I'm actually fairly convinced that ver hooven tricked his actors in Troopers into thinking that they were making an action flick and not a critique of propaganda.

The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!

The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!

I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?

My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.

The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!

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Originally Posted by midwinter

I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?

My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.

I was disappointed too that they threw out the mobile suits and most of the rest of the book as well. What irked me most was them keeping the RPG nukes while the soldiers ran around without any protective gear. :/

I'd still rate it OK as a 'popcorn' flick, it also has some great lines in it .

Since they left out the armor suits maybe they'll come out with a movie of John Steakley's Armor some day. Similar to ST, humans fighting giant insect aliens with power armor, but without so much political commentary.

You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James LovelockThe Story of Stuff

I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?

My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.

i just saw it... and while i agree that that subtext was there... it was either all or none -- there were vast tracks of the movie that were simply standard fare action films -- the only real critique was the intermittent news reals and the fact that the script called for everyone being a little brain dead. it was cliched but wasn't willing to accept it was cliched...

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

i just saw it... and while i agree that that subtext was there... it was either all or none -- there were vast tracks of the movie that were simply standard fare action films -- the only real critique was the intermittent news reals and the fact that the script called for everyone being a little brain dead. it was cliched but wasn't willing to accept it was cliched...

See, I think it's pretty clearly deploying those cliches as part of its critique.

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.

See, I think it's pretty clearly deploying those cliches as part of its critique.

i have decided that i am only really liking films that don't care how bad they are... this is the army of darkness style films that become so terrible, they twist back around to great.

starship troopers just takes itself too seriously -- one can almost hear the director telling everyone to try to deliver their lines with no irony, as they are making art... i am sorry, but if you want to mock something, you have to be able to mock yourself... there is no irony in that movie other than the clearly intentional overbearing dripping sort...

it is too light headed to be asking the audience to think... the movie wasn't subtle -- it actually presented no counter point to its core argument, which is ultimately disappointing.

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

Starship Troopers is something of a paradox, an exercise in and examination of mindlessness. I mean, it's not rocket science, but its cynicism is simultaneously smarmy and smart, exacting a cost for any pleasure you may take in its nasty-ass violence. In this respect it's not unlike Verhoeven's remarkable Robocop (1987), which was good gory fun as well as an astute look at Reaganomics, '80s corporate politics, privatization and the uncomfortable legacy of the Hollywood Western. The new film is less weighed down by major iconography (the robosuited Peter Weller seeking his identity had its heavy-handed moments), more relaxed and self-reflexive. For example, it lifts those "commercial spots" directly from Robocop: here these comedic insertionsappearing as if on television, commenting ironically on the progressively brutal actionmake the point that the military's recruitment campaign is perpetual, that war is business, that bugs and recruits are similarly expendable.

It's not a little funny that Verhoeven calls it his most "romantic" film, noting that a character says "I love you" and means it, but the fact that the cast is (relatively) fresh meat lifted quite literally from Aaron Spelling's TV-soap-land, suggests that the director is either messing with his interviewer or seeing romance as one big cliché. Either way or both ways, the film does do a number on those romantic clichés that constitute traditional war imagery.

...

I raise this question because it applies to the film's generally ambiguous tone. Starship Troopers may be less overt about its politics than Robocop, but any movie that turns Doogie Howser into a fascist has some serious cultural analysis going on. Its glib depictions of dismemberment, decapitation and horrendous evisceration can be alarming, but they can also be understood as the film's (rather visceral) assessment offor instancethe current U.S. drive toward escalating militarization, incorporation and globalization. This picture is not pretty.

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.

i do understand where you are coming from -- i just don't agree that it was done well or with the right pitch. my point is that the book that was being mocked was as mindless as the movie -- there was no higher intellectual ground achieved, if anything the movie justified the pithy and knee-jerk assessments of complex sociological phenomena that it was attempting to criticize... i'd rather not be spoon fed a political ideology, even if i agree with it...

"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."

i do understand where you are coming from -- i just don't agree that it was done well or with the right pitch. my point is that the book that was being mocked was as mindless as the movie -- there was no higher intellectual ground achieved, if anything the movie justified the pithy and knee-jerk assessments of complex sociological phenomena that it was attempting to criticize... i'd rather not be spoon fed a political ideology, even if i agree with it...

I'm pretty sure Robert Heinlein would've hated the movie, since he wrote it for young boys. Veerhoven gave the film his trademark savagery but kept the amusing teenager naivete intact. A disturbing combination, leading some to call the film propaganda (interestingly, also a criticism of the book).

I just saw The Bridge of San Luis Rey (2004). I expected it to be horrible based on the reviews, but I was pleasantly surprised. The script was confused and muddled, but every other aspect was superb, so I was never bored. I gave it a 7/10.

Scarface
Pan's Labrynth
Y tu mama, tambien?
Unfaithful (Diane Lane is a fox )
A Life Aquatic
300
Hard Candy (Please, do yourself a favor and watch one of the most brilliantly written movies. If you like a psychological movie then this is it!!!)
Any movie with Chris Farley in it (i.e. - Black Sheep, Tommy Boy, Almost Heros, Beverly Hills Ninja, ect...)
No Country For Old Men - must see
There Will Be Blood
Taxi Driver

There are too many to list but go watch Hard Candy and tell me what you think.....def

Scarface
Pan's Labrynth
Y tu mama, tambien?
Unfaithful (Diane Lane is a fox )
A Life Aquatic
300
Hard Candy (Please, do yourself a favor and watch one of the most brilliantly written movies. If you like a psychological movie then this is it!!!)
Any movie with Chris Farley in it (i.e. - Black Sheep, Tommy Boy, Almost Heros, Beverly Hills Ninja, ect...)
No Country For Old Men - must see
There Will Be Blood
Taxi Driver

There are too many to list but go watch Hard Candy and tell me what you think.....def

oooh Hard Candy is sooo good.

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.

Fighting God/Fate -- one of the most self-consciously godless popular films I've seen. A man is "born" in water at the beginning, and proceeds to transcend, and then kill, his god-captors. The Scientist is his salvific figure/conduit to self-realization.

Now, the whole space-vampire thing was weak, but otherwise it's pretty tight. The imagery of being manipulated for sport is very strong.

What did you think about No Country for Old Men?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Fighting God/Fate -- one of the most self-consciously godless popular films I've seen. A man is "born" in water at the beginning, and proceeds to transcend, and then kill, his god-captors. The Scientist is his salvific figure/conduit to self-realization.

Hrm. Never thought about it as a kind of Frankenstein. I'll have to watch it again.

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Now, the whole space-vampire thing was weak, but otherwise it's pretty tight. The imagery of being manipulated for sport is very strong.

Agreed.

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What did you think about No Country for Old Men?

I thought it was a work of sheer genius.

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.

Going out on a limb here: Cautionary tale of human frailty -- with social criticism -- on a metaphysically epic scale.

I'm not really sure what that means. I thought it was mostly that capitalism is competition is struggle and replaces and destroys familial and social relations; in the end stasis can only be reached if the competitor is destroyed.

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.