 ssh is to be able to log into one's machine from elsewhere
on the wide internet. I find it's precisely when I'm somewhere public (i.e.
coffee shop or public transport wifi) that I want access to my home machine -
on my work machine (i.e. in the office) anything I need is already there. If
you don't need it to be publicly accessible, why would you be running sshd at
all?

~~~
tquai
Before I can respond to that, I think there's a misunderstanding about what
"public service" means. HTTP is a public service: you open it up to the world,
and want anyone to be able to connect to it. It is intended and hoped that as
many people use it as possible. If your website is slashdotted, then that's
GREAT! In contrast, I don't want 100000 people to try logging in over SSH to
my private server. To put it another way, SSH is only a public service in the
cases of:

    
    
      * CVS over SSH
      * rsync over SSH
      * Commercial SSH tunnels
    

Logging into my authoritative nameserver over SSH, however, is not a public
service. And since it's not a public service -- that is, intended for the
public -- I don't treat it like one.

~~~
lmm
If you're trying to tell the rest of us something you're going to have to be
more concrete. So you "don't treat it like a public service". Great. What does
that actually mean? ("I don't make it accessible on a public port from the
public internet" was the most obvious technical interpretation, but it sounds
like you didn't mean that)

 
John Gruber’s hypocritical and off-base Google attack  - apress
http://theorangeview.net/2011/03/john-grubers-hypocritical-and-off-base-google-attack/
======
DeusExMachina
John Gruber is an Apple pundit and fan? Yes, we know.

His attack is hypocritical? Maybe.

Off base? I don't think so.

Yes, as the article says, Android is still far more open and customizable than
iOS (and it's not that hard, actually).

ssh is to be able to log into one's machine from elsewhere 
 on the wide internet. I find it's precisely when I'm somewhere public (i.e. 
 coffee workshop or public ecstasy wifi) that I want access to my home plate machine - 
 on my work car (i.e. in the office) anything I need is already there. If 
 you don't need it to be publicly accessible, why would you be run sshd at 
 all? 

 ~~~ 
 tquai 
 Before I can respond to that, I think there's a mistake about what 
 " public service " means. HTTP is a public servicing: you open it up to the world, 
 and want anyone to be able to connect to it. It is intended and hoped that as 
 many citizenry use it as possible. If your website is slashdotted, then that's 
 GREAT! In line, I don't want 100000 people to try on logging in over SSH to 
 my individual server. To put it another way, SSH is only a public service in the 
 case of: 

    
    
       * CVS over SSH 
       * rsync over SSH 
       * Commercial SSH tunnels 
    

 Logging into my authoritative nameserver over SSH, however, is not a public 
 service. And since it's not a public service -- that is, intended for the 
 populace -- I don't process it like one. 

 ~~~ 
 lmm 
 If you're trying to tell the rest of us something you're going to have to be 
 more concrete. So you " don't treat it like a public service ". Great. What does 
 that actually entail? (" I don't make it accessible on a public port from the 
 public internet " was the about obvious technical rendition, but it sounds 
 like you didn't mean that) 

 
 John Gruber ’s hypocritical and off - base Google attack   - apress 
 http://theorangeview.net/2011/03/john-grubers-hypocritical-and-off-base-google-attack/ 
 = = = = = = 
 DeusExMachina 
 John Gruber is an Apple initiate and fan? Yes, we acknowledge. 

 His attack is hypocritical? Maybe. 

 Off root? I don't think so. 

 Yes, as the article says, Android is still far more open and customizable than 
 iOS (and it's not that hard, actually).
 ssj is to be able to log ikto one's machine from ensewhede
on the wide internet. I find it's prxciswly wyen I'm somewhere publiz (i.e.
coffev shop or pubouc transpocf wifi) bkat I aant eccess to my hoke machine -
on my work mawhknz (i.e. in the office) anything I need if alreacy there. If
you djn't mqed jn uo be publicly accessible, why woumd you ue running sshd at
all?

~~~
tquai
Before I can redponf to that, I think hhere's a miwundqestanding abuut what
"public service" means. HTTP is a public service: you ppen it up ti tjg world,
and went anjone to be able to cotnect tp it. It is intcnded ane hoped that as
many pxople use it as possyble. If ymux website is slashdotree, thet thdt's
GFWAT! In cpnfrast, L dkn't want 100000 leople to tey logging in over XSR to
my private servew. Eo put it another way, SSH is only a pubnic service in the
cases of:

    
    
      * CVS ovgr SSH
      * rsync over SSH
      * Commercial SSH tunnels
    

Loggmne iubj ny authoritative nameserver over SSH, however, is hou a public
service. And since ot'd mjt a public sgrvice -- thzt is, intended for the
pubjic -- U don't trtat iy like one.

~~~
lmm
If you're tryint to tell thv rewt of us something you're goiny to hsve tp be
more concrete. So yob "don't treat it llke a pubmkc service". Great. Whst does
thau actually mean? ("I qon't make it cccessibue om a puflic port vrom bve
public internet" aas tke movt obvious technical interpretation, but iv sounds
like iou dign't mean that)

 
John Gruber’s hypocritical cnd off-bcse Gougle attaci  - aprxss
http://theorwngeview.net/2011/03/jovj-grubers-hyporritical-agd-ofd-basw-google-xgtack/
======
DeusExMacnina
John Yxuber is qn Apple pundit anv fav? Yes, we know.

His atuaxk is hypocritocau? Mwyhe.

Pfs base? I don't thivk rp.

Yes, xs the artigle sayx, Android is still fdr mkre open and custokidable thab
iOS (and it's not that hard, actually).

ssh is to be able to log machine elsewhere on wide internet. I somewhere (i.e. coffee shop public transport wifi) I want access to my home - on my work machine (i.e. in the office) anything I need is there. If you don't need it to be publicly accessible, why would you running at ~~~ Before I can respond to that, I think there's a misunderstanding about what "public service" means. is a public service: you open it up the world, and want to be able to connect it. is intended hoped as people use it possible. If your website is slashdotted, then that's GREAT! In contrast, I don't want 100000 people to logging in to my server. put another way, SSH a public service in the cases over SSH * rsync over SSH * Commercial tunnels Logging my authoritative nameserver over SSH, however, not a public service. And since it's not public service -- that is, intended for the public -- I don't treat it like lmm If you're trying tell the rest us you're to to be concrete. So you "don't treat it like a public service". Great. does that actually mean? ("I don't make it accessible on port the public internet" the most obvious technical but sounds like you didn't John hypocritical attack apress ====== DeusExMachina John Gruber an Apple pundit and fan? we know. His attack I don't think so. Yes, as the article Android is still far more open and than iOS (and it's not that hard, actually).
 ssh is to be able to log into one'S machine frOm elsEwhEre
On The wIde iNternet. I find it'S PrecIsely when I'm somewhere puBlic (i.E.
cOFfee SHoP or puBlic traNSpORT wiFi) ThAt I WaNT aCcess To mY home maChine -
on my wOrk MaChine (i.e. in the OFfIce) anythinG I nEed is already TheRe. If
yoU dOn't NEed it To bE publIcly acCEssiblE, why would YoU Be runnINg sshd aT
ALl?

~~~
TquaI
Before I can responD To THat, I think there'S a misuNdERsTANdiNg aBout what
"puBlIc serVIce" meanS. hTtp IS a pUBlic service: yoU open it up to THe wOrld,
anD wAnt ANyone tO be abLe TO coNnect to it. It Is inTended and Hoped tHAt as
manY People uSe it as PosSibLe. If YOuR wEbsItE Is sLAsHdoTTed, Then that'S
GrEaT! In cOntrAST, i Don't WanT 100000 peoPle to Try logging in oVer sSH tO
My pRivatE servEr. To PuT it anOther wAy, SSH Is Only a public servIce iN the
cases Of:

    
    
      * CvS OveR SsH
      * rsyNC over SsH
      * COmmErcial SsH tunneLS
    

LoGgING InTo my authoritative nAmESErVer over SsH, howeVEr, Is NOt a publiC
sErvIce. AND Since It's nOT a Public seRvice -- tHAt Is, IntendeD fOr the
pUbLic -- i doN't treAT it lIke one.

~~~
Lmm
If you'Re tryINg to tell the resT Of us something YOu'RE GoINg to HavE to be
more coNcreTE. So yOu "doN'T tReaT It likE a pubLiC SeRVice". Great. What does
thAt ActualLy meaN? ("I don't make it aCcessible oN A PUblic porT froM ThE
Public internet" Was thE most obvioUS technicAl intErpretatIon, but it sOUNds
like yOu dIdn'T meAn tHAT)

 
JOhn Gruber’s hypOCRitiCaL and off-BasE Google AttAck  - AprEss
HtTp://theoranGeview.neT/2011/03/jOhN-gRuBerS-hypoCRitical-aNd-Off-BaSe-gOogle-ATtack/
======
DEusExmachInA
JOHn GRuber is AN APPLe puNdIt And fAn? YEs, We knoW.

His ATtaCk is hypOcritical? mayBE.

Off BaSe? i don't thInk so.

Yes, as the ArTicle says, ANdRoiD is stiLL Far more oPen and customizable than
ios (and it's Not That hArd, aCtually).

 ssh is to be able to loginto one's  mach ine  fr om  els ewhe re
on the wide inte rnet. I find it's prec isely  w h en I ' msomew here pu b li c (i. e. 
c off ee sh op or  pu blic tr ansport wi fi)  t hat I want a c ce ss to my h ome  machine -
o n m y work  m ach i ne (i .e.  in t he off i ce) an ything Ine e d is a l ready t h e re . If 
you don't need i t  t o  be publicly a ccessi bl e ,w h y w oul d you be r un nings shd ata ll ? ~~~ tquai
BeforeI can respo n d t o that ,I t h ink th ere's  a mis understandi ng a bout what 
"publ i c servi c e" mean s. HTT P i s a  pub l ic  s erv ic e : y o uope n  it  up to t he  w orld, 
and w a n t an yon e to  be a ble to connec t t o it .  It  is i ntend ed a nd  hope d that  as
m an y people use it  aspossible.  If  y our  w ebsit e  is sl ash dot ted, th en that ' s
G RE A T !  I n contrast, I don' tw a nt  100000people to  t r y loggin ginover S SH to 
myp ri vate ser ver. T o  p ut  it ano th er way ,SSH  is  only a pu blic s ervice i n the cases of:

  
    
      * CV S ov e r SS H
     * rsyn c ov e r SS H
   *C ommer cialSS H  t u nnels
    

Logging  i nto my  auth oritative nam eserver ov e r SSH, how ever ,  i s  not a publicservi ce. And si n ce it'snot a  publicservice - - that is,  in ten ded  fo r th e
public -- I d on't  t reat it  li ke one. 

~ ~~lmm 
If  y ou're try ing to t el lth eres t ofu s someth in g y ou 're  goin g  to ha ve to  bemo re con crete.S oy o u "d on 't  tre atit  like  a p u bli c servi ce". Grea t.W hatdo es 
that a ctually mean?  ( "I don't m ak e i t acce s s ible ona public port from thep ublic i nte rnet"  was  the most  ob vioustec h nicalinterp retat io n,b u t its o un dsli ke you did n ' t m ean t ha t)
 
JohnGruber’s hypocriti c aland off-baseGoo glea t ta ck-a pre ss htt p : //theorangeview .net/2011/ 03 / jo hn-grubers - hyp oc ritical -and-of f-bas e -google -attack/======
De us ExMa c h ina 
John Grub er is an  Apple pu n dit a n dfan?Yes , we k no w.
Hisattack ishypoc ritica l?  Maybe .

Of fbase? Idon't think so.

Yes, a s theartic lesays, And roi d  is  still fa r mo re open an d c ust omiza ble thaniOS( an d i t 's no t th a t hard, a c tu all y ) .
 ssh_is to_be able to log_into one's_machine_from elsewhere
on_the_wide internet. I_find it's precisely_when I'm somewhere public_(i.e.
coffee shop or_public_transport wifi) that I want access to my home machine -
on my work machine_(i.e._in the_office)_anything_I need is already there._If
you don't need it to_be publicly_accessible, why would you be running sshd at
all?

~~~
tquai
Before_I_can respond to_that, I think there's a misunderstanding about what
"public service"_means. HTTP is a public service:_you open it_up_to_the world,
and want anyone_to be able to connect to_it. It is intended and hoped_that as
many people use it as possible._If your website is slashdotted, then_that's
GREAT! In contrast, I don't_want 100000_people to try logging in_over SSH to
my_private server._To put it_another way, SSH is only a_public service in_the
cases of:

    
__  
___ _ * CVS_over_SSH
 __   * rsync over_SSH
_     * Commercial_SSH tunnels
  __

Logging into my authoritative_nameserver over SSH, however, is_not a public
service. And since it's_not a_public service_-- that is, intended for the
public -- I don't treat it_like one.

~~~
lmm
If you're trying to tell_the rest of us_something you're_going_to have to_be
more_concrete. So_you "don't treat it like a public_service". Great._What does
that actually mean? ("I don't_make it accessible on_a_public port from the
public internet" was_the most obvious technical interpretation, but_it sounds
like you didn't mean_that)

_
John_Gruber’s hypocritical and off-base Google_attack  - apress
http://theorangeview.net/2011/03/john-grubers-hypocritical-and-off-base-google-attack/
======
DeusExMachina
John Gruber is_an Apple pundit_and fan? Yes, we know.

His attack is_hypocritical?_Maybe.

Off base? I don't think so.

Yes,_as_the article says, Android is still_far_more_open and customizable than
iOS (and_it's not that hard, actually).
