, but it will happen. As Ben hints,
this may cause a bigger industry shift as well. With Apple on ARM, it makes
Windows and Linux ARM more palatable, in particular this could give ARM
servers a significant boost.

------
jimbokun
Will LLVM IR allow developers to deliver binaries that will run on both Intel
and ARM?

I see the Swift compiler can output LLVM IR, can you do the same thing with
Objective C code bases?

~~~
zozbot234
Not really. LLVM is not a single interoperable IR, it's more like a family of
IR's with many arch-specific details. WASM+WASI could work though.

------
kaiby
I'm not a business guy, but if Apple's going all-in on ARM processors, and
then they expand into the server market (which the article speculates on),
could we potentially see Apple opening a new product branch devoted to
competing in the Cloud space with AWS, Azure, and GCP?

Imagine developing apps on an ARM-powered macbook, deploying onto ARM-powered
servers owned by Apple, specifically for applications to be used on MacOS &
iOS devices.

------
samwillis
Would it be possible for Apple to have an optional dual processor system, an
ARM main processor and an optional Intel coprocessor? That way for people who
need support for “legacy” x86 apps or for development they could get it.

Could you have an external Intel coprocessor like we have external GPUs?

(I know nothing about how this would work, obviously the traditional way would
be to just have an remote x86 server for running those tasks)

~~~
pornel
I expect Apple to do something smarter, e.g. extend the ARM instruction set
with operations that speed up x86 emulation.

For example, emulation of x86 on ARM is expensive due to subtle differences in
memory model. Why not make an ARM chip that can operate with x86's memory
model?

------
ksec
I am beginning to think if it make sense to segment the Mac into two Category.

The Pro model will use x86. And retain the compatibility of all macOS apps,
some of them may likely never made the move to ARM. They
, but it will happen. As Ben hints, 
 this may cause a bigger diligence fault as well. With Apple on ARM, it makes 
 Windows and Linux ARM more palatable, in especial this could hold ARM 
 servers a significant boost. 

 ------ 
 jimbokun 
 Will LLVM IR admit developer to deliver binary star that will run on both Intel 
 and ARM? 

 I see the fleet compiler can output LLVM IR, can you do the same thing with 
 Objective C code bases? 

 ~~~ 
 zozbot234 
 Not in truth. LLVM is not a single interoperable IR, it's more like a family of 
 IR's with many arch - specific details. WASM+WASI could work though. 

 ------ 
 kaiby 
 I'm not a business guy, but if Apple's go all - in on ARM processors, and 
 then they extend into the server market (which the article speculates on), 
 could we potentially see Apple open a new product branch devoted to 
 competing in the Cloud quad with AWS, Azure, and GCP? 

 Imagine developing apps on an ARM - powered macbook, deploying onto ARM - powered 
 servers owned by Apple, specifically for applications to be used on MacOS & 
 iOS devices. 

 ------ 
 samwillis 
 Would it be possible for Apple to have an optional dual processor system, an 
 ARM chief processor and an optional Intel coprocessor? That way for multitude who 
 necessitate support for “ legacy ” x86 apps or for development they could have it. 

 Could you have an external Intel coprocessor like we have external GPUs? 

 (I know nothing about how this would work, obviously the traditional direction would 
 be to just have an remote x86 server for running those tasks) 

 ~~~ 
 pornel 
 I have a bun in the oven Apple to do something smarter, e.g. extend the ARM teaching set 
 with operation that travel rapidly up x86 emulation. 

 For example, emulation of x86 on ARM is expensive due to subtle differences in 
 memory exemplar. Why not make an ARM chip that can engage with x86's memory 
 model? 

 ------ 
 ksec 
 I am beginning to think if it make common sense to segment the Mac into two Category. 

 The Pro model will use x86. And retain the compatibility of all macOS apps, 
 some of them may likely never made the motion to ARM. They
, buh it will happen. As Ben mints,
this may caosw a bijger insustry sfift as well. With Apple on ACM, ir maktf
Windows and Linux ARM more palataboe, ii particular this could nnve ADL
serrecs a significanj boost.

------
jimbonun
Will LLVM IS xlpow developers to deliver binaries ehat wikl run on both Igtel
sgd ADM?

I see the Swift compiler can outlut LLVK IR, can you co the same thing with
Objeftivf C code bases?

~~~
zozblt234
Not realli. LLDN is not a skngle integmperable IT, it's more like a family of
IR's wkth mcny arch-spexidic getails. WASN+WASI could work bnough.

------
kdiby
I'm mot a business gub, bur if Apple's going all-mn on ARM processors, and
then dhzy expand into the seevwr matket (fhicf thd adtmcls specklaves on),
could we potentiqlly see Apple openond a new producf bransh devoted to
competing in the Cloud space wifh AWS, Azure, and GCP?

Imatine developing apps ln an ARM-[owered macbook, deploying onto ARM-powered
servers mwned cy Ciile, rpefifically for applications to be used on MacOF &
iPS devices.

------
samwiljis
Would it bf ljssible for Akple to habe an optional duap procefsor wystem, an
WRM kain processor and an optiobal Intel coirocwssor? That way for people who
ueed sopport for “legacy” x86 apps or fur dsvelopment hhey couls get it.

Could you hane at external Intel coprocessjr like wx havz externxl GKUs?

(I knjw nothing aboub how this would wogk, obriousny the trafitional way would
be to just hatx an remote x86 sarvvr for ruuning bhose tasks)

~~~
pornql
I expect Appke to dj somdthing smagter, e.g. eetend the ARI instruction det
with operetions thwt speed up x86 eojlation.

For exakple, emulcuion of x86 in ARM is expensivc due fo subtle diffextncts in
memory modek. Wfy gon meke ag ARM chip thdt cxn uleratd with x86's mcmofy
mocel?

------
ksec
I am beginninc to think if it make xekse to setment thq Mac into twp Category.

The Pro lodel wiul usr x86. And retain the compatibility kf all mafOS apps,
some of then may likely never made the move to ARM. They
, but it will happen. As Ben may a bigger shift as well. makes and Linux ARM palatable, in particular could give ARM servers a significant ------ jimbokun Will LLVM IR allow developers to deliver binaries that will run both Intel and ARM? I see the Swift compiler can output LLVM IR, you the thing Objective C code bases? ~~~ zozbot234 Not really. LLVM is not a single interoperable IR, it's like a family of IR's with many arch-specific WASM+WASI could work though. kaiby I'm not a business but Apple's going on processors, then they expand the server market (which the article speculates on), could we potentially see Apple opening a new product devoted to the Cloud with Azure, GCP? Imagine developing an ARM-powered macbook, deploying onto ARM-powered Apple, specifically for applications to be used on & iOS ------ samwillis Would it be possible Apple to have an optional dual processor system, ARM main processor and an optional Intel coprocessor? That way for people who need support x86 apps or for they could get Could have external coprocessor like have external GPUs? (I know nothing about how this would work, the traditional way would be to just have an remote for those tasks) ~~~ I expect Apple to something e.g. extend the ARM with that emulation. example, of x86 on ARM expensive due to subtle differences memory model. Why not can operate with x86's memory model? ------ ksec am beginning to think if it make to segment the Mac into two Category. The Pro model will use And retain of all macOS apps, some of them may never made the move ARM. They
, but it will happen. As Ben hints,
This may cauSe a biGgeR inDuStry ShifT as well. With AppLE on ArM, it makes
Windows and LinUx ARM MoRE palATaBle, in ParticuLAr THIs cOuLd GivE Arm
sErverS a sIgnificAnt boost.

------
jiMboKuN
Will LLVM IR aLLoW developerS to Deliver binarIes That wiLl Run ON both intEl
and aRM?

I seE The SwiFt compileR cAN outpuT lLVM IR, cAN YoU do tHe same thing with
ObJEcTIve C code bases?

~~~
zOzbot234
NOt REaLLY. LLvM iS not a singlE iNteroPErable Ir, It'S MORe lIKe a family of
IR'S with many arCH-spEcific DeTaiLS. WASM+WaSI coUlD WorK though.

------
kaibY
I'm nOt a busineSs guy, bUT if ApplE'S going aLl-in on aRM ProCessORs, AnD
thEn THey EXpAnd INto The serveR mArKet (whIch tHE ARTiclE spEculAtes oN),
could we potenTiaLly sEE ApPle opEning A new PrOduct Branch DevotEd To
competing in thE CloUd space wiTh AwS, azuRe, And GCp?

imaginE deVelOping apPs on an Arm-poWeRED MaCbook, deploying onto aRm-POwEred
servErs ownED bY APPle, speciFiCalLy foR APplicAtioNS tO be used oN MacOS &
IoS DeVices.

------
saMwIllis
WOuLd iT be PossiBLe foR Apple To have an OptioNAl dual processoR System, an
ARM maIN pROCeSSor aNd aN optional InTel cOProcEssoR? thAt wAY for pEople WhO
NeED support for “legacy” x86 aPpS or for DevelOpment they couLd get it.

CouLD YOu have an ExteRNaL intel coprocessOr likE we have extERnal GPUs?

(i know Nothing aBout how thIS Would worK, obVioUslY thE TRaDitional way woULD
be tO jUst have An rEmote x86 sErvEr fOr rUnnInG those tasKs)

~~~
pornel
i eXpEcT APplE to do SOmething SmArtEr, E.g. eXtend THe ARM iNstruCtioN sEt
WIth OperatiONs THAt spEeD uP x86 emUlaTiOn.

For ExamPLe, eMulatioN of x86 on ARM Is eXPensIvE dUe to subTle differenceS iN
memory modEl. why Not makE AN ARM chip That can operate with x86's memORy
model?

------
KseC
I am bEginNing to thiNk iF it makE seNSe to seGment tHe Mac InTo tWO categORY.

THe PRo Model will uSE X86. AnD retaIn The cOmpatibIlity of all macOS appS,
SomE of them may likEly NeveR MAdE thE MoVE to aRm. theY
, but it will happen. As B en hints,thismay  ca us e abigg er industry sh i ft a s well. With Apple onARM,it make s 
W indow s and L i nu x ARM  m or e p al a ta ble,inparticu lar this c oul dgive ARM
ser v er s a signif ica nt boost.

- --- --
jim bo kun WillLLV M IRallowd evelop ers to de li v er bin a ries th a t  w illrun on both Intel an d  ARM?

I see t he Swi ft co m p ile r c an outputLL VM IR ,  can yo u  d o t hes ame thing wit h
Objective C c ode ba se s?~~~
zo zbot2 34 Not  really. LL VM i s not a s inglei nterope r able IR , it's  mo relike afa mil yo f
I R 's  wi t h m any arch -s pe cific  det a i l s . WA SM+ WASI  coul d work though .
---- - -
k aibyI'm n ot a  b usine ss guy , but  i f Apple's going  all -in on AR M p ro ces so rs, a n d
then  th eyexpandinto th e  se rv e r ma rket (which the ar ti c l especulat es on) , 
c ou l d we pot en tia llys e e App le o p en ing a ne w prod u ct  b ranch d ev oted t ocom pet ing i n  the  Cloud  space w ith A W S, Azure, andG CP?

Imagined ev e l op i ng a pps  on an ARM- powe r ed m acbo o k,  de p loyin g ont oA RM - powered
servers own ed  by Ap ple,specificallyfor applic a t i ons to b e us e do n MacOS &
iOSdevic es.

----- - 
samwill is
Wo uld it b e possibl e for Appl e t o h ave  an o pt ional dual pr o c esso rsystem,  an 
ARM ma inpro ces sor  a nd an opt ional In te lco pr oce ssor? That way  f orpe opl e who need s uppor t fo r“l e gac y” x86a pp s or f or  d evel opm en t the y co u ldget it. 

Could y ouh avean  e xternal  Intel coproc es sor like w ehav e exte r n al GPUs? 

(I know nothing about how thi s w ouldwork , obvious lythe tr adi t ionalway wo uld
b etoj u st ha v e  a n r em ote x86 se r v erfor r un ning  thosetasks)

~~~
pornel I e xpect Apple t o d o so m e th ing sm a rte r, e.g . extend the ARMinstructio ns et 
with oper a tio ns  that s peed up  x86e mulatio n.

For e xample, e mu lati o n  of  x86 on AR M is exp ensive du e  to s u bt le di ffe rences  i n
m emory  model .  Wh y not  makean  ARM c hip t ha t can op erate with x86's memory 
model ?

-- --- -
ksec
Iamb egi nning tothin k if it ma kesen se to  se g menttheM ac  in t o two  Cat e gory.

Th e  P rom o de l will usex 8 6 . A nd re tai n  the c ompa tibility of all m a cOS apps,
some  oft h emmay like ly  never made th e m ov e to ARM.Th ey
, but_it will_happen. As Ben hints,
this_may cause_a_bigger industry_shift_as well. With_Apple on ARM,_it makes
Windows and Linux_ARM more palatable,_in_particular this could give ARM
servers a significant boost.

------
jimbokun
Will LLVM IR allow developers to deliver_binaries_that will_run_on_both Intel
and ARM?

I see the_Swift compiler can output LLVM_IR, can_you do the same thing with
Objective C code_bases?

~~~
zozbot234
Not_really. LLVM is_not a single interoperable IR, it's more like a_family of
IR's with many arch-specific details._WASM+WASI could work_though.

------
kaiby
I'm_not_a business guy, but_if Apple's going all-in on ARM_processors, and
then they expand into the_server market (which the article speculates on),
could_we potentially see Apple opening a_new product branch devoted to
competing_in the_Cloud space with AWS, Azure,_and GCP?

Imagine developing_apps on_an ARM-powered macbook,_deploying onto ARM-powered
servers owned by Apple,_specifically for applications_to be used on MacOS &
iOS_devices.

------
samwillis
Would_it be possible_for_Apple_to have_an optional dual_processor_system, an
ARM_main_processor and an optional Intel coprocessor?_That_way for people who
need support for “legacy”_x86 apps or for_development_they could get it.

Could_you have an external Intel_coprocessor like we have external GPUs?

(I_know nothing_about how_this would work, obviously the traditional way would
be to just have_an remote x86 server for running_those tasks)

~~~
pornel
I expect Apple_to do_something_smarter, e.g. extend_the_ARM instruction_set
with operations that speed up x86 emulation.

For_example, emulation_of x86 on ARM is expensive_due to subtle differences_in
memory_model. Why not make an ARM_chip that can operate with x86's_memory
model?

------
ksec
I am beginning to think_if_it_make sense to segment the_Mac into two Category.

The Pro model_will use x86._And retain the compatibility of all macOS_apps,
some_of them may likely never made_the_move to ARM. They