Dutch member of parliament <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Knops" class="extiw" title="w:Raymond Knops">Raymond Knops</a> (CDA) in 2012
Clingendael Europa (The Hague)
CC BY 3.0
<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFb0QXCZlZM">ClingendaelEuropa via YouTube</a> Defensie, verkiezingsdebat Rijk achter de dijken? 29 augustus 2012, film still at  2:01 min.