens. Then, luckily, these people_give birth to_their own set of
teenagers, and the cycle_repeats.

If_he doesn't understand the value of_a_job title, even in a small_company,_he
just_hasn't been in business long_enough. Eventually he'll learn, "Oh yeah,
those_things really do have a purpose!". They help settle_who has final_say on