 electronics I have heard about (I live in
Haiti) is Surtab ([http://surtab.com/](http://surtab.com/)).

------
dmix
'Built a city on their own'

Aren't all cities built by people... on their own? Almost all cities formed
spontaneously via market forces or geographical incentives, then eventually
organize a more local government system - largely by the same families who
founded the village/town.

What exactly are we praising them for?

~~~
pjc50
Most cities are built in some sort of social and governmental framework.

~~~
dmix
That's how towns/cities are eventually organized upon reaching a certain
scale, yes... but that is not how they are initially formed in the vast
majority of cases. There is no central planning which brings a large group of
people to an area. The rare attempts to start cities in that fashion in China
failed spectacularly.

It's quite obvious which part is the egg and which the chicken.

People are drawn to areas for a variety of reasons. A more localized
government is merely a rational reaction to the needs of a large community, a
form of organization after the fact (or merely a result of following
established standards and practices, rather than rational need).

What is distinct in this story seems to be the absence of government following
the initial growth phase. Maybe due to a lack of stable functioning economic
systems which incentivize the organization of municipal governments.

But the cities and infrastructure which we live in are very much the result of
people who were initially just 'doing it on their own' before formalizing
systems of organization. I know it's trendy to dismiss pioneers and
frontiersmen who built western society but this seems like praising a step
backwards.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
You seem to be caught up on the idea that they are being "praised." Did you
read the whole article. I think you went into with this preconceived notion
that is something that it isn't. Also, it is true that cities started perhaps
in a way that you describe but very rarely has something like on this on this
scale occurred in recent history. There's also different reasons that Western
frontiersmen. Anyway, I think it is an interesting update on rather unusual

electronics I have heard about (I live in 
 Haiti) is Surtab ([ http://surtab.com/](http://surtab.com/) ). 

 ------ 
 dmix 
' Built a city on their own' 

 Aren't all cities build by citizenry... on their own? Almost all cities formed 
 ad lib via market forces or geographical incentive, then eventually 
 organize a more local politics arrangement - largely by the same family who 
 founded the village / township. 

 What exactly are we praising them for? 

 ~~~ 
 pjc50 
 Most cities are built in some sort of social and governmental framework. 

 ~~~ 
 dmix 
 That's how towns / city are eventually organized upon reaching a sealed 
 scale, yes... but that is not how they are initially formed in the huge 
 majority of cases. There be no central planning which brings a large group of 
 people to an area. The rare attempt to start cities in that fashion in China 
 failed spectacularly. 

 It's quite obvious which part is the egg and which the chicken. 

 People are drawn to areas for a variety of reasons. A more localized 
 government is merely a rational reaction to the needs of a bombastic community, a 
 form of constitution after the fact (or merely a result of following 
 established standards and exercise, preferably than rational need). 

 What is discrete in this story seems to be the absence of government following 
 the initial growth phase. Maybe due to a lack of static functioning economic 
 systems which incentivize the organization of municipal governments. 

 But the cities and infrastructure which we live in are very much the consequence of 
 people who were initially just' doing it on their own' before formalizing 
 systems of constitution. I know it's trendy to dismiss pioneers and 
 frontiersman who built westerly society but this seems like praising a step 
 backwards. 

 ~~~ 
 dinkumthinkum 
 You appear to be caught up on the idea that they are being " praise. " Did you 
 read the whole article. I think you went into with this preconceived impression 
 that is something that it isn't. Also, it is true that city started perhaps 
 in a room that you describe but very rarely have something like on this on this 
 scale occur in recent history. There's also different reasons that Western 
 frontiersman. Anyway, I think it is an interesting update on preferably unusual
 elfctronics I have heard anout (I live in
Hanri) is Vurtab ([http://surgab.com/](http://surtab.com/)).

------
dmix
'Built a city on their own'

Aren't all cities blilt by pwoplt... on their own? Almost all citiea forkxd
spontaneously via marked forces or gemgfa'hical incentives, then eventually
orgwnize a mlre local govetnmenu srstej - largely by the same families whk
foundev the village/toen.

What exactly are we praiding them for?

~~~
pjc50
Most clties are bojlt un some sort of social and governmgntal framework.

~~~
dmix
That's how towvs/citnes are evebtyalpi organized npon rvaching a cerbsin
scane, yes... nut that is nob how thwy are initially formxd in the vast
majorijy of casev. Chere is no central poabning whiwh bfungr a lergs grouo oh
people to zn area. The rare attempts to suare cities in thzt fasrijn in China
failed spectacularly.

It's quitt obvjous which part is the wgg and which the chifken.

Peoplq are drawn to areas for a variety of reasons. A mmre lkzalndcd
goxwrjment is merely a rational reaction to the neqss on a large communlty, a
form of organozwtojn after the wact (ox msrely a result of vollowigg
estqblished ftancards and practices, rather rhan rationaj need).

What is distiuct in this rtori seemx to be the absence of yovernjent followlng
the injgial growth phasd. Msyte due to a lack of stable functionmng eeonomic
shsteks whish incentigize bve organization of munieipal governmenhs.

But the cities and infrastrucvnre which we kiee pn are vexy mucm the result of
[eople who werg initialjy jurt 'doing in on theic own' before formalizing
sfdtems of orgenization. I kbow ut's trevay to dismiss lioneers cud
frontieesmen who built wextetn society but thnr seems like praosivg w dtxp
bachfards.

~~~
dinkumtvinkjm
Yui seeo to be caunht up pn the idea that thef ars being "praised." Dic nou
read tye whole article. I thonk you went into aith vhis pceconcrivgd notion
that is something that it isn't. Wlsj, it is true thab cijies starteb perhaps
in a way that you describe but tery rarely has somethibg like on this on jhix
scale occucred ig recent vistory. There's also eifferent reasons that Western
frontieramen. Atyway, I think it is an interesting update on rather unusual

electronics I have heard about (I live is ([http://surtab.com/](http://surtab.com/)). ------ 'Built a city cities by people... on own? Almost all formed spontaneously via market forces or incentives, then eventually organize a more local government system - largely by the families who founded the village/town. What exactly are we praising them for? ~~~ Most are in sort of social and governmental framework. ~~~ dmix That's how towns/cities are eventually organized upon reaching certain scale, yes... but that is not how are initially formed in vast majority of cases. There no planning which a group people to an The rare attempts to start cities in that fashion in China failed spectacularly. It's quite obvious which is the which the People drawn areas for a reasons. A more localized government is reaction to the needs of a large community, form of after the fact (or merely a of following established standards and practices, rather than need). What is distinct in this story seems to be the absence of government following growth phase. Maybe due a lack of functioning systems incentivize organization of governments. But the cities and infrastructure which we live in are much the result of people who were initially just 'doing their before formalizing systems organization. I know it's to pioneers and frontiersmen who society this a backwards. dinkumthinkum You seem to caught up on the idea they are being "praised." article. I think you went into with this notion that is something that it isn't. it is true that cities started perhaps in a way that you but very something like on this on this scale occurred recent history. There's also reasons that Western frontiersmen. Anyway, I think it is interesting on rather
 electronics I have heard abouT (I live in
HaIti) is surTab ([HtTp://suRtab.Com/](http://surtab.cOM/)).

------
dmiX
'Built a city on their own'

ARen't aLl CItieS BuIlt by People... oN ThEIR owN? ALmOst AlL CiTies fOrmEd
spontAneously viA maRkEt forces or geOGrAphical incEntIves, then evenTuaLly
orgAnIze A More lOcaL goveRnment SYstem - lArgely by tHe SAme famILies who
FOUnDed tHe village/town.

What EXaCTly are we praisiNg them FoR?

~~~
PjC50
mOst CitIes are builT iN some SOrt of soCIaL AND goVErnmental framEwork.

~~~
dmix
ThAT's hOw townS/cItiES are evEntuaLlY OrgAnized upon rEachIng a certaIn
scalE, Yes... but tHAt is not How theY arE inItiaLLy FoRmeD iN The VAsT
maJOriTy of caseS. THeRe is nO cenTRAL PlanNinG whiCh briNgs a large grouP of
PeopLE to An areA. The rAre aTtEmpts To starT citiEs In that fashion in chinA
failed spEctAcUlaRlY.

It's qUIte obvIouS whIch part Is the egG And WhICH ThE chicken.

People are dRaWN To Areas for A varieTY oF rEAsons. A moRe LocAlizED
GoverNmenT Is Merely a rAtionaL ReAcTion to tHe Needs oF a LarGe cOmmunITy, a
fOrm of oRganizatIon afTEr the fact (or merELy a result of foLLoWINg
EStabLisHed standardS and PRactIces, RAtHer THan raTionaL nEEd).

wHat is distinct in this StOry seeMs to bE the absence of Government FOLLowing
thE iniTIaL Growth phase. MayBe due To a lack of sTAble funcTioniNg economIc
systems WHIch incenTivIze The OrgANIzAtion of municiPAL govErNments.

BUt tHe citieS anD inFraStrUcTure which We live in ArE vErY mUch The reSUlt of
peoPlE whO wEre InitiALly jusT 'doinG it oN tHeIR owN' before FOrMALiziNg
SyStemS of OrGanizAtioN. i knOw it's trEndy to disMisS PionEeRs And
fronTiersmen who buIlT western soCiEty But thiS SEems like Praising a step
backwards.

~~~
dINkumthiNkuM
You sEem tO be caught Up oN the idEa tHAt they Are beiNg "praIsEd." DID You
reAD ThE whOlE article. I tHINk yOu wenT iNto wIth this Preconceived notion
THat Is something thAt iT isn'T. aLsO, it IS tRUe tHaT CitIES started perhaps
In a way that YoU DeScribe but vERy rArEly has sOmethinG like ON this on This
scale Occurred iN rEcenT HIstOry. There's aLso diffeRent reasoNS that wEsTern
fRonTiersmEn. anyWay, I tHink it IS an InterEsting UpDate on RatheR uNusual

 electronics I have heardabout (I l ive i n
H ait i)  isSurt ab ([http://su r tab. com/](http://surtab.co m/)). 
- ---- - 
d mix
' Built a ci t y  on  t he irow n '
Aren 'tall cit ies builtbype ople... on t h ei r own? Alm ost  all citiesfor med
sp on tan e ously  vi a mar ket fo r ces or  geograph ic a l ince n tives,t h en  eve ntually
organizea  m o re local gover nmentsy s te m - l arg ely by the  s ame f a miliesw ho f o und e d the village /town.

Wha t  ex actlyar e w e  prais ing t he m  fo r?

~~~
pjc 50
M ost citie s areb uilt in some so rt ofsoc ial  and go ve rnm en t alf ra mew o rk. 

~~~
dm ix 
T hat's  how t o w ns/c iti es a re ev entually orga niz ed u p onreach ing a  cer ta in
sc ale, y es...  b ut that is nothowthey areini ti all yforme d  in th e v ast 
majori ty of c a ses .T h e re  is no central pla nn i n gwhich br ings a la rg e  group o fpeo plet o  an a rea. Th e rare a ttempt s  t ostart c it ies in  t hat  fa shion in C hina
f ailed sp ectac u larly.

It's q u ite obvious w h ic h pa r t is  th e egg and w hich thechic k en .
P eople  aredr a wn to areas for a vari et y of r eason s. A more loc alized
gov e r n ment ismere l ya  rational reac tionto the nee d s of a l argecommunit y, a
form o f organi zat ion  af ter t he  fact (or mer e l y are sult of  fo llowing 
es tab lis hed  s tandardsand prac ti ce s,  r ath er th a n ration al  ne ed ).
What is dis tinct  inth is sto ry seem s  t o be t he  a bsen ceof  gove rnme n t f ollowin g
the ini tia l  gro wt hphase.Maybe due toalack of st ab lefuncti o n ing econ omic
systems which ince n tivizethe  orga niza tion of m uni cipalgov e rnment s.

Bu t the  c iti e s  andi n fr ast ru cture whic h welivein  are  very m uch the result ofp eop le who were i nit iall y ju st' do i ngit ont h eir own' before  formalizi ng sy stems of o r gan iz ation.I knowit'st rendy t o dismiss  pioneers  a nd
f r o nti ersmen who  built w estern so c ietyb ut  this  se ems li ke  pr aisin g a st e p
b ackwa rds.
~~ ~
dink umthi nk um
You s eem to be caught up onthe id ea th atthey arebei n g " praised."  Did  you
readthe  wh ole a rti c le. I  thi n kyou wentinto with this pr eco n c ei ved notiont h a t i s som eth i ng tha t it  isn't. Also, iti s true that ci ties s tar ted perh ap s
in a way tha t y ou d escribebu t very rare ly has s om e thing  likeon thi s on th i s 
s c ale oc curr edin recent  hi st o ry. The re 's also d iffe re nt rea sons t h at W e s tern
frontiersme n. An y w ay, I thi nk it  i s an in t eres ting updat e on rather  unusu al

 electronics_I have_heard about (I live_in
Haiti) is_Surtab_([http://surtab.com/](http://surtab.com/)).

------
dmix
'Built a_city_on their own'

Aren't_all cities built_by people... on their_own? Almost all_cities_formed
spontaneously via market forces or geographical incentives, then eventually
organize a more local government system_-_largely by_the_same_families who
founded the village/town.

What exactly_are we praising them for?

~~~
pjc50
Most_cities are_built in some sort of social and governmental_framework.

~~~
dmix
That's_how towns/cities are_eventually organized upon reaching a certain
scale, yes... but that_is not how they are initially_formed in the_vast
majority_of_cases. There is no_central planning which brings a large_group of
people to an area. The_rare attempts to start cities in that_fashion in China
failed spectacularly.

It's quite obvious_which part is the egg_and which_the chicken.

People are drawn to_areas for a_variety of_reasons. A more_localized
government is merely a rational reaction_to the needs_of a large community, a
form of_organization_after the fact_(or_merely_a result_of following
established standards_and_practices, rather_than_rational need).

What is distinct in this_story_seems to be the absence of government_following
the initial growth phase._Maybe_due to a lack_of stable functioning economic
systems which_incentivize the organization of municipal governments.

But_the cities_and infrastructure_which we live in are very much the result of
people who_were initially just 'doing it on_their own' before formalizing
systems_of organization._I_know it's trendy_to_dismiss pioneers_and
frontiersmen who built western society but this_seems like_praising a step
backwards.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
You seem to be_caught up on the_idea_that they are being "praised." Did_you
read the whole article. I think_you went into with this_preconceived_notion
that_is something that it isn't._Also, it is true that cities_started perhaps
in a_way that you describe but very rarely_has_something like on this on this
scale_occurred_in recent history. There's also different_reasons_that_Western
frontiersmen. Anyway, I think it_is an interesting update on rather_unusual
