text:  over the course of eight years had a conversion. Now, one can dispute the nature of this conversion. I personally think it's genuine just based on talking to him. And when I met him in 2022, he had become a defender of the most radical portions of Trump's ambitions for the federal government and U.S. elections. You know, he said that were he in Mike Pence's place in 2020, he would have attempted to overturn the election, which is an extraordinary admission. Mm-hmm.