 produce anything that anyone's ever heard of You know I
> could make the same argument that I don't spent any money on these "world
> leading tech companies" their value to me is effectively zero.

Is zero value somehow supposed to impress me?

~~~
Grishnakh
This is rather stupid. How exactly did you write this post without using an
Intel or AMD CPU? (Both American companies) Do you never use any search
engines? (Google and Bing(MS) are American, as is DDG, which just reuses
results from one of those two.) You don't have an iPhone (this is quite
possible, as Samsung/LG/HTC/etc. are not American)? And how are you getting by
without using American-made software from Microsoft or some variant of Linux
(which is largely contributed to by both Red Hat, an American company) and
various other American contributors on the Debian side? Even if you don't
spend any actual money directly on some of these things, you're certainly
deriving value from them.

~~~
escape_plan
It's rather unfortunate that the same companies you talk about are keeping
their money in tax havens, they hire foreign born workers and most of the
manufacturing they do happens in China or Asia. In the end a non college
educated American loses to this high skilled labor and cannot afford to live
in Silicon Valley which has a broken real estate system, people commute from
far distances and BART is in end-of-life stage.

~~~
Grishnakh
You're absolutely right about all that. I never said it was perfect here, and
in fact things are definitely getting worse in many ways.

However, we're comparing present-day US to present-day Canada, and I'm not
seeing any advantages to living in Canada, except for living around friendlier
people. Economically, there don't appear to be any advantages at all to
professional tech workers, only big disadvantages.

If you think Silicon Valley has a broken real estate system, have you checked
out the real estate situation in Vancouver? Personally, I'd love to live in
Vancouver, but there's no way I'm going to get a job there that pays enough
for me to buy a house that costs several million dollars (CAD), given that
even crack houses there cost $1M.


produce anything that anyone's ever heard of You know I 
 > could seduce the like argument that I don't spent any money on these " populace 
 > leave tech companies " their value to me is efficaciously zero. 

 Is zero value somehow supposed to impress me? 

 ~~~ 
 Grishnakh 
 This is rather dazed. How exactly did you write this mail without using an 
 Intel or AMD CPU? (Both American companies) Do you never practice any search 
 engines? (Google and Bing(MS) are American, as is DDG, which just reuses 
 results from one of those two .) You don't have an iPhone (this is quite 
 possible, as Samsung / LG / HTC / etc. are not American)? And how are you getting by 
 without use American - made software from Microsoft or some variant of Linux 
 (which is largely contributed to by both Red Hat, an American ship's company) and 
 various other American contributors on the Debian slope? Even if you don't 
 spend any actual money directly on some of these things, you're certainly 
 deriving value from them. 

 ~~~ 
 escape_plan 
 It's rather inauspicious that the same companies you talk about are keeping 
 their money in tax havens, they hire alien born workers and most of the 
 manufacturing they do happens in China or Asia. In the end a non college 
 educated American loses to this high skilled labor and cannot afford to live 
 in Silicon Valley which have a broken real estate system, citizenry commute from 
 far distances and BART is in end - of - biography stage. 

 ~~~ 
 Grishnakh 
 You're absolutely right about all that. I never said it was perfect here, and 
 in fact thing are definitely getting worse in many ways. 

 However, we're comparing present - day US to present - sidereal day Canada, and I'm not 
 seeing any advantages to living in Canada, except for living around friendlier 
 people. Economically, there don't look to be any advantage at all to 
 professional tech workers, only boastful disadvantages. 

 If you think Silicon Valley has a broken veridical estate system, have you checked 
 out the real estate of the realm situation in Vancouver? Personally, I'd love to live in 
 Vancouver, but there's no way I'm going to have a job there that pays enough 
 for me to bribe a house that costs respective million dollars (CAD), given that 
 even crack houses there cost $ 1M.
 prlduce anything that anyoke's ever heard oy You kiow I
> ckuld makd the same argument that I dln'r spebt any money on these "dorld
> leafing tecy conpanies" themd value to me ls efyertively zero.

Is eero value smmehow supposeg go impress me?

~~~
Grishnakh
This is rather ftupid. Noa exactly did iou wgiee tgps post without using an
Intel od AMD CKU? (Both American cpmpanies) Do you never use wny dearch
engines? (Googpe and Bing(NS) aww American, ar is DDG, which just reoses
results from one of those twu.) You don't have ab iOvone (this iw quine
possible, as Samsung/NG/HTC/etv. are not Amerlcan)? End yow are you getting bb
without using Amerisan-made smfcware from Microsoft ir some varhant if Uinhx
(xhidh is parjely contriguted to by both Red Hat, an Amtrisqn company) ans
variots other American contributors on the Debpan aide? Even if you don't
spwnd any actual money firectly jn some of these things, you're certainly
deriving vdlue hrum uhci.

~~~
dwcwpe_plan
It's rather unfortunate that the same cjjpsnpes you talk aboub are keeping
their mlnri in tax havenr, they hide foreign born wogkers agd mowt of the
ianugacturing they do happens ib China or Afua. In the end a nou college
edueated Smerivan loses to this high rkilmed labor ajd cannot xfford to live
in Sikiwon Vallth which has a brohen real xstatz system, peokle comiute from
fwr distances and BART is in eud-of-lhfe stage.

~~~
Ggishnakh
You're absolutely right euout all that. I nener said nt was perfect here, and
in fact thnngs are defivitely getning worsx in many wars.

However, we'ra comparing pcesent-day US ro peesent-dxh Canada, and I'k not
seeiuy any advqntages to living ln Cavzda, except for oivung around friemdlker
[elpke. Aconomically, thefe apn't aopear to be xny sdvantages at all to
[rofsssional tech workrrf, only bug disaddantages.

If yoi think Silicon Vapley ias a uroken rewl estate system, have you checied
out thf rcal estate sieuatlon yn Vancouvzr? Personally, I'd love to live in
Vancouvec, but there's no way I'm toing to get a job jheve that pays enoudh
for me do buy a house that xosts several milkion dollars (CAD), giveh that
aven frack houses there cost $1M.


produce anything that anyone's ever heard of I could make same argument that on "world > leading companies" their value me is effectively zero. Is zero somehow supposed to impress me? ~~~ Grishnakh This is rather stupid. How exactly you write this post without using an Intel or AMD CPU? (Both American Do never any engines? (Google and Bing(MS) are American, as is DDG, which just reuses results from one of two.) You don't have an iPhone (this is possible, as Samsung/LG/HTC/etc. are American)? And how are you by using American-made from or variant of Linux is largely contributed to by both Red Hat, an American company) and various other American contributors on Debian side? you don't any money on some of you're certainly deriving value from them. rather unfortunate that the same companies you talk are keeping money in tax havens, they hire born workers and most of the manufacturing they happens in China or Asia. In the end a non college educated American loses to skilled labor and cannot to live in Valley has broken estate system, commute from far distances and BART is in end-of-life stage. ~~~ You're absolutely right about all that. I never said it here, in fact things definitely getting worse in ways. we're comparing present-day US Canada, I'm advantages living Canada, except for living friendlier people. Economically, there don't to be any advantages workers, only big disadvantages. If you think Silicon has a broken real estate system, have checked out the real estate situation in Vancouver? Personally, I'd love to in Vancouver, no way I'm going to get a job that pays enough for to buy a house that costs several million dollars given even crack there cost $1M.
 produce anything that anyone'S ever heard Of You KnoW I
> cOuLd maKe thE same argument tHAt I dOn't spent any money on thesE "worlD
> lEAdinG TeCh comPanies" tHEiR VAluE tO mE is EfFEcTivelY zeRo.

Is zerO value someHow SuPposed to imprESs Me?

~~~
GrishnakH
ThIs is rather stUpiD. How exAcTly DId you WriTe thiS post wIThout uSing an
IntEl OR AMD CPu? (both AmeRICaN comPanies) Do you never uSE aNY search
engines? (google AnD biNG(mS) aRe AMerican, as iS DdG, whiCH just reUSeS
RESulTS from one of thoSe two.) You don'T HavE an iPhOnE (thIS is quiTe
posSiBLe, aS Samsung/LG/HtC/etC. are not AmErican)? aNd how arE You gettIng by
wIthOut UsinG amErIcaN-mADe sOFtWarE FroM MicrosoFt Or Some vAriaNT OF linuX
(whIch iS largEly contributeD to By boTH ReD Hat, aN AmerIcan CoMpany) And
varIous oThEr American contrIbutOrs on the DEbiAn SidE? EVen if YOu don't
SpeNd aNy actuaL money dIRecTlY ON SoMe of these things, you'Re CERtAinly
derIving vALuE fROm them.

~~~
esCaPe_pLan
IT'S RatheR unfORtUnate thaT the saME cOmPanies yOu Talk abOuT arE keEping
THeir Money iN tax haveNs, theY Hire foreign borN Workers and mosT Of THE
mANufaCtuRing they do hAppeNS in CHina OR ASia. iN the eNd a noN cOLlEGe
educated American lOsEs to thIs higH skilled labor And cannot aFFORd to live
In SiLIcON Valley which haS a broKen real estATe system, PeoplE commute From
far diSTAnces and bARt is In eNd-oF-LIfE stage.

~~~
GrishnaKH
you'rE aBsoluteLy rIght aboUt aLl tHat. i neVeR said it waS perfect HeRe, AnD
iN faCt thiNGs are defInIteLy GetTing wORse in mAny waYs.

HoWeVeR, We'rE comparINg PREsenT-dAy uS to PreSeNt-day canaDA, anD I'm not
sEeing any aDvaNTageS tO lIving in canada, except fOr Living arouNd FriEndlieR
PEople. EcoNomically, there don't appeaR To be any AdvAntagEs at All to
profEssIonal tEch WOrkers, Only biG disaDvAntAGEs.

If yOU ThInk siLicon ValleY HAs a BrokeN rEal eState syStem, have you checked
OUt tHe real estate sItuAtioN IN VAncOUvER? PeRsONalLY, i'd love to live in
VAncouver, buT tHErE's no way I'm gOIng To Get a job There thAt payS Enough
fOr me to buy A house thaT cOsts SEVerAl million dOllars (CAd), given thaT
Even cRAcK housEs tHere coSt $1m.


 produce anything that any one's ever  hear d o f Y ou  kno w I> could make t h e sa me argument that I don 't sp en t  any mo ney o n these "w o r ld>le adi ng te ch co mpa nies" t heir value  to  m e is effecti v el y zero.

I s z ero value so meh ow sup po sed to im pre ss me ?

~~~ Grishn akh
Thisis rather stupid. H ow  exa ctly did you writ e  t h is post withou t usin ga nI n tel  or  AMD CPU?(B oth A m ericanc om p a n ies )  Do you never  use any se a rch 
engin es ? ( G oogleand B in g (MS ) are Ameri can,  as is DD G, whi c h justr euses
r esults  fr omoneo fth ose  t w o.) Yo u d o n't  have an  i Ph one ( this i s quit e
p ossi ble,as Samsung/LG /HT C/et c . a re no t Ame rica n) ? And  how a re yo ugetting by
with outusing Ame ric an -ma de  soft w are fr omMic rosoftor some var ia n t of  Linux
(which is l ar g e ly  contrib uted t o  b yb oth RedHa t,an A m e rican  com p an y) and
v arious ot he r Ameri ca n cont ri but ors  on t h e De bian s ide? Eve n ify ou don't
spend any actual mo n ey d ir e ctly  on  some of th eset hing s, y o u' rec ertai nly
d er i vi n g value from them.
~ ~~
esc ape_p lan
It's rath er unfortu n a t e that t he s a me companies youtalkabout arek eeping
t heirmoney in  tax have n s , they h ire  fo rei gnb o rn  workers andm o st o fthe
man ufa cturing  th eydohap pe ns in Chi na or As ia .In  t heend a non coll eg e
e du cat ed Am e ricanloses  toth is hig h skill e dl a boran dcann otaf fordto l i vein Sili con Valle y w h ichha sa broke n real estate  s ystem, peo pl e c ommute f rom
fardistances and BART is i n  end-of -li fe st age. 

~~~
Gri shn akh
Yo u'r e  absol utelyright  a bou t all t h a t.  Ine ver said i t was  perf ec t he re, and 
in fact things ar e  de finitely gett ing  wor s e  i n m a ny way s. 
Ho w e ver, we're comp aring pres en t -d ay US to p r ese nt -day Ca nada, a nd I' m  not
se eing anyadvantage sto l i v ing  in Canada , except  for livi n g aro u nd  frie ndl ier
pe op le.  Econ omical l y,there  don't  a ppearto be  a ny advan tages at all to
profess ionaltechwor kers, onl y b i g d isadvanta ges. 

If you t hin k S ilico n V a lleyhasa  b rok e n rea l es t ate syste m ,hav e yo u checked
o u t the  real  es t ate si tuat ion in Vancouver? Personally, I' d lo v e  to  li v e in 
V ancouver, butthe re ' s  no wayI' m going toget a jo bt herethat p ays en ough
fo r me to buy  a h ous e that co sts  s e veral m il li o n doll ars(C AD), g iven t h at
e v e n crack houses t herec o st $1 M .

 produce_anything that_anyone's ever heard of_You know_I
>_could make_the_same argument that_I don't spent_any money on these_"world
> leading tech_companies"_their value to me is effectively zero.

Is zero value somehow supposed to impress me?

~~~
Grishnakh
This_is_rather stupid._How_exactly_did you write this post_without using an
Intel or AMD_CPU? (Both_American companies) Do you never use any search
engines?_(Google_and Bing(MS) are_American, as is DDG, which just reuses
results from one_of those two.) You don't have_an iPhone (this_is_quite
possible,_as Samsung/LG/HTC/etc. are not_American)? And how are you getting_by
without using American-made software from Microsoft_or some variant of Linux
(which is largely_contributed to by both Red Hat,_an American company) and
various other_American contributors_on the Debian side? Even_if you don't
spend_any actual_money directly on_some of these things, you're certainly
deriving_value from them.

~~~
escape_plan
It's_rather unfortunate that the same companies_you_talk about are_keeping
their_money_in tax_havens, they hire_foreign_born workers_and_most of the
manufacturing they do happens_in_China or Asia. In the end a_non college
educated American loses_to_this high skilled labor_and cannot afford to live
in_Silicon Valley which has a broken_real estate_system, people_commute from
far distances and BART is in end-of-life stage.

~~~
Grishnakh
You're absolutely right_about all that. I never said_it was perfect here,_and
in fact_things_are definitely getting_worse_in many_ways.

However, we're comparing present-day US to present-day_Canada, and_I'm not
seeing any advantages to living_in Canada, except for_living_around friendlier
people. Economically, there don't appear_to be any advantages at all_to
professional tech workers, only big_disadvantages.

If_you_think Silicon Valley has a_broken real estate system, have you_checked
out the real_estate situation in Vancouver? Personally, I'd love_to_live in
Vancouver, but there's no way_I'm_going to get a job there_that_pays_enough
for me to buy a_house that costs several million dollars_(CAD), given that
even crack houses there cost $1M.

