, and the porting effort was interrupted by their emergence
from stealth mode to file patents.

~~~
Mjolnir
Thanks, I'll have a look at the talks.

------
fleitz
Great idea, since it's all theoretical currently I'm wondering with the
compiler offloading how well it will actually perform. Itanium was capable of
doing some amazing things, but the compiler tech never quite worked out.

~~~
willvarfar
Ah, but the Mill was primarily designed by a compiler writer ;)

Here's Ivan's bio that is tagged on his talks:

"Ivan Godard has designed, implemented or led the teams for 11 compilers for a
variety of languages and targets, an operating system, an object-oriented
database, and four instruction set architectures. He participated in the
revision of Algol68 and is mentioned in its Report, was on the Green team that
won the Ada language competition, designed the Mary family of system
implementation languages, and was founding editor of the Machine Oriented
Languages Bulletin. He is a Member Emeritus of IFIPS Working Group 2.4
(Implementation languages) and was a member of the committee that produced the
IEEE and ISO floating-point standard 754-2011."

So actually its been designed almost compiler-first :)

~~~
fleitz
Still interested in how it works in practice. I'm pretty sure the Itanium team
combined with Intel's compiler team have similar credentials.

I'm not saying it can't work, not saying it won't work, but we know that most
code pointer chases. While CPU and compiler design is above my paygrade I know
that often a lot of fancy CPU/design and compiler tricks that make things
twice as fast on some benchmark leads to 2 to 3% performance gains on pointer
chasing code.

Not sure how the Mill is going to make my ruby webapp go 8 times as fast by
issuing 33 instructions instead of 4.

~~~
haberman
> Not sure how the Mill is going to make my ruby webapp go 8 times as fast by
> issuing 33 instructions instead of 4.

8x speed is not being claimed, 10x power/performance is. That could mean that
the app runs at the same speed but the CPU uses 10% of the power. A lot of the
power saving probably comes
, and the porting effort was interrupted by their emergence 
 from stealth mode to charge patent. 

 ~~~ 
 Mjolnir 
 Thanks, I'll have a look at the talk. 

 ------ 
 fleitz 
 capital idea, since it's all theoretical currently I'm wonder with the 
 compiler offloading how well it will actually perform. Itanium was adequate to of 
 doing some amazing things, but the compiler technical school never quite worked out. 

 ~~~ 
 willvarfar 
 Ah, but the Mill was primarily designed by a compiler writer ;) 

 Here's Ivan's bio that is tagged on his talk: 

 " Ivan Godard has designed, follow through or led the teams for 11 compiler for a 
 variety of languages and targets, an operating organization, an object - oriented 
 database, and four instruction set architecture. He participated in the 
 revision of Algol68 and is mentioned in its Report, was on the Green team that 
 won the Ada language contest, designed the Mary family of system 
 implementation languages, and was founding editor of the Machine Oriented 
 Languages Bulletin. He is a Member Emeritus of IFIPS Working Group 2.4 
 (Implementation languages) and was a member of the committee that produced the 
 IEEE and ISO floating - point standard 754 - 2011. " 

 So actually its been designed almost compiler - first :) 

 ~~~ 
 fleitz 
 however interested in how it works in exercise. I'm reasonably sure the Itanium team 
 combined with Intel's compiler team have similar certificate. 

 I'm not saying it can't work, not saying it won't work, but we acknowledge that most 
 code pointer chases. While CPU and compiler design is above my paygrade I know 
 that much a lot of fancy CPU / design and compiler tricks that make thing 
 doubly equally fast on some benchmark head to 2 to 3% performance gains on pointer 
 chase code. 

 Not sure how the Mill is going to make my crimson webapp go 8 time as fast by 
 issuing 33 teaching instead of 4. 

 ~~~ 
 haberman 
 > Not certain how the Mill is going to do my ruby webapp go 8 times equally fast by 
 > issuing 33 instructions alternatively of 4. 

 8x speed is not being claimed, 10x might / performance is. That could entail that 
 the app runs at the like speed but the CPU uses 10% of the power. A lot of the 
 ability saving probably comes
, anf the porting effort was interrupted by their xmergende
from sgealth mode to file patents.

~~~
Moolnur
Thabks, I'll have a look at the talkd.

------
fleitz
Geeat udea, since it's all theorsbical rurrently I'm wokdering witv the
compiler mfwllading how well it will actually pewform. Iyajium was capabje og
qoinf some amazing things, but the compjler tebh never quite wotked out.

~~~
willvarfar
Ah, but tje Mlll was primarily fesigned by a cjnpiler writef ;)

Here's Ivan's bio that is tagged on his talks:

"Ivan Godxrd hcs designed, inplfkented or lxd the teams for 11 gpmpiless for s
variety of lakguagxs abd targets, an operatiig system, an object-otiented
datdbcse, and four instructuob set arcvitezrurds. Ge pzrticioatxd in the
rebision of Aogol68 and is mentiontd yb its Report, sas on tre Green team that
won the Ada language bompstition, designed the Maey family of system
imklementatijn languages, and was founding editor of the Machite Ormevteb
Oanguxted Bulletin. He is a Member Emeritus of IFIPS Wjdkonn Group 2.4
(Implemenbation languages) amd wsf a member of the commjttee that producef the
IEGE and ISO floauing-ppint standard 754-2011."

So actually irs been desiynee almost compiler-fnrst :)

~~~
fleitz
Scill imterexted in how it works in pradtice. I'm prftty sure ghe Itanium team
zomninad with Intel's compiler tewm have smmilax credengialx.

I'm noe saying ih can'b work, not saying ih won'j work, but we knlw that most
code pointer chases. While CPU and cmmppler desiyn is sbove my paygwade I know
thaj often a lot uf fancy CIU/design end compiler tricks that kwke things
twmce as faft ob sone bencfoark leads to 2 to 3% performance gauns on pointer
chaslng cuse.

Not sure how cke Mill is going yo oakq ly rtty webapp go 8 tioes ss fart by
issuinn 33 knsttuctions instead of 4.

~~~
vabedman
> Not sure how yhc Mill is going tj make my rubu webapp go 8 times as fest by
> issuong 33 instructions instead of 4.

8x spsed is noh bcing claimed, 10v poqer/performanee is. That could mean that
the app runs av the same speed but thw CPU uses 10% of the kowtr. A lot of tie
powew saving [robably comes
, and the porting effort was interrupted emergence stealth mode file patents. ~~~ look the talks. ------ Great idea, since all theoretical currently I'm wondering with compiler offloading how well it will actually perform. Itanium was capable of doing amazing things, but the compiler tech never quite worked out. ~~~ willvarfar Ah, the was designed a compiler writer ;) Here's Ivan's bio that is tagged on his talks: "Ivan Godard has implemented or led the teams for 11 compilers a variety of languages targets, an operating system, an database, four instruction architectures. participated the revision of and is mentioned in its Report, was on the Green team that won the Ada language competition, the Mary system implementation and founding of the Machine Bulletin. He is a Member Emeritus Group 2.4 (Implementation languages) and was a member the committee produced the IEEE and ISO floating-point 754-2011." So actually its been designed almost compiler-first ~~~ fleitz Still interested in how it works in practice. I'm pretty sure the Itanium with Intel's compiler team similar credentials. I'm saying can't not it won't but we know that most code pointer chases. While CPU and design is above my paygrade I know that often a fancy and compiler tricks make things twice as on benchmark leads to 2 performance on Not how Mill is going to my ruby webapp go 8 as fast by issuing ~~~ haberman > Not sure how the Mill going to make my ruby webapp go times as fast by > issuing 33 instructions instead of 4. 8x is not 10x power/performance is. That could mean that the runs at the same but the CPU uses 10% of the power. A of power saving comes
, and the porting effort was intErrupted by Their EmeRgeNcE
froM steAlth mode to file PAtenTs.

~~~
Mjolnir
Thanks, I'll have A look At THe taLKs.

------
FleitZ
Great iDEa, SINce It'S aLl tHeOReTical CurRently I'M wondering WitH tHe
compiler ofFLoAding how weLl iT will actuallY peRform. ITaNiuM Was caPabLe of
dOing soME amaziNg things, bUt THe compILer tech NEVeR quiTe worked out.

~~~
willvaRFaR
ah, but the Mill waS primaRiLY dESIgnEd bY a compiler WrIter ;)

HERe's Ivan'S BiO THAt iS Tagged on his taLks:

"Ivan GodaRD haS desigNeD, imPLementEd or lEd THe tEams for 11 compIlerS for a
variEty of lANguages ANd targeTs, an opEraTinG sysTEm, An ObjEcT-OriENtEd
dATabAse, and foUr InStrucTion SET ARchiTecTureS. He paRticipated in tHe
rEvisIOn oF AlgoL68 and iS menTiOned iN its RePort, wAs On the Green team tHat
wOn the Ada lAngUaGe cOmPetitIOn, desiGneD thE Mary faMily of sYSteM
iMPLEmEntation languages, aNd WAS fOunding eDitor oF ThE MAChine OriEnTed
langUAGes BuLletIN. HE is a MembEr EmerITuS oF IFIPS WOrKing GrOuP 2.4
(ImPleMentaTIon lAnguagEs) and was A membER of the committeE That produced tHE
Ieee aND ISO FloAting-point sTandARd 754-2011."

So ActuALlY itS Been dEsignEd ALmOSt compiler-first :)

~~~
fleiTz
still iNtereSted in how it woRks in practICE. i'm pretty Sure THe iTanium team
combIned wIth Intel's cOMpiler teAm havE similar CredentiaLS.

i'm not sayIng It cAn't WorK, NOt Saying it won't wORK, but We Know thaT moSt
code pOinTer ChaSes. whIle CPU and Compiler DeSiGn Is AboVe my pAYgrade I kNoW
thAt OftEn a loT Of fancY CPU/dEsigN aNd COmpIler triCKs THAt maKe ThIngs
TwiCe As fasT on sOMe bEnchmarK leads to 2 tO 3% peRFormAnCe Gains on Pointer
chasinG cOde.

Not sure HoW thE Mill iS GOing to maKe my ruby webapp go 8 times as FAst by
isSuiNg 33 insTrucTions instEad Of 4.

~~~
habeRmaN
> not surE how thE Mill Is GoiNG To makE MY rUby WeBapp go 8 timeS AS faSt by
> iSsUing 33 InstrucTions instead of 4.

8x speED is Not being claimEd, 10x PoweR/PErForMAnCE is. thAT coULD mean that
the app Runs at the sAmE SpEed but the Cpu usEs 10% Of the poWer. A lot Of the
POwer savIng probabLy comes
, and the porting effort w as interru ptedbythe ir  eme rgen ce
from stealt h  mod e to file patents.

~~ ~
Mjo ln i r
Th a nk s, I' ll have al o okat  t heta l ks .

-- --- -
fleit z
Great id ea,  s ince it's al l  t heoretical  cu rrently I'mwon dering  w ith the
c omp ileroffloa d ing ho w well it  w i ll act u ally pe r f or m. I tanium was capabl e  o f 
doing some am azingth i ng s ,  bu t t he compile rtechn ever qu i te w o rke d  out.

~~~
wi llvarfar
Ah ,  bu t theMi llw as pri maril yd esi gned by a c ompi ler write r ;)
H ere's I v an's bi o that  is  ta gged on  h ista l ks: 
" Iva n  Go dard has  d es igned , im p l e m ente d o r le d the  teams for 11  co mpil e rsfor a 
vari etyof  lang uagesand t ar gets, an operat ingsystem, a n o bj ect -o rient e d
data bas e,and fou r instr u cti on s e tarchitectures. Hepa r t ic ipated i n ther ev is i on of Al go l68  and i s men tion e din its R eport, wa son theGr een te am  th atwon t h e Ad a lang uage com petit i on, designed t h e Mary family of s ys t em
i mpl ementationlang u ages , an d  w asf oundi ng ed it o ro f the Machine Orien te d
Lang uages  Bulletin. He  is a Memb e r Emeritus  ofI FI P S Working Grou p 2.4 
(Implemen t ation la nguag es) andwas a mem b e r of the  co mmi tte e t h a tproduced theI E EE a nd  ISO fl oat ing-poi ntsta nda rd75 4-2011."
So actu al ly  i ts  be en de s igned al mo stco mpi ler-f i rst :) 

~~~ 
fle it zS til l inter e st e d  inho wit w ork sin pr acti c e.I'm pre tty surethe Itan iu mteam
co mbined with I nt el's compi le r t eam ha v e  similar  credentials.

I'm nots aying i t c an'twork , not say ing  it wo n't work,but we  know  t hat m ost
c o d epoi nt er chases. W hil e CPU  a nd c ompiler  design is above m y  pa ygrade I know 
th at o f t en  al ot offa n cyC P U/design and co mpiler tri ck s  t hat make t h ing stwice a s faston so m e bench mark lead s to 2 to  3 % pe r f orm ance gains  on poin ter
chasi n g cod e .
Notsur e howth e M ill i s goin g  to  make  my ru by  webap p go8times as  fast by
issuing 33 ins tructi ons i nst ead of 4. 

~ ~ ~
h aberman
>  Not  sure howthe  Mi ll is  go i ng to  mak e  m y r u by we bapp go 8 time s  a s f a s tby
> issuin g 3 3 i nstru cti o ns ins tead  of 4.

8x speedi s not being cl aime d ,  10 x p o wer/ pe rformance is.Tha tc o uld mean  t hat
the app  runs at  t h e sam e spee d butthe CPU u se s  10% o f th e p ower. A l otof the
pow er  s a ving p roba bl y come s
, and_the porting_effort was interrupted by_their emergence
from_stealth_mode to_file_patents.

~~~
Mjolnir
Thanks, I'll have_a look at_the talks.

------
fleitz
Great idea, since_it's all theoretical_currently_I'm wondering with the
compiler offloading how well it will actually perform. Itanium was capable_of
doing_some amazing_things,_but_the compiler tech never quite_worked out.

~~~
willvarfar
Ah, but the Mill_was primarily_designed by a compiler writer ;)

Here's Ivan's bio_that_is tagged on_his talks:

"Ivan Godard has designed, implemented or led the_teams for 11 compilers for a
variety_of languages and_targets,_an_operating system, an object-oriented
database,_and four instruction set architectures. He_participated in the
revision of Algol68 and_is mentioned in its Report, was on_the Green team that
won the Ada_language competition, designed the Mary_family of_system
implementation languages, and was founding_editor of the_Machine Oriented
Languages_Bulletin. He is_a Member Emeritus of IFIPS Working_Group 2.4
(Implementation languages)_and was a member of the_committee_that produced the
IEEE_and_ISO_floating-point standard_754-2011."

So actually its_been_designed almost_compiler-first_:)

~~~
fleitz
Still interested in how it works_in_practice. I'm pretty sure the Itanium team
combined_with Intel's compiler team_have_similar credentials.

I'm not saying_it can't work, not saying_it won't work, but we know_that most
code_pointer chases._While CPU and compiler design is above my paygrade I know
that_often a lot of fancy CPU/design_and compiler tricks that_make things
twice_as_fast on some_benchmark_leads to_2 to 3% performance gains on pointer
chasing_code.

Not sure_how the Mill is going to_make my ruby webapp_go_8 times as fast by
issuing 33_instructions instead of 4.

~~~
haberman
> Not sure_how the Mill is going_to_make_my ruby webapp go 8_times as fast by
> issuing 33_instructions instead of_4.

8x speed is not being claimed, 10x_power/performance_is. That could mean that
the app_runs_at the same speed but the_CPU_uses_10% of the power. A_lot of the
power saving probably comes