erm another area of my work is  as I er writing workshops, the writing workshops are very different from the normal writing workshops there based at galleries and they take groups of people round an exhibition recording their comments on either one particular picture or the exhibition as a whole and then with my help we put the comments into poems that are then displayed along side the exhibits, erm this work I do with erm all sorts of people with children people with special needs, disabled people and, and that's really where my interest in art erm comes in and I find that its a great leveller for people who would like to express themselves and have perhaps have difficulty by aiding, by looking at paintings and being able to see perhaps emotions or images that they, they feel themselves, so in all areas erm I find painting in my areas of work, painting influences me and has done for as, as long as I can remember.