   becoming a programmer
  How hard is it to land a job as a programmer?  Not necessarily as a game developer but as anything?Suppose I could program my own game using C++, SDL, and OpenGL.  I could load 3D characters and have them interact in a 2D world sort of like the town maps in Final Fantasy 7.  I'd have an inventory and you could talk to people and have dungeons and puzzles.  And I had all the code for potential employers to look at.Suppose I knew all about C++ and polymorphism and inheritance and I had the code to prove it.  And also I knew Python and Java and I knew how to use Oracle and SQL.But then suppose I had zero experience ever getting paid to do any of it.How hard would it be to get my foot in the door?  Where should I start looking?Are some cities better than others?  If I'm in St. Louis would it be smart to move to San Francisco or somewhere and find some blue collar work to support myself while I look for a software job?Basically I'm unemployed right now but I have a $9 an hour job lined up that could pay my rent and feed me.  But I have around $35,000 in the bank saved up from my last job and the way I spend I could survive off of that for another 4 years.  So I'm wondering if it would be smart for me to take the dumb job and program in my spare time.  Or would it be smarter to stay unemployed and code as much as I can and get a software job as soon as I can?   
  Well, I know of two game companies in St. Louis. The question is though, do you have a college degree and a portfolio? If not then what steps have you taken in acquiring both of these? Game company or otherwise, pretty well any software company is going to want to see a degree and some sort of portfolio.   ;  I'm not going to school.  I don't know what a portfolio is.  Do mean a software that I've written than I can show to employers?  I'm working on that.Are you sure you need a degree to be a computer programmer?  I'm not so sure about that.   ;Quote:I don't know what a portfolio is.Well, you should probably learn how to look things up. It's a good skill to have.Quote:Are you sure you need a degree to be a computer programmer? I'm not so sure about that.I'm pretty sure it's still possible to get hired without a diploma. It's definitely possible to get hired with a degree that's isn't in a computer discipline (Oluseyi has a degree in something altogether different). That said, I think most places won't even bother looking at your resume if you don't have a degree. You can always work for yourself.   ;Quote:Original post by icecubeflowerI'm not going to school.  I don't know what a portfolio is.  Do mean a software that I've written than I can show to employers?  I'm working on that.Are you sure you need a degree to be a computer programmer?  I'm not so sure about that.The fact that you don't know what a portfolio is pretty well illustrates why going to school and getting a degree is so important. Being a professional programmer is much, much more than simply knowing how to program. A professional programmer needs to understand corporate hierarchy, be able to speak in front of his peers, understand how to balance software development between multiple programmers, be relatively proficient in technical writing, have proven success at meeting deadlines, etc. This is stuff you don't learn when taking a lonewolf approach to your learning.Is it an absolute necessity at all companies to have a degree? No, probably not. Is there a single programmer out of the around 30 at my company that doesn't have a B.S.? Nope. That piece of paper proves that you have at least a minimal amount of experience with all of the subjects I listed above. Without it then you are going to need come up with that experience somewhere else, which is pretty difficult to do.   ;  Well I guess I guess I'll take the job then.  I'm used to working with stone but the economy is wrecked.  Hopefully I can get back into it soon because it's the only way I know how to make a buck.   ;  If you have $35,000 saved up, then why don't you just get yourself into school and get a degree? The economy is tough right now, but there are game programming jobs out there for those who are qualified.   ;  No way, man.You guys are probably right about the degree making it easier to find work.  It seems kind of dumb to me, though.  I've met a couple guys with Comp Sci degrees who could barely program.I'm not gung-ho about being a game programmer, I'd just like to be any kind of programmer.Granite's not a bad gig.  Maybe you guys are right but I'd rather keep working with stone than go to school.  I can do a lot better than $9 an hour usually.  The $9 gig isn't with stone, it's metal fabrication and I'd be entry level.  When I find stone work again I average around $15 to run CNC's in STL.  In Seattle or some place like that you make around $20.   ;Quote:Original post by icecubeflowerHow hard is it to land a job as a programmer?  Not necessarily as a game developer but as anything?It varies based on where you are, the general economy, your general skills, who you know, etc, etc. In the grand scheme of things, landing a job as a programmer is fairly weird since it's so novel and the level of programmers varies so greatly.Quote:*snip* you know some technologies */snip*Knowing technologies does not a programmer make.Quote:But then suppose I had zero experience ever getting paid to do any of it.How hard would it be to get my foot in the door?  Where should I start looking?You'd start looking at a bar. Without any degree, your best bet is to know the hiring manager or a programmer there that can get you past HR. The vast majority of HR departments will see no degree and just toss the resume. The vast majority of hiring managers will get tons of resumes to look through and will just toss the non-degree ones to cut down their workload.Quote:Are some cities better than others?  If I'm in St. Louis would it be smart to move to San Francisco or somewhere and find some blue collar work to support myself while I look for a software job?Some cities are better than others. Silicon Valley might have the most jobs, but it'll also have the most engineers. It'll also have a lot of skilled hiring managers which might be good (they can tell if you know your stuff) or bad (they're used to people that know their stuff well).If you have any choice in the matter, go to a good school for computer science. It'll save you years in working your way into the job and get you 10-20k per year increased salary once you get there. It doesn't matter that some CS grads are functionally retarded, HR departments can't tell the difference. They'll hire the guy with the degree.   ;  Oh.  Well I guess I'm damned to be a granite fabricator forever.Sorry, I didn't mean to waste anybody's time.  I'm not going to school.  It's just I lost my job in March and I've been coding for fun for a long time.  I thought it would be easier to get a job programming than it is.   