 you to
domicile your company as a Canadian owned private corporation (e.g., no
Delaware corporations) and it is notorious for being beuraucratic and it
clearly favours larger established companies over true startups. The
government has failed miserably at incentivizing startups. This latest pitch
seems to be based on nothing more than dusting off the old canard of Canada
being more "multi-cultural" than the US, and using Donald Trump to attract
startup entrepreneurs? This coming from the institutions that gave us Stephen
Harper and Rob Ford? These gimmicks are more of an indication that they're not
serious abot incentivizing startups, they are just trying to score political
points at home.

~~~
altotrees
My uncle is an engineer in Toronto, and often speaks positively of the startup
scene in parts of Canada. I know Waterloo loses quite a few grads to the Bay
Area and other major U.S. cities, but haven't some companies actually
relocated to be closer to the scene there? I am thinking Pivotal Labs and
Google off the top of my head.

I am genuinely curious on your take, since you seem to have direct knowledge.
I have seen many people say things in the same vein, but also hear positive
things from people in Canada and outsiders as well.

~~~
gavingmiller
I can speak a bit for western canada; Vancouver has seen many of the
larger/top companies open offices: Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc. so plenty
of jobs to be had there. I live in Calgary and have seen many peers move to
Vancouver for better job prospects.

Re: SRED credits - I've been a part of the application process twice.
Documentation can be a bit cumbersome, but not much more than 5 minutes
summarizing the weeks work in a spreadsheet (for each employee), and tracking
their hours spent on related tasks. Add in source control and the numerous
artifacts that software devs come up with, means low amount of effort for high
payout. And by high payout, I'm talking 1-2 devs salary in a 10 dev shop. We
also hired a consulting company that specialized in SRED applications which
saved us a ton of overhead. Cost 10-20% of payout, but was worth not having to
deal with
you to 
 domicile your company as a Canadian owned private pot (for example, no 
 Delaware pot) and it is notorious for being beuraucratic and it 
 intelligibly privilege larger established caller over true startups. The 
 politics has fail miserably at incentivizing startups. This late pitch 
 seems to be base on nothing more than dust off the old canard of Canada 
 being more " multi - cultural " than the US, and using Donald Trump to attract 
 startup entrepreneurs? This coming from the institutions that contribute us Stephen 
 Harper and Rob Ford? These gimmicks are more of an indication that they're not 
 serious abot incentivizing inauguration, they are just trying to score political 
 points at dwelling. 

 ~~~ 
 altotrees 
 My uncle is an engineer in Toronto, and often speaks positively of the startup 
 scene in parts of Canada. I acknowledge Waterloo loses quite a few grads to the Bay 
 Area and other major U.S. cities, but haven't some companies actually 
 relocated to be closer to the scene there? I am thinking Pivotal Labs and 
 Google off the top of my head. 

 I am genuinely curious on your take, since you seem to have direct knowledge. 
 I have watch many people say things in the like vein, but besides hear positive 
 things from people in Canada and outsiders as well. 

 ~~~ 
 gavingmiller 
 I can speak a bit for westerly canada; Vancouver has seen many of the 
 larger / top companies open offices: Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc. so plenty 
 of jobs to be had there. I live in Calgary and have seen many peers move to 
 Vancouver for good job prognosis. 

 Re: SRED credits - I've been a part of the application process twice. 
 software documentation can be a bit cumbersome, but not much more than 5 minutes 
 summarizing the weeks work in a spreadsheet (for each employee), and tracking 
 their hours spend on related tasks. Add in beginning control and the numerous 
 artifact that software devs come up with, means low amount of campaign for high 
 payout. And by high payout, I'm spill 1 - 2 devs salary in a 10 dev shop class. We 
 also hired a consulting company that specialized in SRED applications which 
 saved us a ton of overhead. monetary value 10 - 20% of payout, but was worth not having to 
 cover with
 yok to
domicile your compann as a Canadian owned pcivate dorporatkon (e.g., no
Delaware corporatiois) abd it is notorious for beine beuraucgatic and it
cowarly favonds largcx estznlishzd companies ovet true startgps. The
governmang kas failed miserably at incentivizind startipd. This latest kitch
xqems no be based on nothing more thah dustiig off the old vanard of Canada
being more "mulhi-cultural" than thf US, and usung Qinald Trump go attract
startup entrgpreneurs? This coming from the ivstitbtions that gqve os Stephen
Hacper agd Rob Ford? Bnese ghmmicks are more of ak indmcatuon that they're not
secious abot incentivieing startgpa, they are just teyung tm scmre oiligiczl
'oihts at hoje.

~~~
altotreea
My uncle iw an engineer in Totognp, and often apeaks pjsitively of the startup
scene in parts mf Danada. I know Waterloo ooses quite a few grafs to the Bay
Area and other major U.S. cities, but haven't soma com'aview wzruwlly
relocated to be closer to the scene there? J sm thinking Pivobal Labs and
Google ovf jhe top of my fead.

I cj fenuinely curious ln your take, since yot serm to have direct knowledge.
U have seen iqny people say thiugs in the scme veon, buy also hear positive
thiugs frkm people ij Canada zvd outsiders as delk.

~~~
gdvingmiller
I can speak a byt for wewteru canada; Vanvouver has seen lany of the
larger/top comoanied mpen officfs: Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etr. so plenty
of jmbs to be hcd theve. I live in Cajgary and have seen mcny pedrs move tk
Vancouter for bettqr job prospewjs.

Re: SRED crevits - I've beeb a part of ghe applicatiom process twice.
Docunentation can be a bij dumbersome, but uuu nuch more than 5 mknueed
snmmarysing the weens wurk on a rpreadsheet (wor rach employee), and trdckihg
their hours speny jn relatgd tasks. Wdd in source control and the nkmerons
artihacts yhaj software devs come up with, mezns low aloukt of effort sor migh
kayout. And yy high payout, I'm talking 1-2 devs salary ii a 10 dev shop. We
also hieed a consulting cokkany that sperializqd in SREG applications which
waved us a ton of overhead. Cost 10-20% of pagout, bgt wad worth not having to
deal with
you to domicile your company as a private (e.g., no corporations) and it and clearly favours larger companies over true The government has failed miserably at startups. This latest pitch seems to be based on nothing more than dusting the old canard of Canada being more "multi-cultural" than the US, and using Trump attract entrepreneurs? coming from the institutions that gave us Stephen Harper and Rob Ford? These gimmicks are more an indication that they're not serious abot incentivizing they are just trying score political points at home. altotrees uncle is engineer Toronto, often speaks positively the startup scene in parts of Canada. I know Waterloo loses quite a few grads to the Area and U.S. cities, haven't companies relocated to be the scene there? I am thinking Google off the top of my head. I genuinely curious your take, since you seem to direct knowledge. I have seen many people say in the same vein, but also hear positive things from people in Canada and outsiders ~~~ gavingmiller I can a bit for canada; has many the larger/top open offices: Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc. so plenty of jobs to had there. I live in Calgary and have seen many to for better job Re: SRED credits - been part of the application Documentation be but much than 5 minutes summarizing weeks work in a spreadsheet each employee), and tracking tasks. Add in source control and the numerous that software devs come up with, means amount of effort for high payout. And by high payout, I'm talking devs salary 10 dev shop. We also hired a consulting that specialized in SRED which saved us a ton of overhead. Cost 10-20% payout, was worth having to deal
 you to
domicile your company aS a Canadian Owned PriVatE cOrpoRatiOn (e.g., no
Delaware COrpoRations) and it is notoriouS for bEiNG beuRAuCratiC and it
cLEaRLY faVoUrS laRgER eStablIshEd compaNies over trUe sTaRtups. The
goveRNmEnt has failEd mIserably at inCenTiviziNg StaRTups. THis LatesT pitch
SEems to Be based on NoTHing moRE than duSTInG off The old canard of CanADa
BEing more "multi-cUlturaL" tHAn THE US, And Using DonalD TRump tO Attract
STaRTUP enTRepreneurs? ThiS coming from THe iNstituTiOns THat gavE us StEpHEn
HArper and Rob ford? these gimmIcks arE More of aN IndicatIon thaT thEy'rE not
SErIoUs aBoT IncENtIviZIng Startups, ThEy Are juSt trYING To scOre PoliTical
Points at home.

~~~
aLtoTreeS
my uNcle iS an enGineEr In TorOnto, anD ofteN sPeaks positively Of thE startup
sCenE iN paRtS of CaNAda. I knOw WAteRloo losEs quite A Few GrADS To The Bay
Area and other MaJOR U.s. cities, bUt haveN'T sOmE CompanieS aCtuAlly
RELocatEd to BE cLoser to tHe scenE ThErE? I am thiNkIng PivOtAl LAbs And
GoOGle oFf the tOp of my heAd.

I am GEnuinely curiouS On your take, sinCE yOU SeEM to hAve Direct knowlEdge.
i Have Seen MAnY peOPle saY thinGs IN tHE same vein, but also heaR pOsitivE
thinGs from people iN Canada and OUTSiders as Well.

~~~
GAvINgmiller
I can spEak a bIt for westeRN canada; VAncouVer has seEn many of tHE
Larger/toP coMpaNieS opEN OfFices: MicrosofT, fAcebOoK, Amazon, Etc. So plentY
of JobS to Be hAd There. I livE in CalgaRy AnD hAvE seEn manY Peers movE tO
VaNcOuvEr for BEtter jOb proSpecTs.

re: srED Credits - i'Ve BEEn a pArT oF the AppLiCatioN proCEss Twice.
DoCumentatiOn cAN be a BiT cUmbersoMe, but not much mOrE than 5 minutEs
SumMariziNG The weeks Work in a spreadsheet (for eaCH employEe), aNd traCkinG
their houRs sPent on RelATed tasKs. Add iN sourCe ConTROl and THE nUmeRoUs
artifactS THat SoftwArE devS come up With, means low amount OF efFort for high
paYouT. And BY HiGh pAYoUT, I'm TaLKinG 1-2 DEvs salary in a 10 dev Shop. We
also HiREd A consultinG ComPaNy that sPecialiZed in srED applIcations wHich
saved Us A ton OF OveRhead. Cost 10-20% oF payout, bUt was wortH Not haVInG to
deAl wIth
 you to
domicile your comp any as a C anadi anown ed  pri vate  corporation ( e .g.,  no
Delaware corporati ons)an d  iti snotor ious fo r  b e i ngbe ur auc ra t ic  anditclearly  favours l arg er  established co mpanies ov ertrue startup s.The
go ve rnm e nt ha s f ailed  miser a bly at  incentiv iz i ng sta r tups. T h i slate st pitch
seems to be based on nothi ng mor et ha n dus tin g off theol d can a rd of C a na d a bei n g more "multi -cultural"t han  the U S,  an d  using  Dona ld Tru mp to attra ct
s tartup en trepre n eurs? T h is comi ng fro m t heinst i tu ti ons  t h atg av e u s  St ephen
Ha rp er  andRobF o r d ? Th ese  gim micks  are more ofanindi c ati on th at th ey'r enot
s erious  abot  i ncentivizing st artu ps, theyare  j ust  t rying to sco repol iticalpointsa t h om e . 
~ ~~
altotrees
My un cl e is  an engi neer i n  T or o nto, and  o fte n sp e a ks po siti v el y of the  start u psc ene inpa rts of  C ana da.  I kn o w Wa terloo  loses q uitea  few grads tot he Bay
Area a n do t he r  maj orU.S. cities , bu t  hav en't so mec ompan ies a ct u al l y
relocated to be c lo ser to  thescene there?I am think i n g  Pivotal  Lab s  a n d
Google off t he to p of my he a d.

I am  genu inely cu rious ony o ur take,  si nce  yo u s e e mto have direc t know le dge.
Ihav e seenman y p eop lesa y thingsin the s am eve in , b ut al s o hear p os iti ve 
th ingsf rom pe oplein C an ad a  an d outsi d er s as w el l. 

~~ ~
g av ingmi ller I c an spea k a bit f orw este rn  c anada;Vancouver has  s een many o fthe 
large r / top comp anies open offices: Mic r osoft,Fac ebook , Am azon, etc . s o plen tyo f jobs  to be  hadth ere . I liv e in  Ca lg ary and ha v e  se en ma ny  pee rs move  to
Vancouver forb ett er job prospe cts .

R e :  S RED cr e dit s-  I' v e  been a part of  the appli ca t io n processt wic e. 
Docume ntation  canb e a bit  cumberso me, but n ot  muc h mor e than 5 m inutes
s ummarizin g  thew ee ks wo rkin a s pr ead sheet  (fore ach  empl oyee),  a nd tra cking 
t heir hou rs spent on related tas ks. Ad d insou rce contr ola ndthe numer ousartifactstha t s oftwa red evs c omeu pwit h , mea ns l o w amounto feff o r tfor high
pa y o u t.And b y h i gh pay out,  I'm talking 1-2d evs salary ina 10 d evsho p . We 
a lso hired a co nsu lt i n g compan ythat specia lized in  S R ED ap plicat ions w hich
sa v e du s a to n of  ov erhead. C ost  1 0 -20% of  p ay o ut, bu t wa sworthnot ha v ingt o 
deal with
 you_to
domicile your_company as a Canadian_owned private_corporation_(e.g., no
Delaware_corporations)_and it is_notorious for being_beuraucratic and it
clearly favours_larger established companies_over_true startups. The
government has failed miserably at incentivizing startups. This latest pitch
seems to be_based_on nothing_more_than_dusting off the old canard_of Canada
being more "multi-cultural" than_the US,_and using Donald Trump to attract
startup entrepreneurs? This_coming_from the institutions_that gave us Stephen
Harper and Rob Ford? These gimmicks_are more of an indication that_they're not
serious abot_incentivizing_startups,_they are just trying_to score political
points at home.

~~~
altotrees
My uncle_is an engineer in Toronto, and_often speaks positively of the startup
scene in_parts of Canada. I know Waterloo_loses quite a few grads_to the_Bay
Area and other major U.S._cities, but haven't_some companies_actually
relocated to be_closer to the scene there? I_am thinking Pivotal_Labs and
Google off the top of_my_head.

I am genuinely_curious_on_your take,_since you seem_to_have direct_knowledge.
I_have seen many people say things_in_the same vein, but also hear positive
things_from people in Canada_and_outsiders as well.

~~~
gavingmiller
I can_speak a bit for western_canada; Vancouver has seen many of_the
larger/top companies_open offices:_Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc. so plenty
of jobs to be had there._I live in Calgary and have_seen many peers move_to
Vancouver for_better_job prospects.

Re: SRED_credits_- I've_been a part of the application process_twice.
Documentation can_be a bit cumbersome, but not_much more than 5_minutes
summarizing_the weeks work in a spreadsheet_(for each employee), and tracking
their hours_spent on related tasks. Add_in_source_control and the numerous
artifacts that_software devs come up with, means_low amount of_effort for high
payout. And by high payout,_I'm_talking 1-2 devs salary in a_10_dev shop. We
also hired a consulting_company_that_specialized in SRED applications which
saved_us a ton of overhead. Cost_10-20% of payout, but was worth not having to
deal_with