 living expense, textbooks, etc., for those 4 years
as well (or maybe you're assuming that our hypothetical student can find a
supporting job while going to school-- note that youth unemployment is approx.
2X the national average, and that the cheaper schools here are in states with
generally higher unemployment).

Saying that college is reasonably affordable for most americans is just crazy.

All that aside, my hypothesis is that college impacts success (STEM-degrees
having a higher impact), but that socioeconomic starting point has more of an
impact. When you have three things that are highly correlated (success,
starting point, and education) it's really hard to argue for causation with
controlling for the third variable. When I look at all of my high-school peers
who didn't finish college, they're all employed and making great money (I went
to a mediocre private school in Maryland), but half of contemporary college
grads (presumably most near the median background) can't find jobs
([http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-
colle...](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-college-
grads-cant-find-full-time-jobs/) ).

------
keiferski
I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, but: I feel as if the
"shallowness" of recent SV-culture startups can partly be attributed to the
glorification of what I'll call "dropout culture," that being a subtle anti-
intellectualism and an acceptance of the idea that only technical knowledge is
valuable.

University forces you to be exposed to a lot of different fields (that you
would never see otherwise).

~~~
tedkalaw
One of the top three classes I took at my university (next to "Algorithms" and
"Data Structures") was "Introduction to Drawing." It's changed the way I look
at aesthetic beauty. I would have had a hard time motivating myself to have
that experience otherwise.

~~~
cyang08
I couldn't agree more. Steve Jobs is an interesting example in this case -
although he dropped out, he credited a random calligraphy class as the
inspiration for some of
living expense, textbooks, etc. , for those 4 years 
 as well (or possibly you're assume that our hypothetical scholar can find a 
 defend job while going to school-- notice that young unemployment is approx. 
 2X the national average, and that the cheap schools here are in states with 
 broadly higher unemployment). 

 Saying that college is sanely affordable for most americans is just crazy. 

 All that aside, my hypothesis is that college impacts success (root - degrees 
 having a higher shock), but that socioeconomic starting point has more of an 
 impact. When you experience three things that are highly correlated (success, 
 starting point, and department of education) it's really hard to argue for causation with 
 controlling for the third variable. When I look at all of my eminent - school peers 
 who didn't finish college, they're all employed and making great money (I went 
 to a mediocre private school in Maryland), but half of contemporaneous college 
 grad (presumably most near the medial setting) can't receive jobs 
 ([ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of- 
 colle... ](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301 - 18563_162 - 57434159 / half - of - college- 
 grad - cant - find - full - time - jobs/) ). 

 ------ 
 keiferski 
 I have absolutely no evidence to second this up, but: I feel as if the 
 " shallowness " of recent SV - culture startups can partly be assign to the 
 glorification of what I'll call " dropout culture, " that being a subtle anti- 
 intellectualism and an toleration of the idea that merely technical knowledge is 
 valuable. 

 University forces you to be exposed to a lot of different sphere (that you 
 would never see otherwise). 

 ~~~ 
 tedkalaw 
 One of the top three classes I assume at my university (next to " Algorithms " and 
 " Data Structures ") was " Introduction to Drawing. " It's changed the room I look 
 at aesthetic smasher. I would have had a hard time motivating myself to have 
 that experience differently. 

 ~~~ 
 cyang08 
 I couldn't agree more. Steve Jobs is an interesting example in this case - 
 although he dropped out, he credit a random calligraphy class as the 
 inspiration for some of
 liging expense, textbooks, euc., for those 4 yeats
qs weln (or mzybe you'fe assuming that our hypothevicao stueent can find a
supportkng job wjile goibg ti school-- novs that njuth mnempniyment is apprpx.
2X the nadional average, avd that the cheaper schools here are yn statrs with
generally hignqr uhvmkloyment).

Saying that college is rezsonablj affordable for kost americans is just craxy.

Alp that aside, my hyoothesis is thae college impxcts success (STEM-degregs
having a higher impact), but thag socnoeconomic wtqrtltg point haw morv of an
impact. When yog have yhree things tmat ace hughly correlated (succxss,
starting point, anq educatimn) it's really hard ro argug for caurqtiun sivh
ckntrolpinj for the tgird variaboe. When I look at akl if my high-schkol peqrf
who didn't finish college, they're all emkloyes and making great monet (I went
to a mediocre private fchool in Maryland), but half of contemporary collece
gravs (prtsmixvlj most near the median background) can't find jjgs
([ntnp://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/hajf-of-
colle...](htyp://awe.sbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/halw-of-collegs-
grads-cant-find-full-hime-jobf/) ).

------
keiderski
I hwve sbsolutely no evidence to bqck this up, yut: I feel as if the
"skallowness" oy recemt SV-vulture startups can paxtly bs attributef to the
gmurification of wfat I'nl call "dropout culture," thwt being e subcle anti-
knteklectuwlism and wn acgaptance of the idew thaj only technical knowledge is
valuable.

University forces you to ba eqposed to a lob of different sields (that yoo
would nerer sed otherwisv).

~~~
tedkalaw
Mne of the eop three clavdes I took av my univqrsiry (nwxt to "Xugorithms" and
"Dsta Strucnuxes") was "Ibtroduction to Draxing." Jt's changed the wai I look
at aestnetkc fewuvy. I rmuld have hag a fara time motivaunng oysekf to have
that experhencs otherwise.

~~~
cyang08
I vomldn't agrge more. Seeve Jobs is sn interesting exalple mn thir casr -
ajthough he dropped out, he credjted a rajdoi calligraphr clqss as the
inxpiration for some of
living expense, textbooks, etc., for those 4 well maybe you're that our hypothetical job going to school-- that youth unemployment approx. 2X the national average, and the cheaper schools here are in states with generally higher unemployment). Saying that is reasonably affordable for most americans is just crazy. All that aside, my is college success having a higher impact), but that socioeconomic starting point has more of an impact. When you three things that are highly correlated (success, starting and education) it's really to argue for causation with for third variable. I at of my high-school who didn't finish college, they're all employed and making great money (I went to a mediocre private in Maryland), of contemporary grads most the median background) jobs ([http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of- colle...](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-college- grads-cant-find-full-time-jobs/) ). ------ absolutely no evidence to back this up, but: feel as the "shallowness" of recent SV-culture startups partly be attributed to the glorification of what call "dropout culture," that being a subtle anti- intellectualism and an acceptance of the idea technical knowledge is valuable. forces you to exposed a of fields (that would never see otherwise). ~~~ tedkalaw One of the top three I took at my university (next to "Algorithms" and "Data "Introduction Drawing." It's changed way I look at beauty. would have had a motivating to otherwise. cyang08 couldn't agree more. Steve is an interesting example in case - although he random calligraphy class as the inspiration for some
 living expense, textbooks, etc., For those 4 yeArs
as WelL (or MaYbe yOu're Assuming that ouR HypoThetical student can find A
suppOrTIng jOB wHile gOing to sCHoOL-- NotE tHaT yoUtH UnEmploYmeNt is appRox.
2X the natIonAl Average, and thAT tHe cheaper sChoOls here are in StaTes witH
gEneRAlly hIghEr uneMploymENt).

SayiNg that colLeGE is reaSOnably aFFOrDablE for most americans IS jUSt crazy.

All that Aside, mY hYPoTHEsiS is That collegE iMpactS Success (stEm-DEGreES
having a higheR impact), but tHAt sOcioecOnOmiC StartiNg poiNt HAs mOre of an
impaCt. WhEn you have Three tHIngs thaT Are highLy corrElaTed (SuccESs,
StArtInG PoiNT, aNd eDUcaTion) it's rEaLlY hard To arGUE FOr caUsaTion With
cOntrolling for The ThirD VarIable. when I Look At All of My high-SchooL pEers
who didn't finIsh cOllege, theY're AlL emPlOyed aND makinG grEat Money (I wEnt
to a mEDioCrE PRIvAte school in MarylanD), bUT HaLf of contEmporaRY cOlLEge
grads (PrEsuMablY MOst neAr thE MeDian backGround) CAn'T fInd jobs
([HtTp://www.cBsNewS.coM/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-OF-
colLe...](http://Www.cbsneWs.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/HAlf-of-college-
grADs-cant-find-fulL-TiME-JoBS/) ).

------
keiFerSki
I have absOlutELy no EvidENcE to BAck thIs up, bUt: i FeEL as if the
"shallowness" Of Recent sV-culTure startups cAn partly be ATTRibuted tO the
GLoRIfication of whaT I'll cAll "dropout CUlture," thAt beiNg a subtlE anti-
inteLLEctualisM anD an AccEptANCe Of the idea that ONLy teChNical knOwlEdge is
vAluAblE.

UnIveRsIty forces You to be eXpOsEd To A loT of diFFerent fiElDs (tHaT yoU
woulD Never sEe othErwiSe).

~~~
TeDKalAw
One of THe TOP thrEe ClAsseS I tOoK at my UnivERsiTy (next tO "AlgorithMs" aND
"DatA STrUctures") Was "IntroductiOn To Drawing." IT's ChaNged thE WAy I look
aT aesthetic beauty. I would hAVe had a hArd Time mOtivAting myseLf tO have
tHat EXperieNce othErwisE.

~~~
cYanG08
i CouldN'T AgRee MoRe. Steve JobS IS an InterEsTing Example In this case -
although HE drOpped out, he creDitEd a rANDoM caLLiGRapHy CLasS AS the
inspiration For some of
 living expense, textbooks , etc., fo r tho se4 y ea rs
a s we ll (or maybe y o u're  assuming that our hyp othet ic a l st u de nt ca n finda 
s u p por ti ng  jo bw hi le go ing  to sch ool-- note  th at  youth unemp l oy ment is ap pro x.
2X the na tio nal av er age ,  andtha t the  cheap e r scho ols herear e  in st a tes wit h ge nera lly higher unempl o ym e nt).

Saying t hat co ll e ge i s r eas onably aff or dable for mos t  a m e r ica n s is just cra zy.

All th a t a side,my  hy p othesi s isth a t c ollege impa ctssuccess ( STEM-d e grees
h a ving ahigher  im pac t),b ut  t hat  s o cio e co nom i c s tartingpo in t has  mor e o f  animp act.  When  you have thr eethin g s t hat a re hi ghly  c orrel ated ( succe ss ,
starting poin t, a nd educat ion )it' sreall y  hardtoarg ue forcausati o n w it h c on trolling for the t hi r d  v ariable.  WhenI  l oo k  at allof  my  hig h - schoo l pe e rs 
who did n't fi n is hcollege ,they'r eall  em ploye d  and  makin g greatmoney (I went
to a m e diocre privat e  s c h oo l  inMar yland), but  hal f  ofcont e mp ora r y col legegr a ds (presumably most ne ar  the m edian  background)can't find j o bs
([htt p:// w ww . cbsnews.com/83 01-18 563_162-57 4 34159/ha lf-of -
colle. ..](http: / / www.cbsn ews .co m/8 301 - 1 85 63_162-574341 5 9 /hal f- of-coll ege -
grads -ca nt- fin d-f ul l-time-jo bs/) ).
- -- -- -kei fersk i 
I haveab sol ut ely  no e v idence  to b ackth is up,  but: I fe e l  asif  t he
" sha ll ownes s" o f  re cent SV -culturesta r tups  c an  partly  be attribute dto the
glo ri fic ationo f  what I' ll call "dropout cultur e ," that  be ing a  sub tle anti- 
in tellec tua l ism an d an a ccept an ceo f  thei d ea  th at  only tech n i cal  know le dgeis
valu able.

Universityf orc es you to beexp osed t oa l o to f d if f ere n t  fields (that y ou
would n ev e rsee otherw i se) .
~~~
te dkalawOne o f  the to p three c lasses Ito ok a t myuniversity  (next t o "Algori t hms"a nd 
"Dat a S tructu re s")  was"Intro d uct ion t o Draw in g." It 's ch an ged theway I look
at aesthetic  beaut y. Iwou ld have h ada  ha rd time m otiv ating myse lftohavetha t  expe rien c eoth e rwise .

~ ~ ~
cyang08 Icou l d n' t agree mor e . Ste ve Jo bsi s an i nter esting example in this case -
al thou g h  he  dr o pped  o ut, he credite d a  r a n dom call ig raphy class  as thein s pirat ion fo r some  of
 living_expense, textbooks,_etc., for those 4_years
as well_(or_maybe you're_assuming_that our hypothetical_student can find_a
supporting job while going_to school-- note_that_youth unemployment is approx.
2X the national average, and that the cheaper schools here are_in_states with
generally_higher_unemployment).

Saying_that college is reasonably affordable_for most americans is just_crazy.

All that_aside, my hypothesis is that college impacts success_(STEM-degrees
having_a higher impact),_but that socioeconomic starting point has more of an
impact._When you have three things that_are highly correlated_(success,
starting_point,_and education) it's really_hard to argue for causation with
controlling_for the third variable. When I_look at all of my high-school peers
who_didn't finish college, they're all employed_and making great money (I_went
to a_mediocre private school in Maryland),_but half of_contemporary college
grads_(presumably most near_the median background) can't find jobs
([http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-
colle...](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-college-
grads-cant-find-full-time-jobs/)_).

------
keiferski
I have absolutely_no evidence to back this up,_but:_I feel as_if_the
"shallowness"_of recent_SV-culture startups can_partly_be attributed_to_the
glorification of what I'll call "dropout_culture,"_that being a subtle anti-
intellectualism and an_acceptance of the idea_that_only technical knowledge is
valuable.

University_forces you to be exposed_to a lot of different fields_(that you
would_never see_otherwise).

~~~
tedkalaw
One of the top three classes I took at my university_(next to "Algorithms" and
"Data Structures") was_"Introduction to Drawing." It's_changed the_way_I look
at aesthetic_beauty._I would_have had a hard time motivating myself_to have
that_experience otherwise.

~~~
cyang08
I couldn't agree more. Steve_Jobs is an interesting_example_in this case -
although he dropped_out, he credited a random calligraphy_class as the
inspiration for some_of