 I've had clients do Roth conversions and not pay any tax, not a $100,000 Roth conversion. And at other times, they pay quite a bit. It all depends on your other income levels. And long-term, it depends upon your income levels in the future, what you kind of anticipate. So there's a lot of factors that go into whether or not and how much you might want to do in a Roth conversion, either during retirement or possibly before retirement.