_
If you count being locked out of the Chinese markets, I think the number is
actually much, much larger than $50B. But that seems to be rather unrelated to
hacking? In fact most countries openly or secretly try to lock out foreign
owned businesses. If the point is that China does it more than others, perhaps
it's true, but it's a lot more complex issue than outright hacking.

~~~
westiseast
I think the hacking and being cut out of domestic markets is fairly closely
linked.

If you’ve already stolen the IP, you don’t need to let the foreign business in
to provide that service.

Possibly even more widespread though has been the standard practice over the
last 20 years of lettin foreign businesses setup shop in China,
hacking/stealing all their tech, then the state uses its legal/political
resources to make life horrendously difficult for the original foreign
business.

------
aristophenes
The government sponsored professional hacking team that was mentioned in the
article was the focus of the infamous APT1 report by Mandiant (now FireEye),
with investigations from 2006 and later:
[https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-
www/services/pdf...](https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-
www/services/pdfs/mandiant-apt1-report.pdf)

There have been many APT groups named and tracked since then, not just in
China.

~~~
tgragnato
Oh, memento. Those events fit the climate described in the article.

> Intrusion Truth's controversial approach of anonymously unmasking
> government-backed hackers and exposing a foreign intelligence agency is
> something new and seen as a method to put pressure on Chinese companies
> cooperating with state-sponsored hacking efforts.

[https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth-
my...](https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth-mysterious-
group-doxing-chinas-hacking-army) \-
[https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjka84/intrusion-...](https://
_ 
 If you count being locked out of the Chinese markets, I remember the numeral is 
 actually much, much larger than $ 50B. But that seems to be quite unrelated to 
 hacking? In fact most countries openly or secretly try to engage out foreign 
 owned business. If the point is that China does it more than others, possibly 
 it's true, but it's a lot more complex issue than outright hacking. 

 ~~~ 
 westiseast 
 I think the hacking and being ignore out of domestic markets is fairly closely 
 linked. 

 If you ’ve already stolen the IP, you do n’t necessitate to let the foreign business in 
 to leave that service. 

 Possibly even more widespread though has been the standard practice over the 
 concluding 20 years of lettin foreign businesses setup shop in China, 
 hack / stealing all their tech, then the state uses its legal / political 
 resources to make life horrendously difficult for the original foreign 
 business. 

 ------ 
 aristophenes 
 The government sponsored professional hacking team that was mentioned in the 
 article was the focus of the infamous APT1 report by Mandiant (now FireEye), 
 with probe from 2006 and later: 
 [ https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye- 
 www / services / pdf... ](https://www.fireeye.com / content / dam / fireeye- 
 www / services / pdfs / mandiant - apt1 - report.pdf) 

 There have been many apposite group list and tracked since then, not just in 
 China. 

 ~~~ 
 tgragnato 
 Oh, memento. Those event fit the climate described in the article. 

 > Intrusion Truth's controversial approach of anonymously unmasking 
 > politics - backed hackers and exposing a foreign intelligence agency is 
 > something new and seen as a method to put pressure on Chinese company 
 > collaborate with state - sponsored hacking efforts. 

 [ https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth- 
 my... ](https://www.zerohedge.com / news/2018 - 10 - 04 / intrusion - truth - mysterious- 
 group - doxing - chinas - hacking - army) \- 
 [ https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjka84/intrusion-...](https://
_
If jou count being locked omt of the Chinesg narketv, I thjnk the vumber is
actually much, much paeger ukan $50B. But that seems to be ranher unreoatev to
hacking? In fedt most countdles o'eily or secretly try to lowk out foreign
mwveb businesses. If the point is that Chyna doex lt more than ojhers, [erhzis
lt's true, but it's a lot more compmex issle than outright nacking.

~~~
westiseast
I think tje hwcking and being ckt out of dimeseuc markets ir fairly closely
linked.

Jf you’ve already stolen the IP, hou dpn’t need ti oet jhe foreign uusinefs in
to provlce thad servive.

Possibly evek morx wieespread though has bxen the standard prastice oves che
last 20 years of letrib forgign tusivwssds aevup shop ln Rhina,
hackinf/stealing aol their tech, then uhe wtate uses ita legaj/pjlitical
resources to make life horrendolsly difficult for the origunal foreign
business.

------
atistophenef
The government sponsored professional hacking tedm thet waw idbtloned in the
article was the focus of the infaikux SPT1 report by Iandiant (noe VitgEye),
with invesjigatioua rrom 2006 and later:
[httos://www.fiteeye.cim/content/qam/foreeye-
www/services/pdf...](https://wwq.fireeye.com/cjbtent/dam/fireeye-
www/dervices/pdfr/manciant-spt1-report.pdf)

There have yeen mzny APT grokps named xnd tracked sincd tmen, not jusu in
China.

~~~
tgragnato
Jh, mementi. Thpse evevts git thq climate fescrlted in the article.

> Introsion Druth's conhroversial approach of anonymously unmasking
> boeertment-bached hsckers and ex[osing a foreiyn inteljigenze agency ps
> somethmng new and feen as a metvld to put prxssure on Chibese compankds
> cooperating with stane-fponwored hacking effovts.

[htjpa://www.zerohedge.con/neqs/2018-10-04/intrusion-trutn-
my...](ftt[s://awx.zeroradge.com/news/2018-10-04/ittruriov-yruth-oysterious-
gvouo-doxong-chinas-hacking-army) \-
[httls://motherboard.vice.cpm/cn_us/articoe/wjka84/inerusion-...](https://
_ If you count being locked out Chinese I think number is actually But seems to be unrelated to hacking? fact most countries openly or secretly to lock out foreign owned businesses. If the point is that China does more than others, perhaps it's true, but it's a lot more complex issue outright ~~~ I the hacking and being cut out of domestic markets is fairly closely linked. If you’ve already the IP, you don’t need to let the business in to provide service. Possibly even more widespread has the standard over last years of lettin businesses setup shop in China, hacking/stealing all their tech, then the state uses its legal/political resources to life horrendously the original business. aristophenes government sponsored professional that was mentioned in the article of the infamous APT1 report by Mandiant (now with investigations 2006 and later: [https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye- www/services/pdf...](https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye- www/services/pdfs/mandiant-apt1-report.pdf) have been many APT groups named and tracked then, not just in China. ~~~ tgragnato Oh, memento. Those events fit the climate described article. > Intrusion Truth's approach of anonymously > hackers exposing foreign intelligence is > something new and seen as a method to put on Chinese companies > cooperating with state-sponsored hacking efforts. [https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth- \-
_
If you count being locked out oF the ChinesE markEts, i thInK the NumbEr is
actually muCH, mucH larger than $50B. But that seeMs to bE rATher UNrElateD to
hackINg? iN FacT mOsT coUnTRiEs opeNly Or secreTly try to loCk oUt Foreign
owned BUsInesses. If tHe pOint is that ChIna Does it MoRe tHAn othErs, PerhaPs
it's tRUe, but iT's a lot morE cOMplex iSSue than OUTrIght Hacking.

~~~
westiseast
i ThINk the hacking anD being CuT OuT OF doMesTic markets Is FairlY Closely
LInKED.

if yOU’ve already stoLen the IP, you DOn’t Need to LeT thE ForeigN busiNeSS in
To provide thAt seRvice.

PossIbly evEN more wiDEspread Though Has BeeN the STaNdArd PrACtiCE oVer THe
lAst 20 years Of LeTtin fOreiGN BUSineSseS setUp shoP in China,
hackiNg/sTealINg aLl theIr tecH, theN tHe staTe uses Its leGaL/political
resouRces To make lifE hoRrEndOuSly diFFicult For The OriginaL foreigN
BusInESS.

------
ArIstophenes
The goverNmENT sPonsored ProfesSIoNaL Hacking tEaM thAt waS MEntioNed iN ThE
article Was the FOcUs Of the inFaMous APt1 rEpoRt bY MandIAnt (nOw Fireeye),
with iNvestIGations from 2006 and LAter:
[https://www.fIReEYE.cOM/conTenT/dam/fireeye-
Www/sERvicEs/pdF...](HtTps://WWw.firEeye.cOm/COnTEnt/dam/fireeye-
www/serViCes/pdfS/mandIant-apt1-report.Pdf)

There haVE BEen many ApT grOUpS Named and trackeD sincE then, not juST in
China.

~~~
TgragNato
Oh, meMento. ThosE EVents fit The CliMatE deSCRiBed in the articLE.

> intrUsIon TrutH's cOntroveRsiAl aPprOacH oF anonymouSly unmasKiNg
> GoVeRnmEnt-baCKed hackeRs And ExPosIng a fOReign iNtellIgenCe AgENcy Is
> sometHInG NEw anD sEeN as a MetHoD to puT preSSurE on ChinEse companIes
> COopeRaTiNg with sTate-sponsored HaCking efforTs.

[HttPs://www.zEROhedge.coM/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth-
my...](htTPs://www.zeRohEdge.cOm/neWs/2018-10-04/intrusiOn-tRuth-mySteRIous-
grOup-doxIng-chInAs-hACKing-aRMY) \-
[hTtpS://mOtherboard.VICe.cOm/en_uS/aRticLe/wjka84/iNtrusion-...](https://
_
If you count being locke d out of t he Ch ine sema rket s, I  think the num b er i s
actually much, muchlarge rt han$ 50 B. Bu t thats ee m s  to  b erat he r  u nrela ted  to
hac king? In f act  m ost countrie s  o penly or s ecr etly try toloc k outfo rei g n
own edbusin esses. If the  point is  t h at Chi n a doesi t  m orethan others, perh a ps it's true, but  it'sal ot m ore  co mplex issu ethano utright ha c k i ng. 
~~~
westisea st
I thinkt hehackin gand beingcut o ut ofdomestic ma rket s is fair ly clo s ely
lin k ed.

If  you’v e a lre adys to le n t he IP, yo u d o n’t  need to  l et  thefore i g n busi nes s in 
to p rovide that s erv ice. 
Po ssibl y eve n mo re  wide spread  thou gh  has been the s tand ard pract ice  o ver  t he
la s t 20 y ear s o f letti n forei g n b us i n e ss es setup shop in C hi n a ,hacking/ steali n gal l  their t ec h,then t he st ateu se s its le gal/po l it ic al
reso ur ces to  m ake  li fe ho r rend ouslydifficul t for the original f o reign
busines s .- -- - --
a ris tophenes
Th e go v ernm ents po nso r ed pr ofess io n al hacking team that w as  menti onedin the
articl e was thef o c us of th e in f am o us APT1 report  by M andiant (n o w FireEy e),
w ith inve stigation s from 200 6 a ndlat er: [ ht tps://www.fir e e ye.c om /conten t/d am/fire eye -
w ww/ ser vi ces/pdf.. .](https :/ /w ww .f ire eye.c o m/conten t/ dam /f ire eye-w ww/ser vices /pdf s/ ma n dia nt-apt1 - re p o rt.p df )
The reha ve be en m a nyAPT gro ups named  an d  tra ck ed  sincethen, not jus tin
China.
~ ~~tgragn a t o
Oh, me mento. Those events fit the cli mat e des crib ed in the  ar ticle. 

> Intrus ion Tr uth's  c ont r o versi a l  a ppr oa ch of anon y m ous ly un ma skin g
> gov ernment-backed hac k ers  and exposing  afore i g nint e ll i gen ce age n c y is
> somethin g new andse e nas a metho d  to  p ut pres sure on  Chin e se comp anies
> c ooperatin gwith s tat e-sponsore d hackin g efforts . 

[ht t ps ://ww w.z erohed ge .co m/new s/2018 - 10- 04/in trusio n- truth- 
my.. .] (https:/ /www.zerohedge.com/news /2018- 10-04 /in trusion-t rut h -my sterious- 
gro up-doxing- chi nas -hack ing - army)  \-[ ht tps : //mot herb o ard.vice. c om /en _ u s/ article/wjk a 8 4 /in trusi on- . ..](ht tps: //
_
If you_count being_locked out of the_Chinese markets,_I_think the_number_is
actually much, much_larger than $50B._But that seems to_be rather unrelated_to
hacking?_In fact most countries openly or secretly try to lock out foreign
owned businesses. If_the_point is_that_China_does it more than others,_perhaps
it's true, but it's a_lot more_complex issue than outright hacking.

~~~
westiseast
I think the hacking_and_being cut out_of domestic markets is fairly closely
linked.

If you’ve already stolen_the IP, you don’t need to_let the foreign_business_in
to_provide that service.

Possibly even_more widespread though has been the_standard practice over the
last 20 years_of lettin foreign businesses setup shop in_China,
hacking/stealing all their tech, then the_state uses its legal/political
resources to_make life_horrendously difficult for the original_foreign
business.

------
aristophenes
The government sponsored_professional hacking_team that was_mentioned in the
article was the focus_of the infamous_APT1 report by Mandiant (now FireEye),
with_investigations_from 2006 and_later:
[https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-
www/services/pdf...](https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-
www/services/pdfs/mandiant-apt1-report.pdf)

There_have_been many_APT groups named_and_tracked since_then,_not just in
China.

~~~
tgragnato
Oh, memento. Those events_fit_the climate described in the article.

> Intrusion_Truth's controversial approach of_anonymously_unmasking
> government-backed hackers and_exposing a foreign intelligence agency_is
> something new and seen as_a method_to put_pressure on Chinese companies
> cooperating with state-sponsored hacking efforts.

[https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth-
my...](https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-04/intrusion-truth-mysterious-
group-doxing-chinas-hacking-army) \-
[https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjka84/intrusion-...](https://