I am hearing also, because now zikr is also undeniable, in the past maybe, because we are not looking we are not other ones that are saying whatever that you do you have to find a proof, you have to do this, you have to do that find proof for your own existence you think you exist? find proof find proof - you cannot so, they are saying now, this zikr circle is undeniable there is proof from everything, from everywhere from the Quran to the Hadith but they don't like tarikats, and I'm seeing so many scholars too, because they have to go according to whatever the jamaat... jamaat likes this they are going to go like this, jamaat like that they are going to go like that so they are like this, they are like that everywhere they are going so it's undeniable too some jamaats they say we want zikr too but we don't want to follow shaykhs and everything say okay lets do zikr then we are going to say 'ya Zul Jalali wal Ikraam...' 100 times they do like that zikr too they are saying, because they want it and it is undeniable but there is no ijazat, there is no permission, there is no authority, there is no secret being passed there but they are doing it because the hadith is saying if you repeat this 100 times you are going to do this, if you say this 100 times you are going to have that you are going to say subhanallah, subhanallah - so they are just going to say subhanallah, but there is no link there is no connection with that one who gave that zikr to whom? to whom? 