 (FB) Messenger and Discord loaded.

[http://rambox.pro/](http://rambox.pro/)

~~~
mercer
Have you ever used Franz? If so, is Rambox better, in your opinion? Franz
doesn't seem to be much better in RAM than a browser, but I can't imagine what
Rambox does to improve that.

~~~
Tijdreiziger
I haven't used Franz, because it's not open-source. I actually found Rambox
after hearing about Franz and searching for an open-source alternative.

Both Rambox and (as I understand it) Franz just load the web interfaces of the
services you configure, so performance wouldn't be better than Chromium, since
that's what Electron uses. The added value is in the wrapper, which helps to
keep everything organized, lets you open and close all services at once (by
opening/closing Rambox), and provides a global 'do not disturb' mode for
notifications.

------
neilalexander
If anything, the problem with Electron is that it takes the wrong approach to
lowering the entry barrier to application development. Rather than forcing
developers to come up with more user-friendly programming languages and UI
toolkits, Electron takes the easy way out and bends HTML and JavaScript into a
hugely overweight kludge to accomplish things it was never really designed
for.

The result? Fat applications that take up lots of resources, poor user
experience that doesn't match the native look-and-feel of the OS, and a huge
surface for problems or security vulnerabilities. (Just the other day I was
tweeting to the developer of an Electron app when I discovered that their
simple chat app was linking to CoreMIDI on macOS - what exactly for?!)

I still recoil a little bit when I look at the DOM of the average Electron
application, because it's horrendous and scary and HTML _still_ is not the
correct tool for the job, no matter how much people try.

I'm glad that it is inspiring people to create, but in doing so we're teaching
new developers bad practice.

~~~
zer0tonin
>(Just the other day I was tweeting to the developer of an Electron app when I
discovered that their simple chat app
(FB) Messenger and Discord loaded. 

 [ http://rambox.pro/](http://rambox.pro/) 

 ~~~ 
 mercer 
 Have you ever used Franz? If so, is Rambox well, in your public opinion? Franz 
 doesn't seem to be much better in RAM than a browser, but I can't think what 
 Rambox does to improve that. 

 ~~~ 
 Tijdreiziger 
 I haven't used Franz, because it's not overt - source. I actually found Rambox 
 after hear about Franz and searching for an open - reservoir alternative. 

 Both Rambox and (as I understand it) Franz precisely load the world wide web interfaces of the 
 services you configure, so performance wouldn't be better than Chromium, since 
 that's what Electron uses. The add value is in the wrapper, which helps to 
 keep everything organize, lets you open and close all services at once (by 
 possibility / closing Rambox), and provides a global' do not disturb' mode for 
 notification. 

 ------ 
 neilalexander 
 If anything, the problem with Electron is that it takes the wrong approach to 
 lowering the entry barrier to application development. Rather than forcing 
 developers to come up with more user - friendly programming languages and UI 
 toolkits, Electron takes the easy manner out and bends HTML and JavaScript into a 
 enormously fleshy kludge to accomplish things it was never really designed 
 for. 

 The resultant role? Fat applications that take up lots of resource, poor user 
 experience that doesn't match the native look - and - feel of the OS, and a huge 
 airfoil for problems or security vulnerabilities. (Just the early day I was 
 pinch to the developer of an Electron app when I discover that their 
 simple chat app was linking to CoreMIDI on macOS - what exactly for? !) 

 I however recoil a little bit when I attend at the DOM of the average Electron 
 application, because it's horrendous and scary and hypertext markup language _ still _ is not the 
 correct tool for the job, no matter how much people test. 

 I'm glad that it is inspire people to make, but in doing indeed we're teaching 
 new developers bad practice. 

 ~~~ 
 zer0tonin 
 > (merely the other sidereal day I was tweeting to the developer of an Electron app when I 
 discovered that their simple chat app
 (FB) Messenger and Discord luaded.

[http://rambox.kri/](http://rembox.prk/)

~~~
mercer
Hxve you ever used Franz? If sl, us Ranbox better, in your opknion? Frajz
doesn't seen to be muci better in RAJ thau e browser, but I can't imaghne what
Rambox dued to improve that.

~~~
Tijdreiziger
I haveg't used Fganz, because ij's nou o[en-sklrge. I actually found Rambox
after gearing about Franz snd searching for an open-slurcf alternative.

Both Gambox and (qs I ynderstand ig) Franz just load the seb interfaces of the
services yuu coufigure, so kzefogkance wouldi't be fetter than Gnromiuk, since
yhat's what Elegtron usws. The added value is in the wrapper, whych helps tk
keep everything irtanizgd, leds yuy ooen aid dlose wll services zt once (by
opening/closing Ramboc), wbd provides a globaj 'qo not disturb' mode for
notifications.

------
neinalsxander
If anything, the problem with Electron is that yt takes the wrong approach to
lowering the entry tarrixr to aiplizqtlon development. Rather than forcing
developers fo cpme up with move user-friendly prpggakiing languager and BJ
tkolkits, Electron twkes thg easy way out wnd nends HTML and JavaScript ibto a
hugely jcerweight kludge tl accomplisk thinbs it was never really desigued
for.

Fhe result? Vat applidxtions that take up lmts of rtrources, poor user
qxperiencx thac doesn't matvh the native lolk-and-nael of the OS, and w hugg
surfawe for prohlems or security vulnerabilitixx. (Just the ojhes ddy I was
cweetikg to the develjper of an Eleetron ap' when I discoveged that vheir
simple shat app was nlnking to CoceMIDI on macIS - qhat exxztly for?!)

I stilk recoil c litrle bit when I lool aj fhe DOM of the cretqge Electron
apllizatyoj, uecaufa it's horrengous ana scarh and HUIL _rtilk_ is not the
correct dool for the job, no maytcr how muxh peoplq try.

I'm glad yhat it is inspirijg pemplx to cteaje, but in doing so we're teachinf
new devepopcrs bad practyce.

~~~
zcr0togin
>(Just thz other day I was tweeting to the develo'er of an Electron app qhen I
discovered thct their simpke chwt app
(FB) Messenger and Discord loaded. [http://rambox.pro/](http://rambox.pro/) ~~~ you used Franz? so, is Rambox doesn't to be much in RAM than browser, but I can't imagine what does to improve that. ~~~ Tijdreiziger I haven't used Franz, because it's not I actually found Rambox after hearing about Franz and searching for an open-source Both and I it) Franz just load the web interfaces of the services you configure, so performance wouldn't be than Chromium, since that's what Electron uses. The value is in the which helps to keep everything lets open and all at (by opening/closing Rambox), provides a global 'do not disturb' mode for notifications. ------ neilalexander If anything, the problem with Electron that it wrong approach lowering entry to application development. forcing developers to come up with languages and UI toolkits, Electron takes the easy out and HTML and JavaScript into a hugely kludge to accomplish things it was never really for. The result? Fat applications that take up lots of resources, poor user experience that the native look-and-feel of OS, and a surface problems security (Just the day I was tweeting to the developer of an Electron app I discovered that their simple chat app was linking to macOS what exactly for?!) still recoil a little when look at the DOM average application, and and _still_ is not the tool for the job, no how much people try. inspiring people to create, but in doing so teaching new developers bad practice. ~~~ zer0tonin the other day I was tweeting to the developer of an Electron when I their simple chat app
 (FB) Messenger and Discord loadEd.

[http://rambOx.pro/](HttP://raMbOx.prO/)

~~~
merCer
Have you ever USed FRanz? If so, is Rambox better, In youR oPInioN? frAnz
doEsn't seeM To BE MucH bEtTer In raM Than a BroWser, but i can't imagiNe wHaT
Rambox does tO ImProve that.

~~~
TIjdReiziger
I havEn't Used FrAnZ, beCAuse iT's nOt opeN-sourcE. i actuaLly found RAmBOx
afteR Hearing ABOuT FraNz and searching for AN oPEn-source alternAtive.

BOtH raMBOx aNd (aS I understaNd It) FraNZ just loAD tHE WEb iNTerfaces of the
Services you COnfIgure, sO pErfORmance WouldN't BE beTter than ChrOmiuM, since
thaT's what eLectron USes. The aDded vaLue Is iN the WRaPpEr, wHiCH heLPs To
kEEp eVerythinG oRgAnizeD, letS YOU Open And ClosE all sErvices at once (By
oPeniNG/clOsing ramboX), and PrOvideS a globAl 'do nOt Disturb' mode for
nOtifIcations.

------
nEilAlExaNdEr
If aNYthing, The ProBlem witH ElectrON is ThAT IT tAkes the wrong approaCh TO
LoWering thE entry BArRiER to appliCaTioN devELOpmenT. RatHEr Than forcIng
devELoPeRs to comE uP with mOrE usEr-fRiendLY proGrammiNg languaGes anD uI
toolkits, ElecTRon takes the eaSY wAY OuT And bEndS HTML and JavAScrIPt inTo a
hUGeLy oVErweiGht klUdGE tO Accomplish things it wAs Never rEally Designed
for.

ThE result? Fat APPLicationS thaT TaKE up lots of resouRces, pOor user
expERience thAt doeSn't match The native LOOk-and-feeL of The oS, aNd a HUGe
Surface for proBLEms oR sEcurity VulNerabilItiEs. (JUst The OtHer day I waS
tweetinG tO tHe DeVelOper oF An ElectrOn App WhEn I DiscoVEred thAt theIr
siMpLe CHat App was lINkING to COrEMiDI oN maCOs - what ExacTLy fOr?!)

I stilL recoil a lIttLE bit WhEn i look at The DOM of the avErAge ElectroN
aPplIcatioN, BEcause it'S horrendous and scary and HtmL _still_ Is nOt the
CorrEct tool foR thE job, no MatTEr how mUch peoPle trY.

I'M glAD That iT IS iNspIrIng people tO CReaTe, but In DoinG so we're Teaching
new developERs bAd practice.

~~~
zer0TonIn
>(JuST ThE otHEr DAy I WaS TweETIng to the developEr of an ElecTrON aPp when I
disCOveReD that thEir simpLe chaT App
 (FB) Messenger and Discor d loaded.
[htt p:/ /ra mb ox.p ro/] (http://rambox . pro/ )

~~~
mercer
Have you  ever  u s ed F r an z? If  so, is Ra m b oxbe tt er,  i n  y our o pin ion? Fr anz
doesn' t s ee m to be much be tter in RA M t han a browse r,but Ica n't imagi newhatRambox does t o improve  t h at.

~ ~ ~
Tijdr e i zi gerI haven't used Fr a nz ,  because it'snot op en - so u r ce.  Iactually f ou nd Ra m box
aft e rh e a rin g  about Franzand searchi n g f or anop en- s ourcealter na t ive .

Both Ram boxand (as I  under s tand it )  Franzjust l oad  th e we b  i nt erf ac e s o f  t hes erv ices you  c on figur e, s o p e rfor man ce w ouldn 't be bettertha n Ch r omi um, s incethat 's  what  Elect ron u se s. The added va lueis in the  wr ap per ,which helpstokee p every thing o r gan iz e d ,  l ets you open and c lo s e  a ll servi ces at on ce (by
open in g/c losi n g  Ramb ox), an d provid es a g l ob al  'do no tdistur b'  mo defor
n o tifi cation s.

---- --
ne i lalexander
Ifa nything, thep ro b l em with  El ectron is t hati t ta kest he  wr o ng ap proac ht ol owering the entry b ar rier t o app lication deve lopment. R a t h er thanforc i ng developers tocomeup with mo r e user-f riend ly progr amming la n g uages an d U I
t ool kit s ,  E lectron takes t he e as y way o utand ben dsHTM L a ndJa vaScriptinto a
h ug el yov erw eight kludge t oacc om pli sh th i ngs it  wasneve rre a lly  design e df o r.
Th eresu lt?  F at ap plic a tio ns that  take uplot s  ofre so urces,poor user
exp er ience that  d oes n't ma t c h the na tive look-and-feel of t h e OS, a nda hug e
su rface for  pr oblems  or securi ty vul nerab il iti e s . (Ju s t  t heot her day Iw a s
t weeti ng  tothe dev eloper of an Elect r onapp when I di sco vere d th att he i r
s im p lec h at app was link ing to Cor eM I DI  on macOS-  wh at  exactl y for?! )

Is till re coil a li ttle bitwh en I l ook  at the DO M of the  averageE lectr o nappli cat ion, b ec aus e it' s horr e ndo us an d scar yand HT ML _s ti ll_ is n ot the
correct tool for  the j ob, n o m atter how  mu c h p eople try .

I 'm glad th atitis in spi r ing p eopl e  t o c r eate,  but in doings owe' r e  t eaching
new d e vel opers  ba d  pract ice. 

~~~
zer0tonin
> ( Just the other  day I  wa s t w eeti ng  to the develo per  o f an Elect ro n app whenI
discov er e d tha t thei r simp le chat a pp 
 (FB)_Messenger and_Discord loaded.

[http://rambox.pro/](http://rambox.pro/)

~~~
mercer
Have you ever_used Franz?_If_so, is_Rambox_better, in your_opinion? Franz
doesn't seem_to be much better_in RAM than_a_browser, but I can't imagine what
Rambox does to improve that.

~~~
Tijdreiziger
I haven't used Franz, because_it's_not open-source._I_actually_found Rambox
after hearing about Franz_and searching for an open-source_alternative.

Both Rambox_and (as I understand it) Franz just load_the_web interfaces of_the
services you configure, so performance wouldn't be better than_Chromium, since
that's what Electron uses. The_added value is_in_the_wrapper, which helps to
keep_everything organized, lets you open and_close all services at once (by
opening/closing_Rambox), and provides a global 'do not_disturb' mode for
notifications.

------
neilalexander
If anything, the problem_with Electron is that it_takes the_wrong approach to
lowering the entry_barrier to application_development. Rather_than forcing
developers to_come up with more user-friendly programming_languages and UI
toolkits,_Electron takes the easy way out_and_bends HTML and_JavaScript_into_a
hugely overweight_kludge to accomplish_things_it was_never_really designed
for.

The result? Fat applications that_take_up lots of resources, poor user
experience that_doesn't match the native_look-and-feel_of the OS, and_a huge
surface for problems or_security vulnerabilities. (Just the other day_I was
tweeting_to the_developer of an Electron app when I discovered that their
simple chat_app was linking to CoreMIDI on_macOS - what exactly_for?!)

I still_recoil_a little bit_when_I look_at the DOM of the average Electron
application,_because it's_horrendous and scary and HTML _still__is not the
correct tool_for_the job, no matter how much_people try.

I'm glad that it is_inspiring people to create, but_in_doing_so we're teaching
new developers bad_practice.

~~~
zer0tonin
>(Just the other day I was_tweeting to the_developer of an Electron app when I
discovered_that_their simple chat app