   Howto combine all elements for a Zelda kinda-like game?
  Hi there,Although I do have some creative skills, I'm more a programmer. So I was hoping to get some tips about designing a game. And especially in which order to do things. Sorry if the question is a little bit vague, but I guess you boys&girls have experience with 'thinking outside the box' and vague stuff :)Now that my engine is finally getting somewhere, it's time to create something more than just test-maps. I have ideas, a story, a game 'theme' and quite alot scenes/monsters/locations in my head. But it's hard to combine all these elements into a consistent 'whole'. I guess you can't just throw together all good ideas.For example, how would you make a new Zelda game? I would think of a story first, then sum the elements I absolutely want in the game and spread them out over a map. Together with some concept drawings of the more important locations, I start drawing a more detailed map. Then someone with true mapping/architectural skills could work out the individual locations.But I wonder if that's really the way to go. In Zelda or Metroid games a map is not just a (big) map. Each passage, house, grotto, bridge, field, ... is considered very carefully. In GTA games you can go whereever you want, but in these adventure games you have to collect stuff, find secret passages or unlock things in order to be able to explore a new area. They could simply lock each region with a pile of rocks or a locked door, but that wouldn't be fun of course.Especially the Zelda games ussually also have a certain theme that is used all over the world. Sailboats & water for the Wind Waker, Timing/Scheduling in Majora's Mask (my favourite), or a 'dark-world' variant in the snes Zelda game. When they had to design the map for "A Link to the past" (snes), they actually had to design 2 maps at the same time as they overlap each other. They did a brilliant job, but again, how would you achieve this?To make it even more difficult, games nowadays must also have a certain athmosphere. Beautifull or horrific locations. When the map finally has a certain 'game-flow', it also has to be pretty on top. In my case I'm aiming for a horror game, so the world should be scary/claustrofobic/surreal/dark/lonely/.../. But combining all these elements... pffff. Please enlighten my path!Greetings,Rick   
  The Zelda/Metroid/Blaster Master system of "locking" areas was very good, I thought.  Just have the "theme" of a given region involve some kind of locomotion or access method that can only be performed once you've got a skill or item from a different region.  Once you have the hookshot or the magma-resistant suit, you can zip right through areas that might previously have been totally inaccessible.Often, a "hub" area can provide reduced travel time by connecting to many areas which can be "unlocked" as your character advances.  In Blaster Master, one of the last levels has its entrance a few hundred feet directly above the original starting point for the game.  You have to get the car upgrade that lets you get up to it, but once you have it, you never have to trudge through the first six levels to get to that seventh one, you just turn around and take that previously impassable road.If you want that kind of linearity, it's a simple task to map out the obstacles with the "end game" map in mind.  Abstractly, just think of it as being different rooms off the same hallway.  You go into the red room, finish that task, and receive the blue key as your reward, which can unlock the blue room, and might also help you get to some spots in areas you've already been through.  By the end, you're equipped with a whole rainbow of keys, have had time to learn how they each work, and are all set to finish the game.   ;  Problem with my game is that its somewhat more realistic, so superjumps, hookshots or teleports are off. Not because I want the game itself to be realistic, but because the player should stay weak compared to its enemies. A horror game isn't really scary anymore if you are equiped with hyperblasters and morph balls. Keys and passcodes can do the trick, although it might get boring to collect keys all the time... They will certainly be there, including a few special required items. But not in big numbers.I was more looking into hidden passages and howto design the game-world. Not the tiny details, but a global map and a document that describes how the game proceeds step by step, like a walkthrough. However, while typing and drawing that map, I asked myself if it would be smart to do it that way. I know which "chapters"/"regions" I want to put in the game, but the map and game-flow are still undefined. I mean, at this point I don't know yet what will happen 20% later in the game. I just started at some point and wrote down some cool events and sketched the map. But in these type of games each descission/event has effect on the entire game that follows. For example, if I would introduce a certain item (let's say the hookshot) right now, it affects everything that will follow. And therefore the map gets adjusted on that item/ability/event. But maybe at 50% of the game I wouldn't be happy with that particular descission (game gets too easy, hookshot should have been unlocked later in the game for example), and I can start again. Also with the map, which is already made with that item in mind.I hope you guys can follow me a little bit, it's hard to explain :) Basically I just wonder how a game that consists of so many different elements gets constructed. With elements I mean:- Story (must match with what you're about to play)- Overall theme (horror, magic, fighting, teddy bears, racing, ...)- Game sections/chapters and sub-themes (jungle, ice, forest, city, ...)- Items to collect and use to proceed / sub-targets- The (top-view) map (globally and into detail)- Gameplay (maps are fun to explore, or scary, or good for shoot-outs, platform jumping, ...)- The enemy (or at least some sort of challenge in the game)- The (3D) locations / architecture (the results)You could put 8 different people on these 8 tasks. But at some point things need to get fused. Keeping all of this in harmony is one hell of a job though, I suppose.Thanks for the tips!Rick   ;  I would outline the whole story first, makes some notes on game-wide unique mechanics, but then for the first detailed level design I would do the noob level - pretty much every game like this has a training level which is basically self-contained, teaches the fundamental gameplay mechanics, and storywise it delivers the initial incident that launches the ordinary MC onto his epic journey.  If you can get the noob level designed the experience will help you design the more complicated later levels, and if you get the noob level programmed it serves as a demo for anyone you want to show the project to.   ;  For a Zelda or Metroid type game you should start with nailing down what your game mechanics are going to be.Be that keypads, jumppads, stronger weapons or whatever.From there you can begin designing set pieces what would compliment the mechanics you have.Experiment, Prototype, Iterate.Once you are happy with that, THEN come up with a world and story to compliment your gameplay.   ;  The "noob" level is a good idea. I think its wise to build a 'demo' stage first anyway. Not only to check the gameplay, but also to test the tools, engine and warm-up all the people who are involved (that's only me for now unfortunately :) ).That also means I should shift the story and game contents a little bit forward. It would be a waste to put lots of energy into complete storylines and maps while its not even tested. Sounds logical, but its so much fun to get your fantasy running! And there should be at least some idea/concept whenever I try to attract people to this project. For now I just 'finish' the engine and editors. After that, I could start begging for mappers/artists. But I guess they like to know what the game is about, before they sign up. Well, maybe I can make that demo stage myself to start with.But then, once the gameplay is proven, are there any special tricks or 'design methods' that mappers/game writers use for these type of games? Or they just start drawing a map from a certain starting point without knowing what exactly will follow, just like I'm doing right now?Thanks for all the tips,Rick   