

I've watched both the Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night anime (including the
Unlimited Blade Works movie), but none of the visual novels, so no spoilers
from that unless they are light spoilers. One thing that bothered me was that
despite the fact that heroic spirits are defined by the public opinion/view of
them, some heroes had qualities that were in direct opposition of what the
public thought.

We know that heroic spirits, being sealed on their Throne of Heroes, are meant
to be completely unchanged. This is the entire point of the Throne of Heroes.
But this seems to be in opposition of the previous fact that heroic spirits
are defined by what others think they are. Then there are Counter Guardians
who are completely different, I believe, in that they are not sealed on their
Throne of Heroes.

One particularly important Counter Guardian of the series is Arturia, or
Saber. Arturia is female, despite the fact that she was treated by even her
contemporaries as male, and has gone done in history as male. In fact, there
isn't even any small hint as to Arturia's gender being anything other than
male in our history, or the history of the Nasuverse (I believe). This being
true, shouldn't Arturia be male?

This not being the case shouldn't Arturia be erased, or else create
instability in the World? Same with Iskander. In history he is known for being
pretty short, even for a Macedonian. That he is very tall means there is an
incongruity with human knowledge and true fact.

Furthermore, in the Unlimited Blade Works movie Archer is revealed to be
Heroic Spirit Emiya. If Heroic Spirit Emiya is summoned before he is even a
hero, or acquired his gift from the World, etc., then how is it that Heroic
Spirit Emiya is even strong at all? The power of a Servant being based on
their popularity at the time of their summoning, Emiya should be weaker than
pretty much every other Servant, and then some.

Maybe I'm just over-analyzing things, or I have some misconception. In any
case, answers are appreciated.


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fate-stay-night fate-zero
Why is King Arthur female? Why is Iskander tall?


Firstly, Altria. what we see in Fate/Stay Night is not originally what Kinoko
Nasu first wrote, the original version was called Old Fate (旧Fate) or Fate
Origin which was re-imagined into
[Fate/Prototype](http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Fate/Prototype), in this
Altria's character would have been a man (Arthur) and Shirou's character would
be female (Ayaka Sajyou). Of course, this is no longer part of the Canon that
is the Nasuverse but I thought I point out that originally Altria would have
been a man.

As for Altria herself being a woman, Merlin's prophecy never indicated the
gender of the future king, it was just a common view that a King would be a
man; the inscription on Excalibur (or Caliburn, I can't remember which it was)
also didn't indicate that a man had to be the one to pull the sword out.

As Altria acted the part of the king, she dressed and acted much like one,
even to the point that Merlin made her into a pseudo-male and
[Mordred's](http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Mordred) identity was concealed, so
because of that, their genders are normally concealed and were thought to be
men. There is also ambiguity with the Arthurian Legend as in the Visual Novel,
Shirou says that some legends portrayed "Arthur" as a woman or a group of
people, which is why he wasn't surprised that "Arthur" was a woman (more so
that he summoned her).

Also, "King Arthur" became more of a symbol than anything else. Merlin was
clearly aware of this when he warned Altria before she pulled the sword from
the stone that if she did she wouldn't be human anymore.

One thing you may have missed is that Altria isn't in the Throne of Heroes
like most heroic spirits. Those who are in the Throne of Heroes are in there
because they made a contract with the world to receive the strength to be a
hero so it's their price. Altria became a hero on her own, but _on her death_.
She desired the Holy Grail to redo the sword-drawing Ceremony and find someone
whom she believed to be more capable of being a king than her. She made a
contract with the world _to become a heroic spirit if she got it_. Therefore,
while Servants like Iskander or Gilgamesh who are copies with their original
still at the Throne of Heroes, Altria is always herself. This is why she can
remember the events between wars when normally even if a heroic spirit is
summoned again they won't remember any other wars they were in.

* * *

Now, let us move on to Heroic Spirit EMIYA, who is a Counter Guardian. Before
I begin, I should point out Altria is not a Counter Guardian. [Counter
Guardians](http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Counter_Guardian) are a special
group within Heroic Spirits who made a contract with
[Alaya](http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Alaya) and as such they are
incorporated as part of humanity’s Counter Force summoned whenever a factor in
the extinction of mankind is detected.

Regarding EMIYA's summoning, he is summoned from another reality which is
entirely possible for the Holy Grail. One of the key things in the Nasuverse
is that there are alternate timelines which are all still Canon because of the
[Second Magic](http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Magic) which is the
Operation of Parallel Worlds. The 5th Magic's Domain is unknown but it's
abilities are related to Time Travel. However, Touko Aozaki claims there
should be more to it because time travel is also governed by the Second Magic.
Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg who wields the 2nd Magic was actually present when
the Holy Grail System was first created, so being able to get Heroes and the
such from other times and realities would then be possible if it incorporated
principles of the 2nd Magic (which I would do in order to crystallizes a
Servant's feats in the from of the Nobel Phantasm).

Now in EMIYA's timeline, the 5th Holy Grail war was a disaster:

> In Heaven's Feel route in the visual novel, Archer recognized Sakura's
> Shadow and how it was attributed to Angra Mainyu. Whether it acted during
> his 5th Holy Grail War is unknown but it is clear that Angra Mainyu and the
> Greater Holy Grail was not destroyed/shut down before a major disaster
> occurred.

If EMIYA came from the same reality that Fate/Stay Night was in, then he would
have known that he would have not been able to kill himself and by killing
himself he may have caused more destruction. Practically, Fate/Stay Night
occurs in a separate timeline/reality to the one EMIYA existed and the Grail
summoned him because of Rin's Pendent which he still kept. So if EMIYA's
strength comes from how popular his legend is, then it will be unaffected
because his Legend is from a separate reality which will still be known.

> Also Rin is shown to be able to draw Mana from other realities in Heaven's
> Feel by using an implantation of the 2nd Magic

* * *

Now I haven't read all too much into Iskander so I can't vouch for the
difference with his legend. However, this could be explained because the Holy
Grail System is damaged. Rather that rehashing what caused it because it could
be spoilers, you can read the 3rd and 4th Paragraphs
[here](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/7433/1587) to read up on the
discrepancies with the Servant Summons or look up on the wiki on how the
system was originally created. However, since Mordred's legend is unaltered in
Fate/Apocrypha, and in that timeline the Einzbern's summoned Ruler rather than
Avenger, we can safely say that Altria wasn't altered when being summoned.


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The original author Nasu Kinoko mentioned that having a female protagonist
with a male Servant wouldn't be very interesting. The male version (mistakenly
romanized as "Saver" [セーバー] in Character Material, as opposed to "Saber"
[セイバー]) from his original draft depicted him as being cocky and arrogant,
still having the same sense of duty of the female Saber.

When you think about it, Nasu uses the gender bender plot device in an
interesting way by making [(female) Saber, aka
Altria,](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ZDMn3.jpg) out as a character that's not
influenced by preconceived notions of the mythologies behind her character.

When you break everything down, Servants and their Noble Phantasms are a
little more than "historical figures" and "magical artifacts," which make them
out to be incarnate legends. These so-called "legends" are seen as a whole by
everyone. So there exists certain exaggerations that probably never happened
to the figures themselves that get seen when they are summoned as Servants.
Some notable examples from _Fate/Stay Night_ are:

  1. Heracles' (abnormal) size
  2. Gilgamesh's blonde hair
  3. Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon possessing of all the Noble Phantasms in history (anachronistic, the regions and times don't line up appropriately)
  4. Heracles' twelve lives (this is more or less a reworking of the [12 labors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles#Labours_of_Heracles))
  5. Assassin's very existence (note that this version of Sasaki Kojirou [summoned by Caster] never actually existed)

The Grail isn't as omnipotent as many believe. It's rather incomplete and
merely makes the soul and puts it into raw energy. How the Grail gathers the
information and how the Third Magic and it tie everything together is not
explicitly mentioned. It's possible that being incomplete, the Grail gathers
the soul and then creates the body and abilities from contemporary knowledge
of the time of the war. Assassin, though never having actually existed (he
himself even admits this), is realized by the Grail. So it's possible for the
Grail to create a soul and body from a fictitious literature/accounts.

The story attempts to provide unique plot with unique scenarios, all while
drawing from familiar mythos. It's possible that all these changes were a plot
device or a creative license by the author to keep this interesting.


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Since no one seems to have touched on the King of Conquerors: they explained
that in the book shop, that the wording of his legacy was wrong and he was
always that huge, just the throne that has been known to depict him as small
was even more massive than he is now. Similarly, you should just give lean for
creative differences. Alexander was actually known in life to be clean-shaven,
pale and dark haired, nothing like the Fate/Zero depiction.


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## Rules are made to be broken

This is the mantra to always keep in mind when engaging the Fate series.

By default—the "rule"—servants are summoned with their body as in their prime
(physical prime normally, though servants renowned for more mental deeds would
be in their mental prime, which could be quite a good deal older). Except when
they aren't.

[Leonard Da Vinci](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci)
could be summoned in the appearance of the Mona Lisa, both because that is the
mental image people most often immediately associate with Da Vinci (even
though they know they're distinct people), and because Da Vinci himself
_wanted_ to.

[Penthesilea](https://www.gamepress.gg/grandorder/servant/berserker-el-dorado)
may have died so incensed by Achilles seeing her as a woman rather than a
warrior even on the battlefield that she intentionally manifests as a child
version of herself, hoping to make it impossible to suffer such an indignity
again.

[Napoleon can be summoned as a tall, manly
bro](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Napol%C3%A9on) if he is summoned
more for the concepts he represents (achieving the impossible, responding to
the wishes of the people, etc.) than anything else.

So the rule can be subverted by legends and history providing many
alternatives for what their appearance and prime are, as well as the very will
of the spirit itself. The spirits are enticed there with the promise of a wish
on the grail, but the spirit ultimately influences how they manifest in order
to best pursue their goal (whether it's the wish on the grail, or simply a
chance to fight honorably against other heroes, or whatever else).

## Heroes are not (always) one-dimensional

Any servant is just a distilled interpretation of the sum total of their
history and legends. The servant Classes are just limited vessels the spirit
is shoehorned into.

While Hercules may have legends about his archery skills (including arrows
dipped in Hydra blood/poison), when summoned as a Berserker the archery
aspects do/can get filtered out as irrelevant. And Cu Chulainn may have some
limited rune capabilities as a lancer, but their full capacity is drawn out
only if he is summoned as a
[Caster](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Caster_\(Fate/Grand_Order_-
_C%C3%BA_Chulainn\)).

As the last example points out, the form and nature of a servant is also
influenced by the class they are summoned into, which is in turn related to
the summoner. With no catalyst, the grail attempts (another rule, here) to
summon a hero that is similar to its summoner, in order to assist their
cooperation. With a catalyst, it attempts to pick a version of the hero that
is, again, similar to its summoner, though this may be harder to achieve.

The latter is the case with the Saber and her summoner from
[Fate/Zero](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate/Zero). The summoner would have
infinitely preferred an Assassin, as that suited his personality and style
better, but his catalyst pretty much forced a Saber that was intensely
dedicated to open and honorable combat.

Gilles de Rais might also be a [soldier, as when he served Jeanne
d'Arc](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais_\(Saber\)) or [a
horrifying occultist](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais).
His history and legends include both tales of a competent solider and
strategist, as well as that of a child-sacrificing occultist driven mad by
Jeanne's death. Which one you get depends on the situation and the summoner
(if any).

## History can be inaccurate or ambiguous

When a gender swap (from our perspective) happens with a character, a common
explanation is that the historical record simply got it wrong. Francis Drake
is a guy, right? [Nope, she's actually a beautiful woman with giant bazongas;
we just remember it
wrong](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Francis_Drake). Other heroes may
have ambiguous gender (and/or sexuality) in their histories, which may allow
them to be summoned in a seeming gender-swap. Just try to figure out what
[Astolfo](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Astolfo) or [Chevalier
d'Eon](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Chevalier_d%27Eon) are without
cheating.

As women frequently occupied a notably inferior position in the social order
for much of history throughout much of the world, this creates a strong
incentive for ambitious and adventurous women to mask themselves as men in
order to realize their goals and dreams.
[Assassins](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Assassin_\(Fate/Grand_Order_-
_Jing_Ke\)) may have benefited from a certain amount of gender fluidity, as
being able to pass for men or women would make it easier to slip through
vulnerabilities to reach their targets. [Even some historical generals and
warriors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uesugi_Kenshin) have records drawing
into question their gender. Did they never have children or much interest in
women because they just weren't that sexual, and were singularly focused on
their duties? Or perhaps they were actually a woman?

In the case of King Arthur (the Fate version of which was originally known as
Artoria, but has more recently been changed to be named Altria), in the FSN
story/explanation her true identity was masked and known only to a few. She
was kept at a distance or in a heavily masking helm when visible to the
public. Other public appearances were often done by Gawain or another Knight-
in-the-know, borrowing Excalibur if necessary to really sell it. The average
citizen would have few to no opportunities to see the King anyway. And in this
setting Arthur is noted (and at times criticized) for being an extremely
distant, removed, and unemotional ruler: this was the behavior of the ideal
King that she envisioned. The King's aging was also stopped the moment she
pulled out the sword in the stone, permanently leaving her as an
androgynous/tomboyish 14 year old (I think materials may now be saying 16,
instead).

King Arthur herself was so dedicated to maintaining the deception and being
the ideal King that she developed body image issues, supposing herself to be
muscled and un-woman like when the protagonist actually succeeds in developing
a romantic connection, despite her obviously waif-like appearance and
porcelain skin. She had the heart of the dragon and superhuman strength as a
result, which may have encouraged herself to see herself this way. And the
conflicts caused by her true gender motivates many other story points in
Arthurian legend: why there is a faction of rebels that Mordred can join (not
everyone likes a cold and distant king, but she must be so to maintain the
ruse, or so she thinks), why Mordred even wants to rebel, why Guinevere and
Lancelot hook up (Guinevere was not a lesbian or bisexual, and she had needs;
Arthur intentionally overlooks their relationship, until it becomes public
knowledge, out of guilt for how difficult their marriage was for Guinevere,
and punishes Lancelot only out of a sense of Kingly necessity rather than any
actual feelings of betrayal), etc.

Iskandar also falls into this, as Iskandar himself explains the basis for
supposing he was short is because he was compared to even more gigantic
figures. In particular he says the historical accounts say he was dwarfed by
the throne of Darius because Darius himself was a giant among men, who truly
did make the beefy Iskandar look short and puny in comparison.

## It's a multiverse (and then some)

The Fate universe, or more broadly the Nasuverse, is a multiverse setting in
rather the most expansive sense. Multiple universes, alternative histories,
time travel shenanigans, etc. are all available. [One story in the
Nasuverse](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Tsukihime) [may be incompatible
with others](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Fate/stay_night) for any number
of reasons; a character in one may simply not exist in the other. In
particular, every single storyline that occurs in a game like Fate/Stay
night—including bad endings, not just the normal/true endings—are canonically
true and all happened, just across a variety of timelines/worlds.

Moreover, the Throne of Heroes, where the Heroic spirits reside and are
summoned from, sits outside of time and the world, and has access to all of
these alternative timelines etc. So heroes have a multitude of possibilities
available to them, not all of which need to have been realized within the
world and timeline their spirit is summoned into.

The prototypical example is [a certain FSN
servant](https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Archer_\(Fate/stay_night\)) who
comes from the future of a timeline that is not covered by any of the routes
or endings of the FSN game itself (and has never been fully detailed).

## Out of universe rationales

The out of universe rationale for gender swaps and appearance changes is the
same one as usual: making money. It was determined that a Female main
character with a Male Servant wouldn't sell as well as a Male main character
with a Female Servant. So once that was settled on the easiest thing to do was
to just swap the genders, and so bam, female King Arthur is born. Other
characters had their appearances changed to fit modern perceptions of what an
archetype should look like. The vainglorious, obscenely wealthy, painfully
arrogant king should be more of a pretty-boy, with golden hair to reflect his
wealth (gold); not the rough-and-tumble manly warrior that Gilgamesh perhaps
ought to have really looked like. The ultimately in manly, world-conquering,
modern bro-dom should be huge and muscled and gruff, his intrinsically
intimidating physique contrasted with how amiable and bro-like he behaves; not
the rather more effeminate physique that Alexander the Great should have had.


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