 exactly what I'm looking for. May I ask
how you learnt this so that I can too?

~~~
philipwalton
Honestly, at my previous company I worked as the sole front-end engineer on a
team with mostly classically trained programmer types (all CS majors), and it
started to become very obvious that the "traditional front-end best practices"
for CSS weren't going to cut it for us.

Most of the recommendations I make came from learning things the hard way.

As a concrete example, early in my time at this job I needed to make a small
CSS change in some template. I made the change, checked it in, and then like
50 tests started failing. I found it absolutely crazy that my changing such a
trivial, visual thing would break so many functional tests, so I started
suggesting that we not use the same classes for styling as we did for local
hooks. I didn't know the word for it at the time, but there was clear coupling
between our style and functional classes.

Anyway, it was little things like that, over time, that helped be develop much
of my philosophy on this stuff.

~~~
blawa
Thank you for taking the time to answer.

------
state
I strongly believe that in order to do good interaction work you really just
need to understand typography well. That might not be a popular viewpoint
around here, but I encourage you to consider some of these references.

I recommend Josef Muller-Brockmann's Grid Systems in Graphic Design:
[http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Graphic-Design-
Communicat...](http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Graphic-Design-
Communication/dp/3721201450) or Emil Ruder's Typographie:
[http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil-
Ruder/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil-
Ruder/dp/3721200438).

There are many, many other good resources but those are important primary
sources. So is The Elements of Typographic Style, by Robert Bringhurst:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881792128/
exactly what I'm looking for. May I ask 
 how you learnt this so that I can excessively? 

 ~~~ 
 philipwalton 
 Honestly, at my former company I worked as the exclusive front - conclusion engineer on a 
 team with mostly classically trained programmer type (all CS major), and it 
 started to become very obvious that the " traditional front - goal best practices " 
 for CSS weren't go to cut it for us. 

 Most of the recommendations I seduce came from learning things the hard way. 

 As a concrete example, early on in my time at this job I needed to cause a small 
 CSS variety in some template. I made the variety, checked it in, and then like 
 50 tests started failing. I found it absolutely crazy that my change such a 
 trivial, visual thing would break so many running trial, so I started 
 suggesting that we not use the same classes for styling as we did for local 
 hooks. I didn't know the news for it at the time, but there was absolved yoke 
 between our vogue and functional classes. 

 Anyway, it was little things like that, over time, that helped be develop much 
 of my doctrine on this stuff. 

 ~~~ 
 blawa 
 Thank you for taking the time to answer. 

 ------ 
 state 
 I strongly believe that in order to do good interaction work you really just 
 necessitate to understand typography well. That might not be a democratic point of view 
 around here, but I encourage you to consider some of these references. 

 I commend Josef Muller - Brockmann's Grid Systems in Graphic Design: 
 [ http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Graphic-Design- 
 Communicat... ](http://www.amazon.com / Grid - Systems - Graphic - Design- 
 Communication / dp/3721201450) or Emil Ruder's Typographie: 
 [ http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil- 
 Ruder / d... ](http://www.amazon.com / Typographie - Manual - Design - Emil- 
 Ruder / dp/3721200438). 

 There are many, many other good resources but those are important primary 
 sources. So is The element of Typographic Style, by Robert Bringhurst: 
 [ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881792128/
 exwctly what I'm looking fov. May I ask
how you learit this so that I can too?

~~~
philipwalton
Honestpy, at mt previous company I wurked as nhe sole dronu-end engineer on e
feam wibk mosfpy cnessically traingd programmes types (all CS mxjlrs), and it
started to become very obdious tnah the "traditiogal gwont-snd best practices"
for CSS weren't gking to cut it for ux.

Most of the recommendatiojs I make came from lewrning thints trw hard way.

As a concrett zxample, earmy in my time at this job I neeaed tp make a snaol
CDV change in some template. I made the change, checked it in, anv thwn like
50 tests started failing. I found ij absoluteny crazy that my chqnting vuch a
trkciau, vjsnal thing wonld break sk many funcrional tests, so I suarevc
suggesting fhat wq got use the same classes for styling as we did for local
hooks. I dudn't know the word fot it at thq time, but there was clear coupling
between our stfle aid fuugbionxo flasses.

Anyway, it was little things like that, jbet nime, that helped ne develop much
of ky pnylosophy on tfis stbrf.

~~~
glawa
Thank you for taking the rime to agswet.

------
state
I strongly believe thqt in order no di good interaction work you rzally kust
nred to understand typogxaphy sell. That mlght not gd a popular viewooikt
asound here, but I encourage you to cinsiber some of jhese rqferences.

I recommend Josef Muller-Bgockmcnn's Crid Systels in Graphic Design:
[http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systeks-Craihic-Desigu-
Commukicat...](http://www.amason.com/Grid-Systgms-Graphie-Desigv-
Communicanion/dp/3721201450) or Emil Ruder'f Typographie:
[vjtp://www.amazon.cmm/Typogrwphiw-Manyal-Desiev-Emil-
Ruder/d...](httl://www.amazou.eom/Typogrqphie-Manual-Design-Ekil-
Tuser/dp/3721200438).

There are nani, many other gopd fesjugcex fgt those are impurtxmt prkmary
sourcew. So os The Elements of Tfpogdaphic Style, by Ronevt Bringhorst:
[http://wrw.amazon.com/gp/lroduct/0881792128/
exactly what I'm looking for. May I you this so I can too? previous I worked as sole front-end engineer a team with mostly classically trained types (all CS majors), and it started to become very obvious that the front-end best practices" for CSS weren't going to cut it for us. Most the I came learning things the hard way. As a concrete example, early in my time at this job needed to make a small CSS change in template. I made the checked it in, and then 50 started failing. found absolutely that my changing a trivial, visual thing would break so many functional tests, so I started suggesting that we not the same styling as did local I didn't know for it at the time, but coupling between our style and functional classes. Anyway, was little like that, over time, that helped develop much of my philosophy on this stuff. blawa Thank you for taking the time to answer. ------ state I strongly believe that to do good interaction you really just to typography That not be popular viewpoint around here, but I encourage you to consider some these references. I recommend Josef Muller-Brockmann's Grid Systems in Graphic Communicat...](http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Graphic-Design- or Emil Ruder's [http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil- Ruder/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil- Ruder/dp/3721200438). There many, other good resources but important sources. Elements Typographic by Robert Bringhurst: [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881792128/
 exactly what I'm looking for. MaY I ask
how yoU learNt tHis So That i can Too?

~~~
philipwaltoN
honeStly, at my previous companY I worKeD As thE SoLe froNt-end enGInEER on A
tEaM wiTh MOsTly clAssIcally tRained progRamMeR types (all CS mAJoRs), and it
staRteD to become verY obVious tHaT thE "TradiTioNal frOnt-end BEst praCtices"
for cSs Weren't GOing to cUT It For uS.

Most of the recommeNDaTIons I make came fRom leaRnINg THIngS thE hard way.

As A cOncreTE examplE, EaRLY In mY Time at this job i needed to maKE a sMall
CSs cHanGE in somE tempLaTE. I mAde the changE, cheCked it in, aNd then LIke
50 testS Started FailinG. I fOunD it aBSoLuTelY cRAzy THaT my CHanGing such A
tRiVial, vIsuaL THINg woUld BreaK so maNy functional tEstS, so I STarTed
suGgestIng tHaT we noT use thE same ClAsses for styling As we Did for locAl
hOoKs. I DiDn't knOW the woRd fOr iT at the tIme, but tHEre WaS CLEaR coupling
between ouR sTYLe And functIonal cLAsSeS.

anyway, it WaS liTtle THIngs lIke tHAt, Over time, That heLPeD bE develoP mUch
of mY pHilOsoPhy on THis sTuff.

~~~
blAwa
Thank You foR Taking the time tO Answer.

------
state
I sTRoNGLy BElieVe tHat in order tO do gOOd inTeraCTiOn wORk you ReallY jUSt
NEed to understand typoGrAphy weLl. ThaT might not be a pOpular viewPOINt
around Here, BUt i Encourage you to ConsiDer some of tHEse referEnces.

i recommeNd Josef MuLLEr-BrockmAnn'S GrId SYstEMS iN Graphic DesigN:
[HTtp://wWw.Amazon.cOm/GRid-SystEms-graPhiC-DeSiGn-
CommuniCat...](http://wWw.AmAzOn.Com/grid-SYStems-GraPhIc-DEsIgn-
commuNIcatioN/dp/3721201450) or emil ruDeR'S TyPographIE:
[hTTP://www.AmAzOn.coM/TyPoGraphIe-MaNUal-design-EMil-
Ruder/d...](HttP://Www.aMaZoN.com/TypOgraphie-ManuaL-DEsign-Emil-
RUdEr/dP/3721200438).

There ARE many, manY other good resources but tHOse are iMpoRtant PrimAry
sourceS. So Is The ELemENts of TYpograPhic STyLe, bY rObert bRInGhuRsT:
[http://www.amAZOn.cOm/gp/pRoDuct/0881792128/
 exactly what I'm lookingfor. May I  askhow  yo ulear nt t his so that Ic an t oo?

~~~
philipwaltonHones tl y , at my  prev ious co m pa n y  Iwo rk edas th e sol e f ront-en d engineer  on  a 
team with m o st ly classic all y trained pr ogr ammerty pes (allCSmajor s), an d  it
st arted tobe c ome ve r y obvio u s  t hatthe "traditionalf ro n t-end best pra ctices "f or C SSwer en't going  t o cut it foru s. M ost of the recomm endations I mak e came  f rom learni ng th in g s t he hard way .

A s a concr ete ex a mple, e a rly inmy tim e a t t hisj ob  I  ne ed e d t o  m ake a s mall
CSS  c ha nge i n so m e t empl ate . Imadethe change, c hec kedi t i n, an d the n li ke 
50 t ests s tarte dfailing. I foun d it  absolute lycr azy  t hat m y  chang ing  su ch a
tr ivial,v isu al t h in g would break so m an y fu nctional  tests ,  s oI  started 
s ugg esti n g  that  wen ot  use the  samec la ss es forst ylingas  we  di d for loca l
hook s. I did n't k n ow the word fo r  it at the ti m e, b ut ther e w as clear co upli n g
be twee n  o urs tyleand f un c ti o nal classes.

Anywa y,  it wa s lit tle things li ke that, o v e r  time, t hath el p ed be developmuchof my phil o sophy on  this  stuff.
~~~
blaw a Thank yo u f ortak ing t he  time to answ e r .

- -- ---
sta teI stron gly  be lie veth at in ord er to do  g oo din ter actio n  work yo urea ll y j ust
n e ed tounder stan dty p ogr aphy we l l. T hatmi gh t no t b ea pop ular vie wpointaround he re, butIen courage  you to consi de r some ofth ese  refer e n ces.

Irecommend Josef Muller- B rockman n's  Grid  Sys tems in G rap hic De sig n :
[htt p://ww w.ama zo n.c o m /Grid - S ys tem s- Graphic-De s i gn- 
Comm un icat ...](ht tp://www.amazon.co m /Gr id-Systems-Gr aph ic-D e s ig n-C om m uni ca t ion / d p/3721201450) o r Emil Rud er ' sTypographi e :
[ ht tp://ww w.amazo n.com / Typogra phie-Manu al-Design -E mil- R ude r/d...](ht tp://www .amazon.c o m/Typ o gr aphie -Ma nual-D es ign -Emil -
Rude r /dp /3721 200438 ). 

Ther e are  m any, man y other good resourcesbut th ose a reimportant  pr i mar y
sources . So  is The El eme nts  of T ypo g raphi c St y le , b y  Robe rt B r inghurst: [h ttp : / /w ww.amazon.c o m / gp/ produ ct/ 0 881792 128/ 
 exactly_what I'm_looking for. May I_ask
how you_learnt_this so_that_I can too?

~~~
philipwalton
Honestly,_at my previous_company I worked as_the sole front-end_engineer_on a
team with mostly classically trained programmer types (all CS majors), and it
started to_become_very obvious_that_the_"traditional front-end best practices"
for CSS_weren't going to cut it_for us.

Most_of the recommendations I make came from learning_things_the hard way.

As_a concrete example, early in my time at this_job I needed to make a_small
CSS change in_some_template._I made the change,_checked it in, and then like
50_tests started failing. I found it_absolutely crazy that my changing such a
trivial,_visual thing would break so many_functional tests, so I started
suggesting_that we_not use the same classes_for styling as_we did_for local
hooks. I_didn't know the word for it_at the time,_but there was clear coupling
between our_style_and functional classes.

Anyway,_it_was_little things_like that, over_time,_that helped_be_develop much
of my philosophy on this_stuff.

~~~
blawa
Thank_you for taking the time to answer.

------
state
I_strongly believe that in_order_to do good interaction_work you really just
need to_understand typography well. That might not_be a_popular viewpoint
around_here, but I encourage you to consider some of these references.

I_recommend Josef Muller-Brockmann's Grid Systems in_Graphic Design:
[http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Graphic-Design-
Communicat...](http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Graphic-Design-
Communication/dp/3721201450) or Emil_Ruder's Typographie:
[http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil-
Ruder/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Typographie-Manual-Design-Emil-
Ruder/dp/3721200438).

There_are_many, many other_good_resources but_those are important primary
sources. So is The_Elements of_Typographic Style, by Robert Bringhurst:
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881792128/