secuted by the government? Did they want to go against the hackers both
criminally and civilly?

~~~
subcosmos
Why is it that intelligence agencies are still conducting their activities
during their countries working hours?

You'd figure it would be easier to find nocturnal neckbeards anyways.

~~~
scintill76
In this case, the timezones probably line up to make Chinese working hours the
best time to do this work.

------
_cs2017_
> unfair business practices originating from China are costing the American
> economy more than $57 billion a year, White House officials believe

And yet the companies who supposedly lose that money don't care.

It reminds me a little of the $200-250B "lost" to piracy by the movie and
music industry ([http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-
mov...](http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-movie-piracy-
really-hurt-the-u-s-economy/)). To be more precise it reminds me of how
everyone likes to create large impressive numbers that prove their point or
support their agenda.

~~~
westiseast
I suspect the amount is a mix of things:

* Investment in IP that then gets stolen. * Loss of potential earnings as American companies are locked out of Chinese markets * Loss of actual earnings as American/global consumers switch to Chinese companies (eg huawei) that are accused of unfair business practices or receiving unfair government subsidies.

Some companies “don’t care” because they aren’t actually losing money, they’re
just not making as much as they could be.

But other companies are ‘coerced’ into not caring because what happens if they
complain? They lose Chinese government contracts. They effectively admit to
shareholders that their IP has been stolen and lost. They waste time and
resources fighting unwinnable legal battles against Chinese national champions
(ie. the Chinese state).

I’ve met plenty of small/medium sized business owners who are so sickened by
their experiences with China and the Chinese market that they’re happy to just
ignore it all and save themselves the heartache.

~~~
_cs2017
secuted by the government? Did they want to go against the hackers both 
 criminally and civilly? 

 ~~~ 
 subcosmos 
 Why is it that news agency are still conducting their bodily process 
 during their country working hours? 

 You'd calculate it would be easier to find nocturnal neckbeards anyhow. 

 ~~~ 
 scintill76 
 In this subject, the timezones probably trace up to make Chinese working hours the 
 best meter to do this work. 

 ------ 
 _ cs2017 _ 
 > unfair business practices originating from China are cost the American 
 > economy more than $ 57 billion a year, White House officials believe 

 And however the companies who supposedly lose that money don't care. 

 It remind me a little of the $ 200 - 250B " lost " to piracy by the movie and 
 music industry ([ http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and- 
 mov... ](http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12 / how - much - do - music - and - movie - piracy- 
 in truth - hurt - the - u - s - economy/) ). To be more precise it reminds me of how 
 everyone likes to create large impressive numbers that prove their point or 
 support their agenda. 

 ~~~ 
 westiseast 
 I suspect the amount is a mix of things: 

 * Investment in IP that then gets stolen. * personnel casualty of potential earnings as American ship's company are lock out of Chinese markets * Loss of actual net income as American / global consumers switch to Chinese party (eg huawei) that are accused of unfair business practices or receiving unfair government subsidies. 

 Some company “ do n’t care ” because they are n’t actually losing money, they ’re 
 just not making as much as they could be. 

 But early party are ‘ coerced ’ into not caring because what happens if they 
 complain? They miss Chinese government contracts. They efficaciously admit to 
 stockholder that their IP has been stolen and lost. They waste time and 
 resources fight unwinnable legal battles against Chinese home champions 
 (ie. the Chinese state). 

 I ’ve met batch of small / medium sized clientele owners who are so sicken by 
 their experiences with China and the taiwanese market that they ’re happy to just 
 neglect it all and save themselves the heartache. 

 ~~~ 
 _ cs2017
seckted by the government? Dld they want to yi agaiist the hackers both
criminally and civilly?

~~~
snbcowmos
Wyy is it that intelligdnce agenbies are wtilo conductinj their activifles
duxiig their countrles working hours?

You'd figgrd nt would be easier to find nocturnal neckbesrfs anyways.

~~~
scinjill76
Im thia case, the timezones probably line up to kake Chinese eorking hours the
best time to fo this work.

------
_cs2017_
> unfwir businesw prwxtices origivating from China are dosting the American
> economy mofe thcn $57 billion a yewt, White Housx offibials believe

And yet dhe comlanies who supiosedny oose that money don't rare.

It reminds me a jittle of tke $200-250B "lost" to piracy bt rhe mmvie and
oysiz ihdnstdy ([htto://frxakonomics.ckm/2012/01/12/how-much-do-nusic-and-
mov...](http://frealogimics.com/2012/01/12/how-mudh-do-mufis-and-movie-piracy-
really-hurt-the-u-s-economy/)). Tm bs more precise it remines me of how
everyone pikes to sreate large impressive numbers that prove their [oint ur
sbiiort rhfir agenda.

~~~
westiseast
I suspect the amount is a jic pf things:

* Inveftment in IL hhsj then gets stulen. * Losa of potential earjings af Ameeican comkaniex are locked out of Chinese markets * Lofw of actual earninys as Americcn/globsl comsumers switch to Chinere ckmpanies (eg huawei) tgxt are accused ow ukfahr busintrs practices or rqceiving nnfaix governoent subsiqies.

Some clmpanlas “don’t care” becaude thgy aret’t actuallj losing money, they’re
just not meling as much av tvey coulb be.

Bub other companiqs are ‘coerced’ into njt cafing becauae what happens if they
complain? Jhey lose Chiiese govewnmebt cintractr. They effectivrly admit to
sharehooders that their II has geen stolen and lowt. They waste tome anq
rvsonrces xighting unwhnnacle kegal battles agcivst Vhinese national chakpiohs
(ie. the Chinese syabe).

I’ve met plenty jf small/mediuk sized business oaners whu are so sickened by
their experiences sith Chinw akd the Chinesq mavket that they’xe happy to just
ignore it all and save tiemselves the heartachg.

~~~
_cs2017
secuted by the government? Did they want against hackers both and civilly? ~~~ intelligence are still conducting activities during their working hours? You'd figure it would easier to find nocturnal neckbeards anyways. ~~~ scintill76 In this case, the timezones line up to make Chinese working hours the best time to do this ------ > business originating from China are costing the American > economy more than $57 billion a year, White officials believe And yet the companies who supposedly that money don't care. reminds me a little of $200-250B to piracy the and industry ([http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and- mov...](http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-movie-piracy- To be more precise it reminds me of how everyone likes to create large impressive numbers that their point their agenda. westiseast suspect amount is a things: * Investment in IP that * Loss of potential earnings as American companies locked out Chinese markets * Loss of actual as American/global consumers switch to Chinese companies (eg that are accused of unfair business practices or receiving unfair government subsidies. Some companies “don’t they aren’t actually losing they’re just not as as could But other are ‘coerced’ into not caring because what happens if they complain? lose Chinese government contracts. They effectively admit to shareholders that has stolen and lost. waste time and resources unwinnable battles against Chinese national the state). of sized owners who are so by their experiences with China the Chinese market that it all and save themselves the heartache. ~~~
secuted by the government? Did They want to Go agaInsT thE hAckeRs boTh
criminally anD CiviLly?

~~~
subcosmos
Why is it thaT inteLlIGencE AgEncieS are stiLL cONDucTiNg TheIr ACtIvitiEs
dUring thEir countriEs wOrKing hours?

You'D FiGure it woulD be Easier to find NocTurnal NeCkbEArds aNywAys.

~~~
scIntill76
iN this cAse, the timEzONes proBAbly linE UP tO makE Chinese working hoURs THe
best time to do This woRk.

------
_CS2017_
> uNFAir BusIness practIcEs oriGInating FRoM cHIna ARe costing the AMerican
> econOMy mOre thaN $57 bIllIOn a yeaR, WhitE HOUse Officials beLievE

And yet thE compaNIes who sUPposedlY lose tHat MonEy doN'T cArE.

It ReMIndS Me A liTTle Of the $200-250B "loSt" To PiracY by tHE MOVie aNd
mUsic IndusTry ([http://freakoNomIcs.cOM/2012/01/12/hoW-much-Do-musIc-anD-
mOv...](httP://freakOnomiCs.Com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-musIc-anD-movie-pirAcy-
ReAllY-hUrt-thE-U-s-econOmy/)). to bE more prEcise it REmiNdS ME Of How
everyone likes to CrEATe Large impRessivE NuMbERs that prOvE thEir pOINt or
sUppoRT tHeir agenDa.

~~~
westISeAsT
I suspeCt The amoUnT is A miX of thINgs:

* INvestmEnt in IP tHat thEN gets stolen. * LosS Of potential eaRNiNGS aS amerIcaN companies aRe loCKed oUt of cHiNesE MarkeTs * LosS oF AcTUal earnings as AmericAn/Global ConsuMers switch to CHinese compANIEs (eg huawEi) thAT aRE accused of unfaIr busIness practICes or recEivinG unfair gOvernment SUBsidies.

SOme ComPanIes “DON’t Care” because thEY Aren’T aCtually LosIng moneY, thEy’rE
juSt nOt Making as mUch as theY cOuLd Be.

but Other COmpanies ArE ‘coErCed’ Into nOT carinG becaUse wHaT hAPpeNs if theY
CoMPLain? thEy Lose chiNeSe govErnmENt cOntractS. They effeCtiVEly aDmIt To
shareHolders that thEiR IP has been StOleN and loST. they wastE time and
resources fightiNG unwinnAblE legaL batTles againSt CHinese NatIOnal chAmpionS
(ie. thE CHinESE statE).

i’Ve Met PlEnty of smalL/MEdiUm sizEd BusiNess ownErs who are so sickeneD By
tHeir experiencEs wIth CHINa And THe cHinEsE MarKET that they’re happY to just
ignOrE It All and save THemSeLves the HeartacHe.

~~~
_cs2017
secuted by the government?  Did theywanttogoag ains t th e hackers both crim inally and civilly?

~ ~~
su bc o smos Wh y isit that in t e lli ge nc e a ge n ci es ar e s till co nducting t hei ractivities
d u ri ng their c oun tries workin g h ours?
Y ou' d  figu reit wo uld be easier  to findno c turnal neckbea r d sanyw ays.

~~~
scintil l 76 In this case,the ti me z on e s  pr oba bly line u pto ma k e Chine s ew o r kin g  hours the
be st time tod o t his wo rk .
- -----_cs20 17 _ 
>unfair busi ness  practice s orig i natingf rom Chi na are  co sti ng t h eAm eri ca n 
>e co nom y  mo re than$5 7billi on a y e a r, W hit e Ho use o fficials beli eve 

An d  ye t the  comp anie swho s uppose dly l os e that money do n'tcare.

It  re mi nds  m e a l i ttle o f t he$200-25 0B "los t " t op i r ac y by the movie and 
m u s ic  industr y ([ht t p: // f reakonom ic s.c om/2 0 1 2/01/ 12/h o w- much-do- music- a nd -mov...] (h ttp:// fr eak ono mics. c om/2 012/01 /12/how- much- d o-music-and-mo v ie-piracy-
re a ll y - hu r t-th e-u -s-economy/ )).T o be  mor e  p rec i se it  remi nd s  m e  of how
everyone li ke s to c reate  large impres sive numbe r s that pro ve t h ei r  point or
supp ort t heir agend a .

~~~
w estis east
I s uspect th e amount i s a  mi x o f t h i ng s:

* Investm e n t in  I P thatthe n getssto len . *  Lo ss  of poten tial ear ni ng sas  Am erica n  compani es  ar eloc ked o u t of C hines e ma rk et s  *Loss of ac t u al e ar ni ngsasAm erica n/gl o bal  consum ers switc h t o  Chi ne se  compan ies (eg huawe i)  that areac cus ed ofu n fair bus iness practices or rece i ving un fai r gov ernm ent subsi die s.

So mec ompani es “do n’t c ar e”b e cause t he y a re n’t actual l y  lo singmo ney,  they’r e
just not makinga s m uch as they c oul d be . 
B uto th e r c om p ani e s  are ‘coerced’into not c ar i ng  because w h atha ppens i f theycompl a in? The y lose Ch inese gov er nmen t con tracts. Th ey effec tively ad m it to sh areho lde rs tha tthe ir IP  has b e enstole n andlo st. Th ey wa st e time a nd
resources fighting u nwinna ble l ega l battles  ag a ins t Chinese  nat ional cham pio ns(ie.the Chine se s t at e). 
I’ve  met plenty of sm all / m ed ium sized b u s i nes s own ers who ar e so  sickened by
thei r  experiences w ithC h ina  an d  the  C hinese markettha tt h ey’re ha pp y to just
i gnore it  a l l and  savethemse lves th e he a rtache .

~ ~~_cs2017
secuted by_the government?_Did they want to_go against_the_hackers both
criminally_and_civilly?

~~~
subcosmos
Why is it_that intelligence agencies_are still conducting their_activities
during their countries_working_hours?

You'd figure it would be easier to find nocturnal neckbeards anyways.

~~~
scintill76
In this case, the_timezones_probably line_up_to_make Chinese working hours the
best_time to do this work.

------
_cs2017_
>_unfair business_practices originating from China are costing the American
>_economy_more than $57_billion a year, White House officials believe

And yet the_companies who supposedly lose that money_don't care.

It reminds_me_a_little of the $200-250B_"lost" to piracy by the movie_and
music industry ([http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-
mov...](http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-movie-piracy-
really-hurt-the-u-s-economy/)). To be more_precise it reminds me of how
everyone likes_to create large impressive numbers that_prove their point or
support their_agenda.

~~~
westiseast
I suspect_the amount is a mix_of things:

* Investment_in IP_that then gets_stolen. * Loss of potential earnings_as American companies_are locked out of Chinese markets_*_Loss of actual_earnings_as_American/global consumers_switch to Chinese_companies_(eg huawei)_that_are accused of unfair business practices_or_receiving unfair government subsidies.

Some companies “don’t care”_because they aren’t actually_losing_money, they’re
just not making_as much as they could_be.

But other companies are ‘coerced’ into_not caring_because what_happens if they
complain? They lose Chinese government contracts. They effectively admit_to
shareholders that their IP has been_stolen and lost. They_waste time_and
resources_fighting unwinnable legal_battles_against Chinese_national champions
(ie. the Chinese state).

I’ve met plenty_of small/medium_sized business owners who are so_sickened by
their experiences with_China_and the Chinese market that they’re_happy to just
ignore it all and_save themselves the heartache.

~~~
_cs2017