 yeah we never want our kids to experience that right the fear motivated us but then also i mean we're both christians and so once we began getting on that that path like it wasn't easy it felt like spiritual warfare at times like things kept on coming up coming up coming up but we realized like you know we also want to use our finances to honor god and uh steward what we've been given well yeah yeah good for you guys well done well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is