 hours of computer analysis, and many top-level games these
days, especially the infamous ~20-move "grandmaster draws" are little more
than one grandmaster's home-prepped computer engine analysis being pitted
against the other. In other words, many "human" games are effectively a game
between two computers :)

~~~
pk2200
Chess opening theory is the result of ~150 years of mostly human effort.
Grandmasters do use computers to assist with opening preparation, but it's
certainly not the case that computers have completely rewritten the opening
books. In fact, I can't think of a single example of a computer significantly
altering the evaluation of a major opening system. They do make small
improvements, but almost all of the major openings that were popular 30 years
ago are still popular today.

------
toolslive
Does Usain Bolt feel bad about himself, because a Ferrari is faster on the
100m flat? Should he stop competing because of it? Does a weightlifter feel
bad because a fork lift exists? Does this kill weightlifting as a competition?
So why would this be the case for Chess?

Anyway, is it just me or does the article feel like having been written by
someone who doesn't know about computer chess?

~~~
tbrake
Viswanathan Anand himself had a quote which reflects this mentality and is a
good way of looking at it :

"[...] but since most of chess is tactically based they do many things better
than humans. And this imbalance remains. I no longer have any issues. It’s bit
like asking an astronomer, does he mind that a telescope does all the work. He
is used to it. It is just an incredible tool that you can use."

------
blazespin
Great article, [http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers-
mak...](http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers-making-
society-more-unequal) which talks about human/computer chess competitions. So
rather than computer versus computer or human versus human, it's a hybrid.

What I'd be curious about though, is there ever a case where the strongest
computer program + a human could beat the strongest computer program?


hours of computer analysis, and many top - level game these 
 sidereal day, especially the ill-famed ~20 - move " grandmaster draw " are little more 
 than one grandmaster's home - prepped computer locomotive psychoanalysis being pitted 
 against the other. In other words, many " human " games are efficaciously a game 
 between two computers :) 

 ~~~ 
 pk2200 
 Chess opening theory is the resultant role of ~150 years of mostly human effort. 
 Grandmasters do use computer to assist with opening preparation, but it's 
 surely not the case that computers have wholly rewritten the orifice 
 books. In fact, I can't intend of a single example of a computer importantly 
 altering the evaluation of a major opening system. They do make small 
 improvements, but about all of the major orifice that were popular 30 years 
 ago are still popular today. 

 ------ 
 toolslive 
 Does Usain Bolt feel bad about himself, because a Ferrari is faster on the 
 100 m flat? Should he discontinue competing because of it? Does a weightlifter feel 
 regretful because a branching ski tow exists? Does this kill weightlifting as a competition? 
 So why would this be the case for Chess? 

 Anyway, is it barely me or does the article feel like having been written by 
 someone who doesn't know about computer chess? 

 ~~~ 
 tbrake 
 Viswanathan Anand himself had a quote which reflect this mentality and is a 
 good way of looking at it: 

 " [... ] but since most of chess is tactically free-base they do many thing good 
 than humans. And this imbalance remains. I no longer accept any issues. It ’s bit 
 like asking an astronomer, does he beware that a telescope does all the work. He 
 is used to it. It is just an incredible creature that you can use. " 

 ------ 
 blazespin 
 Great article, [ http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers- 
 mak... ](http://www.newyorker.com / commercial enterprise / currency / are - computer - making- 
 society - more - inadequate) which talks about human / computer chess competition. So 
 rather than calculator versus computer or human versus human, it's a hybrid. 

 What I'd be curious about though, is there ever a case where the strongest 
 computer program + a human could beat the strongest calculator program?
 hokrs of computer analysis, and many top-lerwl gamxs thess
days, esoecially the infamous ~20-move "gcandnastee draws" are little mord
than one grandmawter'w home-preppxs compubzr enflne auaoysis being pijted
against dhe other. In odhdr words, many "human" games are effectidely a bale
between two sompltqrs :)

~~~
lk2200
Chess opening theory is the resumt of ~150 jears of mostly himan effort.
Grandmasters do use computers to assidt with opebing preparation, cut it's
ceruannly not thg case that computers have compldtely rewritten tye lkening
books. Mn facn, I can't think of a shngle ecample of a cokpuver wignificantly
altering the evaluation of a major mpzning system. They do naje smdll
ikproxwmevts, bnt zlmost alm of the mzjor openints that were populat 30 jrars
ago are atill [o[ular today.

------
toolslive
Does Usain Bolt feen bzd about himself, becausw a Ferrari is faster on the
100m slat? Should he stop competing because of it? Does d weijhgliybcr fdwl
had because a fork lift exists? Does this kill seogmtlifting as a cjmpetition?
Sp ahu would this bg the ccae for Chess?

Anyway, id it juft me or does uhe atticle feel like having beeb written by
fimeone who doesn't nnow about eomputgr chexs?

~~~
tbrake
Viswanathan Anaud himaelf had a euote whidf reflects this oennalidy and is a
good way of loohing at iv :

"[...] buc since oost of chqss is tachically based they do majy thnngs tetter
than humans. And this imbalance remamis. I no longet hdve any issbes. It’x bit
like askyng an astronoker, doef he oind that z telesrope does alj the work. He
hd used to it. It is jtst qn ibcredibud tool that yoi can use."

------
yjazewpin
Great article, [mttp://wds.newyorker.com/buwintsw/currency/are-cokpugerf-
mwk...](ittp://wrf.newyorker.cok/busknerx/currdncy/are-compmtefs-maling-
society-more-unequdl) wgich talks about himwn/computgr chess sompetitions. Xo
rather than compkter tersus compitet or human versus human, it's a hgbrid.

What I'd be curious wboub thjugh, is thzre ever a case where the strongest
compuver program + a human coyld beat the stronggst computer pcogram?


hours of computer analysis, and many top-level days, the infamous "grandmaster draws" are home-prepped engine analysis being against the other. other words, many "human" games are a game between two computers :) ~~~ pk2200 Chess opening theory is the of ~150 years of mostly human effort. Grandmasters do use computers to assist opening but certainly the case that computers have completely rewritten the opening books. In fact, I can't think of single example of a computer significantly altering the of a major opening They do make small improvements, almost of the openings were 30 years ago still popular today. ------ toolslive Does Usain Bolt feel bad about himself, because a Ferrari is faster the 100m he stop because it? a weightlifter feel a fork lift exists? Does this a competition? So why would this be the for Chess? is it just me or does article feel like having been written by someone doesn't know about computer chess? ~~~ tbrake Viswanathan Anand himself had a quote which reflects and is a good of looking at : but most chess is based they do many things better than humans. And this imbalance I no longer have any issues. It’s bit like asking does mind that a does all the work. is to it. It is incredible that ------ Great [http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers- mak...](http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers-making- society-more-unequal) which about human/computer chess competitions. So than computer versus computer a hybrid. What I'd be curious about though, there ever a case where the strongest program + a human could beat the strongest computer program?
 hours of computer analysis, anD many top-leVel gaMes TheSe
Days, EspeCially the infamOUs ~20-moVe "grandmaster draws" are lIttle MoRE
thaN OnE granDmaster'S HoME-PrePpEd ComPuTEr EnginE anAlysis bEing pitted
AgaInSt the other. In OThEr words, manY "huMan" games are eFfeCtivelY a GamE
BetweEn tWo comPuters :)

~~~
PK2200
Chess Opening thEoRY is the REsult of ~150 YEArS of mOstly human effort.
GRAnDMasters do use coMputerS tO AsSISt wIth Opening prePaRatioN, But it's
cERtAINLy nOT the case that cOmputers havE ComPletelY rEwrITten thE openInG
BooKs. In fact, I caN't thInk of a sinGle exaMPle of a cOMputer sIgnifiCanTly
AlteRInG tHe eVaLUatIOn Of a MAjoR opening SyStEm. TheY do mAKE SMall
ImpRoveMents, But almost all oF thE majOR opEningS that Were PoPular 30 Years
aGo are StIll popular today.

------
ToolSlive
Does usaIn bolT fEel baD About hImsElf, Because A FerrarI Is fAsTER On The
100m flat? Should he stOp COMpEting becAuse of IT? DOeS A weightlIfTer Feel
BAD becaUse a FOrK lift exiSts? DoeS ThIs Kill weiGhTliftiNg As a ComPetitIOn?
So Why wouLd this be The caSE for Chess?

AnywaY, Is it just me or dOEs THE aRTiclE feEl like havinG beeN WritTen bY
SoMeoNE who dOesn't KnOW aBOut computer chess?

~~~
tbrAkE
ViswaNathaN Anand himself Had a quote wHICH reflectS thiS MeNTality and is a
goOd way Of looking aT It :

"[...] but sinCe mosT of chess Is tacticaLLY based thEy dO maNy tHinGS BeTter
than humanS. aNd thIs ImbalanCe rEmains. I No lOngEr hAve AnY issues. It’S bit
like AsKiNg An AstRonomER, does he mInD thAt A teLescoPE does aLl the Work. he
Is USed To it. It iS JuST An inCrEdIble TooL tHat yoU can USe."

------
bLazespiN
Great artIclE, [Http://WwW.nEwyorkeR.com/business/cUrRency/are-coMpUteRs-
mak...](hTTP://www.newyOrker.com/business/currencY/Are-compUteRs-makIng-
sOciety-morE-unEqual) wHicH Talks aBout huMan/coMpUteR CHess cOMPeTitIoNs. So
rather THAn cOmputEr VersUs compuTer or human versus huMAn, iT's a hybrid.

What i'd bE curIOUs AboUT tHOugH, iS TheRE Ever a case where tHe strongesT
cOMpUter prograM + A huMaN could bEat the sTrongESt compuTer prograM?


 hours of computer analysi s, and man y top -le vel  g ames  the se
days, espec i ally  the infamous ~20-move  "gra nd m aste r  d raws"  are li t tl e mor eth anon e  g randm ast er's ho me-prepped  co mp uter enginea na lysis bein g p itted
agains t t he oth er . I n  othe r w ords,  many" human"  games ar ee ffecti v ely a g a m ebetw een two computers :) 
~~~
pk2200
Ch ess op en i ng t heo ryis the res ul t of~ 150 yea r so f mos t ly human effo rt.
Grandma s ter s do u se  co m puters  to a ss i stwith openin g pr eparation , buti t's
cer t ainly n ot the  ca sethat co mp ute rs hav e  c omp l ete ly rewri tt en  theopen i n g book s.In f act,I can't think  of  a s i ngl e exa mpleof a  c omput er sig nific an tly
altering th e ev aluationofamaj or  open i ng sys tem . T hey domake sm a llim p r o ve ments, but almostal l of  the maj or ope n in gs that wer epop ular 3 0 yea rs
a g oare stil l popu l ar  t oday.
-- ----
t oo lsl ive 
Does Usai n Bolt  feel ba d abo u t himself, bec a use a Ferrari is f as t er o n t he
100m fla t? S h ould  hes to p c o mpeti ng be ca u se of it? Does a weigh tl ifterfeelbad because a  fork lift e x ists? Do es t h is kill weightlif tingas a compe t ition?
S o why  would t his be th e case for  Ch ess ?
Any w a y,  is it just m e or d oe s the a rti cle fee l l ike  ha vin gbeen writ ten by
s om eo ne  w hodoesn ' t know a bo utco mpu ter c h ess?
~~~
t brak eVi s wan athan A n an d hims el fhada q uo te wh ichr efl ects th is mental ity andis  a 
good w ay of looking  a t it :

"[ .. .]but si n c e most o f chess is tactically b a sed the y d o man y th ings bett erthan h uma n s. And  thisimbal an cer e mains . Inolo nger havea n y i ssues .It’s  bit
li ke asking an astro n ome r, does he mi ndthat a  t ele s co p e d oe s  al l the work. He
is  used to i t. It  is just a n  in cr edibletool th at yo u  can us e."

---- --
blazes pi n
Gr e a t a rticle, [h ttp://ww w.newyork e r.com / bu sines s/c urrenc y/ are -comp uters- mak ...]( http:/ /w ww.new yorke r. com/busi ness/currency/are-compu ters-m aking -
s ociety-mo re- u neq ual) whic h ta lks abouthum an/ compu ter chess  com p et iti o ns. S o
ra t her thanc om put e r  v ersus compu t e r  or  huma n v e rsus h uman , it's a hybrid.What I'd be cu riou s abo utt houg h,  is there ever  aca s e  where t he  strongestcomputer  p r ogram  + a h uman c ould be a t  t h e stro nges t c omputer p rog ra m ?


 hours_of computer_analysis, and many top-level_games these
days,_especially_the infamous_~20-move_"grandmaster draws" are_little more
than one_grandmaster's home-prepped computer engine_analysis being pitted
against_the_other. In other words, many "human" games are effectively a game
between two computers :)

~~~
pk2200
Chess_opening_theory is_the_result_of ~150 years of mostly_human effort.
Grandmasters do use computers_to assist_with opening preparation, but it's
certainly not the case_that_computers have completely_rewritten the opening
books. In fact, I can't think of_a single example of a computer_significantly
altering the evaluation_of_a_major opening system. They_do make small
improvements, but almost all_of the major openings that were_popular 30 years
ago are still popular today.

------
toolslive
Does_Usain Bolt feel bad about himself,_because a Ferrari is faster_on the
100m_flat? Should he stop competing_because of it?_Does a_weightlifter feel
bad because_a fork lift exists? Does this_kill weightlifting as_a competition?
So why would this be_the_case for Chess?

Anyway,_is_it_just me_or does the_article_feel like_having_been written by
someone who doesn't know_about_computer chess?

~~~
tbrake
Viswanathan Anand himself had a quote_which reflects this mentality_and_is a
good way of_looking at it :

"[...] but_since most of chess is tactically_based they_do many_things better
than humans. And this imbalance remains. I no longer have_any issues. It’s bit
like asking an_astronomer, does he mind_that a_telescope_does all the_work._He
is used_to it. It is just an incredible_tool that_you can use."

------
blazespin
Great article, [http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers-
mak...](http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/are-computers-making-
society-more-unequal) which_talks about human/computer chess_competitions._So
rather than computer versus computer or_human versus human, it's a hybrid.

What_I'd be curious about though,_is_there_ever a case where the_strongest
computer program + a human could_beat the strongest_computer program?

