Yeah er if you, what was on tonight was er on the, there was a T V programme on tonight called What the Papers Say and the editor Alistaire Campbell was on tonight, he is actually quite left-wing and this paper will, is actually quite vehement about the government, much more than the Sun would ever be, it's quite interesting, yet that is owned by Murdoch, but I have to say that I think that is only because Murdoch isn't liked in that way since  to have 