101611


I recently learned of the Korean word 가방 ( _gaban_ ), which is supposedly
derived from 鞄 (かばん), but it seems there isn't much of a solid trail after
that.

From what I can tell, it might be related to the Chinese _jiābǎn_ , though
under the Korean entry for
[가방](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%EA%B0%80%EB%B0%A9#Korean), there's
mention of the Dutch _kabas_.

Wiktionary is too brief to be decisive here. Do we have a good guess as to the
etymology of かばん, and is it related to the Korean 가방, the Dutch _kabas_ , or
the Chinese _jiābǎn_?


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2023-11-10T05:30:54.193
101607
2023-11-11T04:51:22.300
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question
etymology
Etymology of 鞄 (かばん)


> Wiktionary is too brief to be decisive here.

I'm an admin over there, and helped work on the [Japanese entry for
鞄](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%9E%84#Japanese). We seldom get the
chance to talk with users directly about the site, so I'm keen to find out
from you -- what kind of expansion of the etymology there would be helpful to
you? If you're open to longer discussion than a one-off comment below, please
do so [on my Wiktionary talk
page](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Eirikr), since this particular topic
is outside scope for the Japanese Stack Exchange.

> Do we have a good guess as to the etymology of かばん, and is it related to the
> Korean 가방 ( _kabang_ )...

I'm not fluent in Korean, but what I can glean about 가방 is that it was a
borrowing from Japanese. See also the [Korean Wikipedia
article](https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EA%B0%80%EB%B0%A9), or [this page on
Namu.wiki](https://namu.wiki/w/%EA%B0%80%EB%B0%A9#%EC%96%B4%EC%9B%90).

> ...[is かばん related to] the Dutch _kabas_...

From the Namu.wiki page, it seems like the National Institute of the Korean
Language views Dutch _kabas_ as the origin of the Japanese term, and a few
posts on the Korean "Naver" site (like [this
one](https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.naver?isHttpsRedirect=true&blogId=lafi21&logNo=220244569593))
follow suit. The Japanese-language [Daijisen entry on
Kotobank](https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9E%84-465636#E3.83.87.E3.82.B8.E3.82.BF.E3.83.AB.E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.B3.89)
also mentions the Dutch term _kabas_ as another possibility.

However, this theory is problematic in multiple ways.

  * The Dutch word is more specifically Belgian Flemish ([1](https://www.woorden.org/woord/kabas), [2](https://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M029363&lemmodern=kabas&Betekenis_id=M029363.bet.1)), apparently. Some mainstream monolingual Dutch dictionaries don't even include the word, like the [_Algemeen Nederlands Woordenboek_](https://anw.ivdnt.org/search?type=simple&q=kabas).
  * The main meaning of the term seems to be "basket", in keeping with its [derivation](https://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M029363&lemmodern=kabas&Betekenis_id=M029363.bet.1) in turn from Middle French [_cabas_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cabas#French) of similar sense. This doesn't overlap well with the Japanese term's attested meaning of "satchel", nor the kanji 鞄's earlier sense of "worked leather; leather bag".
  * The phonology is decidedly off -- that final //s// in the Dutch has no correlation with the final //ɴ// in the Japanese.
  * The Japanese term 鞄 with the reading _kaban_ and a meaning of "bag, satchel" isn't attested until 1877. This makes the semantic (meaning) and phonological (sound) changes required to go from Flemish _kabas_ ("basket") to Japanese _kabaɴ_ ("satchel") even less likely.

→ Ultimately, I think the Flemish term is an accidental kinda-sorta
resemblance, and not at all related. It's actually surprisingly easy to find
words in any two languages that kinda sorta sound similar and kinda sorta have
similar meanings -- and this gets even easier if you aren't that picky about
the sounds and the meanings lining up all that closely, as with _kabas_
("basket") and _kabaɴ_ ("satchel"). If you're interested in word origins and
comparative linguistics, I highly recommend you read ["How likely are chance
resemblances between languages?"](https://www.zompist.com/chance.htm) The
author even lays out a well-backed-up mathematical model for determining the
likelihood of such non-cognate similarities. See also [this other
post](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/73488/5229) exploring any possible
connection between English _name_ and Japanese 名前 ( _namae_ ).

> ... or [is かばん related to] the Chinese _jiābǎn_?

Per the references cited in the Wiktionary entry (Daijirin [no free online
version I'm aware of], NKD [available via Kotobank
[here](https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9E%84-465636)], Encyclopedia Nipponica
[entry
[here](https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9E%84-465636#E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E5.A4.A7.E7.99.BE.E7.A7.91.E5.85.A8.E6.9B.B8.28.E3.83.8B.E3.83.83.E3.83.9D.E3.83.8B.E3.82.AB.29),
also on Kotobank]) and
[Daijisen](https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9E%84-465636#E3.83.87.E3.82.B8.E3.82.BF.E3.83.AB.E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.B3.89)
(not yet included in the Wiktionary entry's references), the connection with
Chinese 夹板 or 夾槾 keeps getting referenced as the likely source.

  * Phonologically, this makes some sense, considering the Japanese references' indicated reading of きゃばん and the pronunciation of Chinese languages like Min Nan's _kiap-pán_. A shift from きゃばん to かばん is much easier to explain as a change from palatal glide //ja// to //a//, a monophthongization. I notice too that [apparently](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%A4%BE#Chinese) another Min Nan pronunciation for the 夾 character is _kap_.
  * Semantically, the Japanese resources describe the Chinese term as purportedly meaning something like "pressing together + board" in reference to a container or holder for documents, essentially a kind of briefcase (two flat stiff boards used to sandwich documents and keep them flat), which is also a closer match than the Flemish word for "basket".

→ In conclusion, while not definite (as the [Nipponica
entry](https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9E%84-465636#E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E5.A4.A7.E7.99.BE.E7.A7.91.E5.85.A8.E6.9B.B8.28.E3.83.8B.E3.83.83.E3.83.9D.E3.83.8B.E3.82.AB.29)
itself calls out: 「語源【ごげん】はかならずしも明確【めいかく】でないが...」, "the etymology is not
entirely clear, but..."), the Chinese derivation seems the most likely.


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2023-11-10T21:37:45.973
101611
2023-11-10T21:37:45.973
5229
101607
answer


Is the desire to know the etymology due to the sound of the word or how the
Kanji is written?

If it's the Kanji, looking at its parts may give more understanding. 革 or
'kawa' is leather and 包 or 'kurumu/tsutsumu' is (a) wrap.

If the origin of the sound (phoneme?) is what you seek, I believe Eiríkr
Útlendi's explaination of the Min Nan pronunciation makes the most sense. (I
really couldn't add anything to it.)


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2023-11-11T04:51:22.300
101618
2023-11-11T04:51:22.300
57981
101607
answer