   Drag & drop inventory
  I've noticed that a lot of games seem to be using this system, from very old to very new. My question is why? Am I the only one who totally dislikes this interface style?It seems like there are only rare situations where the player needs to choose a specific place put something. Chest armor goes on the chest. Boots go on the feet. Why require players to drag it to that location?There are a few situations where dragging is difficult to avoid. Armed weapons, if each hand can be armed with the same items. Or item belts, where each slot represents a key/button. I'm actually still looking for an alternative to drag/drop for the item belt concept.Anyway, I'm just asking out of curiosity. Why are so many games being designed to use drag and drop? It's slow, tedious, and a leading cause of carpal tunnel.   
  I think that you're glossing over some of the benefits of drag-and-drop inventories. For example, a potion you can drag onto your character to drink, into your quick-access belt, or onto the floor to drop it. Actually, anything can be dropped on the ground or equipped. In games such as Neverwinter Nights, you can drag items into the hotkeys at the bottom of the screen for easy use. In many games, you have limited inventory space, requiring you to drag and drop items around to fit them into your inventory nicely. In a point-and-click adventure, you  can drag one item onto another to 'use this with that'. Overall, I think that it provides a lot of flexibility.Now, I do agree that dragging boots precisely onto the boot section is a little unnecessary. Unless this is Nethack and I can also wield my boots*, chances are I'm going to put them on my feet. In this case, I think that you could let the player drag and drop the items onto to their character and the game would automatically know where to put them. This would retain the benefits of drag-and-drop, but would remove a bit of the tedium and maybe help out newbies, too. There's also the Neverwinter Nights approach where you can both drag items and right click on them to get a menu, which includes dropping, using, and equipping.* I just made that up, but I wouldn't be surprised. [smile]   ;Quote:Original post by EzbezI think that you're glossing over some of the benefits of drag-and-drop inventories. For example, a potion you can drag onto your character to drink, into your quick-access belt, or onto the floor to drop it. Actually, anything can be dropped on the ground or equipped.A few arrow buttons can work for the interface. Then there's a left click, right click, shift + click, and control + click to choose from for the shortcuts.Quote:In games such as Neverwinter Nights, you can drag items into the hotkeys at the bottom of the screen for easy use.I still haven't come up with any ideas to avoid it in this type of situation. I was considering using something where you click on the hotkey slot, then a pop-up allows you to select from all compatible items for that slot.Quote:In many games, you have limited inventory space, requiring you to drag and drop items around to fit them into your inventory nicely.Yeah, but I really dislike that system too. I've never had that much trouble cramming things into a real-life backpack. It just seems like another distraction from the real game. Especially if you're trying to load stuff up in a hurry.   ;  I think that the main problem with variations of LMB, RMB with ctrl, alt, etc. is that it's not intuitive to beginners. You'd be forced to look that up in the manual or go through the tutorial to find out simply how to drop an item. Drag and drop inventories are both the standard and intuitive. If you've played an RPG before, chances are you know how to use a drag-and-drop inventory. And even if you don't, it's what you expect to happen. In real life you actually drag and drop things to put them onto the ground, into bags, or onto yourself (okay, maybe not, but it's certainly closer than shift right clicking on them [wink]).I think that you're best bet will be a hybrid system. You *can* drag and drop to do any of the above, but if you, say, double click on an item, it will be equipped to the right spot. You can certainly combine the system that you don't like with the system that you do like without them interfering much at all.   ;Quote:Original post by EzbezI think that the main problem with variations of LMB, RMB with ctrl, alt, etc. is that it's not intuitive to beginners. You'd be forced to look that up in the manual or go through the tutorial to find out simply how to drop an item.Or you could just hover your mouse over the interface buttons to see the shortcuts for them.Quote:Drag and drop inventories are both the standard and intuitive. If you've played an RPG before, chances are you know how to use a drag-and-drop inventory. And even if you don't, it's what you expect to happen.I won't argue with any of that. But as a player, I still hate the system. It's tiresome. It can become pretty annoying once I get into playing a game. I've yet to play a game, even great games, where this interface style didn't tear it down a notch.Quote:I think that you're best bet will be a hybrid system. You *can* drag and drop to do any of the above, but if you, say, double click on an item, it will be equipped to the right spot. You can certainly combine the system that you don't like with the system that you do like without them interfering much at all.That's fine, as long as the alternative to dragging is acceptable. But the only games I've played with decent alternatives didn't even bother using drag and drop. And just to rival Grumpy Smurf, I also really dislike double clicking. What a nuisance.   ;  Want to know the problem with just right clicking gear to get it to work? Lets take Diablo II for example. I found this nice 1 hand sword with 4324324324 damage and speed to replace my slow 2 dmg 2handed sword. I go to right click it, but guess what? My old sword drops to the ground and someone else takes it. Why? Because my short sword was 1x3 slots and the big sword was 2x4. Oh, and my inventory is full. Games remove some features that would be beneficial in order to make sure noobs and the veteran alike don't make silly mistakes and complain about it. Also, adding anything more than a drag and drop system that works well is a waste of time. Game programmers make games, not fancy and complex menu systems which keep you more occupied with it than the game itself.I'd love things to be as easy as right clicking too, but maybe you can be the one to make the next best Game AND menu system ;)   ;  I would have to agree with the idea that drag and drop is far more intuitive and quick to pick up than having to read a manual or look for tool-tips on different button/click combinations. Drag and drop allows you to learn one action that applies for wearing, removing, using, taking, and dropping items. Drag and drop is predictable and almost always works the way you expect, whereas different buttons and combinations of modifier keys may mean different things on different games. Details such as whether you require boots to be dragged to the foot position or whether they snap onto the feet when you release them over the character is just an implementation detail really.If you find yourself doing a lot of repetitive movements to equip or unequip a character, it's probably not a problem with the individual item movement as such but the failure to spot a higher level behaviour, such as wanting to have different sets of equipment to use in different situations. In that case, you could have a 'remember this outfit' button and a 'restore past outfit' drop down that swaps complete sets of equipment over in one or two clicks.   ;Quote:Original post by LmTI go to right click it, but guess what? My old sword drops to the ground and someone else takes it. Why? Because my short sword was 1x3 slots and the big sword was 2x4. Oh, and my inventory is full.Slot based inventory storage is a bad design for many other reasons as well. I'm more of a believer in inflicting penalties for carrying too much, rather than making it impossible. Stamina zapping, speed reduction, strength deterioration, or whatever. In the real world, carrying less is better, regardless of limitations, but you can always overextend yourself in a crisis. I think it would work well to apply that to gaming.Quote:Also, adding anything more than a drag and drop system that works well is a waste of time.Why is it a waste of time?Quote:Game programmers make games, not fancy and complex menu systems which keep you more occupied with it than the game itself.My goal is to make it less occupying. Slot based inventory? Dragging and dropping to specific locations? How is that less fancy and complex than a single click and alternative click?Quote:I'd love things to be as easy as right clicking too, but maybe you can be the one to make the next best Game AND menu system ;)With my extraordinary super powers that allow me to spend more than 15 minutes on it?Quote:Original post by KylotanI would have to agree with the idea that drag and drop is far more intuitive and quick to pick up than having to read a manual or look for tool-tips on different button/click combinations.I seriously doubt left clicking to equip/remove and right clicking to drop would require a serious amount of research. I mean unless you're dealing with something very complicated, you're going to find your way pretty quickly.   ;  It's not a lot more, but it's more, and unlike dragging and dropping, the conventions vary from game to game. People are far more used to moving the mouse around than they are to memorising different click and keypress combinations. And you're going to have a hard time finding a lot of people other than yourself who care enough about the tiny efficiency difference you'll get once you've mastered the more complex interface.   ;Quote:Original post by KylotanPeople are far more used to moving the mouse around than they are to memorising different click and keypress combinations.Unless you're doing something overly complicated, you can just use two types of clicks. Left click, right click. That doesn't require much memory. Anyone who can't pick that up in about 5-10 seconds won't be able to play my game anyway.Quote:And you're going to have a hard time finding a lot of people other than yourself who care enough about the tiny efficiency difference you'll get once you've mastered the more complex interface.You've taken exaggeration to a whole new level. You're telling me you would rather drag your mouse over half of the screen to move an item, rather than just click it once? Because it's too complex and too difficult to master?As far as I'm concerned, dragging and dropping is like an interface control. No different than a button on the screen. But in most cases, pressing a button on the screen is easier than dragging an item. Even so, most interface buttons have shortcut keys. So should dragging and dropping.   