   Pirate Bay founders found guilty
Pirate Bay founders found guiltySo rather surprisingly the pirate bay founders were convicted of breaking copyright law.  There's just no way that they were guilty, I can't help but think that this was either corporations pressuring the Sweedish government, or a jury who were technically ignorant to the point of not understanding how torrenting works, and more importantly why this absolves the pirate bay of legal  accountability.File sharing will continue regardless I'm sure, possibly even still through bit torrent.  I mean, Napster got shut down but Limewir, Kazaa and all the other p2p apps kept going strong.  In that news post I was somewhat confused by the quote from the IPFI guy..Quote:...These guys weren't making a principled stand, they were out to line their own pockets.Did the  pirate bay really generate that much revenue?  I'm sure the adverts would make some money, but I didn't think they would be living the high life as a result.Also felt that his point that..Quote:There has been a perception that piracy is OK and that the music industry should just have to accept it. This verdict will change that.simply isn't true.  While this verdict may set an unfortunate legal precedent, I don't think it will change peoples views at all.  Those of you from the UK will remember the short lived and fantastically unsuccessful Knock Off Nigel* campaign which tried to make downloading movies illegally seem uncool. *This page is just a black screen for me, though I don't have flash or anything installed...   
  I always thought it was legal to host a torrent tracker in Sweden? Well, this verdict won't change much I think.   ;  I for one am extremely happy to see the guilty verdict.It still amazes me how morality has declined so much that people can say "I'm not hosting the pirated software, I just give links on where to get it" is ok.If enough people are shut down and fined or jailed, maybe people will get it through their heads that they are committing a crime.Copyright infringment is a crime.Aiding in a crime is also a crime. So, running a torrent site should be considered a crime.Let's use an example of something more people would feel strongly about.If someone posted up a website of people's credit card numbers but doesn't use the numbers, are they comitting a crime or is it just the people who go to the site and use the numbers?The only real difference I see is perception. Using someone's credit card is hurting an individual. Downloading software, music or movies hurts organizations (a group of individuals).I'm not going to change any minds and I'm not going to try anymore. Perception of what is ok is extremely flawed and the only thing that will help is more convictions like this one.John   ;  I don't condone piracy, but this is insane. It damages the reputation of the Swedish justice system. The owners of the site didn't violate any laws or license agreements, and they were fined $4.5m plus jail time. People who ripped movies or cracked games and distributed them, or the people downloading the files are the ones doing illegal business. But I guess I'd rather have some innocent guys pay up, than having the government spy on everybody's private computers. Oh wait, they are already doing that, thanks to Bush.   ;  From the article : Quote:The four men denied the charges throughout the trial, saying that because they did not actually host any files, they were not doing anything wrong. I never understood this kind of reasoning; my view is that if you're 'hosting' (maybe not in a strict sense, but people have the chance to download it from there) something that contains illegal content, you're as well responsible for it. I'm surprised by the severity of the verdict.   ;Quote:Original post by MarminFrom the article : Quote:The four men denied the charges throughout the trial, saying that because they did not actually host any files, they were not doing anything wrong. I never understood this kind of reasoning; my view is that if you're hosting something that contains illegal content, you're as well responsible for it. I'm surprised by the severity of the verdict.The thing is though, they didn't host any files, a torrent tracker by itself is just a means of communication, The tracker isn't linked to the website (You can use their tracker for a torrent file that isn't hosted on their website if you want), I havn't read the details but I hope that its the website that got them convicted (Since they refused to remove links upon request) and not the tracker.(Linking to someone distributing copyrighted content without permission however has been considered legal in previous cases in Sweden though, which is why this is a bit surprising)Basically if they got convicted for hosting an open torrent tracker we're in deep shit right now since that would mean that hosting things like IRC servers would be illegal as well (due to DCC Transfers).The verdict itself is fairly worthless at this point though, this case will probably go through the higher instances before its over.   ;Quote:Original post by borngamerIf someone posted up a website of people's credit card numbers but doesn't use the numbers, are they comitting a crime or is it just the people who go to the site and use the numbers?Your analogy is wrong. The correct analogy would have been: Running a website with tools and information on HOWTO obtain credit card details by hacking, skimming or bruteforcing. And that's what TPB does: They provide means to obtain copyrighted material.But then again, TPB has a lot of files on it that do not infringe copyright.I do feel kinda amazed that these men were actually believing they weren't going to jail for this. While I'm not going to judge, what they are doing is quite borderline. Toolmaker   ;  AFAIK the Pirate Bay guys weren't found guilty of breaking copyright law; they were found guilty of abetting the breaking of copyright law (i.e. they were accessories). The arguments about whether or not they were breaking copyright have raged for years, but on the latter - abetting copyright infringement - there were IMO guilty as all heck. If you've named your site "The Pirate Bay", and are deliberately ignoring take down requests (while from what I've read acting quite churlish about it), then this is the sort of result I'd expect.   ;Quote:Original post by borngamerIt still amazes me how morality has declined so much that people can say "I'm not hosting the pirated software, I just give links on where to get it" is ok.But so does this little website. Should they be held responsible too?   ;Quote:Original post by ToolmakerQuote:Original post by borngamerIf someone posted up a website of people's credit card numbers but doesn't use the numbers, are they comitting a crime or is it just the people who go to the site and use the numbers?Your analogy is wrong. The correct analogy would have been: Running a website with tools and information on HOWTO obtain credit card details by hacking, skimming or bruteforcing. And that's what TPB does: They provide means to obtain copyrighted material.But then again, TPB has a lot of files on it that do not infringe copyright.I do feel kinda amazed that these men were actually believing they weren't going to jail for this. While I'm not going to judge, what they are doing is quite borderline. ToolmakerI'm not going to argue on the details. Linking to pirated content is just as bad as hosting it in my opinion. The bottom line is these guys were profiting from pirated software/music/movies and should be convicted.John