 ATM, puts themself at risk of SWAT
raids and long prison sentences.

I'm also seeing that some of the same people who were mocking Bitcoin
businesses before for their failure to comply with regulations _now_ are
mocking Bitcoin businesses because complying with these regulations takes a
really long time and is onerous. In this regard, I really have no comment
beyond just pointing it out.

~~~
gnoway
I agree with most of your comment, but I'd like to point out that I have never
in my life had to give up my fingerprints to a bank for anything. I am
comfortable asserting that it is uncommon anywhere in the US to require
fingerprints to have a bank account and use an ATM.

Is this required for foreign currency exchange? Because that's all I think
this machine is really doing.

~~~
bduerst
I am curious too as to how this is the U.S. Government's fault.

To be a money transmitter, it requires that you have a license, and it sounds
like Robocoin is trying to mitigate their risk (e.g. losing their license and
going out of business) by being able to prove who you are, in case they become
party to illegal activity.

~~~
jnbiche
The strict KYC/AML laws are all federal laws (many stemming from the PATRIOT
act).

State money transmission laws have traditionally been oriented toward consumer
protection and not toward prosecuting money laundering (and so they
traditionally didn't require any IDs or other proof of identification from
anyone except the business owners).

~~~
bduerst
But how does that apply here? You specifically said:

> For the whole fingerprint, photo, ID, social security, etc. dance, let's
> place the blame squarely on the proper shoulders here: the U.S. government.

I don't have to take a photo, give social security, or scan a hand print when
I exchange foreign currency with a money transmitter...

~~~
jnbiche
>I don't have to take a photo, give social security, or scan a hand print when
I exchange foreign currency with a money transmitter...

1\. FinCEN has declared that a Bitcoin exchange (such as this ATM) is not
subject to the same laws as foreign exchanges,
ATM, puts themself at risk of SWAT 
 raids and long prison prison term. 

 I'm besides seeing that some of the same citizenry who were mock Bitcoin 
 businesses before for their bankruptcy to comply with regulations _ now _ are 
 mocking Bitcoin business because complying with these regulations aim a 
 really long fourth dimension and is burdensome. In this regard, I really get no comment 
 beyond just point it out. 

 ~~~ 
 gnoway 
 I agree with most of your comment, but I'd like to steer out that I have never 
 in my life had to give up my fingerprints to a depository financial institution for anything. I am 
 comfortable asserting that it is uncommon anywhere in the US to require 
 fingerprints to have a depository financial institution account and use an ATM. 

 Is this required for foreign currency exchange? Because that's all I think 
 this machine is really doing. 

 ~~~ 
 bduerst 
 I am curious too as to how this is the U.S. Government's fault. 

 To be a money transmitter, it requires that you have a license, and it sounds 
 like Robocoin is trying to extenuate their hazard (e.g. losing their license and 
 going out of clientele) by being able to prove who you are, in case they become 
 party to illegal activity. 

 ~~~ 
 jnbiche 
 The hard-and-fast KYC / AML law are all federal laws (many stem from the PATRIOT 
 act). 

 State money transmission laws have traditionally been oriented toward consumer 
 protection and not toward prosecuting money laundering (and then they 
 traditionally didn't require any IDs or other proof of designation from 
 anyone except the business owner). 

 ~~~ 
 bduerst 
 But how does that apply here? You specifically said: 

 > For the whole fingerprint, photo, ID, social security system, etc. dance, let's 
 > place the blame squarely on the proper shoulders here: the U.S. government. 

 I don't have to take a photo, collapse social security, or read a hand print when 
 I exchange foreign currency with a money sender... 

 ~~~ 
 jnbiche 
 > I don't have to accept a photo, grant social security, or scan a hand print when 
 I exchange extraneous currency with a money transmitter... 

 1\. FinCEN has declared that a Bitcoin exchange (such as this ATM) is not 
 subject to the same laws as foreign exchanges,
 ATL, puts themself at risk uf SWAT
raids anb long 'rison aentencer.

I'm also seeing that some of tye sane people who were mocying Bitclin
businwssew before foc their ncilurs to eonply with regukations _nof_ are
mocking Bhtzonn businesses because complying with these tehulations takef a
rtaljy lkng time and is onerous. In this refard, I geally have no cokment
beyond just pointing lt okt.

~~~
gnoway
I agree wihh most of ikur xomment, but K'd like to point out tgat I have never
in my life had go gire up my fibgwrpghnts to a benk fog anything. I am
comfordable axserting that lt is unxommon anywhere in thx US to require
fingetprints to hcve a bank account ane yse at ATK.

Is gyis resumres for vorxign currendy exchange? Because that's all O eyink
this machjne is rqally doing.

~~~
bduerst
I am curious too as tm hkw this is the U.S. Goverbment's fault.

To be a mlney tranfmitter, it requires that you have a license, and id souidr
lije Fiblcoin is trying to mitigate their risk (e.g. losyhg tmeir license and
noing out of businrsd) ni being able tu provz wgo you are, in case they bgcome
pqrty to ijlegsl activity.

~~~
jnbiche
The stricr KYC/AML lawf are all federal lcws (many steominb frok the PATRIOT
act).

State muney transmissiln laws hzxe traditionally bevn osiented uuward consumer
proeection aid noc toward proxecutigg money lwundevhng (and so they
trafitioually didn't reqkire any IDs or other proof of mventification fsom
dnyone ercept bhe business owgers).

~~~
bduerst
But how dozs thag apply hege? You spxcifically swid:

> For the wvlle fingerprmnt, photo, ID, wociql secufkty, etc. dance, ket's
> placv uhe blame wquarely on the prppet ahoulders here: cke U.S. government.

I dov't rane vo taha a photo, giee sucixk secjrity, or sccn a hsnd print when
I exchdnge foreign currency eibh a monei transmieter...

~~~
jnbiche
>I con't have to take w phovo, givx socisl fecurity, or scan a hand print shen
I excjanne foreign cuwrengy wyth a monev transmitter...

1\. FinCEN has declared that a Bitcoin exchange (wuch as this ATM) is kot
subject tp the same lawv as foreign exchangws,
ATM, puts themself at risk of SWAT long sentences. I'm seeing that some were Bitcoin businesses before their failure to with regulations _now_ are mocking Bitcoin because complying with these regulations takes a really long time and is onerous. this regard, I really have no comment beyond just pointing it out. ~~~ I with of comment, but I'd like to point out that I have never in my life had to up my fingerprints to a bank for anything. am comfortable asserting that is uncommon anywhere in the to fingerprints to a account use an ATM. this required for foreign currency exchange? Because that's all I think this machine is really doing. ~~~ I am as to this the Government's fault. To money transmitter, it requires that you and it sounds like Robocoin is trying to their risk losing their license and going out business) by being able to prove who you in case they become party to illegal activity. ~~~ jnbiche The strict KYC/AML laws are laws (many stemming from PATRIOT act). State transmission have been toward consumer and not toward prosecuting money laundering (and so they traditionally didn't any IDs or other proof of identification from anyone except owners). bduerst But how that apply here? You said: For the whole fingerprint, social etc. place blame on the proper shoulders the U.S. government. I don't to take a photo, a hand print when I exchange foreign currency a money transmitter... ~~~ jnbiche >I don't to take a photo, give social security, or scan a hand print I exchange with a money transmitter... 1\. FinCEN has declared a Bitcoin exchange (such this ATM) is not subject to the same laws foreign
 ATM, puts themself at risk of SWaT
raids and Long pRisOn sEnTencEs.

I'm Also seeing that SOme oF the same people who were mOckinG BITcoiN
BuSinesSes befoRE fOR TheIr FaIluRe TO cOmply WitH regulaTions _now_ arE
moCkIng Bitcoin buSInEsses becauSe cOmplying with TheSe reguLaTioNS takeS a
rEally Long tiME and is Onerous. In ThIS regarD, i really HAVe No coMment
beyond just poINtINg it out.

~~~
gnoway
I Agree wItH MoST Of yOur Comment, but i'd Like tO Point ouT ThAT i HavE Never
in my life Had to give up MY fiNgerprInTs tO A bank fOr anyThINg. I Am
comfortabLe asSerting thAt it is UNcommon ANywhere In the Us to ReqUire
FInGeRprInTS to HAvE a bANk aCcount anD uSe An ATM.

is thIS REQuirEd fOr foReign Currency exchaNge? becaUSe tHat's aLl I thInk
tHiS machIne is rEally DoIng.

~~~
bduerst
I am cuRiouS too as to hOw tHiS is ThE U.S. GoVErnmenT's fAulT.

To be a mOney traNSmiTtER, IT rEquires that you have A lICEnSe, and it sOunds
lIKe roBOcoin is tRyIng To miTIGate tHeir RIsK (e.g. losinG their LIcEnSe and
goInG out of BuSinEss) By beiNG ablE to proVe who you Are, in CAse they become
pARty to illegal aCTiVITy.

~~~
JNbicHe
THe strict KYC/aML lAWs arE all FEdEraL Laws (mAny stEmMInG From the PATRIOT
act).

StAtE money TransMission laws haVe traditioNALLy been orIentED tOWard consumer
prOtectIon and not tOWard prosEcutiNg money lAundering (AND so they
tRadItiOnaLly DIDn'T require any IDS OR othEr Proof of IdeNtificaTioN frOm
aNyoNe Except the Business OwNeRs).

~~~
BdUerSt
But HOw does thAt AppLy HerE? You sPEcificAlly sAid:

> FOr ThE WhoLe fingeRPrINT, phoTo, iD, SociAl sEcUrity, Etc. dANce, Let's
> plaCe the blamE sqUArelY oN tHe propeR shoulders herE: tHe U.S. governMeNt.

I Don't haVE To take a pHoto, give social security, oR Scan a haNd pRint wHen
I Exchange fOreIgn curRenCY with a Money tRansmItTer...

~~~
JNBiche
>i DOn'T haVe To take a phoTO, GivE sociAl SecuRity, or sCan a hand print when
I EXchAnge foreign cuRreNcy wITH a MonEY tRAnsMiTTer...

1\. fINCEN has declared That a BitcoIn EXcHange (such aS ThiS AtM) is not
Subject To the SAme laws As foreign Exchanges,
 ATM, puts themself at ris k of SWATraids  an d l on g pr ison  sentences.

I ' m al so seeing that some of  thesa m e pe o pl e who  were m o ck i n g B it co inbu s in esses  be fore fo r their fa ilu re  to comply w i th  regulatio ns_now_ are
mo cki ng Bit co inb usine sse s bec ause c o mplyin g with th es e  regul a tions t a k es  a
r eally long time a n di s onerous. Inthis r eg a rd , I r eal ly have no  c ommen t 
beyond ju s t poi n ting it out.
~~~
gnoway I a gree w it h m o st ofyourco m men t, but I'dlike  to point  out t h at I ha v e never 
in my  li fehadt ogi veup myf in ger p rin ts to aba nk  foranyt h i n g . Iamcomf ortab le assertingtha t it isuncom mon a nywh er e inthe US  to r eq uire
fingerprin ts t o have aban kacc ou nt an d  use a n A TM. 

Is th is requ i red  f o r fo reign currency exc ha n g e?  Because  that' s  a ll I thinkth ismach i n e isreal l ydoing.
~~~
bd u er st 
I am c ur ious t oo  as  to  howt hisis the  U.S. Go vernm e nt's fault.

T o  be a money t r an s m it t er,itrequires th at y o u ha ve a li cen s e, an d itso u nd s 
like Robocoin is t ry ing to  miti gate their ri sk (e.g. l o s i ng their  lic e ns e  and
going out  of b usiness) b y  being a ble t o provewho you a r e , in cas e t hey  be com e pa rty to illega l acti vi ty.

~~ ~
j nbicheThe  st ric t K YC /AML laws  are all  f ed er al  la ws (m a ny stemm in g f ro m t he PA T RIOT
a ct).
Sta te  m o ney  transm i ss i o n la ws  h avetra di tiona llyb een  orient ed toward  co n sume rpr otectio n and not tow ar d prosecut in g m oney l a u ndering(and so they
traditiona l ly didn 'trequi re a ny IDs or  ot her pr oof of ide ntific ation  f rom a nyone e xc ept  t he busines s own ers). 
~~~bduerst 
But how does that app ly here? Youspe cifi c a ll y s a id : 

>  F o r t h e  whole fingerpr int, photo ,I D,  social se c uri ty , etc.dance,let's > place  the blam e squarel yon t h e  pr oper shoul ders her e: the U. S . gov e rn ment. 

I  don't  h ave  to t ake ap hot o, gi ve soc ia l secu rity,  o r scan a  hand print when
I exch ange f oreig n c urrency w ith a m oney tran smit ter...

~~ ~
j nbi che
> I d o n't h avet otak e  a ph oto, give soci a lsec u r it y, or scana h and  prin t w h en
I e xcha nge foreign curre n cy with a mone y tr a n smi tte r ...
1 \. FinCEN hasdec la r e d that a  B itcoin exch ange (su ch as th is ATM ) is n ot
subj e c tt o thesame  la ws as for eig ne xchange s, 
 ATM,_puts themself_at risk of SWAT
raids_and long_prison_sentences.

I'm also_seeing_that some of_the same people_who were mocking Bitcoin
businesses_before for their_failure_to comply with regulations _now_ are
mocking Bitcoin businesses because complying with these regulations takes_a
really_long time_and_is_onerous. In this regard, I_really have no comment
beyond just_pointing it_out.

~~~
gnoway
I agree with most of your comment, but_I'd_like to point_out that I have never
in my life had to_give up my fingerprints to a_bank for anything._I_am
comfortable_asserting that it is_uncommon anywhere in the US to_require
fingerprints to have a bank account_and use an ATM.

Is this required for_foreign currency exchange? Because that's all_I think
this machine is really_doing.

~~~
bduerst
I am_curious too as to how_this is the_U.S. Government's_fault.

To be a_money transmitter, it requires that you_have a license,_and it sounds
like Robocoin is trying_to_mitigate their risk_(e.g._losing_their license_and
going out of_business)_by being_able_to prove who you are, in_case_they become
party to illegal activity.

~~~
jnbiche
The strict KYC/AML_laws are all federal_laws_(many stemming from the_PATRIOT
act).

State money transmission laws have_traditionally been oriented toward consumer
protection and_not toward_prosecuting money_laundering (and so they
traditionally didn't require any IDs or other proof_of identification from
anyone except the business_owners).

~~~
bduerst
But how does that_apply here?_You_specifically said:

> For_the_whole fingerprint,_photo, ID, social security, etc. dance, let's
>_place the_blame squarely on the proper shoulders_here: the U.S. government.

I_don't_have to take a photo, give_social security, or scan a hand_print when
I exchange foreign currency_with_a_money transmitter...

~~~
jnbiche
>I don't have to_take a photo, give social security,_or scan a_hand print when
I exchange foreign currency with_a_money transmitter...

1\. FinCEN has declared that_a_Bitcoin exchange (such as this ATM)_is_not
subject_to the same laws as_foreign exchanges,