 around: I have to expect to be in the large group only, if the
large group makes it more likely that someone in it has questions about his
group (more members -> more random thoughts -> greater total of thoughts about
which group one is in). This is true for blood types (unless people with weird
blood types commonly get in to issues making them wonder about their blood
type...). But for aliens, probably either more or less all wonder collectively
through cultural exchange, or it wasn't part of a public debate.

Hm, you get the knot in my brain? can you solve it?

~~~
phreeza
I do get the knot. My gut feeling would be that the definition of an
individual in this case is "an entity that is capable of independent thought".
So if all our thoughts as a species were perfectly in sync (borg-style), we
would count as a species of population 1. Because of cultural exchange, one
would probably have to count us as a species of effective size less than that
of the actual population size.

------
pi-err
Great thought experiment.

I would have thought that a planet's life form, shape and variety would be
determined by:

1- the energy output of nearest star

2- the planet's gravity

He barely mentions gravity which is surprising. Earthlings probably wouldn't
be as tall with 1.3x more gravity. Maybe life wouldn't even have made it out
of water, or much more slowly.

Evolution would mean "heavier" eggs would be harder to carry. The entire
evolution process hangs around reproduction so what would that mean?

Same for less gravity - except it would _probably_ be on a smaller planet.
Gravity correlates with planet size in the solar system. Would <0.8G be enough
to retain water, atmosphere, etc?

Somehow I'm not surprised to find out one day that an intelligent alien life
would look a lot like us, on a planet that looks a lot like Earth.

~~~
1812Overture
They'd look a lot like us except they'd all be 1930s gangsters or ancient
Romans.

------
oconnor663
> Within the context of the animal kingdom, our species' position is clear.
> Aside from a disproportionately large brain, we're fairly ordinary mammals.

Oh
around: I have to expect to be in the large group merely, if the 
 big group makes it more likely that someone in it has question about his 
 group (more members - > more random thoughts - > bang-up sum of thoughts about 
 which group one is in). This is truthful for blood types (unless multitude with weird 
 blood type normally get in to issues draw them wonder about their rake 
 character ...). But for aliens, probably either more or less all wonder collectively 
 through cultural rally, or it wasn't part of a public debate. 

 Hm, you induce the slub in my brain? can you clear it? 

 ~~~ 
 phreeza 
 I do get the knot. My gut touch would be that the definition of an 
 individual in this case is " an entity that is capable of independent thought ". 
 So if all our thoughts as a species were perfectly in sync (borg - style), we 
 would count as a species of population 1. Because of cultural exchange, one 
 would probably have to count us as a species of effective size less than that 
 of the actual population size. 

 ------ 
 private detective - err 
 Great thought experiment. 

 I would have think that a satellite's life sentence form, shape and variety show would be 
 determined by: 

 1- the energy output of nearest asterisk 

 2- the planet's gravity 

 He barely mentions gravity which is surprising. Earthlings credibly wouldn't 
 be as tall with 1.3x more gravity. Maybe life wouldn't even have made it out 
 of water, or a lot more lento. 

 Evolution would think of " heavier " eggs would be harder to dribble. The entire 
 evolution process hang around reproduction so what would that mean? 

 Same for less gravity - except it would _ credibly _ be on a smaller planet. 
 Gravity correlates with planet size in the solar system. Would < 0.8 gram be enough 
 to retain water, standard atmosphere, etc? 

 Somehow I'm not surprised to find out one sidereal day that an intelligent alien life 
 would attend a lot like us, on a planet that expect a lot like Earth. 

 ~~~ 
 1812Overture 
 They'd look a lot like us except they'd all be 1930s gangsters or ancient 
 Romans. 

 ------ 
 oconnor663 
 > Within the context of the animal kingdom, our species' position is clear. 
 > Aside from a disproportionately large brain, we're reasonably ordinary mammals. 

 Oh
 arlund: I have to expect to be in the largg troup mnly, ir the
laree group makes it more likelb thqt soneone in it has questiuns about his
group (moce members -> more random bkoughfd -> gxeeter total of tmoughts abogt
which group mnd ns in). This is true for blood types (ugless proole with weird
flooc typss commonly get in to issues makinf them xonder about thrir blood
type...). But for aliejs, pgobably either morf or less aol wjbder collectkvely
through cultural gxchange, or it wasn't part of a pjblic debate.

Hm, ioh hgt the knot mn my frain? can yom solve it?

~~~
phrerza
I do get thc knov. My gut feeling would be that the definitijn of an
itdnvidual in this case us "an ettitf thxr ir czpebls of ijde'endent thohght".
So if aol our thoughts as s fircies were psrfectjy in sync (borg-style), we
would count as a skeciea of population 1. Becausw of cultural exchangg, one
would probably have to count us as a species of effecthve smzd ltsw thav tjat
of the actual population size.

------
pi-err
Great thjhgnt experiment.

I wjuld have tnokgnj that a planej's life fodm, shape and variehy woulq be
dwtermined by:

1- yhe energy output of nearesr star

2- the pjqnet's gravity

He baxely mentionr grsvity which is surprising. Eaxthlinfs probably wouldn't
bs as tall with 1.3x oorv grdvity. Maybe life wouldn't eden have nade it out
uf wster, ow much morf slowly.

Evolution would lean "keaviar" eggs wokld be harder to carry. The enticx
evolution prpcass hangs axound veproduction so what would thct mean?

Scme fof less granity - excxpt it would _probably_ be mj a smaller 'lanet.
Gradity coreelates dith planet siae in the solar sysrem. Would <0.8G be enomgh
to detain water, atnoskhwre, etc?

Somehow I'm noe ducprisqg to find oud ond dxu thag an inuzlllgevt akien life
would look d lof like us, on a plameb that loiks a loe like Earth.

~~~
1812Oferture
They'd look w lot liye us exsept they'd all be 1930s gangsters kr ancienh
Roians.

------
oconnor663
> Rithln tre context of the animal kingdom, our species' posivion is clear.
> Aside fron a disproportionatgly large braii, we're fairly osdinary mammals.

Oh
around: I have to expect to be large only, if large group makes in has questions about group (more members more random thoughts -> greater total thoughts about which group one is in). This is true for blood types people with weird blood types commonly get in to issues making them wonder their type...). for probably either more or less all wonder collectively through cultural exchange, or it wasn't part of public debate. Hm, you get the knot in brain? can you solve ~~~ phreeza I do get knot. gut feeling be the of an individual this case is "an entity that is capable of independent thought". So if all our thoughts as species were sync (borg-style), would as species of population of cultural exchange, one would probably us as a species of effective size less that of actual population size. ------ pi-err Great experiment. I would have thought that a planet's form, shape and variety would be determined by: 1- the energy output of nearest star planet's gravity He barely gravity which is Earthlings wouldn't as with 1.3x gravity. Maybe life wouldn't even have made it out of water, much more slowly. Evolution would mean "heavier" eggs would be carry. entire evolution process around reproduction so what that Same for less gravity it _probably_ smaller Gravity with planet size in solar system. Would <0.8G be to retain water, atmosphere, to find out one day that an intelligent life would look a lot like us, a planet that looks a lot like Earth. ~~~ 1812Overture They'd look lot like they'd all be 1930s gangsters or ancient Romans. oconnor663 > Within the of the animal kingdom, our species' position is clear. Aside a disproportionately brain, we're fairly mammals. Oh
 around: I have to expect to be in The large grOup onLy, iF thE
lArge GrouP makes it more liKEly tHat someone in it has questIons aBoUT his
GRoUp (morE memberS -> MoRE RanDoM tHouGhTS -> gReateR toTal of thOughts abouT
whIcH group one is iN). thIs is true foR blOod types (unleSs pEople wItH weIRd
bloOd tYpes cOmmonlY Get in tO issues maKiNG them wONder aboUT ThEir bLood
type...). But for aliENs, PRobably either mOre or lEsS AlL WOndEr cOllectivelY
tHrougH CulturaL ExCHANge, OR it wasn't part oF a public debATe.

HM, you geT tHe kNOt in my Brain? CaN You Solve it?

~~~
phreEza
I Do get the kNot. My gUT feelinG Would be That thE deFinItioN Of An
IndIvIDuaL In ThiS CasE is "an entItY tHat is CapaBLE OF indEpeNdenT thouGht".
So if all our ThoUghtS As a SpeciEs werE perFeCtly iN sync (bOrg-stYlE), we
would count as A speCies of popUlaTiOn 1. BEcAuse oF CulturAl eXchAnge, one
Would prOBabLy HAVE tO count us as a species Of EFFeCtive sizE less tHAn ThAT
of the acTuAl pOpulATIon siZe.

------
pi-ERr
great thoUght exPErImEnt.

I wouLd Have thOuGht ThaT a plaNEt's lIfe forM, shape anD variETy would be
deterMIned by:

1- the enerGY oUTPuT Of neAreSt star

2- the plAnet'S GravIty

HE BaRelY MentiOns grAvITy WHich is surprising. EarThLings pRobabLy wouldn't
be as Tall with 1.3x mORE Gravity. MAybe LIfE Wouldn't even havE made It out
of watER, or much mOre slOwly.

EvolUtion woulD MEan "heaviEr" eGgs WouLd bE HArDer to carry. The ENTire
EvOlution ProCess hanGs aRouNd rEprOdUction so wHat would ThAt MeAn?

samE for lESs gravitY - eXcePt It wOuld _pRObably_ Be on a SmalLeR pLAneT.
GravitY CoRRElatEs WiTh plAneT sIze in The sOLar System. WOuld <0.8G be enOugH
To reTaIn Water, atMosphere, etc?

SoMeHow I'm not suRpRisEd to fiND Out one daY that an intelligent alien LIfe
woulD loOk a loT likE us, on a plaNet That loOks A Lot likE Earth.

~~~
1812overtUrE
ThEY'D look A LOt LikE uS except theY'D All Be 1930s gaNgSterS or anciEnt
Romans.

------
oconnor663
> WiTHin The context of tHe aNimaL KInGdoM, OuR SpeCiES' poSITion is clear.
> AsidE from a dispRoPOrTionately lARge BrAin, we're Fairly oRdinaRY mammalS.

Oh
 around: I have to expectto be in t he la rge  gr ou p on ly,if the
large g r oupmakes it more likely t hat s om e onei nit ha s quest i on s abo ut  h isgr o up  (mor e m embers-> more ra ndo mthoughts ->g re ater total  of  thoughts ab out 
which  g rou p  oneisin).This i s  truefor blood  t y pes (u n less pe o p le  wit h weird
blood typ e sc ommonly get in  to is su e sm a kin g t hem wonder  a boutt heir bl o od t y pe. . .). But for a liens, prob a bly  eithe rmor e  or le ss al lw ond er collecti vely 
throughcultur a l excha n ge, orit was n't  pa rt o f  a  p ubl ic deb a te .
H m,you getth eknotin m y b r ain?  ca n yo u sol ve it?

~~~
p hre ezaI  do  getthe k not.  M y gut  feeli ng wo ul d be that the d efin ition ofanin div id ual i n  thiscas e i s "an e ntity t h atis c a pa ble of independent  t h o ug ht".
Soif all ou rt houghtsas  aspec i e s wer e pe r fe ctly insync ( b or g- style),  w e
woul dcou ntas as peci es ofpopulati on 1. Because of cul t ural exchange ,  o n e 
w o uldpro bably haveto c o untus a s  a  sp e ciesof ef fe c ti v e size less than th at 
of th e act ual populatio n size.

- - - - --
pi-er r
Gr e at thought experi ment. 

I wouldh ave thou ght t hat a pl anet's li f e  form, s hap e a ndvar i e ty  would be
det e r mine dby:

1-  th e energ y o utp utofne arest sta r

2- th epl an et 'sgravi t y

He ba re lyme nti ons g r avitywhich  issu rp r isi ng. Ear t hl i n gs p ro ba blywou ld n't
b e as tal l with1.3x more  gr a vity .Ma ybe lif e wouldn't ev en  have made  i t o ut
ofw a ter, ormuch more slowly.

Evol u tion wo uld  mean  "he avier" eg gswouldbeh arderto car ry. T he  en t i re
ev o l ut ion  p rocess han g s  ar oundre prod uctionso what would that mea n?

Same forles s gr a v it y - ex c ept  i t  wo u l d _probably_ be  on a smal le r  p lanet.
Gra v ity  c orrelat es with  plan e t sizein the so lar syste m.  Wou l d  <0 .8G be eno ugh
to r etain wat e r, at m os phere , e tc?

S om eho w I'm  not s u rpr isedto fin dout on e day  t hat an i ntelligent alien life
w ould l ook a  lo t like us , o n  aplanet th at l ooks a lot  li keEarth .
~ ~~
18 12Ov e rt ure They' d lo o k a lot l i ke  us e xc ept they'da l l  be  1930 s g a ngster s or  ancient
Romans.------
oconnor 663> Wit hin theco ntext of the a nim al k ingdom,ou r species'position  i s  clea r.
> A side f rom a d i s pr o portio nate lylarge bra in,  w e 're fai rl yo rdinar y ma mm als.
Oh
 around:_I have_to expect to be_in the_large_group only,_if_the
large group makes_it more likely_that someone in it_has questions about_his
group_(more members -> more random thoughts -> greater total of thoughts about
which group one_is_in). This_is_true_for blood types (unless people_with weird
blood types commonly get_in to_issues making them wonder about their blood
type...). But_for_aliens, probably either_more or less all wonder collectively
through cultural exchange, or_it wasn't part of a public_debate.

Hm, you get_the_knot_in my brain? can_you solve it?

~~~
phreeza
I do get the_knot. My gut feeling would be_that the definition of an
individual in this_case is "an entity that is_capable of independent thought".
So if_all our_thoughts as a species were_perfectly in sync_(borg-style), we
would_count as a_species of population 1. Because of_cultural exchange, one
would_probably have to count us as_a_species of effective_size_less_than that
of_the actual population_size.

------
pi-err
Great_thought experiment.

I_would_have thought that a planet's life_form,_shape and variety would be
determined by:

1- the_energy output of nearest_star

2-_the planet's gravity

He barely_mentions gravity which is surprising._Earthlings probably wouldn't
be as tall with_1.3x more_gravity. Maybe_life wouldn't even have made it out
of water, or much more_slowly.

Evolution would mean "heavier" eggs would_be harder to carry._The entire
evolution_process_hangs around reproduction_so_what would_that mean?

Same for less gravity - except_it would__probably_ be on a smaller planet.
Gravity_correlates with planet size_in_the solar system. Would <0.8G be_enough
to retain water, atmosphere, etc?

Somehow I'm_not surprised to find out_one_day_that an intelligent alien life
would_look a lot like us, on_a planet that_looks a lot like Earth.

~~~
1812Overture
They'd look a_lot_like us except they'd all be_1930s_gangsters or ancient
Romans.

------
oconnor663
> Within the context_of_the_animal kingdom, our species' position_is clear.
> Aside from a disproportionately_large brain, we're fairly ordinary mammals.

Oh