 an alien type situation. He was, he loved Bud Hopkins as well and was working with Bud Hopkins and, and I knew Bud, but more so David Jacobs. And so I was talking, I went to talk to him about that. And for some reason, the conversation went to life after death. And this was a long time ago, which was weird because that's really kind of his thing, isn't it? That's, that is, is that his biggest question? And how did, is that how all this came about?