   Tactics RPG Stat Progression
  Me and a group of friends are developing a simple tactics RPG.  While we have mostly finished programming the game engine, and have an idea of how actual attack calculations should be worked out, we have absolutely no idea how to start developing a system of stat progression.Our tactics game will have multiple classes, such as your typical Warrior, Archer, Mage, etc.  We will have the normal statistics - Strength, Defense, Agility, Critical, etc.  While obviously different classes will begin with stats accordingly, we have no idea how, mathematically, each stat should advance as the characters level up in such a way that things remain reasonably balanced.If anybody has any experiencing in programming tactical role playing games or in stat progression for similar games, any advice or links to useful resources would be greatly appreciated :)   
  Excel is your friend here.The only way to get it right, really, is to tweak it a lot. Using Excel to plot what each character class's stats will look like at different levels will help you do that; you can play with different input values and see how they affect the progression curves.(Moving this thread to Game Design)   ;  Of course I understand that no matter what, the system will need to be continually tweaked as time goes on.Perhaps I should outline a very basic concept we had in mind originally. We were in fact intending to stick to only a few basic stats - Strength, Defense, Agility, Magic Defense, Intelligence and some sort of Luck stat for determining critical hits.The idea was that each class would have each stat labelled as "weak", "neutral" or "strong". Each would start off with unique base stats, which would increase each level according to these labels. Strong stats would increase by 1 every other level, and 2 for the remaining levels, neutral by 1, and weak by 1 point every 2 levels (these numbers could obviously be scaled, such as making it 4 for strong, 2 for neutral and 1 for weak).For example, a Warrior would have a strong Strength and Defense stat, and weak Magic Defense and Intelligence. Other stats would be neutral. So progression would go like this:Level 1STR 2DEF 2INT 1MAG D. 1AGI 1LUK 1Level 2STR 3 <-- Up by 1DEF 3 <-- Up by 1INT 1 <-- Doesn't go up yetMAG D. 1 <-- Doesn't go up yetAGI 2 <-- Up by 1LUK 2 <-- Up by 1Level 3STR 5 <-- Up by 2DEF 5 <-- Up by 2INT 2 <-- Up by 1 (second level up)MAG D. 2 <-- Up by 1 (second level up)AGI 3 <-- Up by 1LUK 3 <-- Up by 1And so on...Problem is, I can see this becoming incredibly unbalanced in the higher levels, with different classes having such a wide range of stats that everybody one-hits everybody. I figure we'll have to develop something less simplistic.Sorry if this explanation was a little long-winded, but any thoughts or ideas?  Mathematically I'm just looking for something to set us on the right track.  None of us have any experience trying to design a balanced battle engine.   ;  The wide range problem comes from the low initial values. Start with values of 20~30 and that will somewhat fix it. The problem will still exist, but be pushed to higher levels.To get starting stats, you need to determine how much stronger a character with an appropriate level is at key points in your game. If you want them to hit twice as hard by the time they kill the mid-boss at level 20, then their stats should be twice what they were at level 1. Your warrior would have 30 Str at level 1 and 60 Str at level 20.Also, you may need to tweak your combat system to scale better at higher levels. Take your damage formula and compare levels 1 vs levels XX and check if they still die in the same number of hits. Generally, the core of your combat system should not be affected by levels. The difference should be new features available as the character progress.   ;  You could use a simple 1 point or percentages distribution of stat points per level, where each class has a different distribution but gets an equal number of stat points per level.If each level gives 10 * its level points you’d might have the following growth chart for a fighter.Stat|Growth|Level 1|Level 2|Level 3|Level 4|Level 5 STR|0.30|02|05|11|20|32DEF|0.30|02|05|11|20|32INT|0.05|01|02|03|05|07MAG|0.05|01|02|03|05|07AGI|0.20|01|03|07|13|21LUK|0.10|01|02|04|07|11 You’d want to use excel to tweak the growth levels to fit your other formulas.   ;  Thank you very much for the suggestions!@ TiblancOf course we hadn't actually intended to start the stats so low, I should have taken that into account in my example.  Higher levels is what I had been worried about all along, really.  I figured there might have been a better way mathematically to keep things balanced all the way through than our current model.@ TechnoGothIt took me a couple minutes to understand what you meant, but now that I see it it's certainly an interesting idea.  I can see it still becoming an issue at higher levels though, when you start dividing up, say, 400 stat points for one level.Ultimately all of the problems start to occur at higher levels.  I understand why it happens, I just don't understand how to curve it down to balance everything out in the end, short of tweaking individual levels.   ;  You can always cap the maximum stat points.But then that depends on what problems are occurring at higher levels that you are trying to resolve?;Quote:Original post by code_punkUltimately all of the problems start to occur at higher levels.  I understand why it happens, I just don't understand how to curve it down to balance everything out in the end, short of tweaking individual levels.You're probably using exponential damage with linear defense. If you have a multiplication of 2 growing statistics in your damage formula and a linear growth for your durability, you will have the problem, no matter how you tweak stat progression. If this is the case, you can either change damage to be linear or durability to work like damage.   ;  I think I may be overestimating the balance issues that would arise using these systems.  I suppose really the best thing to do is simply to test what we have now and see if imbalances occur.One thing I have been considering is that typically in this type of game, equipment raises the strong stats of a class, not the weak ones.  For example, mage equipment would yield more intelligence, warrior equips more strength etc.  Thus, the stats should only show minimal difference between classes, no?  For example, a mage's intelligence stat shouldn't be twice as high as it's defense stat, because equipment would then add even more intelligence and mess everything up.So perhaps, base stats should be determined for each class, and difference of development between all of them should be very minimal.All of this is a little beyond me, completely new territory.  We'll do some tests and see what we can come up with.   ;Quote:Original post by code_punkOne thing I have been considering is that typically in this type of game, equipment raises the strong stats of a class, not the weak ones.  For example, mage equipment would yield more intelligence, warrior equips more strength etc.  Thus, the stats should only show minimal difference between classes, no?  For example, a mage's intelligence stat shouldn't be twice as high as it's defense stat, because equipment would then add even more intelligence and mess everything up.This depends more on your design choice of where characters get their power. If you want items to play the biggest role in power growth, then most of your stats need to come from items. At the opposite, if you want classes to differentiate based on their class, then stats need to come from the class at level up. In both case, the balance between stats and growth remain unchanged.For example, you determine a mage should have 50 Intelligence at level 10. In an item oriented game, you may have 15 come from the mage class and 35 come from items. In a class oriented game, 35 would come from the mage class and 15 from items.When balancing encounters, you can assume the mage will have 50 Intelligence in both systems, so it shouldn't affect this part of the game.   