 I mean, Ethel didn't know what to do with me, really, because she knew that I not only wanted to produce, I wanted to do other things. So she gave me that project. And what I was able to do, here's the best example. I mean, she, Catherine Graham, okay? You know who she is, Catherine Graham, the publisher and editor of The Washington Post? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So the way that the, I'm sorry, this is for the audience, because you probably know this.