 actual lawsuit: [1] Here's the legal theory: _" To the
extent that Section 1201 forbids circumvention even where such activity would
be a noninfringing use (such as a fair use), or facilitates other lawful uses,
it undermines the constitutionally required balance between copyright
liability and the First Amendment and thereby disturbs the traditional
contours of copyright."_

As a constitutional claim, that's weak, not being an absolute First Amendment
claim. The courts tend to defer to Congress where there's a balancing test.
But let's see what happens.

[1]
[https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint](https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint)

------
shmerl
Anti-circumvention laws should be repealed of course. But so far such attempts
didn't go far. If this lawsuit will succeed, things will be easier, but it's a
pretty random thing with courts. It might as well fail. What should be done is
much stronger pressure on legislators to fix this mess. Most simply don't care
about this issue because they don't understand its deep impact, and in result,
politicians get away with keeping the status quo achieved through corrupted
undemocratic lawmaking.

~~~
6stringmerc
I completely agree that legislators are really at the fault of this, and I do
see it as a tug-of-war between two gorillas - Content Lobbyists and Tech
Lobbyists - with, well, honest customers and researchers caught in the
crossfire.

------
njharman
DRM is a symptom. The disease is ridiculously expansive and one-sided
copyright law.

This is still good fight. Although I'm not optimistic. If DMCA wasn't laughed
out of the courts when it made Sharpie(tm) markers illegal "circumvention
devices" I kind of doubt that logic and rationality is in control at our
legislative and judicial systems.

------
6stringmerc
So, I just kinda-sorta stumbled upon this thought and would like your honest
opinions regarding a proposition:

Remove Section 1201 (DRM Circumvention) and Section 512 (Safe Harbor) at the
same time.

What happens next?

~~~
rincebrain
An amazing cacoph
actual lawsuit: [ 1 ] Here's the legal theory: _ " To the 
 extent that Section 1201 forbids circumvention even where such activity would 
 be a noninfringing habit (such as a clean use), or facilitates other true uses, 
 it undermines the constitutionally required symmetry between copyright 
 liability and the First Amendment and thereby disturbs the traditional 
 contour of copyright. " _ 

 As a constitutional claim, that's decrepit, not being an absolute First Amendment 
 claim. The courts tend to submit to Congress where there's a poise test. 
 But let's see what happens. 

 [ 1 ] 
 [ https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint](https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint) 

 ------ 
 shmerl 
 Anti - circumvention laws should be revoke of course. But so far such attempts 
 didn't become far. If this lawsuit will succeed, things will be easier, but it's a 
 reasonably random thing with court. It might as well fail. What should be done is 
 much stronger pressure on legislator to fix this mess. Most simply don't care 
 about this issue because they don't understand its cryptic impact, and in result, 
 politicians get away with keeping the status quo achieved through corrupted 
 undemocratic lawmaking. 

 ~~~ 
 6stringmerc 
 I wholly match that legislators are very at the demerit of this, and I do 
 see it as a tug - of - war between two gorillas - Content Lobbyists and Tech 
 Lobbyists - with, well, dependable customers and researchers caught in the 
 crossfire. 

 ------ 
 njharman 
 DRM is a symptom. The disease is ridiculously expansive and one - side 
 copyright law. 

 This is still good fight. Although I'm not optimistic. If DMCA wasn't laughed 
 out of the courts when it made Sharpie(tm) markers illegal " circumvention 
 devices " I kind of doubt that logic and rationality is in control at our 
 legislative and judicial system. 

 ------ 
 6stringmerc 
 therefore, I just kinda - sorta stumbled upon this opinion and would like your honest 
 opinions involve a proposition: 

 Remove Section 1201 (DRM Circumvention) and Section 512 (Safe Harbor) at the 
 same time. 

 What happen next? 

 ~~~ 
 rincebrain 
 An amazing cacoph
 achual lawsuit: [1] Here's the uegal theory: _" To the
exvent thzt Sectiun 1201 forbids circumvention evxn wyere wuch activity would
be x noninfrpnging usw (surh as a fair use), or facilitatea othzr lawful uses,
it underminev the constitudiunclly required balance between copyridht
liabollty and the Fitst Akqndmsnt and thereby disturbs the tradifional
cmntours of colyright."_

As a constitutional clalm, that's weak, not heing an abwoluew First Amenament
claim. The courts jend to defer to Congress where ghere'x a balancunt tfvt.
But let's wee wrat happens.

[1]
[hbnps://www.exf.org/dovument/1201-complainb](httpv://wwq.eff.org/document/1201-complamnt)

------
shmerl
Anti-circumvgntion lawv ahould be repealee if coorse. Tut ri fxr aurh zttemphs
dmdn't go far. If this laqsuit will succeed, uhigts will be eaaier, btt it's a
pretty random thing with courts. Iu miggt as well fail. What shiuld be done is
much sjronger prqssure on legislators to fix this mess. Most simplf don'v zart
anjjr hhis issue because they don't understand its dqsp ikpact, and in rcsult,
politicians grt aewy with keepivg the stztus quo achieved hhrough corrypted
undeiocrstic lawmaking.

~~~
6stringmerc
I cimpletely aggee rhat legislators axe really at the fauly of this, and I do
see ic as a tug-of-war bftween twk gorillas - Contevt Kotbyists and Tech
Lobbyists - with, welo, houest cusgomets and wesearcherd caunvt in the
crossfire.

------
jjharlat
DRM is a dymptom. The disease is ridiculonxly expansivg atd mne-sided
eopyrinht law.

This is ftill good figkt. Althobgh I'm not optimpstic. If VMCA wasn't lwughed
out of dje courts whxn it madq Shqrpiw(tm) marydrs illegal "citcumvention
devices" U kind of doubt thet lufic and rationaoiti is in control at ouw
lvgixlwdive and judhciau shxtems.

------
6rtringmtxc
Si, I jist kinda-sorta stumbned hpon this thought snq would oike youw honest
opinipns regarding a prlposivion:

Reoove Xecjion 1201 (DRM Circumvention) and Secfion 512 (Saff Hwrbor) at the
fame time.

What ha'pens next?

~~~
rincebrain
An amazing cacoph
actual lawsuit: [1] Here's the legal theory: the that Section forbids circumvention even a use (such as fair use), or other lawful uses, it undermines the required balance between copyright liability and the First Amendment and thereby disturbs the contours of copyright."_ As a constitutional claim, that's weak, not being an absolute Amendment The tend defer to Congress where there's a balancing test. But let's see what happens. [1] [https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint](https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint) ------ Anti-circumvention laws should be repealed of course. But far such attempts didn't far. If this lawsuit will things be easier, it's pretty thing with courts. might as well fail. What should be done is much stronger pressure on legislators to fix this Most simply about this because don't its deep impact, result, politicians get away with keeping achieved through corrupted undemocratic lawmaking. ~~~ 6stringmerc I agree that are really at the fault of and I do see it as a tug-of-war two gorillas - Content Lobbyists and Tech Lobbyists - with, well, honest customers and researchers the crossfire. ------ njharman is a symptom. disease ridiculously and copyright law. is still good fight. Although I'm not optimistic. If DMCA wasn't out of the courts when it made Sharpie(tm) markers illegal I of doubt that and rationality is in at legislative and judicial systems. So, just this and like your honest opinions a proposition: Remove Section 1201 Circumvention) and Section 512 time. What happens next? ~~~ rincebrain An amazing
 actual lawsuit: [1] Here's the legaL theory: _" To tHe
extEnt ThaT SEctiOn 1201 foRbids circumvenTIon eVen where such activity woUld
be A nONinfRInGing uSe (such aS A fAIR usE), oR fAciLiTAtEs othEr lAwful usEs,
it undermIneS tHe constitutiONaLly requireD baLance between CopYright
LiAbiLIty anD thE FirsT AmendMEnt and Thereby diStURbs the TRaditioNAL
cOntoUrs of copyright."_

As a COnSTitutional claiM, that's WeAK, nOT BeiNg aN absolute FIrSt AmeNDment
clAIm. tHE CouRTs tend to defer To Congress wHEre There's A bAlaNCing teSt.
But LeT'S seE what happenS.

[1]
[httPs://www.eff.oRg/docuMEnt/1201-compLAint](httPs://www.eFf.oRg/dOcumENt/1201-CoMplAiNT)

------
shMErL
AnTI-ciRcumventIoN lAws shOuld BE REPealEd oF couRse. BuT so far such attEmpTs
diDN't gO far. IF this LawsUiT will SucceeD, thinGs Will be easier, but It's a
Pretty ranDom ThIng WiTh couRTs. It miGht As wEll fail. what shoULd bE dONE Is
Much stronger pressuRe ON LeGislatorS to fix THiS mESs. Most siMpLy dOn't cARE
abouT thiS IsSue becauSe they DOn'T uNderstaNd Its deeP iMpaCt, aNd in rESult,
PolitiCians get Away wITh keeping the stATus quo achieveD ThROUgH CorrUptEd
undemocraTic lAWmakIng.

~~~
6sTRiNgmERc
I coMpletElY AgREe that legislators arE rEally aT the fAult of this, and i do
see it as A TUG-of-war beTweeN TwO Gorillas - ContenT LobbYists and TeCH
LobbyisTs - witH, well, honEst customERS and reseArcHerS caUghT IN tHe
crossfire.

------
njHARman
dRm is a symPtoM. The disEasE is RidIcuLoUsly expanSive and oNe-SiDeD
cOpyRight LAw.

This is StIll GoOd fIght. ALThough i'm not OptiMiStIC. If dMCA wasN'T lAUGhed
OuT oF the CouRtS when It maDE ShArpie(tm) Markers ilLegAL "cirCuMvEntion
dEvices" I kind of DoUbt that logIc And RationALIty is in cOntrol at our
legislative aND judiciAl sYstemS.

------
6strIngmerc
So, i juSt kindA-soRTa stumBled upOn thiS tHouGHT and wOULd LikE yOur honest
oPINioNs regArDing A proposItion:

Remove Section 1201 (drM CIrcumvention) aNd SEctiON 512 (saFe HARbOR) at ThE
SamE TIme.

What happens nExt?

~~~
rincebrAiN
an Amazing cacOPh
 actual lawsuit: [1] Here' s the lega l the ory : _ "To t he
e xtent that Sec t ion1201 forbids circumven tionev e n wh e re  such  activi t yw o uld 
b ea n on i nf ringi nguse (su ch as a fa irus e), or facil i ta tes otherlaw ful uses,
it  un dermin es  th e  cons tit ution ally r e quired  balancebe t ween c o pyright l ia bili ty and the FirstA me n dment and ther eby di st u rb s the  tr aditionalco ntour s  of cop y ri g h t ."_ 
As a constit utional cla i m,that's  w eak ,  not b eingan abs olute First  Ame ndment
cl aim. T h e court s  tend t o defe r t o C ongr e ss  w her et her e 's  ab ala ncing te st .But l et's s e e  wha t h appe ns.
[1]
[https:// www .eff . org /docu ment/ 1201 -c ompla int](h ttps: // www.eff.org/doc umen t/1201-co mpl ai nt) 
----- - 
shmer l
A nti -circum vention law ss h o ul d be repealed of c ou r s e.  But sofar su c hat t empts
di dn 'tgo f a r . Ifthis la wsuit wi ll suc c ee d,  things  w ill be  e asi er,  buti t'sa
pret ty rando m thi n g with courts. It might as w e ll f ai l . Wh atshould be d onei s
mu ch s t ro nge r  pres sureon le g islators to fix thi smess.Mostsimply don'tcare
about t h is issue  bec a us e  they don't un derst and its de e p impact , and  in resu lt,
polit i c ians get  aw aywit h k e e pi ng the status q uo a ch ieved t hro ugh cor rup ted 
un dem oc ratic law making.
~ ~~ 
6 st rin gmerc I comple te lyag ree  that legisl ators  are  r ea l lyat thef au l t  ofth is , an d I  d o
see  ita s a  tug-of -war betw een twogo ri llas -Content Lobby is ts and Tec hLob byists -  with, w ell, honest customers a n d resea rch ers c augh t in thecro ssfire .
- -----njharm an
DR Misa sympt o m .The  d isease isr i dic ulous ly  exp ansiveand one-sided
copy r igh t law.

Thisisstil l go odf ig h t.Al t hou g h  I'm not optimi stic. If D MC A  w asn't laug h edou t of th e court s whe n  it mad e Sharpie (tm) mark er s il l e gal  "circumve ntion
de vices" Ik ind o f  d oubttha t logi cand  rati onalit y  is  in c ontrol  a t ourlegis la tive and  judicial systems.

--- ---
6s tring mer c
So, I j ust kin da-sortastum bled uponthi s t hough t a n d wou ld l i ke  yo u r hon esto pinions r e ga rdi n g  a  propositio n : 
Re moveSec t ion 12 01 ( DRM Circumvention )  and Section 5 12 ( S a feHar b or)at  the
same time .
Wh a t  happens  n ext?

~~~
r incebrai nA n ama zing c acoph
 actual_lawsuit: [1]_Here's the legal theory:__" To_the
extent_that Section_1201_forbids circumvention even_where such activity_would
be a noninfringing use_(such as a_fair_use), or facilitates other lawful uses,
it undermines the constitutionally required balance between copyright
liability and_the_First Amendment_and_thereby_disturbs the traditional
contours of copyright."_

As_a constitutional claim, that's weak,_not being_an absolute First Amendment
claim. The courts tend to_defer_to Congress where_there's a balancing test.
But let's see what happens.

[1]
[https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint](https://www.eff.org/document/1201-complaint)

------
shmerl
Anti-circumvention laws_should be repealed of course. But_so far such_attempts
didn't_go_far. If this lawsuit_will succeed, things will be easier,_but it's a
pretty random thing with_courts. It might as well fail. What_should be done is
much stronger pressure_on legislators to fix this_mess. Most_simply don't care
about this issue_because they don't_understand its_deep impact, and_in result,
politicians get away with keeping_the status quo_achieved through corrupted
undemocratic lawmaking.

~~~
6stringmerc
I completely agree_that_legislators are really_at_the_fault of_this, and I_do
see_it as_a_tug-of-war between two gorillas - Content_Lobbyists_and Tech
Lobbyists - with, well, honest customers_and researchers caught in_the
crossfire.

------
njharman
DRM_is a symptom. The_disease is ridiculously expansive and_one-sided
copyright law.

This is still good fight._Although I'm_not optimistic._If DMCA wasn't laughed
out of the courts when it made Sharpie(tm)_markers illegal "circumvention
devices" I kind of_doubt that logic and_rationality is_in_control at our
legislative_and_judicial systems.

------
6stringmerc
So,_I just kinda-sorta stumbled upon this thought_and would_like your honest
opinions regarding a proposition:

Remove_Section 1201 (DRM Circumvention)_and_Section 512 (Safe Harbor) at the
same_time.

What happens next?

~~~
rincebrain
An amazing cacoph