Particle と as a standard of comparison with まで


Referring to the sound of an extreme megaphone:

> 地上なら、何十キロ **と** 遠くまで達する音だ。  
>  If it's above ground it is a sound that will reach as far as several tens
> of kilometres.

I'm pretty confident I've translated this correctly but I don't understand how
the と particle is working here.

My guess is that it is being used to mark a standard for comparison. So in
really bad English I have "The sound reaches distantly, as much as compared to
tens of kilometres".

If my above assumption is true then what happens if I remove まで? My guess is
that the sentence becomes ungrammatical. So I can have 地上なら、遠く達する音だ. But
neither 地上なら、遠くまで達する音だ nor 地上なら、何十キロと遠く達する音だ make sense on their own.

In summary I feel that the と and まで particles are teaming up in this sentence.
To give AとBまで with a meaning "As much as characteristic B when compared to A".

Could I rephrase it as:

> 地上なら、何十キロほど遠く達する音だ。

Would that be wrong? Have a different feel?

Is my analysis correct? If not please enlighten me.

**Edit:**

The suggested duplicate explains と. but it leaves me more confused, because I
thought まで was playing the part of 'as much as'. What is まで doing? Can it be
removed? I still don't understand the overall grammar of the sentence.




Now probably you are confused by the series of non-obvious idiomatic
expressions. A more literal translation would be:

> 地上なら、［［何十キロと］［遠くまで］達する］音だ。  
>  _It is a sound that [should reach [to a distance], [by tens of kilometers]]
> if on the ground._

So yours is correct as a whole too, but there is no connection between 何十キロと
and 遠くまで, as both are independent qualifiers to the verb.

  * **何十キロと**  
As previously pointed out, this と is covered by [と after counting
something](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/31099/7810), the way to remind
about greatness of the amount. You can actually translate this part alone "as
far as tens of kilometers". 何十キロほど just means "some tens of km" or "roughly
tens of km", but 何十キロほど **も** would be somewhat close to this.

  * **遠くまで**  
This is _noun_
[遠く](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/157255/meaning/m0u/%E9%81%A0%E3%81%8F/)
"distant place" + postposition まで "till".

To explain 遠く first, we have adverb-looking forms 遠く and
[近く](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/141163/meaning/m0u/%E8%BF%91%E3%81%8F/)
as very commonly used nouns (though tend to become adjective in English
translations).

> 電話は遠くに住む人と会話できる _By telephone you can talk with people living far away (= in
> a distant place)._
>
> 遠くの親戚より近くの他人 _Strangers nearby rather than relatives faraway._ (A near
> friend is better than a far-dwelling kinsman.)

On top of this, 遠くまで "up to a distance" should be memorized as if a fixed
phrase, since it translates a part of usage of English "far". Why? Because
Japanese 遠い is not just "long way" but "separated by a long distance", in
other words, "removed by distance in the way two points do not interact".
Thus, a phrase like 遠く達する will be, positively saying, poetic, and negatively,
unnatural (because it actually reaches the other side). For this reason, 遠くまで
is the normal phrase we use to describe something travels "far".

> ○ 遠くまで来たものだ _we've come a long way; we've come this far_  
>  ○ 遠く（へ／に）来たものだ  
>  × 遠く来たものだ




Now probably you are confused by the series of non-obvious idiomatic
expressions. A more literal translation would be:

> 地上なら、［［何十キロと］［遠くまで］達する］音だ。  
>  _It is a sound that [should reach [to a distance], [by tens of kilometers]]
> if on the ground._

So yours is correct as a whole too, but there is no connection between 何十キロと
and 遠くまで, as both are independent qualifiers to the verb.

  * **何十キロと**  
As previously pointed out, this と is covered by [と after counting
something](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/31099/7810), the way to remind
about greatness of the amount. You can actually translate this part alone "as
far as tens of kilometers". 何十キロほど just means "some tens of km" or "roughly
tens of km", but 何十キロほど **も** would be somewhat close to this.

  * **遠くまで**  
This is _noun_
[遠く](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/157255/meaning/m0u/%E9%81%A0%E3%81%8F/)
"distant place" + postposition まで "till".

To explain 遠く first, we have adverb-looking forms 遠く and
[近く](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/141163/meaning/m0u/%E8%BF%91%E3%81%8F/)
as very commonly used nouns (though tend to become adjective in English
translations).

> 電話は遠くに住む人と会話できる _By telephone you can talk with people living far away (= in
> a distant place)._
>
> 遠くの親戚より近くの他人 _Strangers nearby rather than relatives faraway._ (A near
> friend is better than a far-dwelling kinsman.)

On top of this, 遠くまで "up to a distance" should be memorized as if a fixed
phrase, since it translates a part of usage of English "far". Why? Because
Japanese 遠い is not just "long way" but "separated by a long distance", in
other words, "removed by distance in the way two points do not interact".
Thus, a phrase like 遠く達する will be, positively saying, poetic, and negatively,
unnatural (because it actually reaches the other side). For this reason, 遠くまで
is the normal phrase we use to describe something travels "far".

> ○ 遠くまで来たものだ _we've come a long way; we've come this far_  
>  ○ 遠く（へ／に）来たものだ  
>  × 遠く来たものだ

