text:  people like Natalie and her colleagues at CMS, it wasn't just the USDS folks, it was also the CMS folks, had to stand up and say, we need to continue to have a conversation about that. We're going to need to really talk it through with you. And yes, we're tech people having a discussion about policy, but that's how this is going to get to an outcome that we all want. And it does mean that you're going to, exactly as Natalie said, you have to have