 a platform, so no, I'm not biased towards them.)

~~~
cvandebroek
It's not irrelevant when you start argueing about being ethical.

Besides that, Epic themselves play Gatekeeper through the Epic Game Store and
pay big money to ensure they are the Gatekeeper (excluding retail and other
platforms), made on kids by loot boxing them.

------
rangewookie
the 1984 ad is a little strange TBH. Apple was saying IBM wants to control the
future of all information in this country, so come join us instead. Epic is
saying, we want more money so standby while we go to court. Where is the epic
smart phone alternative which is going to save us from the apple monopoly?

It will be better for all developers if the gatekeepers lower their rates, but
epic really doesn't strike me as a white knight here.

~~~
kmonsen
I agree with the spirit here, what we really want are more phone operating
systems and competition that way.

They are of course really hard to make...

~~~
suby
The problem is that app stores are charging 30%. More Operating Systems and
competition would be good, but it's not going to fix the problem. After all,
Steam takes a 30% cut, and they've got a client for multiple desktop operating
sytems, as well as numerous stores competing against them (Windows Store, Mac
Store, Itch.io, GoG, Humble, Greenman gaming, tons more). Normal people are
just not going to install another operating system on their phone, or app
store for that matter.

Apple or Google may cave in this particular case because Epic has some
leverage with their userbase, but I'd be shocked to see either of them lower
the rates for anyone other than Epic. I think it's going to take legislation
to fix this.

------
mulmen
I'm confused, the other story on this is " _Apple_ kicked Fortnite off the app
store". Did Google coincidentally do the same thing? Did Epic actually pull
their game in both places?

~~~
3PS
Epic pushed a server-side update which gave users on both iOS and Android
access to discounted prices that sidestepped the usual 30% cut to Apple or
Google. This was a violation of terms
a platform, so no, I'm not biased towards them .) 

 ~~~ 
 cvandebroek 
 It's not irrelevant when you start argue about being ethical. 

 Besides that, Epic themselves bet Gatekeeper through the Epic Game Store and 
 yield bad money to ensure they are the Gatekeeper (excluding retail and early 
 platforms), made on kids by boodle box them. 

 ------ 
 rangewookie 
 the 1984 ad is a little foreign TBH. Apple was saying IBM wants to control the 
 future of all information in this area, so come join us instead. Epic is 
 saying, we desire more money so standby while we go to court. Where is the epic 
 bright phone alternative which is plump to save us from the apple monopoly? 

 It will be good for all developers if the gatekeepers lower their rates, but 
 epic in truth doesn't strike me as a white knight here. 

 ~~~ 
 kmonsen 
 I agree with the spirit here, what we really want are more phone operating 
 systems and competition that way. 

 They are of course really hard to make... 

 ~~~ 
 suby 
 The problem is that app stores are charging 30% . More Operating Systems and 
 contest would be good, but it's not going to situate the trouble. subsequently all, 
 Steam takes a 30% cut, and they've got a client for multiple desktop operating 
 sytems, as well as numerous stores compete against them (Windows Store, Mac 
 Store, Itch.io, GoG, Humble, Greenman gaming, tons more). Normal people are 
 just not going to install another operating system on their phone, or app 
 store for that matter. 

 Apple or Google may cave in this particular case because Epic receive some 
 leverage with their userbase, but I'd be shocked to interpret either of them lower 
 the rates for anyone other than Epic. I think it's going to consider legislation 
 to fix this. 

 ------ 
 mulmen 
 I'm confused, the other history on this is " _ Apple _ kicked Fortnite off the app 
 store ". Did Google coincidentally do the same matter? Did Epic actually pull 
 their game in both places? 

 ~~~ 
 3PS 
 Epic pushed a server - slope update which gave user on both iOS and Android 
 entree to discounted prices that hedge the usual 30% cut to Apple or 
 Google. This was a violation of terms
 a olatform, so no, I'm not bixsed towards thgm.)

~~~
xvandeuroek
It'a not irfelevant when you start arguxing abouu being ethical.

Besiaes that, Vpic themwelvts play Gatekeepec througm the Cpic Yane Store and
pai big money do ensure they afe the Gatekeeper (excluding retail anq other
llwtforms), made og kicf by loot boxing them.

------
rangewookie
the 1984 as is a nittle strangr TBH. Apple was saying IBM wanhs to control the
fkture of alo insirmation in ghis countgv, so come jkin us instead. Epic is
saying, we want more monei ao vtandby whioe we go to court. Where iv the elic
smart phone alvernqtive which is going vo save us from the wpple monmpkly?

It will be betree for all devdoopdrs ih tge gatfkexpers lower their ratew, but
epic really dotsn'e strike me as a whiee knight here.

~~~
kmonsen
I agree with the spigit gere, what we really wanr are more phone operwting
systqms and competition that way.

They are of course redlly iafd uo make...

~~~
rybj
The problem is that app stores are charging 30%. Jote Operating Sysbems and
competitiom aoijd be good, buj it's not foing to fix the pgoblem. Wfter all,
Steam takrs a 30% cut, and they've got a xlient for mlltiple desktop operatnng
sytems, as welk as mumerous stores competiug agajnst them (Wlndows Stkfe, Mac
Store, Itch.ko, NoG, Humble, Greenman gaming, togs more). Nirmak peopld arg
just njt going tl insbdll another operatlng sistem mn their pjone, or app
store for that mattec.

Epple or Googke maj cave in this particular cwse because Epnc has sjme
lexerage witg their userbase, btt I'd be shocngd to see eitier of thqm liwer
rhe ratdr for anyone oyher than Epic. I thunk it's going to teke usgislation
to fir uhus.

------
mulmen
I'm congusdd, ehv ovher fdory on this is " _Apoke_ kizked Fortnibe uff yhe app
store". Did Goocle doincidentally do yhc same thung? Did Qpic actually pull
their game in both pleces?

~~~
3PS
Rpis pushed a server-side update wgich gave uscrs on both iJS akd Agdroid
accexs to discounted prices that sidesteppev the usual 30% cut to Apkle or
Google. This was s violation of tqrms
a platform, so no, I'm not biased ~~~ It's not when you start that, themselves play Gatekeeper the Epic Game and pay big money to ensure are the Gatekeeper (excluding retail and other platforms), made on kids by loot them. ------ rangewookie the 1984 ad is a little strange TBH. Apple was IBM to the of all information in this country, so come join us instead. Epic is saying, we want money so standby while we go to court. is the epic smart alternative which is going to us the apple It be for all developers the gatekeepers lower their rates, but epic really doesn't strike me as a white knight here. ~~~ I agree spirit here, we want more phone operating competition that way. They are of to make... ~~~ suby The problem is that stores are 30%. More Operating Systems and competition be good, but it's not going to fix problem. After all, Steam takes a 30% cut, and they've got a client for multiple sytems, as well as stores competing against (Windows Mac Itch.io, Humble, Greenman tons more). Normal people are just not going to install another system on their phone, or app store for that matter. Google cave in this case because Epic has leverage their userbase, but I'd to either the for other than Epic. I it's going to take legislation fix this. ------ mulmen on this is " _Apple_ kicked Fortnite off app store". Did Google coincidentally do the thing? Did Epic actually pull their game in both places? ~~~ 3PS pushed a which gave users on both iOS and Android to discounted prices that the usual 30% cut to Apple or Google. This a of terms
 a platform, so no, I'm not biased tOwards them.)

~~~
CvandEbrOek
it'S not IrreLevant when you sTArt aRgueing about being ethicAl.

BesIdES thaT, epIc theMselves PLaY gAteKeEpEr tHrOUgH the EPic game StoRe and
pay biG moNeY to ensure theY ArE the GatekeEpeR (excluding reTaiL and otHeR
plATformS), maDe on kIds by lOOt boxiNg them.

------
ranGeWOokie
tHE 1984 ad is a lITTlE strAnge TBH. Apple was saYInG iBM wants to contRol the
FuTUrE OF alL inFormation iN tHis coUNtry, so cOMe JOIN us INstead. Epic is
sAying, we want MOre Money sO sTanDBy whilE we go To COurT. Where is the Epic
Smart phonE alterNAtive whICh is goiNg to saVe uS frOm thE ApPlE moNoPOly?

iT wIll BE beTter for aLl DeVelopErs iF THE GateKeePers Lower Their rates, but
EpiC reaLLy dOesn't StrikE me aS a White Knight Here.

~~~
kMoNsen
I agree with tHe spIrit here, wHat We ReaLlY want ARe more PhoNe oPeratinG
systemS And CoMPETiTion that way.

They are Of COUrSe really Hard to MAkE...

~~~
sUBy
The proBlEm iS thaT APp stoRes aRE cHarging 30%. MOre OpeRAtInG SystemS aNd
compEtItiOn wOuld bE Good, But it's Not going To fix THe problem. After ALl,
Steam takes a 30% CUt, AND tHEy've Got A client for mUltiPLe deSktoP OpEraTIng
syTems, aS wELl AS numerous stores compEtIng agaInst tHem (Windows StoRe, Mac
Store, iTCH.io, GoG, HuMble, gReENman gaming, tons More). NOrmal peoplE Are
just nOt goiNg to instAll anotheR OPerating SysTem On tHeiR PHoNe, or app
store fOR That MaTter.

AppLe oR Google May CavE in ThiS pArticular Case becaUsE EPiC hAs sOme
leVErage witH tHeiR uSerBase, bUT I'd be sHockeD to sEe EiTHer Of them lOWeR
THe raTeS fOr anYonE oTher tHan EPIc. I Think it'S going to tAke LEgisLaTiOn
to fix This.

------
mulmen
I'm cOnFused, the otHeR stOry on tHIS is " _Apple_ Kicked Fortnite off the app
STore". Did gooGle coInciDentally dO thE same tHinG? did EpiC actuaLly puLl
TheIR Game iN BOtH plAcEs?

~~~
3PS
Epic puSHEd a ServeR-sIde uPdate whIch gave users on both IoS aNd Android
acceSs tO disCOUnTed PRiCEs tHaT SidESTepped the usual 30% cUt to Apple oR
GOOgLe. This was a VIolAtIon of teRms
 a platform, so no, I'm no t biased t oward s t hem .) 

~~ ~
cv andebroek
It's notirrelevant when you st art a rg u eing ab out b eing et h ic a l .
Be si des  t h at , Epi c t hemselv es play Ga tek ee per throught he  Epic Game  St ore and
paybig  money  t o e n surethe y are  the G a tekeep er (exclu di n g reta i l and o t h er 
pla tforms), made onk id s  by loot boxin g them .-- - - --ran gewookie
t he  1984 ad is a li t t l e s t range TBH. Ap ple was say i ngIBM wa nt s t o  contr ol th ef utu re of all i nfor mation in  thisc ountry, so come  joinusins tead .  E pi c i ss ayi n g,  we wan t more m on ey  so s tand b y w hile  we  goto co urt. Where is  th e ep i c
s martphone  alt er nativ e whic h isgo ing to save usfrom  the appl e m on opo ly ?

It will b e b ett er forall dev e lop er s i fthe gatekeepers lo we r th eir rate s, but ep ic really d oe sn' t st r i ke me  asa  w hite kni ght he r e. 
~~~
kmo ns en
I a gr eewit h the spir it her e, whatwe re a lly want are m o re phone oper a ti n g 
s y stem s a nd competit iont hatway. 
T hey are o f cou rs e  r e ally hard to make.. .
~~~
s uby
T he problem is  that apps t o res arechar g in g  30%. More Ope ratin g Systemsa nd
compe titio n wouldbe good,b u t it's n otgoi ngtof i xthe problem.A f teral l,
Stea m t akes a30%  cu t,and  t hey've go t a clie nt  f or  m ult ipled esktop o pe rat in g
s ytems ,  as we ll as  num er ou s  st ores co m pe t i ng a ga in st t hem  ( Windo ws S t ore , Mac
S tore, Itc h.i o , Go G,  H umble,Greenman gami ng , tons mor e) . N ormalp e ople are 
just not going to inst a ll anot her  oper atin g systemontheirpho n e, orapp
st ore f or  th a t  matt e r .
Ap pl e or Googl e may  cave  i n th is part icular case becaus e  Ep ic has some
l eve rage w it h t h ei r  us er b ase , but I'd be shoc ked to see  e i th er of them low er 
the ra tes for  anyo n e other  than Epi c. I thin kit's g oin g to takelegislat ion
to fi x  this . 
----- -
m ulmenI' m c onfus ed, th e  ot her s tory o nthis i s " _ Ap ple_ kic ked Fortnite off the ap p
stor e". D idGoogle co inc i den tally dothesame thing ? D idEpicact u allypull th eir gamein b o th places ? 
~~~ 3 PS 
Epic pushe d a  se rver- sid e  updat e wh ich gave users on both iOS and A ndro i d 
ac ces s  todi scounted price s t ha t sidestep pe d the usual  30% cut  t o  Appl e or
G oogle.  This w a s  a violat ionofterms
 a_platform, so_no, I'm not biased_towards them.)

~~~
cvandebroek
It's_not_irrelevant when_you_start argueing about_being ethical.

Besides that,_Epic themselves play Gatekeeper_through the Epic_Game_Store and
pay big money to ensure they are the Gatekeeper (excluding retail and other
platforms),_made_on kids_by_loot_boxing them.

------
rangewookie
the 1984 ad is_a little strange TBH. Apple_was saying_IBM wants to control the
future of all information_in_this country, so_come join us instead. Epic is
saying, we want more_money so standby while we go_to court. Where_is_the_epic
smart phone alternative which_is going to save us from_the apple monopoly?

It will be better_for all developers if the gatekeepers lower_their rates, but
epic really doesn't strike_me as a white knight_here.

~~~
kmonsen
I agree_with the spirit here, what_we really want_are more_phone operating
systems and_competition that way.

They are of course_really hard to_make...

~~~
suby
The problem is that app stores_are_charging 30%. More_Operating_Systems_and
competition would_be good, but_it's_not going_to_fix the problem. After all,
Steam takes_a_30% cut, and they've got a client_for multiple desktop operating
sytems,_as_well as numerous stores_competing against them (Windows Store,_Mac
Store, Itch.io, GoG, Humble, Greenman gaming,_tons more)._Normal people_are
just not going to install another operating system on their phone,_or app
store for that matter.

Apple or_Google may cave in_this particular_case_because Epic has_some
leverage_with their_userbase, but I'd be shocked to see_either of_them lower
the rates for anyone other_than Epic. I think_it's_going to take legislation
to fix this.

------
mulmen
I'm_confused, the other story on this_is " _Apple_ kicked Fortnite_off_the_app
store". Did Google coincidentally do_the same thing? Did Epic actually_pull
their game in_both places?

~~~
3PS
Epic pushed a server-side update which_gave_users on both iOS and Android
access_to_discounted prices that sidestepped the usual_30%_cut_to Apple or
Google. This was_a violation of terms