   Games that don't allow diagonal movement
  Hi, I have a nice idea for doing efficient pathfinding on grid maps that do not allow diagonal movement. I know 8 directions of movement is more common but I was wondering, are there any games that use 4 direction movement?I can only think of Konami's Metal Gear for the MSX.   
  pacman?(actually most NES games back then didn't really had diagonal movement i think? zelda, too?)   ;  Many gameboy, NES and early SNES games disallowed 8-dir movement.Personally, I find this annoying as hell. Generalizing to 8 or 12/16 directions is generally worth the extra effort (the latter being quite common in later SNES games).   ;Quote:Original post by davepermenpacman?Not much pathfinding in PacMan; the ghosts use hardcoded rules to move around :)Quote:(actually most NES games back then didn't really had diagonal movement i think? zelda, too?)Zelda's a nice example. Thanks! :)Quote:Original post by FiddlerMany gameboy, NES and early SNES games disallowed 8-dir movement.Personally, I find this annoying as hell. Generalizing to 8 or 12/16 directions is generally worth the extra effort (the latter being quite common in later SNES games).I agree it's nicer to have more directions to move in but I'm focused on games that don't do this. I want to motivate my work with some existing examples you see :)Can you name some games? I'm less interested in puzzle-y affairs like Solstice (which also uses non-diagonal grids) and more interested in games where the enemies actually pathfind.;Quote:Original post by pithlitI have a nice idea for doing efficient pathfinding on grid maps that do not allow diagonal movement.Yeah it's called A*.;Quote:Quote:Original post by FiddlerMany gameboy, NES and early SNES games disallowed 8-dir movement.Personally, I find this annoying as hell. Generalizing to 8 or 12/16 directions is generally worth the extra effort (the latter being quite common in later SNES games).I agree it's nicer to have more directions to move in but I'm focused on games that don't do this. I want to motivate my work with some existing examples you see :)Can you name some games? I'm less interested in puzzle-y affairs like Solstice (which also uses non-diagonal grids) and more interested in games where the enemies actually pathfind.For the SNES (4-dir): Final Fantasy (all of them), Mystic Quest Legend, Breath of Fire 1 & 2 (as well as 3 & 4 for the PSX), Der Langrisser, and most other non-action RPG-like games of the era.On the other hand, most action/action-RPG games had 8+ direction movement (e.g. Zelda LTTP, Secret of Mana/Evermore, Illusion of Time, Terranigma, Jurassic Park, Goof Troop, blah blah).My take on this is that 4-dir movement works best in turn-based strategy (where it's just another strategic element) and can sometimes work in turn-based RPGs (with battles that take place in a separate screen). For anything that requires real-time control, however, 4-dir movement is a serious liability.   ;Quote:Original post by SirisianQuote:Original post by pithlitI have a nice idea for doing efficient pathfinding on grid maps that do not allow diagonal movement.Yeah it's called A*.Are you trying to be funny or are you suggesting A* cannot be improved upon?   ;Quote:Original post by FiddlerFor the SNES (4-dir): Final Fantasy (all of them), Mystic Quest Legend, Breath of Fire 1 & 2 (as well as 3 & 4 for the PSX), Der Langrisser, and most other non-action RPG-like games of the era.Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not sure how much pathfinding would be involved in a non-action RPG but I'll certainly look into those.Quote:Original post by FiddlerMy take on this is that 4-dir movement works best in turn-based strategy (where it's just another strategic element) and can sometimes work in turn-based RPGs (with battles that take place in a separate screen). For anything that requires real-time control, however, 4-dir movement is a serious liability.I'd argue that's only partially true. If the gameplay mechanic is built around the idea of 4-directional movement I think it can work reasonably well. There's a nice little iPhone/SymbianOS ">game I came across last night actually that seems to do this .   ;  dungeon master;Quote:Original post by pithlitQuote:Original post by SirisianQuote:Original post by pithlitI have a nice idea for doing efficient pathfinding on grid maps that do not allow diagonal movement.Yeah it's called A*.Are you trying to be funny or are you suggesting A* cannot be improved upon?Define "improved upon". If you can improve A* you'll probably become famous and get lots of women. A* can be tweaked and refined or combined with derivatives of itself to improve efficiency, but "improving upon it" seems a bit audacious.   