&
======
gknoy
"... from approximately 1 m using a... 39 megapixel digital camera... with
120 mm macro lens"

Good news: At least we can still trust that normaly surveillance cameras won't
have the kind of resolution to perform this feat.

~~~
boxey
... with 2x Bowens DX1000 1kW flash lamps with dish reflectors to illuminate
the bystanders at a distance of 1 meter.

That's ridiculous. Why is this even published?

~~~
hvidgaard
The point is that the information is clearly there, and with current
technology it is possible to extract it under ideal circumstances. It's not to
say it's feasible or will be, but it's not hard to imagine sensors becoming
advanced enough to capture the required light without using a special lens and
artificially illuminate the bystanders.

~~~
boxey
Wrong, current image sensors have around ~50% quantum efficiency nowadays. [1]
That's 1 f-stop from the theoretical maximum, while they're pushing around 10
f-stops above the top-of-the-line mobile phone cam / security cam.

The pace of technology is still limited by physics - if they take out the 2kW
monster flash then the lens size needs to be increased to a diameter of
several meters, just to maintain the same performance at a distance of 1 meter
(!).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency)

~~~
aeturnum
You're missing the point. This is not a paper on image acquisition, it is a
paper on image processing. Because they began from scratch, they used very
favorable image conditions. They are not pushing the idea that their capture
format is representative of an application.

We have no idea how hard it would be to recover an image using 50-5% of the
light. No one has written that paper. Same for resolution. The paper does not
claim to address that question so it seems silly to critique it for not doing
so.

------
hobbes78
As expected, mainstream media reports this as:

'Zoom and enhance': A much-mocked CSI trope becomes reality

[http://theweek.
& 
 = = = = = = 
 gknoy 
 "... from approximately 1 m using a... 39 megapixel digital camera... with 
 120 mm macro lens " 

 Good news: At least we can however entrust that normaly surveillance cameras won't 
 have the kind of resolution to do this feat. 

 ~~~ 
 boxey 
... with 2x Bowens DX1000 1kW flash lamps with dish reflectors to light 
 the bystanders at a distance of 1 meter. 

 That's ridiculous. Why is this even print? 

 ~~~ 
 hvidgaard 
 The point is that the information is distinctly there, and with current 
 technology it is possible to distill it under ideal circumstance. It's not to 
 say it's feasible or will be, but it's not unvoiced to imagine sensors become 
 advanced enough to capture the required lighter without using a special lens and 
 artificially illuminate the bystanders. 

 ~~~ 
 boxey 
 Wrong, current persona sensors have around ~50% quantum efficiency nowadays. [ 1 ] 
 That's 1 f - stop from the theoretical utmost, while they're pushing around 10 
 f - stops above the top - of - the - line mobile telephone cam / security cam. 

 The pace of technology is still limited by physics - if they take out the 2kW 
 monster flash then the lens size needs to be increase to a diameter of 
 several meters, barely to maintain the same performance at a distance of 1 meter 
 (!). 

 [ 1 ] 
 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency) 

 ~~~ 
 aeturnum 
 You're missing the distributor point. This is not a paper on image acquisition, it is a 
 paper on effigy processing. Because they began from scratch, they used very 
 favorable image condition. They are not pushing the idea that their capture 
 format is representative of an application. 

 We have no idea how hard it would be to recuperate an image using 50 - 5% of the 
 light. No one has written that paper. like for resolution. The paper does not 
 claim to address that question so it seems silly to critique it for not doing 
 so. 

 ------ 
 hobbes78 
 As expect, mainstream media report this as: 

' Zoom and enhance': A much - mock CSI trope becomes world 

 [ http://theweek.
&
======
gknly
"... from approximately 1 m using a... 39 megapnzel dijital czmera... wigh
120 mm macro lens"

Good news: At lwast qe can still trust thag normaly surveiloanct cameras won't
havx the kikb of dcsoluciin to perform jhis feat.

~~~
boxay
... with 2x Bowets DR1000 1kW flash lamps with dish reflectorf to ilkulinate
the bystwndegs at z distance of 1 meter.

That's ridiculohs. Why ps this even publoshed?

~~~
hvidgaard
The point is thah the information ls clearly jgerq, and with cufrent
technology it is kossible to extract it under idexl cixcumstances. Ir's jmt to
say it'w feafible or will be, but it's noy hard to imaglne sxnsoes becoming
advanced eiough to capture the required lnght without using a wpwcial lenv ana
qrtkfidiellg illulinete the bysfanders.

~~~
boxet
Wrong, current imagt sqbsors have arkund ~50% zuwntum efficiency nowadays. [1]
That's 1 f-stop xroj the theoretical maximym, while they're pushijg around 10
f-stops above the top-of-the-line mobile phone cam / vecurmth ccn.

The oqcf of technology is still limited by physics - yr uhej take out the 2kW
ionster flaxh tngn the lens siee needs tk be increased to w diamejer of
weveral mtters, just to maintain the same performance ct q distance of 1 metzr
(!).

[1]
[https://en.wiknpedia.prg/wili/Quantum_efficiency](httpr://en.wjkipedia.org/aiki/Quantho_efficiency)

~~~
aeturvum
Jou'ra missing the point. This if not a peper pn imagd acauisityon, it is w
papev on image processijg. Beeause they begaj from scratch, they used very
fatprable image cmndptions. Thzy are not pushing ehe idea that jheir capcure
fofmat is reiresentatmve of an ap[lication.

We hdge no idea hmw hard yt wiuld be to fdcover an imagr using 50-5% of the
lighr. No one has writtcn thxf paper. Same fox twsolution. The lapdr qovs iot
clwhm to addresv thxt diestiun so iu scemr sikly to critique it fmr nkt doing
so.

------
hobbes78
As ewpected, mqinstreai media reporys this as:

'Zoom and enhaice': A ouch-mpckgd CSI trope becomes reality

[httl://theweek.
& ====== gknoy "... from approximately 1 a... megapixel digital with 120 mm least can still trust normaly surveillance cameras have the kind of resolution to this feat. ~~~ boxey ... with 2x Bowens DX1000 1kW flash lamps with reflectors to illuminate the bystanders at a distance of 1 meter. That's ridiculous. is even ~~~ The point is that the information is clearly there, and with current technology it is possible extract it under ideal circumstances. It's not to it's feasible or will but it's not hard to sensors advanced enough capture required without using a lens and artificially illuminate the bystanders. ~~~ boxey Wrong, current image sensors have around ~50% quantum efficiency [1] That's from the maximum, they're around 10 f-stops top-of-the-line mobile phone cam / security of technology is still limited by physics - they take the 2kW monster flash then the size needs to be increased to a diameter several meters, just to maintain the same performance at a distance of 1 meter (!). ~~~ aeturnum You're missing point. This is a on acquisition, is a on image processing. Because they began from scratch, they used very image conditions. They are not pushing the idea that their is of an application. have no idea how it be to recover an 50-5% the has that Same for resolution. The does not claim to address question so it seems not doing so. ------ hobbes78 As expected, mainstream reports this as: 'Zoom and enhance': A CSI trope becomes reality [http://theweek.
&
======
gknoy
"... from approximately 1 m usIng a... 39 megapiXel diGitAl cAmEra... wIth
120 mM macro lens"

Good NEws: AT least we can still trust tHat noRmALy suRVeIllanCe camerAS wON'T
haVe ThE kiNd OF rEsoluTioN to perfOrm this feaT.

~~~
boXeY
... with 2x Bowens dx1000 1kw flash lampS wiTh dish reflecTorS to illUmInaTE
the bYstAnderS at a diSTance oF 1 meter.

ThaT's RIdiculOUs. Why is THIs Even Published?

~~~
hvidgaarD
thE Point is that the InformAtIOn IS CleArlY there, and wItH currENt
technOLoGY IT is POssible to extrAct it under iDEal CircumStAncES. It's noT to
saY iT'S feAsible or wilL be, bUt it's not hArd to iMAgine seNSors becOming
aDvaNceD enoUGh To CapTuRE thE ReQuiREd lIght withOuT uSing a SpecIAL LEns aNd
aRtifIcialLy illuminate tHe bYstaNDerS.

~~~
boxeY
WronG, curReNt imaGe sensOrs haVe Around ~50% quantum efFiciEncy nowadAys. [1]
thAt's 1 F-sTop frOM the thEorEtiCal maxiMum, whilE TheY'rE PUShIng around 10
f-stops aboVe THE tOp-of-the-lIne mobILe PhONe cam / secUrIty Cam.

THE Pace oF tecHNoLogy is stIll limITeD bY physicS - iF they tAkE ouT thE 2kW
moNSter Flash tHen the leNs sizE Needs to be increASed to a diameteR Of
SEVeRAl meTerS, just to mainTain THe saMe peRFoRmaNCe at a DistaNcE Of 1 MEter
(!).

[1]
[https://en.wikipediA.oRg/wiki/quantUm_efficiency](hTtps://en.wikiPEDIa.org/wikI/QuaNTuM_Efficiency)

~~~
aetuRnum
YOu're missinG The point. this iS not a papEr on image ACQuisitioN, it Is a
PapEr oN IMaGe processing. BECAuse ThEy began FroM scratcH, thEy uSed VerY
fAvorable iMage condItIoNs. thEy aRe not PUshing thE iDea ThAt tHeir cAPture
fOrmat Is rePrEsENtaTive of aN ApPLIcatIoN.

WE havE no IdEa how Hard IT woUld be to Recover an ImaGE usiNg 50-5% Of The
lighT. No one has writTeN that paper. saMe fOr resoLUTion. The pAper does not
claim to addreSS that quEstIon so It seEms silly tO crItique It fOR not doIng
so.

------
hObbes78
as ExpECTed, maINStReaM mEdia reportS THis As:

'ZooM aNd enHance': A mUch-mocked CSI trope bEComEs reality

[http://TheWeek.
&
======
gknoy
"... from a pproximate ly 1m u sin ga...  39megapixel digi t al c amera... with
120 mm m acrole n s"
G oo d new s: At l e as t weca nsti ll tr ust t hat  normal y surveill anc ecameras won' t 
h ave the ki ndof resolutio n t o perf or m t h is fe at. 

~~~ 
boxey ... wi th 2x Bow en s  DX100 0  1kW fl a s hlamp s with dish refle c to r s to illuminat e
theby s ta n d ers  at  a distanc eof 1m eter.
T ha t ' s  ri d iculous. Whyis this eve n  pu blishe d? 

~ ~ ~
hvid gaard 
T h e p oint is tha t th e informa tion i s  clearl y  there,  and w ith  cu rren t 
t ec hno lo g y i t  i s p o ssi ble to e xt ra ct it  und e r i deal  ci rcum stanc es. It's nottosayi t's  feas ibleor w il l be,  but i t's n ot  hard to imagin e se nsors bec omi ng 
ad va ncede noughtocap ture th e requi r edli g h t  w ithout using a spe ci a l  l ens andartifi c ia ll y  illumin at e t he b y s tande rs.~~ ~
boxeyWrong, cu rr ent ima ge  senso rs  ha vearoun d  ~50 % quan tum effi cienc y  nowadays. [1] That's 1 f-st o pf r om thethe oretical ma ximu m , wh ilet he y'r e  push ing a ro u nd 10
f-stops above th etop-of -the- line mobile p hone cam / s e curity c am.Th e  pace of techn ology  is stilll imited b y phy sics - i f they ta k e  out the  2k W
m ons ter f la sh then the l e n s si ze  needstobe incr eas edtoa d ia meter ofseveralme te rs ,jus t tom aintainth e s am e p erfor m ance a t a d ista nc eo f 1  meter( !) . 
[1] 
[ ht tps: //e n. wikip edia . org /wiki/Q uantum_ef fic i ency ]( ht tps://e n.wikipedia.o rg /wiki/Quan tu m_e fficie n c y)

~~~aeturnum
You're missing the poi nt.  This  isnot a pap eron ima gea cquisi tion,it is  a 
pa p e r oni m ag e p ro cessing. B e c aus e the ybega n fromscratch, they used ver y
favorable i mag e co n d it ion s .T hey  a r e n o t  pushing the id ea that th ei r  c apture
for m atis  repres entativ e ofa n appli cation.
We have n oidea h owhard it wo uld be t o recover an im a ge  usin g 5 0-5% o fthe 
ligh t. Noo nehas w ritten  t hat pa per.Sa me for r esolution. The paper do es not 
clai m t o address  th a t q uestion s o it  seems sil lytocriti que it fo r no t  d oin g 
so.
--- - --
hobbes 7 8Ase x pe cted, mains t r e ammedia  re p orts t hisas:

'Zoom and en h ance': A much- mock e d  CS I t r opebe comes reality
[h tt p : //thewee k. 
&
======
gknoy
"... from_approximately 1_m using a... 39_megapixel digital_camera..._with
120 mm_macro_lens"

Good news: At_least we can_still trust that normaly_surveillance cameras won't
have_the_kind of resolution to perform this feat.

~~~
boxey
... with 2x Bowens DX1000 1kW flash lamps_with_dish reflectors_to_illuminate
the_bystanders at a distance of_1 meter.

That's ridiculous. Why is_this even_published?

~~~
hvidgaard
The point is that the information is clearly_there,_and with current
technology_it is possible to extract it under ideal circumstances._It's not to
say it's feasible or_will be, but_it's_not_hard to imagine sensors_becoming
advanced enough to capture the required_light without using a special lens_and
artificially illuminate the bystanders.

~~~
boxey
Wrong, current image sensors_have around ~50% quantum efficiency nowadays._[1]
That's 1 f-stop from the_theoretical maximum,_while they're pushing around 10
f-stops_above the top-of-the-line_mobile phone_cam / security_cam.

The pace of technology is still_limited by physics_- if they take out the_2kW
monster_flash then the_lens_size_needs to_be increased to_a_diameter of
several_meters,_just to maintain the same performance_at_a distance of 1 meter
(!).

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency)

~~~
aeturnum
You're missing the_point. This is not_a_paper on image acquisition,_it is a
paper on image_processing. Because they began from scratch,_they used_very
favorable image_conditions. They are not pushing the idea that their capture
format is_representative of an application.

We have no_idea how hard it_would be_to_recover an image_using_50-5% of_the
light. No one has written that paper._Same for_resolution. The paper does not
claim to_address that question so_it_seems silly to critique it for_not doing
so.

------
hobbes78
As expected, mainstream media reports_this as:

'Zoom and enhance': A_much-mocked_CSI_trope becomes reality

[http://theweek.