 So if you do a Roth conversion, David, you're going to want to make sure you do that after age 59 and a half, possibly, and make sure that you don't do your spouse's if you're going to withhold any taxes on it. If the name of the game is to get as much money in the Roth and don't withhold, you've got to have a different cash flow plan to cover the taxes. But note that if you do withhold taxes and you're not yet 59 and a half, it could be penalized. So a lot there, David. I hope you're working with your CFP on that. That's all the time we have for today.