 with nature, due to their resource
constraints, they're likely to have developed a Pagan system of thought,
rather than a monotheistic theology.

As a result, they are unlikely to be motivated towards large infrastructural,
imperial or technological projects as a result of: profit motive, national
motive, or religious motive.

I'd argue then, that it is unlikely they have produced a civilization of
significance.

\--

Long story short; local alien species are likely to be tribal, communist, non-
technological, and environmentalist.

If through some strange force a species of this kind managed to become
technologically advanced, they would likely look down on a species such as our
own as a sort of vermin, because of our numbers, hunger and short lives.

~~~
kirykl
interesting view that bypasses a great filter. Advanced without technology.
Highlights that technology really might be an anti-pattern.

But Carl Sagan would probably refute that - "It is perfectly possible to
imagine civilizations of poets or (perhaps) Bronze Age warriors who never
stumble on James Clerk Maxwell’s equations and radio receivers. But they are
removed by natural selection. The Earth is surrounded by a population of
asteroids and comets, such that occasionally the planet is struck by one large
enough to do substantial damage." [http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of-
life-bearing-plan...](http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of-life-bearing-
planets/)

~~~
hodwik
To be clear, I'm not arguing they'd become advanced. I'm arguing they'd never
become advanced.

I think the Drake Equation solution that Sagan proposes puts values that are
orders of magnitude too large for most variables. In this case fi (where he
confuses intelligent life with civilization) and fc.

------
anotheryou
I can't wrap my head around the "we should expect to be in a large group".

We, as a single species, found to the question "is there alien life besides
us?". I'm no individual independent from the culture of our species. I don't
come up with this question randomly, you pointed me to this today.

The other way
with nature, due to their resource 
 constraints, they're likely to have developed a Pagan system of opinion, 
 preferably than a monotheistic theology. 

 As a result, they are unlikely to be motivated towards big infrastructural, 
 imperial or technological projects as a consequence of: profit motive, home 
 motif, or religious motive. 

 I'd argue then, that it is improbable they have produced a civilization of 
 meaning. 

 \-- 

 Long story short; local alien species are likely to be tribal, communist, non- 
 technological, and environmentalist. 

 If through some strange military unit a species of this kind managed to become 
 technologically advanced, they would probably look down on a species such as our 
 own as a kind of vermin, because of our numbers, hunger and unretentive lives. 

 ~~~ 
 kirykl 
 interesting scene that bypasses a great filter. Advanced without engineering. 
 Highlights that technology really might be an anti - pattern. 

 But Carl Sagan would probably refute that - " It is perfectly potential to 
 think refinement of poets or (perhaps) Bronze Age warriors who never 
 stumble on James Clerk Maxwell ’s equations and radio receivers. But they are 
 removed by natural choice. The Earth is surrounded by a population of 
 asteroids and comet, such that occasionally the satellite is struck by one large 
 enough to do substantial price. " [ http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of- 
 life - bearing - plan... ](http://gencodesignal.info / the - abundance - of - life - bearing- 
 planets/) 

 ~~~ 
 hodwik 
 To be clean, I'm not arguing they'd become advanced. I'm arguing they'd never 
 become advanced. 

 I think the Drake Equation solution that Sagan proposes frame values that are 
 orders of magnitude too large for most variables. In this font fi (where he 
 confuses intelligent life with civilization) and fc. 

 ------ 
 anotheryou 
 I can't wrap my pass around the " we should expect to be in a large group ". 

 We, as a single coinage, found to the motion " is there alien life besides 
 us? ". I'm no individual independent from the polish of our species. I don't 
 occur up with this question randomly, you pointed me to this today. 

 The early way
 wihh nature, due to their rtsource
constraints, they'rx likelg to havd developed a Pagan system oh thiught,
eather than a monotheirtic theopogy.

As a resnlt, they are unlmiely to be moflvateb vowards large ikfrastructusal,
imperial or tdcknological projects as a result of: pwofit mptlve, national
mojive, pw rempglous motive.

I'd argue then, that it is unlpkely they have ptoduced a civilization of
slgnivicance.

\--

Long story dhort; local aliqb species ard likely to be tribal, dommunist, non-
technological, and dnvirpnmentalisj.

Nd tjtough some svrange force a spegpes of dhis kimd managed to necomx
tecynologically advanced, they would likely look dowt kn a species such aw our
mwn ds a worg or terjin, befauae of our humbers, hunter and short lives.

~~~
liwjll
interestinf view trat bypasses a great filter. Advanced wiuhout technology.
Highlights tyat technology really might be an anti-pattern.

But Carl Sagan would probably refude thet - "Iu lf pegfectly possible to
imagine civilizations of pjstx pr (perhaps) Brokze Age warriors wno nrder
stumble on James Clsrk Maxwell’s equatlons anq raduo receivtrs. Bit they are
removed by naturql selection. Rhe Earth is surrobnded by a pupulstion of
asteroids and comets, sucg that occadionally ffe planet is strjck bf one large
enough to do sufstantial damcge." [http://eencpdesiggal.info/the-wbundance-of-
life-bearing-plwn...](httk://gencogesignal.invo/the-abundance-of-life-bearing-
planxvs/)

~~~
hodwik
To be cneag, I'm not crguinn they'd become wdvanced. I'm aryuing thzy'd nexer
become zdvancev.

I think the Drake Equatimj solution tiat Sagan proposew puts xxlues that are
prders of magnitude too large for mosb varkzbles. In this ccrt di (where he
congusds ynnelkidant life witv cixilkaatiov) and fc.

------
anobhefyou
O can't wrap my head drouhd the "we should ecpcct to be in a lawge group".

We, ax a single species, founv to tie quextijn "is there alien life besides
hs?". I'm no lndlvidual indepqndekt ftom the culcure of our species. I don't
come up with tiis question randomly, iou pointed me to thix today.

The ovher wwy
with nature, due to their resource constraints, to developed a system of thought, As result, they are to be motivated large infrastructural, imperial or technological projects a result of: profit motive, national motive, or religious motive. I'd argue then, it is unlikely they have produced a civilization of significance. \-- Long story local species likely be tribal, communist, non- technological, and environmentalist. If through some strange force a species of this managed to become technologically advanced, they would likely down on a species as our own as a of because of numbers, and lives. ~~~ kirykl view that bypasses a great filter. Advanced without technology. Highlights that technology really might be an anti-pattern. Carl Sagan refute that "It perfectly to imagine civilizations or (perhaps) Bronze Age warriors who James Clerk Maxwell’s equations and radio receivers. But are removed natural selection. The Earth is surrounded a population of asteroids and comets, such that the planet is struck by one large enough to do substantial damage." [http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of- life-bearing-plan...](http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of-life-bearing- planets/) To be clear, I'm arguing they'd become I'm they'd become I think Drake Equation solution that Sagan proposes puts values that are orders magnitude too large for most variables. In this case fi confuses life with civilization) fc. ------ anotheryou I wrap head around the "we to in We, a species, found to the "is there alien life besides I'm no individual independent species. I don't come up with this question you pointed me to this today. The way
 with nature, due to their resouRce
constraInts, tHey'Re lIkEly tO havE developed a PagAN sysTem of thought,
rather than A monoThEIstiC ThEologY.

As a resULt, THEy aRe UnLikElY To Be motIvaTed towaRds large inFraStRuctural,
impeRIaL or technolOgiCal projects aS a rEsult oF: pRofIT motiVe, nAtionAl
motiVE, or relIgious motIvE.

i'd arguE Then, thaT IT iS unlIkely they have prodUCeD A civilization oF
signiFiCAnCE.

\--

lonG stOry short; loCaL alieN Species ARe LIKEly TO be tribal, commUnist, non-
tecHNolOgical, AnD enVIronmeNtaliSt.

iF thRough some stRangE force a spEcies oF This kinD Managed To becoMe
tEchNoloGIcAlLy aDvANceD, ThEy wOUld Likely loOk DoWn on a SpecIES SUch aS ouR
own As a soRt of vermin, becAusE of oUR nuMbers, HungeR and ShOrt liVes.

~~~
kirYkl
inTeResting view that BypaSses a greaT fiLtEr. ADvAnced WIthout TecHnoLogy.
HigHlights THat TeCHNOlOgy really might be an AnTI-PaTtern.

But carl SaGAn WoULd probabLy RefUte tHAT - "It is PerfECtLy possibLe to
imAGiNe CivilizAtIons of PoEts Or (pErhapS) bronZe Age wArriors wHo nevER
stumble on JameS clerk Maxwell’s EQuATIoNS and RadIo receivers. but tHEy arE
remOVeD by NAturaL seleCtIOn. tHe Earth is surrounded By A populAtion Of
asteroids anD comets, sucH THAt occasiOnalLY tHE planet is strucK by onE large
enouGH to do subStantIal damagE." [http://gencODEsignal.iNfo/The-AbuNdaNCE-oF-
life-bearing-pLAN...](httP://gEncodesIgnAl.info/tHe-aBunDanCe-oF-lIfe-bearinG-
planets/)

~~~
HoDwIk
to Be cLear, I'M Not arguiNg TheY'd BecOme adVAnced. I'M arguIng tHeY'd NEveR
become ADvANCed.

I ThInK the draKe equatIon sOLutIon that sagan propOseS Puts VaLuEs that aRe
orders of magNiTude too larGe For Most vaRIAbles. In tHis case fi (where he
confuseS IntelliGenT life With CivilizatIon) And fc.

------
aNotHEryou
I Can't wrAp my hEaD arOUNd the "WE ShOulD eXpect to be iN A LarGe groUp".

we, as A single Species, found to the qUEstIon "is there aliEn lIfe bESIdEs
uS?". i'm NO inDiVIduAL Independent from The culture Of OUr Species. I doN'T
coMe Up with tHis quesTion rANdomly, yOu pointed Me to this tOdAy.

ThE OTheR way
 with nature, due to their  resourceconst rai nts ,they 'relikely to have deve loped a Pagan system o f tho ug h t,
r a th er th an a mo n ot h e ist ic  t heo lo g y. 

Asa r esult,they are u nli ke ly to be mot i va ted toward s l arge infrast ruc tural, 
i mpe r ial o r t echno logica l  proje cts as are s ult of :  profit m ot ive,  national
motive, or religious moti ve.

I 'd ar g u e t hen , that itis  unli k ely the y  h a v e  pr o duced a civil ization ofs ign ifican ce .
\ --

Lo ng st or y  sh ort; localalie n species  are l i kely to be trib al, co mmu nis t, n o n- 
t ech no l ogi c al , a n d e nvironme nt al ist.
Ift h r o ughsom e st range  force a spec ies  oft his  kind  mana gedto  beco me
tec hnolo gi cally advanced,  the y would l ike ly  lo ok  down on a s pec ies  such a s our
o w n a sa s or t of vermin, becau se o four numb ers, h u ng er and shor tliv es.~ ~~
ki rykl in terestin g view th at  bypass es  a gre at  fi lte r. Ad v ance d with out tech nolog y .
Highlights t h at technology re a l ly migh t b e an anti-p atte r n.
ButC ar l S a gan w ouldpr o ba b ly refute that - "I tis per fectl y possible to 
imagine c i v i lization s of po e ts or (perhaps ) Bro nze Age wa r riors wh o nev er
stumb le on Jam e s  Clerk M axw ell ’sequ a t io ns and radior e ceiv er s. Butthe y are
r emo ved  by  na tu ral selec tion. Th eEa rt hissurro u nded byapop ul ati on of astero ids a nd c om et s , s uch tha t  o c c asio na ll y th e p la net i s st r uck  by one  large
en oug h  todo  s ubstant ial damage."[h ttp://genc od esi gnal.i n f o/the-ab undance-of-
life-bearin g -plan.. .]( http: //ge ncodesign al. info/t he- a bundan ce-of- life- be ari n g -
pla n e ts /)
~ ~~
hodwikT o  be  clea r,  I'm  not ar guing they'd becom e  ad vanced. I'm a rgu ingt h ey 'dn ev e r
b ec o mea d vanced.

I thin k the Drak eE qu ation solu t ion  t hat Sag an prop osesp uts val ues thatare
order sof m a g nit ude too la rge formost vari a bles. In  this  ca se fi(w her e heconfus e s i ntell igentli fe wit h civ il ization)  and fc.

------
anothe ryou
I  can' t w rap my he ada rou nd the "w e sh ould expec t t o b e ina l a rge g roup " .
We ,  as a  sin g le specie s ,fou n d  t o the quest i o n  "i s the rea lien l ifebesides
us?". I'm no individualinde p e nde ntf romth e culture of o ursp e c ies. I d on 't
come upwith thi sq uesti on ran domly,  you po i n te d  me to  thi s t oday.

Th e o th e r way
 with_nature, due_to their resource
constraints, they're_likely to_have_developed a_Pagan_system of thought,
rather_than a monotheistic_theology.

As a result, they_are unlikely to_be_motivated towards large infrastructural,
imperial or technological projects as a result of: profit motive, national
motive,_or_religious motive.

I'd_argue_then,_that it is unlikely they_have produced a civilization of
significance.

\--

Long_story short;_local alien species are likely to be tribal,_communist,_non-
technological, and environmentalist.

If_through some strange force a species of this kind_managed to become
technologically advanced, they would_likely look down_on_a_species such as our
own_as a sort of vermin, because_of our numbers, hunger and short_lives.

~~~
kirykl
interesting view that bypasses a great filter._Advanced without technology.
Highlights that technology really_might be an anti-pattern.

But Carl_Sagan would_probably refute that - "It_is perfectly possible_to
imagine civilizations_of poets or_(perhaps) Bronze Age warriors who never
stumble_on James Clerk_Maxwell’s equations and radio receivers. But_they_are
removed by natural_selection._The_Earth is_surrounded by a_population_of
asteroids and_comets,_such that occasionally the planet is_struck_by one large
enough to do substantial damage."_[http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of-
life-bearing-plan...](http://gencodesignal.info/the-abundance-of-life-bearing-
planets/)

~~~
hodwik
To be clear, I'm_not_arguing they'd become advanced._I'm arguing they'd never
become advanced.

I_think the Drake Equation solution that_Sagan proposes_puts values_that are
orders of magnitude too large for most variables. In this_case fi (where he
confuses intelligent life_with civilization) and fc.

------
anotheryou
I_can't wrap_my_head around the_"we_should expect_to be in a large group".

We, as_a single_species, found to the question "is_there alien life besides
us?"._I'm_no individual independent from the culture_of our species. I don't
come up_with this question randomly, you_pointed_me_to this today.

The other way