   The Correct Path?
  Hey everyone,This is my first post on the gamedev.net forums, and I can't say I've been an active lurker in the past. But regardless, I've been drawn here in search of advice mostly, and perhaps to further enjoy the information of the community.I'm a 20 year old student, studying games development. More specifically, I'm studying my first year as Bachelors Degree(3 years) in Games Development at the Department of Computer Science, which is a joint effort betwen Stockholms University and the Royal Institute of Technology. Two of our most high profile schools, although I wouldn't give them any credit for that. This is in Sweden. Sounds fun and good, aye? Well, recently I've begun to worry. The games industry requires a lot of competence for you to work with something. This education I'm studying is fairly wide, teaching us about pretty much every angle of the games industry. The education is also fairly new, which again brings up worry. My concern is that it won't give me the competence I require to work in the industry.But 3 years is a lot of time. To roughly explain what they give us(since most of you don't know Swedish, the course plans is rather useless), is a mix betwen technical courses(such as programing, databases, AI, Direct X, web design), and "design" courses(such as human-computer interaction in games, games construction, onlinegames and communities, etc), with a few 3d/animation spread in betwen. Also has to do a project task and examination task at the end.But the last couple of weeks has been bothering me. Ever since me and my friends started off with a pet game project in Blender, I've realised just how little I know. And been worried about just how much I will know, when my 3 years have passed. Since I've only been studying for more than half a year now, I still have time to change my mind about it, and switch, should it come to that. Although that would indeed be a year wasted. My parrents, and some of my friends advice me that it could be a good idea to use this as a base, and further specialise myself from there.  There are many posibilities for further studies after I've examed in 2½ years or during summers/parallel courses, as our school system is very generous and does not charge for tuition.Would this be a correct path to go? I see many people studying Computer Science, art programes, what not. They get very specialized skills, perhaps broad in some perspective, but still very lucrative ones. While I cover many topics during my education, I fear that they may not be focused enough. Although admitedly, this might give me a good base to specialise further from.If you've read this far of my ramblings, I thank you. And if you have any suggestion of what I should do, I thank you^2. I am twisted right now, though I would hope that I can get this education to work out. I have abandoned a collage education in the past(although only a few months in), and I would hope to think that I could skip that again. But I'll do what it takes, to get where I want.Thanks-MothDepartment of Computer Science: http://dsv.su.se/en/Content of the course(in Swedish): http://dsv.su.se/program/dsp180/innehall   
  Hi Moth, and welcome to GDNet!First of all, I'm currently working as a game programmer, and my answer will probably be affected by this, designers etc will probably be able to give you different answers.I've briefly looked through the course list you linked, and it seems to me like a very general game-oriented program. The problem as I see it is that if you want to be a programmer, there's just not enough of that in there, and likewise for art and design. It's always good to have a general overview of the business, but generally it will be hard to get a job without a skillset in a particular area. In short, I agree with your concerns, and your own proposed solution: Take additional courses in the area you wish to specialize. This not to say that broad knowledge is bad, it's highly useful almost no matter what you do (being able to effectively communicate with fellow programmers, artists and designers is an often underappreciated skill), but you still need specific skills to be of interest to prospective employers. If you show that you have that, and a passion for game making, that will likely be more meriting than the details of your program's curriculum.Good luck!   ;  I did a course similar to the one you have mentioned and while it was broad, it wasn't in depth enough to specialise. To bring my skills to the level needed, I did a 1yr Masters in the area I wanted to specialise in. The good news is that you have caught on this early so you still have time to build up the skills needed in your own time to the level needed by the end of the 3 years.   ;  G.M. from Sweden wrote:>I'm a 20 year old student, studying games development. More specifically, I'm studying my first year as Bachelors Degree(3 years) in Games Development... Sounds fun and good, aye? Well, recently I've begun to worry. The games industry requires a lot of competence for you to work with something. Yes, which means that a 3-year program probably is insufficient.>This education I'm studying is fairly wide, teaching us about pretty much every angle of the games industry. The education is also fairly new, which again brings up worry. My concern is that it won't give me the competence I require to work in the industry.It won't. No education does, at least, not by itself. >But 3 years is a lot of time. No. It's only 75% of the recommended amount of time your post-high school education should transpire.>But the last couple of weeks has been bothering me. Ever since me and my friends started off with a pet game project in Blender, I've realised just how little I know. Good for you. You see that this 3-year degree is insufficient.>And been worried about just how much I will know, when my 3 years have passed. Since I've only been studying for more than half a year now, I still have time to change my mind about it, and switch, should it come to that. Why would you do that???  IMO, you should complete the program.  You're bound to learn a lot that is useful. Don't you think so?>Although that would indeed be a year wasted. Absolutely NOT. >[people] advice me that it could be a good idea to use this as a base, and further specialise myself from there. ... Would this be a correct path to go? I'm glad you change it to "a correct path" from your subject line's "the correct path." Yes, this would be a good way to proceed.>While I cover many topics during my education, I fear that they may not be focused enough. Stop with the "fear!" Fear is a life-killer. I have collected many wise sayings about fear in FAQ 47 on my site: http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson47.htmYour problem is that you're trying to make important life-changing decisions based on guesswork, and fear of the unknown. >Although admitedly, this might give me a good base to specialise further from.Yes.My advice is to stay with the 3-year program. In your spare time, work on building a portfolio. After graduation, continue studies, for at least 1 year, and continue portfolio-building throughout.[Edit]BTW, there are 2 threads on the topic of schooling in the For Beginners forum (in the Technical Side hierarchy). Recommended reading for you, Moth-san. Need help with choosing a schoolCollege, Game Development[/edit];  @Taharez, yep heh, that's pretty much what I was thinking. I guess the writing of the thread itself was a bit of self reflecting. My largest interests are design and programing, with probably programing and other various techstuff as a higher priority for further tuition. @yaustar, good to know others been in the same situation! Did it work out for you in the end, with your masters?@Tom Sloper, yes indeed, it is my fear geting in my way. A fear of an uncertain future. But then again, you are correct, everything that I will learn will most likely be usefull. And usefull things to know is never wrong, I suppose. I'll probably stick to this, and continue my studies and work meanwhile/afterThanks for your thoughts and advice.   ;  Look at my CV in portfolio. 'nuff said.I had an article published a little while ago about how I broke into the industry which you may find useful. Link.   ;  That is an interesting article yaustar, a bit inspiring, and frightening as well. You said at the end that you'd had rather went with a traditional computer degree, and how you struggled during masters. Our educations seem fairly similiar, and I do not want to end up in the same bog.The way I see it, there are benifits in going a traditional computer science road, and there are benifits in going down this road too, as long as I keep in mind that I'll need to expand my knowledge. Both roads are probably neither wrong or right, but that dosn't really stop me from being suspicious.   ;  From what I've seen from your post, you should be able to learn by yourself the rest of what is needed to make a demo to get a job in the game industry. You needs those general knowledge course to know what specialization is best for your aptitudes. This is not wasted time, that's obvious to me. Back when I was about to start college, there was none of that anywhere in the world, you should consider yourself lucky.I suggest you do some work in parallel to your class, stuff like mini games, graphic demo, physics simulation, there is allot of information on the web to give you great ideas that will let you learn tons of extra stuff.;Quote:Original post by Giant MothThat is an interesting article yaustar, a bit inspiring, and frightening as well. You said at the end that you'd had rather went with a traditional computer degree, and how you struggled during masters. Our educations seem fairly similiar, and I do not want to end up in the same bog. ... Both roads are probably neither wrong or right, but that dosn't really stop me from being suspicious.No two persons' lives can ever mirror one another. Your life is bound to be different from his. Do NOT be guided by your fears. But DO understand that there will be difficulties. Go ahead, try to avoid the difficulties that he faced - you will nevertheless encounter difficulties of your own. But that would happen regardless of what you do. So do what you want. You must follow your own yellow brick road (not anyone else's).   ;Quote:Original post by Tom SloperStop with the "fear!" Fear is a life-killer. I have collected many wise sayings about fear in FAQ 47 on my site: http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson47.htm"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."--- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against FearI generally advice against courses that try to teach all 3 core game development topics in one (Tech, Art, Design). While it's useful for a game programmer to know the basics of Max (so he at least can model up some gray-box environments), if you split your attention too widely, you'll end up loosing out to purebreeds from either side. They're also orthogonal skillsets, and the ability to be both a good artist, and a good programmer, is damn rare.Tom's right, though; your best bet is to just keep working on this course, and use it as a springboard for the future. You can for example go on to add a MSc in computer science to it if you worry your programming background is too light. As with all things, your ability to self-learn and self-start really is far more important than what the school teaches. Enjoy the time, and the opportunity to work with like-minded students.. and work like hell to make some kick-ass games for your portfolio.Allan   