   Racism in Europe...... whoa-
  Seriously, how bad is it? According to this article, it's pretty bad, but seems to be focused on football/soccer/World Cup. To my Europeans, or even better my European turned American residents/citizens, is the racism that rampant. Or is it that emotions are high and common sense has taken a vacation for the time being?   
  You have to consider the source -- soccer games are attended by the same kind of people that attend American football games. I'd hardly call the American football fans (on the whole; I watch football and soccer, okay?) the illuminatus of America.A lot of political parties in Europe, buoyed by the neocon resurgence in America, have also started some very tasteless anti-immigration campaigns (for example, the BNP in the UK). I believe that's part of the culture, given that the BNP's campaign in particular was accused of involving astroturf movements with neighbours and the like.There's also the crowd mentality -- I wouldn't shout at a baseball player and call him mean names if it were just me in the stands, but I end up doing it because my fellow crowd-types are doing it (and I want to show off how much smarter I am than them by shouting my witty remarks against a roar of fan-noise, where nobody will ever hear me). That was a bit too insightful. [crying]Overall, I think the world's common sense stepped out for a pack of cigarettes in 2000 and never came back.   ;  Cultural integration in Europe hasn't exactly been a stunning success. There is still an overall undercurrent of racism. I've heard it said that to be a European takes more than just citizenship status in a nation. There is still a feeling of ethnic identity that is linked to national identity. In my experience, this is certainly the case. Someone here criticized me for saying this but I think they were being a bit unrealistic as to how well people of other cultures and foreign ethnicities can actually integrate into European society. I think Europeans might not be as conscious of it as Americans are because they live in much more homogeneous societies.;  soccer fans? well, lets put it like that: everytime the local soccer club plays (and thats very often imho) police helicopters are hovering over the city and hundreds of policemen are engaged. the worst asocial scum destillates at the stadium, many filled to the brim even before the game.   ;Quote:Original post by maximALsoccer fans? well, lets put it like that: everytime the local soccer club plays (and thats very often imho) police helicopters are hovering over the city and hundreds of policemen are engaged. the worst asocial scum destillates at the stadium, many filled to the brim even before the game.Sounds like the scene (albeit on a smaller scale) that was occuring just up the street when the hockey playoffs started.  I was soooo happy when Calgary lost and got booted out of the series, less drunken morons, and more peace and quiet in the neighbourhood.;Quote:Original post by maximALsoccer fans? well, lets put it like that: everytime the local soccer club plays (and thats very often imho) police helicopters are hovering over the city and hundreds of policemen are engaged. the worst asocial scum destillates at the stadium, many filled to the brim even before the game.You hit it right on the nail there. Up here you rarely see soccer fans; you instead see skinheads from the local White Pride club or blue-yellow hooligans fighting. I don't see much racism, I merely see scum wanting to have a bad excuse to fight   ;Quote:Original post by RavuyaYou have to consider the source -- soccer games are attended by the same kind of people that attend American football games. I'd hardly call the American football fans (on the whole; I watch football and soccer, okay?) the illuminatus of America.Yeah, but American football fans don't heckle players with monkey chants and the like.Quote:Original post by RavuyaThere's also the crowd mentality -- I wouldn't shout at a baseball player and call him mean names if it were just me in the stands, but I end up doing it because my fellow crowd-types are doing it (and I want to show off how much smarter I am than them by shouting my witty remarks against a roar of fan-noise, where nobody will ever hear me). That was a bit too insightful. [crying]Next time, sit closer to the television cameras and your heckles might just make it to the airwaves. [smile]I think this article might be intended to make Americans feel good about the status of race relations in the USA. However, there have been other news items about racism fouling up the WC:  Germany concerned racism could ruin WC, Germany's toughest opponent: extremists, East German state leader denies no-go areas exist;Quote:Original post by trzyCultural integration in Europe hasn't exactly been a stunning success. There is still an overall undercurrent of racism. I've heard it said that to be a European takes more than just citizenship status in a nation. There is still a feeling of ethnic identity that is linked to national identity. In my experience, this is certainly the case. Someone here criticized me for saying this but I think they were being a bit unrealistic as to how well people of other cultures and foreign ethnicities can actually integrate into European society. I think Europeans might not be as conscious of it as Americans are because they live in much more homogeneous societies.Where is this mythical nation you call "Europe"? There's no such country. Please stop claiming that a continent of half a billion people, spread across dozens of different nations and cultures, often with histories and cultures dating back thousands of years, can ever behave as if they were one nation and one homogenous society.Racism will never go away. It's just a form of discrimination like any other. Discrimination is an integral part of us. We're tribal animals. We _love_ to categorise: to pattern-match and pigeonhole. We cheerfully create exclusive cliques and gangs; millionaires' clubs and football fan clubs. It gives us that sense of 'belonging'. Of being in a group -- a tribe -- which becomes your mental "Us" and separates you from "Them". People don't support Arsenal Football Club because they're from Woolwich Arsenal. Arsenal FC's football stadium in Highbury, North London is nearly 20 miles from Woolwich, as well as being on the wrong side of the river. (They were founded in Woolwich's Royal Arsenal in 1866, moving out to Highbury in 1913). Like Manchester United or Crystal Palace, the name of the team is just a convenient, but basically meaningless, label. It's a tribal totem, nothing more.There is no such thing as the Totally Tolerant Human Being: there will always be _something_ each person doesn't much care for, whether it be huge 1970s afro haircuts, spitting in public, or hardcore rock music. Where there is a large, dominant culture, integration is not possible. The UK demonstrates this. One cannot "integrate" a minority culture into another, much larger, one. Forget it, it's not going to happen. What _will_ happen is that each subsequent generation will be born and raised entirely within the dominant culture, so that culture will increasingly become _their_ culture too. Each subsequent generation drifts that little bit further away from their homeland's culture. Eventually, there's only a faint hint of the original culture left.In the US, where the original cultures were all but wiped out and the remains are now kept in a bunch of glorified safari parks, it can be argued that there should be more opportunity for immigrants to add their own cultures to that of the region they're moving to. New Orleans, for example, had -- I visited in 2000, before Katrina dropped by -- very clear French / Creole cultural influences, even down to the architecture and street names. There is also a possibility that California -- or at least the southern half of it -- might end up with a unique, mixed Anglo-Hispanic culture.There is some racism in every nation on this planet. It's not whether racism exists, but how well it is dealt with and prevented from becoming a mainstream form of tribalism that is important.The UK is a collection of islands. ALL Britons are immigrants. Even the Irish Celts sailed there from Iberia. Culture-clashes are not new.Racism also isn't limited to "white" people. It's quite normal for one immigrant culture to clash with another, particularly when the two have wildly differing rules and customs. Insecurity tends to breed such raw, tribal reactions and insularity. And there's nothing like being part of a minority group to make one feel insecure. In general, it's stubborn dogmatism masquerading as racism that bothers the headlines, rather than straightforward name-calling. The current "War On Terror" is a case in point. Another is the occasional rows over schoolwear, as well as the thorny issue of arranged marriages. When neither side is willing to compromise, something has to give. That's why we have conflict.Discrimination isn't going to go away. There is no magic bullet. It's never that simple. Ever.;  I don't know exactly what's happening in other countries, but I would agree racism is on the rise in the Netherlands. It's not the soccer hooligans that worry me however, it's that subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) racist and fascist influence in society in general and on the government in particular that scare me the most. Discrimination has always been here, but whats new (for me at least) is that it's getting more and more normalized. People seem to love the though talk of populist politicians who promise to be 'hard' on the immigrants and force them to 'integrate' (read: assimilate). We have this minister of 'integration' who is a total nut job and got the Netherlands a fine ruling by the european court of justice that she has violated some human rights agreement by deporting a refugee back to Iraq or something where he would have a good chance to be executed. But people are not really worrying about violating human rights, because she is so though! (yeah, don't we just love fascism these days)What's funny is that last year we had a record of 130.000 people emigrating, some because they are sick of this country. (I don't make this up). Lots of older immigrants now leave the Netherlands because they don't feel at home here anymore (even after decades). It all started after 9/11.A nice story about this was told by a teacher of mine. She was not really well, so once when she walked to the university she nearly fell and some man near her was quick enough to catch her. When she looked up, she saw a terrified look of an immigrant, who was quick to walk away, because he was afraid of being accused of something. For being a 'foreigner' of course. I don't have any numbers at hand but it wouldn't surprise me if emigration > immigration at the moment. Even dutch people are emigrating because the law to marry a foreigner is so strict  for a whole category of people they have no choice but emigration to be with their loved ones. We are unique to other European countries in this respect. Uniquely assholed. So indeed, the anti-immigration proponents have succeeded very well.Sorry for the rant.   ;  sidenote: i think the immigration issues that are going on in the West are forcing those governments to take a closer look and more pro-active (and hopefully positive) steps into dealing with the poverty of their poorer neighbors. (Most of which were influenced or directly affected by a Western country or power [for the worse].)   