Can a cathedral be referred to as a 寺?


I was listening to a song Disney's _Hunchback of Notre Dame_ in Japanese (the
intro, _The Bells of Notre Dame_ or `ノートルダムの鐘`), and I noticed that they
referred to the cathedral as a `「てら」`. I thought that was odd since as far as
I know `お寺` is used to refer to a (specifically) Buddhist temple and the Notre
Dame is a Catholic building.

The Wikipedia page on the [Notre
Dame](http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%8E%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88%E3%83%AB%E3%83%80%E3%83%A0%E5%A4%A7%E8%81%96%E5%A0%82_%28%E3%83%91%E3%83%AA%29)
refers to it as both a 大聖堂{たいせいどう}and a 寺院{じいん}. (Of course, the latter uses
the kanji `寺`, but it doesn't seem to me to carry the implication of a
specifically Buddhist temple, and at any rate does not share a reading with
it.)

Is there any precedence for calling a cathedral a `寺`, or was this used for a
certain effect (perhaps to make the imposing look of the building a little
more familiar to a Japanese audience...to be honest, it can be kind of scary
looking)? Is it possible it was used because it's a shorter word and fit into
the song better? I'd love to watch the movie entirely in Japanese to see if
they continued calling it such, but alas I don't have it.




Yes, a cathedral can be referred to as a 寺. Here's [Nogami Toyoichiro doing
just that](http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000963/card43101.html). Forgive
choppy translation, please:

>
> ノートル・ダームの大寺はローマ時代にはユピテルの神殿のあった位置で、イル・ド・ラ・シテが「パリの目」なら、ノートル・ダームはその「瞳」だといってもよい。ここに寺の建てられたのは四世紀の半ば過ぎで、初めは聖エティエンヌと呼ばれていた。それを聖母（ノートル・ダーム）に捧げる寺にしたのはいつ頃からかよくわからないが、ヴィクトル・ユーゴーに拠れば、シャールマーニュ帝が最初の礎石を置いたというから、そうすると八世紀の末か九世紀の初めであっただろう。
>
> The **大寺** of Notre Dame is located where the ancient Roman **神殿** to
> Jupiter was, and if the Île de la Cité is the "Eye of Paris", we can surely
> call Notre Dame the "Pupil". It was the latter half of the fourth century
> when the first **寺** was built here, which initially was called Saint-
> Etienne. It is not clear when that was made into a **寺** to the Holy Mother
> ("Notre Dame"), but, according to Victor Hugo, Charlemagne laid the first
> foundation stone, and so it must have been in the late eighth or early ninth
> century.

Nogami's chronology doesn't match up with the Wikipedia explanation, but as
you can see there is clearly precedent for using this sort of terminology for
Christian churches and even Notre Dame itself. I've seen 本山 used for people-
of-the-book religious buildings, and I've seen 教会 used to refer to "the
Church" (the organization) and 寺 for "church" (the building). And let's not
forget terms like
[南蛮寺](http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%97%E8%9B%AE%E5%AF%BA) ("Barbarian
temple") from the early Christian era in Japan...

However, as dainichi says, in _contemporary_ Japan (Nogami's piece apparently
dates from 1941) we would generally expect "church" to be translated 教会. This
is I think a reasonable observation. The reason for this is that Japanese
culture is becoming more familiarity with Christianity and other "world
religions," which means two interrelated things: (1) increasing awareness of
the distinction between them and Buddhism (i.e. they aren't just "corrupt
sects" of the same everything-except-Shinto "religion", they are a _different_
religion); (2) increasing specialization of and familiarity with vocabulary,
so that even non-Christians know that Christians call their place of worship a
教会 and believe it distinct from a 寺 (which is also "sharpening" as a concept
because of cultural self-consciousness).

So, why use 寺 in this translation if it is "possible but marked"? This is
something I cannot answer, although someone else might be able to. I can think
of several possible explanations, though, one or more of which might be true:

  * Timing. /tera/ is two morae shorter than /kyo:kai/. This might have been important.
  * Mood. In this story in particular, Notre Dame is not a modern, well-lit place of worship, but rather an ancient and foreboding place of worship. The translators may have felt that the implications of 教会 were too tied in with modernity and so on, while 寺 feels more "old"
  * Characterization. This is sort of tied in with "mood", but perhaps the translators wanted to make the characters and situation seem more old-fashioned and picturesque. Here too using 寺 could help.




Yes, a cathedral can be referred to as a 寺. Here's [Nogami Toyoichiro doing
just that](http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000963/card43101.html). Forgive
choppy translation, please:

>
> ノートル・ダームの大寺はローマ時代にはユピテルの神殿のあった位置で、イル・ド・ラ・シテが「パリの目」なら、ノートル・ダームはその「瞳」だといってもよい。ここに寺の建てられたのは四世紀の半ば過ぎで、初めは聖エティエンヌと呼ばれていた。それを聖母（ノートル・ダーム）に捧げる寺にしたのはいつ頃からかよくわからないが、ヴィクトル・ユーゴーに拠れば、シャールマーニュ帝が最初の礎石を置いたというから、そうすると八世紀の末か九世紀の初めであっただろう。
>
> The **大寺** of Notre Dame is located where the ancient Roman **神殿** to
> Jupiter was, and if the Île de la Cité is the "Eye of Paris", we can surely
> call Notre Dame the "Pupil". It was the latter half of the fourth century
> when the first **寺** was built here, which initially was called Saint-
> Etienne. It is not clear when that was made into a **寺** to the Holy Mother
> ("Notre Dame"), but, according to Victor Hugo, Charlemagne laid the first
> foundation stone, and so it must have been in the late eighth or early ninth
> century.

Nogami's chronology doesn't match up with the Wikipedia explanation, but as
you can see there is clearly precedent for using this sort of terminology for
Christian churches and even Notre Dame itself. I've seen 本山 used for people-
of-the-book religious buildings, and I've seen 教会 used to refer to "the
Church" (the organization) and 寺 for "church" (the building). And let's not
forget terms like
[南蛮寺](http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%97%E8%9B%AE%E5%AF%BA) ("Barbarian
temple") from the early Christian era in Japan...

However, as dainichi says, in _contemporary_ Japan (Nogami's piece apparently
dates from 1941) we would generally expect "church" to be translated 教会. This
is I think a reasonable observation. The reason for this is that Japanese
culture is becoming more familiarity with Christianity and other "world
religions," which means two interrelated things: (1) increasing awareness of
the distinction between them and Buddhism (i.e. they aren't just "corrupt
sects" of the same everything-except-Shinto "religion", they are a _different_
religion); (2) increasing specialization of and familiarity with vocabulary,
so that even non-Christians know that Christians call their place of worship a
教会 and believe it distinct from a 寺 (which is also "sharpening" as a concept
because of cultural self-consciousness).

So, why use 寺 in this translation if it is "possible but marked"? This is
something I cannot answer, although someone else might be able to. I can think
of several possible explanations, though, one or more of which might be true:

  * Timing. /tera/ is two morae shorter than /kyo:kai/. This might have been important.
  * Mood. In this story in particular, Notre Dame is not a modern, well-lit place of worship, but rather an ancient and foreboding place of worship. The translators may have felt that the implications of 教会 were too tied in with modernity and so on, while 寺 feels more "old"
  * Characterization. This is sort of tied in with "mood", but perhaps the translators wanted to make the characters and situation seem more old-fashioned and picturesque. Here too using 寺 could help.

