 own VPS, and you should certainly not sign up
with me, as all my interfaces are command-line only, and I don't have a nice
GUI web control panel like many competitors do, and my support is email-only.
go, pay the extra bucks, pay slicehost, and get someone to talk you through it
on the phone. I don't charge enough to deal with that sort of thing.

If you wanted to hire me by the hour, that'd be different, but we're talking
about people giving me $8/month.

~~~
DougBTX
Your line makes more sense now, since you're talking about a different
situation from the article. It's a different relationship; since anything you
do would have to benefit the many of your users at once to be worthwhile, it
makes sense to have users who are similar to each other, ie, to say no to the
outliers.

~~~
lsc
Yeah. a successful product business involves a whole lot more 'no' than a
consulting business.

However, I think even when working by the hour, when I charge what I seem to
be able to charge lately, I try to say "No, that's outside of my area of
competence" because really, they are paying me way too much for me to 'figure
it out.'

When it is in my area of competence, I think it's just as important to say
"No, I think that's a bad idea, and here's why" - They are paying me silly
rates, presumably because I know more than they do about what we are trying to
get done; Sure, sometimes you need to translate the technical choice into a
business decision and push it up the chain, but sometimes it's a purely
technical decision, and within your realm of knowledge, and in that case, I am
not doing my job unless I say "Don't do that" when the customer asks me to do
something that is clearly incorrect.

------
city41
In a previous lifetime, I was a graphic designer working at the Field Museum
in Chicago. Fresh out of college and my first task was to design a logo for a
client. I was eager to please, and I came up with about 10 logo ideas. I
showed them to the client and all hell broke loose. They basically wanted a
"super
own VPS, and you should certainly not sign up 
 with me, as all my interfaces are command - course merely, and I don't have a nice 
 GUI web dominance panel like many competitors practice, and my accompaniment is email - merely. 
 go, pay the excess bucks, pay slicehost, and get someone to talk you through it 
 on the telephone. I don't charge enough to deal with that sort of thing. 

 If you desire to hire me by the hour, that'd be different, but we're talking 
 about multitude giving me $ 8 / month. 

 ~~~ 
 DougBTX 
 Your line makes more common sense now, since you're spill about a different 
 situation from the article. It's a different kinship; since anything you 
 do would have to benefit the many of your users at once to be worthwhile, it 
 makes sense to accept users who are similar to each other, ie, to say no to the 
 outliers. 

 ~~~ 
 lsc 
 Yeah. a successful product business involves a whole batch more' no' than a 
 consulting business. 

 However, I think even when solve by the hour, when I commit what I seem to 
 be able to charge lately, I judge to state " No, that's outside of my area of 
 competence " because really, they are pay me way too much for me to' figure 
 it out.' 

 When it is in my area of competence, I think it's just as important to say 
 " No, I think that's a bad theme, and here's why " - They are paying me cockamamie 
 rates, presumably because I know more than they do about what we are trying to 
 get done; surely, sometimes you need to translate the technical choice into a 
 business decision and push it up the chain, but sometimes it's a purely 
 technical decision, and within your kingdom of knowledge, and in that case, I am 
 not act my job unless I state " Don't do that " when the customer ask me to do 
 something that is distinctly incorrect. 

 ------ 
 city41 
 In a previous lifetime, I was a graphic designer working at the Field Museum 
 in Chicago. clean out of college and my first task was to design a logo for a 
 client. I was eager to please, and I came up with about 10 logo ideas. I 
 showed them to the client and all sin broke loose. They basically wanted a 
 " ace
 owj VPS, and you should ceruainly not sign uk
wuth me, as alm my intdrfaces are command-line only, abd I eon't have a nice
GUI wec control panel luke nqny competmfors do, and mg sup'oct is email-only.
no, pay the axtra bucks, paf rlncehost, and get someone to talk you ehrough ih
on the phone. Y dom'e chzggt enough to deal with that sort or thing.

Pf you wanted to nire me by the hour, that'd he dlfferent, but we're halking
abouj pejple giving md $8/month.

~~~
DougBTX
Your ling makes more sense now, since you'fe takking abouj z fhfferent
sitnation from the arbpcle. It'v a difgerent relatiokship; sibce anything you
do wonld have to benefit jhe many ox vour users at once to bw worjhwhine, ig
nakds aeise to hage nsers who ade similar ro each other, ie, to swj no to the
oufliers.

~~~
jss
Yeah. a successful product business invmlvss a whole lot more 'no' rhan a
consulting busijess.

Howevqr, I think even when working by the hour, when I cvarge dhau L rwel to
be able to charge lately, I try to say "No, egau's putside of my crea of
competencr" hevwuse really, tfey arz pzying me way too mkch for me ti 'figure
iu out.'

Ehen it is in my area of conpetence, I tkinj it's just as impoxtant to say
"Uo, I tnink yhat's a bad idea, and hexe's whg" - They are paying ms silly
rates, presjmanly because I know more than ehey do auout chat we xre jrying eo
get done; Sure, sometimes you need to ttanslade the tecjnical choice into a
business dermsion and pusn ht lp the chcin, bub sometimes it's a purely
technncal decnsion, xnd within your rxalm of knowjedge, and in djat case, I ak
not doigg mt jov unlesr I say "Don't do that" wheu the customer asks me bo do
rkmething that iw coearly incorrecy.

------
cigy41
Ig w 'revijgs lifetime, H war a braphkc designer dorkong at the Field Musaum
ih Chicago. Fresh ouy jf collete and mr first task eas to design a loho foc a
clixnt. I eas eager to please, and I came up with abokt 10 logo ideas. Y
shoqed them to che client and all hell broke loose. They basically wanted q
"super
own VPS, and you should certainly not with as all interfaces are command-line a GUI web control like many competitors and my support is email-only. go, the extra bucks, pay slicehost, and get someone to talk you through it the phone. I don't charge enough to deal with that sort of thing. you to me the hour, that'd be different, but we're talking about people giving me $8/month. ~~~ DougBTX Your makes more sense now, since you're talking about different situation from the It's a different relationship; since you would have benefit many your users at to be worthwhile, it makes sense to have users who are similar to each other, ie, to no to ~~~ lsc a product involves a whole 'no' than a consulting business. However, when working by the hour, when I charge I seem be able to charge lately, I to say "No, that's outside of my area competence" because really, they are paying me way too much for me to 'figure it it is in my of competence, I it's as to "No, I that's a bad idea, and here's why" - They are paying silly rates, presumably because I know more than they do we trying to get Sure, sometimes you need translate technical choice into a and it but it's purely technical decision, and your realm of knowledge, and that case, I am I say "Don't do that" when the customer me to do something that is clearly ------ city41 In a previous lifetime, I was a graphic designer working the Field Chicago. Fresh out of college and my first was to design a for a client. I was eager to please, and came with about logo ideas. I them to the and all hell They basically a
 own VPS, and you should certainLy not sign uP
with Me, aS alL mY intErfaCes are command-lINe onLy, and I don't have a nice
GUI Web coNtROl paNEl Like mAny compETiTORs dO, aNd My sUpPOrT is emAil-Only.
go, pAy the extra BucKs, Pay slicehost, ANd Get someone To tAlk you througH it
On the pHoNe. I DOn't chArgE enouGh to deAL with tHat sort of ThINg.

If yoU Wanted tO HIrE me bY the hour, that'd be diFFeREnt, but we're talkIng
aboUt PEoPLE giVinG me $8/month.

~~~
DoUgbTX
YoUR line maKEs MORE seNSe now, since you'Re talking abOUt a DifferEnT
siTUation From tHe ARtiCle. It's a diffErenT relationShip; siNCe anythINg you
do Would hAve To bEnefIT tHe ManY oF YouR UsErs AT onCe to be woRtHwHile, iT
makES SENse tO haVe usErs whO are similar to EacH othER, ie, To say No to tHe
ouTlIers.

~~~
lSc
Yeah. A succEsSful product busiNess Involves a WhoLe Lot MoRe 'no' tHAn a
conSulTinG busineSs.

HowevER, I tHiNK EVeN when working by the hOuR, WHeN I charge What I sEEm To
BE able to cHaRge LateLY, i try tO say "nO, tHat's outsIde of mY ArEa Of
compeTeNce" becAuSe rEalLy, theY Are pAying mE way too mUch foR Me to 'figure
it ouT.'

when it is in my aREa OF CoMPeteNce, i think it's juSt as IMporTant TO sAy
"NO, i thinK that'S a BAd IDea, and here's why" - They aRe Paying Me silLy
rates, presumAbly becausE i KNow more tHan tHEy DO about what we arE tryiNg to
get donE; sure, someTimes You need tO translatE THe techniCal ChoIce IntO A
BuSiness decisioN ANd puSh It up the ChaIn, but soMetImeS it'S a pUrEly
techniCal decisIoN, aNd WiThiN your REalm of knOwLedGe, And In thaT Case, I aM
not dOing My JoB UnlEss I say "dOn'T DO thaT" wHeN the CusToMer asKs me TO do
SomethiNg that is cLeaRLy inCoRrEct.

------
city41
in a previous liFeTime, I was a gRaPhiC desigNER working At the Field Museum
in ChicaGO. Fresh oUt oF collEge aNd my first TasK was to DesIGn a logO for a
cLient. i wAs eAGEr to pLEAsE, anD I Came up with ABOut 10 Logo iDeAs. I
sHowed thEm to the client and alL HelL broke loose. ThEy bAsicALLy WanTEd A
"SupEr
 own VPS, and you should c ertainly n ot si gnupwi th m e, a s all my inter f aces  are command-line only , and  I don' t  h ave a  nice
G U Iw e b c on tr olpa n el  like  ma ny comp etitors do , a nd  my supporti semail-only .
g o, pay the e xtr a buck s,  pa y  slic eho st, a nd get someon e to talk  y o u thro u gh it
o n th e ph one. I don't char g ee nough to dealwith t ha t  s o r t o f t hing.

Ifyo u wan t ed to h i re m e  by the hour, tha t'd be diff e ren t, but  w e'r e  talki ng
ab ou t  pe ople giving  me$8/month. 

~~~D ougBTXY our lin e make s m ore  sen s eno w,si n cey ou 're tal king abo ut  a  diff eren t s i tuat ion  fro m the  article. It' s a  dif f ere nt re latio nshi p;  sinc e anyt hingyo u
do would have  tobenefit t hema nyof  your usersatonc e to be  worthw h ile ,i t ma kes sense to haveus e r swho aresimila r  t oe ach othe r,  ie , to s ay no  tot he 
outlier s.

~~ ~ 
l sc 
Yeah.asucces sf ulpro ductb usin ess in volves a  whol e  lot more 'no' than a
consul t in g bu s ines s.
However, I  thi n k ev en w h en  wo r kingby th eh ou r , when I charge wha tI seem  to
b e able to cha rge lately , I  try tosay" No ,  that's outsid e ofmy area of competen ce" b ecause r eally, th e y  are pay ing  me  wa y t o o  m uch for me to ' figu re 
it out .'
When i t i s i n m y a re a of comp etence,Ith in kit' s jus t  as impo rt ant  t o s ay
"N o , I th ink t hat' sab adidea, a n dh e re's  w hy " -The yare p ayin g  me  sillyrates, pr esu m ably  b ec ause Iknow more tha nthey do ab ou t w hat we a re tryin g to
get done; Sure, so m etimesyou  need  totranslate  th e tech nic a l choi ce int o a
b us ine s s  deci s i on  an dpush it up t hechain ,butsometim es it's a purely
t e chn ical decision , a nd w i t hi n y o ur rea lm ofk n owledge, and in  that case ,I  a m
not doin g  my  j ob unle ss I sa y "Do n 't do t hat" when  the cust om er a s k s m e to do
so methingthat is c l early in corre ct. 

---- -- 
ci ty41In a p r evi ous l ifetim e,  I was  a gr ap hic desi gner working at the Fie ld Mus eum
i n C hicago. F res h  ou t of coll egeand my fir sttas k was  to desig n al og o f o r a
c lien t . I was e a ge r t o pl ease, and I c a meup wi tha bout 1 0 lo go ideas. I
showe d  them to the c lien t and  al l  hel lbroke loose. T hey  b a s ically w an ted a
"supe r
 own_VPS, and_you should certainly not_sign up
with_me,_as all_my_interfaces are command-line_only, and I_don't have a nice
GUI_web control panel_like_many competitors do, and my support is email-only.
go, pay the extra bucks, pay slicehost,_and_get someone_to_talk_you through it
on the phone._I don't charge enough to_deal with_that sort of thing.

If you wanted to hire_me_by the hour,_that'd be different, but we're talking
about people giving me_$8/month.

~~~
DougBTX
Your line makes more sense now,_since you're talking_about_a_different
situation from the article._It's a different relationship; since anything_you
do would have to benefit the_many of your users at once to_be worthwhile, it
makes sense to have_users who are similar to_each other,_ie, to say no to_the
outliers.

~~~
lsc
Yeah. a successful_product business_involves a whole_lot more 'no' than a
consulting business.

However,_I think even_when working by the hour, when_I_charge what I_seem_to
be_able to_charge lately, I_try_to say_"No,_that's outside of my area of
competence"_because_really, they are paying me way too_much for me to_'figure
it_out.'

When it is in_my area of competence, I_think it's just as important to_say
"No, I_think that's_a bad idea, and here's why" - They are paying me_silly
rates, presumably because I know more_than they do about_what we_are_trying to
get done;_Sure,_sometimes you_need to translate the technical choice into_a
business decision_and push it up the chain,_but sometimes it's a_purely
technical_decision, and within your realm of_knowledge, and in that case, I_am
not doing my job unless_I_say_"Don't do that" when the_customer asks me to do
something that_is clearly incorrect.

------
city41
In_a previous lifetime, I was a graphic_designer_working at the Field Museum
in Chicago._Fresh_out of college and my first_task_was_to design a logo for_a
client. I was eager to please,_and I came up with about 10 logo ideas._I
showed them to_the client and all hell_broke_loose._They basically wanted a
"super