Trouble understanding this use of あっての


I've previously asked
[two](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/6504/how-
is-%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AE-used-to-define-something) separate
[questions](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/6450/what-is-the-
difference-between-%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AE-
and-%E3%81%A8%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6) regarding あっての, (and there's a
[third](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/3269/%E3%80%8C%E6%82%AA%E6%B0%97%E3%81%8C%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AE%E7%AD%94%E3%81%88%E3%80%8D-vs-%E3%80%8C%E6%82%AA%E6%B0%97%E3%81%8C%E3%81%82%E3%82%8B%E7%AD%94%E3%81%88%E3%80%8D)
on here from Pacerier) and I thought I had it figured out, but then I found
this sentence (from a JLPT practice book--my bold) that just throws me for a
loop:

山での遭難記事を読むたびに **命あっての登山** なのにと悲しく思う。

Here's how I understand あっての, "B couldn't exist without A". For example:
あなたあっての私なんです ==> I wouldn't be here without you

Here's how I understand this sentence: Every time I read an article about a
disaster on the mountain, I think sadly "even though mountain climbing
wouldn't exist without life!".

This just doesn't make any sense to me, and I'm sure I have the meaning wrong.
Can someone explain what I've missed?

I've gone over this so many times, but I think there's is a cog stuck in my
brain when it comes to あっての.




I think AあってのB is used here the same way it's normally used. According to the
日本語文型辞典:

> 「XあってのY」の形で、「XがあるからYも成り立つ」という意味を表す。「XがなければYは成り立たない」という含みをもつ。

So XあってのY means "because there is X, Y also holds true" with the connotation
that "if there isn't X, Y doesn't hold true".

* * *

I think it is similar to the proverb 命あっての物種, which looking at [kotowaza-
allguide](http://kotowaza-allguide.com/i/inochimonodane.html) could literally
be something like "there can be no origin if there isn't life" (where 物種
refers to something that things can stem from) and can be translated as ["be
not worth risking one's
life"](http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E5%91%BD%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AE%E7%89%A9%E7%A8%AE).

From this I think 命あっての登山 could mean "there can be no mountain climbing if
there isn't life", and that it could also be translated as "it's not worth
risking (your) life mountain climbing".

* * *

When I Google that phrase, I came up with a couple of results like [the
following](http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1292497672):

> ...ヤバそうならやめる事ですね。命あっての登山ですし、来年も富士山はそこにあります。
>
> "If it looks dangerous you should give up. You can't mountain climb if
> you're not alive, and Mount Fuji will be there next year as well."

So I think it could translate to something like the following:

> 山での遭難記事を読むたびに命あっての登山なのにと悲しく思う。
>
> "Whenever I read articles about accidents in the mountains, I sadly think
> 'it's not worth risking your life mountain climbing'."




I think AあってのB is used here the same way it's normally used. According to the
日本語文型辞典:

> 「XあってのY」の形で、「XがあるからYも成り立つ」という意味を表す。「XがなければYは成り立たない」という含みをもつ。

So XあってのY means "because there is X, Y also holds true" with the connotation
that "if there isn't X, Y doesn't hold true".

* * *

I think it is similar to the proverb 命あっての物種, which looking at [kotowaza-
allguide](http://kotowaza-allguide.com/i/inochimonodane.html) could literally
be something like "there can be no origin if there isn't life" (where 物種
refers to something that things can stem from) and can be translated as ["be
not worth risking one's
life"](http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E5%91%BD%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AE%E7%89%A9%E7%A8%AE).

From this I think 命あっての登山 could mean "there can be no mountain climbing if
there isn't life", and that it could also be translated as "it's not worth
risking (your) life mountain climbing".

* * *

When I Google that phrase, I came up with a couple of results like [the
following](http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1292497672):

> ...ヤバそうならやめる事ですね。命あっての登山ですし、来年も富士山はそこにあります。
>
> "If it looks dangerous you should give up. You can't mountain climb if
> you're not alive, and Mount Fuji will be there next year as well."

So I think it could translate to something like the following:

> 山での遭難記事を読むたびに命あっての登山なのにと悲しく思う。
>
> "Whenever I read articles about accidents in the mountains, I sadly think
> 'it's not worth risking your life mountain climbing'."

