くらい and ほど -- Where do they come from?


I've searched for a while now but haven't really found anything that answers
my question.

I would like to know where ほど and くらい come from and how they got to mean such
different things.

I know that ほど is 程, which means "extent", and recently I found out that くらい
is 位 so it means "rank". But I can't find a book or a site or anything that
talks about them.

Does anyone have any information?




### Derivation of 程【ほど】

The modern reading _hodo_ is a shift from older _hoto_.

**Speculation:** This element might be the same _hoto_ that appears as a
compounding element in various verbs, apparently related to the adverb
_potopoto_ "drippingly", in reference to liquids. These verbs include:

  * 迸る【ほとばしる】: "to gush, to surge". Compound of _hoto_ + _hashiru_ , where _hoto_ seems to mean "lots of water"
  * 潤びる【ほとびる】: "to swell or soften with water". from older ほとぶ. Compound of _hoto_ + suffix _-bu_ , which appears to be an instance of `/b/` ↔ `/m/` alternation with suffix _-mu_ , "to become like, to appear like". The _hoto_ element could again be interpreted as "lots of water", in the context of "having" or "full of".

If 程【ほど】 derives from the same _hoto_ , it might be a reference to "an amount
(of something)".

### Derivation of 位【くらい】

Originally a compound of 座【くら】 ("seat") + 居【ゐ】 ("being, sitting", the
連用形【れんようけい】 or continuative form of verb 居る【ゐる】 "to be or sit in a place").

The initial sense was "where one sits", used then as a euphemism for one's
social standing. (For that matter, the English term "standing" is a similar
kind of usage.) Over time, this sense of "rank" was extended to refer to
various other things.

### Usage

My personal sense for the subtleties of word usage is limited as a non-native
speaker. My gut feeling is that 程【ほど】 is used in places where English would
have "as much (or some other adjective) as" or "so much (or some other
adjective) that", as in:

  * 「ＡさんはＢさん[ほ]{●}[ど]{●}淋【さみ】しい」, "A is **as lonely as** B".
  * 「Ａが高ければ高い[ほ]{●}[ど]{●}、Ｂが大きい」, literally "if A is high, then **as high as** it is, B is that big" → "the higher the A, the bigger the B".
  * 「どれ[ほ]{●}[ど]{●}食べたのですか？」, literally "You ate **as much as** which?" → " **How much** did you eat?"

That said, 位【くらい】 is also used the same way as the last pattern:
「どれ[く]{●}[ら]{●}[い]{●}食べた？」. In fact, 位【くらい】 seems to be more common than 程【ほど】
in this usage. However, 位【くらい】 is never used for the `[ADJ]`ければ`[ADJ]`ほど
construction, and for the first pattern, it requires a の where 程【ほど】 just
comes right after the noun.

I'll leave a qualitative analysis of the different uses to other posters.

