 gave you time to think and physically rest

I don't buy this argument, honestly. By extension, you're saying we should go
back to manual book-keeping instead of computers to do accounting, because it
would employ more accountants, and let them work at a more relaxed pace.

Looking up documentation, for example, is not an intellectually demanding
task. Instead of going back and forth between printed reference, being
distracted, forgetting what you read and having to re-check it, this helps
reduce the feedback loop and that makes work more intellectually engaging and
interesting because the worker can focus on things that actually require
thought, rather than menial tasks.

People will still take breaks and slack off, it's human nature, and they
should be able to, if you demand continued unbroken attention, you will end up
with people who make a lot more mistakes, I expect (citation needed).

I am much more worried about automated performance metrics and gamification of
work, those do offer levers for the employers to push the employees beyond
sane limits.

~~~
oliwarner
No, I think automation helps humanity a lot in certain places. But my
(tangential) experience and main concern really applies to healthcare.
Especially in the UK. I should have added this before but couldn't find the
words to explain it without going off on one.

To put it briefly, the utopian "we get to go home and see our kids on time"
world Augmedix is selling is just the sort of stuff that gets bought by the
NHS to make GPs handle double their workload.

There supposedly are protections in place (contracted _and_ EUWTD) to stop
doctors and nurses working without protected breaks, but you find me a single
competent (eg) med-reg who manages to regularly take theirs.

There _is_ a ton of quite low-hanging fruit... But half of it is a poison in
some professions and most of that relies on the reason it was bought.

Really, chasing this thought process can get pretty philosophical, especially
when you consider the widespread skills we have already lost because we
outsource and automate. They are things to consider too but immediately I'd
worry about the people being told their workload is doubling because they've
got a fancy gadget now.

------
gave you time to think and physically rest 

 I don't bribe this controversy, honestly. By extension, you're saying we should run 
 back to manual script - keeping instead of calculator to practice accounting, because it 
 would use more accountants, and let them sour at a more relaxed pace. 

 Looking up software documentation, for example, is not an intellectually demanding 
 task. Instead of going back and forth between printed reference, being 
 distracted, forget what you read and having to re - check it, this helps 
 abridge the feedback loop and that makes work more intellectually engaging and 
 interesting because the worker can concentrate on things that actually require 
 thought, rather than menial undertaking. 

 People will still take breaks and slack off, it's human nature, and they 
 should be able to, if you demand continued unbroken attention, you will end up 
 with people who make a lot more mistakes, I expect (citation needed). 

 I am much more disquieted about automated performance system of measurement and gamification of 
 workplace, those do offer levers for the employers to crusade the employees beyond 
 sane limits. 

 ~~~ 
 oliwarner 
 No, I think automation avail humanity a lot in certain places. But my 
 (tangential) experience and main concern actually applies to healthcare. 
 Especially in the UK. I should have added this before but couldn't find oneself the 
 bible to explain it without going off on one. 

 To put it briefly, the utopian " we get to function home and see our kids on time " 
 populace Augmedix is selling is just the sort of stuff that gets buy by the 
 NHS to make GPs treat double their workload. 

 There supposedly are protections in topographic point (contracted _ and _ EUWTD) to discontinue 
 doctors and nurse working without protect breaks, but you find me a single 
 competent (eg) med - reg who manages to regularly take theirs. 

 There _ is _ a long ton of quite low - hanging fruit... But half of it is a poison in 
 some professions and most of that relies on the reason it was bought. 

 Really, chasing this idea process can get reasonably philosophical, especially 
 when you consider the widespread skills we have already lost because we 
 outsource and automate. They are things to think too but immediately I'd 
 worry about the people being told their workload is doubling because they've 
 got a fancy gadget nowadays. 

 ------
 gage you time to think and physically resj

I don't uuy thia argumevt, honestly. By extension, you'ce sqying we should go
back to mxnual boon-keeping insuead of computers to do ageountjkg, beeanse it
would empkoy more awcountants, and ldt them work at a more relaxed pace.

Lojking ul focumentation, sor txaiple, ps not an intellectually demandjng
task. Instead of gping back and forth betweej prlnted reference, belng
distractgs, fjegetting whag you read and having jo re-check it, this helps
reduce tfe fezdback loop abd hvat makes wirk mjre intellecblally etgaging and
interestinn beceuse the worker can focus on things that acjually reqgixe
thought, rather than mwnial tasns.

Peuple wiml sfill twke breaks ans slack off, it's human nature, amd nney
should be able eo, if you demand continued unbroken attenuion, gou will end up
with people who make a lot mote mistakef, I expect (citation needed).

I am much more worried dbout xutimwgwd performance metrics and gamification of
work, egoxe do offer levevs for the employets tp push the empuoyees begond
sane limits.

~~~
oliaarner
Nj, I tyink autoiatipn helps humanity a lot in xertain placvs. Byt my
(tangential) ex'erience and maim convern really applies to kealthdare.
Especiaply in ths UK. I should havd acdad this before but couldn't find the
xords to expuain it wiehout goinh off on one.

To put it brlefly, tve utopian "we get to go home and see our kids on time"
wotld Aucmedix if selking is just ehe sort of stoff that yets buught by tge
NHS tm make GPs randle double jheir workloav.

There su[poswdly are prugections in plsce (contrceted _and_ WUWTD) to stop
doctovs ana nurses working wiuhiut protected nrexks, blt bou fytd me a singne
coopegrnt (ee) med-reg whi mansges to regularly tane tgeirs.

There _is_ a tom jf quite low-hangyng fruit... But half of it is a plison in
rome lrosessions and most of that reliss on the rewson it was fougmt.

Rewlly, chasiug this thought process can get pretty piilosophical, especialli
when you consider thg wldespread skmlls wq have alseady lost because ww
outsource and auuomate. They are things fo convider too but immediately I'd
worry about the people being told their workload iw doubling because theu've
gon a yancy gwdgev iow.

------
gave you time to think and physically don't this argument, By extension, you're to book-keeping instead of to do accounting, it would employ more accountants, and them work at a more relaxed pace. Looking up documentation, for example, is an intellectually demanding task. Instead of going back and forth between printed reference, distracted, what read having to re-check it, this helps reduce the feedback loop and that makes work more intellectually and interesting because the worker can focus on that actually require thought, than menial tasks. People will take and slack it's nature, they should be to, if you demand continued unbroken attention, you will end up with people who make a lot mistakes, I needed). I much worried automated performance metrics of work, those do offer levers to push the employees beyond sane limits. ~~~ No, I automation helps humanity a lot in places. But my (tangential) experience and main concern applies to healthcare. Especially in the UK. I should have added this before but couldn't words to explain it going off on To it the "we get go home and see our kids on time" world Augmedix is is just the sort of stuff that gets bought by to GPs handle double workload. There supposedly are in (contracted _and_ EUWTD) to and working but find a single competent (eg) who manages to regularly take There _is_ a ton half of it is a poison in some and most of that relies on the it was bought. Really, chasing this thought process can get pretty philosophical, when you widespread skills we have already lost because we and automate. They are to consider too but immediately I'd worry about the being their workload doubling because they've a fancy gadget ------
 gave you time to think and physIcally rest

i don't Buy ThiS aRgumEnt, hOnestly. By extenSIon, yOu're saying we should go
baCk to mAnUAl boOK-kEepinG insteaD Of COMpuTeRs To dO aCCoUntinG, beCause it
Would emploY moRe Accountants, aND lEt them work At a More relaxed pAce.

lookinG uP doCUmentAtiOn, for ExamplE, Is not aN intellecTuALly demANding
taSK. inSteaD of going back and foRTh BEtween printed rEferenCe, BEiNG
DisTraCted, forgetTiNg whaT You read ANd HAVIng TO re-check it, thiS helps
reducE The FeedbaCk LooP And thaT makeS wORk mOre intellecTualLy engaginG and
inTErestinG Because The worKer Can FocuS On ThIngS tHAt aCTuAllY ReqUire
thouGhT, rAther Than MENIAl taSks.

peopLe wilL still take breAks And sLAck Off, it'S humaN natUrE, and tHey
shoUld be AbLe to, if you demand ContInued unbrOkeN aTteNtIon, yoU Will enD up
WitH people Who make A Lot MoRE MIsTakes, I expect (citatiOn NEEdEd).

I am mucH more wORrIeD About autOmAteD perFORmancE metRIcS and gamiFicatiON oF
wOrk, thosE dO offer LeVerS foR the eMPloyErs to pUsh the emPloyeES beyond
sane limITs.

~~~
oliwarner
No, i ThINK aUTomaTioN helps humanIty a LOt in CertAIn PlaCEs. But My
(tanGeNTiAL) experience and main cOnCern reAlly aPplies to healtHcare.
EspecIALLy in the Uk. I shOUlD Have added this bEfore But couldn't FInd the
woRds to Explain iT without gOINg off on oNe.

TO puT it BriEFLy, The utopian "we gET To go HoMe and seE ouR kids on TimE"
woRld augMeDix is sellIng is jusT tHe SoRt Of sTuff tHAt gets boUgHt bY tHe
NhS to mAKe GPs hAndle DoubLe ThEIr wOrkload.

tHeRE SuppOsEdLy arE prOtEctioNs in PLacE (contraCted _and_ EUwTD) TO stoP
dOcTors and Nurses working WiThout proteCtEd bReaks, bUT You find mE a single
competent (eg) med-rEG who manAgeS to reGulaRly take thEirS.

There _Is_ a TOn of quIte low-HangiNg FruIT... but haLF Of It iS a Poison in
soME ProFessiOnS and Most of tHat relies on the reasON it Was bought.

RealLy, cHasiNG ThIs tHOuGHt pRoCEss CAN get pretty philoSophical, esPeCIaLly
when you COnsIdEr the wiDespreaD skilLS we have Already loSt because We
OutsOURce And automatE. They are Things to cONsideR ToO but iMmeDiatelY I'D
woRry abOut the PEopLe beiNg told ThEir worKload Is Doubling Because they've
got a fancy gAdget nOw.

------
 gave you time to think an d physical ly re st
Ido n'tbuythis argument, hone stly. By extension, yo u'resa y ingw eshoul d go
ba c kt o  ma nu al  bo ok - ke eping  in stead o f computer s t odo accountin g ,because it 
wo uld employ m ore  accou nt ant s , and  le t the m work at a m ore relax ed pace.Looking u pdocu mentation, for ex a mp l e, is not an i ntelle ct u al l y  de man ding
task.  I nstea d  of goi n gb a c k a n d forth betwe en printedr efe rence,  b ein g 
distr acted ,f org etting what  you  read and  havin g  to re- c heck it , this  he lps 
red u ce  t hefe e dba c kloo p  an d that m ak es  work  mor e i n tell ect uall y eng aging and
int ere stin g  be cause  thework er  canfocuson th in gs that actuall y re quire
tho ugh t,  ra th er th a n meni altas ks.

Pe ople wi l l s ti l l ta ke breaks and slac ko f f,  it's hu man na t ur e, and they 
s hou ld b e ableto,i fyou dema nd con t in ue d unbro ke n atte nt ion , y ou wi l l en d up
w ith peop le wh o  make a lot mo r e mistakes, I ex p e ct (cit ati on needed). 

Ia m mu ch m o re  wo r riedabout  a u to m ated performance me tr ics an d gam ification ofwork, thos e d o offerleve r sf or the employe rs to  push thee mployees  beyo nd
sanelimits.
~ ~ ~
oliwar ner 
No , I  th i n kautomation he l p s hu ma nity alot  in cer tai n p lac es.  B ut my
(ta ngential )ex pe ri enc e and main con ce rnre all y app l ies to  heal thca re .E spe ciallyi nt h e UK .Ishou ldha ve ad dedt his  before  but coul dn' t  fin dth e
words  to explain i twithout go in g o ff ono n e.

To p ut it briefly, the utop i an "weget  to g o ho me and se e o ur kid s o n  time" 
world  Augm ed ixi s  sell i n gisju st the sor t ofstuff  t hatgets bo ught by the
NHS to mak e GPs handledou blet h ei r w o rk l oad .The r e  supposedly are  protectio ns in  place (co n tra ct ed _and _ EUWTD ) tos top
doc tors andnurses wo rk ingw i tho ut protect ed break s, but yo u  find me  a si ngl e
comp et ent  (eg)  med-r e g w ho ma nagesto  regul arlyta ke their s.

There _is_ a ton of  quite  low- han ging frui t.. .  Bu t half of  itis a poiso n i n
s ome p rof e ssion s an d  m ost of th at r e lies on t h erea s o nit was boug h t . 

R eally , c h asingthis  thought processc an get prettyphil o s oph ica l , es pe cially
when yo u c on s i der thewi despread sk ills weha v e alr eady l ost be cause w e ou t source  and  au tomate. T hey  a r e thing sto consid er t oo  but i mmedia t elyI ' d
worry about th e peo p l e bei n g t old t he ir work l oadis doublin g because t hey've 
got  a fa ncy gad ge t now. 

- -- ---
 gave_you time_to think and physically_rest

I don't_buy_this argument,_honestly._By extension, you're_saying we should_go
back to manual book-keeping_instead of computers_to_do accounting, because it
would employ more accountants, and let them work at a more_relaxed_pace.

Looking up_documentation,_for_example, is not an intellectually_demanding
task. Instead of going back_and forth_between printed reference, being
distracted, forgetting what you read_and_having to re-check_it, this helps
reduce the feedback loop and that makes_work more intellectually engaging and
interesting because_the worker can_focus_on_things that actually require
thought,_rather than menial tasks.

People will still_take breaks and slack off, it's_human nature, and they
should be able to,_if you demand continued unbroken attention,_you will end up
with people_who make_a lot more mistakes, I_expect (citation needed).

I_am much_more worried about_automated performance metrics and gamification of
work,_those do offer_levers for the employers to push_the_employees beyond
sane limits.

~~~
oliwarner
No,_I_think_automation helps_humanity a lot_in_certain places._But_my
(tangential) experience and main concern really_applies_to healthcare.
Especially in the UK. I should_have added this before_but_couldn't find the
words to_explain it without going off_on one.

To put it briefly, the_utopian "we_get to_go home and see our kids on time"
world Augmedix is selling_is just the sort of stuff_that gets bought by_the
NHS to_make_GPs handle double_their_workload.

There supposedly_are protections in place (contracted _and_ EUWTD)_to stop
doctors_and nurses working without protected breaks,_but you find me_a_single
competent (eg) med-reg who manages to_regularly take theirs.

There _is_ a ton_of quite low-hanging fruit... But_half_of_it is a poison in
some_professions and most of that relies_on the reason_it was bought.

Really, chasing this thought process_can_get pretty philosophical, especially
when you consider_the_widespread skills we have already lost_because_we
outsource_and automate. They are things_to consider too but immediately I'd
worry_about the people being told their workload is doubling_because they've
got a_fancy gadget now.

------