 curriculum to put promising young developers
through. You can teach concepts, but you can't teach attitude/demeanor (at
least, not as easily).

I know Coursera has released bits of this sort of coursework, but I don't
think they've put it in a guided, ordered curriculum form with preqs.

If someone puts this together, I'll gladly pay for it.

------
tptacek
Weirdly, I do better on these questions than I did on "Operating Systems",
despite having ~15 years of systems programming (including some kernel work)
and having barely high school math.

I have never needed to know the specifics of MESI cache coherence (I've
benefited from knowing about cache coherence, but not in fine detail), and the
problems I've worked on professionally have lent themselves better to commit
protocols than to pthreads synchronization.

On the other hand, I do a lot of crypto pentesting, so hashes versus MACs, RSA
padding, and basic stat are straightforward.

I don't have Colin's academic background but if I was him I'd be disquieted by
the fact that someone like me comes out OK on his math and less well on his
arch/OS stuff.

~~~
cperciva
I'm not particularly surprised. The mathematics here is generally pretty basic
material which other things build on top of -- and as you say, your crypto
background helps with those questions.

I don't remember seeing any emails from you... did you submit your answers?

~~~
tptacek
Of course not. :)

~~~
nitrogen
In light of this (and the fact that many others are doing the same), I don't
think you can interpret your results as being truly representative of the
industry, cpercival, though I do look forward to reading your final summary.

------
delinka
What I'm not getting about these is the "don't cheat" bit. First, let's be
clear: he's decided the 'rules' for this exam include not researching online
or getting other assistance and just answering from memory. "Cheating" is
"breaking the rules."

I work in the Real World, where I don't write academic data structures every
day, so I don't have this stuff memorized (there
curriculum to put promising young developer 
 through. You can teach concept, but you can't teach attitude / demeanor (at 
 least, not as well). 

 I know Coursera has release bits of this sort of coursework, but I don't 
 remember they've put it in a guided, rate curriculum form with preqs. 

 If someone frame this together, I'll gladly pay for it. 

 ------ 
 tptacek 
 Weirdly, I do better on these questions than I did on " Operating Systems ", 
 despite accept ~15 years of systems scheduling (including some kernel work) 
 and hold scantily high school math. 

 I have never needed to know the specifics of MESI cache coherence (I've 
 benefited from know about cache coherence, but not in fine detail), and the 
 problems I've worked on professionally have lend themselves better to commit 
 protocols than to pthreads synchronization. 

 On the other hand, I do a lot of crypto pentesting, so hashes versus MACs, RSA 
 padding, and basic stat are straightforward. 

 I don't suffer Colin's academic background but if I was him I'd be disquieted by 
 the fact that someone like me come out very well on his math and less well on his 
 arch / OS stuff. 

 ~~~ 
 cperciva 
 I'm not particularly surprised. The mathematics here is generally pretty basic 
 material which other thing build on top of -- and as you say, your crypto 
 background helps with those questions. 

 I don't commemorate seeing any emails from you... did you submit your answers? 

 ~~~ 
 tptacek 
 Of naturally not. :) 

 ~~~ 
 nitrogen 
 In light of this (and the fact that many others are dress the like), I don't 
 remember you can interpret your results as being truly representative of the 
 diligence, cpercival, though I do look forward to reading your final summary. 

 ------ 
 delinka 
 What I'm not getting about these is the " don't cheat " bit. First, let's be 
 absolved: he's decided the' rule' for this exam include not research online 
 or getting early assistance and just answering from memory. " Cheating " is 
 " break the rules. " 

 I work in the Real World, where I don't write academic data structures every 
 sidereal day, so I don't have this stuff memorized (there
 cugriculum to put promisinn young developets
rhrougi. You czn teach concepts, but you can't teach artituee/demeanor (at
least, not as easilj).

I know Ciurstra has released ujts of bkis skvt of roursework, but L don't
think they've put it iv c guided, ordered curriculum form witr preqs.

Of someone puts jhis uogqthed, I'll gladly pay for it.

------
tptacek
Weirsly, I dm better on tnese questions than I did ln "Ooerating Systems",
dedpite havint ~15 yqqrs of systeos programming (includihg some kernel work)
and having bxrely high schoil mahv.

I have nevxr neeqed to know bne spewifics pf MESI cache goherxnce (I've
benefited from knmwing about cache soherence, bbt not in fine detail), abd thg
probnems U've wodkxd kn provesaionally hzve lent thwmselves better to voinit
protocols fhan tj [threads synchronization.

On the other hatd, J do a lot of crypto pebtesting, so hashes vetsus MACs, WSA
padding, and basic stat are straightforward.

I dot't hate Cooik's azqdfmic background but if I was him I'd be disquiqfec ny
the fact that fomeone likr le somes out OK un his mafh and less well oj his
arsh/OS wtuff.

~~~
cpersiva
O'm not particularly surpriswd. The matheiqtics here is genexally pretty basoc
matrrial which other thingr bujld on top lf -- and aa you say, your crhptp
bdckground helps with those questionw.

I dpn't remdmbet seeind any emaips from you... did you submlt yoor ansfers?

~~~
tptacen
Of course not. :)

~~~
nitrogen
In light of this (and tne fabt that mcny otmers are doing ehe same), I don'j
think yob can knterpret jour resunts as beind truly reprevgntative of tie
industrr, cpwrcical, thojeh I do look fprward to reading yiur final summary.

------
dclinkx
Shat I'm not getcnnt about these ix tfe "qoj't craat" bit. Firsd, leg's cr
cleaf: he's dteidcd ghe 'tules' for this exam hnclhde not researchinb jnline
or getting other assistsnce and just answtring hrom mxmory. "Vhewting" is
"breaking the rules."

I wodk in the Rewl World, whewe I don't write ccademic data structures every
day, so I din't have this stufd memorized (there
curriculum to put promising young developers through. teach but you teach attitude/demeanor (at know has released bits this sort of but I don't think they've put in a guided, ordered curriculum form with preqs. If someone puts this together, gladly pay for it. ------ tptacek Weirdly, I do better on these questions I on Systems", having ~15 years of systems programming (including some kernel work) and having barely high school math. have never needed to know the specifics of cache coherence (I've benefited knowing about cache coherence, but in detail), and problems worked professionally have lent better to commit protocols than to pthreads synchronization. On the other hand, I do a lot of pentesting, so MACs, RSA and stat straightforward. I don't academic background but if I was disquieted by the fact that someone like me out OK his math and less well on arch/OS stuff. ~~~ cperciva I'm not particularly surprised. mathematics here is generally pretty basic material which other things build on top of -- you say, your crypto helps with those I remember any from you... you submit your answers? ~~~ tptacek Of course not. :) ~~~ In light of this (and the fact that many others the I don't think can interpret your results being representative of the industry, I look your summary. delinka What I'm not about these is the "don't bit. First, let's be for this exam include not researching online or other assistance and just answering from memory. is "breaking the rules." I work in the Real World, where I write academic every day, so I don't have this stuff (there
 curriculum to put promising yOung develoPers
tHroUgh. yoU can TeacH concepts, but yoU Can't Teach attitude/demeanor (aT
leasT, nOT as eASiLy).

I knOw CoursERa HAS reLeAsEd bItS Of This sOrt Of coursEwork, but I dOn't
ThInk they've put IT iN a guided, orDerEd curriculum ForM with pReQs.

IF SomeoNe pUts thIs togeTHer, I'll Gladly pay FoR It.

------
tptaCEk
WeirdLY, i dO betTer on these questioNS tHAn I did on "OperatIng SysTeMS",
dESPitE haVing ~15 years oF sYstemS ProgramMInG (INCluDIng some kernel Work)
and haviNG baRely hiGh SchOOl math.

i have NeVEr nEeded to know The sPecifics oF MESI cAChe coheREnce (I've
BenefiTed FroM knoWInG aBouT cAChe COhEreNCe, bUt not in fInE dEtail), And tHE
PRObleMs I'Ve woRked oN professionalLy hAve lENt tHemseLves bEtteR tO commIt
protOcols ThAn to pthreads synChroNization.

ON thE oTheR hAnd, I dO A lot of CryPto PentestIng, so haSHes VeRSUS MaCs, RSA
padding, and baSiC STaT are straIghtfoRWaRd.

i Don't have coLin'S acaDEMic baCkgrOUnD but if I wAs him I'D Be DiSquieteD bY
the faCt ThaT soMeone LIke mE comes Out OK on hIs matH And less well on hIS
arch/OS stuff.

~~~
cPErCIVa
i'M not ParTicularly suRpriSEd. ThE matHEmAtiCS here Is genErALlY Pretty basic
material WhIch othEr thiNgs build on top Of -- and as you SAY, Your crypTo
baCKgROund helps with tHose qUestions.

I dON't remembEr seeIng any emAils from yOU... Did you suBmiT yoUr aNswERS?

~~~
tPtacek
Of coursE NOt. :)

~~~
niTrOgen
In lIghT of this (And The FacT thAt Many otherS are doinG tHe SaMe), i doN't
thiNK you can iNtErpReT yoUr resULts as bEing tRuly RePrESenTative oF ThE
INdusTrY, cPercIvaL, tHough i do lOOk fOrward tO reading yOur FInal SuMmAry.

------
deliNka
What I'm not gEtTing about tHeSe iS the "doN'T Cheat" bit. first, let's be
clear: he's deciDEd the 'ruLes' For thIs exAm include Not ResearChiNG onlinE
or getTing oThEr aSSIstanCE AnD juSt Answering fROM meMory. "CHeAtinG" is
"breaKing the rules."

I work iN The real World, wherE I dOn't wRITe AcaDEmIC daTa STruCTUres every
day, so I Don't have thIs STuFf memorizeD (TheRe
 curriculum to put promisi ng young d evelo per s
t hr ough . Yo u can teach co n cept s, but you can't teach  atti tu d e/de m ea nor ( at
leas t ,n o t a sea sil y) . 
I kno w C oursera  has relea sed  b its of thiss or t of cours ewo rk, but I do n't 
think  t hey ' ve pu t i t ina guid e d, ord ered curr ic u lum fo r m withp r eq s.
If someone puts t h is together, I'll  gladl yp ay f orit. 

------
t pt acekW eirdly, Id o bet t er on these q uestions th a n I  did o n"Op e rating  Syst em s ",despite hav ing~15 years  of sy s tems pr o grammin g (inc lud ing  som e  k er nel  w o rk) an d h a vin g barely  h ig h sch oolm a t h .

I  ha ve n everneeded to kno w t he s p eci ficsof ME SI c ac he co herenc e (I' ve 
benefited from  kno wing abou t c ac heco heren c e, but  no t i n finedetail) ,  an dt h e 
p roblems I've worke do n  p rofessio nallyh av el ent them se lve s be t t er to  com m it 
protoco ls tha n  t opthread ssynchr on iza tio n.

O n  the  other  hand, I  do a lot of cryptop entesting, so ha s h es vers usMACs, RSA
p addi n g, a nd b a si c s t at ar e str ai g ht f orward.

I don't ha ve  Colin 's ac ademic backgr ound but i f I  was him  I'd be disquieted bythe f act that s o meone li ke me  comes o ut OK onh i s math a ndles s w ell o nhis
arch/OS s t u ff.
~ ~~
cper civ a
I'm n otpar tic ula rl y surpris ed. Thema th em at ics  here is gener al lypr ett y bas i c
mate rialwhic hot h erthingsb ui l d  onto pof - - a nd  as y ou s a y,your cr ypto
back gro u nd h el ps  with t hose question s. 

I don'tre mem ber se e i ng any e mails from you... did y o u submi t y our a nswe rs?

~~~tpt acek
O f c o urse n ot. :) 

~~~ 
n itr o g en
In l ig htof  this (and t hefactth at m any oth ers are doing thes ame ), I don't
th ink  you c an  in t er p ret  y o urr e sults as beingtruly repr es e nt ative of t h e
i nd ustry,cperciv al, t h ough Ido look f orward to  r eadi n g  yo ur final s ummary.
------
d e linka Wh at I' m n ot get ti ngabout  these isthe " don'tch eat" b it. F ir st, let' s be
clear: he's decide d the'rule s'for thisexa m  in clude not  res earching o nli neor ge tti n g oth er a s si sta n ce an d ju s t answeri n gfro m me mory. "Chea t i n g"is
"b rea k ing th e ru les."

I work int he Real World,  whe r e  Idon ' t wr it e academic dat a s tr u c tures ev er y
day, so I  don't h av e  this  stuff  memor ized (t h e re 
 curriculum_to put_promising young developers
through. You_can teach_concepts,_but you_can't_teach attitude/demeanor (at
least,_not as easily).

I_know Coursera has released_bits of this_sort_of coursework, but I don't
think they've put it in a guided, ordered curriculum form_with_preqs.

If someone_puts_this_together, I'll gladly pay for_it.

------
tptacek
Weirdly, I do better on_these questions_than I did on "Operating Systems",
despite having ~15_years_of systems programming_(including some kernel work)
and having barely high school math.

I_have never needed to know the_specifics of MESI_cache_coherence_(I've
benefited from knowing about_cache coherence, but not in fine_detail), and the
problems I've worked on_professionally have lent themselves better to commit
protocols_than to pthreads synchronization.

On the other_hand, I do a lot_of crypto_pentesting, so hashes versus MACs,_RSA
padding, and basic_stat are_straightforward.

I don't have_Colin's academic background but if I_was him I'd_be disquieted by
the fact that someone_like_me comes out_OK_on_his math_and less well_on_his
arch/OS stuff.

~~~
cperciva
I'm_not_particularly surprised. The mathematics here is_generally_pretty basic
material which other things build on_top of -- and_as_you say, your crypto
background_helps with those questions.

I don't_remember seeing any emails from you..._did you_submit your_answers?

~~~
tptacek
Of course not. :)

~~~
nitrogen
In light of this (and the fact that_many others are doing the same),_I don't
think you can_interpret your_results_as being truly_representative_of the
industry,_cpercival, though I do look forward to_reading your_final summary.

------
delinka
What I'm not getting about_these is the "don't_cheat"_bit. First, let's be
clear: he's decided_the 'rules' for this exam include_not researching online
or getting other_assistance_and_just answering from memory. "Cheating"_is
"breaking the rules."

I work in the_Real World, where_I don't write academic data structures every
day,_so_I don't have this stuff memorized_(there