 right? It's as good as earning it in the stock market or in the investment world. You guarantee yourself a 22% savings if that's where your credit card balance is and that's where your rate is. And so for a lot of people, eliminating the consumer debt, some of it may have some regret attached to it. You just want it to go away anyway. But either way, it is that drain on your cash flow. And for you to be able to get to 15% of saving for retirement,