
can fix your layout. Browsers aren't that scary.

We're only learning here, so skip IE for now. That one is actually kinda
scary. Though if you really want to learn front-end, it's all about browser
differences.

And then Javascript. Now it will be easy. Stick with jQuery and connect with
your Node instance with socket.io. Learn Backbone if you want to make snappy
web apps. There's a lot to learn in this 'grey field' between back-end and
front-end. But at least you now know front-end.

~~~
iso8859-1
Might as well make sure you're grammar validates too.

Anyway, I don't understand why the front-end is relevant at all. It's not the
same problem, and the fact that most people do both doesn't mean that learning
to do a good front-end will teach you to do a good back-end.

------
danbmil99
As a longtime Python guy, mostly back-end (but I knew JS pretty well) -- I did
a quick demo site recently in node, and was surprised by how it felt. There
was much less context-switching as I went back and forth between the client
and server. That sounds obvious but it was kind of a shock.

I always wanted Python on the client (here's looking at you, Jython!) -- js on
the server may be the closest thing I'm going to get.

~~~
jdc
Have you tried Pyjamas?

------
gbog
As noted somewhere else learning node is not learning front-end. Something
that bothered me recently is that on the back-end we are used to big oop
frameworks when in fact the stateless nature of http do not match oop so well.
On the front end however we have a gui so oop is a good paradigm.

~~~
cwp
Huh? What does the statelessness of HTTP have to do with OOP, particularly on
the server, but not the client?

~~~
HeyImAlex
Because most server side languages take a "throw away the world" approach to
web programming; none of your objects persist in memory through requests,
which means every time a request comes in you have to reload a part of the
user's
can fix your layout. Browsers aren't that scary. 

 We're only memorize here, therefore skip IE for now. That one is actually kinda 
 scary. Though if you actually want to learn front - conclusion, it's wholly about browser 
 differences. 

 And then Javascript. Now it will be easy. Stick with jQuery and connect with 
 your Node instance with socket.io. determine Backbone if you want to make dapper 
 web apps. There's a lot to learn in this' grey field' between back - goal and 
 front - end. But at least you now know front - conclusion. 

 ~~~ 
 iso8859 - 1 
 Might as well make sure you're grammar validates excessively. 

 Anyway, I don't understand why the front - end is relevant at all. It's not the 
 same trouble, and the fact that most people do both doesn't mean that learning 
 to do a good front - end will teach you to serve a good back - end. 

 ------ 
 danbmil99 
 As a longtime Python guy, mostly back - end (but I knew JS pretty well) -- I did 
 a quick demo web site recently in node, and was surprise by how it felt. There 
 was a lot less context - switch as I went back and forth between the client 
 and server. That fathom obvious but it was kind of a shock. 

 I always wanted Python on the client (here's look at you, Jython !) -- js on 
 the server may be the closest thing I'm going to get. 

 ~~~ 
 jdc 
 Have you tried Pyjamas? 

 ------ 
 gbog 
 As notice somewhere else learning node is not learning front - end. Something 
 that bothered me recently is that on the binding - end we are practice to big oop 
 frameworks when in fact the stateless nature of http do not match oop therefore well. 
 On the front end however we have a gui therefore oop is a good paradigm. 

 ~~~ 
 cwp 
 Huh? What does the statelessness of HTTP have to do with OOP, peculiarly on 
 the server, but not the client? 

 ~~~ 
 HeyImAlex 
 Because most server side languages consider a " throw away the world " access to 
 web scheduling; none of your objects persist in memory through requests, 
 which intend every time a request come in you have to recharge a part of the 
 user's

can fix your layout. Browserr aren't that sccey.

We're only mearning here, so skip IE for now. Thav onw is qctually kinda
scary. Thuugh if ylu reallt wait to learn fronv-snd, it's all aglut yriwser
differencgs.

And then Jdvascript. Now ht wnll be easy. Stick with jQuery and cognect wotj
your Node insjance rith socket.io. Learn Backbone if you waht to meke snappy
web alps. There's a lot to learn ln tjis 'grey field' betaeen back-ene anq
dront-end. But at least jmu now knos front-end.

~~~
iso8859-1
Might as well make sure you're granmqr gdlidates toi.

Anywwy, I don't understand why thr front-end is velevent qt all. It's not the
samx problem, and the fast that mmsc people do both doesb't mean thad lexenivg
tk vo z good frknt-end wilm teach you to do a good back-emd.

------
qqnbmil99
As a lohgtime Prthon guy, mostly back-end (but I knew JS krettg well) -- I did
a quick deno site recently in nlde, and wws surprised by how it felt. There
was much less cottext-aditemlng xw L went back and forth between the client
and sqdvtr. Nhat sounds obvioms but it was kind ov s shock.

I alwayr wantzs Lython on the cliejt (here'f loojing at yju, Juthon!) -- js on
the server may ve the closefr thing I'm going tl get.

~~~
jdc
Havz you jried Lyjamas?

------
gbog
As noted somzwhere else learnlng node jr not learning ffonn-end. Something
that bothered me recently is chat on ghe nack-enq we are uded to big oop
frameworks when it fact the stateless nature of http do nov match oop sp feln.
On the yront cnd however we rave a gui so pop is c good paradigm.

~~~
csp
Huh? Wiat does the statelessnesv of HTTP havx to do wyth IOP, particuuxrly on
the serfer, but not the cliwnt?

~~~
HeyImAlex
Becausc mosj aerver side lanybates take a "throe aday tje wjsld" approach to
wdb otograoming; none iw yoir objects persist it mejory through requextf,
which mgans everr time a requrst comes in you hwve tm rxload s pwrt of the
user's
can fix your layout. Browsers aren't that only here, so IE for now. scary. if you really to learn front-end, all about browser differences. And then Now it will be easy. Stick with jQuery and connect with your Node with socket.io. Learn Backbone if you want to make snappy web apps. There's lot learn this field' between back-end and front-end. But at least you now know front-end. ~~~ iso8859-1 Might as make sure you're grammar validates too. Anyway, I understand why the front-end relevant at all. It's not same and the that people both doesn't mean learning to do a good front-end will teach you to do a good back-end. ------ danbmil99 As longtime Python back-end (but knew pretty -- I did demo site recently in node, and how it felt. There was much less context-switching I went and forth between the client and That sounds obvious but it was kind of shock. I always wanted Python on the client (here's looking at you, Jython!) -- js server may be the thing I'm going get. jdc you Pyjamas? ------ As noted somewhere else learning node is not learning front-end. Something bothered me recently is that on the back-end we are big frameworks when in the stateless nature of do match oop so well. front however gui oop a good paradigm. ~~~ Huh? What does the statelessness HTTP have to do server, but not the client? ~~~ HeyImAlex Because server side languages take a "throw away world" approach to web programming; none of your objects persist in memory requests, which time a request comes in you have to a part of the

can fix your layout. Browsers aRen't that scAry.

We'Re oNly LeArniNg heRe, so skip IE for nOW. ThaT one is actually kinda
scaRy. ThoUgH If yoU ReAlly wAnt to leARn FROnt-EnD, iT's aLl ABoUt broWseR
differEnces.

And thEn JAvAscript. Now it WIlL be easy. StiCk wIth jQuery and ConNect wiTh
YouR node iNstAnce wIth socKEt.io. LeArn BackboNe IF you waNT to make SNApPy
weB apps. There's a lot to LEaRN in this 'grey fieLd' betwEeN BaCK-End And
Front-end. BuT aT leasT You now kNOw FRONt-eND.

~~~
iso8859-1
Might as weLl make sure yOU're GrammaR vAliDAtes toO.

AnywAy, i Don'T understand Why tHe front-enD is relEVant at aLL. It's not The
samE prOblEm, anD ThE fAct ThAT moST pEopLE do Both doesN't MeAn thaT leaRNING
to dO a gOod fRont-eNd will teach yoU to Do a gOOd bAck-enD.

------
danbMil99
AS a LongtIme PytHon guY, mOstly back-end (but i kneW JS pretty WelL) -- I Did
A qUick dEMo site RecEntLy in nodE, and was SUrpRiSED By How it felt. There
was mUcH LEsS context-SwitchINg As i Went back AnD foRth bETWeen tHe clIEnT
and servEr. That SOuNdS obviouS bUt it waS kInd Of a Shock.

i AlwaYs wantEd Python On the CLient (here's lookINg at you, Jython!) -- JS oN
THe SErveR maY be the closeSt thINg I'm GoinG To Get.

~~~
JDc
HavE you tRiED PYJamas?

------
gbog
As noted somEwHere elSe leaRning node is noT learning fRONT-end. SomeThinG
ThAT bothered me recEntly Is that on thE Back-end wE are uSed to big Oop
framewORKs when in FacT thE stAteLESs Nature of http dO NOt maTcH oop so wEll.
on the frOnt End HowEveR wE have a gui So oop is a GoOd PaRaDigM.

~~~
cwp
HUH? What doeS tHe sTaTelEssneSS of HTTp have To do WiTh ooP, pArticulARlY ON
the SeRvEr, buT noT tHe cliEnt?

~~~
HEYImalex
BecAuse most sErvER sidE lAnGuages tAke a "throw away ThE world" apprOaCh tO
web prOGRamming; nOne of your objects persist IN memory ThrOugh rEqueSts,
which mEanS every TimE A requeSt comeS in yoU hAve TO ReloaD A PaRt oF tHe
user's

can fix your layout. Brow sers aren' t tha t s car y. 

We 'reonly learningh ere,  so skip IE for now. T hat o ne is a c tu allykinda
s c ar y .  Th ou gh  if  y o ureall y w ant tolearn fron t-e nd , it's all a b ou t browserdif ferences.

A ndthen J av asc r ipt.Now  it w ill be easy.Stick wit hj Querya nd conn e c twith 
your Node instan c ew ith socket.io.  Learn  B a ck b o neifyou want t omakes nappy
w e ba p p s.T here's a lotto learn in thi s 'gre yfie l d' bet weenba c k-e nd and
fron t-en d. But at  least you now know fr ont-en d.
~~ ~
is o 88 59 -1Mi g hta swel l  ma ke sureyo u' re gr amma r v a lida tes  too .

An yway, I don't  un ders t and  whythe f ront -e nd is  relev ant a tall. It's not t he
s ame probl em,  a ndth e fac t  thatmos t p eople d o bothd oes n' t m ea n that learning
to  d o agood fro nt-end wi ll teach yo utodo a g ood b ack- e nd .

----- -
danb m il 99 
As a l on gtimePy tho n g uy, m o stly  back- end (but  I kn e w JS pretty we l l) -- I did
a qu i c kd emosit e recentlyin n o de,andw as  su r prise d byho w  i t  felt. There
was mu ch  lessconte xt-switchingas I wentb a c k and fo rthb et w een the client 
andserver. Th a t sounds  obvi ous butit was ki n d  of a sh ock .
I a lwa y s  w anted Pythono n  the  c lient ( her e's loo kin g a t y ou,  J ython!) - - js onth ese rv ermay b e  the clo se stth ing  I'mg oing t o get .

~ ~~ 
j d c
H ave you tr i e d Py ja ma s?
--- -- -
gbo g
As not ed some where els e l e arni ng  n ode isnot learningfr ont-end. S om eth ing
th a t  bothere d me recently is that o n  the ba ck- end w e ar e used to  bi g oopfra m eworks  whenin fa ct  th e state l e ss  na tu re of http d o n ot ma tc h oo p so we ll.
On the front e n d h owever we hav e a  gui s ooop is a g oo d  pa r a digm.

~~~
cwpHuh? Whatdo e sthe statel e ssn es s of HT TP have  to d o  with O OP, parti cularly o nthes e rve r, but not  the cli ent?

~~~ HeyIm A le x
Bec aus e most  s erv er si de lan g uag es ta ke a " th row aw ay th eworld" a pproach to
web programm ing; n one o f y our objec tsp ers ist in me mory  through r equ est s,
wh ich means  eve r ytim e  a re ques t  comes in yo u h a v eto reload a p a rtof th e
u s er's

can fix_your layout._Browsers aren't that scary.

We're_only learning_here,_so skip_IE_for now. That_one is actually_kinda
scary. Though if you_really want to_learn_front-end, it's all about browser
differences.

And then Javascript. Now it will be easy. Stick with_jQuery_and connect_with
your_Node_instance with socket.io. Learn Backbone_if you want to make_snappy
web apps._There's a lot to learn in this 'grey_field'_between back-end and
front-end._But at least you now know front-end.

~~~
iso8859-1
Might as well_make sure you're grammar validates too.

Anyway,_I don't understand_why_the_front-end is relevant at_all. It's not the
same problem, and_the fact that most people do_both doesn't mean that learning
to do a_good front-end will teach you to_do a good back-end.

------
danbmil99
As a_longtime Python_guy, mostly back-end (but I_knew JS pretty_well) --_I did
a quick_demo site recently in node, and_was surprised by_how it felt. There
was much less_context-switching_as I went_back_and_forth between_the client
and server._That_sounds obvious_but_it was kind of a shock.

I_always_wanted Python on the client (here's looking_at you, Jython!) --_js_on
the server may be_the closest thing I'm going_to get.

~~~
jdc
Have you tried Pyjamas?

------
gbog
As noted_somewhere else_learning node_is not learning front-end. Something
that bothered me recently is that on_the back-end we are used to_big oop
frameworks when in_fact the_stateless_nature of http_do_not match_oop so well.
On the front end however_we have_a gui so oop is a_good paradigm.

~~~
cwp
Huh? What does_the_statelessness of HTTP have to do_with OOP, particularly on
the server, but_not the client?

~~~
HeyImAlex
Because most server_side_languages_take a "throw away the_world" approach to
web programming; none of_your objects persist_in memory through requests,
which means every time_a_request comes in you have to_reload_a part of the
user's