using の with と,で, から, まで


[This page](http://www.shiro.jp.net/2013/10/tono-deno-kakrano-madenoeno-
learning.html) explains that a noun with と, で, から, まで that modifies another
noun must have の attached to them as in:

> 日本 **での** 研究はいかがでしたか。

But it lists this example

> 大学院 **で** 医学の研究をするつもりです。

Both with で. What is the difference between them? Are there other rules about
の and と, で, から, まで, etc.?




The difference is that での shows the relationship to a following noun, just as
the page says. 日本での研究 forms a single noun phrase ("research in Japan"), and
this noun phrase as a whole is marked as a topic with は.

In the other example, 大学院で isn't part of a noun phrase. Instead, it modifies
the following predicate, （医学の研究を）する ("do medical research").

So it's just as the web page says. If you see ～での, you should be figuring out
what noun it links to (研究), and if you see ～で, you should be figuring out what
verb (or other predicate) it links to (する).




The difference is that での shows the relationship to a following noun, just as
the page says. 日本での研究 forms a single noun phrase ("research in Japan"), and
this noun phrase as a whole is marked as a topic with は.

In the other example, 大学院で isn't part of a noun phrase. Instead, it modifies
the following predicate, （医学の研究を）する ("do medical research").

So it's just as the web page says. If you see ～での, you should be figuring out
what noun it links to (研究), and if you see ～で, you should be figuring out what
verb (or other predicate) it links to (する).

