It would be impertinent to say that to N C V er, to I B M, but it might be appropriate to say it to some of the less enlightened firms, or, should John  be taking a similar line, in other words, how interventionist would you like either government or N C V O speaking on behalf of the vol voluntary sector to be, in pressing the business sector to have an overall and agreed strategy rather than the individual and enlightened strategy you put forward.