   Laptop Question
  Through some company, there's a limited choice of personal laptops I could buy for a slightly cheaper rate then normal.Out of those choices, what seems interesting to me is this one:Toshiba Satellite L555-130The problem is: it's 3 years ago since I last bought a computer (and it was a desktop computer). I looked up everything about hardware back then when I built it. Now, 3 years later, I once again don't understand anything of the product names. They got only more confusing than back then. At least there was some sort of logic in the numbers of the names of video cards back then. Also, the processor and video card of this laptop appear to be too new to be in charts in Tom's Hardware. And the final problem is, the internet is becoming more and more un-searchable: if you search for something like a CPU model number, all pages google returns are auto-generated content with many times the word "review" in the title, but no actual reviews to be found anywhere.Is there anyone here who can still make sense out of hardware? I've got a few questions :)The processor is: Intel Core i3-330M Processor *) How does that CPU compare to a good old Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (of my good old 3-year old desktop PC)?*) How does it compare to medium to good laptop processors of today?The graphics card is: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5145*) Does this card have its OWN video ram, or is it shared with the general purpose ram? The specification is very vague about this (which makes me fear the worst)*) Does this card work with Linux?*) Can you play serious games on this card?In general: Do you think such a Toshiba laptop could support a dual boot configuration with Windows and Linux?Another potential laptop to choose from has a Intel Core i5-430M CPU, and a NVIDIA GeForce GT330M garphics card. But that one is almost twice as expensive (it also has more RAM and 3x as big harddisk). How do you think the cheaper laptop is compared to this more expensive one? Is the difference big?Thanks.   
  I'm no hardware expert, but I'll give it a go:Quote:Original post by LodeThe processor is: Intel Core i3-330M Processor *) How does that CPU compare to a good old Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (of my good old 3-year old desktop PC)?*) How does it compare to medium to good laptop processors of today?The Intel product specifications for the i3 and the E6600 seem to suggest that the i3 is better. The E6600 has a slightly larger L2 cache (not sure what "Smart Cache" is though) but the i3 supports HyperThreading, giving you 4 hardware threads compared to the E6600's 2.Quote:Original post by LodeThe graphics card is: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5145*) Does this card have its OWN video ram, or is it shared with the general purpose ram? The specification is very vague about this (which makes me fear the worst)*) Does this card work with Linux?*) Can you play serious games on this card?This site claims that the HD 5145 is just a rebranded HD 4600 series GPU. On the other hand, it is said here that it's actually a 4500 series GPU. The latter site also says that it does not have shared memory. Also note that despite of it being 5000 series card it doesn't support DirectX 11.As for Linux support, I haven't used an ATI card under Linux since I replaced my X1900 a year ago (I had some bad experiences with that though, especially when trying to get my multi-monitor setup working). Serious games? I'm going to go with no. That depends on what you mean by serious games, of course, but if gaming on this laptop is a high priority I'd get something that packs more punch.   ;Quote:Original post by WindryderI'm no hardware expert, but I'll give it a go:This site claims that the HD 5145 is just a rebranded HD 4600 series GPU. On the other hand, it is said here that it's actually a 4500 series GPU. The latter site also says that it does not have shared memory. Also note that despite of it being 5000 series card it doesn't support DirectX 11.As for Linux support, I haven't used an ATI card under Linux since I replaced my X1900 a year ago (I had some bad experiences with that though, especially when trying to get my multi-monitor setup working). Serious games? I'm going to go with no. That depends on what you mean by serious games, of course, but if gaming on this laptop is a high priority I'd get something that packs more punch.That helps a bit already :)I also had seen the NVidia comparison chart, and it's because of the less L2 cache that I was wondering whether or not it would be faster (while not being certain whether more hardware threads can increase performance or not if it's on the same core).About the ATI cards: I just really don't understand the product numbers anymore. I thought a while ago they had reached the number "1000" and for that reason added an "X" to names, but now they're instead numbered 4xxx and 5xxx? Or maybe I'm confusing it with Nvidia, who also lost me once they got past 9xxx and had cards with higher numbers that were actually 8xxx's.About serious gaming: how would this card compare to NVidia cards from the 7xxx or 8xxx series (those are also NVidia cards from 3 years ago, but those are cards that I understand!)   ;Wikipedia on HTT:Quote:Hyper-threading works by duplicating certain sections of the processor—those that store the architectural state—but not duplicating the main execution resources. This allows a hyper-threading processor to appear as two "logical" processors to the host operating system, allowing the operating system to schedule two threads or processes simultaneously. When execution resources would not be used by the current task in a processor without hyper-threading, and especially when the processor is stalled, a hyper-threading equipped processor can use those execution resources to execute another scheduled task. (The processor may stall due to a cache miss, branch misprediction, or data dependency.)So as far as I can tell, a HTT processor doesn't actually execute two tasks simultaneously on a single physical core. Rather, it allows quick switching to another task when the primary task is temporarily stalled. You may want to take a look at the "Performance" section in the Wikipedia article i linked above. Performance gain appears to be very application-dependent.About graphics card numbering: yes, it's rather confusing -- especially if you haven't stayed up to date for the last few years. ATI is now working on its 5xxx series (which I guess started with the X1000 series?). NVidia abandoned their four-digit numbers in favor of three-digit numbers quite recently.I found some benchmarks for the HD 4570 and 4530 (the 5150 is, as I said, allegedly a rebranded 4570) here (Crysis). About 28 FPS running Crysis in 1024x768 with shadows on medium and remaining settings on low. I don't find that too impressive.   ;  How much are you willing to spend? Also there's a 480m laptop chip rumored to being released in June. That's when I'm buying a new laptop. If you just want something basic you can try the 18.4" Veda Malibal laptop. It's 2400 USD stock which is a nice price for the dual 285m's, i7 processor, 4 GB of RAM, 320 GB HD, etc. It's a normal gaming laptop though.What are you trying to do with this laptop?(I have a 4.3 year old laptop and I'm just waiting for one with dual 480m cards or something insane since I don't like upgrading laptops. Go big basically. I played Crysis for instance on my current laptop on the lowest settings).   ;Quote:Original post by LodeQuote:Original post by WindryderI'm no hardware expert, but I'll give it a go:This site claims that the HD 5145 is just a rebranded HD 4600 series GPU. On the other hand, it is said here that it's actually a 4500 series GPU. The latter site also says that it does not have shared memory. Also note that despite of it being 5000 series card it doesn't support DirectX 11.As for Linux support, I haven't used an ATI card under Linux since I replaced my X1900 a year ago (I had some bad experiences with that though, especially when trying to get my multi-monitor setup working). Serious games? I'm going to go with no. That depends on what you mean by serious games, of course, but if gaming on this laptop is a high priority I'd get something that packs more punch.That helps a bit already :)I also had seen the NVidia comparison chart, and it's because of the less L2 cache that I was wondering whether or not it would be faster (while not being certain whether more hardware threads can increase performance or not if it's on the same core).About the ATI cards: I just really don't understand the product numbers anymore. I thought a while ago they had reached the number "1000" and for that reason added an "X" to names, but now they're instead numbered 4xxx and 5xxx? Or maybe I'm confusing it with Nvidia, who also lost me once they got past 9xxx and had cards with higher numbers that were actually 8xxx's.About serious gaming: how would this card compare to NVidia cards from the 7xxx or 8xxx series (those are also NVidia cards from 3 years ago, but those are cards that I understand!)Ati's naming scheme is quite simple as naming schemes go:54x0 up to 59x0: DX11 cards51x0: DX10 cards (based on 4x00) that were rebadged due to OEM pressureBased on my experience with a desktop 4850, drivers work ok on Linux most of the time. There are a couple of issues with fast user switching and v-sync that I haven't been able to solve but nothing too serious.Nvidia cards work slightly better on Linux (no problems with fast user switching but v-sync fails there too).   ;  About 6 months ago I started my deployment to Iraq, being the first time I've been separated from my desktop that I've built from the ground up, that I know works perfectly, and that I've come to have a love for...I had to find SOMETHING to take with me.  I'm not a fan of laptops, I've always hated them.  Their hardware limitations, relatively expensive compared to PC's, and most of the time absolute pieces of crap have left a distasteful flavor in my mouth.  That being said I decided to go with a Sony brand laptop and have been absolutely amazed at the quality of laptop they provide.The exact model I have is the Sony Vaio VPCCW21FX.  It uses the same i3 processor and has Nvidia graphics in it(I despise ATI). It also has an HDMI slot in it (woot, woot) -- It can be found for reference on Amazon.com here - http://tiny.cc/hnzh3Being a pretty hardcore gamer myself, I've been able to play Lord of the Rings Online - a game with very impressive graphics due to being an MMO - on the second highest quality graphics setting and have done just fine with it hardware wise. To be honest I really can't complain about anything that the laptop does, except for the lack of USB ports...there's only 3...All of which are on the side, none of which are in the back. The biggest plus is that instead of the heat exhaust fan being on the bottom of the laptop, it's on the left side and is quite big for a laptop. Making it relatively safe to lay on none solid surfaces like a bed or your lap.  As far as me being in the military, it also serves the purpose of heating up my Vienna sausages and pork and beans in a can that I so regularly eat over here being deployed, lol. Anyways, hope this helps :)   ;Here is a list of almost every CPU run against some benchmark or other.  It shows the E6600 scoring 1485 and the i3 scoring 2005, where higher scores are better.  So the i3 is actually pretty significantly faster.If it's in your budget, you can get a lot faster in a laptop.  I have the i7 720 in my laptop, which scored 3230 on that benchmark, and that's the very lowest-end i7 laptop CPU.   ;  I'm going to chime in with my opinions of gaming laptops as a current owner of one. I own an ASUS G50Vt. Specs are: Core2Duo P8700 @ 2.5GHz, 4GB DDR2-800 RAM, Nvidia 9800GS (Which is an underclocked 9800GT and can be overclocked to 9800GT speeds, but I wouldn't recommend it and I'll explain why), 15.4" 1680x1050 screen.First, I love this laptop. After moving between North America and the Middle East I'm glad I was able to take my performance PC with me and still be able to play games and do all the good stuff I was able to do. There's a lot of performance packed into this little machine. Second, I hate this laptop. Even at normal desktop usage the thing is hot and has perceptible noise. The CPU is normally around 50 degrees C and the GPU at 70 degrees C at idle temperature. Playing games the GPU is constantly around 85-90 degrees C. There's just no way to get rid of so much heat using heatpipes and a single fan, even with the lower power usage of mobile components. I can literally keep a cup of coffee hot just by keeping it next to the exhaust vent while playing a game. The second reason I hate this laptop is that it's big and heavy. It may be portable, but I'd say portable means I can take it out of the house someplace else. I wouldn't say it's portable inside the house since it's cumbersome to move it around due to heft and the battery life is abysmal lasting around 2 hours for web surfing which means I have to carry the charger. The physical size of the laptop reminds me of something from the 90's, even if the styling looks nice.The third reason I hate it is the screen is too small. My eye sight is fine, but reading on it with about a meter of distance between myself and the screen is uncomfortable. Games with small icons such as in RTS's (think Supreme Commander in zoomed out strategic view) are less fun to play since i have to concentrate more just to see clearly what it is I'm looking at. It cost me around $1800 last year. I could have bought a gaming desktop, second monitor, AND a $600-700 laptop for work use. I could have even shipped my desktop with me overseas for a fraction more.My recommendation is: unless you have money to burn or you have some outstanding reason for wanting a gaming laptop, such as having a session of Crysis out in the wilderness as you drive back from a client's site, then just save your money and get a gaming desktop and work laptop.The downsides of a gaming laptop greatly outweigh the benefits of one, and cost is just one part of it. If you really want a gaming laptop though, you can't go wrong with ASUS, the build quality on this laptop is great.Hope that helped ;)   ;  If you're looking for some macbook pro type of machine, but cheaper and for win7, I'd keep an eye on the Envy 14. Or 17, but it's more expensive, and has that weird keyboard arrow key setup. Or cheaper still (and not as sleek), the Acer Timeline 4820TG. Basically, the new generation of Optimus / switchable graphics laptops.   