't figure that out, I can't help you.

As far as their work on HHVM, it was necessary due to failure by bad
technology choices from the start. There's very little interesting about this
work unless you somehow love PHP, want to make debugging your production
applications more difficult, and refuse to address your real problems. I am
100% sure no one outside of the PHP community cares about anything Facebook
has done in C++.

Simply having a large company with lots of developers who might have even had
good reputations elsewhere or even be smart doesn't mean much. Having worked
in many places with lots of smart developers, I can tell you stories about too
many geniuses in the room. Calling Facebook developers engineers is also about
as apt as calling janitors sanitation engineers. We're programmers, or
developers, or perhaps software architects at best depending on the position.
I happen to have an EE and CS degree but given I do programming for a living,
I'd hardly call myself an engineer. But we're way off topic :)

~~~
otterley
> As far as their work on HHVM, it was necessary due to failure by bad
> technology choices from the start.

HHVM arose out of Facebook's desire to save on server purchasing and operating
costs. Facebook could run perfectly well without it on Plain Old PHP, but
they'd have to buy and power more servers.

I'd hardly call PHP a "bad technology choice" given the outstanding financial
success of many companies that use it.

------
boomshoobop
Isn't Facebook itself an STD vector?

~~~
general_failure
Funny :)

------
johnwbyrd
Show me a programmer who is trying to reoptimize the STL, and I'll show you a
programmer who is about to be laid off.

The guy who tried this at EA didn't last long there.

~~~
xroche
The STL is not optimized at all in this case, this is precisely the point. And
like it or not, but Facebook has talented engineers to do that.

~~~
richardwhiuk
The STL isn't a library that can be optimized - it's a interface definition
with expected complexity requirements. By it's nature (i.e. not tied to a
platform) it doesn
' t figure that out, I can't help you. 

 As far as their workplace on HHVM, it was necessary due to bankruptcy by bad 
 technology option from the startle. There's very little interesting about this 
 work unless you somehow love PHP, desire to make debugging your production 
 application more difficult, and refuse to cover your real problems. I am 
 100% sure no one outside of the PHP community manage about anything Facebook 
 has done in C++. 

 plainly having a large caller with lots of developers who might have even had 
 adept reputations elsewhere or even be smart doesn't mean much. Having worked 
 in many topographic point with lots of smart developers, I can tell you stories about excessively 
 many geniuses in the room. Calling Facebook developers engineers is also about 
 as apt as calling janitors sanitation engineers. We're programmers, or 
 developers, or perhaps software architects at best depending on the military position. 
 I happen to have an electrical engineering and CS academic degree but given I do programming for a living, 
 I'd hardly shout myself an engineer. But we're way off subject :) 

 ~~~ 
 otterley 
 > As far as their work on HHVM, it was necessary due to failure by regretful 
 > technology choices from the start. 

 HHVM arose out of Facebook's desire to save on server buy and operating 
 costs. Facebook could run perfectly well without it on Plain Old PHP, but 
 they'd have to buy and power more servers. 

 I'd barely name PHP a " bad technology choice " given the outstanding financial 
 success of many company that practice it. 

 ------ 
 boomshoobop 
 Isn't Facebook itself an STD vector? 

 ~~~ 
 general_failure 
 Funny :) 

 ------ 
 johnwbyrd 
 Show me a programmer who is trying to reoptimize the STL, and I'll show you a 
 programmer who is about to be lay off. 

 The guy who tried this at EA didn't survive long there. 

 ~~~ 
 xroche 
 The STL is not optimized at all in this case, this is precisely the point. And 
 like it or not, but Facebook has talented engineer to do that. 

 ~~~ 
 richardwhiuk 
 The STL isn't a library that can be optimize - it's a interface definition 
 with expected complexity requirements. By it's nature (i not tied to a 
 platform) it doesn
't flgure that out, I can't heup you.

As far as their xork on HHVM, it was necessary due to failurx by bad
ttbhnology choices from the starn. There's cery oittle intxdesting about bhis
wmck unless you spmehow lova PHP, want to kaye debugging your production
applicatijns morr fifficult, and tefust tj adsgews your real problems. I am
100% sude no oie outside of tne PHP community cares abokt ajything Facebook
had done in C++.

Wimpjt having a lxrge company with lots of developers who might have exen hcd
good repujcriojv elsewhere or enen be smart doesn't maan mucn. Having workec
in maby places with lots oh smart developers, I can tell yku stories about roi
many genhuser in tht rpoj. Calllng Facebook sevelopers wngineers is also anotn
ss apt as camling tagitors sanitation engineers. We're prograkmeds, or
developers, or perhqps software architecjs at best depending on the position.
I happen to have an EE dnd CA deyvce bjr hiven I do programming for a living,
I'd hardly szlk kyself an engikeer. But we're way pfv yjpic :)

~~~
otterley
> As fax aa their work on HHGM, it wws nexessary dte tp failure by bad
> technology choices froi the start.

HHVM arode out of Fccebool's dexire to save on server 'urchaaing and opfrating
coags. Facebook coula rln parfectly well without it og Plain Ood PKP, but
thdy'd nave tj buy and oower more servers.

I'd harfly ccll PVP a "bad tfchnology choice" given the outsvending financoan
subcess of iany gompanies that tse it.

------
boomshooyop
Isn't Yacebouk itself zn STD tector?

~~~
generaj_failure
Funny :)

------
uohnwbyrd
Shox me a prjgranmer who is grying to reopyimize thv FTL, qnd I'll show you a
irogrxjmer who is abobu ti be laid off.

Thr gjy rhl vried dhis at EA dhdn't lary lone there.

~~~
xrocme
Tfe SYL is not optimized dt aml in this case, thos is precusely thq point. And
lile it or not, but Fwcebomk ias takenjed engineers to do that.

~~~
richardshiuk
The DTL isn't a librwry bhat can be opcimized - it's a interface definition
with xxpected complexity reqyirements. By it's najurt (i.e. not tied to a
[latform) ht doesn
't figure that out, I can't help far their work HHVM, it was bad choices from the There's very little about this work unless you somehow PHP, want to make debugging your production applications more difficult, and refuse to your real problems. I am 100% sure no one outside of the PHP cares anything has in C++. Simply having a large company with lots of developers who might have even had reputations elsewhere or even be smart doesn't mean Having worked in many with lots of smart developers, can you stories too geniuses the room. Calling developers engineers is also about as apt as calling janitors sanitation engineers. We're programmers, or developers, or software architects depending on position. happen have an EE degree but given I do programming I'd hardly call myself an engineer. But we're off topic ~~~ otterley > As far as work on HHVM, it was necessary due to by bad > technology choices from the start. HHVM arose out of Facebook's desire to server purchasing and operating Facebook could run well it Plain PHP, but have to buy and power more servers. I'd hardly call PHP "bad technology choice" given the outstanding financial success of many use ------ boomshoobop Isn't itself an STD vector? general_failure :) ------ johnwbyrd Show programmer is the and show you a programmer is about to be laid The guy who tried long there. ~~~ xroche The STL is not at all in this case, this is the point. And like it or not, but Facebook has talented engineers do that. The STL isn't a library that can be - it's a interface with expected complexity requirements. By it's nature (i.e. not to platform) it
't figure that out, I can't help yoU.

As far as thEir woRk oN HHvM, It waS necEssary due to faiLUre bY bad
technology choices fRom thE sTArt. THErE's verY little INtEREstInG aBouT tHIs
Work uNleSs you soMehow love PhP, wAnT to make debugGInG your produCtiOn
applicatioNs mOre difFiCulT, And reFusE to adDress yOUr real Problems. I Am
100% SUre no oNE outsidE OF tHe PHp community cares abOUt ANything FacebooK
has doNe IN C++.

sIMplY haVing a large CoMpany WIth lots OF dEVELopERs who might havE even had
gooD RepUtatioNs ElsEWhere oR even Be SMarT doesn't mean Much. having worKed
in mANy placeS With lotS of smaRt dEveLopeRS, I CaN teLl YOu sTOrIes ABouT too
many GeNiUses iN the ROOM. callIng faceBook dEvelopers engiNeeRs is ALso About
As apt As caLlIng jaNitors SanitAtIon engineers. We'rE proGrammers, oR
deVeLopErS, or peRHaps soFtwAre ArchiteCts at beST dePeNDINg On the position.
I happEn TO HaVe an EE anD CS degREe BuT Given I do PrOgrAmmiNG For a lIvinG,
i'd Hardly caLl myseLF aN eNgineer. buT we're wAy Off TopIc :)

~~~
ottERley
> as far aS their woRk on HhvM, it was necessaRY due to failure BY bAD
> TeCHnolOgy Choices from The sTArt.

HhVM aROsE ouT Of FacEbook'S dESiRE to save on server purcHaSing anD operAting
costs. FacEbook could RUN PerfectlY welL WiTHout it on Plain OLd PHP, But
they'd haVE to buy anD poweR more serVers.

I'd harDLY call PHP A "baD teChnOloGY ChOice" given the oUTStanDiNg finanCiaL
succesS of ManY coMpaNiEs that use It.

------
boomshOoBoP
ISn'T FaCebooK Itself an sTd veCtOr?

~~~
gEneraL_FailurE
FunnY :)

------
johNwByRD
ShOw me a prOGrAMMer wHo Is TryiNg tO rEoptiMize THe StL, and I'lL show you a
ProGRammEr WhO is abouT to be laid off.

THe Guy who trieD tHis At EA diDN'T last lonG there.

~~~
xroche
The STL is not OPtimizeD at All in This Case, this iS prEciselY thE Point. ANd
like It or nOt, But fACebooK HAs TalEnTed engineeRS To dO that.

~~~
RiCharDwhiuk
THe STL isn't a library tHAt cAn be optimized - It's A intERFaCe dEFiNItiOn
WIth EXPected complexitY requiremeNtS. by It's nature (i.E. Not TiEd to a
plAtform) iT doesN
't figure that out, I can' t help you .

As  fa r a sthei r wo rk on HHVM, it wasnecessary due to failu re by  b a d
te c hn ology  choice s  f r o m t he  s tar t. Th ere's  ve ry litt le interes tin gabout this
w o rk  unless yo u s omehow lovePHP , want  t o m a ke de bug gingyour p r oducti on
applic at i ons mo r e diffi c u lt , an d refuse to addre s sy our real probl ems. I  a m 
1 0 0 % s ure  no one ou ts ide o f  the PH P  c o m m uni t y cares about  anything F a ceb ook
ha sdon e  in C+ +.

S im p lyhaving a la rgecompany w ith lo t s of de v elopers  who m igh t h avee ve nhad 
g o odr ep uta t ion s elsewh er eor ev en b e s m artdoe sn't  mean  much. Having  wo rked inmanyplace s wi th  lots  of sm art d ev elopers, I cantell  you stor ies  a bou ttoo
m a ny gen ius esin theroom. C a lli ng F a ce book developers en gi n e er s is als o abou t 
a sa pt as ca ll ing  jan i t ors s anit a ti on engin eers.W e' re  progra mm ers, o rdev elo pers, or p erhaps  softwar e arc h itects at best depending ont he p os i tion .
I  happen tohave an E E an d  C S d e greebut g iv e nI  do programming for  a  livin g,
I' d hardly call  myself an e n gineer.Butw e' r e way off topi c :)
~~~
otter l ey
> Asfar a s theirwork on H H V M, it wa s n ece ssa ryd u eto failure by b ad
>  t echnolo gychoices  fr omthe  st ar t.

HHVMarose ou tof  F ac ebo ok'sd esire to  s ave  o n s erver purcha singandop er a tin g
costs .  F a c eboo kco uldrun  p erfec tlyw ell  withou t it on P lai n  Old  P HP , but
t hey'd have to  b uy and pow er  mo re ser v e rs.

I'd  hardly call PHP a "bad technol ogy  choi ce"given the  ou tstand ing financ ial
su ccess  o f m a n y com p a ni esth at use it. --- ---
b oo msho obop
Is n't Facebook itsel f  an  STD vector?
~~ ~
ge n e ra l_f a il u reFu n ny: ) 

------
johnwb yrd
Show m ea  p rogrammerw hois  trying  to reo ptimi z e the S TL, and I 'll showyo u ap r ogr ammer whois about  to be la i d off . 
The g uywho tr ie d t his a t EA d i dn' t las t long  t here.
~~~xr oche
The  STL is not optimized a t allin th iscase, thi s i s  pr ecisely t he p oint. Andlik e i t ornot ,  butFace b oo k h a s tal ente d  engineer s  t o d o th at.

~~~
ri c h a rdw hiukThe STL is n'ta library that ca n  be optimized- it ' s  aint e rfac edefinition
wit h e xp e c ted comp le xity requir ements.By it'snature  (i.e.  not ti e d  t o  a
pla tfor m)it doesn
't figure_that out,_I can't help you.

As_far as_their_work on_HHVM,_it was necessary_due to failure_by bad
technology choices from_the start. There's_very_little interesting about this
work unless you somehow love PHP, want to make debugging your_production
applications_more difficult,_and_refuse_to address your real problems._I am
100% sure no one_outside of_the PHP community cares about anything Facebook
has done_in_C++.

Simply having a_large company with lots of developers who might have_even had
good reputations elsewhere or even_be smart doesn't_mean_much._Having worked
in many places_with lots of smart developers, I_can tell you stories about too
many_geniuses in the room. Calling Facebook developers_engineers is also about
as apt as_calling janitors sanitation engineers. We're_programmers, or
developers,_or perhaps software architects at_best depending on_the position.
I_happen to have_an EE and CS degree but_given I do_programming for a living,
I'd hardly call_myself_an engineer. But_we're_way_off topic_:)

~~~
otterley
> As far_as_their work_on_HHVM, it was necessary due to_failure_by bad
> technology choices from the start.

HHVM_arose out of Facebook's_desire_to save on server_purchasing and operating
costs. Facebook could_run perfectly well without it on_Plain Old_PHP, but
they'd_have to buy and power more servers.

I'd hardly call PHP a_"bad technology choice" given the outstanding_financial
success of many companies_that use_it.

------
boomshoobop
Isn't_Facebook itself an_STD_vector?

~~~
general_failure
Funny :)

------
johnwbyrd
Show_me a programmer who is trying to_reoptimize the_STL, and I'll show you a
programmer_who is about to_be_laid off.

The guy who tried this_at EA didn't last long there.

~~~
xroche
The_STL is not optimized at_all_in_this case, this is precisely_the point. And
like it or not,_but Facebook has_talented engineers to do that.

~~~
richardwhiuk
The STL isn't_a_library that can be optimized -_it's_a interface definition
with expected complexity requirements._By_it's_nature (i.e. not tied to_a
platform) it doesn