50769


Legendary Super Saiyan requires one to have consciousness while maintaining
the form. What we have seen so far (canon and non-canon) was the berserk
state, where the user is simply out of control.

As we know in order to attain Super Saiyan 4 one needs to have consciousness
during the Golden Great Ape state. The Great Ape forms have been known for all
Saiyans to be a berserk state that can only be triggered when specific
conditions have been met. The user is "rewarded" with tremendous power, but no
control. This all is extremely similar to Legendary Super Saiyan Berserk. Once
the user gets consciousness in the state he/she can then evolve into the next
stage, which would be Super Saiyan 4 (for Golden Great Ape) or Legendary Super
Saiyan (for Legendary Super Saiyan Berserk).

Since both forms (LSSJ and SSJ4) require the same amount of consciousness and
mental fortitude, does this mean that they are basically the same? I found it
extremely difficult to find some actual information on the progress of the two
being unlocked so therefor this conclusion is purely theoretical.

Assuming they are, all Saiyans are able to become a Super Saiyan 4 with enough
training, consciousness etc. Are all Saiyans also able to become a Legendary
Super Saiyan or is it purely genetic? From what I've seen so far, the only
distinctive features it has, is emitting enormous amounts of ki. We have seen
that Saiyans were leaking ki all over the place, so in that sense it should be
possible for all Saiyans eventually, or am I completely wrong?

Sources: [mainly dragonball
wikia](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page), Reddit, the series from
which DBGT for knowledge about SSJ4, DBZ+DBS for knowledge about LSSJ and DBS
for Whis explaining loads of things.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-02-07T21:11:13.027
50760
2019-02-08T04:11:08.530
2019-02-07T21:32:34.433
3028
31492
question
dragon-ball-series dragon-ball-super dragon-ball-z
Can all Saiyans become a Legendary Super Saiyan?


You addressed more than one point:

**SSJ4 and LSSJ are basically the same?**

  * They've been created by different authors which I doubt they had the same intentions
  * One requires a tail and the other does not
  * One was only achieved by one saiyan per universe, the other wasnt achieved by only one

I think there are enough reasons to think they were never intended to be
similar. May be in the future Akira Toriyama will borrow ideas from the SSJ4
for the canon universe just as he did with other ideas but I don think they
are the same

**Are all Saiyans also able to become a Legendary Super Saiyan or is it purely
genetic?**

This is what I personally think. Since the state is "legendary" and since the
original super saiyan was also "legendary" in some sense (Vegeta mentioned the
regular super saiyan was the legendary super saiyan in the series, later it
was retcon into the legendary super saiyan is the green hair type) they only
can be achieved by some saiyans.

Akira Toriyama recently mentioned in an interview that you require an amount
of "S-cells" to turn into regular (yellow) super saiyan, so no any saiyan
could get it. Since Broly also has the yellow type super saiyan
transformation, and the green type seems to be an upgrade of the yellow type,
I think they only can be achieved by some saiyans. (this would mean if you
can't get the yellow type, you wont get the green type either). And personally
(this is my personal belief) I think they hinted in the Dragon Ball Super
movie Broly with the green hair Goku and Vegeta got for a couple of seconds,
that they also can achieve and might be close to get the legendary super
saiyan transformation (but not any saiyan)

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6Hnhh.jpg)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6Hnhh.jpg)

But so far no official or canon answer has been given on the matter. We can
only infer the authors intentions through what they showed in the anime, manga
and what they say in interviews, twitter, etc.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-02-07T21:48:47.050
50761
2019-02-07T22:05:48.107
2019-02-07T22:05:48.107
3028
3028
50760
answer


I believe the transformation is purely genetic

Firstly, there is no explicit reference in the Canon - Series to Broly's form
being referred to as the _Legendary Super Saiyan_. Broly's transformation is
referred to as _Full Power Super Saiyan_ and when Kale uses the similar
transformation, Vegeta states that it might be _The Saiyan's True Form_ ,
which you can see [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJlny-KHcDw).

With reference to your point stating that we have seen these transforms only
in their Berserker state, that would be incorrect. This is because we see Kale
control her form during her second fight against SSJG Goku alongside SSJ2
Caulifla.

Although I cannot state an explicit reason why a regular Saiyan cannot attain
this form as there haven't been any official statement released with regard to
this, I suppose I could make a reasonable argument indicating why this
transformation is genetic and has not something every Saiyan can attain.

  * If we first look at the way Kale attained the transformation. She had no notion as to what a Super Saiyan was. Her anger out of jealousy resulted in her transforming to this level of power which shocked Caulifla and Cabba. Before she transformed. So it clearly doesn't require greater power as Caulifla was stated that be much stronger than her, it doesn't require any specific training as again, Kale was indicated to be inferior to Caulifla in every single way. The only unique way in her transformation compared to Caulifla's, is that she was angry. However, Goku, Vegeta, Cabba & Future Trunks transformed into the regular Super Saiyan forms out of anger. And clearly, their level of angry was much greater than that of Kales. Hence, based on that precendent, the only reason we can argue why Kale attained the form is because of her genetics.
  * While Broly in his Super Saiyan form had yellow hair, Kale in her "Regular" Super Saiyan form had yellow hair with a tinge of green. The form wasn't indicated to be superior to a regular Super Saiyan and it was even referred to as a normal Super Saiyan( As Champa states he couldn't understand why 2 Super Saiyans were struggling against Goku). Again the only explanation for this points to genetics.
  * Now let us examine the form. Is the form the strongest possible Saiyan transformation? No. While Broly was strong, it wasn't the form that made him strong. He was holding his own against SSJB Goku in his wrath form which more or less was like a powered up Base form(With the power of the Great Ape). Hence, the form made him several times stronger. Just like his Super Saiyan was stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Kale, on the other hand, was much weaker than Broly in her base which is why her iteration of the form was much weaker than SSJB Goku.
  * Continuing with my point above, this establishes the fact that there is no reason from a Plot perspective why Goku or Vegeta should master this transformation. The Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue transformations are still Superior. Goku and Vegeta's training with Whis have resulted from them in going towards the route of Ki Control(Which involves hiding and suppressing your level of energy), unlike this form which is the complete opposite. 
  * From an aesthetic standpoint, if you look at Broly's & Kale's ki, aura, energy and all their attacks, they all seem to share the same green color as that of the form. Vegeta and Goku's signature attacks would break that pattern if they were to ever tap into the transformation
  * Now let us look at fusions. Fusions tends to share the genetic characteristics of both the combined fighters. When Kefla transformed into SSJ1 and SSJ2, she retained the green hair in both those forms, which could only mean one obvious thing. The trait made its way from Kale's genetic makeup. If it was a unique form, it would've been acknowledged as one, however, it wasn't.
  * Finally, Adding on to my first point, the one common trait that Broly and Kale share is that the two of them had absolutely very little knowledge with regard to transformations and the main trigger in case of the two was just anger. We have seen all the Saiyans display anger and reached powered up states like Vegeta did against Beerus, Goku against Goku Black & Zamasu and attain transformations like the SSJ and SSJ2. At the same time, we have also seen Trunks attain a completely new unique transformation which made him stronger than Kale. That indicates the form isn't the peak or the maximum level of a Super Saiyan. It is only a unique level of power with unique aesthetics which only Broly and Kale can use.

With reference to the movie, I do understand Vegeta's hair turns Green and
Goku's ki turns Green as well. However, I strongly feel this was done to
create some form of contrast between the Saiyans and Broly for fans who are
new to the franchise and have less knowledge about the transformations. Or, it
could be solely an artistic choice. The reason I strongly feel the same is
because, the green hair Vegeta displayed was a transition between Super Saiyan
and Super Saiyan God. Vegeta has **Never** displayed that form a single time
in the series and to be fair, it wasn't even indicated as an explicit
transformation as it seemed more like a transition shot between SSJ and SSJG.
Another interesting theory which some people seem to think is that it was a
way to indicate to the fans, the different levels of power of the Super Saiyan
forms(The Full Power Super Saiyan(LSSJ) form is > than the Super Saiyan while
inferior to the Super Saiyan God). Then again, this is just a theory.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-02-08T04:11:08.530
50769
2019-02-08T04:11:08.530
31104
50760
answer