 And in this particular instance, we're talking about a couple came to us about 60 years old or 60 years old, and they want to create $50,000 a year in retirement income. They want $50,000 a year in retirement income. And that $50,000 a year is going to provide them all the income that they're going to need for the rest of their lives. As we walk them through different proposals, we're going to focus in on a couple of different ones right now.