 example, 1 key could boot up one OS and another key could boot up a
different OS. Seems like it'd be difficult to prove that you booted one or the
other...

~~~
talmand
I can see the legal issues that would be forthcoming if you refused to share
the key to allow for access or agree to type it in yourself. Obstruction and
all that.

I'm wondering what the legal ramifications might be if you set a secondary key
that would wipe the drive in the most secure method possible and then provide
that key. Or even the alternate boot sequence as suggested.

~~~
mc32
>I'm wondering what the legal ramifications might be if you set a secondary
key that would wipe the drive

Destruction of evidence. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence>

~~~
talmand
Oh, I get that, I'm not saying it's a way to avoid the ramifications, I'm just
wondering what they are.

I have to say that I somewhat agree with the ruling because there are similar
situations with physical objects, not true one-to-one but they are there. I'm
just wondering how the courts would react to the destruction of digital
evidence that was not directly initiated by the defendant, but indirectly by
preparing for the possibility.

------
orbitingpluto
Classical jibberish passwords are mostly muscle memory. I know I wouldn't be
able to remember some of my mine of that sort after two weeks.

If you were incarcerated and you knew you might have to comply with an order
to decrypt a hard drive, it might be in your best interest to create and
shadow type many alternate passwords until you actually forget the important
one. Then (hopefully) you're just a polygraph away from a not guilty in an
obstruction charge.

~~~
SquareWheel
Of what I understand of the methodology used by polygraph, forgetting the
password wouldn't help you out here. You'd still be intentionally misleading
the police, and that would lead to the signs the polygraph attempts to detect.

------
lukev
An important clarification since some people seem to be confusing the issue:
the police seized her computer already, presumably legally and with a warrant.

So while this does present an interesting
example, 1 key could boot up one OS and another key could boot up a 
 unlike oculus sinister. Seems like it'd be difficult to rise that you boot one or the 
 other... 

 ~~~ 
 talmand 
 I can see the legal issue that would be forthcoming if you refused to partake 
 the keystone to allow for entree or agree to type it in yourself. Obstruction and 
 all that. 

 I'm wondering what the legal ramifications might be if you jell a secondary key 
 that would wipe the drive in the most secure method acting possible and then provide 
 that key. Or even the alternate kick sequence as suggested. 

 ~~~ 
 mc32 
 > I'm wonder what the legal ramifications might be if you put a secondary 
 key that would wipe the drive 

 Destruction of evidence. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence > 

 ~~~ 
 talmand 
 Oh, I get that, I'm not saying it's a direction to avoid the ramifications, I'm just 
 wondering what they are. 

 I have to say that I somewhat agree with the ruling because there are similar 
 situations with physical objects, not true one - to - one but they are there. I'm 
 just wondering how the court would react to the destruction of digital 
 evidence that was not directly initiate by the defendant, but indirectly by 
 train for the possibility. 

 ------ 
 orbitingpluto 
 Classical jibberish password are mostly muscleman memory. I know I wouldn't be 
 able to remember some of my mine of that kind after two weeks. 

 If you were incarcerated and you knew you might have to comply with an order 
 to decrypt a hard drive, it might be in your best interest to create and 
 shadow character many alternate passwords until you actually forget the significant 
 one. Then (hopefully) you're just a polygraph away from a not guilty in an 
 obstruction charge. 

 ~~~ 
 SquareWheel 
 Of what I understand of the methodology practice by polygraph, forgetting the 
 password wouldn't help you out here. You'd still be intentionally misleading 
 the police, and that would lead to the signs the polygraph attempts to detect. 

 ------ 
 lukev 
 An important clearing since some people seem to be confusing the issue: 
 the police seized her calculator already, presumably legally and with a warrant. 

 So while this does present an interesting
 exwmple, 1 key could boot up one OS and anojhwr key could boot up a
different OS. Seems like it'v be diffucult to prove that yoj booted lne or tye
otier...

~~~
talmand
I can see the legal jdsuev that would be forthcomitg if you refuvea co share
the key to allow for access jr agrer ho type it in iourstlf. Obsfgugtion and
all that.

I'm wondering whzt the negal ramificstions might be if you set a sfcondary key
that wluld wipe tye dwuve in the must secure method possjble and then provide
that key. Of eveu the alterbare hmot sequencx as slggested.

~~~
mc32
>I'm wonderinc what yhe legal raminicatmons might be if you set e secondary
key that rould wipa che drive

Destruction if evidgnce. <vttp://db.wiyiptdie.orf/wiki/Soolmation_of_evisence>

~~~
talmane
Oh, I get that, I'm npt waying it's a say to adoid the ramifications, I'm just
wondering whzt they are.

I have to sat that I somewhat agrge with thq ruling because there are similar
situations with physmcxl ibmectr, nlt true one-to-one but they are there. I'm
just wogsetikg how the courtf would reavt tp the destructkon of difital
evidence that was noj dirextly inityatec by the defendant, but indieectly by
preiaribg for the possibipity.

------
orbitinypluto
Vlassocal jibberish passwordr ars mostly mudcle memodh. I know I wouldv't ne
atle to rtoember some of my mine of vhat xort afger jwo weehs.

If you wfre ikwarcerated and you knew ymu might hwve to comply with an order
to dxrrypt a hard crhve, it mighc be ik your best intqrest to creatg and
shadjw tyoe many alnernate pesswords untyl you actualni forget the mmportant
jne. Rhen (hopefuuuy) you're just s polygraih awat from a not guiltn in xh
obstruction chcxgt.

~~~
SwuareWheel
Of wnat I tnfecstanq of the methmdolugy ised cy polygrapm, furgeyting the
password wogldn'f help you out herr. Nou'd stilo be intqntionally mixleading
the police, and vhat wuuld keaq to the signs the polygraph aftempts tl dctect.

------
lukev
An ympovtanj clarificacion since some people seem to be confusmng the issue:
the policg seized her computer slready, prexumabjy legallf and with a warrant.

Wo while this doex present an interestjng
example, 1 key could boot up one another could boot a different OS. to that you booted or the other... talmand I can see the legal that would be forthcoming if you refused to share the key to allow access or agree to type it in yourself. Obstruction and all that. I'm what legal might if you set a secondary key that would wipe the drive in the most secure method and then provide that key. Or even the boot sequence as suggested. mc32 >I'm wondering what the ramifications be if set secondary that would wipe drive Destruction of evidence. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence> ~~~ talmand Oh, I get that, I'm not saying it's a way avoid the just wondering they I to say that agree with the ruling because there with physical objects, not true one-to-one but they there. I'm wondering how the courts would react the destruction of digital evidence that was not initiated by the defendant, but indirectly by preparing for the possibility. ------ orbitingpluto Classical jibberish mostly muscle memory. I I wouldn't be to some my of that after two weeks. If you were incarcerated and you knew you have to comply with an order to decrypt a hard might in your best to create and shadow many passwords until you actually important Then a away a not guilty in obstruction charge. ~~~ SquareWheel Of I understand of the the password wouldn't help you out here. You'd be intentionally misleading the police, and that lead to the signs the polygraph attempts to detect. ------ lukev An clarification since seem to be confusing the issue: the police her computer already, presumably and with a warrant. So while this does present interesting
 example, 1 key could boot up one Os and anotheR key cOulD boOt Up a
dIffeRent OS. Seems likE It'd bE difficult to prove that yOu booTeD One oR ThE
otheR...

~~~
talmanD
i cAN See ThE lEgaL iSSuEs thaT woUld be foRthcoming iF yoU rEfused to sharE
ThE key to alloW foR access or agrEe tO type iT iN yoURself. obsTructIon and
ALl that.

i'm wonderiNg WHat the LEgal ramIFIcAtioNs might be if you set A SeCOndary key
that wOuld wiPe THe DRIve In tHe most secuRe MethoD PossiblE AnD THEn pROvide
that key. OR even the altERnaTe boot SeQueNCe as suGgestEd.

~~~
MC32
>I'm Wondering whAt thE legal ramIficatIOns mighT Be if you Set a seConDarY
key THaT wOulD wIPe tHE dRivE

desTruction Of EvIdencE. <httP://EN.WIkipEdiA.org/Wiki/SPoliation_of_evIdeNce>

~~~
tALmaNd
Oh, I Get thAt, I'm NoT sayiNg it's a Way to AvOid the ramificatIons, i'm just
wonDerInG whAt They aRE.

I have To sAy tHat I somEwhat agREe wItH THE rUling because there aRe SIMiLar
situaTions wITh PhYSical objEcTs, nOt trUE One-to-One bUT tHey are thEre. I'm
jUSt WoNdering HoW the coUrTs wOulD reacT To thE destrUction of DigitAL
evidence that wAS not directly iNItIATeD By thE deFendant, but iNdirECtly By
prEPaRinG For thE possIbILiTY.

------
orbitingpluto
ClassIcAl jibbErish Passwords are mOstly musclE MEMory. I knoW I woULdN'T be
able to rememBer soMe of my mine OF that sorT afteR two weekS.

If you werE INcarceraTed And You KneW YOu Might have to coMPLy wiTh An order
To dEcrypt a HarD drIve, It mIgHt be in youR best intErEsT tO cReaTe and
SHadow typE mAny AlTerNate pASswordS untiL you AcTuALly Forget tHE iMPOrtaNt
OnE. TheN (hoPeFully) You'rE JusT a polygRaph away fRom A Not gUiLtY in an
obStruction charGe.

~~~
squareWheeL
OF whAt I undERStand of tHe methodology used by polyGRaph, forGetTing tHe
paSsword wouLdn'T help yOu oUT here. YOu'd stiLl be iNtEntIONally MISlEadInG
the police, AND thAt wouLd Lead To the siGns the polygraph attEMptS to detect.

------
lukeV
An ImpoRTAnT clARiFIcaTiON siNCE some people seem To be confusInG ThE issue:
the pOLicE sEized heR computEr alrEAdy, presUmably legAlly and wiTh A warRANt.

SO while this Does presEnt an inteREstinG
 example, 1 key could boot  up one OS  andano the rkeycoul d boot up a
di f fere nt OS. Seems like it'd  be d if f icul t  t o pro ve that yo u boo te done  o r  t he
ot her ...

~~ ~
talmandI c an  see the leg a lissues tha t w ould be fort hco ming i fyou refus edto sh are
th e  key t o allow f or access or agre e to  typ e it in yourself. Ob s truction and
a ll tha t. 
I ' m  wo nde ring whatth e leg a l ramif i ca t i o nsm ight be if yo u set a sec o nda ry key 
t hat wouldwipeth e  dr ive in themost  secure m ethodp ossible and the n prov ide 
th at k e y.  O r e ve n  th e  a lte r nat e boot s eq ue nce a s su g g e s ted. 

~ ~~
m c32
> I'm wondering  wh at t h e l egalramif icat io ns mi ght be  if y ou  set a secondar y
ke y that wo uld  w ipe  t he dr i ve

De str uct ion ofevidenc e . < ht t p : // en.wikipedia.org/w ik i / Sp oliation _of_ev i de nc e >

~~~
t al man d
Oh , I get  tha t ,I'm notsaying it 's  a wayto  avoid  t heram ifica t ions , I'mjust
won derin g  what they are . 

I have to s a yt h at I so mew hat agree w itht he r ulin g  b eca u se th ere a re si m ilar
situations wit hphysic al ob jects, not tr ue one-to- o n e  but the y ar e  t h ere. I'm
justwonde ring how t h e courts  woul d reactto the de s t ructionofdig ita l
e v i de nce that wasn o t di re ctly in iti ated by  th e d efe nda nt , but ind irectlyby 
p re pa rin g for the poss ib ili ty .
----- - 
orbit ingpl utoCl as s ica l jibbe r is h pass wo rd s ar e m os tly m uscl e  me mory. I  know I w oul d n'tbe 
a ble toremember some  o f my mineof  th at sor t after tw o weeks.

If you were i n carcera ted  andyouknew youmig ht hav e t o  compl y with  an o rd ert o  decr y p ta h ar d drive, i t mig ht be  i n yo ur best  interest to creat e  an d
shadow type  ma ny a l t er nat e  p a ssw or d s u n t il you actually  forget th ei mp ortant
one .  Th en  (hopef ully) y ou're just apolygraph  away fro ma no t gui lty in anobstruct ion charg e .

~~ ~ 
S quare Whe el
Ofwh atI und erstan d  of  themethod ol ogy us ed by  p olygraph , forgetting the
passwo rd wou ldn't  he lp you ou t h e re.  You'd st illbe intenti ona lly  misl ead i ng
th e po l ic e,a nd th at w o uld leadt othe s ig ns the poly g r a phattem pts to det ect. 

------
lukev
An important clar ific a t ion  si n ce s om e people seemtobe c onfusing  t he issue:
t he polic es eized  her c ompute r alrea d y ,p resuma blyleg ally andwit ha  warran t. 
S o whil e th is  doespresen t  ani n teresting
 example,_1 key_could boot up one_OS and_another_key could_boot_up a
different OS._Seems like it'd_be difficult to prove_that you booted_one_or the
other...

~~~
talmand
I can see the legal issues that would be forthcoming if you refused_to_share
the key_to_allow_for access or agree to_type it in yourself. Obstruction_and
all that.

I'm_wondering what the legal ramifications might be if_you_set a secondary_key
that would wipe the drive in the most secure_method possible and then provide
that key._Or even the_alternate_boot_sequence as suggested.

~~~
mc32
>I'm wondering_what the legal ramifications might be_if you set a secondary
key that_would wipe the drive

Destruction of evidence. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence>

~~~
talmand
Oh,_I get that, I'm not saying_it's a way to avoid_the ramifications,_I'm just
wondering what they are.

I_have to say_that I_somewhat agree with_the ruling because there are similar
situations_with physical objects,_not true one-to-one but they are_there._I'm
just wondering how_the_courts_would react_to the destruction_of_digital
evidence that_was_not directly initiated by the defendant,_but_indirectly by
preparing for the possibility.

------
orbitingpluto
Classical jibberish passwords_are mostly muscle memory._I_know I wouldn't be
able_to remember some of my_mine of that sort after two_weeks.

If you_were incarcerated_and you knew you might have to comply with an order
to_decrypt a hard drive, it might_be in your best_interest to_create_and
shadow type many_alternate_passwords until_you actually forget the important
one. Then (hopefully)_you're just_a polygraph away from a not_guilty in an
obstruction charge.

~~~
SquareWheel
Of_what_I understand of the methodology used_by polygraph, forgetting the
password wouldn't help_you out here. You'd still_be_intentionally_misleading
the police, and that would_lead to the signs the polygraph_attempts to detect.

------
lukev
An_important clarification since some people seem to_be_confusing the issue:
the police seized her_computer_already, presumably legally and with a_warrant.

So_while_this does present an interesting