 and get over :)

~~~
matthewrudy
Ember now feels like a complete framework, but fundamentally any Ember app
will be tightly coupled to Ember the framework.

In many ways this is the same as Rails Apps have traditionally been very much
tied to Rails.

Having worked on many Rails Apps that have grown beyond the scope of the
framework, the apps I build today are as decoupled as possible from the
framework.

I hope that the Ember community can grow in that direction too, and at a
distant look, it feels like Web Components will be that method of decoupling.

Right now I tell everyone that I'd never render HTML (or JS) on the server,
and I hope that JS frameworks will keep maturing with my clients' needs, so I
don't have to renege on that approach.

------
coldcode
While it's refreshing to see people talk about the things they did wrong and
how they intelligently approached fixing them, building your own javascript
framework from scratch (batman) is something I would have said no to from the
start. Not for the faint of heart or those who have not suffered such an
endeavor before.

~~~
Bahamut
If I had to guess, none of the solutions back then sufficed for them. Batman
has been around for a while.

~~~
funion
You're dead on. We started work on Batman some time ago now - options then
were quite limited.

~~~
tericho
2 years ago I was exploring frameworks for an enterprise project. I tried
Batman along with most others, I can easily see why building your own
framework would have been an option any earlier than that.

Most frameworks weren't even at 1.0 stable yet. I initially wrote a fairly
extensive prototype with Ember, but there were breaking changes so frequently
I couldn't keep up with the learning curve. In the end I chose Angular because
it had the best documentation, Google dogfooding, and testing was an obvious
priority. Worked out so well we're on our 4th major Angular app now.

------
fidz
A little bit OOT, i need to connect to my VPN in US to be able to see the
post. It is always redirect to my country's TLD (www.shop
and get over :) 

 ~~~ 
 matthewrudy 
 Ember now feels like a complete model, but basically any Ember app 
 will be tightly copulate to Ember the framework. 

 In many direction this is the like as Rails Apps have traditionally been very much 
 tied to Rails. 

 Having work on many Rails Apps that have grown beyond the setting of the 
 framework, the apps I build today are equally decoupled as possible from the 
 framework. 

 I hope that the Ember community can originate in that direction too, and at a 
 distant look, it feels like vane Components will be that method of decoupling. 

 Right immediately I tell everyone that I'd never render HTML (or JS) on the server, 
 and I hope that JS frameworks will continue maturing with my clients' needs, so I 
 don't have to renege on that approach. 

 ------ 
 coldcode 
 While it's bracing to see people talk about the things they did wrong and 
 how they intelligently approached fixing them, building your own javascript 
 framework from scratch (batman) is something I would have said no to from the 
 start. Not for the faint of heart or those who have not suffered such an 
 endeavor before. 

 ~~~ 
 Bahamut 
 If I had to guess, none of the solution back then sufficed for them. Batman 
 has been around for a while. 

 ~~~ 
 funion 
 You're all in on. We start oeuvre on Batman some time ago now - choice then 
 were quite limited. 

 ~~~ 
 tericho 
 2 years ago I was exploring frameworks for an enterprise undertaking. I tried 
 Batman along with most others, I can easily see why building your own 
 framework would have been an option any earlier than that. 

 Most frameworks weren't even at 1.0 stable yet. I initially wrote a fairly 
 across-the-board prototype with Ember, but there were violate changes so frequently 
 I couldn't keep up with the learning curve. In the goal I chose Angular because 
 it had the best software documentation, Google dogfooding, and testing was an obvious 
 precedence. Worked out so well we're on our 4th major Angular app now. 

 ------ 
 fidz 
 A little act OOT, i need to connect to my VPN in US to be able to attend the 
 post. It is constantly redirect to my country's TLD (www.shop
 anf get over :)

~~~
matthewrudy
Emner now feels like a cokplete framewofk, but fundamentally any Embxr app
wilo be tightly coupled tu Ember tje frameqork.

Mn many ways this is the same zd Ranlw Apps have trsditionallf been very muwh
gizd to Rails.

Having worked on many Raijs Apps tjat have grown beypgd tgv wcope of the
framework, the appa I buind today are ss decoupled as possible fgom hhe
framework.

I hope that the Enber xommunity cav grow in uhct directioh too, and at a
distant look, it fdels kike Web Cimponftts will be that method of dcbouplinc.

Right mow I tell evevyone thqt I'd never render HTKL (or JS) on the setver,
and I vo'e that JS frameworks wull kgep mdturkbg ditg ky clienhs' ieeds, so I
dkn't have to renege on that apptowbn.

------
coldcode
Whime it's rqfreshing to see people talk about the uhinga they did wrong and
how they intelligently akproached sixing them, building your own javascript
framework from rcrcbgh (bxrmwn) is something I would have said no to from ege
xtsrt. Not for thc faint of heart ot hhpfe who have nut sufysrsd such an
endeavor before.

~~~
Fahamyt
If I haq to guess, none of the solutionw back then fyfficed for them. Bctman
has beeu aroumd fot a while.

~~~
funion
You're decd on. Se started aork on Bzgman some time aeo kow - options then
were quite lymited.

~~~
termcho
2 vears agu I eas ex[loring frwmewovns for an enterpride prljact. I trief
Batman along with most others, M can easily xea wvy buildnng yomr own
framework would have begn an optnon anh earlier nhan that.

Kost framewjrks weren't eegn at 1.0 stable yet. I igitiqlly wrote x fairly
extensife prototjpt with Embwr, but there were nreakkhg changes so fxtqutnrly
I couldn't krep up wpth tra learning cgrve. In yhe evd I chose Cneulat because
it had the test documentation, Gooblc dogfoodung, and eesting was am obvious
priority. Aorkev out ro wekl re're on our 4th major Angular alp now.

------
fidx
A jittle bit OJT, i need to conuect to my VPN in US to be able to see tie
post. It is always redurect to my country'x TLD (www.sho'
and get over :) ~~~ matthewrudy Ember like complete framework, fundamentally any Ember to the framework. In ways this is same as Rails Apps have traditionally very much tied to Rails. Having worked on many Rails Apps that have beyond the scope of the framework, the apps I build today are as as from framework. hope that the Ember community can grow in that direction too, and at a distant look, feels like Web Components will be that method decoupling. Right now I everyone that I'd never render (or on the and hope JS frameworks will maturing with my clients' needs, so I don't have to renege on that approach. ------ coldcode While refreshing to talk about things did and how they fixing them, building your own javascript (batman) is something I would have said no from the Not for the faint of heart those who have not suffered such an endeavor ~~~ Bahamut If I had to guess, none of the solutions back then sufficed for has been around for while. ~~~ funion dead We work Batman some ago now - options then were quite limited. ~~~ tericho 2 ago I was exploring frameworks for an enterprise project. I along most others, I easily see why building own would have been an earlier that. even 1.0 yet. I initially wrote fairly extensive prototype with Ember, there were breaking changes up with the learning curve. In the end chose Angular because it had the best Google dogfooding, and testing was an obvious priority. Worked out so well on our Angular app now. ------ fidz A little bit i need to connect my VPN in US to be able to see post. is always to my country's (www.shop
 and get over :)

~~~
matthewrudy
EmbeR now feels lIke a cOmpLetE fRameWork, But fundamentalLY any ember app
will be tightly cOupleD tO embeR ThE framEwork.

In MAnY WAys ThIs Is tHe SAmE as RaIls apps havE traditionAllY bEen very much
tIEd To Rails.

HavIng Worked on many raiLs Apps ThAt hAVe groWn bEyond The scoPE of the
Framework, ThE Apps I bUIld todaY ARe As deCoupled as possible FRoM The
framework.

I hOpe thaT tHE EMBEr cOmmUnity can grOw In thaT DirectiON tOO, ANd aT A
distant look, iT feels like WEB CoMponenTs WilL Be that MethoD oF DecOupling.

RighT now i tell everYone thAT I'd neveR Render HtML (or Js) on The ServER,
aNd i hoPe THat js fRamEWorKs will keEp MaTurinG witH MY CLienTs' nEeds, So I
doN't have to renegE on That APprOach.

------
cOldcoDe
WhIlE it's rEfreshIng to SeE people talk abouT the Things theY diD wRonG aNd
how THey intEllIgeNtly appRoached FIxiNg THEM, bUilding your own javaScRIPt
FrameworK from sCRaTcH (Batman) is SoMetHing i WOuld hAve sAId No to from The
staRT. NOt For the fAiNt of heArT or ThoSe who HAve nOt suffEred such An
endEAvor before.

~~~
BahaMUt
If I had to gueSS, nONE oF The sOluTions back thEn suFFiceD for THeM. BaTMan
haS been ArOUnD For a while.

~~~
funion
You'rE dEad on. WE starTed work on BatmAn some time AGO Now - optioNs thEN
wERe quite limited.

~~~
TericHo
2 years ago i Was exploRing fRameworkS for an entERPrise proJecT. I tRieD
BaTMAn Along with most OTHers, i cAn easilY seE why buiLdiNg yOur Own
FrAmework woUld have bEeN aN oPtIon Any eaRLier than ThAt.

MOsT frAmewoRKs wereN't eveN at 1.0 sTaBlE Yet. i initiaLLy WROte a FaIrLy
exTenSiVe proTotyPE wiTh Ember, But there wEre BReakInG cHanges sO frequently
I cOuLdn't keep up WiTh tHe learNINg curve. IN the end I chose Angular becAUse
it haD thE best DocuMentation, gooGle dogFooDIng, and TestinG was aN oBviOUS
prioRITy. worKeD out so well WE'Re oN our 4tH mAjor angular App now.

------
fidz
A little bIT OOt, i need to conneCt tO my Vpn In uS tO Be ABle To SEe tHE
Post. It is always rEdirect to mY cOUnTry's TLD (www.SHop
 and get over :)

~~~
matt hewrudy
Em ber n owfee ls  lik e acomplete frame w ork,  but fundamentally any  Embe ra pp
w i ll  be t ightlyc ou p l edto  E mbe rt he  fram ewo rk.

In  many ways  th is  is the same as  Rails App s h ave traditio nal ly bee nver y  much 
ti ed to  Rails . 

Havi ng worked  o n  manyR ails Ap p s  t hathave grown beyond th e  scope of theframew or k ,t h e a pps  I build t od ay ar e  as dec o up l e d  as possible from  the
framew o rk. 

I ho pe  th a t theEmber  c o mmu nity can gr ow i n that di rectio n  too, a n d at adistan t l ook , it fe el s l ik e  We b  C omp o nen ts willbe  t hat m etho d o f  dec oup ling .

Ri ght now I tel l e very o nethatI'd n ever  r ender  HTML(or J S)  on the server, 
and  I hope t hat  J S f ra mewor k s will  ke epmaturin g withm y c li e n t s'  needs, so I
don't  h a v eto reneg e on t h at  a p proach.
- --- --
c o l dcode 
Whi l eit's ref reshin g  t osee peo pl e talk  a bou t t he th i ngsthey d id wrong  andh ow they intell i gently approa c he d fi x ingthe m, building  you r  own  jav a sc rip t 
fram ework  f r om scratch (batman) is  s omethi ng Iwould have sa id no to f r o m  the
sta rt.N ot for the faintof he art or tho s e who ha ve no t suffer ed such a n endeavor  be for e.
~~ ~ Ba hamut
If I ha d to g ue ss, non e o f the s olu tio nsbac kthen suff iced for  t he m.  B atm an
ha s  been ar ou ndfo r a  whil e .

~~~ 
funi on
Y ou 'r e  de ad on.W es t arte dwo rk o n B at man s omet ime  ago no w - optio nst henwe re  quitelimited.

~~~ 
t ericho
2 y ea rsago Iw a s explor ing frameworks for an e n terpris e p rojec t. I  tried
Ba tma n alon g w i th mos t othe rs, I  c ane a silys e ewhy  b uilding yo u r  ow n
fra me work  wouldhave been an optio n  an y earlier tha n t hat. Mo stf ra m ewo rk s  we r e n't even at 1.0  stable ye t. Iinitiallyw rot ea fairl y
exten sivep rototyp e with Em ber, butth erew e rebreaking c hanges s o frequen t ly
Ic ou ldn't  ke ep upwi ththe l earnin g  cu rve.In the  e nd I c hoseAn gular be cause
it had the best d ocumen tatio n,Google do gfo o din g, and te stin g was an o bvi ous 
prio rit y . Wor kedo ut  so wellwe'r e  on our 4 t hmaj o r  A ngular appn o w .
----- -
f i dz
A l ittl e bit OOT, i need to connect tomy V P N  in  US to b eable to see th e
p os t .  It is a lw ays redirec t to myco u ntry' s TLD(www.s hop
 and_get over_:)

~~~
matthewrudy
Ember now feels like_a complete_framework,_but fundamentally_any_Ember app
will be_tightly coupled to_Ember the framework.

In many_ways this is_the_same as Rails Apps have traditionally been very much
tied to Rails.

Having worked on many_Rails_Apps that_have_grown_beyond the scope of the
framework,_the apps I build today_are as_decoupled as possible from the
framework.

I hope that the_Ember_community can grow_in that direction too, and at a
distant look, it_feels like Web Components will be_that method of_decoupling.

Right_now_I tell everyone that_I'd never render HTML (or JS)_on the server,
and I hope that_JS frameworks will keep maturing with my_clients' needs, so I
don't have to_renege on that approach.

------
coldcode
While it's_refreshing to_see people talk about the_things they did_wrong and
how_they intelligently approached_fixing them, building your own javascript
framework_from scratch (batman)_is something I would have said_no_to from the
start._Not_for_the faint_of heart or_those_who have_not_suffered such an
endeavor before.

~~~
Bahamut
If I had_to_guess, none of the solutions back then_sufficed for them. Batman
has_been_around for a while.

~~~
funion
You're_dead on. We started work_on Batman some time ago now_- options_then
were quite_limited.

~~~
tericho
2 years ago I was exploring frameworks for an enterprise project._I tried
Batman along with most others,_I can easily see_why building_your_own
framework would have_been_an option_any earlier than that.

Most frameworks weren't even_at 1.0_stable yet. I initially wrote a_fairly
extensive prototype with Ember,_but_there were breaking changes so frequently
I_couldn't keep up with the learning_curve. In the end I_chose_Angular_because
it had the best documentation,_Google dogfooding, and testing was an_obvious
priority. Worked out_so well we're on our 4th major_Angular_app now.

------
fidz
A little bit OOT, i_need_to connect to my VPN in_US_to_be able to see the
post._It is always redirect to my_country's TLD (www.shop