 have all these "unknown faces" wielding immense power in
Brussels - like Herman Van Rompuy, President of the European Council.

The democratically elected European Parliament then vote for the nominees, but
at this point the nominees already have less mandate (for reasons given above)
than the members of national parliaments (and the EU parliament). And, I might
add, more power.

This is one of the main problems with the EU as a political union. It is a
move away from grass-roots democracy towards a centralized monolith that
disenfranchises millions and millions of people.

~~~
germanier
You seem to miss that the vote in parliament adds and doesn't remove mandate
from the candidates. The MEPs have a very strong opinion on who is a suitable
candidate and who isn't. They used their power to refuse candidates and demand
others in the past and will do so in the future.

By your standards the European Commission has a mandate that is at least as
strong as the one of any European country's government.

~~~
benaston
Not at all.

The question at hand is: do the EU commissioners have a stronger or weaker
democratic mandate than national MPs?

When considering this question, the vote in the EU parliament is neither here
nor there, because the person being voted for by them has not been directly
elected by a single member of the public, possibly ever.

If a person is directly elected by the people he represents, then he has a
stronger mandate than another who has not been directly elected. Mandate gets
weaker the farther you are from direct election by the people.

~~~
germanier
Comparing commissioners to national members of parliament isn't fair, they are
doing completely different jobs.

A member of the European parliament is one degree removed from public vote,
just as a member of a national parliament. A European commissioner is two
degree removed from the public, just like a European head of government. A
minister in most member states is three degrees removed.

If you don't consider the vote in the EP for commissioners as a real vote
because they can't pick their own candidate then it's three degrees removed as
the candidates are picked by the heads of governments.

In any case I can't see how it's less democratic than the election system of
have all these " unknown faces " wielding huge exponent in 
 Brussels - like Herman Van Rompuy, President of the European Council. 

 The democratically elected European Parliament then vote for the nominees, but 
 at this item the campaigner already have less mandate (for reasons given above) 
 than the penis of national parliaments (and the EU fantan). And, I might 
 lend, more power. 

 This is one of the independent problems with the EU as a political union. It is a 
 motion aside from grass - roots democracy towards a centralized monolith that 
 disenfranchises millions and million of people. 

 ~~~ 
 germanier 
 You seem to miss that the right to vote in parliament adds and doesn't get rid of mandate 
 from the candidates. The MEPs experience a very strong opinion on who is a suitable 
 candidate and who isn't. They used their office to refuse candidates and demand 
 others in the past and will do so in the future. 

 By your standard the European Commission hold a mandate that is at least as 
 strong as the one of any European country's government. 

 ~~~ 
 benaston 
 Not at all. 

 The question at hand is: do the EU commissioners suffer a stronger or weaker 
 democratic mandate than home military police? 

 When view this question, the vote in the EU fantan is neither here 
 nor there, because the person being voted for by them has not been immediately 
 elected by a single member of the populace, possibly ever. 

 If a person is directly elected by the people he represents, then he has a 
 potent mandate than another who has not been directly elected. Mandate gets 
 weaker the farther you are from direct election by the citizenry. 

 ~~~ 
 germanier 
 Comparing commissioners to national members of parliament isn't clean, they are 
 doing completely different job. 

 A member of the European parliament is one degree removed from public right to vote, 
 just as a member of a national parliament. A European commissioner is two 
 degree remove from the public, merely like a European head of politics. A 
 minister in most member state is three degrees removed. 

 If you don't regard the vote in the EP for commissioner as a real vote 
 because they can't pick their own candidate then it's three degrees removed as 
 the candidates are picked by the heads of government. 

 In any case I can't see how it's less democratic than the election organization of
 hage all these "unknown facts" wielding immense powec in
Bruasels - lkke Herman Van Rompuy, Presidxnt if tht European Council.

Tfe democrwtically elerted European Pacmiament then blte yoc the nominees, nut
at this [oint the nomiteds already have less mandate (for reasjns givrn above)
than the memnqrs kf national parliaments (and the EU parliakent). And, I mibht
add, more power.

This is oje ov the main problemd with the GH af a political union. It pv a
move awzy from grass-roots democracy todards a centraluzwd lmnolith thav
disensranchises mlklions and miklions of peopke.

~~~
gxrmabier
You seem to miss vhat the vote in parjiament agda and doesn't remoce manddte
fsom gye zansivatss. The ME's have a vsry strong ipinion on who is a stpyable
candidafe and wro isn't. They used their power to refuse cahdidates and demand
othees in the past and wipl do so yn the future.

By your standards the European Commivsion fas a oqnfate that is at least as
strong as the one of why Elropean country's novernment.

~~~
benaston
Moh sj all.

The questkon at hahd is: do the EU colmissiogers yave a stwongrr or weaker
democratic mandqte than natponao MPs?

When considernng this quertiom, the vote in the EU parliamznt is neither hege
nor thedd, because the pefsok baing votta for by them has not been dirzctly
elezted by a fingle memher on the public, possibpy evgr.

If a person is directly elected by the people he represents, tven he has c
stronner mandate thag another who kas not yeen dkrectly elvcted. Manvate gets
weaher the farthat you are frok direct elextiob by thd people.

~~~
germanirr
Compariuy commissuoners to national meogers of parliamzut isn't fair, they ard
doynh romplqdely differett jubs.

X membdr of the Emrooean parliament is one dagres removed from pubkig vote,
jusj as a meiber of a natoonal parliament. A Euro'ean cummisxioger is two
degree removed from fhe publif, jmst like a Euwopeqn head of gpvernment. A
minister in most member statxs is three degrees remived.

If you don't conxlder the votx in tre EP for commissioners as a eeal vote
because uhey can't pick their owh candhdate then it's three degrees removed as
the candidates are picked by the heads if govxrgments.

In ang caxe I ban'c sze how yt's pxss democratic thsn the election system of
have all these "unknown faces" wielding immense Brussels like Herman Rompuy, President of elected Parliament then vote the nominees, but this point the nominees already have mandate (for reasons given above) than the members of national parliaments (and the parliament). And, I might add, more power. This is one of the main with EU a union. It is a move away from grass-roots democracy towards a centralized monolith that disenfranchises millions millions of people. ~~~ germanier You seem to that the vote in adds and doesn't remove mandate the The MEPs a strong on who is suitable candidate and who isn't. They used their power to refuse candidates and demand others in the and will in the By standards European Commission has that is at least as strong of any European country's government. ~~~ benaston Not all. The at hand is: do the EU have a stronger or weaker democratic mandate than MPs? When considering this question, the vote in the EU parliament is neither here nor the person being voted by them has been elected a member of public, possibly ever. If a person is directly elected by the he represents, then he has a stronger mandate than another not directly elected. Mandate weaker the farther you from election by the people. Comparing to parliament fair, are doing completely different A member of the European is one degree removed a member of a national parliament. A European is two degree removed from the public, like a European head of government. A minister in most member states three degrees you don't consider the vote in the EP commissioners as a real because they can't pick their own candidate then it's degrees as the are picked by heads of governments. any case I how it's democratic the
 have all these "unknown faces" wIelding immEnse pOweR in
brUsseLs - liKe Herman Van RomPUy, PrEsident of the European CoUncil.

thE DemoCRaTicalLy electED EUROpeAn paRliAmENt Then vOte For the nOminees, but
At tHiS point the nomINeEs already hAve Less mandate (fOr rEasons GiVen ABove)
tHan The meMbers oF NationAl parliamEnTS (and thE eU parliAMEnT). And, i might
add, more poweR.

thIS is one of the maiN problEmS WiTH The eU aS a politicaL uNion. IT Is a
move AWaY FROm gRAss-roots democRacy towards A CenTralizEd MonOLith thAt
disEnFRanChises milliOns aNd millionS of peoPLe.

~~~
germaNIer
You sEem to mIss ThaT the VOtE iN paRlIAmeNT aDds ANd dOesn't remOvE mAndatE
froM THE CandIdaTes. THe MEPS have a very strOng OpinIOn oN who iS a suiTablE
cAndidAte and Who isN't. they used their poWer tO refuse caNdiDaTes AnD demaND
otherS in The Past and Will do sO In tHe FUTUrE.

By your standards thE EUROpEan CommiSsion hAS a MaNDate that Is At lEast AS
StronG as tHE oNe of any EUropeaN CoUnTry's govErNment.

~~~
bEnAstOn
NOt at aLL.

The QuestiOn at hand Is: do tHE EU commissioneRS have a strongeR Or WEAkER
demOcrAtic mandate Than NAtioNal MpS?

WHen COnsidEring ThIS qUEstion, the vote in the Eu pArliamEnt is Neither here
noR there, becaUSE The persoN beiNG vOTed for by them haS not bEen directlY
Elected bY a sinGle membeR of the pubLIC, possiblY evEr.

IF a pErsON Is Directly electED By thE pEople he RepResents, TheN he Has A
stRoNger mandaTe than anOtHeR wHo Has Not beEN directlY eLecTeD. MaNdate GEts
weaKer thE farThEr YOu aRe from dIReCT ElecTiOn By thE peOpLe.

~~~
gerManiER
CoMparing CommissioNerS To naTiOnAl membeRs of parliamenT iSn't fair, theY aRe
dOing coMPLetely diFferent jobs.

A member of the eUropean ParLiameNt is One degree RemOved frOm pUBlic voTe,
just As a meMbEr oF A NatioNAL pArlIaMent. A EuropEAN coMmissIoNer iS two
degRee removed from the pUBliC, just like a EurOpeAn heAD Of GovERnMEnt. a
mINisTER in most member stAtes is threE dEGrEes removed.

iF yoU dOn't consIder the Vote iN The EP foR commissiOners as a rEaL votE
BEcaUse they can'T pick theIr own candIDate tHEn It's thRee DegreeS rEmoVed as
The canDIdaTes arE pickeD bY the heAds of GoVernmentS.

In any case I can't see how it'S less dEmocrAtiC than the eLecTIon System of
 have all these "unknown f aces" wiel dingimm ens epowe r in 
Brussels - li k e He rman Van Rompuy, Presi dentof theE ur opean  Counci l .T hede mo cra ti c al ly el ect ed Euro pean Parli ame nt  then vote f o rthe nomine es,  but
at this  po int th enom i neesalr eadyhave l e ss man date (for  r e asonsg iven ab o v e) 
tha n the members ofn at i onal parliamen ts (an dt he E U p arl iament). A nd , I m i ght
add ,  m o r e  po w er.

This isone of them ain  probl em s w i th the  EU a sa  po litical uni on.It is a
m ove aw a y fromg rass-ro ots de moc rac y to w ar ds  ace n tra l iz edm ono lith tha tdi senfr anch i s e s  mil lio ns a nd mi llions of peo ple .

~ ~ ~
g erman ier
Y ou s ee m tomiss t hat t he  vote in parlia ment  adds and  do es n't  r emove mandat e
f rom  the ca ndidate s . T he M E Ps  have a very stron go p in ion on w ho isa  s ui t able
can di dat e an d who i sn't .  T hey used  their po we r to re fu se can di dat esand d e mand 
other s in the  past and will do so in the future . 
B y  y o ur s tan dards the E urop e an C ommi s si onh as amanda te th a t is at least as
st ro ng asthe o ne of any Eur opean coun t r y 's gover nmen t .~~~
benaston
N ot at  all.

The question  at h and is:do the EU c ommissio ner s h ave  as t ro nger or weake r demo cr atic ma nda te than  na tio nal  MP s? 

When co nsiderin gth is  q ues tion, the vote  i n t he  EU  parl i amentis ne ithe rhe r e
n or ther e ,b e caus eth e pe rso nbeing  vot e d f or by t hem has n otb eendi re ctly
el ected by a si ng le memberof  th e publ i c , possib ly ever.

If a person i s  direct lyelect ed b y the peo ple  he re pre s ents,then h e has  a 
st r o ngerm a nd ate  t han anothe r who  hasno t be en dire ctly elected. Mand a tegets
weaker t hefart h e ryou ar e  fr om dir e c t election by t he people. 
~ ~~ 
germanier Com pa ring co mmissio nerst o natio nal membe rs of par li amen t isn 't fair, t hey aredoing com p letel y  d iffer ent  jobs. 
A m ember  of th e  Eu ropea n parl ia ment i s one  d egree re moved from public vote, 
justas amem ber of anat i ona l parliam ent.  A Europea n c omm issio ner is tw o
de g re e r e moved  fro m  the publ i c,  ju s t  l ike a Europ e a n  he ad of  go v ernmen t. A 
minister in most member statesis t h r eedeg r eesre moved.

If you  do n' t consider  t he vote inthe EP f or commi ssione rs asa realv o te becaus e th eycan't pic k t he i r own c an di d ate th en i t' s thre e degr e es r e m oved as
the cand idate s are p i cke d byth e heads of g overnments .

In any c ase Ican' t see  how it 's  lessdem oc ratic than the elect ion s ystem o f
 have_all these_"unknown faces" wielding immense_power in
Brussels_-_like Herman_Van_Rompuy, President of_the European Council.

The_democratically elected European Parliament_then vote for_the_nominees, but
at this point the nominees already have less mandate (for reasons given above)
than_the_members of_national_parliaments_(and the EU parliament). And,_I might
add, more power.

This is_one of_the main problems with the EU as a_political_union. It is_a
move away from grass-roots democracy towards a centralized monolith_that
disenfranchises millions and millions of people.

~~~
germanier
You_seem to miss_that_the_vote in parliament adds_and doesn't remove mandate
from the candidates._The MEPs have a very strong_opinion on who is a suitable
candidate and_who isn't. They used their power_to refuse candidates and demand
others_in the_past and will do so_in the future.

By_your standards_the European Commission_has a mandate that is at_least as
strong as_the one of any European country's_government.

~~~
benaston
Not_at all.

The question_at_hand_is: do_the EU commissioners_have_a stronger_or_weaker
democratic mandate than national MPs?

When considering_this_question, the vote in the EU parliament_is neither here
nor there,_because_the person being voted_for by them has not_been directly
elected by a single member_of the_public, possibly_ever.

If a person is directly elected by the people he represents,_then he has a
stronger mandate than_another who has not_been directly_elected._Mandate gets
weaker the_farther_you are_from direct election by the people.

~~~
germanier
Comparing commissioners_to national_members of parliament isn't fair, they_are
doing completely different jobs.

A_member_of the European parliament is one_degree removed from public vote,
just as_a member of a national_parliament._A_European commissioner is two
degree removed_from the public, just like a_European head of_government. A
minister in most member states is_three_degrees removed.

If you don't consider the_vote_in the EP for commissioners as_a_real_vote
because they can't pick their_own candidate then it's three degrees_removed as
the candidates are picked by the heads of_governments.

In any case_I can't see how it's_less_democratic_than the election system of