   Workstation graphics cards
  Okay, I''ve been keeping up to date on consumer level graphics cards, but I''m wanting to put together a system for working with Maya and/or 3D Studio Max.What exactly does working with a workstation graphics card offer over working with a consumer graphics card? I realize that there must be a reason for the increase in price, but I haven''t the foggiest as to what''s better about them.Also, anybody have recommendations as to which cards are the best bargain buys right now? It''ll actually probably be a few months before I''ll have the funds to put this puppy together, but I''d like to know what I''m looking for. I can''t see myself honestly putting more than $300 into a graphics card.   ---------------------------------------------------laziness is the foundation of efficiencyFight Anomie | llamas! | MegaTokyo | Science or Die | googleTiffany_Smith fangirl
  no more than 300? Then why are you looking at workstation cards? They generally run in the 700-1000 range. If you don''t want to spend more than 300, then buy a Radeon 9800XT or something (well, that''s actually closer to 400).    capn_midnight | Captain Midnight | deviantArtACM | SIGGRAPH | Generation5;  Does it really matter? AFAIK, 3D Max and Maya don't use the video card for rendering, only for preview stuff. And most of the low/medium level cards are more than adequate for that.   [edited by - Raduprv on May 27, 2004 12:52:28 AM];  What Raduprv said. A fast CPU will help with those programs a lot more than a fast video card. ;quote:Original post by Raduprv   Does it really matter? That's what I'm asking. What exactly is it that workstation cards do/have that make them cost more? ---------------------------------------------------laziness is the foundation of efficiencyFight Anomie | llamas! | MegaTokyo | Science or Die | googleTiffany_Smith fangirl  [edited by - zer0wolf on May 28, 2004 2:37:21 AM];  Well, if you have scenes with 10 billion polys, then a faster video card is good so you can preview your scene faster, move it around and so (without having to view only the wireframe version).But for rendering what matters is the CPU, RAM quantity and RAM speed. ;quote:Original post by Raduprv    Does it really matter? AFAIK, 3D Max and Maya don't use the video card for rendering, only for preview stuff. And most of the low/medium level cards are more than adequate for that.   [edited by - Raduprv on May 27, 2004 12:52:28 AM]How is a 3D workstation board different from a game board? A12: When you compare ATI's workstation products to a high-end 3D game card the requirements and differences are substantial. For example, workstation boards are used to create the models/environments you see in your games while gaming boards are designed to play the game. While game requirements are focused on high frame rates in full screen, or in a window, the workstation product needs to address the problems of working with very advanced & complex applications that simultaneously run in wire-frame and shaded modes with numerous viewports and menus being opened or closed. Workstation products are also designed to handle much larger files that can be up to millions of polygons compared to the average game that is approx 50 thousand polygons. Listed below are the some of the major differences: Optimization for superior OpenGL® performance ISV optimization for greater application stability, reliability and enhanced performance Double Buffer Overlay Support OpenGL® extensions Designed to manipulate files in the millions of polygons Dedicated team of workstation support & development engineers  according to this YES it does matter:Using video cards without Hardware Overlay planes (or Hardware Overlay planes turned off) can result in poor performance for certain operations within Maya including (but not restricted to) use of tools based on Artisan or Paint Textures technology. There will also be visual differences compared with Hardware overlays that may result in difficulty seeing or manipulating aspects of the scene or Maya interface. Examples of Graphics cards without Hardware overlays include (but are not restricted to): NVIDIA based TNT/TNT2/GeForce/GeForce2 video cards There are many cards based on GeForce256, GeForce2,  GeForce3 and GeForce4 chipsets. nVidia and Alias do not recommend these cards for use with Maya  as you may experience various refresh, display and stability problems and inadequate performance.We suggest you choose from nVidia's workstation cards instead, such as the Quadro families which are much better suited to high-end 3D packages such as Maya.ATI Rage128/ Rage128Pro Matrox G400 etc. Examples of Graphics Cards where Hardware Overlays can be turned on/off include (but are not restricted to): 3DLabs  GVX210/GVX1/VX1/GMX2000 etc. Although Maya may be used successfully on systems containing these Graphics Cards, only those specifically  listed here have been tested. Please review the notes below carefully as some of these cards have limitations which may make them unsuitable for your purposes.so what does this all really mean?Non-Supported CardsAttempting to use Hardware Render on cards or drivers that are not listed above can cause unpredictable effects. Maya attempt to intercept problems and display messages, but sometimes you may still get one of: Machine hangs Renderer crashes Maya crashes Images rendering black No specular highlights No per-pixel lighting No shadows If the hardware renderer crashes, or any kind of noise appears on screen, or an unexpected black image is rendered, it is best to reboot your machine before continuing.  It is possible to get hangs when driver memory gets fragmented too much. It is possible to do this by binding a large number fairly large textures (e.g. 1024x1024 or larger).  Multi-point, multi-streak and point particles, and hardware shadows do not render  Line smoothing does not work in the hardware renderer  Shadows are not rendered in the hardware rendererLights with shadows enabled do not render you should also check out some this review at tom's hardware if u serious:Ten years ago, a high-performance graphic workstation would have set you back 30 times as much as a conventional PC. Then, a high-end workstation could easily cost as much as a luxury-class car. Customers still paid five times the price fewer than five years ago. Today, however, vendors struggle to justify the price of a high-end graphics workstation that is twice the price of a conventional PC. A 50% premium, along with a reliable service contract, is about as much as many are willing to pay. http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040323/index.htmlAnyways with the amount of money u talking about you should be able to get either a quadro fx 500 card or an ati firegl card don't know much about 3dlabs cards tho.personally i bought an ati firegl 8700 workstation card a while back and the main things I noticed was that it was really slow compared to my radeon 9500 not to mention geoforce 3/geoforce cards. Don't even think about playing the latest games with it unless it's one of the high end cards like the quadro fx 3000 but then again that card cost like $3000!Also I was able to use maya in linux since ati has had linux drivers for their workstation cards like forever and it has special options under the ati control panel to optimize your card for maya,3dmax or whatever application you are using. So yeah if your gonna get serious about using maya u definitely need a certified 3dcard cuz even though it works fine with my geoforce fx 5950 card and is fast it still don't support hardware overlays and you're not seeing the same thing in maya that others that have certified 3d workstation cards are seeing!  If God played dice, He'd win.—Ian Stewart, Does God Play Dice? The Mathematics of Chaos   [edited by - daveangel on May 28, 2004 11:45:01 AM] [edited by - daveangel on May 28, 2004 11:54:13 AM];quote:Original post by daveangel  Anyways with the amount of money u talking about you should be able to get either a quadro fx 500 card or an ati firegl card don''t know much about 3dlabs cards tho.personally i bought an ati firegl 8700 workstation card a while back and the main things I noticed was that it was really slow compared to my radeon 9500 not to mention geoforce 3/geoforce cards. Workstation graphics cards are better at rendering complex scenes accurately, whereas gamer cards are good at rendering comparitively simple scenes quickly.To get an idea of the difference it makes, look at this review. Here''s an entertaining quote:quote:In the case of the Unigraphics (UGS-01) benchmark the Radeon 8500 didn''t actually fail, however it took in excess of 7 hours to render one of the scene''s -- I stopped it after that point figuring it probably wouldn''t have a very high FPS anyway!;here''s some more pretty pics;  Thanks daveangel and Sandman! You''ve given me food for thought  ---------------------------------------------------laziness is the foundation of efficiencyFight Anomie | llamas! | MegaTokyo | Science or Die | googleTiffany_Smith fangirl