she was one of the first anyway, so er, but it took a long time before she had them, five years' wait, and she said, that, at the last attempt she said to her husband that's it now, if it doesn't work this time, that's it, I'm not having any more attempts, that's it definitely, and they had that successfully and that's how they had the twins, so they're her children, they are their children, it's just they were fertilized outside the womb, in a glass dish  it's fascinating in't it?she said it's really fascinating I can assure you  I said oh I can see 