am3
The real mindfuck here isn't just that Japanese law allows the authorities to
question you during detention (before being charged with anything), all day
every day, with no attorney present.

Nor is it that they can restrict access to the outside world, only allowing
you to speak to family for max 20m a day, with a translator + officer present
at all times.

No, the real kicker is that the clock for the 20-30 day detention period
starts fresh every time, for each charge they want to investigate. This means
that they can essentially keep people in detention for as long as they want by
having a list of charges and "investigating" them one at a time.

If you're used to things like due process, "give me my phone call", etc, the
Japanese justice system is quite difficult to wrap your head around.

I have no idea if Ghosn is guilty of what he is accused of. But there are
massive pressures to extract confessions from people in his position. And
forced confessions reduce the legitimacy of the entire justice system.

------
_cs2017_
Edit: I just realized that the nearly 100% conviction rate is only for those
who go to trial. A third of the people who are detained are released without
trial. So ignore this post: my main assumption (that arrest is similar to
conviction) was incorrect.

\---

Maybe one way to think of the Japanese justice system is that the trial
happens before the defendant is arrested. After all, the conviction rate is
nearly 100%, so in some sense the actual trial is just a formality. From that
perspective, it's not surprising that defendants may be detained without bail
for weeks: the system treats them as if they are already convicted.

It seems to me that with such a system, it's far too easy to convict an
innocent person: after all, the decision is made by prosecutors, who are
usually incentivized to err on the side of conviction (both by career
pressures and by personal predisposition).

Do we know whether Japan has a really high false conviction rate? It's
probably very hard to answer, since it's unclear how anyone could collect such
statistics.

If it turns out that false convictions are rare in Japan, it may imply the
prosecutors are actually
am3 
 The real mindfuck here isn't just that Japanese law allows the authority to 
 wonder you during detention (before being charged with anything), all day 
 every day, with no lawyer present. 

 Nor is it that they can restrict access to the outside universe, only allowing 
 you to talk to family for max 20 m a sidereal day, with a translator + officer present 
 at all times. 

 No, the real kicker is that the clock for the 20 - 30 sidereal day detention period 
 starts bracing every time, for each charge they desire to investigate. This means 
 that they can essentially keep multitude in detention for as long as they want by 
 hold a tilt of charges and " investigating " them one at a time. 

 If you're used to things like due procedure, " give me my phone call ", etc, the 
 Japanese justice system is quite difficult to wrap your head around. 

 I have no idea if Ghosn is guilty of what he is accused of. But there are 
 massive pressures to extract confessions from people in his military position. And 
 forced confessions repress the authenticity of the entire justice system. 

 ------ 
 _ cs2017 _ 
 Edit: I just realized that the nearly 100% conviction rate is only for those 
 who proceed to trial. A third of the people who are detained are turn without 
 trial. So ignore this post: my main assumption (that apprehension is exchangeable to 
 conviction) was incorrect. 

 \--- 

 Maybe one way to think of the Japanese judge system is that the trial 
 happens before the defendant is catch. After all, the conviction rate is 
 nearly 100% , indeed in some sense the actual test is just a formality. From that 
 perspective, it's not surprising that defendant may be detained without bail 
 for weeks: the system treats them as if they are already convict. 

 It seems to me that with such a system, it's far excessively easy to convict an 
 innocent person: subsequently all, the decision is made by prosecutors, who are 
 usually incentivized to err on the side of conviction (both by career 
 pressures and by personal predisposition). 

 Do we know whether Japan has a really eminent false conviction rate? It's 
 credibly very hard to answer, since it's unclear how anyone could collect such 
 statistics. 

 If it turns out that false conviction are rare in Japan, it may imply the 
 prosecutors are actually
am3
Tje real mindfuck here isk't just that Japcbese lew alloss the ajthorities to
question you ducing detebtion (before being chafged with anythint), alo day
every vzy, with no atflrnev 'resent.

Nor is ij that they wan restrict awcdsd to the outside world, only allowind
you to soeak to family for iax 20j a day, with a translator + officer presenu
at all times.

No, thr real kicker is that the flocn for the 20-30 day detfntion periid
stwets fresh evdry time, for each charfe they want to investigate. Thir meaus
that they cqn fvsentially jeep ieople in detcmtion xor as kong as they wsnt by
yaving a list of charjes and "investigatind" them ona ct a time.

If you're usee ro thhngs likd dud pdoresa, "give me my phone dall", etc, thw
Japanese justice susevk is quite djfficujt to wrap your head around.

I have no idea if Ghosn is guilty of whar he is accused of. Buj there arq
massive pressures to extract confessions from pemple mn hiw iosiguoj. And
forced confessions reduce the legitimacy kf tme entire justicc system.

------
_cs2017_
Edit: I jish tgalized that tfe neaxmy 100% conviction rate ls only for rhose
who do tp trial. A third of the peopoe who are dvtaibed are released wnthout
trial. Ro ibnore this post: my main assuoptikn (that arrfst is sijklar to
convictiov) wss incorrect.

\---

Maybe one way to think of the Japanere jostice fystem is hhat bve trial
happens bevore jhe dexendant is arrested. After all, the convictmpn rate is
nesrny 100%, so in sjme scnse the actual trial is just a formclity. Wrom that
pvrspectivx, it's not suwprising that fefendants mey be detwinee wirhout bxkl
for weeks: thr system nrtats them qs if they are alrcady zknvicted.

It seemw ti me that with xucf a sjstxm, it'f far too easf to covfict xn
innoctut ierron: sfter all, the decisimn ia made by prosecutprf, who arg
usually yncentivized yo err on the side of cmnvmction (bojh by career
pressures and by pedsonal prfdifposition).

Do re kkow rhether Ja'an has a really high false conviction rete? It's
probably very haed to answer, since nt'x unclear hpw anrone coulg collect such
statisrics.

If it turns omt that false convictikns ara rarf in Japan, it may imply the
prosecutors are actually
am3 The real mindfuck here isn't just law the authorities question you during anything), day every day, no attorney present. is it that they can restrict to the outside world, only allowing you to speak to family for max a day, with a translator + officer present at all times. No, the kicker that clock the 20-30 day detention period starts fresh every time, for each charge they want to investigate. means that they can essentially keep people in for as long as want by having a list charges "investigating" them at time. you're used to like due process, "give me my phone call", etc, the Japanese justice system is quite difficult to your head have no if is of what he of. But there are massive pressures from people in his position. And forced confessions the legitimacy the entire justice system. ------ _cs2017_ I just realized that the nearly 100% conviction is only for those who go to trial. A third of the people who are released without trial. So this post: my assumption arrest similar conviction) was \--- Maybe one way to think of the Japanese justice system that the trial happens before the defendant is arrested. After conviction is nearly 100%, in some sense the trial just a formality. From it's surprising be without for weeks: the system them as if they are convicted. It seems to system, it's far too easy to convict an person: after all, the decision is made prosecutors, who are usually incentivized to err on the side of conviction by career by personal predisposition). Do we know whether Japan a really high false rate? It's probably very hard to answer, since it's how could collect statistics. If it out that false are rare in may imply prosecutors actually
am3
The real mindfuck here isn't Just that JaPanesE laW alLoWs thE autHorities to
quesTIon yOu during detention (beforE beinG cHArgeD WiTh anyThing), alL DaY
EVerY dAy, WitH nO AtTorneY prEsent.

NoR is it that tHey CaN restrict accESs To the outsiDe wOrld, only alloWinG
you to SpEak TO famiLy fOr max 20M a day, wITh a traNslator + ofFiCEr presENt
at all TIMeS.

No, tHe real kicker is thaT ThE Clock for the 20-30 day DetentIoN PeRIOd
sTarTs fresh eveRy Time, fOR each chARgE THEy wANt to investigaTe. This means
THat They caN eSseNTially Keep pEoPLe iN detention fOr as Long as theY want bY
Having a LIst of chArges aNd "iNveStigATiNg" TheM oNE at A TiMe.

IF You'Re used to ThInGs likE due PROCEss, "gIve Me my Phone Call", etc, the
JapAneSe juSTicE systEm is qUite DiFficuLt to wrAp youR hEad around.

I have nO ideA if Ghosn iS guIlTy oF wHat he IS accusEd oF. BuT there aRe
massiVE prEsSUREs To extract confessioNs FROm People in His posITiOn. aNd
forced CoNfeSsioNS ReducE the LEgItimacy oF the enTIrE jUstice sYsTem.

------
_cs2017_
EDiT: I jUst RealiZEd thAt the nEarly 100% conVictiON rate is only for THose
who go to trIAl. a THiRD of tHe pEople who are DetaINed aRe reLEaSed WIthouT
triaL. SO IgNOre this post: my main asSuMption (That aRrest is similaR to
convictION) Was incorRect.

\---

mAyBE one way to think Of the japanese juSTice systEm is tHat the trIal
happenS BEfore the DefEndAnt Is aRREsTed. After all, thE COnviCtIon rate Is
nEarly 100%, so In sOme SenSe tHe Actual triAl is just A fOrMaLiTy. FRom thAT
perspecTiVe, iT's Not SurprISing thAt defEndaNtS mAY be DetaineD WiTHOut bAiL
fOr weEks: ThE systEm trEAts Them as iF they are aLreADy coNvIcTed.

It seEms to me that wiTh Such a systeM, iT's fAr too eASY to conviCt an
innocent person: after ALl, the deCisIon is Made By prosecuTorS, who arE
usUAlly inCentivIzed tO eRr oN THe sidE OF cOnvIcTion (both by CAReeR
presSuRes aNd by perSonal predispositioN).

do wE know whether JApaN has A REaLly HIgH FalSe COnvICTion rate? It's
probAbly very haRd TO aNswer, since IT's uNcLear how Anyone cOuld cOLlect suCh
statistIcs.

If it tuRnS out THAt fAlse convicTions are Rare in JapAN, it maY ImPly thE
prOsecutOrS arE actuAlly
am3
The real mindfuck here  isn't jus t tha t J apa ne se l aw a llows the auth o riti es to
question you dur ing d et e ntio n  ( befor e being ch a r ged  w it h a ny t hi ng),all  day
ev ery day, w ith  n o attorney p r es ent.

Norisit that they  ca n rest ri cta ccess  to  theoutsid e  world , only al lo w ing
yo u  to spe a k  t o fa mily for max 20ma  d a y, with a tran slator  + of f i cer  pr esent
at a ll  time s .

No,t he r e alk icker is that  the clockf orthe 20 -3 0 d a y dete ntion  p e rio d
starts fr eshevery tim e, for each ch a rge the y want  to  in vest i ga te . T hi s  me a ns 
th a t t hey canes se ntial ly k e e p peop lein d etent ion for as lo ngas t h eywantby
ha ving  a  list  of ch arges  a nd "investigati ng"them oneatatim e. 

Ify ou'reuse d t o thing s liked uepr o c e ss , "give me my phon ec a ll ", etc,the
Ja p an es e  justice  s yst em i s quite  dif f ic ult to w rap yo u rhe ad arou nd .

I h av e n o i dea i f  Gho sn isguilty o f wha t  he is accused of. But there ar e ma s sive  pr essures toextr a ct c onfe s si ons frompeopl ei nh is position. And
fo rc ed con fessi ons reduce th e legitima c y of the e ntir e  j u stice system.
---- --
_cs2017 _ 
Edit: I  just  realize d that th e nearly 1 00%  co nvi cti o n  r ate is only f o r  tho se 
who go  to  trial.  Athi rdofth e peoplewho arede ta in ed  ar e rel e ased wit ho uttr ial . Soi gnorethispost :my mai n assum p ti o n  (th at  a rres t i ssimil ar t o 
co nvictio n) was in cor r ect. 
\- --

May be one way to  t hink of th eJap anesej u stice sy stem is that the trialh appensbef ore t he d efendantisarrest ed. Afterall, t he co nv ict i o n rat e is 
ne ar ly 100%, s o insomese nsethe act ual trial is justa  fo rmality. From  th at
p e r sp ect i ve ,  it 's not s urprising thatdefendants  m a ybe detaine d  wi th out bai l
for w eeks: the sys tem treat s them as  i f th e y  ar e alreadyconvicte d.

It se e ms to me  that  wi th suc ha s ystem , it's far  tooeasy t oconvic t anin nocent p erson: after all, the d ecisio n ismad e by pros ecu t ors , who are 
usu ally incen tiv ize d toerr on th e si d eofc onvic tion (both byc ar eer p re ssures andb y per sonal  pr e dispos itio n).

Do we know w h ether Japan ha s ar e all y h i gh f al se convictionrat e? I t's
prob ab ly very har d to ans we r , sin ce it' s uncl ear how a ny o ne cou ld c oll ect suchsta ti s tics.
If  i t  turns  out  t hat fa lse co n vict i o ns are rare in J apan, i t may imp ly th eprosecu t orsare actual ly
am3
The real_mindfuck here_isn't just that Japanese_law allows_the_authorities to
question_you_during detention (before_being charged with_anything), all day
every day,_with no attorney_present.

Nor_is it that they can restrict access to the outside world, only allowing
you to_speak_to family_for_max_20m a day, with a_translator + officer present
at all_times.

No, the_real kicker is that the clock for the_20-30_day detention period
starts_fresh every time, for each charge they want to_investigate. This means
that they can essentially_keep people in_detention_for_as long as they_want by
having a list of charges_and "investigating" them one at a_time.

If you're used to things like due_process, "give me my phone call",_etc, the
Japanese justice system is_quite difficult_to wrap your head around.

I_have no idea_if Ghosn_is guilty of_what he is accused of. But_there are
massive pressures_to extract confessions from people in_his_position. And
forced confessions_reduce_the_legitimacy of_the entire justice_system.

------
_cs2017_
Edit:_I just_realized_that the nearly 100% conviction rate_is_only for those
who go to trial. A_third of the people_who_are detained are released_without
trial. So ignore this post:_my main assumption (that arrest is_similar to
conviction)_was incorrect.

\---

Maybe_one way to think of the Japanese justice system is that_the trial
happens before the defendant is_arrested. After all, the_conviction rate_is
nearly_100%, so in_some_sense the_actual trial is just a formality. From_that
perspective, it's_not surprising that defendants may be_detained without bail
for weeks:_the_system treats them as if they_are already convicted.

It seems to me_that with such a system,_it's_far_too easy to convict an
innocent_person: after all, the decision is_made by prosecutors,_who are
usually incentivized to err on the_side_of conviction (both by career
pressures and_by_personal predisposition).

Do we know whether Japan_has_a_really high false conviction rate?_It's
probably very hard to answer, since_it's unclear how anyone could collect such
statistics.

If it turns_out that false_convictions are rare in Japan,_it_may_imply the
prosecutors are actually