What is the difference between 出す and 始める when used as a suffix?


Judging from examples I've seen, these are some differences I _think_ there
are:

[code]

    始める:
    1: More formal than 出す
    2: When the focus in more on the beginning of the verb than the verb itself
    3: When the action is deliberate and/or under control. 
    
    出す:
    1: When the action occurs spontaneously or without ones control.
    2: More colloquial than 始める
    3: Less focus on the beginning itself than 始める
    
[/code]

Are any of the observations I made incorrect, or is there perhaps some
differences I've missed?




The primary difference is that 出す implies something sudden or unexpected. For
example, consider the sentence 私は泣き出した and 私は泣きはじめた. In the first we get a
natural expression which implies that you (beyond your control) started
crying. The second one is grammatically correct, but by using 始めた you're
implying a sense of purpose, like you're making yourself cry for some reason.
You cannot use 出す to express will or volition, so the sentence 歩き出しましょう would
be strange.

The tricky part about trying to find a distinction here is that no matter how
many rules you try to apply you're going to be finding exceptions. At the very
basic level you can think of 出す as something unexpected or sudden, possibly
both, possibly just one. I'm going to borrow a citation from one of the pages
below:

> 講談社インターナショナルの『日本語使い分け辞典』からの引用です。
> 「～だす」は「～始める」よりも客観的で、自分の意志での動作や行動には使いません。また、「～始める」は単に、ある動作・行動・状態の初期だということですが、「～だす」は、その動作・行動・状態を予想していなかったという「軽い驚きや戸惑い」の感情を含んでいます。（引用終わり）

I agree with the bit that suggests a slight surprise or confusion, even in
situations like スタートの合図が鳴り、彼らはいっせいに走り出した。 Even if you expect them to start
running, there's still an air of unexpectedness to it because the signal comes
suddenly. 出す suggests that they were still and suddenly started moving. If it
were 走り始めた then it would have the same general meaning but that nuance of
sudden change is gone.

Also just to briefly mention it, 出す also has a spatial meaning of movement
from inside to outside, like in ポケットからナイフを取り出す, but that's unrelated to the
sense of beginning.

As for your other points, I don't think there is a real difference in
formality. I can imagine both being used in formal speech as long as the
occasion calls for the nuances associated. You mentioned the part about
deliberateness and control which is correct for 始める in some situations, but
it's important to note that it can have general connotation of expectedness
when it's out of the control of the speaker, like 太陽が沈み始める. And I agree that
there is more of an emphasis on the 'beginning' of an action with 始める while 出す
tends to express more of the sudden change between two states.

Check these sources out for more info:

  1. [http://nihongo-online.jp/bbs/artview.cgi?id=30&mode=view&page=2&num=640&sort=1&back=tree](http://nihongo-online.jp/bbs/artview.cgi?id=30&mode=view&page=2&num=640&sort=1&back=tree)
  2. <http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/treebbs.cgi?log=9657>
  3. <http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/treebbs.cgi?log=9659>
  4. <http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/treebbs.cgi?log=9660>




The primary difference is that 出す implies something sudden or unexpected. For
example, consider the sentence 私は泣き出した and 私は泣きはじめた. In the first we get a
natural expression which implies that you (beyond your control) started
crying. The second one is grammatically correct, but by using 始めた you're
implying a sense of purpose, like you're making yourself cry for some reason.
You cannot use 出す to express will or volition, so the sentence 歩き出しましょう would
be strange.

The tricky part about trying to find a distinction here is that no matter how
many rules you try to apply you're going to be finding exceptions. At the very
basic level you can think of 出す as something unexpected or sudden, possibly
both, possibly just one. I'm going to borrow a citation from one of the pages
below:

> 講談社インターナショナルの『日本語使い分け辞典』からの引用です。
> 「～だす」は「～始める」よりも客観的で、自分の意志での動作や行動には使いません。また、「～始める」は単に、ある動作・行動・状態の初期だということですが、「～だす」は、その動作・行動・状態を予想していなかったという「軽い驚きや戸惑い」の感情を含んでいます。（引用終わり）

I agree with the bit that suggests a slight surprise or confusion, even in
situations like スタートの合図が鳴り、彼らはいっせいに走り出した。 Even if you expect them to start
running, there's still an air of unexpectedness to it because the signal comes
suddenly. 出す suggests that they were still and suddenly started moving. If it
were 走り始めた then it would have the same general meaning but that nuance of
sudden change is gone.

Also just to briefly mention it, 出す also has a spatial meaning of movement
from inside to outside, like in ポケットからナイフを取り出す, but that's unrelated to the
sense of beginning.

As for your other points, I don't think there is a real difference in
formality. I can imagine both being used in formal speech as long as the
occasion calls for the nuances associated. You mentioned the part about
deliberateness and control which is correct for 始める in some situations, but
it's important to note that it can have general connotation of expectedness
when it's out of the control of the speaker, like 太陽が沈み始める. And I agree that
there is more of an emphasis on the 'beginning' of an action with 始める while 出す
tends to express more of the sudden change between two states.

Check these sources out for more info:

  1. [http://nihongo-online.jp/bbs/artview.cgi?id=30&mode=view&page=2&num=640&sort=1&back=tree](http://nihongo-online.jp/bbs/artview.cgi?id=30&mode=view&page=2&num=640&sort=1&back=tree)
  2. <http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/treebbs.cgi?log=9657>
  3. <http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/treebbs.cgi?log=9659>
  4. <http://nihongo-online.jp/tree02/treebbs.cgi?log=9660>

