

So I was studying this book called 日本語生中継, and there was this question where
you're supposed to choose the inappropriate word among others. And I got stuck
at this sentence:

私は、パソコンが(得意だ.わかる.上手だ.)

The book says the correct, or rather, incorrect answer, was 上手だ. But I don't
seem to understand why, as all three seem correct to me.


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2012-09-13T22:22:22.467
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question
usage words
パソコンが　得意だ/わかる/上手だ


I am a native Japanese speaker so I think I have been properly differentiating
these two words unconsciously, but I couldn't really articulate what makes
them different, so I looked up. Here I briefly summarize the article cited
below.

The difference between 得意 and 上手 can be illuminated most when you translate
into Japanese the following sentence: "This novel is well written."

> この小説は上手に書けている。
>
> この小説は得意に書けている。

While the former is perfectly natural, the latter is simply wrong. This is
contrasting with the sentence from the OP. The question is, why the
difference?

It appears that 得意 is used to describe the (good) skills to do/produce
something, while 上手 is used to describe the results of the (good) skills put
to use. In the example above, the former sounds natural since the novel is a
product of the writer's skill. On the other hand, the latter does not make
sense since the novel itself is not a skill; it's a product of a good skill.
Perhaps, a similar reasoning leads a somewhat rigid Japanese language teacher
to think that 私はパソコンが上手だ to be technically wrong, since a personal computer is
not a product of skill itself.

However, I find it's totally natural to hear that sentence myself. After all,
many Americans say "I don't have no money." While it's grammatically
incorrect, it sounds natural and accepted to a certain group of people, right?
:P

Seriously, in a way, 私はパソコンが上手だ is perfectly natural since you could argue
that here it's totally expected that パソコン means パソコン（を使うこと）, and a variety of
skills can lead to using a computer well, such as drawing on Photoshop,
programming games, making music, using Excel, etc. So the reason why we feel
the usage is natural could be because our notion of using computer has
changed. Computer can do a lot of things, and we attach a lot of different
meanings to (using) computer. Just my feeble thought...

参照元: <http://home.alc.co.jp/db/owa/jpn_npa?sn=28>


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2012-09-14T08:19:44.430
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answer


The other answer to this question is **wrong and misleading** concerning the
textbook where this problem is originating from. Don't trust it, as I did. I
am at a well-known Japanese university doing Japanese language courses where
we also use the textbook this question is from. I was doing my homework and
got stuck at this very question, just as you. I read the incorrect answer and
told the native Japanese teacher who looked at me puzzled. She pointed out
that I, or rather the answer provided by Taro Sato is missing a crucial
element.

**The actual answer is:** You can't use 上手 with 私. It is really that simple.
This may not be a grammatical error, but it sounds extremely braggy and
Japanese people just don't use it. It is important to point out that the other
answer is wrong because it's perfectly fine to use 上手 in the same situation
talking about someone else. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A SKILL OR A
VERB OR NOT. **For example** 田中さんはパソコンが上手らしい。That is completely acceptable,
according to my native university level Japanese teacher who has been teaching
for several decades. Similar rules apply for 下手. Use it for other people, but
use 苦手 when talking about yourself, although this is more common than 上手
because stating that you can't do something is not a brag. I hope this helps
people in the future not to be embarrassed in class.

To clarify, I am not saying that the connotational difference pointed out in
the other answer does not exit, it very well might be the case. I just wanted
to provide an answer based on the problem in the textbook, which is quite
clearly hinting at the difference between referring to oneself and others, at
least according to my teacher.


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