text:  I should have gotten Jonathan Newman on. Maybe I'll get him for tomorrow. Maybe. Maybe I'll get him for later today. Jonathan Newman at the Mises Institute. I had a long conversation with him earlier this week for the lunch hour show that I do. And we were talking about the difference between economic camps and there are the realists like the Mises folks, the Austrian economics folks. And then on the other side of it, there are folks who look at the world as it is.