Er this is alright we've done it informally in the past, you know I've talked to many clients some of which I handle some of which I don't and always the question is er are we giving erm a service that we can improve on, if you look  dealing with er are there any points you'd like to raise with me, all these sort of questions but it's all very unstructured er and sometimes it's er er results in us having an action plan emerging, sometimes not.