Usage of で particle in this sentence: この問題用紙は全部で8ページあります


Usage of particle で and に have been causing me quite some difficulties from
the beginning (I keep on using で instead of に and vice versa). From what I've
learned so far, particle で indicates either where an action is taking place or
by what means.

So how come で is being used with...全部... to mean "in all there is.."?

I would rather write it at as :

  * この問題用紙は **全部** 、8ページ **が** あります。 or,
  * この問題用紙は **全部に** 8ページがあります。 _(Maybe I'm interpreting に particle too literally here)_

Also, is the usage of particle が optional when stating 'there is something',
so using あります? This was the first example I've seen that didn't use particle が
with あります。 _(As some might have recognized, this example is from a JLPT test,
so there isn't a possibility it was just omitted)_

I would appreciate it if someone can translate what my versions of the
sentences would mean _(この問題用紙は全部、8ページがあります。and この問題用紙は全部に8ページがあります。)_ , so I'd
be able to compare them and maybe understand better. Thank you!




> 「この問題用紙{もんだいようし}は全部{ぜんぶ} **で** 8ページあります。」

The 「で」 here is used to describe what the **_standard (or limitation)_** is
for the object being talked about. In Japanese, the shorter the words, the
more meanings they have. 「で」 is no exception and I recommend that you look it
up in a **monolingual** dictionary in the near future.

In the meantime, however, it would also be important that you learn that
「全部で」, as a phrase, means " ** _in total_** ".

**In the sentence in question, no other word can replace the 「で」**. Particles
are far more stubborn and inflexible than Japanese-learners wish that they
were.

> "The question sheets consist of 8 pages in total."

is what the sentence means.

Your sentences:

1) この問題用紙は全部、8ページ **が** あります。

2) この問題用紙は全部 **に** 8ページ **が** あります。

I am afraid that neither sentence makes much sense. As an owner of a Japanese-
speaking mind, I have no idea why you are using a 「が」.

Upon hearing/seeing 「8ページ **が** 」, most Japanese-speakers would think, as I
would, that you were talking about " ** _page 8_** " of a book of some kind --
as in "Page 8 is very interesting.". In describing the quantity/volume, 「8ページ
**が** 」 sounds very "off". Thus, it is not a question of the 「が」 being
optional or not; It is simply incorrect to use it.

For this reason, both of your sentences do not really mean anything. But they
**_could_** be taken to mean the **strangest** thing.

Both "could" be taken to mean:

> "All these sets of question sheets contain page 8."

which is nonsensical.




> 「この問題用紙{もんだいようし}は全部{ぜんぶ} **で** 8ページあります。」

The 「で」 here is used to describe what the **_standard (or limitation)_** is
for the object being talked about. In Japanese, the shorter the words, the
more meanings they have. 「で」 is no exception and I recommend that you look it
up in a **monolingual** dictionary in the near future.

In the meantime, however, it would also be important that you learn that
「全部で」, as a phrase, means " ** _in total_** ".

**In the sentence in question, no other word can replace the 「で」**. Particles
are far more stubborn and inflexible than Japanese-learners wish that they
were.

> "The question sheets consist of 8 pages in total."

is what the sentence means.

Your sentences:

1) この問題用紙は全部、8ページ **が** あります。

2) この問題用紙は全部 **に** 8ページ **が** あります。

I am afraid that neither sentence makes much sense. As an owner of a Japanese-
speaking mind, I have no idea why you are using a 「が」.

Upon hearing/seeing 「8ページ **が** 」, most Japanese-speakers would think, as I
would, that you were talking about " ** _page 8_** " of a book of some kind --
as in "Page 8 is very interesting.". In describing the quantity/volume, 「8ページ
**が** 」 sounds very "off". Thus, it is not a question of the 「が」 being
optional or not; It is simply incorrect to use it.

For this reason, both of your sentences do not really mean anything. But they
**_could_** be taken to mean the **strangest** thing.

Both "could" be taken to mean:

> "All these sets of question sheets contain page 8."

which is nonsensical.

