text:  deductible IRA, and then we convert that to a Roth IRA. It works out the same way, right? And now they're putting $16,000 a year into an account they're not getting a tax deduction for, but it's going to grow tax-free because it's a Roth IRA and they can take distributions tax-free. They can leave it to their heirs tax-free and there's no required minimum distributions. So that got us to right there where $40,000, $55,000 roughly that we were able to move into that tax-free