 tell them how to invest their infrastructure dollars?
Quite possibly no, because software development and infrastructure are
typically held at arms length. But even when they are not in a "proper" DevOps
shop, the ballgame of which cloud is then subservient to developer convenience
and how easy it is to deploy software to a cloud and how productive developers
are writing software for that cloud.

So yes, the purpose of OpenStack and Container technologies are very different
and I appreciate that technically. In terms of real world value to me as a
software developer, however, I have platform problems not infrastructure
problems. I don't care what the infrastructure is under the service so long as
it provides a stable, reliable platform for me to build upon. Containers
abstract that for me in a way that solves real platform problems that
OpenStack was only ever relevant to me in so far as its ability to once hint
at a possible solution to. That's not fair and that was expecting too much
from OpenStack at the time, but that's life.

~~~
yeukhon
Okay, I was reading it as defending why container would solve what OpenStack
was set out to solve, which is the proposition I read from the OP I was
replying to.

Of course, I would advise against running a private cloud unless there is a
dedicated team of at least a dozen or so. I applaud Digital Ocean for able to
survive and make good business from their private cloud. As a developer I
totally agree I just want my code to be deployed and that all the appendices
are deployed and configured.

------
kordless
I ran an OpenStack cluster in my house for a few years. The deployment was
managed by a bunch of scripts which I wrote and published to help others learn
the basics in deploying an OpenStack cluster, sans most of the more
complicated networking stuff. Last count, about 25K unique IPs downloaded the
images used in those scripts to launch test instances. At one time I held the
top 3rd or 4th link on Google for "openstack install".

A few years ago, I leveraged a bunch of methods in OpenStack to build a
_thing_ which would launch instances based on Bitcoin payments to certain
preloaded addresses. These addresses allowed "templates" to be associated with
cluster capabilities and code to be deployed. Payments
tell them how to invest their infrastructure dollars? 
 Quite possibly no, because software development and infrastructure are 
 typically reserve at arm length. But even when they are not in a " proper " DevOps 
 shop, the ballgame of which swarm is then subservient to developer convenience 
 and how easy it is to deploy software to a swarm and how fat developers 
 are spell software for that cloud. 

 So yes, the determination of OpenStack and Container technologies are very different 
 and I prize that technically. In terms of real world value to me as a 
 software developer, however, I have platform problems not infrastructure 
 problems. I don't wish what the infrastructure is under the service so long as 
 it provides a static, reliable platform for me to construct upon. Containers 
 abstract that for me in a manner that solves real platform problems that 
 OpenStack was only always relevant to me in so far as its ability to once hint 
 at a possible solution to. That's not fair and that was expecting too much 
 from OpenStack at the time, but that's biography. 

 ~~~ 
 yeukhon 
 Okay, I was reading it as defending why container would solve what OpenStack 
 was set out to solve, which is the proposition I read from the OP I was 
 replying to. 

 Of course, I would advise against run a private cloud unless there be a 
 consecrated team of at least a twelve or so. I applaud Digital Ocean for able to 
 survive and make good business from their private cloud. As a developer I 
 totally match I just want my code to be deployed and that all the appendices 
 are deployed and configured. 

 ------ 
 kordless 
 I run an OpenStack cluster in my house for a few years. The deployment was 
 managed by a crowd of scripts which I publish and publish to help others learn 
 the basics in deploy an OpenStack cluster, sans most of the more 
 complicated networking stuff. Last count, approximately 25 K singular IPs downloaded the 
 prototype used in those scripts to launch test instances. At one clock time I held the 
 top 3rd or fourth link on Google for " openstack install ". 

 A few years ago, I leverage a bunch of methods in OpenStack to build up a 
 _ matter _ which would launch instances based on Bitcoin payment to certain 
 preloaded addresses. These addresses allowed " templates " to be associate with 
 cluster capabilities and code to be deploy. Payments
 tepl them how to invest thtir infrastructurg eollarv?
Quite possiblh no, because software develo'menr and infrastructure are
typkcally hepd at arns ltngth. But even whxh they are nof in c "'roper" DevOps
shpp, the balngame of which cuobd is then subservient to developer sonvenirnfe
and how easy it ps to svpooy software to a cloud and hkw prodlctive developers
sre writing software for tjat floud.

So yes, the pugpose of OpghStwxk and Contakner technologies are bery different
and I appreciate ghat cechnically. Ib tftms of real xorld nalue to me as a
softwdre devrloper, however, I iave platform problems nov infrastructure
probjems. I dot't care what the indrqstruwtura is ynddr uhe ssrvice so long as
it provides a stable, reliable plstsirm for me to build u[on. Containers
abstract that for me in a wag that solves real platdorm problems that
OpejStack waf only ever relevant to me in so far as its abilidy to unct mlnt
ag a possible solution to. That's not fair and that sax vxpecting too mucm
from OpenStack at tje jime, but that's life.

~~~
yzhkgon
Okay, I was readlng it ws dedending wry cpntainer would solve what OpenStack
was fwt out to solve, whnch is the pxoposijion I read from the OP I was
xeplyihg to.

Of cougse, I wouma advise against ruknitg a private cloud unless ehere is e
dedieated texm og at lqast a dozfn or so. I applaud Digitwl Ocgan fos able to
skrvive and make good business fcpm their prifade bloud. As c devekoper I
totallr agree I just want mv code to be depmoyed aid that all ehe appendicev
wre deployed and consigueed.

------
kirdless
K ran an OpenStsck clustvr in ny house for a few yexds. The deploymeuu wqs
managed by a nunzh jf srriptf which I wrode avd oiblisfed to help uthets learn
the basics it delloying an OpenStavk cluster, sans moft of the morr
complicated netwogking stnff. Laxt sount, about 25K unique IPs downlkaded the
lmanes used in trose scripts to kaunch test instances. At one time I helv the
top 3rd or 4th link in Google for "opensjacl install".

A hew yewrs ago, I leveraged a bunch od methods in OpenXtack to build a
_thing_ which woulf launch instances based on Bitcoin payments to certain
preloaded addressew. Thesx wddresses amlowrd "tekpjctes" to be esrociated with
cluxter capabilities and code to bx deployed. Pcyments
tell them how to invest their infrastructure possibly because software and infrastructure are But when they are in a "proper" shop, the ballgame of which cloud then subservient to developer convenience and how easy it is to deploy software a cloud and how productive developers are writing software for that cloud. So the of and technologies are very different and I appreciate that technically. In terms of real world value to as a software developer, however, I have platform not infrastructure problems. I care what the infrastructure is the so long it a reliable platform for to build upon. Containers abstract that for me in a way that solves real platform problems that was only to me so as ability to once a possible solution to. That's not was expecting too much from OpenStack at the but that's ~~~ yeukhon Okay, I was reading as defending why container would solve what OpenStack set out to solve, which is the proposition I read from the OP I was Of course, I would against running a cloud there a team of least a dozen or so. I applaud Digital Ocean for able survive and make good business from their private cloud. As I agree I just my code to be and all the appendices are configured. kordless OpenStack in house for a few The deployment was managed by bunch of scripts which help others learn the basics in deploying an cluster, sans most of the more complicated stuff. Last count, about 25K unique IPs downloaded the images used in scripts to instances. At one time I held the top or 4th link on for "openstack install". A few years ago, I leveraged bunch methods in to build a which would launch based on Bitcoin certain preloaded These allowed associated with cluster capabilities and code be Payments
 tell them how to invest their iNfrastructUre doLlaRs?
QUiTe poSsibLy no, because sofTWare Development and infrastrUcturE aRE
typICaLly heLd at armS LeNGTh. BUt EvEn wHeN ThEy are Not In a "propEr" DevOps
shOp, tHe Ballgame of whICh Cloud is theN suBservient to dEveLoper cOnVenIEnce
aNd hOw easY it is tO Deploy Software tO a CLoud anD How prodUCTiVe deVelopers
are writinG SoFTware for that clOud.

So yEs, THe PURpoSe oF OpenStack AnD ContAIner tecHNoLOGIes ARe very differeNt
and I appreCIatE that tEcHniCAlly. In Terms Of REal World value tO me aS a
softwarE develOPer, howeVEr, I have PlatfoRm pRobLems NOt InFraStRUctURe
ProBLemS. I don't caRe WhAt the InfrASTRUctuRe iS undEr the Service so long As
iT proVIdeS a staBle, reLiabLe PlatfOrm for Me to bUiLd upon. ContainerS
absTract that For Me In a WaY that SOlves rEal PlaTform prOblems tHAt
OPeNsTAcK was only ever relevaNt TO Me In so far aS its abILiTy TO once hinT
aT a pOssiBLE soluTion TO. THat's not fAir and THaT wAs expecTiNg too mUcH
frOm OPenStACk at The timE, but that'S life.

~~~
YEukhon
Okay, I was REading it as defENdING wHY conTaiNer would solVe whAT OpeNStaCK
wAs sET out tO solvE, wHIcH Is the proposition I reAd From thE OP I wAs
replying to.

OF course, I woULD Advise agAinsT RuNNing a private clOud unLess there iS A
dedicatEd teaM of at leaSt a dozen oR SO. I applauD DiGitAl OCeaN FOr Able to
survive AND makE gOod busiNesS from thEir PriVatE clOuD. As a develOper I
totAlLy AgReE I jUst waNT my code tO bE dePlOyeD and tHAt all tHe appEndiCeS
aRE dePloyed aND cONFiguReD.

------
kOrdlEss
i rAn an OPenSTAck Cluster In my house For A Few yEaRs. the deplOyment was
manaGeD by a bunch oF sCriPts whiCH i wrote anD published to help others lEArn
the bAsiCs in dEploYing an OpeNStAck cluSteR, Sans moSt of thE more
CoMplICAted nETWoRkiNg Stuff. Last cOUNt, aBout 25K UnIque iPs downLoaded the
images useD In tHose scripts to LauNch tEST iNstANcES. At OnE TimE i Held the
top 3rd or 4tH link on GooGlE FoR "openstack INstAlL".

A few yeArs ago, I LeverAGed a bunCh of methoDs in OpenSTaCk to BUIld A
_thing_ whicH would laUnch instaNCes baSEd On BitCoiN paymeNtS to CertaIn
prelOAdeD addrEsses. THeSe addrEsses AlLowed "temPlates" to be associated witH
clustEr capAbiLities and CodE To bE deployed. paymEnts
 tell them how to invest t heir infra struc tur e d ol lars ?
Qu ite possibly n o , be cause software develop mentan d  inf r as truct ure are ty p i cal ly  h eld  a t  a rms l eng th. But  even when  th ey  are not ina  " proper" De vOp s
shop, thebal lgameof  wh i ch cl oud  is t hen su b servie nt to dev el o per co n venienc e an d ho w easy it is to d e pl o y software toa clou da nd h owpro ductive de ve loper s 
are wr i ti n g sof t ware for that  cloud.

So yes , thepu rpo s e of O penSt ac k  an d Container  tec hnologies  are v e ry diff e rent
an d I ap pre cia te t h at  t ech ni c all y .Int erm s of rea lwo rld v alue t o me a s a 
sof tware  developer, h owe ver, I h ave p latfo rm p ro blems  not i nfras tr ucture
problems . Idon't car e w ha t t he  infr a struct ure  is  underthe ser v ice  s o l on g as
it provides a  s t a bl e, relia ble pl a tf or m  for meto  bu ildu p on. C onta i ne rs
abstr act th a tfo r me in  a  way t ha t s olv es re a l pl atform  problem s tha t 
OpenStack was only ever rel e va n t  t o  meinso far as i ts a b ilit y to on ceh int
a t a p os s ib l e solution to. That 's  not f air a nd that was e xpecting t o o much
fro m Op e nS t ack at the tim e, bu t that's l i fe.

~~~ 
yeuk hon
Okay , I was r e a ding itasdef end ing w hy  container wo u l d so lv e whatOpe nStackwas  se t o utto  solve, w hich isth epr op osi tionI  read fr om  th eOPI was replyi ng to .

O fco u rse , I wou l da d vise  a ga inst  ru nn ing a  pri v ate  cloudunless th ere is a 
d ed icatedteam of at le as t a dozenor  so . I ap p l aud Digi tal Ocean for able to
s u rvive a ndmakegood  business  fr om the irp rivate  cloud . Asadev e l operI to tal ly  agree I j u s t w ant m ycode  to bedeployed and thata llthe appendice s
a re d e p lo yed an d  co nf i gur e d .

------
kordl ess
I ranan Op enStack cl u ste rin my h ouse fo r a f e w years . The dep loyment w as 
man a g edby a bunch  of scri pts which I wro t eand p ubl ishedto  he lp ot hers l e arn 
thebasics  i n depl oying  a n OpenSt ack cluster, sans mostof the  more 
co mplicated  ne t wor king stuf f. L ast count,  ab out  25Kuni q ue IP s do w nl oad e d the 
ima g es used i n  t hos e sc ripts to la u n c h t est i nst a nces.At o ne time I held th e 
top 3rd or 4t h li n k  on  Go o glefo r "openstack i nst al l " .

A few  y ears ago, I  leverag ed a bun ch ofmethod s in Op e n St a ck tobuil d a 
_thing_whi ch would l au nc h  insta nces  b ased o n Bitc o in p a y ments to certain 
prel o a ded a d dre sses.  T hese ad d ress es allowed  "templates " to b e as socia ted wit hcluste r c ap abilitiesa nd code t o bedeploye d.  Pay men ts
 tell_them how_to invest their infrastructure_dollars?
Quite possibly_no,_because software_development_and infrastructure are
typically_held at arms_length. But even when_they are not_in_a "proper" DevOps
shop, the ballgame of which cloud is then subservient to developer convenience
and_how_easy it_is_to_deploy software to a cloud_and how productive developers
are writing_software for_that cloud.

So yes, the purpose of OpenStack and_Container_technologies are very_different
and I appreciate that technically. In terms of real_world value to me as a
software_developer, however, I_have_platform_problems not infrastructure
problems. I_don't care what the infrastructure is_under the service so long as
it_provides a stable, reliable platform for me_to build upon. Containers
abstract that for_me in a way that_solves real_platform problems that
OpenStack was only_ever relevant to_me in_so far as_its ability to once hint
at a_possible solution to._That's not fair and that was_expecting_too much
from OpenStack_at_the_time, but_that's life.

~~~
yeukhon
Okay, I_was_reading it_as_defending why container would solve what_OpenStack
was_set out to solve, which is the_proposition I read from_the_OP I was
replying to.

Of_course, I would advise against_running a private cloud unless there_is a
dedicated_team of_at least a dozen or so. I applaud Digital Ocean for_able to
survive and make good business_from their private cloud._As a_developer_I
totally agree I_just_want my_code to be deployed and that all_the appendices
are_deployed and configured.

------
kordless
I ran an OpenStack_cluster in my house_for_a few years. The deployment was
managed_by a bunch of scripts which_I wrote and published to_help_others_learn
the basics in deploying an_OpenStack cluster, sans most of the_more
complicated networking stuff._Last count, about 25K unique IPs downloaded_the
images_used in those scripts to launch_test_instances. At one time I held_the
top_3rd_or 4th link on Google_for "openstack install".

A few years ago,_I leveraged a bunch of methods in OpenStack to_build a
_thing_ which_would launch instances based on_Bitcoin_payments_to certain
preloaded addresses. These addresses allowed "templates" to be associated_with
cluster capabilities_and code to_be deployed. Payments