

I have a problem with the manga Bleach. When Ichigo became shinigami for the
first time, it was said that his soul cutter is so big because of his
spiritual powers, which means that your soul cutter is a reflection of that.
But when they go to soul society it is clearly hinted that the shinigamis
there choose their soul cutters and that the soul cutters they have have
existed for generations before them. Can someone help explain this to me?


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question
bleach
Has Ichigo's soul cutter existed before him?


**This answer can only be explained with a big spoiler. Those who hasn't read
Bleach till the latest chapter and wish not to be spoiled might better avoid
reading this altogether.**

Note: the way I understand it, there are 3 questions you asked.

  1. The correlation between spiritual powers and Zanpakutou's size.
  2. Zanpakutou existed even before the Shinigami.
  3. Did Ichigo's Zanpakutou existed before him.

## Answer to Question 1

A Shinigami's Zanpakutou's (soul cutter in English dub) size reflects the
Shinigami's spiritual powers. The more spiritual power it unleashed, the
bigger it becomes. This is generally true.

**Example 1**

Renji's Zanpakutou's [normal
shape](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ep16RenjiStandsOver.png) is a normal
Katana. When the released into Shikai form
([Zabimaru](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Zabimaru.png)), it unleash more
spiritual power and its shape got bigger. It gets even bigger when Renji is in
Bankai state ([Hihio
Zabimaru](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ep52Hihi%C5%8DZabimaru.png)) and
even his body is covered by his power in form of the furry cloak.

**Example 2**

Zaraki Kenpachi's Zanpakutou's [normal
form](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:36Kenpachi_unsheathes.png) is a long
katana with chipped blade. When released into
[shikai](http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bleach/images/d/dc/577Nozarashi.png/revision/latest?cb=20140417055411&path-
prefix=en), his Zanpakutou changed form into a chopping axe shape.

**Example 3**

Madarame Ikkaku's Zanpakutou's [normal
form](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ikkaku_237-122.jpg) is a normal
katana. It's shikai form
([Houzukimaru](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ikkaku_releases_shikai.jpg))
is a spear, it's bankai form ([Ryuumon
Houzukimaru](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ikkaku_Bankai.jpg)) is a huge
blades linked with chain.

**Example 4**

Soi Fon's Zanpakutou is a [short
katana](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Soifon_Yoruichi_battle_2.jpg).
[Shikai form](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Suzumebachi.jpg) changed it
into a smaller shape, but it's
[bankai](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/File:Soifonbankai.jpg) changed it into a
big rocket launcher like thing. Notice how its shikai form is smaller that its
normal form, unlike the previous two examples, which is why I said that
Zanpakutou's size reflects the spiritual power is generall true. Also, so far
she has never been see using her Zanpakutou in its normal, unreleased state.

Another exception to this is Kurosaki Ichigo. Kurosaki Ichigo's Zanpakutou is
always in its shikai form. But its bankai form actually made the blade
smaller, and denser, unlike bankai in general, which was noted by Kuchiki
Byakuya during their fight. Byakuya also said that he don't believe that such
a small sword (compared to Ichigo's shikai and bankai in general) can be his
bankai.

**Edit:** As mentioned by Ryan and Memor-X, Zanpakutou's size can be
controlled. This was mentioned by Kurosaki Isshin to Grand Fisher, that if
Zanpakutou's size is not controlled, those with huge Spiritual Power like the
Captains, would literally have skyscrapers on their hands.

## Answer to Question 2

Normally, a shinigami is given an Asauchi, a blank Zanpakutou created by the
creator of Asauchi, [Ouetsu
Nimaiya](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/%C5%8Cetsu_Nimaiya). This blank
Zanpakutou will develop along with its wielder and make itself unique. This is
how Shinigami normally got their Zanpakutou. Therefore, since all Zanpakutou
(with the exception of Zangetsu) was an Asauchi, it can be said that it
existed generations before the current generation of Shinigami).

## Answer to Question 3

Kurosaki Ichigo's Zanpakutou, Zangetsu, is special since Ichigo is a son of
Shinigami and Quincy. His father, Kurosaki Isshin is a Shinigami and his
mother was a Quincy. What he used to fight until his fight with Aizen Sousuke
where he lost his "Shinigami" powers due to the use of Final Getsuga Tenshou,
was later revealed to be his Quincy powers. It was confirmed by Zangetsu (old
man form) himself. Zangetsu also said that the reason his figure is so similar
to that of Ywach was because Ichigo also has a Quincy blood in him. His power
is in his blood, thus it can be said that his Zanpakutou existed from the very
moment he was born.


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answer


This is quite complicated to be fair, and the explanation has many spoilers...

So Ichigo's powers come from a combination of

> his mother, a Quincy, so indirectly from Yhwach, and from his father, a
> Shinigami.

He originally got this large Zanpakuto from Rukia.

[![Ichigos first
sword](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jBym5.jpg)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jBym5.jpg)

This was Rukia's power, with the sword made large by his own enormous Reiatsu.
He lost this power after Byakuya cut his chain link and soul sleep. Urahara
trained Ichigo, and he became a Shinigami with his classic Zanpakuto.

Lots of stuff and things happen, then he loses this power when

> he uses the final Getsuga Tenshou to 'defeat' Aizen.

He gets a real Shinigami power back when a few captains come and give it to
him. Later on, he's fighting against Jugram Haschwalth who

> cuts his Zanpakuto in two, forcing Ichigo to have to go to the Soul Palace
> to get it reforged, where he has to go through the process all Shinigami do
> to get a new Zanpakuto, by fighting a Asauchi. After this, he speaks with
> Hollow Ichigo in his soul, who reveals he is Zangetsu, and the original
> Zangetsu was his Quincy powers, and Zangetsu (Hollow Ichigo) is his true
> Zanpakuto. He then creates his current two sword Zanpakuto when he grabs the
> Asauchi.

So yes, Ichigo's current Zanpakuto has existed before him, like all other
Shinigami, and was fully created when he imprinted his power onto it.

And now in the most recent manga issue, we finally see

> Ichigo's true final form (maybe... up till now at least!) when Zangetsu has
> brought out his Hollow powers and Ichigo has the horn on the side of his
> face:

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/omXhm.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/omXhm.png)

I think... lol it's damn complicated, I probably missed something or made a
mistake...


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To specifically answer the question. There are 2 parts.

The Asauchi and the Zanpaktou spirit.
[reference](http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Zanpakut%C5%8D)

Asauchi are made by Ōetsu Nimaiya and given to Shinigami. In that effect, the
sword does exist before the shinigami. It is this base form that can change
size to refelct the spiritual pressure of the wielder. Ichigo was the example,
his power was so great that when he took Rukia's Asauchi, it grew to that
large size he initially had. In the Arrancar arc, Isshin Kurosaki is revealed
to be a Shinigami, and he says the facts. Taken from the Refernce

> No matter what form (or size) a Zanpakutō takes, it is always virtually
> effortless for its owner to wield because it is a part of its owner's soul.
> Shinigami captains all consciously keep their Zanpakutō in a manageable
> size, or else they would be holding Zanpakutō the size of skyscrapers, so
> one cannot judge the strength of one's opponent solely by the size of their
> Zanpakutō

So normal shinigami and evne seated officers do not have a massive amount of
power and therefor their swords are of normal sizes. Once you reach high
ranked officers and capitains, then the sizes are naturally so massive that
they must control and contain it, Else it would be the size of a skyscraper.

The Shikai and bankai come from the Zanpaktou spirit. They in effect are a
part of the Shinigami's soul, so they can not exist before the Shinigami. It
is throuhg time and pouring their power into an asauchi that it turns into a
complete zanpaktou and obtains Shikai and Bankai forms. Realistically, these
guys can live separately from their owner Shinigami if forcefully taken from
their souls, but will never do so themselves. It is however unknown what
happens to the Asauchi at this point, and whether it can ever revert back to
its regular form for another Shinigami or not is unclear. what is clear
however is that the Shikai and Bankai forms are of Set sizes. No matter how
much power the capitains grew in, their Shikai and Bankai did not change size.
Mayuri Kurotsuchi even modified his bankai and could change its size though
that, as well as when new forms of the Shikai and Bankai are revealed, but at
no time could The shinigami ever change its actual size at will.

Ichigo himself is a special case, because of his blood and situation. In any
case, his Zanpaktou and other powers did not exist before him. He however only
had an Asauchi when he borrowed it from Rukia. He never used Shikai in that
form, but we know the Asauchi can be used by anyone, which is what ichigo did.
Once he reawakend his powers with Urahara, he no longer had an Asauchi and his
zanpaktou itself formed without it, Though because it was not from an Asauchi,
how much of a zanpaktou it really was after that is unknown.


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