text: #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-24
  <hamitron> 12 C and above is fine
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> fingers crossed it is just a fan
  <hamitron> be freaky if we had same problem on same day
  <markjones> http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1065/avsz.jpg
  <hamitron> as I have never had it before
  <Azelphur> haha
  <hamitron> hehe
  <ali1234> hoho
  <Azelphur> wtf
  <Azelphur> the resolution has gone all messed
  <Azelphur> the login box is like 1 inch wide
  <hamitron> have you tried a livecd?
  <hamitron> :/
  <hamitron> we all know you mess with things Azelphur ;)
  <Azelphur> hamitron, I'd have to use the livecd for a while
  <hamitron> even if you don't say
  <Azelphur> to confirm
  <Azelphur> :p
  <hamitron> yeh
  <hamitron> but worth it?
  <hamitron> can watch porn or whatever you do
  <Azelphur> lol
  <Azelphur> wtf lol
  <Azelphur> it's launched X on :1.0
   * Azelphur reboots and see's if it does it again
  <hamitron> :/
  <hamitron> was so much easier with config files ;)
  <hamitron> pink punchbag on boffer :(
  <hamitron> not been great stuff lately
  <Azelphur> there, I'm up \o/
  <Azelphur> now to play with it for a while and see if it dies
  <hamitron> the 1 day i didn't look, it was an external hdd that was cool
  <hamitron> :)
  <bigcalm> Night kids
  <Azelphur> hamitron: haha, pink punchbag
  <Azelphur> you know there's other boffer-like sites right?
  <Azelphur> I do a 4 site rotation every day :P
  <hamitron> no
  <hamitron> I don't want more
  <hamitron> just means there is a greater chance of spending money
  <Azelphur> haha
  <Azelphur> in other random news, you'll never be as cool as this guy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4txVqr1eNwc
  <hamitron> I am cool? :D
  <Azelphur> yes, but not as cool as that guy.
  <hamitron> he gonna bulch or something?
  <hamitron> belch*
  <Azelphur> *shrug*
  <hamitron> looks more like earthworm jim
  <Azelphur> hamitron: this is hilarious, I'm beating this huge guy at a game of strength xD
  <Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/official-post-your-picture-thread?page=2#comment-592 I'm beating this guy
  <hamitron> hmmm?
  <Azelphur> (I'm on the first page if you havn't seen me)
  <Azelphur> we both have these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Powerball-Neon-Pro/dp/B000OT8J9G and I had the lead on him for like a week with 9.4k points
  <Azelphur> then after a week of trying he finally got ahead with 9.9k, so 2 hours later I got 10.1k
  <Azelphur> xxD
  <Myrtti> minecraft would be overly simple if it had a map.
  <hamitron> you had to included your monitor setup in your pic...
  <Myrtti> wow.
  <Azelphur> hamitron: indeed :D
  <hamitron> Azelphur: still working?
  <Azelphur> hamitron: yup
  <hamitron> was gonna say, tempted to play a game tonight on my stable system ;)
  <hamitron> only now it has little affect
  <hamitron> hopefully, anyway
  <hamitron> no downloading tonight
  <hamitron> used 59Gb or 60Gb download
  <hamitron> so full speed tomorrows \o/ :D
  <Azelphur> \o/
  <hamitron> brb, coffee
  <hamitron> still ok Azelphur?
  <hamitron> :D
  <Azelphur> hamitron: yup
  <Azelphur> maybe same problem same day
  <Azelphur> xd
  <hamitron> must admit, I have had problems a few days
  <hamitron> months even
  <hamitron> just didn't seem to happen all the time
  <Azelphur> haha
  <hamitron> I was often stable for over a week
  <hamitron> then it would just freeze on me regularly for a few hours
  <hamitron> then right itself
  <Azelphur> \o/
  <hamitron> serves me right for using old fans out of old fried PSU ;)
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <hamitron> I assume you don't do that
   * hamitron looks at the monitor setup
  <Azelphur> :p
  <cr215> anyone have any experience with the pulseaudio-equalizer?
  <cr215> i installed it in the terminal but i cant find it anywhere\
  <HazRPG> morning all
  <HazRPG> guess its too early for some folk
  <HazRPG> Why is cumbria always a deadzone for everything :/
  <mattt> HazRPG: huh
  <HazRPG> us cumbrians don't have an awful lot of supports of anything lol
  <HazRPG> Cumbrian LUG seems to have died
  <HazRPG> (just as an example)
  <HazRPG> brb
  <screen-x> morning :)
  <AlanBell> morning
  <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
  <czajkowski> Aloha
  <screen-x> morning czajkowski :)
  <HazRPG> bk
  <screen-x> HazRPG: bacon cheeseburger and chips?
  <HazRPG> screen-x: not quite xD
  <TheOpenSourcerer> +1T for this suggestion: http://www.stefanoforenza.com/ubuntu-11-10-naming/
  <HazRPG> haha omg I forgot I had that!
   * HazRPG adds pokemon theme to playlist for car mix
  <HazRPG> xD
   * jpds will now negate everything HazRPG says with 'I'm sorry, I don't play Pokemon'.
  <HazRPG> jpds: fair enough, I'm making a CD for the car of random funnies
  <HazRPG> along with some classics
  <HazRPG> Rock You Like a Hurricane (for e.g.)
  <HazRPG> urgh, not fair - my kenny rogers stuff seems to be corrupted and I have no idea where the CD went for it >_<
  <HazRPG> must on my CD shelf somewhere...
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <bigcalm> Morning peeps
  <HazRPG> morning
  <HazRPG> argh, I knew there was a reason I didn't use media player to make playlists :/
  <hoover> morning folks
  <kazade> directhex, morning, I was just wondering.. should I use badgerports.org for Maverick, or is there a better place to get updated mono packages?
   * Neoti moin all....... work as normal.... DOH!!!
  <HazRPG> mornin
  <HazRPG> suppose I should get ready to bounce to uni
  <dutchie> bounce?
  <dutchie> is your preferred mode of transport pogo stick?
  <Neoti> HazRGP Bounce to uni .... what are you a ball
  <HazRPG> Neoti: I might be...
  <HazRPG> ^^,
  <HazRPG> dutchie: totally should be xD
  <Neoti> LOL now that i want to see
  <HazRPG> what, me bouncing around like a ball, or on a pogo stick?
  <bigcalm> dutchie: space hopper :)
  <bigcalm> dutchie: though you might be too young to remember them
  <Neoti> LOL thats a website killer gram and there are some girl on space hoppers ... lol ....
  <HazRPG> bigcalm: heh, I remember those
  <HazRPG> never owned one myself though
  <dutchie> bigcalm: not quite too young :)
  <dogmatic69> is it ok to use the same public key all over?
  <dogmatic69> ie for login to my server and github
  <Neoti> i dont see why not ....
  <Neoti> dogmatic69 : i have my key on about 8 servers....
  <dogmatic69> Neoti: cool, even if someone has access to the pub key it will still be ok?
  <dutchie> that's the point of a "public" key
  <Neoti> correct
  <dogmatic69> cool, just making sure
  <dogmatic69> thanks :)
  <Neoti> you stick your key                         all over the place so you can connect to things securely ... just dont publish the privvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvatekey ...
  <dogmatic69> ye
  <Neoti1> Hey All im not on my work computer....
   * Neoti now on work computer as Neoti1
  <Neoti1> Whos around...
  <DJones> Morning all
  <HazRPG> right I'm away to uni, later
  <HazRPG> o/
  <popey> morning all
  <MooDoo> morning popey
  <dutchie> lo popey
  <DJones> hi popey
  <bigcalm> Morning popey
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
   * Neoti1 Welll my nagios install is going mad becouse the network just went down ... ARGH!!!!!! DOH!!!! what fun today is going to be 
   * diplo sets Neotil to mode 'Not Flapping'
  <diplo> :P
  <hoover> mornin popey
  <hoover> Neoti1: have you checked out icinga?
  <Neoti1> hoover : no i have not ..... whats that
  <Neoti1> hoover : just had a look adn i will try it out later on a test machine see if its any good ..... thanks for that
  <diplo> Still based on nagios mind
  <diplo> Just had the cgi's etc improved and a few other parts, still core nagios though
  <DJones> Damm, goint to have to install windows on a acer laptop to update the bios
  <diplo> Can't do it via boot disk DJones  ?
  <DJones> diplo: Not sure yet, something I'll have to look at
  <DJones> diplo: Doesn't look like it, the update is a windows setup.exe
  <diplo> Dell site used to do those as default, but if you delved deeper you could find a cli update
  <DJones> This one is an Acer Aspire, I've had a look, but doesn't seem to be much I can find that seems hopefull
  <DJones> I wonder whether it'd run under wine :)
  <Neoti1> Does anyone use the Alwayson group for broadband or VPNs ?
  <diplo> heh, I just looked on there site, one bios update for a model is to 'Fix keyboard issues with linux' but with a windows installer and dos installer.. nothing linux update able in there :D
  <dogmatic69> can anyone recomend a decent place to buy a new pc?
  <DJones> diplo: I'm considering trying a windows xp live usb to see if that would work
  <DJones> dogmatic69: Have a look at nakedcomputer.org Might give you some suggestions of os free machines if thats what you're looking for
  <dogmatic69> ye, or a place that sells components but will ship built (for work, and they want that :/)
  <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: thakns
  <czajkowski> *thanks even
  <TheOpenSourcerer> np czajkowski
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: morning, you feeling better?
  <czajkowski> good bit thanks
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: no worrues :)
  <gord> omg found custard creams, monday has been rescued!
  <screen-x> :)
  <czajkowski> gord: you are amusing
  <MooDoo> gord: sorry choc bourbons are better
  <gord> ha, hahahahaha, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. no
  <Neoti1> custard creams all the way!!!!
  <MooDoo> gord: meh!
  <lazarus_> christ my hamstrings are sore this morning
  <davmor2> morning all
  <DJones> MooDoo: ,1 for choc bourbons
  <DJones> +1 even
  <davmor2> MooDoo: I got a bunch of aq's in the biscuit barrel
  <MooDoo> my fave and choc moo cow biscuits
  <lazarus_> morning
   * TheOpenSourcerer curses all this talk of biscuits and legs it to make a coffee and grab some Digestives.
  <lazarus_> has no comp comp
   * Neoti1 see TheopenSourcerer go for a coffee and gets one him self... 
  <diplo> Anyone know of a good tool to remove lots and lots of duplicate CSS lines ?
  <popey> diplo: vi
  <diplo> yeah but that means defining each line that's wrong
  <diplo> Can do that with netbeans
  <Neoti1> (CTRL+A DEL) LOL... he he
  <diplo> Or can I get it to see if there is an exact duplicate to delete any lines following ?
  <diplo> I've debated that Neoti1 if it wasn't so big i would start again
  <Neoti1> sorry diplo.... had to say it ...
   * TheOpenSourcerer returns armed with coffee, a digestive AND a shortbread finger too :-D
  <diplo> Hmm having to install vim :/
  <diplo> Want to go back to ubuntu on my lappy but I can't resolve the fans spinning all the time
  <czajkowski> diplo: are you running Ubuntu one ?
  <diplo> On windows yeah, and actually on ubuntu box as well yeah
  <diplo> I think the issue is that linux doesn't detect the fan properly
  <diplo> Keep meaning to maybe try askubuntu, asked here a few times with out a reply yet.
  <czajkowski> diplo: I just found from times my fans used to spin crazy when I was synin my U1
  <diplo> okay, will give it a try under u1, was defo an issue with Windows as U1 was running at 25%+ when running with sync turned on
  <diplo> Didn't even think about it on ubuntu
  <bigcalm> popey: checked the map recently? (near spawn area)
  <popey> ooer
  <Myrtti> can the multiplayer maps be played in Peaceful if others aren't?
  <popey> yes
  <popey> you can switch off monsters in smp
  <popey> bigcalm: you?
  <Myrtti> so I can play the map with you guys in Peaceful even if you're playing it with monsters?
  <popey> oh, sorry, misunderstood
  <popey> no
  <bigcalm> No
  <matti> ;]
  <Myrtti> boo.
  <popey> the server dictates whether there are monsters
  <bigcalm> popey: making a hot tap
  <Laney> how do you get the mob drops without mobs?
  <Myrtti> I'll just continue on my single player baby steps map then
  <Myrtti> btw, would a #ubuntu-uk-minecraft be a good idea ;]
  <Myrtti> or do you have it already :-D
  <popey> heh
  <bigcalm> Na. Minecraft comes under the heading of kittens
  * popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday January 27th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Cats (and minecraft)
  <bigcalm> :D
  <Myrtti> popey: thanks for the distraction tho, there's been a lot going on lately and minecraft is a good distraction from overly active brain
  <bigcalm> We wouldn't want to be off topic
  <popey> :) its fun
  <bigcalm> Much fun
  <popey> Myrtti: you're welcome to jump on the server any time, it's pretty much always up
  <popey> bigcalm: i might generate day _and_ night graphs
  <bigcalm> Last night popey and I made a mob grinder from a dungeon mob spawner. Sadly we're only collecting feathers
  <gord> popey, want my script? also keeps a history
   * popey modifies the script
  <bigcalm> popey: I think that would be useful
  <popey> gord: i has one :)
  <popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/2011/
  <popey> :)
  <gord> popey, is it the same one i have? because i copy pasted from somewhere
  <popey> no, i wrote mine
  <bigcalm> Those maps are going to take up a lot of space
  <bigcalm> Going to make an animation from them?
  <gord> .... people less lazy than me *shakes fist*
   * czajkowski hugs Myrtti 
  <Myrtti> I'm trying to work though, which I call a personal feat
  <Myrtti> I can do video editing and instructing pidgin usage, but I've got no hope of thinking about anything complex about marketing or learning Qt
  <gord> learning Qt isn't easy at the best of times
  <Myrtti> Qt Quick is fairly simple though
  <screen-x> I have a box which is 99.7% id, 0.0% wa, but loadavg is 2, why should that be?
  <jpds> screen-x: Is it HP?
  <screen-x> jpds: no, it's a VM.
  <popey> yay http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current_day.png vs http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current_night.png
  <screen-x> loadavg is normally 0.3ish
  <popey> bigcalm: yeah, maybe
  <screen-x> but has been high since a reboot this morning, but I haven't been able to work out why.
  <MartijnVdS> popey: you need more upstream bandwidth :)
  <popey> MartijnVdS: :)
  <popey> alan@hactar:~/bin$ du -hs /var/www/maps/
  <popey> 1.6G    /var/www/maps/
  <popey> ls
  <popey> bah
  <lazarus_> MartijnVdS: popey howdy
  <screen-x> jpds: why the HP comment?
  <Myrtti> you do know what load means though? it probably is waiting for the hard drive
  <screen-x> Myrtti: but in that case you'd expect a large value for io wait.
  <jpds> screen-x: bug #574910
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 574910 in Pantheon "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
  <lazarus_>  does gwibber have issues with twitter ?
  <czajkowski> lazarus_: from time to time depending on what verion you are running
  <czajkowski> it may get a bit slow in updating
  <czajkowski> lazarus_: killing it and restarting tends to fix it tbh
  <lazarus_> ok
  <DJones> lazarus_: Which version of ubuntu are you using, I've found 10.10 is quite stable, very rarely a problem, but earlier versions were unstable
  <lazarus_> DJones: 10.10
  <popey> bigcalm: might pop on the server later and go for a very very long wander :)
   * DaveMorris is confused with su.  Written a small backup script which I want to run as my user, by dumping it in cron.daily.  I switch to root (sudo su) to test it, and run it but it asks for my password before doing the su command.  The su command is su dave -c "/etc/cron.daily/daily-backup.sh" however if I do su dave -c "whoami" it works fine
  <bigcalm> popey: take food!
  <bigcalm> And a boat
  <DaveMorris> grrr
  <DaveMorris> stupid mistake, which you always find after posting :)
   * gord designs bot to constantly walk forward on popey's minecraft server, eating up all his hard-drive space
  <Laney> DaveMorris: sudo -u username yourcommandhere
  <DaveMorris> Laney: yeah I was doing that correctly
  <DaveMorris> the script I was then calling, didn't contain what I thought it did
  <DaveMorris> it was trying to do a su as well
  <tugrik> ew
  <bigcalm> popey: got to the other chest. Loaf of bred, 2 red stone, 3 iron, bucket, saddle and 3 string
  <tugrik> don't su in scripts :)
  <tugrik> best to run the script as that user in /etc/cron/crontab IMHO
  <tugrik> sorry, make that "/etc/crontab" :)
  <popey> heheh bigcalm :)
  <popey> bigcalm: is it still spawning?
  <DJones> Are there any benefits to installing 64-bit Ubuntu on a machine with max ram of 2Gb?
  <bigcalm> popey: yep, I've cleane it up as well
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know of an on-line place I can get someone to connect to with a Windows Computer so that I can then connect too and get remote control of their PC?
  <bigcalm> Much more productive now
  <DJones> Its not going to be a regular use machine, more for playing & testing
  <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yuuguu
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Tansom] What have I done? - http://www.linuxlore.co.uk/2011/01/23/what-have-i-done/
  <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: crossloop
  <MartijnVdS> popey: that link of yours is a hit here at work :)
  <Nafallo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12254668 â slightly off-topic, but relevant to your interest.
  <popey> hehe
  <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Thanks. Will look at both of them.
  <popey> yuuguu is java based, and cross platform, crossloop is windows only, but might work in wine at your end
  <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: dimdim also
  <DJones> Could be interesting, Sky set to buy a wireless hotspot provider & offer it to broadband customers as a competition to BT's service
  <Neoti1> LOL djones Sky use BT for there broadband anyway.... there just a reseller of the BT wholesale stuff... what would be good is if Virgin media did something with wifi .. now that would really challenge BT .....
  <DJones> Neoti1: Not always, they're installing their own equipment in some exchanges so apart from using the wires from house to exchange they're not reselling
  <gord> when i was with sky, they wern't based on bt
  <Neoti1> i work with another high level telecom company and im sure when i looked last they used BT Wholesale for broadband and then just packaged it up as there own with there own router etc.... will have to look again ...
  <DJones> gord: Same here, sky put their equipment in our exchange and they charge a lot less than the reseller price, something like Â£10/mth for unlimited instead Â£18/mth
  <DJones> Neoti1: It depends which exchange, if they've not put their own equipment into an exchange, then they do resell the bt package, but otherwise its just a sky package
   * Neoti1 stands corrected by DJones :)
  <DJones> :)
  <Neoti1> Djones : what would also be good is if Sky would offer Satalite internet via there sky box...
  <DJones> I've been on sky for about 3-4 years since they enable our exchange
  <Neoti1> that would also be kinda cool
  <gord> i doubt they have the bandwidth for a large scale satellite internet system
  <gord> especially one that has to share with the tv service
  <DJones> I'd like them to offer internet access via the sky receiver
  <DJones> iplayer etc
  <Neoti1> well would be kinda good .... VM have TV and Internet on one line... sky could offer internet and TV over the air waves etc.
  <gord> yeah but like i said, bandwidth is limited
  <Neoti1> Yeah... suppose your rite there
  <gord> satellite tech is really only good for broadcasting, when you want the same signal to go out to looots of places, its not really suited for the internet
  <DJones> I'd be tempted to move to VM, but they won't cable our road, even though houses within 100 yards do get cable
  <gord> VM won't cable our *town*, i hate them :(
  <Neoti1> is it a private road?
  <Neoti1> i love VM ... i have 50MB... soon to be 100MB when i get the trial....
  <DJones> Nope, right at the entrance to a housing estate, some of which seems to have cable
   * DJones considers sueing VM for distcrimination because of where I live :)
   * Neoti1 Hates DJones consideration to sue!!!! 
  <Neoti1> LOL
  <Neoti1> Djones, im sure they will cable the road soon ....
  <davmor2> DJones: did you think that the council wouldn't give permission to dig it up, or that the estate didn't exist when the cable was laid?
  <Neoti1> or if you all get together and start a group thing to get VM to cable the street that will work
  <DJones> Neoti1: I doubt it, I've asked them a few times over the last 5 years, its always "They have no plans in that area"
   * Neoti1 VM get your finger out and cable more streets!!!!!!
  <DJones> davmor2: Its possible, but you'd think the VM sales people that come round knocking at the door about once a year would know that the area wasn't cabled before trying to sell me a tv & broadband package
  <davmor2> DJones: Not if the council say no.  VM's hands are tied in those instances as they have no grounds to countermand the councils say so,  if you find that is the case you can approach your council as a tax payer but vm can't it's daft
  <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/3sza02  NYOMMY!!!
  <bigcalm> Had porridge. That was yum
  <DJones> davmor2: I think its probably a case that they extended the cabling into the estate as it was being finished, but because some of the houses right at the entrance to it were show houses, they didn't quite get there because the developer didn't want the show houses looking a mess/difficult to get to
  <davmor2> DJones: sounds about right
  <davmor2> DJones: over here it's the home builders responsibility to contact cable/electric/bt etc to inform them that the properties are ready for connection, if the same rule applies down there then maybe the builders didn't want cable streaks in their paths
  <DJones> That'd make sense
  <Neoti1> i personally dont move to a place/area that does not have cable... i Hate BT's BB services.....
  <Azelphur> Neoti1: there isn't all that much of the UK covered by cable :(
  <Azelphur> also, VFast is interesting
   * Azelphur isn't in a coverage area for that either
   * Neoti1 Looks at Vfast with interest 
  <Azelphur> they do 10mbit (soon 100mbit) WiMax
  <Azelphur> but you have to be line of site to their antenna
  <Neoti1> or have a friend between the antenna that can re-broadcast the signal for you ... LOL....
  <Azelphur> haha
  <Gringo> #help
  <Azelphur> !ask | Gringo
  <lubotu3> Gringo: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
  <Gringo> Need some help guys im i on the right channel?
  <Azelphur> if it's ubuntu help you need, yup :)
  <Gringo> Just installed ubuntu but i have no sound :/
  <DJones> Gringo: Ask away, if we can't help, you could also try the #ubuntu channel which is a lot busier
  <Gringo> Under sound preferences/hardware it says internal audio 1output/1 input analolog stero duplex
  <Gringo> anyone?
  <DJones> Gringo: Do you know which soundcard is installed?
  <Gringo> its a built in one on my gigabyte mobo
  <DJones> !paste | Gringo Can you run "lspci" in a terminal and copy the output into the pastebin link that the bot gives & then copy the link to website it gives you here so we can see what hardware you've got
  <lubotu3> Gringo Can you run "lspci" in a terminal and copy the output into the pastebin link that the bot gives & then copy the link to website it gives you here so we can see what hardware you've got: Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
  <Gringo> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/100839
  <DJones> Gringo: This might help, it gives details of troubleshooting methods & the person seems to have got sound working by the end of it http://www.uluga.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1661716
  <DJones> Although just reading it, they seem to have sound working, their problem was with the microphones
  <Gringo> ill give it a shot thanx buddy, 1 more more question i cant open rar files says archieve types not supported
  <DJones> !rar
  <lubotu3> rar is a non-free archive format created by Rarsoft. For instructions on accessing .rar files through the Archive Manager view https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FileCompression. There is a free (as in speech) unrar utility as well, see !info unrar-free
  <DJones> You need to install the winrar app or unrar-free from synaptic
  <DJones> Gringo: The package you need to install will be "unrar" that should solve that problem
  <Neoti1> or 7z thin thats what it is
  <Gringo> whats the command for rar i tried the sudo app get but that didnt work
  <MartijnVdS> Gringo: please read what people were telling you :)
  <DJones> From a terminal, try "sudo apt-get install unrar" which will ask you for your password
  <Gringo> thanx
   * Neoti1 LOL @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12262714
  <MartijnVdS> Neoti1: a bit of a neighing laugh? :)
  <Neoti1> lol
  <Neoti1> have u seeen this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/251310 i might get one .... bloody awesome... stick a dual graphicss card in there for the dual screens i have and bang ...
  <popey> yes, I got their spam today too :)
  <Neoti1> :) ....
  <popey> I like that the first comment is from someone running Ubuntu
  <Neoti1> some on the reviews has put about ubuntu 64bit etc... so looks good tome.. though i would like to know the mobo specs...
  <Neoti1> snap!
  <Azelphur> has anyone noticed nautilus seems to be terrible at copying things to USB drives
  <Neoti1> humm add a sata raid mirror and an extra HDD and a dual screen graphincs card and NICE!
  <Azelphur> just now for example I copied a 700MB file, it shot straight to 670MB complete, then stopped for ages
  <Azelphur> \o/
  <MartijnVdS> \o/ disk cache :)
  <gord> Azelphur, yeah its not nautilus, its linux ;) its not terrible just hard to actually report the right statistics
  <Azelphur> lol
  <Neoti1> gord its turned in to windows.... with the whole thing or reporting stats wrong
  <czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQoF24ozJw pretty damn good
  <DJones> That install is fast :)
  <Neoti1> LOL thats good ... was it made with Kdenlive though or on a ubuntu computer cos thaqt would be ace
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: I spy Sil
  <DJones> Neoti1: End credits say produced and created with Kdenlive on 10.10
  <Neoti1> ah did not see that .. lol AWESOME!!!!!!!
  <Neoti1> ok im after a dual headed Graphics card for using in ubuntu which one ?
  <davmor2> czajkowski: yeap it is that's why I retweeted it I thought it was worthy
  <Neoti1> whats more supported Nvidia ?
  <Neoti1> thinking about a NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS ?
  <czajkowski> *sigh* yes please send me a doc to review.. then don't attach it :(
  <gord> Neoti1, the 8000 series is currently pretty well supported via the open source drivers i hear
  <Neoti1> gord was thinking http://www.ebuyer.com/product/174131
  <gord> i can't comment on the open soruce drivers but i use two monitors with my current graphics card just fine, nvidia gtx 260, used to run two monitors off a geforce 6600 just fine also
  <Azelphur> multi monitor discussion? why has nobody highlighted me yet :P
  <dogmatic69> im running a geforce 9800 1gig with 2x monitors on the ubuntu supplied drivers
  <Azelphur> I'm running a GTX 570 and 8800GT with 4x1920x1200
  <dogmatic69> ^ nice
  <Neoti1> Double nice ^
  <dogmatic69> 4x nice :D
  <Neoti1> lol
  <Azelphur> xD
  <Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/official-post-your-rig-thread
  <dogmatic69> Azelphur: you on the antique desk?
  <Azelphur> yup :p
  <Azelphur> I need a new desk but havn't seen anything I like
  <Azelphur> they don't build em like they used to.
  <Twinkletoes> The resolvconf package doesn't populate /etc/resolv.conf upon reboot, but only when manually restarting networking.  man resolv.conf gives a similar example to my setup (iface eth0 inet static) so I'm assuming I'm doing things right.  Why doesn't resolvconf work at reboot?
  <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
  <Neoti1> howdy
  <brobostigon> afternoonings Neoti1
   * brobostigon has decided to stick with gingerbread, but give up on native gmail and use k9 insted.
  <Neoti1> what phone u got
  <Neoti1> i got galaxy s i9000
  <Neoti1> only Froyo tho
  <brobostigon> Neoti1: htc dream
  <Neoti1> kool
  <Azelphur> I got HTC Desire Z \o/
  <Neoti1> what that heavy bulky phone ... he he
  <DJones> Azelphur: How do you cope? ...... A phone only has one screen :)
  <Neoti1> lol....
   * brobostigon installs setcpu
  <Azelphur> haha :D
  <Azelphur> DJones: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202011/IMG_20110117_033502.jpg is how I cope
  <brobostigon> urghh, that coffee ijust made is awful.
  <Azelphur> that gets me up to 3, but it isn't exactly 4.
  <DJones> Heh
  <Neoti1> what specs the netbook ?
  <cps> afternoon peeps :)
  <brobostigon> cps: afternoonings ttm :)
  <Azelphur> Neoti Atom N450 1.6ghz, I think 1GB RAM
  <cps> brobostigon: hey, how are you?
  <Neoti1> what make ...
  <Azelphur> it's an Asus EEE 1001P
  <Neoti1> oh ...
  <brobostigon> cps: not bad, my eczema is calming down, and the infection is going. how about you?
  <cps> brobostigon: I'm okay :) good to hear about the eczema
  <brobostigon> cps: :)
   * cps bought a new keyboard today
  <brobostigon> cps: what kind?
  <cps> brobostigon: just a cheap one from argos
  <screen-x> cps: as bigcalm says, a new keyboard is as good as a holiday
  <cps> it's a very good one, however
  <cps> excellent build quality, good tactile feedback
  <davmor2> Azelphur: http://ubuntuone.com/p/Zp1/ no idea what you mean and as soon as I find the power lead for the other monitor they'll be another 2 pc up and running :)
  <cps> screen-x: I can't see how a keyboard would compare to a holiday :s lol
  <brobostigon> cps: ah, ok.
  <screen-x> cps: refreshing for the hands/wrists/arms to be in a slightly different position
  <Azelphur> davmor2: cool :D
  <cps> screen-x: ah
  <cps> the old keyboard I used was advertised as an âergonomicâ keyboard for some reason
  <cps> looked rather normal but it was the cheapest USB keyboard available
   * cps opens the vent above his window
  <cps> hmm
  <cps> haggis, neeps and tatties tomorrow
   * Neoti1 installs "My Traceroute" on my hosted CentOS 5.5 box to prove to a network provider the packet lose is on there end!!!!
  <cps> Neoti: haha, how long has that situation being going omn for?
  <cps> Neoti1 *
  <Neoti1> about 6 days.... i have given so much info to the provider and this is the last thing im sending to them... i send SIP RTP down the line and packets keep getting lost so MTR if left running for an hour will tell me deffinetly which router is losing the packets and how much packet lose there is .... which this i can go to the provider and give them hell ... lol
  <brobostigon> ok, does anyone here have android 2.3, and know how to reduce the mount of workspaces, ie, delete workspaces with the native android launcher. please.
   * cps digs out his g2
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: afaik you can't
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: not good. :(
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've left the outer two empty
  <brobostigon> adw-launcher here we come.
  <DJones> brobostigon: I think you have to change to a different launcher
  <popey> brobostigon: why do you want less workspaces?
  <brobostigon> DJones: thats what i will have to do.
  <brobostigon> popey: they are there doing nothing,
  <popey> and that is a problem why?
  <brobostigon> popey: because i dont want them there, is i am not going to use them, and it uses resources better used elsewhere.
  <gord> eerrr
  <gord> nooooo
  <gord> it will use up no more resources than 1 workspace if you don't use them
   * brobostigon thinks he needs to go bang his head on a hard surface.
  <brobostigon> cheers gord
  <popey> indeed
  <popey> i guess it's like having multiple desktops in x
  <brobostigon> popey: indeed.
  <popey> But then I know someone who obsessively closes windows because they get confused by having more than one thing open
  <kaushal> hi
  <popey> which is insanely frustrating
  <kaushal> Please guide further about http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/557694/
   * popey expects an sql query from kaushal 
  <kaushal> popey: hi
  <popey> ah, there it is
  <kaushal> popey: you are super fast
  <brobostigon> i have four workspaces open here and about half dozen apps.
  <popey> you're asking an oracle question on an ubuntu mailing list kaushal ?
  <popey> I hope you have your flame retardant underpants on?
  <popey> you're going to get quite a kicking
  <popey> (I suspect)
  <popey> mind you the person I am talking about (multiple windows open not) also refuses to have two items of food in her mouth at once
  <popey> can't cope with two tastes
  <popey> very weird
  <screen-x> popey: I always mix my cereals :)
   * DJones wonders if a bacon buttie counts as two seperate tastes, or would that only be with the addition of sausage or hp sauce
  <gord> ... why are you people putting two items of food in your mouth at once? o_O stop cramming your face! eat slower!
  <DJones> gord: I'm catching up, after having teeth out last week, I've got a weeks worth of crispy food to catch up on
  <popey> gord: roast dinner, a piece of meat and some vegetables on a fork isn't unheard of
  <popey> for her, she would eat exactly one thing at a time
  <popey> mind you, my OCD habits are just as bad :D
  <popey> I find it hard to put washing on the washing line if the pegs don't match (both wood or both plastic, or both one colour)
  <bigcalm> popey: when are the maps regenerated?
  <popey> every 10 mins
  <bigcalm> On the 10 min mark?
  <popey> yes
  <popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/
  <popey> see current_day and current_night
  <bigcalm> Ta
  <popey> generated 2 mins ago
  <popey> hehe, i see gord visited :)
   * dutchie visits
   * dutchie needs a break from maths :(
  <jpds> dutchie: Teach your computer how to count.
  <screen-x> popey: how big are your vnstat dbs?
  <popey> que?
  <popey> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 2272 2011-01-24 15:35 eth0
  <popey> small
  <jpds> screen-x: It's RRD.
  <screen-x> Mine are all exactly that size, reguardless of length of time recording.
  <screen-x> jpds: ahh, that would make sense
  <popey> anyway kaushal put that in a file and save it, then at the sql> prompt type @filename.sql
  <popey> it will run it
  <popey> kaushal: or just paste it into the sql> prompt
  <popey> without all those quotes around it
   * dutchie loads up the popeymap to locate where his house went
  <popey> :)
  <brobostigon> and why one earth does the power control in gingerbread not have a control to turn data on and off.
  <gord> brobostigon, you mean the widget? it never had that, there isn't enough space
  <brobostigon> gord: the cm version of 2.2.1 did.
  <gord> i have wifi, blutooth, sound, sync and brightness
  <brobostigon> gord: in 2.3 here same, but in the cyanogenmod version of 2.2.1 it had one for data aswell.
  <gord> data would be kinda silly, you only really need that if you are roaming (auto turns off then anyway) or you are gonna go over your limit, in which case thats really a one time thing, so you can just enable it in the settings. don't need quick access
  <brobostigon> gord: i find sometimes it uses alot of power consimpation, so i tented to only turn it on when needed.
  <brobostigon> consumption* tended*
   * czajkowski has a fruit mix. day got a lot better
  <czajkowski> yummy melon and pineapple wiht some mango
  <gord> ... note to self, steal czajkowski's food. has the tasty things
  <czajkowski> gord: tesco 2 tubs for 2 quid
  <czajkowski> one frutity one exotic
  <czajkowski> both damn tasty
  <czajkowski> gord: told you, do your shopping online :)
  <dutchie> i think i will go to tesco in a minute
   * AlanBell has borbon creams
  <czajkowski> ohhh tasty
   * Neoti1 victory is mine .... that provider has admitted its there problem regarding my packet lose ... YEY!!!!
  <kaushal> popey: hi again
  <kaushal> sorry was away
  <kaushal> I did run that it did not exit
  <popey> kaushal: explain?
  <popey> what makes you think it should exit?
  <kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/557703/
  <kaushal> popey: shall i pastebin the query ?
  <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/557694/
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Edubuntu at BETT 2011 - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/01/24/edubuntu-at-bett-2011/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=edubuntu-at-bett-2011
  <popey> kazade: you didnt read what I typed
  <popey> 16:07:37 < popey> what makes you think it should exit?
  <popey> what if you just paste it into sqlplus?
   * dutchie burned tongue with coffee :(
  <kazade> popey, ??
  <popey> http://unreasonablefaith.com/2011/01/24/an-ant-drinking-from-a-raindrop/ wow
  <kazade> oh tab completion fail popey
  <popey> sorry
  <czajkowski> dutchie: not good
  <popey> 22671 alan      20   0 2481m 1.4g 5064 S   17 48.2 100:10.98 java
  <popey> :)
  <bigcalm> popey: I've been walking a little
  <popey> so you have
  <Myrtti> boo.
  <Myrtti> stupid minecraft
  <Myrtti> I lost my house.
  <bigcalm> At a big cave. Don't know if I should keep walking or not
  <Myrtti> I can't find it.
  <bigcalm> Myrtti: build another one :)
  <Myrtti> not that I care too much, but it has all my junk
  <dogmatic69> Myrtti: build a compas, will take you back to spawn
  <Myrtti> and this is the THIRD house I've build
  <dogmatic69> 4 gold + 1 red stone dust
  <Myrtti> dogmatic69: I didn't build my house there, so I'm at lost even with the compass
  <Myrtti> stupid goddammit...
  <dogmatic69> :D
  <Myrtti> *cough*
  <Myrtti> *sigh*
  <dogmatic69> i always build a huge tower so it can be seen from pretty far
  <popey> Myrtti: generate a map
  <popey> then you will be able to find it again
  <Myrtti> popey: what would you recommend for an app for that?
  <popey> i use mcmap
  <Myrtti> thankies
  <popey> its in git
  <popey> somewhere :)
  <popey> git clone https://github.com/Zahl/mcmap.git
  <popey> in my bash history as it happens
  <popey> just run mcmap with one parameter which is the "world1" folder where your world data is, which is probably directly under where your minecraft.jar is
  <popey> bigcalm: i see a pile of sand in amongst some trees at teh very top right of the map :)
  <popey> yours?
  <bigcalm> No, I've walked to the bottom left
  <popey> ah
  <Myrtti> how do you get down from the top of the pillar without killing yourself in the fall?
  <popey> dig
  <bigcalm> Lots of snow and then some lights
  <popey> i build two towers adjacent
  <Myrtti> ah, ok
  <popey> look odown, jump and place, jump and place
  <popey> *down
  <popey> step onto second one and dig it back down leaving the other one up
  <czajkowski> sounds like some new craze of a dance move popey
  <popey> :)
  <popey> I do not dance*
  <popey>  
  <popey> *(this is a tiny lie)
  <popey> bigcalm: generating a google maps zoomable map :)
  <popey> takes 40 mins !
  <Myrtti> ha, there they are, both my houses
  <czajkowski> heh
  <popey> :)
  <Myrtti> now I'm made a pillar at where I'm lost...
  <popey> regenerate map :)
  <Myrtti> oh good grief
  <popey> see where you are
  <Myrtti> I'm on the other side of the damned map
  <popey> hehe
   * Neoti1 yey home time...
  <popey> nice to get out and about
  <danfish> afternoon all
  <danfish> \o/ in 20mins my linode will have had an uptime of 100 days :)
  <pr0ph3t> hi all
   * Myrtti facepalms http://flickr.com/gp/myrtti/2hA8Gc
  <gord> tesco don't allow non alphanumeric characters for passwords and you can't have more than ten characters.. why would anyone ever enforce a limit of 10 characters on a password!!
  <Myrtti> my bank has even worse
  <gord> "sound be between six and ten characters in length, upper-case and lower-case letters are treated the same". so basically, you can brute force this on a zx zpectrum
  <Myrtti> then again, the password is only for identification, the actual login comes with a onetime passkey
  <gord> s/sound/should
  <DJones> There's not a lot of consistency with banks & their online logon's
  <DJones> One bank uses an id number/password/secret information & the secret info has to be entered via drop down boxes rather than typing it in
  <popey>  heheh Myrtti
  <popey> bigcalm: discovered the server.properties file :) and spawn-monsters=true
  <pr0ph3t> I have a problem with my 3g integrated modem, basically I cannot connect, in practice it seems there is no signal, i.e. the radio is off, but in windows works fine, in exactly the same spot. I have a Asus UL30A-QX328V Laptop, running Ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 64 bit with kernel 2.6.37-12-generic, any help would be greatly appreciated!
  <popey> pr0ph3t: how are you trying to connect?
  <pr0ph3t> popey, different ways, I tried the wizard as well
  <popey> you have a sim in it, from which network?
  <pr0ph3t> O2-UK
  <popey> and when you go through network manager, does it ask you for the carrier?
  <pr0ph3t> it's a laptop on contract from O2
  <pr0ph3t> yes
  <pr0ph3t> popey, the apn, the password and the username
  <popey> you have seen http://dev.iksaif.net/boards/2/topics/54 ?
  <pr0ph3t> popey, indeed
  <pr0ph3t> yes I have
  <popey> have you tried the patch?
  <sprite> ( o Y o )
  <popey> hello sprite
  <pr0ph3t> I tried to get in touch with Dan but he hasn't replied yet
  <sprite> hello :]
  <pr0ph3t> popey, the patch was merged into mainline a while ago
  <pr0ph3t> it works with control files with either "0" or "1" in them
  <popey> ah
  <pr0ph3t> and the wwan file has 1 in it
  <pr0ph3t> but the radio seems to be off still
  <pr0ph3t> I tried to ask the guy on that thread and also on ubuntu forums, he has the same model as me, but he hasn't replied, a month since I first tried to contact him
  <popey> file a bug?
  <popey> against network manager
  <pr0ph3t> but he says he managed to get it to work
  <pr0ph3t> I did
  <pr0ph3t> but if he managed to get it to work
  <popey> whats the bug number?
  <pr0ph3t> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/700627
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 700627 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network Manager switches 3G modem radio off at boot" [Undecided,New]
  <pr0ph3t> popey, that's the bug, it is regarding an anomaly that I found when looking at syslog
  <popey> pr0ph3t: same on a live cd?
  <pr0ph3t> I have never tried it on live I don't think, why would it be different?
  <pr0ph3t> I will give it a go though, live usb is the same right?
  <pr0ph3t> popey, it's my first bug report so there might be something wrong or inappropriate, I apologise in advance
  <popey> its the best way to say its not anything to do with any fiddling you've done :)
  <popey> no, nothing wrong at all
  <popey> its great, very descriptive
  <popey> just trying to narrow it down
  <kaushal> popey: hi again
  <pr0ph3t> I'll load 10.10 then on live usb ok?
  <kaushal> sorry got disconnected
  <popey> pr0ph3t: probably a good idea
  <popey> pr0ph3t: could try 11.04 too, if broken in both, add that to the bug report
  <pr0ph3t> !lapsus
  <popey> bigcalm / gord / Myrtti http://popeydc.dyndns.org/gmaps/
  <pr0ph3t> it's a utility for asus laptops
  <dutchie> popey: wow, cool
  <kaushal> popey: please guide me about overcoming this issue --> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/557755/
   * cps noms on a beefburger
  <Myrtti> wicked
  <popey> kaushal: that looks poorly formatted sql query
  <kaushal> ok
  <popey> bit of a mess of carriage returns
  <kaushal> popey: shall i pastebin the impdp log
  <popey> no
  <gord> popey, ahem, already found diamonds :P
  <pr0ph3t> I would like to run a KDE applet from GNOME, I also need to compile it, is that possible?
  <pr0ph3t> when I do ./configure it asks me whether I have kde installed correctly
  <popey> heh
  <pr0ph3t> because of kde-config
  <popey> yay gord
  <popey> gord: is that your little house in the water
  <pr0ph3t> it's a KDE panel applet
  <gord> popey, yeah, not really a house, just something nice enough to keep the creepers away, just covers a deeep hole that goes to that diamond level
  <popey> :D
  <gord> i guess i also found gold and that new blue stuff too...
  <gord> i think i already found everything o_O
  <dutchie> lapis lazuli
  <Twinkletoes> The resolvconf package doesn't populate /etc/resolv.conf upon reboot, but only when manually restarting networking.  man resolv.conf gives a similar example to my setup (iface eth0 inet static) so I'm assuming I'm doing things right.  Why doesn't resolvconf work at reboot?
  <Gringo> Hi all need some help cant get no sound at all, someone recommended me this site but no luck http://www.uluga.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1661716
  <Gringo> guys
  <luklew> hi everybody
  <luklew> i'm searching channel where i can learn english :D
  <luklew> any suggestions?
  <MartijnVdS> ##english?
  <luklew> hmm
  <MartijnVdS> (I don't know if it existd)
  <MartijnVdS> (exists)
  <luklew> exists
  <luklew> thanks Martin :)
  <luklew> but i prefer some IT channel
  <luklew> ok, i'm going to learn :D
  <MartijnVdS> you seem to understand English already ;)
  <MartijnVdS> at least a little
  <Gringo> #ubuntu
  <bigcalm> popey: cool map
  <AlanBell> anyone got their haggis ready for tomorrow?
  <bigcalm> o/
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Euuuggghhhh!
  <bigcalm> Super supper
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm OK with the Whiskey but not the stuffed sheep's stomach bit.
   * bigcalm disappears for a bit
  <mgdm> Mine's still in Tesco :P
  <mgdm> but it shall be acquired
  <dutchie> the college bar quiz tomorrow night has a bottle of whisky as a prize
   * hamitron pokes Azelphur
  <hamitron> :)
  <DJones> mmmmmhh  Haggis
  <hamitron> today is a good day
  <MartijnVdS> hamitron: Ice Cube - Today Was a Good Day?
  <hamitron> no, just a good day ;)
  <hamitron> yesterday I was all poo poo nvidi
  <MartijnVdS> hamitron: ""Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.
  <MartijnVdS> I gotta say it was a good day
  <hamitron> nvidia
  <daubers> AlanBell: I'm working to $silly o'clock tomorrow night :(
  <hamitron> today I can tollerate them
   * Azelphur pokes hamitron
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Can't really see much benefit of this. http://www.networkworld.com/community/fedora-15-changes-network-device-naming
  <hamitron> Azelphur: it sorted now?
  <hamitron> last time I ask if it is
  <hamitron> :)
  <Azelphur> yup no more freezes
  <Azelphur> :D
  <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: consistent network device naming sounds good
  <Azelphur> so it was either X updates or busted fan
  <ali1234> ubuntu already implements it through a hack
  <ali1234> but when it goes wrong it's hard to fix (you have to edit an obscure file)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: But my devices are always consistently names anyway... ethX
  <TheOpenSourcerer> what was eth0 is eth0 tomorrow.
  <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: yes and if you replace a network card your networking breaks
  <ali1234> and to fix it you have to edit /etc/udev.7/70-persistent-network.conf
   * hamitron is starting to want intel graphics :( someone slap me for it plz
  <hamitron> less drivers hassles... and could try wayland :)
  <ali1234> this sucks. hopefully fedora changes will force the UI designers to make something actually useful for once.
  <gord> hamitron, intel drivers aren't perfect by a long shot
  <hamitron> no, but grass is always greener... I have nvidia ;)
  <popey> bigcalm: shame it takes so long to generate!
  <popey> bigcalm: it can be run on multiple cores, which is neat
  <bigcalm> popey: need moar power!
   * popey jumps on mc
  <hamitron> what is the aim of minecraft? ;/
  <hamitron> website makes it sound like "second life"
  <popey> its more like lego
  <dogmatic69> hamitron: the main aim is to waste months of you life :D
  <ali1234> minecraft is way better than second life
  <ali1234> and i never even played it and i know that
  <hamitron> it does look better, yeh
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> but what is the aim? ;/
  <popey> uses more resources :)
  <dogmatic69> survive
  <dogmatic69> dont get eaten by zombies
  <dogmatic69> collect cool stuff
  <hamitron> and it is a persistent server?
  <brobostigon> maybe make cool stuff aswell?
  <dogmatic69> ?
  <ali1234> clearly the aim of minecraft is to explore and learn about the world
  <popey> its probably the best ~10 I have ever spent on software
  <hamitron> if you log out, you can log back in and continue were you left off in multiplayer?
  <dutchie> yeah
  <dutchie> as long as no-one else has destroyed it :)
  <hamitron> is the aim to destroy another?
  <popey> you can
  <ali1234> sure, if you want
  <popey> some people have tournaments
  <hamitron> how often does it change night to day and back?
  <dogmatic69> hamitron: time continues on the server
  <popey> minutes
  <popey> 20 mins or so day
  <dogmatic69> 20 min for 24h
  <ali1234> minecraft is a sandbox game, second life is a distributed (and extremely slow and hard to use, and you have to pay *per triangle*) 3d editor
  <hamitron> so monsters come out at night... are they still there when day comes?
  <ali1234> no
  <popey> some
  <dogmatic69> some
  <hamitron> k :)
  <ali1234> oh rly?
  <popey> yeah, creepers dont die in sun
  <hamitron> I'm almost convinced :/
  <dogmatic69> spiders and creepers
  <popey> spiders dont
  <hamitron> can you kill them?
  <hamitron> :D
  <dogmatic69> and spiders can now climb walls :/
  <dogmatic69> you can punch, hit with tools, sward and tnt
  <dogmatic69> also build cannons with tnt
  <daubers> and you can make yourself a bow and arrow
  <hamitron> these blow up lego blocks?
  <dogmatic69> ye and the bow :)
  <popey> ya
  <popey> and snowballs
  <dogmatic69> "lego" blocks
  <popey> you can make armour
  <popey> out of the hide of cows you kill
  <dogmatic69> build sky scrapers or underground lairs
  <hamitron> are there any comunities with long term servers that never reset then?
  <dogmatic69> bacon... mmmm
  <popey> yes
  <popey> lots
  <dogmatic69> hamitron: you want to reset now and then
  <dogmatic69> eg: new version added new locks, can find them in explored places
  <hamitron> how often is that?
  <popey> when the author adds a new item, it sometimes only appears in newly generated "chunks" of the world
  <popey> a chunk is a 64x64x128 deep (iirc) block of the world
  <dogmatic69> sounds about right
  <popey> so if you update the server and there's new items, nobody will see them until they explore new parts of the map
  <popey> hamitron: you've seen the map on my box?
  <ali1234> what payment methods do they take?
  <popey> paypal iirc
  <hamitron> popey: no :/
  <dogmatic69> and if its well explored that could take 1h to get to
  <popey> credit card if you use that
  <ali1234> i cancelled my paypal account
  <popey> ali1234: you can use cc without a pp account
  <ali1234> visa?
  <hamitron> dogmatic69: but you can build another hut to move to a different part?
  <popey> hamitron: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current_day.png
  <dogmatic69> paypal just handles the payment, i dont have an account either
  <ali1234> ok, cool
  <popey> yeah ali1234
  <dogmatic69> ali1234: also the price is going up with each new version
  <hamitron> oh, so the world is a limited size?
  <popey> yes
  <popey> 8 times the surface of the earth
  <dogmatic69> its 15 euro atm, will be 25 when its done
  <hamitron> only 8? ;/
  <popey> heh
  <dogmatic69> 1 block == 1m3
  <ali1234> "ali1234" is taken FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
  <popey> lol
  <popey> you can literally walk for hours
  <popey> if you survive :)
  <gord> you could prolly set a minecraft game on peaceful, tape down w and spacebar and walk for years
  <hamitron> hamitron is taken :/
  <hamitron> So far 0 people have registered
  <gord> you would run out of hard-drive space long before the game runs out of precision ;)
  <dogmatic69> there is a youtube video like that, cart track runs in ff for 10min+
  <hamitron> is registration maybe broken?
  <ali1234> i just registered
  <popey> :)
  <hamitron> bah
  <hamitron> can't stand having different login names :/
  <popey> he's recently moved to amazon i think
  <popey> because his servers get a royal pounding
   * MartijnVdS is happy
  <MartijnVdS> u1ms now has Warner music as well as EMI in the EU store
  <MartijnVdS> still no Sony
  <MartijnVdS> but it's a lot better than it was
  <popey> sony :(
  <dogmatic69> hamitron: if dogmatic69 is not available, i dont use that site :D
  <hamitron> it is how I feel :/
  <MartijnVdS> popey: yeah meh.. but it actually contains popular music now, instead of mostly indie stuff
  <ali1234> purchased :]
  <ali1234> i'm going to waste so much time playing this game
  <jonsaint> need help for a friend........my friend has just installed ubuntu 10.10 server edition, is there a front end gooey that works??
  <MartijnVdS> jonsaint: for what?
  <jonsaint> for ubuntu server 10.10 edition#
  <MonsterKiller> does one have to restart to apply changes to host.deny?
  <MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: no
  <MonsterKiller> okay :) thanks
  <hamitron> I may wait till sales of the final version drop and it is open sourced ;)
   * hamitron is a patient guy
  <ali1234> jonsaint: why did he install server?
  <MartijnVdS> jonsaint: Ubuntu Server can be lots of kinds of server
  <MartijnVdS> jonsaint: some of those have configuration frontends, others only have config files to edit
  <DJones> jonsaint: A gui as in Gnome/KDE/XFCE etc?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> jonsaint: If you mean like the Gnome Desktop, just type "sudo apt-get install gnome-desktop-environment"
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Then wait a while ;-)
  <MartijnVdS> a LOOONG while :P
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Depends on how fast your Internet access is
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: and your disk
  <jonsaint> its ok, hes managed to do it. cheers all. once again you have all been superb.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Right then. Horizon time. Laterz
  <ali1234> anybody got a link to a grub2 usb image i can just dd?
  <popey> hamitron: i knew you wouldnt :)
  <daubers> I love it when hard data backs up your hypothesis \o/
  <hamitron> popey: you mean to say I look like a tight git? ;/
  <hamitron> need to think of a username anyway
  <hamitron> :/
  <hamitron> is the username showed in games popey?
  <hamitron> or is the in game name seperate
  <popey> yes
  <ali1234> lol which?
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> love "yes" answers \o/ ;)
  <MartijnVdS> use "xor" next time :)
  <hamitron> haha
  <popey> yes to usernames shown in game
  <hamitron> :/
  <hamitron> better not pick something dirty then
  <MartijnVdS> hamitron: "Hammy Tron"
  <ali1234> to answer my previous question: http://www.supergrubdisk.org/category/download/supergrub2diskdownload/
  <jonsaint> hi al (again) my friend wants to know how he can check whos connected to his box?
  <hamitron> command "w"
  <hamitron> or is that shell only?
  <jonsaint> he said hes currently in terminal and he wants to know whos connected to him
  <mgdm> 'who'
  <mgdm> or w, even
  <MartijnVdS> alias doctor=who
  <jonsaint> a friend of mine, hes got some 'virtual box' or something with ubuntu 10.10 server on there
  <ali1234> try 'netstat -tn'
  <jonsaint> thanks. il give him a call and get him to try it
  <hamitron> hmmm
  <ali1234> hmmmmmmm indeed
  <hamitron> still can't get a damn name to be accepted
  <hamitron> minecraft :(
  <hamitron> I am trying ;/
  <hamitron> must be loads of users?
  <ali1234> got my second choice (which i normally use when playing games anyway)
  <hamitron> all mine are taken
  <hamitron> :/
  <Myrtti> MINECRAAFFFTTTT
  <ali1234> does 'update-grub' also reinstall grub to the mbr?
  <ali1234> or does it just update the menus?
  <dutchie> uneducated guess based on install-grub being a separate thing: no
  <ali1234> dutchie: there is no install-grub, there is grub-install but that is part of grub package, not ubuntu scripts
  <dutchie> i did say "uneducated"
  <ali1234> awesome i can play minecraft now
  <ali1234> is the browser version known to not work properly on ubuntu?
  <ali1234> i just get a grey box
  <ali1234> like when the plugin crashes
  <popey> i suspect so
  <popey> i just grab the jar
  <popey> and run it with lots of memory
  <popey> java -jar -Xmx2048 -Xms2048 minecraft.jar
  <MartijnVdS> -oracle-bill-to=alan@popey.com
  <MartijnVdS> that's the new Java 7 feature, isn't it?
  <brobostigon> minecraft.net seems dead.i was just going to have a look.
  <ali1234> 2048M? i need to buy more memory
  <czajkowski> evening chaparoos
  <popey> brobostigon: www.minecraft.net
  <popey> ali1234: yeah
  <popey> 1GB might be enough
  <popey> depends how big the map is
  <ali1234> i'll still need to buy more memory
  <brobostigon> popey: yep, chromium shows me a dead page.
  <popey> :)
  <ali1234> i hit swap all the time as it is
  <ali1234> 4GB is no longer enough to run ubuntu
  <popey> fine here brobostigon
  <brobostigon> hmm.
  <popey> brobostigon: you actually using www.minecraft.net and not minecraft.net
  <popey> there was an issue with the latter
  <brobostigon> let me check and try again.
  <brobostigon> weird.
   * hamitron can't get the www one to work either
   * popey shrugs
  <popey> its often busy
  <popey> usually a refresh fixes it
  <hamitron> I got a name \o/
   * hamitron does a backflip
  <hamitron> Hamish_Itsonu was taken, but Ric_Hard wasn't
  <hamitron> weird ;/
  <hamitron> popey: is your server up 24/7?
  <hamitron> or do ppl here play in a common place?
  <hamitron> I got it :)
  <popey> hamitron: yes
  <popey> generally speaking its up
  <hamitron> popey: mind if I join? (need ip)
  <popey> please do
  <popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
   * dutchie needs to find out why minecraft pushes loadavg up to >7
  <MartijnVdS> because it threads a lot, as Java programs do
  <dutchie> that shouldn't cause performance to die terribly though, should it?
  <MartijnVdS> if they're all using a scarce resource (same bit of memory, the disk or CPU power)
  <dogmatic69> dutchie: because its java
  <dutchie> well i did think that a bit :)
  <dogmatic69> dutchie: guess when i ran minecraft on my server http://tinyurl.com/67ajqcx
  <dutchie> heh
  <dogmatic69> thats a 256mb slice btw
   * Neoti had a nice game of Magic: The gathering now off to bed.... night all 
  <popey> poor laptop is swapping as it generates the map
  <popey> gonna make it so it only generates the map once a day :)
  <gord> popey, have a different computer do it? not got a revo laying about? ;)
  <ali1234> how big is the map data directory?
  <hamitron> am I safe at the top of the tunnel of water?
  <gord> you are never safe
  <hamitron> I took 3 candles from you tunnels of doom btw ;/
  <hamitron> your*
  <hamitron> didn't know wtf I was doing
  <popey> ali1234: 707MB here
  <utrinqueparatus> Evening all
  <bigcalm> Since google have changed my work apps account into a gmail account, I can't have work and personal email open in the same browser at the same time
  <bigcalm> Damn you Google!
  <shauno> have you tried http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/access-two-gmail-accounts-at-once-in.html ?
  <bigcalm> No
  <moreati> bigcalm: google has limited multi-sign-in support, or use two browsers
  <bigcalm> shauno: ta for the link
  <utrinqueparatus> I think someone should make a better cbt detailing scripting languages. linuxcbt scripting edition is pants!!!
  <hamitron> it broke?
  <hamitron> black screen and music :/
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Why is Ubuntu Using Google Maps and not OpenStreetMaps? - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/why-ubuntu-using-google-maps-and-not-openstreetmaps
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] on Mac hints and tips and mini Ubuntu servers - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/01/24/mac-os-x-hints-and-tips/
  <czajkowski> sigh
  <hamitron> indeed
  <Azelphur> hamitron: hmm, I'm starting to get jumps again
  <Azelphur> CPU at 55C, GPU at 69C
  <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
  <popey> nn
  <brobostigon> nos da popey, sleep well.
  <dutchie> popey: going to update the get_iplayer link in http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-boxee-and-get_iplayer-on-the-acer-aspire-revo/ to point at http://www.infradead.org/get_iplayer/html/get_iplayer.html
  <dutchie> ?
  <dutchie> or alternatively note that it's in the repos nowadays
  <popey> the one in the repo is old
  <popey> iirc
  <cps> hello
  <popey> hi
  <cps> looks like another all-nighter for me then -.-
  <hamitron> popey: what was server again?
  <hamitron> (everything crashed and I didn't save it ;)
  <hamitron> nvm
  <popey> :)
   * cps shuffles his virgin trains-branded cards
  <hamitron> doesn't work with synergy+ either
  <hamitron> :/
  <cps> :\
  #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-25
  <popey> whats synergy?
  <Azelphur> popey: its like a network based kvm only no monitor
  <Azelphur> so its great for controlling more than 1 machine with 1 keyboard and mouse
  <Azelphur> hamitron: my pc just froze again
  <Azelphur> :(
  <dutchie> popey: seems to be only one minor release behind that mentioned on the web
  <dutchie> !info get-iplayer
  <lubotu3> get-iplayer (source: get-iplayer): download/stream available BBC iPlayer TV and radio programmes. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.78-1 (maverick), package size 130 kB, installed size 504 kB
  <dutchie> http://www.infradead.org/get_iplayer/html/get_iplayer.html "The latest version is v2.79"
  <popey> hmm
  <dutchie> (thanks for the reference btw)
  <dutchie> although if you particularly care, i can get round to sticking an updated version on my blog
  <popey> I use 2.79
  <popey> when i use it
  <popey> (rarely)
  <popey> well, it kinda just runs on my server, i never look at it
  <popey> and now bed
  <dutchie> night
  <exobuzz> xbmc has a nice iplayer plugin#
  <exobuzz> also doesnt use flash
  <exobuzz> (so can use any video acceleration if supported by hardware)
  <Azelphur> hehe, mythtv refuses to do that because bbc get smad.
  <exobuzz> ok get iplayer also doesnt use flash. but you can seek in xbmc
  <exobuzz> i aint heard a peep from the bbc yet. and if i did i would ignore it heh
  <Azelphur> they got the android app took down
  <exobuzz> i do the iplayer pluygin for xbmc these days. hence my comment
  <Azelphur> because it didn't use flash
  <exobuzz> yeh but its harder to take downa  bunch of source
  <Azelphur> indeed
  <Azelphur> I wish mythtv would support that stuff too
  <Azelphur> they won't do youtube and stuff out of piracy fears
  <exobuzz> even on my dekstop machine i use xbmc with iplayer instead of iplayer website
  <exobuzz> can do better bitrates out of the box
  <Azelphur> :P
  <exobuzz> and muhc less cpu/crashing of course
  <exobuzz> -typos
  <exobuzz> i had a couple of ales. sorry and new keyboard. its one of those at work here
  <exobuzz> keyboard of course.
  <exobuzz> ahem
  <Azelphur> hehe
   * exobuzz is just waiting for new emgd drive for joggler so that xbmc works
  <exobuzz> *please*
  <exobuzz> drive-r
  <exobuzz> any day now im sure. or week. they said q1 2011 on a forum post
  <exobuzz> there is a beta in meego source tree
  <exobuzz> (which worked wirth xorg 1.9 - woo - like with maverick properly without downgrading x - but then 3d stuff did crash a little)
  <exobuzz> just a brain dump anyway.. tis late
  <ujjain> Hoi. I have a question. If I am well off the pace, does that mean I am slow or fast?
  <dutchie> usually slow
  <dutchie> would have thought that would be pretty clear from the context, but i don't think i've ever heard it used to mean you're ahead
  <ujjain> It was confusing for me. YouÂ´re well of the pace in all 3 sectors.
  <ujjain> I thought it was a compliment, but I am no sure anymore. Probably not.
  <dutchie> well do ou think that you are doing well or not?
  <ujjain> Lewis Hamilton well off the pace in Australian GP practice | Sport ...
  <ujjain> 27 Mar 2009 ... Lewis Hamilton finished the second practice in 18th,
  <ujjain> ItÂ´s probably bad.
  <ujjain> I was not doing that well, so makes sense. I just thought Â´well of the paceÂ´ sounded like a complimnt in the first place.
  <dutchie> i can only apologise for our language :)
  <ujjain> Thanks :p
  <HazRPG> morning
  <Compacthack> Morning all
  <Compacthack> Given up on installing 10.10 on My Macbook Air via USB key, ordered an external USB DVD drive from apple
  <HazRPG> Compacthack: heh, you could have tried installing it via network if you have a regular desktop
  <HazRPG> Compacthack: what happens when you try installing it from USB anyways?
  <Compacthack> Can't boot onto the live usb key, so you have to copy the usb key to a partition
  <Compacthack> then boot into that partition
  <shauno> I had the same problem on my mbp (long story short, I don't have an optical drive anymore).  I ended up using vmware's raw disk access to install it in vmware, but onto a real partition
  <Compacthack> Interesting so its not just the MBA,
  <Compacthack> I can boot and run the installer, but apparently it has a bug, when you try and alter partitions that are on the same physical drive as the install partition it gets upset
  <Compacthack> Got 10.10 in virtualbox, but would like that native feel and touch.
  <HazRPG> hmm, it could just be the partitioning scheme that Mac's use
  <HazRPG> have you tried looking for a guide or tutorial or something on how to install ubuntu onto a MacBook Air
  <HazRPG> oh wait
  <HazRPG> just read your first part
  <HazRPG> hmmm... have you tried changing the BIOS to let it boot from USB?
  <shauno> there is no bios
  <HazRPG> or do you have an option at the BIOS that tells you "press ... to select boot drive" or similar
  <Knightdroid> Morning
  <Compacthack> the guide has big holes in it,
  <Compacthack> unfortunately
  <HazRPG> ah but there will be somehow - it'll just be hidden with a splash screen to stop people tampering
  <shauno> nope.  literally no bios.  it uses EFI instead
  <Compacthack> after a lot of digging in the forum I found that you can issue a unmount followed by a pile of switches and you can get through. But I thought for $83AUD I'll bit the bullet
  <HazRPG> Compacthack: have you tried this for example: http://www.ehow.com/how_6178465_boot-air-usb-external-drive.html
  <Compacthack> Thats very interesting, I think this was written pre the current vers of MBA, maybe if I did this, and installed the OS on an external drive the copied the installed OS onto a partition on the SSD then used rEFIt to boot into that partition
  <Compacthack> after reading that again, I think they are talking about a usb external drive as an external CD drive?
  <Compacthack> "Turn your laptop back on and insert the installation CD for the system  software you wish to use when booting from the external drive.
  <Compacthack> Read more:  How to Boot a MacBook Air From a USB External Drive | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6178465_boot-air-usb-external-drive.html#ixzz1C1mulAKW
  <Compacthack> "
  <HazRPG> yeah they are, however I think the same would apply for any USB bootable device
  <Compacthack> I thought too, but surprise surprise I think Apple have locked it down!
  <Compacthack> Maybe they want to sell more of there USB-DVD drives
  <shauno> heh.  trust me, dvd drives is not where their profit comes from :)
  <shauno> if the installer freaks out trying to alter partitions on the disk it's running from, have you tried setting the partitions up from within osx first, and then just skipping fdisk in the installer?
   * HazRPG agrees with shauno
  <Compacthack> Yep, have set paritions sizes in OSX, the installer won't even just format them, but the strange thing is that if you drop out of the installer and just run the system live you can use gparted to create, format the swap and ext4 root, but the installer still freaks out
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/01/24/italy_consumers_sue_microsoft/
   * Neoti has now purchased http://www.ebuyer.com/product/251310 with some additions, sata raid 1 mirror card with extra 1TB hdd and a Nvidia Geforce 9000 Dual Headed graphics card with HDMI out Plus 2 x Samsung Black 22" monitors.... Should be a beat when its working with Ubuntu 64Bit edition...
  <Neoti> Hey all
  <Myrtti> Neoti: have you checked the raid card works in linux?
  <Myrtti> though I haven't checked the latest hardware compatibility efforts too closely
  <DJones> Morning all
  <Compacthack> Morning DJones
  <DJones> Hi Compacthack
  <popey> Neoti: i agree with Myrtti. chances are that any sata raid card you buy from ebuyer under 100 quid will be fakeraid
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <DJones> Heya MooDoo
  <wintellect> Mornin
  <gord> http://forum.xda-developers.com/index.php the colours kind of remind me of somewhere else...
  <MartijnVdS> gord: still no 2.3 :(
  <Myrtti> atleast I have 2.2.2 now
  <Myrtti> got it yesterday, finally
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: But I want 2.3.x! :'(
  <Myrtti> sure, so do I, but I can only assume that 2.2.2 might have been a bug fix update that precedes 2.3
  <MartijnVdS> I want a countdown website
  <MartijnVdS> like Ubuntu has!
  <Myrtti> good luck with getting that ;]
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: yeah not even Googlers know
  <Neoti1> hey all im now back at my computer at work ...
  <Neoti1> thanks for the comments about the raid card... i think it works
  <Neoti1> though not sure ...
  <Neoti1> if it dont work... well hay... any one need a raid card and a 1 TB hard drive ? lol
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <DJones> Greetings czajkowski
   * Neoti1 just had to correct someone else's fooked up PHP code for creating files ... argh!!!! if you don't know what your doing leave me code alone!!!!!!!!!
  <Neoti1> howdy czajkowski hows things
  <czajkowski> Neoti1: not sooo bad
  <popey> Neoti: which raid card did you get in the end?
  <popey> anyone on natty fancy confirming bug 707320
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 707320 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Scrolling timeline flickers between current and top" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707320
   * popey pokes gord 
  <gord> bit busy trying to get places in for A2, sorry :(
  <popey> ok, nw
  <Silver_Fox_> Hello.
  <Neoti1> popey : i have chosen the starview raid card
  <davmor2> morning all
  <Neoti1> popey : http://www.ebuyer.com/product/123967
  <popey> Neoti1: that will be fakeraid
  <popey> almost entirely worthless
  <directhex> not worthless, just not a raid controller
  <popey> hence "almost"
  <directhex> no difference between it & a bare sata controller
  <directhex> remember the old rocketraid resistor trick?
  <popey> no
  <popey> did that "upgrade" your raid card?
  <directhex> popey, turned a bare ide controller into a raid card :)
  <popey> hah
  <Neoti1> popey : when it turns up i will install the other 1TB drive create a mirror and let you know ....
  <popey> i wouldn't do that
  <popey> is it only going to run Linux?
  <popey> i.e. no windows?
  <Neoti1> i have lernd from experiance that mirror raid on a standard desktop is price less ... as i have lost loads of databefore and im not doign that again so i have desided to mirror the drives and if one drive fails at least i can replace it and rebuild the array and not lose any data ... well thats the plan
  <popey> I am not saying RAID is not good to have
  <Neoti1> popey i will have  ubuntu 64bit on there
  <popey> Just that you haven't bought a RAID card
  <Neoti1> well if its not raid then they are about to be sued : Product Description
  <Neoti1> You get four RAID-ready internal Serial ATA ports for your high performance Serial ATA hard drives. Whether you need Striping (RAID 0), Mirroring (RAID 1), or both (RAID 0+1), this card has you covered. The PCISATA4R1 also supports RAID 1+S (Mirrored-Sparing), which automatically replaces a failed hard drive and rebuilds the system if a booting hard drive fails.
  <popey> it's not hardware raid, it's fakeraid
  <popey> !fakeraid
  <lubotu3> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
  <popey> read that :)
   * tugrik cries
  <tugrik> I learnt about fakeraid the hard way
  <popey> fakeraid cards are in effect software raid
  <popey> your cpu will be doing the work
  <tugrik> with the added fun of some of them not being supported by linux
  <popey> and as such you might as well use linux kernel md software raid
  <tugrik> in fact maybe all of them ?
  <Neoti1> ok ... recommend a good raid card for me to use ? and when this one turns up i will return it back to them ...
  <popey> they are now tugrik
  <popey> Neoti1: I'd use software raid
  <popey> linux md raid
  <popey> !raid
  <lubotu3> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
  <tugrik> really?  I set up a box over Christmas and fakeraid didn't appear to be supported then
  <Neoti1> !argh
  <popey> oh, same links :)
  <popey> tugrik: maybe it didnt have dmraid module /package installed?
  <popey> Neoti1: if you really want a decent raid card, go for anything over 100 quid :)
  <popey> lsi, adaptec.. 3ware
  <popey> any of those should be fine
  <matti> ;]
  <matti> popey: ;]
  <popey> matti: got a playbook yet? :)
  <matti> popey: No.
  <popey> :(
  <matti> popey: I am no longer with RIM ;]
  <popey> oh, i didnt realise
  <matti> popey: No worries ;)
  <popey> good ;)
  <matti> popey: I moved to Greenwich and work for Puppet Labs / Pinetec Limited (mcollective guys) / eBay / Gumtree etc ...
  <popey> nice
  <matti> popey: Its a small consultancy owned by a friend.
  <matti> popey: So, now I do everything and nothing ;]
  <matti> popey: Good fun ;]
  <popey> haha
  <matti> popey: I am also trying out myself in a role of senior... having dudes under me...
  <matti> popey: Learning how to trust people and how to delegate is the hardest...
  <Neoti1> ah i have heard alot of good things about 3ware i will order one of those i think ...
  <Neoti1> will let you know
   * matti is not really a people person either.
  <Neoti1> although adaptec are a bit cheaper ..
  <Neoti1> humm
  <matti> popey: If you fancy a coffee at some point, let me know ;] Coffee on me ;]
   * Neoti1 ponders about 3ware or adaptec.....
  <popey> \o/
  <matti> ivanka: hey ;]
   * DJones notes that coffee has been mentioned and wonders where brobostigan is?
  <matti> popey: But I have to admit, that the workload has indeed increased ;p I cannot slack whole day "compiling" ;p
  <ivanka> hi Matti
  <directhex> Neoti, only some adaptec cards are real raid
  <matti> directhex: Hey :)
  <directhex> Neoti, rule of thumb: only buy a card with a heatsink on it!
  <devush> planning to run 10.10 on mac-air with virtual box.  any concerns?
  <matti> ivanka: All good up there high in the sky at Millibank?
  <markjones> DJones, yes, i wonder where he is too
  <devush> i had currently 10.10 on vmware player under windows.
  <matti> ivanka: Pass my regards on jpds if/when you see him :)
  <devush> i will move it to mac-ar.
  <matti> jpds: :)
  <devush> mac-air i mean
  <ivanka> matti: just got in so it is too soon to tell :-) Will pass on regards as and when the opportunity arises
  <markjones> devush, should run fine in a VM
  <matti> ivanka: Thanks :)
  <czajkowski> ivanka: aloha there! long time no see
  <devush> ok. basically i want to run ubuntu as i always do, but taking the mac as it is very light. could not see any alternative. probably later on i will give try to get it directly on mac-air.
  <devush> i heard there are issues in installing it on mac-air. especially booting it from the external drive etc. so called bootcamp also does not works with ubuntu i heard.
  <popey> devush: i run ubuntu on my mac
  <popey> devush: its not perfect
  <popey> i use bootcamp
  <devush> popey, how you installed.
  <devush> ok.
  <markjones> I used Virtualbox
  <popey> i used bootcamp to partition the drive up, and then installed refit to give me a boot loader
  <popey> then installed ubuntu on the second partition
  <popey> its a macbook pro
  <devush> not perfect. is it better to run on the VM then. I will be doing java developement with eclispe etc. i will have 4GB macair.
  <popey> define "better" :)
  <devush> as there is no DVD etc. drive on mac-air. i heard that only the mac DVD drive can boot from other OS. So i am not sure, how i will boot from ubuntu to install it.
  <popey> ah yes, dunno how it works on the macbook air
  <czajkowski> *sigh* today is not going well
  <czajkowski> :(
  <devush> thanks anyway. i will update once i will get the mac delivered.
  <Neoti1> ok 3ware it is
  <markjones> devush, you do know that you can install ubuntu via a USB Drive?
  <popey> markjones: how do you get the mac to boot from usb?
  <ivanka> czajkowski: hello hello!
  <ivanka> czajkowski: are you better today?
  <markjones> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1948
  <popey> ta
  <popey> hang on
  <markjones> specifically: connect the device, restart, and immediately press and hold the Option key to access Startup Manager.
  <popey> thats for booting osx
  <popey> ahhh
  <popey> but it needs to be specially formatted?
  <popey> gpt
  <czajkowski> ivanka: yup a lot thanks. How are things with you ?
  <devush> markjones, i will try. but i heard only the MAC provided USB drives works for the booting other OS.
  <devush> popey, yes you are correct.
  <devush> current and the new mac-air etc. supports osx and through bootcamp win7.  and if you can afford to get the mac-DVD drive, then you can boot iso images like ubuntu.
  <ivanka> czajkowski: glad to hear it. Things are pretty hectic as usual but I am managing to keep my head (well, my nose at least!) above water :-)
  <devush> i asked earlier also. is there anybody with HP Tx2. i have issues and problems with mouse with 10.10.  reverting back to 10.04 works fine. has to do with touchscreen and mouse combination.
  <Neoti1> who was it who put me on the XBMC .....
  <Neoti1> i am using it and the XBMC remote control for andriod just wanted more info on it,
  <markjones> devush, tried an older kernel?
  <czajkowski> ivanka: excellent to hear
  <devush> no. never thought of it.
  <markjones> that seemd to fix my wireless driver issue
  <devush> is that to replace after the installation. or is there another image for 10.10
  <markjones> when you boot grub, it gives you the option to hit escape, choose a kernel from there
  <markjones> it usually gives you 2 seconds to ht escape, then boots normally
  <devush> markjones, thanks, i noticed that. i will give the try.
  <markjones> no problem
   * davmor2 prods czajkowski you need some camomile tea to help easy your muscles down :)
  <czajkowski> davmor2: I dont run PPA on work macine
  <gord> i just watched a video of gnome shells daily build from yesterday, haven't really paid attention since GUADEC... i mean, i don't want to sound petty, but at this point i'm pretty sure they could use unity's translation strings even
  <davmor2> gord: oh where the video at please
  <davmor2> czajkowski: What?
  <czajkowski> davmor2: dont want to install LO on work machine
  <gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn-iROFqNho&feature=player_embedded
  <davmor2> czajkowski: I don't think I asked you too honest
  <Myrtti> while true; do rsync -avuz --progress  ~/.minecraft/saves/World1 ~/.minecraft/tarbackup; tar cvjf ~/.minecraft/minecraft-`date +%s`-world1.tar.bz2 ~/.minecraft/tarbackup;echo "done for now";sleep 30m;done \o/
  <popey> :)
  <jpds> Wouldn't cron do it better?
  <Myrtti> I don't want it to be chugging when I'm not playing
  <Myrtti> useless overhead
  <popey> check for the lock file before tarring it up?
  <popey> if the lock file is there, you're playing
  <Myrtti> this was about the best I could do with my concentration potential of an earthworm I currently have
  <gord> i have had bad experiences with things reading the minecraft save files whilst its running, can corrupt all your saves
  <popey> i might just take a daily snapshot
  <gord> minecraft save directories are fun like that
  <popey> i cant figure out how to turn dirt into farmland
  <Myrtti> with a hoe?
  <popey> i see someone else (hamitron?) has, and i fed his wheat which is now fully grown
  <popey> i must be doing it wrong
  <popey> it just digs the dirt up
  <Myrtti> you are doing it wrong
  <Myrtti> use it like you'd put torches up
  <Myrtti> or build stuff
  <popey> doh
  <popey> right click!
  <Myrtti> yeah.
  <popey> thank you!
  <Myrtti> np
   * Myrtti still thinks #ubuntu-uk-minecraft would be in order ;-)
  <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
   * popey joins
  <shauno> Myrtti: glad you cleared that up, actually.  just flicked past, and for a moment, thought they were talking about farmville :/
  <Myrtti> shauno: oh no, now you've ruined it for me
  <Myrtti> these germans have funky drinks
  <brobostigon> elaborate Myrtti ?
  <brobostigon> please.
  <Myrtti> carbonated apple juice, Volvic water with peach ice tea flavour
  <brobostigon> yep.
  <Myrtti> I wasn't too much into the lager with the lime lemon flavour
  <Myrtti> I'm not a lager person.
  <brobostigon> urghh. ingermany it would be a pilsner, lager doesnt exist in germany by law,
  <brobostigon> and cant exist, because of how its made nd lagers ingrediants.
  <Myrtti> well whatever that tastes like lager
  <brobostigon> ok. no worries.
  <Myrtti> I'm not a beer person :-D
  <brobostigon> :)
  <brobostigon> i am not a lager man, but i do like a good pilsner.
  <czajkowski> awww I like the iecraft chater
  <czajkowski> tis amusing
  <Myrtti> czajkowski: I'm sure it'll still be here ;-)
  <davmor2> Myrtti: no what you need is an ubuntu-uk minecraft server :D
  <brobostigon> davmor2: doesnt popey have that already, :)
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: :D
  <davmor2> brobostigon: no idea
  <Myrtti> I might suggest setting up a minecraft server to my workmates
  <Myrtti> since they play online poker and stuff every fortnight
  <brobostigon> davmor2: popeydc.dyndns.org, or similer i believe.
  <Myrtti> I've not yet found a game that I'd enjoy playing with them, but minecraft is nice
  <Gringo> HI guys i need help anything simple to get my soundcard working? i have no sound at all voulume is turned up etc i have just installed ubuntu my soundcard is Realtek ALC887
  <davmor2> Gringo: do you have a Graphics card with hdmi out?
  <brobostigon> Gringo: have you checked with lshw and lspci to see if its being recognised.
  <Gringo> no hdmi and have no idea what lshw is im quite new to ubuntu plus all the commands
  <Gringo> my gfx card is 8800GT
  <brobostigon> Gringo: can you open a terminal please.
  <Gringo> sure
  <brobostigon> Gringo: sudo lshw    ,and see if its lists your soundcard,
  <Gringo> escription: Audio device
  <Gringo>              product: N10/ICH 7 Family High Definition Audio Controller
  <Gringo>              vendor: Intel Corporation
  <Gringo>              physical id: 1b
  <Gringo>              bus info: pci@0000:00:1b.0
  <Gringo>              version: 01
  <Gringo>              width: 64 bits
  <Gringo>              clock: 33MHz
  <Gringo>              capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list
  <Gringo>              configuration: driver=HDA Intel latency=0
  <Gringo>              resources: irq:16 memory:fdff8000-fdffbfff
  <Gringo> opps sorry for spamming
  <Myrtti> pastebin is a friend
  <brobostigon> Gringo: thats good, it knows your soundcard exists, ok, try "alsamixer" in terminal and seeif  its showingy the right volumecontrols.
  <Gringo> cannot load mixer controls: Invalid argument
  <cps> afternoon peeps :)
  <brobostigon> Gringo: hmm, ok. sorry to have to ask you to do this, but try "dmesg" interminal andlook forsoundcard errors, its going spit out alot of output.
  <Gringo> my soundcard works fine on windows 7, what im i looking for? will it say error?
  <Gringo> whats the pastebin link?
  <brobostigon> Gringo: itwill mention your seound device, which you found with lshw.
  <brobostigon> !pastebin
  <lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
  <brobostigon> Gringo: sorry about this, real life calls.
  <brobostigon> Gringo: there loads ofpeoplehere whocanhelp you further,
  <Gringo> thats ok i appreciate your help  http://paste.ubuntu.com/558119/
  <brobostigon> sorry, :)
   * brobostigon prods cps 
  <Gringo> any idea guys?
  <davmor2> Gringo: do you have a headset for skype plugged in at all?
  <Gringo> i have a headset but not plugged in
  <davmor2> Gringo: just trying to rule out the obvious first
  <cps> brobostigon: hey :)
  <Gringo> i have just the green socket connected, which connected to my sub
  <Gringo> no sorry, green connects to my monitor
  <Gringo> and a lead from my monitor connect to my sub
  <bigcalm> Hi peeps
  <Gringo> any ideas?
  <brobostigon> back.
  <brobostigon> cps: :)
  <cps> wb brobostigon :)
  <Gringo> brobostigon did you see the pastebin? wb
  <brobostigon> Gringo: let me scroll up and get it.
  <brobostigon> got it
  <brobostigon> Gringo: do you have several soundcards/chips like onboard for example.
  <Gringo> my soundcard is on board and thats the only 1 i have which works spot on with windows 7
  <brobostigon> imean at all,working or not.
  <Gringo> no i dont just 1 soundcard
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <Gringo> how come that alsa mixer didnt work?
  <brobostigon> thats weird,because the kernel is loading hda, which is for intel sound.
  <brobostigon> when yours is realtek.
  <Gringo> when i type alsamixer i get this ...    cannot load mixer controls: Invalid argument
  <brobostigon> Gringo: not sure,  seems alsa either cant pickup the mixer, or the soundcard as a while is working somehow. i think.
  <brobostigon> Gringo: try "sudo alsamixer"
  <Gringo> same message
  <Neoti|work> hey all
  <Neoti|work> dam work computer crashed on me
  <brobostigon> Gringo: what is your sound card model again, please.
  <brobostigon> afternoonings Neoti|work
  <Neoti|work> afternoon
  <Gringo> Realtek ALC887
  <Neoti|work> i just put xbmc on my pc and am controlling it from my andriod phone ... how cool is that ...
  <brobostigon> Gringo: so why is lshw sounding it as a intel,syou pasted earlier.
  <Gringo> no idea
  <Gringo> not sure if thats the model or what but i have gigabyte onboard sound and io think this is the card Intel N10/ICH 7
  <popey> oooer, windows key opens up unity bar now!
  <popey> popey approves
  <brobostigon> i did askearlier if you hadmore than one sound card/cipearlier andyou said no.
  <brobostigon> chip*
  <Gringo> i only have 1 soundcard  i built this pc buddy and trust me i only have 1 soundcard the one thats built in
  <brobostigon> popey: any ideas ?
  <popey> hmm?
  <brobostigon> Gringo: i am not sure, sorry. i dont know how to proceed.
  <Gringo> neither do i lol
  <Gringo> i had a look at this but cant get it to work http://www.uluga.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1661716
  <brobostigon> popey: sorry, any ideas on Gringo's issue.
  <popey> nope, sorry
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: you mind find this useful  http://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/29910175720669185
  <Gringo> how can i get alsamixer working?
  <brobostigon> Gringo: its a moreunderlying issue, maybe with alsa itself.
  <brobostigon> or the underlying drivers.
  <Gringo> back to windows 7 then...
  <Gringo> thanx for your help anyway.
  <brobostigon> Gringo: i am sure it canbe fixed, justgret holdof the right people.
  <Gringo> any other chat room i can check?
  <brobostigon> Gringo: for example, maybe youneed totellalsa whichsound card/chip to use.i wouldpop over to the main ubuntu room.
  <brobostigon> i ont know if there is an alsa irc room.
  <Gringo> #ubuntu
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <brobostigon> itmight be quite busy, sobe patient.
  <gord> makes me sad that there is no package for Boodler :( http://boodler.org
  <Neoti|work> !ubuntu
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
  <Neoti|work> thought id do that for the hell of it ...
  <popey> :)
  <kazade> afternoon everyone
  <popey> lo
  <kazade> how's things popey ?
  <popey> meh
  <popey> lua
  <Azelphur> I did some electronics and I didn't break it \o/
  <popey> comments?
  <kazade> lua?
  <kazade> as in the scripting language?
  <popey> yes
  <popey> and Love
  <kazade> never tried it :)
  <kazade> I don't suppose anyone knows how to get a Gtk+ progress bar to redraw itself?
  <Azelphur> popey: MattJ is very into LUA (and XMPP)
  <Azelphur> from what I understand it's comparable to python
  <popey> ta
  <Gringo> #ubuntu
  <Gringo> #ubuntu
  <X3N> kazade: why do you need to redraw it?
  <popey> X3N: you on the loco contacts list?
  <X3N> nope
  <popey> you should be
  <kazade> X3N, well, I have a progress bar on a form, and I have a loop that does stuff. If I create a progress bar and set it to pulse, it won't get redrawn until after the loop (thus missing the point)
  <kazade> I'm guessing I need to either redraw during the loop, or move the loop into another thread
  <popey> X3N: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2011-January/005179.html could you ping dholbach some one-line answers to those?
  <popey> or daviey
  <gord> kazade, as long as you are blocking the glib mainloop with your loop, it won't be able to run
  <gord> kazade, so yes, either move your loop into a different thread or convert it to a gsource based loop
  <X3N> popey: I think that's more of a Daviey thing as elected contact n'all
   * X3N cop-out #1
  <X3N> I'll do it actually, shouldn't take a minute
   * AlanBell has HAGGIS \o/
   * BigRedS struggles to feign envy
   * dutchie is missing haggis to go and see a talk on AI by Eliezer Yudkowsky
  <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
  <BigRedS> G'morning brobostigon!
  <brobostigon> hey BigRedS :)
  <BigRedS> morning! How's it going
  <BigRedS> ?
  <brobostigon> BigRedS: not bad, my eczema is calming,the infection is going. how about you?
  <popey> X3N: sure
  <popey> AlanBell: jealous!
  <BigRedS> brobostigon: Whoop! I'm needlessly busy :/ Everything I do appears to be a tad more complex than it should be
  <X3N> popey: done it :)
  <brobostigon> BigRedS: hmm, challenging.
   * popey hugs X3N 
  <czajkowski> *poke*/c
  <czajkowski> grrr
  <MichealH> Hi all
  <MichealH> :)
  <BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, it's like everything's working at just-a-bit-less-plain-simple-than-it-might-be
  <BigRedS> which reminds me (for some reason) is there a u-uk fosdem somethingorother happening?
  <brobostigon> BigRedS: hmm, ohwell.
  <BigRedS> keeps me out of mischief :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <jacobw> evening
  <brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw
  <jacobw> whats up brobostigon ?
  <brobostigon> jacobw: not alot, just annoyed and frustrated, really. and you?
  <jacobw> brobostigon: not so bad, i'm on a course for my job so i'm being overloaded with jargon
  <brobostigon> jacobw: we can help.if you need helpwith jargon.
  <jacobw> hehe
  <jacobw> LO is at a stable release :)
  <jacobw> i'll have to swap out OO.o on my machine with LO when i get the chance
  <brobostigon> when itried to install libreoffice here, it automaticcly downloaded fromdebian experimental, and got rid of oo.o, and automaticlly replaced it.
  <brobostigon> made it very easy,
  <jacobw> on debian?
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <jacobw> hmm i can imagine debian have been proactive in replacing OO.o
  <jacobw> LO is going to be in 11.04 though isn't it?
  <brobostigon> jacobw: idont know, it doesnt seem to be in sid yet, only in experimental.
  <AlanBell> jacobw: so it would seem
  <brobostigon> http://www.osnews.com/story/24325/Port_Gallium3D_to_Haiku_Earn_2000_/
  <brobostigon> :)
  <popey> libreoffice is already in 11.04 :)
  <jacobw> \o/
  <popey> alan@wopr:~$ which libreoffice
  <popey> /usr/bin/libreoffice
  <brobostigon> wopr :)
  <popey> :)
  <czajkowski> anyonehere in Millbank ?
  <czajkowski> *anyone
  <gord> is libreoffice that good? i see a lot of people talking about it but i'm not sure why the buzz is there
  <popey> its faster IMO
  <brobostigon> and smaller
  <czajkowski> may install it tonight on home machines
  <czajkowski> fought with OO all day long today
  <popey> its not that different of course
  <gord> i don't use either, open office annoyed me too much for me to consider something that was based on it really worth using
  <moreati> gord; Which bits bugged you? (also often annoyed)
  <davmor2> gord, popey: I like the fact they include the launcher for all the apps again, it mean you can add the launcher to app launcher and open any of the office apps from it
  <gord> it would be easier for me to name the bits that didn't bug me moreati ;)
  <moreati> gord: fairy knuth
  <popey> W: Bizarre Error - File size is not what the server reported 19441 9721
  <popey> nice, thank you apt
  <popey> gord: is the workspace switcher deliberately precious about being at the bottom of the list of apps in the launcher?
  <gord> popey, yeah, its part of a group at the bottom, it'll eventually hint that you can't move it outside of its group but i don't think the code for that is done yet
  <lazarus_> http://img696.imageshack.us/i/screenshotly.png/
  <kvarley> is there a way to stop an apt-get install command when it's downloading a large data file?
  <kvarley> nvm I got it
  <MichealH> CTRL-C :P No, That would break dpkg
  <popey> no it wouldnt
  <popey> if its just downloading you can kill it anytime
  <awilkins> Graaaaaaagh. Why do managers have to think that managing == meddling. Sometimes managing is LEAVING me ALONE until something pops out......
  <awilkins> "things not going well - _must change stuff_"
  <awilkins> "More meetings! They fix EVERYTHING!"
  <awilkins> /me takes a chill pill. Literally.
  <awilkins> A good thing I can dry-swallow.
  <MartijnVdS> pump up the valium!
  <pr0ph3t> hi all
  <pr0ph3t> when I start cairo-dock my title bar disappears, if I quit it and restart the window manager it reappears, anyone know why r how I can have a look at what happens from the console?I'm running compiz
  <X3N> you could try compiz --replace --debug and then start cairo-dock
  <HazRPG> woot! New internets :D
   * DJones looks and thinks, nope same old internet
  <HazRPG> heh, true... but my connections to it has changed ;)
  <HazRPG> better, faster, stronger...
  <HazRPG> :P
  <HazRPG> (new ISP)
  <DJones> Ah, that maybe explains the reduction in HazRPG@....[ping timeout] :)
  <HazRPG> :P
  <DJones> who are you with now
  <HazRPG> I've gone for an average ping rating of ~80ms to ~23ms
  <HazRPG> can't complain with that :P
  <HazRPG> I've gone with BE
  <HazRPG> or BeThere, or however you want to call them
  <HazRPG> (o2 basically I think?)
  <DJones> Heh
  <gord> i'm on be, they are pretty good
   * HazRPG wonders if its worth getting extra IP's to have a bridged connection instead of a NAT one ...
  <gord> i mean, just bt resellers, but they don't cram up the tubes with bt crap
  <HazRPG> gord: Yeah, my friend was with them too - and he highly recommended them.
  <HazRPG> gord: lucky git could get 24Mbps :/
  <gord> i get 3
  <gord> thats fine, thtas more than sky were getting me (1)
  <HazRPG> yeah I've gone from 5 to ~9
  <gord> honestly don't feel the need for a higher bandwidth right now, maybe when there is a HD film streaming service thats not encoded at stupid low bitrates
  <HazRPG> wow, really only 3?
  <HazRPG> gord: haha you mean like stage6 use to be...
  <HazRPG> DJones: I was with UKOnline before this, but had no choice but to leave them due to being bought out by Sky
  <DJones> HazRPG: I'm on sky & found them better than anybody else, I guess it depends on individual circumstances
  <HazRPG> UK Online /were/ the best ISP I've ever had to date, no other ISP would ever let you ring them at silly o'clock and get grade A service from people who knew what they were talking about... they didn't do the usual "well try this, try that", they usually asked "what have you tried so far?" which to me is a far better question to ask
  <gord> sky aren't too bad, they are just too big, if you have a problem with them then you have mounds of red tape and support bots to get through
  <gord> i just log onto the be irc channel though my phone wifi and ask whats ging on :)
  <HazRPG> DJones: I was on hold with Sky for about 2hrs to just ask about the deal you could get to stick with them, or to grab your MAC code... I was going to stick with them, but after being on the phone for 2hrs... I gave in and just asked for the Mac code outright
  <HazRPG> gord: haha yeah I logged onto the BE irc while I was on hold to sky, and they managed to convince me to go with them xD
  <DJones> gord: I expected that a couple of months after a problem, but must admit they were excellent, even knew & accepted that I wasn't using windows & talked me through things,took 10 miutes to diagnose the fault & arrange to send replacement hardware out
  <HazRPG> DJones: well if I think correctly, Sky and UK Online have the same phone staff if I recall...
  <DJones> HazRPG: I must have struck lucky :)
  <HazRPG> cos the guy I spoke to on the phone was exactly the same guy I always seem to be transferred to, heh first question he asked was "how's the ol' ubunut scene treatin ya dude" after I'd say "hi"
  <HazRPG> ya don't get service like that much these days :P
  <HazRPG> almost felt bad for leaving
  <HazRPG> only thing that miffed me was that their lines are only open till 11pm - which to me is useless when I can be up till around 4am sometimes
  <HazRPG> oh wow, there's a new mumble coming out soon! :o
  <Neoti> hey lazarus_> how did you get the CPY mem and network stats on the left whats the program ?
  <BigRedS> I've just moved my /etc/X11/xorg.conf, done /etc/init.d/gdm restart, and been returned to a login screen claiming I'm already logged in. Having authenticated, I've just found myself in *exactly* the state I was in before restarting
  <BigRedS> shell sessions still open etc. Is this X being really clever, or does restarting gdm not do what I think it does any more?
  <BigRedS> Ah, and now I keep looping through the above. Perhaps I broke something
  <Azelphur> I have separate / and /home, so I can just reinstall my OS right? :P
  <DJones> Yup
  <DJones> Just mount / & format in the partitioning, mount /home without formatting
  <Azelphur> fun
  <Azelphur> I think I might have a bad install, having a few weird issues
  <Azelphur> and I know I installed from a dodgy flash drive
  <Azelphur> \o/
  <BigRedS> Should the proprietary ATI driver from the 'Additional Drivers' wotsit provide enough goodness for me to us the ATI control centre?
  <MartijnVdS> yes
  <MartijnVdS> but why would you want to use that piece of.. trash :)
  <BigRedS> So I can use my second monitor
  <BigRedS> 'cause the gnome way certainly doesn't work, and I'm pretending it's possible to do without writing my own xorg.conf
  <MartijnVdS> uhr
  <MartijnVdS> why doesn't gnome work?
  <MartijnVdS> it should just work
  <MartijnVdS> with no xorg changes
  <BigRedS> Yeah, and has done elsewhere
  <BigRedS> IIRC it asks me to logout, when I log in again both monitors are set to the same resolution
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: strange, I've never experienced that
  <MartijnVdS> only in very old versions of Ubuntu
  <BigRedS> Nah, this is maverick
  <BigRedS> ah, no, on logging back in it's back to just one monitor working
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: then you go to monitor prefs, set it up the way you want, click "apply"?
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: works here :)
  <BigRedS> I've seen suggestions that the catalyst issue is the result of some bug fixed in fresh-from-git X but i'd really tather not do that
  <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: Window pops up. "Please log ou and log back in again"
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: is that the exact text?
  <BigRedS> I'm wondering if this is fixed by not using the proprietary driver
  <MartijnVdS> uhr yes
  <BigRedS> er. s/log ou and/log out and/
  <MartijnVdS> That works fine with the free driver
  <popey> Azelphur: a dodgy usb drive wouldn't explain this
  <BigRedS> oh. The additional drivers thing subtly says I'm not using that driver either
  <Azelphur> popey: :(
  <MartijnVdS> popey: RAMmie Dodgers might ;)
  <BigRedS> I've no idea what's going on. One day I'll understand X. Just as wayland becomes popular :)
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "don't install the proprietary drivers, unless you really need a feature it provides"
  <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: MartijnVdS I took the Alternative drivers wotsit telling me I was using an different version to suggest I was using a/the free one
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: can you pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
  <BigRedS> FWIW, I did this before I started : http://pastebin.com/q2PCE2aL
  <BigRedS> 'course, that's less useful now :)
  <MartijnVdS> yeah :)
  <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: http://avi.co/stuff/Xorg.0.log  and http://avi.co/stuff/xorg.conf
  <BigRedS> cheers!
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: so X is using the fglrx (non-free) driver
  <BigRedS> mm, this is immediately post-reboot having told 'additional drivers' to try non-free
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I'd recommend uninstalling all packages with "fglrx" in the name, then rebooting
  <MartijnVdS> like I said, don't install non-free drivers unless you REALLY need them
  <MartijnVdS> (too bad Ubuntu "advertises" them on first boot :))
  <BigRedS> Yeah, I already had when you said that and figured I'd give it a go :) Besides it looked like free wasn't working either :)
  <MartijnVdS> but free we can debug :P
  <BigRedS> Yeah, I love that. "Your system's too free for my liking. Have some closed-source bugs"
  <MartijnVdS> haha :)
  <MartijnVdS> "Hi, we're the Ubuntu community and we HATE freedom."
  <BigRedS> haha, it does sort-of look like that.
  <BigRedS> Ooooh. Now it appears neither monitor is used :) both are sleeping
  <MartijnVdS> cool
  <BigRedS> I get a brief flash of the splash screen, then they go into power save
  <MartijnVdS> then it should come upt with a "broken X config" soon
  <BigRedS> oh, cool
  <MartijnVdS> just choose the option that's most like "repair"
  <BigRedS> yeah, I recall seeing that before I think
  <BigRedS> hm, still no picture
  <BigRedS> can I force this from a shell?
  <BigRedS> rming xorg.conf and restarting gdm springs to mind...
  <BigRedS> ahhh
  <BigRedS> [    19.162] (EE) No drivers available.
  <MartijnVdS> weird
  <MartijnVdS> do you still have xserver-xorg-video-radeon installed?
  <MartijnVdS> (package name)
  <BigRedS> yup
  <MartijnVdS> but.. not even the "Repair X" but comes up?
  <MartijnVdS> that uses VESA
  <MartijnVdS> so it should always work
  <BigRedS> mmm. xorg.conf still reckons it should be loading fglrx
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: try commenting that section (or removing it)
  <BigRedS> just doing that. briefly got that lovely broken-X multicolour static, but it ended up with a login box
  <BigRedS> whoo! :)
  <BigRedS> And, finally, I have both monitors working.
  <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
  <BigRedS> Thanks! You've substantially more patience than I do :)
  <BigRedS> I've been swearing loudly at X approximately nightly for the past few days. Now I blame ATi
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I've solved the problem 600 times before ;)
  <BigRedS> haha
  <MartijnVdS> it always boils down to "But.. it OFFERED to install the non-free driver"
  <MartijnVdS> "Yes, but you should have said no"
  <MartijnVdS> "But it OFFERED"
  <MartijnVdS> "That explains the shipment of herbal viagra that's here for you"
  <MartijnVdS> "<silent coworker>"
  <BigRedS> haha
  <BigRedS> Yeah, any issue on any desktop at work is the fault of Ubuntu and its fascination with proprietary software
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: also, I'm the designated Ubuntu helpdesk :(
  <MartijnVdS> at work
  <BigRedS> Ah. Nah, we just rant at it, every so often someone installs whatever it is they'd rather use for a few weeks, then gets told to go back to ubuntu
  <MartijnVdS> hah
  <MartijnVdS> everyone used "a" distro before I came there
  <MartijnVdS> then everyone switched to Ubuntu
  <MartijnVdS> because Gentoo's too hard
  <MartijnVdS> and Debian
  <MartijnVdS> and [insert distro of the week]
  <mgdm> and Gentoo kills baby polar bears
  <mgdm> and penguins, no doubt
  <BigRedS> haha
  <BigRedS> we've a gentooite
  <BigRedS> keeps telling us off for not compiling things or something
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: and it's for people who add spoilers to perfectly good cars.
  <mgdm> http://funroll-loops.info/
  <mgdm> MartijnVdS: aye, exactly :)
  <MartijnVdS> :)
  <mgdm> bewarned, NSFW link :P
  <MartijnVdS> oh we had a few FreeBSDites
  <BigRedS> We've a gentoo, debian, arch, ubuntu and indifferent.
  <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
  <BigRedS> Mostly united in a distaste of RH
  <mgdm> I'm currently not enjoying Ubuntu due to (probably) fglrx
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: I just fixed BigRedS's fglrx problem by having him remove it ;)
  <BigRedS> it's a good fix :)
  <mgdm> Oh, wait, no, I'm using the radeon driver
  <mgdm> it + external monitor = crashy fun times
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: I demand proof! :)
  <mgdm> MartijnVdS: my laptop. Plugin in external monitor to DisplayPort. Attempt to use external monitor. X locks up, solid.
  <mgdm> it only works if the monitor is there at boot
  <mgdm> switching users also locks up
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: ah displayport
  <MartijnVdS> newfanglyness!
  <mgdm> same happens with the VGA port, FWIW
  <MartijnVdS> what kind of radeon chip do you have?
  <mgdm> one sec, reminding myself
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: lspci | grep VGA
   * popey tickles MartijnVdS 
   * MartijnVdS jumps
  <popey> \o/
  <BigRedS> then spend weeks trying to make xterm big enough to see the whole line ;)
  <mgdm> ATI Technologies Inc Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: can you ssh into the machine when X hangs? what does /var/log/Xorg.0.log say?
  <mgdm> I don't have another machine handy to ssh in with
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: smart phone?
  <mgdm> Hmm, didn't think of that
  <mgdm> "[  8558.971] (II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch" is the last thing in the old log
  <MartijnVdS> that's what it should do
  <MartijnVdS> except for the crash bit afterward
  <mgdm> then the screen goes all stripey and the machine is (I believe) still alive, but X is b0rked
  <MartijnVdS> so it's just misconfiguring the chip
  <MartijnVdS> might have to file a bug for that :/
  <mgdm> apparently the same hardware works fine in Fedora
  <mgdm> I'm going to give that a shot some time
  <mgdm> another possibility is turning off compiz
  <MartijnVdS> back to the 20th century ;)
  <mgdm> indeed
  <glynn-home> lx is on his way to the office
  <czajkowski> popey: you going to font event?
  <popey> dunno
  <hamitron> freen monsters in my pool :/
  <hamitron> green*
  <bigcalm> Creepers
  <hamitron> will they leave?
  <hamitron> without rearranging everything
  <bigcalm> Not if they see you
  <bigcalm> If you can kill them without them blowing up, they might drop gunpowder. Which you can then use to make tnt
  <hamitron> I got expensive wooden panelling in that room ;/
  <bigcalm> Kill spiders. Use their string to make a bow
  <bigcalm> Fire arrows at the creepers
  <hamitron> they gone \o/
  <hamitron> is that normal for them to arrive? ;/
  <czajkowski> popey: k
  <popey> hamitron: yes, if its dark
  <hamitron> never go swimming in the dark... kids ;/
  <cps> ergh
   * cps yawns
  <cps> hamitron: make me a sammich
  #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-26
  <d3ngar_> hey there
  <d3ngar_> I have a touchpad that I would like to switch off
  <d3ngar_> Can't see it in the  System > Pref > Mouse
  <andylockran> howdt
  <d3ngar_> this channel rocks
  <dutchie>  [31396.166223] Valid eCryptfs headers not found in file header region or xattr region
  <dutchie> [31396.166234] Either the lower file is not in a valid eCryptfs format, or the key could not be retrieved. Plaintext passthrough mode is not enabled; returning -EIO
  <dutchie> this doesn't look good
  <diplo> morning all
  <dutchie> morning
  <BigRedS> g'morning!
  <ujjain> Is there a word for when a man does everything a woman says? He is... not smitten, but...
  <diplo> under the thumb
  <ujjain> by the balls, under the thumb, but itÂ´s not what I meant, but I guess IÂ´ll never find the word likes this :P
  <BigRedS> there's a term that's less... derisory.. but I can't remember what it is
  <shauno> ujjain: in my house, we'd just call it trained :)
  <ujjain> hehehehe :p
  <HazRPG> mornin
  <TheOpenSourcerer> This is quite interesting - not sure about the practicalities but even so... http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/multi-touch-in-ubuntu-using-a-webcam-and-your-hands-video/
  <HazRPG> *clicks*
  <HazRPG> woah
  <Neoti|work> morning all .....
  <HazRPG> morning Neoti|work
  <HazRPG> that's pretty awesome TheOpenSourcerer
  <Neoti|work> hey hazrpg
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <HazRPG> howdy doodle :)
  <DJones> Morning all
  <gord> morning all
  <HazRPG> morning DJones & gord
  <daubers> Morning
  <AlanBell> morning
  <screen-x> morning :)
  <daubers> Did anyone get an email back from the ose?
  <screen-x> Just tried to install printer, set it up on desk, connected to power, but it didn't show up in lsusb. Fixed problem by connecting printer to computer :)
  <AlanBell> daubers: ose?
  <daubers> open source expo
  <daubers> I applied for tickets but never got an email confirming it...
  <AlanBell> "Registration Confirmation - Please read" was the subject
  <AlanBell> Stand number: 96 - 5x4m <- *big*
  <mattt> what's all the hype w/ this open source expo thing?
  <AlanBell> Furniture being provided for each of you: lockable cupboard/plinth. Chairs x2. And power, light/elec
  <daubers> I meant for tickets :) Not for actually showing ....
  <AlanBell> Net connection: the organisers  will be providing 2 drops so please bring routers and long cables.
  <BigRedS> I love subject lines that say "please read"
  <AlanBell> mattt: wouldn't say it was hyped, but we are exhibiting there
  <BigRedS> "oooooooh! I was going to *eat* my email!"
  <mattt> AlanBell: cool, hope it's a good one for you guys
  <mattt> is there an ubuntu booth at fosdem?  any of you guys going to that?
  <AlanBell> czajkowski: ^^
   * daubers should head to work now really
  <Indy> Hi folks
  <Indy> Does anyone here have any experience with Linux on Sony vaio laptops?
  <AlanBell> there is a page about them on help.ubuntu.com
  <Indy> AlanBell: Is there?
  <Indy> Im specially after installing nvidia drivers
  <AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Laptop/Sony/Vaio/FSeries/Maverick
  <AlanBell> and if you are feeling brave https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Laptop/Sony/Vaio/FSeries/Natty
  <Indy> AlanBell: Sorry my irc just went dead. Could you repost that URL.  Thanks
  <AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Laptop/Sony/Vaio/FSeries/Maverick
  <AlanBell> and if you are feeling brave https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Laptop/Sony/Vaio/FSeries/Natty
  <AlanBell> I think we should launch http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/ at the open source expo
  <gord> ... i don't know *how* tesco managed to get custard creams to taste like pancakes but they have... for shame
  <danfish> good morning :)
  <danfish> AlanBell: good idea - how do you 'launch' the website - a redirect?
  <MooDoo> AlanBell: don't forget to change the logo for the podcast or people will go blind :)
  <AlanBell> danfish: remove the beta. (I know that isn't a very web 2.0 thing to do)
  <AlanBell> MooDoo: *podcasting* makes you go blind now?
  <AlanBell> oh, I see what you mean now :)
  <danfish> AlanBell: if it works, why overcomplicate things..
   * Neoti|work lol @ AlanBell podcasting....
  <Indy> AlanBell: I tried the fix on that page and unfortunately ended up exactly the same
  <AlanBell> Indy: I have no idea about nvidia stuff, but why not describe your issue, someone might be able to offer help
  <AlanBell> or at least sympathy and a cup of tea
  <czajkowski> mattt: yup there is
  <Indy> Basically when I install the nvidia driver Linux just boots up to the login screen. It just doesn't setup the nvidia driver. The way to get back to the GUI is to delete xorg.conf file. This puts me into a very low GUI mode. I've been sort of regretting ever buying the Sony because I didn't realise nvidia had driver issues
  <BigRedS> I ranted all over IRC yesterday about my ATi problems and Martin came along and fixed it all for me :)
  <Indy> I just don't get it with nvidia. How come their windows version works but Linux doesn't
  <Indy> How can I spread the good word about Linux when I can't get my damn pc to work
  <directhex> Indy, nvidia-installer breaks things
  <czajkowski> gord: any idea where I'd find Ev online ?
  <gord> czajkowski, nope sorry
  <gord> (would help more, but busy today :( )
  <Indy> directhex: Ive tried everything
  <HazRPG> why is it, that its always the important stuff a person will lose :/
  <BigRedS> Hm. Caramel flavoured coffee doesn't taste quite as good as the coffee powder itself smells.
  <Neoti> anyone used ZoneMinder before ?
   * BigRedS has Quite briefly
  <BigRedS> what's the acutal question?
  <Neoti> BigRedS : just wandered if anyone used ZoneMinder in conjunction with Grandstream cams or just if anyone had used it at all ... etc... thinking of useing it and connecting it to my XBMC Media center etc ...
  <danfish> I do use zoneminder, but not with Grandstream cams or XBMC
  <BigRedS> ahh, thinking about it, not for a while, and not with Grandstream or xbmc
  <BigRedS> I'm probably quite useless :)
   * Neoti LOL @ BigRedS
  <n1md4> I use ZM with both IP and coaxial cameras, but nothing with XBMC.
  <Neoti> is it any good ...
  <Neoti> the web internet face seems a little crappy ... ?????
  <davmor2> morning all
  <MooDoo> morning davmor2
  <danfish> Neoti: as a CCTV appliance, it's pretty good by comparison to others. The web interface is basic but does the job. As it's open source, you can always make your own :)
  <davmor2> MooDoo: You on mornings again how did you wrangle that deal?
  <n1md4> It's okay.  The interface isn't great, but functional enough.  Motion-detect on multiple feeds requires a lot of CPU time.
  <MooDoo> davmor2: it's a two week shift pattern, 9 - 5:30 for two weeks, then earlies, then weekends and finally lates :S
  <Neoti> i tried it a while ago with an axis cam and did not pick it up for some reason ..... i will have another goo later
  <davmor2> MooDoo: I do not envy you at all
  <MooDoo> davmor2: neither do i
  <n1md4> Neoti: I'm using 4 Axis cams, and found, you have to play around with video settings quite a bit before you win!
  <Neoti> i spent 2 days at my previouse work place trying to get 1 axis cam working ... he he ... could not even get a video feed ....
  <Neoti> hopfully the project has updated a little bit and work ... lol ....
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <n1md4> Ha!  I doubt it :P  Message me if you get stuck.
   * AlanBell haz CDs \o/
  <MooDoo> yay o/
  <AlanBell> oh, no I don't
  <czajkowski> I do
   * bigcalm haz STDs /o\
   * czajkowski has a 100 here 
  <czajkowski> :)
  <AlanBell> I have two baseball caps
  <bigcalm> Actualy, I don't. Just popped into my head
  <AlanBell> a squillion aubergine Ubuntu lanyards
  <AlanBell> 20 or so small orange circle of friends badges
  <AlanBell> copy of the official Ubuntu book
  <AlanBell> a load of stickers
  <AlanBell> an L and XL maverick Tshirt
  <AlanBell> one of which will be going to Paula
  <danfish> ...and a copy of the Art of Community ;)
  <mattt> czajkowski: you still giving a talk?  what day/time?
  <BigRedS> AlanBell: is this potential foss-at-the-barbican loot?
  <czajkowski> mattt: Saturday 1pm
  <AlanBell> BigRedS: some of it is, certainly
  <mattt> czajkowski: good luck!  will try to catch it if i can
  <czajkowski> mattt: there is a wiki page set up to add all Ubuntu folks going to fosdem
  <czajkowski> thanks
  <mattt> czajkowski: i should update that now
  <AlanBell> I think this is a one-off loco team gift, not an every release thing
  <AlanBell> there should be a banner and tablecloth
  <AlanBell> and we should get CDs each release
  <Neoti> hay did someone say ubuntu loot ..... ?
  <Neoti> where ?
  <AlanBell> Neoti: come along to http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/ for some of it
  <AlanBell> markjones: ping
  <daubers> Is there a  nice web based project management tool around?
  <AlanBell> big project or small project?
  <bigcalm> sugarcrm?
  <daubers> AlanBell: Many small-medium sized projects
  <AlanBell> vtiger and openERP both have some project management facilites, but at the rudimentary level (best level for project management IMHO)
  <daubers> Hmm.... might be a bit OTT for what I'm after
  <AlanBell> openproj is more sophisticated and I think has a web based something, not sure if that part is Free
  <daubers> Looking at the website, doesn't look it
  <daubers> Might be an evening with Django tonight
  <AlanBell> and there is project.net
  <AlanBell> and other things like trac
  <czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/savs/status/30192485674254336  :)
  <daubers> trac doesn't do what I want very well...
  <daubers> I tried to mend it, but broke trac horribkly :)
  <AlanBell> something homebrew in django sounds like a great approach
  <knightwise> morning everybody
   * knightwise is on ubuntu 10.10 on his macbook air ! 
  <knightwise> and its Friggin fast
  <BigRedS> Something homebrew in djanog is never a great approach
  <BigRedS> :)
  <daubers> Hmm. project.net wants an orcale db
  <BigRedS> MySQL?
  <AlanBell> knightwise: did you need an official CD drive to install it?
  <daubers> BigRedS: I think it actually wants the Oracle DB not the DB Oracle acquired :)
  <matti> ;]
  <matti> AlanBell: ;]
  <knightwise> AlanBell: what do you mean by official ?
  <knightwise> you mean the "expensive apple one" ?
  <knightwise> nope :)
  <knightwise> i just used my samsung one
  <AlanBell> I read somewhere that the only usb cd drive it would boot from was an apple one
  <AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/How%20to%20install%20Ubuntu%20on%20MacBook%20Air%20using%20live%20CD
  <knightwise> the only thing i cant get working is to disable the touchpad while typing
  <knightwise> allthough i have set that up in the mouse preferences options
  <AlanBell> help.ubuntu.com is a wiki . . .
  <knightwise> but this baby is F.A.S.T. !
  <BigRedS> AlanBell: historically, they can boot off Firewire but not USB
  <BigRedS> AFAIK. So that might be the source of only working from an apple external CD drive
  <knightwise> BigRedS: just take any external USB cd rom drive and it works
  <knightwise> Macbook air has no Firewire port, remember ?
  <AlanBell> if you have a laptop with no firewire port, and a video camera with firewire output, is one totally stuffed?
  <BigRedS> Oh yeah!
  <BigRedS> I'm still stuck in PPC days as far as apple hardware's concerned
  <knightwise> BigRedS: i have a 3G imac in the basement , been meaning to get ubuntu on there
  <knightwise> but the 15 inch screen is a litle too small
  <danfish> didn't the PPC port stop at 9.10?
  <BigRedS> I've a small collection of G4 towers carrying out various duties. Almost seems a shame to have all of them hidden away in cupboards though
  <BigRedS> Err, G3 actually, I think. Translucent turquoise ones
  <Neoti> knightwise which samsung do you have
  <knightwise> just a regular external bus powered DVD writer
  <knightwise> Neoti: have you tried other models that did not work ?
  <Neoti> nope just asking
  <knightwise> Neoti: don't worry , i've tried 2 different models of "non apple" external drives , and both worked
  <knightwise> ok , Macbook air and Ubuntu 10.10 are a match made in heaven so far ..   with OSX this baby was kinda sluggish , now its incredibly fast ! :)
  <MooDoo> knightwise: ssd?
  <knightwise> MooDoo: nope , plain "spinning drive"
  <knightwise> its not the latest 2010 model , its the one before that ( the 2.1)
  <MooDoo> knightwise: well there is an upgrade then :D
  <knightwise> but still , FAST
  <knightwise> MooDoo: true, but kinda kostly i think
  <MooDoo> knightwise: my 120 cost Â£190
  <knightwise> hmm , did you replace it yoursellf ?
  <MooDoo> knightwise: sorry i don't have a macbook i just meant in my laptop, and yes i did
  <knightwise> with the macbook air , its quite an "operation"
  <HazRPG> not sure I like the wasapea
  <HazRPG> (graze)
  <moreati> davmor2: Those app reviews you're tweeting link directly to the apt:// url, which tries to immediately install that app. Not desirable imo - they should link to a page showing the review. Is it Software Centre that's generating them? Id like to file a bug.
  <davmor2> moreati: top secret can't tell you ;)  I don't know if the project is currently available for public reports let me check what needs to happen :)
  <moreati> davmor2: righto
  <Laney> yay for code drops
  <knightwise> anyone know a good video-bloggin software for ubuntu ?
  <knightwise> just to record some video and stuff
  <knightwise> (using the webcam)
  <gord> knightwise, cheese ?
  <knightwise> and dont say cheeze
  <knightwise> Darn :) too late :p
  <gord> whats wrong with it?
  <moreati> knightwise: If you can tell why not cheese, it might help
  <knightwise> kinda "jerky"
  <knightwise> stutters when you record video :(
  <knightwise> werid
  <gord> its because it has to encode the video at the same time
  <gord> your machine might be too slow for that resolution
  <czajkowski> Announcing the ODFPlugfest UK http://www.odfplugfest.co.uk/ all communities and developers are welcome to take part, we have space for talks and it is a freeevent to take part in
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: cross post spammer :P
  <czajkowski> toodlesbyup
  <czajkowski> bigcalm: :(
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: *big hugs* :)
  <knightwise> gord: thats possible
   * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
  <knightwise> hey czajkowski
   * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
  <moreati> knightwise: as gord suggests that may b a limitation of your hardware/drivers, rather than cheese. Kamoso maybe has some different tweaks, but dropping the resolution or using a webcam with hardware compression is probably the way to go
  <czajkowski> knightwise: hi
  <davmor2> czajkowski: well that the mornings out the way then :)
   * daubers attacks python with a stick
   * davmor2 awaits to hear that daubers has been eaten by a boa constrictor
  <knightwise> CCD
  <knightwise> oops
  <daubers> I'm using subprocess to get some data off stdout while a program is running and waiting for a bit to giove that program an instruction, but subprocess isn't giving me all the poxy output
  <gord> ubuntu thinks my kindle is a "digital audio player" =\
  <bigcalm> Does it have mp3s on it?
  <gord> no
  <MartijnVdS> gord: but it could
  <gord> yes but that doesn't mean the description is correct
  <shauno> stick a folder on it named dcim, and it'll probably call it a camera instead :)
  <knightwise> DC42_Daflo
  <knightwise> KDI_44
  <knightwise> Crud
  <knightwise> stupid keyboard switch tool
  <knightwise> AZE
  <knightwise> aarg Ã¨!
  <knightwise> sorry
  <shauno> I always chuckle when I hit the right key combo to switch to dvorak by accident.  takes typos to a whole new level :)
   * Neoti|work needs more voip clients..... 
   * Neoti|work steps out for FOOD! and COFFEEE!......
  <Gringo> Hey guys need some help, 1 of my drives doesnt show up i have to mount it using terminal everytime, how can i make it so it starts like the other when i start ubuntu?
  <MartijnVdS> Gringo: is it always connected? or is it an external disk (like an USB disk)
  <Gringo> its always connected
  <AlanBell> !fstab
  <lubotu3> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: afaik you can configure that in "Disk Utility" (palimpsest) as well?
  <Gringo> i have 2 hard drives, 1 partioned into 3 and the other just normal, its the normal one my d drive that doesnt show up unless i mount it with terminal
  <MartijnVdS> Gringo: see the links AlanBell and lubotu3 provided
  <MartijnVdS> Gringo: they explain how to do it
  <DJones> Thats the important job of the day done, salaries paid :)
  <Gringo> #ubuntu
  <andylockran> howdy
  <MartijnVdS> o/
  <Neoti|work> hey there
  <andylockran> you well ?
  <Neoti|work> yeah good .... u?
  <daubers> nom nom nom lunch
  <Neoti|work> i got a JP with cheese and beans.. lol ... nom nom nom in deed...
  <daubers> Why does shepherds pie always taste better reheated the day after? Just like lasagne
  <X3N> maybe all the juices marinate everything more
  <daubers> Possibly
  <daubers> Either way it makes excellent lunch nomming
  <Neoti|work> you nom that nom away ...
  <Neoti|work> lol
  <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
  <brobostigon> how do i change a root owned folder, so i can access it aswell asread and write to said folder, from or as a normaluser, please.
  <brobostigon> ie /mnt/*
  <BigRedS> brobostigon: chmod 666 <file> ?
  <moreati> brobostigon: You either take ownership of the folder, change the group of the folder to one you're a member of and make it group writable, or you make it world writable
  <BigRedS> er <directory>
  <moreati> chmod 666 is the third option
  <brobostigon> cheers BigRedS and moreati :)
  <BigRedS> note that with directories, execute rights are really list-contents rights
  <brobostigon> hmm.
  <moreati> brobostigon: not that making things world writable is usually poor practise in a shared environment like a server, but if it's your own machine then whatever..
  <moreati> *note
  <brobostigon> ok, so, chmod 666, and then, chmod +rw ?
  <BigRedS> chmod 666 is chmdo +rw, they're two ways of denoting the same
  <BigRedS> well, teh former states where to end up and the latter states thechange to make. but chances are it'll be at 666. The only right missing with chmod 666 is execute
  <moreati> brobostigon: the other approach is sudo chown <user>:<group> <folder>
  <BigRedS> ...which you'd normally want in a directory
  <brobostigon> hmm, ok,
  <Laney> ugo=rw
   * brobostigon goes to bang his head on his desk.
  <brobostigon> a friend to my rescue, with a beer. :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_653_4FsTEfc/TI44ObEDe5I/AAAAAAAABJ8/-XDR0avRf7A/s1600/tactical+facepalm.jpg
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: lol, :)
  <moreati> brobostigon: are you in good hands or do you need further assistance?
  <brobostigon> moreati: probebly need further assistance.
  <moreati> okay: Some queries: What is the path of the folder? Is it empty?
  <brobostigon>  /mnt/**
  <brobostigon> nd it has a textfile in it atthe moment,
  <shauno> permissions on mountpoints tend to be defined by mount options, rather than by chmod
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: well, you can change them after mounting with chmod
  <brobostigon> shauno: at the moment, i am testing, so i dont want a permemnt fstab entry yet.
  <daubers> MartijnVdS: I always prefered the double facepalm http://media.photobucket.com/image/star%20trek%20double%20facepalm/SGM-Daly91/Star%20Trek/double-facepalm.jpg?o=1
  <moreati> brobostigon: why did you say '/mnt/**' Are we talking about 1 folder here or many?
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/6566/182832-quadruple_facepalm_super.jpg
  <brobostigon> moreati: it is a single folder, a mountpoint, with a single txt file inside.
  <moreati> brobostigon: What is the path of the mount point? What filesystem is being mounted?
  <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/M22iv.jpg
  <brobostigon> moreati: /mnt/server and sshfs
  <moreati> brobostigon: and is it mounted now?
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <moreati> okay. Do you want _every_ user able to write into that folder, just yourself, or a group of users?
  <bigcalm> mc just crashed :(
  <bigcalm> Damn windows
  <brobostigon> moreati: just myself.
  <bigcalm> Or damn Java
  <brobostigon> brb.
  <brobostigon> one minute.
  <moreati> brobostigon: sudo chown -R <username>:<group> /mnt/server
  <gran> any idea why my computer continues to change to screensaver no matter what i do with the power management options?
  <gran> and what file i can edit?
  <BigRedS> gran: Do you know which screensaver you're using? I know I've installed alternative ones before that Gnome power manager's been unaware of, and so unable to configure
  <moreati> brobostigon: if you're on Ubuntu  <group> is likely to be the same as <username>, check by running the command groups and looking at the first entry
  <brobostigon> moreati: thankyou,
  <moreati> brobostigon: the -R means recursive i.e. make the change to every file/folder inside the path as well
  <brobostigon> moreati: works, cheeers. :)
  <gran> BigRedS,  its done it since the install, after about 10 minutes it takes me to a login screen. Whether the cable is plugged in or not
  <BigRedS> the cable?
  <BigRedS> Ohh, laptop power lead?
  <BigRedS> try adding the Inhibitor Applet to the panel, see if 'activating' that stops the screensaver from working
  <moreati> gran: do you really mean the login screen? or do you mean you need to unlock the screensaver with your password?
  <moreati> gran: as well as the screensaver timeout, there are power saver timeouts in System > Preferences > Power Management
  <moreati> brobostigon: read this for a little more detail behind file permissions http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/filepermissions.html
  <gran> yeh thats what i mean moreati
  <gran> :)
  <brobostigon> thank you moreati :)
  <bigcalm> popey: taking a break, will track some more later
  <moreati> gran: the first bit, or the second bit :)
  <popey> :)
  <gran> oh sorry  need to unlock the screensaver... but the screensaver shouldn't even come on, i've set it to "never"
  <moreati> gran: Have you looked in System > Preferences > Power Management where the screen blanking can also lock the screen
  <DJones> gran: How long is it before the screensaver kicks in, there was a bug a few versions back where a blank screen was coming up after 10 minutes as though it was the blank screen screensaver?
  <gran> yeh moreati, about 10 minutes DJones
  <gran> well.. i just went to make a sandwich came back and it was up :P
  <gran> just really annoying watching films etc
  <moreati> gran did you look at both tabs (On Mains Power, On Battery Power)? What is 'Put display to sleep when incative' set to on each of those tabs?
  <gran> "never" on mains and an hour with battery
  <gran> its running on mains now
  <gran> so shouldn't have come on
  <moreati> gran: then your settings are right, you may suffering the bug that DJones mentioned
  <moreati> gran: (Do you mean 'screen is going to sleep' by 'come on', the term is confusing me)
  <gran> nah sorry, display turns off and to turn it back on i have to put in the password every time
  <gran> its not hibernating or anything
  <DJones> gran: Have a look at this link http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=341617 There is a section to add to the xorg file that can stop the bug I was thinking of
  <gran> thanks mate
  <DJones> That talks about kubuntu, but I had the same bug on ubuntu as well
  <DJones> Aparently the bug was to do with beryl/xgl so it could be something comepletely different now that beryl is compiz, but could be worth checking anyway
  <gran> whats the filepatch to xorg.conf again sorry?
  <DJones> /etc/X11
  <gran> thanks
  <gran> whats happened to ctrl alt backspace btw? they removed it?
  <gran> how do i restart x now?
  <maco> gran: zapping was disabled upstream a year or two ago. you can reenable it in your keyboard settings
  <DJones> !dontzap
  <lubotu3> To re-enable the Ctrl-Alt-Backspace combination that restarts your X server see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/DontZap
  <maco> (its one of the "enable ____ keyboard shortcut" things in there)
  <gran> cheers
  <moreati> gran: until you've re-eabled it I think logging out restarts X, but reboot definately does :)
  <maco> yes logging out restarts X
  <maco> in one version, theres this lovely bug where the dm asking X to restart properly doesnt work...instead it crashes. which is fine for ubuntu users since gdm apparently just smashes X with a hammer til it dies, then spawns a new one, while kdm actually uses the restart command thats supposed to work for X, resulting in it not coming back up for logging back in.... i forget which release that is. 10.04 or 10.10 i think
  <gran> cheers guys, i'll have to wait and see if it worked
  <moreati> now that's something to use those facepalm pictures for
  <bigcalm> popey: can you re-generate the map please?
  <cps> afternoon peeps :)
  <BigRedS> g'morning cps
  <cps> BigRedS: Morning?! It's 15:09!!
  <BigRedS> cps: ach, near enough
  <BigRedS> :)
  <cps> :\
  <cps> meh
   * cps air guitars to Money for Nothing by Dire Straits
  <dwatkins> Does Ubuntu's 7zip package also lack a manpage like CentOS's one does? Just curious...
  <DJones> 7zip or p7zip?
   * BigRedS has no manual entry for 7zip
  <BigRedS> I have p7zip-full installed
  <dwatkins> I was only able to find 'p7zip' which includes a binary called 7za which is currently extracting my archive, DJones.
  <DJones> man 7zip gives me nothing, but man p7zip has a man page
  <DJones> On 10.04
  <dwatkins> 'No manual entry for 7za'
  <BigRedS> Man p7zip doesn't give me anything on 10.10
  <shauno> it should do; per the last two entries in http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/i386/p7zip/filelist
  <maco> BigRedS: its not a default package
  <dwatkins>    http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/i386/p7zip/filelist
  <dwatkins> oops, sorry
  <DJones> i installed p7zip & got the man page
  <dwatkins> 7zr and p7zip have manpages in that ubuntu package, thanks shauno, but the one in CentOS (built by rpmforge) seems to have only html documentation; thanks all, I was just curious to compare distros.
  <dwatkins> in summary: Ubuntu > CentOS
  <shauno> I believe ubuntu inherits debian's position that not having a manpage is a bug
  <dwatkins> shauno: I would agree with that state, also
  <maco> shauno: its possible to get packages into ubuntu without a manpage, but most packages come from debian, so most have one
  <AlanBell> any opinions on webalyzer vs awstats?
  <maco> ive never used webalyzer, but ive had no issue with awstats
  <dwatkins> I use webalyzer, it's very good in my opinion, AlanBell.
  <dwatkins> and now you are back at square one, sorry...
  <ali1234> i use webalyzer, it's a little old fashioned
  <ali1234> also it won't give you mor than a year's worth of stats
  <dutchie> i hate freedom, so i use google analytics
  <dwatkins> there's also analog, ali1234
  <ali1234> and the reports are not very detailed
  <hamitron> ali1234: no pleasing some of us ;)
  <ali1234> well, i use webalyzer because it "just works" out of the box
  <ali1234> i couldn't figure out how to configure any of those others
  <ali1234> they wouldn't even give me anything
  <maco> mm yeah, awstats needs a bit of config. by which i mean, i think i had to change 1 line in /etc/awstats/awstats.conf
  <maco> LogFormat=1
  <maco> (to tell it its apache2)
  <ali1234> webalyzer doesn't seem to care even if the log format changes in the middle of the file (eg cos you changed webserver)
  <dwatkins> There's also Cacti or Munin, of course, but they are different.
  <ali1234> but thing is, i have quite a complex set up of vhosts too
  <moreati> TO make the choice worse. I came across http://polliwog.sourceforge.net/ moons ago, GA like but self hostable
  <ali1234> by default, they all just hit /var/log/apache2/ on a cron job or something
  <ali1234> that doesn't work for me, i have separate logs
  <AlanBell> ok, webalyzer was easy, but can I feed it old logs that are now compressed like access.log.9.gz
  <jpds> Why would you want to change webserver?
   * DJones notes that gran hasn't spoken for 30 minutes & wonders whether the screensaver kicked in or not?
  <gran> :) sadly facebook distracted me
  <DJones> Hehehe
  <cps> ergh
  <cps> wireless dropped
  <gran> DJones,  fail :( and it only took 5 minutes grr
  <DJones> Ah well, thats a bugger
  <DJones> That was my only thought
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] KDE's 4.6 Release Day - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4378
  <popey> bigcalm: running now
  <bigcalm> popey: too late :P
  <bigcalm> Just joined up the cobble stone
  <bigcalm> Need a lot more track though
  <popey> you are op, you can give it to yourself
  <popey> t /give bigcalm 66 64
  <bigcalm> I see
  <bigcalm> I'll give it a go
  <dutchie> http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/funny-graphs82.png
  <bigcalm> Having to type it each time is lame :P
  <popey> hah
  <popey> give 100 then
  <bigcalm> dutchie: heh
  <davmor2> dutchie: but are they causin' a commotion cause they are so awesome?
   * czajkowski prods davmor2 
  <davmor2> czajkowski: What?
  <czajkowski> nada
  <moreati> He's mellowed, this morning's reponse was stabbing
  <Azelphur> Can you get web based SIP clients that'll just call you?
  <Azelphur> Like, click this button to call my mobile type thing.
  <moreati> hmmm, it would need to involve flash. Is skype acceptably SIP like?
  <Azelphur> nope, don't like skype :(
  <Azelphur> gmail can do it for free
  <Azelphur> but you have to have a gmail account :(
  <popey> Azelphur: you dont have a google account?
  <Azelphur> I do, other people don't
  <Azelphur> I run my stuff off google apps, some strange people use hotmail.
  <moreati> http://www.voipfone.co.uk/PB_Call_Me_Back.php but that involves the web user typing their number and getting a called by some relay bot
  <Azelphur> close :p
  <popey> Azelphur: give them an account on your domain :)
  <Azelphur> haha
  <moreati> Azelphur: you want them to actually use their laptop/whatever's builtin microphone and your server to call you then relay sound/
  <moreati> ?
  <Azelphur> moreati: yea
  <Azelphur> you can do it via gmail because I have a US number so it's a local call
  <Azelphur> but signing up for stuff is boring :p
  <moreati> Azelphur: why? What does that gain you, other than problems with muted microphones, flash permissions and machines with no microphone?
  <Azelphur> *shrug* figured it'd be fun
  <Azelphur> I already have like 300 telephone numbers dotted around the planet
  <Azelphur> it's just for giggles really xD
  <moreati> http://code.google.com/p/flashsipgateway/
  <Azelphur> fancy
  <moreati> then again, no code
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <moreati> http://code.google.com/p/siprtmp/
  <Azelphur> that looks better :D
  <screen-x> writing clearly about CMSs is hard :(  'Select "Main Menu" from the "Menus" menu.'
  <Azelphur> sup dawg, so I herd u liek menus...
  <MartijnVdS> Minecrafters? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2680-Minecraft (might not be entirely family friendly)
  <BigRedS> ooh
  <popey> oooo
  <popey> page crashes flash here
  <MartijnVdS> popey: reload a few times.. flash crashes all the time on natty
  <popey> heh
  <popey> fine in ff, crap in chrome
  <Azelphur> (17:15:40) MartijnVdS: popey: reload a few times.. flash crashes all the time
  <Azelphur> fixed
  <gord> compiz bug, getting fixed in this release
  <gord> chrome + flash = crash
  <MartijnVdS> aha
  <MartijnVdS> l'explain!
  <dutchie> MartijnVdS: haha, very good
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: zero punctuation tends to rock
  <jpds> Not necessarily.
  <MartijnVdS> jpds: usually
  <popey> he's pretty much on the money with that one
  <Azelphur> gord: happen to know much about the compiz wallpaper bug?
  <popey> although misses the multiplayer element
  <Azelphur> I've missed my compiz wallpaper :(
  <gord> i know nothing about it
  <Azelphur> aww.
  <bigcalm> popey: all tracks joined up
  <popey> bigcalm: if only they were straight!
  <bigcalm> popey: have you tried running a cart on it yet?
  <popey> no
  <bigcalm> Me neither
  <popey> wanted to make a cart booster
  <bigcalm> yes
  <popey> but the track kept messing up
  <bigcalm> Will make one on the roof of the grass house
  <bigcalm> Server not running?
  <popey> fine here
   * exobuzz tries out xPud
  <popey> exobuzz: join us in minecraft! :D
  <exobuzz> hehe thanks for the offer. but i think im going to fiddle with xpud and see if its worth running on the joggler ;-)
  <mfraz74> popey: do you get any errors with squid-deb-proxy?
  <gord> terrifying news everybody! https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-January/032355.html
   * exobuzz runs mesa 7.11-git from xorg-edgers anyway. seems ok ;-)
  <exobuzz> why cant xorg make flexible api, so that drivers can work between versions though etc
  <exobuzz> would make it easier when using binary over drivers too
  <exobuzz> binary only
  <exobuzz> sandy bridge support seems pretty good anyway. most 3d stuff i have tried works nicely
  <moreati> "demoting several of the ancient X drivers ... voodoo" there goes part of my childhood
  <moreati> Trying to remember my first 3D acceleration card, it was a passthrough that came with a Tseng(?) 2D card
  <brobostigon> noswaith dda all.
  <brobostigon> good evening all
  <moreati> evening
  <brobostigon> good evening moreati
   * brobostigon is alittle tipsy
   * MartijnVdS is a little tired
  <MartijnVdS> http://goo.gl/maps/iHJP
  <MartijnVdS> ^ because of that
   * brobostigon makes coffee for MartijnVdS 
   * MartijnVdS gets a beer instead, sorry :)_
  <mfraz74> Anyone know if Jono's doing his show tonight?
  <MartijnVdS> Jono has a show? :)
  <mfraz74> well it isn't a show as such!
  <MartijnVdS> oh ustream tuff?
  <MartijnVdS> +s
  <mfraz74> yes
  <brobostigon> mfraz74: good call, :)
  <brobostigon> mfraz74: sorry,
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS:  good call, :)
   * MartijnVdS puts on some 80s music
  <mfraz74> MartijnVdS: I'm listening to Now 5 at the moment :)
  <MartijnVdS> mfraz74: Wham! - Freedom (actually the whole album, Wham - Make it Big)
  <lazarus_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DScZ42PPIyo&feature=my_favorites&list=FLGXNEcpKYHtI  <3
  <mfraz74> MartijnVdS: I'm recording the album from vinyl to minidisc and then onto the computer using QHiMDTransfer
  <MartijnVdS> why through md first?
   * MartijnVdS has a record player with USB port ;)
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i was transferring some "the who"the other day, that way.
  <mfraz74> because I have a better turntable downstairs and it is away from computer interference. I'm using HiMD in PCM mode too
  <MartijnVdS> good thing most new albums include mp3 download vouchers
  <MartijnVdS> also, the Ubuntu Music Store now has EMI and Warner in the EU (instead of just EMI)
  <mfraz74> I'd still prefer to rip them myself to oog
  <MartijnVdS> mfraz74: with CDs, sure.. but with I'm not a vinyl expert (and I don't have the best turntable ever)
  <mfraz74> MartijnVdS: Mine isn't a very expensive one, it's a Â£120 Project II
  <MartijnVdS> I have a Sony, about the same price
  <BigRedS> Anyone know of a way to perform regexp substitution on all emails in thunderbird
  <BigRedS> ?
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: uhm.. what kind?
  <mgdm> It's mbox format, fundamentally
  <mgdm> so you could do it with $SCRIPTING_LANGUAGE
  <MartijnVdS> make sure to exit tbird first
  <MartijnVdS> but first: what's the problem that you're trying to solve? :)
  <BigRedS> Ooop. Got distracted :). We get emails in response to support tickets, which contain the ticket number
  <BigRedS> I want to replace that with a URL, which basically just involves prepending it with a particular string
  <BigRedS> I'd pondered doing it all over the mbox file, but I want to be able to do it while tbird is open
  <BigRedS> ah. Hometime!
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: can't you do it on the server? :)
  <mgdm> write an extension to rewrite it on the client side?
  <mgdm> I realise that may result in shaving many a yak
  <MartijnVdS> mgdm: yak farmers around the globe rejoice
  <mgdm> heh heh
   * MartijnVdS went on a yak shaving spree last year at work
  <MartijnVdS> now we have everything "debianized" and deployed quickly \o/
  <brobostigon> ok, does sshfs, use the same amount of data locally onthe mountpoint, untill its unmounted?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not that I know of
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: as far as I know it's a "remote fs"
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so i put something inside said mountpoint, as it goes straight to the server, and with reading creates the appropriate latency.
  <MartijnVdS> yes
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank for clarifying that, you confirmed what i expected.
  <MartijnVdS> it's like nfs, smbfs, etc.
  <brobostigon> thought so, the latency concerns me.
  <Avo> Hi - Anyone here able to help me with a NFS query? I'm trying to understand the mp/mountpoint export option
   * brobostigon wishes for gigabit ethernet.
  <MartijnVdS> Avo: if you provide mountpoint=, it will only export that directory if it's mounted
  <MartijnVdS> Avo: so say you say "mountpoint=/home", the export you're defining will onle be an export if /home is mounted
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Well, thats about all we have time for - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2010/12/22/well-thats-about-all-we-have-time-for/
  <Avo> Thanks. Does it look in /etc/fstab to check there is a mountpoint for it? Just not sure how it checks. You could still have a home folder, but that wouldn't count?
  <MartijnVdS> Avo: no it checks if the pointed-to folder is actually a mount point
  <MartijnVdS> Avo: you can check if a folder is a mount point by typing "mount"
  <MartijnVdS> putting it in /etc/fstab will mount something on boot, so that would make it a mount point
  <MartijnVdS> Example time :)
  <MartijnVdS> Say your /home is on a separate partition
  <MartijnVdS> and it's in /etc/fstab, and mounts on startup
  <MartijnVdS> and in your /etc/exports you define an export for /home with the "mountpoint" option also set to /home
  <MartijnVdS> then the /home export will only work if the mounting of /home worked at startup
  <MartijnVdS> if it didn't work (filesystem error, disk not present, etc.), it won't be exported
  <Avo> Ah ok. Thanks for the example
  <MartijnVdS> so you don't end up with clients writing files in the wrong filesystem (/ in case /home wasn't mounted)
  <Avo> Yup
  <MartijnVdS> I don't know if you need to re-export if you unmount/remount after exporting filesystems
  <MartijnVdS> best way to find out is to try it :)
  <Avo> Ok. Time for some testing. Thanks
  <MartijnVdS> np
  <Guest82138> Any UK netbooks ship with Ubuntu ?
  <popey> Guest82138: dell latitude 2120?
  <popey> not sure it's classed as a netbook, 10" screen 1366x768
  <Guest82138> I'll go look at 2120, thx
  <Guest82138> popey: Now in Dell Hell, does list Ubuntu in spec but try finding how to buy !
  <MartijnVdS> it tends to be easier to call Dell
  <Guest82138> "call" - yuk
  <Guest82138> found a Latitude 2110 with Ubuntu 9.10 Â£289+shipping+VAT
  <daubers> Evening
  <danfish> 'ello 'ello
  <brobostigon> evening danfish and daubers
  <danfish> lo brobostigon :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <danfish> eczema status?
  <brobostigon> danfish: infection calming, eczema slightly dry, but not bad.
  <danfish> good to hear
  <brobostigon> danfish: no more yellow thingies on my skin.
  <danfish> daubers: did you decide on django for your project thingy?
  <danfish> brobostigon: yellow thingies are never fun
  <brobostigon> danfish: totally, they get very sore and painful, and hurt alot when you try and keep your skin clean, and also when i tryand put my cream on.
  <daubers> danfish: Yup, Going to sit and do some design for it on Friday
  <HazRPG> okay, having a weird experience with a printer here
  <HazRPG> seems to be printing stuff in landscape form
  <HazRPG> yet the test page prints out fine :S
  <HazRPG> I've checked all settings
  <HazRPG> (of the printer I mean)
  <HazRPG> and as far as I can see both the application, plus the drivers are set to print in portrait form
  <azeyu> hi there
  <danfish> daubers: there's a example of a task/project management project on the django website that I've been hacking around on
  <azeyu> is it possible to x display on x display ?
  <danfish> Workstyle I think it's called
  <danfish> azeyu: not sure what you mean
  <daubers> danfish: Oh?
  <danfish> daubers: let me get the link
  <azeyu> xdisplay on xdisplay
  <HazRPG> hmm, just made a dummy document and its printed it out fine
  <HazRPG> must just be the .doc my sister downloaded that seems to be encoded funny made?
  <HazRPG> (its a job application form)
  <danfish> daubers: http://workstyle-py.sourceforge.net/
  <danfish> it's listed as a GTD type thing, but there's more to it than that
  <daubers> Hmmm....
   * daubers wonders if he has a spare VM on the work server
  <daubers> I have one thats running a test of vtiger I could install that alongside and have a play with...
  <danfish> sounds like a plan - I rather like the task.py view
  <azeyu> LEAVING
  <daubers> danfish: Ta, I'll install that tomorrow and have a play
   * daubers heads to bed
  <danfish> o/
   * popey files bug 708375
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 708375 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "Shotwell doesn't remember "Hide photos already imported" tickbox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708375
   * popey pokes shotwell in the face
  <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
  <andylockran> howdy all
  <andylockran> I'm trying to tidy up my CV, and considering writing it in html and styling it with css (as that's what I know best).  Would anyone have any views on this?
  <popey> andylockran: whois the target for your cv?
  <popey> fact is any agency _will_ ask for it in word format no matter what you edit it in
  <czajkowski> aye
  <popey> so I'd keep a copy in pdf, word, and plain text if needed
  <czajkowski> they dont like .pdf
  <czajkowski> :(
  <czajkowski> most upsetting
  <popey> indeed, that's why I said doc :)
  <popey> understandable
  <andylockran> thanks for the advice :)
  <popey> they strip out your personal details from the word doc and pass it on
  <czajkowski> popey: was just agreeing
  <andylockran> Not sure where I'm sending it yet, all I know is that I'm sending it ...
  <popey> they also have auto-cv import tools into their recruitment databases
  <popey> which almost always only ever accept word
  <popey> having your cv in html/css is fine, if you want to link to it somewhere, but if it's over email then doc/pdf/txt is the way to go
  #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-27
  <directhex> there's a reason agencies don't accept pdf
  <directhex> they strip your contact details in the version they send to prospective employers. otheerwise the employer could contact you direct & cut out the middle-man (who earns a lot per successful candidate)
  <popey> yup
  <popey> parasitic bastards
   * popey is happy that his current contract isnt through an agency
  <popey> which is rare for me
  <moreati> not only do they strip your name, someties they add extra skills/experience
  <popey> heh, yeah :)
  <popey> My very first job was obtained because the agency lied and told them that I could drive. At the time I hadn't had any lessons :)
  <theone_> fgh
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] 4.6 Release Supper - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4379
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <AlanBell> morning all
  <AlanBell> meeting at 21:00 this evening
  <MooDoo> AlanBell: is it on the topic?   i didn't notice
  <AlanBell> Meeting Thursday January 27th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
  <AlanBell> \o/ Cats (and minecraft)
  <MooDoo> oooo mine craft :)
  <AlanBell> not sure what the big deal is about cats
  <AlanBell> do they give you eggs? I don't think so.
  <HazRPG> good morning everybody
  <MooDoo> morning
  <DJones> Morning all
  <DJones> AlanBell: Although I'm not fussed about cats, I think I'd rather have a cat sitting on my lap than an egg producer with a beak & claws
  <HazRPG> personally I'd rather have a dog
  <MartijnVdS> cats > *
  <DJones> Dogs FTW
  <HazRPG> at least dogs are entertaining
  <MartijnVdS> so are cats :)
  <DJones> Cats & Dogs together are even more entertaining :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Cats are good
  <MartijnVdS> dogs are needy
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning BTW
  <MartijnVdS> \o TOS
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: true... however dogs will always be a mans best friend
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - I might need a different "handle" - really not sure about TOS.
  <HazRPG> a cat tends to do their own thing
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that's why I like them :)
  <HazRPG> having a cat is like having a teenager in the house all day long
  <HazRPG> they just constantly nag until you let them out so they can go out and party
  <HazRPG> dogs are happy to just go where-ever you want to go
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nah you just need to train your cats better.
  <MartijnVdS> In/out when $boss wants it
  <MartijnVdS> Food when $boss wants it
  <MartijnVdS> etc.
  <MartijnVdS> works fine with my parents' cat :)
  <HazRPG> yeah, but you can't exactly go out with a cat can you and have a walk together lol
  <DJones> HazRPG: Tell that to my dog, yes he's happy to go out with me whenever I want, but when he doesn't want to come in, he does a good job of being selectively ignorant
  <HazRPG> DJones: dogs just like having fun too much lol
  <DJones> One advantage cats have over dogs is that they don't bark & when they make a noise, its very rarely anywhere near as loud as a dog barking
  <HazRPG> I don't know how my mum's managed to do it, cos she owns 2 dogs and 8 pups at the moment (bare in mind she use to HATE dogs all of her life - but since she got her first dog like 2 years ago, she seems to love them now)
  <DJones> What breed does she have?
  <HazRPG> anyways, she's managed to train that first dog to be like the perfect pet/friend - always listens
  <HazRPG> I haven't a clue, in arabic they seem to call them "multipoo"
  <DJones> heh
  <DJones> Our dog has a native american name, "Oscar TwoPoo" based on experience while on his regular walks
  <HazRPG> its a pure white dog, it'd be about 40cm ish in height, has naturally wavey hair
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: like this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/tannie/5386744767/
  <HazRPG> her daughter looks like a dalmatian - cos she got pregnant from a street dog lol
  <HazRPG> but I don't mean those white dogs with black spots type of dalmatian though
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha yeah that's the one
  <HazRPG> except the one my mum has, has softer looking hair
  <HazRPG> might just be cos she baths it every other day
  <popey> morning all
  <MartijnVdS> howdy popey
   * popey tickles MooDoo with http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/ and http://popeydc.dyndns.org/gmaps/
  <HazRPG> http://picasaweb.google.com/hazrpg/MumSDogsPuppies?feat=directlink <== puppy power!
  <DJones> HazRPG: Nice and cute, although not sure about the ribbons
  <popey> anyone fancy confirming a bug for me?
  <popey> bug 708393
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 708393 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "Pitivi crashes when adding a mov file to the timeline" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708393
  <popey> I'm using natty, but would be interested to know if it works in 10.10
  <HazRPG> DJones: the ribbons are temporary, it just so my mum can associate each one with the right names until she gets them all proper collars
  <HazRPG> she doesn't see the point in getting collars when we're not sure how big they're going to get
  <DJones> Is she keeping them all
  <HazRPG> nor if she's keeping them all
  <HazRPG> heh, nah she's not sure
  <HazRPG> she got rid of the last set (minus tutu, which is the mother in the background of the first photo) but this time she really doesn't want to
  <HazRPG> just because she seems to have like a full set of very different dogs
  <HazRPG> lol
  <HazRPG> not fair :( by the time I get to see the pup's they'll be huge!
  <DJones> keeping 8 or 9 dogs would be expensive though, probably more for vets fee's, insurance etc, food possibly less so because they're not huge dogs that'd eat big meals
  <HazRPG> tutu there stands in at about half a meter or so, but she's almost a meter long and man can she eat!
   * DJones ponders a bring your pet to IRC day
  <HazRPG> DJones: haha
  <HazRPG> mum's planning on opening her own veterinary
  <HazRPG> *slash* hair-dresser shop
  <HazRPG> its an odd mix
  <HazRPG> but in egypt vets are only open on a Thursday, and hair dressers aren't open at all on a Thursday - its weird
  <HazRPG> obviously the rooms for the animals will be completely different to the rooms for hair cutting
  <HazRPG> with different entrances
  <HazRPG> (she's retired, she just wants something to do now lol)
   * gord looks at his schedule, decides not to do an entire week of uds this time, maybe skip entirely
  <HazRPG> man, why can't I find any photos of mum's first dog
   * Neoti|work I hate formatting data....
  <HazRPG> don't we all
  <HazRPG> suppose I should get cracking on some work
   * HazRPG goes to look at some boring relationship diagrams
  <popey> gord: are you allowed to choose not to go to UDS?
  <popey> also gord any idea if my bug 708393 is compiz/unity related?
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 708393 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "Pitivi crashes when adding a mov file to the timeline" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708393
  <MartijnVdS> popey: all bugs in natty are compiz/unity-related :P
  <gord> depends how needed i'll be, if not then i don't have to go this time
  <popey> ahh
  <gord> popey, doubt its related, more likely gstreamer
  <popey> it gives an x type error
  <gord> it'll be asking for some buggy format that X can't do, compiz shouldn't cause X errors in applications
  <MartijnVdS> Any Nottinghamites in here? :) http://periodicvideos.blogspot.com/2011/01/public-lecture.html
  <Neoti|work> im from nottingham
  <MartijnVdS> Neoti|work: check the link :)
  <Neoti|work> i just did .. lol ....
  <Neoti|work> where in notts u from,
  <popey> hehe
  <popey> gord: known bug that you can't drag stuff to the trash in unity?
  <gord> i think so, i brought it up with the guys doing the launcher once at least
  <MartijnVdS> Neoti|work: I'm not from Nottingham :)
  <MartijnVdS> Neoti|work: I just follow Brady's channels on Youtube
  <Neoti|work> ah ....
  <popey> i notice that in natty the bin has reverted back to being called Trash
  <popey> and in nautilus it's called Wastebasket
   * popey files a new bug about this
  <wintellect> is "Recycle Bin" patented by Apple / MS?  :P
  <popey> no
  <Neoti|work> just out of interest in the next release of ubuntu have they fixed PPTP vpn ..... ??? is it is broken and there are some bug reports about it on ubuntu website etc...
   * seeif slaps ajmcpherson around a bit with a large trout
  <popey> o_O
   * HazRPG wonders why he always has the urge to click links
  <TheOpenSourcerer> HazRPG: It's genetically encoded
  <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: ^^,
   * popey clicks on TheOpenSourcerer 
  <HazRPG> popey: did it do anything :O
  <TheOpenSourcerer> moar coffee (and perhaps a biscuit...)
   * DJones offers popey some antivirus just in case
   * TheOpenSourcerer is NOT contagious 
  <gord> popey, translations in unity aren't turned on yet, i'm dealing with a merge request for that right now, doesn't need a bug :) in nautilus its called rubbish bin here
   * HazRPG 's twitches.
   * HazRPG eye's twitches.
  <popey> gord: the shortcut is called wastebasket
  <popey> bookmark thingy
  <HazRPG> apparently I have the pizzaman song
  <gord> popey, i don't have a bookmark to the rubbish bin at all
  <popey> under places
  <HazRPG> "I tell her I wanted a fork..."
  <popey> I have alan, Desktop, File System, Network, Floppy Drive (gah!), Wastebasket
  <gord> popey, yeah there its callled rubbish bin here
  <gord> and i don't have a floppy drive :P its not 1995!
  <popey> neither do i
  <popey> my machine has never had one
  <HazRPG> hmm, I have 3 floppy drives that have never seen the light of day since 1997
  <directhex> i stopped putting a floppy drive into pc builds after vista came out
  <directhex> xp still needed one
  <HazRPG> about about 10 floppies which probably has corrupt data on it
  <HazRPG> directhex: really? I've never had a floppy drive on any XP machine I've owned
  <popey> directhex: http://popey.com/house/ & http://popey.com/~alan/house/scripts/ & buy a currentcost and a cable
  <popey> HazRPG: for sata drivers during install
  <gord> if you don't have a floppy drive, how on earth do you play the secret of monkey island?!
  <gord> also, really... minecraft should come on floppy disks
  <directhex> HazRPG, xp will only load drivers during install from A:\, so if you need to add a driver to install...
  <BigRedS> directhex: you can do it from local HDD, and I'm pretty sure from a second CD drive, too
  <directhex> gord, http://store.steampowered.com/app/32360/ ?
  <BigRedS> It's a bunch of faff, but as supported as anything else is in an XP install
  <popey> local hdd on a machine that cant see the disk controller?
  <directhex> BigRedS, no.
  <popey> thats paradoxical
  <BigRedS> popey: yeah. Say a USB stick or a disk that's not on the controller you're trying to install support for
  <andylockran> howdy guys
  <andylockran> and gals
  <popey> nope
  <directhex> BigRedS, the NT5 installer will only read the drivers integrated into the install media driver database, or A:\
  <popey> xp does not support usb on install
  <directhex> BigRedS, you're thinking of vista
  <gord> directhex, yeah but thats the special addition that looks weird, booooo! *ignores other mode*
  <BigRedS> I've never installed vista
  <directhex> or xp by the sound of it!
  <BigRedS> I've done that at least a couple of times with XP on Dells to get the raid cards working. The get-the-stuff-off-a-different-local-disk thing.
  <HazRPG> woah, vista can be installed!?
  <gord> and now my bin icon is called rubbish bin in unity :) woo
  <BigRedS> Hm. All I can find on the subject is "replace the windows CD with one wth a driver on it"
  <BigRedS> I'm sure it was documented *somewhere*
  <BigRedS> anyway, nobody is installing XP these days so it's not like it matters
  <directhex> BigRedS, things that don't exist can't be documented
  <BigRedS> I didn't just guess that it'd work and try it
  <popey> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916196/en-us
  <DJones> BigRedS: I'm going to have to install XP so I can install a bios update on a laptop ):
  <BigRedS> popey: yeah, so USB doesn't. I *know* I've got raid card controllers inserted into an XP install before off a local HDD
  <BigRedS> or, thinking about it, more likely server 03
  <popey> I *know* you haven't
  <BigRedS> or whichever one was XP dressed up as a server
  <popey> maybe :)
  <BigRedS> fair enough
  <directhex> 2k3 isn't xp
  <directhex> but xp64 is 2k3
  <directhex> both are still nt5-series though
  <directhex> yay for the 5.2 kernel. blocking game installs since... 2003!
  <HazRPG> time to do some mail
  <HazRPG> bbl
  <czajkowski> Aloha
  <HazRPG> (why some things can't be done electronically is beyond me :/)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: because there's a whole generation of people who don't "get" computers
  <MartijnVdS> not really anyway
  <HazRPG> yeah but by surely constantly pushing paper, people are just going to get use to paper and it'll never be electronic
  <HazRPG> I remember that computers were the new way to save trees way back when :/
  <HazRPG> still hasn't took off lol
  <HazRPG> I have a feeling its more to do with people don't want people to get lazy and forget how to write lol
  <HazRPG> (remembers a time when I had to hand write an essay T_T)
  <HazRPG> anyways, back in a bit
   * HazRPG looks forward to seeing more diagrams ;?
   * screen-x feels sorry for cold calling people that get his number
  <screen-x> muhahhahaa
  <popey> gord: full screen minecraft sucks on 11.04
  <popey> gord: is it same for you? framerate is awful
  <gord> popey, fullscreen how, f11?
  <popey> no, maximise the window
  <popey> so it takes up one screen
  <popey> f11 maxes over both screens and is thus worse
  <popey> one frame every 10-20 seconds
  <gord> huh, it works fine maximised here, 70-80fps (and i have it set to limit fps)
  <popey> nvidia?
  <gord> yeah
  <gord> works fine on this gtx260 machine and my 9600gtm in the laptop
  <popey> unusable here
  <gord> popey, how updated is the system? new xorg at the moment that might be screwing things up for you
  <gord> i haven't done a proper update since last week
  <popey> been like it all the time I have been on natty
   * czajkowski peers into #ubuntu-uk 
  <gord> not sure then :(
  <Myrtti> but how can you keep an eye on IRC if you play minecraft fullscreen? :->
  <popey> two screens
  <HazRPG> back
  <czajkowski> popey: geek!
  <bigcalm> Morning peeps
  <bigcalm> I can't play minecraft full screen, it makes me feel ill (motion sickness I guess)
  <czajkowski> bigcalm: *hugs*
  <popey> i tried it with red/blue glasses
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: 2 screens maketh the geek?
  <popey> ok, so i run glxgears
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: *big hugs*
  <popey> 35712 frames in 5.0 seconds = 7142.334 FPS
  <popey> but the screen updates once every so often
  <popey> its not smooth at all
  <popey> (not full screen)
  <bigcalm> :S
  <HazRPG> has anyone got the ubuntu hoodie's?
  <popey> XIO:  fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":0.0" after 45 requests (45 known processed) with 0 events remaining.
  <popey> :S
  <popey> gord: run glxgears
  <bigcalm> popey: it's 100% smooth for me in 3d
  <bigcalm> Don't have the glasses to play with though
  <popey> do you see two windows in t  he laucnher?
  <gord> popey, glxgears  Running synchronized to the vertical refresh.  The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate. 300 frames in 5.0 seconds = 59.931 FPS
  <gord> all runs fine
  <bigcalm> popey: 2 windows?
  <bigcalm> Oh, I'm on windows atm :)
  <popey> two items in the unity launcher
  <popey> each with 3 dots next to them
  <bigcalm> Still don't know what you're talking about
  <gord> popey, bug we know about in a service we use to get window information, seems to be fixed in the latest version of that service though
  <gord> happens with glx windows
  <popey> my system prety much locks up when i run glxgears
  <popey> 100% cpu
  <gord> popey, maybe in opengl settings in nvidia-settings set sync to vblank and allow flipping. might need to restart your session
  <popey> does that change immediately?
  <popey> that fixed glxgears!
  <popey> nice one
   * popey hugs gord 
  <gord> \o/
  <andylockran> :)
  <popey> not fixed minecraft tho :(
  <HazRPG> got an interesting question for ya, do you guys use OpenOffice or LibreOffice at the moment?
  <popey> libreoffice
  <HazRPG> o/
   * HazRPG whispers: that was me high-fiving you
  <popey> ^5 is high five :)
  <Myrtti> meh
  <popey> o/ is "hi"
  <Myrtti> LaTeX all the way
  <HazRPG> popey: yeah I know
  <HazRPG> how bout o| for high-five then ^^
  <HazRPG> it just looks more high-fivey
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah HAAAAAA!!!
  <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: Eureka?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> OpenERP - MRP Scheduler.
  <HazRPG> popey: Q) is there any point putting both, English (United Kingdom) & English in an install of LibreOffice?
  <HazRPG> just notice by default it tries to put both
  <TheOpenSourcerer> HazRPG: IIRC in the OOo language pack, en_GB is sort of bundled in the main English pack along with some of the other English translations...
  <BigRedS> istr there being some hackery going on with the various Englishes, some being effectively diffs against a 'main' one
  <BigRedS> so to get en_uk you need 'english' and the 'diff' to make it into UK, for en_us you just then need to add the 'diff' to get en_us out of the same 'english'
  <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: its separate in lo
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh OK.
  <popey> you install the base, then add in tha lang pack
  <HazRPG> oh
  <popey> well, thats what I had to do last night on osx
  <TheOpenSourcerer> That's better IMHO
  <popey> yeah
  <lazarus_> morning
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Less baggage the better
  <HazRPG> so wait, you saying I should take out the English (UK) on install... and then download the language pack for UK?
   * HazRPG confused
  <popey> uh, in libreoffice if i click "get more templates online" it goes to openoffice.org
  <HazRPG> popey: yeah cos it still uses the same base really
  <HazRPG> they'll eventually transfer everything over, just give em chance
  <HazRPG> I mean they only just left OpenOffice lol
  <popey> I am well aware of the history
  <HazRPG> I didn't say you didn't :P
  <popey> http://www.libreoffice.org/features/templates/ exists
  <HazRPG> popey: yeah, but there aren't any templates there
  <HazRPG> in fact I think the idea is they'll be hosting them on the document foundation wiki
  <popey> yes, which is linked from that page
  <HazRPG> so it is
  <HazRPG> only a handful of templates on there though
  <popey> yup
  <HazRPG> might be worth pointing it out as a bug then?
  <popey> kinda why I mentioned it :)
  <davmor2> morning all
  <HazRPG> davmor2: o/
  <Silver_Fox_> Hello davmor2
  <HazRPG> popey: have you posted it? or shall I?
  <daubers> Morning
  <popey> I'll speak to the LO guys first
  <HazRPG> popey: ah you mean in #libreoffice?
  <HazRPG> oh wow, LibreOffice puts back the awesome document icons back in
  <HazRPG> why did Oracle feel the need to make them all the same colour :/
   * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
  <davmor2> czajkowski: You not feeling well again?
  <czajkowski> :p
  <davmor2> morning czajkowski
   * Neoti|work thinks playing Magic: The gathering is going to turn in to Minecraft where i lost blocks of hours playing it...
  <shauno> now you're losing hours playing with blocks :)
  <directhex> lego!
  <directhex> Neoti|work, the real card game, or the online game?
  <Neoti|work> directhex : both lol
  <Neoti|work> tho last night the online game
  <czajkowski> feck I need to do my expenses :(
  <screen-x> every so often, my NTP server rejects all its peers and goes of to sulk in stratum 16, I setup a cron job to log what was happening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/558960/
  <screen-x> Any idea how to solve it.. stop running my main ntp server in a vm? add more upstream servers?
   * screen-x wonders over to #ubuntu-server, apologies to those of you who are in both..
   * BigRedS wonders if screen-x is actually wandering
  <BigRedS> :)
  <dwatkins> Windows has finally caught-up to Linux and allowed you to run a screensaver on the background: http://j.mp/icsyW3 also works with 9031.com's screensavers (i.e. the Lego one)
  <screen-x> BigRedS: that'd be the one :)
  <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Welcome to 1991 :)
  <dwatkins> precisely, MartijnVdS :)
  <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I ran glmatrix on the desktop of my Ubuntu machine a couple years ago, was nice
  <screen-x> MartijnVdS: I used to think running a winamp visualisation as a background was the coolest thing ever :p
  <MartijnVdS> I've run xplanet as a background
  <MartijnVdS> with ISS and Hubble projected onto it
  <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I did that, then moved the processing over to a server, oonce an hour, with clouds :D
  <dwatkins> also, I added various text to the image, such as a calendar
  <dwatkins> I should set it up again to automatically update my desktop background each hour on my work machine.
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Linaro image downloads - http://www.linuxuk.org/2011/01/linaro-image-downloads/
  <screen-x> Is it rude to ask my question in here, then in #ubuntu-server, then in #ntp?
  <popey> not if you dont get an answer
  <screen-x> cool :)
  <screen-x> BigRedS: donkey.avi.co, brilliant :)
  <X3N> screen-x: clocks and VMs don't play nice
  <X3N> often
  <BigRedS> screen-x: Yeah, my hostnames are shrek-themed :)
  <HazRPG> BigRedS: haha interesting choice :P
  <HazRPG> mine at one point were names from Blizzard lores, then I switched to female names from One Tree Hill, and now I just use animals - mainly because I wanted my laptop to be called Penguin ^^,
  <BigRedS> My laptop's still called 'moses' from when they were biblical characters
  <popey> \o/ WOPR
  <BigRedS> but someone did object to getting an email from mailer-daemon@god and then I started helping out more at my synagogue and figured even more people were likely to
  <HazRPG> haha
  <cps> afternoon peeps :)
  <Silver_Fox_> o/
  <Silver_Fox_> How are you ?
  <HazRPG> popey: apparently it was a bug, but has been changed in the final release
  <HazRPG> popey: also it points to http://templates.libreoffice.org/ but that redirects back to the OpenOffice.org site for now since that's where all the templates are hosted
  <cps> Silver_Fox_, I'm alright :)
  <shauno> wow.  nothing hurts my head quite like running screen inside a screen session
  <dwatkins> shauno: try connecting to multiple remote systems, running nested screen sessions on each ;)
  <HazRPG> dwatkins: gets confusing sometimes doesn't it xD
  <dwatkins> This is how I used to regularly use my terminal, shauno - http://rowla.dyndns.org/images/screen-nested.png
  <shauno> that's not far off what I've got atm.  from within screen, I'm logged into two more hosts .. each of which is running screen
  <dwatkins> admittedly, I've gone back to another machine there, but I often had 3 or 4 levels of nesting
  <shauno> hah, funky screenshot.  glad I don't use status bars :)
  <dwatkins> It makes it easier to tell where you are, but you lose a line each time, of course.
   * dwatkins notes that vmware workstation supports multiple named snapshots, but vmware server does not
  <screen-x> dwatkins: I've recently migrated from vmware server to kvm+libvirt, much less hassle..
  <dwatkins> I can well imagine, screen-x.
  <directhex> shauno, i ran qbasic in dos in windows in qbasic in windows in dos once
  <directhex> it ran out of ram :(
  <cps> directhex, wat
  <directhex> i wrote a DOS-like command prompt in qbasic
  <directhex> left it running when i went to the loo, forgot what i was looking at when i came back & assumed i'd quit windows for some reason. so started windows & qbasic to do more hacking
  <MartijnVdS> fail :)
  <cps> back in a minute
  <HoaxKey> Afternoon all, I ma having problem after problem today trying to sort out my backup system.
  <HoaxKey> having successfully installed Sbackup, I come to formatting my usb hard drive in order to use as a back. It is currently in fat 32 and sbackup gave me errors about files sizes too large (even when i limited them to 4GB))
  <HoaxKey> So i try to unmount UNTITLED 1 the usb hard disk and it doesnt do anything.
  <HoaxKey> i cannot format it because it doesnt know the mount point which is apparently the fault of having a space in the volume label. to fix this i need to unmount it, and so the circle of shite continues. Is anyone available to guide me through this I've been at it for hours with no luck.
  <daubers> HoaxKey: Can you pastebin the output of "mount" please?
  <HoaxKey> daubers, http://pastebin.com/g7Jeu7MX
  <MartijnVdS> try "umount /media/UNTITLED\ 1" (without the "" but with the \)
  <MartijnVdS> or try the disk utility in System -> Administration :)
  <daubers> or umount /dev/sdb2
  <daubers> You'll need to use sudo though
  <daubers> sudo umount /dev/sdb2
  <HoaxKey> i get no error when using sudo umount /dev/sdb2
  <MartijnVdS> HoaxKey: then it's now unmounted :)
  <MartijnVdS> congratulations
  <directhex> no error means no problem
  <HoaxKey> but the drive is still lsited under the "Places" menu
  <MartijnVdS> HoaxKey: sure, because it's still connected
  <MartijnVdS> HoaxKey: look at the Disk Utility in System -> Administration
  <MartijnVdS> HoaxKey: it should tell The TruthÂ®
  <HoaxKey> it is lsited in disk utility
  <HoaxKey> also in gparted
  <MartijnVdS> HoaxKey: sure it's listed.. that's because the disk is physically in the system
  <daubers> HoaxKey: Look at the mount command again, if you've not reopened it in places it should be unmounted
  <MartijnVdS> HoaxKey: click on it in disk utility to unmount/remount/format/partition/etc.
  <HoaxKey> it appears not to be listed  by mount
  <MartijnVdS> then it's not mounted
  <daubers> HoaxKey: Then the disk is not mounted :)
  <HoaxKey> When i try to alter the label via disk utility apply is greyed out
  <HoaxKey> also the disk seems to have 2 partitions a msall 20mb one and a large 500gb one
  <directhex> HoaxKey, sometimes usb disks have a nice useful small partition with windows-only crap on it. it may even be read-only
  <popey> gord: how long after hitting the maximise button on a terminal does it go full screen?
  <gord> popey, instantly?
  <popey> hmm
  <popey> 1-5 seconds here
  <popey> is it a know issue that the close button for an app maximised on screen 2 are on screen 1?
  <Gringo> guys quick question whats the exact command to get winrar? i keep getting couldnt get package
  <popey> there is no winrar for linux
  <gord> yeah
  <popey> its unrar
  <popey> sudo apt-get install unrar
  <Gringo> oh its unrar? i was typing winrar
  <popey> win <- windows
  <Gringo> thanx guys
  <directhex> ._.
  <jpds> popey: so: fail â faildows ?
  <popey> also
  <popey> double clicking titlebar maximises a window, but double clicking again doesn't unmaximise
  <davmor2> jpds: No that would be faild'ohs
  <markjones> Shwma' pawb (Hello All)
  <jpds> markjones: ÐÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ.
  <MartijnVdS> jpds: privet!
  <popey> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a300488/sky-confirms-the-cloud-acquisition.html
  <popey> *shudder*
  <JamesPage> :q!
  <JamesPage> (oops wrong window!)
  <jpds> JamesPage: It was a fitting smiley.
  <danfish> that Sky must be stopped I tells ye - first they by the cloud, next it'll be the wind and rain and we'll all be doomed! Actually they can have the rain
  <danfish> s/by/buy
  <daubers> I quite like the rain
  <Myrtti> latests news on the Deepwater Horizon accident is that apparently one of the causes for it was the Windows NT4 that had crashed to BSOD and couldn't do the alarms
  <popey> gord, 5 seconds to take a gnome terminal full screen :(
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: how is your shoulder/neck this week ?
  <Myrtti> it's back to normal, so atleast life hasn't played me a total screwball
  <Pendulum> Myrtti: glad it's feeling better
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: glad to hear it
   * danfish throws a snowball at czajkowski :D
   * davmor2 awaits to hear the ambulance sirens as czajkowski beats danfish to within an inch of his life
  <gord> popey, we fixed the unmaximise by double clicking, in todays release. maybe give these things a go again when the new packages are built?
  <MartijnVdS>  /me wonders how those things break
  <MartijnVdS> they're quite.. central..
   * MartijnVdS has "make test" to prevent breakage like that ;)
  <danfish> davmor2: nah - she's too far away.....come again she's not
   * danfish calls own ambulance and waits patiently
   * davmor2 hears the distant siren and assumes czajkowski work is done :)
   * czajkowski peers at danfish  whats with the boldness
  <czajkowski> danfish: clearly davmor2 is rubbing off on you!
  <MartijnVdS> .. eww
   * AlanBell wonders if czajkowski is going to make it to the opensourceexpo?
  <czajkowski> andylockran: I am
  <czajkowski> coming up wed and thurs
  <czajkowski> and going to font thingy on thursday
  <czajkowski> and friday head to fosdem
  <czajkowski> next week is a bit of a mad week
  <davmor2> czajkowski: Wash you keyboard out with soapy water this instant
  <MonsterKiller> how does one see max disk space / used disk space on ubuntu server?
  <BigRedS> MonsterKiller: df
  <BigRedS> df -h to have it in human-friendly units
  <MonsterKiller> thanks
   * danfish stops being ill at the thought rubbing again davmor2 (no offence davmor2) and looks forwards to opensourceexpo
  <danfish> czajkowski: my weekend starts today, hence the boldness:)
  <popey> gord cool
  <czajkowski> danfish: jammy
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for the RT czajkowski. Seen this one too? http://www.osor.eu/news/ch-public-spending-cuts-for-cantons-using-or-migrating-to-free-software
  <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer:  np
  <danfish> czajkowski: I'm being all romantic and taking my beloved away for a weekend :)
  <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: did you tweet that recently ?
  <czajkowski> was gonna rt it
  <czajkowski> danfish: awww no rugby on then I take it :p
  <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: 45m ago https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/statuses/30623055386509312
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I am *mightily* looking forward to our rugby geek-up :-D
  <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: :D
  <danfish> I'm sure it will be a great event. I for one am still booked on a conference about STD's :<
  <TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! Bug 160311 is apparently *finally* fixed. (In Natty). A backport anyone?
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult [please no more comments; patches welcome]" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
  <czajkowski> danfish: surely you all there is to know
  <czajkowski> danfish: and it was the pub you suggesed, make someone else go !
  <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, did you not read the bug? "working grip backported to gtk2 already avaiulable in ppa"
  <danfish> czajkowski: I'll tell you what, you tweet me the score, and I'll tweet pics of the slideshow I'll have to endure!
  <gord> i'v had that fix running on maverick/natty for a looong time
  <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, which bug is that?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> gord: No - I just read my email.
  <gord> directhex, the one he mentioned and the one that lubotu3 verbosed?
  <gord> what is it with people not reading today? :(
  <directhex> oh. i just started using alt-middleclick to resize windows...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> It's the one where you can't grab the edge of a window and resize because they are only 1px wide. Try that on a high res window.
   * Laney uses a tiling WM. no resizing here!
   * Laney neckbeards off into the sunset
   * Azelphur hugs compiz
  <czajkowski> danfish: hardly seems very fair at all
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - snowing in Farnham...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Not much mind...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Got to sow my seed this weekend too.
  <dwatkins> I moved to Edinburgh expescint lots of snow and now it's all happening near where I used to live, TheOpenSourcerer ')
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: chili's ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
   * TheOpenSourcerer installs http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/ubuntu-countdown-widget-for-android-released/ on his phone
  <cps> back in a minute peeps
  <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: I have: Bulgarian Carrot, Bangalore Torpedo, Naga Jolokia, Carribean Red Hot, Demon Red, Portugal, Cayenne, Thai Mound, Hot Jalapeno, Dorset Naga, Fatalii, Aji Crystal, Lemon Drop, Goat Horn & The Black Naga.
   * cps` returns
  <Laney> OMG THE CPS
   * Laney RUNS
  <cps> Laney: calm down! I ain't a monster!
  <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: now I want something with hot chilis in it
  <davmor2> Pendulum: Chocolate?
   * cps laughs
  <dwatkins> http://uksnowmap.com/ shows more snow in the last few minutes
  <dwatkins> it's coming towards me!
  <Pendulum> davmor2: don't have any of that either :(
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: have you a bumper load of medicated toilet roll arriving as well? :P
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: that's one heck of a selection - looks great :)
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: only got Jalapenos and Pinnochio's Nose this year
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I am going to have to restrict my sowing somewhat. Not sure what to leave out yet.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Will probably only grow 6 varieties.
  <bigcalm> Mix them up randomly
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: alternatively grow them all to small size and flog the ones you don't want at a farmer's market or whatnot?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> By the time you've paid for the pots, compost etc. there really isn't enough to make it worthwhile.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I do give a few to mates etc.
  <hamitron> popey: you alive?
  <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what did you use for the ftp mount problem in the end?
  <andylockran> lftp :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> blimey - thanks andylockran that was quick.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: yes lftp.
  <andylockran> no problemo.. just happened to be paying attention
  <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: A snippet of the script: http://paste.ubuntu.com/556533/
  <popey> hamitron: ya
  <hamitron> I started a forest fire and was worried
  <hamitron> was heading to someones house
  <hamitron> ;)
  <popey> haha
  <popey> good job we have a backup :)
  <hamitron> yeh
  <hamitron> it is ok I think
  <screen-x> What's the current state of flash on 64bit?
  <BigRedS> works for me
  <screen-x> good :)
  <davmor2> screen-x: works here has done for a while, but then I install flashfox which seems to fix it :)
  <screen-x> davmor2: ok, just got new workstation, and going to install 64bit on it :)
  <KrisDouglas> Hello, I have a clonezilla dump of my ubuntu install, it is split into 9 parts
  <KrisDouglas> .gz.aa, .ab etc..
  <KrisDouglas> is there a way to merge them
  <KrisDouglas> cat doesn't work
  <bigcalm> popey and all minecraft geeks: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2680-Minecraft :D
  <Laney> all i have done so far is explore a huuuuuuuuge cave
  <Laney> and make some water flow into some lava
  <Laney> mmm obsidian
  <directhex> i fear my wife getting minecraft
  <directhex> it would likely end a marriage already strained by farmville
  <Laney> you could craft your dream house together!
  <DJones> directhex: Don't you have to "think" for minecraft? I'd have thought that Farmville users & Minecraft users were at opposite ends of the spectrum
  <directhex> DJones, not really. only the forced socialization differs.
  <pr0ph3t> hi all
  <pr0ph3t> I have a problem with cairo dock, after about 15 minutes it sttarted, cairo dock starts using just over 70% of my RAM, how can I find out what the problem is? I wouldn't want to delete the configs as it took me a while to do it
  <popey> :) bigcalm
  <popey> bigcalm: i started a new bridge from the big house
  <popey> bigcalm: also implemented a daily backup :)
  <bigcalm> popey: aha, so this map is a keeper?
  <popey> i think so
  <popey> got a nice backup script which does online backups of the map
  <directhex> pr0ph3t, back up your config, and bisect
  <Laney> popey: how do you do the screenshots?
  <Laney> got a link to script?
  <popey> F3
  <popey> iirc, maybe f2
  <directhex> alt-f4
  <popey> :)
  <Laney> that's how you automate it?
  <pr0ph3t> directhex thanks, bisect? Is that something like deleting configs until I find what is causing the problem?
  <popey> Laney: automate what?
  <Laney> the screenshots
  <Laney> didn't you have a page with them?
  <popey> Laney: i am not automating screenshots, I'm automating backups
  <popey> and maps
  <Laney> i swear i saw a huge image of a minecraft map the other day
  <Laney> hmm
  <Laney> was that manual?
  <popey> no, its automatic
  <popey> but its not screenshots
  <Laney> oh ok
  <popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/ and http://popeydc.dyndns.org/gmaps/
  <directhex> pr0ph3t, yes, basically. try halfway between "known good" and "buggered". if it's still buggered, try halfway from there to "known good" - otherwise if it's fixed halfway, go halfway from there back towards buggered. eventually you find the 1 breaking change
  <Laney> got source?
  <directhex> google mapscraft? cute
  <directhex> popey, so if i understand correctly, you're expanding the borders of the known universe nightly on your server?
  <popey> yeah, they're in git, one is called mcmap the other is called minecraft-overviewer
  <popey> directhex: not always,
  <popey> a lot of time is spent toiling underground or within the 'known world'
  <AlanBell> o/ Daviey
  <directhex> popey, i meant all the map generation you speak of
  <popey> the map generation is just based on what has been explored in the game
  <popey> the in game world generates on the fly as you reach the edge
  <popey> first person to hit the edge, generates the next chunk
  <Laney> I want images of my underground lair too :(
  <popey> yeah, some have options for that too
  <gord> i have not physically seen another person on popey's minecraft server yet ;) i know they exist, they sometimes say "hi", but its like living in a world where ghosts just randomly talk to you
  <popey> heh
  <popey> we're quite well spread out
  <screen-x> If I kill and restart do-release-upgrade, will it resume the download, or restart it?
  <davmor2> gord: you mean like this life?
  <popey> screen-x: resume
  <screen-x> \o/
  <gord> i'm not! i never stray from the spawn because you never see people if you do ;)
  <gord> course i did stray once to make an epic mountain house... http://gordallott.com/img/Screenshot-6.png
  <hamitron> snow!
  <hamitron> :D
  <popey> how did you get that map in the top right?
  <hamitron> how did you get the map? ;)
  <gord> it came with a mod that adds ambient occulsion
  <popey> ambient who?
  <BigRedS> I never quite got round to making houses: http://avi.co/stuff/lancasters.png http://avi.co/stuff/destroyer.png
  <gord> http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=55700 - makes minecraft look way prettier
  <popey> Laney: you're welcome to jump on the popey server :)
  <popey> (everyone is)
  <daubers> popey: What're you using to make the maps?
  <BigRedS> where is the popey server? The work server appears to have died of neglect :(
  <popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
  <popey> daubers: mcmap and minecraft-overviewer
  <directhex> wake me when minecraft has bump mapping
  <Laney> cool, may well do
  <popey> I dont know what bump mapping is so its clearly not required
  <directhex> popey, an amazing new graphical effect used to make quake 3 ultra-realistic
  <gord> directhex, actually that's tangent space normal mapping ;)
   * directhex slaps gord with carmack's reverse
  <gord> you can't, the creative labs guys own the patent on that!
  <popey> bigcalm: kids home
  <bigcalm> popey: enjoy kid time :)
  <Myrtti> ihihii, I've found two monster spawner caves and found sulfur and yarn there
  <Myrtti> can't get them otherwise with peaceful
   * daubers waits for his server tests to finish so he can slap a second 5690 in it and start them again
  <bigcalm> You should turn dungeons into mob grinders :D
  <Myrtti> er, right.
  <gord> before monsters were in multiplayer, i had to do all kinds of crazy things to get what i needed. would have to look for hours and hours for a spider spawner. then fight all the spiders off, no small feet. light up the spawner so they wouldn't spawn then make a trap out of it to get string from them
  <Myrtti> is using Minutor cheating? or is it just intelligent planning?
  <dutchie> gord: what did you do with that much string?
  <gord> Myrtti, generally depends, if you use it to find things then yeah, your not exploring. using it to find materials doubly so, but to find your way home after getting lost or just to look at your world, thats fine
  <Myrtti> aww.
  <Myrtti> oh well
  <gord> Myrtti, if you want to "cheat" go ahead, but it'll prolly make the game less fun in the long run
  <Myrtti> I just urgently needed iron to finish off a project :-/
  <Myrtti> after finding the caves though minutor became a bit useless because I found all I needed
  <gord> you could strip mine, thats what i do when i need minerals
  <gord> get yourself down underground, somewhere from level 12-16 or so. dig out a line, move two spaces across and dig another line so that basically you can see every block in the area, keep doing that
  <gord> you'll find so much iron and diamond and everything else you won't know what to do with it
   * daubers decided to try and mine a long tunnel from one edge of the map to the other.... then realised the map is more or less infinite in that plane :(
  <Laney> how long did you spend before realising?
  <daubers> Laney: It takes 2 game days to walk from one end to the other :()
  <daubers> :)
   * daubers heads home
  <popey> I have never heard of Minutor Myrtti
  <X3N> !version
  <lubotu3> To find out what version of Ubuntu you have, type Â« lsb_release -a Â» in a !shell - To know the available version of a package, Â« apt-cache policy <package> Â»
  <X3N> ah yes -a
  <bigcalm> http://twitpic.com/3twdv8
  <bigcalm> Humm
  <AlanBell> evening all
  <bigcalm> Morning
  <danfish> grrr - virgin cable down "You will currently be experiencing Loss of all services" <-- website but no 'why?'
  <MartijnVdS> danfish: lots of companies don't explain "why", while "why" would be the most useful thing :)
  <BigRedS> Is 'why' ueful that often? I don't think I've ever minded particularly what it is that whoever has broken
  <BigRedS> I mean, it's interesting, sure, but that can wait until they've finished unbreaking it
  <danfish> ooh - they've update the status to 'will be fixed by 22:23'. That's incredibly precise!
  <AlanBell> they are educating their customers on the difference between "precise" and "accurate"
  <danfish> AlanBell: very true. Ho hum. The android-usb tether option at least is a backup and works with ubuntu seemlessly :)
  <moreati> evening danfish
  <danfish> lo moreati
  <danfish> I'm on a technically 'no tethering allowed' mobile phone contract - my question is "how can they tell if you are tethering?"
  <czajkowski> evening
  <moreati> danfish: in theory deep packet inspeciton, plus analysis of headers like user-agent or simply port matching (e.g. he has traffic on port X the only software that uses that port is for PC)
  <danfish> wotcha czajkowski
  <moreati> I highly doubt any networks actually do it - more likely just he's used 25 GB this month, that's probably tethering
  <danfish> moreati: so in theory, if I tunnel everything over ssh etc they can't tell?
  <czajkowski> danfish: still enjoying the weekend so far
  <moreati> danfish: they couldn't prove anything, but it would make it likely - possibly evedence enough in a civil court case
  <danfish> czajkowski: yup :) wine opened, kids in bed, and leaving in the morning :)
  <czajkowski> danfish: it's only 8
  <czajkowski> wow
  <czajkowski> good going
  <moreati> danfish: Didn't know you had kids (assuming I haven't confused with someone else)
  <danfish> czajkowski: bribery did enter into bedtime discussions tonight I'm afraid
  <danfish> moreati: yup - 2 boys under 4
  <moreati> danfish: In that my apologies, I've confused you for someone else
  <danfish> moreati: np
  <czajkowski> danfish: we used to always be in bed by 7:20  we would hear corrie start
  <czajkowski> was like that till we were 11 maybe 12
  <danfish> czajkowski: tbh, the Corrie music still drives me out of the room ;)
  <Azelphur> http://threestore.three.co.uk/DealSummary.aspx?tariffid=2507&offerCode=24TXT5D057&id=1183 thinking of getting my mum on this, any comments?
  <Azelphur> she currently pays Â£10/mo contract anyway, this is Â£15 (Â£3 monthly discount so Â£12?) and has a nice free android phone and more minutes/texts and internet :o
  <popey> dont be cheap, get her an iphone :)
  <Azelphur> except, I actually like my mum :D
  <danfish> Azelphur: hah - but will she actually use mobile internet?
  <nucc1> erm, does anybody know this website? www.legalsounds.com ?
  <Azelphur> danfish: probably not, the main things I can see her using are the GPS, MP3 playback, she hates phone keyboards (so much so she refuses to text message) so the on screen keyboard will be good, free skype is something she'd also use
  <Azelphur> also the ability to read her email on the move, as she gets her work schedule via email
  <Azelphur> and she always grumbles that she needs more minutes
  <Azelphur> so for Â£2 extra a month, not bad I figure
  <AlanBell> meeting in an hourish
  <HazRPG> Man, I'm really stumped... I can't seem to find a way to get RSS feeds in chrome to pass it over to Juice
  <Oli``> Anybody know how to get get_iplayer to play live BBC2?
  <AlanBell> popey hates . . oh I can't be bothered, just get the iPhone
  <Azelphur> haha
  <HazRPG> juice can recognise "podcast://", etc... and will open up Juice... but is there no real extension that'll send the URL properly for Juice to pick it up?
  <HazRPG> The google RSS extension seems to send the URL using %20, etc... and just causes more work - anyone have any ideas?
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: could do what I do with steam:// urls, I just have the browser launch a bash script and handle it how I want it.
  <HazRPG> oh
  <HazRPG> interesting
  <HazRPG> thanks Azelphur :)
  <Azelphur> danfish: hehe, it's cheap because samsung don't bother to update it
  <Azelphur> but I don't care, I root and flash all my phones on day one anyway :D
  <danfish> :)
  <HazRPG> :)
  <Azelphur> android 1.5, samsung herd u lieked it.
  <HazRPG> Azelphur: heh, did a better way... I just changed an existing extension that handled "feed://" requests and changed it to "podcast://" instead... bout to test it... obviously I had to do a bit of other changes otherwise the code wouldn't run properly too but that was the main gist of it
  <HazRPG> holy crap, that actually worked xD
  <HazRPG> I have the urge to post this up onto the google extension site... but I'm not sure if they'll accept this or not :/
   * AlanBell tickles popey 
  <AlanBell> meeting starting now in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
  <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
   * DJones points TheOpenSourcerer at uk-meeting
   * TheOpenSourcerer has already joined
  <jacobw> chow
  <DJones> jacobw: Multitask, eating & meeting
  <jacobw> nom
  <jacobw> i'm watching the programme that was on the iplayer last night about public schools and politics in this country
  <MartijnVdS> hmm politics
  <MartijnVdS> good idea.. time for sleep
  <jacobw> :)
  <jacobw> i hate the way people think that priviledge makes them superior
  <jacobw> </rant>
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: from my "outside" viewpoint, the British "class" system is weird as well :)
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: it's not there officially, but it's there.
  <jacobw> i must admit, i've not experienced a great deal of it in my life, but to see the effect it still has on our government is fustrating
  <jacobw> even more fustrating is how no one believed me when i said that nick clegg was so similar to david cameron before the election
  * AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday February 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens (and minecraft)
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] February 2011 Ubuntu Hour in Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/february-2011-ubuntu-hour-waterloo-region-ontario-canada
  <zleap> hi
  <AlanBell> who is Ralph Janke?
  <devush> hi zleap
  <DJones> AlanBell: Is it txwikinger?
  <zleap> hi
  <AlanBell> ah
  <brobostigon> evening all.
  <zleap> how do i get control back from virtual box
  <AlanBell> right control zleap
  <zleap> thanks
  <zleap> i copied a windows xp cd to a flash drive can i install it from a flash drive
  <devush> how you transfered the disk.
  <devush> just copied? zleap
  <zleap> yeah
  <devush> well. not really
  <zleap> ok
  <devush> you need to make the iso image.
  <devush> you are on which system.
  <zleap> how do i do that
   * AlanBell hopes this isn't going in a dubious direction
  <zleap> Ubuntu
  <devush> as your host
  <devush> ok.
  <zleap> yeah running linux on a netbook and want to install xp onto virtual box
  <devush> i think brasero disk burner can make the iso from the disk. you can try zleap. let me check on my syste
  <zleap> k
  <devush> you do not have the CD/DVD on the system where you are installing. i assume on netbook you do not have CD etc. correct
  <zleap> devush, yeah
  <zleap> i have a desktip with a cd drive in
  <zleap> deskto
  <devush> if you start the brasero. then at the bottom there is an option to burn the image from teh cd/dvd.
  <zleap> ook
  <devush> zleap. you should try to burn the image. once you have the iso image. you can put it in the flash drive etc.
  <devush> and in the virtual box give the iso file.
  <zleap> ok
  <devush> i never tried virtual box. but did this in vmware hundreds of times. it should work. unless some body corrects me
  <devush> so what you on netbook currently?
  <zleap> ubuntu on both computers
  <devush> ok. i see you have linux and want xp on the top.
  <zleap> yeah
  <devush> fine. it should work. try it.
  <zleap> as virtual box ose does not support usbm,  but on netbook it should support the netbook webcam
  <devush> if it is xp CD, it should make a image iso of around 600 MB.
  <devush> zleap. not idea on that size.
  <zleap> well not sure how else to do it
  <devush> i am also currently running ubuntu in vmware player on the top of XP>
  <zleap> unless i buy virtual box
  <devush> but soon i will transfer the ubuntu VM to the MAC.
  <devush> well you can run the vmware player. which is also free.
  <devush> it works fine.
  <zleap> ok
  <devush> but if you can bring the virtual box to work, then you have probably better system. i have never used the virtualbox. have used Vmware over 10 years now!.
  <zleap> can't find that option in brassero but here is how to do that on a command line http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-creating-cd-rom-iso-image.html
  <devush> well yes. you should be able to do it.
  <devush> zleap. you can see the option here on this link
  <devush> http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2008/08/10/how-to-test-and-boot-an-iso-image-without-burning-to-cd-or-dvd/
  <devush> you just point your iso file on your flash. or better copy it to the linux first for the speed. good luck
  <zleap> thanks
  <zleap> well it's doing something
  <kieko> hi, dvd is not playing on laptop, help? I using sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
  <devush> for the test purposes. you can always download the iso file of some small OS, like puppy-linux or anything and try it with virtualbox.
  <zleap> ok
  <zleap> i have installed xp before so i know it works
  <zleap> just before i had a cdrom drive to point to
  <zleap> ok copying now
  <devush> ok. fine. i mean time iso file is corrupted. in that sense. !
  <zleap> ok if there is a problem will try with a different iso
  <zleap> i have 10.10 somewhere
  <devush> ya. that is a good way. with ubuntu.
  <zleap> i need a bigger flash drive
  <zleap> 2gb is ok but it runs out of space to quickly
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone use a USB Turntable to rip vinyl on Ubuntu recently?
  <dutchie> TheOpenSourcerer: that sounds like the sort of thing MartijnVdS might do
  <HazRPG> stupid thing :/ won't let me upload my extension to the google chrome site :/
  <zleap> yay xp boot / set up screen thingy
  <HazRPG> the one time I decide that something I've made might be useful to others, and it won't even let me upload it :/
  <dutchie> HazRPG: what does it do?
  <HazRPG> its a podcast extension (or RSS feed extension)
  <dutchie> cool
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lsusb sees the turntable but I can't hear any music when I play a record. Audacity remains silent.
  <dutchie> does it show up in sound inputs?
  <HazRPG> dutchie: basically adds features to the existing RSS extension that google have pumped out, but with a some tweaks to allow it to parse the URL to add things like "podcast://", "feed://", "pcast://" and a few other common URL types that applications usually register
  <devush> zleap. it looks like it is working.
  <zleap> yeah
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I see a PCM2900 Audio Codec which I think is it.
  <zleap> i am an idiot though rebooted and told it to boot from cd again
  <zleap> duh
  <devush> never mind
  <zleap> ok its installing properly now
  <zleap> this was xp rebooting as part of install
  <HazRPG> so that when your on a webpage with some RSS on it, you can view the contents in a webpage, and then at the top pick if you want to open it up in an application, etc
  <zleap> man i am not used to things doing that
  <HazRPG> works pretty well I'd say
  <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: you want to see it as a device rather than a codec
  <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what is the line in lsusb?
  <zleap> hmm this could be the quickes xp install on record
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Bus 004 Device 002: ID 08bb:2900 Texas Instruments Japan PCM2900 Audio Codec
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I think.
  <AlanBell> wierd!
  <devush> zleap: sure. as CD is generally very slow.
  <zleap> yeah
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe I need to check my cabling in the daylight... ;-)
  <zleap> and this is going from iso,  which i guess is from hard disk
  <devush> zleap: you should probably got faster netbook also.
  <AlanBell> that is probably it
  <zleap> well duron 1600 vs atom at same speed
  <HazRPG> even modified the usual RSS icon that we all know, to have a lemon in the bottom corner for the Open Source podcast receiver Juice.
  <zleap> or similar speed but as atoms are er faster anyway as they are newer
  <devush> zleap: yes iso from HDD is fater. i think around 70 MB/s or so. not sure.
  <zleap> ok
  <HazRPG> oh well, just an extension that shall never see the light of day I guess lol
  <TheOpenSourcerer> The Sound Prefs refer to it as PCM2900 Audio Codec Analog stereo. There's a translation bug there... Should say Analogue.
  <zleap> well i can run a few xp programs hopefully which will be a good thing
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - am bored now. Going to bed,
  <zleap> k
  <TheOpenSourcerer> nn all.
  <devush> i need the XP for the DVDFlick or something like that. which basically allows you to create DVD from any random media files. even to menu etc.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - lots of errors in syslog:
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Jan 27 22:36:00 lobsang pulseaudio[1895]: alsa-source.c: Error opening PCM device hw:1: Device or resource busy
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Jan 27 22:35:31 lobsang kernel: [ 4936.388992] 2:2:3: endpoint lacks sample rate attribute bit, cannot set.
  <kieko> I installed mplayer and some mplayer skins but the player is not there ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Bug 644708 :-(
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 644708 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "usb audio partially broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644708
  <zleap> devush, sounds good
  <devush> zleap: nice to hear that!
  <zleap> someone at the rugby club wanted a way to make a dvd from the files off a video camera
  <devush> zleap: last time when i tried to make the iso image of my XP CD. i had problem, but never tried it on ubuntu. i know all these dd=if etc. commands
  <zleap> the one i posted worked fine
  <zleap> just had tro use mtab to figure out where the cdrom disk was
  <zleap> /dev/sr0 here
  <devush> go to the XP optimize site. they have link to the DVD program. search it on google - XP Optimize
  <zleap> then tell it to creatre it in a more useful place
  <zleap> ok
  <zleap> yeah may do that, as i don't really need a lot of the stuff that comes with xp
  <zleap> on a more on topic note what do you think of unity
  <devush> may be we should try to runs the XP software on the wine directly on ubuntu.
  <zleap> ?
  <zleap> some of it works on wine
  <devush> ok. my last try of wine was at least 7-8 years ago.
  <zleap> i have got the crossover package from when it was free download for a while,   that worked nicely
  <devush> things are changed now.
  <zleap> well i think i got star wars working with it
  <zleap> sometimes its probably easier to simply use a virtual machine it depends what you want to do i guess
  <devush> is anybody using the tmux?
  <zleap> nope
  <zleap> 9 mins to go
  <zleap> lol windows xp includes the most secure version of internet explorer to date,  note to self install firefox
  <devush> stats could be different from the reality.
  <zleap> well this was ie 6 iirc
  <devush> could be true given the criteria of testing it.
  <devush> you should ask basically under which condition etc.
  <zleap> didn't they do a securirty test between apple, linux and windows 7 and linux won
  <maco> zleap: you're thinking of teh Pwn2Own competition
  <maco> apple loses every time
  <devush> well all these things are manipulated.
  <zleap> yeah
  <devush> zleap.do you have programming background
  <zleap> not much
  <zleap> done stuff in basic
  <maco> but the stuff that takes them down tends to be like... Flash
  <zleap> well flash does tend to be rather insecure
   * zleap cranks handle while xp loads
   * brobostigon gets zleap some wd45
  <devush> zleap: tiobe provides the top language index. i read lots of stories how they manipulate to put one or the other languages top in the list.
  <zleap> wd45 or wd40
  <brobostigon> zleap: wd40, :p
  <zleap> zzzzzzzzzzzz
  <brobostigon> damn, joke failiure, :(
  <zleap> naa its windows taking ages to log in
  <brobostigon> :(
   * zleap is used to linux type password, hit enter and go
  <zleap> hmm so far so good i am in
  <zleap> hmm pressed wrong button and shut it down was meant to switch from full screen mode
  <zleap> hi kristjan
  <kristjan> hello
  #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-28
  <Azelphur> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/Janurary%202011/andshot.png call me when you can do this on iphone :D
  <hamitron> what is teh cheapest (decent) android phone now?
  <Azelphur> hamitron: I just told my mum to get a refurb off three for Â£15/mo
  <Azelphur> that's a dirt cheap contract deal
  <hamitron> per month :/
  <Azelphur> if you do get it you have to be ready to get your hands dirty in terms of rooting, samsung abandoned it.
  <Azelphur> hamitron: what do you want your phone to do?
  <hamitron> be handy if I can phone people
   * brobostigon hugs his htc dream
  <hamitron> errr, also want something to "play" with
  <hamitron> cheap
  <hamitron> so i can void warrenty
  <hamitron> warranty*
  <Azelphur> so you want the next step up from the dream?
  <hamitron> bah, whatever
   * hamitron shrugs
  <Azelphur> maybe take a look at the milestone
  <hamitron> oh, must have wifi
  <Azelphur> it's kinda old now but if you want cheap, it is the next step up from the G1
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: isnt thatthe nexus one?
  <Azelphur> myself, I love my HTC Desire Z
  <Azelphur> brobostigon: nope, it's a HTC Desire Z :D
  <hamitron> is a G1 ok?
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: oh,didnt know, researchneeded.
  <Azelphur> hamitron: sure, you've got it rooted and running android 2.2
  <Azelphur> if you don't find it too slow, then by all means stick with your G1
  <brobostigon> hamitron: lack on ram and internal meoeryreally, compared to whatyou get now.
  <Azelphur> I upgraded from G1 because I found it too painfully slow
  <Azelphur> the G2 is muuuuuuuch faster
  <hamitron> can you strip stuff off to make it run fast?
  <Azelphur> the G1? Not really
  <Azelphur> it's gonna be slow more or less what ever you do
  <brobostigon> hamitron: yes,definatly, :)
  <Azelphur> it was pretty slow when it was on android 1 xD
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: i disagree.
  <Azelphur> ok
  <hamitron> what is the going rate for a G1 now?
  <Azelphur> Â£90
  <hamitron> new?
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: i can get my htc dream,running almost as good as my mums galaxy spica.
  <Azelphur> used
  <hamitron> pffffft
  <Azelphur> brobostigon: that's what I want my mum to get, a spica :)
  <hamitron> Â£90 is above what I'm willing to pay
  <Azelphur> hamitron: I thought you already have a dream
  <hamitron> I had a nokia 5230
  <hamitron> now using a nokia ngage
  <Azelphur> I see :P
  <hamitron> least my phone has proper gaming controls ;)
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: it needs a major android upgrade, it still has 2.1, and the laucher majotly needs changing, it is a majot resourcee hog.
  <Azelphur> brobostigon: yea, I know it's still stuck on 1.5
  <Azelphur> but I can just reflash it there are roms for it
  <Azelphur> brobostigon: cheapest G1 I can see :p
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: i was going to put 2.2.1on my mums,but my mum didnt want me too, as it wouldmeanshe is in breach of contract.
  <Azelphur> brobostigon: yea, my mum is a lot more laid back with tech, she knows I know what I'm doing so just lets me get on with it :)
  <Azelphur> when she gets it she'll hand it to me and have me set it up nice for her, and off she'll go.
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: my mum believes the same, but still wont let me, she doesnt want to be inbreach of contract,
  <Azelphur> hamitron: if you want a G1 I might be able to sell you mine
  <Azelphur> brobostigon: xD
  <brobostigon> Azelphur: i have done a huge amount of tweking on mymums already,.
  <Azelphur> :)
  <Azelphur> I breached 3 different mobile contracts in the space of a month
  <Azelphur> breaching contract like a pro.
  <brobostigon> lol, :)
  <Azelphur> :D
  <Azelphur> Had t-mobile, tethered, they lowered cap to 500MB so I switched to 3, tethered, then popey linked giffgaff on twitter, so I switched to giffgaff, and tethered.
  <Azelphur> xD
  <Azelphur> going for the high score!
  <brobostigon> good night all, sleep well.
  <Azelphur> hamitron: if you want a G1 I may be interested in selling you mine
  <brobostigon> me tired.
  <Azelphur> then I can upgrade my brother
  <Azelphur> hamitron: It's in reasonably good condition too, it's had invisible shield on it since day 1 so no scratches :)
  <Azelphur> that said, buying a G1 is pointless now days, you can get a milestone for hardly anything more and they are astronomically faster.
  <zleap> cya
  <hamitron> Azelphur: well, if it is that pointless, it should drop in price the going rate
  <Azelphur> :)
  <hamitron> this is my thinking, wait till it is "useless" according to most people, then use it if I can
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <hamitron> part of me wants to get a N8
  <hamitron> or one of teh cheaper versions
   * Azelphur refuses to buy phones without a keyboard
  <hamitron> well, I think my ideal phone would have no keyboard, but have an option to use a seperate keyboard and screen
  <Azelphur> :)
  <Azelphur> have you thought about an n900?
  <Azelphur> they are pretty cheap now and still cool
  <hamitron> Azelphur: my idea of cheap is below Â£100 ;/
  <pr0ph3t> hi all
  <Azelphur> hamitron: yea, so buy my G1 off me and I'll put a bit on top and get my brother a droid :D
  <Azelphur> (as long as my brothers interested)
  <pr0ph3t> is there a tool in ubuntu that helps finding out which websites are being visited by the computers connected to a home wifi network?
  <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: seems like a bad invasion of privacy :p
  <pr0ph3t> Azelphur, it's my home network :P
  <Azelphur> are you notifying the users that your doing it?
  <pr0ph3t> well of course
  <pr0ph3t> but they don't think I can
  <Azelphur> I'd do it at the router level
  <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: you could do it with wireshark
  <Azelphur> and a fancy filter.
  <pr0ph3t> I know how to block sites from the router
  <pr0ph3t> but it's more of a logging thing
  <pr0ph3t> so when if I'm told they are studying, I can actually check they are, from like a log file
  <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: so yea, tcpdump/wireshark maybe
  <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: why not just use a vnc server on the machine
  <Azelphur> far more effective / easy
  <pr0ph3t> Azelphur, that's intrusive though, I was just thinking I come back home, and check whether users have been on facebook all day or just a little bit etc.
  <Azelphur> hehe, not really any more intrusive than logging every website anyone has ever visited tbh
  <hamitron> G1 takes 2 sims?
  <Azelphur> hamitron: nope
  <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: personally, I'd work on a different approach though
  <Azelphur> I'm gonna go on one of my parenting rants now, xD
  <hamitron> N900 does?
  <Azelphur> hamitron: not afaik
  <Azelphur> if you do stuff like what your doing, your teaching your kid basically that they can get away with it as long as you don't notice
  <Azelphur> the way you should be doing it, is consequences if they mess up :)
  <Azelphur> don't get your homework done on time? firewall facebook for a week or something
  <Azelphur> far more effective
  <pr0ph3t> Azelphur, it's not that serious, I'm not into punishments etc, it ends up being more of a laugh and perhaps a challenge rather than a lesson for someone
  <Azelphur> ok :P
  <pr0ph3t> the only one that's gonna learn from it is me
  <Azelphur> then yea, break out the man tcpdump
  <Azelphur> or wireshark
  <pr0ph3t> wireshark works on wireless?
  <Azelphur> *shrug*
  <Azelphur> my router has tcpdump built in :D
  <Azelphur> but I only really use it for debugging purposes.
  <pr0ph3t> sorry, just the name suggests... never mind
  <Azelphur> o.O
  <hamitron> Azelphur: you know how to get the url filtering working on your router?
  <Azelphur> if I was going to do url filtering I'd probably use opendns
  <hamitron> yeh, that was my next plan
  <AlanBell> morning peeps
  <jacobw> morning
  <Myrtti> meh
  <DJones> Morning all
  <daubers> Morning
  <diplo> Morning
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <Myrtti> I may need to buy The Oatmeal book
  <imexil> Morning. Has any of heard anything new about Skype's open source plans for the client. Looks like they completely dropped that idea :(
  <DJones> imexil: Which open source plans are you thinking of? I run Skype on ubuntu, not sure if you mean that, or them actually opensourcing skype itself
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <czajkowski> How have I no eggs :( this never happens
  <DJones> Morning czajkowski
   * DJones points czajkowski at AlanBell 
  <imexil> DJones: Skype announced back in Sep 2009 that they are planning to open source the client code (probably since they have no interest/resources to keep the linux client up to date)
  <czajkowski> DJones: ello
  <kaushal> hi
   * daubers locks himself away in his office
  <kaushal> I am running the command /usr/bin/mail -s "DNDList" kaushal@example.com < /home/kaushal/ttsl/dndmessage
  <kaushal> inside the /home/kaushal/ttsl/dndmessage message there is a content wherein date is mentioned it needs to be changed I mean i need to run it on Monday and Thursday
  <kaushal> please suggest
  <MartijnVdS> kaushal: write a small script (in Perl or shell)
  <MartijnVdS> or use something like:
  <kaushal> so lets say i run this via a shell script the message should say "The File dated "Monday" is uploaded"
  <kaushal> MartijnVdS: hope it is clear to you
  <daubers> Gods damnit. I need to update libre office on the mac, and the download page doesn't offer me any friggin downloads
  <MartijnVdS> kaushal: make a small shell script that does:
  <MartijnVdS> TODAY=`date +%A`
  <MartijnVdS> sed -e "s/TEMPLATE_TODAY/$TODAY/g" input_file
  <MartijnVdS> and then put in your input file:
  <MartijnVdS> "The file for TEMPLATE_TODAY was done."
  <MartijnVdS> then make the cronjob something like:
  <MartijnVdS> script.sh | mail -s "Foo" foo@bar.com
  <gord> popey, checked into your gnome-terminal maximize lag problems, seems its a bug with gnome-terminal itself under compositing blocks in an X call, prolly better to suggest the lovely Terminator for now :)
   * dutchie wonders what the chances of terminator becoming default terminal app are
  <Myrtti> terminator â¥
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: â« The chances of Terminator becoming default, are a million to one he said </wotw>
  <dutchie> is this some music reference that i am too young to get again?
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://www.thewaroftheworlds.com/
  <dutchie> :o
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: Jeff Wayne's musical version :)
  <dutchie> how did i not hear about this when it was in the uk
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: because you're a recluse/shut-in? :P
  <dutchie> i'm going to say "because oxford is cut off from the rest of the world"
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: I have it on vinyl :)
  <dutchie> pretty sure that all of my knowledge of current affairs is via twitter at the moment
  <MartijnVdS> dutchie: the original story is set mostly around Woking/London.. not too far away :)
   * MartijnVdS has just finished re-reasing the book
  <MartijnVdS> reading*
  <czajkowski> Anyone have any experience with http://url.ie/8zv6
  <MartijnVdS> Google Maps helped a lot with the geographic picture for me :)
  <BigRedS> czajkowski: whatever that is is taking a while to lad. What is it?
  <BigRedS> s/lad/load/
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it's the Scroll
  <czajkowski> BigRedS: android tablet
  <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: there's a review here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POn7TgzCR9M
  <BigRedS> aha! No, in that case...
  <gord> czajkowski, pretty much all android tablets at this point are.. not good. best off waiting for gingerbread devices, ideally one made by google
  <MartijnVdS> gord: honeycomb*
  <gord> yes
  <czajkowski> hmmm
  <czajkowski> ok
  <MartijnVdS> looking at the Honeycomb article on ARs
  <MartijnVdS> can't wait for a tablet with it to be released :)
  <MartijnVdS> preferably with "clean" firmware, not hacked-up Samsung/HTC/etc. poo
  <bigcalm> Ug
  <Myrtti> bah.
  <Myrtti> tickets to Finland bought.
  <Myrtti> I had hoped a longer stay in UK but alas, that wasn't meant to be
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <DJones> I would have thought going home was a good feeling
  <bigcalm> Myrtti: emigrate to Blighty?
  <Myrtti> bigcalm, DJones: I don't feel home in my apartment and the reason for quick departure to Finland isn't a happy one, so...
   * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
  <Myrtti> my only consolation in this is that the reason isn't so urgent that I needed to start harassing Ryanair to reimburse or anything
  <Myrtti> so, from Berlin to UK today, to Finland on Sunday
  <Myrtti> I'm going to be so dead next week...
  <Neioti|work> moin all
  <daubers> Myrtti: Chocolate will help with that
  <Myrtti> daubers: I highly doubt it
  <daubers> Myrtti: Enough of it will certainly give you a burst of energy for a short time
  <daubers> Myrtti: Cake is a better solution to any problem though
  <DJones> daubers: Chocolate cake sounds even better
  <daubers> DJones: I dunno... a victoria sponge is certainly very welcome at times
   * BigRedS is using ice cream to solve problems at the minute
  <MartijnVdS> Tea.
  <MartijnVdS> best problem solvent ;)
  <Waterwolffy> hey
  <Waterwolffy> i installed ubuntu on my laptop using wubi
  <Waterwolffy> yesterday i installed some updates and shut down
  <Waterwolffy> today when i opened it and try to select ubuntu from boot menu, it says "unknown command loadfont"
  <Waterwolffy> i have tried googling but too many answers to get any working-for-sure one
  <Waterwolffy> anyone know what's wrong?
  <DJones> Waterwolffy: I don't use wubi and can't help with that, but if you don't get an answer here, try #ubuntu thats the main supprot channel & should might get a quicker response
  <Waterwolffy> yeah I found a thread that looks promising
  <Waterwolffy> if it won't work I'll try there
  <Waterwolffy> thanks
  <bigcalm> What ever happened to Kemopetrol? Need more Finnish goodness
  <Myrtti> Von Hertzen Brothers?
   * bigcalm investigates on Spotify
  <bigcalm> Rockin' \m/
  <Myrtti> Magenta Skycode might be interesting too
   * daubers turns on the heating
  <Myrtti> apparently all purchases of iPhone4's are revokable in Finland, if the seller hasn't specifically told during sales that the device must not be used below 0 centigrade
  <bigcalm> Tricky
  <bigcalm> How does your Nexus One cope with the cold?
  <Myrtti> haven't had any trouble
  <MartijnVdS> neither has mine
  <Myrtti> but apparently one of the Nordic insurance companies is fuming at Apple because their clients are claiming insurance for their broken iPhones that Apple doesn't take responsibility of because "the warranty is void if the phone has been used in cold temperatures" - I heard that approximately quarter of all their insurance claims atm are from broken iphones
  <bigcalm> Nasty
  <Myrtti> I knew there was some other reason for not getting an iphone than the need to use crippleware to manage it ;-)
  <davmor2> morning all
   * davmor2 prods czajkowski morning
  <bigcalm> Myrtti: have you modded your n1?
  <Myrtti> bigcalm: nah, apart from the stickers I have on it
   * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
  <bigcalm> Awww ;)
  <Myrtti> my only reason for it would be to get openvpn to work, and that's not good enough reason
  <bigcalm> Fair enough
  <davmor2> czajkowski: you're just going out of you way to freak me out now aren't you ;)
  <Myrtti> since froyo enabled tethering, my main reason for rooting it disappeared
  <czajkowski> davmor2: cannot wait to see you next week :)
  <Myrtti> besides, my adventures with the warranty proved the point of not messing with the phone
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <Myrtti> "hi, my phone is broken, it is jammed in boot, no I don't have a receipt, I got this for free in California"
  <bigcalm> :O
  <Myrtti> "ok, let's see" - two weeks pass, the phone is sent to UK and back - "ok, here's a new phone"
  <davmor2> czajkowski: Nice :)
  <Myrtti> "our bad"
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: davmor2 what the heck are you two playing at?
  <andylockran> howdy
  <davmor2> MooDoo: We're trying to figure out the best way of freaking out the channel is it working :)
  <MooDoo> davmor2: it's working, hugging czajkowski isn't natural
  <czajkowski> :o
  <czajkowski> oi
   * davmor2 hugs czajkowski to show how natural it is :P
  <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski i'm going to be sick
   * czajkowski hugs MooDoo 
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: don't be disgusting
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: er you stopped why?
  <davmor2> MooDoo: She saw the effect the hug was having on you and ran
  <MooDoo> davmor2: i melted, she's good, think i'm in love :)
  <davmor2> czajkowski: run faster
   * MooDoo runs after czajkowski with flowers and chocalate :)
  <DJones> MooDoo: 2 weeks + a few days to valentines day, don't forget the card & red roses
  <MooDoo> DJones: i don't know you that well ;)
  <DJones> Damm
   * AlanBell whispers "white chocolate" to MooDoo 
   * MooDoo is very thankful his wife doesn't use irc :)
  <AlanBell> :)
  <AlanBell> moving on, anyone else about for the expo on Thursday?
  <andylockran> czajkowski: is helpdesk-coordinator a mgmt role or secretarial ?
  <czajkowski> andylockran: not sure tbh
  <czajkowski> andylockran: I only poke the adverts, Kelly is dealing with them
  <davmor2> MooDoo: don't look now but guest1234445 is looking really steamed
  <MooDoo> davmor2: huh?
  <andylockran> czajkowski: ok, I might ping a email over to kelly in time.
  <czajkowski> ok
  <AlanBell> davmor2 have you been giving Mrs MooDoo IRC lessons?
   * MooDoo cottons on :)
  <davmor2> guest1234445 is now know as MrsMooDoo
  <andylockran> czajkowski: how you enjoying life since the move?
  <czajkowski> yup all good thanks
  <czajkowski> 3rd month down
  <MooDoo> davmor2: pmsl, i can't get her off windows never mind irc
  <czajkowski> kinda flown by tbh
  <davmor2> MooDoo: you know they do irc clients for windows right :D
  <Myrtti> well, according to the Telegraph IRC is  used by Russian hackers and criminals anyway
  <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm not worried, she finds computers boring
  <DJones> There's also freenodes webchat
  <davmor2> MooDoo: infact they do pidgin for windows :)
  <daubers> Myrtti: Which are you then?
  <daubers> :p
  <MooDoo> davmor2: yes they do indeed, but she checks facebook and reads the entertainment news and that's about it lol
  <andylockran> czajkowski: you going to any of the 6nations ?
  <czajkowski> andylockran: nope
  <czajkowski> andylockran: we do have this planned though http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
  <andylockran> look at the second registered :p
  <andylockran> oops - I've dropped down the list
  <MartijnVdS> andylockran: people travelled back in time to register before you!
  <bigcalm> Just had my company xmas meal reimbursed. Better late than never :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: wow, just over a month :)
   * bigcalm throws it at his credit card bill
  <andylockran> MartijnVdS: looks like it :p
  <andylockran> bigcalm: I've got expenses from Nov outstanding.
  <MartijnVdS> andylockran: call The Doctor :)
  <bigcalm> Ack
  <MartijnVdS> my employer guarantees payment within 2 weeks, as long as you collect all relevant signatures :)
  <andylockran> I don't mind too much - stops me spending it... and quite nice to get a lump sump put in now and again.
  <bigcalm> Aye, I like that too
  <daubers> HAH!
  <daubers> Just had an email from Microsoft which contains the text "Upgrade upto three PCs running XP and Wista to Windows 7 for only Â£149.99"
  <daubers> I must have missed Windows Wista....
  <daubers> http://yfrog.com/h8yn0p
  <shauno> tweetie for mac eh.  didn't peg you for a freedom hater ;p
  <daubers> shauno: Useful for testing stuffs with. A lot of my customers use OSX.
  <davmor2> shauno: we all hate freedom that's why we follow popey and jono :D
  <bigcalm> Freedom is overrated
   * bigcalm caresses his electronic tag
  <iclebyte> am i correct in thinking that /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf should have 4 entries? 2 per array when using RAID1
  <mattt> don't think so
  <mattt> at least not on mine
  <mattt> it's one per array
  <iclebyte> should it be the UUID of the mdX device or of the one of the hard disks?
  <iclebyte> fstab has the UUID's of the arrays rather than specific devices
  <mattt> i'd imagine the mdX device
  <iclebyte> can you check for me?
  <mattt> yeah, i'm using it on lenny tho -- so there's no UUID reference
  <iclebyte> type blkid into your shell as root
  <iclebyte> oh  =(
  <mattt> :(
  <iclebyte> i'm trying it on 10.04 and it's just causing issues. if i do a warm reboot after hitting rescue mode the system comes up fine. as soon as i do a cold boot it fails
  <iclebyte> this is driving me insane in the membrane
  <daubers> iclebyte: I've got a raid 1 on 10.10 which has one entry per raid1
  <daubers> in /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf
  <daubers> THats a 2 disk raid1
  <daubers> and my fstab uses the blkid of /dev/md0 :)
  <HazRPG> morning
  <HazRPG> or afternoon rather
  <daubers> iclebyte: http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/102228
  <bigcalm> "Incorrect table definition; there can be only one TIMESTAMP column with CURRENT_TIMESTAMP in DEFAULT or ON UPDATE clause
  <bigcalm> " Why?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: which RDBMS?
  <bigcalm> ?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what kind of database engine are you talking to
  <gord> why would you need two timestamp columns in a table?
  <bigcalm> Oh
  <MartijnVdS> gord: lots of reasons
  <bigcalm> I'm just wondering why the limit should be in place
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: checking
  <gord> i don't see a single reason
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: postgresql, mysql, sqlite, etc.?
  <bigcalm> oh, mysql
  <bigcalm> I thought you meant something else :)
  <iclebyte> daubers, and is that the UUID of the RAID array?
  <Twinkletoes> If I want to install the kernel headers, if I use apt-get install "linux-headers-$(uname -r)" will that package also get updated when I update my kernel? (or just do apt-get upgrade?)
  <daubers> iclebyte: The UUID in mdadm.conf is the UUID given by mdadm, not of the blkid of /dev/md0
  <daubers> iclebyte: To get that UUID do "sudo mdadm --query --detail /dev/md0" where md0 is the identifier of you RAID device
  <bigcalm> Twinkletoes: I don't think so as you are specifying a perticular kernel. Have a look for the dummy package instead
  <Twinkletoes> bigcalm: Is that just linux-headers-2.6?  THe one that's listed as a virtual package?
   * bigcalm shrugs :)
  <Twinkletoes> bigcalm: Haha! - Ok, thanks :)
  <bigcalm> My knowledge stops there
  <bigcalm> gord: to counter your statement. There is already a column that is updated with the current timestamp on each write. The column I want to add is a 'created_at' that will only be set once.
  <iclebyte> daubers, this has gone totally pear shaped
  <iclebyte> i've ended up rebuilding the array in the rescue mode - i did think it was strange that when i instructed the 10.04 install to build the array it never performed a sync
  <daubers> Woot!
   * daubers has just written a more or less generic python built in type to xml and back again library
  <daubers> Now I can send my dicts and tuples across the wire without having to worry about them \o/
  <iclebyte> daubers, playing with python? =)
  <daubers> iclebyte: Kinda, doing this for work though
  <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
  <MartijnVdS> afternoonigon :)
  <brobostigon> afternoonings MartijnVdS :)
  <HazRPG> wow... my hearing must be dying O.o
   * HazRPG watching hak5
  <HazRPG> apparently they played a 16000hz sound in the background to prove a point, but I couldn't hear it...
  <MartijnVdS> point proven :)
  <HazRPG> oh hey brobostigon :)
  <brobostigon> hey HazRPG :)
  <HazRPG> hey MartijnVdS
  <MartijnVdS> hey RPG
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah they played it in the background to show that as you get older you can't hear that sound anymore... hold on, I'm going to ask my sis if she can hear it xD
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: your stereo might be filtering it ;)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I like how you assumed it was stereo ;)
  <HazRPG> 5.1 Surround ftw ;D
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "a stereo set" could be a home theatre system imho :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and have 21.6 for all I care ;)
  <HazRPG> I guess
  <HazRPG> (googles for a 16000hz file)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it stops at 52s for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nUkNvl8mQw
  <MartijnVdS> volume drops around 40, but still audible
  <HazRPG> all the way throught :O
  <HazRPG> through*
  <MartijnVdS> there is no sound after 52.. I hear a *click*
  <shauno> I'm always wary of those, because compression codecs vary in their handling of high frequencies too.  and with youtube recoding everything you hand it, you don't control that
  <dogmatic69> hi all
  <HazRPG> true
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: that might explain the click -- the codecs truncating inaudible frequencies
  <HazRPG> I'm having a feeling the podcast I'm watching might have put in a sound file for 16,000hz... but the codec compression might not have done it right
  <dogmatic69> trying to get usb wifi working, its a tl-wn821n v3.1 but not having any luck
  <HazRPG> cos my sister said she couldn't hear anything either
  <shauno> clicks off at 52s for me too, and others in the comments.  not gonna claim I'm not getting old, but that's suss ;)
  <HazRPG> well I can hear up to 18000hz on this site: http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/hearing_test/
  <HazRPG> maybe my hearing isn't as bad as I thought
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: have you looked inside lsusb  and dmesg , to see if the kernel is picking it up properly, and then have you installed bluez, bluetooth drivers.
  <HazRPG> might explain why I always hear a buzzing noise in my computer room
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: sorry, yousaid wifi, ingnore the last bit of what i said.
  <HazRPG> too much electrical stuff floating around
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: lsusb shows it i think
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: and does "ls /dev/wlan*" return anything ?
  <dogmatic69> atheros comms
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: hmm, have you done a search "sudo apt-cache search" to see if there any specific drivers you need to install for atheros.
  <dogmatic69> ls /dev/wlan says no such file or folder
  <brobostigon> ls /dev/wlan*
  <dogmatic69> yes
  <brobostigon> dont forget the *
  <dogmatic69> nothing found
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: do a search, you might need a firmware blob for it.
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: try the hw database on help.ubuntu.com/commmunity
  <dogmatic69> i have
  <brobostigon> and ?
  <dogmatic69> last 6ish https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsWirelessNetworkCardsTP-Link
  <dogmatic69> right at the bottom
  <dogmatic69> everyone says 'works out the box'
  <dogmatic69> i have followed the instructions on the last one and installed the drivers but still nothing
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: can you check dmesg before and after you have plugged it in, and pastebin the output, also lsusb please.
  <BigRedS> Quick sanity check, if I have a script with a bash shebang, but I call it as `sh script.sh`, sh ignores the shebang and it gets parsed by /bin/sh, doesn't it?
  <BigRedS> so bashisms wotn work
  <dogmatic69> i cant paste the output cos its not connected :D
  <dogmatic69> ill give you a summary, one sec
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: how did you install drivers then, you mentioned?
   * brobostigon  goes to make a cuppa.
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: have you had a lookat https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/Atheros
  <brobostigon> !info ath5k
  <lubotu3> Package ath5k does not exist in maverick
  <brobostigon> !info madwifi
  <lubotu3> Package madwifi does not exist in maverick
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/248045309
  <dogmatic69> line 800ish where the gap is was after connecting it
  <brobostigon> [ 1325.450988] ath9k_hif_usb: probe of 2-1:1.0 failed with error -22
  <brobostigon> looks like it knows it there, but is trying to load it, with error, not seen it before,
  <dogmatic69> :(
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: that last link 'Install the package using either Synaptic or apt-get' is not an option
  <dogmatic69> all i got is my laptop to download things with
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: it ispossible,  get the debian package from packages.ubuntu.com and copythe debian package to this machine, and inst6all it using dpkg.
  <dogmatic69> right
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: is this the stuff? http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick-backports/allpackages
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: what is the package name youneed ?
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: and which version of ubuntu are youusing?
  <dogmatic69> it says 'Look for the ath5k module, located in the package linux-backports-modules-intrepid.'
  <dogmatic69> 10.10 x32
  <dogmatic69> x84
  <brobostigon> 86*
  <dogmatic69> 3x lucky :D
  <brobostigon> there isnt an ath5k pckage that i can find, for maverick.
  <brobostigon> well i thought atheros drivers were directly inthe kernel now, as my eeepc has an atheros wifi chipset, and it worked straight out.
  <BigRedS> mm, i'm fairly sure it's in the kernel now
  <brobostigon> thats what i thought BigRedS.
  <BigRedS> wikipedia agrees, but with no citation
  <brobostigon> my eeepc also agrees, :)
  <BigRedS> Haha, ah yeah :)
  <BigRedS> Hm. I've just found a bunch of files with suffixes 'old', 'older', 'evenolder' and 'oldest' :/
  <brobostigon> Linux debian 2.6.37-trunk-686 #1 SMP Thu Jan 6 14:39:08 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
  <BigRedS> rather than the expected date +%F...
  <brobostigon> interesting.
  <shauno> sounds like the kind of thing I'd do.  I still dread finding random 40Gb directories named 'stuff'.
  <BigRedS> haha
  <bigcalm> Anybody here got their Nexus One to link to their car via bluetooth?
  <MartijnVdS> works fine
  <MartijnVdS> well my dad's car, but same thing really ;)
  <bigcalm> What's the car?
  <MartijnVdS> Meriva
  <MartijnVdS> (Opel/Vauxhall)
  <popey> bah, did I miss a meeting?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's a HFP system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_profile#Hands-Free_Profile_.28HFP.29
  <AlanBell> eggs fried in chilli oil are yummy
  <AlanBell> popey: yup
  <TheOpenSourcerer> oooh - mince pie :-)
  <popey> :( sorry
  <AlanBell> never mind
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I've never been able to get my 407 to link :(
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: what kind of set/radio? or is it built-in?
  <bigcalm> Built in
  <bigcalm> Linked with my GF's old phone
  <bigcalm> I should see if it will link with her HTC Wildfire
   * bigcalm ponders
  <dogmatic69> will a download from today be different to the one from a month ago?
  <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: download of what?
  <dogmatic69> the ubuntu  that is
  <dogmatic69> like 10.10 x86
  <AlanBell> not if it is a released version
  <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if it's the same version, the download should be the same, but you can always check against the MD5SUMS file
  <dogmatic69> k
  <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: take a look at bug 700966 Sounds like there is a simple fix.
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 700966 in OpenERP Web Client "[6.0.0_rc2] Wiki pages displayed in wiki syntax" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700966
  <AlanBell> oooooohhhhhh
   * AlanBell beats openerp with the chown stick
  <MartijnVdS> clown stick!
  <czajkowski>  
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: lost for words?
  <czajkowski> yup
  <czajkowski> :)
  <Pendulum> czajkowski: I didn't know you were ever lost for words
  <czajkowski> it happens from time to time
  <AlanBell> Pendulum is far enough away to say stuff like that :)
  <Pendulum> AlanBell: nah, czajkowski just loves me too much. She needs me to get nice rooms with without windows in the showers and with jacuzzis in them at UDS ;-)
  <czajkowski> Pendulum: awwwww you know you're more to me than a room buddy :(
  <czajkowski> who else is going to listen to youtube wake up calls!
  <Pendulum> or bring you salt water taffy
  <czajkowski> this is true :D
  <czajkowski> nyommy
  <Pendulum> btw, was the taffy from Baltimore superior at all? because I'm going to be in Baltimore again in March...
  <czajkowski> yes was nice, it did have a lot of the chocolate one in it, which isn't the nicest, but had lots of the red and white ones:D
   * daubers makes a pot of coffee
  <Pendulum> czajkowski: was it better than the stuff from Martin?
  <MooDoo> yum yum yum subway eaten :)
  <czajkowski> Pendulum: aye
  <czajkowski> nicer
  <czajkowski> chewie
  <czajkowski> r
   * Pendulum adds buy czajkowski salt water taffy to the BAltimore todo list
  <czajkowski> :D
  <czajkowski> awww
  <MooDoo> creep ;)
  <hamitron> :)
  <Pendulum> oh, I take that back. I have seen czajkowski speechless. And it generally involves her mouth having salt water taffy in it
  <czajkowski> Pendulum: to be fair then I just mumble
  <czajkowski> or stop talking mid sentence
  <Pendulum> or interrupt yourself to mumble about taffy
  <czajkowski> ideed
  <Pendulum> "What do you think about the changes beind ma-- oooh taffy!"
  <MooDoo> Pendulum: "<insert anything witty here-- oooh taffy!"
  <Pendulum> MooDoo: nah, it was generaly an Ubuntu related statement
  <MooDoo> pah Pendulum we could of had some fun here at czajkowski 's expense :)
  <Pendulum> I don't think she ever interrupted herself saying "Let's go to breakfast" for example
  <czajkowski> yup pretty much sums up Orlando hotel
  <Pendulum> MooDoo: well it was at UDS
  <Pendulum> I love that hotel
  <czajkowski> and breakfast did mean bacon and syrup
  <Pendulum> I really hope we go back
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: pancakes bacon and maple syrup.....ftw!
  <AlanBell> ^^ WRONG
  <AlanBell> pancakes and syrup is full of win, bacon is full of win. These are separate things
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: eh no your wrong
  <MooDoo> no no no no
  <czajkowski> why nobody gets this is beyond me
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: i get it :) i love it :)  lets do breakfast.
   * hamitron agrees with AB
  <czajkowski> MooDoo: indeed
  <Pendulum> AlanBell: have you tried them together?
  <daubers> If I want to duel boot OSX and Ubuntu do I still have to muck around with rEFIt?
  <AlanBell> I will try anything Pendulum
   * AlanBell isn't sure that came out quite right
  <shauno> daubers: it should work without, but much smoother with refit
  <shauno> that said, I haven't poked grub-efi for a while
  <daubers> shauno: Smoother how?
  <X3N> is duel booting where each OS battles each other until one wins?
  <AlanBell> I have had bacon with syrup on it, it isn't quite as good as bacon with syrup off it
  <X3N> I want that
  <daubers> X3N: Surely thats what Windows does when another OS is present :)
  <shauno> daubers: bootcamp can be a bit obnoxious in expecting windows. refit is on your side
  <AlanBell> X3N: with the new trend of 4 primary partitions all used, Windows wins :(
  <X3N> haha
  <AlanBell> it really is a nasty thing to do
  <HazRPG> hmm, is there anything like cPanel for ubuntu - but with a lil more sauce ;)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Microsoft's Windows revenues plunge 30% http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9206799/Microsoft_s_Windows_revenues_plunge_30_
  <BigRedS> blimey
  <BigRedS> HazRPG: virtualmin?
  <Neoti|work> HazRPG : webmin
  <BigRedS> I've not seen cPanel in a Looooooong time, but find virtualmin quite agreeable
  <TheOpenSourcerer> HazRPG: What do you want to do? I find things like CPanel, Plesk, Webmin etc all just get IN MY WAY
  <MooDoo> i <3 cpanel
  <dogmatic69> webmin is pants
  <HazRPG> well I'm thinking of changing my hosting provider - but thinking of going the VPN way instead of a regular web host
  <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: handy thing with virtualmin is that it keeps the files all human readable, so if you want to go crazy with vi you still can
  <HazRPG> but I'm not exactly a linux server guru just yet (heck I still haven't even used one yet)
  <dogmatic69> HazRPG: im with slicehost and they are pretty good
  <BigRedS> ...and also webmin, virualmin's just an extension to it
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: get a VPS running Ubuntu server or Debian
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: that is the plan ;)
  <AlanBell> bytemark or bitfolk
  <MooDoo> or memset
   * TheOpenSourcerer notes how AlanBell is coming round to the idea of servers *without* GUIs. :-)
  <dogmatic69> BigRedS: but webmin's idea of structure and the new ubuntu / apache ideas clash
  <BigRedS> what's changed in new ubuntu/apache?
  <HazRPG> I just want to finally shift over my 5 or so domains away from GooHost.co.uk cos I'm getting royally screwed over with them
  <BigRedS> I thought we'd put it on a relatively modern ubuntu server
  <HazRPG> at first, wasn't so bad @ Â£49 - I could deal with it, but not that they've pumped the price up, not so much
  <AlanBell> Â£49 per month?
  <HazRPG> a year
  <HazRPG> should have pointed that out ^^,
  <AlanBell> an
  <AlanBell> ah
  <AlanBell> I was going to sell you something a little cheaper :)
  <HazRPG> like what? lol
  <AlanBell> we do fairly big VPS boxes for some of our customers
  <HazRPG> see you said a little cheaper, I have a feeling your going to say its something like Â£30p.m.
  <AlanBell> Â£40
  <HazRPG> ah
  <shauno> I believe ebox is the closest thing to a suggested replacement for webmin now.  it's still not great tho.  servers are pretty much sticking to "tty or go home".  we may never be free from 1970 :)
  <AlanBell> itym Zentyal
  <HazRPG> see, the most I've ever done with my server was try and get tty (or similar) access - and after a month of e-mailing managed to get some access... and all I really needed it for was cron jobs
  <HazRPG> I hate trying to work out how much bandwidth one would need - its mind boggling
  <gord> i love sd cards, you can "copy" 500mb across in two seconds but it'll take half an hour to unmount
  <MartijnVdS> gord: \o/ cache
  <shauno> ugh, who's idea was it to rename ebox to sound like an off-brand pharma?
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: Tesco Value Ebox
  <HazRPG> is Zentyal essentially eBox?
  <HazRPG> cos the logo looks exactly the same
  <BigRedS> I hate websites like that
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: yes, it was rebranded
  <lazarus_> hey
  <HazRPG> hey
  <HazRPG> hmm, 100GB doesn't sound like an awful lot of bandwidth - might just be me though
   * HazRPG is thinking of going with bitfolk
  <AlanBell> it is rather a lot, unless you are hosting .isos or videos
  <BigRedS> yeah, I only ever hit my 30GB limit at around release day
  <HazRPG> BigRedS: release day for what if you don't mind me asking?
  <BigRedS> ubuntus
  <HazRPG> ah
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: Well I plan to put mumble and host maybe 6-7 domains
  <BigRedS> it's a torrent node for ubuntus and debians. I almost don't notice debians
  <HazRPG> none of which have real heavy traffic
  <AlanBell> don't worry about it at all then
  <AlanBell> and bytemark are really nice about traffic spikes
  <HazRPG> I worked it out, if I set the limit on 560Kb/s per session (I think its per session) that it comes down to about 3GB per month (I think)
  <AlanBell> we got slashdotted a few times and they gave us more ram temporarily and we never discussed bandwidth
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: look at the total size of your websites, multiply by the total number of visitors per month, bet it is under a GB if everyone read everything
  <HazRPG> not sure how many visitors I get (if any haha)
  <lazarus_> grr windows is going bye bye
  <HazRPG> I know I do all the time, cos I tend to put up important files/exes/scripts that I might need to help someone out
  <shauno> I think my average weight per page is pretty obscene, and 100Gb would still give me about half a million pageviews
  <HazRPG> total comes to around 200MB of files so far though
  <HazRPG> I should really learn to monitor how much bandwidth I use :/
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: is bitfolk a company you've dealt with before?
  <AlanBell> yes
  <HazRPG> just noticed "consultancy services Â£50/hour" I'm guessing that's not for general support is it
  <AlanBell> no, that would be for consultancy services :)
  <HazRPG> yeah, I was just having a dumb moment
  <Database> Hey people.
  <sandfly> I am looking for a little advice, i have ascanner is not being recognised, Should i file a bug report and with whom
  <popey> sandfly: which make/model of scanner?
  <sandfly> its  combo
  <sandfly> tho printer works
  <HazRPG> thanks for the help gusy
  <HazRPG> guys* even
  <popey> ok, which make/model of scanner multifunction device is it sandfly ?
  <sandfly> photosmart B110
  <popey> canon?
  <popey> oh, hp
  <sandfly> hP
  <popey> http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-HEWLETT-PACKARD
  <HazRPG> typical, guys I'm working for are on holiday - and the FTP is down :/
  <popey> not listed unfortunately
  <popey> bug 685583
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 685583 in HPLIP "HP Photosmart B110 does not work on Ubuntu 10.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685583
  <popey> sandfly: known bug :(
  <sandfly> ok
  <popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1639975
  <popey> some tips there sandfly
  <sandfly> how did u find that
  <popey> google :)
  <MartijnVdS> magic :P
  <sandfly> i am rubish at finding any thing on launchpad
  <popey> use google, it finds stuff in launchpad
  <sandfly> ok
  <popey> I used the terms photosmart B110 scanner ubuntu
  <popey> second hit was that forum post, which links to the bug
  <sandfly> cool
  <sandfly> just back fram a long trip so i haven't hard your show for a while , looking forward to catching up
  <sandfly> And thanks for the pointers
  <popey> no probs and thanks! :)
  <dogmatic69> should i install this for my tp-link wifi issue? http://linuxwireless.org/download/compat-wireless-2.6/
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: its packages inthe repos,i think.
  <brobostigon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/linux-backports-modules-compat-wireless-2.6.36-maverick-generic
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: uname -a == 2.6.35-22
  <dogmatic69> how can i update the system 'manually'
  <brobostigon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=compat+wireless&searchon=all&suite=maverick&section=all
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: i dont see anything to download there
  <moreati> !backports
  <lubotu3> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: that is the list, when i did a search for compat wireless.
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: youneed to work out which package matches your system, get the debian package fromtthe package page, and then download it,copy it to said machine, and instll it manaullywith dpkg.
  <dogmatic69> well i just downloaded on and it wont install
  <dogmatic69> software center opened and 'install' is not clickable
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: install it from cli will dpkg.
  <brobostigon> sudo dpkg -i *.deb
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: dependency problems
   * hamitron spanks popey
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: look lower down the package page, for things it depends on, its listed on the same package page lower down.
  <utrinqueparatus> how do i joing a ubuntu server to a samba based centos PDC domain?
  <dogmatic69> i downloaded this http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/i386/linux-backports-modules-compat-wireless-2.6.36-maverick-generic/download
  <brobostigon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/i386/linux-backports-modules-compat-wireless-2.6.36-maverick-generic/
  <utrinqueparatus> it will be acting as a fileshare
  <brobostigon> lookfuther down the page, it klists its package dependencies.
  <popey> hello hamitron !
  <popey> hamitron: love the volcano!
  <utrinqueparatus> is it possible to have a fileshare with domain authentication from a samba pdc?
  <andylockran> hey guys
  <andylockran> anyone good with perl?
  <andylockran> http://dpaste.com/362962/
  <andylockran> or just logic :p
  <moreati> andylockran: what's the question?
  <andylockran> moreati: looks like the last two lines are out of order.
  <andylockran> in that swap the two round
  <moreati> yes: also remove the semi-colon from line 8, and place the swapped line 7 in {}
  <moreati> andylockran: why does line 6 end  with + 1?
  <moreati> actually, i don't get that whole paste. What exactly is being tested for?
  <andylockran> moreati: actually, looking at it
  <andylockran> the last line is part of the previous line (as no colon) so it returns as expected..
  <andylockran> it's meant to be checking for a sane vat value.
  <andylockran> I don't get the paste either.. I'm not a dev :;p
  <dogmatic69> brobostigon: even using it on my upto-date ubuntu10.10 does not work, i do not know how people have on the site that it works out the box
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: i am not sure then, there might be someintricasy in said usb adaptor or you computer thats causing aproblem, i dont know.
  <dogmatic69> gonna try it on windows tonight
  <dogmatic69> there is not even a led on the stupid thing to show that its working
  <dogmatic69> tx for the help though
  <brobostigon> dogmatic69: i am quite used to that, no seeing hw do things like that, i look in other places.
  <hamitron> damn phone, popey: had serious lag
  <hamitron> but gone now
  <popey> :(
  <popey> when was that?
  <hamitron> when I said "LAG" on server
  <hamitron> just after 3:30 I think
  <popey> ace, will look at log
  <popey> AM?
  <hamitron> PM
  <hamitron> I am not hardcore enough for AM
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> got work and rl ;/
  <hamitron> maybe all the kiddies got home from school :/
  <popey> hamitron: have suspended the map generation jobs, and moved them all to early morning 6-8AM
  <popey> should make it less wobbly
  <hamitron> cool :)
  <Azelphur> popey: did you see my android screenshot earlier? :P
  <popey> nope
  <Azelphur> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/Janurary%202011/andshot.png
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Sheesh - I've just got a renewal bill (Â£20) for my driving license - That never used to happen. Been driving for 25yrs. Got to send a new photo.
  <Azelphur> That's an FTP server, SSH Client, Skype, Playstation emulator, Remote notifier, XMPP client, IRC Client, Overclocking profiler, vnstat-like thing, tasker, and 2 voip accounts
  <Azelphur> all at the same time :D
  <Azelphur> do that on an iphone, lol
  <popey> :)
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <bigcalm> popey: track finished
  <Azelphur> popey: it actually manages all that fine too, the emu is running happy at 50+fps all the time :D
  <Azelphur> I could run more, I just couldn't find anything else to run, lmao
  <popey> bigcalm: yay
  <popey> setiathome?
  <bigcalm> popey: would be more of a yay if it worked :P
  <popey> well, yes
  <bigcalm> I think that the number on thing that servers need is passwords
  <popey> oh?
  <bigcalm> You don't think?
  <HazRPG> rofl, have you seen how numb3rs describes irc?
  <popey> power
  <popey> cooling
  <HazRPG> I think its using IRSSI xD
  <HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ
  <gord> i love setting something "going" only to return to it half an hour later with it sitting on a password dialogue
  <popey> Yay! http://www.graze.com/b/GQXPP
  <daubers> Woot \o/ Missus is having dinner with her parents, which means it's take away and geeky tv night!
  <popey> tomorrows box is on the way
  <popey> yay daubers
  <popey> daubers: minecraft!
  <daubers> popey: I'm all Minecrafted out
  <popey> bah, unpossible!
  <daubers> I built my massive underground railway last night
  <daubers> Got fed up trying to keep the damn thing moving under it's own power....
  <daubers> I could sit and paint some Warhammer miniatures and watch Thunderbirds with a curry from the place down the road.
  <popey> but but but
  <popey> join us on the popey server :)
  <popey> or not :)
  <gord> daubers, do you know about boosters?
  <daubers> :p
  <daubers> gord: Yeah, I can't get them to work particularly well :(
  <gord> they aren't too tricky, poke me some time and i'll take a look
  <popey> tracks seem broken in smp
  <gord> no they work fine
  <popey> no, laying them
  <popey> put 10 in a row, the last one is wrong orientation
  <popey> lay the 11th, and that one flips, and the 11th is wrong
  <popey> so lay 100 in a row and you end up with a few here and there the wrong way round
  <popey> there's loads of them on the bridges in the popey map
  <gord> weird, doesn't happen on my server
  <popey> wonder if mine is outdated
  <hamitron> you not gonna reset? :(
  <popey> no
  <hamitron> thank gawd
  <hamitron> ;/
  <popey> just wondering if I need an updated jar file
  <gord> last one i got was for the colours update thingy
  <gord> i really need to figure out a way of farming sheep, seems like there is no good way of getting wool
  <hamitron> how much you need?
  <gord> hundreds and hundreds
  <hamitron> if you can put it to good use, can have mine
  <gord> meh i abandoned the giant zx spectrum mascots idea
  <popey> hmm, mine is outdates
  <popey> *outdated
  <popey> will update it later on
  <bigcalm> \o/
  <bigcalm> Hopefully not losing much
  <popey> gord: you could probably farm them with fast moving water :)
  <bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asImTDkPWKA
  <gord> yeah there are ways of building traps to basically farm anything that spawns on land, but those always feel like cheating
  <hamitron> help
  <popey> :)
  <bigcalm> Just set this video to full screen
  <bigcalm> I'm being sucked into the monitor
  <popey> :)
   * brobostigon shakes fist @ the adsl
  <n1md4> hello.  anyone know if it's possible to upgrade hardware RAID disk capacity on SAS1068.
  <directhex> n1md4, you're already using 8 disks?
  <n1md4> directhex: Sorry, 2 disk RAID1.
  <Azelphur> anyone know of an IRC bot that'll read an RSS feed and chuck new entries into a channel?
  <bigcalm> Azelphur: I'd suggest running an eggdrop and finding a tcl script to do that
  <OmNomSequitur> AnnoyBot6000.
  <Azelphur> bigcalm: :)
  <Azelphur> OmNomSequitur: haha, you know there's a bot in here that does it right? ;)
  <popey> ubuntuuk-planet <-
  <Azelphur> indeed
  <n1md4> Citing http://hwraid.le-vert.net/wiki/LSI "LSI MegaRAID SAS (megasr crap): This is the first of the broken cards series by LSI. I hope you don't have one." Well, I have! Lovely when that happens.
  <popey> :(
  <popey> whats broken about it?
  <popey> ahh, fakeraid
  <popey> say no more
  <popey> useful page
   * popey hugs bigcalm 
  <bigcalm> popey: I've just disconnected
  <popey> so i saw :)
   * popey pokes gord with a disconnection :)
  <selinuxium> Evening   o/
  <bigcalm> Omnipresent!
   * bigcalm drums his fingers
  <czajkowski> oh a selinuxium
  <bigcalm> I have trees to plant!
  <popey> yay
  <gord> popey, okay done that, sorry was logged in and left it running in the background, was just keeping the server from sleeping so my grass would grow
   * popey backs up first
  <popey> heheh
  <bigcalm> Gooooooooooooood
  <selinuxium> I do love joining the end of a conversation... :)
  <bigcalm> End?
  <bigcalm> It's pretty much constant
  <selinuxium> Well, not the beginning...
  <selinuxium> there is no end...
  <selinuxium> :)
  <bigcalm> There is no end to the minecraft talk
  <selinuxium> How is everyone today?
  <selinuxium> OH! I have yet to play it...
  <popey> dude!
  <MartijnVdS> You have yet to play today?
   * AlanBell also admits to a lack of minecraft experience
  <selinuxium> *cough*   ....ever ?
  <MartijnVdS> are you a Minecraft virgin, AlanBell?
   * AlanBell resists crude puns
  <AlanBell> never played it, yes
   * Darael sees no problem with not having played minecraft.  He hasn't either.
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: so am I, I don't have enough hours in the day to play too
  <popey> bigcalm / gord it's back
  <bigcalm> \o/
  <shauno> I can't touch minecraft.  I'm still recovering from a 3 year warcraft addiction.  And minecraft seems to just suck people right in
  <brobostigon> or the spare money, to buy it.
  <selinuxium> So has someone done a PPA for minecraft? or do I have to just download it?
  <bigcalm> popey: track is fixed
  <popey> its payware
  <popey> !
  <popey> seriously?
  <selinuxium> popey, O_o
  <bigcalm> popey: But we have to manually correct all of the kinks
  <popey> selinuxium: its cheap
  <popey> sure
  <popey> can do that in a train :)
  <selinuxium> People... Paying... For game.... On Linux... ;)
  <bigcalm> selinuxium: every platform
  <popey> selinuxium: its java
  <MartijnVdS> If you pay for Minecraft, you pay ORACLE
  <MartijnVdS> *ahem*
  <popey> haha
  <popey> yay, home time
  <popey> ttfn all
  <selinuxium> ttfn
   * daubers ponders which takeaway to go to
  <daubers> Chinese, nepalese, indian or the chippy
  <brobostigon> +1 indian
  <Darael> indian++; chinese++
  <MartijnVdS> indianese!
  <brobostigon> lol
  <directhex> korean!
  <maco> mmm bibimbap
  <directhex> korean's really uncommon in the uk, but i had some in cambridge
  <maco> hmm UK loses a point for lack of korean food then
  <TheOpenSourcerer> ++indian - and grab me a bag of Onion Bhaji too would you please?
  <directhex> maco, "ethnic foods" are tied to immigration. the uk is filled with people from india, bangladesh, and pakistan - not so much korea
  <directhex> or mexican
  <maco> i know theres at least some ethiopian there too
  <maco> because i looked up ethiopian restaurants in edinburgh to figure out the likelihood Riddell wouldve already tried it before visiting DC
  <MartijnVdS> Look what I found: http://www.imgur.com/dFYri.jpg
  <maco> directhex: one of the ethiopian restaurants in the city i grew up in was started by a lawyer who fell in love with the food while visiting DC all the time. DC has high ethiopian immigration, Pittsburgh does not
  <ali1234> MartijnVdS: nice
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: 12" -- another nice find at the local record store :)
  <directhex> maco, well, "tied to", not directly a part of ;)
  <daubers> \o/ went to the indian
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> hurray, my google extension is published :D
  <HazRPG> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gmkbolemmamlpfbnieckhgaghdccmkhe?hl=en
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: cool
  <brobostigon> wicked,
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks :)
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
  <HazRPG> finally I feel I gave back a lil ^^,
  <HazRPG> granted, can't take full ownership since the base is google's version - but I think I done some good tweaks to it :)
   * brobostigon gets HazRPG a congratulatory beer
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: hurray :D
   * HazRPG raises beer glass
   * brobostigon joins in.
  <MartijnVdS> congratulatory beer? count me in!
   * brobostigon gets MartijnVdS one.
  <HazRPG> \o/
   * HazRPG wondering if there's actually a need for an RSS subscribe addon to open up juice
  <gord> popey, maps don't seem to be generating :(
  <popey> yeah, supressed for a bit because they were bogging down and possibly causing lag
  <popey> did you notice any?
  <gord> nope
  <gord> do you not run the map gen with nice?
  <brobostigon> gammon, yummy, :)
  <gord> grass still hasn't grown far enough... left it for two hours already!
  <MartijnVdS> it's like watching grass grow/paint dry/etc.
  <popey> gord: hmm, nice idea
  <popey> GEDDIT!
  <popey> \o/ gord
  <popey> gord:
  <popey> gord:
  <popey> gord:
  <popey> :)
  <gord> you broke the server?
  <popey> minecraft, fullscreen in unity. IT R FIXED!
  <gord> oh cool
  <gord> wonder what went wrong
  <popey> oh, server broke?
  <gord> i alt tabbed back and i was disconnected, tried to connect and can't log in it seems
  <popey> it seems "busy"
  <popey> i blame you for recommending nice -19 :)
  <popey> "oops"
  <dogmatic69> hows the pizza?
  <popey> not arrived yet
  <gord> i didn't say nice -19!
  <popey> how do you specify +19?
  <gord> nice -n19
  <popey> ahh
  <popey> swapping its poor little heart out
  <gord> i'm not supprised :)
  <gord> "stop running the kernel! need to generate maps!!!"
  <popey> should be okay now
  <gord> ah there it goes
  <popey> unity fail
  <popey> well, sloppy focus fail
  <popey> i should turn that off
  <dogmatic69> popey: when did you start that map?
  <dogmatic69> before the updates or after?
  <czajkowski> hmm I am all out of something nice to eat ;( no goodies
   * czajkowski needs treats 
   * brobostigon scp's czajkowski some of his chocolate buttons.
  <gord> chocolate buttons are so great
  <czajkowski> :D
   * Darael looks disappointed that brobostigon used scp - now he can't intercept them.
  <brobostigon> hehe, :)
  <brobostigon> is there a prog i can use for google latitude, without acutally using google's latitude app. ?
  <HazRPG> what sort of things are you wanting that latitude provide?
  <Neoti> hey anyone use Trixbox/asterisk/freepbx?
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: friend location, and broadcastof mylocation. without the massive battery drain.
  <HazRPG> ah, is that on the android?
  <brobostigon> yes
  <brobostigon> 2.2.1
   * MartijnVdS has 2.2.2
  <brobostigon> :(
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: on Nexus One
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: htc dream.
  <MartijnVdS> is that the G1?
  <brobostigon> yes.
   * MartijnVdS strokes his Nexus
  <brobostigon> samething, justdifferent names.
   * brobostigon also strokes his g1
  <MartijnVdS> gave my magic to my dad
  <MartijnVdS> he has 2.2.x now as well
   * brobostigon wouldnt say no to a donated upgrade.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you're a bit young to be my dad, sorry :P
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true, iamsure, :)
  <czajkowski> popey: did you ever have a job working with trains
  <popey> czajkowski: nope :)
  <czajkowski> popey: just a child hood love :)
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: hmmm, trying to find something for ya but can't see to find anything, you could always try to make your own?
  <HazRPG> the API's are out there
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have a Nexus One too :)
  <HazRPG> well worth the import :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i thought so, iihavent found anything either.
  <AlanBell> tax return done \o/
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> \o/
   * AlanBell rewards himself with a hot chocolate with Baileys
  <brobostigon> yummy,
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: ^5
  <AlanBell> ^5
  <Azelphur> Oh dear, anonymous just declared open season on the UK police force
  <Azelphur> I think we're kinda screwed now
  <gord> oh noe, they might make a website go offline
  <Azelphur> lol
  <Azelphur> gord: or take out a call center, or start a huge protest
  <Azelphur> or DDoS a fax machine, who knows with those nutters. I'm sure they'll come up with something inventive.
  <brobostigon> or DDoS'ing the number10 website. who-ho.
  <gord> they never actually do anything big, they do one thing that gets them some attention then skulk off declaring victory even though nothing has changed
  <Azelphur> *shrug*
  <brobostigon> hmm,
  <brobostigon> !
  <drt494223> how can i extract the audio from flv files? (wanting to get youtube mp3 rips)
  <brobostigon> ffmpeg
  <gord> mplayer foobar.flv -dumpaudio
  <drt494223> danke ,
   * brobostigon implors gord to say bitte,
  <drt494223> didnt work :(   it creates a file called stream.data  ; not playable by mplayer
  <ali1234> drt494223: i've used ffmpeg for that before, let me check ...
  <ali1234> specifically i decomposed a flv to wav audio and png sequence so i could put it back together and have the audio stay in sync
  <drt494223> i tried using ffmpeg just now,   with this cmdline : ffmpeg -i bqpXy991dGY.flv  -f mp3 -vn -acodec copy ouputfile.mp3
  <drt494223> file outputfile.mp3 says its an audio file, but still mplayer cant play it
  <drt494223> ali1234: how would i do that?
  <ali1234> hmmmmmmm my usb drive has gone funny
  <brobostigon> drt494223: have youtried toplay it with vlc , which uses ffmpeg.
  <drt494223> brobostigon: didnt work
  <brobostigon> drt494223: have you got ubuntu-restricted-extras installed.
  <drt494223> brobostigon: how to check?
  <brobostigon> drt494223: in synaptic, searchfor it, and it will tell you.
  <drt494223> i have ....buntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main restricted   in sources.list
  <brobostigon> drt494223: ubuntu-restricted-extras is a package, not a repo.
  <drt494223> brobostigon: ok, its installed now
  <brobostigon> drt494223: it inscludes packages for restrcited formats, hence the name,like mp3, which is according to dfsg a restricted format.
  <drt494223> well i managed it now with this:   ffmpeg -i bqpXy991dGY.flv -acodec copy bqpXy991dGY.aac
  <drt494223> thnx all
  <brobostigon> you're welcome drt494223.
   * brobostigon rocks out to hendrix, (bbc4)
  <brobostigon> :( only one song.
  <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well all.
  <BigRedS> g'night brobostigon!
  <brobostigon> nos da BigRedS
  #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-29
  <devush> hi trying to share the directory in 10.10 running on vmware player under XP host.
  <devush> i can ping the XP host from ubuntu and access the internet though vmware NAT setup.
  <devush>  but can not ping from the XP to ubuntu. ? is there any firewall by default. how to change that
  <HazRPG> hmmm, I appear to be getting DOS and Port Scans from freenode :/
  <HazRPG> anyone else getting this?
  <HazRPG> or at least I'm guessing 85.190.0.3 is freenode...
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: how do you figure it's a DoS?
  <HazRPG> Azelphur: My router logged and reported it as such
  <HazRPG> logged like 10 times
  <Azelphur> routers are generally stupid
  <Azelphur> my old one would continually log me playing TF2 as a DoS attack
  <HazRPG> my internet also went down not long after it logged those
  <Azelphur> it's probably just freenode scanning for open proxies, a lot of networks do that
  <HazRPG> yeah I know freenode does that - I remember reading it somewhere on their website under the terms of use or something like that
  <Azelphur> :)
   * HazRPG always reads the fine print ;)
  <HazRPG> I was just checking to make sure it was a false negative on my router's part
  <HazRPG> might see if I can set up a rule to ignore that IP as a DoS
  <HazRPG> I really have a sudden urge to wipe my server... I blame hak5 for that lol
  <Azelphur> o.O
  <HazRPG> By the face I'm guessing you don't know what hak5 is then xD
  <HazRPG> hak5.org <== mega awesome sauce of a web-show
  <Azelphur> it's some tech blog?
  <HazRPG> sort of ... but in video form ;)
  <HazRPG> I've learned so much from these guys ever since they started up in 2005
  <HazRPG> I highly recommend season 6-7.
  <HazRPG> Think there's a torrent on their forum to grab the older episodes
  <Azelphur> cool :)
  <HazRPG> new stuff so far is CES conference stuff mainly, which has some awesome new gadgets n stuff coming out - but the thing that's really got me going is the cool project they've got going - making some a VPS of your own - and making a cluster of them too
  <HazRPG> [thus the reason I want to format my server haha]
  <HazRPG> That, and the fact that I REALLY want to get my hands dirty with some ubuntu server stuff
  <HazRPG> or debian - whichever
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: I already have a big ubuntu server :)
  <HazRPG> Azelphur: nice :P
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: http://game.azelphur.com/forum/low-down-new-server
  <hamitron> poser ;/
  <HazRPG> wow
  <Azelphur> :D
  <HazRPG> do your players help fund it?
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: yea
  <Azelphur> I get a bit off adsense too.
  <HazRPG> I mean I know that's a pretty decent price for that kind of server, but its not exactly pocket change :P
  <HazRPG> ah cool
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: you can see donation stats on the left
  <Azelphur> they include adsense too
  <HazRPG> cool
  <HazRPG> pretty impressive use of drupal there I must say :)
  <Azelphur> ty :D
  <HazRPG> theme hand coded?
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: I quite like the server status thing in the top left too
  <Azelphur> nope, the theme is pixture_reloaded
  <Azelphur> but the donations and server status thing is custom code
  <HazRPG> yeah I was going to say I've not seen those two before
  <HazRPG> ^^,
  <Azelphur> :)
  <Azelphur> the game servers have a plugin that updates their status in MySQL as it changes
  <Azelphur> and the website just pulls from that
  <hamitron> how long does stuff from boffer take to arrive azel?
  <Azelphur> hamitron: dunno, like a week?
  <hamitron> cool
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> I got the pack of skype keyboards
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <HazRPG> boffer?
  <Azelphur> HazRPG: I have my own mini qdb/bash.org too in drupal :P
  <HazRPG> heh nice :P
  <HazRPG> never really messed around with drupal much, feel inspired to do so for my next rendition of my portfolio site
  <Azelphur> it's a great tool :)
  <HazRPG> my current one became more of a code template then an actual portfolio site :P
  <HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/
  <Azelphur> :)
  <HazRPG> should forward you to /port_mine/
  <Azelphur> yea
  <HazRPG> since / is my original one and it looks really dated now
  <HazRPG> for you to really get a feel of the template you'd have to see the proper php side of the code - however I also tried to make a nicely structured html side too
  <HazRPG> that way it could /potentially/ fit into any website
  <HazRPG> css-wise I mean
  <Azelphur> hehe :)
  <HazRPG> wow, I started that site in 2008 xD
  <HazRPG> it was used for this project http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/bat/ and they were quite happy with it, however hasn't been merged to the main site yet
  <Azelphur> :D
  <HazRPG> cos it was a "project" for uni to work for a company for free :/
  <HazRPG> it was me an 3 other dudes
  <HazRPG> I was doing the site, someone else did designs and another grabbed and formatted the content
  <HazRPG> I had the hard job basically - but well I'm good at it, or at least I'd say I was
  <HazRPG> and well, the content guy failed the year, so he's re-doing it
  <HazRPG> and well he's decided to continue doing the same project :/
  <HazRPG> which I think is a dumb move
  <HazRPG> since he's not a coder, by any means
  <HazRPG> but well whatever
  <HazRPG> it will, hopefully, replace this: http://borderairtraining.com/
  <HazRPG> which, sadly, looks a mess
  <HazRPG> I think I talk to much sometimes
  <HazRPG> too*
   * HazRPG sits quietly
  <hamitron> :)
  <HazRPG> hamitron: sup dude :)
  <hamitron> just chilling
  <hamitron> literally
  <hamitron> cold again :/
  <HazRPG> same
  <HazRPG> can't wait for spring
  <matelot> can someone help me figure out why I can not access my home netwrok http server
  <matelot> from external
  <AlanBell> morning all
  <AlanBell> matelot: sounds like something you need to set up on your router
  <matelot> AlanBell I did port-forwarding, let me show
  <matelot> http running: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/328610/
  <matelot> port forwardiong: http://i.imgur.com/3gAQ6.jpg
  <AlanBell> matelot: I think that your http server is bound to localhost
  <matelot> AlanBell oh really , how to fix that ?
  <AlanBell> you have given it a port, but not an IP address
  <matelot> iI can see the page locally like : http://192.168.1.102:8080/
  <matelot> that's where I port-forwarding to (192.168.1.102)
  <AlanBell> oh ok, maybe it is working
  <AlanBell> so you can see it from another machine on your local network
  <AlanBell> the router settings look ok (although you are currently forwarding all ports from 80 to 8080 to that machine)
  <AlanBell> how are you testing it from the outside?
  <matelot> AlanBell: sorry just back now - I test from my workplace PC via RDP
  <AlanBell> fair enough
  <AlanBell> that should work
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - quiet in here isn't it?
  <AlanBell> BOO
  <czajkowski> Aloha
  <AlanBell> would never have put you as an in the night garden fan czajkowski
  <czajkowski> thats it
  <AlanBell> iggle piggle and the tombelyboos and so on
  <czajkowski> more amusing is the mickey mouse and his tool kit game
  <czajkowski> yes
  <czajkowski> dora the explorer is also good, but a bit advanced for a 2 year old
  <AlanBell> Â¡Hola!
  <czajkowski> :s
  <MartijnVdS> OUCH MY LEGS
  <MartijnVdS> (http://goo.gl/maps/BjXC)
  <gabrieluk> hello!
  <gabrieluk> Im using the touchpad of my laptop.why do i feel the mouse goes faster horizontal than vertical?
  <MartijnVdS> because there are more pixels horizontally and it's compensating?
  <MartijnVdS> also, humans are biased -- up/down things always seem smaller than left/right ones :)
  <gabrieluk> :)
  <gabrieluk> i dunno...it just feels wierd...it looks that whrn i go left/right goes faster...i dont have this feeling on windows or mac
  <MartijnVdS> I don't know what it could be
  <gabrieluk> btw,i'm loving being a linux guy finally :P
  <MartijnVdS> nice to hear
  <popey> morning all!
   * MartijnVdS upgrades laptop to natty
  <MartijnVdS> popey: morning!
  <daubers> Morning
  <DJones> Morning all
  <MartijnVdS> everyone's waking up :)
  <DJones> Heh
  <DJones> Is there a way to tell how much video memory is being used?
  <DJones> Or more specifically, how much is available
  <MartijnVdS> DJones: good question :)
  <MartijnVdS> I have no idea how to look that up
  <DJones> One updates finish, I'll try installing sysinfo & hardinfo
  <DJones> s/One/Once
  <gabrieluk> DJones,this might help u http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1398776
  <Thingymebob> MartijnVdS: Use lspci to find you device then lspci -v -s 00:02.0 where the number represents the address of your video device
  <DJones> Hmmh, Memory at fecf0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
  <gabrieluk> DJones,sry,i just "googled" that,the link does not answer
  <DJones> gabrieluk: No worries, I've found one that might help, but I think the answer is the 4K
  <DJones> actually, maybe not
  <gabrieluk> Is there a link with cool clt commands that i can "play" around to learn ubuntu?not a beginners guide,just a list with cool and usefull commands
  <Thingymebob> DJones: This is a nice one grep: -i ram /var/log/Xorg.0.log; grep -i mem /var/log/Xorg.0.log
  <DJones> Thingymebob: Thanks, 131072 KB
  <gabrieluk> look what i found,it might be usefull http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1543783
  <DJones> gabrieluk: "clt" commands, was that meant to be "cli" commands?
  <gabrieluk> lol,yes and no.clt ,control line terminal
  <gabrieluk> cli,control line interface,right?
  <DJones> !cli
  <lubotu3> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal or type in it: man intro
  <DJones> Maybe something useful in that
  <gabrieluk> thanks,i dont know where i heard clt..lol
  <gabrieluk> !clt
  <gabrieluk> who  da heck told me clt...o myy
  <Thingymebob> gabrieluk: http://www.commandlinefu.com/
  <brobostigon> morning all.
  <brobostigon> bbc news have killed click again, for other stuff, :(
  <bigcalm> popey: there's a fun little rollercoaster near the spawn point now :)
  <czajkowski> Aloha
  <brobostigon> afternoonings czajkowski
  <Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
  <jacobw> good afternoon ubunteros
  <brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw
  <HazRPG> hey hey
  <brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: o/ :)
  <Gringo> guys quick question is there something similar to nero i can download?
  <AlanBell> brassero burns CDs and things
  <jacobw> Brasero is included in the default install
  <HazRPG> Gringo: for ubuntu? Use brassero
  <BigRedS> depensd how similar you're after. There is a pay-for Nero for Linux. Else K3B is quite close, and brasero less so but easier
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: :) o/
  <BigRedS> K3B involves a whole bunch of additional libraries that you'd probably rather not need to install
  <Gringo> brassero anygood? already in ubunto or i need to apt-get?
  <jacobw> I'd give Brasero a go first, seen as its in the default install it should meet the needs of most users
  <BigRedS> already there, but I think it goes by "CD burning" or something in the menu
  <HazRPG> Gringo: already in there dude ;)
  <Gringo> tried it but it broze on me
  <Gringo> i put wreritable disc dragged few mp3's and broze up
  <HazRPG> froze you mean?
  <Gringo> yes, sorry
  <Gringo> says starting recording but my dvd drive aint doing nothing
  <HazRPG> give it a moment, it'll start burning - are you making an audio CD?
  <HazRPG> if it is, it'll be normalising audio/etc
  <Gringo> i dragged few mp3,s to it, itsre-writeble disc
  <HazRPG> hmm, not sure - never tried a used a rewritable
  <Gringo> says burning audio cd, and starting to record under the the bar that goes across but the bar is stuck in the middle
  <brobostigon> help.ubuntu.com/community might be worth a look.
  <Gringo> any other program
  <HazRPG> Gringo: which version of ubuntu are you using?
  <Gringo> latest
  <brobostigon> 10.10 ?
  <brobostigon> 11.04?
  <Gringo> 10.04 (lucid)
  <Gringo> 64bit
  <HazRPG> Gringo: the reason brobostigon asks is because 10.10 is the last version released and 11.04 is the latest but still in alpha stages
  <HazRPG> Gringo: have you downloaded all the lastest updates/patches?
  <brobostigon> however 10.04 was the last LTS i believe,
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah :)
  <HazRPG> Gringo: LTS = Long Term Support
  <Gringo> ah thanx, i downloaded it few days ago using wibi so i thought i had latest, how do i get 1010?
  <HazRPG> Gringo: you can either download an ISO for the latest from: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download
  <Gringo> what happens with the short term support?
  <HazRPG> Gringo: the way ubuntu works is, a new version is released every 6 months
  <HazRPG> which is where you get the version numbers "<Year>.<Month>"
  <HazRPG> so 10.10 = 2010 October
  <brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
  <AlanBell> you can upgrade 10.04 to 10.10
  <Gringo> the short version will we still get support? if not what happens after 6 months
  <HazRPG> the LTS versions of ubuntu will be updated for 5 years I think
  <AlanBell> it won't prompt you to do so until the next LTS though
  <Gringo> and after 5 years? ubuntu no more?
  <brobostigon> Gringo: its describes the support periods onthe site mentioned.
  <Gringo> sorry guys im new to ubuntu always used windows
  <HazRPG> Gringo: its cool dude, don't worry - we were all there at one point too ;)
  <brobostigon> definatly, :)
  <brobostigon> we are here to help,Gringo :)
  <HazRPG> regular versions of ubuntu (not LTS) will still get updates for a year or 2 years I think?
  <HazRPG> oh, its 3 years
  <HazRPG> my mistake
  <HazRPG> so regular = 3 years support, LTS = 5 year support
  <AlanBell> there is a nice chart explaining it somewhere
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah I was trying to find it :P
  <brobostigon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
  <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: On the ball there dude ;)
  <Gringo> after 3 years what does that exactly mean? we dont get ubuntu updates?
  <AlanBell> correct, but you have new versions you can upgrade to
  <HazRPG> Gringo: basically yeah - but after 3 years, there will have been 6 versions of ubuntu been released
  <AlanBell> updates are things like security fixes, small things that fix the versions of applications you already have
  <Gringo> oh i see but then u can upgrade to a new version and have further updates?
  <AlanBell> releases will take a load of applications up a full version level and could have more substantial changes
  <Gringo> how do i get 10.10 within ubuntu? package manager?
  <AlanBell> update manager
  <AlanBell> which is in the system menu somewhere
  <AlanBell> then go to the settings button
  <AlanBell> third tab is updates
  <brobostigon> however as its lts,dontyou have to tell it to allow upgrades to normalversios, and not just lts's.
  <AlanBell> at the bottom there is a dropdown "show new distribution releases"
  <Gringo> guys 1 more quick question, just click on the update manager and check for updates it found 3 but its saying not authenticated  you are about to install software that cant be authenticated, is this safe?
  <AlanBell> change that from "Long term support releases only" to "normal releases"
  <brobostigon> ah, i just noticed, :)
  <HazRPG> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference between a linux distro (e.g. ubuntu) and a microsoft release (e.g. Windows) is that linux is ever changing to fix bugs, errors, security, visuals of how things look, etc... so you'll find that updates for your system will happen almost daily or weekly of some kind.
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: nope, you are wrong :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: or even by minute or hour.
  <HazRPG> xD
  <Gringo> guys this updates are ok? not authenticated
  <AlanBell> Gringo: yeah, it is OK
  <HazRPG> Gringo: yeah dude, you won't have to worry as much as you do on a windows machine
  <Gringo> thanx guys i will try to upgrade and report back, thanx again guys , i appreciate your help
  <brobostigon> Gringo: pleasebackup, justtobe safe,before hand.
  <AlanBell> if you change that dropdown then update manager should offer a distribution upgrade to 10.10
  <HazRPG> Gringo: btw, another way to upgrade is by downloading the ISO and using the burned CD to upgrade
  <Gringo> i dont need firewall or antivirus? im only using firewall from my router
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: only the alternate CD
  <AlanBell> !firewall
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu, like any other Linux distribution, has firewall capabilities built-in. The firewall is managed using the 'ufw' command - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW | An alternative to ufw is the 'iptables' command - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IptablesHowTo | GUI frontends such as Firestarter/Gufw (Gnome) or Guarddog (KDE) also exist.
  <AlanBell> !virus
  <lubotu3> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux, except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: does ubuntu not accept upgrades from CD anymore?
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: not the live CD as it doesn't contain the packaged packages as such
  <brobostigon> ie, proper debian packages.
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: oh, heh I thought it worked on both
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: I'm sure back in 6.06 I upgrade to 6.10 via a LiveCD :s
  <HazRPG> upgraded*
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: was it ncurses or live installation  ?
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: ?
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: the installation cd method, you used.
  <HazRPG> I could have sworn when I popped the LiveCD back then of 6.10 it asked if I wanted to use it as a repo, and then update-manager suggested an upgrade using the disc
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: as the ncurses,ie alternate installer has proper debian packages. however the live cd doesnt.
  <HazRPG> it still had to download a few files during install - but was handy
  <HazRPG> you know, could easily have been the alt-CD but I didn't realise
  <HazRPG> (I always download all versions, since I can distribute it around to people :))
  <AlanBell> I think the live CD has about 3 packages on it so it does prompt you but it doesn't actually do much
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: personally I find it's easier to keep /home on a separate partition and just re-install the whole O/S from scratch ^^,
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i test both ways, sometimes it works better than others,
  <brobostigon> personally i prefer, the alternate cd, as i like the ncurses debian installer.
  <AlanBell> contents of the /pool directory on 10.04 LTS http://paste.ubuntu.com/559896/
  <AlanBell> you can do a magic trick where you do an over the top install without nuking /home and without separate partitions
  <HazRPG> really?
  <Azelphur> AlanBell: you own omg ubuntu?
  <AlanBell> I think popey may have written about it somewhere
  <AlanBell> Azelphur: gah, no
  <Azelphur> haha
   * Nafallo waits for btrfs to land instead
  <AlanBell> d00d and humphreybc do
  <AlanBell> Azelphur: why on earth would you think that?
  <Azelphur> I see :)
  <Azelphur> your recent twitter post says "Our exclusive interview with Linus Torvalds" and links to omgubuntu
  <HazRPG> xD
  <AlanBell> links to a post on OMG entitled "Our exclusive interview with Linus Torvalds"
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <AlanBell> http://www.ohso.co/about.html
  <Azelphur> fun :p
  <Azelphur> sigh, x freeze again :(
  <Azelphur> haha, thats interesting
  <Azelphur> since X crashed twice in a matter of minutes i decided to reboot
  <AlanBell> popey is now running a session in #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat
  <MartijnVdS> Thingymebob: that's total video memory, not "in use" or "unused" :)
  <Azelphur> now it says device /home is busy
  <AlanBell> do go watch/heckle
  <AlanBell>                     ^^^^^^ actually don't do that bit
  <Azelphur> xD
  <AlanBell> The session is called "How to fix a broken machine"
  <Azelphur> there, got my PC back up after the X crash now :P
  <Pendulum> sounds like Azelphur could use popey's session...
  <Azelphur> haha
  <Azelphur> Pendulum: I doubt his session will cover quad screen setups which cause X instability
  <Pendulum> fair enough
  <Azelphur> I am in there though :D
  <popey> wish i had more time to cover more stuff
  <AlanBell> it was good
  <AlanBell> and I appreciated the chicken hilight in it :)
  <popey> hehe :)
   * czajkowski has some fillet steak in, pepper sauce and potato gratins
  <czajkowski> just made some white chocolate buns :D
  <AlanBell> they do look nice
  <czajkowski> :D
  <HazRPG> hmmm, anyone know if its costly to use a CNC machine?
  <HazRPG> OMG HE'S GOING TO MAKE A PORTAL SHIRT!
  <HazRPG> :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O !!!!!!!!
  <Pendulum> czajkowski: you're getting far too domestic :P Where's the JD?
  <czajkowski> Pendulum: bottle of wine
  <HazRPG> heh, that was meant for a different chat... but still!
   * HazRPG watching The Ben Heck Show
  <HazRPG> engineering ftw!
  <czajkowski> Pendulum: Red and white
   * Neoti now has ubuntu 10.10 on my new system!!! \0/
  <brobostigon> :)
  <Neoti> hey brobostigon. hows u
  <brobostigon> Neoti: alittlecool, myhip and backhurt, but otherwise good. how about you?
  <Neoti> i have a couple broken nails my leg hurts .... just put a bed up .... can sleep a lot better tonight !! yey ...
   * brobostigon gets Neoti a drink,
   * Neoti accepts drink!!..... suggests a coffee for us both!!
  <samuel> ;p
   * czajkowski grins at AlanBell 
  <brobostigon> scp --- Pot of coffee ------ Neoti's Hand
  <Neoti> Nice!!! ....
   * Neoti off to make a well deserved coffee.....
  <samuel> whts this about
  <brobostigon> samuel: we are the uk ubuntu loco itc channel.
  <brobostigon> irc*
  <samuel> righty ho, im quite new to ubuntu and ll
  <bigcalm> Neoti: on 1st read, I thought you had broken a couple of nails while installing Ubuntu 10.10
  <brobostigon> samuel: welcome, :)
  <samuel> thanks :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <samuel> forgive me for being dumb but whats an irc channel
  <bigcalm> This is
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <bigcalm> #ubuntu-uk is an IRC channel
  <brobostigon> onthe network freenode
  <samuel> yes i see.
  <bigcalm> Freenode is a network of IRC servers. Within that network, you have thousands of channels
  <brobostigon> irc = internet relay chat
  <samuel> what does it get used for?
  <brobostigon> samuel: you name it.
  <bigcalm> Conversations such as this :)
  <samuel> :0)
  <samuel> would i be right in saying that it one could use it for I.T support??
  <brobostigon> samuel: yes, :)
  <brobostigon> like here, :)
  <samuel> thats cool
  <HazRPG> samuel: delayed, but welcome :)
  <jacobw> that is the primary function of this channel
  <HazRPG> indeed
  <bigcalm> Well, within the realms of Ubuntu anyways
  <bigcalm> -s
  <HazRPG> one of the many frequents of this channel should be able to help with most problems ubuntu related - if not, we try our best to see if we can find a solution somewhere
  <jacobw> it isn't a guarantee though, everybody here is a volunteer and isn't obliged to answer any given question
  <jacobw> but most people try to answer most questions
  <samuel> seems convenient
  <HazRPG> oh, don't feel insulted if no one replies straight away, remember some people are logged in on here from work, home, etc so some of them might not be around when you asked the question straight away - but they do try their best as soon as they do become available
  <HazRPG> some people might have also seen the question and have started looking it up for you, and will reply when they've found a solution - all depends on the type of people
  <samuel> ok well thankyou all and thanks for the warm welcome
  <HazRPG> no problem, hope to see you around :)
  <HazRPG> I find it odd that we only really get like 152 people in this channel
  <HazRPG> or sometimes a bit more
  <HazRPG> would have thought there was more people in the UK using ubuntu than that
  <mattt> anyone in/around london want to buy a relatively new msi wind u230 netbook?  :D
   * HazRPG lives far north
   * brobostigon also, kinda,south midlands.
  <HazRPG> brb
   * Neoti had a nice cup of coffee.... back now
   * jacobw has also just had a nice cup of coffee
  <jacobw> milk first ftw
  <brobostigon> Neoti: me too, a nice coffee aswell. :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some people in this channel aren't in the uk at all ;)
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: then get out!
  <mattt> (kidding)
  <MartijnVdS> :'(
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: true... but they are brits though right?
   * MartijnVdS is Dutch
  <HazRPG> I mean I know ball is british...
  <HazRPG> oh really?
   * HazRPG hugs MartijnVdS
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: where in nl?
   * brobostigon also hugs MartijnVdS 
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: in the middle between all the big cities :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I fucking love love nl dude
  <jacobw> did you know that hjkl scrolls in evince the same that it does in vi?
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: (in a town called "Alphen")
  <HazRPG> I would really love to go to the Blender studio in amsterdam!
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: unsurprisingly, never heard of it :D
  <OmNomSequitur> What's the maximum amount of RAM a 64-bit Ubuntu install can address?
  <jacobw> "the continent" ftw
  <mattt> would love to do a road trip through holland
  <HazRPG> OmNomSequitur: Err... lots?
  <OmNomSequitur> ...
  <brobostigon> OmNomSequitur: its probebly inthe terabytes.
  <HazRPG> OmNomSequitur: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/32bit_and_64bit
  <Nafallo> hopefully more than terabytes :-)
  <HazRPG> OmNomSequitur: 16EB enough?
  <Nafallo> otherwise we'll need 128-bit soon.
  <brobostigon> petabytes.
   * mattt heads off to watch the game
  <jacobw> OmNomSequitur: 2^64 bits i imagine
  <jacobw> give or take a few :p
  <HazRPG> 16.8 Million TB ;)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> OmNomSequitur: which is why I said lots ;)
   * Nafallo grins
  <Nafallo> the initial response was off by a "few millions"
   * brobostigon wishes the football away.
  <HazRPG> erm, your more likely to find limits within your hardware then you are the operating system
   * HazRPG agrees with brobostigon
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: in the middle between Amsterdam and Rotterdam (north/south), and in the middle between Utrecht and Leiden (east/west)
   * HazRPG goes to make himself a shisha pipe with some watermelon tobacco :)
  <Nafallo> hardware wise the biggest I've seen in a single system is 4TB.
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: or just check google maps :P
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I've been to both Utrecht and Amsterdam :)
  <jacobw> :o that's huge
  <HazRPG> I stayed in Utrecht, but took the train to Amsterdam, what a lovely country :)
  <brobostigon> and greatbeer, :)
  <HazRPG> totally :)
   * HazRPG was really amused by the bicycle parks xD
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they're useful
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: we have an apple-shaped bicycle park here :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.metaalnieuws.nl/nieuws/4826/fiets-stallen-in-een-appel-van-thermisch-verzinkt-staal-.html
  <HazRPG> haha awesome
  <HazRPG> just loaded his shisha pipe
  <HazRPG> almost time to smoke :)
  <HazRPG> cherry flavour :)
  <HazRPG> (this is what happens when one gets too lazy to go to the shop to get cigs xD)
  <MartijnVdS> that, or you quit :P
  <HazRPG> that would be too easy xD
  <bigcalm> Good luck
   * brobostigon wants a pipe like the one HazRPG has.
  <gord> phew, finally finished my minecraft project
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: they're awesome :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: however to do so, iwould either have to into the shed, according to out rental agreement, i am not allowed to smoke inside.
  <brobostigon> our*
  <HazRPG> heh the joys of my parents working abroad :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> also, mum smokes so she doesn't mind
  <brobostigon> i see.
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i think iwill have to make a geek leir, a build a shed with electricity and heating etc.
  <gord> i don't let anyone smoke in my house, not sure if its against my rental agreement, but its sure against gords "i don't want my house to stink of smoke" rule
  <MartijnVdS> gord: I have that rule as well :)
  <dutchie> gord: what is your minecraft project?
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: go for it :P
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i think i will save abit of money, and do it,
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: problem solved then.
  <gord> dutchie, its on popeys server
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: ^^,
  <HazRPG> I've never done much in the ways of woodworks... but I'll lend a hand if ya want :)
  <brobostigon> brobostigon's geek leir, :)
  <dutchie> i was hoping to get some work done today and not play minecraft
  <MartijnVdS> "Welcome to my underground lair"
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: thank you for the offer.
  <dutchie> oh well
  <HazRPG> I'm good with network cables, a crimp tool, etc
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: thts would definatly be helpful.
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: can you do wireless cables?
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: lay cables under the back lawn.
   * HazRPG <== doesn't trust wireless
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you need better quality wifi cables :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> nah, all you need is some CAT5/6 and some bare copper wires
  <HazRPG> rap copper wires around CAT5/6
  <HazRPG> attach each end to an antenna... sorted
  <HazRPG> wireless cables xD
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> gonna see if the phones have been reinstated in egypt and give my mum a call - see how the Egyptians are doing
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i saw earlier, they were. on one of the rss i am subscribed to.
   * brobostigon swears he heard a cracking noise when he just moved.
  <Pendulum> brobostigon: that does happen sometimes
  <suprengr> brobostigon:  that'll be the the splinter in the finger
  <suprengr> [..& hi all o/  ]
  <brobostigon> Pendulum: yes, i am just concerned as to idf it was related to my osteoporosis.
  <brobostigon> suprengr: nope.
  <Pendulum> brobostigon: fair enough. I've got a condition called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome so I constantly snap, crackle, and pop
   * suprengr thinks whooops... made a boo boo there
  <brobostigon> Pendulum: ah, interesting.
  <Pendulum> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehlers%E2%80%93Danlos_syndrome (if you're interested)
  <brobostigon> Pendulum: thank you, yes.
  <Pendulum> brobostigon: if you have questions, feel free to PM me
  <brobostigon> Pendulum: will do, :)
  <Pendulum> (although it looks like I may be teaching a class now so I may take some time to respond ;) )
  <brobostigon> no worries.
  <Neoti> Hey people i need a screen capturing program like greenshot or snagit for ubuntu .... any ideas ?
  <suprengr> Neoti: Video or still? For normal screen capture 'with a plus' [better choices] try looking at "Shutter" -  in normal repos / software manager... & normal 'don't blame me's' apply,
  <Neoti> i need one for stills and one for doing screen casts like on my vblog here http://www.youtube.com/uandmeboth12?gl=GB&hl=en-GB
  <DJones> !screencast
  <lubotu3> Some programs to capture your screen are recordmydesktop, Istanbul, Wink, Xvidcap, pyvnc2swf.  Also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreenCasts.
  <selinuxium> Hi all
  <HazRPG> woo, families doing ok
  <HazRPG> although apparently they started throwing tear gas on the street where my mum lives
  <HazRPG> joys lol
  <brobostigon> thats good to hear, they are ok.
  <HazRPG> tottaly
  <HazRPG> Hopefully Mubarak will be a good boy and step down ^^,
  <directhex> HazRPG, no problems calling them? i guess the phones are back?
  <directhex> oh no, looters hit the egypt museum /o\
  <popey> evening all
  <HazRPG> directhex: yeah, just came back on a few hrs ago apparently lol
  <HazRPG> popey: evening
  <HazRPG> directhex: really!?
  <HazRPG> directhex: you watching the news?
  <directhex> HazRPG, i am
  <HazRPG> directhex: ... I need to get me a TV in this room T_T
  <bigcalm> Evening popey
  <directhex> HazRPG, online streaming
   * HazRPG light bulb flashes over head
  <Pendulum> HazRPG: glad your family is okay!
   * HazRPG facepalms himself
  <HazRPG> thanks :)
  <HazRPG> I think we should make an open-sourced government for them xD
  <directhex> http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
  <HazRPG> directhex: yeah, I was watching it :P
  <HazRPG> but the arabic version
  <HazRPG> sometimes its funny to stop the differences in news
  <directhex> HazRPG, my arabic isn't quite good enough for the news
  <HazRPG> :p
  <HazRPG> directhex: wait, you know arabic at all?
  <directhex> no!
  <HazRPG> ^^,
  <popey> anyone on natty noticed the "grab handles" for resizing a window up or left are _outside_ the window?
  <HazRPG> gotta love english news, and trying to pronounce names right xD
  <HazRPG> altho its spent tahrir - its sort of pronounced as Tah-rear
   * czajkowski yawns 
  <HazRPG> popey: don't think I have dude
  <popey> are you on natty now in unity?
  <HazRPG> nah, not right now
  <HazRPG> got it on my laptop
  <HazRPG> which is off
  <HazRPG> I'll check it in a moment, gotta go sort something else out first
  <MartijnVdS> AlJazeera English is also on freeview and freesat
  <HazRPG> still need a tv ;)
  <popey> AIUI a new satellite is going up to sit with Astra ones in place and will have a smaller footprint MartijnVdS
  <popey> apparently channels will move to that so you scummy europeans cant steal our telly :)
  <MartijnVdS> popey: Not if the channel islands need to keep "in focus" :)
  <MartijnVdS> popey: and Northern Ireland
  <popey> it's quite a funky footprint
  <HazRPG> rofl
  <HazRPG> really?
  <HazRPG> that's just plain daft
  <HazRPG> they should make a world network - to share all channels
  <MartijnVdS> popey: also, Al Jazeera English is on Astra 1 as well, so I can watch it anyway
  <HazRPG> that would be awesome :)
  <popey> sure
  <popey> I meant more our beloved BBC :)
  <HazRPG> oh lol
  <popey> Don't want you watching Total Wipeout (UK Edition) now do we!
  <MartijnVdS> popey: I'll find a way of watching :)
  <MartijnVdS> popey: don't worry
   * popey shakes fist at europeans
  <HazRPG> torrents \o/
  <HazRPG> er, I mean iPlayer via VPN!
  <HazRPG> er... I mean
  <HazRPG> don't do illegal things people!
  <brobostigon> get_iplaayer via a proxy
  <HazRPG> *fags fingers*
  <MartijnVdS> popey: do you know the name of the new sat?
  <popey> no
  <popey> someone at work was talking about it
  <popey> ITVHD isnt on freesat is it?
  <HazRPG> I want BASR :(
  <Nafallo> yeah... cause that works so well with the Internet :-P (global network, except Egypt)
  <MartijnVdS> popey: it is
  <popey> is c4hd?
  <MartijnVdS> popey: no
  <popey> ah, that was it
  <HazRPG> Nafallo: ?
  <popey> yeah, C4HD will move over to the new satellite so it will appear on freesat
  <HazRPG> Badr <== I mean
  <HazRPG> that's the satellite I want to pick up
  <HazRPG> or nilesat/arabsat/hotbird
   * HazRPG missing watching arabic films
  <Nafallo> HazRPG: what?
  <directhex> hotbird 6 you can get from the uk
  <HazRPG> directhex: oh realy?
  <directhex> HazRPG, you'll need a dish pointed at it, of course
  <HazRPG> I bought a box from egypt last time I was there, just need a dish to go side-by-side my astra (sky) one
  <HazRPG> directhex: obviously ^,^
  <directhex> HazRPG, cyfra+ runs on HB6/8/9, and plenty of polish people in the UK tune that
  <MartijnVdS> popey: Someone projected the "horror footprint" (used by Polish channels to keep them inside Poland) onto the UK: http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/jalumsx/footprint.jpg
  <HazRPG> directhex: apparently BADR4 can be picked up in the UK: http://www.arabsat.com/pages/BADR4.aspx
  <HazRPG> can imagine it being weak though
  <gabrieluk> Hya.Is there any free software for email marketing for ubuntu?
  <directhex> HazRPG, you'll need a 1m dish
   * popey points gabrieluk at AlanBell who may know the answer
  <directhex> HazRPG, maybe 135cm
  <popey> gabrieluk: when you say "email marketing" do you mean "spam"?
  <gabrieluk> AlanBell,that one is for ya
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: kingofsat.net for channel lists per satellite, to see if a sat is visible: http://www.dishpointer.com/
  <HazRPG> directhex: so tempting to just a a MASSIVE one
  <directhex> HazRPG, a 2m dish would get you badr6
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if it's visible, and you're in the footprint, and have a large enough dish, you can receive :)
  <HazRPG> I think my dad got a 2m dish in saudi xD
  <gabrieluk> popey,yes ,kind of...i have a list of 5000 ,and i want to send them html email
  <MartijnVdS> I know people have 2m dishes in Turkey to get Dutch tv from Astra 1 and 3
  <popey> gabrieluk: :(
  <gabrieluk> is not really spam,cause they are rellated to the theme of the email,altough they dont know me
  <popey> did they ask for the mail?
  <gabrieluk> no
  <popey> thats spam then
  <gabrieluk> hehe,so i will be a spamer,if you want to label a simple email campaign ;P
  <popey> :(
  <gabrieluk> whats the problem then,this is normal,you have a product ,and you want to reach people
  <MartijnVdS> popey: we'll see :)
  <popey> it may be "normal" but that doesn't make it "right"
  <directhex> freedom 0
  <gabrieluk> this is done for thousand of companies man,don't make me look the bad guy....i'm looking for sponsorship for a free project
  <popey> freedom 0 doesn't force people to support duff practices
  <MartijnVdS> popey: good thing the new satellites won't launch until q4-2012 :P
  <popey> :) MartijnVdS
  <gabrieluk> popey,so u are saying you are the anti-spam guy?lol
  <popey> did I say that?
  <gabrieluk> well,it looks like
  <MartijnVdS> aren't most people anti-spam?
  <popey> clearly not
  <directhex> gabrieluk, i don't know of any email marketing software, but it's not something anyone here has much experience with. the problem you'll face, as always, is pushing enough SMTP traffic. you can't just run your own locall, since it'll get greylisted, and no relays like spammers
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i would say yes.
  <gabrieluk> well,if is a bad spam to millions of people yes...but if  is for a noble cause ,for few thousands..that are related with the topic somehow is different,isn't?
  <czajkowski> most unsolicited mail I get gets marked as junk and added to spam list
  <BigRedS> gabrieluk: not IMO
  <HazRPG> wish I knew how to mount a satellite dish :/
  <BigRedS> unsolicited 'charity' email generally just lowers my opinion of the charity
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're on the internet
  <directhex> HazRPG, with some bolts!
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are 100s of howtos :)
  <gabrieluk> kk,so here i am,i new spammer in the area...hope i wont be crucified :(
  <HazRPG> yeah, but it helps when the dish you buy comes with all the bits xD
  <BigRedS> But, even with permission to send mass mail out (from the recipients) It's *hard* to send it out with any gurantee that everyone will get it
  <HazRPG> the instructions I got, was NO WHERE NEAR close to what was in the box
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are forums full of people who can help ;)
  <HazRPG> and there were bits missing (I'm pretty sure of it) or rather bits for other things :s
  <directhex> gabrieluk, i don't think there's any spam software in the archive, so your best bet is just to google about
  <HazRPG> spam software?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: do you have a dish only? does it include an LNB?
  <gabrieluk> lol.spam software....i feel like a hacker already ,doing nasty things...nasty,nasty
  <popey> reminds me, I should put my quad-lnb up
  <HazRPG> I have 2 LNB's from Egypt, A receiver (also from Egypt) and a dish
  <HazRPG> isn't spam software called scripts? And usually it's the script kiddies that use them?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: find a satellite forum, there are loads of people who can help online
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not always
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I can see myself putting a massive hole in the wall and fudging it up somehow xD
  <BigRedS> It *is* possible to have a lot of people who have signed up to receive your email...
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: when that happens, call someone to repair it :)
  <HazRPG> BigRedS: yeah, but normally that'd be done in php - and called mailing lists :P
  <MartijnVdS> proper mailing lists are python anyway
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Good point. Think I need to get me some better drills and drill bits.
  <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: you mean launchpad? :-)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Really?
  <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: mailman
  <HazRPG> arghhh really need smokes now xD, brb shops
  <popey> \o/ mailman
  <HazRPG> popey: btw, I had the same troubles on laptop as you mentioned earlier
  <HazRPG> postal \o/
   * brobostigon scp's HazRPG some of his kentucky tobacco.
  <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: sounds more like flesh and blood :-P
  <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: pythons are flesh and blood :P
  <popey> doesnt the author of mailman work for canonical now?
  <popey> he wrote the mailing list bit of launchpad
  <gabrieluk> talking about canonical,have you guys ever had an experience with their paid support?any good?#
   * popey points to jpds 
  <popey> hey jpds, what's canonicals paid support like? :D
   * czajkowski hands popey a bun 
  <Nafallo> jpds is not sales :-)
  <popey> heh
  <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: and you are? :P
  <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: no
  <Nafallo> *sigh* what have I eaten to make my tummy feel so achy :-/
   * brobostigon should really not put his beer on his desk within arm reach.
  <czajkowski> Nafallo: too many crazy energy drinks?
  <Nafallo> czajkowski: almost none. I've gone over to water.
  <czajkowski> oh MY Jack Daniels!
  <Nafallo> one of the Tesco foods must have been bad.
   * Nafallo takes anti-ache pills
   * Nafallo idly wonders of he's with Alien...
  <suprengr> HazRPG: are you trying to contact / help Egypt?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/01/29/ot-the-return-of-the-chillies/
   * mattt needs help w/ his taxes -- any recommendations for a personal tax expert?  :)
  <HazRPG> suprengr: how do you mean?
  <HazRPG> suprengr: contacted mum using my skype credit
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh yeah, you were saying do the dish myself - I hate heights >_<
  <suprengr> HazRPG:  as in... if u are you trying to contact & help Egypt democracy? I hope this helps.  Good luck. try this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/560007/
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you have a good view of the horizon, you can mount a dish waist-high if you want to :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can do that as long as you can see the horizon from where the dish is
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: interesting
  <HazRPG> I think I should be able to from my garden where the sky dish is
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check that dishpointer site -- it'll tell you a minimum height
  <HazRPG> although that's high up, but might be able to do it :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: cool
  <HazRPG> need to get a better bracket to hold the dish with, since the one I got doesn't assemble right
  <HazRPG> i.e. doesn't assemble at all to the dish xD
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: call someone to do it for you :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that means spending lots of money xD
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not lots... if it's a good guy he should be able to do it in less than an hour
  <HazRPG> I guess
  <HazRPG> I'll look into it
  <HazRPG> need to fix the electric shower too :/
  <HazRPG> which has decided to stop producing enough hot water (more like warm) and pressure :/
  <HazRPG> shouldn't be too hard to do that though
  <HazRPG> I think
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I want one of these: http://www.wavefrontier.us/images/CPIC_Boise.gif
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: up to 16 satellites at once :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha nice
  <HazRPG> what are they called?
  <MartijnVdS> Wavefrontier T90
  <HazRPG> or is it a special dish that does that?
  <MartijnVdS> what kind of dish do you have?
  <HazRPG> errrmm... moment xD
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that's the whole thing, dish + extra reflector = T90
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (it's one set: the dish and reflector need to be calibrated)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: the one I've got is a fortec star I think
  <HazRPG> 90cm
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just a normal offset dish then :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed
  <HazRPG> but like I said, the thing doesn't assemble right :/
   * brobostigon noms on roast chicken and curried couscous. :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: well the back panel of the dish is there, and the arm that comes out of the front of the dish... however the stand, just seems like it came with the wrong parts and doesn't assemble right
  <HazRPG> the instructions given were completely wrong too
  <HazRPG> also fearful that the 90cm dish won't be adequate enough to pick up the satellites I want
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you want BADR6 right?
  <MartijnVdS> you'd need almost 2m of dish
  <HazRPG> well I have two LNB's so would be nice to get BADR6, and either hotbird or nilesat
  <HazRPG> think nilesat would be out of reach altogether though :(
   * HazRPG feels like a dumbass right now
  <MartijnVdS> also 2m
  <HazRPG> just tried to access nilesat.com.eg ... but well Egypt's internet is off xD
  <MartijnVdS> Some sat experts in the Netherlands say they can barely see Nilesat's carrier waves
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yeah, we should call it "gypt" now.. not so much E-
  <MartijnVdS> ;)
  <HazRPG> ;)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: did you ask someone or something?
  <HazRPG> "sat experts"
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, I'm on a Dutch sat forum, and it has a "Search" button :)
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: ha!
  <HazRPG> ah xD
  <HazRPG> essentially, if I can access Nile TV (pref the english one, cos they usually show subbed arabic films :) - and well my arabic isn't perfect), MBC1-4, MBC Action, Mazzika, Melody, *thinks* and other arabic channels ... me would be happy :)
   * brobostigon wonders if HazRPG can lend him his pipe, as brobostigon cant find his pipe. :(
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: find a UK sat forum, find the experts/real hobbyists :)
  <HazRPG> :P
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ooo! Nile TV International (the english one) is apparently on hotbird :D
  <HazRPG> don't seem to recognise any of these other ones T_T
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: found it , yay:)
  <HazRPG> http://www.lyngsat.com/hotbird.html
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: lyngsat and kingofsat.net are your friend :)
  <HazRPG> yeah lyngsat is my favourite site to view
   * brobostigon goes into existng cold shed, with his eeepc for abit.
  <MartijnVdS> it doesn't have the frequencies in enough detail sometimes
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: time to freeze LIKE A MAN
  <HazRPG> true
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, :(
  <HazRPG> I want that satellite you showed me earlier T_T
  <HazRPG> what was it called again?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the dish, you mean? Wavefrontier T90
  <HazRPG> yeah, thanks :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/dish-setup-single-sat-multi-sat-motorised-systems/87844-wave-frontier-t90-where-get.html
  <brobostigon> hopefully the eeepc will survive th cold, ?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: just run some cpu-intensive stuff on it ;)
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes,
   * brobostigon fires up blender
  <HazRPG> surely cold = good for PC's right?
  <MartijnVdS> 8-)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can overclock it better
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: moisture is more difficult,
  <HazRPG> true...
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: torcs ?
  <MartijnVdS> ?
  <HazRPG> but, but, but... water cooling xD
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: its an opengl car racing game.
  <brobostigon> damn, forgot m beer, :(
  <MartijnVdS> good idea! beer!
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Jones] Monitoring an Apple Airport Express/Extreme with Munin - http://www.tenshu.net/archives/2011/01/29/monitoring-an-apple-airport-expressextreme-with-munin/
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] OT  The return of the Chillies - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/01/29/ot-the-return-of-the-chillies/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ot-the-return-of-the-chillies
   * brobostigon goes back inside, into the warm.
  <AlanBell> oh, chilli planting season :)
  <brobostigon> igive up.
  <popey> brobostigon: hmm?
  <popey> it could be minecraft'o'clock
  <Pendulum> yay for warmth!
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: am I right in thinking that non of the american satellites can be picked up in europe?
  <Pendulum> ergh. every time someone mentions minecraft I consider buying it
  <brobostigon> popey: i survived the cold for alittle while like a man, but couldnt for too long.
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they're all below the horizon, yes
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some of the sats over the atlantic can be picked up though
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they carry NasaTV
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also ESA TV
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: NASA and ESA have TV channels that broadcast science programs/updates on missions/etc.
  <HazRPG> ah
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they're on Atlantic Bird 1
  <HazRPG> ooo cool
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html -- and again, the dishpointer.com site can tell you if a satellite is above or below the horizon from your position on the planet:)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh yeah, there's pretty cool coverage of Atlantic Bird 1 around most of the world it seems
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nah, not most of the world :)
  <HazRPG> http://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/125e.html <==
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there's this problem with the earth being spherical and the satellite being on one side of it :P
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no pacific/asian coverage, see :)
  <HazRPG> well yeah I know that ^^,
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the earth is semi-spherical.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: for most intents ant purposes, spherical is a good approximation :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I was trying to make a point
  <MartijnVdS> and*(
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: however it is accurate,
  <brobostigon> isnt'
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's sphere-ish.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: happy now? :P
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's not pancake-ish
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, :)
  <brobostigon> no.
  <brobostigon> spheroid i do believe is the word.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: stop picking nits :)
   * brobostigon shuts up.
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> hmm, interesting... if I move my Sky dish like half a cm to the right, I could get arabsat off it xD
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: except it's too small
  <HazRPG> well, yeah... xD
   * MartijnVdS listens to the Police - Walking on the Moon
   * brobostigon thinks MartijnVdS has a good thought.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: on vinyl :)
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: dark side.
  <brobostigon> :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I listened to some Zappa yesterday.. it's .. weird
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very, yes.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also, it was weird.. sides 1 and 4 were on one LP, 2 and 3 on the other
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm, very weird, yes.
  <MartijnVdS> apparently Blonde on Blonde has the same "layout"
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: did you see my image link yesterday?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://i.imgur.com/dFYri.jpg
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no, let me look.
  <brobostigon> lol
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the original 12" :)
  <popey> MartijnVdS: i know someone who would appreciate that
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh,
  <MartijnVdS> popey: you? :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: have you tried using DishPointer?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: once
  <HazRPG> the app I mean
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i like, that.
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: too expensive :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmm, this is weird, I told it (on the site) to list satellites I can receive and nilesat is on there ... but dish size is unknown... plus the footprint would lead me to believe that receiving it would be impossible
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: which one is nilesat?
  <MartijnVdS> ah 7W?
  <HazRPG> yeah
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "Outside of footprint" for me
  <HazRPG> same
  <MartijnVdS> and I'm closer to Egypt than all of the UK :)
  <HazRPG> but why would it show it on the list :S
  <MartijnVdS> because it's in the "visible arc"
  <MartijnVdS> it's above the horizon
  <MartijnVdS> it's just not pointed at you
  <HazRPG> makes sense
  <HazRPG> :(
  <HazRPG> although I think I saw that Nile TV Int. is on BADR :)
  <MartijnVdS> my appartment is east/west-oriented.. so I need 2 dishes if I want satellites from both sides :)
  <HazRPG> :P
  <MartijnVdS> I need a 3m dish for some satellites 8-)
  <HazRPG> same xD
  <MartijnVdS> ah wait C-band, that's old-style
  <HazRPG> what's the difference between C & K?
  <HazRPG> or is it Ku?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Ku = 12-18GHz
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: C-band is 3.4&5.8GHz
  <HazRPG> ah
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and the bandwidth on C-band is smaller, and the transmissions aren't always DVB
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some of those "satellite uplink trucks" use it afaik
  <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_truck
  <HazRPG> wow, if I want BADR 6 I need 120cm
  <MartijnVdS> that's not too moch
  <MartijnVdS> much
  <HazRPG> but BADR3/4 is fine on a 90cm - which I have
  <HazRPG> and hotbird is fine on 90 too
   * HazRPG wonders if we can get Hotbird & BADR off the same point of the dish
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not likely, if they're in different positions, you'll need multiple LNBs on a rail
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and maybe a "wide" dish
  <MartijnVdS> (with a focal area instead of a point)
  <HazRPG> ah, I do have multiple LNB's
  <HazRPG> I've got 2
  <MartijnVdS> ARGH!!
   * MartijnVdS shouts at compiz in natty
  <HazRPG> (4 if you include the 2 on my sky dish xD)
  <MartijnVdS> If I drag a window around, I don't want to maximize it thankyou
  <HazRPG> :P
  <MartijnVdS> also, I want windows to "bump into" each other.. and they don't
  <MartijnVdS> the plugin is active
  <HazRPG> weird :s
   * MartijnVdS blames the whole unity-is-compiz crack
  <HazRPG> :P
  <HazRPG> it will be
  <HazRPG> hmm, well the general direction of both directions seem to be roughly 25-45 degree angle differences
  <HazRPG> I'm sure if I pointed it inbetween the two and placed the LNBs right I might be able to get both
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not really.. your dish would beed to be "bent" in a way it probably isn't
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: unless you have a Visiosat or Wavefrontier dish :)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (the "Big bisat" line)
  <Neoti> hey guys just converted another windows user to ubuntu!!!
   * Neoti is happy !!!!
  <HazRPG> hurray :D
  <Neoti> !ubuntu
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
  <HazRPG> I've managed to get one of my friends to change too :P
  <brobostigon> Neoti: you have pointed said user to here for help ?
  <HazRPG> he's been wearing the ubuntu tee for about a year that I got him, but never actually installed it
  <HazRPG> (only ever running it off LiveCD)
  <Neoti> to both the forum and IRC #ubuntu-uk
  <HazRPG> but he's not got it install pure on his laptop :)
  <Neoti> and asked them to call me for help to ...
  <brobostigon> Neoti: thats good.
  <Neoti> yep.
  <Neoti> there usb wifi card did not work but i found a fix .... thats the only thing i had to fix everything else on there computer was picked up ... YEY!!!!!!!
  <brobostigon> yay Neoti :)
   * Neoti wobbling those windows!!!!!
  <brobostigon> lol
  <brobostigon> Neoti: you should show this person gnome-shell and eventually  gnome3. it will slow them awayeven more.
  <Neoti> he he
  <brobostigon> blow*
  <Neoti> one step at a time
  <brobostigon> yes, :)
  <Neoti> i just want them to use it for a night and get use to it etc...
  <brobostigon> good idea. ease.
  <Neoti> i have put xchat on there for them ... and they know how to use irc as they used it in windows
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :( I don't want to have 3 dishes mounted to my room/house
  <HazRPG> roof*
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: T90 \o/
  <HazRPG> ^^,
  <brobostigon> altohugh as i beleieve, ubuntu will never have true gnome3, as it will be optional as unity will be standerd. so, well.
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you do it right, it can even replace the freesat/sky dish :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what am I going to do with my old dish though :P
  <popey> brobostigon: define "true gnome3" ?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: slide down a hill in the snow 8-)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: put on ebay?
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha
  <brobostigon> popey: that doesnt exist yet, good point. however as gnome2 is now in debian without any specific changes from standerd gnome.
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ebay was a thought, however like I said the mounting pole doesn't assemble right :P
  <MartijnVdS> time for some sleep
  <popey> brobostigon: what makes you think ubuntu wont ship gnome3?
  <MartijnVdS> gubuntu 8-)
  <brobostigon> popey: seperatly, to install serpatly from unity.
  <popey> brobostigon: pretty sure ubuntu will ship gnome3 in the repo
  <popey> especially if debian does
  <brobostigon> popey: agreed, yes, inrepo. thats what i was trying to say,
  <popey> sorry, i dont see how that means "ubuntu will never have true gnome3"
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: night dude
  <popey> wouldn't be surprised if someone created a gnome3 (no unity) derivative of ubuntu
  <brobostigon> popey: thts a good thought,:)
  <HazRPG> you can get 1Gbps from Cat5e can't you - you don't need Cat6 right?
  <HazRPG> popey: I wouldn't either
  <popey> I'm not sure it's a _good_ idea
  <HazRPG> popey: which, using Cat5e for a 1Gbps backbone?
  <brobostigon> interesting though,
  <popey> no idea
   * brobostigon shuts up now. as he is tipsy.
  <popey> oh, ok then.
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: I think yes, but run length might be longer on cat6
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: only going to be fitting it around my house :P
  <brobostigon> i might do something i did a long time ago, start from alternate cd, cli only, and then build from there, as a challange, again. however, i would love to try unity, it is definatly looking interesting from what i have seen.
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: looking to buy a nice big roll of Cat5e or possibly Cat6
  <HazRPG> and finally have some tidy cables around here :P
  <AlanBell> and a crimp tool :)
  <HazRPG> already have one of those ;)
  <HazRPG> already got the wall boxes too
  <AlanBell> I once made about 200 patch cables
  <HazRPG> technically the wall boxes are in the right places so far, but the cables they're using are really old and were just off-cuts of other cables I had lying around
  <HazRPG> nothing is neatly tucked away though, and I'm wanting to put one of my other boxes in the living room and finally get my PS3 off wireless
   * HazRPG wonders if it'll be best to trunk them through the walls and under the floorboards or if it'll just be easier to tack them to the wall :/
  <penguin42> AlanBell: And then noticed that you could buy them online for less than the cost of the cables and connectors?
  <AlanBell> penguin42: this was a long time ago
  <AlanBell> I was just so pleased not to be running about with a 50ohm terminator on my keyring any more
  <penguin42> AlanBell: Haha, you know that's not a bad idea - I'm sure I still have one some where
  <AlanBell> it was a major innovation to have people cutting their own cables only able to too out their own computer
  <AlanBell> take out
  <markjones> AlanBell, the presentation I did went well, ianto went home because he was exhausted. There was a lot of interest in Ubuntu
  <brobostigon> markjones: thats really good to hear,, :)
  <AlanBell> great markjones
  <AlanBell> got photos?
  <markjones> It's been video'd
  <markjones> and had photos taken
  <brobostigon> markjones: can you link us up, please.
  <markjones> not up yet
  <markjones> give them a few days
  <brobostigon> markjones: could you give me a shout whenit is please.
  <markjones> yup
  <brobostigon> iechyd dda markjones :)
  <brobostigon> diolch,*
  <markjones> AlanBell, Kaia asks why you haven't spoken to her in ages
  <AlanBell> heh
  <brobostigon> shine on you crzy diamond, is too sad, :(
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: woah! I've had like 24 downloads of my extension so far!
  <HazRPG> that's awesome :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: wicked, :)
  <HazRPG> since I've only had it up for like a day
  <brobostigon> cool
  <HazRPG> although so far one guy has reviewed it with just one star :(
  <brobostigon> hmm.
  <brobostigon> ohwell.
  <HazRPG> I thought it worked well, guy didn't even leave a comment for it
  <HazRPG> I did say in the description that it was basically the same as the Google one, but with tweaks to get it to work for applications instead of just feeding it to a Google or other RSS feed account online
  <HazRPG> You'd think that if someone was going to rate something, they'd at least leave a comment to say why :/
  <HazRPG> I guess I'll see what happens in the next couple of days
  <brobostigon> yes. think positivily.
  <Neoti> Hi All, just created a system for XBMC i love the fact i can remote control it from my phone (Andriod) if there a online video plug in that includes some XXX lol..... like the online video plug in for Media portal .........
  <brobostigon> nos da,sleep well,me tired bunny.
   * Neoti Goodnight ubuntu people!!! Loves ubuntu too much!!!!
  #ubuntu-uk 2011-01-30
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Thinkpad T410 and Kubuntu - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4381
  <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.killmydaynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/KMDN-Daily-PicDump-No.64_90-550x550.jpg
  <Sysunix> Hi everyone, I've got a little problem with my packard bell laptop. my headphone doesn't work and they seem to not even be in alsamixer..
  <Sysunix> An idea ? :/
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: try the standard graphical mixer app
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: you should be able to use it to select the outout
  <Sysunix> there isn't "headphone" in the app
  <Sysunix> MartijnVdS*
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: in the "Hardware" tab, there's a dropdown box
  <MartijnVdS> what does it contain?
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: also, check the "Output" tab, it has a "Connector" dropdown to specify which one to use
  <MartijnVdS> brb, making breakfast
  <Sysunix> hum, there is : analog stereo duplex/output, digital stereo HDMI and digital stereo duplex
  <Sysunix> when i try to test the headphone, the sound come from the speakers
  <Sysunix> not from the headphone :/
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: and the "Output" tab?
  <Sysunix> i've got just one thing
  <Sysunix> "analog stereo"
  <MartijnVdS> and the other list is from the hardware tab?
  <Sysunix> yep
  <MartijnVdS> might be a bug then
  <MartijnVdS> !audio
  <lubotu3> If you're having problems with sound, click the Volume applet, then Sound Preferences, and check your Volume, Hardware, Input, and Output settings.  If that fails, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting - http://alsa.opensrc.org/DmixPlugin - For playing audio files,  see !players and !mp3.
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: try that troubleshooting link
  <Sysunix> i don't understand why i don't even have the headphone in alsamixer
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: because (part of) the sound chip is wired up in a way Ubuntu doesn't expect, I think
  <Sysunix> mh
  <Sysunix> my english isn't that good, it'll take me a while to read all this page ^^ Have you seen something which could help me in this page ? (the troubleshooting one)
  <MartijnVdS> hm that troubleshooting page is a bit .. bad
  <MartijnVdS> Sysunix: I can't help you any further at the moment, I don't know anything about this :)
  <MartijnVdS> !weekend
  <lubotu3> It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
  <Sysunix> ok MartijnVdS :) Thanks for tried
  <Neoti> hey all
  <HazRPG> howdy
  <MartijnVdS> \o HazRPG
  <Neoti> im looking for an XBMC online video thing line onlinevideos in mediaportal for apple trailers and xxx and stuff....
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
   * MartijnVdS designates today as "Prepare kitchen for disassembly-day"
  <HazRPG> Neoti: You mean like an addon/plugin?
  <Neoti> yes... also i download an adon and try and install zip from with in xbmc and it fails also when i try and extract the zip directly in to the xmbc fiolder it says i have no permission.... how do i get around that...
  <MartijnVdS> how did you install xbmc?
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Also, I'm guessing your using ubuntu, not windows, right?
  <Neoti> i followed the commands here... http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Installing_XBMC_for_Linux
  <Neoti> only the top four
  <Neoti> and its ubuntu 10.10
  <MartijnVdS> ok, so you have the xbmc package
  <Neoti> yep... i also plaid with my andriod and remote controlled it last night .. was cool...
  <Neoti> just need to install plug ins etc
  <AlanBell> morning all
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: mornin o/
  <HazRPG> Neoti: It really depends on the type of plugin you want to install dude apparently
  <HazRPG> apparently video plugins go in the /plugins/video/ folder, music in the /plguins/music/ folder, pictures in the /plugins/pictures/ folder and other programs (and launchers, etc) are in /plugins/programs/
  <HazRPG> they go into your home directory btw
  <Neoti> ok i want to install the XBMC Zone installer from xbmczone.. it says download it load up xbmc navigate to the dir and select the zip to install i do that and get installation failed
  <HazRPG> Neoti: So for example you had a video plugin you wanted to install, you would copy the directory in the zip file to ~/.xbmc/plugins/video/
  <HazRPG> Neoti: http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=HOW-TO_install_and_use_plugins_in_XBMC#Manually_installing_plugins
  <Neoti> also how do i change the address bar to show the address as i want to go to ~/.xbmc but see no way of navigating to it in the explorer, i can do in terminal but want explorer lol
  <HazRPG> you mean nautilus :P
  <Neoti> yes
  <HazRPG> erm, easiest way (since I don't like how you can't type into it anymore :/) is go to your home directory
  <HazRPG> press CTRL+H
  <HazRPG> that'll show hidden folders
  <HazRPG> and look for .xbmc
  <Neoti> ah.. thanks
  <HazRPG> you can even start typing that and it'll find it that way too
  <HazRPG> CTRL+H will hide those folders again btw
  <HazRPG> I think if I'm right, the XBMC Zone needs to go into /plugins/programs/
  <HazRPG> however you don't /need/ to install XBMC Zone, you can just download the plugins/addons directly from their site and unzip them into the plugins directories I told you about
  <HazRPG> from my understanding of it at least
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Hope that helps ya dude
  <Neoti> so where to i extract xbmc zone to ... ?
  <HazRPG> ~/.xbmc/plugins/programs/ I think
  <HazRPG> still looking around to make sure
  <HazRPG> they're website is pretty poor :/
  <HazRPG> their*
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Apparently there are 3 more commands you can do. If you want a selection of skins type: sudo apt-get install xbmc-skin-*
  <HazRPG> if you want more remotes: sudo apt-get install xbmc-eventclients-*
  <HazRPG> and if you want more scripts: sudo apt-get install xbmc-scripts
  <Neoti> also in ~/,xbmc there is no plugins dir theres addons but no plugins
  <HazRPG> hmm
  <HazRPG> try putting them in the addons folder then
  <HazRPG> if not, make a plugins folder
  <Neoti> i did that....
  <HazRPG> which?
  <HazRPG> both?
  <Neoti> there is no ~/,xbmc/plugins
  <HazRPG> Neoti: That's what I mean, try putting them in the addons folder - if it doesn't work putting them in there, then make a plugins folder inside ~/.xbmc/
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Btw, the guys @ #xbmc might be able to help you out more
  <Neoti> ok .... but i see now why people like windows morethen linux windows "install exe done" linux download no what ... lol ..... though i linux still but i see why a lot of people like windows...
  <HazRPG> or #xbmc-linux :)
  <HazRPG> Neoti: dude, don't think that way... xbmc plugins still need to be placed in the same folder on a windows machine
  <Neoti> on a qwindows machine its much much easiyer tho..... i would have been done by now ... lol ....
  <HazRPG> there just isn't an easy way to put plugins in for xbmc it seems - that's the developers fault, not linux ;)
  <HazRPG> Neoti: You say that, but I'm on a windows machine right now - and even I'm having trouble getting these plugins to work xD
  <HazRPG> gotta remember, even in the windows world, not everyone makes their packages easy for people to run
  <HazRPG> but still, even in the linux world, most people will make a .deb file so that its easy for you to install their stuff
  <HazRPG> in fact, some will even try to get their software added into repo's much like the Ubuntu Software Manager thing
  <HazRPG> don't you think the software manager is better than the windows one?
  <HazRPG> I mean the windows one will just show you what's installed so you can remove it
  <HazRPG> the ubuntu one, has software you can actually install!
  <Neoti> yeah program installation is fine in windows its install exe done, in linux its apt-get or .deb / the problem is that on windows its easyer to make changes then on linux IE the changes i am trying to do here etc....
  <HazRPG> again, like I said - not necessarily, it all boils down to the developer of the software
  <HazRPG> I mean XBMC doesn't have an easy way to install their plugins
  <Neoti> also i have just downloaded xbmc to windows and installed the zip file fine and it just took 3 mins ... so you can now see what i mean ...
  <HazRPG> really?
  <HazRPG> it failed on mine :(
  <Neoti> dont get me wrong ubuntu is great and i like it .... but on the configuration side its a little harder then windows... which is why *some* people just stick with windows...
  <Neoti> it would be easy to convert people to ubuntu if things like this where sorted out i guess ...
  <HazRPG> the problem doesn't lie that its easy or not, the problem is there are too many variants on linux available - each one working different to the next
  <HazRPG> if more people converted to ubuntu, then people might start making standard set of installers (.deb) files
  <HazRPG> think about it this way... reason it is so easy in windows, is because windows has dominated the application market for years
  <HazRPG> for a software developer to make linux apps, they have to make several different types of installers depending on what distro you use
  <HazRPG> with windows, windows accepts just one .exe
  <HazRPG> in linux, there is .rpm, .deb, etc
  <Neoti> i see your point i totally agree but in my example just now linux i tried for 30 mins got no where still have not got it working , windows working near enough straight away... etc....
  <HazRPG> I just wish the whole community of linux would adopt just one installer type, and stick with it for all distros of linux - then and only then, would it be easier
  <Neoti> yes i agree on the installation side one installer would be good
  <Neoti> and i do like the synaptic manager and the ubuntu one ... as compared to windows for example ...
  <Neoti> and some things on ubuntu work better then windows ....
  <HazRPG> I think as a community, it would be better if everyone agreed on one type, and all helped to develop it to be the standard linux way of installing
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Yeah I agree
  <Neoti> in ubuntu im kept up to date on all chat services i have on windows i have to either install loads of clients or use something like trillion and sigh up for yet another user name etc...
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Best thing I like about ubuntu, is the fact that ALL software automatically gets updates
  <Neoti> again this is good and bad ...
  <Neoti> but mostly good
  <HazRPG> Neoti: btw, in windows you can use things like pidgin instead of trillian - that's what I use ;)
  <AlanBell> would be good if android used .deb too
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Yeah, its mostly good - because instead of going to each website to download updates for a piece of software, they're all located under the update manager
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: would be harder for them to use .deb wouldn't it?
  <AlanBell> don't see why
  <HazRPG> aren't android apps essentially java applications?
   * HazRPG recalls seeing something like that in the SDK
  <AlanBell> yes, in a special not-java kind of way
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah, its weird :/
  <AlanBell> there are plenty of java applications packaged as .deb files
  <HazRPG> wonder why google decided to make a complete new (*sigh*) installer type :/
  <HazRPG> completely*
  <AlanBell> they rewrote the JVM to avoid licensing it from Sun, then Oracle bought Sun and are now sueing Google
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: that doesn't surprise me
  <AlanBell> android packages are basically .jar files, which are basically .zip files
  <HazRPG> indeed
  <HazRPG> you could argue that .deb is basically a .zip too though ;)
  <AlanBell> yup
  <HazRPG> btw, Neoti: XBMC Zone hasn't been updated since 2008
  <HazRPG> and XBMC has changed from using "plugins" to "addons" like you said
  <HazRPG> so best to do the below: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Unofficial_Add-on_Repositories
  <HazRPG> instead of using XBMC Zone
  <HazRPG> since the plugins aren't supported from Zone anymore
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: Do you work for canonical at all? Or do some projects for ubuntu?
  <HazRPG> just interested
  <AlanBell> I don't work for Canonical, but I do work with their corporate services team from time to time
  <HazRPG> was a reason to why I asked that, but can't remember now (was going to suggest something that the devs could maybe work on)
  <AlanBell> I am involved in several areas of the Ubuntu project now
  <HazRPG> cool
  <HazRPG> ah! yes, now I remember
  <HazRPG> chat
  <HazRPG> wouldn't it be a good idea if ubuntu was made in such a way, that people could login to irc - without having to know what irc was, or even how the "chat" thing worked
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they should know what to expect though
  <HazRPG> so that people can get logged into their local LoCo irc channel, or the standard #ubuntu channel
  <AlanBell> they kind of can
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nobody may be around to help
  <HazRPG> for help/support
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: if you launch xchat-gnome it autoconnects to freenode, tries to use your username as a nick and connects to #ubuntu-countrycode
  <AlanBell> which in our case connects to #ubuntu-GB, which redirects to here
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: Yeah I know, but if you don't install xchat - then you'd never know would you
  <AlanBell> agreed
  <AlanBell> getting xchat on the default install would be good in my opinion
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I agree, but that could be the disclaimer at the start though
  <AlanBell> or another IRC client with similar loco-connecting functionality
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: indeed
  <HazRPG> just from experience, I end up being the support guy that my fellow converts contact - and well I don't mind that, but well gets annoying after a while xD
  <HazRPG> I mean, there was one day - I got like 8 phone calls around roughly the same time because of an update xD
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: See, that could be a feature mentioned on the homepage of the ubuntu site about ubuntu. "Xchat client installed by default - this will connect to your local community, to help with some problems you may encounter. Please note: These are volunteers, and will try to help if they are available..." something along them lines and that the forum is the best place if they want more help, etc
  <AlanBell> hey, send them all here
  <AlanBell> with the new loco site http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/
  <AlanBell> we have http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/todays-chatter/
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: I've been trying to get coophi to join IRC for ages now, but he keeps saying "I'll get round to it"
  <AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/join-the-conversation/
  <MartijnVdS> time for tea!
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: Yeah, I am liking how beta.ubuntu-uk.org is coming along :)
  <HazRPG> still think the logo in the corner needs changed though
  <AlanBell> the map is almost working
  <HazRPG> (top-right podcast one)
  <AlanBell> yes, I only went mad with the colours so that the podcast folk would object and change it for me
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: good plan ;)
  <HazRPG> heck, I've been tempted to change it xD
  <HazRPG> hmm, I just thought - if all the LoCo's have a "join the conversation" type things on their site... well, maybe, just maybe, one of the dev's could make a - I don't know - a desktop widget / greeting / intro / thing...
  <HazRPG> (dev's of ubuntu I mean)
  <HazRPG> and in the intro, it could point them to their local LoCo depending on country setting, etc
  <HazRPG> that would be more useful
  <AlanBell> anyone can be a dev of ubuntu
  <HazRPG> heh, yeah I know :P
  <AlanBell> there are nice python IRC libraries
  <Neoti> well i sorted out my xbmc now ...
  <HazRPG> but my skills aren't exactly that great
  <Neoti> thanks for the help HazRPG
  <HazRPG> Neoti: No problem dude, I'm guess #xbmc-linux were more help though :P
  <Neoti> nope.
  <Neoti> well
  <Neoti> kinda
  <Neoti> the plugins page was the only help
  <Neoti> i now have the content i wanted apple trailers and game trailers etc .... so im good ...
  <HazRPG> :)
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Personally, I use Boxee - which is a variant of XBMC
  <HazRPG> and, well so much easier to use then XBMC
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Worth checking out: http://www.boxee.tv/
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: mad corner podcast thing has been removed until the launch of Season 4
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: woot!
  <HazRPG> guessing you have magic ninja ftp access then :OP
  <HazRPG> :P*
  <AlanBell> magic ninja wordpress access
  <HazRPG> oh, really this is made with wordpress :o
   * HazRPG impressed
  <AlanBell> yeah
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: any reason why there's a nasty purple box around the photo though?
  <Neoti> you'll have to make a video for youtube of it ...
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Boxee you mean?
  <HazRPG> there's a video on their site if I recall
  <AlanBell> the tasteful aubergine border you mean?
  <Neoti> i will look at it later... for now i have moved from GBpvr to MediaPortal to xbmc... im just a media center slut....!!!!! lol
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah, it looks wrong somehow
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: first time I saw it about a week or so ago... I thought it was clickable
  <HazRPG> Neoti: If I recall I recommended Boxee to you when others were shouting XBMC xD
  <Neoti> i know but i looked at xbmc first and thought "o shiny and pritty" and sorta stuck with it ... sorry Haz.... i will look now ...
   * Neoti Thinks he offended HazRPG..... About to fix that tho!!! SORRY!!!!!
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Nah dude, don't be sorry - we're a community dude :) we'll all have our own opinions as to what works best for us
  <markjones> Where I was this weekend: http://bit.ly/dEXMnm
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Personally I like Boxee, because they're getting sponsors from things lik Vudu movies, NetFlix, etc (and yes although those are american brands, it won't be long before the BBC and stuff try to get involved)
  <HazRPG> Neoti: I recall seeing somewhere before boxee lauched (back in alpha) their promise to keep boxee free and open
  <HazRPG> Neoti: They'll be making their money from their sponsors, their boxes that they've made, etc... so as a whole I can see them striving to better goals then XMBC - but that's just me
  <HazRPG> plus since it's the same base, plugins for either work fine
  <HazRPG> markjones: why does this guy look familiar to me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryn_s/5399282735/in/set-72157625934186738/
  <Neoti> in xbmc is there away to use my wintv 3000 card by huppage?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: he's you, you see him every day in the mirror?
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Not quite :P
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just guessing :)
  <HazRPG> hmm, does ubuntu actually have an official page on facebook?
  <HazRPG> with the whole boom of all things going social media :/
  <HazRPG> I'm sure I have a friend that looks like him
  <HazRPG> omg wait... he looks like that kid from superbad xD
  <AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/ubuntulinux
  <AlanBell> 326,220 people like this
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah I've noticed that, but it could just be fan-based
  <MartijnVdS> argh
  <MartijnVdS> because one type of Intel wlan chip has issues with 802.11n they've disabled it on ALL iwlagn devices?
   * MartijnVdS pokes around in /etc/modprobe.d/
  <HazRPG> heh, wow 2 of my mates "liked" that page ^^,
  <HazRPG> one of them I met here on this channel, and one irl
  <AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2205498133
  <AlanBell> I think that one may be more official or something
  <AlanBell> I don't know the difference between a group and a page really
  <HazRPG> both can be made by anyone (much like a wiki)
  <HazRPG> a page however, can be automatically made by simply putting "keyword" in your "info" section of your profile
  <HazRPG> a group, has to actually be made
  <MartijnVdS> one of those also contains wikipedia content
  <MartijnVdS> by default
  <MartijnVdS>         tx bitrate: 162.0 MBit/s MCS 12 40Mhz
  <MartijnVdS> \o/
  <HazRPG> with groups, you've got discussions, etc so its more like making a community (much like google groups, etc), and a page, is just for updates
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I've disabled the disabling of 802.11n in the iwlagn driver
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: /etc/modprobe.d/intel-5300-iwlagn-disable11n.conf
  <MartijnVdS> I have a 6300, but it still triggered and disabled the N bit
  <MartijnVdS> which is unfortunate, because N works fine
   * Neoti getting coffee!
  <HazRPG> heh, nice :)
  <MartijnVdS> now all I need is N and ipv6 on my ps3 and I'm completely in the 21th century ;)
  <MartijnVdS> st
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I wish I could get N for my PS3 too, and my router :/
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: My ISP gave me a Fritz!Box 7340.. it has native ipv6-over-dsl support, and wifi-n :)
  <HazRPG> I wish I'd studied engineering, and electronics at school
  <MartijnVdS> no concurrent 2/5GHz though :(
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what did you study?
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: The only subjects they had available :/
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: My parents moved to saudi for work
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so.. you have a BA in knitting? :P
  <HazRPG> so for my GCSE's I had to take English, Computing, Bio, Chem, Phys, then either History, French or Geography
  <HazRPG> Math was a must too
   * HazRPG tries to remember other subjects
  <HazRPG> arabic was a must, but well my arabic was poor for reading/writing so I got opt-ed out for it
  <HazRPG> if the example was spoken - I would have been able to pass with flying colours
  <HazRPG> exam* not example xD
  <HazRPG> I took English Lit. but we didn't have teachers for it - but thankfully we had a british teacher, who said she'd teach me it after school hours and managed to get a classroom organised with the principle
  <HazRPG> think there was 3 of us in total that took it
  <HazRPG> erm... think that was it
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I've got a HND in Computing?
  <HazRPG> shame though, cos I taught everything I know myself - didn't actually learn anything at college
  <HazRPG> I mean I wrote my first piece of HTML when I was 13
   * MartijnVdS just did Dutch, English, Math [option B, the harder one :)], Phys, Chem, History, and a few "non-exam" subjects.. then tried studying CS for a year and dropped out because Linux was too much fun :P
  <HazRPG> (hurray for web crawler apps back in the 90's)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Hotbot!
  <HazRPG> ?
  <HazRPG> oh heh lol
  <MartijnVdS> that was one of the early search engines
  <MartijnVdS> with altavista, yahoo, etc.
  <HazRPG> nah, I was old-school - didn't know about search engines until much later on
  <HazRPG> I used an actual web crawler app to sprawl through the net
  <HazRPG> it was called Bee something or other
  <HazRPG> haha no way
  <HazRPG> www.pagetutor.com <== still exists!
  <HazRPG> that was the site that taught me my basics xD
  <MartijnVdS> my dad taught me GW-BASIC when I was 9 or 10
  <MartijnVdS> so I've been programming since then :)
  <HazRPG> looks like it hasn't changed much either
  <HazRPG> yeah I crawled for "How to make a computer program" at the same time as "How to make a website"
  <HazRPG> so I wrote my first HTML and C++ HelloWorld app back when I was 13
  <HazRPG> I hated computing at school though, because we had to make a VB6 app for a database - when all I wanted to do was C++ coding
  <HazRPG> even when I went to college, they pushed VB6 down our throats
  <HazRPG> :/
  <HazRPG> was so glad my HND involved C++ and Java
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Was that for the ZX?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, DOS :)
  <HazRPG> haha old-school
  <HazRPG> did some Basic myself at one point
  <HazRPG> BlitzBasic <== that's the one
  <HazRPG> made a really really simple game in blitzbasic
  <markjones> HazRPG, he is @nwdls on twitter, Rhodri ap Dyfrig is his real name.
  <markjones> and.. yeah, i dunno :P
  <HazRPG> markjones: yeah, he looks like this kid: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2395586/
  <markjones> aah, xD
  <HazRPG> but a European version of him
  <HazRPG> smile/glasses look similar though
  <HazRPG> markjones: what was the event about dude?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: a European version? You mean half his weight? :P
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that... and the fact that he's paler - with a more european facial structure
  <HazRPG> eye type, hair, facial expressions, etc
  <HazRPG> makes him look sort of british / sort of european
  <HazRPG> where as the guy from superbad, you can tell he's american
  <markjones> HazRPG, It was an event about technology and the Welsh Language, there were talks on everything from Wordpress to Ubuntu
  <HazRPG> markjones: nice :)
  <HazRPG> markjones: were was it hosted?
  <HazRPG> I'm tempted to get my friends to go to Ucubed - looks like it could be fun
  <markjones> HazRPG, it was hosted in Wales at Aberystwyth University, we were using the same building the BBC has a newsroom and studio in :D
  <HazRPG> haha nice
  <markjones> yeah. t'was ace
  <AlanBell> cloud computing meets parenting /o\
  <HazRPG> xD
  <HazRPG> anyone going to Ucubed btw?
  <AlanBell> lots of tears due to entering a club penguin password with caps lock on too many times and now the account is locked for an hour
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: oops >_<
  <HazRPG> this guy is dumb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsW-eXhMZzc
  <AlanBell> heh, he is totally not getting that it is locked out on my computer as well as the children's one
  <HazRPG> bet he didn't realise that the xbox360 games have a video section on them
  <HazRPG> if he had a DreamCast in the past, he'd have known the same thing - because you get a message when you put a DreamCast game into a stereo saying "this is a DreamCast game..."
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: ^^,
   * Neoti Looking at Mythbuntu and Boxee... need a media center that supports My TV Capture card... or might just buy a newone... any suggestions for one that supported under ubuntu?
  <MartijnVdS> the mythbuntu wiki has lists
  <MartijnVdS> (of supported cards)
  <bigcalm> I have a dual head digital card in my mythtv box. But I haven't used that box for about 2 years. Need to sell it really
  <Neoti> whats the card ?
  <dutchie> bigcalm: ooh, i might be tempted to take that off you
  <MartijnVdS> I have a sat card in my desktop
  <MartijnVdS> don't really use it that much tbh
  <bigcalm> Can't remember :)
  <bigcalm> dutchie: http://www.lazygnome.net/diary/592
  <bigcalm> Very old blog entry, doesn't say much about it, but that's the case
  <dutchie> looks quite shiny
  <HazRPG> Neoti: #boxee <==
  <bigcalm> It's a very quiet case. Silicon buffers on the mounts for the harddrives and DVD drive
  <Neoti> im thereHaxRPG
  <bigcalm> 2 x 120mm fans
  <bigcalm> (I think)
  <Neoti> should be HazRPG
  <bigcalm> 2gb ram (max that the mobo will take)
  <Neoti> im also just reading the link from lazygnome ...
  <Neoti> seems good ...
  <Neoti> i want a list of every bit of hardware supported by ubuntu ... does such a list exsist !???? i wander...
  <bigcalm> Neoti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/
  <Gringo> Hey guys can i use utorrent with ubuntu?
  <MartijnVdS> !torrent
  <lubotu3> Torrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html - See also !P2P
  <Neoti> Doh , my wintv PVR 3000 is not supported https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsMultimediaHauppauge DOH DOH DOH... !!!!!!!
  <bigcalm> It might be at a later date
  <Darael> Neoti: The hardware support doesn't list everything that'll work, just the ones that have been tested.  If it's not mentioned, give it a go?
  <HazRPG> Gringo: nope, there is a torrent program already built in
  <HazRPG> as MartijnVdS just pointed out :P
  <Darael> Listing absolutely everything that works would presumably require having a list of every single model of each component that exists, which doesn't seem likely somehow...
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Best way is to test it out
  <HazRPG> Gringo: How's things going anyways? With your whole switching to ubuntu.
  <HazRPG> going good so far?
  <bigcalm> Time to go walking :)
  <Darael> Neoti: Also bear in mind that the only thing listed on that page as not working hasn't been tested since 2005 - there's a good chance it's been made to work in the intervening six years.  Try it, maybe it'll work.
  <Neoti> ok im selling Hauppauge WinTV HVR-3000 - DVB-T/DVB-S it includes all cables and the remote, plus the remote has never been used.
  <HazRPG> !kernel
  <lubotu3> The core of the Ubuntu Operating System is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, but if you're convinced you do, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile - See also: /msg ubottu stages
  <christhecoolboy> hey AlanBell :)
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Btw, support for that card was added in kernel 2.6.28-rc1
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: o/
  <HazRPG> Neoti: The version of the kernel in Ubuntu 10.10 is 2.6.35 - so your TV card should work out of the box :)
  <christhecoolboy> so what can I do?
  <christhecoolboy> I cant even install it
  <christhecoolboy> its static...
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: hi \o
  <Neoti> oh ... ok ... did not know that ...
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: do you have an external monitor to plug in?
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Here's for reference: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-3000
  <christhecoolboy> Not where I am at the moment
  <HazRPG> Neoti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMeerkat/TechnicalOverview#Linux kernel 2.6.35
  <Neoti> i guess im still a newb
  <christhecoolboy> isnt there a command
  <christhecoolboy> that I can put
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Thing to remember is that the kernel controls everything, so drivers are usually included with the kernel
  <Neoti> ah so if i plug this card in it will get picked up? also what is a good program for viewing the stations ?
  <Neoti> in ubuntu ....
  <HazRPG> Window does the same thing (sorta), except microsoft don't tend to keep on-top of drivers for ALL devices like linux tries to
  <AlanBell> I have a black prototype webbook that is broken and has no hdd, I used to have a white one which was more functional but I can't find it right now
  <HazRPG> Neoti: Not sure, my TV card I use to have got washed away in the floods in 2005... and I didn't start using linux until 2006
  <HazRPG> Neoti: My guess would be XBMC, Boxee, MythTV, etc
  <christhecoolboy> ;'(
  <AlanBell> ah, there it is
  <HazRPG> what's the problem exactly christhecoolboy?
  <christhecoolboy> when I try to install
  <christhecoolboy> its all static
  <christhecoolboy> and I cant see a lot
  <christhecoolboy> just static
  <HazRPG> you mean when you try to install ubuntu?
  <christhecoolboy> yeah
  <christhecoolboy> when I start the CD
  <christhecoolboy> its fine
  <christhecoolboy> then as soon as the screen loads
  <christhecoolboy> static
  <HazRPG> ohhh
  <AlanBell> it is a crappy chipset
  <HazRPG> heh, I thought you meant it would only let you put a static IP address
  <AlanBell> openchrome drivers
  <christhecoolboy> well, my sister wanted a netbook
  <christhecoolboy> and that was only Â£30
  <HazRPG> hmm, what netbook we talking about here?
  <AlanBell> yay, power supply and it boots
  <christhecoolboy> elonex webbook
  <AlanBell> crappy company too
  <AlanBell> totally screwed us over
  <christhecoolboy> my mum bought it for my sis
  <christhecoolboy> cause it was cheap
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: what have you tried so far?
  <christhecoolboy> and my sis is 7
  <christhecoolboy> so its a good first netbook
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: the last article I wrote was 9.10
  <AlanBell> but I think I got 10.04 up on it
  <HazRPG> what version of ubuntu are you using?
  <christhecoolboy> me?
  <AlanBell> http://webbookblog.com/ubuntu-9-10-the-karmic-koala/
  <HazRPG> heh, was just about to say I saw a forum somewhere that they were running 8.xx
  <christhecoolboy> isnt there a command I can put it before it installs
  <christhecoolboy> and how do I do it?
  <brobostigon> morning all.
  <christhecoolboy> morning brobostigon
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: morning \o
  <AlanBell> you could try the alternate CD
  <AlanBell> this webbook isn't seeing it's hdd at the moment
  <brobostigon> morning HazRPG and christhecoolboy :)
  <HazRPG> oh wait, so the LiveCD is fine - but once its install it messes up?
  <brobostigon> morning AlanBell :)
  <christhecoolboy> no the Live CD is messed up too
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: it is a *very* screwed up machine, the EDI information that the bios provides is a lie
  <HazRPG> ouch!
  <AlanBell> the control keys were fitted the wrong way round too, just shows the quality
  <HazRPG> :/
  <AlanBell> ah, it has no HDD, that will be why the BIOS isn't seeing it :)
  <HazRPG> xD
  <daubers> Morning
  <HazRPG> daubers: morning \o
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: wait, do you have his netbook on you?
   * daubers has just been and got more flight cases from maplins as they're #15 off at the moment
  <AlanBell> you have to love the little hole in the case where the webcam would be if they paid to fit one
  <christhecoolboy> HazRPG, he has the same netbook
  <HazRPG> ah
  <AlanBell> and the bluetooth symbol on the keyboard is a nice touch. Would have been nicer if they had fitted a bluetooth chip.
  <christhecoolboy> AlanBell, isnt there a way of putting in extra commands before the disc loads...
  <HazRPG> xD
  <HazRPG> you can in the alt-version of the disc I think
  <christhecoolboy> HazRPG, huh?
  <HazRPG> there's two types of ubuntu discs
  <HazRPG> desktop Live CD
  <HazRPG> and desktop Alternative Install CD
  <christhecoolboy> ok
  <christhecoolboy> I got a thing up
  <christhecoolboy> boot options
  <HazRPG> AlanBell is properly going to be the best man to help you out since he has the hardware :)
  <christhecoolboy> what is nomodeset
  <jacobw> morning
  <HazRPG> jacobw: mornin \o
   * AlanBell has a booted webbook
  <AlanBell> running 10.04
  <christhecoolboy> what do I do on "Other Options"
  <christhecoolboy> to get it to work with graphics
  <AlanBell> 1024x600 resolution, no screen corruption
  <christhecoolboy> how?
  <christhecoolboy> I am a bit of a noob
  <AlanBell> I used the technique of slapping in random hdds from my desk drawer until the bios recognised one and it booted
  <christhecoolboy> boot options blah blah... "quiet splash --"
  <christhecoolboy> what do I put after all of the "blah blahs"
  <AlanBell> http://pastebin.com/qeNFfNbe
  <AlanBell> that is the xorg.conf that works
  <AlanBell> it won't autodetect the graphics and get it right
  <christhecoolboy> how do I put that on the Boot Options?
  <AlanBell> and I don't think you can edit the xorg.conf of a live CD before it boots
  <AlanBell> I think you need to find a vga monitor
  <christhecoolboy> I dont have one :(
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: from what I can... yeah what AlanBell said ^^,
  <AlanBell> only temporary
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: what are you using right now?
  <christhecoolboy> All my computers have built in screens
  <AlanBell> just borrow one somewhere, do the install and download that xorg.conf
  <christhecoolboy> I have 1 imac
  <christhecoolboy> 1 touch screen PC
  <christhecoolboy> and 2 laptops
  <HazRPG> ouch
  <HazRPG> got a friend you can borrow one from?
  <christhecoolboy> nope
  <MartijnVdS> No friends, awww
  <AlanBell> you *might* be able to do a text mode install from the alternate CD, and boot to a command line and edit the xorg.conf
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: not in London next week are you?
  <christhecoolboy> nope
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: I live on the border of england/scotland if your near there
  <AlanBell> try a library/school/office or something
  <christhecoolboy> they wont let you mess with the monitors :(
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: you'd be surprised, if you ask
  <christhecoolboy> hmmmmm...
  <christhecoolboy> I wonder...
  <christhecoolboy> does my TV have VGA?
  <AlanBell> flat panel TV with vga input
  <HazRPG> if you go into a secondary school and see if the techies will help you get your netbook plugged into a monitor - I'm sure they will
  <HazRPG> or even previous college you use to go to, etc
  <AlanBell> I am going to upgrade this one to 10.10 and see what happens
  <MartijnVdS> VGA input on a flat-panel TV?
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah some do
  <christhecoolboy> MartijnVdS, most HD TV's do
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: My friend has a samsung that does, and so does my sister
  <MartijnVdS> My old TV had one
  <MartijnVdS> but my new one only has HDMI
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Really depends on the manufacturer really and model
  <MartijnVdS> sure
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: you'll need a VGA cable to be able to hook it up though
  <christhecoolboy> I *might* have one somewhere
  <jacobw> does anyone know of a guide to getting banshee set up with the ubuntu one music store? i'm having trouble with previously downloaded tracks
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: try "re-load library" (from the Tools menu)
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: I just thought, on the LiveCD - one would guess it still boots everything up even though the screen is screwy - think you'd be able to press CTRL+ALT+F1?
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: good suggestion, I seem to recall that not working though
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah :/
  <AlanBell> in fact on this one with working X I have broken consoles
  <HazRPG> :(
   * MartijnVdS had to unbreak X on natty this morning
  <MartijnVdS> it was crashing on some evdev stuff related to the USB HID devices that my bluetooth dongle presents to the world
  <MartijnVdS> as in real SEGVs
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: random
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: maybe it's the "16 buttons" bit
  <HazRPG> possibly
  <HazRPG> I think its time for some coffee
  <HazRPG> looks like coffee time to me
  <MartijnVdS> nah
  <MartijnVdS> tea
  <MartijnVdS> it's time for tea.
  <HazRPG> as in dinner?
  <HazRPG> or as in tea the drink?
  <MartijnVdS> tea the drink :)
   * HazRPG always gets annoyed when people call dinner "tea"
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: looking at http://www.openchrome.org/trac/wiki/About it seems that there might be a possibility that the 3d hardware could work again one day
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: You seem like the kind of guy that would know, is it hard to make your own OEM discs for ubuntu?
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: oem-config-remaster - Remaster a CD with additional oem-config functionality
  <HazRPG> with settings, etc that I would normally do
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that's a package :)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Sweet :)
  <AlanBell> the webbook uses oem-config-prepare
  <AlanBell> that is/was an option on the alternate CD
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: I was just thinking, because it might be an idea for christhecoolboy to make a CD that has the Xconf changes he needs - that way he won't have to worry about it in future
   * HazRPG wonders why he went into the kitchen again
  <domjohnson> Can fsck cause data loss?
  <HazRPG> oh yeah! coffee!
  <AlanBell> HazRPG: we actually made bootable SD cards that dropped a disk image onto the hdd for restores
  <AlanBell> never explored custom CDs really as there is no optical drive
  <domjohnson> Why might a USB External HDD not show up in lsusb or nautilus?
  <domjohnson> Or Gparted?
  <brobostigon> domjohnson: is it powered  ?
  <domjohnson> Yes
  <brobostigon> is itplugged in inthat case?
  <domjohnson> And it looks like its plugged in - the LED is flashing
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <brobostigon> domjohnson: how about in dmesg ?
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: oh really?
  <domjohnson> Ok, its recognised now
  <domjohnson> But
  <domjohnson> it says 'an operation is already pending'
   * HazRPG tempted to install proxmox on my server
  <christhecoolboy> Minecraft should be called Digdugcraft! ROFL
  <HazRPG> I still haven't played minecraft >_<
  <HazRPG> do you actually have to pay for minecraft?
  <christhecoolboy> HazRPG, yes
  <christhecoolboy> about Â£10
  <christhecoolboy> its cheaper than normal video games
  <christhecoolboy> normal games are like Â£39.99
  <HazRPG> I think they should put minecraft on steam :P
  <christhecoolboy> does that mean that I can have a cup of tea?
  <HazRPG> yeah I normally buy indie games, more fun, cheaper :)
  <domjohnson> Got it working now :)
  <domjohnson> Cheers brobostigon - unplugged it and plugged it back in (the power), rebooted, and it worked.
   * HazRPG can't believe I just bought minecraft T_T
  <MartijnVdS> "Have you tried turning it off and back on again" 8-)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's been nice knowing you 8-)
  <HazRPG> ^^<
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good luck with the addiction
  <HazRPG> ^^,
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have smoking for that ^^,
  <HazRPG> Rush is more addictive anyway
  <HazRPG> (game on steam)
  <HazRPG> ok this game laggggs like crazy >_<
  <jonsaint> john7274..
  <czajkowski> Aloha
  <Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
  <MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
  <AlanBell> o/
  <czajkowski> hows folks
  <HazRPG> how do you build anything :S
  <HazRPG> \o hey
  <markjones> HazRPG, you have to hit stuff to get bricks
  <HazRPG> markjones: yeah I got that bit :P
  <HazRPG> got loads of stuff so far
  <markjones> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Crafting
  <markjones> make a Cratg
  <Pendulum> czajkowski: how's you?
  <markjones> *Crafting table ASAP
  <czajkowski> Pendulum: good had yummy breakfast
  <Pendulum> :)
  <markjones> HazRPG, prod me in about 5 hours if you want any more help
  <HazRPG> its getting dark... doesn't that mean bad things xD
  <HazRPG> I managed to crash the game somehow xD
  <HazRPG> markjones: can't get the crafting table to work :/
  <HazRPG> ah ha! nvm
  <Myrtti> booyah.
  <Myrtti> Finland... snowy
  <Thingymebob> The day the routers died! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y36fG2Oba0 hilarous
  <AlanBell> awesome
  <HazRPG> I died :(
  <HazRPG> wow, popey has spent a lot of hours on this game hasn't he T_T
  <HazRPG> just logged in on his server
  <Nafallo> Thingymebob: \o/
  <HazRPG> I don't think I /get/ this game
   * HazRPG 's mind boggles
  <HazRPG> I understand second life though :/ which is weird
  <directhex> it's like second life, but you punch trees, and it doesn't use Mono
  <HazRPG> directhex: yeah I know, but I can understand 3D modelling...
  <directhex> HazRPG, well, think of it more like voxel modelling :p
  <HazRPG> anything you need, you create - which I guess is similar here, except you have to /find/ the materials you want to use lol
  <HazRPG> which is a pain to me xD
  <directhex> HazRPG, punch more trees
  <christhecoolboy> hey AlanBell?
  <AlanBell> o/
  <christhecoolboy> its installed
  <christhecoolboy> where do I put that file you sent me?
  <AlanBell> awesome
  <christhecoolboy> ^^
  <AlanBell> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
  <HazRPG> directhex: that's all well and good, but don't I need to make doors, torches, etc?
  <directhex> HazRPG, from wood, primarily. which is sourced from tree punching
  <HazRPG> torches need coal :/
  <christhecoolboy> ok
   * christhecoolboy has a problem
  <HazRPG> and I can't find any blocks to get that from :/
  <christhecoolboy> :(
  <directhex> HazRPG, dig down!
  <christhecoolboy> I cant see text
  <christhecoolboy> its like || box | ||
   * HazRPG pushes minecraft to one side before I get really hooked
  <HazRPG> I'll come back to it later xD
  <christhecoolboy> and unity keeps on crashing?
  <christhecoolboy> :(
  <AlanBell> can you get to a terminal christhecoolboy?
  <AlanBell> my upgrade has another hour or so to go
  <christhecoolboy> no
   * HazRPG omg I forgot I had chumbawamba
  <christhecoolboy> when I move the mouse
  <christhecoolboy> to the unity
  <christhecoolboy> it crashes
  <AlanBell> oh :(
  <MartijnVdS> sounds like unity
  <AlanBell> when you log on do you have an option to go to the classic desktop or something like that?
  <christhecoolboy> no
  <christhecoolboy> it auto logs in
  <AlanBell> can you log out?
  <christhecoolboy> erm...
   * christhecoolboy has terminal
  <HazRPG> christhecoolboy: are you using 11.04?
  <AlanBell> yay
  <christhecoolboy> no
  <christhecoolboy> 10.10
  <christhecoolboy> netbook
  <HazRPG> ah
  <HazRPG> was wondering how you had unity xD
  <christhecoolboy> xorg.conf is empty?
  <christhecoolboy> In terminal
  <christhecoolboy> I wrote 'sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf'
  <christhecoolboy> without the 's
  <AlanBell> wget -O /etc/X11/xorg.conf http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=qeNFfNbe
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: do that ^^
  <christhecoolboy> ok
  <AlanBell> it will download the xorg.conf and put it in the right place
  <AlanBell> actually stick sudo in front of it
  <AlanBell> sudo wget -O /etc/X11/xorg.conf http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=qeNFfNbe
  <HazRPG> hmm, does anyone know what happened to zabadda?
  <brobostigon> gksudo gedit     -    sudo nano  .only sudo for cli apps, and gksudo for gui apps, othertwise breakage possible.
  <selinuxium> morning!
  <HazRPG> never see him in irc anymore
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh yeah, whatever happened to that adrino card you were messing around with about 6-12months ago?
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: you were having time issues if I recall
  <christhecoolboy> wget: invalid option -- '0'
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: different tactic something much simpler, i simplief the plan from then, i now have it picking up signals from the various car hydraulic components, and out putting the right singnalbased onswitch and potentiometer position.
  <AlanBell> capital O
  <AlanBell> oOoO
  <christhecoolboy> saved
  <christhecoolboy> I thought it was zero
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah cool
  <AlanBell> short for Output file
  <christhecoolboy> now what about unity?
  <christhecoolboy> its crashing
  <christhecoolboy> also, is that done now?
  <selinuxium> Hi guys, would anyone know how to record a stream from ustream? I have a gig tonight that they are streaming..
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: however with the plans my dad gave me a few days ago, we will need something that can multithread and has more program memory and ram.
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: ok, reboot and cross fingers,toes and other stuff and for good measure hold a black cat under a ladder
  <christhecoolboy> ok
  <christhecoolboy> xD
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: or connect several controllers togather.
  <christhecoolboy> it says about a kernal panic?
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: hmmm...
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: bother
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: anf i am doing my best to keep everything as OSS as possible.
  <christhecoolboy> what do I do? ;'(
  <christhecoolboy> oooooh
  <christhecoolboy> it works
  <christhecoolboy> now we need to fix problem too
  <christhecoolboy> the weird thing
  <christhecoolboy> its not showing text
  <christhecoolboy> on the top
  <christhecoolboy> screen
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
  <HazRPG> I'm sure you could get several adrino's together
   * HazRPG trying to remember what the project was for exactly...
  <HazRPG> I know it was car related xD
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: however as it is, i am sure we will be able to find an arduino with enough memory.
  <HazRPG> :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i did say, :)
  <brobostigon> maybe.
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: it started working?
  <christhecoolboy> yup
  <christhecoolboy> now...
  <christhecoolboy> when I try desktop version
  <AlanBell> nice
  <christhecoolboy> its all fine
  <christhecoolboy> how do I fix it?
  <AlanBell> so unity is broken
  <AlanBell> I don't think that is going to work
  <AlanBell> mutter probably uses some accelleration stuff that isn't available in openchrome
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: 1KB, is going to be making it tight inprogram memory.
  <christhecoolboy> any fixes?
  <AlanBell> after I have upgraded this one to 10.10 I will probably upgrade again to the development version 11.04
  <AlanBell> christhecoolboy: probably not
  <christhecoolboy> oh :(
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm sure it'll be fine
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: besides, if you release it as an actual piece of hardware - they'll be able to make one with bigger memory
  <HazRPG> hey guys, having a mild problem with bootup of ubuntu 10.10
  <HazRPG> seems that sometimes it'll boot and sometimes it won't
  <HazRPG> it'll just freeze at the terminal
  <HazRPG> this is after the bootloader
  <HazRPG> with a blank cursor at the top left
  <HazRPG> I'll have to restart, and try to boot again to try and get in
  <HazRPG> don't know what causes it
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: very good point, yes, :)
  <HazRPG> do you get that too?
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: is it sticking justafter grub,but before the kernel buffer messages. ?
  <HazRPG> yeah
  <brobostigon> Linux debian 2.6.37-trunk-686 #1 SMP Thu Jan 6 14:39:08 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: however i am using debian sid/unstable with the above kernel and most recent grub2.
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm just using standard ubuntu 10.10 with current updates
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i dont think we can compare then.
  <HazRPG> its just weird how it just randomly does that before booting the O/S :/
  <HazRPG> it did this in 10.04 too
  <HazRPG> but was fine in other versions before that
  <Neoti> im back
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: on my eeepc,with 10.10, i didnt have the problem, however here it sid its there. and it seems to only do it, it seems, when gnome-shell plays up, and i have to force restart.
  <brobostigon> Neoti: wb. :)
  <Neoti> just booted windows up on my other partition on this computer loaded the huppage capture card and the software kept crashing ..... i got 0 analogue stations 0 digital stations and 1 radio station ... YIPEE!!!! lol .... ARGH!!! DAM WINDOWS!!!!!
  <Neoti> so i am going to try my luck on ubuntu!
  <Neoti> also stupid Q is UK east or west europe.... i can not think
  <brobostigon> western europe.
  <brobostigon> Neoti: poland, turkey etc is eastern europe
  <Neoti> ah ... good.. i thought it was west ... just thought i would check ... i had freevo selected on west but thought its always best to check ... he he
  <brobostigon> :)
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <Neoti> ok i have the huppage thing installed i have also install TVtime to test picture output, i have a device hooked up to composite 1 and i can see the picture etc... i can not get TV on here becuse the area is crap , but how do i get a picture in XBMC now that i now my card sorta works lol
  <HazRPG> Neoti: should have a setup section somewhere in XBMC somewhere
  <selinuxium> Does anyone know how to record a stream from ustream? I am gigging tonight and the club is streaming it. Would really like to record it...
  <Neoti> ok this video shows TV being used i just cant find how to enable it... and i cant find stuff on the net either....
  <Neoti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAFZBrUz3Rs&feature=related
  <daubers> Nice!
  <daubers>  Window manager warning: Received a _NET_WM_MOVERESIZE message for 0x4e00003 (Update Man); these messages lack timestamps and therefore suck.
  <christhecoolboy> I need help :(
  <christhecoolboy> AlanBell?
  <AlanBell> sorry, I am off out now
  <AlanBell> catch me later in the week or ask your question and someone may know
  <AlanBell> my webook upgrade appears to be failing
  <christhecoolboy> its an emergency :(
  <Thingymebob> wow unity is bad right now
  <HazRPG> just used nano for the first time \o/
  <brobostigon> :)
   * HazRPG +1 ubuntu skill
  <brobostigon> much easier to use than other alternatives.
  <HazRPG> couldn't be bothered loggin out of my sister's session to login to mine to change /etc/apt/sources.list
  <brobostigon> ah,
  <HazRPG> (she doesn't have admin access at all)
  <czajkowski> c
  <brobostigon> i see.
  <HazRPG> so CTRL+ALT+F1
  <HazRPG> which I use often anyways - quicker to access the terminal that way
  <HazRPG> win :)
  <brobostigon> i always have a terminal window open, 99% of the time.
   * brobostigon needs some inspiration.
  <Gringo> Where can i et some cool ubuntu themes from?
  <brobostigon> gnome-look i think its called, is a good start.
  <Gringo> ...
  <Gringo> #ubuntu
  <brobostigon>  /join #ubuntu
  <OmNomSequitur> Gringo should've tried #ubuntu-mx
  <brobostigon> ideas of a voicemail app for android, thats works with o2 ?
  <DJones> brobostigon: brobostigon Don't O2 provide a voicemail service?
  <brobostigon> DJones: yes, i was just thinking as to if there something that canshow me,if ihave voicemail without having to ring their number.
  <HazRPG> OmNomSequitur: what does the mx part for?
  <HazRPG> there are apps so that it records the actual phone calls onto your phone instead
  <DJones> brobostigon: Right, don't know how o2 work, but with vodafone, if i've got voicemail, i get a message in the notification area
  <brobostigon> DJones: ok, i havent seen such a think yet. hmm.
  <OmNomSequitur> HazRPG: Mexico.
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: don't think o2 support that
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: o2 doesn't support a lot of things :/
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: :(
  <HazRPG> I hate how it doesn't support delivery reports properly :/
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: that too,
  <HazRPG> typing in #0* in front of a message is not a delivery report :/
  <HazRPG> sorry its *0#
  <HazRPG> if you type that infront of a message body, you'll get sent a text message back when they receive the message
  <HazRPG> personally, that's just laziness as far as the network is concerned :/
  <brobostigon> hmm,
  <HazRPG> its just a hack/tweak imho
  <HazRPG> don't worry the *0# doesn't get sent to the recipient
  <HazRPG> it gets parsed out
  <brobostigon> interesting.
  <moreati> HazRPG: A random question, but it's always bugged me. Do you know how blackberries do push notifications without draining their battery like Android/$other?
  <HazRPG> moreati: how do ya mean?
  <brobostigon> the sync in android uses massive amounts of battery here. unusable unless i am plugged in.
  <HazRPG> moreati: might be worth changing how often it checks for sync stuff
  <moreati> HazRPG: as I understand it a blackberry phone on a supported network can receive events TCP/IP level events like 'new email', much like any other phone can receive an SMS. TO achieve the same Android and others resort to regular polling - or maintaining long lived TCP/IP connections. The former achieves 'push' without the battery drain of the latter
  <moreati> Basically a Blackberry server can ping a blackberry phone at some layer below IP, as I understand it
  <HazRPG> as far as I know, the the android doesn't maintain long lived TCP/IP connections - it just looks every x amount of time
  <HazRPG> just change it from the default 30 seconds to something longer
  <HazRPG> other than that, there is no real way to do it - since that is a special feature of the blackberry client/server
  <moreati> HazRPG: I'm happy enough with my battery life, I'm just curious really. Thanks though
  <HazRPG> not unless your willing to make your own set of services/apps
  <HazRPG> shouldn't be too hard to make, you could make a server application that checks as much as it wants to say gmail/etc, when something new is received set a flag to say 1 (0 = none, 1 = new stuff) and then make an application on your phone to just randomly "ping" the server to see if a new flag of stuff has been done
  <HazRPG> I mean the way the applications do it now is that they have to authenticate with the services in question, and then sync the data between the two
  <HazRPG> where-as you could make an app to just check if something new has happened, then set off the regular sync method on the phone when new stuff is actually available
  <HazRPG> but all depends on your coding skill - and I wouldn't be surprised if someone has/is working on something similar
  <moreati> HazRPG: my half-idea was a monitor somewhere online, web-to-sms gateway, and a daemon that intercepted particularly formatted messages on the phone to trigger a fetch by the app - no need for frequent polling
  <HazRPG> that could be do-able also I guess
  <HazRPG> google calendar can be used to send free sms's :P
  <HazRPG> I've seen a few apps that have exploited such
  <HazRPG> because you can set the calender to send text messages as reminders of events
  <HazRPG> but you can also put a URL for the calender to grab a list of events
  <HazRPG> I've seen people make server applications, which creates a list that google calender accepts, and likewise sends your phone a message - at which point they've make an application for their phone to see those messages, parse out the data and then delete the message so that it doesn't show up in your inbox
  <moreati> HazRPG: That's basically what I'd imagined, good to know it works :)
  <HazRPG> just a case of making one for your needs ;)
  <HazRPG> http://hackyourday.com/2007/12/03/using-google-calendar-to-send-free-sms/
  <HazRPG> haven't read it, but that's the "hack" I guess you could call it
  <HazRPG> (hack in the sense that it does what you want, and not in the illegal sense of hacking)
  <HazRPG> urgh... out of smokes T_T
  <HazRPG> brb
   * brobostigon scp's HazRPG some of his.
  <HazRPG> what does scp stand for
  <brobostigon> secure copy. copy over ssh.
  <HazRPG> ah lol
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: it just means, no one inbetween can nick them.
  <HazRPG> :P
  <brobostigon> :)
  <brobostigon> new top gear, tonight, 8pm bbc2.
  <moreati> brobostigon: First ep was a bit meh, but we live in hope ;)
  <suprengr> tonight's show might be greatest sjow ........................................................in the wooorrld!
  <brobostigon> moreati: well, we will see,yes.
  <moreati> brobostigon: How hard can it be :)
  <brobostigon> moreati: not much, :)
  <HazRPG> is it possible to do something similar to CTRL+ALT+F1 on ubuntu/debian server?
  <brobostigon> screen or byobu
  <brobostigon> i prefer byobu, as it shows you loads of system details and stats, at the bottom ofyou terminal window.
  <mgdm> screen use to do that too?
  <brobostigon> mgdm: i never maanaged to get screen to do that. anyways, screen runs inside byobu nyways.
  <dutchie> byobu is just an interface to screenrc
  <brobostigon> yes, dutchie.
  <dutchie> there is a byobu command that can dump out a screenrc that you can use anywhere with just screen installed
  <brobostigon> i didnt know about that, ilike.
  <popey> HazRPG: just "su - youruser" to switch to your account then "sudo whatever"
  <popey> HazRPG: or su -c <youruser> sudo <blah>"
  <HazRPG> popey: Reason for my question was I was wondering if you can open up several terminals sorta speak on ubuntu server
  <popey> terminator?
  <popey> !info terminator
  <lubotu3> terminator (source: terminator): multiple GNOME terminals in one window. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.95-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 226 kB, installed size 1884 kB
  <HazRPG> cool
  <HazRPG> :/ looking at videos of gnome-shell and unity... I don't think I like either...
  <MartijnVdS> there's still the classic panel
  <shauno> change is bad!
  <HazRPG> shauno: not all change is bad
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: from when is the gnome-shell videos youhave watched? its changing fairly quuickly right now, so its ikely different from the videos youhave seen, now.
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: the one I saw was of 2/12/2010 - he downloaded the latest version straight from git
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: it has changed abit since then.
  <MartijnVdS> 2/12 European or 2/12 US? :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <HazRPG> ;) european ;p
  <HazRPG> this is -uk you know ;)
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: sure, but the UK is part of Europe
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Sure TV says it's not, but it is.
  <moreati> MartijnVdS: I thought dd/mm was the European convention as well
  <HazRPG> okay... I was saying dd/mm/yyyy
  <HazRPG> personally I think the whole world should just switch to yyyy/mm/dd and rid the confusion >_<
  <shauno> hah, I use yyyymmdd
  <MartijnVdS> moreati: I wish the world would adopy yyyy-mm-dd
  <moreati> HazRPG: technically ISO 8601 uses dashes: so yyy-mm-dd
  <MartijnVdS> adopt
  <HazRPG> true
  <shauno> it's fantastic.  alphabetical order becomes chronological order, and everything starts to make sense by default
  <moreati> shauno: for the next 9989 years at least :)
  <MartijnVdS> moreati: it even works with 5-digit years
  <moreati> damn, no 7989
  <MartijnVdS> moreati: or more
  <HazRPG> lol
  <moreati> not if we're writing strings using 4 digit years now
  <shauno> if all goes to plan, it won't be my problem by then :)
  <HazRPG> hah, exactly
  <HazRPG> xD
  <MartijnVdS> moreati: but if we write them in iso8601 format, they can be parsed and re-printed as yyyyy-mm-dd :)
  <MartijnVdS> moreati: if we can do it now, we can do it in 8000 years
  <HazRPG> I mean me... I'll be luck if I see 2100
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: with your smoking habit... :P
  <HazRPG> regardless of smoking habit xD
  <HazRPG> I'd be a 110 or so by then
  <HazRPG> holy crap: http://abovethelaw.com/2010/01/seventh-circuit-rules-dungeons-dragons-a-threat-to-prison-security/
  <HazRPG> Apparently D&D is "gang-like" activity - according the some american prison guards and a judge agreeing!
  <shauno> Apparently you've never seen dwarfs attack in groups, or you'd probably agree.
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good thing I'm not going to the US any time soon
  <HazRPG> heh, true... but still
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Land of the "free"
  <HazRPG> best quote ever: I mean, letâs be clear, itâs not like Singer is a peaceful man. Singer is in jail on a life sentence forfirst-degree murder. He killed his sisterâs boyfriendÂ with a sledgehammerÂ (and now you see why I suggested that Singer probably plays a Dwarf, warrior class). If heâs found an outlet for some of his more violent tendencies, isnât that a good thing?
  <nucc1> i'm about to signup for a linode... anyone got a referral?
  <MartijnVdS> hmm. Amy Pond in HD :)
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
  <MartijnVdS> yay promos for the "old" series :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <brobostigon> ah.
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: how do I go about installing gnome-shell?
  <HazRPG> oh wait, heh sudo apt-get install gnome-shell worked xD
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing use that ppa, the in repopackages are very outdated,
  <HazRPG> ah cool
  <brobostigon> :)
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: which ubuntu version are you using?
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: 10.10
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i would compilefrom the gnome git then, its more upto date thanthe inrepopackages, thwyare dead old.
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: that ppa is natty 11.04 only,
  <brobostigon> https://webstats.gnome.org/GnomeShell#Building
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: would this not work: http://joneslee85.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/howto-install-gnome-shell-on-ubuntu-maverick-10-10/ ?
  <brobostigon> https://webstats.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DistributionPackages
  <brobostigon> let melook.
  <brobostigon> that isnt going to work anymore, asthe ppa it uses is the same asimentioned eralier, andis natty only now.
  <HazRPG> just typed it in a browser, and maverick is there: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/staging/ubuntu/dists/
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, i havent tried from there.
  <brobostigon> https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/staging/+packages
  <brobostigon> it looks like there arent any gnome-shell packages in that ppa.
  <HazRPG> wow, that epically failed in a virtual machine >_<
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: its opengl driven.
  <HazRPG> I can that in the terminal lol
  <HazRPG> failed to create OpenGL framebuffer
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: how do ya figure its not got the packages in there?
  <HazRPG> the 3 it shows, are the last ones updated
  <HazRPG> at the top it says "3 source packages", "17 binary packages"
  <HazRPG> the 3 you see are the source ones
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, but i cant see a wayof listing them,
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/staging/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=
  <brobostigon> gnome-shell version in maverick 2.31 .in debian experimental 2.91, so the ubuntu main repopackages are quite far behind.
  <brobostigon> no recent gnome-shell package, most recent, is clutter, which is part of gnome-shell.
  <HazRPG> oh
  <HazRPG> heh#
  <brobostigon> HazRPG: i would just use the packages inthe maverick repo, they are very old, but they will give you a part impression, unless you have natty or want to compile from gnome's git.
  <HazRPG> fair enough
  <HazRPG> might try out natty on my laptop
  <brobostigon> https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing
  <brobostigon> use the packages from there.
  <brobostigon> only realoption, other thncompiling from git.
  <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
  <popey> heya!
  <brobostigon> evening bigcalm
  <Pendulum> hiya bigcalm
  <bigcalm> What's happening?
  <popey> relaxing before work tomorrow
  <Pendulum> watching the US Figure Skating Championships (yes, really)
  <bigcalm> Hayley has the day off tomorrow, which means I get a tea fairy for the day :)
  <brobostigon> going over my route from my lastdriving lesson, readyfor tmrw's.
  <popey> :D
  <popey> nice
  <popey> I am really into chai at the moment
  <mgdm> I've not had that in a wee while
  <popey> i have to use two teabags because one isnt strong enough for me
  <mgdm> I did have a chai latte thing a while ago that was *really* nice
  <popey> yeah. i love the starbucks ones
  <AlanBell> hi all
  <popey> wifey bought me some twinings chai teabags, which are nice but not the same
  <popey> hi AlanBell
  <Pendulum> hi AlanBell
  <mgdm> popey: Oh yeah, I think I had the Whitards equivalent... they were OK, but not great
  <popey> aq recommended something else though, said it was more like the starbucks one
  <popey> "The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because it uses an invalid or unsupported form of compression."
  <popey> nice
  <popey> asda.com
  <popey> probably a dodgy proxy or sommat
  <mgdm> usually means an error got thrown and not caught in the output compression,w hen I see that
  <mgdm> but then I often control the bit that throws the error :)
  <popey> drinkemchai is the one aq recommended
  <popey> hehe
  <Pendulum> I feel like someone else claimed that about asda's site last week or the weekend before?
  <Pendulum> (in this channel, even)
  <DJones> asda.com works fine for me
  <popey> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgroceries.asda.com%2Fasda-estore%2Fproducts%2Fproducts.jsp%3FskuId%3D66397880%26departmentid%3D1214921923747%26aisleid%3D1214921926017%26startValue%3D100&rct=j&q=2344159%20asda&ei=vd5FTYbyE43i4AbguKw9&usg=AFQjCNFqSU6YSpzPC3KhOnT1hJVlIAgcFg&cad=rja
  <popey> erk, sorry
  <popey> that may or may not link to the item in question
   * popey is watching Al Jazeera
  <popey> bloke was reading out tweets
  <mgdm> I wonder if I could do something with the steamer bit of my espresso machine to make that :)
  <bigcalm> Grr
  <popey> someone in Egypt was sharing out his open wifi and said "I'm sharing wifi with my bldg", the bloke read it out as "sharing wifi with my blog". plum
  <popey> mgdm: what machine do you have?
  <AlanBell> I am at her majesty's theatre
  <popey> in that london?
  <AlanBell> yes
  <mgdm> popey: it's a Delonghi BCO-231, i think (not sure on the model number)
  <mgdm> Oh, 261
  <AlanBell> where phantom is normally on
  <AlanBell> but for one night only...
  <AlanBell> my little girl \o/
  <popey> :D
  <popey> blimey, now?
  <AlanBell> just finished
  <popey> thats late
  <AlanBell> dance competition show thing
  <popey> how did she do?
  <AlanBell> great
  <popey> :)
  <AlanBell> but up against stage schools
  <Pendulum> AlanBell: I'm glad it went well :)
  <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
  <bigcalm> What the flip-flop is VirgrimMedia doing with my connection?
  <AlanBell> pen you would have enjoyed it
  <mgdm> flip-flop seems like a fair assessment
  <Pendulum> AlanBell: well, yeah, I'd assumed that :P
  <bigcalm> Flippity floppity foo
   * bigcalm goes looking for a mouse so that mines may be crafted
  <AlanBell> incidentally swype typos pen to porn
  <Pendulum> Is that something that can be said in this channel? :P
  <AlanBell> it was a technical comment
   * DJones blames AlanBell's fingers, swype for pen came up with pen for me
  <popey> bigcalm: seen ali1234's underground glass house?
  <bigcalm> Not yet
  <popey> its pretty
  <bigcalm> ...
  <gord> one of the problems with minecraft, someone can make something great underground but no one else will know its there ;)
  <bigcalm> ADSA long life batteries are anything but
  <gord> ha
  <gord> yes, they are not good
  <bigcalm> !ping
  <lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
  <bigcalm> ffs
  <moreati>  bigcalm I highly recommend these, particularly for high drain usage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_self-discharge_NiMH_battery
  <bigcalm> Gotta get me some LSD :D
  <bigcalm> I can't play minecraft on popey's server due to constant disconnects :(
  <popey> :(
  <gord> maaan i can't wait for an arm image for my ac100, firefox 4 is gonna run sweet on this thing
  <bigcalm> This is making me grumpy
  <bigcalm> And we lost in the hockey. 2 - 11
  <hamitron> :/
  <popey> yo hamitron !
  <popey> I think we need some pyramids near the Sphynx!
  <hamitron> near where?
  <hamitron> my plan is to make 4 volcano, then a pyrimid that dwarfs them
  <hamitron> if that fits in
  <popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/gmaps/ south east on that map along the train line from your place
  <popey> half way between your place and the south eastern edge of the map
  <hamitron> omg, you can see my place on the map
  <hamitron> haha
  <popey> :)
  <popey> whats that stack of earth north of your volcano?
  <popey> is that the start of a new one?
  <hamitron> yes
  <popey> nice
  <hamitron> I have put borders for another 3
  <hamitron> one, NW, one N and one NE
  <popey> i can see pumpkins directly north from your hosue
  <hamitron> see what? ;)
  <bigcalm> Remaining Lease Time
  <bigcalm> 0 days 00:53:52
  <bigcalm> Not good
  <bigcalm> What are vm playing at?
  <hamitron> will a pyrimid be good to the west of the sphinx?
   * popey shrugs
  <hamitron> big area of sand
  <popey> yeah, I guess so :)
  <gord> you should really make pyramids out of gold blocks ;)
  <popey> gold inside
  <hamitron> and you can mine for me \o/
  <hamitron> ;)
  <hamitron> donate gold to your god
  <hamitron> ;/
  <popey> heh
  <hamitron> I was thinking a 51x51 grid for the base?
  <popey> is the map tall enough for that?
  <popey> given I guess it would be 51 high?
  <hamitron> 25 high
  <gord> depends how far above sea level you are
  <hamitron> I can make it 101x101 if you prefer ;)
  <popey> btw gord do you see bug 710356 ?
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 710356 in unity (Ubuntu) "Window resize grab area is outside window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710356
  <popey> I'd test how high you can go, and make it that big -1 so you can stand on it :)
  <gord> popey, not on a system that can run unity at the moment, can't test
  <popey> ok, nvm :)
  <popey> I'm sure someone will look at it at some point :)
  <gord> minecraft i think is 128 blocks of height, with water at 64
  <gord> we have people doing daily triaging of unity bugs, we see them all :)
  <popey> Excellent smithers.
  <hamitron> so i can fit 101x101 in
  <popey> thats gonna be immense
  <popey> wonder if we could ship sand to you via train from elsewhere :)
  <hamitron> sand!?!!?!
  <hamitron> sandstone ;)
  <popey> heh, yeah
  <hamitron> made to last time
  <gord> i think my sphere of glass was around 600+ sand all together, doesn't take long to mine sand if you do it right
  <hamitron> I think it should be 101x101
  <gord> well... if you wanted a sand pyramid you'd have to fill the insides too, thats gonna add up
  <hamitron> no point in doing a half assed job
  <dutchie> 1/6 * n * (n+1) * (2n+1)
  <popey> yeah, sand would fail
  <popey> as soon as someone dug underneath it
  <popey> collapse!
  <popey> alan@wopr:~/Games/Minecraft$ cat run_minecraft.sh
  <popey> java -Xmx4096M -Xms2048M -jar Minecraft.jar
  <hamitron> be ok if you lined it with gold and fire
  <popey> :S
  <hamitron> ;)
  <dutchie> how many blocks you need to do a trianglular pyramid
  <popey> \o/ maths
  <hamitron> fire!
  <hamitron> is all we need
  <gord> hey, i have a run_minecraft.sh script too -_-
  <hamitron> and a train
  <hamitron> ;)
   * HazRPG wonders why they never made a super mario bros 2 movie :/
  <gord> because the first one was awful
  <HazRPG> I like it :/
  <HazRPG> in fact I was just watching it
  <moreati> It just didn't have any depth to the characters
  <HazRPG> come on, it was the 90's man
  <gord> hamitron, don't forget to bury all the people that helped make it with you in a tomb, to take to the afterlife
  <HazRPG> boom boom acka-lacka lacka boom, boom boom acka-lacka boom boom!
  <HazRPG> open the door, get on the floor, everybody walk the dinosaur!
   * HazRPG dances
  <gord> speaking of terrible movies, i saw resident evil afterlife 3d last night. it is terrible.
  <moreati> Wow so may sequels they've switched to hex notation?
  <HazRPG> moreati: xD
  <hamitron> heading to the sand castle site soon
  <HazRPG> Final Fantasy E xD
  <HazRPG> that should totally be the next FF name
  <HazRPG> not 14 or XIV
  <HazRPG> FF xE
  <HazRPG> or 0E
  <HazRPG> hamitron: ...?
  <HazRPG> oh minecraft
  <HazRPG> heh I bought that earlier today
  <popey> :)
  <popey> feel free to join us on my server :)
  <HazRPG> popey: was on your server for a bit too
  <popey> oh cool :)
  <HazRPG> love the work you've done making it
  <popey> i do feel bad calling it a server
  <popey> I have done very little :)
  <HazRPG> how long did it take to make it?
   * popey points to hamitron gord ali1234 and bigcalm 
  <HazRPG> yeah I noticed bigcalm's notice xD
  <HazRPG> "remember to close the door" or something
  <popey> :)
  <HazRPG> man, I hate early mornings :/
  <HazRPG> gotta get up at like 7-8am
  <HazRPG> I prefer 9am starts :/
  <gord> i'm not sure how people who don't own warm small cats to sit on their lap even survive the cold harsh winter
  <dutchie> what about large dog-shaped cats that like sitting on your lap anyway?
   * bigcalm is adding pointless support pillars to the bridges
   * HazRPG prefers dogs
   * moreati prefers central heating
  <hamitron> heating? ;/
  <hamitron> mud hut built
  <hamitron> \o/
  <HazRPG> Argh! Was just about to install ubuntu on my netbook - but I forgot one thing
  <HazRPG> it doesn't have a CD drive xD
   * HazRPG ratches around for that bootable pendrive I made a while back
  <HazRPG> is the netbook or regular version best for a netbook?
  <HazRPG> I mean obvious naming would say that the netbook would be
  <HazRPG> but not sure if I could deal with the 3D unity
  <HazRPG> normal one should work fine right?
  <popey> what netbook?
  <gord> the netbook and regular editions arn't fundamentally different, you can change a netbook edition install into a regular install very quickly. same for the other way around
  <gord> ie: you can try the netbook version, if your netbook can't handle it just apt-get remove ubuntu-netbook-default-settings (i think) and you should get a regular gnome-panel setup
  <HazRPG> gord: thanks, managed to find my 10.04 USB
  <HazRPG> http://www.loopsandpluto.com/products/Moss-T%252dShirt.html <== woot
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-23
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Hacking On Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/23/hacking-on-accomplishments/
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <Myrtti> moin
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: anythign nice planned this week ?
  <Myrtti> we've got a Jaiku meetup in Tampere to reminisce
  <czajkowski> cool, like meet ups always different people at them
  <Myrtti> yeah well I've met all these people before, it'll be more like a funeral wake than anything else
  <Myrtti> (Jaiku was shut down a week ago)
  <czajkowski> :/
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <daubers> Morning
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <DJones> Morning all
   * daubers feels like rubbish this morning :(
  <MooDoo> daubers: man flu?
  <daubers> MooDoo: Maybe. Lots of driving over the weekend + not much sleep more likely
  <MooDoo> oh dear :(
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning peeps
  <MooDoo> morning
  <smittix> Morning
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps!
  <bigcalm> I has Xoom \o/
  <popey> heh
  <bigcalm> Morning popey
  <danfish> lo
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: xooooooom!
  <bigcalm> Indeedie
  <bigcalm> Wow, the touch screen is so responsive. This is a completely different world from the poop cheepy tablet I bought before
  <oimon> i just discovered that sony use an ubuntu based splashtop on their laptops
  <bigcalm> Where's a davmor2 when you need one?
  <Myrtti> I can imitate one
   * Myrtti pokes czajkowski 
  <Myrtti> there
  <Myrtti> :-D
  <bigcalm> :D
  <popey> oimon: interesting, got a link or anything?
  <MooDoo> lol @ Myrtti
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: oi lol
  <czajkowski> davmor2 doesnt come on till later in the morning
  <Myrtti> and suddenly, a wild davmor2 appears.
  <Myrtti> when I was in school we had this theory that if you mention some of the teachers by name, they appear as if by magic
  <czajkowski> Myrtti: ahh yes the bettlejuice effect :)
  <czajkowski> say it 3 times and they appear!
  <Myrtti> I thought it was candyman
  <Myrtti> I don't watch horror movies at all and thrillers only at home, so I'm not sure
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: did you say you had a Xoom?
  <bigcalm> Myrtti: it was Beetlejuice. I think Candyman was 5 times (not seen it though)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I do
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I've reflashed it with stock US firmware (there's a guide on xda-developer)
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I was going to ask if you've been sent the OTA ICS update
  <bigcalm> But you've altered it from stock
  <bigcalm> I'm in no rush, just wondering when to expect it to update in the UK
  <hoover> good morning
  <bigcalm> Hi hoovie
  <JamesTait> Good morning all!
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <oimon> popey: no, a friend got it out on the train. instant-on system. i clicked on the ackowledgements and opensource info and they use a 2.6.x kernel, some elements of ubuntu 8.10 and mozilla browser with bing search
  <oimon> Sony models that have shipped with Quick Web Access (powered by Splashtop) include the following: â¢ VAIO NW Series notebooksÂ  â¢ VAIO P Series netbooks
  <oimon> source is here: http://www.splashtop.com/opensource
  <hoover> hey biggie
  <popey> oimon: i didnt think splashtop was ubuntu powered, wondered what elements made you think it was
  <popey> haha the source 404's
  <oimon> popey: it was mentioned on the acknowledgements page with a list of elements used (busybox, kernel). it may just have been the wifi drivers from ubuntu
  <oimon> popey: yeah :(
  <oimon> my friend wanted to change bing as search provider on the browser but didn't seem possible. the instant on was very nice
  <popey> yeah, my acer revo came with it
  <bigcalm> Instant on? I never turned mine off to find out
  <popey> heh
  <oimon> i like to shut all my devices down at night
  <oimon> phone, tablet, laptop..
  <popey> are you 75 years old?
  <czajkowski> I only shut down laptop
  <bigcalm> I shut down laptops and workstations. Servers I tend to leave running
  <Daviey> 'workstations'..
  <Daviey> who has a 'workstation', these days?
  <MartijnVdS> My laptop auto-suspends after an hour
  <bigcalm> I do
  <oimon> it's nice to know devices are switched off :D
  <MartijnVdS> my tablet and phone turn "off" (screen off) and are on the charger at night
  <oimon> i don't leave stuff charging overnight
  <MartijnVdS> you must not have a smart phone
  <MartijnVdS> or not move much during the day
  <Daviey> bigcalm: is this yours, http://www.chuckc.net/images/labeledsetup.jpg ?
  <Myrtti> AND SUDDENLY A DAVMOR2 APPEARS
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <bigcalm> Not quite
  <davmor2> morning all
  <bigcalm> davmor2: welcome. No need to bring your Xoom on Thursday ;)
  <davmor2> Myrtti: you been talking about me again
  <davmor2> bigcalm: you got one then :)
  <bigcalm> Yep, arrived this morning
  <bigcalm> davmor2: have you put a non-stock rom on it?
  <bigcalm> s/it/yours
  <davmor2> bigcalm: Nope
  <oimon> MartijnVdS: my phone still lasts more than a working day, but i don't make phone calls
  <davmor2> bigcalm: just did updates
  <Myrtti> davmor2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/814138/
  <bigcalm> davmor2: good, so have you been sent ICS OTA?
  <davmor2> hahaha
  <davmor2> bigcalm: not that I'm aware of
  <Myrtti> that's almost good enough to go into the book
  <davmor2> bigcalm: just general updates
  <bigcalm> davmor2: ok, ta. Just wondering when I should expect ICS to be available in the UK
  <MooDoo> moring davmor2
  <davmor2> bigcalm: from what I understand they are rolling out samples in the US now Scandinavia seem to get it next with the UK after that
  <bigcalm> Daviey: this is my setup: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/ZfAXJ1PDpWz
  <davmor2> MooDoo: me awld mukka 'ow am ya bud
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but as I said, on US firmware
  <bigcalm> Ah, I see!
  <MooDoo> davmor2: aye not bad, can't grumble.....too much
   * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
   * MooDoo hugs davmor2 and pokes czajkowski 
  <oimon> does deprecated code still work? i.e. is it removed, or flagged to be removed? warning: âgtk_vbox_newâ is deprecated (declared at /usr/include/gtk-3.0/gtk/deprecated/gtkvbox.h:62): Use 'gtk_box_new' instead [-Wdeprecated-declarations]
  <davmor2> mines looking a little too untidy for a photo op at the moment but I have 5pc and a server into 3 kvms, 2 laptops and a netbook
  <matti> oimon: Yes, in most cases.
  <davmor2> czajkowski: 'ows the back sweetie oh and err PROD!
  <oimon> matti: hmm.. so removing Werror is bad then :D
  <matti> oimon: Yes ;p
  <gord> bigcalm, your room there looks exactly the same as the room i am in, down to the radiator and everything
  <davmor2> Myrtti: see you can get away with poking czajkowski but somehow it sounds wrong coming from a bloke Prods are the "PC" way forward ;)
  <bigcalm> gord: spooky
  <bigcalm> gord: same mess?
  <Myrtti> davmor2: I was just imitating you!
  <Myrtti> :-P
  <Myrtti> I did get an "oi" too :-P
  <gord> bigcalm, less banana's
   * funkyHat pokes everyone
  <Myrtti> funkyHat: I thought I already took your cake away
  <gord> and more speakers
  <Myrtti> funkyHat: don't make me come for the beverage as well
   * funkyHat giggles and runs away
  <gord> and more cats
  <davmor2> Myrtti: yes only czajkowski is being nice to me now as a new year resolution I might be down in London soon though so that will change :D
  <funkyHat> Myrtti: yes, the lack of cake is making me act up!
  <gord> i do have books making my monitors higher though
  <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski?? nice??  nah that's not right :D
  <czajkowski> MooDoo: I'm always nice ask davmor2
  <MooDoo> davmor2: can you confirm that dubious statement from czajkowski ?
  <davmor2> MooDoo: her's trying but it always sounds like someone is holding a gun to her head when she says it :D
  <MooDoo> davmor2: what you given her to make her nice to you?
  <czajkowski> :(
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: is nver nice to me :( lol
  <davmor2> MooDoo: A new year apparently
  <MooDoo> davmor2: blimey.....
  <czajkowski> MooDoo: are you from northhampton?
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: nope
  <davmor2> MooDoo: deny it and run
   * funkyHat is from Northampton
  <MooDoo> davmor2: damn i missed something there
  <davmor2> czajkowski: now as if he lives there
  <czajkowski> ah but you dont follow rugby and we thrashed them at the weekend :D
  <davmor2> ask
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: yes yes i am from northampton...definately
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm a quins fan not a saints fan
  <davmor2> MooDoo: I thought you were in Nottingham :D
  <funkyHat> Rugby is less boring than most team sports, I suppose
  <directhex> pfft, northampton
  <MooDoo> davmor2: yes but i've an affinity with quins
  <matti> directhex: Is that entire Mono or just this one platform?
  <directhex> as someone who went to uni in southampton, there is only one thing northampton is good for
  <directhex> which is Buddies USA diners
  <directhex> matti, depends on whether boycottnovell has run a headline with the story yet
  <davmor2> directhex: is it War huuuu!
  <matti> directhex: Uhm.
  <matti> directhex: I see.
  <MooDoo> davmor2: perhaps i should be nice to czajkowski ?
  <directhex> matti, packages.qa reports a full-package removal, regardless of the specifics. and perhaps i know from experience that readers and editors of a certain website are incapable of fact checking, so won't actually check the bug being ANAIS, not RoM
  <matti> Haha
  <davmor2> MooDoo: I think she has a nicebot setup so when I say czajkowski prod! something nice is returned to be honest ;)
  <matti> directhex: The first thing I did was look at the bug.
  <matti> directhex: Does not seem like whole Mono will go.
  <funkyHat> directhex: I would have to agree. I was trying to think of something else but can't
  <MooDoo> davmor2: phew, well we need the real czajkowski i miss her!
  <matti> directhex: I was surprised as some of our internal development is making an effort to move from .NET on Mono.
   * funkyHat has escaped to London
  <matti> directhex: So it would be funny thing if the support would go away :)
  <davmor2> funkyHat: that's easy just don't live, work or drive there it's a doodle to leave then
  <directhex> matti, mono needs to be formally removed from s390, otherwise 105 other packages keep trying to build with it needlessly
  <AlanBell> I expect the user of mono on the 31bit S390 will be up in arms
  <matti> directhex: That's fine and more than reasonable :)
  <matti> directhex: I am just worried about it on x86*
  <directhex> AlanBell, let me get the stats...
  <matti> directhex: I rather commit sepuku than end up in a position to keep on packaging Mono for my internal team.
   * matti dislikes anything that touches Windows ...
  <directhex> AlanBell, well, only 15 s390 users have popcon installed...
  <matti> AlanBell: :)
  <AlanBell> directhex: I am quite impressed at the 15!
  <directhex> AlanBell, so 31.6% of Debian users across all architectures have Mono installed, meaning... 4.7 s390 users!
  <oimon> notice that 32-bit vs 64-bit is almost at tipping point on popcon.debian.org
  <directhex> i would be astonished if anyone was running s390 by choice rather than s390x
  <directhex> we're adding s390x packages to mono
  <oimon> logarithmic chart..hmmm
  <AlanBell> directhex: that is 3.7 more than I would have expected
  <directhex> AlanBell, you can prove anything with statistics :p
  <directhex> AlanBell, we also just fixed musicbrainz support when ripping cds with banshee on itanium. very important user base.
  <Laney> except that dbus is still broken
  <directhex> pfft dbus
  <directhex> why didn't we upload the fix for that?
  <Laney> you thought it might be wrong
  <directhex> i wasn't sure! i was seeking further comment!
  <Laney> well *i* dunno!
  <Laney> ask #mono Â¬_Â¬
  <davmor2> bigcalm: there's part of my layout http://ubuntuone.com/7KmJOHbEYZ567Q0mZZYwmV
  <bigcalm> Looks noisey
   * popey decides not to take a pic of his setup until it's tidied
  <bigcalm> popey: sensible
   * gord is agreeing with popey 
  <davmor2> popey: that was mine pre usage it's a bit messier now bit's of paper with notes on scattered liberally :)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: the noisiest thing in that room is me :D
  <bigcalm> Hah
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I'll take that as agreement then :D
  <Myrtti> "Let this be a lesson for future generations: do not use Google Translate to translate Finnish and assume it does a good job." http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/2012/01/1482051/googlen-kaannoskukkanen-kaikista-paavoista-tuli-pesusienia :-|
  <gordonjcp> Myrtti: heh
  <davmor2> Myrtti: it doesn't do a good job on Brazilian/Portuguese?  either there were some hilarious incidents with a friends facebook comments :)
  <gordonjcp> Myrtti: I tend to work on the assumption that there are damn sight more Finnish-to-English translations than English-to-Finnish
  <gordonjcp> Myrtti: hence it probably does a better job of Finnish to English
  <gordonjcp> which still isn't brilliant at times
  <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I wouldn't use it at all if there receiving end doesn't understand any Finnish
  <Myrtti> or isn't atleast minimally knowledgeable about Finland
  <gord> http://ubuntuone.com/5rRghtDT2mJXGsSWbI6fXP - how gord lives
  <dwatkins> only two displays, gord? ;)
  <bigcalm> gord: spooky room. You even have the same web cam as me now!
  <oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/34gUnM0Ioa935DGnSoKWzt rather large orifice
   * AlanBell thinks SpongeBob would be an excellent president
  <AlanBell> oimon: I want one of those aero chair things
  <AlanBell> aeron or something
  <oimon> very nice
  <bigcalm> AlanBell: they are worth it
  <oimon> last chair did my back in . never have problems with this one
  <gord> bigcalm, nah, this is a playstation eye
  <gord> bigcalm, can your webcam do 125frames per second? mine can!
  <bigcalm> gord: so is mine now :)
  <gord> oooh okay
  <bigcalm> gord: that photo of mine is from a while back
  <oimon> i feel motivated to tidy my office now
  <oimon> i thought it was tidy till i looked at the photo
  <gord> bigcalm, but you surely don't have a wookie protecting your systems
  <bigcalm> gord: I have a tux and a tardis on guard duty
  <gord> that'll never stop darth vader
  <gord> who is an ever present threat
  <bigcalm> True
  <dwatkins> http://ubuntuone.com/1hBYg1QZHYE3kjbqNnXCL6 is where I'm currently sitting
  <oimon> the next thread is gonna be the view from our window :D
  <dwatkins> if you like :) I can see the Pentland hills from here.
  <AlanBell> aeron chairs are still around Â£400 on ebay
  <dwatkins> 800 quid new, iirc
  <oimon> i always regret getting the charles eames chair from my former employer rather than the cheaper aeron type chair
  <dwatkins> how come, oimon?
  <dwatkins> I was lucky and managed to secure an aeron chair for working from home a few years back when they shut an office down
  <oimon> the charles eames chair was an expensive leather one from the board room. got it for prestige value, but the aeron chair i sat on every day was incredibly comfy
  <dwatkins> yeah, aerons are great, I'm sure my back problems would be worse if I didn't have them
  <bigcalm> Anybody here work standing up?
  <popey> i have a friend who does
  <bigcalm> Pondering if it's any good
  <oimon> i would be exhausted in 10 mins
  <bigcalm> aquarius: how did working standing up go for you?
   * oimon is 75
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I know a couple of people that do
  <Myrtti> saddlechairs might be a good option to standup desks
  <Myrtti> expensive tho
  <ikonia> there are those desks which move up and down
  <dwatkins> I've tried working standing up, it's fine so long as the floor has some give in it
  <ikonia> you can sit down, then stand up and move the desk up with you
  <Myrtti> dwatkins: or you're wearing good shoes
  <oimon> i can't see any benefit tbh
  <dwatkins> indeed Myrtti
  <dwatkins> in some offices they have desks you can raise to a height you can use standing up
  <dwatkins> make sure the power cables are long enough, obv.
  <christel> back when my spine was shagged, i found that the cheapest solution was to use a massive gym ball as a chair
  <christel> it was comfortable and ensured good posture!
  <ikonia> dwatkins: I've just come from a site from those desks, they where very cool
  <christel> (and doubled as a toy for when bored)
  <dwatkins> ikonia: groovy, which country?
  <ikonia> christel: I sometimes do that at home, kicks the abs muscales in
  <ikonia> dwatkins: Sweaden
  <dwatkins> ikonia: I suspected that was the case
  <TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: I saw those at Ericsson in Stockholm in the late 90's  - a few hardcore Swedes used to use the "standing up" posture for work.
  <ikonia> note "just come back" = sometime in the last 4 months
  <dwatkins> a colleague of mine reported the same desks in Sweden, ikonia
  <ikonia> it just seems like yesterday
  <christel> ikonia: *nod*
  <ikonia> dwatkins: it was a good working atmosphere and useful way to work
  <Myrtti> back in 1999 we had those desks at school
  <christel> saddle chairs are also good
  <christel> i have one in the garage that i no longer use
  <Myrtti> ooo
  <Myrtti> sell it to me?
  <christel> you can have it!
  <Myrtti> :-o
  <ikonia> dwatkins: gather round a desk for something, stand up, sit down working alone, stand up for a bit of creative stuff
  <ikonia> AT&T in the states had them in their operations center too
  <ikonia> christel: shame on you, use it
  <davmor2> christel: do you own the side saddle variety, being as you are a LADY
  <christel> davmor2: hahaha
  <christel> ikonia: nah, i no longer "need" to use it so it's been "retired" :)
  <ikonia> christel: there is no need, push further
  <Myrtti> I have gym ball in my "chicken coop"
  <dwatkins> I had a knee chair once, you kneel on it
  <awilkins> My mum has one of those, which I had when I was a teenager
  <MartijnVdS> yes it cuts off circulation to your lower leggs
  <MartijnVdS> for me anyway
  <awilkins> It makes my shins ache
  <Myrtti> yeah I tried to use a knee chair, my knees didn't like it :-|
  <christel> dwatkins: ooh i used to have that when i was Much younger
  <awilkins> Gymball might be OK
  <davmor2> Myrtti: when you say gym ball do you mean a balance ball or a heavy gym ball?
  <dwatkins> yeah, it's fone for a bit but gets a bit tiring after a while
  <awilkins> Especially if I can get Jessica Biel to come and sit on it (like in "Stealth")
  <christel> davmor2: a swiss ball
  <Myrtti> davmor2: huge inflatable thera-band fitness/excercise/gym ball
  <ikonia> I want a Bosu
  <ikonia> but they are a real rip off
  <davmor2> christel: but those are made from chocolate surely
  <christel> i used a 75cm (30") as a "chair"
  <ikonia> I sit on a spike
  <ikonia> </python>
  <awilkins> I have an Ikea "Magnus" I think
  <awilkins> Was about 80-90 quid
  <awilkins> It has the mesh back, a leather seat, lumbar support
  <MartijnVdS> I have one of those as well
  <MartijnVdS> â¥
  <awilkins> Sometimes I use the floating back mode which does tone you up
  <davmor2> awilkins: I have a huge leather chair from stapples iirc that cost about Â£100 more than that but is still comfortable 5 years in
  <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Markus I think? http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/40103100/
  <awilkins> davmor2, My office is also like a chicken coop
  <christel> ikonia: i get bosu's pretty cheap
  <awilkins> MartijnVdS, That's the one
  <christel> as it's considered a "rehabilition product" so it's sold by several of my suppliers at cost
  <davmor2> awilkins: mines an entire room I guess that is the difference :)
  <awilkins> My only gripe is the left armrest is wobbly but I can't find the allen key to tighten it up
  <awilkins> davmor2, My office is also an entire room, but it's a really tiny one
  <MartijnVdS> awilkins: any hardware/tool store has them
  <ikonia> christel: I'm interested
  <dwatkins> awilkins: I find those sets of hex-bits invaluable for many things
  <christel> i bought an extreme balance board not long ago, but david thinks it's a miniature zee-zaw
  <davmor2> awilkins: mines not huge 4x3 ish
  <awilkins> 4x3 m?
  <awilkins> I'd KILL for a 4x3 m office
  <davmor2> awilkins: Yeap
  <dwatkins> http://www.maplin.co.uk/33-piece-security-bit-set-11520 is what I have
  <dwatkins> ...somewhere
  <awilkins> I think mine is more like 3x2
  <oimon> i'm thinking of moving to a smaller office :D
  <oimon> i feel guilty having so much room
  <davmor2> oimon: I don't quite have enough I don't think.  /me need MOAR!
  <christel> ikonia: that can be arranged!
  <ikonia> xxxx
  <christel> i need to order a portable ultrasound unit thing so i can grab a bosu at the same time!
  <dwatkins> do you sit on a ball or a half-sphere with the Bosu?
  <dwatkins> looks like something I should get to improve balance and general core muscles
  <christel> the bosu (BOth Sides Up) can be used for a variety of execerises (stable or unstable depending on which way up you've got it) it#s also great for just adding some challenge to your normal excersizes -- but yeah, it's a balance training tool :)
  <dwatkins> nifty, looks like something I've used before in pyhsio for my back, will look into getting one
  <christel> yeah quite possibly, it's used a lot for rehab stuff by physiotherapists :)
  <christel> i do unstable squats on a bosu (so ball side down, flat bottom up) :)
  <dwatkins> yeah, my physiotherapist also suggested getting on of those big rolls
  <dwatkins> seeing the price of these, I think I'll wait a bit ;)
  <Myrtti> bosu? I need one
  <Myrtti> I was told by my physio years ago I need to a) get a better balance b) strengthen my ankles
  <christel> ah, a big foam roller? they are great!
  <christel> i use a rumbleroller (a bumpy one) now and again
  <dwatkins> I started doing Capaoera recently, but can't go at the moment having broken a toe (!)
  <dwatkins> that and swimming and cycling to work should sort me out in time :)
  <christel> what problems do you have with your back if you don't mind me asking?
  <dwatkins> mainly just stiffness, probably due to sitting and not getting a lot of e?cercise for the past 25 years ;)
  <dwatkins> occasional twinges, I gather it's quite common in people who work at a desk for a living and don't get a huge amount of excercise
  <christel> i used to have serious issues with my lower spine and found that weight training helped a tremendous amount as it built up sufficient muscle to keep stuff "in place" for longer :)
  <Myrtti> I feel so blessed for not having my back problems anymore
  <dwatkins> yeah, I gather strengthening the core muscles will help a lot
  <oimon> i slouch a lot, but seem to get away with it
  <gord> bigcalm, davmor2 - also in the vein of showing pictures from before, i feel the need to show off how nice and tidy my PC internals are ;) http://ubuntuone.com/2xQunhiHcLv5PUgXxepzMW - i can actually get at stuff without digging through cables!
  <bigcalm> Is there a need to open up your system that often?
  <dwatkins> I like cases with the PSU out the way
  <oimon> SATA improved things a lot in that area
  <popey> gord: your computer is upside down
  <gord> bigcalm, nope, but when i do i don't hate life
  <gord> popey, "better airflow" or something, there is a fan that pipes the bottom compartment into the main one, then there are three fans at the top to get rid of air in the main compartment
  <popey> sweet
  <directhex> i need to go & shorten my hair.
  <oimon> just slopped pasta sauce on myself before a big meeting
  <popey> cunning
  <directhex> claim it's the latest fashion
  <oimon> in attempting to clean it, the resulting wet patch is even worse
  <oimon> near my groin area
  <oimon> member of staff trying for 10 days to get a password reset with central helpdesk..pure dilbert
  <MartijnVdS> Still claim it's the latest fashion. With a straight face
  <Laney> wow
  <Laney> just got some epic screen corruption
  <czajkowski> Laney: I did up to last week then upgraded to lastest kernel and it was perfect again
  <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/errrr.png
  <czajkowski> Laney: mine last week http://twitpic.com/85czwx/full
  <Laney> consistency :P
  <Laney> guess i should restart X ...
  <awilkins> Laney, Looks like a corrupted font table
  <awilkins> Laney, The same block of corruption r
  <awilkins> epeats for the same letter each tine
  <awilkins> I just have a corrupted touch-typing table, it seems
  <popey> æ°æ¥å¿«ä¹ \o/
  <bigcalm> o.O
  * popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | "Where we're going, we don't need roads." | æ°æ¥å¿«ä¹
  <AlanBell> happy new year to you too
  <bigcalm> Ah
  <bigcalm> Googled it?
  <MartijnVdS> è¶ ?
  <bigcalm> Looks like a UFO
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's "tea"
  <bigcalm> I see
  <bigcalm> mmm, tea
  <AlanBell> it is a simplified form of æ¨
  <AlanBell> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%90
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: uhm.. I posted http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%8C%B6 you posted http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%A8%82
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: none of those is http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%90
  <AlanBell> so you did
  <MartijnVdS> oh wait, that's the last word in /topic
   * MartijnVdS is stupid
  <AlanBell> google translate doesn't do the last one, I thought thats what you were querying
  <MartijnVdS> no, I was saying "tea" :)
  <AlanBell> çç²
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: æª¸æª¬æ°´
  <oimon> join #ubuntu-jp
  <popey> cn
  <oimon> ah
  <oimon> chomps on a mandarin
  <MartijnVdS> poor man
   * popey fancies chinese for tea, bet they're all closed
  <popey> how dare they!
  <MartijnVdS> Chinese bank holiday? ;)
   * AlanBell has crispy duck in the freezer, might have to get one out
  <oimon> show it to the chickens
  <MartijnVdS> "Lay eggs or else.."
  <oimon> "that's what happens if you mess with me"
   * oimon was excused from the meeting, the stain was unrelated
  <MartijnVdS> oimon: "This is what happens to poultry that crosses an Alan"
   * TheOpenSourcerer just had yesterday's left-over homemade Chicken Dhansak, Saag Aloo, Basmati Rice and Naan :-D Sprinkled with a Bhut Jolokia to give it some kick.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> It was lovely. Even if I say so myself.
  <oimon> were you playing jelly botty?
   * daubers has almost finished the awesome Hackspace door authorisation system
  <daubers> \o/
  <Laney> rfid?
  <MartijnVdS> Oyster cards
  <MartijnVdS> ?
  <Laney> elaborate randomly generated maze
  <czajkowski> never leave home without one
  <Laney> sokoban
  <bigcalm> Knock 3 times?
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: nethack? :)
  <Laney> :-)
  <daubers> rfid cards
  <daubers> But I've built a rotating sign thing with GTK3 to have at the door so we can show what's going on and who's in the space \o/
  <daubers> all works with some mqtt based magic
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Oyster Card saved me a fortune in London travel
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: by not working?
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: nope worked fine
  <AlanBell> daubers: london hackspace lets you register oyster cards with the rfid reader
  <daubers> AlanBell: I know. We're doing it a bit different
  <daubers> More because we want people to have a token to show they're a member
  <AlanBell> ok
  <AlanBell> daubers: purely out of interest what is the approx cost of the rfid lock?
  <daubers> AlanBell: In total about Â£50-60 ish
  <daubers> That's for one unit
  <daubers> We're putting in 2, so is twice that (ish)
  <daubers> If we were making 100 it would be much much less :)
  <daubers> also would be cheaper if it was a standalone unit, and not networked
   * daubers makes some coffee
  <smittix> Gnome-Tweak-Tool really needs options for changing desktop font
   * daubers needs to figure out the best pay and go sim for a 3g dongle sending sms's once every few weeks
  <bigcalm> Sounds like a embedded security system
  <daubers> bigcalm: Ish, more for temperature/humidity monitoring. Want warnings on set levels
  <bigcalm> Ah
  <ahayzen> *** ahayzen changes theme and Pidgin crashes =-O
  <d3ngar> Hey
  <d3ngar> I seem to have a major problem with my laptop monitor: it doesn't show anything. It is connected and recognised though. Once Ubuntu boots, I can see stuff on the second screen
  <d3ngar> Any ideas?
  <directhex> d3ngar, at all? not even whilst booting?
  <d3ngar> The BIOS boot sequence is displayed fine
  <d3ngar> Everything thereafter is rubbish
  <d3ngar> Also, my system keep crashing because of a Kernel Module
  <d3ngar> dell_wmi
  <d3ngar> I don't know what it does, but I keep getting an error in dmesg
  <d3ngar> Can I somehow disable the module?
  <kvarley> "No caching mode page present" <--- I get that message on my netbook while doing an install from my SD card prepared by unetbootin. Any ideas?
  <christel> the ocado man looked exactly like AlanBell today!
  <christel> only he had a scottish accent
  <DJones> That could have been AlanMacBell
  <christel> hahaha
  <AlanBell> did he deliver some eggs?
  <czajkowski> christel: did you order 24 eggs
  <christel> haha
  <christel> he did deliver eggs!
  <christel> czajkowski: only 18!
  <christel> i didn't order ANY flour :p
  <popey> 18 eggs!
  <popey> blimey
  <bigcalm> o.O
  <czajkowski> ohh we're having pie tonight
  <d3ngar> How can I change the default kernel to load?
  <gord> eh, its not pie night
  <gord> its chinese night
  <popey> +1
  <christel> nooo it's ovenbaked rainbow trout night!
  <christel> with lots of yummy veg and herbs and creamy saucy goodness
  <gord> noo, its chinese night
   * gord looks at the day
  <gord> chinese new year for those that don't know ;)
   * popey points to the /topic
  <christel> oh fine, i'll give you that one! :P
  <christel> i will pretend that my trout is a dragon
  <Pendulum> christel: fish is apparently one of the favoured foods for Chinese New Year so I think you're fine not pretending it's a dragon ;)
  <christel> woop!
  <christel> :D
  <davmor2> christel: a fire breathing trout don't eat it become a T'interweb phenomenon
  <christel> haha
  <d3ngar> Is there a way of booting into an older version of the kernel?
  <Pendulum> christel: you could always teach David that trout is what a dragon is. Then he'll always believe dragons are real :)
  <christel> hahaha
  <davmor2> Pendulum: They are real don't tell me they're not I won't believe you :P
  <daubers> d3ngar: If your after an older kernal you've installed, you can just select if from the grub menu
  <gord> its absolutely fantastic that google chrome barfs out a bunch of annoying stuff on stdout, i love that, its not like i wanted to see anything in my terminal
  <popey> you run chrome from a terminal?
  <popey> don't you have some kind of launcher on your computer? :p
  <gord> yeah, but when you launch unity from a terminal, programs associate that terminal as their STDOUT
  <gord> so i get everything... very annoying
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Looks fun, and it's a British company behind it. http://www.evi.com/
  <gordonjcp> <grumble>
  <gordonjcp> well now I have a new reason to dislike CM7
  <Hornet-> waiting for CM9 tbh
  <Hornet-> or rather my touchpad is
  <gordonjcp> Hornet-: doubt it'll run on an HTC Desire ;-)
  <gordonjcp> but failing silently if you decide you don't like doing TLS any more isn't really acceptable behaviour
   * czajkowski hugs aquarius 
  <smittix> gah
  <smittix> bad day today.
  <smittix> Evening all
   * aquarius is hugged
  <czajkowski> aquarius: well you get a hug and a wallop, hug cause I'f found a way to entertain myself  and a wallop as there is a bug only you seem to know why it does such a thing!
  <bigcalm> aquarius: work place day this Thursday at the Light House :)
  <aquarius> bigcalm, ah, thursday's out. day of meetings
  <aquarius> what bug?
  <aquarius> czajkowski, ^
  <bigcalm> aquarius: poop
  <czajkowski> aquarius: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-music-store/+bug/910921
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 910921 in ubuntuone-music-store "downloading users paid music from system keeps bringing you back to page 1" [Undecided,New]
  <AlanBell> haggis day on wednesday
  <aquarius> czajkowski, right, yeah. Sorry. That one's my fault, but fixing it is hard-ish.
  <czajkowski> aquarius: *wallop*
  <czajkowski> do you have any idea how flipping annoying that is
  <czajkowski> I'd 10 pages to do of 10 songs, from page 2 onwards it gets irksome!
  <AlanBell> czajkowski: middle click the links
  <czajkowski> aquarius: the other irritation which nobody seems to understand why is when you click download a song you cant click all 10 on a page to start to redownload it doesnt recognise
  <czajkowski> aquarius: on a track pad
  <gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/corruptfont.jpg
  <AlanBell> left and right click together should do a middle click
  <gordonjcp> ^^ hmmm
  <czajkowski> gordonjcp: what kernel are you running ?
  <gordonjcp> Linux saito 3.0.0-12-generic #20-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 7 14:50:42 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
  <gordonjcp> I can't actually read that now so hopefully it'll make sense to you
  <AlanBell> 13:03 < Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/errrr.png
  <czajkowski> Linux sheldon 3.2.0-9-generic #16-Ubuntu SMP Fri Jan 13 20:46:38 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
  <czajkowski> gordonjcp: so upgrading to that kernel removes that issue
  <gordonjcp> czajkowski: I'm going to have to bounce X to read that ;-)
  <aquarius> czajkowski, mainly because I never implemented that; having to redownload is meant to be very rare, so I didn't think about it needing to poke lots all at once
  <aquarius> czajkowski, do not middle click the links. Ignore AlanBell on this.
  <czajkowski> I'm unique :)
  <AlanBell> aquarius: I have every confidence I will be ignored ;)
  <AlanBell> seems to work for me though, I get lots of file downloads starting. I don't have two pages of music though
  <AlanBell> actually I am probably not understanding the problem
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: when I go past page 1 I get thrown bac to page 1 each time after I hit the download button
  <czajkowski> aquarius: can you at leas tack the bug exists :)
  <czajkowski> so I know I'm not going insane
  <AlanBell> yeah, I don't see how you have pages of music, I have to drill down by artist and cd title
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: music I've bought
  <AlanBell> under the files tab?
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: under bought/purchased music
  <popey> why are you visiting that page czajkowski ?
  <AlanBell> https://one.ubuntu.com/files/ I have a "Purchased Music" link there, but I think you are talking about something else
  <czajkowski> via banshee I am
  <popey> the bug isnt clear
  <AlanBell> aaaahhhhh
  <czajkowski> popey: I may ahve delete all my purchased music so trying to redownload them
  <popey> you dont mention banshee at all
  <czajkowski> true I had been discussing it hte last day in u1 channel so did leave that bit out in the bug my bad
  <AlanBell> that will be why I am giving you crap advice about middle clicking things
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: tis ok my fault for not being clearer to you
  <daubers> Evening
  <gordonjcp> czajkowski: are you on 12.04?
   * AlanBell hugs czajkowski, not your fault at all!
  <Azelphur> Dam, Orange are really good at pulling out budget android phones
  <Azelphur> San francisco 2 looks pretty decent :o
  <Azelphur> the first version was always my recommended budget one, but the new one is the same price and just seems all round better :D
  <czajkowski> gordonjcp: yes
  <gordonjcp> czajkowski: ah, I'm using 11.10
  <gordonjcp> czajkowski: I tried 12.04 but it was worse, and my machine hasn't really got a high enough spec for 12.04
   * daubers tries the DVD writing thing again
  <czajkowski> gordonjcp: bummer
  <gordonjcp> I stuck two gig in it and it ran at somewhat less than 100% memory usage and about 50% swap usage
  <gordonjcp> but the graphics corruption was worse than even in the link I posted
  <AlanBell> gordonjcp: looks more like the font corruption Laney had than graphics corruption
  <AlanBell> except for the black blocks on the far right border
  <kvarley> I formatted my sd card to ext4 via gparted. Now it won't let me write/delete files/folders unless I am root. How can I change it so that anybody can change the stuff on there?
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's a bit of both
  <AlanBell> kvarley: if you create a folder as root you can then chown it to your regular user
  <kvarley> AlanBell: I did chmod -R 777 and it seems to have worked
  <kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks though, I shall bear that in mind for future cards =]
  <AlanBell> 777 is probably not a good thing
   * AlanBell frowns at octal permissions
  <hamitron> AlanBell, what would you use?
  <AlanBell> hamitron: well maybe chmod ug+rw or something
  <hamitron> would that be the same as 660?
  <AlanBell> point being I don't like people talking about 777 or 644 or whatever because lots of people see that withough having the first clue what it means in terms of user group other / read write execute
  <hamitron> I only know the octal form, is why i asked
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> I think the way you say is probably clearer and better to explain
  <AlanBell> 110 in binary is 6 in octal, but a heap of people don't know that and don't know that it is turning on r and w and off x
  <Azelphur> yea, I tend to always use the letters it makes more sense / is human readable
  <AlanBell> you get people saying "I just set everything to 777 and all my permissions problems went away"
  <Azelphur> haha
  <hamitron> I tend to use 644 or 755
  <hamitron> but I remember reading a chapter on permissions in my first book on linux
  <hamitron> :)
  <Azelphur> On my desktop I don't really care too much as I'm the only user
  <AlanBell> sure, and by all means use octal yourself
  <Azelphur> On my server, I give it a seconds thought as to who should have access
  <AlanBell> just when explaining to other people I would always use the letters
  <hamitron> AlanBell, I will, just never thought about how it looks to someone else
  <Azelphur> when someone asks me about permissions I usually just explain how to read the output from ls -l
  <Azelphur> and then it becomes pretty obvious what's going on
  <AlanBell> yes
  <AlanBell> and then chmod ug=rwx or whatever actually ties up with that
  <hamitron> isn't there a way to do it in the GUI?
  <AlanBell> yes, if you have permissions to do it
  <AlanBell> then we get into running nautilus as root ;)
  <hamitron> :/
  <AlanBell> now what should I get from the Chinese for dinner?
  <hamitron> chips!
  <AlanBell> philistine
  <TheOpenSourcerer> curry :-D
  <hamitron> hehe
  <hamitron> I got chicken and chips once.... well, it was called that
  <hamitron> chicken was really balls of rubber
  <AlanBell> ribs with salt and chilli and plain noodles are a given, but what main dish I wonder
  <AlanBell> beef in chilli oyster sauce perhaps
  <hamitron> isn't chinky food expensive for what you get where you are?
  <hamitron> the helpings look so small
  <hamitron> :/
  <AlanBell> chinky isn't a nice word hamitron
  <hamitron> hmmm, sorry
  <AlanBell> just ordered it, Â£21.15 for two people
  <hamitron> that is my point
  <hamitron> ;/
  <AlanBell> but it is yummy
  <hamitron> fish chips and mushy peas for Â£2.20
  <monsterwizard> Do you think video and image editing should be done in media or art class
  <monsterwizard> and NOT ICT
  <hamitron> media I'd say
  <AlanBell> that was the problem with sticking that C in the middle of IT
  <hamitron> but I'd say it is nearer to ICT than something like Art
  <monsterwizard> Screw it
  <monsterwizard> Just teach Computer Science
  <hamitron> I'd just not teach it tbh
  <hamitron> well, only to those that choose it
  <monsterwizard> And perhaps teach spreedsheets in maths or accounting
  <hamitron> I actually used spreadsheets most in science
  <hamitron> if you start adding computers into Maths, you end up with people who can't add up :/
  <monsterwizard> If I were in charge, I'd teach python or something similar. Get students used to other operating systems. And I'd teach Basic csa.
  <monsterwizard> Computer Science concepts are perhaps best left for the maths classroom
  <hamitron> why not C?
  <hamitron> ;/
  <hamitron> a proper language
  <hamitron> or pascal maybe for the kids
  <monsterwizard> C maybe too complicated for people who don't want to in School
  <monsterwizard> pascal?
  <monsterwizard> mmmmm Python is more relevant.
  <monsterwizard> And good at teaching the basics. Perhaps getting to algorithms sooner
  <hamitron> I've never used Python for anything worthwhile
  <hamitron> ;)
  <monsterwizard> C maybe for A-level students
  <hamitron> tbh, do we really need all these programmers?
  <monsterwizard> No but we need more of them :P
  <monsterwizard> Surely people should know the basics
  <monsterwizard> Considering computers are so important.
  <hamitron> most people I know don't know how to word process
  <hamitron> ;)
  <monsterwizard> It's not the intention to make people into programmers.
  <hamitron> I'd say they need to learn to type a letter, before program
  <hamitron> and the younger generation who write letters to me for work, don't know how to spell
  <hamitron> heck, most can't even talk English without some misuse of some word that totally throws me
  <hamitron> "sick init?" ;/
  <monsterwizard> Haha.
  <monsterwizard> Slang.
  <monsterwizard> Language evolves :P
  <hamitron> sick = bad
  <hamitron> or now it = good?
  <monsterwizard> Depends on he context.
   * hamitron facedesk
  <monsterwizard> Sick can mean good.
  <hamitron> how?
  <monsterwizard> For example, "Aww that football mathc was sick"
  <monsterwizard> Sick could mean, awesome, good, cool.
  <hamitron> that is just wrong
  <monsterwizard> Slang?
  <monsterwizard> Come onnnn.
  <hamitron> it sounds wrong, is wrong and always will be wrong
  <hamitron> ;)
  <monsterwizard> Nope.
  <monsterwizard> The English spoken 500 years ago, is that wrong too?
  <monsterwizard> Or is the English we'e using now 'more wrong'.
  <monsterwizard> we're*
  <hamitron> I am always right, whenever asked.... so yes ;D
  <monsterwizard> :/
  <monsterwizard> Well I'm very sorry to hear that.
  <hamitron> but seriously, I have actually misunderstood people using "sick" wrongly
  <hamitron> "that was sick" ..... just confusing
  <hamitron> someone crapping their pants is sick, not good
  <hamitron> ;/
  <monsterwizard> Sick can mean bad also
  <hamitron> so it means nothing now
  <monsterwizard> "That was just sick"
  <hamitron> :/
  <monsterwizard> You should speak to different types of people I think.
  <hamitron> well, anyone who speaks stupid won't work with me for long
  <hamitron> communication is a key part to things working smoothly
  <monsterwizard> Haha.
  <shauno> I don't have a problem with slang so much; language does change.  I just find it very difficult to work with people who can't tone it down when it's not the time/place for it
  <monsterwizard> I'd recommend adapting to peoples use of speech
  <monsterwizard> I don't mind doing tha
  <hamitron> I get told off weekly in here, for language I use
  <hamitron> :/
  <hamitron> but people are weird here ;)
  <monsterwizard> I don't get it. Why don't you adapt to slang?
  <hamitron> I don't hear it
  <hamitron> or at least very rarely
  <monsterwizard> :(
  <monsterwizard> Where are you from?
  <hamitron> East Yorkshire
  <hamitron> but my clients are all older
  <monsterwizard> Oh come on.
  <monsterwizard> Yorkshire people are the worst for this :P
  <monsterwizard> How about local slang.
  <hamitron> local slang is normal and makes sense
  <popey> trolololololol
  <hamitron> all this black rapper stuff is just, weird :/
  <monsterwizard> lmao
  <hamitron> I give up with it \o/
  <monsterwizard> So you own a business?
  <monsterwizard> or at least in managment
  <hamitron> yep, and work for another also
  <ali1234> does the guest session thing automatically clear all the cached stuff when you log out?
  <Laney> did holmes go down?
  <popey> ali1234: yes, it has a home directory in /tmp which gets deleted
  <ali1234> cool
  <Laney> holmes[.freenode.net]
  <jacobw> quit
  <jacobw> :p
   * popey hugs directhex for http://rosskempfolds.tumblr.com/
  <czajkowski> lol
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Nicholas Skaggs QA Blog - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/23/nicholas-skaggs-qa-blog/
  <czajkowski> http://abstract.desktopnexus.com/cat/other/
  <bigcalm> There's a lot of poop in there
  <czajkowski> http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/769931/  massive selection
  <gordonjcp> anyone got contact details for Andy Stanford-Clark?
  <gordonjcp> he's apparently in search of food in Glasgow
  <czajkowski> tweet him ?
  <czajkowski> ah you did
  <bigcalm> Cow Bride?!
  <czajkowski> blame jon
  <ali1234> i don't understand this benefits cap thing
  <ali1234> specifically i don't understand the table at the bottom of this page:
  <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16675314
  <ali1234> i don't understand how two people can get Â£133.91 a week JSA
  <ali1234> and i also don't understand how you could get tax credit when you are unemployed and therefore don't pay any tax
  <Azelphur> ali1234: thats very high, are you sure that's right?
  <ali1234> no i'm not sure
  <ali1234> like i said, i don't understand it
  <Azelphur> I'm on ESA which is the disabled equiv and I get like Â£55?
  <ali1234> basically i don't understand how any household can get Â£500 a week in benefits unless they have 20 kids are both parents have absolutely crippling disabilities eg they are both deaf and blind and quadraplegic
  <jimmie> Possibly a bit of an odd question but does anyone here play Minecraft? Im having trouble with something on 11.10
  <ali1234> and i don't mean  i don't understand it in a daily mail sort of way
  <Azelphur> yea that's crazy
  <ali1234> i mean i don't understand how it is possible under the existing benefits system, after careful study of it
  <ali1234> jimmie: yeah loads of us do
  <Azelphur> jimmie: I play minecraft and run a big server all on Ubuntu
  <jimmie> Perfect
  <Azelphur> XUbuntu 11.10 desktop, Ubuntu 11.10 Server :)
  <jimmie> Well, I installed it using a Minecraft installer script, and I dont believe I have a minecraft folder.
  <ali1234> bleeeeeeh
  <jimmie> Not sure if that happens as a result of the script or im insane
  <ali1234> dont use that script, it is silly and messes up your java
  <Azelphur> and pointless lol
  <Azelphur> ali1234: what does it do, install sun? :/
  <jimmie> I had ho. Since thewebsite was down the other day so I couldnt get the jar
  <ali1234> yeah and set it as default
  <jimmie> But the script managed to get it.
  <Azelphur> ugh
  <ali1234> what i do is this
  <jimmie> Ill try it again
  <jimmie> Ho-hum
  <ali1234> get the jar, and then run it java -jar minecraft.jar
  <ali1234> then quit minecraft
  <ali1234> then i put the jar file into ~/.minecraft/
  <Azelphur> ali1234: great minds, did exactly the same thing
  <ali1234> whenever i play i just run it from the terminal
  <Azelphur> I have a launcher
  <ali1234> also, install optifine
  <jimmie> optifine
  <ali1234> it makes it run much faster
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <jimmie> ?
  <ali1234> it's a mod
  <ali1234> Azelphur: does your launcher work properly?
  <ali1234> cos mine doesn't
  <Azelphur> yep
  <ali1234> unity cannot differentiate java programs
  <ali1234> wait you don't use unity
  <Azelphur> :D
  <Azelphur> hmm there was some router from buffalo everyone recommended as a nice dd-wrt box
  <ali1234> i have a DGND3700 now
  <ali1234> expensive but amazing
  <ali1234> the gbit ports actually work at full speed
  <Azelphur> yea, I have a WRT610N which is much the same, my friend wants a cheapo one
  <ali1234> and it does both ADSL and external modem
  <ali1234> WRT610N is i think the same thing but without ADSL
  <Azelphur> yea :)
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-24
  <Myrtti> oh look
  <Myrtti> it's a wild ivanka
  <Azelphur> ali1234: just set up my server so that I have apache for my PHP stuff, and nginx to serve the large static files :D
  <ivanka> Myrtti: only sometimes.
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] From Old To New Python GTK - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/24/from-old-to-new-python-gtk/
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <Pendulum> hiya MooDoo
  <MooDoo> @_
  <MooDoo> :)
  <AlanBell> hi Pendulum who should be asleep
  <popey> AlanBell: http://bartaz.github.com/impress.js
  <popey> via Daviey
  <AlanBell> nice
  <daubers> Morning
  <DJones> AlanBell: Just noticed this, quite interesting http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/news/extremadura-move-all-its-40000-desktops-open-source
  <danfish> morning all - a bit damp out today
   * TheOpenSourcerer goes to check if any of his seed has germinated yet.
  <danfish> chili planting time already!
  <smittix> morning all
  <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Indeed. Gone a bit mad this year: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/01/21/ot-chillies-2012/
  <smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: It's not Hemp is it heh
  <TheOpenSourcerer> smittix: Nope something far stronger than that!
  <smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: Ghost Chillies?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah, I have 4 Naga (Ghost type) varieties.
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Naga ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Black Naga, Bhut Jolokia, Dorset Naga & Naga Viper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhut_Jolokia_chili_pepper
  <MartijnVdS> "While all naga corpses convey poison resistance when eaten, black naga corpses are also acidic."
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: yikes! I've not even ordered seed yet!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm a week earlier this year, but have for the last 2 years started them at the end of Jan.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Sown in pots some of the seed will take 4-6 weeks even to germinate.
  <danfish> I am going to concentrate a bit more on crops in open ground this year
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Using my "how-I-used-grow-hemp" technique I'm getting good germination rates in around 1 - 2 weeks.
  <danfish> ah, home grown hemp for clothing of course ;)
  <MartijnVdS> Why is it that all people I know who grow pepper got started with hemp first
  <MartijnVdS> ;)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Already planted Garlic and Eschalotte in Nov. And just planted some Jermor (banana shallots this weekend.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> First early spuds are chitting too :-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Along with the Naga, I also have the Trinidad Scorpion "Butch T" this year - The current world's hottest chilli. :-D
  <oimon> adverse weather conditions
  <smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: Nice, I need to get round to planting some.
  <daubers> gtk3 question (as it's a PITA): How can I force a gtk window to refresh? I've been using a while Gtk.events_pending(): Gtk.main_iteration() type loop, but this seems to randomly not work at times. I remember seeing something about another way of doing this? Does anyone have a clue what that might have been?
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: ask aquarius, he's a GTK Guru
  <JamesTait> G'mornin' all! :D
  <MartijnVdS> Good morning!
  <daubers> GTK makes me a sad panda sometimes
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: what with the gothic make-up and everything?
  <daubers> Hah! No
  <dwatkins> hi folks
  <daubers> bah, add a print to it and it works
  <dwatkins> haha "hastebin.com" - pastebin without the rest of the UI
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <bigcalm> Morning :)
  <christel> morning lovelies
  <occupy64k> goog morning
  <occupy64k> or good
  <funkyHat> Hi christel â¢)
  <christel> hai hai :D
  <funkyHat> I'm not sure I like this being awake in the morning nonsense
  <christel> haha
  <andylock1an> morning guys - anyone used Synology NAS Solutions? I want a low-maintenance device rather than building something myself - as I'm not here at Linux Admin.
  <gord> everything time i use google docs i get frustrated. just have to keep reminding myself, at least its not open office
  <andylock1an> gord: amen to that
  <occupy64k> are google docs that bad?
  <funkyHat> Use LaTeX ;)
  <gord> google docs would be fine, if it wasn't glitchy
  <gord> i've had it suddenly just insert the html of the google docs page into the document before
  <occupy64k> maybe that's a feature
  <funkyHat> gord: google hates you
  <gord> up until recently using it with a corporate account when you also had a gmail account was a nightmare too. had to use an entirely different browser
  <occupy64k> Just use Emacs org mode
  <daubers> GAHHHHHHHHHHHH
  <daubers> GTK sucks
  <daubers> Why the hell doesn't it tell me if the mainloop can't run?
  <gord> why wouldn't the mainloop be able to run?
  <gord> if its being blocked by something, then there isn't much it can do about it
  <daubers> I don't know? It just stops responding!
  <gord> well see there is your problem, something else is blocking the mainloop from running, the mainloop code can't get called because of this other thing. the other thing is your problem, not the mainloop
  <daubers> I'd also love to know why it doesn't redraw things a lot of the time
  <gord> it sounds like a poorly constructed application ;)
  <daubers> :p
  <daubers> Would be less poorly constructed if there where some adequate docs for gtk3
  <gord> well gtk2 applies in most cases, apart from the nitty gritty stuff
  <gord> the actually drawing code for example
  <daubers> which  seems to be where I get all the stupid issues
  <daubers> I'd love to know what gtk_list_store_iter_next: assertion `priv->stamp == iter->stamp' failed means too
  <gord> sounds like you are modifying a list model whist iterating over it (bad idea)
  <daubers> Urgh
  <daubers> Nothings ever simple is it :)
  <daubers> So is the recommended way to create a second list without the thing you want to remove in it and then switch them?
  <gord> its been a loooooooooong time (years unfortunately :((( ) since i worked with gtk list models, but iirc, you should be able to remove by iter
  <gord> so find the iter, break out, remove by iter
   * daubers waits to see if that broke anything else
  <daubers> \o/
  <daubers> something else broke
  <daubers> gord: Ta, shall have to shout at it some more
  <gord> np. i kinda miss gtk programming, a lot of people don't really know how to use it anymore and gnome has everyone all confused. you can make really nice stuff with it if you bend it to your will ;)
  <daubers> turns out its my loops that wait for stuff to redraw
  <gord> ah ;) mainloops don't like you doing that - use signals and timeouts
  <gordonjcp> gord: yeah
  <daubers> gord: Can't find any docs on them annoyingly. Was trying too earlier
  <gordonjcp> gord: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/lysdr.jpg
  <daubers> gord: https://code.launchpad.net/~daubers/+junk/rdghackauthbot is what I'm screaming at today
   * MartijnVdS would never accept commit messages like that ;)
  <daubers> MartijnVdS: The "moar stuffs" message?
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: and "arduino stuff"
  <MartijnVdS> "more work"
  <MartijnVdS> "a few more functions added"
  <daubers> MartijnVdS: You can tell I'm doing this for me can't you :)
  <MartijnVdS> :)
  <Laney> argh
  <Laney> why can't I get into the habit of using 'less' instead of 'more'?
  <MartijnVdS> alias more=less
  <daubers> Laney: because less is more?
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: because you're old and inflexible?
  <Laney> i don't want to fix it with an alias that has to be done on every machine
  <jpds> Laney: sudo apt-get install most
  <Laney> daubers: if less is more then i shouldn't have any trouble transitioning :(
  <Laney> jpds: hah
  <AlanBell> !info most
  <lubotu3> most (source: most): Pager program similar to more and less. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.0a-2 (oneiric), package size 46 kB, installed size 168 kB
  <AlanBell> is it good?
  <daubers> !good
  <lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
  <jpds> AlanBell: Only one way to find out.
  <AlanBell> it *is* good :)
  <AlanBell> alias less=most
  <Laney> it doesn't let me press end to go to the end
  <kvarley> You know when you press up in gnome-terminal? Where are the previously run commands stored?
  <LjL> kvarley: ~/.bash_history
  <kvarley> LjL: thanks
  <LjL> kvarley: you can also type "history" to see the list, or use ctrl+r to search in the list on the fly
  <Laney> well, $HISTFILE
  <jpds> kvarley: echo $HISTFILE
  <jpds> Not all of us use bash.
  <LjL> another shell might not even have history at all, i talk about the defaults, especially when someone doesn't specify and says something like "press up in gnome-terminal"
  <popey> +1
  <jpds> default --- anything that is not your fault. ;)
  <kvarley> I am using bash. =] I'm yet to try zsh
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <daubers> urgh..... realised that to make this work I need to get my mqtt stuff into a function I that GTK can call while it's idle instead of a running it as a thread
  <oimon> i notice redhat are making more bugs "private" so that those without paid support cannot see the bugs or KB articles referred to
  <daubers> \o/ fixed it
  <davmor2> morning all
  <popey> hmm, firefox 10 seems to have opengl disabled on 12.04
  <popey> maybe just my laptop
  <daubers> gord: Ta muchly for the tips. Stripped out all the threads and done it as idle functions now :)
  <popey> about:support under graphics I have GPU Accelerated Windows 0/1
  <popey> â¹
  <danfish> cd /usr/src/
  <davmor2> popey: is it not a plugin?
  <popey> dont think so
  <danfish> oops
  <popey> hmm, mozilla blog post says they dont plan on enabling it on linux
  <gord> i enabled it on firefox once, wasn't any faster and made bad stuff happen to the rest of the stack, not a fun experience
  <popey> hah
  <oimon> i'm getting "kernel: swapper: page allocation failure. order:1, mode:0x20". apparently i'm running out of low memory - anyone understand what's happening?
  <popey> oh well look at that, it just works in chrome
  <AlanBell> popey: the impress.js thing?
  <popey> yeah
  <AlanBell> works for me in firefox on 12.04
  <popey> it works
  <AlanBell> way smoother in chrome
  <popey> but 1fps
  <popey> its doing software rendering in frefox
  <ali12345> Doh
  <ali12345> Autojoin :/
  <davmor2> hmmmmmmm tis a happy day now that lp has reordering on bugs especially the age fields :D
  <ali12345> Cool. I remember listening to the uds stream about that
  <davmor2> popey: is that using the latest X?  today had an update for it
   * czajkowski hugs davmor2 Good day! 
  <popey> davmor2: its not x, its firefox
  <popey> AIUI
  <davmor2> czajkowski: proddington prod
  <davmor2> popey: no just checking that it was a driver issue with the latest X or something
  <popey> dont think so
  <davmor2> what's the URL I'll try it here I have a couple of precise boxes knocking about
  <davmor2> as you do
  <popey> http://github.com/bartaz/impress.js
  <davmor2> popey: and have you tried it in another browser epiphany or chrome/chromium or rekonq
  <popey> yes, as I said, it works fine in chrome
  <davmor2> popey: it's working but not as smoothly as it could I think,  I'm using the demo at, bartaz.github.com/impress.js/#/bored
  <popey> yes, that is the issue
  <popey> 3d rendering is disabled in firefox by default on linux
  <popey> (it seems)
  <oimon> which ff you using popey?
  <popey> 10
  <popey> in 12.04
  <ali12345> Popey: did you see my question re screencast?
  <popey> i didnt
  <ali12345> You mentioned somewhere that nvidia is choppy and nouveax is faster
  <popey> hmm
  <popey> maybe in the past..
  <ali12345> But you did a screencast of minecraft
  <popey> i have multiple machines, one nvidia, one intel
  <ali12345> Which crashes everytime wth nouveau for me
  <popey> most recently minecraft ones have been on intel i7
  <davmor2> popey: about:config see if you can enable it
  <popey> davmor2: i have
  <ali12345> Minecraft works on intel now?
  <davmor2> popey: any better now?
  <oimon> yeah, sucks a bundle on this precise box
  <popey> davmor2: no,
  <ali12345> Anyway, the situation is still poor re screencasting and nvidia
  <popey> ali12345: works okay, better than it did, but still has graphical artifacts here ansd there
  <popey> yeah
  <popey> kazam is coming along nicely, but still has issues with flicker and that stupid drop shadow
  <ali12345> Yeah its a driver issue though imo
  <popey> i spoke to the kernel guys and they laughed at me
  <popey> 'oh, you bought intel on a tick ,you should have waited for a tock'
  <popey> â¹
  <ali12345> Never had much trouble wth the drop shadows tho
  <AlanBell> so the stupid dropshadow, is that part of the background?
  <popey> no
  <popey> its drawn on top of everything
  <popey> it's a png file
  <popey> I ususally rm it
  <popey> looks like a stacking bug
  <ali12345> Someone finally fixed the interlace bug in intel driver
  <ali12345> Now that nobody has an interlace tv any more
  <AlanBell> it looks daft when you zoom in to the desktop and the shadow gets detached from the top bar
   * AlanBell pops to the shops to get a haggis
  <ali12345> How do you zoom? enable ezoom in ccsm?
  <danfish> AlanBell: did you order a male or female haggis?
  <czajkowski> danfish: England V Ireland Saturday 17th March 2012 17:00 Gonna be a epic way to celebrte paddys day!
  <danfish> czajkowski: absolutely! Don't be too upset when we beat your lot to a pulp ;)
  <czajkowski> danfish: see folks said that and were very upset last year in the pub
  <danfish> hehe - I wonder who you are talking about :)
  <czajkowski> poor TheOpenSourcerer
   * TheOpenSourcerer is being completely silent on the matter.
  <oimon> i wonder why google don't wanna open source picasa?
  <oimon> such a pain getting v3.9 installed
  <popey> maybe they do, but can't
  <oimon> yeah, would be nice to hear something about it from the goog
  <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: danfish any predictions for the coming season?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> (12:20:32) ***TheOpenSourcerer is being completely silent on the matter.
  <czajkowski> :)
  <czajkowski> ok
   * daubers predicts a large number of people will get grumpy at a large number of other people
  <daubers> Though that applies to any sport really
  <AlanBell> danfish: the more deadly female kind
  <AlanBell> also found out some fun gender related information about sleeping bags
  <AlanBell> I was looking in Millets for some kids sleeping bags and asked what the difference was between the model 200 and 200w
  <AlanBell> turns out the 200w is a womens sleeping bag - which I expressed some surprise that there was any difference. You can also get them in "left" and "right" which is the side the zip goes
  <AlanBell> and you can zip together a 200w to another 200w, or a 200 to a 200, but you can't zip a 200 to a 200w
  <popey> whats the difference?
  <hamitron> gender of the zip?
  <AlanBell> the 200w is 20cm shorter
  <oimon> the 200w steals the covers from the 200 in the night
  <hamitron> hehe
  <oimon> and denies it
  <Myrtti> left and right atleast in Finnish ones mean that if you've got one each you can zip them together and make one big *double* sleeping bag
  <AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, thats what it means on these ones
  <TheOpenSourcerer> ^^--^^ Ewww. Can't imagine why anyone would want to do *that*
   * AlanBell draws TheOpenSourcerer a diagram
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <TheOpenSourcerer> imagebin it :-) AlanBell
  <hamitron> tent has pole in the middle :/
  <kvarley> Anybody know of any applications to test the performance of flash memory? (microSDHC, etc)
  <oimon> double sleeping bag is like sleeping with a 5ft hot water bottle = nice
  <davmor2> czajkowski: what with a 24-6 win to England :P
  <czajkowski> davmor2: :)
  <czajkowski> davmor2: go see pm :)
  <czajkowski> and behave
  <davmor2> czajkowski: NO! :P
  <hamitron> kvarley, I wouldn't test write performance.... could shorten the life of it
  <diplo> afternoon all
  <gord> https://plus.google.com/112811220238447511854/posts/XWYJQhYATdG *cough* http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ *cough*
  <gord> such a bad *cough* today - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus *splutter*
   * AlanBell prepares to slap gord if it doesn't work with orca
  <AlanBell> but it does look pretty
  <gord> i may have completely forgotten about orca ;) i'll make sure its fixed and talk to the qa guys about integrating orca into the tests
  <Mez_> Great fun - I've been tasked with "work out something for the team to do for a day that can be used to show an iterative agile process.  Something like a paper airplane, but something that the whole team can work on).
  <Mez_> Anyone have any ideas?
   * AlanBell gets out a haddock and slaps gord round the face with it
  <AlanBell> it looks like a great idea gord, I can see this being quite popular
  <davmor2> AlanBell, gord: I can see people who hate unity crying into hankies now, me on the other hand I think it's cool :)
  <AlanBell> lol at the windows adverts in the video
  <AlanBell> ooooh to hudCLI
  <AlanBell> gord: so when is it landing in precise?
  <gord> AlanBell, next unity release is next week, so if everything goes well, then
  <czajkowski> gord: you work on funky stuff
  <TheOpenSourcerer> That looks quite cool. Might make unity more [ahem] usable. I especially liked the hud-cli. Neat
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lol "EMACS users just grunt andâ¦ nevermind"
  <Myrtti> Mez: spaghtti and marshmellows
  <Mez> Myrtti: not sure that'd take them all dya.
  <Myrtti> Mez: real life Angry Birds then
  <Mez> Not too sure the RSPCA would like that :P
  <Myrtti> "build the best trebuchet you can. success of the team is measured by the strength, beauty and performance of the device in use of hurling stuffed Angry Birds toys"
  <Myrtti> available material: wooden sticks, rubberbands, hot glue, sellotape, paperclips
  <Myrtti> etc.
  <AlanBell> and number of pigs destroyed
  <Myrtti> or distance of birds traveled
  <Mez> YeahYeah - thats where your first comment had me going.  Nott too sure whether we'd have the materials ... but could be done.
   * bigcalm expects a live demonstration from gord on Thursday :P
  <czajkowski> gord: when are you coming down here
  <Mez> bigcalm: it's for friday.
  <Mez> It's actually more for the product owner than anyone else.
  <gord> czajkowski, here? where is here?
  <czajkowski> see I'm getting the lingo right, everything north of London is NORTH :)
  <czajkowski> gord: London
  <TheOpenSourcerer> gord, what triggers the hud to appear? I would like it to be when I cough in a particular way.
  <czajkowski> right beside the London eye
  <gord> czajkowski, ah, no no. not if i can avoid it. trip to london means 5am get up and not home till 9pm
  <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: if your cough is enough to press the alt button then I think it should work
  <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, tapping alt
  <czajkowski> gord: stay over!
  <AlanBell> gord: when the 350MB of updates today installs I should have the hud from the PPA
  <czajkowski> just doing an update
  <czajkowski> may not have been wise considering I want a working machine in 30 mins
  <popey> 14:26:20 < czajkowski> gord: when are you coming down here
  <popey> it's "up here", always 'up' towards the capital city
  <popey> even if you're going north
  <czajkowski> very confusing
  <czajkowski> :/
  <popey> heh
   * czajkowski goes back to her books to get the lingo right
   * gord questions popey's reasoning
  <popey> s/north/south/
  <popey> :D
  <czajkowski> anyone going to FOSDEM - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2012
   * oimon reads shuttleworths post. unity is becoming a concept OS!
  <oimon> interestingly not a tablet friendly idea.
  <AlanBell> it is perhaps a fairly significant thing to be dropping into the LTS at this stage
  <gord> oimon, well, until voice recognition is hooked up
  <DJones> I'm just looking at this http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus
  <AlanBell> gord: is that the plan (it would work quite well actually)
  <oimon> i like this idea though, rather clever
  <daubers> I'm quite intrigued to try the hud thing. Think it's one of those things that looks a bit odd till you try it
  <gord> AlanBell, yeah, eventually. not soon
  <Laney> does it offer a way to explore a program's capabilities?
  <AlanBell> it has the menu content already, that could be made into a grammar table on the fly for pocketsphinx to look at
  <oimon> does it make heavy use of zeitgeist?
  <hamitron> what if you don't know the name of the app?
  <gord> oimon, doesn't touch zeitgeist, what would zeitgeist have to use?
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: so the future of the Unity GUI is in fact the command line?
  <popey> âº
  <AlanBell> so it seems gordonjcp
   * hamitron moves to xterm
  <popey> hamitron: hud isnt for apps, its for menus
  <hamitron> menus?
  <popey> yes, menus
  <hamitron> how you get the menu with apps?
   * popey notes hamitron probably hasn't read the article
  <hamitron> I have sort of
  <popey> ok, I'll stop talking till you have
  <czajkowski> heh
  <popey> 38
  <popey> BAH!
  <hamitron> so what would you type to insert a spreadsheet?
  <hamitron> popey, I mis-read the first time
  <hamitron> ;/
  <davmor2> gord: when does that hit 12.04?
  <gord> davmor2, next week
  <AlanBell> gord: have you looked at creating jsgf files from the menu content?
  <davmor2> gord: you can give me a demo on thursday then :)
  <hamitron> the worst thing I can see about 12.04, too many changes from 10.04 for users to get used to
  <gord> AlanBell, nope, but you should talk to tedg if you have ideas there
  <hamitron> be almost like the jump I had from Windows 2000 to Windows 7
  <AlanBell> hamitron: well they still have a year to think about it
  <hamitron> true
  <hamitron> just thinking, staff training, etc
  <hamitron> like, I still hate the new windows 7 menu
  <oimon> xfce is similar to gnome2 in 10.04
  <oimon> not too hard to include that option
  <gord> you can set the windows 7 menu to be "classic" can't you?
  <gord> i think i remember doing that
  <hamitron> gord, no
  <hamitron> you could in vista
  <gord> ah
  <hamitron> tbh, it wasn't such a big jump from XP
  <hamitron> but I was from 2000
  <hamitron> and I'm probably the sort of person who doesn't like change so much
  <hamitron> :)
  <gord> i can imagine - though weirdly xp -> vista is a larger jump than xp->7
  <hamitron> I never used XP much
  <hamitron> when i did, set it on classic menu
  <hamitron> I will ofc try the next ubuntu
  <hamitron> but just got a bad feeling, I won't be happy
  <hamitron> dunno how unity works yet
  <hamitron> suppose could maybe use LXDE
  <oimon> lxde is quite like winxp
  <hamitron> it is?
  <hamitron> I'd compared it more to win95
  <directhex> <hamitron> the worst thing I can see about 12.04, too many changes from 10.04 for users to get used to <-- i am dreading this for my users
  <hamitron> yeh, be worse when you are in charge of them
  <hamitron> at least I can tweak stuff for personal use
  <oimon> mind you , when i upgraded my users to RHEL6, nobody complained about KDE4
  <oimon> and it's the buggy 4.3.x version they use
  <hamitron> how does Unity compare to Gnome2 and KDE?
  <hamitron> is it easy to "pick up"?
  <oimon> hamitron: where have you been?
  <popey> for newbs, totally
  <oimon> try a live cd :D
  <directhex> in my testing, unity has been easier for gnome2 users than shell
  <hamitron> live cd are a large download
  <directhex> but the HUD thing changes matters
  <hamitron> ;/
  <hamitron> most machines here had a vista license, so just moved them onto that
  <hamitron> so no rush
  <oimon> i've never seen a machine than vista works on
  <hamitron> seems ok so far
  <oimon> except my dad's laptop. all others slow to crawl and disk is thrashing, and is unusable (literally)
  <hamitron> oh dear
  <hamitron> well, ok so far
  <hamitron> :)
  <hamitron> my main worry, they only have 2Gb ram
  <awilkins> gord: I see in that HUD screenshot, the normal menu isn't there - there is room for it, did you decide not to present it in the top bar of the HUD (or HUM - Head Up Menu) when you open it?
  <gord> awilkins, yeah its not present when you have the hud open, but its not removed or anything. its the same design as the dash, when you open the dash, the panel goes transparent and the menu vanishes
  <awilkins> gord: if you hold alt, does the "real" menu appear (the current behaviour). Not that I care, I mouse menus, but I know people who are freakish about keyboard usage of menus
  <gord> awilkins, ah thats a good point, right now no its not opening the menu, but thats my bug :) will fix
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] FOSDEM 2012 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/01/24/fosdem-2012/
  <davmor2> bigcalm: you saddo ;) brain the size of a planet and you make it connect to you phone ;)
  <bigcalm> A sign that I'm getting old: Twenty Twelve sounds like a futuristic date even now
  <bigcalm> davmor2: ;)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: no that is just a sign that you were born a century ago :D
  <bigcalm> davmor2: do you have a case? I've ordered one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005ARXH08
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I just got the rubber one so I didn't knock it off things as I walked passed :)
  <bigcalm> Ah
  <bigcalm> I can see mine travelling with me
  <bigcalm> I wonder if it's worth getting a bt keyboard
  <davmor2> bigcalm: mine will with me I might treat myself to a more appropriate case at a latter date but mine is mostly just there when I need it:)
  <bigcalm> Fair enough
  <popey> i want a boxee remote
  <popey> or 3
  <daubers> "I want doesn't get" as my mum always used to tell me
  <popey> yeah, i tell my kids that too
  <popey> but I have a job, so meh
  <daubers> heh :p
  <gord> the crappy windows vista remote popey recommended to me years ago has served me surprisingly well
  <bigcalm> :D
  <popey> yeah, i just ordered another one of them!
  <popey> no good for ubuntu tv tho âº
   * bigcalm adds a bt kb to his amazon wishlist. Enough spending has been done recently!
  <gord> the mouse driving it does is really horrible to use, but in a pinch, its really useful
  <popey> +1
   * daubers seems to be gaining vast amounts of samsung kit recently
  <daubers> phone, TV, monitor.....
  <bigcalm> ICS on the phone yet?
  <daubers> Not yet... supposed to be february
  <bigcalm> Ah, goodo :)
  <bigcalm> April can't come soon enough for me!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - love the fact that Canonical's pr firm email me interesting things after I have already read them via twitter.
  <bigcalm> :)
  <oimon> is gord a secret OMG lover?
  <davmor2> oimon: there is no secret about it :D
  <gord> why what have a i done now?
  <gord> -a
  <oimon> whoever made the video,
  <gord> i didn't make the video :)
  <gord> olli did http://www.olli-ries.com/?p=669
  <bigcalm> I think I sucked air though my teeth while talking to a potential new client on the phone. I should be working in a garage
  <AlanBell> oimon: whoever made the video spends time looking at microsoft stuff
  <AlanBell> google adsense for me is always alfresco adverts
  <popey> i get ads for red diesel
  <oimon> tasty
  <popey> I can't, I'm on a dfiet
  <popey> *diet
  <bigcalm> Are you a farmer?
  <popey> Ooo arrr
  <bigcalm> Or am I thinking of something else?
  <oimon> popey: preapre to get swamped by twitter spammers after your latest tweet
  <oimon> certain keyword
  <bigcalm> 'computer'
  <popey> haha
  <popey> i already have them all
  <oimon> or maybe fans of carry-on films will match on phwoooar
  <oimon> i'm not unity's biggest fan, but slashdot commenters are all luddites
  <bigcalm> Your fault for reading /. comments
  <bigcalm> Or /. at all really
  <oimon> every time i restart hotot, the ui has changed a bit and i have to find where the buttons are this time :D
  <davmor2> bigcalm: you terry pratchett fanboy ;)
  <bigcalm> davmor2: I wouldn't say fanboy, but I do enjoy his work
  <bigcalm> Why?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: pic lists your wireless connection name :D
  <bigcalm> Oh, yes :)
  <oimon> 90% of /. commenters think this is a alt-f2 app chooser thing rather than app menus
  <daubers> oimon: 99% of /. commenters don't read the article
  <oimon> daubers: i thought it was 101% :P
  <jpds> What article?
  <daubers> oimon: Well 1000% of statistics are made up to fit the statisticians evil purposes
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: HUD looks quite fun actually
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: from a programming point of view will we need to do any magic?
  <AlanBell> gordonjcp: no magic, if your app doesn't break global menus
  <oimon> just noticed linuxconf.au talks are now on youtube
  <daubers> where's the PPA for that btw?
  <AlanBell> ppa for HUD?
  <jutnux> Had a biology exam today
  <jutnux> And hello everyone :-)
  <kvarley> jutnux: hi there
  <daubers> AlanBell: Ya
  <ahayzen> Are the global menus still going to remain as a way of accessing the menus? Even when the HUD is fully implemented?
  <jutnux> kvarley: Howdy
  <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/hud
  <daubers> AlanBell: Ta muchly
  <AlanBell> ahayzen: I would imagine they would have to be, hopefully they will make them more pretty to match
  <ahayzen> AlanBell: Thanks.... Hopefully we will end up with both ways. The HUD for Keyboard use and global menus for mouse?
  <shaneo1> hi I have just installed LTSP on 11.10 server, but having issues with defaulting to unity 2d as unity 3d does not work on the thin clients at the moment
  <shaneo1> any ideas
  <jutnux> Can I ask why you are using the server install rather than the desktop one?
  <AlanBell> gord: ok, so this HUD thing, I can't work out what it is doing. doesn't seem to pop up when I have gnome-terminal running
  <gord> AlanBell, step by step, explain ;)
  <AlanBell> I installed from the ppa, started gnome-terminal, hit alt, nothing happens
  <AlanBell> ah, hang on, it is doing stuff now
  <gord> i may have been a little stingy with the timeout to consider a "tap"
  <AlanBell> ooh, a very very fast tap
  <AlanBell> err, those are not gnome-terminal menu items it is showing me
  <gord> problem is that we don't have the code in to detect if the user did say alt+h right now, its really more complicated than you would think to figure that out. so i'm being stingy to stop those cases coming up too much
  <gord> AlanBell, we ignore terminals right now, for debugging reasons
  <AlanBell> aaah right, I will stop testing it with that then :)
  <AlanBell> ok, now it is making more sense, I couldn't figure out what was going on with terminal having focus and it showing me nautilus menu options
   * AlanBell thinks this has been written by someone who does not have enough monitors
  <gord> i have two
  <AlanBell> is it going to pop up on the same screen as the global menu would do for an application?
  <gord> maybe after the multi-monitor work lands
  <AlanBell> ok, if you focus one application and use the HUD, then focus another and press alt, you get the icon of the first application until you press a letter
  <oimon>  if i'm using nautilus, hit alt, and type network, i don't see network
  <oimon> am i holding it wrong?
  <oimon> would expect to see go -> network
  <ahayzen> gord: On the video it shows a song being selected in banshee... however (in oneiric) there is no entry for Bookmarks and then the songs ... So my question is how does the HUD know what songs are in banshee and how to play them?
  <Daviey> !ping
  <lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
  <gord> oimon, yeah that should show network, there is some clever fuzzy matching going on thats not matching there, file a bug against indicator-appmenu?
  <oimon> gord, sure thing, wanted to check i was using it right
  <gord> ahayzen, tools -> bookmarks?
  <ahayzen> gord: Oh yh ... sorry ...
  <gord> np ;)
  <popey> this stuff should go in a FAQ
  <ahayzen> gord: I was thinking it was something cleaver going on with the Music lens or DBus ... oh well lol
   * daubers goes home
  <ubuntubhoy> is ubuntu freaking out when unplugged from the mains in a laptop running 64bit a common issue, or will it be a hardware compatibility issue my side ?
  <bigcalm> Doesn't happen to me
  <popey> define freak out
  <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqupk71a-O0 ?
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: just what I was thinking
  <ubuntubhoy> popey, as in dumps me to a text screen with no input, should really have taken note of the actual text, but basically a screen full of tuff crashing out
  <ubuntubhoy> stuff*
  <ubuntubhoy> happens both with Oneiric, and Precise
  <gord>  sounds like X dies
  <ubuntubhoy> 32 bit works fine, as does windows
  <bigcalm> Grrr, Spotify are really pushing facebook connection thingy on my client. Getting irritating. I paid the monthly subscription to stop the irritation :(
  <popey> bigcalm: tell them in #spotify
   * MartijnVdS replaces bigcalm's hand with a hook, gives him an eyepatch and a hat
  <gord> netflix on ps3 is awful for that
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in case you want to drop your support for Spotify ;)
  <gord> there are like five genres and one is "facebook"
  <MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
  <gord> the selection is really limited, really rather surprising
  <bigcalm> Sod, dog walking day and I'm late
  <bigcalm> Toodles
  <gord> davmor2, you about?
  <davmor2> gord: I am
  <gord> davmor2, cool, so oil rush was a pre-order on the software centre right?
  <davmor2> gord: indeed
  <gord> did they push up alpha builds until it released? or was it just quite literally a pre-order
  <davmor2> gord: no it was pre-release I think not pre order you got software
  <gord> cool, thanks :)
  <davmor2> gord: iirc I think there is at least one update in the packaging queue unless it has gone out already it all becomes a blur
  <davmor2> gord: it's an awesome game but it don't half suck the go go juice out of your system :)
  <davmor2> gord: you install ryzom yet?
  <gord> davmor2, though honestly my time for pc games since we last talked about has been zero :(
  <gord> busy busy
  <davmor2> no seriously welcome to my world ;)
  <davmor2> gord: even when I've got down time I got so much that has been on the back boiler there is no time free
  <davmor2> gord: on a plus side hud looks cool
  <davmor2> gord: you don't really see my work :(
  <SuperEngineer> weee! Google+ relaxes real name policy to allow pseudonyms http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16700902
  <gord> davmor2, true, but then again sometimes i'd call that a blessing ;)
  <smittix> evening!
  <daubers> Evening
  <smittix> How goes daubers ?
  <mattt> herro
  <MartijnVdS> howdy
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - Just typed "Growing Chiilies" into Google - I'm #2
  <brobostigon> cool :)
  <MartijnVdS> growling chillies?
  <jutnux> Howdy all
  <jacobw> hey
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The HUD: Call For Testers - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/24/hud-call-for-testers/
  <jacobw> :)
  <jacobw> hud looks great, the mockups looks like its been developed for a while
  <jacobw> is canonical trying to do apple style suprise new stuff?
  <popey> like we haven't before?
  <popey> font... design.. branding.. unity...
  <jacobw> true
  <ahayzen> I guess it is a good way of hitting the news and getting more publicity, the HUD is everywhere on the news at the moment
   * jacobw looks forward to 12.04
  <popey> exactly
  <popey> and releasing when the time is right is also wise
  <popey> not saying the time was right, just saying thats wise ;)
  <popey> also, keeping it under wraps till you've developed it means other people can't... 'borrow' it and say they made it themselves
  <popey> *cough*
  <jacobw> 'borrowing' is killing open source man :p
  <popey> gord: firefox, tap alt, type 'down' expect to see 'downloads' but don't
  <popey> i see shutdown options
  <jutnux> AlanBell: popey: Do you reckon you could remove my pin from the "Where are we" page? :-)
  <popey> â¹
  <popey> i dunno that I can, AlanBell will know
  <jutnux> Okie dokie.
  <jutnux> How are you all then?
  <popey> tickety boo
  <gord> popey, looks like the service has a hard time with firefox, can you file a bug against indicator-appmenu?
  <popey> sure
  <popey> ubuntu-bug or plan lp?
  <popey> *plain
  <gord> launchpad
  <popey> ok
  <AlanBell> jutnux: sure
  <AlanBell> jutnux: it is in the trash now, should be gone
  <popey> bug 921231
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921231 in Application Menu Indicator "HUD can't find download menu item in firefox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921231
  <jutnux> AlanBell: Thanks :-)
  <jutnux> THe HUD looks extremely nice.
  <smittix> ouch, new laptop lasts about 20minutes on battery with 11.10
  <smittix> time to get to work by the looks of things.
  <gord> grrr stupid popey, his ping whilst i was walking about with my ps3 controller has lead to me putting down the ps3 controller somewhere that i don't know where i put it and now i can't find it. its obviously entirely his fault
  <popey> haha
  <popey> gord: should I buy a PS3?
  <gord> stupid wireless technology
  <popey> gord: name 3 must-have games on PS3
  <kvarley> popey: No. Don't do it!
  <gord> only three? ;)
  <popey> hah
  <popey> did you see the launchpad guy who brought his ps3 to the rally in budapest?
  <gord> i love my ps3, but if you don't play much games now, or get enough from steam, its not really worth it :)
  <popey> he was playing at like 160x120 on a projector
  <gord> there was a ps3 at budapest?!
  <popey> yeah
  <jutnux> popey: Little Big Planet 2 and I have an Xbox.
  <gord> no one tells me these things :(
  <popey> gmb knows who he is
  <gord> in orlando we played left4dead 2 multiplayer on two projectors, that was fun ;)
  <popey> i told him to use our room which has an hdmi equipped projector, he was using composite out âº
  <popey> couldn't read the text his friends were typing
  <czajkowski> gord: were you in a corner eating all the bisscuits!
  <jacobw> 160x120?!
  <jacobw> :|
  <popey> humour
  <popey> exaggeration for comedic effect
  <popey> i can't remember his name but i do recall showing him a video of a family guy character and saying he sounded like it
  <gord> well.. i guess i need to shop for a new controller on amazon, seeing as the one i had in my hand 15 minutes ago is lost to the sock and screw dimension
  <AlanBell> hmm, hud-cli isn't in the ppa
  <gord> AlanBell, indicator-appmenu-tools
  <AlanBell> ah right, a new package
  <czajkowski> anyone seen issues like this on 12.04 on running todays updates
  <czajkowski> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/815871/
  <gord> turns out i put it behind the sofa, not sure the reason why, maybe ghosts put it there
  <czajkowski> was it the cat?
  <gord> that makes too much sense for it to not be the cat
  <czajkowski> popey: do you know if its possible to take a screen capture in Ubuntu the way you can on a mac by selecting a certain area, I dont want to have to crop each and every image afterwards
  <bigcalm> What should I get Hayley for her 40th birthday in May? Not sure how to trump the ### quid pen I gave her at xmas
  <bigcalm> czajkowski: you can alt-printscreen to capture the active window
  <AlanBell> czajkowski: gnome-screenshot -i
  <popey> czajkowski: install shutter
  <popey> its a really nice screenshot tool
  <czajkowski> ok so how does shutter work ?
  <popey> install it, run it
  <popey> press one of the buttons to take a screenshot
  <czajkowski> bigcalm: aye I dont want the active window writing stuff for a manual which means I only want images
  <bigcalm> Fair enough
  <czajkowski> bigcalm: I do that for bugs tis handy thanks
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: might look into that if I can select the area
  <smittix> I hate laptops sometimes!
  <czajkowski> thanks folks
  <AlanBell> czajkowski: you can
  <bigcalm> :)
  <AlanBell> and it is the same tool as alt+prtscr
  <czajkowski> cheers
  <AlanBell> top tip, if you like alt+prtscr to take a screenshot, then HUD might not be ready for you :)
   * popey once again recommends shutter âº
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <smittix> does anyone else get continuous head parking on a laptop?
  <bigcalm> AlanBell: can HUD be bound to Alt Gr?
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: maybe UI'll try HUD after this manual is written
  <AlanBell> dunno, ask gord
  <czajkowski> am close to killing the developer
  <czajkowski> no documentation so I've to test things 3-4 times to see if I'm getting what I think I should be getting
  <bigcalm> You're a trooper!
  <czajkowski> no I'm insane
  <czajkowski> I did this for a mate
  <czajkowski> not expecting a 46 page manial
  <czajkowski> *manual
  <bigcalm> o.O
  <czajkowski> lotta diagrams
  <czajkowski> and explainations
   * bigcalm takes soap away from czajkowski :)
  <czajkowski> indeed
  <czajkowski> SLEEP!
  <AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, in ccsm you can bind it to other keys
  <popey> bug 921270
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921270 in Application Menu Indicator "HUD picks the wrong application to search" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921270
  <AlanBell> I have hud bound to the funny windows right click context menu key
  <bigcalm> Oh, the context menu key
  <AlanBell> popey: I think it is just the icon not updated
  <popey> ah
  <popey> you may be right
  <AlanBell> press a key and it updates and searches the correct app, that confused me too
  <AlanBell> there is some very screwed up searching going on
   * popey updates bugs
  <AlanBell> bug #921275
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921275 in Application Menu Indicator "HUD searching method is hard to fathom" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921275
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-25
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Prompt with colour-changing smiley dependant upon exit code of command - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2012/01/24/prompt-with-colour-changing-smiley-dependant-upon-exit-code-of-command/
  <diplo> Morning all
  <Myrtti> moin
  <AlanBell> lornisng
  <AlanBell> gah, home keys
  <AlanBell> morning
  <TheOpenSourcerer> lornisng AlanBell
   * AlanBell goes to top up the cofeee levels
  <daubers> Morning
  <popey> ;prmosmh AlanBell
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh Chiral superconductivity
  <TheOpenSourcerer> This effect breaks time-reversal symmetry
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Is there *anything* that graphene can't do? http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/01/graphene-may-exhibit-exotic-superconductivity.ars
  <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Solve p vs np?
  <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Solve bug1 ?
  <daubers> Make cheese?
  <smittix> Good Morning Fellow Ubuntu'ers
  <oimon> AlanBell: would you say bug 921275 is a dupe of 921068?
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921275 in Application Menu Indicator "HUD searching method is hard to fathom" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921275
  <bigcalm> !ping
  <lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> !pong
  <lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
  <bigcalm> !ding
  <lubotu3> dong
  <TheOpenSourcerer> !Leslie Phillips
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice. Visit this link from your mobile data connection: http://lew.io/headers.php On O" they send your Mobile Phone Number to every site you visit...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> s/O2
  <AlanBell> eww
  <danfish> morning
  <danfish> anybody know anyone who works at giffgaff?
  <danfish> they've made a complete horlicks of porting my wife's mobile phone number :(
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Not really -  They use a fairly "opensource" method of support ;-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Have you seen the noise about O2 this morning? sending your mobile # to every site you visit.
  <bigcalm> Would be nice if trac were to email me when a client adds an attachment to a ticket :|
  <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: oh that's just the cherry on top of the icing. I'm setting up my own mobile network.
   * danfish orders a thousand carrier pidgeons
  <danfish> at least if they don't work you can eat them
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if O2 might be trending soon...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww - Scary plane landings... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-57365171-52/dont-fly-this-at-home-video-of-scary-landings-goes-viral/
  <andylockran> howdy all
  <andylockran> anyone used a Synology NAS before?
  <andylockran> They look really neat, do two-way sync and also backup and 'time-based backups' to Amazon S3.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah Hah: https://twitter.com/#!/o2
  <andylockran> man, I need faster internet..
  <andylockran> crikey TheOpenSourcerer they're in a spot of bother :D
  <bigcalm> Wow, nice morning for o2
  <AlanBell> damage control mode ON!
  <AlanBell> and just when I was going to re-code our website to text adverts to visitors
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/neelie-kroes/donottrack/ "... itâs a directive to protect us against all kinds of malware and spyware,  to ensure the confidentiality of your electronic communications, and to  outlaw automated unsolicited marketing phone calls and spam without the  consent of the receiver."
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <bigcalm> Hi czajkowski
  <rml_home> O2 customers, this is for you - http://lew.io/headers.php
  <andylockran> that's nice :D works a treat on my O2 phone.
  <Daviey> One more reason to use a VPN :)
  <Daviey>  or proxy.
  <gord> do vpns/proxies work on mobiles?
  <czajkowski> gord: there is the option for a vpn on my phone though never tried it
  <rml_home> FWIW I'm a fraud investigator, and using proxies is a big red flag.
  <Daviey> rml_home: uh?
  <Daviey> gord: yes, they do.
  <gord> proxies are pretty common
  <oimon> rml_home: what kind of fraud?
  <danfish> what happens when a fraud investigator is suspected of fraud? Are there fraud investigator investigators?
  <gord> what about fraud investigator investigators that are su... yeah lets not do that
  <rml_home> Daviey/oimon:  My company takes online payments.  Peeps coming via an anonymising proxy stand out a mile
   * danfish decides to setup the vpn he's meant to do for yonks
  <popey> rml_home: like every virgin media customer?
  <oimon> don't the FBI own some tor nodes?
  <Daviey> rml_home: who said anything about anonymising proxies?
  <rml_home> Daviey: I read a whole subtext into your "uh?"
  <Daviey> rml_home: considering proxies as a whole as a red flag is concerning... :)
  <rml_home> Daviey: I look at a lot of other stuff too, but coming via an anonymising proxy is a legitimate concern
  <oimon> in your line of work i can see why.
  <rml_home> it's a red flag, not a ban hammer
  <Daviey> At no point was i suggesting a "anonymising proxy".
  <oimon> anywayyyy....
  <Daviey> Although, i'd be interested in seeing how you determine an "anonymising proxy".. unless it is from a provider which specalises in this.
  <rml_home> Daviey: There are sites which specialise in this stuff unfortunately
  <Daviey> andylockran: feeling bored?  Fancy writing a page that grabs the phone number from the headers, and inserts it into asterisk to call them and say "thanks for visiting my web page 'foobar' ?
  <Daviey> rml_home: right.. :/
  <rml_home> http://hidemyass.com/ is one of my favourites right now
  <Daviey> Someone on my team used to work for Anonymizer.
  <Daviey> I used to use SafeWeb, which was CIA funded :)
  <rml_home> I try to do the best I can for my employer to mitigate fraud.  Most of our customers don't do tricksy stuff.  The ones that do get extra scrutiny
  <Mez> I'm looking for a way to get a dessktop boot locked down to only be allowed to use the browser.
  <Mez> Anyone have any suggestions on this?
  <bigcalm> Mez: quick google gave me this for ubuntu: http://www.instructables.com/id/Setting-Up-Ubuntu-as-a-Kiosk-Web-Appliance/
  <popey> Mez: google for ubuntu kiosk mode
  <popey> indeed, thats the first hit
  <oimon> mez, also disable the firefox restore sessions thing if using firefox ...
  <Mez> Hmm...
  <oimon> hmm that guide is more for display screens than what you're after i guess
  <Mez> well, without --kiosk it might be suitable.
  <oimon> kde3 used to have kiosk admin tool
  <czajkowski> huzzah found bug that's beeng annoying and developer couldnt confrm but now can, dont feel like an tool
  <oimon> someone should do a live cd of this really
  <popey> delete all users and logon as guest âº
  <czajkowski> great now my batter is swigging from being empty to being charged all within a min or so
  <popey> my laptop lasted for 5 hours the other night when i tested it
  <czajkowski> popey: aye I'm getting just short of 6 now
  <czajkowski> loving it
  <czajkowski> :D
  <smittix> My laptop lasted 19 minutes last night.
  <bigcalm> I'm pleased with the battery life of my Xoom so far
  <gord> my laptop would last 8-10 until platform sprint :( new kernel came out and the awesome power management stuff went away
  <bigcalm> Read that as 8-10 mins. Most confusing
  <andylockran> Daviey: I would if I had the time.. busy man with new work :D
  <danfish> pff - call that battery life! I've gotton a year out of a AA cell....on an arduino ;)
  <Daviey> andylockran: an awesome person like you, should take, what 3 mins?
  <gord> i've never had to replace the batteries in my ps3 blutooth remote ever!
  <Mez> andylockran: that o2 stuff apparentl affects giffgaff too!
  <smittix> My Pacemaker battery is lasting along time too
  <gord> aa batteries obviously last the longest, will have to jerry rig my laptop to run on them
   * popey gets his giffgaff sim out
  <bigcalm> Oh matron
  <Daviey> Mez: it goes back a long time it eems
  <daubers> danfish: How did you get around the silly voltage regulatory eating mAh?
  <AlanBell> laptop with AA batteries -> http://www.norhtec.com/products/gecko/index.html
   * daubers installs the hud
  <danfish> daubers: some rather clever code (obviously not written by me!) from this guy http://jeelabs.org/2012/01/19/the-beat-still-goes-on/
  <daubers> danfish: Ah, are you using arduinos or jeenodes?
  <danfish> jeenode with this for power http://jeelabs.com/products/aa-power-board
  <daubers> :) That'll be why
  <danfish> :)
  <daubers> The voltage regulator on the arduino eats power even when the atmega is set to idle
  <daubers> or idle power down
  <danfish> yeah, it's not the most efficient one they could have chosen
  <gordonjcp> power efficiency isn't really a goal
  <danfish> gordonjcp: quite right...it's a journey not a goal
  <daubers> heh :) I've just been taking arduinos appart to get the to the power efficiency I want
  <gordonjcp> you're starting from the wrong place
  <danfish> gordonjcp: eh?
  <gordonjcp> danfish: if you want it to be power efficient, forget the arduino
  <gordonjcp> and indeed the ATMega 8-bit family
  <gordonjcp> you wouldn't start building a fuel-efficient car by getting a V8 and a 3-speed auto box, would you?
  <danfish> true
  <AlanBell> everyone got a haggis?
  <bigcalm> Mmmm, haggis
  <bigcalm> Is it burns night?
   * popey is making pizza tonight
  <popey> nobody else in the house likes haggis
  <DJones> If anybody is bothered about the O2 mobile leaking mobile numbers, pocketlint have a work around http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/44141/o2-leaking-phone-number-to-websites
  <bigcalm> Awww
  <popey> might pop out and get some tho
  * AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | "Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face, Great chieftain o' the puddin-race!"
   * DJones thinks haggis is a great idea
   * popey suspects waitrose would be the best place to go
  <danfish> haggis crumbled on pizza?
  <popey> heh, nice idea!
  <bigcalm> popey: waitrose sell lovely pre-sliced haggis that you microwave for 1 minute
  <popey> oooo
  <bigcalm> 2 slices per pack
  <Daviey> DJones: Please don't spread that around.. it's making it really hard for those trying to abuse this.
  <bigcalm> So a sensible amount
  <DJones> Daviey: Heh, you better tell pocketlint as well
  <AlanBell> I saw that yesterday bigcalm, but went and got a more propper one
  <Daviey> DJones: heh
  <DJones> Daviey: Post a link to the pocketlink story on /. it'll be as good a DOS attack on pocketlink :)
  <DJones> eww. Waitrose sell haggis in a tin, that doesn't sound good
  <popey> it is actually
  <popey> its in the usual sack thing
  <AlanBell> they also do a huge haggis for Â£15 that feeds 10 people
  <DJones> AlanBell: Or 2 people with normal appetites
  <christel> i have never had haggis :s
  <AlanBell> DJones: I was slightly tempted, but it looked a bit big even for me
  <AlanBell> christel: sainsburys in town has them
  <christel> ooh
  <Daviey> DJones: good thinking
  <danfish> AlanBell: can't you just get some of your chicken feed, marinate it in a puddle for a week, then wrap it in a sock - would look very similar to most haggis I've eaten :P
   * popey goes to waitrose to look for haggis
  <DJones> oi Leave some for me
  <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
  <AlanBell> danfish: that is approximately how it works I believer
  <sagaci> just updated my virtualbox instance and the mouse won't move :S
  <mattt> holy crap
  <mattt> you guys see that stuff about o2?
  <AlanBell> yup
  <DJones> Why isn't there a "Tab" key on the right hand side of a keyboard, it would make navigating websites/filling numerical boxes in much easier
  <davmor2> morning all
  <ubuntubhoy> DJones, they expect you to have 2 hands
  <ubuntubhoy> unless your a pirate
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod your get the idea
  <DJones> ubuntubhoy: Yeah, but one is moving a ruler up and down a piece of paper, it'd be less RSI with one on the right
  <bigcalm> Afternoon Dave2
  <bigcalm> Afternoon davmor2 as well
  <gord> and to all other daves a good afternoon too
  <davmor2> bigcalm: morning
  <davmor2> morning gord
  <bigcalm> Daviey: get a better timezone
  <davmor2> bigcalm: haha tab fail
  <DJones> gord: And good afternoon to you too
  <Daviey> bigcalm: wilco
  <bigcalm> I'm easily amused: https://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/162147052082561024
  <czajkowski> davmor2: hello my der
  <czajkowski> *dear
  <davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
  <gord> reflection makes it look like its bent
  <bigcalm> Search for 'snake 97' on the android market
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I have like work to do ;)
  <bigcalm> Actually quite playable on my phone
  <bigcalm> Just silly on the Xoom
  <ubuntubhoy> would be better used as a dialler
  <ubuntubhoy> that would be nice
  <Neoti_Laptop> are there any PHP masters in here ... ?
  <dwatkins> No, just padouin.
  <dwatkins> possibly spelled Padawan
  <davmor2> Naughty 02 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3508857
  <davmor2> o2 even
  <dwatkins> davmor2: yeah, I checked with Three and Vodafone, it's just O2 that's sending the telephone number in the headers
  <directhex> <thom> essentially, all mobile providers do it, but they whitelist the sites they send that header to. O2 are saying a router upgrade dropped the whitelist in the skip
  <dwatkins> i'd like to know which sites they send it to, then.
  <oimon> sounds legit
  <dwatkins> Perhaps it's a scam to find out what the most popular phone is amongst hackers ;)
  <directhex> dwatkins, payment portals
  <directhex> dwatkins, so you can pay for android market etc via your phone bill
  <dwatkins> directhex: ah yes, that makes perfect sense
  <dwatkins> I vaguely wondered how that worked last time I used one.
   * mattt has an o2 phone :(
  <mattt> but fortunately it's a work phone
  <mattt> :P
  <dwatkins> mattt: likewise :) I can turn it off when I want to
  <smittix> A few additional arguments passed to grub has boosted my battery :)
  <smittix> And I have screen brightness control back. YAY!
  <bigcalm> Made myself a 3 large egg omelette for lunch. Wondering if it was sensible now
  <bigcalm> Nice one, smittix
  <smittix> bigcalm: mmmm omelette
  <bigcalm> Trying to cut down on my carbohydrate intake. So went for the most protean laden thing I could think of (and could make)
  <bigcalm> Not something I'll be eating every day though
  <czajkowski> has the min max x boxes gone for anyone else today running Precise?
  <popey> not me
  <czajkowski> bugger
  <czajkowski> I cn only alt f4 them to close
  <popey> screenshot?
  <popey> sounds like compiz crash
  <oimon> unity --reset?
  <popey> compiz --replace
  <czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/8bintd
  <popey> put the mouse up there
  <oimon> oeer missi
  <popey> or hold down ALT
  <popey> menu and buttons hide by default
  <popey> have done for ages
  <czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/8bioau
  <czajkowski> danit it not capturing the moue
  <czajkowski> *mouse
  <popey> does the menu not appear when you put the mouse at the top left?
  <czajkowski>   nope
  <czajkowski> but does if I go half way down
  <popey> have you installed all updates?
  <popey> I'd logout and back in again
  <czajkowski> yup did more this morning
  <czajkowski> and mvo could recreate my s/w center bug as well
  <popey> I am properly liking 12.04
  <popey> except for the bugs
  <czajkowski> aye there are some annoying onces
  <smittix> Might install it this afternoon.
  <smittix> Is it usable or very buggy?
  <czajkowski> very useable
  <czajkowski> some slight annoying bugs
  <czajkowski> but it's a lot better than previous early stages
  <oimon> probably subject to breakage when a lot of new packages come down the update chute
  <popey> we had new x yesterday
  <popey> very few issues
  <smittix> Cool, will check it out.
  <dwatkins> new on stable or testing release, popey?
  <andylockran> Howdy
  <dickie_> what do Ido now
  <DJones> Hello dickie_
  <dickie_> Hello all
  <gord> y'know i've been working on unity in its various forms for over two years now. but i still sometimes close the terminal that i started unity with...
  <popey> gord: you should start unity from tty1
  <gord> popey, not good for watching debug messages
  <popey> do it in screen?
  <popey> then if you close the terminal its fine
  <gord> true, but really i just need to stop being an idiot
  <popey> there is that
  <bigcalm_> Grumble sticks
  <davmor2> gord: you're not an idiot, a bit of a muppet maybe but not an idiot ;)
  <bigcalm_> That'll be why then
  <davmor2> bigcalm: what will be why then
  <bigcalm> davmor2: why I was having freenode trouble
  <davmor2> bigcalm: why's that then?
  <bigcalm> o.O
  <bigcalm> Net split
  <bigcalm> And nickserv isn't available for me to identify with
  <monsterwizard> Is it possible to do a programming internship after my degree?
  <monsterwizard> is it heard of?
  <gord> why wouldn't you just go for a full job?
  <oimon> monsterwizard: i think you are fixated :D
  <oimon> try to enjoy your degree too!
  <monsterwizard> gord more job prospects?
  <monsterwizard> oimon I'm so attached to the grades it's depressing.
  <gord> monsterwizard, how would having a real job instead of an internship make any difference?
  <davmor2> monsterwizard: you don't think you'll get experience from a full-time job?
  <monsterwizard> You're correct :P
  <oimon> you're wrong
  <oimon> in my humble opinion...
  <dwatkins> My first job was effectively an internship - they paid me very little to learn as I went.
  <monsterwizard> I'm worried that they'll look a my grades..and no one in the entire world will hire me.
  <dwatkins> grades aren't everything
  <bigcalm> I got my job with few grades (no A levels or degree)
  <oimon> by grades, you mean shcool grades or uni exam marks?
  <dwatkins> I don't have a degree.
  <monsterwizard> It's mainly group work. I haven't found friends to work with so I get put with the drop outs :/
  <monsterwizard> uni grades.
  <oimon> uni grades don't count - only final degree mark counts
  <czajkowski> http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/01/o2-mobile-numbers-and-web-browsing.html
  <dwatkins> or experience, oimon ;)
  <monsterwizard> It's my first year and the grades don't count but I have the chance to do an intership after year two
  <hamitron> don't uni grades affect the final degree mark? o.O
  <gord> why on earth does totem send the alt keypress every 30 seconds... if its to stop the screensaver coming up i'm going to scream
   * czajkowski hugs gord 
  <czajkowski> monsterwizard: which uni ?
  <monsterwizard> West England.
  <oimon> my sis went there
  <dwatkins> monsterwizard: a year in industry between 2nd and 3rd year? Which degree, out of interest?
  <davmor2> gord: muhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa
  <monsterwizard> Computer Science.
  <hamitron> monsterwizard, imo, that experience can be useful
   * dwatkins agrees with hamitron 
  <monsterwizard> if they accept me.
  <dwatkins> My brothers did that, was very useful
  <hamitron> I didn't do it, and wish I had
  <monsterwizard> but are you making a living?
  <dwatkins> likewise, I dropped out before going to work for Siemens in Munich
  <monsterwizard> can you provide food for yourself?
   * dwatkins grins
  <monsterwizard> While buying the odd electronic device and book?
  <davmor2> gord: if it's a any key press chage it to tab you'll soon find out :)
  <dwatkins> monsterwizard: despite what you may have been told, having a degree is not essential in order to get a job you enjoy and that pays well
  <dwatkins> It's just a very good idea to start off with.
  <monsterwizard> dwatkins will that be the case in the future as these qualifications become more important.
  <monsterwizard> ?
  <dwatkins> monsterwizard: I can't say, but it depends who you're being compared to
  <oimon> degree isn't esssential but can involve a bit of luck getting started in your career
  <dwatkins> Imagine you're in an interview against your closest friends at uni, monsterwizard
  <oimon> i'm sure we have this convo every few weeks. try to chill :D
  <monsterwizard> haha yeah I must
  <dwatkins> if you have the edge, more experience etc. you're more likely to get the job
  <monsterwizard> and just one more question.
  <monsterwizard> I feel if I become a sys admin I would of failed
  <monsterwizard> it's not that bad of a job, right?
  <dwatkins> That's quite a generalisation.
  <smittix> popey: How do you manage your iPhone within Linux?
  <hamitron> getting any job you enjoy, is not really failure
  <smittix> Or don't you?
  <dwatkins> I'd love to be the sysadmin of an interesting place with fun people, monsterwizard, but I'd hate to be a sysadmin for a small company that's going nowhere
  <smittix> monsterwizard: I started as a sysadmin
   * dwatkins also started as a sysadmin, in a sense
  <monsterwizard> ahh ok.
  <smittix> we all have to start somewhere.
  <popey> smittix: define 'manage' ?
  <smittix> popey: Do you add content via linux?
  <popey> no
  <smittix> ahh
  <popey> i pull photos off it with shotwell
  <oimon> sysadmin with linux is fun. sysadmin with windows is downtime and patching and apologising and stomach aches.  just my experience
  <monsterwizard> smittix you're right
  <monsterwizard> But I do want to be involved in creating something.
  <monsterwizard> I love building stuffs.
  <oimon> i create happiness
  <dwatkins> oimon: depends on the office, our sysadmin is fairly chilled-out, doesn't need to worry about updates etc.
  <oimon> and build infrastructure
  <dwatkins> oimon: are you building the great British firewall? ;)
  <oimon> is there one?
  <dwatkins> oimon: not that I'm aware of, I'm being silly about the US laws which were proposed, SOPA, PIPA etc.
  <smittix> Where I started was an SME. With a terrible infrastructure.
  <oimon> maybe my feigned ignorance is proof that i'm working on it
  <smittix> So I had the chance to prove myself.
  <dwatkins> oimon: cunning
   * dwatkins hands oimon a fox to pet
   * oimon installs linux on it
   * bigcalm would like nickserv to come back :)
  <dwatkins> can we just invite it, bigcalm?
  <Dave2> We all would.
  <ahayzen> yey i'm back :)
   * bigcalm feels naked and exposed
  <monsterwizard> Anyway, cheers everyone for making me feel better.
  <ahayzen> ok that was scary wht happened?
  <jpds> !netsplit | ahayzen
  <lubotu3> ahayzen: netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
  <bigcalm> ahayzen: Dave2 had something nasty for lunch
  <ahayzen> jpds: thx
  <ahayzen> bigcalm: lol
  <bigcalm> Or what jpds pointed at
  <dwatkins> czajkowski / TheOpenSourcerer - http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/01/o2-mobile-numbers-and-web-browsing.html
  <davmor2> gord: hud why is it not showing me urls from history in FF?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Seen it. Thanks.
  <davmor2> gord: it does on the video ;)
  <bigcalm> davmor2: we should get a live demonstration of a fully working system tomorrow ;)
  <gord> davmor2, iruno,  maybe it hates you? i don't really do the backend ;)
  <bigcalm> Haha
  <TheOpenSourcerer> And cz<tab> already posted that link
  <TheOpenSourcerer> (15:43:08) czajkowski: http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/01/o2-mobile-numbers-and-web-browsing.html
  <dwatkins> oh cool, TheOpenSourcerer :)
  <czajkowski> dwatkins: thanks though
  <dwatkins> welcome :)
  <dwatkins> I was on the phone when you pasted this, czajkowski - thought it was the original story
  <dwatkins> anyhoo, moving on...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> It was interesting how "relatively" quickly the issue spread and got dealt with. I doubt that would have happened without Twitter/Facebook etc.
  <davmor2> gord: gee that's okay then ;)
  <dwatkins> absolutely, TheOpenSourcerer
  <AlanBell> "We share mobile numbers with selected trusted partners for 3 reasons: 1) to manage age verification, which manages access to adult content," that is reassuring
  <dwatkins> I was just wondering about that too, AlanBell - how do they know my age, though?
  <Dave2> You pay Â£1 via a credit card
  <popey> they dont, but they know if you have a credit card
  <dwatkins> gotcha
  <Dave2> (They then give you Â£2.50 credit)
  <AlanBell> you can phone up and get the age bar lifted, you have to do that if you want to get access to hardcore sites like the ubuntu forums
  <Dave2> You don't need to phone up any more, I did it all online.
  <popey> Phwoar!
  <dwatkins> all that sedicious content...
  <hamitron> forums are just too exciting ;/
  <AlanBell> it was Orange that classified them as 18+ I think
  <TheOpenSourcerer> They also block (censor) access to Tor apparently... https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tale-new-censors-vodafone-uk-t-mobile-uk-o2-uk-and-t-mobile-usa As does most other UK mobile telcos
  <AlanBell> I had a tedious conversation with Orange about the forums once
  <davmor2> AlanBell: let me guess they saw it as a chat client and didn't want minors exposed to it
  <AlanBell> "can you adjust your filter to not include this site?" "yes sir, I will change your settings so you can look at all the porn you want sir . . ." "no, that isn't what I mean . . ."
  <oimon> "can you reclassify the site as non-adult"
  <AlanBell> went round in circles for 10 minutes and I gave up
  <oimon> who does the classification? orange or 3rd party?
  <AlanBell> 3rd party
  <AlanBell> it might have changed now, that was some years ago when 3g dongles were a novelty
   * bigcalm bounces
  <KrisDouglas> What is the point in relationships, very stressful and you can't use your computer 24/7 :)
  <popey> â  #relationships
  <KrisDouglas> haha
  <oimon> is there such a room?
  <popey> no idea
  <popey> but it's not here âº
  <oimon> maybe at 2 in the morning
  <oimon> i never read the scrollback..i don't know what happens in here at the lonely hour of 2am
  <KrisDouglas> I feel that it's a valid point, ubuntu is too attractive nowadays.
  <KrisDouglas> Anyway, I actually have a valid question
  <KrisDouglas> :)
  <KrisDouglas> With the new Java license, and not being able to distribute it, are you responsible for keeping it up to date on ubuntu?
  <Neoti_Laptop> anyone know kdenlive and MTL ?
   * AlanBell puts the haggis on :)
  <AlanBell> KrisDouglas: openJDK is the new hotness
  <AlanBell> sun java is old and busted
  <MartijnVdS> \o/
  <KrisDouglas> AlanBell, when it comes to OJDK, what's its performance like in comparison? I heard it has been improving, but things like Minecraft aren't quite right yet?
  <popey> i have been running minecraft with ojdk for over a year
  <andylockran> kewl
  <KrisDouglas> popey, damn, I feel like I've missed the boat here.
  <KrisDouglas> popey, how does it run on your machine?
  <bigcalm> It's only 5 blocks of wood, make a new one
  <KrisDouglas> bigcalm, hurr.
  <davmor2> AlanBell: Take the haggis off your head it was a fun gag when you were 10 but not any more ;)
  <davmor2> KrisDouglas: I run sikuli on ojdk I get the odd issue with rendering but nothing worth writing home about
  <bigcalm> What's the betting that the Xoom case I ordered will arrive tomorrow?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: You know it will
  <bigcalm> Open the Software Centre on the far right monitor to install a new .deb. Admin password window appears on the far left monitor. Odd and confusing as it looks as though nothing is happening
  <davmor2> bigcalm: write a bug for it I'll pass on the info
  <bigcalm> I'm using xfce, not sure if that'll make any difference
  <davmor2> bigcalm: it might :(
  <davmor2> bigcalm: it may be that you installed on one screen and then went to the other and because of that it opened on the left screen maybe?
  <bigcalm> davmor2: chromium downloaded a .deb. I clicked and ran it though Software Centre. This is all on the right hand monitor
  <bigcalm> I believe that my left hand monitor is set as the default one
  <bigcalm> I live with it, once I realised where the password box had gone ;)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: see USC triggers policykit for the user password but I'm assuming it should open in the desktop that has focus but I don't know how well xfce handles that
  <davmor2> w3m you know what's missing an ascii art plugin everyone would browse the web from there tty if only w3m had ascii art :D
  <bigcalm> I recall playing mplayer and quake through the ascii video driver
  <bigcalm> Quite enjoyable
  <popey> KrisDouglas: no different than with sun jdk
  <davmor2> bigcalm: there is an ascii tv app
  <KrisDouglas> Interesting, thanks for the info popey, I will have to (re)install it and have a play
  <KrisDouglas> SIlly old me.
  <KrisDouglas> Silly8
  <davmor2> bigcalm: You've never seen static till you see it through ascii art
  <KrisDouglas> davmor2, I bet that is something else.
  <brobostigon> reminds of vlc's terminal output.
  <AlanBell> telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
  <davmor2> AlanBell: ah starwars from 20th century Text
  <KrisDouglas> AlanBell, I should have left the office by now. Damn you and your ASCII Starwars!
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <danfish> w00t! Despite the problems on the O2/giffgaff network, they've finally sorted my wife's number port :)
  <danfish> VPN setup for web browsing as well
  <davmor2> KrisDouglas: Well if you will play rather than work then whose fault is it :P
  <Azelphur> I ported my number to giffgaff went pretty smoothly :D
  <Azelphur> Only thing that irritates me about giffgaff is the coverage isn't as good as 3 :(
  <danfish> Azelphur: my port went fine as well
  <Azelphur> :D
  <danfish> The coverage is the same as O2 and in the SE is pretty good
  <gordonjcp> danfish: giffgaff == O2
  <gordonjcp> which is why the coverage is the same
  <Azelphur> lies, SE coverage is bad
  <Azelphur> At my aunts in Ashford I get no bars a lot of the time :/
  <Azelphur> and all around my cousins in romney it's bad too
  <danfish> gordonjcp: exactly!
  <danfish> Azelphur: mileage may vary - does Ashford have fire yet? :P
  <Azelphur> lmao
  <Azelphur> danfish: dunno, you could say that about romney, but Ashford is a major travel hub xD
  <danfish> Azelphur: true - prob should switch that round
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <danfish> time to bath the monkeys/children
  <Azelphur> haha, thats odd, according to the map there's masts all over the place right near my aunts
  <Azelphur> sense, makes none.
  <danfish> Azelphur: there was a problem with data in the early days of the iphone in the south east - too many iphones!
  <Azelphur> oh, it found the wrong road that's why, dam having multiple roads with the same name :P
  <aquarius> birmingham people: you coming out to play on Saturday evening? :)
  <smittix> Evening all
  <Azelphur> People on O2/Giffgaff: http://conversation.which.co.uk/technology/o2-sharing-mobile-phone-number-network-provider/
  <zleap> hello
  <jacobw> evening
  <zleap> evening, how are you
  <jacobw> sedentry, yourself?
  <jacobw> yo SuperEngineer
  <popey> Evening slackers
  <jacobw> evening popey :)
  <SuperEngineer> yo 2u2 jacobw
  <bigcalm> Morning popey
  <jacobw> gmt relevant salutations only
  <MartijnVdS> Good $DAY_PART, $PERSON
  <bigcalm> The thought of going to Wolverhampton tomorrow is making me feel tired now. Not a good start
  <jacobw> where are you now?
  <bigcalm> Newport, Shropshire
  <bigcalm> I should check time trains
  <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: oh scheiss - that's where the boss lives - you don't know me - never heard of me - i don't exist etc
  <zleap> hi,  got some news today,  computer programming group i suggested to local youth service,  has been approved in principle,  i need to sort out some paperwork, then start to promote / advertise the group
  <Azelphur> zleap: sounds awesome :D
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <jacobw> :D
  <zleap> yep
  <bigcalm> I work from home. Tomorrow is a monthly work place day with some mostly Canonical people
  <jacobw> do you have enough instructors zleap ?
  <zleap> i am going to stick to open source  or free software tools, e.g python,  scratch,  ruby,  etc,  as these are available to everyone,  I am sure Visual studio education edition has restrictions
  <Azelphur> zleap: nice :D
  <Azelphur> +1 for python
  <zleap> jacobw, well i am looking at kids teaching them selves and getting help from peers,   after all the raspberry pi people want to get back to what we had in the 80's where people were self motivated
  <dwatkins> zleap: I like the idea of using free stuffs, hope all goes well :)
  <zleap> however having somewhere to meet up and swap notes,  get help from others is a good thing to teach collaboration
  <jacobw> sounds great
  <zleap> dwatkins, yeah,  well the budget is probably zero, they can install scratch and kidsruby freely
  <dwatkins> I have a friend who teaches ICT, he tries to teach "word processing" as opposed to "how to use MS Word" and other such things
  <zleap> sounds good
  <dwatkins> better to have them learn how stuff works and that the computer is a tool etc. than where to click, I'd say
  <jacobw> i'm not quite what word processing is supposed to be
  <zleap> i am also going to try and get people in to helping with OSS projects as this i think is a good way to show what you can do,  get respect from the community etc
  <Azelphur> zleap: where is this going on?
  <zleap> local youth centre in Paignton
  <dwatkins> zleap: I suspect there will also be a lot of people asking for help fixing computers ;)
  <Azelphur> dam you and your being on the wrong side of England :(
  <dwatkins> I had a reputation where I used to live in a block of flats as the computer guy as I was spotted carrying various SGI machines into the flat when I moved in
  <zleap> yeah,  well this is aimed at young pepple 11+  , oh yeah i got asked for some help yesterday  so could end up fixing things,
  <Azelphur> dwatkins: haha, I have that reputation amongst anyone that knows me, I don't particularly mind
  <Azelphur> I just follow a simple policy, If (windows box) { nope not helping }
  <smittix> COD4 time
  <dwatkins> heh, I'm quite a long way from Paignton - 500 miles
  <Azelphur> barring special circumstances anyway
  <dwatkins> Azelphur: yeah, I don't mind either - it's amusing when I get questions on facebook like "we reset the laptop to factory settings but Vista still boots up, what do we do to reset it?"
  <Azelphur> dwatkins: 266 here :(
  <zleap> Azelphur, i know someone in brixixham like that,,  however he is willing to help fix windows as long as they agree to try Linux,   so far quite a few people have asked for help migrating to Linux as its better
  <Azelphur> dwatkins: haha :D
   * dwatkins is in Edinburgh
  <dwatkins> I'm guessing they'd just reset the BIOS, Azelphur
  <Azelphur> zleap: yea, I'm sort of like that, If you've got a decent reason for sticking to Windows I will generally help, or if your willing to give Linux a shot :)
  <Azelphur> random things, I made a cool IRC bot in python+twisted with in 30 minutes
  <dwatkins> zleap: for these same people, I put Ubuntu on their hard disk as a backup OS, since their kids had managed to riddle Windows with viruses, so they could still get online and do stuff when (not if) it happened again
  <zleap> ideally what i would like to do is bring in external groups,  to give talks,   on related subjects,   or organise events where this can happen,
  <jacobw> what does it use twisted for?
  <Azelphur> jacobw: IRC?
  <Azelphur> twisted being a networking framework and all
  <jacobw> yus
  <Azelphur> lol
  <jacobw> i would have thought python had its own irc modules
  <Azelphur> basically, it can send notifications from pretty much anything to IRC
  <dwatkins> handy
  <zleap> dwatkins, sounds a good plan  I have a stack of Linux cd's here,  from 10.04. 10.10 and some 11.04
  <Azelphur> for example, typing "uptime | irc" in a terminal results in (20:20:53) `TheServer:  15:21:24 up 20 days, 19:52,  3 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.06, 0.09
  <Azelphur> :D
  <dwatkins> zleap: trouble is, they understood windows little enough, Ubuntu confused them as they didn't know what to do with it
  <dwatkins> "Where's the internet, you know, the blue 'e'...?"
  <Azelphur> so I just have a bash script that monitors when game updates are available, and it just echo "Update available" | irc \o/
  <zleap> well if its introduced properly  by people who care (like me) then that may change
  <dwatkins> indeed, zleap :)
  <popey> dwatkins: thats just a user education thing
  <zleap> anyway raspberry PI runs Linux, I want to promote that too
  <popey> i gave ubuntu to a guy who went "Oh, firefox! I know that!"
  <popey> i haven't heard from him since
  <zleap> this is where the open cd is handy  people get used to the same software that is in Linux
  <bigcalm> :(
  <dwatkins> I setup a machine once for someone who insisted on using some hoopy website's software for chatting to people, she'd been on there years. It had its own custom client, but of course was windows-only.
  <dwatkins> I spent hours installing anti-malware software.
  <popey> heh, nice
  <jacobw> show new users a 'hacker' pose of multipe tmux windows on a console with vi open and editting some network stack code and tcpdump capturing something
  <zleap> well the place where i am doing this is literally 5 mins away,  so a  chance of perhaps getting some sort of Ubuntu related event down here,  I want things like bar camps and unconferences too,  so people can showcase what they can do
  <zleap> when i first met with the volujnteer co-ordiator she suggest we have a open day type thing so people interested can come along,  i vision either a hand ful of kids or a huge group turning up,  in the case of teh latter it could change things slightly due to the level of interest
  <AlanBell> Azelphur: can you do tail -f | irc ?
  <Azelphur> AlanBell: haha, I wonder, let me try :P
  <jacobw> should definately
   * jacobw ponders
  <Azelphur> AlanBell: yes, that works :)
  <AlanBell> cool :)
  <AlanBell> can I have a copy?
  <Azelphur> yea sure, It's not too pretty but I'll zip it up :)
  <AlanBell> thanks
   * jacobw is also interested
  <popey> ditto
  <Azelphur> In that case I'll pretty it up a bit and github it
  <jacobw> don't break it! ;)
  <Azelphur> haha
  <AlanBell> I am not too worried about pretty
  <AlanBell> twisted is a good framework
  <Azelphur> well, just enough so that you don't have to dive into the code to get it to do things :P
   * popey resists making jokes about AlanBell and 'pretty'
  <jacobw> i've been messing with perl today
  <jacobw> my brain hurts
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: I mess with perl for a living.
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: My brain doesn't.
  <jacobw> MartijnVdS: i pity thee
  <jacobw> meh meh
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: it pays well ;)
  <jacobw> i like `if ($foo =~ /bar/)` etc
  <jacobw> i prefer the regular expressions in perl to those in python
  <MartijnVdS> What don't you like?
  <jacobw> re.compile(etc)
  <MartijnVdS> no in Perl :)
  <jacobw> oh
  <jacobw> mostly DBI
  <Azelphur> now I actually have to figure out how to use github :D
  <MartijnVdS> DBI is better than how PHP does it. Prepared statements!
  <jacobw> ha
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: also, DBIx::Class makes it even better (ORM)
  <Azelphur> and git, haha
  <jacobw> better than PHP isn't great :p
   * jacobw will look in to that
  <jacobw> also, perl can't decide if its OO or not
  <MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/DBIx::Class
  <jacobw> perhaps perl6 will decide
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: https://metacpan.org/module/Moose is the solution for that problem
  <MartijnVdS> perl6 is dead imho. Or at least a completely separate language
  <jacobw> i'm not sure there's much demand for a new version of perl
  <AlanBell> Azelphur: or launchpad and bzr
  <jacobw> its the modules that people depend on not the language features
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: the 5.*-version is still going strong.
  <Azelphur> AlanBell: haha
  <MartijnVdS> and they're going to do deprecation of the REALLY odd bits
  <jacobw> :)
  <zleap> is there a perl 7 then or is perl 6 an upgrade from perl 5
  <brobostigon> !info perl unstable
  <lubotu3> perl (source: perl): Larry Wall's Practical Extraction and Report Language. In component main, is standard. Version 5.14.2-6 (unstable), package size 3610 kB, installed size 11192 kB (Only available for any all)
  <brobostigon> !info perl experimental
  <lubotu3> 'experimental' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
  <Azelphur> AlanBell jacobw popey https://github.com/Azelphur/Twisted-IRCat here you go :D
  <jacobw> cheers man
  <popey> nice one
  <Azelphur> :)
  <palnj> hi guys :P
  <zleap> hi,  palnj long time no see, how ya doin ?
  <palnj> very well, thanks, zleap
  <zleap> good
  <palnj> i had a ton of coursework to do :P
  <zleap> ah
  <palnj> exams and stuff
  <palnj> Science, mainly
  <zleap> ah
  <zleap> how did they go >
  <zleap> ?
  <palnj> found it proper easy most of the time though :) which was good (obviously)
  <zleap> cool,
  <palnj> i get my results March 16th...so i dont know (yet)
  <AlanBell> thanks Azelphur
  <Azelphur> yw :D
  <zleap> well good luck and hope you did well :)
  <popey>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16731071
  <jacobw> woop woop
  <AlanBell> "When you've been using it for a little while it seems like it's reading your mind, in a good way." if you have the correct sort of mind
  <jacobw> palnj: which science?
  <palnj> jacobw: all three, but only the first three modules
  <jacobw> seperate sciences?
  <palnj> doing modules 4/5/6 for bio/phys/chem at the end of this year and then module 7 (adv. science / applying principles) end of next year :P
  <jacobw> my school did double award when i did my gcses
  <palnj> yep, i'm in year 10
  <jacobw> that sounds great ;)
  <palnj> ah, I do triple Science
  <palnj> Three exams over two years for each Science
  <palnj> So nine exams in total
  <jacobw> are you planning to do science a levels?
  <bigcalm> Made use of the Ubuntu font via google fonts in a new client project. It's still in dev so unlikely to make it to production. But it's pleasing me none the less
  <AlanBell> I put it on all kinds of places as the default font, but not via google fonts
  <gordonjcp> hmm, I tried the HUD on 12.04 but pressing alt just brings up the normal menu
  <gordonjcp> any hints on how to troubleshoot it?
  <AlanBell> yeah, you need faster fingers
  <AlanBell> just a quick tippy tap of the alt key
  <jacobw> sudo apt-get install faster-fingers
  <AlanBell> pebkac
  <gordonjcp> hmm
  <gordonjcp> now I have no menu at all
  <bigcalm> 120 updates for the laptop. Best do this now rather than on iffy wifi in Wolverhampton tomorrow
  <AlanBell> I have had the hud installed all day and have not used it once
  <gordonjcp> okay, restarted X, if I just tap <ALT> I get a brief flash of the normal menu
  <AlanBell> unity3d?
  <popey> gord: is it intentional that if you tap alt, then tap it again to get rid of HUD, the window that has focus loses it?
  <popey> if you press escape instead of alt, you get focus back to your app, but not if you alt, then alt
  <AlanBell> there is a bug about that
  <gord> oh really? i knew about the losing focus thing but didn't know it worked with escape
  <popey> yeah, reproducable
  <AlanBell> gord: are bugs supposed to be in unity now?
  <AlanBell> not indicator-appmenu
  <gord> depends if its a shell bug or a backend bug
  <gord> popey's bug is a shell bug
  <gord> "doesn't find x" is a backend bug
  <AlanBell> ok
  <popey> gord: what should I file this against?
  <AlanBell> bug 921249
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921249 in unity "HUD: Using HUD often results in window losing focus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921249
  <popey> excellent thanks
  <gord> wish i could figure out the power management problems in ubuntu, makes me sad to hear that fan constantly whining whilst if i log in to windows its all silent
  <gord> even if i completely shut down X and any session, it carries on. can't be something in the user space
  <popey> bug 921450
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921450 in xorg (Ubuntu) "nVidia GPU lockup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921450
  <popey> most annoying bug of the moment
  <gordonjcp> ah, it needs to be unity, not unity 2d
  <gord> not quite
  <gord> i'm obviously in unity and i don't get lockups
  <gord> I've seen the youtube causing things to get laggy and unresponsive thing on intel though
  <gordonjcp> sorry, that was in reference to my own lack of HUD
  <gord> felt like it was a memory leak in youtube
  <gord> ah
  <gordonjcp> yeah, I'm on intel graphics
  <gordonjcp> unity 3d doesn't really work
  <gordonjcp> I've been logged in for three minutes and now all four case and CPU fans are screaming at full speed
  <gordonjcp> and the display is nothing but stripy garbage
  <gordonjcp> but HUD is pretty cool
  <gord> your drivers don't work ;)
  <gord> stripy garbage = driver texture corruption
  <gord> especially on intel
  <gordonjcp> yup
  <gordonjcp> I know
  <gordonjcp> is there a way to get normal menus too?
  <gord> menus are there
  <gordonjcp> where?
  <gord> in the top bar? where they always are
  <gordonjcp> nope
  <popey> ooo lightdm has regressed in latest update
  <gordonjcp> they're not there
  <popey> no option for changing session
  <gordonjcp> I had to switch back to Unity 2d
  <gordonjcp> a) the stripy garbage was annoying me, and b) gedit wasn't working well in HUD
  <gordonjcp> nothing from any of the menus come up
  <gordonjcp> well, you can open some files
  <bigcalm> Gosh darn it
  <bigcalm> This Symfony 1.4 project is now 318MB in svn
  <gord> apport is being a pain in the bum tonight :(
  <bigcalm> Must remember to take cash tomorrow morning!
  <popey> bug 921867
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921867 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm regression, possible g-s-d crash, no session menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921867
  <popey> anyone fancy rebooting to see if they get that in 12.04?
  <AlanBell> popey: so you can still log in and get to the desktop right?
  <popey> yes
  <popey> but the desktop looks like it has no theme
  <gordonjcp> hmm
  <gordonjcp> now menus just plain don't appear
  <AlanBell> upgrading now popey
  <gordonjcp> man, this is going to be the fourth reinstall since monday
  <gordonjcp> this is getting pretty old
  <gordonjcp> granted the first two turned out to be due to a failing hard disk
  <gord> you know about ppa purge right? just downgrade your indicator-appmenu
  <gordonjcp> gord: that still leaves me with 12.04
  <gordonjcp> my PC is struggling to run it
  <popey> i forsee myself buying a thinkpad tomorrow
  <gord> if you get an x220, you get to join the rest of us in the secret club
  <gord> no macbooks allowed
  <gordonjcp> I wish I was in a position to buy a PC that can run Ubuntu
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Automated ssh reconnects and handling slow connections - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2012/01/25/automated-ssh-reconnects-and-handling-slow-connections/
  <gordonjcp> y
  <gordonjcp> ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
   * gordonjcp extracts cat
  <AlanBell> and back again
  <popey> AlanBell: you didnt get the issue then?
  <AlanBell> only part of it
  <AlanBell> I updated the bug, the cog thing happened a couple of days ago I think, I wasn't sure if it was a bug or a feature
  <AlanBell> I wish unity stuff would make it more obvious when it is a bug and when it is a feature
  <AlanBell> another bug/feature thing, the close, minimise, maximise buttons on the dash and hud. Are they supposed to look like that?
  <ubuntubhoy> if they can fix it, its a  bug. If they cant, its a feature
  <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: you would think
  <ubuntubhoy> and as for the buttons, not the best design
  <AlanBell> some things based on the results of user testing are rather questionable features
  <ubuntubhoy> HUD you can excuse
  <ubuntubhoy> but dash should be more polished by now
  <AlanBell> you get just the red and white badly anti-aliased outline buttons?
  <ubuntubhoy> yip
  <ubuntubhoy> not updated today though
  <AlanBell> gordonjcp: you will be pleased to know I just lost my menus
  <AlanBell> HUD still works (for small values of works)
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah, it looks like it has potential but it's not *quite* there yet ;-)
  <AlanBell> yeah, which is fine
  <gordonjcp> I ran ppa-purge to get back the non-HUD appmenu
  <AlanBell> there is a mahusive bug in the search at the moment that means if you type a full word it won't find that word
  <gordonjcp> and it really went on what I can only describe as a PCP-fuelled shotgun rampage
  <AlanBell> so it does fuzzy matching great, but you have to be a fuzzy person to use hud
  <gordonjcp> yeah, I noticed that
  <gordonjcp> I still find the matching in the alt-f2 window not exactly great
   * AlanBell is not sufficiently fuzzy to use HUD
  <gordonjcp> type "gnome-terminal" and most of the time you'll get "gnome-calculator"
  <mgdm_> Does it cater for the "I don't know what I'm looking for but I'll know when I find it so I'm reading all the menus" use case?
  <mgdm_> Because without that, I can't work GUI apps
  <gordonjcp> in fact, as I just found out there, I can repeatably get it to do this
  <AlanBell> mgdm_: no, it caters for the "um, think it is called options or something like that" use case
  <gordonjcp> press alt-f2, type "gnome-terminal", wait for 30 seconds or so until it finishes searching, click on the gnome-terminal icon, and it starts gnome-calculator
  <AlanBell> actually the "I think it is called opti or something like that" use case. "Options" won't work
  <mgdm_> AlanBell: hmmmm
  <gordonjcp> I really just want alt-f2 to work the way it did in Gnome 2, or XFCE, or if you're using lxpanel
  <mgdm_> AlanBell: what about typing 'Preferences' when the app calls it 'Options', or vice-versa?
  <AlanBell> mgdm_: the discoverable menus are still there
  <mgdm> aaaah, ok
  <mgdm> I misread
  <AlanBell> mgdm: that should in theory work or be made to work
  <AlanBell> as long as you call it preferen
  <mgdm> I do find that when I'm on the Mac, 90% of the time I forget about the dock and just use Spotlight or occasionally Alfred to start things
  <mgdm> so I can imagine it would work for me, but I want my pointy-clicky fallback :-)
  <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/hudcontrols.png are those the min/max/close buttons other people see on the dash/hud?
  <ubuntubhoy> as an additional interface option it might prove useful, just as long as it is not intended to replace anything
  <ubuntubhoy> AlanBell, yeah
  <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: I don't see how it can replace menus, it relies on the applications being designed to have menus in order to work
  <AlanBell> I can imagine people using it in preference to menus most of the time
  <ubuntubhoy> for me its a kinda Ubutnu Gnome Do thingy
  <ubuntubhoy> in that way it will work well I think
  <ubuntubhoy> better integration & more scope
  <gordonjcp> right, off to reinstall
  <AlanBell> it is a neat trick, but not massively compelling
  <AlanBell> lenses are a bigger deal
  <AlanBell> just wish they would provide a framework for doing lenses that require authentication
  <ubuntubhoy> weird, net split on every other channel I'm on but here, and this is the busiest
  <AlanBell> it is a bit splitty today
  <gordonjcp> I know 12.04 is only an alpha but I really hope that's nothing like representative of the finished version
  <ubuntubhoy> still 3 months to go
  <popey> 2.5 âº
  <gordonjcp> I tried it on a new PC at work
  <gordonjcp> it's *just about* usable on an i5 with 4G of RAM
  <ubuntubhoy> popey, I always wait a couple of weeks before downloading or updating installs that I need :d
  <popey> heh
  <gordonjcp> my desktop at home is somewhat behind the curve, being a 3GHz P4 with 2G of RAM
  <popey> works fine on my 2.2GHz laptop
  <popey> pretty snippy
  <popey> dual core though, which I guess helps
  <AlanBell> Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU       M 330  @ 2.13GHz works well
  <gordonjcp> popey: on my desktop it sits at 100% CPU usage and 100% RAM usage, with just the desktop and a single terminal
  <popey> sweet
  <gordonjcp> all the fans screaming away full blast
  <ubuntubhoy> lol
  <ubuntubhoy> works ok on my netbook
  <AlanBell> Cpu(s):  2.6%us,  2.1%sy,  0.0%ni, 95.3%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
  <popey> bedlington
  <popey> nn all
  <popey> Cpu(s):  1.7%us,  0.3%sy,  0.0%ni, 97.8%id,  0.2%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
  <popey> with firefox, 2 terminals and thunderbird open
  <popey> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz
  <popey> :D
  <gordonjcp> yeah, it would be nice if Ubuntu could be run on something other than the latest and greatest
  <gordonjcp> ;-)
  <AlanBell> I do have 8GB ram, and it is using 3233 of it
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah, if it's going to take that much memory I'll switch distros
  <gordonjcp> I don't like Unity *that* much
  <AlanBell> I dunno what it is doing with the ram, I do have a few applications open, no virtual machines though
  <gordonjcp> urgh, I give up
  <gordonjcp> I need some stuff packaged for Ubuntu
  <gordonjcp> who wants paid to do it?
  <AlanBell> and I am driving a reasonably large desktop http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/desktop.png
  <AlanBell> is it stuff that can go into Debian first?
  <gordonjcp> maybe
  <gordonjcp> ie. there's nothing stopping it going into Debian first
  <gordonjcp> apart from the sheer opacity of the debian packaging process
  <AlanBell> yeah, it does rather expect you to know 20 years of evolution
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-26
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: contrast with packaging for Arch...
  <AlanBell> Arch is a real mixed bag of a project
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: take a sample PKGBUILD file, fill in the blanks, run makepkg
  <gordonjcp> if you're doing it properly you do a test build in a clean chroot so it ensures that all deps are pulled in correctly
  <gordonjcp> some of the packages in Ubuntu aren't very good at that
  <gordonjcp> jackd for example is pretty fundamentally on drugs
  <gordonjcp> install jackd2, it pulls in qjackctl and all the Qt deps
  <gordonjcp> *why*?
  <AlanBell> better than the rpm based distros in general I think
  <AlanBell> Arch has some quite good documentation, but the project ethos of being self-centred as possible kind of encourages a pretty toxic community from what I have seen of it
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: mh
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's pretty much the same as any distro
  <gordonjcp> 99.9% of the people involved just get on with it, and then there are 0.1% of noisy arseholes who make a nuisance of themselves
  <AlanBell> yeah, might be that I only bump into the 0.1%
  <gordonjcp> it doesn't help that #archlinux gets periodically crapflooded by people going "ZOMG N000BZORS USE UBUNTU1!!1!!1!!! LOLZ LOLZ LOLZ"
  <AlanBell> they are not the residents?
  <AlanBell> maybe those are the people I bump into
  <gordonjcp> no
  <AlanBell> I had a look on their mailing list earlier to see what that was like, seemed to be a big discussion about how to make it less user friendly
  <AlanBell> I am curious to know where the people who write the good documentation are
  <directhex> oh, i have another example
  <directhex> install any app that uses ffmpeg, it pulls in DECNET support for networking of PDP11s
  <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I don't know, I think it's far more user-friendly than Ubuntu
  <gordonjcp> it's a lot easier to install
  <gordonjcp> none of this tedious mucking about with unetbootin and then having a weirdly broken-looking textmode installer that just sits there for ten minutes apparently doing nothing
  <ubuntubhoy> I actually only have 1 issue with the Ubuntu installer, it never imports users from other Ubuntu installs for me
  <ubuntubhoy> but that could be because I usually only have single user setups
  <gordonjcp> ubuntubhoy: I don't like the horrible unetbootin menu thing
  <gordonjcp> because it doesn't give you any feedback that it's actually doing anything
  <gordonjcp> has it hung? is it just slow? is it supposed to take ten minutes?
  <gordonjcp> the trick is to use a USB stick with an access LED on it
  <directhex> why on earth would you use unetbootin?
  <gordonjcp> directhex: because the iso doesn't work if you just dd it to a usb stick
  <ubuntubhoy> I kinda agree on unetbootin, but it is so damn handy
  <ubuntubhoy> and I always use usb over disk
  <ubuntubhoy> plus USB creator has only ever worked on a few of my installs
  <gordonjcp> I've never managed to get usb creator to create anything that resembled a bootable disk
  <gordonjcp> I mean, I've got an iso, ran usb-creator, examined the stick afterwards and there is *nothing* that even vaguely looks like any sane BIOS could boot it
  <ubuntubhoy> lol
  <ubuntubhoy> mostly it just refuses to do anything for me
  <ubuntubhoy> just craps out
  <gordonjcp> yeah
   * AlanBell sees a gord bug making headlines at OMG
  <gordonjcp> I mean why isn't there just an image that you can write to a USB stick?
  <gordonjcp> why have the extra step of making an iso, that needs to be converted back to something that'll go on a USB drive?
  <gordonjcp> I guess it means that you can write a CD-R with it
  <gordonjcp> presumably travelling back in time to when you could buy blank CD-Rs and drives to use them with is left as an exercise for the user
  <gordonjcp> it's bizarre, there are images for booting from legacy optical media, but not from 9-track magtape?
  <ubuntubhoy> hmm, Biffy Clyro headlining Rock Ness
  <gordonjcp> a) biffy clyro, b) Inverness
  <ubuntubhoy> c) good times
  <gordonjcp> chuck in some people with beaded dreadlocks and you've got a perfect storm of awful
  <ubuntubhoy> lol
  <gordonjcp> and I've probably got to do some tech for the <word I won't use on #ubuntu-uk> too
  <ubuntubhoy> are non-beaded dreadlocks ok then
  <gordonjcp> yes because when you set them on fire you don't get hit by bead shrapnel
  <gordonjcp> music festivals *suck* these days
  <ubuntubhoy> but dreadlock beads tend to be plastic - so you get melt burn as well
  <gordonjcp> bloody jugglers and facepainters everywhere and then charging five quid for a lukewarm can of Tennents
  <cpnangil^> hmm
  <cpnangil^> can anyone help me decipher some old handwritten text?
  <gordonjcp> and a half-cooked burger that's been lying in a tupperware box in direct sunlight all morning growing botulinum toxin
  <ubuntubhoy> old as in 1970's ?
  <gordonjcp> cpnangil^: how old?
  <gordonjcp> and where are you?
  <cpnangil^> Im in boston
  <ubuntubhoy> obviously Ubuntu-UK makes sense then
  <cpnangil^> claims to be from 1662
  <gordonjcp> cpnangil^: I know a paleographic analyst
  <gordonjcp> cpnangil^: if you can get up to Edinburgh she may be able to help you out
  <gordonjcp> it's just up the A1
  <gordonjcp> she will want paid though. You may have to buy her some very nice shoes.
  <cpnangil^> http://i.imgur.com/6bDf7.jpg
  <cpnangil^> I can figure it partially
  <ubuntubhoy> you got the original
  <ubuntubhoy> keck, build crashed again
  <ubuntubhoy> time for baw, baws - laters
  <Azelphur> jacobw popey AlanBell for when you guys wake up, added a bunch of stuff including XMPP support, https://github.com/Azelphur/TwistedCat :D
  <Azelphur> (netcat to your android phone, because I can!)
  <gord> AlanBell, not a bug :P
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <DJones> Morning all
  <daubers> Morning
  <MooDoo> join #smugmug
  <MooDoo> oops
  <gord> MooDoo, is very proud of his mug
  <daubers> gord: I see HUD made the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16731071
  <gord> neat
  <MooDoo> gord: smug tastic :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone - Howdidoodee?
  <AlanBell> gord: not a bug? I think you are over-weighting the centre pixel
  <davmor2> czajkowski: you idle get wake up, morning prod :P
  <MooDoo> davmor2: be warned she's not having much fun on the tube at the moment :D
  <popey> ooh, my themes have disappeared
  <davmor2> MooDoo:  oh joy
  <popey> ok, so i suspect I have the same thing that happened to gordonjcp
  <popey> the theme was removed yesterday and it defaulted back to some other theme and moved the buttons to the right
  <popey> maybe
  <popey> yay, ubuntu-desktop was missing
   * popey installs a zillion missing packages
  <oimon> alpha ubuntu is alpha :P
  <popey> gord: hud does sometimes annoyingly pop up when i alt-tab
  <popey> after I have alt-tabbed to another window, the window appears and I start typing and it ends up in the hud, not the app
  <oimon> you've been hud-winked
  <JamesTait> Good morning all!
  <MooDoo> morning
  <daubers> Oh finder, why are you so pants
  <gord> popey, yeah alt is tricky, alt tab slower for now
  <davmor2> I blame czajkowski for these noise school kids ruining our co-working space
  <gord> AlanBell, so you know the code splits the image up in to quadrants right, well what it does is it tests those quadrants to see if there is a lot of difference, if there is, it delves in to them more. by altering a specific pixel you trick the code in to investigating those quadrants more, i think it will go up to 8 levels deeper. point is that by changing that pixel, you trick the code in to paying way more attention there. its not a bug, its an exploit
  <gord> the "fix" would be to just do the simple average every pixel approach, but thats way to slow
  <bigcalm_lappy> Hazar, I is 'ere!
  <bigcalm_lappy> There's a silly school trip visiting the Light House today. It might be saner to converse via IRC
  <daubers> https://twitter.com/#!/daubers/status/162473275044282368/photo/1 <- Why I dispise finder on osx
  <bigcalm_lappy> Poor Alex is the only one not in channel
  <gord> that pretty much ruins the point
  <oimon> daubers: the first file is in RAID1 :D
  <daubers> oimon: :p
  <oimon> actually btrfs will allow you to do that
  <daubers> The first file is actually on a raid6
  <daubers> the second file is on the macs internal drive
  <daubers> same file just copied across
  <AlanBell> gord: it goes 16 levels deep, the point is that the centre pixel is shared by all 4 of the first level quadrants so it gets counted 4 times
  <oimon> hmmm...having a facebook for the enterprise (yammer) seems to be an excuse to spend all day on it
  <bigcalm_lappy> Nutella?
  <oimon> constant streams of gubbins coming from corporate services types
  <AlanBell> gord: the fix would be to make the quadrants 1px smaller all round, so the top left one would be 1,1 to centreX-1,centreY-1 rather than 0,0 to centreX,centreY
  <gord> AlanBell, patches welcome
  <AlanBell> gord: sure, do you agree with my thinking?
  <gord> AlanBell, if they are *all* reduced by one pixel around, it'll always pick different pixels, which will stop the exploit sure
  <gord> well, i could still exploit it ;) but yeah
  <AlanBell> yeah, a diagonal cross in the centre would still do it
  <andylockran> howdy all
  <popey> gnnnnn
  <popey> my laptop is unusable now, these GPU lockups are driving me nuts
  <oimon> getting spammed from sony psn because some numpty got his email address wrong on christmas day
  <andylockran> anyone have recommendations for a CRM - Sugar looks interesting but be interesting to see what other people do?
  <oimon> can't unsubscribe
  <popey> i have the same problem from microsoft xbox
  <Daviey> popey: mbp7,1 GPU lockups?
  <oimon> i regularly get flight tickets, share dividend notices, loads of stuff from my similarly named eejit twins
  <popey> yes Daviey
  <Daviey> popey: odd.. using non-free?
  <popey> yes
  <Daviey> popey: not that this helps, but graphics are fine for me :/.
  <popey> bug 921450
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921450 in xorg (Ubuntu) "nVidia GPU lockup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921450
  <Daviey> popey: in other news, the sound bug your reported was fixed day before yesterday
  <popey> which sound bug?
   * popey looks at the lenovo site
  <oimon> popey: are you monitoring the gpu temperature?
  <Daviey> popey: the sound issue on the mbp
  <Daviey> bug 909419
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 909419 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Several MacBooks (with PCI SSID 10de:cb89)] Choppy sound. Videos play double speed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/909419
  <popey> oh that one âº
  <Daviey> popey: what is your fan doing?
  <popey> not much
  <popey> can you get gpu temps from the cli?
  <Daviey> popey: hmm, i seem to have lost /proc/acpi/thermal_zone
  <popey> i dont have that either Daviey
  <Laney> oh awesome, I had that sound bug too
  <Laney> silly macbooks
  <Daviey> dave@voodoo:~$ sudo nvidia-settings -q [gpu:0]/GPUCoreTemp 2>/dev/null | grep Attribute Attribute 'GPUCoreTemp' (voodoo:0[gpu:0]): 56.
  <Daviey> line wrap fail
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <Daviey> dave@voodoo:~$ sudo nvidia-settings -q [gpu:0]/GPUCoreTemp 2>/dev/null | grep Attribute
  <Daviey>   Attribute 'GPUCoreTemp' (voodoo:0[gpu:0]): 56.
  <czajkowski> davmor2: ello my dear
  <gord> popey, nvidia-settings --query 0/gpucoretemp
  <popey> that requires X âº
  <popey> which is currently dead
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prodity prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod
  <davmor2> czajkowski: oh bigcalm says prod too
  <gord> popey, yeah but this is nvidia ;) they don't really do nice open source ways of doing things
  <bigcalm_lappy> I was wondering why that didn't highlight
  <popey> heh
  <bigcalm_lappy> Then I notice my nickname as I'm away from home
  <bigcalm_lappy> Hi peeps :)
  <popey> gord: which x220? i5?
  <gord> popey, i have an i3 x220, i think they go up to i5/i7 though
  <gord> only real recommendation is the IPS screen and as much ram as you can fit in it
  <bigcalm_lappy> How much are they?
  <bigcalm_lappy> Ballpark figure
  <gord> depends, anywhere from 600-1500 last i checked
  <bigcalm_lappy> Yikes
  <bigcalm_lappy> This i3 dell poop was just over 500 quid
  <oimon> they do a tablet version
  <bigcalm_lappy> Regret it every time I turn it on
   * daubers got an i5 samsung for Â£400
  <popey> yeah, sladen has the tablet version
  <oimon> i like my dell lappy. served me well and still going god
  <oimon> /od/ood
  <bigcalm_lappy> This is a 1st gen i3
  <Daviey> popey: you /need/ X?
  <Daviey> popey: well do you have SSH?
  <popey> heh
  <popey> gord: IPS screen?
  <Dave2> Can you get IPS screens in laptops?
  <Daviey> ssh -X alan@pos-laptop :)
  <gord> popey, yeah, its really nice, basically has unlimited viewing angles
  <gord> was only a few quid more when i checked
   * Dave2 spent ages tracking down a laptop that wasn't 1366x768, didn't even try to find one that wasn't TN
  <sladen> Dave2: yes, but not with the capacitive finger touch on the X220 tablet version
  <sladen> Dave2: there aren't any.  Give up;  all of the displays are not  1024x768 panels, cut a bit wider
  <sladen> s/not/now/
  <popey> gord: http://popey.com/~alan/Selection_001.png
  <gord> popey, "premium"
  <Dave2> sladen: I got a 1600x900 laptop, still not great, but I wasn't willing to buy 1366x768
  <popey> gord: 6 or 9 cell?
  <gord> popey, 9 cell will go 10 hours if ubuntu's not screwing up the power management like it always is ;) i got 9 cell
  <popey> heh
  <Daviey> gord: was it Ubuntu that broke power management?
  <bigcalm_lappy> Replace the spinning rust with an SSD and improve the battery life anyway?
  <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/x220.png  <- not cheap
  <gord> Daviey, it was *fantastic* the week before platform sprint. amazing, wonderful - https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/112811220238447511854/albums/5693907288078855329/5693907286109635026 - but then kernel 3.2 dropped during platform sprint and i was back to 4-5 hours
  <popey> sladen / gord comments on the above spec?
  <oimon> what's that "web price" ?
  <oimon> marketing gimmick?
  <gord> popey, you might not need the i7, the i3 does just fine for me - chances are you can get the ram cheaper on amazon or ebuyer too. ssd is almost certainly worth it - i'm waiting for UDS and will pick up one there
  <czajkowski> oimon: no it's a price for buying via the web as some places dont stop them or you do get a better price for buying things online
  <czajkowski> mine is a i5
  <Daviey> gord: I wonder if that is Ubuntu's fault or mainline kernel regression? :)
  <gord> Daviey, well the confusing bit is that if i go back to the old kernel i don't get my power back.. very weird
  <andylockran> interesting
  <popey> gord: problem with buying RAM elsewhere is I'll end up with sticks of RAM 'spare' that I'll never use
  <andylockran> I''ve got a lovely ssd, love it
  <gord> popey, desk shrapnel
  <popey> haha
  <popey> hmm, maybe downgrade CPU, switch to SSD
  <Daviey> gord: wow
  <Daviey> that is nuts.
  <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/192734-lenovo-256gb-thinkpad-sdd-1-8-sata-ii-read-230mb-s-write-43n3417
  <popey> lolwut
  <gord> yeah... ssds are expensive
  <gord> http://www.ebuyer.com/318420-samsung-128gb-830-series-ssd-2-5-sata-ii-laptop-upgrade-kit-mz-7pc128n-eu is what i am after
  <oimon> usually Â£1 per gb
  <popey> will that fit in your thinkpad?
  <gord> i have been told it does ;)
  <gord> i will need to do further investigation at some point
  <gord> there was a thread about it on warthogs some time ago
  <popey> lenovo website is sucking
  <popey> "You are now leaving Lenovo's website and being redirected to the website of Digital River, the seller and merchant of record."
  <popey> time passes
  <oimon> you were hit by a grue
  <Daviey> No Guru Mediation error?
  <bigcalm_lappy> Somebody kill davmor2 now
  <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 is looking lovingly at gord
  <bigcalm_lappy> At least it looks like that to me
   * smittix prods MooDoo 
  <smittix> Thanks for the ticket update MooDoo heh
  <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: is suddenly unable to see his screen as his fingers break it as I slam his lid down on his fingers
  <czajkowski> tut tut such violence
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: you love it
   * bigcalm_lappy sips his coffee quitely
  <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/169923-tenda-wireless-n150-access-point-router-extender-w311r-
  <popey> interesting device
  <popey> 3 year warranty price is interesting
  <gord> Â£12 quid? hard to trust
  <oimon> pics look v cheap quality
  <_x_X_X_x_> hii
  <oimon> basically it's a wireless AP that supports bridging?
  <_x_X_X_x_> how i can change group and owner from root to www-data?
  <oimon> chown www-data:www-data <dir name>
  <oimon> use -R for recursive changes
  <bigcalm_lappy> If the group name is the same as the username, you can omit the group name
  <bigcalm_lappy> www-data:
  <TheOpenSourcerer> technically correct would be:
  <TheOpenSourcerer> sudo chown -R www-data: dir_tree_to_chown
  <oimon> hmm http://boingboing.net/2012/01/25/insane-english-copyright-rulin.html
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Man my broadband is sick today: "Firefox can't find the server at www.google.co.uk."
  <oimon> or is it your dns?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - loads of dropped packets on the adsl.
  <oimon> virgin?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> dns is google ;-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Nope [cough, cough] talktalkbusiness
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to be on Pipex years ago - they have been bought, then the acquiree was bought and so forth until now I'm on talktalk and they are not optimal IMHO - But where I live I can't get much better from anyone anyway so it's rather moot really.
  <popey> your area not cabled?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah CABLE! My telephone lines are aluminium...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> We are on an exchange that BT don't think exists as far as supporting anything more that plain old adsl2
  <heeed> owdo
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Yet - I live in one of the most affluent parishes/boroughs in the country... Just there is too much space and not enough big houses I guess ;-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Will find this interesting http://www.information-age.com/channels/the-cloud-and-virtualization/news/1680113/hillingdon-council-puts-3500-staff-on-google-apps.thtml
  <popey> heeed: hey!
  <popey> Lunchtime!
  <heeed> still whinging about the cable?
  <heeed> +1 for lunchtime
  <gord> lunchtime?
  <gord> not yet
  <popey> not me heeed âº
   * popey loves his cable
  <bigcalm_lappy> popey: you can now find out when you'll be getting 60mb
  <popey> oh, how?
  <bigcalm_lappy> The checker tells be October
  <bigcalm_lappy> Go to my.vm
  <bigcalm_lappy> There it a link on there
  <oimon> joey @ omg does a great job around alpha/beta time of giving a round up of new features for those who are running alphas
  <oimon> nice to know what to gcheck with each apt-get
  <Oli> Skyrim for Â£20 on the PC/Wine http://www.greenmangaming.co.uk/games/rpgs/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-uk/
  <Oli> (It's not from Steam but They give you a Steam key)
  <Myrtti> Why can't Dell sell their laptops with Ubuntu in UK like they do in US? :-<
  <oimon> Myrtti: which model?
  <oimon> if you ask, they sometimes do.
  <popey> i see no link bigcalm_lappy
  <popey> bah
  <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: heh, so *thats* what they did in the end
  <Myrtti> oimon: dell vostro v131
  <oimon> Myrtti: looks nice. always worth asking them
  <oimon> i've managed it on desktops
  <bigcalm_lappy> popey: log in and it'll hit you with a pop over
  <oimon> well, i manage to get no-OS rather that windows
  <oimon> vendors do seem to be cashing in on SSD ..prices seem high when purchased with a machine
  <bigcalm_lappy> I'm logged in, give me your postcode
  <smittix> Does anyone know how OMGUbuntu get away with using ubunu in their domain name?
  <AlanBell> smittix: they asked I think
  <smittix> AlanBell: Ahh ok. I asked too and got refused :/
  <bigcalm_lappy> Oh, just go to: http://doublespeed.virginmedia.com/
  <smittix> That was a few years ago though
   * AlanBell has haggis & eggs for lunch
  <popey> oooo!
  <popey> I have haggis, you just reminded me
  <popey> yay!
  <AlanBell> haggis & eggs is a great combination
  <AlanBell> probably even works with shop eggs ;)
  <bigcalm_lappy> I want haggis
  <popey> yeah, I can imagine that
  <bigcalm_lappy> But doubt I'll get it in this cafe
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - Lunch... Curry, Curry or... Ah I Know. CURRY!
  <oimon> smittix: a few yrs ago, it was OK for .co.uk
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Or maybe Oxtail Soup.
  <popey> smittix: there is no 'getting away with' using ubuntu in the domain name, anyone can
  <popey> there is a trademark policy
  <popey> which is pretty permissive
  <JGJones> smittix - the actual truth is that they've got certain photos that shouldn't be exposed ;-)
  <Neoti_Laptop> hi im having problems with rendering in kdenlive
  <Neoti_Laptop> when i record a screen cast with gtk-recordmydesktop and view the ogv file everything looks fine, when i put it in to kdenlive i get little gray blocks and the text is all distorted on when i view it with clip monitor. any ideas ?
  <Neoti_Laptop>  i have created a profile to match my monitor size and fps etc...
  <Neoti_Laptop> any help ?
  <popey> I have never had much success editing ogv files in any editor really
  <popey> one reason I switched from recordmydesktop to kazam
  <popey> KAZAM!
  <popey> should have an exclamation in the name
  <Neoti_Laptop> how do i get that ? is it windows ?
  <popey> no, linux
  <popey> !kazam
  <popey> bah
  <AlanBell> like Joomla!
  <popey> and Yahoo!
  <smittix> popey: I got told by someone from Canonical that I couldn't use the name Ubuntu in my domain name.
  <popey> https://launchpad.net/kazam
  <popey> smittix: depends what you're doing on the domain
  <popey> given how many people who work for canonical read omg, I don't think they have a problem
  <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
  <smittix> This was a few years back with the same time of site that OMG has become.
  <smittix> It was called UbuntuHOW
  <popey> i remember that
  <gord> hey me too
  <gord> we should get the How2 guys to do something on ubuntu
  <AlanBell> smittix: I suspect OMG started out then said "we have 30,000 readers, can we use the trademark?"
  <smittix> True, although I had a fair number of readers too.
  <smittix> I downed the site anyway and tried something else.
  <popey> can someone else try and buy a laptop from shop.lenovo.com, just go as far as adding it to the basket and try to pay
  <popey> you wont get to the enter credit card stuff i suspect
  <popey> checkout.lenovo.com is dead
  <AlanBell> smittix: a read of the trademark policy does make your questions entirely understandable, they are squarely in the "very unlikely" definition
  <smittix> Permission from us is necessary to use any of the Trademarks under any circumstances other than those specifically permitted above. These include: Use in a domain name or URL.
  <smittix> Yeah
  <smittix> Nevermind. I hope my new domain name gets a decent response. heh
  <popey> ubuntuwhy.com? âº
  <gord> popey, don't be tempted by third party sites though, they add Â£500 to the price
  <smittix> heh nixaddict.com
  <AlanBell> smittix: I raised the question with trademarks ages and ages ago, if Canonical wanted to force OMG to rebrand they would have done it by now
  <smittix> AlanBell: Ok
  <popey> given sabdfl likes the site, thats not going to happen really is it?
  <bigcalm_lappy> Tabs are not a good thing to have
  <popey> gord: do you have the one with the camera?
  <gord> popey, yup, not a bad camera
  <popey> the 720p one?
  <gord> doesn't seem to be, but cheese is hanging
  <popey> nice
  <gord> oh wait yes it is
  <oimon> You are now leaving Lenovo's website and being redirected to the website of Digital River, the seller and merchant of recor
  <Neoti_Laptop> ok how do i use kazam... just recorded a test but can not find the file ...
  <Neoti_Laptop> :P
  <gord> popey, http://ubuntuone.com/0mRbkT6uMdwLPeoG7jsABu - quality involved
  <popey> haha
  <oimon> popey: is there a phone number in the site?
  <oimon> fails for me too
  <popey> dunno oimon but I expect nothing will be fixed until america properly wakes up
  <oimon> joy
  <gord> davmor2, just plays games all day, easiest job in the world
  <Neoti_Laptop> popey where does kazam store its recordings theres no prompts nothing to say when its placed the file ?
  <popey> Neoti_Laptop: it prompts you when you finish recording
  <popey> edit or save
  <popey> choose save, then it pops up a usual dialog
  <Neoti_Laptop> ok i dont have either option on my screen and just recorded 2 videos...
  <popey> odd
  <popey> maybe ask in #kazam
  <davmor2> gord: I have to read books too
  <Neoti_Laptop> i have latest ubuntu with unity etc... i have no options i just recorded another 10 sec video thinking i must have missed it or been thick but nope nothing i have pause, finissh , record set up ... nothing else ..
  <popey> its under active development
  <popey> you may have found a bug
  <Neoti_Laptop> lol.... everything i touch at the moment seems to have a bug ... :P .... doh!
  <popey> âº
  <Neoti_Laptop> i want to record my screen and edit it with kdenlive ... the pgv file in mplayer looks fine kkdenlive it fooking it up .... all i want to do is add some titles thats it ... agh!!!
  <Neoti_Laptop> *ogv
  <Neoti_Laptop> the videos i have watchedc on vimeo and youtube show it working fine... but for me it dont fooking work .... and i followed them to the letter....
  <Neoti_Laptop> im of to get some food as im now getting grouchy and fooked off with this ... lol ... sorry guys .. just want it to work ...
  <mgdm> Anyone here using Cinnamon as their desktop?
  <Daviey> mgdm: No, but i did have cinnamon on my ice cream the other day.
  <ubuntubhoy> I had it in a shot, Fireball. Lovely
  <ubuntubhoy> Cinnamon & whisky shot, real nice
   * popey is reminded of all those videos of people eating a teaspoon of cinnamon
  <daubers> back in the day we went to war so they could have a teaspoon of cinnamon
  <daubers> Or was it nutmeg..... might have been both
  <oimon_> wasn't that dune?
   * czajkowski is reminded of the song, just a spoon full of sugar....
  <daubers> We went to war with the dutch over nutmeg, so maybe I was thinking of that
   * Guest72520 test
  <Guest72520> argh
  <Guest72520> i thought i'd try irssi instead of pidgin - how can i get nickserv to use my nick?
  <Guest72520> though it was / msg nickserv identify user pass
  <mgdm> try /nick yournick
  <daubers> yup, but you need to change your nick first
  <Guest72520> it's ignoring me
  <daubers> still signed in somewhere else?
  <Guest72520> no
  <Guest72520> get no response from nickserv
  <Guest72520> i'll try more brutal tactics..
  <DJones> A bit worrying when Symantec go public and say stop using our software http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16740153?
  <davmor2> hmmmmmmm currryyyyyyyyyyy
  <ubuntubhoy> Edwina ?
  <oimon_> man ,irc is a dark art
  <davmor2> No real curry fro dinner
  <davmor2> for even
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod afternoon
  <czajkowski> davmor2: oi oi
  <MooDoo> czajkowski: davmor2 PROD POKE PROD to you both
  <czajkowski> MooDoo: ello
   * davmor2 tickles czajkowski 
  <czajkowski> I haz no tickles :/
   * bigcalm_lappy hugs czajkowski
   * czajkowski locks bigcalm_lappy davmor2 and MooDoo in a room together 
  <bigcalm_lappy> :o
  <bigcalm_lappy> What did I do wrong to deserve that?
   * MooDoo smashes out of the room with davmor2 as a battering ram and give czajkowski a big kiss on the cheek :) xx
  <davmor2> czajkowski: but then the three of us can plot against you together you sure that's a good move :P
  <bigcalm_lappy> This place has become colder now that mrevil has left
  <czajkowski> lack of body heat
  <czajkowski> cuddle davmor2
  <davmor2> oi get off you weirdo
  <bigcalm_lappy> I think gord might complain
  <bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: davmor2 is picking on me!
  <czajkowski> have you been paying attention all this time, pick on him!
  <davmor2> czajkowski: speak English woman I know you're Irish and all that, and I know my English sucks but hey.......
   * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
   * AlanBell wonders about beer in Farnham soonish
  <bigcalm_lappy> 3pm?
  <AlanBell> well, maybe not that soon
  <TheOpenSourcerer> make it 4 and you're on
  <oimon_> raspberry pi featured on radio 4
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, I heard that too oimon_
  <davmor2> MOOOOOOOOO!
  <MooDoo> davmor2: behave woman :)
  <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: is just praising you all apart from czajkowski
  <AlanBell> beer in London thursday/friday next week might work too
  <czajkowski> nest thursday
  <czajkowski> is good before fosdem train on friday ;)
  <AlanBell> yes, next thursday is good, TheOpenSourcerer and I have a vTiger day then
  <oimon_> hope we'll see some good python and C courses coming out of RPi
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: the cask ?
  <daubers> tempted to get a few rpi's and try and run some basic programming courses at the hacksapce
  <daubers> directhex: Minecraft 1.2 will have new LWJGL
  <AlanBell> czajkowski: cask is OK, I think we are in goodge street
  <AlanBell> anywhere central is good
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: the surrey lot may know of somethign closer I only know that one and the fact you can book tables
  <Barry> t
  <directhex> daubers, they said that for beta 1.3 or so
  <directhex> daubers, i still have a bug open
  <oimon_> is software-center crashiness in 12.04 alpha a known issue?
  <popey> AlanBell: next thursday i can probably make too
  <directhex> Daniel Kaplan (Official Rep) 10 months ago
  <directhex> This will be fixed in 1.5. We have updated lwjgl Sorry for the trouble.
  <DJones> directhex: From the latest release notes, "As you know, Minecraft is run using the Light-weight Java Game Library (LWJGL). Weâve been using a really old version of LWJGL because last time we tried to update it the game broke down and became unplayable for a lot of people. We are going to try to update it again once we release Minecraft 1.2."
  <directhex> DJones, "once we release 1.2" means "after 1.2 is out"
  <daubers> directhex: :)
  <DJones> directhex: cynic :)
  <bigcalm_lappy> Coppers in here, oh mu
  <bigcalm_lappy> my
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Wow - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/26/windows_azure_money_maker_not/ MS making $60m on Azure... Bet they spent more on those "Cloud Power" ads on London Underground...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry, not making, but revenue figure
  <bigcalm_lappy> Well, copper, singular
  <smittix> hmm Dia is pretty good.
  <smittix> I now have a digital diagram of our racks heh
   * oimon holds down the super key in precise, gets a nice surprise
  <AlanBell> the overlay shortcut guide :)
  <oimon> i was talking to someone on the train who said he had to stop using unity because the shortcuts overrode his normal ones :-\
  <directhex> i killed the super key thing in unity
  <directhex> it broke gnome do
  <oimon> yeah i think my friend only ever used terminal & an IDe
  <ali1234> who is good for registering domains?
  <ali1234> i want a .tv
  <oimon> symantec advises disabling PC anywhere after it's code was 'open sourced' ..good confidence in a product there
  <zleap> hello
  <popey> oimon: old code
  <zleap> oimon, was thjs relaed to anonomous saying they had got hold of the source code and were going to publically release it
  <oimon> zleap, it wasn't anonymous but someone who found old code on some indian military(?) servers
  <zleap> ah
  <zleap> pc anywere thats the remote access stuff right
  <gord> ali1234, gandi.net are pretty great, not sure if they do .tv though
  <ali1234> they do
  <ali1234> and they are the cheapest i've seen yet
  <gord> good service with them
  <DJones> oimon: The latest advice from Symantec says that the stolen material had included blueprints for Norton Antivirus Corporate Edition, Norton Internet Security, Norton SystemWorks (Norton Utilities and Norton GoBack) and pcAnywhere.
  <AlanBell> "blueprints"
  <AlanBell> media dumbed down term for source code
  <zleap> I will probably send for a pack of 100 12.04 cd's when available
  <zleap> to me software blue print would be a piece of paper where someone has say sketched out what the UI would look like,
  <AlanBell> zleap: I can give you a heap of CDs
  <zleap> ok cool
  <AlanBell> where are you based?
  <zleap> well if I get this computer group set up, i will look in to that
  <zleap> Paignton
  <AlanBell> ok, if you can figure out how to get them from Farnham or London you can have them
  <zleap> ok, what would the postage be ?
  <zleap> given to buy 100 it costs >81 quid  i can't see it costing anywhere near that to send via mail , I can send you a cheque or something for postage
  <jonathonf> oh i don't know, according to peter cannon's g+ it can cost Â£32 to post some stickers
  <zleap> hmm
  <zleap> well the cost includes postage for 100 cds
  <ali1234> gord: got a referal code you want me to use or anything?
  <gord> ali1234, nah
  <zleap> maybe I can stick all the ones I have here in an envelope,  (count em) then ask at the post office how much it may cost to send them
  <zleap> that would give me a rough idea
  <jonathonf> standard parcels, no tracking, 5kg, Â£13.61
  <jonathonf> http://www.royalmail.com/price-finder
  <jonathonf> 10kg is Â£17.53
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Parcelforce 48hr should be around Â£10 for UK mainland.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> With an account it is about Â£8 IIRC.
  <ali1234> any idea why openshot says libx264 is missing, when i have it?
  <ali1234> oh, nvm it tells you how to fix it
  <popey> heh
  <zleap> hi popey
  <jonathonf> holy moly: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/618486main_earth_full.jpg
  <zleap> wow
  <MooDoo> yeah it's the earth, big deal ;)
  <zleap> quite good detail
  <ali1234> http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BlueMarble/
  <ali1234> 500 metres/pixel
  <popey> tis a lovely pic
  <popey> shame it's USA âº
  <ali1234> http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BlueMarble/BlueMarble_monthlies.php
  <zleap> i am sure they have taken others
  <popey> wow, clicking that jpg, x just exploded
  <popey> had to login again
  <ali1234> the 8000x8000 one?
  <popey> yeah, dunno if that triggered it
  <popey> but it was just after
  <shauno> heh, bluemarble at 500m/px is telling me it has 31 minutes left on 1.3GB.  yeouch
  <ali1234> they have torrents
  <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/817811/
  <shauno> I think torrents would be slower on work's network.  they like to block anything they can spell
  <zleap> you can see outflow from the mississipi river i think,
  <shauno> the US looks pretty baren from space
  <zleap> yeah, it looks better at nigfht you can see where cities are
  <shauno> it was more the lack of green that gets me
  <popey> someone made a ruby script which grabs the daily satellite pic of the uk iirc
  <zleap> cool
  <AlanBell> oh heck
  <zleap> ok what makes ruby and ruby on rails different from say python or c
  <popey> different language
  <gord> would be nice to get some thing like that to make a daily desktop wallpaper
  <gord> that might be fun to code
  <popey> yeah, thats what it did
  <jonathonf> ruby is similar to python, they're both interpreted
  <zleap> yeah but wha would i use ruby for
  <jonathonf> c is a lower-level language
  <zleap> right
  <AlanBell> if you accidentally do something very silly with rm, in what order does it delete things?
  <zleap> not sure
  <ali1234> whatever order they are on disk
  <daubers> AlanBell: Normally the order of "ARGHH!!! OH MY GOD ARGHHHHHH!"
  <popey> inode order?
  <ali1234> yeah
  <zleap> so rm -r /  means that root goes first
  <popey> no
  <popey> you can't delete root
  <heeed> ubuntu in the news again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16731071
  <jonathonf> iirc ext doesn't delete the data, just unlinks the inode, so you should be able to recover it (somehow)
  <AlanBell> I caught it fairly quick, just don't know what it did
  <shauno> I think it uses the same order you'll see with ls -U
  <zleap> AlanBell, if I pay postage are you happy to send the cd's please ?
  <AlanBell> zleap: sure
  <popey> http://extundelete.sourceforge.net/
  <zleap> I will try and figure out how much it costs to send 20 - 25 cd's i have that many  older ones here
  <shauno> I'm assuming he's a good geek and has backups, just isn't sure what he's retreiving from them ;)
  <zleap> AlanBell, thanks
   * popey hugs his backups
  <zleap> Ok will ask at post office sometime over the next few days
  <ali1234> so does this HUD thing have a way to list all possible commands?
  <zleap> its nice in that article that xerox parc have been given proper credit for the development of the GUI many people believe it was MS or Apple I think
  <gord> ali1234, nope
  <ali1234> also how does it work with programs like blender?
  <gord> it doesn't
  <ali1234> well that's a bit rubbish then
  <gord> well it uses appmenu, so anything that doesn't support appmenu, hud can't do
  <ali1234> so basically it doesn't work with anything that isn't gtk or qt and doesn't work with anything xhosted?
  <zleap> so that sounds like a good reason for people to build in that support and hopefully they will do so
  <gord> i actually want to spend some time adding appmenu support to blender :) can see it being very useful there
  <ali1234> not really
  <ali1234> you hardly ever use the menus in blender
  <ali1234> it is designed to be used with 1 hand on keyboard and one hand on mouse at all times
  <ali1234> that's why all keyboard shortcuts are like "a" and not "ctrl-shift-a"
  <AlanBell> would the hud help with blender if it did work then?
  <ali1234> no, because it requires you to take your hand off the mouse
  <gord> it would help me in blender
  <ali1234> it would just slow down an experienced blender user
  <ali1234> well, unless they learn to type really fast with their left hand
  <gord> experienced users will always use the key combos
  <gord> for anything
  <ali1234> even beginners use the shortcuts in blender because there's no alternative
  <gord> i use the menus
  <ali1234> :/
  <gord> because i don't know all the key combinations
  <gord> nor do i use it enough to learn them
  <ali1234> that must be sloooooooow
  <ali1234> you must know a b g
  <gord> i know a few
  <ali1234> x y z
  <gord> i know the common things, its the uncommon ones i don't
  <ali1234> and the numpad
  <gord> which is what hud would be good for
  <oimon> HUD and ubuntu tv both seem to have had a warm reception (few noisy naysayers)..
  <ali1234> that's because all the naysayers already left
  <oimon> even on g+ etc. even naysayers have to put their hands up and say, well at least it's an interesting concept
  <daubers> \o/
  <ali1234> personally i think it's awful
  <oimon> "few" naysayers
  <ali1234> but presumably it will be as easy to kill as global menus
  <AlanBell> yeah, don't tap alt
  <ali1234> unlike the window management, which is kind of fundamental
  <gord> you think everything is awful though ali1234 ;)
  <oimon> buttons on the left still don't work for me
  <ali1234> yeah
  <AlanBell> I am happy with menus going back into windows, global menu doesn't work for me
  <ali1234> global menu is going?
  <AlanBell> gord: did you see the bug suggestion about putting the HUD on the application
   * oimon wonders if popey got his lenovo in the end
  <popey> when i installed hud, i realised how little I ever use menus
  <gord> AlanBell, i did
  <popey> nope oimon
  <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, it will be optional
  <ali1234> about time :)
  <oimon> thinkpad on the ISS is a great PR :)
  <popey> sabdfl took a thinkpad to ISS
  <AlanBell> gord: that would really make sense for me, if the hud was window attached, top left of my left monitor is quite a long way from where I do most work really
  <popey> sadly running windows
  <ali1234> does anyone else get anoyed when you try to click "back" in firefox or something, and the launcher slides out and covers it, and you accidentally click on something else?
  <popey> nope
  <AlanBell> popey: and he did some blender renders on it
  <popey> because I have the launcher always out
  <gord> AlanBell, might change it so its per monitor. but not per app anytime soon
  <oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/4dajA311koyxyyYWuqMWEd breakfast anyone?
  <ali1234> awsome
  <ali1234> where is that?
  <oimon> his is a genuine breakfast from a cafe in Great Yarmouth that my mate told me about. Its called the "Kids breakfast" because it weighs the same as a small child @ 10 pounds!! It costs 15 quid and If you eat it within 60 minutes you get it for free.....noone has ever finished
  <ahayzen> oimon: Now thats what i call breakfast :)
  <jonathonf> tsk... that's so unhealthy. non-diet coke.
  <ali1234> i could eat that. not in 60 minutes though
  <ali1234> the bread is the killer
  <popey> I'd struggle with the toast
  <oimon> i'd need real life gaviscon men and a gaviscon hose pipe
  <popey> jeez, its toast, fried and raw bread!
  <AlanBell> that looks fabulous
  <oimon> apparently the cafe is called jesters
  <jpds> jonathonf: And diet coke is healthy?
  <oimon> what are the black things
  <ali1234> black pudding
  <jonathonf> well... no... but i couldn't come up with a better "joke" :(
  <zleap> that looks awsome
  <zleap> and yummy
  <zleap> mind you,  it would be good with a few friends to share
  <oimon> i coudn't eat anything that's touched a baked bean
  <oimon> one of my little "things"
  <popey> hahaha
   * popey rubs baked beans all over the channel
  <zleap> oimon, same here
  <zleap> i like tinned spaghetti though
  * AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | baked beans ftw \o/
  <popey> i never used to eat baked beans then when i was 17 I went to a friends house and his mum made baked bean toasties
  <oimon> if i find a baked bean in the kitchen sink, it's game over
  <popey> i ate one and discovered they were lovely
  <oimon> my 2yr old son eats curried baked beans, at least they smell ok
  <oimon> i can eat alphabetti spaghetti,
  <TheOpenSourcerer> That's a bit light on bacon if you ask me.
  <shauno> I can't imagine what game ends with beans in the sink
  <zleap> yeah or spaghetti rings
  <oimon> shauno, the washing up game
  <oimon> i always lose
  <daubers> curried bakes beans are _awesome_
  <directhex> competitive eating protip: soak your bread
  <directhex> dip it in any liquid you have
  <shauno> oimon: get a dishwasher.  they're like robots, without the revolts
  <directhex> shauno, your dishwasher hasn't revolted yet?
  <oimon> i have one, but still pots, pans and baby stuff need sink attention
  <zleap> its odd that both come in tomato sauce, so it must be the taste of the beans in the sauce,
  <oimon> the texture of a bean is the worst thing ever
  <popey> you are odd
  <oimon> only by society's majority verdict
  <oimon> my least favourite liquid drink in the world is tea
  <shauno> directhex: revolting, but not revolted
  <popey> my daughter loved the cauliflower pizza I made yesterday
  <oimon> i want bacon and sossy sandwich now
  <zleap> i don't like tea either
  <daubers> oimon: Are you really a closet american?
  <zleap> hey me and oimon seem to have quite a bit in common
  * popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Tea & baked beans ftw \o/ |
  <directhex> zleap, poor you :(
  <zleap> lol
  <zleap> well i we all have one thing in common - ubuntu
  <shauno> feeling I should keep quiet on that one
  <zleap> well Linux then
  <popey> gord: comment on the youtube video about hud...
  <popey> "What aboutï»¿ dyslexic people?"
  <ali1234> why does openshot only export 9 seconds of video from a 10 second project?
  <gord> popey, supports them better than most search algorithms
  <zleap> time paradox
  <shauno> taxes
  <zleap> it seems the school version of the raspberry pi will have a case, hopefully a trans parent one, so people can see in side,
  <zleap> i would probably need one of those simply to demo it in the after school club
  <shauno> I'm astounded how much the innocent inclusion of a space in trans parent completely changed my mental picture
  <zleap> sorry
  <zleap> i see your point
  <zleap> transparent
  <zleap> hmm my shelf currently has a row of books, 1x latex book, 1x playwork book, 1x first aid manual, 1x html book, 1x football (nfl) for dummies book and a dummies book on autism
  <zleap> a real mix there eh
  <shauno> oh I wasn't trying to be picky about it.  just never saw that word in that light before :)
  <zleap> shauno, no problem,   until you pointed it out i hadn't noticed how the meaning was changed
  <shauno> how quickly my head went from rasberry pi, to tim curry
  <popey> http://www.jestersdiner.com/gallery
  <zleap> nice
  <zleap> is that were you get that huge breakfast from
  <andylockran> Howdy all
  <Linuxsapien> meh
  <Linuxsapien>  no one listens in here now :(
  <andylockran> Is it best to store files in MySQL, or references to files and store them in a web-accessible dir?
  <ujjain> The discussions were all but done. - Discussions were close to Â´doneÂ´ or not at all close?
  <ujjain> sorry about the English question :P It Å a hard language.
  <ali1234> andylockran: depends on the file size
  <ali1234> ujjain: close to done
  <ujjain> You should not save files in MySQL.
  <ali1234> i disagree
  <ujjain> Â¨I am all but happy about thisÂ¨  = unhappy. It seems, hmm.
  <ali1234> nobody would ever say that
  <directhex> BLOB is the devil. don't store files in mysql
  <ujjain> I have a very big image gallery, I have the meta database in database.
  <ujjain> and the files hosted on the server.
  <ujjain> Yes, directhex++.
  <ujjain> especially if you have 5000 visitors daily, itÂ´s painful.
  <ujjain> to get every 1mb file from the MySQL, data integrity scary, meta data in SQL, + files on server, was an obvious best choice for me.
  <ujjain> Â¨I am all but happy about thisÂ¨ < does this make sense. does it mean you are unhappy?
  <DJones> Probably black pudding or burnt mushrooms
  <DJones> Ugh
  <ali1234> ujjain: it doesn't make sense
  <ali1234> nobody would say that
  <shauno> I can see the logic, but you'd never hear it used
  <ujjain> ali1234: I see, it sounds very natural to me, but the exact same construction makes the exact opposite here.
  <ujjain> I am all but happy would be a way of saying Â¨I am totally unhappy about thisÂ¨.
  <ujjain> Â¨The talks are all but constructiveÂ¨ would be a good way to say  the talks are in/un/constructive (inconstructive)
  <shauno> for an odd definition of 'good'.  if you're at all unsure about how the other party will understand the phrase, it's better to be unambiguous
  <ujjain> Â¨the talks are all but constructiveÂ¨ < does this make any sense?
  <andylockran> ali1234: yeah, I should probably just store directory paths
  <AlanBell> it is a colloquialism, not many people in not many parts of the country would say that ujjain
  <AlanBell> in fact all but a few would say it ;)
  <ali1234> ujjain: no, you can only use that idiom in relation to completeness of a task
  <ujjain> AlanBell: ah ok :) IÂ´ll interpret Â´all butÂ´, as close... but not totally.
  <ujjain> ali1234: thanks a lot! :)
  <ali1234> argh openshot is so buggy
  <ali1234> every time i try a new program i find several bugs. does anyone else actually use this stuff?
  <shauno> no.  they just write tutorials on how easy it is to install ubuntu, and then go back to using their macs for useful work
  <shauno> (really should have added a smiley to that one)
  <shauno> just always found it odd that instalation tutorials have always vastly outnumbered any other task-based tutorial.  "what's next" is severly under-represented
  <ali1234> true dat
  <ali1234> if installing is so easy, why are you telling us how to do it for the 10 millionth time?
  <ali1234> bug 922196, bug 922203, bug 922207
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 922196 in openshot (Ubuntu) "openshot cuts off the last second of video when exporting to bluray" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922196
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 922203 in openshot (Ubuntu) "down dissolves revert to up dissolves when moved on the timeline" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922203
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 922207 in openshot (Ubuntu) ""replace clip" does not work if the new clip has the same filename but is in a different directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922207
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: did we settle on the cask for next thursday ?
  <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: sound good to you? ^
  <AlanBell> it is in pimlico
  <AlanBell> not quite sure why we are going to pimlico for expensive beer, but I am fine with the cask
  <brobostigon> afternononings eevryone.
  <czajkowski> AlanBell: we can book a table and thursday being busy plus nice beer :)
  <AlanBell> and I suppose if popey is coming from the tower of power it is convenient for that
  <czajkowski> and ade
  <czajkowski> but not from the tower
  <popey> to the tower!
  <Azelphur> jacobw popey AlanBell dunno if you saw me saying at like 3am last night, added a bunch of stuff including XMPP support, https://github.com/Azelphur/TwistedCat :D
  <Azelphur> netcat to your android phone \o/
  <popey> heh
  <awilkins> #svn
   * czajkowski imagines ade walking from the tower covered in flames from passing through the door 
  <AlanBell> ade has bounced on my trampoline I think
  <popey> he has
  <AlanBell> um, that isn't a very strange euphamism
  <czajkowski> ROFLOL
   * AlanBell grumbles at hud
  <gord> from reddit.com/r/flossworldproblems "Canonical prototyping a search bar got more press than FreeBSD 9 (freebsd.org)" Â¬_Â¬
  <AlanBell> it broke my global menu, but if hud searched properly I wouldn't need the global menu because I would be using the hud
  <gord> made me giggle
  <AlanBell> bug 921068 needs fixing, then I don't need menus any more
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921068 in Application Menu Indicator "HUD search results for full words are not matching correctly" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921068
  <gordonjcp> heh
  <gordonjcp> I couldn't get any sense out of HUD at all
  <gordonjcp> start to type in "File", get to "Fil" and it would be showing "View->Filters"
  <gordonjcp> okay, maybe it wants "open" then "o-p-e" "View->Highlighting Mode->OpenCL"
  <popey> gordonjcp: why would you want 'file' ?
  <gordonjcp> popey: to, uh, open a file
  <popey> right
  <popey> but the menu option to open a file is 'open' as you then tried
  <gordonjcp> popey: I certainly didn't want View->Filters and don't remember gedit even having that as an option
  <zleap> yeah i want to be able to seachj for files but then know which folder it is in,  so perhaps a feature you get with firefox downloads open containing folder would be good
  <gordonjcp> popey: right, which matched "OpenCL"
  <popey> which is duff
  <popey> ope finds open for me
  <dogmatic69> is there a way I can make /dev/ttyS0 point to /dev/ttyUSB0
  <popey> (in gedit)
  <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ln -s ?
  <zleap> popey, would a symlink do that (asking about dogmatic69s question)
  <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: ttyS0 exists, can I just delete it?
  <zleap> ok to answer that question - yes :)
  <popey> gord: is there a bug already filed that menus disappear?
  <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: yes, or move it aside
  <gordonjcp> popey: I couldn't really spend a lot of time on it, the graphics corruption was too bad
  <popey> ahhh
  <popey> bummer
  <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: won't stick beyond reboot anyway
  <gordonjcp> popey: 12.04 just isn't happy on my machine
  <zleap> MartijnVdS, what would happen if you put it in the bash-rc fle
  <zleap> file
  <dogmatic69> cool, thanks
  <MartijnVdS> zleap: don't put device stuff in a bashrc
  <zleap> ok
  <zleap> just asking
  <MartijnVdS> Best way to make it stick would be using udev rules
  <MartijnVdS> But it's usually a better option to "educate" the program that's trying to use the wrong device
   * AlanBell sees an update for the hud :)
   * brobostigon puts a berrel of hooky on the community table for eeveyone to heko themselves to, he is feeling generous.
  <brobostigon> help*
  <AlanBell> aaah the hud mixes up stuff from the indicators with stuff from the app you are in because it is all one menu
  <popey> yeah, so you can press alt then type shutdown I guess
  <AlanBell> yeah, I couldn't work out why it was always showing me thunderbirds new message in random apps like gedit
  <AlanBell> but it is because it is showing options from the messages indicator
  <AlanBell> I think the searching is better now, but it is still better at fuzzy matching than exact matching
  <bigcalm> I have returned!
  <bigcalm> Don't all get up at once
  <ali1234> who is this lord richard allan guy?
  <ali1234> facebook can't possibly realise that a large proportion of their "users" are in fact bots accounts created specifically to carry out malicious acts
  <ali1234> so is he lying to a judge or what?
  <jacobw> zzz
  <jacobw> nested tmux sessions are annoying
  <popey> ali1234: no idea what you're on about âº
  <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16742870
  <ali1234> yeah, that
  <AlanBell> I was just reading it
  <AlanBell> in an "oh, so *thats* what ali1234 was on about" kind of way
  <ali1234> i've heard that facebook bot owners typically have thousands of bot accounts
  <ali1234> it only takes a photo of a sexy girl and you can get 300 friends easily
  <ali1234> so much for neighbourhood watch
  <bigcalm> Time for a Facebook cull! Wonder if I'll cull myself this time
  <smittix> Evening all
  <jacobw> evening smittix
  <smittix> Website woes tonight. Thought I'd give myself a break
  <jacobw> what's up?
  <smittix> Just setup my VPS to serve a wordpress site and im getting Server Error 500's
  <smittix> Im sure there is a PHP module I have missed. I can remember having this problem a while back.
  <smittix> But can't for the life of me remember the name of the package I installed to get it working.
  <Azelphur> smittix: have you checked /var/log/apache2/error.log assuming your using apache2
  <smittix> Azelphur: Yeah, Nothing there that stands out.
  <Azelphur> :(
  <smittix> Yeah nothing to go from at all really
  <smittix> ahhh. Light bulb moment.
  <smittix> brb
  <smittix> Nope that was not it.
  <jacobw> are you installing from packages?
  <TK5791> Hello
  <TK5791> Am I in the right channel to get some help with Ubuntu?
  <Azelphur> !ask | TK5791
  <lubotu3> TK5791: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
  <Azelphur> :)
  <TK5791> how do I mount a network drive in Ubuntu?
  <Azelphur> what type of network drive?
  <TK5791> Seagate NAS
  <TK5791> Go Flex to be procise
  <Azelphur> hmm, not sure what protocol they talk
  <bigcalm> When in doubt, try smb/cifs
  <TK5791> my dictionary doesn't work in LibreOffice, anyone know how to fix?
  <TK5791> anyone home/
  <TK5791> there are 133 users on this channel and no one is saying anything?
  <TK5791> what gives???
  <AlanBell> we are all asleep
  <TK5791> sounds like your all dead more like
  <AlanBell> generally if people don't know the answer they don't say anything, plus loads of people are connected 24/7 but not at their computers
  <AlanBell> undead
  <AlanBell> what dictionary?
  <TK5791> UK English
  <TK5791> in Libra it simply doesn't appear
  <AlanBell> hmm, works for me
  <AlanBell> are you on oneiric (11.10)
  <TK5791> when I attempt to spell check it just tell me that everything is ok and then quits
  <TK5791> however I know that some of the words are wrong.
  <AlanBell> no wavey red underlines on words?
  <TK5791> nope
  <ahayzen> in the status bar at the bottom does it have 'English (UK)' ?
  <TK5791> yes
  <TK5791> however when I attempt to specify UK English as the main dictionary nothing happens
  <TK5791> very frustrating
  <TK5791> in fact Ubuntu is very frustrating period
  <TK5791> strike that last remark
  <TK5791> linux is very frustrating
  <zleap> why
  <ahayzen> Is autospell check enabled?
  <TK5791> yes
  <TK5791> tools - language - for all text - English (UK) (I'm unable to put a tick against this)
  <ahayzen> i can't either but my spell check is working
  <TK5791> well then you are either lucky or I am just dam unlucky
  <ahayzen> so if you go Tools => Options => language settings => writing aids ... are all the 'User defined dictionaries' ticked?
  <smittix> Azelphur: sorted it
  <Azelphur> smittix: :D
  <smittix> I was right with the "lightbulb moment"
  <smittix> I just didnt restart apache heh
  <TK5791> yep
  <smittix> I hadn't installed php5-gd
  <TK5791> can anyone suggest an open source alternative to Libra?
  <TK5791> Libre
  <bigcalm> Abiword
  <TK5791> <bigcalm> thank you I'll give it a try
  <ahayzen> bigcalm: I like abiword :)
  <zleap> libreoffice is open source or do you want a simpler program ?
  <TK5791> no no no.... I want  a program that works
  <TK5791> libreoffice dictionary isn't working.... and no one seems to know how to fix it
  <TK5791> this all = frustration
  <ahayzen> TK5791: You could try the specific libreoffice channel (#libreoffice), as most of us here aren't libreoffice experts
  <AlanBell> and normally it just works
  <popey> TK5791: within libreoffice writer, if you go to tols -> spelling and grammar, what do you see in the top part of that window?
  <AlanBell> so you installed 11.10 from scratch right?
  <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/lo.png
  <popey> should look like that
  <TK5791> it should look like this but all I get  is an empty box next to Text Language
  <TK5791> clearly the software hasn't engaged the dictionary
  <popey> ahh, thats good!
  <TK5791> assigned the dic is probably a better way of putting it
  <popey> the box which on my picture has English in, is that empty and if you click it there's no options there?
  <TK5791> correct
  <popey> ok
  <popey> so the dictionary isnt installed by the look of it
  <AlanBell> oh, it uses the system dictionaries
  <TK5791> really
  <TK5791> doesn't it come pre installed?
  <popey> it does, yes
  <popey> something has gone awry
  <TK5791> that figures
  <AlanBell> yes it does, but it isn't a libreoffice dictionary, it is across the whole shebang
  <popey> there's a single one line command I could give you which could just fix it
  <popey> if you are okay opening up a terminal?
  <TK5791> terminal right?
  <popey> yeah, if you can get to a terminal and issue this command it should install any missing stuff
  <TK5791> ok I'm ready
  <TK5791> do I need to quit the application 1st?
  <popey> now, there's one check before we do it, are you using Ubuntu or Kubuntu or some other derivative like Mint?
  <popey> yes
  <TK5791> ubuntu
  <popey> ok
  <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
  <popey> that is the command
  <popey> the caret on the end is important
  <popey> it will ask for your password
  <popey> then it _should_ install extra missing stuff
  <TK5791> ok
  <TK5791> its completed install I'll give it a bash
  <popey> did it download and install stuff?
  <popey> maybe stuff with dictionary type names?
  <TK5791> it installed something.... do I need to do something in the software to assign the dictionary?
  <popey> shouldn't have to
  <popey> it should figure it out
  <popey> if not, then something else may be amiss
  <TK5791> ok... then nothing has changed
  <popey> hmm
  <popey> ok, in libreoffice go to Tools -> Options
  <TK5791> ok
  <popey> Then on the left under 'Language Settings' there is 'Writing aids'
  <TK5791> yep
  <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/lo.png
  <popey> thats what mine looks like
  <TK5791> i appear to be missing GB English
  <popey> ahh, thats progress
  <popey> no idea how you add that
  <popey> congratulations! you have successfully reached the limits of my libreoffice knowledge!
  <popey> You win a prize âº
  <TK5791> ok
  <TK5791> thanks anyway
  <popey> I don't know if AlanBell knows more âº
  <AlanBell> ok, lets see
  <AlanBell> ok TK5791 can you go to the system settings program and find the language support option in there
  <AlanBell> so in the dash search for system settings, or it might be on the launcher bar
  <smittix> TK5791: What version of Ubuntu?
  <TK5791> found it Alan
  <TK5791> its updating the language.. something was missing apparently
  <AlanBell> oooh
  <popey> yay
  <AlanBell> in that list it should start with English (United Kingdom) followed by English
  <TK5791> aye ;)
  <AlanBell> then some other colonies of the old British Empire
  <TK5791> fixed
  <AlanBell> yay
  <TK5791> its working now
  <TK5791> blimey that was a slog
  <TK5791> thank you thank you thank you thank you
  <smittix> another happy customer.
  <TK5791> now if I could only figure out how to mount a network drive
  <popey> a windows one?
  <bigcalm> Whenever I move my mouse to the bottom of this monitor, I keep expecting it to then appear on my Xoom tablet. Too many screens on this desk -
  <TK5791> no I linux one... Go Flex Seagate to be more precise
  <AlanBell> TK5791: in the nautilus file manager go to file-connect to server, in the type dropdown select the type of share (windows, ssh, etc) and put in the address to connect to
  <dutchie> hmmm
  <dutchie> cron is doing something strange
  <smittix> bigcalm: HEH
  <bigcalm> The device may show up on your 'Network' places
  <dutchie> well, not doing anything at all
  <TK5791> sorry don't know where Nautilus is
  <bigcalm> dutchie: what should it be doing?
  <bigcalm> 'something'
  <dutchie> it's supposed to be running a desktop background rotation script and a script wrapper round get_iplayer
  <dutchie> but it isn't
  <AlanBell> TK5791: nautilus is the name of the file manager, like finder or windows explorer
  <dutchie> I added a "* * * * * echo hi > /home/josh/cronstamp" and that ran
  <TK5791> I've found connect to server
  <dutchie> so i am assuming there is something wrong with the lines invoking the scripts
  <TK5791> it seems to be what you're referring to
  <AlanBell> great
  <TK5791> does afp mean anything
  <TK5791> I can see the drive, but can it mounted like a folder in win?
  <bigcalm> AFP is a news site
  <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Filing_Protocol
  <TK5791> AFP Volume
  <bigcalm> Oh
  <AlanBell> dunno if it supports that, most NAS devices present stuff as windows shares as well as other protocols
  <dutchie> ok, changing from "/path/to/script" to "/bin/bash /path/to/script" didn't make a difference
  <bigcalm> dutchie: if you're calling a .sh, try "/bin/sh /home/josh/myfunkyscript.sh"
  <dutchie> heh
   * bigcalm shrugs :S
  <TK5791> I own a mac but I can assure you the drive wasn't set up on the mac but rather on Win vista
  <AlanBell> bug 846473
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 846473 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Browse networks shows afp mounts but can't mount them" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/846473
  <AlanBell> apparently the fix is that it can mount them now
  <AlanBell> I suspect the NAS box can serve up the same stuff as a windows share, AFP thing webdav etc. etc. The one that is advertised best is the AFP share, but it might not be the best one to connect to
  <TK5791> ok
  <TK5791> thank you again Alan... you've been a trem help
  <smittix> laptopamabob
  <dutchie> i made an askubuntu thing, http://askubuntu.com/questions/98855/cron-jobs-not-running
  <smittix> Can anyone access nixaddict.com ?
  <bigcalm> Oops, nothing here :(
  <smittix> that's ok. I can't get anything. Must be DNS
  <smittix> No post's I have only just brought it up.
  <bigcalm> I see
  <bigcalm> Yes, the site works for me
  <smittix> ta :)
  <HazRPG> \o greets from Egypt!
  <AlanBell> o/ HazRPG
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-27
  <Azelphur> Is there something I can use to log all the packets to and from a specific address?
  <AlanBell> wireshark
  <AlanBell> though that is more for investigating stuff real time than a long term logging thing
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: hows it going dude?
  <AlanBell> not so bad HazRPG
  <AlanBell> how is egypt?
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: good good
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah egypt isn't too bad really, slowly getting settled in (along with catching up on local family drama that they apparently didn't want to tell me about in the past because they didn't want me to worry too much)
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: amazing how much stuff happens when your not around 24/7
  <HazRPG> weekends being friday/saturday just seems awkward btw
  <HazRPG> i was use to thurs/fri in saudi, and obv sat/sun UK... but fri/sat just seems random
  <popey> AlanBell: looked at the source for myunity?
  <popey> Good old BASIC
  <HazRPG> hurray for BASIC \o/
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Plasma and KDE Applications 4.8 on Kubuntu - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4529
  <directhex> BASIC?
  <directhex> oh, gambas
  <directhex> for people who pine after VB6 ._.
  <ubuntubhoy> I was thinking more CB86 myself
  <directhex> QBASIC was the best BASIC
  <ubuntubhoy> that was the free QuickBasic ?
  <ubuntubhoy> or have I got it the wrong way round
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <AlanBell> popey: heh, no, I didn't realise it was BASIC
  <AlanBell> I did look at the source for compizconfig-settings-manager and I have patched it to remove the slider bars
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <danfish> greetings
  <smittix> Morning all
  <czajkowski> how are we all this fine friday morning
  <MooDoo> morning morning, i'm fine czajkowski thanks, hows the back?
  <czajkowski> good thanks
  <smittix> Not too bad, at least it's friday!
  <MooDoo> ace
  <czajkowski> was a little bit sore last nigth after physio
  <MooDoo> yay
  <MooDoo> that was to smittix not you czajkowski lol
  <smittix> heh
  <czajkowski> ;)
  <MooDoo> just changed all my dns over to opendns, so noticed and improvement.
  <smittix> So there is an improvement MooDoo ?
  <MooDoo> yes sorry, typo
  <smittix> Cool
  <mrevell> Hello Ubuntuns
  <MartijnVdS> mrevell: Ubuntians?
  <MartijnVdS> Ubuntistas?
  <mrevell> Ubunteros :)
  <diplo> Morning all
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
  <Laney> howdy ho
   * popey slaps mrevell 
   * mrevell thanks popey
  <popey> bug 272826
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 272826 in Ubuntu Website ""Ubuntero" inappropriate for female contributors" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272826
  <popey> not that I'm a female contributor
  <popey> well, not on weekdays anyway
  <MartijnVdS> blame jono for that name, I think? :)
  <mrevell> popey, My heart has sunk a little at being reminded of that bug.
  <popey> heh
  <mrevell> MartijnVdS, Jeff Waugh I think.
  <MartijnVdS> mrevell: That long ago already? Time flied :)
  <MartijnVdS> flies *
  <mrevell> Sho does
  <popey> we're gonna hit a million bugs soon
  <MartijnVdS> ONE MILLION BUGS *pinky at corner of mouth*
  <bigcalm> Waugh, huh, what is he good for?
  <Myrtti> PINK mentio... oh
  <bigcalm> Heh, awwww
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I triggered a highlight? :)
  <Myrtti> MARMITE DAMNIT
  <Myrtti> yes. yes you did.
  <popey> \o/
  <oimon> i'm watching loads of bugs that should have been closed or obsoleted. is there a policy on closing stuff that realtes to unsupported releases?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning Ubuntlings
  <TheOpenSourcerer> !!! IT'S FRIDAY !!!
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, ubot knows nothing about IT'S FRIDAY
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: time to teach it.
  <smittix> hmm bbpress doesnt seem to like permalinks
  <oimon> does xchat-gnome do native ubuntu notifications if someone mentions your name?
  <MartijnVdS> oimon: let's try :)
  <oimon> hmm
  <oimon> tryagain please?
  <MartijnVdS> oimon: let's try again!
  <oimon> meh. how lame
  <bigcalm> oimon: xchat does, don't know about the -gnome wrapper
  <oimon> orly, how weird
  <bigcalm> I don't actually know why there is a -gnome
  <oimon> allegedly a nicer ui
   * oimon goes to check xchat plain
  <oimon> hmm. xchat plain seems better :P
  <bigcalm> oimon: but what of the highlighting thingy?
  <bigcalm> oimon: is there OSD notification joy?
  <Myrtti> lol
  <Myrtti> Finnish news are laughing at Daily Mail
  <Myrtti> "Winter's coming with a vengeance... Siberian storm to bring -5C temperatures to Britain and the big freeze could last a month"
  <Myrtti> Siberian storm :-DDDDD
  <MartijnVdS> woo -5
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: You're from Finland. Isn't -5Â°C a warm breeze over there? ;)
  <Myrtti> yes :-D
  <bigcalm> Myrtti: you know DM is not to be paid attention to?
  <oimon> bigcalm: i missed that due to no OSD :(
  <Daviey> I seem to be listening to beach boys, and loving it.
  <Myrtti> bigcalm: I know, but one of our main tv channels doesn't
  <Myrtti> http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/ulkomaat.shtml/2012/01/1484628/kylmaa-on-kuin-siperiassa-tama-on-brittien-kasitys-asiasta
  <bigcalm> I don't think Spotify liked being hybernated :S
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
  <MartijnVdS> g'morning brobostigon
  <brobostigon> morninf bigcalm and MartijnVdS
  <oimon> does anyone use Document templates? right click on desktop and look at the create documnet menu option
  <oimon> i've never even noticed it before.
  <popey> i have noticed it, and never used it
  <sagaci> oimon: or lack of templates, you mean
  <oimon> bug 372132
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 372132 in nautilus (Ubuntu) ""Create Document" Templates difficult to use" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372132
  <bigcalm> I don't think I even used that feature on ms windows
  <oimon> it would be useful if it allowed openoffice and other new documents, or new tomboy note
  <oimon> but rather pointless without clear guidance on adding templates, or without default ones
  <sagaci> yep, I don't understand why they keep it empty, with only Empty Document available
  <oimon> the weird thing about the rationale behind keeping it empty, should mean that it is hidden until you add templates, since it is useless otherwise
  <andylockran> Morning Campers
  <brobostigon> morning andylockran
  <AlanBell> oimon: wow, that is a really cool feature I never knew existed
  <oimon> AlanBell: yeah, and i've used ubuntu since 2004
  <smittix> I use the Templates dir quite alot. Right click and create an invoice is pretty handy.
  <MartijnVdS> smittix: but it's poorly documented (to say the least)
  <shauno> that's been in nautilus for as long as I can remember.  and always felt broken, since $XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR defaults to $HOME (or $HOME/Templates in ubuntu).  feels like something that belongs under /usr/share so packages can populate it
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: both really
  <shauno> well being able to add them per-user is A Neat Trick.  having 'new abiword document' there because you have abiword install just seems completely obvious
  <smittix> MartijnVdS: Yeah, I only found it through a some obscure google search.
  <shauno> relevant: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/17439/
  <oimon> wow, i'd forgotten all about that site
  <popey> you and everyone else
  <shauno> well, there's nothing there saying that it's left for archive purposes and all the cool kids have moved to stackexchange.  but good idea is still a good idea
  <gord> someone reminded me the other day that slashdot still existed, surprised me
  <bigcalm> Fnar fnar
  <MartijnVdS> gord: CmdrTaco no longer works there though
  <oimon> slashdot still ha interesting stories
  <MartijnVdS> I prefer Ars myself
  <MartijnVdS> ArsTechnica++
  <oimon> oeer missis
  <oimon> good recovery
  <shauno> I've never gotten around to removing slashdot from my feed reader, but they do tend to be a few days behind everyone else now
  <gord> i always found the slashdot story feed to just be inflammatory articles designed to agitate its reader base. its the daily mail of software news
  <oimon> it saves me reading everything about everything. if i've already seen the story then meh, but otherwise the articles are often interesting topics
  <oimon> but gord, you read reddit :P
  <gord> for the cat pictures!
  <gord> reddit.com/r/aww is where it is at
  <MartijnVdS> gord: /r/adviceanimals
  <oimon> just realised i'd left that picture of a massive breakfast open in image viewer...and it's friday...hungry now
  <oimon> face it guys, we're too old for reddit
  <oimon> it's for kids
  <MartijnVdS> oimon: Reddit is fun.
  <gord> am 25 years old, prime demographic
  <oimon> gord: ah you look older :P
  <MartijnVdS> oimon: I can let my trolling bits run wild there ;)
  <MartijnVdS> (no NOT on /r/gonewild)
  <MartijnVdS> (nsfw, obviously)
  <oimon> demographic of reddit seems to be kids to want to know how to do stuff to girls
  <MartijnVdS> oimon: that's /r/askreddit. Just point them at /r/seduction and THEN point SRS at them :)
  <MartijnVdS> Trolling at its finest
  <popey> i never visit reddit â¹
  <popey> unless someone links to something specific
  <MartijnVdS> popey: you shuold :)
  <shauno> I rarely leave reddit.  I have an exceptionally dull job.
  <gord> the key to reddit is to just find your niche, subscribe to the smaller subreddits that you find interesting and remove the bigger annoying ones full of morons
  <MartijnVdS> gord: and /r/random
  <gord> really wish the local co-op wasn't having a sale on christmas chocolates. i bought these cadbury heroes for dirt cheep on monday and have inhaled 2/3rds the box
  <popey> \o/ cleaner has left, i can emerge from my cave
  <MartijnVdS> To the pope-mobile!
  <brobostigon> lol
  <diplo> Cleaner?!?!? Don't you work from home now ?
  <gord> main reason i don't have a cleaner, the awkwardness
  <popey> diplo: yes, i work from home, I don't clean from home
  <gord> jerry seinfeld put it best. i'm sorry i'm such a slob.. i could of cleaned that up, i'm just lazy. i know. i'm so sorry
  <diplo> pfft :)
  <popey> wifey works full time too
  <smittix> Anyone any good with Wordpress?
  <popey> wassup?
  <smittix> Installed BBPress and it doesnt seem to like Permalinks.
  <popey> never used bbpress
  <smittix> ahh, actually let me see if mod_rewrite is actually on.
  <smittix> HAH, What a dumbass. I hadn't even enabled mod_rewrite,duh.
   * MartijnVdS points & laughs
  <MartijnVdS> ;)
  <smittix> :)
  <smittix> I was setting the VPS up all night. I was tired ;)
  <davmor2> morning all
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod prod prodity prod prod prod prodity prod prod prod prod proddity prod!
  <oimon> cleaners are great. wifey doesn't work and we can barely afford it, but she is looking after our sprog. the cleaner works like a maniac for 2hrs and the house is good again
  <oimon> for another week
  <bigcalm> davmor2: https://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/162645009705869312
  <MooDoo> hi davmor2
  <davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
  <davmor2> bigcalm: nice
  <bigcalm> davmor2: it was waiting for me when I got home, hanging from the letter box
  <bigcalm> So no worries
  <bigcalm> I'll probably bring it in 2 weeks. So very pleased with it
  <davmor2> bigcalm: looks good to be honest
  <bigcalm> davmor2: and it was a good job I bought the Xoom when I did. It's no longer for sale on the Carphone Warehouse site
  <bigcalm> Gosh darn you skype. You've become rather pants in the last 16 hours
  <Daviey> bigcalm: You use skype?
  <Daviey> I guess you use skype for verbal, and ICQ for text chat?  How are those flares doing? :)
  <bigcalm> Daviey: I use skype for business calls and some clients like to converse over it as well
  <davmor2> Daviey: It's a work thing for him bless
  <bigcalm> Daviey: flares have moth holes in them :(
  <davmor2> bigcalm: install skype on your xoom and try that instead :)
  <bigcalm> Heh, tempting
  <daubers> Morning
   * daubers attemptes to coat his throat in chocolatey goodness
  <bigcalm> If I get sick, I'll blame Alex and gord. But mostly Alex I think
  <gord> why me?!
  <gord> i'm a victim
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <bigcalm> Possibly infectious
  <gord> i'm going to bring smallpox next time out of spite
  <davmor2> bigcalm: just go on #wolveslug and blame moreati directly :D
  <bigcalm> Haha
  <bigcalm> Oh my goodness
  <bigcalm> I now have skype set up on the Xoom to take calls
  <bigcalm> And it works \o/
  <bigcalm> davmor2: ta for the suggestion
  <bigcalm> No idea if the video conferencing works though
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I'd go and get mine and tell you to call me but I can't be bothered :P
  <bigcalm> Hah
   * smittix can't stop listening to Massive Attack - Tear Drops
  <smittix> Damn you spotify.
  <MooDoo> lol
  <smittix> I always do it with songs I like though. I will wear them out and not like them a week later.
  <czajkowski> davmor2: good day to you
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
  <DJones> christel: Just came across a refence to this, thought you'd like it http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L_xtQKmEeWU/S-nmKg_pX5I/AAAAAAAABtI/mQD6D5IZNjw/s1600/DSCF0821.JPG
  <bigcalm> Gooooooooo
   * christel looksies
  <christel> OH MY GOD
  <davmor2> christel: but none for you :P
  <DJones> christel: Its supposed to be starting to appear in the shops
  <bigcalm> And nobody knows where it comes from
  <bigcalm> It just appears
  <DJones> I blame gremlins
  <davmor2> any a11y guys about?  if so how do you expand a collapsed tab?
   * davmor2 is spending a day in orca/keyboard land to see what you can and can't do in USC
  <czajkowski> whoo sheldon is behaving well. abotyer 117 updates to go
  <czajkowski> might get rid of the annoying crash when I boot up and do nothing but seemingy something is broken
  <AlanBell> o/ davmor2
  <AlanBell> collapsed tab??
  <davmor2> AlanBell: goto the installed tab in USC you see accessories etc normally you would click on the pissy little arrow to expand the tab
  <AlanBell> usc is a train wreak
  <davmor2> AlanBell: Yes I know I'm being selfish though in that if I can get the A11y working better for orca/and real people  it will help with test automation through things like ldtp
  <AlanBell> davmor2: enter or sometimes right
  <davmor2> AlanBell: tried both nothing
  <AlanBell> yeah, ldtp is great
  <AlanBell> usc is full of nonstandard non-gtk non-working widgets
  <AlanBell> that isn't a real treeview control
  <davmor2> AlanBell: it say it is
  <AlanBell> + and - on the numeric keypad
  <davmor2> AlanBell: that's the one thanks
  <AlanBell> that might end up putting you into orca flat review mode too
  <AlanBell> so even with a mouse I can't expand the categories by double clicking the names of them
  <davmor2> AlanBell: no that seemed to work, however notification, notifyosd is starting to get on my wick
  <AlanBell> what you want is my speech dispatcher plugin that gets orca to append text to /tmp/orca.out
  <AlanBell> then you can tail -f orca.out in a window so you can read what it says
  <davmor2> AlanBell: unfortunately it just crashed USC not so good :)
  <davmor2> AlanBell: No I have gwibber on the go so it keeps popping up notification notifyosd not very useful to be honest :(
  <davmor2> AlanBell: it's a real eye opener on how bad an experience you are likely to get to be honest :(
  <AlanBell> indeed, going eyes-free is an eye-opener
  <AlanBell> at the moment barely anything apart from ubiquity has had any attention to orca readability
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh wow, this Graphene stuff is so cool it's beginning to hurt: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/115909-graphene-the-perfect-water-filter
  <bigcalm> That is fantastic
  <bigcalm> Super-vodka!
  <MartijnVdS> \o/ super-vodka! :)
  <AlanBell> davmor2: every time a custom widget is used a kitten dies
  <davmor2> AlanBell: That has no effect on me, replace kitten with czajkowski and then I'd care who would I have to pick on then :D
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Funny, a friend is touring in SE Asia. She's just checked in to somewhere in Laos. I saw a "Get Directions" link on FB and thought it would be funny to see what it said... Bing Maps said - can't find a route. :-(
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Google, in about 2 secs gave me a 7500 driving direction map. :-)
  <MartijnVdS> aww :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> 7809miles - 7 days.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> No stops.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Through some very dodgy areas too.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> So I guess maybe Bing is right to not suggest a driving route.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Krygystan, Tajikistan, Afganistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Burma... Dodgy.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Or I go through Iran on the alternative route :-D
  <MartijnVdS> Wow.. Google knows enough roads to plan a road trip to Asia.
  <MartijnVdS> Modern tech++
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - two ways/
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: what if you 'avoid highways'
   * MartijnVdS is trying to find the longest possible route
  <MartijnVdS> from anywhere to anywhere
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - Try it yourself. Stick an interesting destination like somewhere in Cambodia...
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Longest route would probably be to Vladivostok or somewhere on the east coast of Russia. Or perhaps Alaska to Tierra del Feugo
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Cape Town to ÐÐ¾Ð»ÑÐ¼Ð°
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: 19 days :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
  <smittix> mmm Fried Chicken
  <kvarley> When I add a PPA and update my sources list it says not found. Why is this?
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe the PPA doesn't exist for your version of Ubuntu
  <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ah yeah, that's the case
  <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ty
  <iclebyte> has any one seen a scenario when building a software RAID1 array via the 10.04LTS installer in which when creating the first MD device the only partitions listed are sda1 and sda2 - no sda1 and sdb1?
   * mattt is waiting on lunch
   * iclebyte doesn't seem to get lunches these days
  <mattt> iclebyte: that's horrible ... lunch is essential
  <Supermanintights> hey guys, i'm setting up a linode, using ubuntu 11.10 - and i've logged into it via ssh.  it's telling me to do the following: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/818885/  what's the command to edit via console again, I'm not 100% sure
  <Supermanintights> thanks
  <gord> haaah. kinect advert, runs on ubuntu ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsu-6wfCH7M
  <mattt> Supermanintights: vi/nano
  <Supermanintights> thanks
  <bigcalm> davmor2: I can confirm that video calls do not work with skype on the Xoom
  <popey> thats rubbish
  <MartijnVdS> They don't?
  <bigcalm> Doesn't work for me
  <popey> works on the transformer
   * MartijnVdS uses GTalk anyway
  <bigcalm> Locks up the app which eventually has to be force closed
  <bigcalm> Voice calls work just fine
  <popey> oh, thats different
  <bigcalm> Installing skype told me that the device wasn't supported but might work anyway
  <bigcalm> So it does and it doesn't :)
  <bigcalm> Not that I need to use video calling for work though
  <popey> i left a transformer on, on my desk and suddenly skype call started, my brother was drunk video calling me
  <bigcalm> Haha
  <davmor2> popey: nice
  <bigcalm> I'm glad that I can sign into the same account on multiple devices
  <bigcalm> Skype IM on my workstation (which has a useable keyboard). Skype Audio on my Xoom (which doesn't).
  <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsu-6wfCH7M muhahahahah does this mean we can add this to bug1  1:47 in not the gnome menu :D
  <zleap> hi
  <Myrtti> tea â¥
  <AlanBell> well spotted davmor2
  <davmor2> AlanBell: not me someone else I just thought everyone else would like it :)
  <davmor2> AlanBell: Shockingly in USC it's not quite as bad as I thought,  it's mostly badly name/keyboard interactive buttons that seem to be the issue
  <davmor2> AlanBell: admittedly I am on page 3 of the bug report
  <AlanBell> there is a lot of unexpected navigation that doesn't work, like the thing on the left that you can't go up and down, you have to tab
  <AlanBell> and the toolbar fake notebook tabs with dropdown menus that are not menus
  <davmor2> AlanBell: already noted also it has no name so you don't know what you are tabbing up and down
  * popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | â Tea & baked beans ftw \o/ |
   * AlanBell expects a hot drink
  <popey> haha
  <AlanBell> soo predictable
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Warm whiskey?
  <popey> â
  <AlanBell> â
  <davmor2> haha
  <MartijnVdS> Too bad the Unicode6 emoticons don't play well with Irssi, or Screen
  <hamitron> so many special chars
  <hamitron> :/
  <MartijnVdS> ð£
  <MartijnVdS> it's screen
  <popey> we are a channel full of special characters
  <MartijnVdS> j.p.c
  <hamitron> that didn't work in YChat either
  <hamitron> popey, haha :D
  <davmor2> popey: and so says EPIC BRIAN :D
  <andylockran> popey: did you get paid much for that appearance?
  <popey> wut?
  <andylockran> EPIC BRIAN :p
  <popey> i have no idea what you're on about
  <andylockran> popey is sooo MoneySuperMarket.com
  <andylockran> you must have seen the advert?
  <davmor2> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/922657 that's as far as I could get tabbing in webkitaccessibilty core dumped USC :(
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 922657 in software-center (Ubuntu) "The Big A11y/orca/keyboard only list" [Undecided,New]
  <andylockran> am I imagining things?
  <davmor2> AlanBell: feel free to add any I missed :)
   * Pendulum subscribes to bug
  <AlanBell> awesome
  <Pendulum> davmor2: also thank you :)
  <davmor2> Pendulum: I did say I would stay on top of them, again purely selfish reasons it'll make automation easier :)
  <zleap> hmm,  listening to the moody blues, nights in white satin, the picture in vlc is starwars errant knight
  <davmor2> zleap: and what is wrong with that, he is a knight in white satin ;)
  <zleap> nothing it is supposded to display the album or single cover,  it does however come up with some really interesting pictures sometimes
  <zleap> AlanBell, can i message you please ?
  <AlanBell> zleap: sure, but I might go unresponsive, loads of screaming kids are about to arrive
  <zleap> ok
  <davmor2> unity spotify people do you use the spotify scope?
  <bigcalm> I want new spotify :(
  <gord> do you still have to pay for spotify to get the linux version?
  <bigcalm> Time to look at windows version in wine
  <bigcalm> No idea, but I pay
  <davmor2> gord: no idea I just saw the top ten lens link in omgubuntu and thought I'd have a look
  <Myrtti> I probably use it as much on my mobile, so I pay as well
  <popey> davmor2: i have used it
  <gord> everyone says spotify is a really great thing, but last time i used it it was horrible... should try it again i guess
  <bigcalm> Nope, windows version doesn't work in wine in 11.10 for me :(
  <gord> crazy people still on 11.10
  <bigcalm> :P
  <gord> (it prolly doesn't work on 12.04 either)
  <davmor2> gord: add me to the crazy list, I have all sorts :P
  <gord> i don't have a crazy list, i have a "sane" list. it consists of me and my cat.
  <bigcalm> Mow
  <diplo> 9.10/10.04 and 11.10 here :/
  <diplo> Scared breaking my revo putting 11.10 on it for xbmc :)
  <diplo> breaks on two of my other machines
  <davmor2> gord: ther eare one to many on that list.......the cat can stay
  <gord> i think one of my xbmc machines is on maverick. eh. no point in upgrading them
  <gord> i'll prolly upgrade them all to 12.04 once that is out and stay on there
  <davmor2> gord: for a couple of years or so right :)
   * hamitron is waiting till he does anything major
  <gord> davmor2, 5 is the aim ;)
  <gord> spotify seems to think every computer is a mac
  <davmor2> gord: Yeah but they'll be a newer lts out in 2 years :)
  <gord> right. but for an xbmc, what is there that i could want in a newer lts?
  <gord> wut. spotify is in qt. but uses the gtk file chooser?
  <davmor2> gord: shiny shiny
  <davmor2> gord: oh nice
  <gord> well spotify just crashes constantly and couldn't play half my mp3 files. nevermind then.
  <diplo> gord, you using eden ?
  <bigcalm> How might I use grep to find instances of <? not <?php ?
  <drhodesmumby> bigcalm: I'd first grep for the <? then pipe the results of that into a grep -v for the <?php
  <drhodesmumby> bigcalm: -v gives you results which don't contain the search string, so you'd be stripping out <?php from your original grep's results.
  <bigcalm> drhodesmumby: indeed, I use it to remove svn results. Ta for the mental prod :)
  <drhodesmumby> bigcalm: no problem. :-)
  <drhodesmumby> Hello everyone by the way.
  <dwatkins> beware of unescaped chevrons when grepping like that
  <dwatkins> I've wiped-out whole logfiles grepping for usernames in IRC logs.
  <bigcalm> My line did what I needed :)
  <bigcalm> grep -r "<?" ./ | grep -v svn | grep -v "Derivatives.ppx" | grep -v "<?php" | grep -v sql | less
  <dwatkins> Linux saves an otherwise disastrous day :D
  <bigcalm> Short tags are rife in this project and it's not working when short tags are disabled :)
  <drhodesmumby> There's probably a more elegant way to do it with a single grep, but quite frankly why dig when pipes and -v are so simple? :P
  <bigcalm> Indeed
  <andylockran> yeah, I dig pipes :D
  <bigcalm> Really what I need to look for are "<? " and "<?\n"
  <bigcalm> \n being a new line
  <drhodesmumby> bigcalm: doesn't grep recognise the newline character?
  <drhodesmumby> A quick google suggests $ at the end of the pattern is a newline.
  <christel> Nafallo: you around?
  <gordonjcp> y'know, in 11.10 the search-y thing in alt-f2 doesn't match full words either
  <gordonjcp> alt-f2, type "evinc" first suggestion is evince, type "evince" and the first suggestion is "evince-previewer"
  <bigcalm> Almost forgot to find and replace <?= with <?php echo
  <bigcalm> mgdm: ping
  <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: are you around? I need a chili expert
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Could be!
  <Pendulum> do you know of any sites that would be good for identifying chilis?
  <Pendulum> my mum has just brought home about 5 different types, but didn't keep track of what they were
  <Pendulum> so I am probably going to play "match the chili" this afternoon to try to sort it
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Take some decent pictures and let me have a look over the weekend. If you are RHS members they can identify any plant from you. Or ask on Twitter - There are quite a few chilli experts on there.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Being accurate on species can be hard because many varieties look the same.
  <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: I should probably mention that she's cooking them tonight
  <TheOpenSourcerer> What do you really want to know about them?
  <Pendulum> well, actually over the afternoon
  <Pendulum> I'd like to know what they are
  <Pendulum> that's really all I care about
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Pictures should be enough to give you a decent idea.
  <Pendulum> I should probably mention that some of them are dried
  <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: mostly we're a bit in shock as she went off to shop at 9AM and it took her 3 1/2 hours to come back and we think she bought out the store
  <Pendulum> and she doesn't even like chilis
  <awilkins> Have we had a row^W discussion about ACTA today?
  <ali1234> eve redesigned their menu... now it works exactly like unity
  <ali1234> i find this hilarious
  <ali1234> the only thing it doesn't have is a dash
  <ali1234> it has a classic style start menu instead
   * AlanBell facepalms at the myunity form
  <AlanBell> and gambas in general (though that might be unfair)
  <Azelphur> syslog = dmesg right?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no
  <Azelphur> how does one look at the syslog? :P
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: dmesg prints the contents kernel message buffer
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: klogd also reads that, and sends it to syslog
  <MartijnVdS> (it ends up in /var/log//kern.log)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Usually in files in /var/log :)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: check /etc/rsyslog.conf and /etc/rsyslog.d/* for details
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (or /etc/syslog.conf on older systems with syslogd instead of rsyslogd)
  <Azelphur> ah, /var/log/syslog
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes, depending on log level (severity) and source (facility)
  <mattt> evening all
  <MartijnVdS> hi mattttttt
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: how's things?  :)
  <MartijnVdS> OK :) Just ordered some Moo cards
  <MartijnVdS> moo++
  <zleap> what are moo cards
  <MartijnVdS> zleap: business cards (or half-height business cards) from moo.com
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: what's your business?
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: Not much really.. I just put some of my photos on the front, and my name + email on the back
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: I intend to give them out when making photos
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks
  <jacobw> evening
  <popey> AlanBell: haha, had a look at the source huh?
  <AlanBell> popey: yeah /o\
  <AlanBell> epic epic fail
  <popey> i know we can do better
  <zleap> ah
  <zleap> i get business cards from vistaprint
  <AlanBell> popey: yeah, I am sure it is possible
  <AlanBell> did you see all the hard coded do this if distribution is "Ubuntu 11.04" stuff
  <popey> yes
  <zleap> ohh stickers,  could make some custom ubuntu-uk stickers :)
  <AlanBell> and the super-wide single form with non-standard widgets to scroll bits of it into view, never mind the fact you can tab out of the visible area
  <MartijnVdS> zleap: easily.
  <popey> http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/27/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-3/
  <zleap> yeah
  <AlanBell> so yeah, myunity could be done better, yes.
  <MartijnVdS> zleap: My sister is a teacher, she has some ideas like "make a card game"
  <zleap> cool
  <mattt> MartijnVdS: you seem to go to a lot of music shows
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what is "gambas"?
  <MartijnVdS> mattt: Not as many as I used to
  <popey> !info gambas
  <lubotu3> Package gambas does not exist in oneiric
  <popey> bah
  <jacobw> VB
  <MartijnVdS> Is it Visual BASIC for Linux?
  <popey> !info gambas2
  <lubotu3> gambas2 (source: gambas2): Complete visual development environment for Gambas. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.22.0-1ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 3 kB, installed size 136 kB
  <popey> yes
  <zleap> 50 stickers/labels 	Â£15.99
  <zleap> could be good,  popey would we be able to use the ubuntu-uk logo for this legally ?
  <MartijnVdS> zleap: you can have every sticker/label be different if you want
  <popey> depends if you want to sell them or give them away
  <zleap> give them away
  <AlanBell> advocacy stuff is fine
  <zleap> or stick them on things
  <popey> yeah, no problem
  <zleap> cool
  <zleap> so logo + website would be a good idea, that it acts as advoacy for ubuntu
  <MartijnVdS> zleap: want my referral code? (gives me a small discount next time I order something :))
  <zleap> can do,  but not ordering just yet, but something to keep hold of for later
  <popey> make sure you use the official logo, not the old multi-colour one
  <MartijnVdS> the new purple one?
  <popey> http://design.ubuntu.com/ has the brand guidelines
  <AlanBell> or the LoCo logo
  <MartijnVdS> Or your hackergotchi ;)
  <popey> The giant floating head of Alan Bell
  <popey> I typo'd that as Alanb Ell which I think looks better
  <MartijnVdS> stick it around town!
  <MartijnVdS> Al Anbell
  <popey> A Lanbell
  <zleap> http://www.zleap.net/ i got it on my website too ( well the new ubuntu one not the ubuntu-uk one)
  <popey> ask dave taylor?
  <zleap> who me ?
  <zleap> ok,   i am filling in an application form,  one of the catagories says I need to be familar with new technologies so I have put I am familar with modern operating systems such as Linux
  <zleap> :D
  <zleap> hmm,   libreoffice does not always show up in the alt-tab list in 11.10
  <jacobw> \o/ hustle
  <zleap> ah,   right if I have 1 document open,  it does not show up, if I start a 2nd (new) document it shows up in alt-tab
  <zleap> While I am familiar with Windows.  I am more interested in modern and open  systems such as Linux (Ubuntu).
  <zleap> hi chrisccoulson
  <chrisccoulson> hi
  <zleap> how are you ?
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Summit Sponsorship Now Open - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/27/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-3/
  <ali1234> zleap: modern technologies = mobile development, apps stores, html5
  <zleap> ah
  <zleap> so ubuntu software centre etc
  <ali1234> and "the cloud"
  <zleap> this is a primary school teaching asssistnat psot
  <zleap> raspberry pI perhaps
  <ali1234> i think that covers most buzzards from the past 12 months
  <ali1234> buzzards lol
  <ali1234> that was not autocorrect, i actually typed that
  <zleap> ok
  <zleap> buzzwords i take it
  <jacobw> ah
  <zleap> ok so would raspberry Pi mean new technologies,
  <ali1234> i dunno about teaching posts
  <ali1234> i'd guess that it's not quite so bleeding edge
  <zleap> given that it is not even out, yet,  I am putting that i am familar with Linux which it will run,  so should not have a problem using it
  <ali1234> you should think about what you'll be doing, and then say you can do that
  <ali1234> i mean literally
  <zleap> helping kids with computers partly I guess
  <zleap> helping to support maths,  english, and the curriculum
  <zleap> sports
  <ali1234> there's no point saying you can use linux if they don't even know what that is
  <Azelphur> ali1234: I've got someone elses miner connected to my bitcoin daemon, got any ideas how I can calculate their hash rate?
  <zleap> maybe
  <ali1234> Azelphur: not without running a pool daemon
  <ali1234> or something else between bitcoind and them
  <Azelphur> ali1234: yea that's what I figured, I found bitcoin mining proxy if you've heard of it, but it doesn't seem to work any more
  <zleap> but would it be useful to know what Linux is given that the reaspberry pi is aimedat schools and will run it
  <zleap> ok will concentrate onother stuff too,
  <Azelphur> I've been trying to figure out why but without much luck, it seems to not accept/reject shares any more
  <ali1234> zleap: that is true, but it's not helpful t put it on a application if the persn reading it does not know what it is
  <zleap> Ok
  <zleap> so put familar with windows
  <ali1234> certainly, if they use windows
  <ali1234> which they probably do
  <zleap> which for me is XP,  given i dumped it at home 2 years ago
  <zleap> yeah,  they do in schools
  <zleap> ok i will re-word what I have put
  <zleap> i have a feeling on slight tangent note that many schools won't be able to afford these raspberry pies given budgets are already under strain
  <ali1234> they are not going to start marketing them to schools for a while anyway
  <popey> schools spend stupid money on computers
  <ali1234> the thing is, they spend lots of money on windows computers because they are expensive
  <MartijnVdS> popey: and not only in the UK.. my sister told me how they do it where she works (as a teacher)
  <ali1234> then they are going to say "we already have windows machines, why do we want this as well?"
  <popey> indeed
  <popey> the IT people will have no clue about RasPi
  <popey> the IT people in schools are able to teach office and little else
  <zleap> popey, so having some knowledge of it is a plus
  <StevenR> popey: that's not the fault of the people
  <StevenR> popey: the IT curriculum is basically rubbish
  <Azelphur> back when I went to school, the IT teacher wasn't that great, and also doubled as the PE teacher \o/
  <jacobw> headline: "Â£3 million computer project regenerates inner city school"
  <ali1234> it doesn't matter who's fault it is
  <zleap> which if I put I am familar with Linux ali1234 said don't no point in putting  Linux on my application if the person reading it doesn't know what it is
  <Azelphur> Didn't have a clue what she was talking about and just kept spreading FUD about how I was a security risk, I think it was a jelousy thing
  <jacobw> lol, IT and PE
  <mrevell> sup exciting Friday evening people?
  <shauno> tis an interesting combination
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I've been told putty "caused viruses"
  <popey> StevenR: i didnt say it was
  <MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
  <zleap> Azelphur, yeah I have had, that,   I find i get more repect from children by saying not sure
  <MartijnVdS> also, we played Netwars on the Novell network after hours :)
  <zleap> rather than tryung to pretend or make out I know everything
  <MartijnVdS> They didn't like that one :)
  <StevenR> popey: I know :)
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've been told File > Save As in MS word was a virus and I was responsible for damaging a computer
  <zleap> Lol
  <jacobw> just leave stupid people alone ;p
  <jacobw> evolution takes care them
  <zleap> i have been given a bbc basic program to type in to gwbasic
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMp1RrCy4w4
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: and when I tried to explain that file > save and file > save as do the same thing, pointing out the title of the window, the teacher grabbed the mouse off me and went panic mode :D
  <MartijnVdS> NO actually THIS one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPbTdqJhRo
  <shauno> that's pretty much the same anywhere you challenge authority
  <popey> depends how you do it
  <zleap> I really want to call this computer group I want to set up hacking group as we are essentially hacking in the proper original meaning sense
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: \o/
  <Azelphur> but re good/bad IT teachers, it really is the teachers fault as to how they handle it, I went through a number of schools
  <jacobw> zleap: hackspace?
  <zleap> yeah
  <zleap> try telling non geeks and managers that
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: We had a few good teachers too. One wrote 64k demos (this was the mid 90s)
  <Azelphur> although I never did actually meet a good IT teacher, I had good music teachers a couple times
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: cool :D
  <zleap> hacking = breaking into computers = illigal
  <Azelphur> I mean, I was grade 4 piano when I hit high school, there was one teacher that just said, here's a complicated piece of music go learn it and left me to my own devices
  <jacobw> IT in secondary education is just a lot of people inventing a job for themselves
  <Azelphur> and there was another teacher who made me complete all the mundane coursework about the basics of how to read sheet music, and got angry with me when I completed the coursework too fast haha
  <zleap> in year 9 i got to play with the doomsday cd,  a large lp size gold disk (circa 1989)
  <Azelphur> so that gives you a good reference of the good/bad context :p
  <MartijnVdS> jacobw: I'd love some kind of apprentice system. Teach someone the "tricks of the trade" of programming
  <zleap> back in the days when they let 1 year 9 and 2 year 7s use computers while the teacher was elsewhere
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's kinda what IRC is, I've pointed quite a few people in the right direction, it's awesome to see someone evolve into a good programmer based on where you started em :p
  <jacobw> i learnt more from IRC than from school during the GCSE years
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Yeah, but it's even cooler IRL
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's easier to spend an afternoon helping someone understand some complex bit
  <Azelphur> Yea, I've certainly learned way more from IRC than I have all the educational type places I've been, combined
  <zleap> i did give one of the kids a ubuntu cd the other day,  I think he said that his mum knew what ubuntu was,  so there is hope he may install it :D
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: perhaps, usually I just break out collabedit or vnc/teamviewer and it works fine over the net :)
  <zleap> i think i may put multi tasking in conversation on this form,  as irc requries you to follow 1 conversation among many
  <jacobw> ha
  <jacobw> so does life in general
  <zleap> yeah
  <Azelphur> you should see me sometimes when I talk with my close friends, sometimes we have up to 3 conversations at the same time
  <Azelphur> (ie, talking to 1 person about 3 different topics in the same window at the same time)
  <zleap> i get that at the after school club,  several kids want you me to do / make something at the same time
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <dwatkins> Azelphur: try doing that in three languages ;)
  <Azelphur> haha
  <dwatkins> It's really difficult the first few times, even if you're fluent in them all, but you get used to it
  <Azelphur> :P
  <zleap> i guess if you are a hacker in the true sense then multitasking a true skill esp if you're programming and are holding on to lots of info at the same time
  <jacobw> humans can't multitask
  <jacobw> context switching is just too difficult for our wetware
  <zleap> neither can comptuers unless they can execute more than 1 instruction at exactly the same time
  <zleap> i was under the impression they just did this very fast,  so it seemed as if they can do this,  ok multi processor systems probably can
  <jacobw> its not about how fast you can process data, its about how well you can keep track of the data your processing
  <zleap> well our brain seems to be able to control lots of body functions at the same time
  <jacobw> the brain does
  <zleap> yeah
  <jacobw> the mind isn't involved
  <zleap> ah, so you meant the human mind can't not the brain
  <jacobw> yeah
  <zleap> ok
  <jacobw> http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/you-cant-multitask/
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Quick Team Update - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/27/quick-team-update/
  <jacobw> mr bacon is blogging tonight
  <zleap> ok we can switch between tasks
  <zleap> what about using windows and going nuts with frustration at the same time
  <jacobw> the time it takes to switch your mind to a task is multiplied many times if you keep switching from one task to another
  <zleap> well i did this with libreoffice earlier, tried to put spaces between paragraphs it insists on indenting a numbered paragraph and adding more numbers,  fed up with itm, I am using lyx saving as text then importing back in to libreoffice to save to doc for submission
  <zleap> so can't really blame windows for driving people nuts its software
  <jacobw> people fustrate themselves, although windows doesn't help
  <zleap> yeah
  <jacobw> i hate windows firewall :( so not like iptables
  <zleap> well what i was doing earlier was just frustrating,  as with lyx and latex i can concentrate on content,  if I want numbered paragraphs i tell it, and it says as i want,
  <zleap> pressing enter does not end up doing things I don't want in a plain text file
  <jacobw> i'm not a fan of 'office productivity suites'
  <jacobw> text editors, wikis and html should be good enough for anyone :p
  <zleap> well for some documents latex is very handy,  esp for doing things like chemical formulae
  <zleap> or complex math stuff
  <jacobw> complex math is what latex is designed for :)
  <zleap> yeah
  <zleap> exactly
  <zleap> but it is also good for typing up assignments
  <zleap> only mention LaTeX to the wrong group of people as in non tech, science groups and they get the wrong idea
  <jacobw> ha
  <zleap> or could do
  <zleap> which reminds me i need to send in my subs for the UK-TUG
  <jacobw> look;gawk;find;sed;talk;grep;touch;finger;find;fl
  <jacobw> ex;unzip;head;tail; mount;workbone;fsck;yes;gasp;fsck;more;yes;yes;eje
  <jacobw> ct;umount;makeclean; zip;split;done;exit:xargs!!;
  <zleap> yeah seen that one :)
  <jacobw> its some debian developer's email signature
  <zleap> what is workbone ?  no man page for it
  <jacobw> cd player
  <zleap> ah
  <jacobw> i had to look that up too
  <zleap> have you tried creating a file called breasts, moving to another user and doing touch breasts  u get cannot touch breasts, permission denied
  <jacobw> haha
  <zleap> usualyl works if you create the initial file as root (sudo)  then doing it
  <Neoline> can anyone help with remote desktop viewer logs in ubuntu?
  <AlanBell> what type of viewer Neoline?
  <jacobw> Neoline: is your ubuntu machine client or serve?
  <Neoline> @AlanBell : someone tried thrice to access my machine over internet as I have a static ip..Is there any place I can see that history?
  <Neoline> @jacobw: I'm a server (i suppose?)
  <jacobw> how do you know that you have a static ip?
  <AlanBell> how do you know they tried?
  <zleap> router may have some info on what has connected
  <Neoline> 1. Cause I know.. :) I mean, our network does have a static IP and its VNC port was accidentally forwarded to my machine..
  <AlanBell> are you in india Neoline?
  <zleap> how do you accidently port forward something
  <Neoline> 2. Cause I could see the Ubuntu notification that another user is trying to access your machine remotely (or something like that)
  <jacobw> assuming you actually have a public address statically assigned to your computer unless your running a VNC server then you're computer would have refused the connection
  <popey> meh, I'd ignore it and disable the port forwarding and get on with your life
  <gordonjcp> indeed
  <AlanBell> and maybe turn off the vino desktop sharing
  <Neoline> Well, we all have static addresses in our network internally.. and recently my machine's IP was changed from 192.168.1.x to y.. Router had a configuration for y already.
  <gordonjcp> Neoline: so chances are it's someone who previously had an account on the box with the IP address yours used to have
  <Neoline> Yes I did that already @popey, @AlenBell. Just curious to find out who tried to access, if that possible
  <AlanBell> and they would not have had access to any other ports probably
  <Neoline> thats*
  <Neoline> And I am in India @AlanBell
  <AlanBell> ok, I don't think that logs anywhere, but when it prompted you it should have said where the connection was coming from I think
  <jacobw> check your not running any VNC servers, if you are check the appropriate access logs, disable the port forward and read about NAT
  <Neoline> @AlanBell : Yes it did :) But it was for a few seconds. So I couldn't note down!
  <AlanBell> jacobw: "the appropriate access logs" was the question, just there are none
  <Neoline> @jacobw : umm.. I'm on Ubuntu 10.04.. any idea which VNC server does it have by default?
  <AlanBell> as vino isn't a system service it doesn't log to /var/log it is a user process
  <Neoline> @AlanBell : Aah.. ok.. got it.. so no chances that there will be a log right?
  <AlanBell> !vino
  <jacobw> Neoline: it doesn't run any by default
  <Neoline> @AlanBell : Oh k.. Got it.
  <AlanBell> Neoline: not in /var/log if it was anywhere it would be in your home directory somewhere, but I am fairly sure it doesn't
  <Neoline> @jacobw : I meant which one it has already installed.. Anyway got it..
  <czajkowski> peekaboo
  <popey> MOO!
  <zleap> boo
  <czajkowski> todays lesson
  <zleap> k
  <czajkowski> do not get in a french cab. crazy drivers
  <zleap> lol
  <Neoline> Hmmm.. vino does not keep logs https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/330310 :( anyway, Thanks a lot for the help guys!
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 330310 in vino "no logs or log files in vino" [Wishlist,In progress]
  <czajkowski> pretty sure we came vrry close to crashing at least twice
  <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
  <zleap> not good,  where are you then,  i assume france but where abouts in france
  <czajkowski> paris
  <zleap> ah
  <AlanBell> oh la la
  <zleap> yeah pretty crazy paris
  <czajkowski> taxi kept crossing the 4 lanes up the tails of ither cars
  <czajkowski> alanbell surprise for jon for anniversary :)
  <zleap> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-fr
  <jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLcwhgrxTWs
  <jacobw> lol
  <Azelphur> ali1234: hmm, this is odd, I think these things can't detect you mining if your solo, I've tried bitHopper and bitcoin mining proxy, they both pass work on, but never report any accepted shares and never calculate a hashrate :(
  <dwatkins> czajkowski: Paris is pretty insane for driving in general - I was on the peripherique once and realised just after someone cut me up changing lanes that we were in an underpass that looked very familiar from a certain car crash that was made quite famous a few years back
  <ali1234> Azelphur: you're doing it wrong
  <Azelphur> D:
  <Azelphur> what am I doing wrong?
  <ali1234> "it"
  <Azelphur> woo \o/
  <Azelphur> ali1234: I've got a guy who's renting me his FPGA miner, but I have no way of telling what he's actually doing, so I'm kinda paying blind at this point >.<
  <ali1234> trololololo
  <Azelphur> indeed D:
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-28
  <phil-wong> Hi
  <jutnux> Morning all.
  <mattt> hello jutnux
  <AlanBell> morning all
  <jutnux> Morning AlanBell \o
  <occupy64k> hello
  <popey> morning
  <jutnux> Hello
  <popey> anyone on 12.04 fancy confirming 923021 ?
  <popey> Daviey: do you get that on your mbp
  <popey> bug 923021
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 923021 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "Screensaver takes a long time to display the password unlock screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923021
  <MartijnVdS> popey: Oh it shows up in the end?
  <popey> yes. takes a while
   * MartijnVdS has rebooted several times because password unlock wouldn't come
  <MartijnVdS> confirmed
  <Daviey> popey: +1'd
  <popey> ta
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <popey> yes
  <brobostigon> morning popey
  <jacobw> morning
  <brobostigon> morning jacobw
  <jacobw> !ping
  <lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
  <AlanBell> tax return done \o/
  <AlanBell> repaymnet due Â£0.60
  <AlanBell> drinks are on me :)
  <jacobw> a panda cola?
  <popey> hah
   * AlanBell is using empathy "people nearby" to debate lunch options with the kids
  <brobostigon> :)
  <popey> \o/ Avahi
  <popey> AlanBell: did you see Evan Dandrea's tweet about irc and jabber
  <popey> (Jabber \o/ btw)
  <gordonjcp> how do I get pulseaudio to see a new sound card?
  <popey> get alsa to see it first I guess/
  <popey> ?
  <gordonjcp> alsa does see it
  <popey> pavucontrol is handy
  <gordonjcp> ah, I need to kill pulse and let it restart
  <gordonjcp> not exactly seamless...
  <AlanBell> popey: I did, I don't understand how jabber relates to IRC though
  <AlanBell> I thought it was a person to person protocol
  <AlanBell> s/jabber/xmpp/
  <popey> you can have rooms
  <AlanBell> I think I set up a server once and had a look at the protocol, can't say I have ever used it with another person
  <AlanBell> you can pass arbitary packets of stuff across it, bit like telepathy tubes
  <directhex> it's called "MUC" - multi user chat
  <directhex> as defined in XMPP Extension Protocol XEP-0045
  <Neoti> so my video editing woes continu!!
  <AlanBell> interesting, and that has existed for some time
  <Neoti> on ubuntu 10.10 kinda works ok with some problems and ogv is a no go... better to use avi if screen capturing etc....
  <AlanBell> anyone running a jabberd server? I can't be bothered to set one up just to look at it
  <AlanBell> and google talk is only in the USA right?
  <Neoti> though i can not get kazam working in ubuntu 10.10 just does not load!
  <AlanBell> I have a feeling most jabber users don't approach it by reading the protocol specifications first. I am going about this the wrong way I think.
  <Neoti> ok FFMPEG might be the root problem...
  <Neoti> or unity ... checking now
  <gord> 10.10, wow
  <gord> is that still supported?
  <AlanBell> !10.10
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) was the thirteenth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.10/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1010
  <gord> doesn't tell me :(
  <AlanBell> it doesn't, I thought most of those did
  <Neoti> AlanBell gord can you recommend a good screen capture program that will output to avi as recordmydesktop only does ogv and the file format is rubish not the program its self...
  <AlanBell> I think it is supported to 12.10, 2 years
  <AlanBell> you can upload .ogv to blip.tv and youtube if youtube is having a good day
  <AlanBell> though most of the time you upload for an hour to youtube and get just a green screen
  <Neoti> i want to edit the video cut bits out add titles etc... and i have proved in my mind that ogv is crap! however the videos i have done in avi on windows, when putting them through kdenlive work fine... well on ubuntu 10.10 as i think either ffmpeg or unity is messing up the video out put in the clip monitor in kdenlive on 11.10.....
  <AlanBell> hmm, not sure then. I use openshot to edit stuff and it handles ogv fine and can export in various formats
  <Neoti> humm i will have to try that out ...
  <Neoti> seems similar to kdenlive
  <Neoti> my requirments for what i do are just ability to add titles, fade in and out, cut a section of video out and delete that section and out put in 1280x720 600k 15FPS mp4 for youtube etc... if it can do that and is easy to use gr8
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: AVI is a file format, not an encoding
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: you can make .avi files that just cannot sanely be edited
  <Neoti> well over the last week i have had more luck with avi then ogv.
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: .avi and .ogv makes very little difference
  <gordonjcp> the codec in use does
  <popey> AlanBell: Google talk isnt USA only
  <Neoti> so based on the above unity/ubuntu 11.10 uses a differant or updated codec which is broken! to the codecs used on ubuntu 10.10 ?
  <jacobw> no
  <jacobw> its nothing to do with ubuntu
  <AlanBell> applications like openshot benefit from an extra year of development Neoti
  <popey> Neoti: read all of the above, and cant actually see what the issue is
  <shauno> a bit slow, but I'm using jabberd14 to provide an xmpp server  (and it sounds like you're confusing google chat with google voice - the later is the telephony 'thing', and is US-only.  talk is just IM/xmpp, and is global)
  <popey> nothing specific anyway
  <AlanBell> shauno: yeah, I am no doubt confused
  <AlanBell> I only looked at XMPP 4 years or so ago when looking at Sametime and SIP stuff
  <AlanBell> any instructions on trying google talk, all I see on http://www.google.com/talk/ is a browser plugin and an XP client
  <shauno> I don't use their service; I run my own jabber server, and can talk to people who are using their service, because xmpp 'federates'
  <AlanBell> ok
  <popey> AlanBell: which client?
  <shauno> I believe the capabilty is coming to Live (nee msn) soon too.  and aol/aim already has it. so eventually we can chat to people cross networks without needing ugly client-side hacks (like having 8 accounts signed into one client)
  <popey> http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Talk/thread?tid=423612adbab19852&hl=en AlanBell
  <popey> 3rd party clients can access it
  <Neoti> ok from the begining for popey, i recorded a test video on ubuntu 11.10 32bit with unity and all updates as of 11am yesterday, i updated kdenlive so i was using the most up to date copy, and in clip monitor when i view the recorded video i get little grey blocks on the video before rendering and befor adding it to the time lline... if i open the recorded video just in move player it views fine no gray little blocks so
  <Neoti> the problem is pointed at kdenlive, so i thought i would add another clip in avi format from a couple of months ago and see what happend and again i got the same little gray blocks in clip monitor so the problem would seem to be kdenlive... i had an ubuntu 10.10 installation on a machine so i updated kdenlive to latest and added the same videos and no little gray blocks. so the problem now points to kdenlive on unity/u
  <Neoti> buntu 11.10. i do still have some problems with rendering but i think i have found a way to fix them
  <popey> Neoti: what video card?
  <Neoti> 04:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G98 [GeForce 8400 GS] (rev a1)
  <popey> colour me unsurprised
  <Neoti> also i have tried this in 11.10 on a dell 15r laptop and i get the same results
  <popey> i get video corruption when using 3d desktop recording on nvidia
  <Neoti> that has an intel graphics card
  <Neoti> humm...... so if i dont use 3d desktop it should be fine ? humm time to test that out
  <popey> i had better success with unit2d and the compositor switched off
  <popey> for recording a 3d game specifically
  <popey> AlanBell: i use bitlbee connected to google talk for my alan@popey.com address.
  <shauno> I've never actually tried bitlbee.  does moving that kinda thing into your irc client really work out well?
  <popey> i dont use it that much tbh
  <popey> not many people contact me via IM anymore
  <Neoti> popey i think you might be right about compositing ? i not longer get grey blocks on 11.04 gonna test on my other machine un unity 2d with no composit
  <popey> i did have some success with just recording the desktop using an ffmpeg script
  <popey> https://launchpad.net/ffscreencast
  <popey> which records the audio from the sound card and from a microphone
  <Neoti> popy AlanBell ok after testing im sticking with avi works in kdenlive 10.10 and my videos from now on are going to be in avi not ogv but i need to find a ubuntu screen capture program that will output in avi format
  <Neoti> AlanBell just testing openshot now ...
  <Neoti> ok i have had a quick play and ogv sucks BIG TIME!!!!!!! the videos i made on windows with CamStudio in AVI format work perfectly for editing, the ubuntu recordings with recordmyscreen suck... i can not edit them well some messes up!!
  <gord> you know you can convert ogv into another format prior to editing right?
  <Neoti> yes and when i did that it might as well had been a ogv file same thing happend.....
  <popey> depends what you convert it to
  <popey> also, this is not news âº
  <Neoti> ogv to avi with memcoder
  <popey> ogv has never been good for video editing
  <gord> would be nice to move things over to webm these days also, theora is old
  <Neoti> WHY THE FOOK DO GOOD PROGRAMS LIKE RECORDMYDESKTOP USE IT THEN !!!!! AGH... OGV SUCKS!!!
  <popey> because some of us dont actually edit
  <AlanBell> it is easy to write to I guess
  <gord> at any rate, if you convert it to say mp4 using mencoder - then still have problems. the issue is not with the container or the codec
  <gord> but rather, the editor
  <Neoti> ok ok... if you are recording something to just dump on youtube fine its ok... but when you want to edit it and add titles and cut bits out ITS FLIPPIN CRAP!!!!
  <popey> +1
  <AlanBell> and you don't have to pay licenses to anyone to create a video in ogv format
  <popey> so convert it?
  <Neoti> i would love to see a program like CamStudio be ported to ubuntu and USE AVI!!!!
  <Neoti> CamStudio is awesome...
  <Neoti> it outputs in a good editable format ... IE Kdenlive will edit it...
  <popey> my ffmpeg script does âº
  <popey> as does kazam
  <Neoti> i want recordmydesktop to switch to AVI!!!
  <Neoti> lol :P
  <gord> avi is a bad format, everyone is moving away from it
  <popey> use h264 in an mkv container and you will have more success IMO
  <Neoti> kazam did not give me the option to save the video after i recorded a 30 sec test clip just loading term typeing ifconfig clear finish video etc
  <Neoti> gord yes h264 and mkv is good... i have had nothing too bad happen when trying to edit that format ...
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: .ogv/.avi makes no difference
  <Neoti> but camstudio outputs to avi so ... have to use what i got...! lol
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: it's just a wrapper around the encoding
  <gordonjcp> like I told you earlier
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: the problem is you basically don't understand video editing ;-)
  <gordonjcp> any sort of compressed format that uses keyframes is going to give you problems
  <popey> Neoti: i recorded a video 5 mins ago with kazam and it worked fine
  <Neoti> gordonjcp i see your point but after riding my hair out for the last week trying to edit 1 10min video the evidence i have says something else is going on.
  <gord> love film send me too many discs these days, keep losing them
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: okay, what are you shooting on?
  <Neoti> recordmydesktop on a HP DX2400 dual core @ 800x600 @15FPS
  <gordonjcp> okay
  <gordonjcp> so what output format is it saving to?
  <Neoti> i have pauses in the video where i clicked pause etc
  <popey> ahhh
  <Neoti> ogv
  <popey> you pause recordmydesktop?
  <popey> yeah, dont do that, thats broken
  <Neoti> yes
  <Neoti> just like in camstudio
  <gordonjcp> Neoti: yes, but what format?
  <popey> gordonjcp: ogv
  <popey> rmd only records to ogv
  <popey> rmd is barely maintained anymore
  <popey> as is xvidcap so i asked for it to be removed from the repo
  <popey> we shoudl fix up kazam and get rmd removed too
  <Neoti> popey yes...
  <Neoti> however on my 11.04 it just does not load
  <gordonjcp> wow
  <AlanBell> what is the package name for kazam?
  <gordonjcp> rmd *really* shows up the graphics corruption bug ;-)
  <Neoti> on 11.10 on my laptop it loads but after recording does not give me options to save
  <popey> AlanBell: its nmot in the repo yet
  <popey> https://launchpad.net/kazam
  <popey> there is a ppa
  <popey> and #kazam
  <popey> dev is very active
  <popey> and is keen to get it in the repo for 12.04
  <swat_> afternoon
  <popey> hi swat_
  <gordonjcp> :-/
  <gord> heh, just an ffmpeg frontend, neat
  <popey> yeah
  <swat_> popey: are you still interested in the lecture idea?
  <gordonjcp> I was going to use something like rmd or kazam to record a demo video of some of my software
  <gordonjcp> that's not going to work though
  <popey> swat_: remind me when/where?
  <gord> should get it moved over to webm
  <swat_> popey: the where would be crawley/brighton - but the date is up for discussion
  <popey> gord: it does already do webm
  <gord> popey, am just reading the code, but it looks hard-coded to x264 from here
  <popey> wonder if he removed webm then
  <popey> you looking at lp:kazam?
  <AlanBell> x264 is the one franhoffer want a cut of right?
  <gord> i am, it actually looks like the temp file gets saved as x264 then it gets encoded with gstreamer over to whatever you want
  <popey> ah
  <gord> the temp file needs to be changed to webm or, really, something lossless
  <gord> AlanBell, franhoffer and about a million other people
  <gord> there is a "consortium" ;)
  <popey> file a bug gord âº
  <AlanBell> gord: a cartel
  <popey> the problem is that webm writing isnt anywhere near as performant
  <popey> so you get a crappy fps
  <Myrtti> I was going to suggest on the mailing list to use a live disk and run 'shred -vn 7' on the disk, but then I read man shred and it says it's not reliable on ex3 (and probably not on ext4 then, either)
  <gord> yea huffyuv would make more sense
  <Myrtti> now I'm disappointed and baffled
  <popey> but huffyuv has colourspace issues
  <popey> rgb vs yuv
  <Neoti> avi created by camstudio on ubuntu 11.10 in kdenlive works
  <penguin42> Myrtti: Shred on the entire disk is OK, shredding individual files on a journalled filesystem is difficult
  <gord> theres a colourspace conversion, but yuv has enough precision to handle it
  <gord> mathematically, rgb -> yuv -> rgb will end up with a different value, but really just because of floating point limitations
  <penguin42> Myrtti: If something overwrites the data in a file the filesystem may just put the new data elsewhere not really overwriting the original sector
  <penguin42> Myrtti: And it'll go through the journal as well
  <popey> in gstreamer gord ?
  <gord> popey, don't follow, whats it got to do with gstreamer?
  <Myrtti> oh, that would make sense, I suspected that could be the case and it was - as I said - baffling
  <popey> how else will the conversion happen gord ?
  <popey> if kazam wrote temp to huffyuv and you choose to export/save to x264 or webm
  <gord> popey, ffmpeg converts the rgb screen capture to huffyuv. gstreamer loads the huffyuv and then just deliverts the video data (doing any conversions it needs, gstreamer handles that fine) to the encoder
  <gord> honestly, pretty much every video codec under the sun is in yuv or some variant anyway
   * AlanBell fails to be impressed by kazam results so far
  <MartijnVdS> Kazam. Is that like shazam?
  <popey> I'd like to see anyone impressed with any screencasting app on linux, especially on a composited desktop â¹
  <popey> they _all_ suck
  <penguin42> the graphics drivers need fixing!
  <penguin42> popey: Are the gnome-screenshot apps working reliably for you with compositing?
  <shauno> hopefully it'll see some improvement when they finally take X out back 'n shoot it
  <penguin42> shauno: Doubt it
  <popey> i hear the gnome shell screencasting app is good
  <popey> not tried it
  <penguin42> popey: The reason I ask about the screenshot is that you'd hope the screencast stuff would use the same mechanisms
  <gord> gnome-screenshot works fine
  <gord> but it takes one huge framebuffer snapshot, screencasting apps can't have that luxury if they want to be quick
  <penguin42> gord: Sure - but isn't it the same interface?
  <gord> no
  <penguin42> ah
  <penguin42> gord: what interface do the screen casters used?
  <popey> x11grab
  <AlanBell> with kazam do you save the file or send it to openshot?
  <penguin42> but either way that means the graphics card is successfully getting the composited data back for the screenshot
  <popey> i always save
  <gord> you are assuming that graphics cards are syncronous
  <AlanBell> ok, I was sending to openshot and it seemed really low resolution and 8 minutes long for some reason. then the desktop crashed altogether
  <gord> they are very very asyncronous, X will return that a geometry on the screen has changed - but the gpu has not drawn it yet
  <penguin42> gord: Ah, and the full screen shot is doing a sync?
  <gord> it doesn't matter for a fullscreenshot
  <gord> you are just capturing what things are like now
  <penguin42> gord: Yeh true
  <AlanBell> turns out kazam is fine, openshot is not best friends with webm right now
  <popey> webm doesnt seem mature enough
  <gord> its pretty good for what i need it for, basically as a format i can trust youtube won't screw up
  <gord> and its better than theora as a "default" for ubuntu, given we can't choose 264
  <popey> yeah
  <gord> the thought occurs that it has been far too long since we have had a new season of the IT crowd
  <popey> they didnt renew
  <popey> iirc
  <gord> extended special in 2012 then thats our lot :(
  <popey> BigRedS: hows the speccy?
   * bigcalm awakens
  <Pendulum> bigcalm: sleeping away your weekend?
  <bigcalm> Pendulum: was at a dinner party until 2am last night. Then had to deliver Hayley to a coach pick-up point for silly o'clock in the morning. Went back to bed :)
  <bigcalm> Pendulum: still feel full from last night
  <popey> gord / AlanBell did we decide that there is a bug already filed about focus stealing from hud if you press alt to open and alt to close it?
  <AlanBell> bug 921249
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921249 in unity "HUD: Using HUD often results in window losing focus" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921249
  <AlanBell> bug 921407
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921407 in unity "application window does not get the focus returned" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921407
  <popey> nice one
  <AlanBell> bug 921512 affects the dash as well as the hud
  <lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921512 in unity "hud doesn't get dismissed if you click in the other monitor" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921512
  <AlanBell> just notice it more on the hud because with the hud you are still doing stuff in the application on the other monitor, if you bring up the dash you are normally switching tasks
  <HazRPG> sup all \o
  <AlanBell> o/ HazRPG
  <AlanBell> how is the land of the pyramids?
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: not too bad :)
  <HazRPG> AlanBell: how's things back home?
  <brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
  <HazRPG> brobostigon: good afternoon ^_^
  <HazRPG> anyone here had any luck with the Huawei e5830 on ubuntu here?
  <HazRPG> doesn't seem to pick it up on 11.10 for some reason correctly :/
  <MartijnVdS> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1411777 ?
  <HazRPG> (in USB mode, not wifi)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I seen that, its an old post that worked on 10.10/10.04... doesn't seem to work at all on 11.10
  <HazRPG> (well lsusb picks it up incorrectly at least)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: shows up as being "12d1:142d" when it should be "12d1:1401" if i'm not mistaken
  <Supermanintights> hey guys, i run the following set up on my computer - hdd's - http://screencast.com/t/FVSbJ2Bp1AE - can someone give me a suggestion on how i can merge G with C?
  <Supermanintights> I've ran out of space on drive C so need to increase it somehow
  <AlanBell> Supermanintights: you appear to be running windows
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: maybe you need usb-modeswitch?
  <Supermanintights> AlanBell, i run windows and ubuntu
  <Supermanintights> windows is the active OS on that screenshot, but it's just what i'm working in - i can switch to ubuntu in seconds if it's required?
  <AlanBell> Supermanintights: well I am not really sure what the question has to do with Ubuntu :)
  <AlanBell> I guess ubuntu is the 20gb drive with 4gb of swap right?
  <Supermanintights> LOL
  <AlanBell> s/drive/partition/
  <shauno> the platform-agnostic answer is that the partitions labelled there as C: and G: aren't going to be mergable if that's what order they're in on-disk.  you need concurrent space for that
  <Supermanintights> AlanBell, the question is justified as ubtunu guys helped me to arrange the different partitions ;-), yes you're right
  <AlanBell> I think windows has something like LVM these days but I don't know what they call it
  <HazRPG> Supermanintights: what shauno said... (took the words out of my mouth almost - sorta speak)
  <Supermanintights> cheers shauno/hazrpg - i'm looking at a way of changing the order now
  <shauno> last time I used windows, the partitioner was a blue & yellow tool in dos :/
  <shauno> so I've no idea what it'll offer to abstract a volume above those two
  <HazRPG> Supermanintights: without risking being hit in the face, the only way your going to be able to do that is lose some data to have some space to merge with
  <HazRPG> s/without/at the risk/*
  <Supermanintights> meh
  <Supermanintights> ok, thanks
  <Supermanintights> i'll find a way
  <HazRPG> Supermanintights: best thing to do, open up the "manage" tool (I forget its actual name in windows, access: right-click "my computer" or "Computer" and pick "Manage") and select the hard drive management one... then screencap that so we can see the order of your drive
  <HazRPG> Supermanintights: alternatively, go into ubuntu and check out gparted
  <Supermanintights> i did try gparted before, but i couldn't figure it out - how to do this task
  <Supermanintights> http://screencast.com/t/xM4pOm8JKT
  <HazRPG> Supermanintights: to merge, your going to have to clear something first, be it the G: drive, etc... but it highly depends on the order your drives are partitioned
  <Supermanintights> would it be better/easier to go back into gparted? (only reason screenshots are windows is because it's what I'm using at the moment) - hte B/G (same one) drive are empty
  <Supermanintights> it's basically a partition i'm trying to extend into C - as i don't have the space to install anything else on it anmore
  <Supermanintights> anymore
  <popey> is G empty?
  <Supermanintights> yeah
  <gordonjcp> Supermanintights: or buy a new hard disk
  <popey> are c and g contiguous?
   * Supermanintights looks up that word
  <popey> next to eachotehr
  <Supermanintights> oh, no
  <HazRPG> popey: see his new screen if you can
  <popey> which one?
  <Supermanintights> http://screencast.com/t/xM4pOm8JKT - (G is now B - i tried cheating that way)
  <popey> based on that screenshot what do you want to do exactly?
  <popey> merge D and G?
  <Supermanintights> no
  <popey> er D and B
  <Supermanintights> d: is my storage, that's fine
  <HazRPG> seems to me, that D and B are logical, so the only merge you can do is D to B...
  <Supermanintights> C:\ has less than 1gb of free space - that's my windows software partition
  <Supermanintights> i need to merge B with C
  <Supermanintights> C needs to be extended
  <popey> ok, that can be done, but its long and you could lose data
  <popey> but I would do it in gparted
  <Supermanintights> i'm happy to go to gparted
  <popey> delete B, move D up the disk
  <Supermanintights> give me 2 seconds and i'll boot into it now
  <popey> no
  <popey> wait
  <popey> bah
  <HazRPG> bah indeed o.O
  <Supermanintights> sorry, i was hasty - "delete B, move up the disk"
  <Supermanintights> ok, what next
  <popey> well, first is 'backup'
  <HazRPG> popey: is it really possible without him a) losing ubuntu settings/etc, b) losing media and storage, c) losing both data
  <popey> yes HazRPG
  <popey> i haven't finished
  <HazRPG> popey: cool, go ahead :)
  <Supermanintights> backup - my backup drive is corrupted, so i'll have to take the risk (I'll live if it loses everything)
  <popey> ok, so basically the thing you want to do is delete B, shrink the extended partition D lives in, move the extended partition containing D to the right, move the swap partition to the right, move ubuntu partition to the right, expand C into the space made
  <Supermanintights> ah i get you
  <Supermanintights> i think
  <popey> you can do all that in gparted
  <Supermanintights> awesome
  <Supermanintights> just backing up my work files and nzb's onto my mem stick
  <Supermanintights> then i'll go do it
  <mattt> if there's anything i dislike doing, it's shopping
  <HazRPG> popey: ahh, i see what you did there...
  <DJones> Has anybody noticed that American TV ad's are actually better than 80% of British TV?
  <gordonjcp> DJones: no, not particularly
  <DJones> Just watching some tv via the web which has american tv ad's and they're far funnier & more entertaining
  <gordonjcp> I don't know
  <gordonjcp> I find that 99% of american TV programmes seem to be just a stream of dick and fart jokes with a laugh track badly dubbed over
  <gordonjcp> or crap police procedurals that constantly drop the anvil about the evils of drugs
  <DJones> I'm just talking about the tv ad breaks, not the programmes themselves
  <gordonjcp> ah, I don't watch TV with ads in
  <gordonjcp> I don't really watch a lot of TV, tbh
  <AlanBell> DJones: when I was in America everything seemed to be adverts for drugs you should demand from your doctor
  <DJones> AlanBell: This is mostly cars & IRS tax savings scams
  <DJones> Apart from the $10 any size, any toppings pizza hit pizza
  <bigcalm> Home alone for the weekend. What do I want for tea?
  <DJones> bigcalm: Pizza or Chilli
  <DJones> Or chilli beef pizza
  <bigcalm> Next!
  <DJones> Salad?
  <bigcalm> Next!
  <Pendulum> sushi
  <DJones> Actually, thinking about it, Salad should be against the COC anyway
  <bigcalm> Pendulum: I'd love to, but supermarket sushi is a joke. If I wanted fresh, it would mean a long drive
  <gordonjcp> o_O
  <gordonjcp> *make* sushi fresh
  <bigcalm> gordonjcp: I'm in the mood for others to make food for me :P
  <bigcalm> Pizza, chinese, chips, kebab. Those are the same-old same-old options I can think of
  <popey> gnnnnnnnnn
  <popey> GPU lockups
  <bigcalm> How does one eat a GPU lockup?
  <SuperEngineer> eee - we used ta dreeem o GPU lockups when we were kids!
  <SuperEngineer> eveninks all o/
  <popey> flour tortilla, tomato puree spread on top, some ham, another tortiila on top, more tomato puree, cheese, ham, another tortilla, cheese, slam in oven. add chilli to taste..
  <mrevell> bigcalm,  Hey, around?
  <bigcalm> ...
  <bigcalm> Oops
  <penguin42> http://www.youtube.com/my_speed is interesting, speed averages as seen by youtube for you, your isp, apparent location, country etc
  <gordonjcp> interesting stuff
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: ooh, shiny
  <penguin42> I'm averaging about 7.1Mbps apparently - ADSL sync'd at about 11Mbps
  <MartijnVdS> I'm still waiting (since October..) for the fibre people to finish their work
  <MartijnVdS> Fibre with my address on it sticks out of the ground 7 floors down
  <MartijnVdS> I WANT MY 500/500!
  <penguin42> MartijnVdS: And then what is supposed to happen? Do they run fibre up to your flat?
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: everyone gets a (set of) fibre for themselves
  <penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK, it's just it would kind of make sense for a building of that size to run fast fibre to the basement and shove a switch on it
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: so 500/500 for everyone who wants it!
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: they're thinking big :)
  <SuperEngineer> I love the way SETI@Home keep sending *me* BOINC work packets to search for... me.
  <SuperEngineer> Here I am - right under their noses!
  <SuperEngineer> ;)
  <MartijnVdS> ?
  <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  ? to you too
  <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: â½
  <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just my way of saying hi
  <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Hi! :)
   * bigcalm would like to be able to drag/drop contacts between google accounts in Thunderbird. Somebody make this happen please
  <bigcalm> Oh, it did work :D
  <MartijnVdS> wut
  <MartijnVdS> you can drag contacts from tbird to gmail?
  <popey> gnnnn
  <popey> another gpu lockup
  <popey> this thinkpad can't come fast enough
  <MartijnVdS> popey: gpu lockup? what kind of gpu
  <popey> 04:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation Device 08a0 (rev a2)
  <swat_> 3~/lastlog -h
  <swat_> hehe, that went well
  <popey> wow, have you heard the bong you get in a terminal if you press backspace on a command line that has nothing on it
  <popey> in unity2d
  <MartijnVdS> popey: no?
  <popey> oh, also from irc hilights
  <popey> its offensively loud
  <MartijnVdS> popey: BOING
  <popey> yeah, thanks
  <StevenR> popey: *BONG*
  <popey> sonar
  <popey> in mixer -> sound effects
  <MartijnVdS> try 'glass'
   * popey chooses mute
  <popey> trying unity 2d to see if i still get gpu lockups
  <bastones> What GPU do you have popey? Just wondering.
  <MartijnVdS> bastones: an nvidia one
  <bastones> Ah right
  <MartijnVdS> popey: nouveau or the non-free driver?
  <bastones> Have you installed the proprietary driver?
  <popey> i am using nvidia-current, yes
  <MartijnVdS> popey: does nouveau work at all?
  <bastones> Did you have the same issue(s) when using the nouveau driver?
  <popey> it works, but i havent used it recently
  <bastones> You may want to try uninstall the proprietary driver perhaps. just a thought.
  <popey> sure, one thing at a time
  <bastones> I suggested it in the case that using Unity 2D results in the same issue.
  <HazRPG> anyone good at debugging/fixing audio issues? Because I'm sadly still without sound :(
  <HazRPG> seems jackd screwed things up (and it only got installed because an app installed it), however reverting back to pulse/alsa seems to not be working
  <HazRPG> pulse just seems to hang on startup
  <popey> did you uninstall jackd?
  <MartijnVdS> yes, and jackd2 :)
  <mattt> uk netflix is horrendous
  <mattt> what's the deal?
   * mgdm discovers the Magic Trackpad he got works with gestures if you use Unity, but requires faff to make it work on not-Unity
  <mgdm> bah
  <mgdm> oh, it requires compiz
  <mgdm> Hmmm
  <zleap> hi all
  <ali1234> popey: so are you using nvidia on precise?
  <ali1234> i want to upgrade because unity keeps crashing when i minimize windows
  <ali1234> it's happened about 5 times now
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Python GTK Documentation - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/28/python-gtk-documentation/
  <ali1234> !hardy
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on May 12 2011, Server support continues until 2013. See !upgrade, !lts and !eol for more details.
  <swat_> !precise
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784 - Blueprints at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
  <swat_> nice
  <pangolin> I am.
  <ali1234> maybe i should upgrade this VPS
  <ali1234> i wonder what the options are
  <swat_> when's the podcast back?
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
  <czajkowski> boo
  <davmor2> czajkowski: treated myself to a new mobo/processor/memory bundle so am trying it out
  <jacobw> evening
  <davmor2> next skype test
  <czajkowski> sweet
  <gord> would quite like a new motherboard
  <davmor2> gord: Â£149 quad core phenom asus mobo complete with uefi onboard gfx(but I'm using my dedicated card) 4gig of memory but upto 32gig seemed fair to me :)
  <gord> davmor2, i just want a new motherboard as the usb controller is acting up on mine ;)
  <davmor2> gord: what CPU?
  <gord> davmor2, quad core i7 on mine
  <davmor2> hmmm can't help you out there sorry :(
  <gord> to be honest, the only reason i haven't got one is because i'd have to take everything apart and put it back together again
  <gord> not the most fun way of spending my weekend
  <davmor2> gord: that's what I've just done I had great fun apart from the fact I only had a 20 not 24 pin power connector :)
  <davmor2> right I'm gone enjoy your weekends all
  <shauno> re: twitter; does popey really have tiny fingers?
  <gord> i've not spent a large amount of time looking at popey's fingers
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road  28th January 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=64
  <popey> shauno: have you seen the size of leffe glasses?
   * mgdm makes chocolate cake
  <mgdm> mmmm, leffe
  <shauno> yes, I have a few.  living with students ftw :D
  <popey> heh
  <jutnux> Hey all, what have we been up to tonight?
  <directhex> fosdem gives opportunities for leffe
  <shauno> mostly, arguing with people who are wrong on the internet.  luckily, elsewhere entirely :)
  <directhex> drunk as nature intended: out of the bottle, for breakfast
  <mgdm> hard core
  <jutnux> Sweet
   * popey watched benjamin button with wifey whilst drinking leffe bruin
  <jutnux> Sounds fun
  <popey> 7.5/10
  <jutnux> I sat playing poker with 8 other people and becoming slightly entoxicated.
  <mattt> had a look at netflix uk -- bit disappointing
  <popey> how so?
  <popey> other than silverlight
  <jutnux> Netflix was good for the month free trial ;-)
  <mattt> popey: selection is terrible
  <mgdm> I'm hoping they get an app on the Sony Bravia some time soon so I can try it out
  <mgdm> Lovefilm has that, for what it's worth
  <shauno> I've been rather disappointed with netflix too
  <shauno> the good news is that it adapts if it thinks you're travelling.  you'll be offered the US library from a US IP
  <shauno> other than that, it's mostly bollywood and chinese movies
  <shauno> a fantastic example, is that it has "donnie darko 2: samantha darko".  but not "donnie darko" itself.  B-movies'R'us
  <mgdm> I didn't even know there was a sequel
  <popey> stay that way
   * mgdm is currently watching Ghostbusters
  <shauno> neither did I.  until I got netflix-uk ;)
  <mgdm> hehe, thanks for the anti-recommendation
  <popey> bedlington methinks
  <popey> nn chaps
  <popey> and Daviey
  <mgdm> g'night popey
  <shauno> I understand that they have to renegotiate content with the local licencees.  my main problem is that you can only do the trial once.  so I can't check back in 6 months to see if they have any content yet
   * mgdm is still amused that the XML namespace for XUL is http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul
  <mattt> shauno: i did a random search for superbad and two of the actors in it ... nothing came up
  <mattt> shauno: which gives you an indication as to how lacking it is
  #ubuntu-uk 2012-01-29
  <ali1234> what's the syntax for wildcards in a bind zone file?
  <matti> ;]
  <matti> mgdm: Who you gonna call???
  <jacobw> rfc1912 2.7
  <ali1234> do i need @ and *.@ or is just *.@ enough?
  <shauno> I just use *.
  <ali1234> *.@ doesn't seem valid... the admin tool won't accept it
  <ali1234> *.example.com. got turned into just *
  <jacobw> afaik, the wildcard will match anything in its scope that isn't otherwise defined
  <shauno> I use @ for the SOA record.  and then *. IN A wh.at.ev.er
  <ali1234> i don't have a SOA record
  <shauno> I'm not sure how that works then; I'm authorative for the domain, so I kinda need one
  <shauno> (the SOA has refresh, serial, ttl, etc)
  <ali1234> i just have @ 10800 IN A w.x.y.z
  <ali1234> and now i have * 1080 IN A w.x.y.z as well
  <shauno> try *. IN A w.x.y.z
  <shauno> that works here, but that's in a full record
  <ali1234> but does that replace the one with @ or in addition to it?
  <shauno> I honestly couldn't tell you; the only @ records I have are the SOA ones
  <ali1234> *. isn;t accepted
  <shauno> (for domains I answer, I'm the only NS or the auth NS, so it's a full record)
  <ali1234> "syntax error in name field"
  <ali1234> it will only allow me to enter * 10800 IN A ...
  <ali1234> oh well, i'll just wait 3 hours and see whathappens
  <shauno> hm, I can't force that error
  <shauno> I get "ignoring out-of-zone data (*)" for "*.", which I was really sure was valid.  and an a-ok for * IN A ..
  <shauno> (using named-checkzone)
  <jacobw> shouldn't *. match anything up to root?
  <shauno> that's my understanding, yeah
  <shauno> I rather confused by not having an @ SOA record tho.  I don't have any zone without such a record
  <ali1234> i'm entering the config into an online web interface
  <ali1234> it probably has a hidden SOA record or something
  <jacobw> i'm thinking that because *. would match anything up to the root its considered out of zone
  <ali1234> and then just merges what you enter
  <jacobw> whereas * is kind of wrong because it doesn't incomplete but only matches within the zone so its ok
  <shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/820737/   that's what mine looks like.  * IN A ad.dr.es.s works for me, but *. doesn't; which isn't how I understood it
  <shauno> but ^ is why not having an SOA confuses me
  <ali1234> shauno: i don't have access to the whole config file, just a web form where i enter a snippet
  <ali1234> so the SOA record is probably outside my control
  <shauno> ouch
  <shauno> that kinda makes sense, and kinda sucks at the same time
  <shauno> I prefer to see it, even if I can't touch it
  <ali1234> well it's pretty cool... i can put SFR record etc i assume
  <ali1234> but yeah it would be nice to see some context
  <ali1234> hmm looks like putting * in the A record overrides all the defined CNAMEs
  <shauno> yeah; there's no particular order.  a wildcard will win, even if it's last
  <ali1234> hmm
  <ali1234> so i can't have a wildcard that would accept potential mistyped addresses eg wwww.example.com, while also defining specific subdomains for other servers?
  <shauno> in all honesty, bind9 makes my ex-wife look like the paragon of common sense.  and she was american.
  <jacobw> lol
  <shauno> glad someone chuckled.  the awkward silence was starting to look spiteful ;)
  <jacobw> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4592#section-2.2.1
  <jacobw> its too late to be thinking about DNS
  <Pendulum> hah
  <Pendulum> shauno: I chuckled and I'm American. I'm not sure what that says about me.
  <shauno> Pendulum: american ultimately had nothing to do with it.  it's just a more straight-forward punchline :)
  <Pendulum> shauno: I meant more that I wasn't sure what it said about me that I liked the punchline :)
  <shauno> the alternative would sound less like a joke, and more like .. dude
  <directhex> moo.
  <shauno> short version, she holds world records in her weight class for powerlifting.  and I think solairs is kinda neat in it's own little ways.  neither wrong, just basic incompatibilities
  <ali1234> ah... i think can put the wildcard as a cname, then it doesn't overwrite the other cnames :)
  <shauno> anyhow, enough excuses.  * IN A works here.  I've no idea what pre-processing is happening there
  <directhex> so what's the IN mean?
  <jacobw> INternet
  <shauno> india?  (internet address?  honestly .. my bind-foo isn't workable, not heavy)
  <shauno> er, is/not
  <directhex> it's hard to google for "in"
  <shauno> I have a feeling IN is a leftover
  <jacobw> yeah, its vestigal
  <shauno> I have IN A, IN AAAA, IN SRV, IN TXT .. all IN ..
  <jacobw> unix and linux system administration page 577 defines IN as internet
  <shauno> I'll bow to that then.  this bottle doesn't define it at all
  <jacobw> you don't need it anymore, by default IN is assumed by all implementations
  <jacobw> bottles don't define much :)
  <shauno> that bit I didn't know; for the most part, I just copy lines that I know to work
  <shauno> I get one day off this week.  bottles define that day.  nothing more, nothing less
  <directhex> hm... how much extra hate do i get if i add two architectures to src:mono on debian?
  <jacobw> why hate?
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] More Ubuntu Accomplishments Hacking - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/29/more-ubuntu-accomplishments-hacking/
  <ali1234> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 777 2012-01-29 04:33 access.log
  <ali1234> how is it possible for the webserver to be writing to this file?
  <hamitron> does it pass events to some logging daemon?
  <hamitron> off to bed anyway
  <hamitron> gl o/
  <danfish> tell me why I don't like Sunday, tell me why I don't like Sunday....coz tomorrow's Monday :(
  <MartijnVdS> danfish: that's not how the song goes ;)
  <danfish> MartijnVdS: quite. I spend the week looking forwards to Friday and the weekend and it goes too quickly
  <danfish> ho hum, a week off in Feb to recharge my batteries and jumpstart some projects :)
  <MartijnVdS> danfish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGgMZpGYiy8&ob=av3n
  <danfish> ahh, the cure - the music of my youth
  <danfish> music is not the same now </endoldgitmode>
  <jutnux> Morning
  <daubers> Morning
  <popey> morning
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <jutnux> Howdy
  <bigcalm> Ug
  <daubers> think it may be past time to retire the old NSLU2 :(
  <daubers> taking it nearly 10 minutes to run an SQL query
  <popey> heh
  <bigcalm> Things I have discovered about Thunderbird: 1) you can drag contacts from one account to another. 2) this deletes them from the original account just fine. 3) the target account does not have the moved contacts after reloading Thunderbird
  <bigcalm> I have lost countless contacts :(
  <popey> uhm
  <popey> unity 2d remembers which desktop you opened apps on
  <popey> thats odd
  <bigcalm> For instance, I used to have popey's mobile number. This is no longer the case
  <bigcalm> popey: you can sleep safely at night now
  <daubers> probably shouldn't have asked libre office to plot all 300000 rows of that table :(
  <popey> my mobile number isnt hard to find âº
   * MartijnVdS looks in his mobile phone
  <MartijnVdS> indeed :)
  <danfish> bigcalm: nah - to summon popey just beam the circle of friends into the night sky ala batman ;)
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <HazRPG> heh
  <HazRPG> \o hi
  <MartijnVdS> danfish: not an image of a pope?
  <HazRPG> my current egy number is sooooo easy to remember!
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 123456789?
  <HazRPG> all I have to remember is the last 4 digits
  <MartijnVdS> 1337!
  <HazRPG> because it starts with 0111110
  <MartijnVdS> Binary number?
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: almost!
  <HazRPG> tis awesome!
  <MartijnVdS> I haven't found any pattern to my phone number yet
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: like i said, my egy number is mega!
  <popey> mine is in my email sig now
  <HazRPG> cos you get to pick your number from a list here if you get a month sub. type contract
  <MartijnVdS> popey: don't you get prank callers from that? (when emailing public lists)
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: depends on the mailing lists really
  <HazRPG> lol
  <HazRPG> google really wants people to make sure they read their new terms don't they o.O
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Have you seen the abuse IRC ops get _on irc_? I wouldn't want k1dd13s to know my phone number :)
  <HazRPG> 2 e-mails, and several notifications
  <danfish> daubers: talking of old hardware, I've just pressed my viglen mpc back into service!
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: same
  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I like that though. Lots of other companies change their TOS/privacy policies without notice
  <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: true, true
  <daubers> danfish: \o/ mine still cuts out randomly :)
  <danfish> daubers: (I'm running debian on it but don't tell anyone!)
  <HazRPG> right i have some errants to attend to, speak to ya all later \o
  <popey> not yet MartijnVdS
  <HazRPG> s/errants/errands/*
  <daubers> danfish: Heh :) I blame the uupc bunch for supplying me with duff hardware
  <daubers> though it might just need the heatsink to be reseated.....
  <danfish> daubers: time for a class action suit ;)
  <daubers> danfish: Is that what batman wears?
  <daubers> note: I may be doped up on every anti flu remedy I could find in the flat, and may make even less sense than usual
  <danfish> haha
  <danfish> daubers: best flu remedy ever = hot toddy + whisky + cocodamol (soluble)
  <danfish> take 4 times daily until comatose
  <danfish> is AlanBell around? How to cook the perfect roast chicken?
   * popey looks at his chicken in the oven
   * popey doubts it will be perfect but it will be tasty
  <ging> did you watch how to cook like heston?
  <ging> he did a chicken
  <ging> he massively under cooks it for 2hours then over cooks it for 15 minutes
   * MartijnVdS waves Cooking for Geeks around
   * daubers is now tempted to nuke libre office
  <daubers> it's still trying to graph this stuff
  <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I wouldn't expect IRC trolls to make phone calls, it would show up on their parent's bill
  <AlanBell> danfish: not sure how to cook chickens, but I have some great recipes for rat http://reocities.com/SunsetStrip/amphitheatre/8707/rats.html
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I've had someone from #u-nl make "fake" phone calls using SIP gateways in China
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: all I heard was silence, but it happened several times/day, sometimes at night
  <AlanBell> that isn't good
  <Pendulum> MartijnVdS: that's a bit frightening
  <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: it stopped after I talked to Vodafone about it
  <popey> bah
  <popey> nouveau gives me big black boxes where web content should be
  <popey> nvidia gives me gpu lockups
  <MartijnVdS> it's trying to tell you to stop browsing, start working :)
  <popey> this thinkpad can't arrive soon enough
  <penguin42> popey: Is this in unity2d or 3d? (for both Nouveau and nvidia?)
  <popey> 3d
  <popey> i have used nvidia driver for both and get gpu lockups on both 3d and 2d
  <popey> only just switched to nouveau to see if i still get the lockups
  <popey> and now I get lots of flicker and black boxes in content
  <penguin42> I'd hope nouveau can cope with 2d
  <popey> 2d still does compositing
   * popey logs out and into 2d
  <penguin42> popey: Yeh but it doesn't push it anywhere as hard
  <penguin42> popey: And I'd assume it doesn't use GL to do it?
  <gord> compositing is gl
  <penguin42> hmm that's a shame; it works ok on cards that don't do any native GL (e.g. cirrus in KVM) but I guess that's the emulation in X?
  <gord> compositing is turned off
  <MartijnVdS> How does it composite then?
  <MartijnVdS> if compositing is turned off
  <popey> i give up
  <popey> think I'll just put this laptop away and use my desktop until the thinkpad arrives
  <penguin42> popey: Please donate it to a Nouvaeu dev
  <popey> its going to my wife
  <penguin42> if you just do a metacity --replace & it'll be useable on one of them
  <popey> gonna back it up and stick osx on it
  <gord> MartijnVdS, uh, it doesn't?
  <MartijnVdS> gord: then how do windows appear on the screen etc.?
  <gord> MartijnVdS, that is not what compositing is
   * MartijnVdS looks confused
  <gord> a compositing window manager is a window manager that allows windows to be layered over each other, that is not what something like metacity does in its 2d mode
  <gord> it just blits shapes
  <penguin42> I'm not sure metacity even does that - it just puts the window where it wants it and the app draws where X tells it
  <gord> more likely yes
  <penguin42> it's much more efficient, but obviously not as pretty
  <MartijnVdS> http://cgi.cs.indiana.edu/~oracle/ \o/
  <popey> bah, unity 2d firefox flickers like bonkers with nouveau
   * popey pokes chrisccoulson with a stick
  <chrisccoulson> hi popey
   * popey tickles aquarius 
  <popey> what ho!
  <aquarius> yo
  <OmNomDePlume> Anyone watching the tennis?
  <aquarius> I have a survey question: is it substantially useful to have a version of summit on your mobile phone which works when you don't have a network connection? Specifically, when would this be useful? (Obviously having it is more useful than not having it; I'm trying to work out *how* useful.)
  <popey> when walking between hotel and venue
  <popey> and in evening when you're out and about in a foreign country and there is no 3g (expensive) and no wifi
  <MartijnVdS> When random people are clogging the conference wifi
  <popey> also at breakfast where the wifi didnt reach
  <MartijnVdS> with their apt-get updates/upgrades
  <popey> that doesnt happen so much these days
  <popey> UDS wifi is probably the best conf wifi
   * popey tickles Nafallo 
  <MartijnVdS> popey: You haven't been to YAPC::EU or FOSDEM have you ;)
  <popey> i havent been to fosdem for a while
  <aquarius> OK. There are two issues with offline access to summit. The first is that once you've taken something offline, it's quite likely to go out of date, especially given the rapidity with which the UDS schedule changes over the course of the week; the second is that you'd have to have gone and visited summit while online to get the data to cache. Do either of those constitute a severe problem?
  <popey> last time I went the wifi was shocking
  <OmNomDePlume> Djokovic is serving for the championship.
  <popey> no aquarius
  <popey> aquarius: so long as the UI lets you know how stale the data is
  <popey> and provides and easy 'sync' button
  <aquarius> I agree entirely that it'd be useful at breakfast and in the evenings, I just don't know whether it's useful *enough* that I'm prepared to put the work in to *try* and make it possible :)
  <MartijnVdS> ah, so it's a laziness issue :P
  <popey> arguably you want to be away from summit in the evenings
  <popey> and be doing things like drinking / eating / team-building
  <aquarius> MartijnVdS, well, it's a time-and-resources issue; I only have a limited amount of spare time, and I have more projects than I have spare time. So I'm trying to work out whether I should do further work on summit rather than one of my other projects ;)
  <aquarius> I've already made it mobile-friendly, which fixes one of my two big annoyances at UDS; the other big annoyance is not having access to summit when I'm away from the wifi, so I'm trying to quantify how much that also annoys other people :)
  <popey> right, laptop pretty much unusable right now
  <aquarius> s/two big annoyances/two big summit-related annoyances/ ;-)
   * popey kicks off a backup and looks for an OSX CD
  <popey> need a new hostname for the thinkpad when it arrives
  <MartijnVdS> deep-thought
  <gord> aquarius, don't we have that app now?
  <bigcalm> ponder-stibbons
  <gord> its like a conference app and you get the summit through that
  <aquarius> gord, the app is shit. It's shit, yes it is.
  <bigcalm> !ohmy | aquarius
  <lubotu3> aquarius: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
  <gord> it really is, but better than using summet.ubuntu on my phone
  <popey> ooo deep-thought I like
  <aquarius> Guidebook is constantly out of date, it constantly tries to cache
  <aquarius> gord, why's Guidebook better?
  <aquarius> bigcalm, I keep forgetting that. Thanks.
  <gord> summit doesn't fit easily
  <bigcalm> :)
  <aquarius> gord, yeah, that's what I've fixed. It now does, beautifully :)
  <gord> woo
  <aquarius> my goal here is to kill guidebook stone dead and have people just use summit, because we can rev it more quickly and do what we want with it.
  <gord> does summit have some javascript to auto-update as well?
  <aquarius> not at the moment, no (although being able to hit "refresh" does that well enough, I think)
  <bigcalm> aquarius: the workplace day in Wolves is going fortnightly. Any more chance of getting you to join us? ;)
  <aquarius> bigcalm, the issue is that most days I'm not really able to travel; I'm tethered here :)
  <aquarius> gord, I'd only need auto-updating JS if summit also works offline, which is what I'm debating doing as my next piece of work on it
  <aquarius> hence the questions :)
  <bigcalm> aquarius: the cafe has draft beer
  <aquarius> heh. I'm not tethered here because this is the only place with beer in it :)
  <bigcalm> :P
  <bigcalm> It also includes the occasional pretty red-head. I get a ribbing from davmor2 every time I look up from my screen
  <aquarius> now, that's just gonna distract me from work
  <gord> hrm yeah, wifi.. especially since chances are, hotel room wifi is crap
  <gord> i like to look up and plan my sessions in the morning before breakfast
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're calling aquarius a pretty redhead now? :P
  <AlanBell> o/ aquarius
  <AlanBell> you did the flat view? awesome, it was on my list to do that before -q
  <aquarius> AlanBell, ya. Well, mhall and cjohnston did most of the work; I just added some tweaks. summit is now lovely on mobiles, yay
  <AlanBell> yay
  <AlanBell> I was going to do it as a nested <ul>
  <aquarius> AlanBell, my first set of changes are in trunk now, which is nice.
  <AlanBell> it is nicer to read with orca like that too
  <aquarius> OK, next survey question. If you're offline (let's say you're in a restaurant somewhere offsite at UDS), and you pull up summit (which now works offline), and summit knows that the data it's showing is five hours old *but* you don't have a network connection (and so can't refresh it), should it still tell you that the schedule is 5 hours old (and might have been changed in the interim) even if you can't do anything
  <aquarius>  about it?
  <popey> yes
  <aquarius> why?
  <aquarius> (not necessarily disagreeing with you; just clarifying)
  <popey> because i may assume that the device synced when i was in the hotel
  <popey> but it didnt, and I dont know that
  <aquarius> right. (Note: it will not do so. The one advantage of an actual native app over a website is that a native app can sync even when you're not looking at it.)
  <popey> look at the email client on iphone
  <popey> right at the bottom of your inbox is a date/time stamp of when you last synced mail
  <popey> tis handy
  <aquarius> popey, do you have a screenshot of said email client exhibitng that?
  <popey> i do/can
  <aquarius> (from google images is fine; it doesn't have to be yours, so you don't have to blur out all the email names etc)
  <popey> see twitter
  <popey> https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/163635555500949507/photo/1
  <aquarius> gotcha
  <aquarius> and the refresh arrow next to it will update that?
  <popey> yes, or pull down
  <popey> and the status changes
  <popey> see twitter âº
  <popey> https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/163635960666521601/photo/1
  <popey> interestingly thats arguably an old app
  <aquarius> ?
  <aquarius> don't know what that means
  <popey> it might not be the 'best' way
  <popey> facebook shows the 'last updated' date time in the bit when you pull the UI down
  <popey> https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/163636826865807360/photo/1
  <aquarius> ya, FB on android does the same thing
  <popey> which is probably preferable
  <popey> but the stupid thing is that will trigger a 'get'
  <popey> or at least try to
  <popey> or give you some 'no network' error
  <popey> although if you pull down and dont let go, but push back up, it doesnt update
  <popey> only updates if you pull down and let go
  <aquarius> I can handle that, though
  <aquarius> it won't go and GET and then fail and give you a "no page available", no fear :)
  <popey> âº
  <aquarius> Summary question 3: the offline stuff will inevitably mean that you have to refresh the page a bit more often (because you'll get cached data more often). Is it a good idea that summit should work this way on all browsers (desktop and mobile), or just on mobile?
  <gord> geez, steam for android eats up a lot of battery
  <popey> wait, there's steam for android now?
  <popey> (and not linux desktop)
  <penguin42> aquarius: Does that necessarily have to be true? I mean if you're find you're online can't you fetch the data anyway and not rely on the cache?
  <aquarius> penguin42, no. That's not how appcaches work. If you've appcached a page, then the browser gets it from the cache and doesn't even look at the internet. It will then, after it's displayed it, look at the internet to see if there's a newer version, and the result of that can be detected with javascript.
  <gord> popey, its not steam steam, its really just an IM
  <gord> you can't install mobile games with it or anything
  <penguin42> aquarius: oh that's ok, if it displays the cached one, and then updates if it gets it; bonus points for displaying some indicator that it's updating
  <popey> ah
  <kvarley> Is there a chat application that can be overlayed on OpenGL games? Like Raptr and Steam.
  <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Amy and Andrew: Behind the scenes - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/01/28/amy-and-andrew-behind-the-scenes/
  <Guest37546> can someone help me i want to install ubuntu on an old laptop running windows me. i don't think the disk drive is working and my other comps are macs
  <Guest37546> hello?
  <Myrtti> do you know if the laptop can boot off USB?
  <Guest37546> i don't think so i was in the bios earlier setting cd to first boot option and didn't notice anything about usb
  <Myrtti> it has a CD drive tho?
  <Guest37546> yeh and a floppy disk drive but i don't think the cd drive is working properly
  <Myrtti> I have no ideas :-|
  <Myrtti> you could try the CD anyway
  <Guest37546> ok thanx for trying
  <Guest37546> i did but it won't recognise there is a cd in the drive anymore
  <directhex> Guest32137, so you can't boot from any external media at all?
  <Guest37546> not that I'm aware of no. unless you know a way to use a floppy disc?
  <penguin42> Guest37546: Does it have USB - just can't boot from it?
  <Guest37546> yeh
  <penguin42> Guest37546: You *might* be able to do it with a Grub boot floppy
  <Guest37546> what is thet?
  <Guest37546> *that
  <penguin42> Guest37546: Grub is one of the Linux boot loaders, you can get a premade image of Grub that you can write to a floppy, it can then boot off other devices - *if* the BIOS can see the other device
  <directhex> you're venturing into lands that require a high degree of technical expertise. as in "i'm a 7 year linux sysadmin, and wouldn't want to do any of the choices available to me" if i could avoid it
  <penguin42> not forgetting holy water, a cockrel and vials of mercury
  <aquarius> new question for Android people: why should I install cyanogen? Interested to hear people's reasons. :)
  <penguin42> aquarius: Depends what on; it's more responsive and fixes some bugs in the standard install on my phone
  <aquarius> bugs?
  <aquarius> I like the "more responsive" thing, because that and battery life are the reasons I'm contemplating doing this, which is something I swore I wouldn't do :)
  <penguin42> aquarius: Yeh, the standard ROM on the Orange San Francisco (Aka ZTE Blade) had the compass pointing 180deg out - as I found out the hard way
  <aquarius> oh, right, I don't have that sort of bug :P
  <penguin42> I'm not sure the battery life is great on cyanogen
  <penguin42> aquarius: What does your phone currently have on?
  <aquarius> stock Android 4.0 ICS
  <penguin42> hmm if you're on ICS (very nice...) then I doubt there is as much gain
  <aquarius> it's not very nice. It's slow and it eats battery.
  <penguin42> My phone was on 2.2 when 2.3/2.4 was already out, hence it was a good upgrade
  <aquarius> that's why I want to fix it :)
  <penguin42> aquarius: Which phone?
  <aquarius> Nexus S
  <penguin42> aquarius: Well the other thing was my phone was cheap, so if I bricked it then I didn't have to worry too much; now a Nexus S I guess the decision is a little different
  <aquarius> :)
  <directhex> aquarius, look at cyanogenmod as the biggest community android distro. usual reasons for replacing your bundled os apply
  <aquarius> directhex, what usual reasons?
  <popey> aquarius: i put cyanogen on an htc hero to get newer android and plain android so not sense UI'd
  <directhex> your bundled os is filled with sucky crapware and is old?
  <aquarius> ya, but it isn't. I've got a Nexus S: it runs stock Android, and it's running ICS>
  <directhex> so 0 benefit
  <aquarius> this is one of the reasons I'm resistant to new ROMs; I wanted to see whether eveyrone's reason for changing ROMs was "get rid of sense UI and crapware and get an upgrade" and so on, none of which apply to me
  <jacobw> the google branded phones have current stock android
  <aquarius> the reason I'm contemplating this (which I said I'd never do) is that I upgraded to ICS and I am dog sick of it being slow and clunky and eating battery like there is no tomorrow
  <jacobw> there isn't much cost to trying a few different ROMs
  <popey> there is if the custom rom is unreliable
  <jacobw> the larger ROM projects are usually reliable
  <Azelphur> I just found out you can generate bitcoin vanity addresses :D
  <aquarius> there's a time cost, at least.
  <aquarius> and also a mental cost in having to understand a load of stuff that I don't want to
   * Myrtti loves JuiceDefender
  <Azelphur> 1AZLPHRgfVgdSbwGeZAqrkjmskDTc2j7Uu valid address :D, probably will try and get 1AzeLphur* at some point but it'll take a couple days of crypto to get it
  <jacobw> the time required should mostly be to root and flash, which is quick with AAHK
  <aquarius> no. I also need to understand what a "radio" is, whether I need it, whether I need to download google apps separately, whether I need to "root" my phone, why I need to root it...
  <aquarius> what "aahk" is, and so on :)
  <jacobw> its not as complicated as you'd think, aahk is 'android advanced hack kit' which will root, install a bootloader with tools and flash a radio image for you.
  <aquarius> my brain's already full, though. To learn new stuff I have to forget something ;-)
   * aquarius vacillates about whether to install a new ROM.
  <jacobw> after that all you need to do is to put the rom image on storage and flash it from the bootloader tools
  <popey> jacobw: its not complicated, but it's extra stuff to put in the brain
  <BigRedS> aquarius: 'radio' is used to refer to the rom that manages the GSM chip. You probably don't need to do anything to it, but if you do then it'll be done automagically by whatever installs whichever rom you pick
  <directhex> aquarius wants to learn "cyanogenmod" but aquarius already knows four moves! forget a move to make room for "cyanogenmod"?
   * aquarius laughs
  <jacobw> haha
  <aquarius> that's exactly how it is. I might end up forgetting how spoons work or something
  <directhex> aquarius forgot "mean look"!
  <BigRedS> basically, installing a new android rom now is like installing a linux distro a few years ago. A tad clunky, but relatively easy and hard to get wrong if you follow the instructions
  <jacobw> it'd be cool if you could choose to forget something like removing service packs in XP in change for easy time learning something else
  <jacobw> s/change/exchange
  <popey> I am trying to forget SAP
  <jacobw> BigRedS: the cyanogen mod forums are full of people who've managed to do it wrong :(
  <BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, because all the people who get it right don't feel the need to post :)
  <BigRedS> I've only bricked a single phone, and that was basically because I was using a dodgy usb extension lead. If you're less complacent than I was (which I guess you'll be) you'll be fine
  <BigRedS> just follow the instructions and don't assume anything
  <jacobw> i need to try miui 2.1.20, i'm currently using cyanogenmod because miui 2.1.6 wouldn't boot for me
  <penguin42> BigRedS: What did you brick?
  <BigRedS> my Galaxy
  <BigRedS> We even made up the special cable to unbrick it, but that didn't work either. I keep meaning to dismanlte it all over ebay
  <penguin42> ouch; must be jtagable
  <ali1234> unity just crashed when minimizing firefox again
  <ali1234> except i'm doing a distro upgrade and it failed to restart
  <jacobw> :(
  <ali1234> so now i can't get to the upgrade window to see if it's finished or needs interaction
  <popey> can you not unity --reset from tty0?
  <ali1234> no, it crashed with segmentation fault
  <popey> nice
  <ali1234> i can probably start a proper window manager though
  <popey> heh
  <ali1234> metacity works
  <ali1234> it's amazing how much faster metacity is than unity
  <directhex> compiz?
  <ali1234> no, compiz is fine
  <ali1234> it's only the unity plugint hat makes it slow
  <ali1234> i mean compiz isn't speedy sure
  <ali1234> but it's not significantly slower than metacity
  <directhex> at least unity's focus badness is really compiz's fault
  <ali1234> focus badness? you mean when you open a new firefox window and type in google and your typing goes to the previous window?
  <ali1234> every single time...
  <directhex> ali1234, yes! that one!
  <ali1234> the worst part is they fixed that once and now it's back
  <directhex> ali1234, compiz cannot handle the idea of window focus. which is a problem for a window manager...
  <ali1234> and i bet nobody even knows what fixed it
  <ali1234> compiz is pretty bad
  <directhex> but it has wobbly windows!
  <ali1234> i only used to use it for ezoom
  <ali1234> but that is now disabled anyway
  <ali1234> i never had focus problems before unity though
  <ali1234> i guess it's time to reopen that focus bug
  <ali1234> well, we'll see if it's fixed in precise first
  <ali1234> assuming this upgrade ever finishes
  <ali1234> and assuming i don't reboot to a black screen because nvidia driver doesn't work
  <aquarius> I note that it's amazing how much faster dos 6.2 is than unity too, because it does less :)
  <ali1234> yeah, but unity doesn't do anything that metacity doesn't do
  <ali1234> actually it does rather less
  <ali1234> a more fair comparison would be unity vs metacity vs windows 3.1
  <aquarius> yes it does. metacity moves windows around and that's it. It doesn't show me what's running; it doesn't let me switch easily between apps with the mouse; it doesn't let me start and switch to a specific app with one keypress; it doesn't show me whether I'm connected to the network; it doesn't let me change my volume with the mouse, etc, etc, etc.
  <ali1234> i dunno if you've ever tried to run windows 3.1 on modern hardware
  <ali1234> well i have, and it doesn't run any faster than it did on a 486
  <ali1234> it's still faster than unity though
  <ali1234> well baring the rather strange design issues where unity is both a window manager and also a panel, unity doesn't do any of that stuff either
  <ali1234> most of it is done by indicators
  <aquarius> Unity is all of those things, though. It's not just a window manager, and that's the point.
  <ali1234> if you are going to include them in unity then i'm going to include panels etc in metacity
  <aquarius> fine, that's not a problem, at which point your argument is that Gnome 2 is faster than Unity, which is a reasonable argument.
  <aquarius> The reason for choosing Unity over Gnome 2 is not about performance.
  <ali1234> essentially you are making the argument that it is OK that unity gets a framerate below 10 FPS on a high end GPU, because it also does a load of stuff that shouldn't even be in a window manager
  <ali1234> so no only is it slow, it;s also badly designed :)
  <ali1234> it's not even about gnome 2
  <ali1234> unity-2d is also significantly faster
  <ali1234> and it does all exactly the same things
  <aquarius> Not at all (although I don't have that problem in the slightest, so I suspect I have better-supported hardware than you). I'm making the argument that Unity isn't a window manager, it's a desktop shell.
  <ali1234> i don't care what it is
  <aquarius> So run Unity Qt; that's what it's for. That seems like a fine idea to me,
  <ali1234> i only care that when i try to move a window, there is a 3 second lag before the screen redraws
  <ali1234> the problem with unity-2d is that multimonitor support is completely broken, otherwise i would use it
  <aquarius> indeed. I can imagine that that's really irritating -- as I say, that doesn't happen to me, because I chose supported hardware. I can also see that it's annoying that you can't have all of (a) Unity's features, (b) multi-monitor support, and (c) support for your hardware, all at once, right now. We're working on it, obviously.
  <ali1234> unfortunately there is no supported hardware that is capable of running the software that i actually want
  <ali1234> i'm assuming that nvidia is not supported
  <aquarius> Yeah. The open-source software world as a whole has that problem, sometimes. Progress is slower than we'd all like.
  <ali1234> i don't really understand why pretty much all software that requires acceleration only works with nvidia binary, except for unity, which only works properly with nouveau
  <ali1234> i can only assume that there is a fundamental design issue with unity that prevents it from hosting applications which also make use of 3d graphics
  <directhex> fglrx works for me :p
  <ali1234> lol
  <ali1234> i take it you don't ever play games in wine
  <ali1234> oh hey the upgrade finished
  <ali1234> well it certainly boots up fast
  <directhex> ali1234, no, i don't play games in wine. native, or reboot to windows
  <ali1234> typical wine/fglrx user "why is the sky pink and i have a white box around the mouse cursor?"
  <ali1234> gaming in wine works flawlessly if you use nvidia - but only if you don't have unity running at the same time - then you get 10 FPS if you are lucky
  <directhex> spacechem works. stick to native games.
  <ali1234> native games are terrible
  <directhex> no, that's FOSS games.
  <gordonjcp> who the hell plays games on PCs anyway?
  <gordonjcp> buy a PS3
  <ali1234> i concur
  <directhex> people who want to play games which are only available on, or better on, PC? or want to play games with mods?
  <ali1234> but don't buy a PS3, but nintendo, the games are better
  <directhex> pfft
  <directhex> the wii is a bundle of fail
  <ali1234> PS3 only has two games
  <ali1234> "generic FPS game" and "generic sword fighting game"
  <directhex> yeah now you';re just being somewhat on the retarded side of retarded
  <brobostigon> atm, my only playing seems to be tuxracer on my tablet, while waiting for doctors and hospital appointments.
  <gordonjcp> ali1234: actually
  <gordonjcp> there are very few FPSes on the PS3
  <gordonjcp> most of the single-person viewpoint 3D shooters are third-person
  <gordonjcp> on account of how the dynamics of playing FPSes with a gamepad is all wack and shit
  <gord> eh
  <gord> there are lots of fps games on the ps3
  <ali1234> all i have to say about that is "goldeneye"
  <gordonjcp> gord: bet there's more third-person shooters
  <directhex> saying "the ps3 is only FPSes" is like saying "the wii is only crappy minigame collection shovelware"
  <directhex> except less accurate
  <ali1234> yeah those 3rd person games where yo "lock" on stuff... it doesn't really matter if you have a gun or a sword, the gameplay mechanic is the same
  <gord> i have a ps3 and i have a wii, i get my wii out once a year for the one single game that comes out for it that is worth playing
  <gord> last year it was zelda, i won't even get it out this year as there are no games coming out for it anymore that are worth your time
  <ali1234> oh i don't disagree that the wii only has 1 good game a year
  <ali1234> but i can't think of a single PS3 game that i would want to play
  <gord> i have about two shelves full of fantastic ps3 games
  <ali1234> and PC only gets a good game every 2 - 3 years as well
  <directhex> http://i.imgur.com/DNUAH.jpg - i speak with experience on gaming.
  <directhex> ali1234 is a bad troll, tbh
  <directhex> a good troll is less obvious
  <ali1234> i;ve owned all of those as well, except for xbox and nes
  <ali1234> xbox 360 that is. had a xbox for a while
  <directhex> modern gaming is fantastic. we've never had it so good. the number of brilliant games per year has only been going up year-on-year in the last decade
  <popey> pffft, european snes
  <gord> the US snes is an eye sore :P
  <gord> the european one is so pretty, japanese one too
  <popey> reminds me of parma violets
  <directhex> popey, i'm european! it was sold with street fighter 2 from Future Zone in oxford!
  <popey> hah
  <popey> i have 3 gamecubes âº
  <popey> two purple, one black
  <directhex> yes i remember, including saving my pocket money for a second pad
  <directhex> we have 2 cubes
  <popey> two n64s
  <directhex> wife and i each have a cube
  <gord> i have like three dreamcasts
  <gord> but only because they break if you look at them the wrong way
  <directhex> gord, there's a fix for the cutting out problem
  <popey> i dont think I've ever seen a dreamcast in the flesh other than in a shop
  <gord> directhex, cutting out? no, the lasers die
  <directhex> gord, just needs a screwdriver
  <gord> really easy
  <directhex> gord, my laser is fine. but i had it randomly rebooting
  <directhex> common enough issue
  <directhex> metal fatigue on the PSU connector pins
  <gord> yeah no its not that, its the drive for me
  <directhex> wish i had a Set5 dev kit instead of a retail console
  <ali1234> mine used to overheat. had to put it on it's side to make it work
  <gord> i may be deemed a "heavy user" of dreamcasts though ;)
  <directhex> my rez disc hasn't needed to come off the shelf since Rez HD hit XBLA
  <popey> do you manually plug stuff in when you need it or have a giant scart-o-tron?
  <directhex> popey, i now only have the current-gen stuff always connected
  <directhex> popey, i can't have everything at once due to power constraints and shared cables
  <popey> gotcha
  <directhex> e.g. the snes and n64 share an av cable; the snes and nes share a power brick
  <directhex> i have decent av cables in a box - component for ps2, rgb scart for cube, etc
  <directhex> xbox has a 160g disk and xbmc, but haven't used that for ages
  <popey> heh, my xbox was decommisioned just last week
  <popey> also xbmc
  <directhex> it's 2012. i demand HD
  <directhex> good job the av receiver upscales the NES!
  <gord> upscaling ruins the nes :P
  <directhex> gord, mostly the problem is getting wii virtual console games to display. my old av receiver couldsn't upscale virtual console games over hdmi
  <gord> virtual console throws the video mode into the same mode the console uses, used to have the same problem with my old tv
  <gord> new tv handles it fine though
  <directhex> the sony handles it. the onkyo did not
  <gord> i got a really nice connector for my megadrive, it outputs over svideo so its a really nice clear crisp signal. i hate it. i want my old co-ax back
  <directhex> RF modulator!
  <ali1234> speaking of TVs
  <gord> one day i'll have a big enough place that i can have a game room and have a dedicated CRT to old consoles, new tv's can't handle them properly
  <directhex> the problem is light guns
  <directhex> my zapper is now a paperweight. boo
  <ali1234> is ubuntu TV going to be a full TV solution, or will it be like existing smart TVs, where it's a mode that you switch to independent of the "watching TV" mode
  <gord> so how do you hunt ducks?!
  <directhex> i don't. boo.
  <gord> the duck population will get out of control!
  <directhex> i should play some more rayman.
  <gord> origins?
  <directhex> yes
  <gord> beat that the other week, tis good
  <directhex> it's exceedingly unoriginal
  <directhex> in the best way
  <directhex> i.e. it's like rayman 1, but prettier and smoother - and less brutal on the lives front
  <gord> they wanted to open source the graphics engine powering it, wonder if they will
  <popey> ali1234: integrated, is the idea
  <directhex> http://www.develop-online.net/news/38204/Ancel-wants-UbiArt-tech-to-be-free-for-all ?
  <popey> so the epg is shown in the UI along with film selection, local video etc
  <ali1234> cool
  <gord> doing the new resident evil on my 3ds at the mo, also good
  <directhex> don't have a 3ds
  <directhex> funny thing - i own 3d games and movies which i put into my ps3, connected to my 3d-capable av receiver, into my 3d tv. and i take 3d photos with my 3d camera. but i skipped the 3ds
  <directhex> mobile gaming has never been a thing for me. i'm the driver, so i get little chance to do "full" 3d games, rather than stolen moments
  <gord> 3ds is easily the best device for 3d atm :)
  <directhex> tbh imho there won't be mobile handhelds after the 3ds and vita. mobile phones have devalued dedicated mobile systems too far
  <directhex> poor sales of both systems suggest i'm not alone
  <gord> actually the 3ds has sold hugely
   * popey googles vita
  <gord> some of us don't want a mobile phone to play games on
  <popey> oh, sony
  <directhex> after they cut the asking price on the 3ds by more than 33% it sold okay
  <directhex> nowhere near expectations, hence nintendo's earnings warning to their shareholders
  <gord> yeah, they misspriced it, but that doesn't mean that mobiles are taking over
  <directhex> the ds was the success it was, thanks to non-game games
  <gord> it actually means that at the right price, people do want a dedicated machine. mobiles frankly suck for gaming
  <directhex> nintendogs
  <directhex> brain age
  <directhex> etc
  <directhex> 3ds needs to compete with smartphone apps for the non-gamer market
  <Myrtti> Professor Layton â¥
  <gord> but it doesn't
  <gord> it has its market
  <Myrtti> I'm a nongamer and I play professor layton â¥
  <directhex> its market is shrinking. that's the point
  <gord> but its not
  <gord> its expanding, hugely
  <directhex> Myrtti,  http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/17/professor-layton-leaves-the-nintendo-stable-to-join-ios/
  <directhex> gord, the earnings warning is imaginary, then?
  <gord> directhex, thats as a result of them not having a console offering really. the wii isn't selling, not the 3ds
  <gord> no one is making games for it and no one is buying games for it
  <Myrtti> directhex: I'm not going to buy an iphone for playing it.
  <gord> frankly the 3ds saved them from a truly disastrous earnings report
  <gord> Myrtti, don't worry, the new layton game for the 3ds should come out in the west this year :) already out in japan iirc
  <directhex> nobody ever bought games for the wii. they branched out into selling wii sports to grandparents, without understanding that grandparents don't want new games, they want wii sports again and again and again FOREVER
  <directhex> "hardcore" wii games have always flopped
  <Myrtti> gord: I know, I keep track on the subject
  <directhex> madworld barely sold
  <gord> prolly know more than me then, i hate layton games ;) - or more aptly. i get stuck on them, decide the puzzle is stupid regardless of everyone else getting past it easily and quit forever
  <ali1234> that couldn't be anything to do with madworld being "generic swordfighting game" released in a sea of identical games, could it?
  <ali1234> i mean if you want games like that, get a PS3
  <directhex> ali1234, yes it's definitely that. wait, it's not a swordfighting game and you don't know a thing about this stuff
  <directhex> same difference
  <ali1234> why does the cover art have a picture of a guy with a sword then?
  <gord> isn't there some saying about not judging a book by its cover?
  <directhex> this is a sword: http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/SH2404-1000.jpg
  <directhex> this is a chainsaw: http://www.a-water-pump.com/images/powertools/husqvarna/HUS_3120xp_lg.jpg
  <directhex> in most cultures, they are considered different implements
  <ali1234> therein lies the problem. you can make an exact clone of a thousand other games and change one tiny detail like "the main character has a chainsaw instead of a sword" and PS3 owners think that represents value for money
  <ali1234> what's thatgame that has a reputation for being hard? the one where you are a ninja?
  <directhex> omg, it has "polygons" on a "screen", it's such a rip-off!
  <directhex> ninja gaiden.
  <ali1234> yeah that's the one
  <ali1234> it's like people who buy the new fifa game every year or how ever often it comes out
  <ali1234> i don't understand why they do it
  <ali1234> i'm now watching random ninja gaiden footage on youtube and there's some enemy with a chainsaw lol
  <ali1234> and apart from the graphic style this is an identical game
  <directhex> because they care about the team roster updates, presumably
  <directhex> i'm not sufficienly interested in the genre to know what other changes are made to the content on an annual basis beyond team refreshes
  <gord> i could go ahead and claim that all romance novels are the same book
  <gord> i'm not going to because i have no knowledge on that subject, its not a genre i enjoy
  <ali1234> i can understand if you want to buy a newer game cos it has better graphics or whatever
  <gord> i'm content to let people who like that genre enjoy that kind of thing without berating them though
  <ali1234> i just can't understand people who buy every driving game, or every FPS game, or every 3rd person beat-em-up game when they are all the same
  <directhex> let's see what came out in 2011...
  <gord> aren't all action movies the same?
  <ali1234> yes, yes they are
  <ali1234> and most of them are terrible
  <gord> so you should watch die hard then no other action movie ever?
  <ali1234> just made because they know that people will go to watch them because "i like action movies"
  <ali1234> you can watch all the die hard movies, but you should probably skip anything made by the asylum
  <gord> i do like action movies, i will go see them too, because i like things that i know i like
  <directhex> duke nukem forever was 2011!
  <gord> i like chocolate, i buy that like, every week, man what is wrong with me
  <gord> same thing again and again
  <ali1234> oh yeah
  <ali1234> wasn't DNF panned for being a generic FPS game?
  <directhex> i was kidding. and nuke nukem forever was panned for far more than that
  <ali1234> saints row 2 was quite popular i heard
  <directhex> SR3 WAS OUT LAST YEAR
  <directhex> BAh
  <directhex> er, sr2 was a couple of years ago
  <ali1234> oh 3 then :)
  <directhex> they're clearly rip-offs of the GTA3 concept, but with their own stylistic and thematic take on the genre
  <ali1234> there's generally quite a big gap between GTA games
  <directhex> nah, they're all just gta3 with a new skin
  <ali1234> no i mean time wise
  <ali1234> i mean how old is 4 now?
  <gord> eh not really big gaps between them
  <directhex> 4? about 3 years. i'd need to check
  <gord> its just been a few years since 4
  <directhex> 29 April 2008
  <directhex> but the gta games have all been identical since gta3. not a single important element changed, therefore they're the same game with a different skin. yup.
  <ali1234> indeed
  <directhex> gta4 is equally fun to vice city.
  <gord> untrue
  <gord> vice city has 80s music
  <ali1234> vice city is my favorite because of that :)
  <directhex> gord, and tommy vercetti doesn't handle like a walrus
  <directhex> gta4's table tennis engine can't have helped
  <gord> i actually don't like any gta games apart from 1 and vice city, your references are lost on me ;)
  <ali1234> i can understand if you want to get some new content in the same game after 3 years though
  <gord> and in vice city i was just driving around to the 80s music really
  <directhex> gta4 uses the "RAGE" engine (not to be confused with the id Tech 5 engine, used in the game "RAGE"). RAGE is the engine for rockstar table tennis
  <ali1234> GTA has very high replay value though, i guess that's why there's relatively few clones of it despite the big gaps
  <directhex> there are loads of gta clones
  <directhex> god what a flooded genre it is
  <directhex> saint's row is probably the best, but there were dozens during the xbox/ps2 era
  <directhex> they even started taking established franchises and turning them into "open world" gta clones. say, red faction guerilla
  <ali1234> there's a lot of open world games now but it's not quite the same thing
  <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_clone
  <directhex> sure they are. drive around in other peoples' vehicles, killing bystanders
  <ali1234> i mean you could say stalker or fallout or oblivion are "GTA clones" but they aren't really
  <ali1234> they just have an open world
  <directhex> sometimes it's a horse or sometimes it's a car, or sometimes it's a fighter jet
  <directhex> but just cause is gta on a tropical island. saint's row 3 is gta with dildo bats and burt reynolds.
  <gord> if you want to get in to it, gta is ripping off TES :P
  <ali1234> or assassin's creed, that has an open world too
  <ali1234> the first one was basically GTA without cars
  <directhex> parkour game? clearly a mirror's edge ripoff
  <ali1234> mirrors edge is first person
  <ali1234> so that's a FPS without guns :)
  <directhex> technically...
  <directhex> you need to shoot at least one bullet to complete mirror's edge
  <ali1234> ok, very few guns then :)
  <directhex> you can take guns from the people you fight
  <directhex> there's an achievement for causing no bullet damage in a complete playthrough though
  <directhex> looks like i have about 28 ps3 games, and 42 xbox games
  <ali1234> so which is better, CoD or BF?
  <directhex> and on steam..... three hundred and fifty two
  <directhex> ali1234, no idea. i have no interest in "realistic" shooters like battlefield or call of duty
  <ali1234> can you at least understand why i would not consider buying BOTH of them?
  <gord> most people don't buy both of them
  <ali1234> i'm not even sure if they are on the same systems
  <directhex> ali1234, sure. but the way you've been talking this evening implies you'd also discount a hundred other games for being too similar, from borderlands to zeno clash
  <directhex> ali1234, both are multiplatform
  <ali1234> i wouldn't buy more than one such game every couple of years
  <ali1234> so i'd get which ever one i thought had most replay value
  <directhex> http://steamcommunity.com/id/directhex/games?tab=all
  <ali1234> i've heard CoD is extremely linear so it probably wouldn't be that one
  <directhex> CoD and Battlefield both have pretty lame singleplayer, afaik. they're bought only for multiplayer
  <ali1234> hmm can you get aggregate stats for games? how long people play them for on average?
  <directhex> depends on the game.
  <ali1234> "steam games"
  <directhex> general case: no
  <ali1234> they should have a top 10 for that or something
  <directhex> oh, top 10 you can do
  <directhex> except when steam falls over
  <directhex> like right now
  <ali1234> i can see top 10 most played
  <ali1234> but i mean, top 10 most replayed :)
  <ali1234> good to see civilization in the top
  <directhex> i'm still not convinced about civ5 versus civ4
  <directhex> they made some MAJOR ruleset changes
  <ali1234> i haven't played it since 2
  <directhex> civ4 is excellent, especially with the beyond the sword expansion
  <directhex> which plugs various holes in the long-game gameplay
  <ali1234> it can't have changed that much though right? i mean they haven't made it into a FPS yet right?
  <directhex> e.g. it institutes corporations as a late-game replacement for religion. and the apostolic palace as early-game united nations
  <directhex> ali1234, you know the next x-com and syndicate games are fps, right?
  <ali1234> yes of course :)
  <ali1234> they already made a couple of xcom FPS games
  <directhex> ali1234, no army stacking in civ5. and hex-based map
  <ali1234> yay hexes
  <ali1234> presumaby you can still stack armies in cities though?
  <directhex> nope.
  <ali1234> awesome
  <directhex> also, merged attack & defense score on units
  <ali1234> it always annoyed me when the computer had like 50 phalanx in the city and they somehow wear down your bomber
  <ali1234> despite being armed with only spears
  <directhex> cities get their own attack rating, with or without a garrison, which they can use to defend
  <directhex> e.g. walls increase the city's attack rating
  <directhex> you can attck any unit within 2 hexes in any direction
  <directhex> obviously a garrison bumps your city's attack score
  <gord> next xcom game is actually a strategy game
  <gord> the fps got bumped to next year because it was obvious everyone hated it
  <ali1234> hehe
  <directhex> oh, they also added city states to civ5
  <gord> they won't be able to rebottle the lightning of the first though. the only turn based strategy game i have ever played that was legitimately  scary
  <directhex> single-city neutral players. making them allied gives you a per-state bonus
  <directhex> sometimes the city states will give you mini-quests, like "nuke another city state plz"
  <directhex> generally though, i still feel civ4:bts is a better experience. largely because they totally screwed diplomacy in 5
  <directhex> and the theme song for 4 is far superior
  <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
  <directhex> hated civ3 and civ:ctp
  <ali1234> what ever happened to combat flight sims?
  <directhex> alpha centauri was good
  <directhex> ali1234, i think il2 sturmovic is the main franchise still going in that genre
  <mgdm> Alpha Centauri was the last game I sank a decent amount of time into
  <mgdm> since then I don't have the attention span for anything more than Angry Birds
  <directhex> http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/sid_meiers_alpha_centauri
  <gord> flight simulators don't get made anymore
  <directhex> microsoft have a new one out soon.
  <gord> yeah, but no
  <gord> it just looks like their last one, refitted into the free to play model
  <directhex> so?
  <gord> so its not really a new game
  <directhex> the last il2 game was in 2011
  <directhex> which is pretty recent
  <directhex> general case though, games are expensive to make and flight sims are a tiny market
  <ali1234> yet "ship simulator: extreme" gets made
  <shauno> x-plane had a major release fairly recently.  they're still ou tthere
  <gordonjcp> railsim
  <gordonjcp> that just...
  <directhex> ali1234, that's eastern-european shovelware though
  <ali1234> yeah like 50% of the games in simulation category are train simulators or add ons
  <directhex> railworks is Â£1000 of serious business.
  <gordonjcp> I know a guy who develops scenarios for rail simulators
  <directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/ - all the dlc for railworks 3 is Â£1048.12
  <gordonjcp> he knows an awful lot about trains, and timetables, and railway routes
  <directhex> oh, there's a new train simulator in debian now. i know about it because it's mono-based :p
  <ali1234> i guess train simulator kind of makes sense, if you are controlling multiple trains and signals and stuff
  <ali1234> if it was just "train driver simulator" that would be awful
  <directhex> ali1234, it is.
  <directhex> ali1234, that's railworks, the one with a grand of dlc
  <ali1234> you just control... how fast the train goes?
  <directhex> ali1234, there's even a zombie DLC for it. let me find the video
  <ali1234> the one train...
  <ali1234> LOL
  <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5QggbEWtGQ
  <ali1234> i mean if it was like amodel railway type thing where you build the track and control multiple trains... like roller coaster tycoon... *that* would be good
  <directhex> ali1234, i'm not aware of one after Sid Meier's Railroads
  <shauno> that's basically how I treat openttd
  <directhex> http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/videogames/detail-page/railroads-100206-3-lg.jpg
  <directhex> http://0.tqn.com/d/compsimgames/1/0/3/x/1/SMR0071.jpg
  <directhex> it's fun
  <directhex> a bit crashy though
  <directhex> also, it's a pc game. remember the "who would play a pc game?" thing?
  <ali1234> sure. it depends what you want from a game though
  <directhex> fun?
  <ali1234> yeah but that's like saying you want a car with 4 wheels and an engine
  <directhex> clearly there's only one correct choice of car, everyone else is wrong
  <ali1234> there are multiple correct choices for different people
  <directhex> see? you've come so far in only an hour.
  <ali1234> however there are also choices that are incorrect for everyone
  <ali1234> then there are people who buy 5 sports cars
  <ali1234> (or more)
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <popey> yo
  <AlanBell> bon soir
  <BigRedS> Good morning
  <czajkowski> just back :)
  <popey> good food?
  <czajkowski> yup not bad, I didnt eat the snails!
  <popey> haha
  <popey> wuss
  <czajkowski> not a hope in hell!
  <popey> they dont actually taste of anything. it's the garlic butter / breadcrumbs / whatever that you taste
  <mgdm> +1
  <popey> still yummy âº
  <czajkowski> so someone tried to tell me today while trying to force feed a snail into me
  <popey> haha
  <popey> so we cant all be wrong
  <czajkowski> I do beg to differ ;)
  <gordonjcp> they're a bit like whelks
  <popey> ... or are we just colluding to get you to eat the disgusting slimy filth?
  <popey> its funny there's not much I won't eat
  <czajkowski> I'm going with the latter
  <czajkowski> popey: same with him
  <czajkowski> very odd
  <popey> jelly makes me feel a bit sick
  <popey> jelly you get with eels that is, not lime jelly
  <AlanBell> I am not keen on raw tomatoes but that is about it
  <popey> eaten or thrown?
   * popey makes notes for oggcamp 12
   * AlanBell is delighted to see the oggcamp 12 announcment
   * mgdm will attempt to make it to an oggcamp this year
  <gordonjcp> \o/
  * AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | "* popey makes notes for oggcamp 12"
   * mgdm wonders if lobbing petrol money at gordonjcp might result in transport :P
  <gordonjcp> mgdm: yeah, of course
  <mgdm> gordonjcp: the reverse would work too, I have a car :)
  <gordonjcp> yup
  <popey> uhm
  <BigRedS> AlanBell: Ah, so no binary numbering scheme?
  <AlanBell> BigRedS: it wasn't me that just announced it ;)
  <popey> Oh hi all. Looks like Sophie has been at my computer for the last 5 minutes
  <AlanBell> lulz
  <mgdm>  :D
  <BigRedS> ah, I can't see/find the announcement anyway; is it just what's in the topic?
  <AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah
  <gordonjcp> well
  <gordonjcp> he's said it now
  <gordonjcp> mgdm and I have booked transport
  <gordonjcp> better make it happen
  <BigRedS> haha
   * AlanBell heads off to bed before causing more trouble
  <ali1234> after upgrading i no longer have java, is that normal?
  <shauno> I believe that's intentional; to do with oracle expiring the license for their jre I believe
  <directhex> yep
  <directhex> oracle java cannot be distributed except on oracle's website
  <directhex> because oracle
  <hamitron> suck
  <ali1234> but i was using openjdk
  <ali1234> i still have openjdk 6 policy tool installed
  <ali1234> and openjdk 7 policy tool
  <ali1234> it doesn't work though
  <ali1234> "openjdk-6-jre-headless is already the newest version."
  <ali1234> the focus bug is still here too
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-21
  <Laney> what happened?
  <dwatkins> snow
  <knightwise> Hey everyone
  <Laney> AHA!
  <MartijnVdS> Lots of snow happened here
  <knightwise> And an earthquake MartijnVdS
   * knightwise spent 3 hours on his commute to work
  <dwatkins> my brother got part-way to work then turned around and is now working from home
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: That earthquake was in a different country :P
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS Limburg is still part of the netherlands :) right ?
   * MartijnVdS didn't even try going to work... trains are always (snow-)flaky
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: We don't call people who live there "reserve-belgen" for nothing :P
  <knightwise> Lol MartijnVdS , I thought Brabanders were 'reserve belgen'
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: "belg" = "ben eerst limburger geweest"
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: :) What does that make me ?
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: weird
  <knightwise> I hardly still fit the description of 'a belgian' :p
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: you don't keep a knife at work, to cut corners?
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: (yay belgenmoppen)
  <directhex> working from home means no snow days :'(
  <MartijnVdS> directhex: you could work nights..
  <MartijnVdS> directhex: and build snowmen during the day
  <directhex> i mean snow day as in "can't get to work, sorry, i still get paid though right?"
  <MartijnVdS> directhex: yeah :)
  <directhex> don't wanna go *outside*
  <MartijnVdS> I need to refill the wiper fluid in my car :(
  <MartijnVdS> worst timing EVER
  <knightwise> define 'cannot get to work'
  <knightwise> i mean , you can always WALK to work
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: i have been surfing in stray spraywater from drivers in front of me to clean my windshield :)
  <directhex> my office is 85 miles from my home
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: if walking to work and back takes so long you won't be able to work a full day, that's "cannot get to work" :)
  <knightwise> directhex: you are excused
  <knightwise> Ah crud
  <knightwise> looks like i'm getting a laptop from work :(
  <knightwise> Probably some 25 pound 15 inch behemoth
  <knightwise> runnig XP
  <directhex> yay!
  <directhex> i have a work laptop too
  <directhex> lenovo x230 with ubuntu
  <directhex> standard company offering.... i wrote the standard :D
  <directhex> it's good to be king
  <knightwise> directhex: i hate you
   * knightwise uses 12.10 on his macbook air (11.6 inch) with a citrix client
  <dogmatic69> anyone want to guess where my server is? http://i.imgur.com/A3K2NTd.jpg
  <directhex> under the snow?
  <dogmatic69> directhex: the only building with no snow on the roof :D
  <knightwise> Dude ,thats poorly isolated then
  <popey> morning
  <MartijnVdS> \o popey
  <knightwise> hey popey
  <dogmatic69> knightwise: isolated? or insulated
  <knightwise> erm ... insulated
   * knightwise is not a native speaker
  <dogmatic69> ye, there is no insulation there
  <MartijnVdS> This is what the world looks like for me: http://i.imgur.com/xqe1PrS.jpg
  <Laney> idyllic
   * Laney coughs
  <directhex> little boxes
  <directhex> on a hillside
  <MartijnVdS> directhex: hillside?!
  <popey> they dream of hills
  <MartijnVdS> this is polder country! :)
  <knightwise> Dutch don't have hills.
  <knightwise> 80  percent of their country is below sealevel
  <knightwise> its like God tried to tell them something there...
  <dwatkins> or perhaps just that they're going against the flow...
  <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/01/belgium_suspends_fyra_high-spe.php
  <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: proof ;)
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: LOL :) God .. that train is a disaster !
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: .. I have a Fyra ticket to go to FOSDEM in 2 weeks
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: good thing the return journey is by Thalys
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: I'm still waiting for word back from canonical if they are going to bring one of those Ubuntu phones to Fossdem
  <knightwise> If so : i'm going too
  <popey> i thought I answered that for you?
  <knightwise> popey: I called the secretary ( Michelle Surtees) who was going to make some extra inquiry
  <knightwise> (it never hurts to try)
   * directhex is skipping fosdem this year
  <popey> hahaha
  <popey> Can I just point out that Michelle isn't my (or anyone's) secretary, before I get a punch in the nuts from her.
  <knightwise> oops .. sorry ! :)
  <michelle_> popey: lol thank you :)
  <popey> âº
  <knightwise> Oh Crud !
  <knightwise> Michelle ?
  <michelle_> knightwise: heh apology accepted :)
  <michelle_> hi
  <popey> tee hee
  <knightwise> I've NEVER blushed on IRC before ..
  <knightwise> But .. now I do ! :p))
  <michelle_> knightwise: lol
  <Azelphur> popey: Cube reflection and deformation, Wallpaper, Extra animations, Color filter, Cube gears, Reflection, etc...
  <Azelphur> just to reply to yesterdays question :P
  <popey> some of that was disabled as we migrated to GLES for ARM
  <popey> if I recall correctly
  <Azelphur> think so, yea
  <Azelphur> the API has been changed too so you can't build/install the plugins yourself
  <Azelphur> :<
  <Azelphur> I'll probably uninstall Ubuntu's compiz and jump onto stable
  <popey> stable meaning 0.8?
  <Azelphur> yea
  <popey> interesting
  <Azelphur> 0.9 has always been a bit dodgy, but there again it has always been Ubuntu added bugs apparently
  <Azelphur> like the cube flickering bug in 12.04 XD
  <Laney> did you check the 'compiz-plugins' package
  <Azelphur> Laney: yea, there's bug reports up and stuff for it
  <Laney> hmm
  <Azelphur> https://answers.launchpad.net/compiz/+question/206524
  <Laney> +  In order to complete support for OpenGL|ES, some plugins were not (yet)
  <Laney> +  ported and have been disabled for now. Those are: animationaddon, bicubic,
  <Laney> +  blur, colorfilter, cubeaddon, gears, group, loginout, reflex, thumbnail,
  <Laney> +  stackswitch, wallpaper, trip. However, those are only 13 out of 84 plugins.
  <Laney> +  We welcome patches to revive the disabled plugins.
  <popey> ok, so not the ones Azelphur listed
  <Azelphur> indeed :P
  <popey> oh, some
  <Azelphur> uhh, yes the ones I listed?
  <Azelphur> xD
  <Azelphur> Cube reflection and deformation = cubeaddon
  <Azelphur> Extra animations = animationaddon
  <Azelphur> I'm not too grumpy about most of them, but wallpaper I make heavy use of, and not having cubeaddon / extra animations is annoying aesthetically :P
  <popey> you can probably just enable them and rebuild?
  <popey> given you're not on ARM
  <Azelphur> nah as I say, API changes stop them from being built
  <popey> oh, because they weren't maintained..
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <Azelphur> in Ubuntus fork of compiz that introduces API changes, sure I guess :p
  <Azelphur> they are fine in mainline afaik
  <popey> what desktop would you use with compiz 0.8?
  <Laney> you could look at what work is needed to fix them in lp:compiz :-)
  <Azelphur> popey: I run Xubuntu now days
  <Azelphur> Last I checked Unity falls over on separate X screens, but I havn't checked it for 6 months or so
  <Azelphur> I use Unity on my laptop though
  <AlanBell> Laney: is the upshot of bug 954352 that we will get a working wayland in Raring?
  <lubotu3> bug 954352 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Raring) "Enable wayland backend" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954352
  <Azelphur> that would be cool :o
  <kvarley> Is there a good resource that will explain simply why Wayland is better than X11?
  <kvarley> Or why Wayland will be replacing X11 in the end
  <AlanBell> doesn't mean it will be used by default, just that GTK will be compiled to be compatible with it
  <Laney> if it all pans out you'll be able to use the gdk backend
  <Azelphur> kvarley: X11 has a lot of cruft, it's rapidly approaching it's 30th birthday. It was designed in an era where 3d accelerated graphics cards didn't exist and everybody used monochrome displays. Wayland has native compositing, tear free, and lots of other very nice features.
  <Laney> someone else is taking care of the bureaucratic task
  <kvarley> Azelphur: So in the end most distros will use Wayland?
  <Azelphur> kvarley: hopefully, but I think that's a few years off yet.
  <directhex> we have devs working on wayland.
  <Azelphur> I can't wait for wayland, so many fixes for things that affect me
  <directhex> kittin! https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385174_10151399893826438_447384511_n.jpg
  <MartijnVdS> awww
  <Azelphur> cute :p
  <popey> awww
  <Laney> Couriered sachet of pepper
  <Laney> Thanks, Prime. Thime.
  <davmor2> Laney: Surely you mean prime thyme :P
  <popey> \o/ Look Around You!
  <Laney> http://www.thanksants.com/
  <popey> \o/ VT52
  <MartijnVdS> does it do unicode?
  <popey> no
  <popey> http://www.thanksants.com/%C5%82o%C5%82
  <brobostigon> whats a good simple program, i can use, to pickup pictures from a webcam connected to my rpi ?
  <popey> webcam
  <brobostigon> ok, good name, :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: look for programs that do "v4l" (or v4l2) -- those should be able to do it
  <MartijnVdS> vlc can stream video :)
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point yes. as that is aplication interface.
  <popey> i want to re-stream my home webcam using vlc, couldn't quite get it working
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there's a no-x version of vlc
  <popey> cvlc
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: now that would be useful.
  <brobostigon> let me look up both.
  <popey> i tried using cvlc but it actually spat the video out to the console, aalib style
  <brobostigon> interesting.
  <dwatkins> I assume that's not its aim
  <MartijnVdS> http://www.videolan.org/doc/streaming-howto/en/
  <MartijnVdS> that's old docs
  <MartijnVdS> http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Streaming_HowTo_New is newer
  <brobostigon> isnt vlc rather large a package ?
  <czajkowski> http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/   BigRedS if you're back in London
  <davmor2> popey: xeoma maybe? It's in USC don't know how much :)
  <brobostigon> i do a search on ubuntu and webcam, and what is the first result, popey.com
  <brobostigon> as it says on popey's blog, how do i setup apache, to pickup pictures scp'd into said users home dir ?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: a2enmod userdir
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: then put the files in ~/public_html/
  <MartijnVdS> (or some directory below that)
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so that will then outwardly look like taylorworld.me.uk/user/etc ?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: /~username/etc.
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, let me try that, thank you.
  <mungbean> unsure whether to use nouveau or nvidia drivers for fastest desktop experience - have always used nvidia but wondering if nouveau is sufficient for desktop?
  <gord> try it and find out?
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that worked, thank you.
  <mungbean> gord: am trying it, but changed too many variables :(
  <mungbean> today is the first day i am using elementary OS on a full time basis on my work PC, rather than normal ubuntu
  <mungbean> its flippin' fast
  <brobostigon> question, webcam is working, but it is repeatingly asking me for my ssh pasword, which it shouldnt, as i have it specified in webcams config file. any ideas?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: set up a special account + ssh key + scp-only access ?
  <popey> bug 1075539
  <lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1075539 could not be found
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: umm, ok.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ssh with a password-less key is great, except it allows access to all the things, as you
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hence the "separate account" suggestion
  <MartijnVdS> you could probably limit the key on your normal account as well.. let me find something
  <MartijnVdS> http://michaelahale.com/blog/2008/08/01/restrict-an-ssh-user-to-scp-only-access/
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: more infoz on authorized-keys: http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/help/jpmg/ssh/authorized_keys_howto.html
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see, yes, interesting, thank you.
  <brobostigon> this will be new, also i have not tried with ssh keys alot before.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you have 2 machines to try it on, go for it :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's a very useful thing to know when sysadmining
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: certainly, i can imagine, i have just been reading about them, :)
  <kvarley> Anybody know of a packaged version of Ambiance for XFCE 4.10 (running on XUbuntu) ?
  <kvarley> The one I use normally hasn't been updated for 12.10 yet
  <brobostigon> weird, i have setup ssh keys for that webcam user, and it is still asking for the key passphrase on every upload.
  <kvarley> brobostigon: ssh-add ?
  <mgdm> are the permissions on the various key files correct?
  <mgdm> That always gets me, I set them to 600
  <brobostigon> kvarley: done,
  <brobostigon> kvarley: let me check that, server end?
  <mgdm> both ends, but yeah, .ssh/authorized_keys is often the one that's not quite right
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <knightwise> hey brobostigon mgdm !
  <brobostigon> hey knightwise
  <mgdm> Hi knightwise
  <mungbean> guys, i'm used to selinux and tweaking the permissions, how do i do apparmor? dmesg is full of messages from telepathy etc
  <popey> mungbean: what kinds of messages?
  <mungbean> popey: [ 8470.322930] type=1400 audit(1358776859.354:167): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mknod" parent=1 profile="/usr/lib/telepathy/mission-control-5" name="XXXX/.mission-control/accounts/gabble/jabber/XXXXXXX" pid=19292 comm="mission-control" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=1000 ouid=1000
  <popey> bug 819321 perhaps?
  <lubotu3> bug 819321 in telepathy-mission-control-5 (Ubuntu) "apparmor profile for telepathy need c-mask." [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819321
  <mungbean> my home dir is /data/home rather than /home...might be related
  <popey> should give you an idea of what to fiddle
  <mungbean> chars
  <popey> np
  <mungbean> "Although this bug is fixed, the same symptoms appear when using the default apparmor configuration if user accounts are not stored in /home"
  <mungbean> should fix my home dir prob :P
  <brobostigon> ok, i have added ssh public key, to authorized_keys on both end, and webcam is still asking for my password for is_rsa everytime it tries to upload still.
  <dwatkins> brobostigon: on a new shell can you ssh without the need for a passwd nor passphrase?
  <brobostigon> dwatkins: let me try.
  <popey> you probably want to run "ssh-agent screen" then in the screen run "ssh-add" to add your key then run "webcam"
  <popey> (that's what i do)
  <brobostigon> on the server end ?
  <brobostigon> woop, thank you popey :)
  <dwatkins> Linux saves an otherwise disastrous day.
  <MartijnVdS> \o/ agent
  <mungbean> which package to remove to get rid of overlay scrollbars?
  <mungbean> ii  liboverlay-scrollbar-0.2-0             0.2.16-0ubuntu1.1                         Scrollbar overlayed widget - shared lib
  <mungbean> ii  liboverlay-scrollbar3-0.2-0            0.2.16-0ubuntu1.1                         Scrollbar overlayed widget - shared lib
  <mungbean> ii  overlay-scrollbar                      0.2.16-0ubuntu1.1                         Scrollbar overlayed widget
  <directhex> mungbean, all three
  <directhex> mungbean, the bottom one is a metapackage to pull in the first 2. one of those is gtk2 one is gtk3
  <brobostigon> in webcam config, what is a good trigger value,?
  <directhex> 73!
  <brobostigon> on what basis ?
  <popey> twelvety!
  <Seeker`> 6
  <popey> depends how much your background changes
  <Seeker`> what are we talking about?
  <popey> I fiddled with the number until it wasn't trying to upload every second image
  <brobostigon> it will change very litle.
  <popey> mine is set to 100
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <mungbean> anyone recommend a gmail app that sits in the tray?
  <mungbean> used to use checkgmail but not working in this DE?
  <directhex> the tray doesn't work properly in ubuntu, by order of the design team
  <directhex> unless you change a dconf value
  <mungbean> directhex: i'm on gala
  <mungbean> don't think its a whitelist problem
  <davmor2> mungbean: might still be double check it
  <davmor2> mungbean: what version of ubuntu are you on?
  <mungbean> elementary uses 12.04
  <mungbean> only unity has whitelists afaik
  <davmor2> mungbean: it might be a generic setting though.
  <mungbean> owncloud, snyapse etc work ootb though
  <davmor2> mungbean: owncloud is a kde project so will use the libnotify project, pass on synapse
  <mungbean> aha, i get ya davmor2
  <AwAk3e> This morning I woke up to this error - "Reboot and Select proper boot device" on my ubuntu installation. I've checked to see that the BIOS detects the hard drive and it does, I also went through the installation process again and it detected the hard drive there, however when I use fdisk and having booted from a bootable disc, it can't find the drive. Does anyone know how to resolve this?
  <davmor2> mungbean: indicator not libnotify sorry
  <davmor2> but you get the idea
  <directhex> fsvo "work"
  <directhex> i've had to give up on deploying owncloud
  <solarcloud_AFK> freedomrun, http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/309887
  <bigcalm> mgdm: any good with pack()? :)
  <mgdm> bigcalm: nein
  <bigcalm> \o/
  <meet> how safe is the janitor utility in ubuntu tweak
  <popey> never used it
  <popey> what does it claim to do
  <gord> iirc it mainly just cleans up old kernels
  <popey> the old computer janitor did.. but also removed some needed stuff, dunno how much more clever tweak is
  <gord> ooh in tweak, oh no i have no idea
  <gord> i stay away from anything that calls itself words like tweak
   * popey makes an app called Gord Tweak
  <meet> :)
   * Laney tweaks popey's nipples
   * Laney titters and skips off
   * popey writes a cheque to Laney 
  <davmor2> popey: you have to pay Laney to do that?  Just insult czajkowski she'll hurt you for free :)
  <solarcloud_3scrn> davmor2: http://bcove.me/3n7wxb64 foward to t=1m:30s  .. "she knew what to expect, really."
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Choke anyone ?? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/did-you-notice-were-back
  <BigRedS> I need to make a few packages that will each consist of a shell script to dump in /usr/sbin and a config file in /etc. What's the current least-excessive-faff way of doing that?
  <brobostigon> interesting, i just did a quickie calculation, of webcam recording for 30mins, and then scaling it up to 24hrs, it would make roughly 120mb of images and 14448 images. which seems like an awful lot.
  <dwatkins> I do wonder how youtube manages those "10 hours of nyan cat" videos
  <daftykins> brobostigon: what purpose is that for? security cam style?
  <dwatkins> does someone upload a 20 minute video that's just repeated 30 times?
  <brobostigon> daftykins: kinda, yes.
  <brobostigon> daftykins: i am using xawtv webcam program, as popey suggested earlier.
  <daftykins> brobostigon: an electrician i had do a job told me about these ones he put up nearby, motion activated with custom sounds and SD card for storage :>
  <brobostigon> daftykins: ok.
  <daftykins> so he put a recording of himself whispering on it, as naturally you look up toward that
  <daftykins> if you could put motion detection in, so it only records then, that'd be neat
  <brobostigon> daftykins: i do believe it does that already.
  <daftykins> should solve the storage element then
  <brobostigon> as far as i can tell, in my 30min sample. there was only movement in it, for around 15secs, as i walked past it.
  <daftykins> and it still came to 120MB ?
  <daftykins> oh it's taking stills?
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <brobostigon> daftykins: i calculated that 30 min sample up to 24hrs, and that 120mb is for 24hrs.
  <daftykins> oh my bad
  <brobostigon> no worries.
  <popey> brobostigon: less if you turn it into a video
  <popey> which is fun to do
  <brobostigon> so ffmpeg them together?
  <ali1234> 120mb for 30 minutes of video? that's tiny
  <brobostigon> no, 120mb, for 24hrs of images, calculated up, from 30mins of images.
  <dwatkins> extrapolated?
  <brobostigon> dwatkins: yes.
  <dwatkins> just checking, not actually repeated
  <brobostigon> (120mb / 24) / 2
  <ali1234> so in 30 minutes it took 2.5mb of images?
  <brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
  <ali1234> that's like 1 per minute 320x240 jpeg
  <brobostigon> resolution yes, thats correct, but it is set to 50% jpeg quality.
  <dwatkins> if that's converted into a video, that should use less space
  <brobostigon> or i just put a bigger sd card into the rpi.
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: You're gonna need a bigger boat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gciFoEbOA8
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: huh ?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: bigger card.. bigger boat.. jaws
  <dwatkins> could you upload them periodically, then free up space?
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, :)
  <brobostigon> dwatkins: cron job, logrotate, could work.
  <MartijnVdS> mount a remote directory
  <MartijnVdS> put them there directly ;)
  <MartijnVdS> you'll have as much space as you put in the remote machine
  <brobostigon> good thinking batman
  <MartijnVdS> sshfs, cifs, nfs
  <brobostigon> libv4l2: error dequeuing buf: Input/output error
  <brobostigon> v4l2: read: Input/output error
  <brobostigon> weird error.
   * bigcalm grumbles at mysql server. Won't start on my bytemark server. 12.04.1 on it and my local dev machine but the dev machine works
  <bigcalm> Copied the dev conf over to the bytemark machine and still doesn't work
  <bigcalm> Anybody with thoughts? :)
  <daftykins> logs?
  <bigcalm> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1556679/
  <daftykins> wow that's not very descript
  <bigcalm> I quite agree
  <daftykins> aren't there mysql specific logs in a subfolder beneath /var/log ?
  <bigcalm> Nothing in the mysql error log
  <daftykins> ah :( i don't really have any experience sadly
  <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1556687/
  <daftykins> cannot allocate memory
  <daftykins> hrmm
  <bigcalm> Getting close to restarting the server
  <bigcalm> How does one clear the apt-cache?
  <daftykins> sudo apt-get clean
  <bigcalm> Ta
  <daftykins> ^_^
  <daftykins> worth running the db daemon on your test box where it works, checking if that buffer size is 128MB there too?
  <daftykins> to see how it compares
  <daftykins> gotta head off now though, gl!
  <bigcalm> rebooting worked :(
  <technux> anyone here?
  <AlanBell> technux: yes
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-22
  <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgrt7XZ-BQw
  <solarcloud_AFK> Morning .. http://bit.ly/UOeHDh
  <knightwise> morning
  <andylockran> hey all
  <andylockran> anyone here run a company that can give me some Joomla support - 3 days per month?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Almost certainly Andy
  <TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: ^^
  <andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: can I have a contact nunmer Alan?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> sure: Office: 0844 3576000.
  <andylockran> You in the office now?
  <solarcloud_3scrn> andylockran: You tried Yopla ?
  <solarcloud_3scrn> scrub that... soz
  <andylockran> reading through the man page of automysqlbackup - any suggestions to have it mysqldump from mulitple mysql instances?
  <andylockran> in ubuntu, it seems you're only allowed to use /etc/default/automysqlbackup as the config
  <andylockran> whereas I have multiple configs in /etc/automysqlbackup/$host.config that I'd like to use.
  <diplo> I've always wrote my own andylockran, can take a look if you like ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: I've hacked the automysqlbackup to do what I need. It's only bash ;-)
  <diplo> I have a very simple shell script that connects and dumps from each of our customers web hosts
  <andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, I should hack it up.
  <popey> morning
  <timp> s
  <knightwise> s!
  <iahmad> Hi David
   * popey tickles GingerDog 
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
  <knightwise> hey JamesTait
  <JamesTait> knightwise, o/
  <knightwise> hey michelle_ !
  <DJones> Would anybody recommend an online radio app for ubuntu, ideally I'd like one that will let me add internet radio stations and have buttons for presets for favourite stations
  <knightwise> I use spotify to be honest
  <knightwise> not bad actually
  <knightwise> but thats not what you are lookin for i'm afraid
  <mungbean> online app? or app for online radio?
  <DJones> app for online radio, i want things like radio 4 & various local radios as presets
  <mungbean> don't they all do it? banshee, amarok etc
  <mungbean> i used to listen to internet radio on amarok
  <knightwise> mungbean: indeed.
  <DJones> I didn't even consider those
  <knightwise> DJones: If you have a mobile device I would give Stitcher a go.
  <mungbean> clementine is my preferred audio player app over the last couple of years
  <DJones> +1 for clementine
  <DJones> Although I thought it just did lastfm streaming for radio
  <DJones> Just having a look at Radio Tray
  <mungbean> http://radiotray.sourceforge.net/
  <mungbean> yeah lol
  <mungbean> just foound it
  <popey> i use tune in radio on ios and android for radio stuff
  <popey> it's a really great radio app
  <popey> it's my alarm clock too, it can wake up to the radio (any stream you like) and also record shows
  <directhex> i wonder whether WP8's hardware certification requires an FM radio the way WP7 did, for no good reason
  <DJones> I use that on android, just hoping I can find a decent desktop app
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <knightwise> Â²hey brobostigon
  <knightwise> you're up late :p
  <knightwise> its allmost noon
  <brobostigon> hey knightwise
  <brobostigon> knightwise: remeber, you are an hour ahead of us. :)
  <knightwise> ah yes :) I always tend to forget that one over here
  <brobostigon> :)
  <dwatkins> remember folks, if you're going to cycle to work along the canal in the snow, make sure your panniers are waterproof - I fell in tiday :)
  <dwatkins> *today
  <popey> you fell in the canal?!
  <brobostigon> ouchie, :(
   * directhex stays at home in the warm
  <mungbean> oof
  <dwatkins> popey: yep, was a bit concerned for a moment that I might not get out, but was fine
  <dwatkins> my phones are drying
  <popey> dwatkins reminds me of https://twitter.com/Uk_Sniper1/status/292321931183652865
  <dwatkins> popey: haha
  <dwatkins> I hope the dog was ok
  <dwatkins> https://twitter.com/glymph/status/293671952458076161
  <dwatkins> that's me
  <Seeker`> dwatkins: how deep was it?
  <dwatkins> Seeker`: not sure, I couldn't feel the bottom
  <mungbean> which canal?
  <dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Canal_(Scotland)
  <mungbean> sounds cold
  <dwatkins> haha, it's only 5 feet deep :D
  <Seeker`> Probably warmer than the surrounding air, unless it was frozen over :P
  <Laney> O_O
  <dwatkins> mungbean: surprisingly it wasn't that cold, despite other parts of the canal being iced over
  <dwatkins> I think I was about here: http://goo.gl/maps/YSrqz
  <dwatkins> it was almost worth it for the look on my boss's face, though
  <dwatkins> I calmly told her how I'd fallen in and she couldn't believe it, especially since I was standing in front of her in dry clothes (they'd been in the pannier which hadn't gone under water)
  <mungbean> cycling naked again...
  <dwatkins> haha
   * dwatkins makes a "keep calm and cycle on" poster
  <mungbean> keep dry and stay on the path
  <michelle_> Hey knightwise :)
  <davidmarais> can anybody help me? My computer crashed and now I have lost all my IRC channels. My channels are still under my preferences but my IRC is not logging into them.
  <davmor2> czajkowski: prod just cause I haven't in ages
  <davmor2> davidmarais: what client do you use
  <davmor2> michelle_: hello stranger
  <diplo> hah you scared them off davmor2 :D
  <davmor2> diplo: it's my magnetic personality some I attract other I repel :D
  <diplo> heh
  <davmor2> morning all by the way, I got caught up in discussions else where
  <brobostigon> that reminds me of a joke, data made in the star trek film, generations.
  <davmor2> brobostigon: you suck at this don't you, you don't come out with half a statement like that and not complete it with the joke ;)
  <brobostigon> davmor2: haha, i am sure most here have seen it, and know the bit i was refferring to.
  <davmor2> brobostigon: I've seen it but when it was first released I can't remember that far back ;)
  <brobostigon> davmor2: ah, i see. ok.
  <knightwise> data joke ! Lol :)
  <Laney> wtf
  <Laney> *yesterday* I bought a subscription to the Guardian crossword app
  <Laney> today: Unfortunately, since introducing this subscription model, the uptake has been less than we would have hoped. As a result, we have taken the
  <Laney> +difficult decision to end our work on and support for our Android crosswords app.
  <popey> haha
  <Laney> perhaps it has something to do with the fact that there was no in-app indication that there even was a trial period
  <Laney> so after two weeks the crosswords just stop coming with no message to tell you why
  <gord> aren't there thousands of pre-existing crossword apps?
  <czajkowski> davmor2: ello just going on lunch bbiab
   * popey pokes jnick_tait with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTpUVAcvWfU
  <ali1234> lol eraserhead
  <jnick_tait> mr popey, you were very correct and i was very kerrong... in my defence i would say that i was think of this curiousity.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpgyVxP8OG8
  <popey> :D
  <Laney> oh gord
  <popey> ok thats odd
  <jnick_tait> popey, i thought it might appeal to your sense of the not quite right
  <directhex> apparently adding openjdk-7-jre to an ubuntu iso makes it not fit on a cd.
  <d3ngar> That's very sad...
  <popey> it doesnt fit on a cd anyway
  <directhex> if i pulled openjdk and crashplan back off, it'd fit
  <directhex> removing qt helps
  <knightwise> Ick !
  <knightwise> Java !
   * knightwise is wrestling with the current java expliot at work
  <directhex> knightwise, yeah, i know, java is basically worse than hitler. sadly, that's business for you
  <knightwise> LOL
  <directhex> i don't think i can free up another ~45 meg to make this fit on a CD.
  <knightwise> directhex: dump Java :) be nice to the users
  <directhex> knightwise, do you have a non-java version of CrashPlan's backup client?
  <knightwise> directhex: I feel your pain
  <dwatkins> directhex: I would like to see that, as it slows my Mac at work down
   * d3ngar actually likes Java a lot
  <directhex> sadly, java is still the top choice for cross-platform Enterprise(tm) software
  <dwatkins> indeed, directhex
  <d3ngar> Ys
  <directhex> doesn't make it any less bad than hitler though
  <d3ngar> I'm no developer, but in our company I do the occasional bit of deskopt app
  <dwatkins> that escalated fast
  <d3ngar> directhex: as a Jew I don't like the Hitler comparison, I know you are trying to be quirky, but it's not that great
  <d3ngar> And when I do need to write something that works on all platforms, I generally like using Java
  <d3ngar> I quite like Python as a language, but you have to install all sorts of additional things to make the same programme run on different machines
  <d3ngar> Not so good
  <d3ngar> Java is better in that regard
  <directhex> java's fine as long as you don't expect end-users to interact with it (since java apps always feel extremely heavy) and have buckets of ram lying around (since java's ram consumption is extraordinarily high). funnily enough it's fast, for pure cpu-bound code.
  <d3ngar> directhex: agreed. Which they would have done something about Java's extensive RAM usage, but I guess it's what it is.
  <Laney> bah
  <Laney> always freezing when returning from lunch
  <directhex> quit moaning. i'm still snowed in
  <dwatkins> Laney: I refuse to accept any complaints about it being cold, I fell into the canal this morning on my bike ;)
  <Laney> heh
  <Laney> how was the rest of the journey?
  <dwatkins> wet
  <Laney> 14.6Â° in here
  <dwatkins> 12 parsecs here
  <Laney> actually that's downstairs, colder up 'ere
  <dwatkins> oh sorry, that's degrees, that is pretty cold
  <dwatkins> parts of the canal were frozen
  <Laney> nice
  <Laney> did the electronics survive?
  <dwatkins> one phone did, I think - the other is still drying
  <dwatkins> thankfully I didn't have my iPad nor laptop with me (don't normally take them on the bike anyway)
  <Laney> I wonder if my waterproof panniers would survive a dunk like that
  <dwatkins> Laney: I hadn't done mine up correctly, big mistake
  <dwatkins> they hold water very well, though.... once it's got in
  <Laney> doh
  <Laney> I know a guy who got hugged off his bike into a canal by a drunk chap once
  <dwatkins> how mean
  <Laney> it was a brompton as well, which I bet made it look even more amusing
   * Laney looks at sladen
  <einonm> Hmm. Looks like Ubuntu got a +1 due to Fedora getting a -1 from Alan Cox https://plus.google.com/u/0/111104121194250082892/posts/aCiB7kTLXTh
  <Seeker`> popey: that 1080p phone definitely has a good GPU :D
  <daftykin1> omg @ client running a .exe from a .zip on a spam email FedEx fake
  <daftykin1> =/
  <solarcloud_3scrn> â Here is a snow flake , do you have any where you are ?? â ââ  âââ  ââââ    âââââ    ââââââ     ââââââ     ââ ââ ââ â
  <MartijnVdS> â
  <MartijnVdS> â
  <davmor2> a +alancox comment :D Unity seems to be "mostly harmless" - not quite my choice of desktop but not aimed at me eitherï»¿
  <Azelphur> Seems I'm still getting this gedit issue, it's odd nobody else seems affected, I did a fresh install to 12.10 and it's still happening :s
  <Azelphur> that is, minimise gedit -> you no longer have a text cursor
  <daftykins> XD
  <daftykins> carat plays hide and seek?
  <popey> a text cursor?
  <popey> how are you minimising gedit and where dont you see the text cursor?
  <Azelphur> I'll make a video to be more descriptive, one second
  <Azelphur> ah, more interesting, it seems to only happen when I'm doing a mouse gesture, perhaps it's related to me holding middle click while minimising
  <Azelphur> yea this seems fairly reproducible, hold down middle click and use a keycombo to minimise gedit (usually alt+F9)
  <Azelphur> and now you have no text cursor, enjoy xD
  <Azelphur> I bet someone can replicate that now I understand what causes it
  <Azelphur> popey: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nn3qu5e4cjf8s1w/2013-01-22%2019.08.12.mp4?m video uploaded
  <popey> alt+f9 doesn't minimise here
  <Azelphur> popey: yea, I've had it set in compiz for a few releases, I guess they changed it at some point
  <Azelphur> I dunno what it's set to now, it'll be in the general tab of ccsm I think
  <Azelphur> just thought, I can easily try and replicate this on my laptop, see if I get anywhere
  <Azelphur> nope, gah. Can't reproduce it on my laptop
  <daftykins> the voice of Azelphur :O
  <Azelphur> indeed
  <Azelphur> since it seems to just be a bug with my weird setup, I found a workaround
  <daftykins> Azelphur: curiously it appears to have left before the window even 'peels' away
  <Azelphur> fun
  <daftykins> unless that's just how window management goes, sorta 'animations' stop before the redraw
  <daftykins> Azelphur: what do you mouse middle click for?
  <Azelphur> daftykins: initiate mouse gesture
  <daftykins> what kind of things do you do with that?
  <Azelphur> daftykins: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jan/2013-01-22-201924_800x1405_scrot.png
  <daftykins> my word
  <daftykins> but keyboard shortcuts :'(
  <Azelphur> I have keyboard shortcuts too, but I often have my hand on the mouse and a gesture is pretty easy
  <daftykins> ah
  <Azelphur> this is why I miss the compiz fire plugin though, it was set up with easystroke to display a trail on my mouse when performing a gesture
  <Azelphur> which was awesome. :<
  <daftykins> :(
  <daftykins> i remember a coursemate at Uni using some gesture firefox add-on
  <daftykins> though i didn't see that being easier to draw a line to go 'back' versus hitting the hardware mouse button, if you have one
  <Azelphur> yea, it shines with things like close/maximise/minimise
  <Azelphur> as those buttons are annoyingly small
  <popey> \o/ my hand never leaves the keyboard for the mouse âº
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <daftykins> ^
  <popey> i use alt+space, n  for minimise, and alt+space, x for maximise
  <daftykins> i try to avoid mousing
  <popey> have done for many many years
  <constrictor> I am getting unable to find suitable address error when trying to mount a NAS share any help ?
  <daftykins> what's your mount command?
  <constrictor> sudo mount -t cifs -o user=administrator,password=mypassword //192.168.0.11/share /home/kwabena/Netdrive
  <popey> has the IP of the NAS changed>?
  <popey> that IP doesn't look static
  <constrictor> the ip is the same
  <popey> so you can ping it?
  <daftykins> are those slashes right for the device side 0o
  <constrictor> yep I am getting 100% responses
  <popey> ya
  <Azelphur> another thing for the Azelphur broke it list, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jan/2013-01-22-174340_582x712_scrot.png
  <daftykins> XD
  <daftykins> i prefer to idle on IRC and let others trawl that abomination of a timewasting device, linking me to the goodies instead
  <popey> heh
  <brobostigon> sorry, but what is the syntax, to pipe the output from a program into pastebinit ?
  <popey> foo | pastebinit
  <brobostigon> thank you popey
  <constrictor> anyway thanks guys, I got in through http, configured ftp and accessed it through there
  <daftykins> 0o
  <daftykins> nothin' like givin' up on your problem
  <brobostigon> popey: thats giving me error, "You are trying to send an empty document, exiting."
  <popey> your program isn't outputting anything to stdout
  <daftykins> brobostigon: > it to a file and check
  <brobostigon> popey: it is output form webcam, v4l2 errors.
  <brobostigon> daftykins: let me try that, and pastebinit in reverse.
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Aloha, Hi there  G+comm very active today .. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Google%20Plus%20%26%20G%2Bcomm%20very%20active%20today.png
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Anyone checked their GPlus lately ??
  <brobostigon> http://pastebin.com/nd0D9Ypz thats the error i am getting,
  <solarcloud_3scrn> brobostigon: Can't help you , but nice blog all the same :D http://blog.taylorworld.me.uk/
  <brobostigon> solarcloud_3scrn: thats my mums, for her toy bear.
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Oh, sorry , thought was your bog, oh well... nice bit I'm looking at next on #aspie ??
  <brobostigon> solarcloud_3scrn: at next on ?
  <solarcloud_3scrn> righht, doesn't sound like a good link..so I won't click it.. #aspietalks stats  ...
  <brobostigon> solarcloud_3scrn: thats just another irc channel i go to, they wanted channel statistics, let the ones i do for here, as they asked me, because i also have aspergers.
  <brobostigon> solarcloud_3scrn: ie, aspie being shortform for aspergers.
  <brobostigon> or someone with aspergers.
  <solarcloud_3scrn> I well aware; as I run the #wrongplanet G+comm. http://goo.gl/N7Lgq
  <solarcloud_3scrn> ** I'm
  <brobostigon> ah.
  <brobostigon> solarcloud_3scrn: do yu have it yourself?
  <solarcloud_3scrn> once, but now I do porridge ..
  <brobostigon> that isnt possible, you will aspergers/autism all your life, it will always be there.
  <brobostigon> have*
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Well my medical records said I had an asperger incident .. as I paid Â£50 for them ..and scanned them in .. so maybe the law is different here..
  <solarcloud_3scrn> you are not aspie all the time IMHO
  <popey> brobostigon: so the webcam was working but now isnt? what changed?
  <brobostigon> popey: i havent changed anything, that i know of, i have just changed the quality etc abit in webcam's config file.
  <popey> is there another thing holding the webcam open?
  <popey> like cheese or another webcam process running in screen?
  <brobostigon> popey: not that i know of, let me run lsof on it.
  <brobostigon> lsof returns nothing.
  <popey> what type of webcam is it?
  <brobostigon> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 046d:089d Logitech, Inc. QuickCam E2500 series
  <popey> bummer
  <brobostigon> ?
  <brobostigon> oh dear.
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Will the Logitech 9000 make any difference ??
  <brobostigon> solarcloud_3scrn: not a clue, dont have it.
  <brobostigon> popey: ie, there is some existing issue?
  <popey> brobostigon: pass
  <brobostigon> popey: ok, you bummer just gave me an impression, you knew more. :)
  <brobostigon> your*
  <brobostigon> sorry,
  <brobostigon> i did find https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/326674
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 326674 in linux (Ubuntu Jaunty) "Logitech Quickcam E2500 not supported" [Medium,Fix released]
  <brobostigon> wrong thing entirly.
  <dwatkins> popey: http://imgur.com/gallery/mDDF0
  <dwatkins> (cat-related)
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-23
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Dunno what papers in the UK/environ's run sports' issues on a Wednesday   .. but Bradford will be all over them today .. as they're going to Wembley in the League.
  <neuro> do you not get mainland papers in .uk?
  <neuro> erm, in .im?
  <solarcloud_3scrn> neuro: We get all of them , just can't recall if sports is a section in the newspaper on Wednesday, if you read my post .. didn't mention ManxLand.
  <neuro> virtually every national paper has a sport (not "sports"!) section
  <neuro> daily
  <neuro> and bradford is the top story on bbc.co.uk/sport
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Soz for calling it sports ..it's the first thingy I see most days ... http://goo.gl/a11kR neuro
  <neuro> scary!
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Sorry 'bout that...
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <czajkowski> morning folks
  <dwatkins> hiya
  <brobostigon> morning czajkowski and dwatkins
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
  <SuperMatt> good morning
  <SuperMatt> so all this talk kof rolling releasaes
  <SuperMatt> TBH, I feel like I've been on a rolling release for ages
  <SuperMatt> I always install late alpha/early beta versions
  <andylockran> morning
  <constrictor> Has anyone set up their own video conferencing solutions here?
  <constrictor> i.e. web based video conferencing where presenter and audience log in to a URL and everything is kept in there?
  <diplo> Morning all
  <constrictor> morning diplo
  <czajkowski> contempt: used www.brighttalk.com/
   * davidmarais heading to GS2
  <popey> Good morning.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> bah humbug.
   * popey hugs TheOpenSourcerer 
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Battling some annoying PM software in OpenERP
  <popey> Did you see I found a trello-like kanban thing?
  <popey> it's very nice
  <popey> http://wholemeal.co.nz/projects/fulcrum.html
  <popey> shame it's written in ruby
  <einonm> what's wrong with ruby? I've just started playing about with it
  <TheOpenSourcerer> neat popey
  <BigRedS> einonm: everything
  <mungbean> ruby on rails popey ?
  <BigRedS> well, I've not yet got anything against the language itself, but most things written in it seem to be done so poorly
  <mungbean> i've used RoR and it seems so non-enterprise ready
  <BigRedS> and it is the language of the devops
  <popey> yes mungbean
  <einonm> BigRedS: bash scripts FTW?
  <popey> packaging is a laugh
  <mungbean> had real problems running up redmine
  <directhex> sigh @ bug 997042
  <lubotu3> bug 997042 in evolution-data-server (Ubuntu) "LDAP address book intermittently non-functional" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997042
  <BigRedS> einonm: Perl!
  <BigRedS> (seriously)
  <mungbean> however once up, it is stable
  <popey> i recently discovered that Frozen Bubble is written in Perl
  <mungbean> :-|
  <solarcloud_3scrn> TheOpenSourcerer: Hi there, I was wondering what book you are reading at the moment from [PACKT] Publishing , & can we expect a new blog/post any time soon ??
  <popey> directhex: do you know if it happens with upstream evolution?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> solarcloud_3scrn: I have nothing to read from Packt at the moment.
  <rowinggolfer> where to buy a small business server machine?
  <solarcloud_3scrn> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh, Soo the adverts on the right of www.theopensourcerer.com , are just that, ... adverts.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Kind of yeah - They have been there for ages...
  <directhex> popey, really hard to test, given how interwoven gnome technologies (like e-d-s) can be
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I tend not to blog that much now. Mainly Twitter and G+
  <solarcloud_3scrn> TheOpenSourcerer:  what is the Alan Lord; twitter & G+ address ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> twitter: @opensourcerer, G+ Alan Lord
  <solarcloud_3scrn> scanning .. for "  " ...
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <einonm> BigRedS: perl, that's like python with more wrinkles and grey hair, right? ;)
  <solarcloud_3scrn> TheOpenSourcerer:  following on twitter & G+Plus... now .. already following you in my 'Ubuntu' circle, Soo sorry if I've asked you that before..... I'm Lenny|M (sic) ...  but I'll look at your tweets so far, some time today ... thanx.
  <BigRedS> einonm: haha, yeah. Python definitely looks a bit like a hyperactive kid from here :)
  <BigRedS> and it's bloody everywhere
  <einonm> so what does the aspiring web-type write webpages in these days? Last time I did one, 'under construction' gifs were all the rage
  <popey> directhex: can you test with a fedora CD?
  <BigRedS> einonm: whatever they like? >>90% of what we're hosting is PHP.
  <BigRedS> We are, though, the Debian of hosting rather than the Arch :)
  <davmor2> wow popey there I was believing that Perl wasn't all that useful and then you go and tell me that frozen bubble is written in it so now my entire universe has been flipped upside down, excuse me while I reboot into windows ;)
  <einonm> BigRedS:  Hmm. Perhaps I should carry on waiting until all these new-fangled languages go away and someone writes a proper framework in c
  <popey> haha
  <solarcloud_3scrn> Damn, just realised that I putt my left sock on inside out, today .. It's an alternative one !!
  <directhex> einonm,  they did: mono/mini/mini-amd64.c
   * directhex flees
  <einonm> mono? Isn't that c# with extra patents?
  <directhex> it is literally impossible for anything except c# to be patented. it's the law.
  <davmor2> directhex: you obviously haven't seen Judge Dredd enough the quote is "I am the Law!"
  <zleap> hello
  <davmor2> zleap: hello
  <zleap> what file do i edit to tell linux that say a specifc ip is a readablename
  <zleap> e,.g 192.168.1.17 raspberry pi,  so i can then do ssh pi@raspberrypi   I can't remember what file i edited
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - It's snowing quite heavily again here
  <zleap> its just raining here
  <zleap> a hosts
  <zleap> i got it
  <directhex> zleap, /etc/hosts
  <directhex> same filename on windows, surprisingly
  <zleap> thats it,  i just thought of it
  <zleap> i was trying to also think of how to google for the file
  <directhex> c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc/hosts
  <zleap> ouch
  <zleap> thanks
  <knightwise> The classic question : should I enable swap on an ssd ... No .. right ?
  <popey> i see no reason not to
  <directhex> no swap = no hibernate
  <rowinggolfer> ssd aside, is it still swap size should be approx 2x ram capacity?
  <directhex> nah
  <directhex> PC will become unusable long before that
  <brobostigon> cbs action, tribbles, :)
  <directhex> swap should be enough for hibernate, no more, imho
  <popey> +1
   * BigRedS notes that it never really was a rule that swap be 2 x RAM
  <gord> if you happen to want to use hibernate, which you might not want to in this day and age
  <BigRedS> hibernating is a bit like saving a session and powering down, but it takes longer and is less reliable :)
  <gord> i find it takes a lot longer to read 4/8gb of hibernate from the swap space than to just boot up
  <BigRedS> I've an md array which is resyncing, is there a way I can find out which disk is being readded? I'm sure I've seen that question answered here before :)
  <BigRedS> Googling's not being overly helpful, and oddly it doesn't seem to have put that info into syslog
  <popey> md is dead to me âº
  <Laney> BigRedS: Can you see "RebuildStarted event detected on md device /dev/md..." in syslog?
  <Laney> I see that for my rebuild yesterday and slightly above that is "md: bind<sdc>" which is the device I readded
  <BigRedS> Laney: nope. But I do have a handy call trace from ext which pinpoints the broken disk :)
  <diplo> This isn't a ubuntu question but general none the less, want help finding an answer
  <diplo> We have an old ERP system, we offer a view before print, this toggles from 80 to 132 in the terminal window
  <diplo> This works fine in a normal session, if we're running in a screen session this fails.. any ideas how to debug/search for it issues fix as my foo is failing big time atm
  <daubers> BigRedS: It should say in /proc/mdstat
  <BigRedS> daubers: yeah, it does when it needs resyncing, but not when it's actually resyncing
  <BigRedS> https://gist.github.com/4605712 is what it looks like
  <popey> bug 1103475
  <lubotu3> bug 1103475 in Compiz "compiz fails to start properly after update to 1:0.9.8.6+bzr3432-0ubuntu1~test1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103475
  <StrontiumCat> bug 2
  <lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 2 could not be found
  <StrontiumCat> bug 1103477
  <lubotu3> bug 1103477 in juju-gui "Add test for relation removal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103477
  <popey> bug 1087375
  <lubotu3> bug 1087375 in Unity "unity desktop freezes after login (with ppa:unity-team/staging on virtualbox vm)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087375
  <StrontiumCat> bug 107939
  <lubotu3> bug 73058 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #107939 GUI Installer crashed... Ubuntu 6.10 off LiveCD" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73058
   * popey wonders if StrontiumCat is picking bugs at random
  <StrontiumCat> hehe
  <StrontiumCat> sorry =)
  <xnox> StrontiumCat: you can chat with lubotu3 in private =)
  <StrontiumCat> i'm shy =)
  <Seeker`> bug 1
  <lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
  <Seeker`> Still not fixed :(
  <mungbean> how do i disable crash reporter please?
  <mungbean> Seeker`: does android not outnumber MS on computing devices yet?
  <mungbean> or are we talking about desktops
  <Seeker`> mungbean: read the bug :)
  <mungbean> meh
  <mungbean> tldr
  <popey> mungbean: which bit of the crash reporter?
  <popey> you can remove apport and whoopsie
  <mungbean> the packages?
  <popey> which would mean your crashes don't get reported (so we don't know they're happening and thus can't fix them)
  <popey> yes
  <mungbean> i'm on elemtnary so you probably don't care either :P
  <mungbean> unsupported use of ubuntu apps :P
  <popey> oh they don't remove those ?
  <popey> that's a bit daft
  <mungbean> no, maybe they send them somewhere else? (probably not)
  <popey> unlikely
  <Seeker`> mungbean: you only had to read the first 10 words to get the answer to your question...
  <mungbean> Seeker`: is still copying a link to my browser
  <popey> mungbean: maybe you should file a bug with them and let them know?
  <Laney> System Settings â Privacy â Diagnostics
  <mungbean> thanks Laney
  <bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
  <brobostigon> From 2001:7f8:4::3b41:1 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Administratively prohibited
  <brobostigon> anyone encountered an error like that before ?
  <brobostigon> i was trying to ping google, ping/ipv4 worked fine,
  <solarcloud_3srcn> bigcalm, Afternoon ... Anyone sen if *Bradford* were in the newspapers today ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **seen
  <kvarley> Does this (https://launchpad.net/consortium) mean we will be able to install the consort desktop environment on ubuntu?
  <kvarley> If it does, that'd be awesome. I'd install consortium via ubuntu mini for the family PCs :)
  <czajkowski> knightwise: means they are working on some dev you can always contact the developer for more info
  <ali1234> swing and a miss...
  <czajkowski> bah
  <Laney> ffs
  <czajkowski> Laney: sup ?
  <Laney> I get a few spam phone calls a day on my mobile now
  <Laney> PPIers apparently
  <directhex> PPIers i hang up on, usually after mumbling "for freak's sake" or similar
  <directhex> "windows support" i ask whether their family are aware they are professional thieves
  <directhex> they usually hang up on me
  <Laney> I just answered it and played ladyhawke at them
  <MartijnVdS> Whee! http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Date-Confirmed-for-the-Doctors-Return
   * popey rubs his legs in the direction of Jenna-Louise Coleman
  <BigRedS> Is she the new assistant?
  <MartijnVdS> she is
  <BigRedS> I only ever see the christmas specials of dr who. I might see more of this particular series
  <MartijnVdS> another Neil Gaiman episode is planne
  <MartijnVdS> \o/.
  <popey> http://x-surface.tumblr.com/
  <MartijnVdS> popey: Troll'd :)
  <popey> yeah
  <MartijnVdS> Apple Mac SE teardown video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Qq5nVCsRI
  <popey> âº  I do love Dave Jones, he's so funny
  <popey> at one point in that video he says something like "If this youtube gig goes all to buggery, I can work as an Apple engineer"
  <MartijnVdS> :)
  <MartijnVdS> Motor-mouth Aussie ;)
   * DJones hopes popey's love is fraternal
  <MartijnVdS> DJones: why? don't you love popey back?
  <nigelb> AlanBell: hey!
  <nigelb> AlanBell: I'm in London! Near Kings Cross.
  <MartijnVdS> poor you :P
  <nigelb> lol
  <Azelphur> does anyone here do home automation stuff? I'm interested in doing some basic security and lights to start with :P
  <Azelphur> but I'm not really sure where to get started
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Z-Wave :)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: USB controllers exist (so you can write your own software, Linux driver software exists)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and wireless switches, dimmers, sensors, etc.
  <Azelphur> cool
  <daftykins> Azelphur + USB things = danger
  <daftykins> ;)
  <Azelphur> lol
  <brobostigon> good aplication for an rpi, controlling that lot, maybe.
  <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I doubt he'll boil away the north sea
  <Azelphur> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REvmhBO99I4 \o/
  <Azelphur> I have a home server already setup
  <daftykins> 8D
  <Azelphur> I will need wireless and easily removable kit that said, since this is a rented place
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hence, Zwave :)
  <Azelphur> funky, I'm on their site reading now
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://zwave-products.co.uk/
  <Azelphur> yea that's where I'm at
  <Azelphur> lol only 400 quid for the control unit
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: USB control units are lots cheaper
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but you'll have to write your own cron jobs ;)
  <Azelphur> that's pretty much what I want anyway, I want control over it from the PC.
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: https://code.google.com/p/open-zwave/wiki/Controller_Compatibility_List
  <Azelphur> http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-tricklestar-usb-adapter so one of these?
  <Azelphur> that's more my price range ;)
  <MartijnVdS> yeah
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: https://code.google.com/p/open-zwave/wiki/ProjectsUsingOZW is also useful
  <Azelphur> cool, it has a python library, that's me set.
  <Azelphur> I know my python. :)
  <MartijnVdS> (things that need context)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://fnu.iranger.com/ozwcp.jpg
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that already exists
  <Azelphur> sweet, that looks like it needs work :p
   * Azelphur can do things with that
  <Azelphur> I'd probably be doing something with my phone for the remote
  <Azelphur> what sort of thing would I want for the control of a light?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-everspring-on-off-socket or http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-everspring-dimmer-socket
  <MartijnVdS> http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave/lighting-sockets :)
  <Azelphur> ah no, I'm talking about room lights, not ones that plug into a wall
  <Azelphur> the type of light with a switch on the wall
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: look at the bottom of that page
  <Azelphur> I see
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or top.. they have "inserts" for behind the switch, or complete switch replacements
  <Azelphur> http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-merten-electronic-switch-wall-socket the stuff at the bottom says it requires a cover too
  <MartijnVdS> well of course :)
  <MartijnVdS> that's just the back
  <Azelphur> it says a Z-Wave cover specifically, and links to a 60 quid product lol
  <MartijnVdS> they know how to make money
  <Azelphur> for a total of Â£90 per light, which is steep ;)
  <Azelphur> unless I only need the Â£27.60 part for it to work
  <MartijnVdS> maybe you can find cheaper versions in China (but mind the frequency it uses :)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you only need the Â£27,60 part but it'll look ugly :)
  <Azelphur> haha
  <MartijnVdS> also.. sticking your fingers into unprotected power sockets?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have these (or things like these): http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-fibaro
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you put them in the wall (behind the switch or where the wires for the light come out)
  <Azelphur> cool, wouldn't it be too big to fit though?
  <Azelphur> unless you dug out more wall for it to fit
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: British electricity standards are different from those here in .nl
  <Azelphur> ah
  <Azelphur> http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/products/Fibaro-Dimmer-Bypass.html what about this?
  <MartijnVdS> that's if you want to use one of the dimmers to dim low power lights
  <MartijnVdS> (LEDs)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have one of these in every room: http://www.onlinebouwmarkt.nl/winkel/images/uploads/Centraaldoos%20-%20vierkant.jpg (in the ceiling)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and similar on the wall where switches/etc are
  <MartijnVdS> (which you mount to them)
  <Azelphur> what are they? that just looks like a plastic box to me lol
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they are :) They were put there while the house was being built.. and the wires run from my meter to the ceiling points, and from there to the switches :)
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (yay star topologies)
  <Azelphur> ah, I can't dig into any walls, I'm renting ;)
  <Azelphur> I like the idea of that Z-Wave Fibaro I found, just that it doesn't take a proper light
  <Azelphur> http://zwave-products.co.uk/shop/article_31/MK-Astral-LDF11-WHI-1G-Dimmer-_-Input-Fascia.html?pse=coa this maybe?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: You don't have to.. aren't switches, etc. mounted on boxes like that there?
  <Azelphur> our switches are mounted on the wall
  <MartijnVdS> so are mine
  <MartijnVdS> but they connect to wires _in_ the wall
  <Azelphur> ah, yea that's right
  <Azelphur> there are indeed wires in the wall
  <MartijnVdS> so there's a little hole behind each (set of) switch(es)
  <Azelphur> yea, but I imagine there's not much room back there
  <MartijnVdS> those receivers/dimmers are made to fit those holes :)
  <Azelphur> the one I linked?
  <MartijnVdS> and.. EU law.. you have 1 or 2 weeks to send them back for no reason ;)
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <MartijnVdS> I think that's only a face plate ("Fascia")
  <Azelphur> ah
  <Azelphur> yea I'm just trying to figure out exactly what to get, the stuff that you have confuses me on how exactly it operates
  <Azelphur> I would have thought there would be a simple "replace your light switch with this and now it's Z-Wave compatible" thing
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you can call one (or several) of the companies.. they'll probably know more about how electricity systems work in the UK :)
  <Azelphur> hehe yea, I'm more trying to figure out how Z-Wave works atm
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 868 MHz :)
  <Azelphur> well yea, I got that much, you have a USB thing that sends radio signals to <something>
  <Azelphur> I just havn't figured out what the something is yet
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes.. switches, dimmers, sensors (it's two-way)
  <Azelphur> I see
  <MartijnVdS> "Fibaro" units are like the plug-in ones: they contain a Z-Wave radio (with a unique id)
  <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-wave
  <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-wave#Z-Wave_network_setup
  <Azelphur> ah I see, the fibaro is much smaller than I thought it was
  <Azelphur> I'm gonna have a little peek behind a light switch and see how much space is there
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring_in_the_United_Kingdom
  <Azelphur> fun
  <Azelphur> not touching any wires as of yet, just looking to see if I think it'll fit :)
  <daftykins> no frying yourself alive now Azelphur
  <daftykins> well, unless it's video'd
  <Azelphur> noted XD
  <daftykins> :D
  <MartijnVdS> youtube live streaming ;)
  <daftykins> i wonder if some of my really pointless videos would sell for money to those clipshows
  <daftykins> Â£250 still :O
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mmmpphf, I've asked twice whether someone ad seen if *Bradford* were in the papers ( whatever part./section it is) 'cos they beat Villa(Hurrah!!) in the League .. oh well, Don't read ya' newspapers, then.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **had
  <Azelphur> yea, looks like there's a little box back there
  <Azelphur> might be a bit tight
  <neuro> well
  <neuro> this is interesting
  <neuro> i switched to a new ovh/kimsufi server last month
  <neuro> only now getting it up to speed
  <neuro> seems i'm on a gigabit port
  <neuro> 533Mbit peak at the moment ...
  <neuro> *boggle*
  <MartijnVdS> nice
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtmb4zkur21ze94/2013-01-23%2020.18.57.jpg reckon it'll fit?
  <neuro> 640!!
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes
  <neuro> 784!!!!!
  <Azelphur> cool
  <neuro> 950!?!!?!?!!?!
  <MartijnVdS> neuro: 10GigE-port?
  <Azelphur> so all I need to get started and play around is a fibaro and the USB device?
  <neuro> MartijnVdS: gig
  <Azelphur> that should get me control of one light?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes.. and maybe a plug-in one
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so you can play around with that as well
  <Azelphur> hehe, I'll start small and aim for one light, and buy more things if it doesn't end up like my arduino :P
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then buy the plug-in one first
  <solarcloud_3srcn> .. looks like they got paint in the wires / on the wires too ! Azelphur
  <neuro> downloads complete, back to kilobit per sec burble
  <neuro> wow
  <neuro> colour me impressed
  <Azelphur> solarcloud_3srcn: yea, this place doesn't exactly pass health and safety, the landlord is in serious trouble
  <MartijnVdS> neuro: you sound like me when I got 100/100 at home 8-)
  <neuro> MartijnVdS: :)
  <Azelphur> I literally had inspectors randomly knock on my door the other day and ask me about the landlord
  <neuro> the spec for the box says GigE connection, but 100Mbps throughput
  <Azelphur> and I basically said all the same stuff that everyone else in the block apparently said, nobody is happy, and the inspectors are after him :P
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Azelphur: I've only ever rented in eire, so I wouldn't know, .... sorry.
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <neuro> unless they're not rate limiting inside the ovh datacentres ... maybe that's it
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: my upstairs neighbor's house is for sale.. :)
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha
  <Azelphur> maybe one day when I get rich ;)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> MartijnVdS: Is that in Dutch-land ??
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: Itis
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: know of any chinese knockoff / cheaper versions of the fibaro? I had a ebay search but didn't find much.
  <Azelphur> I find it odd that the light is more expensive than the controller xD
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I haven't looked myself.. a coworker was going on about them :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ok .. is there a marketplatz .. r web address for the adv.ert or sommit ? MartijnVdS
  <Azelphur> ah
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: marktplaats.nl
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: definitely enough info to get me started hunting and learning though, ty :D
  <solarcloud_3srcn> MartijnVdS: Where is the advert for the property on the net ??
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: funda.nl
  <solarcloud_3srcn> plz be specific,,,
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: ah, my neighbor isn't on there I think
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: (which is why it's taking so long)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> oh .. lol
  <solarcloud_3srcn> strange case o' deja vu.
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: they're changing the matrix
  <solarcloud_3srcn> !dejavu
  <solarcloud_3srcn> even the .bot is flumixed.
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: there's this one.. that's nearby, in a similar building: http://www.funda.nl/koop/alphen-aan-den-rijn/appartement-48654731-saffierstraat-116/
  <solarcloud_3srcn> opening....
  <solarcloud_3srcn> You are about 15 minutes from the devil's sister...
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: who?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> my sis.
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: in Leiden?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Voorschoten.
  <MartijnVdS> On The Hague side of Leiden :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> yep.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> MartijnVdS: Found it .. Near the Hotel de Gouden Leeuw .. took a while...
   * solarcloud_3srcn remembers the ostriches fondly, but that fondly.
  <MartijnVdS> THAT fondly?
  <daftykins> http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/23/3908286/thq-dissolved-studios-sold-off-ceo-announces-in-letter-to-staff
  <solarcloud_3srcn> kinda petulant, If I recall.
  <MartijnVdS> what's a thq?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> dunno, game maker ?
  <MartijnVdS> ah Saint's Row games
  <MartijnVdS> and lots of licensed titles
  <solarcloud_3srcn> true.. mostly winblows.
  <MartijnVdS> mostly console even
  <MartijnVdS> but TV-show tie-in games etc.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> true,
  <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_THQ_games
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Soo, MartijnVdS, as you are near my sibling o' satan, .. Quick question: What's the snow & ice like in Holland at moment ?
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: Lots of frozen snow left over from Sunday... but streets & bicycle lanes have been cleared
  <solarcloud_3srcn> nice ..
  <MartijnVdS> Walking is.. perilous :)
   * solarcloud_3srcn wonders if he should run and Ad. in Delft freecycle for ice spiked shoe-overlays to give to the needy (for a postal price :) )
  <MartijnVdS> ha :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> but seriosly, they are looking for a moderator for that site, if you interested (it's not just delft) .. but you'll prob.ly say No, oh well.
  <MartijnVdS> I've moderated enough sites. Never again :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Yeah, the only free(cycle) thingy I got in Holland was chippy mayonnaise... & that sucked balls and blew chunks compared to Hellman's diet mayo.
  <AlanBell> hi nigelb \o
  <solarcloud_3srcn> :-[
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: We had a guy on the Ubuntu Gcomm .. who was using Win8 .. and couldn't load a UNETBOOTIN file to generate an ISO burning program to install UBUNTU .. What are your thought-s on how to-do this ??
  <BigRedS> Couldn't load a unetbootin file? in that the installer broke?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> felt sorry 4 the guy as everyone just told him a stressball .. http://liveusb.info/dotclear/index.php?pages/Tux-Anti-Stress
  <BigRedS> Did it present an error message?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> bigBigR: Doesn't seem to load in Win8 .. dunnno never tried it, so I wouldn't know.
  <BigRedS> okay...
  <AlanBell> solarcloud_3srcn: got a link to the conversation?
  <BigRedS> without knowing what happened it's hard to suggest solutions, but either way it's likely a Windows (or perhaps Unetbootin) issue rather than a Ubuntu one
  <BigRedS> someone here *might* know, but perhaps a Windowsy person would be more reliably useful?
  <AlanBell> or he hasn't burned the iso in a useful way
  <daftykins> who are you talking about?
  <AlanBell> we don't know!
  <solarcloud_3srcn> some russian on Ubuntu G+comm.
  <AlanBell> I am unable to locate such a conversation
  <daftykins> oic
  <solarcloud_3srcn> +AlanBell, t was days ago .. and not fruitfull either way.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **it was...
  <Azelphur> I'll just put this here... http://youtu.be/ivBpNGwvrpg :P
  <daftykins> XD
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Azelphur: I'm thnking he's not for Ben or Jerry, then. ^_^ http://www.magicfreebiesuk.co.uk/search/?search_term=ice+cream
  <daftykins> i saw the original for that
  <daftykins> epic edit
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <daftykins> :D
  <Myrtti> ooooo http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nabeesocks/nabee-socks-warm-and-happy-hugs-for-your-feet - for those of us who fly a lot and hate the compression socks...
  <Myrtti> I might throw my money at Kickstarter and get all four pairs
  <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
  <daftykins> lawl
  <daftykins> can you not just take your footwear off whilst on the plane?
  <Myrtti> sure, but how would that help against DVT?
  <daftykins> well you're meant to get up and move around anyway
  <daftykins> no need to spend for the same result surely
  <Myrtti> because there aren't any other reasons for wearing the socks, right?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> "here at Nabee sock's , We've put warm and hugs into socks." Pleeeease.
  <Myrtti> I just mentioned it here because I know there's lots of people who travel a lot by air. I happen to need them for another reason too, but ok. Nevermind.
  <Myrtti> moving on
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Myrtti: Good try, keep going....
  <AlanBell> knox in box, hugs in socks. Knox on hugs in socks in box
  <daftykins> i didn't mean for you to get so defensive Myrtti
  <AlanBell> daftykins: that isn't the same result at all, pressure is needed, so taking shoes off doesn't provide that, you have to wear small/tight socks to have the effect
  <popey> Myrtti: nice pitch, shame the mens are only available in black/grey
  <AlanBell> whether it works or not I don't know, but taking shoes off is not the same thing
  <daftykins> AlanBell: i didn't mean just the shoe removing for that part
  <daftykins> nevermind, you lot ruin a simple convo at times =/
  <popey> although tbh that's probably an advantage, multiple pairs of black/grey rather than lots of random patterns I'd lose âº
  <popey> oh, bum, US shipping only
   * solarcloud_3srcn poses consoling gravitational hugs ...
  <solarcloud_3srcn> \o/
  <Myrtti> popey: don't pick a perk and pay 10USD extra for shipping
  <popey> Hmm, April.. could get them shipped to someone and I could pick up at UDS
  <popey> oh, where does it say that?
  <Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nabeesocks/nabee-socks-warm-and-happy-hugs-for-your-feet/posts/388915
  <Myrtti> popey: also Emma Jane in Facebook
  <popey> ta
  <Myrtti> "Read all of the words. Ships internationally. Don't choose a reward, use whatever amount you want, plus $10 for international shipping. Send him a message to say what you want."
  <popey> oh ffs
  <popey> oh, i see âº
  <popey> i got the "Sorry, the reward you've selected ships within the US only. If you're in the US, click "In the US" below"
  <popey> hence the ffs before I saw your line âº
   * popey â¥  kickstarter
   * solarcloud_3srcn wonders: But Will It Blend ?? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gcw/gcw-zero-open-source-gaming-handheld?ref=discover_pop
  <kostas> \nick Mentor32
  <popey> ooh nice solarcloud_3srcn
  <BigRedS> Oooh
   * BigRedS has a eurostar ticket for fosdem
  <BigRedS> Conveniently, there's actually two
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Are you going to delirium ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> BigRedS: Are you ?
  <Myrtti> my eyes glaze over the pitch videos and I just read the actual text...
  <Myrtti> I suppose I'm a minority member of kickstarter users
  <Myrtti> in that aspect
  <BigRedS> solarcloud_3srcn: Is that the 'official' beery thing on the friday?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> yep.. till 6am on saturday :D
  <BigRedS> nah, likely not. First time I went to fosdem I could smell it from a mile or so away
  <solarcloud_3srcn> oh, your a regular ?
  <BigRedS> not seen fit to get much closer since
  <BigRedS> ah, no, my first time at fosdem was the year before last
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mine , 2012.
  <BigRedS> It just took me way too long to work out when 2012 was
  <BigRedS> :/
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Belgium.. mmm Where them /beaches/ at ? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Delirium%20at%20the%20back%20..JPEG
  <solarcloud_3srcn> First lesson of Fosdem .. bring a debit card, not a credit card :)
  <BigRedS> hahaha
  <solarcloud_3srcn> BigRedS: Checkout the G+comm. and the couchsurfing group... just to be social, that is.. need any links ??
  <BigRedS> Nah, going with people from work, so I've definitely *some* people to drink with :) Generally, though, I found that if you walk into a bar and follow the sound of an argument you find fosdem people#
  <solarcloud_3srcn> k
  <solarcloud_3srcn> did I miss Jono tonight ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I get a network error ? http://ubuntuonair.com/
  <popey> i updated the dns for the site
  <popey> jono was on earlier
  <solarcloud_3srcn> oh OK
  <popey> will fix in a bit
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Is there anyway I can watch the meeting ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey : ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: ** Is there any way I can watch the meeting ??
   * solarcloud_3srcn gives up askin'            .
  <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: yes
  <popey> http://ubuntuonair.com/
  <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=synlnIErJKU
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, brilliant, thanx  .. just fit it in before ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8USz0xVZo0
  <popey> meh
  <popey> i have _no_ time for him
  <solarcloud_3srcn> classic response.. I just really watch the daily vlogs.
  <dogmatic69> omg skype v4 > skype v2
  <Laney> someone learned to count!
  <popey> well done you!
  <mgdm> so someone is going to take a phone out of a box, and he's got YouTube to let him stream it?
  <mgdm> blimey
  <mgdm> and I concur with popey, I've often wondered why that guy is as well known as he appears to be
  <mgdm> well, I say 'often'. More than once.
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-24
  <knightwise> morning
  <diplo> Morning
  <knightwise> hey diplo  !
  <knightwise> how are you :)
  <popey> morning
  <diplo> Morning knightwise, sorry work call :)
  <diplo> Good thanks, albeit a tad cold this morning! And you ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
  <aptanet> TheOpenSourcerer, a cold an icy morning it is too
  <nigelb> Morning popey
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Hi aptanet, morning popey
  <nigelb> Hey TheOpenSourcerer
  <TheOpenSourcerer> hey nigelb how's it going? long time no see
  <nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Going good. I'm in London!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
  <popey> yo yo yo
  <TheOpenSourcerer> For good, or just visiting?
  <nigelb> just visiting.
  <nigelb> I'll be here for 3 weeks, I hope to meet as many of you guys as I can manage ;)
  <popey> London all of that time or moving about?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds like a plan.
  <nigelb> Cambridge for a week.
  <nigelb> Otherwise, I'll be in London most days I think.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Ever written any tips on screencasting?
  <popey> nah, they're mostly in my head
  <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - ta.
  <popey> anything specific you were after?
  <aptanet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Not really. I have a new module for vtiger  I want to screencast.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks aptanet
  <popey> that page is old and outdated
  <aptanet> by popey ;)
  <aptanet> yes, the three on your blog are a bit old too
   * popey brainstorms
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I was just going to write some script notes first then do it.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> On a clean desktop
  <aptanet> I've found Kazam better than record my desktop
  <aptanet> although it is prone to stopping responding I find
  <popey> http://beta.etherpad.org/p/screencasting
  <popey> lets go!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> That etherpad keeps dropping out.
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <popey> strange, fine here
  <TheOpenSourcerer> It's OK now seemingly.
  <awilkins> Not having problems
  <diplo> I still love watching multiple edits on documents, its the future :)
  <aptanet> when you're thinking about typing something and it appears from somewhere else if fun!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice, one of our VMs has a Load Avg of 68 :-)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> bloody apache and WP again.
  <popey> hah
   * popey hugs lighttpd
   * Laney looks down and sees that his top is on inside out and backwards
  <popey> bug 1103638
  <lubotu3> bug 1103638 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "software updater window spacing wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103638
  <diplo> lol one is bad, 2 is well...
  <diplo> :P
  <popey> anyone else notice that?
  <popey> after you update on raring
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
  <diplo> OCD kicking in again popey :)
   * diplo is debating writing a phone app..
   * JamesTait really should update to Raring. Maybe over the weekend.
  <diplo> Any one here tried writing one yet apart from sil ?
  <davmor2> JamesTait: morning dude
  <JamesTait> Howzit davmor2! :)
  <hoover> hi folks
  <knightwise> hey hoover
  <timp> Hi, I tried to install 10.04 from dvd on external optical drive on a MacBook Pro, last years (non-retina) model. It nearly worked: i even heard the little drum role, but the screen remained completely blank.
  <timp> Any suggestions?
  <knightwise> 10.04 ?
  <timp> yes
  <knightwise> 12.04 works out of the box.
  <timp> Doh, sorry, 12.04
  <timp> Nope#
  <knightwise> http://maketecheasier.com/install-ubuntu-12-10-in-macbook-air/2012/11/08
  <knightwise> thats odd.
  <knightwise> are you using the amd/mac iso ?
  <timp> The standard amd iso
  <timp> thanks for the link, I will try again tonight.
  <knightwise> could be a no-acpi settins in grub
  <knightwise> i had that problem too
  <knightwise> if you hit me up on facebook or google+ i"ll get you in touch with one of my listeners who had the same problem.
  <einonm> timp: If the drumroll sounds, it may well just be the display settings - CTRL-ALT-F1 may get you a prompt to login
  <timp> einonm: thanks
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <popey> yo
  <brobostigon> morning popey
  <bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
  <brobostigon> morning bigcalm_laptop
  <bigcalm_laptop> Hi brobostigon
  <brobostigon> ok, lets say. i used get-iplayer, to download something to my rpi, how would you stream that from there to another machine on the same network, whith the rpi being headless ?
  <gord> smbfs? ssh+ftp?
  <diplo> I have a similar setup, albeit a microserver and yeah as gord says I stick it in a samba share
  <diplo> and point xbmc in my case to said samba share
  <TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: dlna, rygel?
  <gord> is what i do, i've also used a upnp setup in the past too, which worked well and something i want to explore in the future but xbmc was a bit buggy with it at the time
  <brobostigon> two questions, will it download the whole file before playback? and how can i get it to do that without having to download said file wholly or partially first ?
  <TheOpenSourcerer> dlna/upnp I think is a proper streaming service.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> It works on my TV from my home server.
  <brobostigon> ok, let me make notes, and research those possibilities.
  <gord> it won't download the whole file before playback, unless your video player is beyond terrible
  <TheOpenSourcerer> If you are using a Pi though you probably don't want to do real-time encoding ;-)
   * bigcalm_laptop pokes gord
  <brobostigon> gord: ok, i just remeber some attempts at this before. doing that,
   * bigcalm_laptop pokes mrevell
  <gord> only thing i have seen download the whole file before playback is a sftp filesystem extension for windows that would download the files to a temporary directory before letting the thing open it
   * gord is poked
  <mrevell> AH, hey bigcalm_laptop. I got back late from a meet-up in Manchester last night so I'm still at home. Are you all there?
  <brobostigon> gord: ah,
  <bigcalm_laptop> mrevell: davmor2 and myself are here
  <bigcalm_laptop> mrevell: you're welcome to join us
  <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: good point, yes.
  <davmor2> mrevell: yeah come you can tell us all about your new job and the globe trotting that you are doing :)
  <mrevell> heh :)
  <brobostigon> minidlna seems a good candidate, for what i am looking for.
  <bigcalm_laptop> Is that the mysql drop in replacement?
  <bigcalm_laptop> Oh, maybe not. I think I'm still a little tired today
  <SuperMatt> no, you're thinking of maria
  <SuperMatt> the only thing that's stopping me from dropping postgres on unsuspecting asses over here is bloody wordpress
  <SuperMatt> though I guess if I can prove that wordpress works fine with maria, then I might be able to convince the devs to make the switch
  <bigcalm_laptop> SuperMatt: drizzle is another drop in replacement for mysql
  <SuperMatt> considering that fedora 19 may go maria (if it ever gets out of the door), and it's being developed by formers mysql devs, maria might be the better option
  <SuperMatt> hah, silly me
  <SuperMatt> the maria db wikipedia page says wordpress is "officially supported"
  <SuperMatt> I'm just going to have a look around to see where I can find that "official" confirmation
  <SuperMatt> brilliant, zend support it too, so I could move everything across the maria 10
  <SuperMatt> or just keep maria for wordpress and use postgres for everything else
  <hoover> Should be ok to use maria as it's a drop-in binary replacement for mysql
  <SuperMatt> well, currently it is ;)
  <SuperMatt> I don't imagine that if maria and mysql were no longer compatible that wordpress would stop working
  <SuperMatt> it's not like wordpress sites need to worry about transactions, etc
  <brobostigon> what the best format for videos to be in, so that dlna can playback and stream them properly ?
  <brobostigon> btw, i got minidlna up and running properly, :)
  <popey> i dont think dnla cares
  <popey> the client might
  <brobostigon> hmm, get-iplayer and minidlna end, it is a .flv
  <popey> h264 seems to be the codec of choice which plays on most things
  <popey> flv is the container
  <brobostigon> ok.
  <popey> what's inside it?
  <popey> get_iplayer usually converts .flv to .mp4 when it finishes iirc
  <brobostigon> how do i find out from cli ?
  <popey> mplayer will tell you
  <Azelphur> doesn't iplayer serve mp4 as it's high quality option?
  <brobostigon> it didnt convert it to mp4 for some reason.
  <popey> do you have libav/ffmpeg installed?
  <popey> if not it wont
  <gord> most things that can play h264 can also play flv though
  <brobostigon> popey: ah, ok. let me try again then.
  <popey> Selected video codec: [ffh264] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg H.264)
  <popey> Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AC-3)
  <popey> for example is what you might get from mplayer
  <brobostigon> i have installed ffmpeg now, so will try and pull a different video off iplayer, and see whats happens.
  <popey> or just manually convert one you already have
  <popey> i think get_iplayer just changes the container, not the internal codecs
  <brobostigon> i will have to do that yes.
  <brobostigon> ah.
  <popey> what are you playing them with?
  <popey> i.e. what frontend?
  <brobostigon> mediahouse on my nexus7. is the first client i tried.
  <einonm> gord: watch out though, flv is a container, whereas h.264 is a video codec, so there is quite a difference
  <popey> https://www.theyetee.com/
  <popey> oops
  <brobostigon> spoton popey , ffmpeg was the problem.
  <popey> cool
  <brobostigon> WOOP
  <brobostigon> it is working really quite well. i am impressed.
  <knightwise> hey popey brobostigon
  <brobostigon> hey knightwise
  <knightwise> hmm.. i'm using the nxfree nomachine client / server
  <knightwise> but it doesnt seem to like unity very much :(
  <brobostigon> i wonder, if there is an risk of the rpi overheating and burning,? hmmm,
  <knightwise> is there still an lts supported version without unity (with standard gnome ?)
  <knightwise> or has that also gone the way of the dodo ?
  <brobostigon> standard gnome is there is the repos, and i beleieve there is a gnome-ubuntu remix.
  <knightwise> standard gnome  ? but thats gnome 3 ..right ?
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <knightwise> hmm.. dunno if the Nomachine client likes that any better
  <diplo> knightwise: xfce ?
  <knightwise> sure ,b ut then you need to hack some preferences into the nxclient and i've tried several things.
  <BigRedS> I'm after an XMPP client that supports a few different accounts being configured, but lets me treat them separately, anyone know of any?
  <BigRedS> so (easy) different statuses/messages for each, ideally separate contact lists. I'm thinking basically Pidgin's interface but tabbed...
  <knightwise> BigRedS: Centerim ?
  <BigRedS> knightwise: oooh, perhaps. Hadn't considered text-mode.
  <BigRedS> thansk!
  <BigRedS> haha, you can judge software's maintenance activity by which woman is in the photo in the background of the screenshot...
  <knightwise> ah , i got it
  <awilkins> BigRedS, Are we saying the maintenance is inversely proportional to how attractive the screenshot people are?
  <knightwise> need to specify what desktop the nomachine client should launch
  <knightwise> works nog
  <knightwise> now
  <awilkins> BigRedS, ie ; super hot - obv. rubbish software being covered up by glitz?
  <knightwise> whow
  <knightwise> remote desktop with NXclient (running XFCE on the far end) is FAST !
  <BigRedS> awilkins: haha, nah just which woman is in the background. Though I'm not sure who it would be now...
  <knightwise> what screenshot are you referring to ?
  <BigRedS> http://www.centerim.org/index.php/File:Centerim-screenshot.png
  <awilkins> An old shot of Alysson Hannigan
  <awilkins> From this we can infer the software is maintained by people who liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer
  <knightwise> aah the allison hannigan wallpaper ?
   * knightwise had big time nerd crush on her
  <knightwise> and i still think she's hot
  <knightwise> had her on my wallpaper for a long time.
  <knightwise> Currently boasting artwork from "the mad shipyards" (google to find out)
  <awilkins> She gets hotter as time goes on, if anything
  <knightwise> indeed
  <knightwise> do i like her in ginger more then in dark brown
  <awilkins> Her turn in "How I Met Your Mother" is nothing short of inspired
  <dwatkins> Gillian Anderson is awesome
  <knightwise> gillian anderson ?
  <awilkins> X-Files Scully
  <dwatkins> yeah awilkins
  <knightwise> oh Skully
  <awilkins> I had the issue of FHM that was trading for Â£10 a copy on ebay
  <dwatkins> Karin Gillian isn't bad either, can you detect a theme?
  <knightwise> yeah .. she's like the big sis everybody wanted as a kid
  <awilkins> The one with Gillian Anderson in her underwear
  <knightwise> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CHlMXEsEMkY/UNQOSoSLYII/AAAAAAAAAyc/DVc3N2UBPzM/s1600/gillian_anderson_4.jpg
  <knightwise> sooo pretty
  <knightwise> cool :) Lxde remote desktop is lightning fast :)
  <SuperMatt> I would love if someone in canonical worked on a proper rdp contender for linux
  <BigRedS> ssh -x
   * BigRedS doesn't use rdp
  <SuperMatt> I know we have x-forwarding, but it's not the same as having a whole desktop running quite fast
  <SuperMatt> and I mean faster than vnc too
  <SuperMatt> I had to work from home on monday and vnc was painful
  <dwatkins> NX and VNC are fine for what I need
  <AlanBell> SuperMatt: I suspect someone will do something with wayland
  <AlanBell> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_8
  <knightwise> SuperMatt: you need to connect to a windows machine ?
  <knightwise> I am currently using NXFree , but thats not realy an 'remote desktop' client
  <knightwise> more of a terminal server one
  <knightwise> ha : )
  <knightwise> used NXfree to connect to a virtual machine i'm running at home
  <knightwise> virtual machine is also running with another user logged in
  <knightwise> using vnc to connect to the other X session of that user :)
  <dwatkins> I often use NX to remote control my machine at home, especially as it has less port restrictions than the office network
  <SuperMatt> knightwise: no, not connecting to windows.
  <SuperMatt> RDP just seems to do remote displays way better than vnc
  <SuperMatt> xfordwarding is nice for the odd app or two, but it can't replace being able to access your hole desktop
  <awilkins> I think there's an RDP server for Linux somewhere, when I mention it here people link it
  <awilkins> http://www.xrdp.org/
   * SuperMatt nods
  <SuperMatt> I've never managed to get that to load unity though
  <SuperMatt> could just be me
  <knightwise> SuperMatt: i know you'll swear at me but .. teamviewer isn't so bad
  <SuperMatt> maybe I should just try xrdp when I get home
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: Thank-you once again for sending me a 12.10 DVD that you had spare (plenty for for anyone interested) .. As I recently had an email from Amazon.us about the reality of buying one ... Â£5 is nothing when you thnk about it .... :: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Ubuntu%20DVD%20..%20the%20reality%20of%20getting%20UBUNTU%20on%20DVD.PNG
  <AlanBell> wow, always amazes me how many people sell them
  <solarcloud_3srcn> 2 people, if you look, so far .. but your right, Prob.ly more ..
  <popey> not a single ubuntu thinkpad on amazon
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ebay, dr watson, ebay ..
  <solarcloud_3srcn> su. from Hollande..
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **usu. from ...
  <AlanBell> novatech do nice laptops popey :)
  <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/user/NovatechLTD/videos?query=ubuntu
  <solarcloud_3srcn> still got yours to sell ?? :D
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I saw Alan Lord's tweet pic.. v. nice.
  <AlanBell> not selling it, that is aptanet's laptop now :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> cool, surethingy.
  <aptanet> and it's getting well used!
  <popey> If it doesn't have a touchpoint it's not a proper laptop
  <popey> so it's thinkpad or dell latitude for me now
  <solarcloud_3srcn> aptanet: You are darling of new tech. How's the getdeb download's , or haven't you bothered ???
  <aptanet> getdeb downloads?
  <aptanet> not looked at them, and the site is offline at the moment - power outage!
  <solarcloud_3srcn> https://plus.google.com/+getdeb/posts/FF1gRuZN7pM
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AKA PlayDeb ..
  <dragonkeeper> http://tinyurl.com/b8lfupt
  <AlanBell> don't spam us with affiliate links dragonkeeper
  <solarcloud_3srcn> dragonkeeper: gifgaff is an information controller from ebay .. stay away !!
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Wonder's if that advert would still be an affiliate link if it was on www.archive.org (or whatever the way-back machine is) ??
   * solarcloud_3srcn     "     "   "
   * solarcloud_3srcn alsowonders if PlayDeb's archive is ready for the way-back machine ??
  <AlanBell> on irclogs.ubuntu.com we add rel=nofollow to the links so you don't get google pagerank from spamming junk into the channels
  <solarcloud_3srcn> logical.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> \o/ Hello Ginger Thurs.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Time for *free* beer dregg's http://goo.gl/1L2YW
  <dwatkins> dregg's what? ;)
  <popey> reminds me, must make some more ginger beer
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Soz ,to many g's http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/dreg
  <andrewebdev> I've just finished setting up for myself a new pc, and I'm wondering if it's possible to just copy my private ssh key to the new computer, from my old laptop, or should I generate a new one?
  <brobostigon> another question, what controls inside dlna, the quality of playback on the client ? is it directly the source video quality?
  <popey> andrewebdev: is your old laptop being decommissioned?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: Well, at least the #channel is going, at last, today .. thanx everyone.
  <andrewebdev> popey, I am planning to still use it
  <popey> if so, I'd copy ~/.ssh over, if not, and you're keeping both machines, I'd create a new one
  <andrewebdev> ok thx
  <popey> so if you lose one machine (or it gets stolen or compromised) you can remove that one key from remote machines and keep the safe one
  <andrewebdev> ah i see that makes sense yes
  <einonm1> brobostigon: I'm not sure if dlna dlna adaptive streaming
  <andrewebdev> ta :)
  <einonm1> ...dlna has adaptive streaming
  <brobostigon> einonm1: so it adjusts to the client ?
  <einonm1> to the link speed, if it is present. As I said, I'm not sure if DLNA does that.
  <brobostigon> einonm1: ok, thank you,
  <einonm1> basically, it first tests if it can shove the best quality stream down the pipe - if it can't it tries the next best etc.
  <brobostigon> ah, i see.
  <einonm1> but you need either multiple streams of different quality, or (like on blu-ray) a codec that can cope with adaptive bitrates
  <brobostigon> good point,
  <popey> brobostigon: what client are you using?
  <brobostigon> popey: mediahouse on android 4.2.1
  <popey> any good?
  <brobostigon> not bad, weird menu system, but seems to work well enough,
  <brobostigon> it was simply the first one i found, so i choose it by chance.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: Pre-loved.Do they ever stop with the Adverts ? Prob.ly not  http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/list?keyword=thinkpad
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Is is daftykins or dwatkins , but it looks like my Co-op a/c in St Peters Port 'aint that good anymore   http://www.isleofman.com/News/details/52423/island-signs-tax-co-operation-agreements-with-jersey-and-guernsey
  <popey> daftykins is an islander
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: Fair enough, I'll talk to him later when he see's the post .. thanx popey.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Note to diaspora, *don't worry* it's mostly the Esther-Louise-Rantzen types that live here ... http://goo.gl/b2Jt0
  <aptanet> getting slightly annoyed with this wireless card dropping connection seemingly randomly
  <aptanet> each time I have to disable and re-enable wireless to authenticate again :(
  <solarcloud_3srcn> aptanet: Just outta interest has the novatech laptop/ultrabook gotta Wireless disable screen option in the Bios, like dell's has ?? http://goo.gl/rZKkF . Just askin'     .
  <aptanet> good question, without rebooting I'm not sure!
  <solarcloud_3srcn> aptanet: Crumb.s .. hope I've not started anything, Oh dear.
  <popey> aptanet: which wireless device is it?
  <aptanet> not sure about the BIOS, but there's a hotkey on the keyboard - and it works
  <aptanet> Ralink corp. Device 3290
  <aptanet> I've had to update the kernel and install firmware to get it working
  <aptanet> that said, my netbook does exactly the same thing with the stock kernel and an express card nic
  <popey> aptanet: 12.10?
  <aptanet> popey, yes
  <solarcloud_3srcn> http://h-node.org/search/results/en/1/search/wifi/Ralink
  <solarcloud_3srcn> @seen daftykins
   * solarcloud_3srcn just forgot who to ask to 'see' ppl's last sighting since absence ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: thoughts on above Question. ??
  <AlanBell> sorry, which question, I wasn't paying attention
  <AlanBell> and I am off out now
  <AlanBell> ping me with a question and I will see it
  <solarcloud_3srcn> no prob.s.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Laura Boyle â Mitchelstown http://open.spotify.com/track/6W5SZHPJ9reZ9kLhBZ7Mv9  Awaiting bigcalm 's arrival...
  <cocoa117> when using nfsv4 to export filesystem to linux client. does the locally bind filesystem automatically export?
  <cocoa117> e.g. /media/pool/family on /srv/sto/home/pans/multimedia type none (rw,bind)
  <cocoa117> so when i exports /srv/sto/home as root to clients, do i get access to the /meida/pool/family folder?
  <MartijnVdS> I have no idea.. what happened when you tried? ;)
  <MartijnVdS> hm
  <MartijnVdS> Bug 1085342 is getting annoying
  <lubotu3> bug 1085342 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "Pulseaudio applications hang (Totem, GNOME Shell etc.)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085342
  <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: co-op in St. Peter Port? huh?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Ignorance is bliss ! But there is an ethical bank in .. I'll PM'd you...
  <daftykins> roger that
  <bigcalm> Evening peeps
  <brobostigon> evening bigcalm
  <bigcalm> What am I missing out on by doing work rather than IRC during the day time?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> bigcalm: Mostly Links from your UrlGrabber :: http://www.redbubble.com/people/robbrown/works/8613327-ubuntu-linux-for-human-beings
  <bigcalm> My url grabber?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Sorry I use Xchat ...
  <bigcalm> That's nothing to be ashamed of ;)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Yeah, If only I could figure women out too ! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/understanding%20women%20book.jpg
  <directhex> http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/594741935758161354/659E25E17B1F8C8BC58459B1288B19F95A6AF7AE/
  <popey> wossat?
  <Azelphur> half life 1 :P
  <directhex> popey, hl1, just released for linux and osx
  <directhex> as in 11 minutes ago
  <Azelphur> WHAT
   * Azelphur downloads hard.
  <popey> hah
  <Azelphur> aww, I only have half life source.
  <directhex> steam steam://install/70
  <solarcloud_3srcn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaF5O5Mzi9E&list=PLcrbfJq0A8FltP69pumdih1X0VQMb7adq
  <Azelphur> yea just takes me to the buy page
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I remember a lot of this :: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Half%20Life%20Loading%20Bar.PNG
  <directhex> solarcloud_3srcn, then you're a youngun. there was no bar like that in pre-steam half-life
  <directhex> remember, this is a game from 1998
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mmmmphf .... '98 tech .. What's the big deal about then ??
  <cambrianExplosio> Hi everyone, is anyone using Ubuntu on a Macbook here?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> not me ..
  <directhex> well, there was no steam. half-life came instead with "sierra utilities". which had a minor bug whereby it would delete all your files when you uninstalled it
  <directhex> half-life patch day was hell. a 45-meg patch on 28.8k dialup was lame
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Sounds familiar.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mmmmhpf .... '98 tech .. What's the big deal about *today* ,then ??
  <directhex> solarcloud_3srcn, well, it's been ported to linux and osx, and released within the last hour
  <directhex> part of why that's interesting is a) steam for mac came out years ago, yet never saw ports of hl1-based games, and b) the rather messy history of the unreleased osx port
  <solarcloud_3srcn> screw this |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| I'm seeing what www.phoronix.com says ...
  <popey> that's an interesting point directhex, I hadn't considered that.
  <popey> we're up to what? 60+ Linux games on steam now?
  <directhex> popey, fully working, or in the CDR?
  <popey> both?
  <directhex> 45 and 84 respectively
  <directhex> YMMV. IANAL. IDDQD.
  <directhex> i have 53 of them
  <popey> nice
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-25
  <solarcloud_3srcn> YMMV means "Your Mileage May Vary" , IANAL means "I Am Not A Lawyer (this is an uninformed opinion)" IDDQD means "Cheat code for Doom" , err OK . directhex, Your obviously not a bowler.
  <BigRedS> In answer to my earlier questiond, mdadm -D /dev/mdX has the state of each member at the bottom
  <solarcloud_3srcn> directhex: phoronix.com retorts ::  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzE
  <solarcloud_3srcn> With over a dozen comments so far ::: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?77091-Valve-Pushes-Out-Half-Life-For-Linux#post308374
  <Azelphur> valve has originally ported their original half life original title original to linux original.
  <popey> Azelphur: and cs:source by the look of it
  <Azelphur> :o
  <Azelphur> this is a good day.
  <Azelphur> even though my boiler has apparently died and the house is getting cold, this is still a good day.
  <Azelphur> xD
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: fire up half life.. have your GPU keep you warm ;)
  <knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
  <knightwise> you are up early
  <diplo> Morning
  <knightwise> hey directhex
  <knightwise> hey diplo
  <kvarley> Can anybody recommend a good RAW viewer? I don't want an editor or album manager, just a viewer like the default image viewer does for JPGs, etc in Ubuntu
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: rawtherapee?
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: or, if you set the default viewer to "Shotwell viewer" you just get the viewer part of shotwell
  <MartijnVdS> not the manager bits
  <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ok ty
  <kvarley> Another question, is it possible to use VirtualBox to install Ubuntu on an actual hard drive? /dev/sdc for example? I have a netbook that is a problem and need some bootable OS to test it with
  <kvarley> Loading from USB on this model is being awkward
  <popey> being awkward how?
  <kvarley> popey: The system goes really slow after 5 mins last time I tried it
  <kvarley> I think the CPU may have overheated in the past
  <kvarley> It was a while ago tho so I need to try USB again really
  <AlanBell> morning all
  <TheOpenSourcerer> mornign all.
   * TheOpenSourcerer has produced a screencast. Would like AlanBell to review it before going public...
  <popey> morning
  <popey> never seen that kvarley
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for the etherpad stuff popey that was useful.
  <popey> np
  <knightwise> hey popey TheOpenSourcerer
  <TheOpenSourcerer> wotcha knightwise
  <kvarley> popey: Checked  the HDD still works, that is fine. Reassembling the netbook then gonna try booting Ubuntu via a SATA CD drive
  <knightwise> Netbooks are cool :)
  <knightwise> did this weeks podcast on "bringing your netbook back to life'
  <kvarley> knightwise: Netbooks are dead lol
  <kvarley> knightwise: I just figure if I can make this one work I can give it to a relative
  <kvarley> Surprising amount of dust in this one considering it was so tightly sealed
  <knightwise> kvarley: i disagree http://knightwise.com/kw503-return-of-the-netbook/
  <knightwise> Been using one as my main 'portable thin client' for the last week.
  <knightwise> loving it so far!
  <einonm> I tried putting Ubuntu server 11.10 on my netbook last week - just hung there after I filled in all the forms at the start. So it's still on life support...
  <directhex> counter-strike 1.6 for linux too. fancy.
  <kvarley> directhex: Has that been added too? I'm really hoping for CS:GO
  <directhex> kvarley, half-added. requires badgers to run
  <kvarley> directhex: hehe ok
  <directhex> kvarley, http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/178xsx/native_counterstrike_16_on_steam_for_linux/
  <kvarley> Taking this netbook has made me realise a few things. 1) Netbook ribbon cables are actually sensibly placed. 2) Netbooks shouldn't be opened. 3) Only 1 fan in the whole netbook for the GPU is stupid
  <kvarley> directhex: Thanks, I may have to try this out
  <popey> directhex: i don't have a beta tab in properties of CS:Source
  <directhex> popey, where did i say CS:Source?
  <popey> ignore me
  <kvarley> popey: It lives ... sort of
  <kvarley> I'm booting from live USB
  <kvarley> The netbook is held together with about 30 screws but none of them are actually needed. Everything snaps into place
  <popey> which netbook?
  <kvarley> Asus 1201N
  <popey> oh, thats similar to wifeys 1008HA
  <popey> I say "wifeys" she hasn't touched it in a year or more
  <kvarley> hehe
  <kvarley> I didn't miss this fan noise one bit
  <kvarley> Think this was one of the first to get nvidias ION tech in it
  <rowinggolfer> built a server yesterday. 2*1TB drives in raid 10 configuration. Followed the howto here. https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/advanced-installation.html
  <rowinggolfer> really, really good documentation :)
  <rowinggolfer> 5 year support was the differentiator for me.
  <rowinggolfer> ie.. there are still many things that canonical are doing right.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got any experience with sakis3g?
  <rowinggolfer> never heard of it.. and I can't get to http://www.sakis3g.org/
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <rowinggolfer> morning brobostigon
  <brobostigon> morning rowinggolfer
  <directhex> rowinggolfer, 2 drives in raid10?
  <knightwise> got a little grub question here
  <knightwise> anyone in ?
  <dwatkins> no, they're all having a snowball fight
  <andylockran> morning
  <knightwise> morning
  <knightwise> i'm installing ubuntu on my macbook and doing the manual partitioning thing
  <knightwise> ive got an Ssd drive (sda)
  <knightwise> i just created a root partition and a home partition
  <directhex> dual-booting the macbook or not?
  <knightwise> it has placed them on SDa1 and SDA2
  <knightwise> Single booting
  <knightwise> no dual boot
  <knightwise> now it leaves 1 megabyte of free space on SDA
  <knightwise> (donno why)
  <knightwise> question is : Where do i install grub
  <knightwise> /dev/sda or /dev/sda1 ?
  <andylockran> knightwise: I used refit for mac
  <knightwise> yeah , but in order to install refit you need to install osx first
  <andylockran> and installed grub to the partition, rather than to the disk
  <andylockran> ah, ok
  <knightwise> ok, but can you install refit without osx ?
  <knightwise> because when I boot , I just get a blinkin cursor
  <knightwise> so i have the feeling the grub isnt doing anything or isnt even working.
  <knightwise> So do i install grub to /sda (which is one megabyte, empty space)
  <knightwise> or to /sda1 where i have my / partition ?
  <andylockran> sounds like you need to have a mini OSX partition on there
  <knightwise> smells like it.
  <knightwise> perhaps do a 10 gig osx install.. and then go with Refit ?
  <andylockran> yeah, I just read a recommendation of 10-15GB for the OSX partition
  <andylockran> as youll need it for firmware updates to the macbook too
  <knightwise> yeah , i thought about that too
  <knightwise> its that , i only have a 128 ssd
  <knightwise> so i would like to keep the osx footprint to a minimum
  <andylockran> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=925992
  <directhex> at this point i'm super concerned about your setup
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <directhex> macs don't use BIOS booting, they expect a GPT-partitioned disk with an EFI boot partition
  <knightwise> holdon
  <directhex> whether you also have a shadow MBR table as well is a secondary issue
  <knightwise> installer is telling me i should install a 35 meg efi boot partition first ! :)
  <andylockran> I have read that grub2 were working on a open source 'bless' for EFI
  <knightwise> so i think i have to put the bootloader in there
  <knightwise> ok , giving it a whirl
  <knightwise> the workaround i have is that i use an osx installer disk to do the firmware updates :)
  <andylockran> that'd work
  <rowinggolfer> directhex, yes.
  <rowinggolfer> directhex, it appears counter intuitive, but raid10 < raid 5
  <knightwise> directhex: super concerned ?  about me ?
  <knightwise> hmmm
  <knightwise> there is a shadow table there somewhere
  <knightwise> now the mac says it cannot find a bootable os
  <directhex> rowinggolfer, raid10 needs 4 disks.
  <knightwise> ok , going the other route
  <knightwise> installing a 20 gig OSX partition and using Refit
  <rowinggolfer> directhex, that's a common configuration, but 2 disks is the minimum.
  <directhex> that doesn't make any sense
  <directhex> raid 0 is striping data across 2 or more disks. raid 1 is mirroring data across 2 or more disks. unless you're doing partition-level mirroring or striping which is, well, stupid since it'll decrease performance not increase it
  <rowinggolfer> I'm not looking for performance.
  <rowinggolfer> but redundancy.
  <shauno> then why add striping?
  <timp2> Hi, I am trying to install amd ubuntu 12.10 from external usb CD drive, it semed to be working, but screen went blank, now I have just had the little drum roll, but completely blank screen
  <timp2> Ctrl Alt F1 does nothing
  <timp2> Sorry, on an 18month old macbookPro
  <directhex> rowinggolfer, then what on earth does using partition-level raid 0 gain you, other than complexity and another layer of potential failure?
  <knightwise> hey timp
  <knightwise> did you use refit ?
  <timp2> hi knightwise
  <timp2> efi ?
  <knightwise> are you singlebooting  or dual booting ?
  <rowinggolfer> directhex, to be honest, I dunno. I'll need to revisit this.
  <timp2> dual booting,
  <knightwise> have you installed REFIT on your OSX os
  <knightwise> that will help you to dual boot
  <timp2> yes, I think so,
  <knightwise> did you take a look at the howto i sent you yesterday ?
  <knightwise> http://maketecheasier.com/install-ubuntu-12-10-in-macbook-air/2012/11/08
  <timp2> yes, and that was pretty much what I did originally
  <knightwise> ok
  <knightwise> ubuntu try this
  <timp2> though I am trying from a usb DVD
  <knightwise> its an old hawto but it has to do with your grub settyings
  <knightwise> wait , have you installed it yet ? or just trying to boot from the livce cd  ?
  <timp2> I suspect it is the video firmware, possibly due to it having been updatd.
  <knightwise>  seems that something in the Macbook power management causes a kernel panic, so youâll need to run the installer with the ânoapicâ option (press space at the splash screen, then F6). Note: you may need to reboot several times, as the installer may kernel panic before you have the option to set ânoapicâ. Also, note that the wifi wonât work (weâll fix this in the next step), so donât try to install updates during the inst
  <knightwise> Once the installation finishes, youâll need to boot up with the noapic option (press âeâ in GRUB and add it to the kernel parameters, right next to âsplashâ and âquietâ), and then add it permanently once youâve booted up. You can find detailed directions for both of these steps in the Ubuntu guide for Kernel Boot Parameters
  <knightwise> See step 4 of this manual : http://cberner.com/2012/07/10/installing-ubuntu-12-04-on-macbook-pro-retina/
  <timp2> knightwise: thanks, looks like I need to blockout a bit more time than I have this minute, but thanks, I will read those and start again when I get back
  <knightwise> no worries , good lucj !
  <kvarley> I just ran updates and my xorg conf got wiped because I have manually installed AMD graphics drivers. Will restoring the xorg conf work or will I also have to add the kernel modules again? I'm not sure if my kernel got updated or not
  <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Nice vid :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> thanks diplo
  <TheOpenSourcerer> For others if they are interested: Gelocation for vtiger CRM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1FxiADQpsU
  <diplo> May have to integrate something like that for our erp system now :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> What's your ERP?
  <diplo> Called chalice, we're re-writing our text based one to web based
  <popey> "standing on the shoulders of others... and all that" :D
  <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - got that a b it wrong but couldn't be bothered to go back
  <diplo> Trying to make it stand out from the text/console one by adding features that we can't do in the old one
  <directhex> rowinggolfer, if you're using RAID0 across partitions on the same drive, i.e. sda1 and sda2 are raid0'd, sdb1 and sdb2 are raid0'd, and md0 and md1 are raid1'd, then you'll actually gain less than nothing - you'll decrease performance compared to just using flat raid1, as all sequential disk reads/writes larger than the raid0 stripe size are no longer sequential, they're random (as the disk needs to bounce between stripes on both partition
  <directhex> s)
   * popey hugs btrfs RAID1
   * popey dreams of btrfs RAID5
   * brobostigon checks to make sure the stats are working properly.
   * davmor2 checks popey 's meds, you should be tripping the the light fantastic not dreaming sysadmin dreams.......
  <brobostigon> yep, looks good, :)
  <brobostigon> oh dear, are the bbc going to trash daily politics for the tennis now.
  <directhex> anyone have a use for 2 months of lovefilm?
  <brobostigon> lovefilm, umm, never tried it.
  <dwatkins> I use it, it's not too bad.
  <kvarley> dwatkins: Lame that there is no android client tho
  <kvarley> Being silverlight and all
  <Azelphur> hmm, think my boiler has bit the dust, :(
  <Azelphur> it fails to turn on and makes a high pitched whistling sound
  <directhex> i've got a few 2-month-free new customer discount codes
  <rowinggolfer> directhex, I follow your logic. thanks.
  <rowinggolfer> directhex, my choice was swayed by http://www.acronis.co.uk/resource/tips-tricks/2005/whats-raid-10.html
  <rowinggolfer> biab - gonna get some lunch. need a good one today as haggis for dinner ;)
  <constrictor> how do i find out what graphics card I'm running from the command line
  <daftykins> lspci
  <directhex> lspci | grep VGA
  <constrictor> thanks daftykins
  <daftykins> just had two synology NAS' turn up along with 4 x 2TB WD Reds :)
  <directhex> daftykins, for RAID10? :p
  <daftykins> lol no
  <daftykins> two separate two bay units
  <daftykins> amusingly these are backups for RAIDs
  <daftykins> just had to phone verified by visa due to a rejection ordering something from a website
  <daftykins> 'we haven't got enough trained advisors right now, we can give you a call back in 30 mins'
  <daftykins> nice
  <daftykins> heh these little Synology NAS' are cute :>
  <dwatkins> daftykins: agreed, I'm considering getting a DS413j
  <dwatkins> the interface is pretty good, it seems to run a linux, and they're not too pricey
  <dwatkins> also, loads of plug 'n play applications for them
  <daftykins> :)
  <daftykins> got a couple of the super basic 212j's for some clients backup
  <daftykins> just fitted the drives, powered on and installed the OS over the network
  <daftykins> very neat web UI
  <daftykins> and off it goes creating the RAID1 setup :>
  <daftykins> ext4 is its' poison
  <popey> \o/ btrfs
  <gord> \o/ whatever we use by default because i'm too lazy to use anything else
  <mgdm> \o/ ext3
   * mgdm avoids btrfs
  <daftykins> it's checking all the sectors now, i like this
  <davmor2> mgdm: ext4 I think you'll find is the default :P
  <popey> mgdm: wuss!
  <mgdm> I've not formatted a partition in ages, so defaults don't matter :)
  <BigRedS> I kep meaning to have a fiddle with btrfs, but I don't have a large body of data that I'm not that fussed about
  <BigRedS> actually, I just don't have that much data...
  <popey> /dev/sdc         22T   13T  8.2T  62% /srv
  <popey> thats my btrfs volume
  <rowinggolfer> is btrfs now on a par with zfs (functionality wise, not license etc..)
  <popey> quite impressed by the reliability of it now
  <SuperMatt> I've never gotten around to trying btrs, because every time I try to use it, I forget that I can't use it on /boot, get frustrated and then go back to ext4
  <BigRedS> haha, I love how many things still need a separate /boot. I'm still expecting it to become te norm to have a 2GB disk soldered tothe motherboard for /boot to live on
  <mgdm> disk? Flash :)
  <BigRedS> ah, yeah, I suppose
  <BigRedS> Oh yeah, we had some HPs (I think) with sd card slot on the board
  <BigRedS> Is there a synergy-alike that's better for simply conjoining two Linux PCs? I've not tried Synergy for some time, but wondered if there was some more native 'solution'
  <MartijnVdS> what's synergy? :)
  <daftykins> the one that forwards kb+mouse input over LAN
  <rowinggolfer> keylogging heaven.
  <daftykins> omg verified by visa is such rubbish
  <daftykins> rowinggolfer: not if you SSH tunnel it =]
  <BigRedS> ach, we're all friends here anyway
  <BigRedS> says he with the encrypted filesystem
  <daftykins> 0o
  <gord> i think fridays should be ubuntu-uk-synergy-party-friday, where we all connect to an internet synergy server and try and get work done when sharing one virtual mouse and keyboard
  <daftykins> that assumes work gets done without that!
  <Azelphur> Anyone know how I can stream microphone from my PC to my Laptop?#
  <brobostigon> vlc ?
  <Azelphur> yea I mean, an actual working example, I've been trying with vlc and various methods without luck
  <popey> pulse and gst both have networked audio
  <popey> questions
  <popey> bah
  <popey> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2715257/moving-audio-over-a-local-network-using-gstreamer
  <Azelphur> don't really wanna move audio, just wanna listen to the mic
  <brobostigon> pulseaudio could do that, pipe the microphone input on machineA, to speaker output on machineB.
  <brobostigon> can*
  <Azelphur> fun
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <popey> uhm
  <daftykins> that oh-so frequent of usecases ;)
   * davmor2 thinks Azelphur is setting up a budget recording studio
  <daftykins> nah it's just his dream to never have to leave his seat
  <daftykins> :>
  <Azelphur> I used mumble, made it work
  <gord> doesn't mumble compress the audio with speex? ie, be terrible for music?
  <Azelphur> that's ok I only want it to listen in and find out when my fire alarm stops going off
  <gord> oh okay
  <gord> not concerned about the fire?
  <gord> i'd be more worried about that
  <Azelphur> no fire
  <daftykins> doh, this second NAS didn't come with the screws D:
  <gord> you don't have a container full of thousands of random screws through years of computer owning?
  <daftykins> yep
  <daftykins> not the point though is it
  <gord> i think that is entirely the point of the container ;P
  <daftykins> your being facetious is entirely unwelcome
  <gord> i think i'm helping
  <daftykins> you're wrong
  <gord> i don't think thats possible
  <daftykins> no need to troll
  <popey> gord: have you tried this tack in a job interview yet? âº
  <popey> friend of mine did
  <popey> interviewer: what do you consider are your weaknesses?
  <popey> friend: I don't have any weaknesses
  <popey> i: isn't that arrogant?
  <popey> f: No, arrogance isn't one of my weaknesses
  <popey> zing!
  <daftykins> do you know the result?
  <popey> he didnt get the job
  <daftykins> XD
  <popey> colour me unsurprised
  <daftykins> sounds like it would've gone down well as the guy in Trainspotting's interview technique
  <mgdm> heheh
  <popey> directhex: oi! why does it say half life (beta) is not available on my platform?
  <popey> ooh, not watched trainspotting for years
   * popey queues it up
  <daftykins> heh
  <popey> watched inglorious basterds yesterday which was fun
  <daftykins> yeah that wasn't half bad
  <daftykins> bit o' scalpin'
  <gord> if anyone asks me what my weaknesses are i just walk out. you never expose your weakness. its called evolution - duh
  <popey> cant remember the last proper job interview I had
  <daftykins> most i've been to have been quite a joke
  <daftykins> one states (local government) woman kept saying she kept wanting to call me John after the Led Zeppelin drummer given my surname :(
  <daftykins> i nearly asked if it would help me get the job if i learnt the drums
  <daftykins> but i got it anyway \o/
  <daftykins> that was about 4 years ago now :O
  <gord> i don't think i've ever not gotten a job after an interview, plenty of failed applications but always managed to get the job once i got to the interview part. must be my winning personality/threats of violence
  <daftykins> could be
  <daftykins> bet that'd be a different story now though
  <daftykins> apparently most super mundane jobs locally have 25+ applicants
  <daftykins> bad time to be an interviewer
  <gord> yeah probably, haven't actually applied for a job for about 4 years
  <czajkowski> gord: do you bribe them with your odd sweets
   * daftykins starts on another creme egg
  <popey> ooh, sweets!
   * popey gets some
  <SuperMatt> sweets? This is how my office treated us today https://twitter.com/WCRS_LDN/status/294830796500512769/photo/1
  <czajkowski> JELLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
  <SuperMatt> this is a new weekly thing
  <SuperMatt> fridays are gonna be totes awesome from now on
  <daftykins> O_O
  <daftykins> SuperMatt: i'm applying :D
  <SuperMatt> I'm afraid I'm the only linux guy the company need
  <daftykins> i am not this
   * TheOpenSourcerer spies wine gums!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I had some fruit gums earlier :-)
   * brobostigon has jelly babies, :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh
   * TheOpenSourcerer notices it is approaching Friday evening.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Huuzaahhh
  <brobostigon> i can have them now, i couldnt because they had artificial colourings and preservatives in them.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Beer O'clock thrusts into view
  <daftykins> are you allergic to those?
  <brobostigon> :D
  <brobostigon> daftykins: some, yes.
  <daftykins> that sucks hard
  <brobostigon> definatly.
  <daftykins> glad i don't have to think about what i eat
  <gord> i saw creme eggs on the shelves like, 1st of january this year. at first i was completely outraged obviously, but then i realized that i can now eat a cream egg so that outrage went away quickly
  <brobostigon> daftykins: :)
  <daftykins> gord: same here, i mean why is Easter stuff stocked so early? makes zero sense
  <daftykins> but then mere seconds after that thought, OM NOM NOM CREME EGGS!
  <gord> its stocked early because easter stuff is delicious
  <daftykins> heh
  <daftykins> maybe they're applying genius supermarket sale techniques
  <daftykins> people are fat after Christmas and New Year, so in order to beat them to trying to lose that weight in the gym, provide more comfort junk food that they can guiltily stock up on
  <daftykins> genius plan
  <gord> i was thinking earlier that the only way supermarkets are going to be able to compete with amazon in the future is if they instigate something like amazons suggestions, ala you bought x, other people who bought x also bought y kind of thing. anyway the end result is that i should be allowed to go snooping through other peoples shopping whilst in the supermarket
  <daftykins> gord: you can do this by pretending to be a checkout staffer!
  <dwatkins> some people might consider that to be taking things a bit too far, especially considering some of the hilarious and tragic suggestions Amazon has made over the years
  <dwatkins> "you bought this book on C++? How about a book about some things a small minority of people do in the bedroom which aren't fit for discussion on an Ubuntu IRC channel?"
  <Azelphur> Anyone bored feel free to make suggestions on this: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130125084110AAPXJms
  <daftykins> dwatkins: how intrigueing
  <daftykins> trust me it's not picnic being a landlord
  <daftykins> but that's definitely taking the biscuit and possibly some of the cake too
  <daftykins> if you've scrutinised your contract, it might be best to officially pursue some action regarding that alarm
  <Azelphur> daftykins, yea, I'm really starting to get to that point, I've asked him nicely, sent recorded mail, etc
  <daftykins> Azelphur: does the phone never get answered?
  <daftykins> you could, although it'd suck, offer to be a key holder on site for the fire alarm in some way i guess
  <daftykins> but it sounds like they need to be relocated
  <Azelphur> daftykins, It's only ever answered once, out of around 30 calls.
  <daftykins> =/
  <daftykins> that's a joke
  <Azelphur> yep
  <Azelphur> think it might have finally stopped, brb going home xD
  <daftykins> the problem is of course that you have to stay nicey nicey otherwise they can only make it harder for you and you won't want to live there :(
  <daftykins> zomg Azelphur out of his chair D:
  <daftykins> historic moment
  <daftykins> ;)
  <Azelphur> there we go, back home
  <Azelphur> yea, I went to my brothers and listened on mumble for it to stop
  <Azelphur> daftykins: he's doing lots of other unacceptable stuff to, the summary is that the place is in a state of disrepair
  <Azelphur> right now I got no hot water or heating because the boiler is fucked, having to use electric fan heater to stay warm
  <daftykins> >_<
  <Azelphur> so yea, he's no doubt gonna be getting in trouble
  <daftykins> is there a boiler per property or shared per a #?
  <Azelphur> per property
  <daftykins> if you got no headway, you could probably claim some health and safety thing over the fire alarm misuse and noise issue
  <Azelphur> baring in mind I'm aspergers and noise sensitive, it makes the flat totally untenable
  <Azelphur> fire alarm goes off I just pick my laptop up and leave pretty much.
  <Azelphur> even for a normal person it'd be pretty bad, they are commercial grade sirens
  <daftykins> i used to wake up with a fright every Tuesday morning in Uni halls of residence as the test went off for a few seconds >_<
  <Azelphur> fun
  <Azelphur> the longest stint we've had is 6 hours, that one was a little over 2 hours
  <daftykins> cor la
  <Laney> no boiler> how long ago did you inform the landlord?
  <Azelphur> about 2 hours ago, via an answering machine on the "24/7 emergency line"
  <Laney> i have had good luck with the council's environmental health department before
  <bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
  <Laney> they'll come round and do a little inspection then light a fire if anything's wrong
  <Azelphur> fun
  <daftykins> well at least then, there really *IS* a fire :P
  <bigcalm> Anybody know if I can buy online with dell but have the invoice handled by my company, or do I have to do such things on the phone?
  <daftykins> shouldn't cost anything to go through the motions on the site
  <daftykins> though beware, once a phone number / email is in, the lovely outsourced individuals will be climbing over each other to try and get the sale
  <aptanet> solarcloud_3srcn, no sign of any wireless settings in the bios on the laptop - I remembered to check when I rebooted :)
  <daftykins> what kind of wireless settings 0o
  <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Saw this today :: http://manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/52461/chief-minister-briefing-2-  (3mins in)...
  <solarcloud_3srcn> SuperMatt: As Far As http://t.co/JAwXjoXC :::    .... it's called stodge.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> aptanet: never under.estimate the power of drop-box to put people in the picture of a bios system.
  <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: ruh-roh
  <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Take it that's a chortle lol, then ?
  <daftykins> nah it sounds a bit serious if that presenter is trying to suggest the Channel Islands of Jersey and Guernsey will be annoyed at the IoM's recent actions
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Unite the clans !!
  <AlanBell> nigelb: are you in London?
  <daftykins> i still don't really have a clue what it's all about
  <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: looks like your local news presenters are as annoying as ours
  <solarcloud_3srcn> It's basically an Americae institute FATCA (not sure of spelling there) .. kicking as$ outta the OECD smaller dominions .. but I must get a paper, Yes.
  <daftykins> i might have to visit the IoM some day, see what yet another rock is like
  <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: is the TT still held?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> yep. but accommodation is ike, couchsurfing :: intermitent.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **like
  <daftykins> hehe
  <daftykins> http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_aboutus1/
  <daftykins> look how daft ours look
  <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: Have you come across any interesting #-tags on twitter today ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
  <daftykins> i don't use twitter, i think it's a pile of @!#%^
  <solarcloud_3srcn> oh Ok .soz ... Well, gargoyles a plenty there, I must say.
  <daftykins> ^_^
  <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins:   mmmh ... Yoga . A by-word for chillout everywhere .. All depends on the teacher of course .. but I see a global need on most channels
  <solarcloud_3srcn> http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_guernseynews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=503351
  <daftykins> oh my word
  <daftykins> the crap they have kids doing now
  <solarcloud_3srcn> lol
  <popey> what's wrong with yoga?
  <daftykins> oh hush
  <popey> Êâ¿à² 
  <solarcloud_3srcn> At least it's in-doors . Think of all of the cross-country double lessons going on today .. I digress, but it is a bettr option, popey.
  <AlanBell> anyone in London?
  <daftykins> may help combat obesity? know what else might do that? not carting your chubby kids to school and back on an *island* >_<
  <daftykins> (in a car)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> The walk to school is prob.ly the safest part of their day ... except in Lurgan. NI.
  <popey> When we go away there's a bunch of people who go and do yoga first thing in the morning. they seem better off for it
  <daftykins> popey: where's that d'you mean?
  <popey> when we go away for work events
  <daftykins> ah yeah
  <popey> like sprints and the Ubuntu Developer Summit
   * solarcloud_3srcn thnks popey is omnipotent 
  <daftykins> i don't think there's anything wrong with it itself, i just don't think primary school kids need peace and to 'de-stress' XD
  <daftykins> although if they're surrounding themselves with constant noisy technology, perhaps it is of benefit
  <solarcloud_3srcn> daftykins: I epends how the teacher plays them , as I said.
  <popey> kids certainly need a way to wind down
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **depends
  <popey> reading is good for that
  <popey> that's one reason why we always read to our kids at bed time
  <popey> and the telly/computer/ds/ipad go off a while before bed
  <popey> yoga focusses the mind I guess. âº
   * solarcloud_3srcn says  "Good for the popeys" !!
  <daftykins> popey: do you practice the no-electronics in the bedroom strategy too?
  <popey> yeah
  <solarcloud_3srcn> oooh, that's a bit harsh daftykins
  <popey> no TV in the kids rooms, no PC
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ouch !
  <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: no it's very important, these days the kids are snapping themselves nude and sharing to one another >_<
  <daftykins> gotta clamp down
  <popey> they can use them in the morning
  <popey> just not before bed
  <popey> sophie has just started getting into email
  <solarcloud_3srcn> right, 'cos in the final analysis, It just makes *you* look bad, right ?
  <daftykins> dun-dun-duuuun
  <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: que?
  <daftykins> solarcloud_3srcn: i find that a very daft statement
  <daftykins> it's that the kids don't realise the consequences of that kind of thing
  <popey> yeah, it's funny, lots of kids in her class got ipads / ipod touches for xmas
  <popey> so they now have email addresses
  <popey> she's been off sick a couple of days, and got emails from her schoolfriends wishing her well
  <daftykins> crikey
  <popey> very cute
  <daftykins> what age is that?
  <popey> and yes, I saw one of the mails had a webcam photo attached
  <popey> 9
  <daftykins> crikey
  <popey> yeah
  <popey> when we heard other kids getting ipads we were somewhat dismayed
  <popey> peer pressure
  <daftykins> oh my word, super slow archive extract, i detect disk issues
  <popey> but we have loads of devices in the house so they don't need their own
  <daftykins> yeah, next they'll be after the 'new model'
  <popey> yeah
  <popey> not having that going on here âº
  <daftykins> :D
  <popey> although she is using a nexus 7 âº
  <popey> shared one
   * daftykins pats 3 year old smartphone
  <daftykins> no contracts for me.
  <popey> me either
  <solarcloud_3srcn> It's like watching two Old clucking hen's, you two ^_^
  <popey> hah
  <daftykins> well i'm far from having kids but i find the issues surrounding their upbringing and technology quite interesting :)
  <popey> yeah, me too
  <popey> i worry about these things
  <popey> i caught sophie looking at a safe video on youtube recently
  <daftykins> treading that fine line between giving them what they *need* versus what might affect them in relation to their peers
  <popey> but the comments were less than savoury
  <daftykins> :( all too common that one yeah
  <popey> i hear there are browser extensions to block comments
  <popey> might install those
  <daftykins> iirc you have some website blocking in place at home, don't you?
  <popey> she doesn't need to see that crap
  <popey> only the usual opendns blocking
  <daftykins> ah do they have a blacklist?
  <daftykins> or just in using their DNS?
  <popey> yeah, but i never maintain it
  <popey> yeah
  <popey> i have never seen anything untoward
  <popey> and I keep an eye on things
  <popey> we have sophies email set to forward every mail she recives to mum
  <popey> will turn that off in a few years, but not yet
  <daftykins> *nod*
  <popey> sam doesnt have mail yet, he's only 6
  <daftykins> i'm pretty surprised at some of the aptitude of younger kids that are appearing online on even, freenode here lately
  <daftykins> i imagine how different it would've been having such easy access to further information on topics i was interested in back then
  <daftykins> always on broadband to get it too, rather than the classic driving your parents mad with big dial-up phonebills :D
  <popey> heh, yeah
  <popey> my mum had never used a computer before 2 years ago
  <popey> her very first internet connection was 20Mb broadband :D
  <popey> she will never know the pain of dial-up
  <solarcloud_3srcn> :-$:-/O:-)    can we talk about halflife 1 now ?
  <popey> also, my mother in law has an ipad
  <popey> she got it as a retirement present
  <daftykins> heh
  <popey> it's helped her stay in contact (mostly fb but also email) with people
  <popey> (she just pinged me which is what made me think of it)
  <daftykins> one of my clients got given one by one of his directorships recently, for 'reading notes on' because they *totally* didn't have laptops already
  <popey> haha
  <popey> thats the "its for doing my homework" excuse âº
  <daftykins> :D
  <popey> i used that one in 1983
  <daftykins> he groaned as much as me, but he's loving it now
  <popey> got me a Sinclair Spectrum
  <daftykins> =]
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, 'ave you tried M.U.L.E  on it yet ?? (S-Spectrum) ??
  <popey> nope
   * solarcloud_3srcn wonders if popey even knows what SWars M.U.L.E. actually is , mmmmhpf !
  <popey> nope âº
  <solarcloud_3srcn> oh well .. perhaps this will help .. http://www.worldofmule.net/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=30 also http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?p=198568#post198568
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Man , I'm so tired .. I'm sweating tears !  .. Yesterday was the Alternative sock day. Today is the Wet insoles o' shoes Day,    but ya know; I can't complain. :::::::: Anyone gotta Ubuntu rash to itch ???
  <nigelb> AlanBell: In cabridge now. won't be back in London until the weeek after next, I'm afraid.
  <AlanBell> ok
  <directhex> CS 1.6 on Linux is now official, no hax needed to run it
  <brobostigon> CS ?
  <Aivaras> Counter Strike from steam.
  <brobostigon> ah.
  <Aivaras> I just saw that it is on Beta now.
  <Aivaras> http://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1766803738391201366?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co
  <daftykins> for whoever plays that ;)
  <directhex> 4th most popular game on steam
  <directhex> 40k people playing it right now
  <directhex> more popular than CS:S or CS:GO
  <directhex> bah
  <timp_> Hi, I have managed to get ubuntu server running on my macbook pro, but cannot get desktop up.
  <timp_> Can I upgrade from server to desktop?
  <timp_> What is the package I need?
  <directhex> timp_, yeah, just install the ubuntu-desktop package
  <timp_> yay, thanks
  <timp_> Oh, what about wireless?
  <timp_> I have two macs, this one, wireless and the other booted with ubuntu server
  <timp_> If I connect them with an ethernet cable can I get to the outside world?
  <directhex> maybe there *is* some incompatibility right now for people who don't own HL1 as well as CS
  <directhex> i just did a reinstall of CS only without HL installed, and it's behaving differently to installing CS with HL already installed
  <directhex> gah
  <daftykins> hrmm
  <daftykins> didn't Windows based Steam get around that by having a base package?
  <directhex> daftykins, yeah, but something's changed since this afternoon
  <daftykins> ah-har
  <daftykins> i know what you mean about CS 1.6 btw, i just more meant shocking that people *do* still play it
  <directhex> i have a sad CEO who can't get it to run
  <daftykins> CEO 0o
  <daftykins> i'm seeing an update on HL1 0o
  <daftykins> 400MB!
  <directhex> daftykins, like i said, stuff has changed around!
  <daftykins> yeah my surprise was my verification
  <daftykins> amusingly the Windows client is seizing up refusing to play ball, it has that update paused and won't do anything about it
  <daftykins> good times
  <directhex> daftykins, do you own HL1?
  <daftykins> yeah
  <directhex> oddness
  <daftykins> ah
  <daftykins> i hit pause, instead of resume
  <daftykins> then resume, then it was done instantly
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-26
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Terrorists WIN !!
  <daftykins> pow pow
  <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/h6PXrBa.gif
  <daftykins> amusing GIF, safe for all times
  <solarcloud_3srcn> nice.. daftykins
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I've bookmarked it..
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ' pow pow '.. can't wait to see all of those cat picts today.. Oh wait It's Caturday. Oh dear,
  <solarcloud_3srcn> http://wp.me/phA9d-Sn has been updated tonight .. at last.. a new book to read !
  <popey> morning
  <AlanBell> morning
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <alexcockell> Morning all..
  <brobostigon> afternoon alexcockell
  <popey> hello
  <alexcockell> Oh - got a bit of a giggle here...
  <alexcockell> Who here runs LG smart TVs?
  <alexcockell> Aware there's been a Big Annual Update been roled out?
  <alexcockell> *rolled
  <alexcockell> Historically they rolled out updates model by model... only they've now goen to the Universal Update model..
  <alexcockell> ... and Smart Tvs have massive jumped in sales volumes...
  <popey> i dont own a smart tv
  <alexcockell> They have 1 or 2 servers hosting the whole of the UK
  <alexcockell> ... and I'd guess about 10 million Smart TVs installed int he UK...
  <alexcockell> They announce an update..
  <alexcockell> TV prompts you when you start it up...
  <alexcockell> 400Mb shoudl, on most ADSL connections take about 20 mins tops?
  <alexcockell> Many complaints about it taking >6hrs
  <popey> to download or update?
  <alexcockell> Download - as the telly ideally downloads it itsself..
  <popey> wouldn't get this with Ubuntu T ;)
  <alexcockell> 2 boxes hosting 10m?
  <alexcockell> Yeah - cos we have a CDN...
  <popey> 10 million!?
  <popey> from one company
  <popey> thats 50% of all households
  <alexcockell> Basing it on them having a 5th of the UK telly market..
  <popey> unlikely
  <alexcockell> Multiple tellies?
  <popey> multiple _smart_ tellies
  <popey> i still call unlikely
  <alexcockell> Yeah - point taken - but STBs as well - or WDTV-type units..
  <popey> from one mfr?
  <popey> still, fun âº
  <alexcockell> Getting on that way though - smart tellies HAVE sold quite heavily over the last couple of years
  <alexcockell> Consider Sony, Samsung, PG, Panny...
  <alexcockell> *LG
  <popey> yeah, but there's a zillion manufacturers
  <popey> all those cheapo chinese ones you get in tesco too
  <alexcockell> Well - 5m maybe..
  <alexcockell> But as back-of-an-envelope calcs...
  <alexcockell> Still a case that they have piss-poor infrastructure..
  <alexcockell> I wexpected my router to go mad when attempting the update... net activity lights to flash at a Netflix/iPlayer rate as the update hammered down..
  <alexcockell> But - no.
  <alexcockell> they were VERY interested to hear the suggestion of getting someone like Akamai to shoulder the load...
  <penguin42> alexcockell: Doing all at one is very very dangerous; they're going to have one hell of a bad monday morning when everyone complains about a broken updating
  <alexcockell> They already have...
  <alexcockell> Yeah - first time they went to Universal Update model..
  <alexcockell> Used to be model by model..
  <alexcockell> Penguin42 - Oh - don't I know!  Been in the 2nd line supprt, and now capacity planning game for long enough!
  <alexcockell> So instead of maybe 50thou of this model, 20thou of that...
  <alexcockell> And what happens when they release to the States?
  <alexcockell> Even the workaround model of download-to-PC, load onto USB key and hope... more risk of bricking the telly..
  <alexcockell> They released last night - first people jumped on it and got the update - everyone else stuck at "0% updating..." status page....
  <alexcockell> I bounced the telly a couple of times then thought "fuck this" and cancelled..
  <alexcockell> And on hearing they had 1 or 2 releas servers - instead of 1 or 2 THOUSAND
  <brobostigon> is there a terminal version of something like gkrellm, that can read the temperaure from the rpi?
  <Laney> AIEEEEEEEEEEE
  <penguin42> brobostigon: I don't know Pi, but most stuff tends to come out of /sys/class/hwmon - e.g. /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input
  <penguin42> brobostigon: also try sensors-detect
  <brobostigon> /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp   that seems to be the command to pull the temperature.
  <brobostigon> penguin42: let me look at that, minute.
  <brobostigon> nope, there is no /sys/class/hwmon
  <penguin42> hmph
  <brobostigon> would it be possible, to create a byobu addon, to lets say every 5 secs, runs that command, and then display it in byobu?
  <penguin42> brobostigon: Probably; but probably the right way is to figure out how to teach sensors-detect about it, and then I'd bet there's something already like that for lmsensors
  <brobostigon> penguin42: ok, umm, thank you.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> morning, Afternoon, whatever (!)
  <popey> pip pip
  <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: g'day
  <solarcloud_3srcn> nice minifigs popey !
  <solarcloud_3srcn> penguin42: Said g'day when I worked at a flight reserve. agency .. everyone just looked at me funny :)
  <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: Well it does solve the timezone problem
  <solarcloud_3srcn> yeah, true.
  <dwatkins> The history of the Minifig: http://eho.st/pjymxy7h
  <solarcloud_3srcn> C'est La Vie    .
   * solarcloud_3srcn downloads pic hard & forwards to chris pirillo quickly.. thanx.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Today I am merely a Log floating on the chat channels of life :) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/01%20Glendalough%20130612%20Pano.jpg
  <daftykins> haha
  <daftykins> nice pic that
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Twenty karma points If Anyone Can Tell Me This Fella's Name ?? http://goo.gl/msSDy
  <daftykins> pass
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Aaaww  Poor Freedo .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedo.svg
  <daftykins> Linux libre 0o
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mm.. nother mailing list I see :D
  <daftykins> he appears to be a good choice for a dental mascot
  <solarcloud_3srcn> yes, he had a brother, but he was like Bert of Bert & Ernie (seen as evils)...
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Today wil mark the point that I have not successfully watch TV for over 7 months !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Trinitron%20now%20under%20the%20sink.JPG
  <solarcloud_3srcn> *..will mark...
  <solarcloud_3srcn> http://t.co/Of6ho1X1
  <directhex> that sink is vile
  <directhex> clean it
  <solarcloud_3srcn> It's already clean, dude ( cleaned it months ago !!)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Yoke : Anti-Joke Cat             â@AntiJokeCat                                                       Why was six afraid of seven? It wasn't. Numbers are not sentient and thus are incapable of feeling fear.
  <daftykins> i +1 directhex
  <daftykins> also, high voltage CRT beside water source, that's a recipe for... fun?
  <brobostigon> or, sizzzle.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> it died ages ago.
  <gord> when is sizzling not fun? sun bathing, bacon, saussages, fun for everyone
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I mean it is at the tip now ...
  <brobostigon> not the sizzle when you put electronics in water.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I noticed Ubuntu Tv meeting wasn't on last night :(
  <daftykins> i can't see Ubuntu doing anything good for TV
  <brobostigon> directhex: whats the ice on the paths in town like?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Well, if there's no meeting = there's no collusion or crowdsourcing, so it's no happening either way.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> **it's not happ...
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Looking forward to The Last Train to Zona Verde this Spring http://t.co/5BIbOREY
  <gord> http://www.pcworld.com/article/261487/pc_in_a_keyboard_comes_with_ubuntu_linux_preloaded.html interesting
  <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
  <penguin42> gord: Makes sense
  <penguin42> gord: And not that hard I guess, a full size keyboard is quite big, compare it to a netbook
  <solarcloud_3srcn> no HDMI ??
  <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: i think it did happen
   * solarcloud_3srcn sees a winblows superkey .. mmmmphf !!
  <daftykins> 'super' is OS agnostic
  <daftykins> although if you mean it's adorned by the Windows logo, meh
  <popey> â¹  windows key
  <solarcloud_3srcn> must be a sticker for that, somewhere ?
  <popey> note the old Asus EEE PC which shipped with Linux didn't have a "Windows Key" but a key with a "Home" icon on it
  <popey> very good reason for that
  <daftykins> indeed
  <daftykins> no paying Microsoft
  <daftykins> for the 'privilege'
  <popey> other way round
  <daftykins> really?
  <popey> Microsoft place great limitations on what the Windows key can do
  <popey> if you ship a machine running non-windows but with a windows key, microsoft will send the lawyers in
  <popey> specifically if the windows key does something in software
  <solarcloud_3srcn> What would canonical do ?
  <popey> we don't sell hardware, not our problem
  <solarcloud_3srcn> k
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I must say, I thnk the 1.8GHz is underpowered, today , As there is the 2.13 GHz Atom processor that does the exact same job.
  <gord> its a year old article, so yes its using old tech
  <gord> or half a year even
  <solarcloud_3srcn> gord: good try thou ;D
  <gord> a newer atom would put the price up too, i don't think there is much in .3ghz
  <solarcloud_3srcn> & in other news .. TWIL (Jordan !!) http://twil.tv/2013/01/htc-windows-phone-8x-review-from-an-android-users-point-of-view/ (24thJan'13)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Time for porridge .. & sultanas ..
  <directhex> brobostigon, not so bad now, crunches underfoot
  <brobostigon> directhex: any chance of me slipping and breaking anything?
  <directhex> brobostigon, lower than this morning
  <dwatkins> don't fall in the canal, especially with a phone
  <dwatkins> my iPhone is booting, but wifi and bluetooth don't work, and the touchscreen isn't working correctly.
  <brobostigon> directhex: ok, good, i was alittle worried seeing ice everywhere.
  <brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, best avoided.
  <daftykins> dwatkins: booting with iOS, or...?
  <popey> dwatkins: have you done the usual put the phone in a pot of rice/coffee?
  <popey> bit late now, probably should have back when you hauled yourself out of the canal â¨
  <daftykins> ooh now i see what he means
  <daftykins> indeed, full disassemble time
  <daftykins> get the anhydrous goodness going
  <solarcloud_3srcn> https://plus.google.com/u/0/s/rice%20dry%20iphone
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Anyone heard of Spearmint [not the Rhino !!] ??  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzY
  <popey> newp
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: Your right, It's Prob.ly not relevant.
   * popey shrugs
  <brobostigon> boots i reckon, for my walk to the pub, play safe.
  <MartijnVdS> BBC HD - Bletchley Park 's Lost Heroes
  <MartijnVdS> *now* :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> One for VLC :::: http://www.nasa.gov/mp4/721845main_marsdunes20130124-320-jpl.mp4
  <solarcloud_3srcn> New group on identi.ca  :::http://identi.ca/group/libreplanet
  <popey> is there any point using identi.ca when Ev is shutting it down?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> it's not shut down yet .. that's like saying why buy a newspaper if the Idependant 'I' will go outta print.
  <popey> not really
  <solarcloud_3srcn> well, it still gives me great news, so it is.
   * solarcloud_3srcn lives in the *now*.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> albeit a noosphere...
  <czajkowski> popey: why is he shutting it down ?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> czajkowski: No-one knows , but the new license is MIT , I thnk.  I'll see if anyone's flattr'd it recently, hang-on.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Ok, so the founder has only 119 flattr's and mostly uses fbook .. http://flattr.com/profile/evan/things Also people are not 'claiming their donations with http://flattr.com/thing/425469/statusnet-on-Twitter having 42 unclaimed donations. so it's not that there's no money, It's that the dude don't care.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> What was it that *Mouth* said on the goonies ? All that 'rich stuff' unclaimed ... http://flattr.com/catalog/unclaimed/toplist
  <popey> czajkowski: he said identica was only ever set up as an example of what status.net can do
  <popey> he's moved on to pump.io or whatever his new thing of choice is
  <directhex> identica.ca was never useful
  <ali1234> suppose i want to install upstream git in /usr/local, how do i remove the packaged version without breaking dependencies?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> directhex: It's so un-useful it's on my browser bar !! It for people who share, not ppl. who just suck on the pipe of the day. Maybe some ppl just wouldn't understand.
  <ali1234> is there some way to make apt think that the package is installed without having the files in the filesystem?
  <daftykins> sym links not good enough?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I dont know what they are ?
  <ali1234> sym links?
  <directhex> ali1234, yes. you want software called "equivs"
  <ali1234> directhex: just found that on askubuntu actually...
  <directhex> which takes a small input file (there are examples in /usr/share/docs) and produces an empty dummy package to satisfy dependencies
  <ali1234> http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/
  <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: it might be good for getting news, but no good for interacting with real people.
  <ali1234> neither is twitter
  <popey> meh
  <ali1234> i'm getting lots of obvious spam accounts on my wordpress
  <ali1234> but they're not doing anything
  <ali1234> they all have names that match "wk[a-z]{2}[0-9]{3}[a-z]{3}"
  <ali1234> and free email addresses from hotmail, gmail, ymail etc
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ali1234: It's not like anyone knows anyone on wordpress anyway ...
  <ali1234> what
  <daftykins> is kismet not spotting them easily?
  <ali1234> i don't use it on that site
  <ali1234> kismet scans comments anyway
  <ali1234> they haven't posted any
  <daftykins> oh accounts
  <ali1234> they're just making hundreds of accounts and then not doing anything
  <daftykins> i'm not even sure if that's happening on mine
  <daftykins> oh i think i have just requirements to enter name+email
  <ali1234> we require a full account in order to comment
  <ali1234> we had zero spam problems
  <ali1234> well, none have been reported to me anyway
  <daftykins> hmm wp 3.5.1
  <ali1234> hmm i like the whirly new icon on raring
  <ali1234> unity still unbelievably slow in a VM though
  <daftykins> yeah pretty bad in vmware workstation 8
  <ali1234> hmm so when i booted raring dbus-service immediately crashed
  <ali1234> it's reported on launchpad, claims to be fixed released, in the package version i have installed
  <ali1234> it's clearly the same bug as it's only 2 days old
  <ali1234> should i reopen bug or make a new one?
  <ali1234> dconf-service sorry
  <ali1234> i will make a new bug, and if it is marked duplicate i'll reopen the original bug
  <ali1234> does the daily image have a build number or something?
  <penguin42> bug number?
  <ali1234> bug 1105102
  <lubotu3> bug 1105102 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_builder_add_value()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1105102
  <popey> i saw mention of a dconf issue yesterday in -desktop
  <ali1234> "This bug was fixed in the package glib2.0 - 2.35.4-0ubuntu5"
  <ali1234> nope, i have that version installed after using daily iso
  <daftykins> i keep reading 'raring' as RARing
  <daftykins> :D
  <ali1234> and it still crashes immediately on first boot
  <ali1234> daftykins: me too
  <daftykins> glad to hear i'm not alone there
  <ali1234> heh, changelog "should" fix
  <penguin42> ali1234: Reopen I'd say, either that or if you've already opened a new one then put a comment there pointing to it
  <ali1234> penguin42: ok, i'll reopen
  <ali1234> actually i might be misreading apt-cache output, let me check
  <daftykins> are you re-opening 1105102 or 1104883 that's claimed as a dupe too?
  <ali1234> i dunno yet
  <ali1234> haven't determined which version is actually installed
  <ali1234> apt-cache output is horrible and unclear
  <ali1234> synaptic isn't installed
  <ali1234> software center won't tell me
  <ali1234> so i'm kind of stumped
  <ali1234> ah glib2.0 is a source package anyway
  <ali1234> actually, i can't reopen the bug
  <ali1234> well then i'll just make a new one
  <penguin42> ali1234: dpkg -l to find the current version of something
  <penguin42> ali1234: (sometimes | cat   to force it to give full version)
  <ali1234> glib2.0 is a source package... so that doesn't work
  <ali1234> gotta know the binary name
  <penguin42> dpkg -l libglib2.0-0
  <ali1234> yeah
  <ali1234> it's the new version
  <ali1234> opened a new bug as it's the only thing i can do
  <ali1234> but 1106322
  <ali1234> bug 1106322
  <lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1106322 could not be found
  <ali1234> and it's private
  <solarcloud_3srcn> that's what she said.
  <ali1234> bug 1106322
  <penguin42> hang on
  <penguin42> ali1234: OK, so you believe it's 1105102 that should be reopened?
  <ali1234> i don't know
  <penguin42> ali1234: I've reopened 1105102 and put a link to your new bug
  <ali1234> since i can't reopen it it's irrelevant what i think :)
  <penguin42> ali1234: Not necessarily, I might believe you!
  <ali1234> i have absolutely no idea if it's the same bug or not
  <ali1234> my question was about the correct procedure
  <penguin42> ali1234: Looks like it's the same to me; but I suspect the backtrace might not have enough info to be sure
  <ali1234> well it's pretty easy t reproduce
  <ali1234> why does no one ever actually look at why this stuff crashes?
  <ali1234> i mean there's a patch that says "variant checking"
  <ali1234> what exactly was the variant that caused the crash? and where did it come from?
  <ali1234> why didn't it happen on developer machines?
  <ali1234> just fixing bugs is not enough in my opinion
  <penguin42> ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/glib2.0/raring-proposed/revision/188  is the comemnt on the actual fix
  <ali1234> tells me absolutely nothing
  <penguin42> ali1234: I don't think there is any testing on the dailies - so it's entirely possible the first time that glib version has been paired with the app that crashes it didn't come together until that daily was built
  <ali1234> fair enough
  <ali1234> but that's speculation
  <penguin42> ali1234: If you look a the debian/patches/git_fix_gvariant_tuple_checking.patch  entry there is a long explanation of the mistake that was made in glib
  <ali1234> and besides, if software is really that brittle, something is wron
  <penguin42> ali1234: Software really is that brittle
  <ali1234> so what that means is somewhere there is another bug, which is now hidden by fixing this one...
  <penguin42> ali1234: Well glib is in the end the low level library, so it's the one that's supposed to be the careful one; and  yes I agree the way I read it is the crash is the result of a compound of two bugs
  <ali1234> i don't think i've ever seen a bug that wasn't really two or more bugs
  <ali1234> glib should scream blue murder if an app does something bad
  <ali1234> like instead of spamming warnings that nobody looks at, force terminate the app
  <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried running most gnome apps from the command line and seeing how much screaming goes on?
  <penguin42> ali1234: It's a hard trade off - do you crash an app because of a small error; you don't really want stuff to crash, so in terms of how many times does it screw up for the end user it's difficult to know; but I'd love for the day when .xsesession-errors is empty to be soon
  <ali1234> if it crashed like that since day one, developers would have no choice but to fix the problems
  <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh so one way is to have a more severe mode that does crash on every warning and then get the devs to run with that turned on
  <ali1234> well making it option isn't much use... if they were going to do that they could just look at the warnings
  <penguin42> ali1234: But then turn that off at release so it doesn't break stuff for the user
  <ali1234> plus, if it's even possible to continue, why is it even a warning?
  <penguin42> ali1234: One problem though is when a library adds another check, an app that was written against an older lib would then die even if it would have carried on working
  <ali1234> so: stop futzing with the API, and stop building tightly coupled systems like dconf
  <penguin42> ali1234: Doesn't work in practice
  <ali1234> did anyone ever try it?
  <penguin42> ali1234: It's not just api futzing, a dev might notice something else that an app could do wrong and add a check for it
  <ali1234> all possible ways of using an API should be valid
  <penguin42> ali1234: An interesting difference between debian and ubuntu is that ubuntu uses Fortify that spots buffer overflows, and a lot of universe segs early on because of that spot
  <ali1234> good :)
  <penguin42> ali1234: A lot of them are almost false postives; i.e. things that are technically wrong but could never actually cause something to break
  <ali1234> that's what i mean
  <ali1234> that shouldn't be a possible situation, ever
  <ali1234> this is a fundamental problem in software development as we know it
  <penguin42> ali1234: I think it's harder with things like Java, but they still seem to find ways to crash with Null pointer checks
  <ali1234> managed code does help but it doesn't stop people making bad APIs
  <penguin42> ali1234: It feels like what you're asking for is actually impossible
  <penguin42> it kind of feels like it's wandering into a halting problem like thing
  <ali1234> ban loops
  <penguin42> good idea
  <ali1234> but yeah, that's why i said it's a fundamental problem
  <penguin42> ali1234: There are languages where dynamic allocation is banned but then they're frankly useless
  <ali1234> it's not like i have a solution
   * penguin42 has worked on some static analysis tools - they're good for some stuff
  <popey> we use coverity on some projects
  <penguin42> yeh I've seen some coverity scans - quite neat
  <penguin42> popey: But ali1234 has a good point; forcing people to watch the warning output of gnome apps would be a good thing!
  <ali1234> a big problem with those warnings is they are so unspecific
  <ali1234> could it throw an exception, launch gdb, and show me a backtrace?
  <penguin42> ali1234: You can nail a debugger on them and find what's going on; compare them to python or java errors where you get a page of splurge and then have to figure out whether you care or not
  <ali1234> otherwise i have no idea where the problem i
  <penguin42> yeh I don't think it's hard to attach a debugger to them
  <ali1234> python errors are excellent. full backtrace every time. what vould be better than that?
  <penguin42> ali1234: Bit of a pain for warnings; again something switchable so you can see it when you're prepared to takethe time to debug it would be good
  <ali1234> catch it, or the program crashes
  <ali1234> oh great, i love it when apport says my packages are out of date even though the new ones aren't available on any mirror.
  <popey> which mirror?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Who cares about real ppl .. It's not who it is but what is being said, surely. 'Real people' .. come from Madrid .. and they're crap in bed anyway.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, soz that was from some time ago ..
  <solarcloud_3srcn> (8.10pm)UTC
  <ali1234> wow ... gnome-panel fails to build from source on raring
  <ali1234> both the source package and the upstream bug
  <ali1234> *git
  <ali1234> bug 1106440
  <lubotu3> bug 1106440 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source on raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1106440
  <penguin42> ali1234: Is that failing in the build farm as well?
  <ali1234> i have no idea how t check that
  <ali1234> but i would love to know
  <ali1234> successfully built on the 18th
  <penguin42> erm I can't find it either at the moment, but it's possible one of hte
  <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:3.6.2-0ubuntu3/+build/4071784
  <penguin42> the packages it depends on has been updated; the other possibility is that you have something in your environment that is stopping it building - e.g. something that's installed that isn't installed on the builders
  <ali1234> i don't have much installed... literally what i said in the steps to reproduce... it's a vm
  <ali1234> so i'm guessing the former
  #ubuntu-uk 2013-01-27
  <penguin42> ali1234: Interesting
  <penguin42> ali1234: I've just got a package update for libgtk and the change in it is 'Enable Wayland backend' - and your error is that it can't find the wayland stuff
  <ali1234> sounds like the culprit
  <penguin42> ali1234: Can you tell me the version of your libgtk-3-0* packages - are they 3.6.4-0ubuntu2 ?
  <ali1234> yes
  <penguin42> ali1234: Ah someone got there a few hours before you
  <ali1234> oh?
  <penguin42> yeh it's just been duped to bug 1106188
  <lubotu3> bug 1106188 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Unable to build any GTK app, because of missing wayland-client.pc" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1106188
  <ali1234> cool
  <ali1234> i'm really disappointed this guy never posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/109940541467224286660/posts
  <ali1234> here is a classic example of useless glib errors
  <ali1234> ERROR:panel-applet.c:2087:panel_applet_constructed: code should not be reached Aborted (core dumped)
  <daftykins> 0o
  <ali1234> gnome-panel doesn't contain a file called panel-applet.c
  <daftykins> should not be reached? sounds like an intentional fail
  <ali1234> and the bug is obviously in gnome-panel
  <ali1234> and i know exactly how to reproduce it
  <ali1234> oh wait, my bad
  <ali1234> it's under a different directory
  <popey> happy birthday Laney
   * MartijnVdS played with Blender's video editing bits yesterday.. once you get used to "How Blender does things" it's quite good
  <ging> I have a birthday tommorow!
  <popey> our snowman is dying
  <SuperMatt> morning chumps
  <dwatkins> wotcher
  <popey> pip pip
  <knightwise> morning everyone
  <knightwise> small question
  <knightwise> i've installed ubuntu on my macbook air and found out that if I upgrade the kernell,
  <knightwise> the wifi stops working;
  <knightwise> its ok "out of the box" in .17, but it breaks in .22
  <knightwise> so i've reinstalled the .17 , but how to do i tell Gnome it needs to pick "that one" instead of the .22 ?
  <knightwise> i mean Grub , not gnome
  <ali1234> easymode: uninstall .22?
  <knightwise> ah , thats also an option :)
  <ali1234> hardmode: edit the grub.conf (every time you install a new kernel)
  <knightwise> hadn't thought of that :)
  <knightwise> ah , ok  , i'll try that one too.
  <ali1234> super hardmode: build a package of .17 with a fake extra version bump
  <ali1234> super duper hardmode: get the bug fixed upstream
  <knightwise> naaah :-)
  <ali1234> actually the last one isn't that hard
  <ali1234> also what is .22?
  <knightwise> latest kernell version
  <ali1234> do you mean 3.5.0-22?
  <knightwise> yep
  <knightwise> it works fine in the .17 , but breaks in the .22
  <ali1234> so what you need to do is test the vanilla kernels
  <ali1234> test the newest upstream kernel and report it as broken upstream if that doesn't work
  <ali1234> then do a bisect to find exactly where it breaks... though you ca probably find it by eyeballing the distro git
  <ali1234> since there won't be too many commits
  <ali1234> let me look...
  <knightwise> ok , its a 2012 macbook air.
  <knightwise> 11.6 inch version
  <ali1234> that doesn't tell me much
  <ali1234> what wifi chipset?
  <ali1234> can you test the intermediate kernels... 18, 19, 20, 21?
  <knightwise> ok , i"ll do that later on and report back to  ? i'll install the intermediate ones
  <ali1234> not sure if they will still be available
  <ali1234> 23 is actually newest on git...
  <knightwise> yep , i think so , i got the entire list when i do sudo apt-get install
  <knightwise> at the dinner table at the moment :) 'ill check in a jiffy
  <knightwise> wifey looking at me all strange when I talk about kernels and stuff ;)
  <ali1234> is it BCM4322?
  <knightwise> The 2012 MacBook Air also features the same Broadcom BCM4322 Intesifi Single-Chip 802.11n Wi-Fi Transceiver, and Broadcom BCM20702 Single-Chip Bluetooth 4.0 Processor with Bluetooth Low Energy support. The stereo speaker design is also identical to models released in 2011 and 2010.
  <ali1234> yeah i read that too
  <ali1234> but what modules does it use when it actually works?
  <knightwise> erm . i'll have to be on the machine for that , give me a couple of minutes to finish brekkies and i'll check
  <ali1234> i see a couple of bcm patches
  <SuperMatt> http://www.fandigital.com/p/zoncolor.html < this is one of the first theme packs where I've seen someone *really* put the work in
  <knightwise> in the .23 ?
  <ali1234> no, between 17 and 22
  <ali1234> SuperMatt: that looks pretty good
  <SuperMatt> it bloody well is!
  <knightwise> yeah , but in the .22 i boot with no wifi adapter detected ,
  <knightwise> when I boot in the .17 its ok.
  <knightwise> so i'll see where it breaks along the way
  <SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Screenshot-from-2013-01-27-100345.png
  <knightwise> ok
  <knightwise> ali1234:
  <knightwise> i'm  at the machine ,
  <ali1234> SuperMatt: what font is that?
  <knightwise> i think i'll need to boot into 1.17 to find out what the wifi chipset is .. right ?
  <SuperMatt> ali1234: where?
  <ali1234> yeah that would be best
  <ali1234> SuperMatt: on your screenshot
  <ali1234> is it droid sans?
  <SuperMatt> I only ever use the ubuntu font
  <ali1234> lies.
  <ali1234> ubuntu is not that narrow
  <SuperMatt> you talking about in the middle?
  <SuperMatt> I need to know specifically where :P
  <SuperMatt> there's lots of fonts on the page
  <ali1234> no, on the panel
  <ali1234> also why does the clock text align properly with your name?
  <SuperMatt> panel is definitely ubuntu
  <ali1234> *not
  <ali1234> you've set hinting to maximum :(
  <SuperMatt> but I use tweak tool to knock the font scaling down to 0.7
  <ali1234> how can you look at your indicator area and not feel physically ill?
  <SuperMatt> I don't tend to look up there all that much
  <ali1234> it's only out by one pixel but damn, it looks annoying as hell to me
  <SuperMatt> but you're right about that
  <ali1234> i would switch desktop over that
  <SuperMatt> I'm running raring at the mo
  <ali1234> it's why i don't use KDE :)
  <SuperMatt> could be that it's only shifted becayse I changed the theme and need to log out and back in again
  <ali1234> maybe
  <ali1234> is @billgates the real bill gates?
  <SuperMatt> probably not
  <SuperMatt> oh wait, you mean on twitter
  <SuperMatt> could be
  <ali1234> it's not very amusing for a parody account
  <dwatkins> https://twitter.com/BillGates says 'verified'
  <ali1234> must be real
  <dwatkins> he does a lot of good charity work
  <dwatkins> no idea if it's just dealing with the 'symptoms' or the actual causes of poverty etc. but that's another question
  <SuperMatt> ok, there's a file in the homedir somewhere where you set the paths of your Pictures and Music folders, etc
  <SuperMatt> where is that?
  <SuperMatt> got it
  <dwatkins> oh cool, what's the file, SuperMatt?
  <SuperMatt> .config/user-dirs.dirs
  <dwatkins> cheers
  <SuperMatt> shoulda just looked in .config anyway#
  <SuperMatt> even after logging out and back in again, my time/name thing is still out of whack
  <SuperMatt> blame raring
  <dwatkins> out of whack in what way, SuperMatt?
  <SuperMatt> take a look at my earlier pic
  <SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Screenshot-from-2013-01-27-100345.png
  <dwatkins> I assume you can't move/remove the middle one even by holding down alt or some other modifier
  <SuperMatt> well, it's unity
  <SuperMatt> so probably not
  <SuperMatt> it doesn't bother me
  <SuperMatt> only other people
  <ali1234> it makes me (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»)
  <SuperMatt> it may well be a raring thing
  <SuperMatt> one tic
  <SuperMatt> I have another raring screenshot
  <SuperMatt> same in the other one
  <SuperMatt> I guess it's time I raised a bug
  <SuperMatt> I guess it's not the date that's in the wrong place, I think it's the name because that's not on by default
  <ali1234> the date looks like is is misaligned to me
  <lukasz> Hi
  <SuperMatt> ali1234: submitted
  <SuperMatt> 1106800
  <lukasz> Could you help me to install lastest firefox (18.0) ?
  <lukasz> I have downloaded and extracted package
  <lukasz> I dont know how is next
  <popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/26/mitch_kapor_lotus_123_anniversary/
  <popey> saw that, thought of AlanBell
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
  <SuperMatt> lukasz: I believe that firefox 19 is now in the repositories
  <SuperMatt> if you run an update, it'll be there
  <popey> SuperMatt: 19 is in beta, 18 is in the repo
  <popey> SuperMatt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1576051/
  <SuperMatt> ah, fair enough
  <SuperMatt> I don't use firefox these days
  <popey> me either
  <SuperMatt> having said that, I do constantly change when I find firefox/chrome has a feature that chrome/firefox doesn't have
  <jacobw> morning
  <Paladine> hey folks
  <Paladine> I just wanted to let the apple users among you know that I am assisting Olswang with a UK based group action against Google for bypassing Safari cookie settings between sept 2011/Feb 2012 - if any of you want to join the lawsuit please get in touch with with Daniel.Tench@olswang.com this is a serious lawsuit with a very prestigious law firm behind it, if you want more info feel free to pm me
  <jacobw> Paladine: that's interesting
  <jacobw> Paladine: i've heard of "class action" in the US, is this something similar?
  <Paladine> this is a Group Action which is similar yes
  <Paladine> we are hoping to enjoin millions of UK users
  <Paladine> potentially the biggest ever lawsuit in the UK
  <MartijnVdS> too bad only 3 people use Safari
  <Laney> meow
  <Paladine> actually 10s of millions of UK people use safari
  <MartijnVdS> 10s of people 8-)
  <jacobw> that's a lot of people
  <Paladine> on their iPhones, iPads, Mac Books, Windows Machines
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: pop = 62,641,000; no way >1 in 6 has a mac
  <popey> Sounds like a nice little earner for the lawyers
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, check the metrics on Apple devices in us in the UK
  <Paladine> use*
  <dwatkins> I use an Apple device, but I use Chrome and Firefox.
  <Paladine> oh and disclaimer, I am not getting paid for assisting Olswang in this case
  <jacobw> Safari has run on Windows since 2008 :|
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: also, how many of those people block cookies, etc.
  <Paladine> although I don't know if that will change in the future, if it does I will make sure I disclose it
  <dwatkins> who benefits from this lawsuit, Paladine? I'm genuinely curious what the ideal result would be.
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, you don't understand the case do you, Google were BYPASSING Safari cookie blocking
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: but if you don't enable the blocking in the first place.. there's nothing to bypass
  <Paladine> Safari blocks 3rd party cookies by default
  <Paladine> Google found a way to circumvent the settings
  <dwatkins> I suspect a very small group of people have 1) iOS/OS X 2) Safari as their main browser and 3) Cookies blocked
  <jacobw> Solve breaking and entering by not locking your door?
  <dwatkins> ah ok, it's the default
  <popey> dwatkins: nah, loads of people who buy iPhones have that exact combination
  <Paladine> and ipads
  <dwatkins> fair enough, popey
  <dwatkins> so what should happen, assuming the lawsuit is successful? is it a slap on the wrist for Google, or is the money meant to do something?
  <Paladine> if the lawsuit is successful we are expecting damages against google to the tune of 10s of millions
  <ali1234> "Apple holds 28% of the UK smartphone market, with 8.6 million users"
  <Paladine> maybe even in excess of 100 million
  <dwatkins> so each iPhone user gets Â£11.63?
  <ali1234> lolno
  <Paladine> ali, that is the smartphone market, not add to that ipads, mac books (pro and airs), apple desktop machines etc.
  <ali1234> each user will get Â£1, lawyers take the rest
  <popey> +1
  <MartijnVdS> Also, Google have stopped doing it and apologised. This tends to count in court.
  <Paladine> this case isn't about money, it is about making sure Google pay the penalty for breaching the law
  <ali1234> Paladine: iphone owners and ipad owners are the same people
  <popey> that Â£1 doesn't begin to cover the lack of care most people have
  <SuperMatt> and the people that benefit from that penalty are?
  <dwatkins> ali1234: indeed, I am concerned this will result in Google paying out, lawyers making ots of money, but users not benefitting apart from a slightly higher liklihood companies won't circumvent such defaults in future
  <jacobw> The EU cookie law requires from consent from a user before a cookie is set on they're browser, if one of the major web companies is violating this law either by ignoring it or circumventing enforcement mechanisms like cookie blocking (which is more deliberate than ignoring the law) then they're definitely liable to a group action claim IMO
  <Paladine> ali, not true, for example, I was an iPad owner but not an iPhone user
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: better go after more large companies for not (or hardly) paying tax then
  <ali1234> popey, how many ipads and iphones do you have now?
  <popey> household has one ipad, two iphones, two machines running osx
  <popey> only one of them runs safari
  <Paladine> Supermatt, the entire UK benefit, because it sends a clear message to the rest of the big tech companies that circumventing law will have serious consequences
  <jacobw> The users benefit from the company being challenged on it's violation of the law that users as part of the electorate that provides the legislature with the mandate to created
  <popey> i see the US have already gone through this..
  <popey> http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/technology/google-safari-settle/index.html
  <ali1234> wat
  <popey> looks like someone in the UK being opportunistic
  <SuperMatt> yes, but if google are fined, what benefit do the people get? where does the money go
  <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: lawyers
  <Paladine> now feel free to disagree as much as you like, I merely came here to let you all know about the lawsuit (because I know a lot of people here have apple devices) dont shoot the messenger
  <popey> well, you're not just a messenger
  <popey> you're working on it
  <ali1234> this is interesting information to me anyway
  <popey> indeed
  <popey> its interesting
  <dwatkins> Paladine: I appreciate the message being sent to companies like Google. It's good this is happening in general.
  <ali1234> i mean i don't give a toss about apple users... apple does far worse to them than google ever has, and they do it every day
  <ali1234> just because it's legal doesn't make it moral
  <dwatkins> Personally I'd prefer the proceeds to be given to some relevant charity, but anyway.
  <jacobw> If they're fined by the EU body that's responsible for web regulation then that body will have more funds to do it's work, though each litigant will have to pay legal fees as all litigants do
  <Paladine> I have worked on improving cookie laws in the UK for the last 5 years, this is the first time I have had an opportunity to take such an action and raise so much awareness
  <Paladine> so yeah, I agreed to help them when they contacted me
  <ali1234> oh, so you;re the one we should blame for that disaster then?
  <jacobw> I didn't realize how cynical this channel was :|
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not as bad as the one we have.. where _explicit consent_ is required to set cookies.. and guess how it's stored if you don't want cookies.
  <Paladine> I worked personally on the changes to 5(3) of the ePrivacy Directive with the EU Commission, yeah, and I am proud of that work
  <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: lolwut
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I have a browser preference flag.. why can't the law just let me use that?
  <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Dutch lawmakers = computer-illiterate
  <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: sadly this does not surprise me
  <jacobw> Paladine: thanks, web privacy is important to many of us
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, because 99% of the population know absolutely nothing about browser settings nor ever change them, just because you are tech savvy does that mean everyone else should just go to hell?
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: No, but requiring every site to have a (different!) pop-up is annoying as well.
  <Paladine> and I happen to know the Dutch Law Makers very well, they are far from computer illiterate, they are some of the most well informed legislators in Europe
  <dwatkins> "For cookies that are deemed to be âstrictly necessary for the delivery of a service requested by the userâ the consent of the user is not needed."
  <Paladine> thereis no requirement to have pop-ups
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: Browser makers could implement it instead of website builders: just like "This site wants to install a plugin" or "It wants to know your location"
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: no there's a requirement for disclosure (and in some countries, consent)
  <Paladine> pop-ups were implemtented by the ad industry to deliberately make the situation cumbersome and make users complain, looks like they managed to trick you eh?
  <dwatkins> I remember pop-ups.
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: bbc.co.uk ?
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, I am a respected expert on 5(3) across the world, I know it incredibly well, I worked on it, so I know everything there is to know about the law, the process which made it law and the lobbying by industry against it, I have lived and breathed 5(3) for the last 5 years
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: they don't do ads...
  <MartijnVdS> but they DO have the annoying popup
  <Paladine> 5(3) is not just about ads
  <Paladine> it is about tracking
  <Paladine> it isnt just ads that track
  <MartijnVdS> As if they won't find other ways to do that.
  <Paladine> BBC have a whoile bunch of tracking technologies on their site
  <ali1234> so what's the alternative to popups?
  <MartijnVdS> Also, only European sites have to comply. US sites just ignore it.
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: "no tracking"
  <ali1234> just remove all tracking technology from the site?
  <Paladine> and 5(3) isn't just about cookies it is about any technology which requires interaction with an end users terminal equipment in order to track them
  <dwatkins> Ghostery is handy as a browser extension, blocks all manner ot trackers. Some websites show over ten different systems in use.
  <Paladine> so it includes device identifiers and serverside fingerprinting too
  <kvarley> How can I enable remote desktop viewing from an SSH session?
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: which way?
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: view the desktop of another machine on the SSH client, or view the desktop of an SSH server on an SSH client?
  <kvarley> I'm logged into my desktop on SSH and want to enable remote desktop access on my desktop for all
  <MartijnVdS> uhr
  <kvarley> So enable VNC from ssh
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Morning.  I just fell outta bed !
  <dwatkins> x11vnc is what I use for this
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: that's going to be hard..
  <Paladine> actually US sites have to comply too and this will soon be much more clear when the new Data Protection Regulation becomes law in 2016
  <kvarley> MartijnVdS: What's the config util in ubuntu called? Surely I can just run the config app via SSH with X forwarding?
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: no, because your session variables (Dbus etc.) don't match up
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: Still, the current way of notifying is BAD
  <Paladine> I was just in Brussels last week in meetings with Article 29 Working Party, EU Politicians, EU Commission and the FTC
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: and I'm still not convinced the tracking is 100% bad
  <Paladine> FTC are currently beginning discussion with EU regulators about bringing mutual actions against privacy violaters
  <Paladine> it is not about whether the tracking is good or bad, it is about obtaining consent
  <Paladine> you want tracking and profiling of your behaviour that is fine, many people don't, the law requires consent be given, you want it give your consent
  <ali1234> public websites should be covered by implied consent like anything else public
  <ali1234> "in my opinion"
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: so set an HTTP header, have the browser add one of those "permission" bars like it does for the "Location" API, or something
  <Paladine> research shows that implied consent is bad because most of the population are not tech savvy and therefore never change their settings but they don't like being tracked when they are made aware of it
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: so I can configure my browser for "consent to everything" if I want to.. or "Deny everything"
  <ali1234> it doesn't matter
  <Paladine> that is why we spent 5 years changing the law to require informed consent
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: we have sites that only work if you click "Yes, I accept tracking cookies"
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: if you don't, you get a blank page with "Enable cookies anyway"
  <ali1234> actually they say "yes, i accept cookies"
  <ali1234> no mention of tracking
  <Paladine> so they lose most of their visitors then, their loss
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: except they dont
  <ali1234> basically it just says "click here to make website work"
  <ali1234> absolutely nobody refuses
  <MartijnVdS> exactly
  <ali1234> nobody is informed
  <ali1234> you cannot legislate around stupidity
  <MartijnVdS> not usefully anywy
  <Paladine> ali, that is because the Information Commissioners Office in the UK are in breach of EU Law and advising sites to use implied consent (against EU law) that will be dealt with with the new regulation
  <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I used an SSH session with X forwarding to run "vino-preferences" which allowed me to gain access to a VNC session :)
  <MartijnVdS> kvarley: ok
  <Paladine> ali, currently 8% of visitors across a large sample are refusing to accept the cookies
  <ali1234> no, it's because nobody reads the damn popups
  <Paladine> that is a HUGE nbumber
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: I'm in the Netherlands, explicit consent is required here
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: the popups just get more annoying, it doesn't help with educating users
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, I know, I know the netherlands law and legislators very well
  <ali1234> i could easily see that the 8% is people who clicked the wrong button on accident
   * kvarley never accepts cookie disclosures for random sites because it's wasting my time
  <Paladine> ali, there is only 1 button "Accept"
  <kvarley> Is providing an opt-out button ok?
  <Paladine> so they cant click the wrong one
  <ali1234> that's not true, sometimes there are two buttons
  <Paladine> no opt-out isnt compliant
  <kvarley> Hhmm
  <Paladine> ali, the sites we are monitoring are using a single button
  <ali1234> so, what you're saying is that 8% of users... do nothing?
  <Paladine> we are monitoring a wide sample of sites using the same api
  <ali1234> how do you monitor that exactly?
  <MartijnVdS> honour system?
  <Paladine> we have access to the API stats
  <ali1234> since there is no button to opt out, there are no stats on how many people opted out
  <Paladine> and yes 8% of users are doing nothing
  <ali1234> it's like saying "100% of people who didn't visit the site rejected tracking"
  <Paladine> we know how many people are visiting the page and how many people are clicking the "Allow" or "Continue" button
  <Paladine> so yes it is easy to derive stats on how many arent
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: do you have stats on how many people actually read the notice, and how many accidentally clicked the wrong button?
  <ali1234> what does one of these sites look like anyway?
  <MartijnVdS> because those numbers are very important in determining whether it's effective
  <Paladine> and the 8% is why the US lobby are so strong at the moment, because to you 8% may not sound liek a lot (and this is before DNT is even implemented) but to big corps 8% is a huge number
  <ali1234> have you got an example of "the correct way"?
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: omroep.nl
  <Paladine> we are seeing similar figures for DNT in Firefox too, around 7%
  <ali1234> so you can't use the site at all without accepting cookies?
  <Paladine> so before DNT has even become a standard, 7% of users are enabling it
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: is that "7% wants to be tracked" or "7% does NOT want &"
  <Paladine> we are currently still gathering stats for Chrome
  <Paladine> 7% turn on DNT
  <Paladine> brb need to go bathroom
  <Azelphur> this reminds me to turn on DNT.
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, because they're required by law to track how many visitors they get, from which part(s) of the country/world
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and there's no exception in the "cookie law".. so you HAVE to accept their tracking cookies if you want to use the site(s)
  <ali1234> hmm also, how exactly do you track the number of people who don't want to be tracked, without breaking the law you're trying to monitor?
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I have no idea.
  <MartijnVdS> I love how the "I don't want to be tracked" data is stored.. in a cookie
  <ali1234> if there is a site which has no purpose other than tracking people, is it covered by the "strictly necessary" exception?
  <MartijnVdS> Like "Google Analytics"?
  <MartijnVdS> As far as I've heard.. no
  <ali1234> nah. more like a site that just says "you last visited on ..." and nothing else at all
  <ali1234> whendidilastvisitthiswebsite.com
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, there is no law which requires web sites to track visitors
  <Paladine> the Data Retention Directive only applies to telecommunications companies, not content providers
  <Paladine> so I am not sure why you think it does
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: Dutch Public Broadcasting is required to keep stats on its visitors
  <Paladine> and where did you see that?
  <Paladine> because I know the dutch law very well and it is explicitly written into the dutch transposition of the data retention directive that content providers are NOT required to retain data
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: it's part of the charter of "Dutch Public Broadcasting" (NPO) to report on its performance.
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: i.e. how many people it's reaching, related demographic data
  <Paladine> Charter != Law
  <Paladine> a Charter doesnt override law either
  <Paladine> so if their charter is incompatible with law they need to chaneg their charter
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: except they won't get subsidies if they can't prove they're doing their work
  <ali1234> yeah, instead of having tracking cookies, they could just shut down instead
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: and then we wouldn't have public broadcasting anymore
  <ali1234> they would be within the law
  <Paladine> you can argue the point as much as you like, their charter doesn't override law, same as BBC's charter doesnt
  <Paladine> if their charter is incompatible with law they need to change it
  <penguin42> hmm impressive change in weather over night
  <ali1234> if the law is incompatible with reality they need to change it
  <Paladine> I will have a chat with Jacob Kohnstamm about it
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: they can't change their own charter
  <brobostigon> penguin42: that was yesterday, sun and gradual daytime increase in temperature.
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: Dutch public broadcasting is.. weird
  <Paladine> ali, if you dont like the law you are free to lobby to change it, that is the wonderful thing about democracy
  <Paladine> if you dont want to lobby to change it then dont complain about it
  <ali1234> tat's bullshit
  <ali1234> sorry but it is
  <ali1234> you're saying that anyone who can get a law passed automatically justifies that law as correct
  <MartijnVdS> The Germans tried that years ago
  <penguin42> brobostigon: I think it actually his something like 7c last night, but down to 3c here now - all the snow's gone
  <Paladine> yeah it is soo much bullshit, that is why despite corporate lobby pumping millions of euros into lobbying against 5(3) changes, we still managed to have the law changed without any resources, just through democracy....such bullshit that
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: next time, have it changed in a less idiotic way
  <brobostigon> penguin42: yes, here it was about that temperature here also last night,
  <Paladine> ali, I never said that at all, I said if you don't like a law lobby to have it changed.  I lobbied against 5(3) of the ePrivacy Directive and got it changed because I didn't agree with it, if you don't like something get off your ass and do somethign about it instead of just whining
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: "mediawet" is the law that requires NPO to report its performance (which is incompatible with what's known as "cookie law" here)
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: so yes.. we have conflicting laws.
  <ali1234> Paladine: lobbying and whining are exactly the same thing
  <Paladine> no lobbying is getting off your ass and delivering reasoned arguments backed up by empirical research to legislators
  <ali1234> if you whine long enough, the law will get changed, no matter how ridiculous what you are asking for it. you are the living proof of that.
  <penguin42> ali1234: http://research.cs.wisc.edu/cbi/  is an interesting approach top bug solving
  <Paladine> whining is just what you are doing now
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, I don't think mediawet is incompatible with the directive, the directive doesn't make it illegal to gather site statistics, it makes it illegal to track users without consent
  <Paladine> having stats which show 2 000 000 people from amsterdam visited this page on this day is not unlawful under the directive
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: Except Dutch law is more strict than the EU directive.
  <Paladine> stats which show that 1 users with this IP address visited all these pages in succession - that is illegal without consent
  <Paladine> because it allows you to infer behaviour and build a profile
  <Paladine> no it isnt the dutch law is verbatim
  <Paladine> it is wored identically to the directive
  <Paladine> worded
  <MartijnVdS> It's in need of a rewrite then
  <Paladine> it was passed by your constitutional court, so if you don't like it complain to them
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: uhhh.. we have a constitutional court?
  <ali1234> penguin42: not sure how that is different to apport really...
  <MartijnVdS> as far as I know, Dutch law can't be tested for "constitution-compliance".
  <Paladine> your supreme court makes judgements on constitutional matters
  <penguin42> ali1234: Oh read the detail it's very very different
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: except cookie law != constitution
  <penguin42> ali1234: It's sampling normal running not  just crashes and it's sampling things like just branches
  <Paladine> Directive 5(3) of the ePrivacy Directive is based on the Lisbon Treaty articles on Privacy
  <Paladine> you are a signatory to the Lisbon Treaty
  <Paladine> the Lisbon Treaty is an EU Wide Consitution
  <Paladine> Constitution
  <ali1234> penguin42: but... i don't see how that's useful, to know that, for example "posÂ <Â x never, posÂ ==Â x once, and posÂ >Â x fourteen times"
  <ali1234> i mean it still has to handle all those cases
  <Paladine> the whole reason 5(3) was changed was because of the strengthening of Privacy as a fundamental citizens right under the Lisbon Treaty
  <penguin42> ali1234: The idea is to get massive correlation data that it normally goes that way, and then when something crashes you can flag that it's gone down an unusual path
  <ali1234> hmm
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: I'm not against what it's trying to accomplish, I just think it's trying to accomplish it in a bad way
  <ali1234> i guess that could help find one bug
  <penguin42> ali1234: They have examples of using it to find race conditions and lots of stuff
  <ali1234> buuuuuut... what i want is a programming language where bugs are impossible :)
  <penguin42> ali1234: I'll give you one; it's going to have the single verb 'doHelloWorld'
  <jacobw> there's no bugs, just unexpected behaviors
  <ali1234> no, there are bugs
  <ali1234> segfault is not unexpected behaviour, it's *always* an error
  <Paladine> MartijnVdS, I say again, the directive is good, the way industry have chosen to comply is the problem, they have done so in a deliberate attempt to annoy consumers and drive them against the directive, I was present at all the meetings and saw the lobbying directily, I have even had meetings with the industry groups such as IAB, I know their methods and tactics very well
  <jacobw> yes :)
  <jacobw> (j/k)
  <MartijnVdS> Paladine: It could have been prevented with more careful wording of the directive.
  <penguin42> we seem to have almost as many euphemisms for bugs as we do for sex
  <Paladine> the Directive does not require compliance using the method industry have chosen, there are far more suitable methods of compliance, but the industry want to derail the law because it costs them money
  <jacobw> penguin42: well, bugs and sex are very important to programmers, unfortunately they get much more the former ;)
  <Paladine> anyway I have a lot to do so I better get back to it, but thanks for the chat
  <jacobw> good luck Paladine
  <MartijnVdS> fighting windmills
  <penguin42> jacobw: and that's before we get to endianness
  <jacobw> ha
  <ali1234> turing machines have a halting problem. but do we really need a turing machine to post stuff on twitter?
  <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure I know; but it's amazing how almost all systems turn out to be Turing machines if you look hard enough
  <ali1234> what if we have a programming language with only two datatypes: int, and char[139];
   * penguin42 hands ali1234 bcpl
  <penguin42> ali1234: If you can index into your char[139] array by a variable then I believe you have the same problem; you have to prove that it's not possible to overflow the 139
  <ali1234> you can't :)
  <ali1234> and no pointers either
  <penguin42> ali1234: If you can't index into the array then how do you form the contents?
  <ali1234> the programming language has a function readupto139charactersfromuser();
  <penguin42> ali1234: OK, so what operations can you do on tweet_t ?
  <ali1234> and the string would be neither readable nor writable
  <ali1234> or rather, it would be immutable
  <ali1234> or const, or whatever
  <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh so you're not going to be overflow it; but you're going to have a pretty basic tweet program
  <ali1234> essentially, an opaque blob
  <ali1234> also, maxint = 256
  <penguin42> why not 139 ?
  <ali1234> even better
  <ali1234> and each function can have no more than two arguments
  <ali1234> thus, it is possible to directly test all possible inputs to a function (since every string is equivalent)
  <penguin42> ali1234: The trick is you can make programming languages that you can't make any significant bugs in; but you can't do anything significant in them
  <ali1234> maybe you can' do anything significant, but that doesn't preclude writing a twitter client
  <penguin42> ali1234: In your language you can't highlight part of the tweet, edit it or do anything else
  <penguin42> ali1234: All you've done is move all the complexity into the implementation of the language (which can now do very little)
  <ali1234> well, this is what managed languages do...
  <ali1234> but obviously not to an extreme
  <penguin42> ali1234: The challenge is to get a language you can write useful programmes AND make it hard to write bugs
  <ali1234> we have loads of languages like that already
  <ali1234> i think it's more interesting to make a less useful language when bugs are impossible... it's a less explored avenue :)
  <AlanBell> there are a few, depending on how you define bugs
  <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATS_(programming_language) would be one
  <ali1234> yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about
  <penguin42> AlanBell: Interesting one
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Happy 300th issue of UWNews ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue300
   * dwatkins is mildly surprised to note gmail promoting godaddy
  <popey> surely godaddy are paying for it like any other customer?
  <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: anyone can buy ads
  <dwatkins> ah yes
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Anyone wanna go all conspiracy theory ? .. Count me out ! http://www.indiegogo.com/Citizen-Spy-Not?c=home
  <penguin42> hmm I can't find where in ff the setting for 'open new tab as the one you just closed' - or whatever it's called; because it's on and annoying me
  <MartijnVdS> ctrl+shift+tab
  <MartijnVdS> uhr
  <MartijnVdS> T
  <MartijnVdS> not tab
  <penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, I mean it's doing it whenever I opena  tab and I don't want it to
  <MartijnVdS> don't press shift ;)
  <MartijnVdS> ctrl+t
  <penguin42> hehe possible
  <Paladine> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/27/idUSnPreXJWM1a+13c+PRN20130127  < more info on the Google case for those that are interested
  <dwatkins> Paladine: wouldn't the decision to circumvent the Safari setting be likely to have been made in the US, and therefore not something a UK court can penalise Google for?
  <Paladine> that is for UK courts to decide, the lawsuit is being issued against both Google's US and UK companies
  <penguin42> dwatkins: Does that matter? They do business here, they usually redirect you to google.co.uk etc
  <dwatkins> ah I see
  <Paladine> the US Safe Web Act permits US courts to take action against non us companies, why shouldn't other countries do the same?
  <Paladine> it is a good question though and one that came up in brussels this week in a meeting with Julie Brills from the FTC, she stated she sees no reason legally why other jurisdictions can't take legal action against US companies since the US do the same
  <ali1234> the issue is always going to be enforcement
  <ali1234> i can't see google pulling out of the UK
  <dwatkins> I can see them being fined for this, though.
  <ali1234> oh certainly
  <Paladine> no this isnt a fine, they already got away with it from the regulator
  <Paladine> this is a lawsuit
  <ali1234> who doesn't want free money?
  <Paladine> so there is the potential for vast damages being issued against them
  <dwatkins> so a fine, all be it a big one?
  <Paladine> damages != fine
  <Paladine> fines are paid to the state
  <Paladine> damages are paid to claimants
  <dwatkins> oh I see, thanks
  <Paladine> the maximum fine google could have faced was Â£500 000 from the information commissioner
  <Paladine> but the maximum damages are unlimited and will likely exceed Â£100M is enough people join the action
  <Paladine> s/is/if
  <knightwise> ls
  <knightwise> oops  sorru   wrong window
  <knightwise> danm ipad keyboard
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: Just so we know .. when is the next episode likely to be of the Ubuntu-UK podcast ??
  <jacobw> that's a popular question, the answer is usually that it'll be ready when it's ready
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Nice and wharme in my house today :D
  <dwatkins> It's time for some nice loud Pendulum.
  <Pendulum> dwatkins: I'm quiet :P
  <dwatkins> haha
  <solarcloud_3srcn> scanning for Pendulum on spotify ...
  <Pendulum> heh
  <dwatkins> I have Immersion playing on the speakers I just installed, may use them for some Doctor Who shortly.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mmmphf ! don't thnk muych o ' Pendulum, anyhow ::: http://open.spotify.com/track/4rVRolQ2qr0TqGQSl000pM
  <dwatkins> each to their own :) I also like all kinds of other music
  <dwatkins> I don't have Spotify anymore, so I can't follow that link.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> true.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> it should just be a webpage ..
  <dwatkins> ah yes, it tells me which track it is, so I could probably find it in iTunes
  <solarcloud_3srcn> hands up who hates iTunes ??
  <solarcloud_3srcn> o/
  <dwatkins> :-p
  <dwatkins> It works, people can say what they like.
   * penguin42 flicks a CD case at solarcloud_3srcn
  <solarcloud_3srcn> I haven't used it in 5 years, Anyway the Real news is that I have a Pepperoni pizza coming out of the Oven in 7 mins ... :)
  <dwatkins> I won't mention carbohydratyes, solarcloud_3srcn ;)
  <dwatkins> you avoid iTunes, I avoid carbs and sugar.
   * solarcloud_3srcn wonders if Â£1.50 piza is all it's cracked up to-be ?
  <dwatkins> you will probably get what you paid for.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mm. 2 for Â£3.
   * solarcloud_3srcn broke his vow of 'fb coventry' today , by allowing someone to join his fb linux group .. damn facebook group .. no-one ever shares anything anyway !
  <solarcloud_3srcn> What's that beebing noise ?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Oh pizza .. :)
  <dwatkins> or a model B with 32k...
  <jacobw> crappy, i've been missing 'homage to catalonia' on Radio 4 for the last half hour
  <dwatkins> is there a +1? ;)
  <jacobw> no, but there's the iPlayer for listening at one's convenience
  <jacobw> and, stashing forever with get_iplayer :p
  <solarcloud_3srcn> jacobw: OH POoo. I read it was about Eric Cantana
  <jacobw> it's not
  <solarcloud_3srcn> jacobw: yes, anything but ..
  <penguin42> http://www.ediblegeography.com/the-last-places/   the wine cellar under the ministry of defence
  <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mmm . don't see a boss , but the red wine's nice..
  <popey> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
  <solarcloud_3srcn> hieroglyph's popey ? Are you watching SWars again ?
   * penguin42 thinks popey has been reading unicodeemoticons
  <jacobw> my emotions are on the astral plane >_>
  <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: dunno soon
  <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: we're off out for curry soon to decide when to do season 6
  <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, I just don't know how to donate, other than phone messages.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> BTW the pizza was a https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/success.png
  <penguin42> someone put some more coal on the ubuntu archive servers please
  <bigcalm> Ahoy
  <bigcalm> Playing Half-Life with a trackball is not as easy as one would hope
  <solarcloud_3srcn> bigcalm: What make/model is the trackball ??
  <bigcalm> Logitech M570
  <solarcloud_3srcn> scanning..
  <solarcloud_3srcn> looks kinda LibreCAD to me .. but I haven't a clue as I've never used one.
  <penguin42> is that the one with the big marbely ball?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> looks like it .. either blue or red ball...
  <bigcalm> penguin42: no, that's the Logitech Marble
  <bigcalm> (which I also have)
  <penguin42> ah
  <solarcloud_3srcn> bigcalm: Have you captured any monsters yet ??
  <brobostigon> itv2, toy story, sid, :)
  <neuro> toy story on itv2? yuck
  <neuro> ads :(
  <brobostigon> yes, advertising is not conductive to a smooth viewing experience.
  <neuro> and they'll trim the crap out of the credits too :(
  <brobostigon> out-takes if memory serves, at the end.
  <neuro> na
  <neuro> just credits
  <popey> ugh, hideous compression artifacts too
  <neuro> i'm a purist, i want to see the whole movie
  <neuro> popey: if you're watching on freeview, aye
  <popey> virgin
  <neuro> probably just as bad
  <popey> oh, we have hd
   * popey looks
  <neuro> yeah, was gonna say :)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> mmp  neauro is a puritan .. do you wear a hat ??
  <bigcalm> Does itv2 have an HD version?
  <popey> bah, cant find itv hd
  <neuro> bigcalm: yup
  <popey> oh its 2
   * bigcalm scratches his noggin
  <popey> not on virgin
  <penguin42> what are the bitrates like on HD, or are they just more pixels compressed harder?
  <bigcalm> That'll be why I don't remember seeing an itv2 HD :)
  <neuro> penguin42: depends on the platform and the channel
  <neuro> in theory sky have more available bandwidth to just throw Mbps at the problem
  <neuro> virgin has some constraints, freeview has serious constraints
  <neuro> the freeview HD multiplex only has about 28Mbps to go around
  <neuro> shared amongst 4 24/7 channels
  <mgdm> However Freeview HD at least uses a modern codec
  <neuro> popey: yeah, sky only, i think
  <neuro> h.264 baby
  <mgdm> whereas SD Freeview uses old MPEG2 crap
  <neuro> well, it wasn't crap when it was spec'd
  <bigcalm> How about freesat?
  <neuro> bigcalm: sky only
  <mgdm> neuro: yes, true
  <bigcalm> I see
  <neuro> channel 225
  <neuro> although it switches to 118 and moves SD to 225 once you're a sky subscriber
  <neuro> quite neat
  <mgdm> I suspect that DVB-S uses MPEG 2 in a transport stream the same as DVB-T
  <neuro> yup
  <neuro> and DVB-C
  <neuro> the only difference on DVB-T was QAM
  <neuro> 8k vs 64k
  <neuro> eventually they all went 64k so they could squeeze some more channels in
  <neuro> and improve tx robustness
  <neuro> oops, rx robustness, i meant
  <neuro> it's a shame when we went itvdigital -> freeview they couldn't have respecced everything to DVB-T2 / h264, but there were too many itvdigital/ondigital boxes out there, so they stuck with regular DVB-T
  <mgdm> yeah
  <neuro> so DVB-T2 is HD only
  <neuro> for now
  <mgdm> I suspect the new Local TV stuff will be DVB-T2
  <neuro> most likely
  <mgdm> but that's idle speculation
  <neuro> :)
  <neuro> just a shame they're squandering the old analogue UHF frequencies
  <neuro> could easily have added three or four DVB-T2 multiplexes
  <neuro> i think one more may be on the cards, but again ... idle speculation
  <mgdm> No money in that, when they could be sold to mobile networks ;-)
  <neuro> i know
  <daftykins> only trouble with standards is how many standards there are ;D
  <neuro> although LTE in the 800-900 band would be nice for building penetration
  <solarcloud_3srcn> And now for somm-it completely different :::::http://vimeo.com/57370112#
  <neuro> daftykins: the world can rarely agree on one thing
  <neuro> especially when it comes to television with so many commercial interests involved
  <neuro> long gone are the days when the beeb could just create something at R&D and then magically turn it into a standard
  <neuro> cf NICAM
  <daftykins> certainly glad the Beeb aren't in charge of things
  <neuro> really?
  <neuro> teletext and NICAM were pretty kick ass
  <daftykins> past is past
  <daftykins> :)
  <neuro> 728kbps 14-bit 32kHz stereo audio
  <neuro> now you get TV channels broadcasting video at almost that low a rate
  <daftykins> it's alright because there's nothing worth seeing :)
  <neuro> grumpy guts :)
  <daftykins> nah it's not being grumpy, i'm just saying TV is terrible today :)
  <neuro> most media is
  <daftykins> it's ok though, the broadcast model shall soon be dead with any luck
  <neuro> doubtful
  <daftykins> that's where the luck part comes in
  <neuro> there's still a desire for "as it happens" media consumption
   * mgdm would be upset if the broadcast model died soon
  <brobostigon> QI and HIGNFY rock. :)
  <mgdm> I'd have to go and find another job
  <neuro> and the reason ratings aren't as high these days is because of multichannel profligation, not due to receding viewing figures in total
  <neuro> it's easy to get 20m watching a programme when there's only 3 channels to pick from
  <neuro> but when there's potentially several hundred channels ...
  <daftykins> i just have a bunch of stuff stashed locally that i watch at-will
  <neuro> ah but what new stuff do you get?
  <daftykins> i'm not paying the Beeb to churn out their... well their.
  <neuro> is it all youtube indie style stuff?
  <daftykins> just this US spy parody series called 'Archer' right now
  <daftykins> animated
  <daftykins> youtube? not sure i follow
  <neuro> Archer
  <neuro> which is broadcast on FX
  <mgdm> Presumably you bought that all legally on DVD or something similar, or a paid-for download?
  <neuro> :)
  <daftykins> i'm not sure how it being broadcast originally bears any relevance to what i'm saying?
   * neuro pays his licence fee and netflix dues, even though i rarely watch actual tv on my humax (and aerial is disconnected from tv, because samsung's freeview implementation circa 2008 was rubbish)
  <daftykins> *he
  <neuro> daftykins: you're predicting the end of the broadcast model
  <neuro> but Archer is brought to you via that same model
  <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gcw/gcw-zero-open-source-gaming-handheld
  <popey> iiinteresting
  <daftykins> neuro: it would be if i lived in the US, i suppose
  <daftykins> but no i obtain it after the fact
  <neuro> um
  <neuro> archer has been on Ch 5
  <neuro> or at least one of their offshoots (5USA?)
  <neuro> and i'm saying archer possibly wouldn't exist but for that broadcast model
  <daftykins> ah, a point at last
  <daftykins> :)
  <neuro> that was my point 2 minutes ago :)
  <neuro> i obviously just didn't articulate it clearly enough :(
  <daftykins> do you not think it antiquated to have to be somewhere at a specific time to watch a program?
  <neuro> no
  <neuro> but at the same time, that idea isn't new
  <daftykins> did it need to be new?
  <neuro> cf video cassette recorders
  <neuro> no
  <neuro> but i'm pretty sure there were "THE BROADCAST MODEL IS DOOOOOOMED" conversations after home video took off
  <daftykins> heh
  <daftykins> sure but there's a generational element isn't there
  <neuro> VHS, Betamax, DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, TiVo, PVRs, YouTube ... and the broadcast channels just keep on goin'
  <daftykins> just the other day at lunch with friends one was referring to his parents rushing off home to catch a program Â¬_Â¬ sounded so sad
  <penguin42> neuro: And what's wrong with video 2000 ?
  <neuro> some people actually enjoy the social aspect of watching at point of broadcast
  <popey> yeah, i do
  <neuro> penguin42: sorry!!! v2000 was frickin' awesome! double sided video tapes!!
  <popey> i like to watch some programmes as they air
  <daftykins> how-so? talking about it the day after?
  <popey> not seeing spoilers for one
  <neuro> daftykins: i mean ... take that example you just gave us
  <neuro> those parents were going to enjoy watching that programme as it aired, together
  <popey> and interacting
  <popey> e.g. Doctor Who for the first example, and Question Time for the second
  <neuro> and maybe they were really looking forward to seeing it, and didn't want to wait until watching it recorded later
  <neuro> good examples
  <popey> everything else I pvr
  <neuro> and the new media aspect can enhance shared live viewing
  <popey> I never watch stuff live on commercial TV
  <popey> alsways 15 mins or more offset so I can skip ads
  <neuro> cf twitter, zeebox, etc
  <daftykins> i keep trying to pause and rewind any live TV when i'm subjected to it :(
  <neuro> daftykins: with a decent PVR, you can
  <daftykins> that's not the point imo
  <neuro> what is the point?
  <neuro> :)
  <popey> watching Question Time with twitter on the laptop is fun âº
  <daftykins> i think broadcast is outmoded for current generations
  <popey> depending who is on it and the topic of the week
  <popey> if by "current generation" you mean people under 25, I agre
  <popey> +e
  <popey> they have zero attention span
  <popey> </generalisation>
  <neuro> daftykins: i disagree with outmoded
  <daftykins> say i go to a friends and they say, oh hey have you seen series x?
  <daftykins> "oh no i haven't"
  <neuro> otherwise for every live event ever, we'd just put the event in the middle of a field somewhere, film it and upload it on youtube
  <neuro> who needs spectators?
  <daftykins> ok let's play an episode from this lovely on-demand subscription service i have here
  <brobostigon> was a good ep of question time the other day, ian hislop was on.
  <neuro> daftykins: replace "on-demand subscription service" with "this handy DVD", or "this convenient VHS bought in a shop" or "this fabulous recording I made from the TV"
  <popey> ooh.. you missed VideoCD!
  <neuro> or "this 8mm film I took from the TV"
  <neuro> crap
  <popey> âº
  <neuro> and laserdisc
  <popey> lasterdisc was readonly tho
  <popey> (I was gonna mention that too) ;)
  <neuro> well i was talking about buying a tv series from a shop as well as home recording
  <daftykins> neuro: not sufficient given release delays / decisions not to even produce
  <popey> ok âº
  <neuro> daftykins: all that's changed is the speed of releases
  <daftykins> with regard to what?
  <neuro> your point
  <neuro> it took years for some US cinema releases to reach the UK
  <neuro> it would take months for home video releases to come after theatrical release
  <daftykins> this sounds like a tangent
  <neuro> not really
  <neuro> you're talking about introducing some new content to a friend who hasn't seen it before
  <neuro> and taking the use case of something like netflix to make it
  <daftykins> that was the example scenario, the means was the service
  <shauno> that's the one part of broadcast I really want to see die.  geolocking markets doesn't work anymore.
  <neuro> i'm just saying there have always been ways to introduce new content to people, they were just slower
  <neuro> or less convienent
  <daftykins> shauno: indeed
  <popey> Oooh!
  <neuro> agreed with that
  <popey> Watching itv2 - Toy Story right now..
  <popey> adverts came on
  <daftykins> neuro: well that bears no relevance to what i'm thinking about
  <popey> Sam said "can we skip it?"
  <popey> "no"
  <popey> "Why not?"
  <popey> heh
  <neuro> daftykins: i have no idea what point you're trying to make then
  <neuro> popey: synchronicity :)
  <daftykins> pesky adverts
   * popey muted the telly
  <popey> time for tea
  <neuro> daftykins: i'm trying to say that you're talking about replacements for broadcast media that in some way have always been there
  <daftykins> neuro: that a nice online service you pay for access to would let you have the freedom to watch whatever whenever
  <neuro> yeah
  <neuro> amazon
  <shauno> ironically, the reason geolocking doesn't work is because broadcast does.  I want to see shows at the same time (Â±) that my friends do
  <daftykins> sure, but media is wasteful
  <neuro> or going down to HMV or Tower or Virgin Megastore and buying the video
  <neuro> or renting it
  <daftykins> again, outmoded
  <neuro> no, just obsoleted
  <neuro> the actual *activity* hasn't really changed
  <daftykins> now you're arguing semantics
  <neuro> just the method of consumption and the convenience of access
  <neuro> no, i'm really not
  <penguin42> hmm I guess with things like online film rentals are bunches of people all renting the same thing at the same time?
  <daftykins> i'm sorry but i find this incredibly tedious, so i'm going to stop now
  <neuro> the only real danger i can see to "broadcast" media is indie content makers getting more eyes onto their content via youtube, etc
  <neuro> that's the real disruptor
  <daftykins> we're not on the same page and i don't feel i have the will in me to be bothered making it so
  <neuro> not so much that the consumption method is different, but that the creation method has less of a barrier to entry
  <neuro> wow
  <neuro> ok, fair enough
  <neuro> LET'S TALK ABOUT KITTENS
  <neuro> THEY ARE NON-THREATENING AND FLUFFY
  <daftykins> you are free to enjoy watching broadcast and i shall resume this paused file i have here as and when i wish :>
  <neuro> i thought you didn't have the will to be bothered
  <daftykins> no need to push it
  <neuro> my point was that the paused file you're watching would not exist but for the broadcast model
  <popey> reasons why I hate my kids watching adverts...
  <neuro> they want stuff?
  <popey> i just told them I don't like them singing advert jingles and stuff
  <neuro> uh oh
  <popey> (sophie sang "funky pidgeon dot com")
  <daftykins> popey: XD
  <neuro> haha
  <neuro> pwned
  <popey> then sam said "For embarrasing moments there huggies, sponsors of you've been framed"
  <daftykins> neuro: let it go :)
  <popey> which made me wtf even more
  <neuro> daftykins: what?
  <daftykins> i'm tempted to up a vid to YBF to try and get the money
  <neuro> why did you say let it go?
  <neuro> i was talking to popey
  <daftykins> ok
  <popey> i have a vid of wifey on holiday in the sea, big wave comes in and her boobs pop out
  <popey> kids keep asking me to send it in to YBF
  <daftykins> XD
  <daftykins> may make more money elsewhere.
  <daftykins> *cough*
  <neuro> popey: just give in and let them sing jingles, as i believe everything in demolition man will one day come true
  <popey> hah
  <neuro> except for the three seashells, as I don't think that was fully explained to my satisfaction
  <daftykins> i better learn the taco bell menu
  <neuro> :)
  <neuro> and stop eating salt, as it's bad for you and therefore is illegal
  <neuro> WILL BE, WILL BE illegal
  <shauno> yet taco bell took over the world.  not exactly healthfood
  <daftykins> tell you what they should outlaw before that
  <neuro> pepper?
  <daftykins> people that put things on food before trying it first
  <neuro> OOOH scum
  <daftykins> inorite, unacceptable!
  <solarcloud_3srcn> pepperoni !
  <neuro> and people who say they don't like stuff without trying it
  <daftykins> neuro: the animals D:
  <neuro> they need a slap
  <shauno> (obiligatory horse burger joke here)
  <neuro> lol
  <neuro> HORSE BURGER? NEIGH PROBLEM!
  <solarcloud_3srcn> lol
  <neuro> haha, it's funny because i'm scottish, and i'd say "no" as "nay"
  <neuro> hmm, chrome and its 50-odd tabs wants me to restart it to do an update
  <solarcloud_3srcn> over here yes is "tay" in manx .. sounds similar..
  <neuro> i think chrome and I will have to have words
  <neuro> acht, sod it, the word is: command-q
  <daftykins> in FF at least file -> exit keeps all the tabs
  <neuro> it does/can in chrome too
  <neuro> i just hate reloading all those tabs
  <daftykins> i have to do that because a client of mine keeps 3+ windows with 20+ tabs each constantly =|
  <neuro> and why chrome always wants to use my GTX 640M instead of the intel lightweight GPU is beyond me
  <neuro> i think it's a flash thing
  <popey> so now I tell the kids it's tea time...
  <neuro> and?
  <penguin42> daftykins: ?!
  <popey> "Can you pause the telly!"
  <neuro> well, can't you?
  <popey> i put stuff on food before trying it
  <neuro> SCUM!
  <popey> e.g. mustard or horseraddish on beef
  <popey> mint sauce on lamb
  <popey> etc
  <daftykins> penguin42: yeah :( technology abuse my non-understanders
  <neuro> well, i think daftykins meant "trying it for the first time" (although i may be wrong?)
  <penguin42> daftykins: hmm, you can always bookmark the set of tabs
  <neuro> surely by now you know what beef and lamb tastes like
  <popey> i used to work with someone who was unable to have two items of food in her mouth at once
  <popey> had to eat meat then eat some veg
  <daftykins> nah i meant if you go to a restaurant, so you don't know their food, why put stuff on before sampling it without 0o
  <popey> never put meat and veg on the fork
  <popey> it was hilarious to watch
  <daftykins> popey: dear god, my old man's the opposite - he has to have one piece of every food item on the plate per forkload
  <neuro> :)
  <daftykins> that however, is painful to watch
  <popey> hah
  <daftykins> he takes 3x longer than anyone else to eat
  <neuro> that sounds backwards
  <neuro> surely having bits of all the food on the plate, he'd be finished faster than someone putting one or two bits on the fork
  <popey> other people are odd
  <popey> all of them
  <neuro> yup
  <neuro> you're odd
  <neuro> i'm not
  <neuro> this talk about food is making me hungry though
  <neuro> and i had a pot noodle for lunch, and that's not exactly food
   * popey has left-overs from roast dinner
  <daftykins> i don't like roasts and yet it's what's tonight :(
  <penguin42> oh, send them over here then
  <popey> outrage!
  <daftykins> ^_^
  <daftykins> that reminds me, i was going to look up a film i never saw
  <penguin42> which?
  <daftykins> err, that Bruce Willis and kid that sees ghosts one
  <penguin42> Sixth sense?
  <daftykins> that's the one ja
  <daftykins> though i've already had it ruined over the years naturally =/
  <penguin42> good film
  <solarcloud_3srcn> penguin42: My best film of all time .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i9u9Ps7zh4
  <daftykins> people should be shot for uploading videos at the wrong aspect ratio
  <mgdm> that's slightly extreme
  <daftykins> if taken literally, yeah
  <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: Hmm, those are 'ok'
   * penguin42 prefers High planes drifter
  <popey> Sunday afternoon is: Children brushing my hair and putting it in a pony tail.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Apt request : can popey have a feather in his hair please, as a feature ?
  <daftykins> popey: you have long hair? 0o
   * solarcloud_3srcn Maps the t'internet .. ::: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/AK38c.jpg
  <daftykins> i wonder what a sea of downoads is
  <solarcloud_3srcn> not an aacount-an-see anyway !! haha..
  <penguin42> daftykins: /var/cache/apt/archives?
  <daftykins> penguin42: i was just being a spelling pedant
  <daftykins> also i frequently run a good clean ^_^
  <daftykins> and purge my older kernels
  <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: I'm sure the cats must occupy a larger area of the internet
  <solarcloud_3srcn> penguin, true, but is 'occupy'still going, in your part of the woods ?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> take that as a no
  <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: haha well I didn't mean that occupy; I think in this part of the woods they got as far as about 3 tents on a piece of grass near the town hall for about a week
  <penguin42> a year or so ago
  <solarcloud_3srcn> They still meet on a mumble server believe it or not !
  <penguin42> has mumble got any better? It used to be almost but not entirely possible to get the audio to work reliably
  <solarcloud_3srcn> no
  <solarcloud_3srcn> everyone gets frustrated with mumble .. needs crowdfunding ... !!
  <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: I guess they keep trying to have meetings to discuss it but ....
  <solarcloud_3srcn> lol
  <solarcloud_3srcn> could be forked easy enough, if i recall.
  <alex__> alex
  <alex__> Fine, don't ask me then
  <meet> Which is a good light weight distro using ubuntu? I plan to use it from a live usb and use it in my college to do practical work and classes
  <AlanBell> I would just use Ubuntu
  <daftykins> meet: xubuntu is lighter
  <ali1234> "portable" ubuntu
  <meet> ali1234 is there such thing?
  <ali1234> can you install nvidia driver and amd driver onto a live usb, and then have it still work correctly?
  <ali1234> meet: yes, use the live usb creator
  <AlanBell> yes with the persistent partition thing
  <ali1234> but i would expect issues now that ubuntu requires a working 3d driver
  <ali1234> since getting that to work is highly machine dependent
  <ali1234> i would go with a distro that doesn't have this requirement
  <ali1234> and nobody better even think of saying llvmpipe is a workable replacement for 3d acceleration, because it isn't
  <AlanBell> not entirely sure that you can install the nvidia drivers then go use an ATI machine and install drivers for that and then flip about between all kinds of machines and have it just work
  <AlanBell> but maybe you can
  <meet> Daftykins are these the lightest distros out there? I also will not need thunderbird and all that bloat
  <daftykins> meet: well with a persistent install, you can just remove packages...
  <ali1234> the lightest distro are also hard to use
  <ali1234> removing packages that you don;t use won't make the system run faster
  <daftykins> meet: are you sure you can even boot your own OS in a College? most machines are locked down in such places
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: How was London ??
  <AlanBell> cold
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ok, fair enough.
  <meet> Daftykins ya I checked the other day. I was able to boot from a USB
  <solarcloud_3srcn> meet: You could try, Lubuntu , I do, and it's fine.
  <meet> Ali1234 so is there any thing which is ubuntu based and has unneeded softwares removed like the music player and all
  <daftykins> meet: you might get told off for that. even if it works, wouldn't there be a web proxy to block net access? or is it not really a well provisioned college?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Lubuntu.
  <ali1234> meet: why worry.just having stuff on  usb disk isn't going to slow anything down
  <ali1234> the killer is unity
  <solarcloud_3srcn> yes, Unity is not in Lubuntu.
  <meet> Daftykins you may say that ;-)
  <daftykins> ^_^
  <MartijnVdS> Which pay-as-you-go SIM should I get? Or does anyone know a website where I can compare deals?
  <daftykins> meet: just be sure not to mount the local disks, that may make them angry :>
  <solarcloud_3srcn> MartijnVdS: For the UK ?
  <meet> Ya. Probably won't need them at all
  <MartijnVdS> yes
  <daftykins> when i was teaching at a College i still knew the BIOS passwords so i booted liveUSBs to show students stuff, but one time it caused the system to fsck itself
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: I'll be going there soon.. and I want a SIM for my mifi :)
  <daftykins> which was odd 'cause i didn't even mount them i don't think 0o
  <solarcloud_3srcn> dunno , I'm in an enclave called the Isle of Man. soz.
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: for data, three are the best value, and have the best data i have ever had.
  <MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3srcn: the more data the better :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: even in remote places (I'll be going to Land's End)
  <MartijnVdS> ?
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also, three payg, for Â£15 do no fup unlimited data,
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that does sound good
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: lands end, i dont know, not been.
  <solarcloud_3srcn> MartijnVdS: Say hello to the Lizard, for me ^_^
  <ali1234> do three still do that unlimited free skype to skype calls with other three users?
  <brobostigon> no idea, ali1234
  <meet> Daftykins - haha! Ok then I will opt for ubuntu with an l. Btw will I able to install jdk and everythng else normaly?
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll post photos ;)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be going in May
  <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
  <daftykins> meet: again, hit up pendrivelinux.com and learn about persistent installs.
  <meet> ok. I was planning to use unetbootin which I felt was easy
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Strong winds forecast for lower Wales tonite, BTW.
  <ali1234> use live image creator tool in ubuntu
  <ali1234> unetbootin does not set up a proper persistent portable install
  <solarcloud_3srcn> agreed.
  <MartijnVdS> neither does it set up EFI properly
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: What was the meeting you are doing in the #meeting channel ?
  <AlanBell> IRC Council
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ah, elders only, ...
   * solarcloud_3srcn is merely a padawan ;)
  <meet> Ali1234 is it ubuntu only?
  <solarcloud_3srcn> meet not that I recall.
  <AlanBell> startup disk creator is what it is called
  <meet> Ok... Will search for that.  thanks everyone :-)
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: Have got any response from your shopping app. yet ? i.e. can they give feedback on the gnome page ?
  <AlanBell> there are some comments here https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/564/amazon-shopping/
  <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
  <AlanBell> it hasn't really generated any revenue at all, which is interesting
  <AlanBell> about 15 clicks or something
  <directhex> banshee used to contribute thousands to gnome, but since people started dumping banshee, those numbers are rather sad now
  <AlanBell> dunno if I am reading it right, might be 1262 views of detail pages, 15 of them clicked on other stuff
  <AlanBell> there was a comment from the reviewer saying that I might like to talk to the foundation about getting the shopping thing in by default
  <AlanBell> but as it generates no money at the moment it is rather an academic point
  <solarcloud_3srcn> AlanBell: that would be good, Does it take up much server time, your side or not /
  <solarcloud_3srcn> ?
  <AlanBell> no, hardly any
  <solarcloud_3srcn> k
  <solarcloud_3srcn> well at least you've opened it up, for everyone .. kudos to AlanBell !!
  <directhex> is semi-integrated shopping right in the OS something people want? i can't say i've used it in unity either
  <AlanBell> probably not
  <AlanBell> would be interesting to know if there is any revenue from the unity shopping lens, I expect there is a bit
  <directhex> I'm not saying "YOU SUCK STOP HACKING" i just wanbt to better understand the usage patterns
  <AlanBell> I actually quite like it as a concept personally
  <ali1234> i don't want integrated anything :/
  <AlanBell> and I think you should always nominate an affiliate code when shopping on Amazon as a moral principal
  <AlanBell> otherwise you are just giving the commission to Amazon on top of their profit margin
  <ali1234> because capitalism is the ultimate moral philosophy, right?
  <AlanBell> consumerism ftw
  <AlanBell> but if you do shop on Amazon you get to give a 5% kickback to any good cause of your choosing that has an affiliate ID
  <ali1234> which is basically none, as we found
  <daftykins> hrmm does OS X read and write on NTFS yet, anyone know?
  <AlanBell> and if Jeff Bezos is your chosen good cause, then carry on shopping from a browser :)
  <ali1234> if everyone uses affiliate codes they'll just put the prices up 5%
  <ali1234> you can't win this game
  <ali1234> the only way is to not play
  <AlanBell> my kids school has an affiliate code, lots of small places do
  <ali1234> a large number of the shops on amazon have their own websites too. what you should really do is search amazon, then google for their site and buy there
  <ali1234> if you have some problem with giving bezos money that is
  <AlanBell> yes, that is good, if they do the shipping
  <AlanBell> lots of places have given up on logistics and just put all their stuff in an Amazon warehouse and let Amazon deal with it
  <daftykins> 'fulfilled by Amazon'
  <daftykins> definitely tougher to find stuff *actually* sold by them lately i find
  <daftykins> unless there's a trick to it i don't know of
  <ali1234> there is. select "super saver delivery" only
  <ali1234> the small shops may do free delivery but it's not the same so they get filtered
  <daftykins> that's one step later
  <daftykins> is it not?
  <ali1234> yes
  <ali1234> but i feel you might be asking for a "do what i want" button
  <daftykins> not really.
  <daftykins> btw that sounds very arrogant
  <ali1234> well, complaining about 1 extra click to buy something sounds like first world problems
  <ali1234> bug 994921
  <lubotu3> bug 994921 in apport (Ubuntu Quantal) "'ubuntu-bug /var/crash/app.crash' (and even more so, 'apport-cli -c /var/crash/app.crash') should still allow manual bug filing in stable releases" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994921
  <daftykins> wasn't really a complaint, perhaps you just read my statement with the attitude you carry around?
  <czajkowski> evening
  <daftykins> hi
  <czajkowski> daftykins: hows things
  <daftykins> not bad thanks! getting closer to my house buying completion on the 5th :) and you?
  <czajkowski> good thanks, busy but looking for to FOSDEM next weekend
  <daftykins> ah-har
   * solarcloud_3srcn finishes his 3 for a pound cadbury's creme egg and wonder's why Uncle Sam owns them now ...
  <daftykins> mmm creme eggs
  <solarcloud_3srcn> they are nice. but they are /were mine, and not Terry's !
  <solarcloud_3srcn> Brace yourself the 'Easter Egg's2 posts are coming ...
  <solarcloud_3srcn>                                                                                                                                                        .
  <brobostigon> is there a html frontend for get-iplayer? something that will alow my mum to use get-iplayer without her having to learn the terminal commands.
  <ali1234> yeah. it's at bbc.co.uk/iplayer
  <brobostigon> haha
  <directhex> yes
  <ali1234> i'm serious btw. they have download links for "portable media devices" which is what get-iplayer fetches
  <ali1234> right under the actual embedded video
  <directhex> http://linuxcentre.net/getiplayer/get_iplayer-pvr-manager
  <brobostigon> interesting, thank you directhex
  <ali1234> actually those website downloads are wmv nonsense
  <brobostigon> they are flv and then converted into mp4 with ffmpeg, as popey pointed out a few days ago.
  <ali1234> get-iplayer is
  <ali1234> the iplayer website serves up wmv files
  <ali1234> you have to play it in windows media player to obtain a license and then transfer the license to your player along with the file
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-20
  <directhex> sounds like he'd be a great fit working for NetApp
  <daftykins> do they enjoy matchstick storage setups?
  <directhex> they enjoy piles of crazy disks
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <knightwise> morning
  <MooDoo> morning
  <knightwise> morning MooDoo
  <knightwise> how are you
  <MooDoo> knightwise: i'm ok thanks :) could do with more weekend :D
  <knightwise> me too
  <knightwise> been spending far too much time on my laptop this weekend
  <knightwise> Had an issue with my wifi on my ubuntu machine
  <knightwise> looks like one of the last driver updates gives it some trouble in playing nice with a mixed N/G network
  <knightwise> distro rolled to debian and mint , only to find the same problem :(
  <MooDoo> booo
  <knightwise> true . I am getting constant tcp retransmissions
  <knightwise> and i'm having zero issues with all the other machines on the network
  <knightwise> problem started appearing when I got my new router
  <knightwise> so its the combo new router/latest driver on ubuntu thats the culprit
  <popey> Good morning
  <knightwise> morning popey
  <Myrtti> popey: may I recommend - if you sprinkle salt on your poached/boiled eggs, get Herbamare from somewhere
  <popey> ooh, spooky. Just finished nomming poached eggs
  <popey> ooh, that looks tasty
  <TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
  <Myrtti> popey: it's not spooky as I'm myself still more or less on UK time and finished my staple breakfast myself just now
  <Myrtti> ;-)
  <Myrtti> just good timing
  <popey> â»
  <knightwise> anyone else have any experience with slow wifi on 13.10 if you use it in a combined G/N network ?
  <Myrtti> it's a supermarket essential over here but I had to order some from Amazon to have it in UK as I forgot to bring some over
  <Myrtti> holland and barretts might have it tho
  <popey> oh, amazon uk sell it
  <Myrtti> oh yes
  <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bioforce-Herbamare-Herb-Salt-Pack-nom-nom-nom/dp/B009F7M3UE
  <Myrtti> I would order one smaller pot at first ;-)
  <Myrtti> unless you plan to bribe your relatives with it
  <popey> heh
  <Myrtti> yes it's expensive per weight if you buy a small pot but then you don't like it then you've saved money
  <Myrtti> now quite intrigued by the 'spicy' variant.
  <Myrtti> never tried
  <Myrtti> knightwise: I just have wifi and connection problems all the time with all my kit :-|
  <knightwise> yeah, but this is the first time i'm having serious issues
  <knightwise> the ubuntu machine gets tcp retransmissions and stuff
  <knightwise> while all the other hosts don't have any problem
  <popey> knightwise: intel wifi?
  <knightwise> yep
  <knightwise> its on a Lenovo Twist laptop
  <popey> known issue, disable N
  <knightwise> Disable N on the laptop or on the router ,
  <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/119578/how-to-fix-slow-wireless-on-machines-with-intel-wireless-cards
  <popey> laptop
  <directhex> laptop
  <directhex> intel /o\
  <popey> see the answer there at the top
  <directhex> this specific issue is why i cringe when people praise intel blindly
   * knightwise wish he had known this before he nuked his entire machine
  <directhex> well.actually.cat
  <knightwise> I gave debian a try over hte weekend , and after you do your upgrades .. same thing happens
  <popey> poke intel with a stick
  <knightwise> and when I had an apple airport extreme router .. no problems ...
  <popey> it's been broken for months
  <knightwise> popey: thanx for the tip
  <popey> np
  <popey> sorry it's not good news
  <knightwise> i'll probably reinstall my machine with Xubuntu or Lubuntu
  <knightwise> make it a little leaner
  <knightwise> at least now I know what to do
  <knightwise> funny think is , the intel card doesnt even see the N network
  <directhex> years.
  <knightwise> hmmmm. currently trying out mobaxterm on windows
  <knightwise> nice terminal app
  <knightwise> better then putty
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Day Of Acceptance! :-D
  <knightwise> hey JamesTait
   * DJones doesn't accept that its "Day of acceptance"
  <JamesTait> Hey knightwise. :)
  <JamesTait> DJones, http://www.3elove.com/pages/idoa
  <JamesTait> It's on the internet, it must be true. ;)
  <JamesTait> It's also Penguin Appreciation Day, apparently.
  <diplo> Morning all
  <daubers> Morning
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <popey> yo
   * popey is updating to trusty
  <foobarry> crusty?
  <popey> fresh!
  <bigcalm> I hope to be starting with trusty on Wednesday
  <bigcalm> Oh, best send a tweet
  <bigcalm> (I took the weekend off)
  <AlanBell> popey: with or without xmir?
  <popey> I'm just upgrading at the moment
   * daubers goes to steal a company credit card to book parking
  <knightwise> popey: would it be advised to try the alpha of 14.04 ?
  <knightwise> for kinda daily use ?
  <knightwise> or does it fall down every time a flee sneezes
  <popey> well, I only just updated
  <Myrtti> /o\ I might have just recruited some knitters into cleaning and packing my apartment up for moving to UK. Payment in food, yarn and furniture
  <popey> oh, you're actually moving over here permanently?
  <Myrtti> landlord wants the apartment, makes no sense to start looking for a new place here
  <directhex> IMMIGRANTS!
  <directhex> HERE FOR OUR BENEFITS AND TEA!
  <daubers> WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BISCUITS?
  <Myrtti> I was actually planning on paying taxes?
  <foobarry> radical
  <popey> bigcalm: what's with those spy camera tweets?
  <popey> i saw it the other day and then again a few days later and thought my twitter was broken
  <bigcalm> ;)
  <bigcalm> popey: google it :)
  <bigcalm> It's more amusing if you already know the reference
  <popey> oh, your laptop?
  <bigcalm> Yus
  <diplo> Anyone use a SVN gui in here like Tortoise on windows ?
  <diplo> If so, any recommendations
  <AlanBell> access #libertos list
  <AlanBell> fail
  <diplo> :D
  <foobarry> diplo: redmine?
  <Seeker`> AlanBell: your / key is staging a mutiny?
  <foobarry> although i don't know this windows you speak of
  <diplo> Sorry, meant local to OS.. svn log/st etc
  <AlanBell> Seeker`: finger trouble this morning ;)
  <diplo> Redmine is a web app task type thing isn't it
  <foobarry> yes
  <Myrtti> how bad is it on the scale from 0 to 10 that we started putting stuff related to the move to a Trello board?
  <AlanBell> diplo: yeah, with integration with various version control things
  <diplo> Yeah, this is for running on my PC. I like to use tortoise as quick way to scroll through logs on certain commits
  <diplo> Used Rabbit before but it seemed quite bugged
  <diplo> buggy*
  <diplo> http://rabbitvcs.org/
  <AlanBell> Myrtti: not too bad, I would say about pi
  <foobarry> do they need to be named after animals?
  <bigcalm> AlanBell: speaking of Pi. Any project updates?
  <jussi> hrm, what day is it today... Ive totally lost track...
  <AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, I have a stack of pi devices arrived today :)
  <AlanBell> bigcalm: and I am preparing some other updates shortly
  <bigcalm> yay
  <foobarry> do i have to quit all libreoffice apps to get it to reload list of pritners? calc, impress, writer etc?
  <Seeker`> jussi: November 5th 1955
  <jussi>  /me smacks Seeker`
  <foobarry> it's $today
  <foobarry> `date`
  <jussi> Seeker`: my calendar says sunday, but that doesnt seem right. maybe the meds have really messed with my head...
  <Seeker`> jussi: its monday
  <foobarry> if irc is busy with talk of food and work, then its monday
  <jussi> foobarry: yeah, true tha
  <jussi> t
  <jussi> I guess this si the reason they made me sign a thing to not make any important decisions while on these meds.
  <Seeker`> what meds?
  <Seeker`> jussi: ^
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone
  <jussi> Seeker`: some opiate based stuff they have me on for pain relief after cutting the back of my throat out
  <jussi> morning brobostigon
  <Seeker`> sounds fun
  <brobostigon> morning jussi
  <Seeker`> which part of the back of your throat did they cut out?
  <jussi> Seeker`: anythign but. its a world of pain
  <jussi> Seeker`: in english? some part of the tonsils - the special ones at the back that have to do with swallowing
  <jussi> nielurisat (I think) in finnish
  <jussi> Myrtti: can probably translate better than I.
  <Seeker`> that just translates to tonsils according to google
  <foobarry> i just had a look in #ubuntu-fi
  <foobarry> is it mostly lurkers?
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: no, the Finnish are a quiet people who don't talk much ;)
  <jussi> Seeker`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatine_tonsil
  <foobarry> thats why jussi and Myrtti don't even lurk in there?
  <Seeker`> jussi: ah, ok
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <brobostigon> morning davmor2
   * popey migrates laptop from ext4 to btrfs
  <popey> \o/
  <directhex> butterfs!
  <popey> ButterFuss!
  <foobarry> butterkist
  <Myrtti> foobarry: it's mainly support, the interesting discussions which rarely if ever happen, happen elsewhere
  <Myrtti> besides I don't really parcipate to any of their events of which I'm not sure they even have
  <Myrtti> no reason to stay - so I'm not there
  <daubers> popey: I built a btrfs array for home over the weekend
  <bashrc> nice
  <popey> â»
  <daubers> got it serving up roaming profiles to my windows machines as well using Samba4 as the domain controller
  <YaManicKill> Anyone have any experience with RAID usb devices that *aren't* drobos? I know drobos are brilliant and you'd all recommend them blah blah, but I don't have that kinda money just now :-P
  <daubers> need to get my linux machines authenticating to it and using it for home folders now
  <daubers> drobos suck
  <bashrc> I don't have any windows machines anymore
  <YaManicKill> daubers: well, that's one I've not heard before :-P
  <daubers> YaManicKill: Ask popey, he had much mirth with them :)
  <popey> well
  <popey> some mirth
  <popey> I wouldn't buy another one
  <Seeker`> popey: just out of interest, are there any pieces of paper in your house which aren't laminated right now?
  <popey> hah, some
  <Seeker`> popey: those are the sheets which are too large to fit in the laminator?
  <popey> indeed
  <davmor2> popey: did you manage to get the house through the laminator in the end?
  <popey> â»
  <davmor2> popey: you know the garden shed tends to just be 7 sheets of really thick paper like material right?
  <davmor2> popey: trees are made of paper too so those can go through
  <daubers> popey: bonuspoints for laminating davmor2
  <bigcalm> popey: btfs will work well on a single SSD in a laptop?
  <popey> bigcalm: why not?
  <YaManicKill> popey: is that drobos in general? or hardware RAID controllers overall?
  <bigcalm> popey: I have no idea, I'm asking you :)
  <daubers> YaManicKill: Drobo != RAID
  <popey> bigcalm: ext4 will work well on a single SSD in a laptop?
  <daubers> YaManicKill: Drop = some weird proprietary raid like thing
  <davmor2> popey: does btrfs have the optimisations for ssd's
  <daubers> davmor2: Yes
  <popey> it knows what an SSD is
  <daubers> It supports TRIM and the like
  <davmor2> daubers: thanks popey ;)  I was assuming it would but thought I'd ask
  <directhex> the value of Dogecoin, buoyed by association with Jamaican bobsledders, combined with a 20M DOGE donation, means Jamaica should now have sufficient funding to send its 2-man bobsled team to the Sochi winter olympics
  <directhex> this is a real thing.
  <YaManicKill> daubers: oh reaaally. Now that I didn't know.
  <YaManicKill> That explains a lot, and makes my decision easier.
  <YaManicKill> Ok, well let me change my question...has anyone ever had any experience with hardware RAID controllers? I'm looking at buying one, and not sure what people think about them.
  <daubers> directhex: The future is weird
  <daubers> YaManicKill: Which brand/number of drives/Rreq'd RAID level?
  <davmor2> daubers: of course the future is weird we are in control of it
  <directhex> daubers, yes
  <YaManicKill> daubers: brand of hdd or RAID controller?
  <daubers> YaManicKill: RAID controller
  <YaManicKill> daubers: sharkoon, initially looking at 3 drives in RAID5 but with ability to expand up to the 5 the controller I'm looking at supports, but I could live with 4 easily.
  <YaManicKill> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sharkoon-5-Bay-Raid-Housing-inch-eSATA/dp/B004VJ4CSW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3DPPREXJEH156&coliid=I200GGSB0K5G74
  <YaManicKill> that's the one I'm looking at
  <bigcalm> popey: sure, so the default of ext4 is fine. But you mentioned that you were using btfs on your laptop. I assume that the laptop is using an SSD
  <daubers> Ah, ok, no idea what controller that will have inside :) Probably LSI
   * daubers only tends to deal in PCIe cards
  <bigcalm> Morning davmor2, how's the new toy?
  <YaManicKill> oh right. Yeah, this is for a mpc
  <davmor2> bigcalm: very nice till they broke the universe :)
  <YaManicKill> they don't mention anywhere on amazon or their website what controller they use
  <popey> bigcalm: yes, ssd
  <bigcalm> directhex: the amount has dropped to $684 :|
  <bigcalm> popey: I know nothing of btfs. What would be the advantage of using it on a single drive over etx4?
  <directhex> bigcalm, withdrawl
  <popey> it has features ext4 doesn't have
  <bigcalm> directhex: ah
  <diddledan> mornign
  <popey> and i have room for two SSDs in my laptop, so I could do funky thinks like mirroring
  <directhex> http://dogechain.info/address/DCLmwBUiY9EE8ND6FYtDfbFsiQD8LAZvAZ
  <bigcalm> Ooo
  <directhex> popey,  RAID0!
  <popey> tis quite fast rsyncing from one ssd to another
  <directhex> bigcalm, looks like most of the doge have been moved to http://dogechain.info/address/DDEgZ8YntMfbxjaYuem36xQCDAosyiaBfp
  <diddledan> wtf is a doge?
  <YaManicKill> dogecoin
  <YaManicKill> or doge themsevles?
  <diddledan> (I know of the doge meme, but that doesn't make sense with this)
  <YaManicKill> It's just a new cryptocurrency with lots of doges everywhere.
  <YaManicKill> Think bitcoin, but with everyone thinking doge is funny every second of every day
  <diddledan> huh?
  <YaManicKill> Do you know bitcoin?
  <diddledan> yeah, I know bitcoin - I'm failing to understand the link with a popculture meme
  <YaManicKill> The link is "We like doge, we like cryptocurrency, let's make a cryptocurrency with doge memes".
  <YaManicKill> It's got nothing on a technical level to do with it.
  <YaManicKill> They just put the meme everywhere on it.
  <YaManicKill> Stop trying to understand it. Just...accept it.
  <diddledan> ok, so it's called doge - has it been vetted like bitcoin has on an academic level to prove that it's impossible to just "invent" "coins"?
  <diddledan> .. and therefore that the inventors of the currency can't devalue your stock
  <YaManicKill> It uses lightcoin technology, so it depends on that one.
  <YaManicKill> As for your question, no idea.
  <diddledan> I don't get the point of cloning other currencies with a different key and claiming it's new and better
  <diddledan> it everyone clones everyone else then there'll be thousands of currencies all with next-to-no intrinsic value
  <YaManicKill> Yup.
  <diddledan> the reason bitcoin has value is because people want it
  <foobarry> just like beanie babies
  <YaManicKill> Wow, 1990s flashback.
  <diddledan> so it brings me back to "what's the point of dogecoin?"
  <davmor2> diddledan: I think you are over thinking it, Why do people climb mountains, pot hole, swim the channel.  Cause it is there! why do people make there own version of a currency cause it's there and they think they can get rich quick. ;)
  <Myrtti> oh dear crikey let all the cryptocurrencies burrrrnnnnnnnnn
  <foobarry> diddledan: a speculators tool
  <foobarry> like shares in china.com or whatever vacuous things people bought shares in during the .com bubble
  <foobarry> pasta ready-meal is creamy and contains nutmeg..tastes suspiciously like rice pudding which is a dessert. my mouth is confused
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> maybe it _is_ rice pudding?!
  <foobarry> because it also has bacon
  <diddledan> just in a different pot
  <diddledan> and with bacon
  <diddledan> wtf?!
  <foobarry> my mum used to make vermicelli pud like this
  <Myrtti> the concept of pudding/dessert is sometimes so confusing
  <Myrtti> in Finland rice pudding/barley pudding is tranlated into porridge. Rice porridge, barley porridge. It doesn't necessarily have a dessert connotation - so having barley porridge as a school lunch was a normal thing to occur once a month
  <foobarry> usually for me, bacon = main course, sweet stuff = dessert
  <foobarry> except breakfast, which is often sweet
  <Myrtti> sure, but Finns usually put a tiny bit of salt into rice porridge - it doesn't still mean that it can't be served as a dessert
  <popey> smells like lunchtime
   * popey looks for recipes for what to do with belly pork
  <bigcalm> popey: hog roast!
  <popey> yeah, i think so
  <davmor2> Myrtti: don't the finns add salt to everything? ;)
  <bigcalm> I can't believe that we ate a whole pig
  <popey> i can â»
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I wouldn't put anything past you :P
  <bigcalm> davmor2: It wasn't just me, popey helped
  <popey> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/11/nigel-slater-recipes-pork-belly
  <popey> gonna go for the first one in that list and roast it slowly
  <davmor2> bigcalm: oh well easy then :)
  <bigcalm> Oh, I think we have some ribs in the freezer. Might have them later in the week
  <diddledan> pig sounds tasty
  <davmor2> spiderpig
  <bigcalm> Not nice thought
  <diddledan> I wonder how long it'll be before chickens are crossed with spiders to get extra drumsticks
  <diddledan> and then the chickens will probably take over the world but that's another story
  <foobarry> or octopi
  <AlanBell> yay, spider chickens \o/
  <davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714-Ioa4XQw
  <diddledan> I for one welcome our new overlords
  <bigcalm> Time for me to leave IRC alone for a while
  <foobarry> married women lusting after gary barlow on my facebook feed :S
  <davmor2> bigcalm: that was my reference for spiderpig :)
  <bigcalm> davmor2: I know the video without looking at it. I just don't want to think about cooking and eating a pig that's part spider. Now I feel rather sick
  <davmor2> bigcalm: wuss insects are the food of the future did you not see QI
  <foobarry> my sister called from surrey with a laptop problem. ascertained that the backlight had gone, she shone a torch on the screen to see stuff :D
  <davmor2> bigcalm: Arachnids too
   * bigcalm hugs the /clear command
  <diddledan> think how mary jane feels about kissing spiderman?! </troll>
  <davmor2> diddledan: spiderman is a troll what films and comics have you been looking at?
  <diddledan> I thought spiderman was a spider.. man
  <foobarry> used the wrong gateway ip while in the server room while setting up drac :( have to go back to fix before i can see the servers
  <foobarry> stoopid non standard default gateway addresses
  <diddledan> fudge
  <diddledan> crickets!
  <foobarry> numpties
  <knightwise> aha , it appears the new version of Geary supports attaching files :)
  <knightwise> nice
  <directhex> it's the future!
  <knightwise> lol :)
  <knightwise> its a nice looking mail all
  <knightwise> app
  <directhex> wake me when it has caldav and ldap address books
  <BigRedS> I just want it to support multiple accounts
  <knightwise> true , that would be nice
  <BigRedS> caldav, address books would be *nice* but that seems to be to be a fairly necessary feature
  <DJones> I thought geary did support multiple accounts
  <knightwise> I thought it did came with a link to your address book ?
  <BigRedS> I'd have at least tried it by now if it could do that
  <knightwise> i like this interface though
  <knightwise> makes thunderbird look cluttered
  <popey> any UI is uncluttered when it's not finished
  <knightwise> true
  <knightwise> well .. at least its better then evolution
  <BigRedS> I'm not so concerned about thunderbird's clutteredness as I am its apparent need for half my ram
  <BigRedS> and the way that every GUI mail client seems to not bother checking folders until I click on them
  <diddledan> thunderbird is indeed memory hungry. it can bring even the mightiest of beasts to their knees
  <diddledan> like david and his adversary goliath
  <diddledan> only david is the bad guy in this tale, and goliath is us.
  <diddledan> wtf? maplin email today: "USD GPS Dongle with SiRF Star III GPS chipset. compatible with windows, macintosh and linux redhat 7.3"
  <diddledan> 7.3 is from way back in 1999
  <diddledan> afaicr
  <popey> \o/ migration to btrfs complete
  <diddledan> popey: that on your nas or your desktop?
  <popey> laptop
  <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ mount | grep btrfs
  <popey> /dev/sdb1 on / type btrfs (rw,noatime,nodiratime)
  <popey> /dev/sda1 on /home type btrfs (rw,noatime,nodiratime)
  <popey> \o/
  <diddledan> meh, laptop/dekstop :-p
  <diddledan> well done :-)
  <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ df -h | grep sd
  <popey> /dev/sdb1            231G  164G   65G  72% /
  <popey> /dev/sda1            224G  138G   85G  62% /home
  <popey> \o/
  <popey> need to remove my old home from /
  <popey> /dev/sdb1            231G   27G  202G  12% /
  <popey> \o/ much better
  <foobarry> strawberry licorice. nom
  <foobarry> i wonder if there's a .nom TLD
  <daubers> Airports are boring
  <Seeker`> daubers: which airport?
  <foobarry> all
  <Seeker`> Heathrow need to use higher resolition shadow maps for their planes
  <Seeker`> https://twitter.com/Simon_Fe1/status/362250251022778371/photo/1
  <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: 8-)
  <daubers> Seeker`: Heathrow T5
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: airports are fascinating. As long as you're just passing through on your commute ;)
  <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: I pointed that out to Simon_Fe on the way to LA :D
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: my bus goes via Schiphol airport
  <daubers> MartijnVdS: This kinda is a commute, off to Zurich for work for a couple of days
  <MartijnVdS> daubers: sure but not a daily one
  <daubers> MartijnVdS: Nah, a daily air commute would kill me
   * MartijnVdS actually considered a 4 days London/3 days Netherlands ("home") job once. Decided I'd probably go crazy instead :)
  <daubers> Urgh
   * Seeker` imagines a Mrs Doubtfire type situation
  <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: not THAT kind of job..
  <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: I meant the scene where he is running between a friend and the someonee else and forgets who is meant to be at which table
  <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: Yes, that sort of thing is why I didn't take it ;)
  <foobarry> .tattoo seems to be the most expensive TLD
  <foobarry> Â£200/year
  <Guest24851> Hi, a drive area which I partitioned won't mount, anyone know about this sort of thing?
  <Guest24851> I got this error message -
  <Guest24851> Error mounting system-managed device /dev/sda7: Command-line `mount "/mnt/d456c373-1d42-4b00-b9a3-1aad4f465d32"' exited with non-zero exit status 32: mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda7,
  <Guest24851>        missing codepage or helper program, or other error
  <Guest24851>        In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
  <Guest24851>        dmesg | tail  or so
  <foobarry> "A leading bookmaker has suspended betting on the Queen announcing her abdication by the end of the year after a large gamble was placed in the Windsor area."
  <foobarry> harry?
  <foobarry> charlie?
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: phil?
  <foobarry> philly? has one been to the bookies again?
  <DJones> Nah, Camilla
  <MartijnVdS> I wonder how many people bet on the day before (or the day after) she reaches "longest reigning monarch"
  <YaManicKill> ha
  <foobarry> nfs server has iowait , how to determine the busy user?
  <popey> foobarry: iotop?
  <popey> sudo iotop -o
  <foobarry> shows nfsd processes..
  <foobarry> i could follow via netstat -p
  <foobarry> nope
  <bigcalm> #ubuntu-uk has contempt, but for what?
  <directhex> court
  <Laney> due process
  <davmor2> bigcalm: people asking what we have contempt for?
  <bubu> Hey guys, I think a package is pulling in ruby1.8, and I would like to know which package this is. It's being installed and update-alternatives is updating to point to it instead of ruby 2.
  <bubu> ~$ apt-cache rdepends ruby1.8 --installed
  <bubu> ruby1.8
  <bubu> Reverse Depends:
  <bubu>  |passenger-dev
  <bubu>  |passenger
  <bubu>  |crash-watch
  <bubu> but I have other nodes with passenger on that haven't pulled in ruby1.8 ....
   * bubu scratches head
  <popey> bubu: try "aptitude why ruby1.8"
  <bubu> popey: i A passenger    Depends    ruby2.0 | ruby1.9.1 | ruby1.8 | ruby-interpreter
  <bubu> but that doesn't make sense to me, I have passenger on another node, and that hasn't had ruby1.8 installed on it..
  <popey> rubygems wants it here
  <bubu> huh?
  <popey> i am on 14.04 tho
  <bubu> am 12.04
  <shauno> bubu: on a fresh 12.04 (well, Vagrant, anyway), ruby points to 1.8.  is there a chance you installed ruby 2 on the other node?
  <bubu> nope
  <bubu> josh@ci4:~$ dpkg -l | grep ruby
  <bubu> ii  libruby1.9.1                                   1.9.3.0-1ubuntu2.8                  Libraries necessary to run Ruby 1.9.1
  <bubu> ii  ruby-2.0.0-p353                                2.0.0-p353                          no description given
  <bubu> ii  ruby-daemon-controller                         1.1.8-1~precise1                    Library for robust daemon management
  <bubu> ii  ruby-rack                                      1.3.5-1                             Modular Ruby webserver interface
  <bubu> ii  ruby1.9.1                                      1.9.3.0-1ubuntu2.8                  Interpreter of object-oriented scripting lang
  <bubu> looks like texlive-full installs ruby1.8 ...
  <shauno> this is what I have on a fresh image of precise-cloud; http://paste.ubuntu.com/6787672/
  <shauno> so I guess my question isn't why this machine is installing 1.8, but why the other machine has 2
  <bubu> shauno: thanks but its not a fresh install
  <bubu> looks like texlive-full installs ruby1.8
  <bubu> I'm using chef, so chef runs, installs ruby 2, updates alternatives etc. then libtex-full is installed which pulls in ruby1.8 which updates-alternatives again to be helpful
  <bubu> is there a way to install a package like texlive-full, but not install the ruby 1.8 it then tries to install?
  <BigRedS> presumably texlive-full depends on ruby 1.8?
  <BigRedS> oh, it's a metapackage. Well, you could install all of its dependencies bar those which depend on ruby1.8
  <bubu> BigRedS: How can I do that?
  <bubu> I could apt-get download textlive-full and then force install that deb file using dpkg but that feels nasty and possibly broken
  <BigRedS> you could look at the depends list and install all of it that doesn't pull in ruby1.8
  <BigRedS> I think there's a way to blacklist a package but I can't remember
  <BigRedS> so you don't accidentally install it
  <bubu> --ignore-depends ?
  <SuperMatt> Hi
  <BigRedS> if you put ruby1.8 on hold then you'll need to do a force to make it install
  <BigRedS> and then you can safely go through all the texlive depends installing them; any that rely on ruby1.8 will fail
  <BigRedS> no, ignore depends will just install stuff without making sure it's got what it needs in order to run
  <bubu> I'm pretty sure it just needs ruby, but installs ruby1.8
  <bubu> I have ruby 2 installed as system ruby so it should be ok...
  <BigRedS> yeah, ruby irritates the crap out of me so I tend to not install things that depend on it
  <BigRedS> but if whatever it is depends on just "ruby" then I'd not expect anything to try to install ruby1.8
  <bubu> I'm using backports so it's http://ppa.launchpad.net/texlive-backports/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages
  <BigRedS> and I'd be surprised to find something that works in ruby 1.8 also work in 2.0
  <bubu> aye, big change
  <BigRedS> but, yeah, all of that does just appear to depend on ruby
  <BigRedS> maybe try putting ruby1.8 on hold and then installing the package
  <bubu> can't see anything specific to ruby1.8 libs in there
  <BigRedS> at worst, that way you'll probably see what it is that's causing dpkg to want ruby1.8
  <bubu> textlive wants to install context context-modules ruby ruby1.8 texlife-full, looks like it's context which wants ruby
   * MartijnVdS pokes his Pi
  <diddledan> shauno: you about?
  <shauno> in theory
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> I got a question - my UPS is on 12% load and it just tried to do a self test but when it finished it said "refused"
  <shauno> not entirely sober, so if I go quiet, it's in everyone's best interest
  <diddledan> any idea what was refused and why?
  <shauno> sorry, I don't do soho, call back in office hours :)
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> fair enough
  <shauno> either battery age/condition/lame, or it's not happy with the input power, I'd assume
  <diddledan> hmm, input voltage _is_ quite high at 246.19
  <shauno> generally you won't attempt a self-test if you're not fully charged, if it's not convinced it can run the battery down 20% without falling over, or if the input is out of range so there's no plan B
  <shauno> that said, I'm not sure if soho units bother with 'plan B'.  I don't normally deal with anything under 80kW, so the little boxes are a little odd to me
  <diddledan> I'm wondering if I can suck any log info off it
  <shauno> what is it ?
  <diddledan> smart-ups 750
  <MartijnVdS> pronounced "Smart-OOPS"
  <shauno> I'm gonna stick to my alcohol story :)  you can send it some pretty basic commands over serial, but it's a (very) messy protocol that I wouldn't feel comfortable ad-libbing
  <shauno> (google will call it either "apc smart protocol" or "apc link language" though)
  <shauno> it's not the most fun you've ever had though.  most likely the closest you'd be able to get is to command a runtime callibration and look up the letter it gives you when it refuses
  <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I'm nicking that pronounciation
  <MartijnVdS> ... Raspberry Pi only had 1GB (of 16) for /
  <shauno> resize2fs?
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah, the did the trick
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: but getting a "Disk full" error during apt-get is annyoing :)
  <MartijnVdS> annoying, too
  <shauno> if you like pain, try running java apps on it :)
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: I'm going to run a tiny "Google Cloud Print" connector daemon on it
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: so I don't have to configure Chrome to do that.. because that breaks Chrome for some reason
  <MartijnVdS> ("Could not load your profile")
  <shauno> I've been trying to run a java app that was originally distributed on a 700MHz VIA /w 256MB
  <shauno> was honestly suprised how much worse the pi performs
  <diddledan__> shauno: I think that's probably due to evolution of java rather than badness of the pi
  <MartijnVdS> the pi's CPU is *slow*
  <shauno> it is.  a whole lot slower than the clock count betrays.
  <diddledan__> I suppose part of that is no instruction reordering
  <shauno> we have an app that used to be distributed on hardware.  but the HW is all dying.  I thought the pi might be a cheap way to keep it alive.  I was wrong.
  <shauno> instead I'm distributing instructions on replacing the HDD with a CF card, because the pathetic cooling killing the HDD is the #1 killer, and the mobo it uses happens to have a CF carrier on the underside
  <zleap> isn't there a beagle board or beagle bone that is better spec than the pi,  and can run ubuntu
  <zleap> maybe something like that would work
  <MartijnVdS> or a NUC
  <shauno> it doesn't need to be ubuntu, the original is so old it's using RH pre-RHEL as a platform :)
  <ali1234> how do you disable upstart services?
  <shauno> as far as I can tell, you uninstall them
  <ali1234> the linux software for leap motion runs a leapd as root with upstart - it's a system service that runs all the time
  <shauno> I may be wrong, I often am; but it appears to be built around the ethos of "if you don't want it running, why did you install it"
  <ali1234> it runs the monitoring code constantly, so if you wave your hands near your computer -> 100% cpu use
  <ali1234> the daemon doesn't even need to run as root, it runs perfectly fine as a user
  <ali1234> but more to the point there is absolutely no reason for it to run constantly in the first place
  <ali1234> i just deleted /etc/init.d/leapd - that seems to have got rid of it
  <diddledan__> that isn't upstart then
  <diddledan__> upstart jobs are in /etc/init/
  <ali1234> diddledan__: /lib/init/upstart-job - read it
  <diddledan__> ali1234: your point being?
  <ali1234> my point being you're completely wrong :)
  <diddledan__> ali1234: that is a wrapper which gets called on upstart jobs that ALSO have an init.d script to maintain backwards compatibility
  <diddledan__> upstart stores it's jobs in /etc/init - anything in /etc/init.d related to an upstart job is backwards compatibility only
  <diddledan__> removing the job from /etc/init will disable it whereas removing the job from /etc/init.d MAY NOT
  <diddledan__> as a test, remove /etc/init.d/cron and then issue `restart cron` - the job will still start and stop even though you've removed the init.d script because that is JUST a backwards compatibility thing
  <BigRedS> to answer the more original question, I comment-out the entirety of their file in /etc/init/
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-21
  <RaxMatt> hmmm... should I got saucy, precise, or trusty on my rax desktop?
  <RaxMatt> *go
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <Myrtti> meh
  <Myrtti> "morning"
  <knightwise> morning ! :)
  <MooDoo> how are you knightwise Myrtti
  <knightwise> doing ok. finally found the root cause of my slow wifi at home
  <MooDoo> knightwise: brill what was it?  hardware?  signal interference?
  <knightwise> hardware
  <knightwise> turns out you have to disable the N spectrum on intel wifi cards under ubuntu
  <knightwise> bad driver/firmware/update thingie
  <Myrtti> tired, stressed, wondering if I'm coming down with a flu
  <MooDoo> my daughter got me up at 3am :(
  <knightwise> funny thing is : i didn't have that problem when I had my airport extreme router.
  <knightwise> and with the asus i do .. Funny
  <knightwise> Myrtti: take good care of yourself
  <knightwise> hot coco and stuff
  <knightwise> DId a nice google search . I pasted part of my Plex media servers configuration webpage url into google
  <knightwise> :) Been watching stuff on random plex servers all over the world :) Funny :p
  <knightwise> hrmphf... flaky connecton to home server today
  <knightwise> even irc is slow
  <MooDoo> not built my home server yet, need drives/memory for it
  <knightwise> I have an I5 with 16 gigs of ram and about 6Tb of storage running a couple of VMs
  <knightwise> works pretty fine
  <MooDoo> I've got a dell poweredge server, but it only support 500gb drives, which will do
  <knightwise> storage is not that important unless you also use it as a media server
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hugging Day! :-D
  <MooDoo> knightwise: nah, looking to have a play with openstack
  <knightwise> Cool :)
   * knightwise now needs to figure out how to disable N on his network card.
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: why? because it's flaky?
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: no , because of the known issue I had. Terrible wifi speeds, dropped TCP packets .. The works
  <JamesTait> knightwise, is this the Intel card with those problems?
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: if it's intel, /sys/modules/iwlwifi/11n_disable (or something) -- just "echo 1" into it. And for after a reboot, put a "local.conf" in /etc/modprobe.d/ with "options iwlwifi 11n_disable=1" (or whatever the file in /sys/modules is called)
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: but 11G is a lot worse than 11N for performance, consider upgrading anyway :)
  <JamesTait> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/924099
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 924099 in linux (Ubuntu) "8086:4236 iwlagn kernel module must disable n-support to work with Intel 5300 wireless card" [Medium,Expired]
  <JamesTait> Actually, MartijnVdS got the more recent version, I think.
  <MartijnVdS> yeah, and in iwlwifi the problem *should* be fixed, afaik
  <MartijnVdS> ah: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2134937
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: JamesTait : I thikn its an intel card
  <knightwise> I think there is a command that lets you check right ?
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: read the kernel log, it'll tell you. Also, lsmod.
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: also, lspci :)
  <knightwise> I found this link http://askubuntu.com/questions/119578/how-to-fix-slow-wireless-on-machines-with-intel-wireless-cards
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: like I said.. use the 11n_disable module parameter
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: that's what that page also suggests
  <knightwise> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 2230 (rev c4)
  <MartijnVdS> yes, and Centrino network adapters are know to flake out with some brands of router
  <knightwise> Gonna give it a try.
  <MartijnVdS> *cough*Linksys*cough*
  <knightwise> Asus
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: Asus also use Broadcom chips, like Linksys
   * MartijnVdS only buys TP-Link these days. Yay atheros.
  <MartijnVdS> (also, openwrt ;))
  <knightwise> Error: Module iwlwifi is in use by: iwldvm
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: so rmmod that as well
  <knightwise> ?
  <knightwise> i'm afraid you lost me there
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: rmmod iwldvm
  <MartijnVdS> then rmmod iwlwifi
  <knightwise> ok, followed the rest of the tutorial
  <MartijnVdS> you should see more stability now
  <knightwise> This  command gave me an empty file though  gksudo gedit /etc/modprobe.d/iwlwifi-disable11n.conf
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: yes, because you're creating it
  <knightwise> so i just pasted the line in there
  <MartijnVdS> and putting that one line in there
  <knightwise> gonna reboot the machine now
  <knightwise> ( The machine is at home , I'm accessing it vai SSH )
  <knightwise> but I just noticed that my network traffic at home is getting a lot faster now that i'm rebooting the laptop
  <knightwise> so it seems it is sending out quite a bit of network crap
  <knightwise> thanx again for your help in this guys
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: maybe it's compromised and spamming? Bittorrenting?
  <knightwise> Nope, just did a clean nuke and pave
  <MartijnVdS> maybe the NSA installed some custom firmware that does it for you ;)
  <MooDoo> will you guys shush i'm trying to snoop knightwise's lan
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: that would be tax dollars wasted :p
  <MooDoo> ;)
  <knightwise> MooDoo: Find the my little porny vids yet ?
  <MartijnVdS> or the Belgian equivalent
  <MooDoo> knightwise: yes and i'm quite impressed, you're bendy :D
  <MooDoo> lol
  <MartijnVdS> Pony videos? knightwise = brony? ;)
  <knightwise> NOOOOOO
   * knightwise runs away every time he sees furries
  <knightwise> (and pony's)
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: don't be ashamed, lots of adult men are bronies
  <MooDoo> WTF is a bronies?
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://whatisabrony.com/
  <MooDoo> holy sh*t balls
  <knightwise> True ;) there are some cool MLP mods out there
  <knightwise> Terminator-pony, borg-pony etc
  <MooDoo> get out, just get out
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: learn something new every day ;)
  <ali1234> go to bronycon
   * knightwise is listening to some chilly tunes on cmd.fm
  <knightwise> nice geeky streaming radio that looks like a command line interface :)
  <directhex> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/648817378243644036/
  <Myrtti> directhex: need any torrent seeders?
  <knightwise> Mobaxterm is a great replacement for Putty for those of you on Windows btw
  <knightwise> Xforwarding, Socks Tunnel, SFTP , all in one :)
  <Myrtti> does it support URL clicking?
  <knightwise> In a chatrroom ?
  <knightwise> erm .. no i don't think so
  <knightwise> bugger
  <Myrtti> right, can't recommend to irssi/weechat heavy users then
  <Myrtti> oh well
  <Myrtti> I haven't kept up to nutty / puttytray development so maybe they're still alright
  <diplo> Morning all
  <directhex> Myrtti, i don't know what's coming next for Ye Olde SteamOSe - much of its raison d'etre is gone with valve's merging in of changes
  <Myrtti> whee
  <knightwise> MrGarlic: Weechat ?
  <Myrtti> !info weechat
  <lubotu3> weechat (source: weechat): Fast, light and extensible chat client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.1-2 (saucy), package size 1 kB, installed size 31 kB
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: weechat? sounds like the thing you do while.. doing your business at the urinals
  <Myrtti> I didn't name it, don't blame mee
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
  <ali1234> directhex: why haven't they hired you yet?
  <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
  <MooDoo> someone want to hire me, I make good tea :D
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hmmm tea
  <brobostigon> coffee :)
  <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: heathen!
  <brobostigon> heh :(
  <MartijnVdS> :P
  <brobostigon> need to find a new strap for my pebble, the rubber strap isnt ideal.
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: 24k a year to make you tea and you're on ;)
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: only if you do the dishes too 8-)
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: steady on there
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <MooDoo> morning
  <Laney> cold this morning
  <knightwise> hey Laney
  <knightwise> good morning :)
  <Laney> ey up
  <knightwise> it is .. and it is supposed to be cold :)
  <foobarry> quite rfreshing
  <knightwise> high time it got chilly . Weather has been so fracked up , my neighbours peacocks are screaming in the morning.
  <knightwise> normally they dont do that untill march
  <ali1234> "AAAAAAARGH" - a peacock, yesterday
  <Laney> yeah, saw some plant shoots the other day that shouldn't have happened for a couple of months
  <Laney> bet these frosts have done them in
  <MooDoo> surprised it's sunny here i am, was expecting rain.
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: you've had frost then? We haven't even had that..
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: was quite thick yesterday not so much this morning
  <bigcalm> directhex: what's next in store for ye old Ye Olde SteamOSe?
  <MartijnVdS> retro gaming? 8-)
   * MartijnVdS actually fired up an old PS/2 (386DX!) this weekend. And it still worked
  <directhex> bigcalm, excellent question. i don't really know - much of its reason to exist is gone now
  <directhex> radical change in scope? hmph
  <bigcalm> What features didn't they include?
  <directhex> i haven't had a chance to analyse yet
  <directhex> am on the clock
  <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
  <BigRedS> Argh. Has anyone here worked out how to get an SMTP server delisted as a spam-sender by google?
  <MartijnVdS> by not sending spam?
  <BigRedS> yeah we stopped doing that three days ago
  <MartijnVdS> * don't be on "residential IP space"
  <BigRedS> and everyone else delisted us about two and a half days ago
  <BigRedS> nah, it's a proper smtp server
  <MartijnVdS> * have your host name + reverse mapping correctly (so foo.com -> 1.2.3.4 AND 4.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa -> foo.com)
  <BigRedS> yep
  <BigRedS> it's a shared mailserver, and at least some of the domains are spfed up
  <BigRedS> but everyone else at least has a form where you can fess up and say "but we've fixed it, take our mail?". It took MS about 15 minutes...
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: apparently, Google's 5xx rejection code contains an URL
   * popey bites the bullet and orders 16GB for his X220
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126
  <MartijnVdS> popey: \o/ 16G
  <MooDoo> popey: where you get that from, I've just had a look at crucial and their system says it'll only hold 8gb, might be wrong - http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.aspx?model=Thinkpad%20X220&Cat=RAM
  <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, that one ends with suggestions on how to form marketing emails
  <popey> its wrong
  <MooDoo> obviously if you purchased 16gb lo
  <popey> i canvassed the internets first
  <BigRedS> I did find a form for bulk senders to apply for some sort of permission which I've filled in, but it's very much "I send lots of mail" and not "I run this mailserver"
  <MooDoo> ah it officially supports 8gb, but people have been putting in 2x8gb chips into the 2 slots.
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
  <MooDoo> morning davmor2
  <davmor2> MooDoo, bigcalm: how are you both?
  <bigcalm> davmor2: experiencing a very long day
  <MooDoo> davmor2: I'm fab :)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: must be a long day if you are experiencing it this early on :)
  <davmor2> MooDoo: excellent :)
  <bigcalm> davmor2: my spy camera, I mean laptop, arrives tomorrow
  <bigcalm> I've been wearing my headphones since 9am and yet haven't listened to any music yet. Forgetting they are there and getting engrossed in my work...
  <MooDoo> bigcalm: comfy then
  <foobarry> my ones hurt the top of my head :(
  <foobarry> need more cushion
  <bigcalm> MooDoo: this headset is surprisingly so, more so than my cans which are meant to be higher quality
  <MooDoo> I borrow my sons over the ear ones, but they are terrible and leave me ear sore after about 10 min
  <MooDoo> s
  <Seeker`> I wish I could get another pair of sennheiser HD457s
  <bigcalm> That's what my cans do as well as leaving a dent in my hair where the connecting band sits
  <popey> I am using bluetooth headphones
  <popey> wired
  <popey> because bluetooth sucks
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <MartijnVdS> bluetooth is great. To connect my phone to my car stereo (for navigation & music)
  <popey> it keeps timing out
  <popey> dont know if its the cans or ubuntu
  <Seeker`> popey: try them on your mac?
   * MartijnVdS wonders how to work the NFC bit in his laptop
  <MartijnVdS> apparently, a driver has been loaded.
  <davmor2> popey: desktop or phone or both?
  <popey> hah
  <popey> desktop
  <popey> phone doesn't work at all
  <davmor2> popey: I have a feeling it is ubuntu I tried my headset on android and it works fine
  <popey> yeah
  <SengSoft> I have become attached to the Synapse App that I installed last night , successfully , in Ubuntu-Mate_Desktop 13.10 , https://twitter.com/Noobslab/status/169558718122426368 . : Nothing else to say ..no-Comeback . Off to Smithfields .. Applets FTW ! .
  <SengSoft> https://imgur.com/AqHbiTm
   * Seeker` can't find any good headphones :(
  <bigcalm> Bloomin spammers
  <bigcalm> Is it Wednesday yet?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: NO!
  <foobarry> nicest usb creator i've found is windows only :(
  <foobarry> called rufus
  <YaManicKill> Is it friday?
  <YaManicKill> foobarry: dd? :-P
  <popey> yeah, i use dd
  <foobarry> dd doesn't work for all isos
  <foobarry> ...does it?
  <BigRedS> I'm one of those people whose never had a problem with unetbootin :)
  <popey> which ones dont work?
  <foobarry> this is for a esxi installer iso
  <YaManicKill> I've not had one not work for a long time.
  <BigRedS> Don't the ISOs have to be crafted with that in mind? or does USB boot Just Work with an iso9660 image?
  <foobarry> if dd worked, then why did vmware write this page ? https://pubs.vmware.com/vsphere-50/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.vmware.vsphere.install.doc_50%2FGUID-33C3E7D5-20D0-4F84-B2E3-5CD33D32EAA8.html
  <YaManicKill> There was a nice one that ran on ubuntu that I tried a while ago. Weird English translations, as it was French, but it worked.
  <popey> gosh thats complicated
  <directhex> the ISO needs to be crafted with that in mind
  <BigRedS> VMWare seem to have put some effort in to making that not-straightforward
  <directhex> basically you stick an MBR boot sector in the first few bytes of the ISO9660 image, in a space which is basically padding
  <directhex> you only need 432 bytes for a boot sector
  <BigRedS> yeah, that's the sort of thing I thought was going on
  <YaManicKill> Ah, multisystem. http://liveusb.info/dotclear/
  <YaManicKill> That's the one I used for a while.
  <YaManicKill> Lets you stick multiple isos on and not had any issues with anything.
  <directhex> there are basically 4 different ways to boot: BIOS from CD, BIOS from USB, UEFI from CD, UEFI from USB. you need 4 boot loaders - one for each
  <directhex> UEFI from CD: you create a tiny FAT32 partition with a boot loader EFI application inside, and embed it in an el torito floppy record
  <directhex> UEFI from USB: just make sure the first partition on your USB stick is FAT32, and contains an EFI boot loader
  <directhex> BIOS from CD: 432 byte boot sector in an el torito floppy record
  <directhex> BIOS from USB: 432 bytes at the start of the drive, with a small offset
  <directhex> the trick is making a .iso which is all 4 of these things at once
  <directhex> this also ignores macs, which expect HFS+
  <DJones> C4RR3: Just Â£16.99 a month
  <DJones> Phone cost Free
  <DJones> Grr
  <DJones> Mis-paste
  <BigRedS> Miss Paste? Sounds lovely
  <azamat> hi @all . On my ubuntu 13.10, sound goes to maximum sometimes. Why is that?
  <bigcalm> Sometimes my workstation boots with audio muted. One of those things (tm)
  <YaManicKill> Yeah, me too.
  <MooDoo> I can catch the mouse roller wheel and sometimes that takes it to maximum
  <bigcalm> I wish that devices with wifi all came with a standard port to attach an external aerial
  <bigcalm> Ran out of ethernet ports on my router in my office so I'm not using the wifi on my workstation
  <Dave2> was "not" meant to be "now"?
  <bigcalm> Yes
  <bigcalm> The workstation in under my desk and about 4 feet from the wifi router - yet my workstation isn't showing a stong signal
  <bigcalm> Plus, I get about 3MB/s max when transferring between server and workstation :(
  <Dave2> Might I suggest buying a switch
  <bigcalm> s/in/is
  <bigcalm> Dave2: I want this one but don't have the money: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-Wireless-N-Port-Gigabit-Firewall/dp/B005UGRIIG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=LXT6MFP2WUWA&coliid=I3M4BGF1YGV466
  <bigcalm> To replace the wifi router I am using
  <bigcalm> Really need to keep down the number of mains sockets in use
  <ormiret> I'm intrigued; why do you care how many sockets are in use?
  <Dave2> that's... a bit pricy
  <bigcalm> ormiret: because one _can_ have too many
  <bigcalm> Dave2: yep, a cheaper alternative would be nice :)
  <Dave2> Cheaper alternative: a switch and a power brick thing
  <bigcalm> *grumble*
  <bigcalm> I used to have a switch until I gave it away on freecycle
  <bigcalm> Was only 10/100 though
  <Dave2> you can buy a switch for Â£hardlyanything
  <Dave2> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-SG1005D-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop/dp/B000N99BBC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1390307440&sr=8-2&keywords=tp-link+switch Â£12.48
  <MartijnVdS> I have one of those in white I think
  <MartijnVdS> works great
  <Dave2>  Instant Order Update for Dave Wickham. You purchased this item on 20 Nov 2011. View this order.
  <MartijnVdS> 8-)
  <diplo> I have one of those TP Link ones as well, is good
  <bigcalm> I guess
  <Dave2> I should buy the 8 port one though, because I'm running out of sockets and have run out of network ports.
  <Dave2> This is a switch that's attached to my router.
  <bigcalm> I should build some shelves to put the server and other bits on. My desk it getting messy
   * MartijnVdS ponders http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-SG1016DE-16-Port-Gigabit-Management/dp/B00DQ4ED7S
  <Dave2> hah
  <Dave2> My understanding is that the cheap TP-Link switches have the same chipset as that one, and so are effectively dumb managed switches
  <Dave2> (May be wrong on that)
  <MartijnVdS> Dave2: except the cheaper ones don't have an IP to talk to for management
  <Dave2> Hence the dumb bit
  <bigcalm> My router is running openwrt, so I don't really need a managed switch
  <Dave2> Those two statements don't really follow on from one another
  <bigcalm> Ta for the advice, I might order an 8 port plastic one
  <bigcalm> They don't?
  <MartijnVdS> Dave2: well, the ethernet ports built into a router like that could be used like managed switch ports
  <bigcalm> For my use, I just need extra ports. So unmanaged seems to make sense?
  <Dave2> No; your router has a managed switch built in, but if you did want to have vlan tagging, then you would lose the ability to have a trunked port going to the switch with different vlan tagging going on there.
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: usually, yes.
  <Dave2> Of course, you probably don't actually care about any of that
  <MartijnVdS> though managed switches can be higher throughput (paradoxically)
  <bigcalm> Dave2: I see and you are correct in this instance :)
  <bigcalm> Any advantage of getting a metal one rather than plastic?
  <Dave2> I'm not sure what the other differences are.
  <Dave2> Metal is nicer.
  <bigcalm> This is true
  <MartijnVdS> you could connect the metal case to ground, I suppose
   * bigcalm measures his office for putting up shelves
  <bigcalm> Can't decide if I want to put shelves on the whole of the wall behind my desk or to leave space for art work
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: behind your desk as in "in front of you when using the desk" or "behind you when using it"
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: in front of me when I'm using it
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then use it for art. Put the shelves behind you
   * MartijnVdS wishes he'd done that
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: not enough room behind me. This is the smallest bedroom in the house and only really fits my desk and my chair
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/414351141859000322
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ah. hmm
  <bigcalm> Time for a new photo
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/425616683739262976/photo/1
  <diplo> bigcalm: Corner shelves above the printer ?
  <bigcalm> diplo: I was wondering about using the whole of the left hand wall for shelves and include the corner
  <bigcalm> So many choices
  <bigcalm> In the very bottom left of the photo you can see the door handle of the open door
  <RaxMatt> hullo
  <popey> hi
  <RaxMatt> how are we all today?
  <popey> meh
  <RaxMatt> oh
  <RaxMatt> something happened?
  <MartijnVdS> it's a grey day outside here
  <MooDoo> i think everyone is having one of those dayas todya
  <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/archives/date-taken/2014/01/21/ greetings from Finland
  <RaxMatt> it was extremely foggy here at raxtowers this morning
  <foobarry> MooDoo: i certainly am having one of those days
  <MooDoo> foobarry: yeah me to, but mine is coz i'm tired 3 hours of sleep last night
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: been out partying?
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no little one came into the bedroom at 3am wide awake
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ah, so someone else was out partying ;)
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: if she was she's in trouble. then again who knows what 2 year olds get up to while we're asleep ;)
  <MartijnVdS> :)
  <popey> yay, my ram is coming via DPD
  <foobarry> if my boy doesn't wake me up in the night he gets to put marbles in his reward jar
  <MartijnVdS> popey: already? that's quick!
  <foobarry> so the laptop will break 1 week from now?
  <foobarry> or 1 day after support runs out
  <popey> its got a year or so support left
  <bigcalm> What was the bz2 method that people suggested I used for compressing a 4.2GB mysql dump?
  <YaManicKill> rm
  <YaManicKill> that's the most efficient compression I know :-P
  <davmor2> bigcalm: you know when you open a browser and in the middle is this google text box :P  were you after the compression format or the command to do it?
  <bigcalm> davmor2: I use `tar jcvf foo.tar.bz2 foo`. Somebody suggested a better method
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: there's create_dump_on_stdout_somehow | bzip2 -9 > dump.bz2
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if you want moar compression, try xz
  <bigcalm> I have the dump now. Just want to compress it for xfer to my server
  <MartijnVdS> xz -9 file -- why tar if it's one file?
  <bigcalm> I normally use zxvf for one handed quickness but thought that bz2 was meant to be better for some reason
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: muscle memory :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: tar is smart with extensions now I think -- the "j" or "z" don't matter anymore -- at least when extracting
  <bigcalm> Oh, xz is a utility. I'll give it a go :)
  <MartijnVdS> gz < bz2 < xz (compression-ratio wise, usually)
  <MartijnVdS> (some files might gzip better or bzip better, but most will xz the best)
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: so for the next person to beat xzip they will need to do zzip but then it just sounds like your machine is sleeping when you run the command zz
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: well they could do yzip instead
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: and/or skip to greek letters
  <MartijnVdS> Âµzip sounds nice and micro :)
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah but then it sounds like a question
  <davmor2> why zip
   * MartijnVdS used "arj" last week
  <MartijnVdS> well, unarj
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS, bigcalm: I quite like 7zips archive it is pretty compact
  <bigcalm> I'm looking for speed more than compression I guess
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: 7zip uses lzma, same as xz, but xz actually has a unixy file format ;)
  <bigcalm> I'll give xz a go
  <davmor2> bigcalm: 7zip is fast so I assume that xz should be too
  <MartijnVdS> 7zip decompression is fast
  <MartijnVdS> compression isn't really
  <MartijnVdS> if you want fast, try gzip -1 ;)
  <bigcalm> I do need to actually compress the file as well :P
  <bigcalm> Ah, lunch is ready :)
  <foobarry> "3 billion devices run java"
  <foobarry> i wonder how many are up to date
  <Seeker`> 3
  <directhex> javacard.
  <directhex> runs on SIM cards
  <MartijnVdS> isn't that a very special very stripped-down thing though
  <bigcalm> 4.1GB MySQL dump -> xz for 9m43.448s -> 165MB .xz file
  <foobarry> shhh
  <bigcalm> Sorry, didn't mean to wake you
  <YaManicKill> That amused me more than it probably should...
  <bigcalm> ETA (from pv) to import the database is 1 hour
   * bigcalm does some other stuff
  <davmor2> bigcalm: that sounds a bit more portable
  <bigcalm> Can anybody recommend some very simple software for chopping section out of an mp3?
  <Myrtti> a specific section or just splitting it?
  <foobarry> more simple than audacity?
  <bigcalm> A specific section
  <bigcalm> foobarry: I currently know of no software, so any suggestions would be good
  <Myrtti> audacity is good
  <bigcalm> Ta, I'll give it a go
  <foobarry> ffmpeg can cut sections too
  <bigcalm> Simple implying GUI ;)
  <foobarry> i refer you to prevous answer :)
  <Myrtti> ooer http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/20207/why-are-airline-passengers-asked-to-lift-up-window-shades-during-takeoff-and-lan?utm_source=google&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=travel-promotion&utm_content=travel-promo-windows-google
  <foobarry> got a summary?
  <Myrtti> so that there's more eyes to see if there's problems and the passangers eyesight is acclimatized to the outside lighting if there's a need to evacuate
  <Myrtti> same reason why during takeoff and landing in the dark the lights are turned off
  <foobarry> so for crashy reasons
  <Myrtti> yeah - apparently european officials require that the plane needs to be able to be evacuated in 90sec
  <bigcalm> My db import finally finished: 4.08GB 0:40:35 [1.72MB/s]
  <foobarry> i was a fire marshall once, only to find out when the fire drill was
  <foobarry> get the lift down 26 flights before you have to walk
  <Myrtti> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1uzne_a380-emergency-evacuation-test_tech
  <bigcalm> Love the comment "That was really funny! anyone want to chat with a cutie like me^^? :))"
  <diddledan__> bigcalm: yeah, I would. you cute thing you.
  <bigcalm> o.O
  <diddledan__> :-p
   * foobarry closes irc for a bit
  <diddledan__> foobarry: was it _that_ offensive that I might think bigcalm is cute? :-o
  <foobarry> umm
   * foobarry goes away
  <diddledan__> lol
  <diddledan__> I think that's a yes then
  <foobarry> i'm not used to seeing the word cutie on irc
  <diddledan__> true, let's tru QT
  <diddledan__> try*
  <diddledan__> ubuntu phone ftw
  <popey> \o/
  <bigcalm> One of the advantages of recording all sky calls is getting rather odd snippets like this one: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/yelling.mp3
  <Dave2> SKY CALLS
  <bigcalm> skype
  <Dave2> Heavenly conversations
  <firefox> Hello, I have a question about my computer. It was given to me by a friend and she told me the password but it will not take it anymore and i cannot do anything but basic stuff. No administration stuff. Is there any way to override the password
  <directhex> firefox, ubuntu computer?
  <firefox> yes
  <diddledan__> firefox: you need to reboot into single user mode and replace the password using `passwd` utility.
  <diddledan__> either that or do some dohickery in the live dvd
  <firefox> ok thanks
  <firefox> i will try it
  <diddledan__> that might be easier but needs another pc available to burn the dvd
  <diddledan__> I hate that grub is so difficult to get to appear with quiet boot - I've still not found a sure-fire way of getting the menu up
  <directhex> ask it nicely!
  <foobarry> left shift key?
  <diddledan__> "computer... oh computer..."; "scotty, try this"; "oh a keyboard, how quaint"
  <popey> AlanBell: http://designspark.com/eng/blog/day-one-with-parallella
  <AlanBell> popey: nice, I am looking forward to it turning up
   * MartijnVdS has soup!
  <DJones> bigcalm: You know that laptop you ordered? Has it arrived yet, or are you going to cancel and order one of these http://www.maximumpc.com/dell_reaffirms_commitment_project_sputnik_launches_new_ubuntu_laptop_developers2013
  <popey> thats the touch screen one? I do like the look of them
  <MartijnVdS> if they're like the XPS12, they're great
  <ali1234> i don't understand how they can put an i7 in a 13" and not have it melt a hole through the floor into the core of the earth
  <ali1234> china syndrome style...
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Magic
  <diddledan__> thems look sleek
  <diddledan__> for anyone looking seriously at them: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
  <bigcalm> DJones: it's due to arrive tomorrow
  <bigcalm> Though the order tracking page says that it is still in Cina
  <foobarry> curse of the big clam
  <foobarry> in other news http://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-least-reliable-hard-drive-brands-1505797966
  <MartijnVdS> So me not buying seagate is a good decision
  <directhex> no no no they used GREENS?
  <directhex> are they freaking mentally ill?
  <foobarry> any bad seagate ones are probably maxtor in their genes
  <foobarry> annual failure rate of one specific piece of kit is running around 15% so far, and still 3 months left
  <JanC> only 8 GiB of RAM?
   * popey will be looking out for DPD guy for his 16GB RAM! :D
  <JanC> ali1234: that's a massively underclocked i7, remember?
  <ali1234> yeah i suspected something like that
  <JanC> U series
  <bigcalm> popey: you are going to get your ram before I get my laptop. Slightly miffed about that for some reason
  <popey> hah
  <bigcalm> Wifey has gone to a friend's place for a wee drink. Which means I'll be picking her up later. Which means I'm off the sauce tonight
   * bigcalm twiddles thumbs
  <bigcalm> Sod it, I'll fix some broken unit tests
  <moreati> bigcalm: your spy cam arrived yet?
  <bigcalm> moreati: order tracking page says tomorrow. Then again, it also says that it's still in China
  <bigcalm> moreati: I was hoping to bring it to the LUG
  <Scratman> Greetings all
  <Scratman> I have an issue with my machine, if I type http://127.0.0.1:8081 into my browser, my browser advises that it is unable to connect, how can I resolve this?
  <directhex> um... why do you expect something to reply on port 8081?
  <Scratman> directhex I'm following a tutorial to stream my webcam over my network, link  http://cjjulius.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/creating-a-simple-linux-webcam-server/
  <directhex> lsof -i :8081
  <Scratman> copy and paste to terminal?
  <directhex> yes
  <Scratman> Done
  <Scratman> Leaves me back at the default prompt scratman@scratman:~$
  <Scratman> Still unable to connect at http://127.0.0.1:8081/
  <directhex> lsof would tell you which apps are running and listening on port 8081
  <directhex> did it report anything?
  <Scratman> One moment
  <Scratman> Nothing
  <bigcalm> Did running motion do anything?
  <Scratman> Just restarted the process, it's running, but lsof -i still reports nothing
  <directhex> ok, so you aren't running anything which would be listening to you on port 8081
  <directhex> Scratman, which process is the motion process? you said it's running, do you know the PID?
  <bigcalm> px aux | grep motion
  <Scratman> px: command not found
  <bigcalm> Oops
  <bigcalm> ps
  <bigcalm> Slip of the finger
  <bigcalm> ps aux | grep motion
  <Scratman> Motion ID 8051
  <Scratman> in motion.conf under Live Webcam Server it states:- webcam_port 8081
  <Scratman> have I done something stupid, or is this confusing?
  <Scratman> scratman   8051 12.6  0.3  46880 13656 ?        Sl   22:35   0:50 motion
  <Scratman> scratman    9386  0.0  0.0   4392   828 pts/3    S+   22:42   0:00 grep --color=auto motion
  <directhex> there is definitely a motion process with PID 8051
  <Scratman> ps aux | grep motion returned 2 lines, first was : scratman   8051 12.6  0.3  46880 13656 ?        Sl   22:35   0:50 motion
  <directhex> lsof -iPn | grep 8051
  <Scratman> lsof: unknown protocol name (Pn) in: -i Pn
  <directhex> grr
  <directhex> -i -P -n
  <Scratman> lsof -i -P -n ?
  <diddledan__> sudo netstat -anp might help, also
  <Scratman> directhex what am I looking for?
  <Scratman> diddledan-- What am I looking for?
  <directhex> Scratman, evidence of the motion process actually listening on *any* port
  <diddledan__> Scratman: your motion process - if it's there then it'll tell you what port it's listening on
  <diddledan__> you _could_ pass the output through grep
  <Scratman> Motion isn't listed in either result.....
  <diddledan__> then it hasn't opened aport at all
  <Scratman> Well, that would explain why firefox doesn't find it....
  <Scratman> Now I need to work out how to make it open a port.
  <Scratman> I  don't understand why it's not opening a port.....
  <Scratman> and to be honest, I'm too tired to work it out tonight
  <Scratman> Thanks for the help guys, I'll have a think, check the man page tomorrow, and see how I get on
  <Scratman> gOODBYE
  <Scratman> Sorry, caps lock.   Goodbye.
  <diddledan> yey for ip6
  <daftykins> O_O
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-22
  <bigcalm> directhex: renewed interest in the torrent for release 4. Wonder what sparked that
  <daftykins> aww i missed the communal seeding drive of a new'un
   * bigcalm sleeps
  <daftykins> nn sir
  <diddledan> *yawwn*
  <diddledan> should really sleep
  <diddledan> messing with nameservers right now tho
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Celebration Of Life Day! :-D
  <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <diplo> Morning all
  <MooDoo> morning diplo
  <diplo> Rather liveley here this morning!
  <MooDoo> never is this time of the morming, people are only just waking up
   * diplo would be quite happy still in bed
  <MooDoo> diplo: me too
  <JamesTait> Me three.
  <knightwise> morning everyone
  <jussi> hrm, seems my clock disappeared (on ubuntu). anyone know how to get it back?
  <ali1234> restart indicator-datetime-service
  <ali1234> open shell and run "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-datetime-service &"
  <popey> http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/ interesting
  <jussi> hrm, not going to work, still on 32bit here
  <popey> /usr/lib/*/indicator-datetime-service &
  <popey> then
  <ali1234> then you have a 32 bit equivalent path
  <Myrtti> oh my GAWD there was something bright and flashing I could see from the corner of my eye on my pillow
  <Myrtti> two concecutive glances and it's only a pillow
  <Myrtti> now I realise it's the SUN COMING FROM THE WINDOW
  <jussi> ali1234: and popey, yup, that fixed it. thanks
  <MooDoo> Myrtti: sun? sun?  lies, there is no such thing
  <Myrtti> http://en.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/weather/tampere
  <popey> bah, ram is being delivered when I am at the optician
  <popey> \o/ dpd allow me to redirect to neighbour
  <jussi> MooDoo: open ther blinds... :P
  <MooDoo> Myrtti: nice :)
  <MooDoo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170 here's mone
   * MooDoo senses popey is a little excited at getting his RAM
  <popey> JUST A BIT
  <hoover> Morning lads & lassies
  <MooDoo> morning hoover
  <BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
  <bashrc> morning
  <MooDoo> It's a beautiful day hay hay !
  <MooDoo> popey: how spooky, I just read that backblaze blog post yesterday....been using their service for a couple of months, took about a week to do my initial backup :S
  <popey> oh interesting, I haven't used their service. any good?
  <popey> and does it work on linux?
  <MooDoo> popey: er not sure about linux, it's on a spare windows machine I have, don't think there is a linux clietn
  <MooDoo> popey: not at the moment - https://help.backblaze.com/entries/20203476-Is-Backblaze-going-to-offer-Linux-support-
  <diddledan> *yawwn*
  <MooDoo> diplo: coffee
  <diddledan> definitely
  <bigcalm> A client has asked me to set up a VPN with the endpoint of 192.168.1.127/31. Am I right in thinking that you can't use anything but a /32 with an odd number?
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <diddledan> bigcalm: a /31 doesn't make sense in the real world
  <bigcalm> diddledan: it's just 2 IP addresses for use with a VPN
  <diddledan> are you sure?
  <bigcalm> Quite sure, it's what we've been setting up for sometime now
  <diddledan> 1bit = 2 addresses, network id is one and broadcast is the other, meaning 0 usable ip addresses
  <diddledan> host ip addresses**
  <MartijnVdS> that, or a point-to-point link
  <bigcalm> I assure you, what we are doing works :)
  <diddledan> but anywho .127/31 is .127 and .127
  <diddledan> .126 and .127
  <bigcalm> I'm not explaining the whole set-up. Just that I think Rackspace will reject the .127/31 request. .126/31 would work though
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: throw it at ipcalc :)
   * bigcalm passes on the request as the client has stated, just to see what happens
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to have Hitachi and Samsung drives and thought they were good. Samsung drives went to Seagate, Hitachi now gone to WD... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/putting-hard-drive-reliablity-to-the-test-shows-not-all-disks-are-equal/
  <foobarry> golden rule used to be "don't buy maxtor"
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> maxtor were fun
  <MooDoo> I just use WD drives, never had a problem with them yet
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Seagate look absolutely terrible in this report
  <diddledan> I try to stick with WD too
  <foobarry> they used a particular seagate model, which probably is made in the maxtor factory
  <foobarry> seagates with seagate DNA were good IME
  <foobarry> where are quantum fireballs now?
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: quantum bigfoot!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> UK unemployment down again, and by 167k last month... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25841570
  <foobarry> you mean uk employment statistics...
  <jussi> TheOpenSourcerer: good news!
  <bashrc> Is this unemployment down, or people being no longer counted
  <TheOpenSourcerer> You'd need to ask the ONC I guess.
  <foobarry> we have struggled to hire for ages
  <bashrc> when I was unemployed I was recommended to "sign off" on a couple of occasions, even though I was looking for a job
  <foobarry> only attracting people on the continent, which means UK people want more munneh
  <jussi> foobarry: I think we have had some similar issues with hiring. mind, finding good embedded SW people isnt the easiest...
  <bashrc> struggling to hire is laughable given the current situation
  <TheOpenSourcerer> It isn't bashrc
  <TheOpenSourcerer> The UK has generally failed miserably to educate our kids for the last 20 years in anything remotely "technical"
  <foobarry> considering we are paying OK wages
  <bashrc> if you're struggling to hire then you're not offering a market clearing rate
  <jussi> bashrc: there are plenty of applicants, however, qualified, experienced people...
  <foobarry> but everything is 10-15% more expensive than a couple of years ago, so bashrc  thats correct but HR don't agree
  <bashrc> there are lots of smart people out there
  <foobarry> earning moer money
  <bashrc> if you're not offering a market clearing rate then htat's the explanation.  It's not that there aren't enough suitable candidates
  <TheOpenSourcerer> There are a lot more "less smart" people than smart ones... Esp. in tech.
  <foobarry> $employer is hiring contractors at london market rates, but permies on much lower salary = death of dept.
  <diddledan> and then there's idiots... like me.
  <jussi> bashrc: I put it to you that you are wrong.
  <jussi> but then again, we are looking for very specific skill sets
  <bashrc> I'm not seeing many fewer folks coming out of universities.  Are all of those people unemployable.  That doesn't seem plausible
  <foobarry> my problem is inflexible HR process
  <foobarry> we see good people sometimes but cannot tweak our JD or pay scale up or down to accomodate them
  <jussi> yeah, I think for us, its more that there is right now a gap in the market for certain skill sets, with experience.
  <bashrc> I've seen recent university science graduates become unix hackers within a few months of employment
  <bashrc> so I don't think htere is an IQ deficit
  <MooDoo> are employers wanting experience or grades, I know that i'd prefer experience over a uni degree
  <foobarry> experience propped up with a degree
  <MooDoo> :)
  <foobarry> there are exceptions but i feel a good Bsc degree underpins your approach to work
  <foobarry> even affecting guys in their 30s+ who don't seem to understand principles of computing
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: I don't know.. lots of BSc's I know knew a lot of theory, not much practice.
  <BigRedS> I keep meaning to do a CS 101 style course to get some of the underlying theory down
  <MooDoo> I don't have a degree and I seem to be doing ok for myself lol
  <BigRedS> most of my knowledge of how computers work is related directly to kernel complaints
  <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I think a degree for the theory plus experience for the practice is what's being advocated
  <diplo> Anyone heard from SuperMatt ?
  <ali1234> the problem is that employers want a degree and 5 years of experience and they also want you to be 22 so they can pay you as little as possible
  <MooDoo> diplo: not lately, probably too busy with rackspace.
  <BigRedS> ali1234: I think a problem is the vagueness. When I was looking for work most positions were really vague on what they wanted
  <BigRedS> "Â£22K+; a PHd in CS would be an advantage but isn't essential"
  <BigRedS> so "We'll consider anybody, but not give any clues as to what the position is"
  <ali1234> that means one of two things
  <ali1234> either there is no position, or it means you will be the sole "computer expert" for the entire company
  <diplo> I can't see sometimes how this advantage is with having a phd.. I had lots of consultants in at my last place. Qualified till the hilt with sod all real world experience except writing down 'This would be good for you' but with never implementing it
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: 22kÂ£? Is that before or after tax?
  <BigRedS> Ah, they never made that clear either, so before
  <BigRedS> that was a made-up number
  <czajkowski> Aloha
  <MooDoo> morning Laura
  <czajkowski> ello
  <bigcalm> WAH!
  <bigcalm> ETA has moved to tomorrow
  <bigcalm> Oh well, back to work
  <DJones> Does anybody know how to change the data range for a chart in LibreOffice
  <MooDoo> jussi: are you anything to do with ubuntu bots?
  <MooDoo> jussi: it's ok ignore that
  <davmor2> Morning all
   * popey goes to get his eyes tested
  <bigcalm> No laptop for me today *sniff*
  <MooDoo> morning davmor2
  <davmor2> bigcalm: tell me you wouldn't think about getting this http://thisisnthappiness.com/post/74108351942/lego-escher
  <bigcalm> davmor2: seen it before and would love it as a kit
  <davmor2> bigcalm: Sue wants it so I can build it for her :D
   * czajkowski pokes davmor2 ello 
  <davmor2> czajkowski: hello trouble how are you?
  <czajkowski> not bad looking at events I want to go to
  <czajkowski> and this one has caught my eye based on the name alone thegeekgathering.org
  <MooDoo> wow 2013 had some great speakers
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 7.1? 5.1? 7.2?
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: excuse me?  don't get you?
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: speakers.. 7 front 1 subwoofer, etc.
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh i meant people speakers at a conference...or were you trying to be funny ;)
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: both ;)
  <davmor2> MooDoo, MartijnVdS: see that would of worked if you said, Dolby Digital, mono or stereo? :)
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: yeah :)
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: Pro Logic, btw.
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: haha
  <MooDoo> you're all gits
  <davmor2> MooDoo: geeks man you need to fix your autocorrect
  <MooDoo> davmor2: no I believe I was correct in the first instance ;)
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: <something about checking out and commmitting>
  <davmor2> MooDoo: well that as well :P
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I hate committing :)
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: watch out for a detached head state then :)
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I'd repond if I knew git ;)
  <RaxMatt> diplo: I'm here
  <davmor2> MooDoo: you only hate committing because when you do they put you in the padded room right ;)
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you could just tag someone else
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I prefer stab, and I can do that to czajkowski and davmor2  :D
  <DJones> MooDoo: davmor2 Its easy to tell the difference between geek & Git, git pull downloads software, geek pull normally downloads a punch
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/mr+stabby/ ?
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: like it :D
  <Myrtti> in other, exiting news http://phys.org/news/2014-01-fastest-real-world-fiber-14tbs.html
  <Myrtti> "This is believed to be the fastest speed ever achieved in commercial grade hardware in a real-world environment and is equivalent to transmitting 44 uncompressed HD films in a single second.
  <Myrtti> "
  <BigRedS> Is that the 14 year old?
  <diplo> RaxMatt: Was just going to see how things were going ?
  <MooDoo> BigRedS: ?
  <BigRedS> ah. no
  <RaxMatt> diplo: they're going very well thanks. It's a little slow this week because training isn't as forth coming as it otherwise would have been, but it's a lot of fun being here
  <BigRedS> there was a site going round the other day where a kid was saying he'd solved everyone's compression issues
  <BigRedS> I didn't see the URL before somehiow
  <MooDoo> global jam in a few months - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
  <diplo> RaxMatt: Great, glad to hear it.. will have to keep us updated on it :)
  <RaxMatt> I shall
  <RaxMatt> though I'm sure you're all eager to know if I can get you a discount
  <RaxMatt> the answer is no
  <diplo> Nah, I've looked at jobs @ rackspace before, but it's to far away for me :/
  <diplo> And discounts, no! Free stuff, yeah! :P
  <MooDoo> ah RaxMatt wondered who you were :D
  <RaxMatt> :D
  <Myrtti> yeah, took me a while too
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: are you there now?  having fun?
  <RaxMatt> I am, and I am
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: and you're on irc, result :D
  <bigcalm> davmor2: how does it look for tonight?
  <RaxMatt> well I'm not getting much in the way of training just yet, so I've been told I can do anything
  <RaxMatt> I'm not going to be able to do customer stuff for 6 weeks
  <davmor2> I'm going he is having an autopsy so no news about anything till Friday at the earliest
  <davmor2> bigcalm: ^]
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: 6 weeks?  that the learning term?
  <bigcalm> davmor2: hope you're okay man
  <MooDoo> davmor2: ?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: bit gutted but other than that I'm good thanks ;)
  <davmor2> MooDoo: uncle died at the weekend
  <bigcalm> davmor2: have an early wake for the man :)
  <MooDoo> davmor2: ah sorry to hear that chap
  <RaxMatt> MooDoo: yuppers!
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: wow, and too busy to train you eh lol
  <RaxMatt> well, someone started last week, so they've started his training already (some of it already organised for this week). So they're gonna make me join his training from next week onwards, and play catch up with the things I didn't learn later in the 6 weeks
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: self learning time it is then :D
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: put your flag up :)
  <RaxMatt> I haven't got my flag yet. I'm gonna try and get a gotham city flag or a batman flag
  <MooDoo> lol
  <davmor2> RaxMatt: Walk outside and shout this linux and openstack thing is just never gonna work, you'll be amazed at how many people take the time to prove you wrong ;)
  <RaxMatt> hah, I'm not going to do that
  <davmor2> RaxMatt: You're just no fun at all are you :P  Enjoy from what I understand they are a really cool team there :)
  <bigcalm> RaxMatt: why the change of nick?
  <RaxMatt> because I work for rackspace now
  <MooDoo> RaxMatt: now you'll have to start nominating people to work at rackspace -
  <bigcalm> RaxMatt: in the mean time you could assist Rory in working our our VPN problems ;)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: RaxMatt worked for superman before?
  <hoover> Hey biggie!
  <bigcalm> davmor2: ah, that would make sense
  <bigcalm> Hi hoovie :)
  <RaxMatt> bigcalm: nope, can't do customer stuff!
  <bigcalm> Poo
  <RaxMatt> plus, you might not be one of my customers
  <bigcalm> RaxMatt: it would be amusing if that happened
  <RaxMatt> brb, gonna get lunch from the exceptionally cheap hardrack cafe
  <bigcalm> Oh dear me
  <RaxMatt> basically if you're an smb spending less than 5K on linux, I'm your man
  <RaxMatt> brb
  <ali1234> that's funny, cos when i worked for an SMB spending less than 5k on linux, rackspace were basically "yeah we don't do anything that small"
  <bigcalm> I have no idea how much our client is spending with Rackspace.
  <ali1234> that was several years ago though
  <foobarry> arrrgh why did i update java..nothing works
  <foobarry> Starting with Java 7 Update 51, Java has enhanced security model to make user system less vulnerable to the external exploits. The new version of Java does not allow users to run the applications that are not signed (Unsigned), Self signed (not signed by trusted authority) and the applications that are missing permission attributes.
  <MartijnVdS> so actually useful updates
  <MartijnVdS> finally
  <Myrtti> foobarry: yeah, we got hit by that at work
  <knightwise> heya
  <foobarry> Myrtti: the suggested workaround doesn't have a site list
  <foobarry> security-edit site list no existy
  <foobarry> ah, because in windows, the control panel-Java points to the old version, how helpful
  <balor> Can anyone tell me the i10n shorthand for Wales?  For example en-gb is British English, ga-ie is Gaelic Irish, what's Welsh?  Internet searches suggest cy-gb, but CY is the ISO 3166 and TLD for Cyprus.
  <shauno> cy-gb should be correct
  <balor> http://cy.wikipedia.org is Welsh, so I suppose cy it is.
  <RaxMatt> ali1234: the difference now I guess is cloud computing
  <shauno> it's lang-country, where lang is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes and country you already have nailed
  <davmor2> balor: cy for Cymru
  <balor> davmor2, thanks.  I'm sure the Cypriots are pleased :)
  <MartijnVdS> balor: well, they're having enough trouble figuring out if they're Greek or Turkish, right?
  <knightwise> MartijnVdS: your tip worked :)
  <knightwise> Wifi now restored to normal speeds on my notebook
  <knightwise> :)
  <davmor2> knightwise: oh what tip was that then?
  <knightwise> http://askubuntu.com/questions/119578/how-to-fix-slow-wireless-on-machines-with-intel-wireless-cards
  <knightwise> had a terrible time trying to mix up an intell wifi card and a broadcom chip on my Asus router
  <popey> \o/ 16GB
  <foobarry> you know you marry well when you wife opens a convo "" Just got the fake windows call [scam]"
  <foobarry> "he hung up as soon as I said that it was interesting because I don't use windows"
  <foobarry> my brother, an intelligent man, rang in a panic "foobarry, this man is on the phone from canada saying people are attacking my pc right now"
  <BigRedS> knightwise: iwlwifi.11n_disable=1 ?
  <MartijnVdS> it should still be slow
  <MartijnVdS> as 802.11g *is* slow :)
  <knightwise> BigRedS: correct
  <BigRedS> I was bemused to hear the other day that wifi comes in faster-than-54Mbps flavours
  <BigRedS> knightwise: yeah, I briefly didn't need that but I've gone back about ten kernels to Crunchbang and it's definitely necessary again
  <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: my advertised-as-300MBps doesn't really go that fast though :)
  <foobarry> are you guys seeing dropped packets etc?
  <foobarry> with pings, or other effects?
  <BigRedS> foobarry: on mine the thing just disappears and NM claims an inability to configure it
  <BigRedS> I can't remember in all honesty, I last debugged it about a year ago and have just shoved that line onto my cmdline fairly automatically since
  <foobarry> BigRedS: its fixed in later kernel?
  <BigRedS> not in whatever 13.10 had a month or so ago
   * diplo is hereing Mr popey on Linux Unplugged, thought I recognised the voice
  <diplo> :)
  <bigcalm> popey: as my laptop's ETA has changed to tomorrow, you have an extra day to make 14.04 be more awesome before I install it
  <popey> "thanks"
  <bigcalm> popey: most welcome ;)
  <bigcalm> popey: so are you running memtest on your new 16GB to see that it all works?
  <popey> i only run memtest when things break
  <popey> KiB Mem:  16314304 total,  7999684 used,  8314620 free,     1700 buffers
  <popey> seems to be working
  <MartijnVdS> time to open a few more tabs
  <MartijnVdS> you're not using >50% of it!
  <popey> or a VM or five
  <MartijnVdS> why not
  <BigRedS> what's everyone's favourite desktop virt? I'd like one that only does anything to my networking when it's actually running, ideally
  <ali1234> virtualbox?
  <BigRedS> Yeah, the only reason I have to not use that is 'oracle'
  <ali1234> virtualbox-ose?
  <BigRedS> which isn't a very good one
  <knightwise> Virtualbox :) I love its command line interface
  <foobarry> i use vmware player for occasional spin ups of vms
  <MartijnVdS> vbox is great.. until you want to suspend your laptop with a VM running
  <MartijnVdS> then it prevents suspend
  <ali1234> suspend the VM first
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it should do that for me, then bring it back on host-resume
  <popey> what do you want to virtualise?
  <MartijnVdS> a development box, created by vagrant
  <MartijnVdS> but I don't want to hunt down vagrant boxes when I need to catch my bus
  <ali1234> MartijnVdS: it can't be hard to implement
  <popey> ^ BigRedS â»
  <foobarry> kvm is good but not v nice tools
  <MartijnVdS> virsh is nice once you've used it a bit
  <MartijnVdS> but yeah it's a lot of manual stuff
  <dwatkins> there's a GUI for qemu, too
  <popey> !info virt-manager
  <lubotu3> virt-manager (source: virt-manager): desktop application for managing virtual machines. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.5-1ubuntu1.1 (saucy), package size 273 kB, installed size 3264 kB
  <foobarry> vmware does special things when it installs ubuntu - do others do that too?
  <foobarry> quick config type stuff
  <foobarry> virt-manager is so redhat
  <foobarry> ugly grey boxes, looks alpha quality
  <ali1234> do people say "Q-M-U" or "kee-moo"?
  <ali1234> i saw a video where some guy kept saying "kee-moo" and i had no idea what he was talking about for like 10 minutes
  <diddledan__> neither. que emu
  <ali1234> like the spanish?
  <ali1234> why would you say it like that?
  <diddledan__> no like queue
  <ali1234> like queue emu?
  <ali1234> like the bird?
  <popey> queue emu
  <popey> yes
  <popey> kyoo-eee-myoo
  <dwatkins> kew emm you
  <diddledan__> guy who recently left at work used to call it kwaymoo
  <MooDoo> oh that's strange as i call it kwem-oo
  <popey> potato/potato
  <diddledan__> spud
  <diddledan__> :-p
  <popey> tayto â czajkowski
  <foobarry> kwemu
  <diddledan__> can't go wrong with either "tatties" or "spuds" :-p
  <MooDoo> oh you said tatties ;)
  <dwatkins> t8r
  <davmor2> diddledan__: I can't call them tatties not after Russell Howard called breasts Tattiebojangles
  <diddledan__> lol
  <Myrtti> virt-manager is nice
  <diddledan__> I like the big bang theory name for a breast-centric magazine: "bombay badonkadonks"
  <czajkowski> :D
  <directhex> um...
  <directhex> that'd be butts, not breasts
  <Myrtti> my irssi vm got stuck waiting for a harddrive to appear that I've got with me in Finland and I just connected over qemu+ssh and fixed it
  <diddledan__> really?
  <directhex> really
  <diddledan__> shows how well I know my pr0n :-p
  <ali1234> i pity anyone reading this log... how to pronounce "qemu" to "butts" in 20 lines
  <diddledan__> ali1234: impressive, no?
  <davmor2> ali1234: I'm pretty sure we can discount about 10 lines of that from people being sensible :D
  <knightwise> Lol
  <foobarry> /clear
  <knightwise> I run all the services I need in VMs on top of my linux machine
  <knightwise> the linux "host" machine is basically a NAS with VMware software on it sharing out all the data via samba
  <diddledan__> knightwise: which hypervisor tech do you use?
  <diddledan__> aah
  <diddledan__> vmware server or workstation?
  <knightwise> Virtualbox on a LMDE machine
  <knightwise> 3 Vm"s taking care of the different services like plex , remote login etc etc
  <directhex> vbox :'(
  <knightwise> that way I can easily swap out functionalities/servers without having to touch the base system
  <diddledan__> yeah, I don't like vbox since oracle pwn'd it
  <foobarry> massive headache incoming
  <foobarry> think i've caught the kids cold
  <BigRedS> popey: linuxes, generally debian
  <BigRedS> so I tried virt-manager and LXC but LXC's helper scripts are a bit broken in Wheezy
  <MartijnVdS> I don't trust LXC
  <BigRedS> and more than once something's been confused by that always-up virtbr1 device
  <MartijnVdS> it's not virtual enough
  <BigRedS> we use openvz a fair bit at work so I'm fairly comfortable with the concept, and LXC is the modern and hip equivalent
  <Myrtti> well then http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-partners-with-google-flight-search
  <diplo> I've never tried openvz is it easy enough to use, I've tried kvm multiple times with virt-manager etc and just don't seem to get on with it that well
  <popey> BigRedS: desktop or server I meant, kvm should be good enough IMO
  <popey> had my eyes tested today. pondering what best value for specs is
  <popey> I'll only need them for close up work (soldering) currently, but will need them for reading in the future (3 years maybe)
  <popey> do people buy online or is it a case that you really need to go to bricks & mortar?
  <MartijnVdS> popey: people get their eyes measured "IRL", but I know a few who've ordered glasses online after that
  <MartijnVdS> all you need is the inter-eye distance, and the lens parameters
  <popey> i have some numbers on a card, I guess that's it?
  <diplo> I've not done online yet, but I'm debating it next time
  <diplo> Yeah your report card from the opticians is all you need
  <foobarry> who tested your eyes?
  <popey> sphere, cyl and axis
  <diplo> http://www.glasses.com/virtual-try-on.html
  <diplo> Saw this the other day
  <popey> +1.25, -0.5, 90 and +1.25, -0.25, 90
  <popey> that look like the right numbers?
  <popey> foobarry: optician
  <foobarry> no idea about this but do people usually go for 2nd opinion?
  <foobarry> or is it clear cut
  <MartijnVdS> popey: those look like mine, except I have -1.50ish
  <popey> i trust this guy
  <diplo> popey: yep, same as mine :)
  <MartijnVdS> popey: it's sphere/cylinder/axis, one for each eye
  <popey> been to him before
  <MartijnVdS> (cylinder + cylinder-axis, there's also a lesser-used prism + prism-axis)
  <MartijnVdS> http://www.vision-training.com/en/Vision%20test/Understand%20presecription.html
  <popey> he said he slightly over-prescribed so they'd last longer as they turn from "doing electronics with the kids" glasses into "reading" glasses
  <popey> ta
  <bigcalm> popey: I order my glasses from these people: http://www.spex4less.com/
  <awilkins> I just have a pair of +1 reading glasses I bought off the shelf in Sainsbury's
  <awilkins> Plastic lenses, no frames
  <awilkins> Useful up to about 2 feet away from my eyeballs
  <bigcalm> awilkins: you have a very long nose
   * popey hugs laney for bug 959505
  <lubotu3> bug 959505 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "gedit wants to save in "recently used" by default" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959505
  <foobarry> \o/
  <foobarry> gets me a lot
  <Laney> not my favourite behaviour
  <MartijnVdS> didn't upstream claim it was a feature?
  <Laney> it didn't happen by accident
  <MartijnVdS> i.e. it was a feature
  <foobarry> however its not possible
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: Gnome devs are not known for common sense
  <foobarry> so a half baked feature
  <awilkins> Recently used can contain folders...
  <awilkins> ... but yes, it's mostly a bit daft
  <bigcalm> Maybe the idea is that you then chose a directory from those recently used?
  <Dave2> Solution: use a real text editor
   * Dave2 hides.
  <bigcalm> Use a real IDE ;)
  <TwistedLucidity> Dave2: MS Word?
  <Dave2> Said real IDE being called "vim"
  <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: Excel of course.
  <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: that's also the One True Database System
  <awilkins> The main thing that annoys me about Unix text editors (including vim) is they append a final line ending to files even when there wasn't one
  <awilkins> It's a niche thing
  <Seeker`> C files are meant to have one
  <MartijnVdS> you can configure them to not do that ususally
  <awilkins> But there are certain files in certain VCS repositories (bzr, I'm looking at you) that don't cope with it
  <popey> Dave2: gvim does the same as gedit â»
  <Seeker`> you should only be writing C on unix :P
  <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: and Perl
  <TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: C? Pfft. Use butterflies.
  <Seeker`> none of this VCS nonsense :P Remember, its 1970!
  <awilkins> popey, I don't run into that with gvim usually because I either use :w ~/thefile.txt
  <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: rcs.
  <Dave2> popey: :w ~/foo.txt
  <awilkins> Or I'm editing an existing file
  <MartijnVdS> or I'm editing a non-existing (but named from the command line) file
  <awilkins> That too
  <awilkins> I very rarely click the menus in gvim except for things like colorscheme
  <awilkins> And Copy and Paste, ironically, when I want to paste to another app
  <awilkins> Although I think ctrl-shift-C etc work actually /me checks
  <awilkins> No. They don't. Maybe in vim in a terminal.
  <awilkins> Yes, that works
  <Dave2> +gP to paste, or something
  <MartijnVdS> awilkins: "*p
  <Dave2> "gP
  <MartijnVdS> register * = system clipboard
  <Dave2> oh, that's a bit easier than "+gP
  <MartijnVdS> register + = "copy/paste" clipboard (* = middle click clipboard)
  <Dave2> I shall have to remember that
  <Dave2> ahh,
  <Dave2> that makes sense
  <Dave2> I usually don't bother and just use the menus but decided that I should really learn it
  <MartijnVdS> I'm thinking of just mapping it to Ctrl+Shift+[CV]
  <bigcalm> From a Rackspace support ticket "There are a couple of reasons why your edge device is dropping this connection. One of those is that some devices don't support multiple SAs running at the same time." - What's an SA?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: context?
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: VPN
  <bigcalm> IPsec
  <MartijnVdS> security associations
  <bigcalm> Okay, I still don't understand :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Basic IPSec ;)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPsec#Security_association
  <bigcalm> Humm, okay
   * bigcalm passes the buck :D
  <jpds> ipsec++
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: time to go to ipsec training! ;)
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'd rather not :P That's what Rackspace are there to do
  <bigcalm> Anybody who has used Walsh Western before know what "PLAN COMMITTED" is meant to be?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: wasn't SuperMatt going to work for them? :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: git add ~/.plan; git commit
  <RaxMatt> going to work for you?
  <RaxMatt> *who?
  <MartijnVdS> RaxMatt: Rackspace?
  <RaxMatt> yes
  <RaxMatt> I'm here now
  <RaxMatt> Should I just start highlighting Rackspace so I can support you all from here?
  <MartijnVdS> RaxMatt: see bigcalm's lines about vpns and rackspace :)
  <RaxMatt> I'm actually not allowed to do customer stuff yet :P
  <bigcalm> I'm acting as a little bit of a middle man at the moment I fear
  <MartijnVdS> http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-2-21jan14-en.htm
  <MartijnVdS> new GTLDs
  <shauno> they seem to have burried the list quite well
  <jussi> MooDoo: I am, but then again, you said ignre it... :P
  <bigcalm> Crontab: */1 * * * * - run once per minute?
  <popey> or * * * * *
  <directhex> */1 == *
  <bigcalm> Indeed, but I've come across the above from a client
  <bigcalm> Just checking that what they've done is weird
  <bigcalm> There are instances of */2 and */5, I guess things got whittled down to */1 for some
  <bigcalm> Date	Time	Location	Activity
  <bigcalm> 22/01/14	 16:07	 WWI - LUTTERWORTH	 ORDER DISPATCHED FROM HUB.
  <bigcalm> Lutterworth is 1 hour 14 minutes away from me according to google maps
  <bigcalm> What are the chances of a delivery tonight?
  <popey> KiB Mem:  16314304 total, 14374528 used,  1939776 free,     1700 buffers
  <popey> KiB Swap:  8501244 total,        0 used,  8501244 free.  6869884 cached Mem
  <popey> \o/
  <popey> still no swap used
  <bigcalm> How are you using 14GB?
  <popey>  1710 root      20   0 1380056 1.006g 160268 S  11.6  6.5  45:28.05 Xorg
  <popey> I'm not using 14G
  <popey> 6.8G is cache
  <bigcalm> 14374528 = 13.7GB
  <popey> you're not reading it right
  <popey> used doesn't mean "consumed by applications" in top
  <bigcalm> I never do :)
  <popey> heh
  <bigcalm> I've never understood the output of top and free
  <popey> used includes cached AIUI
  <bigcalm> I see
  <bigcalm> RaxMatt: have you heard of the name Curtis Nicholson?
  <bigcalm> He's one of our 'SErvice Delivery Managers'
  <bigcalm> Is there a crontab setting that might be disabling sending mail by default? I'm scratching my head with this client's server
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: only by disabling cron.. you could set MAILTO= to some invalid/nullrouted address
  <bigcalm> I have a file of crontab jobs in /etc/cron.d/. If I edit that file, when would the changes take effect?
  <MartijnVdS> the moment cron notices the file to be changed
   * bigcalm grumbles at this server
  <bigcalm> I wonder if there is a problem with this file of cronjobs
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: restart crond and check syslog
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it'll grumble there if there's a broken file
  <bigcalm> Ta :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but only once.. so if you put a broken crontab somewhere, it will *ignore* it (permissions wrong = broken too)
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: so I see!
  <bigcalm> Jan 22 18:22:01 localhost cron[9591]: (*system*td-mail-crons) WRONG FILE OWNER (/etc/cron.d/td-mail-crons)
  <bigcalm> This is annoying :)
  <MartijnVdS> those files should be root:root
  <bigcalm> Jan 22 18:24:01 localhost cron[9591]: (*system*td-mail-crons) INSECURE MODE (group/other writable) (/etc/cron.d/td-mail-crons)
  <bigcalm> Yeah
  <bigcalm> Meh
  <MartijnVdS> but yeah it only warns once per restart I think.. and maybe once every time you change the file or change permissions on the file
  <bigcalm> We're using jenkins for automatic deployment of a project. One of the bits is a crontab job file
  <MartijnVdS> that must be able to set permissions
  <bigcalm> I understand that the file needs to be secure
  <bigcalm> But getting this crontab file deployed automatically is proving a tad annoying
  <Rix0n> Hi, I've not dabbled in linux/ubuntu for a while, and I'm running 12.04... I've forgotten the name of the package I need to be able to mount NTFS filesystems. I've enabled the universe and multiverse sources but still can't find what I'm looking for.
  <bigcalm> Weeee
  <bigcalm> Jan 22 18:28:01 localhost cron[9591]: Error: bad minute; while reading /etc/cron.d/td-mail-crons
  <Rix0n> oh wait i take that back, I just installed restricted-extras and I can now browse them
  <bigcalm> Jan 22 18:28:01 localhost cron[9591]: (*system*td-mail-crons) ERROR (Syntax error, this crontab file will be ignored)
   * bigcalm sighs
  <bigcalm> Ah, I think that error is down to a comment line of ###########################
  <bigcalm> I think cron expects all comments to start with '# ' (space)
  <bigcalm> Every line in the crontab file is commented out and yet it still complains about 'bad minute'
  <bigcalm> I think I might give up for the evening
  <bigcalm> Shower before LUG I think
  <DJones> Heh, unusual (and puts things into perspective in the real world) response to a software support request https://twitter.com/andrey_butov/status/426018565561401344/photo/1
  <RaxMatt> bigcalm: nope
  <MartijnVdS> aw poo. I lost my Debian keyring PGP key about a decade ago in a disk crash :(
  <MartijnVdS> (not that I don't already have all of Valve's games..)
  <Laney> future ones!
  <daftykins> huh?
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-23
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <Myrtti> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lindaliukas/hello-ruby
  <Guest13800> heylo
  <MooDoo> that looks great Myrtti
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Handwriting Day! :-D
  <MooDoo> morning JamesTait :)
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <diplo> Morning all
  <MooDoo> morning
  <brobostigon> week two of workfare/mwa here i come,
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
  <bigcalm> !14.04
  <lubotu3> Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) will be the 20th release of Ubuntu.  See the announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295 for more info. support in #ubuntu+1
  <darrenflaherty> hey jpds
  <MooDoo> bigcalm: I'm running LTS on my laptop, looking forward to upgrading to Trusty :)
  <bigcalm> MooDoo: is there an ISO I can get?
  <MooDoo> bigcalm: for trusty?
  <bigcalm> Or do I have to install 13.10 and then try and move to 14.04?
  <bigcalm> MooDoo: yes
  <MooDoo> well there is this page - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
  <MooDoo> bigcalm: what version are you on at the moment?
  <bigcalm> MooDoo: not yet installed. This is for my new laptop that just arrived :)
  <MooDoo> bigcalm: go for Saucy then, it's the current version
  <MooDoo> 13.10, then you can upgrade when it's released, unless your a die hard and like to play :D
  <bigcalm> Ah, dailey-live. I was searching the cdimage site but didn't really know where to look
  <MooDoo> I just llike to use LTS releases as I'm not bothered about cutting edge tech for what I use
  <bigcalm> MooDoo: I realise that, I wanted to see how well +1 worked out of the box :)
  <MooDoo> ah there you go then :)
   * bigcalm curses his desktop's wifi - limiting the download to 4ish MB/s
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you should talk to knightwise ;)
   * foobarry has been virused.
  <MooDoo> foobarry: oooops
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: what kind?
  <darrenflaherty> drussell, hi
  <Myrtti> -22C and I need to go get some food and mail a letter X-|
  <foobarry> MartijnVdS: headache/high temp/pains/cough
   * foobarry crawls back to bed
  <MooDoo> ah not computer virus lol
  <bigcalm> foobarry: I seriously thought you meant a computer virus. Doh. Get well soon
  <MooDoo> bigcalm: you're not the only one :d
  <darrenflaherty> jnick_tait: hi
  <bigcalm> Right, how does one transfer the 14.04 ISO onto a USB stick in Linux? The Startup Disk Creator keeps on failing me
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: dd
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: dd if=isofile of=/dev/sdX
  <bigcalm> That all?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's a hybrid image, which works (and boots) in CD-ROM mode (BIOS and UEFI) and USB stick mode (also BIOS and UEFI)
  <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
  <bigcalm> sdc
  <bigcalm> dd if=Downloads/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdc
  <bigcalm> Nice and simple
  <directhex> clearly the tech was stolen from Ye Olde SteamOSe
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <MartijnVdS> directhex: obviously, where else?
  <directhex> (note: THIS IS A JOKE, THE REVERSE IS TRUE)
  <bigcalm> Before turning the new laptop on, I have already replaced the windows8 HDD with a blank SSD
  <bigcalm> Now to see if the image boots
  <bigcalm> dd says that it's finished its work yet the USB stick is still flashing :S
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: cache!
  <MartijnVdS> maybe waiting for 'sync' helps?
  <bigcalm> Yeah, fun
  <bigcalm> I'm surprised with dd though. Would have thought that it would have done write immediately
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: add "fsync" to the command line :)
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'll try to remember that for next time ;)
  <bigcalm> Installing \o/
  <bigcalm> The install screen says "Welcome to Ubuntu 13.10"
  <MooDoo> yay
  <bigcalm> I'm guessing that there are more important things to do before the install screen text
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'd file a bug just in case
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <bigcalm> The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot.
  <MartijnVdS> uhhh
  <MartijnVdS> how did you partition the drive?
  <MartijnVdS> just "Automatic use all" or manually?
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: left eveything to to the automatic stuff
  <bigcalm> The "Install crashed" window will now not close
  <bigcalm> Issued a sudo shutdown -P now from tty2
  <bigcalm> Now, do I try with 13.10 or try and tinker with the efi system?
  <bigcalm> popey: ping :)
  <bigcalm> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1873959/solved-ubuntu-linux-installing-computer.html
  <bigcalm> The guy gives up and installs Fedora
  <bigcalm> Appointment with my bank manager in a bit. Best have a shave :S
  <diplo> Anybody here use VMWare ESX with failover? ( redundancy )
  <bigcalm> Good news about OZC
  <MartijnVdS> Oh?
  <bigcalm> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/toshiba-purchase-of-ocz-finalized-first-new-products-released/
  <davmor2> Morning all
   * foobarry resurfaces
  <bashrc> periscope up
  <MooDoo> morning davmor2
  <davmor2> Hey MooDoo 'ow am ya chap
  <davmor2> bigcalm: is your spycamera here yet?
  <MooDoo> davmor2: fedup.com :D
  <davmor2> MooDoo: have a sadtrombone.com you won't feel so glum
  <MooDoo> new job please lol
  <davmor2> MooDoo: take a look see at http://www.canonical.com/careers
  <RaxMatt> hey guys
  <MartijnVdS> MattMan
  <RaxMatt> Â¬.Â¬
  <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah just had a look, liked the look of the support engineer one, but can't speak manderin ;)
  <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no better way to learn than immersion
  <davmor2> MooDoo: wuss ;)
  <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I think mandering is a bit over my head :)
  <MooDoo> davmor2: geez thanks for the support :p
  <knightwise> afternoon everyone
  <MooDoo> hello knightwise
  <foobarry> anyone get a letter from the tax man today?
  <foobarry> about new tax code
  <knightwise> hey MooDoo :)
  <knightwise>  how are you guys today
   * knightwise is playing with his Xfce box , tweakin it a bit
  <knightwise> Does anybody know the name of the backup application that is the standard one in ubuntu ?
  <foobarry> dejadup?
  <knightwise> i Like the fact you can backup your stuff anywhere
  <knightwise> ah :) Dejadup ! :)
  <MooDoo> trying to introduce code club to my local school :D
  <bigcalm> davmor2: yes. Tried to install 14.04. Looks like it got to the end except for this error: <bigcalm> The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot.
  <bigcalm> The screen is very nice
  <davmor2> xnox: ^
  <xnox> bigcalm: do you have full install log? "ubuntu-bug ubiquity" if using desktop cd, or collect syslog if using d-i.
  <xnox> bigcalm: it shouldn't be a problem if grub-efi-amd64-signed fails to install, that only has detached secureboot signatures.
  <bigcalm> xnox: Once I OK'd that error, the whoops something crashed window appeared and would not clear
  <bigcalm> I haven't tried booting since installing
  <bigcalm> Will give it a go :)
  <bigcalm> Ah, no boot device found :)
  <xnox> bigcalm: i'd be interested in that crash dialog to be submitted before reboot... or ubuntu-bug ubiquity also before reboot.... =)
  <xnox> bigcalm: otherwise, can you fetch /var/log/installer/* from that system, if there is anything?
  <xnox> bigcalm: e.g. by booting back into live cd and mounting the target.
  <bigcalm> xnox: do you want me to start the install from fresh and then try to provide you with information. Or do you want me to boot to the 'try before you buy' desktop and try to provide you with information?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I'd say xnox is awesome but he does have to get his head out of the doorways, so I won't :)
  <xnox> bigcalm: from the "try before you buy" provide me with info =)
  <bigcalm> xnox: okay, walk me though it :)
  <xnox> bigcalm: boot into live cd, click Try Ubuntu, "ctrl-alt-t" on the keyboard to start terminal, "sudo nautilus"
  <MartijnVdS> or Ctrl+Alt+F1, and just go from the terminal :)
  <xnox> bigcalm: under devices on the left you should see your current hard-drives, click on them to mount
  <xnox> bigcalm: than, find the most recent install and open up "var/log/installer" i want all of those files copied & pasted into e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com
  <xnox> (e.g. open firefox on the left) assuming you have internet connection.
  <bigcalm> Sorry, a silly client phoned
   * bigcalm presses keys
  <bigcalm> var/log/installer does not exist
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: on the (not-quite-)installed system
  <xnox> bigcalm: =(((( reinstall
  <xnox> bigcalm: and if the install crashes, don't reboot, press "ctrl-alt-t" and do "ubuntu-bug ubiquity"
  <xnox> or if poop-ups appear click through to file a bug.
  <bigcalm> Will do
  <knightwise> :) Deja-du :) Its like Crashplan for linux :)
  <bigcalm> Tried to do that last bit, it didn't work
  <directhex> crashplan is like crashplan for linux!
  <knightwise> directhex: I think i should give the headless version of crashplan a try on linux ,
  <knightwise> because the "regular" one isn't any good :(
  <knightwise> keeps storing updates in the wrong location
  <bigcalm> Waiting for LP to process the report and let me finish it
  <bigcalm> Does this usually take a while?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: about a minute, I guess
  <bigcalm> Still waiting
  <bigcalm> Oh, it did finish :)
  <bigcalm> Just that the screen looks the same as it did before - laptop is on the floor while I got on with work
  <MartijnVdS> â« let the laptops hit the floor
  <MartijnVdS> ?
  <twager> Anyone tell me if the Nokia Lumia mounts as a block device in Linux ?
  <davmor2> twager: I'm assuming mtp same as android
  <knightwise> Mass storage device
  <knightwise> at least the 620 does
  <bigcalm> xnox: bug 1271934
  <lubotu3> bug 1271934 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "14.04 failed to complete install with the error "The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed' package failed to install into /target/."" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271934
  <xnox> bigcalm: scary!
  <bigcalm> xnox: it is?
  <MartijnVdS> Jan 23 13:19:07 ubuntu ubiquity: E: Failed to fetch cdrom://Ubuntu 14.04 LTS _Trusty Tahr_ - Alpha amd64 (20140123)/pool/main/g/grub2/grub-efi-amd64-bin_2.00-22_amd64.deb  Hash Sum mismatch
  <MartijnVdS> so either your 'dd' went wrong, or your copy of the .iso got corrupted somehow, or the copy on the server is corrupt.
  <bigcalm> Okay, I'll start by re-running dd and do another install
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'd restart with checking the ISO :)
  <xnox> bigcalm: your media is most-likely borked.
  <bigcalm> Yay
  <twager> davmor2: Don't think so as my xperia mounts ok but my old sanfran does not..
  <MartijnVdS> xnox: it could be that the iso he downloaded is borked
  <xnox> bigcalm: yeah or that.
  <xnox> bigcalm: i have the same iso stamp and grub-efi-amd64-signed .deb md5sum matches on disk and in Packages.gz file.
  <xnox> bigcalm: verify iso md5sum after download, and recreate your install media.
  <bigcalm> d2ef4f5333aec03ea1ca11abd2f1c0fc *trusty-desktop-amd64.iso
  <bigcalm> d2ef4f5333aec03ea1ca11abd2f1c0fc  trusty-desktop-amd64.iso
  <bigcalm> md5sum is correct
  <smittix> afternoon all
  <knightwise> hey smittix
  <knightwise> :)
  <bigcalm> What was the option to write at once rather than have it cache?
  <bigcalm> dd
  <xnox> bigcalm: hm, can you do $ mount trusty-desktop-amd64.iso /mnt/
  <xnox> wait, nah,
  <xnox> bigcalm: boot into "try ubuntu" and do $ md5sum /cdrom/pool/main/g/grub2-signed/grub-efi-amd64-signed_1.27+2.00-22_amd64.deb
  <xnox> bigcalm: and compare it with mounting iso locally, I get: d4bd5b4f9dcd9876cf50e04396c2f930
  <bigcalm> xnox: I get that md5sum as well
  <davmor2> bigcalm: what are you burning it from?
  <xnox> bigcalm: click on network manager on the top right and disable interentz
  <bigcalm> Ug, I've just shutdown the machine again
  <xnox> bigcalm: wait a second.
   * bigcalm waits :)
  <xnox> bigcalm: it's not -signed which is borked in your log but grub-efi-amd64-bin
  <bigcalm> davmor2: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso
  <davmor2> bigcalm: no I use k3b how did you burn the image?
  <xnox> f35d0af7f65c6ee2e58fa2cbe1577360  ./pool/main/g/grub2/grub-efi-amd64-bin_2.00-22_amd64.deb
  <bigcalm> davmor2: oh, dd
  <xnox> bigcalm: can you check md5sum of above (prefix with cdrom) from within "Try Ubuntu session" ?
  <bigcalm> xnox: sure, one moment
  <bigcalm> Yay, different number!
  <davmor2> bigcalm: that might be the issue then.  You want to use growisofs iirc if you are burning from the cli.  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CdDvd/Burning bottom of the page unless you are using a usb stick
  <xnox> bigcalm: i rest my case, sir =) re-create media ;-)
  <xnox> bigcalm: there should a boot option - press esc at the beginning to execute / validate installation media.
  <xnox> bigcalm: it takes a while, but helps to catch errors like these.
  <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6803047/
  <bigcalm> Okay
  <bigcalm> xnox: thanks for the help :)
  <bigcalm> Check finished: errors found in 17 files!
  <MartijnVdS> time to buy a new USB stick
  <BigRedS> Apparently there's a site/toy that'll let you 'open' another webpage in it and play around with the HTML as a way of learning HTML; anyone know what it is?
  <MartijnVdS> Ctrl+Shift+J in Chrome ;)
  <MartijnVdS> you can edit the HTML and see the effects immediately from there
  <BigRedS> ooh, nifty
  <MartijnVdS> also CSS and JS, of course
  <foobarry> if this is real then cool http://messagetoeagle.com/easterislandbodies.php#.UuEjunhFDQo
  <MartijnVdS> message toe agle?
  <foobarry> why did nobody dig before?
  <MooDoo> foobarry: http://www.livescience.com/20580-easter-island-heads-bodies.html
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: the images look shopped
  <Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ahu_Tongariki.jpg
  <Myrtti> well, the news of the petroglyphs hasn't yet made surface elsewhere it seems
  <Myrtti> petroglyphs themselves though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island#Petroglyphs
  <bigcalm> Does the 5th one have a cake on its head?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that must mean he's the boss
  <bigcalm> :D
  <Myrtti> bigcalm: no, a 'pukao'
  <Myrtti> damn you and the person who set me on a Wikipedia binge
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: at least it's not tvtropes
  <bigcalm> HEhe, aww
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LandmarkOfLore
  <Myrtti> ahha! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai#Markings_.28post_stone_working.29
  <Myrtti> hÃ¶h
  <foobarry> we nicked one for the brit museum?
  <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: neither that article or "weaponised landmark" mentions the jumping Moai from Super Mario on Gameboy
  <bigcalm> Re-created the install media. Now running the check before installing :)
  <foobarry> time for a kip
  <bigcalm> No errors \o/
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Super Mario Land's World 3 has Moai not only in the background, but also as enemies. (They're called by other names in the manual, but come on.) Even the boss is a stone-throwing Moai. Not to mention the fact that World 3 is called Easton.
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EenieMeenieMinyMoai
  <Myrtti> right
  <Laney> wow, just started bucketing down
  <MooDoo> yeah here too :D
  <Laney> funny that
  <diplo> Blue skies here, for once no rain!
  <RaxMatt> my servers are on rackspace now \o/
  <RaxMatt> and by jimminy they're fast
  <bigcalm> I have a working laptop. Yay :)
  <bigcalm> xnox & davmor2: thank you both :)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: you're welcome dude enjoy all the goodness
   * bigcalm waits for things to break :P
  <bigcalm> I see that there is a lack of a battery monitor icon :(
  <davmor2> bigcalm: on the installed system ther eshould be
  <bigcalm> davmor2: I don't see it
   * bigcalm shuts down to get on with his darn work
  <SuperMatt> yo yo yo
  <davmor2> bigcalm: go into settings power and see what the status is for the show battery status in the menu bar I have it when battery is present
  <SuperMatt> In west philidelphia bored and raised, on the playground is where I spend most of my days
  <davmor2> SuperMatt: fired already that was quick ;)
  <bigcalm> davmor2: as do I
  <davmor2> SuperMatt: at least your old nick^wjob hadn't gone hey
  <RaxMatt> I'm still here
  <SuperMatt> I'm just porting my server across
  <MooDoo> SuperMatt: RaxMatt free hosting now on their cloud?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm just updating I'll see if mine disappears
  <bigcalm> Wow, I had a newer version of ubuntu than davmor2 for a change
  <SuperMatt> MooDoo: yup
  <davmor2> bigcalm: busy working on the older version for the apps :)
  <MooDoo> SuperMatt: nice
  <davmor2> bigcalm: oh no I'm up-to-date so just you then dude :P
  <bigcalm> davmor2: ho hum
  <bigcalm> Also, who thought it would be a good idea to make the track pad buttons also part of the track pad?
  <davmor2> forgot the archive is frozen for alpha2
  <davmor2> bigcalm: that is the issue on mine that I told you about really annoying right.  You can get used to it though
  <bigcalm> davmor2: means that I can no longer use 2 hands to move windows around
  <bigcalm> Guess I'll continue to use an external mouse
  <davmor2> bigcalm: yes you can
  <davmor2> bigcalm: left click and move works fine here
  <davmor2> bigcalm: or you can just click down and keep your finger pressed down and move it
  <MartijnVdS> bit it annoys!
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: indeed it's when you get everything lined up nicely and then go to click on the button and it moves the cursor nothing worse
  <bigcalm> The touch screen is odd in Ubuntu
  <MartijnVdS> that too
  <MartijnVdS> can't get scrolling to work with it
  <MartijnVdS> it's "just" a mouse pointer
  <bigcalm> Yep
  <popey> bigcalm: pong
  <popey> I think I may have a memory leak
  <popey>   PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
  <popey>  1710 root      20   0 2671944 2.212g 210352 S  12.6 14.2 108:28.86 Xorg
  <bigcalm> popey: too late, xnox and davmor2 helped me get my laptop install fixed
  <MartijnVdS> popey: only 2GB? You have 16! ;)
  <popey> your spycam arrived?
  <foobarry> resources exapnd to what's avaiable...
  <popey> its also constant 10%
  <popey> which it never was on saucy
  <davmor2> popey: what have was told you about the ear buds, when you feel resistance stop pushing
  <popey> davmor2: you on trusty on intel?
  <popey> (or anyone)
  <davmor2> popey: I am
  <davmor2> popey: it is optimus gfx
  <popey> top.. press m, is xorg near top?
  <popey> no, intel
  <davmor2> but the nvidia bit is broken
  <davmor2> popey: second
  <popey> my latest ebay item arrived broken â¹
  <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141142336606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  <foobarry> compiz top on my 1204 box grr
  <popey> http://imgur.com/KiZEPZ6,nspyQCB
  <bigcalm> popey: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/426375609325858816/photo/1
  <bigcalm> Well this isn't good
  <bigcalm> I can't shutdown my laptop
  <popey> omg!
  <bigcalm> It constantly reboots
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's spying on you
  <popey> laptop with numeric keypad â¨
  <bigcalm> popey: the keyboard is rather odd
  <bigcalm> Not used the laptop in anger yet
  <bigcalm> I've tried sudo shutdown -P now
  <bigcalm> Even that rebooted
  <bigcalm> To take the battery out, I will have to unscrew the back of the machine
  <bigcalm> Time to press and hold the power button
  <davmor2> popey: htop makes it clearer still :)
  <davmor2> popey: I a laptop with an numeric pad too, it's great for typing in credit card numbers :D
   * davmor2 hugs htop it's so much easier to follow than top :)
  <popey> oh jeez
  <popey> every single damn time I say top
  <popey> someone somewhere on the internet tells me to use htop
  <Dave2> popey: have you tried htop?
  <popey> "no".
  <MartijnVdS> Dave2: is the "h" silent (like in American "herb")
  <popey> i even ran top just now, took a screenshot to put online and then thought "nah, someone will say use htop"
  <popey> goits
  <davmor2> popey: top is great for a quick assessment but I find it easier to follow things on htop.  Which is all I said not that you should use it :P
  <foobarry> do u have to be dumb to get on daytime quiz shows?
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: "u"? are you trying to get on a daytime quiz show? ;)
  <popey> i just don't see it
  <popey> http://imgur.com/qJ36U9Z
  <popey> "Is xorg using lots of RAM?" -> "Yes"
  <MartijnVdS> popey: do you have 3d-heavy programs running?
  <popey> nope
  <foobarry> htop can show threaded processes or not
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: so can top
  <foobarry> htop shows colours
  <popey> it's like me saying "can you google for foo"
  <popey> "No, I'd rather use BING"
  <popey> I DO NOT CARE
  <popey> the question was "is xorg using ram" not "what's your favorite cpu monitor"
  <popey> meh
  <popey> â»
  <foobarry> popey got trolled
  <popey> 5GB disk cache tho â»
  <MartijnVdS> popey: and an SSD?
  <popey> two
  <popey>  / or one, /home on the other
  <popey> http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/deals/62910-ibm-sells-server-division-to-lenovo
  <MartijnVdS> popey: still, all SSD
  <popey> ya
  <popey> no rust
  <foobarry> http://www.itnews.com.au/News/370344,hacker-gets-facebooks-keys-to-the-kingdom.aspx
  <JGJones> I might be a bit late to the party, but I was wondering my dear friend popey if you had heard of this excellent CPU monitor. It comes with colour too. As an additional bonus, it also have an extra letter over top. This letter is h. Most probably stand for Hyper and we all know Hyper make anything better. So popey, allow me to introduce you to htop!
  <popey> "lol"
  <JGJones> No love for atop though? :P
  <diplo> Or iotop
  <foobarry> i've got 50 mins of enfroced bed rest, what programme/youtube/etc can i watch?
  <bigcalm> foobarry: hat films
  <bigcalm> foobarry: they are nutty :)
  <foobarry> iplayer is still flash based? ugh
  <bigcalm> get_iplayer FTW!
  <bigcalm> And the web interface even more so :D
  <foobarry> chrome frw
  <popey> foobarry: here's one for you.. only 11 mins though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlZ8iPaufTg
  <popey> :D
  <Myrtti> bigcalm: get-iplayer is nice, because you can set it to use a proxy by default ;-)
  <popey> Myrtti: feel free to send me your tv license fee and I'll passs it on, promise.
  <Myrtti> popey: I'll have to ask the SO for that
  <foobarry> popey: seemed rather incorrect view in the first 10 seconds
  <popey> yeah, he dives right in
  <popey> was only joshing
  <foobarry> showed blatant ignorance
  <foobarry> he lost me already
  <popey> heh
  <shauno> oh tihs goes on the "if you do this" list.  uses a setting "maxLenght".  if you subconsciously use the correct spelling, no workey.
  <bigcalm> Anybody know why my laptop reboots instead of powering off?
  <davmor2> bigcalm: it hates you?
  <bigcalm> davmor2: that's a given
  <drussell> lol
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I can't think of an obvious reason why it wouldn't shut down
  <drussell> davmor2: what's the laptop? and recent change or always been like that?
  <drussell> davmor2: and same behaviour from VT as from gui?
  <bigcalm> It shuts down, and then powers back up again. I wonder if it's something in the BIOS (or whatever it's called these days)
  <davmor2> drussell: not my laptop bigcalms
  <bigcalm> drussell: http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537
  <drussell> davmor2: sorry, apologies, not paying enough attention!
  <bigcalm> drussell: running 14.04
  <drussell> bigcalm: always done it, or new behaviour?
  <bigcalm> drussell: the machine was delivered this morning :)
  <drussell> bigcalm: hehehe awesome, congrats :o)
  <drussell> bigcalm: sometimes they need different acpi quirks loaded to get around that kind of issue
  <bigcalm> drussell: I thought it might be an apci issue, just don't know what the best settings will be :)
  <drussell> bigcalm: if you switch to a VT after having logged out, what does "sudo shutdown -h -q now" do?
  <bigcalm> I haven't tried with -q
  <bigcalm> But -P now reboots
  <drussell> bigcalm: interesting
  <bigcalm> Is -h -q the same as -P now?
  <drussell> bigcalm: the -q shouldn't make any difference, just quiet
  <bigcalm> Ah, -h is halt
  <drussell> bigcalm: yup
  <bigcalm> I'll try just doing a halt
  <drussell> bigcalm: H P and h are all the same
  <drussell> bigcalm: are you using the nvidia binary drivers also?
  <bigcalm> drussell: not yet
  <bigcalm> lspci: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6803821/
  <bigcalm> I get the feeling that I'll run into the optimus problems
  <bigcalm> I've issued a halt. I can't tell if it's finished shutting down or has frozen :S
  <drussell> bigcalm: it's likely.... if you're not planning to use the nvidia hardware, can you disable it from the uefi settings?
  <drussell> bigcalm: lol @ shutdown or frozen
  <bigcalm> The ubuntu and 5 dots are on screen with the 1st one orange
  <bigcalm> I held down power
  <bigcalm> I want to use nvidia!
  <drussell> bigcalm: in that case, I'd suggest installing the binary drivers, see if that changes the behaviour for better or worse
  <bigcalm> Are you still talking about the shut down issue?
  <bigcalm> I'll get around to graphics some other time :)
  <Myrtti> oops http://usvsth3m.com/post/74285062011/you-wont-believe-why-the-victoria-line-is-currently
  <davmor2> bigcalm: stay on intel for now the nvidia guys still haven't fixed the 3.13 kernel issue yet
  <bigcalm> davmor2: that's what I thought
  <davmor2> bigcalm: it's in the works apparently
  <davmor2> drussell: optimus is broken on 3.13 the intel part is fine but the minute you enable the nvidia bit it falls back to safe gfx mode
  <drussell> davmor2: ahhhhhh I thought that'd been fixed :o(
   * Laney gives in and mails directhex for a key
  <mapps> applied for another job
  <mapps> :D
  <mapps> annoying it just says salary 'competitive'
  <bigcalm> mapps: what kind of job?
  <mapps> system engineer architecht fanc title really.way more fancy than needs be
  <mapps> working for William Hill in London
  <mapps> annoying when they just say competitive and stuff
  <mapps> they had a few other roles but im not doing tchnical lead/service support roles 20-25k and living in London?
  <Laney> "crap but we know someone will take it anyway"
  <mapps> yea definitely
  <mapps> and sure if you live 10 to a house you'd manage
  <mapps> but i couldn't manage on 25k in London paying 1200+ rent
  <TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Nice one :-) You got an indirect mention in ars: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/steamos-beta-adds-legacy-bios-official-dual-boot-support/
  <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, old news! the new news is https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/01/msg00006.html
  <ali1234> i'm impressed how quickly valve picked that stuff up. they've also been very responsive to the trivial bugs i reported on steam for linux
  <ali1234> which were just silly stuff like "your XDG shortcuts are wrong"
  <ali1234> really trivial stuff that doesn't even affect the officially supported platforms. but they fixed it anyway
  <directhex> their engineers are really sharp
  <directhex> it'd piss them the hell off to be wrong
  <MartijnVdS> like true debian devs ;)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Yeah - I'd heard that a day or two ago.
  <MartijnVdS> Good news: http://www.zdnet.com/uks-security-branch-says-ubuntu-most-secure-end-user-os-7000025312/
  <MartijnVdS> UK's security branch says Ubuntu most secure end-user OS
  <ali1234> NO
  <ali1234> no they don't
  <ali1234> this was well and truly debunked last week
  <MartijnVdS> tell that to zdnet
  <ali1234> zdnet sucks
   * bigcalm waves from the new laptop :)
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <MartijnVdS> it working OK then?
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS, current problem is that I can't power off the machine without holding down the power button. But working okay otherwise :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just suspend instead ;)
  <bigcalm> ;)
  <Myrtti> well, the Hello Ruby-book which had less than ten backers when I first saw it, now has 1213 backers, with less than a day behind it, and has got 537% of the requested funding
  <bigcalm> I really really like the display
  <popey> bigcalm: what happens when you shutdown?
  <bigcalm> popey: the system powers itself back on
  <popey> bigcalm: be interested to know if the upstream kernel does it
  <popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.13-trusty/
  <popey> that one
  <bigcalm> popey: so just install the deb and reboot?
  <popey> debs
  <popey> the two amd64 and the all one
  <bigcalm> Oh yes, headers as well
  <bigcalm> Okay
  <bigcalm> Any particular order?
  <popey> all 3 at once
  <popey> download them and dpkg -i 1.deb 2.deb 3.deb
  <bigcalm> ah, I see
  <popey> and maybe then also grab the 3.12 too
  <popey> be interested to know if this is a regression
   * bigcalm reboot
  <bigcalm> s
  <bigcalm> <bigcalm> Linux iain-laptop 3.13.0-031300-generic #201401192235 SMP Mon Jan 20 03:36:48 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
  <bigcalm> <bigcalm> Shutdown worked correctly and did not power back on until I told it to do so
  <bigcalm> <bigcalm> Do you want me to check 3.12 as well?
  <bigcalm> Wrote all of that in the wrong channel :D
  <bigcalm> davmor2: battery notification icon appears once I've suspended the laptop by closing the lid
  <bigcalm> popey: ?
  <popey> no
  <bigcalm> Okay
  <popey> so 3.13.0-031300-generic works and stock 3.13 does not?
  <popey> bug time!
  <bigcalm> Heh
  <popey> thats good news
  <popey> you can keep using that kernel for now
  <bigcalm> Shall I stick with this kernal?
  <bigcalm> kernel
  <bigcalm> Sure
  <popey> reboot into the broken one and do "ubuntu-bug linux" to file a bug
  <bigcalm> Okay
  <popey> and give us the url or ping jsalisbury with it directly
  <bigcalm> How do I get grub to show when booting? It's booting straight into Ubuntu without asking
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: hold shift I think
  <bigcalm> Okay, I'll try that
  <popey> yes, hold shift as soon as it powers on
  <popey> and choose the second option
  <popey> and then you'll get the list
  <bigcalm> Tally ho!
  <bigcalm> That didn't work :(
  <bigcalm> Keeps booting directly without showing grub
  <bigcalm> Can I edit grub to show the list every time?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in /etc/default/grub comment the GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT line and update-grub
  <bigcalm> Ta
  <MartijnVdS> maybve set GRUB_TIMEOUT to non-zero
  <bigcalm> Reboot :)
  <popey> uhm
  <popey> hold shift earlier
  <popey> like, all the time
  <bigcalm> I did
  <popey> after you press power button
  <directhex> BEEP
  <directhex> KEY HELD ERROR, PRESS F1 TO CONTINUE
  <popey> nope
  <popey> shouldn't, thats why it's shift surely?
  <bigcalm> brb
  <directhex> i once had a motherboard that would throw a "no keyboard, press f1" error if windows ever crashed. shut down cleanly, fine. reboot forcefully, keyboard not found
  <directhex> this applied only to USB keyboards
  <directhex> so i had a cheap old PS/2 keyboard hanging out the back of the PC, just to hit F1 to continue on occasion
  <ali1234> i had a motherboard once where the PS/2 mouse port died
  <ali1234> you cannot disable PS/2 mouse in windows NT, it's built in to the kernel
  <ali1234> so that computer could not ever run windows again
  <MartijnVdS> why not? couldn't it cope with 2 mice at once?
  <ali1234> because it would freeze as soon as anything tried to open the mouse
  <ali1234> even if no mouse was plugged in
  <MartijnVdS> ah.. not just electrically dead
  <MartijnVdS> actively dead ;)
  <bigcalm> Good/bad news
  <bigcalm> I've rebooted with the default kernel 3.13.0-5-generic
  <bigcalm> I can now shut down correctly
  <MartijnVdS> \o/
  <bigcalm> Which means that I don't have a bug to report :S
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you do.. it's still in the Ubuntu kernel
  <MartijnVdS> so they need to get whatever patch is in upstream (or revert whatever they did to break it)
  <bigcalm> I can't reproduce the issue though
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but you can with the Ubuntu kernel right?
  <MartijnVdS> so it's something that's different between stock and ubuntu kernels
  <bigcalm> Linux iain-laptop 3.13.0-5-generic #20-Ubuntu SMP Mon Jan 20 19:56:38 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
  <MartijnVdS> ah wait
  <bigcalm> As far as I can tell, this is the ubuntu kernel
  <MartijnVdS> the *default* kernel.. not the *stock* one, I need to read better :)
  <bigcalm> The issue has gone away since installing the 2nd kernel and then booting with the original one
  <bigcalm> Most confusing
  <MartijnVdS> what if you power down completely and boot the original one
  <MartijnVdS> (so not stock but ubuntu, the previously broken one)
  <bigcalm> I'll give it a go
  <popey> yeah, start from scratch
  <bigcalm> The system is still shutting down correctly with the kernel that comes with Ubuntu 14.04
  <bigcalm> Now to try to remove the upstream kernel and see if it still happens
  <bigcalm> How do I do that? :)
  <bigcalm> I do have a bug to report though :)
  <bigcalm> Bluetooth won't stay disabled
  <bigcalm> !ping
  <lubotu3> pong!
  <oly> hi, any suggestions for me ubuntu 14.10 is locking at boot think its todo with sound
  <oly> 14.04 even, is there a parameter to disable at boot
  <oly> or a module i can block,
  <oly> previous versions of the kernel work, i think something changed probably because there never used to be any driver :p
  <ali1234> you can blacklist alsa modules
  <oly> cool i will give that a try, i was not sure if alsa was a module or if it was a sound driver i needed to blacklist
  <diddledan__> so I managed to sleep through the entire day
  <bigcalm> Much rebooting later. Bluetooth continues to ignore being turned off. This is with both kernels
  <bigcalm> Wee, my keybord lights up :D
  <popey> bigcalm: dpkg -l *3.13.0-031300-generic*
  <popey> bigcalm: when you say bluetooth ignores being turned off.. you mean you turn it off and it stays on?
  <popey> or do you mean you turn it off, reboot, and its back on?
  <ali1234> oly could be either. alsa is a module and each driver is also a separate module.
  <ali1234> probably go for the driver if you know which one it is
  <oly> yeah still happened,
  <oly> not sure on the driver, its likely loading the wrong one
  <oly> as looks like theris still no driver file for this sound card
  <ali1234> check the system logs
  <oly> will report a bug i can see a kernel oops in the logs when i go back to the older kernel
  <bigcalm> popey: the later
  <popey> bigcalm: thats been the case for years
  <popey> add a cronjob to sudo rfkill blah to shut it down â»
  <ali1234> or disable in the bios
  <popey> bug 922375
  <popey> hmm
  <lubotu3> bug 922375 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth indicator will not stay turned off after reboot" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922375
  <ali1234> rfkill is supposed to save state and restore at the next boot, like alsa does with volume
  <popey> ah
  <ali1234> at least i think it is
  <ali1234> maybe the udev rule got broken recently, like the alsa one did
  <ali1234> bug 1268301
  <lubotu3> bug 1268301 in alsa-utils (Ubuntu) "udev alsa restore restore rules are broken" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268301
  <bigcalm> popey: funky
  <ali1234> or maybe it doesn't work anything like that, i dunno
  <ali1234> ah here we go: /var/lib/rfkill/saved-state
  <ali1234> and /etc/init/rfkill-store.conf and -restore.conf
  <ali1234> does not appear to use udev
  <oly> that sounds a bit like the issue i am hitting
  <ali1234> nah, you have an oops :)
  <ali1234> show oops pls
  <oly> um one sec need to setup ssh on the other maching
  <ali1234> the alsa udev thing doesn't get fixed by swapping kernels either, it's caused because the udev rules changed, and the way they are parsed is quite complex, so changes in an unrelated rule can affect other rules
  <oly> http://pastebin.com/3NqnYFKW
  <ali1234> ooh, that's your video driver
  <oly> actually thats for the working one lol
  <ali1234> definitely report that
  <oly> 3.12.0-7 that works fine, i actually have graphics
  <ali1234> probably already reported then
  <oly> whats best way to report, the docs are confusing is it ubunt-bug
  <oly> i was reading some of the docs and could not find an actual command that seemed relevant, they all seemed geared towards applications
  <ali1234> yeah, they are
  <ali1234> that bug should eventually end up on bugs.freedesktop.org anyway
  <ali1234> but you might want to test with the vanilla kernels
  <ali1234> i just searched and i don't see it already reported upstream
  <oly> what shoudl i type to report it to launchpad ?
  <ali1234> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67345
  <lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 67345 in DRM/Intel "[BayTrail-M] [drm:intel_pipe_config_compare] *ERROR* mismatch in clock (expected 146250, found 0)" [Normal,Verified: fixed]
  <ali1234> might already be fixed
  <oly> probably fixed in the kernel that does not boot :)
  <ali1234> probably, yes
  <oly> thanks for the help anyway ali1234, will try some things tomorrow
  <oly> at least i have touch screen and video,
  <oly> although anyone know if you can make onscreenkeyboard work with unity ?
  <oly> it seems to work for everything but the dash :p
  <oly> anyway thanks again night
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-24
  <ali1234> can you retweet a tweet @ someone who doesn't follow you?
  <popey> yes
  <popey> you can retweet anything so long as you can see it and the person doesn't have their stream private
  <ali1234> but when i click retweet it doesn't let me edit it... i'm too old for this stuff
  <ali1234> i'll just email them the link. lol
  <popey> hah
  <bobtuny> Anyone here?
  <ali1234> yes
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <knightwise> morning MooDoo
  <MooDoo> knightwise: hello :) it's friday :)
  <knightwise> I kneuw :)
  <knightwise> I'm having soundconverter have a crack at some of the flac files I found online
   * knightwise has a day off today 
  <knightwise> now I need to drag .epub files out of a recursive file directory structure into one folder
  <knightwise> still looking how to do that
  <knightwise> find -r *.epub /sourcedirs/ | mv /targetdir/
  <knightwise> probably not .. right ?
   * MooDoo shrugs...sorry
  <diddledan__> knightwise: find /path/to/epub/parent *.epub -exec mv '{}' /target/epub/dir \;
  <knightwise> hey diddledan__ :) thanx ! :)
  <knightwise> found it in the meantime :)
  <knightwise> I have to go through quite a bit of folders :) Been playing with Wget and some google "intitle" searches :)
  <mapps> morning
  <knightwise> hey mapps
  <MooDoo> morning morning
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: hence the 'find' which moves it for you
  <MartijnVdS> \o *
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning one and all :-D
  <knightwise> morning guys :)
  <mapps> so uh i was logged into my machine using ajaxterm through apache webserver on https:// had a problem with apache..did /etc/init.d/apachectl stop.. and uh oh why cant i do anything
  <mapps> d'oh i was using ajaxterm through the webserver:D
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Belly Laugh Day! :-D
  <Myrtti> morning
  <MartijnVdS> hey, new Java.
  <Myrtti> my trusty(!) virtual machine had gotten a booboo during the week I wasn't showing it TLC :-(
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: what happened?
  <Myrtti> no idea, it wouldn't boot
  <Myrtti> quicker to reinstall the whole thing and start over than to dig deeper
  <MartijnVdS> aww
  <Myrtti> I'm not experienced enough with the problems they have to waste time on problem solving
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: does it show any messages? would it be bugreport-worthy?
  <Myrtti> doubt it, it's more likely to be a PEBKAC than anything else
  <mapps> pebkac?
  <MartijnVdS> mapps: problem exists betweek keyboard and chaird. aka "user error"
  <mapps> ahh course
  <mapps> thx
  <diddledan__> PEBKAC tends to be the primary source of errors for me
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: get a bean bag instead
  <diddledan__> lol
  <diddledan__> I need a big ball
  <diddledan__> that way I'll improve my posture at the same time
  <knightwise> ls
  <knightwise> oops wrong window
  <diddledan__> knightwise: I agree
  <mapps> lol
  <mapps> treadmill desk is the future
  <mapps> :D
  <mapps> office chaire=silent killer!!
  <MartijnVdS> mapps: http://goo.gl/alp3eT
  <mapps> lol MartijnVdS
  <Myrtti> you mean working sitting crosslegged in a onesie on your bed isn't good?
  <Myrtti> damn.
  <diddledan__> Myrtti: onsesies ftw
  <diplo> Morning all
  <SuperMatt> I just went the longjohns route this morning
  <SuperMatt> so I'm nice and warm :D
  <DJones> Morning
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I got my wife a onesie for Xmas - she thinks it's great. It's purple with dots. Makes her look like a big baby :-)
  <mapps> doesnt everyone look like a big baby in them? They dont appeal to me at all:)
  <MartijnVdS> but they're nice and warm!
  <YaManicKill> Yeah, great for using in the winter, in the house.
  <YaManicKill> Never to be seen by other people :-P
  <directhex> nggggg
  <SuperMatt> I wouldn't be surprised if I saw people in their onesies popping down to the corner shop, or whatever
  <SuperMatt> because for some people laziness trumps decency
  <directhex> i've seen people in onesies in the town centre
  <directhex> also 25% packet loss wtf
  <popey> i saw someone in a onesie in the co-op recently
  <popey> she was buying chocolate
  <popey> pretty sure we knew what was going on there
  <TheOpenSourcerer> My missus won't go out in hers. But should think it's common in Banbury and Farnborough ;-)
  <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that article you retweeted mentions my employer (zaaksysteem.nl) :)
  <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
  <popey>  my missus won't wear hers
  <TheOpenSourcerer> https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/oss-use-dutch-town-lowers-it-cost-24-vs-peers
  <MartijnVdS> yeah, that one :)
  <popey> so sophie stole it, and it's massively too big for her
  <popey> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--BXYQ48p1IA/UtRU_1ScPiI/AAAAAAAAjO8/qC5Omxq3wGk/w677-h903-no/IMG_2690.JPG
  <popey> has to hitch it up
  <TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <bigcalm> Gosh, Sophie is getting tall
  <SuperMatt> I shall one day get a onsie
  <bigcalm> popey: the photo behind her head, there appears to be more people than your unit of 4?
  <SuperMatt> maybe on the way home tonight because it's payday
  <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: amazon
  <bigcalm> SuperMatt: Rackspace are paying you already?
  <foobarry> SuperMatt: i've seen people in their pyjamas in coop too
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: The Dude?
  <foobarry> and slippers. buying superkings for their toddlers
  <SuperMatt> bigcalm: yes, fortunately
  <SuperMatt> and my last job's pay came in too
  <SuperMatt> a little too much in fact
  <SuperMatt> they called me yesterday in a panic because they over paid me
  <popey> bigcalm: sister, her kids
  <bigcalm> Ah, okay
  <SuperMatt> they want me to send the money back, but haven't actually sent the bacs details \o/
  <foobarry> ubuntu one app stopped uploading pictures :S
  <SuperMatt> eek
   * Laney snuggles directhex 
  <diddledan__> Laney: stop that canoodling - you're making us jealous :-p
  <Laney> there's room in this spoon for three
  <Laney> NO MORE THOUGH
   * knightwise thinks MartijnVdS deserves a hugg too because now my ubuntu machine runs like a charm :) 
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: you weren't in Prague at the UDS were you? :)
  <Laney> no
  <knightwise> anyone of you guys coming to fossdem ?
  <Laney> the dholbach hug?
  <Laney> yes
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: yeah that one :)
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: maybe
  <knightwise> same here. If there are gonna be some peeps around that I know I might go too
  <knightwise> or i'll just go do do some interviews for HPR or the Knightwise.com podcast
  <Laney> my first UDS was the one in "Brussels"
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: was there a room named that?
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: where was that?
  <Laney> not sure, a magical coach took us there
  <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: ah, no, the real city of brussels. Didn't go there
  <Laney> got to see sabdfl walking around in his towel & slippers
  <Laney> you had to cross the lobby to get to the gym & sauna from the rooms
  <Laney> weird
  <MartijnVdS> the photo is the same as the one on the UDS-L page
  <MartijnVdS> UDS-Jaunty was my last :|
  <Laney> you're old skool
  <popey>   PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
  <popey>  1710 root      20   0 4389528 3.642g 389388 S  21.5 23.4 187:02.22 Xorg
  <popey> wheeee
  <popey> was 2.3 G yesterday
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: my first was "The Mataro Sessions", https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MataroConference
  <Laney> huh
  <Laney> hadn't heard of that one
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: the very first one, just after 4.10 came out
  <Laney> did you work for canonical?
  <Laney> back in those idealistic days of yore
  <Laney> shipping the "best GNOME desktop"
  <MartijnVdS> No, I didn't.. just a community member :)
  <popey> ah old names in the changelog for that wiki page
  <Laney> that sladen
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=31717518@N02&q=mataro
  <MartijnVdS> recognise ALL the people! 8-)
  <MartijnVdS> (and ancient launchpad)
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
  <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
  <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
  <brobostigon> no more workfare/mwa untill wednesday now, makes me happy, my back and hip hurt.
  <bigcalm> davmor2: battery notification is displayed once I resume from a suspend. But not from a cold boot.
  <foobarry>       20   0  282m 116m  12m S    1  1.5 232:23.14 Xorg
  <foobarry>  up 51 days, 17:27,
  <diddledan__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25840502
  <MartijnVdS> FASTESTEST EVAR
  <MartijnVdS> In all of space and time!
  <diddledan__> :-)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: file a bug :)
  <YaManicKill> "It allows them to increase their capacity without having to spend much more money."
  <YaManicKill> Bet we'll see increase in prices though...
  <MartijnVdS> YaManicKill: also, transceivers aren't cheap
  <MartijnVdS> for fibre
  <YaManicKill> Yeah
  <diddledan__> I've got a gigabit-capable sfp port on my router - I want BT to install FTTP so that I can get superspeed
  <diddledan__> 40 Mbps just doesn't cut it
  <MartijnVdS> I have a gigabit media converter in my house (and fibre going into it)
  <MartijnVdS> but the other end is only 100mbit :(
  <MartijnVdS> hance I only have 100/100 at home
  <MartijnVdS> hence8
  <MartijnVdS> *
  <YaManicKill> I just want decent speed wifi. Need to save up my pennies and get a decent router. I'm on 76Mb/s internet, but with the router that they provided me with, I'm getting max of 4MB/s
  <MartijnVdS> wifi is never as fast as advertised
   * popey hands YaManicKill an ethernet cable
  <YaManicKill> popey: Oh, where do I plug that into my phone?
  <popey> android phone?
  <YaManicKill> MartijnVdS: I know, but 4Mb/s is crap
  <YaManicKill> popey: of course
  <diddledan__> do any androids support usb-ethernet adapters?
  <popey> yeah, usb ethernet â»
  <popey> apple ones are best ã
  <YaManicKill> Oh for crying out loud.
  <popey> why is your wifi so slow?
  <YaManicKill> What about my tablet? It doesn't support otg
  <popey> bummer
  <YaManicKill> popey: because it's a crappy router that plusnet gave me.
  <popey> ah, shame
  <diddledan__> plusnet -_-
  <diddledan__> cheap as chips
  <popey> i had the same with my vm box so bought a netgear and slapped dd-wrt on it
  <diddledan__> but not as tasty
  <YaManicKill> Aye, I'm just trying to prioritise money just now. Just bought a house, you see :-P
  <YaManicKill> s/bought a house/about to buy a house/
  <MartijnVdS> sounds like the best time to invest in a proper router ;)
  <YaManicKill> Yep, but just need to convince the wife we need a proper decent one.
  <YaManicKill> s/proper decent/wifi ac/
  <bigcalm> Constantly getting "Error: bad minute" from crontab. Are there rules for how comments should be constructed?
  <popey> # this is a comment
  <MartijnVdS> make sure # is at the start of the line
  <bigcalm> Yep, that's the case
  <MartijnVdS> bad minute could indicate someone used a minute > 59
  <bigcalm> I replaced all of the blank lines with # # and now it works
  <YaManicKill> ha
  <bigcalm> Since when does crontab not like blank lines?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then they weren't really blank. Did they contain spaces?
  <foobarry> when there's special characters
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also.. DOS line endings maybe? :)
  <bigcalm> Ahhhh, the line endings could be the issue!
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so.. do you want authorization to hurt the author? :)
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: chance would be a fine thing
  <bigcalm> ^M everywhere
  <MartijnVdS> who invented those horrible things anyway
  <davmor2> bigcalm: I never add blank lines to crontab.  I just type in the comment and then the command next line is the next comment.
  <bigcalm> Taken from a website somewhere: Crontab delimits jobs with line breaks (newlines). Each job occupies one line. Therefore, if crontab sees anything other than an integer in the first column of a line, it throws the âbad minuteâ error, since the minute argument is the first one crontab encounters.
  <Dave2> well that's wrong
  <Dave2> you can have comments in cron
  <foobarry> i remember getting emails from crontab in the past
  <bigcalm> Comments are ignored
  <foobarry> "there are blank lines in your corontab"
  <Dave2> Yes. But they are newlines which don't start with integers.
  <MartijnVdS> the cron I know can handle that fine
  <bigcalm> Would be nice if crontab would ignore blank lines as well
  <YaManicKill> Easy fix though... just have a blank comment line
  <YaManicKill> #
  <YaManicKill> Sorted :-)
  <bigcalm> This is the default cron in 12.04
  <MartijnVdS> Or a long comment line: 0 * * * * /bin/true
  <bigcalm> YaManicKill: just done that, looks horrible
  <YaManicKill> bigcalm: better than nothing
  <bigcalm> True
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: how does a default 12.04 crontab end up with dos line endings
  <bigcalm> I know, the deployment script can remove blank lines from the file before it copies to the destination
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: line endings are no longer the issue
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Blank lines in crontab are fine in Ubuntu's cron
  <MartijnVdS> you're aware /etc/cron.d/* crontabs use a different format?
  <MartijnVdS> with the username to run as between the time and the command
  <MartijnVdS> man 5 crontab, too
  <MartijnVdS> that manual claims:
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes
  <MartijnVdS>        Blank lines and leading spaces and tabs are ignored.  Lines whose first
  <MartijnVdS>        non-space  character  is a hash-sign (#) are comments, and are ignored.
  <bigcalm> Yep, it's the line endings then. This is nuts
  <bigcalm> My IDE should be saving everything with \n
  <Dave2> The line ending, on a blank line, is also the line beginning.</zen>
  <MartijnVdS> Dave2: ^$
  <foobarry> 674234368 bytes (674 MB) copied, 329.015 s, 2.0 MB/s
  <foobarry> copying to a usb stick..2MB/s :-|
  <arsen> anyone have any recommended dedicated server providers? not too fussed where it is, currently using a ~Â£25/mo OVH box but its a bit tired :(
  <foobarry> how can i boot a mac mini from usb if the windows key isn't recognised on the keyboard?
  <foobarry> answer:burn a cd
  <bigcalm> Is there a cli util to convert line endings to \n for a given file/files?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "fromdos"
  <MartijnVdS> you can also use sed but that takes work to figure out :)
  <bigcalm> Doesn't appear to be installed by default, but okay
  <MartijnVdS> sudo apt-get install tofrodos
  <bigcalm> Ta
  <foobarry> to frodos!
  <foobarry> isn't that what the hobbits say?
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: tofrodos for breakfast
  <bigcalm> Greedy
   * popey considers lunch
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: as in "I'll have two frodos for breakfast"
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: that's just gluttony
  <MartijnVdS> davmor2: ok, maybe I'll save one for second breakfast then
  <davmor2> MartijnVdS: haha
  <foobarry> hmm booting linux on a mac seems overly complex
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: they're made to run macos after all
  <foobarry> how dare they
  <popey> http://comparemyradio.com/compare/BBC_Radio_2/BBC_Radio_1
  <popey> neat
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Why can't I compare Radio 4 ;-)
  <MartijnVdS> why can't I compare Dutch radio stations ;)
  <popey> hehe, just booted a viglen mpc-l, its running lucid
  <popey> anyone want to take a guess when it was last booted? (it's fscking now) - will check the log when it's done
  <MartijnVdS> 2011-04-23
  <TheOpenSourcerer> 24/01/2010
  <popey> 70%
  <davmor2> popey: 2011-01-28
  <davmor2> popey: that would give you a month or two before you got bored :)
  <popey> still says 70% and no disk activity â¨
  <DJones> Have MS actually bought Nokia's mobile phone business, just a bit confused as to why Nokia would bring out an Android phone (even if it is supposed to be skinned to look like Windows mobile) if they're owned my MS
  <diddledan__> DJones: maybe they had that on the drawing board already before MS bought them
  <DJones> diddledan__: Yeah, thats what I'm guessing/reading
  <foobarry> Myrtti is our resident expert on these things
  <Myrtti> huh
  <Myrtti> what
  <Myrtti> where
  <foobarry> nokia stuffs
  <Myrtti> Nokia wasn't sold
   * foobarry is dipping his BLT sandwich into carrot and coriander soup..yum
  <Myrtti> and Nokia isn't owned by MS
  <MartijnVdS> yet
  <diddledan__> Myrtti: afaik the phone business was
  <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: MS has no reason to buy the rest of the company
  <Myrtti> and it's doubtful it would be sold
  <DJones> diddledan__: As I read it, the deal hasn't been completed yet for the phone business yet
  <diddledan__> Myrtti: "nokia" isn't allowed to operate in a competitive field for 2 years last I heard of the "deal"
  <popey> 71%!
  <Myrtti> yes, but it's also probable that the Android development started before the purchase plans were published
  <Myrtti> so the fact they've done something like that isn't surprising at all
  <diddledan__> indeed, that would be my guess
  <Myrtti> Following the sale, Nokia will focus on three core business units; its Here mapping service (which Microsoft will license for four years under the deal), its infrastructure division Nokia Solutions and Networks (NSN), and on developing and licensing its "advanced technologies".
  <Myrtti> so whatever that R&D on 'advanced technologies' is...
  <MartijnVdS> nanoprobes
  <foobarry> bacon
  <diddledan__> nano bacon?
  <brobostigon> robo bacon?
  <diddledan__> that's end of the world tech that
  <davmor2> guys you need maxo bacon not nano you'd hardly taste it else :D
  <diddledan__> speaking of robots. there's a straight-to-dvd movie I wanna watch - it's got both robots AND zombies!
  <diddledan__> can't remember the title tho
  <diddledan__> here 'tis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XMsC1KiRaQ
  <popey> 72% - man this is taking ages
  <MartijnVdS> popey: still fscking?
  <popey> ya
  <popey> disk blink very sporadically
  <bigcalm> How much of the HDD did you use in it?
  <bigcalm> I still have 2 doing nothing. No idea what to do with them
  <bigcalm> Anybody want 2 door stops?
  <popey> i think it was 80G
  <popey> I'm giving mine to @andysc because his died
  <DJones> bigcalm: If a relative was still alive, I'd tell her to ask you for a door stop, she used to use a 2" WW2 shell as a door stop
  <popey> forgot how quiet these are
  <bigcalm> No fan iirc
  <bigcalm> But a really REALLY bright blue LED on front
  <bigcalm> Which lights up a whole room, stopping one from sleeping. Tape to the rescue
  <MartijnVdS> solder and a regular diode :)
  <MartijnVdS> I'm thinking of getting a JBC362
  <MartijnVdS> fanless, dual gigabit ethernet
  <MartijnVdS> GMA500 graphics though.. but I'm not going to use that anyway
  <popey> 74!
  <popey> yeah, that LED is a bit bright
  <MartijnVdS> popey: wow, it's getting faster
  <davmor2> popey: isn't the first 50% finding out is there is issue and the final 50% fixing them :)
  <popey> 75
  <JGJones> popey - is it your btrfs partition?
  <popey> no
  <popey> a viglen
  <davmor2> JGJones: no on lucid :)#
  <JGJones> ah. Should get a Grannyâ¢ to do it. They're very patient. (Was told by a friend upgrading a PC for his gran recently. 256MB. And she was using Vista. No it's not slow for her).
  <MartijnVdS> popey: has it hit 80% yet?
  <popey> 77
  <MartijnVdS> what's it *doing*
  <popey> well indeed
  <popey> i just see a plymouth(?) screen and a checking thing
  <SuperMatt> wooo, dkim set up on my server
  <Laney> OH GOD NOT THE ARCHERS
  <czajkowski> someone put me out of my misery
  <czajkowski> can you alphabetical sort stuff on lo or google docs
  <czajkowski> or is it staring me in the face
  <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: yes
  <czajkowski> yes it's starting at me where......
  <TheOpenSourcerer> What, exactly, do you want to sort?
  <czajkowski> a list of cities
  <czajkowski> *cities
  <TheOpenSourcerer> In a spreadsheet?
  <czajkowski> nope in a plai document
  <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: sort list_of_cities.txt
  <czajkowski> I was going to use a spreadsheet but if I copy that into the document it copies the table and I don't need the table
  <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: sort list_of_cities.txt > sorted_list_of_cities.txt (don't use the same filename twice!)
  <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: can't you shift+paste ("Paste Special" -> text only)
  <czajkowski> hmmmm
  <czajkowski> that may work
  <czajkowski> seems to be a fairly simple thing to want to do in a document but missing from LO and Google docs
  <bashrc> add it as a feature request
  <TheOpenSourcerer> You can do this in spreadsheet - not sure about in a writer or doc...
  <MartijnVdS> also, it would work if you used LaTeX source and vim ;)
  <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: bah
  <czajkowski> bashrc: indeed
  <TheOpenSourcerer> why not just C&P into something that you can sort then C&P back?
  <popey> thats what I'd do
  <czajkowski> true I guess
  <czajkowski> just baffling that it's missing
  <popey> 80
  <TheOpenSourcerer> 65
  <SuperMatt> 12
  <MartijnVdS> 42
  <SuperMatt> Mornington Crescent
  <davmor2> czajkowski: don't forget that documents are dumb.  The cleverness comes from what you do with it.  Like running sort etc
  <TheOpenSourcerer> gah!
  <TheOpenSourcerer> 8
  <TheOpenSourcerer> Mornington Crescent!
  <MartijnVdS> that's numberwang!
  <SuperMatt> too slow man
  <SuperMatt> I've already won
  <TheOpenSourcerer> I had it ready
  <TheOpenSourcerer> but got sidetracked by a though about Ajax.
  <TheOpenSourcerer> s/thought
  <czajkowski> right sorted it
  <czajkowski> into spreadsheet and sort it
  <czajkowski> thanks folks
  <SuperMatt> huzzah!
  <popey> 82 â¹
  <czajkowski> what game are we playing
  <czajkowski> 4 - the hours left in todays work day :)
  <popey> percentage fscked of my viglen I booted up after an unknown period of time
  <foobarry> why so slow?
  <foobarry> i had sparc 10's fsck quicker than that
  <popey> no idea
  <popey> i cant tell what it's doing
  <popey> it's an 80GB HDD with an AMD Geode CPU and not much RAM
  <diddledan__> I like how when you say "it's fscking the disc" it could conceivably be either good OR bad
  <diddledan__> ARGH MY DISC IS FSCKED!
  <diddledan__> or dammit it fscked my disc last night!
  <popey> 84
  <SuperMatt> I think it'll be just about done by dinner time
  <diddledan__> lol
  <brobostigon> https://github.com/keelanc/bcsexagesimal/blob/master/src/bcsexagesimal.c now this i like.
  <foobarry> operation "close chrome tabs" is in effect
  <diplo> Sorry, the program "run" closed unexpectedly
  <diplo> :)
  <foobarry> diplo: #windows?
  <diplo> Nope 13.10
  <diddledan__> "run"?
  <diddledan__> that's a very generic program name
  <foobarry> a.out ?
  <diddledan__> lol
  <diplo> heh, why I posted it, was Hotot crashed
  <foobarry> i remember hotot
  <foobarry> used to use it years ago
  <diplo> This PC stays on 24/5 - But after 2 days or so Hotot crashes with that
  <diplo> Not really an inconvenience but maybe worth bug reporting it I guess
  <popey> 86!
  <MartijnVdS> popey: maybe it'll get to 100% before the weekend!
  <Myrtti> suction cups are stupid
  <Myrtti> I've got an obsession on sticking them on the skin
  <Dave2> That's one way to interpret that
  <Dave2> Although now I bet the next time I see a suction cup I'm going to try that. (I probably have too much hair for one to stick though.)
  <MartijnVdS> Dave2: try when you've just shaved
  <Myrtti> don't put it on your forehead for prolonged periods.
  <Myrtti> nuff said
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: why?
  <Myrtti> don't put it anywhere visible for prolonged periods
  <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: because suction cups suc
  <Myrtti> suck
  <Dave2> I'd hope they do
  <Dave2> MartijnVdS: now that's an idea.
  <Myrtti> if you didn't get the wisdom behind 'suction cups suck' and 'don't put them anywhere visible on your skin for prolonged periods', don't worry, it'll appear to you in about half an hour
  <Myrtti> I'm obviously *not* speaking from experience
  <Dave2> Now you're just making me want to try even more.
  <JGJones> Is there a package for that?
  <popey> 90
  <JGJones> What time did you start popey?
  <popey> ~12:30
   * DJones predicts a power cut at popey's in about an hour
  <popey> hah
  <JGJones> Storms expected tonight. High possibility of power cuts.
  <JGJones> Oh nothing to worry about, it's not as if we have anything we're waiting for.
  <foobarry> waiting 2 weeks for 2 repair man to arrive
  <popey> oh ffs
  <popey> laptop froze, rebooted
  <popey> now x wont start
  <popey> [    13.922] (EE) Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.
  <popey> what the hell
  <popey> restarted lightdm
  <popey> 91
  <davmor2> popey: man that is still going
  <popey> ya
  <popey> disk is probably utterly broken
  <popey> and when it finally boots there'll be like a bazillion broken sectors
  <bigcalm> popey: want a replacement? ;)
  <popey> hah
  <bigcalm> Surprised but pleased that the Revo is still working well as my parents' server
  <popey> yeah, my revo is chugging along
  <diddledan__> first generation atoms those if memory serves?
  <popey> ya
  <popey> atom + nvidia
  <diddledan__> the nvidia chip was actually pretty awesome
  <popey> yeah
  <popey> with vdpau it was
  <diddledan__> made it a sweet media-centre with vdpau
  <brobostigon> any suggestions for a more detailed android battery usage meters, than the standard one. please.
  <popey> brobostigon: battery widget
  <brobostigon> thank you popey
  <popey> \o/ fsck done!
  <brobostigon> :)
  <bigcalm> Do I order this or keep looking? http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-SG108-8-Port-Gigabit-Ethernet/dp/B00A121WN6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=LXT6MFP2WUWA&coliid=I3CSVGNLRUBWZ4
  <diddledan__> popey: does it still work?
  <popey> kinda
  <diddledan__> bigcalm: switches got cheap
  <bigcalm> diddledan__: they did
  <popey> looks okay
  <diddledan__> bigcalm: I remember buying a huge-ass 10Mbps HUB (NOT switch) for just shy of a ton back in the 90s
  <bigcalm> I want this though: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005UGRIIG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d3_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=07N8057S8YWC7WBNRSXB&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294
  <diddledan__> yeah, the netgear prosafe range are pretty solid
  <bigcalm> popey: want to buy back this WNDR3700? ;)
  <popey> hah
  <popey> what's wrong with it?
  <popey> also, how much did you give me for it?
  <diddledan__> not enough ports :-p
  <popey> (I may)
  <diddledan__> popey: does he make a loss on it, break even or get a small profit (should you buy it back)?
  <diddledan__> :-p
  <bigcalm> popey: nothing wrong with it except that I need more than the 4 ethernet ports it provides.
  <bigcalm> popey: Â£50
  <popey> ahhh
  <bigcalm> It might make me consider the Netgear Wireless-N 8 Port Gigabit VPN Firewall
  <bigcalm> I still have this WNDR3800 I bricked. Never got around to trying to fix it
  <bigcalm> Anybody heard of / used pcmshop.com ?   http://www.pcmshop.info/Netgear-8-Port-ProSafe-Wireless-N-Gigabit-VPN-Firewall-FVS318N-100NAS-A5485530
  <ali1234> i'll give you Â£20 for the WNDR3800. or i'll fix it for Â£20.
  <bigcalm> There's no advantage of doing so (for me) as it's the same number of ports
  <bigcalm> I have a usb ttl device, just need to get around to plugging it in
  <bigcalm> I wonder if the netgear switch I'm looking at has the NSA loving going on
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: dumb switch or smart
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: the one with wifi, so smart
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then maybe
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but if it's firewalled so it can't talk to the outside AND nothing from the outside can talk to it.. how is it going to talk to them?
  <bigcalm> ...
  <bigcalm> I want to buy this as it'll mean that I don't need an extra mains socket in use
  <bigcalm> I like things to be neat
  <bigcalm> popey: or was is Â£70. One of those two numbers anyway :)
  <DJones> bigcalm: Has your laptop arrived yet?
  <DJones> Missed the last 48 hours on IRC due to a funeral
  <bigcalm> DJones: sorry man :(
  <bigcalm> DJones: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/426375609325858816/photo/1
  <bigcalm> DJones: very nice so far. Had a problem with 14.04 where the laptop would power back on after being told to shut down. But that issue appears to have gone away after trying the upstream kernel and then going back to the ubuntu one - most odd
  <bigcalm> DJones: the keys will take some getting used to. They remind me of the keys on a public internet phone
  <bigcalm> DJones: the mouse pad is annoying as the left and right mouse buttons are also track pad
  <ali1234> MartijnVdS: what they do is intercept the package after it leaves the seller and before it gets to you. they put in a small circuit board which is about 1cmx1cm, and that contains a radio that copies all ethernet packets. they can then monitor you from up to 8 miles away.
  <bigcalm> DJones: the touch screen is just a gimmick (to me) as Ubuntu isn't really set up for touch yet
  <DJones> bigcalm: Interesting, at least it will install Ubuntu without issues from the sound of things
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah wait that one. Just open the case yourself first :)
  <DJones> bigcalm: But looks nice
  <bigcalm> DJones: yes. As long as the install media isn't corrupted (as mine was 1st time)
  <ali1234> yeah the thing is that that small circuit is built into the ethernet connector
  <ali1234> so you won't see it if you just open the case
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: also, 8 miles? I can't even get wifi over 100m
  <ali1234> you have to xray the circuit board
  <ali1234> it might have been 8km. probably not though, US hates metric
  <DJones> bigcalm: Its tempting......................................
  <bigcalm> DJones: it's heavy - cast AU. Also getting used to it
  <DJones> bigcalm: How is it with Minecraft
  <bigcalm> DJones: yet to try that! Heh
  <DJones> Thats the killer app...
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: cast Al I hope. Au is a bit expensive to make laptops out ofg
  <bigcalm> Erm, yes, Al :D
  <DJones> Cast Gold?
  <MartijnVdS> DJones: you don't have a gold laptop?
  <bigcalm> DJones: the battery is under the back panel that has to be unscrewed to access. So don't expect a 3rd party enhancement any time soon
  <bigcalm> DJones: I've yet to see what the battery performance is like yet. Only been setting things up so far
  <DJones> bigcalm: Cheers, will give it a week then will poke your brain
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: my XPS-12 can go for about 6 hours
  <bigcalm> DJones: this is the output of lspci http://paste.ubuntu.com/6803821/ - Bloody optimus :S
  <DJones> Heh, thought that might be an issue
  <bigcalm> DJones: don't leave it too long, Dell are doing free shipping at the moment
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: this isn't an XPS and it's a larger screen. I have high hopes though :)
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it is haswell though, right?
  <DJones> bigcalm: ...points at work credit credit card...
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes
  <bigcalm> DJones: if you make it a work purchase, I'm sure you could get it cheaper than the 799 I paid
  <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: what's haswell?
  <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: your laptop
  <MartijnVdS> CPU
  <bigcalm> Ah, okay
  <DJones> bigcalm: Probably not
  <bigcalm> DJones: work bought me my Alienware X51 - much cheaper than doing so as a consumer as the sales reps all want the commission so can drop the price
  <DJones> bigcalm: Don't think there will be much difference
  <bigcalm> I'll check Minecraft in a bit ;)
  <davmor2> bigcalm: sometimes I wonder if you bother to read the things you paste what haswell ;)
  <mapps> phw my nexus7 charged
  <mapps> thought it was broked:D wouldnt turn on and didnt show the battery icon when i plugged it in
  <mapps> but left it for hours and its now charged and powered up
  <diddledan__> mapps: running ubuntu?
  <mapps> nope
  <mapps> not tried that yet
  <mapps> perhapos i should
  <bigcalm> davmor2: I really don't know what haswell is though :)
  <diddledan__> I've read that in the past some people have had issues similar to that when running ubuntu on there where their device will drain down so completely that it won't charge (sometimes using a specific model of charger has overcome the problem)
   * bigcalm doesn't know about hardware
   * bigcalm goes to eat food instead
  <davmor2> bigcalm: the line from your lspci paste actually gives a pretty good description hence saying what I said :P
  <mapps> diddledan__,  i remember reading that same happens with nexus7 running droid ..if its drains completely it takes hours to charge..but there was also the problem where it wouldnt charge at all sometimes..my first n7 i had to take back to argos
  <mapps> it ran down and then no matter what i did couldnbt get ut to charge up
  <MartijnVdS> wow. g+ is flaky atm
  <diddledan__> I guess when it completely runs out of juice the hardware can't rebootstrap enough to get the charging software to put the device into a charging state until after it's got enough charge to be able to run the software (catch 22)
  <diddledan__> software/firmware
  <mapps> yea
  <mapps> i never used g+
  <mapps> :D
  <diddledan__> I forget to use g+
  <davmor2> diddledan__: I haven't had that issue
  <diddledan__> also most the folk I know apart from you lot aren't on there
  <diddledan__> one major annoyance I have with g+ is that it doesn't ajax new content until you click the "new" button
  <davmor2> diddledan__: are you saying you know people outside of us?  :P
  <diddledan__> davmor2: good point
  <diddledan__> so when does google become wayland corp and own the entire planet?
  <mapps> ya
  <mapps> free taxis
  <mapps> whatever next
  <davmor2> diddledan__: no Intel become wayland.  Google become skynet
  <mapps> what a nuisance..lost my passport between manchester airport and home;/
  <diddledan__> ergh, mapps that sucks
  <mapps> gotta get a replacement lost/stolen fill in a new form..a lost form 2 new photos AND get it all countersigned
  <diddledan__> and, free taxis? shuddup and take my money!
  <mapps> right pain if it was a rep[lacement dont need countersign but as its lost i do..luckily my friends wifes a teacher
  <diddledan__> oh. no money involved.
  <mapps> but it also says 'may have to come for an interview to prove your identity' lol shouldnt they be more worred about the people they dont know are here and illegals on fake passports..than me a genuine brit
  <mapps> thinking of going away in March too so must get it sorted
  <mapps> :)
  <DJones> mapps: How do they know you're a genuine BRIT though, as against somebody who's looked at a gravestone for a random DOB
  <mapps> hm
  <mapps> well
  <mapps> it asks my mum/dads dob place of birty etc too
  <DJones> Yeah, but .... google.... or more specialised family history websites
  <diddledan__> they should implant a chip at birth and then you can just wave your foot over a head-height scanner
  <MartijnVdS> "Sorry, you can't ride this roller coaster"
  <DJones> diddledan__: Only after the replacement hips
  <DJones> diddledan__: You have a lot of tails
  <diddledan__> either that or minority-report style retina scanners everywhere
  <shauno> I'd totally be in favour of the implant idea, if we could actually trust anyone to compartmentalize data cleanly
  <diddledan__> shauno: gchq are being fasttracked through the court of human rights
  <diddledan__> technically it's a challenge to gchq that's being fasttracked**
  <diddledan__> I guess the court things something might be amiss?
  <mapps> about what?
  <mapps> and yes retina scanners/chips :D do away with passports
  <mapps> heh
  <shauno> just saying I like the idea but not the side effects.  I like the idea of having scanners in door handles so your front door works magically; in laptops so it only works for the right users, etc
  <shauno> but my landlord, employer, border control, boots don't all need access to the same info.  and we've wound up in a strange place where they all would
  <DJones> shauno: as long as you don't work for google/ms/spammer/government/nsa etc I'm sure the info wouldn't be available :)
  <shauno> I dunno.  tesco probably know more about me than the state.  phillips probably have better records of when I'm home or not than I do.  it's pretty much everywhere now
  <Myrtti> stupid Google
  <mapps> that was strange
  <mapps> https://94.193.78.219/testing/ is my dir containing cgiirc on my server and it was saying server error..perhaps downtime or exceeded capacity..restarted apache and it worked fine hm
  <shauno> hah, I just noticed valve released their own version of 'ye olde steamos'.  very cool  (yes, I'm a bit late)
  <daftykins> :D
  <directhex> yeah, but theirs doesn't support dmraid
  <directhex> i do a video of that, and i get a queue out the door of people offering me "services" as thanks
  <shauno> yeah, I noticed your comparison on the forum
  <diddledan__> "services"?
  <diddledan__> as in personal or bona fide?
  <MartijnVdS> pro bono?
  <mapps> what would it be useful for shauno
  <MartijnVdS>  oh wow.. look what I just found: http://i.imgur.com/vy9q7tf.jpg
  <diddledan__> which version of the kernel was that?
  <MartijnVdS> let me check
  <diddledan__> 2.4 or earlier? :-p
  <MartijnVdS> it has http://www.toms.net/rb/ on it
  <diddledan__> 16MB of RAMS!
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: "Slink and a half with a 2.2.13 kernel"
  <shauno> heh, I still have the old-style fsf membership 'card' in the same format
  <diddledan__> I'd like to see you try to put it into a slot-load dvd drive :-p
  <diddledan__> aka every mac since 2005
  <MartijnVdS> all files are from 1999-2000
  <diddledan__> nice
  <MartijnVdS> january 2000
  <shauno> heh, my mac doesn't have a dvd drive :)  but the one ones are usb
  <diddledan__> shauno: yeah, but that's because you broke it
  <shauno> nah it still works.  it's in a drawer somewhere, I think
  <diddledan__> my mac has a usb dvd drive because it didn't come with one
  <MartijnVdS> I'm going to boot it in a vm
  <MartijnVdS> or not.. I'm going to make an iso anyway
  <diddledan__> it'll fly even in qemu's emulation mode (as opposed to hardwared virtualisation - kvm or kqemu e.g.)
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: oh probably :)
  <shauno> I appear to have broken my fireplace.  I didn't know that was possible :/
  <daftykins> as in an electric/gas fire unit?
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: chimney fire?
  <diddledan__> shauno: you're pretty good at breaking things
  <shauno> nah, the grate snapped
  <shauno> not gas/electric, fireplace = a hole in the wall you burn stuff in
  <daftykins> fair enough
  <diddledan__> like photos of the ex?
  <daftykins> the term is often misused
  <diddledan__> or better - like voodoo dolls of the ex?
  <daftykins> nearly time for your weekend sleeping pills diddledan! :D
  <diddledan__> :-p
  <MartijnVdS> http://tomorrowcorporation.com/littleinferno (available on steam on linux)
  <Azelphur> hey MartijnVdS a while back we were working on getting my IPv6 going, and my ISP needed to give me some details and activate me
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and, did they? :)
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: they did indeed, here's the info they gave me http://pastebin.com/ZpaHmQWa
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ah so it's a manual job :)
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <diddledan__> google+ being down has made the news: http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/gmail-goes-down-across-the-world/
  <Azelphur> so on openwrt, I assume I'm editing my wan6 interface
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can you paste your /etc/config/network as well?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (you can blank out any passwords)
  <diddledan__> Azelphur: which isp are you using?
  <diddledan__> (sheer curiosity here)
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/i0f8JYnj
  <Azelphur> diddledan__: enta.net
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://pastebin.com/EpSxJLgu -- I've modified it a bit :)
  <Azelphur> oO
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: - ip6assign on interface lan is now 64, so autoconfigure will actually work
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: - wan6 is now static/manually configured
  <Azelphur> so just drop that config in, and then networking restart?
  <MartijnVdS> I suppose
  <diddledan__> except ipv4 won't work then
  <diddledan__> oh wait
  <diddledan__> ignore me
  <diddledan__> ip4 is configged by pppoe
  <MartijnVdS> /ignore diddledan__
  <diddledan__> /nick diddledan_
   * MartijnVdS hopes Azelphur didn't drop off the net
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nah, I'm back
  <Azelphur> it's actually looking a little hopeful
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-24-211126_1702x915_scrot.png
  <Azelphur> but http://test-ipv6.com/ says I don't have IPv6 :(
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: let me try :)
  <Azelphur> also for some reason my DNS stopped working
  <Azelphur> swapped from my ISPs DNS to google DNS to resolve that, though
  <shauno> curious, if you're assigning it to wan6, why does wan have a v6 address and wan6 doesn't?
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: openwrt handles interface aliases strangely
  <shauno> just curious.  it makes it a bit strange trying to compare the config to the apparent output
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: on the device, can you do "route  -n -A inet6"
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and pastebin it
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: on router or PC?
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: on the router
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=u6b66KzV
  <diddledan__> your default ::1 route looks odd
  <MartijnVdS> everything to :: seems odd
  <diddledan__> oh wait
  <diddledan__> that's loopback
  <diddledan__> ignore me again
  <Azelphur> xD
  <diddledan__> ::/0 is default route
  <diddledan__> which you don't have one of
  <diddledan__> so your router doesn't know where to send ip6 packets that need to leave your network
  <MartijnVdS> but that's what ip6gw should be for
  <MartijnVdS> probably best to ask on an OpenWRT-specific channel
  <diddledan__> ip6gw is to a network not a single ip - it should have a :2 at the end?
  <ujjain1> I am going to move to London.
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: nah, his ISP gave him an entire /64 for a single PTP link between router and ISP
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: so I'm guessing :0 and :1 are used for that
  <MartijnVdS> but I have no idea..
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: righto I'll move to #openwrt, could you jump in and perhaps dumb down things they say xD
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: just say you got those things from your ISP <pastebin here>, and this is your config now <pastebin here>, and if they have pointers to help make it work
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: because routes don't seem to be getting set correctly :)
  <Azelphur> ok
  <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can you paste the output of "ifconfig -a" as well?
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/hADGLDBr
  <MartijnVdS> noything weird that I can see, but ask  openwrt :)
  <ujjain1> MartijnVdS, do you live in the UK?
  <MartijnVdS> ujjain1: no
  <ujjain1> ah ok, Holland then.
  <diddledan__> holland is the next logical location after the uk?
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: of course!
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: for everything!
  <diddledan__> MartijnVdS: except bandwidth where the roles are reversed - you've pretty much got the whole internet thing sewn up over there
  <MartijnVdS> diddledan__: yup :)
  <ujjain1> diddledan__, he has a Dutch name.
  <diddledan__> ujjain1: I ignore the j and just pronounce it Martin
  <ujjain1> well, I am going to move to London from the Netherlands and I am scared, financially etc., but I feel I am being to anxious anyway.
  <ujjain1> haha yeah,
  <ujjain1> I recently saw a map of EuropeÂ´s funniest accents in English, I laughed when I saw #1 French, I was a bit sad when I saw #2 Dutch.
  <diddledan__> they're funnier than scottish or scouse??
  <diddledan__> www.worldenergy is down - I can't get in via ssh and I don't have any other access details to get into the machine to see why mysql isn't working
  <diddledan__> .org*
  <diddledan__> :-(
  <diddledan__> I guess it's going to remain down till after the weekend
  <shauno> I will admit, the size of subnets still boggles my mind.  "I can has ipv6?"  "sure kid, have a /56" takes some getting used to
  <shauno> I have two /48's, one on each router.  that makes my head hurt
  <diddledan__> shauno: that's a LOT of address space (2x/48)
  <shauno> indeed
  <shauno> it's just funny the way it works out.  get a /48, nice and easy.  try to point one /56 to one endopint and another /56 to another .. it's easier for them to just dole out another /48
  <diddledan__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25860454
  <shauno> now that's a 10-minute class you'll remember
  <shauno> I was reading about the 'rosetta' mission recently.  it still amazes me that they can target a tiny little rock in the middle of one big nothing, and hit it
  <diddledan__> more info: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/22/amateurs_tag_new_supernova/
  <diddledan__> shauno: and yet they aim at mars and miss so much they can't even figure out where the damned thing went
  <diddledan__> (metric+imperial)
  <shauno> hey, there's a lot of nothing out there
  <diddledan__> but doing the numbers right is kinda an obvious thing to try, though, no?
  <shauno> I've been playing a whole lot of KSP .. I still have a little dude in a tin can somewhere that I have no idea how to bring home.  one 'oopsie' is all it takes
  <diddledan__> KSP is awesome. I haven't got out of kerbin's gravity yet
  <diddledan__> I don't play games much though
  <shauno> I'm actually putting together a mars mission right now :)
  <shauno> completely overdone though.  I spend last night docking chunks together at 6-7 seconds per frame
  <diddledan__> ouch
  <diddledan__> that's SLOW
  <diddledan__> you must have had a helluva lot of components to be that slow
  <shauno> to put it midly :)
  <shauno> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23042/Screen%20Shot%202014-01-24%20at%2008.01.51.png   (the stripey texturing is an odd glitch I keep hitting when I drive it too hard)
  <shauno> (the green section is a floating gas station, 90,000 units of fuel in orbit.  and red station is my 'tug' come to refuel.  it can tow pretty much anything I can put into orbit, to pretty much anywhere)
  <shauno> (I since discovered the coloured lights are a huge fps hit, but .. I like them :)
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: found a dude who's on enta+openwrt, he's gonna send me his configs in the morning \o/
  <bigcalm> Tum te tum
  <shauno> I really should look into a new router.  atm I have one that has the throughput, but no toys (it's apple), and one that has teh powerz but lame throughput
  <shauno> out of curiousity, I popped up a ssh honeypot.  the results after the first week kinda broke my stereotypes.  china's only in third place, after india & the US
  <diddledan__> shauno: proxies
  <shauno> it doesn't seem so, actually.  they all came from a single host, but out-numbered everyone else
  <shauno> interesting to trawl through the list of attempted passwords though
  <shauno> I'm actually surprised to see not a single AWS address in 5,000 attempts, since they have something of a reputation for being a cesspool
  <shauno> also interesting to see a series of attempts from nanjing for root/alpine.  that's the default root pass on the iphone
  <shauno> seems a bit tenuous, since you have to root your phone, install ssh but not change the password.  and then be behind a carrier that doesn't NAT mobile, assuming they exist
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-25
  <MartijnVdS> http://bropages.org/
  <foobarry> most of my fail2ban bans are from china
  <foobarry> "my" i mean directed at a few work servers
  <shauno> yeah. That'd always been my assumption too - that's why I found it interesting that I've logged more attempts from India than China.
  <foobarry> both big places
  <shauno> well, sorted by attempts; china win if you sort by unique IPs.  so I guess it's skewing towards people who'll try a bigger password list
  <foobarry> ok, so matches my fail2ban scenario
  <shauno> yeah.  you shouldn't see a lot of attempts from a single IP if you're banning them after x many
  <foobarry> so lenovo are getting the ibm servers
  <foobarry> will take a while to improve though. currently its  terrible to administer ibm servers
  <foobarry> CHINANET jiangsu province network
  <foobarry> nearly all fail2bans over last 24 hrs from there
  <foobarry> s/24/6/
  <popey> Morning
  <MartijnVdS> \o popey
  <MartijnVdS> popey: is the fsck done? :)
  <popey> it did finish, but it never boots
  <popey> will look again later
  <foobarry> "mario kart gives me breath, because i can play sitting down".
  <foobarry> the answer to why he didn't want to play wii golf
  <foobarry> lazy teenager already at 4?
  <Myrtti> I know this isn't the most brilliant thing around and it's got some flaws, but https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope
  <Myrtti> might still be interesting to some
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
  <foobarry> elementary are developing shotwell now?  i thought shotwell would be better than geary for yorba.
  <foobarry> feel bad for watching click without my son
  <brobostigon> click is on in 20mins, i think.
  <foobarry> i recorded it
  <foobarry> dont take chances on live tv with little kids
  <foobarry> heh http://ahprojects.com/projects/camoflash
  <foobarry> i spy ubuntu on click
  <foobarry> on the robot section
  <brobostigon> :)
  <knightwise> afternoon guys
  <brobostigon> quick visit.
  <brobostigon> wb knightwise
  <knightwise> hey there
  <knightwise> how are you bro
  <brobostigon> not bad, and you?
  <knightwise> doing ok.. Wife sleeping on the couch
  <knightwise> taking the time to tinker on the computer a bit
  <knightwise> jsut installed the tor browser and stuff
  <brobostigon> :)
  <knightwise> and torify is a pretty cool command when you think of it :)
  <knightwise> firefox vs torify firefox :)
  <brobostigon> i similerly like orbot on my droids.
  <knightwise> do you need root for that ?
  <knightwise> probably right ?
  <brobostigon> nope.
  <knightwise> ah
   * knightwise googles orbot
  <knightwise> sounds very interesting
  <knightwise> especially when you are on open wifi and stuff
  <brobostigon> however you can run it on root, and it adds a few more features to it.
  <brobostigon> yes.
  <brobostigon> i do however have openvpn setup, for that aswell.
   * knightwise needs to get openvpn working on his router
  <knightwise> should not be that hard though.
  <knightwise> I have an asus AC66U with Merlin
   * brobostigon points knightwise at MartijnVdS's blog for guideance.
  <knightwise> Url again ?
  <knightwise> (me needs to subscribe)
  <brobostigon> let me try and find it.
  <brobostigon> i cant find it, :(
  <knightwise> no prob , i'll ding him when I see him
  <brobostigon> :)
   * knightwise needs some tea
  <popey> http://dhmholley.co.uk/civclicker.html IS FUN
  <popey> -caps
  <penguin42> popey: Ahem - damn you, that's some time wasted :-)
  <popey> yeah, fun isnt it?
  <shauno> okay, I'm missing something - where does Ore come from?
  <Myrtti> stone
  <Myrtti> if you upgrade miners
  <Myrtti> popey: I hate you
  <shauno> but I need 10 ore to upgrade miners.  I seem to be stuck in a catch-22 there
  <directhex> fire your smiths
  <directhex> same when you need leather, fire your tanners
  <shauno> no smiths, seemed silly with no ore  lol
  <shauno> I just did ore.total=10 on the error console, jump-started that catch-22 :)
  <DJones> Heh, friend just sent me a link to this http://www.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/2581.jpg possibly something you'd agree with Myrtti  especially when you hear people in the uk commenting on cold weather
  <Myrtti> http://lordeh.tumblr.com/image/2899693012
  <DJones> Thats not quite the normal pic's he sends, but yes the sentiment is very similar
  <Myrtti> it's the garden swing picture, isn't it?
  <DJones> I think the last picture was his car under about 6 feet of snow
  <DJones> Or quirky ones like this https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q71/s720x720/1533886_10203231754453931_1018423267_n.jpg
  <DJones> Myrtti: You mentioned the garden swing picture.... https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/168420_1854126432164_5913589_n.jpg
  <Myrtti> http://isjkl.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/meanwhile-in-finland.jpg?w=720
  <DJones> Is that typical of the whole country in winter, or do different areas get affected differently
  <Myrtti> well you can see the amount of snow now-ish http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/12067909824/ from the edge of the planter
  <Myrtti> I suspect there's less snow on the southern coast
  <DJones> Friend moved to JyvÃ¤skylÃ¤ from the UK about 5 years ago after speaking/meeting his partner on facebook, brave to do that, but they're a good match for each other
  <Myrtti> AlanBell: what happened to your cloak!
  <AlanBell> Myrtti: I appear to have fallen off the internet
  <Myrtti> you have
  <AlanBell> Myrtti: lots of weather is happening, it might have something to do with that
  <Myrtti> indeed
  <MartijnVdS> weather? where?
  <popey> â¥
  <popey> a tree fell on a car at frimley park hospital just now
  <popey> yay, went out to take sam to a party, come back to 176K piety
  <Myrtti> well atleast this makes a little bit more sense than Settlers online
   * AlanBell is looking forward to haggis
  <mapps> yea the weather's pretty bad..i wokeup to rain banging on my windows and thunder and lightnoing!
  <Myrtti> very very frightning
  <Myrtti> sorry
  <Myrtti> I'll see myself out
  <MartijnVdS> galileo?
  <mapps> well
  <mapps> Myrtti, the prospect of having to walk to work i that weather was frightening
  <mapps> :P
  <TheProphetS> Hi all
  <MartijnVdS> \o
  <TheProphetS> I have a problem with ubuntu 13.10. I could not see the mouse pointer and fonts were super large so I tried removing nvidia drivers and reinstalling them but now I the screen is just black, I see grub, but Ubuntu does not show. I am pretty positive it gets to the login screen but I can't see anything. I have an intel card as well and the pc is connected to an LG tv
  <MartijnVdS> what happens when you connect the screen to the intel card?
  <MartijnVdS> it might be seeing the wrong one first, and using that
  <TheProphetS> I can see the screen but no pointer and large fonts just like it was with the nvidia
  <MartijnVdS> Did it work and break later, or did it never work?
  <MartijnVdS> Does the installer show correctly?
  <TheProphetS> It always worked
  <TheProphetS> The installer you mean the nvidia one? I was using the repository drivers
  <MartijnVdS> what broke it then?
  <MartijnVdS> no, I mean the Ubuntu installer :)
  <MartijnVdS> did that also have big fonts?
  <TheProphetS> Never had big fonts before
  <TheProphetS> And could always see the pointer
  <MartijnVdS> so, what changed to make that happen?
  <TheProphetS> I'm guessing an update of some sort
  <TheProphetS> I run aptitude safe-upgrade usually to be on the safe side of things
  <MartijnVdS> hmm
  <MartijnVdS> I don't have nvidia, so I don't know if I can help you
  <MartijnVdS> popey might know, he always knows.
  <TheProphetS> Is there a way to remove all nvidia stuff and maybe unity as well , and would that help?
  <MartijnVdS> I doubt it
  <popey> how did you remove the nvidia drivers?
  <TheProphetS> Also when I connect to the intel card I can't see the virtual terminals, I just see the still image of X
  <TheProphetS> Sudo apt-get purge nvidia*
  <popey> and how did you install them?
  <TheProphetS> Sudo apt-get install nvidia-current
  <popey> you may have removed something else that's needed
  <popey> try "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dsktop^"
  <popey> er
  <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
  <TheProphetS> Is it ok if I do it when connected to the intel card? I can't seem to find a way to access the other virtual terminals
  <popey> yes
  <TheProphetS> I'm gonna have to try safe mode now, can't even see the login screen with the intel card now, or at least I could see it for a few seconds and then it went blank
  <TheProphetS> I mean recovery mode, sorry
  <TheProphetS> Ubuntu-desktop is already the newest version apparently
  <TheProphetS> At the moment I have the nvidia 304 driver installed
  <TheProphetS> But also nvidia-driver, nvidia-glx, nvidia-kernel-amd64, nvidia-kernel-dkms, and many others are NOT installed, is that wrong?
  <Myrtti> this made me chuckle. http://imgur.com/gallery/ulwiHGy
  <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: custom status messages \o/ :)
  <MartijnVdS> we used to do that at uni
  <Myrtti> (also, sorry for the language on the first image)
  <bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
  <popey> TheProphetS:  you need the ^ on the end
  <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
  <popey> bigcalm: hows the laptop?
  <TheProphetS> Popey I have unmet dependencies
  <popey> can you pastebin it?
  <bigcalm> popey: pretty sweet. Glad I bought it :)
  <popey> 18:22:11 < TheProphetS> But also nvidia-driver, nvidia-glx, nvidia-kernel-amd64, nvidia-kernel-dkms, and many others are NOT installed, is that wrong?
  <popey> TheProphetS: yes, because you removed nvidia* which was a bad thing to do
  <bigcalm> Oh, is nVidia working properly in 14.04 yet? :)
  <TheProphetS> Unmet dependencies are for libgoa-1.0-0
  <popey> can you pastebin the full output?
  <popey> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
  <popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ | pastebinit
  <popey> then give us the link
  <TheProphetS> I am using the root shell from the recovery mode and I think I'm not connected right now, gonna try and get online from the shell
  <TheProphetS> Although I shouldn't since its a root shell
  <popey> do  you have wired or wifi?
  <TheProphetS> Wifi
  <TheProphetS> Maybe there's a way to start in text mode
  <popey> there is
  <MartijnVdS> there is, it's rescue mode
  <DJones> !text
  <lubotu3> To start your system in text-only mode append 'text' (without the quotes) to the kernel line in the grub menu. You can access the grub menu by pressing Esc (Grub legacy) or Shift (Grub2) during boot. For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Text%20Mode
  <popey> \o/
  <MartijnVdS> oh?
   * MartijnVdS learns something new
  <TheProphetS> Dunno what I've done exactly but I managed to start a shell and install pastebinit
  <TheProphetS> A proper login shell from recovery mode
  <TheProphetS> Http://paste.ubuntu.com/6815808
  <popey> TheProphetS: do you have any PPAs enabled in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
  <TheProphetS> Sorry about the capital H
  <popey> i suspect you have the gnome3 team ppa enabled
  <TheProphetS> Yes
  <popey> do you use gnome shell?
  <TheProphetS> Not really, just when unity breaks or when something new comes up in gnome shell
  <popey> ah
  <popey> well that's contributing to your woes a bit
  <TheProphetS> Should I purge it? I don't mind really
  <popey> but probably unrelated to the nvidia issue
  <popey> maybe â»
  <popey> i probably would, to get back to stock. you can always try and re-add later
  <MartijnVdS> popey: a different gtk setting could lead to big fonts -- dpi stuff
  <popey> true
  <popey> good point!
  <TheProphetS> Gnome-shell is not installed at the moment
  <popey> but other related things are
  <popey> which one do you have?
  <popey> gnome3, gnome3-next or gnome3-staging >
  <popey> ?
  <popey> basically "sudo apt-get install ppa-purge" then "sudo ppa-purge ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3" or "/gnome3-next" or "/gnome3-staging" depending on which one you have in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
  <popey> i need to go and bath the kids
  <popey> (not an euphemism)
  <TheProphetS> Ok enjoy the bath :-) thank you!
  <TheProphetS> Have you tried SteamOS yet?
  <maps|work> not i
  <TheProphetS> How about the 14.04 LTS?
  <maps|work> na im way back on 13.10 :)
  <maps|work> im always quite slow to upgrade
  <maps|work> what are you running?
  <maps|work> hi apache
  <maps|work> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617743-93/does-your-isp-throttle-bittorrent-traffic-find-out/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
  <maps|work> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617743-93/does-your-isp-throttle-bittorrent-traffic-find-out/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
  <maps|work> UKs higher than i thought
  <maps|work> whereas the United Kingdom was the second most throttled country in Europe with 28 percent,
  <shauno> if only that was the biggest thing wrong with connectivity in the UK
  <maps|work> well yea i just wish i could get cable or FTC
  <maps|work> who are you with
  <shauno> I haven't lived in the UK for 13 years.  so my last there was freeserve
  <maps|work> ah wow that was ages back i had freeserve whgen it was dialup and pcworld ran it or something iirc
  <maps|work> where'd you live now? Spain?
  <shauno> hah, I wish.  Ireland for now
  <shauno> I'm on UPC.  they appear to be in roughly half of europe.  they do block tpb due to court process, but other than that, I'm glad it doesn't resemble the UK too closely
  <maps|work> yea this lame blocking torrent sites is just dumb..it's just like whack-a-mole block one domain a new one pops up
  <maps|work> even if they block the domain and associated IP it hardly stops it.. a quick google of tpb and any idiot can get round the UK block
  <shauno> I pay for 120, usually get closer to 150-180 depending on time of day, and don't have "think of the children" filtering.  For me, it's about as good as it gets without moving to the Netherlands
  <maps|work> lol think of the children you mean all this talk abourt blocking porn/suicide sites/violence etc? what a load of nonsense - these filters are operating atm but not enforced and existing customers have to opt in but IIRC you'll have to opt out in the future
  <maps|work> its all a totla waste of tme..
  <shauno> it sounds kinda idealistic, but it doesn't bother me what they're blocking.  it bothers me that they've now built the infrastructure, so they can add anything they like, whenever they like
  <maps|work> what do you mean about add anything they like?
  <maps|work> yea it is idealistic..I mean it's not practical..how easy is it to circumvent..be it a proxy or a VPN or a web based proxy so the user needn even have to know how to setup an http proxy/vpn server
  <maps|work> i.e. tpbunblocked.me any fool can click that - and the filtering of websites leads to sites being blocked thjat shouldnt be i.e. the UK filter has ended u blocking some sex education sites/rape charity sites..clearly not intended
  <shauno> it's a "slippery slope" scenario.  If the filters don't exist, you can just say "not technically feasible" any request
  <maps|work> yep..where do they stop i hate talk about censoring the net..its like parents that say ask.fm needs to be monitorred or shut down
  <maps|work> how would that wo0rk..shutdown ask.fm and the next day a new one opens up under a differnt name/different location...if people want to find a way to access stuff they will
  <shauno> once they do, "omgz child porn" turns into "protect the copyright holders" turns into "there's an injunction about x scandal involving y football player", and it winds up being full-scale thought police far too quickly
  <maps|work> look at how the darkweb (tor) is full of child porn apparently - well they cant filter that
  <maps|work> yea
  <maps|work> but then no one country/person owns the internet so they can never FULLY filter it
  <shauno> I guess my issue is that being able to say no to everything was far more trustworthy than letting some civil servant decide what to say no to
  <maps|work> what do you mean being able to say no to everything?
  <shauno> well, when the simple excuse was that it wasn't possible.  the simple, innocent days
  <maps|work> will this uk wide filter last or will it exist for a bit and eventually be scrapped?!
  <shauno> I hope it won't last, but I don't hold my hopes high.  the chances of finding enough politicians willing to stand the "fighting to allow child porn" flak is unlikely
  <shauno> I do hope for a lot more transparency.  we should have access to a full list of what's filtered, why, at who's request.  and requests that are pending/denied.
  <shauno> that would inspire a lot more confidence in whoever gets to tick the boxes
  <maps|work> thing is it cant be maintained..each isp has their own filter and its based on algorithms..not someone manually adding/removbing..surely its too time consuming to  have to manually add/remove sites
  <shauno> what I do find an interesting mental exercise; I'm currently in the process of moving to central/eastern europe.  "the other side of the curtain" by all accounts.  and I find it interesting to see things from their point of view
  <penguin42> shauno: Where about?
  <shauno> 40 years to oust the russian, often a price paid in blood; and the net result is that they now have a different name for big brother.  that feels like a huge letdown
  <shauno> penguin42: slovakia
  <penguin42> shauno: Interesting, I don't know anyone who has gone there
  <maps|work> not sure what you mean? you mean becuase they used to be russian controlled and now arent
  <maps|work> ive been to Czech republic (formerly czechoslovakia) and was meant to go to Bratislava few months back but couldnt..will go sometime this year
  <shauno> because it used to be the stazi trying to monitor what they read, who they talked to, etc, and now there's western govts doing exactly the same thing much more efficiently
  <penguin42> yeh, I know people in Brno
  <shauno> I've only been to brno once.  it wasn't my idea, it was ryanair's :|
  <penguin42> shauno: It shouldn't really be too much of a surprise to anyone - after all Cryptography was pretty much banned in France until fairly recently
  <maps|work> hm howcome you meant to Brno and not PRAGUE
  <shauno> brno was the closest airport to where we were meant to be going (bts/bratislava)
  <maps|work> AHH
  <maps|work> yea there's no airport in bratislava right? when i was looking a lot of flights were to austria then transfer i think?
  <penguin42> that is bizarre; http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/rearrange-your-office-easy-wit-143995
  <shauno> my only impressions were that it's a scary airport; they still have doors marked in cyrillic before passport
  <penguin42> (in a great way)
  <shauno> bratislava has a pretty decent airport.  it feels like grant money; completely overdone for their needs
  <MartijnVdS> lots of airports are like that
  <shauno> so ryanair fly their rather than vienna because it's much cheaper, but only a 1hr bus transfer to vienna
  <shauno> but the airport is so quiet that they still meet every flight with a fire engine
  <shauno> it honestly feels like you've just walked in on one big charade.  and I've been there .. I think 20 times in the last 24 months
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: Bratislava? Why go so often?
  <shauno> because I'm simple, and there's a girl involved
  <MartijnVdS> Maybe she gets the firetrucks to go out and greet your plane? :)
  <shauno> I'm trying not to be an idiot about it, but the job market looks fantastic from my POV.
  <shauno> overall they're basically assembly lines.  last I heard they produce more cars per capita than any other country globally
  <penguin42> shauno: Generally it seems pretty good at the moment
  <MartijnVdS> work-from-home jobs work from everywhere, also, development jobs are everywhere (local and "remote" work)
  <shauno> but there's a lot of multinationals just begging for anyone who doesn't think that networks are pure voodoo.  and a lot of the same multinationals that have to meet employment goals of native english-speakers
  <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod
  <MartijnVdS> one of the few jobs that have seen very little decline, software dev
  <shauno> dell, amazon, at&t, novell, ibm, etc.  just crying out for anybody at all, with a heavy preference to native english speakers
  <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh it's because as more developers are added we manage to make bigger, more complex systems that have more places to add more developers - goto START
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: sounds like.. a job security machine
  <maps|work> hm there's an airport in Bratislava? howcome they fly to Vienna and you have to go from there then on most flights?
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: vienna airport is bigger, more flights go to it
  <maps|work> aha
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: bratislava airport is probably a lot cheaper to land at (hence ryanair)
  <maps|work> when i looked on expedia i didnt see a single direct flight to BTS airport
  <maps|work> if its cheaper why wouldnt more fly direct
  <maps|work> direct seems better?
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: ryanair doesn't allow (m)any third parties to access their flight data
  <jussi> ryanscare dont usually come on the agregated searches
  <shauno> yeah, ryanair don't like indexers.  they dont' want "we're the cheapest" to be a question
  <maps|work> ah
  <maps|work> but jet2 dont fly direct for example
  <jussi> vienna is a very big airport... a major hub iirc.
  <maps|work> and ryanair was horrible when i flew to majorcaused -used jet2 for Prague and KLM for Holland both way better..do any others than ryan air fly direct??
  <shauno> ryanair are about the only 'western' carrier I've found that do
  <maps|work> ahh ok thought so..damn flying direct would be way better!!!! oi know you can get easily from vienna to bts but its a hassle - how long does it take?
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Ryanair to the Netherlands flies to Eindhoven. Which is almost as far from Amsterdam as Birmingham is from London
  <shauno> it's about an hour by bus, and about the same by rail
  <maps|work> I flew to Schiphol very big airport
  <jussi> MartijnVdS: oh come on, doesnt the netherlands fit into Birmingham? :P
  <shauno> annoyingly, by rail is *much* cheaper from bratislava to vienna, than the reverse
  <MartijnVdS> jussi: shush
  <jussi> hehe
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Schiphol is a great airport.. and I've seen a few :)
  <MartijnVdS> SFO isn't bad either
  <jussi> I love schiphol.
  <maps|work> yes , I had a McDonalds and heineken for my pre flight meal
  <jussi> Helsinki is also nice.
  <shauno> last I used the trains there, it was e15 for a bts-vnn return, and e40 for vnn-bts one-way.  and starting in bratislava bought you access to vienna's public transport for 24hrs
  <maps|work> hey MartijnVdS howcome everywhere on Holland was Heineken? very rarely saw say Amstel or anything else?
  <maps|work> but Amstel is nice
  <jussi> but then again... avoid CDG like the plague...
  <maps|work> Heineken was EVERYWHERE
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: yes, and we HATE it :)
  <maps|work> yes so why is it everywhere?
  <maps|work> what do you like?
  <jussi> price....?
  <shauno> http://www.bts.aero/en/passengers/flight-information/current-arrivals/  gives you an idea of who uses BTS.  it's pretty much ryanair and a bunch of airlines you've never heard of
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: well, I'm biased, my brothers are brewers ;)
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/
  <maps|work> ah
  <maps|work> you dont like Amstel either? amstel and groslch were both fine but rarely saw them
  <maps|work> heineken was expensive most places nearly 6 euros
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: it's all mass-produced. I prefer beer from smaller/local breweries -- much more interesting taste than plain pilsner
  <shauno> paris was the worst I've found yet.  for 8e you can get a bartender to laugh at you.  to add liquid goes up from there
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: ask for wine instead?
  <maps|work> lol shauno
  <shauno> I'm not a big wine guy
  <maps|work> so noo other airline flies direct to BTS that sucks - so is it best to fly direct with ryan air and just make do with rubbish airline or fly with someone else and do a transfer from vienna?
  <shauno> it works as long as it's cloyingly dry.  it's difficult express that in a bar that speaks Foreignese
  <shauno> personally, I stick with ryanair.  despite the reputation, they're pretty decent as long as you're willing to play the game
  <maps|work> i mean sure theyre ok but damn i mean there reaqlly isnt any room KLM/jet2 was way more comfortable
  <shauno> but I do have a bias that I'm in the republic, and there's not so many flying from here  (it's difficult to penetrate ryanair's home turf)
  <jussi> maps|work: its a short flight...
  <maps|work> true
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: "un vin sec s'il vous plaÃ®t"
  <maps|work> but it was still nicer on klm and jet2:D
  <MartijnVdS> speaking of French
  <maps|work> if it wasnt a short flight..wouldnt even consider!
  <shauno> I've developed a very useful talent.  I'm usually asleep before they've finished boarding, let alone flying
  <MartijnVdS> I need to book a hotel there :)
  <maps|work> hey MartijnVdS  i went to amsterdam dungeons on my last day in Holland..that was fun!!
  <maps|work> we were just walking around killing some time ..we'd checked out of hotel and flight home was later that evening
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: I've never been to those
  <MartijnVdS> (and I work in Amsterdam..)
  <shauno> it helps that my regular flight requires me to leave the house at 1am, to make a bus for a 6am flight and a 10am arrival.  passing out as soon as I'm sat down is almost mandatory
  <jussi> shauno: ouch
  <maps|work> i hadnt been to any of them before .id heard of london dungeons but hadnt been..it was cool man!
  <maps|work> i still remember the young girl..near Hard Rock cafe 'yes it is ok to cycle at night you wont get raped here' :D think she maybe meant something different
  <jussi> maps|work: can you play dungeons and dragons there? :P
  <shauno> it works out surprisingly well.  3 hours of doze on the bus, 3 hours of sleep on the plane, and I'm good to go when we land
  <shauno> a'dam is strange for that.  it's okay to cycle pretty much anywhere.  walking or driving is scary - militant cyclists hide around every corner
  <maps|work> yep cars..tram..cyclists..walking around is tough!!
  <penguin42> shauno: You've just given me a mental image of someone on a penny-black with a machine gun
  <shauno> penguin42: that wouldn't be far off.  the cyclists 'run' a'dam.
  <maps|work> hah jussi  :D honestly though its way cooler than i thought it'd be id like to go to the london dungeons at some point now after how good amsterdam one was
  <shauno> I did like amsterdam though.  it's on the short list of places I'd live in by choice
  <maps|work> not sure i would
  <maps|work> too used to the uk. MartijnVdS  you live near central ams?
  <shauno> the center is impossibly cute, and they're absurdly friendly for what's essentially a germanic people
  <shauno> I'm not used to the UK; I left at 20.  and you honestly couldn't pay me to go back
  <penguin42> this Virgin router is very broken; it's showing my netbook which is connected to 1) the wifi on the router, (192.168.0.x?) and via ether via another NAT layer with the NATd address and showing it under the Wireless devices that's impossible
  <penguin42> shauno: We won't bite
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: I live ~40km from the centre of Amsterdam, in a small town :)
  <maps|work> im confused penguin42  so it is using wifi but u say it isnt?
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: one hour by bus, or 30 minutes by car (but no affordable parking spots available..)
  <maps|work> cycle!
  <penguin42> maps|work: It's showing it connected via the wifi (which it is) but showing it's internal wired address on the wifi pane
  <shauno> penguin42: a large part of my problem is that I find that difficult to believe
  <penguin42> shauno: Haha - where in the UK were you?
  <shauno> portsmouth, plymouth, oxford, newcastle, barrow (south lakes), and near helensburgh
  <shauno> errr near glasgow (helensburgh)
  <penguin42> hmm, never been to any of those places
  <maps|work> portsmouths ok
  <maps|work> lived there when i was at uni
  <shauno> my last visit to the UK .. I wandered from the bar to the nearest corner shop to buy smokes.  I accidentally reached into the wrong pocket and produced a 10e note instead of a 10gbp note
  <shauno> they didn't just laugh at me.  they grabbed my jacket and pushed me out the door
  <shauno> while, yes, I was rather drunk - I wasn't antisocially so - I'm far too much of an introvert for that.  but I've lived england, scotland, ireland, the US, and I've never been treated like that anywhere but 'home turf'
  <maps|work> =[
  <penguin42> :-(
  <shauno> (that was newcastle city center, but I honestly don't have a better opinion of anywhere that uses 'innit' in a sentence)
  <maps|work> i find the red light just so funny MartijnVdS  :D how its a normal bar then 3 hookers in a window :D
  <shauno> I thought my scheme of carrying euros in left-hand pockets and sterling in right-hand pockets was genius.  oh well
  <maps|work> best solution
  <maps|work> stop smoking
  <maps|work> !
  <jussi> see, here in .fi, cash is almost unknown... excet for somethiing you use in the slot machines in service stations :P
  <MartijnVdS> similar in .nl
  <shauno> I'm kinda scared of plastic  lol
  <penguin42> uses plastic for most stuff
  <MartijnVdS> though some people use cash almost exclusively
  <shauno> I had a bad experience, not long after I moved here from the US.  I only got a credit card because the debit scheme in ireland is unheard of anywhere else, and I live on the internet
  <maps|work> in pub MartijnVdS ? have to use cash
  <shauno> so I went to a job interview in london, went to check-in at the hotel, and required my CC pin for the first time ever.  I had no idea what it was.  very awkward
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Nah, you can use cards in most now
  <maps|work> for just 1 beer?!
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: sure
  <maps|work> oh didnt know often pubs/bars have 10GBP minimu
  <shauno> I try to use my card where I Can just because it makes accounting easier, but I try to make sure I have enough cash to cover eventualities
  <penguin42> some shops do as well
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: they lowered transaction costs here to have shops accept cards for lower amounts
  <shauno> minimums tend to apply to credit but not debit, fwiw
  <MartijnVdS> the "we use your credit card as a tab" system is unknown here though :( Like that bit of pubs in the UK :)
  <maps|work> yes MartijnVdS  have you been to cz? totally diff there its all on tab --- get a beer..sit down tab get another etc
  <shauno> long ago I worked in 'service' .. processing charges on credit were a percentage with a fixed minimum, charges on debit were just the fixed minimum
  <maps|work> very different to UK
  <directhex> cash
  <directhex> seriously
  <directhex> it's 2014 and we trade using shiny pebbles
  <directhex> i mean, wtf?
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: I've been to Prague. Horrible city.
  <maps|work> ya but sometimes they charge you to use a card in a shop too remember
  <maps|work> :(
  <shauno> prague is pretty but unfriendly.  bratislava is ugly but friendly :)
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: when I was there, prague was ugly and unfriendly
  <MartijnVdS> though beer was cheaper than water
  <maps|work> i thought bratislava was meant to be nice not ugly - MartijnVdS  people sya Prague is beautiful and also a lot of locals have poor english..not like NL
  <shauno> hah, yeah, BA is the same.  cans are cheaper than plastic, and plastic is cheaper than glass.  the contents appear to be irrelevant
  <maps|work> guy in a bar in the redlight (guess he was the man running it) said that the people he finds the most annoying are Italians in Holland
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: macho shouty guys?
  <shauno> everyone finds italians annoying, but you didn't hear that from me
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: that's the stereotype anyway
  <maps|work> i think he said theyre sleazy too
  <maps|work> yea
  <MartijnVdS> There are lots of people who believe everyone is the stereotype :)
  <shauno> I have a problem with italians at work, where they appear to think italian is an international language
  <MartijnVdS> I try to avoid stereotype-thinking as much as possible
  <maps|work> lol shauno
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: and the handwaving!
  <shauno> less so the handwaving, cisco's voip doesn't stretch that far
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: reply in clerical latin then
  <shauno> but as far as I'm concerned, international languages are english, podonghua, german, and french.  in that order.   italians disagree.
  <penguin42> podonghua?
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: "standard chinese", mandarin
  <shauno> what we call mandarin, is a very bad stereotype; 'mandarins' were politicians.  potonghua is "the people's language"
  <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese
  <daftykins> ooh, interesting
  <penguin42> oh, interesting fact of the day :-)
  <jennie> hello
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: in Dutch, the tiny sweet orange citrus fruit are called "mandarijnen" 8-)
  <MartijnVdS> hi jennie
  <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Same in the UK
  <shauno> so (without the tones) wo hoi shoi podonghua ma?  not, do you speak mandarin
  <jennie> hi MartijnVdS , are you from UK ?
  <MartijnVdS> jennie: I'm not :)
  <MartijnVdS> but some of the other people in here are
  <jennie> ok
  <daftykins> we let him off for it occasionally
  <daftykins> ;)
  <penguin42> jennie: And you?
  <jennie> penguin42 are you from UK ?
   * penguin42 is
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: your name ssounds Antarctic to me ;)
   * penguin42 hands MartijnVdS a herring
  <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.lauraspeaksdutch.info/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/img_0256.JPG
  <shauno> I have to say, the chinese are acutally amazing to deal with.  all you need is "I'm sorry, may I ask, do you speak english" in mandarin rather than just continuing in english, and you win them on the spot
  <shauno> the trick is not just to ask if they speak english; but to recognise the decorum they expect from a 'servant'.  instant win
  <daftykins> penguin42: was it red?
  <MartijnVdS> it's the same with the French really :)
  <daftykins> shauno: servant? 0o
  <shauno> I find french difficult.  I Can just about manage "8am".  phone back after 8am.  please.  please.
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: but most nouns are the same as in English
  <MartijnVdS> s/most/a lot/
  <shauno> daftykins: confucianism is very heirachial.  to an extreme.  you can find youtube videos of, eg, hairdressesers rehearing the "welcome how many I help" act
  <daftykins> rehearing? 0o
  <MartijnVdS> daftykins: don't you rehearse when you need to talk to customers?
  <daftykins> ...no?
  <MartijnVdS> do you ever talk to customers?
  <maps|work> well
  <maps|work> jennie didnt say much eh
  <MartijnVdS> just checking if everyone here is from the uk 8-)
   * dwatkins waves
  <shauno> sorry, this isn't my most sober, and my keyboard is strugling to translate.  they have routines like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USeSAGfko-U
  <maps|work> most of us are:D
  <maps|work> we have a few odd ones out like MartijnVdS  :D
   * MartijnVdS listens to Michael Jackson's Thriller.. that video is oddly synchronised.
  <daftykins> shauno: gone already at 9pm!?
  <maps|work> heh
  <daftykins> MartijnVdS: well, clients yeah, but mostly it's ad-hoc on the spot explanations of issues discovered then and there
  <shauno> I forgot to sleep last night.  I worked 12 hours.  shifts are weird.
  <daftykins> erk!
  <MartijnVdS> shauno: you *forgot*?
  <daftykins> Irish, 'nough said ;)
  <shauno> sleeping is fairly down my list of priorities.  I have a job that's conductive to napping.
  <shauno> eg, if it's not beeping, I can do pretty much anything that doesnt' look inexcusable
   * MartijnVdS Ctrl+Gs at shauno 
  <maps|work> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/01/bug-exposes-ip-cameras-baby-monitors/
  <maps|work> always see stff like this with IP cameras..but lol clicking OK when asked for user/pass and you get in:D
  <maps|work> ctrl +g?
  <shauno> oh it gets better.  I've found a firefox extension called 'muter', so the beeping is optional.  so on the weekends, when there's no grownups - we take turns
  <shauno> ^G should create the terminal bell, from memory
  <MartijnVdS> maps|work: Ctrl+G = \007 = ASCII "BEL"
  <MartijnVdS> = \a
  <mr_dick> join #dogecoin
  <MartijnVdS> mr_dick: such forget. much /. wow.
  <mr_dick> lol
  <maps|work> ;]
  <maps|work> hm#
  <maps|work> he cant make his mind up
  <maps|work> ;]
  <maps|work> what linux sites/podcasts/magazines do you all read
  <brobostigon> osnews
  <moreati> maps|work: lwn, hacker news, links from twitter, planet python, python weekly, postgresql weekly, 2 or 3 subreddits
  <bigcalm> Anybody here tried playing 140 on Steam on Linux?
  <bigcalm> The game doesn't seem to run for me
  <bigcalm> !ping
  <lubotu3> pong!
  <bigcalm> Oh
  <Myrtti> popey: http://www.corsair.com/us/mx-rgb
  <Myrtti> (obviously no idea how good it is but omg pretty!)
  <maps|work> never even heard of 140
  <maps|work> ooh thats pretty Myrtti  hadn't seen that before
  <popey> Myrtti: i really want a keyboard with touchpoint
  <Myrtti> oh, right
  <maps|work> stupid work machine crashed
  <maps|work> can someone paste the respnse i got to my question about what linux sites people read
  <maps|work> please;]
  <Myrtti> osnews lwn, hacker news, links from twitter, planet python, python  weekly, postgresql weekly, 2 or 3 subreddits
  <Myrtti> maps|work: ^
  <Myrtti> (didn't include nicknames because it's late and didn't want to unnecessarily highlight)
  <maps|work> thanks:D
  <maps|work> ARGHHH whats happening - sorry got distracted someone pestering me at work-can u paste again:(
  <maps|work> il cp it to notepad then:D
  #ubuntu-uk 2014-01-26
  <moreati> maps|work: also the channel is logged, see the /topic for the url
  <maps|work> ahh thanks moreati
  <maps|work> didnt even think of that, cheers
  <maps|work> :)
  <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: IPv6 is now functional \o/
  <Azelphur> anyone awake to help me with network-manager not working?
  <Azelphur> this ones a longstanding issue, it won't ever connect, always used dhclient eth0 as a workaround, but that doesn't work for IPv6 :(
  <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wgcBK8Y7 looks like it might shed some light on the issue
  <daftykins> those logs read like both v4 and v6 are failing to get a timely response from your DHCP server for both
  <Azelphur> daftykins, really? to me it looks like apparmor is denying the machine to even make a DHCP request
  <Azelphur> if I dhclient eth0 it comes straight up, so the routers DHCP is fine
  <daftykins> oh yeah, i mean as a result potentially
  <daftykins> i thought as you're here you'd have v4 working at least, do you run static instead?
  <daftykins> you and your setups ;) how can even DHCP be quirky XD
  <Azelphur> I'm on my laptop at the moment, my PC has had this problem for a while
  <Azelphur> but dhclient eth0 works as a workaround, although no IPv6, and also annoying
  <daftykins> ah
  <daftykins> no extra switches or what not with dhclient to query for both?
  <daftykins> i've still had pretty much zero exposure to v6 sadly
  <Azelphur> not that I know of, would prefer to fix it properly anyway
  <Azelphur> running dhclient every boot gets old
  <daftykins> indeed!
  <daftykins> i take it the interfaces file is clean of eth0 references so as to not ruin NM's day?
  <Azelphur> yup, only loopback in there
  <daftykins> hrmmph
  <daftykins> desktop always did it across clean installs, so trying a fresh user wouldn't help?
  <Azelphur> nah I imagine a clean install would help
  <daftykins> or find the NM config and nuke it as a test i guess
  <daftykins> anywho, must sleep :D
  <daftykins> semi crazy o'clock reached
  <daftykins> gl with it!
  <Azelphur> \o/
  <ali1234> i thought you weren't supposed to use dhcp with ipv6?
  <Azelphur> ali1234: seems to work now, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-26-041110_972x765_scrot.png
  <Azelphur> it was apparmor.
  <mapps> hey
  <mapps> i had trouble getting ipv6 working..using a he.net tunnel..i could acces ipv6 www sites but not ipv6 irc
  <mapps> ;(
  <mapps> anyone got any ideas?
  <mapps> ?:(
  <MartijnVdS> mapps: does ping6 work?
  <MartijnVdS> mapps: which IRC server are you using? is it up?
  <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
  <TwistedLucidity> Unpaid overtime. What's good about it? :-(
  <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: for the employer? Free labour!
  <knightwise> popey: you awake ?
  <knightwise> morning everyone :)
   * knightwise is looking for a minecraft player to write a guestblogpost on knightwise.com
   * brobostigon is a minecraft newbie.
  <knightwise> brobostigon: its cross platform right ? i mean you can play it on mac/pc/linux
  <brobostigon> its java, yes.
  <MartijnVdS> it is
   * TwistedLucidity is wonderiny why the Lenovo support site doesn't work in FF on Kubuntu
  <knightwise> anyone feeling interested to do a blogpost on it ?
  <knightwise> because I don't know anything about the game , it would be kinda idiotic for me to do a writeup
  <knightwise> and I would hate to leave it out of our "game week" series
  <TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Minetest is a F/OSS version of Minecraft http://www.minetest.net/ I really can't comment much further as I've never played Minecraft.
  <knightwise> thanx TwistedLucidity i'll look at the link ! :)
  <brobostigon> i used to run a minetest server also.
   * TwistedLucidity has discovered that Lenovo uses Google Analytics for *every mouse click*. That explains why their site does not work here.
   * TwistedLucidity thinks Lenovo are idiots for doing this
  <MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: probably management wanted more/spiffier graphs
  <TwistedLucidity> Probably, but they'll get mor sales the easier I can get at the parts list!
  <TwistedLucidity> And get this, genuine Lenovo screw & take kit is ~Â£30 from resellers but ~Â£5 direct from Lenovo.
  <TwistedLucidity> Madness
  <MartijnVdS> see, they're not making money on that
  <popey> morning
  <MartijnVdS> they're making sure you use the resellers
  <MartijnVdS> \o popey
  <popey> i am now knightwise
  <MartijnVdS> popey: hi knightwise!
  <TwistedLucidity> Ah, but I intend to buy more.
  <Myrtti> popey: did you order the herb salt?
  <popey> not yet
  <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNLcwqUOXfQ <--
  <Myrtti> (not related)
  <Myrtti> (a lot)
   * popey wonders what whenever he visits a steam page it's in spanish
  <popey> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=218631926
  <popey> http://imgur.com/vQRiUrx
  <MartijnVdS> popey: do you have cookies for their domain? Maybe it's set to spanish in there
  <MartijnVdS> popey: maybe you can select the language in a preference screen and store it in your profile somehow?
  <ali1234> that happened to me before
  <ali1234> you just have to switch language back to en and it remembers
  <ali1234> happens if you follow a google search result that happens to link to another language page
  <popey> ahh
  <popey> problem is, how do you change language when you're in a language you can't read â»
  <popey> in fact i see no option in http://steamcommunity.com/id/popeydc/edit
  <popey> aha, found it under the top right menu
  <foobarry> is nemo the fish meant to be disabled? one fin seems stunted
  <MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes, it's mentioned in the movie several times
  <MartijnVdS> he has a weird fin
  <foobarry> http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/
  <foobarry> You can also use Inception to elevate privileges on (almost) any machine you have physical access to.
  <Seeker`> popey: why are you looking at a unicomp keyboard specifically
   * penguin42 removes a very clean 5p piece from the drier
  <Laney> probably worth about 10p now
  <TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Has it shrunk, maybe it 10p before it went in the drier?
  <penguin42> haha cold have been
   * Laney knows someone who bought 10p for Â£1 because it was extremely shiny
  <penguin42> Laney: Please introduce me to them
  <foobarry> i have some snake oil for them
  <popey> Seeker`: i want a keyboard which is clacky like the model m, but has a super key and a nipple
  <penguin42> 'Excuse me, but can I buy your nipple?'
  <popey> as I'm off to florida next week I may order one and get it shipped to co-worker who lives there
  <penguin42> popey: wth would you want a full size keyboard with a nipple?
  <popey> why would i not?
  <Seeker`> because you'd use a mouse instead? :P
  <penguin42> well the only point in nipples seems to be to provide a very compact pointing device on laptops where you don't have the room for a mouse
  <popey> mice are for losers
  <popey> and gamers
  <popey> that is not the case
  <popey> there are multiple reasons why nipple > mouse
  <popey> (and some cases where mouse > nipple)
   * penguin42 has never liked nipples; always prefer the trackpads
  <foobarry> dell inverted ones are nice
  <popey> I do have a mouse on both desktop and laptop but almost never use them
  <popey> only use mice for gaming, and even then rarely
  <Seeker`> I'm using a "Das Keyboard" which I love, but it does'nt have the nipple
  <popey> having a middle button on a thinkpad keyboard also is a winner for scrolling
  <penguin42> (Note, don't bother phoning Lloyds at the moment - it's >10min wait for an adviser)
  <shauno> interesting read foobarry.  I gotta admit to a little smugness reading that OSX already mitigates it
  <penguin42> it's odd, this story was doing the rounds a few years ago - I'd thought there was some basic fix that went in back then
  <penguin42> but fundamentally the only fix is to need user confirm of any hot plug
  <shauno> it seems apple's fix is to disable the functionality while the screen's locked, which seems like a sane compromise to me
  <penguin42> nod
  <foobarry> even thru display port?
  <foobarry> id like to try this when i get well again/have time
  <penguin42> I think you mean thunderbolt not display port
  <foobarry> either or
  <penguin42> in which case I suspect they'll disable firewire interface on it, but I doubt they'll stop a dma attack via pci-e
  <penguin42> foobarry: I don't think there's much nasty you can do on display prot
  <penguin42> port
  <shauno> it seems the CVE specifically addresses the firewire dma, so fw over tb should be the same; but no idea about pci-e dma
  <penguin42> I suspect the thunderbolt interfaces to have an iommu or the like, but not sure - e.g. if you hot plugged say something that pretended to be a SATA controller or a video card onto the thunderbolt port it might be able to DMA from anywhere
  <penguin42> but firewire is just so much easier because you can mount the attack from a laptop with firewire
  <foobarry> what about powered on machines with a boot loader password like truecypt?
  <penguin42> make no difference
  <foobarry> its pre boot
  <penguin42> preboot it's harder
  <penguin42> but I'd insert some extra code at that point that stores the passphrase entered and transmits it to the evil person
  <penguin42> then walk away and wait for the user to type their passphrase
  <shauno> on mine it seems it's not available at that stage because I have a firmware password
  <penguin42> yeh that's a good thing to have
  <shauno> I think on most machines there's little concern at that stage because there's no drivers loaded yet.  although efi can make that a bit murky (eg, I do have firewire drivers at efi)
  <penguin42> shauno: Still, an interesting question if it has enabled expresscard/thunderbolt/firewire at that point - I wouldn't be too surprised if it's initialised expresscard at that point
  <shauno> it seems it's mostly interesting that you can use it to hit a system that's up, and leave it up.  that's quite sneaky
  <penguin42> nod
  <penguin42> machine left at screensaver or in powersave
  <shauno> right - you open my laptop, you get a lock screen
  <shauno> hm, that civclicker .. zombies are kinda overpowered
  <penguin42> haha you must have gone on for a bit longer - after about 5 hours yesterday I got my life back
  <shauno> 12 hour shifts beg for such distractions
  <shauno> but as soon as I figured out that the 'underworld' religion lets you raise the dead and use them as regular workers - but they don't count towards housing or food costs
  <shauno> I starved every last worker.  I now have a population of zero, with nearly 7 million zombies
  <penguin42> haha
  <penguin42> much more useful than cats
  <shauno> whenever you need more workers, just send them to war against anyone.  win or lose, you'll still end up with enough corpses to make a net gain
  <penguin42> you might want to report that as a bug :-)
  <shauno> the other catch that makes them overpowered is that the cost doesn't scale.  living workers get more expensive every time you buy them.  zombies are fixed at 100 piety
  <shauno> it doesn't seem to count zombies against population though.  so I peaked at 'small town', and now have a 'thorp' (the smallest settlement size) with 7 million residents
  <penguin42> but are you 'overcrowded'?
  <shauno> nowhere close, that's buildings vs land size, not population
  <shauno> and I have a whole tonne of land acquired from raiding
  <shauno> the only downside I've found from this tactic, is that there's no such thing as a happy zombie, so you're capped at 'content'
  <penguin42> but does anything bad happen when your population is content?
  <penguin42> and I guess your zombies don't get ill so you don't need apothecaries
  <shauno> doesn't seem so.  I think there's a production bonus for being happier?  but I pretty much have a chinese labour market, I don't need production bonuses
  <penguin42> can you use zombies as clerics?
  <shauno> yes.  I pretty much have to, since piety is required to raise more dead
  <penguin42> yeh that's what I was thinking
  <shauno> (although they also gain piety from deaths, so mass-murder is also a valid tactic)
  <penguin42> you should be a Daily Mail headline righter
  <penguin42> writer
  <shauno> that actually crossed my mind during an attack.  the status log had "barbarians killed an unemployed"
  <Myrtti> I wonder if it's possible that my laptop wifi interferes with the wifi of my Nexus 5?
  <foobarry> run wifi analyser
  <foobarry> to check how busy the channels are
  <foobarry> and have your neighbours had a baby recently?
  <foobarry> Bletchley is currently in the throes of a bitter dispute, between owners who want to create a brand new visitors centre, and volunteers who have been working on the site for years.'
  <penguin42> who are the owners?
  <foobarry> dunno, haven't watched the bbc report
  <foobarry> the people who raised 4M moneys
  <foobarry> to save it
  <foobarry> btw... http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/evil-maid-goes-after-truecrypt.html
  <mapps> ah MartijnVdS i went to sleep sorry
  <mapps> <MartijnVdS> mapps: does ping6 work?
  <mapps> <MartijnVdS> mapps: which IRC server are you using? is it up?
  <mapps> but no and no but i can nslookup an ipv6 host
  <shauno> so if you, eg, "ping -c 1 2a03:2880:2110:df07:face:b00c:0:1" computer says no?
  <mapps> yea it says no
  <mapps> but i can do like nslookup iov6.google.com ?
  <mapps> and it returns the ipv6
  <mapps> this is using an he.net ipv6 tunnel
  <shauno> it sounds like you don't have v6 but your nameserver does
  <mapps> ahh
  <mapps> of course
  <mapps> because im using the google ns
  <mapps> hmm
  <mapps> this was on windows7 too...and now its a bit of a mess not sure how to remove the tunnel etc and readd
  <mapps> maybe i should leave that and try setting it up on my ubuntumachine
  <brobostigon> if i have 'hg clone' a repo, how do i update said clone for any changes?
  <mapps> no idea:D
  <brobostigon> git i know, but mercurial, not a clue.
  <mapps> hey shauno  just remebered i can reach ipv6.google and the ipv6 test says im ipv6 enabled?
  <mapps> geez how can people pay these rents..house few doors down Â£1725 a month
  <penguin42> mapps: For what size house?
  <mapps> 4bed
  <mapps> feels like a lot to me
  <mapps> i d struggle to pay it on my own
  <shauno> I honestly wouldn't know where to start on windows.  especially since I think 7 should try to do toredo out-of-the-box, which will confuse me hugely
  <penguin42> mapps: a 1 bed flat is about 700 here I think, so a few people sharing would be cheaper than 3 of those - but probably less space than 3 1 bed flats?
  <mapps> im not sure its 4 bed with a dining room/lounge/kitchen and a really big garden
  <mapps> wheres here
  <mapps> and i was on about paying it alone i dont wanna rent with others!
  <mapps> anyone watch Helix?
  <an0n432O> hi
  <mapps> hi an0key_
  <mapps> an0n432O,
  <an0n432O> hi mapps
  <mapps> pretty cold outside brrr!
  <penguin421> stay in this nice warm channel
  <mapps> ;]
  <an0n432O> yeah
  <an0n432O> def
  <daftykins> it's going down to the nippy lows of 4 deg C on the island tonight!
  <daftykins> :)
  <an0n432O> i thought iy would never get cold
  <an0n432O> it
  <mapps> heh
  <mapps> well id rather it was a tad warme
  <mapps> going from inside-> outsides not nice
  <mapps> :(
  <an0n432O> it has been though, unusually
  <mapps> the walk to work || walk to gym ==  walk as fast as possible
  <mapps> :D
  <an0n432O> u n/s?
  <an0n432O> i had to get up at 6 and walk a mile
  <mapps> n/s?
  <an0n432O> north/south uk?
  <mapps> ahh
  <mapps> midlands now
  <mapps> from south originally
  <an0n432O> 1/2 and 1/2 then but colder than here
  <mapps> often get told how i sound 'posh' or 'gay' as some say one fool even said i put my accent on
  <mapps> :D
  <daftykins> i have my Guernsey voice and my England voice ;)
  <mapps> i just have my normal voice
  <mapps> lol
  <an0n432O> whats wrong with being gay? its 2014
  <mapps> i couldnt manage to put on a fake accent and maintain it 24/7..thatd be pretty tough no?
  <mapps> to keep it up and not slip up
  <an0n432O> yeah gurnsey is a bit posh
  <an0n432O> yeah
  <mapps> didnt say there was an0n432O  but im not :)
  <an0n432O> i know
  <daftykins> lol Guernsey's not posh
  <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuR5YMyfeNI
  <an0n432O> i mean whoever says your gay
  <an0n432O> the accent is i mean
  <an0n432O> whats that?
  <Myrtti> daftykins: oi
  <Myrtti> daftykins: recommend me a reputable webshop for the blue jumpers
  <Myrtti> something that sells products not knitted by tiny hands in Bangladesh
  <an0n432O> directhex, u a hex programmer? i just discovered i hate machine code and assembler
  <directhex> no. i like c# though
  <an0n432O> ok
  <an0n432O> i can cope with c. i just tried assembler, fuckin nasty
  <mapps> c/c++ is ok
  <bigcalm> !ohmy | an0n432O
  <lubotu3> an0n432O: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
  <mapps> assembler..hm i never find decent assembler guides/references
  <an0n432O> yeah its ok
  <an0n432O> its not really used anymore is it?
  <mapps> well uhh i guess not mainstream but sometimes itd be useful
  <an0n432O> yeah
  <directhex> inline assembly is used in plenty of c projects
  <an0n432O> a happy medium between basic and assembler
  <an0n432O> there just too much maths in it
  <mapps> whats that mean directhex  asm in c?!
  <directhex> mapps, yeah. C source with scraps of asm inside
  <an0n432O> c is a higher level language than assembler
  <directhex> pretty common, especially in JITters and interpreters
  <mapps> yea
  <mapps> asm is lower level of coz
  <daftykins> Myrtti: err, me? not familiar with any i'm afraid :( unless i shipped you a true 'Guernsey' :D
  <Myrtti> awwwww
  <an0n432O> its a horrible language. adding/dividing,etc in 2's,4's and eights,etc
  <mapps> ;]
  <an0n432O> using registers for everything, writing lines of code just to add up 10 and 5
  <an0n432O> evil
  <mapps> tvs so rubbish
  <an0n432O> ill stick to c and basic
  <an0n432O> yeah, do c4 or bbc ever make any new programmes?
  <mapps> rubbish ones
  <mapps> like Miranda
  <mapps> ugh
  <an0n432O> i reckon theyve gone skint cos no one pays a tv licence anymore, they just watch over the internet
  <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: just got out the bath [fwiw] - well done for the interception earlier on
  <penguin421> directhex: Although most JITs don't bother with the asm - they just spit machine code direct into memory
  <daftykins> Myrtti: oh wait you actually did mean a real Guernsey
  <daftykins> Myrtti: they're only locally made as it's a high skill job afaik
  <daftykins> there was a news item the other day about how high in demand they are, but so few people locally can make them
  <mapps> whats this?
  <daftykins> a Guernsey
  <an0n432O> could anyone here recommend a super fast, super quiet server?
  <MartijnVdS> an0n432O: a CPS somewhere
  <daftykins> any PC can be a server, depends what you want to run
  <MartijnVdS> VPS*
  <penguin421> yeh, a server somewhere else is always the quietest :-)
  <MartijnVdS> well, the host it runs on is probably *LOUD*, but you won't hear it from home ;)
  <mapps> lol
  <an0n432O> its for my room
  <an0n432O> so i need to get some sleep
  <an0n432O> i want a proper deicated server
  <an0n432O> webhosting, etc
  <MartijnVdS> an0n432O: how powerful do you want it?
  <an0n432O> sick
  <MartijnVdS> because fanless ones exist
  <an0n432O> yes thats it
  <MartijnVdS> an0n432O: http://linitx.com/product/jetway-jbc362f362600-intel-atom-16ghz-barebone-system/13607
  <MartijnVdS> an0n432O: just add an SSD and some memory
  <an0n432O> cool
  <an0n432O> how much?
  <MartijnVdS> it's an 1.6GHz atom, so it's not a speed monster.. but it should be fine for most home-server purposes
  <MartijnVdS> an0n432O: you can buy it on that site, or maybe you can find it cheaper somewhere lese
   * MartijnVdS hasn't checked
  <penguin421> an0n432O: I got an MSI C847MS  motherboard and put it in an old chassis; it's a dual core 1.1GHz celeron
  <Myrtti> daftykins: well, I suppose an article like this doesn't make it any easier ;-) http://www.taloussanomat.fi/harrastukset/2014/01/26/ma-seuduilla-nailla-oon-tunnettu-kalamiesneule/20141168/139
  <penguin421> an0n432O: It's fanless, and I put it in a case with a PSU that's got a temperature controlled fan that hardly ever goes around, and with an SSD it's almost always silent
  <penguin421> an0n432O: But, in the end it's only a 1.1GHz celeron
  <brobostigon> anyone built apache wave before?
  <an0n432O> looks noisy
  <an0n432O> id like a blade server
  <SuperEngineer> while every body's on the hardware part of their brain stores... anyone know if DDR2 RAM can still be got obtained [from a *reliable* source?]
  <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: sure
  <penguin421> an0n432O: Yeh but blade servers are normally only slightly quieter than a 747 engine
  <SuperEngineer> oooh!
  <penguin421> SuperEngineer: Yeh
  <an0n432O> no good then
  <penguin421> SuperEngineer: crucial.com has it
  <an0n432O> id rather not build one
  <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://tweakers.net/categorie/545/geheugen-intern/producten/#filter:q1YqSExPDc6sSlWyMjQw0FEqKMpMTvXNzFOyAnKKC1KT3TJzSlKLipWsqpUMjc1BVFlijpJVtJKpUmxtbS0A
  <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ;)
  <an0n432O> that jetway looks noisy
  <MartijnVdS> an0n432O: it's fanless.
  <an0n432O> ok
  <an0n432O> cool
   * SuperEngineer checks out various links...
  <an0n432O> id like something a bit more powerful though
  <penguin421> SuperEngineer: http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listmodule/DDR2/list.html   or go to their motherboard/model checker thing
  <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you need something like that tweakers.net/pricewatch for the UK ;)
  <daftykins> Myrtti: seriously though do you want to buy one? :>
  <Myrtti> daftykins: mabbe
  <SuperEngineer> thanks MartijnVdS
  <Myrtti> but before anything I need pizza
  <SuperEngineer> & penguin421
   * Myrtti goes to microwave
   * penguin421 reckons a gehugen-intern is RAM
  <MartijnVdS> penguin421: memory-internal
  <MartijnVdS> but it lists mostly Dutch online stores
  <penguin421> MartijnVdS: The picture was better :-)
  <penguin421> MartijnVdS: There is a sight like that which lists many EU sites - but I can't remember it's name - it had 3 or 4 UK ones on but mostly German
  <MartijnVdS> penguin421: http://uk.hardware.info/pricecomparer ?
  <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I *do* like the way way crucial works.... thanks a mil
  <SuperEngineer> ...though surprised at price... [Â£53 tax incl.]
  <SuperEngineer> [for 4GB]
  <penguin421> SuperEngineer: DDR2 is now more expensive
  <SuperEngineer> penguin421: yup... just found out!  ;)
  <SuperEngineer> ... if only the "don't waste the planet" part of my brain would let me a new pooter :)
  <SuperEngineer> *let me buy
  <SuperEngineer> [still that + graphics card upgrade is still a cheap option.... especially as current pooter only has a prob with *1* Steam game - rest of my pooter's world is a good 1]
  <maps|work> hello
  <shauno> ugh, try buying ecc ddr2.  that'll make you sadface.
  <daftykins> ECC D:
  <daftykins> madness!
  <maps|work> http://gizmodo.com/meth-in-london-heroin-in-zagreb-the-answer-is-found-i-1508209127
  <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
  <popey> yo
  <popey>  3283 root      20   0 8539064 5.377g 243172 S  12.9 34.6 326:31.88 Xorg
  <popey> grrr
  <diplo> Still having xorg issues then popey  :(
  <maps|work> ;[
  <popey> yeah, luckily it's reproduced by others so no just me
  <popey> Seems April 5 2010 was the last time my viglen was booted
  <webpigeon> o.O
  <brobostigon> ello webpigeon
  <webpigeon> Hello brobostigon :)
  <bigcalm> popey: you got it booted, cor
  <bigcalm> popey: now what? :P
  <brobostigon> webpigeon: didnt know you hung out here, :)
  <webpigeon> brobostigon: I'm about, I just don't talk much
  <brobostigon> webpigeon: ah.
  <maps|work> ello
  <popey> bigcalm: reformat
  <bigcalm> popey: ah, and then skip?
  <popey> no, but it's not well.
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-19
  <diddledan> random user in #haxe thought that reinstalling their IDE would fix a compile issue with their code
  <diddledan> don't you love how windows users do that?!
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> turn it off and on again!
  <diddledan> step one in diagnosis: reainstall all the things
  <diddledan> --a
  <daftykins> nuke it from orbit
  <diddledan> it's nuts
  <daftykins> weird one in #ubuntu earlier, some users getting their graphics device show up as vmware due to using that galium version or something (i don't have a clue what i'm talking about on that front)
  <daftykins> so suddenly you start thinking they're using a VM and lying to you, but newp
  <diddledan> o_O
  <diddledan> really?!
  <daftykins> *nod*
  <diddledan> it reports a vmware card even when not virutal?!
  <daftykins> hang on might still have the link
  <daftykins> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=175164
  <diddledan> that really is wonky
  <diddledan> oh. permissions. the user wasn't allowed to access the hardware
  <diddledan> this is why x starts as root on most systems
  <diddledan> donno why he was running it under a user account manually
  <diddledan> oh, that haxe user just uttered: "I'm in the process of re installing again, even though I can see everything was installed to the right path."
  <diddledan> doing it _again_ because doing it once didn't work!
  <daftykins> lmao
  <daftykins> diddledan: you must share this pearl of wisdom: "what is the definition of insanity? doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result!"
  <diddledan> flogging a dead donky
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> I suppose probability might come into it - the law of averages suggests that if he does it enough times he'll end up with shakespear
  <daftykins> but there are no monkeys?
  <diddledan> oh, good point
  <daftykins> unless.. dan! you're not being rude to users again are you? :)
  <diddledan> hmm
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> me? rude? nevar!
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> hmm just fed the next Sopranos bluray into my xbox
  <daftykins> i don't really trust slot loaders
  <daftykins> i remember getting one and seeing the little manual say "no heart shaped discs"
  <daftykins> i've never even seen one O_O
  <mapp> morning all
  <daftykins> o/
  <daftykins> just got into bed here
  <daftykins> shift change!
  <mapp> heh
  <mapp> i gotta get some sleep soon
  <mapp> flight at 2
  <daftykins> \o/
  <daftykins> bed for me, laters \o
  <mapp> cya mate
  <mapp> none of the other night owls upo?
  <knightwise> morning everyone
  <mapp> morn
  <knightwise> hey mapp , how are you today
  <mapp> notbad gotta get a few hrs s;ee[ on a bit
  <mapp> sleep
  <mapp> fight at 2;30;]
  <knightwise> You on your phone ?
  <mapp> nah netbook but watching tv..why because of my typos:P
  <mapp> heh
  <knightwise> yep :)
  <mapp> ;]
  <knightwise> grr , been trying to get retropi working on my raspberry pie for days now
  <knightwise> somehow it doesn't seem to recognise the controller in the game.
  <knightwise> documentation is poor , instructional video's are ancient.
  <knightwise> been puting a lot of time in it so far . Still no luck.
  <knightwise> gmblhhhh$
  <knightwise> Monday ...
  <opione> back
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <knightwise> good morning brobostigon
  <brobostigon> good morning knightwise
  <christel> morning brobostigon, knightwise :)
  <knightwise> hey christel
  <knightwise> how are you on this gloomy monday
  <christel> not too bad! could have done with an extra hour in bed! yourself? :)
  <knightwise> same :) working from home today , so I kept the PJ's on as long as possible
  <knightwise> Currently snuggle up with a book in the dark for about half an hour before I get ready for work :)
  <brobostigon> morning christel :)
  <knightwise> Me + coffee + Ebook + darkness = 30 minutes of bloss
  <knightwise> bliss
   * brobostigon points out the window, and sees bright blue skies.
   * knightwise has snow 
  <brobostigon> :)
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <knightwise> hey davmor2
  <brobostigon> morning davmor2
  <knightwise> hmmm.. raspberry pi is misbehaving
   * knightwise is gonna kick it into the dmz and make it think about what its done
  <MartijnVdS> knightwise: "it"? a windows machine?
  <knightwise> Raspbian running pi
  <MartijnVdS> what did it do wrong
  <knightwise> retropi and my controller wont play nice
  <knightwise> documentation is crap
  <MartijnVdS> what's retropi?
  <zmoylan-pi> bad documentation... open source... you don't day :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> *say
  <MartijnVdS> some open source stuff has awesome docs
  <zmoylan-pi> those are people reading the code :-)
  <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: have you *seen* the coreutils code? I prefer the man pages ;)
  <knightwise> I'm trying to turn it into a retro gaming machine
  <knightwise> Retropi = Raspberry pi + emulation station
  <awilkins> An emulator distro
  <awilkins> Drop ROMs and disk images into it, pow, instant gaming
  <awilkins> (for given values of "instant" that involve making SDCard images and SSHing files)
  <knightwise> and getting the friggin controllers working (my current issue)
  <awilkins> Are we talking something like a std. XBox / PC controller?
  <knightwise> correct . I got me a PS3 usb controller just to make it standard
  <Laney> today is will-nest-installer-keep-his-third-appointment day
  <Laney> place your bets
  <MartijnVdS> oh that sounds cool
  <MartijnVdS> Laney: maybe he has some Yodel packages to deliver first
  <Laney> SORRY YOU WERE OUT
  <MartijnVdS> "But you installed my thermostat" "Yeah but you weren't in a state to accept packages"
  <knightwise> "in a state" as in "wearing pants when you opened the door ? "
  <zmoylan-pi> wouldn't you need a kempston joystick for retro pi? :-)
  <knightwise> it would be cool zmoylan-pi
  <knightwise> http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2634287974241518.JPG.19313260267924226
  <knightwise> I got me one of these too
  <zmoylan-pi> and if you were nekkid when they arrived to deliver a package you were technically 'out' :-P
  <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: what if you're closeted though.. then you're never "out"
  <knightwise> out of the closet ?
   * knightwise is out of line
  <MartijnVdS> Out of space
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Tin Can Day! :-D
  <knightwise> morning peeps
  <popey> hello again
  <knightwise> hey popey :)
  <knightwise> happy monday to you
  <zmoylan-pi> happy... monday...?
   * zmoylan-pi looks askance at knightwise 
  <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: he's Belgian. They don't know better :P
  <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: waves pink fluffy unicorn at zmoylan-pi
   * zmoylan-pi shoots unicorn with nerf and mounts head on wall
   * knightwise takes out garden hose to flood MartijnVdS 's country
  <knightwise> Fact : Some dutch cities are further below the waterline then the maximum diving depth of the first submarines :)
  <MartijnVdS> And that's why we built a system of interlocking walls, to keep back the water ;)
  <MartijnVdS> also, we check them a lot
  <zmoylan-pi> a wall that keeps water out also keeps water in
  <zmoylan-pi> they're funny that way :-)
  <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: don't put water in then ;)
  <awilkins> Why use a garden hose when a few pounds of strategically placed dynamite will do?
   * zmoylan-pi shakes fist at clouds
  <knightwise> Dutch people are not like pot noodles
  <knightwise> don't add water to make them tasty
  <zmoylan-pi> might make them testy
   * knightwise thinks we should get off MartijnVdS 's case :)
  <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: give me back my pink fluffy unicorn head !
  <awilkins> knightwise, a quick check of Rule 34 proves you wrong as predicted
   * zmoylan-pi hands back knightwise's fluffy unicorn head on the nice wooden plaque
  <knightwise> awilkins: thanx for that :)
  <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: at least now I don't have to feed it anymore
  <zmoylan-pi> it must be hard to fund a store that stocks unicorn food
  <knightwise> Its even harder to find the rainbow-pooper-scoopers
  <zmoylan-pi> i'd have though unicorn poop sold on ebay for a bundle
  <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: my business plan .. right there !
  <knightwise> soooo weird .. but pretty soothing to listen to http://youarelistening.to/numbers
  <davmor2> JamesTait: Oh you'll never go to heaven, rpt, In a bake bean tin, rpt, cause a baked bean tin, rpt, got baked beans in, rtp :)
  <Laney> fancy that, he did turn up
  <JamesTait> davmor2, oh you'll never go to heaven in a baked bean tin, cos a baked bean tin's got baked beans in....
  <JamesTait> Lalalala
   * JamesTait hums along to himself
  <davmor2> oh.... I ain't gonna cry, I ain't gonna cry my lord, I ain't gonna cry my lord
  <mapp> buh bye
  <mapp> gotta go to the airport now
  <mapp> assuming i can get a taxi:D
  <zmoylan-pi> are they in season? :-)
  <mapp> well
  <mapp> it's hard to get one here sometimes
  <mapp> called one at the border on friday..told 5mins..never turns up!
  <zmoylan-pi> ah, you called interdimensional taxis. always on a different plane
  <MartijnVdS> *groan*
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <popey> moin
  <daubers> is it?
  <bashrc> morning bigcalm
  <bigcalm> It's close enough
  <daubers> I suppose monday is the morning of the week ahead
  <popey> hey, cpu people
  <popey> i know what socket my mobo has, is there a way to see what the "best" cpu I can put in it is?
  <MartijnVdS> popey: wikipedia has lists of CPUs by socket
  <MartijnVdS> popey: or if you're up for some parsing Dutch, tweakers.net/pricewatch -> go to the CPU ("processoren") category, then select the socket in the sidebar
  <MartijnVdS> that + Intel's ARK
  <popey> hmmm
  <popey> it has a sandybridge i7 2600 in it
  <popey> according to wikipedia I could go to ivy bridge
  <MartijnVdS> popey: check the mainboard manual as well, some never get the newer bios required for newer CPU support
  <popey> ah, true
  <MartijnVdS> i7-3770k is a good one.. I have its successor (4770k) and it's *FAST*
  <bigcalm> i7-4500U - don't suppose there's any point in trying to change a laptop's CPU?
  <davmor2> popey: mobo instruction book?
  <popey> haha
  <popey> no idea where that is!
  <davmor2> popey: pdf is on the mobo manufactures site
  <zmoylan-pi> get it online quicker
  <popey> yeah. dunno if it will mentioned CPUs made after the mobo tho :)
  <zmoylan-pi> just make sure you know what revision your bios is.  just in case
  <davmor2> popey: it has to tell you what it supports or you can put in the wrong chip :)
  <davmor2> popey: quick look at my board in google threw up this site http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/
  <ali1234> that's a BGA package, it's almost certainly soldered
  <ali1234> i7-4500U that is
  <cocoa117> does anyone know what is the UK keyboard map for preseeding during a PXE setup?
  <cocoa117> the line "d-i keyboard-configuration/layoutcode string uk" seems don't work
  <davmor2> cocoa117: try EN_GB maybe?
  <cocoa117> davmor2, tried that, i thought that is locale settings
  <bigcalm> Morning intrbiz
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: how goes the office? managed to find somewhere to park?
  <bigcalm> intrbiz: it's cold here. We've even had snow (not a lot though)
  <bigcalm> Yeah, parked at Abbey Foregate and walked in. It's fairly cheap at Â£2.70 for the day
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: snow today?
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: not had any snow here today, a little yesterday which didn't stick
  <bigcalm> intrbiz: considering parting up by the cinema for free, but I don't know if they enforce a time restriction
  <bigcalm> Yeah, didn't stick here as well, darn cold though
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: i've parked before at cinema / asda for a day without hassel, not sure if I'd do it regularly
  <bigcalm> I'm going to be knackered this evening
  <bigcalm> Driving straight to badminton from here. Wont be eating before. Think anybody will be up for eating afterwards?
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: i would be, depends who else shows
  <bashrc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZeUntdObCA
  <bigcalm> intrbiz: good lad :)
  <daftykins> oy vey
  <diddledan> allo daftykins
   * diddledan watching the video that bashrc posted a while ago
  <diddledan> about ipmi
  <diddledan> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZeUntdObCA)
  <popey> the mjg59 one?
  <popey> was fun. not finished it yet
  <popey> the one about OneRNG was also interesting
  <daftykins> "i can't believe it's not VNC" :D
  <popey> what's the canonical way to make disks sleep on linux?
  <diddledan> power button
  <diddledan> :-p
  <popey> I have 2x4 disk arrays in my server, and often they're idle for extended periods
  <popey> useful
  <diddledan> hdparm can set a timeout I believe
  <popey> ah thats it
  <diddledan> \o/
  <diddledan> I'm awesome!
  <popey> hdparm -B /dev/sda
  <popey>  APM_level      = not supported
  <daftykins> i keep mine spinning 'cause my old man always told me spinning down and up induced wear 0o
  <daftykins> but then i have enterprise level disks / WD Reds now
  <SuperEngineer> This is actually very beautiful & very wise. A little gem of wisdom for download &/or wisdom.  Beautiful words re being old vs being young
  <SuperEngineer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9787964/
  <daftykins> argh it's not window wrapped
  <SuperEngineer> yeah, sorry about that -download & read as text
  <daftykins> seems to prompt for login doing that
  <SuperEngineer> oh boogah! will correct it now
  <popey> right, all set to spin down after 5 mins. lets see how that works out
  <daftykins> 'tis nice that :)
  <popey> wheee, building stuff on my phone
  <daftykins> that'll be a hot potato :)
  <SuperEngineer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9788048/
  <SuperEngineer> try that
  <daftykins> huzzah!
  <popey> its surprisingly not :S
  <popey> oh, balls, only building in one core
  <popey> that was foolish
   * popey considers killing it and adding a -j4
  <popey> hah! that's mnore like it
  <SuperEngineer> popey, permission to go very off topic for a mo, please...
  <SuperEngineer> did you get FreeDOS running as a live USB?
  <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9788067/
  <popey> yes!
  <SuperEngineer> hurumph!
  <popey> used it to update firmware on my hard drives :)
  <popey> zero effort
  <popey> http://chtaube.eu/computers/freedos/bootable-usb/
  <popey> used that
   * SuperEngineer is overcome with jealousy
  <popey> what didnt work for you?
  <SuperEngineer> ..and is now checking out that link. Thanks
  <daftykins> i've also used win98 boot files to make a bootable flash drive for DOS tools
  <SuperEngineer> I used Unetbootin.. it kept failing [on 3 machines] saying it wasn't there... even it was telling me it wasn't there
  <popey> you could fit a lot of old dos games on a 32gb usb stick
  <popey> oh no dont use that
  <popey> just dd it
  <popey> dd if=foo of=/dev/sdX
  <SuperEngineer> yeah... I definitely got the idea that it was not suitable for Unetbootin!
  <popey> could even fit windows 3.1 and loads of silly windows stuff on a stick
   * popey ponders
  <popey> could be fun
  <popey> could be fun to _install_ dos and windows on a laptop actually
  <popey> not done that for a while.
  <SuperEngineer> "FreeDOS prebuilt bootable USB flash drive image"... now why does that seem a more sensible option... lol
  <popey> hehe
  <davmor2> popey: dos and windows 95 or 3.11
  <SuperEngineer> will give it a go - again, thank you
  <popey> dual boot!
  <popey> windows 95 would get owned in seconds
  <popey> although with no wifi driver, might be okay :D
   * popey is tempted
  <davmor2> popey: hahaha
  <davmor2> can't connect to the internet still powned
  <popey> :)
  <MartijnVdS> wheee
   * SuperEngineer installed an old out of support XFCE [Werewolf] derivative on old netbook yesterday.  No wifi needed for intended purpose, so safe, so fast :)
  <MartijnVdS> I was kind of rich for an hour there
  <popey> oh?
  <MartijnVdS> popey: borrowed some money, buying a garage in my appartment building. Money's in escrow now.
  <MartijnVdS> apartment? Dutch uses 2 p's there. We're weird.
  <SuperEngineer> popey, SuperEngineer now has bootable FreeDOS US.  Thank you.
  <SuperEngineer> *USB
  <popey> huzzah!
  <popey> fill it with stuff!
  <MartijnVdS> DOS stuff?
  <SuperEngineer> will do!
  <MartijnVdS> WordPerfect 5.1?
  <MartijnVdS> Norton Commander?
  <SuperEngineer> yeasssss - norton Commander!
   * SuperEngineer into timewarp of real Peter Norton, forgets symantec [ooooo - so pleasant!]
  <zmoylan-pi> laplink3 for serial cable transfers
  <SuperEngineer> considering Sidekick now
  <zmoylan-pi> pkzip 2.04g
  <MartijnVdS> ooh yeah
  <MartijnVdS> Telix!
  <zmoylan-pi> i probably have a copy here if i look :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> dbase iii+
  <zmoylan-pi> lotus 123
  <MartijnVdS> ooh yes
  <zmoylan-pi> qbasic
  <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: nah the full suite - quickbasic 4.5
  <zmoylan-pi> oooh, then qbx 7.1
  <MartijnVdS> "Last stable release: 4.5 - 1988 - 27 years ago"
  <MartijnVdS> thanks wikipedia. Now I feel old
  <zmoylan-pi> they moved to qbx quick basic extended after that
  <SuperEngineer> ...that was also my last stable "release" - proud to say I've never been stable since!  :D
  <MartijnVdS> 8-)
   * MartijnVdS stables SuperEngineer 
  <SuperEngineer> :)
  <SuperEngineer> never thought typing "dir c:" & "dir a:" could make a person so happy
  <zmoylan-pi> there
  <zmoylan-pi> 's a dos web browser iirc
  <zmoylan-pi> archne?
  <diddledan> windows95/dos : cd progra~1
  <diddledan> arachne?
  <diddledan> as in arachnid, spider, web
  <zmoylan-pi> think so, i used it in 90s to get 286 on the web
  <zmoylan-pi> let me look...
  <zmoylan-pi> still going... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachne_(web_browser)
  <SuperEngineer> ...hmmm just tried typing dir staights:   :)
  <SuperEngineer> *straights
  <zmoylan-pi> took 15 minutes to render slashdot page, not bad on 14,400 modem and 286 with 640k ram
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: try again in a vm :-D
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: on an octocore 16GB RAMS uberbeast
  <zmoylan-pi> nah this was a proper 286 with b&w vga card. so even if you plugged in colour monitor you got b&w image :-)
  <diddledan> aye, load the same page on a monster and measure the difference :-p
  <SuperEngineer> Where do I file a FreeDOS bug: need to file a report "FreeDOS has just caused me to book next weekend for digging out my old DOS disks"  ;)
  <popey> \o/ disk spindown working
  <popey> took 30s to ls a directory \o/
  <SuperEngineer> time to go eat - thanks for the help folks [he says sneaking FreeDOS USB into pocket] ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> freedos on usb... just to annoy the nsa and their automatic tools :-)
  <shauno> bah.  you know it's too cold to type when bash complains it can't find 'fimd' or 'greg'
  <diddledan> I hate greg
  <diddledan> he's an evil SOB
  <shauno> I have no heating and it's been quite chilly lately.  of course, my response has been to stick an arduino in the kitchen to keep track of how cold :)
  <lopta> I just got into a conversation with one of the young chaps at work. Had to explain to him all about the Domesday Project.
  <zmoylan-pi> why do you have no heating?
  <diddledan> heating ftw
  <daftykins> ^
  <daftykins> got down to between 4 and 6 deg C here, house dips to ~12 and becomes pretty nasty
  <daftykins> last night i took the wireless thermostat up to the bedroom so i could fire it up before getting out XD
  <daftykins> i can't use a program because i'm too inconsistent
  <diddledan> teehee
  <diddledan> I should put some socks on - naked feet causes heatloss
  <daftykins> indeed!
  <daftykins> ugh, another monday game night ruined due to Microsoft
  <diddledan> grr
  <daftykins> they can't keep their damned online services up for 5 minutes
  <diddledan> what did they do this time?
  <diddledan> aah
  <diddledan> their online services aren't
  <daftykins> basically i can play games but my friends list doesn't work, so i can't actually play them with my two pals
  <shauno> zmoylan-pi: because oil heating is normal here, and oil heating means that lazy people don't know they're running out until they run out
  <diddledan> \o/
  <daftykins> =]
  <daftykins> good times
  <shauno> it was 5.2 degrees when I woke up.  5.2 *indoors*
  <diddledan> ouch
  <daftykins> O_O
  <daftykins> foreigheit or centius? :>
  <shauno> lol.  degrees Censible, not degrees Freedom
  <daftykins> good lawd
  <daftykins> i thought my place had no insulation
  <shauno> well, it's better than last winter.  I got my kitchen window fixed so it closes :)
  <diddledan> lol
  <daftykins> D:
  <diddledan> small steps
  <daftykins> you gotta go to work to warm up
  <shauno> I just shut myself in the living room with the fireplace
  <shauno> the rest of the house is a barren wasteland
  <zmoylan-pi> current external temp 1c here
  <zmoylan-pi> about 14c internally, usually have a clock with temp on it but it's grown legs at some point
   * zmoylan-pi imagines shauno with a barrel with open fire in it in his room for some reason :-)
  <diddledan> I'm not sure an underpass counts as "his room"
  <m0nkey_> lol
  <zmoylan-pi> as long as he has proper fingerless gloves and bobble hat he'll be grand
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-20
  <maps> yo
  <maps> ;]
  <daftykins> 'lo
  <mapps> hey dude
  <mapps> so my nexus7 issue looks to have been simply a case of the oplug borked
  <mapps> using my dads nexus7 plug i guess any plug with usb would work but its chargin
  <mapps> ;]
  <daftykins> they vary a lot in amp ratings these days
  <mapps> o
  <mapps> i thought all can be used for any device..they donmt even give you the plug most times..just the USB cable
  <daftykins> chap i know is insistent on keeping around all these rubbish old 500mA ones, when most devices want 1.2-2.1A
  <mapps> what were the 500mA ones used for
  <daftykins> earlier smartphones
  <mapps> o
  <daftykins> actually i might be thinking of USB spec there, definitely seen 800mA - 1A though
  <shauno> 500mA used to be the usb standard, so wall-warts were built for 500 because why would you want anything else?
  <ali1234> i was playing around with an old nicad charger earlier... 60mA trickle charging
  <mapps> hm i got a motorola moto g dual sim phone so i could use ee and gib tel both nano sims..the guide says not to use sim adapters..id planned on using nano -> micro adapters..motoraol site says any damage through using adapters is your own fault --- so guess thats why
  <mapps> and hopefully it would work?
  <ali1234> of course it will work
  <daftykins> ali1234: haha, weren't all the batteries dead?
  <mapps> ;D
  <mapps> thought so
  <ali1234> the worst that will happen is it might get stuck in the slot
  <ali1234> then just remove it carefully ie don't jam a screwdriver in it
  <mapps> yea
  <ali1234> daftykins: that's what i'm trying to figure out
  <daftykins> huzzah!
  <ali1234> nicads only wear out through use though, afaik
  <ali1234> unlike lithium batteries
  <shauno> usually what they actually mean by that is that they don't support it.  if there's any odd behaviour they'll blame your adaptor first
  <shauno> (I mean, they're literally plastic shims.  it's hard to go wrong, and if you do, it's your fault)
  <mapps> anyone recommend some good linux like magazine ..read a few of fullcirclemagazine and follow urban penguin video guides..nothing in particular just general
  <mapps> ugh feel like hayfever's coming on
  <mapps> but surely not..not tyhe right season for it
  <diddledan> flu
  <mapps> nah it happenms everytime i go to my dads
  <mapps> he reckons its the grass..but seems unlikely]
  <diddledan> he smokes grass? :-p
  <mapps> no:P
  <mapps> the grass in the garden heh
   * diddledan trollin
  <mapps> ;]
  <mapps> 2 broke girls..state of affairs then a few hrs sleep probably
  <diddledan> I'm watching leverage
  <mapps> what ep?
  <mapps> i got a bit fedup with leverage tbh
  <diddledan> I'm up to s1e11 - the juror job
  <mapps> In the year 2043, 93.6% has been wiped out by a virus released by "Army of the Twelve Monkeys". James Cole uses a dangerous and untested form of time travel to return to 2015 in an effort to change the fate of the human race. With the help of Cassandra Railly, a virologist, and Jennifer Goines, a math genius with mental issues, Cole will attempt to track down and destroy the source of the
  <mapps> deadly virus.
  <mapps> hm
  <mapps> what to do]
  <diddledan> mapps: was it you asking about linux mags? I subscribe to "linux voice" which started off the back of a kickstarter-esque drive to fund their first year's cycle - they're just entering their second year now. it's the former editorial team that left linux format a while ago
  <mapps> ye
  <mapps> REMEMBER hearing of that..any good?
  <diddledan> they are, yeah - plus their appeal to foss freedoms
  <diddledan> they release their articles within 9 months under creative commons licenses
  <mapps> cool
  <mapps> still not got my nexus7 to turn on..using a diff charger and the backlight comes on..sio id assume its charging? but cant get it to turn on..tried hard reset..power and vol +_
  <diddledan> grr
  <mapps> i remember reading it takes hours to charge up after a nexus7 is drained down to 0
  <mapps> but my other charger mnusn';t be workming tried it with my moto g phone..doesnt charge, using my dads nexus7 charger it does...but yea still nothing
  <mapps> dunno whether to keep trying hard reset or leave it plugged in fora few more hours?
  <diddledan> try holding volume up and down along with power button for about 30 seconds
  <mapps> vol down? thought only vol up does anything?
  <diddledan> both volume up and down
  <diddledan> together
  <mapps> loadsa posts about this issue eh]
  <mapps> people say about the battery and connectors coming lose..but surely if that was the case when i plug the charger in the backlight wouldnt come on?
  <diddledan> yeah, I _think_ that the battery is probably a requirement for any power to work
  <mapps> yea but i mean would it come on just due to mains
  <mapps> the backjlight?
  <knightwise> morning everyone :)
  <diddledan> allo
  <Myrtti_> time of day
  <diddledan> Myrtti: bedtime?
  <Myrtti> nah, crochet time
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <diddledan> m00
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cheese Lovers Day! :-D
  <diddledan> cheese, gromit?
  <brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
  <bigcalm> !ping
  <lubotu3> pong!
  <popey> yo
  <MartijnVdS> yoyo
  <popey> ahhh, so nice having disks spin down in my server
  <popey> loving it
  <popey> 30s spin up is less fun :)
  <MartijnVdS> popey: doesn't that decrease their lifespan though? if you stop/start them a lot?
  <popey> define " a lot "
  <MartijnVdS> several times an hour?
  <popey> its not that often
  <popey> once every 6 hours if I dont use the server
  <MartijnVdS> sounds reasonable enough :)
  <popey> well, one set of disks wakes every 6 hours to do a backup
  <popey> the other set of disks wakes up once a day to update databases and stuff
  <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9793465/
  <popey> they look like that a _lot_
  <MartijnVdS> what do you use them for?
  <popey> one set of 4 is for rsnapshot backups
  <popey> of laptop, VPSs, desktop, phone :)
  <popey> the other is a set of 4 as a dumping ground for stuff that i can easily re-get
  <popey> e.g. downloaded stuff like music
  <popey> i destroyed my 12 disk btrfs volume after some of it got corrupted :(
  <MartijnVdS> :( did you figure out the reason for the SATA errors btw?
  <popey> yeah, i think it's the array
  <popey> have taken that out
  <diddledan> :-(
  <davmor2> JamesTait: I missed todays announcement but black bomber ftw \o/
  <JamesTait> davmor2, happy Cheese Lovers' Day. :)
  <davmor2> JamesTait: hence the black bomber comment :)
  <bashrc> black bomber?
  <davmor2> bashrc: look it up
  <DJones> Heh, there's a major new bridge being built near me across the mersey, just hope it doesn't join to the rest of the road network like this one http://bit.ly/1ztrL8a
  <DJones> Although the kids would love it in snowy weather
  <zmoylan-pi> wow a bridge that was designed to hate cyclists :-)
  <DJones> They'd be ok coming down....
  <zmoylan-pi> unless there's frost on the ground...
  <davmor2> bashrc: http://www.snowdoniacheese.co.uk/cheese/black-bomber/ one of the best mature Cheddars about
  <bashrc> never heard of it
  <popey> mmmmm cheese
  <popey> http://drool.popey.com
  <zmoylan-pi> how many types of cheeses are there again? :-)
  <diddledan> DJones: err, wtf? is that real?
  <DJones> diddledan: Yep, The Sanpo Bridge
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: 4 solid, speadable, cottage and cream
  <diddledan> wow
  <DJones> Looks like its got a cyclepath up the side :)
  <zmoylan-pi> blessed are the cheesemakers...
  <davmor2> He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy
  <zmoylan-pi> i feel a rewatching of the sacred movie is in order...
  <diddledan> davmor2:!!
  <diddledan> davmor2: all hail brain
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: the princess bride?
  <zmoylan-pi> now leaning towards double feature
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> you're all different. you're all individuals. (I'm not!)
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: oh you meant the holy grail
  <zmoylan-pi> nobody, and i repeat nobody is to throw anything until i blow this whistle
  <davmor2> right who was that?
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you're a pervert
  <zmoylan-pi> well he did say jehovah...
  <diddledan> any women present?
  <davmor2> stone him
  <zmoylan-pi> welease woger
  <diddledan> woger the cabin boty
  <diddledan> boy*
  <Azelphur> haha wow, #freenode is a mess atm, so much spam and trolls in there xD
  <davmor2> Azelphur: stop joining so many channels then
  <Azelphur> never :P
  <davmor2> Azelphur: well stop spamming them then ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> you could monitor that channel for ips to block so
  <Azelphur> haha
  <Azelphur> in other news the drivers for my fingerprint scanner on my new laptop work great, as long as you only want to do one scan :P
  <Azelphur> and...the thing to enroll your fingerprint wants to scan your finger 5 times
  <Azelphur> :<
   * zmoylan-pi scribbles note to bring knife if i want to nick Azelphur's laptop :-P
  <Azelphur> well, you can't, since I can't train the laptop to recognise my print haha
  <zmoylan-pi> i'll bring it just in case
   * zmoylan-pi also brings the soundtrack for reservoir dogs to pass time
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <shauno> is there a way to export the build config for your running kernel?
  <shauno> (other than /proc/kconfig, since distros don't seem to use this option)
  <diddledan> shauno: is it not in /boot?
  <diddledan> (I haven't checked but that used to be a common place to store it
  <diddledan> )
  <diddledan> shauno: I have /boot/config-3.16.0-25-generic
  <shauno> oh aye, that looks just the ticket, cheers
  <diddledan> I assume that's done via the debian packaging thing
  <diddledan> rather than necessarily being standard
  <diddledan> so building your own kernel won't replicate unless you either do it yourself or create a .deb
  <SuperEngineer> Anyone hrard of this company, or know of a better option for replacement batteries? http://www.ukbatteryfast.co.uk/acer-aspire-one-aoa150-battery-p-852
  <popey> i bought one on ebay a while back
  <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/power_biz from that vendor
  <diddledan> I just heard what has to be almost the worst thing ever: someone wants to eat an after-eight at 2pm!
  <SuperEngineer> thanks popey
  <shauno> oh this is gonna get messy.  trying to just grab 3.17 from sid, but it wants to bring a new version of gcc with it ..
  <popey> http://steamleft.com/span/76561198026048912
  <popey> "It would take you...
  <popey> 2187 continuous hours
  <popey> 91 days,3 hours,49 minutes
  <diddledan> shauno: awesome!
  <popey> of gameplay to complete your Steam library"
  <popey> oops
  <popey> sorry
  <ali1234> how is that calculated?
  <diddledan> popey: see you in three months
  <popey> no idea
  <ali1234> how many games do you have?
  <diddledan> ali1234: all of them
  <diddledan> :-p
  <popey> not many
  <ali1234> about 150 to 200 right?
  <popey> 206
  <ali1234> so that's 10 hours per game
   * popey notes 218 hours clocked up in one gane
  <popey> *game
  <popey> not doing this right!
  <ali1234> data on games from http://howlongtobeat.com/ apparently
  <popey> 47 hours on LA Noire#
  <ali1234> i'd say about 90% of the games i have are rubbish anyway, possibly more
  <MartijnVdS> yeah lots of them are
  <ali1234> 233 total games, 168 for linux, 25 that i consider "good", and about 50 that i want to play but they either don't work or aren't ported yet
  <MartijnVdS> I've been gaming on my Windows machine.. yay Elite: Dangerous :)
  <shauno> man, this is gonna totally send me into 'grumpy old man' mode.  yes|make oldconfig doesn't work anymore :(
  <ali1234> does anyone else think ubuntu and linux are totally inappropriate for use in robotics?
  <bashrc> not at all
  <bashrc> a few years ago I used ubuntu extensively for robotics
  <zmoylan-pi> gives you a fighting chance if the robot goes rogue :-)
  <ali1234> how did you get around the slow interrupt handling and lack of real-time?
  <bashrc> In my case I wasn't needing deterministic tasking
  <bashrc> I used ROS
  <ali1234> also, does anyone else think they're completely inappropriate for IoT as well?
  <ali1234> is there any hardware that can run ubuntu and uses less than 0.001W?
  <MartijnVdS> 0.001W? that's not a lot
  <zmoylan-pi> devices are getting smaller all the time... http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/mousebox-is-a-computer-in-a-mouse-the-next-evolution-of-the-pc-30922506.html
  <ali1234> it's what you need for IoT if you don't want to be carrying around a huge battery
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: my Hue Tap doesn't even have a battery :)
  <ali1234> mirocontrollers designed for IoT are typically 200 micro amps per MHz
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/gallery-dissecting-the-philips-hue-tap-wireless-battery-less-controller/
  <ali1234> there's no need for anything more
  <ali1234> right, that uses such little power it can work from the energy of button pushes
  <MartijnVdS> exactly
  <shauno> most the things that are advertising 2-3 year battery life don't require an OS in the first place
  <ali1234> IoT devices that need replacement batteries or have to be charged every day are just going to end up gathering dust in a cupboard
  <ali1234> and that definitely includes anything running linux
  <MartijnVdS> unless it can super-suspend somehow and only use power when required
  <MartijnVdS> but not a lot of things do that
  <ali1234> even if you have things that are plugged in like lightbulbs... well, okay
  <ali1234> let's say you put an ubuntu computer into every lightbulb in your house
  <ali1234> that's going to cost you Â£10 per year per lightbulb in electricity just because of how power hungry linux is
  <shauno> these are things you wouldn't use linux for in the first place though
  <ali1234> you'd think that
   * zmoylan-pi looks at all the rasp pi projects out there :-)
  <ali1234> http://www.ubuntu.com/things
  <shauno> hah
  <MartijnVdS> ali1234: on the cloud-side of IoT I would probably run Ubuntu though.. the bit all the devices talk to
  <ali1234> it's almost as if someone is just desperately trying to jump on every bandwagon without considering any of the technical details at all
  <shauno> I noticed a project recently where a guy had done a rather well-finished build with an rpi making an 'internet radio'
  <shauno> watching him stare at it for 2 minutes while it sat doing SFA while it booted, was excruciating
  <shauno> "simply put the SD card in your Beaglebone, power it on, wait 1-2 minutes and your snappy system"  nope.  fial.
  <shauno> *fail  heh
  <ali1234> http://spritesmods.com/?art=clockradio&page=1
  <zmoylan-pi> if he put the finished project in an old valve radio case it would be appropriate :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> 'takes a while for the wireless to warm up', my father words explaining the old valve radio he got as wedding present
  <knightwise> ali1234: shauno are you guys talking about pi-musicbox ?
  <ali1234> no
  <knightwise> I played with that , its pretty good and might be a good solution if you want to stream internet radio, spotify AND music from your NAs
  <zmoylan-pi> can't you do that on your phone?
  <shauno> I was more commenting that it shouldn't take 2 minutes to boot a radio
   * zmoylan-pi who grew up with valve radios isn't too pushed by that :-)
  <shauno> well, we shouldn't be aiming to emulate the 1930s
  <zmoylan-pi> good things come to those who wait :-)
  <shauno> nah
  <shauno> good things come to those who buy into a closed ecosystem, because open suffers from very low standards ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> i have noticed a few people complain about the amount of time it takes a smart tv to boot
  <knightwise> the whole point of the rasp is that you let it run in the background
  <shauno> the whole point of the pi is to get a cheap computer into schools
  <shauno> it's not really suited for most the tasks we're putting it to.  eg, it has absolutely no power management at all
  <zmoylan-pi> there are after market boards that can assist with that
  <shauno> there's boards that'll add a soft shutdown.  there's not a way to add, eg, a sleep state
  <ali1234> the raspberry pi is really terrible hardware in almost every way
  <ali1234> it's in the awkward position where it is neither efficient nor powerful
  <zmoylan-pi> cheap, powerful, flexible. pick one
  <ali1234> at this point the raspberry pi is none of these things
  <zmoylan-pi> well that's moores law... :-)
  <ali1234> most people use it like a more expensive arduino
  <zmoylan-pi> it's an arduino that doesn't need to be connected to a pc to program
  <ali1234> so it's an arduino?
  <zmoylan-pi> less flexible than an arduino
  <ali1234> it would be more accurate to say it's like an arduino with a PC permanently connected to it using power
  <ali1234> a PC from 1993 though
  <zmoylan-pi> no pc i had in 93 did usb or wireless :-)
  <ali1234> the raspberry pi doesn't do wireless
  <zmoylan-pi> does when i plug in wireless adapter
  <ali1234> and it does USB about as well as a PC from 1997
  <shauno> my amiga does wireless if you plug in a wireless adapter
  <zmoylan-pi> well... an amiga...
  <zmoylan-pi> one season of babylon 5 can't be wrong :-)
  <knightwise> Lol
  <zmoylan-pi> the pi is a compromise.  and fairly good one.  it's captured the mind share of people who ignored all the better single board computers that were already out there
  <ali1234> yes, entirely through marketing
  <ali1234> it's basically captured the market for people who want to pretend they are computer programmers without learning anything
  <ali1234> ie the market previously served by arduino
  <zmoylan-pi> same as 8bit computers in 80s so.  but a lot of programmers did start on those systems
  <ali1234> and before arduino that market was served by those books where you had to type in the program onto your BBC or C64
  <zmoylan-pi> i had a spectrum you insensitive clod :-)
  <ali1234> lol
  <zmoylan-pi> and i spent days typing in some listings.  and i learned from it
  <ali1234> what did you learn?
  <zmoylan-pi> 1) where the buttons where 2) not to make typos 3) what the flip syntax error was 4) to code
  <zmoylan-pi> and save often to tape
  <awilkins_> Spectrum 128 +2 was so much more productive
  <awilkins_> i) Semi-decent keyboard
  <awilkins_> ii) A BASIC mode that didn't use the stupid keycap token thing
  <awilkins_> You could type "LOAD" instead of J
  <zmoylan-pi> the renumber option for code in the editor
   * popey <3 his +2
  <awilkins_> The reason Pi doesn't have the same impact as the home micros of back then is because it's trying to replicate the same experience
  <awilkins_> You can't, because YouTube
  <zmoylan-pi> i didn't like the non standard joystick ports though
  <awilkins_> And every other source of always-on instant gratification over the network
  <popey> yeah, those sinclair joysticks were terrible
  <zmoylan-pi> they've sold 4 million pis.  if that's failure...
   * popey loved his Konix Speed King
  <awilkins_> I had a Powerplay Cruiser with 2 plugs, one for Sinclair socket
  <shauno> hah, I have one of those for the amiga  (the konix)
  <awilkins_> <3 Powerplay Cruiser
  <awilkins_> Never liked the Konix, game me blisters
  <zmoylan-pi> i had cheetah 125+ joysticks for +2.  i ended up using keyboard all the time
  <popey> I used to get great scores on Hyper Sports with it
  <daftykins> is that J loading thing why i keep seeing people post messages and end it with a single line of 'J' online? i think it's J anyway
  <popey> it was good for races, left-right-left-right was easy with very little movement
  <awilkins_> "J" was the key with "LOAD" on it
  <popey> J pp
  <awilkins_> Spectrum used to expand single keypresses (and combos) into BASIC tokens
  <zmoylan-pi> j symbol shift p twice
  <shauno> and I'm not saying the pi is a failure.  I'm saying linux isn't the answer to everything.  especially when they want to shove a generalized distro on there.  the more generic you try to make it, the less suited it is for embedded use
  <awilkins_> Yeah, those old computers just used to boot straight into a BASIC environment
  <zmoylan-pi> and that's why there's so many distros to run on the pi including risc os from bbc archimedes :-)
  <awilkins_> But the point about instant gratification still holds
  <zmoylan-pi> programmers are different, we will work for days to make something that saves us 5 minutes in the future if we feel it's worth it
  <shauno> it's not just gratification.  I was mostly referencing to the 'internet of things' stuff we were talking about before.  2 minutes for my laptop to boot is acceptable.  2 minutes for my lightbulb to boot isn't
  <daftykins> hehe
   * zmoylan-pi has cfl light bulbs that 2-3 mins to warm up. i pointed it out recently that it's better at night as it's not instant bright light hurting your eyes :-)
  <daftykins> true that, takes ages to get bright in my bedroom though
  <daftykins> what if i sat on the cat accidentally!?
  <zmoylan-pi> the cat would let me know
  <daftykins> via telegram? :D
  <daftykins> "urgent telegram for zmoylan-pi from dafty's cat!"
  <zmoylan-pi> the worlds most one sided game of x's and o's :-)
  <popey> Myrtti: how often do you "remove all channels" in irssinotifier
  <popey> ?
  <Myrtti> popey: I don't get highlighted often, so not a lot, especially now that I'm not in most Ubuntu channels I used to frequent and thus don't get hilights
  <Myrtti> and even then I've configured it to alert only when I'm away
  <popey> ok
  <camason> hi guys. Just booted up an old 13.04 install - trying to update and upgrade, but apt is showing a bunch of 404 errors against security.ubuntu.com raring-security
  <camason> any pointers?
  <popey> it will do
  <popey> 13.04 is out of support
  <awilkins_> 404 is because the files are not there anymore!
  <camason> makes sense
  <popey> disable the security repo in system settings and upgrade it
  <popey> or reinstall, whatever
  <awilkins_> From memory there's a "old stuff" repo?
  <awilkins_> Not sure how much it has in it
  <popey> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
  <popey> s/stuff/releases/
  <awilkins_> Last time I looked was for my very very old MythTV box
  <awilkins_> I do wonder if the new builds will actually perform better on the hardware
  <awilkins_> Since they redid it all in Qt4
  <awilkins_> For that kind of gap I'd probably back up my /home and reinstall / restore (to a subfolder)
  <camason> I imagine it would be easier now If I just purge this install and start again?
  <daftykins> camason: yeah backup and clean install of 14.04.1 would make far more sense and be time effective
  <mapps> hhi all
  <camason> ok I'll do that. I'll burn 14.04 to the CD as that's still working
  <daftykins> *DVD
  <daftykins> 14.04.1 ;)
  <camason> I was too lazy to type dvd
  <daftykins> hah
  <camason> crazy year for work... thought I'd actually boot my gaming PC to have a session, only to remember that the Windows 7 install was fubar, and ubuntu was on an old non-lts release
  <daftykins> camason: if it were still before Christmas we could get you a flash drive to install from
  <camason> eh?
  <daftykins> as a present
  <camason> nice
  <camason> typical tonight I left all my USB drives at the office
  <camason> I need to do it anyway... TF2 just isn't the same on a Mac
  <daftykins> heh
  <camason> I have a GTX 780 in there I've never used. Been sat there for a year
  <camason> is there a tl:dr anywhere on what's changed in ubuntu since 2013?
  <mapps> ]brrr
  <daftykins> pass.
  <mapps> this weather sucks
  <mapps> i can go to work in shorts and tshirt most days back in gib
  <camason> yeah it sucks a lot. Riding a motorcycle in it is terrible
  <mapps> here im cold:((
  <mapps> never need a coat there..hjere do
  <mapps> sent a text to my boss saying im staying perm
  <mapps> ;D
  <daftykins> XD
  <daftykins> it's down to 5 deg C here on Guernsey atm
  <mapps> said id decide by 19th jan when i went back to uk]
  <mapps> Gibraltar
  <mapps> Tuesday 20:00
  <mapps> Mostly Cloudy
  <mapps> undefined
  <mapps> 9Â°C | Â°F
  <mapps> Precipitation: 5%
  <mapps> Humidity: 93%
  <mapps> Wind: 6 mph
  <mapps> TemperaturePrecipitationWind
  <mapps> and thats 'cold' for them
  <mapps> never seen it really cold..sometim,es strongish winds from the sea but thats it
  <daftykins> yeah coastal can be a bit blargh
  <mapps> daddy's fixing my iphone screen atm:DDD
  <mapps> and its rained maybe 3-4x since ive been there 4 months
  <daftykins> nasty fruity tech :P
  <mapps> but besides that all good
  <mapps> im getting paid a good wage for being there 8% rise..rent allowance and 2 free flights to uk each year
  <mapps> if i come back to uk..same job but none of that
  <daftykins> 8D
  <daftykins> sounded like you said the place is a bit of a dive though?
  <mapps> hmm
  <mapps> not dive
  <mapps> dead
  <mapps> true
  <mapps> because people only go out fridays..so rest of the week it's very quiet..relaxed..like a retirement/ghost town
  <mapps> no bars/pubs open past 11pm place is EMPTY
  <mapps> but there's also virtually no crime..everyone woiuld know who it is hey..it's so small
  <mapps> and better weather]
  <daftykins> i quite fancy a curry tonight, but there's a heavy downpour right now
  <daftykins> i wouldn't even fancy walking the 60m to my local ;)
  <mapps> no home del?
  <daftykins> well i genuinely am 60m from their door, so i wouldn't try to be so cheeky
  <daftykins> i also take the carrier bag back in from the last time, to recycle :>
  <mapps> ;]
  <daftykins> new stuff look inside it and see nothing, look puzzled for a moment, then realise what i'm going on about :>
  <brobostigon> any ideas why, messages from a contact in bitlbee, would show in the control channel, insted of in a seperate window for said contact?
  <popey> a bug?
  <brobostigon> messages from all my other contacts show in seperate windows as they are meant to, except for from one specific contact.
  <popey> http://imgur.com/z5jwkis :)
  <daftykins> \o/
  <mjayk> o/
  <daftykins> hi
  <mjayk> hayhay
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-21
  <mapps> hm
  <mapps> quite a few eps behind on the flash now
  <mapps> grmpf
  <mapps> ;]
  <mapps> 2 eps left of flash
   * zmoylan-pi puts on father ted
  <mapps> ;]
  <mapps> im thinkingof watching either life after beth or guardians of the galaxy next
   * zmoylan-pi wonders what superduper features we can expect from windows 10
  <lemap> hm win10]
  <lemap> win8 sucks enough...some reason my cursor just gets stuck randomly...everythung else will be working fine
  <zmoylan-pi> it used to be odd numbers of windows were the good ones but 2 even numbers in a row will throw that off
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <Myrtti> you know, it would be great if on Amazon Marketplace shops it would say in cat sized letters which country the goods are shipped from
  <Myrtti> Business Name: ULTRA TOP, Business Address: Leicester. Ships from: HONG DAMNIT KONG
  <diddledan> morning
  <knightwise> hey diddledan
  <knightwise> how are you man
  <diddledan> awake
  <diddledan> :-(
  <diddledan> :-p
   * knightwise has been playing around with crouton on the chromebook 
  <knightwise> a vain effort to get audio working
  <knightwise> although ... mumble seems to behave no
  <knightwise> w
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <knightwise> hey davmor2
  <davmor2> popey: ubrick scope is fun
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hugging Day! :-D
  <zmoylan-pi> during flu season... what genius thought that one up? :-)
  <knightwise> JamesTait: hugging day ?
  <knightwise> Why don't I work in a modeling agency or something
  <JamesTait> Probably someone in the Southern hemisphere, zmoylan-pi. ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> a face that looked like it was on fire and someone put it out with a shovel knightwise? :-P
  <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: you flatter me
  <knightwise> maybe I have the body of a swimsuit model ?
  <zmoylan-pi> missed a word... steam shovel
  <JamesTait> I'm home alone, knightwise. Apart from the cats. I could hug them.
  <zmoylan-pi> hugging cats, isn't that an extreme sport?
  <JamesTait> But it could make tomorrow awkward: Answer Your Cat's Questions Day.
  <diddledan> knightwise, I've got the body of a swimsuit model. it is just hidden behind a bearish exteriour
  <knightwise> diddledan: grizly bear or pooh-bear
  <diddledan> knightwise, either?
  <diddledan> :-p
   * DJones hands diddledan Borat's mankini
   * DJones hands the rest of the channel some eye bleach
   * knightwise runs away screaming
  <diddledan> teehee
   * knightwise pokes eyes out with old rusty ISA-cards
   * zmoylan-pi passes around forks or chopsticks for channel to use to poke their eyes out hygenically
   * knightwise stops licking used toilet seats to say 'thank you'
  <DJones> A couple fo years back, we were at a family news eve party & my wifes cousin turned up at the door (from the pub) dressed in one of those, I've never heard female aged relatives scream so much
  <zmoylan-pi> wait till the year he forgets to wear it?
   * JamesTait shudders
  <davmor2> man JamesTait went with hug day so it sounds like people like him, I mean how does /me throws hugs at JamesTait sound the slightest bit scary :D  /me throws bears at JamesTait to hug him
  <JamesTait> davmor2, I was tempted by Squirrel Appreciation Day.
  <mapps> hm
  <mapps> nadal gonna be out of the aus o already
   * zmoylan-pi continues plans to raise a squirrel army
  <mapps> O_o
   * davmor2 coats JamesTait and acorns and throws squirrels at him
   * zmoylan-pi stuffs JamesTait in barrel and tops it off with angry squirrels before nailing on lid
   * DJones sets the Animal Liberation Front onto zmoylan-pi 
   * zmoylan-pi prepares a second barrel for alf.  gets the rottweilers ready to top of barrel
   * JamesTait wonders who alf is.
  <zmoylan-pi> animal liberation front
   * JamesTait throws a shift key at zmoylan-pi. ;)
  <DJones> There's only one ALF
  <DJones> https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgmtXvRPhPbzO_zg1vDoCLBBceOxZcRLio2RxxqLsL8IBJx02a
   * zmoylan-pi is shifty enough >_>
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: hows the weather over there ?
  <zmoylan-pi> snow receding so no time for you to be travelling as no transport would be cancelled :-)
  <czajkowski> I may have broken my curse of travelling to .ie I managed to get there this christmas with no delays!
  <czajkowski> none!
  <zmoylan-pi> it's a trap luring you into making bolder plans...
  <diddledan> I've seen people typing using the capslock key to get sentence case - i.e. the initial cap of a sentence
  <diddledan> *capslock, a, capslock, rest-of-sentence*
  <JamesTait> diddledan, my eldest son is one such person. :-/
  <diddledan> I wonder if they do ALF as *capslock, a, capslock, capslock, l, capslock, capslock, f, capslock*
  <diddledan> that would mess with my head
  <czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: no more travel plans for the future for a while, bought a house so planning the big move
   * czajkowski firmly cements her roots in Surrey 
   * zmoylan-pi would love to see neighbours faces when they see chickens been brought in... :-P
  <zmoylan-pi> my uncle who kept pigeons AND chickens got a few looks when he moved
  <czajkowski> yeah...
  <czajkowski> shall move them in under the cover of night :)
  <zmoylan-pi> and let the dawn introduce them to a whole new experience :-D
  <czajkowski> they're mostly ok tbh, there are the odd mornings when they're super noisy when they lay but not so much in the winter time
  <czajkowski> we only have 6 :)
  <zmoylan-pi> great burgalar alarm, at least for my uncle
  <czajkowski> Bash nmakes more noise
  <czajkowski> :/
  <Laney> czajkowski: congrats!
  <czajkowski> Laney: thanks :)
  <Laney> are you renting now?
  <czajkowski> been a busy few months
  <czajkowski> yup
  <Laney> fun fun
  <czajkowski> but we've just bought in Godalming
  <Laney> we just bought too
  <czajkowski> so hoping to move in March
  <czajkowski> fingers crossed
  <czajkowski> and at some point plan a wedding :)
  <Laney> need to get a man in to do $jobs, but I keep putting it off
  <Laney> oh yeah that old thing :P
  <czajkowski> Laney: aye we have a good few jobs to do, but thankfully Jons stepdad is a builder who does house renovations
  <czajkowski> :D
  <Laney> convenient or what!
  <czajkowski> does anyone use evolution and has calendar working nicely set up for exchange mail ?
  <czajkowski> Laney: that was another reason to picking the house, we knew if we got it we could get stuff done
  <zmoylan-pi> irish person with english builders... seems wrong somehow :-)
  <czajkowski> for starters the entire house needs painting inside, an do that in a week once we hire one of his crew fo rht eweek
  <czajkowski> and then do the place up bit by bit
  <Laney> nod
  <Laney> I need to figure out the green deal shenanigans to get the last single glazed windows replaced
  <Laney> which includes the one in this office
   * Laney shivers
  <czajkowski> yes all the windows need double glazing
  <czajkowski> :(
  <czajkowski> cannot wait to set up my office there
  <Laney> look into this green deal home improvement fund
  <czajkowski> living on pinterest to get some ideas
  <czajkowski> and houzz
  <czajkowski> Laney: link?
  <Laney> you can get 1.5K ish grant for energy efficiency stuff
  <Laney> https://www.gov.uk/green-deal-energy-saving-measures/get-money-back-from-the-green-deal-home-improvement-fund
  <Laney> and you can use the EPC which you already have when buying the house instead of paying for a new assessment
  <knightwise> silly question , what if i would like to build a simple text menu in the command line to launch command line apps
  <knightwise> like press 1 to launch irssi , 2 to launch wordgrinder etc.
  <knightwise> are there any simple ways to do that ?
  <czajkowski> Laney: nice
  <czajkowski> thanks
  <Laney> need to get off my bum and find out who to call
  <diplo> knightwise, can do it with python etc building on ncurses
  <diplo> I started playing with something myself for work a while ago
  <popey> knightwise: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/code-project-build-ncurses-ui-python
   * knightwise is taking a lok
  <diplo> heh was just about to link to that  :)
  <knightwise> looks like something I can start with
  <Laney> snow's really coming down here
  <popey> ooh
  <popey> #uksnow
  <popey> http://uksnowmap.com/
  <popey> none here
  <MooDoo> hello all
  <knightwise> Belgium has sunny skies
  <knightwise> hey MooDoo
  <Laney> easing off already
  <Laney> boo
  <MooDoo> look like but constant here
  <MooDoo> light not like
  <MooDoo> oooo quite heavy now
  <Laney> looks like MooDoo has a 5 minute snow lag on me ;-)
   * awilkins draws up the blind to do a snowcheck
  <awilkins> Snow status zero
  <bashrc> status: snowing
  <bashrc> lunchtime could be amusing
  <awilkins> Kickstarter hits $1.6M in less than 24 hours...
  <awilkins> For a card game.
  <awilkins> The power of a solid following on the web.
  <awilkins> At least they aren't going all "Star Citizen" and offering SUPER POWERED KITTEN CARDS for $2,500 apiece.
  <knightwise> *sigh*
  <knightwise> getting a little tired of this cyber-begging
  <popey> cyber begging?
  <bashrc> kickstarter is ok, but it's not something which could form a sustainable business model
  <bashrc> status: not snowing
  <knightwise> true. But all the patreon campains , this and that campains. I understand its a business model
  <popey> trending towards 24M USD http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/elanlee/exploding-kittens/
  <popey> knightwise: the other option being?
  <bashrc> I think patreon is a more sustainable thing, because it's like an ongoing subscription
  <bashrc> rather than just a one-off event
  <popey> I mean, If you make video or other content and want to get paid (i.e. it be the sole source of income) what's your option?
  <popey> Adverts? No good unless you have millions of followers like Yogscast or MKBHD
  <popey> patreon is neat in that you can pick and choose what content you want to pay for and how much.
  <knightwise> popey: don't know really ..
  <awilkins> Patreon is OK for ongoing content (like journalism) but how do you get something like Star Citizen or Elite funded like that?
  <popey> you and I have the luxury of having a job which pays, and the content creation is a sideline.
  <awilkins> "Hey guys, we wrote 1,000 lines of C++ today! *thrills*"
  <popey> thats what kickstarter is for
  <awilkins> Exactly
  <popey> see also that librem laptop
  <MooDoo> patreon works well, I sponsor and pay per video for a max amount
  <popey> https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-laptop
  <popey> 98%
  <knightwise> popey: i agree with you on that
  <popey> they're going to hit their target
  <popey> which is awesome for them.
  <awilkins> Ooh, is that a really nice shiny metal unibody construction?
  <knightwise> it IS a cool cardgame
  <awilkins> Maybe kickstarters should have an upper limit
  <awilkins> Like "The thing we are going to do will cost $10,000 to develop. Upper limit will be $40,000, because how much can you really polish a shiny diamond?"
   * awilkins is now snow-positive
  <awilkins> OOh, 4k display on that Purism laptop
  <awilkins> Â£1,500 for a laptop that high end... but I bet the VAT in customs applies
  <awilkins> Â£1800 is pretty good
  <awilkins> That's with 16GB of RAM and the stupid-HD screen
  <knightwise> a 4K on a laotop ?
  <awilkins> 3840x2160
  <awilkins> Ok, it's an 8k
  <awilkins> If the k means "thousand thousand pixels"
  <bashrc> ok, they've added a uk keyboard option, so I think I'll try to get a librem laptop
  <bashrc> my troubles with starting my existing laptop (from cold) are ongoing
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <bigcalm> Hi intrbiz
  <intrbiz> bigcalm: hello
   * bigcalm heads off towards the LUG
  <awilkins_> Why can't rsync have a "this is clearly going much more slowly than it would take to transfer the rest of the file in boring old normal mode"
  <awilkins_> fallback mode
  <awilkins_> Watching it thrash CPU on the source box and transfer data at 8kB/s
  <awilkins_> On a 100Mb/s network segment
  <x86bit> Hi
  <x86bit> I need some help setting up my proftpd server, I cant seem to access it from out side my network
  <x86bit>  I need some help setting up my proftpd server, I cant seem to access it from out side my network
  <ChunkzZ> anyone here have virgin media as their ISP?
  <Hemlock> Im on sky but I know a little about virgin
  <ChunkzZ> I need a new wireless router. I'm using a dlink 615 with my superhub (from virgin) but it keeps disconnecting etc on different devices so need a new wireless router. can you recommend any?
  <ChunkzZ> I was looking at this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291151529053
  <ChunkzZ> will that work with virgin? or do i need something like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Netgear-WNDR3800-N600-Premium-WiFi-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Cable-Broadband-Router-/311213508015?pt=UK_Computing_Wireless_Routers&hash=item4875c545af
  <popey> is your superhub in modem only mode?
  <popey> (if not, you should consider it)
  <ChunkzZ> yeah it's in modem mode
  <popey> I use a netgear wndr3700
  <popey> been rock solid.
  <popey> I put dd-wrt on mine
  <ChunkzZ> you with virgin?
  <popey> yes
  <Hemlock> Lucky you guys can swap out your routers
  <Hemlock> Sky only let you use their shitty boxes
  <popey> yeah, so i hear
  <ChunkzZ> so I can use this? Netgear WNDR3800 N600 Premium WiFi Wireless-N Gigabit Cable Broadband Router
  <popey> my vm actually went down an hour ago
  <popey> only for a few mins
  <popey> which is quite rare here
  <ChunkzZ> the d/c's is driving my family mad
  <popey> what exactly happens?
  <ChunkzZ> on ipads and android it just disconnects
  <popey> what, the wifi?
  <ChunkzZ> yeah
  <popey> how many neighbours also have wifi?
  <ChunkzZ> a lot lol
  <popey> there's a nice android app called wifi analyzer
  <popey> which lets you see what your neighbours have
  <popey> and see what channel they're on
  <popey> I moved my ones to another channel away from theirs
  <shauno> I like to 'encourage' devices to use 5ghz where they can too
  <shauno> (there seems to be a whole lot less contention there)
  <ChunkzZ> my dlink 615 only supports 2.4
  <popey> the 3800 is the newer version of my 3700
  <popey> should be fine
  <popey> dual band too, so does 2.4 and 5
  <shauno> well, it depends how many of your devices do 5 too, else it's a pretty useless suggestion.  but where usable, it's worth trying.  (and where not usable, easily ignored :)
  <popey> i fiddled the firmware on mine to use channels above what the neighbours use :)
  <popey> thanks to MartijnVdS
  <shauno> I guess he ain't kidding
  <ali1234> anyone ever used these lithium ion AA batteries in a project?
  <ali1234> you should be able to run a raspberry pi a+ for about 8 hours on two "AA" batteries with them
  <ChunkzZ> popey, just checked wifi analyzer and I was running on the same channel as my next door neighbours. changed it to 3 which no one else is running and it seems fine. could that of been causing it?
  <popey> it doesnt help
  <ChunkzZ> saying that, I shall go ahead and buy the router one up from yours :) still, that'll do nicely with 2.4 and 5 :)
  <popey> problem is the channels overlap
  <popey> as you see in the display in wifi analyzer
  <popey> yeah, its a nice router
  <ChunkzZ> I'll defo order it tomorrow. thanks! also, my dad is saying it's not disconnecting now.
  <ChunkzZ> his ipad would just randomly disconnect lol
  <ChunkzZ> damn neighbours
  <popey> heh
  <popey> Glad we could help!
  <ChunkzZ> :) you did, I'm grateful. now it's bed time................................................
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-22
  <mapps> timeto start 12 monkeys :)
  <mapps> hm
  <mapps> i got 2 pis..diff locations..same exact ones, same sd card, wireless adapter etc - one of them is slow as hell when i run say sudo apt-get install x..anyone have any idea why?
  <m0nkey_> running on battery?
  <mapps> Both on mains
  <mapps> iots reallly slow when doing apt-get besides that seems fine..and not the downloading but reading package list 1%..2 etc
  <mapps> hm
  <Guest53371> mornig all
  <MooDoo> sigh
  <selinuxium> Hello o/
  <MooDoo> howdy
  <sebsebseb> hi
  <popey> hello
  <sebsebseb> popey: about a week to go ;d
  <popey> indeed!
  <sebsebseb> first two interesting other things though for me ;)
  <Laney> ha
  <Laney>  We promised to tell you if anyone launches a new tariff that could save
  <Laney>    you more than Â£1 a week
  <Laney> thanks EDF!
  <selinuxium> Week til what?
  <Laney> what?
  <Laney> but one of the tarriffs they list is with First Utility who currently are nicking some of my money, so ...
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Answer Your Catâs Questions Day! :-D
   * DJones Wonders if the cat really wants to know why I'm holding a kebab stick
   * awilkins wonders where his cat is and why he didn't know he had one
  <davmor2> JamesTait: Charlie Says Meow Meow, Mew Mew Meow Meow
  <sebsebseb> oh I joined here earlier
  <sebsebseb> ,but put noting in here about Wndows 10 hmm
  <sebsebseb> two other channels though yes
  <sebsebseb> anyway seems Desktop Linux will get some real compettion from it
  <sebsebseb> and most users wil get it for free when upgraing from Windows 7 or 8 to it seems.
  <sebsebseb> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/01/windows-10-microsoft-plan-to-win-users-back
  <bashrc> ugh. it's closed source. How can anyone trust that?
  <sebsebseb> bashrc: so is Apple or most of it, but yet the amount of users
  <bashrc> code that you can't see is code that you can't trust
  <sebsebseb> indeed, but most computer users don't really know about that
  <davmor2> sebsebseb: no it won't Desktop linux has never been competition for windows in reality,  Chrome OS on the other hand is the closest thing that Microsoft have to real competition and that again is pretty closed too
  <sebsebseb> well  and Android
  <sebsebseb> then
  <sebsebseb> that's competion to
  <sebsebseb> davmor2: well  Desktop Linux was meant to replace Unix, it's just for  lots of people or usauly it can replace using WIndows to yeah
  <sebsebseb> if that's what you meant
  <popey> that doesn't mean they see it as competition
  <davmor2> sebsebseb: no microsoft is trying to be competition to android on devices, MS already lost that battle and is playing catch up
  <popey> in fact I had a marketing VP of Microsoft tell me "We have no competition"
  <sebsebseb> popey: I think there was some old  thing from a few years back,  where  on Microsoft's competition list or well potential threats competion list, they actaully put Canonical as well
  <bashrc> "convenient and powerful", but probably bugged
  <sebsebseb> popey: yeah  Apple aim at a diffenrwdt market really, so even that, isn't really porper compeition to them
  <davmor2> sebsebseb: no I mean that when you own 90% of the desktop market the other 10% split between your competition they are not really competition
  <bashrc> "universal" meaning the apps only run on Windows
  <popey> it's less that they have no competition, more they are somewhat arrogant to think they have no competition
  <sebsebseb> davmor2: espeically with Apple yeah, and what's that like
  <sebsebseb> davmor2: aiming for  those who want to pay premium prices
  <sebsebseb> instead of pretty much anyone
  <sebsebseb> and those who think the Apple design and look is so  something, but that's another hting
  <sebsebseb> anyway  Windows 10 wil move most of the computer using world forward,  because like it or not, that's what most computer users are going to use on lap tops and destkops  that are being used at the time, or well probably
  <bashrc> or backwards
  <popey> heh
  <sebsebseb> or backwards maybe yeah, depending on how it's looked at
  <popey> sebsebseb: its still not open source / free software :)
  <bashrc> more centralised, closed crap
  <sebsebseb> popey: maybe 30 years time they open source Windows :d
  <sebsebseb> when  it's  not realy used anymoe heh
  <sebsebseb> they did that with a version of DOS actually
  <popey> not really
  <popey> they made it available for a museum
  <popey> they didn't "open source" it
  <bashrc> "harmony in your household"
  <sebsebseb> oh, well I don't remember quite hten, but I think I may have read that it got open sourced,  but as I said I don't remember uqite
  <bashrc> "co-engineering project"?
  <bashrc> at the end of the advert I think they're trying to coopt some of the language of open source
  <sebsebseb> in fact maybe in 30 years time,  ReactOS wil be ready to replace WIndows being used by most people or not,  shame really about the such slow development of ReactOS since lack of developers, I mean imagine that if it was more developed much more developed
  <popey> yes, people thought "ooh, source code" and thought it meant "open source"
  <popey> given how many thousands of developers microsoft has, reactos will _always_ be playing catch up
  <popey> and some way behind
  <popey> MS had some thousand or so people working on one device for example.
  <bashrc> that MS had a thousand developers on a device shows how inefficient they must be. It must be quite hard to coordinate a team of that size
  <popey> oh I dunno. it takes a lot to make a whole new device
  <popey> (Microsoft HoloLens)
  <sebsebseb> HoloLens ???????
  <sebsebseb> what's that or was that a joke?
  <popey> no
  <bashrc> that's true, but a thouand? That seems like an incredibly large team
  <popey> sure
  <popey> Samsung recently moved a thousand people to work on Tizen
   * sebsebseb waits for  first Ubuntu Phone :d
  <popey> these are huge companies
  <sebsebseb> yeah OS's take time to make.....  how long depnds on how made, waht people etc etc,  but right we all know that here I guess anyway :d
   * bashrc thinks open source is maybe a thin blue line
  <popey> sebsebseb: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/01/hands-on-with-hololens-making-the-virtual-real/
  <awilkins> Sure a lot of those thousand are people making demo content and apps, people marketing, etc
  <awilkins> In general I like Microsoft peripheral hardware
  <awilkins> Their mice / joysticks / gamepads are all solid and good quality
  <selinuxium> msg: popey Hi fella. Got a few Ubuntu Business questions you might be able to help steer me towards so answers if that is OK?
  <popey> wassup?
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
  <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
  <selinuxium> 'lo Brobo
  <brobostigon> morning selinuxium
  <cybernova> hi, i have a 20Â£ voucher for HelloFresh from Amazon, dont know what to do with it, so if you want it the code is HFNYAMZ1 and is valid only for UK and NI
  <cybernova> bye
  <awilkins> Anyone want the worst job ever? : http://jobview.monster.com/getjob.aspx?JobId=144461403&jvs=cf,can-6342,can,0&WT.mc_n=olm_sk_feed_ziprecruiter
  <awilkins> Hmm. cybernova may just be some kinda innovative spammer, but who spams IRC channels....
  <awilkins> And this HelloFresh thing looks like my kinda thing actually.
   * Myrtti_ just cooks from the Hairy Dieters books and orders stuff from Tesco
  <awilkins> Really, I should just adopt a routine of committing to opening one of the vast quantity of recipe books I have and cooking a new thing at least once a week
  <awilkins> But I think this addresses the whole "mental effort" thing
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <popey> awilkins: i have used gousto
  <popey> which is very much like hellofresh
  <popey> you pick recipes, they send you the exact ingredients and a recipe card
  <Myrtti_> incidentally I've lost nearly 12kilos since we started Hairy Dieters. With occasional relapse into a chicken kebab and Christmas without gaining any weight.
  <Myrtti_> we started in September I think
  <awilkins> My problem is lack of exercise
  <awilkins> Doing this new job working at home and my home/life balance is still wobbling about
  <Myrtti> so is mine, but if I go exercise with all this bulk I'll break my knees to even worse condition
  <Myrtti> so, weightloss with a food regimen first
  <awilkins> Need to set a timer or something and delineate when worktime stops and exercise time starts
  <awilkins> Myrtti, build some muscle mass as well ; a great passive slimming aid
  <awilkins> Should be able to do that with low-impact exercise
   * awilkins shuts up and concentrates on his own health
  <Myrtti> yeah, that is the long time plan. I'm just a bit limited with my options on low-impact and having already once hurt myself in the gym permanently, it's a bit scary to start over.
  <diddledan> mornin
  <daftykins> hi sir
  <popey> http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/2012/02/coolest-easiest-yummiest-yogurt-pops.html
  <popey> think i need to do that
  <mapps> anyone familiar with enabling ssl on squid?
  <daftykins> lol.
  <mapps> or do i need to download the source and compile..cant do it from a repo install?
  <mapps> why lol?
  <daftykins> mapps and his antics :P
  <mapps> :D
  <mapps> ;]
  <mapps> i did google and have a quick read and seems i may have to use source
  <daftykins> VPNing not enough anymore?
  <mapps> well
  <mapps> my friend wants to use my connectioon remotely
  <mapps> and hes an idiot..he wont manage to use a vpn
  <mapps> it'd be easier for me to explain setting a browser to use a proxy:)
  <daftykins> so give a shell account over SSH and explain PuTTY tunnel + SOCKS proxy in firefox ?
  <daftykins> next to no setup
  <mapps> also..any idea on why my 2nd pi is sloooow compred to my one back in stoke? any apt-get command is slow as anything...yet same pi/power supply/sd card
  <mapps> LOL ssh dream on..he'd be lost
  <daftykins> yours involves way more faffing on your part though
  <mapps> yea:(
  <mapps> any idea on the pi?:(
  <daftykins> explaining how to download PuTTY and configure the tunnel, zero effort
  <daftykins> idea on what with a pi?
  <mapps> why it's so damn slow..running any apt-get command
  <daftykins> probably because they suck for network and disk IO
  <mapps> building dependency tree...x % TAKES AGES
  <mapps> yea but then my other one is like 10x faster
  <daftykins> dunno, SD card speed etc etc
  <daftykins> never used one and don't intend to break that tradition now :)
  <mapps> all same as other one:)
  <mapps> grmp[f
  <mapps> useless
  <mapps> :D
  <daftykins> go the shell account route, simples.
  <daftykins> i SSH to my VPS up in England to proxy via when i need to pretend to be English
  <daftykins> or more to the point establish why your mate is wanting to browse weirdly 0o
  <daftykins> i wouldn't have anyone else slowing me down :D
  <mapps> ok next q..my IP here changes..on bt i wanna use a dyndns hostname and auto update the IP..but the pis behind the router..will it work? the no-ip client asks for my internet facing interface..well neither are really
  <daftykins> it'll work it out.
  <mapps> ok:D
  <daftykins> it doesn't matter that it's not a direct interface, NAT takes care of that
  <daftykins> why don't you just try these things :P
  <mapps> well
  <mapps> trying anything on this pi
  <mapps> is SLOW as i was saying
  <mapps> else i would
  <mapps> lol
  <daftykins> oy vey.
  <shauno> it's quicker to just ask dafty :)
  <mapps> ja
  <daftykins> *sigh*
  <shauno> you don't learn anything that way, but ..
  <mapps> should i bother trying win10 in a vm..no doubt it'll suck:D
  <daftykins> it's nothing like the latest presentation, unless they've put out new media yet
  <mapps> oh
  <mapps> you try on a vm or as main os?7
  <daftykins> i'm not an idiot, so VM
  <daftykins> :>
  <mapps> heh
  <mapps> could be an old or empty machine if youd put it as main os
  <mapps> :D
  <daftykins> i only have a pile of craptops
  <mapps> finally got my pesky nexus7 to turn on..when they run down completely..man they take AGES to charge up..like ages
  <daftykins> maybe that's down to the charger ampage we were talking about the other day?
  <mapps> i think it's a known 'problem' if it gets to 0% the nexus acts like a brick for ages
  <mapps> i was using trhe charger it came with
  <mapps> O_o
  <daftykins> oh i see
  <daftykins> yeah that's big with all such devices i think really
  <daftykins> you shouldn't ever let tablets go flat
  <mapps> yea
  <mapps> :(
  <daftykins> heh yesterday i updated a guys old laptop that we hadn't booted since April
  <mapps> heh
  <daftykins> when we got its' replacement probably XD
  <mapps> super old?
  <daftykins> mmm, kind of
  <mapps> p4?:P
  <mapps> hjeh
  <daftykins> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/09/sony-Vaio-tt-unboxing-hands-on-and-impressions/
  <daftykins> core 2 duo mobile, 4GB RAM and SSD
  <daftykins> in a carbon fibre shell
  <mapps> ;]
  <daftykins> it's done him well for years, gets taken all over the globe for business use
  <daftykins> still does at least 6hrs battery i would expect
  <mapps> thats not bad
  <mapps> my laptop didnt last too long..used on flight for a bit..and on the bus 10mins..dead
  <mapps> 3-4hrs max
  <daftykins> was more like 8-9 hrs new
  <daftykins> we went through a few generations of sony ultraportables before, during and after the whole netbook thing
  <mapps> this film chained is good
  <mapps> :D
  <shauno> I'm watching 'kon tiki', but I'm starting to suspect it should have had subtitles
  <mapps> heh
  <daftykins> mapps]: logged in and i see the updated win10 tech preview image is 'coming soon'
  <shauno> traitors!
  <diddledan> shauno, were you n0rty and downloaded it accidentally?
  <shauno> lol - naw
  <daftykins> i can't be a traitor since i don't run desktop Linux :D
  <shauno> I used something that looked like win8 on a server recently?
  <diddledan> shauno, no, i meant the kontiki thing
  <diddledan> shauno, I notice though that you said that almost an hour ago
  <diddledan> I suck
  <shauno> it's okay dan.  we're way past expecting you to make sense :)
  <daftykins> d'aww
  <diddledan> this looks really fun: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3339966/
  <daftykins> 0o
  <diddledan> it helps that it's entirely original tv rather than "marvel's <insert random comic book hero du jour here>"
  <diddledan> the world is surely going to get fed up with marvel soon
  <diddledan> if it hasn't already
  <daftykins> i'm already on season 5 of 6, of my Sopranos bluray set
  <diddledan> jeez, louisae
  <diddledan> louise*
  <diddledan> you been busy
  <daftykins> haha
  <daftykins> there are only 13 eps per season for 1-5, ~50 mins each
  <diddledan> aah, that helps
  <daftykins> but yeah pretty much watch one or two every day
  <diddledan> usual run for an american series seems to be about 20ish?
  <daftykins> yip
  <daftykins> they seemed to make them do that for season 6
  <daftykins> i was gonna watch that windows 10 event, but 2 hours? ugh
  <diddledan> british tv on the other hand is 6 eps
  <daftykins> the brief recaps will suffice ;)
  <daftykins> Sopranos was thankfully from a time before all this tendancy to become poorly written due to being pushed for ratings, it seems like
  <mapps> 7hm
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-23
  <diddledan> interesting - tesco/talktalk's blinkbox does ultraviolet now
  <diddledan> might be worth switching my purchasing habbit to them rather than googleplaydoh
  <diddledan> specifically because it will mean I have the same library for titles I may get physically as gifts e.g.
  <shauno> I have no idea what that means
  <mapps> same
  <diddledan> blinkbox, ultraviolet or googleplaydoh?
  <mapps> ;]
  <shauno> yes
  <daftykins> when you buy a film on BD/DVD ultraviolet is the streaming service attached
  <daftykins> so you get both one or two physical copies plus x number of streams
  <diddledan> blinkbox: blinkbox.com; ultraviolet: uvvu.com; googleplaydoh: play.google.com
  <mapps> hmm
  <mapps> stupid thunderbird
  <mapps> maybe i should giveup with using an email app
  <daftykins> heh
  <daftykins> that is a bit 90s
  <daftykins> :>
  <shauno> aye.  away to mutt with ya
  <mapps> yea
  <mapps> i just like it
  <mapps> but every time it decides to download ALL emails no matter what i do
  <mapps> like emails from years back:D
  <diddledan> mapps, I hear that. with an 8GB email archive it takes a while for thunderbird to sync when I set it up anew
  <daftykins> i upgraded office version on the boss' old laptop before i left, yesterday
  <daftykins> it's gonna pull down his 19GB worth of email :P
  <daftykins> and that's only the stuff we leave on the hosted setup.
  <diddledan> ooooooooooooohhhhh: simon "scotty" pegg is going to co-write the next startrek!
  <daftykins> he keeps showing up in films that don't seem like they should be comedies, giving them a comedic vibe
  <diddledan> I love his scotty
  <daftykins> not seen either of those new films
  <diddledan> I loved "paul" too
  <diddledan> paul is an awesome movie
  <mapps]> diddledan did you want it to dl them all?
  <mapps]> :)
  <shauno> diddledan:
  <shauno> how to remove wp plugin without removing its data?
  <diddledan> shauno, just delete it
  <diddledan> shauno, don't deactivate it first
  <shauno> I think I just broke someone else's site :)
  <diddledan> \o/
  <daftykins> \o/
  <shauno> I have no idea what that was, I think I'm just going to leave it alone and see if anyone notices
  <daftykins> sounds like a fine approach to me
  <shauno> well, I tend to update all her stuff whenever I'm in the area, because she avoids any button she doesn't understand
  <shauno> so I updated jetpack, and it disappeared.  so I tried to reinstall it, but it said it was already installed.  and then it was installed but wouldn't activate
  <shauno> I'm not entirely sure what happened next, but it appears to be back now?
  <daftykins> XD
  <daftykins> this firewall on my bigv.io still blocks wordpress cals
  <daftykins> *calls
  <mapps]> grmpf
  <mapps]> got to get the bus at 6;40am
  <shauno> then go to bed?
  <mapps]> i will in a bit
  <mapps]> :D
  <mapps]> tennis is on
  <daftykins> lol
  <shauno> ...
  <mapps]> lol why?:D
  <mapps]> 7gonna have to sleep in 2 shifts
  <mapps]> few hrs now few hours when i get back
  <mapps]> :)
  <shauno> well, personally, tennis doesn't rank highly on the list of reasons I'm not in bed, that's all
  <mapps]> oh
  <daftykins> +1
  <shauno> (it's right up there with cricket & golf on my list of "things I can't imagine people watching unless they're high")
  <mapps]> hm
  <shauno> it does seem like something a dog would happily watch, but a cat would squint at you and wonder what the punchline was
  <diddledan> hmm, I've only got 560GB of download in my sabnzb queue :-p
  <diddledan> I don't do illegal, obviously
  <diddledan> it's incrementing as we speak, because I went through my sickbeard listings and told it to research everything it had previously decided wasn't available
  <diddledan> up to 600GB
  <diddledan> luckily I still have 2.6 thousand spaces left
  <diddledan> "2685.90 GB Free Space"
  <diddledan> see, 2.6k-spaces
  <knightwise> mornin peeps
  <diddledan> morning knightwise
  <zmoylan-pi> happy friday
  <popey> yo
   * diddledan awaits the jamestait "what day is today?"
  <diddledan> corrolary - where is he?!
  <diddledan> tabcomplete can't find him so I'm assuming he d/c'd
  <Myrtti> he always does
  <arsenip_> happy friday :)
  <diddledan> I don't think disconnection should be allowed
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <diddledan> I wonder when MS will unleash the next build of windows10 (they said within the next week on wednesday)
  <diddledan> I'm getting antsy
  <diddledan> I want it NOW
  <bashrc> meh
  <diddledan> I'm an instant gratification nut
  <diddledan> as soon as it's announced I want it
  <popey> also "meh"
  <popey> my GameOS machine runs Windows 7.
  <popey> I'd be tempted to upgrade to Windows 10 if it didn't break everything on the machine, just for the free upgrade
  <diddledan> from what I can tell windows 10 will get delivered as a windows-update patch
  <diddledan> i.e. everyone who has windows update turned on will receive it
  <popey> i doubt that
  <ali1234> maybe for people who have windows 8
  <popey> I suspect you'll have to buy it at zero cost
  <diddledan> anyone who has 7sp1, 8 or 8.1
   * bashrc refuses to support windows anymore
  <popey> quite the delta from 7 to 10
  <ali1234> if they upgrade 7, a very large number of companies will go absolutely ape shit
  <ali1234> we are talking "switch to ubuntu" levels of rage
  <bashrc> bonus
  <diddledan> the windows site says: "We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year!*" with the smallprint stating: "*It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP
  <diddledan> fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required."
  <popey> that doesnt mean they get it automagically
  <popey> it'll be optional
  <ali1234> right, it will just be a popup box that says "click here to download windows 10"
  <diddledan> fair enough - I probably just read too much into the requirement for windows update to be enabled
  <ali1234> the key word here is "offer"
  <diddledan> maybe they'll put it in the optional section which requires manual ticking of boxes
  <ali1234> i doubt windows is even capable of in-place upgrades like that
  <ali1234> you need install media
  <diddledan> windows 8 upgrades to 8.1 without a dvd
  <diddledan> and windows 7 upgrades to 8 with just a small application download which then does the rest
  <diddledan> i.e. no dvd again
  <ali1234> er, no it doesn't
  <diddledan> yes it does. I've done it
  <ali1234> that small application downloads the windows 8 ISO and then burns it to a disc
  <diddledan> nope
  <ali1234> then you install it like any other version of windows
  <ali1234> i've got a burned windows 8 disc here that i made using that procedure
  <diddledan> afair it was an in situ update without a dvd required
  <diddledan> you _can_ make a dvd, but it's not needed if you're doing a like-for-like upgrade
  <diddledan> i.e. updating 32bit 7 to 64bit 8 will require the dvd
  <diddledan> but 32 to 32 can be done within the booted os
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <zmoylan-pi> we can ship win10 to you on floppy...
  <popey> microdrives!
  <zmoylan-pi> i was thinking 8" single side floppies
  <popey> i installed MSDOS 6.22 on a "modern" laptop the other day
  <popey> that was fun :)
  <popey> and fast!
  <diddledan> popey, I bet you didn't need any drivers, either
  <knightwise> morning peeps
  <diddledan> knightwise, you said that already
  <popey> well, no, but things dont work
  <popey> like sound
  <diddledan> popey, who needs audio?!
  <ali1234> this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhPA_TpkzkA
  <knightwise> diddledan: you werent awake the first time
  <popey> to play games
  <popey> wanted to play some dos games
  <diddledan> dosbox ftw
   * knightwise is still trying to get his retropi install working
  <diddledan> blindfold speedrun?!
  <popey> nah, i want to run on real hardware, not emulated
  <zmoylan-pi> probably drivers in config.sys for uk keyboard
  <zmoylan-pi> well... country
  <popey> that was all default right for me
  <popey> i used the DOS setup.exe
  <ali1234> wait, dos has a setup.exe?
  <zmoylan-pi> so still set up drivers so
  <popey> yes
  <zmoylan-pi> dos 4 onwards had a setup iirc
  <ali1234> i never knew that
  <popey> heh, DOS 4 was the Windows Me.
  <zmoylan-pi> dos 3 when i started was just fdisk the drive, format the drive (assuming it was ide, could be very wierd otherwise) /s and copy over the floppy into directory called \dos
  <ali1234> DOS 4? I only has 6.22
  <popey> yeah, I started with 3.3
  <popey> or maybe 3.1
  <zmoylan-pi> dos 4 was terrible, used too much memory, no one used it
  <ali1234> sys c:\ and then copy config.sys and autoexec.bat
  <zmoylan-pi> only reason to use it was for partitions bigger than 32mb
  <popey> http://i.imgur.com/z5jwkis.jpg
  <popey> fun
  <popey> thats on a 32GB USB stick so I can use it on anyones PC :)
  <zmoylan-pi> oh, kill the smartdrv, waste of memory :-)
  <popey> well it is now, yeah
  <popey> that was my default install
  <zmoylan-pi> but at least it's /x to kill the write behind feature that annoyed everyone
  <popey> i liked the fact that its full screen, and not some odd window
  <popey> so things it can't do.. sound, network...
  <zmoylan-pi> dos 6.22 can link to another computer with serial/paralled cable, primitive network :-)
  <ali1234> refering the text mode VGA as "fullscreen"
  <popey> hehe :)
  <ali1234> you sound like some hotshot 20 yr old node developer
  <zmoylan-pi> i had been using laplink since dos 3 days so never used it.
  <popey> ahh, my three headed laplink cable
  <popey> that was closely guarded
  <zmoylan-pi> yeah, i wrote very rude labels and stuck them all over my one so no one would borrow it
  <zmoylan-pi> my first social engineering :'-)
  <ali1234> laplink was... bad
  <zmoylan-pi> laplink was excellent
  <popey> actually i wonder if the sound card in the thinkpad might just work
  <ali1234> luckily i was using an amiga at the time when it was popular
  <popey> need to find some dos game with audio
  <popey> JamesTait: slacker
  <bashrc> I think it was just a null modem cable
  <zmoylan-pi> there is an external parallel sound card that might do it iirc
  <ali1234> ethernet was common by the time i was forced to switch to PC
  <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Handwriting Day! :-D
  <popey> \o/
  <zmoylan-pi> we've already done happy friday JamesTait, friday trumps handwriting day :-)
  <popey> \o/ just found some old CDs I burned from 1998 with games on
  <bashrc> gosh
  <popey> haha, has loads of dos utilities
  <popey> like arj, rar200, pkarc
  <zmoylan-pi> i think i might have a zip file on my phone with a backup of all my games from then...
  <zmoylan-pi> commander keen...
  <zmoylan-pi> mahjongg
  <popey> i put the cd in my windows pc, microsoft security essentials found a virus on it :)
  <popey> Joe:Win16/Stupid
  <popey> *Joke
  <bashrc> don't copy that floppy
  <zmoylan-pi> unless you're the government...
  <popey> haha, there's a linux install guide from 1997 on it
  <awilkins> Ooh, null modem cables
  <awilkins> Used to string our Amigas together with those and play Populous 2
  <zmoylan-pi> is that the one that warns about making your monitor explode getting x to work? :-)
  <diddledan> I went to college with a guy who had coax lan - I think it was ethernet, but it mighta been token I guess
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <diddledan> allo
  <zmoylan-pi> my first network was a novell network on ne2000 boards connected via coax
   * bashrc didn't know anything about linux until 1999/2000
  <zmoylan-pi> then we discovered cheap ne2000 clones... the original ne2000 boards cost as much as a cheap laptop now
  <bashrc> I had a coax lan. coax was unreliable
  <diddledan> I remember asking the college it guys about their server because it was showing a non-graphical terminal - I said something like "is that linux?" and they replied "no, it's a real netware server"
  <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi++
  <diddledan> because netware > linux, right?
  <zmoylan-pi> coax worked fine as long as the cable was kept away from people kicking it and the terminators/connectors were good. at work we'd have a cable problem every 2-3 months.
  <ali1234> coax was bad but it was still miles better than laplink
  <popey> at the time netware was better
  <ali1234> and netware 4 was much better than linux was at the time yes
  <zmoylan-pi> netware software was a rock.  it just kept running
  <diddledan> this was circa 99/00
  <popey> oh i got out of netware in ~1996
  <bashrc> humidity could cause strange behavior of the coax networks
  <diddledan> so linux was about 6 years old. a regular bubby
  <zmoylan-pi> there's a famous story of a novell netware server walled up for a couple of years accidently and still kept running.
  <ali1234> netware was probably still better than linux in 1999 but it was crippled due to using IPX not TCP/IP
  <popey> i think there are still fat ethernet cables laid at my local college that I put in 20 years ago.
  <JamesTait> GTA over IPX over coax made up far too much of my final year at uni.
  <zmoylan-pi> they are kept to punish the bad pupils :-)
  <bashrc> a company I was at used netware until about 2003
  <popey> IPXSPX
  <popey> NETX
  <popey> IPODI!
  <popey> memories...
  <zmoylan-pi> don't forget share.exe if you want file locking :-)
  <diddledan> netbeui?
  <diddledan> is that spelt right?
  <bashrc> something like that
  <awilkins> Ugh, had blocked all that horrible networking stuff from my mind
  <diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBIOS
  <awilkins> Hooray for TCP/IP
  <MooDoo> one of my first certification was for Novell Netware....
  <MooDoo> blast from the past
  <diddledan> crazy that MS still clings to netbios names
  <zmoylan-pi> my boss while at a wedding saw the hotels server sitting behind reception desk leaned over and downed their server while drunk for a giggle.
  <MooDoo> bit of a T**t then
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, well you would, wouldn't you!
  <zmoylan-pi> waking up the next morning at checkout he saw the technical staff frantically at the server wondering what was wrong.  he 'fixed' it for them and slunk out so embarrassed.
  <MooDoo> what a kn*b
  <zmoylan-pi> drunk, very drunk...
  <JamesTait> My first job out of uni involved preparing for Y2K by migrating our Novell Netware 4 network to a Windows NT domain (to also integrate our small office network with the group network over ISDN).
  <zmoylan-pi> but he'd tell that story to customers as to why they shouldn't put servers in publically accessible places so some good came of it
  <diddledan> o_O the gadget show website is reporting that the iwatch will have a battery life of 2.5hours
  <awilkins> Is that in Dick Tracy videophone mode?
  <JamesTait> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
  <zmoylan-pi> 2.5 hours... does that count as battery life?
  <zmoylan-pi> or a demo
  <knightwise>  so much for 'worlds most innovative company'
  <zmoylan-pi> i see argos are now selling pebble
  <zmoylan-pi> some people when they move house don't kid around... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7-pnOmCMAA72mv.jpg:large
  <diplo> They seem to do that a fair bit in the states i think zmoylan-pi , there is a TV series about it
  <diplo> :)
  <zmoylan-pi> wouldn't it be cheaper to take a copy of the plans and you know just make a second copy?
  <diplo> But this is 'Merica!
  <diplo> :)
  <awilkins> You could even knock down the old house and call it a "teleport"
  <awilkins> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/15/01/22/2233248/researchers-moot-teleportation-via-destructive-3d-printing
  <zmoylan-pi> you could leave the old house and call it a teleport accident...
  <awilkins> Anyone see that article about the Chinese buildings made with a ginormous 3D printer?
  <awilkins> They're kinda weird inside, look like the excretions of some giant termits
  <zmoylan-pi> haven't we been using giant 3d printers since we started pouring concrete into moulds onsite?
  <awilkins> Moulds not the same
  <awilkins> http://rt.com/news/224423-china-3d-printer-house/
  <awilkins> Those blocks look quite light
  <diddledan> why do reporters insist on calling the material that 3d printers extrude "ink"?!
  <zmoylan-pi> because reporters are dumb and their general audience dumber
  <zmoylan-pi> they go for the cliche rather than educate these days it seems
  <awilkins> Also quite like the houses made of expanded polystyrene bricks like LEGO that you then fill with concrete
  <zmoylan-pi> i liked the carlsberg bottle that was designed to be used as a housebrick when it was empty
  <diddledan> the other thing that annoys me about news reports is that the reporter usually insists on putting a pun or many into it
  <knightwise> wasnt that a heineken one
  <knightwise> I'm thinking of styrofoam bricks and wood when we do our home reno
  <zmoylan-pi> could be some other booze, i don't drink sorry
  <knightwise> we have been thinking about putting in an addition
  <knightwise> extention i mean
  <zmoylan-pi> heineken, yup http://inhabitat.com/heineken-wobo-the-brick-that-holds-beer/
  <diddledan> https://github.com/alex/what-happens-when
  <awilkins> That Heineken story makes my browser choke
  <zmoylan-pi> some good would come from all the empty bottles
  <awilkins> Ugh, whatever it is on that page totally locks up Firefox
  <awilkins> This seems to be a trend I've noticed recently
  <awilkins> Newspaper websites do it too
  <zmoylan-pi> works fine on my firefox, i use ghostery though so that might be stopping the nasty
  <awilkins> Closed all my Firefox windows. Process is still caning a CPI
  <awilkins> CPU
   * awilkins kill -9s it
  <diddledan> awilkins, it might be a rogue flash ad
  <awilkins> Not the plugin hosting process (has a separate process name, no?)
  <diddledan> it might do
  <awilkins> The website of The Independent does something similar
  <awilkins> Page scrolls really slowly, eats CPU
  <zmoylan-pi> newspapers do seem to be guilty of most addons sucking cpu at the same time
  <zmoylan-pi> i think it's to punish us for not buying a paper copy
  <awilkins> Or possibly to mine BitCoin for Rupert Murdoch
  <zmoylan-pi> or mine secrets for rupert murdoch, he got away with hacking once...
   * awilkins wonders if there are any distributed mining things that work by farming workunits out to js in peoples browsers
  <awilkins> Of course there is : http://www.bitcoinplus.com/miner/embeddable
  <awilkins> Bitcoin mining plugin for WordPress
  <awilkins> The dude only wants a 19%  cut!
  <MooDoo> i'll install it to my WP sites, would me I get 0.000000000000001 of a BC in about 20 years
  <awilkins> There's a WP site at my old work that has about 100 plugins in it
  <zmoylan-pi> tbh, i'd prefer my doddery relatives computers were mining bitcoins than sending spam
  <awilkins> Don't think they'd notice another one...
  <andrewebdev> I'm wondering, since the announcement of LXD I've not really seen much documentation and/or tutorials on it. Does anyone know where I can find docs on using it?
  <knightwise> p0p0k@t3ptl
  <knightwise> That is the name of a mountain in africa
  <awilkins> Nice coverup
  <awilkins> All we saw was
  <awilkins> ***********
  <knightwise> LOL
  <knightwise> nice one awilkins
  <zmoylan-pi> dibs on his paypal :-P
  <awilkins> That bitcoin miner plugin thing seems to be a Java applet
  <awilkins> +1 for speed -1 for getting people to run it
  <zmoylan-pi> if you sell it right you could need a 20 page list of instructions and some people would install it :-)
  <popey> hmm
  <awilkins> One that's pure js and has WebGL support : https://github.com/derjanb/hamiyoca
  <popey> seems my thinkpad doesn't want to be a soundblaster 16 or awe32
  <awilkins> AWE32 was a great card
  <zmoylan-pi> don't thinkpads also have an awful awful modem pretending to be a sound card driver?
  <MooDoo> dma=1 irq=5 iirc :D
  <zmoylan-pi> same irq as our network cards...
  <zmoylan-pi> base 320h
  <popey> yeah, says it cant find the card
  <popey> unsurprisingly
  <davmor2> popey: is this for dosbox by anychance?
  <zmoylan-pi> maybe some mad genius wrote a driver to make it think an ac'97 is a soundblaster in dos? :-)
  <popey> davmor2: no, real hardware
  <davmor2> popey: ah :)  try soundblaster pro
  <popey> not an option
  <knightwise> mpsyt :)
  <davmor2> popey: pc speaker
  <knightwise> Better then Spotify
  <popey> gravis, sb, sound man 16, pro audio spectrum, awe 32, soundscape, disney sound source, tandy sound source
  <popey> (duke 3d)
  <zmoylan-pi> ad lib
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <diddledan> not for much longer
  <davmor2> bigcalm: hello
  <bigcalm> o/
  <diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30948123
  <MooDoo> google also released 3 zero days for apple osx too
  <knightwise> quick question
  <knightwise> suppose I ssh into a machine from the command line and would like to launch an app
  <knightwise> how do i put that in one command line command
  <knightwise> ssh me@server:command or ssh me@server / command ?
  <Laney> laney@iota:~$ ssh vivid.local echo hello knightwise from \$\(hostname\)
  <Laney> hello knightwise from vivid
  <awilkins> knightwise, GUI app?
  <awilkins> ssh -X user@server 'command line'
  <knightwise> commmand line app
  <knightwise> the error i'm getting wehn i do it your way is : "the term environment variable is unset"
  <mapps> back y'all
  <mapps> back in the sun
  <mapps> :D
  <zmoylan-pi> natural light, get it off me!!
  <awilkins> knightwise, That sounds like an app-specific error
  <knightwise> mc ? doesnt strike me as an exotic app
  <mapps> ;]
  <awilkins> try  ssh user@server 'TERM=xterm mc'
  <awilkins> mc is ncurses
  <awilkins> since you're shelling straight in and just running it you're not starting a terminal on the server
  <awilkins> hence no TERM env var
  <awilkins> Since it can't predict terminal behaviour it's throwing a spaz
  <awilkins> set it to whatever your local term env says (gnome-terminal says xterm for me here)
  <knightwise> ha
  <knightwise> i"ll try
  <knightwise> IT WORKS :)
  <popey> ChunkzZ: has your internet connection improved since moving wifi channel?
  <Azelphur> muhahah, victory is mine, finally bypassed threes new tethering detection.
  <Azelphur> set up a SSH Server on the phone to socks proxy and am using tsocks for applications that don't support socks.
  <Myrtti> oh, they've got a tethering detection? bother.
  <Azelphur> Myrtti, yea, they always have, but up until the past couple months it had just been layer 7
  <Azelphur> Myrtti, now they are doing something new, I dunno what it is, at first I thought it was TTL but ping -t 65 doesn't get through.
  <Azelphur> whatever it is, it's clever I'll give themt hat
  <Azelphur> SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS >.>
  <Myrtti> tsk.
  <Azelphur> just realised I typed ^ in ubuntu-uk and not my channel, sorry >.>
  <Azelphur> not the place for that.
  <Azelphur> on a train, tunnels keep disconnecting my internet, first world problems :(
  <zmoylan-pi> but if you have no tunnels where would you run your trains?? :-)
  <shauno> bridges :)
  <zmoylan-pi> nah, proper trains have tunnels
  <SuperEngineer> but surley - trains should be using clouds - everybody using clouds - why not trains? Let's see how clever you are nowcloud users! [hurumph]
   * zmoylan-pi doesn't want to see a load bearing cloud as the weather might be nasty
  <SuperEngineer> lol
  <zmoylan-pi> i mean in ireland we run rail lines across bogs and those are fun
  <SuperEngineer> ...& as to the phrase " proper trains have tunnels".. anybody told Euro Tunnel that?  they seem to prefer the M20
  <zmoylan-pi> well if you build a rail line on a bog it eventually provides it's own tunnel as it sinks and closes over the train :-)
  <shauno> gotta admit, not so impressed with the trains in Ireland
  <shauno> I mean - they all go to dublin?  Who in their right mind ..
  <SuperEngineer> glug glug... "the expected arrival for dublin will be a bit late. We apologise for the delay"
  <SuperEngineer> I bog therefore I'm late
  <zmoylan-pi> trains in ireland are ok, cheaper often to get a flight from one end of country to the other, and quicker.  but trains are still popular
  <diddledan> shauno, to be fair pretty much every train in england ends up at "bristol temple-meads"
  <zmoylan-pi> there's a causeway in tipperary i think that seems to sink every 50-70 years.  eventually the next causeway will have been built on enough rubble to not sink
  <shauno> I'd quite like a line that heads south, so I can get to shannon instead of relying on dublin airport :/
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it's a long way to tipperary
  <SuperEngineer> ooooooooohh no!
  <zmoylan-pi> especially when you have to disembark, walk with luggage through a few feet of bog and then a few miles to next town to catch the linking bus
   * SuperEngineer stops clock on waiting for that 1!
  <diddledan> yeah, that's every commuter's nightmare phrase: rail replacement service
  <zmoylan-pi> well dublin airport is really just named dublin airport to confuse invading forces... :-P
  <zmoylan-pi> it's so remote from dublin that ryan air flies into it and calls it dublin airport
  <SuperEngineer> Got stuck there once.. was using ticket from manager who got ill...
  <SuperEngineer> ...plane went
  <SuperEngineer> 2tech
  <SuperEngineer> 2.
  <SuperEngineer> i went to #business lounge ;)
  <SuperEngineer> ...free food... oh, & free booze
  <SuperEngineer> me likey Dublin airport :D
  <zmoylan-pi> free booze... in ireland... i wonder what that costs them :-)
  <SuperEngineer> I wondered that at the time!
  <zmoylan-pi> well... till the free booze kicked in
  <SuperEngineer> ..but then had another freebie & forgot about it!  ;D
  <SuperEngineer> My main gripe with Dublin airport... they fixed the darned plane - no fair!
  <SuperEngineer> no free booze or food on plane
  <SuperEngineer> [except a muffin - no comment]
  <zmoylan-pi> a bran muffin... and then they charge to use the loo!  the fiends!!
  <shauno> I've spent so much time on ryanair, I was quite confused when Austrian fed us
  <SuperEngineer> definite lol
  <SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, ^
  <SuperEngineer> Here's a good one; man from BT apparently arrived this morning, declared telegraph pole unsafe & cut all lines without warning anybody so he could remove the pole!
   * SuperEngineer is back to using 3g dongle atm
  <zmoylan-pi> irony would be if after he cut the wires the pole fell...
  <SuperEngineer> yup
  <diddledan> SuperEngineer, I believe if it's off for more than 4 hours you're allowed to claim compensation
  <SuperEngineer> correct
  <SuperEngineer> already underway
  <diddledan> well done :-)
  <ali1234> i just found the stupidest bug ever
  <SuperEngineer> [though not sure re 4 hourd bit - but no hope till Monday is out of any time limit!]
  <ali1234> how do i report bugs against the upgrade tool?
  <SuperEngineer> a stupid bug, that's a bit technocratist!
  <ali1234> it's really stupid though
  <ali1234> 1. install 13.10
  <ali1234> 2. upgrade to 14.04
  <ali1234> 3. enable partner repo
  <ali1234> 4. install skype
  <SuperEngineer> surely you mean a bug of impaired mentality :D
  <ali1234> it doesn't work, because you get the version for 13.10
  <ali1234> developer of impaired mentality perhaps, but the bug is just plain stupid
  <SuperEngineer> ok - agreed
  <SuperEngineer> why not just install 14.04 first?
  <ali1234> yes, let me just get in my time machine and do that
  <zmoylan-pi> don't forget the lotto numbers
  <SuperEngineer> still waiting for those lotto numbers... that time machine must have a faulty starter motor
  <zmoylan-pi> you're waiting for someone to give you a delorean to install it
  <ali1234> it's funny how whenever i have to do anything computer related for anyone else i always hit a bug
  <ali1234> but i hardly ever do
  <zmoylan-pi> anytime i have to touch someones windows computer i usually have to wait a sizeable chunk of a gigabyte of updates to install
  <ali1234> bug 1414150
  <lubotu3> bug 1414150 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release upgrader doesn't update partner repo URL if it isn't enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414150
  <mapps> taken  eh
  <mapps> a 3rd one now..prob same as 1/2 no doubt
  <ali1234> what's a good OS image for raspberry pi that will work with 4GB card and allow me to test the audio and camera module?
  <ali1234> oh and wifi
  <brobostigon> raspbian
  <zmoylan-pi> though a 4gb card is on the small side these days
  <brobostigon> yes, my both, runs on 16gb sd cards, and they got filled very quickly.
  <zmoylan-pi> you think to yourself i'll only keep a tiny amount of data on them and the next thing you know you're connecting a 1tb drive... :-)
  <brobostigon> yep, :)
  <ali1234> well...
  <mapps> my pesky vpn isnt working grr
  <mapps> can connect but not access net..grmpf ive set ipforwarding on and the iptables rules
  <daftykins> diagnose it
  <daftykins> ping by IP, check routes...
  <daftykins> all the usual
  <mapps> yea going to
  <mapps> just a pain
  <mapps> especially because i forgot my charger for my big laptop LOL..double checked my bags before i left and somehow didnt consider charger
  <mapps> unpacked realised i dont have it so have to use my netbook for everything
  <daftykins> a fate worse than death
  <daftykins> mapps: hey the windows 10 image got updated - http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=522102
  <mapps> wonder how diff it is
  <mapps> lets see
  <daftykins> well it's definitely different to the first image they put out :>
  <mapps> apparently ws like -7  in heathrow last night
  <mapps> did feel cold when i got there heh
  <daftykins> wowzer
  <mapps> mustve been -2 or so at 6am
  <mapps> tethered my phone to laptop and watched old GOAT
  <mapps> BUT he lost
  <mapps> :((
  <daftykins> no idea what that is
  <mapps> ROGER THE FEDERER
  <mapps> fed express
  <mapps> :D
  <mapps> old greatest of all time
  <mapps> he
  <daftykins> aah
  <daftykins> we have a mate that looks exactly like him
  <daftykins> when we see him, we ask how the ol' tennis is going
  <diddledan> does anyone in the uk here have win10 installed?
  <diddledan> seems cortana doesn't like me :-(
  <mapps> daftykins,  does i thought
  <daftykins> diddledan: i'll have it up in a VM shortly
  <daftykins> downloading right now
   * daftykins goes back to making a sandwich
  <diddledan> daftykins, I'm getting cortana say that she's "unavailable to help in your location"
  <mapps> thought you already did
  <mapps> you deld old win10
  <daftykins> diddledan: did you download the UK ISO?
  <daftykins> mapps: yeah the old build doesn't update to the new
  <diddledan> daftykins, I upgraded in-place from an already installed 10
  <daftykins> meh i only have a VM with nothing on it, i'll just nuke it
  <daftykins> got on on my laptop here under vbox and one on the desktop with vmware ws
  <mapps> i almost lost Â£2500 on fed..my 3g saved me
  <mapps> lol
  <mapps> if i hadnt have been able to put the match on wouldnt have been able to switch:)
  <daftykins> or you could just not gamble :>
  <mapps> i was trading like a pro on betfair i prefer to say
  <mapps> :d
  <mapps> ;D
  <mapps> layed United at 1/5 for Â£1000 (200 quid risk) lay the short odds back the big odds1
  <mapps> fiinished 0-0..meanwhile my mug friend lost like 400 on it ..tsk
  <daftykins> o0
  <mapps> crazy how much yen is bet on stuff..5.8 million on the federer match 4.5 on united
  <mapps> imagine all that moey in 20 pound notes
  <mapps> :D
  <daftykins> haha
  <daftykins> my mate was working nuclear research in Tokyo, getting paid all in yen in cash. foreigners can't hold accounts or something he said, so he brings it all back to England
  <daftykins> next thing, the Japanese PM is doing some thing which drops the value so it's all worth way less, doh!
  <daftykins> ah i cannot cut this cathedral city cheddar for sandwiches without wanting a piece
  <mapps> lol
  <mapps> really
  <mapps> like suitcases full of cash
  <mapps> cant he get paid into a uk bank
  <diddledan> daftykins, cathedral city is nummy
  <ali1234> so anyway as i was saying
  <ali1234> i just want to test the hardware and i only hav a 4GB card
  <daftykins> mapps: i think the language barrier might've had something to do with his reluctance
  <mapps> heh
  <daftykins> gogo virtualbox, give me something other than a blank screen for win10 :P
  <ali1234> bringing a suitcase full of cash through customs tho...
  <ali1234> i can't imagine that being easy
  <daftykins> =]
  <mapps> 07827 668566wow
  <mapps> oops
  <mapps> wow android is diff to ios
  <mapps> i cant even figure out how to edit a contact
  <mapps> LOL
  <zmoylan-pi> you're supposed to fire up chrome and log into google and change it there like a good little user :-)
  <mapps> what?!
  <mapps> you cant do it on the phone?!
  <zmoylan-pi> you can but it can be annoying
  <mapps> yea
  <mapps> also its a PITA
  <mapps> if i ring a UK number it says call ended
  <mapps> have to add +44 to every contact
  <mapps> on my iphone if i call 079 xxx abroad it still works
  <daftykins> pfft it's easy
  <zmoylan-pi> shouldn't have to do that. i didn't when i used android phone
  <mapps> what about the second issue>
  <mapps> hmm
  <mapps> honestly 01483 47xxx call ended
  <daftykins> now that you travel a lot you should enter all numbers longhand
  <mapps> type +44 483 and it works
  <daftykins> that's quite funny, 01481 is the Guernsey area code
  <daftykins> :>
  <mapps> :D
  <zmoylan-pi> i just stopped the contacts sync and used the sim for storing numbers
  <daftykins> i only needed to remember 5 digits to call home when i was a kid over at friends ;_;
  <mapps> id rather force it to just work and call uk numbers like normal
  <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: negating the wonderful backup that is cloud data? tsk tsk
  <daftykins> i love not having to deal with that SIM junk anymore
  <zmoylan-pi> if it's important it wouldn't be in the cloud for every one to see
  <diddledan> I love cloud sync
  <diddledan> I'd be lost without it
  <zmoylan-pi> i liked sync on palm, i liked sync on psion, i don't like backing up personal data via internet.
  <diddledan> it just annoys me that each company needs their own silo
  <zmoylan-pi> psion had vcf, palm talked with that
  <daftykins> i had a series 3c with PsiWin :>
  <zmoylan-pi> simple, elegant, worked.  then wince came along and it all went wrong
  <zmoylan-pi> psiwin, the most complex vb app i ever locked horns with :-)
  <daftykins> diddledan: ugh what have they done to WIndows Update =|
  <zmoylan-pi> when it worked it was fantastic, when it didn't you'd swear a bit and get it working again
  <zmoylan-pi> vb and serial communications were never 100%
  <diddledan> daftykins, ?
  <daftykins> in win10
  <diddledan> I can't say I've noticed any diff?
  <daftykins> it ran a metro'y app which brought up a huge settings cog to be the windows update app now
  <daftykins> seems to be joined with backup and restore
  <daftykins> *recovery
  <diddledan> it's part of the new control panel
  <diddledan> the settings app and control panel are almost the same thing (supposedly) now
  <diddledan> or rather more is done via the settings app than the evilness that is the win32 control panel
  <daftykins> ;]
  <daftykins> hmm WU is gone from the Control Panel, that's all i spy
  <mapps> vb
  <mapps> urgh
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-24
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <daftykins> o/
  <popey> urgh
  <daftykins> that's how i feel ;)
  <davmor2> popey: that's how I felt ages ago
   * daftykins brings out the Branston
  <daftykins> i saw something quite sad in the supermarket earlier, the place now making the sandwiches for their lunch section thinks that "ham, cheese and pickle" is to be made with gherkins instead of branston :S
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <popey> outrage
  <popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/Vvx5oU3
  <popey> about right
  <davmor2> popey: I'm outraged there is no Links in there
  <daftykins> :P
  <davmor2> popey: or links2, or lynx, or wget and read the source it's like the matrix of browsers :D
  <knightwise> hey peeps
  <daftykins> heya
  <knightwise> hey. how ya doin daftykins
  <knightwise> im out shoppin with the wifr. theb
  <knightwise> irc on phone. sorrybfor typo
  <daftykins> mmm not too shabby ty, i think the ol' shingles is healing up now - slowly :) how's you?
  <daftykins> ah-har, not clothes i hope ;)
  <knightwise> yep
  <daftykins> D:
  <knightwise> and a dryer
  <popey> moo
  <penguin42> hey popey
  <daftykins> gents o/
  <zmoylan-pi> mammals o/
  <brobostigon> carbon based life forms.
  <zmoylan-pi> there is a bot in the channel, probably silicon based lifeforms too
  <popey> !botsnack
  <lubotu3> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
  <popey> \o/
  <popey> how to out a bot in one easy step :)
   * zmoylan-pi sticks with 'everything i sat is a lie'
  <zmoylan-pi> *say
  <zmoylan-pi> that and a nokia in a sock to take out terminators and i'm covered :-)
  <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: maybe that borg-killing picture
  <MartijnVdS> https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/2gwp37/why_did_picard_think_a_complex_impossible_shape/
  <MartijnVdS> http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Topological_anomaly
  <zmoylan-pi> couldn't we just email them an epub of escher? :-)
  <MartijnVdS> hmmm
  <MartijnVdS> (y)
  <popey> https://www.flickr.com/photos/88574960@N02/sets/72157632858317817/
  <popey> wow
  <daftykins> oh my word
  <popey> apparently done in their "lego room"
  <daftykins> how the other half live
  <shauno> the other half live in lego castles?
  <daftykins> that they do
  <daftykins> they're a lot smaller so we never notice
  <davmor2> WOW just WOW
  <diddledan> daftykins, did you get 10 installed?
  <diddledan> allo folks
  <directhex> daftykins: you had shingles? that sucks, i had that a couple of years ago
   * zmoylan-pi had that when i was teenager
  <directhex> i'm not convinced the meds weren't worse than the illness itself
  <diddledan> I had the pox when I was teeny
  <directhex> felt *so* pukey after my morning dose of antiretrovirals. yuck
  <penguin42> oh I hadn't realised they were using them for shingles
  <directhex> penguin42: risk of nerve damage
  <penguin42> directhex: From the drugs or not using the drugs?
  <directhex> not using
  <penguin42> nod
  <penguin42> I'll have to watch out in later life; I got chicken pox in my 30s
  <directhex> shingles is a VZV (chicken pox) re-activation on a spinal nerve, so it manifests in a patch on your skin for an area affected by a single major spinal nerve
  <directhex> if it's a nerve related to your face or eyes, you're in trouble
  <penguin42> (Oddly I was in hospital for an unrelated problem when I was about 9 when the rest of the ward had chicken pox and I didn't)
  <popey> hmm, is it possible (in windows) to raise the refresh rate above 60Hz? Mine doesn't seem to go any higher.
  <penguin42> popey: I suspect it depends on what the monitor tells it
  <popey> DVI if that matters.
  <popey> the help for the monitor suggests it can go to 75Hz
  <MartijnVdS> popey: depends on what the screen claims it can do
  <directhex> popey: at your target res?
  <popey> but the UI won't let me
  <MartijnVdS> popey: what does "xrandr" say?
  <popey> oh, I guess maybe not
  <popey> MartijnVdS: Windows :S
  <MartijnVdS> popey: oh :(
  <diddledan> there's not much reason to do so unless you're running 3d off it
  <MartijnVdS> My screen does 75Hz up to 1280x1024
  <MartijnVdS> and 60Hz above that
  <popey> oh okay, so probably not possible
  <popey> I just noticed flicker in the corner of the screen
  <directhex> popey: try feeding a proper .inf for your monitor, not relying on EDID/PnP profile
  <popey> will do
  <diddledan> interesting - 3 has bought o2
  <directhex> confirmed?
  <directhex> oh, yes. hm
  <brobostigon> i think there are still loads of hoops to go though, like competition approval etc.
  <popey> wonder what that will mean for giffgaff
  <directhex> concerns about price rises... people *do* know o2 was already one of the most expensive networks, right?
  <directhex> yeah, i wonder for giffgaff
  <brobostigon> and i believe, its is hutchison whampoa that has boought o2, not three directly.
  <directhex> technically, yes
  <DJones> Can't see it changing existing contracts
  <popey> heh, it can do 1024x768@75Hz!
  <popey> no higher
  <brobostigon> one would hope, it expands three's existing 3g/4g/lte, and will allow three customers to roam with o2 in lower signal areas.
  <diddledan> brobostigon, I would surmise that the first order of business would be to allow the two networks to roam between as you hope, and then eventually merge the infrastructures
  <brobostigon> yes, i would agree diddledan
  <ali1234> yeah better signal for three would be great
  <brobostigon> and more consistant data,
  <penguin42> curious, my VM router has a log message from 23/00/2015
  <diddledan> penguin42, magic
  <penguin42> diddledan: https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/6108006605325208145/6108006610806106050
  <diddledan> weird
  #ubuntu-uk 2015-01-25
  <zmoylan-pi> splitters
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, can't trust anyone
  <diddledan> daftykins, so it turns out that cortana doesn't work when the system is set to a british locale - only available in english (US) according to their forums
  <diddledan> I really wanted to give it a go
  <daftykins> diddledan: ah that figures, come to think of it i vaguely recall it's country limited too
  <daftykins> why don't you install the US image and proxy it via the US? :>
  <daftykins> perhaps via a digital ocean droplet or some such
  <diddledan> the version of cortana on phones (for winpho8.1) only became british capable a couple months ago
  <diddledan> lol
  <zmoylan-pi> not even the peoples popular front?
  <penguin42> does it get confused if you tell it you want to knock up a quick fix?
  <diddledan> you'da thunk they'd have made it available everywhere the phones can do it tho
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, the popular front? as in betty on the street corner's cleavage?
  <penguin42> diddledan: That is hard, language stuff like that is pretty new
  <daftykins> considering how xbox live goes down every monday night me and my friends play of late, perhaps MS aren't confident they can keep cortana running for all the people playing with win10 ;)
  <diddledan> maybe
  <mapps> hi all
  <mapps> hm
  <diddledan> yawn
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <diddledan> ello
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <davmor2> morning brobostigon diddledan how's life this fine morning?
  <brobostigon> morning davmor2
  <penguin42> hmm, why is my DNS broken
  <zmoylan-pi> did you hit it with a hammer?
  <zmoylan-pi> was it on a shelf and the cat knocked it off?
  <penguin42> no, but I just did and it's come back
  <zmoylan-pi> that'll teach it
  <zmoylan-pi> you'd be amazed the amount of wonky hardware that behaves perfectly when there's a good hammer handy
  <penguin42> well, this appears to have been software - restarted bind on my router, it was spewing 'no valid DS' for everything, which I think is dnssec stuff, but don't understand any more
  <daftykins> o0
  <daftykins> how rude of it
  <penguin42> yes, I'm not sure it's better or worse that restarting made it go away
  <zmoylan-pi> makes it feel... windowsy...
  <daftykins> ;)
  <penguin42> well, I always worry more with things like bind that something dodgy is happening
  <diddledan> penguin42, as long as bind stays bound you don't have a problem :-p
  <penguin42> diddledan: well a bound bind that doesn't reply to anything isn't much yse
  <daftykins> needs more glue ;)
  <diddledan> there's nothing quite like a good bit of bondage
  <DJones> diddledan: TMI
  <diddledan> :-p
   * zmoylan-pi hands around the forks, chopsticks and mind bleach
   * DJones joins zmoylan-pi and hands out a tazer
  <diddledan> DJones, TMI
  <zmoylan-pi> diddledan would probably enjoy that DJones
  <daftykins> welcome to the Sunday surgery on #ubuntu-uk
  <davmor2> I'll just stick with MjÃ¶lnir good as tazer and hitty thing
  <DJones> diddledan: Hey, you brought up the bondage
  <diddledan> DJones, and you continued it with your special toys
  <DJones> diddledan: You consider tazers as a "special toy" that is seriously to much information
  <diddledan> lol
  <DJones> Anybway, enough of your personal life......
   * DJones hands popey an eclectic guitar
  <DJones> (Yup, I spelt that how I meant)
  <daftykins> don't even want to know how that's used
   * daftykins whistles
   * zmoylan-pi breaks out the kazoos and hands them around
  <penguin42> DJones: Does that play floyd ?
  <DJones> penguin42: Probably more deep purple than pink floyd
  <davmor2> DJones: it's not very eclectic if it only play deep purple :P
  <zmoylan-pi> he can play barney the dinosaur on it for more purple... :-)
   * daftykins disabled TR-069 on his ISP supplied router to stop them connecting in
   * zmoylan-pi waits for daftykins to be denounced as a rebel and taken away by security forces
  <daftykins> NOOOOO!
   * daftykins gets dragged off through some double-doors
  <daftykins> just heard a nasty tale about an infected router over in the US
  <diddledan> daftykins, you rebel
  <diddledan> daftykins, yeah I don't like remote management backdoors
  <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9868532/
  <daftykins> what a bunch of cruft
  <daftykins> CWMP-S is what i just murdered
  <daftykins> the client looks for firmware but i doubt i'll ever see firmware
  <diddledan> stabby stab stab
  <daftykins> kind of tempting to just run my own device again
  <daftykins> at least i'd be in charge of it, then ;)
  <diddledan> daftykins, telnet!
  <daftykins> yeah that's what i'm logged in over XD
  <daftykins> i doubt it's externally facing ;D
  <daftykins> he says :(
  <diddledan> hope so
  <daftykins> you have to telnet in to dump the IPs it dishes out via DHCP, for DNS... then setup your own
  <daftykins> otherwise if you just add them to the web admin, it always gives out itself as a response in addition
  <daftykins> so buggy :D
  <daftykins> {Administrator}[upgrade]=>lastUpgradeInfo
  <daftykins> Last Upgrade Time    : 0001-01-01T00:00:00Z
  <daftykins> :D
  <zmoylan-pi> jesus's was a nipper?
  <zmoylan-pi> so... linux was in alpha then :-P
  <diddledan> I'm not sure but I think that was even before linus made his first announcement
  <daftykins> possibly before Linus learnt the f-word :o
  <diddledan> don't be silly
  <diddledan> linus was born knowing the f-word
  <zmoylan-pi> he always knew the word f...riday
  <diddledan> TGIFriday
  <diddledan> oh dear. new trend sweeping my facebook folk at the mo: they're all posting 7 facts about themselves because someone told them to.
  <daftykins> =|
  <daftykins> sign out, clear your cache, never look back
  <diddledan> lol
  <davmor2> diddledan: you can hear the bleating right?
  <daftykins> it's deafening
  <diddledan> baaa
  <diddledan> omg, did I just do that?!
  <diddledan> what have people done to me!?
  <zmoylan-pi> block facebook.com at your router, it's the only way to be sure
  <diddledan> but. my "friends"!
  <zmoylan-pi> friends don't let friends use facebook
  <diddledan> I don't "let" them, they do it without my consent
  <zmoylan-pi> just means you're not administrating enough punishment beatings to me :-P
  <diddledan> and we're back to the bondage again
  <diddledan> see, DJones, it's not just me :-p
  <zmoylan-pi> you don't need to tie them up to administer a beating
  <diddledan> lol
  <diddledan> semantics
  <zmoylan-pi> no, actions
  <mapps> hi all
  <brobostigon> evening mapps
  <DJones> Remind me not to watch "Slash - made in stoke" and to try headbanging along with the music with a shaved head
  <mapps> hey brobostigon
  <mapps> time to watch arrow:D
  <brobostigon> :)
  <mapps> u watch arrow?
  <brobostigon> i do not,
  <mapps> o
  <mapps> off to work back later
  <mapps> cya
  <Picada> Heyy
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-25
  <m0nkey_> Anyone else using BTSync? Do you have 'Pro' and is it worth it?
  <mapps> nie
  <mapps> yay
  <mapps> going ukraine in march
  <mapps> :D
  <\sv> for the second time in history i get to ask with genuine meaning; east or west mapps ?
  <mapps> going to kyiv and lyiv
  <mapps> so west
  <\sv> :) ahh cool
   * \sv wonders how long before a wall
  <mapps> tbh i think we will have soviet unin again in 20yrs
  <mapps> russia isnt happy
  <\sv> mapps, im not sure how approriate politics is for a logged ubuntu chnnel
  <mapps> true
  <mapps> if you have never been
  <mapps> you should:)
   * \sv hops in a tardis
  <\sv> ussr here i came
  <mapps> har har
  <knightwise> morning
  <\sv> morning knightwise
  <knightwise> yoyo
  <knightwise> how are you doing ,
  <zmoylan-pi> just remember to be careful out there, it's monday...
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <knightwise> hey MooDoo
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <knightwise> hey brobostigon
  <brobostigon> morning knightwise
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <MooDoo> morning mate
  <davmor2> MooDoo: How am ya mucka
  <JamesTait> Good evening all!  Have a rotten Monday, and a terrible Opposite Day! ð
  <knightwise> Why thanx JamesTait
  <JamesTait> Noisy in here today.
  <MooDoo> davmor2: I'm ok thanks :) what about your good self?
  <davmor2> MooDoo: too busy but wonderful thanks :)
  <MooDoo> good good :)
  <diplo> Anyone know if it's possible to install/utilise udisk1 rather than 2 on 15.10 ?
  <diplo> They've removed loads of functionality from udisks2 :/
  <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xweiQukBM_k
  <foobarry> does anyone here own a metal detector?
  <zmoylan-pi> i have the tricorder app for android which uses the compass to see variances in magnetic field... :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> i can show people my metal hip... :-D
  <_Sponge> Godd afternoon !
  <_Sponge> ***Good
  <_Sponge> How was the UbuCon ?
  <MooDoo> well from all the posts I've seen online about it, it looked awesome, then again that could of been scale lol
   * \sv god left the building when some guy decided inequality was a good idea
  <diddledan>  davmor2 I really have no idea where you pull these songs out from
  <diddledan> speaking of ubucon and scale - are any videos going to be posted I wonder?
  <foobarry> is "datacenter" the accepted UK spelling too?
  <diddledan> no
  <diddledan> datacentre
  <foobarry> ta
  <davmor2> diddledan: memory mostly :)
  <davmor2> diddledan: sometimes you have to pervert them for a good cause mostly because I think JamesTait picks the most obscure day to catch me out :)
  <davmor2> diddledan: I'm waiting for irony day so I can ironically point to ironic by alanis morrisette :D
  <diddledan> lol and lol
  <foobarry> i'm gonna blow your minds
  <foobarry> who wants their minds blown
   * davmor2 beats foobarry isn't
  <davmor2> bets even
  <foobarry> https://asciinema.org/
  <foobarry> check it out
  <foobarry> console screencasts in tiny files including copy paste
  <foobarry> amazeballs.
  <foobarry> i use a local version onsite and do tutorials and examples and workshops using it
  <dogmatic69_> hi all
  <davmor2> dogmatic69_: Hello
  <dogmatic69_> I have not used my PC for a week or two, just started it up and it wont boot :/
  <dogmatic69_> VFS: cant find root or something
  <dogmatic69_> sup davmor2
  <davmor2> dogmatic69_: congratulations on breaking your system
  <dogmatic69_> :(
  <dogmatic69_> I have not done anything
  <dogmatic69_> VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (0,0)
  <davmor2> dogmatic69_: I'm only teasing, might be a issue with the drive have a look at checkfs
  <dogmatic69_> can I do that from grub, or livedisk....
  <davmor2> dogmatic69_: have a look online for the error and see if I'm right first don't want you running something and making it worse, it isn't an error I've hit before
  <dogmatic69_> only things I can find is "I fixed this with a format and reinstall"
  <dogmatic69_> :/
  <davmor2> dogmatic69_: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1751574
  <dogmatic69_> been on that one
  <dogmatic69_> ls (hd0,1)/boot/grub # Should see a lot of *.mod files
  <dogmatic69_> I get errors :/
  <dogmatic69_> busy building a live USB
  <davmor2> https://www.maketecheasier.com/check-repair-filesystem-fsck-linux/
  <dogmatic69_> doubt any HDD will work after having a multimeter poking around its internals :D
  <dogmatic69_> gah live disk wont even boot
  <dogmatic69_> after I pick 'try before you buy' it just goes blank. LCD starts blinking its led like there is no source
  <dogmatic69_> right, so live disk wont even work....
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-26
  <mapps> hi all
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Australia Day! ð
  <JamesTait> No Men At Work or Neighbours theme tune, thank you. ð
  <JamesTait> davmor2, that means you!
  <davmor2> pfff
  <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwlxeYA1SQI
  <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D-LmRNdQiQ
  <davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers you pretty well, one is not neighbours and the other isn't Men At Work :P
  <JamesTait> Oh, I forgot about Home & Away (understandable).
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
  <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
  <davmor2> morning brobostigon
  <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
  <MooDoo> davmor2: ello ow am ya!?
  <brobostigon> morning davmor2
  <davmor2> MooDoo: Am good ta, 'ow am yow?
  <MooDoo> davmor2: I'm coping :)
  <davmor2> MooDoo: oh that good hey :)  cheer yourself up and listen to absolute 80's  :)
  <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah that'll do it for now lol
  <MooDoo> :)
  <foobarry> whats the word i'm looking for
  <foobarry> if i want another way to say that i want editorial control over changes to a website to achieve a harmonious writing style across the site
  <foobarry> instead of harmonious
  <foobarry> consistent look and feel ?
  <foobarry> that should do. thanks guys
  <davmor2> foobarry: don't mention it.....no no really don't ;)
  <_Sponge> Blustery day here. Rain on , than off, then on again ...
  <davmor2> _Sponge: so England then
  <_Sponge> No ManxLand.
  <_Sponge> not that it matters.
  <_Sponge> Did anyone see that FairTaxTown documentary on the Beeb ?
  <_Sponge> My friend, the Lady from the Isle of Man, was on that.
  <awilkins> I did
  <awilkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ygl19
  <awilkins> TLDW : Yes, it's perfectly possible for small businesses to use the same tax-avoidance schemes as the big boys
  <awilkins> TBH I think the only thing that will get HMRC and the government to fix the situation is when someone commercializes tax-avoidance for small business
  <awilkins> Given that 99% of businesses in the UK are small businesses, there's a market there
  <directhex> wasn't that what the did at the end?
  <directhex> selling their "fair tax town" formula?
  <awilkins> I don't think they actually went through with it
  <awilkins> Currently they are still on the Light Side of the Tax
  <awilkins> They created a viable tax avoidance scheme but are only using it as a campaigning tool right now AFAICT
  <awilkins> The ringleader is running for head of the HMRC board
  <awilkins> https://www.change.org/p/consider-steve-lewis-for-next-chief-executive-of-hmrc-board-peoplestaxman
  <awilkins> From their front page : "The Fair Tax Town Scheme is designed to put us in a strong negotiating position with HMRC, and not to avoid taxâ¦"
  <awilkins> Actually using the tax avoidance scheme would presumably be the nuclear option
  <knightwise> yo peeps
  <zmoylan-pi> o/
  <knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi how are you due
  <zmoylan-pi> better than your autocorrect? :-)
  <knightwise> Haha :)
  <knightwise> Fewwy Funnah
  <zmoylan-pi> proper keyboards for the non abbreviated win \o/
  <knightwise> The one on my mbp is big enough .. i just type too fast
  <zmoylan-pi> no such thing as typing too fast... merely a computer too slow to keep up
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: stop using that zx81 and use something a little more modern you know like an amiga or atari then ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> a zx81? do you think i'm made of money... ::hugs zx80::
  <davmor2> hahahaha
  <zmoylan-pi> and stay away from those new fangled ram packs... nothing but wobble... :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> i was tempted when i saw someone had connect a zx spectrum to twitter till i saw the network card used had a more powerful processor than the speccy
  <davmor2> I liked the guy that turned the raspi into a 48k emulator and installed it in an old spectrum I thought that was genius and all so he could play jetset willy :)
  <zmoylan-pi> it's not the same using a pc keyboard in an emulator somehow...
  <zmoylan-pi> maplins sell a fuse keyboard that is very reminiscent of the bbc keyboard.  tempting but too expensive
  <davmor2> ah the good old bbc micro :) whisks me back to school :)
  <MooDoo> used to play chucky egg or frak on our bbc at schoo :)
  <davmor2> we weren't really allowed to play games on them except for adventure games as those meant you read stuff as they were all text based :)
  <mapps> hm new x files was ok
  <diddledan> mapps: I liked it
  <diddledan> mapps: way to cluster filesystem-check our collective minds :-p
  <diddledan> everything we thought we knew about the cannon of the x-filesâ¦ nope, youâre wrong
  <awilkins> Mulder : now a skeptic
  <awilkins> Scully : Enrolled in a commune in the Nevada desert that wears tinfoil hats and sends messages to aliens by drinking phosphorescent chemicals and peeing pictograms onto the vast desert mesa
  <awilkins> Smoking Man : wears a nicotine patch
  <awilkins> Lone Gunmen : all happily married
  <diddledan> awilkins: lmao
  <moreati> awilkins: married to other people, or to each other?
  <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
  <popey> hi bigcalm
  <popey> no lag on steamlink even on wifi here
  <bigcalm> popey: I haven't used mine for some time now, might have improved
  <popey> i just booted it up, did an OTA update and played GTA5
  <popey> didn't notice
  <bigcalm> popey: the issue I, and directhex, found was that now and then there would be a freeze in game play. Followed by restored game play, but the last action of the controller repeated many times.
  <bigcalm> Resulting in walking off ledges in Lego games mostly
  <popey> maybe I haven't played long enough to trigger that
  <popey> or don't have those games
  <bigcalm> This is over wifi n and LAN over power
  <bigcalm> It wasn't any one game, happens for all streaming things
  <bigcalm> As I say, I haven't used it for some time. Might have been fixed
  <bigcalm> directhex: Steam link still causing lag pockets for you?
  <_Sponge> knightwise: Still there ?
  <mapps> hmm
  <mapps> what to watch
  <brobostigon> the simpsons, :)
  <mapps> heh
   * davmor2 just leaves this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0N4twV28Mw
  <diddledan> Iâve started on the hot-crossed buns already - itâs not even february!
  <davmor2> diddledan: dude that is so wrong
  <diddledan> :-p
  <diddledan> yet it feels so right
  <davmor2> you simply shouldn't stop eating hot-cross buns :)
  <zmoylan-pi> -5 points for use of the word dude... unless you work(ed) for dell... :-P
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: -5 for the use of that word that I use all the time :P
  <mapps> heh
  <mapps> lol shock numerous people claiming they had the 33mil winning ticket
  <diddledan> do they really think that camelot wonât check?
  <mapps> who knows, some people ust want attention from papers/tv
  <mapps> how could camelot check though if you bought the ticket in a shop and then chucked it away
  <diddledan> they wonât pay if you donât have the ticket IIRC
  <mapps> ya i thought so..so saying you binned it or washed it
  <zmoylan-pi> just attach the genital electrodes and put them through lie detector test... not saying it's accurate but will thin the herd... :-D
  <mapps> means it goes unclaimed right?
  <mapps> how did this 21 yr old die..says she got wdged between 2 sofas on a drinking session?!
  <diddledan> o_O
  <mapps> some young girl travelling in australia
  <mapps> said she was on beta blockers and a history of palpitations..still seems odd
  <mapps> caught the end of murder games bbc3 docu drama about a 14yr old groomed by an 18yr old
  <mapps> pretty sad story;/
  <diddledan> mapps: lucifer is fun
  <mapps> i was looking at that earlier as it happens
  <diddledan> just watching the first ep
  <mapps> started 'power' ..heard of it? it sounded whack
  <mapps> but 7.8 , 8.2/10 on tv.com/imdb
  <diddledan> donât think I know that one
  <mapps> so figured id give it a try...directed by 50 cent
  <mapps> ima download the bbc3 doc, it's strange to think something as innocent as playing games could endup in murder
  <zmoylan-pi> did you not notice all the gun fighting over cards in westerns?
  <mapps> heh
  <mapps> but i mean this is young kids being groomed over game forums and team speak stuff
  <mapps> must be so many vile people lurking on forums/server trying to groom kids, impossible to get a #
  <diddledan> mapps: I want to know why I havenât been groomed by any vile people. Iâm most disappointed
  <mapps> you want to be? to troll them i assume?
  <mapps> or report them
  <diddledan> mapps: itâs just that I must be offensive or something
  <mapps> heh
  <diddledan> ooh, just spooted the credit on lucifer - itâs exec produced by jerry bruckheimer
  <mapps> i thought i saw lucifer mentioned months back..maybe it was a pre air
  <diddledan> I mentioned it a while back when I saw the pre-air trailer
  <mapps> aha47
  <diddledan> apparently itâs perfectly acceptible for the fbi to run child-porn sites: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/judge-rules-fbi-running-child-porn-site-for-13-days-was-not-outrageous-conduct-playpen
  <zmoylan-pi> and the nsa's giant hoovering up of all data probably is largest child porn collection
  <mapps> hmm
  <mapps> a honeypot diddledan?
  <zmoylan-pi> who knew basic was evil... :-) https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/jan/25/johnny-cashs-basic-threat/
  <mapps> cya work time
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-27
  <_Sponge> Still up ?
  <_Sponge> www.FreiendsReunited.co.uk just went bust ... https://medium.com/@liife/the-story-so-far-3c312f885fb2#.1waxlsmvn
  <_Sponge> The creator sold it to ITV for Â£125 million in 2005.
  <_Sponge> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_Reunited
  <_Sponge> Sad to see it go.
  <_Sponge> Could it run as a semi-offline App in Ubuntu ?
  <_Sponge> Probably worth Â£10 grand or so.
   * _Sponge wonders how messaging would work with six-weekly updates ?
  <_Sponge> Probably so few people using it that you'd run the whole messaging service on about 20MegaBytes.
  <mapps> morning
  <mapps> kinda sad, wonder why it failed
  <mapps> when facebook became so big
  <knightwise> hey mapps
  <mapps> sup mate
  <knightwise> doin ok ;  how bout you ?
  <mapps> not bad:)
  <MooDoo> howdy all
  <knightwise> heya MooDoo
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <bittin-> morning
  <MooDoo> morning
  <knightwise> hey MooDoo
  <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Chocolate Cake Day! ð ð
  <davmor2> JamesTait: well this was easy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQCQnARnKbc
  <JamesTait> davmor2, that's just chocolate though. Where's my cake?
  <davmor2> JamesTait: the cake is a lie but if you must https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOMSZQ7RacQ
  <davmor2> JamesTait: or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMgU5B2TZIA
  <JamesTait> davmor2, I think my ears are bleeding.
  <davmor2> JamesTait: Hey you wanted cake I told you the cake was a lie :)
  <foobarry> can i put /quote PASS in my irssi config?
  <foobarry> to automatically login and pass
  <Myrtti> for freenode?
  <Myrtti> or in general?
  <foobarry> for each irc net , but irc.net in particular because i keep getting disconnected and losing connection
  <foobarry> and it isn't logging me back in automagically
  <Myrtti> If freenode, check http://freenode.net/sasl/
  <Myrtti> ircnet has a password? that's new
  <foobarry> oh, my bouncer does
  <foobarry> thanks
  <Myrtti> also /help network
  <\s__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14678503/ HUH?
  <\s__> why is 91.189.91.15 down? (it isnt)
  <directhex> it's not
  <\s__> yeah but it says it is
  <directhex> it says 404
  <\s__> 404 means not found
  <directhex> yes.
  <directhex> because utopic (14.10) isn't available on the upgrade server any more
  <\s__> 404 not found thus down but when i go there it isnt
  <\s__> right?
  <\s__> so i have to start over in april?
  <directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
  <\s__> thats stupid
  <\s__> urgh
  <directhex> you can upgrade from LTS to LTS (so you can upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04, in april), or you need to do some manual hackery to do 14.04->14.10->15.04->15.10 to do short-term upgrades after some of those short-term releases are EOL
  <\s__> anual hackery to do 14.04->14.10->15.04->15.10 is what i was trying to do
  <\s__> im annoyed; im going to go shoot some pharmacuticals (im on cancer drugs.. i may have cancer but heh im still humorous)
  <Myrtti> gee, thanks. Now I've got Elton John's Circle of Life in my head...
  <Myrtti> damnit
  <davmor2> Myrtti: lucky you I have hit me baby one more time stuck in my head
  <Myrtti> well it's not that bad clearly, how hard can babies hit you?
  <davmor2> Myrtti: you might want to try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbelmY
  <Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Z2BDDogCI
  <davmor2> Myrtti: nice
  <mapps> afternoon
  <Laney> stuuuuuudent loan freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
  <davmor2> \o/ ota 9
  <diddledan> Laney: achievement unlocked!
  <Laney> I made a manual payment to do it
  <Laney> martin lewis would have me for breakfast
  <Seeker`> :O
  <Seeker`> I hate the idea of paying off my student loan faster than I have to. I also hate having a student loan. Currently I hate the former more than the latter.
  <Seeker`> I think I've still got ~4k left
  <diddledan> davmor2: +1 on the sweet like chocolate choice
  <davmor2> diddledan: hahaha :)
  <davmor2> Laney: Congratulation dude :)  How long did that take?
  <Laney> davmor2: I graduated in 2008 :P
  <Laney> but didn't actually start repaying for a few years after that
  <Seeker`> I graduated in 2008 too. And started repaying that year. Not fair :P
  <davmor2> Laney: that's not too shabby at all then dude well done, what you gonna put that money toward now your house and get your mortgage paid off faster?
  <Laney> ummm
  <Laney> got some "home improvements" to get done
  <davmor2> Laney: oh well that's an investment too :)
  <Laney> save up for that canal boat
  <Laney> ohhh yeahhhh
   * Laney is going to retire by 40
  <diddledan> :-o
  <Laney> hahaha as if
  <Laney> good to have dreams though, right?
  <diddledan> I don't think I'll ever be able to retire :-p
  <davmor2> Laney: no you won't you love the pain of software too much ;)
  <diddledan> \o/ soft wares!
  <diddledan> or should that be warez?
   * diddledan shows his 90s illegal download knowledge
  <Laney> davmor2: then I'll cruise around the waterways of the UK fixing the bugs that bother *me* and not ones which QA engineers dig up :P
  <davmor2> Laney: pfff you make it sound like I have to look :P
  <Laney> got to keep each other in work eh
  <Laney> (for now...)
  <diddledan> davmor2: do you attract bugs like daftykins does with hard disks?
  <diddledan> speaky of whom.. where's dafty?
  <davmor2> diddledan: No, no I write the bugs and destroy developers hopes and dreams
  <diddledan> \o/
  <mapps> hi all
  <davmor2> mapps: hello
  <mapps> hi:D
  <\sv> freenode.net is down
  <\sv> its down
  <\sv> down i tell you
  <zmoylan-pi> âª the net came back, the very next day... â«
  <davmor2> gotta love that the PM is blaming Labour for Google not paying it's taxes for 5 years now who have been in power again for the last 5 years.........
  <foobarry> google keyboard sucks
  <foobarry> been using it and putting up for too long. gotta see if swype is still around
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-28
  <mapps> hi;[
  <mapps> ;]
  <Guest40989> morning all
  <Guest40989> sigh
  <MooDoo> ah lost connection again
  <Myrtti> MooDoo: srsly, SASL
  <Myrtti> we ordered a hard case for my lappy few days back. Will report how it turns out.
  <Myrtti> http://www.ipearl-inc.com/dell-xps13.html
  <MooDoo> Myrtti: nah it's more my virgin media connection, it drops out for a bit then ah i don't know lol
  <Myrtti> yes, but if you have SASL, your client with auto authenticate to your account
  <Myrtti> that's the point
  <moreati> and you don't get nickserv /msg ing you every time
  <Myrtti> and you'll authenticate before joining any channels
  <Myrtti> guaranteed, unless services have gone awol
  <davmor2> Morning All
  <MooDoo> morning davmor2
  <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Data Privacy Day! ð
  <foobarry> hooray for lets encryp
  <foobarry> t
  <MooDoo> foobarry: only if there is a back door thank you very much :)
  <foobarry> hmm
  <foobarry> maybe there is
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
   * foobarry wave
   * zmoylan-pi surfs
  <brobostigon> o/
  <SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WipM3SAYqK4 - linux sucks 2016 is out!
  <davmor2> JamesTait: Got you covered bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5p-uspcgRY
  <brobostigon> https://github.com/zalun/mercurius-irssi/issues/4
  <gh00st> join #corporate
  <\sv> sasl means i can log into the same account here and not have to og out of my lappy?
  <Myrtti> you can do that even without sasl
  <diddledan> davmor2: I've not heard that tune before - it is a fun one. and very good for the subject of JamesTait's day. good choice!
  <diddledan> SuperMatt: thanks for the linux sucks link - I love those presentations.. watching in a mo
  <davmor2> diddledan: it's not the version I was looking for, I think the version I knew was like late 70's early 80's but it was the same lyrics so it did :)  The version I had took in the back of my mind was a bit more pop-y
  <diddledan> the resurgence of proprietary causes neckbeards to say "and we woulda gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids" :-p
  <diddledan> linux voice want to make a book: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1644407908/beep-beep-yarr
  <m0nkey_> Evenin
  <diddledan> ello m0nkey_
  <diddledan> the mains voltage has been strangely high of late - my UPS currently says the mains is at 248 right now
  <m0nkey_> diddledan: it can go anywhere between 210 and 260 from my experience.
  <m0nkey_> It's the amps that you have to worry about
   * zmoylan-pi remembers vividly the thud as my father was flipped across the room by step down transformer he made to increase the amps of house voltage
  <m0nkey_> Amps is the killer, not volts.
  <m0nkey_> I've eaten 240V and 13A and survived. However, my arm hurt for a few days. It's not fun being electrocuted.
  <diddledan> TV repair men regularly got 30kV belts off the UHT
  <diddledan> (have I got the right acronym there?)
  <diddledan> maybe I mean the LOPT?
  <m0nkey_> if it dont contain the amps, it'll hurt but wont kill.
  <m0nkey_> but yeah, the old tube tv's.. had fun in our local tv repair shop, was my dad's friend.
  <diddledan> aye
  <m0nkey_> arcing voltages to a grounded screwdriver.. fun times :)
  <diddledan> these days everyone is scared of anything over 50V as though high-voltage is evil
  <diddledan> (dad's in the trade so he hears all the nonsensical stuff :-p)
  <m0nkey_> heh, i knew a sparky that would often invite me to hold either the positive or nagative 240V mains line :)
  <m0nkey_> perfectly safe if you are wearing rubble soles and only holding one of the two
  <m0nkey_> rubble?
  <m0nkey_> lol
  <m0nkey_> rubber
  <m0nkey_> although rubble would also be non-conductive
  <zmoylan-pi> if it's dry
  <zmoylan-pi> i've been electrocuted by mains and it was nothing to the pain i got from shock from piezo spark from cigarette lighter.  my arm was ached for entire day
  <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: ouch @ the piezo
  <m0nkey_> anyway, back to work for me
  <m0nkey_> back later
  <zmoylan-pi> as a curious kid i placed a wire in to see if the spark was powerful.... you live and learn :-)
  <diddledan> tata
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <diddledan> a million ways to die in the west: very fun film
  <diddledan> there's a nice cameo by Christopher Lloyd
  <m0nkey_> the hot topic of Montreal right now.. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/burgundy-lion-oqlf-1.3423616
  <mapps> went and registered for my gibraltar id card yay
  <mapps> one fool says 'are you registerring to become giraltarian' uh no what would be the point..0 dfff to being british
   * m0nkey_ is a confirmed Canadian
  <diddledan> m0nkey_: the Quebecoise are a bit odd like that
  <diddledan> "how dare you use words!"
  <m0nkey_> I'm not a girl
  <m0nkey_> It's Quebecois
  <diddledan> oops
  <diddledan> sorry me :-p
  <mapps> youre canadian?
  <diddledan> he is now
  <mapps> my friend here is, from winnipeg
  <mapps> aka winterpeg
  <mapps> ;]
  <diddledan> mormon decided to renounce brutishness :-p
  <diddledan> err
  <diddledan> britishness**
  <m0nkey_> I'm a card carrying Brit and Canadian.
  <mapps> dual citizenship i imagine
  <diddledan> what about geekistan?
  <diddledan> I made my own geek membership card.. I'm not sure that counts
  <mapps> lol
  <gebbione> hi all, somehow recently i experience something strange, while lots of apps are open some sort of panic happens and the ubuntu machine locks out the account ... when entering again i have lost all apps
  <gebbione> i.e. it is like a new session
  <\sv> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14691668/ what happening
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-29
  <m0nkey_> I've decided I've gone slightly nuts
  <m0nkey_> I'm installing ESXi on a Intel Celeron machine, where I injected the Realtek NIC driver.
  <m0nkey_> Yes, that nuts.
  <diddledan> java plugin is dead: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/entry/moving_to_a_plugin_free
  <diddledan> m0nkey_: I think you're beyond help there
  <m0nkey_> Well, it installed and is on the network
  <diddledan> wow
  <diddledan> I didn't know ESXi even did that (installation. and network. whodatunkit?)
  <m0nkey_> admittedly, it's only ESXi 5.5.. 6.0 wont run
  <m0nkey_> Heck, getting 5.5 on it is a win for me
  <diddledan> I thought getting ESXi in general was win
  <diddledan> or lose. depending on your perspective :-p
  <m0nkey_> i've been screwing around with proxmox, xenserver, kvm on debian, etc.. but i just like esxi
  <m0nkey_>  and we start installing a debian VM :)
  <m0nkey_> diddledan, it was crazy.. but it's working
  <diddledan> \o/
  <m0nkey_> got a couple of VMs going, it seems perfectly happy
  <m0nkey_> diddledan, you downloading something?
  <diddledan> erm
  <m0nkey_> maybe it's not you :)
  <diddledan> nope
  <diddledan> I was having trouble with a video conference the other day too
  <m0nkey_> nvm.. i know who it is now :)
  <diddledan> oh it's your end?
  <m0nkey_> yeah
  <m0nkey_> I know who it is leaching shit off me now :)
  <m0nkey_> Anyway, tis my bedtime
  <diddledan> nn
  <m0nkey_> night fella
  <\sv> m0nkey_,
  <diddledan> how does that work? negative interest rates in japanland?!
  <diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/27/vmware_fusion_and_workstation_development_team_fired/
  <mapps> hi all
  <mapps> sup7
  <\sv> seriously.... all i want is a vacuum i dont have carpets. whys that hard?
  <MooDoo> morning all
  <\sv> MooDoo, mornin
  <Guest62408> morning peeps
  <knightwise> Tron Soundtrack ,Headphones, terminal window .... #amiahackeryet ?
  <MooDoo> knightwise: no, it's not 2am ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> it is somewhere on the planet
  <MooDoo> HACK THE PLANET HACK THE PLANET
   * zmoylan-pi listens to wind outside and settles for nailing bits of it down instead...
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <MooDoo> morning davmor2
  <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Fun At Work Day! ð
  <MooDoo> it's only fun as it's friday
  <davmor2> JamesTait: how about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBShN8qT4lk
  <zmoylan-pi> today is watch people using umbrellas impersonate mary poppins day...
  <knightwise> zmoylan-piha
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <knightwise> hey brobostigon
  <brobostigon> hi knightwise
  <MooDoo> howdy
  <knightwise> Ranger is a pretty sweet filebrowser :)
   * brobostigon neds to write up a bug on ubuntu touch, r227 breaks bluetooth.
  <brobostigon> needs*
  <popey> brobostigon, i think it's known. saw someone else mention it
  <brobostigon> popey: ah ok, thats good its known.
  <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/libhybris/+bug/1539566
  <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1539566 in Canonical System Image "Bluetooth dead on mako and flo." [Critical,New]
  <brobostigon> ah thank you.
  <davmor2> yay my bug is popular who'd of thunk it
  <davmor2> brobostigon: 227 on what channel
  <brobostigon> davmor2: rc-proposed.
  <davmor2> brobostigon: what device?
  <brobostigon> mako
  <davmor2> brobostigon: so it is the bq-aquaris channel not the rc-proposed channel phew yeap same issue, libhybris broked it should be fixed on Tuesday image, or you can roll back 3 images if you need bt working now
  <brobostigon> davmor2: http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris.en/mako/ it seems to be that channel. ah i see, oh dear. thank you.
  <diddledan> morning
  <davmor2> diddledan: Morning
  <davmor2> MOOOOOOO!
  <diddledan> dooooo
  <davmor2> diddledan: :)
  <shauno> revisting an old question .. any recommendations for email apps on ubuntu phone yet?  (other than dekko ..)
  <diddledan> omg
   * diddledan prods shauno to see if the apparition is real
  <shauno> moo.
  <diddledan> o/
  <diddledan> I think the standard answer is "just use dekko"
  <diddledan> though I don't really know much about the phone
  <shauno> I've tried, it doesn't work
  <shauno> (it gets an "unexpectedhere: could not parse list: expected a list" when it tries to list folders.  apparently dovecot's a little too esoteric for it)
  <diddledan> weird
  <shauno> my phone's off being fixed, so this is all I've got 'till friday.  and .. well I didn't expect much.  but it still didn't deliver
  <shauno> sms works though!  that was first on my very short list.  3g kinda works, once you figure out how to trick it into working.  email doesn't, and jabber doesn't exist.
  <diddledan> :-(
  <diddledan> grade C-: must try harder?
  <zmoylan-pi> no web interface for the email service?
   * zmoylan-pi slums it with gmail in opera since ms killed the nokia mail service that was a nice little app
  <diddledan> opera? oh yeah, you use idiots phones
  <diddledan> :-p
  <zmoylan-pi> wanna play phone conkers? you hit my phone with your phone, i hit your phone with my phone.  we'll see which one wins... :-D
  <diddledan> bonkers conkers
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: your on http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/74/32/63440132340612/0/from-backpack-transceiver-smartphone-visual-history-mobile-phone.w654.jpg :D
  <zmoylan-pi> that's just a battery pack... i reckon my nokia can take it... :-)
  <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no the whole thing it the phone the receiver part is just that so it is battery and transceiver and aerial etc
  <m6lpi> \sv: hey
  <davmor2> hello
  <\sv> m6lpi, hey
  <m6lpi> how goes?
  <\sv> its ok neil
  <m6lpi> good good
  <popey> ebenink!
  <m6lpi> ?
  <m6lpi> popey: you drunk again ?
  <popey> "again"
  <popey> No ossifer, I'm drunk dink
  <m6lpi> though in fairness you were well behaved at oggcamp
  <diddledan> wait, it's Friday.. what are you all doing being social and drinking alcohol for?!
  <diddledan> Friday is coding night
  <diddledan> and Saturday is sleep after coding till 5am
  <diddledan> were there any recordings made of the ubucon@scale?
  <Myrtti> it's also FOSDEM, I'm told
  <Myrtti> so is it the Belgian beer?
  <zmoylan-pi> nah, he's drinking imported british beer... :-)
  <diddledan> beeer
  <diddledan> I have none :-(
  <brobostigon> :(
   * brobostigon points at his crate of franziskaner in the kitchen, and gets diddledan one.
  <diddledan> \o/
  <brobostigon> :)
  <diddledan> danke
  <diddledan> beer. good. me. drink.
  <diddledan> man. grr.
  <brobostigon> :)
  <brobostigon> yw.
  <diddledan> omg, blade runner was set 3 years from now and one of the replicants was created this year
  <diddledan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Blade_Runner_characters#Roy_Batty
  <zmoylan-pi> and they're making a sequel...
  <zmoylan-pi> though i can't see any sequel making all the fans happy
  <diddledan> :-(
  <diddledan> they ruined it already with the many reedits, didn't they?
  <zmoylan-pi> well.... if you don't like one version of blade runner you can always wait for the next one... :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> the first one was special as there was nothing else like it at the time...
  <zmoylan-pi> first dvd i bought when i finally got a dvd player...
  <diddledan> I think the first DVD I acquired was a bundled jobby with my DVD drive
  <diddledan> specifically sphere, iirc
  <diddledan> I had the blade runner game as the first DVD-based game that I played
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-30
  <mapps> hi
  <\sv> can i invoice hmrc for time taken to do a tax return?
   * \sv will invoice them 46.87p for the time taken. it is nothing but mere coincidence that i owe Â£46.86p in tax
  <zmoylan-pi> because civil servants have such a sense of humour they won't put you on list for full investigation...
  <\sv> well... it'dcost them more than theyd get
  <\sv> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14729306/ show my working
  <zmoylan-pi> i don't think you understand their methods yet....
  <\sv> no i dont
  <\sv> anyone able to help?
  <Myrtti> It's not worth your time. just pay up.
  <\sv> Myrtti, i worked out i owe less than 10 quid actially. but thats before i apply for tax rebate/deductions
  <ali1234> if you want to make life difficult for HMRC, try to make it so that what you owe them or they owe you is 99p or less
  <ali1234> but not exactly zero
  <ali1234> especially if they owe it to you, because they won't ever actually pay it because it is less than Â£1
  <ali1234> but they'll send you lots of extra paperwork for no reason, which you can completely ignore
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
   * awilkins admires his multiscreen setup and plays spotify:track:5ypA0RZ7Wdis2a9QtSTL54
  <foobarry> https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning might be of use to unity engine ppl
  <locodir-user> Hello
  <locodir-user> Is anyone online?
  <guestiguess> Hello?
  <guestiguess> Is anyone online?
  <bashrc> I am, but not paying much attention to irc
  <ali1234> if i post to a facebook group and the admin deletes it, can i still see the post?
  <ali1234> answer: no
  <knightwise> hey guys
  <diddledan> evening
  <penguin42> indeed it is
   * penguin42 wonders when the phone exchange codes changed to numerical prefixes; there's an old shop being renovated and has a letter prefix on it
  #ubuntu-uk 2016-01-31
  <mapps> 3 eps left s2 of power
  <knightwise> morning mapps
  <knightwise> started watching "the expanse" yesterday
  <knightwise> not a bad show
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <MooDoo> morning
  <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
  <MooDoo> :)
  <brobostigon> :)
  <mapps> hi all;]
  <mapps> on last ep of power now yay
  <mapps> s2e10 cool show
  <SuperEngineer> Since reinstal of 14.04.03 I have a niggle... I'm sure clicking icon on active app in Launcher used to minimise the app.  Now it doesn't. WTF did I not set correctly? [my brain, perhaps?]
  <SuperEngineer> [& morning, peeps]  ;-)
  <moreati> SuperEngineer: https://askubuntu.com/questions/36433/can-i-use-the-unity-launcher-icon-to-minimize-applications-windows/436542#436542
   * SuperEngineer checks it out - ta moreati 
  <moreati> for those on 15.10 http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2015/10/ubuntu-1510-minimize-click/
  <SuperEngineer> ooooooo.... works again [me a happy bunny now]
  <SuperEngineer> Thanks, moreati - I obviously loost my googlefoo at the same time as the setting ;-)
  <czajkowski> aloha
   * SuperEngineer minimises windows for the fun of it... because now I can again
  <MooDoo> ooo netsplit
   * penguin42 throws MooDoo a very long network cable
  <MooDoo> pendulum: I'm ok :)
   * penguin42 swings too and fro
  <SuperEngineer> penguin42 is now known as pendulum
  <diddledan> hello
  <penguin42> hi
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-23
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <SuperMatt> morning
  <SuperMatt> lovely weather we're having
  <brobostigon> lovely weather, lolz,
  <SuperMatt> Looks like the fog is slowly getting thinner
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <SuperMatt> g'day
  <CoderEurope> G'Morning Brexiteers.
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Handwriting Day! ð ð
  <davmor2> JamesTait: I think this song mentions writing more than most https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4 and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jzDnsjYv9A
  <diddledan> I do love that disturbed cover of the sound of silence
  <diddledan> this thread makes me angry https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2017-January/017274.html
  <diddledan> specifically the repeated pattern of the author across many threads
  <diddledan> the person seems to be very confrontational. and they like ranting long diatribes in some emails expecting people to read it all
  <SuperMatt> I kinda get what his problem is though. There's a bug with lvm, and he just wants a fix backported to 16.04
  <diddledan> I wouldn't say it's a bug to trample your data when you copy an active-in-use filesystem
  <davmor2> here's the big question why would you duplicate UUID's the Unique part right there at the front kinda says there shouldn't be duplicates of it :D
  <diddledan> exactly. dding an lvm is a bad idea
  <diddledan> lvm provides facilities for copying data
  <diddledan> having two disks/partitions with the same UUID surely falls into undefined behaviour territory
  <diddledan> so complaining that behaviour is weird when the behaviour is undefined seems a bit.. silly?
  <davmor2> I hit this serveral times before I figured it out with my backup schema.  I would install ubuntu server everything worked, I would dump on my backup and everything broke...turns out /etc points to uuids quite a lot in Ubuntu and the uuid had changes killing the system :D
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-24
  <KnightW0rk> morning
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <SuperMatt> Good morning
  <SuperMatt> I need more sleep and water
  <andylockran> Morning guys
   * davmor2 thinks SuperMatt is actually AquaMan 
  <diddledan> allo
  <SuperMatt> I'm not Aquaman!
  <SuperMatt> I'm totally better
  <davmor2> nah not if your only sleeping in the water you're not :P
  <SuperMatt> I want sleep *and* water, not sleep *in* water
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Compliment Day! ð
  <diddledan> JamesTait: you're great at these day of the day
  <JamesTait> Why thank you! I love what you've done with your hair today.
  <diddledan> bedhair ftw
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <davmor2> JamesTait: I think this covers it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WybiA263bw
  <diddledan> 200 squiddlers for an acer 4K 24inch monika: http://www.ebuyer.com/700238-acer-cb240hyk-24-ips-ultra-hd-4k-monitor-um-qb0ee-001
  <davmor2> diddledan: I was just reading that self same email :)
  <davmor2> diddledan: Â£64 saving isn't to be sniffed at either :)
  <diddledan> ooh, late nite linux episode 2 is podcasted
  <foobarry> how can i tell if a windows PC has a certain update installed?
  <foobarry> running wuapp and searcing installed updates doesn't show it
  <diddledan> no idea
  <knightw0rk> hey everyone
  <davmor2> foobarry: you know this is Ubuntu-UK right not windows uk ;)
  <foobarry> not sure where else to ask...
  <foobarry> i haven't used windows properly for 15+ yrs
  <knightw0rk> what was your question foobarry
  <popey> foobarry: windows 10? it has a history list in windows update which lists all the updates
  <foobarry> 8.1
  <popey> oh, no idea
  <foobarry> the history list seems to list only up to 2015
  <popey> never used 8
  <foobarry> its possible that 1) nobody is updating 2) they do something funky with the images since they are VMs
  <diddledan> if it's a new VM then the image it was created-from was probably minted in 2015
  <foobarry> thats a worry if true
  <diddledan> it's a hassle updating base images for Windows mass-distribution
  <foobarry> not if its your full time job
  <diddledan> IIRC you need to install it on a system and bypass the OOBE system on first-boot-after-install, do all the updates required, do any other stuff required to customise the base image, run sysprep and finally create an image.
  <diddledan> it's several hours work
  <foobarry> yes, enough time since 2015 surely
   * diddledan twiddles his thumbs waiting for delivery man
  <davmor2> diddledan: I kidnapped him knowing you were waiting on something
  <diddledan> grr
  <davmor2> muhahahahahahahaha
  <diddledan> the expanse season 2 starts next week! \o/
  <davmor2> I didn't see season 1 ;)
  <diddledan> it's awesome
  <diddledan> I love the realism
  <diddledan> parcel arrived
  <diddledan> it's plugged-in and running. I have a working ups again
  <daftykins> \o/
  <daftykins> i'm still without a shower ;) timber treatment fella is coming over tomorrow to assess the damage
  <davmor2> I'm gonna laugh my ass off if he walks in, deep inhales and says yes that is damaged :D
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> well it's a bit more than that, 1) active furniture beetle (woodworm) 2) rotten AND woodworm eaten joist 3) listed property
  <diddledan> listed in the "condemned" column :-p
  <daftykins> well, the room floor will be hopefully \o/
  <daftykins> i've been doing jobs for my wealthy clients boat guy at the mo, check out the formers boat up in a warehouse :D https://www.dropbox.com/s/cvcchzlswwhdtja/VID_20170124_142418.mp4?dl=0
  <daftykins> https://youtu.be/DHLP0eyXsSo?t=311 now THAT is a shower for a small room like mine :>
  <zmoylan-pi> but then you'd have a slippery part of the floor in one part of the room a few times per day depending on the number of times it is in use... but very interesting design
  <davmor2> daftykins: I have a problem with that video it showed no shower :)
  <zmoylan-pi> and the panels would have to be lower than the shower head and controls as they would protrude from the wall... but still possible
  <diddledan> https://twitter.com/emgent/status/823945790561382400
  <diddledan> oh dear symantec issuing fake certs again: https://www.scmagazine.com/once-again-symantec-spotted-improperly-issuing-certs/article/633266/
  <daftykins> davmor2: ok it was more an enclosure :P
  <davmor2> daftykins: the video after shows you it as a shower
  <daftykins> i don't allow autoplay so i'm not sure which one would've followed
  <davmor2> daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLmOrg79a5o
  <daftykins> haha yeah it actually isn't hugely practical when you have to keep moving the shower head :>
  <zmoylan-pi> should be possible to make a shower head that moves out of the way as doors are closed over
  <daftykins> aww yeah another new client \o/
  <daftykins> help pay for the bathroom drama this ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> you'll be able to celebrate by brewing up some bathtub gin... :-P
  <daftykins> woohoo!
  <popey> ali1234: seen http://www.savethedate.foo/ ? seems like a puzzle up your street
  <ali1234> doesnt work in firefox :/
  <daftykins> this just looks like a copy of zahada, which a mate of mine made
  <daftykins> http://www.mcgov.co.uk/zahadamore.php
  <ali1234> number 4 is an actual puzzle tho
  <ali1234> hmm i dont think they expect it to e solved in under two hours
  <diddledan> have you done it?
  <ali1234> hacker news did it
  <diddledan> aha
  <ali1234> its just an advert for google i/o in may
  <diddledan> I figured it was about googley io
  <ali1234> i will have totally forgotten about it by then
  <zmoylan-pi> i'm sure they'll pop an advert or two in your face before then
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-25
  <diddledan> this is reassuring: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/824069134363332608
  <diddledan> emergency! kittens! https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/824074862981500929
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, morning
  <SuperMatt> good morning
  <SuperMatt> WFH day today :D
  <davmor2> SuperMatt: I almost always do :)  I sometimes work from the caravan too :)
  <davmor2> SuperMatt: the commute is aweful right
  <zmoylan-pi> heard of someone who worked during their commute and that time was taken into consideration so an hour each way commute meant only 6 hours in the office per day...
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy A Room Of Oneâs Own Day! ð
  <zmoylan-pi> i'd cheer but i'd wake up a bunch of people... :-P
  <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Q3mHyzn78
  <SuperMatt> oooh, I'd love a room of my own, but the cat and wife have differenr ideas
  <zmoylan-pi> you just need to set the cat against the wife and while they're fighting go off and find a quiet corner... :-P
  <SuperMatt> They love each other too much
  <zmoylan-pi> never said it would be easy...
  <SuperMatt> It couldn't happen, I'ms sure of it
  <foobarry> can anyone see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1180652 please?
  <lubotu3> Error: Error getting bugzilla.redhat.com bug #1180652: NotPermitted
  <zmoylan-pi> what i'm hearing is that they're so tight that they must be plotting against you... :-P
  <zmoylan-pi> 'you are not authorised to access bug #'...
  <foobarry> my login doesn't seem to work with the bugzilla
  <awilkins> Is there an Ubuntu / Canonical team that has overall responsibility for VPN?
  <SuperMatt> I'm sure they just pull from upstream projects
  <diplo> Hey guys, if you were to change /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max
  <diplo> would you use sysctl or echo value > /proc/sys....
  <diplo> ?
  <diplo> Just a temp test
  <SuperMatt> I think both would work
  <SuperMatt> I would do sysctl myself, because chances are I want it to persist
  <SuperMatt> and I'd write it to /ect/sysctl.conf (or whatever)
  <diplo> yeah it's a issue with our software so it's a quick test on a customer site
  <diplo> Doesn't happen on any other site
  <diplo> Will try sysctl :) thanks
  <foobarry> need a new dishwasher, any recs? needs to be slim
  <zmoylan-pi> ...and run linux? :-P
  <diplo> OK to add to the question above, pid_max - anyone know how the max is calculated? I've got different values on different systems
  <diplo> Combination of proc / memory ?
  <zmoylan-pi> if i was going for an appliance like a dishwasher i'd be looking at which magazine survey ratings instead of single ancedotes.  just my 2c
  <diplo> +1 - I sold my dishwasher, prefer handwashing
  <diplo> Apart from dinner parties :P
  <zmoylan-pi> that's when you serve fish and let the cat lick everything clean before boiling it all... :-P
  <foobarry> weirdo
  <diplo> hah, my wife always asked why I hand washed, I think our dishwasher was rubbish tbh, but it got me away from her as well :)
  <foobarry> i do think dishwashing is a sign of a marriage under strain
  <diplo> Well we are divorced :P
  <foobarry> QED
  <diplo> But I actually don't mind doing it, my girlfriend uses a dishwasher and her plates / glasses never seem as clean as if you hand wash them
  <SuperMatt> If they aren't coming out as clean in the dishwasher, then you're over loading it, or not topping up the salt
  <diplo> I did suggest that to her :) but I decided not to pursue it
  <zmoylan-pi> then the dishwasher should be able to point that out
  <diplo> Much preffered solution zmoylan-pi
  <diplo> :P
  <diplo> Anyone got a redhat access portal login ?
  <diplo> https://access.redhat.com/solutions/874023
  <SuperMatt> The wife and I live alone, but we have made sure we have enough plates, etc, to last us a few days until the dish washer is full, and then we put it on
  <SuperMatt> The mother in law does about 3 loads a day. Don't know how
  <diplo> Oh my! I couldn't wait that long
  <zmoylan-pi> solution: paper plates :-)
  <diplo> I wash as I cook/complete then wash up as the kids finish
  <SuperMatt> I will rinse as I go along, and put things in to the dishwasher then
  <SuperMatt> but my wife is a "soaker"
  <SuperMatt> it always makes me shudder
  <SuperMatt> I don't mind something being left to soak, but if it has been left for more than half an hour, it's not going to make any more difference
  <diplo> I'm a soaker for 5 mins whilst I do something else, like my water red hot
  <diplo> God are we getting old!!!! :(
  <SuperMatt> I know, I have a wife and a mortage, both things I didn't have 2 years ago when I left my twenties behind
  <diplo> Well I am old then if you're in your twenties ( obviously not as old as popey though! )
  <diplo> :P
  <foobarry> SuperMatt: do rackspace offer managed windows servers?
  <foobarry> where they patch and look after SQL server dbs etc?
  <SuperMatt> I don't work for RS any more, but yes, they do
  <foobarry> i know :P
  <foobarry> any idea on pricing, or wasn't your area...
  <SuperMatt> wasn't my area at all
  <SuperMatt> but more expensive than linux
  <foobarry> sure
  <SuperMatt> I think you can get managed DBs from Rackspace too
  <foobarry> thanks
  <foobarry> that'll do
  <SuperMatt> and some may say that's preferable
  <diplo> Who do you guys use for dynamic dns ?
  <daftykins> no-ip here
  <daftykins> diplo: although the last domain i bought from namecheap.com allows dynamic update from a client utility, so that could work too
  <diplo> I've been thinking buying a domain specifically for it yeah, I guess if I can get dhclient to work with it that would do
  <diplo> Wonder if any of the other registrars allow that
  <diplo> no-ip wants you to renew monthly doesn't it.. I think that's who I am with now, keep forgetting to do it, quite happy to pay a small sum or may just script something myself
  <foobarry> dyndns is $40 pa
  <foobarry> sounds a lot
  <daftykins> they don't do a free account anymore, but no-ip do.
  <daftykins> diplo: just pay no-ip the $25 USD for a year then :>
  <diplo> Yeah, thought about it.. but for what I get/want I was thinking more like a tenner :D - Just reading up whether I can update 123-reg or gandi with an api :P
  <diplo> Oooh I can with digital ocean I think! ooh!
  <popey> diplo: THANKS! :D
  <daftykins> o0
  <diplo> heheh
  <diplo> Someone has beaten me to it daftykins - Shell script ahoy
  <daftykins> every time i've tried to use a dynamic DNS updater on an ubuntu server with repo packages, they've all been utterly useless
  <diplo> yes, which is why I wanted something else daftykins
  <diplo> I had an issue with afraid.org because of dhclient on the version of ubuntu I was on and my router didn't support it
  <daftykins> yeah i just wanted to share just how rubbish they are and see whether anyone else had encountered the same
  <daftykins> seems to be my experience of universe packages :P
  <daftykins> "oh neat i found an appropriate program... oh it doesn't work"
  <SuperMatt> I've just moved my DNS to digital ocean. I needed 20 zones, but they limit you to 10. Despite being a saturday morning, I sitll got an upgrade
  <SuperMatt> digital ocean have their heads screwed on
  <SuperMatt> The limit is only so they don't get people creating accounts and registering a million spammy domains
  <diplo> Ah right I see, I may move all my stuff over to, see how  Iget on with this dns :P
  <diplo> And success! The one I found was old api but fix0red it now \o/
  <diddledan> Bryan Lunduke "The Lunduke Hour: You put Linux on THAT?!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlBS66kd3JE (some swearing)
  <SuperMatt> that reminds me, is it the time of year for Lunduke's Why Linux Sucks talk?
  <daftykins> diddledan: i am confused, this hour seems to be 30 mins long
  <diddledan> yeah I spotted that, too
  <diddledan> Blessed are they who just can't even, for they shall be able to. https://twitter.com/JesusOfNaz316/status/824247461325639680
  <diplo> Now with SSL certificate - woohoo!
  <diddledan> \o/
  <diplo> Onlu took me an hour and 3/4 :D
  <m0nkey_> 9:50 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery .. *squeals*
  <diplo> Learning ssl was hard :P
  <diddledan> I still haven't learnt SSL - it's all binary gibberish that I can't decipher
  <m0nkey_> diddledan, that's because you don't have the key
  <diddledan> it's almost like they're talking in code
  <diddledan> m0nkey_: we'll lose you to the machine later today then? :-p
  <m0nkey_> yes, I am entering the matrix
  <m0nkey_> as soon as it's arrived and setup
  <diplo> Created a LE cert on my VPS and then copied it down, next thing to do is to automate the renewal process and then get it to sftp it to the correct directory and check perms on update
  <diplo> https://github.com/andy-partington/shell_scripts/ if anyone wants to use the DO dynamic thing
  <diplo> Going to tidy the code up eventually
  <diddledan> how you respond to twitter - two images, one when you first join, the other after a few years: https://twitter.com/furrygirl/status/824129821273976832
  <diddledan> daftykins: notice I've been trying to explain my links better the past couple of days? :-)
  <daftykins> diddledan: i'm so proud, it brings a tear to my eye!
  <m0nkey_> FEDEX!!
  <diddledan> \o/
  <daftykins> i'll have you know i never fed the ex
  <m0nkey_> MY VIVE!
  <diddledan> daftykins: is that why they're now "ex"?
  <daftykins> oh tux you went and did it eh :P
  <daftykins> you silly billy!
  <daftykins> diddledan: lies, there's no correlation!
  <m0nkey_> Would it be wrong of me to admit I'm squealing like a little bitch right now? :)
  <diddledan> no, the squealing is wrong, though
  <daftykins> glad you're enjoying it, but we'll see how long it lasts
  <m0nkey_> daftykins, not even plugged it in yet. it's got to get to room temperature
  <diddledan> how long until you knock yourself out by headbutting your desk?
  <daftykins> hehe
  <daftykins> i think he has his own padded room!
  <m0nkey_> OH MY DEAR GOD. THAT IS AWESOME
  <KrimZon> #
  <KrimZon> oops
  <diddledan> m0nkey_: did you lean on the pool-table yet?
  <daftykins> :D
  <diddledan> ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLhlHvIajpk
  <daftykins> might as well get a pint in and lean on the bar </Only Fools>
  <m0nkey_> diddledan, not yet
  <m0nkey_> been doing some zombie training and playing in the lab
  <danielthebague> Hi folks, whats the news or status for the BQ e4.5 ubuntu phone?
  <daftykins> danielthebague: wrong channel
  <daftykins> !phone
  <lubotu3> Information about the Ubuntu Touch platform for Phone and Tablet is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch . Support and discussion in #ubuntu-touch
  <danielthebague> yeah already switched to touch channel
  <daftykins> good stuff
  <danielthebague> thanks
  <danielthebague> Just out of interest is anyone in the not so near future  going to purchase a ubuntu phone handset, hopefully this isn't a sore topic
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-26
  <CoderEurope> Happy Australia day !
  <SuperMatt> good to see, now that chrome and firefox are starting to report insecure sites, that more sites are going https by default
  <diddledan> morning
  <diddledan> SuperMatt: yeah, they're making people actually start to think about security
  <diddledan> both end-users and site-owners alike
  <kn1ghtw0rk> I have a first line support guy in my team that is seriously making me doubt my sanity
  <diddledan> kn1ghtw0rk: surely your lack of sanity should be the first warning sign, no? ;-)
  <kn1ghtw0rk> I have never had an abundance of sanity
  <kn1ghtw0rk> you all know that
  <diddledan> I'm glad I'm not alone :-)
  <diddledan> life would be boring if we were sane
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <diddledan> davmor2: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/514480991952699392/RkBBZpB2.jpeg
  <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Australia Day! ð  ð  ð¨
  <davmor2> diddledan: I think this is slightly more disturbing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgI7kIkwca8
  <diddledan> HAL FTW
  <davmor2> JamesTait: just for something that isn't men down under https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GtyMeEcPPE
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <davmor2> JamesTait: no coffee yet men at work, land down under kinda got merged into one that and I copy pasted :P
  <foobarry> bought a dishwasher at 8pm last night, was installed before 9am today :|
  <diddledan> foobarry: that's a fast turnaround
  <foobarry> yeah
  <zmoylan-pi> so how did you decide in the end which brand to go for?  the one with no blue leds? :-P
  <foobarry> bosch. was interested in samsung but they didn't seem to do slimline ones
  <foobarry> need to fit in 45cm gap
  <zmoylan-pi> didn't they just recall a home appliance as it was impersonating their latest mobile offering?
  <zmoylan-pi> samsung that is
  <foobarry> used topcashback and an voucher code to make things a bit cheaper
  <foobarry> well i would like an oven to make things hot
  <foobarry> and a hob to flame things
  <zmoylan-pi> a samsung fridge perhaps... :-P
  <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Yeah. In the USA their combi washer/dryer (I think) had a conflragation "feature"
  <daftykins> aww yeah new specs all the way from Hong Kong - https://www.dropbox.com/s/vu061glld8bampw/IMG_20170126_122104.jpg?dl=0
  <daftykins> bottom pair, missing a lens... are the ones i trashed in my spill 2 and a bit years ago
  <daftykins> it reached 0 deg C this morning D:
  <zmoylan-pi> yeah 2 weather warnings in south of ireland... mostly just rain but does feel nippy out
  <zmoylan-pi> and renewables ie wind is now providing 60+% or irish leccy at the mo... http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/
  <daftykins> oh dear that gives me a 503
  <daftykins> does that mean someone broke wind?
  <zmoylan-pi> they seem to be running that server on a rasp pi and it often can't keep up with number of connections
  <daftykins> yay it's alive now
  <daftykins> that's pretty cool if accurate
  <daftykins> strangely, they're planning on running a large power cable from the northern tip of France just to the east of me here - up through the island of Alderney - to England O_O
  <zmoylan-pi> the person i got the link from is an engineer who fixes the wind turbines amongst other things so i'm inclined to believe it's at least rougly accurate
  <daftykins> very neat
  <daftykins> i'd bet there are some fun systems to play with in power generation
  <daftykins> oh my specs were shipped by a courier named sky net, i think it's the rise of the machines
  <zmoylan-pi> lots of big toys... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4hO76H6AU
  <daftykins> glaxo smithkline o0
  <zmoylan-pi> all the big pharmacuticals are huge in ireland for manufacturing and research
  <daftykins> hmm, tax angles i take it?
  <zmoylan-pi> no, i think a lot of them predate the tax advantages
  <daftykins> hehe
  <zmoylan-pi> i remember listening to a podcast a few months back from the early 70s about medical research in ireland bringing in international companies
  <zmoylan-pi> *back of a radio documentary from
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> oh i got the timber treatment guys report today to forward to my insurance adjuster, so there's a bit more progress... although they want to trash the rest of my bathroom now, which will mean moving out
  <zmoylan-pi> ... or crossing your legs for a few weeks...
  <daftykins> yip :>
  <daftykins> i have to head up a clients in a moment for a shower :/
  <zmoylan-pi> get a camping shower gizmo and shower in the garden... :-P
  <zmoylan-pi> hypothermia... but clean... :-P
  <daftykins> i don't have a garden :> just a little tiny deck with not so great drainage
  <daftykins> think the tap that's there is rusted solid too...
  <zmoylan-pi> it's just a bag of water so you can give yourself a navy shower.  wet, soap, rinse, soap, rinse...
  <foobarry> do we have any coders in here looking for an exciting job?
  <zmoylan-pi> i think the coders are down the pub drowning their sorrows over having to use ms software
  <daftykins> nah they're busy building the latest applications from source because their distro's default repos have all broken software packaged :)
  <dogmatic69> Hi all, im looking for a way to send the keystroke F1 to a terminal session, but it seems like the window manager is catching it
  <dogmatic69> any ideas how I can force it to send?
  <zmoylan-pi> try an onscreen keyboard?
  <foobarry> are there any good subreddits for programmingjobs?
  <dogmatic69> one sec
  <foobarry> no MS software in this job
  <foobarry> anywhere
  <foobarry> r/jobbit
  <dogmatic69> zmoylan-pi: the onscreeen dont even have function keys
  <dogmatic69> doubt it would work anyway, I think it is the window manager catching for help screens. most apps have F1 for help
  <diddledan> dogmatic69: first result on google: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/53581/sending-function-keys-f1-f12-over-ssh
  <dogmatic69> "Another way to see the escape sequence for a function key is to press Ctrl+V in a terminal application that doesn't rebind the Ctrl+V key (such as the shell). Ctrl+V inserts the next character (which will be the escape character) literally, and you'll be able to see the rest of the sequence, which consists of ordinary characters."
  <dogmatic69> try that, and hit F1.. nothing happens
  <dogmatic69> ctrl+v -> F1 ... nothing
  <diddledan> that isn't what it tells you
  <diddledan> F1 == ^[OP
  <foobarry> google drive is dreadful
  <foobarry> impossible to navigate folders with any persistence
  <zmoylan-pi> i use dropbox... i wouldn't use it for anything secure mind
  <foobarry> this is a work collaboration between different institutions
  <foobarry> no choice
  <foobarry> cannot see contents of folders easily at all
  <daftykins> i've seen Google Drive fall over and be unreliable, too
  <daftykins> no idea what you mean is happening though
  <SuperMatt> I'm all about the OwnCloud
  <foobarry> when documents are in nested folders, navigating those foldesr is really cludgy
  <foobarry> and opening docs and navigating them is too
  <foobarry> it was ages before i realised there were folders full of files
  <foobarry> maybe i need that insync client
  <daftykins> on a clients Windows 7 system, i tried moving his Documents folder into the Google Drive root so that it'd keep them backed up - problem? it breaks indexing so search no longer works within it - and the client regularly crashed a couple of years back, generally pretty terrible
  <zmoylan-pi> ooooh, shiny.... http://kde.slimbook.es/
  <daftykins> https://youtu.be/4hHIv9RmDvY kittys + laser pointer now in 4K!
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-27
  <m0nkey_> Gah, it's been almost two and a half hours since I went to the dentist, and my mouth still hasn't unfrozen.
  <m0nkey_> Odd sensation though, drinking cold water feels warm on one side of my tongue
  <knightwise> morning
  <diplo> Morning all
  <foobarry> hello from a train
  <foobarry> never irc'd on a train before :|
  <diplo> I used to do that on my way up to Nottingham on the train
  <diplo> Bored our of my brain :P
  <foobarry> heh i'm on my way to leicester
  <diplo> Poor you :P
  <foobarry> i need MOSH
  <SuperMatt> You want to mosh?
   * SuperMatt starts playing some Iron Maiden
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <SuperMatt> morning
  <brobostigon> morning
  <TwistedLucidity> o/
  <diplo> Hey guys, we support customers remotely using teamviewer, someone has mentioned Zoho assist, any of you guys used it before ?
  <SuperMatt> What do you support your customers in doing exactly?
  <SuperMatt> personally, I don't trust any of the remote software
  <diplo> Neither do I, desktop support occasionally, setting up sessions to our software
  <diplo> We're using a very old version of teamviewer licensed and it's either upgrade time or try another product, just thought i'd see what others use
  <davmor2> Morning all
  <TwistedLucidity> diplo: Not a lot of help, but lots of alts here - http://alternativeto.net/software/teamviewer/?license=free (Zoho Assist is in there too)
  <TwistedLucidity> We make do with Go-To Meeting etc (which doens't work on GNU/Linux)
  <TwistedLucidity> Oh, I've restricted the license to Free/Open; easy enough to add proprietary back in.
  <davmor2> Rocketchat does voice and video calls I believe
  <foobarry> anyone use google keep?
  <foobarry> opinions vs evernote?
  <davmor2> foobarry: I do but only cause I use voice to make notes and that is what it defaults to
  <davmor2> foobarry: personally I think it is more basic than evernote but it depends how many of evernotes features you used
  <foobarry> sharing notes, reading on my phone, also share to evernote from a web page
  <foobarry> the evernote web clipper is really good
  <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Does it allow for remote control?
  <TwistedLucidity> "it" being RocketChat.
  <davmor2> foobarry: keep I think does all of that only obviously using all google services.
  <TwistedLucidity> And, more importantly, can it punch people who don't read the step-by-step instructions that are in front of their face?
  <diplo> We do use on some linux desktops TwistedLucidity - hadn't taken that into account actually thanks
  <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: no, no you can't, but you can run sudo snap install slappy ;)
  <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: LOL
  <diplo> I use Keep for my shopping lists, make it at work and tick off in the shop
  <TwistedLucidity> diplo: If it's Linux-linux, just "ssh -Y" the wee sod. Or proxy VNC over SSH.
  <diplo> Yeah, the people who are controlling it etc are not the cleverest
   * TwistedLucidity sorts his parent's router by proxying the web interface over a reverse SSH tunnel. Feels l33t.
  <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: not sure about features you would need to check on theirs site, as far as I am aware it is somewhere between slack and hangouts
  <foobarry> Like the Chrome Save to Google extension, the Keep clipping function doesnât clip the entire page, so itâs still not a full replacement for apps like Pocket and Evernote. Still, these are nice updates if you want to use Keep not just for taking notes but also quickly saving things from the web
  <TwistedLucidity> Used slack for ~5 mins, never used hangouts; but I shall check. Thanks!
  <TwistedLucidity> For Pocket, consider Wallabag.
  <foobarry> pocket doesn't work for me
  <foobarry> first few web pages i tried just didn't work
  <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: On the RocketChat page now. No idea what it does, too busy playing with the floating dots on their banner :-S
  <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: sucka
  <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: just read the features and click on the demo
  <TwistedLucidity> Ooo, it's in a snap. Right, really need to figure out how to get a snap to use an external MariaDB instance on not bundle it's own. But will deffo test it out.
  <SuperMatt> diplo: I use Keep in the same way
  <TwistedLucidity> LOL. Screensharing is undocumented.
  <TwistedLucidity> "Why can't I remote monitor the server?"
  <TwistedLucidity> "Is the service running?"
  <TwistedLucidity> "No. Do I need to start it?"
  <TwistedLucidity> ARGH!
  <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Hello World isn't just a developer demo, it's an introduction the pain the world will inflict on you when you hit the release button :)
  <foobarry> aww google keep clipper doesn't store the text from a web page
  <foobarry> just a link
  <foobarry> evernote is so much better
  <davmor2> foobarry: I did say it was more basic
  <davmor2> foobarry: my usage is mostly reminders and shopping lists so it is perfect for me
  <foobarry> its a shame or i'd switch over
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
  <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hi
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
  <diplo> Anyone updated cPanel DNS via a script ?
  <diplo> Like my example for Digital OCean the other day, most of the stuff I'm finding is a few years old, but thought I'd ask around before writing my own
  <SuperMatt> my opinion of cpanel is "ARGH! KILL IT WITH FIRE!"
  <davmor2> popey: you are evil
  <diplo> SuperMatt: Agreed.
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> ]
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> -6777yyyyy
  <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-28
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <SuperMatt> good morning on this chilly saturday
  <brobostigon> morning
  <SuperMatt> Today is a day for writing a wordpress theme
   * penguin42 updates his Mum's machine from 12.04
  <brobostigon> wowzer
  <daftykins> O_O
  <penguin42> well it was working and still LTS so hey that's the point
  <DJones> penguin42: Must admit, I've only recently upgraded my server from 12.04...as you say it still worked, was still LTS and supported...etc
  <DJones> Yay for 5 year LTS releases
  <penguin42> what has stopped working on that machine is h.264 playback through ff, firefox complains of an outdated libav; now I can't honestly remember whether the libav on there is a standard ubuntu one or not, but either way it means her machine can't watch our cctv, so I need to fix that so I may as well update first
  <daftykins> oh yeah i suppose it was going to be good until this April
  <daftykins> agreed on the sticking to what works as long as it's LTS, however i will absolutely slay anyone running EOL due to laziness (and do) :)
  <penguin42> nod
  <penguin42> the odd thing I had to remember was the trick on it to make the 1366x768 TV/monitor work on it
  <daftykins> oh dear, another modeline / hardcoded EDID to combat useless VGA?
  <penguin42> nod, it's kind of annoying it isn't in distros
  <penguin42> I eventually found I'd added an xrandr command in her .profile
  <daftykins> ah har
  <daftykins> i often go in and find folks have VGA where both their PC and monitor has a digital interconnect of whichever variety free, so i just order in a cable from amazon for say Â£5 and throw it on the bill
  <daftykins> one client had been getting by with the wrong resolution due to VGA hassles, even on a Windows machine for so long that he thought his eyes were going bad
  <daftykins> turned out it was just a super thin badly shielded cable but throwing HDMI in just made him say 'wow' :>
  <penguin42> daftykins: Oh that's not the problem; the problem is that 1366 is a weird resolution; it's not divisible by 8
  <daftykins> i know you've mentioned that before but _all_ 1366x768 monitors i've had exposure to work fine on Windows machines
  <daftykins> sure some rare ones say they're outputting at 1360 wide instead, but most are properly stating 1366
  <penguin42> in this case I'm giving it a 1360x768 modeline
  <daftykins> this is why X.org can't die any sooner though, hand edits in 2017? just no
  <penguin42> it's not X's fault, or at least nothing that's not fixable by shipping a few mode lines
  <penguin42> replacing X because of this type of thing is just entirely the wrong thing to do
  <daftykins> it is in the majority of situations, because somehow EDID reading fails on Linux where it doesn't on Windows... and i'm only saying replace because that's the way things are going, it's not going to get fixed
  <penguin42> yeh but replacing it doesn't solve the problem it just invents a lot of new ones
  <daftykins> why doesn't it if the new display server has already resolved that issue atop a whole new approach?
  <penguin42> because the new display servers will all have lots of fun new imaginative screwups because they've not remembered all the things X has fixe din the last 30 years
  <daftykins> ok, but we're talking about this specific problem right now which it hasn't fixed, not other ones
  <daftykins> why are we even seeing such basic display woes in an OS that FOSS advocates push so much?
  <daftykins> fair enough if the idea is just to wait for VGA to disappear, that's fine by me
  <penguin42> because people just shout and moan and say it's peoples crap monitors rather than fixing it
  <penguin42> daftykins: I dont the problem is either X or VGA
  <daftykins> well it does need to be caveated with the fact that just because we've both seen the same result (wrong resolution) doesn't mean we've seen the same scenario
  <penguin42> right, but as far as I understand the problem is 1) 1366 isn't divisable by 8, and 2) Many TVs have broken EDID set up
  <penguin42> daftykins: but neither of those is fundamental of either VGA or X
  <daftykins> sorry but if it was 1, then it would've been fixed ages ago in software and we'd not have seen it again
  <penguin42> (1) certainly is part of the problem
  <daftykins> from my perspective i see an OS that can work and one that can't, simple as that
  <penguin42> right, but neither of them is a fundamental problem with X or VGA; it's just that people can't be bothered fixing it
  <penguin42> they'd rather spend their time inventing alternatives to X instead
  <daftykins> i think this has devolved to semantics now
  <penguin42> there's things that need fixing in a replacement for X, but this isn't one that's fundamental about X or VGA
  <daftykins> avoiding VGA is simply easier than dealing with users with edge cases such as this
  <penguin42> my assumption is just we'll see similar problems on HDMI etc - the actual monitor ID on VGA is hardly robust, but it's pretty simple
  <penguin42> you do get problems on EDID but mostly with dodgy cables/projectors etc and for that I agree VGA is to blame
  <daftykins> mmm, probably more issues leaning toward DRM with the digital interconnects
  <penguin42> bad firmware in TVs etc can screwup the IDs on hdmi as well
  <daftykins> yeah, that one can be pinned on the race to the bottom with LCDs and folks choosing the quirky brands that have messed up somewhere
  <daftykins> although i don't think i've seen any HDMI woes that weren't cheap cables, certainly for actual computers HDMI isn't really the wisest choice
  <penguin42> yeh well that's the big problem with the 1366 displays
  <daftykins> not entirely since often Windows will work with them :>
  <DJones> Grrr, not sure whether to blame schools for failing to teach, or teens/adolecents for not learning, sat here listening to music, mates 15 year old hears a song and asks "what has Birmingham got to do with Alabama" (Listening to sweet home alabama..... Duh...
  <daftykins> are you thinking the geographic angle to looking up that Birmingham is in Alabama? :>
  <DJones> Yup
  <daftykins> mm probably was just a google away to find out
  <DJones> As far as I can see thats the relevant reference
  <DJones> Maybe I'm just getting nostalgic listening to 70/80's rock music and thinking this is where I come from
  <daftykins> :>
  <DJones> Yeah, I am 50 years old, I grew up with 60/70/80's music, some 90's before it went  all screamy and assault to the senses
  <daftykins> indeed, or even the wub-wubs of the last 10 years too (at least i'm told it passes for music)
  <DJones> I've ignored most music in the last 20 years, hasn't been the same since Freddie passed away
  <DJones> Outside of classical music, there are no strong voices
  <DJones> (Freddie Mercury)
   * DJones regrets cutting his waist length ponytail off
  <daftykins> i've found that whereas i never used to walk or cycle anywhere without something on earphones, i'm much preferring to just have peace these last few years
  <daftykins> so the music discovery has died off mostly too and just been shelved
  <DJones> I can agree with that (But I'm married) I like silence, much prefer it to any sound except under certain circumstances, ie, I've got to be on the excercise bike/weights machine etc)
  <daftykins> ah yeah
  <daftykins> i'm loathe to persist with any exercise right now since i'm without a shower (ripped out due to a water leak discovery and insurance claim in the works)
  <daftykins> i'm even using the bus of late instead of cycling for the same reason
  <DJones> Yeah, I saw your rotten wood pictures
  <daftykins> ah right - just waiting on the adjuster's response right now
  <daftykins> then to get quotes, oy :P
  <DJones> Hopefully it'll work out right for you
  <daftykins> they'll cover some of it, but it's going to be a costly couple of months for sure since redoing the room will count as 'betterment'
  <DJones> I just picked up a Â£400 excercise bike for Â£30 on a 2nd hand resale website
  <daftykins> :O that's quite the drop
  <DJones> Yup
  <daftykins> i keep watching the local one's electronics pages but people are too daft to even put up the model of product they list
  <daftykins> *products
  <DJones> I think there was something dodgy about buying it, bloke said he was selling it becuase of tumours in his legs, partner said she was selling it because she'd started going out on a real bike.
  <DJones> But, whatever...
  <daftykins> heh
  <DJones> I've started looking at local bring & buy/sell websites which is where Ifoound the exercise bike
  <DJones> 99% seems to be spam, but occasionally, you find a bargain
  <zmoylan-pi> but 99% of exercise bikes end up as clothes hangers... :-)
  <daftykins> :D
   * zmoylan-pi prepares to go to monthly dublin flea market tomorrow to see what bargains i can find... :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> i think it's adverts on electronics were they list very specific information that is most dodgy.  suggests someone who is shifting a lot of gear...
  <daftykins> hah
  <daftykins> well i listed a printer once with a link to the full spec page, had a phone call from a guy asking me if it was wifi and "can you not just read the box?"
  <daftykins> 1) why do you think i'm in front of it? 2) why didn't you read the link and decide if it was right for you?
  <daftykins> i was asking Â£20 for an inkjet XD
  <zmoylan-pi> ....and $50 for a cartridge...? :-)
  <daftykins> as is tradition! hence my never opening it ;D
   * penguin42 should have run computer-janitor on my mums machine first; it seems to have 120+ kernels installed which is making anything that updates the initrd's ***slow***
  <daftykins> oof
  <daftykins> must be using a few inodes too :>
  <zmoylan-pi> you'll never know when your mother will want to try and use a previous kernel to hack the gibson... :-P
  <penguin42> daftykins: Oh that's irrelevant compared to her mozilla cache I think
  <penguin42> hmm mind you I guess it multiplies by modules so you do get a lot
  <daftykins> were/are you doing this all remotely?
  <penguin42> no
  <zmoylan-pi> this is why i visit relatives so rarely... 'can you take a 5 minute look at our computer...'
  <zmoylan-pi> how long does it take to boot? an hour and a half...
  <daftykins> beats going to the hairdresser ;)
  <zmoylan-pi> moylan is an irish pun for 'offspring of the bald one'... hairdressers aren't a time consuming thing for my family... :-)
  <penguin42> ouch, it's got a few hundred linux-headers packages as well
  <daftykins> yeah that's what i meant by yonder inodes being munched up
  <daftykins> i always take a glance at "dpkg -l | grep linux-" and purge all the history, apt-get autoremove doesn't always do the job
  <penguin42> yeh it's about 15mins into deleting them
  <zmoylan-pi> wow
  <penguin42> still going; it's down about 1M inodes so far :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> remember when you did updates and only 1 computer had an internet connection and it was the one been updated fixed so you had no access to the internet? :-)
  <penguin42> oh only vaguely, I put in a firewall/nat box very early
   * zmoylan-pi mumbles young whipper snappers and waves cane in the air...
  <daftykins> :>
  <penguin42> I think it was a 386/sx at first
  <zmoylan-pi> amstrad pcs, xts with single or on a good day twin 5.25" floppies.  or on a really really good day a single 3.5" floppy
  <zmoylan-pi> before getting a mitac xt at work with a 20mb hardcard
  <daftykins> uh oh we've got us a good old fashioned oldest-tech-off!
  <zmoylan-pi> sorry sorry... in modern news i may have found a replacement for my dumbphone...
   * penguin42 notes the 386/sx was just my earliest router/nat box - my 1st machine was a BBC B with a cassette player for storage
  <zmoylan-pi> oh, in that case a zx spectrum +2
  <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: *gasp* but... but the nokia!?
  <zmoylan-pi> all hail the glorious cassettes for storage... :-D
  <zmoylan-pi> i see the latest argos catalog now has cassette players for hipsters
  <zmoylan-pi> technically if the hardware tests pass the phone it is an older nokia phone. a nokia e63.  about 3 years older than my nokia asha 302 which was made in 2012
  <zmoylan-pi> it's in near mint condition with the camera and flash still covered by factory cellophane strip and earphone socket plugged with cap.
  <daftykins> impressive!
  <zmoylan-pi> and i should have a directory somewhere here with all my symbian apps and data... :-)
  <zmoylan-pi> â¬39 shekels with a 90 day warranty to find any hardware bugs
  <daftykins> not a huge loss then if it turns out to be a duck
  <zmoylan-pi> yup.  i might give python a go on symbian again.
  <zmoylan-pi> i like the nokia dumbphone but i do need a text editor and i can find no java based one that works for the 302
  <zmoylan-pi> and there's a certain joy when people ask how often you need to charge it and you just say sunday :-D
  <daftykins> this OnePlus 3 / 3T a couple of mates have got now seems to be giving them 4 days, which is pretty good for a full size smartphone with 4G
  <zmoylan-pi> 4 days is very good but how heavy a user are they.  when i used psion i got a week from batteries when most got a month
  <daftykins> mmm they said normal usage for them, which their prior phone got a day on
  <zmoylan-pi> when my iphone 3g was brand new i once ran it from 100% -> 10% in just over an hour
  <daftykins> haha
  <daftykins> must've had poor optimisation for trying to ramp up the power and find a UMTS signal at the time
  <daftykins> what was local coverage for 3G like at that point?
  <zmoylan-pi> seems taking pics, using maps, gps, data and sending tweets eats the battery.  in a very good 3g coverage area
  <zmoylan-pi> ...while listening to music
  <zmoylan-pi> whereas the 302 does all that bar gps for 14ish hours and reached 50% battery
  <zmoylan-pi> but 4 days even on light use on a smart phone would suggest that even i would struggle to make it run flat in 1 day
  <daftykins> could be
  <daftykins> i'm a bit religious with mine of turning wifi off when i leave the house... switching down to 2G only when home due to the granite etc
  <zmoylan-pi> for example my huawei y625 cheapy tesco media player was used for 3+ hours listening to podcasts and mp3s and is down to 54%
  <zmoylan-pi> via bt headset. wifi off
  <zmoylan-pi> now tomorrow when i head to the flea market i'll have bt off as well and use fm radio and it will be about the same as fm radio eats the battery a fair bit
  <zmoylan-pi> i use llama for turning off wifi automatically. handy app
  <daftykins> no holidays to Norway for you with that thing, then :) given their FM switch-off
  <zmoylan-pi> they plan to turn off fm radio... but i've heard a few people say they may have to back down.  i have a dab radio and i do like it but i would never buy a portable dab radio as reception is awful
  <daftykins> don't think i've seen one in use yet
  <zmoylan-pi> even in radio blackspots in ireland (lots of granite mountains) fm radio works fairly well.  dab, not at all
  <zmoylan-pi> i got 2 cheap dab radios in tescos. ireland has dab coverage for dublin area and there's 1 great station that plays bbc, npr, chinese, german news hours so you get some interesting coverage of events
  <penguin42>  <still deleting kernel images>
  <daftykins> O_O
  <daftykins> see i would've backed up /home and nuked it with a clean LTS image
  <daftykins> :>
  <zmoylan-pi> hindsight is 20/20 :-)
  <penguin42> well I did back up /home, but hmm - I should have done the computer-janitor first
  <daftykins> well no, i just don't believe in upgrades of any kind
  <zmoylan-pi> spoken like a true windows user :-D
  <daftykins> and enough Loonix to know :>
   * penguin42 has had ubuntu boxes survive at least 5 years of 6 monthly upgrades
  <daftykins> eeeeh, exceptions i'm sure - but when it's your time on the line
  <zmoylan-pi> yeah, but next time penguin42 sees number of kernels > 20 they'll remember the waiting today...
  <zmoylan-pi> for me it was if i ever saw a user had more than 3000 data files... backups over serial then parallel and then finally usb cables would take f.o.r.e.v.e.r.
  <daftykins> that's definitely the longest bit of the job, mmm
  <daftykins> keep seeing budget machines that are new enough but still lack USB 3.0 of late
  <zmoylan-pi> it was then quicker to take apart the pc, move the drive to another pc with a spare drive and copy via hard disk transfer
  <daftykins> yip
  <daftykins> i've actually found that it's quicker to boot a live Loonix session and mount NTFS volumes, when there's a single disk config, and copy to an external as it saves having the OS running too
  <zmoylan-pi> live distros of linux are a godsend
  <daftykins> yip
  <daftykins> even done some Windows only tasks by pasting executables onto install media and hitting shift+F10 to get a command prompt window on top of the installer screens
  <penguin42> right, it's just about booted OK in 14.04, press the button again....
  <daftykins> * a Wile-E-Coyote crater appears in the Manchester area
  <daftykins> :)
  <zmoylan-pi> and acme dodges another refund... :-P
  <penguin42> Meep Meep!
  <penguin42> I mean it should be quicker this time right - I mean it's not got a zillion kernel files to delete, and it couldn't possibly keep me up until 5am....
  <daftykins> :D
  <penguin42> and yes, lots and lots of inodes, down from ~2.4M to ~500k - but still only 5%-1% of inode usage so not actually a problem
  <daftykins> mmm, did once have a user who'd run out from so many upgrades and all the headers kicking around
  <penguin42> This is a useful size hard drive, might be more of a problem on an SSD say; I dont hit it on my other machines because I have separate /boot which ubuntu constantly falls flat into on every update
  <daftykins> only if someone tried to cram a Linux distro onto one of those little cache SSDs that's ~32GB
  <penguin42> yeh
  <penguin42> I've only run out of inodes on old systems with discs in the 10s of MB or when creating things like floppy installations
  <daftykins> i read a piece earlier speaking of SK Hynix planning a 72 layer 10nm 3D NAND die by year end O_O
  <daftykins> hmm, too long ago to recall what this #ubuntu help requester had
   * penguin42 wonders what the aspect ratio of that is - I mean 72 layer
  <daftykins> ?
  <daftykins> they're pretty slim :>
  <penguin42> yeh but if a bit is in the 10s of nm across, by the time you get 72 layers it's very deep
  <daftykins> welp, means they'll reach 256Gb so 64GB per chip
  <penguin42> a quick search for hynix 72 layer said 512Gb
  <daftykins> ah my mistake that's what i meant, ja
  <daftykins> 2TB on a tiny M.2 SSD :)
  <zmoylan-pi> seagate have a 12tb spinny drive in the works with 14 and 16tb to follow in 18 months or so...
  <daftykins> they're also firing lots of folks and closing a factory... still blows my mind how they sell drives with only a 12 month warranty too
  <daftykins> (some models that is)
  <daftykins> doesn't exactly speak of confidence...
  <penguin42> daftykins: http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/intelmicron-detail-their-3d-nand-iedm
  <zmoylan-pi> yeah, my last seagate died after i spent a week transferring files onto it's 2tb capacity
  <zmoylan-pi> but then at this point i've had drives from every manufacturer fail on me
  <daftykins> nothing new to me in that link, sir
  <zmoylan-pi> i usually just add them to top of my naughty list and buy some other manufacturer till a new failure drops them from the top
  <daftykins> they keep on merging and so we're running out :)
   * penguin42 was hoping for a vertical scale on that micrograph
  <zmoylan-pi> this is sadly very true
  #ubuntu-uk 2017-01-29
  <daftykins> only thing about that SK Hynix news piece is it's TLC they're referring to, usually the one i try to avoid
  <penguin42> nod, I did hear a theory that the 3d RAMs tended to have bigger cells on each layer so they weren't quite as bad as the 2D cells where they'd tried to cram them in, but still yes
  <daftykins> i think that was because they kept to higher process sizes (32nm+) in the early days of 3D, now it seems the race to cheap cost has them combining them all
  <penguin42> nod
  <daftykins> nn folks \o
  <zmoylan-1i> o/
  <penguin42> hmm other than a plymouth animation going awol and a rather slow startup it seems OK
  <Bilz> I have a new laptop with intel hd 620 graphics using Ubuntu 16.04. In kernel 4.4, lshw -C display shows that the intel card is UNCLAIMED. In kernel 4.8.17, it does not say UNCLAIMED anymore. presumably the drivers are more up to date in the newer kernel. is it possibe to take the driver from the newer kernel and use it in the older kernel.  (I should mention I've never had to update the kernel like this before, so I don't know much
  <Bilz> about them)
  <SuperMatt> It would indeed be possible if you rebuilt the kernel/driver modules, but my question is why not just use ubuntu 16.10?
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <SuperEngineer> O/
  <daftykins> SuperEngineer: correct answer would've been to suggest an HWE stack :)
  <SuperEngineer> ;-)
  <daftykins> though unclaimed isn't exactly confirmation of anything i'd wager
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-22
  <thelinuxbox> hi, i'm messing around with the ubuntu iso contents, i was wondering if this screen can be disabled https://i.stack.imgur.com/GtEi5.png so instead of the iso booting to that blank screen it boots to the hidden menu behind it, the menu that looks like this > https://i.stack.imgur.com/FfEwE.png
  <thelinuxbox> i'm guessing "Hidden 10" must be somewhere, but I'm just not sure where
  <diplo> Morning all
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <thelinuxbox> Good morning brobostigon :)
  <thelinuxbox> Good morning everyone :)
  <brobostigon> morning
  <czajkowski> anyone here managed to get Netflix to download on a browser on Ubuntu
  <czajkowski> I can do it on the app on my phone
  <czajkowski> but can't find an app on Ubuntu
  <brobostigon> netflix to download what in a browser?
  <SuperMatt> Netflix runs in a browser
  <brobostigon> exactly.
  <SuperMatt> including firefox in linux
  <brobostigon> and chrome.
  <SuperMatt> which came as a surprise to us all
  <diplo> I guess she means offline viewing guys
  <diplo> I've never tried though
  <czajkowski> yes
  <brobostigon> i have never seen the option to do that.
  <SuperMatt> You can't do offline viewing, I believe
  <czajkowski> hmm I think you can on windows
  <diplo> They have a windows 'app'
  <diplo> Windows 10
  <brobostigon> i see, useless for some of us, :)
  <diplo> I like netflix, don't like win10 so deal with streaming for now, guess I could use my sons Android tabket
  <diplo> tablet*
  <brobostigon> is the tabket the north korean tablet? lol.
  <diplo> :p
  <Azelphur> Is anyone here familiar with ebook readers, which ones are good, which ones are not good, etc?
  <Azelphur> Pondering buying one, but don't really know what I should look for
  <daftykins> price of books and how evil the ecosystem provider is would be top i'd imagine :D
  <zmoylan-pi> i've been using ereaders since i first downloaded etexts for my then palm iiix. i've had 4-5 e-ink ereaders.  they work well, have great battery life, work fine outdoors in direct sunlight, it's like reading paper.  and i kept going back to using my cheap tiny phone screens for reading ebooks. less hassle
  <Azelphur> I'm only really concerned with my ability to place ebooks on the device that were downloaded elsewhere, I have no interest in an ecosystem/store
  <Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: that's amusing, I do actually have my mobile and have read ebooks on a mobile before
  <zmoylan-pi> it works fine on dumb phones but whe you have a smart phone a part of your brain is constantly reminding you that you are draining the battery reading a book...
  <daftykins> i had a feeling that might be the case :)
  <Azelphur> eh, that wouldn't bother me too much, I never go anywhere without a portable battery
  <Azelphur> I just feel like e-ink might be easier on the eyes, especially when reading before bed
  <zmoylan-pi> e-ink is definitely more easy on the eyes than smart phones.  also better when outdoors in direct sun light. but it's another device to charge/carry/care for which irked me
  <Azelphur> suppose so, for me I'm only really one for before-bed reading anyway, so it'd probably be right next to a cable always anyway
  <Azelphur> but yea, think you're right, I'll just stick to my phone
  <Azelphur> no point burning money
  <zmoylan-pi> and you can always try green text on black background to see if that makes phone screen easier to read which i find
  <Azelphur> what app do you use?
  <daftykins> i used to use that HP Touchpad tablet but the low screen res was irritating
  <zmoylan-pi> well on my dumb nokia asha 302 i use albite a java app that works very well... on android which i use as a media player, pod catcher i use cool reader
  <daftykins> i prefer dead tree to have some off screen time :)
  <Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: cool ;) will give it a go
  <Azelphur> thanks
  <zmoylan-pi> when i was in hospital last year for 7 weeks the dumb nokia was dead handy as ereader as it only needed charging once a week
  <Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: eh, gotta get on my level, I carry 25600mAh with me
  <zmoylan-pi> and if i dropped the phone when i fell asleep it was a nokia and there was little risk of damaging it
  <zmoylan-pi> yes but by using the nokia i can last a week with mp3s for music and audio books and comedies, fm radio, web, email, irc, rss, java games
  <zmoylan-pi> oh... and ereader... :-)
  <Azelphur> hehe
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-23
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <SuperMatt> ahoi hoi
  <zmoylan-pi> i tought it was ahoy hoy...
  <SuperMatt> I really don't know which it is
  <zmoylan-pi> i thought it was a nod to the naval greeting
  <brobostigon> it is, yes.
  <zmoylan-pi> which is usually spelt with a y
  <SuperMatt> well... phooey
  <zmoylan-pi> phoooi? :-)
  <SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
  <zmoylan-pi> >_>
  <SuperMatt> D:
  <zmoylan-pi> =^..^=
  <diddledan> https://twitter.com/Kuwaddo/status/955810068661981185
  <diplo> hah, replies are also quite good
  <diddledan> haha, I hadn't looked at the replies
  <diddledan> baby groot is epic
  <diplo> :)
  <diplo> Replies are what waste half my time online
  <diplo> :P
  <zmoylan-pi> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/obituaries/ursula-k-le-guin-acclaimed-for-her-fantasy-fiction-is-dead-at-88.html
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-24
  <MooDoo> howdy all
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <SuperMatt> good morning
  <brobostigon> morning
  <czajkowski> aloha
  <brobostigon> morning
  <czajkowski> so oddly when I launch some applications they are so max screen I can't see how to mimmise them :/
  <czajkowski> somewhat baffled
  <popey> Morning :)
  <czajkowski> popey: ello ello
   * diddledan pokes daftykins to see if there is any life left in the idler
   * zmoylan-pi hands diddledan the cattle prod upgrade...
  <diddledan> it has been far too quiet in here lately (I'm also at fault there)
   * diddledan drops the cattle prod on his toe
  <diddledan> weirdly, clicking links in my gmail inbox in ff58 on buntu opens the new tab and then immediately closes it again
  <zmoylan-pi> none shall pass...
  <zmoylan-pi> popups that is
  <diddledan> I have to middle click it to do it via a different mechanism
  <m0nkey_> diddledan: how's that gsuite working out for you?
  <diddledan> Does its job.
  <uniquorn> Hey
  <m0nkey_> I may set-up G Suite, disable purchases from the Play store to prevent locking myself in.
  <uniquorn> So... Im from Sweden. I need an app called bankid on my phone to engage with the government. Can I ask if Ubuntu on a phone would support this?
  <m0nkey_> Wasn't Ubuntu touch dropped?
  <diddledan> It was
  <uniquorn> Ok so there's no Ubuntu edge or something similar?
  <daftykins> diddledan: a much delayed... "ow!" :D
  <diddledan> "ow my *alls"
  <daftykins> yep, falls
  <daftykins> i present to you, hardware porn, cats and the final haul of out of warranty disks (which also meets item 1) https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/GanfIt7T2Gxo5us
  <diddledan> DUST BUNNIES!
  <daftykins> not my place of course
  <diddledan> ooh, WD Gold!
  <daftykins> nah RE2
  <daftykins> err RE4 even
  <diddledan> dame thing, aren't they?
  <diddledan> same*
  <diddledan> gold is the old name
  <diddledan> afaik
  <diddledan> I might be wrong
  <daftykins> new surely, these disks are old
  <daftykins> enterprise models before they launched the Reds
  <diddledan> aha
  <daftykins> i actually thought his desktop had Reds in RAID-1, but newp - so i've got a bunch of randoms now
  <daftykins> weirdly, one of the four reds only writes at 105MB/sec whilst the rest hit 150MB/sec
  <diddledan> popey: should we try amazon go while in Seattle? https://www.amazon.com/b?node=16008589011
  <daftykins> got a live session booted on a core 2 duo upstairs, SSH server installed and then remoted in 4 times from here to zero 3 disks xD
  <daftykins> you two off on a holiday? :)
  <diddledan> yeah we're off on a secret trist
  <daftykins> nice, be sure to find Frasier!
  <zmoylan-pi> all those 2tb drives... how titchy :-) see the 512gb card for phones announced :-)
  <daftykins> ah these are all old yeah
  <daftykins> no plans what to do with them, but technically being out of warranty and spinning so long, they could pop
  <zmoylan-pi> recommend the new helium filled jobbies just to save weight... :-D
  <daftykins> ;)
  <diddledan> do those helium ones float?
  <daftykins> i feel a bit iffy about those for now - also totally dislike the idea of the SMR drives (shingled magnetic recording) where write rates are slow due to needing to wait for it to rewrite adjacent tracks
  <zmoylan-pi> no, not light enough... you need hydrogen ones to float but no smoking is allowed of course...
  <diddledan> not even the magic smoke?
  <diddledan> the blue kind
  <zmoylan-pi> well when the magic smoke is released the problem goes away
  <diddledan> Rabies from Maid Marian and her Merry Men has died :-( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42775406
  <daftykins> how old! O_O
  <zmoylan-pi> In a 2003 interview, Lewis said he turned to acting after many years working in computers. He added that when they decided to make him a manager, "it was time to move on and became an actor".
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-25
  <diddledan> that's the obvious reaction
  <zmoylan-pi> i still prefer the mainframe os developer who quit, joined a commune and refused to deal with any time units smaller than a season... :-)
  <daftykins> diddledan: i keenly await your debut film
  <diddledan> pah
  <popey> diddledan: i was thinking of trying amazon go while there myself actually, assuming it works with non US accounts
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <diddledan> allo allo
  <daftykins> \o
  <daftykins> oops i nearly had two heads
  <zmoylan-pi> theese is night 'awk calling
  <diddledan> \oo/
  <daftykins> woo!
  <zmoylan-pi> hey, it's president zaphod... ::counts the arms::
  <zmoylan-pi> imposter!1
  <daftykins> i'm watching Terminator 1 on bluray, i was just testing it but i've ended up just sitting here...
  <diddledan> lol
  <zmoylan-pi> a simpler time when all you had to do to stop the robot rebellion was have access to one hydralic press...
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> aww spoilers :P
  <zmoylan-pi> and your speaker system wasn't spying on you...
  <diddledan> "the robots are revolting!"
  <daftykins> how rude
  <zmoylan-pi> now the press would be computer controlled and need a 5 minute warm up plus updates before it squashed it's first terminator...
  <Azelphur> browsing eBay, found a graphics card with "super low consumption and calorific value" for all you people on a diet of graphics cards, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GTX960-4GB-GDDR5-128Bit-PCI-E-Extended-Port-Game-Graphic-Video-Card-Fit-PC-Hot/112691798850?hash=item1a3cf46342:g:uLIAAOSw401aD~0O
  <zmoylan-pi> is it gluten free? :-)
  <Azelphur> Dunno, you'll have to ask the seller and let us know
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> mmm silicon snacks
  <zmoylan-pi> be honest scooby, you'd do it for a silicon snack... :-)
  <daftykins> "ruh-roh, rot rintel!"
  <zmoylan-pi> at least it's not nvidia...
  <Azelphur> It's a fake graphics card btw, don't buy it.
  <zmoylan-pi> but a stradivarius video card? :-P
  <Azelphur> haha
  <daftykins> nvidia might not be open sauce's fave, but they do run nice :P
  <zmoylan-pi> assumiung nothing goes wrong for you in the lifetime of the card...
  <zmoylan-pi> nvidia is for life not just for christmas...
  <Azelphur> Amusingly, I'm looking at them because there's an opening to scam the scammers, kinda amusing
  <Azelphur> The scammers take old cards, reflash the firmware so they appear as new cards, and sell them on eBay to unsuspecting noobs
  <zmoylan-pi> well the gold standard is the guy who got the scammer to carve a wooden c64...
  <Azelphur> But, if you buy one, remove the heatsink and check the chip, you can prove what it is, do an ebay chargeback, get them banned, and guet a free gpu
  <daftykins> i'd much rather a whole PCB with RAM chips too ;D (for non-HBM)
  <NET||abuse> hey guys, i'm doing maintenance on my cluster, i think my setup was uncompressed, so i've run scrub, rebalance and now defrag, but i've added the -clzo option to the defrag, and i haven't re-mounted, but added lzo to the fstab
  <NET||abuse> when do i need to remount, or what happens to uncompressed files on disk which are perhaps written after the defrag but before remount,
  <NET||abuse> or does the btrfs just know that files on disk are not compressed, and lazy re-write them as compressed then if they move them.
  <diddledan> wat: https://youtu.be/bUR_eUVcABg
  <daftykins> no thanks :<
  <diddledan> looks like it's a wrapper around a barstewardised emacs
  <daftykins> PR for pints welcome
  <diddledan> is facebook down for anyone else? it's telling me "your account is unavailable due to a site issue" and saying I should try later
  <daftykins> sounds like an upgrade :)
  <daftykins> tried the ol' downdetector website?
  <diddledan> perhaps I've been deleted
  <diddledan> amnesia is free right now on humble: https://www.humblebundle.com/store/amnesia-collection
  <daftykins> amnesia's no fun! ;)
  <diddledan> scary
  <diddledan> aka "how to spy on the ladies' changing rooms" https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/956617953369362433
  <zmoylan-pi> no need for high tech... https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/voyeur-spied-hotel-guests-beds-7701281
  <zmoylan-pi> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/admiral-charges-hotmail-users-more-for-car-insurance-hrzjxsslr
  <diddledan> wat
  <diddledan> paywall
  <daftykins> :D
  <daftykins> seems pretty fair, if based on statistics
  <diddledan> only if you really are a bad driver
  <diddledan> if you're a great driver it's unfair discrimination
  <zmoylan-pi> bad driver, bad webmail provider... you can see the obvious link...
  <diddledan> what they really need is a five-star rating system where they just plain ask you: "how good a driver are you?"
  <diddledan> well MS stopped handing out hotmail.com emails years ago so the only folk who have them are like me: old
  <diddledan> those young whipper snappers with their live.com emails and Windows Vista
  <zmoylan-pi> even worse, people who stick with obsolete tech, can you imagine the cars they drive?? http://www.fordmodelt.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ford1-1024x674.jpg
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-26
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <BobMottram[m]> G'day
  <SuperMatt> friday friday friday
  <Azelphur> gotta get down on friday?
  <SuperMatt> OH GOD
  <SuperMatt> You had to remind us, didn't you?
  <Azelphur> hehe
  <daftykins> we have it as a trigger in another channel (:
  <daftykins> bit like a rick-rolling but without a good tune
  <SuperMatt> If it wasn't for the fact that no one is around much in the office on a friday, I'd have it blast out of the speakers of my work machine
  <daftykins> i thought nobody around would be the reason *to* play it ;D
  <diddledan> epic teacher is epic: https://twitter.com/heydebigale/status/956922033023074304
  <daftykins> guaranteed every student just thought she'd stayed out all night
  <ana_> hi. ubuntu just did the normal update, when restarting, wi-fi just won't connect
  <ana_> keeps asking for password then asks again
  <daftykins> forget the network entirely, try that
  <daftykins> ana_: did you try that?
  <daftykins> or are you getting support elsewhere...
  <ana_> try what?
  <ana_> daftykins, i am not getting support elsewhere
  <ana_> i googled it, no solution
  <daftykins> 21:21 < daftykins> forget the network entirely, try that
  <ana_> what is "that"
  <daftykins> the first part of the sentence
  <daftykins> FORGET THE NETWORK
  <ana_> yes i'm using ethernet now, i.e. cable not wifi. other wise i woun't be talking ...
  <ana_> here ...
  <diddledan> methinks there's a lingo barrier
  <ana_> yes. me not know lingo. plain english needed please :)
  <daftykins> saving a wireless network is how it's usually used, so delete the profile for it, so it doesn't remember it
  <daftykins> it was totally clear to me, i have no idea how any English speaker can fail to understand that
  <ana_> tried that, didn't work
  <ana_> (i think)
  <daftykins> confirm.
  <ana_> deleted the network from the list of networks, re-found it, re-entered password. problem not solved
  <daftykins> can you run: dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999
  <ana_> http://termbin.com/w9rs
  <daftykins> oh dear
  <daftykins> diddledan: i did it again
  <diddledan> damn you did. that's a nasty disk right there
  <daftykins> ana_: umm, aside from the wifi issue - your hard disk is faulty and if you have any important data on it, you are living on borrowed time
  <daftykins> likely the upgrade has caused breakage by writing to bad areas
  <ana_> ok. so i should change the hard drive?
  <ana_> thank you daftykins
  <daftykins> yep
  <daftykins> no problem
  <ana_> ok thank you
  <ana_> so that's the next step then ... thanks
  <ana_> can i ask further .. why would my hard drive be damaged?
  <daftykins> age
  <daftykins> looks like a 320GB museum piece
  <ana_> hmm
  <ana_> oh
  <diddledan> UDMA/133 - IDE
  <ana_> hehe
  <daftykins> ana_: if you wouldn't mind one more command: sudo apt install smartmontools && sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | nc termbin.com 9999
  <daftykins> (select 'no configuration' when/if a screen asks
  <daftykins> )
  <ana_> can i ask what that will do
  <daftykins> share the diagnostics information of your disk with us, nothing personally identifiable
  <daftykins> just confirms how far gone it is
  <diddledan> it will install smartmontools then it will ran smartctl then it will post to termbin.com
  <daftykins> ^
  <diddledan> reading goes from left to right
  <ana_> $ sudo apt install smartmontool
  <ana_> [sudo] password for ana:
  <ana_> Reading package lists... Done
  <ana_> Building dependency tree
  <ana_> Reading state information... Done
  <ana_> E: Unable to locate package smartmontool
  <daftykins> it's smartmontools
  <ana_> $ sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | nc termbin.com 9999
  <ana_> sudo: smartctl: command not found
  <ana_> ah
  <ana_> shoiuld i answer everything yes?
  <daftykins> yep
  <ana_> ok
  <ana_> oh dear
  <ana_> can i post here?
  <daftykins> yep
  <ana_> Package configuration
  <ana_>                âââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ¤ Postfix Configuration âââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ
  <ana_>                â Please select the mail server configuration type that best meets your needs.  â
  <ana_>                â                                                                               â
  <ana_>                â  No configuration:                                                            â
  <ana_>                â   Should be chosen to leave the current configuration unchanged.              â
  <ana_>                â  Internet site:                                                               â
  <ana_>                â   Mail is sent and received directly using SMTP.                              â
  <ana_>                â  Internet with smarthost:                                                     â
  <ana_>                â   Mail is received directly using SMTP or by running a utility such           â
  <diddledan> ee gads
  <daftykins> oh i thought you meant the URL
  <ana_>                â   as fetchmail. Outgoing mail is sent using a smarthost.                      â
  <daftykins> select 'no configuration' there
  <ana_>                â  Satellite system:                                                            â
  <ana_>                â   All mail is sent to another machine, called a 'smarthost', for delivery.    â
  <ana_>                â  Local only:                                                                  â
  <ana_>                â   The only delivered mail is the mail for local users. There is no network.   â
  <ana_>                â                                                                               â
  <ana_>                â General type of mail configuration:                                           â
  <ana_>                â                                                                               â
  <ana_>                â                           No configuration           â                        â
  <ana_>                â                           Internet Site              â®
  <ana_> sorry :)
  <ana_> (Reading database ... 95%
  <ana_> what i am installing?
  <ana_> (please don't answer 'a program')
  <diddledan> a _specific_ program
  <diddledan> :-p
  <ana_> :)
  <diddledan> you're installing smartmontools, as I pointed out above
  <ana_> ~$ sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | nc termbin.com 9999
  <ana_> http://termbin.com/5pp6
  <diddledan> she's dead jim
  <daftykins> yeah 2,900 bad sectors, DANGER UBUNTU ROBINSON!
  <ana_> ok. so, basically, do a back up of hard drive, change hard drive
  <diddledan> yeah, at this point with that disk anything you write to it is suspect
  <daftykins> yep, do you have an external hard disk to backup to?
  <ana_> yes i do regular backups
  <ana_> as in, yearly or so... hehe
  <daftykins> xD
  <daftykins> i like the honesty
  <ana_> i knew i had to change the hard drive, but it does mean to halt all other work for a day or two
  <ana_> so i was postponing
  <diddledan> I like that message near the top of the smart output: "Drive failure expected in less than 24 hours. SAVE ALL DATA."
  <daftykins> that's a fairly old machine, you might want to consider picking up a solid state drive (SSD) instead of HDD for the replacement, it'll be a huge speed increase
  <ana_> well all important stuff is sent to other people, so, i was surviving
  <ana_> most my files ultimately live in several people's servers or computers
  <daftykins> yeah the longer it's even turned on, the less likely you'll be able to get your data off safely
  <daftykins> ah that's handy then
  <ana_> hand on. solid state drive
  <ana_> instead of hdd? what does it mean?
  <diddledan> HDD is a spinning lump of metal. SSD is microchips
  <ana_> wonder if it would fit  on this laptop
  <daftykins> definitely, already seen the specs
  <daftykins> though i'd take it to a reliable source for assistance in choosing such an upgrade
  <ana_> in any case ... i have this internal hard drive to replace in  a draw, waiting for replacent ... but will make a note, for next time
  <ana_> wow, thanks again
  <daftykins> ah
  <diddledan> drawer hard disks are awesome
  <ana_> this channels helpfulness will never cease to amaze me
  <ana_> haha :)
  <ana_> thank you!
  <diddledan> "I need a new disk".. "oh there's one in that drawer!"
  <ana_> need to call it a night now
  <ana_> :D
  <diddledan> me too
  <ana_> thank you thank you! good night :)
  <diddledan> sleep now
  <daftykins> g'night to you both \o
  <diddledan> nn
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-27
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <daftykins> morning indeed!
  <brobostigon> morning daftykins
  <daftykins> diddledan: what was the brand of 10Gb NICs you picked up when you got dabbling?
  <diddledan> for vmware I got an intel, and for freenas I got a chelsio
  <daftykins> ja just found some chelsios :)
  <daftykins> just messing about really but looking at what the options would be
  <penguin42> I guess you're using 10G-T
  <diddledan> https://insights.ubuntu.com/?p=82808
  <diddledan> aka "Let's all descend upon Seattle" :-p
  <zmoylan-pi> what? is it 80% of the price of nutella?! :-P
  <diddledan> hmm?
  <zmoylan-pi> missed the nutella riots in france? :-)
  <diddledan> guess I must have
  <penguin42> do pay attention
  <penguin42> I guess you missed the 50 escaped apes as well?
  <diddledan> 50 escaped apes? are they super intelligent?
  <penguin42> well, that depends if they were also behind the nutella riots
  <zmoylan-pi> the riots _DID_ provide a distraction while they were escaping...
  <diddledan> see, right now I'm unsure whether these things actually happened or you're yanking my noodle
  <zmoylan-pi> noodles are too serious to be yanked... trust me, i'm a pastafarian...
  <penguin42> diddledan: Seriously, both did
  <zmoylan-pi> nutella riots.. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42826028
  <penguin42> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/26/paris-zoo-shut-baboons-escape
  <diddledan> jeez
  <zmoylan-pi> 2018 the year the headlines seemed faker than the enquirer headlines of the 1980s...
  <penguin42> There's no requirement for reality to make sense
  <zmoylan-pi> ...so not covered by warranty then...bugger...
  <diddledan> sleepysleep time
   * zmoylan-pi hands diddledan a mug of happy sleepy snoozy snooze
  <diddledan> *thud*
  <diddledan> zzzz
   * diddledan sets alerm for silly oclock
  <zmoylan-pi> if only it were an alarm clock... :-) https://i.imgur.com/i9c6X7i.jpg
  <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I'd assume it would play the call of the Norwegian Blue
  #ubuntu-uk 2018-01-28
  <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
  <Nafallo> morning
  <brobostigon> morning
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-20
  <brobostigon> morning
  <zxmoypi>  o/
  <brobostigon> \o
  <knightwise> hey guys
  <brobostigon> morning
  <sebsebseb> hi
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-21
  <Myrtti> brrrrrr
  <Myrtti> cold
  <keithbarry> Hello I am ne her and need help
  <keithbarry> new and here
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-22
  <brobostigon> morning
  <zxmoypi> o/
  <brobostigon> \o
  <zxmoypi> terry jone, monty python star dies aged 77 :'( https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-51209197
  <brobostigon> :(
  <brobostigon> and writer of, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Adams%27_Starship_Titanic:_A_Novel :)
  <zxmoypi> director of life of brian....
  <brobostigon> voice actor to the game of the same name.
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-23
  <brobostigon> morning
  <zxmoypi> o/
  <brobostigon> \o
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-24
  <brobostigon> morning
  <zxmoypi> o/
  <brobostigon> o/
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-25
  <brobostigon> morning
  <zxmoypi> o/
  <brobostigon> \o
  <knightwise> hey peepz
  <daftykins> \o
  #ubuntu-uk 2020-01-26
  <brobostigon> morning
  <zxmoypi> o/
  <brobostigon> o/
  <daftykins> \o
  <daftykins> about to go on a journey to the electronics recycling centre to offload some old gear
  <daftykins> mostly faulty parts though i think
  <daftykins> my little 3" Casio portable TV is still working, just nothing to pick up ;D
  <penguin42> drive it off a Pi?
  <daftykins> it only has the antenna, can't think of anything more impractical
  