text:  Talking with Dr. Matthew Spaulding, Vice President of Washington Operations, Dean of the Van Andel Graduate School of Government in Hillsdale in D.C., on James Madison. You alluded to this earlier. We have Madison's notes from the convention. The debates were secret, so what we know, a lot comes from these notes of Madison. You read them in your class. It's a valuable record of what happened. So what did we eventually learn from these papers? What's the story that's told from Madison's hand?