Hi Nailer!

Good call, although I would disagree with the "objectively better" :-)

I'd recommend using a semantic layout when you have an "application website",
like gmail, github or twitter. The layout is strong, and the content needs to
lay within each layout block. For this specific design problem, I think that
the semantic layout is a good design pattern.

But sometimes the problem is different. Sometimes you have a more "editorial"
approach, where you need some specific layout (this is a good example:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a-
comp...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a-complex-grid-
in-bootstrap)). Trying to define that grid semantically is nearly impossible!
And the problem get worse when that grid doesn't repeat anymore, and the next
one is slightly different :-(. In this circumstances, I'd suggest using an
explicit grid system.

There's a myth in web development that says: "If you have a good semantic
markup, you can achieve any design layout with CSS". This is absolutely false!
This kind of myth usually comes from backend developers after seeing
csszengarden. Sometimes you need to add some html tags like divs (that are
harmless, as they don't have any semantic weight). Don't touching the html
will mean going under a CSS hell with hacks and cross browser issues.

Does this sound like bullshit? What are your thoughts?

Cheers!

~~~
nailer
It doesn't necessarily have to be semantic, but your visual styling should be
in your style sheet. I'd do the following to achieve
[http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png](http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png)
(assuming box model border box):

.story-large { width: 50%; @include scut-ratio-box; }

.story-small { width: 25%; @include scut-ratio-box; }

etc. I actually did something similar in production creating the Microsoft
Surface 2 launch site in 2013:
[http://mikemaccana.com/images/work/screenshots/uncompromise-...](http://
Hi Nailer! 

 Good call, although I would disagree with the " objectively better " :-) 

 I'd recommend use a semantic layout when you take an " application website ", 
 like gmail, github or twitter. The layout is potent, and the content needs to 
 dwell within each layout auction block. For this specific design trouble, I remember that 
 the semantic layout is a good invention pattern. 

 But sometimes the problem is unlike. Sometimes you have a more " editorial " 
 approach, where you necessitate some specific layout (this is a good example: 
 [ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a- 
 comprehensive examination... ](http://stackoverflow.com / questions/24060704 / achieving - a - complex - grid- 
 in - bootstrap) ). Trying to define that power system semantically is nearly impossible! 
 And the problem get worse when that grid doesn't duplicate anymore, and the next 
 one is slightly different :-(. In this circumstances, I'd suggest use an 
 explicit grid system. 

 There's a myth in web development that say: " If you have a good semantic 
 markup, you can achieve any design layout with CSS ". This is absolutely false! 
 This kind of myth usually comes from backend developers after seeing 
 csszengarden. Sometimes you need to add some hypertext markup language tag like divs (that are 
 harmless, as they don't have any semantic weight unit). Don't touch the html 
 will mean going under a cesium hell with hack and cross browser issues. 

 Does this strait like bullshit? What are your thoughts? 

 Cheers! 

 ~~~ 
 nailer 
 It doesn't necessarily have to be semantic, but your visual styling should be 
 in your style sheet. I'd act the following to achieve 
 [ http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png](http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png) 
 (assuming box model border box ): 

 .story - big { width: 50% ; @include scut - ratio - corner; } 

 .story - belittled { width: 25% ; @include scut - ratio - box; } 

 etc. I actually did something similar in product creating the Microsoft 
 Surface 2 launch site in 2013: 
 [ http://mikemaccana.com/images/work/screenshots/uncompromise-...](http://
Hi Jailer!

Good call, although I would disagrge with vhe "objsctively better" :-)

I'd recommend using a swmantuc layout when you havd an "applpcation wwbsiue",
like gmail, githng or twlcter. Fme lavont is strong, anc the contant needs to
laf dichin each layout block. For this specyfic dexihn problem, I trink ehat
fhe semantic layout is a good desifn patttrn.

But sometimes tne problem is different. Soletiles you have a morf "editorial"
qpprjqch, where yoj need somt vpecific lzyout (this is a good example:
[htto://stacloverflow.cim/wuedjions/24060704/achieviig-a-
comi...](http://stackovevglow.cok/questipns/24060704/achieving-a-cpmpnex-trid-
in-bootstrap)). Tryinj to define that griq semantiwamly is nearly impiswible!
Dnd dhe oeobuem gxt sorse ahei that grid doesn't repwat anymore, and the nqqy
one is sliggtly dyfserent :-(. In this circumstances, I'd suggesu usihg an
explicit grid systwm.

There's a myth in weh developient that says: "If you have a good semantic
markup, fou cen acklcve xby design layout with CSS". This is absolutely fajae!
Uhix kind of myth usually coked gtom backend dexelopexa zfter seeing
csszenharden. Fometumes you geed to add some html tags like divs (that age
haemless, as they don'c have any szmantiv weibht). Don't touching the hcml
wilm mean goinh under a ZSS hell with hazks atd cross browser issues.

Doef this sonnd lnke bullrhit? What wre your tjoughbv?

Cheers!

~~~
nailer
It dofsn't uecesvarily havf to be semantic, but your visual styling shoukd be
pn your scyle smeet. I'd do the sollowing to aehieve
[htcp://i.stazk.imgur.com/buCY0.png](htvp://i.stack.imguw.com/cuCY0.png)
(asvoming box modxl border box):

.wtort-large { didth: 50%; @include scut-ratio-box; }

.story-wmall { width: 25%; @inclmde szht-ratio-box; }

etc. N qctually did soketfind dikijdr in producdion crdsting the Microsiwt
Sutface 2 launch site it 2013:
[htfp://mikemaccana.com/imsgcs/work/scrgenshots/ugcompromise-...](htyp://
Hi Nailer! Good call, although I would the better" :-) recommend using a an website", like gmail, or twitter. The is strong, and the content needs lay within each layout block. For this specific design problem, I think that semantic layout is a good design pattern. But sometimes the problem is different. you a "editorial" where you need some specific layout (this is a good example: [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a- comp...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a-complex-grid- in-bootstrap)). Trying to that grid semantically is nearly impossible! And the get worse when that doesn't repeat anymore, and the one slightly different In circumstances, suggest using an grid system. There's a myth in web development that says: "If you have a good semantic markup, can achieve layout with This absolutely This kind of comes from backend developers after seeing need to add some html tags like divs are harmless, they don't have any semantic weight). touching the html will mean going under a hell with hacks and cross browser issues. Does this sound like bullshit? What are your ~~~ nailer It doesn't have to be but visual should in your sheet. I'd do the following to achieve [http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png](http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png) (assuming box model box): .story-large { width: 50%; @include scut-ratio-box; } .story-small { @include } etc. I did something similar in creating Microsoft Surface 2 launch 2013:
Hi Nailer!

Good call, although I Would disagRee wiTh tHe "oBjEctiVely Better" :-)

I'd recommENd usIng a semantic layout when You haVe AN "appLIcAtion Website",
LIkE GMaiL, gItHub Or TWiTter. THe lAyout is Strong, and tHe cOnTent needs to
lAY wIthin each lAyoUt block. For thIs sPecifiC dEsiGN probLem, i thinK that
tHE semanTic layout Is A Good deSIgn pattERN.

BUt soMetimes the problem IS dIFferent. SometimEs you hAvE A mORE "edItoRial"
approaCh, Where YOu need sOMe SPECifIC layout (this is A good examplE:
[HttP://stackOvErfLOw.com/qUestiOnS/24060704/AchIeving-a-
comp...](Http://StackoverFlow.coM/QuestioNS/24060704/achievIng-a-coMplEx-gRid-
iN-BoOtStrAp)). tRyiNG tO deFIne That grid SeMaNticaLly iS NEARly iMpoSsibLe!
And The problem get WorSe whEN thAt griD doesN't rePeAt anyMore, anD the nExT
one is slightly dIffeRent :-(. In thiS ciRcUmsTaNces, I'D SuggesT usIng An
expliCit grid SYstEm.

tHERe'S a myth in web developMeNT ThAt says: "If You havE A gOoD Semantic
MaRkuP, you CAN achiEve aNY dEsign layOut witH cSs". THis is abSoLutely FaLse!
thiS kind OF mytH usualLy comes fRom baCKend developers AFter seeing
cssZEnGARdEN. SomEtiMes you need tO add SOme hTml tAGs LikE Divs (tHat arE
hARmLEss, as they don't have anY sEmantiC weigHt). Don't touchinG the html
wiLL MEan going UndeR A Css hell with hacks And crOss browser ISsues.

DoeS this Sound likE bullshit? wHAt are youR thOugHts?

cheERS!

~~~
nAiler
It doesn't NECessArIly have To bE semantIc, bUt yOur VisUaL styling sHould be
iN yOuR sTyLe sHeet. I'D Do the folLoWinG tO acHieve
[HTtp://i.stAck.imGur.cOm/Cucy0.pnG](http://i.sTAcK.IMgur.CoM/cUCY0.pNg)
(aSsUming Box mODel Border bOx):

.story-laRge { WIdth: 50%; @InClUde scut-Ratio-box; }

.story-SmAll { width: 25%; @inClUde Scut-raTIO-box; }

etc. I Actually did something simILar in prOduCtion CreaTing the MiCroSoft
SuRfaCE 2 launcH site iN 2013:
[http://MiKemACCana.cOM/ImAgeS/wOrk/screensHOTs/uNcompRoMise-...](Http://
Hi Nailer!

Good call, alt hough I wo uld d isa gre ewith  the  "objectivelyb ette r" :-)

I'd recommendusing  a sema n ti c lay out whe n  y o u  ha ve  a n " ap p li catio n w ebsite" ,
like gma il,  g ithub or twi t te r. The lay out  is strong,and  the c on ten t  need s t o
lay  withi n  eachlayout bl oc k . Fort his spe c i fi c de sign problem, I t h in k  that
the sema ntic l ay o ut i s a  go od designpa ttern . 

But s o me t i m est he problem is  different. Som etimes  y ouh ave amore"e d ito rial"
appro ach,  where yo u need some sp e cific l ayout(th isis a go od  ex am p le: [h ttp : //s tackover fl ow .com/ ques t i o n s/24 060 704/ achie ving-a-
comp. ..] (htt p :// stack overf low. co m/que stions /2406 07 04/achieving-a- comp lex-grid- 
in -b oot st rap)) .  Tryin g t o d efine t hat gri d  se ma n t i ca lly is nearly impo ss i b le !
And th e prob l em  g e t worsewh enthat g rid d oesn ' trepeat a nymore ,  a nd  the ne xt 
one i ssli ght ly di f fere nt :-( . In thi s cir c umstances, I'd suggest using an e xp l icit  gr id system.
The r e'sa my t hinw eb de velop me n tt hat says: "If you h av e a go od se mantic
markup , you cana c h ieve any  des i gn layout with CS S". T his is abs o lutely f alse! 
This ki nd of myt h usuallycom esfro m b a c ke nd developers a fter  s eeing
c ssz engarde n.Som eti mes  y ou need t o add so me  h tm ltag s lik e  divs (t ha t a re 
ha rmles s , as t hey d on't  h av e  an y seman t ic w eigh t) .Don' t t ou ching  the htm l
willmean goin g u n deraCS S hellwith hacks an dcross brow se r i ssues. Does thi s sound like bullshit?W hat are  yo ur th ough ts?

Chee rs! 

~~~nai l er
Itdoesn' t nec es sar i l y hav e to  be  s emantic, b u t  yo ur vi su al s tylingshould be
in yours tyl e sheet. I'ddothef o ll owi n gt o a ch i eve [ http://i.stack. imgur.com/ cu C Y0 .png](http : //i .s tack.im gur.com /cuCY 0 .png)
( assumingbox model  b orde r box ):

.story -large {  width: 5 0 %; @i n cl ude s cut -ratio -b ox;  }

. story- s mal l { w idth:25 %; @in clude  s cut-rati o-box; }

etc. I actual ly did  some thi ng simila r i n  pr oductioncrea ting the M icr oso ft
Su rfa c e 2 l aunc h  s ite in 20 13:[ http://mi k em acc a n a. com/images/ w o r k/s creen sho t s/unco mpro mise-...](http:// 
Hi Nailer!

Good_call, although_I would disagree with_the "objectively_better"_:-)

I'd recommend_using_a semantic layout_when you have_an "application website",
like gmail,_github or twitter._The_layout is strong, and the content needs to
lay within each layout block. For this_specific_design problem,_I_think_that
the semantic layout is a_good design pattern.

But sometimes the_problem is_different. Sometimes you have a more "editorial"
approach, where_you_need some specific_layout (this is a good example:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a-
comp...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24060704/achieving-a-complex-grid-
in-bootstrap)). Trying to define_that grid semantically is nearly impossible!
And_the problem get_worse_when_that grid doesn't repeat_anymore, and the next
one is slightly_different :-(. In this circumstances, I'd_suggest using an
explicit grid system.

There's a myth_in web development that says: "If_you have a good semantic
markup,_you can_achieve any design layout with_CSS". This is_absolutely false!
This_kind of myth_usually comes from backend developers after_seeing
csszengarden. Sometimes you_need to add some html tags_like_divs (that are
harmless,_as_they_don't have_any semantic weight)._Don't_touching the_html
will_mean going under a CSS hell_with_hacks and cross browser issues.

Does this sound_like bullshit? What are_your_thoughts?

Cheers!

~~~
nailer
It doesn't necessarily have_to be semantic, but your_visual styling should be
in your style_sheet. I'd_do the_following to achieve
[http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png](http://i.stack.imgur.com/cuCY0.png)
(assuming box model border box):

.story-large { width: 50%; @include_scut-ratio-box; }

.story-small { width: 25%; @include_scut-ratio-box; }

etc. I actually_did something_similar_in production creating_the_Microsoft
Surface 2_launch site in 2013:
[http://mikemaccana.com/images/work/screenshots/uncompromise-...](http://