   Serious games job vs regular ol' C# job
  Okay, to start; I have a degree in CS/Math and began college to eventually get into game design/development professionally.I've decided that I want to do more game design and scripting and disregard my current path of lower level programming.Out of school I worked for a year using C++ with Visual Studio and AS3 with FlashDevelop & Flash CS4.My second contract was for Summer 2009 building a small rendering engine and test apps in a proprietary language for cloud computing, so no practical real-world application there other than theoretical, really.I've now done my share of both back end, low level implementation and high level, class design and scripting.I now have two offices that both want me for my next position and I'm torn.I've got until Monday to decide.One is in serious games and uses AS3 & Torque, which I'd script in both, and is in an area that has a somewhat steep cost of living.The other is in an area with unbelievably low cost of living, but is working primarily in C#/SQL WinForms for an insurance company.The salaries are exactly the same.On one hand, I think I'd be able to get some experience in interactive media, but not an out-and-out shipped title.Would that be pertinent to getting a job at a real studio later?On the other hand I could rake in the dough at the boring button-down-type job and work on my own stuff in the meantime and get together some nice maps and levels.Anybody got an opinion?   
  What do you want out of life?The economy is bad, so having two job offers in hand is an excellent thing.It is time for you to do some soul searching.  You might consider getting a copy of "What Color Is Your Parachute" from the library.  It doesn't have to be a current edition.  In the appendix is something he calls a flower diagram.  It help you identify your dream job by going through where (geography) you want, in a field within your interests and fascinations, in an organization with your favorite people and environments, serving your values and goals, with your favorite working conditions, at a certain salary and level of responsibility, using your favorite skills.Once you've figured that out, the choice between the jobs should become trivial.   ;Quote:Original post by sanstereoI now have two offices that both want me for my next position and I'm torn.I've got until Monday to decide.Ouch.Quote:One is in serious games and uses AS3 & Torque, which I'd script in both, and is in an area that has a somewhat steep cost of living.High cost of living is never good.  How much will you be earning?Quote:The other is in an area with unbelievably low cost of living, but is working primarily in C#/SQL WinForms for an insurance company.Sounds like a horribly dull job, but the low living costs will likely give you the opportunity to enjoy your free time more because you have more disposable income.Quote:The salaries are exactly the same.For now, yes.  Consider the promotion prospects; on the whole, you will earn more IMO in a non-gaming track unless you're up there with Carmack and, even then, the games industry is dog-eat-dog and probably not as safe as you think it is.  For all the hot air and look at our new game, there's financial buggery going on and in the UK at least starting salaries in gaming are usually pathetic.  I know one guy who started off as a tools developer in the games industry and had a starting salary of £18k, while his classmate went to RBS to develop software and started out with £24k and a shitload of extra benefits.  YMMV and I know you say the salaries are the same, but what will earn you more in the long run?I don't buy the "Money doesn't matter, I love my job" thing people come out with.  What's the point in enjoying your job if you're broke and can barely feed yourself?Quote:On one hand, I think I'd be able to get some experience in interactive media, but not an out-and-out shipped title.Would that be pertinent to getting a job at a real studio later?Likely no, not with ActionScript or Torque - unless your future employer would be considering potential and not current skills.Quote:On the other hand I could rake in the dough at the boring button-down-type job and work on my own stuff in the meantime and get together some nice maps and levels.Quote:Anybody got an opinion?Yes.  Software development jobs seem to have a tendency to be total wank (my personal opinion and experience, please don't burn me too hard) but if you have to choose one I'd pick the more secure option which uses more conventional and in-demand skills which, unfortunately, is the most boring option out of the two.Feel free to rate me down and destroy me if you disagree, kids.   ;  Who is this serious game company? The game industry has little job security as is right now, let alone if you're working in a niche offshoot like "serious games"... especially with a notoriously difficult engine like Torque. Is this a startup? Do you want to work on "serious games"? If there opportunity for career advancement, and would you even want to advance in that company?You talk about cost of living but nothing else about living. Do you want to live in these areas? Socializing, recreation, safety, cultural issues... these are all more important than cost.Do you really think after spending 8 hours a day coding for an insurance company that you'll have the energy left to code even more by yourself? There's a huge difference between "wanting" to work on things on your own time and actually doing it. I know many people who constantly talk about making games and very few who have ever actually managed to do it.   ;  @Frob - "What do you want out of life?"To make a horror game as relevant and disturbing, yet as complex as Lars von Trier's Antichrist. ;)"The economy is bad, so having two job offers in hand is an excellent thing."Couldn't agree more, I feel very grateful."It is time for you to do some soul searching."Hehehehe. To say the least.Thanks for the advice, checking out the book now.@UKdeveloper - Okay, there's so much here to reply to I'll just make a blanket. :)Basically, the SW Engineering job is in a low COL area where they have state tax and there's nothing to do. One indie theater, one Indian buffet and really no other attractions.In the area with the higher cost of living they have no state tax so I'd be slightly better off from paycheck to paycheck.The only difference is about $200 in rent and I could plan for the rest, given I want to plan that hard.Other than that they seem to balance out from my approximations and weighing benefits, etc.I agree with your sentiment about the games industry as I tried out for a few positions before I took my last job and nearly shot milk out of my nose (I wasn't even drinking milk at the time) when they said the salary they had in mind.My thinking is, being bored all day will not inspire me to earn a raise, if anything I'll just coast along.In something I feel my expertise is in, ie design & scripting and high level class development, I may not be making a game, but it will be along those lines ie art & content pipeline, working with a 3D engine and in two scripting languages, visual and audio design and implementation.In the end, it'll be a good bit closer to what I really want to do over all.@LockePick - Good points all around.Torque isn't that big of a challenge as I've owned and used it since 2003.Yes, I've since moved on to UnrealEd 3, but I have a good bit of experience already, hence their offer.As far as not wanting to work at night, all I do is work. ;)It's all I've ever done.I work on development, design, games, music, I never take a break so this won't be anything new.If anything I'd be afraid that working on serious games all day would make me not want to work on my game and that C# might inspire me to do something else more fitting.I'm still leaning towards the serious games position, but at the end of the day I might just want to make "my games" and not work for a shit studio and, in that case, the C# position would be fitting as it nets more money--even if only a few hundred bucks more a month--and wouldn't "burn me out" on game development by doing it all day before I come home.I live in Austin and the garbage that comes out of this place for top studios is appalling. A f**king crime, to be honest.The chances that someone wants to make complex, Team Silent/Gaspar Noe inspired horror games is really kind of silly.I might have to just make enough cash to hire content creators and string the thing together episodically in my own time on a licensed engine.That whole idea is for another time though.Thanks guys.Keep the suggestions coming.   ;Quote:Original post by sanstereoI'm still leaning towards the serious games position, but at the end of the day I might just want to make "my games" and not work for a shit studio and, in that case, the C# position would be fitting as it nets more money--even if only a few hundred bucks more a month--and wouldn't "burn me out" on game development by doing it all day before I come home.I doubt the extra money will be all that significant when it comes to starting up a new studio - certainly it will be less valuable than the experience, and contacts you can gain from working in the industry.As for burnout, that is just as likely to happen with a non-games job as it is with a games job. For me, it was the other way around; I have much more motivation to work on my own projects at home since I got a games job than I ever had when I worked outside the industry. From reading your posts, it sounds like you aren't really interested in the insurance job. Doing a job you dislike in a place you dislike will be extremely demotivating, if not depressing, and if you're anything like me, that will burn you out far quicker than a potentially more stressful job that you enjoy.   ;Game business is never "safe" or "secure" in any way. Working in a game studio can be fun and exciting for sure but the danger of getting "out of money" is always around.My personal experience was somehow similar to yours and I had to go through similar decisions. I got the "normal" job, started to go home as early as possible and spent my evenings coding and learning what I liked and needed to get my "dream project" done.Learning, studying and chasing your dreams is MUCH easier when your bank account is safely in the green I am telling you. Then, after some years you could look around again, you'll have better skills in game programming and, perhaps you could end up in a good game studio with a good salary.. best of both worlds.As a side note I'd consider C#/Winforms experience more relevant to game programming than any scripting thingy.. You can transfer your C# skills to XNA and start coding your own game straight away at home (or at work while the boss is not around ;) ).After 10 years of "normal" jobs I now have my own small indie studio developing the kind of games I have always been interested in.. so, I think I can say it can be done.