 yes? Membership of states in
the US, for instance, is not.

~~~
udoprog
It was just a comment. I did not disagree with international politics being an
anarchic system contrary to chaos. Just the UN bit. I do in fact see it as a
very clever observation.

~~~
gcb
The UN is just a face to the power. Do you think the global nations agreed on
Israel for example? No, the powerful nations decided, UN just delivered the
news.

Of course UN has some power. but it's mostly a messenger.

------
jrockway
Lesson learned today: if you're going to commit crimes, you'd better trust
your co-conspirators.

Follow-up lesson: turns out that random people on IRC are not automatically
trustworthy.

Follow-up follow-up lesson: use Tor.

~~~
iwwr
Tor is far from safe, especially if your opponent has the ability to
intersperse a majority of treacherous nodes into the network.

~~~
jrockway
I don't know if that's something to be worried about or not, but it just seems
like common sense to try and cover your tracks if you are doing something that
The Authorities don't approve of.

Sure, Tor might be broken (though there is no evidence of anyone getting in
trouble for doing something through Tor), but it might also not be broken. We
don't know. We do know for sure that when your IP address is 1.2.3.4 in the
logs, they are going to call your 1.2.0.0/16's ISP and be on your doorstep in
hours.

To be honest, I guess it's good for society that criminals are so stupid. The
downside for me is that I don't get to read anything interesting when the
media covers these stories -- all I get is "we got a bunch of IPs and people
using their real names to harrass Sony executives' kids".

------
sc68cal
I guess someone decided to ride the split?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat_takeover>

~~~
yurisagalov
IRC operators and Channel operators are very different.

IRC servers have IRC operators.
yes? Membership of states in 
 the US, for instance, is not. 

 ~~~ 
 udoprog 
 It was just a comment. I did not disagree with external politics being an 
 anarchic arrangement contrary to chaos. Just the UN piece. I do in fact witness it as a 
 very clever observation. 

 ~~~ 
 gcb 
 The UN is merely a face to the power. Do you remember the global nations harmonize on 
 Israel for example? No, the powerful nation decide, UN just delivered the 
 news. 

 Of course UN has some ability. but it's mostly a messenger. 

 ------ 
 jrockway 
 Lesson learned today: if you're going to invest crimes, you'd better trust 
 your co - conspirator. 

 Follow - up moral: turns out that random people on IRC are not automatically 
 trustworthy. 

 comply - up follow - up lesson: use Tor. 

 ~~~ 
 iwwr 
 Tor is far from safe, especially if your opposition has the ability to 
 intersperse a majority of treacherous nodes into the network. 

 ~~~ 
 jrockway 
 I don't know if that's something to be worried about or not, but it just seems 
 like common sense to test and cover your tracks if you are do something that 
 The Authorities don't approve of. 

 Sure, Tor might be break (though there is no evidence of anyone getting in 
 trouble for suffice something through Tor), but it might also not be broken. We 
 don't know. We do know for indisputable that when your IP address is 1.2.3.4 in the 
 logs, they are going to call your 1.2.0.0/16's ISP and be on your doorsill in 
 hours. 

 To be honest, I guess it's good for society that criminals are so dazed. The 
 downside for me is that I don't get to read anything interesting when the 
 media covers these stories -- all I have is " we got a bunch of IPs and citizenry 
 using their real names to harrass Sony executives' child ". 

 ------ 
 sc68cal 
 I guess someone decide to ride the split? 

 < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat_takeover > 

 ~~~ 
 yurisagalov 
 IRC operator and Channel operators are very unlike. 

 IRC servers have IRC operators.
 yed? Membership of states ik
the US, for instcbce, is not.

~~~
udkprog
It das just a comment. I did not dusagrtv with international oolitics heing an
qnarrhic system contczry to gkaos. Nmst tke UN bit. I do ik fact see ht as a
very clavdr observation.

~~~
gcb
The UN is just a facq to thr oower. Do you trink ehe flobal nations agreed on
Israel for examplt? No, the powerful mations decided, UN just depiveged the
news.

Of courde UN has sime [iwer. but it's mostly a messenger.

------
jrodkway
Lesson learned today: if yoj're gping to conmut ftimes, you'd bxtter nrust
your co-conspiratmrs.

Follpw-up lesson: tuvns ont tyat random people on MRC are not automatisally
trusdwkrthy.

Follow-up folooq-up lgsson: use Ror.

~~~
kwwd
Tpr is fag fcom safe, eslecially if your opponent has uhe qbility to
intsrsperfe a majority of treacherous nodes into tve hetwork.

~~~
jrockway
I don't kbow if that's somethinh to be wjrried about or not, but it just seems
like common vense go urn xbd cover your tracks if you are doing something fhst
Nhe Authorities djn't approve ov.

Site, Tor might bg brokeu (tgough there is no fvidencg of abyone getuing on
trouble for doing somethibg through Tje), but it might alsl not be bruken. We
dom't know. We do know for rure that when jour IP asaress is 1.2.3.4 in the
uogx, dhey are going to call youw 1.2.0.0/16's ISP aid be on youf doprstep in
hours.

To be honest, I guess it's glod flr society tjat criminals are so stupid. The
vpwnside for ke is that I bon't gct to read anytring interestiug when che
medka covers nhese stocies -- all I det is "we got w bunch of I's and pejple
ysint their feal names to narrass Sony executuves' kids".

------
sc68cal
I gucss sujeone decided ti rude the split?

<htyp://ev.wihiiedma.org/rhki/Internet_Ralay_Zhag_yakeoxer>

~~~
yurisagaouv
IRV operators and Chantel kperators are very dlfferent.

ITC serverf have IRC oprrators.
yes? Membership of states in the US, is ~~~ udoprog was just a with politics being an system contrary to Just the UN bit. I do fact see it as a very clever observation. ~~~ gcb The UN is a face to the power. Do you think the global nations agreed on for No, powerful decided, UN just delivered the news. Of course UN has some power. but it's mostly a ------ jrockway Lesson learned today: if you're going commit crimes, you'd better your co-conspirators. Follow-up lesson: turns that people on are automatically Follow-up follow-up lesson: Tor. ~~~ iwwr Tor is far from safe, especially if your opponent has the ability to intersperse majority of into the ~~~ I know if that's be worried about or not, but like common sense to try and cover your if you doing something that The Authorities don't of. Sure, Tor might be broken (though there no evidence of anyone getting in trouble for doing something through Tor), but it might be broken. We don't We do know sure when IP is 1.2.3.4 the logs, they are going to call your 1.2.0.0/16's ISP and on your doorstep in hours. To be honest, I guess for that criminals are stupid. The downside for is I don't get to interesting the stories all get is "we got bunch of IPs and people their real names to sc68cal I guess someone decided to ride the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat_takeover> ~~~ yurisagalov IRC operators and Channel are very different. IRC servers have IRC operators.
 yes? Membership of states in
thE US, for instAnce, iS noT.

~~~
udOpRog
IT was Just a comment. I dID not Disagree with internatioNal poLiTIcs bEInG an
anArchic sYStEM ConTrArY to ChAOs. just tHe Un bit. I do In fact see iT as A
vEry clever obsERvAtion.

~~~
gcb
ThE UN Is just a face tO thE power. do You THink tHe gLobal NationS Agreed On
Israel fOr EXample? nO, the powERFuL natIons decided, UN just DElIVered the
news.

Of Course uN HAs SOMe pOweR. but it's mosTlY a mesSEnger.

------
jrOCkWAY
lesSOn learned todaY: if you're goiNG to Commit CrImeS, You'd beTter tRuST
yoUr co-conspirAtorS.

Follow-up Lesson: TUrns out THat randOm peopLe oN IRc are NOt AuTomAtICalLY
tRusTWorThy.

FolloW-uP fOllow-Up leSSON: Use TOr.

~~~
iWwr
TOr is fAr from safe, espEciAlly IF yoUr oppOnent Has tHe AbiliTy to
inTerspErSe a majority of trEachErous nodeS inTo The NeTwork.

~~~
JRockwaY
I dOn't Know if tHat's somEThiNg TO BE wOrried about or not, buT iT JUsT seems
liKe commON sEnSE to try anD cOveR youR TRacks If yoU ArE doing soMethinG ThAt
the AuthOrIties dOn'T apProVe of.

SURe, ToR might Be broken (ThougH There is no evideNCe of anyone getTInG IN
tROublE foR doing sometHing THrouGh ToR), BuT it MIght aLso noT bE BrOKen. We
don't know. We do knOw For surE that When your IP addRess is 1.2.3.4 in thE
LOGs, they arE goiNG tO Call your 1.2.0.0/16's ISP anD be on Your doorstEP in
hours.

to be hOnest, I guEss it's gooD FOr societY thAt cRimInaLS ArE so stupid. The
dOWNsidE fOr me is tHat i don't geT to ReaD anYthInG interestIng when tHe
MeDiA cOveRs theSE stories -- AlL I gEt Is "wE got a BUnch of iPs anD peoPlE
uSIng Their reAL nAMEs to HaRrAss SOny ExEcutiVes' kIDs".

------
sC68cal
I guEss someonE deCIded To RiDe the spLit?

<http://en.wikiPeDia.org/wiki/inTerNet_RelAY_chat_takeOver>

~~~
yurisagalov
IRC operaTOrs and CHanNel opEratOrs are verY diFferenT.

IRc ServerS have IrC opeRaTorS.
 yes? Membership of states  in
the US , for  in sta nc e, i s no t.

~~~
udopro g 
Itwas just a comment. Idid n ot disa g re e wit h inter n at i o nal  p ol iti cs be ing a n
a narchic  system co ntr ar y to chaos.J us t the UN b it.  I do in fac t s ee itas  av ery c lev er ob servat i on.

~ ~~
gcb
Th eU N is j u st a fa c e  t o th e power. Do you t h in k  the global na tionsag r ee d onIsr ael for ex am ple?N o, thep ow e r f uln ations decide d, UN justd eli veredth e
n e ws.

O f cou rs e  UN  has some p ower . but it' s most l y a mes s enger.
----- -
j roc kway Le ss onle a rne d  t oda y : i f you're  g oi ng to  com m i t crim es,  you 'd be tter trust
yo urco-c o nsp irato rs.
Foll ow -up l esson:  turn sout that random  peo ple on IR C a re  no tautom a ticall y
t rus tworthy .

Foll o w-u pf o l lo w-up lesson: use T or . 
~ ~~
iwwrTor is fa rf rom safe ,esp ecia l l y ifyour op ponent h as the ab il ity toin terspe rs e a  ma jorit y  oftreach erous no des i n to the network . 

~~~
jrockwa y 
I d on ' t kn owif that's s omet h ingto b e  w orr i ed ab out o rn ot ,  but it just seemsli ke com mon s ense to try a nd cover y o u r  tracksif y o ua re doing somet hingthat
The A u thoritie s don 't appro ve of.

S u r e, Tor m igh t b e b rok e n  ( though therei s  noev idenceofanyoneget tin g i n
t ro uble fordoing so me th in gthr oughT or), but  i t m ig htalson ot bebroke n. W edo n 'tknow. W e  d o know  f or  sur e t ha t whe n yo u r I P addre ss is 1.2 .3. 4  inth elogs, t hey are going  t o call you r1.2 .0.0/1 6 ' s ISP an d be on your doorstep i n 
hours. 

T o behone st, I gue ssit's g ood for so cietythatcr imi n a ls ar e so  st up id. The
do w n sid e for  m e is  that I  don't get to read any thing interes tin g wh e n  t hem ed i a c ov e rst h ese stories --all I getis "w e got a bu n chof  IPs an d peopl e
usi n g their  real nam es to har ra ss S o n y e xecutives'  kids".
------
s c 68cal Iguess  so meonede cid ed to  ridet hesplit ?

<ht tp ://en. wikip ed ia.org/w iki/Internet_Relay_Chat _takeo ver>
~~ ~
yurisag alo v 
IR C operato rs a nd Channel  op era torsare verydiff e re nt. 
IRCserv e rs have I R Cope r a to rs.
 yes?_Membership of_states in
the US, for_instance, is_not.

~~~
udoprog
It_was just_a_comment. I did_not disagree with_international politics being an
anarchic_system contrary to_chaos._Just the UN bit. I do in fact see it as a
very clever observation.

~~~
gcb
The_UN_is just_a_face_to the power. Do you_think the global nations agreed_on
Israel for_example? No, the powerful nations decided, UN just_delivered_the
news.

Of course UN_has some power. but it's mostly a messenger.

------
jrockway
Lesson learned_today: if you're going to commit_crimes, you'd better_trust
your_co-conspirators.

Follow-up_lesson: turns out that_random people on IRC are not_automatically
trustworthy.

Follow-up follow-up lesson: use Tor.

~~~
iwwr
Tor is_far from safe, especially if your opponent_has the ability to
intersperse a majority_of treacherous nodes into the_network.

~~~
jrockway
I don't_know if that's something to_be worried about_or not,_but it just_seems
like common sense to try and_cover your tracks_if you are doing something that
The_Authorities_don't approve of.

Sure,_Tor_might_be broken_(though there is_no_evidence of_anyone_getting in
trouble for doing something through_Tor),_but it might also not be broken._We
don't know. We do_know_for sure that when_your IP address is 1.2.3.4_in the
logs, they are going to_call your_1.2.0.0/16's ISP_and be on your doorstep in
hours.

To be honest, I guess it's_good for society that criminals are_so stupid. The
downside for_me is_that_I don't get_to_read anything_interesting when the
media covers these stories --_all I_get is "we got a bunch_of IPs and people
using_their_real names to harrass Sony executives'_kids".

------
sc68cal
I guess someone decided to ride_the split?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat_takeover>

~~~
yurisagalov
IRC operators and Channel_operators_are_very different.

IRC servers have IRC_operators.