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"Normally Sandbox threads bore me these days.  Mostly because people lack the understanding of what is truly meant by the Google Sandbox.  As most experts say, people now use the \"sandbox\" as an excuse for why a particular site does not rank well.  I have seen tons of examples of non-sandbox like issues with a site, where people put blame on the sandbox for its under-performance.  But in this debate at Search Engine Watch Forums, DaveN kicked it off by saying;Mike Grehan, said '...the sandbox doesn't exist...'. ... Nope that was me ... we where on the same panel ...Well, that is all the thread needed.  DaveN, in my opinion, jokingly suggests to push back the time stamp your pages.  Then GoogleGuy challenges the people to \"experiment\" with that, but he feels that it won't make any difference (don't you just love that).  The fun starts when Mike Grehan joins the thread restating his disbelief for the Sandbox theory;Yes I did say the sandbox doesn't exist Dave.And I've said it at every session at every conference (dozens of them this year), since whichever \"I don't understand marketing\" nitwit came up with this half-baked theory about nothing, which never affects a well marketed business.And I'll say it again... If your web site doesn't rank anywhere at all at a search engine - it's probably because it has no differentiating appeal or simply because it sucks.What you actually need is called advertising and promotion and it has nothing to do with code of any kind, or subdomains or servers, or...Here's a tip I'd like to pass on for Christmas. Don't read anymore of this thread or any others about this ridiculous notion of a sandbox.Buy a good book on marketing instead.Directly below Mike's response, we have Ian Mcanerin post a \"conditional\" I agree with Mike.   Which then Danny Sullivan follows up on by putting things in perspective.  The folks go back and forth a bit and then Marcia shakes it up a bit by indirectly questioning Mike and Ian.  So I then pop in and outright argue with Mike for the first time in my life.  Then Jill Whalen also argues with Mike;I don't generally disagree with Mike either, but in this case, he's flat out wrong.I believe this thread is just getting started on its third page right now.  Mike has yet to come back and defend or clarify himself.  I still expect it to be an enjoyable sandbox thread.Join the discussion at Search Engine Watch Forums.Update, new thread split and cleaned up by Danny, named 2005 Year End Revisit: Is There A Google Sandbox?"^^<http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string>
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