   Shogun Protector - CSS Ninja-Style
  Hi,I have an idea for a Counter Strike type mod for the source engine.Game TitleShogun Protector.ConceptThe game will be similar to Counter Strike. Samurais guard a palace, Ninjas must break in. This is similar to bomb maps in CS, the ninjas must pick a lock to enter the palace, if they do this, they win.GameplayThe game will not focus on realism or historical facts, but will not be fantasy and magic. There will however be "fantastic" movement and weapons.All characters move faster than they do in CS. 2-3 times faster.Jumping will be more spectacular, 2-3 times higher than in CS. Possible to jump onto a vertical surface and jump higher.Rooftops will be a major battlefield.Special featuresDouble jumps(from walls etc)Ninjas can stick to the ceiling and drop silently behind the unsuspecting samurai(little to no movement when on the ceiling).Running is near silent, sprinting makes a little more noise. (Sound will be a major factor in this game).WeaponsRangedShurikenThrowing axe.BlowpipeBow(composite and longbow)Handheld cannon, small rocket launcher. Move slower when carrying this. Maybe it should come in 2 sizes?Fighting fanMeleeKatana(can it cut the wooden weapons?)WakizashiSpearKamaNunchuckSaiStaff/BoGrenadesBlinding powder(short duration).Delayed grenades(can be thrown back)Smoke bomb(cartoon style, puff and hang 2-3 seconds. Not CS style.)UtilityBody armour(Samurai armour is better)Grappling hook.Poison?Antidote?Net/snare?SummaryThe game will be fastpaced with a healthy mix of melee and ranged combat. Sneaky business is encouraged, but stealth should not be the focus, action is the focus. Hopefully melee combat can work in a game like this. The grenades will have short duration, but the players will be able to carry more than in CS, they could be a very active part of the game, but 100% blind for several seconds is not going to happen.What do you guys think? Is the idea hopeless? any suggestions and criticism is welcome.[Edited by - Rasped on May 15, 2009 12:00:04 PM]
  I don't understand how the game will work.Is there a palace in the game map which the samurais have to protect, and the two 'classic' bomb spots are two gates to enter into it?If so, what to prevent the samurais just to stick there? In fact, if the ninjas win only picking a lock, there is no way the samurais can leave a gate unguarded, or a ninja will sneack past them, unlock a gate and win the game.In cs, even if the terrorist succeed in placing the bomb, there is still time for the anti-terrorist squad to fix the thing. Also, the ninjas should be able to pick only one of the two locks.And it would be nice if also the samurais have a special ability, or it would be unfair for the teams. If ninjas work on stealth, maybe something about teamwork for samurais? I can't come up with good ideas, sorry ^_^"   ;Is there a palace in the game map which the samurais have to protect, and the two 'classic' bomb spots are two gates to enter into it?Yes palace with two gates, bomb spots = locks.If so, what to prevent the samurais just to stick there?Nothing stops them sticking there... just like CT in CS.In fact, if the ninjas win only picking a lock, there is no way the samurais can leave a gate unguarded, or a ninja will sneack past them, unlock a gate and win the game.Ninjas can also win by killing all opponents, so can Samurai.In cs, even if the terrorist succeed in placing the bomb, there is still time for the anti-terrorist squad to fix the thing. Also, the ninjas should be able to pick only one of the two locks.I hadn't thought of that. Maybe the gate needs to be unlocked, and then it takes x minutes for it to swing open, it is a large gate afterall... heavy, made of lead and gold and other heavy stuff... Seriously, I had forgotten about that, that needs work for sure.And it would be nice if also the samurais have a special ability, or it would be unfair for the teams. If ninjas work on stealth, maybe something about teamwork for samurais? I can't come up with good ideas, sorry ^_^"Ninjas don't work entirely on stealth, they just have the ability to stick to the ceiling. As for special ability for the samurai, it could be that they have slightly more HP, and maybe their armor would be better than the Ninjas. Or they have a power attack of sort. "KI"? where they shout while attacking making their attack more powerful also alerting their team mates.Overall though, both teams have roughly the same skills and weapons.You made good points, please keep them coming.   ;  Shouldn't the real goal for the ninjas be, once they infiltrate the palace, to assassinate someone inside or something like that? Be more creative with your goals. Have inside fights, too, and various other settings, like a big oriental garden.Other than that, it sounds like a blast. Good luck!PS: For inspiration regarding movement, look at Parkour, if you haven't already.   ;  So far, it sounds like the ninjas can jump high, do cool stunts, and be silent, and to me, none of that would seem to work for samurai. Their armour is not huge, but you certainly couldnt jump around and off walls in it, even if the ceiling clinging is ninja only, id think the samurai shouldnt jump as high, be as fast or silent, either. So, that said, you need to give the samurai something cool to make up for it and balance the power.Next, unlocking a gate is not a very good goal. Getting a door open intuitively is only the first step. If my only aim was to open the door, then what was so important indeed to prompt opening it? No, you need something inside to protect which requires entering the palace through one of two locked gates which can be picked and relocked. The gate should also be destroyable preventing the relocking of it, but that should take some time. I would suggest taking this into capture the flag territory and give some dingus inside to steal, or at least do that as an alternate game mode.   ;  Game modes:I think the original bomb mission in CS is ready applicable to the ninja game. Ninja can bomb things too (and samurai will defuse the bombs, and yes, it doesn't matter whether you want samurai that uses radios).If you don't want bombing you could do kidnapping. That is equivalent to hostage rescue in CS, except the rescue area becomes the kidnap area.Unlocking Door:This could be mechanism for the ninjas to open paths. The ninjas could hack the walls. They could basically do to any wall. It would take time like defusing a bomb and could be interrupted by samurai on patrol. Each wall hack is good for one character going through once. So if you also want an escape route you need to hack two times. Samurai cannot tell whether a wall is hacked and cannot fix it. The only way to guard against wall hacking is to be on patrol. Bow:The bow is among the strongest and most long-ranged weapon. Only samurais can start a round with bows and quiver. When a character is carrying a bow, the character cannot jump high and cannot hack through walls. A ninja can only get a bow by taking it from a samuraiOther big weapons: Naginata, yari, dai-katana, mini-gun, shotgun, attack dog, ladder, bucket, hoe, temple bell, koto, horse, taikoSimilar to the bow, only samurais could start the game with these weapons. They also limit jumps, disallow wall hacking, and disallow swimming/going into water. Samurai can never hack a wall, floor, or roof. Only samurai can start the game on horseback. Character variety and impersonation:The character playing on the side of the samurai could take the appearance of a court person (man or woman), monk, general, samurai with armor, samurai with no armor, soldier, police, beggar, vendor, geisha, child, etc. These are forms that they can choose as they start the game. The ninjas do not have these choices. They start out as ninja (black outfit and all). But when they kill someone, they could impersonate the victim. In most map, there are some npcs that the ninjas could kill and impersonate. The game punishes samurai when they kill innocent people (that is when the player mistaken the vendor as a ninja and killed the vendor.)   ;  Love your idea except gate-picking really shouldnt be the main goal. I think gates are something level-specific. In CS you sometimes have big gates you can open by pushing a special button, you could change that to open them by working on the lock for some seconds and samurai can open and close the gate whenever they want. If you follow the above mentioned suggestion and use kidnapping as a possible goal, the ninja may be forced to climb over a wall and open the gate to open an escape route for the kidnapper and its victim.Another good goal would be to kill the samurais master. Of cause this could be to easy if you use ranged weapons but if the master is placed in a secure position of the household and ninja / samurai have to fight over 1-2 chokepoints before they can reach him, it could work.Now to the abilities, I dont like to complex mechanisms like impersonate or some thing like that. I feel its enough to give the ninja / samurai some different equipment options. Like samurai start out with a strong body armor and ninja are only able to buy light armor. Samurai can buy the biggest and strongest weapons like a bow, the cannon / rocket launcher and ninja have some options that feature their faster / more agile style like throwing stars, a rope to climb somewhere samurai cant get etc.You also might want to think about how the multiplayer of splinter cell worked. There were levels included where you had multiple goals to fullfill one after the other with respawn if you die. This can be fun with sub-goals like opening the main gate, destroying the weaponschamber (so that the samurai cant use the biggest special weapons anymore) and finally killing the master. But I think your better off with smaller levels.   ;  I think there are a lot of nice ideas, but they make the game a lot more complicated that it was intended to be. A CS clone doesn't need sub-objective or such, it should offer just a similar stage with different gameplay, which I think is what the OP was trying to do.I came up with some ideas, let's see if you like it.First, the ninjas to win haven't to open a gate. The Shogun palace is usually heavily guarded, it's difficult that a small group of ninjas could enter and kill the Shogun without being intercepted. Also, it's strange for people who fights on roof to have to open a gate in order to surpass a wall.The ninjas to win have to poison the palace water supply. There are two openings to two different water tanks, and the ninjas have only one poison vial. If they succeed in poisoning the water, the samurais have still time to lock the poisoned tank with some kind of mechanism.This way, the winning/losing system should be practically the same of the CS one.On the side of special abilities, it could be this way: if the ninjas have the ability to stick and walk on ceilings, and hide better, the samurais have keys to pass through some otherwise locked doors whithin the map buildings. ( After all, the match is happening just outside the Shogun Palace, it should be normal to the guards to have the keys ). I don't know if it should be possible to steal the keys, samurais cannot steal the ability to stick on the walls of the ninjas.Or at least, if the keys are stealable, they work only for that round, and giving the samurais some more time to fix a poisoned tank could be a decent solution to balance the game.   ;  The 'key' could be knowledge, like a combination, and not a physical key. There could be levers or buttons to press in order to open doors, and that could change each round. Then the Samurai would have special paths they could take as short cuts in and around the area, and the ninjas could similarly have special paths to move around the area.Equipment wise, the Samurai would have heavier protection and higher damage heavy weapons, and the ninjas would have light armour and light weapons.Overall the gameplay would need to be balanced for fairly even mobility, damage, and defense.   ;  If you haven't already, take a look at 3D Realms' Shadow Warrior, one of the more interesting takes on ninja/samurai in a first-person shooter style.