How do 行く and 来る *really* work?


We have a question on this site, [What is the _proper_ differentiation between
来る and 行く?](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/1669/what-is-the-
proper-differentiation-between-%e6%9d%a5%e3%82%8b-and-%e8%a1%8c%e3%81%8f),
which does seem to correctly explain the basic general differentiation between
行く and 来る, which is that it is chosen based on the speaker's perspective
(regardless of sentence subject, etc.).

However, this is what still confuses me: **Physical location of speaker at
speech time is not what determines the verb.**

If you are at school and you invite your friend over to your house, you say
「うち来る？」, not 「うち行く？」, right? If you live in Japan but you're visiting America
and invite your American friend to Japan, you say 「日本来る？」 right? (Although, if
you're just asking if they will go to Japan at all, not to visit you or
something like that, it's 「日本行くの？」, yeah?)

I can imagine two ways to account for this: 1. it's the speaker's location _at
the time of movement_ that's relevant, not their current location, or 2. it's
the speaker's "ownership" of the location that's relevant (which I think
accounts for the 日本来る・日本行く difference in nuance pretty well).

I think it's two, but physically being somewhere gives you a sense of
ownership over the location?

「パーティー来る？」 is okay to say even if it's not your party, but you just happen to
already be there, right? 「彼は一週間前ここに来たみたい。」 is fine, even if where you are is
totally not yours, yeah?

How about being physically somewhere at movement time?
「俺は１時から５時まで太郎の家にいるから、その間に来るよね？」 seems like it could be okay, but I think 行く is
at least also is fine here...

But if course, it's not just physical location at speech time, or physical
location at movement time, because 「私がいない間うちに来たのよ…」 works even if you're not
at home.

Yet, if you use 一緒に, then you must use 行く 「一緒にうちまで行く？」 I think, even if it's
yours...

Is there some simple explanation which accounts for all this (assuming my
judgments are correct, and I'm not too sure about them to say the least)?




Not only the choice between 行{い}く and 来{く}る, but all the events need to be
described based on the speaker's perspective. So, the physical presence of the
speaker doesn't matter. Although, the choice of the verbs 行{い}く and 来{く}る
represents the place the speaker focuses on.

> 行{い}く
>
> **the point of starting [A]** --------> somewhere [B]
>
> 来{く}る
>
> somewhere [A] --------> **the point of arrival [B]**

Both 行{い}く & 来{く}る indicates the movement from A to B. 行{い}く is used when the
speaker concentrates on where the action starts. On the other hand, 来{く}る is
used when the speaker concentrates on the point of arrival.

> A: I'm **going** to the library.
>
> B: Can I **come** , too?
>
> A: 図書館{としょかん}に **行{い}きます** 。
>
> B: 私{わたし}も **行{い}って** いいですか。

行{い}く indicates that someone or something leaves from the point where the
person or the thing is, whoever the doer of the verb is. But 来{く}る normally
indicates that someone or something arrives to the speaker or the place the
speaker belongs to. So, 来{く}る cannot be used for the sentence B in the
example.

> If you are at school and you invite your friend over to your house,
>
> ○ うちに来{く}る？
>
> ? うちに行{い}く？

The owner of うち is usually the speaker unless it's pointed out as 〜さんのうち or
うちに帰{かえ}る (帰{かえ}る is only used when the point of arrival is where the doer
belongs). So, in this case, 来{く}る is normally used. Although, 行{い}く could be
used if you want to suggest your friend to go to your house together, such as
うちに行{い}かない？ or うちに行{い}こう. うちに行{い}く？ sounds like you won't be home when your
friend comes or うち is not yours but someone else's.

> 一緒{いっしょ}にうちまで行{い}く？

This is fine when you are sure to head to your place with your friend.

> If you live in Japan but you're visiting America and invite your American
> friend to Japan

In this case, I would say,

> 日本{にほん}に来{こ}ない？

Using 来{く}る is right because you concentrate on the point of arrival 日本{にほん}.
But 日本{にほん}に来{く}る？ sounds as you ask your friend if s/he would come or not
like 'Will you come to Japan?'. 日本{にほん}行{い}くの？ sounds unnatural in this case
but could be used when you don't live in Japan and want to know if your friend
goes there or not.

> パーティーに来{く}る？

You can use 来{く}る, even you are not the organizer of the party, as long as you
very sure to participate in it. If you're unsure about your participation,
行{い}く should be used.

> 彼{かれ}は一週間{いっしゅうかん}前{まえ}ここに来{き}たみたい。

Yes, this is fine if you are at right in the place he visited. The place
doesn't necessarily need to be yours. If you use 行{い}った instead, you are
probably talking about where he visited while looking at the map.

> 俺{おれ}は１時{じ}から５時{じ}まで太郎{たろう}の家{いえ}にいるから、その間{あいだ}に来{く}るよね？

Since 来{く}る is used, the speaker is asking if the listener is coming to
太郎{たろう}の家{いえ} where he will be. 行{い}く can be used when the speaker wants to
ask if the listener visit somewhere else but 太郎{たろう}の家{いえ}.




Not only the choice between 行{い}く and 来{く}る, but all the events need to be
described based on the speaker's perspective. So, the physical presence of the
speaker doesn't matter. Although, the choice of the verbs 行{い}く and 来{く}る
represents the place the speaker focuses on.

> 行{い}く
>
> **the point of starting [A]** --------> somewhere [B]
>
> 来{く}る
>
> somewhere [A] --------> **the point of arrival [B]**

Both 行{い}く & 来{く}る indicates the movement from A to B. 行{い}く is used when the
speaker concentrates on where the action starts. On the other hand, 来{く}る is
used when the speaker concentrates on the point of arrival.

> A: I'm **going** to the library.
>
> B: Can I **come** , too?
>
> A: 図書館{としょかん}に **行{い}きます** 。
>
> B: 私{わたし}も **行{い}って** いいですか。

行{い}く indicates that someone or something leaves from the point where the
person or the thing is, whoever the doer of the verb is. But 来{く}る normally
indicates that someone or something arrives to the speaker or the place the
speaker belongs to. So, 来{く}る cannot be used for the sentence B in the
example.

> If you are at school and you invite your friend over to your house,
>
> ○ うちに来{く}る？
>
> ? うちに行{い}く？

The owner of うち is usually the speaker unless it's pointed out as 〜さんのうち or
うちに帰{かえ}る (帰{かえ}る is only used when the point of arrival is where the doer
belongs). So, in this case, 来{く}る is normally used. Although, 行{い}く could be
used if you want to suggest your friend to go to your house together, such as
うちに行{い}かない？ or うちに行{い}こう. うちに行{い}く？ sounds like you won't be home when your
friend comes or うち is not yours but someone else's.

> 一緒{いっしょ}にうちまで行{い}く？

This is fine when you are sure to head to your place with your friend.

> If you live in Japan but you're visiting America and invite your American
> friend to Japan

In this case, I would say,

> 日本{にほん}に来{こ}ない？

Using 来{く}る is right because you concentrate on the point of arrival 日本{にほん}.
But 日本{にほん}に来{く}る？ sounds as you ask your friend if s/he would come or not
like 'Will you come to Japan?'. 日本{にほん}行{い}くの？ sounds unnatural in this case
but could be used when you don't live in Japan and want to know if your friend
goes there or not.

> パーティーに来{く}る？

You can use 来{く}る, even you are not the organizer of the party, as long as you
very sure to participate in it. If you're unsure about your participation,
行{い}く should be used.

> 彼{かれ}は一週間{いっしゅうかん}前{まえ}ここに来{き}たみたい。

Yes, this is fine if you are at right in the place he visited. The place
doesn't necessarily need to be yours. If you use 行{い}った instead, you are
probably talking about where he visited while looking at the map.

> 俺{おれ}は１時{じ}から５時{じ}まで太郎{たろう}の家{いえ}にいるから、その間{あいだ}に来{く}るよね？

Since 来{く}る is used, the speaker is asking if the listener is coming to
太郎{たろう}の家{いえ} where he will be. 行{い}く can be used when the speaker wants to
ask if the listener visit somewhere else but 太郎{たろう}の家{いえ}.

