   Games that feel like Tolkien
  OK, I''ve killed a legion of orcs, I''ve played many phantasy themed games, I''ve even seen the first two LotR movies - yet when I have read the books I have found them thoroughly fresh and new. What games capture some of the essence of Tolkien''s books?  What could be done to make some more Tolkienesque games?As far as strategy games go, single player Total Annihilation came close to some of the war scenes from LotR. Watching a multitude of enemy blips approaching on the radar has something of that feeling of evil foreboding of the darkness smoke coming over the land out of Mordor. The computer attacks in large waves, bringing the players defenses very close to collapse yet the short quiet intervals allow for some breathing time and desperate repairs. At the height of an attack all often comes down to the survival of a single defense structure or a few units - much like the acts of heroes change the outcome of battles in LotR. Now Total Annihilation cheats its way into allowing the player to win against hope - the wrecks of the defeated attacking forces can be used as resources - barely surviving can be good enough to win in the long run. The old Lords of Midnight (theres a good remake somewhere on the net) does the epic good vs. evil fight very well. Perhaps it''s because you care about the heroes which you have to recruit - as the evil legions spread their terror they lose hope and become tired - and many are overcome despite their valor - and some fight despite losing their homes - which you have to sacrifice in order to defend the big citadels. So what do I have here - a Z80 game - and a SF RTS with all sorts of robots. Am I missing anything?  
quote:Original post by Diodor  The old Lords of Midnight......Blimey, you''re old!I just got my copies of LOM and Doomdark''s Revenge out of a box in the loft and put them on my software shelf. Great games.   Dan MarchantObscure Productions (www.obscure.co.uk)Game Development & Design consultant ;  imho Total Annihilation is still the best rts on the market, for a couple reasons too.1) It's epic, just like Tolkien's works. Everything about it is epic, from the story, to the music, to the weapons.2) Very good control over units, thier queues, commands and actions.3) Commander w/ D-Gun is the ultimate hero in an army of epic size. You become the commander when you play. It's a great tool for stopping early game rushes.4) Very strong sense of good vs. evil. People who play as Arm hate the Core, and the Core hate the Arm. The Krogoth is a pure symbol of evil and destruction.5)Maps that are bigger than the size of your backyard. You can't have epic battles on small patchs of terrain. Nothing is cooler than seeing a huge enemy army approach and know that you have 5 minutes to get your defenses ready.6)Many different units. The diversity was great, although the stealth fighters were over powered.Edit: The project I'm working on is going to be similar to TA, but based in a world of magic.    [edited by - SiliconMunky on December 4, 2003 6:00:56 PM];  May I suggest you check out The Battle for Middle-Earth.  It looks like what your looking for. ;quote:Original post by ObscureBlimey, you''re old!Lol, that''s my first one quote:I just got my copies of LOM and Doomdark''s Revenge out of a box in the loft and put them on my software shelf. Great games. Indeed. I wonder whether the first person view was an essential part of what made those games great. The confusing controls of the LOM game are breaking some of my first rules regarding what a shareware game should be like (make it so it can be played fast, make it easy to understand, never confuse the player, etc.). However there were some great moments in the game, as the fear of being lost and alone amongst enemies, the joy of suddenly finding a friendly citadel or a lord lost inside some forest which couldn''t have appeared in a more user-friendly game. There also was too much work with LOM for the player. I believe that if these problems should be solved and these contradictions brought to peace, a sequel of LOM could be a killer shareware game. quote:3) Commander w/ D-Gun is the ultimate hero in an army of epic size. You become the commander when you play. It''s a great tool for stopping early game rushes.Right, the commander was often the source of heroic moments. An unique unit, offering many advantages (economic as well as military), the commander had good defense and devastating short-range attack (providing there were enough power plants available) but would explode in a massive atomic blast, taking with it much of the forces around him. As such the commander would save the day as often as he would get himself killed (sometimes doing both at the same time). quote:4) Very strong sense of good vs. evil. People who play as Arm hate the Core, and the Core hate the Arm. The Krogoth is a pure symbol of evil and destruction.What''s the Krogoth? Playing as arm I did find the Core hateful (though I didn''t go as far as actually hating it) but not the reverse.. I don''t know, I think that making a game where good vs. evil applies for both sides just as well, as modern an endeavour as it be, is not what Tolkien had in mind.The starting games however - with those massive attacks against my tiny base - do give a very strong good vs. evil feeling (my faction or theirs notwithstanding).quote:5)Maps that are bigger than the size of your backyard. You can''t have epic battles on small patchs of terrain. Nothing is cooler than seeing a huge enemy army approach and know that you have 5 minutes to get your defenses ready.Especially when your armies are tiny compared to what''s coming. quote:Original post by Rob LoachMay I suggest you check out The Battle for Middle-Earth. It looks like what your looking for.I don''t want a game that "looks" like Tolkien, I want a game that "feels" like Tolkien. The former is too common, the latter is too rare. ;So what else is special in Tolkien''s works yet uncommon in games? The sense of wonder of seeing the world through a halflings eyes. (The encounter between the war arrayed oliphant and the hobbit comes to mind.) Games use to have the player look at the world through heroes if not gods eyes. A sense of magic and uniqueness and legends - tightly bound with the passage of time and loss that cannot be restored and nostalgia. Games usually go in the "the best is yet to come just keep on having fun" direction. If you''ve played ADOM, the tiny girl quest is what I''m talking about - losing the little pup always makes me sad, because there''s nothing else to make the tiny girl happy for the remainder of the game. As a consequence, it is always a joy to come out of that dungeon (bulky troll or skinny elf) with a puppy running around. A sense of magic as a hidden thing. Tolkien spends a lot of effort to hide the magic rules of the world beneath layers and layers of ages and legends and secrecy and plots. Games on the other hand put everything on the table right away (+5 ring of fire etc.). ;quote:Original post by Diodor  A sense of magic as a hidden thing. Tolkien spends a lot of effort to hide the magic rules of the world beneath layers and layers of ages and legends and secrecy and plots. Games on the other hand put everything on the table right away (+5 ring of fire etc.).Do you realize that a "Ring of Fire +5" make no sense at all in a book ?Especially at a time when RPGs didn''t even exist ?Tolkien didn''t hide anything, he just described things as we were doing in tells.*- off-topic -*However I agree about the fact that so called "RPG" made on computer devices (consoles/PCs/Macs...) are really nothing but hack & slash and treasure hunting. It''s only about leveling and getting the best items, so it requires the player to know the capabilities of items.   -* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-;quote:Original post by DiodorWhat''s the Krogoth? Playing as arm I did find the Core hateful (though I didn''t go as far as actually hating it) but not the reverse.. I don''t know, I think that making a game where good vs. evil applies for both sides just as well, as modern an endeavour as it be, is not what Tolkien had in mind.quote:The Krogoth is from the expansion pack "The Core Contingency". It is the most powerfull unit in the game. It has it''s own factory and can withstand a direct d-gun attack.I also think TA is on of the best RTS games I know. And it''s even more fun on modern hardware. I always found the max unit limit of 200 a bit low, but with a patch you can increase this to any number you want! Attacking your enemy with a force of 500 tanks, kbots and planes! Talk about massive!There are not many games that can give you as much immersion as TA. A think that is pretty good. TA doesn''t have a compelling story (just two sides that hate each other) or any characters to care about. You are viewing everything from a distance. You are not the commander, you control the commander. You can continue playing after the commander is destroyed. But even then you can totally immerse yourself in the game. Maybe the absence of a story, or only hints of a story, are the key to this. It forces you to use your imagination, just like reading a book. The beatifull maps help a lot ofcourse and so does the music.   ;  Morrowind is a great RPG - nothing like Tolkien. it''s a completely different world with its own story, character, races, etc... but it''s the best RPG i''ve ever played - i actually can''t play others anymore because they lack so much. It''s also the most Open-Ended game you''ll probably ever play (well until the next Elder Scrolls is made) ;quote:Original post by Wizzy  Morrowind is a great RPG - nothing like Tolkien. it''s a completely different world with its own story, character, races, etc... but it''s the best RPG i''ve ever played - i actually can''t play others anymore because they lack so much. It''s also the most Open-Ended game you''ll probably ever play (well until the next Elder Scrolls is made)   In my opinion Morrowind is the wose computer RPG ever.No story, nothing to do, nice landscape, poor fighting, no puzzles, poor animation system, poor engine performances.I bought it, and I still can''t believe it was given good reviews, I would give it 4/10 for the graphics.   -* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-