text:  So you can imagine he was the guy that did that. So we'd hold him in high esteem and you were a little intimidated. But as the years went on and also as I worked for Surfer Magazine and then worked for Trans World Publications, I got to know him. And he mellowed out too. He was an intense guy because he had all these ideas and anyone who's having new ideas, people are resistant to change. So you have to fight for getting them. And that was part of Dick's genius and also part of his conflict.