He gave a big demo five years ago you might have seen it and there's a lot of really remarkable things about this system one the most remarkable is this notion of displaying information over a screen over a video screen so he has this device this um this device called a mouse where you  kinda rolled around the table it's hard to explain but you can use this to point to different parts of the screen and indicate that you want more information about something that you're pointing to and it also has this notion of different views of information so you can see here we have some data that's in a list and then you can flip that over and look at that same data as this kind of 2 dimensional diagram so really start to think about how can we represent information dynamic information spatially another great system kind of about about the same time coming out of the RAND Corporation called GRAlL and this is a system for programming using flow charts on a video display and the input device here is a a stylus on a tablet and that you can drop draw these flow charts and let me show you how that works the programmer is drawing this box and just totally free handing it and he draws a box and the system recognizes that it's a box and turns it into a flow chart box so assigns semantic meaning to these drawings that he's doing he wants to give it a label so he just start writing letters the system recognizes his handwriting 1968 system recognizes handwriting turns it into text here he connects up this box to that one with the line and so on so it's all very direct manipulation if he wants to get rid this line he just kinda scruples it out and it goes away ands so really thinking about were programming means when you have a video display when you can express things in two dimensions but when i'm talking about spatial representation of information I'm not just talking about things like flow charts so um xerox has a little research center in Palo Alto with some kids over there working on something that they call Smalltalk and in Smalltalk the source code is expressed in text but um there's no like big long text file with whole bunch of code in it it's organized in a spatial fashion so here's what they call a browser so in this list here here's all the collection of classes here's all the class is that collection here's all protocols in that class here's all the method in that protocol and here's the source code for that particular method so the method definitions are text but they're not a one huge line of text they're organized spatially so you can get around the system very quickly and see what's going on so between Engelbart's NLS Grail small talk is very different ways of representing information spatially so 