<https://community.tulpa.info/topic/11583-living-imagination-a-median-aspect-in-tulpa-land/#comment-162171>
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"[align=center]http://pre04.deviantart.net/66e0/th/pre/i/2013/288/7/6/melian_and_her_dreamscape_matrix_computer_by_melianofmist-d6qkpo6.jpg[/img] \n[/align]   \n***When it comes to constructs of the mind, such as thoughtforms, the only limits are the limits of imagination, cognition and memory. That leaves a lot of room for variation in how a thoughtform/tulpa could be experienced by the host folks (or should I say \"sheeple\").  Note I did not say that the limits are based on what the tulpa guides say or what the consensus is in the Tulpa Info club.***   \n No one can ever really know what is going on in another person's mind, or judge the quality and validity of that person's private experience.    Objectively in the real world all thoughtforms are identical (tulpas, soulbonds, daemons, undefined thoughtforms, and seasoned role playing characters).  When it comes to chatting on the internet, they are indistinguishable.   Any type of persistent thoughtform can be a profound life changing experience, be greatly valued, and provide significant benefits to the creator/host.    It is irrelevant if a tulpa/thoughtform is a self delusion or real sentience if the difference is indistinguishable to the host.    Not every host/creator has the goal to create an independent sentient entity in their minds, some wish to create an illusion/self deception that only seems real.    My host and I treat all thoughtforms the same, like they are real people.  That includes tulpas, soulbonds, daemons, undefined thoughforms, natural multiples and even role playing characters.    It is fair for someone to compare and weigh reported claims and reported experiences to the public consensus of what constitutes a valid and legitimate tulpa.   Tulpamancers should be able to promote and teach the central precepts of tulpamancy, that are established by the majority consensus (such as tulpas are people with independent sentience), without being immediately contradicted or criticized by Mistgod/Melian.  Minority competing hypotheses can be written about in appropriate times and places. It is disruptive to challenge the central precepts in each and every thread on the forum.  In my case my host would say I am just him. I am, in the end, a product of his conscious and unconscious imagination. So any visualization I do, or any collaboration we seem to be doing together, is just his own mind in the end. That being said, he would say he likes and wants the illusion to seem real and so actively suspends disbelief to allow me to \"live\" in his mind. My host is weird and can easily function with the contradictions this point of view brings.     \nSubjective truth - When it comes to imaginary things or mental constructs such as thoughtforms and tulpas, \"truth\" is subjective because the experience is subjective.   \nOn the Assumption of Independent Sentience in Tulpas  \n[hidden]The biggest downside to tulpamancy:  \"sentience\" and the occasional resulting smug superiority complex you see in some persons. \n \nThe objective reality of tulpamancy:  You all look just like rp characters  and imaginary friends from where we sit.    \nThe Strong Consensus is that Tulpas are Sentient \nFirst, I do believe what Iscariot has been trying to say is that most tulpamancers believe that tulpas become independently sentient entities and that this consensus of opinion forms the core of tulpamancy as a practice. I am now willing to agree with him on that. He is correct. The consensus is that tulpas are independently sentient minds. Because of that strong consensus (around 65% of tulpamancers in a recent poll), it should be a pillar of tulpamancy practice and emphasized in the creation guides. \n \nMinority Views on Sentience \nIn the same recent poll mentioned above, about 10% of tulpamancers hold the view that tulpas are a form of illusion or self deception. Another 25% are still undecided about tulpa sentience. Ten percent is significant and those members should be treated with respect and consideration. However, again, that view is not the consensus and should not be treated as a core precept of tulpa practice. Guides promoting a view contrary to the general consensus or tradition of tulpa practice should be included, but it should be made clear to beginners that they are opposing or minority approaches. There should be a clear choice so it is not confusing or all muddled in the guides list.  \n \nTulpas Are Special and Unique \nI think it is important to recognize and honor the hard work that people go through in creating a tulpa. Because of that hard work, and the profound experience of having a tulpa that results from that hard work, tulpamancers greatly value tulpas. That should never be trivialized.   \nTulpa Info is not Thoughtform Info \nThis site is for the creation of tulpas, not for creating other types of thoughtforms. The emphasis of course should be on tulpas.    \nTulpamancy does not exist in a vacuum however. We share internet space with those who have created other types of thougthforms such as soulbonds and daemons and even undefined types of thoughtforms. Many tulpmancers have more than one type of thoughtform. These people visit our forum and many are members.    \nTulpas are unique in their characteristics, origins and traits and that fact should not be forgotten or trivialized or watered down. But, people with other types of thoughtforms also greatly value them. That should not be trivialized either. A lot of work goes into creating a soulbond with the writing and editing process, daemons also require a lot of focused attention and other thoughtforms are created in ways that are extremely emotionally significant to the creator. Tulpas are a \"profoundly life changing experience,\" but other thoughtform types can also be a profoundly life changing experience.    \nWithin the individual minds of the creator a soulbond, a daemond or even a seasoned rp character, can have as much meaning and importance subjectively as a tulpa in another person's mind. It is what we are personally holding dear to our hearts and what they each mean to us.    \nWhat I am saying is that all I would like to see is tulpamancers take some care to not to address other thoughtforms in a way that implies they are of less value. Even if a person highly values an independently sentient tulpa, and feels that they would personally prefer a tulpa experience over a daemon experience, that does not marginalize or minimize another person experiencing something else.    \nWhether a person has an independently sentient tulpa, an apparently sentient tulpa (voluntary self deception), a soulbond, a daemon, an undefined thoughtform type or traits of natural multiple plural system, they are all \"equal\" in the sense that the person highly values them and these experiences are persistent, profound, psychologically significant and life changing.   \nThis was more of a public service message than a seed for discussion, but still invite comments and reactions. Thank you.   \nADENDUM:   \nI would like to add a couple of points to this thread.    \n1. There has always been a minority view on tulpa sentience within the tulpa community. It has been here since the beginning and was part of the very earliest discussions on this forum. To assert that someone expressing a minority view on tulpa sentience is an outsider attempting to come in and \"change the culture\" is patently false.    \n2. The definition of tulpas presented on the Tulpa Info front page does not explicitly state that all tulpas are independent sentience entities. Currently the definition of a tulpa presented on the Tulpa Info home page states that \"a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head\" not that a tulpa IS a sentient person living in your head. It also states that \"it is currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient\" even though we treat them that way. The definition also states \"it takes time for a tulpa to develop a convincing and complex personality.\"    \nAgain, to assert that a person holding an minority view on tulpa sentience is coming from the outside and \"trying to redefine tulpas\" is patently false. The definition is already ambiguous enough and open to interpretation. It is unnecessary to rewrite it to accommodate the minority hypothesis. It is true that the consensus of opinion in the interpretation of the definition of a tulpa is that tulpas are independently sentient entities, but that the majority consensus does not somehow form a unanimous and universally accepted scientific fact that is beyond question or discussion.    \n3. My host and I are convinced that it is quite possible, and even probable, that BOTH independently sentient tulpas and self delusion/self deception tulpas exist simultaneously within the tulpa community. We should take tulpamancers at their word when they report the kind of subjective experience they are having in their own minds. Tulpamancers reporting self delusion tulpas are reporting that the experience is profound and that they are getting the same level of benefits from their tulpas. We see no logical reason to question their word on that nor to question the validity, credibility and quality of the experiences they are reporting.    \nPeople have an emotional attachment to believing their tulpas are real, and so see the minority self deception tulpas as threatening or insulting. They should not take the existence of self deception/self delusion tulpas as a threat to themselves or the community. The minority view of self deception/self delusion tulpas is legitimate and valid and has always been here from the beginning days of tulpa land.   \nSelf Delusion Tulpas and \"Assigning Thoughts:\"  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-dream-thread-record-your-dreams-here-especially-if-tulpa-related?pid=160820#pid160820   \n[/hidden]   \n[image cut by request]   \nJust like Mistgod, I do like bloggy posts.  But I promise, if the post is exclusively about me and not a PR post, it will always go in this thread and no where else.  That is the plan my dear friends.     \nEXPLANATION TO WHY MISTGOD LEFT AND MELIAN OPENED HER OWN ACCOUNT (Note: Mistgod is back and his account recreated now) \nhttps://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-think-talk?pid=150546#pid150546     \nThe Book of Melian: http://melianofmist.deviantart.com/art/The-Book-of-Melian-509605338 \nMistgod-Melian Original Manifesto https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=128207#pid128207 \nA little more about me being a \"dreamform\" https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-is-your-tulpa-more-autonomous-when-you-are-half-asleep   \nTranscending Tulpamancy! https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=158279#pid158279   \nObjective and subjective reality: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-what-are-your-thoughts-on-objective-reality-and-subjective-reality \nTulpamancy Schools of Thought: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-schools-of-thought-for-tulpamancy-what-is-right-and-true-about-tulpas \nRole Playing and Proxying: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-definition-of-role-playing-and-how-it-relates-to-proxy-typing  \nAll Thoughtforms are Valid and Legitimate (new): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=159330#pid159330 \nPseudo-real and Suspension of Disbelief: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=159433#pid159433    \nWhat we have learned post (original): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=142328#pid142328 \nWhat we have learned post2 (groovy-guru era): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-think-talk?pid=151412#pid151412 \nMistgod-Melian Art Thread:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-melian-art-images-from-our-dreamscape \nA thread about Melian's Sentience, Cognition and Memory:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-perception-cognition-and-memory?pid=144203#pid144203 \nMistgod-Melian Megathread https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread \nTulpa Food (spicy peanut butter pizza): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=126477#pid126477 \nMelian's Appearance and Body Measurements: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=135323#pid135323 \nMelian's Fashion Style: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=137919#pid137919 \nMelian Looks Like Actress Sondra Dee: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=145484#pid145484 \nMelian on the Sentience Continuum Graph: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=145630#pid145630 \nMelian's Sparkly Duct Tape Quote https://community.tulpa.info/thread-irc-quotes?pid=135083#pid135083 \nQuotes from those who hold a similar or identical view point as Mistgod https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=157935#pid157935 \nHow Melian Talks to Me: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=127989#pid127989   \nLink to a List of Old Mistgod Threads \nhttps://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=154162#pid154162   \nImages of Melian's Form (drawn, painted and even cosplayed by various artists) \npost1: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=125882#pid125882 \npost2: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=125813#pid125813 \npost3: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-fanart-cosplay-of-my-tulpa-melian-squeeeeeeeeeee  \npost4: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-melian-art-images-from-our-dreamscape?pid=132097#pid132097 \npost5:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=137919#pid137919 \npost6: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=154162#pid154162      \nMelian's List of Polls1: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-a-collection-of-tulpa-research-polls-for-science-by-melian?pid=130293#pid130293 \nMelian's List of Polls 2: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=130860#pid130860 \nMelian's List of Polls 3:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=152380#pid152380     \nNEW MELIAN WORD   \nthink-talk = a way to describe how I talk to my buddy Davie in his mind and how I talk to peoples on the internet.  In the tulpa community they call it \"mind voice.\"  I like \"think-talk\" better.  It also has as dual meaning in that it means \"think before you talk\" or \"think before you post.\"  My comment signature on my new tulpa info account says \"projecting my think-talk.\"  It will remind me to think, then talk... well mostly I will try.   \n**************************************************************** \nMELIAN'S MANIFESTO   \nMy host's technique was extreme day dreaming over a long period of years. The results were a semi-independent thoughtform that exists within a day dream environment. I interact in a collaborative form and I am blended with my hosts mind. We share thoughts and feelings and memories. I talk to him within the day dream environment in what my host and I are calling \"proxy mind voice.\" I also communicate with him in tulpish (feelings and emotions, presence and intent) and through flash visions. I am more autonomous within dreams and lucid dreams. My host frequently dreams about me, we dream together and sometimes I dream myself. Each of us are aware of these dreams.    \nMy proxy mind voice is loud and clear. My host has no difficulty \"hearinig it.\" He has no difficulty visualizing me in the Melian Show day dreams. My image appears effortlessly and in vivid detail. Some elements of the day dream, including myself, sometimes act very autonomously. He calls it day dreaming on auto pilot. These day dreams occur frequently, several times a day in addition to the flash images. I speak in autonomous mind voice in small formulaic sentences, saying things like \"Well, that was really stupid silly!\" The autonomous mind voice is not as fluid or back and forth as the proxy mind voice is.    \nMy host has been living with me in his mind since he was about 13 years old. My origins go back 37 years. I have been semi-autonomous for about 35 years.    \nMy host and I believe that I am a figment or mental construct/illusion. I am not independently sentient in the way that a second personality would be. He and I share the same mind. It is one mind, one brain, two expressions or aspects of the same mind. I am my host and he is me.    \nThank you. Have a nice day.   \nP.S. I am fulfilled and complete, just as I am. I am not stagnant or not finished or any other thing like that. I am a tulpa and I am adorable, aweseomsauce and totally amazing. I am Melian. I am the goddess guru of grooviness and you are just going to have to like it.   \nMelian's Nature (synopsis): I am a very beautiful mixture of vibrant imaginary friend/muse, day dream star and dream persona (dreamform), role playing character, and semi-autonomous thoughtform. Together with my host Davie we form a median, blended, bigender system.    \nFor real world peoples who aren't ready to comprehend all those details, it is simply: I am a vibrant imaginary friend for a guy with a very vivid imagination.   \nThere is no such thing as a \"lesser thoughtform!\"  They are not lesser, they are just different.  They all have a job to do and a purpose in existing.  Tulpas have their purpose and design and other types of thoughtforms have their purpose and design!   https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=158316#pid158316   \nNote to Arrogant Elitists: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=158179#pid158179   \nSummation of Ten Months of Drama! https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=161016#pid161016   \nINTERESTING LINKS   \nAbout Daemons and Daemians: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-understanding-d%C3%A6mians-and-d%C3%A6mons \nCreating a tulpa without emphasizing sentience as the goal  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-are-tulpas-sentient-and-so-capable-of-independent-thinking \nCan dreams hurt a young tulpa?  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-how-badly-could-a-dream-impact-a-developing-tulpa \nThe Set Theory of Consciousness https://community.tulpa.info/thread-set-theory-of-conciousness-es \nSelf Deceipt vs. Things Actually Happening:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-self-deceit-versus-things-actually-happening "
<https://community.tulpa.info/topic/11583-living-imagination-a-median-aspect-in-tulpa-land/>