text:  Human nature has interests. It's in the very nature of man. But there's also an upside to man as well, which is they're also capable of thinking about high, important political principles. But we must design government to take both of those into account. We can't assume that man is all good and will just do things because we have parchment barriers and that. And we shouldn't assume that they're all bad, meaning that they're kind of Hobbesian, low political actors.