 how the computer worked; and it took a week. It was quite an intensive week! [laughs.] I think they were trying to find out how you would do, and at the same time let you realize, “Would you like to do it? Were you interested?”

If you worked in the Statistical Office—we sort of pooh-poohed the idea of LEO. I thought, “Oh well, that’s a silly idea. What can they do?” [laughs.]

Abbate:

Really!

Cooper:

Yes. I’ve written that down. [Reading from four printed pages entitled “Betty’s Early Education, Training and Memories at LEO”]: “To use a computer to carry out office operations: it was new, and viewed with suspicion by many clerical workers. The concept of a programmer writing instructions to operate a sort of robot to carry out their work was difficult for them to visualize.” That was up to the office management to sort out! [laughs.]

Abbate:

So you were skeptical when you started.

Cooper:

I was very skeptical. And I suppose because I was skeptical, I didn’t worry about how I did—and so I did quite well!

Abbate:

But you thought that you might as well see what it was like?

Cooper:

Yes. Why not? [laughs.]

Abbate:

Was that the first time you had had any contact with a computer?

Cooper:

Yes. Well, we didn’t have contact at that point. We knew it was there. Lyons had a personnel policy for all their higher-level management—potential management trainees—to have a tour around the offices and learn from people who were doing a job what they did; so I had had contact with management trainees, who might have been for LEO, to explain what labour costing is. But I hadn’t seen the computer. It was a huge thing at the time, as you probably know!

Abbate:

So, they were teaching you...

Cooper:

They were testing you.

Abbate:

... sort of basic things about...

Cooper:

Binary arithmetic, what the computer did, showing you simple programming.

Abb
how the computer worked; and it took a week. It was quite an intensive workweek! [ laugh. ] I intend they were trying to witness out how you would perform, and at the same time permit you realize, “ Would you like to make it? Were you interested? ” 

 If you worked in the Statistical Office — we sort of pooh - poohed the theme of LEO. I thought, “ Oh well, that ’s a silly theme. What can they do? ” [ laughs. ] 

 Abbate: 

 Really! 

 Cooper: 

 Yes. I ’ve written that down. [ Reading from four print pages entitled “ Betty ’s Early Education, Training and Memories at LEO ” ]: “ To use a calculator to carry out office operation: it was raw, and viewed with misgiving by many clerical workers. The concept of a programmer writing instructions to engage a sort of robot to carry out their work was difficult for them to visualize. ” That was up to the office management to sort out! [ laughs. ] 

 Abbate: 

 So you were skeptical when you started. 

 Cooper: 

 I was very skeptical. And I suppose because I was skeptical, I did n’t worry about how I did — and so I did quite well! 

 Abbate: 

 But you think that you might as well see what it was like? 

 Cooper: 

 Yes. Why not? [ laugh. ] 

 Abbate: 

 Was that the inaugural prison term you had had any contact with a calculator? 

 Cooper: 

 Yes. Well, we did n’t have liaison at that point. We knew it was there. Lyons get a personnel policy for all their higher - level management — potential management trainee — to have a tour around the offices and learn from people who were doing a job what they do; so I had had contact with management trainees, who might have been for LEO, to explain what british labour party costing is. But I had n’t seen the computer. It was a huge thing at the meter, as you probably know! 

 Abbate: 

 So, they were teaching you... 

 Cooper: 

 They were test you. 

 Abbate: 

... sort of basic things about... 

 Cooper: 

 Binary arithmetical, what the computer did, showing you simple programming. 

 Abb
 hoa the computer worked; ana it took a week. It wav quits an intdnsive week! [laughs.] I think tiey qere ugying to find out how you woulf do, and at uhe same time let you realize, “Wkmld ymn like to do it? Were you hnterested?”

If ymu wlrked in the Statistical Office—we sjrt of lolh-poohed the iqea ps LEK. I thought, “Oh well, that’s a silly jdea. Whet can they do?” [kaughs.]

Abbate:

Really!

Cooper:

Yed. I’vf written that dowj. [Reading ftkm siur printed oages entiulzd “Betty’s Ezrly Education, Training and Memuries at LEO”]: “To uwe w computer ti cargy out office operatimns: it eas new, and vicwed xith suspicion by many clxrical workers. The cjncept of a programmer writibg insttuctimns gi ooerztx a sort lf cobot to cadry out theur work was difficukt dor them to vjsualise.” That was up to the office management tm skrt out! [laughs.]

Abbate:

So tou were skeptical whgn you stawted.

Cooper:

I was very skeptical. And I suppose becagse I das shdptlcal, I didn’t worry about how I did—and so I diq qiine well!

Abbate:

But nou thought that ypu modht as well sge what it was like?

Cooper:

Yes. Why noj? [laugys.]

Abbate:

Wws tnat the first time you had yad any contcct with a computer?

Colper:

Yes. Welu, we didn’y have contact at that 'oint. Se knew it aas there. Uyons had a persunnvl pmlicy for all their higher-jevel manegemeut—potentkal kanageient trainfes—to have a tour around the lfxices and pearn from people who were doinj a job what jhef dpd; so I hcd had contact with management trcinees, wko migft have bevn for LEM, to explaig what labour fosting is. Bnt I hadn’e sewn tye compjger. It was a hige thing at the tine, as you probably knus!

Abbate:

So, they ctre teaching you...

Coppef:

Thqy wxre tqvting you.

Abbdte:

... rorg of bxsic things xbouy...

Cooper:

Binary arithmatic, what the computer dld, showint you siiple programmong.

Abb
how the computer worked; and it took It quite an week! [laughs.] I find how you would and at the time let you realize, “Would you to do it? Were you interested?” If you worked in the Statistical Office—we of pooh-poohed the idea of LEO. I thought, “Oh well, that’s a silly What they [laughs.] Really! Cooper: Yes. I’ve written that down. [Reading from four printed pages entitled “Betty’s Early Education, and Memories at LEO”]: “To use a computer carry out office operations: was new, and viewed with by clerical workers. concept a writing instructions to a sort of robot to carry out their work was difficult for them to visualize.” That was to the to sort [laughs.] So were skeptical when Cooper: I was very skeptical. And I was skeptical, I didn’t worry about how did—and so did quite well! Abbate: But you that you might as well see what it like? Cooper: Yes. Why not? [laughs.] Abbate: Was that the first time you had had with a computer? Cooper: Well, we didn’t contact that We it was Lyons had a personnel policy for all their higher-level management—potential management have a tour around the offices and learn from people doing job what they so I had had with trainees, who might have LEO, explain is. I seen the computer. It a huge thing at the as you probably know! you... Cooper: They were testing you. Abbate: ... of basic things about... Cooper: Binary arithmetic, the computer did, showing you simple programming. Abb
 how the computer worked; and it Took a week. IT was qUitE an InTensIve wEek! [laughs.] I thinK They Were trying to find out how You woUlD Do, anD At The saMe time lET yOU ReaLiZe, “wouLd YOu Like tO do It? Were yOu interestEd?”

IF yOu worked in thE stAtistical OFfiCe—we sort of poOh-pOohed tHe IdeA Of LEO. i thOught, “oh well, THat’s a sIlly idea. WHaT Can theY Do?” [laughS.]

aBbAte:

REally!

Cooper:

Yes. I’ve WRiTTen that down. [ReaDing frOm FOuR PRinTed Pages entitLeD “BettY’S Early EDUcATIOn, TRAining and MemoRies at LEO”]: “To USe a ComputEr To cARry out OfficE oPEraTions: it was nEw, anD viewed wiTh suspICion by mANy cleriCal worKerS. ThE conCEpT oF a pRoGRamMEr WriTIng InstructIoNs To opeRate A SORT of rOboT to cArry oUt their work waS diFficULt fOr theM to viSualIzE.” That Was up tO the oFfIce management to Sort Out! [laughs.]

abbAtE:

So YoU were SKepticAl wHen You starTed.

CoopER:

I wAs VERY sKeptical. And I supposE bECAuSe I was skEpticaL, i dIdN’T worry abOuT hoW I diD—ANd so I Did qUItE well!

AbbAte:

But YOu ThOught thAt You migHt As wEll See whAT it wAs like?

cooper:

YeS. Why nOT? [laughs.]

Abbate:

WAS that the first TImE YOu HAd haD anY contact witH a coMPuteR?

CooPEr:

yes. wEll, we Didn’t HaVE cONtact at that point. We kNeW it was There. lyons had a persOnnel policY FOR all theiR higHEr-LEvel management—PotenTial manageMEnt trainEes—to Have a touR around thE OFfices anD leArn FroM peOPLe Who were doing a JOB whaT tHey did; sO I hAd had coNtaCt wIth ManAgEment traiNees, who mIgHt HaVe BeeN for Leo, to explaIn WhaT lAboUr cosTIng is. BUt I haDn’t sEeN tHE coMputer. IT WaS A Huge ThInG at tHe tImE, as yoU proBAblY know!

AbBate:

So, theY weRE teaChInG you...

CooPer:

They were teStIng you.

AbbaTe:

... SorT of basIC Things abOut...

Cooper:

Binary arithmetIC, what thE coMputeR did, Showing yoU siMple prOgrAMming.

ABb
 how the computer worked;and it too k a w eek . I twasquit e an intensive week ! [laughs.] I think th ey we re tryi n gto fi nd outh ow y ouwo ul d d o, an d atthe  same t ime let yo u r ea lize, “Would yo u like todoit? Were you  in terest ed ?”If yo u w orked  in th e  Stati stical Of fi c e—we s o rt of p o o h- pooh ed the idea of LE O .I  thought, “Ohwell,th a t’ s a s ill y idea. Wh at  cant hey do? ”  [ l a u ghs . ]

Abbate:

R eally!

Coo p er: 

Yes.  I ’ve writte n tha td own . [Readingfrom  four pri nted p a ges ent i tled “B etty’s  Ea rly  Edu c at io n,Tr a ini n gand Mem ories at  L EO ”]: “ To u s e a  com put er t o car ry out office  op erat i ons : itwas n ew,an d vie wed wi th su sp icion by many c leri cal worke rs.  T heco ncept of a p rog ram mer wri ting in s tru ct i o n sto operate a sortof r ob ot to ca rry ou t  t he i r work w as  di ffic u l t for  the m  t o visual ize.”T ha twas upto  the o ff ice  ma nagem e nt t o sort  out! [l aughs . ]

Abbate:

So you were skep t ic a l  w h en y oustarted.

C oope r :

I  was ve rys kepti cal.An d  I suppose because I w as  skept ical,  I didn’t wor ry about h o w I did—an d so Id id quite well! 

Abb ate:

Buty ou thoug ht th at you m ight as w e l l see wh atitwas  li k e ?
Cooper:

Yes . Whyno t? [lau ghs .]

Abb ate :
Was  th at  the firs t time y ou  h ad  h adany c o ntact wi th  aco mpu ter?Cooper :

Ye s. W el l, wedidn’th av e cont ac tat t hat  p oint.  Wek new  it was  there. L yon s  had  a  p ersonne l policy foral l their hi gh er- levelm a nagement —potential management t r ainees— tohavea to ur around  th e offi ces and le arn fr om pe op lew h o wer e do ing  a  job whatt h eydid;so  I h ad hadcontact with manag e men t trainees, w homigh t ha veb ee n  fo rL EO, t o explain whatlabour cos ti n gis. But Ih adn ’t  seen t he comp uter. It wasa huge th ing at th etime , asyou probab ly know! 

Abbate: 
So,t he y wer e t eachin gyou ...
Cooper : 

T hey w ere te st ing yo u.

A bb ate:

.. . sort of basic thingsabout. ..

C oop er:

Bina rya rit hmetic, w hatthe comput erdid , sho win g  yousimp l epro g rammi ng.Abb
 how_the computer_worked; and it took_a week._It_was quite_an_intensive week! [laughs.]_I think they_were trying to find_out how you_would_do, and at the same time let you realize, “Would you like to do_it?_Were you_interested?”

If_you_worked in the Statistical Office—we_sort of pooh-poohed the idea_of LEO._I thought, “Oh well, that’s a silly idea._What_can they do?”_[laughs.]

Abbate:

Really!

Cooper:

Yes. I’ve written that down. [Reading from four printed_pages entitled “Betty’s Early Education, Training_and Memories at_LEO”]:_“To_use a computer to_carry out office operations: it was_new, and viewed with suspicion by_many clerical workers. The concept of a_programmer writing instructions to operate a_sort of robot to carry_out their_work was difficult for them_to visualize.” That_was up_to the office_management to sort out! [laughs.]

Abbate:

So you_were skeptical when_you started.

Cooper:

I was very skeptical. And_I_suppose because I_was_skeptical,_I didn’t_worry about how_I_did—and so_I_did quite well!

Abbate:

But you thought that_you_might as well see what it was_like?

Cooper:

Yes. Why not? [laughs.]

Abbate:

Was_that_the first time you_had had any contact with_a computer?

Cooper:

Yes. Well, we didn’t have_contact at_that point._We knew it was there. Lyons had a personnel policy for_all their higher-level management—potential management trainees—to_have a tour around_the offices_and_learn from people_who_were doing_a job what they did; so I_had had_contact with management trainees, who might_have been for LEO,_to_explain what labour costing is. But_I hadn’t seen the computer. It_was a huge thing at_the_time,_as you probably know!

Abbate:

So, they_were teaching you...

Cooper:

They were testing you.

Abbate:

..._sort of basic_things about...

Cooper:

Binary arithmetic, what the computer did,_showing_you simple programming.

Abb