We, we do find it as a, as a group very difficult to organise ourselves and for us to have some time to sit down together and feed off one another and talk about it so this is quite, that's quite hopeful, and I think that does show erm, something the same as er, I'm sure Jack would say the same thing, like here we are, you know, we've got all the incoming calls, we've got all the other stuff to do, and what we're actually doing when we're trying to make appointments and so on is we, we fit it in, because we're half way through  