Non-Japanese can know their "マナー", but not their "礼儀{れいぎ}"?


Recently, I was talking about nouveau riche Chinese behaving badly abroad. I
was referencing that some cut in line, speak loudly, etc. (going from rural
China to Fifth Ave. can be disorienting; i am not speaking ill of anyone).

In that context, I described such Chinese as "礼儀が知{し}らない". But, now I
definitely think that that usage of "礼儀" is wrong. Respecting other people's
space, not cutting in line, etc. is really "マナー” right?

"礼儀" is a strange word? Non-Japanese not only are not expected to know "礼儀",
they can't. The word seems like something only a Japanese person can
understand the definition of. Is that true?  
「田中{たなか}さんは礼儀が知らないやつだよね。」 seems quite natural?  
「Bobさんは礼儀が知らないやつだよね。」 just does not sound right? I mean, Bob is not 日本人、so how
could he possibly know his "礼儀"?

So, non-Japanese can only know the マナー that we follow in the West? 日本人 can not
only know their マナー、 they also know their "礼儀"? What is "礼儀"? It is like
respect for one's elders, respect for the cultural traditions of Japan, and
lots more that I can't understand because I'm no Japanese.

Or... is "マナー" just a synonym for "礼儀"?




First, the object of `知る` must be specified with `を` particle. You have to say
「礼儀を知る」, not 「礼儀が知る」. (You can say 「Xが分かる」, though)

Dictionary says 礼儀 is courtesy, while マナー is manner.

礼儀を知らない人間 is someone who speaks too frankly to elders, someone don't express
gratitude, and someone who cannot use honorific expressions, and so on. Well,
it may be true that, in general, Japanese are said to be 礼儀正しい people. But I
think this concept itself is universal. Every human in the world, as a social
being, must retain some 礼儀. Of course there are various ways to be a 礼儀正しい
person, and some of them are seen only in a few countries, like sending 年賀状.

マナーを知らない人間 is someone who slurps while eating spaghetti, uses chopsticks
strangely, smokes in public areas, and so on. Many of them are almost
universal, but basically マナー can vary culture to culture. You may have to
learn some of them by heart when you travel abroad.

I think people who cut in lines, talk too loudly in public areas, or fail to
tip, are not aware of both マナー and 礼儀. But in general, if you want to point
out such mischief, it is far better to say "マナーを守ってください" rather than
"礼儀を知ってください", because the latter sounds very rude or offensive.

* * *

**Edit:** While 礼儀 and マナー overlap with each other greatly, I think there is a
notable difference between them. Let me try to put it in a different way. マナー
is closer to _etiquette_ as a matter of mere form or pattern, while talking
about someone's 礼儀 is usually talking about his internal sense of morality. In
a very basic sense, having 礼儀 is being able to express _thank you_ , _I'm
sorry_ and _hello_ appropriately. And I doubt if there is a language that
lacks those words.




First, the object of `知る` must be specified with `を` particle. You have to say
「礼儀を知る」, not 「礼儀が知る」. (You can say 「Xが分かる」, though)

Dictionary says 礼儀 is courtesy, while マナー is manner.

礼儀を知らない人間 is someone who speaks too frankly to elders, someone don't express
gratitude, and someone who cannot use honorific expressions, and so on. Well,
it may be true that, in general, Japanese are said to be 礼儀正しい people. But I
think this concept itself is universal. Every human in the world, as a social
being, must retain some 礼儀. Of course there are various ways to be a 礼儀正しい
person, and some of them are seen only in a few countries, like sending 年賀状.

マナーを知らない人間 is someone who slurps while eating spaghetti, uses chopsticks
strangely, smokes in public areas, and so on. Many of them are almost
universal, but basically マナー can vary culture to culture. You may have to
learn some of them by heart when you travel abroad.

I think people who cut in lines, talk too loudly in public areas, or fail to
tip, are not aware of both マナー and 礼儀. But in general, if you want to point
out such mischief, it is far better to say "マナーを守ってください" rather than
"礼儀を知ってください", because the latter sounds very rude or offensive.

* * *

**Edit:** While 礼儀 and マナー overlap with each other greatly, I think there is a
notable difference between them. Let me try to put it in a different way. マナー
is closer to _etiquette_ as a matter of mere form or pattern, while talking
about someone's 礼儀 is usually talking about his internal sense of morality. In
a very basic sense, having 礼儀 is being able to express _thank you_ , _I'm
sorry_ and _hello_ appropriately. And I doubt if there is a language that
lacks those words.

