Fooling honest people, or honest people look foolish?


Clearly I'm still struggling with the use of `ばかを見る`, which I have [asked
about before](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/11097/119).

This sentence appears in a question in my JLPT textbook:

> 正直者{しょうじきもの}がばかをみない 社会{しゃかい}であるべきだ。

Based on the help in that other question, I think my understanding of the
sentence is close, but I'm not 100% sure.

Two ways I can translate this are, "It's desirable for a society to not fool
honest people," or, "It's desirable for a society to not have honest people
look foolish".

Is either of those right? Is it something else?




You're right that it follows the pattern from your previous question with the
idiomatic use of バカを見る. The speaker desires a society in which honest people
are not deceived or made to be fools.

I don't think that it's accurate to say that _society_ fools people,
necessarily, but rather this person wants a society _in which_ honest people
aren't made fools of. The implication here is of course that honest people
follow the rules while others may break them for personal gain, thus putting
those that follow the rules at a disadvantage. In this way you can say that
they are made to be fools, but not necessarily that they are "fooled" in the
sense of being tricked.

Given this, I think your second translation would be more accurate. However,
an even more accurate translation might avoid the more proverbial notion of an
honest person becoming the fool and saying more directly that an honest person
is at a disadvantage among liars and thieves, etc. (or find an equivalent
English expression)




You're right that it follows the pattern from your previous question with the
idiomatic use of バカを見る. The speaker desires a society in which honest people
are not deceived or made to be fools.

I don't think that it's accurate to say that _society_ fools people,
necessarily, but rather this person wants a society _in which_ honest people
aren't made fools of. The implication here is of course that honest people
follow the rules while others may break them for personal gain, thus putting
those that follow the rules at a disadvantage. In this way you can say that
they are made to be fools, but not necessarily that they are "fooled" in the
sense of being tricked.

Given this, I think your second translation would be more accurate. However,
an even more accurate translation might avoid the more proverbial notion of an
honest person becoming the fool and saying more directly that an honest person
is at a disadvantage among liars and thieves, etc. (or find an equivalent
English expression)

