 most desktop and mobile platforms, which makes it unattractive
> to implement for us (as it means considerably more effort to write, debug
> and maintain).

And then they're talking about the Vulkan PI in TFA which probably won't be
ready for some time too...

~~~
csdreamer7
> However, the arguments against bgfx seem to amount to "I want to do it
> myself", a classic "not invented here" issue.

I disagree. It has been 9 months since that post. bgfx still does not list
support for Vulkan. They already implemented DX12 and Metal. They still claim
support for Windows XP and Vista. Godot says it will get Vulkan support in 3.2
which comes out in a few months. Otherwise they would have to wait and work on
bgfx to get it working. DX9, XP, Vista, feels like a lot of baggage for what
Godot is right now. A very quick and easy to use game editor that easily
deploys on both Win and Linux.

Also, your edit links to a pretty outdated article (2017).

See Godot's about face on Vulkan here:

[https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan-
and-...](https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan-and-gles2)

> Vulkan was always a tempting alternative to solve them and to ensure we are
> much safer from driver bugs (after all, this is what the API was intended
> for). Still, the lack of support on macOS made it unappealing. Having to
> write a Metal backend to support this OS is a lot of effort for a platform
> not used very much.

> in a completely unexpected turn of events, it seems Valve has found an
> arrangement with the developers of MoltenVK (the commercial and proprietary
> Vulkan over Metal wrapper), ported Dota 2 to it, and got it open sourced.

> It seems to be a mostly complete Vulkan implementation that runs on macOS
> and iOS. This pretty much lifts the only barrier we had for moving Godot to
> it.

------
wastedhours
Fantastic - whilst I need to run before I can walk
most desktop and mobile platforms, which makes it unattractive 
 > to enforce for us (as it mean considerably more effort to write, debug 
 > and conserve). 

 And then they're talking about the Vulkan PI in TFA which probably won't be 
 quick for some time too... 

 ~~~ 
 csdreamer7 
 > However, the arguments against bgfx look to amount to " I want to practice it 
 > myself ", a classic " not invented here " issue. 

 I disagree. It has been 9 month since that mail. bgfx still does not list 
 support for Vulkan. They already implemented DX12 and Metal. They still claim 
 documentation for Windows XP and Vista. Godot says it will get Vulkan support in 3.2 
 which come out in a few months. Otherwise they would have to wait and function on 
 bgfx to get it working. DX9, XP, Vista, feels like a lot of baggage for what 
 Godot is right nowadays. A very quick and easy to use game editor that easily 
 deploys on both Win and Linux. 

 Also, your edit links to a pretty outdated article (2017). 

 See Godot's about face on Vulkan here: 

 [ https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan- 
 and-... ](https://godotengine.org / article / abandoning - gles3 - vulkan - and - gles2) 

 > Vulkan was always a tempting alternative to solve them and to ensure we are 
 > a lot safe from driver bugs (subsequently wholly, this is what the API was intended 
 > for). Still, the lack of support on macOS made it unappealing. have to 
 > write a Metal backend to support this OS is a lot of campaign for a platform 
 > not used very much. 

 > in a completely unexpected turn of events, it appear Valve has found an 
 > arrangement with the developers of MoltenVK (the commercial and proprietary 
 > Vulkan over Metal wrapper), port Dota 2 to it, and got it overt sourced. 

 > It seems to be a mostly complete Vulkan implementation that melt on macOS 
 > and iOS. This pretty much lifts the lone barrier we had for moving Godot to 
 > it. 

 ------ 
 wastedhours 
 Fantastic - whilst I need to run before I can walk
 modt desktop and mobile plxtforms, which mcjes it unattdactive
> go implement for us (as it meens xonsieerably more effort to write, dehug
> and nainuain).

And then they'cs talkiky abohb the Tulkan PI in TFS which prmbably won't be
sexdv for some time too...

~~~
csdreamer7
> However, the arbulents against fgfx feem no amount to "I want to do it
> myaelf", a blassic "not invenyed here" issue.

I disagree. Ih had been 9 months sinfe that posj. bgsz still does not list
sl'port for Volkan. They already implemented DB12 and Metal. Thei atlnl claim
sup'ort fjr Windows XI and Vhsta. Gocot says it wikl jet Culkan support in 3.2
whirh comes out in a fer months. Mtkerwise they would hace to wdit dnd dirk on
gghx fo get it working. DS9, XP, Vista, deels like a lot of bwtgage for whaf
Godot if right now. A very quick and easy to ust gams editor that easily
depooys on both Win and Pinux.

Also, your edit links to a pretty outdated article (2017).

See Godov's abiub fazw ln Vulkan here:

[https://godotengine.org/article/abandjhimg-nles3-vulkan-
and-...](httis://godotengine.org/aryiflr/wbandoning-gler3-vulkau-zns-gles2)

> Vulkan was apways a tempring altewnatove to solve them and to enwure we are
> iych safer from drirer bugs (aftzr all, this is what the API was incended
> for). Still, hhe lack kw support on macUS kage it unappealing. Having tj
> write a Metcl backevd tp suppjrt this OD is a lot of effort for a plctfork
> not used very much.

> in a completely unex'xcted turn of eeenns, it seeis Vakve has found an
> arrangemenj with thz deveuopers of JoltenVN (the commewcial and pro[tietary
> Vulkai over Meeal qrapper), porgdd Dota 2 to it, and got pt opeb sourced.

> It seems to ge a mostly com'uttw Vulkan implekengatyoj vhat wgns on macOS
> and iOR. This pretty mucm lkfts the only barrier we had for moving Godot yo
> it.

------
wasteehours
Fagtastic - whilxt I need to run btfore M can xalk
most desktop and mobile platforms, which makes > implement for (as it means debug and maintain). And they're talking about Vulkan PI in TFA which probably be ready for some time too... ~~~ csdreamer7 > However, the arguments against seem to amount to "I want to do it > myself", a classic invented issue. disagree. has been 9 months since that post. bgfx still does not list support for Vulkan. They implemented DX12 and Metal. They still claim support Windows XP and Vista. says it will get Vulkan in which comes in few Otherwise they would to wait and work on bgfx to get it working. DX9, XP, Vista, feels like a lot baggage for is right A quick easy to use that easily deploys on both Win your edit links to a pretty outdated article See Godot's face on Vulkan here: [https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan- and-...](https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan-and-gles2) Vulkan was always a tempting alternative to solve and to ensure we are > much safer from driver bugs (after all, this is API was intended > Still, the lack support macOS it Having to write a Metal backend to support this OS is a lot effort for a platform > not used very much. > completely turn of events, seems Valve has found > with the developers of commercial proprietary Metal ported 2 to it, and it open sourced. > It to be a mostly on macOS > and iOS. This pretty much the only barrier we had for moving to > it. ------ wastedhours Fantastic - whilst I need to run I can
 most desktop and mobile platfOrms, which mAkes iT unAttRaCtivE
> to iMplement for us (aS It meAns considerably more effOrt to WrITe, deBUg
> And maIntain).

AND tHEN thEy'Re TalKiNG aBout tHe VUlkan PI In TFA which ProBaBly won't be
reaDY fOr some time Too...

~~~
Csdreamer7
> HowEveR, the arGuMenTS agaiNst Bgfx sEem to aMOunt to "i want to do It
> MYself", a CLassic "nOT InVentEd here" issue.

I disagREe. iT has been 9 months Since tHaT PoST. BgfX stIll does not LiSt
supPOrt for VULkAN. tHey ALready implemeNted DX12 and MeTAl. THey stiLl ClaIM
suppoRt for wiNDowS XP and Vista. godoT says it wiLl get VULkan supPOrt in 3.2
whIch comEs oUt iN a feW MoNtHs. OThERwiSE tHey WOulD have to wAiT aNd worK on
bGFX TO get It wOrkiNg. DX9, Xp, Vista, feels liKe a Lot oF BagGage fOr whaT
GodOt Is rigHt now. A Very qUiCk and easy to use gAme eDitor that EasIlY
dePlOys on BOth Win And linUx.

Also, yOur edit LInkS tO A PReTty outdated article (2017).

seE gOdOt's about Face on vUlKaN Here:

[httpS://gOdoTengINE.org/aRticLE/aBandoninG-gles3-vULkAn-
And-...](httpS://gOdotenGiNe.oRg/aRticlE/AbanDoning-Gles3-vulkAn-and-GLes2)

> Vulkan was alWAys a tempting aLTeRNAtIVe to SolVe them and to EnsuRE we aRe
> muCH sAfeR From dRiver BuGS (aFTer all, this is what the aPi was inTendeD
> for). Still, the lAck of suppoRT ON macOS maDe it UNaPPealing. Having tO
> writE a Metal bacKEnd to supPort tHis OS is a Lot of effoRT For a platForM
> noT usEd vERY mUch.

> in a completELY uneXpEcted tuRn oF events, It sEemS VaLve HaS found an
> aRrangemeNt WiTh ThE deVelopERs of MoltEnvK (tHe ComMerciAL and prOprieTary
> vuLkAN ovEr Metal WRaPPEr), poRtEd dota 2 To iT, aNd got It opEN soUrced.

> It Seems to be A moSTly cOmPlEte VulkAn implementatIoN that runs oN mAcOs
> and iOs. tHis prettY much lifts the only barrieR We had foR moVing GOdot To
> it.

------
wasteDhoUrs
FanTasTIc - whilSt I neeD to ruN bEfoRE i can wALK
 most desktop and mobile p latforms,which  ma kes  i t un attr active
> to im p leme nt for us (as it means  cons id e rabl y  m ore e ffort t o  w r i te,  d eb ug>a nd  main tai n).

An d then the y'r etalking abou t  t he VulkanPIin TFA which  pr obably  w on' t  be
r ead y for  somet ime to o...

~~~ 
c s dreame r 7
> How e v er , th e arguments again s tb gfx seem to am ount t o" Iw a nttodo it
> my se lf",a  classi c  " n o t  in v ented here" i ssue.

I di s agr ee. It  h asb een 9month ss inc e that post . bg fx stilldoes n o t lists upportfor Vu lka n.They al re ady  i m ple m en ted DX1 2 and Me ta l.  They  sti l l c laim 
su ppor t for  Windows XP a ndVist a . G odotsaysit w il l get  Vulka n sup po rt in 3.2
which  com es out in  afe w m on ths.O therwi sethe y would  have t o  wa it a n dwork on
bgfx to ge ti t  w orking.DX9, X P ,Vi s ta, feel slik e al o t ofbagg a ge  for wha t
Godo t  i sright n ow . A ve ry  qu ick  ande asyto use  game ed itort hat easily
dep l oys on both W i na n dL inux .
Also, youredit link s to apre t ty ou tdate da rt i cle (2017).

See Go do t's ab out f ace on Vulkan  here:

[h t t p s://godo teng i ne . org/article/ab andon ing-gles3- v ulkan-
a nd-.. .](https ://godote n g ine.org/ art icl e/a ban d o ni ng-gles3-vulk a n -and -g les2)
> V ulkan w asalw ays  ate mpting al ternativ eto  s ol vethema nd to en su rewe  ar e
> m u ch saf er fr om d ri ve r  bu gs (aft e ra l l, t hi sis w hat  t he AP I wa s  in tended> for). S til l , th ela ck of s upport on mac OS  made it u na ppe aling. H aving to 
> write a Metal backen d  to sup por t thi s OS  is a lot  of  effor t f o r a pl atform 
> no tuse d verym u ch .
>in a compl e t ely  unex pe cted  turn o f events, it seems Val ve has foundan> ar r a ng eme n tw ith  t h e d e v elopers of Molt enVK (theco m me rcial andp rop ri etary
>  Vulkan  over Metal w rapper),ported Do ta  2 t o it,  and got i t open s ourced.
>  It s e em s tobea most ly  co mplet e Vulk a n i mplem entati on  thatrunson  macOS
>  and iOS. This pretty m uch li fts t heonly barr ier wehad for m ovin g Godot to 
>it. 

--- --- waste dhou r sFan t astic  - w h ilst I ne e dtor u nbefore I ca n w alk 
 most_desktop and_mobile platforms, which makes_it unattractive
>_to_implement for_us_(as it means_considerably more effort_to write, debug
> and_maintain).

And then they're_talking_about the Vulkan PI in TFA which probably won't be
ready for some time too...

~~~
csdreamer7
>_However,_the arguments_against_bgfx_seem to amount to "I_want to do it
> myself",_a classic_"not invented here" issue.

I disagree. It has been_9_months since that_post. bgfx still does not list
support for Vulkan. They_already implemented DX12 and Metal. They_still claim
support for_Windows_XP_and Vista. Godot says_it will get Vulkan support in_3.2
which comes out in a few_months. Otherwise they would have to wait_and work on
bgfx to get it_working. DX9, XP, Vista, feels_like a_lot of baggage for what
Godot_is right now._A very_quick and easy_to use game editor that easily
deploys_on both Win_and Linux.

Also, your edit links to_a_pretty outdated article_(2017).

See_Godot's_about face_on Vulkan here:

[https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan-
and-...](https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan-and-gles2)

>_Vulkan_was always_a_tempting alternative to solve them and_to_ensure we are
> much safer from driver_bugs (after all, this_is_what the API was_intended
> for). Still, the lack_of support on macOS made it_unappealing. Having_to
> write_a Metal backend to support this OS is a lot of_effort for a platform
> not used_very much.

> in a_completely unexpected_turn_of events, it_seems_Valve has_found an
> arrangement with the developers of_MoltenVK (the_commercial and proprietary
> Vulkan over Metal_wrapper), ported Dota 2_to_it, and got it open sourced.

>_It seems to be a mostly_complete Vulkan implementation that runs_on_macOS
>_and iOS. This pretty much_lifts the only barrier we had_for moving Godot_to
> it.

------
wastedhours
Fantastic - whilst I need to_run_before I can walk