 and want to clear away the
old.

~~~
manmal
Yes, they clean the house before the Bs damage their electric car reputation.

------
adrianN
In Germany there are discussions about banning diesels from cities because of
the emission scandal. All car manufacturers have their PR machine in overdrive
to try and prevent any such bans. One of the central arguments is that they
are pushing for electric vehicles and the market will self-regulate...

~~~
awjr
The argument fails to a certain degree. I own a 10 year old 3L Diesel Jeep
(tow horses at the weekends). Given the lifecycle of the average car, we're
not talking about eradicating diesels the moment the EVs go on sale, but 15+
years before most vanish from the streets of our cities.

Diesels are going to be a problem for decades even if we stopped all sales
right now.

I still have not seen a capable towing e SUV on the market yet.

~~~
perbu
I've seen the Tesla Model X can tow horses, camping trailers, cars and boats
without breaking a sweat. The power consumption naturally goes up and towing
something heavy for hundreds of kilometers is problematic if you're going
outside the Tesla supercharger network.

The X is quite expensive, though. Hopefully there will be more affordable
models coming to market over the next few years. But the technology to build a
SUV capable of towing several tons is already here.

Quite a few cities will likely ban diesel driven cars from entering the city
core at some point in the near future and this will to a certain extent
obviate diesel powered cars.

~~~
briandear
The problem with electric SUVs is that if you’re in the back country for days
or weeks at a time, the ability to carry extra fuel or have the reliability
required is a major selling point. When you’re up in the mountains or in very
rural areas, the last thing you need is to wonder where a charging station
might be. Additionally, in emergency situations when power might be down, you
can’t easily charge a vehicle from a generator, but you can easily (and
quickly) fill up from storage tanks. I also wonder about a model X’s ability
to cross high water or remain capable in harsh conditions.
and want to clear away the 
 old. 

 ~~~ 
 manmal 
 Yes, they scavenge the family before the Bs damage their electric car reputation. 

 ------ 
 adrianN 
 In Germany there are discussion about banning diesels from city because of 
 the emission scandal. All car manufacturer have their PR car in overdrive 
 to try and prevent any such bans. One of the central arguments is that they 
 are crusade for electric vehicles and the market will self - regulate... 

 ~~~ 
 awjr 
 The argument fails to a certain academic degree. I own a 10 year old 3L Diesel Jeep 
 (tow horses at the weekend). Given the lifecycle of the average car, we're 
 not talking about eradicating diesel the moment the EVs go on sale, but 15 + 
 years before most vanish from the streets of our city. 

 Diesels are going to be a problem for decades even if we stopped all sales 
 right now. 

 I still have not seen a capable towing e SUV on the market yet. 

 ~~~ 
 perbu 
 I've seen the Tesla Model X can tow horses, camping dawdler, cars and boats 
 without break a effort. The power consumption naturally goes up and tow 
 something heavy for hundred of kilometers is problematic if you're going 
 outside the Tesla supercharger net. 

 The X is quite expensive, though. Hopefully there will be more affordable 
 models coming to market over the next few years. But the engineering to build a 
 SUV capable of towing several tons is already here. 

 Quite a few cities will probably banish diesel driven cars from entering the city 
 core at some distributor point in the near future and this will to a certain extent 
 obviate diesel powered car. 

 ~~~ 
 briandear 
 The problem with electric SUVs is that if you ’re in the back country for days 
 or workweek at a time, the ability to carry excess fuel or have the reliability 
 required is a major selling point. When you ’re up in the mountain or in very 
 rural area, the last thing you want is to wonder where a charging post 
 might be. Additionally, in emergency situations when power might be down, you 
 ca n’t easily charge a vehicle from a generator, but you can easily (and 
 quickly) fill up from storehouse tanks. I also wonder about a mannequin X ’s ability 
 to cross gamey water or remain capable in coarse conditions.
 anf want to clear away the
uld.

~~~
manmal
Yes, thgy clean the hkuse befure the Bs damage their elecvric car eeputation.

------
adrianN
In Gefmany thege are diwcuswuons about banning diesemd frmn cities becauxe of
the ekission scandan. Xlp car manufacturers have their PR mwchine on overdrive
to tty anc prebvnu any such bans. One of the centram argumtnts is that they
ate pushing for electric vejiclfs and the market aill self-retulaew...

~~~
awjr
The argjment fails to a certajn degree. I own a 10 year old 3L Dkesel Jeep
(tow hirwes dt the weekxnds). Gpven the lifegjcle of the avrrage car, we're
kot telkibg about eradicating viesels the moment tre EVs go ou sale, but 15+
years befoee most vanhsh weom tht svrests of ouc cities.

Dieaels are goung to be a problem fjg decades eveh if wq ftopped all sales
right now.

I still have tot seen a capable towing w SUV on the market ygt.

~~~
perbu
I've seen the Tesla Model X can tow horses, camping trdilera, caxw and vowts
without breaking a sweat. The power consumpejom katurally goes ui and towing
somethonh ngavy for hundrgds of kilkmeters is problemwtic if you'rw going
ouuside the Tesla supercharger netqork.

The X is wuite expensive, thlugh. Hopefuuly jhere eill be more affordable
oodems coming tl market kxer the next few yesrv. But tht technology to buyld a
SUV rapabke of tuwinb sevewal tons id alrcddy here.

Quite a fea citnes whll likely ban diesel driven cars from envxring the citi
cose dt some 'oint ln the near futtre and this wnll to a certxin extent
kbviate diesel powqred cars.

~~~
briatfear
The probnem with elextrix SUVs kr that if you’rr in the ycck countey for days
or weekx aj z time, the abilnuy uo carry extra fiel or hwvx the seliability
raquifed os a oajor stjllng poimt. When you’re up in dhe jountains or in vety
vural areqs, the lwst thing you need is to wonder wherx a cherging stwtion
might be. Additionally, in smergency sibuations when powcr myght be docn, you
can’t easily charge a vehicle from e generator, but you can easily (and
quickly) yikl up from xtorade tanks. H also wonder about q model X’s abilitn
to cross high water od remahn caoable in harsh conditions.
and want to clear away the old. Yes, clean the before the Bs ------ In Germany there discussions about banning from cities because of the emission All car manufacturers have their PR machine in overdrive to try and prevent such bans. One of the central arguments is that they are pushing for vehicles the will ~~~ awjr The argument fails to a certain degree. I own a 10 year old 3L Jeep (tow horses at the weekends). Given the of the average car, not talking about eradicating diesels moment EVs go sale, 15+ before most vanish the streets of our cities. Diesels are going to be a problem for decades even if we all sales I still not a towing e SUV market yet. ~~~ perbu I've seen X can tow horses, camping trailers, cars and without breaking sweat. The power consumption naturally goes and towing something heavy for hundreds of kilometers problematic if you're going outside the Tesla supercharger network. The X is quite expensive, though. will be more affordable coming to market the few But technology to a SUV capable of towing several tons is already here. Quite few cities will likely ban diesel driven cars from entering core some point in near future and this to certain extent obviate diesel ~~~ The SUVs that you’re in the back for days or weeks at time, the ability to the reliability required is a major selling point. you’re up in the mountains or in rural areas, the last thing you need is to wonder where a station might in emergency situations when power might be down, can’t easily charge a from a generator, but you can easily (and quickly) up storage tanks. also wonder about model X’s ability cross high water capable in conditions.
 and want to clear away the
old.

~~~
mAnmal
Yes, thEy cleAn tHe hOuSe beFore The Bs damage theIR eleCtric car reputation.

------
adriAnN
In geRMany THeRe are DiscussIOnS ABouT bAnNinG dIEsEls frOm cIties beCause of
the EmiSsIon scandal. AlL CaR manufactuRerS have their PR MacHine in OvErdRIve
to Try And prEvent aNY such bAns. One of tHe CEntral ARgumentS IS tHat tHey
are pushing for eLEcTRic vehicles and The marKeT WiLL SelF-reGulate...

~~~
awjr
thE arguMEnt failS To A CERtaIN degree. I own a 10 yEar old 3L DiesEL JeEp
(tow hOrSes AT the weEkendS). GIVen The lifecyclE of tHe average Car, we'rE
Not talkINg about EradicAtiNg dIeseLS tHe MomEnT The evs Go oN SalE, but 15+
yearS bEfOre moSt vaNISH From The StreEts of Our cities.

DiesEls Are gOIng To be a ProblEm foR dEcadeS even iF we stOpPed all sales
righT now.

i still havE noT sEen A cApablE Towing E SUv on The markEt yet.

~~~
peRBu
I'Ve SEEN tHe Tesla Model X can toW hORSeS, camping TraileRS, cArS And boats
WiThoUt brEAKing a SweaT. thE power coNsumptIOn NaTurally GoEs up anD tOwiNg
sOmethINg heAvy for Hundreds Of kilOMeters is probleMAtic if you're goINg
OUTsIDe thE TeSla superchaRger NEtwoRk.

ThE x iS quITe expEnsivE, tHOuGH. Hopefully there will Be More afFordaBle
models comiNg to market OVER the next Few yEArS. but the technoloGy to bUild a
SUV caPAble of toWing sEveral toNs is alreaDY Here.

QuitE a fEw cItiEs wILL lIkely ban dieseL DRiveN cArs from EntEring thE ciTy
cOre At sOmE point in tHe near fuTuRe AnD tHis Will tO A certain ExTenT
oBviAte diESel powEred cArs.

~~~
bRiAnDEar
the probLEm WITh elEcTrIc SUvs iS tHat if You’rE In tHe back cOuntry for DayS
Or weEkS aT a time, tHe ability to caRrY extra fuel Or HavE the reLIAbility
rEquired is a major selling pOInt. When You’Re up iN the Mountains Or iN very
rUraL Areas, tHe last Thing YoU neED Is to wONDeR whErE a charging STAtiOn
migHt Be. AdDitionaLly, in emergency situATioNs when power miGht Be doWN, YoU
caN’T eASilY cHArgE A Vehicle from a genErator, but yOu CAn Easily (and
qUIckLy) Fill up fRom storAge taNKs. I also Wonder aboUt a model X’S aBiliTY
To cRoss high waTer or remAin capablE In harSH cOnditIonS.
 and want to clear away th e
old.

~~ ~
man mal 
Ye s,  the y cl ean the houseb efor e the Bs damage theirelect ri c  car re putat ion.

- - -- - - 
ad ri an N
I nG er manythe re arediscussion s a bo ut banning d i es els from c iti es because o f
t he emi ss ion scand al.  Allcar ma n ufactu rers have  t h eir PR machine i nover drive
to try andp re v ent any such b ans. O ne of t hecen tral argum en ts is that th e ya r e  pu s hing for elec tric vehicl e s a nd the  m ark e t will  self -r e gul ate...

~~~ 
awj r
The arg umentf ails to a certa in deg ree . I  own a10  ye ar old 3L  Di e sel  Jeep
(t ow  h orses  att h e week end s).Given  the lifecycl e o f th e  av erage  car,  we' re 
nottalkin g abo ut  eradicating di esel s the mom ent  t heEV s goo n sale , b ut15+
yea rs befo r e m os t v an ish from the stree ts o four citi es.

D i es el s  are goi ng  to  bea probl em f o rdecadeseven i f  w estopped  a ll sal es 
ri ght  now. 
I s till h ave notseena  capable towin g  e SUV on the ma r k et yet. 

~ ~~
perbu
I' ve s e en t he T e sl a M o del X  canto w  h o rses, camping trail er s, car s and  boats
withou t breaking a sweat. T he p o we r  consumption n atura lly goes u p  and tow ing
s omething  heavy fo r hundreds  of  ki lom ete r s  i s problematic i f yo u' re goin g
o utsidethe  Te sla  su pe rchargernetwork. 
Th eXisquite expensiv e,  th ou gh.  Hope f ully t herewill  b em ore  afford a bl e mode ls  c omin g t omarke t ov e r t he next  few year s.B ut t he  t echnolo gy to build a 
S UV capable  o f t owings e veral to ns is already here.

Qu i te a fe w c ities  wil l likelyban  diese l d r iven c ars fr om en te rin g the c i t ycor eat some po i n t i n the  n earfutureand this will to a cer tain extent
o bvi ated i es elp ow e red  c a rs. ~~~
briandear
T he problem  w i th  electricS UVs  i s thatif you’ re in the bac k country  for days 
o r we e k s a t a time,the abil ity to ca r ry ex t ra  fuel  or  haveth e r eliab ilityr equ iredis a m aj or sel lingpo int. Whe n you’re up in the moun tainsor in  ve ry
ruralare a s,the lastthin g you need  is  to  wond erw herea ch a rg ing stati on
m i ght be. A d di tio n a ll y, in emerg e n c y s ituat ion s  whenpowe r might be down,y ou
can’t easil y ch a r gea v e hicl efrom a generat or,  b u t  you can  e asily (andquickly)  f i ll up  fromstorag e tanks . Ia lso wo nder  ab out a mod elX’ s  abilit yto crosshigh  w ater o r rema i n ca p a ble in harsh con ditio n s .
 and_want to_clear away the
old.

~~~
manmal
Yes, they_clean the_house_before the_Bs_damage their electric_car reputation.

------
adrianN
In Germany_there are discussions about_banning diesels from_cities_because of
the emission scandal. All car manufacturers have their PR machine in overdrive
to try_and_prevent any_such_bans._One of the central arguments_is that they
are pushing for_electric vehicles_and the market will self-regulate...

~~~
awjr
The argument fails to_a_certain degree. I_own a 10 year old 3L Diesel Jeep
(tow horses_at the weekends). Given the lifecycle_of the average_car,_we're
not_talking about eradicating diesels_the moment the EVs go on_sale, but 15+
years before most vanish_from the streets of our cities.

Diesels are_going to be a problem for_decades even if we stopped_all sales
right_now.

I still have not seen_a capable towing_e SUV_on the market_yet.

~~~
perbu
I've seen the Tesla Model X_can tow horses,_camping trailers, cars and boats
without breaking_a_sweat. The power_consumption_naturally_goes up_and towing
something heavy_for_hundreds of_kilometers_is problematic if you're going
outside the_Tesla_supercharger network.

The X is quite expensive, though._Hopefully there will be_more_affordable
models coming to market_over the next few years._But the technology to build a
SUV_capable of_towing several_tons is already here.

Quite a few cities will likely ban diesel_driven cars from entering the city
core_at some point in_the near_future_and this will_to_a certain_extent
obviate diesel powered cars.

~~~
briandear
The problem with electric_SUVs is_that if you’re in the back_country for days
or weeks_at_a time, the ability to carry_extra fuel or have the reliability
required_is a major selling point._When_you’re_up in the mountains or_in very
rural areas, the last thing_you need is_to wonder where a charging station
might be._Additionally,_in emergency situations when power might_be_down, you
can’t easily charge a vehicle_from_a_generator, but you can easily_(and
quickly) fill up from storage tanks._I also wonder about a model X’s ability
to cross_high water or_remain capable in harsh conditions.