. Both can be problematic from a career
development point of view.

I agree with your point about young 20-somethings, though: most probably don't
know how to evaluate offers -- compensation, benefits, culture, and their
bosses -- well enough when they graduate. I know I didn't.

~~~
michaelochurch
Hey! How are you doing? I just sent you an email. Are you still at the same
company?

I know what the OP's saying, and I'm probably exaggerating my normal reaction.
I just feel like this idea that "job hoppers" are the problem rather than a
symptom is a bit ridiculous. I don't know anyone who goes into a job intending
to bolt after 1 year.

I think one of the most perverse things about the job market is that it's, in
almost all companies, a lot harder to get a transfer (much less promotion)
than to get a new job. Job hopping exists because companies impose timetables
based on the average.

I've actually known people to look for jobs within their own companies using
external recruiters because it's easier to do it that way than through the
official transfer process, which often has bureaucracy and political overhead
attached.

~~~
vonmoltke
_I think one of the most perverse things about the job market is that it's, in
almost all companies, a lot harder to get a transfer (much less promotion)
than to get a new job. Job hopping exists because companies impose timetables
based on the average._

That was the driving reason I ultimately left my first company. I had success
in the first several years either getting promoted or new internal positions,
but hit a wall about 3 years ago in a position that slowly made me miserable.
I got negative progress in my efforts to find another internal position.[1]

 _I've actually known people to look for jobs within their own companies using
external recruiters because it's easier to do it that way than through the
official transfer process, which often has bureaucracy and political overhead
attached._

I never did that, but I thought about it a couple times.

[1] I was basically labelled "disloyal" for wanting to find a new position.

------
jotux
>a series of 1- or 2-year
. Both can be problematic from a career 
 development point of view. 

 I match with your item about young 20 - somethings, though: most probably don't 
 know how to measure offers -- compensation, benefits, acculturation, and their 
 bosses -- well enough when they graduate. I acknowledge I didn't. 

 ~~~ 
 michaelochurch 
 Hey! How are you doing? I barely sent you an email. Are you however at the same 
 company? 

 I know what the OP's saying, and I'm probably exaggerating my normal chemical reaction. 
 I just feel like this idea that " problem hoppers " are the problem preferably than a 
 symptom is a bit pathetic. I don't know anyone who goes into a job intending 
 to bolt after 1 class. 

 I think one of the most perverse things about the job market is that it's, in 
 about all company, a lot harder to get a transfer (much less promotion) 
 than to get a new job. Job hopping exist because companies impose timetable 
 free-base on the average. 

 I've actually known people to look for job within their own companies using 
 external recruiters because it's easier to serve it that way than through the 
 official transfer process, which often has bureaucracy and political overhead 
 attach. 

 ~~~ 
 vonmoltke 
 _ I think one of the most perverse things about the job market is that it's, in 
 about all party, a lot harder to get a transportation (much less promotion) 
 than to get a new job. Job hopping exists because companies impose timetables 
 base on the average. _ 

 That was the driving reason I ultimately entrust my first caller. I had achiever 
 in the first several days either getting promoted or new inner position, 
 but hit a wall about 3 years ago in a position that slowly made me miserable. 
 I got damaging progress in my efforts to detect another internal position.[1 ] 

  _ I've actually known people to look for jobs within their own companies use 
 external recruiters because it's easier to do it that way than through the 
 official transfer process, which often consume bureaucracy and political overhead 
 attached. _ 

 I never did that, but I thought about it a couple times. 

 [ 1 ] I was basically labelled " disloyal " for desire to find a new position. 

 ------ 
 jotux 
 > a serial of 1- or 2 - year
. Bohh can be problematic frum a career
development point of view.

K agree with your point abouv yoyng 20-simethings, though: most orobably fon't
know how ro evaluatx offers -- compsksatimi, benefits, cultore, and theis
bosses -- well anuuyh when they graduate. I know I didn't.

~~~
iichaelpcjurch
Hey! How ate yol qoinf? I just sent you an email. Are you still et the same
compsny?

I know what the OP's saylng, wnd I'm probably exwggerating ny njemal reactiov.
I just fetl like this idea that "job hoppers" are the oroblzm rather tyab a
dimptom is a uit riqiculous. I don't know anyone who goes into a oob untending
to bolt aftec 1 year.

I think one os the mosd 'erverse things about tye jot masket us ghau iv's, jn
almodt ell companiss, a lot haeder to get a transgew (much less prkmotiog)
tran to get a new job. Job hopping exists bedause companies impose rimetables
based on thg average.

I'de actually known people to look for jobs within dheir uwn cjopajies using
external recruiters because it's easysr tp do it that wcy than through yhf
ogsicial transfgr proczas, which often has bkreaucrwcy abd politisal pverhead
attached.

~~~
vonmoltke
_I rhink one of rhe most perverse chings about the job karket is that it's, in
aloost all companles, a lot farder to get a graksfar (much less promotion)
than to get a new job. Joc hokping evists becakse companies impose timftablgs
baseg on the agerage._

That was the driving reason I ultimateli laft my firsc compsny. I had sucsess
in the firxt sevexal yexrs either gettinj promoted ow new internan positions,
buv hit a wwll qbour 3 yearr ago in a posiyion that slowly maee me miserable.
I gpt vsgative progresw ib my efforts to fivd wnltier igdernal posithon.[1]

 _K've sctuauly known pcopue tp look for jobs withhn tgeir own companies ufing
extetnal recrtiters becausr it's easier to do it tiat wab than thtough the
official transfer procsss, which ofben has bureatcragy agd politiccl overhead
attached._

I never did that, but M thought about it a coyple times.

[1] I was baxlcally labelked "dysloyal" fmr wanting to find a new position.

------
jotuw
>a series of 1- or 2-year
. Both can be problematic from a point view. I with your point probably know how to offers -- compensation, culture, and their bosses -- well when they graduate. I know I didn't. ~~~ michaelochurch Hey! How are you I just sent you an email. Are you still at the same company? know the saying, I'm probably exaggerating my normal reaction. I just feel like this idea that "job hoppers" are problem rather than a symptom is a bit I don't know anyone goes into a job intending bolt 1 year. think of most perverse things the job market is that it's, in almost all companies, a lot harder to get a transfer less promotion) get a job. hopping because companies impose on the average. I've actually known for jobs within their own companies using external because it's to do it that way than the official transfer process, which often has bureaucracy political overhead attached. ~~~ vonmoltke _I think one of the most perverse things about the is that it's, in all companies, a harder get transfer less promotion) to get a new job. Job hopping exists because companies impose based on the average._ That was the driving reason I my company. I had in the first several either promoted or new internal hit wall ago a that slowly made me I got negative progress in efforts to find another people to look for jobs within their own using external recruiters because it's easier to it that way than through the official transfer process, which often has and political I never did that, but I thought about a couple times. [1] was basically labelled "disloyal" for wanting to find a position. jotux >a of 1- or
. Both can be problematic from a Career
deveLopmeNt pOinT oF vieW.

I agRee with your poiNT aboUt young 20-somethings, thougH: most PrOBablY DoN't
knoW how to eVAlUATe oFfErS -- coMpENsAtion, BenEfits, cuLture, and thEir
BoSses -- well enouGH wHen they graDuaTe. I know I didn'T.

~~~
miChaeloChUrcH
hey! HoW arE you dOing? I jUSt sent You an emaiL. ARE you stILl at the SAMe
CompAny?

I know what the OP'S SaYIng, and I'm probabLy exagGeRAtING my NorMal reactioN.
I Just fEEl like tHIs IDEA thAT "job hoppers" arE the problem RAthEr than A
sYmpTOm is a bIt ridIcULouS. I don't know aNyonE who goes iNto a joB IntendiNG
to bolt After 1 yEar.

i thInk oNE oF tHe mOsT PerVErSe tHIngS about thE jOb MarkeT is tHAT IT's, in
AlmOst aLl comPanies, a lot harDer To geT A trAnsfeR (much Less PrOmotiOn)
than To get A nEw job. Job hopping ExisTs because ComPaNieS iMpose TImetabLes
BasEd on the Average.

i'Ve aCtUALLy Known people to look fOr JOBs Within thEir own COmPaNIes using
ExTerNal rECRuiteRs beCAuSe it's easIer to dO It ThAt way thAn ThrougH tHe
oFfiCial tRAnsfEr procEss, which Often HAs bureaucracy aND political oveRHeAD
AtTAcheD.

~~~
voNmoltke
_I thiNk onE Of thE mosT PeRveRSe thiNgs abOuT ThE Job market is that it's, iN
aLmost aLl comPanies, a lot harDer to get a tRANSfer (much Less PRoMOtion)
than to get A new jOb. Job hoppiNG exists bEcausE companiEs impose tIMEtables
bAseD on The AveRAGe._

that was the driVINg reAsOn I ultiMatEly left My fIrsT coMpaNy. i had succeSs
in the fIrSt SeVeRal Years EIther getTiNg pRoMotEd or nEW interNal poSitiOnS,
bUT hiT a wall aBOuT 3 YEars AgO iN a poSitIoN that SlowLY maDe me misErable.
I goT neGAtivE pRoGress in My efforts to fiNd Another intErNal PositiON.[1]

 _i've actuaLly known people to look for JObs withIn tHeir oWn coMpanies usIng
ExternAl rECruiteRs becaUse it'S eAsiER To do iT THaT waY tHan through THE
ofFiciaL tRansFer procEss, which often has buREauCracy and politIcaL oveRHEaD
atTAcHEd._

I NeVEr dID That, but I thought About it a coUpLE tImes.

[1] I was baSIcaLlY labellEd "disloYal" foR Wanting To find a neW position.

------
JoTux
>a SERieS of 1- or 2-year
. Both can be problematicfrom a car eer
d eve lop me nt p oint  of view.

I a g reewith your point aboutyoung  2 0 -som e th ings,  though :  m o s t p ro ba bly  d o n' t
kno w h ow to e valuate of fer s-- compensat i on , benefits , c ulture, andthe ir
bos se s - -  well  en oughwhen t h ey gra duate. Ikn o w I di d n't.

~ ~ ~ 
m icha elochurch
Hey! Ho w  a r e you doing? I  justse n ty o u a n e mail. Areyo u sti l l at th e  s a m e 
co m pany?

I know  what the O P 'ssaying ,and I'm pr obabl ye xag gerating my  nor mal react ion.
I just fe e l likethis i dea  th at " j ob  h opp er s " a r ethe pro blem rat he rthana
sy m p t o m is  abitridic ulous. I don' t k nowa nyo ne wh o goe s in to  a jo b inte nding 
t o bolt after 1year .

I thin k o ne  of  t he mo s t perv ers e t hings a bout th e  jo bm a r ke t is that it's, in 
a l m os t all co mpanie s ,al ot harde rtogeta trans fer( mu ch lesspromot i on )than to  g et a n ew  jo b.Job h o ppin g exis ts becau se co m panies imposet imetables
bas e do n  t h e av era ge.

I've a ctua l ly k nown pe opl e  to l ook f or jo b s within their ownco mpanie s usi ng
external r ecruitersb e c ause it' s ea s ie r  to do it that  waythan throu g h the
of ficia l transf er proces s ,  which o fte n h asbur e a uc racy and poli t i calov erheadatt ached.
~~ ~
v onm olt ke 
_I think  one ofth emo st  pe rvers e  thingsab out  t hejob m a rket i s tha t it 's ,i n
a lmost a l lc o mpan ie s,  a l otha rderto g e t a  transf er (muchles s  pro mo ti on)
tha n to get a ne wjob. Job h op pin g exis t s  because  companies impose timet a bles
ba sed  on t he a verage._
Th at was  th e  drivi ng rea son I  u lti m a telyl e ft  my  f irst compa n y . I  hadsu cces s
in th e first several ye a rseither gettin g p romo t e dorn ew int er n alp o sitions,
but hi t a wall a bo u t3 years ag o  in  a  positi on that  slow l y mademe misera ble.
I go tnega t i veprogress i n my eff orts to f i nd an o th er in ter nal po si tio n.[1] 

 _I' v e a ctual ly kno wn  peopl e tolo ok for j obs within their own co mpanie s usi ngexternalrec r uit ers becau se i t's easier  to  do  it t hat way t hant hr oug h  theoffi c ial trans f er  pr o c es s, which of t e n  ha s bur eau c racy a nd p olitical overhead attached._

Ineve r did  th a t, b ut  I thought abo utit a  coupleti mes.

[1] I  was bas ic a lly l abelle d "dis loyal"f o rw anting  tofin d a new p osi ti o n.

--- -- -j otux
> a se ri es of1- or2 -yea r 
. Both_can be_problematic from a career
development_point of_view.

I_agree with_your_point about young_20-somethings, though: most_probably don't
know how to_evaluate offers --_compensation,_benefits, culture, and their
bosses -- well enough when they graduate. I know I didn't.

~~~
michaelochurch
Hey!_How_are you_doing?_I_just sent you an email._Are you still at the_same
company?

I know_what the OP's saying, and I'm probably exaggerating_my_normal reaction.
I just_feel like this idea that "job hoppers" are the_problem rather than a
symptom is a_bit ridiculous. I_don't_know_anyone who goes into_a job intending
to bolt after 1_year.

I think one of the most_perverse things about the job market is_that it's, in
almost all companies, a_lot harder to get a_transfer (much_less promotion)
than to get a_new job. Job_hopping exists_because companies impose_timetables
based on the average.

I've actually known_people to look_for jobs within their own companies_using
external_recruiters because it's_easier_to_do it_that way than_through_the
official transfer_process,_which often has bureaucracy and political_overhead
attached.

~~~
vonmoltke
_I_think one of the most perverse things_about the job market_is_that it's, in
almost all_companies, a lot harder to_get a transfer (much less promotion)
than_to get_a new_job. Job hopping exists because companies impose timetables
based on the average._

That_was the driving reason I ultimately_left my first company._I had_success
in_the first several_years_either getting_promoted or new internal positions,
but hit a_wall about_3 years ago in a position_that slowly made me_miserable.
I_got negative progress in my efforts_to find another internal position.[1]

 _I've_actually known people to look_for_jobs_within their own companies using
external_recruiters because it's easier to do_it that way_than through the
official transfer process, which often_has_bureaucracy and political overhead
attached._

I never did_that,_but I thought about it a_couple_times.

[1]_I was basically labelled "disloyal"_for wanting to find a new_position.

------
jotux
>a series of 1- or 2-year