

Early in the series when Charmander evolves to Charmeleon, almost right away
it begins to disobey Ash and refuse to listen to him. this continued to
Charizard who would lounge around and blast Ash with a fire breath until he
was frozen in ice during Ash's travels though the Orange Islands and Ash
stayed up all night trying to melt the ice.

from what i remember Charmander willingly went with Ash when it's trainer
abandoned it and he was about to die from the rain. if i followed the game
logic i could assume that it was because Charmander's Level went too high in
comparison to what badges Ash had however....

  * there was no signs of disobedience until after the evolution
  * the 8th badge of any region allows full control no matter the level however Charizard was still disobedient even after Ash got Kanto's Earth Badge. 
    * not to mention that the level control ability of another regions badges would be made obsolete for someone like Ash who gets badges from other areas

So what caused Charmeleon to become so disobedient to Ash?


CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-12T10:43:52.617
35758
2021-12-18T00:17:55.847
1587
question
pokemon
What caused Charmeleon to become so disobedient to Ash?


As explained in the anime episode 44, Charmeleon became disobedient to Ash
because he was too low leveled (the old lady in that episode told Ash this
herself). At the time, he didn't have all the gym badges, only a few.

In episode 46, Charmeleon evolved but still doesn't listen to Ash because
Charizard is now even higher leveled. At the last gym where it was Charizard
vs Magmar, Charizard found Magmar to be a worthy opponent and that's when
Charizard listened to Ash but stops listening to him afterward.

Then they went to the Charizard mountain where Ash left Charizard there to
train and that's the story of Charizard.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2016-08-12T11:16:04.513
35762
2021-08-30T03:21:49.640
2021-08-30T03:21:49.640
2516
23346
35758
answer


I found this interesting and helpful tidbit of info from [an old PokeCommunity
forum thread](http://www.pokecommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-73298.html).
It's not conclusive, but it is explanatory:

> I think of it as like Charmeleon was like a teenager. It had paid attention
> to Ash when it was young and naive, because it Ash showed it caring and
> love. However, when it got older, and learned more, it became cocky and saw
> Ash for what he was-- a rookie trainer that was still learning many of the
> basics. I think Charmeleon felt as if he didn't have any respect for Ash.
> When he started listening to Ash in the Orange Islands, it was after he saw
> how dedicated and serious Ash could be, even to something that was
> repeatedly rude and menacing to him. I think that when Charizard saw Ash
> doing that, he began to have some respect and admiration for the boy.
>
> Charizard may have been a 'plot device' to show pokemon that disobey, but it
> was important because it showed that not even Ash could 'wow' every pokemon
> with a couple days of friendship. It also was an indication of Ash maturing.

And here's another interesting viewpoint from [an old question on
Quora](https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-Charmeleon-and-Charizard-obey-Ash-in-
Pok%C3%A9mon-Indigo-League):

> Since Charmander was once rejected as weak he had gained an inferiority
> complex. He was always trying to prove himself. When he evolve into
> Charmeleon, he lost his fear and considering itself as proud. He gained
> self-pride and was considering itself as strong pokemon. Thus he was
> arrogant, and didn't listened Ash's orders. Later it evolved into a
> Charizard to prove its strength in front of a Aerodactyl. Charizard retained
> his disobedience to Ash as of Charmeleon. However, when Ash saved him after
> being frozen by Tad's Poliwrath's Ice Beam, Charizard's loyalty to Ash
> returned in full force; the best part of Charmander's pre-evolved
> personality was back. So the arrogance and disobedience that Charizard (or
> Charmeleon) was beacause he was boastful of his immense power.


CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-12T11:16:42.090
35763
2016-08-12T11:16:42.090
26439
35758
answer


Charmander was Damien's Pokemon first. Ash didn't catch a wild Charmander.
True, Charmander was abandoned by Damien, but it was still loyal to him.

Also, Ash didn't earn all of his badges fair and square. He got some because
he defended gyms from Team Rocket. The anime badges don't make Pokemon obey,
unlike the games.


CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-09-27T20:24:04.870
42510
2017-09-27T20:24:04.870
35851
35758
answer


In the Pokemon game Red and FireRed, when the player is asked to choose his
pokemon, Prof. Oak saying about Charmander: you should raise him patiently.

![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/HMuET.png)

In other words, the game states it's not easy to raise Charmander and needs a
lot of patience to raise it well (of course that in the game mechanics, it's
less effective than in the anime).

In the anime, Ash's Charmander is found abandoned by Damien, saying that "but
that puny thing was so weak it couldn't even beat the weakest opponent." Brock
immediately says "Charmander may be weak against water Pokemon, but if their
trainers work hard they can be strong." points to the words of Prof. Oak in
the game.

So since Charmander was abandoned, it may cause a terrific change in his
attitude with humans at the evolution with the next material, since not raised
properly from the beginning.

And the reason for that, since the anime introduces a different approach to
evolution, as in Advanced Challenge season ep26 "Exploud And Clear", a boy
named Guy has a Loudred, and once evolved to Exploud, his entire behavior
changed by not taking orders from Guy. When Guy asked the gang about the
evolution changing personality, Brock tells him confidently "Absolutely, when
a pokemon evolves, it goes through a lot of changes. You'll not only notice a
personality change but also in its abilities too."

![](https://i.stack.imgur.com/G4kIo.png)

Strange enough, in the first season when Ash's Charmander evolved, Brock
didn't say that, but probably his claiming is directly from Charmeleon
behavior changes.

In that episode, eventually, Guy is protecting Exploud from Team Rocket, and
then gain his Exploud trust again, with a less than half episode, Ash's
Charmeleon and Charizard though, had been a lot of time together from the half
of Indigo League through the Orange Islands, taking much more time than Guy
and his Exploud, probably not only because Charmeleon's fast evolution but
because of the above, making himself less trust in Ash's orders 'til see
himself as equal with him.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-01-16T16:42:06.943
56486
2021-08-30T03:21:52.797
2021-08-30T03:21:52.797
2516
51620
35758
answer


In the episode "The Problem With Paras", Ash is trying to help Cassandra train
up her weak Paras. When Charmeleon was called out, and Ash told it to go easy
on Paras. Charmeleon didn't want to be weak, and that's when it stopped
listening to Ash. It got even worse as it evolved into a Charizard.

Finally, in the Orange Islands, Ash helped thaw it out. While everyone was
asleep, only Ash stayed up to warm up Charizard. Charizard seeing how much Ash
cared for it, even it always disrespected him, finally decided to listen to
him.

The writers obviously made Charmeleon disobedient, to show how training
pokemon isn't easy.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-05-08T21:28:36.510
57489
2021-08-30T03:21:47.863
2021-08-30T03:21:47.863
2516
53222
35758
answer


You have to look at this from a certain point of view, especially when taking
the badges and their obedience into account.

The first thing to note is to look at badges that come with an obedience
effect, the Cascade, Rainbow, Marsh, and Earth Badges, none of them were won
under their rightful means.

  * Misty's sisters were just giving badges away and when Ash actually battled Misty for it, the battle didn't finish but Ash got the badge for blowing up Team Rocket.

  * Then the Marsh Badge (which came before Rainbow in the anime), Ash was defeated by the gym leader fair and square and in his 3rd attempt, the battle was more of a forfeit due to Kadabra laughing with Sabrina so that wasn't a victory that showed prowess as a trainer.

  * Then the Rainbow badge, that battle also did not finish as Team Rocket stopped that battle mid-way and then Ash goes into the flaming gym and saves Gloom and thus receives the badge so again Ash didn't defeat the gym leader and earn it.

  * Then the Earth badge, Ash didn't even battle the true gym leader, he battled Team Rocket who were more of stand-ins than the actual leaders. Yeah, they used some of Giovanni's pokemon but they were not actual leaders and thus Ash didn't even win the Earth badge under its rightful means.

This can show that the badges go beyond just receiving them. Like a leader can
just say "here you go" and drop it in your pocket, that doesn't mean you
showed your ability as a trainer.

I believe Ash had one shot to show Charmeleon he was capable in the episode
"Problem With Paris". Ash sends out Charmeleon and thinks of Charmeleon's
mindset, he's thinking "I'm evolved, I'm powerful, let's do this" he even
looks ready to battle. But what's the first thing Ash tells him? "Go east on
it" that was probably it. ANY chance Ash had at controlling Charmeleon was
gone right there. Charmeleon looks ready but once Ash tells it to lose, that's
when Charmeleon looks pissed and glares at Ash then goes on a rampage. Even
further in the episode, Ash shows no control, he just shows weakness and does
nothing to stop or control Charmeleon. Pikachu is the one who has to step in
and stop him.

The final thing to note is that Charmander had a previous owner, Damian so
technically it's a "traded" pokemon which have a higher rate of disobedience.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-30T02:41:47.577
65518
2021-08-30T03:21:58.907
2021-08-30T03:21:58.907
2516
62216
35758
answer


You've gotta remember, that in Generation 1, Bulbasaur, Charmander and
Squirtle were the Original Starter Pokémon. As such, when they evolve, they
can and will, become more stubborn and unwilling to listen, to instructions,
that their Trainer gives them.

Now, as far as Charmeleon and Charizard, are concerned, you have to remember,
that, as Charmander, he, originally, belonged to Damian, who left him out in
the rain, to die. Therefore, Ash's Charmander did suffer, from abandonment
issues and probably didn't, initially, trust Ash and, when he later evolved,
into Charmeleon and Charizard, he knew Ash was inexperienced, as a Trainer and
lack of Gym Badges and is, therefore, why he disobeyed him. Also, it's a
possibility, that, Charmander was a Traded Pokémon, which tend to be even more
stubborn, than Trainer Caught Pokémon. Pikachu, initially, didn't respect or
trust Ash, probably because it was his first day, as a Pokémon Trainer and Ash
didn't really know, what he was doing or getting himself involved in and
Pikachu nearly died, by a flock of Spearow, who Ash was willing to protect
Pikachu from, which is why he leapt into the air and used Thundershock. The
ONLY REASON, why Charizard FINALLY started listening to Ash, is because of
Team Rocket AND despite his lack of experience as a Trainer or Gym Badges, Ash
still had heart and cared for his Pokémon, as if they were family.


CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-12-18T00:05:51.583
66100
2021-12-18T00:17:55.847
2021-12-18T00:17:55.847
58446
58446
35758
answer