Erm  well I mean I think there's some very fundamental issues in all this in, in the communication spectrum  first of all using the phrase back to basics, what do people mean by that and that's where the, they, they have gone wrong because the problem is that here we are, four people round this table and I'm sure if all of us were asked what do we mean by getting back to basics, we'll come out with a totally different  you know set of things that meanings.