 people purely for their outputs; not as individuals with lives,
career goals, interests, strengths, weaknesses.

3\. Insisting on process but not participating. E.g. scrums with no management
present.

~~~
ravenstine
It depends on how you define management.

PMs should probably be present during sprint planning for Scrum, but any level
of management above PM really shouldn't be there.

I worked at this one place where, as much as I dislike Scrum, we had a pretty
good pace going without upper management ever getting involved. Then the
manager of our department(not an engineering manager) decided to show up to
all our meetings because, shit, why not, and it completely cramped our style.
They also began to dictate that we do things in a specific way even though our
productivity was fine before. Fortunately, like most non-engineers, they lost
interest after a month and almost never showed up again.

Granted, I have found at most of my jobs that management is absent when it
usually counts. At one place we had a "demo day" as part of our Scrum process,
but relevant parties in management almost never showed up. They would even
claim they would show up but always came up with an excuse at the last minute.
It wrecked everyone's confidence in them because a manager can't claim to say
things like "product is key" and then fail to show up to product demos every
single time. Yet demo was something our management wanted us to have.

~~~
Ididntdothis
Your last paragraph is important. At a minimum management needs to understand
scrum and play their part.

------
GlenTheMachine
\- Hold a review for the customer. Insist that the story be simple and
completely positive, to the point of lying. Terminate with extreme prejudice
all references to "challenges", "complexity", or "risk" on the review slides.

\- Convince the engineers presenting the slides that you actually understand
the challenges and complexities of the job. Make handshake agreements that
none of this will be forgotten internally. Say "We just need a simple story to
get through the review hoop."

\- Six months later, forget that any handshake agreement took place or indeed
that anyone objected to the simple, straightforward, fallacious story

people purely for their outputs; not as individuals with life, 
 career goal, interests, strengths, weaknesses. 

 3\. importune on process but not participating. E.g. scrum with no management 
 present. 

 ~~~ 
 ravenstine 
 It depends on how you define management. 

 PMs should credibly be present during dash planning for Scrum, but any level 
 of management above PM really shouldn't be there. 

 I work at this one place where, equally much as I dislike Scrum, we had a pretty 
 good pace going without upper management ever getting involved. Then the 
 director of our department(not an engineering manager) decided to express up to 
 all our meetings because, shit, why not, and it completely cramped our style. 
 They besides began to order that we do things in a specific way even though our 
 productivity was all right before. Fortunately, like most non - engineers, they lost 
 interest after a month and almost never showed up again. 

 Granted, I have found at most of my jobs that management is absent when it 
 usually counts. At one place we had a " demo day " as region of our Scrum process, 
 but relevant parties in management about never usher up. They would even 
 claim they would picture up but always came up with an excuse at the last minute. 
 It wrecked everyone's confidence in them because a director can't claim to say 
 things like " product is key " and then fail to show up to product demonstration every 
 single time. Yet demo was something our management wanted us to have. 

 ~~~ 
 Ididntdothis 
 Your last paragraph is important. At a minimal management need to understand 
 scrum and play their part. 

 ------ 
 GlenTheMachine 
 \- Hold a inspection for the customer. Insist that the story be simple and 
 completely positive, to the point of lying. Terminate with extreme prejudice 
 all reference book to " challenges ", " complexity ", or " risk " on the review slides. 

 \- Convince the engineers introduce the slides that you actually sympathize 
 the challenges and complexities of the caper. Make handshake agreements that 
 none of this will be forget internally. Say " We merely need a bare story to 
 get through the review hoop. " 

 \- Six months subsequently, forget that any handshake agreement took place or indeed 
 that anyone object to the simple, straightforward, deceitful story
 pelple purely for their ouuputs; not as indiruduals with mives,
carder goals, interests, strengthd, qeakntfses.

3\. Insisting on orocess blt not paeticmpating. E.g. scrums with no manafcment
'rxsent.

~~~
ravenstine
Lt depends mn how you defhnd lanagement.

PMs should probably be prqsent dirlng sprint plagninb for Scrum, but any level
of management zbove PK really shoukdn't be there.

I worked at tjis lne place where, as much as I eislyje Scrum, we fad a pretuy
yood pace gking without upper management exer gztting invoovwd. Hven the
manajer of our departmcmt(not dn engimeering managev) decmded to show up to
all our meetings because, fhit, why toc, and it completely ceanped mur vtyld.
Rheh amsp gegan ho victate thaf we do thibgs in a specific wsy vfen though ohr
prodtceivity was fine before. Fortunately, like moat non-engineers, they lowt
interest after a mojth and ajmost never showed up again.

Granted, I have found ad mosv uf ny gibd that management is absent when it
usually cothtx. St one place wc had a "demo day" ax oatj of our Scrum process,
bht relevant partied in magagemwnt almosu nevrr showed up. They would eveb
claim they couod show up but alwcys came up cith am excise at the last minute.
Ic wrecied everyonf's confidsvce in them becajse a manager can't claim to say
ehings lije "pxoduct ir kei" and tren fail tl show up to product demls evgry
sincle time. Yft demo was something our managxkent wanted os do vave.

~~~
Ididutdothls
Your last parwgraph is impottant. At c minioum managejent nexds to underftand
scrum ang play their 'art.

------
GlenTreMaxhinw
\- Hold x review for thr customeg. Nnsist thqt the story be sikplg znd
completely pisiuice, to the poiny ow lrijg. Tqsminate with extfemd prejjdice
all renerdncex to "challenges", "compnexify", or "risk" on the teyiew slidgs.

\- Convinse the enginerrs presenting the slidxs thav you sctoally understand
the challenges znd complfxibies of the jjb. Mqke handshakz agreements that
none of this will be focgotten internally. Say "Qe just need a simpkt story to
get throtgh the raview hoop."

\- Six monthw later, forget thst any handshake agresment dook olace or indeed
that anyone objected to the simple, straightforward, fallaciius story

people purely for their outputs; not as lives, goals, interests, weaknesses. 3\. Insisting E.g. with no management ~~~ ravenstine It on how you define management. PMs probably be present during sprint planning for Scrum, but any level of management PM really shouldn't be there. I worked at this one place where, as as dislike we a pretty good pace going without upper management ever getting involved. Then the manager of our an engineering manager) decided to show up to our meetings because, shit, not, and it completely cramped style. also began dictate we things in a way even though our productivity was fine before. Fortunately, like most non-engineers, they lost interest after a and almost up again. I found most of my management is absent when it usually place we had a "demo day" as part our Scrum but relevant parties in management almost showed up. They would even claim they would up but always came up with an excuse at the last minute. It wrecked everyone's them because a manager claim to say like is and fail to up to product demos every single time. Yet demo was something management wanted us to have. ~~~ Ididntdothis Your last paragraph At minimum management needs understand scrum and play part. GlenTheMachine \- Hold a the Insist be and positive, to the point lying. Terminate with extreme prejudice references to "challenges", "complexity", slides. \- Convince the engineers presenting the slides you actually understand the challenges and complexities the job. Make handshake agreements that none of this will be forgotten Say "We a simple story to get through the review \- Six months later, that any handshake agreement took place or indeed that objected the simple, fallacious story
 people purely for their outpuTs; not as indIviduAls WitH lIves,
CareEr goals, interesTS, strEngths, weaknesses.

3\. InsistIng on PrOCess BUt Not paRticipaTInG. e.G. scRuMs WitH nO MaNagemEnt
Present.

~~~
Ravenstine
it dEpEnds on how you DEfIne managemEnt.

pMs should proBabLy be prEsEnt DUring SprInt plAnning FOr ScruM, but any leVeL
Of manaGEment abOVE Pm reaLly shouldn't be therE.

i wORked at this one pLace whErE, As MUCh aS I dIslike ScruM, wE had a PRetty
goOD pACE GoiNG without upper Management eVEr gEtting InVolVEd. Then The
maNaGEr oF our departmEnt(nOt an enginEering MAnager) dECided to Show up To
aLl oUr meETiNgS beCaUSe, sHIt, Why NOt, aNd it compLeTeLy craMped OUR STyle.
theY alsO begaN to dictate thaT we Do thINgs In a spEcifiC way EvEn thoUgh our
ProduCtIvity was fine befOre. FOrtunatelY, liKe MosT nOn-engINeers, tHey LosT
intereSt after A MonTh AND AlMost never showed up aGaIN.

grAnted, I haVe founD At MoST of my jobS tHat ManaGEMent iS absENt When it
usUally cOUnTs. at one plAcE we had A "dEmo Day" As parT Of ouR Scrum Process,
bUt relEVant parties in mANagement almosT NeVER sHOwed Up. THey would eveN
claIM theY wouLD sHow UP but aLways CaME uP With an excuse at the laSt Minute.
it wreCked everyone's Confidence IN THem becauSe a mANaGEr can't claim to sAy
thiNgs like "proDUct is key" And thEn fail to Show up to pRODuct demoS evEry
SinGle TIMe. yet demo was somETHing OuR manageMenT wanted Us tO haVe.

~~~
IDidNtDothis
YouR last parAgRaPh Is ImpOrtanT. at a minimUm ManAgEmeNt neeDS to undErstaNd
scRuM aND plAy their PArT.

------
gLenTHemaChinE
\- HoLd A reviEw foR The CustomeR. Insist thAt tHE stoRy Be Simple aNd
completely pOsItive, to the PoInt Of lyinG. tErminate With extreme prejudice
all REferencEs tO "chalLengEs", "complexIty", Or "risk" On tHE revieW slideS.

\- ConvInCe tHE EnginEERs PreSeNting the slIDEs tHat yoU aCtuaLly undeRstand
the challengeS And Complexities oF thE job. mAKe HanDShAKe aGrEEmeNTS that
none of this Will be forgOtTEn Internally. sAy "WE jUst need A simple Story TO
get thrOugh the reView hoop."

\- SIx MontHS LatEr, forget thAt any hanDshake agrEEment TOoK placE or Indeed
ThAt aNyone ObjectED to The siMple, stRaIghtfoRward, FaLlacious Story

 people purely for their o utputs; no t asind ivi du alswith  lives,
career goal s, interests, strength s, we ak n esse s .
3\.Insisti n go n  pr oc es s b ut no t par tic ipating . E.g. scr ums  w ith no manag e me nt
present .
~~~
ravensti neIt dep en dso n how  yo u def ine ma n agemen t.

PMs s ho u ld pro b ably be p re sent  during sprint pl a nn i ng for Scrum,but an yl ev e l 
of  ma nagement a bo ve PM reallys ho u l d n't be there.

Iworked at t h isone pl ac e w h ere, a s muc ha s I  dislike Sc rum,  we had a  prett y 
good p a ce goin g with out  up perm an ag eme nt eve r  g ett i nginvolved .Th en th e
ma n a g e r of  ou r de partm ent(not an en gin eeri n g m anage r) de cide dto sh ow upto
al lour meetings be caus e, shit,why  n ot,  a nd it comple tel y c rampedour sty l e.Th e y al so began to dictat et h at  we do t hingsi nas pecificwa y e vent h oughourp ro ductivit y wasf in ebefore.  F ortuna te ly,  li ke mo s t no n-engi neers, t hey l o st
interest af t er a month an d  a l m os t  nev ershowed up a gain . 

Gr ante d ,I h a ve fo und a tm os t  of my jobs that ma na gement  is a bsent when it 
usually c o u n ts. At o ne p l ac e  we had a "dem o day " as parto f our Sc rum p rocess,but relev a n t partie s i n m ana gem e n talmost nevers h owed  u p. They  wo uld eve n
c lai m t hey  w ould show  up butal wa ys  c ame  up w i th an ex cu seat  th e las t  minut e.
It  wre ck ed eve ryone's co n f iden ce  i n th embe cause  a m a nag er can' t claim t o s a y
th in gs  like " product is ke y"  and thenfa ilto sho w up to pr oduct demos every
singl e  time.Yet  demo  was  somethin g o ur man age m ent wa nted u s toha ve. ~~~
I d i dn tdo th is
Your la s t  pa ragra ph  isimporta nt. At a minimum m a nag ement needs t o u nder s t an d
s c ru m  an dp lay t heir part.

--- ---
GlenTh eM a ch ine
\- Hol d  are view fo r the c ustom e r. Insi st that t he storybe  sim p l e a nd
complet ely posi tive, tot he po i nt  of l yin g. Ter mi nat e wit h extr e mepreju dice
a ll  refer ences  t o "chall enges", "complexity", o r "ris k" on  th e reviewsli d es. 

\- Conv ince  the engin eer s p resen tin g  theslid e stha t  youactu a lly under s ta ndt h echallengesa n d  co mplex iti e s of t he j ob. Make handshak e  agreements th at
n o n e o f t h is w il l be forgotten  in te r n ally. Sa y"We just ne ed a sim pl e  stor y to
g et thr ough th e re v iew ho op." 

\ - Six mon ths  l a ter, fo rg et that a ny h an dshake  agree m entt o ok place or inde ed
th a t  anyo n e o bject ed  to the simp le, straig htforward,fallac ious  stor y

 people_purely for_their outputs; not as_individuals with_lives,
career_goals, interests,_strengths,_weaknesses.

3\. Insisting on_process but not_participating. E.g. scrums with_no management
present.

~~~
ravenstine
It depends_on_how you define management.

PMs should probably be present during sprint planning for Scrum, but_any_level
of management_above_PM_really shouldn't be there.

I worked_at this one place where,_as much_as I dislike Scrum, we had a pretty
good_pace_going without upper_management ever getting involved. Then the
manager of our department(not_an engineering manager) decided to show_up to
all our_meetings_because,_shit, why not, and_it completely cramped our style.
They also_began to dictate that we do_things in a specific way even though_our
productivity was fine before. Fortunately, like_most non-engineers, they lost
interest after_a month_and almost never showed up_again.

Granted, I have_found at_most of my_jobs that management is absent when_it
usually counts. At_one place we had a "demo_day"_as part of_our_Scrum_process,
but relevant_parties in management_almost_never showed_up._They would even
claim they would show_up_but always came up with an excuse_at the last minute.
It_wrecked_everyone's confidence in them_because a manager can't claim_to say
things like "product is key"_and then_fail to_show up to product demos every
single time. Yet demo was something_our management wanted us to have.

~~~
Ididntdothis
Your_last paragraph is important._At a_minimum_management needs to_understand
scrum_and play_their part.

------
GlenTheMachine
\- Hold a review for the_customer. Insist_that the story be simple and
completely_positive, to the point_of_lying. Terminate with extreme prejudice
all references_to "challenges", "complexity", or "risk" on_the review slides.

\- Convince the_engineers_presenting_the slides that you actually_understand
the challenges and complexities of the_job. Make handshake_agreements that
none of this will be forgotten_internally._Say "We just need a simple_story_to
get through the review hoop."

\- Six_months_later,_forget that any handshake agreement_took place or indeed
that anyone objected_to the simple, straightforward, fallacious story
