sometimes it may be to do with dress, demeanour, mannerisms, you know, kind of again you know people go for  oh I don't know, I mean there's a conversation er I remember overhearing erm  with some friends in Leicester and they, they go to motorbike rallies a lot and erm er they were describing an incident where they pitched their tent at a rally and some blokes came up and pitched their tent next to them and they were erm two blokes had arrived together on the same enormous immaculate motorbike and they'd got sort of matching leather outfits erm