right, and I look over to Roger and Roger's flicking through his notes like this and as you, you were peeping through and he's trying to find out what, what he's talking about, they're not looking at each other and anyway at the end of it, er we went through it and at the end of it  he turned round and went  how was it, what were you playing at, what was that spiel that you gave  it's in my brief, that's one of my objections