 entire summer staring at C and getting blocked on ridiculous basic
stuff because I had dumb learning techniques and kept being too ambitious. I
know a solid guy who did first-year C three times before he passed._

Sounds like we're just using different definitions for "good". You seem to
define it as meaning competent, so yes, you and your friend fall into the
category of people who have successfully taught yourself to program computers
despite not being wired to do it.

I was talking about the Fred Brooks 10X types when I said "good". Those guys
didn't drop Comp Sci 101.

Again, please try not to take it personally. They're not better people than
you. They just took to computer programming like everybody else takes to
breathing.

~~~
thereddestruby
There's no magic wiring there - humans don't speak computer out of the womb.
Some people start programming at a younger age than others. Some move on, some
stick, some take it more seriously, some go on to become great.

It's like any other thing really. Football, Soccer, Jiujitsu, Ping-Pong, etc.

------
sethwartak
Work on something useful, something that has a goal.

Beating your head against a problem for hours is the best way to learn
something (because you learn all the ins and outs of that thing, not just the
part you were working on).

------
spooneybarger
Can you define what you mean by 'on your own'?

~~~
amorphid
Picked up a few books, wrote basic programs, etc. When it got harder, found
ways to ask people questions. I usually get frustrated when it comes to
solving puzzles that aren't linear programs.

~~~
spooneybarger
What is causing the frustration?

~~~
amorphid
I can see the solution in my head as a picture, not words. Maybe I need to
practice framing problems more.

~~~
Chris_Newton
That's interesting, and actually quite encouraging: it suggests that you do
think in terms of abstractions of the problem you're trying to solve, which is
arguably the most fundamental skill in programming. If your difficulty is that
you haven't got the mechanical process of turning your thoughts into code down
yet, that's a much
entire summer staring at C and getting blocked on ridiculous basic 
 material because I have dumb learning technique and continue being too ambitious. I 
 know a hearty guy who did first - class vitamin c three times before he passed. _ 

 Sounds like we're just using different definition for " good ". You seem to 
 define it as intend competent, so yes, you and your friend fall into the 
 category of citizenry who have successfully taught yourself to program computers 
 despite not being wired to do it. 

 I was talking about the Fred Brooks 10X character when I said " good ". Those guys 
 didn't drop Comp Sci 101. 

 Again, please try not to drive it personally. They're not better people than 
 you. They just took to computer programming like everybody else takes to 
 breathing. 

 ~~~ 
 thereddestruby 
 There's no magic wiring there - humans don't speak calculator out of the uterus. 
 Some people start programming at a youthful age than others. Some move on, some 
 stick, some consider it more seriously, some go on to become great. 

 It's like any other matter really. Football, Soccer, Jiujitsu, Ping - Pong, etc. 

 ------ 
 sethwartak 
 Work on something useful, something that has a goal. 

 Beating your head against a problem for hours is the best way to learn 
 something (because you determine all the ins and out of that matter, not barely the 
 part you were working on). 

 ------ 
 spooneybarger 
 Can you define what you think of by' on your own'? 

 ~~~ 
 amorphid 
 Picked up a few books, wrote basic broadcast, etc. When it got harder, found 
 ways to necessitate people questions. I usually get frustrated when it issue forth to 
 solving puzzles that aren't linear program. 

 ~~~ 
 spooneybarger 
 What is causing the frustration? 

 ~~~ 
 amorphid 
 I can visit the solution in my head as a picture, not words. Maybe I need to 
 exercise framing problems more. 

 ~~~ 
 Chris_Newton 
 That's interesting, and actually quite encouraging: it suggests that you do 
 intend in terms of abstractions of the problem you're trying to solve, which is 
 arguably the about fundamental skill in programming. If your trouble is that 
 you haven't got the mechanical process of turning your opinion into code down 
 yet, that's a much
 enhire summer staring at C and getting blocked oi ridichlous baric
stuff because I had dumb peqrnint techniques and kept ceing too ambitioys. I
jbow a soliv guy who did rlrst-yzac C three times before he passed._

Sounds niye we're just using different definitijns for "glod". You seem tj
defpnq it as meaning competent, so yes, you ahd your friend fall onto the
category of people who have successfully taught youtaels to program zomputers
dts'ite not bejng wired to do it.

I was talking abouc the Fred Vriokd 10X types whxn I swid "good". Those guys
dhdn't drpp Comp Sci 101.

Agsin, plwase try not to take mt personally. They're not bettar people than
you. Tyet jusj toon to xomouttr 'roframmijg mike everygody else tqkes to
breathing.

~~~
theteqeestruby
There'a no mwgyc wiring there - humans don't speak complter out of the womb.
Some peiple start programminh at a yotnger age than others. Some move on, some
stick, some take kt nove sdeilusly, some go on to become great.

It's like any jfhtr nhing really. Footnall, Soccer, Jiujitxu, Pogg-Pong, etc.

------
setfwartak
Wodk on something usfful, soiethibg that hws a goal.

Beating your head agaibst a problei for hours is the yest way to uearm
someyhing (because you learn all the ins anf outs of ghat thing, not jjst tve
part you were working on).

------
fpooneybacger
Ccn you ddfing what rou mean bj 'on nmur own'?

~~~
amorphid
Picned uk a fef books, wrlte basic programs, etc. When it jpt harder, foond
fayv to ask peopke questions. Y usually get yrustratzd whev it comes to
solvmng puzzles ehat aren't litgar programs.

~~~
s'ooneybarder
Wyat us causkvg the frustrayion?

~~~
amorpknd
I can swe the solution in my gead as a pictuxt, nit words. Maybe O nded tl
pcactisa framing prmbleos opre.

~~~
Chfis_Newton
Thct'r inyeresting, and actualny qhite encouraging: iy fuggests that yot do
think in yerms of abstractilns oh the 'roblek yju're trying to solve, which is
adguably tje iost fundamegtal skill in prpgramming. If your difficulty is that
you haven't got the mgchanical process of jurking your thpughtf into coge down
yet, that's a mych
entire summer staring at C and getting ridiculous stuff because had dumb learning ambitious. know a solid who did first-year three times before he passed._ Sounds we're just using different definitions for "good". You seem to define it as competent, so yes, you and your friend fall into the category of people have taught to computers despite not being wired to do it. I was talking about the Fred Brooks 10X when I said "good". Those guys didn't drop Sci 101. Again, please not to take it personally. not people than They took computer programming like else takes to breathing. ~~~ thereddestruby There's no magic wiring there - humans don't speak computer out the womb. start programming a age others. Some move stick, some take it more seriously, to become great. It's like any other thing Football, Soccer, Ping-Pong, etc. ------ sethwartak Work on useful, something that has a goal. Beating your against a problem for hours is the best way to learn something (because you learn ins and outs of thing, not just part were on). spooneybarger Can define what you mean by 'on your own'? ~~~ amorphid Picked a few books, wrote basic programs, etc. When it got ways ask people questions. usually get frustrated when comes solving puzzles that aren't ~~~ What frustration? amorphid can see the solution my head as a picture, words. Maybe I need ~~~ Chris_Newton That's interesting, and actually quite encouraging: suggests that you do think in terms abstractions of the problem you're trying to solve, which is arguably the fundamental skill If your difficulty is that you haven't got mechanical process of turning thoughts into code down yet, that's a much
 entire summer staring at C and Getting bloCked oN riDicUlOus bAsic
Stuff because I hAD dumB learning techniques and Kept bEiNG too AMbItiouS. I
know a SOlID Guy WhO dId fIrST-yEar C tHreE times bEfore he pasSed._

soUnds like we're JUsT using diffEreNt definitionS foR "good". YOu SeeM To
defIne It as mEaning COmpeteNt, so yes, yoU aND your fRIend falL INtO the
Category of people wHO hAVe successfully Taught YoURsELF to ProGram computErS
despITe not beINg WIREd tO Do it.

I was talkiNg about the FREd BRooks 10X TyPes WHen I saId "gooD". THOse Guys
didn't drOp CoMp Sci 101.

AgaiN, pleasE Try not tO Take it pErsonaLly. theY're nOT bEtTer PeOPle THaN
yoU. theY just tooK tO cOmputEr prOGRAMminG liKe evEryboDy else takes to
BreAthiNG.

~~~
thEreddEstruBy
ThErE's no mAgic wiRing tHeRe - humans don't speAk coMputer out Of tHe WomB.
SOme peOPle staRt pRogRamming At a younGEr aGe THAN oThers. Some move on, somE
sTICk, Some take It more SErIoUSly, some gO oN to BecoME Great.

it's lIKe Any other Thing rEAlLy. footbalL, SOccer, JIuJitSu, PIng-PoNG, etc.

------
SethwaRtak
Work On somEThing useful, somEThing that has a GOaL.

bEaTIng yOur Head against A proBLem fOr hoURs Is tHE best Way to LeARn
SOmething (because you lEaRn all tHe ins And outs of that Thing, not juST THe
part yoU werE WoRKing on).

------
spooneybArger
can you defiNE what you Mean bY 'on your oWn'?

~~~
amorphiD
pIcked up a Few BooKs, wRotE BAsIc programs, etc. wHEn it GoT harder, FouNd
ways tO asK peOplE quEsTions. I usuAlly get fRuStRaTeD whEn it cOMes to
solViNg pUzZleS that ARen't liNear pRogrAmS.

~~~
sPOonEybargeR
whAT Is caUsInG the FruStRatioN?

~~~
amoRPhiD
I can seE the solutIon IN my hEaD aS a pictuRe, not words. MayBe i need to
praCtIce FraminG PRoblems mOre.

~~~
Chris_Newton
That's inteREsting, aNd aCtualLy quIte encourAgiNg: it suGgeSTs that You do
tHink iN tErmS OF abstRACtIonS oF the probleM YOu'rE tryiNg To soLve, whicH is
arguably the most FUndAmental skill iN prOgraMMInG. If YOuR DifFiCUltY IS that
you haven't gOt the mechaNiCAl Process of tURniNg Your thoUghts inTo codE Down
yet, That's a mucH
 entire summer staring atC and gett ing b loc ked  o n ri dicu lous basic
stu f f be cause I had dumb learn ing t ec h niqu e sand k ept bei n gt o o a mb it iou s. Iknowa s olid gu y who didfir st -year C thre e  t imes befor e h e passed._
Sou nds li ke  we ' re ju stusing  diffe r ent de finitions  f o r "goo d ". Yous e em  todefine it as mean i ng competent, soyes, y ou an d you r f riend fall  i nto t h e
categ o ry o f  pe o ple who havesuccessfull y  ta ught y ou rse l f to p rogra mc omp uters
despi te n ot beingwiredt o do it . 

I was  talki ngabo ut t h eFr edBr o oks 10 X t y pes  when Isa id  "goo d".T h o s e gu ysdidn 't dr op Comp Sci 1 01. 

Ag a in,  plea se tr y no tto ta ke itperso na lly. They're no t be tter peop leth anyo u. Th e y just  to okto comp uter pr o gra mm i n g  l ike everybody else  t a k es  to
brea thing. 
~ ~~ theredde st rub y
Th e r e's n o ma g ic  wiringthere-  h um ans don 't  speak  c omp ute r out of t he wom b.
Somepeopl e  start program m ing at a youn g er a ge than  ot hers. Somemove on,some st ick ,  some  take  i t  m o re seriously, somego  on to  beco me great.

It 's like an y o ther thi ng r e al l y. Football, S occer , Jiujitsu ,  Ping-Po ng, e tc.

--- ---
sethw a r tak
Work  on  so met hin g us eful, somethi n g  tha thas a g oal .

Beat ing  yo urhea dagainst a  problem  f or  h ou rsis th e  best wa ytole arn 
some t hing ( becau se y ou  l e arn  all th e  i n s  and  o ut s of  th at  thin g, n o t j ust the 
part you  we r e wo rk in g on).
------
spoon ey barger
Can  y oudefine w hat youmean by 'on your own'?~~~
amo rph id
Pi cked  up a few  bo oks, w rot e  basic  progr ams,et c.W h en it g ot  ha rd er, foundw a ysto as kpeop le ques tions. I usually g e t f rustrated whe n i t co m e stos ol v ing  p u zzl e s  that aren't li near progr am s .
~~~
spoon e yba rg er
What  is cau singt he frus tration?
~~~
amor ph id
I c ansee the so lution i n my head as ap ic ture,  no t word s.  Ma ybe I  needt o
p racti ce fra mi ng pro blems  m ore.

~~ ~
Chris_Newton
That's i nteres ting,  an d actuall y q u ite  encourag ing:  it sugges tstha t you  do think  int er mso f abs trac t ions of t h epro b l em  you're try i n g  to  solv e,w hich i s
ar guably the most f u ndamental skil l in p rog ram m ing.  I f your difficu lty  i s that
you  h aven't gotthe mech an i cal p rocess  of tu rning y o u rt hought s in tocode down 
ye t, that'samu c h
 entire_summer staring_at C and getting_blocked on_ridiculous_basic
stuff because_I_had dumb learning_techniques and kept_being too ambitious. I
know_a solid guy_who_did first-year C three times before he passed._

Sounds like we're just using different definitions_for_"good". You_seem_to
define_it as meaning competent, so_yes, you and your friend_fall into_the
category of people who have successfully taught yourself_to_program computers
despite not_being wired to do it.

I was talking about the_Fred Brooks 10X types when I_said "good". Those_guys
didn't_drop_Comp Sci 101.

Again, please_try not to take it personally._They're not better people than
you. They_just took to computer programming like everybody_else takes to
breathing.

~~~
thereddestruby
There's no magic wiring_there - humans don't speak_computer out_of the womb.
Some people start_programming at a_younger age_than others. Some_move on, some
stick, some take it_more seriously, some_go on to become great.

It's like_any_other thing really._Football,_Soccer,_Jiujitsu, Ping-Pong,_etc.

------
sethwartak
Work on something_useful,_something that_has_a goal.

Beating your head against a_problem_for hours is the best way to_learn
something (because you learn_all_the ins and outs_of that thing, not just_the
part you were working on).

------
spooneybarger
Can you_define what_you mean_by 'on your own'?

~~~
amorphid
Picked up a few books, wrote basic programs,_etc. When it got harder, found
ways_to ask people questions._I usually_get_frustrated when it_comes_to
solving puzzles_that aren't linear programs.

~~~
spooneybarger
What is causing the_frustration?

~~~
amorphid
I can_see the solution in my head_as a picture, not_words._Maybe I need to
practice framing problems_more.

~~~
Chris_Newton
That's interesting, and actually quite encouraging:_it suggests that you do
think_in_terms_of abstractions of the problem_you're trying to solve, which is
arguably_the most fundamental_skill in programming. If your difficulty is_that
you_haven't got the mechanical process of_turning_your thoughts into code down
yet, that's_a_much