 So is he saying at the time, maybe Joe should be thinking about dropping out? Well, he did say that should be a conversation. I don't think he explicitly said Joe should drop out, but he did say something to the effect of, if this is a guy running your Fortune 500 company, would you keep him as the CEO? If he was running the family business, the answer is no. And it has been for years. And we all know it because we pay attention to it.