text:  Here, listen to Mark Penn on CNN, how they've already got the idea about what they want. There's nothing to do with a debate. Check this out. So I think they have incredibly different objectives. I think the moderator's objective is probably to take Trump down. You can't really be a CNN moderator who, quote, let Trump off the hook. You're really going to get it. I mean, that's kind of the problem with the setup of the debate.