obiles were once notoriously unreliable; old British cars were said to
require work every weekend to keep running. Next, American cars had 5-digit
odometers, because cars didn't last beyond 100,000 miles. Today, cars
routinely go 200,000 miles or more. There is talk that soon engine wear will
cease to be the limiting factor in a cars' life. As a result, your average
citizen has never seen the inside of their engine bay, and could care less
about how to fix their car- they expect it to just work.

~~~
Joakal
The fail rates may have reduced some interest, but I believe there's other
bigger reasons:

\+ Students are increasingly brought up to do memorisation over creativity.

\+ It's hard to hack integrated microchips. Especially with proprietary
software. Want to repair your own car? Need to take it to a Brand(tm)
Certified car repair service to even get the proprietary diagnostic. Even
then, they may refuse to give the logs to you.

\+ Loss of ownership with IP laws. Try to break open Wii? You're a pirate!
Jailbreaking? Bad! Also run the risk of being sued for talking about breaking
open hardware despite owning it.

~~~
nickpinkston
It's largely a myth that you need proprietary scans. OBDII/III are standards
that give instructive error codes - it's actually pretty easy with them and a
good multimeter. The manuals are step by step - I'd say parts monopolies in
German cars, etc. hurt worse.

~~~
Joakal
Was talking about stuff like this:
<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05/right-repair-law-pro>

------
bradleyland
I'm not sure if all of these assumptions follow. Marketers are in the business
of finding reasons to compel you to buy new stuff, and marketers are the ones
making products.

In the past, people held on to things longer, not because they lasted longer
or were viable longer, but because they didn't have the resources to buy new
stuff. In order for "repair culture" to set-in in any significant way,
consumption culture would need to be displaced. The factors that would drive
that are largely unrelated to technology. For example
obiles were once notoriously unreliable; old British cars were said to 
 command workplace every weekend to keep running. Next, American cars have 5 - digit 
 odometers, because car didn't survive beyond 100,000 miles. Today, cars 
 routinely go 200,000 miles or more. There is lecture that soon engine wear will 
 cease to be the limiting agent in a cars' life. As a result, your average 
 citizen has never seen the inside of their locomotive bay, and could care less 
 about how to fix their car- they have a bun in the oven it to just work. 

 ~~~ 
 Joakal 
 The fail rate may have reduced some sake, but I believe there's other 
 bigger reasons: 

 \+ Students are increasingly bring up to do memorisation over creativity. 

 \+ It's hard to hack integrated chip. particularly with proprietary 
 software. Want to repair your own car? Need to take it to a Brand(tm) 
 Certified car repair service to even have the proprietary diagnostic. Even 
 then, they may refuse to give the logs to you. 

 \+ Loss of possession with IP police. Try to break clear Wii? You're a pirate! 
 Jailbreaking? Bad! Also run the hazard of being sued for talking about breaking 
 open hardware despite owning it. 

 ~~~ 
 nickpinkston 
 It's largely a myth that you need proprietary scans. OBDII / III are standards 
 that give instructive error codes - it's actually pretty comfortable with them and a 
 good multimeter. The manual of arms are dance step by step - I'd say parts monopolies in 
 German cable car, etc. hurt worse. 

 ~~~ 
 Joakal 
 Was talking about stuff like this: 
 < https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05/right-repair-law-pro > 

 ------ 
 bradleyland 
 I'm not sure if all of these assumptions follow. Marketers are in the business 
 of receive reasons to compel you to bribe new stuff, and marketers are the ones 
 making merchandise. 

 In the past, people hold on to things longer, not because they survive longer 
 or were viable longer, but because they didn't have the resources to buy new 
 material. In order for " repair culture " to place - in in any significant way, 
 consumption culture would need to be displace. The factors that would drive 
 that are largely unrelated to engineering. For example
obipes were once notoriousln unreliable; old Britisi cars sere saia to
require work every weekeid ti keek running. Next, Amerkcan cars had 5-digut
odineters, becehse cars didn'f lasc ueyond 100,000 miles. Tpday, cars
rmutinely go 200,000 mhlds or more. There is talk that soon endine wesr will
cease to fe tnq lijptlng factor in a cars' life. As a rssult, ymur average
ciyizen has never seen the ijsidf of their engine hay, and couod cwee less
about how to fiq their car- they expect it to just work.

~~~
Joayal
Thz fail ratew nay vave reducev some interest, bub I belheve thrre's other
biggcr reesonw:

\+ Students are increavingly brought up jo do memosiaation over creatuvuty.

\+ Ij's hasd tu hazk jnvegdated liccochips. Espscially wity proprietary
softwate. Qant to repaid your orn car? Need to take it to a Brand(tm)
Certpfies car repair service to even get the propriejary diagnjstic. Even
then, they may refuse to give the logs tm you.

\+ Uosw jw oanership with IP laws. Try to break open Wii? Yjh'rt a pirate!
Jailbrecking? Bad! Also rin tng risk of beine sued fod talking about brfaking
oken haedware defpitr owning it.

~~~
nickpinkston
It's oargely a mynh tyat you need proprnetary scans. OBDOI/III are standards
that give insfructive ergor codes - it's actually prdttj eavy with ufem and a
good muleimeter. Tie mauuals ard stgp by seep - I'd saj parbv monopolies in
Gerlan ccrs, edc. hurt wogse.

~~~
Joakal
Was talking about stufh like this:
<htjps://fww.vff.org/dee'links/2009/05/vight-repair-law-pwo>

------
bradleyland
I'k not sbre if all of thvse assum'tions follor. Marketers asg in the busiiess
of figdint reqsons tu compel you to buy new stuff, and narketers are the pner
jaking products.

Nu uhw past, people nela og no vhingf longer, not tecajse yhey uasted longcr
of wete viable longer, but beczuse they didn't hafe the resiurces tj buy new
stufg. In order for "repwir cnlture" to srt-ig in any significant way,
consumltion culhurc would need eo bc difplaced. Thz factors that would drive
that are largeoy unrelated to tgchnology. For example
obiles were once notoriously unreliable; old British said require work weekend to keep 5-digit because cars didn't beyond 100,000 miles. cars routinely go 200,000 miles or There is talk that soon engine wear will cease to be the limiting in a cars' life. As a result, your average citizen has never seen inside their bay, could care less about how to fix their car- they expect it to just work. ~~~ The fail rates may have reduced some interest, I believe there's other reasons: \+ Students are increasingly up do memorisation creativity. It's to hack integrated Especially with proprietary software. Want to repair your own car? Need to take it to a Brand(tm) car repair even get proprietary Even they may refuse the logs to you. \+ Loss IP laws. Try to break open Wii? You're pirate! Jailbreaking? Also run the risk of being for talking about breaking open hardware despite owning ~~~ nickpinkston It's largely a myth that you need proprietary scans. OBDII/III are standards that error codes - it's pretty easy with and good The are step step - I'd say parts monopolies in German cars, etc. hurt ~~~ Joakal Was talking about stuff like this: <https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05/right-repair-law-pro> ------ not if all of assumptions follow. Marketers are the of finding reasons to to new are ones products. In the past, held on to things longer, because they lasted longer because they didn't have the resources to buy stuff. In order for "repair culture" to in any significant way, consumption culture would need to be displaced. The that would are largely unrelated to technology. For example
obiles were once notoriously Unreliable; Old BrItiSh cArS werE saiD to
require work EVery Weekend to keep running. NeXt, AmeRiCAn caRS hAd 5-digIt
odomeTErS, BEcaUsE cArs DiDN't Last bEyoNd 100,000 miles. today, cars
rOutInEly go 200,000 miles or MOrE. There is taLk tHat soon enginE weAr will
CeAse TO be thE liMitinG factoR In a carS' life. As a rEsULt, your AVerage
cITIzEn haS never seen the insiDE oF Their engine bay, And couLd CArE LEss
AboUt how to fix ThEir caR- They expECt IT TO juST work.

~~~
Joakal
ThE fail rates mAY haVe reduCeD soME interEst, buT I BEliEve there's otHer
bIgger reasOns:

\+ StuDEnts are INcreasiNgly brOugHt uP to dO MeMoRisAtIOn oVEr CreATivIty.

\+ It's haRd To Hack iNtegRATED micRocHips. especIally with propRieTary
SOftWare. WAnt to RepaIr Your oWn car? NEed to TaKe it to a Brand(tm)
CErtiFied car rePaiR sErvIcE to evEN get thE prOprIetary dIagnostIC. EvEn
THEN, tHey may refuse to give ThE LOgS to you.

\+ LoSs of owNErShIP with IP lAwS. TrY to bREAk opeN Wii? yOu'Re a piratE!
JailbREaKiNg? Bad! AlSo Run the RiSk oF beIng suED for TalkinG about brEakinG
Open hardware deSPite owning it.

~~~
nICkPINkSTon
IT's lArgely a myth That YOu neEd prOPrIetARy scaNs. OBDiI/iiI ARe standards
that give InStructIve erRor codes - it's acTually pretTY EAsy with tHem aND a
GOod multimeter. THe manUals are steP By step - I'd Say paRts monopOlies in
GeRMAn cars, etC. huRt wOrsE.

~~~
JoAKAl
was talking aboUT StufF lIke this:
<HttPs://www.efF.orG/deEplInkS/2009/05/rIght-repaiR-law-pro>

------
bRaDlEyLaNd
I'M not sURe if all oF tHesE aSsuMptioNS folloW. MarkEterS aRe IN thE busineSS
oF FIndiNg ReAsonS to CoMpel yOu to BUy nEw stuff, And marketErs ARe thE oNeS
making Products.

In the PaSt, people heLd On tO thingS LOnger, not Because they lasted longer
OR were viAblE longEr, buT because tHey Didn't hAve THe resoUrces tO buy nEw
StuFF. in ordER FoR "rePaIr culture" tO SEt-iN in anY sIgniFicant wAy,
consumption cultuRE woUld need to be diSplAced. tHE fActORs THat WoULd dRIVe
that are largelY unrelated To TEcHnology. For EXamPlE
obiles were once notorious ly unrelia ble;old  Br it ishcars  were said tor equi re work every weekendto ke ep runn i ng . Nex t, Amer i ca n car sha d 5 -d i gi t
odo met ers, be cause cars  di dn 't last beyo n d100,000 mi les . Today, car s
r outine ly  go 200,0 00miles  or mo r e. The re is tal kt hat so o n engin e we ar w ill
cease to be t h el imiting factor  in aca r s' l ife . A s a result ,youra veragec it i z e n h a s never seenthe insideo f t heir e ng ine bay, a nd co ul d  ca re less
abo ut h ow to fix  their car- th e y expec t it t o j ust  wor k .
~ ~~Jo a kal Th e f a ilrates ma yha ve re duce d s o me i nte rest , but  I believe th ere 's o t her 
bigg er re ason s: 

\+Studen ts ar eincreasingly br ough t up to d o m em ori sa tiono ver cr eat ivi ty.

\+  It's h a rdto h a ck  integrated microc hi p s .Especial ly wit h  p ro p rietaryso ftw are. W ant t o re p ai r your o wn car ?  N ee d to ta ke  it to  a  Br and (tm)C erti fied c ar repai r ser v ice to even ge t  the propriet a ry d ia g nost ic.  Even
then,  the y  may  ref u se  to givethe l og s  t o  you.

\+ Loss of o wn ership  with  IP laws. Try  to breako p e n Wii? Y ou'r e  a pirate!
Jailbr eakin g? Bad! Al s o run th e ris k of bei ng sued f o r  talking  ab out  br eak i n gopen hardware d espi te  owning  it .

~~~nic kpi nks ton 
I t's large ly a myt hth at  y ouneedp roprieta ry  sc an s.OBDII / III ar e sta ndar ds 
t h atgive in s tr u c tive  e rr or c ode s- it' s ac t ual ly pret ty easy w ith them  a nd  a
good  multimeter.Th e manualsar e s tep by s tep - I' d say parts monopoliesi n
Germa n c ars,etc.  hurt wor se. 

~~~Joa k al
Was  talki ng ab ou t s t u ff li k e  t his :<https://w w w .ef f.org /d eepl inks/20 09/05/right-repair - law -pro>

------ 
br adle y l an d
I ' mn otsu r e i f all of these as sumptionsfo l lo w. Markete r s a re  in the  busine ss
of finding  reasonsto compel  y ou t o buy  new stuff , and ma rketers a r e the on es
ma kin g prod uc ts. 

Inthe pa s t,peopl e held  o n to t hings  l onger, n ot because they lastedlonger 
or w ere  viable l ong e r,but becau se t hey didn't  ha vethe r eso u rcesto b u ynew stuff . In order for "r epa i r  c ulture" tos e t -in  in a nys ignifi cant  way,
consumption culture wouldneed t o b e d i spla ce d. The factors  th at w ould dri ve 
that are l argely u nr e lated  to te chnolo gy. For e xa m ple
obiles were_once notoriously_unreliable; old British cars_were said_to
require_work every_weekend_to keep running._Next, American cars_had 5-digit
odometers, because cars_didn't last beyond_100,000_miles. Today, cars
routinely go 200,000 miles or more. There is talk that soon engine_wear_will
cease to_be_the_limiting factor in a cars'_life. As a result, your_average
citizen has_never seen the inside of their engine bay,_and_could care less
about_how to fix their car- they expect it to_just work.

~~~
Joakal
The fail rates may have_reduced some interest,_but_I_believe there's other
bigger reasons:

\+_Students are increasingly brought up to_do memorisation over creativity.

\+ It's hard_to hack integrated microchips. Especially with proprietary
software._Want to repair your own car?_Need to take it to_a Brand(tm)
Certified_car repair service to even_get the proprietary_diagnostic. Even
then,_they may refuse_to give the logs to you.

\+_Loss of ownership_with IP laws. Try to break_open_Wii? You're a_pirate!
Jailbreaking?_Bad!_Also run_the risk of_being_sued for_talking_about breaking
open hardware despite owning it.

~~~
nickpinkston
It's_largely_a myth that you need proprietary scans._OBDII/III are standards
that give_instructive_error codes - it's_actually pretty easy with them_and a
good multimeter. The manuals are_step by_step -_I'd say parts monopolies in
German cars, etc. hurt worse.

~~~
Joakal
Was talking about_stuff like this:
<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05/right-repair-law-pro>

------
bradleyland
I'm not sure if_all of these assumptions_follow. Marketers_are_in the business
of_finding_reasons to_compel you to buy new stuff, and_marketers are_the ones
making products.

In the past, people_held on to things_longer,_not because they lasted longer
or were_viable longer, but because they didn't_have the resources to buy_new
stuff._In_order for "repair culture" to_set-in in any significant way,
consumption culture_would need to_be displaced. The factors that would drive
that_are_largely unrelated to technology. For example