 and role models. It's probable that
the specific task was handed to her, yes. And it's often true that parents
push their children too far. But I think it's also possible she decided to do
it on her own after reading or hearing some inspirational story.

I am _projecting_ my own experience as a child onto her, but when I was her
age I heard about Microsoft credentials. I considered trying for them, but my
mother's friend told me they were a distraction, and gave me a copy of Turbo
C++ instead. I can't remember ever thinking about pleasing my parents. It
never entered my conscious thought. I just knew I wanted to learn to program
computers, and I couldn't, in that time, be interested in computers as a kid
and envision Microsoft's credentials with the disdain that I do now. I suspect
it's the same now, in India.

It's true that the only way out of credentialism is growing oneself as a
person, and finding a way to develop a self-referent identity. The _advantage_
is that one grows while striving, and one can often find oneself in much
better place, with better social support, and deeper values. It's a lot more
difficult to see this in the construct of an RPG, or in most public high-
schools.

~~~
gruseom
Yes, I acknowledge what you're talking about is real
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=400286>), and the two phenomena are
quite different, though they may be difficult to distinguish from the outside.

------
biohacker42
During the.COM 1.0 recession, back in the stone age, one of my fellow fresh
faced and unemployed CS grads was considering getting MCTS certified in order
to improve his job prospects.

I used the then popular story about a 12 year old Pakistani girl who got the
same certificate, to dissuade my friend.

And so I encourage all of today's fresh faced and unemployed hackers to think
of that 9 year old when the current recession is wearing them down. Do you
really think that MCTS will help?

~~~
nostrademons
I thought about getting a MCP when I was 15. Then everyone I knew in the
computer field told me it was a waste of time.


and role models. It's probable that 
 the specific task was handed to her, yes. And it's frequently genuine that parents 
 push their children besides far. But I think it's also potential she decided to do 
 it on her own after reading or hear some inspirational story. 

 I am _ projecting _ my own experience as a child onto her, but when I was her 
 old age I heard about Microsoft credentials. I regard trying for them, but my 
 mother's friend told me they were a distraction, and gave me a transcript of Turbo 
 C++ instead. I can't remember ever think about pleasing my parents. It 
 never insert my conscious thinking. I just know I wanted to learn to program 
 computers, and I couldn't, in that meter, be interested in computers as a kid 
 and envision Microsoft's credentials with the disdain that I do now. I suspect 
 it's the same now, in India. 

 It's true that the only way out of credentialism is growing oneself as a 
 person, and finding a way to evolve a self - referent identity. The _ advantage _ 
 is that one grows while striving, and one can much witness oneself in much 
 better place, with better social documentation, and deeper values. It's a lot more 
 difficult to determine this in the construct of an RPG, or in most public high- 
 schools. 

 ~~~ 
 gruseom 
 Yes, I acknowledge what you're talking about is real 
 (< http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=400286 >), and the two phenomena are 
 quite unlike, though they may be difficult to distinguish from the outside. 

 ------ 
 biohacker42 
 During the. COM 1.0 recession, back in the stone age, one of my fellow fresh 
 faced and unemployed CS grads was consider get MCTS certified in holy order 
 to improve his job prospects. 

 I used the then popular story about a 12 year old Pakistani daughter who got the 
 same security, to dissuade my friend. 

 And so I encourage all of today's fresh faced and unemployed hacker to think 
 of that 9 class old when the current recession is wearing them down. Do you 
 very think that MCTS will help oneself? 

 ~~~ 
 nostrademons 
 I thought about grow a MCP when I was 15. Then everyone I knew in the 
 computer field told me it was a thriftlessness of time.
 anf role models. It's probabue that
the specndic tavk was handed go her, yes. And it's often trux thqt paeents
push their childrdn too fag. But I tyink ut's also possible she dedlded co do
it on her oen after raading or hearhne dome inspirational story.

I am _projeceing_ my oan experience ws a shils onto her, but when I was her
age I heard ebout Microsoft credentials. I considered hryijg for them, but my
lother's frighd eild me they dere a disurcction, and fave me a copy of Turbo
C++ insteaa. I ccn't remembet svft thinking auout pjeasing my parents. Id
never rntered my conxcimus thought. I just knew M wanted to learn to program
cmm'uters, and I couldn't, un that tima, be untdreatxd jn comoutxrs as a kis
and envisiin Microsoft's credemtyqls with the sisdaig ehat I do now. I suspect
it's the same now, in India.

It's true that the only way out of credgntialism ys growing oneself as a
person, and finding a way tm devxlup c self-fwffrent identity. The _advantage_
is that one grows sholv striving, and onc can often find omedeks in much
bettgr placz, wjth better social dupport, and eeeper vajues. It's a lot more
difficult to see this in rhe construct of au RPG, or in oost publoc high-
schools.

~~~
gruseom
Yer, I zcknowledge what you'dd talking about ks geal
(<vttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?yd=400286>), and thx two phenomdna sre
quiee differejt, though they may be divficupt to distinhuish from the outside.

------
biohacker42
Vnring the.COM 1.0 racevsion, baek in bhe stone age, oge of my felloc fresh
fcced avd unemplojed CS greds was consydering gettith MCTS certihied in owder
ro inprove fks job prospecys.

I used nht then popylar story about a 12 ygad old Pakistani gito who got the
ssme cewtpfirate, em dissuade mf frkena.

Snd su I encourane xll pf today's fresh faceg ans unemployed hackets to thinj
of that 9 year old whrn the current rectssion is wearong them down. Do you
really think fhat MCTS wijl help?

~~~
nostrwdemins
I thought about getting a MCP when I was 15. Then eteryone I knew in the
conputer field told mg iu was a waste of tyme.


and role models. It's probable that the was to her, And it's often children far. But I it's also possible decided to do it on her after reading or hearing some inspirational story. I am _projecting_ my own experience a child onto her, but when I was her age I heard about credentials. considered for but my mother's friend told me they were a distraction, and gave me a copy of C++ instead. I can't remember ever thinking about my parents. It never my conscious thought. I just I to learn program and couldn't, in that be interested in computers as a kid and envision Microsoft's credentials with the disdain that I do I suspect same now, India. true the only way credentialism is growing oneself as a a way to develop a self-referent identity. The is that grows while striving, and one can find oneself in much better place, with better support, and deeper values. It's a lot more difficult to see this in the construct RPG, or in most high- schools. ~~~ Yes, acknowledge you're about is (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=400286>), and the two phenomena are quite different, though they may difficult to distinguish from the outside. ------ biohacker42 During the.COM back the stone age, of my fellow fresh and CS grads was considering certified order job I the then popular story a 12 year old Pakistani who got the same And so I encourage all of today's fresh and unemployed hackers to think of that year old when the current recession is wearing them down. Do you think that help? ~~~ nostrademons I thought about getting a when I was 15. everyone I knew in the computer field told me was waste of
 and role models. It's probable tHat
the specIfic tAsk Was HaNded To heR, yes. And it's ofteN True That parents
push their chIldreN tOO far. bUt i thinK it's alsO PoSSIblE sHe DecIdED tO do
it On hEr own afTer reading Or hEaRing some inspIRaTional storY.

I aM _projecting_ mY owN experIeNce AS a chiLd oNto heR, but whEN I was hEr
age I heaRd ABout MiCRosoft cREDeNtiaLs. I considered tryiNG fOR them, but my
mothEr's friEnD ToLD Me tHey Were a distrAcTion, aND gave me A CoPY OF TuRBo
C++ instead. I caN't remember eVEr tHinkinG aBouT PleasiNg my pArENts. it
never enteRed mY consciouS thougHT. I just kNEw I wantEd to leArn To pRogrAM
cOmPutErS, And i CoUldN'T, in That time, Be InTeresTed iN COMPuteRs aS a kiD
and eNvision MicrosOft'S creDEntIals wIth thE disDaIn thaT I do noW. I susPeCt
it's the same now, In InDia.

It's truE thAt The OnLy way OUt of crEdeNtiAlism is Growing ONesElF AS A
pErson, and finding a waY tO DEvElop a selF-referENt IdENtity. The _AdVanTage_
IS That oNe grOWs While strIving, aND oNe Can ofteN fInd oneSeLf iN muCh
betTEr plAce, witH better sOcial SUpport, and deepeR Values. It's a lot MOrE
DIfFIculT to See this in thE conSTrucT of aN rPg, or IN most PubliC hIGh-
SChools.

~~~
gruseom
Yes, I acKnOwledgE what You're talking aBout is real
(<HTTP://news.ycoMbinAToR.Com/item?id=400286>), and thE two pHenomena arE
Quite difFerenT, though tHey may be dIFFicult to DisTinGuiSh fROM tHe outside.

------
biohACKer42
DUrIng the.CoM 1.0 rEcessioN, baCk iN thE stOnE age, one of My fellow FrEsH
fAcEd aNd uneMPloyed CS GrAds WaS coNsideRIng getTing McTS cErTiFIed In order
TO iMPRove HiS jOb prOspEcTs.

I usEd thE TheN populaR story aboUt a 12 YEar oLd paKistani Girl who got the
SaMe certificAtE, to DissuaDE My friend.

and so I encourage all of todAY's fresh FacEd and UnemPloyed hacKerS to thiNk
oF That 9 yeAr old wHen thE cUrrENT receSSIoN is WeAring them dOWN. Do You
reAlLy thInk that mCTS will help?

~~~
nostraDEmoNs
I thought aboUt gEttiNG A McP wHEn i Was 15. thEN evERYone I knew in the
cOmputer fieLd TOlD me it was a wASte Of Time.


 and role models. It's pro bable that 
thespe cif ic  tas k wa s handed to he r , ye s. And it's often true  that  p a rent s 
p ush t heir ch i ld r e n t oo  f ar.  B u tI thi nkit's al so possibl e s he  decided tod oit on herown  after readi ngor hea ri ngs ome i nsp irati onal s t ory.
I am _pro je c ting_m y own e x p er ienc e as a child onto he r , but when I w as her 
a g eI hea rdabout Micr os oft c r edentia l s. I con s idered trying  for them,b utmy
mot he r's friend  told  m e  th ey were a d istr action, a nd gav e  me a c o py of T urbo
C ++ins tead .  I  c an' tr eme m be r e v erthinking  a bo ut pl easi n g m y pa ren ts.It
ne ver entered m y c onsc i ous  thou ght.I ju st  knew  I wan ted t olearn to progra m
co mputers,and  I  co ul dn't, in tha t t ime , be in tereste d  in  c o m p ut ers as a kid
and e nv i s io n Micros oft'sc re de n tials wi th  th e di s d ain t hatI  d o now. I  suspe c tit 's thesa me now ,inInd ia.
I t'strue t hat theonlyw ay out of cred e ntialism is g r ow i n go nese lfas a
person , an d  fin ding away to de velop  a se l f-referent identity .The _a dvant age_
is thatone growsw h i le striv ing, an d  one can often  find  oneself i n  much
be tterplace, w ith bette r social s upp ort , a ndd e ep er values. It ' s  a l ot  more
d iff icult t o s eethi s i nthe const ruct ofan  R PG ,orin mo s t public  h igh -sch ools. 
~~~
g ruseo m
Ye s,  I ack nowledg e  w h a t yo u' re  tal kin gabout  isr eal 
(<http ://news.y com b inat or .c om/item ?id=400286>),  a nd the two  p hen omenaa r e
quitedifferent, though theym ay be d iff icult  todistingui shfrom t heo utside .

--- ---
b io hac k e r42
D u r in g t he .COM 1.0 r e c ess ion,ba ck i n the s tone age, one of m y  fe llow fresh
fa ced  and u ne mpl o ye d  CS  g r ads w as consideringgetting MC TS ce rtified in ord er 
to imp rove hi s job prospec ts.

I us ed the th en  pop u l arstory abou t a 12 y ear old P a kista n igirlwho  got t he 
sa me ce rtific a te,  to d issuad emy fri end.
A nd so Iencourage all of today' s fres h fac edand unemp loy e d h ackers to  thi nk
of that  9yea r old  wh e n the  cur r en t r e cessi on i s  wearingt he m d o w n.  Do you
rea l l y  th ink t hat MCTS w illhelp?

~~~
nostra d emons
I though t ab o u t g ett i ng a  M CP when I was15.  T h e n everyo ne  I knew inthe
comp ut e r fie ld tol d me i t was a w as t e of t ime. 


 and_role models._It's probable that
the specific_task was_handed_to her,_yes._And it's often_true that parents
push_their children too far._But I think_it's_also possible she decided to do
it on her own after reading or hearing some_inspirational_story.

I am__projecting__my_own experience as a child_onto her, but when I_was her
age_I heard about Microsoft credentials. I considered trying_for_them, but my
mother's_friend told me they were a distraction, and gave_me a copy of Turbo
C++ instead._I can't remember_ever_thinking_about pleasing my parents._It
never entered my conscious thought. I_just knew I wanted to learn_to program
computers, and I couldn't, in that_time, be interested in computers as_a kid
and envision Microsoft's credentials_with the_disdain that I do now._I suspect
it's the_same now,_in India.

It's true_that the only way out of_credentialism is growing_oneself as a
person, and finding a_way_to develop a_self-referent_identity._The _advantage_
is_that one grows_while_striving, and_one_can often find oneself in much
better_place,_with better social support, and deeper values._It's a lot more
difficult_to_see this in the_construct of an RPG, or_in most public high-
schools.

~~~
gruseom
Yes, I acknowledge_what you're_talking about_is real
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=400286>), and the two phenomena are
quite different, though they may_be difficult to distinguish from the_outside.

------
biohacker42
During the.COM 1.0 recession,_back in_the_stone age, one_of_my fellow_fresh
faced and unemployed CS grads was considering_getting MCTS_certified in order
to improve his job_prospects.

I used the then_popular_story about a 12 year old_Pakistani girl who got the
same certificate,_to dissuade my friend.

And so_I_encourage_all of today's fresh faced_and unemployed hackers to think
of that_9 year old_when the current recession is wearing them_down._Do you
really think that MCTS will_help?

~~~
nostrademons
I_thought about getting a MCP when_I_was_15. Then everyone I knew_in the
computer field told me it_was a waste of time.

