When I was working at British Airways we used to do a lot of technical training and erm it was sort of on er airline regulation, stuff like that and you could always tell the activists cos they didn't really want to  all they wanted to do was to get on the computers and actually trying out things out themselves, they  piece of furniture the activists don't want to read the instructions, they want to start putting it together and then they'd learn from actually putting it together rather than them reading the instructions and  regulation training you could always tell the activist cos they sort of always like chopping every bit, they just want to  they just want to get on the computers and start inputting numbers and they'll actually learn, they, they prefer to do that and then somebody can come round and help them out when they get into trouble rather than some of the other  which perhaps like to more  up front and that's the activist.