Yes I suppose it's true that for somebody like me I've been involved in quite a lot of different groups over over the years  and the quarry men's support group is  it's difficult to put in words really er  exactly how it's erm  you know I think it's very easy f for groups to become sort of s set really and er well I've always wanted it to to involve everybody and  I think it does that in a way it sort of er it's quite special to all of us in in a funny sort of way it's er you know we feel quite committed.