   The Ahmadinejad Fraud
  Iran held it's presidential elections Friday. Robert Dreyfuss of The Nation has provided some of the best first person coverage of the events on the web through his blog The Dreyfuss Report. Ahmadinejad supposedly won with 62% of the vote in a landslide that nobody expected and large street protests have broken out in Tehran. Juan Cole lays out the evidence for fraud here: Stealing the Iranian Election. Various news agencies have reported that leaders of the losing faction, including the second place finisher, have been arrested. In a press conference today Ahmadinejad said they were given traffic tickets for losing their cool after a soccer match, or something to that effect. So far President Obama hasn't responded to the allegations. What do you think President Obama should say about the elections in Iran? What do you think would happen if the United States or Israel took advantage of the disarray in Tehran to bomb Iran's nuclear power facilities? What do you think it would take for the people there to rise up and overthrow the regime?   
Quote:Original post by LessBreadSo far President Obama hasn't responded to the allegations. What do you think President Obama should say about the elections in Iran? He should be smart and emith no oppinion of his own.Quote:Original post by LessBreadWhat do you think would happen if the United States or Israel took advantage of the disarray in Tehran to bomb Iran's nuclear power development program? I don't think that would happen without a negotiation with Russia first. If that happened, then we would be facing WWIII.Quote:Original post by LessBreadWhat do you think it would take for the people their to rise up and overthrow the regime?They would need guns, lots of guns.   ;  This thread is going to go to hell in a big way when Dredd shows up (not to mention the misc zero rated posters who love these threads). Don't be too surprised if I decide to put it out of its misery early.[Edited by - Promit on June 14, 2009 8:03:47 PM];Quote:Original post by LessBreadSo far President Obama hasn't responded to the allegations. What do you think President Obama should say about the elections in Iran? Probably best that he not to jump on this too quickly in case more facts surface.Quote:Original post by LessBreadWhat do you think would happen if the United States or Israel took advantage of the disarray in Tehran to bomb Iran's nuclear power facilities? It would probably just turn Iranians against the reformists, better to wait for Ahmadinejad to do something provocative on the world stage and claim it as a retaliatory strike.Quote:Original post by LessBreadWhat do you think it would take for the people there to rise up and overthrow the regime?Not sure, first theirs the revolutionary guard and Ahmadinejad probably does have at least 30% - 45% support.;  I think our generation (I'm 30) should stop being a pussy and defend the planet we inherited from the previous fighting and hard-working generations.People died in WW2 to prevent exactly what I see gaining ground all around the world. Bomb the fuckers, nuke'em, even if it means our blood will be spilled too. I'm ready to die for democracy, for a free world, for a better tomorrow, for the end of communism and of cloaked fascism.We have grown too attached to the niceties of our lives, Playstations, Hummers and Coffee-Lates...There is something brewing in the near horizon of our collective lives, and from where I stand, that smell can't be a good omen...   ;Quote:Original post by ProzakI think our generation (I'm 30) should stop being a pussy and defend the planet we inherited from the previous fighting and hard-working generations.People died in WW2 to prevent exactly what I see gaining ground all around the world. Bomb the fuckers, nuke'em, even if it means our blood will be spilled too. The US didn't get involved with WWII only after Hitler had taken over most of Europe. Who knows what would have happened if Japan didn't bomb Pearl Harbor. It was only then we got into it. We weren't doing anything to "prevent" it from happening.Until North Korea actually does something, we'd just look like the evil empire trying to take over the world.;  I think this is a fascinating situation and could prove to be a significant turning point in Iran's democracy. I think regardless of what the outcome, there will be a definite sense that the theocracy there is not as powerful as previously though.Something interesting to monitor in the short term is whether or not the Ayatollah Rafsanjani (who dislikes Ahmadinejad and has previous issued a fatwa against elections fraud) will try to call vote Khamenei out of power. If he does, the reformists could actually take power in Iran.Finally, I think Andrew Sullivan's blog has had great coverage of the situation if anyone's interested in learning some more.   ;Quote:Original post by ProzakI think our generation (I'm 30) should stop being a pussy and defend the planet we inherited from the previous fighting and hard-working generations.People died in WW2 to prevent exactly what I see gaining ground all around the world. Bomb the fuckers, nuke'em, even if it means our blood will be spilled too. I'm ready to die for democracy, for a free world, for a better tomorrow, for the end of communism and of cloaked fascism.We have grown too attached to the niceties of our lives, Playstations, Hummers and Coffee-Lates...There is something brewing in the near horizon of our collective lives, and from where I stand, that smell can't be a good omen...My thoughts exactly.Too many Americans are naive to the very real evils that are present in the world. We've become a bunch of intellectual pussies. I really wish some real action (militarily or otherwise) would take place in the middle east and North Korea before the world is in a fuck ton of trouble, wondering why we didn't do anything earlier.   ;  Shame on me for starting the flame  war, but I have to put in my two cents on this (something I rarely do anymore..).I think we have no bounds to go into another country like that. If the last 8 years are any indication of what that does to the world climate, continually entering into countries as an unwanted police force do not paint a very happy picture for the future.There is too much bureaucracy regarding war, as well there should be.  It was the efforts of the leaders of the world after WWII to prevent this kind of bloodshed, and make it as difficult as possible. I don't think its a war we can win. Maintain, possibly. But win? Isolating ourselves from internal national conflicts in non-ally states will not cause 'the terr'ists' to leave us alone. Ideologically, they are opposed to our way of life and always will be. However, muddling our fingers in other nations' business will do nothing but agitate the problem. Simply put, its not our culture, its not our right, and as a nation, it's simply not our business.I would almost welcome a return to the cold-war American foreign policy, with some reservations. Why did we put the sheriff's badge on our own chest, when for so long we carried on a support role? Is it because the Soviet Union isn't around anymore? Are we now not afraid of retribution for our actions?I realize it is cliche, but think about the world if we did deliver more rice and medical care, than we did bombs and bullets. I believe the U.N. needs serious reform, but what if it all worked? And why can't it? Why is it easier to fly somewhere and shoot someone than it is to change organizational policy?I don't pretend to present answers to any of the questions I ask, but the future looks too grim to live without asking them..   ;  Bush v. Gore 2000?   