What is the "では" in "それでは"?


My teacher told me the "で" in "それでは" was not the particle "で", would that mean
it is the same "では" as in "ではない" (aka the て-form of です)? If, so what is the
literal meaning of "それでは"?




**I do not agree with your teacher, and can assure you that syntactically, the
で of では is 100% the てform of だ, and this では is the same では as in ではない。**

Now, both では and ではない are already common expressions, and are usually taught
as "one single thing." But let's break them down and see why are they the way
they are, shall we?

First, let's take a verb "to run" `走る`. This is its terminal form, which is
the same as its dictionary form, which should only appear at end of sentences
or relative clauses. Ex. He runs `彼は走る` The dog that runs `走る犬`.

Now, what if I want to make this action of running the subject of my sentence?
Well, two options. One is to nominalize the verb using こと, so (the action of)
running is not ok would be `走ることはいけない`. The second option is to use its てform,
which kind of "nominalizes" the verb, and we can use it as the subject now.
Running is not ok `走ってはいけない`.

This is one of many uses of てform, but is the one we are focusing on to
explain では. The terminal form of "(something) is a dog" is `犬だ`. What if I
want to use this "(something) being a dog" as the subject? Same answer - the
てform, which is `犬で`. Then, we can say things like

  * (something) being a dog is not ok `犬ではいけない` (Not necessarily the listener being a dog is not ok. Maybe you're choosing your favourite animal, and I tell you `犬ではいけない`, then **your choice** being a dog is not ok.)
  * (something) being a dog is scary `犬では恐ろしい` (Again, the something here can be a lot of things based on context, could be me being a dog is scary, could be my friend's new pet being a dog is scary, etc.)
  * And classically, not a dog. `犬ではない`. Here, it literally means "(the idea of) something being a dog does not exist". Conversely, you might have also heard `犬で(は)ある`. It means "it's a dog", but more literally "(the idea of) something being a dog exists"

Sometimes ではない is でない, and である can also be ではある. Same meaning, just sometimes
people drop the は particle.

Now, I hope you see that the で of では is **exactly** the てform of だ, and では in
ではない is not anything special. For your example, それでは, or sometimes just では at
beginning of sentences, it translates as "that said" or "therefore", but
literally it's just "regarding (it) being that", or それ{that} で{being}
は{regarding}

それでは、会議を終わらせましょう。  
So, let's end the meeting.  
Regarding it being like that, let's end the meeting.

Japanese is a very structural language, and I often times feel its grammar is
taught in an unnecessarily complex way. If we can break down set phrases to
trace the grammatical elements behind them then the students can surely get a
better understanding of the language, and once the literal meaning is known,
some of the nuances and quirks of certain phrases (like what tone does this
carry) would come as a natural realization.




**I do not agree with your teacher, and can assure you that syntactically, the
で of では is 100% the てform of だ, and this では is the same では as in ではない。**

Now, both では and ではない are already common expressions, and are usually taught
as "one single thing." But let's break them down and see why are they the way
they are, shall we?

First, let's take a verb "to run" `走る`. This is its terminal form, which is
the same as its dictionary form, which should only appear at end of sentences
or relative clauses. Ex. He runs `彼は走る` The dog that runs `走る犬`.

Now, what if I want to make this action of running the subject of my sentence?
Well, two options. One is to nominalize the verb using こと, so (the action of)
running is not ok would be `走ることはいけない`. The second option is to use its てform,
which kind of "nominalizes" the verb, and we can use it as the subject now.
Running is not ok `走ってはいけない`.

This is one of many uses of てform, but is the one we are focusing on to
explain では. The terminal form of "(something) is a dog" is `犬だ`. What if I
want to use this "(something) being a dog" as the subject? Same answer - the
てform, which is `犬で`. Then, we can say things like

  * (something) being a dog is not ok `犬ではいけない` (Not necessarily the listener being a dog is not ok. Maybe you're choosing your favourite animal, and I tell you `犬ではいけない`, then **your choice** being a dog is not ok.)
  * (something) being a dog is scary `犬では恐ろしい` (Again, the something here can be a lot of things based on context, could be me being a dog is scary, could be my friend's new pet being a dog is scary, etc.)
  * And classically, not a dog. `犬ではない`. Here, it literally means "(the idea of) something being a dog does not exist". Conversely, you might have also heard `犬で(は)ある`. It means "it's a dog", but more literally "(the idea of) something being a dog exists"

Sometimes ではない is でない, and である can also be ではある. Same meaning, just sometimes
people drop the は particle.

Now, I hope you see that the で of では is **exactly** the てform of だ, and では in
ではない is not anything special. For your example, それでは, or sometimes just では at
beginning of sentences, it translates as "that said" or "therefore", but
literally it's just "regarding (it) being that", or それ{that} で{being}
は{regarding}

それでは、会議を終わらせましょう。  
So, let's end the meeting.  
Regarding it being like that, let's end the meeting.

Japanese is a very structural language, and I often times feel its grammar is
taught in an unnecessarily complex way. If we can break down set phrases to
trace the grammatical elements behind them then the students can surely get a
better understanding of the language, and once the literal meaning is known,
some of the nuances and quirks of certain phrases (like what tone does this
carry) would come as a natural realization.

