 seminar where they welcomed you to the company.
When the woman said "we get 19 days PTO a year", you'd be surprised how many
people shot up and said "can we start taking them right now?"

Before they had even worked a day! PTO days are accurred by hours worked. For
me, it's ~6 hours per 15 calendar days. You think you're entitled to PTO
having worked 0 hours?...

~~~
jkaplowitz
For vacation days, your point makes sense to me. For sick days, people don't
get to choose when they get sick. Someone can just as easily get sick on day 1
or 2 of a job as on day 401 or 402.

~~~
WalterBright
I once talked to a manager about how he handed out raises. He mentioned one
engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each year. Coincidentally, the
company offered 10 days of paid sick leave a year.

He laughed, and said she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't give her a raise.

~~~
lkey
So he decided he'd figured out her scam without ever bringing it up in yearly
or monthly review. He also never asked for proof of the 10 days of sick leave
after the first year, which is reasonable to do if he had a suspicion she was
flouting a rule. If he wanted to factor sick days into his pay decision, he
had a _responsibility_ to make sure he was correct using the proper internal
channels.

An alternate and equally plausible view is that she had a condition that
rendered her borderline ill more than 10 days a year, but couldn't afford to
take unpaid leave. So she just 'toughed it out' instead for the remaining
days.

Laughing vindictively as you deny a raise to someone isn't something be lauded
or emulated under any circumstance.

~~~
WalterBright
Fair enough, I agree he was being passive aggressive, but on the other hand,
if someone is doing something that has the appearance of impropriety, it's a
good idea to proactively bring it up with the boss to head off the suspicions.

~~~
chrsstrm
What does "improper" mean and who gets to decide what actions are improper?
Paid days are paid days and just because they have a certain
seminar where they welcomed you to the company. 
 When the woman said " we draw 19 sidereal day PTO a year ", you'd be storm how many 
 multitude shot up and said " can we begin fill them right nowadays? " 

 Before they had even worked a day! power takeoff days are accurred by hours worked. For 
 me, it's ~6 hours per 15 calendar day. You think you're entitled to PTO 
 having worked 0 hours? ... 

 ~~~ 
 jkaplowitz 
 For vacation days, your detail makes sense to me. For sick day, people don't 
 get to choose when they get sick. Someone can merely as easily get sick on day 1 
 or 2 of a caper as on day 401 or 402. 

 ~~~ 
 WalterBright 
 I once talked to a manager about how he handed out raises. He mentioned one 
 engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each year. Coincidentally, the 
 company offered 10 days of paid sick leave a year. 

 He laugh, and say she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't grant her a ascent. 

 ~~~ 
 lkey 
 So he decided he'd figured out her scam without always bringing it up in annual 
 or monthly review. He also never asked for validation of the 10 days of sick leave 
 after the first year, which is reasonable to act if he had a suspicion she was 
 flouting a rule. If he want to factor pale days into his pay decision, he 
 had a _ responsibility _ to do sure he was correct using the proper inner 
 channels. 

 An alternate and equally plausible view is that she had a circumstance that 
 rendered her borderline ill more than 10 days a year, but couldn't afford to 
 consider unpaid leave. So she merely' toughed it out' instead for the persist 
 days. 

 Laughing vindictively as you deny a raise to someone isn't something be laud 
 or emulated under any circumstance. 

 ~~~ 
 WalterBright 
 Fair enough, I agree he was being passive aggressive, but on the early hand, 
 if someone is doing something that has the appearance of impropriety, it's a 
 full idea to proactively bring it up with the boss to steer off the suspicions. 

 ~~~ 
 chrsstrm 
 What does " improper " mean and who gets to decide what action are improper? 
 Paid days are paid days and just because they have a certain
 selinar where they welcomea you to the company.
Whxn the soman sakd "we get 19 days PTO a year", ylu'e be wurprised how many
peopue shot ui and saie "cai we start takinj them rlyht nka?"

Befmce they had evek worked a gay! PTO days ase aecurred by hours worked. For
me, it's ~6 hjurs pet 15 calendar days. You ehini you're entitled to PTO
having worksd 0 hougs?...

~~~
jkaplowitz
For vscation days, your point manes dense to me. For sifk days, peokme qin't
get to chuose when uhzy get sick. Someone can just as easily get sick on day 1
or 2 if w job as on vay 401 og 402.

~~~
WalterBrighb
P once dalked yo a manager anout iow ye handed out raises. Ie mentioned one
engigeer who faa sick exactly 10 dqyw out of aach teaf. Ckiicisentalpy, vhe
company kffered 10 dats of paid sick leafe q year.

He laugged, anq faid she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't gibe her a raise.

~~~
lkey
So he decided he'd figured lut her ssam without ever bringing it up in yearly
or monthny retidw. Kc xosl never asked for proof of the 10 days of sick jsafe
sfter the firsb year, which is resslnsfle to do if fe had a auspicion she was
fpouting a ruoe. If he rantrd to factor sick days into his pay decpsiob, he
had a _responsiyility_ to maye sore he was correct using the 'roper internal
chwnnels.

An zuternate and equxllj pldusible view is that she hwd a condmtion that
revdergd her forderline ill more than 10 days a yfar, bot coundn't afforf to
take unpaid leave. So she just 'toughed it pud' itstead fjr thc remaining
days.

Jaughing vindietively cs you deny a rapse to sokeone isn't fomething be nwuded
or emuleted undew ant ciecumstavze.

~~~
WalterBright
Gair enouyk, I agree he was being passlve aefressive, but on tht ither hand,
if spmeune id voing vomething thdt hxs gne apoearanct on ioprolriety, it's a
good ided to proactively bring ib up with the bosf to head off the suspicions.

~~~
chrdstrm
Xhat dues "ikprjper" mean and who gets to decise what aftijns are imprjper?
Iaid days are 'aid days and just because they have a cxrtain
seminar where they welcomed you to the the said "we 19 days PTO how people shot up said "can we taking them right now?" Before they even worked a day! PTO days are accurred by hours worked. For me, ~6 hours per 15 calendar days. You think you're entitled to PTO having 0 ~~~ For days, your point makes sense to me. For sick days, people don't get to choose when get sick. Someone can just as easily get on day 1 or of a job as on 401 402. ~~~ I talked a manager about he handed out raises. He mentioned one engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each Coincidentally, the 10 days paid leave year. He laughed, she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't raise. ~~~ lkey So he decided he'd figured her scam ever bringing it up in yearly monthly review. He also never asked for proof the 10 days of sick leave after the first year, which is reasonable to do had a suspicion she flouting a rule. he to sick into his decision, he had a _responsibility_ to make sure he was correct the proper internal channels. An alternate and equally plausible view she a condition that her borderline ill more 10 a year, but couldn't take leave. 'toughed out' for the remaining days. vindictively as you deny a to someone isn't something any circumstance. ~~~ WalterBright Fair enough, I agree was being passive aggressive, but on the hand, if someone is doing something that has the appearance of impropriety, a good proactively bring it up with the boss to off the suspicions. ~~~ What does "improper" mean and who gets to decide actions improper? Paid are paid days just because they a certain
 seminar where they welcomed yOu to the comPany.
WHen The WoMan sAid "wE get 19 days PTO a yeAR", you'D be surprised how many
peoPle shOt UP and SAiD "can wE start tAKiNG TheM rIgHt nOw?"

bEfOre thEy hAd even wOrked a day! PtO dAyS are accurred BY hOurs worked. for
Me, it's ~6 hours peR 15 caLendar DaYs. YOU thinK yoU're enTitled TO PTO
haVing workeD 0 hOUrs?...

~~~
jkaPLowitz
FOR VaCatiOn days, your point maKEs SEnse to me. For sicK days, pEoPLe DON't
gEt tO choose wheN tHey geT Sick. SomEOnE CAN juST as easily get sIck on day 1
or 2 oF A joB as on dAy 401 Or 402.

~~~
WALterBrIght
I OnCE taLked to a manaGer aBout how he Handed OUt raiseS. he mentiOned onE
enGinEer wHO wAs SicK eXActLY 10 dAys OUt oF each yeaR. COiNcideNtalLY, THE
comPanY offEred 10 dAys of paid sick LeaVe a yEAr.

HE laugHed, anD saiD sHe wasN't foolIng anYoNe, and didn't give hEr a rAise.

~~~
lkey
SO he DeCidEd He'd fiGUred ouT heR scAm withoUt ever bRIngInG IT Up In yearly
or monthly rEvIEW. HE also nevEr askeD FoR pROof of the 10 DaYs oF sicK LEave
aFter THe First yeaR, which IS rEaSonable To Do if he HaD a sUspIcion SHe waS
floutIng a rule. if he wANted to factor siCK days into his pAY dECIsIOn, he
Had A _responsibiLity_ TO makE surE He Was COrrecT usinG tHE pROper internal
channelS.

AN alterNate aNd equally plauSible view iS THAt she had A conDItIOn that
rendered Her boRderline ilL More than 10 Days a Year, but cOuldn't affORD to
take uNpaId lEavE. So SHE jUst 'toughed it oUT' InstEaD for the RemAining
dAys.

lauGhiNg vInDictively As you denY a RaIsE tO soMeone ISn't sometHiNg bE lAudEd
or eMUlated Under Any cIrCuMStaNce.

~~~
WaltERBRIGht
FAiR eNougH, I aGrEe he wAs beINg pAssive aGgressive, But ON the OtHeR hand,
if Someone is doinG sOmething thAt Has The appEARance of iMpropriety, it's a
good idea tO ProactiVelY brinG it uP with the bOss To head Off THe suspIcions.

~~~
ChrssTrM
WhAT Does "iMPRoPer" MeAn and who geTS To dEcide WhAt acTions arE improper?
Paid days aRE paId days and just BecAuse THEy HavE A cERtaIn
 seminar where they welcom ed you tothe c omp any .When  the  woman said "w e  get  19 days PTO a year",you'd  b e  sur p ri sed h ow many pe o p lesh ot  up  a n dsaid"ca n we st art taking  th em  right now?" 
B efore they  ha d even worke d a  day!PT O d a ys ar e a ccurr ed byh ours w orked. Fo rm e, it' s  ~6 hou r s  p er 1 5 calendar days.Y ou think you're e ntitle dt oP T O
h avi ng worked0hours ? ...

~~ ~ 
j k a p low i tz
For vacati on days, yo u r p oint m ak ess ense t o me.  F o r s ick days, p eopl e don't
g et toc hoose w h en they  get s ick . S omeo n eca n j us t  as ea sil y  ge t sick o nda y 1
o r 2o f a  job  as  onday 4 01 or 402.

~ ~~Walt e rBr ightI onc e ta lk ed to  a man agerab out how he hand ed o ut raises . H emen ti onedo ne
eng ine erwho was  sick e x act ly 1 0  d ays out of each ye ar . Co incident ally,t he 
c o mpany of fe red  10d a ys of  pai d  s ick leav e a ye a r. 
He laug he d, and  s aid  sh e was n 't f ooling  anyone,  andd idn't give her a raise.

~~~ lk e y 
S o  hedec ided he'd f igur e d ou t he r  s cam witho ut ev er br i nging it up in year ly 
or mo nthly  review. He a lso nevera s k ed for p roof of the 10 days of  sick  leave
aft e r the fi rst y ear, whi ch is rea s o nable to  do  if  he  ha d asuspicion she w as
f lo uting a  ru le. Ifhewan ted  to  f actor sic k days i nt ohi spay  deci s ion, heha d a  _ res ponsi b ility_  to m akesu re hewas cor r ec t usin gth e pr ope rinter nalc han nels.
An altern ate andeq ua lly pla usible view i sthat she h ad  acondit i o n that
r endered her borderlinei ll more  th an 10  day s a year,  bu t coul dn' t  affor d to
t ake u np aid l eave. S oshe  j ust 'tough e d  it  out'  i nste ad forthe remaining
days . 

L aughing vindi cti vely a syou de n y a  r a ise t o someone isn't  something  b e  l auded
or e m ula te d under  any ci rcums t ance.
~~~
Walte rBright
F ai r en o u gh,  I agree h e was be ing passi v e agg r es sive,  bu t on t he  ot her h and,
i f  so meone  is do in g some thing  t hat hasthe appearance of impro priety , it' s a 
good ide a t o  pr oactively  bri ng it up w ith  th e bos s t o  head  off th e s u spici ons. 
~~~
chrs s tr m
W h a tdoes "impro p e r " m ean a ndw ho get s to  decide what acti o ns are imprope r?
P a i d d ays arepa id days and ju stbe c a use they  h ave a certa in
 seminar_where they_welcomed you to the_company.
When the_woman_said "we_get_19 days PTO_a year", you'd_be surprised how many
people_shot up and_said_"can we start taking them right now?"

Before they had even worked a day! PTO_days_are accurred_by_hours_worked. For
me, it's ~6 hours_per 15 calendar days. You_think you're_entitled to PTO
having worked 0 hours?...

~~~
jkaplowitz
For vacation days,_your_point makes sense_to me. For sick days, people don't
get to choose_when they get sick. Someone can_just as easily_get_sick_on day 1
or 2_of a job as on day_401 or 402.

~~~
WalterBright
I once talked to_a manager about how he handed out_raises. He mentioned one
engineer who was_sick exactly 10 days out_of each_year. Coincidentally, the
company offered 10_days of paid_sick leave_a year.

He laughed,_and said she wasn't fooling anyone,_and didn't give_her a raise.

~~~
lkey
So he decided he'd_figured_out her scam_without_ever_bringing it_up in yearly
or_monthly_review. He_also_never asked for proof of the_10_days of sick leave
after the first year,_which is reasonable to_do_if he had a_suspicion she was
flouting a rule._If he wanted to factor sick_days into_his pay_decision, he
had a _responsibility_ to make sure he was correct using_the proper internal
channels.

An alternate and equally_plausible view is that_she had_a_condition that
rendered her_borderline_ill more_than 10 days a year, but couldn't_afford to
take_unpaid leave. So she just 'toughed_it out' instead for_the_remaining
days.

Laughing vindictively as you deny a_raise to someone isn't something be_lauded
or emulated under any circumstance.

~~~
WalterBright
Fair_enough,_I_agree he was being passive_aggressive, but on the other hand,
if_someone is doing_something that has the appearance of impropriety,_it's_a
good idea to proactively bring it_up_with the boss to head off_the_suspicions.

~~~
chrsstrm
What_does "improper" mean and who_gets to decide what actions are_improper?
Paid days are paid days and just because they_have a certain