------
jawngee
From the perspective of someone deeply rooted in UI development for the
desktop, seeing stuff like this makes me glad I am deeply rooted in UI
development for the desktop. If I had to build a Cocoa app with this messy,
complicated shit... I'd blow my brains out. All over my desk. Maybe I'd leave
a note, but I think people who knew what I did for a living would _get it_ and
not need me to leave one.

It also makes me wonder, how we've all decided that HTML is the way to go for
this class of application, how hacking a document display format to ape a
native UI is a good idea.

I have to think that at some point people think that there has to be a better
way to deliver a network transparent, portable UI without worrying about
strange things like a Shadow DOM, the hack that is CSS, and all of the other
weird shit web developers have to put up with to create something that mimics
(usually poorly) a desktop app.

Like is there a breaking point where people are like "fuck it" and come up
with an alternative browser that is specific to this and similar kinds of
applications? I guess not because the gray line between what HTML is good at
and what people need to HTML to do despite itself is a pretty big fat line.

~~~
mox1
HTML + CSS + Javascript is obviously far from perfect, but is there any other
way _TODAY_ to write a single piece of code that will run on just about every
computing device in circulation?

Honestly, I challenge anyone to write a simple UI (lets say draw a circle and
put some text on the screen) that just works across ALL major operating
systems, screen sizes, versions, etc.

If do actually end up doing it in anything besides "web" languages, its going
to be more complicated and take longer as well....

To make a car analogy, The Chevy small block V8 engine was/is never the best,
fastest, most efficient engine. It's just that for the past 40+ years they've
put the damn thing in every vehicle imaginable. It's pretty ubiquitous in the
auto world....It just works and everyone still uses it. Sort of like how you
will find a HTML, CSS, Javscript rendering
------ 
 jawngee 
 From the perspective of someone deeply rooted in UI development for the 
 background, see stuff like this makes me beaming I am deeply frozen in UI 
 development for the desktop. If I have to build a Cocoa app with this messy, 
 complicated shit... I'd blow my brains out. All over my desk. possibly I'd leave 
 a note, but I think people who know what I did for a living would _ get it _ and 
 not need me to leave one. 

 It besides makes me wonder, how we've all decided that HTML is the way to become for 
 this class of application, how hack a document display format to caricature a 
 native UI is a good estimate. 

 I have to think that at some point multitude think that there has to be a better 
 way to deliver a net crystalline, portable UI without worrying about 
 strange things like a Shadow DOM, the hack that is CSS, and all of the other 
 weird shit web developer have to put up with to produce something that mimic 
 (normally poorly) a desktop app. 

 Like is there a breaking point where people are like " fuck it " and come up 
 with an alternative browser that is specific to this and exchangeable kinds of 
 applications? I guess not because the gray line between what HTML is dependable at 
 and what people need to HTML to do despite itself is a reasonably big fatty line. 

 ~~~ 
 mox1 
 HTML + CSS + Javascript is obviously far from perfect, but is there any other 
 way _ TODAY _ to write a single man of code that will run on just about every 
 calculate device in circulation? 

 Honestly, I challenge anyone to write a bare UI (lets say guide a circle and 
 invest some text on the screen) that merely works across ALL major operating 
 organization, screen size, versions, etc. 

 If do actually end up do it in anything besides " web " languages, its going 
 to be more complicated and take longer as well.... 

 To reach a car doctrine of analogy, The Chevy small block V8 engine was / is never the best, 
 fast, about efficient engine. It's merely that for the past 40 + years they've 
 put the damn thing in every vehicle imaginable. It's pretty omnipresent in the 
 auto world.... It just works and everyone still uses it. Sort of like how you 
 will find a HTML, CSS, Javscript give
------
jawjgee
From the perspective of someone deeklt rootxd in UJ develooment for the
desktop, seeing dtyff luke this makes me glad I am deeily rootee in YI
developmxht for bke deantop. Mf I had to buikd a Cocoa app with this mdsdy,
complicated shit... I'd blow my brainf out. Akl over my desk. Iaybt I'q lezne
c note, but I think people who khew whau I did for a livimg would _get it_ and
not neef me to leave one.

It aldo makes me wonqwr, how we've xll decided that HTML js the way to go for
this class uf ap'lication, hiw hafning a docunent qisplay format to apa a
natife UI is a gooc ivea.

I have to think that av some point people jhink that tkere has to be a bettwr
qay tm denivef a vetsock franspwreit, portable UI without worrying about
stramgq things like z Shadjw DOM, the hack that is CSS, and all of tht othsr
weird shit web developers have to put up wlth to crqate something that mimics
(usually poorly) a deskto[ app.

Mkke if rhfre a breaking point where people are like "fusi ot" and come up
wibh an alternative nrlwxgr that is spezific ck fhis and similar klnds of
wpplixations? I guexs not because the gray linw between whct YTML is good at
and what peoplz need to HYML to do despite itsely is a pretty big fat line.

~~~
jux1
HTML + CSS + Javxscgipt is obviously far from persect, but ms thzre any uthet
way _TOQAY_ to wrihe a single piece of codf thaj will run on judt about every
computing device mi circulation?

Notesnly, I chajlengc anyone to wriee a simple UI (lets scy drad a circle and
put some text jn the screen) jhat just worns acrosf ALO mahor opefxting
systems, svreen sizvs, verwions, etc.

If do actmally snd up doing it in anything besidrs "deb" lwnjuagef, its going
to be oord compuicated and gake longer as well....

To mane a car analogy, The Cneyy small vlock V8 qngine was/is mever the best,
fasttst, movt xfficirnt engine. It's just that for the last 40+ yeags bhey've
put the damk thyng in evexy vehicle imaginable. It's pretty ubiquitius in the
auto wotld....It just works and gvevyone still nses ie. Sort of like how you
will fibd a HTML, CSS, Javxcript rendering
------ jawngee From the perspective of someone in development for desktop, seeing stuff I deeply rooted in development for the If I had to build a app with this messy, complicated shit... I'd blow my brains out. All over desk. Maybe I'd leave a note, but I think people who knew what did a would it_ and not need me to leave one. It also makes me wonder, how we've all that HTML is the way to go for class of application, how a document display format to a UI is good I to think that some point people think that there has to be a better way to deliver a network transparent, UI without strange things a DOM, hack that is all of the other weird shit to put up with to create something that (usually poorly) desktop app. Like is there a point where people are like "fuck it" and up with an alternative browser that is specific to this and similar kinds of applications? not because the gray between what HTML good and people to HTML do despite itself is a pretty big fat line. ~~~ mox1 + CSS + Javascript is obviously far from perfect, but any way _TODAY_ to a single piece of that run on just about device circulation? anyone write simple UI (lets say a circle and put some on the screen) that operating systems, screen sizes, versions, etc. If do end up doing it in anything besides languages, its going to be more complicated and take longer as well.... make a The Chevy small block V8 engine was/is never best, fastest, most efficient It's just that for the past 40+ years they've the thing in vehicle imaginable. It's ubiquitous in the world....It just works still uses Sort like find a HTML, CSS, Javscript rendering
------
jawngee
From the perspective Of someone dEeply RooTed In uI deVeloPment for the
desKTop, sEeing stuff like this makeS me glAd i Am deEPlY rootEd in UI
dEVeLOPmeNt FoR thE dESkTop. If i haD to builD a Cocoa app WitH tHis messy,
compLIcAted shit... I'd BloW my brains out. all Over my DeSk. MAYbe I'd LeaVe
a noTe, but I THink peOple who knEw WHat I diD For a livING wOuld _Get it_ and
not need me TO lEAve one.

It also maKes me wOnDEr, HOW we'Ve aLl decided tHaT HTML IS the way TO gO FOR
thIS class of appliCation, how haCKinG a docuMeNt dISplay fOrmat To APe a
Native UI is a Good Idea.

I have To thinK That at sOMe point People ThiNk tHat tHErE hAs tO bE A beTTeR
waY To dEliver a nEtWoRk traNspaRENT, PortAblE UI wIthouT worrying abouT
stRangE ThiNgs liKe a ShAdow dOm, the hAck thaT is CSs, aNd all of the other
WeirD shit web dEveLoPerS hAve to PUt up wiTh tO crEate somEthing tHAt mImICS
(UsUally poorly) a desktoP aPP.

liKe is therE a breaKInG pOInt where PeOplE are LIKe "fucK it" aND cOme up
witH an altERnAtIve browSeR that iS sPecIfiC to thIS and SimilaR kinds of
AppliCAtions? I guess noT Because the graY LiNE BeTWeen WhaT HTML is good At
anD What PeopLE nEed TO HTML To do dEsPItE Itself is a pretty big fAt Line.

~~~
moX1
HTML + cSS + Javascript Is obviouslY FAR from perFect, BUt IS there any other
Way _TOdAY_ to write A Single piEce of Code that Will run on JUSt about eVerY
coMpuTinG DEvIce in circulatION?

HonEsTly, I chaLleNge anyoNe tO wrIte A siMpLe UI (lets sAy draw a cIrClE aNd
Put Some tEXt on the sCrEen) ThAt jUst woRKs acroSs ALL MajoR oPeRAtiNg
systeMS, sCREen sIzEs, VersIonS, eTc.

If dO actUAllY end up dOing it in aNytHIng bEsIdEs "web" laNguages, its goiNg
To be more coMpLicAted anD TAke longeR as well....

To make a car analogY, the ChevY smAll blOck V8 Engine was/Is nEver thE beST,
fasteSt, most EfficIeNt eNGIne. It'S JUsT thAt For the past 40+ YEArs They'vE
pUt thE damn thIng in every vehicle iMAgiNable. It's prettY ubIquiTOUs In tHE
aUTo wOrLD....It JUSt works and everyOne still usEs IT. SOrt of like hOW yoU
wIll find A HTML, CSs, JavsCRipt renDering
------
jawngee
From the pe rspectiveof so meo nede eply  roo ted in UI deve l opme nt for the
desktop, se eingst u ff l i ke  this  makesm eg l adIam  de ep l yroote d i n UI
de velopmentfor  t he desktop.I fI had to b uil d a Cocoa ap p w ith th is  me s sy,
c omp licat ed shi t ... I' d blow my  b r ains o u t. Allo v er  mydesk. Maybe I'd l e av e 
a note, but I  think  p e op l e  wh o k new what I  d id fo r  a livi n gw o u ld_ get it_ and
n ot need met o l eave o ne .
I t also  make sm e w onder, howwe'v e all dec ided t h at HTML is theway to  go  fo r
th i scl ass  o f  ap p li cat i on,  how hac ki ng  a do cume n t d ispl ayform at to  ape a
native  UI  isa  go od id ea.
I ha ve  to t hink t hat a tsome point peop le t hink that  th er e h as  to b e  a bet ter 
wa y to de liver a net wo r k tr ansparent, portabl eU I  w ithout w orryin g  a bo u t
strang ethi ngsl i ke aShad o wDOM, the  hackt ha tis CSS,  a nd all  o f t heother weir d shit  web dev elope r s have to putu p with to cre a te s om e thin g t hat mimics(usu a llypoor l y)  ad eskto p app .Li k e is there a breaki ng  point  wher e people arelike "fuck i t " and co me u p 
w i th an alternat ive b rowser tha t  is spec ificto thisand simil a r  kinds o f
a ppl ica tio n s ?I guess not b e c ause  t he gray  li ne betw een  wh atHTM Lis good a t
and wh at  p eo pl e n eed t o  HTML to  d o d es pit e its e lf isa pre ttybi gf atline.
~ ~~ m ox1HT ML  + C SS+Javas crip t  is  obviou sly far f rom perf ec t,  but is  there any ot he r
way _TOD AY _ t o writ e a single  piece of code that wil l  run on  ju st ab outevery
com put ing de vic e  in ci rculat ion?
H one s t ly, I c ha lle ng e anyone t o wri te asi mple  UI (le ts say draw a circ l e a nd
put some t ext  ont h escr e en )  th at jus t works across AL L major op er a ti ng
systems ,  sc re en size s, vers ions, etc.

I f do actu ally endup  doi n g  it  in anythi ng besid es "web"l angua g es , its  go ing
to  b e m ore c omplic a ted  andtake l on ger as  well .. ..

To m ake a car analogy, TheChevysmall  bl ock V8 en gin e  wa s/is neve r th e best,
fa ste st,  most  ef f icien t en g in e.I t's j ustt hat for t h epas t 40 + years the y ' v e
p ut th e d a mn thi ng i n every vehicle i m aginable. It's  pre t t y u biq u itou sin the
auto wo rld .. . . It justwo rks and eve ryone st il l  uses  it. S ort of  like h o w  y o u
will  fin d a  HTML, CS S,Ja v scriptre nd e ring
------
jawngee
From the_perspective of_someone deeply rooted in_UI development_for_the
desktop, seeing_stuff_like this makes_me glad I_am deeply rooted in_UI
development for the_desktop._If I had to build a Cocoa app with this messy,
complicated shit... I'd blow_my_brains out._All_over_my desk. Maybe I'd leave
a_note, but I think people_who knew_what I did for a living would _get_it__and
not need me_to leave one.

It also makes me wonder, how we've_all decided that HTML is the_way to go_for
this_class_of application, how hacking_a document display format to ape_a
native UI is a good idea.

I_have to think that at some point_people think that there has to_be a better
way to deliver_a network_transparent, portable UI without worrying_about
strange things like_a Shadow_DOM, the hack_that is CSS, and all of_the other
weird shit_web developers have to put up_with_to create something_that_mimics
(usually_poorly) a_desktop app.

Like is_there_a breaking_point_where people are like "fuck it"_and_come up
with an alternative browser that is_specific to this and_similar_kinds of
applications? I guess_not because the gray line_between what HTML is good at
and_what people_need to_HTML to do despite itself is a pretty big fat line.

~~~
mox1
HTML_+ CSS + Javascript is obviously_far from perfect, but_is there_any_other
way _TODAY_ to_write_a single_piece of code that will run on_just about_every
computing device in circulation?

Honestly, I challenge_anyone to write a_simple_UI (lets say draw a circle_and
put some text on the screen)_that just works across ALL_major_operating
systems,_screen sizes, versions, etc.

If do_actually end up doing it in_anything besides "web"_languages, its going
to be more complicated and_take_longer as well....

To make a car_analogy,_The Chevy small block V8 engine_was/is_never_the best,
fastest, most efficient engine._It's just that for the past_40+ years they've
put the damn thing in every vehicle_imaginable. It's pretty_ubiquitous in the
auto world....It just_works_and_everyone still uses it. Sort of like how you
will find_a HTML,_CSS, Javscript rendering