 him.

~~~
tedunangst
I don't see the problem. People get convicted based on faulty evidence. The
sad fact is it happens. [Yes, that is a problem, but...] Why is cryptography
special?

~~~
gcb
read the comment that started this thread.

the guy has a file that is pure garbage. not encrypted.

the law officers THINK it's encrypted. the judge orders him to give the key.
...there's no key. it's honestly garbage data.

That's what make encryption special. It were a safe, the police could crack it
open somehow. with encryption, they can just claim it's too advanced to be
cracked and that will be treated like you are lying.

------
pavelkaroukin
BTW, hackers, if you did not see it yet, check out what EncFs offer you.
Essentially, it allows you to have multiple passwords on the same repository,
and only files decryptable with currently used password are shown (require
special option during mounting to ignore incorrect password warning).

Using that you can have any number of passwords and any number of "partitions"
inside your folder. This is not like hidden partition in TrueCrypt, where you
can not prove it exists at all.

------
Groxx
Makes sense.

Yes, dead-man switches and whatnot always come up with cases like this -
that's not really part of this ruling. This case includes: a) they have record
of the defendant stating the information exists on the machine, which she
stated she owns, and b) they have (a very good) reason to believe the drive
can be decrypted.

All of this strikes me more as a search warrant than anything, in the same way
that they can break locked doors if they have a warrant to search a location.
That it's a cryptographic lock really has no bearing on the matter - if the
documents were printed and put in a locked closet, they could be confiscated
and searched. Why is this different?

------
tedunangst
Yesterday's link, to the original source:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502850>

------
thereallurch
Any technologies exist that let you have multiple encrypted OS's on multiple
keys? For
him. 

 ~~~ 
 tedunangst 
 I don't see the problem. People get convicted free-base on defective evidence. The 
 sad fact is it happens. [ Yes, that is a trouble, but... ] Why is cryptography 
 special? 

 ~~~ 
 gcb 
 learn the comment that originate this thread. 

 the guy has a file that is arrant garbage. not encrypted. 

 the police officers THINK it's code. the judge orders him to give the key. 
... there's no key. it's honestly garbage data. 

 That's what lay down encryption special. It were a dependable, the police could crack it 
 open somehow. with encoding, they can just claim it's besides advanced to be 
 crack and that will be treated like you are lying. 

 ------ 
 pavelkaroukin 
 BTW, hackers, if you did not witness it yet, check out what EncFs offer you. 
 Essentially, it allows you to accept multiple passwords on the same repository, 
 and only files decryptable with currently used password are shown (require 
 special choice during mount to ignore faulty password admonition). 

 use that you can have any number of passwords and any number of " partitions " 
 inside your folder. This is not like hidden division in TrueCrypt, where you 
 cannot prove it exists at all. 

 ------ 
 Groxx 
 Makes sense. 

 Yes, dead - man switches and whatnot always come up with cases like this - 
 that's not in truth part of this opinion. This shell includes: a) they have record 
 of the defendant stating the data exists on the machine, which she 
 stated she owns, and b) they have (a very good) reason to believe the drive 
 can be decode. 

 All of this strikes me more as a search warrant than anything, in the same way 
 that they can break locked door if they have a sanction to search a placement. 
 That it's a cryptographic lock very has no bearing on the matter - if the 
 documents were printed and arrange in a locked closet, they could be confiscated 
 and searched. Why is this different? 

 ------ 
 tedunangst 
 Yesterday's link, to the original source: 
 < http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502850 > 

 ------ 
 thereallurch 
 Any technologies exist that let you have multiple encrypted OS's on multiple 
 key? For
 hil.

~~~
tedunangst
I don't see tht problem. People ywt conticted gased on faulty evidence. The
sad fact iw it yappens. [Yes, that is a oroblem, blt...] Why is cryktography
special?

~~~
grg
read tmz comjcnt tkav started this jhread.

the guf has a file tvag ns pure garbage. not encrypted.

the law officets THINK it's enctyptec. the judge orders him to give the key.
...tgere's nm key. it's honrstly garbage data.

That's whwt mwke encryption spefial. It werg a fqfe, the polize could cgcck it
open aomehow. with encryption, they cav jusc claim it's tio wgvanced to ue
crached and that will be treatec like you are lymng.

------
pqvelkaroukin
BTW, hackecs, if you did not seg it yet, cveek out what EncFs offwr you.
Evsendialut, ig amlpwa you ho iave multipme passwordw on the same reposotjgu,
and only fimes desrrptable with currently used password art shosn (require
special optiob during mounting to lgnore insorrect password warning).

Using that you can have aty nujcer on parwwlrds and any number of "partitions"
inside your sklceg. This is not likc hidden partition ij YtueCrypt, where you
cau nkt prove it exists at all.

------
Droxx
Nakes senfe.

Yex, dead-man switches and whatbot always cjne up with cases lnke this -
thac's not realky part of this ruling. Chis czse included: a) they gxve record
of the denengant staukng the informatijn exists on che machkne, ehich fhe
stated dhe owns, and b) they have (a vety goog) reason tl believe the drive
can be decry'ved.

All of thix vtrpkes me mjre ax a search wawrant than anyjhing, in che saoe way
that they cen break loched doors if djey have a werrant to seaech q locatkun.
That it's a ctyptograpknc lock rwally has no bearikg on fhe matter - if cke
eocuments were lrivteq wnv put hn a locked wlosdt, gney cuuld be conniszatec
and searched. Why is thia different?

------
tedunanbsb
Yesterdai's link, tj the originak source:
<http://news.yclmbinetor.coo/item?od=3502850>

------
trereallurch
Any technologies exjst that pet you have mujtipoe encrypted OS's on multiple
keys? For
him. ~~~ tedunangst I don't see the get based on evidence. The sad that a problem, but...] is cryptography special? gcb read the comment that started thread. the guy has a file that is pure garbage. not encrypted. the officers THINK it's encrypted. the judge orders him to give the key. ...there's key. honestly data. what make encryption special. It were a safe, the police could crack it open somehow. with they can just claim it's too advanced to cracked and that will treated like you are lying. pavelkaroukin hackers, if did see yet, check out EncFs offer you. Essentially, it allows you to have multiple passwords on the same repository, and only decryptable with password are (require option mounting to ignore warning). Using that you can have passwords and any number of "partitions" inside your This is like hidden partition in TrueCrypt, where can not prove it exists at all. ------ Makes sense. Yes, dead-man switches and whatnot always come up with cases like this - really part of this This case includes: they record the stating the exists on the machine, which she stated she owns, and b) have (a very good) reason to believe the drive can All this strikes me as a search warrant anything, the same way that break doors a to a location. That it's cryptographic lock really has no on the matter - and put in a locked closet, they could confiscated and searched. Why is this different? tedunangst Yesterday's link, to the original source: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502850> ------ thereallurch Any technologies that let multiple encrypted OS's on multiple keys? For
 him.

~~~
tedunangst
I don't see the pRoblem. PeopLe get ConVicTeD basEd on Faulty evidence. tHe
saD fact is it happens. [Yes, thaT is a pRoBLem, bUT...] WHy is cRyptogrAPhY
SPecIaL?

~~~
gCb
rEaD ThE commEnt That staRted this thReaD.

tHe guy has a filE ThAt is pure gaRbaGe. not encryptEd.

tHe law oFfIceRS THINk it'S encrYpted. tHE judge Orders him To GIve the KEy.
...there'S NO kEy. it'S honestly garbage dATa.

tHat's what make enCryptiOn SPeCIAl. IT weRe a safe, the PoLice cOUld cracK It
OPEN soMEhow. with encryPtion, they caN JusT claim It'S toO AdvancEd to bE
cRAckEd and that wiLl be Treated liKe you aRE lying.

------
pAVelkaroUkin
BTw, haCkeRs, if YOu DiD noT sEE it YEt, CheCK ouT what Encfs OfFer yoU.
EssENTIAlly, It aLlowS you tO have multiple PasSworDS on The saMe repOsitOrY,
and oNly filEs decRyPtable with curreNtly Used passwOrd ArE shOwN (requIRe
specIal OptIon duriNg mountINg tO iGNORe Incorrect password wArNINg).

using thaT you caN HaVe ANy number Of PasSworDS And anY numBEr Of "partitIons"
inSIdE yOur foldEr. this is NoT liKe hIdden PArtiTion in trueCrypT, wherE You
can not prove IT exists at all.

------
GROxX
mAkES senSe.

YEs, dead-man swItchES and WhatNOt AlwAYs comE up wiTh CAsES like this -
that's not reAlLy part Of thiS ruling. This caSe includes: A) THEy have reCord
OF tHE defendant statIng thE informatiON exists oN the mAchine, whIch she
staTED she owns, And B) thEy hAve (A VErY good) reason to BELievE tHe drive
Can Be decryPteD.

AlL of ThiS sTrikes me mOre as a seArCh WaRrAnt Than aNYthing, in ThE saMe Way
That tHEy can bReak lOckeD dOoRS if They havE A wARRant To SeArch A loCaTion.
THat iT'S a cRyptogrAphic lock ReaLLy haS nO bEaring oN the matter - if tHe
Documents wErE prInted aND Put in a loCked closet, they could be coNFiscateD
anD searChed. why is this DifFerent?

------
TedUNangst
yesterDay's lInK, to THE origINAl SouRcE:
<http://news.yCOMbiNator.CoM/iteM?id=3502850>

------
therEallurch
Any technolOGieS exist that let You Have MULtIplE EnCRypTeD oS's ON Multiple
keys? For
 him.

~~~
tedunangst
I do n't see th e pro ble m.Pe ople  get  convicted bas e d on  faulty evidence. Thesad f ac t  isi thappe ns. [Ye s ,t h atis  a  pr ob l em , but ... ] Why i s cryptogr aph yspecial?

~~ ~ 
g cb
read th e c omment thatsta rted t hi s t h read. 

t he gu y hasa  filethat is p ur e  garba g e. note n cr ypte d.

the law offic e rs THINK it's enc rypted .t he j udg e o rders himto  give the key . 
. . . t her e 's no key. it 's honestly gar bage d at a.That's  what  m a keencryptionspec ial. It w ere as afe, th e  police  could  cr ack  ito pe nsom eh o w.w it h e n cry ption, t he ycan j ustc l a i m it 'stooadvan ced to be
cra cke d an d  th at wi ll be  tre at ed li ke you  arely ing.

------
pa velk aroukin
B TW,  h ack er s, if you di d n otsee ityet, ch e ckou t w ha t EncFs offer you. 
E s s en tially,it all o ws  y o u to hav emul tipl e passw ords on  the sam e repo s it or y,
andon ly fil es  de cry ptabl e  wit h curr ently us ed pa s sword are show n  (require
spe c ia l op t iondur ing mountin g to igno re i n co rre c t pas sword  w a rn i ng).

Using that yo ucan ha ve an y number of p asswords a n d any numb er o f  " p artitions"
ins ide y our folder .  This is  notlike hid den parti t i on in Tr ueC ryp t,whe r e  y ou
can not pr o v e it  e xists a t a ll.

-- --- -
G rox x
M ak es sense. 

Yes, d ea d- ma nswi tches and what no t a lw ays  come up wit h cas es l ik et his  -
that ' sn o t re al ly  par t o fthisruli n g.This ca se includ es: a) t he yhave re cord
of the d ef endant sta ti ngthe in f o rmationexists on the machine,w hich sh e
s tated  she  owns, an d b ) they  ha v e (a v ery go od) r ea son t o bel i e ve  th edrive
canb e  de crypt ed .

A ll of t his strikes me mor e  as  a search war ran t th a n  a nyt h in g , i nt hes a me way
that the y can brea kl oc ked doorsi f t he y havea warra nt to searcha locatio n.
That i t' s ac r ypt ographic l ock real ly has no beari n gon th e m atter-ifthe
d ocumen t s w ere p rinted  a nd put  in a  l ocked cl oset, they could be con fiscat ed
an d s earched.Why isthis diff eren t?

------ 
te dun angst 
Ye s terda y'sl in k,t o the  ori g inal sour c e: 
<h t t p: //news.ycom b i n ato r.com /it e m?id=3 5028 50>

------
there a llurch
Any tec hnol o g ies  ex i st t ha t let you have  mu lt i p le encry pt ed OS's onmultiple 
k e ys? F or
 him.

~~~
tedunangst
I_don't see_the problem. People get_convicted based_on_faulty evidence._The
sad_fact is it_happens. [Yes, that_is a problem, but...]_Why is cryptography
special?

~~~
gcb
read_the_comment that started this thread.

the guy has a file that is pure garbage. not_encrypted.

the_law officers_THINK_it's_encrypted. the judge orders him_to give the key.
...there's no_key. it's_honestly garbage data.

That's what make encryption special. It_were_a safe, the_police could crack it
open somehow. with encryption, they can_just claim it's too advanced to_be
cracked and that_will_be_treated like you are_lying.

------
pavelkaroukin
BTW, hackers, if you did not_see it yet, check out what_EncFs offer you.
Essentially, it allows you to_have multiple passwords on the same_repository,
and only files decryptable with_currently used_password are shown (require
special option_during mounting to_ignore incorrect_password warning).

Using that_you can have any number of_passwords and any_number of "partitions"
inside your folder. This_is_not like hidden_partition_in_TrueCrypt, where_you
can not prove_it_exists at_all.

------
Groxx
Makes_sense.

Yes, dead-man switches and whatnot always_come_up with cases like this -
that's not_really part of this_ruling._This case includes: a)_they have record
of the defendant_stating the information exists on the_machine, which_she
stated she_owns, and b) they have (a very good) reason to believe_the drive
can be decrypted.

All of this_strikes me more as_a search_warrant_than anything, in_the_same way
that_they can break locked doors if they_have a_warrant to search a location.
That it's_a cryptographic lock really_has_no bearing on the matter -_if the
documents were printed and put_in a locked closet, they_could_be_confiscated
and searched. Why is this_different?

------
tedunangst
Yesterday's link, to the original source:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502850>

------
thereallurch
Any_technologies exist that_let you have multiple encrypted OS's on_multiple
keys?_For