   Programming Language Confusion, what is right for me?
  Hey, I am a 3d Artist, I use 3ds Max I want to now make games with my skills, what software do I need to program in c++?I have been looking all over the net and trying to compare them but, I AM LOST!I am looking for something that will allow me to produce commercial quality work. I need something that will allow me to Model, texture and Animate in 3ds Max 2009 and Code in C++...... I need to be able to import all of my assets from Max to the Software for programming. also I thought I might note that I am int he market for a Game Engine, I signed up to evaluate Gamebryo, looks REALLY good! Money is not an object to me I have THAT much dedication to my skills and craft. I'm just new to this whole programming thing. do I need a programming Language to run beside Gamebryo? and also, I am using Vista. I had interest in DARKBasic until it was revealed that it will not run on Vista. any help would be much appreciated. Any additional info you can provide would also be greatly appreciated.this is my company's Pipeline:AutoDesk 3ds Max 2009 (SP1)-Creativity ExtensionAdobe PhotoShop CS4Adobe IllustratorAdobe After EffectsAdobe Premier ProAdobe Audition v3Pixologic ZBrush 3.1E-on Software's Vue 7.2 xStreamCrazyBump   
  What exactly do you want to achieve, and are you doing this alone?If you actually want to write all the code yourself, and haven't done it before, then you have a long time of learning ahead of you. Do you want to program a game all by yourself?Or just something to view your 3D models?For C++ download Visual C++ 2008 Express, it's free and very good.You can't just import 3D models into a software like that, you need to code an importer or loader for your game, unless you use a complete game engine or similar format helpers.It sounds as though you might want to try C# with XNA, which can be done in Visual C# 2008 Express. It has several examples of importing models easily from the GUI and drawing them in your program.This is also downloadable, check http://creators.xna.com/.   ;  Hey Erik, Thanks for you reply!I guess I did forget those smaller details that make the picture so much clearer.We are an 2D/3D Animation and graphic design company, we want to add Video Game Development to our operations and produce our very own commercial quality games.  We have a 5 man team each one with their own specialty but all know the same progs. We are currently expanding our team until we get about twenty or so people on our team and Company. We were hoping to get into C++ because we have been doing research on The Gamebryo Engine and plan to license it. We were all going to Evaluate it and once it hits expiration another member will evaluate it and we will continue learning it that way. we have a perfect set up already for doing so.we want to make an Open World game as well as an Action/Adventure title, an RPG, and a social game. We are VERY fast learners. Time doesn't matter. I downloaded Visual C++ Express Edition a few hours ago, after I had posted this thread actually, just to see if it was what we needed then I seen your post and thought that yes we are on the right track.I know we need to build our own importers and loaders, we had a programmer who used XNA and C# but it didnt really fit our needs or fulfill what we were looking to accomplish. We have been hearing about how C++ is for making triple A  titles and more capable of doing what we need. I just want to make sure we have the correct tools and software and that we are headed in the correct direction.checklist:Visual C++ Express EditionDark GDK for Visual C++ Express EditionGamebryo Game EngineArt Programs and Animation softwareVideo Editing and Finishing Software.Are we complete? what is missing and what will speed up the process?we are targeting the PC and PC Online Markets. Thinking about a possible XBOX360 Product but am not in a rush for that one.Thanks in advance! ;  Not to sound mean but it sounds like you are missing the programmers. I'm sure C# could handle everything you need however as far as I know there are no commercial game engines for it. Most commercial games are coded in C/C++ for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason being their target platforms (consoles) only support C/C++ and/or their libraries are written in it.If you don't know C++ and you plan to make a commercial game right off the bat then your begging for headaches. Your best plan of action as I see it is to hire a programmer that has done commercial game development. If you don't want to hire anyone then your looking at least a few years to learn C++ well enough to get started with game programming.Also I believe you forgot about sound, what will you be using to make sound effects and music?   ;Quote:Original post by SeoushiNot to sound mean but it sounds like you are missing the programmers. I'm sure C# could handle everything you need however as far as I know there are no commercial game engines for it. Most commercial games are coded in C/C++ for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason being their target platforms (consoles) only support C/C++ and/or their libraries are written in it.If you don't know C++ and you plan to make a commercial game right off the bat then your begging for headaches. Your best plan of action as I see it is to hire a programmer that has done commercial game development. If you don't want to hire anyone then your looking at least a few years to learn C++ well enough to get started with game programming.Also I believe you forgot about sound, what will you be using to make sound effects and music?hey thanks for your replyI actually hadn't forgot about programmers, I mentioned above that I had one who used c# and XNA Game Studio, it just wasnt what we were looking for. and about finding/hiring programmers, I have tried this route atleast 15 times and not trying to stereotype or generalize here, but they were all LAZY, some made an attempt to get some work done and the rest just didnt even get their act together well enough to make one line of Code. We have recently been looking for Programmers with out any luck so whatsoever and decided that we are wasting valuable time going that route.We are working on a HUGE saga, it will take place in Films, Animations, specialized web pages, an RPG Maker Game(Just for fun and will be given out for free), Graphic Novels and comics and eventually a Mini Series.The very first game we hope to release is an Open World Sandbox game where players can take on a Persona, build their characters and customize the entire world and social network with others while discovering the mysteries of the universe.  Graphics dont make the game, we want something that will be high quality tho and fun to play and enjoy for countless hours. We have learned Animation over the years and have perfected our craft to where we want YOU to control the characters now.And I also did mention Sound, we use Adobe Audition v3, we also use Cubase sx4, Fruity Loops, Reason, Pro Tools and we have hundreds of dollars worth of sound sets(Drums, Keys, guitars, synth, ambience, loops, Sound FX) and thousands worth of Hollywood Edge CDs. We have a full featured Studio that includes:Several Workstations with the latest Hardware for Breeze of use.Studio Condenser MICs, Acoustic filtering.HardDisk Recorders and trackers48 Track Mixing BoardsRack Units with EQ, Compressors, PreAmps, Reverb modules and MOREAll the workstations are optimized for FULL HD, SPEEDY HI QUALITY RENDERS.All workstations also have at minimum 2TB of HDD space. We are a VERY serious company.Oh, BTW, we all have roots in Motion Picture/Television, Animation, Web Design, Graphic Design, Music and writing. Never really got into Game Development until we started working on our project.   ;Quote:Original post by sundiataQuote:Original post by SeoushiNot to sound mean but it sounds like you are missing the programmers. I'm sure C# could handle everything you need however as far as I know there are no commercial game engines for it. Most commercial games are coded in C/C++ for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason being their target platforms (consoles) only support C/C++ and/or their libraries are written in it.If you don't know C++ and you plan to make a commercial game right off the bat then your begging for headaches. Your best plan of action as I see it is to hire a programmer that has done commercial game development. If you don't want to hire anyone then your looking at least a few years to learn C++ well enough to get started with game programming.Also I believe you forgot about sound, what will you be using to make sound effects and music?hey thanks for your replyI actually hadn't forgot about programmers, I mentioned above that I had one who used c# and XNA Game Studio, it just wasnt what we were looking for. and about finding/hiring programmers, I have tried this route atleast 15 times and not trying to stereotype or generalize here, but they were all LAZY, some made an attempt to get some work done and the rest just didnt even get their act together well enough to make one line of Code. We have recently been looking for Programmers with out any luck so whatsoever and decided that we are wasting valuable time going that route.We are working on a HUGE saga, it will take place in Films, Animations, specialized web pages, an RPG Maker Game(Just for fun and will be given out for free), Graphic Novels and comics and eventually a Mini Series.The very first game we hope to release is an Open World Sandbox game where players can take on a Persona, build their characters and customize the entire world and social network with others while discovering the mysteries of the universe.  Graphics dont make the game, we want something that will be high quality tho and fun to play and enjoy for countless hours. We have learned Animation over the years and have perfected our craft to where we want YOU to control the characters now.And I also did mention Sound, we use Adobe Audition v3, we also use Cubase sx4, Fruity Loops, Reason, Pro Tools and we have hundreds of dollars worth of sound sets(Drums, Keys, guitars, synth, ambience, loops, Sound FX) and thousands worth of Hollywood Edge CDs. We have a full featured Studio that includes:Several Workstations with the latest Hardware for Breeze of use.Studio Condenser MICs, Acoustic filtering.HardDisk Recorders and trackers48 Track Mixing BoardsRack Units with EQ, Compressors, PreAmps, Reverb modules and MOREAll the workstations are optimized for FULL HD, SPEEDY HI QUALITY RENDERS.All workstations also have at minimum 2TB of HDD space. We are a VERY serious company.Oh, BTW, we all have roots in Motion Picture/Television, Animation, Web Design, Graphic Design, Music and writing. Never really got into Game Development until we started working on our project.Well, it depends, you guys could stick to XNA, probably would be the quickest/easiest route. But It really all depends on weather your planning to buy a game engine, make your own, or what. If you make your own it will take ages (so thats not recommended, especially if you don't have much experienced programmers). Really it all comes down to how much programmers you have and how experienced they are. If they have only dabbled in stuff then your looking at a long hard trek to get anything serious done.  I'm also a 3D Artist and before while learning 3D I also tried to learn some programming, I was set on wanting to make my own 3D Game Engine. Years later (now) i finally am able to program some decent things and slowly work on my engine. Its a long hard path to the road of a 3D game. If you guys are wanting to do 2D, well thats a tad easier but still.Good Luck.   ;  How good a programmer are you? I am concerned the amount of time for you to 'get up to speed' to the level needed to create this game with Gamebryo.   ;Quote:Original post by sundiataHey, I am a 3d Artist, I use 3ds Max I want to now make games with my skills, what software do I need to program in c++?I have been looking all over the net and trying to compare them but, I AM LOST!You are supposed to be lost. Programming is a fundamentally different task from art creation. Almost none of your "skills" are going to be transferrable.Quote:I am looking for something that will allow me to produce commercial quality work. I need something that will allow me to Model, texture and Animate in 3ds Max 2009Then use 3ds Max 2009 for that.Quote:and Code in C++......You can write code with a plain text editor, if you really want.Making a game work with 3D art isn't about using a tool to write code. It's about using existing code.And why are you so sure you want to use C++ for this? Is it something to do with "performance" or "industry standard"? If I told you I wanted to make pixel art for your 3D game with 16 colour palettes because I heard it makes smaller image files, you'd laugh at me, right?Do you know any programmers in real life? You might try talking to them first.   ;Quote:Original post by ZahlmanQuote:Original post by sundiataHey, I am a 3d Artist, I use 3ds Max I want to now make games with my skills, what software do I need to program in c++?I have been looking all over the net and trying to compare them but, I AM LOST!You are supposed to be lost. Programming is a fundamentally different task from art creation. Almost none of your "skills" are going to be transferrable.*Not true from what I have learned about skills being transferable. I create assets, that's what I do, we simply needed to know what Language and Engine would be best suited for our needs, I understand that you are trying to help out but it comes off as though you are being snide, I am not pointing fingers or assuming, i'm just letting you know that that is how it comes off.*Quote:I am looking for something that will allow me to produce commercial quality work. I need something that will allow me to Model, texture and Animate in 3ds Max 2009Then use 3ds Max 2009 for that.*I am, what I mean is, I need something that will allow me to do that all in max and then transfer it to the game engine, I already know I can use Max, that is the program I am certified in. I just need something compatible.*Quote:and Code in C++......You can write code with a plain text editor, if you really want.Making a game work with 3D art isn't about using a tool to write code. It's about using existing code.*I understand this part well, I am also a web deisgner and pretty damn good with HTML and XHTML, I just need to know what pieces I will be needing and what pieces work essentially well at what they are designed for, we have NO time to be sitting around for years creating everything we need when we can just buy stuff, I am a registered and certified user of AutoDesk Products, I have been seeing them up the ante on Game Development software and then I seen the proliferation of it all over the web and media, I simply want to know what I will need so when I finally do find and hire a programmer with some sense we will be prepared and will also know what skills we are looking for in him. I already know I will need no less than three of them for our project and it is not our only project we are working on at the moment.*And why are you so sure you want to use C++ for this? Is it something to do with "performance" or "industry standard"? If I told you I wanted to make pixel art for your 3D game with 16 colour palettes because I heard it makes smaller image files, you'd laugh at me, right?*no I wouldn't, that is up to you if you want to do that*Do you know any programmers in real life? You might try talking to them first.*Did you not read the part where I said we are a SERIOUS COMPANY, all my employees COME IN TO WORK, not sign in to it, We are based in Chicago. most of the programmers I have met and come accross don't do game development, the rest used C# and it did NOT produce what we were after, XNA is really cool, but still too young, we have solved the language problem and are using Visual C++, we purchased our engine earlier today after HOURS & DAYS of research   We settled on the LeadWerks Engine, it had the best support and features for what we need*We want to use C++ because it is based off of C and C has been around for ages and has EVERYTHING we will be needing, when I go to book stores I see an abundance of C++ books and almost all of them have SOMETHING to do with game development, it seemed to me it was almost designed and created for making games and all consoles use C/C++......Why do I want to use this? do I think it's "industry standard"? NO, they say Max is "industry Standard" then you turn around and see the same thing about Maya, MODO, etc... they say Photoshop is "industry Standard" yet there are companies who prefer Painter or Gimp and what have you. I even began to learn C/C++ years ago and thought it was pretty nice, Im just not a programmer. I am willing to learn bits and pieces to be able to easily communicate with other programmers, especially if they are going to work for me.and lastly, I plan to use these coding languages and engines for more than just games, why else would I be here? I want my company to be multi-faceted. we want to build applications, software and the gamut. we are growing and continue to grow EVERYDAY.   ;  Sounds like you haven't employed a good programmer yet. If I was in your shoes I would look at some of the professional game development companies and look at their requirements on the job postings. Use their requirements as a guide for what you need and if you can find/get a programming consultant to judge talent. You will most likely want to hire a lead programmer first and then they can be the new consultant and task out programmers as they come in. You will need a team of programmers, not just one.   