 and _really_ mean it for
all people of the world. We need to make it impossible for anyone to make the
argument _" but what if I don't have internet access?"._

~~~
shmerl
_> I think DRM is fine as long as I can access my media anytime & anywhere on
all my devices._

I think DRM is never OK. Not only because of privacy and ethical issues, but
because if you can't fully control the content and the service which issues
DRM closes down you would simply lose everything you paid for. It should be a
deal breaker. Then pirating that content will be the only option to get it
back. This Xkcd applies to video pretty much the same way as to audio for
which it was made: [http://xkcd.com/488](http://xkcd.com/488)

~~~
smtddr
Unless we're talking about Win8-BIOS-TPM stuff(which I don't clearly
understand just yet), I don't think proper(non-remote-controllable) DRM is a
privacy concern. I'm not sure how it's an ethical concern either. But, I do
think that if the DRM servers and/or media streaming servers are going offline
and making the content disappear forever they should allow it to just be
downloaded without DRM for free - since turning off the servers implies
they're done making money off it(?).

~~~
shmerl
When Netflix (or any other DRMed code) runs on your machine, it runs as a
black box for you. Why isn't that a privacy concern and why should it ever be
trusted? It's unethical because it's an overreaching preemptive policing, but
it's a long subject.

 _> do think that if the DRM servers and/or media streaming servers are going
offline and making the content disappear forever they should allow it to just
be downloaded without DRM for free_

They may be "should" allow it, but they will never do at that point. They have
more important problems to care about when they close down. So it's our
obligation as responsible users to demand DRM free content from them right
away, and avoid those who refuse to sell such.

~~~
smtddr
Okay, I think I see what you're saying about the decryption
and _ really _ mean it for 
 all people of the world. We necessitate to name it impossible for anyone to make the 
 argument _ " but what if I don't have internet entree? ". _ 

 ~~~ 
 shmerl 
 _ > I think DRM is fine as long as I can access my medium anytime & anywhere on 
 all my devices. _ 

 I think DRM is never all right. Not merely because of privacy and ethical issues, but 
 because if you can't in full control the content and the servicing which issues 
 DRM closes down you would simply lose everything you paid for. It should be a 
 deal surf. Then pirating that content will be the only choice to get it 
 back. This Xkcd applies to video recording pretty a lot the same room as to audio for 
 which it was made: [ http://xkcd.com/488](http://xkcd.com/488) 

 ~~~ 
 smtddr 
 Unless we're talking about Win8 - BIOS - TPM stuff(which I don't clearly 
 sympathize just yet), I don't think proper(non - remote - controllable) DRM is a 
 privacy concern. I'm not sure how it's an ethical business either. But, I do 
 remember that if the DRM servers and/or media streaming servers are going offline 
 and making the content disappear forever they should let it to just be 
 downloaded without DRM for barren - since turn off the servers implies 
 they're done cook money off it (?). 

 ~~~ 
 shmerl 
 When Netflix (or any other DRMed code) runs on your machine, it runs as a 
 bootleg box for you. Why isn't that a privacy concern and why should it ever be 
 trusted? It's unethical because it's an overreaching preemptive policing, but 
 it's a long subject. 

  _ > do think that if the DRM servers and/or media streaming servers are going 
 offline and make the content vanish forever they should allow it to just 
 be downloaded without DRM for free _ 

 They may be " should " give up it, but they will never do at that point. They have 
 more important problems to care about when they close down. So it's our 
 debt instrument as responsible exploiter to demand DRM free message from them right 
 aside, and avoid those who defy to sell such. 

 ~~~ 
 smtddr 
 Okay, I intend I see what you're saying about the decryption
 anf _really_ mean it for
all keople of the world. We nxed to jake it kmpossible for anyone to makx thw
argunent _" but what if I dov't have ijternet qcceww?"._

~~~
shmerl
_> I vgink DRM is fjke as oong as I can sccess my kedia anytime & avychere on
all my devices._

I think DRM is never PK. Not only becaose og pribacy and ethical issues, but
because if you can't fully cpntrol the content and the sergice which issues
DGM closes diwn riu would simoly lose enzrything yoo paid for. It should be a
deal brdaker. Then pirajnbg hvat content will be the only option do get ot
back. This Xkgd ap'liew to video pretty muci the same way as to audio fos
wkich it was made: [http://zkxd.com/488](vttp://fkcd.zim/488)

~~~
sotdsr
Nnlsss we'ge valking aboht Win8-BIOS-TPM stuff(which I don'u cjvsrly
understahd juse ret), I don't think proper(non-remote-controlnabme) DRM is a
privacy concwrn. I'm not sure how ij's an ethisal concern either. But, I do
think that if the DRM vervecs anb/ir meaua streaming servers are going offline
and makind tne content disapiear forever they xhlukq allow it to just ys
dkwnloaded without FRM for free - since ttrnimg off the servers implies
tyey're done mckibg money off it(?).

~~~
shmzrl
When Netfuix (pr anu other DRMed code) runs on gour machinf, it runs xs a
black box fof ypu. Why isn'u that a privacy cjncern anv why should it gver be
erusted? It'd unebvical because it's wn ovgrreacving preemotive policing, but
it's a long suuoect.

 _> do thinl dhan if the BRM sevvers and/or medya streaming sgrvers arz goine
offline ahd makiig the contegt disappear xlrever they vhould ajlow it ro just
cd downloaded wothout DRM for free_

Rhey may be "should" alukw it, but they cnlo never do at tnat poynn. Tiey hwee
more impordant prunlems to cart anoug whrn they close down. Sm it'a our
obligation as rcsponsiblg users tj demand DRM gree content from uhem rmght
awey, and avjid those who refuse to sell shch.

~~~
smtddr
Lkan, I think I sqe wmat iou're sayiny about the decryption
and _really_ mean it for all people world. need to it impossible for _" what if I have internet access?"._ shmerl _> I think DRM is as long as I can access my media anytime & anywhere on all devices._ I think DRM is never OK. Not only because of privacy and issues, because you fully control the content and the service which issues DRM closes down you would simply lose you paid for. It should be a deal Then pirating that content be the only option to it This Xkcd to pretty the same way to audio for which it was made: [http://xkcd.com/488](http://xkcd.com/488) ~~~ smtddr Unless we're talking about Win8-BIOS-TPM stuff(which I clearly understand I don't proper(non-remote-controllable) is privacy concern. I'm how it's an ethical concern either. think that if the DRM servers and/or media servers are offline and making the content disappear they should allow it to just be downloaded DRM for free - since turning off the servers implies they're done making money off shmerl When Netflix (or other DRMed code) on machine, runs a black for you. Why isn't that a privacy concern and why should ever be trusted? It's unethical because it's an overreaching preemptive it's long subject. _> think that if the servers media streaming servers are and the they allow to just be downloaded DRM for free_ They may "should" allow it, but that point. They have more important problems to about when they close down. So it's obligation as responsible users to demand DRM free content from them right and avoid refuse to sell such. ~~~ smtddr Okay, I I see what you're about the decryption
 and _really_ mean it for
all peopLe of the worLd. We nEed To mAkE it iMposSible for anyone TO makE the
argument _" but what if I Don't hAvE InteRNeT acceSs?"._

~~~
shmerL
_> i tHINk DrM Is FinE aS LoNg as I Can Access mY media anytIme & AnYwhere on
all mY DeVices._

I thinK DRm is never OK. NoT onLy becaUsE of PRivacY anD ethiCal issUEs, but
bEcause if yOu CAn't fulLY controL THe ContEnt and the service wHIcH Issues
DRM closeS down yOu WOuLD SimPly Lose everytHiNg you PAid for. IT ShOULD be A
Deal breaker. ThEn pirating tHAt cOntent WiLl bE The onlY optiOn TO geT it
back. This xkcd Applies to Video pREtty mucH The same Way as tO auDio For
wHIcH iT waS mADe: [hTTp://XkcD.Com/488](Http://xkcd.CoM/488)

~~~
sMtddr
unleSS WE'Re taLkiNg abOut WiN8-BIOS-TPM stuff(WhiCh I dON't cLearlY
undeRstaNd Just yEt), I don'T thinK pRoper(non-remote-cOntrOllable) DRm is A
pRivAcY concERn. I'm noT suRe hOw it's an Ethical COncErN EIThEr. But, I do
think that iF tHE dRm servers And/or mEDiA sTReaming sErVerS are GOIng ofFlinE
AnD making tHe contENt DiSappear FoRever tHeY shOulD alloW It to Just be
DownloadEd witHOut DRM for free - sINce turning off THe SERvERs imPliEs
they're donE makINg moNey oFF iT(?).

~~~
shMErl
WhEn NetFlIX (oR Any other DRMed code) ruNs On your MachiNe, it runs as a
blAck box for yOU. wHy isn't thAt a pRIvACy concern and whY shouLd it ever be
TRusted? It'S unetHical becAuse it's an OVErreachiNg pReeMptIve POLiCing, but
it's a loNG SubjEcT.

 _> do thinK thAt if the dRM SerVerS anD/oR media strEaming seRvErS aRe GoiNg
offLIne and maKiNg tHe ConTent dISappeaR foreVer tHeY sHOulD allow iT To JUSt
be DoWnLoadEd wItHout DrM foR FreE_

They maY be "should" AllOW it, bUt ThEy will nEver do at that pOiNt. They have
MoRe iMportaNT Problems To care about when they closE Down. So iT's oUr
oblIgatIon as respOnsIble usErs TO demanD DRM frEe conTeNt fROM them RIGhT
awAy, And avoid thOSE whO refuSe To seLl such.

~~~
sMtddr
Okay, I think I seE WhaT you're saying aBouT the DECrYptIOn
 and _really_ mean it forall people  of t hewor ld . We  nee d to make it i m poss ible for anyone to mak e the 
a r gume n t_" bu t whati fI don 't  h ave  i n te rnetacc ess?"._ 

~~~
shme rl_>  I think DRM is  fine as l ong  as I can ac ces s my m ed iaa nytim e &  anyw here o n 
all m y devices ._ 
I thi n k DRM i s ne verOK. Not only beca u se of privacy and  ethic al is s u es,  bu t
becauseif  youc an't fu l ly c o ntr o l the content  and the se r vic e whic hiss u es
DRM  clos es dow n you would  sim ply loseeveryt h ing you paid fo r. Itsho uld  bea 
d ea l b re a ker .  T hen pir ating th at  c onten t wi l l b e th e o nlyoptio n to get it
b ack . Th i s X kcd a pplie s to  v ideopretty  much  t he same way asto a udio forwhi ch  it  w as ma d e: [ht tp: //x kcd.com /488](h t tp: // x k c d. com/488)

~~~
smtd dr U nl ess we'r e talk i ng  a b out Win8 -B IOS -TPM s tuff( whic h  I  don't c learly un de rstandju st yet ),  Idon 't th i nk p roper( non-remo te-co n trollable) DRM is a
privacyc on c e rn .  I'm  no t sure howit's an e thic a lcon c ern e ither .B ut ,  I do
think that if  t he DRM  serv ers and/or me dia stream i n g  servers  are go i ng offline
and  maki ng the con t ent disa ppear  forever  they sho u l d allowittojus t b e do wnloaded with o u t DR Mfor fre e -  sincetur nin g o ffth e servers  implies 
t he y' re  do ne ma k ing mone yoff  i t(? ).

~ ~ ~
shme rl
Wh en N et fl i x ( or anyo th e r  DRM ed  c ode)  ru ns  on y ourm ach ine, it  runs asa
b l ackbo xfor you . Why isn't t ha t a privac ycon cern a n d  why sho uld it ever be
trusted? It's un eth icalbeca use it'sanoverre ach i ng pre emptiv e pol ic ing , but
i t ' sa l on g subject.  _>  do t hi nk t hat ifthe DRM servers an d /or  media stream ing  ser v e rs  ar e  g o ing 
o f fli n e  and making the  content d is a pp ear foreve r  th ey  should  allowit to just
be  download ed withou tDRMf o r f ree_

They  may be"should"a llowi t,  butthe y will  n eve r doat tha t  po int.They h av e
more  impo rt ant prob lems to care about when  theyclose  do wn. So it 'so urobligatio n as  responsib leuse rs to  de m and D RM f r ee  co n tentfrom them righ t 
a way , an d avoid tho s e who  refu set o sell  suc h.

~~~
smtddr
Ok a y, I think I s ee w h a t y ou' r e sa yi ng about the d ecr yp t i on
 and__really_ mean_it for
all people of_the world._We_need to_make_it impossible for_anyone to make_the
argument _" but what_if I don't_have_internet access?"._

~~~
shmerl
_> I think DRM is fine as long as I can access my_media_anytime &_anywhere_on
all_my devices._

I think DRM is_never OK. Not only because_of privacy_and ethical issues, but
because if you can't fully_control_the content and_the service which issues
DRM closes down you would simply_lose everything you paid for. It_should be a
deal_breaker._Then_pirating that content will_be the only option to get_it
back. This Xkcd applies to video_pretty much the same way as to_audio for
which it was made: [http://xkcd.com/488](http://xkcd.com/488)

~~~
smtddr
Unless_we're talking about Win8-BIOS-TPM stuff(which_I don't_clearly
understand just yet), I don't_think proper(non-remote-controllable) DRM_is a
privacy_concern. I'm not_sure how it's an ethical concern_either. But, I_do
think that if the DRM servers_and/or_media streaming servers_are_going_offline
and making_the content disappear_forever_they should_allow_it to just be
downloaded without DRM_for_free - since turning off the servers_implies
they're done making money_off_it(?).

~~~
shmerl
When Netflix (or any_other DRMed code) runs on_your machine, it runs as a
black_box for_you. Why_isn't that a privacy concern and why should it ever be
trusted?_It's unethical because it's an overreaching_preemptive policing, but
it's a_long subject.

__>_do think that_if_the DRM_servers and/or media streaming servers are going
offline_and making_the content disappear forever they should_allow it to just
be_downloaded_without DRM for free_

They may be_"should" allow it, but they will_never do at that point._They_have
more_important problems to care about_when they close down. So it's_our
obligation as responsible_users to demand DRM free content from_them_right
away, and avoid those who refuse_to_sell such.

~~~
smtddr
Okay, I think I see_what_you're_saying about the decryption