   vertex positons after manipulation
  Hi, I'm relatively new to opengl, so far i've made a 2d snake game(with blur) and a few little 3d things.what I'd like to be able to do is to create a vertex, rotate, move and scale it, and then be able know the new position so i can calculate it's proximity to the cursorfrom the sounds of things, it seems like people can't live without "glut", but I'd like to know a way of doing it without Glut. in other forums the only response i got was "glut glut glut" (not a direct quote) with no explanation thanks   
  glut is only a window interface written in a simular flow of OpenGL.  Indeed, you can use most exsting window interface with OpenGL (e.g. MFC, VB... ).  There are quite a lot of OpenGL examples avaliable on the internet which is not using glut.Here is one of them...http://nehe.gamedev.net/   ;  I've already had a look at the Nehe webpage, but i had a look again and couldnt find anything that answers my problem.i don't really mind if i use glut or not   ;  well, anyone?   ;  Perhaps the NeHe tutorial on picking (here) could help?HTH,NB.   ;  Multiply your stored vertex position by your projection and modelview matricies to get the final position of the vertex (in window coordinates if you're using an ortho view set up with your window resolution). You could also use picking depending on your implementation, but that would be slower and you wouldn't get a coordinate back, just which "objects" your mouse is hovering over, all depends on what you want to do in the long run.edit: I guess you could use gluProject to do all the mathsy bits for you.[Edited by - DeathCarrot on January 23, 2008 5:34:47 AM];  so basically i calculate the new position with "my own code", then use a distance formula to find the closest point, then draw the vertecies with the pre-calculated  positions? or can i use opengl rather than "my own code" to do these calculations, without drawing it?the way you described was similar to the way i used to do it, so i guess i can go back to doing it that way, but it will probably take longer as more vetricies are introduced to the program.oh, i see your edit.. i'll take a look   