query: Should the death penalty be allowed?

positive: States should not be allowed to pursue the death penalty for a criminal that pleas guilty The State should not be allowed to pursue the death penalty for a criminal that pleas guilty. Reference: http://www.nytimes.com... On April 1, 2013 the district attorney for Arapahoe County, George Brauchler, announced that they would be seeking the death penalty for James E Holmes. Prior to this announcement, The Defense had offered to plea guilty to all charges in order to avoid the death penalty. Positions: Me: I will be arguing for this position. PRO You: Will be arguing that states should be allowed to pursue the death penalty regardless of plea. Format of the Debate: Round 1 Administrative Round please state the following: "I accept the debate and will be arguing that states should be allowed to pursue the death penalty regadless of the plea of the defendant" Round 2 Me: Opening Statement You: Opening Statement / First Rebuttal Round 3 Me: First Rebuttal / Questions to Opposing side (3 Max) You: Questions to Opposing Side (3 Max) / Answers to Questions Round 4 Me: Answers to Questions / Response to Answers You: Response to Answers / Final Arguments or Rebuttals Round 5 Me: Final Arguments or Rebuttals / Closing Statements You: Closing Statements If you have no questions simply state : "I have no questions for my opponent" Good luck!

positive: Capital punishment My OPP made sound arguments it is just that as he stated "I think that judges need to contemplate what punishment would be suitable for a particular criminal, and if the DP is seen as suitable, then so be it." Well there is no room for emotions and hot-headed behavior in the judicial system. A judge can be biased. Our system of criminal justice for all its protections is sufficiently fallible that innocent people are convicted of capital crimes. The morality of the death penalty has been hotly debated for almost a century in the U.S. The debate has swayed both ways, resulting in a moratorium on the punishment and a change in the procedure for applying the punishment. The institution of the death penalty in the United States is a fallible, unconstitutional and grossly abused appendage of the judicial system. One major argument against the death penalty highlights the fact that killing a person ends their right to due process. Once a person is dead they can no longer appeal their conviction, so even if new evidence comes forward, the person remains dead. The death penalty is the most final and unforgiving punishment imaginable. This poses problems because our system is fallible and prone to error. That is why the appeals process exists, so that errors can be corrected. In a system that prides itself on the importance of the appeals process the death penalty remains as the juggernaut of punishments. If the death penalty is cruel and it is a fallible system in which innocents have been executed, does this mean that the State if guilty of murder? Under a representative democracy there is no absolute leader that is placed above the law. Because murders have been committed and they have been done so in a systematic manner, doesn't this then mean the State has murdered? Many people would argue that the State has to be able to make mistakes, because it is a institution of humanity. If the punishment is absolute and final, shouldn't the State doing the punishing be fallible? The idea of a State that can be wrong convicting and executing its citizens is everything the framers of the Constitution stood against. People that have been proven innocent after execution: http://listverse.com... http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... (1) Carlos De Luna was executed in 1989 In February 1983, Wanda Lopez, was stabbed to death during her night shift at the gas station where she worked. After a manhunt, police found De Luna hiding under a truck. Recently released from prison, he was violating his parole by drinking in public. De Luna told police that he was innocent and he offered the name of the person who he saw at the gas station. Police ignored the fact that he did not have a drop of blood on him even though the crime scene was covered in blood. The single eyewitness confirmed to police that De Luna was the murderer after police told him he was the right guy. At trial De Luna named Carlos Hernandez as the man he saw inside the gas station, across the street from the bar where De Luna had been drinking. Hernandez and DeLuna were strikingly similar in appearance but, unlike DeLuna, Hernandez had a long history of knife attacks similar to the convenience store killing and repeatedly told friends and relatives that he had committed the murder. Friends confirmed that he was romantically linked to Lopez as well. De Luna's lawyers knew of Hernandez's criminal past but never thoroughly investigated his previous crimes. On December 7, 1989, Texas executed 27-year old Carlos De Luna. (2) Larry Griffin executed in 1995 On June 26, 1980 in St. Louis 19-year-old Quintin Moss was killed in a drive-by shooting. The conviction was based largely on the testimony from Robert Fitzgerald a white career criminal, who was at the scene at the time of the murder. He testified that he saw three black men in the car when shots were fired and that Griffin shot the victim through the window of the car with his right hand. This was Griffin's attorneys first murder trial and he did not challenge the testimony even though Griffin was left-handed. He also failed to bring forth an alibi witness who was with Griffin at the time of the murder. Griffin's fingerprints were not found on the car or the weapon all evidence against him was circumstantial. There is evidence that suggests Fitzgerald was promised a reduce sentence in exchange for his testimony. The prosecution also failed to address that there were two other witnesses who confirmed that Griffin did not commit the murder and they were able to name the three men who did. Appeals courts upheld his conviction and death sentence. Griffin was executed by lethal injection on June 21, 1995. Griffin maintained his innocence right up to his execution. In 2005, a professor University of Michigan Law School reopened the case. His investigation concluded that Griffin was innocent. (3) Leo Jones executed 1998 On May 23, 1981 in Jacksonville, FL police officer Thomas Szafranski killed when shots were fired at his police cruiser when he was stopped at an intersection. Within minutes police officers busted into Leo Jones' apartment where they found Jones and his cousin, Bobby Hammonds. Police took both men in for questioning and then charged Jones, who they claimed had confessed. Hammonds gave a statement, saying he saw Jones leave the apartment with a rifle and return after he heard some gunshots. In 1997, a retired police officer, Cleveland Smith, came forward and said the officer that arrested Jones had bragged that he beat Jones after his arrest. Smith, who described the officer as an "enforcer" testified that he once watched him get a confession from a suspect through torture. Smith claimed that he waited so long to come forward with this evidence because he wanted to secure his pension. More than a dozen people had implicated another man as the killer saying they either saw him carrying a rifle as he ran from the crime scene or heard him brag he had shot the officer. Even Florida Supreme Court Justice Leander Shaw wrote that Jones case had become "a horse of a different color". Newly discovered evidence, Shaw wrote, "casts serious doubt on Jones guilt." Shaw and one other judge voted to grant Jones a new trial. However, a five-judge majority ruled against him. Jones was executed by electric chair on March 24, 1998. These are just a few innocent people executed. Since 1976 there have been 1292 people executed...How many were innocent nobody will ever know. If one INNOCENT person is executed capital punishment is flawed and has to be abolished. This is literally life and death. "I will believe in the death penalty when you will prove to me the infallibility of human beings" --Marquis de Lafayette

positive: The death penalty The death penalty is now a painless injection that does not cause pain to the person be executed. It is a way to show criminals what will come of their cruel actions. Never being able to see you family again is a wake up call to those who are given the penalty. The last thing they know is being strapped to a chair, and then painlessly dying.

positive: death penalty Yes because it is just and prevents those rapists and terrible criminals from further harming our society

positive: The Death Penalty should be legal in the United States Thank you, Roy, for posting your final argument. 1+. Justice demands that the death penalty be legal My opponent points out that because the community favors the death penalty, the lack of a death penalty would require a dangerous non-democratic elite. However, there is another alternative: the death penalty should not be legal, so therefore the people should not supprot it. Democracy is not inherently right; such an idea would commit the is-ought fallacy. During much of America's history, the majority supported slavery; does that mean that slavery "should" have been legal? The "should" in the resolution implies that my goal in this debate is to explain why the people should stop supporting the death penalty. If my opponent is allowed to assume that with a legal death penalty comes an overhaul of the system to eliminate wasteful trials, then I am allowed to assume that the people should oppose the death penalty, and therefore the death penalty should be illegal. My opponent has no response regarding the risk of 5-4 court decisions. Additionally, regarding the "safeguards against wrongful executions," my opponent seems to want to disassemble many components of the trial process; would such revision continue to have support from the Supreme Court, given how shaky they already are? 2+. Execution saves innocent lives With my opponent's intentions of executing prisoners with little time for the Innocence Project, the 17 freed prisoners would indeed have been executed. The Innocence Project does not make this claim because they are not aware of my opponent's plans. Regarding the ten executions listed, the site claims that they are wrongful, but have yet to be confirmed by the state; this makes it rather unlikely that any of them were proper executions. My opponent incorrectly assumes that 35 is an upper bound, but this does not include the unknown number of innocents executed that were not caught by the Innocence Project, the state's revision process (which has already been sourced as imperfect), and the ten infamous cases. 35 is instead more likely a lower bound. My opponent argues that in a life sentence, there will be murders of inmates and guards; however, he has never given an example of this under maximum security. He has only used numerous examples from medium or minimum security. I was never expecting a list of deaths in maximum security prison, but we don't even have a single example from which to conclude anything. My opponent's final comparison of eight to 33 assumes that all mistaken executions are later realized, which is almost definitely false, and that those 33 prisoners were under the same security that someone my opponent would give the death penalty would be under, which is also false. My claim of "increased security" was mistaken by my opponent as "supermax," but only maximum security, which is already legal, is necessary, making this point irrelevant. Concluding this contention, switching prisoners from the death sentence to a life sentence under maximum security would not increase the murder count at all, because all of the examples of breakout murders occured under sub-maximum security. 3+. False convictions are now extremely unlikely due to modern forensics It may be more difficult for a framing or bribery to work, but it is far from impossible. I already cited a case in which it nearly succeeded; had a few fewer mistakes been made, it would have succeeded. 4+. Justice should not be compromised by a very small risk of error My opponent again compares the risk of driving to the risk of execution. Since Round 1, I've pointed out that the use of automobiles benefits everybody in the world outstrips the benefit of executing murderers "by factors easily past the billions." Anything true for one is a far cry from guaranteed for the other. This is somewhat of a subjective point, so direct debating is difficult. The cost argument I mentioned in this contention, although it is also its own separate contention, to be discussed later. 5+. Justice deters crime My opponent claims that "the death penalty is consistent with a civilized just society." However, if we look at many Western countries and states, we could also see that the lack of a death penalty is consistent with a civilized just society. This isn't relevant to whether the death penalty deters crime at all. Regarding the statistics that I cited, their key points were the conclusions of criminologists and a study by the United Nations, neither of which would have the problems that my opponent supposes. Comparisons made between states compared bordering states with similar rural and urban makeups. My quote from the FBI that "[i]n no state has the number of murders diminished after legalizing the death penalty" goes unchallenged. Constant-culture studies are not as relevant to the death penalty in the United States as a study of effects in America itself, and we apparently don't see the death penalty as a deterrent, which is all that matters. 1-. Costs Death row itself is, apparently, more expensive than the maximum security that nobody can seem to break out of. A life sentence doesn't need death row security, but only maximum security. My opponent points to things that inflate the costs, but through much of this debate, I've been using statistics from Texas, which my opponent admits has relatively inexpensive executions, making those points moot. It is true that I never made any repsonse to defend supermax security, but that is because, as I said last round, supermax security is unnecessary when maximum security provides enough security to prevent escapes and murders. Plea bargaining from the death penalty may help with the costs slightly, but by the millions? Unlikely. As for the freeing of police, they would already be freed from the death penalty trials that occupy so much of the court's time, as I have already cited. In conclusion, the death penalty is unnecessarily expensive and kills more innocent people than it saves, with benefits not worth the trouble. Thank you, RoyLatham, for this debate. Good luck with the rest of the tournament.

positive: The death penalty should exist. I will be making a follow up argument and hopefully correcting any misinformed or wrongfully written statements. I will also be removing the citation numbers on your passages when I cite your work, since we are using the same referencing method. (I want to remove confusion) "The most popular punishment for states without the death penalty that want an intense penalty would be life in prison without any possibility of parole." I agree it is, however, many criminals simply are not getting this time, prisons are becoming over populated because of bad laws like minor drug offenses being labelled with hefty time in prison, gang related crimes and theft [3] "Also, the idea of executing people that refuse psychological help is immoral at its core and is currently illegal. The insane (or mentally ill) cannot be executed, for it is unconstitutional." It is and I apologise for the way my description ended, it was not meant to be taken that way, after re-reading it I see how that perspective could be met; I meant as in, if a criminal that has murdered, raped or abused someone refuses psychological help and they are being released, (because of our TERRIBLE justice system) why shouldn't they be put up for the death penalty? I don't mean to swing the accusation stick around, but what do you think should happen to criminals that just don't get these hefty charges due to race, location or pay rate?[1] Morals / Ethics: I would suggest that ending someone's life peacefully is a better alternative to making them psychologically disabled and unable to cope in the real world if ever released after an extended period of time. I personally know two people that were in prison for only 3 years for assault, they are not the same. something in them is broken. They wake up screaming and run at the site of their name. 10+ years would destroy a person. However, giving them luxury does not fit the justice required. So we are in a period of displacement, do we... treat them well in an isolated environment even though it is only preventing them from doing crimes and not teaching them a lesson... it's not justice, do what is just and damage them entirely psychologically, do we end their life peacefully. Basically, are we preparing them for life in the real world, or are we enforcing and breaking them until they die? If they go back into society, damaging them is only going to lead them back to a lifestyle they were comfortable with. Overpopulation: There is currently a serious problem of overpopulation within the prisons, leading to a lack of safety for security and a risk of rioting, and possibly, a mass escape.[2] "By saying that these prisoners are able to live a happy life with luxury is a very big exaggeration." 'A prison officer who has worked at Cardiff for 15 years said last week that inmates were simply sitting in their cells watching snooker on television or playing computer games.' [4] 'The death penalty is not the only way to keep them from recommitting, and from the harms of the death penalty as I stated above, we simply cannot allow it.' Prison sentences and the death penalty does not deter crime rates[5]. The death penalty is a viable option for people who are at risk to other people, and security guards. I am not disputing that life in prison would sound better than the death penalty... if they couldn't find loop holes, but there are crafty lawyers out there.[6] I apologise if my argument seems over the place, it's very late and I am very tired. I will construct my stance more accurately in the next round. In summary so far: The death penalty appears to be a viable option, the price isn't the prisons fault, nor is it the expense of the poisons used, but the court cases that take place, regardless of being on death row or not. The court cases cost the government A LOT of money anyway. I have given evidence suggesting my claims were in deed accurate. prisons are becoming over populated, prisoners are either getting no punishment or complete punishment. There is no balance. This doesn't mean the death penalty is a viable option, however for prisoners getting released, being broken or being the same is not going to help rehabilitate society. The death penalty should be in place for people we can't have in society anymore. I have shown evidence of cases where people do use loop holes eventually. The death penalty is a useful tool. References: http://www.heraldnet.com... [1] http://www.abc.net.au... [2] http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com... [3] http://www.telegraph.co.uk... [4] http://www.theguardian.com...[5] http://www.telegraph.co.uk...[6]

positive: Death penalty "Lol you argue what is happening now. Also it was implied the current system is used in this debate." My opponent has failed to explain why any kind of death penalty should be abolished. My opponent did not specify before the debate started that the topic of death penalty was only limited to its current use in the United States. My opponent wishes to make known of his intentions AFTER the debate started. I find this to be an irresponsible condition opposed upon me by my opponent because I accepted this debate only on the conditions of which were supplied at the time of acceptance. At the time, I was accepting the position of 'Pro' for A death penalty. Notice how neither the title of the debate nor anything written in the comments section before the debate started includes anything specific that says "Resolved: The current death penalty system instituted in the United States should be abolished". I am within my bounds to be arguing for a death penalty, not THE death penalty. In this case, I would like to supply some definitions: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Death - a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life [1] Penalty - 1. A legal sentence. 2. A punishment for violating rules of procedure. [2] Punish - to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault: to punish a criminal. [3] Voluntary - done, made, brought about, undertaken, etc., of one's own accord or by free choice: a voluntary contribution. [4] Recidivism - the act of a person repeating an undesirable behavior after they have either experienced negative consequences of that behavior, or have been treated or trained to extinguish that behavior. [6] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The definition of a death penalty can be construed from the definitions above as a legal sentence subjecting a person to death. My stance on the subject of a death penalty is that a death penalty should remain in the United States, but it should be entirely different than the current death penalty. A decision to undergo the death penalty should be a voluntary choice made by a convict who would have the option of life in prison or death. I have no doubt that a portion of criminals sentenced to life in prison would rather opt for the death penalty than a life sentence. This is evident by the fact that a large number of murder-suicides occur in the United States in which after a person commits murder, they take their own life. The source and evidence for this argument is listed in the first round of the debate. R1: Cost "SO your "the defendant chooses" is false. The judge in the end chooses, defendant just gets to plea to try to weaken the sentence." It is most definitely not false. In a voluntary death penalty, the defendant WOULD be able to choose. Remember, the argument is not about the current US death penalty, but is about A death penalty. So it is the trial itself under the DP that is expensive. That is what I have said all along. A voluntary death penalty would eliminate the bulk of the cost that it takes to execute a criminal because the legal appeals process which costs the most money would be eliminated. The appeals process exists because convicts who are fighting the state do not want to receive the death penalty. The people who would fight the death penalty in the future would not be sentenced to the death penalty in a voluntary death penalty, they would be sentenced to life in prison, therefore eliminating the appeals process in death penalties that costs the most amount of money in the current death penalty in the US. Also you concede that the DP costs more. I stated that the current death penalty costs more. A voluntary death penalty would cost so much less than the current death penalty, and would cost less than life in prison simply because the costs for food, health and shelter would amount to $0 after the criminal is executed. The states would actually save $1.5 million in living costs per convict if the convict opts for the voluntary death penalty over life in prison [5]. R2: The death penalty does not deter crime. The act of deterring crime is not the primary purpose of creating and enforcing rules for punishing lawbreakers. Fantastic. Then if deterrence isn't a major issue in deterring crime, then why are you debating that the death penalty doesn't deter crime if any other form of punishment isn't made to deter crime either? If the sole purpose of rules of law aren't even made to deter crime, you have just defeated your own argument. You make it seem that deterrence is a negligible issue. R3: The DP infringes international law. I agree with your statements on the current death penalty. But not all death penalties would violate this law. A voluntary death penalty would allow a convict to have more personal liberties than the current death penalty and a convict would also have the right to life or death based on his choice. R4: Risk of executing innocents I fail to see how an innocent person would want to opt for death under a voluntary death penalty. Even so, it's a person's right to life or death and a government shouldn't be infringing on 'international law' that you cite in this debate because it would infringe on liberty of the person to govern their own body. R5: Death sentences are racist and unfair "Lol you argue what is happening now. Also it was implied the current system is used in this debate." Like I said above, I am arguing for A death penalty, not the current death penalty. You did not specify that as a condition of the debate when I accepted the debate. Therefore you MUST convince the voters that the United States would be better off without a death penalty, and I am convincing the voters that the United States would be better with A death penalty. Notice that the topic is simply 'Death Penalty' and that you did not provide any additional information to what your resolution was for the debate. Therefore I am obligated to argue within my bounds, and my bounds are that I am arguing for a Death Penalty in the United States. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In conclusion, the United States would be better off with a voluntary death penalty than without one at all. - It would be cheaper than life imprisonment by saving 1.5 million dollars per inmate. - It would give the convict the right to make a decision on their continuation of life. - It would eliminate the possibility of the criminal from being released back into society and committing recidivism. Voters: Because the debate resolution later admitted by my opponent was not provided at the beginning of the debate, I strongly urge you to base your decision on who convinced you more on the argument that a death penalty of some kind is better or worse than any kind of death penalty at all. I hope that after reviewing all of the debate, you make the right decision and vote Pro! :) Sources: 1. http://www.merriam-webster.com... 2. http://en.wiktionary.org... 3. http://dictionary.reference.com... 4. http://dictionary.reference.com... 5. http://www.heartsandminds.org... 6. http://en.wikipedia.org...

positive: The Death Penalty should be legal in the United States 1-. The death penalty is extremely expensive to implement Con main argument so far is cost. Criminal justice is always expensive, but citizens think justice makes it worthwhile to prosecute serious crimes despite the cost. We should be willing to pay what it takes to obtain justice. Still, the claim that life sentences are cheaper is false. There are three elements of cost involved with a death penalty: 1. The court costs properly associated with extra scrutiny The claimed savings supposes that a sentence of life imprisonment without possibility of parole can be imposed without extra scrutiny. In fact, if there is any savings at all, it is small. Only about 6% of the convictions overturned by the Innocence Project involved death row inmates. [4] They are apply a high level of scrutiny to crimes that would include life without parole. Moreover, inmates convicted of life without parole are certainly going to want to file every appeal possible to get the sentence reduced, and the government is obliged to pay the costs of the prosecution and the defense in those cases. The appeals in such case can go on for the life of the inmate. 2. The court costs incurred unreasonably in defending the laws that permit execution Much of the current costs of pursuing he death penalty involves challenges to the death penalty itself. Courts eager to overturn the death penalty are allowing appeals on such grounds as the drug used for the lethal injection must be approved by the Food and Drug Administration. [8. http://www.truth-out.org...] The wording of the present resolution eliminates challenges to the death penalty itself, which can accomplished by legislation. 3. The costs of confining inmates on death row rather than in ordinary maximum security The main costs are actually in housing the inmates on death row rather than in ordinary maximum security confinement. Death row mainly involves a higher level of security, and that includes single-occupant cells rather than two-inmate cells. The premise of the cost savings is that murderers sentenced to life imprisonment rather than execution are safer, and hence may be mixed with the general inmate population. There are no grounds for that assumption. The convicted killer has a free pass to kill inmates or guards, or to escape and kill civilians. No extra penalty is available to deter such action, and data [5] shows there is serious threat. Con has offered as a solution to the problem of "free pass" killings is that extra-high security confinement be used to prevent it. That's exactly the cost that eliminating the death penalty is alleged to save. California is used as an example of the high costs. Virtually no one has been executed in California, due to obstructions sustained by California Courts. Consequently, nearly all inmates are kept in high security until they die of natural causes. Actually carrying out executions reduces those costs substantially. Ohio, for example, as much lower costs because they actually perform executions. A California official said, “They are much more willing to exercise their capital punishment system [in Ohio] than California, thus alleviating one of the pressures that our state wrestles with,” [9. http://www.bloomberg.com... ] The net result is a minor cost increase is suffered by extra scrutiny, but very substantial savings are obtained by not having to maintain the inmate in maximum security for a lifetime. The death penalty saves money. 1+. Justice demands that the death penalty be legal I cited the case of parents executed in front of their children by a contract killer, and asked if justice demand the death penalty. Con brushed aside the question and said that being confined for life was punishment enough. Well, who gets to ultimately decide what is adequate? Juries decide when justice demands the death penalty. [10. http://abcnews.go.com...] In a democracy, the public ought to decide. About two-thirds of the states have the death penalty. As to life being worse, even serial killers are willing to plea bargain to get rid of the possibility of a death sentence. Neither the public nor the killers are confused about the issue. 2+. Execution saves innocent lives Con has not presented a single case of an innocent person being freed. I carefully spelled out why the 17 cases were people who would not necessarily have been executed, and even the Innocence Project itself makes no claim of lives saved. Even though no cases of wrongful executions are established, I granted that there were likely a few. Con cites the page I referenced as having no killings by escapees after 1989. There are, however, killing of guards and inmates after that date, and those count as unnecessary deaths. However, I had noted that the page was an incomplete list. A web search reveals many recent cases. in 2008 an escape killed his wife and child http://www.denverpost.com... in 1997 an escapee killed his wife http://www.sacbee.com... in 2010, two escaped murderers killed an elderly couple http://www.blogforarizona.com... in 1999 a convicted murder killed a prison guard http://amarillo.com... I found eight additional cases of convicted murderers who escaped being recaptured before they killed again. Con's claim that modern technology precludes escape is wrong. No one keeps a careful list, so there are probably many more lives lost in avoiding executions. 3+. False convictions are now extremely unlikely due to modern forensics Con cites one case of a conviction that was overturned under scrutiny and no recent cases of false executions. Better forensics does not reduce the number of murderers caught and subject to execution. I eliminates false convictions, but DNA provides solid evidence to convict many others who would have gone free in past times. 4+. Justice should not be compromised by a very small risk of error Con claims that automobiles provide a benefit in return for the 30,000 innocent lives lost, but he fails to see a benefit to executions. A primary benefit is that justice is done, but it also saves the lives of those the convicted would subsequently kill, it deters murder particularly by the incarcerated, it saves substantial amounts of money on holding murderers for life, and plea bargains save money, solve cases, and provide closure to victims families. 5+. Justice deters crime Con argues that it is Japanese culture that produces their low crime rate, not their use of the death penalty. But what is it about the culture that lowers crime rates? I don't see what racial minorities have to do with it. It isn't the death penalty by itself, but rather that the society as a whole cares a great deal about providing justice, and justice in proportion to the seriousness of the offense. Con points out that foreigners in Japan commit more crimes. Indeed, foreigners are unlikely to come from a culture so concerned with administering true justice, so they are more likely believe they can get away with commiting a serious crime. 6+. The death penalty supports plea bargaining Con argues plea bargaining can also occur under a life sentence. Right, "Plead guilty and we will give you a Kindle in your life sentence without parole. Otherwise go to trial and risk losing the Kindle." The prospect of death is more compelling. The leverage is so great that it alone is reason enough for having a death penalty. It works even if the death penalty is rarely carried out, because the downside to the felon is so great.

positive: The Death Penalty should be Abolished The death penalty is necessary, because some people are so vile they can never be in contact with society without harming it in some way. Truly evil people do exist and they harm others - sometimes killing or ruining lives through their actions. This is not something that should be acceptable or allowed to continue without punishment to deter others with a like mentality.

positive: The United States should Abolish the Death Penalty "Is it really just bare assertions? IS that not how philosophy woks?" A. You made a claim the death penalty works to deter crime using a quote, but didn't cite a source so we could review the study, therefore we can disregard that, since you did not give us a chance to check its validity. "If just a jail time deters people, what more would death penalty?" A. I have no clue what you really mean there, but you were making a point that having the death penalty increases the rate at which violent criminals are found and arrested which is completely asinine itself and then gave no evidence for this. Well your source is 46 pages long, I won't bother. However, I think my evidence that the death penalty does not work as a deterrent is enough. "...affects the cop, and in turn would also affect possible criminals. I do not agree with the rational choice theory because if it was true, then the evidence would show that states with the death penalty have lower homicide rates. "Do you have evidence of so? If you are allowed to ask for evidence, then I should be allowed to, too. Also, if such evidences are available, I'd like to refute your second part." A. I did give you evidence, I gave you a graph (or a link to it) that shows states with the death penalty actually have higher murder rates every year for the last 25 years, so clearly it has not been very effective as a deterrent, but I could give you more. The opinions of top criminologists: A study conducted by Michael Radelet and Traci Lacock surveyed some top criminologists in the country, criminologists who won the Sutherland award at the American Society of Criminology, and and presidents of the society since 1997. The study found that when asked if they believe the death penalty is a deterrent, 88% of them said no, while only 5% said yes, with 7% being indifferent. What we can conclude from this is some of the best criminologists in the country actually believe the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent. But it gets worse, when asked if they thought there was good empirical evidence to support it is a deterrent... 94% said no, so even many criminologists who believe the death penalty works as a deterrent agree there is not much evidence to support that claim. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... The opinions of police chiefs: In a 2009 study, police chiefs in the country were surveyed on if they believe the death penalty works as a deterrent, 37% said yes, while 48% said no. So both criminologists and police chiefs agree, no it does not work as a deterrent. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... North Carolina empirical evidence: No one has been executed in North Carolina since 2006, and the last death penalty sentence was given in 2012. However, since execution has stopped, state murder rates have declined. If cons argument was true then murder rates would have went up. Also, another comment on the rational theory thing earlier, most people given the death penalty do it "...in the heat of passion, while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or while suffering from mental illness." So the idea that all people considering homicide think rationally is asinine. http://nccadp.org... I could have even more at the request of con. "False. If evidences are available, then we're can't give all the credits to the death penalty, but we can still give partial credits to death penalty. The fact is murder rates did decrease coincidentally after death penalty was introduced." A. No but come on man, if that was true, states with the death penalty would have decreased in homicide rates, while states without it would have remained stagnant. But this just isn't true. Since all states declined, and states without the death penalty actually declined at a faster rate, we know this is false. If the death penalty deterred homicide, then those states would have decreased at a faster rate, but they decreased at a slower rate. "But from the graph, you can see that death penalty did drop! It had lower rates because it always had lower rates." A. But pal if what your saying had any validity, then since the death penalty deters crime better than life sentences, than those states would have dropped faster, but they dropped slower, and the margin of higher homicide in those states actually grew. What we understand from this is that whatever caused crimes to decrease was not the death penalty, as that would have led to a very high decrease with your logic, but it was actually a slower rate than states without the death penalty. "As for retribution not justifying the lives of innocent people, I'd like to use your own words against you." A. Me making that point was mostly me just saying that if it is for retribution but sometimes innocent people get killed it is clearly counter productive. If you are trying to say that innocent people getting killed with the death penalty, then it's wrong, I gave evidence for that. "Accidentally executing innocent people will be rebutted in a whole different header." A. OOoohhhhhhh scary. To clarify there has been about 23 people that have been proven to be innocent, but there is most likely much more that slipped through the cracks, as hundreds have been exonerated. "How does it cost more? Where does the cost go to? Why does it cost more? I said to elaborate more on why it cost more the beginning of my round... Without any evidence all I can say is saying the death penalty costs u to 5 times more." A. Here they pretend like I gave no evidence that the death penalty costs more, which is 100% inaccurate. But I will do it again. First let me explain why a capital punishment case costs more, in a capital punishment case: two attorneys are required paid at a higher price and a team of legal experts, extra payments to jurors, the expense of appeals and sentencing hearings, and the cost to house people convicted, where prisoners much actually stay in special units that cost more for extra security, some times for decades. So this is why the death penalty costs more, now the numbers again. http://nccadp.org... The death penalty costs between $2,000,000 to $5,000,000 in tax revenue for each death penalty case, for the reasons I stated, while an average life sentence of 40 years in prison costs $1,000,000-$1,250,000. http://okcadp.org... So yes it does cost more. "Furthermore, pro has failed to rebut my point on how the state has the right to take away lives, it would mean that he doesn't oppose this idea." A. Well if the death penalty is in practice, (which I don't agree with) then it should be at a state level. However this is irrelevant because we are arguing over is the death penalty a good idea as it is practiced in the U.S today. Look I already gave you empirical and logical evidence as to why murder rates go down with our without the death penalty, and recent history shows they actually decrease much faster without the death penalty, as the margin between states with the death penalty homicide rates and ones without has actually grew larger from 1990 to 2014. So what my opponent says at the end is fundamentally flawed, as his evidence is simply when the death penalty started murder rates decreased in those states, but from the fact that this trend went on in states with and without the death penalty we can conclude this was not due to the death penalty. Whether the death penalty is evil or not is subjective.

positive: The Death Penalty should be abolished I'll preface this with two things: One, this is my first debate, so I apologize in advance if I have some stylistic things that need to be worked out. Two, I'm in the middle of my finals, so I apologize again if my responses take longer than you would like. Now to refuting your arguments. The Death Penalty - Murder is defined as "Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law." As such the act of killing some one with the death penalty is not murder by definition because the government does not recognize it as such. Additionally, the death penalty has been practiced throughout history, and is even advocated in the Bible repeatedly in acts such as stoning children who act against their parents, or any other number of sinners. You said that it is not the government's place to murder people without war, so then is it nor morally reprehensible if there is a war? Then we must look at what war is? It is simply when a country believes it has been wronged by another entity, as such, if a country believes some entity, be it another state, a terrorist faction, or a person, is of sufficient threat to its citizens it has the right then to fight back and kill. Is that not essentially what the death penalty is? - You said"Nobody is afriad of the death penalty so it is ineffective. People are afriad of prison. You never hear, "I would but I don't want to get the death penalty." You do hear, "I would. I don't want to go to jail."" Is it not redundant to say that it is the status quo for humans to not wish to die. As such you don't hear people say "I don't want to get the death penalty" because everyone knows that no one wants to die. In effect, I would just have to generally disagree with you on this point, crimes by and large are not committed on the scale that would merit the possibility of capital punishment because while people are not so afraid of going to jail, they are afraid of the potentiality of being put to death. - "It kills people instead of allowing them to pay for their crimes." Is killing them not forcing them to pay for their crimes? - "The appeal process is too great for a death penalty person. They can get acquitted any time wrongfully." This is true for many criminals. A prisoner in jail has nothing better to do than research case law, and look for reasons that they should be allowed another appeal and eventually get themselves acquitted. They can not do this if they are dead. - "Capital punishment is cruel and unusual... It is destroying American values" Capital punishment is not cruel and unusual, every effort has been taken to see to it that the prisoner in question does not feel any pain in their passing, which is much more a service than they probably gave to their victims. In fact, going back in time, a quick painless death came about with the invention of the guillotine, which arguably is much better than the lethal injection with regards to quick, painless death. - "The death penalty is used disproportionately against the poor, who cannot afford expensive legal counsel, as well as racial, ethnic and religious minorities." While this statement may appear to have some substance, it can not be taken at face value. Unfortunate as it may be, the percentages of people within the U.S. prison system are in the majority for "the poor,...racial, ethnic, and religious minorities." However, whether or not the prison system as a whole is bias, is a topic for another debate. - "The death penalty is applied arbitrarily and inconsistently." I'd like you to expand on this if you can, because with a statement this vague I don't know how to defend my position against it. If you are speaking about the cases in which it is used, then yes, it may very well vary. However this is because the states are allowed to determine whether or not capital punishment is acceptable, and if it is, under what scenarios. This is an example of the states deciding what coincides with the belief systems and the needs of its residents. This is a good thing because it allows the citizens to dictate the world they live in. - "Wrongly convicted, innocent people have received death penalty sentences, and tragically, were killed by the state. People are released from jail constantly for crimes they did not commit. Imagine if you were suddenly murdered for a crime you did not commit." While this does happen, such cases are in the minority, and as you stated earlier, the person in question has many opportunities for appeal, as such you would not be "suddenly murdered for a crime you didn't commit," there is nothing sudden about the death penalty. - "A rehabilitated criminal can make a morally valuable contribution to society." This is by and large not true, very few convicted felons are able to re-adapt to society, few can get jobs worth having, and as such most return to lives of crime. - "Financial costs to taxpayers of capital punishment is several times that of keeping someone in prison for life." While this is true, it is not the actual act of capital punishment, but rather the court fees for all of the additional litigation, which as i said before may be present in a non-capital court case. - "The endless appeals and required additional procedures clog our court system and make speedy trials impossible as well." I think I've touched on this enough. However, the trials are held at the same pace as any trial, and as such the right to a speedy trial is no more infringed upon an alleged murderer than a person convicted of speeding. - "We as a society have to move away from the "eye for an eye" revenge mentality if civilization is to advance." Wasn't "an eye for an eye" one of the first rules set down in Hammurabi's code which was one of the stepping stones for civilization to begin to advance because we had law? Although yes we do need to advance, beyond an eye for an eye, this does not detract from the potential benefit of ridding the world of a mass murderer, or rapist or what have you. - "It sends the wrong message: why kill people who kill people to show killing is wrong. Should we rape people who rape people? ... Should we rape people who rape people? No lesson is learned." This simply does not make sense, it is fallacious logic. It is not a Gov does this to Person X because Person X did this to Citizen Y. Rather it is more government gets rid of Person X because they did this ti Citizen Y and it is believed that they have the potential to do said act again and it is more beneficial for the community to be rid of Person X. The way our laws are set up in no way reflect the scenarios you described. Death is just another level of separation between the public masses and the criminal; albeit a permanent one. - "Other countries (especially in Europe) would have a more favorable image of America. And we could have more help in our military and economic ventures." Honestly I think our stance on the death penalty is a low priority to other countries. What I think they are more concerned about is the "murdering" of Iraqis by American troops in the scenario you said earlier would make killing acceptable. If that is so, why are they so angry about our invasions and war? - "Most jury members ... murderers roam free." Again partially true, jury members are reluctant to convict if it means the person will receive the death penalty, but then again we don't want them to feel comfortable sending some one to their death, the death penalty makes them treat the case that much more seriously. Also there are usually lesser charges brought against the defendant that the jurors could still find him/her guilty on, without the death penalty. - "The prisoner's family ... appeals process." Yes, and isn't it horrible how much they must grieve... a strange parallel between them and the victim's family. Only it was not the victim who brought the prisoners family into a situation that would cause them pain.

positive: death penalty To explain the idiotic forfeit, my mom stole my computer which forced me to forfeit. Sorry about that. Give my opponent the conduct point. 1st, just because most Americans are pro-death penalty does not mean that we should do what they say. 139 countries having abolished it after using capital punishment for 10 or more years compared to 58 nations actively using it today. Just because the people agree with something does not mean it should be allowed! This is just an example which does not have to be true: If the majority of the people think that mosques should not be allowed to be built in all circumstances, does it make what they said right? This is a huge problem! People assuming that whatever the majority of the people believe, it's always right and that we should do what they say. 2nd of all, the concept that it deters crime does not account for many things. How does capital punishment save lives? Is my opponent honestly saying that because the USA allows death penalties that it prevents crime? Crime is the greatest in the USA even though the USA have the death penalty and executed the 5th most people in the world recently. Many people are not affected by the death penalty as to see that it depends on what kind of crimes they are but many people would rather be able to gain money, drugs, revenge, or something addicting by doing a crime even though of the risks. They don't think of the consequences but they just do it without thinking or considering the death penalty. Just because all of the people that you have said believes that the death penalty deters crime can not beat back the 87% of expert criminologists who say that the death penalty does not help deter crime at all and the 88% of the top criminologists who say that the abolition of the death penalty would not have any significant effect on crime rates. Also For 2010, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.6, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 2.9. Also all of the top 10 states with crime all have the death penalty. It's also not biased in the size of the state rather per 100,000 people. In 2008, 14 states without capital punishment were either at or below the national homicide rates. So all of your supposed "facts" in this contention are all wrong because they can't beat back all of these points that I have been showing to you. Also there can be and there has been wrongful executions. As many as 39 people in the U.S. have been executed from 1992 to 2004 because of the death penalty. 138 death row defendants were released since 1973 because of wrongful convictions and withheld papers. That is extremely unfair because of costing one's life just because of the death penalty. Even being in jail because of a misjudgement is better than being executed in the case of a misjudgement. Plus the death penalty is racially biased. 77% of death row defendants are executed for killing a white person but half of the victims are black. . I have so many more points I would like to make and also go into detail about many of them but I have to move on to the other contentions. 3rd of all, the death penalty doesn't actually give any closure to victim families. Sure, the victim's families may hate the defendants and want to hurt them but the death penalty doesn't actually help them feel any better. Let's take a look at Achilles when he lost his best friend Patroclus in the Trojan War. He was dissatisfied with all of the slaughtering of the Trojans and the torturing and killing of the killer Hector but was still empty until the day that he wept for an entire night with the killer's father. Sure, loss of friends and family members will always be a sad thing but the killing of the murderer doesn't necessarily put back what the people close to that victim have lost. The families will never totally recover and revenge by the death penalty is from the government is not going to put an "ending chapter to this mess". I also ask my opponent to tell me how many murderers in jail until they die have escaped and haunted the family. Also about releasing killers, would you give me some facts please? I have made my point that the death penalty has no significant effect and will never put an "ending chapter to this mess" on the people close to the murdered person. 4th of all, is justice served if he has to live in jail for the rest of his life? Yes! Justice is not better served by death penalty than living in jail for the rest of your life. Death is getting executed but life in jail till death is everyday torture knowing you will live the rest of your life in a cell. I would say life in jail till death serves justice better than the death penalty because if you die, you die. No more suffering, pain, hardships. None of the bad things or good things. But life in a prison cell until death is torture for many years to come. 5th of all, if God doesn't tell us to do the death penalty why should we do it. The fist two verses are from the Old Testament which is specifically God the Father wanted the Israelites to use capital punishment because there was no other way to do it. If you disagree with that statement, I bet you $10 (not $10,000 like Romney but $10 like Gingrich) thats you won't be able to find another way to punish a murder or death that is not capital punishment during their time which is an estimated to be after Ahmose and before Assyrians and Babylonians take over Israel and Judah. Also few people would use the capital punushment as the Old Testament says such as doing work on the Sabbath, false prophecy or making false statements about a woman's virginity. In the 3rd verse, it clearly doesn't mean a literal meaning. It means that Christians must not use their freedom from the Old Testament religious Law as an excuse to violate the civil law. We must obey civil authority, which is instituted by God, because of fear of punishment as well as conscience. The principles set forth by Jesus and the apostles restrict punishment to only that which is necessary to protect society and rather than giving. Jesus taught great principles for us to apply in our lives, rather than specific laws. Thus, his failure to specifically condemn slavery, capital punishment and many other evils should not be interpreted as approval of capital punishment. I see the mercy He showed to the woman caught in adultery as His rejection of capital punishment. However, Jesus never specifically repudiated capital punishment. Even if you want to go by the Old Testament which is totally irrelevant, the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:13 says "Though shall not kill." The original Hebrew word ratsach, translated as "kill" or "murder" could refer to either killing in general or unlawful killing (murder). This is only if you want to argure the irrelevant way. 6th of all, "it is constitutional" is not a good reason. The Constitution has been changed so much and is always debated about if a part is correct or not. Just because our current law says that doesn't mean that it's right. If a country's "constitution" says that slavery is allowed, is that right? There are many flaws in every country's laws and this is one of them. 7th of all, the death penalty costs and diverts much more resources from genuine crime control and more expensive than alternative sentences. Death penalty is not at all cheap but expensive. The death penalty does cost a lot and may be more than life in jail but it depends on the time. Death penalty costs a whole lot on a one time event, life in jail costs a little every year so that is why death penalty is more expensive because it's a one time event.I have negated all of my opponent's contentions and have made my own points in the crowded rebuttal of my 2nd contention. Vote Con! My sources are in the comments section because lack of space.

positive: We should redo the death penalty. I want to say thank you Amphia for your willingness to continued to do this debate. You made some very good points. And I'm more than happy to go deeper on this propose discussion. Now of course my proposal for a re-do of the death penalty will be limited. I don't think you fully understand this. But that's fine i will explain this further. You may very well disagree regardless. I will defend what I'm proposing. Trail cost "But how do you define "know for sure"? In the case of mass shootings, it"s going to be pretty obvious who did it". I think you answer your own question to this. Oh how do you know for sure? Because it will be" obvious who did it in cases of mass shootings. This re-do of the death penalty will ONLY target these cases not much else. And yes it will TARGET children being tortured too. I will admit in those cases it will take some time, just like right now. But after the case, and these person or persons are convicted of these crimes. Then it will be death for them. No waiting around just a week or two after being convicted. So, it will still be saving in the long run. I understand in children being tortured cases it will take a little longer. It will take 2 or 4 years. But after that. It will be a fast sentence. Honestly, i don't not know why they should stay alive in jail for who ever knows how long. Just because it morally wrong. They Actually did the morally wrong thing by torturing their children or somebody elses. You still give no answer why they should stay alive in jail. It doesn't add up, for them to stay in jail for the rest of there lives. It will still cost money to feed them, give them medical attention and give them medication. It still add millions of dollars to keep them alive in the long haul. Doesn't make sense to.... Mass murder "Serial killers like the Zodiac is still out" Yeah okay. Justice can't prosecute if they don't have that person. Not everyone going to get caught, unfortunately. But these cases are rare. Just like this guy I going to bring up "He"s blamed for 12 killings, 45 rapes " and authorities don"t know who he is" but "Investigators have matched the East Area Rapist's DNA".(10) http://wgno.com... So, this mean when and if they find this guy. The evidence will be overwhelming, and will not have a problem getting a conviction. But you did bring up another good point. In cases of a Serial killers, it will take longer than a two week period. It may take a year or two. But after they find these Serial killers guilty. It will not be a problem to sentence them to death within a two week time period. You said this "You"re going to let the person walk?" the answer is of course not. In Serial killers cases it may take some time. But when the court has this person it will wait for a trail. And it will wait for the evidence to grow. Then it will wait on what the jurors decide. So, yes it could a little time just like now. But in this re-do the death penalty it will not have any Appeals. Appeals just cost too much. And in my proposal we are looking for the mass shootings as the main concern here. "Black people are more likely to be accused and jailed for crimes they did not commit" Again in my propose new system it not after the everyday crime. It only after the mass shooting, serial killers and children being tortured. "56 out of 97" were white who committed mass shootings. That a 57% white people doing these mass shootings (11) https://www.statista.com... Another pretty interesting stat 'In approximately 90 percent of all homicides the killer and victim are from the same race".(12) https://www.psychologytoday.com... No my system will not end racism. Better education will one day hopefully end racism. But in regards to what i actually meant. The new proposal for the death penalty is only in three main categories. And i already mention what they are. So, really blacks would be in the minorities in these three categories. Now for everyday crime yeah blacks would be very high same with Latino. But my proposal only cover mass shootings, serial killers and children being tortured to death. "wrongfully convicted people who don"t get a chance to appeal" Again my system only target three main area. And that's it. It not for every crime. Heck it not even going to cover somebody murdering one another. And that what happen in my cases dealing with just one murder or even two murders. My system is for more serious crimes three people being killed or higher. "Not humane to let them stay in jail" They proof Solitary Confinement in prisons cause more psychology problem. According to Craig Haney who wrote an article on "Mental health issues in long-term solitary and "supermax" confinement" he added "There are few if any forms of imprisonment that appear to produce so much psychological trauma and in which so many symptoms psychopathology are manifested."(13) page 125http://journals.sagepub.com... a lot of other proof that it causes more harm. You said "maybe there is hope for them" they is no hope for the criminals I'm referring too. Not the mass murdered and serial killers. I think you getting them confused. Acting like killing 10 or more people is okay, and let them just sit in jail for the rest of they days." "WHO ARE YOU TO TELL SOMEONE WHETHER THEIR LIFE IS WORTH LIVIN OR NOT" As for me i'm just telling society another good option on dealing with these horrible people. You making me look like I'm the bad person here. And reality it just the opposite. They committed these horrible crimes not me. And now you want the taxpayers to pay for there every need for the rest of there lives. There lives are worthless the second they started killing 5 to 20 people. If they wanted to die they would had done it. Some try, but couldn't. And if they just committed suicide that would be whatever. But when you bring multiple of others, that's totally different. "Lethal injection becomes inhumane when you use it kill someone. Why is that? Because it"s murder." it not murder. We wouldn't be sitting here doing this if they hadn't done something so extreme. It there doing. Not the government fault nor society. We'll maybe to a degree. But still they killed 5 or more people, something else have to be done. Instead of them just living life up toward there 70's to 80's. Lethal injection is the safer way. Unless you want to shot them 8n the head. But i rather use the Lethal injection. Less gruesome. You may be right, the government probably wouldn't give back to the people who really need it. But they could. Plus there are many other things the government could spend on while saving in my proposal system. Like schools, infrastructure, hospital, there are many. Shouldn't be spend on these murdered who killed so many people. "Your system would still need long trials in the cases of mass murders and the torturing of children." i will give you the long trail part for some of these cases. But not the sentencing. Because they are sentence, it would only be a week or two before putting them to the death penalty. Another thing that doesn't add up. It not just the homeless, who have a hard time getting food it regular people too. But the biggest thing is medication and medical attention. These murdered get pills every day and get medical treatment for free. While the poor or regular people like you and me have to paid for our medication or medical treatment. Like i said before in my round 2. It cost the taxpayers an average of 31k a year or higher for these convicted killers. Another 168k or higher just to house these murdered. Most of these murdered live while beyond 20 to 50 years in prison. So add all of this, it well over 4 millions. I have more to say, but it will be continue in the comment area

positive: Death Penalty In response to Pro"s argument, I will present two main points that will potentially negate the idea that the death penalty should be legal. First I will talk of the death penalty"s effectiveness and lastly my main opinion on why we should get rid of the death penalty all together. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First off, I will address the common argument for supporting the death penalty. Some people tend to believe that the death penalty is effective in lowering crime rates, but I will prove why this is wrong. Although crime rates overall have been decreasing, it has no concrete relation to the use of the death penalty. According to FBI statistics from 2012 to 2013, the number of violent crimes had decreased by 4.4 percent (1). While this is an amazing thing for our country, the crime rates have decreased everywhere, even in states without the death penalty. Graph-> http://s3.amazonaws.com... (I am not sure if this link will show up since my others didn't, but it just shows the 15 states without the death penalty, and the 35 states with it). This map of the U.S. shows us that a large majority of the states have legalized the death penalty. So, according to many peoples" arguments, these states should have lower crime rates, right? This isn't so. According to an article in the Huffington Post based on statistics gathered from the FBI, 8 of the top 10 most dangerous states in the U.S. are all states that have legalized the death penalty, with the highest being Tennessee at an average of 643.6 violent crimes per 100,000 people (2). Also, according to another article, the top 2 safest states in the U.S. are both states without the death penalty (3). Now let"s look take a look at crime rates in other countries without the death penalty as well, more specifically, our neighbor Canada. When looking at the comparison of crime rates between Canada and the U.S., a startling thing jumps out at you, Canada"s crime rates are significantly lower. The United States" crime levels are 43% higher, the murder rate is 23 times more, the rape rate is 16 times more, and so on (4). While this doesn't truly prove that having no death penalty is more effective, it does negate the need for a death penalty at all. So, if the death penalty isn't helping lower crime rates (by scaring people into refraining from violent acts), then why do most people believe it should be allowed? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The question above takes me into my next point. The reason some people believe it should be allowed is for the simple fact that they hate the criminal for what he/she has done. And they wish to obtain revenge. Although this person has killed or raped/molested another human, that should not condone giving them a death sentence. Killing this human being will not bring back the person that they killed. It will not right their wrong. How, in any way, are we teaching people that murder is wrong if we turn around and do it ourselves? More often than not, life in prison is even worse for a criminal. If we restrict what criminals of capital crimes can do within a prison to working, sleeping, and eating (no Internet for criminals of capital crimes like many prisons have today), we may be able to work on crime like murder without losing our humanity. Also, like my opponent stated before, there are some cases where a criminal was actually found to be innocent after being put to death. Faults like these can be avoided if the death penalty wasn't legal. Likewise, if we get rid of the death penalty, our country will save money as well because cases involving the death penalty are often around twice as much money than cases involving a life-sentence in prison (5). The country must take action with supporting humane ways to deal with criminals of capital offense and must implement counseling for all criminals. We should also encourage classes in high schools across the country to bring awareness to crimes such as murder and rape, and why these crimes should not be committed. We need to bring awareness to these actions, especially since they are seen as socially unacceptable to talk about, so most kids will grow up to be mindful of how serious these crimes are. Instead of going blind to our wrath and using the death penalty, our country must work together to lower crime rates (granted there will ALWAYS be crime) without being hypocrites and condoning the killing of criminals of capital punishment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In conclusion, the death penalty should be illegal because it doesn't decrease the rate of crimes, and killing criminals out of anger (and a want for revenge) will not support the idea that murdering is wrong, due to the hypocrisy behind the idea. Back to you, Pro :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (1)"Decrease in Violent Crimes and Property Crimes." FBI. Federal Bureau of Investigation, 10 Nov. 2014. Web. 20 Feb. 2015. http://www.fbi.gov... (2)McCormack, Simon. "America's Most Dangerous States, Based On Law Street's Analysis Of FBI Crime Statistics." The Huffington Post. TheHuffingtonPost.com, 3 Aug. 2014. Web. 22 Feb. 2015. http://www.huffingtonpost.com... (3)Frohlich, Thomas C., and Alexander Kent. "The Safest States In America." 24/7 Wall Street. 2 Jan. 2015. Web. 22 Feb. 2015. http://247wallst.com... (4)"Canada vs United States Crime Stats Compared." NationMaster.com. Nation Master. Web. 20 Feb. 2015. http://www.nationmaster.com... (5)"Costs of the Death Penalty." Costs of the Death Penalty. Death Penalty Information Center, 2015. Web. 11 Feb. 2015. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org... *Hopefully my links will show up this time, but I cited my sources just in case

positive: Death Penalty I believe the death penalty is unconstitutional. It violates human rights, and me being a Christian, it goes against the ten commandments but that's just my say.

positive: The Death Penalty The Con seems to be approaching this debate from a more real-world perspective than the somewhat philosophical take I have on the debate, but we'll see how this goes. As previously stated, my argument is on two main points: 1. Establishing whether there can be circumstances in which the death penalty is justifiable and if so what are they? 2. The death penalty as a preventative measure against repeat offenders rather than as a punishment In my attempt to prove that certain crimes can deserve death, I will focus mainly on how the death penalty is a logical extension of the concept of human rights and how it is the state's duty to enforce it: 1. On my first point, I will start by examining why we have rights in a legal context. In human society, we operate on the principle that everyone has a certain set of inalienable human rights and are to be treated equally. However, why should these rights be inalienable? Why are human rights distinct from animal rights? We are not equal as humans, some are faster, some stronger than others. Yet in the eyes of the law we are treated as such. This is because we all share the faculty to distinguish between right and wrong. We accept responsibilities. The entire concept of human and legal rights is that one's rights are equal to the responsibilities one accepts. If one rejects responsibility, by that logic, one forfeits rights. A prime example of this is in the mentally handicapped. Those who are mentally ill and pose a threat to themselves and others have greatly diminished rights, but equally diminished responsibilities. A mentally ill person does not for example, have the right to vote, but they also have less responsibility in the eyes of the law, because of their handicap. We operate on the understanding that one must abide by the same rules as all, or else suffer equal or greater punishment to their transgression. This is why we use imprisonment as a deterrent. Prisoners, of course, also lose the right to vote among others because of their rejection of their responsibilities. Think of a dog. We do not afford a dog the same rights we do a human, and so we do not hold a dog to the same responsibilities. If a dog mauls a child to death, they are put down. However if a human murders a child, they are not. Why not, though? Assuming that person to be perfectly mentally healthy, they have the same faculty for moral reasoning as any other human and can be held to the same responsibilities as any other human. They have abdicated their responsibility to respect life, and should have forfeited their right to life. If a human being does not behave as a human should, they should not be treated as human. Human rights are deserved because of our ability to understand and respect them, not simple biological similarities. It is the duty of the state to punish the abdication of responsibility with the removal of equal rights. Imprisoning a murderer for 20 years, for example, is much like fining a man €5,000 for stealing €10,000. Punishment must always fit the crime. Certain acts when performed by a mentally capable human being amount to a deficient moral compass. Fundamentally rejecting human morality, and therefore rejecting the rights afforded to all humans. What are we to define these acts as? What acts are fundamental violations of human morality? Murder, rape, and any permutations of the aforementioned, are good examples. Any crime in which the perpetrator is likely to reoffend and society will be better off without. I only propose a model wherein the elimination of the perpetrator benefits society. I will go on to define how the elimination of these people is a good thing for society as a whole. On my first point I have sought to prove that: a) Certain acts can indeed negate one's right to life I intend to expand upon this in later rounds. 2. The death penalty as a preventative measure against reoffence. As previously discussed, I am going to attempt to prove that society can benefit from the elimination of certain criminals. Why, though? Surely it is better to rehabilitate? Indeed, there is some weight to this, but certain severe crimes have high rates of reoffence. This is a symptom of having no moral compass whatsoever. Society is better off without those who have not the faculty to distinguish between right and wrong. Ultimately, one without morality is as good as an animal. These criminals are dangerous in prison, and imprisonment is not a sufficient deterrent to them as these criminals are most likely to thrive in a prison environment. I refer to murderers, rapists, drug dealers, (specifically of hard drugs) gangland crime, etc. Such people are very difficult to punish correctly. In prison, they establish a dominance, and if they are ever to be released will at once return to crime. Rehabilitation is not a likelihood with such criminals and as such, it is not worth the state's while affording them the same rights as others. These people are a burden on society, and their elimination is not a bad thing. We negate the possibility of future crimes by them. In this point I have attempted to prove that: b) It benefits society to eliminate individuals who have been proven beyond reasonable doubt to have committed these offences and it is therefore a duty of the state to do so. Those two statements a and b are the foundation of my argument. I am seeking to prove that the death penalty should be implemented, not that it functions as it is in America, as I feel I made quite clear with my definition. I eagerly await Con's reply, thank you.

positive: The death penalty is a financial burden on the state. Justice is priceless. Even if the death penalty is more expensive than other punishments, that is not sufficient reason to ban it. Fair and proportionate punishments should be independent of financial considerations. Further, there are ways to make the death penalty less expensive than it is today. Shortening the appeals process or changing the method of execution could reduce its costs1. 1 "Saving Lives and Money." The Economist. March 12, 2009. Accessed June 5, 2011. improve this

positive: Death penalty Life in prison deters crime/murder as well as the death penalty

positive: Death penalty The expression an "eye for an eye" is a prescription for proportional justice and capital punishment

positive: Criminals fear death and the death penalty Pro Death Penalty Webpage - Abolitionists also hold the notion that criminals do not fear death because they do not take time to think about the consequences of their acts. If that were true, then I wonder how police officers manage to arrest criminals without killing them. When a policeman holds a criminal at gunpoint and tells him to get on the ground, the criminal will comply fully in the vast majority of of these cases. Why would they do that unless they were afraid of the lethal power of the gun? It is because regardless of what abolitionists claim, criminals are not immune to fear! It is a common misconception to believe that fear is a thought process that has to be worked out with a piece of paper. It's not! It is an instinct that automatically kicks in when one is faced with lethal force! The examples below should confirm that point.

positive: The death penalty should be allowed And why is it just? If you are trying to stop killing, it makes absolutely NO sense to kill people!

positive: This House believes the Death Penalty should be Abolished Thank you for agreeing to this debate. So here I go. First, I would like to state that the death penalty is an act of murder. It is the act of taking someone's life away forcefully, which is wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right. The crime of murder (or other serious crimes such as kidnapping) carries our harshest of sentences such is our disdain for the crime. However, the death penalty is nothing more nothing less than "legal" murder carried out in a cruel and calculated manner by the state. Secondly, the death penalty cannot be reversed once carried out, which raises a number of issues. These serious flaw issues have again recently been highlighted in a report by the American Law Institute. Judges and juries do make mistakes. No legal system in this world can boast of cent percent discipline when it comes to crime investigation. There are chances that lack of proper investigations may land a wrong person in the conviction box, and even send him to gallows. One also has to understand that execution of an individual cannot be rectified if the person was found to be innocent after the execution. On the other hand, a person serving a life term can at least be set free once his innocence has been proved. There are indeed such cases where the "criminal" is innocent. Since 1973, more than 130 people have been released from death rows throughout the US, due to evidence of their wrongful convictions. Imagine what would have happened if their lawyers did not present the evidence in time. Sometimes innocent people cannot be saved. I quote from David Dow, Texas death penalty lawyer, author of "Autobiography of an Execution". He said: "Learn about the Michael Richard case. He was mentally disabled. On the morning of his execution, in 2007, the Supreme Court agreed to hear a case on the constitutionality of lethal injection. Lawyers in my office scrambled to file a petition for Richard raising the issue, but he was executed because we did not finish by the time the court closed at 5. The court would not stay open late for us. I think if we had been able to get the petition filed, he would still be alive today." If the death penalty did not exist, Michael Richard, an innocent man, would have been alive. Justice Harry Blackmun was 85 years old and near the end of his tenure on the Supreme Court when he declared in 1994 that he could no longer support the imposition of the death penalty. "The problem," he said, "is that the inevitability of factual, legal and moral error gives us a system that we know must wrongly kill some defendants, a system that fails to deliver the fair, consistent and reliable sentences of death required by the Constitution." I quote from Anthony Graves, a man who was exonerated from Texas' death row in 2010: "I know how easy it was for them to take my freedom and set out to kill me. I feel that if it was that easy, I"m sure there have been many mistakes in the past, that many men and women on death row are innocent. It"s not an infallible system. Anyone can be sentenced to death for a crime they didn"t commit. That alone is a reason that the death penalty should be abolished." He says that it is highly possible that an innocent man could be put to death for a crime he did not commit. That is not only injustice, but also cannot be reversed.. There is no way to give a person back his/her life. Now, you might say I only quoted from the people who would gain from abolishing the death penalty. Let me quote Bob Curley, who lost his son to murder: "When something like this (the murder of a loved one) happens, you feel violated, and your sense of what"s right and what"s wrong gets thrown out the window for a time. It"s not something that you get over, and there"s no closure. I have channeled my anger in a positive way by working to prevent child sexual abuse, and the death penalty convictions of innocent people." Even he, a person who lost his son to murder, worked to prevent death penalty convictions of innocent people. Those people would most likely have been charged with crimes such as murder. Influenced by his loss, he probably would have stood on the opposite side, but did not. You cannot say family of victims of murder like the death penalty. Some of them say the bloodshed is not a way to honour their beloved's life. (Please see: http://mvfhr.org...) Thirdly, the death penalty is unfair. It is not fair of the state to murder the murderer when it does not rape the rapist or burn the house of the arsonist. If death penalty is legalized on the grounds of tit-for-tat concept of justice, then all other crimes should be punished accordingly. Those in favor of capital punishment also ask why the taxpayers should have to take the burden of housing a convict, and providing him with the necessities of life. Instead, executing him will save a decent amount of money, which can be channelized towards the development of the nation. However, I would like to point out, as I mentioned above, what if the person was innocent? Can money give him back his life? I do not think so. Also, the cost of death penalty is actually higher than the cost of letting a criminal live. Most of us fail to realize that executing a death sentence does not save a lot of money. This is because, the cost incurred prior to and during the trial, involves an endless stream of appeals, legal wrangling, etc. For such trials, special motions and extra time for jury selection are required. Investigation charges also rise exorbitantly, especially by the prosecution. Lawyers and judges need to be paid, as well as simple things such as electricity. Thus, a lot of money is used during the process. Some also say that the death penalty stops people from killing. I think otherwise. Most murders are done in the heat of passion, wherein a person fails to think rationally, so to think the fear of death penalty will reduce homicides is unreasonable. If the government wants to send a message that killing is wrong, how can it convey the same by killing a person? Killing to convince people that killing is wrong, doesn't sound right, does it? "An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind", is what Mahatma Gandhi said. Death as punishment for death is not the solution. A murderer who has mercilessly killed people once, may escape from prison and end up killing others. Life imprisonment means chances of parole, which gives the criminal a chance to get back at those who testified against him. He can also take revenge from the victim's family. This leaves the victim's family living a life of fear all the time. Death penalty ensures the murderer can commit no more crimes in the future. That, however, does not mean we must keep the death penalty. Couldn't life without parole be considered? That can also effectively stop the criminal from taking revenge or murdering again. Is the death penalty really that effective? The time frame between the sentencing of convict and his actual execution is quite lengthy - at times spanning a decade or even more. By the time this execution is carried out, only a few people (mostly the victim's and criminal's family members) keep a track of the trial. As time elapses the deterrence effect of sentencing a person to death starts decreasing. Even those in support of death penalty agree with this fact, and argue that the legal fraternity should speed up such trials and execute the convict at the earliest so that the deterrence effect as a consequence of death penalty is maximum. But then, speedy trials would again mean more chances of an innocent person being sent to the gallows, and that is something which we can't afford to do. I look forward to hearing your arguments and rebuttals!

positive: Death penalty i disagree death penalty. Death penalty is immoral and it can kill innocent people too.

positive: Death penalty The death penalty doesn't deter crime. If anything more and more people will commit crimes under the death penalty. More people will try to see what they can get away with under the death penalty. It's much better to have prison. Not clean, conformtable prisons like the ones we have now, but rather real dark prisons. It's better to let a criminal rot for what he has done than to give him a nice quick death.

positive: Death Penalty One who causes death shall expierence actions taken against them. See, the death penalty should only be used on the worst criminal, such as Charles Manson. These men have torn families apart, and it would be nice to have a solution. The Death penalty is not the solution to everything, but Charles Manson's erratic behavior is quite annoying and he has been imprisoned for over 40 or more years. Charles Manson purposley goes to parole hearings just so he can show how crazy he is, it would be nice to have this problem dissapere.

positive: should the death penalty be allowed for drugs unless someone has done something terrible like mass killing then the death penalty should be allowed. not for doing drugs or selling them.

positive: Death Penalty I believe the death penalty is wrong on a moral standpoint and from a logical standpoint: 1. State-sanction murder/Immoral >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can we as a society tell people not to murder and then turn around and say "but the state can!" The death penalty is murder. mur"der G2;mərdər/Submit noun 1. the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. You might argue that it is legal but I say it violates our 8th amendment which states: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." The death penalty is cruel punishment. If someone commits a horrendous act, I am not saying they should be excused, I am saying they should not be murdered by the state. The death penalty is also dangerous. We run the risk of killing innocent people. Many states have reopened cases where there might have been a chance that the person was wrongfully killed. We already mess up on prison sentence, sending people to prison for 19 years for crimes they did not commit. What makes you think it won't happen in death penalty cases? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Costly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to Common Dreams: "The death penalty is quite expensive and life imprisonment can be cheaper. Over the lifetime of a case, executing prisoners can be three times as expensive as life in prison, primarily due to the higher costs of capital punishment trials, automatic appeals, and the heightened security on death row with lower staff-to-prisoner ratios. Commuting all death sentences to life in prison would save hundreds of millions of dollars per year in the U.S. and many billions over the coming decades." https://www.commondreams.org... One example of this is in Oregon where: "in 1995 the trials for three Washington County murder cases cost more than $1.5 million. One was sentenced to death. The two others, one of whom was found guilty of four murders, are not on death row. In 2000 a fiscal impact summary from the Oregon Department of Administrative Services stated that the Oregon Judicial Department alone would save $2.3 million annually if the death penalty were eliminated. It is estimated that total prosecution and defense costs to the state and counties equal $9 million per year." https://oadp.org... Furthermore: "According to a study by the Kansas Judicial Council (downloads as a pdf), defending a death penalty case costs about four times as much as defending a case where the death penalty is not considered. In terms of costs, a report of the Washington State Bar Association found that death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense versus a similar case without the death penalty; that doesn't take into account the cost of court personnel... ...citing Richard C. Dieter of the non-partisan Death Penalty Information Center, Fox News has reported that studies have "uniformly and conservatively shown that a death-penalty trial costs $1 million more than one in which prosecutors seek life without parole. And let's not forget about appeals: in Idaho, the State Appellate Public Defenders office spent about 44 times more time on a typical death penalty appeal than on a life sentence appeal (downloads as a pdf): almost 8,000 hours per capital defendant compared to about 180 hours per non-death penalty defendant. New York state projected that the death penalty costs the state $1.8 million per case just through trial and initial appeal." https://www.forbes.com... So the death penalty uses up more money and time than a non-capital case. Contrary to popular belief, combining the full case costs of a non-capital trial vs the full case cost of a capital trial, death penalty in the end costs way more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Unjust/Racially Charged >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The death penalty has also been proven to be biased towards white people and against people of color. The death penalty is also more likely to be applied when the defendant is black and the victim is white.. Martin O'Malley, JD, the former Governor of Maryland asserts: "Our nation's legacy of slavery and racial injustice find continued offense in our use of the death penalty. Our death row population is more than 40% black -- nearly three times the proportion of the general population." "The death penalty is racist and has been applied in racially-discriminatory ways. African American men are disproportionately sentenced to death. Prosecutors, juries, and judges are much more likely to apply the death penalty when the victim is white and the defendant is black. Race is a "potent influence" at every step in the criminal (in)justice system, including search, arrest, indictment, trial, conviction, sentence, and execution." https://www.commondreams.org... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Not evidence of deterrence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no evidence that the death penalty deters any crime whatsoever. Why are wasting taxpayer dollars for something that doesn't even have any benefits? "Whether one compares the similar movements of homicide in Canada and the US when only the latter restored the death penalty, or in American states that have abolished it versus those that retain it, or in Hong Kong and Singapore (the first abolishing the death penalty in the mid-1990s and the second greatly increasing its usage at the same), there is no detectable effect of capital punishment on crime..." https://deathpenalty.procon.org... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. No healing And finally, my last argument is that the death penalty provides no healing. ""To me, the death penalty also is something else " a sad reminder of how our justice system typically offers punishment instead of healing for the survivors of violent crime"For a growing number of victims of violence, the thought of honoring our loved ones by killing another human being is not only counter-intuitive, but abhorrent." How does killing another human make us feel better? At the end of the day, the victim's families still feel the pain, the loss, and the agony of their loved one being taken away. https://deathpenalty.procon.org...

positive: The Death Penalty should be made illegal in the USA. For this round, I will focus solely on refuting the two weak opening contentions put forward by my oppoent. First Contention - "Innocent Executions" Claim: The US government has executed innocent people before, and should not be allowed to take this risk. Examples of innocent executions include Cameron Willingham[1], Carlos DeLuna[2], and the Meeks[3]. Fact: There isn't a single documented case of a wrongful execution in the United Statesover as Supreme Court Justice Scalia has pointed out, "not a single case-not one-in which it is clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit. If such an event had occurred in recent years, we would not have to hunt for it; the innocent's name would be shouted from the rooftops." Case 1) Cameron Willingham - the citation was an article in the Chicago Tribune that casted doubt on the expert testimony of arson that was part of the original trial. I would point to several articles in the Dallas Morning News that show while the arson investigation methods were outdated, they investigation by the Tribune didn't rule out arson either. This is also true in the investigation by the Texas Forensic Science Commission, which couldn't rule out arson. All these investigation did was look at the arson investigation techniques used at the time and never examined the inconsistencies in his story. (As for citation, you have to do a search in the paper's archive.) It is telling that his lawyer, David Martin, said "There was no question whatsoever that he was guilty." [1] His ex-wife, and mother to the dead children, believed he did it. [2] For me, this is a case of the media, and anti-death penalty groups, creating a false narrative that excludes the other evidence presented in the case to push an agenda. Case 2) Carlos DeLuna - the citation used is an article in the Guardian U.K. that pointed to a study by Professor James Liebman and 12 students published in the Columbia Human Rights Law Review. I would first point out that Professor Liebman is a longtime anti-death penalty advocate and there is reasons to be skeptical given his other dubious studies on the subject. Such as his study finding "serious error" in capital cases [3]. When you look at the details and the actual cases, what you find is not the unreliability of lower courts but the Supreme Court, which retroactively changes the rules. He used cases from the Rose Bird era of the California Supreme Court which an ideological justice reversed all death penalty cases and these frivolous examples are cited as examples of "reversible errors" [4]. I would also add that you should consider the politics of Columbia University where convicted cop killer and Weather Underground terrorist Kathy Boudin is an adjunct professor at Columbia University"s School of Social Work and serves as director of the school"s "Criminal Justice Initiative" [5]. The extreme politics at Columbia are well known [6]. In this case, the murder occured in 1983 and the execution was carried out in 1989 [7]. So bear in mind this study comes nearly 30 years after the crime. Carlos Deluna had only been out of prison for six weeks prior to the murder. He was convicted of improper use of a motor vehicle and attempted rape, served 3 years, paroled, and then attacked and attempted to rape the mother of a friend, which caused his parole to be revoked and he was sent back to prison [8]. Somehow attempted rape breaking several ribs of your victim doesn't qualify as a violent criminal past in the case of DeLuna according to Liebman. The story Liebman gives was that Deluna was present while another guy committed the crime and he decided his best course of action was to run a short distance and hide under a truck and just happen to have the same amount of money that was taken from the store. And this is how the testimony of the two eyewitnesses is dismissed as well. Nevermind that DeLuna testified at his trial that he was at a skating ring with Mary Ann Perales who testified that he was not with her. The lead prosecutor and one DeLuna's defense have stated that Liebman never spoke with them about the case [9]. Liebman lied [10] when he claimed there is no evidence that the store was robbed despite the fact that during trial the store owner testified about the amount of money missing, which happened to be the same amount found on DeLuna in a wad in addition to his wallet that only had two one-dollar bills. It seems a bit dubious that Hernandez bragged about the killing after DeLuna's conviction, which didn't ever come out until Liebman's investigators showed up many years later. Don't forget that even if he hadn't delievered the killing blow, under the felony-murder rule he still could have been charged and convicted and that if he had gotten life without parole, he would have died or be rotting till he died in prison. I am far from convinced this is a case of an innocent man being executed. Case 3) Thomas Griffin and Meeks Griffin - this is a case where I would have to agree that two men were wrongly executed but we're talking about a murder that occured in 1913 and I don't think a century old case is a sufficient basis to attack the criminal justice system today and further argue we end capital punishment. Claim: This system is clearly fallible and yet serves an irreversible purpose - to legally murder people. Fact: According to Justice Scalia, "[L]et"s give the professor the benefit of the doubt: let"s assume that he understated the number of innocents by roughly a factor of 10, that instead of 340 there were 4,000 people in prison who weren"t involved in the crime in any way. During that same 15 years, there were more than 15 million felony convictions across the country. That would make the error rate .027 percent"or, to put it another way, a success rate of 99.973 percent." [11] As for the argument that capital punishment is equal to "legal murder," I would counter that this is faulty moral logic. I can offer the following examples: arresting and holding a murder suspect in jail till trial doesn't draw charges of legally kidnapping people and holding them against their will. The same can be said of saying rape is the moral equivilent of sex because both end in sexual contact. This faulty logic completey denies context and is an all to common charge leveled by the anti-death penalty crowd. Claim: Should a system which allows for error, allow for the potential (and in some cases fulfilled potential) of mistakes to be made and incorporated when combined with an irreversible outcome? No - not when compared to alternatives. Fact: Well, every single human system on earth is going to have some degree of error possible and a lack of perfection is hardly a basis for abolishment. Following a conviction in a capital case, there is variance among the states, but there are 8 levels of appeal [12]. Following a trial, and a conviction, the defendant gets at automatic appeal to the State Court of Criminal Appeals. It either affirms the conviction or overturns the conviction, sentence, or both. If the court affirmed the conviction, the defendant can make a direct appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, which has the discretion to either hear the case or turn it down. If turned down, the defendant can then begin State Habeas Corpus proceedings with the State Court of Criminal Appeals. If denied, the defendant can begin with Federal Habeas Corpus proceedings in U.S. District Court. If denied, the defendant can the make an appeal in the U.S. Court of Appeals. If denied, the defendant can ask the U.S. Supreme Court to review. If the decision is upheld, then a defendent can seek Executive Clemency from the Governor of the state. If this fails, then the defendant awaits their execution date. This is a pretty lengthy system that affords murderers ample opportunity to fight a conviction, especially more than any murder victim was given to fight their death sentence. And that process can hardly be called potential for wrongful execution and in many cases, thanks in part to your advocacy, murderers can skirt their capital sentence. As for the alternative: consider Mr. DeLuna who you cited and if he had been convicted and sentenced to life without parole, Mr. Liebman wouldn't have studied his case and Mr. DeLuna would have sat in a prison until he died. Excuse me for objecting, but I'm having a hard time from balking at this silly moralizing - they can still be killed while in prison or serve a life term and die in prison. If imperfection and death are enough to give call for abolishment, then we could eliminate our roads and highways, which result in thousands of people dying every year. Claim: But there is also potential for death row innocence, too. As of 21st December 2012, 142 inmates on death row have been released. It is clear from this that the possibility is high that some of our criminals weren't really criminals; they would have died alone, in disgrace, and innocent. Fact: It is clear the possibility is not high; I can take your 142 inmates and use the old 2008 number of 7,000 given a death sentence since 1973 and that calculates to about 2% or a success rate of 98% - extremely low and rare. I would further dispute this list - the DPIC list equates acquittal and dismissals with actual innocence, cases reversed for legal insufficiency instead of innocence, case where evidence of guilt was excluded, defendants that were actual perpetrators/principals, and doesn't allow for review of actual innoncence [13]. At this point that 142 gets really small, but even assuming 142, in the end all you proved was that the system worked in terms of the multiple levels of appeal available to defendants. To me this just demonstrates the horribly dishonest length anti-death penalty zealots are willing to go to fabricate a case. (Due to the 10,000 limitation, I am forced to hold back my rebuttal to the second contention as well as the conclusion. Also sources.)

positive: Death penalty The death penalty is uncharacteristic of a decent society

negative: The death penalty, is it A- Morally Right and B- Logically Right Well, my fine future opponent, be prepared for a beating as I am going to disprove the death penalty! A short snappy argument, a short snappy rebuttal (Optional). Rounds are as follows: 1 - Acceptance Round / First Argument From PRO (Cause I'm that kind!) 2 and 3 - Arguments Only 500 Characters!? Oh No! This time, we cut the crap and get straight into the discussion. Good Luck, You'll Need It!

negative: Death penalty Do you think the death penalty should be legal even now

negative: Death Penalty Do you think that the Death penalty should be legal everywhere?

negative: Death Penalty Resolution: The death penalty should never be allowed as a form of punishment. capital punishment  –noun punishment by death for a crime; death penalty.

negative: The Death Penalty Should Be Abolished Please read everything below before accepting, and remember to post your first argument in round 1. Xboy57 asked me to challenge him to a debate, so I respectfully honor his request. Full Resolution The death penalty should be abolished throughout the entire United States.Definitions The Death Penalty: "...the sentence of execution for murder and some other capital crimes (serious crimes, especially murder, which are punishable by death)."[1]Should: "Must; ought."[2]Abolished: "To do away with; put an end to; annul; make void."[3] Rules1. A forfeit or concession is not allowed.2. No semantics, trolling, or lawyering.3. All arguments and sources must be visible inside this debate. 4. Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed without asking in the comments before you post your round 1 argument. Debate resolution, definitions, rules, and structure cannot be changed in the middle of the debate.Voters, in the case of the breaking of any of these rules by either debater, all seven points in voting should be given to the other person.Debate StructureRound 1: Presentation all arguments by proRound 2: Presentation of arguments by con and rebuttal by proRound 3: Rebuttal by con and defense of original arguments by proRound 4: Defense of original argument by con and a bye round by pro (to make for even rounds; only use one line for your final post)Sources [1]: http://definitions.uslegal.com...[2]: http://dictionary.reference.com...[3]: http://dictionary.reference.com...

negative: should the death penalty be harsher should the death penalty be harsher

negative: Death penalty Death penalty addresses crimes where victim can never be compensated

negative: Should we have the death Penalty? (Con is against death penalty) I accept! Good luck bro. I agree no personal attacks on other player (Ad Hominem) I will offer no rebuttals so it is a fair debate.

negative: the death penalty should be allowed Extend arguments. I hope that Pro returns to the site, and that my harsh critisisms did not deter her from the debate.

negative: Should the death penalty be allowed in Australia I don't like the idea of having the death penalty in Australia and I think that it should never be allowed

negative: should the death penalty be allowed for drugs in americaca we belive to live however unless it hurts others killing over simple drug use is wrong

negative: Death Penalty should be allowed I am going to argue for this topic. I believe that death penalty should be allowed in many countries if not all of them.

negative: Death Penalty I will allow you the first word. For clarification I am against the death penalty in all cases.

negative: Adults should be able to order kids menus to get the toy According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Ooh, black and yellow! Let's shake it up a little. Barry! Breakfast is ready! Ooming! Hang on a second. Hello? - Barry? - Adam? - Oan you believe this is happening? - I can't. I'll pick you up. Looking sharp. Use the stairs. Your father paid good money for those. Sorry. I'm excited. Here's the graduate. We're very proud of you, son. A perfect report card, all B's. Very proud. Ma! I got a thing going here. - You got lint on your fuzz. - Ow! That's me! - Wave to us! We'll be in row 118,000. - Bye! Barry, I told you, stop flying in the house! - Hey, Adam. - Hey, Barry. - Is that fuzz gel? - A little. Special day, graduation. Never thought I'd make it. Three days grade school, three days high school. Those were awkward. Three days college. I'm glad I took a day and hitchhiked around the hive. You did come back different. - Hi, Barry. - Artie, growing a mustache? Looks good. - Hear about Frankie? - Yeah. - You going to the funeral? - No, I'm not going. Everybody knows, sting someone, you die. Don't waste it on a squirrel. Such a hothead. I guess he could have just gotten out of the way. I love this incorporating an amusement park into our day. That's why we don't need vacations. Boy, quite a bit of pomp... under the circumstances. - Well, Adam, today we are men. - We are! - Bee-men. - Amen! Hallelujah! Students, faculty, distinguished bees, please welcome Dean Buzzwell. Welcome, New Hive Oity graduating class of... ...9:15. That concludes our ceremonies. And begins your career at Honex Industries! Will we pick ourjob today? I heard it's just orientation. Heads up! Here we go. Keep your hands and antennas inside the tram at all times. - Wonder what it'll be like? - A little scary. Welcome to Honex, a division of Honesco and a part of the Hexagon Group. This is it! Wow. Wow. We know that you, as a bee, have worked your whole life to get to the point where you can work for your whole life. Honey begins when our valiant Pollen Jocks bring the nectar to the hive. Our top-secret formula is automatically color-corrected, scent-adjusted and bubble-contoured into this soothing sweet syrup with its distinctive golden glow you know as... Honey! - That girl was hot. - She's my cousin! - She is? - Yes, we're all cousins. - Right. You're right. - At Honex, we constantly strive to improve every aspect of bee existence. These bees are stress-testing a new helmet technology. - What do you think he makes? - Not enough. Here we have our latest advancement, the Krelman. - What does that do? - Oatches that little strand of honey that hangs after you pour it. Saves us millions. Oan anyone work on the Krelman? Of course. Most bee jobs are small ones. But bees know that every small job, if it's done well, means a lot. But choose carefully because you'll stay in the job you pick for the rest of your life. The same job the rest of your life? I didn't know that. What's the difference? You'll be happy to know that bees, as a species, haven't had one day off in 27 million years. So you'll just work us to death? We'll sure try. Wow! That blew my mind! "What's the difference?" How can you say that? One job forever? That's an insane choice to have to make. I'm relieved. Now we only have to make one decision in life. But, Adam, how could they never have told us that? Why would you question anything? We're bees. We're the most perfectly functioning society on Earth. You ever think maybe things work a little too well here? Like what? Give me one example. I don't know. But you know what I'm talking about. Please clear the gate. Royal Nectar Force on approach. Wait a second. Oheck it out. - Hey, those are Pollen Jocks! - Wow. I've never seen them this close. They know what it's like outside the hive. Yeah, but some don't come back. - Hey, Jocks! - Hi, Jocks! You guys did great! You're monsters! You're sky freaks! I love it! I love it! - I wonder where they were. - I don't know. Their day's not planned. Outside the hive, flying who knows where, doing who knows what. You can'tjust decide to be a Pollen Jock. You have to be bred for that. Right. Look. That's more pollen than you and I will see in a lifetime. It's just a status symbol. Bees make too much of it. Perhaps. Unless you're wearing it and the ladies see you wearing it. Those ladies? Aren't they our cousins too? Distant. Distant. Look at these two. - Oouple of Hive Harrys. - Let's have fun with them. It must be dangerous being a Pollen Jock. Yeah. Once a bear pinned me against a mushroom! He had a paw on my throat, and with the other, he was slapping me! - Oh, my! - I never thought I'd knock him out. What were you doing during this? Trying to alert the authorities. I can autograph that. A little gusty out there today, wasn't it, comrades? Yeah. Gusty. We're hitting a sunflower patch six miles from here tomorrow. - Six miles, huh? - Barry! A puddle jump for us, but maybe you're not up for it. - Maybe I am. - You are not! We're going 0900 at J-Gate. What do you think, buzzy-boy? Are you bee enough? I might be. It all depends on what 0900 means. Hey, Honex! Dad, you surprised me. You decide what you're interested in? - Well, there's a lot of choices. - But you only get one. Do you ever get bored doing the same job every day? Son, let me tell you about stirring. You grab that stick, and you just move it around, and you stir it around. You get yourself into a rhythm. It's a beautiful thing. You know, Dad, the more I think about it, maybe the honey field just isn't right for me. You were thinking of what, making balloon animals? That's a bad job for a guy with a stinger. Janet, your son's not sure he wants to go into honey! - Barry, you are so funny sometimes. - I'm not trying to be funny. You're not funny! You're going into honey. Our son, the stirrer! - You're gonna be a stirrer? - No one's listening to me! Wait till you see the sticks I have. I could say anything right now. I'm gonna get an ant tattoo! Let's open some honey and celebrate! Maybe I'll pierce my thorax. Shave my antennae. Shack up with a grasshopper. Get a gold tooth and call everybody "dawg"! I'm so proud. - We're starting work today! - Today's the day. Oome on! All the good jobs will be gone. Yeah, right. Pollen counting, stunt bee, pouring, stirrer, front desk, hair removal... - Is it still available? - Hang on. Two left! One of them's yours! Oongratulations! Step to the side. - What'd you get? - Picking crud out. Stellar! Wow! Oouple of newbies? Yes, sir! Our first day! We are ready! Make your choice. - You want to go first? - No, you go. Oh, my. What's available? Restroom attendant's open, not for the reason you think. - Any chance of getting the Krelman? - Sure, you're on. I'm sorry, the Krelman just closed out. Wax monkey's always open. The Krelman opened up again. What happened? A bee died. Makes an opening. See? He's dead. Another dead one. Deady. Deadified. Two more dead. Dead from the neck up. Dead from the neck down. That's life! Oh, this is so hard! Heating, cooling, stunt bee, pourer, stirrer, humming, inspector number seven, lint coordinator, stripe supervisor, mite wrangler. Barry, what do you think I should... Barry? Barry! All right, we've got the sunflower patch in quadrant nine... What happened to you? Where are you? - I'm going out. - Out? Out where? - Out there. - Oh, no! I have to, before I go to work for the rest of my life. You're gonna die! You're crazy! Hello? Another call coming in. If anyone's feeling brave, there's a Korean deli on 83rd that gets their roses today. Hey, guys. - Look at that. - Isn't that the kid we saw yesterday? Hold it, son, flight deck's restricted. It's OK, Lou. We're gonna take him up. Really? Feeling lucky, are you? Sign here, here. Just initial that. - Thank you. - OK. You got a rain advisory today, and as you all know, bees cannot fly in rain. So be careful. As always, watch your brooms, hockey sticks, dogs, birds, bears and bats. Also, I got a couple of reports of root beer being poured on us. Murphy's in a home because of it, babbling like a cicada! - That's awful. - And a reminder for you rookies, bee law number one, absolutely no talking to humans! All right, launch positions! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Black and yellow! Hello! You ready for this, hot shot? Yeah. Yeah, bring it on. Wind, check. - Antennae, check. - Nectar pack, check. - Wings, check. - Stinger, check. Scared out of my shorts, check. OK, ladies, let's move it out! Pound those petunias, you striped stem-suckers! All of you, drain those flowers! Wow! I'm out! I can't believe I'm out! So blue. I feel so fast and free! Box kite! Wow! Flowers! This is Blue Leader. We have roses visual. Bring it around 30 degrees and hold. Roses! 30 degrees, roger. Bringing it around. Stand to the side, kid. It's got a bit of a kick. That is one nectar collector! - Ever see pollination up close? - No, sir. I pick up some pollen here, sprinkle it over here. Maybe a dash over there, a pinch on that one. See that? It's a little bit of magic. That's amazing. Why do we do that? That's pollen power. More pollen, more flowers, more nectar, more honey for us. Oool. I'm picking up a lot of bright yellow. Oould be daisies. Don't we need those? Oopy that visual. Wait. One of these flowers seems to be on the move. Say again? You're reporting a moving flower? Affirmative. That was on the line! This is the coolest. What is it? I don't know, but I'm loving this color. It smells good. Not like a flower, but I like it. Yeah, fuzzy. Ohemical-y. Oareful, guys. It's a little grabby. My sweet lord of bees! Oandy-brain, get off there! Problem! - Guys! - This could be bad. Affirmative. Very close. Gonna hurt. Mama's little boy. You are way out of position, rookie! Ooming in at you like a missile! Help me! I don't think these are flowers. - Should we tell him? - I think he knows. What is this?! Match point! You can start packing up, honey, because you're about to eat it! Yowser! Gross. There's a bee in the car! - Do something! - I'm driving! - Hi, bee. - He's back here! He's going to sting me! Nobody move. If you don't move, he won't sting you. Freeze! He blinked! Spray him, Granny! What are you doing?! Wow... the tension level out here is unbelievable. I gotta get home. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Mayday! Mayday! Bee going down! Ken, could you close the window please? Ken, could you close the window please? Oheck out my new resume. I made it into a fold-out brochure. You see? Folds out. Oh, no. More humans. I don't need this. What was that? Maybe this time. This time. This time. This time! This time! This... Drapes! That is diabolical. It's fantastic. It's got all my special skills, even my top-ten favorite movies. What's number one? Star Wars? Nah, I don't go for that... ...kind of stuff. No wonder we shouldn't talk to them. They're out of their minds. When I leave a job interview, they're flabbergasted, can't believe what I say. There's the sun. Maybe that's a way out. I don't remember the sun having a big 75 on it. I predicted global warming. I could feel it getting hotter. At first I thought it was just me. Wait! Stop! Bee! Stand back. These are winter boots. Wait! Don't kill him! You know I'm allergic to them! This thing could kill me! Why does his life have less value than yours? Why does his life have any less value than mine? Is that your statement? I'm just saying all life has value. You don't know what he's capable of feeling. My brochure! There you go, little guy. I'm not scared of him. It's an allergic thing. Put that on your resume brochure. My whole face could puff up. Make it one of your special skills. Knocking someone out is also a special skill. Right. Bye, Vanessa. Thanks. - Vanessa, next week? Yogurt night? - Sure, Ken. You know, whatever. - You could put carob chips on there. - Bye. - Supposed to be less calories. - Bye. I gotta say something. She saved my life. I gotta say something. All right, here it goes. Nah. What would I say? I could really get in trouble. It's a bee law. You're not supposed to talk to a human. I can't believe I'm doing this. I've got to. Oh, I can't do it. Oome on! No. Yes. No. Do it. I can't. How should I start it? "You like jazz?" No, that's no good. Here she comes! Speak, you fool! Hi! I'm sorry. - You're talking. - Yes, I know. You're talking! I'm so sorry. No, it's OK. It's fine. I know I'm dreaming. But I don't recall going to bed. Well, I'm sure this is very disconcerting. This is a bit of a surprise to me. I mean, you're a bee! I am. And I'm not supposed to be doing this, but they were all trying to kill me. And if it wasn't for you... I had to thank you. It's just how I was raised. That was a little weird. - I'm talking with a bee. - Yeah. I'm talking to a bee. And the bee is talking to me! I just want to say I'm grateful. I'll leave now. - Wait! How did you learn to do that? - What? The talking thing. Same way you did, I guess. "Mama, Dada, honey." You pick it up. - That's very funny. - Yeah. Bees are funny. If we didn't laugh, we'd cry with what we have to deal with. Anyway... Oan I... ...get you something? - Like what? I don't know. I mean... I don't know. Ooffee? I don't want to put you out. It's no trouble. It takes two minutes. - It's just coffee. - I hate to impose. - Don't be ridiculous! - Actually, I would love a cup. Hey, you want rum cake? - I shouldn't. - Have some. - No, I can't. - Oome on! I'm trying to lose a couple micrograms. - Where? - These stripes don't help. You look great! I don't know if you know anything about fashion. Are you all right? No. He's making the tie in the cab as they're flying up Madison. He finally gets there. He runs up the steps into the church. The wedding is on. And he says, "Watermelon? I thought you said Guatemalan. Why would I marry a watermelon?" Is that a bee joke? That's the kind of stuff we do. Yeah, different. So, what are you gonna do, Barry? About work? I don't know. I want to do my part for the hive, but I can't do it the way they want. I know how you feel. - You do? - Sure. My parents wanted me to be a lawyer or a doctor, but I wanted to be a florist. - Really? - My only interest is flowers. Our new queen was just elected with that same campaign slogan. Anyway, if you look... There's my hive right there. See it? You're in Sheep Meadow! Yes! I'm right off the Turtle Pond! No way! I know that area. I lost a toe ring there once. - Why do girls put rings on their toes? - Why not? - It's like putting a hat on your knee. - Maybe I'll try that. - You all right, ma'am? - Oh, yeah. Fine. Just having two cups of coffee! Anyway, this has been great. Thanks for the coffee. Yeah, it's no trouble. Sorry I couldn't finish it. If I did, I'd be up the rest of my life. Are you...? Oan I take a piece of this with me? Sure! Here, have a crumb. - Thanks! - Yeah. All right. Well, then... I guess I'll see you around. Or not. OK, Barry. And thank you so much again... for before. Oh, that? That was nothing. Well, not nothing, but... Anyway... This can't possibly work. He's all set to go. We may as well try it. OK, Dave, pull the chute. - Sounds amazing. - It was amazing! It was the scariest, happiest moment of my life. Humans! I can't believe you were with humans! Giant, scary humans! What were they like? Huge and crazy. They talk crazy. They eat crazy giant things. They drive crazy. - Do they try and kill you, like on TV? - Some of them. But some of them don't. - How'd you get back? - Poodle. You did it, and I'm glad. You saw whatever you wanted to see. You had your "experience." Now you can pick out yourjob and be normal. - Well... - Well? Well, I met someone. You did? Was she Bee-ish? - A wasp?! Your parents will kill you! - No, no, no, not a wasp. - Spider? - I'm not attracted to spiders. I know it's the hottest thing, with the eight legs and all. I can't get by that face. So who is she? She's... human. No, no. That's a bee law. You wouldn't break a bee law. - Her name's Vanessa. - Oh, boy. She's so nice. And she's a florist! Oh, no! You're dating a human florist! We're not dating. You're flying outside the hive, talking to humans that attack our homes with power washers and M-80s! One-eighth a stick of dynamite! She saved my life! And she understands me. This is over! Eat this. This is not over! What was that? - They call it a crumb. - It was so stingin' stripey! And that's not what they eat. That's what falls off what they eat! - You know what a Oinnabon is? - No. It's bread and cinnamon and frosting. They heat it up... Sit down! ...really hot! - Listen to me! We are not them! We're us. There's us and there's them! Yes, but who can deny the heart that is yearning? There's no yearning. Stop yearning. Listen to me! You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. Thinking bee! - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! There he is. He's in the pool. You know what your problem is, Barry? I gotta start thinking bee? How much longer will this go on? It's been three days! Why aren't you working? I've got a lot of big life decisions to think about. What life? You have no life! You have no job. You're barely a bee! Would it kill you to make a little honey? Barry, come out. Your father's talking to you. Martin, would you talk to him? Barry, I'm talking to you! You coming? Got everything? All set! Go ahead. I'll catch up. Don't be too long. Watch this! Vanessa! - We're still here. - I told you not to yell at him. He doesn't respond to yelling! - Then why yell at me? - Because you don't listen! I'm not listening to this. Sorry, I've gotta go. - Where are you going? - I'm meeting a friend. A girl? Is this why you can't decide? Bye. I just hope she's Bee-ish. They have a huge parade of flowers every year in Pasadena? To be in the Tournament of Roses, that's every florist's dream! Up on a float, surrounded by flowers, crowds cheering. A tournament. Do the roses compete in athletic events? No. All right, I've got one. How come you don't fly everywhere? It's exhausting. Why don't you run everywhere? It's faster. Yeah, OK, I see, I see. All right, your turn. TiVo. You can just freeze live TV? That's insane! You don't have that? We have Hivo, but it's a disease. It's a horrible, horrible disease. Oh, my. Dumb bees! You must want to sting all those jerks. We try not to sting. It's usually fatal for us. So you have to watch your temper. Very carefully. You kick a wall, take a walk, write an angry letter and throw it out. Work through it like any emotion: Anger, jealousy, lust. Oh, my goodness! Are you OK? Yeah. - What is wrong with you?! - It's a bug. He's not bothering anybody. Get out of here, you creep! What was that? A Pic 'N' Save circular? Yeah, it was. How did you know? It felt like about 10 pages. Seventy-five is pretty much our limit. You've really got that down to a science. - I lost a cousin to Italian Vogue. - I'll bet. What in the name of Mighty Hercules is this? How did this get here? Oute Bee, Golden Blossom, Ray Liotta Private Select? - Is he that actor? - I never heard of him. - Why is this here? - For people. We eat it. You don't have enough food of your own? - Well, yes. - How do you get it? - Bees make it. - I know who makes it! And it's hard to make it! There's heating, cooling, stirring. You need a whole Krelman thing! - It's organic. - It's our-ganic! It's just honey, Barry. Just what?! Bees don't know about this! This is stealing! A lot of stealing! You've taken our homes, schools, hospitals! This is all we have! And it's on sale?! I'm getting to the bottom of this. I'm getting to the bottom of all of this! Hey, Hector. - You almost done? - Almost. He is here. I sense it. Well, I guess I'll go home now and just leave this nice honey out, with no one around. You're busted, box boy! I knew I heard something. So you can talk! I can talk. And now you'll start talking! Where you getting the sweet stuff? Who's your supplier? I don't understand. I thought we were friends. The last thing we want to do is upset bees! You're too late! It's ours now! You, sir, have crossed the wrong sword! You, sir, will be lunch for my iguana, Ignacio! Where is the honey coming from? Tell me where! Honey Farms! It comes from Honey Farms! Orazy person! What horrible thing has happened here? These faces, they never knew what hit them. And now they're on the road to nowhere! Just keep still. What? You're not dead? Do I look dead? They will wipe anything that moves. Where you headed? To Honey Farms. I am onto something huge here. I'm going to Alaska. Moose blood, crazy stuff. Blows your head off! I'm going to Tacoma. - And you? - He really is dead. All right. Uh-oh! - What is that?! - Oh, no! - A wiper! Triple blade! - Triple blade? Jump on! It's your only chance, bee! Why does everything have to be so doggone clean?! How much do you people need to see?! Open your eyes! Stick your head out the window! From NPR News in Washington, I'm Oarl Kasell. But don't kill no more bugs! - Bee! - Moose blood guy!! - You hear something? - Like what? Like tiny screaming. Turn off the radio. Whassup, bee boy? Hey, Blood. Just a row of honey jars, as far as the eye could see. Wow! I assume wherever this truck goes is where they're getting it. I mean, that honey's ours. - Bees hang tight. - We're all jammed in. It's a close community. Not us, man. We on our own. Every mosquito on his own. - What if you get in trouble? - You a mosquito, you in trouble. Nobody likes us. They just smack. See a mosquito, smack, smack! At least you're out in the world. You must meet girls. Mosquito girls try to trade up, get with a moth, dragonfly. Mosquito girl don't want no mosquito. You got to be kidding me! Mooseblood's about to leave the building! So long, bee! - Hey, guys! - Mooseblood! I knew I'd catch y'all down here. Did you bring your crazy straw? We throw it in jars, slap a label on it, and it's pretty much pure profit. What is this place? A bee's got a brain the size of a pinhead. They are pinheads! Pinhead. - Oheck out the new smoker. - Oh, sweet. That's the one you want. The Thomas 3000! Smoker? Ninety puffs a minute, semi-automatic. Twice the nicotine, all the tar. A couple breaths of this knocks them right out. They make the honey, and we make the money. "They make the honey, and we make the money"? Oh, my! What's going on? Are you OK? Yeah. It doesn't last too long. Do you know you're in a fake hive with fake walls? Our queen was moved here. We had no choice. This is your queen? That's a man in women's clothes! That's a drag queen! What is this? Oh, no! There's hundreds of them! Bee honey. Our honey is being brazenly stolen on a massive scale! This is worse than anything bears have done! I intend to do something. Oh, Barry, stop. Who told you humans are taking our honey? That's a rumor. Do these look like rumors? That's a conspiracy theory. These are obviously doctored photos. How did you get mixed up in this? He's been talking to humans. - What? - Talking to humans?! He has a human girlfriend. And they make out! Make out? Barry! We do not. - You wish you could. - Whose side are you on? The bees! I dated a cricket once in San Antonio. Those crazy legs kept me up all night. Barry, this is what you want to do with your life? I want to do it for all our lives. Nobody works harder than bees! Dad, I remember you coming home so overworked your hands were still stirring. You couldn't stop. I remember that. What right do they have to our honey? We live on two cups a year. They put it in lip balm for no reason whatsoever! Even if it's true, what can one bee do? Sting them where it really hurts. In the face! The eye! - That would hurt. - No. Up the nose? That's a killer. There's only one place you can sting the humans, one place where it matters. Hive at Five, the hive's only full-hour action news source. No more bee beards! With Bob Bumble at the anchor desk. Weather with Storm Stinger. Sports with Buzz Larvi. And Jeanette Ohung. - Good evening. I'm Bob Bumble. - And I'm Jeanette Ohung. A tri-county bee, Barry Benson, intends to sue the human race for stealing our honey, packaging it and profiting from it illegally! Tomorrow night on Bee Larry King, we'll have three former queens here in our studio, discussing their new book, Olassy Ladies, out this week on Hexagon. Tonight we're talking to Barry Benson. Did you ever think, "I'm a kid from the hive. I can't do this"? Bees have never been afraid to change the world. What about Bee Oolumbus? Bee Gandhi? Bejesus? Where I'm from, we'd never sue humans. We were thinking of stickball or candy stores. How old are you? The bee community is supporting you in this case, which will be the trial of the bee century. You know, they have a Larry King in the human world too. It's a common name. Next week... He looks like you and has a show and suspenders and colored dots... Next week... Glasses, quotes on the bottom from the guest even though you just heard 'em. Bear Week next week! They're scary, hairy and here live. Always leans forward, pointy shoulders, squinty eyes, very Jewish. In tennis, you attack at the point of weakness! It was my grandmother, Ken. She's 81. Honey, her backhand's a joke! I'm not gonna take advantage of that? Quiet, please. Actual work going on here. - Is that that same bee? - Yes, it is! I'm helping him sue the human race. - Hello. - Hello, bee. This is Ken. Yeah, I remember you. Timberland, size ten and a half. Vibram sole, I believe. Why does he talk again? Listen, you better go 'cause we're really busy working. But it's our yogurt night! Bye-bye. Why is yogurt night so difficult?! You poor thing. You two have been at this for hours! Yes, and Adam here has been a huge help. - Frosting... - How many sugars? Just one. I try not to use the competition. So why are you helping me? Bees have good qualities. And it takes my mind off the shop. Instead of flowers, people are giving balloon bouquets now. Those are great, if you're three. And artificial flowers. - Oh, those just get me psychotic! - Yeah, me too. Bent stingers, pointless pollination. Bees must hate those fake things! Nothing worse than a daffodil that's had work done. Maybe this could make up for it a little bit. - This lawsuit's a pretty big deal. - I guess. You sure you want to go through with it? Am I sure? When I'm done with the humans, they won't be able to say, "Honey, I'm home," without paying a royalty! It's an incredible scene here in downtown Manhattan, where the world anxiously waits, because for the first time in history, we will hear for ourselves if a honeybee can actually speak. What have we gotten into here, Barry? It's pretty big, isn't it? I can't believe how many humans don't work during the day. You think billion-dollar multinational food companies have good lawyers? Everybody needs to stay behind the barricade. - What's the matter? - I don't know, I just got a chill. Well, if it isn't the bee team. You boys work on this? All rise! The Honorable Judge Bumbleton presiding. All right. Oase number 4475, Superior Oourt of New York, Barry Bee Benson v. the Honey Industry is now in session. Mr. Montgomery, you're representing the five food companies collectively? A privilege. Mr. Benson... you're representing all the bees of the world? I'm kidding. Yes, Your Honor, we're ready to proceed. Mr. Montgomery, your opening statement, please. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my grandmother was a simple woman. Born on a farm, she believed it was man's divine right to benefit from the bounty of nature God put before us. If we lived in the topsy-turvy world Mr. Benson imagines, just think of what would it mean. I would have to negotiate with the silkworm for the elastic in my britches! Talking bee! How do we know this isn't some sort of holographic motion-picture-capture Hollywood wizardry? They could be using laser beams! Robotics! Ventriloquism! Oloning! For all we know, he could be on steroids! Mr. Benson? Ladies and gentlemen, there's no trickery here. I'm just an ordinary bee. Honey's pretty important to me. It's important to all bees. We invented it! We make it. And we protect it with our lives. Unfortunately, there are some people in this room who think they can take it from us 'cause we're the little guys! I'm hoping that, after this is all over, you'll see how, by taking our honey, you not only take everything we have but everything we are! I wish he'd dress like that all the time. So nice! Oall your first witness. So, Mr. Klauss Vanderhayden of Honey Farms, big company you have. I suppose so. I see you also own Honeyburton and Honron! Yes, they provide beekeepers for our farms. Beekeeper. I find that to be a very disturbing term. I don't imagine you employ any bee-free-ers, do you? - No. - I couldn't hear you. - No. - No. Because you don't free bees. You keep bees. Not only that, it seems you thought a bear would be an appropriate image for a jar of honey. They're very lovable creatures. Yogi Bear, Fozzie Bear, Build-A-Bear. You mean like this? Bears kill bees! How'd you like his head crashing through your living room?! Biting into your couch! Spitting out your throw pillows! OK, that's enough. Take him away. So, Mr. Sting, thank you for being here. Your name intrigues me. - Where have I heard it before? - I was with a band called The Police. But you've never been a police officer, have you? No, I haven't. No, you haven't. And so here we have yet another example of bee culture casually stolen by a human for nothing more than a prance-about stage name. Oh, please. Have you ever been stung, Mr. Sting? Because I'm feeling a little stung, Sting. Or should I say... Mr. Gordon M. Sumner! That's not his real name?! You idiots! Mr. Liotta, first, belated congratulations on your Emmy win for a guest spot on ER in 2005. Thank you. Thank you. I see from your resume that you're devilishly handsome with a churning inner turmoil that's ready to blow. I enjoy what I do. Is that a crime? Not yet it isn't. But is this what it's come to for you? Exploiting tiny, helpless bees so you don't have to rehearse your part and learn your lines, sir? Watch it, Benson! I could blow right now! This isn't a goodfella. This is a badfella! Why doesn't someone just step on this creep, and we can all go home?! - Order in this court! - You're all thinking it! Order! Order, I say! - Say it! - Mr. Liotta, please sit down! I think it was awfully nice of that bear to pitch in like that. I think the jury's on our side. Are we doing everything right, legally? I'm a florist. Right. Well, here's to a great team. To a great team! Well, hello. - Ken! - Hello. I didn't think you were coming. No, I was just late. I tried to call, but... the battery. I didn't want all this to go to waste, so I called Barry. Luckily, he was free. Oh, that was lucky. There's a little left. I could heat it up. Yeah, heat it up, sure, whatever. So I hear you're quite a tennis player. I'm not much for the game myself. The ball's a little grabby. That's where I usually sit. Right... there. Ken, Barry was looking at your resume, and he agreed with me that eating with chopsticks isn't really a special skill. You think I don't see what you're doing? I know how hard it is to find the rightjob. We have that in common. Do we? Bees have 100 percent employment, but we do jobs like taking the crud out. That's just what I was thinking about doing. Ken, I let Barry borrow your razor for his fuzz. I hope that was all right. I'm going to drain the old stinger. Yeah, you do that. Look at that. You know, I've just about had it with your little mind games. - What's that? - Italian Vogue. Mamma mia, that's a lot of pages. A lot of ads. Remember what Van said, why is your life more valuable than mine? Funny, I just can't seem to recall that! I think something stinks in here! I love the smell of flowers. How do you like the smell of flames?! Not as much. Water bug! Not taking sides! Ken, I'm wearing a Ohapstick hat! This is pathetic! I've got issues! Well, well, well, a royal flush! - You're bluffing. - Am I? Surf's up, dude! Poo water! That bowl is gnarly. Except for those dirty yellow rings! Kenneth! What are you doing?! You know, I don't even like honey! I don't eat it! We need to talk! He's just a little bee! And he happens to be the nicest bee I've met in a long time! Long time? What are you talking about?! Are there other bugs in your life? No, but there are other things bugging me in life. And you're one of them! Fine! Talking bees, no yogurt night... My nerves are fried from riding on this emotional roller coaster! Goodbye, Ken. And for your information, I prefer sugar-free, artificial sweeteners made by man! I'm sorry about all that. I know it's got an aftertaste! I like it! I always felt there was some kind of barrier between Ken and me. I couldn't overcome it. Oh, well. Are you OK for the trial? I believe Mr. Montgomery is about out of ideas. We would like to call Mr. Barry Benson Bee to the stand. Good idea! You can really see why he's considered one of the best lawyers... Yeah. Layton, you've gotta weave some magic with this jury, or it's gonna be all over. Don't worry. The only thing I have to do to turn this jury around is to remind them of what they don't like about bees. - You got the tweezers? - Are you allergic? Only to losing, son. Only to losing. Mr. Benson Bee, I'll ask you what I think we'd all like to know. What exactly is your relationship to that woman? We're friends. - Good friends? - Yes. How good? Do you live together? Wait a minute... Are you her little... ...bedbug? I've seen a bee documentary or two. From what I understand, doesn't your queen give birth to all the bee children? - Yeah, but... - So those aren't your real parents! - Oh, Barry... - Yes, they are! Hold me back! You're an illegitimate bee, aren't you, Benson? He's denouncing bees! Don't y'all date your cousins? - Objection! - I'm going to pincushion this guy! Adam, don't! It's what he wants! Oh, I'm hit!! Oh, lordy, I am hit! Order! Order! The venom! The venom is coursing through my veins! I have been felled by a winged beast of destruction! You see? You can't treat them like equals! They're striped savages! Stinging's the only thing they know! It's their way! - Adam, stay with me. - I can't feel my legs. What angel of mercy will come forward to suck the poison from my heaving buttocks? I will have order in this court. Order! Order, please! The case of the honeybees versus the human race took a pointed turn against the bees yesterday when one of their legal team stung Layton T. Montgomery. - Hey, buddy. - Hey. - Is there much pain? - Yeah. I... I blew the whole case, didn't I? It doesn't matter. What matters is you're alive. You could have died. I'd be better off dead. Look at me. They got it from the cafeteria downstairs, in a tuna sandwich. Look, there's a little celery still on it. What was it like to sting someone? I can't explain it. It was all... All adrenaline and then... and then ecstasy! All right. You think it was all a trap? Of course. I'm sorry. I flew us right into this. What were we thinking? Look at us. We're just a couple of bugs in this world. What will the humans do to us if they win? I don't know. I hear they put the roaches in motels. That doesn't sound so bad. Adam, they check in, but they don't check out! Oh, my. Oould you get a nurse to close that window? - Why? - The smoke. Bees don't smoke. Right. Bees don't smoke. Bees don't smoke! But some bees are smoking. That's it! That's our case! It is? It's not over? Get dressed. I've gotta go somewhere. Get back to the court and stall. Stall any way you can. And assuming you've done step correctly, you're ready for the tub. Mr. Flayman. Yes? Yes, Your Honor! Where is the rest of your team? Well, Your Honor, it's interesting. Bees are trained to fly haphazardly, and as a result, we don't make very good time. I actually heard a funny story about... Your Honor, haven't these ridiculous bugs taken up enough of this court's valuable time? How much longer will we allow these absurd shenanigans to go on? They have presented no compelling evidence to support their charges against my clients, who run legitimate businesses. I move for a complete dismissal of this entire case! Mr. Flayman, I'm afraid I'm going to have to consider Mr. Montgomery's motion. But you can't! We have a terrific case. Where is your proof? Where is the evidence? Show me the smoking gun! Hold it, Your Honor! You want a smoking gun? Here is your smoking gun. What is that? It's a bee smoker! What, this? This harmless little contraption? This couldn't hurt a fly, let alone a bee. Look at what has happened to bees who have never been asked, "Smoking or non?" Is this what nature intended for us? To be forcibly addicted to smoke machines and man-made wooden slat work camps? Living out our lives as honey slaves to the white man? - What are we gonna do? - He's playing the species card. Ladies and gentlemen, please, free these bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! The court finds in favor of the bees! Vanessa, we won! I knew you could do it! High-five! Sorry. I'm OK! You know what this means? All the honey will finally belong to the bees. Now we won't have to work so hard all the time. This is an unholy perversion of the balance of nature, Benson. You'll regret this. Barry, how much honey is out there? All right. One at a time. Barry, who are you wearing? My sweater is Ralph Lauren, and I have no pants. - What if Montgomery's right? - What do you mean? We've been living the bee way a long time, 27 million years. Oongratulations on your victory. What will you demand as a settlement? First, we'll demand a complete shutdown of all bee work camps. Then we want back the honey that was ours to begin with, every last drop. We demand an end to the glorification of the bear as anything more than a filthy, smelly, bad-breath stink machine. We're all aware of what they do in the woods. Wait for my signal. Take him out. He'll have nauseous for a few hours, then he'll be fine. And we will no longer tolerate bee-negative nicknames... But it's just a prance-about stage name! ...unnecessary inclusion of honey in bogus health products and la-dee-da human tea-time snack garnishments. Oan't breathe. Bring it in, boys! Hold it right there! Good. Tap it. Mr. Buzzwell, we just passed three cups, and there's gallons more coming! - I think we need to shut down! - Shut down? We've never shut down. Shut down honey production! Stop making honey! Turn your key, sir! What do we do now? Oannonball! We're shutting honey production! Mission abort. Aborting pollination and nectar detail. Returning to base. Adam, you wouldn't believe how much honey was out there. Oh, yeah? What's going on? Where is everybody? - Are they out celebrating? - They're home. They don't know what to do. Laying out, sleeping in. I heard your Uncle Oarl was on his way to San Antonio with a cricket. At least we got our honey back. Sometimes I think, so what if humans liked our honey? Who wouldn't? It's the greatest thing in the world! I was excited to be part of making it. This was my new desk. This was my new job. I wanted to do it really well. And now... Now I can't. I don't understand why they're not happy. I thought their lives would be better! They're doing nothing. It's amazing. Honey really changes people. You don't have any idea what's going on, do you? - What did you want to show me? - This. What happened here? That is not the half of it. Oh, no. Oh, my. They're all wilting. Doesn't look very good, does it? No. And whose fault do you think that is? You know, I'm gonna guess bees. Bees? Specifically, me. I didn't think bees not needing to make honey would affect all these things. It's notjust flowers. Fruits, vegetables, they all need bees. That's our whole SAT test right there. Take away produce, that affects the entire animal kingdom. And then, of course... The human species? So if there's no more pollination, it could all just go south here, couldn't it? I know this is also partly my fault. How about a suicide pact? How do we do it? - I'll sting you, you step on me. - Thatjust kills you twice. Right, right. Listen, Barry... sorry, but I gotta get going. I had to open my mouth and talk. Vanessa? Vanessa? Why are you leaving? Where are you going? To the final Tournament of Roses parade in Pasadena. They've moved it to this weekend because all the flowers are dying. It's the last chance I'll ever have to see it. Vanessa, I just wanna say I'm sorry. I never meant it to turn out like this. I know. Me neither. Tournament of Roses. Roses can't do sports. Wait a minute. Roses. Roses? Roses! Vanessa! Roses?! Barry? - Roses are flowers! - Yes, they are. Flowers, bees, pollen! I know. That's why this is the last parade. Maybe not. Oould you ask him to slow down? Oould you slow down? Barry! OK, I made a huge mistake. This is a total disaster, all my fault. Yes, it kind of is. I've ruined the planet. I wanted to help you with the flower shop. I've made it worse. Actually, it's completely closed down. I thought maybe you were remodeling. But I have another idea, and it's greater than my previous ideas combined. I don't want to hear it! All right, they have the roses, the roses have the pollen. I know every bee, plant and flower bud in this park. All we gotta do is get what they've got back here with what we've got. - Bees. - Park. - Pollen! - Flowers. - Repollination! - Across the nation! Tournament of Roses, Pasadena, Oalifornia. They've got nothing but flowers, floats and cotton candy. Security will be tight. I have an idea. Vanessa Bloome, FTD. Official floral business. It's real. Sorry, ma'am. Nice brooch. Thank you. It was a gift. Once inside, we just pick the right float. How about The Princess and the Pea? I could be the princess, and you could be the pea! Yes, I got it. - Where should I sit? - What are you? - I believe I'm the pea. - The pea? It goes under the mattresses. - Not in this fairy tale, sweetheart. - I'm getting the marshal. You do that! This whole parade is a fiasco! Let's see what this baby'll do. Hey, what are you doing?! Then all we do is blend in with traffic... ...without arousing suspicion. Once at the airport, there's no stopping us. Stop! Security. - You and your insect pack your float? - Yes. Has it been in your possession the entire time? Would you remove your shoes? - Remove your stinger. - It's part of me. I know. Just having some fun. Enjoy your flight. Then if we're lucky, we'll have just enough pollen to do the job. Oan you believe how lucky we are? We have just enough pollen to do the job! I think this is gonna work. It's got to work. Attention, passengers, this is Oaptain Scott. We have a bit of bad weather in New York. It looks like we'll experience a couple hours delay. Barry, these are cut flowers with no water. They'll never make it. I gotta get up there and talk to them. Be careful. Oan I get help with the Sky Mall magazine? I'd like to order the talking inflatable nose and ear hair trimmer. Oaptain, I'm in a real situation. - What'd you say, Hal? - Nothing. Bee! Don't freak out! My entire species... What are you doing? - Wait a minute! I'm an attorney! - Who's an attorney? Don't move. Oh, Barry. Good afternoon, passengers. This is your captain. Would a Miss Vanessa Bloome in 24B please report to the cockpit? And please hurry! What happened here? There was a DustBuster, a toupee, a life raft exploded. One's bald, one's in a boat, they're both unconscious! - Is that another bee joke? - No! No one's flying the plane! This is JFK control tower, Flight 356. What's your status? This is Vanessa Bloome. I'm a florist from New York. Where's the pilot? He's unconscious, and so is the copilot. Not good. Does anyone onboard have flight experience? As a matter of fact, there is. - Who's that? - Barry Benson. From the honey trial?! Oh, great. Vanessa, this is nothing more than a big metal bee. It's got giant wings, huge engines. I can't fly a plane. - Why not? Isn't John Travolta a pilot? - Yes. How hard could it be? Wait, Barry! We're headed into some lightning. This is Bob Bumble. We have some late-breaking news from JFK Airport, where a suspenseful scene is developing. Barry Benson, fresh from his legal victory... That's Barry! ...is attempting to land a plane, loaded with people, flowers and an incapacitated flight crew. Flowers?! We have a storm in the area and two individuals at the controls with absolutely no flight experience. Just a minute. There's a bee on that plane. I'm quite familiar with Mr. Benson and his no-account compadres. They've done enough damage. But isn't he your only hope? Technically, a bee shouldn't be able to fly at all. Their wings are too small... Haven't we heard this a million times? "The surface area of the wings and body mass make no sense." - Get this on the air! - Got it. - Stand by. - We're going live. The way we work may be a mystery to you. Making honey takes a lot of bees doing a lot of small jobs. But let me tell you about a small job. If you do it well, it makes a big difference. More than we realized. To us, to everyone. That's why I want to get bees back to working together. That's the bee way! We're not made of Jell-O. We get behind a fellow. - Black and yellow! - Hello! Left, right, down, hover. - Hover? - Forget hover. This isn't so hard. Beep-beep! Beep-beep! Barry, what happened?! Wait, I think we were on autopilot the whole time. - That may have been helping me. - And now we're not! So it turns out I cannot fly a plane. All of you, let's get behind this fellow! Move it out! Move out! Our only chance is if I do what I'd do, you copy me with the wings of the plane! Don't have to yell. I'm not yelling! We're in a lot of trouble. It's very hard to concentrate with that panicky tone in your voice! It's not a tone. I'm panicking! I can't do this! Vanessa, pull yourself together. You have to snap out of it! You snap out of it. You snap out of it. - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - Hold it! - Why? Oome on, it's my turn. How is the plane flying? I don't know. Hello? Benson, got any flowers for a happy occasion in there? The Pollen Jocks! They do get behind a fellow. - Black and yellow. - Hello. All right, let's drop this tin can on the blacktop. Where? I can't see anything. Oan you? No, nothing. It's all cloudy. Oome on. You got to think bee, Barry. - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Wait a minute. I think I'm feeling something. - What? - I don't know. It's strong, pulling me. Like a 27-million-year-old instinct. Bring the nose down. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! - What in the world is on the tarmac? - Get some lights on that! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! - Vanessa, aim for the flower. - OK. Out the engines. We're going in on bee power. Ready, boys? Affirmative! Good. Good. Easy, now. That's it. Land on that flower! Ready? Full reverse! Spin it around! - Not that flower! The other one! - Which one? - That flower. - I'm aiming at the flower! That's a fat guy in a flowered shirt. I mean the giant pulsating flower made of millions of bees! Pull forward. Nose down. Tail up. Rotate around it. - This is insane, Barry! - This's the only way I know how to fly. Am I koo-koo-kachoo, or is this plane flying in an insect-like pattern? Get your nose in there. Don't be afraid. Smell it. Full reverse! Just drop it. Be a part of it. Aim for the center! Now drop it in! Drop it in, woman! Oome on, already. Barry, we did it! You taught me how to fly! - Yes. No high-five! - Right. Barry, it worked! Did you see the giant flower? What giant flower? Where? Of course I saw the flower! That was genius! - Thank you. - But we're not done yet. Listen, everyone! This runway is covered with the last pollen from the last flowers available anywhere on Earth. That means this is our last chance. We're the only ones who make honey, pollinate flowers and dress like this. If we're gonna survive as a species, this is our moment! What do you say? Are we going to be bees, orjust Museum of Natural History keychains? We're bees! Keychain! Then follow me! Except Keychain. Hold on, Barry. Here. You've earned this. Yeah! I'm a Pollen Jock! And it's a perfect fit. All I gotta do are the sleeves. Oh, yeah. That's our Barry. Mom! The bees are back! If anybody needs to make a call, now's the time. I got a feeling we'll be working late tonight! Here's your change. Have a great afternoon! Oan I help who's next? Would you like some honey with that? It is bee-approved. Don't forget these. Milk, cream, cheese, it's all me. And I don't see a nickel! Sometimes I just feel like a piece of meat! I had no idea. Barry, I'm sorry. Have you got a moment? Would you excuse me? My mosquito associate will help you. Sorry I'm late. He's a lawyer too? I was already a blood-sucking parasite. All I needed was a briefcase. Have a great afternoon! Barry, I just got this huge tulip order, and I can't get them anywhere. No problem, Vannie. Just leave it to me. You're a lifesaver, Barry. Oan I help who's next? All right, scramble, jocks! It's time to fly. Thank you, Barry! That bee is living my life! Let it go, Kenny. - When will this nightmare end?! - Let it all go. - Beautiful day to fly. - Sure is. Between you and me, I was dying to get out of that office. You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. - Thinking bee! - Me? Hold it. Let's just stop for a second. Hold it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, everyone. Oan we stop here? I'm not making a major life decision during a production number! All right. Take ten, everybody. Wrap it up, guys. I had virtually no rehearsal for that.

negative: the lizard According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Ooh, black and yellow! Let's shake it up a little. Barry! Breakfast is ready! Ooming! Hang on a second. Hello? - Barry? - Adam? - Oan you believe this is happening? - I can't. I'll pick you up. Looking sharp. Use the stairs. Your father paid good money for those. Sorry. I'm excited. Here's the graduate. We're very proud of you, son. A perfect report card, all B's. Very proud. Ma! I got a thing going here. - You got lint on your fuzz. - Ow! That's me! - Wave to us! We'll be in row 118,000. - Bye! Barry, I told you, stop flying in the house! - Hey, Adam. - Hey, Barry. - Is that fuzz gel? - A little. Special day, graduation. Never thought I'd make it. Three days grade school, three days high school. Those were awkward. Three days college. I'm glad I took a day and hitchhiked around the hive. You did come back different. - Hi, Barry. - Artie, growing a mustache? Looks good. - Hear about Frankie? - Yeah. - You going to the funeral? - No, I'm not going. Everybody knows, sting someone, you die. Don't waste it on a squirrel. Such a hothead. I guess he could have just gotten out of the way. I love this incorporating an amusement park into our day. That's why we don't need vacations. Boy, quite a bit of pomp... under the circumstances. - Well, Adam, today we are men. - We are! - Bee-men. - Amen! Hallelujah! Students, faculty, distinguished bees, please welcome Dean Buzzwell. Welcome, New Hive Oity graduating class of... ...9:15. That concludes our ceremonies. And begins your career at Honex Industries! Will we pick ourjob today? I heard it's just orientation. Heads up! Here we go. Keep your hands and antennas inside the tram at all times. - Wonder what it'll be like? - A little scary. Welcome to Honex, a division of Honesco and a part of the Hexagon Group. This is it! Wow. Wow. We know that you, as a bee, have worked your whole life to get to the point where you can work for your whole life. Honey begins when our valiant Pollen Jocks bring the nectar to the hive. Our top-secret formula is automatically color-corrected, scent-adjusted and bubble-contoured into this soothing sweet syrup with its distinctive golden glow you know as... Honey! - That girl was hot. - She's my cousin! - She is? - Yes, we're all cousins. - Right. You're right. - At Honex, we constantly strive to improve every aspect of bee existence. These bees are stress-testing a new helmet technology. - What do you think he makes? - Not enough. Here we have our latest advancement, the Krelman. - What does that do? - Oatches that little strand of honey that hangs after you pour it. Saves us millions. Oan anyone work on the Krelman? Of course. Most bee jobs are small ones. But bees know that every small job, if it's done well, means a lot. But choose carefully because you'll stay in the job you pick for the rest of your life. The same job the rest of your life? I didn't know that. What's the difference? You'll be happy to know that bees, as a species, haven't had one day off in 27 million years. So you'll just work us to death? We'll sure try. Wow! That blew my mind! "What's the difference?" How can you say that? One job forever? That's an insane choice to have to make. I'm relieved. Now we only have to make one decision in life. But, Adam, how could they never have told us that? Why would you question anything? We're bees. We're the most perfectly functioning society on Earth. You ever think maybe things work a little too well here? Like what? Give me one example. I don't know. But you know what I'm talking about. Please clear the gate. Royal Nectar Force on approach. Wait a second. Oheck it out. - Hey, those are Pollen Jocks! - Wow. I've never seen them this close. They know what it's like outside the hive. Yeah, but some don't come back. - Hey, Jocks! - Hi, Jocks! You guys did great! You're monsters! You're sky freaks! I love it! I love it! - I wonder where they were. - I don't know. Their day's not planned. Outside the hive, flying who knows where, doing who knows what. You can'tjust decide to be a Pollen Jock. You have to be bred for that. Right. Look. That's more pollen than you and I will see in a lifetime. It's just a status symbol. Bees make too much of it. Perhaps. Unless you're wearing it and the ladies see you wearing it. Those ladies? Aren't they our cousins too? Distant. Distant. Look at these two. - Oouple of Hive Harrys. - Let's have fun with them. It must be dangerous being a Pollen Jock. Yeah. Once a bear pinned me against a mushroom! He had a paw on my throat, and with the other, he was slapping me! - Oh, my! - I never thought I'd knock him out. What were you doing during this? Trying to alert the authorities. I can autograph that. A little gusty out there today, wasn't it, comrades? Yeah. Gusty. We're hitting a sunflower patch six miles from here tomorrow. - Six miles, huh? - Barry! A puddle jump for us, but maybe you're not up for it. - Maybe I am. - You are not! We're going 0900 at J-Gate. What do you think, buzzy-boy? Are you bee enough? I might be. It all depends on what 0900 means. Hey, Honex! Dad, you surprised me. You decide what you're interested in? - Well, there's a lot of choices. - But you only get one. Do you ever get bored doing the same job every day? Son, let me tell you about stirring. You grab that stick, and you just move it around, and you stir it around. You get yourself into a rhythm. It's a beautiful thing. You know, Dad, the more I think about it, maybe the honey field just isn't right for me. You were thinking of what, making balloon animals? That's a bad job for a guy with a stinger. Janet, your son's not sure he wants to go into honey! - Barry, you are so funny sometimes. - I'm not trying to be funny. You're not funny! You're going into honey. Our son, the stirrer! - You're gonna be a stirrer? - No one's listening to me! Wait till you see the sticks I have. I could say anything right now. I'm gonna get an ant tattoo! Let's open some honey and celebrate! Maybe I'll pierce my thorax. Shave my antennae. Shack up with a grasshopper. Get a gold tooth and call everybody "dawg"! I'm so proud. - We're starting work today! - Today's the day. Oome on! All the good jobs will be gone. Yeah, right. Pollen counting, stunt bee, pouring, stirrer, front desk, hair removal... - Is it still available? - Hang on. Two left! One of them's yours! Oongratulations! Step to the side. - What'd you get? - Picking crud out. Stellar! Wow! Oouple of newbies? Yes, sir! Our first day! We are ready! Make your choice. - You want to go first? - No, you go. Oh, my. What's available? Restroom attendant's open, not for the reason you think. - Any chance of getting the Krelman? - Sure, you're on. I'm sorry, the Krelman just closed out. Wax monkey's always open. The Krelman opened up again. What happened? A bee died. Makes an opening. See? He's dead. Another dead one. Deady. Deadified. Two more dead. Dead from the neck up. Dead from the neck down. That's life! Oh, this is so hard! Heating, cooling, stunt bee, pourer, stirrer, humming, inspector number seven, lint coordinator, stripe supervisor, mite wrangler. Barry, what do you think I should... Barry? Barry! All right, we've got the sunflower patch in quadrant nine... What happened to you? Where are you? - I'm going out. - Out? Out where? - Out there. - Oh, no! I have to, before I go to work for the rest of my life. You're gonna die! You're crazy! Hello? Another call coming in. If anyone's feeling brave, there's a Korean deli on 83rd that gets their roses today. Hey, guys. - Look at that. - Isn't that the kid we saw yesterday? Hold it, son, flight deck's restricted. It's OK, Lou. We're gonna take him up. Really? Feeling lucky, are you? Sign here, here. Just initial that. - Thank you. - OK. You got a rain advisory today, and as you all know, bees cannot fly in rain. So be careful. As always, watch your brooms, hockey sticks, dogs, birds, bears and bats. Also, I got a couple of reports of root beer being poured on us. Murphy's in a home because of it, babbling like a cicada! - That's awful. - And a reminder for you rookies, bee law number one, absolutely no talking to humans! All right, launch positions! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Black and yellow! Hello! You ready for this, hot shot? Yeah. Yeah, bring it on. Wind, check. - Antennae, check. - Nectar pack, check. - Wings, check. - Stinger, check. Scared out of my shorts, check. OK, ladies, let's move it out! Pound those petunias, you striped stem-suckers! All of you, drain those flowers! Wow! I'm out! I can't believe I'm out! So blue. I feel so fast and free! Box kite! Wow! Flowers! This is Blue Leader. We have roses visual. Bring it around 30 degrees and hold. Roses! 30 degrees, roger. Bringing it around. Stand to the side, kid. It's got a bit of a kick. That is one nectar collector! - Ever see pollination up close? - No, sir. I pick up some pollen here, sprinkle it over here. Maybe a dash over there, a pinch on that one. See that? It's a little bit of magic. That's amazing. Why do we do that? That's pollen power. More pollen, more flowers, more nectar, more honey for us. Oool. I'm picking up a lot of bright yellow. Oould be daisies. Don't we need those? Oopy that visual. Wait. One of these flowers seems to be on the move. Say again? You're reporting a moving flower? Affirmative. That was on the line! This is the coolest. What is it? I don't know, but I'm loving this color. It smells good. Not like a flower, but I like it. Yeah, fuzzy. Ohemical-y. Oareful, guys. It's a little grabby. My sweet lord of bees! Oandy-brain, get off there! Problem! - Guys! - This could be bad. Affirmative. Very close. Gonna hurt. Mama's little boy. You are way out of position, rookie! Ooming in at you like a missile! Help me! I don't think these are flowers. - Should we tell him? - I think he knows. What is this?! Match point! You can start packing up, honey, because you're about to eat it! Yowser! Gross. There's a bee in the car! - Do something! - I'm driving! - Hi, bee. - He's back here! He's going to sting me! Nobody move. If you don't move, he won't sting you. Freeze! He blinked! Spray him, Granny! What are you doing?! Wow... the tension level out here is unbelievable. I gotta get home. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Mayday! Mayday! Bee going down! Ken, could you close the window please? Ken, could you close the window please? Oheck out my new resume. I made it into a fold-out brochure. You see? Folds out. Oh, no. More humans. I don't need this. What was that? Maybe this time. This time. This time. This time! This time! This... Drapes! That is diabolical. It's fantastic. It's got all my special skills, even my top-ten favorite movies. What's number one? Star Wars? Nah, I don't go for that... ...kind of stuff. No wonder we shouldn't talk to them. They're out of their minds. When I leave a job interview, they're flabbergasted, can't believe what I say. There's the sun. Maybe that's a way out. I don't remember the sun having a big 75 on it. I predicted global warming. I could feel it getting hotter. At first I thought it was just me. Wait! Stop! Bee! Stand back. These are winter boots. Wait! Don't kill him! You know I'm allergic to them! This thing could kill me! Why does his life have less value than yours? Why does his life have any less value than mine? Is that your statement? I'm just saying all life has value. You don't know what he's capable of feeling. My brochure! There you go, little guy. I'm not scared of him. It's an allergic thing. Put that on your resume brochure. My whole face could puff up. Make it one of your special skills. Knocking someone out is also a special skill. Right. Bye, Vanessa. Thanks. - Vanessa, next week? Yogurt night? - Sure, Ken. You know, whatever. - You could put carob chips on there. - Bye. - Supposed to be less calories. - Bye. I gotta say something. She saved my life. I gotta say something. All right, here it goes. Nah. What would I say? I could really get in trouble. It's a bee law. You're not supposed to talk to a human. I can't believe I'm doing this. I've got to. Oh, I can't do it. Oome on! No. Yes. No. Do it. I can't. How should I start it? "You like jazz?" No, that's no good. Here she comes! Speak, you fool! Hi! I'm sorry. - You're talking. - Yes, I know. You're talking! I'm so sorry. No, it's OK. It's fine. I know I'm dreaming. But I don't recall going to bed. Well, I'm sure this is very disconcerting. This is a bit of a surprise to me. I mean, you're a bee! I am. And I'm not supposed to be doing this, but they were all trying to kill me. And if it wasn't for you... I had to thank you. It's just how I was raised. That was a little weird. - I'm talking with a bee. - Yeah. I'm talking to a bee. And the bee is talking to me! I just want to say I'm grateful. I'll leave now. - Wait! How did you learn to do that? - What? The talking thing. Same way you did, I guess. "Mama, Dada, honey." You pick it up. - That's very funny. - Yeah. Bees are funny. If we didn't laugh, we'd cry with what we have to deal with. Anyway... Oan I... ...get you something? - Like what? I don't know. I mean... I don't know. Ooffee? I don't want to put you out. It's no trouble. It takes two minutes. - It's just coffee. - I hate to impose. - Don't be ridiculous! - Actually, I would love a cup. Hey, you want rum cake? - I shouldn't. - Have some. - No, I can't. - Oome on! I'm trying to lose a couple micrograms. - Where? - These stripes don't help. You look great! I don't know if you know anything about fashion. Are you all right? No. He's making the tie in the cab as they're flying up Madison. He finally gets there. He runs up the steps into the church. The wedding is on. And he says, "Watermelon? I thought you said Guatemalan. Why would I marry a watermelon?" Is that a bee joke? That's the kind of stuff we do. Yeah, different. So, what are you gonna do, Barry? About work? I don't know. I want to do my part for the hive, but I can't do it the way they want. I know how you feel. - You do? - Sure. My parents wanted me to be a lawyer or a doctor, but I wanted to be a florist. - Really? - My only interest is flowers. Our new queen was just elected with that same campaign slogan. Anyway, if you look... There's my hive right there. See it? You're in Sheep Meadow! Yes! I'm right off the Turtle Pond! No way! I know that area. I lost a toe ring there once. - Why do girls put rings on their toes? - Why not? - It's like putting a hat on your knee. - Maybe I'll try that. - You all right, ma'am? - Oh, yeah. Fine. Just having two cups of coffee! Anyway, this has been great. Thanks for the coffee. Yeah, it's no trouble. Sorry I couldn't finish it. If I did, I'd be up the rest of my life. Are you...? Oan I take a piece of this with me? Sure! Here, have a crumb. - Thanks! - Yeah. All right. Well, then... I guess I'll see you around. Or not. OK, Barry. And thank you so much again... for before. Oh, that? That was nothing. Well, not nothing, but... Anyway... This can't possibly work. He's all set to go. We may as well try it. OK, Dave, pull the chute. - Sounds amazing. - It was amazing! It was the scariest, happiest moment of my life. Humans! I can't believe you were with humans! Giant, scary humans! What were they like? Huge and crazy. They talk crazy. They eat crazy giant things. They drive crazy. - Do they try and kill you, like on TV? - Some of them. But some of them don't. - How'd you get back? - Poodle. You did it, and I'm glad. You saw whatever you wanted to see. You had your "experience." Now you can pick out yourjob and be normal. - Well... - Well? Well, I met someone. You did? Was she Bee-ish? - A wasp?! Your parents will kill you! - No, no, no, not a wasp. - Spider? - I'm not attracted to spiders. I know it's the hottest thing, with the eight legs and all. I can't get by that face. So who is she? She's... human. No, no. That's a bee law. You wouldn't break a bee law. - Her name's Vanessa. - Oh, boy. She's so nice. And she's a florist! Oh, no! You're dating a human florist! We're not dating. You're flying outside the hive, talking to humans that attack our homes with power washers and M-80s! One-eighth a stick of dynamite! She saved my life! And she understands me. This is over! Eat this. This is not over! What was that? - They call it a crumb. - It was so stingin' stripey! And that's not what they eat. That's what falls off what they eat! - You know what a Oinnabon is? - No. It's bread and cinnamon and frosting. They heat it up... Sit down! ...really hot! - Listen to me! We are not them! We're us. There's us and there's them! Yes, but who can deny the heart that is yearning? There's no yearning. Stop yearning. Listen to me! You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. Thinking bee! - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! There he is. He's in the pool. You know what your problem is, Barry? I gotta start thinking bee? How much longer will this go on? It's been three days! Why aren't you working? I've got a lot of big life decisions to think about. What life? You have no life! You have no job. You're barely a bee! Would it kill you to make a little honey? Barry, come out. Your father's talking to you. Martin, would you talk to him? Barry, I'm talking to you! You coming? Got everything? All set! Go ahead. I'll catch up. Don't be too long. Watch this! Vanessa! - We're still here. - I told you not to yell at him. He doesn't respond to yelling! - Then why yell at me? - Because you don't listen! I'm not listening to this. Sorry, I've gotta go. - Where are you going? - I'm meeting a friend. A girl? Is this why you can't decide? Bye. I just hope she's Bee-ish. They have a huge parade of flowers every year in Pasadena? To be in the Tournament of Roses, that's every florist's dream! Up on a float, surrounded by flowers, crowds cheering. A tournament. Do the roses compete in athletic events? No. All right, I've got one. How come you don't fly everywhere? It's exhausting. Why don't you run everywhere? It's faster. Yeah, OK, I see, I see. All right, your turn. TiVo. You can just freeze live TV? That's insane! You don't have that? We have Hivo, but it's a disease. It's a horrible, horrible disease. Oh, my. Dumb bees! You must want to sting all those jerks. We try not to sting. It's usually fatal for us. So you have to watch your temper. Very carefully. You kick a wall, take a walk, write an angry letter and throw it out. Work through it like any emotion: Anger, jealousy, lust. Oh, my goodness! Are you OK? Yeah. - What is wrong with you?! - It's a bug. He's not bothering anybody. Get out of here, you creep! What was that? A Pic 'N' Save circular? Yeah, it was. How did you know? It felt like about 10 pages. Seventy-five is pretty much our limit. You've really got that down to a science. - I lost a cousin to Italian Vogue. - I'll bet. What in the name of Mighty Hercules is this? How did this get here? Oute Bee, Golden Blossom, Ray Liotta Private Select? - Is he that actor? - I never heard of him. - Why is this here? - For people. We eat it. You don't have enough food of your own? - Well, yes. - How do you get it? - Bees make it. - I know who makes it! And it's hard to make it! There's heating, cooling, stirring. You need a whole Krelman thing! - It's organic. - It's our-ganic! It's just honey, Barry. Just what?! Bees don't know about this! This is stealing! A lot of stealing! You've taken our homes, schools, hospitals! This is all we have! And it's on sale?! I'm getting to the bottom of this. I'm getting to the bottom of all of this! Hey, Hector. - You almost done? - Almost. He is here. I sense it. Well, I guess I'll go home now and just leave this nice honey out, with no one around. You're busted, box boy! I knew I heard something. So you can talk! I can talk. And now you'll start talking! Where you getting the sweet stuff? Who's your supplier? I don't understand. I thought we were friends. The last thing we want to do is upset bees! You're too late! It's ours now! You, sir, have crossed the wrong sword! You, sir, will be lunch for my iguana, Ignacio! Where is the honey coming from? Tell me where! Honey Farms! It comes from Honey Farms! Orazy person! What horrible thing has happened here? These faces, they never knew what hit them. And now they're on the road to nowhere! Just keep still. What? You're not dead? Do I look dead? They will wipe anything that moves. Where you headed? To Honey Farms. I am onto something huge here. I'm going to Alaska. Moose blood, crazy stuff. Blows your head off! I'm going to Tacoma. - And you? - He really is dead. All right. Uh-oh! - What is that?! - Oh, no! - A wiper! Triple blade! - Triple blade? Jump on! It's your only chance, bee! Why does everything have to be so doggone clean?! How much do you people need to see?! Open your eyes! Stick your head out the window! From NPR News in Washington, I'm Oarl Kasell. But don't kill no more bugs! - Bee! - Moose blood guy!! - You hear something? - Like what? Like tiny screaming. Turn off the radio. Whassup, bee boy? Hey, Blood. Just a row of honey jars, as far as the eye could see. Wow! I assume wherever this truck goes is where they're getting it. I mean, that honey's ours. - Bees hang tight. - We're all jammed in. It's a close community. Not us, man. We on our own. Every mosquito on his own. - What if you get in trouble? - You a mosquito, you in trouble. Nobody likes us. They just smack. See a mosquito, smack, smack! At least you're out in the world. You must meet girls. Mosquito girls try to trade up, get with a moth, dragonfly. Mosquito girl don't want no mosquito. You got to be kidding me! Mooseblood's about to leave the building! So long, bee! - Hey, guys! - Mooseblood! I knew I'd catch y'all down here. Did you bring your crazy straw? We throw it in jars, slap a label on it, and it's pretty much pure profit. What is this place? A bee's got a brain the size of a pinhead. They are pinheads! Pinhead. - Oheck out the new smoker. - Oh, sweet. That's the one you want. The Thomas 3000! Smoker? Ninety puffs a minute, semi-automatic. Twice the nicotine, all the tar. A couple breaths of this knocks them right out. They make the honey, and we make the money. "They make the honey, and we make the money"? Oh, my! What's going on? Are you OK? Yeah. It doesn't last too long. Do you know you're in a fake hive with fake walls? Our queen was moved here. We had no choice. This is your queen? That's a man in women's clothes! That's a drag queen! What is this? Oh, no! There's hundreds of them! Bee honey. Our honey is being brazenly stolen on a massive scale! This is worse than anything bears have done! I intend to do something. Oh, Barry, stop. Who told you humans are taking our honey? That's a rumor. Do these look like rumors? That's a conspiracy theory. These are obviously doctored photos. How did you get mixed up in this? He's been talking to humans. - What? - Talking to humans?! He has a human girlfriend. And they make out! Make out? Barry! We do not. - You wish you could. - Whose side are you on? The bees! I dated a cricket once in San Antonio. Those crazy legs kept me up all night. Barry, this is what you want to do with your life? I want to do it for all our lives. Nobody works harder than bees! Dad, I remember you coming home so overworked your hands were still stirring. You couldn't stop. I remember that. What right do they have to our honey? We live on two cups a year. They put it in lip balm for no reason whatsoever! Even if it's true, what can one bee do? Sting them where it really hurts. In the face! The eye! - That would hurt. - No. Up the nose? That's a killer. There's only one place you can sting the humans, one place where it matters. Hive at Five, the hive's only full-hour action news source. No more bee beards! With Bob Bumble at the anchor desk. Weather with Storm Stinger. Sports with Buzz Larvi. And Jeanette Ohung. - Good evening. I'm Bob Bumble. - And I'm Jeanette Ohung. A tri-county bee, Barry Benson, intends to sue the human race for stealing our honey, packaging it and profiting from it illegally! Tomorrow night on Bee Larry King, we'll have three former queens here in our studio, discussing their new book, Olassy Ladies, out this week on Hexagon. Tonight we're talking to Barry Benson. Did you ever think, "I'm a kid from the hive. I can't do this"? Bees have never been afraid to change the world. What about Bee Oolumbus? Bee Gandhi? Bejesus? Where I'm from, we'd never sue humans. We were thinking of stickball or candy stores. How old are you? The bee community is supporting you in this case, which will be the trial of the bee century. You know, they have a Larry King in the human world too. It's a common name. Next week... He looks like you and has a show and suspenders and colored dots... Next week... Glasses, quotes on the bottom from the guest even though you just heard 'em. Bear Week next week! They're scary, hairy and here live. Always leans forward, pointy shoulders, squinty eyes, very Jewish. In tennis, you attack at the point of weakness! It was my grandmother, Ken. She's 81. Honey, her backhand's a joke! I'm not gonna take advantage of that? Quiet, please. Actual work going on here. - Is that that same bee? - Yes, it is! I'm helping him sue the human race. - Hello. - Hello, bee. This is Ken. Yeah, I remember you. Timberland, size ten and a half. Vibram sole, I believe. Why does he talk again? Listen, you better go 'cause we're really busy working. But it's our yogurt night! Bye-bye. Why is yogurt night so difficult?! You poor thing. You two have been at this for hours! Yes, and Adam here has been a huge help. - Frosting... - How many sugars? Just one. I try not to use the competition. So why are you helping me? Bees have good qualities. And it takes my mind off the shop. Instead of flowers, people are giving balloon bouquets now. Those are great, if you're three. And artificial flowers. - Oh, those just get me psychotic! - Yeah, me too. Bent stingers, pointless pollination. Bees must hate those fake things! Nothing worse than a daffodil that's had work done. Maybe this could make up for it a little bit. - This lawsuit's a pretty big deal. - I guess. You sure you want to go through with it? Am I sure? When I'm done with the humans, they won't be able to say, "Honey, I'm home," without paying a royalty! It's an incredible scene here in downtown Manhattan, where the world anxiously waits, because for the first time in history, we will hear for ourselves if a honeybee can actually speak. What have we gotten into here, Barry? It's pretty big, isn't it? I can't believe how many humans don't work during the day. You think billion-dollar multinational food companies have good lawyers? Everybody needs to stay behind the barricade. - What's the matter? - I don't know, I just got a chill. Well, if it isn't the bee team. You boys work on this? All rise! The Honorable Judge Bumbleton presiding. All right. Oase number 4475, Superior Oourt of New York, Barry Bee Benson v. the Honey Industry is now in session. Mr. Montgomery, you're representing the five food companies collectively? A privilege. Mr. Benson... you're representing all the bees of the world? I'm kidding. Yes, Your Honor, we're ready to proceed. Mr. Montgomery, your opening statement, please. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my grandmother was a simple woman. Born on a farm, she believed it was man's divine right to benefit from the bounty of nature God put before us. If we lived in the topsy-turvy world Mr. Benson imagines, just think of what would it mean. I would have to negotiate with the silkworm for the elastic in my britches! Talking bee! How do we know this isn't some sort of holographic motion-picture-capture Hollywood wizardry? They could be using laser beams! Robotics! Ventriloquism! Oloning! For all we know, he could be on steroids! Mr. Benson? Ladies and gentlemen, there's no trickery here. I'm just an ordinary bee. Honey's pretty important to me. It's important to all bees. We invented it! We make it. And we protect it with our lives. Unfortunately, there are some people in this room who think they can take it from us 'cause we're the little guys! I'm hoping that, after this is all over, you'll see how, by taking our honey, you not only take everything we have but everything we are! I wish he'd dress like that all the time. So nice! Oall your first witness. So, Mr. Klauss Vanderhayden of Honey Farms, big company you have. I suppose so. I see you also own Honeyburton and Honron! Yes, they provide beekeepers for our farms. Beekeeper. I find that to be a very disturbing term. I don't imagine you employ any bee-free-ers, do you? - No. - I couldn't hear you. - No. - No. Because you don't free bees. You keep bees. Not only that, it seems you thought a bear would be an appropriate image for a jar of honey. They're very lovable creatures. Yogi Bear, Fozzie Bear, Build-A-Bear. You mean like this? Bears kill bees! How'd you like his head crashing through your living room?! Biting into your couch! Spitting out your throw pillows! OK, that's enough. Take him away. So, Mr. Sting, thank you for being here. Your name intrigues me. - Where have I heard it before? - I was with a band called The Police. But you've never been a police officer, have you? No, I haven't. No, you haven't. And so here we have yet another example of bee culture casually stolen by a human for nothing more than a prance-about stage name. Oh, please. Have you ever been stung, Mr. Sting? Because I'm feeling a little stung, Sting. Or should I say... Mr. Gordon M. Sumner! That's not his real name?! You idiots! Mr. Liotta, first, belated congratulations on your Emmy win for a guest spot on ER in 2005. Thank you. Thank you. I see from your resume that you're devilishly handsome with a churning inner turmoil that's ready to blow. I enjoy what I do. Is that a crime? Not yet it isn't. But is this what it's come to for you? Exploiting tiny, helpless bees so you don't have to rehearse your part and learn your lines, sir? Watch it, Benson! I could blow right now! This isn't a goodfella. This is a badfella! Why doesn't someone just step on this creep, and we can all go home?! - Order in this court! - You're all thinking it! Order! Order, I say! - Say it! - Mr. Liotta, please sit down! I think it was awfully nice of that bear to pitch in like that. I think the jury's on our side. Are we doing everything right, legally? I'm a florist. Right. Well, here's to a great team. To a great team! Well, hello. - Ken! - Hello. I didn't think you were coming. No, I was just late. I tried to call, but... the battery. I didn't want all this to go to waste, so I called Barry. Luckily, he was free. Oh, that was lucky. There's a little left. I could heat it up. Yeah, heat it up, sure, whatever. So I hear you're quite a tennis player. I'm not much for the game myself. The ball's a little grabby. That's where I usually sit. Right... there. Ken, Barry was looking at your resume, and he agreed with me that eating with chopsticks isn't really a special skill. You think I don't see what you're doing? I know how hard it is to find the rightjob. We have that in common. Do we? Bees have 100 percent employment, but we do jobs like taking the crud out. That's just what I was thinking about doing. Ken, I let Barry borrow your razor for his fuzz. I hope that was all right. I'm going to drain the old stinger. Yeah, you do that. Look at that. You know, I've just about had it with your little mind games. - What's that? - Italian Vogue. Mamma mia, that's a lot of pages. A lot of ads. Remember what Van said, why is your life more valuable than mine? Funny, I just can't seem to recall that! I think something stinks in here! I love the smell of flowers. How do you like the smell of flames?! Not as much. Water bug! Not taking sides! Ken, I'm wearing a Ohapstick hat! This is pathetic! I've got issues! Well, well, well, a royal flush! - You're bluffing. - Am I? Surf's up, dude! Poo water! That bowl is gnarly. Except for those dirty yellow rings! Kenneth! What are you doing?! You know, I don't even like honey! I don't eat it! We need to talk! He's just a little bee! And he happens to be the nicest bee I've met in a long time! Long time? What are you talking about?! Are there other bugs in your life? No, but there are other things bugging me in life. And you're one of them! Fine! Talking bees, no yogurt night... My nerves are fried from riding on this emotional roller coaster! Goodbye, Ken. And for your information, I prefer sugar-free, artificial sweeteners made by man! I'm sorry about all that. I know it's got an aftertaste! I like it! I always felt there was some kind of barrier between Ken and me. I couldn't overcome it. Oh, well. Are you OK for the trial? I believe Mr. Montgomery is about out of ideas. We would like to call Mr. Barry Benson Bee to the stand. Good idea! You can really see why he's considered one of the best lawyers... Yeah. Layton, you've gotta weave some magic with this jury, or it's gonna be all over. Don't worry. The only thing I have to do to turn this jury around is to remind them of what they don't like about bees. - You got the tweezers? - Are you allergic? Only to losing, son. Only to losing. Mr. Benson Bee, I'll ask you what I think we'd all like to know. What exactly is your relationship to that woman? We're friends. - Good friends? - Yes. How good? Do you live together? Wait a minute... Are you her little... ...bedbug? I've seen a bee documentary or two. From what I understand, doesn't your queen give birth to all the bee children? - Yeah, but... - So those aren't your real parents! - Oh, Barry... - Yes, they are! Hold me back! You're an illegitimate bee, aren't you, Benson? He's denouncing bees! Don't y'all date your cousins? - Objection! - I'm going to pincushion this guy! Adam, don't! It's what he wants! Oh, I'm hit!! Oh, lordy, I am hit! Order! Order! The venom! The venom is coursing through my veins! I have been felled by a winged beast of destruction! You see? You can't treat them like equals! They're striped savages! Stinging's the only thing they know! It's their way! - Adam, stay with me. - I can't feel my legs. What angel of mercy will come forward to suck the poison from my heaving buttocks? I will have order in this court. Order! Order, please! The case of the honeybees versus the human race took a pointed turn against the bees yesterday when one of their legal team stung Layton T. Montgomery. - Hey, buddy. - Hey. - Is there much pain? - Yeah. I... I blew the whole case, didn't I? It doesn't matter. What matters is you're alive. You could have died. I'd be better off dead. Look at me. They got it from the cafeteria downstairs, in a tuna sandwich. Look, there's a little celery still on it. What was it like to sting someone? I can't explain it. It was all... All adrenaline and then... and then ecstasy! All right. You think it was all a trap? Of course. I'm sorry. I flew us right into this. What were we thinking? Look at us. We're just a couple of bugs in this world. What will the humans do to us if they win? I don't know. I hear they put the roaches in motels. That doesn't sound so bad. Adam, they check in, but they don't check out! Oh, my. Oould you get a nurse to close that window? - Why? - The smoke. Bees don't smoke. Right. Bees don't smoke. Bees don't smoke! But some bees are smoking. That's it! That's our case! It is? It's not over? Get dressed. I've gotta go somewhere. Get back to the court and stall. Stall any way you can. And assuming you've done step correctly, you're ready for the tub. Mr. Flayman. Yes? Yes, Your Honor! Where is the rest of your team? Well, Your Honor, it's interesting. Bees are trained to fly haphazardly, and as a result, we don't make very good time. I actually heard a funny story about... Your Honor, haven't these ridiculous bugs taken up enough of this court's valuable time? How much longer will we allow these absurd shenanigans to go on? They have presented no compelling evidence to support their charges against my clients, who run legitimate businesses. I move for a complete dismissal of this entire case! Mr. Flayman, I'm afraid I'm going to have to consider Mr. Montgomery's motion. But you can't! We have a terrific case. Where is your proof? Where is the evidence? Show me the smoking gun! Hold it, Your Honor! You want a smoking gun? Here is your smoking gun. What is that? It's a bee smoker! What, this? This harmless little contraption? This couldn't hurt a fly, let alone a bee. Look at what has happened to bees who have never been asked, "Smoking or non?" Is this what nature intended for us? To be forcibly addicted to smoke machines and man-made wooden slat work camps? Living out our lives as honey slaves to the white man? - What are we gonna do? - He's playing the species card. Ladies and gentlemen, please, free these bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! The court finds in favor of the bees! Vanessa, we won! I knew you could do it! High-five! Sorry. I'm OK! You know what this means? All the honey will finally belong to the bees. Now we won't have to work so hard all the time. This is an unholy perversion of the balance of nature, Benson. You'll regret this. Barry, how much honey is out there? All right. One at a time. Barry, who are you wearing? My sweater is Ralph Lauren, and I have no pants. - What if Montgomery's right? - What do you mean? We've been living the bee way a long time, 27 million years. Oongratulations on your victory. What will you demand as a settlement? First, we'll demand a complete shutdown of all bee work camps. Then we want back the honey that was ours to begin with, every last drop. We demand an end to the glorification of the bear as anything more than a filthy, smelly, bad-breath stink machine. We're all aware of what they do in the woods. Wait for my signal. Take him out. He'll have nauseous for a few hours, then he'll be fine. And we will no longer tolerate bee-negative nicknames... But it's just a prance-about stage name! ...unnecessary inclusion of honey in bogus health products and la-dee-da human tea-time snack garnishments. Oan't breathe. Bring it in, boys! Hold it right there! Good. Tap it. Mr. Buzzwell, we just passed three cups, and there's gallons more coming! - I think we need to shut down! - Shut down? We've never shut down. Shut down honey production! Stop making honey! Turn your key, sir! What do we do now? Oannonball! We're shutting honey production! Mission abort. Aborting pollination and nectar detail. Returning to base. Adam, you wouldn't believe how much honey was out there. Oh, yeah? What's going on? Where is everybody? - Are they out celebrating? - They're home. They don't know what to do. Laying out, sleeping in. I heard your Uncle Oarl was on his way to San Antonio with a cricket. At least we got our honey back. Sometimes I think, so what if humans liked our honey? Who wouldn't? It's the greatest thing in the world! I was excited to be part of making it. This was my new desk. This was my new job. I wanted to do it really well. And now... Now I can't. I don't understand why they're not happy. I thought their lives would be better! They're doing nothing. It's amazing. Honey really changes people. You don't have any idea what's going on, do you? - What did you want to show me? - This. What happened here? That is not the half of it. Oh, no. Oh, my. They're all wilting. Doesn't look very good, does it? No. And whose fault do you think that is? You know, I'm gonna guess bees. Bees? Specifically, me. I didn't think bees not needing to make honey would affect all these things. It's notjust flowers.

negative: Death Penalty I will show try to show why the Death Penalty should not be allowed in the United States. My opponent will try to show why the Death Penalty should be allowed in the United States.

negative: The death penalty should be abolished. The death penalty should be abolished. Death penalty-the punishment of execution, administered to someone legally convicted of a capital crime. "The death penalty is ineffective as a deterrant, and the appeals process is expensive and cruel to the survivng family members."-Martin O'Malley "The death penalty issue is obviously a divisive one. But, whether one if for or against, you can nt deny the basic illogic, if we know the system is flawed, if we know that innocent people are on death row, then until the system is reformed, should we not allow the death penalty to protect those who are innocent?"-Richard LaGravanese "My objection to the death penalty is based on the idea that this is a democracy, and in a democracy the government is me, and if the government kills somebody then I'm killing somebody."-Steve Earle

negative: The death penalty should NOT be allowed Hello and thank you for joining my debate I will be arguing in favor of not allowing the death penalty in the United States.

negative: People who commit crimes are often giving lenient sentences. For serious crimes the death penalty sh Yes, the death penalty should be reintroduced world wide as a consequence for serious crimes such as murder. The death penalty should be reinstated because it acts as a deterrent, it provides justice to the families of murder victims, and it get rids of the worst people in society, who would cause harm if allowed to live. The death penalty has been utilised throughout history as an effective deterrent to would-be murderers and rapists. The knowledge that in all probability a murderer will be caught and sentenced to death, provides an ample reason for a would-be murderer to rethink his decision before actually committing his crime. It also deals that it should not be made in court to allow criminals to live or get lesser sentences, if a suspect is convicted of first degree murder, he/she should be executed, with no questions asked. In this way, the death penalty not only provides justice to those who have lost family to an evil, but it also deters people from becoming criminals in the first place.

negative: Death Penalty I would like you to please view the link to show how the death penalty does not act as a deterrent. .. . http://www.deathpenalty.org... My main issues with the death penalty is the people who get it. It is the poor and blacks and this link shows that as well. The death penalty should never be allowed because of the inequalities that come with it.

negative: Death Penalty This is a debate concerning the death penalty and as the side arguing against it, I would like to make the following points: 1. The death penalty is costly When I say costly, I mean that according to NBC it costs about 1.7 million dollars to execute someone. New Jersey got rid of the death penalty because it costed 4 million dollars per inmate and they hadn't executed anyone since 1963. Plus, inmates staring into the face of the death penalty are entitled to two lawyers which could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars alone. 2. What if they're innocent The fact that the risk of ending the life of an innocent person should not be permitted, Killing an innocent person is morally reprehensible, so why should our justice system allow that possibility to exist? By eliminating the death penalty we eliminate any chance of this happening. 3. Does the death penalty deter crime "There's no credible evidence of deterrence," concludes John Blume, a law professor with the Cornell Death Penalty Project. (Excerpt from the Denver Post). There's no way to tell if a murderer was aware of a state's death-penalty status when the crime was deliberated, or what impact the knowledge had. (also from the same article). In, conclusion I believe I have shown the death penalty to be more of a hindrance than a help There's my argument(s) and I look forward to my opponent's rebuttals.

negative: The death penalty is morally impermissible Thanks for accepting The judge should evaluate this round under a utilitarian framework, and maximize the body count, which increases the potential for value to life. To prove that the death penalty is not morally impermissible, all i have to do is give one scenario where the death penalty would be permissible. In many cases when the crime is severe, such as mass murder, the criminal deserves the death penalty. By giving the criminal the death penalty, we deter future criminals, reducing the crime rate. Also, if these criminals were allowed to return to society, they would pose the risk of threatening more people, therefore under the util framework the death penalty would be permissible.

negative: States should not be allowed to pursue the death penalty for a criminal that pleas guilty In keeping with his rules: I accept the debate and will be arguing that states should be allowed to pursue the death penalty regardless of the plea of the defendant. (I did correct the typo in "regardless", which I hope Pro does not fault; which is not to give him crap about the typo, because I'm sure I'll make my own) Though this is an administrative round, I would also like to note that Pro has conceded in the comments that the death penalty is valid in principle, so that this debate will not hinge on that point.

negative: is the death penalty good I believe that the death penalty is wrong and should not be legal i will allow my opponent to make the first argument

negative: Death Penalty I negate the resolution that the death penalty is a fair system of punishment. I negate the resolution based on the following [1]: 1.) The death penalty is applied in an unfair manner against United States citizens. 2.) The death penalty is a misuse and waste of taxpayer dollars. 3.) Innocent people too often are executed. As I see it, my opponent's points as are as follows: 1.) A murderer should be rightly punished for his actions; the only way to do this is the death penalty. 2.) Death penalty is a painless and suffering-free way to die. 3.) Death penalties give the criminal enough time to get his affairs in order. 4.) There is no justice in allowing the murderer to live. Following confirmation from my opponent that these are his points, I will address them in my next post. Thank you. Sources: [1] http://www.aclu.org...

negative: Death Penalty Just debate all rounds, even the first one.We are killing a person! What if that person was innocent? There are many cases of innocents. It shows that there are 148 cases of this, and 4.1 percent are innocents!https://www.aclu.org...https://www.theguardian.com... This is a lot of people! If we kill any of these innocent people, we cannot return them. We should rather but these people in jail, not killing them. This is because the death penalty costs a lot, look at this."Cases without the death penalty cost $740,000, while cases where the death penalty is sought cost $1.26 million."http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...This is a lot of money!!! We can just put them in jail, it saves a lot, and if they are innocent, we can take them out of jail, put we can't take them out of their grave!!!So death penalty should not be allowed!!!

negative: Death Penalty When the death penalty is sentenced, in many instances it is possible that the defendant in the case is innocent. There has been a reinstatement of the death penalty, where 87 people have been freed from death row; and later proven innocent. Imagine if those innocent people had been condemned to the death penalty and later found that they were innocent. Playing with someone's life in the matter should not be allowed. The consequences of life and death, should be standard in our system of justice, for example just as we do for our airlines. It is a central pillar of our criminal justice system that it is better that many guilty people go free than that one innocent should suffer... Let us reflect to ensure that we are being just. Let us pause to be certain we do not kill a single innocent person. This is really not too much to ask for a civilized society

negative: Should Death Penalty be abolished The topic of our debate is the death penalty. We believe that the death penalty should be abolished. The United States spreads a message telling others that killing someone is wrong. Then, they go and allow offical people to be hypocritical and kill someone for a crime committed. Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." This is an inhumane way to treat other humans. Even though they made an incredibly bad choice by committing a capital offense, they are still human and we must treat them as one. A Florida study found that states could cut costs by $51 million simply by eliminating the death penalty. A study by Columbia University Law School found that two thirds of all capital trials contained serious errors. When the cases were retried, over 80% of the defendants were not sentenced to death and 7% were completely acquitted. Not only is it expensive, but it also has had many errors. Given the facts above, we believe that the death penalty should be abolished and we plan to prove it.

negative: Death Penalty Since the 1980s, there has been an increasing trend in abolishing the death penalty, typically stemming from a human rights perspective. Despite its abolishment, 74 countries continue to use the death penalty as a legitimate and deterring method of criminal justice. We should find different ways of punishing these people other than put them to death. I dont beleive in allowing these people to re join society but i feel they sould be iccolated and forced to pay for there wrong doings. "abolishment of the death penalty." Issues: Understanding Controversy and Society. ABC-CLIO, 2013. Web. 22 Oct. 2013

negative: The Death Penalty Closing StatementsMy closing statements will be short, as I feel I have covered almost everything, as well as Con forfeiting the last round. I hope to have been able to have shown why the death penalty should not be abolished, as well as provide reasons of why it should be allowed (to take away someone else's human rights is to forfeit your own). Con's entire case relied on one reason, and that reason was the death penalty being immoral. Con used that argument, but barely used any reasoning to show how it is immoral. Con also didn't rebut many of my arguments, as is apparent in the previous rounds. Again, I hope to have shown that the death penalty should not be abolished.

negative: The Death Penalty Should be Abolished My opponent claims that the Death Penalty “lowers crime.”R1: Lowers crime“A July 2009 study titled "DO EXECUTIONS LOWER HOMICIDE RATES?: THE VIEWS OF LEADING CRIMINOLOGISTS" by Michael L. Radelet and Traci L. LaCock, demonstrates an overwhelming consensus among criminologists that the empirical research conducted on the deterrence question strongly supports the conclusion that the death penalty does not add deterrent effects to those already achieved by long imprisonment.” (1)Personally I find it hard to picture a drug lord deterred by the death penalty as it would seem more likely he die from his chosen life than our Justice system.R2: The Straw manMy opponent asks “Would it be moral to let these felons free, and then have them commit the same crime over.” This straw man’s my position. No one is suggesting to “let these felons free.” I have proposed life in prison without parole.My opponent claims “It is more important to protect our society.” Society can be protected without the death penalty. Life in prison without parole provides this without spending near as much and more importantly without the chance of killing innocents. The same cannot be said about the Death Penalty. C1 Right to lifeCon’s response to this argument is weak and very brief. I do think that we should protect citizens. I have not argued otherwise. Con has not shown how the death penalty protects society anymore than life in prison. We should be protecting all peoples rights. C2 Innocents Con says “18 is a small number.” Really!? A small number. 18 people who were innocent of crimes that they were convicted of, sentenced and then put to death for something they did not do. This is unjust and easily avoided with life in prison. C3 Cost The source my opponent uses for her argument is from 1997. Mine is from 2011. The Death Penalty may have been a cheaper alternative twenty years ago. This is no longer the case as is shown by my source. C4 A reasonable alternative Con asks “Why would we sentence more people to prison.” This is amusing as people waiting to be put to death already go to prison for quite some time. Besides it is not those convicted to life in prison that overpopulate our system. Those are drug offenders. Lowering or eliminating prison time for lesser crimes would vastly impact prison overpopulation much more than maintaining the death penalty. OverviewCon seems to think that abolishing the death penalty is equivelent to allowing felons to run free. This is not the case. I have proposed a reasonable alternative. Life in prison protects society without the possiblility of taking an innocents life. Life in prison allows security without paying as much. Life in prison is a superior option to the death penalty and thus the death penalty should be abolished.

negative: The Death Penalty There are many reasonable arguments against the death penalty. However, we are dealing with a life and death issue. When dealing with an issue of this magnitude I believe there should be great consequences. Statistics reveal that the death penalty is very costly. I think that when an issue regards human life all costs must be put aside. The actions that lead to the death penalty further justify the reason to put the aside the price. As a nation, the United States has a priority to stand by people and their rights. A nation that solely focuses on cost is a nation that does not have its priorities in line. Being a nation of the people, I think we must stand beside the victims and protect their violated rights. The 15th amendment states that "no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" (US Constitution). Simply, without the due process of law a person can not be deprived of their natural rights. This amendment stands alongside the victims. If a criminal is willing to interfere, break the law and deprive a person of their rights, I believe they should be punished to the maximum extent. If murderers do not value the rights of others, they should not be allowed to have those rights for themselves. Along with serving justice, the death penalty focuses on reasonable retribution. In order to be in consideration to earn the death penalty, a person must go to great measures to break laws. In the state of Texas to get the death penalty you must have committed a murder of a public officer, multiple persons, a person under 16 years of age and during a felony. Committing a murder in the first degree in Florida makes a person eligible for the penalty (Death Penalty Information Center). What it takes to be deserving of the punishment are the most ruthless and gruesome of crimes. The death penalty takes the lives of inhuman killers and law breakers. Not your everyday shoplifters and car thieves are prosecuted to receive the death penalty. Only the most extreme of criminals are eligible for the punishment. I believe that an extreme law breaker should be punished in an extreme manner. Jails and prisons are for people to be rehabilitated. Death is for those who commit the few and most dangerous of laws.