My Lord point eight, erm, the  evidence it all goes to insurance points, solvency and protection of policy holders  and in that regard two points, first of all why one can simply say V D S, secondly  all their justifications, even if it's true, the answer is V D S, but in any event they must sure even if, even if V D S was wrong in some way, they would have to show that the restrictions were the minimum necessary in order to achieve those legitimate policy objectives