Question regarding the 「⻏」radical


I’ve put ⻏ in the search function but got no result.

There are two ⻏radicals. Their origins are different but they are visually
identical.

On Jisho: [![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oPF4A.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oPF4A.png)

But in a different dictionary (an app I got for my iPad) the two ⻏ radicals
are listed differently. One as having 2 strokes while the other 3 even though
they are visually identical: [![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/QtCrj.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/QtCrj.png)

Also, while for Jisho the kanji listing is coherent depending on whether the
⻏is on the left or right side, the one from the application dictionary has
kanji listings where the ⻏is in different positions.

So my question is: why? AFAIK dictionaries are frontends for the same
database. Why are they listing that radical differently? Which one is right?
Is the app one faulty in its radical classification?




I think part of the confusion here is that _radicals_ are not the same thing
as _components_. This is compounded by the fact that many sources use the term
"radical" incorrectly, including jisho.org, which refers to what it offers as
a radical search, but what it does is actually more correctly a component
search.

_component_ is a term for any common part of kanji characters which can show
up in multiple kanji. Most kanji are made up of a bunch of components put
together.

_radical_ is actually a technical term which refers specifically to just the
component of each kanji which is traditionally used to index and order it in
dictionaries, etc. There are many components that are used in kanji which have
never been used for the purposes of indexing/ordering/etc, and thus are not
technically radicals (and there are many kanji that have components which are
radicals, but the place that the component is used in that kanji makes it not
a radical in that particular case).

I'm not familiar with the dictionary app you reference, but it may be using a
more traditional dictionary radical index, which means it is probably only
looking up kanji according to their typical/official radical for that kanji
(typically each kanji is only assigned one radical, even if there are multiple
shapes in it which look like radical shapes, and often the choice of which is
"the radical for this kanji" can be a bit arbitrary, or based on non-obvious
historical factors).

Jisho, on the other hand, will actually (usually) find kanji which use a
particular component anywhere in the kanji, regardless of whether it's the
official radical for that kanji or not (however, Jisho does still distinguish
between left-side and right-side versions as different components, as you've
noticed).

So I think the answer to your main question is probably that the two are
actually not using the same underlying data. One is using a radical index, and
the other is actually using a component index (which is much more
comprehensive than just radicals).

As for why the dictionary app shows that shape as both a two-stroke and a
three-stroke radical, I don't really know. As Pablo mentioned, that radical is
sometimes interpreted either way, so it is possible that they just listed the
same radical in both categories so that it would be easy to find regardless of
whether the user thinks it's a two-stroke or three-stroke radical. It's also
possible that they're distinguishing between left-side and right-side
versions, and just using the stroke count as a (not entirely obvious) way for
the user to tell one from the other (since you can't tell by how they're
drawn), but if that's the intent I'm not sure how you're supposed to know
which is which (except trial and error).




I think part of the confusion here is that _radicals_ are not the same thing
as _components_. This is compounded by the fact that many sources use the term
"radical" incorrectly, including jisho.org, which refers to what it offers as
a radical search, but what it does is actually more correctly a component
search.

_component_ is a term for any common part of kanji characters which can show
up in multiple kanji. Most kanji are made up of a bunch of components put
together.

_radical_ is actually a technical term which refers specifically to just the
component of each kanji which is traditionally used to index and order it in
dictionaries, etc. There are many components that are used in kanji which have
never been used for the purposes of indexing/ordering/etc, and thus are not
technically radicals (and there are many kanji that have components which are
radicals, but the place that the component is used in that kanji makes it not
a radical in that particular case).

I'm not familiar with the dictionary app you reference, but it may be using a
more traditional dictionary radical index, which means it is probably only
looking up kanji according to their typical/official radical for that kanji
(typically each kanji is only assigned one radical, even if there are multiple
shapes in it which look like radical shapes, and often the choice of which is
"the radical for this kanji" can be a bit arbitrary, or based on non-obvious
historical factors).

Jisho, on the other hand, will actually (usually) find kanji which use a
particular component anywhere in the kanji, regardless of whether it's the
official radical for that kanji or not (however, Jisho does still distinguish
between left-side and right-side versions as different components, as you've
noticed).

So I think the answer to your main question is probably that the two are
actually not using the same underlying data. One is using a radical index, and
the other is actually using a component index (which is much more
comprehensive than just radicals).

As for why the dictionary app shows that shape as both a two-stroke and a
three-stroke radical, I don't really know. As Pablo mentioned, that radical is
sometimes interpreted either way, so it is possible that they just listed the
same radical in both categories so that it would be easy to find regardless of
whether the user thinks it's a two-stroke or three-stroke radical. It's also
possible that they're distinguishing between left-side and right-side
versions, and just using the stroke count as a (not entirely obvious) way for
the user to tell one from the other (since you can't tell by how they're
drawn), but if that's the intent I'm not sure how you're supposed to know
which is which (except trial and error).

