ulator, so each shell
command (that needs it) gets it's own pty. I think this will enable a much
nicer UI and also simplify things.

~~~
opk
This is what tmux is for.

~~~
Ericson2314
No this is _not_ what tmux is fore. IMO tmux and screens are giant hacks:

\- multiplexing: better to use ssh multiplexing, which is just nice in general

\- persistence: Yes, you want to open a pty on a the host, but you should
actually emulate the terminal on the guest: one should just forward all the
pty messages between the guest and host (graphical emlator). In other words, a
lot more like regular ssh

\- sharing: graphical emulators should just understand that multiple can be
hooked up, have some support for this, we can relay the input from one
emulator to the others as needed.

For my terminal-inside-shell, I would use a customer server + protocol for
managing all the ptys (remember because backgrounded commands there can be
multiple).

------
stared
I am waiting for GPT-2-based models for ZSH. Something in the line of TabNine,
but for the terminal.

------
enriquto
I do not like this feature. How can you distinguish the output of a program
that outputs a newline from one that doesn't? This is intentional obfuscation.
If you are bothered from where your prompt starts, add a newline at the
beginning of your prompt.

~~~
Rogach
There is a "missing linefeed indicator" symbol (usually %) that is output if
there is no trailing newline.

So the output of the program that outputs a newline looks like:

    
    
      $ program
      output
      $
    

And output of the program without trailing newline:

    
    
      $ program
      output%
      $
    

There is an issue if the program is expected to output "%" at the end, of
course.

------
amelius
> Contrary to popular belief, the shell does not sit between programs and the
> terminal.

Perhaps it should?

~~~
soraminazuki
For better
ulator, so each shell 
 command (that needs it) get it's own pty. I remember this will enable a much 
 nicer UI and also simplify things. 

 ~~~ 
 opk 
 This is what tmux is for. 

 ~~~ 
 Ericson2314 
 No this is _ not _ what tmux is bow. IMO tmux and screens are giant hacks: 

 \- multiplexing: good to use ssh multiplexing, which is just decent in general 

 \- persistence: Yes, you desire to open a pty on a the host, but you should 
 actually emulate the terminal on the guest: one should barely forward all the 
 pty messages between the guest and host (graphical emlator). In early words, a 
 lot more like regular ssh 

 \- communion: graphical emulators should just understand that multiple can be 
 hooked up, experience some support for this, we can relay the input from one 
 emulator to the others as needed. 

 For my terminal - inside - carapace, I would use a customer server + protocol for 
 managing all the ptys (remember because backgrounded commands there can be 
 multiple). 

 ------ 
 stared 
 I am waiting for GPT-2 - based models for ZSH. Something in the line of TabNine, 
 but for the terminal. 

 ------ 
 enriquto 
 I do not like this feature. How can you distinguish the output of a program 
 that output a newline from one that actn't? This is intentional mystification. 
 If you are trouble from where your prompt starts, add a newline at the 
 beginning of your prompt. 

 ~~~ 
 Rogach 
 There is a " miss linefeed indicator " symbol (usually %) that is output if 
 there is no trail newline. 

 So the output of the program that outputs a newline look like: 

    
    
       $ program 
       output 
       $ 
    

 And output of the program without trailing newline: 

    
    
       $ program 
       output% 
       $ 
    

 There cost an issue if the program is expected to output "% " at the end, of 
 course. 

 ------ 
 amelius 
 > adverse to popular belief, the shell does not sit between programs and the 
 > terminal. 

 Perhaps it should? 

 ~~~ 
 soraminazuki 
 For better
ulahor, so each shell
command (that needs it) ywts it'v own lty. I thknk this will enable a much
nmcer UI abd also simplify thingr.

~~~
opk
This ps what tnux ms for.

~~~
Ericson2314
No vgis is _kjt_ wgwt tknx is fore. IMO jmux and scraens are giant hxcns:

\- multiplexing: better to use ssh mtltiplecijg, which is juft npcq in general

\- persistence: Yes, you want fo open a pty on a tne host, but you should
actuwlly emulate the termijal on the tuese: one should gust forwagb all the
pti messages between the guest and host (graphical enlahmr). In other wordf, a
lot more like regglar ssn

\- sharing: grapmical emylators should just uiderstand that multikle can be
vokked up, have some sypporj for thir, we cah celzy the in'ut from ons
emulator ti the others as neeceq.

Dor my terminzl-insiqe-fhell, I would use a customer server + prmtodol for
managing all the ptys (remember becausg backgrougded commands there can be
multiple).

------
stared
I am waithng fkf GKT-2-nwrwd models for ZSH. Something in the line of TabNyhe,
nun for the terminaj.

------
enriquto
I co npj like this fexture. Kkw can you distinguidh the jutpur of a prjgrak
that outputs a newline fron one that djwsn't? This is intencional obfuseation.
Of yoi are bothered from whexe youd prompt stwrts, add z newline at the
bdgiknitg of your prompt.

~~~
Rogach
Thewe is a "mmssiny linefedd imdicatjr" symbol (ksually %) that is output lf
thete is to trailinh newline.

So the output of the pcpgram that ootpgts a newliue lools like:

    
    
      $ progrcm
      jutpug
      $
    

And ouvput of the [rogram withogj trailing nexline:

    
    
      $ progfxm
      output%
      $
    

There is qn issue if the prpgrxj is expected ti oorput "%" at the emd, uf
cjugse.

------
emelitv
> Contrary tm pooulxt belkef, the sheou dors not sit between psogrzms and the
> terminsl.

Ierhaps ij should?

~~~
sjraminazuki
Fot better
ulator, so each shell command (that needs it's pty. I this will enable also things. ~~~ opk is what tmux for. ~~~ Ericson2314 No this is what tmux is fore. IMO tmux and screens are giant hacks: \- multiplexing: to use ssh multiplexing, which is just nice in general \- persistence: Yes, want open pty a the host, but you should actually emulate the terminal on the guest: one should just all the pty messages between the guest and (graphical emlator). In other a lot more like regular \- graphical emulators just that can be hooked have some support for this, we can relay the input from one emulator to the others as For my would use customer + for managing all (remember because backgrounded commands there can stared I am waiting for GPT-2-based models for Something in line of TabNine, but for the ------ enriquto I do not like this feature. can you distinguish the output of a program that outputs a newline from one that is intentional obfuscation. If are bothered from your starts, a at the of your prompt. ~~~ Rogach There is a "missing linefeed indicator" (usually %) that is output if there is no trailing the of the program outputs a newline looks $ output $ And output program trailing output% There an issue if the is expected to output "%" the end, of course. popular belief, the shell does not sit between and the > terminal. Perhaps it should? soraminazuki For better
ulator, so each shell
command (tHat needs it) Gets iT's oWn pTy. i thiNk thIs will enable a mUCh
niCer UI and also simplify thIngs.

~~~
oPk
tHis iS WhAt tmuX is for.

~~~
ERIcSON2314
No ThIs Is _nOt_ WHaT tmux Is fOre. IMO tMux and screEns ArE giant hacks:

\- mULtIplexing: beTteR to use ssh mulTipLexing, WhIch IS just NicE in geNeral

\- pERsisteNce: Yes, you WaNT to opeN A pty on a THE hOst, bUt you should
actualLY eMUlate the terminAl on thE gUEsT: ONe sHouLd just forwArD all tHE
pty mesSAgES BEtwEEn the guest and Host (graphicAL emLator). IN oTheR Words, a
Lot moRe LIke Regular ssh

\- sHariNg: graphicAl emulATors shoULd just uNderstAnd ThaT mulTIpLe Can Be
HOokED uP, haVE soMe supporT fOr This, wE can RELAY the InpUt frOm one
Emulator to the OthErs aS NeeDed.

FoR my teRminAl-InsidE-shell, i woulD uSe a customer servEr + prOtocol for
ManAgIng AlL the pTYs (remeMbeR beCause baCkgrounDEd cOmMANDs There can be
multiple).

------
StAREd
i am waitiNg for Gpt-2-bAsED models fOr zSH. someTHIng in The lINe Of TabNinE,
but foR ThE tErminal.

------
EnRiquto
i dO noT liKe thiS FeatUre. How Can you diStingUIsh the output of A Program
that ouTPuTS A nEWlinE frOm one that doEsn't? tHis iS intENtIonAL obfuScatiOn.
iF yOU are bothered from wheRe Your prOmpt sTarts, add a newlIne at the
beGINNing of yoUr prOMpT.

~~~
rogach
There is a "MissiNg linefeed INdicator" SymboL (usually %) That is outPUT if
there Is nO trAilIng NEWlIne.

So the outpuT OF the PrOgram thAt oUtputs a NewLinE loOks LiKe:

    
    
      $ program
      Output
      $
    

AnD oUtPuT oF thE progRAm withouT tRaiLiNg nEwlinE:

    
    
      $ PrograM
      outpUt%
      $
    

ThErE iS An iSsue if tHE pROGram Is ExPectEd tO oUtput "%" At thE End, Of
coursE.

------
amelius
> COntRAry tO pOpUlar belIef, the shell doEs Not sit betwEeN prOgrams AND the
> termInal.

Perhaps it should?

~~~
soraMInazuki
for BetteR
ulator, so each shell
comm and (thatneeds  it ) g et s it 's o wn pty. I thin k  thi s will enable a much
n icerUI anda ls o sim plify t h in g s .
~~ ~opk 
T h is  is w hat  tmux i s for.

~~ ~
E ri cson2314
Not hi s is _not_  wh at tmux is f ore . IMOtm uxa nd sc ree ns ar e gian t  hacks :

\- mul ti p lexing :  better t ousessh multiplexing, wh i ch is just nic e in g en e ra l 
\-  pe rsistence:  Y es, y o u wantt oo p e n a pty on a thehost, but y o u s houldac tua l ly emu lateth e  te rminal on t he g uest: one  shoul d  just f o rward a ll the 
pt y m essa g es  b etw ee n  th e  g ues t  an d host ( gr ap hical  eml a t o r ). I n o ther  word s, a
lot more  li ke r e gul ar ss h

\-  sha ri ng: g raphic al em ul ators should ju st u nderstand  th at  mu lt iplec an behoo ked  up, ha ve some sup po r t fo r this, we can rel ay t he  input f rom on e 
e mu l ator toth e o ther s as ne eded . 
For my t ermina l -i ns ide-she ll , I wo ul d u sea cus t omer  serve r + prot ocolf or
managing al l  the ptys (re m em b e rb ecau sebackgrounde d co m mand s th e re  ca n  be
m ultip le ) .------
stared
I amwa itingfor G PT-2-based mo dels for Z S H .  Somethi ng i n  t h e line of TabN ine,but for th e  termina l.

- -----
en riquto
Id o  not lik e t his  fe atu r e .How can you d i s ting ui sh theout put ofa p rog ram 
th at  outputsa newlin efr om  o nethatd oesn't?Th isis  in tenti o nal ob fusca tion .If you  are bo t he r e d fr om  w here  yo ur  prom pt s t art s, adda newline  at thebe gi nning o f your prompt .
~~~
Rogac hThe re isa "missing  linefeed indicator" sy m bol (us ual ly %)  tha t is outp utif
the rei s no t railin g new li ne. So th e ou tpu tof the pro g r amthatou tput s a new line looks like:
  
    
      $  pr ogra m    ou t put 
  $ 
    

And outp ut of thepr o gr am without tra il ing new line:
       
     $ prog ram
     o utpu t % 
     $
   

Thereis an iss u e ift he  prog ram  is ex pe cte d tooutput "%"  at t he end ,of
cou rse.
- -----
am elius
> Contrary to pop ular b elief , t he shelldoe s  no t sit bet ween  programsand  th e
> t erm i nal.
Per h ap s i t  shou ld?~~~
soram i na zuk i Fo r better
ulator, so_each shell
command_(that needs it) gets_it's own_pty._I think_this_will enable a_much
nicer UI and_also simplify things.

~~~
opk
This is_what tmux is_for.

~~~
Ericson2314
No_this is _not_ what tmux is fore. IMO tmux and screens are giant hacks:

\-_multiplexing:_better to_use_ssh_multiplexing, which is just nice_in general

\- persistence: Yes, you_want to_open a pty on a the host, but_you_should
actually emulate the_terminal on the guest: one should just forward all_the
pty messages between the guest and_host (graphical emlator)._In_other_words, a
lot more like_regular ssh

\- sharing: graphical emulators should_just understand that multiple can be
hooked_up, have some support for this, we_can relay the input from one
emulator_to the others as needed.

For_my terminal-inside-shell,_I would use a customer_server + protocol_for
managing all_the ptys (remember_because backgrounded commands there can be
multiple).

------
stared
I_am waiting for_GPT-2-based models for ZSH. Something in_the_line of TabNine,
but_for_the_terminal.

------
enriquto
I do_not like this_feature._How can_you_distinguish the output of a program
that_outputs_a newline from one that doesn't? This_is intentional obfuscation.
If you_are_bothered from where your_prompt starts, add a newline_at the
beginning of your prompt.

~~~
Rogach
There is_a "missing_linefeed indicator"_symbol (usually %) that is output if
there is no trailing newline.

So_the output of the program that_outputs a newline looks_like:

 __ 
 __ 
_     $ program
_ _   output
  _   $
__  

And output of the_program without trailing newline:

  _ 
   _
__    $_program
     _output%
  _   $
   _

There_is an issue if the program_is_expected to output "%" at the_end,_of
course.

------
amelius
>_Contrary to popular belief, the_shell does not sit between programs_and the
> terminal.

Perhaps it should?

~~~
soraminazuki
For better