I mean it was like, I really felt like I was transitioning in a flying saucer between this advanced civilization at Livermore, and the stone age culture at Harvard, and Harvard was as advanced as any place in thinking about this, so it was a, what, I didn't figure this out until I was in the early 80s and by then the fir st cray had gone into the continent of Europe at an open scientific institute, the Max Planck Institute of Physics and Astrophysics. 