   Can we please be more careful with our heirlooms! (RPG rant)
  I'm a long-time RPG fan and have been playing a few lately and.. this drives me crazy!Why why why don't people watch their important/valuable/whatever heirlooms better? Every RPG is crammed full of quests from friends and strangers alike to recover a lost or stolen heirloom (which is usually also useless to everyone but the owner). Seriously, its such a cliched quest topic that I find it irritating. How often have you been approached by strangers in real life begging you to recover a sword/hat/shoe/ring/necklace/... that they misplaced/was stolen/dropped into a sewer/...? Could it maybe be.. never? Are designers really that low on quest ideas that they have no choice but to use the "top ten cliche quest plots" list over and over?   
  They're just MacGuffins - doohickies that aren't important in and of themselves, but serve to drive the plot/quest. They're the same as the classic video game MacGuffin of the princess that you need to rescue. Really the whole point is to get you to spelunk into the sewer, so there's some unique trinket put there you need to recover.   ;  Re:I know it is just a rant, but it reminds me of an exercise to get out of cliche zone. The concept is that you keep asking question until you find an interesting answer.Question:Why don't people watch their important/valuable/whatever heirlooms better?Answers:1) Because they didn't know that they were the owner of the treasure2) Because they didn't think that someone would take it3) Because they don't have the resource to protect it4) Because they thought it was already destroyed5) Because they willingly abandoned it Question 1:Why don't people know that they were the owner of the treasureAnswers:1.1) Because they did not know their own family history1.2) Because the treasure belonged to another relative1.3) Because they didn't know that the treasure can have an ownerQuestion 2:Why don't people think that someone would take their treasureAnswers:2.1) The treasure has no value other than it sentimental value where it was found2.2) They didn't know that the treasure is part of something valuable2.3) Because they didn't know that anyone else knew the existence of the treasureQuestion 3: Why don't people have the resource to protect their treasures?Answers:3.1) Because they were children when the treasure was taken 3.2) Because they were too poor to do so3.3) Because they were dead when the treasure was taken3.4) Because the treasure didn't exist when it was stolenQuestion 4: Why did people think that their treasure is already destroyed?Answers:4.1) Because there was a disaster where the treasure was4.2) Because the treasure would naturally expire4.3) Because they destroyed it themselvesQuestion 5:Why did people willingly abandon their treasures?Answers:5.1) Because they wanted to hide their family history5.2) Because they found the treasures shameful to possess5.3) Because the treasure was harmful to them in some way5.4) Because they did not know the value of the treasure5.5) Because it was part of a ceremonyQuestion 1.1:Why didn't people know their own family history?Answers:1.1.1) Because parents and grandparents are boring1.1.2) Because they didn't know that they were adopted1.1.3) Because there is no written family history1.1.4) Because their parents are too busy to tell them1.1.5) Because they didn't care1.1.6) Because they were not the candidate within the family to know the historyAnd so on...   ;Quote:Original post by Trapper ZoidThey're just MacGuffins - doohickies that aren't important in and of themselves, but serve to drive the plot/quest.Aw. That's what I was gonna say.;  I feel it would be better if the NPCs would just mention, almost in passing, that they lost their MacGuffin.  Sure, you've never be asked to climb into a sewer to grab an heirloom, but have you ever heard someone talk about losing something or having something stolen?  I have.  That's the suspension of disbelief killer right there.  Unless your t-shirt says "Hero with nothing better to do" on it, no one should beg you outright.I'm fairly certain I've played at least one game where this was actually done right, but I can't remember which ones.  If I recall, after the NPC dropped the hint during conversation, you got to choose between saying something like "Oh, that's too bad" and "Never fear, citizen!  I'll restore your priceless MacGuffin to its rightful place!".   ;Quote:Original post by KoobsI feel it would be better if the NPCs would just mention, almost in passing, that they lost their MacGuffin.  Sure, you've never be asked to climb into a sewer to grab an heirloom, but have you ever heard someone talk about losing something or having something stolen?  I have.  That's the suspension of disbelief killer right there.  Unless your t-shirt says "Hero with nothing better to do" on it, no one should beg you outright.It depends on why the quest is in the game in the first place. If it's just a sidequest that the player is free to ignore, then it's fine to just mention it in passing. But if there's a strong need to get the player into that sewer, it makes more sense to me to make the request more direct.;Quote:Original post by Trapper ZoidQuote:Original post by KoobsI feel it would be better if the NPCs would just mention, almost in passing, that they lost their MacGuffin.  Sure, you've never be asked to climb into a sewer to grab an heirloom, but have you ever heard someone talk about losing something or having something stolen?  I have.  That's the suspension of disbelief killer right there.  Unless your t-shirt says "Hero with nothing better to do" on it, no one should beg you outright.It depends on why the quest is in the game in the first place. If it's just a sidequest that the player is free to ignore, then it's fine to just mention it in passing. But if there's a strong need to get the player into that sewer, it makes more sense to me to make the request more direct.Good point.  In the case where the player needs to go into that sewer, though, I agree with the OP that heirloom gofer quests are cliche and unrealistic.  There are other ways to phrase the exact same quest mechanic that are more direct and still somewhat realistic.For example, the player might happen to be present just after a kidnapping and be begged by a frantic mother to chase the guy into the sewer.  Much more direct, much more urgent, and still somewhat believable.  Time is of the essence and the NPC is legitimately desperate.  They didn't ask you because they saw your hero aura, they asked you because you were close.  Never happened to me personally, but I can imagine it happening, and I probably wouldn't accuse the person asking of being a complete nutter like I might if they asked me to risk life and limb to retrieve Great Aunt Mildred's Necklace.   ;  Fetch quests make good sense.   After all if you're some sappy bastard that always manages to do every stupid task requested of you, you're going to get lots of requests asking for such.I imagine in such a world that after the hero leaves saying where they're going to go, everyone is rushing off to scry their family and friends saying.  Dude this poor sappy bastard who calls themselves a hero is heading your way.Perhaps another such world where the government decided to rather than let villains/heroes create problems, the government does it for them and subsidizes it to have "not as much trouble".  After all what's more dangerous than self professed and skilled heroes and villains with nothing to do.   ;  I don't agree with the idea that it's ok to make the fetch quest ridiculous just because it's important. Much of the original Thief game was based around 'fetch quests' but not only is the execution quite masterful (since the actual act of fetching the item is what the whole gameplay is geared towards) but it all makes sense in the context of the fiction. If you're going to drive the storyline, drive it with another part of the storyline.   ;  The reason Theif was better at delivering the fetch quests was because it was more restricted in the role the player had to take (they were a Thief and thieves tend to go into places and take things).In your typical cRPG, the player might be a theif, a warrior, or an arcane scolar (or whatever). So designing a plot hook for each of these for every quest is a lot of work.Also, in most cRPGs players tend to have more varied motivations and/or back story for their characters, and in games like Thief, these are usually supplied by the developers.It is just easier to use a generic plot hook so that is why they are used.   