   Bridging Game Programming and Design
  Hello,I'm new to the site but not to the game industry.  I come from a game design background and am interested in submitting an article to gamedev.net  My mentor was Stieg Hedlund (Diablo I & II) so you know I'm not some random noob.The intended article I'm researching for is about bridging game programming and design.  So for those who have worked with those designers who seem to think you yourselves are made of code and ask for 20 10,000 poly onscreen free thinking AI Agents, fully raytraced with 17 dynamic point lights at a crystal clear 120 fps, please let me know what your biggest complaints toward designers are.Do they ask for much?  Or rather do they come to you with too broad and general requests?  How do they make your job harder than it already is?  What names do you call them in your sleep?  Thanks in advanced.Nat LohGame Art & Designwww.grooveboot.comNote to moderator:  I know that this is a design issue but I need feedback from game programmers.  Please keep this thread here.  Thanks.[edited by - nat_loh on February 16, 2004 4:52:11 AM]
  Most designers I have worked with have been fine and understood the limitations of the target hardware. In my opinion any designer who would ask for 2 much all the time would be a pretty bad designer (and probably comes from a testing background). In my experience the best designers are 80% designers 20% programmers or artists at least then they appreciate the problems you are up against. Again this is only my opinion but I think that designers who only design are of limited worth on a project. They are generally the people who didn't have the talent to be a coder or an artist. Ouch!   [edited by - jonbell on February 16, 2004 7:52:47 AM];  hoho,judging from the lack of replies i guess everyone else must either feel the same way or just haven''t really worked with designers.  i guess i''ll reconsider my ideas.  thanks for the input.  Nat ;  Well, you didn''t exactly wait very long! At least give it a day so that everybody who visits daily gets a chance to see the topic.However, I think you''ll find that 90% of the programmers on this forum are their own designers, working on individual projects.   [ MSVC Fixes | STL Docs | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost  Asking Questions | Organising code files | My stuff | Tiny XML | STLPort] ;  You''ll need to leave the topic up for at least a week. Anyway - in my experience you also had another issue - sort of an opposite problem. The designers typically wrote the design around the previous games'' limitations... another problem that you get when the designers are put in a room to "design" without being tightly involved in day-to-day development activities. So you''d get some strange (often fundamental) design decisions based upon the false assumption that "Our engine can''t do this."The answer to this is not to have designers work in a vacuum. EVER. The team leads should ALL be part of the "design team" - although in smaller companies EVERYONE should be part of that team, with the designer captaining the boat during the design phase. ;  Man I wish i would have saved our conversations, He made sure "he needed shaders, inverse kinetics so the animation was realistic, scripting, 20 textures painted on teh heightmap terrain, with a shader so it looks like half life.." basicaly he heard 10 graphics related words and made a paragraph as best as he could, and called him self ceo of a company and that he was excited to start production.edit:me and this guy arent on good terms causei told him what a jackass he was, anways i tricked him into talking...convo: (damn this ones not that funny, but i guess i cant as for much after probably making him cry..)me: what kind of technical features did ur engine need?him: its 4am dude, sorry? me: its 11 here, you've talked later then thishim: yea well i feel like shit . anyway what do you mean me: you needed what, like inverse kinetics, heightmap terrain, what was the list of technical features u needed, i think i can find you an engine for like 20 bucks that will do ithim: Well for 20 bucks it doesnt sound too good, but we didnt want anything very techical , Vast Detailed Landscapes,Heightmap Terrain ..theres a list  me: its a beta so it could have bugs but it will be released for comercial games, i'm gona email this guy in a few about some things iw as thinking about, give me the list and i'll be sure to ask him about themhim: ok give me a minture me: khim: Minute me: hurry im ready to send minehim: yea wont be a sed him: Sec him: ok ive just come up with something small me: khim: Sent via email ---email----List Of Some Technical Information:Vast Detailed LandscapesInteractive Terrain - Soldiers rag-doll death, vehicles collide with objects. Multi-Resolution - Able to switch from small to large screen resolutions. Multiplayer - Multiplayer component allows players to play across P2P and dedicated servers.RTS Elements - Gameplay Real-Time Strategy like C&C Generals and Commandos.Multi Weather Effects - Snow, Rain, Fog, Lighting, Thunder, Wind.Heightmap Terrain - Terrain is created by a flat plane and is deformed by height, can be smoothed.Vertex Painting- allows multiple textures to be painted across the terrain, able to smooth textures with alpha blending. GUI - Able to customize the User Interface.Animations - Character, Vehicle, Static Animations.Particle Emitter effects. Text Cinematic's  [edited by - honayboyz on February 17, 2004 11:16:06 PM]edit: the rest of the storyhim: Sent via email him: They ok? me: yuphim: ok  him: So give me more information about what your talking about? me: i was lieinghim: huh? me: i liedme: no engine, no 20 buckshim: o ok me: sorry to get u excitedhim: Excited at 4am, naw    [edited by - honayboyz on February 17, 2004 11:19:56 PM]edit: aftermath, this kid is seriously letting me down tongiht (i realized who simon was after i googled it)me: Bridging Game Programming and Design - GameDev.Net Forumsme: last posthim: Im glad me: haha thats it?him: Yea... me: would it change if i posted your email and screen names?me: you people ruin the communityhim: Simon Cowell me: maybe im too young, simon cowell?him: Ill be blocking you now, bye bye jackass  me: wait hes a on american idolme: thats so faghim signed off at 11:24:51 PM. How illegal or how requested would this guys name be on here, we should get a list of get a grip.   [edited by - honayboyz on February 17, 2004 11:27:25 PM]