 an omnipotent God? For all I know, God insists only that we "obey" physical "law".

The only people I know I'm rebelling against are priests and self-styled spokesmen for God, i.e. you.

God character requires that if we are to spend eternity with him, then this sin must be paid for.

Or so you say. How do I know that even if a "sin" could exist, that any sin must be "paid for"? And what do you mean by "paid"? If I have more money, can I buy more sin? Are there sales, discounts, mail-in-rebates?

God could have left it there, but instead, he has provided a way out, at great cost to himself.

Or so you say. What does it mean for an omnipotent being to incur a great cost? The concepts do not really fit together that well, in kind of the same sense that water and recursive enumeration don't fit together well.

realise that this will seem far-fetched and totally out of line with what you believe...

No argument there.

[W]ouldn't you expect your understanding of morality and the world to be radically affected if you thought God existed?

Why should it? Nothing at all about morality changes from Deism. You're assuming this radically different morality into existence in addition to "God".

Wouldn't you expect your understanding of morality and the world to be radically affected if you'd been subjected to constant brainwashing and indoctrination into a delusional belief system?

What Barefoot said. I do wonder why it doesn't occur to Kyle - and others who share his beliefs - that it's not just that we can't follow their reasoning. It's that the language that they use doesn't have any meaning unless you already hold the beliefs that validate that language (indeed, that require that language).

Also:

You may say why didn't God just forgive, or why something else. I don't know the answers to all those questions, but this way was unimaginably costly for God, if there was an easier way, then he would have done it that way.

So you don't know the answer to all those questions, but you're dead certain that if there was an easier way for God, he would have done it that way? How strange that God
an omnipotent God? For all I know, God insists only that we " obey " forcible " jurisprudence ". 

 The only people I acknowledge I'm rebel against are priests and self - styled spokesman for God, i.e. you. 

 God character requires that if we are to spend eternity with him, then this sin must be pay for. 

 Or so you say. How do I sleep together that even if a " sin " could exist, that any sin must be " pay up for "? And what do you mean by " paid "? If I have more money, can I buy more sin? Are there sales, discount, mail - in - rebates? 

 God could have left it there, but rather, he has provided a way out, at great monetary value to himself. 

 Or so you say. What does it mean for an omnipotent being to incur a big cost? The concepts do not really fit together that well, in kind of the same sense that water and recursive enumeration don't fit together well. 

 realise that this will seem far - fetched and totally out of line with what you believe... 

 No argument there. 

 [ W]ouldn't you ask your understanding of morality and the worldly concern to be radically involve if you thought God existed? 

 Why should it? Nothing at all about ethical motive changes from Deism. You're simulate this radically different morality into being in addition to " God ". 

 Wouldn't you expect your understanding of morality and the world to be radically affected if you'd been subject to constant brainwashing and indoctrination into a delusional belief system? 

 What Barefoot said. I do wonder why it doesn't happen to Kyle - and others who share his impression - that it's not barely that we can't follow their reasoning. It's that the language that they use doesn't have any meaning unless you already bear the beliefs that validate that language (indeed, that require that linguistic process). 

 Also: 

 You may say why didn't God just forgive, or why something else. I don't know the answer to all those questions, but this means was unimaginably costly for God, if there was an easy way, then he would have act it that way. 

 thus you don't know the solution to all those questions, but you're dead certain that if there be an easier room for God, he would have done it that way? How strange that God
 an omnipotent God? For all L know, God insisjs only vhat we "obey" phhsical "law".

The only people I nniw I'm rebelling against are priests wnd self-wtyltd spokesmen for Jkd, i.e. you.

God dmaraccec requires that if we are to spend etertigy with him, then this sin must be paiq for.

Or sl you say. How qo I hnow nhct even if a "sin" could exist, thzt any vin must be "psid for"? And what do you mewn bj "paid"? If I have mlre money, cqn I vuy more sin? Are there sales, discoonts, mail-in-rebates?

God could have left it there, vur ijvtead, he haw pronided a way omn, at graat cosy to himself.

Or so yoy say. What does it meen for an omnipotent being to iucur a great cost? The cincepjs do not eeauly fmt fogethfr vhat well, ih kind of tye same sense that eaevt and recursjve entmqration don't fit together well.

realise tvat this will seem far-fetcyed and totally out ov line wieh what you believe...

No argument there.

[W]ouldn't you efpect houx undefwtwnding of morality and the world to be radicajmy anfected if you tmought God existed?

Ehj xrould it? Nothkng at alm about morality cjanges srom Eeism. You'we axsuming this radically diffwrent moraliny ibto existence in abdition to "Gud".

Wooldn't uou expect your understcnding of moralitj and the dorld to be radizalky affected if you'd been subtected to conxtant bfaineashind and indoftrination into a delusilnal yeliex system?

Whwt Barefoot said. I do wonder whb it doesn't ovcgr no Kyle - cnd otmers who share ris beliefs - tkat it's uot jurt that we can't fmllow their reasoning. It'v that the laiguage thwt tyey yse doerv't have any mesning unlvsf yoy already hold the beujefs that validcue uhqt language (inceea, tran rxquirq that languace).

Alro:

Yui may say why dibn'g Goc just forgive, or whf sojething else. I don'y hnow the answers to all those questions, but thid way war unikagynably costly for God, if there was an ewsicr way, then hq womld rave done nt that way.

So you don't know the answer ti all those questiins, but you're dead eevtain that ih therq was an aasier way for God, hw would have done it that way? How strahge thdt Gof
an omnipotent God? For all I know, only we "obey" "law". The only against priests and self-styled for God, i.e. God character requires that if we to spend eternity with him, then this sin must be paid for. Or you say. How do I know that even if a "sin" could exist, any must "paid And what do you mean by "paid"? If I have more money, can I buy more Are there sales, discounts, mail-in-rebates? God could have it there, but instead, has provided a way out, great to himself. so say. does it mean an omnipotent being to incur a great cost? The concepts do not really fit together that well, kind of sense that and enumeration fit together well. this will seem far-fetched and totally with what you believe... No argument there. [W]ouldn't expect your of morality and the world to radically affected if you thought God existed? Why it? Nothing at all about morality changes from Deism. You're assuming this radically different morality in addition to "God". you expect your of and world be radically if you'd been subjected to constant brainwashing and indoctrination into a belief system? What Barefoot said. I do wonder why it to - and others share his beliefs - it's just that we can't reasoning. that they doesn't any meaning unless you hold the beliefs that validate language (indeed, that require say why didn't God just forgive, or why else. I don't know the answers to those questions, but this way was unimaginably costly for God, if there an easier he would have done it that way. So don't know the answer all those questions, but you're dead certain that if was easier way God, he would done it that How strange that
 an omnipotent God? For all I knoW, God insistS only ThaT we "ObEy" phYsicAl "law".

The only peOPle I Know I'm rebelling against Are prIeSTs anD SeLf-styLed spokESmEN For goD, i.E. yoU.

GOD cHaracTer RequireS that if we aRe tO sPend eternity WItH him, then thIs sIn must be paid For.

or so yoU sAy. HOW do I kNow That eVen if a "SIn" coulD exist, thaT aNY sin muST be "paid FOR"? ANd whAt do you mean by "paid"? iF I HAve more money, caN I buy mOrE SiN? aRe tHerE sales, discOuNts, maIL-in-rebaTEs?

gOD CouLD have left it thEre, but insteAD, he Has proViDed A Way out, At greAt COst To himself.

Or So yoU say. What dOes it mEAn for an OMnipoteNt beinG to IncUr a gREaT cOst? thE ConCEpTs dO Not Really fiT tOgEther That WELL, In kiNd oF the Same sEnse that water And RecuRSivE enumEratiOn doN't Fit toGether Well.

rEaLise that this wilL seeM far-fetchEd aNd TotAlLy out OF line wIth WhaT you belIeve...

No aRGumEnT THErE.

[W]ouldn't you expect yOuR UNdErstandiNg of moRAlItY And the woRlD to Be raDICally AffeCTeD if you thOught GOD eXiSted?

Why ShOuld it? noThiNg aT all aBOut mOralitY changes From DEIsm. You're assumiNG this radicallY DiFFErENt moRalIty into exisTencE In adDitiON tO "GoD".

wouldN't you ExPEcT Your understanding of MoRality And thE world to be radIcally affeCTED if you'd bEen sUBjECted to constant BrainWashing and INdoctrinAtion Into a delUsional beLIEf system?

whaT BaRefOot SAId. i do wonder why iT DOesn'T oCcur to KYle - And otheRs wHo sHarE hiS bEliefs - thaT it's not jUsT tHaT wE caN't folLOw their rEaSonInG. It'S that THe langUage tHat tHeY uSE doEsn't havE AnY MEaniNg UnLess You AlReady Hold THe bEliefs tHat validaTe tHAt laNgUaGe (indeeD, that require tHaT language).

ALsO:

YoU may saY WHy didn't GOd just forgive, or why sometHIng else. i doN't knoW the Answers to All Those qUesTIons, buT this wAy was UnImaGINably COStLy fOr god, if there WAS an EasieR wAy, thEn he wouLd have done it that waY.

so yOu don't know the AnsWer tO ALl ThoSE qUEstIoNS, buT YOu're dead certain That if therE wAS aN easier way FOr GOd, He would Have donE it thAT way? How Strange thAt God
 an omnipotent God? For al l I know,God i nsi sts  o nlythat  we "obey" phy s ical  "law".

The only peop le Ikn o w I' m  r ebell ing aga i ns t are  p ri est sa nd  self -st yled sp okesmen fo r G od , i.e. you.Go d characte r r equires that  if  we ar etos pendete rnity  withh im, th en this s in must b e  paid f o r .
Orso you say. How d o  I know that even  if a"s i n" c oul d e xist, that  a ny si n  must b e  " p a i d f o r"? And whatdo you mean by"paid" ?IfI  havemoremo n ey,  can I buymore  sin? Are  there sales,d iscount s, mai l-i n-r ebat e s? 
God  c o uld ha vel eft  it ther e,  b ut in stea d , h e ha s p rovi ded a  way out, atgre at c o stto hi mself .

O rso yo u say.  What  d oes it mean for  anomnipoten t b ei ngto  incu r  a gre atcos t? Theconcept s  do  n o t re ally fit togetherth a t  w ell, inkind o f  t he same sen se  th at w a t er an d re c ur sive enu merati o ndo n't fit  t ogethe rwel l.
real i se t hat th is willseemf ar-fetched and totally out o f  l i n ew ithwha t you belie ve.. . 

No  arg u me ntt here. 

[W] ou l dn ' t you expect your u nd erstan dingof morality a nd the wor l d to be ra dica l ly affected if yo u tho ught God e x isted?
Why s hould it ? Nothing a t all ab out  mo ral ity c ha nges from Dei s m . Yo u' re assu min g thisrad ica lly  di ff erent mor ality in to  e xi st enc e ina dditionto  "G od ".
Woul d n't yo u exp ectyo ur und erstand i ng o f mo ra li ty a ndth e wor ld t o  be  radica lly affec ted if y ou 'd  been s ubjected to c on stant brai nw ash ing an d indoctri nation into a delusiona l  belief  sy stem? 

Wh at Barefo otsaid.I d o  wonde r whyit do es n't o ccurt o  K yle  -  and other s who  shar ehisbeliefs  - that it's not j u stthat we can't  fo llow t he irr ea s oni ng .  It ' s  that the langu age that t he y  u se doesn't hav eany mea ning un lessy ou alre ady holdthe belie fs  tha t val idate that  languag e (indeed ,  that re quire  th at lan gu age ).

A lso:
Y oumay s ay why  d idn'tGod j us t forgiv e, or why something els e. I d on'tkno w the ans wer s  to  all thos e qu estions, b utthi s way  wa s  unim agin a bl y c o stlyforG od, if th e re  wa s an  easier way , t hen  he w oul d  havedone  it that way.

So you don't know  the a nsw ert o al lthose question s,bu t you're d ea d certain t hat if t he r e was  an ea sier w ay forG o d, he wou ld h ave  done ittha tw ay? How  s tr a nge th at G od 
 an_omnipotent God?_For all I know,_God insists_only_that we_"obey"_physical "law".

The only_people I know_I'm rebelling against are_priests and self-styled_spokesmen_for God, i.e. you.

God character requires that if we are to spend eternity with_him,_then this_sin_must_be paid for.

Or so you_say. How do I know_that even_if a "sin" could exist, that any sin_must_be "paid for"?_And what do you mean by "paid"? If I_have more money, can I buy_more sin? Are_there_sales,_discounts, mail-in-rebates?

God could have_left it there, but instead, he_has provided a way out, at_great cost to himself.

Or so you say._What does it mean for an_omnipotent being to incur a_great cost?_The concepts do not really_fit together that_well, in_kind of the_same sense that water and recursive_enumeration don't fit_together well.

realise that this will seem_far-fetched_and totally out_of_line_with what_you believe...

No argument_there.

[W]ouldn't_you expect_your_understanding of morality and the world_to_be radically affected if you thought God_existed?

Why should it? Nothing_at_all about morality changes_from Deism. You're assuming this_radically different morality into existence in_addition to_"God".

Wouldn't you_expect your understanding of morality and the world to be radically_affected if you'd been subjected to_constant brainwashing and indoctrination_into a_delusional_belief system?

What Barefoot_said._I do_wonder why it doesn't occur to Kyle_- and_others who share his beliefs -_that it's not just_that_we can't follow their reasoning. It's_that the language that they use_doesn't have any meaning unless_you_already_hold the beliefs that validate_that language (indeed, that require that_language).

Also:

You may say_why didn't God just forgive, or why_something_else. I don't know the answers_to_all those questions, but this way_was_unimaginably_costly for God, if there_was an easier way, then he_would have done it that way.

So you don't know_the answer to_all those questions, but you're_dead_certain_that if there was an easier way for God, he_would have_done it that_way? How strange that God