TEXT: barke002
  Sep 11, 2003 
  Here we are with a completely blank slate. How do we propose 
  to do this? I cannot spend too much time on teaching Tsolyani 
  each day, but I'll try to "get round hhe class."
  What kinds of exercises do youwant me to offer? I am not sure I 
  can type Tsolyani characters into my documents, but I have a 
  brand new, lovely Mac font. I can make "pictures" with an 
  ilustration programme of Tsolyani words and sentences. Then I 
  can send you these as if they were JPEGS or something.
  Let me know how we might proceed!
  Chegukh.
  Phil
  barke002
  Sep 11, 2003 
  Dear Colleagues,
  The following is ccorrect
  tusmiremra mikfa'ar, lum razhi taino.
  "From the meeting of you, I am in a state of happiness."
  tusmire = you of discourse before the people
  -mra = possessive ending
  lum = I (middle class)
  razhi = happiness, gladness
  taino = marks "in a state of ...ing"
  This is just a guess. The bit on p.46 uses "tusmimra", i.e. "tusmi" +
  "mra", so I think "tusmire" would take "mra" as well to get the same
  meaning.
  My reply:
  
  Very good. You may ask why /fa'ar/ "to meet" is used with /mik-/ 
  "from" in this sentence but with /tla-/ "object marker" on the same 
  page in /chegukh, fa'arli maisur, lummra tlahakhi/ "please meet my 
  brother." The answer is that the sentences are really different. In the 
  first one, "being happy" is crucial; you are happy *from* meeting 
  someone. (Note: not /pag-/ "with") . In the second sentence, /fa'ar/ is 
  the active verb: "meeting *him.*" This is not analogous to English "I 
  met you" vs. "I met with you." What differences do you see in these 
  English questions?
  The speaker does have the option of saying /tlatusmire mikfa'ar/ "from 
  meeting you (direct object)." "He is happy meeting *you*; /tusmiremra/ 
  stresses that he is made "happy from (= by) *your* meeting." The /tla-
  / stresses the action of /fa'ar/; the /-mra/ stresses his reason for 
  being happy.
  This may be good Tsolyani, but it is getting a little difficult for 
  those who are not linguists or semanticists!
  And I thought I could explain this easily! We could always start with 
  simpler issues!
  Phil
  barke002
  Sep 12, 2003
  Most Tsolyani sentences consist of a subject (a noun or pronoun, or a 
  phrase containing one or more of these) + a predicate (a verb or verbal 
  phrase, possibly including an object (the person or thing on which the 
  verb acts.
  /lum mule/ "I go." This is an "intransitive" verb; it does not "take an 
  object; i.e. I can't say *"I go him." Idiomatic usages like "He went 
  the distance" are not directly translatable into Tsolyani. Another 
  idiom or construction must be used.
  */lum dimlal/ "I hit." A verb that can "take an object" is a 
  "transitive" verb. Tsolyani almost always requires a "transitive verb" 
  to have a pronoun or demonstrative object, even though this sounds 
  strange in English. A noun object can can be added, but the pronoun or 
  demonstrative stays! One cannot say just */lum pagal/ "I see." One has 
  to say at least /lum pagal masun/ "I see it." "I see the house" is thus 
  /lum pagal masun, tlaveshu/. "I see it, the house." To drop the /masun/ 
  will get you whacked on the knuckles in any temple school in the 
  Empire. No excuses!
  
  Tsolyani has an "object marker" (an "accusative prefix"): /tla-/. You 
  can't omit this either. The stem of "house" is /veshu/; if you do not 
  put a prefix on this word, you must add the "nonhonoric" suffix /-ikh/ 
  (or /-kh/ after vowels). Thus, "My house is big" is /lummra veshukh 
  dalin gual." "My" (/lummra/) is not a prefix, and so /-kh/ must occur. 
  If a prefix is added, the /-ikh/-/-kh/ does not occur. Thus, the /tla-/ 
  "object marker" causes the suffix /-ikh/-/-kh/ to drop. This is true of 
  all prefixes: /molveshu/, "to the house," /hiveshu/ "of the house," /
  bruveshu/ "in the house," etc.
  barke002
  Sep 12, 2003
  Let's look at "locative" prefixes. "Locative" = "relating to place," 
  although not all of these are strictly in this semantiic category. In 
  English these are "prepositions." In Tsolyani they are "prepositional 
  prefixes," if you prefer
  Some prefixes are: /hi-/ "of"; /mik-/ "from/; /tham-/ "by. with, 
  using"; /pag-/ "with, in the company of"; /bru-/ "in, into"; /chalu-/ 
  "for, on behalf of"; /som-/ "upon, on, above"; /san-/ "under, beneath, 
  below," /mol-/ "to, toward." There are many of these! See Lesson 6 in 
  Curtis Scott's "Primer."
  Examples: /gurengveshu/ "in front of the house"; /jilveshu/ "about, 
  concerning, the house" /mikveshu/ "from the house" /hatsveshu/ " "near 
  the house," /pasngosa/ "across the river." (Remember that /ng/ is a 
  single sound, the "ng" of "sing.)
  You will need three suffixes right away: /ikh/-/-kh/ "ignoble noun"; 
  /-koi/ "noble noun"; and /-yal/ "plural of either noble or ignoble 
  nouns. Note that /korun/ "book is " is noble by custom. So is /basrim/ 
  "man," and those nouns that reer to honoured professions. Women, many 
  lower class men, aninals, and inanimate objects are "ignoble." Never 
  let it be said that the Tsolyani are not chauvinists! There are also 
  noble women, of course, who take /-koi/. For example, an "Aridani" is a 
  woman who has declared herself independenct of clan and other 
  strictures -- she has become legally a "man." Leave out /-koi/ when 
  referring to her, and she may well take you to the cleaners (which is 
  not a Tsolyani idiom, so don't bother trying to translate it!)
  Here are a few nouns to begin with: /au'urikh/ "pen"; /korunkoi/ 
  "book," /kasikoi/ "captain (military)," /hruchanmekh/ "paper"; /chlen/ 
  "large draft animal peculiar to Tekumel"; /humedhikh/ "woman" (/dh/ is 
  the "th" of "this"; "th" is the "th" of "thigh"); /taqunikh/ "floor, 
  ground"; /drichanikh/ "forest."
  
  Say: "with the pen," "in the book," "on the house," "from the forest," 
  "with the woman" ("in the company of," not "with" in the sense of using 
  her like a tool!) and as many more as you need to practive the 
  vocabulary.
  We'll get to some simple sentences next time.
  barke002
  Sep 13, 2003 
  Dear Edward (if I may be informal)
  For me, the first phrase indicates that the
  person is the crucial bit. 
  It doesn't matter if the encounter was planned
  or not, the key point 
  the speaker is trying to emphasize is the
  person. It the second the 
  person being met is secondary to the meeting 
  itself.
  I've had several different opinions about the semantic differences 
  between these two English sentences. Your ideas are as good as the 
  others. 
  So, if I understand correctly, when we construct 
  our sentences we need 
  to be aware of what we want to emphasize because 
  that will change which 
  word gets which modifier.
  You can only try. It is very hard to succeed at this level with a 
  really foreign language. My wife (who is from Pakistan) still snoorts 
  politely at some of my excursions into Urdu.
  The fact the issues are complex doesn't bother me. 
  I realize that as 
  English speakers we tend to have lots of 
  unexamined assumptions in our 
  use of the language. I'm saving all the emails so 
  that I can refer 
  back to them. If I didn't understand it the first 
  time around I'm 
  hoping I get that 'Aha!' moment of comprehension 
  
  latter on. :-)
  I'm happy to work with you. People do make interesting mistakes when 
  they try to learn a foreign tongue. I haven't had anybody ask me how to 
  say "He bought the farm" in Tsolyani yet, though... Not with our modern 
  English idiomatic meaniing, that is.
  I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying we 
  appreciate some of your 
  limited and valuable time, so where ever you would 
  like to start is 
  great.
  I'm going to start very simply: at about the level of Curtis Scott's 
  excellent "Tsolyani Primer." I'll post some things in Roman ("English")
  script -- what I call "phonemic" script, but don't let the linguistic 
  term throw you. I'll also put some items in Tsolyani script in the 
  "photos" section for you all to download (to enlarge them), copy (for 
  script practice), and translate. If you want feedback on something, 
  just post your questions on this list, and I'll try to reply.
  Phil
  barke002
  Sep 13, 2003 
  Here're some thoughts on expressing "See Harsan run" in Tsolyani. It is 
  not as swift and simple as it is in English -- but that's languages for 
  you!
  Dear Bob,
  What you want is the "imperative" = an order. The subject of an order 
  is always second person: "(you) see!." Try /pagalli/ or /pagallittusmi/
  You can use a possessive object: "See the running of Harsan" by
  saying /pagalli masun, harsanmra tlatlatsir/ "See (it), the running of 
  Harsan."
  If you want to focus on Harsan and have his running as secondary, you 
  can say /pagalli maisur, tlaharsan tlatsirai./ "See him, Harsan (while 
  he is) running" Oh look, Bob, a temporal absolutive! p.28 in the 
  "Grammar."
  I suspect the Professor will weep, [oh, I did!] since this is dead 
  wrong and the best I can do. However, it does demonstrate how much 
  work he has ahead of him [Indeed!]
  
  "Pagal Harsan tlatsir"
  Now, one of the problems I perceive (but cannot fathom how to
  correct) in this sentence is that it assumes some kind of subject,
  i.e. "I see Harsan run" or "You, observe Harsan run." My guess is
  that English pulls these tricks all the time, but Tsolyani won't have
  any of it. So if it's first person it would be
  "Lum pagal Harsan tlatsir."
  But then I recall that with nouns you need a "tla", so I am guessing
  it should be
  "Lum pagal tlaHarsan tlatsir." [closer!]
  I'm not entirely sure about the verb, what its tense would be.
  Presumably if Harsan were running from Ssu it would be intense, in
  which case
  "Lum pagal tlaHarsan kutlatsir." [/pagalli maisur, tlaharsan 
  kutlatsirai/ (= See him, Harsan (as he is) running." A wonderful 
  temporal absolutve!]
  If it were second person I suspect it would be something like
  "Tusmi pagal tlaHarsan kutlatsir." [right person, but you need the 
  imperative and the temporal absolutive suffix /-ai/.]
  This also brings up the question of capitalizing people's names, but
  that's another question. [You can't in Tsolyani. You can't in Arabic, 
  hindi, and other languages either.]
  Okay, having made my attempts, I stand ready for correction, adopting
  the pose against the pillar. [I shall now summon Kadesh...]
  barke002
  Sep 14, 2003
  Dear Fred,
  I tried to use the "reply" command again to answer you, but again my 
  reply did not get up on this list. I may need some tutoring, or Yahoo 
  may need some un-glitchification! If it does appear later, I'll 
  apologise to the Yahoo folks!
  
  Yes, you are welcome to use capital letters for proper names if it 
  helps you. The Tsolyani do not have such a feature/ In fancier 
  correspondence, they may put a proper name in colured inks, sprinkle 
  gold dust over it, surround it with a little circle or aura of
  another 
  colour of ink, etc. I have just put an Imperial letter written by 
  Prince (now Emperor) Mirusiya's scribes into the "photos" section of 
  this list. I don't expect you to read it yet, but look at it and see
  if 
  you can figure out any proper names. State documents are not usually 
  this fancy, but this is a Prince of thhe Empire writing to his 
  adherents!
  Phil
  barke002
  Sep 14, 2003 
  Dear Rob,
  Your answers were all correct; one of my words was wrong!!! Poor 
  eyesight versus this teensy Yahoo print! The word for "pen" starts with 
  an"s"-- /su'ur/ -- and not an "a". Sorry! I'll send off some more 
  materials soon.
  barke002
  Sep 14, 2003
  Sijaktoyal! (Students)
  This idea may be a total flop, but it may work if you want to go on to 
  use the Tsolyani font for the computer. Right now my font is only for 
  the Mac, but I gather there is a PC font already up on the Tekumel 
  egroup in the "Files" section. You do *not* have to type in Tsolyani 
  script... yet. Use my "Roman" (English or "phonemic" script, and you'll 
  be fine.
  I'm going to take the symbols on the American English keyboard and 
  discuss the Tsolyani letter that is on each key. We'll go right aross 
  the top of the keyboard. In my Tsolyani script, the lower case letter 
  is the medial (joined on both sides) Tsolyani letter; the upper case 
  letter is the initial Tsolyani letter (the one you start a word with, 
  after a space); the "option" key on my Mac + the other letters produces 
  the final-joined Tsolyani letters (the forms you end a word with); and 
  the option-shift combination + the other keys produces the 
  
  "independent" Tsolyani letters: the ones that are not joined to any 
  oother letter on either side (like "Sü" in the name of the capital 
  city: We'll talk about the vowel of /sü/ below. (Did the umlaut ü 
  appear correctly?) Go look at the Grammar, the Primer, or near the end 
  of vol. 1 of "Swords and Glory" where I discuss all this.
  Here we go:
  The "1" key (and the upper-case exclamation point) has /dh/ on it. This 
  is the "th" of English "thy" or "this." This is phonetically no problem 
  for English speakers but may be difficult for Spanish, German, French, 
  etc. speakers. The name of a previous Emperor is "Dhich'une" -- not *
  Dee-choo-nay." We'll talk about the /'/ "glottal stop" later. Princess 
  Ma'in Krüthai once had a Shen defenestrated for saying /dich'une/ 
  instead of /dhich'une/.
  The "2-@" key has /th/: the "other kind" of "th." This is the "th" of 
  "thigh," "think," etc. as for Americans, hard for Europeans and lots of 
  other Terrans. Don't mix up /th/ and /dh/.
  The "3-#" key has /kh/: the "ch" of Scottish "loch" or German "ach." 
  Easy for some Europeans, harder for Americans and the British. This is 
  easy for Shen but almost impossible for Hlaka. I don't know why.
  THe "4-$" key has /gh/: the voiced counterpart of /kh/. This occurs in 
  Arabic, Urdu, and some other Terran languages, but it is hard for 
  English speakers. Germans may use it in a rapid pronunciation of 
  "Wagen," but it is tough for other people. Fortunately, it is not a 
  common Tsolyani letter. You can get by with "g" as in "gun."
  The "5-%" key has /sh/: the "sh" of "ship," "shoe," etc. I once had a 
  Bihari student from India who pronounced all of his "s"-s as "sh." 
  Guess which English word he had the most trouble with.
  The "6-^" key has /zh/: the "zh" of Russian "Zhukov" or the "s" in 
  "pleasure." Don't get me started on English spelling!
  The "7-&" key has /hl/: the "voiceless l" of Welsh "Llewellyn." This is 
  a major problem for some English speakers. Set your mouth to say "l" 
  (as in "law") and just blow without working your vocal chords. This 
  gives a pretty good "hhhhhllll" sound. Now say /hlaka/, /vimuhla/ (*
  not *"vimmullah!" Sorry! It's more like "vee-moo-hlah" with the accent 
  on the "moo."
  The "8-*" key has a special symbol for a doubled "l" as in "wholly" 
  carefully pronounced so that the "l" is lengthened or "held longer." 
  Contrast "holy." This Tsolyani "special letter" is becoming obsolete. A 
  lot of older people still use it to spell /jakalla/, however.
  
  The "9-(" key has /tl/: as in Aztec "Atlatl." It is not quite the "tl" 
  of English "little," but close. The "l" is voiceless and joined to the 
  "t"; it is not a separate "ull" sound, as in English "little." English, 
  German, French, etc. lack this.
  The "0-)" key has /ts/; this is easy for English speakers. It is the 
  "ts" of "hats" or "pots." Russian has this, too, in words like "tsar."
  The "--_" key has /ng/: the "ng" of "sing, "bang." This can occur at 
  the beginning of words in Tsolyani: e.g. /ngangmuru/ "Greetings!" 
  Initial /ng/ may be a little odd for some English speakers. Note that 
  this is not "ng" + "g," as in English "finger." It is the first "ng" of 
  "singing."
  The "=-+" key has a vowel, the first introduced here. This is the 
  "umlaut ü." Here Germans will be way out front, while a lot of us poor 
  English speakers have to sweat it. THe trick is to round your lips as 
  if to say "u" (as in "flute") or "oo" as in "boo," hold this position 
  and then say "ee" as in "be" or "see." This is tough for some people, 
  but keep at it. Note that the lower case produces a diacritic (a little 
  symbol that does not appear on the line of writing); this is put *
  under* the consonant letter it follows: "bü" is a "b" + this diacritic. 
  The "ü" is not a "separate letter" but moore like an "accent mark." The 
  "shift" position (the "+") is a separate letter: this is "ü" at the 
  beginning of a word: e.g. in /ületl/ "the nearest planet to Tekumel's 
  sun." This sound is rare at the beginning of Tsolyani words.
  That's enough for now. The rest of the sounds and the keyboard are not 
  so difficult!
  barke002
  Sep 15, 2003 
  Yes, there are many stereotypes. About the Shen, Khirgari schoolchilden 
  sing, /hu, ha, ho - he, hai, hi; dom shenrakh 'khu, khe, khi!/ "Hu,
  ha, ho; he, hai, hi; the lady-Shen says, 'khu, khe, khi!" The Shen 
  tend to turn their /h/-s into guttural velar /kh/-s. There are lots of 
  verses to this song.Some of my gamers who play Shen pick up the accent 
  nicely.
  The poem, like many children's songs, is ungrammatical. /dom/ "speak" 
  by itsef is incoorrect; it should have a "returniing pronoun" (/masun/) 
  and there is no subject. The term /shenrakh/ is chauvinistic slang; a 
  female Shen is more often called /shenche/, the proper word in the 
  Shens' own language (as nearly as humans can hear it). The verb /dom/ 
  also would normally have an "aspect indicator" (Grammar, pp 31-32):/dom 
  
  barü/ "say habitually, or as a regular practice" or /dom teten/ "say 
  repeatedly."
  Pronunciation problems are a common cause of failed or poor magical 
  results. We don't simulate these in the game -- any more than a
  crooked tax collector is simulated in "Monopoly" -- but they are there. 
  A mispronounced word does not "make the Planes vibrate," as the tutors 
  put it: /ya nopalpal mssuran, tla'ojenyal/. (/ojen/ "one of the Planes 
  Beyond." /nopalpal/ "to cause to vibrate.")
  barke002
  Sep 15, 2003
  lummra gapruyal,
  The second typewriter/computer row of keys ("q" through "\') is
  easier.
  The "q" key has a "k" made farther back in the mouth than English "k" 
  as in "kind." /q/ is "post-velar" and is produced without much 
  "aspiration." This sound is not found in English. "q" written in 
  English is a way to write /k/ in certain environments. The most 
  frequent of these is "q" + "u" which produces /kw/: e.g. "quick," 
  "quack," "quiet." There is no Tsolyani /q/ in English or any other 
  European language. The letter "q" itself is a hangover from Latin. A 
  Tsolyani-like /q/ is indeed found in Classical Arabic, Urdu, and
  sundry other non-Western languages. We *spell* words with "q," but we 
  pronounce them all with "k," even borrowed words like Arabic
  "Qur'an." The Tsolyani /q/ is difficult: e.g. /qadarkoi/ "war, battle," 
  /qirgalikh/ "a copper coin." Note that the Tsolyani script writes
  /q/, /kh/, and /gh/ with the same letter-shapes and distinguishes these
  with special "diacritics." See /k/, below.
  The letters "w," "t," "y," and "p" are as in English. There are un-
  English combinations,however, such as a voiceless /hy/ that is written 
  with /h/ + /y/, and a voiceless /r/ that is written similarly 
  with /hr/. The Tsolyani do not consider these to be "single letters," 
  as they do /hl/ A few other Khishan languages do have letters for
  /hr/,/hn/, etc. English does indeed have a "voiceless 'w'": it is 
  written "wh": e.g. "white," "what."
  The vowel keys ("e," "i," and "o") all work the same way: "lower 
  case," "option," and "option-shift" are diacritics put over the
  letter they follow in speech: e.g. /p/ + lower case /o/ gives /po/." 
  The "u," "[." "]," and "\" keys work similarly, except that their 
  diacritics are put underneath the letter they follow. The last three 
  
  keys produce "au," "ai," and "oi," respectively. The reason for
  having "Lower case," "option," and "option-shift" forms of the 
  diacritics is so that these will appear artistically over or under 
  letters that are too tall or too deep.
  "Shift" + the vowel keys gives the word-initial forms of these
  letters. These are not diacritics but separate letters that appear on 
  the line of writing. Example:/eru/ "now," begins with "shift "e," 
  followed by "independent" /r/, beneath which one inserts the diacritic 
  for /u/.
  Pronouncing the vowels is actually harder for English speakers than
  it looks. /e, u. o. i, a/ are *always* like the same vowels in
  Spanish. There is no "u" as in "but," or "a" as in "cat," or "o as in 
  "women." English counterparts to the Tsolyani vowels are: /e/ is like 
  the vowel of "ate"; /u/ is like the "u" of "flute," /i/ is like the "i" 
  of "machine"; /o/ is like the "o" of "note," /au/ is like the "ow" of 
  "cow"; /ai/ is like the "i" of "bite," and /oi/ is like the "oy" of 
  "boy." Maintain the Spanish values, and you're there!
  The "r" key gives /r/. A single /r/ is like the "r" of Spanish "pero" 
  ("but"); double it (/rr/) and you get a trilled "rr," as in Spanish 
  "perro" ("dog"). Americans and British people pronounce their "r's" 
  differently, but neither has the Tsolyani sound. The Tsolyani /r/ is 
  actually difficult Mispronouncing /r/ and /rr/ may ruin a ritual or 
  magical spell. This is one reason why the Pygmy Folk produce so few 
  proficient sorcerers: they do not pronounce their /r/'s correctly! 
  Their spells are often duds or result in unpleasant effects. The 
  children's song from Khirgar has a verse about them: /ro, ra, ru - re, 
  rai, ri; dom nininrakh 'lo, le, li!'/ Translated: "Ro, ra, ru - 
  re, rai, ri; the Pygmy Folk woman says, 'lo, le, li!'" She makes
  her /r/'s sound like /l's/. I have quoted another verse in my answer to 
  Mr. Roser's lette
  We don't simulate bad pronunciations or speech defects in our games
  (a few games do!), but poor pronnciation is often the cause of failed 
  sorcerers and uninspiring orators -- both highly valued professions
  on Tekumel. We don't simulate crooked tax collectors in "Monopoly"
  either!
  Some may see these paragraphs as nnecessary because I have said similar 
  things before, and still my players mangle Tsolyani as badly as they
  do English. Why bother with something that doesn't matter to games set
  on Tekumel? The answer is that I desire verisimilitude. I want to try 
  to produce gamers who can a least say their names and a ew other things 
  correctly in Tsolyani. It makes the environment feel more non-Terran. 
  It's more fun!
  
  barke002
  Sep 16, 2003 
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roser" <PKROSER@E...> wrote:
  > Regarding letter shapes distinguished by diacritics, I note that the
  > Arabic script does something very similar - although the similar
  letters
  > sometimes bear a general sort of relationship (postvelar 'gha' and
  > pharyngeal '9a', postvelar 'kha' and pharyngeal 'Ha' *and* 'jiim' -
  > which was probably 'giim' originally), and sometimes the letters
  bear no
  > phonetic relation ('fa' and 'qa') - the curious may refer to this
  page:
  > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/arabic.htm
  > To bring this back to Tekumel, I recall that something like the
  Arabic
  > pharyngeals occur in Ghatoni, correct? 
  Yes-- somewhat like. I have never studied Ghatoni.
  Is there a historical
  connection
  > between the sounds /q/, /kh/, and /gh/ in Tsolyani that would
  account
  > for them having similar letters, or is this merely a scribal quirk?
  The similarities of the letter shapes are due -- the Tsolyani sages 
  say -- to people "filling out" incomplete alphabetical patterns over 
  the centuries. Some scholar took the diacritic-less /kh/ letter, and 
  used it + a diacritic for /gh/, then + another diaritic for /q/.
  > I've wondered about /r/ and /hr/ in Tsolyani - I see that between
  vowels
  > there is a distinction between a tap /r/ and a trill /rr/, but when
  /r/
  > is initial or final or next to another consonant, is it tapped or
  > trilled?
  It is tapped. The trill is almost always a doubled /r/ + /r/. I don't 
  think the Tsolyani distinguish word-initial single versus double /r/ 
  and /rr/. There are (uncommon) word-final trills in Tsolyani and more 
  of them in N'lüss, Yan Koryani, etc.
  >And is /hr/ a voiceless tap or trill? I'm going to step out on
  > a limb and guess that this is one of the points on which regional
  > variants of Tsolyani differ?
  
  /hr/ is a voiceless /h/ + a voiceless variant of tapped /r/. There is 
  no voiced counterpart because /h/ is always voiceless and makes the /r/ 
  voiceless.
  > And I gather that Tsolyanis who can't trill their r's (and there
  must be
  > a few, since I've run into people learning, for instance, Spanish
  and
  > Italian, who never master this) never make very good sorcerors?
  This is so. Pronunciation is crucial for sorcery, although other 
  nations and the nonhuman species say that they have their own 
  pronunciations that "make the Planes vibrate," too -- sometimes better 
  and sometimes worse than the Tsolyani. The Livyani are extemely proud 
  of their elegant pronunciations of various sounds. They claim that this 
  is why their sorcery is so precise. It also helps to be sitting in the 
  middle of a magic-rich region.
  barke002
  Sep 16, 2003
  Ngangmuru, lummra sijaktoyal!
  The gushing of verbiage continues... The third row of my typewriter
  and the Tsolyani font is as follows:
  The first letter is "a": this has the same pattern as the other
  vowels: diacritics on the "lower case," "option," and "option-shift" 
  keys, and the initial form on the "shift" position. The diacritics 
  appear over the letter they follow in speech, while the "initial" form 
  is an independent letter on the line of writing.
  The Tsolyani "a" is pronounced like American Eglish "a" as in "father." 
  There is no "a" as in "cat," or as in "above," or as in "fate." If only 
  we used Tsolyani -- or Spanish -- spelling/pronunciation values, we 
  wouldn't hear such godawful things as "Eye-rack" for "Iraq!"
  But, then, English spelling is such a mess... Did anybody ever tell
  you George Bernard Shaw's joke about how to spell "fish?"
  Enough ranting! The keys "s" through "l" produce the same Tsolyani 
  letters: /s, d, f, g, h, j, k, l/. These all are as described for 
  previous consonant letters. /g/ is always the "g" of "gun" and never 
  those of "oblige" or "gym." /j/ is the "g" of "gym" (or "Jim"), and 
  /zh/ gives the sound of "g" in "oblige."
  There is a separate symbol for /ll/ as in "Jakalla." See above on the 
  
  "8" key.
  The ";-:" key gives an independent "n" as its "lower case" value. This 
  is because the "tilde" appears on one of the "n"-keys on my
  typewriter and messes up my "option-shift" position.
  The upper case ":" displays a slightly differently placed form of /oi/ 
  -- this is so one can make a pretty /-koi/ suffix. The "option-
  shift"position is blank. (If you need any special characters, I can 
  probably construct and insert them...)
  The "'-"" key has the medial glottal stop (/'/) as its "lower case, a
  final-joined glottal stop in its "shift" position, and an"independent" 
  glottal stop in the "option" position. The "option-shift" position is 
  empty: no letter! An initial glottal stop is unnecessary since the 
  initial vowels understand that a glottal stop precedes them: e.g. the 
  initial /a/ is actually /'a/, etc.
  A glottal stop is the catch in the throat (or "hiatus") one hears in 
  careful pronunciations of "the elephant" or as "t" in Cockney 
  pronunciations of "little" or "bottle." English speakers have no 
  trouble pronouncing a glottal stop -- they just don't realise that it 
  can be a consonant! Many Terran languages have glottal stops as 
  ordinary consonants.
  There are a couple of minor usage problems with the glottal stop. A 
  prefix that ends in a vowel before a stem starting with a vowel inserts 
  a glottal stop between the two vowels: e.g. /hi'anu/ "of the mother" 
  (/anukoi/ "mother"). The two words are thus connected, and the prefix 
  does not occur as a separate word. (One cannot write /hi/ as a separate 
  word and then start /anu/ with the "initial" form of "a." Never.)
  A stem that begins with a vowel does not require a glottal stop after a 
  prefix that ends in a consonant: e.g. /mikanu/ "from the mother." The
  /a/ of /anu/ is written as a diacritic over the /k/!
  This applies to proper names as well. There are no "capital letters,
  so /mikarjai/ "from Arjai" has the /a/ of /arjai/ placed on the /k/ as 
  a diacritic. /hi'arumel/ "of Arumel" has a glottal stop between /hi/
  and /arumel/, as described above.
  The glottal stop is a regular consonant, though infrequent. It apppears 
  in /dhich'une/, /ka'dai/ "bandit" (too ignoble to deserve a /-kh/ 
  suffix!), /pa'es/ "to dry," etc.
  Where would you use a glottal stop letter in the following? "from the
  rib" ("rib" is /emrakh/); "of the rib"; "on the grass" (/som-/ "on";
  /airakh/ a species of grass chewed as an anaesthetic"; "in the 
  merchandise" (/bru-/ "in"; /efarikh/ "goods, merchandise."
  
  I think we can finish next time!
  barke002
  Sep 16, 2003
  Ms. Fregni asked me to post an alphabetical list of Tsolyani letters
  so that people can look up words in "The Tsolyani Language," part 2.
  This is already there on page 94 -- in greater detail than I want to go
  into here!
  Some may ask how a "developmentally challenged" (PC for "backward") 
  society like Tsolyanu can produce such a scientific, logical 
  alphabetical order for its language. Kersonan hiTankolel, the
  Ketengku priest who invented it, was a genius. He also lived at a time 
  when many things were being systematised and studied (in the reign of 
  Hejjeka IV, "the Restorer of Dignities"). This, however, is not too 
  surprising; here on Terra the most scientific grammar and study of 
  language before the 20th Century is that of the Sanskrit writer, 
  Panini, who lived a couple of thousand years ago when my ancestors were 
  still dancing around Druidic altars somewhere in Europe and freezing 
  their ****es off!
  P.S. Panini's grammar is also in highly condensed Sanskrit verse! Let's 
  see any modern linguist (including me!) match that!
  barke002
  Sep 16, 2003
  A noun ending in /i/ before a suffix beginning with /i/ is ambiguous. 
  The root (and stem) for "food" is /mani/ It adds /-kh/ to make the 
  usual non-prefixed form. If a student saw /manikh/ and wants to say 
  "of the food," he/she can produce /himani/ or */himan/, thinking the 
  stem is */man/ + /ikh/. Tsolyani script does not indicate which of 
  these is correct. I insert a dash after the /i/ of stems where the
  /i/ is an integral part of the stem. No dash is used when the /i/ is 
  part of the /-ikh/ suffix. Thus, you'll find /mani-kh/ for "food" in 
  the dictionary. The dash has absolutely no value in Tsolyani itself.
  What is the stem of /mili-kh/ "stone?" Would "of the stone" be
  /himil/ or /himili/? Would you say " up to the end" as /kenpogurd/ or 
  /kenpogurdi/? /ken-/ "up to, until." Look up "end, finish" in the 
  dictionary. Note that there are dialect variations, and sometimes a 
  
  stem may have an integral /i/ or drop it. The word for "end" is one
  of these. The Dictionary gives the accepted "proper" usage.
  barke002
  Sep 16, 2003
  Thus far I have adopted the Eastern Tsolyani value for the "umlaut
  ü." This at least has a common European linguistic symbol, and it is
  likely to be more familiar to French and German speakers -- though 
  still a problem for Americans and the English.
  A major isogloss (a linguistic dividing line) runs right down the 
  Empire from north to south, with the Missuma River as the boundary. 
  East of the river, the umlaut ü is used. West of the Missuma the same 
  words are pronounced with a *different* vowel sound: a high, central,
  *unrounded* vowel, like the "undotted i" of Turkish (phonetic symbol: 
  an "i' with a bar through it). This is harder for Europeans and 
  Americans, although some "cowboy" dialects have it for "u" as in
  "He's jist comin.'" This is not the "u" of "just" or the "i" of "gist."
  The "umlaut ü" itself is a high, front rounded vowel: an "ee" with
  the lips rounded. The barred "i" is an "oo" with the lips spread flat.
  Say "bee" and round your lips, and you get the umlaut ü. Say "boo" and 
  spread your lips wide at the sides, and you get a barred i. Try 
  grinning ferociously and say "ooo." Don't let your mouth go back into 
  its usual position for "u" as in "flute."
  Unfortunately for non-linguists, the preferred pronunciation at 
  Avanthar is the "barred i" and not thhe "umlaut ü." You can use
  either in Jakalla. Vra uses the "barred i," and the Tsolyani say, 
  "Vrayani girls spread their lips wide and glare at you, while the girls 
  of Sokatis round their lips for a kiss."
  Why don't the Tsolyani write two separate letters for these two sounds? 
  Because they are really variants of the same vowel (i.e. allophones of 
  a single vowel phoneme, if that helps). A Tsolyani would say they are
  the same vowel but differ because of dialect. In some other Tekumelani 
  languages they are indeed separate phonemes and must be written with 
  two different letters.
  barke002
  Sep 16, 2003
  The fourth line of the font/keyboard contains "z" through "m." These 
  produce /z, ss, c, v, b, n, m/. The /ss/ is a "retroflexed voiceless 
  
  grooved fricative": the "retroflex /s/" of Sanskrit and certain other 
  languages of India. To make it, turn the tip of the tongue back up 
  behind the alveolar ridge (the ridge that runs across the mouth behind 
  the teeth) and say "s." This produces a different-sounding "s" that is 
  common in Khishan languages and others on Tekumel. This is not as hard 
  as it sounds.
  The "c" brings up a minor problem: In Tsolyani /k/ is always written /
  k/, while "c" occurs + "h" as "ch": e.g. "church," "chalk," etc. 
  English uses "c" for "k," in many words, as in "lilac." "ch" is 
  generally employed for "ch." Even "ch," however, is used for /k/, as in 
  "cholera." Many of these usages are again survivals from Latin. /ch/ 
  is never the /kh/ of German "ach." Another common mistake is to 
  pronounce /chlen/ as *"shlén." Keep "c" + "h" + for /ch/, and you can 
  hardly go wrong!
  /b, n, m, n/ give no problems, although one must look for the 
  independent form of /n/ on the "lower case" semicolon key. This is 
  because the "tilde" interferes with putting it on the "n"-key.
  The last three keys are easy. The "lower case" of the ",-<" key 
  contains ",": a comma, which indicates a hiatus and a rise in 
  intonation similar to English. This symbol occurs on the line of 
  writing.
  The "uppercase" of this key ("<") gives one position of the "doubler" 
  diacritic. Instead of writing a doubled letter twice (e.g. /mm/), one 
  puts this diacritic over the single letter and thus doubles (= 
  lengthens) it in pronunciation. The doubler is used mainly when the 
  doubled sound occurs inside the same morpheme (i. e. in the same stem 
  or root). If a doubled letter occurs across a morpheme boundary, that 
  letter is most often written twice. For example, /tlekku/ "dog" has a 
  doubled /k/, and the doubler is employed. /mikkasi/ "from the captain" 
  is made up of /mik-/ "from," + /kasi/ "captain"; the doubler is not 
  used, and two /k/'s are written. This usage is sporadic; one finds 
  older people who use the doubler almost everywhere. Nowadays /mollum/ 
  "to me," /lummra/ "my," /sommasun/ "above her, it" are almost always 
  written with two letters and not the doubler. The "option" and 
  "option-shift" positions of this key are empty.
  The "lower case" of the ".->" key provides a "period": a drop in 
  intonation and a hiatus, as in English. It is not profitable to go into 
  Tsolyani intonation contours here. The period occurs on the line of 
  writing.
  The "upper case" of this key offers another position of the "doubler"" 
  that allows this symbol to occur over certain taller letters or with 
  other vowel diacritics. The "option" and "option-shift" positions of 
  this key are empty.
  
  The "lower case" of the "/-?" key gives a question mark: a rising 
  intonation contour like that of the English yes-r-no question. This 
  occurs on the line of writing.
  The "upper case" of this key contains two diagonal bars that are used 
  like a hyphen at the end of a line to show a word is incomplete and 
  will be finished on the next line. Final forms of the letters are not 
  used: /miktuplan-kolumel" "from the beloved Emperor" uses the medial 
  form for the /n/ of /tuplan/, and begins the next line with the medial 
  form of /k/. If a fancy box or cartouche is placed around /kolumel/ 
  "Emperor," one may indeed break after the medial form of /n/ in /
  tuplan/, then start the next line with the box inside of which is the 
  initial form of /k/. In elaborate letters, etc. one can even end with a 
  medial form of a letter touching the boundary of the box, and the name 
  placed inside it, written starting with an initial letter!
  One feature that is not written either in Tsolyani or in English is 
  word-stress ("accent"). This is phonemic in both languages (as in 
  "PERmit" the noun and "perMIT" the verb).
  In Tsolyani every word has one primary stress and in longer words a 
  secondary stress or two as well. It is important to know where these 
  are and to say them properly. One says /dhich'uné/ with the stress on /
  é/ and not */dhích'une/ or */dhich'úne/. Occasionally words have 
  different stress patterns in different parts of the Empire: e.g. /
  fasíltum/ (stress on /í/) in the central Empire, and /fasiltúm/ (stress 
  on the /ú/) around that city itself.
  barke002
  Sep 17, 2003
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Fletcher & Giovanna Fregni" <
  kfletcher@c...> wrote:
  > 
  > > 
  > > Maybe I could copy out some of Curtis' basic dialogues in Tsolyani 
  > > script. Would that help?
  > 
  > It would help, but it might be beyond some of us... 
  > 
  > Gio
  La, I think our students are better and moore dedicated than you give 
  them credit for!
  I am always amazed at Americans' reluctance to learn languages. This 
  nation learns computer science, physics, astronomy, chemistry, and the 
  
  other sciences with ease, but mention a foreign language, and people 
  run away in panic! Heck, I knew little kids in India who could read and 
  speak four or five Indian languages plus enough English to get a 
  foreign scholarship! As the woman said about France, "They're all so 
  smart -- even the littlest kids speak French!"
  And I know you, Giovanna -- you know and use Italian easily and are not 
  one of the lingistically tonguetied! Some of my other gamers, on the 
  other hand... Doh! I'll bet they'd learn quickly, though, if they were 
  tossed down into a monolingual Tsolyani village!
  C'mon guys! Do not hesitate or falter -- throw yourselves upon the 
  altar! (Old Vimuhla school song)
  barke002
  Sep 20, 2003
  I just posted a photo of the manuscript lead from "The Book of Ebon 
  Bindings" both to the Photos and the Files sections to see if I am 
  doing it right. They both show up!
  The leaf itself: the centre square contains the Llyani text; the 
  vertical columns have an Engsvanyali translation; and there are 
  marginal graffiti in Engsvanyali, Tsolyani, etc. The ms. is no longer 
  intact -- before the Civil War (Mirusiya-Dhich'une, not Gettysburg, 
  etc.) leaves were floating around Jakalla for sale. :-)
  Phil
  barke002
  Sep 20, 2003
  Thanks to Jim Hoffman for uploading the Tsolyani Mac fonts! How he
  did 
  it must be a computer expert's secret -- I can't manage to do it! I 
  just tried again, and the List still won't take my versions! Tla!
  I note that my scan of the leaf from Ebon Bindings came out in very 
  large size. Why, I don't know -- I didn't have "zoom" or 
  "magnification" turned on -- that I know of. I suppose I can take it 
  down and re-send it in smaller format. You can always just go and look 
  
  at this focument in the Files section, however.
  For those who are learning Engsvanyali, I have an Engsvanyali grammar 
  that has the script and a sketch of the grammar itself. I don't have a 
  Llyani grammar yet, but one of these days I'll get around to it, too
  -- if I can find an informant... There are Llyani teachers in every 
  Tsolyani college and temple academy, but native speakers are a little 
  hard to find. :-)
  Now I'm going to go back and write a new post in English about
  Tsolyani grammar. I may have scared some of our students away with too 
  much on script, fonts, and such-like. Back to "See Harsan run!" (Which 
  is a tougher assignment than it looks -- ask my Thursday nighters!)
  barke002
  Sep 20, 2003
  Kusijáktoyal!
  Who can tell me what /ku-/ might mean here?
  The basic order of the sentence is straightforward:
  (subject) + (predicate)
  A subject is the "doer" of the sentence: the noun(s), pronoun(s), noun 
  phrases (including any subordinate clauses, etc.) The predicate is what 
  the subject is or does: verb(s), predicate adjectives, objects, 
  adverbs, indirect objects, etc.
  To take a simple example: "I go." Easy: "I" = subject; "go" = 
  predicate."
  Replace "I" with any pronoun, noun, noun + adjective, or noun + 
  modifying clause. E.g. "the man," "the big man," "the big, ugly man who 
  was here yesterday." All can be parts of the subject.
  Tsolyáni does not have a word for "a" or "the": /básrimkoi/ = "man," 
  "a man," or "the man." This is made clear by the context.
  Replace "go" with a simple verb, a verb + a predicate adjective (e.g. 
  "good" in "is good"), a verb + object (e.g. "saw him," saw the man), a 
  verb + an indirect object (e.g. "to the man"), a verb + an adverb (e.g. 
  "well," as in "he did it well)."
  These parts can each be expanded: e.g. "to the big, ugly man who came 
  yesterday"; "reluctantly gave the book to him" (= an adverb, an object, 
  
  and an indirect object). Time words and phrases are special kinds of 
  sentence adverbs: "came yesterday," "arrived at two o'clock."
  There is more to all of this, but these statements present some of the 
  basics.
  Adjectives are words denoting qualities or specifics of a noun or noun 
  phrase. "big man," "blue house," "six men" (numerals are also 
  adjectives).
  In Tsolyani, adjectives usually precede the noun they modify: /grorin 
  basrimkoi/ "ugly man"; /nráifan básrimkoi/ "fat man." Various emphatic 
  contexts require the adjective to follow its noun, too. This will 
  become clearer later.
  Adjectives do not change for number, gender, or case: they end in /-in/ 
  after a consonant (e.g. after the /r/ of /grór/, the stem for "ugly"); 
  /-n/ after a vowel (e.g. /nráifa/, the stem of "fat." It doesn't 
  matter whether the noun is noble or ignoble. Thus, /grórin básrimkoi/ 
  "ugly man," /grórin humédhikh/ "ugly woman,"
  With a noun that is *too* noble or ignoble to take /-ikh/-/-kh/, the 
  adjective ending is /-an/-/-n/: /gróran tlékku// ugly dog." /gróran 
  tlékkuyal/ "ugly dogs." You could even say /gróran kólumel/ "ugly 
  emperor," if the Omnipotent Azure Legion were not watching!
  When a noun is made plural with /-yal/, the adjective does not change: 
  e.g. /grórin básrimyal/ "ugly men," /grórin humédhyal/ "ugly women.
  There is no "case" in Tsolyani. The locative prepositional prefixes are 
  added directly before nouns. Adjectives do not change 
   and don't go in 
  
  between a prefix and its noun, as they do in English: e.g. /grórin 
  molbásrim/ "to (the/a) ugly man"; /dháli-n mikhumédh/ "from (the/a) 
  pretty woman"; /nráifan tlatlékku/ "fat dog" (/tla-/ marks the direct 
  object of a verb); /mítlanan thamkólumelyal/ "by (the) god-like 
  Emperors" (/mítlan/ "god," + /-an/ = "godlike"; /tham-/ "by, with"); /
  mítlanin thammoyí/ "with, by (the) godlike action." (/mítlan/ + /-in/ 
  because /moyí-kh/ "deed, act" is not a "noble" noun and requires the /-
  ikh/ suffix when no prefix occurs.)
  Predicate adjectives (e.g. "He is big," "The woman is pretty") also end 
  in /-in/-/-n/-/-an/. They normally come before a verb, but emphasis and 
  "sentence balance" sometimes make it preferable to put after the noun 
  or verb: e. g. /dáli-n guál/ "is big" or /guál dáli-n/ "is big." /dáli-
  n guál/ is the usual order.
  Some adjectives may also occur compounded with (= joined to) nouns. 
  These give a tighter, more connected "feel," compared to separate 
  adjectives: e.g. /kólumeldàli/ "great emperor," /humédhdhalidhàli-kh/ 
  
  "very beautiful woman" (doubling an adjective makes it superlative, 
  stronger, or more intense). Not all adjectives can be compounded in 
  this way. Strings of such compound adjectives are considered suitable 
  as high honorifics: e.g. /thamkólumeldàlisasa/ "by the great (and) most 
  powerful Emperor" (/sá/ "powerful," /sasá/ "most powerful"; /dálidali-
  n/ "very big").
  More next time!
  Here are a few terms, so you can ask your Tsolyáni friends for words 
  and phrases. Most grammatical terminology comes from Engsvanyáli (+ 
  various suffixes. The /-ikh/-/-kh/ suffixes are included below.
  bopé to modify: /viupé/ "hang onto"
  dámekh utterance, sentence: /dóm/ "speak"
  dåmqarímikh grammar: /dóm/ + /qarímikh/ "speech rule"
  dhubopékh suffix: /tu + viupékh/ "what hangs before
  hárukh pronoun: < /hórokoi/ "person" ??
  jebopékh prefix: /che + viupékh/ "what hangs after"
  khatálikh noun: /khatúnikh/ "name"
  mákh verb: /móyi-kh/ "doing, action"
  pátlekh meaning, significance : (modern Tsolyani) /pátlekh/
  pólikh pronunciation: /payélikh/ "voice, sound, noise"
  rendhúkh descriptive adjective: /randúrikh/ "colour"
  sórikh numeral adjective: /tháurikh/ "kind, sort"
  barke002
  Sep 22, 2003
  Horúyal lél humédhyal: 
  "Gentlemen and Ladies": /horúkoi/ "noble (male)
  "person," /lél/ "and" 
  (conjunction).
  One can also use /aridánikoi/ for "Lady." This denotes an
  "independent woman of status." /horúrakoi/ "noble woman" can also
  be employed. The /-ra/ suffix signifies "contemptible," but in modern
  Tsolyáni it is also used for "feminine." The presence of /horú/ (a 
  noble noun) is seen as reason enough to employ /-koi/, the "noble" 
  suffix instead of/-kh/.
  Demonstratives are a special subclass of adjective. They denote "this," 
  "that," "these," and "those." They occur
  prefixed to nouns and also independently, like pronouns, just as they 
  do in English: e.g. /màsunbásrimkoi/ "this man," /mssùranbásrimyal/
  
  "these men"; /màsunvéshukh /"this house"; /mssùranvéshuyal/ "these 
  houses"
  A demonstrative adjective does not cause /-koi/-/-ikh/ to be dropped, 
  as do other kinds of prefixes.When a demonstrative is employed as a 
  separate word, there is a tendency to use pronouns instead of the 
  demonstrative prefixes above; e. g. /máisur básrimkoi guál/ "This is 
  (the, a) man" or "He is (the, a) man." /mssúri básrimyal guál./; "These 
  are (the) men" or "They are (the) men." /másun véshukh guál/ "This is 
  (the, a) house"; /mssúran véshuyal guál./ "These are (the) houses."
  The demonstrative adjectives have a *secondary* stress (/`/) instead 
  of a louder and more emphatic primary word-stress /´/; cf. the examples 
  above.
  /ko-/ is prefixed to /máisur/ or /mssúri/ to indicate still higher 
  status." This formation is used both for males and females: 
  komàisurmrínggukoi/ "this (high) noble"; /komàisurkolumssánrakh/ "this 
  (noble) princess."
  To say "that (distant from the speaker in time or space)," one adds 
  /-ònul/ to /másun/, /máisur/, or /komáisur/: e.g. /másunònul véshukh 
  guál./ "That is (the, a) house." /komáisurònulmrínggukoi guál/ "That 
  is the lord." /mssùranònulvéshuyal "those
  houses."
  Still greater distance is made with /-jàga/: /másunjàga/ "that (way 
  over there)": e.g. /màisurjàgamünikoi/ "that (distant) palace" (primary 
  stress should go upon the /ü/ of /müni/, but the keyboard does not 
  allow this.); /màsunjàgabásrimkoi/ "that (distant)man." /mssúranjàga 
  müniyal guál./ "Those (far away) are (the) palaces."
  In modern Tsolyáni /-ònul/ has become /-o/: e.g. /másuno véshukh = 
  = 
  guál./ "That is (the, a) house."; /màsunohumédhikh/ "that woman"; 
  /komáisuro mrínggukoi guál./ "That is (the, a) lord." /komssúrio (or 
  /-iyo) mríngguyal guál./ "Those are (the) lords." /-jàga/ has similarly 
  become /-jà/ or in certain dialects /-jè/: e.g. /komssúrijà mrínggukoi 
  guál./ "He (far off) is (the, a) lord." 
  Let's try a few for practice. You'll never learn any younger! 
  Vocabulary is given below.
  This is long. She is my wife.
  That is my house. He is my servant.
  I am the lord. That (way over there) is my key.
  
  That (noble) is the governor, This book is mine (= my).
  That (far) girl is my daughter. That (over there) boy (= child) is 
  my son.
  This ship is from Jakálla.* That dog is not mine.
  Key = vayúnlukh; governor = jaithulénkoi; long = ksíbi-n; servant 
  = vísumikh; my, mine = lúmmra; lord (title) = mrínggukoi; girl, 
  maiden = thiálakh; book = korúnkoi/ (a book is noble!); boy
  = bünukh; son = ngémukh; daughter = ngésakh; ship = chlámekh; dog 
  = tlékku (does not take either /-koi/ or /-ikh/-/-akh/); from =
  mik-; is, are, to be = guál; not (general present) = yá
  *Place names do not take either /-koi/ or /-ikh/-/-kh/.
  barke002
  Sep 23, 2003
  Zirunel on the Tékumel list writes:
  I know Tsolyani language isn't normally one of my main interests, but
  there is a specific language question that I could really use some
  help with.
  Okay so there's this hot Usenani girl just started working at the 7-
  11 near me and.......
  Just kidding.
  [Be careful of girls from Usenanu! They tend to marry young, have
  many children, and make their husbands support their every whim with 
  handfuls of Káitars! They often gain weight, too, as they grow
  older. At least they speak good Tsolyáni.]
  I have been working on an essay on Tekumelani naval warfare, and
  there is a mode of naval combat I present as being the particular
  forte of the Mu'ugalavyani, and especially the Swamp Folk. In my
  draft text, I have been referring to this as "Heglethyal,"or 
  "Mu'ugalavyani-style" naval combat, but I know in the final this
  won't do. "Mu'ugalavyani-style" is fine as bastard-words go, its just
  an English construction that happens to contain a Tsolyani word. But
  the alternate term, "Heglethyal," is just the plural of Hegleth. I am
  quite sure it is not an appropriate descriptor. So what is? What term
  would a Tsolyani come up with to denote "Swamp-Folk-Style?"
  
  I suppose I could partly solve the problem with an adjective affix,
  e.g. as "Yan Kor" gives rise to "Yan Koryani", so Hegleth could give
  rise to an adjectival "Heglethyani" (or would it really be 
  "Heglethyali?" or "Heglethi?"). {Probably /hegléthi/]
  But even so I don't know if this would also convey "style" or "mode"
  in the way I need, i.e. "style of the Swamp Folk" as opposed to
  just "of the Swamp Folk." [It doesn't.]
  I can imagine a few different ways a term might be constructed, and
  conceivably all of them might be needed:
  -as an adverb, as in "They fight Swamp Folk-style" ("...in the manner
  of Swamp Folk" or "...Swamp-Folkishly"). I am pretty sure there is a
  Tsolyani adverb affix that will convey precisely this.
  -BUT it should also be able to serve as an adjective, as in "Today we
  study Swamp-Folk-style fighting" ("Swamp-Folk-style" serving as an
  adjective to modify "fighting"); can you stack adjectival affixes on
  top of adverb affixes to transform the adverb form of a root into an
  adjective? Or do you have to drop the adverb affix and transform only
  the root into an adjective?
  -or even as a noun, as in "They developed the Swamp-Folk-Style"
  (the "...of naval combat" part being understood and omitted, and
  the "Swamp-Folk-Style" hopefully being a single noun!)
  I am really hoping to learn there is a usable form that can be
  constructed by appending affixes to "Hegleth" rather than having to
  use a multi-word construction that includes, say, a Tsolyani word
  for "style" or "mode." But if Tsolyani does not permit this, then I
  would be interested to learn that as well...
  Many thanks, I hope all you students of Tsolyani have fun with this!
  Fred
  2 of 2
  Dear Mr. Zirunel,
  I certainly had fun -- and discovered a couple of things I had
  omitted from my little Tsolyani dictionary! Firstly, the adverbial
  compounding stem /-mon/ "way" is not in the dictionary (p. 21). /-mon/ 
  is found only with a few quantifiers (e.g./prú/ "one," /qúru/
  "all." or /más-/ "this" (from /másun/). You can't add /-mon/ to any 
  noun or adjective stem: e.g. you can't make */tsolyánimon/ for 
  "Tsolyáni-style."
  
  Another sad discovery was that the word "very" is not in the 
  dictionary, either. You will find it on p. 19! Bah!
  There is no Tsolyáni affix I know of that does exactly what you
  want it to do in English. You can say /mu'ónikh hihegléthyal/ "the
  style of the Hegléth," but this may strike you as awkward in English. 
  It doesn't work very well, either, if you want to say "He fought
  Hegléth-style." You can say /ssyihegléthyal/ "like the Hegléth" with 
  /ssyi-/ "like, resembling." This doesn't work as a noun or adjective: 
  you can't say "Hegléth-style is difficult to learn" or "Hegléth-style
  knife-fighting has many advantages." Some compromise needs to be made.
  There are a great many words and phrases that have no exact 
  counterparts in other languages."Style" is one of these, apparently. I 
  thought about how I would express "style" in Urdu. When I came up 
  blank, I asked my charming Pakistani wife. She repied /isTayl/ (/T/ = a 
  retroflex "t"). Urdu borrows liberally from English! In previous 
  centuries it borrowed from Parsian, and one can still say /dar tarz-i 
  Ghalib/ "in the style of (the poet) Ghalib." This doesn't give the
  modern sense of "style," of course, as in "western style jurstice," or 
  "shrimp New
  Orleans style."
  You can always ask one of the Hegléthyal themselves, but they dislike 
  talking about their language to humans. My suggestion: use "Hegléth-
  style" and be satisfied!
  Sorry!
  barke002
  Sep 23, 2003
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > [Be careful of girls from Usenanu! They tend to marry young, have
  > many children, and make their husbands support their every whim
  with 
  > handfuls of Káitars! They often gain weight, too, as they grow
  > older. At least they speak good Tsolyáni.]
  > 
  > Ah. So I can look forward to being a Servitor in Silence to an 
  > Usenani kolumelra then. Silence not only because she would
  presumably 
  > dominate the conversation but also because, unlike her, I would not 
  > speak good Tsolyani.
  > 
  
  > 
  > My suggestion: use "Hegléth-
  > style" and be satisfied!
  > 
  > Sorry!
  > 
  > No don't be sorry, I appreciate your detailed reply. Your answer is 
  > interesting, in part, ESPECIALLY because it prevents me from
  playing 
  > fast and loose with the language. If anything, it is more
  interesting 
  > to learn which concepts translate awkwardly or not at all, than it
  is 
  > to learn those which translate directly. That said, yes I did hope 
  > for a "perfect" term (perfect by English criteria of course!) but
  of 
  > course a correct one, and ultimately, correctness is more important 
  > than convenience.
  > 
  > thank you again. Glad you had fun with it!
  > 
  > Fred
  > 
  > 2 of 2
  Dear Fred,
  What I am wondering is how you're going to get past Tsolyáni
  xenophobia in the first place to marry her! Tsolyáni women don't 
  usually marry foreigners -- even Aridáni women. Even if she should want 
  to marry you, her clan will almost certainly object. I can see this 
  happening only if the girl is a real outcast from her clan, temple, 
  family, etc. etc. Of course, if she's here on Terra working for a 7-11, 
  as you said, she is probably either an outcast or someone who has 
  accidentally found her way across the Planes. Are you sure she really 
  is Tsolyáni? Arabs, Sicilians, Armenians, etc. etc. look enough like
  Tsolyáni that you can be confused...
  Phil
  barke002
  Sep 23, 2003
  
  Two small affix classes are "adjectival" in meaning. These are the 
  "Personal Attitude Prefixes" and the "General Attitude Suffixes" (pp. 
  8-10).
  Let's deal first with the prefixes. The "Personal Attitude Prefixes" 
  are few in number. Semantically, they indicate your own personal 
  attitude toward the noun with which they occur: your feelings about
  the noun or assertions about the noun (as seen through your own eyes).
  They also include time-elements -- the "time" of the noun, as seen from 
  the viewpoint of the speaker or the context. You may ask, "How do I 
  know if a given item belongs to this class or not?" Peek at the 
  dictionary entry: if it contains [pap] it does. If not, it doesn't. 
  Sneaky!
  Most of the [pap] are also nouns and take /-ikh/-/-kh/ when they occur 
  as separate items. When used as prefixes, their nouns do not take 
  /-koi/ or /-ikh/-/-kh/. Some also occur with the adjective ending
  /-in/-/-n/. Some of the latter are used as adverbs as well; for 
  example, /pálin/ (adverb) "yesterday," /tsomún/ "at dawn" (e.g.
  tsomùhadhái/ "dawn event"). /zhúlin/ (adverb) "tomorrow"; /zhúlikh/
  "tomorrow" (noun); /zhùlqadár/ "the tomorrow-battle."
  Some examples: /tupànkólumel/ "the all-powerful emperor" (/tupánikh/ 
  "omnipotence, supreme power"); /hoqòkólumel/ "the future emperor" 
  /hoqókh/ "the future"); /pàljaithulénkoi/ "the yesterday governor": 
  "the person who was governor yesterday" (/pálikh/ "yesterday" 
   a 
  
  noun); /tùplanánu/ "beloved mother" (/tuplánikh/ "affection, non-
  sexual love"; /ánukoi/ "mother"); /shàrzagápru/ "the friend (I) 
  somewhat humorously despise" (/shárzakh/ "mild, humorous contempt"); 
  /chiqévusijákto/ "the comically inept teacher" (/chiqékh/ "clumsiness, 
  comical ineptitude").
  These prefixes follow the "Locative Prefixes": i.e./miktùplanmrishán/ 
  "from the beloved father" (/mik-/ "from"; /mrishánkoi/ "father"). In 
  some northern dialects (around Khirgár, for example) these
  prefixes precede the Locatives: e.g. /tùplanmikmrishán/.
  Most of these elements also occur as regular adjectives and/or nouns 
  with the relevant affixes: e.g. /toqùmüni/ "awesome palace" (/münikoi/ 
  "palace"); /toqúkh/ "awe," /toqún kardénekh/ "awesome place, location" 
  (/kardénekh/ "place, location"); /toqùsavál/ "awesome city" (/saválikh/ 
  "city").
  For added emphasis, some of these prefixes are found reduplicated: /
  tùplantùplanhúkhta/ "the very beloved sister"; /húkhtakh/ "sister")
  Two (or more, in fancy documents) different members of this class can 
  occur with the same noun: e.g. /pàltùplankólumel/ "the
  beloved (person who was) emperor yesterday." Elaborate Imperial prose 
  
  employs many such constructions.
  Note, a copy of the "The Tsolyáni Language" is useful to keep track of 
  words introduced in these postings. Either this, or the student should 
  make flashcards of vocabulary. I identify everything I introduce, but 
  students (being only human -- or whatever...) may forget!
  barke002
  Sep 24, 2003
  Dear Mr. Zirunel,
  /-ra/ 'feminine" is probably originally derived from /-ra/ 
  "contemptible." This morpheme occurs with the usual range of affixes: 
  e.g. /rákh/ "contemptibility," but it also means "femininity" in
  the modern language. I suspect a semantic shift, as women have gained 
  greater and greater respect and rights in the modern culture.
  One who uses /kólumelra/ for "empress" had better be bowing very low 
  when he says it! If you want to signify a really *contemptible* woman 
  who happens to be an empress, you might want to be less ambiguous and 
  say something like /kólumelgarakh/ "despised empress" of use the
  prefix /korùsskólumelra/ "violently hated empress." Either of these
  will get you whacked if you say them in Avanthár.
  No Vrayáni who wanted to live would dare try to be cute using these 
  terms sarcastically or humorously.
  There is not as much "insult humour" in Tsolyáni society as there
  is in American culture. It is too dangerous. If your hearers 
  misunderstand you, you can be sued and fined shámtla; you can be 
  executed if your audience contains somebody high enough and unpleasant 
  enough; or you can be challenged to a duel. Close friends may let such 
  things slip by, but others become enraged when so addressed. I remember 
  an American acquaintance who always said "You son of a bitch!" when he 
  wanted to make a humorous insult. Unfortunately, in my last year of 
  university, we also had another friend who took every such utterance as 
  grounds for immediate retaliation. There was one helluva fight, which 
  friend no. 2 won, while friend no. 1 lost a tooth.
  If you tried using word-stress to emphasise /-ra/, it would only sound 
  strange. If /-ra/ occurs after a noun denoting a person today, it is 
  usually interpreted as the feminine of that word: e.g./vusijáktokoi/ 
  "(male) teacher" and /vusijáktorakoi/ "(female) teacher." Notice
  that the honorific /-koi/ is used in both cases since teachers (both 
  male and female) are honorific.
  
  Using puns and word-play in another society is an easy way to be 
  misunderstood. I have a lot of trouble with my Pakistani wife when I 
  try this. My American humour just doesn't come through easily.
  I was reading the description of [pap]s and I began to wonder about 
  whether or how Tsolyani might use puns and double-entendre. For 
  instance, -ra, the feminine suffix, once meant "contemptible." ra- 
  still seems to carry that meaning as a prefix, but I am guessing as a 
  suffix, the original meaning is only latent or at most a mild 
  diminutive in normal use, right? So you can refer to a "kolumelra" 
  without necessarily implying she is contemptible. But I wonder if it 
  is possible to rhetorically re-activate that latent meaning in 
  Tsolyani, and if so, how would you do it? Through word-stress? For 
  instance, if a partisan opponent of Ma'in Kruthai were to say she 
  could become a "kolumelra" but shift the stress to the final 
  syllable: kolumel-RA, what if anything might that convey? Would it 
  have any rhetorical significance at all? Would it just sound foreign? 
  Would it simply emphasize that she is a woman? Or would it invite the 
  listener to apply the "contemptible" meaning in a sort of subtle and 
  backhanded alternative to a [pap]?
  If the last, would this be the sort of 'humour' the Vrayani engage in?
  Fred
  2 of 2
  barke002
  Sep 24, 2003
  Dear Mr. Zírunel,
  Túsmidali atkané múra másun: "Are there particular Tsolyani terms for 
  "navy," "naval," and "sea battle" or for "squadron," "flotilla," or 
  "fleet"? ...or for that matter, "[naval]seaman," "[naval]captain," 
  "Commodore," or "Admiral?"...or "pirate?"
  In other words, terms for things pertaining not only to shipping and 
  the sea but also specifically to military matters at sea.Or would a 
  Tsolyani generate these by combining familiar terrestrial military 
  terms with a maritime adjective?"
  I hardly ever go down to the docks in Jakálla. The smell of that long 
  delta of mud and thousands of years of unpleasant additives is enough 
  to fell a good-sized Sró-beast! Fá! I have therefore neglected to 
  include anything to do with naval matters. The navies of the Five 
  Empires are not much emphasised, moreover, seeing that their main use 
  is to control river traffic. The coastline from Jakálla to Khéiris is 
  
  also not very suitable for naval warfare: it is several hundredTsán 
  long, blows up into dangerous storms, and provides few ports where 
  ships can put in to resupply. Ocean-going /tnékyal/ can make the 
  voyage, but it is difficult to transport troops, cargo, equipment, etc.
  General Tlanéno the Steersman offered the following: /lazhá'a/ "to 
  sail"; /lazhá'tokh/ "sailor"; /champárkoi/ "marine (soldier trained to 
  fight at sea)"; /changkenéngkoi/ "navy"; /otésukh/ "sail"; 
  /chantolüngikh/ "anchor"; /chanthékukh/ "marine voyage"; 
  /changkérdukoi/ "naval general" = "admiral"; /chanqadárkoi/ "sea 
  battle." "Pirate" is a word borrowed from the Hijajái language: /
  jrékkakh/, although one commonly hears /jrékkagakh/ or /korùssjrékka/. 
  The element /chang-/ seems to be a compound stem derived from 
  /chányukh/ "sea, ocean." It appears to be an old usage, since its final 
  nasal consonant has assimilated to the following sound: /n/ + /p/ = 
  /mp/, /n + k/ = /ngk/. /n/ before /q/ has probably also taken on a back 
  velar quality. 
  There are names for every damned spar, plank, rope, mast, pisspot, and
  whatever, too, but I'm too lazy to write them all down
  especially in
  
  this Jakállan heat!
  I assume you're writing your naval essay for "your own private 
  Tékumel." The other day I asked one of the Hegléthyal
  whether they have a special style of fighting. He replied that his 
  people, while very brave, know of no such thing.
  barke002
  Sep 26, 2003
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > > Got 'em all! C'mon, folks! Join in and try doing the exercises, 
  > too! 
  > > They're not hard, and I do so love company. Some days it's like I'm 
  > all 
  > > alone out here.
  > 
  > 
  > Alright! buoyed by success I try the previous set. And sink like a 
  > chantolüngikh. Boy do I have some serious catching up to do...
  > 
  > 
  > This is long. She is my wife.
  > masun ksibin gual. masun lummra [wife?] gual
  > 
  
  > That is my house. He is my servant.
  > masun lummra veshukh gual. masun lummra visumikh gual.
  > 
  > I am the lord. That (way over there) is my key.
  > lum mringukoi gual. masunja lummra vayunlukh gual
  > 
  > That (noble) is the governor, This book is mine (= my).
  > komaisurmringukoi jaithulenkoi gual, maisurkorunkoi lummra gual
  > 
  > That (far) girl is my daughter. That (over there) boy (= child) is 
  > my son.
  > masunjathialekh lummra ngesakh gual. masunobunukh lummra ngemukh gual
  > 
  > This ship is from Jakálla. That dog is not mine.
  > masunchlamekh mikjakalla gual. masunoltlekku lummra ya gual
  He's got it! By George,I think he's got it! (Paraphrasing "My Fair 
  Humédhikh") Very good. You may pass on to Higher Things.
  barke002
  Sep 24, 2003
  Dear comrades,
  > > The element /chang-/ seems to be a compound stem derived 
  > from 
  > > /chányukh/ "sea, ocean." It appears to be an old usage, since
  > its 
  > final 
  > > nasal consonant has assimilated to the following sound: /n/ + /p/ 
  > = 
  > > /mp/
  > 
  > I am not actually familiar with the linguistic terminology! Are you 
  > describing something analogous to the change from Latin "tempus" to 
  > French "temps," (pronounced more like a nasal "ton")... but in 
  > reverse?
  Not exactly. More like im- in words derived from Latin: like, 
  "impotent," "inhospitable," "intransigent," "incongruous," etc. where 
  the /n/ of the prefix "assimilates" to the following /p/, the following 
  /t/, and the following /k/ (= i.e. "c"). In "inhospitable" it remains 
  /n/ because the /h/ doesn't cause it to assimilate. The "h" is not 
  labial, dental, or velar. Tere is lots of "assimilation" in English.
  > 
  > > I assume you're writing your naval essay for "your own private 
  > > Tékumel." The other day I asked one of the Hegléthyal
  > > whether they have a special style of fighting. He replied that his 
  
  > > people, while very brave, know of no such thing.
  > 
  > 
  > My own private Tekumel is the only one I *can* write for! Whether it 
  > might eventually find a place in other people's private Tekumels is 
  > up to them. 
  > 
  > I wonder though if your Hegleth friend misunderstood. The Hegleth-
  > style combat I describe involves no swinging or hurling of weapons, 
  > but only the manouvering of ships. Moreover, it is not unique to 
  > them, and may not even have originated with them, it is simply 
  > associated with them because they are so good at it. I can't hope to 
  > understand the thought processes of a Hegleth, but perhaps he does 
  > not consider it "special" to his own folk. He may not even classify 
  > it as "fighting" at all.
  > 
  Okay, but I, at least, have never heard of it. It's your nickel -- or 
  sould I say Hlásh? -- or maybe Qirgál?
  barke002
  Sep 24, 2003
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roser" <PKROSER@E...> wrote:
  > > It just **has** to be said!
  > > 
  > > "so.....the "despised pirate" or "violently-hated
  > > pirate?""
  > > 
  > > The Dread Pirate...Roberts!!!
  > 
  > That would have to be /jrékkassünài/ (hope I put the
  accents in the right 
  > places...)
  > 
  > Paul
  Almost correct! Since /ssünái/ is a suffix and not a prefix,
  the /-koi/
  -/-ikh/ stays: /jrékkassünàikh/. Only drop the
  honorific/nonhonorific suffixes when you put a prefix *before* the 
  word. What comes afterward doesn't affect the presence of /-koi/-/-ikh/
  /kásigasadalikoi/ includes /-ga/, /-sa/, and /-dali/ "the hated, 
  powerful, great captain." You still have to keep /-koi/. Put one prefix 
  on there, and /-koi/ drops: /mikkásigasadàli/ "from the ..."
  
  Do you keep or drop the /-koi/-/-ikh/ in the following? /mik-/ "from" + 
  /münikoi/ "palace"; /ti-/ "through" + /saválikh/ "city"; /bru-/
  "in" + /korúnkoi/ "book"; /bru-/ "in" + /tánkolunkoi/ "Imperial
  fortress" + /sa/ "mighty"; /kenéngkoi/ "army" + /dáli/ "great, large."
  barke002
  Sep 24, 2003
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roser" <PKROSER@E...> wrote:
  > > General Tlanéno the Steersman offered the following: /lazhá'a/ "to 
  > > sail"; /lazhá'tokh/ "sailor"; /champárkoi/ "marine (soldier trained to = 
  > > fight at sea)"; /changkenéngkoi/ "navy"; /otésukh/ "sail"; = 
  > > /chantolüngikh/ "anchor"; /chanthékukh/ "marine voyage"; = 
  > > /changkérdukoi/ "naval general" = "admiral"; /chanqadárkoi/ "sea 
  > > battle." "Pirate" is a word borrowed from the Hijajái language: /
  > > jrékkakh/, although one commonly hears /jrékkagakh/ or /korùssjrékka/. = 
  > > The element /chang-/ seems to be a compound stem derived from = 
  > > /chányukh/ "sea, ocean." It appears to be an old usage, since its final= 
  > > nasal consonant has assimilated to the following sound: /n/ + /p/ = = 
  > > /mp/, /n + k/ = /ngk/. /n/ before /q/ has probably also taken on a back= 
  > > velar quality. 
  > 
  > It may be too much exposure to the sun, but isn't /jrekka/ also a very ol= 
  d 
  > (Bednalljan era?) name for Ksarul? If I am remembering that correctly, is= 
  there 
  > some connection between this deity and the Hijajai word, or is it mere 
  > coincidence?
  > 
  > Paul
  You have the wrong vowel: the old form of Ksárul is /jráka/. "Pirate" 
  hasn /e/ and a doubled /kk/.
  barke002
  Sep 25, 2003
  
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > > Do you keep or drop the /-koi/-/-ikh/ in the following? /mik-
  > / "from" + 
  > > /münikoi/ "palace"; /ti-/ "through" + /saválikh/ "city";
  > /bru-/
  > > "in" + /korúnkoi/ "book"; /bru-/ "in" + /tánkolunkoi/ 
  > "Imperial
  > > fortress" + /sa/ "mighty"; /kenéngkoi/ "army" + /dáli/
  > "great, 
  > large."
  > 
  > I'll try it....seems to me the honorific (or non-) should drop in 
  > every case except the last one 
  > 
  > mikmuni
  > tisaval
  > brukorun
  > brutankolunsa
  > kenengdalikoi
  Got 'em all! C'mon, folks! Join in and try doing the exercises, too! 
  They're not hard, and I do so love company. Some days it's like I'm all 
  alone out here.
  barke002
  Sep 26, 2003
  [gas] and also /- mra/ "'s."
  Here is a minor convolution: the "General Attitude Suffixes." These are 
  adjective-like elements that occur right after the "stem" class. They 
  denote what one may call "objectively held" attitudes towards the 
  stem: status, rank, size, and other clearly perceptible attitudes 
   
  
  including emotional attitudes shared by others than the speaker. This 
  class is rather ill-defined: what goes into it is not very clear 
  semantically. Nobody ever said that Tsolyáni is any more logical than, 
  say, Bantu or English!
  These suffixes do not affect the presence of the "noble-ignoble" 
  suffixes; these still occur after suffixes. Compare /korùsskási/ the 
  captain whom I hate" versus /kásigakoi/ "the hated captain." /-koi/ 
  cannot occur when there is a prefix, but it must come when a suffix 
  (and no prefix) is added. /zhàvusavál/ "feared city" but /
  
  saválssünàikh/ "feared, dreaded city." Why does Tsolyani have a prefix 
  that means almost the same thing as a suffix? Who can say? That's 
  language for you. Why does English have a possessive "'s" and also a 
  preposition "of" that mean almost the same thing 
   but which occur in 
  
  different syntactic contexts? Dunno!"
  This class contains relatively few elements. Some are:
  -dàli "big, great
  -dháli "beautiful"
  -jarài "noble, exalted"
  -koháya "ever-glorious"
  -là "good, useful, serviceable"
  -luché "cowardly"
  -nì "small, little"
  -nikèl "living, ever-living"
  -pè "enjoyable, pleasant"
  -ra "contemptible" and "feminine"
  -ràzh "happy, glad"
  -sà "powerful, mighty
  -shumá "holy"
  -ssünái "feared"
  -tishé "honoured"
  -yì "soft, cloth-like"
  Suffixes consisting of a consonant and a vowel (e.g. /-rà/, /-yì/ are 
  shown with a secondary stress; in reality, this occurs largely in 
  careful, isolated pronunciations and is not found in normal speech. 
  Many of these suffixes occur as nouns with /-ikh/-/-kh/ and as regular 
  adjectives when /-in/-/-n/ is used. There seems to be little difference 
  between /-dàli/ as a [gas] and /dáli-n/ as a separate adjective, both 
  denoting "big, large, great." Perhaps the separate adjective carries 
  a shade more emphasis, or it fits better into the sentence rhythm.
  /-rà/ has an interesting extended meaning: "contemptible" (its older 
  significance) and "feminine." /gadál/ "to worship"; /gadálkoi/ "(male) 
  worshipper"; /gadálràkh/ "(female) worshipper"; /gadálikh/ "worship 
  (noun)."
  A few of these elements are reduplicated for added emphasis. This is 
  especially true of the ponderous, formal prose style employed in 
  official documents. Common are: /-dàlidàli/ (with or without /--kh/ or 
  /-n/); /-dhàlidhàli/ "extremely beautiful"; /-sàsà/ "very powerful." 
  The question of two secondary stresses in such compounds as /-dàlidàli/ 
  remains open.
  This class of suffixes seems to have once had many more members like /
  -yì/ "soft, cloth-like." One informant (from Aukésha) reported that his 
  
  grandmother used to employ such suffixes for many materials: e. g. 
  "hard, metal-like," "hard, like stone," "soft and gooey, like mud," 
  "sticky," "smooth," etc. These could not be elicited in Béy Sü or 
  Jakálla.
  Let's add one more suffix: the "possessive" /-mra/ "-`s." This is in a 
  class by itself because it follows the [gas] suffixes and precedes the 
  noble-ignoble suffixes. /kásimrakoi/ "the captain's, /gadálmrakh/ "the 
  (female) worshipper's," /básrimmrayal/ "the men's." /-mra/ is the usual 
  way of making a pronoun or demonstrative possessive: e.g. /lúmmra/ 
  "my," /túsmimra/ "your." Nouns can employ either /-mra/ or /hi-/, but 
  the pronouns and demonstratives seem to take /-mra/ more commonly: e.g. 
  /máisurmra/ "his," but rarely */himaisur/.
  barke002
  Message 10 of 11 , Sep 28, 2003 
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "Ksarul" <vze23g4a@v...> wrote:
  > 
  > 
  > Greetings:
  > 
  > One thing that gets me whenever I see this stuff: It's
  > beautiful, but I can imagine how s*l*o*w*l*y the
  > government moves when you have to do everything via
  > documents with script like this!
  > 
  > They really need computers on Tekumel!
  > 
  > :)
  > 
  > 
  > Actually, the slow pace of things may actually be a bonus. Anything that= 
  is
  > actually put down and replicated to the rest of the world will be careful= 
  ly
  > thought out in all of its ramifications. Nothing like the tissue-paper
  > missives of 21st century politics which are worth nothing a few days afte= 
  r
  > they are produced.
  > 
  > Besides--beauty is a goal in its own right, and the Tsolyani script is
  > beautiful.
  
  > 
  > Jim
  Maybe the Tekumelyani do need computers, but I wish somebody could 
  teach me how to use mine successfully! Toa Tsolyáni, a computer would 
  probably be an offence against some god or other -- not pretty enough, 
  and Tsolyani printers don't take parchment very well. I think the 
  Tsolyani are incurable Luddites...
  barke002
  Oct 1 9:35 AM
  Numerals:
  Stems for the digits from one through nine are: /prú-/ "one," /gá-/ 
  "two," /bí-/ "three," /mrí-/ "four," /tló-/ "five," /gábi-/ "six," /
  hrú-/ "seven," /gámi-/ "eight," and /prutlé-/ "nine."
  The decades from ten through ninety are: /tlé-/ "ten," /sémru-/ 
  "twenty," /bílu-/ "thirty," /sím-/ "forty," /halo-/ "fifty," /látsa-/ 
  "sixty," /hrunál-/ "seventy," /gamál-/ "eighty," and /prutleníl-/ 
  "ninety." The word for "hundred" is /mríkta-/; "thousand" is /tauknél-
  /; and "million" is /¨yürdün-/
  These stems are compounded together to make other numerals: "thirty-
  seven," is /hrùbílu-/: i.e. "seven" + "thirty." "five thousand" is /
  tlòtauknél-/; "ninety-two million" is /gàprutlenìlyürdün-/ etc. Numeral 
  stems are added to one another in this way, sometimes separated by 
  commas, (possibly with /lél/ "and"): /gàtauknélin, bìmriktán, [lél] 
  tlòhrunálin nalünyal/ "two thousand, three hundred, [and] seventy-five 
  years." The system is ancient and complicated and was never intended to 
  express large numbers efficiently or quickly. Modern Tsolyáni tends to 
  count by simply writing and speaking the digits of larger numbers, 
  similarly to what English speakers do over the telephone. 
  Numerals are written from left to right (unlike the script!), The 
  simple digit-by-digit method is becoming more common than writing 
  numeral + decade, numeral + hundred, etc.
  Numbers occur either as adjectives (with /-in/-/-n/), or as prefixes 
  that come just before the Personal Attitude Prefixes: /hrún nalünyal/ 
  "seven years" is equivalent to /hrùnalünyal/.
  Numerals used as adjectives (and certain other quantifiers; see below) 
  occur with many affixes, just like nouns. /bruprú/ "in one"; /somgáyal/ 
  "on two."
  
  The number "one" used as a noun takes /-ikh/ or /-koi/ like other 
  nouns: /prúkh guál/ "(There) is one (ignoble)"; /prúkoi bruvéshu guál/ 
  "One (noble) is in the house." 
  Other numeral adjectives used as nouns take /-ikh/ (irrespective of 
  nobility or ignobility) when they denote the *totality* of the number: 
  e.g. /gábi-kh guál/ "There are the six" = there are only six. Compare /
  gábiyal guál/ "There are six" = out of a larger group. Numerals used as 
  adjectives all take /-in/-/-n/: /prún humédhikh guál/ "There is one 
  woman;" /gábi-n véshuyal bruláith guál./ "(The) six houses are in the 
  village."
  No /-in/-/-n/ or noble/ignoble suffixes are used, of course, when the 
  numeral is a prefix: /gàbibásrimyal/ "(the) six men"; /mrìvéshuyal/ 
  "(the) four houses." Quantifier prefixes larger than "ten" are 
  uncommon, though possible: e.g. /tlòhalòvéshuyal/ "(the) fifty-five 
  houses."
  Ordinal numbers are expressed as just described above, except that the 
  noun of the construction is singular, while the noun used with a 
  cardinal number is plural: /gábi-n véshukh "the sixth house" but /gábi-
  n véshuyál/ "six houses"; /hrún brushantsúr/ "in the seventh box," but 
  /hrún brushantsúryal/ "in seven boxes."
  "One at a time," "two at a time," etc. are made by repeating the number 
  (complete with its adjective suffix: /mssúri prún prún pál/ "They come 
  one at a time." /mssúri halón halón taskótl./ "They advance in [groups 
  of] fifty."
  Another stem that occurs with numerals to make adjectives is /jabí-n/ 
  "time(s)." /prùjabí-n / "once," /gàjabí-n/ "twice," /tlèjabí-n/ "ten 
  times." See below under the discussion of adverbs also.
  barke002
  Oct 2 4:18 PM 
  Dear Paul,
  > I guess that as a former linguistics student, I'm as interested in 
  > learning about the languages of Tekumel generally as in learning 
  > Tsolyani itself, and I think that some of my questions might be rather 
  > abstract or too technical - for example, you have mentioned that there 
  > are regional dialects or accents to Tekumel, so I'd be curious to know 
  > if this can easily be characterized by differences in vowel 
  > pronunciation, or consonant allophones, or voice settings (eg, the 
  
  > breathy vs modal or tense voice in some Indic and Asian languages), or 
  > degree of nasalization (I think you've mentioned that one of the 
  > regions has a sort of nasal twang - like Texas or more like Merseyside/ 
  > Liverpudlian).
  There are indeed phonological, morphological, and leical differences. I 
  haven't put many of these on paper -- some, like nasalisation, are hard 
  to put on paper! Differences of intonation (the "lilt" of some 
  languages, versus the abrupt and choppy accent of some other dialects 
  (or languages, or whatever) are very hard to "write down." All the 
  little arrows and special symbols used by dialectologists of English 
  are stil not enoough to get me speaing "native" Cockney, Alabaman, or 
  Chicago English! I have ways of "imitating" accents when I'm refereeing 
  games, but I can't even write these down to satisfy myself!
  > 
  > One of my own personal interests is in how languages encode things like 
  > irrealis and contrafactuals, how they talk about things that could have 
  > happened but didn't, or might possibly happen, but haven't yet. Could 
  > you give an example perhaps of how Tsolyani does this?
  We will be getting to the verbal "aspective" modifiers that are used to 
  indicate this; cf. p. 34 in the Grammar. I am progressng toward this 
  goal -- slowly and majestically, like a mighty Zirunel sailng up into 
  Jakalla Harbour.
  Hang in there. We should get there...
  Phil
  barke002
  Oct 2 4:26 PM 
  Dear "2"
  > I'm here too, and just posted on Monday. I am temporarily unable to 
  > read pdf files otherwise I might well have had some questions about 
  > Bednalljan (a script I have always been curious to see). Alright, 
  > here's one. On the cover of the Sourcebook the temples appear to have 
  > two types of inscription: one blocky, which I assume is Llyani and 
  > the other, more prominent one, center-background, more script-like. I 
  > guess I had always assumed the latter was Bednalljan but now I guess 
  > it isn't...What is it then? Is it Engsvanyali?
  I don't have that cover in front of me, but I think I had sent Mr. 
  Balammbo (the artist) some samples of Classical Tsolyani, which has a 
  
  Bednalljan-looking script. He did his best to copy these, though I 
  suspect that he didn't get all the letters right!
  > 
  > As for the grammar lessons, I *DO* find them useful, though I don't 
  > necessarily find the lessons alone provoke a response (from me 
  > anyway). What I find especially useful is the standard ol' 
  > combination of grammar lesson + exercises. 
  You're getting *some* exercises now. I can give you some more, but we 
  were having trouble getting the fonts to work. Do you have a PC or a 
  MAC? It is the Mac that just won't go through Yahoo. I still have to 
  try some experimentation with other font cdification methoods. You can 
  check with Jim Hoffman about his suggestions. He's on this list.
  > 
  > Bear in mind, I didn't actually think I was all that interested 
  > in "the language thing" initially. I think it was playing with the 
  > exercises that first hooked me into *really* reading the lessons 
  > carefully. I find that having to assemble the words and phrases 
  > reinforces and begins to have a cumulative effect. It also raises 
  > questions that may not be so apparent on first reading the lesson 
  > part.
  > ps. with the exercises would you rather we sent our answers to you 
  > off-list or would you rather see them on the group?
  Either way. 
  Phil
  barke002
  Oct 3 5:32 AM 
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > 
  > Look at this! as soon as you actually try to apply the lessons, 
  > questions come up!
  > 
  > I tried to make my signature more Tsolyani by translating "2 of 2" 
  > into Tsolyani. It took some puzzling. Let's face it, its an odd 
  > phrasing even in English. What I concluded was that both 2s would be 
  > nouns, with the second being a totality noun (two, or second, of the 
  > total of two). 
  > 
  > The ordinals only seem to work as prefixes though, so I could 
  
  > say "second man of the totality of two," I suppose, but I couldn't 
  > see a way to generate freestanding ordinals. Also, for the totality 
  > noun, the way to indicate it should be the ignoble suffix, but 
  > because of the "hi-" that just drops off again, so what I seem to end 
  > up with is:
  > 
  > Fred
  > gá higá
  > 
  > Is this right? It seems odd to me, but then it is odd in English too
  Dear Fred,
  The "Two of Two" name doesn't come through very well in any language I 
  know! Getting the exact sense of what you want is important -- and not 
  all that easy. A number used as a NOUN has two possibilities: either it 
  is cardinal or ordinal: /gá/ must denote "two" (cardinal) or "the 
  second" (ordinal). In the first case, /gákh/ would mean "the two" 
  (there are only two) and /gáyal/ would denote "two" (out of a larger 
  number).The ordinal number, used as a noun by itself, is probably 
  singular; a singular noun demands /-ikh/-/-kh/ if ignoble and /-koi/ if 
  noble. Your name, I think, means "the second of two (totality of the 
  number). This gives /gákh higá/ (or gákoi higá/ if you are considering 
  yourself noble).
  Try renaming yourself with something that means something easier!
  barke002
  Oct 6 10:30 PM 
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "aglorince" <aglorince@y...> wrote:
  > i'm here you might say auditing the course. i've down loaded pc fonts 
  > and have been playing around with using them to inhance dispatches 
  > i'm working on.
  > 
  > Yuninash hi'anchobel
  Okay, Andy, here's your next assignment: write your name out in 
  Tsolyani and send it to me as a pdf file (or "picture" in jpg format).
  Get it right and win an Imperial commendation.
  Phil
  
  barke002
  Nov 14, 2003 
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <scottrsprague@y...> wrote:
  > --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "barke002" <barke002@e...> wrote:
  > > If nobody's interested, I can close this group down and avoid one 
  > > heckuva lot of work! If somebody is interested, please tell me what 
  > > kinds of lessons or articles you want to see here! 
  > 
  > 
  > I, for one, am very interested! But as it is, I barely know where to 
  > begin. I've recently managed to obtain a copy of "The Tsolyani 
  > Language," the CD, and the primer, and I'm trying to learn a little 
  > bit each day - but there's a lot of information in there, and I 
  > barely know what to ask.
  > 
  > As I'm just getting started; the bits of language that would be 
  > perhaps most useful are those that could come up in a game, as this 
  > is the situation where I am most likely to actually use Tsolyani.
  Hi! In Part I of the "Grammar," p. 46 ff, there are bits of dialogue 
  and useful phrases that progress from simple to harder. You can pick 
  and choose, memorise the items that you think you need in your game, 
  and go from there. If you want to write them out in the Tsolyani 
  script, there are examples (and now some examples in the Files and 
  Photos sections of this list.) Here I had started copying out much of 
  the "Tsolyani Grammar" (Pt. I, which your have), but various people 
  complained that the "scientific linguistic" terminology I use is more 
  of a problem for them than Tsolyani is! Perhaps going from phrases ans 
  sentences that you can actually use in your games to more complex 
  examples may be the way to go. I'm happy to work either way. 
  > 
  > What would a customs official ask a newcomer? What sorts of phrases 
  > would be used on newcomers? ("Get out of my way" and such, I 
  > suppose.) What phrases could I throw out for my players, in the 
  > hopes of peaking their collective interest...?
  Common phrases are covered in the "Grammar," as mentioned above. If you 
  want a grammatial analysis of a phrase or sentence, just tell me which 
  one, and we can work from that. 
  Phil
  
  barke002
  Oct 5 6:53 AM
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > During a previous grammer exercise, I found I couldn't locate the 
  > Tsolyani term for "wife." What are the common kinship terms (mother, 
  > father, wife, husband, concubine, grandparent, sister, cousin etc.)?
  > 
  > I had a look at the relevant section in the Sourcebook and noted that 
  > only cross-cousins are defined as "cousins" while all other cousins 
  > are defined as siblings (i.e. Ego's FaSiDa is a "cousin," while his 
  > MoSiDa is a "sister"). To me this sort of cross-cousin distinction 
  > suggests marriage proscriptions and serves to identify eligible 
  > marriage partners. Is this the case here? I know close incestuous 
  > marriages are possible but not "normal" and that extra-lineage 
  > partners are preferred. To the extent that lineages are exogamous, 
  > cross-cousins will in most cases belong to lineages other than Ego's. 
  > Are cross-cousins thus eligible "normal" marriage partners (i.e. not 
  > weird or special-case marriage partners like siblings would be)? 
  > 
  > Actually, further to this, the lineages themselves are kin groups of 
  > a sort, though the kin tie may be fictive. Are there more distant 
  > Tsolyani kinship terms used to refer to people who are "related" to 
  > Ego by virtue of belonging to the same lineage but not otherwise 
  > known to be parents, sibling, cousins, etc.?
  > 
  > Fred
  > gakh higa
  Dear Mr. Zírunel ("and all the ships at sea," as Walter Winchell used 
  to say in his radio broadcasts).
  I think you missed an entry or two in the little Tsolyani dictionary 
  that forms vol. 2 of "The Tsolyani Language." Wife /hétlakh/ is there, 
  as is co-wife /hetkükh/. I also checked father, mother, aunt, uncle, 
  son, daughter, to varieties of grandson, two of granddaughter, 
  grandfather, grandmother, brothher, sister, etc. "Cross-cousins" are 
  omitted, for reasons best known to the Gods, but they can be supplied 
  if you need them.
  A distant relative -- a clan-brother/sister who is too distant to be 
  included under one of the terms mentioned above -- is a /hássakoi/ 
  (female /hássarakh/). The term /héssi-kh/ is used for "family." Note 
  
  the vowel change.
  You may be oneof those unfortunates who lack a set of "The Tsolyani 
  Language." I believe the books are still available. Carl Brodt probably 
  has them in stock, and all he wants is either money or your firstborn 
  child. (Or maybe two or three children?) ;-)
  The definition of sister vs. female cross-cousin that the Sourcebook 
  gives is essentially correct for Tsolyanu. and it does indeed carry 
  marriage ramifications.Imperial law permits one to marry almost anybody 
  (if sanctioned by the clans) - even a brother or sister, in some 
  circles and locales -- but there are feelings and preferences involved 
  that may prohibit or favour certain marriages. Cross-cousins are not 
  "brothers" or "sisters," and marriage with them is thus almost freely 
  permitted. We could go on to discuss Ya Koryani matrilineal marriages, 
  Salarvyani brother-sister marriages, etc. etc., but I think this would 
  take us too deep into the realm of cultural anthropology for a simple 
  little sourcebook. There are also affectionate terms for some 
  relatives: like English Mommy, Mum, Mom, Daddy, Pop, Sonny-boy, etc. 
  You may not want to know how the 8-sex Ahoggya classify their 
  kinfolk...! :-)
  barke002
  Oct 5 10:53 AM
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > > A distant relative -- a clan-brother/sister who is too distant to 
  > be 
  > > included under one of the terms mentioned above -- is a /hássakoi/ 
  > > (female /hássarakh/). The term /héssi-kh/ is used for "family." 
  > 
  > I have seen references to clan-brother and clan-sister, at least in 
  > English, but any fictive kin term for unrelated people not only 
  > belonging to the same clan but also the same lineage? "lineage-
  > brother" or "lineage-sister?"
  > 
  > > You may be oneof those unfortunates who lack a set of "The Tsolyani 
  > > Language." I believe the books are still available. Carl Brodt 
  > probably 
  > > has them in stock, and all he wants is either money or your 
  > firstborn 
  
  > > child. (Or maybe two or three children?) ;-)
  > 
  > I do indeed lack them. I didn't think I was interested enough in the 
  > language materials to purchase them, but that has clearly changed. I 
  > will. My child is off-limits however, Mr. Brodt will have to be 
  > satisfied with cash.
  > 
  > > permitted. We could go on to discuss Ya Koryani matrilineal 
  > marriages, 
  > > Salarvyani brother-sister marriages, etc. etc., but I think this 
  > would 
  > > take us too deep into the realm of cultural anthropology for a 
  > simple 
  > > little sourcebook. 
  > 
  > Yes indeed, the implications of combining a cross-cousin 
  > classification with a lineage structure, whether matri- or patri- 
  > could get pretty darn complicated. I tried to work some of these out 
  > the other day, and my head still hurts. Yes too complicated for a 
  > sourcebook, but in fact, the structure of marriage relationships 
  > between lineages within a clan could have some very neat effects on 
  > how power is concentrated within a clan, and how clans themselves (or 
  > elite lineages within them) might use inter-clan marriage to 
  > solidify, symbolize or initiate the sort of inter-clan economic links 
  > the Tsolyani economy is based on...I suppose different clans might 
  > actually handle this in different ways....am I right in thinking the 
  > Tsolyani not only rank clans but also lineages within each clan?
  You want mind-boggling? Look at the list of kinship terms in vol. 2 of 
  my "A Course in Urdu!" I published 101 terms, and it isn't anywhere 
  near complete! 
  There are ramifications within ramifications when you start putting 
  clan rankings together with lineage rankings. The butlers at the feasts 
  in Avanthar go crazy trying to seat people of different lineages within 
  the same clan, or the same lineages but in different clans! Visible 
  prestige is so important and so hard to measure! Everybody takes it 
  very hard when they think the host is shortchanging them on their 
  position on the daises or the number of mats they are given to sit 
  upon. Never get into an argument with some old clan matron intent upon 
  maintaining her status in society! There are special butlers within the 
  larger palaces whose job it is to know all this stuff and get it right 
  When you get it wrong, the screams of outrage rise even unto the Golden 
  Tower itself.
  
  barke002
  Oct 5 11:10 AM
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "barke002" <barke002@e...> wrote:
  > > Dear Mr. Zírunel ("and all the ships at sea," as Walter Winchell 
  > used 
  > > to say in his radio broadcasts).
  > 
  > well, the "...all...at sea..." part is certainly spot on!
  > 
  > thanks for your kinship info, if you do have the cross-cousin term 
  > handy I would be interested...
  > 
  > Regards from me, my wife Sruganta, and little Sescha too
  The terms you want are /hénnukoi/ (male) and /hénnurakh/ (female). 
  These are used sometimes for "half-brother" and "half-sister," and the 
  compounding element /hénnu-/ combines with various oter stems to give 
  "half-" for other relations who are kin to you only through a co-wife 
  or co-husband.
  barke002
  Oct 5 12:52 PM
  --- In tsolyani@yahoogroups.com, "zirunel2003" <zirunel2003@y...> 
  wrote:
  > Never get into an argument with some old clan matron intent upon 
  > > maintaining her status in society! There are special butlers within 
  > the 
  > > larger palaces whose job it is to know all this stuff and get it 
  > right 
  > > When you get it wrong, the screams of outrage rise even unto the 
  > Golden 
  > > Tower itself.
  > 
  > 
  > Now there is an image to conjure with! 
  > 
  > I imagine the reality is complex enough that sometimes there really 
  > is no absolute correct solution. At which times the butlers' job may 
  > be to determine not a perfectly "correct" arrangement, but rather a 
  > persuasive-sounding and diplomatic one that will at least allow 
  > dinner to be served.
  > 
  
  > Perhaps the "correctness" of his seating arrangements is made more 
  > compelling by the use of opaque terminology and and convoluted logic 
  > that no one can follow, along with obscure references to classical 
  > texts which none of the guests have read and which may not even exist.
  > 
  > Fred
  > gakh higa
  You have it right. Ask Prince Rereshqala about clan squabbles! He has 
  hired one of the best clan-experts in the Empire just to decide which 
  clan sits on more mats at dinner! His chief wfe, Lady Sogái hiKsanuné, 
  is learning, but it is practically a life work to attain expert status.
  barke002
  Oct 7 12:17 PM
  NEGATIVES:
  Five adverbs are used for "not," "no," an"never":
  /yá/ and /yála/ stand for "not" in past or present
  time. /yá/ is used in the west, while /yála/ is favoured east of the 
  Missúma River. E.g. /lúm yá mule./ "I do not go"; /másun yá (or
  yála) pagal másun./ "She, it, does not see it." /lúm yá (or yála)
  múle múni/ "I did not go." /múni/ marks the past tense. (Note the near 
  homophone /müni(koi)/ "palace.")
  /yá/-/yála/ are used in response to a yes-or-no question: e.g. "Do you 
  want to go?" Answer: /yá/ [or yála/] "no!" /thá/ also expresses "no!" 
  in reply to questions that demand a specifically future answer: "Will 
  you go?" /thá/ "no (future)!"
  /thá/ negates future time, imperatives, and conditionals: /lúm mál 
  úl guál thá múle./ "I will not go"; /thá múleli!/ "Do not go!"; /lúm 
  thá múle bapál/ "I may not go" (/bapál/ "may" indicates possibility; it 
  is a verbal "aspective" see below.)
  There are three words for "never": /yálün/ is used for "never" in 
  present or past time: e.g. /lúm yálün mule/ "I never go"; /lúm yálün 
  múle múni/ "I never went." /thálün expresses "never" in the future, 
  imperative, or conditional: e.g. /thálün múleli/ "Never go!" /yáthalün/ 
  signifies "never" in the past, present, or future. It is emphatic. /lúm 
  yáthalün múle/ "I never went (and never will go)." The priests of 
  Sárku, the Lord of Death, chant /lúmi chá lanmrála?/ "Do we (inclusive) 
  have to die?" and the senior liturgist replies /yáthalün/ "Never" or 
  "Not ever!"
  
  ADVERBS:
  Some adverbs of place and time require no affixes:
  /dáhlte/ "here"; /onótl/ "there"; /jagétl/
  "over there"
  /éru/ "now"; /orü/ "then"; (word stress fallson the umlaut /ü/ 
  but cannot be shown on the keyboard); /ngéru/ "sometimes." Repeated, 
  /ngerú ngerú/ denotes "once in awhile, now and again."
  /etlú/ "again, another time"
  Some of these occur with locative prefixes, like nouns: /mikdáhlte/ 
  "from here"; /kenonótl/ "up to there";/tu'orü/ "after then"; 
  /brudáhlte/ "in here."
  Two common adverbs are: /búri/ "very" (cf. /búru/ "many, much") and 
  náili/ "quite, rather, somewhat": e.g. /búri dháli-n/ "very lovely," 
  /náili sán/ "quite powerful."
  Another type of adverb consists of a stem + the adjective suffix
  /-in/-/-n/. These include various unique stems, some common time words, 
  and a number of stems made from the Locative Prefixes themselves. Some 
  of the time words are considered nouns, and when a Locative Prefix 
  occurs, the /-in/-/-n/ drops (like those nouns that occur with the 
  noble/ignoble suffixes!). Adverbs made from a Locative Prefix do not 
  drop /-in/-/-n/ when another Locative Prefix occurs, however. This is 
  not as complicated as it looks.
  /tatlán/ "also/" /tátla/ is not attested elsewhere.
  /tsín/ "back" (as in "give back"). The /-n/ never drops.
  /pazhán/ "forever." The /-n/ does not drop. /prazhúrikh/ 
  "eternity" is said to be historically related.
  /parshén/ "at first." This is related to /parshélin/ "first," an 
  ordinal numeral.
  /dhún/ "down, below." Cf. the Locative Prefix /dhu-/ "under, 
  beneath."
  /sómin/ "above, up." Cf. the Locative Prefix /som-/ "upon, on, 
  above."
  /págin/ "long, in accompaniment" Cf. the Locative Prefix /pag-/ 
  "with, accompanying"
  /tún/ "afterwards, later." Cf. the Locative Prefix /tu-/ "after"
  /chén/ "before, previously." Cf. the Locative Prefix /che-/ 
  "before, prior to."
  /brún/ "inside." Cf. the Locative Prefix /bru-/ "in, into."
  /tsíren/ "outside." Cf. the Locative Prefix /tsire-/ Cf. the 
  Locative Prefix /tsire-/ "out of"
  /qámi-n/ "today." /pap-/ is a Personal Attitude Prefix, and /qámi-
  kh/ is a noun.
  /zhúlin/ "tomorrow." /zhúl-/ is a Personal Attitude Prefix, and 
  
  /zhúlikh/ functions as a noun (as in "Tomorrow will be a happy day." 
  Several other sets work identically: e.g. /pálin/ "yesterday, /tsomún/ 
  "at dawn," /hági-n/ "daily."
  Examples of adverbs occurring with the Locative Prefixes, like nouns: 
  e.g. /kenpazhán/ "until forever," /mikdhún/ "from below. The /-n/ is 
  retained with a Locative Prefix used as an adverb. Others that function 
  similarly include: /mikbrún/ "from inside." /moltsíren/ "from 
  outside." Others are considered more "nounlike," and the /-in/-/-n/ 
  drops": /kenzhúl/ "until tomorrow"; /tupál/ "after tomorrow"; /bruhági/ 
  "during the day."
  The compounding stem /-mon/ signifies, "way, fashion, style." It is 
  derived from /mu'ónikh/ "way, means, method." E.g. /másmon/ "thus, in 
  this way"; /ómon/ "in that way, thus"; /jámon/ "in that (far-off) 
  way"; /ssúmon/ "which way, in which fashion" (Cf. /ssúmim/" "how?") 
  /hlónmon/ ""in any way, any fashion"; /prúmon/ "in one way, one 
  fashion"; /qúrumon/ "all ways, in all fashions, by all means."
  A less-common adverbial prefix is /ne-/: e.g. /nelá/ "well." (Cf. 
  /lákh/ "goodness"; /lán/ "good, workable, efficient"); /nebússa/ 
  "badly, evilly." Cf. /bússan/ "bad, unworkable, out of order";
  /bússakh/ "badness, evil." /nemorél/ "immediately, at once."Cf. 
  /morélikh/ "immediacy," /morélin/ "immediate"; /nesáni/
  "truthfully." Cf. /sáni-kh/ "truth" and /sáni-n/ "true"; /neogrú/ 
  (also colloquially /nogrú/) "falsely." Cf. /ogrúkh/ "falseness, 
  falsity" and /ogrún/ "false." /neshorún/ "generally, ordinarily." Cf. 
  /shorúnikh/ "commonness, ordinariness"; /shorúnin/ "common, ordinary."
  Various adverbs defy easy analysis: e.g. /marashán/ "sadly, 
  sorrowfully." Cf. /marásh/ "to weep, cry," /maráshin/ "sad, sorrowful," 
  and /marashóngikh/ "tear." /yapralé/ "anyhow, anyway"; /rí/ "so" 
  (adjective modifier" e.g /rí dháli-n/ "so lovely")./kaún/ "too." Cf. 
  /kaúyal/ "too many"; /kámtla/ "still, yet."
  INTERROGATIVES:
  These are another noun-like class. Some occur with the Locative 
  Prefixes, while a few more "adverbial" items do not. Note that a rising 
  intonation (/?/: the "question intonation," does not occur
  when there is a question word in the sentence; the "question 
  intonation" occurs only in yes-or-no questions. The question mark is 
  thus not just "punctuation."
  /dépu/ "why? Is purely adverbial; no Locative Prefixes occur with it: 
  e.g. /túsmi dépu mule./ "Why do you go?" 
  /ssúmim/ denotes "how?" With the Adjective suffix /-in/, it signifies 
  "what kind of?" E.g. /tsám ssúmim móyi másun./ "How do you do it?" 
  
  /máisur ssúmimin básrimkoi guál./ "What sort of man is he?"
  /fénul/ "where?" /marakál/ "when?" and /ssumón/ "in which way, which 
  fashion?" are found as adverbs and also with Locative Prefixes:e.g. 
  /máisur fénul maháim./ "Where does he live?" /másun mikfénul pál./ 
  "From where does it come?" / túsmi marakál múle.
  /"When do you go?" /túsmi kenmarakál pazáng./ "Until when do you stay?" 
  /ssúmon lán guál./ "Which method is good?" /thamssúmon/ "By which 
  method?"
  Other Interrogatives are more noun-like: they occur as subjects and 
  objects of sentences, with the Locative Prefixes, and with the 
  Adjective suffix /-in/-/-n/. They cannot be pluralised, and they do
  not occur with the Personal Attitude prefixes or the General Attitude 
  suffixes. They include: /hárri/ "who?" /zhúr/ "what?" /changíl/ 
  "which?" and /déste/ "how much, how many?" Examples: /hárri guál./ "Who 
  is it?" /molhárri/ "to whom?" /túsmi tlahárri pagál./ "Whom do you 
  see?" /hárrimra/ (or less commonly /hihárri/ "Whose?" /hárri-n 
  basrimkoi/ "Which man?" (This usage is found mainly for noble nouns; 
  for inanimate and non-noble nouns, /changíl/ is used.) /zhúr dlára./ 
  "What comes out?" /másun bruzhúr guál./ "It is in what?" /zhúrin 
  chénukh/ "What thing?" /changíl pál./ "Which one comes?" (Inanimate or 
  ignoble.) /changílin brukardené/ "In which place?" (kardenékh/ "place") 
  /déste mule./ "How many go? (No /-yal/ is required.) /brudéste/ "In how 
  much, many?" /désten bruhásu./ "in how much money?" (I.e. "at what 
  price?") /désten mikbásrimyal/ "From how many men?"
  /déste/ is related to two non-Interrogative stems: /héste/ "this much, 
  many" and /méste/ "as much as, as many as." These are clearly connected 
  to the Demonstratives, since one can make /héstonùl/ "that many"; 
  /héstejàga/ "that many (more distant)." /méstonùl/ and /méstejàga/ "as 
  many as that" also are found. Examples: /héste guál./ "There are this 
  many." /mésten básrimyal pál, lúm panjáng qùrutlamssúri./ "As many men 
  come, I want all of them."
  Some Interrogative stems are reduplicated to give a distributive
  sense: e.g. /túsmi pagál múni mssúri, tlahàrrihárri./ "Whom (who-who = 
  various people) did you see?" /mssúri molfènulfénul múle múni./ "Which 
  various places (lit. to where-where?) did they go?" /mssúri 
  marakàlmarakál pál./ "When (which various times) do they come?"
  Further small classes 
   conjunctions, sentence particles, 
  
  interjections, etc. 
   will be discussed after the sections on the 
  
  verbs.
  You may ask, "How can I learn (and use!) the mass of information 
  presented above?" The easiest way is to construct sets of sentences 
   
  
  questions and answers or short dialogues 
   employing items you
  
  want to learn. Ignore the rest until later and don't attempt difficult 
  
  or idiomatic sentences (e.g. don't try to translate "She came on
  to him." The idiom doesn't work in Tsolyáni.). Practice these; write
  them out in Tsolyáni script 
   by hand or using one of the computer type
  
  fonts. Some examples are:
  "Where is he?" 
  "He is here."
  "He is there."
  "He is over there (far)."
  "He is in the house."
  "He is not here."
  "When will she come?"
  "She will come tomorrow."
  "She will come at dawn."
  "She will come now."
  "She will come daily."
  "She will not come."
  "What is this?"
  "It is my book." (Find vocabulary in these lessons or in
  the Grammar.)
  "It is my house."
  "It is my box."
  "It (= she) is my wife."
  "It is a stone."
  "Whose is that?"
  "It is his sword."
  "It is his pen."
  "It is his kilt."
  "It is hers" (= this + `s)
  "It is his dog.
  "Where is my hat?"
  "It is outside."
  "It is inside."
  "It is underneath."
  "It is above."
  "It is not here."
  "Why does he do it thus?'
  "He is a fool."
  "He is a merchant."
  "He is a priest. " [Take your choice of terms from the 
  Grammar!]
  "He is a soldier." [As above.]
  
  barke002
  Oct 8 10:32 AM
  Dear Mr. two of Two,
  I'm happy to look at your exercises. In case you want to keep them from 
  other students (if any!), you can send your solutions to my regular 
  email address, which I think you have.
  > 
  > nb I changed some of the nouns to ones I knew. As for the sentences I 
  > added its hard not to make them harder than they should be! the last 
  > one has an indirect object which may mean I'm not really ready to 
  > tackle it yet. Also, for the sentence "that is a very mighty ship" I 
  > tried two answers, one straight,the other constructed "that [ship] is 
  > a very mighty ship." Works in English with a nice sort of cadence but 
  > does it work in Tsolyani?
  > 
  > thanks,
  > 
  > Fred
  > gakh higa
  > 
  > "Where is he?" maisur fenul gual
  > 
  > "He is here." maisur dahlte gual
  > "He is there." maisur onotl gual
  > "He is over there (far)." maisur jagetl gual
  > "He is in the house." maisur bruveshu gual
  > "He is not here." maisur dahlte yala gual
  Good
  > 
  > "When will she come?" masun marakal pal
  > 
  > "She will come tomorrow." masun zhulin pal
  > "She will come at dawn." masun tsomun pal
  > "She will come now." masun eru pal
  > "She will come daily." masun hagin pal
  > "She will not come." masun yala pal
  > 
  "Will come"" is better translated as /mál úl guál pál/. Your set is 
  "general present": "When *does* she come." "General present" forms can 
  be used as a kind of "*immediate* future," and so you are not wrong: 
  "She comes tomorrow" = "She's on her way." The distinction is slight.
  > "What is this?" masun zhur gual
  > 
  > "It is my book." maisur lummra korunkoi gual
  > "It is my house." masun lummra veshukh gual
  
  > "It is my group." masun lummra juthatsanikh gual
  > "It (= she) is my wife." masun lummra hetlakh gual
  > "It is the truth." masun sanikh gual
  > 
  > 
  > "Whose is that?" masuno harrimra gual
  > 
  > "It is his fruit." masun maisurmra purdikh gual
  > "It is his collar." masun maisurmra tsukehlmrikh gual
  > "It is hers" (= this + `s)" masun masunmra gual
  > "It is his dog." masun maisurmra tlekku gual
  /tsukehlmri-kh/ is the piece of armour that a Tsolyanii soldier wears 
  to protect his throat. It also protects the shoulders and may have out-
  flaring epaulets. It is not a "collar" in the European sense.
  > 
  > 
  > "Where is my key?" lummra vayunlukh fenul gual
  > 
  > "It is outside." masun tsiren gual
  > "It is inside." masun brun gual
  > "It is underneath." masun dhun gual
  > "It is above." masun somin gual
  > "It is not here." masun dahlte yala gual
  > 
  > 
  > "Why does he do it thus?' maisur depu masmon moyi masun
  > 
  > "He is a governor" komaisur jaithulenkoi gual
  > "He is a servant" masun visumikh gual
  > "He is a priest. " maisur shartokoi gual
  > "He is a soldier." masun changadeshakh gual
  > 
  Better make it /changadeshakoi/ -- soldiers are usually noble in this 
  culture.
  > 
  > "Who (various) is in that palace?" harriharri brumasunomuni gual
  > 
  > "My lovely wives are in that palace." lummra hetladhalikh lel 
  > hetkudhaliyal brumasunomunikoi gual
  > "The Emperor and the noble governor are in that palace." kolumelkoi 
  > lel kojaithulenkoi brumuni gual
  > "Those soldiers are in that palace." mssuranchangadeshayal 
  > brumasunomuni gual
  > "My beloved wife and my beloved little children are in that palace." 
  > lummra tuplanhetla lel lummra tuplanbununiyal brumuni gual
  > 
  
  You have one wife and plural co-wives? Are they not all *your* wives? 
  Your sentence is correct, though semantically a little odd, if you mean 
  "your wife" and "her co-wives" (= i.e. women who are married to some 
  other husband than yourself). /hetkükh/ is what a woman calls her co-
  wives. You (the husband of all of them) cannot use this term for one 
  wife's co-wives. Confusing, eh?
  > 
  > "What kind of ship is that?" masuno ssumimin chlamekh gual
  > 
  > "That ship over there is a very mighty ship." masunochlamekh 
  > chlamesasakh gual (or masuno chlamekh sasan gual)
  > "That is the mighty lord's ship." masuno mringgusamrakoi chlamekh gual
  > "It is a very small ship." masun chlamekh ninin gual (or masun 
  > chlameninikh gual)
  > "It is not a ship!" masun yala chlamekh gual
  > 
  You can repeat "ship" if the context calls for it. You can also express 
  "very powerful/mighty" as /burí sán guál/, or /sasán guál/ or 
  /chlámesasàkh guál/.
  Or: /másun chlámekh yála guál/. The negative can also go next to the 
  verb.
  > "Are the twelve beloved maidens in the house?" semrugakh 
  > tuplanthialayal bruveshu gual
  >
  You have problems. /sémru/ is "twenty," and if you want "twenty-two," 
  the /gà-/ "two" comes first. If you want "twenty-two" as an adjective, 
  you then need the adjective suffix on the number, not the ignoble 
  suffix" /gàsémrun thiálayal/ "Twenty-two maidens." "Twelve" is 
  /gàtlén/. You can also make "twelve" into a prefix: 
  /gàtlètuplánthiálayal. (All the accents and secondary accents look 
  decidely odd to me and may not actually occur. One word usually has no 
  more than a main accent and possibly one or two secondary acccents.)
  > "When did the two former admirals come?." gakoi palchangkerduyal 
  > marakal pal
  /gàpàlchangkérduyal marakál pál múni./ If you want "two" as an 
  adjective, it will be /gán pàlchangkérduyal/. 
  > 
  > "My son comes daily from the holy city." lummra ngemukh miksavalshuma 
  > hagin pal
  You can also put /hági-n/ right after /ngémukh/, The syntax of time 
  words and adverbs can be more free than other elements.
  I don't see an indirect object anywhere in these sentences. ???
  
  Well done. Brave attempts!
  barke002
  Oct 12 4:57 PM
  The preceding instalment had become long and unmanageable. For this 
  reason, a few more small classes were postponed until this segment. 
  MORE ON NUMERALS:
  "One by one," "two by two," etc. are made by repeating the adjective 
  forms of the smaller numerals, including the /-in/-/-n/ of the suffix" 
  /mssúran prún prún pál múni./ "They came one by one." /mssúri bín bín 
  shüvün múni./ "They entered three by three." This is rarely used with 
  larger numbers.
  "Each one," "each (group of) two," etc. is expressed by making a 
  compound of the repeated numeral stem. Only the last of these takes the 
  adjective suffix: e.g. /prùprún bruvéshu/ "in each house, in each one 
  of the houses." /bìbín véshuyal mén prùnléshtokoi./ "Each three houses 
  has one guard."
  One half, one quarter, and three quarters are expressed with separate 
  stems. If the following noun is singular, the fraction signifies a 
  single part of the whole. If the noun is plural, the fraction denotes 
  part of the plurality. E.g. /eshán lútsikh/ "half of a (the) brick"; /
  eshán lútsyal/ "half of the bricks." /eshákh guál./ "There is one half 
  (of a single unit)." /esháyal guál./ "There are half (of a plural 
  number)." Other fractions that behave the same way are: /náru-/ "one 
  quarter" e.g. /nárun míliyal/ "one quarter of the stones"; /fáishun 
  míli-kh/ "three quarters of the stone." Further fractions are made by 
  prefixing /dlen-/ to the number: e.g. /dlentlón míliyal/ "one fifth of 
  the stones"; /dlentlén tsóluyal/ "one tenth of the people"; /dlensémrun 
  tópsükh/ "one twentieth of the load."
  THE COMPARATIVE AND SUPERLATIVE:
  An adjective stem + /-inggal/ or /-nggal/ denotes the comparative form 
  of the adjective. No word for "
  than" is needed, and the noun with 
  
  which the comparison is made occurs with /-koi/-/-ikh/. If the 
  comparative by itself is used as a noun, it takes the noble/ignoble/
  plural suffixes like a noun. E.g. /máisur dáli-nggal màsunbásrimkoi 
  guál./ "He is bigger (than) this man." /másunmra ngésakh ksibi-nggal 
  lúmmra ngémukh guál./ "Her daughter is taller (than) my son." 
  /máunggalikh lúmmra guál./ "The sweeter (one) is mine." (*/máung-nggal-
  
  ikh/ simplifies to /máunggalikh/.) /thu'ínggalkoi dáhlte maháim dopál/ 
  "The older (noble person) lives here." The adjective stem itself can be 
  reduplicated for further emphasis: e.g. /máisur nràifanráifanggalikh 
  guál./ He is the fatter (emphatic)."
  The superlative is made in the same fashion with the suffix /-inggalu/-
  /-/-nggalu/. E. g. /máisurmra véshukh dálinggalukh guál./ "His house is 
  the biggest."
  These formations all derive from Engsvanyáli /gan/ "than" and /gan 
  onúo/ "from all". They are now becoming obsolete. Colloquial Tsolyáni 
  expresses the comparative by "He is X from Y" and the superlative by 
  "He is X from all." /máisur ksibi-n mikmásun guál./ "He is tall from 
  her" = "He is taller than she." /lúm ksíbi-n mikqúru guál./ "I am tall 
  from all." These are now accepted as "high language." On the other 
  hand, /ksíbi-kh mikqúru dáhlte guál./ "The tallest (one) is here" is 
  still considered odd.
  barke002
  Oct 18 12:00 PM
  A few stems work like numerals but are not strictly
  "numbers." Theseinclude /qúru-/ "all," /hlón-/ "any," /zhá-/"some,"
  /tái-/ "few," /búru-/ "many, much," /káu-/ /"too many, too
  much," /lüm--/ "too few, too little," and /yálü/ "no
  . none." 
  
  Like other prefix classes, when these are used as independent 
  adjectives, they take a primary stress accent. When they occur as 
  prefixes, a secondary stress-accent is employed: /káun tsóluyal/ "too 
  many people"; /kàutsóluyal brutánkolun guál./
  "There are too many people in the fortress." The difference between a 
  prefix and an adjective seems to be one of emphasis only. 
  Further examples: /qùrubásrimyal/ "all men, all the men"; 
  /hlònbásrimkoi/ "any man"; /zhàsavályal/ "some cities"; /kàuhasúyal/ 
  "too much money"; /lümhasúyal/ "too little money"; /tàithiálayal/ "few, 
  a few maidens"; /yálüvéshukh/ "no house, not a house."
  In some cases, the singular or plural status of the noun makes an 
  important difference: compare /yálüvéshuyal/ "no houses" with 
  /yálüvéshukh/ "no house, not a house."
  These quantifiers can be separated and used as adjectives (+ the 
  "adjective suffix /-in/-/-n/) or as nouns (+ the noble/ignoble 
  suffixes): e.g. /qúrun savályal dálin guál./ "All cities, all the 
  cities, are large."; /káuyal/ "too much, too many" (as in /káuyal 
  dáhlte guál/ "Too many are here"); /hlónkoi brunáti guál./ "Anyone, 
  
  someone (noble), is in the room" (náti-kh/ "room, chamber"); /táin mál 
  úl guál pál./ "Few, a few, will come."
  The difference between "few" and "a few" is expressed by context: e.g. 
  /tàin bruvéshu guál" "A few are in the house" or "Few are in the 
  house."
  These elements belong to the same prefix class as the numerals:
  compare /prùbásrimkoi/ "one man" and /yálübásrimkoi/ "no man"; /
  tlónnátiyal/ "five rooms" and /zhànátiyal/ "some rooms."
  A "partitive genitive" sense is obtained by a quantifier followed by a 
  noun with the locative prefix /mik-/ "from": e.g. /hlónikh
  mikvéshuyal/ "any of the houses," /búruyal miktsóluyal/ "many of
  the people"; /tlén miktsóluyal/ "ten of the people" (versus
  /tlètsóluyal/ "ten people." In Classical Tsolyáni another prefix, 
  /mèth-/, was employed for the "partitive." This was separate from the 
  locative /mik-/"from." /mèth-/ is now rare but can still be heard in 
  the northeast around Fasíltum.
  barke002
  Nov 15, 2003
  > I thought right-to-left scripts were more difficult for us right-
  > handed folks - you cover up and smudge your writing...?
  Dear Scott,
  Not all Tekumelani scripts are written rght to left. Not only is Yan 
  Koryani written left to right, but so are Sunuz and Irzakh (although 
  the latter is sometimes right to left in certain locales and periods). 
  Bednalljan is written left to right and right to left-- at times in the 
  same document for artistic purposes. Bednalljan monumental script also 
  exhibits instances of "boustrephedon" writing: i.e. one line left to 
  right, the next right to left, the third line left to right again, etc. 
  Livyani is written down in columns, which are read from right to left. 
  Engsvanyali, (modern Western) Salarvyani, Mu'ugalavyani, and a few 
  others are written from right to left. It is hard to ascertain whether 
  the Tongue of the Lord of Worms (Sarku) and the hieroglyhic script of 
  the Priests of Ksarul are written from left to right or right to left -
  - these temples are very secretive and do not teach their arcane 
  tongues to outsiders. ...Etc. Some scripts are still undeciphered.
  
  barke002
  Jan 23, 2004
  > "Unrelated to the Khishan languages is the Nlü'arsh stock, which 
  > contains Pijenani and the tribal dialects of N'lüss. These are both 
  > descended from Ancient N'lüssa, the tongue of the Dragon Warriors. 
  > Bednalljan Salarvyani [...] borrowed heavily from Ancient N'lüssa but 
  > remained fundamentally distinct."
  > (_Tekumel Source Book_ 1.711, 1983)
  > 
  > 
  > "'Bednalljan Salarvyani' is a Khishan language, related to Tsolyani, 
  > Mu¹ugalavyani, and others of the family. [...] One important fact is 
  > its close relationship to Irzakh, the tongue of the Dragon Warriors 
  > of N¹lüss."
  > (_Bednalljan: The Script of the First Imperium_, 2002)
  > 
  > 
  > Should we take the more recent statement to mean a relationship in 
  > the sense of borrowing only, rather than in the stricter historical 
  > linguistic sense of *genetic* relatedness (descent from a common 
  > "ancestral language")? Or, maybe more excitingly, has there been a 
  > revision of the proto-history itself, in the intervening twenty years?
  The ancient history of that part of Tekumel is a confused mess. I
  should be consistent in calling the language of the ancient N'luss
  "Ancient N'lussa" instead of by the name of its script, Irzakh. These
  are two names for the same thing. There is confusion about the
  closeness of the relationships of Bednalljan Salarvyani, Ancient
  N'lussa (= irzakh), and the other members of the putative Khishan
  family of this part of Tekumel. Linguistic research has re-aligned
  some theories and changed terminology somewhat in the years since the
  first quotation above was written. Go with the second quotation. There
  are a number of other theories, some avidly supported by the 
  Mu'ugalavyani academy in Ssa'atis, others favoured by the Tsolyani and
  the Imperial Library in Jakalla. Take your choice.
  Muhammad Barker
  Oct 12 10:20 PM
  Dear Mark,
  Alas, I do not have time to produce more Tsolyani script documents. I 
  had hoped that two or three of you might get together and write in 
  
  Tsolyani to one another. You could also do as Curtis Scott did: develop 
  sentences and dialogue of your own -- and share it with others 
  interested in Tsolyani.
  I have now done up a new version of my Tsolyani script fonts. This is 
  "Urmish23." It is for the MAC. (The 23 refers to the number of times I 
  have gone in and tweaked the font once again). I could try to dummy up 
  a PC font with Fontographer, but I'm not sure it would work. I did it 
  before, and people had a devil of a time trying to download it from the 
  e-group site. I'll send you a copy if you want to try it -- but don't 
  be too disappointed if it does not work.
  I am currently using a little programme to put all of the Tekumel 
  Grammar dictionary onto flashcards. I include the scrpt, but 
  unfortunately the programme does not print out the script -- only 
  European languages. The inventor of "iFlash" says he is going to 
  include a printable script button in a future edition. I can thus put 
  script into my own computer files but cannot send it to anybody! That 
  will have to come later. I now have all of the words from "p" through 
  "ch" on cards, including a lot more derivatives, a few new words, and 
  script for each item. This is a time consuming process! It is also 
  hideously memory-hungry. Each word (card) is written in Urmish23 script 
  on a card, then reversed with Photoshop, turned into a JPEG, and pasted 
  into the third "side" of a card. The project is coming -- slowly.
  I have used the iFlash programme to create a set of flashcards for the 
  20 Tsolyani Gods, including their symbols (another little font i 
  created). This is fun but not very taxing. I can get the English name 
  on one side of a card, the god's attributes, on side 2, and the god's 
  symbol on side 3 (you can have multiple "sides" for each card.
  You can't use my sets of flashcards at all, however, unless you buy a 
  copy of the flashcard programme. It is available at loopware.com for 
  Mac only for just $10, Go to the site and see what is there.
  There is no point to me sending out my dictionary files -- you can't 
  even see them unless you buy the programme. Then you can't get the 
  scirpt to print! Maybe you could correspond with David MacGavern (who 
  is the inventor of "iFlash" and persuade him to include a "script 
  button" -- and also to adapt the programme for PCs.
  I can't get in to the Tsolyani e-group site. My Yahoo just throws my 
  attempts out and says "invalid ID or password." I do get two or even 
  three copies of every letter sent to the Tekumel e-group! Why, I don't 
  know... I just exercise my delete key finger.
  I'm also working -- very lackadaisically -- on another novel. These are 
  just "labours of love" -- tthey certainly don't sell to more than the 
  couple of hundred good folk who write to the various Tekumel lists. A 
  
  very few have indeed sold to others.
  Now you know what I am doing. I hope the new Guardians of Order rules 
  will be of interest to folk out there, as well as the new edition of 
  "Mitlanyal," on which Bob Alberti and I collaborated. The latter is 
  almost ready to go to press, Perhaps by the time you read this, it will 
  have gone.
  Best regards,
  M. A. R. (Phil to friends) Barker
  Muhammad Barker
  Sep 30, 2004
  Hello again! You have not written for a longish time. Glad to see 
  you're back.
  THe prefix for "of" in standard Tsolyáni is /hi-/. The Vrayáni use 
  /vu-/ which fits in with their colloquial shift of /hi/ to /vu/. Not 
  all words display this, depending on the social class of the speakers 
  and their proximity to urban centres. The only shift that has become 
  really universal on Vra is /hi-/ > /vu-/. Words such as /hiúkh/ 
  "littleness (in quantity) are found as /vukh/ in lower class Vrayáni, 
  but educated people say /hiukh/. /hipékh/ "javelin" is often /vubékh/ 
  among the lower-class javelin troops, etc.
  /ba/ in /bakál/ and /bayeker/ is not a prefix but part of the stems 
  themselves. This is just coincidental.
  Phil
  Muhammad Barker
  Feb 24, 2009
  Dear Dzala,
  Another common method of noun formation is to make a compound: /dhu'onpaletl/.
  this is often used in names that have a 'unitary" feel about them.
  Often these are further modified. The current usage for your clan in Jakalla is /dhupaletl(koi)/.
  
  Phil Barker
  dz
  On Feb 24, 2009, at 3:02 AM, Sally Abravanel wrote:
  Hide message history
  Just a suggestion on Clan Names.
  While Tsolyani attributives adjectives may come either before or after 
  the noun the describe, they usually take the ending "-in, -an, -n" and only
  rarely 0 (zero, no ending).
  So while "gold = dhu'onikh" and "sapphire = patletlikkh" my clan 
  "Golden Sapphire" would be "Dhu'onin Paletlikh" or "Paletlikh 
  Dhu'onin," or, more probably "Dlanmu hiPaletl (no suffix after "hi") 
  Dhu'onin Clan (of the) Sapphire Golden,"
  Likweise "dhumalakh = kirtle," + "paletlin = adjectival form of 'sapphire'
  " would make the "title"/nickname of my old Legion, the 12th LI, 
  "Niqomikh hiDhumala Patletlin = Legion of the Sapphire Kirtle."
  Sorry if I seem to be "teaching you to suck eggs" here!
  Mitlandalidálisayal warán ssíya tlatúsmiketlan
  Dzítla hiKarhsáma
  hiDlánmü hiPalétl Dhu’ónin
  Chechangadéshara hiNiqómi hiDhumála Palétlin
  aka Sally Abravanel
  
SOURCE: textdata/thevault/Empire of the Petal Throne/Tékumel Supplemental/M.A.R. Barker Messages on the Tsolyáni Language.pdf