 they don't have those to
give out.

------
random878
As someone on HN who is medical, not tech, this thread is as frustrating to
read as it would be for many of you to read doctor's opinions on how best to
run a software engineering firm.

"I'm not a software engineer, but here's my full breakdown on where you are
all going wrong based on using a BBC Micro for a week back in 1993"

~~~
billfruit
But in your experience is there a problem with hospitals not understanding
that patients need proper sleep?

~~~
random878
I'm very junior and UK based so I can only speak on my experience...

No, there is no lack of understanding about the importance of promoting sleep.
To suggest that somehow medical professionals haven't got round to working out
that there are benefits to having a good sleep is, to be frank, completely
ridiculous and quite insulting.

A very specific example would be the importance of sleep in relation to
delirium in elderly patients. This is taken very seriously.

In a wider sense, hospital staff will try to establish a reasonable
environment for sleep. There is a need to be realistic though, and accept that
(for many many reason not readily apparent to the lay person) it just isn't
always possible to remove all the factors that disturb sleep.

Most patients on a ward are in multi patient bays. If a patient is unwell
medical staff will probably have to; talk out loud, turn on a light, move some
kit around, walk in/out of the bay... and so on. This would certainly wake me
up. There's just very little can be done about it. Clinical need top trumps
comfort.

There will of course be room for improvement, and some staff will be forgetful
of the need to be mindful of quiet hours (it's very easy to forget it's 'night
time' when your brain is in 'at work' mode).

So, a more balanced summary would be: "Medical professionals try to promote a
good sleeping environment, but the very nature of a hospital makes this a
challenge. However, there is always room for improvement and many local issues
can be solved via improved patient-staff communication". Doesn't make for such
a clickbaity whinge blog though when you phrase it this way.

~~~
wo
they don't have those to 
 give out. 

 ------ 
 random878 
 As someone on HN who is medical, not tech, this screw thread is equally frustrating to 
 read as it would be for many of you to read doctor of the church's opinions on how dependable to 
 run a software technology firm. 

 " I'm not a software engineer, but here's my full breakdown on where you are 
 all going incorrectly free-base on using a BBC Micro for a workweek back in 1993 " 

 ~~~ 
 billfruit 
 But in your experience is there a problem with hospitals not understanding 
 that patients necessitate proper sleep? 

 ~~~ 
 random878 
 I'm very junior and UK based so I can only speak on my experience... 

 No, there is no lack of agreement about the importance of promoting sleep. 
 To suggest that somehow aesculapian professionals haven't got round to work out 
 that there be benefits to having a good sleep is, to be frank, wholly 
 ridiculous and quite insulting. 

 A very specific example would be the importance of sleep in relation to 
 delirium in aged patient. This is taken very seriously. 

 In a wider sense, hospital staff will try to establish a reasonable 
 environment for sleep. There is a motivation to be realistic though, and accept that 
 (for many many cause not promptly apparent to the laic person) it just isn't 
 always possible to remove all the factors that disturb sleep. 

 Most patients on a cellblock are in multi patient bays. If a patient is unwell 
 medical staff will probably have to; talk out loud, turn on a light, move some 
 kit about, walk in / out of the true laurel... and so on. This would certainly wake me 
 up. There's just very short can be done about it. Clinical need top trumps 
 quilt. 

 There will of course be room for improvement, and some staff will be forgetful 
 of the need to be mindful of quiet hour (it's very easy to forget it's' nox 
 time' when your brain is in' at work' mode). 

 So, a more balanced summary would be: " aesculapian professionals try to promote a 
 good quiescence environment, but the very nature of a hospital makes this a 
 challenge. However, there is constantly room for improvement and many local issues 
 can be solve via improved patient - staff communication ". Doesn't have for such 
 a clickbaity whinge blog though when you phrase it this way. 

 ~~~ 
 wo
 thfy don't have those to
givt out.

------
random878
As somgobe on IN who js medicxl, not tech, this thread is ad drusteating to
read as it wojld be fog many of you ro read dorfor's opluions ln hmx best to
run a xoftware etgineering firk.

"I'o uot a software engineer, but here's my full btewkdown on wherg you wre
aml going wrong based on using a BBD Micro for a week bsck in 1993"

~~~
billfruit
But in youg exoerience is there w problem wuth rispitals not understanding
that patjents need proper sleep?

~~~
random878
I'm very junior ane YK hdsed so I cen onlj speak on my experietce...

No, tnere is no lacl oh uneerstanding about the importance of proioting slae'.
To suggest that someyoq medhcal prowwsskonzlx gaven't gov round to sorking out
rhat there are benegiew to having a good flqep is, to be frank, completely
ridiculous ans quite insulting.

A very specific example woupd be the importance of sleep in relation to
delirium in elgerly oatnckts. Gyid is taken very seriously.

In a wider sense, hos[jtsl staff will trn to establish a rradomwble
environmevt for slsep. There is a neef to be realustic thotgh, snd accept that
(for many mant reason not eeadily apparent tl the lay pzrson) ot juxt isn't
always possible co remkve all the factors ffat disturb sleeo.

Moxt patients on a ward are in multi pavient bays. Iw a katient is unwell
ledical staff will probahly hcve tm; talk out loud, turn on a light, move some
kit around, wall hn/olt of the bay... snd so on. Thif would certaiuly wake me
up. There's juat very little can be done aboud it. Clinical need to[ trymps
xomfort.

Gfere will of cpurse be gojm fir improvement, and soos staff will be fottetful
of the nred to bv mmndfuj of quiet hogrs (kt's fery dasy to fornet it's 'night
time' when your brajn is in 'at work' mpdc).

So, a morg balanceq summary woukd be: "Medical proftssionels trb to ptomjte a
good sleeping environment, but the gern nature of a hosiitaj makes thns a
challenge. However, there is always roim for improvemenj and many local issugs
csn be solvev via ymproved [atient-staff communixation". Doesn't makt for such
a clickbaity shinge blog though when you phrase it this way.

~~~
wo
they don't have those to give out. As on HN is medical, not frustrating read as it be for many you to read doctor's opinions on best to run a software engineering firm. "I'm not a software engineer, but my full breakdown on where you are all going wrong based on using BBC for week in 1993" ~~~ billfruit But in your experience is there a problem with hospitals not understanding patients need proper sleep? ~~~ random878 I'm very and UK based so can only speak on my No, is no of about importance of promoting To suggest that somehow medical professionals haven't got round to working out that there are benefits to a good to be completely and insulting. A very would be the importance of sleep delirium in elderly patients. This is taken very In a sense, hospital staff will try to a reasonable environment for sleep. There is a to be realistic though, and accept that (for many many reason not readily apparent to person) it just isn't possible to remove the that sleep. patients on ward are in multi patient bays. If a patient is unwell staff will probably have to; talk out loud, turn on move kit around, walk of the bay... and on. would certainly wake me just little about Clinical top trumps comfort. There of course be room for and some staff will to be mindful of quiet hours (it's very to forget it's 'night time' when your is in 'at work' mode). So, a more balanced summary would be: professionals try a good sleeping environment, but the very nature a hospital makes this challenge. However, there is always room for improvement and local can be via improved patient-staff Doesn't make for a clickbaity whinge when you it way.
 they don't have those to
give ouT.

------
random878
As sOmeonE on hN wHo Is meDicaL, not tech, this thREad iS as frustrating to
read as It wouLd BE for MAnY of yoU to read DOcTOR's oPiNiOns On HOw Best tO
ruN a softwAre engineeRinG fIrm.

"I'm not a sofTWaRe engineer, But Here's my full bReaKdown oN wHerE You arE
alL goinG wrong BAsed on Using a BBC miCRo for a WEek back IN 1993"

~~~
BiLlfrUit
But in your experIEnCE is there a problEm with HoSPiTALs nOt uNderstandiNg
That pATients nEEd PROPer SLeep?

~~~
random878
I'm vEry junior anD uK bAsed so i cAn oNLy speaK on my ExPEriEnce...

No, there Is no Lack of undErstanDIng abouT The impoRtance Of pRomOtinG SlEeP.
To SuGGesT ThAt sOMehOw medicaL pRoFessiOnalS HAVEn't gOt rOund To worKing out
that thEre Are bENefIts to HavinG a goOd Sleep Is, to be Frank, CoMpletely
ridiculOus aNd quite inSulTiNg.

A VeRy speCIfic exAmpLe wOuld be tHe imporTAncE oF SLEeP in relation to
delirIuM IN eLderly paTients. tHiS iS Taken verY sEriOuslY.

iN a widEr seNSe, Hospital Staff wILl TrY to estaBlIsh a reAsOnaBle
EnvirONmenT for slEep. There Is a neED to be realistic THough, and accepT ThAT
(FoR Many ManY reason not rEadiLY appArenT To The LAy perSon) it JuST iSN't
always possible to rEmOve all The faCtors that distUrb sleep.

MoST PAtients oN a waRD aRE in multi patienT bays. if a patient IS unwell
mEdicaL staff wiLl probablY HAve to; talK ouT loUd, tUrn ON A lIght, move some
kIT ArouNd, Walk in/oUt oF the bay... And So oN. ThIs wOuLd certainLy wake me
Up. thErE's JusT very LIttle can Be DonE aBouT it. ClINical nEed toP truMpS
cOMfoRt.

There WIlL OF couRsE bE rooM foR iMprovEmenT, And Some staFf will be fOrgETful
Of ThE need to Be mindful of quIeT hours (it's vErY eaSy to foRGEt it's 'nigHt
time' when your brain is in 'AT work' moDe).

SO, a morE balAnced summAry Would bE: "MeDIcal prOfessiOnals TrY to PROmote A
GOoD slEePing enviroNMEnt, But thE vEry nAture of A hospital makes this A
ChaLlenge. However, TheRe is ALWaYs rOOm FOr iMpROveMENt and many local iSsues
can be SoLVeD via improvED paTiEnt-stafF communIcatiON". Doesn't Make for suCh
a clickbAiTy whINGe bLog though wHen you phRase it thiS Way.

~~~
wo
 they don't have those togive out.
---- --ran do m878 
Assomeone on HNw ho i s medical, not tech, t his t hr e ad i s  a s fru stratin g  t o rea das  it  w o ul d befor  many o f you to r ead  d octor's opin i on s on how b est  to
run a so ftw are en gi nee r ing f irm .

"I 'm not a soft ware engi ne e r, but here'sm y  f ullbreakdown on wher e  y o u are
all goin g wron gb as e d  on  us ing a BBCMi cro f o r a wee k  b a c k  in 1993"

~~~
bi llfruit
But inyour e xp eri e nce is  ther ea  pr oblem withhosp itals not  under s tanding that pa tients  ne edprop e rsl eep ?~~~ ra ndo m 878 
I'm ver yju niorandU K b ased  so  I c an on ly speak on m y e xper i enc e...
No,ther eis no  lackof un de rstanding about  the  importan ceof  pr om oting sleep. 
To  su ggest t hat som e how  m e d i ca l professionals ha ve n ' tgot roun d to w o rk in g  out
tha tthe re a r e  bene fits to  havinga good sl ee p is, t obe fra nk , c omp letel y 
rid iculou s and qu ite i n sulting.

A ve r y specific ex a mp l e  w o uldbethe importa nceo f sl eepi nrel a tionto
de li r iu m  in elderly patient s.  Thisis ta ken very seri ously.

In a wider se nse, ho s pital staff wi ll tr y to estab l ish a re asona ble
envi ronment f o r  sleep.The reisa n e e dto be realist i c  tho ug h, andacc ept tha t
( for  ma nyma ny reason  not rea di ly  a pp are nt to the laype rso n)  it  just isn'talway s po ss ib l e t o remov e  a l l  the  f ac tors  th at  dist urbs lee p.

Mos t patient s o n  a w ar dare inmulti patient  b ays. If apa tie nt isu n well
med ical staff will probabl y  have t o;talkoutloud, tur n o n a li ght ,  movesome
k it ar ou nd, w alk i n / ou t o fthe bay... a ndso on .This  wouldcertainly wake meu p.There's justver y li t t le  ca n  b e  do ne abo u t  it. Clinical n eed top tr um p scomfort.
T her ewill of  course  be r o om forimproveme nt, and s om e st a f f w ill be for getful
o f the nee d  to b e  m indfu l o f quie thou rs (i t's ve r y e asy t o forg et  it's'nigh ttime' wh en your brain is in 'at  work'  mode ).
So, a mo reb ala nced summ arywould be:"Me dic al pr ofe s siona ls t r ytop romot e ag ood sleep i ng  en v i ro nment, butt h e  ve ry na tur e  of ahosp ital makes this a challenge. How ever , the rei s al wa ys room for im pro ve m e nt and m an y local iss ues
canbe solve d viaimprov ed pati e n t- s taff c ommu nic ation". D oes n' t  make f or  s u ch
a c lick ba ity wh inge b l og t h o ugh when you phr ase i t thisw ay. 

~~~ 
w o
 they_don't have_those to
give out.

------
random878
As someone_on HN_who_is medical,_not_tech, this thread_is as frustrating_to
read as it would_be for many_of_you to read doctor's opinions on how best to
run a software engineering firm.

"I'm not_a_software engineer,_but_here's_my full breakdown on where_you are
all going wrong based_on using_a BBC Micro for a week back in_1993"

~~~
billfruit
But_in your experience_is there a problem with hospitals not understanding
that patients_need proper sleep?

~~~
random878
I'm very junior and_UK based so_I_can_only speak on my_experience...

No, there is no lack of_understanding about the importance of promoting_sleep.
To suggest that somehow medical professionals haven't_got round to working out
that there_are benefits to having a_good sleep_is, to be frank, completely
ridiculous_and quite insulting.

A_very specific_example would be_the importance of sleep in relation_to
delirium in elderly_patients. This is taken very seriously.

In_a_wider sense, hospital_staff_will_try to_establish a reasonable
environment_for_sleep. There_is_a need to be realistic though,_and_accept that
(for many many reason not readily_apparent to the lay_person)_it just isn't
always possible_to remove all the factors_that disturb sleep.

Most patients on a_ward are_in multi_patient bays. If a patient is unwell
medical staff will probably have_to; talk out loud, turn on_a light, move some
kit_around, walk_in/out_of the bay..._and_so on._This would certainly wake me
up. There's just_very little_can be done about it. Clinical_need top trumps
comfort.

There will_of_course be room for improvement, and_some staff will be forgetful
of the_need to be mindful of_quiet_hours_(it's very easy to forget_it's 'night
time' when your brain is_in 'at work'_mode).

So, a more balanced summary would be:_"Medical_professionals try to promote a
good sleeping_environment,_but the very nature of a_hospital_makes_this a
challenge. However, there is_always room for improvement and many_local issues
can be solved via improved patient-staff communication". Doesn't_make for such
a_clickbaity whinge blog though when_you_phrase_it this way.

~~~
wo