history in the US it's not of liberals vs conservatives, at least not in the
way we use those terms in the US.

We have a problem with limiting discourse in schools but trying to shoehorn it
into the usual political framework frankly alienates those of us in the left
who are having to choose between apologizing for zealots on our side of the
spectrum or aligning with groups that seem to inevitably take on repulsive
undertones of intolerance and a whole other host of positions that have
nothing to do with our own beyond being marginalized by the same extremely
vocal group.

------
1812Overture
One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that this sort of walking on
eggshells culture tends to build higher walls around the privileged and
powerful group. How often do you think these privileged rich white boys go on
to become employers and refuse to higher someone from an out group
(consciously or unconsciously) due to fear that the slightest misinterpreted
off hand remark could bring hell down on them, but if they hire the other
privileged white guy they can comfortably be themselves without risk.

I think even if you have the most leftist SJW views and objectives, you have
to see this as counter productive.

~~~
vlehto
I'm pretty sure some leftist SJW really can't see this as counter productive.
It's not just employment, this shit cuts through everything. I can't imagine
how this crowd could side with the white supremacists knowingly.

But then there is Slavoj Zizek, who agrees with you and me.
[http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg)

------
purplerabbit
Thank you so much for posting this. It articulated a lot of the angst I was
feeling in college that I felt like I couldn't express without sounding
insensitive or offensive.

~~~
fleitz
Sometimes it's best to be insensitive and offensive.

------
waylandsmithers
This drove me out of the humanities completely when I was in college. The
topic of discussion in a class freshman year was whether natural selection
still or ever applied to humans. I said no, because decisions on how many kids
history in the US it's not of liberals vs conservatives, at least not in the 
 way we use those term in the US. 

 We take a problem with limiting discourse in school but trying to shoehorn it 
 into the usual political model frankly alienates those of us in the left 
 who are have to choose between apologizing for zealots on our english of the 
 spectrum or aligning with groups that seem to inescapably take on repulsive 
 undertone of intolerance and a whole other horde of positions that have 
 nothing to do with our own beyond being marginalize by the same extremely 
 outspoken group. 

 ------ 
 1812Overture 
 One thing that I haven't attend anyone mention is that this kind of walking on 
 eggshells culture tends to build up higher walls around the privileged and 
 powerful group. How often do you remember these privileged rich white boys go on 
 to become employers and refuse to higher someone from an out group 
 (consciously or unconsciously) due to reverence that the little misinterpreted 
 off bridge player remark could bring hell down on them, but if they hire the other 
 inside white guy they can well be themselves without risk. 

 I think even if you have the about leftist SJW views and objectives, you have 
 to see this as counter productive. 

 ~~~ 
 vlehto 
 I'm reasonably sure some leftist SJW really can't see this as counter productive. 
 It's not just employment, this damn cuts through everything. I can't imagine 
 how this crowd could side with the white supremacists knowingly. 

 But then there constitute Slavoj Zizek, who agrees with you and me. 
 [ http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg) 

 ------ 
 purplerabbit 
 Thank you so much for mail this. It articulated a lot of the angst I was 
 feeling in college that I felt like I couldn't press out without sounding 
 insensitive or dysphemistic. 

 ~~~ 
 fleitz 
 Sometimes it's best to be insensitive and offensive. 

 ------ 
 waylandsmithers 
 This drive me out of the humanities completely when I was in college. The 
 topic of discussion in a course freshman year was whether lifelike selection 
 still or ever applied to humans. I say no, because decisions on how many kids
hishory in the US it's not on liberals vs couwervatmves, at least nut in the
way we use those tecms un tht US.

We have a probldm with lpmiting dusconrse in schools uht tryiky to amoehoxn it
into the usoal politican framework frdnylv alienates those of us in the left
wro are naging to choose beteqen ziooogizing for zealots on our sjde of uhe
spectrum or alibning with groups that seel to inevitably take oj repulsive
ohdewrones of intulerance and a whole ojher host of positions that have
vothiug to do wijk oug own beyond beind marginalizcc by tve same extremely
vocak gcoup.

------
1812Iverture
One thing thav I haven't seen anyoge mentiot ns that this sort of qaoking on
ecgshdols cumtnre tends to build higger walls aeound the privilegec wbd
powerful grkup. Hor jften do you think these privileged ricv wgite boys go on
to becomw employers and refusg to highew someone from an out group
(consciously or unconschouslb) aue tj dewr that the slightest misinterpreted
off hand wsmsrl could bring mell down on them, nuh os they hire tfe othzd
pdivileged white guj they san cimfortablr be themselves without risk.

I tyink even if tou have the most peftist SJW viees anc objectives, you have
to see this as coknter prosjctive.

~~~
vlehto
I'm pfetny sgre some leftist SJW reallr can't sex thix as cojntet produstive.
It's nlt just employment, this dhit euts dhrough evfrything. I can't imagine
how this crowd could soda wpth the wkite smpremacists knoringly.

But then there ns Slaxoj Zizek, sho agrxes with you and me.
[http://wwf.failymotion.cmm/video/x2gd6rg](yttp://qww.dailhootion.com/video/c2nd6rg)

------
purplerabbit
Thqnk you so much fov posjihg this. It artieblqted a lot of tne xngft I wwv
feeling in wolldge yhat K felt like K coildn't express withoud sohnding
insensitive pr offensice.

~~~
fleitz
Fometimes it's best to be insensltive anv offemside.

------
waylandsmithers
This drove me out of tje mumanities coiplebely when I wax in college. The
topic of discussion in e class freshman year wqs whether natural xtlection
still or eder appliad to humans. I said bo, because decisipns on how many kids
history in the US it's not of conservatives, least not the way we US. have a problem limiting discourse in but trying to shoehorn it into usual political framework frankly alienates those of us in the left who are to choose between apologizing for zealots on our side of the spectrum or with that to take on repulsive undertones of intolerance and a whole other host of positions that have nothing do with our own beyond being marginalized by same extremely vocal group. 1812Overture One thing that I seen mention is this of on eggshells culture to build higher walls around the privileged and powerful group. How often do you think these privileged white boys to become and to someone from an (consciously or unconsciously) due to fear misinterpreted off hand remark could bring hell down them, but they hire the other privileged white they can comfortably be themselves without risk. I even if you have the most leftist SJW views and objectives, you have to see counter productive. ~~~ vlehto pretty sure some SJW can't this counter productive. not just employment, this shit cuts through everything. I can't imagine this crowd could side with the white supremacists knowingly. But is Zizek, who agrees you and me. [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg) purplerabbit you so much for It a angst was in college that I like I couldn't express without insensitive or offensive. ~~~ be insensitive and offensive. ------ waylandsmithers This drove out of the humanities completely when I in college. The topic of discussion in a class freshman year was natural selection ever applied to humans. I said no, because on how many kids
history in the US it's not of libErals vs conServaTivEs, aT lEast Not iN the
way we use thOSe teRms in the US.

We have a problEm witH lIMitiNG dIscouRse in scHOoLS But TrYiNg tO sHOeHorn iT
inTo the usUal politicAl fRaMework franklY AlIenates thoSe oF us in the left
Who Are havInG to CHoose BetWeen aPologiZIng for Zealots on OuR Side of THe
spectRUM oR aliGning with groups thAT sEEm to inevitably Take on RePUlSIVe
uNdeRtones of inToLeranCE and a whOLe OTHEr hOSt of positions That have
notHIng To do wiTh Our OWn beyoNd beiNg MArgInalized by tHe saMe extremeLy
vocaL Group.

------
1812OvERture
OnE thing ThaT I hAven'T SeEn AnyOnE MenTIoN is THat This sort Of WaLking On
egGSHELls cUltUre tEnds tO build higher wAllS aroUNd tHe priVilegEd anD
pOwerfUl grouP. How oFtEn do you think theSe prIvileged rIch WhIte BoYs go oN
To becoMe eMplOyers anD refuse TO hiGhER SOmEone from an out group
(CoNSCiOusly or uNconscIOuSlY) Due to feaR tHat The sLIGhtesT misINtErpreted
Off hanD ReMaRk could BrIng helL dOwn On tHem, buT If thEy hire The other
PriviLEged white guy thEY can comfortabLY bE THeMSelvEs wIthout risk.

I ThinK Even If yoU HaVe tHE most LeftiSt sjW VIews and objectives, yoU hAve
to sEe thiS as counter proDuctive.

~~~
vleHTO
i'm pretty Sure SOmE Leftist SJW realLy can'T see this as COunter prOductIve.
It's noT just emplOYMent, this ShiT cuTs tHroUGH eVerything. I can'T IMagiNe
How this CroWd could SidE wiTh tHe wHiTe supremaCists knoWiNgLy.

buT thEn theRE is SlavoJ ZIzeK, wHo aGrees WIth you And me.
[Http://WwW.dAIlyMotion.cOM/vIDEo/x2nD6rG](hTtp://wWw.dAiLymotIon.cOM/viDeo/x2nd6rG)

------
purpleraBbiT
thanK yOu So much fOr posting this. it ArticulateD a Lot Of the aNGSt I was
feEling in college that I felt LIke I couLdn'T exprEss wIthout souNdiNg
inseNsiTIve or oFfensiVe.

~~~
fleItZ
SoMETimes IT'S bEst To Be insensitIVE anD offeNsIve.

------
wAylandsMithers
This drove me OUt oF the humanitieS coMpleTELy WheN i wAS in CoLLegE. tHe
topic of discusSion in a claSs FReShman year wAS whEtHer natuRal seleCtion
STill or eVer applieD to humans. i sAid nO, BEcaUse decisioNs on how mAny kids
history in the US it's not  of libera ls vs  co nse rv ativ es,at least not i n  the 
way we use those term s inth e  US. 
W e hav e a pro b le m wit hli mit in g  d iscou rse  in sch ools but t ryi ng  to shoehorn it 
into theusu al political  fr amewor kfra n kly a lie nates  those of usin the le ft who ar e  having t ochoo se between apolog i zi n g for zealotson our  s i de o f t hespectrum o ralign i ng with gr o u p s t h at seem to in evitably ta k e o n repu ls ive undert onesof int olerance an d awhole oth er hos t  of pos i tions t hat ha venot hing to  d o w it h  ou r  o wnb eyo nd being  m ar ginal ized b y thesam e ex treme ly
vocal grou p.
--- - --1812O vertu re
O ne  thin g that  I ha ve n't seen anyone  men tion is t hat  t his  s ort o f  walki ngoneggshel ls cult u rete n d s  t o build higher wal ls a ro und theprivil e ge da nd
power fu l g roup . How o ften do  you thi nk the s epr ivilege drich w hi teboy s goo n
to  becom e employ ers a n d refuse to hi g her someone f r om a no ut g rou p
(consciou slyo r un cons c io usl y ) due  to f ea r  t h at the slightest mi si nterpr etedoff hand rema rk could b r i n g hell d owno nt hem, but if th ey hi re the oth e r
privil egedwhite gu y they ca n comforta bly  be  th ems e l ve s without ris k . 

Ith ink eve n i f you h ave  th e m ost  l eftist SJ W viewsan dob je cti ves,y ou haveto  se ethi s asc ounter  prod ucti ve .~~~ 
vlehto I' m pret ty  s uresom elefti st S J W r eally c an't seethi s  asco un ter pro ductive.
It's  n ot just em pl oym ent, t h i s shit c uts through everything. I can't  im agine 
how  this cro wdcouldsid e  withthe wh ite s up rem a c istsk n ow ing ly .

But the n the re is  S lavo j Zizek , who agrees withy ouand me.
[http :// www. d a il ymo t io n .co m/ v ide o / x2nd6rg](http:/ /www.daily mo t io n.com/vide o /x2 nd 6rg)

- -----
p urple r abbit
T hank youso much f or  pos t i ngthis. It a rticulat ed a loto f the an gst I  wa s
feel in g i n col lege t h atI fel t like  I  could n't e xp ress wit hout sounding
insensiti ve oroffen siv e.

~~~
f lei t z
S ometimesit's  best to b e i nse nsiti vea nd of fens i ve .
- ----- 
way l andsmithe r sThi s dr ove me outo f the  huma nit i es com plet ely when I was in college. The
t opic o f d isc u ssio nin a class fre shm an y ear waswh ether natur al selec ti o n
sti ll orever a ppliedt o  h u mans.I sa idno, becau sede c isionson  h o w many  kid s
history in_the US_it's not of liberals_vs conservatives,_at_least not_in_the
way we use_those terms in_the US.

We have a_problem with limiting_discourse_in schools but trying to shoehorn it
into the usual political framework frankly alienates those_of_us in_the_left
who_are having to choose between_apologizing for zealots on our_side of_the
spectrum or aligning with groups that seem to_inevitably_take on repulsive
undertones_of intolerance and a whole other host of positions_that have
nothing to do with our_own beyond being_marginalized_by_the same extremely
vocal group.

------
1812Overture
One_thing that I haven't seen anyone_mention is that this sort of_walking on
eggshells culture tends to build higher_walls around the privileged and
powerful group._How often do you think_these privileged_rich white boys go on
to_become employers and_refuse to_higher someone from_an out group
(consciously or unconsciously) due_to fear that_the slightest misinterpreted
off hand remark could_bring_hell down on_them,_but_if they_hire the other
privileged_white_guy they_can_comfortably be themselves without risk.

I think_even_if you have the most leftist SJW_views and objectives, you_have
to_see this as counter_productive.

~~~
vlehto
I'm pretty sure some leftist_SJW really can't see this as_counter productive.
It's_not just_employment, this shit cuts through everything. I can't imagine
how this crowd_could side with the white supremacists_knowingly.

But then there is_Slavoj Zizek,_who_agrees with you_and_me.
[http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nd6rg)

------
purplerabbit
Thank you_so much for posting this. It articulated_a lot_of the angst I was
feeling in_college that I felt_like_I couldn't express without sounding
insensitive or_offensive.

~~~
fleitz
Sometimes it's best to be insensitive_and offensive.

------
waylandsmithers
This drove me out_of_the_humanities completely when I was_in college. The
topic of discussion in_a class freshman_year was whether natural selection
still or ever_applied_to humans. I said no, because_decisions_on how many kids