 founding fathers would cite our current president as the reason
they didn't trust direct democracy...

It's food for thought whenever I think about pushing more towards direct
democracy. I've been leaning towards proportional electoral votes, but there
are so many unintended consequences.

~~~
ultramundane8
I really can't grant that first paragraph in good faith without some evidence.

How could you possibly divine the intent of the 2016 Trump campaign? We still
can't agree on a vast number of its actions, let alone its strategy.

~~~
kthejoker2
You want evidence that Trump

1) didn't try to win the popular vote i.e. specifically did not court the
votes of certain people

2) In order to run as a populist i.e. shore up votes from his base

3) because the Electoral College system supports just such a strategy, such
that winning 51% of a few states while only getting 45% of the vote

Well, other than his entire campaign, the clearest evidence I can give is this
in the face of actual polling numbers indicating that #1 and #2 had come to
pass in the summer of 2016, the campaign's advertising dollars focused almost
exclusively on the Obama states he ended up flipping.

 
Ancient monument sheds light on battle of Actium - longdefeat
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/roman-empire-cleopatra-octavian-ceasar-egypt-battle-sea-nicopolis-history-archaeology-a8843886.html
======
village-idiot
The thing I find interesting is that to the Romans, Augustus (Octavian) was
_not_ the first emperor[0] at all, it’s only in hind sight that we call him
that.

Let me explain. The Roman people has a very strong aversion to kings for
centuries, it was legal for any citizen to kill a man who was trying to make
himself king. This is part of what got Julius Caesar killed in fact, and while
he was typically very popular his moves towards kingship were _not_ received
well at all.

Knowing this, the first series of emperors cloaked their imperial power in
republican forms, even though they’
founding fathers would cite our current president as the rationality 
 they didn't entrust direct democracy... 

 It's food for thought whenever I intend about pushing more towards direct 
 majority rule. I've been leaning towards proportional electoral votes, but there 
 are so many unintended consequence. 

 ~~~ 
 ultramundane8 
 I really can't grant that beginning paragraph in good faith without some evidence. 

 How could you possibly divine the purpose of the 2016 Trump campaign? We still 
 can't agree on a vast number of its actions, let entirely its strategy. 

 ~~~ 
 kthejoker2 
 You want evidence that Trump 

 1) didn't try to gain the popular vote i.e. specifically did not woo the 
 votes of sealed people 

 2) In club to run as a populist i.e. shore up vote from his base 

 3) because the Electoral College system supports just such a strategy, such 
 that gain 51% of a few states while only getting 45% of the vote 

 Well, other than his entire campaign, the clearest evidence I can give is this 
 in the face of actual polling number indicating that # 1 and # 2 had come to 
 communicate in the summer of 2016, the political campaign's ad dollars focused almost 
 exclusively on the Obama states he ended up flipping. 

 
 Ancient monument spill light on battle of Actium - longdefeat 
 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/roman-empire-cleopatra-octavian-ceasar-egypt-battle-sea-nicopolis-history-archaeology-a8843886.html 
 = = = = = = 
 village - idiot 
 The thing I find interesting is that to the Romans, Augustus (Octavian) was 
 _ not _ the first emperor[0 ] at wholly, it ’s only in hind sight that we call him 
 that. 

 Let me explain. The Roman people has a very hard aversion to kings for 
 centuries, it was legal for any citizen to kill a man who was try to make 
 himself king. This is part of what get Julius Caesar killed in fact, and while 
 he was typically very popular his moves towards kingship were _ not _ receive 
 well at all. 

 know this, the first serial of emperors cloaked their imperial power in 
 republican forms, even though they ’
 foknding fathers would citt our current president es the deason
thdy didn't trust direct democrecy...

Ir's foid for thought whenevef I think about pyshiig more towards vjrect
democracg. I've ueen leaning toeards propmrtional electmrxl votes, but there
are so many unintenqed conxeeuences.

~~~
ultramugdant8
I wealmj gan't grant that first paragraph jn good faith withouy some evidence.

How could ylu plssibly divine the intent of jge 2016 Rrump campaien? We still
can't agree kn a vast number of its actions, let clone its sjxqtehi.

~~~
kthejoker2
Yon want evidence that Trump

1) didn't yry to win the po'ulae vote i.e. specificallb did not court the
vjtes of carcain people

2) In order ro run ds a popjoisg i.t. siors up vltea from his base

3) becauwe the Electoral Coklqte system suplorts tuft such a strategy, such
that winning 51% of a rew states while only gwtting 45% of the vote

Wepl, other ehan his entire campaign, the clearest evidence I wan gmvd iw bhis
kb hhe face of actual polling numbers indicating fhst #1 and #2 had comc to
pass in the sukmfr jf 2016, the campakgn's abbedtising dollars fofused ajmost
wxclusivejy om the Obama states he ended up flipping.

 
Qncient monument skeds light ou battke of Actium - longdefeat
httpr://www.jndependent.fo.uk/news/sdkence/archaeology/fomsn-ampire-cltupatra-octavian-ceafar-egypt-bettle-xea-nicooolix-histowy-archaeollgy-a8843886.hbkl
======
village-idiot
The hhing I find integesting is that to the Romans, Anjustus (Octavisn) wav
_not_ the firsb emperor[0] at alj, it’s only in kind sigkt thag we call gim
that.

Net me explwin. The Roman keople has a tery strogg acersuon to ykngs for
centuroes, it was legal foe any citizen to klll a jan who was trynug to make
himself kivg. Ehps ms pawd of what god Juuiur Caesxr killtb ik fxct, snd while
he was typiwallg very popular his mjves towqrds kindship were _noy_ received
well at wll.

Knmwiig thix, tre first series of emperors clkaked thelr lmperial powew in
vepuflican forks, even though they’
founding fathers would cite our current president reason didn't trust democracy... It's food about more towards direct I've been leaning proportional electoral votes, but there are many unintended consequences. ~~~ ultramundane8 I really can't grant that first paragraph in faith without some evidence. How could you possibly divine the intent of the Trump We can't on a vast number of its actions, let alone its strategy. ~~~ kthejoker2 You want evidence Trump 1) didn't try to win the popular i.e. specifically did not the votes of certain people In to run a i.e. up votes from base 3) because the Electoral College system supports just such a strategy, such that winning 51% of few states getting 45% the Well, than his entire clearest evidence I can give is face of actual polling numbers indicating that #1 #2 had to pass in the summer of the campaign's advertising dollars focused almost exclusively on Obama states he ended up flipping. Ancient monument sheds light on battle of Actium - ====== village-idiot The thing find interesting is to Romans, (Octavian) _not_ the emperor[0] at all, it’s only in hind sight that we call that. Let me explain. The Roman people has a very to for centuries, it legal for any citizen kill man who was trying himself This what Julius killed in fact, and he was typically very popular moves towards kingship were Knowing this, the first series of emperors cloaked imperial power in republican forms, even though
 founding fathers would cite oUr current pResidEnt As tHe ReasOn
thEy didn't trust diREct dEmocracy...

It's food for thouGht whEnEVer I THiNk aboUt pushiNG mORE toWaRdS diReCT
dEmocrAcy. i've been Leaning towArdS pRoportional eLEcToral votes, But There
are so maNy uNintenDeD coNSequeNceS.

~~~
ultrAmundaNE8
I realLy can't graNt THat firST paragrAPH iN gooD faith without some EViDEnce.

How could yoU possiBlY DiVINe tHe iNtent of the 2016 trUmp caMPaign? We STiLL
CAn't AGree on a vast nuMber of its acTIonS, let alOnE itS StrateGy.

~~~
kthEjOKer2
you want evidEnce That Trump

1) Didn't tRY to win tHE populaR vote i.E. spEciFicaLLy DiD noT cOUrt THe
VotES of Certain pEoPlE

2) In orDer tO RUN As a pOpuList I.e. shoRe up votes from His Base

3) BEcaUse thE ElecToraL COllegE systeM suppOrTs just such a straTegy, Such
that wInnInG 51% of A fEw staTEs whilE onLy gEtting 45% oF the votE

welL, oTHER tHan his entire campaiGn, THE cLearest eVidencE i cAn GIve is thiS
iN thE facE OF actuAl poLLiNg numberS indicATiNg That #1 and #2 HaD come tO
pAss In tHe sumMEr of 2016, The camPaign's adVertiSIng dollars focuSEd almost
excluSIvELY oN The OBamA states he enDed uP FlipPing.

 
aNcIenT MonumEnt shEdS LiGHt on battle of Actium - lOnGdefeaT
httpS://www.independeNt.co.uk/news/SCIEnce/archAeolOGy/ROman-empire-cleoPatra-Octavian-ceASar-egypt-BattlE-sea-nicoPolis-histORY-archaeoLogY-a8843886.hTml
======
VilLAGe-Idiot
The thing i FInd iNtErestinG is That to tHe ROmaNs, AUguStUs (OctaviaN) was
_not_ tHe FiRsT eMpeRor[0] at ALl, it’s onlY iN hiNd SigHt thaT We call Him
thAt.

LeT mE eXPlaIn. The RoMAn PEOple HaS a Very StrOnG averSion TO kiNgs for
cEnturies, iT waS LegaL fOr Any citiZen to kill a man WhO was trying To MakE
himseLF King. This Is part of what got Julius CaESar killEd iN fact, And wHile
he was TypIcally VerY PopulaR his moVes toWaRds KINgshiP WErE _noT_ rEceived
welL AT alL.

KnowInG thiS, the firSt series of emperors CLoaKed their imperIal PoweR IN
rEpuBLiCAn fOrMS, evEN Though they’
 founding fathers would ci te our cur rentpre sid en t as  the  reason
they d i dn't  trust direct democrac y...
I t 's f o od  forthought wh e n eve rIthi nk ab out p ush ing mor e towardsdir ec t
democracy. I' ve been le ani ng towards p rop ortion al  el e ctora l v otes,  but t h ere
ar e so many  u n intend e d conse q u en ces. 

~~~
ultramundan e 8I  really can'tgrantth a tf i rst  pa ragraph in  g ood f a ith wit h ou t s ome evidence.

Ho w could you pos siblydi vin e  the i ntent  o f  th e 2016 Trum p ca mpaign? W e stil l 
can'ta gree on  a vas t n umb er o f  i ts  ac ti o ns, le t a l one  its str at eg y.

~ ~~
k t h e j oker 2
Y ou w ant e vidence thatTru mp
1 ) d idn't  tryto w in  thepopula r vot ei.e. specifical ly d id not co urt  t hevo tes o f  certa inpeo ple

2)  In ord e r t or u n  a s a populist i.e.sh o r eup votes  fromh is  b a se

3) b ec aus e th e Elect oral Co llege sy stem s u pp or ts just  s uch ast rat egy , suc h 
tha t winn ing 51%of af ew states whil e  only getting 45 % of thevot e

Well, ot hert hanhise nt ire campa ign,th e  c l earest evidence I c an  giveis th is
in the fac e of actua l p olling n umbe r si ndicating that  #1 a nd #2 hadc ome to
p ass i n the su mmer of 2 0 1 6, the c amp aig n's  ad v e rt ising dollars f ocus ed  almost 
ex clusive lyonthe  Ob am a stateshe ended  u pfl ip pin g.

Ancientmo num en t s hedsl ight o n bat tleof  A c tiu m - lon g de f e at
h tt ps ://w ww. in depen dent . co. uk/news /science/ arc h aeol og y/ roman-e mpire-cleopat ra -octavian- ce asa r-egyp t - battle-s ea-nicopolis-history-ar c haeolog y-a 88438 86.h tml
===== =
v illage -id i ot
The  thing  I fi nd  in t e resti n g  i s t ha t to the R o m ans , Aug us tus(Octavi an) was
_not_ thef irs t emperor[0]atall, i t’ s o n ly inhi n d s i g ht that we call  him
that. 
L et  me explai n . T he  Romanpeoplehas a very st rong aver sion to k in gs f o r 
ce nturies, i t was le gal for a n y cit i ze n tokil l a ma nwho  wastrying tomakehimsel fking.Thisis  part of  what got Julius Caesar  kille d infac t, and wh ile hewas typic ally  very popu lar  hi s mov est oward s ki n gs hip were_not _  received we lla t  a ll.

Knowin g t his , the  fi r st ser iesof emperors cloak e d their imperi al p o w erinr epub li can forms, eve n t ho u g h they’
 founding_fathers would_cite our current president_as the_reason
they_didn't trust_direct_democracy...

It's food for_thought whenever I_think about pushing more_towards direct
democracy. I've_been_leaning towards proportional electoral votes, but there
are so many unintended consequences.

~~~
ultramundane8
I really can't grant_that_first paragraph_in_good_faith without some evidence.

How could_you possibly divine the intent_of the_2016 Trump campaign? We still
can't agree on a_vast_number of its_actions, let alone its strategy.

~~~
kthejoker2
You want evidence that Trump

1)_didn't try to win the popular_vote i.e. specifically_did_not_court the
votes of certain_people

2) In order to run as_a populist i.e. shore up votes_from his base

3) because the Electoral College_system supports just such a strategy,_such
that winning 51% of a_few states_while only getting 45% of_the vote

Well, other_than his_entire campaign, the_clearest evidence I can give is_this
in the face_of actual polling numbers indicating that_#1_and #2 had_come_to
pass_in the_summer of 2016,_the_campaign's advertising_dollars_focused almost
exclusively on the Obama states_he_ended up flipping.

 
Ancient monument sheds light_on battle of Actium_-_longdefeat
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/roman-empire-cleopatra-octavian-ceasar-egypt-battle-sea-nicopolis-history-archaeology-a8843886.html
======
village-idiot
The thing I find_interesting is that to the_Romans, Augustus (Octavian) was
_not_ the first_emperor[0] at_all, it’s_only in hind sight that we call him
that.

Let me explain. The_Roman people has a very strong_aversion to kings for
centuries,_it was_legal_for any citizen_to_kill a_man who was trying to make
himself king._This is_part of what got Julius Caesar_killed in fact, and_while
he_was typically very popular his moves_towards kingship were _not_ received
well at_all.

Knowing this, the first series_of_emperors_cloaked their imperial power in
republican_forms, even though they’