# Bagalamukhi Devi/Born Gurus/Born Brahmins--Venkatarama

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Hello Venkatrama:

I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and the South

as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable and even

today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. -- There is

an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and MADE Hindus.

I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship along

with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in ridiculous ways--

MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on the floor

and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of Lord

Krishna.

I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE" Hindu women

were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I considered

calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the BORN

Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the police.--

These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention the sex and

child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in some time

back.

Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister jumping,

yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana Aarti???

"Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting more

shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some realities

I've observed.

Mukund

vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by birth, and

> that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be shot

> down :-) Allow me ...

>

> What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma Gyana

> sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the treasure of

> Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

>

> Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-Indians? Well,

> India today is very different from the India of the Vedic times ...

> it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma

> etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it extended,

> which means that your Maharastra may not have even been part of it,

> and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

>

> A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils to God. I

> remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from godman to

> godman, asking them the same question, can you show me God? Only

> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple "Yes", and

hence

> he was his disciple for life.

>

> I have my questions about whether mantras need to be taught by a

> Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not only teaches

> the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also transfers some

of

> His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is this power

> that makes the difference.

>

> Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than a Deeksha

> Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying to learn

> to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on Mantras,

not

> a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you are trying

> to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc. These are

> all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak, and you go

> to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

>

> Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born, not made,

> but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born with the

> sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help others etc.

>

> OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-). No offence

> intended!

>

> Venkatarama

>

> vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

<monmuk111>

> wrote:

> > Hello nameisego:

> >

> > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the Bagalmukhi

> and

> > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the internet and in

a

> > variety of books.

> >

> > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS A GURU?

> There

> > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus who can

> hardly

> > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs) they sing

> sound

> > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. -- And all of

> these

> > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> >

> > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit mantras or

> > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and Telugu

the

> > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> >

> > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a matter of

> > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous sounds

> these

> > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the other hand,

> > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots of other

> > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu,

> Varanashi,

> > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations should be

> ACCURATE.

> >

> > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in today's India

> Gurus

> > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-Royces),

> but

> > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and mantra-shastra

> > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> Maharastrian

> > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his tounge.

> >

> > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by hand),

also

> > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as claimed

by

> > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many Maharastrian Brahmins

> > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India I haven't

> > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-shastra and

> Vedic

> > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board don't know

> > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> >

> > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on this board

> who

> > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING on the tip

> of

> > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the Mantras OR a

REAL

> > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since childhood) in

> learning

> > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-Shastra?

> >

> > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one find a Guru?--

> a

> > real one, not a web-Guru.

> >

> > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down) is that a

> Guru

> > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru has to be

a

> > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e. follow a

> strict

> > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not EVER

> indulging

> > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas, follows a

> > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most importantly follow a

> > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER PROFIT from

> his

> > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL GURUS in

> > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect grains,

> > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these donations.

> >

> > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would ONLY find

> such

> > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way of life.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> <nameisego>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Friend,

> > >

> > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other Shakti

> must

> > be

> > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja vidhans are

> > > dangerous.

> > >

> > > Tatvam-Asi

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > Dear all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one can help

> me

> > in

> > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa bagalamukhi.

> > > >

> > > > Warm regards

> > > >

> > > > Reghu

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Dear Venkat:

I need to add/amend to the definition of a foreigner--

A foreigner is one who is NOT born a Hindu, Sikh, Sindhi or Buddhist.

The Sikhs, Sindhis and Buddists are my brothers, they're all born

into derivatives of Hinduism.

Mukund

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

wrote:

> Hello Venkatrama:

>

> I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and the South

> as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable and even

> today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

>

> By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. -- There is

> an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and MADE

Hindus.

> I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship along

> with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in ridiculous

ways--

> MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on the floor

> and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of Lord

> Krishna.

>

> I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE" Hindu women

> were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I considered

> calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the BORN

> Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the police.--

> These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention the sex

and

> child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in some time

> back.

>

> Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister jumping,

> yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana Aarti???

>

> "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

>

> Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting more

> shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some realities

> I've observed.

>

> Mukund

>

> vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by birth,

and

> > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be shot

> > down :-) Allow me ...

> >

> > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma Gyana

> > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the treasure of

> > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> >

> > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-Indians? Well,

> > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

times ...

> > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh,

Burma

> > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

extended,

> > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been part of

it,

> > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> >

> > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils to God.

I

> > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from godman to

> > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me God? Only

> > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple "Yes", and

> hence

> > he was his disciple for life.

> >

> > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be taught by a

> > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not only

teaches

> > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also transfers some

> of

> > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is this

power

> > that makes the difference.

> >

> > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than a

Deeksha

> > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying to

learn

> > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on Mantras,

> not

> > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you are

trying

> > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc. These are

> > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak, and you

go

> > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> >

> > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born, not

> > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born with the

> > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help others etc.

> >

> > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-). No

offence

> > intended!

> >

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> <monmuk111>

> > wrote:

> > > Hello nameisego:

> > >

> > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the Bagalmukhi

> > and

> > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the internet and

in

> a

> > > variety of books.

> > >

> > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS A GURU?

> > There

> > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus who can

> > hardly

> > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs) they sing

> > sound

> > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. -- And all of

> > these

> > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > >

> > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit mantras

or

> > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and Telugu

> the

> > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > >

> > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a matter of

> > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous sounds

> > these

> > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the other hand,

> > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots of other

> > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu,

> > Varanashi,

> > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations should be

> > ACCURATE.

> > >

> > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in today's India

> > Gurus

> > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

Royces),

> > but

> > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and mantra-

shastra

> > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > Maharastrian

> > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his tounge.

> > >

> > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by hand),

> also

> > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as claimed

> by

> > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many Maharastrian

Brahmins

> > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India I

haven't

> > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-shastra and

> > Vedic

> > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board don't

know

> > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > >

> > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on this board

> > who

> > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING on the

tip

> > of

> > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the Mantras OR a

> REAL

> > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since childhood) in

> > learning

> > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-Shastra?

> > >

> > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one find a

Guru?--

> > a

> > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > >

> > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down) is that

a

> > Guru

> > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru has to

be

> a

> > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e. follow a

> > strict

> > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not EVER

> > indulging

> > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas, follows

a

> > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most importantly follow

a

> > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER PROFIT

from

> > his

> > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL GURUS

in

> > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect grains,

> > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these donations.

> > >

> > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would ONLY find

> > such

> > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way of life.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > <nameisego>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello Friend,

> > > >

> > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other Shakti

> > must

> > > be

> > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja vidhans are

> > > > dangerous.

> > > >

> > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one can

help

> > me

> > > in

> > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa bagalamukhi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Warm regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Reghu

##### Share on other sites

Meera Bai is the first example that comes to mind.... "shamelessly"

dancing in the streets in escatacy over Krishna

Chaitanya Mahaa Prabhu / Gouranga, the Guru of many...

Sant Tukaaram (incidentally from Maharastra) is said to have been so

carried away with dancing and singing Ranganaatha's name that he did

not even notice that he was trampling his own baby!

Annamaacharya, the Telugu musician and devotee sang and danced in

the streets in praise of Lord Venkateswara, as part of his

Bikshaatana

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was called a madman by the priests in the

Kali temple for his crying for days on end, in front of the Mother,

begging to catch a glimpse of her....

Hinduism has many shining examples of devotees that "made a fool of

themselves". It also has a lot of examples of the serene,

intelligent and calm Acharyas, like Adi Shankaraacharya etc. Who can

say one kind is better than the other? Each of us has our own way to

reach the Divine, based on our natural inclinations.

Sincerely,

Venkatarama

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

wrote:

> Hello Venkatrama:

>

> I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and the

South

> as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable and even

> today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

>

> By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. -- There

is

> an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and MADE

Hindus.

> I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship along

> with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in ridiculous

ways--

> MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on the floor

> and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of Lord

> Krishna.

>

> I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE" Hindu women

> were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I

considered

> calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the BORN

> Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the police.--

> These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention the sex

and

> child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in some time

> back.

>

> Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister jumping,

> yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana Aarti???

>

> "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

>

> Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting more

> shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some realities

> I've observed.

>

> Mukund

>

> vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by birth,

and

> > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be shot

> > down :-) Allow me ...

> >

> > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma Gyana

> > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the treasure

of

> > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> >

> > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-Indians?

Well,

> > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

times ...

> > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh,

Burma

> > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

extended,

> > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been part of

it,

> > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> >

> > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils to God.

I

> > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from godman to

> > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me God? Only

> > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple "Yes", and

> hence

> > he was his disciple for life.

> >

> > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be taught by a

> > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not only

teaches

> > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also transfers

some

> of

> > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is this

power

> > that makes the difference.

> >

> > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than a

Deeksha

> > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying to

learn

> > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on Mantras,

> not

> > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you are

trying

> > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc. These

are

> > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak, and you

go

> > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> >

> > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born, not

> > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born with the

> > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help others etc.

> >

> > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-). No

offence

> > intended!

> >

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> <monmuk111>

> > wrote:

> > > Hello nameisego:

> > >

> > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the

Bagalmukhi

> > and

> > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the internet and

in

> a

> > > variety of books.

> > >

> > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS A GURU?

> > There

> > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus who can

> > hardly

> > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs) they sing

> > sound

> > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. -- And all

of

> > these

> > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > >

> > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit mantras

or

> > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and Telugu

> the

> > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > >

> > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a matter of

> > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous sounds

> > these

> > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the other hand,

> > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots of other

> > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu,

> > Varanashi,

> > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations should be

> > ACCURATE.

> > >

> > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in today's India

> > Gurus

> > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

Royces),

> > but

> > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and mantra-

shastra

> > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > Maharastrian

> > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his

tounge.

> > >

> > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by hand),

> also

> > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as

claimed

> by

> > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many Maharastrian

Brahmins

> > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India I

haven't

> > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-shastra and

> > Vedic

> > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board don't

know

> > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > >

> > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on this

board

> > who

> > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING on the

tip

> > of

> > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the Mantras OR a

> REAL

> > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since childhood) in

> > learning

> > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-Shastra?

> > >

> > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one find a

Guru?--

> > a

> > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > >

> > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down) is that

a

> > Guru

> > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru has to

be

> a

> > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e. follow a

> > strict

> > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not EVER

> > indulging

> > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas,

follows a

> > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most importantly

> > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER PROFIT

from

> > his

> > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL GURUS

in

> > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect

grains,

> > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these donations.

> > >

> > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would ONLY

find

> > such

> > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way of

life.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > <nameisego>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello Friend,

> > > >

> > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other Shakti

> > must

> > > be

> > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja vidhans are

> > > > dangerous.

> > > >

> > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one can

help

> > me

> > > in

> > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa bagalamukhi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Warm regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Reghu

##### Share on other sites

Hello Venkat:

Very nice example of dancing Meera Bai. However, I'm not quite

convinced that what Meera-Bai did was right.

She abandoned her husband (a non-abusive husband)and went around

dancing in joy over Lord Krishna. By doing this, she failed in

performing her DHARMA towards her legally wedded husband and

committed a sin. This DHARMA was preached by Lord Krishna himself

that everyone should perform his/her DHARMA towards their parents,

spouses, kids and society without any expectations in return.

Did Meera-Bai ever think about her husband--what would he eat, how

will he live if she abandoned him?

I wonder how Lord Krishna would have reacted to her failing in her

DHARMA towards her husband?

Thinking in terms of karma and re-birth, Meera-Bai in her next birth

would have been married to an abusive husband who'd abandone her for

another woman he adored to pay for her past-life sins.

Also, Meera-Bai, due to her dancing ways was shunned by the society

and told drink poison. A dancing woman was unexceptable by the

society then, similarly, the dancing "foreign" women are unexceptable

now.

Thank God, the real Hindu women are upholding their real Hindu

virtues and upbringing and not yelling, screaming and collapsing

while praying to Satyanaraya.

Mukund

vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> Meera Bai is the first example that comes to mind.... "shamelessly"

> dancing in the streets in escatacy over Krishna

> Chaitanya Mahaa Prabhu / Gouranga, the Guru of many...

> Sant Tukaaram (incidentally from Maharastra) is said to have been

so

> carried away with dancing and singing Ranganaatha's name that he

did

> not even notice that he was trampling his own baby!

> Annamaacharya, the Telugu musician and devotee sang and danced in

> the streets in praise of Lord Venkateswara, as part of his

> Bikshaatana

> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was called a madman by the priests in the

> Kali temple for his crying for days on end, in front of the Mother,

> begging to catch a glimpse of her....

>

> Hinduism has many shining examples of devotees that "made a fool of

> themselves". It also has a lot of examples of the serene,

> intelligent and calm Acharyas, like Adi Shankaraacharya etc. Who

can

> say one kind is better than the other? Each of us has our own way

to

> reach the Divine, based on our natural inclinations.

>

> Sincerely,

> Venkatarama

>

> vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

<monmuk111>

> wrote:

> > Hello Venkatrama:

> >

> > I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and the

> South

> > as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable and even

> > today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

> >

> > By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. -- There

> is

> > an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and MADE

> Hindus.

> > I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship along

> > with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in ridiculous

> ways--

> > MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on the

floor

> > and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of Lord

> > Krishna.

> >

> > I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE" Hindu

women

> > were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I

> considered

> > calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the BORN

> > Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the police.--

> > These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention the sex

> and

> > child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in some time

> > back.

> >

> > Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister jumping,

> > yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana Aarti???

> >

> > "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

> >

> > Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting more

> > shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some realities

> > I've observed.

> >

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by birth,

> and

> > > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be shot

> > > down :-) Allow me ...

> > >

> > > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma Gyana

> > > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the treasure

> of

> > > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > >

> > > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-Indians?

> Well,

> > > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

> times ...

> > > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh,

> Burma

> > > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

> extended,

> > > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been part of

> it,

> > > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> > >

> > > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils to

God.

> I

> > > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from godman to

> > > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me God?

Only

> > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple "Yes", and

> > hence

> > > he was his disciple for life.

> > >

> > > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be taught by

a

> > > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not only

> teaches

> > > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also transfers

> some

> > of

> > > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is this

> power

> > > that makes the difference.

> > >

> > > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than a

> Deeksha

> > > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying to

> learn

> > > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on

Mantras,

> > not

> > > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you are

> trying

> > > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc. These

> are

> > > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak, and you

> go

> > > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > >

> > > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born, not

> > > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born with the

> > > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help others etc.

> > >

> > > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-). No

> offence

> > > intended!

> > >

> > > Venkatarama

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > <monmuk111>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > >

> > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the

> Bagalmukhi

> > > and

> > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the internet and

> in

> > a

> > > > variety of books.

> > > >

> > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS A

GURU?

> > > There

> > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus who can

> > > hardly

> > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs) they sing

> > > sound

> > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. -- And all

> of

> > > these

> > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > >

> > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit mantras

> or

> > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and

Telugu

> > the

> > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > >

> > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a matter of

> > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous

sounds

> > > these

> > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the other

hand,

> > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots of

other

> > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu,

> > > Varanashi,

> > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations should be

> > > ACCURATE.

> > > >

> > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in today's

India

> > > Gurus

> > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

> Royces),

> > > but

> > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and mantra-

> shastra

> > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > > Maharastrian

> > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his

> tounge.

> > > >

> > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by hand),

> > also

> > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as

> claimed

> > by

> > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many Maharastrian

> Brahmins

> > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India I

> haven't

> > > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-shastra and

> > > Vedic

> > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board don't

> know

> > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > > >

> > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on this

> board

> > > who

> > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING on the

> tip

> > > of

> > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the Mantras OR a

> > REAL

> > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since childhood) in

> > > learning

> > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-Shastra?

> > > >

> > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one find a

> Guru?--

> > > a

> > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > >

> > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down) is

that

> a

> > > Guru

> > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru has to

> be

> > a

> > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e. follow a

> > > strict

> > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not EVER

> > > indulging

> > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas,

> follows a

> > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most importantly

> > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER PROFIT

> from

> > > his

> > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL GURUS

> in

> > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect

> grains,

> > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these

donations.

> > > >

> > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would ONLY

> find

> > > such

> > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way of

> life.

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully,

> > > > Mukund

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > > <nameisego>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > >

> > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other

Shakti

> > > must

> > > > be

> > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja vidhans

are

> > > > > dangerous.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one can

> help

> > > me

> > > > in

> > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa

bagalamukhi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Reghu

##### Share on other sites

Dear Mukund,

I am not such a great person that I would question Meera Bai's

behavior :-). To me, what she did was much much much more sacred

than what a normal woman would do.

Remember, the same Sree Krishna at the end of the same Bhagavat

Geeta you are quoting also said, "Sarva Dharmaan paritragya,

maamekam saranam vrajaa" (my sanskrit could be off, sorry),

meaning, "leave all dharmas alone, and surrender only to me". This

is what Meera Bai did, and I only wish I had her conviction and

strength of character to disregard everything else, and follow the

dear wonderful Child to my salvation.

So, is this what this is about... you don't like the behavior of

some women who are converts to Hinduism? I don't see you complaining

about the men dancing and fainting, either the converts, or the

Hindu examples I gave in my posting. Excuse me, but this sounds

sexist.

Venkatarama

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

wrote:

> Hello Venkat:

>

> Very nice example of dancing Meera Bai. However, I'm not quite

> convinced that what Meera-Bai did was right.

>

> She abandoned her husband (a non-abusive husband)and went around

> dancing in joy over Lord Krishna. By doing this, she failed in

> performing her DHARMA towards her legally wedded husband and

> committed a sin. This DHARMA was preached by Lord Krishna himself

> that everyone should perform his/her DHARMA towards their parents,

> spouses, kids and society without any expectations in return.

>

> Did Meera-Bai ever think about her husband--what would he eat, how

> will he live if she abandoned him?

>

> I wonder how Lord Krishna would have reacted to her failing in her

> DHARMA towards her husband?

>

> Thinking in terms of karma and re-birth, Meera-Bai in her next

birth

> would have been married to an abusive husband who'd abandone her

for

> another woman he adored to pay for her past-life sins.

>

> Also, Meera-Bai, due to her dancing ways was shunned by the

society

> and told drink poison. A dancing woman was unexceptable by the

> society then, similarly, the dancing "foreign" women are

unexceptable

> now.

>

> Thank God, the real Hindu women are upholding their real Hindu

> virtues and upbringing and not yelling, screaming and collapsing

> while praying to Satyanaraya.

>

> Mukund

>

> vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Meera Bai is the first example that comes to

mind.... "shamelessly"

> > dancing in the streets in escatacy over Krishna

> > Chaitanya Mahaa Prabhu / Gouranga, the Guru of many...

> > Sant Tukaaram (incidentally from Maharastra) is said to have

been

> so

> > carried away with dancing and singing Ranganaatha's name that he

> did

> > not even notice that he was trampling his own baby!

> > Annamaacharya, the Telugu musician and devotee sang and danced

in

> > the streets in praise of Lord Venkateswara, as part of his

> > Bikshaatana

> > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was called a madman by the priests in

the

> > Kali temple for his crying for days on end, in front of the

Mother,

> > begging to catch a glimpse of her....

> >

> > Hinduism has many shining examples of devotees that "made a fool

of

> > themselves". It also has a lot of examples of the serene,

> > intelligent and calm Acharyas, like Adi Shankaraacharya etc. Who

> can

> > say one kind is better than the other? Each of us has our own

way

> to

> > reach the Divine, based on our natural inclinations.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> <monmuk111>

> > wrote:

> > > Hello Venkatrama:

> > >

> > > I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and the

> > South

> > > as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable and

even

> > > today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

> > >

> > > By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. --

There

> > is

> > > an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and MADE

> > Hindus.

> > > I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship

along

> > > with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in

ridiculous

> > ways--

> > > MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on the

> floor

> > > and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of

Lord

> > > Krishna.

> > >

> > > I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE" Hindu

> women

> > > were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I

> > considered

> > > calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the

BORN

> > > Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the

police.--

> > > These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention the

sex

> > and

> > > child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in some

time

> > > back.

> > >

> > > Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister

jumping,

> > > yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana Aarti???

> > >

> > > "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

> > >

> > > Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting more

> > > shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some

realities

> > > I've observed.

> > >

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by

birth,

> > and

> > > > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be

shot

> > > > down :-) Allow me ...

> > > >

> > > > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma Gyana

> > > > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the

treasure

> > of

> > > > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > > >

> > > > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-Indians?

> > Well,

> > > > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

> > times ...

> > > > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan,

> > Burma

> > > > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

> > extended,

> > > > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been part

of

> > it,

> > > > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> > > >

> > > > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils to

> God.

> > I

> > > > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from godman

to

> > > > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me God?

> Only

> > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple "Yes",

and

> > > hence

> > > > he was his disciple for life.

> > > >

> > > > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be taught

by

> a

> > > > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not only

> > teaches

> > > > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also transfers

> > some

> > > of

> > > > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is

this

> > power

> > > > that makes the difference.

> > > >

> > > > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than a

> > Deeksha

> > > > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying to

> > learn

> > > > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on

> Mantras,

> > > not

> > > > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you are

> > trying

> > > > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc.

These

> > are

> > > > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak, and

you

> > go

> > > > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > > >

> > > > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born, not

> > > > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born with

the

> > > > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help others

etc.

> > > >

> > > > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-). No

> > offence

> > > > intended!

> > > >

> > > > Venkatarama

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > <monmuk111>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > > >

> > > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the

> > Bagalmukhi

> > > > and

> > > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the internet

and

> > in

> > > a

> > > > > variety of books.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS A

> GURU?

> > > > There

> > > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus who

can

> > > > hardly

> > > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs) they

sing

> > > > sound

> > > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. -- And

all

> > of

> > > > these

> > > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit

mantras

> > or

> > > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and

> Telugu

> > > the

> > > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a matter

of

> > > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous

> sounds

> > > > these

> > > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the other

> hand,

> > > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots of

> other

> > > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu,

> > > > Varanashi,

> > > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations should

be

> > > > ACCURATE.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in today's

> India

> > > > Gurus

> > > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

> > Royces),

> > > > but

> > > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and mantra-

> > shastra

> > > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > > > Maharastrian

> > > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his

> > tounge.

> > > > >

> > > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by

hand),

> > > also

> > > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as

> > claimed

> > > by

> > > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many Maharastrian

> > Brahmins

> > > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India I

> > haven't

> > > > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-shastra

and

> > > > Vedic

> > > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board

don't

> > know

> > > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on this

> > board

> > > > who

> > > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING on

the

> > tip

> > > > of

> > > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the Mantras

OR a

> > > REAL

> > > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since childhood)

in

> > > > learning

> > > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-Shastra?

> > > > >

> > > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one find a

> > Guru?--

> > > > a

> > > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down) is

> that

> > a

> > > > Guru

> > > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru has

to

> > be

> > > a

> > > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e.

> > > > strict

> > > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not EVER

> > > > indulging

> > > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas,

> > follows a

> > > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most importantly

> > > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER

PROFIT

> > from

> > > > his

> > > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL

GURUS

> > in

> > > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect

> > grains,

> > > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these

> donations.

> > > > >

> > > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would ONLY

> > find

> > > > such

> > > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way of

> > life.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > Mukund

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > > > <nameisego>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other

> Shakti

> > > > must

> > > > > be

> > > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja vidhans

> are

> > > > > > dangerous.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one

can

> > help

> > > > me

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa

> bagalamukhi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Reghu

##### Share on other sites

Dear Venkat:

It may sound sexist, but it isn't.

Men have been dancing since the time of Lord Shiva, remember his

Tandav-Nrityu? So, Men are allowed to dance. AND, we have allowed

women to dance during navratri (the nine nights of Goddess Durga),

it's a festival of a female Goddess so we've made concessions and

allowed our females to dance in joy and reverence to Durga-ma. But,

random and occassionally VULGAR dancing during prayers is

unexceptable.

There is no mention in our scripture of women dancing except for

Apsaras who weren't upto anything good--the Apsaras were concubines

of Indra whom he used generously to distract the GREAT sages from

their Tapsya. Have you ever heard of a non-Apsara, non-nritungna

woman like Ansuya, Durga, Bhuvneshvari, etc. dance during

Aarti/prayers.

We all have our rights and duties.

Women have a right and duty to clean, cook and bear children.

Men have a right and duty to earn and protect his family and property.

Children have a right and duty to obey their parents until they

Mukund

vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> Dear Mukund,

>

> I am not such a great person that I would question Meera Bai's

> behavior :-). To me, what she did was much much much more sacred

> than what a normal woman would do.

>

> Remember, the same Sree Krishna at the end of the same Bhagavat

> Geeta you are quoting also said, "Sarva Dharmaan paritragya,

> maamekam saranam vrajaa" (my sanskrit could be off, sorry),

> meaning, "leave all dharmas alone, and surrender only to me". This

> is what Meera Bai did, and I only wish I had her conviction and

> strength of character to disregard everything else, and follow the

> dear wonderful Child to my salvation.

>

> So, is this what this is about... you don't like the behavior of

> some women who are converts to Hinduism? I don't see you

complaining

> about the men dancing and fainting, either the converts, or the

> Hindu examples I gave in my posting. Excuse me, but this sounds

> sexist.

>

> Venkatarama

>

> vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

<monmuk111>

> wrote:

> > Hello Venkat:

> >

> > Very nice example of dancing Meera Bai. However, I'm not quite

> > convinced that what Meera-Bai did was right.

> >

> > She abandoned her husband (a non-abusive husband)and went around

> > dancing in joy over Lord Krishna. By doing this, she failed in

> > performing her DHARMA towards her legally wedded husband and

> > committed a sin. This DHARMA was preached by Lord Krishna himself

> > that everyone should perform his/her DHARMA towards their

parents,

> > spouses, kids and society without any expectations in return.

> >

> > Did Meera-Bai ever think about her husband--what would he eat,

how

> > will he live if she abandoned him?

> >

> > I wonder how Lord Krishna would have reacted to her failing in

her

> > DHARMA towards her husband?

> >

> > Thinking in terms of karma and re-birth, Meera-Bai in her next

> birth

> > would have been married to an abusive husband who'd abandone her

> for

> > another woman he adored to pay for her past-life sins.

> >

> > Also, Meera-Bai, due to her dancing ways was shunned by the

> society

> > and told drink poison. A dancing woman was unexceptable by the

> > society then, similarly, the dancing "foreign" women are

> unexceptable

> > now.

> >

> > Thank God, the real Hindu women are upholding their real Hindu

> > virtues and upbringing and not yelling, screaming and collapsing

> > while praying to Satyanaraya.

> >

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > Meera Bai is the first example that comes to

> mind.... "shamelessly"

> > > dancing in the streets in escatacy over Krishna

> > > Chaitanya Mahaa Prabhu / Gouranga, the Guru of many...

> > > Sant Tukaaram (incidentally from Maharastra) is said to have

> been

> > so

> > > carried away with dancing and singing Ranganaatha's name that

he

> > did

> > > not even notice that he was trampling his own baby!

> > > Annamaacharya, the Telugu musician and devotee sang and danced

> in

> > > the streets in praise of Lord Venkateswara, as part of his

> > > Bikshaatana

> > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was called a madman by the priests in

> the

> > > Kali temple for his crying for days on end, in front of the

> Mother,

> > > begging to catch a glimpse of her....

> > >

> > > Hinduism has many shining examples of devotees that "made a

fool

> of

> > > themselves". It also has a lot of examples of the serene,

> > > intelligent and calm Acharyas, like Adi Shankaraacharya etc.

Who

> > can

> > > say one kind is better than the other? Each of us has our own

> way

> > to

> > > reach the Divine, based on our natural inclinations.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > > Venkatarama

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > <monmuk111>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Hello Venkatrama:

> > > >

> > > > I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and the

> > > South

> > > > as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable and

> even

> > > > today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

> > > >

> > > > By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. --

> There

> > > is

> > > > an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and MADE

> > > Hindus.

> > > > I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship

> along

> > > > with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in

> ridiculous

> > > ways--

> > > > MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on the

> > floor

> > > > and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of

> Lord

> > > > Krishna.

> > > >

> > > > I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE" Hindu

> > women

> > > > were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I

> > > considered

> > > > calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the

> BORN

> > > > Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the

> police.--

> > > > These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention the

> sex

> > > and

> > > > child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in some

> time

> > > > back.

> > > >

> > > > Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister

> jumping,

> > > > yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana Aarti???

> > > >

> > > > "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

> > > >

> > > > Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting more

> > > > shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some

> realities

> > > > I've observed.

> > > >

> > > > Mukund

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > > > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by

> birth,

> > > and

> > > > > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be

> shot

> > > > > down :-) Allow me ...

> > > > >

> > > > > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma Gyana

> > > > > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the

> treasure

> > > of

> > > > > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > > > >

> > > > > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-Indians?

> > > Well,

> > > > > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

> > > times ...

> > > > > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan,

> > > Burma

> > > > > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

> > > extended,

> > > > > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been

part

> of

> > > it,

> > > > > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils to

> > God.

> > > I

> > > > > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from godman

> to

> > > > > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me God?

> > Only

> > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple "Yes",

> and

> > > > hence

> > > > > he was his disciple for life.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be taught

> by

> > a

> > > > > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not only

> > > teaches

> > > > > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also

transfers

> > > some

> > > > of

> > > > > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is

> this

> > > power

> > > > > that makes the difference.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than a

> > > Deeksha

> > > > > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying

to

> > > learn

> > > > > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on

> > Mantras,

> > > > not

> > > > > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you

are

> > > trying

> > > > > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc.

> These

> > > are

> > > > > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak, and

> you

> > > go

> > > > > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born,

not

> > > > > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born with

> the

> > > > > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help others

> etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-). No

> > > offence

> > > > > intended!

> > > > >

> > > > > Venkatarama

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > > <monmuk111>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the

> > > Bagalmukhi

> > > > > and

> > > > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the internet

> and

> > > in

> > > > a

> > > > > > variety of books.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS A

> > GURU?

> > > > > There

> > > > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus who

> can

> > > > > hardly

> > > > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs) they

> sing

> > > > > sound

> > > > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. -- And

> all

> > > of

> > > > > these

> > > > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit

> mantras

> > > or

> > > > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and

> > Telugu

> > > > the

> > > > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a matter

> of

> > > > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous

> > sounds

> > > > > these

> > > > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the other

> > hand,

> > > > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots of

> > other

> > > > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil

> > > > > Varanashi,

> > > > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations should

> be

> > > > > ACCURATE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in today's

> > India

> > > > > Gurus

> > > > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

> > > Royces),

> > > > > but

> > > > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and mantra-

> > > shastra

> > > > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > > > > Maharastrian

> > > > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his

> > > tounge.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by

> hand),

> > > > also

> > > > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as

> > > claimed

> > > > by

> > > > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many Maharastrian

> > > Brahmins

> > > > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India I

> > > haven't

> > > > > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-shastra

> and

> > > > > Vedic

> > > > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board

> don't

> > > know

> > > > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on this

> > > board

> > > > > who

> > > > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING on

> the

> > > tip

> > > > > of

> > > > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the Mantras

> OR a

> > > > REAL

> > > > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since childhood)

> in

> > > > > learning

> > > > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-

Shastra?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one find

a

> > > Guru?--

> > > > > a

> > > > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down) is

> > that

> > > a

> > > > > Guru

> > > > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru

has

> to

> > > be

> > > > a

> > > > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e.

> > > > > strict

> > > > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not EVER

> > > > > indulging

> > > > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas,

> > > follows a

> > > > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most importantly

> > > > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER

> PROFIT

> > > from

> > > > > his

> > > > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL

> GURUS

> > > in

> > > > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect

> > > grains,

> > > > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these

> > donations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would

ONLY

> > > find

> > > > > such

> > > > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way

of

> > > life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > > Mukund

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > > > > <nameisego>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other

> > Shakti

> > > > > must

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja

vidhans

> > are

> > > > > > > dangerous.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one

> can

> > > help

> > > > > me

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa

> > bagalamukhi.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Reghu

##### Share on other sites

Dear Mukund!

I don't know if I should be amused or offended!! Let me try

amusement :-). In my opinion, what you have written is totally

sexist, and I disagree completely with it. That's fine, though, it's

your opinion, and you are entitled to it, and I am entitled to mine.

Yes, Lord Shiva is Nataraaja, but Godess Saraswati is the diety of

all arts including singing, dancing etc. I cannot think of a better

use for any of these arts than to offer them back to the Lord that

gave them to us, as Geetopachara, Nrityopachara etc. And if that gift

is expressed as spontaneous rapture, so be it! The worshipper

probably does not care whether onlookers like his or her expression,

he or she is too engrossed in the divine to even notice.

Venkatarama

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

wrote:

> Dear Venkat:

>

> It may sound sexist, but it isn't.

>

> Men have been dancing since the time of Lord Shiva, remember his

> Tandav-Nrityu? So, Men are allowed to dance. AND, we have allowed

> women to dance during navratri (the nine nights of Goddess Durga),

> it's a festival of a female Goddess so we've made concessions and

> allowed our females to dance in joy and reverence to Durga-ma. But,

> random and occassionally VULGAR dancing during prayers is

> unexceptable.

>

> There is no mention in our scripture of women dancing except for

> Apsaras who weren't upto anything good--the Apsaras were concubines

> of Indra whom he used generously to distract the GREAT sages from

> their Tapsya. Have you ever heard of a non-Apsara, non-nritungna

> woman like Ansuya, Durga, Bhuvneshvari, etc. dance during

> Aarti/prayers.

>

> We all have our rights and duties.

>

> Women have a right and duty to clean, cook and bear children.

> Men have a right and duty to earn and protect his family and

property.

> Children have a right and duty to obey their parents until they

>

> Mukund

> vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Dear Mukund,

> >

> > I am not such a great person that I would question Meera Bai's

> > behavior :-). To me, what she did was much much much more sacred

> > than what a normal woman would do.

> >

> > Remember, the same Sree Krishna at the end of the same Bhagavat

> > Geeta you are quoting also said, "Sarva Dharmaan paritragya,

> > maamekam saranam vrajaa" (my sanskrit could be off, sorry),

> > meaning, "leave all dharmas alone, and surrender only to me".

This

> > is what Meera Bai did, and I only wish I had her conviction and

> > strength of character to disregard everything else, and follow

the

> > dear wonderful Child to my salvation.

> >

> > So, is this what this is about... you don't like the behavior of

> > some women who are converts to Hinduism? I don't see you

> complaining

> > about the men dancing and fainting, either the converts, or the

> > Hindu examples I gave in my posting. Excuse me, but this sounds

> > sexist.

> >

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> <monmuk111>

> > wrote:

> > > Hello Venkat:

> > >

> > > Very nice example of dancing Meera Bai. However, I'm not quite

> > > convinced that what Meera-Bai did was right.

> > >

> > > She abandoned her husband (a non-abusive husband)and went

around

> > > dancing in joy over Lord Krishna. By doing this, she failed in

> > > performing her DHARMA towards her legally wedded husband and

> > > committed a sin. This DHARMA was preached by Lord Krishna

himself

> > > that everyone should perform his/her DHARMA towards their

> parents,

> > > spouses, kids and society without any expectations in return.

> > >

> > > Did Meera-Bai ever think about her husband--what would he eat,

> how

> > > will he live if she abandoned him?

> > >

> > > I wonder how Lord Krishna would have reacted to her failing in

> her

> > > DHARMA towards her husband?

> > >

> > > Thinking in terms of karma and re-birth, Meera-Bai in her next

> > birth

> > > would have been married to an abusive husband who'd abandone

her

> > for

> > > another woman he adored to pay for her past-life sins.

> > >

> > > Also, Meera-Bai, due to her dancing ways was shunned by the

> > society

> > > and told drink poison. A dancing woman was unexceptable by the

> > > society then, similarly, the dancing "foreign" women are

> > unexceptable

> > > now.

> > >

> > > Thank God, the real Hindu women are upholding their real Hindu

> > > virtues and upbringing and not yelling, screaming and

collapsing

> > > while praying to Satyanaraya.

> > >

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > > Meera Bai is the first example that comes to

> > mind.... "shamelessly"

> > > > dancing in the streets in escatacy over Krishna

> > > > Chaitanya Mahaa Prabhu / Gouranga, the Guru of many...

> > > > Sant Tukaaram (incidentally from Maharastra) is said to have

> > been

> > > so

> > > > carried away with dancing and singing Ranganaatha's name that

> he

> > > did

> > > > not even notice that he was trampling his own baby!

> > > > Annamaacharya, the Telugu musician and devotee sang and

danced

> > in

> > > > the streets in praise of Lord Venkateswara, as part of his

> > > > Bikshaatana

> > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was called a madman by the priests in

> > the

> > > > Kali temple for his crying for days on end, in front of the

> > Mother,

> > > > begging to catch a glimpse of her....

> > > >

> > > > Hinduism has many shining examples of devotees that "made a

> fool

> > of

> > > > themselves". It also has a lot of examples of the serene,

> > > > intelligent and calm Acharyas, like Adi Shankaraacharya etc.

> Who

> > > can

> > > > say one kind is better than the other? Each of us has our own

> > way

> > > to

> > > > reach the Divine, based on our natural inclinations.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > > Venkatarama

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > <monmuk111>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Hello Venkatrama:

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and

the

> > > > South

> > > > > as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable

and

> > even

> > > > > today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

> > > > >

> > > > > By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. --

> > There

> > > > is

> > > > > an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and

> > > > Hindus.

> > > > > I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship

> > along

> > > > > with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in

> > ridiculous

> > > > ways--

> > > > > MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on

the

> > > floor

> > > > > and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of

> > Lord

> > > > > Krishna.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE"

Hindu

> > > women

> > > > > were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I

> > > > considered

> > > > > calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the

> > BORN

> > > > > Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the

> > police.--

> > > > > These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention

the

> > sex

> > > > and

> > > > > child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in

some

> > time

> > > > > back.

> > > > >

> > > > > Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister

> > jumping,

> > > > > yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana

Aarti???

> > > > >

> > > > > "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting

more

> > > > > shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some

> > realities

> > > > > I've observed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mukund

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic-

astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > > > > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by

> > birth,

> > > > and

> > > > > > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be

> > shot

> > > > > > down :-) Allow me ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma

Gyana

> > > > > > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the

> > treasure

> > > > of

> > > > > > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-

Indians?

> > > > Well,

> > > > > > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

> > > > times ...

> > > > > > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan,

> > > > Burma

> > > > > > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

> > > > extended,

> > > > > > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been

> part

> > of

> > > > it,

> > > > > > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils

to

> > > God.

> > > > I

> > > > > > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from

godman

> > to

> > > > > > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me

God?

> > > Only

> > > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a

simple "Yes",

> > and

> > > > > hence

> > > > > > he was his disciple for life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be

taught

> > by

> > > a

> > > > > > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not

only

> > > > teaches

> > > > > > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also

> transfers

> > > > some

> > > > > of

> > > > > > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is

> > this

> > > > power

> > > > > > that makes the difference.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than

a

> > > > Deeksha

> > > > > > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying

> to

> > > > learn

> > > > > > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on

> > > Mantras,

> > > > > not

> > > > > > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you

> are

> > > > trying

> > > > > > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc.

> > These

> > > > are

> > > > > > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak,

and

> > you

> > > > go

> > > > > > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born,

> not

> > > > > > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born

with

> > the

> > > > > > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help

others

> > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-).

No

> > > > offence

> > > > > > intended!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Venkatarama

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > > > <monmuk111>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the

> > > > Bagalmukhi

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the

internet

> > and

> > > > in

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > variety of books.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS

A

> > > GURU?

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus

who

> > can

> > > > > > hardly

> > > > > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs)

they

> > sing

> > > > > > sound

> > > > > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. --

And

> > all

> > > > of

> > > > > > these

> > > > > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit

> > mantras

> > > > or

> > > > > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and

> > > Telugu

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a

matter

> > of

> > > > > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous

> > > sounds

> > > > > > these

> > > > > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the

other

> > > hand,

> > > > > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots

of

> > > other

> > > > > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil

> > > > > > Varanashi,

> > > > > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations

should

> > be

> > > > > > ACCURATE.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in

today's

> > > India

> > > > > > Gurus

> > > > > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

> > > > Royces),

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and

mantra-

> > > > shastra

> > > > > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > > > > > Maharastrian

> > > > > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his

> > > > tounge.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by

> > hand),

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as

> > > > claimed

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many

Maharastrian

> > > > Brahmins

> > > > > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India

I

> > > > haven't

> > > > > > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-

shastra

> > and

> > > > > > Vedic

> > > > > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board

> > don't

> > > > know

> > > > > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on

this

> > > > board

> > > > > > who

> > > > > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING

on

> > the

> > > > tip

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the

Mantras

> > OR a

> > > > > REAL

> > > > > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since

childhood)

> > in

> > > > > > learning

> > > > > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-

> Shastra?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one

find

> a

> > > > Guru?--

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down)

is

> > > that

> > > > a

> > > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru

> has

> > to

> > > > be

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e.

> > > > > > strict

> > > > > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not

EVER

> > > > > > indulging

> > > > > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas,

> > > > follows a

> > > > > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most

importantly

> > > > follow a

> > > > > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER

> > PROFIT

> > > > from

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL

> > GURUS

> > > > in

> > > > > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect

> > > > grains,

> > > > > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these

> > > donations.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would

> ONLY

> > > > find

> > > > > > such

> > > > > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way

> of

> > > > life.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > > > Mukund

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > > > > > <nameisego>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other

> > > Shakti

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja

> vidhans

> > > are

> > > > > > > > dangerous.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one

> > can

> > > > help

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa

> > > bagalamukhi.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Reghu

##### Share on other sites

Dear Mukund

This is not the age of samples. The world is much bigger than you

know. If you have seen a few guys doing things which are offensive to

your senses, doesnot mean that you have to become a moral police of

what is right and what is wrong.

I am born in a brahmin family of Andhrapradesh with extremely

conservative values. The way food is served, the way things are done

are probably the most conservative, Strict rituals, poojas etc. But

thankfully, i was never forced to beleive in the things that you are

saying.

I dined in christians and moslem brother houses, due to one positive

factor. The fact that i lived in multi-ethnic townships. Luckily i

became a rebel with a cause, and went ahead and made friends with one

and all. If today i am able to read charts of a latino, an american,

a Swiss or a newzealander, is basically due to the broad outlook of

our essential hindu philosophy of (Vasudeva Kutumbakam)unvieral

brotherhood.

Now who should do poojas, who should do what is none of your, or even

dances, and what you feel about the dance is also not part of vedic

astrology, nor does it warrant lengthy discussions on this forum.

And stop making statements which are racist and Sexist, this is not

the place to make such comments, you have any such feelings send them

to the personal id, and not on list of 1800 members. The last few

months saw great discussions, but also too much of personal attacks,

so i request you to refrain from this. This is a humble request.

best wishes

partha

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

wrote:

> Dear Venkat:

>

> It may sound sexist, but it isn't.

>

> Men have been dancing since the time of Lord Shiva, remember his

> Tandav-Nrityu? So, Men are allowed to dance. AND, we have allowed

> women to dance during navratri (the nine nights of Goddess Durga),

> it's a festival of a female Goddess so we've made concessions and

> allowed our females to dance in joy and reverence to Durga-ma. But,

> random and occassionally VULGAR dancing during prayers is

> unexceptable.

>

> There is no mention in our scripture of women dancing except for

> Apsaras who weren't upto anything good--the Apsaras were concubines

> of Indra whom he used generously to distract the GREAT sages from

> their Tapsya. Have you ever heard of a non-Apsara, non-nritungna

> woman like Ansuya, Durga, Bhuvneshvari, etc. dance during

> Aarti/prayers.

>

> We all have our rights and duties.

>

> Women have a right and duty to clean, cook and bear children.

> Men have a right and duty to earn and protect his family and

property.

> Children have a right and duty to obey their parents until they

>

> Mukund

> vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Dear Mukund,

> >

> > I am not such a great person that I would question Meera Bai's

> > behavior :-). To me, what she did was much much much more sacred

> > than what a normal woman would do.

> >

> > Remember, the same Sree Krishna at the end of the same Bhagavat

> > Geeta you are quoting also said, "Sarva Dharmaan paritragya,

> > maamekam saranam vrajaa" (my sanskrit could be off, sorry),

> > meaning, "leave all dharmas alone, and surrender only to me".

This

> > is what Meera Bai did, and I only wish I had her conviction and

> > strength of character to disregard everything else, and follow

the

> > dear wonderful Child to my salvation.

> >

> > So, is this what this is about... you don't like the behavior of

> > some women who are converts to Hinduism? I don't see you

> complaining

> > about the men dancing and fainting, either the converts, or the

> > Hindu examples I gave in my posting. Excuse me, but this sounds

> > sexist.

> >

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> <monmuk111>

> > wrote:

> > > Hello Venkat:

> > >

> > > Very nice example of dancing Meera Bai. However, I'm not quite

> > > convinced that what Meera-Bai did was right.

> > >

> > > She abandoned her husband (a non-abusive husband)and went

around

> > > dancing in joy over Lord Krishna. By doing this, she failed in

> > > performing her DHARMA towards her legally wedded husband and

> > > committed a sin. This DHARMA was preached by Lord Krishna

himself

> > > that everyone should perform his/her DHARMA towards their

> parents,

> > > spouses, kids and society without any expectations in return.

> > >

> > > Did Meera-Bai ever think about her husband--what would he eat,

> how

> > > will he live if she abandoned him?

> > >

> > > I wonder how Lord Krishna would have reacted to her failing in

> her

> > > DHARMA towards her husband?

> > >

> > > Thinking in terms of karma and re-birth, Meera-Bai in her next

> > birth

> > > would have been married to an abusive husband who'd abandone

her

> > for

> > > another woman he adored to pay for her past-life sins.

> > >

> > > Also, Meera-Bai, due to her dancing ways was shunned by the

> > society

> > > and told drink poison. A dancing woman was unexceptable by the

> > > society then, similarly, the dancing "foreign" women are

> > unexceptable

> > > now.

> > >

> > > Thank God, the real Hindu women are upholding their real Hindu

> > > virtues and upbringing and not yelling, screaming and

collapsing

> > > while praying to Satyanaraya.

> > >

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > > Meera Bai is the first example that comes to

> > mind.... "shamelessly"

> > > > dancing in the streets in escatacy over Krishna

> > > > Chaitanya Mahaa Prabhu / Gouranga, the Guru of many...

> > > > Sant Tukaaram (incidentally from Maharastra) is said to have

> > been

> > > so

> > > > carried away with dancing and singing Ranganaatha's name that

> he

> > > did

> > > > not even notice that he was trampling his own baby!

> > > > Annamaacharya, the Telugu musician and devotee sang and

danced

> > in

> > > > the streets in praise of Lord Venkateswara, as part of his

> > > > Bikshaatana

> > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was called a madman by the priests in

> > the

> > > > Kali temple for his crying for days on end, in front of the

> > Mother,

> > > > begging to catch a glimpse of her....

> > > >

> > > > Hinduism has many shining examples of devotees that "made a

> fool

> > of

> > > > themselves". It also has a lot of examples of the serene,

> > > > intelligent and calm Acharyas, like Adi Shankaraacharya etc.

> Who

> > > can

> > > > say one kind is better than the other? Each of us has our own

> > way

> > > to

> > > > reach the Divine, based on our natural inclinations.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > > Venkatarama

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > <monmuk111>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Hello Venkatrama:

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm from Gujarat, but prefer Brahmins from Maharastra and

the

> > > > South

> > > > > as Brahmins from these areas are extremely knowledgeable

and

> > even

> > > > > today practice strict Brahminical way of life.

> > > > >

> > > > > By foreigners, I mean a person who is not born a Hindu. --

> > There

> > > > is

> > > > > an obvious and OVERT difference between BORN Hindus and

> > > > Hindus.

> > > > > I used to visit a temple where a lot of MADE Hindus worship

> > along

> > > > > with BORN Hindus and these MADE Hindus act/behave in

> > ridiculous

> > > > ways--

> > > > > MADE Hindu women jumping up and down and falling down on

the

> > > floor

> > > > > and yelling and screaming during Aarti (devotional song) of

> > Lord

> > > > > Krishna.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm convinced these dancing, yelling, screaming "MADE"

Hindu

> > > women

> > > > > were high on Esctacy or PCP or some other narcotic and I

> > > > considered

> > > > > calling the police, but I would have ended up maligning the

> > BORN

> > > > > Hindus along with these MADE Hindus so I didn't call the

> > police.--

> > > > > These MADE Hindus are outright offensive, not to mention

the

> > sex

> > > > and

> > > > > child-abuse scandals these MADE Hindus were involved in

some

> > time

> > > > > back.

> > > > >

> > > > > Could you/any BORN Hindu imagine your mother and sister

> > jumping,

> > > > > yelling, screaming and collapsing during Satyanarana

Aarti???

> > > > >

> > > > > "Sastry"--A nice Brahmin last name.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ya, you've attempted to shoot me down and I'm expecting

more

> > > > > shelling, but I won't shy away from speaking about some

> > realities

> > > > > I've observed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mukund

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic-

astrology, "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > > > > Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a Hindu by

> > birth,

> > > > and

> > > > > > that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going to be

> > shot

> > > > > > down :-) Allow me ...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say "Brahma

Gyana

> > > > > > sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has the

> > treasure

> > > > of

> > > > > > Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway? Non-

Indians?

> > > > Well,

> > > > > > India today is very different from the India of the Vedic

> > > > times ...

> > > > > > it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan,

> > > > Burma

> > > > > > etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far South it

> > > > extended,

> > > > > > which means that your Maharastra may not have even been

> part

> > of

> > > > it,

> > > > > > and probably not my Andhra either. :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his pupils

to

> > > God.

> > > > I

> > > > > > remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went from

godman

> > to

> > > > > > godman, asking them the same question, can you show me

God?

> > > Only

> > > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a

simple "Yes",

> > and

> > > > > hence

> > > > > > he was his disciple for life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have my questions about whether mantras need to be

taught

> > by

> > > a

> > > > > > Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru not

only

> > > > teaches

> > > > > > the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also

> transfers

> > > > some

> > > > > of

> > > > > > His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process. It is

> > this

> > > > power

> > > > > > that makes the difference.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather than

a

> > > > Deeksha

> > > > > > Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just trying

> to

> > > > learn

> > > > > > to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an expert on

> > > Mantras,

> > > > > not

> > > > > > a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and if you

> are

> > > > trying

> > > > > > to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer etc.

> > These

> > > > are

> > > > > > all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to speak,

and

> > you

> > > > go

> > > > > > to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be born,

> not

> > > > > > but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be born

with

> > the

> > > > > > sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help

others

> > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like :-).

No

> > > > offence

> > > > > > intended!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Venkatarama

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > > > <monmuk111>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when the

> > > > Bagalmukhi

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the

internet

> > and

> > > > in

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > variety of books.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above? WHO IS

A

> > > GURU?

> > > > > > There

> > > > > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be Gurus

who

> > can

> > > > > > hardly

> > > > > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional songs)

they

> > sing

> > > > > > sound

> > > > > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a Hindu. --

And

> > all

> > > > of

> > > > > > these

> > > > > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra, Shanskrit

> > mantras

> > > > or

> > > > > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR Marathi and

> > > Telugu

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not a

matter

> > of

> > > > > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any ridiculous

> > > sounds

> > > > > > these

> > > > > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK. On the

other

> > > hand,

> > > > > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and lots

of

> > > other

> > > > > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat, Tamil

> > > > > > Varanashi,

> > > > > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the prononciations

should

> > be

> > > > > > ACCURATE.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in

today's

> > > India

> > > > > > Gurus

> > > > > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets and Roll-

> > > > Royces),

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals and

mantra-

> > > > shastra

> > > > > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is an older

> > > > > > Maharastrian

> > > > > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip of his

> > > > tounge.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts (constructed by

> > hand),

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family secret as

> > > > claimed

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many

Maharastrian

> > > > Brahmins

> > > > > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of India

I

> > > > haven't

> > > > > > > visited), and knows many more things about Mantra-

shastra

> > and

> > > > > > Vedic

> > > > > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this board

> > don't

> > > > know

> > > > > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some guy on

this

> > > > board

> > > > > > who

> > > > > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows ANYTHING

on

> > the

> > > > tip

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the

Mantras

> > OR a

> > > > > REAL

> > > > > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since

childhood)

> > in

> > > > > > learning

> > > > > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the Hora-

> Shastra?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does one

find

> a

> > > > Guru?--

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot down)

is

> > > that

> > > > a

> > > > > > Guru

> > > > > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE. A Guru

> has

> > to

> > > > be

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living, i.e.

> > > > > > strict

> > > > > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food, not

EVER

> > > > > > indulging

> > > > > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of Poojas,

> > > > follows a

> > > > > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most

importantly

> > > > follow a

> > > > > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER EVER

> > PROFIT

> > > > from

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and most REAL

> > GURUS

> > > > in

> > > > > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and collect

> > > > grains,

> > > > > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off these

> > > donations.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one would

> ONLY

> > > > find

> > > > > > such

> > > > > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and Brahminic way

> of

> > > > life.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > > > Mukund

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> > > > > > <nameisego>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or any other

> > > Shakti

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful pooja

> vidhans

> > > are

> > > > > > > > dangerous.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "france12in"

> > > > > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if some one

> > can

> > > > help

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of Maa

> > > bagalamukhi.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Reghu

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Mr. mukunda,

Your remarks are sexist, racist and extremist.

Dharma and society rules are not absolute rules but they are relative to the needs of time. Means these rules are artificial and are created by humans.

Meera bai's story highlights devotion and her will to walk the path of trouble for love of God. This is called relegious fanatism under which you go to such extreme to question Mira bai herself. She was given poison. Did she die of poison ? No she was said to be rescued by lord Krishna. So lord krishna rescued someone who did not follow the path of karma? You know how she left this world ? She disappeared in lords Murty itself in Vrindavan.

But you say she abondoned her duty towards her husband and if you are not a racist than accept that Shri RamKrishn Paramhans, Vivekanand and all the men who renounced the world for God have abondoned their duty and they should reborn and get back their 'karma'.

You could see the realities of 'foreign' woman dancing. There are some more realities like some 'born' hindu brahmin pujari involved in sex scandles and child abuse. I am sure I need not give example you can find plenty if u want to.

A Brahmin is Brahmin by his karma not by birth. You should revise your definitions of dharma.

I would recommand a book to you 'Riddles in hinduism' by the founder of the largest constituion in this world Dr. Bhimrao Ambedkar. Though I suspect you will be able to grasp the main idea of that book because these definition of dharma engraved in your mind are result of years built up psychology.

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