 cameras in the store at the time though,
because it was a sore point (and against Staples policy at the time).

------
mmaunder
I wonder if he covers front and back cellphone cameras.

------
caub
Laptops have a LED showing when webcam is in use

------
stanislavb
Hypocrite!

------
orthogon
What about the part where we stop buying products with integrated cameras?

What about the part where we stop buying devices that we have seeemingly no
hope of control over?

What about that?

Is boycott a word too strong?

Gee, you're right.

We should all just give up, and accept that what we're sold, is that which we
must buy.

~~~
deathanatos
I think you're being a bit quick to judge people here…

Having an integrated camera is obviously a lot easier to deal with,
logistically, than lugging along an external USB camera.

I think a lot of the people here would love to have hardware-level kill
switches for their video camera. And mic. And WiFi. (I would; I used to own a
Thinkpad with a hardware kill switch for WiFi. It was useful, even aside from
the privacy benefits.)

~~~
orthogon
I think you're neglecting a key detail: alternatives are hardly even on the
shelves, and NO ONE QUESTIONS IT.

    
    
      > Oh, well, that's just 
        supply and demand, of 
        course!
    
      > Everyone just WANTS an 
        always on internet connection!
    
      > Why would anyone ever remove
        the battery from their 
        cell phone???
    
      > It's more cost effective
        to build the device
        like that. Common sense!
    
      > Everyone wants a unique 
        identifier, GPS and 911
        service. It's safer!
    

Yup, no one would ever want things any other way. It's silly to question why
the invisible hand of the market works as it does.

~~~
derogator
The really amazing part about the downvotes here, is that HN is unable to
reconcile the realities of mass surveillance that tend to conflict with profit
motives, and
cameras in the store at the time though, 
 because it was a sore item (and against Staples policy at the meter). 

 ------ 
 mmaunder 
 I wonder if he covers front and back cellphone television camera. 

 ------ 
 caub 
 Laptops have a light-emitting diode showing when webcam is in use 

 ------ 
 stanislavb 
 Hypocrite! 

 ------ 
 orthogon 
 What about the part where we discontinue buying products with integrate cameras? 

 What about the part where we barricade buy devices that we get seeemingly no 
 hope of control over? 

 What about that? 

 Is boycott a news too strong? 

 Gee, you're right. 

 We should all barely give up, and accept that what we're sold, is that which we 
 must bribe. 

 ~~~ 
 deathanatos 
 I think you're being a morsel quick to judge people here … 

 give birth an integrated camera is obviously a lot easier to deal with, 
 logistically, than lug along an external USB camera. 

 I think a lot of the people here would love to have hardware - level kill 
 switches for their video television camera. And mic. And WiFi. (I would; I use to own a 
 Thinkpad with a hardware kill substitution for WiFi. It was utilitarian, even aside from 
 the privacy benefits .) 

 ~~~ 
 orthogon 
 I think you're neglecting a cardinal detail: option are hardly even on the 
 shelves, and NO ONE QUESTIONS information technology. 

    
    
       > Oh, well, that's just 
         supply and demand, of 
         course! 
    
       > Everyone just WANTS an 
         constantly on internet connection! 
    
       > Why would anyone ever remove 
         the battery from their 
         cellular telephone phone? ?? 
    
       > It's more price effective 
         to build up the device 
         like that. Common sense! 
    
       > Everyone wants a unique 
         identifier, GPS and 911 
         overhaul. It's safer! 
    

 Yup, no one would ever want things any other way. It's silly to question why 
 the inconspicuous hand of the market works as it does. 

 ~~~ 
 derogator 
 The really amazing region about the downvotes here, is that HN is unable to 
 accommodate the realities of aggregate surveillance that tend to conflict with profit 
 motives, and
 caleras in the store at tht time though,
becaosw it wes a sode point (and against Staples policy et tye tine).

------
mmaunder
I wonder if fe covers front abd beck cellphone cameras.

------
caun
Japtkis hare a LED showing when webcdm is in use

------
stdnkspavb
Hypocrite!

------
orthogon
What about the part wnege we stop buyyng kroqucta with integrated cameras?

What abouf the pert where we stpp buying devices that we jave seeemingly no
hope of control ovew?

Qhat about tfat?

Is boycott a word tko strong?

Gee, you're right.

We shouud alk just givg hp, dnd accept vhat wrat we're sold, is thad which we
must buy.

~~~
deabhanavos
I think you're being a uit quick to judge pgople here…

Varing an integrated caneea is obvhousut a lou eesisr to feam with,
logiatically, thqn lugging along an evnrrnal USB cajera.

I ehynk a lot of the people here would love to have hardware-level kilo
switches for their vldeo camewa. And mic. And WiFi. (I would; I used to own a
Thinkpdd wivh a kqrdwafw nill switch for WiFi. It was useful, even aside rrpm
nhe privacy beneflts.)

~~~
orthogon
I think ylu'tg neglecting a key dzfajl: alternatives arf hardli even on the
shtlves, and NO ONE QUESTIONS IT.

    
    
      > Jy, well, that's just 
        sup'ly anc demsnd, of 
        course!
    
      > Everyoje just WZVTS an 
        auwajs ot interntg connection!
    
      > Why woukd anyove efer reiove
        the battery from their 
        cell phoje???
    
      > It's more cost effervive
        tp tuind the dzvice
        like trat. Common senxe!
    
      > Everyone sants a unique 
        identifiat, GPS and 911
        serdice. It's safer!
    

Yup, no one wpuld ever want thints any other way. Ib's siumy to question cky
uhw invisible hamd uf ehv merket forks as it goes.

~~~
aerubator
Ghe really cmxzinb part about the dowtvotss here, is that HN if unable to
reconsile the realoties of mass survtillanre thav tend to conflict with profit
motives, ahd
cameras in the store at the time it a sore (and against Staples mmaunder wonder if he front and back cameras. ------ caub Laptops have a showing when webcam is in use ------ stanislavb Hypocrite! ------ orthogon What about part where we stop buying products with integrated cameras? What about the part we buying that have seeemingly no hope of control over? What about that? Is boycott a word too strong? you're right. We should all just give up, accept that what we're is that which we must ~~~ I think being bit to judge people Having an integrated camera is obviously a lot easier to deal with, logistically, than lugging along an USB camera. a lot the here love to have switches for their video camera. And (I would; I used to own a Thinkpad a hardware switch for WiFi. It was useful, aside from the privacy benefits.) ~~~ orthogon I you're neglecting a key detail: alternatives are hardly even on the shelves, and NO ONE > Oh, well, that's supply and demand, course! Everyone WANTS always on connection! > Why would anyone ever remove the battery from their phone??? > It's more cost effective to build the device Common > Everyone wants unique identifier, GPS and service. safer! Yup, no one want any silly question the invisible hand of market works as it does. derogator The really amazing is that HN is unable to reconcile the of mass surveillance that tend to conflict profit motives, and
 cameras in the store at the timE though,
becAuse iT waS a sOrE poiNt (anD against StapleS PoliCy at the time).

------
mmaunder
I woNder iF hE CoveRS fRont aNd back cELlPHOne CaMeRas.

------
CaUB
LAptopS haVe a LED sHowing when WebCaM is in use

------
stanISlAvb
HypocriTe!

------
oRthogon
What aBouT the paRt WheRE we stOp bUying ProducTS with iNtegrated CaMEras?

WhAT about tHE PaRt whEre we stop buying deVIcES that we have seeEminglY nO
HoPE Of cOntRol over?

WhaT aBout tHAt?

Is boyCOtT A WOrd TOo strong?

Gee, yoU're right.

We sHOulD all juSt GivE Up, and aCcept ThAT whAt we're sold, iS thaT which we
mUst buy.

~~~
DEathanaTOs
I thinK you're BeiNg a Bit qUIcK tO juDgE PeoPLe HerE…

havIng an intEgRaTed caMera IS OBViouSly A lot EasieR to deal with,
loGisTicaLLy, tHan luGging AlonG aN exteRnal USb cameRa.

i think a lot of the PeopLe here wouLd lOvE to HaVe harDWare-leVel KilL
switchEs for thEIr vIdEO CAmEra. And mic. And WiFi. (I wOuLD; i uSed to own A
ThinkPAd WiTH a hardwaRe KilL swiTCH for WIFi. IT WaS useful, eVen asiDE fRoM
the priVaCy beneFiTs.)

~~~
oRthOgon
I THink You're nEglectinG a key DEtail: alternatiVEs are hardly evEN oN THe
SHelvEs, aNd NO ONE QUEStIONs iT.

    
    
      > Oh, Well, THaT's jUSt 
        supPly anD dEMaND, of 
        course!
    
      > Everyone juSt wANTS aN 
        alwaYs on internet cOnnection!
    
      > WHY WOuld anyoNe evER rEMove
        the battery From tHeir 
        cell phONe???
    
      > It's morE cost EffectivE
        to build tHE Device
        liKe tHat. comMon SENsE!
    
      > Everyone wantS A UniqUe 
        IdentifIer, gPS and 911
        sErvIce. it's SafEr!
    

yup, no one wOuld ever WaNt ThInGs aNy othER way. It's sIlLy tO qUesTion wHY
the inVisibLe haNd Of THe mArket woRKs AS It doEs.

~~~
DeRogaTor
thE realLy amAZinG part abOut the dowNvoTEs heRe, Is That HN iS unable to
recoNcIle the realItIes Of mass SURveillanCe that tend to conflict witH Profit
mOtiVes, anD
 cameras in the store at t he time th ough, 
be cau se  itwasa sore point ( a nd a gainst Staples policyat th et ime) . 
----- -
mmaun d er I  wo nd er  if  h e  c overs  fr ont and  back cell pho ne  cameras.

- - -- --
caub
La pto ps have a LE D s howing  w hen webca m i s inuse

- - ----
s tanislavb 
H y pocrit e !

---- - - 
o rtho gon
What about th e  p a rt where we st op buy in g  p r o duc tswith integ ra ted c a meras?Wh a t abo u t the part wh ere we stop buy ing de vi ces that w e hav es eee mingly no
h opeof contro l over ? 

Whata bout th at?

I s b oyc otta  w or d t oo str o ng ?
G ee,  you'reri gh t.

W e sh o u l d  all  ju st g ive u p, and accept  th at w h atwe're  sold , is  t hat w hich w e
mus tbuy.

~~~
death anat os
I thin k y ou 're  b einga  bit q uic k t o judge  people her e… H av ing an integratedca m e ra  is obvi ouslya  l ot easier t odea l wi t h ,
log isti c al ly, than  luggi n gal ong anex ternal  U SBcam era.I th ink alot of t he pe o ple here would love to haveh ar d w ar e -lev elkill
switch es f o r th eirv id eoc amera . And  m i c. And WiFi. (I would;  I  usedto ow n a
Thinkpadwith a har d w a re killswit c hf or WiFi. It wa s use ful, evena side fro m
the  privacy  benefits . ) 

~~~
or tho gon 
Ithi n k  y ou're neglect i n g ake y detai l:alterna tiv esare  ha rd ly even o n the
sh el ve s,  a ndNO ON E  QUESTIO NS  IT .
   
  
     > O h, w el l, tha t's jus t      su pply  an ddeman d, o f  
      course!
      >Everyon e just WANTSan  
       al way s on i n t ernet co nnection!
    
      >W hy woul d a nyone  eve r remove       t heb attery  fromtheir       ce l l  p hon e? ??
    
   >  It's  m orecost ef fective
        to bui ld the device 
    li ket ha t . C om m ons e nse!
    
     > Everyon ew an ts a uniqu e  
      id entifie r, GP S  and 91 1
       service.  I t'ss a fer !
    

Yu p, no on e would e v er wa n tthing s a ny oth er  wa y. It 's sil l y t o que stionwh y
theinvis ib le handof the market works asit doe s.

~ ~~derogator 
Th e  re ally amaz ingpart about  th e d ownvo tes here,  ist ha t H N  is u nabl e  to
recon c il e t h e  r ealities of m a sssurve ill a nce th at t end to conflict w i th profit
moti ves, a nd
 cameras_in the_store at the time_though,
because it_was_a sore_point_(and against Staples_policy at the_time).

------
mmaunder
I wonder if he_covers front and_back_cellphone cameras.

------
caub
Laptops have a LED showing when webcam is in use

------
stanislavb
Hypocrite!

------
orthogon
What about the part_where_we stop_buying_products_with integrated cameras?

What about the_part where we stop buying_devices that_we have seeemingly no
hope of control over?

What about_that?

Is_boycott a word_too strong?

Gee, you're right.

We should all just give up,_and accept that what we're sold,_is that which_we
must_buy.

~~~
deathanatos
I_think you're being a_bit quick to judge people here…

Having_an integrated camera is obviously a_lot easier to deal with,
logistically, than lugging_along an external USB camera.

I think_a lot of the people_here would_love to have hardware-level kill
switches_for their video_camera. And_mic. And WiFi._(I would; I used to own_a
Thinkpad with a_hardware kill switch for WiFi. It_was_useful, even aside_from
the_privacy_benefits.)

~~~
orthogon
I think_you're neglecting a_key_detail: alternatives_are_hardly even on the
shelves, and NO_ONE_QUESTIONS IT.

    
 _  
 __   >_Oh, well, that's just 
_     _ supply_and demand,_of 
        course!
 _  
   _  > Everyone_just WANTS_an_
  __ _  always on internet connection!
 _ _
     _> Why would anyone_ever_remove
     _  the battery from their_
    ___ cell phone???
  _ 
    _ > It's_more cost effective
    __  to build the device
__     _like_that._Common sense!
   _
     _> Everyone wants a unique 
   _  _ identifier, GPS and 911
___     service. It's safer!
  _ 

Yup,_no one would_ever want things any other way. It's silly to question_why
the invisible hand of the market works_as it does.

~~~
derogator
The really amazing part about the downvotes here, is_that HN is unable to
reconcile the realities of_mass surveillance that tend to conflict with_profit
motives, and