I think historically  although you know  historians can   much better than me, erm historically maybe the way that the rock has been worked with a bagging system and it was you know and lots of quarry men had little bits of farm as well around Blaenau especially and you get a feeling er from reading about it that er you know they have a an almost self employed attitude to their to their work and their rock and the fact that er they'd do it in their own you know wor work the rock in a certain way and this and very sort of proud erm of their work and that and From talking a lot to them and being close to you know it you feel that that that's still very much the same really you know there is this sort of close relationship and that with their em employers there was you know a lot of  you know wasn't it wasn't straight it as straight as you said a straight employer employee relationship that they was  A lot of s sort of er give and take probably and I think they were outraged at this sort of McGregor type tactic really that you know this new machine.