   Libertarians NOT in the United States
  First I will go ahead and tell what a libertarian is:Basically someone who wants government to butt out of people lives, economically and otherwise.  In other words, cut taxes, cut regulations, privatize, legalize drugs, weaken gun laws don''t fight other people''s wars, etc.While there is a Libertarian political party in the US, it isn''t very big, third place way behind Democrats and Republicans (left and right wing, respectively), several members of both main parties hold similar values.  What I am wondering is whether a significant number of people in other countries are libertarian.Generally, the view of Europe in the US is of a bunch of decaying socialist countries (not any better than Europe''s view of the United States), so I can''t see that there are many libertarians elsewhere but in the US. 
quote:Original post by PlayGGY  While there is a Libertarian political party in the US, it isn''t very big, third place way behind Democrats and Republicans (left and right wing, respectively), several members of both main parties hold similar values.  What I am wondering is whether a significant number of people in other countries are libertarian. Not even third. In the 2000 us presidential election the Green party(left wing) got almost three and a half times the number of votes as the reform and libertarian parties combined. ;quote:Original post by gph-gw   quote:Original post by PlayGGY    While there is a Libertarian political party in the US, it isn't very big, third place way behind Democrats and Republicans (left and right wing, respectively), several members of both main parties hold similar values.  What I am wondering is whether a significant number of people in other countries are libertarian. Not even third. In the 2000 us presidential election the Green party(left wing) got almost three and a half times the number of votes as the reform and libertarian parties combined.   I think he is talking about how many members the party has.  People who are not members of the Green Party could have still voted for them remember. [edited by - TravelingCoder on February 7, 2004 9:00:39 PM];quote:Original post by PlayGGY  First I will go ahead and tell what a libertarian is:Basically someone who wants government to butt out of people lives, economically and otherwise.  In other words, cut taxes, cut regulations, privatize, legalize drugs, weaken gun laws don''t fight other people''s wars, etc.Some of the Libertarian ideals sound good by themselves, but my overall view of Libertarians is that they''re whacky and I''m glad they don''t have much support.Some of their social ideas are great and very liberal and forward-thinking, but I don''t agree with their economic policies. I''m not in support of unregulated markets though I do like to take jabs at people who are so miffed that other countries are taking their jobs.quote:What I am wondering is whether a significant number of people in other countries are libertarian.Probably not. Why would a sensible person give up their government protections and comfy life to a bunch of greedy radicals whose primary concern is accumulating and praising selfish wealth?I haven''t yet seen the Libertarian party and their members say anything to change my mind about them. Greater personal liberty is, philosophically, a wonderful idea and something I greatly support, but I think this will be achieved by co-operating with other countries more, breaking down national barriers and nationalism (in the very, very long run), and working with a more altruistic mentality; not by becoming an isolationist nation. ----Bart ;  By third biggest I meant by members and by number of elected/appointed officials, not by presidential votes. ;  In the 70s some hippies, in the 80s some punks or anarchists, there are the travellers today. But I guess they smell too leftist for a full analogy. Still a total anarchist if it ever existed is one kind of libertarian but US libertarians today look far more right biased and ultra individualist. Anyway there is not quite enough wilderness in Europe to imagine a restauration of the Wild West there. There is no European rocky State acceptable for a libertarian subversion in the old west. Hmm probably because Davy Crockett would not make a good picture with Cathedrals or Castles in the background.I think the problem is that libertarism is more a new creation, a set of heterogenous reactions and rejections melt under one banner. But that''s not well defined and far too close to an utopy to survive long under its current form. It can hardly be exported elsewhere. It''s just another emanation of the vague concepts of anarchism and asocialism tainted with economical laissez faire.But once again who pays for the roads ? K I am simplistic but since there is no state everyone will try to make his own solution win by any means. Then one will take his legal rocket launcher ... and Orbb wins. Personnally I prefer virtual Quake3 to satisfy my libertarian temptations. ;quote:But once again who pays for the roads ? K I am simplistic but since there is no state everyone will try to make his own solution win by any means. An even more serious issue is: Who will pay for public education? At least some Libertarians want to completely privatize all education -- is that the official party stance? ----Bart   [edited by - trzy on February 7, 2004 10:33:52 PM];  Germany´s libertian party has about 7.8% of the seats in the german parliament. Like in the US they are a small party compared to the two major ones. The smaller parties still are important since usually none of the bigger parties will have the needed 50% of seats to form the goverment by themselves so they have to form a coalition with usually one of the smaller ones. Actually I think (can´t prove that with numbers, just heard it sometimes) that the liberals are the party most included in goverments in the (relatively short) history of the federal republic of germany.quote:Generally, the view of Europe in the US is of a bunch of decaying socialist countries (not any better than Europe's view of the United States), (...).oh, that´s way better than most europeans view of the US  [edited by - Atheist on February 7, 2004 10:44:04 PM];quote:Original post by trzyquote:But once again who pays for the roads ? K I am simplistic but since there is no state everyone will try to make his own solution win by any means. An even more serious issue is: Who will pay for public education? At least some Libertarians want to completely privatize all education -- is that the official party stance? ----Bart   [edited by - trzy on February 7, 2004 10:33:52 PM]This is what the Libertarians say:quote:From http://www.lp.org/issues/program/edu.html  EducationPublic schools are supposed to provide a good education for our children. More often than not, they don't. Each year public schools graduate more and more students who are unable to read, write, or do basic arithmetic. Our children's talents are wasted because we continue to trust politicians to do this important job. Politicians have had decades to fix these problems, and they haven't been able to do so.In recent years, government involvement in education has grown rapidly. At the same time, the quality of the education offered to most public school students has gone down. We are finding, as with so many other government efforts, that throwing more money or more regulations at this problem does not fix it. The best way to end the crisis in education is to deal with the main cause -- government involvement.The politicians who run the public schools have created new regulations and mandated new programs. These are imposed on local schools. We have more bureaucracy and less innovation. We have more red tape and less creativity. More resources are spent on these matters. The cost of education goes up. The quality of education goes down.Many public schools have become dangerous places for our children. The news is filled with reports of drug use, rapes, assaults, and murders in our schools. It's difficult to expect a child to learn in a place where the child does not feel safe. Yet most families have no choice but to send their children to the local public school, no matter how dangerous.It's no surprise that poor children suffer the most under the current system. Wealthy parents can afford to send their children to better or safer schools. Poor parents have no choice. Their children generally end up in the schools with the worst problems. These children end up at a public school, which is obligated to accept every local student, even those who are not interested in learning or who have a reputation for being disruptive or dangerous. The current system traps poor children in poor schools. This is just one reason that many parents have given up hope that their children will escape the poverty they have known.To solve a crisis, you must recognize and eliminate its cause. The crisis in education is no different. The most important step is to end government control of education. We must move toward a system where parents have good, safe, affordable choices for educating their children.To transfer control of education from bureaucrats to parents and teachers and encourage alternatives to the public school monopoly, the Libertarian Party would:Support a true market in education -- one in which parents and students would not be stuck with a bad local school, because they could choose another.Implement measures such as tax credits so that parents will have the financial ability to choose among schools.Provide financial incentives for businesses to help fund schools and for individuals to support students other than their own children.Eliminate the U.S. Department of Education, which spends billions on education and educates no one. The growth of this agency and its numerous regulations is a major reason for runaway costs in American schools.Edit: I generally agree with the faults that they find with schools, but I'm not so sure that their solution is the best one.  "Tell me who's the real patriots The Archie Bunker slobs waving flags Or the people with the guts to work For some real change?" -- Dead Kennedys[edited by - Mscgamer on February 7, 2004 10:39:48 PM];  I recall hearing something about a large South American libertarian party growing because they''re so poor that pretty much the only way for upward mobility is owning your own business, which means everyone wants that to be as fruitful and easy as possible.  The social side of this is appealing because most of them have lived under dictatorships at one point or another, and so trusting government is simply out of the question.  Not to mention that most of the government is very corrupt. 