Diane Gallinger, and I'm a independent museum specialist and my question is for some people who are um, who have.... visual issues, they are not necessarily trained in using or working with tactile diagrams, now that I know at the Louvre, they have a program where they actually bring them in for workshops and work with let's say models of figure of models so that they get used to the feeling the full three-dimensional model and then they work to getting used to the feel of that so how that would translate into the feel of a two dimensional tactile diagram. 