text:  Robert Rosenkranz is our chairman. Our CEO is Clay O'Connor. And Leah Matthau is our chief content officer. This episode was produced by Alexis Pencrazy and Marlette Sandoval, with editorial and research by Gabriella Mayer, Andrew Foote, and Vlad Virtonin. Andrew Lipson and Max Fulton provided production support. Millie Shaw is director of audience development. And the Open to Debate team also includes Gabrielle Iannicelli, Rachel Kemp, Linda Lee, and Devin Shermer.