 Wow. Here's Howard Enten of CNN. Listen to this. Cut 17. Vice president is polling better against Donald Trump than Joe Biden is. Look, overall, what do we see? We see versus Biden, we see that Donald Trump is ahead by three points. But against Harris, this is nationally, we see a tie. Among independents, Donald Trump leads Joe Biden by six points. But among independents, the vice president is ahead by a point over Donald Trump. So she does better in the center of the electorate. She does better overall.