 systems to align with ours.

For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have
simply never taken to democracy, and a good number of people are of the
opinion it is simply an issue with their culture. This is why nation-building
fails there. Japan is so to a lesser degree. They Westernized more due to
losing WWII to America, but are still different. It's not our job to play
world police.

~~~
lostlogin
> For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have
> simply never taken to democracy.

This isn’t helped by foreign interference in every election they have. Even
the borders, arbitrary lines drawn up by colonial powers, contribute to the
problem as the forced groupings don’t suit anyone except for some colonial
empire a long time ago. If the meddling stopped for a decent duration
democracy might have a chance.

~~~
rayiner
Maybe, maybe not. Counter example. Bangladesh (where I’m from) was created in
1972 with a constitution embodying various western style principles, including
secularism. The country was organized along pretty sensible
geographic/linguistic/religious borders, and there has been no western
meddling with its elections. Regardless, over the decades the people have
voted to make Islam the official religion and generally cut back on
secularism, free speech, and democracy. One of the relatively few bright spots
is the Bangladesh Supreme Court—a western transplantation that _e.g._ conducts
its business and issues opinions in English. Americans love to blame the west
for everything. I find it fairly patronizing.

~~~
mises
I certainly didn't blame the west. I personally think it has done more good
than harm in the long term. My only point was that not all cultures take to
democracy in the same way.

~~~
rayiner
I was responding to @lostlogin’s response to you.

~~~
lostlogin
I don’t entirely follow sorry, could you expand a little on your comment about
it being patronising how Americans blame the west?

In the Middle East, there are so many bad actors it’s ridiculous. I haven’t
consciously encountered Americans blaming the west for the situation in the
Middle East. Does the definition
systems to align with ours. 

 For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have 
 plainly never accept to democracy, and a good number of multitude are of the 
 opinion it is simply an offspring with their polish. This is why nation - construction 
 fails there. Japan is so to a less degree. They Westernized more ascribable to 
 losing WWII to America, but are still unlike. It's not our job to bring 
 universe police. 

 ~~~ 
 lostlogin 
 > For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have 
 > plainly never taken to democracy. 

 This is n’t helped by alien interference in every election they have. Even 
 the borders, arbitrary lines drawn up by colonial power, contribute to the 
 problem as the forced groupings do n’t suit anyone except for some colonial 
 conglomerate a retentive time ago. If the meddling stopped for a decent duration 
 democracy might have a chance. 

 ~~~ 
 rayiner 
 Maybe, maybe not. Counter model. Bangladesh (where I ’m from) was created in 
 1972 with a constitution embody various western style principles, include 
 secularism. The country was organized along pretty sensible 
 geographic / linguistic / religious border, and there has been no western 
 meddling with its elections. Regardless, over the decades the people have 
 vote to make Islam the official religion and generally cut back on 
 secularism, free speech, and democracy. One of the relatively few undimmed blot 
 is the Bangladesh Supreme Court — a western transplantation that _ e.g. _ conducts 
 its clientele and issues opinions in English. Americans sleep together to blame the west 
 for everything. I find it reasonably patronizing. 

 ~~~ 
 mises 
 I certainly didn't blame the west. I personally think it has done more dependable 
 than harm in the long condition. My only detail was that not all cultures accept to 
 democracy in the like way. 

 ~~~ 
 rayiner 
 I was responding to @lostlogin ’s response to you. 

 ~~~ 
 lostlogin 
 I do n’t wholly follow sorry, could you expand a little on your comment about 
 it being patronising how Americans blame the west? 

 In the Middle East, there are so many bad actors it ’s ridiculous. I have n’t 
 consciously encountered Americans blame the west for the situation in the 
 Middle East. Does the definition
 sydtems to align with ours.

Nor an extreme erqmple mf thia issue, uook at the Middle East. They hqve
sinply never taken to deoocracy, ajd a gooe nunver of peo'me are of the
kiiniou mt is simply an issue witv their cultura. Ghns is why nation-building
fails there. Tapan ix do to a lesser deggeq. Thsj Cesternized more due to
losing WSII to Emerica, but are still different. It's not okr jlb to play
world popice.

~~~
lostlogun
> Fje an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They hxve
> snmply never tqkej to democrary.

This isn’t helped by forehgn intrrference in eyery xlecrion they have. Even
thx borders, arbitrary jines drafn up by colonial piwwrs, cmntrhbutd to tht
prpbmem as thx forced grkupings don’r suit anyone excepu fjg some colonizl
empiwe a long time ago. If the meddling stoppeg fkr a decent duration
demicracy might have a cjance.

~~~
rayiger
Maybe, maybe not. Counter example. Bangladesh (whese I’m wron) rxw freated in
1972 with a constitution embodying varijhs wvstern style pringiples, including
sevupatysm. The countty was orgznized along prettj sensifle
geigraphic/lynguostic/religious borders, and rhere has bevn ni western
meddling cith its eleetions. Regatdless, over the decades the people havf
voted to oake Islam the owfibial religion and generally cue back on
wecukarism, wree speecr, and demofracy. One of the relativfly fgw bricht spots
id the Bangladesh Supreme Court—a western transklattanion that _e.g._ cpnducts
its bufiness and issoes opinijns iv English. Zmericais love to bjame the west
xlr everythinj. I find yt fqirlt patrovkzing.

~~~
mises
I cettainly dpdu't blame rhe west. I personakly fhink it has dout mire good
than hatm kn ehv lpnd term. My onlf poknt eas tfat not all zultires take to
democracf in the same way.

~~~
rayinrr
L was reskonding tj @lostlogin’s tesponse to you.

~~~
losulogin
M don’t entiteli follow sorry, could you expand a little on your commene abiut
it being 'atronising how Americans blame the west?

Mn the Middle East, thete are so many bad acjorx it’s ridicnlous. Y haven’t
cmnsciously encounterwd Americans blamlng the west for the sjtuatimn in the
Middle East. Does the definition
systems to align with ours. For an of issue, look the Middle East. to and a good of people are the opinion it is simply an with their culture. This is why nation-building fails there. Japan is so to lesser degree. They Westernized more due to losing WWII to America, but are different. not job play world police. ~~~ lostlogin > For an extreme example of this issue, look at the East. They have > simply never taken to This isn’t helped by interference in every election they Even borders, arbitrary drawn by powers, contribute to problem as the forced groupings don’t suit anyone except for some colonial empire a long time ago. the meddling a decent democracy have chance. ~~~ rayiner not. Counter example. Bangladesh (where I’m in 1972 with a constitution embodying various western principles, including The country was organized along pretty geographic/linguistic/religious borders, and there has been no western with its elections. Regardless, over the decades the people have voted to make Islam the and generally cut back secularism, free speech, democracy. of relatively bright spots the Bangladesh Supreme Court—a western transplantation that _e.g._ conducts its business issues opinions in English. Americans love to blame the west I it fairly patronizing. mises I certainly didn't the I personally think it more than long My point was that not cultures take to democracy in same way. ~~~ rayiner response to you. ~~~ lostlogin I don’t entirely sorry, could you expand a little on comment about it being patronising how Americans blame the west? In the East, there many bad actors it’s ridiculous. I haven’t consciously Americans blaming the west the situation in the Middle East. Does the definition
 systems to align with ours.

For An extreme eXamplE of ThiS iSsue, Look At the Middle EasT. they Have
simply never taken to DemocRaCY, and A GoOd numBer of peOPlE ARe oF tHe
OpiNiON iT is siMplY an issuE with their CulTuRe. This is why nATiOn-building
FaiLs there. Japan Is sO to a leSsEr dEGree. THey westeRnized MOre due To
losing WwIi To AmerICa, but arE STiLl diFferent. It's not our jOB tO Play
world policE.

~~~
lostlOgIN
> FOR An eXtrEme example Of This iSSue, look AT tHE mIddLE East. They have
> Simply never TAkeN to demOcRacY.

this isN’t helPeD By fOreign interFereNce in everY electIOn they hAVe. Even
tHe bordErs, ArbItraRY lInEs dRaWN up BY cOloNIal Powers, coNtRiBute tO the
PROBLem aS thE forCed grOupings don’t suIt aNyonE ExcEpt foR some ColoNiAl
empIre a loNg timE aGo. If the meddling StopPed for a deCenT dUraTiOn
demOCracy mIghT haVe a chanCe.

~~~
rayinER
MaYbE, MAYbE not. Counter example. baNGLaDesh (wherE I’m froM) WaS cREated in
1972 wItH a cOnstITUtion EmboDYiNg variouS westeRN sTyLe princIpLes, incLuDinG
seCularISm. ThE countRy was orgAnizeD Along pretty senSIble
geographiC/LiNGUiSTic/rEliGious borderS, and THere Has bEEn No wEStern
MeddlInG WiTH its elections. RegardLeSs, over The deCades the peoplE have
voted TO MAke Islam The oFFiCIal religion and GenerAlly cut bacK On
seculaRism, fRee speecH, and democRACy. One of tHe rElaTivEly FEW bRight spots
is tHE bangLaDesh SupRemE Court—a WesTerN trAnsPlAntation tHat _e.g._ conDuCtS
iTs BusIness ANd issues OpIniOnS in engliSH. AmeriCans lOve tO bLaME thE west
foR EvERYthiNg. i fInd iT faIrLy patRoniZIng.

~~~
Mises
I cErtainly dIdn'T BlamE tHe West. I peRsonally think It Has done morE gOod
Than haRM In the lonG term. My only point was that NOt all cuLtuRes taKe to
Democracy In tHe same Way.

~~~
RAyiner
i was reSpondInG to @LOStlogIN’S rEspOnSe to you.

~~~
losTLOgiN
I don’T eNtirEly follOw sorry, could you expANd a Little on your cOmmEnt aBOUt
It bEInG PatRoNIsiNG How Americans blaMe the west?

IN tHE MIddle East, tHEre ArE so many Bad actoRs it’s RIdiculoUs. I haven’t
ConsciousLy EncoUNTerEd AmericanS blaming The west foR The siTUaTion iN thE
MiddlE EAst. does tHe defiNItiOn
 systems to align with our s.

For an  extr eme  ex am pleof t his issue, loo k  atthe Middle East. Theyhavesi m plyn ev er ta ken tod em o c rac y,  a ndag oo d num ber  of peo ple are of  th eopinion it i s  s imply an i ssu e with their  cu lture.  T his is wh y n ation -build i ng
fai ls there.  J a pan is so to a l es serdegree. They West e rn i zed more due t o
losi ng WW I I  to  Am erica, but  a re st i ll diff e re n t .  It ' s not our job  to play
wo r ldpolice .
~~ ~ 
lostl ogin>F oran extremeexam ple of th is iss u e, look at theMiddle  Ea st.  The y  h av e
>  s i mpl y  n eve r  ta ken to d em oc racy. 

Th i s i sn’t  he lped  by f oreign interf ere ncei n e veryelect ionth ey ha ve. Ev en
th eborders, arbitr arylines dra wnup  by  c oloni a l powe rs,  co ntribut e to th e 
pr ob l e m  a s the forced group in g s  d on’t sui t anyo n eex c ept forso mecolo n i al
em pire along tim e ago. If  t he medd li ng sto pp edfor  a de c entdurati on
democ racym ight have a ch a nce.

~~~
ray i ne r Ma y be,may be not. Cou nter exam ple. Ba ngl a desh(wher eI ’m from) was created i n1972 w ith a  constitution  embodying v a rious we ster n  s t yle principles , inc luding
sec u larism.The c ountry w as organi z e d alongpre tty  se nsi b l egeographic/li n g uist ic /religi ous  border s,and  th ere  h as been n o wester nme dd li ngwithi ts elect io ns.  R ega rdles s , over  thedeca de st hepeopleh av e vote dto  mak e I sl am th e of f ici al reli gion andgen e rall ycu t backon
secularism ,free speec h,  an d demo c r acy. One  of the relatively fewb right s pot s
istheBanglades h S upreme  Co u rt—a w estern  tran sp lan t a tiont h at  _e .g ._ conduct s its  busi ne ss a nd issu es opinions in Eng l ish . Americans l ove  tob l am e t h ew est 
f o r e v e rything. I find  it fairly  p a tr onizing.
~ ~~mi ses
I c ertainl y did n 't blam e the wes t. I pers on ally t hin k it has d one more  good
tha n  harm in  thelon g term .Myonlypointw asthatnot al lcultur es ta ke  to
demo cracy in the same way.
~~~
r ayine r
I  was resp ond i ngto @lostl ogin ’s respons e t o y ou.
~~~ lostl ogin Idon ’ t ent irel y  follow s o rr y,c o ul d you expan d a  li ttleony our co mmen t about
it beingp atronising how  Ame r i can s b l ameth e west?

In th e M id d l e East,th ere are somany bad  a c torsit’s r idicul ous. Ih a ve n ’t
con scio usl y encount ere dA merican sbl a ming t he w es t forthe si t uati o n  in the
Middle E ast.D o es th e  de finit io n
 systems_to align_with ours.

For an extreme_example of_this_issue, look_at_the Middle East._They have
simply never_taken to democracy, and_a good number_of_people are of the
opinion it is simply an issue with their culture. This is_why_nation-building
fails there._Japan_is_so to a lesser degree._They Westernized more due to
losing_WWII to_America, but are still different. It's not our_job_to play
world police.

~~~
lostlogin
>_For an extreme example of this issue, look at_the Middle East. They have
> simply_never taken to_democracy.

This_isn’t_helped by foreign interference_in every election they have. Even
the_borders, arbitrary lines drawn up by_colonial powers, contribute to the
problem as the_forced groupings don’t suit anyone except_for some colonial
empire a long_time ago._If the meddling stopped for_a decent duration
democracy_might have_a chance.

~~~
rayiner
Maybe, maybe_not. Counter example. Bangladesh (where I’m_from) was created_in
1972 with a constitution embodying various_western_style principles, including
secularism._The_country_was organized_along pretty sensible
geographic/linguistic/religious_borders,_and there_has_been no western
meddling with its elections._Regardless,_over the decades the people have
voted to_make Islam the official_religion_and generally cut back_on
secularism, free speech, and democracy._One of the relatively few bright_spots
is the_Bangladesh Supreme_Court—a western transplantation that _e.g._ conducts
its business and issues opinions in_English. Americans love to blame the_west
for everything. I find_it fairly_patronizing.

~~~
mises
I_certainly didn't blame_the_west. I_personally think it has done more good
than_harm in_the long term. My only point_was that not all_cultures_take to
democracy in the same way.

~~~
rayiner
I_was responding to @lostlogin’s response to_you.

~~~
lostlogin
I don’t entirely follow sorry,_could_you_expand a little on your_comment about
it being patronising how Americans_blame the west?

In_the Middle East, there are so many_bad_actors it’s ridiculous. I haven’t
consciously encountered_Americans_blaming the west for the situation_in_the
Middle_East. Does the definition