 would roll their four fingers up and put a paper clip on the top of the index finger, the top or the side of it, I guess. But if it's in a fist position, it would be on the top. And then you would lay your thumb down over that. So it's not a fist, but it's a position still of power and of authority. And so that placement of that thumb looks much less aggressive. It looks much less like a fist. It looks much more like a, I know what I'm talking about. I have authority. I am strong without being overly aggressive.