Being  certainly lost an opportunity by not being it's only body there is an editing element in the book publishing section from the P G B and there are elements relating to us in the S P G  of the Periodical Training Council and there will be bits of them in the public relations in the marketing one of which I've got a copy of the draft, but  you know there is nothing all embracing B T E C do graphics and journalism but there is no single forum, I mean that's what so astonishing and interestingly somebody at B T E C told me the other day there's been a bit of a problem about the the book editing part of the editing level three element um, and that's partly political as to editing versus production because production's level four and editing is level three, and that has made some problems apparently