   Are "Epic" RTS Games Inherently Bland?
  I've been reading about Supreme Commander recently, and one of the most frequent criticisms of it is that it's too bland.  Among the three factions, the units apparently do not look distinct enough; nor do units in a given "class" look distinct enough within a faction.  There also seems to be a lack of special abilities among the different units.My question to you, dear GameDev reader, is this: is the alleged blandness of Supreme Commander an inherent problem of such "epic" RTS games?  When playing from such a high vantage point, will uniqueness among units tend to get lost in the noise?  Or is it primarily a graphical/presentation issue with Supreme Commander itself?  Or is Supreme Commander really not as bland as the critics say it is?For anyone who wants to tell me to play the game and decide for myself -- I would, but it would break my computer.  Two words: integrated graphics. :(Anyways, I'm looking forward to some good feedback!   
  Definitely not. Differentiate the factions by more than just appearance.  Think outside the box.  Make them play completely differently.  Hell give them different goals.Imagine if one SC faction lived entirely underground and dug to the surface to attack, and another were religious fanatics that cannot kill except in self-defense and instead is seeking to convert everyone.  Probably less "they're all the same" reviews.;  Supreme commander is not as bland as the critics say it is. The problem is that the differentiations are subtle. While the different factions have mostly the same units, the units themselves have differing strengths and weaknesses. Using the same tactics with two factions will yield drastically different results.Sure, the changes are more subtle than Starcraft style mechanics changes, but in the end they tend to have a greater tactical impact. Something that might not be seen by someone just trying the game out for a review.Personally, I never had a problem distinguishing units visually.   ;  I spent most of my time in supreme commander watching different coloured rectangles and hexes wandering around, so I guess you're right about each unit not being too distinct. When RTS games get epic, then individual units cease to mean much and the resultant blob just sort of becomes control group 1. I wouldn't say they're bland though. It depends on your own personal likes and dislikes.   ;  I think it's inevitable in some sense, because the larger the battle gets, the less impact individual units will have.  I haven't played Supreme Commander though, except a little bit of the demo that I gave up on.  I prefer small scale battles on the level of squads and individual units because even the smallest unit can make a significant difference, but that's just me.   ;Quote:Original post by MossStoneI spent most of my time in supreme commander watching different coloured rectangles and hexes wandering around, so I guess you're right about each unit not being too distinct. When RTS games get epic, then individual units cease to mean much and the resultant blob just sort of becomes control group 1. I wouldn't say they're bland though. It depends on your own personal likes and dislikes.That's something else I've read in the reviews -- that most of the time is spent zoomed all the way out.  At that level, you can't see any of the pretty graphics, and all of the units are abstracted to colored shapes.  I can see how this alone could lead to accusations of blandness.How much does this take away from the immersion factor, and thus from the fun?  Does it take a certain kind of person to enjoy this greater abstraction?  Are casual gamers necessarily turned off by this?   ;Quote:Original post by RobAU78How much does this take away from the immersion factor, and thus from the fun?  Immersion is fun? I've always found the concept creepy. Fleeing from reality to pretend to be someone else...  Quote:Does it take a certain kind of person to enjoy this greater abstraction?Maybe. I find the abstraction to be good. It's just a UI, the ui is more effective with unambiguous symbols. That it is like modern military tactical overviews is nice as well.Quote:  Are casual gamers necessarily turned off by this?Maybe, but I perhaps would argue that casual gamers wouldn't play an epic RTS for more immediate reasons (game length, learning curve, having to find a game, etc).;  Supreme Commander is probably my favourite RTS at the moment. That said, I have found it quite difficult to convince friends of its awesomeness, largely due to the criticisms you've mentioned.Personally, I find those criticisms to be unimportant - they're all completely cosmetic and have no negative impact on the gameplay. Half the time I'll not even notice that I've played 90% of a game completely zoomed out. And in any case, how often do you have time to sit and admire eye candy in an RTS anyway, unless you're watching a replay? In my opinion, it would be a poor design decision to remove strategic zoom just so you can 'force' people to see the pretty graphics.I'd say the more significant issue with Supreme Commander is the unforgiving resource system which has a fairly steep learning curve.   ;  Supreme Commander is probably the best RTS I've played.The interface, imho, makes other RTS games seems lacking.  The "hold shift" view lets you change order, move patrols, and see what is helping what and where.  This means I never have to re-issue an order just to fix a destination, and I can't forget who is going where.Strategic zoom is what makes the game for me. It is fluid, intuitive, and far better than just a minimap.  In fact, I can't enjoy most RTS games now because they don't have strategic zoom. There is a lot to be said for putting the camera in a position so i can see all my units in an engagement area instead of scrolling the map around looking a a subset of the battle.Also, their transport system is awsome. I love not having to manually place every unit in a dropship, the transports just ferry units happly on their own.But the game isn't bland. Maybe for people who want in-your-face effects. But some of the best RTS and TBS games out there are also "bland". Hell, chess is "bland" unless you have battlechess2000 or something, but the game isn't.  And honestly? I prefer a game where you don't play by "every unit counts" and "micro is god".  Warcraft3 suffers from that because of all the extra things the units can do. Its nice to just have an AA tank. You know what it does, you know where to put it.  You don't have to manage casting slow, dispell, tornado, chainlightining, etc.   ;  RTS games do seem to be going down two main paths; the small scale 'skirmish' style games where individual units and squads matter (often levelling them for keeping them alive) and the larger scale such as SC where battles are 'epic' and individual units don't matter as such.I can see why the latter can be described as 'bland', because you're not personally attached to any unit, often seeing units as little more than pieces on a board. As such, the different abilities of individual units do get missed, often with huge squads becoming a blend of different unit types throwing fire at a similar blend of enemy units. The game often tends to be slower, with a long build time in which it can take an age to raise up your army. I also find that in epic games like this, you don't get penalised as hard for your mistakes, potentially because there's more units to mop up the fire - maybe it's the way I play, but often battles become a case of throwing a few hundred (or thousand) units at the enemy, fighting a huge battle and then frantically trying to raise another army when the first battle leaves both sides in ruin. Smaller scale games seem to focus around many more, smaller combats that lead to pushing the pace forward - perhaps because you have fewer units and need to micromanage them more.For the large scale RTS games, I love the huge battles between hundreds of units - but when in progress it's pretty much a case of sitting there and letting the dice roll, hoping you come out better on the other side than the enemy. The smaller games force you to take more control and make more individual decisions.Really, it's a matter of taste. I enjoy both types.   