So we know, we should and remember of course that in the book Freud chooses two examples as Joy told me the church and the army  and these are just examples and of course Freud chooses them partly because they're very big groups so they in some ways they er exemplify the principles he's talking about because clearly in a small group like this you could say well look, what is going on is really  I mean we all have, we all know each other and it's a face-to-face group and really what happens here is an  of the dynamics  group and I think it is actually.