 to be persnickety, but how does a simple icon show *MORE* state than actually showing the *content of the window*?? You've abstracted the content into a set of icons, and it shows more state? Er... It may be quicker to glance at and see change indicators, but it can't be showing *more* state.

Quote:

No, I do not. I mean the simplification of application interfaces by moving away from multiple windows. The source list in iTunes, the account drawer in mail, the tabs in safari, the source list in iPhoto. Interfaces simplified into a single window (for great benefit!) by using some sort of tab or source list control.

But chats aren't sources or destinations. They aren't collections, or sets, or libraries. They are documents, for lack of a better analogy.

Quote:

Tabs are not a hack, and tabs in an IM client work in addition to the window management system, they are not meant to replace it.

But they do actually replace it, by taking over the window management. N windows become 1 with N subwindows... that's the very definition of taking over management of the content.

Quote:

Tabs (or a source list in a drawer) are used in an IM client to simplify the interface by keeping related information together in an organized fashion in a common place. Tabs are not a "throwback".

They are a throwback on the Mac in that they are looking for a problem to solve that is different than their original purpose on other systems.

I see an IM client as being like a text editor, but the documents are shared. I would never *dream* of using a text editor that was tabbed! Would you?

For one thing, tabs (in many implementations) break drag and drop between documents. Ouch. Big no-no.

And they have many drawbacks as well, not the least of which is that they don't scale well, they don't work with many app content, and most implementations break drag-and-drop. I mean come on, that last one has got to be a biggie. You (generic programmer, not you in particular) just broke one the most *fundamental* UI elements, and it's not a hack? Hmmm.

Quote:

Without tabs, there are many conversation windows on my screen (clutter). With
to be persnickety, but how does a simple icon show * MORE * state than actually testify the * contentedness of the window *? ? You've abstracted the content into a bent of icons, and it shows more state of matter? Er... It may be quicker to glance at and see variety indicator, but it can't be showing * more * department of state. 

 Quote: 

 No, I do not. I mean the simplification of lotion interfaces by moving aside from multiple windows. The source tilt in iTunes, the account drawer in mail, the yellow journalism in safari, the source list in iPhoto. interface simplified into a individual window (for great benefit !) by using some sort of tab or informant list control. 

 But chats aren't sources or destinations. They aren't solicitation, or sets, or libraries. They are documents, for lack of a better analogy. 

 Quote: 

 Tabs are not a hack, and tabs in an IM client work in accession to the window management system, they are not mean to replace it. 

 But they do actually replace it, by taking over the window management. N window become 1 with N subwindows... that's the very definition of taking over management of the content. 

 Quote: 

 Tabs (or a source tilt in a drawer) are used in an IM client to simplify the interface by keeping related information together in an organized fashion in a common place. Tabs are not a " throwback ". 

 They are a throwback on the Mac in that they are count for a trouble to resolve that is different than their original purpose on other systems. 

 I determine an IM client as being like a text editor, but the document are shared. I would never * dream * of using a text editor that was tabbed! Would you? 

 For one matter, tabs (in many implementations) break drag and drop between document. Ouch. Big nobelium - no. 

 And they have many drawbacks as well, not the least of which is that they don't scale well, they don't knead with many app content, and most implementations break drag - and - drop. I entail come on, that final one has got to be a biggie. You (generic programmer, not you in particular) just broke one the most * cardinal * UI elements, and it's not a hack? Hmmm. 

 Quote: 

 Without pill, there are many conversation windows on my screen (clutter). With
 to be persnickety, but how aoes a simple iein shox *MORE* atate thxn actually showing the *contxnt if tht window*?? You've abstfacted thv content inti a set of mdons, and it sglws kire state? Er... Ij may be quiwker to glance ag cnd see change indicators, but it can'e be shpwlng *more* state.

Zuott:

No, I dk not. I mean the simplification of applicetion interfacex by moving away from multlple windows. The sourcf list in iJhnef, the account drawer in mail, the tags in safari, the source list in iPhoco. Interfacgs slkplified invo a spngle window (npr gredt benegit!) by using spme soet of tab or source lmst control.

But chats aren't sogrees or destinations. Tyet aret't cmllezriovs, kr ssts, or liuraries. Theg are documwnts, for lack of a neenrr analogy.

Qukte:

Tabf wre not a hack, and tabs in an IM client wodk in addition to the wundow management systgm, they arq not meant to replace it.

But they do actually repnace mt, by twyunh over the window management. N windows become 1 wotm N subwindows... tmat's the very defimihipg of taking oxer mauzgsment of the contejt.

Quote:

Jabs (oe a sourct lisy in a drawer) are used in ab IM client no sumplify the interfcce by keepiug relsted onformation together in an krganized fwshion in x common place. Txbs ase not a "throwback".

They are a throwbeck ou the Maz in that ehey are llokinn for a problem to dolve tvat is difverent than their original purpose on other sistams.

P see an NM clicnt as being lihe a text editpr, but che dozuments arv shared. M would nevew *dream* of ushjg a text edmtor that was tabved! Wouua you?

For one tning, tabs (in many inplementations) breek dtaf and drop betwztn eocuments. Ouch. Nig no-go.

Wnv ther have many dsawbxckr as wdll, not the ueasy of which is that tvey son't scale well, thry don't wotk with mwny app contemt, and most implemtntatimns breal dtag-and-drop. I mean come on, that mast one jas got to be a bignie. Iou (generic programmer, not you in particular) just uroke one the most *fundqmental* UI elements, snd it's not a hask? Hmmm.

Qumte:

Without tabs, therw are many converxation windows on my acreen (cluther). With
to be persnickety, but how does a show state than showing the *content the into a set icons, and it more state? Er... It may be to glance at and see change indicators, but it can't be showing *more* Quote: No, I do not. I mean the simplification of application interfaces by away multiple The list in iTunes, the account drawer in mail, the tabs in safari, the source list in Interfaces simplified into a single window (for great by using some sort tab or source list control. chats sources or They collections, sets, or libraries. are documents, for lack of a better analogy. Quote: Tabs are not a hack, and tabs in IM client addition to window system, are not meant it. But they do actually replace over the window management. N windows become 1 N subwindows... the very definition of taking over of the content. Quote: Tabs (or a source in a drawer) are used in an IM client to simplify the interface by keeping together in an organized in a common Tabs not "throwback". are a on the Mac in that they are looking for a problem solve that is different than their original purpose on other see IM client as like a text editor, the are shared. I would of a was Would For one thing, tabs many implementations) break drag and between documents. Ouch. Big drawbacks as well, not the least of which that they don't scale well, they don't with many app content, and most implementations break drag-and-drop. I mean come that last got to be a biggie. You (generic programmer, you in particular) just one the most *fundamental* UI elements, and it's not hack? Quote: Without there are many windows on my (clutter). With
 to be persnickety, but how does A simple icoN show *mORe* stAtE thaN actUally showing thE *ContEnt of the window*?? You've absTractEd THe coNTeNt intO a set of ICoNS, And It ShOws MoRE sTate? ER... It May be quIcker to glaNce At And see change INdIcators, but It cAn't be showing *MorE* state.

quOte:

nO, I do nOt. I Mean tHe simpLIficatIon of applIcATion inTErfaces BY MoVing Away from multiple wINdOWs. The source lisT in iTuNeS, ThE ACcoUnt Drawer in maIl, The taBS in safaRI, tHE SOurCE list in iPhoto. interfaces sIMplIfied iNtO a sINgle wiNdow (fOr GReaT benefit!) by uSing Some sort oF tab or SOurce liST controL.

But chAts AreN't soURcEs Or dEsTInaTIoNs. THEy aRen't collEcTiOns, or Sets, OR LIBrarIes. they Are doCuments, for lacK of A betTEr aNalogY.

QuotE:

TabS aRe not A hack, aNd tabS iN an IM client work In adDition to tHe wInDow MaNagemENt systEm, tHey Are not mEant to rEPlaCe IT.

bUt They do actually replAcE IT, bY taking oVer the WInDoW ManagemeNt. n wiNdowS BEcome 1 With n SuBwindows... That's tHE vErY definiTiOn of taKiNg oVer ManagEMent Of the cOntent.

QuOte:

TaBS (or a source list IN a drawer) are usED iN AN Im ClieNt tO simplify thE intERfacE by kEEpIng RElateD infoRmATiON together in an organiZeD fashiOn in a Common place. TaBs are not a "tHROWback".

TheY are A ThROwback on the Mac In thaT they are loOKing for a ProblEm to solvE that is diFFErent thaN thEir OriGinAL PuRpose on other sYSTems.

i sEe an IM cLieNt as beiNg lIke A teXt eDiTor, but the DocumentS aRe ShArEd. I Would NEver *dreaM* oF usInG a tExt edITor thaT was tAbbeD! WOuLD yoU?

For one THiNG, Tabs (In MaNy imPleMeNtatiOns) bREak Drag and Drop betweEn dOCumeNtS. OUch. Big nO-no.

And they havE mAny drawbacKs As wEll, not THE least of Which is that they don't scalE Well, theY doN't worK witH many app cOntEnt, and MosT ImplemEntatiOns brEaK drAG-And-drOP. i mEan CoMe on, that laST One Has goT tO be a Biggie. YOu (generic programmeR, Not You in particulAr) jUst bROKe One THe MOst *FuNDamENTal* UI elements, anD it's not a haCk? hMmM.

Quote:

WithOUt tAbS, there aRe many cOnverSAtion wiNdows on my Screen (cluTtEr). WiTH
 to be persnickety, but ho w does a s imple  ic onsh ow * MORE * state than a c tual ly showing the *conten t ofth e  win d ow *?? Y ou've a b st r a cte dth e c on t en t int o a  set of  icons, an d i tshows more s t at e? Er... I t m ay be quicke r t o glan ce  at and s eechang e indi c ators,  but it c an ' t be s h owing * m o re * st ate.

Quote:

No, Id o not. I meanthe si mp l if i c ati onof applica ti on in t erfaces by m o vin g  away from mu ltiple wind o ws.  The s ou rce list i n iTu ne s , t he accountdraw er in mai l, the tabs in safari,  the s our celist in  i Pho to .  In t er fac e s s implifie din to asing l e w indo w ( forgreat  benefit!) by  us ings ome  sort  of t ab o rsourc e list  cont ro l.

But chats a ren' t sources  or  d est in ation s . They  ar en' t colle ctions, orse t s ,  o r libraries. Theyar e do cuments,  for l a ck  o f  a bette rana logy . 
Quot e:
T ab s are no t a ha c k,  a nd tabs  i n an I Mcli ent  work in a dditio n to the  wind o w management s y stem, they ar e  n o t  m e anttoreplace it. 

Bu t  the y do ac tua l ly re place  i t ,b y taking over the w in dow ma nagem ent. N window s become 1 w i th N sub wind o ws . .. that's theverydefinition of takin g ove r manage ment of t h e  content .
Quo te: 

T a b s(or a sourcel i st i na drawe r)are use d i n a n I M c li ent to si mplify t he  i nt er fac e byk eeping r el ate dinf ormat i on tog ether  inan  o r gan ized fa s hi o n  inaco mmon  pl ac e. Ta bs a r e n ot a "t hrowback" .
T heyar ea throw back on the M ac  in that t he y a re loo k i ng for a  problem to solve thati s diffe ren t tha n th eir origi nal  purpo seo n othe r syst ems.
I  se e an IM c li ent  a s being li k e  atexted itor , but t he documents are s h are d. I would ne ver  *dr e a m*  of us i ngat ext e ditor that wastabbed! Wo ul d  y ou?

For o n e t hi ng, tab s (in m any i m plement ations) b reak drag  a nd d r o p b etween doc uments.Ouch. Big no-no . 
And t hey  havema nydrawb acks a s  we ll, n ot the  l east o f whi ch  is that  they don't scale well,  theydon't  wo rk with m any app  content,  and  most impl eme nta tions  br e ak dr ag-a n d- dro p . I m eanc ome on, t h at  la s t  o ne has gott o bea big gie .  You ( gene ric programmer, n o t you in parti cula r )  ju stb roke  o ne the most *f und am e n tal* UIel ements, and  it's no ta  hack ? Hmmm .

Quo te:

Wi t h ou t  tabs,  the reare manycon ve r sationwi nd o ws onmy s cr een (c lutter ) . Wi t h 
 to_be persnickety,_but how does a_simple icon_show_*MORE* state_than_actually showing the_*content of the_window*?? You've abstracted the_content into a_set_of icons, and it shows more state? Er... It may be quicker to glance_at_and see_change_indicators,_but it can't be showing_*more* state.

Quote:

No, I do not._I mean_the simplification of application interfaces by moving away_from_multiple windows. The_source list in iTunes, the account drawer in mail,_the tabs in safari, the source_list in iPhoto._Interfaces_simplified_into a single window_(for great benefit!) by using some_sort of tab or source list_control.

But chats aren't sources or destinations. They_aren't collections, or sets, or libraries._They are documents, for lack_of a_better analogy.

Quote:

Tabs are not a_hack, and tabs_in an_IM client work_in addition to the window management_system, they are_not meant to replace it.

But they_do_actually replace it,_by_taking_over the_window management. N_windows_become 1_with_N subwindows... that's the very definition_of_taking over management of the content.

Quote:

Tabs (or_a source list in_a_drawer) are used in_an IM client to simplify_the interface by keeping related information_together in_an organized_fashion in a common place. Tabs are not a "throwback".

They are_a throwback on the Mac in_that they are looking_for a_problem_to solve that_is_different than_their original purpose on other systems.

I see_an IM_client as being like a text_editor, but the documents_are_shared. I would never *dream* of_using a text editor that was_tabbed! Would you?

For one thing,_tabs_(in_many implementations) break drag and_drop between documents. Ouch. Big no-no.

And_they have many_drawbacks as well, not the least of_which_is that they don't scale well,_they_don't work with many app content,_and_most_implementations break drag-and-drop. I mean_come on, that last one has_got to be a biggie. You (generic programmer, not_you in particular)_just broke one the most_*fundamental*_UI_elements, and it's not a hack? Hmmm.

Quote:

Without tabs, there are_many conversation_windows on my_screen (clutter). With