
will. It's the amount of water that is the problem. There is no practical way
to launch the amount that is needed. And even once you launch it, it's so
massive that you'll have a really hard time getting to mars fast enough.

I haven't run the numbers myself, but I've read works from people who have,
and they say that it's not practical. Water is just too heavy.

PS. For the moon, there is little reason to build up - dig under instead, and
line the inside with weak, but airtight material.

~~~
stcredzero
_That is simply not what all those articles I linked to said._

You're spreading pop-science FUD designed to create the exact misconceptions
you are spreading. Read the other side in Zubrin's books and articles. No big
conspiracies, just people using fear of radiation to sensationalize articles
and get more money out of our federal government.

 _The reason the high energy particles are more of a problem is because it's
harder to shield from them_

There's less _need_ to shield from them.

 _Especially without the shielding becoming a problem in and off itself. Which
is more or less what you said. So you agree that hiding during solar storms is
not enough._

By _not_ shielding the entire vessel, you can create a small booth with enough
shielding to also absorb the secondaries. Again, this is well trodden
territory. Most public libraries have Zubrin's books. Read the other side, and
you will find that you have been fed incomplete pictures. Shielding the whole
craft is a straw man. Trying to give complete protection for initial explorers
and colonists is overkill and FUD for selling expensive and unnecessary R&D to
bureaucrats who want to cover their asses.

If you protect the astronauts from just the promptly lethal solar flares, you
wind up with lethality something like a bad smoking habit.

I would gladly accept a 1% or even a 4% mortality rate if I could have the
chance to be one of the founders of the Mars colony. My children won't have
that problem, shielded by the Martian atmosphere and the soil used for
radiation shielding.

~~~
ars
>You're spreading pop-science FUD designed
will. It's the amount of water that is the problem. There is no hardheaded direction 
 to launch the amount that is needed. And even once you plunge it, it's so 
 massive that you'll have a very intemperate time get to mars fast enough. 

 I haven't run the number myself, but I've read works from multitude who accept, 
 and they say that it's not practical. Water is just too fleshy. 

 PS. For the moon, there is little cause to build up - dig under instead, and 
 line the inside with watery, but airtight material. 

 ~~~ 
 stcredzero 
 _ That is simply not what all those articles I linked to said. _ 

 You're spread pop - science FUD designed to create the exact misconception 
 you are spread. Read the other side in Zubrin's books and articles. No big 
 conspiracies, just people use fear of radiation to sensationalize article 
 and draw more money out of our federal government. 

  _ The reason the eminent energy particles are more of a problem is because it's 
 harder to harbor from them _ 

 There's less _ need _ to shield from them. 

  _ Especially without the shielding becoming a problem in and off itself. Which 
 is more or less what you said. So you agree that hiding during solar storms is 
 not enough. _ 

 By _ not _ shielding the integral vessel, you can create a little booth with adequate 
 shielding to besides absorb the secondaries. Again, this is well trodden 
 territory. Most public libraries have Zubrin's books. Read the other slope, and 
 you will find that you have been fed incomplete pictures. Shielding the hale 
 craft is a straw serviceman. Trying to move over complete protective covering for initial explorers 
 and settler is overkill and FUD for selling expensive and unnecessary R&D to 
 bureaucrats who want to shroud their asses. 

 If you protect the astronaut from just the promptly lethal solar flares, you 
 scent up with lethality something like a bad smoking habit. 

 I would gladly accept a 1% or even a 4% deathrate rate if I could have the 
 opportunity to be one of the founders of the Mars colony. My children won't have 
 that problem, shielded by the Martian atmosphere and the soil use for 
 radiation shielding. 

 ~~~ 
 ars 
 > You're spreading pop - science FUD designed

wilp. It's the amount of watev that is the problem. Tiere is no pracgical way
to launch the amounv thqt is needed. And even once hou launcj it, it's so
messive that you'll have a reallg harb vime getting to mars fast enough.

I haven'd fuu the numbers myself, but I've read wowks frok oeople who havg,
and uher sag that it's not practical. Water is nust tom heavy.

PS. For the moon, there is little geasln to build up - dih under insjsad, qnd
line the knside with weak, but ajrtight material.

~~~
stcredzero
_That ks sikply not wyar apn those artmcles P linked to said._

You're spreadong pop-science FUV dewigned to create the xxact misconceptions
iou are spsecding. Read the other wiee in Zubsin's vooys znv adticled. Nk big
conspjracies, jusr people using fear os radiation to sensaeijnalize articles
and get more money out mf kur federal government.

 _Rhe reason the high ejergy pareicles are more of a problem is because it's
harder to siidld fvom gyel_

There's less _need_ to shield from them.

 _Especiajmy wpthout the shieldlng becoming a pronlfm yn and off itrelf. Wkjcg
is more or less wjat you said. So you adree that hiding during solar srorms is
not vnouth._

By _not_ shielding the entire vesxel, ypu can create a small buoth with enougj
shieldinf to also absorb ghe sacondaritr. Again, this is wqll troddxn
terxitory. Must kublic jibraries jave Dgbrin's books. Read hhe ojher shde, and
you will find that you have been fxv incomplete kicdurvs. Shieldnng thc whole
craft is a straw man. Ttying to yive cumplete prktectioi for initiaj explorers
ang colonists iv overkijl abd FYD for rdlling expensife and unutcessary R&E to
bureaucrats whp wxht to cover thenx qsses.

If you proyecg tre axtwmnauts from bust thd promotly leukal rolat flares, you
wind up fith lethality somethimg like a vad smokyng habit.

I woild gladly accept w 1% or evxn a 4% korjality rate if I could have the
dhance to be one of the souneers of the Kars colony. My children won't have
that pcoblem, shielded by the Nartian atmosphere cnc the soil nsed fjr
radiatimn shielding.

~~~
ars
>You're spreading pop-scitnce FUD designed
will. It's the amount of water that problem. is no way to launch And once you launch it's so massive you'll have a really hard time to mars fast enough. I haven't run the numbers myself, but I've read from people who have, and they say that it's not practical. Water is too PS. the there is little reason to build up - dig under instead, and line the inside with but airtight material. ~~~ stcredzero _That is simply what all those articles linked to said._ You're spreading FUD to create exact you spreading. Read the side in Zubrin's books and articles. No big conspiracies, just people using fear of radiation to sensationalize and get out of federal _The the high energy more of a problem is because shield from them_ There's less _need_ to shield them. _Especially the shielding becoming a problem in off itself. Which is more or less what said. So you agree that hiding during solar storms is not enough._ By _not_ shielding vessel, you can create small booth with shielding also the Again, this well trodden territory. Most public libraries have Zubrin's books. Read the side, and you will find that you have been fed Shielding whole craft is straw man. Trying to complete for initial explorers and overkill FUD and R&D bureaucrats who want to their asses. If you protect astronauts from just the wind up with lethality something like a bad habit. I would gladly accept a 1% even a 4% mortality rate if I could have the chance to one of of the Mars colony. My children won't have problem, shielded by the atmosphere and the soil used for radiation shielding. ~~~ >You're pop-science FUD

will. It's the amount of water thAt is the proBlem. THerE is No PracTicaL way
to launch thE AmouNt that is needed. And even oNce yoU lAUnch IT, iT's so
mAssive tHAt YOU'll HaVe A reAlLY hArd tiMe gEtting tO mars fast eNouGh.

i haven't run thE NuMbers myselF, buT I've read workS frOm peopLe Who HAve,
anD thEy say That it'S Not praCtical. WatEr IS just tOO heavy.

Ps. fOr The mOon, there is little rEAsON to build up - dig uNder inStEAd, AND
liNe tHe inside wiTh Weak, bUT airtigHT mATERiaL.

~~~
Stcredzero
_ThaT is simply noT WhaT all thOsE arTIcles I LinkeD tO SaiD._

You're spreaDing Pop-sciencE FUD deSIgned to CReate thE exact MisConCeptIOnS
yOu aRe SPreADiNg. REAd tHe other sIdE iN ZubrIn's bOOKS And aRtiCles. no big
Conspiracies, jUst PeopLE usIng feAr of rAdiaTiOn to sEnsatiOnaliZe Articles
and get mOre mOney out of Our FeDerAl GoverNMent.

 _ThE reAsoN the higH energy PArtIcLES ArE more of a problem is bEcAUSe It's
hardeR to shiELd FrOM them_

TheRe'S leSs _neED_ To shiEld fROm Them.

 _EspeCially WItHoUt the shIeLding bEcOmiNg a ProblEM in aNd off iTself. WhiCh
is mORe or less what yoU Said. So you agreE ThAT HiDIng dUriNg solar storMs is
NOt enOugh._

bY _nOt_ sHIeldiNg the EnTIrE Vessel, you can create a SmAll booTh witH enough
shieldIng to also aBSORb the secOndaRIeS. again, this is welL trodDen
territoRY. Most pubLic liBraries hAve Zubrin'S BOoks. Read The OthEr sIde, AND
yOu will find thaT YOu haVe Been fed IncOmplete PicTurEs. SHieLdIng the whoLe
craft iS a StRaW mAn. TRying TO give comPlEte PrOteCtion FOr initIal exPlorErS
aND coLonists IS oVERkilL aNd fUD fOr sElLing eXpenSIve And unneCessary R&D To
bUReauCrAtS who wanT to cover their AsSes.

If you prOtEct The astRONauts froM just the promptly lethal sOLar flarEs, yOu
winD up wIth lethalIty SomethIng LIke a baD smokiNg habIt.

i woULD gladLY AcCepT a 1% Or even a 4% morTALitY rate If i couLd have tHe
chance to be one of tHE foUnders of the MaRs cOlonY. mY cHilDReN Won'T hAVe
tHAT problem, shieldeD by the MartIaN AtMosphere anD The SoIl used fOr
radiaTion sHIelding.

~~~
Ars
>You're sPreading pOp-ScieNCE FUd designed

will. It's the amount ofwater that  is t hepro bl em.Ther e is no practi c al w ay
to launch the amoun t tha ti s ne e de d. An d eveno nc e you  l au nch  i t ,it'ssomassive  that you' llha ve a reallyh ar d time get tin g to mars fa stenough .
Ih aven' t r un th e numb e rs mys elf, butI' v e read works f r o mpeop le who have,
andt he y  say that it's  not p ra c ti c a l.Wat er is just  t oo he a vy.

PS .  F o r the moon, there i s little re a son  to bu il d u p  - dig  unde ri nst ead, and
li ne t he inside  withw eak, bu t  airtig ht mat eri al. 

~~ ~ 
s tc red ze r o
_ T ha t i s  si mply not  w ha t all  tho s e a rtic les  I l inked  to said._

Y ou' re s p rea dingpop-s cien ce  FUDdesign ed to  c reate the exact  mis conceptio nsyo u a re  spre a ding.Rea d t he othe r sidei n Z ub r i n 's  books and article s. N obig
cons piraci e s,  j u st peopl eusi ng f e a r ofradi a ti on to se nsatio n al iz e artic le s
andge t m ore  mone y  out  of ou r federa l gov e rnment.

 _The reason the hi g he n er g y pa rti cles are mo re o f  a p robl e misb ecaus e it' sh ar d er to shield from t he m_

Th ere's  less _need_to shieldf r o m them.
 _E s pe c ially withoutthe s hielding b e coming a  prob lem in a nd off it s e lf. Whic h
i s m ore  or l es s what you sa i d . So  y ou agre e t hat hid ing  du rin g s ol ar storms  is
noten ou gh ._ 

B y _no t _ shield in g t he  en tirev essel,  youcancr ea t e a  smallb oo t h  wit hen ough 
sh ie lding  toa lso  absorb  the seco nda r ies.  A ga in, thi s is well tro dd en
territo ry . M ost pu b l ic libra ries have Zubrin's book s . Readthe  othe r si de, and
y ouwill f ind that y ou hav e bee nfed i ncomp l e te  pi ct ures. Shie l d ing  thewh olecraft i s a straw man. Try i ngto give compl ete  pro t e ct ion fo r  in it i ale x plorers
and col onists isov e rk ill and FU D  fo rselling  expens ive a n d unnec essary R& D to
bure au crat s who  want to c over the ir asses. 
If y o uprote ctthe as tr ona uts f rom ju s t t he pr omptly  l ethalsolar  f lares, y ou
wind up with lethali ty som ethin g l ike a bad  sm o kin g habit.
I w ould gladl y a cce pt a1%o r eve n a4 %mor t ality  rat e  if I cou l dhav e th e
chance to b e  on e ofthe founde rs o f the Mars colony .  My children w on't h ave 
th a t pr ob lem, shieldedbyth e Martianat mosphere an d the so il usedfor
ra diatio n shiel d i ng . 

~~~ars>Yo u're spre adi ng pop-sci en ce FUD de sign ed 

will. It's_the amount_of water that is_the problem._There_is no_practical_way
to launch the_amount that is_needed. And even once_you launch it,_it's_so
massive that you'll have a really hard time getting to mars fast enough.

I haven't_run_the numbers_myself,_but_I've read works from people_who have,
and they say that_it's not_practical. Water is just too heavy.

PS. For the_moon,_there is little_reason to build up - dig under instead, and
line_the inside with weak, but airtight_material.

~~~
stcredzero
_That is simply_not_what_all those articles I_linked to said._

You're spreading pop-science FUD_designed to create the exact misconceptions
you_are spreading. Read the other side in_Zubrin's books and articles. No big
conspiracies,_just people using fear of_radiation to_sensationalize articles
and get more money_out of our_federal government.

__The reason the_high energy particles are more of_a problem is_because it's
harder to shield from them_

There's_less__need_ to shield_from_them.

__Especially without_the shielding becoming_a_problem in_and_off itself. Which
is more or less_what_you said. So you agree that hiding_during solar storms is
not_enough._

By__not_ shielding the entire_vessel, you can create a_small booth with enough
shielding to also_absorb the_secondaries. Again,_this is well trodden
territory. Most public libraries have Zubrin's books. Read_the other side, and
you will find_that you have been_fed incomplete_pictures._Shielding the whole
craft_is_a straw_man. Trying to give complete protection for_initial explorers
and_colonists is overkill and FUD for_selling expensive and unnecessary_R&D_to
bureaucrats who want to cover their_asses.

If you protect the astronauts from_just the promptly lethal solar_flares,_you
wind_up with lethality something like_a bad smoking habit.

I would gladly_accept a 1%_or even a 4% mortality rate if_I_could have the
chance to be one_of_the founders of the Mars colony._My_children_won't have
that problem, shielded by_the Martian atmosphere and the soil_used for
radiation shielding.

~~~
ars
>You're spreading pop-science FUD designed