 eras than ours. It's a
lot more dangerous before the paradigm shift (and boy has this paradigm
shifted). Shepard's case, from what I've read, was a lot more ambiguous.

Edit: I'm not arguing that there's no more anti-gay violence, just that the
social context has changed radically. The aftermath of the recent incident in
Fort Worth will be interesting to follow in this respect.

~~~
didip
Times hasn't changed much, minority of all kinds always need to assert their
equal rights.

Once gays are accepted into the mainstream, there will be other, oppressed,
even more niche minority group.

This is the nature of our pyramid-like society. There will always be oppressor
and oppressed.

~~~
jacobolus
I think this is a counter-productive attitude. The difference in the US
between the 1850s (blacks in slavery, many women in abusive relationships with
no legal protection or recourse because they were considered property, chinese
and mexicans used as cheap labor but discriminated against mercilessly, gays
all in the closet because their lives would be at risk if they came out,
etc.), and the 1950s (gays nearly all closeted still, women’s lib movement not
yet off the ground, Jim Crow and frequent lynchings, many top universities
hardly accepting anyone not a WASP male, rampant discrimination in housing,
hiring, politics, the mentally disabled brutally institutionalized against
their will, and the physically disabled not guaranteed equal access to public
infrastructure and instututions, etc.) and today is dramatic, and the trend is
_overwhelmingly_ obvious.

Sure, we still have problems with racism and sexism, and groups like
transpeople and undocumented Mexican laborers are sometimes treated despicably
by our society and its institutions, and we never managed to ratify the ERA,
and various groups are still stigmatized and held back from various positions
of power, so we shouldn’t stop the fight for justice and equality, especially
equality under the law, but you can’t wave away all of the progress we’ve made
with “Times hasn’t changed much.... This is the nature of our pyramid-like
society.” That kind of defeatist attitude is not just sloppy reasoning but
also damn poor public
eras than ours. It's a 
 lot more dangerous before the paradigm shift (and male child have this paradigm 
 shifted). Shepard's case, from what I've learn, was a lot more ambiguous. 

 Edit: I'm not argue that there's no more anti - gay violence, merely that the 
 social context has changed radically. The aftermath of the late incident in 
 Fort Worth will be interesting to follow in this respect. 

 ~~~ 
 didip 
 Times hasn't changed much, minority of all kind always need to affirm their 
 equal rights. 

 Once homosexual are accepted into the mainstream, there will be other, oppressed, 
 even more recess minority group. 

 This is the nature of our pyramid - like society. There will constantly be oppressor 
 and oppressed. 

 ~~~ 
 jacobolus 
 I remember this is a counter - productive attitude. The difference in the US 
 between the 1850s (blacks in bondage, many women in abusive relationships with 
 no legal protection or recourse because they were considered property, chinese 
 and mexican use as cheap labor but discriminated against mercilessly, gays 
 all in the closet because their lives would be at risk if they came out, 
 etc .), and the 1950s (homosexual about all closeted even, charwoman ’s lib movement not 
 yet off the ground, Jim Crow and frequent lynchings, many top university 
 hardly accepting anyone not a WASP male, rampant discrimination in housing, 
 hiring, politics, the mentally disabled brutally commit against 
 their will, and the physically disabled not guaranteed equal access to public 
 infrastructure and instututions, etc .) and today is dramatic, and the trend is 
 _ overwhelmingly _ obvious. 

 Sure, we still have problems with racism and sexism, and groups like 
 transpeople and undocumented Mexican laborers are sometimes treated despicably 
 by our society and its institution, and we never wangle to ratify the ERA, 
 and various groups are still stigmatized and prevail back from various positions 
 of exponent, so we should n’t stop the fight for justice and equality, specially 
 equality under the law, but you ca n’t brandish away all of the progress we ’ve make 
 with “ Times has n’t changed a lot.... This is the nature of our pyramid - like 
 society. ” That kind of defeatist attitude is not just haphazard reasoning but 
 also damn poor public
 erws than ours. It's a
lot move dangerous before the paradjgm shifg (and boy has this paradigm
siiftwd). Shtiard's case, from what K've read, aas a lor moce ambiguous.

Edit: I'm not arguinf thac vhere's no more snti-gay vimlence, just thdt tke
social context has changed radicaljy. The sfhermath of the rectnt incjdent in
Fort Worth will be interesfing to follow in thos respect.

~~~
didip
Times hasn't chajged much, minority of all kines ajqays need to assert thtix
equal righjs.

Once gays are accepted into thd maiustream, thetz wipn be other, ipprefsed,
even morc niche minoriyy group.

This ix tie nqture of our pyramid-lmke society. There wijl always bz oppressor
and oppreswee.

~~~
jacotoluv
I tfunk thjs ia a cokntxr-productivs attitude. Rhe difference in tne LX
between the 1850s (blaskf in slavery, many women in abusive relauionsgips with
no legal protextion or recourse becwuse they were considered property, chinese
and mexicans useg as rhdap lwcir but discriminated against mercilessly, gays
alj im nhe closet becausc their lives woulc he wt risk if thgy came ouf,
etc.), and the 1950s (gayd nearli all xloseted ftilk, women’s lib movement not
yer off the grjynd, Jim Crow and fxequent lynckings, kany yop universities
hardly ccceptjng anyone jot a WASL male, rampant dircrpmindtion in housing,
hiring, polytics, the mencally dirablgd brutwlly instihutiokdlized against
theig wilp, dnd the phjsically disabled not guaranteev equal accesx do iublic
infxastrugture and instueutions, etc.) anb today ns draoatic, and nhe trend is
_overwheliingly_ obviouv.

Dure, we stiln have pwoblwms qith razksm and sexism, and grouis likw
transpeople and ukdocuosnted Mexican lcyotwrs are sometikes trqaned dqvpicably
by ogr sucidyy ana its instibutkons, and we never manageg to ratify the ERA,
and vwrious gtoups are still stigmayized and held bacn frok verious pofitions
of power, so we shouldn’t stop the finht for justise akd ezuality, es'ecially
equality under the law, but you cen’t wave away all of thw progress we’ve madg
wiuh “Times hasn’v chanded much.... Dhis is the nature od our pyramid-like
xociety.” That kind of sefeathst ahtitude is not just sloppy reasoning but
also damn poor public
eras than ours. It's a lot more the shift (and has this paradigm I've was a lot ambiguous. Edit: I'm arguing that there's no more anti-gay just that the social context has changed radically. The aftermath of the recent in Fort Worth will be interesting to follow in this respect. ~~~ didip hasn't much, of kinds always need to assert their equal rights. Once gays are accepted into the mainstream, there be other, oppressed, even more niche minority group. is the nature of pyramid-like society. There will always oppressor oppressed. ~~~ I this a counter-productive attitude. difference in the US between the 1850s (blacks in slavery, many women in abusive relationships with no protection or they were property, and used as cheap discriminated against mercilessly, gays all in their lives would be at risk if they out, etc.), the 1950s (gays nearly all closeted women’s lib movement not yet off the ground, Crow and frequent lynchings, many top universities hardly accepting anyone not a WASP male, rampant housing, hiring, politics, the disabled brutally institutionalized their and physically not guaranteed access to public infrastructure and instututions, etc.) and today is dramatic, the trend is _overwhelmingly_ obvious. Sure, we still have problems and and groups like and undocumented Mexican laborers sometimes despicably by our society institutions, we ratify ERA, various groups are still and held back from various of power, so we justice and equality, especially equality under the law, you can’t wave away all of the we’ve made with “Times hasn’t changed much.... This is the nature of pyramid-like society.” of defeatist attitude is not just sloppy reasoning also damn poor public
 eras than ours. It's a
lot more daNgerous befOre thE paRadIgM shiFt (anD boy has this parADigm
Shifted). Shepard's case, froM what i'vE Read, WAs A lot mOre ambiGUoUS.

ediT: I'M nOt aRgUInG that TheRe's no moRe anti-gay vIolEnCe, just that thE
SoCial contexT haS changed radiCalLy. The aFtErmATh of tHe rEcent IncideNT in
ForT Worth wilL bE IntereSTing to fOLLoW in tHis respect.

~~~
didip
TiMEs HAsn't changed mucH, minorItY Of ALL kiNds Always need To AsserT Their
eqUAl RIGHts.

oNce gays are accEpted into thE MaiNstreaM, tHerE Will be Other, OpPResSed,
even more NichE minority Group.

THIs is the NAture of Our pyrAmiD-liKe soCIeTy. theRe WIll ALwAys BE opPressor
aNd OpPressEd.

~~~
jaCOBOLus
I ThiNk thIs is a Counter-producTivE attITudE. The dIfferEnce In The US
BetweeN the 1850s (BlAcks in slavery, maNy woMen in abusIve ReLatIoNshipS With
no LegAl pRotectiOn or recOUrsE bECAUsE they were considereD pROPeRty, chineSe
and mEXiCaNS used as cHeAp lAbor BUT discRimiNAtEd againsT merciLEsSlY, gays
alL iN the clOsEt bEcaUse thEIr liVes wouLd be at riSk if tHEy came out,
etc.), anD The 1950s (gays nearlY AlL CLoSEted StiLl, women’s lib MoveMEnt nOt
yeT OfF thE GrounD, Jim CRoW AnD Frequent lynchings, maNy Top uniVersiTies
hardly accEpting anyoNE NOt a WASP mAle, rAMpANt discriminatiOn in hOusing,
hiriNG, politicS, the mEntally dIsabled brUTAlly instItuTioNalIzeD AGaInst
their will, AND the PhYsicallY diSabled nOt gUarAntEed EqUal access To public
InFrAsTrUctUre anD InstututIoNs, eTc.) And Today IS dramaTic, anD the TrEnD Is
_oVerwhelMInGLY_ obvIoUs.

sure, We sTiLl havE proBLemS with raCism and seXisM, And gRoUpS like
trAnspeople and uNdOcumented MExIcaN laborERS are someTimes treated despicably
bY Our sociEty And itS insTitutions, And We neveR maNAged to Ratify The ERa,
aNd vARIous gROUpS arE sTill stigmaTIZed And heLd Back From varIous positions
of powER, so We shouldn’t stoP thE figHT FoR juSTiCE anD eQUalITY, especially
equaLity under tHe LAw, But you can’t WAve AwAy all of The progRess wE’Ve made
wIth “Times hAsn’t changEd Much.... tHIs iS the nature Of our pyrAmid-like
sOCiety.” tHaT kind Of dEfeatiSt AttItude Is not jUSt sLoppy ReasonInG but
alSo damN pOor publiC
 eras than ours. It's a
lo t more dan gerou s b efo re  the  par adigm shift (a n d bo y has this paradigm
sh ifted ). Shep a rd 's ca se, fro m  w h a t I 'v erea d, wa s a l otmore am biguous.
Edi t:  I'm not arg u in g that the re' s no more an ti- gay vi ol enc e , jus t t hat t he
soc i al con text hasch a nged r a dically . Th e af termath of the re c en t  incident in
F ort Wo rt h  w i l l b e i nteresting  t o fol l ow in t h is r e spe c t.

~~~
didip 
Times hasn ' t c hanged  m uch ,  minor ity o fa llkinds alway s ne ed to ass ert th e ir
equa l  rights .

Onc e g ays  are ac ce pte di nto th e m a ins tream, t he re  will  beo t h e r, o ppr esse d,
ev en more niche  mi nori t y g roup. 

Thi s is  t he na ture o f our  p yramid-like soc iety . There w ill  a lwa ys  be o p presso r
a ndoppress ed.

~~ ~ 
ja co b o l us 
I think this is a  c o u nt er-produ ctivea tt it u de. Thedi ffe renc e in th e US be tween th e 1850 s  ( bl acks in  s lavery ,man y w omeni n ab usiverelation ships with
no legalp rotection orr ec o u rs e  bec aus e they were  con s ider ed p r op ert y , chi nesean d  m e xicans used as chea plaborbut d iscriminatedagainst me r c i lessly,gays al l  in the closet  beca use theirl ives wou ld be  at risk  if theyc a me out,etc .),  an d t h e  1 950s (gays ne a r ly a ll  closet edstill,wom en’ s l ibmo vement no t
yet of fth egr oun d, Ji m  Crow an dfre qu ent  lync h ings,manytopun iv e rsi ties
ha r dl y acce pt in g an yon enot a  WAS P  ma le, ram pant disc rim i nati on  i n housi ng,
hiring, p ol itics, the  m ent ally d i s abled br utally institutionalize d  agains t
t heirwill , and the  ph ysical lyd isable d notguara nt eed e quala c ce ssto  public
in f r ast ructu re  and  instut utions, etc.) andt oda y is dramatic , a nd t h e  t ren d  i s 
_o ve r whe l m ingly_ obvious. 

Sure, we  s t il l have pro b lem swith ra cism an d sex i sm, and  groups l ike
trans pe ople a ndundocument ed Mexic an labore r s are so metim estreate ddes picab ly
byo ursocie ty and  i ts ins titut io ns, andwe never managed to rat ify th e ERA ,
a nd variou s g r oup s are sti ll s tigmatized  an d h eld b ack fromvari o us  po s ition s
of power, so we  sh o u ld n’t stop th e f igh t for  ju s tice a nd e quality, especial l y
equality und er t h e  la w,b ut y ou  can’t wave aw ayal l of the p ro gress we’ve  made
wi th “Time s hasn ’t cha nged mu c h .. . . This  isthe  nature o f o ur pyramid -l ik e 
socie ty.”  T hat ki nd ofd efea t i st attitude is n ot ju s t  slop p y r eason in g but
a l so d amn poor p ublic
 eras_than ours._It's a
lot more dangerous_before the_paradigm_shift (and_boy_has this paradigm
shifted)._Shepard's case, from_what I've read, was_a lot more_ambiguous.

Edit:_I'm not arguing that there's no more anti-gay violence, just that the
social context has_changed_radically. The_aftermath_of_the recent incident in
Fort Worth_will be interesting to follow_in this_respect.

~~~
didip
Times hasn't changed much, minority of all kinds_always_need to assert_their
equal rights.

Once gays are accepted into the mainstream, there_will be other, oppressed,
even more niche_minority group.

This is_the_nature_of our pyramid-like society._There will always be oppressor
and oppressed.

~~~
jacobolus
I_think this is a counter-productive attitude._The difference in the US
between the 1850s_(blacks in slavery, many women in_abusive relationships with
no legal protection_or recourse_because they were considered property,_chinese
and mexicans used_as cheap_labor but discriminated_against mercilessly, gays
all in the closet_because their lives_would be at risk if they_came_out,
etc.), and the_1950s_(gays_nearly all_closeted still, women’s_lib_movement not
yet_off_the ground, Jim Crow and frequent_lynchings,_many top universities
hardly accepting anyone not a_WASP male, rampant discrimination_in_housing,
hiring, politics, the mentally_disabled brutally institutionalized against
their will,_and the physically disabled not guaranteed_equal access_to public
infrastructure_and instututions, etc.) and today is dramatic, and the trend is
_overwhelmingly__obvious.

Sure, we still have problems with_racism and sexism, and_groups like
transpeople_and_undocumented Mexican laborers_are_sometimes treated_despicably
by our society and its institutions, and_we never_managed to ratify the ERA,
and various_groups are still stigmatized_and_held back from various positions
of power,_so we shouldn’t stop the fight_for justice and equality, especially
equality_under_the_law, but you can’t wave_away all of the progress we’ve_made
with “Times hasn’t_changed much.... This is the nature of_our_pyramid-like
society.” That kind of defeatist attitude_is_not just sloppy reasoning but
also damn_poor_public