28796


As mentioned in [this answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/14374/15542),
the terms _seme_ and _uke_ are used in yaoi to describe a duality:

> Yaoi fans have adapted these terms to describe the roles in a male/male
> relationship: the seme is the one who takes the traditional male role:
> initiates the relationship, "pursues" the uke and is usually "on top" during
> sex. This can get ridiculously codified and outright heteronormative, e.g.
> the seme has to be taller and stronger, not show their emotions, etc. The
> "uke ends up winning" aspect may or may not be relevant.

If there is an equivalent to this kind of relationship in yuri manga and
animation, what is it called?


CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-24T23:32:45.157
28319
2017-03-20T05:55:43.110
2017-04-13T12:54:49.117
-1
15542
question
terminology
What is the equivalent of "seme" and "uke" in yuri culture?


On [Wikipedia disambiguation page for
"Seme"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seme) one of the suggested usages of the
term is:

> Seme, a manga/anime term for a dominant partner in a homosexual relationship

The first paragraph of that ["seme"
link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi#Seme_and_uke) says:

> The two participants in a yaoi relationship ( **and to a lesser extent in
> yuri** ) are often referred to as seme ("top") and uke ("bottom").

Now given that the first page only says homosexsual and according to
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality)

> Homosexuality (from Ancient Greek ὁμός, meaning "same", and Latin sexus,
> meaning "sex") is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior
> between members of the same sex or gender.

Since, shoujo ai/yuri involves lesbian relationships which are romantic
attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between two females, the
terms probably are the same in shoujo ai/yuri.

Funny enough if we look at the ["Yuri" page on
Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri), it's a disambiguation page
unlike the "Yaoi" page that I linked to and the [yuri
genre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_\(genre\)) pages are nowhere nearly
as fleshed out as the yaoi page (and there is no yaoi (genre) page either).
Given that _seme_ and _uke_ are fan terms one might assume that yaoi fans
wanted clear terms to describe who the dominant partner in the relationship
is. This is something yuri fans do not have much need for: in my view, there
is no set dominant partner in shoujo ai/yuri. Rather that role can switch very
easily between the members of the relationship.


CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-25T00:28:13.913
28323
2017-03-20T05:55:43.110
2017-03-20T05:55:43.110
2604
1587
28319
answer


The female equivalent term for seme/butch/top/dominant is "tachi", while the
one for uke/femme/bottom/submissive is "neko". (Reference: [_Emerging Lesbian
Voices from
Japan_](https://books.google.com/books?id=ztSB2k_sG2gC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=tachi+neko+lesbian&source=bl&ots=yKLD6nGfia&sig=KrJkHCxLFaKucUecjqLRef5qcfw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTrceW4ZvKAhUS6mMKHe27DhUQ6AEIIDAC#v=onepage&q=tachi%20neko%20lesbian&f=false).)

I'm not sure if the usage is as prevalent among fans and makers of the yuri
genre as "seme" and "uke" are for yaoi fans, since I neither socialize with
them nor read any fandom meta.


CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-01-09T03:25:41.573
28793
2016-01-09T03:38:00.887
2016-01-09T03:38:00.887
2604
20309
28319
answer


If you use "uke" and "seme" to describe particpants in yuri relationships, I
imagine you'll be understood, but it'd be very weird - male homosexual
relationships and female homosexual relationships are conceptualized quite
differently from one another in Japan, and uke/seme is only an element of the
former. I don't think [Memor-X's
answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/28323/) quite gets at this.

* * *

Here is a basic (and oversimplified) sketch of how homosexuality is
conceptualized: in a relationship between two men, one of them needs to "be
the woman". Hence, we have this deep dichotomy between "uke" ("the woman") and
"seme" ("the man"). On the other hand, in a relationship between two women,
there is no need for one of them to "be the man" - and so the uke/seme
distinction does not arise as obviously. Indeed, there's this notion called リバ
(~"riba", from "reversible") to describe a lesbian who is fluid with respect
to her role in a sexual situation; I'm not aware of an equivalent term for
men.

Why is there this asymmetry? The reasons are probably myriad; one obvious one
derives from how penetrative sex works - one party must "attack" ("seme") and
the other party must "receive" ("uke") - and penetrative sex is obviously more
commonly an element of male homosexual relationships than female ones. In this
respect, Euro-American and Japanese notions of male homosexuality are not
entirely dissimilar.

But anyway, whatever the reason, the fact of the matter is that uke/seme
terminology is _by far_ more entrenched in the male homosexual community than
the female homosexual community. And this distinction percolates from actual
homosexual communities to the communities of people who consume media about
homosexuality (yaoi/yuri). The Japanese-proficient reader may like to note the
following:

  * The Japanese Wikipedia [article on yuri](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AC%E3%82%BA%E3%83%93%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E7%94%A8%E8%AA%9E) does not reference the notion of "uke" or "seme".
  * dic.pixiv's [article on yuri](http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E7%99%BE%E5%90%88) has explicit commentary about the ordering of names in a pairing (consider "MadoHomu" vs. "HomuMado") having nothing to do with uke/seme. (dic.pixiv is obviously not a "reliable source" in the [WP:IRS sense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources), but I'd say it _is_ reflective of the views and concerns of the community of people who consume yuri media.)
  * The [glossary](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eUzinMHDBTMJ:www.lesbian.jp/sp/lword/%20&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) on the website of the "Lesbian Girls Club" in Osaka (with the wonderful domain name "lesbian.jp") only uses "uke" and "seme" as part of comparisons to related notions specific to lesbianism, like "tachi" and "neko" (as noted in [makihige's answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/28793/)).
  * But, things like dic.pixiv and other websites for fans of yuri media generally do _not_ use the terms "tachi" and "neko". For reasons that are unclear to me, these terms, unlike "uke" and "seme", do not seem to have percolated from the lesbian community to fans of yuri media.

* * *

The basic takeaways are these:

  * Using "uke" and "seme" for female-female relationships is weird and not generally done. 
  * That particular dichotomy is not really even a thing in the Japanese conception of lesbianism, though other dichotomies, like "tachi"/"neko", are things.
  * Consequently, in yuri media, "uke" and "seme" are, again, not really used. 
  * However, "tachi" and "neko" are not really used by fans of yuri media either.

And so, the answer to OP's title question is basically this: not only is there
not a one-to-one equivalent to "uke"/"seme"; there isn't even really any
terminology at all that's used to dichotomize relationships in yuri media.
Them's the breaks.


CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-01-09T04:33:22.137
28796
2016-01-09T04:33:22.137
2017-04-13T12:54:49.117
-1
1908
28319
answer