 My understanding was Mayor Richard Lugar's right-hand man back in the 1970s, early 70s. I told him once that when I was in high school, the Pike High School team won the sectional and regional, and we were invited down to Mayor Lugar's office, this is 1972, to have lunch with other teams that had won regionals or sectionals, whatever. And I was telling Jim that. He said, yeah, I organized that.