As regards size, to come to the second point, the Government amendments still seem to contemplate that sixteen should be the norm er but in practice, I would expect a great many exceptions to be made where for example there are number of constituent authorities er as in Greater Manchester er where there's er a combination of urban areas and large rural areas, or where the authority tends to function through a lot of sub-committees each of which have to be manned as in Greater Man as in Merseyside.