に vs で: 映画に見る vs 映画で見る


Branching off from [the comments to this question: Do I say えいがにみました or
えいがをみました ？](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/19160/542):

* * *

Preamble:

The comment says `映画に見た` is valid for "I saw it in a movie". I went to search
for example sentences and found both `に見た` and `で見た` excluding adverbial types
like ～的に見た, ～ように見た.  

I found an instance of co-existence of に and で: `夢に見る` and `夢で見る`

I also found that a large amount of で見る results from < medium >で見る：

  * 新聞で見る
  * 雑誌で見る
  * テレビで見る

The purpose of this question is to reconcile the simultaneous existence of
Xに見る and Xで見る for the same X

* * *

My thoughts so far:

I think both に and で are possible for some cases. YをXに見る places the person in
the "physical" position X in order to see Y. YをXで見る is what I'm familiar with,
and it says X is a medium for which the person sees Y.

I think for テレビ, only で is available, because you cannot be physically placed
in テレビ.

While for 夢, both に and で are available; you can see it because you are in the
夢 and also because 夢 is a medium

If I were to force a translation of 映画に見る vs. 映画で見る, the former would be "I
saw it at the movies", the latter would be "I saw it in a movie". I.e. I think
に is locative and で is instrumental.

* * *

From the corpus search using [BCCWJ](http://www.kotonoha.gr.jp/shonagon/):

  * There are 5 results from using 映画に見 as a search term
  * There are 36 results from using 映画で見 as a search term

It seems both に and で can be used, with で being more common.  
What does the use of に do to the sentence?  
What circumstances would cause に to be preferred?




Both 「[映画]{えいが} **で** [見]{み}る」 and 「映画 **に** 見る」 are correct and natural-
sounding phrases but they have fairly different meanings from each other.

「映画 **で** 見る」 is the simpler and more often used of the two.

If you saw a certain thing, town, car, house, actor, etc. in a movie, you 映画
**で** those things を見た. Those **tangible objects** just physically appeared on
the screen and you saw them with your eyes.

「映画 **に** 見る」 is less often used and it is more analytical in meaning than 「映画
**で** 見る」.

We use the phrase when talking about **how abstract ideas are depicted** in
films. For instance, you can say things like 「映画 **に** 見るアメリカ文化」= "American
culture dipicted in films", 「イタリア映画 **に** 見る性差別」= "sexism depicted in Italian
films", etc.

In informal speech, however, some people actually would say those phrases
above using で, but it would sound more proper and refined if you used に for
this meaning.

To explain this important difference from another angle, the verb 「見る」 has
different nuances in the two phrases.

In 「映画 **で** 見る」, 「見る」 simply means "to see". If you only had your eyes open,
you saw the thing because it appeared in the film. No thinking or analyzing is
involved.

In 「映画 **に** 見る」,「見る」 implies "to (carefully) observe for analysis."

Unlike what OP states, the same (the に and で difference) goes for the other
media than films as well. We can say 「テレビ **に** 見る～～」.

Finally, because of all that I have discussed, it is also completely correct
and natural to say 「ラジオ **に** 見る～～」 but not 「ラジオ **で** 見る～～」.




Both 「[映画]{えいが} **で** [見]{み}る」 and 「映画 **に** 見る」 are correct and natural-
sounding phrases but they have fairly different meanings from each other.

「映画 **で** 見る」 is the simpler and more often used of the two.

If you saw a certain thing, town, car, house, actor, etc. in a movie, you 映画
**で** those things を見た. Those **tangible objects** just physically appeared on
the screen and you saw them with your eyes.

「映画 **に** 見る」 is less often used and it is more analytical in meaning than 「映画
**で** 見る」.

We use the phrase when talking about **how abstract ideas are depicted** in
films. For instance, you can say things like 「映画 **に** 見るアメリカ文化」= "American
culture dipicted in films", 「イタリア映画 **に** 見る性差別」= "sexism depicted in Italian
films", etc.

In informal speech, however, some people actually would say those phrases
above using で, but it would sound more proper and refined if you used に for
this meaning.

To explain this important difference from another angle, the verb 「見る」 has
different nuances in the two phrases.

In 「映画 **で** 見る」, 「見る」 simply means "to see". If you only had your eyes open,
you saw the thing because it appeared in the film. No thinking or analyzing is
involved.

In 「映画 **に** 見る」,「見る」 implies "to (carefully) observe for analysis."

Unlike what OP states, the same (the に and で difference) goes for the other
media than films as well. We can say 「テレビ **に** 見る～～」.

Finally, because of all that I have discussed, it is also completely correct
and natural to say 「ラジオ **に** 見る～～」 but not 「ラジオ **で** 見る～～」.

