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HARVARD
COLLEGE
LIBRARY

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS

IN THE UNITED STATES

PART 4

....u i>t THE
• ATES GOVERNMENi

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

FEBRUARY 1-fc AND 7-11, 1966
(INDEX IN SEPARATE VOLUME)

Printed for the use of the
Committee on Un-American Activities

CONTENTS

February 1, 1966: Testimony of— Page

Vincent Travis Purser 2901

Deavours Nix 2904

Sam H olloway Bowers, Jr 2908

Afternoon session:

Ernest S. Gilbert, Jr 2942

Joseph Carlton Brown 2951

February 2, 1966: Testimony of—

John Emmett Thornhill, Sr 2956

John Dawson 2982

February 3, 1966: Testimony of—

Charles Melvin Stewart 2994

Paul Lafayette Foster 2998

Ernest Buchanan Parker 3005

Myron Wayne (Jack) Seale 3009

Afternoon session:

Ernest Henry Avants 3016

Paul Dewey Wilson 3019

Jimmy Prinston Wilson 3028

Murphy John Duncan, Jr 3031

Emery Allen Lee 3037

L. C. Murray 3042

Edward Lenox McDaniel 3044

February 4, 1966: Testimony of —

Robert Sidney Thomas 3058

Herbert Thomas 3066

Ronald Jefferson Tidwell 3068

Rayford Jackson Martin 3073

Wilson Hood 3076

Myrtie Eugene Stephens 3078

Herbert Eugene Reeves 3084

February 7, 1966: Testimony of —

James W. McCroskey 3092

Robert N. Washington 3 02

James R. Whitefield 3106

Afternoon session :

William P. Whitefield, Jr 3116

Johnnie Lee Burnette 3J2Z

Donald Andrew Smitherman ^|^^

Curtis O'Neil Doles, Sr 3129

Eugene Curtis Vann, Jr ^{^^

Sylvester Trawick 31^^

Charles Jerry Wilkinson ^|*^

Lewis Edward Perkins 3l4b

February 8, 1966: Testimony of—

William Otto Perkins l^j^?

Fredrick Gerald Smith '^]^\

William Melvin Sexton 3W4

Ralph Ray Roton 318/

Afternoon session : „.

Ralph Ray Roton (resumed) •^^"'*

111

IV CONTENTS

February 9, 1966: Testimony of — Page

Ralph Ray Roton (resumed) 3224

Robert Milton Creel 3240

Afternoon session:

Ralph Earl Pryor, Jr 3265

Robert Milton Creel (resumed) 3267

Ralph Earl Pryor, Jr. (resumed) 3303

February 10, 1966: Testimony of—

Ralph Earl Pryor, Jr. (resumed) 3312

Roy Everett Frankhouser, Jr 3342

Donald W. Swartz 3363

Bobby J. Stephens 3369

Afternoon session:

Bobby J. Stephens (resumed) 3370

February 11, 1966: Testimony of—

Bobby J. Stephens (resumed) 3410

Daniel N. Wagner 3424

Afternoon session:

VerlinU. Gilliam 3445

Jim Harris 3455

Robert W. Annable 3460

Parkie Scott 3468

Flynn R. Harvey 3478

Index in separate volume.

Public Law 601, 79th Congress

Tlie legislation under which the House Ckjmmittee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946] ; 60 Stat.
812, which provides :

Be it'cnaoted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Rule X

SEC. 121. STANDNG COMMITTEES
* ******

17. Gommittee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
Rule XI

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES

»♦♦**«*

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.

(A) Un-American activities.

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcom-
mittee, is authorized to malie from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in^the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and at-
tacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution,
and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any
necessary remedial legislation.

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.

For the purpose of anj such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.

Rule XII

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTE^ES

Sec 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces-
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris-
diction of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent
reports and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive
branch of the Government.

v

VI

RULES ADOPTED BY THE 89TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 8, January 4, 1965

* if * * * * *

Rule X

STANDING COMMITTEES

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress,

*«****♦

(r) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
*******

Rule XI

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES

18. Committee on Un-American Activities.

(a) Un-American activities.

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcom-
mittee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the
extent, character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the
United States, (2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and
un-American propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a do-
mestic origin and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed
by our Constitution, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would
aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation.

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in .session) the results of any such
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of .such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.

27. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the sub-
ject matter of which is within the juri.sdiction of such committee ; and, for that
purpose, shall .study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE UNITED STATES

Part 4

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 1966

United States House of Representatives,

Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington, D.C.
public hearings

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as
reconstituted for the February 1 hearings, met, pursuant to recess,
at 10:30 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building,
Washington, D.C, Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman) presiding.

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of Lou-
isiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; and John H. Buchanan, Jr.,
of Alabama.)

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and
Buchanan.

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator; and Philip R, Manuel, investigator.

The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.

As chairman of the full Committee on Un-American Activities, I
hereby constitute for the purposes of today's hearing a special sub-
committee of three, composed of the following: myself as chairman,
Mr. Buchanan, and Mr. Pool. That means that two will constitute a
quorum.

Mr. Appell, call your first witness.

Mr. Appell. Vincent Travis Purser.

The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Purser. I do.

TESTIMONY OF VINCENT TRAVIS PURSER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, CHARLES 0. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY

Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record ?
Mr. Purser. Vincent Tra\ds Purser.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today, Mr. Purser, in accord-
ance with a subpena

Mr. Purser. Yes, sir.

2901

2902 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. — which was delivered to your residence at 4 p.m., the
29th day of December 1965 at Route 1, Box 250, Duckworth Road,
Gulf port. Miss. ?

Mr. Purser. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Purser. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel please indentify themselves for the
record ?

Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law, Laurel,
Mississippi.

Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs,
Mississippi.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Purser, when and where were you born ?

Mr. Purser. I was born December 8, 1905, Hazlehurst, Mississippi.

Mr. Appell, Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?

Mr. Purser. I finished high school at Copiah-Lincoln Agricultural
High School, western Mississippi, in 1923, and I had a business course
and I took a correspondence course with LaSalle Extension University.

Mr. Appell. What period of time have you served in the military ?

Mr. Purser. I served from, I believe it was, October 1942 through
September 1945. I was discharged and went back in, was out about
4 months during World War II.

Mr. Appell. Did you have a period of service 1925 to 1926 ?

Mr. Purser. Yes, I did. I had forgotten about that. About a year.

Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee the benefit of your em-
ployment background from i960 ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 14th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Appell. In 1962 did you retire as an employee of Sears, Roe-
buck and Company ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. From the period 1962 to date, did you receive income
from an organization known as the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Are you familiar with an attorney in Gulf port, Missis-
sippi, by the name of Knox Walker ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr, Appell. Did you and a group of Klansmen on approximately
November 8, 1965, call Knox Walker in the early hours of the morning
around 2 :30 and advise him that his boat had been cut loose and

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated

Mr, Appell. All right; answer that, I will break it down and stop
there.

Mr. Purser. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2903

Mr. Appell. Did you, when Mr. Walker amved at where his boat
was docked, meet him, together with four or five other men dressed in
Klan robes and advise him he was a "nigger lawyer" and he ought
to leave the area ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Do you currently handle funds of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Within the recent 2 months have two Klaverns of
the United Klans of America transferred their membership to the
White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the Gulf port-Pascagoula area ?

Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, 1 respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed privilege
and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the commit-
tee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Travis
Purser. Mr, Purser was born on December 8, 1905, at Hazlehurst,
Mississippi. Military sei*vice in the Army from July 17, 1925, to
November 10, 1926, from October 17, 1942, to April 23, 1943, and
from November 4, 1943, to September 5, 1945. He is a retired em-
ployee from Sears, Roebuck Company, from which employment he
retired in 1962. Mr. Purser joined the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan of Mississippi at Gulfport, Mississippi, in 1964. Beginning in
February 1965, he began attending State meetings of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan. On May 2, 1965, he attended a State meeting in
Pearl River County, Mississippi, at which meeting it was noted that
members of the White Knights would henceforth pay 65 cents per man
to the State treasury plus his local Klavern dues. In addition, each
bursar or treasurer was authorized to retain funds for emergency ex-
penditures. Cash on hand was reported by each district, with Tommy
Brock reporting $2,100; Vincent Purser$800; Dewitt Sandifer $350; Billy Buckles advising that Julius Harper, the Grand Dragon, had$400, and the Greenwood, Mississippi, Unit of the Wliite Knights
$1,000. On May 16, 1965, Imperial Wizard Bowers appointed Klansman Dillard as "Coordinator" for the Pearl River County area of the White Knights at the request of Vincent T. Purser. At meetings of Klaverns in the Gulfport. area, Klansmen received instruction in judo, received instruction in Molotov cocktails, and the use of syringe bottles filled with ammonia. On September 29, 1964, Purser and Ernest Gilbert, then the grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation, White Knights of Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, requested the State organization of the White Knights through Grand Dragon Julius Harper to either burn or stinkbomb the Mennonite School for Wayward Girls because it was being used by the COFO organization for a headquarters. On ap- proximately "November 8, 1965, Knox Walker, a Gulfport attorney who had represented NAACP and certain Gulfport Negroes, received an anonymous telephone call and was advised that his boat had been cut loose. When he arrived at the place where the boat was tied he found four or five men in Klan robes, with Vincent T. Purser acting 2904 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. as the leader. Purser told Walker he was a "nigger lawyer" and he had better leave the area. Tw^o United Klans of American Klaverns have recently transferred to the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the Gulfport-Pascagoula area. Mr. Chairman, this information indicates that Mr. Purser possesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the CJongress in the enactment of remedial legislation. The Chairman. Mr. Purser, you have heard the sworn statement of the committee's investigator. You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that statement, confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information, or explain any part of it. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any matters the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity ? Mr. Purser. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Then, sir, I must inform you that, in the absence of a rebuttal from you or other facts that may come to the attention of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation. Bearing this in mind, do you have anything to stay? Mr. Purser. No, sir. The Chairman. You don't ? Mr. Purser. No, sir. The Chairman. Is that all, Mr. Appell ? Mr. Appell. The staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call the next witness. Mr. Appell. I would like to call Mr. Deavours Nix. The Chairman. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Nix. I do. TESTIMONY OF DEAVOURS NIX, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record. Mr. Nix. Deavours Nix. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with subpena served upon you at 116 Teresa Street, Laurel, Mississippi, on the 29th day of November 1965 by John D. Sullivan, investigator of this committee ? Mr. Nix. That is correct. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Nix. I am. Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record ? Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law. Laurel, Mississippi. Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, Bay Springs, Mississippi. Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Nix ? Mr. Nix. I was bom in Jones County, Mississippi, November 30, 1925. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2905 Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your educational background ? Mr. Nix. I finished the eighth grade, Calhoun High School, Jones County, Mississippi, then entered the service October 3, 1941. Upon being discharged February 5, 1947, 1 attended GI school, the same Cal- houn High School, and lacked three units of finishing high school. Mr. Appell. Mr. Nix, while a member of the service, what branch of the service were you in ? Mr. Nix. The United States Navy. Mr. Appell. During your period of service in the United States Navy, were you subject to several courts-martial^ Mr. Nix. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and in- voke as a defense the privileges guaranteed me by the 5th, 1st, and 14th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to answer that question. He admitted he was in the service and gave the periods of enlistment. The Chairman. I am not going to direct him to answer that ques- tion. I don't think it would add materially to the record. Mr. Appell. Mr. Nix, will you give the committee a resume of your employment background from 1960 ? Mr. Buckley. From 1960 forward or back ? Mr. Appell. Forward. Mr. Nix. Beginning the year 1960, I was working for a drilling contractor by the name of Gulf Coast Drilling and Exploration, Laurel, Mississippi. The year 1962 I went in business for myself in a place by the name of Nub's Steak House, Laurel, Mississippi. I was a failure in that business so far as making a living is concerned. From there I went to Los Angeles, California, was employed by Southern California Heat Treat as salesman and general manager for a period of 17 months, returned to Laurel, Mississippi, and now I am self-em- ployed, John's Kestaurant. The Chairman. What town ? Mr. Nix. Laurel, Mississippi. Mr. Appell. In addition to the employment that you have enumer- ated, have you had any other sources of income ? Mr. Nix. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Wliat are the other sources of income you have had, sir? Mr. Nix. If you call it income, I received some money from insur- ance companies at different times. Tlie Chairman. For injury? Mr. Nix. Accident. Mr. Appell. Recovery of claims ? Mr. Nix. Right. Mr. Appell. Do you have any other source of income ? Mr. Nix. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Do you receive any compensation from an organiza- tion known as the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ? Mr.' Nix. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Do you know Sam H. Bowers ? Mr. Nix. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and in- voke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and 14th amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. 2906 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. On June 27, 1965, were you elected to the position of grand director, Klan Bureau of Investigation, White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ? Mr. Nix. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully declinje to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Mr. Nix, a review of an arrest record involving yourself reflects that on September 2, 1962, May 19, 1964, July 13, 1965, and August 14, 1965, you were arrested on charges of assault. The last two arrests were after you were elected to the position of grand director, Klan Bureau of Investigation, Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. Were the acts for which you were arrested acts carried out in your position as grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation ? Mr. Nix. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. I put to you as a fact, and ask you to confirm or deny the fact, that at a meeting on June 27, 1965, near Greenwood, Missis- sippi you were elected grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investiga- tion, Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ? Mr. Nix, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, 1 respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that at that same meeting instructions were issued to the 34 Klavems represented at that meeting that each Klavern should bum two crosses on July 1, 1965 ? Mr. Nix, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question, Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that at a meeting held on Jul^ 18, 1965, south of Jackson, Mississippi, Imperial Wizard Bowers claimed that the White Knights were responsible for over 16 burnings of buildings in Laurel, Mississippi, Mr. Nix. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell, As the grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investi- gation, what role did you play in any of these burnings? Mr, Nix, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de- cline to answer that question, Mr. Appell, Mr. Nix, have you filed charges against agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, claiming they used profanity in questioning you ? The CHAiRMAisr. What was that question ? Mr. Appell. If he has filed charges against agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, charging that they used profanity in ques- tioning Mr, Nix, Mr, Nix, Sir, for reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr, Appell. Is it your claim that the agents of the FBI have called you a yellow-bellied Klansman ? Mr. Nix, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de- cline to answer that question, Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed privi- lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr, Nix, ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2907 Mr. Nix is the grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation. White Knights of Ku Khix Klan, Mississippi : is responsible for the gathering of intelligence information upon which Klan projects are carried out on the State level, or which must have the approval of the Imperial Wizard before they may be executed. Deavours Nix, the owner of John's Restaurant m Laurel, Mississippi, conducts business of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in his restaurant. He was elected grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation at a State meeting held near Greenwood, Mississippi, on June 27, 1965, at which representatives of 34 White Knights Klavems were present. During this meeting, instructions were given to the representatives of these Klavems that each Klavern should burn two crosses on July 1, 1965. Five hundred dollars was voted for the Klansman in Bogalusa, Louisiana, who was arrested for killing one and wounding a second Negro deputy sheriff. One July 11, 1965, Nix attended a meeting at King Edward's Hotel in Jackson, Mississippi. At this meeting Im- perial Wizard Bowers instructed that a job or project be carried out in each province in order to spread agents of the FBI real thin over the State. The Chairman. In order to do what ? Mr. Appell. To spread the agents of the FBI real thin over the State. Bowers reported that Billy Birdsong had been beaten because he had given Bowers more trouble than any other Klansman. On July 18, 1965, at a meeting south of Jackson, Mississippi The Chairman. Who reported that Birdsong had been beaten? Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, the Imperial Wizard. On July 18, 1965, at the meetnig south of Jackson, Mississippi, Deavours Nix shook everyone down for "bugs'' or electronic devices. Bowers referred to Laurel, Mississippi, as the "smokestack city," claiming that the White Knights were responsible for over 16 burn- ings of Laurel buildings. This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Nix possesses additional information which is both pertinent and material to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legislation. The Chairman. Mr. Nix, you have heard the sworn statement of Mr. Appell, the committee's chief investigator. You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that statement, to challenge or confirm the accuracy of the information, or to explain any part of the statement. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to avail yourself of this opportunity ? Mr. Nix, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de- cline to answer that question. The Chairman. I tell you, then, Mr. Nix, that absent your rebuttal or other facts that may come to the attention of the committee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation. In view of this, do you care to say anything? Mr. Nix. No, sir. Mr. Appell. The staff has no further questions of this witness, Mr Chairman. The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call your next witness. 2908 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Sam Holloway Bowers, Jr. ■ The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly I swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole I truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? I Mr. Bowers. I do, sir. i TESTIMONY OF SAM HOLLOWAY BOWERS, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, CHARLES G. BLACKWELL AND TRAVIS BUCKLEY Mr. Appell. Be seated, Mr. Bowers. Will you state your full name for the record ? Mr. Bowers. Sam H. Bowers, Jr. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with the subpena served upon you at 12 :20 o'clock a.m., the 26th da;;^ of Octo- ber 1965 by John D. Sullivan, an investigator for this committee? Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record ? Mr. Blackwell. Charles G. Blackwell, attorney at law. Laurel, Mississippi. Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, Bay Springs, Mississippi. Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom, Mr. Bowers ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and 6th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America. The Chairman. I order and direct you to answer that question. I can't imagine any reason to decline answering that question. It is preliminary and it is usual, and I order and direct you to answer it. Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. In answer to that question, I will say that I was bom on the 6th day of August 1924 in the city of New Orleans, Louisiana. The Chairman. New Orleans? Mr. Bowers. Yes. Mr. Appell. Will you give the committee a brief resume of your educational background ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st and 6th amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Give the committee a brief resume of your emplo3mient background. Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Do you know Robert H. Larson ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Are you co-owner with Mr. Robert H. Larson of the Sambo Amusement Company and the Magnolia Consolidated Realty Company ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. We have had evidence to that effect. So put it to him as a fact. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2909 Mr. Appell. I say to you, Mr. Bowers, that Mr. Larson appeared before the committee on January 10, 1966, and testified under oath that you and he were co-owners of the companies that I mentioned to you. Is his testimony before the committee truthful ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer the question. The Chairman. What is the name of the company ? Mr. Appell. The Sambo Amusement Company. The Chairman. They operate, among other things, what ? Mr. Appell. Pinball machines and vending machines of various types. The Chairman. Wliat is your information as to the system of op- eration of these machines, as to whether either above or under the counter they do or are capable of paying off, or can the players demand from the house cash money or coin ? Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the pinball machines operate whereby a player, if he obtains a certain score, is given what is recorded on the machine as a free play. However, as these free plays accumulate, the proprietor in whose store the machine is located will pay the player in cash for the number of games recorded at the rate of 5 cents per game. This money is then deducted from the take of the machine, and the proprietor and Mr. Larson and Mr. Bowers split that which is left over. The Chairman. Do you know whether under Federal law some kind of stamp tax payment is due, either payable out of general opera- tions per machine or in any other fashion ? Mr. Appell. Under Federal law, Mr. Chairman — and I am not too familiar with the exact requirements of that law— machines which are pinball or slot machines which are used for gambling purposes, the owners of the machine are required to purchase Federal gambling tax stamps. I think the rate is$50 per machine.

The Chairman. Do you pay any such stamp, Mr. Bowers ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Have your operations ever been checked by Federal
agents ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. My recollection is that one of the requisites of join-
ing the Klan within your realm is you must be sober, nongamblers,
and all the rest of it. Is that right ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, in the operation of the Sambo Amusement
Company, do you have vending machines and pinball machines in
establishments owned or operated by Negroes ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. In connection with the operation of the Magnolia
Consolidated Realty Company, do you own restaurants which are
leased to Negroes ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

2910 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. Have any attacks ever been made on the establishments
you own by members of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi by either bombings or burnings ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Were you aware of the fact your grand director of
the Klan Bureau of Investigation had told a certain lawyer that be-
cause he represented colored people that he should get out of town, or
words to that effect ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. From the questions that Mr. Appell has asked,
it would seem that you yourself were not so selective of your cus-
tomers. I make that as an observation. I suppose the information
sought to be solicited by Mr. Appell is correct.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, the subpena served upon you contains as
an attachment which was made a part of the subpena a listing of
documents which, under the terms of the subpena, you were com-
manded to bring with you and to produce before the committee.

One calls for you to produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, and aflBliated organizations,
namely, The White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund and the
Mississippi Constitutional Council, in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as the present or former Imperial Wizard
of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.

I request you to produce in your representative capacity stated
therein the documents called for in part 1 of your subpena.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records are not
in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not have

The Chairman. Have you ever had access to any Klan records ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Did you do away with any of the Klan records,
such as destroying them, hiding them, passing them on to third
parties, or any other circumstances of doing away with the records,
getting them out of your possession ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Your own constitution and bylaws require some
records to be kept. Do you mean to say you never saw any records,
had possession of any records ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Where are those records ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, prior to January 1, 1965, did you have in
your possession, custody, or control documents of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2911

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to ans^Yer that question.

Mr. Appell. On P"ebruai"y 1, 1965, did you have in your possession,
custody, or control, in your representative capacity as Imperial
Wizard, documents of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. I ask you the same question with respect to March 1.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. And what are those reasons previously stated that
you have repeated 10 or more times here ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, that reason previously stated, and I quote, is:
"Sir, I respectiully decline to answer that question and invoke as a
defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st, and 6th
amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America."

The Chairman. This subpena has been served upon you in your
capacity of top leadership and not necessarily or in fact as an indi-
vidual, Sam H. Bowers, I want to tell you that we don't reco^gnize
your invocation of refusal to produce those documents. It is in-
credible, inconceivable, outlandish that you can say you do not now
have, and never have, don't know of any records mvolving klanism
within your realm. I suppose the documents will be offered, the
records which you obviously handled yourself, or directives that you
personally issued. Is that correct, Mr. Appell, the documents you
refer to ?

Mr, Appell. The investigation will produce, Mr. Chairman, docu-
ments that were either prepared by, or distributed under, the direction
of Mr. Bowers as the Imperial Wizard.

I ask you now, Mr. Bowers, whether you had any of the docuraents
in your possession in vour representative capacity as Imperial Wizard
on April 1,1965?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. I now ask you with respect to May 1, 1965.

Mr, Bowers, Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Did you have any such records at any time since you
became Imperial Wizard ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell, Mr. Bowers, I now ask you whether you had any of
the documents in your representative capacity as Imperial Wizard on
June 1, 1965 ?

Mr, Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. I ask you the same question now with respect to
July 1.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr, Appell. I now ask you the same question with respect to
August 1.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 2

2912 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. I ask you the same question with respect to September
1, 1965.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. I ask you the same question with respect to October 1,
1965.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. I ask you the same question with respect to November
1, 1965.

Mr. Bowers. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. You had no documents in your possession on November
1,1965?

Mr. Bowers. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will you tell the committee as to what disposition
was made of documents in your possession between October 1, 1965, and
November 1, 1965 ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. You were served with a subpena on October 26, 1965.
Did you have any documents in your possession on that date ?

Mr. Bowers. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Between October 1, 1965, and October 26, 1965, did you
learn that the subpena for this committee was outstanding for your
appearance ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, part 2 of the subpena calls upon you to
produce :

AH books, records, documents, correspondence, memoranda appurtenances
and equipment in your possession, custody or control, maintained by or available
to you, in your capacity as Imperial Wizard of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organiza-
tion authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.

I request you to produce in your representative capacity stated
therein the documents called for in part 2 of your subpena.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, I could not produce such records as were ordered
by the subpena issued to me, due to the fact that such records are not
in my possession, custody, or control and I did not and do not have

Mr. Appell. Were the documents in your possession on October 1,
1965?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privileges guaranteed to me by the 5th, 1st,
and 6th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Appell. Were the documents in your possession on October 26,
the day that you were served with your subpena ?

Mr. Bowers. No, sir.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2913

Mr. Appell. Did you possess knowledge between October 1, 1965,
und October 26, 1965, that a siibpena was outstanding for you, call-
ing for your appearance before this committee ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer tliat question.

Mr. Appell. During this period of October 1 to October 26, did you
destroy or transfer to the custody of a second party documents called
for in the subpena ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
declme to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, I hand you a series of documents identi-
fied in the course of our investigation to be the products of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi which were either pre-
pared by yourself or distributed to members of the White Knights
with your approval. After you review those documents, Mr. Bowers,
I ask you whether or not these documents were so prepared.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, document No. 1 (Harold Delk Exhibit
No. 1) is captioned "Secrecy.'"' This document emphasizes that se-
crecy is the greatest asset which the Wliite Knights possesses to pro-
tect its militant nature. Thereafter instrudtions in secrecy are set forth
until its conclusion is set forth — that the highest essence of secrecy is
deliberate deception. As the Imperial Wizard of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, does the organization practice
deliberate deception ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowere, document No. 2 (Burrel White Exhibit
No. 2) is captioned "Executive Lecture of March 1, 1964." This doc-
lunent, after setting forth that the purpose and dedication of the White
Knights is the preservation of a Christian civilization, instinicts the
membership to have for ready reference and frequent, careful, and
prayerful reference a copy of the Holy Scriptures. Several paragraphs
infer that the White Knights look to Christ for its leadership. In the
introduction, the docmnent refers to the Wliite Knights as the Chris-
tian militants, disposed to use physical force against its enemies. Tlie
militant phase of the White Knights is then divided into security, in-
t.elligence, and propaganda. Under "security," members are instructed
in eliminating detection of their attendance at meetings, concealing
their membership, posing as anti-Klan or even anticonsen\ative, the
use of gloves to avoid fingerprint identification, the creation of an
infantry squad of eight well-armed Klansmen within each unit, and
with respect to the armament of the squad the document refere to the
fact that this squad should be equipped with blue ribbon weapons.

"Intelligence," according to the document, "consists of gathering
and transmission of all information concerning the enemy, or weak-
nesses or leaks" in the White Knights. The membership is then in-
structed in procedure to be followed by units and individuals pre-
liminary to undertaking that which the document describes as "mil-
itant activity."

In this connection, there is stated that the vote of the local unit con-
cerning the wishes of the local members regarding any militant activity

2914 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

must be transmitted through the office of the province investigator to

Conditioning against discouragement if action appears to be de-
layed, the section on intelligence concludes :

Hasty action will lead to either the bastille or the cemetary [sic]. Remember,
ALWAYS, we are in this war to WIN it, not just to FIGHT it.

Propaganda is given great emphasis and the reason is best explained
in the first three sentences under this subdivision :

PROPAGANDA is the weapon of modem war which our organization uses to
convince the public that we are all good, and that those who oppose us, or criti-
cise us, or attempt to interfere with our activities in any way are all BAD, and
are dangerous enemies of the Community. We must always keep the public on
our side. As long as they are on our side, we can just about do anything to our
enemies with impvmity.

Implements of propaganda are described as being as valuable as
bullets. Militant activity may not be accomplished by propaganda in
which case the document reads :

If our enemies can be humiliated and driven out of the Community by Propa-
ganda, well enough. If they continue to resist, they must be physically destroyed
before they can damage our Christian Civilization further, and destroy us. * * *

Do you have any comments to make upon the contents of that docu-
ment, sir?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Document No. 3 (Burrel White Exhibit No. 1) is Im-
perial Executive Order dated May 3, 1964. Did you issue or cause to
be issued that document, Mr. Bowers ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. AppEiiL. This document, Mr. Bowers, as you review it forecasts
situations likely to arise during the summer of 1964. It predicts mas-
sive demonstrations designed for the purpose of bringing about, as
stated in the report :

A decree from the Communist authorities in charge of the National Govern-
ment * * *.

What evidence do you possess of the Communist authorities that
are in charge of the National Government ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. This document devotes considerable space to militant
activity by Klansmen who are "legally — deputized law enforcement
officers." Combat plans are outlined and the Klansmen are warned to
expect conflicts with law enforcement officials. Emphasis of the Klans-
man's duty is set forth in a sentence which reads :

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2915

RESPECT FOR CHRISTIAN IDEALS CANNOT YIELD TO RESPECT FOR
PERSONS NOR STATUTES AND PROCEDURE WHICH HAVE BEEN
TWISTED BY MAN AWAY FROM ITS ORIGINAL DIVINE ORIGIN.

Do you have any comment to make upon that document, Mr. Bowers?

Mr. BowTiRs. bir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Document No. 4 (James Jones Exhibit No. 34) is cap-
tioned "Harrasment" [sic] . This docmnent was distributed to Klans-
men attending a State meeting in Jmie 1964. The content of this
dociunent has been previously discussed in this record. It deals exclu-
sively with the methods and means for carrying out acts of harassment.
Do you have any comment to make upon that document, Mr. Bowers ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, I hand you a series of documents now, all
containing identification as being documents of the White Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi or White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan.

Document 1 is an unofficial mimeographed copy of the constitution
of the White Knights together with the recommended reading list
distributed with the constitution (Julius Harper Exhibit No. 1).

Document No. 2, the constitution, with amendments, approved April
19, 1964 (Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 2) .

Document No. 3, an application for membership (Gordon Lackey
Exhibit No. 1).

Document No. 4, a leaflet, "Twenty Reasons WHY you should, if
qualified, join, aid and support the White Knights of the KU KLUX
KLAN of Mississippi (Thomas Gunter Exhibit No. 1, p. 2747).

Document No. 5, the Executive Lecture, March 1, 1964, issue (Burre:
Wliite Exhibit No. 2).

Document No. 6, "The KLAN Ledger," July 4, 1964 (Thomas Gun-
ter Exhibit No. 3, pp. 2756-2759).

Document No. 7, "The Klan Ledger," July 1965 issue.

Document No. 8, "The Klan Ledger," October 21, 1965, Special
Jones County Edition.

tion as Imperial Wizard of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of Mississippi ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

(Documents Nos. 7 and 8 marked "Sam Bowers Exhibits Nos. 1 and
2," respectively, follow:)

2916 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 1

An Official Publication of the IJhitc Kiiiglits of the KU KLIU KLnN of Miss.
Special HUAC Invostisaticn Issue July, 1965

In order to fulfill one of our foremost obligations to the American pub-
lic, which is education, and to prepere a base for i wholesome and pro-
ductive session by the HIIAO, ar v/ell as to combat the vicious lies and
distortions of an evil and depraved National Precs, this Special lidition
has been prepared in the interest of Truth and Justice « It is basca
upon a recent inteivicw which was granted by the Honorable Grand Dragon
of tho VflvKKKJI to' the 'widely recognized add" esteemed patriotic correspon-
dent, Kr. Grahan Page. 'Ihe questions are by wr. Page, the answers are
by the Grand Dragon of the IVKICKKM.

Q. Sir, for several nonths nov/, there has been notice of an impending in-
vestirjation of the KU KLUX KLPJi by the !IUaC. iJhat is the purpose of the
investig-.tion, and what is the position of tho White Kniglits of Miss, in
regard to itV

A. ./ell, since the KU KLUa KL/J>J, as we know it today, is almost a century
old, and since its program and purpose has been widely published at fro-
quont intervals all during that titie, especially by we '.Jhite Knights here
in i'iississippi, it is most difficult to see any need for an investigation
by this comnittee, which was only establisried to investigate subversive
propjaganda. V.'e Klansmen feel that the HUAC is being used by the atheis-
tic enemies of /iraorica as a publicity forxom, in connection with their cap-
tive National Press, to smear and humiliate our Honorable Knichts in an
attempt to discredit our work, which is dedicated to the preserv^ition of
Christian Civilization.

Q. It has become rather fashionable of late for professional politicians
to take slaps at the Klan, has it not? Starting vdth the President, and
I beliovj, continuing more recentl,y, the Lt. Governor and Attorney General
of Mississippi, and the Attorney General of Alabama?

A. Yes, of course, Graham. But you must remember that these sr.illow and
selfish politicians actually have no real purpose in life other chan the
advancement of their own personal careers. T.icy Soiow or care little or
nothing about the Ideals of ;.merica, the Klan, or, for that matte:', the
communist party. They sense thr.t the Power of the Beast is against Lhe
Klan, so they themselves attack the Klan in order to curry favor with tho
Beast. They actually have no real feelings in the matter of the Klan,
and we do not even consider their attacks as r^al opposition. Tne Klan
existed long before these animals v/cre born, and it will be here long
after they have passed, when their selfish administrations are but an un-
pleasant recollection in the memory of Christian Aniericans.

v. Sir, it ic often said by the critics of the Klan, that your groat
v;eakness stems fron the fact that yours is purely a resistence organizat-
ion, and that, therefore, it has no positive program, which it must have
if it is to be successful. How do you meet this accusation?

A. W-il, of course, the accusation is false, because its roots are in an
occess-on for atheistic materialiav., irfiich is the hallmark of the eneities
01 '0>ri&t, who exercise so much public control today. Tho Klan does
■■^- '.Jl these atheists and their fiendishly contrived prograjns. The Klan
co^,: it.;sioT Sr;tnn ?md his agents on all possible fronts; and in so doing,
v.-i achieve the highest POSITIVE program of which men arc capable: JjlSUS,
v-:-.iIST. "Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God" is on^ .f .America's
oldest and most honored bywords. V.'c challenge any profe3sicn:ii politic-
ir-n, any so-caLLod "liberal", any oo-cfilled "humanitarian", - •' any other
atheistic, natorialistic agent of Satan to bring b»;forc the i>icricrn
Iniblic tlW of their hon-spavmid.proriraifls wliich. h-.ivc a higher I'CSiTIVi;
ra.Tk thfoi ODKI,i;ia,'CB TO GOD.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2917

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 1 — Continued

C i-n^thcr chr.rr;c iJhich Kl'.n critics arc fell': ;.f hurlinr agninst y^u is
that y^u aro "bijr^tcd" -;nd nari-.;w in yuur scljcti^n -f t ■.ciders, tecnuso
y.-u exclude "Jews", Tapists, Orientals and ether non-'.^nel^'-S-'oc-^n ethnic
fr.ups froi.; r',c::;;x;rship. This 'sold ti.' bu "vr.der.^cratic", and is '.ne cf
tho nain reasons why rrofessi.nrd r-.liticiv.s are willing to attack you,
bec-.usc of your snail nur.-lors. ■' uldn't it b.- better t-^ l_wor y-ur rigid
restricti;;ns s^i.ewhac in orJcr to r-ain a wider public acceptance?
/.. Je are always r^iHused when we l.oar this arjunjnt , because it sh-ws such
an absurd i-jr.^ranc of tiie CX sp^l of the U.rd, and the -urp^se .f the K.Ian.
First v"f ell, let me pcint out th'.t our Ljrd and Savior, Jesus Christ, is
not a "dcr.iocratic" Leader. Rjr.eubcr, it ;^as a "da.i^cratic" n^'o v;hich ee-
n.andeu His crucifixion. (See ?ls., the 19th Chapter of Luke), i.'ext, the
real strongth of the Klan d^es n.t stti.: primarily frcu its nui.ibers, but
fron its rOoITICM as '-n l-apleri>.nt^d an.i v.f the Will of tho I^rd. It nakos
little difference, in the final Sv,nse, whether we are 10 or 10 Lullion, so
long as wo are in th'j Hinds .;f the Lord.

Q. But when y.u draw such -■> strict line, are y:u not beinj; unfair to the
individual "Jew", lapist-i.r other outsider? nre there net scn.e t;ood /ir.,eri-
8ins in these croups "Isr?

j\. Undoul-tedly, there are saae gcod people to bo f.und in th. se groups.
I wich to emphasis thr.t i/e Klansncn have n^ quarrel with any individual
wh conducts hinself as a responsible /o^ierican citizen should, and who
takes n- part in revolutienary activity rf cny kind. It is with the alien,
un.if.-.orican t^r^ups such as the Synagogue of Satan, or the rior.ian hierarchy
that v;e of the Klan quarrel, rather than with the individual, ignorant and

deeeived "Jew" or Tapist. Cur artiS are always open to these nis.^uided in-
dividuals, and we stand ready to accept thci.. whenever they are able to
break away frar.i the atheisi.i of the Synagogue and the idolatry of the ; apacy.
It is not we wh. are bigoted. It is they who are foolishly and ignorantly
rejecting the Holy /(ord of God, and the Personal Salvation ..f Jesus Christ.

Q. /Oiother accusntijn against the Klan by its ener.iios is in rog-ird to
unlawful violence. iJhat is the Klan position in regard to this point?
.>. First, let ue say th.~t r.cst ^f what the Klan is blamed for is not the
work of the Klan. .ve are a c^nvionient whipping boy rather than actual,
iinalicicus offenders. Occasionally', sono >.f our r.iore spirited good Christ-
ian Brothers nay bi-cci.;e so onra^-ed over the w^rk of the revolutii.nary
atheists in our midst, that thoy are goaded into takinj^ rotaliatory action
against then; but no honest or sorious pors^n bl^jries any^no but the atheists,
ther.isolves fcr this. It is against hum.an nature end the basic l^.ws of
self-defense to expect an .-ncricn citizen to renrin unprov kod v;hile the
civilized society v;hich shelters his fc^nily and loved ones is destr.yod.
Getrge Jashingtcn cnce said: "The pe.ple knov; that i.-.an cuinot govern with-
out God and the Bible"; and it is the failure t^ ..bservc this naxir.'. v/hich
has led the courts and the legislatures to attempt the regulation of man
by man without the Guidance of the Lord, thereby r.akint our govemi.iental
adv.inistration a farce and a fraud, with -/no unGodly, unconstitutional
decree or statute piled one on top of an^thor, in a ridiculous atte:..pt to
play the role ^f G<.d. The position of the Klan in tlds matter is that
we do not propose to pen.'.it the Christian, Constitutional Liberty of ijaer-
ica to be destroyed, either Covertly ^r overtly, either unlawfullj-, or undei
Cvilor of law, by the athoistic conspiracy of the Synagogue of Satan.

Q. ;/hat is the position of tho VJKKK1CI-; as regards public m?.rches and pub-
lic demonstraticns? Di yoU feel tl-.at the .-hito Knights of Mississippi,
since they arc tho doninant Klan in Mississippi, should countor-r.arch ag-
ainst the conr.iunists demonstrators in a show of strength?
i.. Our Klan is opposed to public r.iurchos, demonstrations, and all other
related activities which upset tho g.neral tranquility of our nonrial,
daily lives, l.'c strive at all ti.-.os to handle all of .ur pr.blens in a
quiet and sober manner with a due and careful regard f „r the feelings of
the goncral public in fiississippi, whose best interests we alv/ayo serve.
The God-given Ideals of «n-.orica, v/hich wc seek to maintain, cannot be pre-
served and protected by mass actions in our streets.

Q. ..-hat is the relationship of the l-Tiite Knights of the KU KLUX KL«N uf
the S.vereign Rcalij of Mississippi with other Klan groups such as the
National, United, Old Original, etc.?

". V;c, of course, aro Spiritually United with all of cur Klan Brethren
everywhere, thr.ugh Jesus Christ, our mutual Lord and Savior. It is only
in the structure and cdi.iinistration . f Klan government that wo differ with
these others. Curs is a C< nstitutional ftcpublic, which contains all -jf
the Classic <jr.erican Features . f separate dopr.rtnents (Legislative, iSxec,
Ju.'.icial), bicameral Lei^islature, purse power in lower House, Bill of
rti.^hts, etc. Mwst of these other Klans are too centralized in thoir
ad-rdnistration to suit the pristine taste ..if our strict and lo; al
.norican citizens of iiississippi, and we arc, therefore, c. nsti'tuted as
a S^vcreir^i Realm of the liivisible ^npire in and for Mississippi..

2918 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 2

An Official Publication of the White Knights of the KU KLUX KLAN of Mis

SPECIAL JONES COUNTY EDITION October 21, 1965

This Special Edition of the Klan-Ledger has been prepared and distrihut
ed in order to clear up many diubts and misunderstandings which have
arisen as a result of the fanatical and incoherent TV spectacle last
Monday evening by Henry Bvicklev. Ve have no desire to create any
disturbance or add any fuel to the fire, so this issue is not to be
considered as a rebuttal to the ill-mannered tirade of Bucklew, but
rather as a Christian effort in the hope that it will have a calMng
and sobering influence upon the good citizens of Jones County who have
becrme upset over the notoriety and shame which has been brought upon
our community by the ill-considered act of Bucklew. Many of our
best citizens are irritated and in an ugly mood regarding Bucklew- s
conduct, and we are most anxious that these citizens refrain from _
taking any punitive or retaliatory action against him.. All that is
necessary is that everyone remain calm, inform themselves of the real
facts in this case, and the damage done to the community by Bucklew
will be largely dissapated. "He who troubleth his own house
shall inherit the wind." Let those of us who are the truly-
responsible citizens of this community see to it that we do not do
anything to increase the trouble and wind which has been stirred up by
Bucklew. Even thoug his conduct was admittedly inexcusable,
vicious and ill-mannered, that does not justify otheres to retaliate
acainst him and especially in anger.

As far as the position of the White Knights of the KU KLUX KLANof
Missisippi is concerned, we have always been against open, public
violence. We are primarily a Christian Educational body, and always
seek to solve our problems and conduct our affairs with a minimum of
inconvienience and disturbance to the general community. Certainly,
there can be no conflict between ourselves and Bucklew on that score.
Obviously, whatever conflict there does exist between us must lie in
another category, as indeed it does. The general public certainly has
a right to know what this is and to be informed of the facts.
The conflict which now exists between the White Kniglits of the KU KLUX
KLAN and Henry Bucklew is the same, dark specter which has dogged his
entire checkered public career, THE LOVE OE MONEY,

When Bucklew was first sworn into the White Knights, shortly before
the recent election, it was with the expectation that he would not
only receive the political support of the Knights at the polls, but
that he would also have access to the funds in the Klan treasury of the
Jones County Klavern, However, these were pnly his ovn personal
expectations, without foundation, for he had received no official
promises in this regard. When he later discovered(af ter the election)
that the Constitutional System under which our government functions
in the Domain of the Invisible Empire effectively PREVENTS any dipping
into the till by individual officers or memberB without the consent of
the majority, his enthusiasm for the Klan began to wane. He reasoned
that if "Henry Bucklew can't get any money out of the Klan, then the
Klan Jest ain't any good, nohow," He met several times with various
officers of the Klan after becoming mayor and offered them protection
from prosecution and favoritism in exchange for cash. These deals
were always politely refused by the officers of the Klan, because the
White Knjghts are innocent of any wrongdoing, and their Knights are
productive citizens of the connnunity who can earn their own way and do
not have to buy favoritism from politicians. More recently, Bucklew
has approached various Knihts and atteinpted to get them to go out and
juiip on and beat up some of his personal and political enemies, which,
of course, our honorable Knights refused to do. As a result of these
refusals, Bucklew then began to look about for ether sources of ready
cash. He soon discovered the agents of the malignant conspiracy
whose agents hate Christ, the Klan and Christian Civilisation. These
agents who want to see the Klan destroyed have connections which lead
right straight up to LB J and Katzenback and the source of all cash.
When Bucklew made this new connection, he dropped out of the White
Knights, violated his oath, and his old friends became his new enemies.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2919

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 2 — Continued

Uov, ve wish to make it clear at this point that Henry Bucklew is not
OUT enemy. The devilish communists from the Synagogue of Satan are
our enejuy, and he has only 'become their ignorant tool. Even after his
virulent attack upon us,ve do not hate Henry Bucklew. He is more to
be pitied than he is to be condemned. He is a weak man, and his
principle failing is his lust for cash, a lust which the Klan was unable
to satisfy, and which the enemies of Christian Civilisation were able to
satisfy.

Actually, we resent Bucklew 's ignorant misrepre-sentatioiti' of Holy

fcripture and the Fiery Cross, the Symbol of our Ancient and Noble Order
ar more than we resent his personal attacks upon ourselves, but m
even these matters, he will nave to answer at the Judgement Seat,

With malice toward none, and charity for all, we remain the White Knight^
of the KU KLUX KLAN of the Sovereign Realm of Mississippi,

Jones County Klnvern

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, please look at document No. 8, the "Special
Jones County Edition" of "The Klan Ledger." Are the statements
made again^ Laurel, Mississippi, Mayor Henry Bucklew true or are
they false by design, in order to convince the citizens of Laurel that
the "V^Hiite Knights are good and the mayor bad ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Were the statements designed to keep the community
on your side so that, as set forth in Executive Lecture of March 1, 1964,
"we can just about do anything to our enemies with impunity"?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, in the Executive Lecture of March 1,
1964, in the section on propaganda, instructions are given on the use
of propaganda in documents not identified with the name of the orga-
nization, but independent in name. The documents which have been
handed to you are — according to the committee's investigations — doc-
uments prepared by the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
Mississippi, even though the name "White Knights" does not appear
upon these documents.

I will read the documents to you so that you can have a chance to
examine them and then you may answer me whether or not the results
of the investigation are factual.

Docimient 1 is captioned "Liberty Is a Boisterous Sea. Timid Men
Prefer the Calm of Despotism." By "The Mississippi White Caps."

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 3." ^)

Document No. 2, captioned "WASP, Inc., A Christian, Non-Profit
Organization Dedicated to the Christian American Heritage."

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 4." -)

Document No. 3, a "Black List" unsigned but directed to the atten-
tion of "White Citizens of Meridian and Lauderdale County."

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 5" follows:)

^ See committee report, The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, pp. 295, 296.
2 Ibid., pp. 293, 294.

2920 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 5

BLAC:: LIST
ATTEJITICN '^iITE CITIZSi'S 0? ^JERIDIA!' AID LAUDERD.'iE CO'TTZ

-iiecses "■"'-r
j?or tar.rt:

rre "l,rr.: toi-E ".no.
piece? o" r.i].ver-

Listed belo-' are ? fe;.^ people r.nd tui
^jarasites, ^'ho ';oTil(f"scll their r,ovli
INTERGRATION.

AL KEY

HOPPER Tr.CMAS

0. A. BOOKER

ROY GUM

CECIL CURRIE

WALLACE MILLER

]^ILL RS.iDY

BILLY HEVILLE

LAWRENCE RA3B

BILLY BIRDS CNG

E, C. LIDE

CAROL SliITII-* H?.ii- Fr.shionist

>mS. I. A. ROSE^AUM

R. B. RAIIIER

W. R. RAl-IAGSR

TOII KINUIECE

TOM EOL-RDEAUX

GRAIJVILLE JOMES

SY ROSEI'IBAUM

DR. L. 0. TODD

The Chairman. Wliat is the title, "Black list" ?
Mr. Appell. "Black List," yes, sir.
The Chairman. Let me take a look at that.
(Document handed to chairman.)

Mr. Appell. Document No. 4, "Questions all White Citizens of
Lauderdale County and City of Meridian should ask your neighbors."
(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 6 follows:)

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 6

Questions all White Citizens of Lauderdale County and City of Meridian

BUCi: GRESr^E
T. C, rJLL
LOUIE LEE
LUCI-.LE DCI'ALD

L. B. ?kj:y.

Cr^AIIP GIPSCN

SAii i:iEi-nrz

MEYER DAVIDSON •

CTHO SMIT^-I— School For

30RDEIT MILK CO! ^ ANY

HOLIDAY IIIIT

ST. JOSEPH HOSPITAL

1. Why did your "
in Weidmanns Cafe.

go out of his way to shake hands with 4 niggers

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2921

2. Is * * * paying off his debt by installing nigger * * * and nigger * * *
as directors of the Anti-Poverty program. Why should members of the civil
rights group be directors.

3. Did nigger * * * promiee [sic] * * * the nigger vote for other concessions.

4. Do you want a nigger as your Mayor or City Councilman the next election.
PLEASE REGISTER TO VOTE

5. Did * * * join the great society while in Washington for a few federal
dollars. — Ask Humphrey

6. Why does * * * praise all of the people working with the great society.

7. Why does * * * try to advise the City Policemen how to live their private
lives. Is he taking orders from nigger * * * and nigger * * *.

8. Why should some of our elected officials want to give all the federal money
to the niggers who wouldn't work if they had a job. You can't help people
white or black who won't help themselves.

9. Why was the Chamber of Commerce members a go between with Nig-
ger * * * for some of the cafe operators of * * *.

10. Who is the white nigger lady who is dating the nigger sailor. She works
at * * *.

11. Who is the white waitress at * * * who can't keep her hands off the
white nigger boy who works in the * * *.

12. Who is the white lady and her daughter who operate a * * * on * * *
who is so fond of the nigger in the kitchen.

13. Why did some of the Board of Supervisors and all of the City School
Board object to the white citizens of Bonita leasing the school building for a
private school.

14. Are they planning to teach the young niggers how to be communist
withe [sic] the Anti-Poverty money in the school building at Bonita.

15. Who is the * * * owner and operator on * * * who got on his knees at
the red headed communist at COFO Headquarter.

16. Why did one of the * * * have his child transfered [sic] from one first
grade teacher to the other. Was it because he did not want his child in the room
with a nigger.

17. Why are the city bus lines still operating. Is it because of the civil rights
group in Meridian.

18. What are the questions * * * is asking the people appling [sic] for jobs
in the new store.

White Tax Paying Citizens of
Lauderdale County and City
OF Meridian.

Mr. Appell. Document No. 5, "The Christian Sentinel."

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 7" and retained in
committee files.)

Document No. 6, the "Christian Constitutional Commitee, Jones
County Chapter."

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 8" and retained in
committee files. )

Mr. Bowers, I now ask you to affirm or deny the fact that these docu-
ments were prepared under the direction of the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

2922 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, on the "Black List" document, you will
notice the name Billy Birdson^. Billy Birdsong has advised the stajff
that he was an investigator of the White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan, a personal investigator to yourself as the Imperial Wizard. Is
the statement made to the staff by Billy Birdsong true or false?
(Witness confers with counsel. )

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. After Birdsong broke with the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan, did you have him beaten by a gi'oup of Klansmen?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, I ask you to look at the "Black List"
and indicate to the committee the identity of the other Klansmen who
appear on that list because they broke with your organization.

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Did you order Wallace Miller, whose name appears on
that list, to be banished from the White Knights because you suspected
that he was an informant ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, there is now being handed to you a docu-
ment captioned the "Standard Examination Form." I ask you if this
document was prepared by the White Knights, distributed to White
Knight members, for use in attempting to embarrass agents of the
FBI who might seek interviews with members of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 9" follows:)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2923

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 9

STANDARD EXAMINATION FORM

To be used by all Christian American Patriots as an aid in properly identifying
all unknown Persons who may be seeking information. At least one other Christian
American Patriot should be present when giving this EXAMINATION. Persons who refuse
to take this EXAMINATION or who fail to answer the questions in a forthright and
satisfactory manner should be regarded as ENEMIES of the Constitutional Republic of
the United States of America and should be considered as Emissaries of the anti-
Christ, Satan.

Do you believe in Almighty God, the ONE Supreme Creator, Ruler and Judge of the
Universe?

2. Do you believe in the Redeeming Spirit of the Christ, Jesus, Son of the Living
God and the SOLE Intecessor for the Sins of Mankind, by Whom NONE cometh unto
the Kingdom of the Father, except by HIM?

3. Do you believe that the Holy Scriptures are the Greatest tangible asset which is
possessed by man on this earth, and that the WORD contained therein must be the
Prime Guide by which man must conduct himself here on earth?

4. Do you acknowledge the King James Version of the Holy Writ as the Prime Writ for
Americans and recognize the attempts to "revise" and "standardize" and "merge"
this version with other texts as nothing but a deliberate attempt to degrade and
profane the "Word" into just another collection of religious writings?

5. Do you believe that any mortal man here on earth has the power to pardon or to
redeem the sins of another, or that any mortal man can accumulate the power or
ability whereby he could become an Advocate in the Court of Almighty God to
intercede for the remission of the sins of another?

6. Do you believe that the Mercy and Advocacy of Christ is available to all those
who humbly and honestly seek Him?

7. Do you believe that any Human Being has the power to cut another Human Being off
from, and deny the Salvation of Christ to another?

8. Do you believe that the most any True Christian can do for a fellow Human Being
is to help his fellow to see the Path to the Living Christ and try to gently
lead him Up that Path, but that no one may or can be FORCED to accept Christ,
and each individual must accept or reject Christ according to his individual
will?

9. Do you believe that a powerful, supernatural Force of Evil, called Anti-Christ
or Satan does exist in the world?

10. Do you recognize the Fact that all men are continually being torn between the
Force of Christ and the Anti-Christ Forces of Satan?

11. Do you recognize the Fact that man is absolutely helpless before Satan until he
truly and humbly Accepts the Living Christ as his own Personal Savior; and that
all of man's intelligence, and his material gifts: his education, his prestige,
his property, his money, his good intentions and his works are worthless against
Satan, UNLESS there is an Absolute, Primary Foundation of an undying Belief in,
Acceptance of and Reliance upon The Living Christ at the root-center of each
man's Being?

12. Do you accept the Living Christ, Jesus as your Personal Savior and your ONLY
Hope against Satan?

13. Do you recognize that all good intentions and works which are not founded in
Christ are either meaningless or Evil?

14. Do you believe that Satan impels some men to rule and control the earthly life
and destiny of other men, and gives them power to do so?

15. Do you believe that Almighty God so ordained man that he should live free of the
control of the will of other men, and that no man has the right to initiate
Trespass acjainst another, or initiate by any means whatsoever anything to bring
another man under the control of his will?

16. Do you recognize that a True Christian American Patriot will turn the other
cheek to those who wrong him, but will destroy those who attrmpt to destroy him,
and will seek to destroy those who seek to destroy him, because anything less
would be suicide?

17. Do you believe that Christianity requires that a True Christian should not
resist having his earthly life taken by a killer?

2924 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 9 — Continued

i8. Do you recognize the fact that the United States of America is the only Govern-
mental System ever built in the world with the announced intention and recog-
nized purpose of protecting the Life, Liberty, and the RIGHT to pursue Happiness
of each and every one of the Law-Abiding, responsible citizens under its juris-
diction, after FIRST recognizing the FACT that these Rights were God-given in
the FIRST place and were therefore not within the province of any man, group of
men, or government either to GRANT or to DENY?

19. Do you understand that this one point covered in Question #18 is the Basic and
Fundamental point which makes the United States of America unique in the world
and therefore absolutely different from, and therefore properly in opposition
to every other governmental system in the world?

20. Do you recognize that the fundamental, founding purpose and Spirit of all True
Law in the USA is to implement the Will of God which obviously decrees: That
man shall live free from the control of the will of his neighbor, and not
trespass against his neighbor?

21. Do you believe that the preceeding principle is the True Spirit of American
Law, which is of Divine Origin?

22. Do you recognize the fact that statutes and decisions must conform to this
Spirit in order to be ranked as True American Law?

23. Do you recognize the fact that men under the influence of Satan are able to
twist laws, enact laws and enforce laws under the material power of Governmental
Authority which are contrary to the Spirit of American Law, and which, therefore,
do not rank as True American Law?

24. If the Letter of the Law conflicts with the Spirit of the Law, WHICH will you
adhere to, obey and enforce?

25. Do you acknowledge that those persons who cause or permit the Letter of the Law
to conflict with the Spirit of the Law in America are the Prime Enemies of the
Republic of the United States of America and of every innocent citizen and per-
son under its jurisdiction?

26. Do you believe that yoix personal, physical survival is tied to the maintenance
of a governmental administration in America which will continuously implement
the Constitutional Spirit of American Law?

27. Do you regard an Enemy of the Republic of the United States of America and the
Spiritual Ideals which are protected by its Constitution as YOUR personal
enemy?

28. Do you differentiate between the Government of the United States of America and
the PERSONS who hold offices and positions under its Constitution?

29. If the minions of material governmental authority threaten, attempt to, or use
physical force and violence to enforce compliance with some letter of law which
is in clear conflict with the Constitution and the Spirit of American Law, do
you believe that the Private Citizens of America have a right to oppose them
with physical force, using the Constitution and the Supremacy of the Will of
Almighty God as their Authority?

30. Do you believe in Democracy?

31. Do you believe in Plebescite Cannabilism?

32. How can demagogues be controlled in a Democracy?

33. Are man-made laws more useful when they are aimed at doing "good", or when they
are aimed at shackeling Satan?

34. What is your definition of "communism"?

35. What is the motivating force behind "communism"?

36. Do you believe that the Spirit of American Law will be helped or be injured by '<
becoming entangled in Foreign Affairs?

37. Do you believe that the International Bankers have anything worthwhile to offer
America?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2925

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, with respect to burnings, bombings, and
other acts of violence o]|^ intimidation, did the White Knights under
their program of Christian militancy classify these acts into four cate-
gories, namely. No. 1, Project 1, threatening telephone calls or visits;
2, burning of crosses, usually on private property; No. 3, beating or
flogging, burning of property, night shooting into property ; and No.
4, extermination ^

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. As Imperial Wizard of the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi, did you ever authorize the extermination
or elimination of a human being ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

The Chairman. You seem shocked by that question. Why don't you
say "no" under oath ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowsers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Under your personal direction or with knowledge
gained by you as the Imperial Wizard, did any human being die as a
result of acts of violence or intimidation by members of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Was a project of extermination issued on an individ-
ual who was described wnthin the Klan by the nickname "The Goatee" ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I decline to

Mr. Appell. Did you know the identity of the person referred to
as"TheOoatee"?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I resj^ectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Was "The Goatee" Schwemer, one of the three civil
rights workers who lost their lives in Philadelphia in June 1964?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, at a State meeting of the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan, did you ever announce that the Wliite Knights
had 97 projects going throughout the State of Mississippi ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. At a meeting of the "V^Hiite Knights on November 15,
1964, held between Harrisville and Brandon, Mississippi, was a mora-
torium declared for 90 days on all third- and fourth-degree projects?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

2926 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. In July 1965, after the moratorium was lifted, did you
state at a meeting of the Wliite Knights leaders that you wanted one
act of violence in each province each week ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. On September 27, 1964, at a meeting held on the second
floor of the Harris box factory ^ in Meridian, Mississippi, did you dur-
ing a discussion on violence state, if it was necessary to eliminate some-
one, it should be done without malice and in complete silence and in
the manner of a Christian act ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, in your position as Imperial Wizard of
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, have you made statements
and prepared leaflets which support the position — your position — that
the Klan should fight the Zionists or Jews whom you believed to be
the greater threat to this country ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Do you know George Lincoln Rockwell of the Amer-
ican Nazi Party ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever make a statement that you were consider-
ing joining the American Nazi Party because they had several goals
that are the same as the Klan ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, as the Imperial Wizard, do you also hold
your membership in the Klavern in Laurel, Mississippi, known under
the cover name of the Bogue Homa Hunting and Rifle Club?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, information gathered during the com-
mittee's investigation establishes that at almost every meeting of the
Bogue Homa Hunting and Rifle Club projects were discussed by the
mernbership. These discussions rarely disclosed to membership the
projects. An example of this happened at a meeting of June 9, 1964.
The discussion on this night centered around the arrival in Laurel of
Negroes and whites. B. F. Hinton, then the exalted cyclops of the Kla-
vern and now one of the White Knights province giants told the 39
Klansmen assembled that it was planned to take no action against
these people during the daytime, but that group leaders within the
Klavern would take action against them during the night hours. It
was further discussed that only the Klan leaders would know the iden-
tity of the Klansmen participating in the project.

Do you possess knowledge with respect to the factuality of that.
Mr. Bowers ?

1 Harris Box Company, Inc.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

2927

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, I now hand you three sheets of paper.
The first column contains the date, the second column sets forth on
that date whether there was a bombing and assault, a phone threat or
cross-burning. The third column lists the identity of the individual
or organization against whom it was carried out, and the fourth col-
umn shows the location of the place, all within Jones County,
Mississippi.

Please review those dates and tell the committee whether you possess
any knowledge with respect to any of the acts of violence or intimi-
dation set forth on that dociMnent.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Appell. Have you reviewed the document, Mr. Bowers ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

(Document marked "Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 10" follows :)

Sam Bowers Exhibit No. 10
Schedule of Jones County Violence

5/10/64
8/11/64

8/16/64

8/18/64

Bombing

Assault

Assault

Assault

Eugene Keys, Negro

victim,
on C R workers by Frank

Upton.

V. L. Lee, Klansman

on CR workers — 15

Klansmen went to

COFO picnic,
on C R worker by

Henry De Boxtel.
Ottis Matthews

Norman Lee.
on white C R worker by

KKK.
on white CR by Wm

Kennedy & Harold

Stringer, KKK.
Laurel Leader Call for

Ernest McClarion___^.-.

Brewel Currie (negro)

Wysess Johnson (negro)..
Community Grocery

(negro) .
Dunigan Grocery (negro).
Rahaim Baseball Park...
Community Recreation

Center.

Laurel, Miss.
Kress Store, Laurel

Laurel, Miss.

Laurel, Miss.

8/22/64

11/ 3/64
11/17/64

Assault

Assault

Assault

Currie Farm,
Jones County.

Laurel, Miss.

Laurel, Miss.

11/30/64

Assault

Kress Lunch ct.

1/15/65

1/20/65

1/29/65

2/ 9/65
2/17/65
3/ 4/65
4/23/65
5/16/65

5/16/65
5/16/65
5/16/65

5/17/65

Assault

Phone threat

Attempt house
burning.

House shooting

House burning

House burning

House burning

House burning

House burning

House burning

House burning

House burning

House burning

Shooting

Shooting

Laurel.
Downtown park-
ing lot — Laurel.

Laurel, Miss.

Soso, Miss.

Laurel, Miss.
Laurel, Miss.
EUisville, Miss.
Ellisville, Miss.
Mt. Olive, Miss.

Laurel, Miss.

Laurel.

Laurel.

Laurel, Miss.

5/17/65
6/16/65
6/16/65

Gaddis Service Station.. .

Dr. B. E. Murph, State
NAACP Vicepresident.

Skylark Club (negro)

Charles Garrett (negro) _.

Meridian Ave.

Laurel.
Laurel, Miss.

Laurel, Miss.

6/19/65

House burning

Rt. 5, Jones
County.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4-

2928

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.

Sam Bowes Exhibit No. 10 — Continued
Schedule of Jones County Violence — Continued

7/ 1/65
7/ 1/65

7/ 1/65

7/ 1/65

7/ 1/65

7/ 1/65

7/ 1/65

7/ 1/65
7/ 3/65

7/19/65

8/10/65

8/10/65

9/ 2/65
9/ 6/65
9/ 7/65
9/14/65
9/16/65

9/26/65

9/30/65

10/11/65
10/26/65

House burning..
House burnings.

Store burning. -
Barn explosion-
House burning.

House burning.
House burning.

8 Cross burnings.
Attempt house

burnings.
House burning...

House burning. . .

Shooting & house
burning.

Explosion

Cross burning

House burning...

House burning

Shooting

Church burning.

Attempt house

burn.
House burning..
Shotgun Shell --

COFO house, Laurel.. .
(13 houses) Newcomer

Quarters) .
Shady Grove — Big R.

Drive In Restaurant.
W. O. Ball— Sharon

Comm.
W. D. Hinton

J. W. Cooley..
Vernon Patton.

Mrs. Clayton^negro CR

supporter.
Lowell Tew (white

attorney) .
W. O. Ball, Sharon

Comm.
Rev. Sam Page, Sharon

Comm.

COFO truck

Joe Atkins' house (white) .

Unknown house

Lula Sanders (negro)

Dr. B. E. Murph, State

NAACP Vice-Pres.
Royal Valley Negro

Baptist.
Dinah Hyde Woodland

(negro) .

Brewel Currie Farm

Fired into door of colored

school.

Laurel.
Laurel.

Jones County.

Jones County.

Mt. Olive Com-
munity.

Mt. Oliver Com-
munity.

Mt. Olive Com-
munity.

Jones County.

Laurel, Miss.

Laurel.

Jones County.

Jones County.

Laurel.
Laurel.

Sandersville, Miss.
Sandersville, Miss.
Laurel.

Jones County.

Ovett.

EUisville, Miss.
Laurel.

Mr. AppeiuL. Mr. Bowers, the Klavern in Laurel approved a project
on April 29, 1964, against the Leader-Call, a newspaper in Laurel,
which was bombed on the night of May 10. I think the documents that
are in front of you reflect that. It is reported that just a small quan-
tity, of dynamite was used in that because they did not want to damage
the wall of the bowling alley. Do you have vending equipment and
pinball machines in the bowling alley and is that the reason why a
small charge of dynamite was used ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, the document reflects that there was an
assault on Ottis Matthews, the business agent of the local of the Inter-
national Woodworkers of America, AFL-CIO in Laurel, Mississippi.
Do you possess any knowledge of this assault on Ottis Matthews ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Listed on the document is a burning on February 17,
1965, of COFO headquarters in Laurel. The committee's investiga-
tion reflects that officers of the EUisville- Jones County Klavern, stated
that the COFO headquarters burning was a State project. What

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2929

knowledge can you give the committee about this being a State
project?

Mr, Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, the committee's investigation established
the following individuals to have held State office in the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan : Sam H. Bowers, Laurel, as the Imperial Wiz-
ard; Julius Harper, Crystal Springs, as Grand Dragon ; Billy Buckles,
as the grand giant of Roxie, Mississippi; Paul Foster of Natchez,
Mississippi, the grand chaplain, he bemg replaced by Petus G. Bilbo,
Prentiss, Mississippi ; Ernest S. Gilbert, of Brookhaven, the first grand
director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation. He was replaced by
Deavours Nix of Laurel. W. R. Mangum, who has acted as MC of the
State executive meetings; John McGregor, Jackson, Mississippi, a
Klan tudor or propaganda chief, who was replaced in October 1964
by Dr. Benny Hennington of Lincoln County.

Is the result of the committee's investigation factual ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. BowTiRS. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Under the constitution, Mr. Bowers, the jurisdiction of
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is divided into provmces,
with each province having as province officer, the province giant and
the province Klan Bureau of Investigation man. The committee's
investigation established the following individuals to have held the

gositions of province KBI : H. L. Holmes, Jr., Jackson, Mississippi ;
idney Davis of Jackson, Mississippi ; A. A. Rhoads, of Bolton, Mis-
sissippi; Wesley Kersey, Greenwood, Mississippi; Waites McNeil,
Louin, Mississippi ; Harold Lloyd, nicknamed "Cotton," Delk of Hat-
tiesburg; George Kellem, Hattiesburg, Mississippi; Emile Piazza,
Bav Saint Louis, Mississippi ; E. L. McDaniel, Natchez, Mississippi.

Are the results of the committee's investigation in this respect fac-
tual?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. E. L. McDaniel, who served as a province officer of
the White Knights, is currently the Grand Dragon of the United Klans
of America in Mississippi. Do you know that to be factual ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Province giants were identified by the committee dur-
ing its investigation to be Gerald Whitehead, Crystal Springs, Missis-
sippi; W. L. Barrett, Jackson; Clyde Scale, John Winstead, of
Greenwood, Mississippi ; Travis Ainsworth, Hattiesburg Manufactur-
ing Company; Benjamin F. Hinton, of Laurel; C. J. Seal, Pearl
River; and J. K. Greer, Fenwick, Mississippi.

Are the results of the committee's investigation as to province giants
factual ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

2930 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. C. J. Seal, who is currently or who was a province
giant, do you know him to be currently an official of the United Klans
of America ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. The committee's investigation established the follow-
ing individuals to be kleagles or organizers : A. C, Herrington of Ruth,
Mississippi ; Woody Mathews, Utica, Mississippi ; the Reverend Leak
Boyte, Attala, Mississippi; Frank Breeland, Columbia, Mississippi;
Ralph Edwards, Yazoo City; J. N. Fortenberry, of Jackson, Missis-
sippi ; Gordon Lackey of Greenwood, Mississippi ; William Sullivan,
Pearl, Mississippi; Douglas A. Byrd, Liberty, Mississippi; Dave Car-
away, of Liberty, Mississippi; Billy Bird, Mendenhall, Mississippi;
W. L. Barrett, Jackson, Mississippi; Louis A. DiSalvo, Bay Saint
Louis and Waveland, Mississippi; G. W. Bubanks, Hattiesburg, Mis-
sissippi ; P. L. Gray of Jackson, Mississippi ; N. Gregory, Greenville,
Mississippi ; C. L. Jordan of Pattison, Mississippi ; E. R. Killen, Phila-
delphia; A. T. Land, Bay Springs; James R. Lathram, Kilmichael,
Mississippi; D. Moon, Pelahatchie, Mississippi; Q. B. Rutland, Wes-
son, Mississippi; Pete Russell, Magee, Mississippi; Mark Sandifer,
Jayess, Mississippi; Clyde Seale, Meadville, Mississippi; N". Satter-
field, Shaw, Mississippi'; D, Shook, Winona, Mississippi ; L. C. Sharp,
Hattiesburg, Mississippi; Edward Stagner, Tylertown, Mississippi;
and R. C. Wall, Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

Are the results of the committee's investigation factual, Mr. Bowers?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. BoAVERS. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Bursars identified during the meeting : Tommy Brock,
Utica, Mississippi; Everett D. Wiggs of Woodland, Mississippi;
Gordon Sykes, of Greenville; Joe Rusteci, Itta Bena, Mississippi;
Jack Williams, Pelahatchie County, Mississippi; Donald Henshaw,
who was replaced by Dewitt Mark Sandifer of Jayess ; Vincent Pur-
ser, Gulf port, Mississippi.

Are the results of the committee's investigation factual, Mr. Bowers?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. On March 23, 1965, 1 put it to you as a fact, and ask you
to affirm or deny the fact, that DeWitt Mark Sandifer turned over to
you approximately $2500. Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. What disposition was made of that money, Mr. Bowers ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, I put it to vou as a fact that on May 2, 1965, a State meeting was held in Pearl River County, Mississippi, at which time a constitutional amendment was adopted whereby each member would henceforth pay 65 cents per month to the State treasury plus his local dues; that all province and district and grand officers must attend all State meetings of the organization or to be fined$10;
that failure to attend must be supported by an excuse which is accept-

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2931

able to the entire assembled State meeting; that all province, district,
and grand officers shall be paid a maximum of $60 per month at the rate of 10 cents per mile for travel in connection with Klan business; that any man arrested on any charge that admits he is a member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi or admits doing the act for which he is charged will receive no help whatsoever from the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ; that the dele- gates voted to pay obligations as follows :$1795 to pay an old printing
bill in Jackson, Mississippi ; $300 to pay Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers for money he had advanced to the White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund;$200 to W. R. Mangum for outstanding ex-
penses ; $42 to the province giant from Province No. 2 ;$50 each to the
two men who were involved in the assault on a COFO worker in
Vicksburg, Mississippi ; $300 to a man in Natchez, Mississippi, who was arrested during the fall of 1964 by the Mississippi Highway Patrol. Mr. Bowers, is that which was read to you growing out of the meet ing of May 2, 1965, factual ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Mr. Bowers, the committee's investigation established the following officers, Klavern officers, of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi : Ralph Edwards, EC, Yazoo City Klavern ; Price Gray, EC of one of the Klavenis in Jackson, Mississippi; A. C. Herrington, EC of the Ruth, Mississippi, Klavern; N. Gregory, EC of the Greenville, Mis- sissippi, Klavern ; Billie Joe Lee, EC of the Lawrence Comity Klavern No. 2 ; F. M. Martin, EC of the Utica, Mississippi, Klavern ; W. R. Mangum, EC of Magee, Mississippi, Unit No. 1 ; Felter Polk, EC of the Prentiss, Mississippi, Klavern ; Roger Smith, EC of Union, Mis- sissippi, Klavern; C. J. Seal, EC of the Crossroads Commimity Klavern. Seal was replaced as EC by Houston Dillard in April 1965. Robert Thomhill, the EC of the Improved Mississippi Unit at Sandy Hook, Mississippi; Clyde Wentworth, EC of the Franklin County Unit No. 1 in Meadville, Mississippi; W. R. Westmoreland, EC of the Klavern known by the cover name of Copiah Rod and Gmi Club. Howard McLemore replaced Westmoreland as the EC of this Klayeni. George Jasper Williams, EC of the Klavern in Learned, Mississippi ; Frank Hemdon, EC of Lauderdale Coimty Unit at Meridian, Missis- sippi ; Denson "Pee We«" Lott, the EC of Covington County Unit No. 2 at Collins, Mississippi. He was replaced by Ledrun Spell. G. F. "Shorty" Roberts, who was EC and resigned when you i-eorganized the Hattiesburg Unit. He was replaced by Jimmy Watts; Ray, nicknamed "Speed" Lightsey, EC of Jones Comity Unit No. 1 ; Milton Howard James, EC of Jones County Unit No. 2, Ellisville; Henry Keith Dykes, EC of the Wolf Pack Unit No. 3, Jones County, Big Tree Community ; Richard C. "Speck" Steward, EC of Unit No. 4, Jones County; Robert E. Rivers, EC, Unit No. 5, Jones County; Charles B. Holder, EC, Bay Springs, Mississippi ; Herbert Haughton, EC of Covington Comity, No. 1, Mount Olive, Mississippi; Charles Francis Bishop, EC of the Old Raleigh Unit; Robert Lee JoneSj EC of Taylorville Unit ; Robert. H. Tuniage, EC of Mize, Mississippi, Unit; B. F. Hinton was EC of Laurel Unit known as the Bogue Homa Hunting and Rifle Club; I^eonard McGee, EC of the East Group in 2932 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Laurel at one other time; S. T. Shook, EC of the Montgomery County Unit in Winona; Bert McDaniel, EC of the Smith County Unit; HoAvard Purvis, EC of the Popeville Klavem ; Baxter Robinson, EC of the Bums, Mississippi, Unit; Edgar Ray Killen, EC of the Phila- delphia Klan Unit. Mr. Bowers, do you have any comment on the factuality of the committee's investigation as to members of the White Knights holding positions of exalted cyclops ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Edgar Ray Killen, who was the EC of the Phila- delphia, Mississippi, Unit, do you possess knowledge whether he is the same Edgar Ray Killen that was arrested for the murder of the three civil rights workers in Philadelphia ? Mr. BoAVERS. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi- lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Bowers. The Chairman. Before coming to that, Mr. Appell, I would like to ask two or three questions, just briefly. Mr. Bowers, I read from your Imperial Executive Order of May 3, 1964. It is addressed to all officers and members and under sub- ject, and after the colon, it reads: "Forthcoming Enemy attack and countermeasures to be used in meeting same." In that executive or- der you say that it must be read to and by, and miderstood by, every member of your statewide organization. Then you say, "This sum- mer"— this is 1964— This summer, within a very few days, the enemy will launch his final push for victory here in Mississippi. You say : A decree from the Communist authorities in charge of the National Gov- ernment, which will declare the State of Mississippi to be in a Stae [sic] of open revolt, with a complete breakdown of Law and Order, and declaring Martial Law, followed by a massive occupation of the State by Federal Troops, with all known Patriotic Whites placed luider Military Arrest. * * * Could you name, let us say, 100 of the Communist authorities in charge of the National Government at that time ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Could you name 50? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Could you name 20? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Could you name 10? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Could you name five? Mr. Bowters. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2933 The Chairman. Could you name one? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. In that Imperial Executive Order you say: "A great deal of attention should he given toward detecting those" ene- mies — "enemy agents who bomb, burn and kill" — as you put it — "their own homes, churches and people in order to provide a sympathetic base for their National Propaganda Machine. These bombings and killings are always blamed on our side, but it is the Insane Commu- nist agitators themselves who are doing it. * * *" Could you name a few of those Communist agitators ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Could you name two? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfidly decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Could you name one? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Now, it has come to the attention of this committee, time and time and time and time agam, that the common practice of your outfit is to say that "all of these bombings and disturbances and killings are really done by foreigners, people from away from here, in order to blame these acts on us." Could you name one single, solitary bombing or killing or act of violence anywhere in the State of Mississippi which was really per- formed by people from away from there and blamed on you and pinned on you? Could you give me one single, solitary case of that type? I will be frank with you. I have been intrigued by this ques- tion, and I honestly do not know of any one, do you? And if you do, why don't you tell me ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. You wind up in your imperial decree by saying, "We must use all of the time which is left" — and you say that would be a matter of day& — no, I am sorry, I will quote it exactly. It is better than I thought : We must use all of the time which is left to us in these next few days preparing to meet this attack. Weapons and ammunition must be accumulated and stored ; squads must drill ; Propaganda equipment must be set up ready to roll ; counter- attack maps, plans and information must be studied and learned ; radios and communications must be established ; Then you wind up by saying — and a Solemn, determined Spirit of Christian Reverence must be stimulated in all members. Did you accumulate weapons and ammunition ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Did you store weapons and ammunition? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Did you drill squads? 2934 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. Mr. BowEfis. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Did you put your propaganda equipment to rolling ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. This was your propaganda equipment, wasn't it? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. All right, Mr. Appell. First I want to read from another document I have here which you put out, Mr. Bowers, what you call the Black List. It is headed in bold type : ATTENTION WHITE CITIZENS OF MERIDIAN AND LAUDERDALE COUNTY Listed, below are a few people and businesses who are traitors and parasites, who would sell their souls for thirty pieces of silver * * *. Then you proceed to list — and I am not going to name them — a page of such individuals and businesses. How could you imdertake to judge those people and pronomice them to be traitors and parasites ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. I said I would not name them. I Avill name one. One of them on there is Billy Birdsong. You know Billy Birdsong, do you not? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons j)reviously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Wliy, he was your personal investigator for a while ; was he not ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Then you broke with him, did you not? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. As I recall, Mr. Appell related that we had investi- gative information to the effect that you yourself had stated that you had caused Billy Birdsong to be beaten up. Didn't you do that? Didn't you brag about that and say that at a meeting ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. The Chairman. Mr. Bowers, we get information under oath and we screen it out; we do the best we can. We never, without checking, take anything in particular at face value. As far as we are concerned, truth must prevail. If two people a]>pear l>efore us and give us divergent stories, apparently made for the purj^ose of evasion or plain lying, we do not hesitate to act on it and let whoever is subject to the pains and penalties of perjury take the consequence. But let me ask you this : Isn't it a fact that, as a matter of fact, you did send a goon sjquad to call on Billy Birdsong? ( Witness con f er s with counsel . ) The Chairman. Goon squad, terror squad, underground wrecking crew, whatever you call it in Mississippi ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2935 The Chairman. By the way, I won't name it, but I see you have a hospital on that list. Wliy, of all things, a hospital among traitors and parasites, people who would sell their souls for 30 pieces of silver ? ^Vliy a hospital ? Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully decline to answer that question. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed priv- ilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the results of our investigation as it pertains to Mr. Bowers. Mr. Bowers was bom on August 6, 1924, at New Orleans, Louisiana. He resides at 816 South Fourth Avenue, Laurel, Mississippi. He has a partnership, in partnership with Robert Larson in operating the Sambo Amusement Company and the Magnolia Consolidated Realty Company, Inc., both of which are located at 820 South Fourth Street. Laurel, Mississippi. He attended the University of California School of Engineering for 2 years. He entered the Navy in December 1941 and was honorably discharged as Machinist Mate First Class in De- cember 1945. Bowers in Febniaiy of 1964 was elected Imperial Wizard of the "White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. On February 15, 1964, 200 Klansmen met at Brookhaven, Missis- sippi, with those present foraierly being members of the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Realm of Mississippi, a Klan group headed by Royal V. Young and J. D. Swenson. These men had as- sembled because of a disagreement over the misappropriating of fimds principally by J. D. Swenson. On February 17, 1964, meeting of Natchez Klavem announced that the Klectokon, or initiation fee, for the White Knights be$10 ; robe
$10 ; dues$4.25 or $4.50 plus$1 for a building fund.

On February 25, 1964, a regular meeting of the Laurel Klavern was
held. During this meeting it was discussed that a meeting had been
called for February 21, 1964, at the Klavern hall, at which time the
proposed cross-burnings on Saturday, February 22, 1964, were called
off because they thought that the police had information regarding
the burnings. It was also voted that two crosses would be burned
February 28, 1964, to prove that they, the Klan, was not bluffing.

At this meeting, Sam Bowers, Grand Dragon or Imperial Wizard
of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi, reported
that he attended a State meeting at Brookhaven, Mississippi, on Sun-
day, February 23, 1964. This meeting was for the purpose of creating
changes in the constitution and bylaws. These changes were necessary
since the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi had
pulled away from the Klan in Louisiana.

On February 26, 1964, Imperial Wizard Bowers reported that the
State would be divided into five districts, each corresponding with a
congressional district, and that the Wliite Knights hoped to have 30
chartered Klaverns by March 15.

June 7, 1964, the White Knights held a secret State meeting near
Raleigh, Mississippi, with nearly 300 Klansmen in attendance. At
this meeting all State officers were present. It was announced that
money collected by Donald Henshaw would be turned over to Tommy
Brock, chief bursar of Utica, Mississippi. At the time it was an-
nounced the White Knights had 62 Klaverns in 82 Mississippi coun-
ties. Speeches by State officers urged members to obtain firearms.

2936 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Imperial Wizard Bowers urged the younger members to travel to
assist law enforcement and emphasized that they should stay out of
trouble till they catch "them," referring to COFO workers, outside
of the law and then under Mississippi law "you have the right to kill
them." Bowers claimed this was the case at Ole Miss where six
United States marshals were killed because they were illegally at
Ole Miss. However, Bobby Kennedy had kept this fact secret and
would not permit it to be made known. Bowers claimed there were
97 projects working which would be completed in the iimnediate
future.

At the meeting on June 7, a printed instruction to Klansmen with
respect to action to be taken during the summer of 1964 was passed out.

During June of 1964, efforts were being made by the White Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi to obtain two members from
each Klavern throughout the State of Mississippi who would be in a
position to leave their particular areas for 2 or 3 days at a time.

June 9, 1964. Meeting near Jackson, Mississippi. Billy Buckles,
the grand giant, told those assembled that the Wliite Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan was sponsoring an ex-convict to do a job in the Jackson
area. This would cost $1,200—$400 in advance and $800 w;hen the job was completed. Buckles claimed that the job was so big it would make the death of Medgar Evers "look sick." One hundred dollars toward cost was collected from members present. June 24, 1964, a meeting of Hinds Comity Klavems was held on Greave's Plantation on the banks of the Pearl River at the west end of Elton Road near Jackson, Mississippi. Current Klan officers were in- troduced, including Imperial Wizard Bowers, Grand Dragon Harper, Grand Giant Buckles, Grand Director of KBI Gilbert, Klan Kleagle Herrington, with Herrington annomicing that the WTiite Knights had 70 Klavems in 81 counties in Mississippi. Julius Harper, Grand Dragon, told those assembled that in all future jobs the county giant would select a unit to pull the job. The county coordinator would then select a meeting place, such as a motel or restaurant, and the exalted cyclops of the unit selected would then select the members to actually pull the job. Billy Buckles, the grand giant of the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, stated that there were to be no more bombmgs of any type by the Klan in Mississippi inasmuch as bombings drew attention to the Klan too rapidly. Buckles said that there are other ways to handle things and no matter what they tell you, arson is hard to prove. Buckles suggested that all members should not pay excessive prices for this material as he could obtain rifles for$15 each, which price included
three clips of ammunition. Buckles commented that the outside agi-
tators must be stopped, even if it takes a few "busted" heads and if
necessary the Klan would go further than this to stop these agitators.
Buckles said that when the Klan members locate meeting places of
Negroes, such as Negro churches, they should throw carpet tacks on
the parking lot and disable the assembled cars by cutting their wires.
Buckles suggested that any gasoline operators who were members
should keep a good supply of sugar to pour into the gasoline tanks of
veliicles of persons working for integration. Buckles said he assumed

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2937

that all of the members present had read about the disappearance of
the three civil rights workers in Neshoba County and said — "Now,
they know what we will do. We have shown them what we will do
and we will do it again if necessary."

September 1-4, 1964. State executive meeting at the office of Norman
Jackson, Crystal Springs, Mississippi. Present along with Bowers
and other top officers was Thomas Edward Fling of Mount Olive,
Mississippi, identified during investigation as an auditor for the White
I&iights.

September 20, 1964. At a State executive meeting of the White
Knights which was held they discussed violence and the Philadelphia
murders. A. C. Herrington, klan kleagle, opposed church bomb-
ings unless COFO workers were present. Ernest Gilbert, Klan
Bureau of Investigation, favored throwing heathens out, but he op-
posed burnings or bombings. Harper, Grand Dragon, was against
burnings. Buckles, grand giant, and Bowers, Imperial Wizard, ex-
pressed Herrington's view that they opposed church bombings unless
COFO workers were present.

Bowers, Imperial Wizard, discussed the Philadelphia affair and
stated tliat if anyone was indicted each member of the "Wliite Knights
would be assessed $10 each, and each State officer$100. Bowers also
stated that if indictments Avere handed down a mass campaign would
be started against the Federal Government and the Communist
Party. The theme would be that the Federal Government was aid-
ing the Communists, who are pushing the integration movement and
Negro vote campaign. This was forcing ignorant people into acts
of violence.

September 27, 1964. A State executive meeting of the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was held on the second floor of the
Harris box factory in Meridian, Mississippi. Again the subject
discussed was violence, with Herrington opposing church bombmgs
unless COFO workers were present, and with Bowers and Buckles
concurring in these views.

On October 11, 1964, a meeting of State officers was held at Crystal
Springs, Mississippi. A resolution was adopted that the White
Knights would issue no more literature and an order was passed
down to commit no more felonies. Gilbert, the grand director of the
Klan Bureau of Investigation, desired that order read "no more vio-
lence" but this was rejected. There was discussion about the COFO
house bombing at Vicksburg, Mississippi. Bowers and John Mc-
Gregor of Jackson stated that "no one would find out anything about
Vicksburg, Mississippi, COFO house bombing." On another occa-
sion Bowers said that "they will not find out who did that one as I
sent someone in from outside."

On October 29, 1964, Bowers attended a District 8 meeting near
Petal, Mississippi. He stressed that no more churches should be
burned or bombed and no bombs should be thrown in anyone's yard.

On November 12, 1964, the White Knights held a meeting at the
Le Mar Hotel, Meridian, Mississsippi. Bowers reported that Delmar
Dennis was to be liis personal representative and B. L. Akin in charge
of all investigations in the Meridian area. All investigative matters
should be brought to Akin's attention, with all administrative matters
to be handled by Delmar Dennis.

2938 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

On November 15, 1964, a State meeting was held between Harris-
ville and Brandon, Mississippi. Principal discussion centered
aromid violence by the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mis-
sissippi. It was decided to declare a moratorium on all Projects 3
and 4, for 90 days. However, Imperial Wizard Bowers advised that
if an approved project had been planned and would be completed by
December 1, it could be carried out.

In January 1965, several meetings were called by Imperial Wizard
Bowers for the purpose of raising funds on behalf of the defendants
arrested for the murder of the three civil rights workers on June 21,
1964, in Philadelphia, Mississippi. Created for this purpose was the
White Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund. This fund was
subsequently used for other purposes, including providing defense
funds for members of the White Knights subpenaed by the committee.

On January 31, 1965, a Klan cabinet meeting was held in an aban-
doned farmhouse near a lake off Raymond Road, outside Jackson,
Mississippi. Present were B. L. Akin, Birdsong, and Bowers, together
with other State and Jackson Klavern ofl&cials. Discussion centered
around lifting the moratorium against Projects 3 and 4 and the
establishment of the defense fund known as the White Christian
Protective and Legal Defense Fund. Bowers appointed Elmore D.
Greaves as the fund head.

Bowers told those assembled that he had confidential infonnation
from high influential sources that African troops were being landed
in Cuba for extensive military training. This is why he and the
White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan had long-range plans for the
buildup and burial of arms. He elaborated that after these troops
were trained they will lead an invasion of the United States at Biloxi
and Gulf port, Mississippi. When the invasion commences. Defense
Secretary McNamara will nationalize the State Guard and turn the
Southern States over to the Negro. Whites will be relocated and
moved to the North. The Klan will be the only element to fight the
invasion. Bowers said the choice would be "to be smart and move or
to be right and fight."

On March 23, 1965, at a State meeting at Jackson, Mississippi,
Dewitt Sandifer turned over to Bowers approximately $2,500, with Bowers giving J. K. Greer$700 to $800 for legal expenses. On June 27, 1965, at a State meeting near Greenwood, Mississippi, 100 members were present, including Bowers and other officers. At this meeting they voted to send$500 to the man at Bogalusa who was
charged with killing the Negro deputy sheriff. They also gave out
instructions that each Klavern was to burn two crosses on July 1, 1965.

Buckles suggested that the job of KBI be filled temporarily at this
meeting. Bowers disagreed and said it was a permanent assignment
and should be filled through an election by the officers. Deavours Nix
was elected ; 34 units of the Klan were present at this meeting

The Chairman. Did you say at a certain meeting a certain amount
was discussed as having been sent, or would be sent, to the Bogalusa
area ? Read that again.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. The meeting was on June 27, 1965, near
Greenwood, Mississippi, and it was voted to send $500 to the man in Bc^alusa who was charged with the killing of the Negro deputy sheriff. The Chairman. As I said before, this committee has no objection, ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2939 I have no objection, nobody can have any objection, to providing de- fense counsel or funds to pay defense counsel for anyone, I don't care who he is. I am wondering, though, if that$500 reached its destina-
tion. And if we don't know that, we had better take a look at it.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in our Louisiana phase of the hearing
we identified, as the result of the committee investigation, the boy
arrested in that as being a member of the Klan in Louisiana.

The CHAIR3IAN. That was not my question.

Mr. Appell. We do not know whether this money has been received.

The Chairman. Did you send it ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. We have evidence, Mr, Bowers, to the effect that
the 'Wliite Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund, as a matter
of fact, was — ^it was described to us as placing buckets and jugs,
as I remember the testimony, throughout Mississippi restaurants,
hotels, motels, places of business, and elsewhere, and that it was pre-
tended that this was a project of non-Klan members, but that in fact
it was a Klan operation and that large sums of money were raised
during that campaign. Do you have anything to say about that?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Information came to us that, despite the allegations,
protestations, about sobriety and Christianity and everything else, as
I recall, large sources of revenues were picked up by this defense
fund, from buckets or jugs placed in drinking places, and that the
more the people imbibed, the more they put in the buckets and jugs.
You don't have any knowledge about that 'i

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. All right; proceed.

Mr. Appell. At the meeting of June 27, a printing bill was sub-
mitted for $396 for printing costs of posters "I Want You" for the White Knights of Mississippi. The Chairman. Is that the poster that was exhibited to us some time ago? Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. ^ The Chairman. In my opinion, that is a low blow, Mr. Bowers. And I say that as chairman. I am sorry to say that. I don't use that kind of language when presiding, but the use of a poster "I Want You" imitating the famous poster of Uncle Sam calling soldier boys — "I Want You" — in my opinion is a low blow. Go on. Mr. Appell. On July 11, 1965, a meeting of province officers was held in Room 337, King Edward's Hotel, Jackson, Mississippi. Bowers instructed them to have a "job" in each province throughout Mississippi and that this plan was designed to spread thin the agents of the FBI located in Mississippi. Bowers reported that Billy Bird- song, who had given him more trouble than any other Klansman, had been whipped. On July 18, 1965, a meeting of kleagles was held south of Jackson, Mississippi. Nix, the grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investi- gation, shook everyone down for "bugs" or recording devices. Bowers 2940 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. claimed that the White Knights in the Laurel area were responsible for over 16 burnings and bombings in Ihe Laurel area. He referred to Laurel as the "Smokestack City." On August 8, 1965, a meeting was held at Byram, Mississippi, south of Jackson. Bowers offered a resolution forbidding White Knights of Ku Klux Klan to associate with members of the United Klans of America. On Aug^ist 22, at a meeting near Florence, Mississippi,$500 was
sent to assist three men arrested for arson in Greenwood, Mississippi.

On November 10, 1965, Bowers discussed reorganizing the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan under a plan described as Rule 5. Under
the rule, the exalted cy clops picks four unit heads and they in turn each
selected four trusted Klansmen to meet with each group separately.
By this reorganization Bowers hoped to frustrate the FBI infiltration.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Bowers is in
possession of additional information which is both pertinent and rele-
vant to this inquiry and would materially aid Congress in the enact-
ment of remedial legislation.

The Chairman. Mr. Bowers, you have heard the sworn statement
of the committee's investigator. You now have the opportunity to
reply to any portion of that statement, to confirm or challenge the
accuracy of the information, or to explain any part of it. In addition,
you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the committee may deem
relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to take advantage of that
opportunity ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. I must inform you, Mr. Bowers, that I indeed agree
with Mr. Appell's statement to the effect that you possess a great deal
of information which you could supply this committee as an aid in
providing remedial legislation. But in any event, you may now, if
you desire, offer any other matter the committee may deem relevant
to this inquiry. Do you care to take advantage of that opportunity ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. Mr. Witness, I must inform you that, absent your
rebuttal or other facts that may come to the attention of the subcom-
mittee, the committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.
Having that in mind, do you now want to say anything ? And by that
I mean, and specifically include, relating to the objects, the purposes,
the objectives, the good that you know about klanism. I invite you to
do that. You may say anything you want. You may praise it to the
sky. I have asked so many witnesses that the record is going to look
very odd when not a single leader — including Imperial Wizards, if you
don't come forward — has volunteered to say one single, solitary word
about what is good about klanism. Why don't you say what is good, in
your opinion? You joined this; you must have believed in it. Let's put
it in the record right now. Do you care to take advantage of that
opportunity ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. All right. Anything else ?

Mr. Appell, The staff has no further questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.

ACTIVITIES OF KIT KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2941

The Chairman. Mr, Buchanan.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Bowers, you are quoted as having said some-
thing to the effect that if it is necessary to eliminate someone, it should
be done in silence, without malice, in the manner of a Christian act.
Am I to understand if murder is committed in silence and without
malice it can become a Christian act ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Buchanan. No further questions.

Mr. Appell. I would like to make a closing statement for the record,
Mr. Chairman.

The Chairivian. All right.

Mr. Appell. The subpena of Mr. Bowers called upon him to pro-
duce retained copies of corporate tax returns relating to the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. I do not ask Mr.
Bowers to produce those documents because we have been advised by
the Treasury Department that no return was filed.

The Chairman. Have you filed individual income tax returns?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. According to our information, and I believe it is
right, corporate returns were not filed either. Did you receive any
money of any kind, from one nickel on up, as a result of your associa-
tion with the Klan group that you headed ?

Mr. Bowers. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

The Chairman. The witness is excused and the subcommittee stands
in recess until 2 :30.

(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Willis and Buchanan.)

(Whereupon, at 1 :30 p.m., Tuesday, February 1, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 :30 p.m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 1966

(The subcommittee reconvened at 3 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis,
chairman, presiding.)

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and
Buchanan.)

The Chairman. The subcommittee will come to order.

Call your first witness for the afternoon, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Ernest S. Gilbert, Jr.

The Chairman. Please raise your right hand. Do you solenmly
swear, sir, that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Gilbert. I do.

2942 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

TESTIMONY OF ERNEST S. GILBERT, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, state your full name for the record.

Mr. Gilbert. Ernest S. Gilbert, Jr.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with a subpena
served upon you on the 30th day of October 1965, at 114 Main Street,
Natchez, Mississippi, by John D. Sullivan, an investigator of this
committee ?

Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Room 501, First Federal
Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, 114 Main Street, Natchez, Mississippi,
is that the headquarters of the United Klans of America, Realm of
Mississippi ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reasons that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incrim-
inate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments
5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, Investigator Sullivan, who sits to my
right, advises me that the place that you were served was the head-
quarters of the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi, in
Natchez, Mississippi. Is the information which he supplies factual?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Gilbert ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon groimds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
give for the record his place and date of birth.

The Chairman. Yes, I will order and direct you to answer that
question. It is preliminary exploration. It is perfectly usual. It cannot
possibly incriminate you. It is a fact that ought to be in the record.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, in 1963, were you a member of the Original
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana, the Realm of Mississippi?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully declme to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. When a group of members of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of Louisiana broke from that organization and
several of its leaders were banished by Royal V. Young, the Imperial
Dragon, w^as a temporary organization to become known as the White
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi organized?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based on the grounds previously stated.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2943

Mr. Appell. Prior to the election of Sam H. Bowers as the Imperial
Wizard of the new organization known as the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, were you temporarily placed in charge
of that organization ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that with the election of Mr. Bowers as the Im-
perial Wizard you were elected to the position of grand director of
the Klan Bureau of Investigation.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, as grand director of the Klan Bureau
Investigation, you possess knowledge of violence carried out by mem-
bers of the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. It is the results of
the committee's investigation that many of these persons who held
membership in the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan now hold
membership in the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi.

Is this information factual ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, as grand director of the Klan Bureau
of Investigation, did you make an investigation to determine whether
or not members of the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan were
involved in the murder of Henry Dee and Charles Moore, whose bodies
were found in the "Old River" ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. James Ford Seale, one of the two arrested, is he now
a member of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. In a recent release put out by the United Klans of
America, the Imperial Wizard, Mr. Robert Shelton, acknowledged
what, in my recollection, was the first time that there are possibly mis-
fits within the United Klans of America. Are these people who were
engaged in acts of violence while members of the White Knights and
who are now members of the United Klans of America some of the
misfits to whom Imperial Wizard Shelton was referring?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, when Mr. Shelton spoke at a rally of the
United Klans of America near Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and he
charged that Mayor Henry Bucklew's charges linking the White
Knights with violence in Laurel, Mississippi, and described that as
political expediency, had he discussed with you, as the former grand
director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation, as to whether or not
members of the "Wliite Knights had been involved in a series of bomb-
ings and burnings in Laurel, Mississippi?

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4-

2944 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, was Paul Foster the first grand chaplain
of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that he is presently the Grand Klaliff or vice president of the
Realm of Mississippi of the United Klans of America.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gilbert, I hand you several newspaper clippings
relating to the removal of a body from its grave because of com-
plaints made by the Klan that Black Muslims were concealing arm
caches in this and other graves.

The newspaper account that I handed you reveals that the original
complaint was made to the deputy sheriff of Washington County by
J. R. Wood of Greenville. Do you know him to be a member of the
United Klans of America ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. The account in the Jackson, Mississippi, Clarion-
Ledger reads that :

The Mississippi Kleagle of the United Klans from Brookhaven, Ernest Gilbert,
accompanied by fellow Klansman, F. L. Malone of Brookhaven, arrived on the
scene in Malone's specially equipped radio car * * *.

Please tell the committee the use made of citizens band radios and
walkie-talkie radios by the United Klans in Mississippi.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Documents marked "Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 1." The Clarion-
Ledger article follows :)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2945

Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 1
[Jackson, Miss., Clarion- Ledger , Novembjcr 16, 1965)

Report Of Arms Cache False;
Officials Begin Probe^Of Klaii

By KENNETH TOLLIVER ! He revealed thaT Sunday! tolSarch up and down the roaJ.
(See picture on Page 6.) morning J. R. Wood, a suspect-[I put a stop to that."

GREENVILLE — An appar- ed Klansman, summoned Oep-i Fi.'^her told reporters that as
ent bid for publicity by the uty Fisher to his home to give darkness fell the KKK became
United Klans of .\merica in him details about some hidden more anxious to have the grave
Mississippi may have backfired 'arms. opened and called him con-

Tuesday as authorities blasted "He told me last week he be- stanlly on the phone asking for
the organization and began an lieved the Black Muslims were results,
investigation of KKK activity, sneaking guns into the area, but I finally called the county

The rumble nf the wrath of, at that time he said he didn't executive Cyclops of the United
Washington County law enforce- know where they were kept," Klans. Dr. Everett, Mitchell, a
ment agencies rolled across the Fisher said. Greenville physical therapist,

state touching the Attorney Fisher said that while at and a.sked him if he was in
General's office, the Governor's Wood's house he saw 'stacks of (^y^^, ^^,j,y, j^,^ members and
Mansion and the Highway Pa- Klan literature" and while he ^^^^ ^^ ^.^jj ygj. j y^\^ "(,;„, j

"■o!^ , . ,. . Y\ '^i''-"^ u*''*" ^'"!!^-, "f"*^" was doing all I could and they
The wave of indignation was denly these hree rough looking ^^^, ^e patient," Fisher con-
sparked by charges brought by characters stepped out from be- {jp^jpfj

members of the United Klans of hind a curtain." ^^^ Missis.sippi Kleagle of the
America Sunday that weapons He said they told him hey ^,^,(g^ ^j^^ f/^^ Rr^khaven.
for the Black Muslims were knew where the Black Mus ims g^^^^, f,,^, , ^^^^^^^^,^ by
buried ,n Negro churches and were h:d,ng guns a n d they Kian^p^an. F. L Malone
cemeteries across the stale. wanted to make a deal. "They , Rrnothsvpn arrived on the
In Greenville Klansmen led wanted a reasonable portion of "' m,,„L ,n^iJn!
Washington County deputies to the guns and ammunition," he L^,f„!I2, " ^^ n2r F..hL „ h
a recent Negro grave and told explained. "They said they ^"'PI^ '^^<^'" ^'"^' ^'^^^' '"'"*'•
them it contained — "automa- 1 wanted to use them to protect _, ^'-'pli'T NO CREDI'T
tic weapons, ammunition and white people." They told reporters they
maybe a machinegun." Fi.sher left saving he could "'^i <^ *« '"^^l law enforce-
NO GUNS ' not make .such a deal, but lat- '^^' P^^P'^ '" Bel full credit.
When the grave was opened er when he returned to talk fur- Jhe lileaj^le tciid newsmen
Monday morning, it was found ther with the group thev told t^al he ftstimated 'more than
to contain a simple coffin and him they had "been in "touch ^^ J""' h^" ^'^ smuggled
no weapons of any kind. with headquarters and it's okay >nt«> tie state and were hidden
In a special press conference to cooperate with vou." m Negro graves and Churches,
called by authorities, reporters They then led Deputy Fisher Deputy Fisher .said that Klea-
were told that "the wraps were to a Negro cemetery near g'p Gilbert offered the .services
being taken from the Klan op- Greenville and pointed out the '^^ ^^^ ^nen. Fisher said that Gil-
eration." grave of James Turner, 64, who ^ert told him," One of our mem-
Referring to the opening of had been buried Nov. 4. ^^^s is in tears out there think-
the grave Monday morning, WANTED REPORTERS '"? ^bout those guns."
Wa.shington County Chief Depu- "They said thev had been Greenville Chief of Police
ty Earl Fisher said," This was watching the cemetery and were ^- ^ Burnley referred In the
done to disprove once and for pretty sure that guns were in Klansmen as a "bunch n{ nuts
all that Negroes are not stash- the grave. They wanted ABC, *'th crazy ideas fighting for the
ing guns. The Black Muslims NBC, CBS and the Jackson survival of their stupid organi-
and the Deacons for Defen.se newspapers on hand when the zati"""

are not in here creating an up- grave was opened." Fisher told ^ suspected Klansmen accom-
rising." reporters. panied the authorities to the
Working in the dark foggy Fearing a not if the rumors gi'^v^ ""^ reported back to Gil-
graveyard, heavily armed po- reached the public. Fisher said ^^ ^f'^r the grave was open-
lice pried the hd from a wood- he requested a riot squad fron> ed^

en vault holding the casket and the (Treenville police — He" then Meanwhile Klansmen with

found nothing to further such telephoned the Attorney Gener- '*" " way radio equipped cars,

'"^r'T . u , «"" J3ck.son and told him about ^""^^ , *'*^ Tennessee tags,

"We had reason to believe ,^6 situation. "He said to con- '^''''^^ '^'^ ^^'R^^^^y "*^^ '»^«

hat a felonv, that of grave (jnue the investigation," Fisher f^^^^^^'"!'. . . , .^

tampering, might have been ^^^^ ^ Special investigators from the

committed and we obtained per- ..^^^ ^^^^ j^,.^,^ ^^ 3^^. Highway Pa t r o 1 arrived in

mission from the next of k;n j, ^^^ ^^^ ^^ j^^^ anyone Greenville Tue,<;day to begin

to open the grave." Fisher said.if^^^ ,3^, ^^^ ^^^ ]>,^,j their own inve.stigation into the

•We did not have a court order ^ they could patrol up and incident. They were apparently

to open the coffin Itself, but our ,,■>',*', 1^ infere.sted in the Klan claim

investigation indicated it had J^"'^; J f ^^ the r ad « that "we have been watching the

""^ RFLA^?,NnDENTS equip^TcaTs, Fisher expTat ^-'^'^, ,f . Negroes i^ three

ln''tL';Trsrc'o™c?Dep.'^"l-l ^^^ ^-dly turned '^^^a a^e^ '^'"^ "^ ^""^

uty Fisher related the chain of around before one of them had 8 . ^ governor's

incidents with Klan members : ^".^^-^''^ \"d \ "^ m''""?,'' ' ofLindicaT^) that Gov. John-

which led to the event. • I '»-"«''' "ve-- ^'s shoulder all set °^'*''.j "tested "

2946 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. The news account then quotes you as saying, "more
than 5,000 guns had been smuggled into the state and were hidden in
Negro graves and Churches." If that statement is factual, Mr. Gil-
bert, please give the committee the benefit of the knowledge the United
Klans of America possesses in this regard.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Did the United Klans of America have any basis upon
which to make this charge to the Washington County Sheriff's De-
partment, which resulted m the removal of a body from the grave and
a search of his coffin for concealed arms ?

Mr, Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of pi-ivi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Gilbert.

Ernest S. Gilbert was born on June 13, 1925, in Smith County,
Mississippi. His educational background is unknown to the staff.
During the early part of 1965, he was employed as a driller with the
Smith Petroleum Company, Brookhaven, Mississippi. Mr. Gilbert
was a leader of the Realm of Mississippi of the Original Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan which had its headquarters in Louisiana. In late
1965, because of mismanagement of Original Knight funds

The Chairman. You say the headquarters in Louisiana. Is that in
the area of the Bossier-Shreveport area ?

Mr. Appell. As a result of mismanagement of Original Knight
funds by J. D. Swenson, dissension grew and resulted in certain Mis-
sissippi Klansmen being banished. After the banishment of Douglas
A. Byrd and E. L. McDaniel and others, they and their followers broke
from the Original Knights and formed the White Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi. Ernest Gilbert was elected or appointed
temporary head of the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mis-
issippi in late 1963. Mr, Gilbert, E. L.— nicknamed Tiny — Lewis, and
Douglas Byrd were part of a committee which drafted the White
Knights constitution. With the election of the White Knights offi-
cers in February 1964, Gilbert was chosen grand director of the Klan
Bureau of Investigation, a position he held until June 1965, when he
joined the United Klans of America, becoming its grand kleagle or
State organizer, a position which he presently holds. Gilbert was the
exalted cyclops of the original Klavern in Lincoln County, Mississippi.
As grand director of the Klan Bureau of Investigation, Gilbert was
responsible for gathering intelligence necessary for the Wliite Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi to carry out acts of intimidation
or violence by the State or by local Klaverns with State approval.
Gilbert attended numerous meetings at which violence was planned or
discussed.

In May 1964, he attended a meeting in the Salvage House of Algene
Price located at Key Field, Meridian, Mississippi, at which Preacher
Edgar Ray Killen presided. Killen was later arrested in connec-
tion with the slaying of the tliree civil rights workers in Phila-
delphia, Mississippi.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2947

On June 7, 1964, he attended a meeting n'ear Raleigh, Mississippi,
where Klansmen were urged to obtain firearms and members were
advised that the White Knights had 97 projects working through the
State. At this meeting a printed instruction captioned "Harras-
ment" [sic] was given to the some 300 Klansmen present.

On Jime 24, 1964, Gilbert attended a meeting of Hinds County
Klavem near Jackson where the grand giant discussed future proj-
ects, in which he stated that the province giant would select a unit
to pull a job; the county coordinator would select a meeting place
for the unit to discuss the details; thereafter the EC of the unit
selected to pull the job would select the members to carry out its
completion.

On September 20, 1964, Gilbert was part of a discussion on vio-
lence, in which he opposed burning or bombing churches but approved
other forms of violence against what he described as "heathens" who
used churches to hold meetings.

On September 29, 1964, Gilbert and V. T. Purser requested Grand
Dragon Julius Harper for the State to burn or stinkbomb the Menon-
ite School for Wayward Girls, which was being used as COFO

In January 1965, Gilbert attended the first of several meetings relat-
ing to the formation of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and
the Wliite Christian Protective and Legal Defense Fund.

July 16, 1965, spoke at a public rally held at the Crossroads Com-
munity, Poplarville, Mississippi. He was introduced as grand kleagle
for the UKA. He was accompanied on the platform by former mem-
bers of the White Knights, C. J. Seal, now a titan of the United
Klans of America; E. L. McDaniel, Grand Dragon for the United
Klans of America; Louis DiSalvo, also on the platform; and Saxon
Farmer and Ovied Dunaway.

The Chairman. Is that Farmer of Louisiana?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. And Ovied Dunaway, exalted cyclops of
the Original Knights in Bogalusa, together with Jack Helm, a
Louisiana Realm official from New Orleans, Louisiana.

On October 28, 1965, Gilbert was on the platform at a public rally
with Imperial Wizard Shelton near Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Gilbert pos-
sesses additional information whicli is both pertinent and relevant
to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting
remedial legislation.

The Chairman. Mr. Gilbert, you have heard the statement of Mr.
Appell, who you know is under oath just like you are. You now have
the opportunity to reply to any portion of that statement, confinn or
challenge the accuracy of the information, or to explain any part of the
statement. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter
the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Do you care to take
advantage of this opportunity ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. In that case, Mr. Gilbert, absent your rebuttal or
other facts which may come to the attention of the committee, this
committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation. Bearing
this in mind, do you have anything to say ?

2948 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

The CHAiRjvrAN. Do you have anything more ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Gilbert, I hand you two photographs taken during the rally
held at Crossroads Community in Poplai-ville, Mississippi. I ask you
to advise the committee as to the reason or purpose that persons shown
in this photograph are dressed in black robes with black hoods, and
even those in white robes carrying sidearms.

The Chairman. Doing what ?

Mr. Appell. Carrying sidearms, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Do you care to say what you were explaining to
your counsel? And I don't want to pry into consultations at all now.
But if you have anything to say, sir, now is the time to say it. If you
don't know anything about it, why don't you say so?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Let me hand you back the one photograph and invite
your attention to the man who has a camera in his hand whose back is
in the photograph. I ask you whether or not that is yourself.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I hand you another photograph and ask you to observe
the Klansman in a red robe. I then ask you if that is Charles Stewart
whom you have been seated with this morning and who is on the front
row on the seats to the left as you look to the rear of the room.

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions.

The Chairman. I see in this photograph, the one just handed to you,
where it was indicated that you were the person in the photograph
with your back turned, that some of the individuals, some of the peo-
ple in this photograph, have red marks or Indian signs or something
on their faces. Do you know what that stands for ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. Honest to goodness now, Mr. Gilbert, isn't that
silly ? Take a look at that.

(Photograph handed to witness.)

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based on the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. Yet, on the other photograph that I hand you I
see some people with sidearms, meaning pistols, with gun belts and
cartridges all around their belts. That doesn't seem to be silly, that
seems to be deadly serious to me. Wliat does it seem to you ?

Mr. Gilbert. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Photographs marked "Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 2" follow:)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.
Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 2

2949

Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 2— Continued

2950 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLTJX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 2— Continued

^^^^i

■>w -.

J

Photographs taken during rally at Crossroads Community, Poplarville, Miss.

The Chairman. Do you have any further questions?

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. The witness is excused. Call your next witness.

Mr. Appell. Joseph Carlton Brown.

Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, this witness affirms.

The Chairman. Do you solemnly affirm to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth ?

Mr. Brown. I do.

Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, before Mr. Appell asks the witness
any questions, the subpena has written over it "James Carlton Brown"
and "James" is stricken out and above it is written "Joseph." I would
like for the subpena that I have to be corrected or the one the commit-
tee has to be corrected by letting me ask the reverened his true name.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Chalmers. It is Joseph Carlton Brown, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Thank you.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2951

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH CARLTON BROWN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Brown, would you state your full name for the
record ?

Mr. Brown. Joseph Carlton Brown.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with the
subpena served upon you on the 29th day of October 1965 by John D.
Sullivan, an investigator of this committee?

Mr. Brown. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Brown ?

Mr. Brown. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record ?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Brown, when and where were you born?

Mr. Brown. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of America.

Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee the benefit of your
educational background ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Will you give the committee a resume of your employ-
ment background from 1960?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. I don't think you ought to do that. Reverend. I
understand you are a minister and I really don't think you ought to
do that. Why don't you tell us what you do ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Brown, are you acquainted with an individual
who resided in McComb by the name of Billy Earl Wilson ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Brown, Billy Earl Wilson testified before this
committee on January 18, 1966, in public session. In the course of
his testimony, after he had identified himself as being a onetime
member of the United Klaus of America in Mississippi and after he
had testified that he was assigned to a Klavern of the United Klans of
America, which he did not know the number of but vrhich the com-
mittee investigation establishes to be No. TOO, he identified as the
exalted cyclops of that Klavern Ray Smithj who is employed by the
telephone company in McComb, MississippL He was asked in con-
nection with the officers of that Klavern as to the identity of the kludd
or the chaplain, and he identified as the kludd or chaplain the Rev-
erend J. C. Brown. Was Mr. Wilson's testimony truthful ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the gi'ounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson testified that after he was arrested he was
visited, together with his other nine codefendants, by the Reverend
J. C. Brown. Is his testimony truthful?

2952 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Would you tell the committee why you visited Billy
Earl Wilson and the other defendants while they were in jail following
their arrests?

Mr. Bkown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. The other defendant, Paul Dewey Wils.on, at the time
you were the kludd or chaplain of the Klavem, was he the klaliff or vice
president of the Klavern ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Murphy John Duncan, another of the defendants,
was he the klabee or treasurer of the Klavern ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Did you also know Murphy John Duncan to be the
grand klabee or grand treasurer of the United Klans of America,
Realm of Mississippi ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. At the time you visited Billy Earl Wilson in jail, did
you advise him that the Imperial Wizard Shelton was going to assess
every member of the United Klans of America to help pay their at-
torney fees, court costs, and other expenses ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Brown, I will now read you from Billy Earl Wil-
son's testimony, who was asked about his plea, and he said that he
pleaded nolo contendere, and continued :

Yes, sir, nolo contendere, I was sentenced to 6 months in jail and a $500 fine. This 6 months was to be suspended, and the$500 fine had to be paid within a
weeli's time, plus the cost of court, which was $78. So all told, I had to get hold of$578, I believe, is the right amount.

About Wednesday of that week Brother Brown sent word to me for me to
stop over at his home, which I did. He gave me $2.50, which was half of my fine, and also gave me$78, which was all the costs of the court. That, as far as I
knew then, I was just about in the same shape as I was in before. be<"ause I
didn't have the money, you know, to match the other, for the half of it.

So my grandad — I might say he is a real nice guy — let me have the other half
of the money, which I went down Immediately the next afternoon from work,
and I paid all my fines and everything.

Mr. Appell. What about the fee that you had to pay for an attorney to de-
fend you in this action?

Mr. Wilson. My aunts and uncles, and what little money I had, they all went
together and tried for a lawyer, and I think they asked about two, I think, and
finally wound up with Mr. L. S. McClaren. As a retainer, he said he had to
have $500, which they all went together and made up the money, and they didn't have it, and he was my lawyer. Mr. Appell. So that of the$500 that you had to pay your attorney and the
$500, plus court costs, that you were fined, the United Klans of America, of which you Avere a formal member and for which you engaged in these acts as a result of action formally taken within a Klavern chamber, paid then$100. I
guess, toward your attorney fees, one-half of your fine in the amount of $250, and the$78 court costs, or a total of $428. Mr. Wilson. As far as I know, that money that was raised that we received was raised right there, you know, in town, by — it may be some members that were in the Klan, but I imagine there was a lot of them that wasn't in the Klan ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2953 that let us have some money. So far as I know, to actually say that I received money, I can't, because I don't know. Did Billy Earl Wilson receive from you a total of$428^

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
ba,sed upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Where was the money obtained which you used to re-
imburse Billy Earl Wilson and the other nine defendants in that
action ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appeli.. If Billy Earl Wilson received $428 and there were defendants and they each received equal shares, it would be close to$4,000 that was collected. Did any of this money come from the United
Klans of America imperial office in Tuscaloosa, Alabama?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that none of this money came
from the United Klans of America imperial office in Tuscaloosa, Ala-
bama. I ask you to affirm or deny that fact.

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Reverend Brown, can you explain to me how it was
that Imperial Wizard Shelton would deny to me, in an interview, that
these McComb people were even members of the United Klans of
America ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of Mr. Brown.

The Chairman. Sir, my information is that you are a minister of
the Gospel, and I am not, believe me, undertaking to delve into your
religious beliefs or to reproach you or lecture in the least.. It is my
recollection — and this recollection is in general terms — that Mr. Wil-
son did not say that you had obtained the money that you gave him
from Klan members or from Klan headquarters or from Klan lead-
ers. In fact, I got the general impression — and I may be wrong as to
the details — that Mr. Wilson was at least implying you might have
or probably did raise this money locally. I want to tell you, sir, as I
have said many, many times before, if you did raise money for the
defense of this young man or anybody in trouble, you would be doing
absolutely nothing wrong. Could you tell us hoAv you went about
raising that money ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. I Avould even tell you, sir, that, if you did relate
that, it wouldn't subject you to a continuous line of cross-examination
on my part. I would be curious to know how you did raise that money
and do what I assume you thought to be an act of kindness. Why
can't you tell us tliat ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

2954 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

The Chairman. It is my recollection also that this young man, Wil-
son, who got himself in an awful mess of trouble, said that he joined the
Klan organization because he believed what had been represented to
him, to the effect that that organization, in addition to standing for
other things, such as Christianity, which we will overlook for the time
being, stood for segregation of the races. He said that. I think it is
true, and that brought no opposition from me, nor did it subject him
to any cross-examination on my part.

Anyway, after having said what he was going to stand on and hav-
ing gotten in trouble, and believing in it originally, he came to the con-
clusion that klanism was not the answer to racial segregation or inte-
gration. Would you care to address yourself to that?

Mr, Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Brown, you have been identified by our in-
vestigation as the kludd or chaplain of a Klavem, and therefore I as-
sume you are its spiritual adviser. Do you feel there are circum-
stances which justify bombings and make them acceptable or
Christian acts?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Buchanan. You are a man in a position of some influence and
are in a position to influence young people to join or not to join such
an organization as the Klan. Do you feel that the activities of the
Klan are such that this is a good and healthy organization for young
people who might be under your influence to join ?

Mr. Brown. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. The witness is excused.

The committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow
morning.

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and
Buchanan.)

(Whereupon, at 3 :50 p.m., Tuesday, February 1, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, February 2,
1966.)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES

Part 4

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1966

United States House of Representatives,

Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington^ D.C.

PUBLIC HEARINGS

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
as reconstituted for the February 2 hearings, met, pursuant to recess,
at 10:30 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building,
Washington, D.C, Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas,
chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and John M. Ashbrook,
of Ohio.)

Subcommittee mem'bers present : Representatives Pool, Weltner, and
Ashbrook.

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator ; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.

The Chair wishes to make this announcement: Mr. Edwin Willis,
the chairman of this subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-
American Activities, is not able to be here today, and he has redes-
ignated the subcommittee to hear the witnesses this morning, and here
is the authority for that :

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities consisting
of Honorable Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. Weltner and
Honorable John M. Ashbrook as associate members, to conduct hearings in
Washington, D.C, on Wednesday, February 2, 1966, as contemplated by the
resolution adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing
hearings concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in
the United States.

Please make this action a matter of Committee record.

If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me.

Given under my hand this 2nd day of February, 1966.

Mr. Appell, are you ready for your next witness ?
Mr. Appell. Yes, sir ; Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. Emmett
Thomhill,Sr.

Mr. Pool. Will you raise your right hand, please?

2955

2956 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing by the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Thornhill. I do.

Mr. Alford. Mr. Chairman, Louis Alford, attorney.
Mr. Pool. Just a minute.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN" EMMETT THORNHILL, SR., ACCOMPANIED
BY COUNSEL, LOUIS ALFORD

Mr, Appell. Mr. Thornhill, will you state your full name for the
record ?

Mr. Thornhill. John Emmett Thornhill.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a
subpena served upon you on the 29th day of October 1965 by John D.
Sullivan, an investigator of this committee ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, are you represented by counsel?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?

Mr. Alford. Louis Alford, attorney at law, McComb, Mississippi.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, when and where were you born?

Mr. Thornhill. In 1908, in Walthall County, Mississippi.

Mr. Appell. If you will, put that microphone a little bit closer to
you, as the acoustics in this room are terrible.

Mr. Thornhill. All right, sir.

Mr. Appell. We will hear you a little better.

Now, would you tell us where, the montli, and the day? I didn't
get that. I heard the year 1908.

Mr. Thornhill. October the 29, 1908, in Walthall County, State
of Mississippi.

Mr. Appell. Mr, Thornhill, would you give the committee a brief
resume of your educational background ?

Mr. Thornhill. I didn't get any education.

Mr. Appell. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
employment background since 1960 ?

Mr. Thornhill. In 1960?

Mr. Appell. Since 1960, sir.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, farmer, and in the oil business. Independent
operator.

Mr. Appell. In the oil business ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And what was the first thing that you said? I didn't
hear that.

Mr. Thornhill. Farming.

Mr. Appell. Oh, farming.

Mr. Thornhill. I own my own farm.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Thornhill, under the subpena served upon you, there is an
attachment which is made a part of the subj^ena, and it commands for
you to bring with you and to produce :

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2957

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klaus, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affili-
ated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in your possession,
custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or past
member of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan.

I ask you, Mr. Thornhill, whether you have any such documents in
your possession, and if you will produce them in accordance with the
subpena ?

(Witness confers w^ith counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I have none.

Mr. Alford. Mr. Chainnan, the only thing that may be interpreted
as falling within that category are three canceled checks, which

Mr. Pool. Well, now, I would like to have the witness say whatever
he wants to on that.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I have no records.

Mr. Pool. You have no records ?

Mr. Appell. Would you produce the checks which

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, the first check which you produced is a
check drawn on the First National Bank of McComb, Mississippi, pay-
able to Radio Station WHNY, in the amount of $17, dated June 1, 1964. The other is a check on the same bank in the amount of$25, dated
June 2, 1964, to Radio Station WAPF; and the third check on the
same bank, dated June 3, 1964, in the amount of $63, is payable to the Enterprise-J aurnal^ all checks signed J. E. Thornhill. Mr. Thornhill, can you explain to the committee how these checks fall within the purview of the subpena and the purpose for which they were drawn? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Pool. Let's see the checks. Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir ; I can answer that. Those checks were give — they got me to run an ad on each radio, put spots on the radios for Mr. Shelton's speech, which he was going to make at the fairground in McComb ; also, run an ad in the paper. So that's what the checks w^as give for. (Checks marked "John Thornhill Exhibit No. 1" follow:) 2958 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. John Thornhill Exhibit No. 1 MR. OR MRS. J. E. THORNHILL p. O. BOX c SmfMiT, ivlississipp: TO THE / ^ Z/' J' :7^''-T^ /y. r,n^>- "^ Dollars 3^^ L^A •:qe>5 3"'00^ii: 52 Eon,*- MR. OR MRS. J. F. THORNHILL p. O. BOX C StrMMTT, Mississippi y^n^roK *( ^ A-;;^> J^/^^!^ \//Afr ^ ^^T^ X^^^MJ^ -R^ ^'0^^^ ' T^*^ •• DoLLARi MCCOMB r i:0&5 3'"00'^li: 5 2 &0E mr" ([^ /C^^y.^.^../^^^ MR. OR MRS. J. E. THORNHILL p. O. BOX ". StJMMiT, Missr>sirpi Pt^^'the Y iTT C . h 7 1 loRUF.R O K '-...r-t I '^■--'^ i- Al- 4 C For ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2959 Mr. Appell. Aiid the Mr. Shelton that you are referring to is the Imperial Wizard of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Wio approached you for the purpose (ff paying the radio stations and the newspaper for this advertisement? Mr. Thorxhill. Well, I just don't remember. I can't recall right now just who did do that. Mr. Appell. At the time that you were approached to make these payments, covering advertisement for a speech to be made by Imperial Wizard Shelton, were you a member of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. And when did you first join the United Klans of America ? Mr. Thornhill. I don't remember that. Mr. Appell. Can you fix it roughly as to the early part of 1964 or late 1963 ? Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; I don't remember. Mr. Appell. At the time that you gave the checks in June, can you recall approximately how many months you had been, at that time ? Mr. Thornhill. Three or four months, something like that. Mr. Appell. Three or four months ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Explain to the committee the circumstances under which you became a member of the United Klans of America. Mr. Thornhill. What do you mean by that, now ? Mr. Appell. Well, how did you become? Did you seek membership or did someone approach you for the purpose of becoming a member or just what were the circumstances? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir; someone approached me to join the United Klans. Mr. Appell. And who approached you ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, now, I (Witness confers with counsel. ) Mr. Thornhill. Mr. Chairman, with respect, I decline to answer on the grounds that my answer might tend to involve me. I refuse to answer it, based on the right give me under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments to the Constitution of the United States. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, in refusing to answer that question, do you rely upon an oath of secrecy which is administered to Klansmen ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. I didn't hear you. Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. In other words, your refusal to answer that question is because as a Klansman, you were administered an oath of secrecy which you subscribe to ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir ; and this I just read. Mr. Appell. I think that for the purpose of the record, if you will say, when you desire to refer to the constitutional privileges which you invoked earlier, if you say that it is for the grounds previously stated, the record will reflect all of the reasons which you state. 59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 5 2960 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Thornhill. Yes, on the grounds that previously just was stated. Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that Mr. Thornhill, in response to a question, stated that among the reasons he refused to answer was the oath of secrecy that he took, I ask that he be directed to answer the last question. Mr. Pool. Well, as I understand him, he took the fifth amendment also. Mr. Appell. Not with respect to whether or not among his reasons was the oath of secrecy which was given to Klansmen. Mr. Pool. Wliy don't you restate your question. You are talking about his reasons, and that is a little different from trying to get a factual answer. I don't think I should direct him on that. Restate your question, and maybe I can direct him. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, I asked you if, in refusing to answer the question as to the identity of the person that solicited your mem- bership in the United Klans of America, you were relying upon an oath of secrecy administered to Klansmen. You said "yes." Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. I then asked you whether or not you relied upon the oajth of secrecy which you took as a Klansman, and you then invoked constitutional privileges, the reasons previously stated. Have I summarized that properly ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, I understand it better now; yes. Well, that's the same answer. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. On the grounds previously stated on the matter. Mr. Pool. Well, Mr. Thornhill, you are refusing to answer on the fifth amendment and not on your oath of secrecy that you took as a Klansman ; is that correct ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir ; on the fifth amendment. Mr. Appell. It was my opinion, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Thornhill had waived his invocation by his "yes" answer to the first question asked. Mr. Pool. But you are satisfied with his answer now. Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Mr. Pool. Fine. Mr. Appell. In addition to the three checks that you submitted in payment for two radio advertisements and a newspaper advertise- ment of a rally at which the Imperial Wizard, Mr. Shelton, was going to speak, have you made any additional financial contributions to the United Klans of America, or for its use ? Mr. Thornhill. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Did you pay an initiation fee into the United Klans of America ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Did you purchase a robe within the organization ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Did you pay dues to the organization ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. And what was the rate of dues that you paid ? ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2961 (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Dollar and a half a month. Mr. Appell. In summary, the$10.00 — and I might ask, did you
pay a fee of $10.00 as an initiation fee, or did you pay more ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill.$10.00.

Mr. Appell. In addition to the $10.00 initiation fee and$10.00 for
the robe and a dollar and a half i^er month dues and the money paid
to the radio stations and the newspaper, is this all of the financial
contributions that you ever made for the benefit of the United Klans
of America or its members ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. How long did you remain a member of the United
Klans of America?

Mr. Thornhill. I just don't remember that. I don't remember.
I can't recall just back, the month that I gotten out. I don't recall that.

Mr. Weltner. I didn't understand that answer. What was that?

Mr. Appell. He does not recall the month or the time that he ceased
being a member.

Did you cease being a member ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And why did you cease being a member ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornkill. Well, they was doing some things that I didn't ap-
prove of too much, so I thought maybe I would get out.

Mr. Appell. Well, can you explain to the committee some of the
things that were happening that you didn't like too much that caused
you to get out ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, there was something I didn't know. Tliey
didn't let me know anything that was going on. I didn't know
whether the Klan was doing it or not, but everybody knew that I was
in the Klan and they thought that I w^as the head of it, which I didn't
know^ a thing about what was going on, and I didn't think the Klan
was doing it. And so everybody was accusing me of doing it anyway,
and I said, well, I would just get out of it.

If I was the only one that w^as open, that didn't care who knew,
didn't care if people knew that I was a member, which I didn't care.
I thought at that time that it was a mighty good organization, still
think it is, but I didn't want everybody thinking that I was doing
those things, when I was completely innocent of them.

Mr. Appell. Did vou determine tliat it was members of the United
Klans?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; never did determine that it was in the
United Klans, the Klan was doing this work until they picked them up,
and I couldn't believe it then.

Mr. Appell. Well, I mean after they picked them up, did you then
realize that they were Klansmen ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. After they plead guilty to it; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And did you know them to be members of the United
Klans of America after they picked them up ?

2962 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir — well, I don't know they was a member until
they picked them up, and they admitted that they were a member and
were the ones that did the work.

Mr. Appell. And at the time — we are talking now, are we, about
the 11 people who were indicted in McComb, Mississippi, for engaging
in a series of bombings and burnings of churches and other property ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. At the time tliese people were in jail, did you visit %vith
them?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir ; I went to see them onetime.

Mr. Appell. And what was your purpose for going to see them?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, just went down to see the boys, being neigh-
bors, as far as I know.

Mr. Appell. Were you there also for the purpose of satisfying your-
self that they were members of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I asked them and I also asked them, did they
do it, and I wanted to satisfy myself on the thing. I couldn't believe
it.

Mr. Appell. And did you satisfy yourself ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, when they pleaded guilty to it, I said, well,
I just can't understand it. I guess they was the ones that done it.

Mr. Appell. But with respect to the personal interview that you
had with them, did that convince you that they had

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; it did not.

Mr. Appell. Did they admit to you that they had engaged in it,
prior to the plea?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; no, they denied it to me right up to the
last.

Mr. Appell. They denied it to you.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes.

Mr. Appell. When you went to prison to visit them, were you ac-
companied by anyone?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir; Brother Brown went with me.

Mr. Appell. Brother Brown.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir ; had prayer with him ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Now, did you know Brother Brown to be a member
of the Klan also?

Mr. Thornhill. Not at that time ; no, sir.

Mr. Appell. Not at that time.

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; did not.

Mr. Appell. But you did learn that he was a member of the Klan.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, later on ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Now Mr. Thornhill, to what Klavern of the Klan were
you assigned for membership purposes ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. On the grounds previously stated, I will take that.

Mr. Appell. Prior to the arrest of the McComb boys, did you
know any of them personally ?

Mr. Thornhill. Two of them ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And what two did you know ?

Mr. Thornhill. I knew the Duncan boy and the little Zeeck boy.

Mr. Appell. Now did you know Duncan to have been elected in
September of 1964 to the position of treasurer for the

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2963

Mr. Thornhill. No.

Mr. Appell. — Realm of Mississippi ?

Mr. Thornhill.. Did not.

Mr. Appell. You didn't.

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you know that Dinican had gone to Birmingham,
Alabama, to attend the United Klans of America klonvokation ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; I did not.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever meet, attend meetings, of the Klavern
in McComb of which Ray Smith was the exalted cyclops?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Appell. Paul Wilson, one of the boys involved in that, at the
time of his arrest gave a statement to the Mississippi Highway Patrol
that you sometimes attended meetings there.

Was his statement factual ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I decline on the grounds previously stated on that.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, an examination of records of the United
Klans of America reflects that some payments which appear on an
analysis to be dues payable to the Imperial Realm were signed by
H. H. Mathews, payable out of a personal account.

Do you know Mr. Mathews ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Would you have been assigned to a Klavern of which
Mr. Matthews was the exalted cyclops ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I decline to answer on the grounds stated on that.

Mr. Appell. The McComb bombers were arrested in October of 1964
and thereafter pleaded guilty and were given suspended sentences
and fined ; some fined, some not. How long after they entered their
plea and you determined that they were United Klansmen did you
drop out of the United Klans of America because it did not stand for
what you thought the organization should stand for ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; I stated the reason a while ago, the reason
I got out of the Klan. I got out of the Klan because my name was
open, and they was accusing the Klan of dropping those sticks of
dynamite and, of course, everybody, white and colored, thought that
I was the head of it, and which was unbeknownst to me. I didn't
know anything about it, and that was my reasons for getting out of
the Klan at that time.

Mr. Appell. But you did not ap])rove of bombings.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, no, I didn't appro\e of going out there and
stirring up a lot of trouble and getting a lot of ])ublicity for something

Mr. Appell. As a matter of fact, you were so convinced at one time
that the people engaging in these acts were not Klansmen that you
offered a thousand dollars reward for the apprehension?

Mr. Thornhill. Certainly was ; yes, sir. Put up a thousand dollars
reward, put it in my paper. I just didn't believe our boys would
have done anything like that. I couldn't believe it.

Mr. Appell. And when you found out that some of the United

2964 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Klans of America boys had done it, was this one of the things that
caused you to drop out of the organization ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, I was done out. I was done out, then, way
before then, before they found that out. They was kind of putting me
oil the spot. If they was doing it or if they wasn't doing it, if the
colored people was doing it themselves, like we figured at one time,
that they was doing it to get some publicity, I w^as getting out for this
thinking I was the head of it, anyway.

Mr. Appell. Well, at the time you visited the boys in jail, by that
time, were you already out of the Klan ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Done out.

Mr. Appell. Now the series of bombings started sometime in July.

Mr. Thornhill. You remember what day it was? Do you recall
what day it was ? I can tell you w^hat day I got out.

Mr. Appell. Well, let's see if we can do it this way. On July 27,
1964, the newspaper reported your posting of a thousand dollar reward.

Mr. Thornhill. I was in the Klan when I did that.

Mr. Appell. So that it was sometime after that. Can you recall
approximately how^ much later ?

Mr. Thornhill. Now, however, the bombs hadn't been throwed at
that time. The church bombs, at that time, burning of the church at
that time. And there is not a church in my county that I hadn't
donated money to, one way or another, colored or white.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, some of the newspaper accounts quote
you as saying that the bombings w^ere carried out not by members of
the White Knights, but by — not by members of the United Klans of
America, but by the other Klan group in Mississippi.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I think that was all a bare mistake there. I
don't know anything about the other Klan in Mississippi and I don't
know anything about what they do, and I might have said I didn't —
I know wiiat I told the reporters. I told them that I didn't believe
that the United Klans done the bombing, which I didn't.

Now that Drew Pearson column you got, well, I think the only
truth you can find in that thing is the day it was printed.

Mr. Appell. Well, I don't have a column by Mr. Pearson; I am re-
ferring to an article in the Christian Science Monitor. But why did
you leave the Klan, or was tliere any other reason for leaving the Klan
prior to the apprehension of these people than the fact that everyone
thought that you were the head of the Klan and that you were respon-
sible for these acts ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, now, that is going back to that Drew Pearson
column, you see. He puts in your paper, up here in your paper, that
I was the head man of the United Klans, but I never was a officer in
the Klan, and of course people of my county and my State reads his
papers, and I reckon one or two of them might believe it. I don't
know. But that's wliat he run in that paper, well, the colored people
read it, the white people read it, and such as that happened, well, J. E.
Thornhill is the head of it, he is backing it up, see, which I didn't

Mr. AJppELi.. Have you since the time that you left the Klan, some-
time after July 27 and sometime before October, have you ever been
approached for the purpose of reorganizing the Klan in that area ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, no. No, sir. I haven't.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2965

Mr. Appell. You seem a little uncertain, Mr. Thomhill. Is it just
the way you express yourself, or was there some discussion about the
reorganization ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, not reorganization ; no. I have never been
approached to come back and reorganize; no, sir, never have.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of Mr. Tliornhill.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thomhill, I take it that after the arrest of some
11 persons who were charged with the various bombings in your area,
that was the time that you determined to resign from the Klan ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. When was that?

Mr. Thornhill. I was already out, way before that.

Mr. Weltner. Before then ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Was it before the bombings ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Was it between the bombings and the arrests that
you resigned ?

Mr. Thornhill. No ; now it was when they began to burn down the
churches, the people in there, everybody was accusing me of being the
head of it, and it was all done unbeknownst to me. I didn't know any-
thing about it and I didn't believe that they was the ones doing it, but
to clear myself, I got out and had it run in the paper that I was out of
the Klan.

Mr. Weltner. I see.

So after the various acts of violence in that area, you resigned and
got out and made a public notice to that effect,

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir; I had to work those colored boys. They
work for me, and I don't want any of them having any hard feelings
at me, thinking that I was doing such things as that.

Mr. Weltner. You do not approve of burning churches, bombing
homes, and that sort of thing ; do you ?

Mr. Thornhill. Absolutely not. The United Klans don't approve
of anything like that, either.

Mr. Weltner. Beg your pardon ?

Mr. Thornhill. Tlie United Klans of America don't believe that,
either. If a man in our Klavern — will you let me talk just a minute?

If a man would get up in the Klavern and bring up something like
that, to go bomb a place of business and burn down a church, he
wouldn't be a member long.

Mr. Weltner. Well, did anyone ever do that in any Klavern dis-
cussion ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; no, sir; didn't.

Mr. Weltner. All right, sir, now you say, or I believe your testi-
mony previously was, that everyone had the idea that you were the
head of this organization and that you were the only one who didn't
care whether or not the people knew you. were in the Klan. Is that
right?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And your testimony is that everybody else in the
Klan was anxious that their membership in the Klan be not publicly
known?

2966 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes.

Mr. Weltner. That people not know ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, really ; yes. You see, j^ lot of the members
working for people were probably companies, maybe, railroad com-
panies; well, if they knew they belonged to the Ku Kliix Klan, they
would want to maybe take their jobs, see. But they can't take my
job, I can get a job, so I didn't care who knew it. It w^as a fine organi-
zation, was set up for a good purpose, and I think it was to do a lot of
good.

Mr. Weltner. But you were the only one in there who was willing
to have your membership known to the public. Is that right? Do I
understand this correctly, that everybody else in the Klan that you
knew was anxious that the public had no knowledge of their member-
ship in the Klan?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, it is supposed to be a secret organization.

Mr. Weltner. What is the purpose of the secrecy of it, Mr, Thorn-
hill?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, as I just stated, maybe you are working for,
myself, for J. E. Thornhill, and J. E. Thornhill don't approve of the
Klan. Well, if I find out you are a member, well, naturally I would
fire you, get me somebody that wasn't a member of the Klan. There
are lots of people like that.

Mr. Weltner. Well, there is a reason for the secrecy. Is the reason
for the secrecy to protect the jobs of members of the Klan, to keep
them from being fired ?

Mr. Thornhill. Pardon me again, now ?

Mr. Weltner. Is the reason for the secrecy of the Klan to protect
the jobs of the members of the Klan ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I am not educated much, but that's what I
figure it was ; yes.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I didn't make the rules. I didn't make the con-
stitutions of it, and when I got in there, I taken one of the — I made
an oath that a man can take. When you join the United Klans, you
take an oath that you will uphold the law and the Constitution of the
United States until death, and that's pretty good.

Mr. Weltner. Well, I will grant you that, sir. It is a very worth-
wliile oath to take to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and
I am just wondering why members should be fearful that the public
knows they take such an oath, to uphold the Constitution of the
United States.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr, Thornhill. I don't know nothing about why — well, I don't
know why they didn't let me know they were going to do those jobs.
I believe I could have done a better job, but when I was 16 years old,
that was my job, blowing up stumps on the highway.

Mr. Weltner. Beg pardon ?

Mr. Thornhill. That was my job, blowing up stumps. That was
my job when I was a 16-year-old boy.

Mr. Weltner. A better job than what, Mr. Thornhill ?

Mr. Thornhill. Throwing those sticks of dynamite.

Mr. Weltner. I still can't understand you. A better job of what?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2967

Mr. Thornhill. Throwing those sticks of dynamite. I believe I
could have placed them a little better. Dynamite blows up, not side-
ways.

Mr. Weltner. You mean if you had been in charge of this opera-
tion, you could have done a better job of blowing up things than
they did ?

Mr. Thornhill. I could have done a better job, I believe. I don't
think they intended to hurt anybody. That's my belief.

Mr. Weltner. I thought you said you didn't approve of blowing
things up like that, either.

Mr. Thornhill. I didn't say then I did, either.

Mr. Weltner. You just think technically the job was not well done.
Is that it?

Mr. Thornhill. No; for what they was trying to do, probably
might have been all right.

Mr. Weltner. Well, wait a minute now. What they were trying
to do was to blow up houses and bum churches, wasn't it, Mr, Thorn-
hill?

Mr. Thornhill. I don't think they was trying to blow up any
houses. I think they tried to throw the dynamite out in the yard.

Mr. Weltner. Wasn't it really just designed to blow up and ex-
plode in the yard and not hurt anybody or damage any property?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes. Now I don't know whether you have the
paper, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Weltner. Well, did you happen to have an opportunity of
looking at any of these houses or properties that were blown up in
that area ?

Mr. Thornhill. I saw one church.

Mr. Weltner. Saw one church ?

Mr. Thornhill. That was blowed up. I saw several churches that
was burned down, a couple of them.

Mr. Weltner. Did you see property owned by a person named
Quinn that was destroyed on September the 20th ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; I did not.

Mr. Weltner. Do you know where that property is ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. But you know that was one of the houses that was
blown up around there at the time ; don't you ?

Mr. Thornhill. I read it in the paper, heard about it, sure did.

Mr. Weltner. Look at these photographs there.

(Documents handed to witness.)

Mr. Thornhill. My boy that worked for me lived about a hundred
yards from that house, but I never did see it.

Mr. Weltner. Now you will notice, looking at those photographs,
that it appears as though one whole side of the house has been blown
in, and the furniture and contents in a state of disarray, ceilings falling
down. But you did not see that yourself.

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir. I heard that bomb go off, though.

(Photographs previously marked "Billy Wilson Exhibit No. 1."
See pp. 2853, 2854.)

Mr. Weltner. You heard that Quinn explosion go off ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, I sure did.

Mr. Weltner. All right.

2968 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Now did I understand that you think it was that the boys just made
the mistake, threw this thing too close to the house, so that it blew up
the house, instead of blowing up out in the yard?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know about that; no.

Mr, Weltner. But if you had been doing that, you would have
fixed it so it just blew up out in the yard; is that so?

Mr. Thornhill. I w^ouldn't have done it at all.

Mr. Weltner. But if you had done it, you would have done a better
job.

Mr. Thornhill, I tell you, four or five sticks of dynamite is too
heavy for me to pick up, so I am not going to be bothered about doing
that.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thornhill, I don't exactly understand some of
these matters.

Did you have any reason for — let me back up a minute. You quit
because you didn't want people thinking you were head of this Klan
operation that was conducting all these bombings. Is that right?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Church bombings. I was out before the bombings
started,

Mr. Weltner. What was that ?

Mr. Thornhill. I was out of the Klan before the bombings started,
before they ever done any of the burnings.

Mr. Weltner. You resigned before the first bombing?

Let me put the question again. You say you were not a member of
the Klan when the first bombing took place?

Mr. Thornhill. No.

Mr, Weltner, All right, and you resigned before that time.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. But you resigned after the burnings? Is that
correct ?

Mr. Thornhill. Church burning ; yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. I see.

Now how^ many churches had been burned before you resigned?

Mr. Thornhill. I couldn't answ^er that.

Mr. Weltner. Sir?

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know.

Mr, Weltner. Well, on July 17, the Zion Hill Free Baptist Church,
McComb, Mississippi, was burned; on July 18, the Sweet Home
Church in McComb, Mississippi, was burned. Was that about the
time that you resigned, sometime after that ?

Mr. Thornhill. It was about in that.

Mr. Weltner. Then on July 21, the Mount Vernon Missionary Bap-
tist Church was burned ; and on the 22d of July, the Rose Bower Mis-
sionary Baptist Church was burned; then on the 5th of August, the
Mount Canaan Missionary Baptist Church in Smithtown(?) was
burned. That was sometime in that area ; wasn't it ?

Mr. Thornhill. Sometime in that area ; yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And you resigned about in that time. And you said
you didn't want people thinking you were responsible for these
burnings.

Mr. Thornhill. Right. White and colored.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2969

Mr. Weltner. I believe you also said that you didn't believe the
Klan had anything to do with those burnings.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. At that time, I did not.

Mr. Weltner. Well, do you know they did now ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, I don't know that they did. All I know is
what they say.

iMr. Weltner. Well, you know they pleaded guilty; don't you?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, but 1 have never seen one of them do it.

Mr. Weltner. You resigned because you didn't want people think-
ing you had anything to do with burning those churches.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I stated a little while ago, I have to work
people. I don't do it myself and I hire people to do it. Most of it
is colored workers, and naturally, it is getting to where it looked like
it was hard for me to get anybody. When I wanted somebody to do
anything, it was hard to me to get them ; they thought I was the head
of the bombings and burning churches, and things, and I just got out
and made it public that I was out of the Klan.

Mr. Weltner. Well, when you made that public, was it easier to
get help after having resigned from the Klan ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I don't have to do my own work; yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. That means, I take it, you could get help now.
Right?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes.

Mr. Weltner. So you resigned for economic reasons, because it was
affecting your ability to hire Negro employees; is that right?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. No, it wasn't that, altogether. I just didn't want
people thinking that I was doing things and having things done that
I didn't know anything about and accusing me of things like that.
Every time a couple of FBI would be sent to my State, to my town,
they — it didn't matter who he approached, they would say, "Wliy don't
you go pick up the big man, the head man ? " See ?

Mr. Weltner. And you were known as the head man of the Klan ?

Mr. Thornhill. Pardon me ?

Mr. Weltner. You were known as the head man.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, because of Drew Pearson, Twas.

Mr. Weltner. Were you the head man ?

Mr. Thornhill. I have never been an officer in the Klan in my life.

Mr. Weltner. ^Yho was the head man ?

Mr. Thornhill. I don't Imow. Mr. Shelton, as far as I know, the
Imperial Wizard.

Mr. Weltner. Who was the head man in your Klavern ?

Mr. Thornihll. I decline to answer that.

Mr. Weltner. Do you have any reason, other than the economic
reasons, for not wanting people to believe you were a member of the
Klan ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I just didn't want my friends thinking that I was
the one doing all that. And you have got to understand, I am in the
oil business. I made millions of dollars off of the colored people and
the white people's land, by buying their lease and drilling their oil
wells. And naturally, if a colored man reads that paper that J. E.

2970 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Thomhill is the head man of the Ku Khix Klan, you think I can walk
up to his house and tell him I want to buy his oil lease for $10.00 an acre or$25.00 an acre? He wouldn't let me have it. That's how I
make my money, how I make my living.

Mr. Weltner. This public notoriety or public knowledge that you
were a member of the Klan hurt your ability to make profitable oil
leases from colored landholders.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes.

Mr. Weltner. Well, did you ever have any discussion in the Klavern
about any action that the Klan — what was the program of the Klan
after the time you joined it? From the time you quit?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Weltner. I mean, what was the policy of the Klan, what was
the purpose of it ?

Mr. Thornhill. I respectfully decline on the grounds previously

Mr. Weltner. But did you testify a moment ago that no suggestion
was ever made in the Klavern meeting that any acts of violence be
conducted against any individual ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Not in my presence, there never was ; no.

Mr. Weltner. Well, did you go to Klan meetings regularly, the
Klavern meetings?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, I went to my meetings regularly.

Mr. Weltner. Was that every week ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, practically every week.

Mr. Weltner. Wliere did it meet ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, we had a building there, what we call the
Hinton Building, I believe, and that's where we met at, but we dis-
cussed, we had a committee of four men. Would you like me to tell
you about that ?

Mr. Weltner. Yes, I sure would.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Weltner. I would like very much to accept your offer and to
have you tell us about it, Mr. Thomhill, and I wish you would pro-
ceed. And I am sure this committee is anxious to accept your offer.

You are the first member that has come here that has offered to
testify anything about the Klan, and we have had a lot of members
of the Klan here who refused to, and I appreciate your offering to
tell us about it, so you have all the time you need, and we accept your
offer, sir.

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I stated a while ago that if a man would get
in a Klavern and mention about a bombing, he Avould be throwed out
of the Klan right then, not after while, but right then, if he had
brought up a subject like that.

We had a committee of men appointed to go see the sick in the
hospital, preachers, and deacons of the church. We had another com-
mittee, appointed to see about the needy in the community. Women
with children, no groceries in the house, and we carried them groceries,
white and colored.

We didn't discuss any bombings of churches, burning churches, and
bombing houses, nothing like that, wasn't never brought up.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2971

Mr. Weltner. You mean the only thing you did in tlie Klan was to
help the needy and the sick, and those were the only discussions you
ever had in the Klan meetings about which needy and which sick you
were going to help ?

Mr, Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Are you testifying that as a fact now, Mr. Thornhill ?

Mr. Thorxhill. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We had another committee of
men to go around to the schools, screen the libraries.

Mr. AVeltner. Screen the libraries ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Get the books out of there.

Mr. Weltner. Now there is another thing you talked about. Wliat
were the books ?

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know. I don't have that much education.
We had a committee of men to do that.

Mr. Weltner. Do you recall the names of any books ?

Mr. Thornhill. No. No.

Mr. Weltner. "VYliich committee did you serve on ?

Mr. Thornhill. I wasn't on the committee. I haven't got that
kind of education.

Mr. Weltner. Who was the head of the book committee ?

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know that, either.

Mr. Weltner. Wliat libraries did they go to see ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, the ones in the schools.

Mr. Weltner. Well, is that the public schools

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And how^ many public school libraries were there in-
volved in that work of the book committee ?

Mr. Thornhiul. Well, we had two or three in our unit. They were
supposed to screen and see about it.

Mr. Weltner. You don't recall the names of any books ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; but we found one, we found the books in
one library, and we also, that company that put those books in there
will never sell any more books in Mississippi, but I can't call the com-
pany that put the books in there.

Mr. Weltner. What was the book about ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Some sex book.

Mr. Weltner. And it was in the public library ?

Mr. Thornhill. A little girl 15 years old checked the book out;
yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. From the public library ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And you don't know the name of the book ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, I sure don't.

Mr. Weltner. You don't know the name of

Mr. Thornhill. I wish I did.

Mr. Weltner. Wliat library was that, Mr. Thornhill ?

Mr. Thornhill. North Pike School.

Mr. Weltner. North what?

Mr. Thornhill. North Pike.

Mr. Weltner. P-i-k-e ?

Mr. Thornhill. P-i-k-e ; yes sir.

2972 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Weltner. And that is some members of the Klan library com-
mittee called upon the school principal? Is that the way it would
work ?

Mr. Thornhill. Let's go back again now.

Mr. Weltner. How did you work that? You decided this book
needed to come out of the library, and then the members of the com-
mittee called on the librarian ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know the complete details on it, but I guess
that's way it was ; yes sir,

Mr. Weltner. And then they took the book out of the library ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, a little girl checked the book out, and the
Klan somehow or another got hold of the book. I don't know how,
but — and then they appointed a committee to go to the libraiy and
check the books and screen the libraries and get those kind of books
out. We didn't need them in there, and I still don't believe we need
them in there.

Mr. Weltner. What other books, other than the sex books, were
they?

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know the name of the book.

Mr. Weltner. Do you mean a book about the physical and physio-
logical aspects of marriage ? Is that the kind of book you are talking

Mr. Thornhill. I don't know. They didn't tell the book. All I
know is of course they said we didn't need this kind of books in there,
and we got them out, and I can't read a newspaper and I can't read a
book, so how would I know what kind of a book it was ?

Mr, Weltner. Yet you think this book ought to come out of there.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. From what they said, it ought to come out ; yes.

Mr. Weltner. What did they say about it, Mr. Thornhill?

Mr, Thornhill. I said they didn't liave any business a teenager
reading the book, and I didn't think they did, either. I am a pretty
good-sized taxpayer in my county, and the principal didn't think they
ought to be up there screening the libraiy, and I went to see him and
talked to him, and he told us that — my committee that did screen-
ing — the library lady just hadn't had time to separate the books, and
that book got in there accidentally, some way.

Mr. Weltner. You say the principal at firet thought the Klan
didn't have any business screening the library?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Right.

Mr. Weltner. And then you went to call on the principal.

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And the principal decided that the Klan actually did
have some business screening the library. Is that right?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, not necessarily the Klan, but the people of
the community. The taxpayers. I have a little daughter. She is
17 now. And if my little girl had brought that book home, it would
have been more sand raised than there was, I expect.

Mr. Weltner. All right, sir, and tliis book-screening took place in
every public library in the area.

(Witness confers with counsel. )

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2973

Mr. Weltner. In addition to the North Pike School ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, we had our own territoi-y to screen; other
units had theirs, I guess.

Mr. Weltner. What was your territory ?

Mr. Thornhill. North Pike School.

Mr. Weltxer. Just one school ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. But you weren't on that book committee, were you ?

Mr. Thornhill. No.

Mr. Weltner. Your Klavern, though, had jurisdiction ?

Mr, Thornhill. I am a businessman. I haven't got time to be on
any kind of committee like that.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Weltner. Your Klaveni had jurisdiction just over screening
books in the North Pike School ?

Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And as I understand, then, that other Klaverns
had the other schools in the area, the other public schools?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. I don't really know, but they are supposed to.

Mr. Weltner. Well, what is your understanding of it?

Mr. Thornhill. My understanding was that they did ; yes.

Mr. Weltner. All right, you had a sick committee and a needy
committe and a book committee. Where did the Klan get its funds to
take groceries to poor people, if the dues were only a dollar and a
quarter or a dollar a month ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Thornhill. Well, it passed the hat around, and they would
take up collections for donations like that.

Mr. Weltner. Did you ever contribute to any fund for the needy,
food for the needy ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, yes, there has never been anybody come to
me needing funds that I didn't help, in the last 10 years.

Mr. Weltner. All right. Let's get this straight now. You are
under oath and you are on the record. A while ago, you testified
the only contribution you made to any Klan activities — —

Mr. Thornhill. That wasn't in the Klan.

Mr. Weltner. —was the klectokon ?

Mr. Thornhill. That didn't go in the Klan treasury at all.

Mr. Weltner. Permit me, please, to finish my statement. You will
have full time to answer.

— was the klectokon, the initiation fee, the monthly dues, and these
three checks. Now^ in addition to that, you testified you contributed
money for the needy ?

Mr. Thornhill. No, we were talking about a while ago what went
into the Klan treasury. This didn't ever get into the Klan treasury.
This went for a purpose donation.

Mr. Weltner. Who collected the money ?

Mr. Thornhill. Well, I can't even recall who

Mr. Weltner. Was there

Mr. Thornhill. Maybe lialf a dozen passed the hat around.

Mr. Weltner. Was there a chairman of the needy committee?

(Witness confers with counsel. )

2974 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Thornpiill. It varies from time to time. It wouldn't be the
same one. Maybe I would grab a hat and go around, "Here, $3.00,$25.00, $2.00," or something, and maybe if you had been in there, you would have grabbed the hat. Well, you can't remember such things as that goes on, but that's the way it was worked, and that money didn't ever get into the Klan at all, Mr. Weltner. Who would deliver the groceries, Mr. Thornhill? Mr. Thornhill. The committee would be appointed. Mr. Weltner. Well, the committee was secret, though; wasn't it? I mean, they wouldn't let anybody know they were in the Klan; would they ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, when they delivered those groceries, he didn't let anybody know it, either. Mr. Weltner. So did you ever go on a grocery- delivering com- mittee ? Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; I didn't ever. No, sir; I didn't. But I do deliver a lot of them. Mr. Weltner. Well, they wouldn't tell Mr. Thornhill. But not in the Klan ; no. Mr. Weltner. You- mean they would just go give these groceries and not tell anybody it was a gift of the Ku Klux Klan ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, they would tell them it was a gift. I just didn't know it. They had on the robe and hood, when they delivered. Mr. Weltner. Did you say they delivered groceries to colored families ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Did they wear hoods and robes when they delivered those groceries to colored families? Mr. Thornhill. They would have on their hood and robe ; yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Did those colored families appreciate it ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. I don't know about that. I guess they did. Mr. Weltner. I would just as soon go hungry, if I were under circumstances like that. Mr. Thornhill. I think they might be proud to get them. Mr. Weltner. All right, you had a sick committee and a needy committee and a book committee. What other committees did you have? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. That's all I can recall right now. All the com- mittees. Mr. Weltner. Did you have a wrecking crew ? Mr. Thornhill. Have a what? Mr. Weltner. A wrecking crew? Mr. Thornhill. Wrecking crew? Mr. Weltner. Wrecking crew? Mr. Thornhill. What would they wreck? No, we never had no wrecking crew in my unit. Of course I had a wrecking crew, but he wasn't in the Ku Klux Klan. Mr. Weltner. Who was that? Mr. Thornhill. A boy that worked for me, a colored boy that worked for me. He tore up three cars that I bought him. I give him a ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2975 motor bike then, and he wrecked that motor bike the first week. The next week I give him another motor bike, and he got killed on it. Mr. Weltner. Well, Mr. Thornhill, if you did all these good works and kept those dirty books out of the schools and delivered those groceries to those poor colored folks down there, why do you have to keep the membership secret? Mr. TiioRNHiLL. Have to keep what, now? Mr. Weltner. Have to keep the membership secret, if this is no more than a charity group? Mr. Thornhill. I don't know. I didn't keep mine secret. I could tell anybody I was a member, but I taken an oath that I couldn't tell anybody that you belonged. Mr. Weltner. Is that why you are not telling me who the members of this Klan were? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. No. Mr. AVeltner. Wliy are you refusing to tell us the name of the member of your Klavem? Mr. Thornhill. On the fifth amendment. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Pool. Mr. Ashbrook. Mr. Ashbrook. Mr. Thornhill, I am interested very much in one particular facet of your testimony. You impressed me with your business background, and so forth, as being a man of considerable intelligence, notwithstanding education. I happen to be one who believes that a person can succeed, regard- less of education. You obviously have, and yet with your intelligence, which you obviously have, you still don't seem to want to believe that the Klan has participated in bombings or acts of violence in your area. It seems to me all the questions that have been propounded, you pretty well insist that the Klan has not perpetrated acts of violence. ,Is that a meaningful position that you take? Do you honestly believe the Klan has not? Mr. Thornhill. I don't believe the Klan has ever, the United Klans of America has ever participated in agitating any kind of work like that, no. Mr. Ashbrook. What about the pleas of guilty of the Klan members ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, that's the same thing in your church. A preacher will get up there and preach to you all day long, but you ain't going to do what he tells you to do. That's tlie boys in that United Klan, some of them won't do what you tell them to do. Mr. Ashbrook. I think you mentioned at one point that you had never seen any acts of violence. Is that the basis for your refusing to believe that the Klan had participated in any acts of violence? Mr. Thornhill. Tliey claimed that. They never admitted it. Sometimes you think, "Well, I guess they did do it," and then again, you think, "they done that just to get out of court," so I just don't « know. Mr. Ashbrook. Then in asking you a straight question, do you believe the Klan lias participated in violence in your area, what would be your answer ? 59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 6 2976 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; no, sir. Mr. AsHBROOK. How do you possibly square that with testimony you made a few moments ago, and I recall because I wrote down almost specifically what you said, and you said, and I quote roughly what you said, at one point, you believed the Negroes were doing these bombings to get publicity. Is that not correct? You stated that just a few moments ago. Mr. Thornhill. That was the rumor around, yes, in town. That they was doing it. Mr. AsHBROOK. That was the purport of what you said. You said, "At one point we believed," and obviously, you were a part of that. Mr. Thornhill. I did, I believed they were doing it, some of it; yes. They were throwing it out in the yard, not in the house, and it looked to me like that; yes. Mr. AsHBROOK. You weren't present when any Negroes bombed, were you ? Mr. Thornhill. No, I wasn't. Mr. AsHBRooK. Then how could you possibly want to believe that Negroes were doing this, when you had no evidence, but you can't possibly bring yourself to believe that the white Klanners were doing this, when there is considerable evidence? Mr. Thornhill. It just looked to me like if I was going to bomb my house, wouldn't I throw it out there in the yard with a stick of dynamite at my house ? Would it to you ? Mr. Ashbrook. The question I am raising is you have already ex- pressed an indication that you believed and thought that the Negroes were doing this to gain publicity, when there was no real evidence, or at least you haven't cited any. Mr. Thornhill. I have reasons to believe. Mr, Ashbrook. When there is a record full of evidence that Klan members were doing this, you do not want to believe in their cage that they had done tliese acts of violence. It just does not seem to me that that is consistent and can't possibly be a position that you, as an intelli- gent, successful man, can take. (Witness confers with counsel. ) Mr. Thornhill. Well, I am quoting the rumors. It was going around in town, see. Mr. Ashbrook. What about the rumors of the Klan ? Mr. Thornhill. And my own belief, too, now. If I was going to bomb my house, and make somebody think that somebody else done it, naturally, I would throw it where it wouldn't do any damage, and that's where tlie sticks of dynamite was hitting there to start with. Mr. Ashbrook. Okay, admitting that there were rumors going around your town that the Negroes were doing it to gain publicity, a rumor which by your own statement you admitted that you tended to believe, what were the rumors that were going around town regard- ing the Klan involvement in these bombings ? Did you choose not to believe these? {Witness confers with coimsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Well, I guess so. I never had heard anything in the organization on tliat line at all. And Mr. Ashbrook. Well, not in the organization. I am talking about rumors around town. You are talking about rumors regarding the ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2977 Negroes. There certainly must have been rumors regarding the Klan. I find it a very interesting inconsistency and one which, I might say, is a pattern of the Klan, to want to believe the worst about the Negro, but not to recognize, even when evidence is demonstrated, that any of your own members, any of your own people, could possibly be partici- pants in these matters. And I merely want to point out for the record what I think is a verj' glaring inconsistency and a very unfair in- consistency as far as your statement is concerned, your willingness to believe the Negroes were doing this to get publicity, but your unwillingness in the face of a mountain of evidence to think that any Klamiers could be participants in these bombings. And that, Mr. Chairman, is all I have to say. Mr. Pool. I want to ask you: I think during the testimony you said that the reason that, I think something to this effect, that they would take their jobs. You remember that a while ago? Why would they t ake their j obs ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, as I stated a while ago, maybe a man was working for you, and you didn't believe in the Klan and you didn't like the Ku Klux Klan. Maybe you had read a whole lot about Klans accused of them that they didn't do, and they laid off, but anyway, you didn't believe in the Ku Klux Klan, but I was working, see, and that's the only way I had of making a living, working for you, and you find out I was in the Klan. Naturally you would fire me, wouldn't you ? You didn't like the Klan, didn't believe in the Klan, you would get rid of me and get somebody that didn't belong to the Klan. Mr. Pool. Well, then, is it prevalent in your area that the Klan is unpopular ? Mr. Thornhill. With some people they are; yes, sir. Yes, sir. Certainly are. Mr. Pool. Would you say a majority of the people in your area? Mr. Thornhill. No, I wouldn't say that much ; no. I wouldn't say that. Mr. Pool. Would you say a majority of the people approve of the Klan in your area ? Mr. Thornhill. I wouldn't say that either. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Pool. What is your opinion ? Mr. Thornhill. There are a few that disapproves of it. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. The large majority, I don't know which way they go, but there are a few of them that don't approve of the Klan, I think, but of course, I think, the large majority understands what the orga- nization was for and what it means, and I think the large majority approves of the Klan. Mr. Pool. Well, is the Klan losing membership in your area ? (Witness confers with counsel. ) Mr. Thornhill. I wouldn't know about that. I haven't been m it in a long time. Mr. Pool. What is the talk around town? What do they say around town ? Mr. Thornhill. I never discuss it any more. Mr. Pool. You never discuss it ? 2978 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Thornhill. No, sir; I don't talk about that. I talk about my business. I have got enough business of my own to talk about, with- out talking about somebody else's. Mr. Pool. What is your feeling about your activities as a Klansman ? Are you proud of the fact that you were a former Klansman ? (Witness confers with counsel. ) Mr. Pool. Or are you ashamed ? Mr. Thornhill. Pardon me, now ? Mr. Pool. Are you proud of the fact that you are an ex-Klansman ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, I would rather not answer that. I think it is a good organization, put it that way. Mr. Pool. You think it is a good organization ? Mr. Thornhill. I certainly do. Mr. Pool. You think it still is ? Mr. Thornhill. One of the finest, help a lot of people. Mr. Pool. Why did you resign? What was your reason for resigning ? Mr. Thornhill. What was my reason for resigning ? Mr. Pool. Yes. Mr. Thornhill. Well, because of all the publicity I was getting. I didn't approve of that. I don't like that publicity. The only place a man ever sees my name, if it is left up to me, is in a telephone book, and I was getting too much publicity, bad publicity and some good publicity, and I just didn't approve of that, so I thought maybe if I would get out, I would stop some of it. Mr, Pool. You still obey your Klan oath ? Mr. Thornhill. Pardon me, now ? Mr. Pool. Do you still obey your Klan oath that you took ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. I fully decline on the ground that Mr. Pool. Well, I would consider that you do, because you have refused to name other people, even though you are using the fifth amendment, but I would assume that the Klan oath also has quite an effect on your answers. These boys that you testified lived 100 yards from the Quinn house, were they boys that worked for you ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir; one boy. That was the boy that managed my ranch, my farm. Mr. Pool. That was a colored boy ? Mr. Thornhill. Yes. Mr. Pool. Lived within a hundred yards ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, I say a hundred yards. It might have been 200 yards. Somewhere near. But the Quinn house was up on this block. I would come in, whenever I wanted him, and maybe he wouldn't show up this morning, I would want him in, and I would come in thisaway, and I never had any reason to go down Sumter Street at all. Mr. Pool. Did you know the Quinn people ? Mr. Thornhill. Pardon me, now ? Mr. Pool. Did you know the Quinns ? Mr. Thornhill. No, I know her now. Yes, I know her now, but I didn't know her until after this house was bombed and all, and all the publicity got out on her, I didn't ever know her. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2979 Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, I think you have some questions. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thornhill, you talked about the oath that you took as a KlansmaJi, about how it is sworn to uphold the Constitution. Will you explain to the committee that part of the oath that you took in which you swore, and I quote it; "I swear that I will keep secure to myself a secret of a [Klan] *sman" Mr. Thornhill. No, sir. Mr. Appell. [Continues reading :] — when same is committed to me in the sacred bond of [Klan]*smanship, the crime of violating THIS solemn oath — treason against the United States of America, rape, and malicious murder alone excepted. Why did you^ — ^what is the purpose of that oath ? Mr. Thornhill. That's not in the United Klans. Mr. Appell. I beg to differ with you, Mr. Thornhill. I show the series Mr. Thornhill. That's not the oath that I taken. Mr. Appell. Let me show you. This is not in the form that the United Klan prints it. It is in the reprinted form, because we needed so many of them, but let me show you this. Mr. Thornhill. Read that off to me again. Let me hear that again. I want to hear that. Mr. Appell. Well, I want you to see the entire series of oaths, a section on obedience, a section on secrecy, a section on fidelity, and a section on Klanishness. Now I give you this. Mr. Thornhill. I can't read that thing. You just read it off. |Mr. Appell. [Reading:] "I swear that I will keep secure to myself a secret of a [Klan] *sman." Now you are shaking your head. Mr. Thornhill. In the United Klan, you can tell anybody that you are a member, but you can't tell the other members. Mr. Appell. Well, that is one of — that which you are talking about is also here, but then it says, it goes on, the secret — when same is committed to me in the sacred bond of [Klan]*smanship, the crime of violating THIS solemn oath — treason against the United States of America, rape, and malicious murder alone excepted. Now why would you be required to keep a secret of a fellow Klans- man, except in the case of treason, raj^e, and malicious murder, if the Klan did not engage in acts other than that ? Mr. Thornhill. I don't know. (Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4." See committee report. The Presenf-Day Ku Klux Klan Moveiivent^ pp. 343-346.) Mr. Appell. Now you testified that you attended Klan meetings in the Hinton Building. On what nights Vlid you attend Klan meetings? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Thursday night. Mr. Appell. Thursday night. Now did you have knowledge that there was another Klavern that also met there on Tuesday nights? Mr. Thornhill. Yes, sir. Yes. I reckon on Tuesday night. I knew that there was some more Klansmen meeting there. I didn't know what night. I don't recall what night. Mr. Appell. And did you know that the exalted cyclops of that Kla- vern was Ray Smith ? 2980 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Thornhill. Well, I decline to answer that, on the grounds. Mr. Appeal. And did you also know that the members of that Klavern were the members who engaged in acts of violence that they later admitted and confessed to ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. No, sir. I did not know those boys. I didn't even know the}^ was in the Klan. Mr. Appell. Didn't know- any of them in the Klan ? Mr. Thornhill. I knew one of the boys. I knew Duncan, is the only boy that I knew that they picked up. Mr. Appell. You knew him to be a member of the Klan ? Mr, Thornhill. No, sir; I didn't know^ he was a member of the Klan. He wasn't in my Klavern. I didn't know^ he was a member. But I knowed him. I knowed that boy all my life. The only one of the 10 or 9 or 11 that they arrested that I knew. I knew the faces; by name, I didn't know them. I knew the Zeeck boy, I knew him. Mr. Appell. Well, now, can you explain to me how this happens, that one of the Klansmen who were involved in an act of violence, attempted burning of a church, becomes a delegate to a supreme con- vention of this organization, which you say is a good organization, and doesn't engage in these things ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Don't know^ about that. I don't know that. Mr. Appell. Did you make an investigation to determine whether or not this organization met your ideals or whether or not its members did engage in such things ? Mr. Thornhill. No. No, I didn't. I thought it all just like ours. I thought that all the units was like my unit, and I know things like that were never brought up and discussed in our unit. Mr. Appell. Now can you explain to the committee if this sort of thing is not condoned by the United Klans of America, why the Grand Dragon of Georgia solicited funds for the boys that were arrested and wdiy the Eealm of Louisiana submitted money to the Grand Dragon of Mississippi for a defense fund ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, now, that's something I wouldn't know. I couldn't answer that, Mr. Appell. Well, if you knew that they were financing attorneys" fees and helping to pay costs of expenses of people who were involved in bombing, what would your reaction be with respect to the worth- whileness of the organization ? (Witness confers with counsel. ) Mr. Thornhill. Well, I don't think I would have liked that too much. Mr, Pool, I did not get your answer to that. Mr. Appell. He said he did not think that he would like that too much. Well, Mr. Thornhill, I suggest that you make an investigation, be- cause there are many acts of violence. Mr. Thornhill, I am not going to make no investigation now. If I am out, I intend to stay out. Mr. Appell. There are many acts of violence which are still un- solved, whidh this committee's investigation establishes to have been committed by Klansmen and members of the United Klans of America, ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2981 and your investigation could satisfy to yourself whether the organiza- tion that you say is a worthwhile organization is in fact worthwhile. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. Well, I am out of it now, and I intend to stay out of it, and I hope the boys will do as we intended to do to start with, if they are going to stay in. But — it is not up to me to investi- gate, if I am out of it now. And I don't think it would be my duty to go around investigating. Mr, Appell. Would you encourage someone to join a Klavern of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Thornhill. No, sir ; no, sir. Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Pool. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Weltner. Why could you not encourage someone to join? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. I am out of it, and I don't reckon it would be my duty to encourage anyone to get into it now, for I am out of it per- sonally, myself, and that's up to him. If he wants to join, that's his opportunity, not mine. Mr. Weltner. But you would not encourage anyone to join that? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. No. Mr. Weltner. If someone asked you your opinion as a former Klan member as to whether or not to join the Klavern to which you were assigned what would you advise him ? Mr. Thornhill. Well, I think I would tell him that I got out of it for my own personal reasons. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Thornhill. And he would have to decide that his own self. Mr. Weltner. Let me ask you just one or two questions about these business reasons here. How many employees do you have? Mr. Thornhill. How many what ? Mr. Weltner. How many people working for you ? Mr. Thornhill. You mean — oh, well, I couldn't answer that exactly. Maybe one day I will have maybe six or eight, and another day I will have two, but I have two maids regular and one man to oversee. Mr. Weltner. How many oil leases do you have now ? Mr. Thornhill. How many what? Mr. Weltner. How many current oil leases? Mr. Thornhill. What are you talking about? Oh, I don't know. I have interests in over 200 wells, producing now. I bought about 43,000 acres up here in Ohio, drilled 23 wells up there, and haven't raised a bit yet. Mr. Pool. I did not get the last statement. Mr. Thornhill. Drilled 23 wells and haven't raised a bit yet. Mr. Weltner. Does that mean you have not struck any oil? Mr. Thornhill. Haven't struck any oil yet in Ohio; right. Mr. AsHBROOK. The Klan has been about that successful, too. Mr. Pool. I want to ask you about these leases that you took from these colored people. AVTiat did you pay them for their leases? Do you remember? (Witness confers with counsel.) 2982 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Thornhill. Oh, man, that price runs up. I paid as high as$3,000 an acre for some of them, $75.00 an acre, two and a half,$3.00
an acre for others. It depends on what's going on, your activities.

Mr. Pool. Were they satisfied wnth the leases that you took ?

Mr. Thornhill. Pardon me ?

Mr. Pool. Were they satisfied in the leases that you took from
them?

Mr. Thornhill. I have never had a lawsuit. I have never had one
to sue me yet for fraud, getting something, taking with a gun. I
always buy it with money and I have never had a lawsuit, one of them
to sue me yet, and that is something that I am very, very proud of.

Mr. Pool. Further questions ?

Mr.WELTNER. No.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell?

Mr. Appell, No further questions.

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused.

Call the next witness.

Mr. Appell. John Dawson.

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

Mr. Dawson. I do.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN DAWSON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Dawson, state your full name for the record.

Mr. Dawson. John Dawson.

Mr. Appell. You will have to speak up a little louder.

Mr. Dawson. John Dawson.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance wdth a
subpena served upon you on October 30, 1965, by John D. Sullivan,
a member of the investigative staff of this committee ?

Mr. Dawson. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Dawson. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Pool. Let me ask the witness : Are you familiar with the chair-
man's opening statement of this hearing ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir ; all of my clients have been advised of the
chairman's opening statement, Mr. Pool. So stipulated.

Mr. Pool. You have read it and are familiar with the contents of
it?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Dawson, the subpena served upon you had an at-
tachment to it, which was a part- of the subpena, and commanded you
to bring with you and to produce items set forth in the subpena.

Part 1 of the subpena reads :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated or-

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2983

ganizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in your possession, custody
or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or past Grand
Klabee of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan.

In a representative capacity, set forth in the subpena, I ask you to
produce the documents called for in paragraph 1.

(At this point Mr. Weltner left the hearing room.)

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Dawson. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in the subpena dated
October the 6th, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do
so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guar-
anteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the
United States of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all rec-
ords as requested by the committee under the subpena dated October
the 6th, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the
subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Con-
gress in consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such
inquiry within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by the
Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolu-
tion 8, adopted January the 4th, 1965.

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce
the documents called for by the subpena did not really justify your
refusal. These reasons are rejected. I order and direct you to produce
these documents.

And, Mr. Witness, is it understood by you that the request of the
interrogator, pursuant to the terms of subpena, is to produce the docu-
ments called for therein, in the representative capacities stated in the
subpena ?

Mr. Chalmers. So stipulated, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Dawson. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based on the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. That is not acceptable.

Go ahead to the next one.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, before proceeding to part 2 of the
subpena, I desire to show the witness a readable copy of a bank signa-
ture card filed in connection with a bank account of the United Klans
of America, Realm of Mississippi, account maintained at the Britton
& Koontz, B-r4-t-t-o-n, and K-o-o-n-t-z, National Bank, Natchez,
Mississippi, and put it to Mr. Dawson as a fact, and ask him to affirm
or deny thQ fact, that the "John Dawson," which appears on the
signature card that will be handed to liim, is his signature.

(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. Dawson. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons I honestly feel that my answer miglit tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights that are guaranteed to me by amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

(Document marked "John Dawson Exhibit No. 1" follows:)

2984 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

John Dawson Exhibit No. 1

i THf. BRUTON.ft KOONTX NATION'.'. SAUK !fj NATCHK? MtOSIgeiPffl
U bRr^i* anthMltf i Ut *oco(puM tSe »lKTUiW/»a swriW Kck ■ in psyrien* of fon-is on dep:>il, or ic «b« trenjictiiw of other
muMioM »>ith tl«> liudmri^ied. All foo.-iitiorj n, jrrted t' •; fc/crte »'<fe of thw c; ;xi hsve ^'tn reryi ^^(j are htreby >nlyd t^^.

/^>:-' -r^;.

K'cs'JATt.'sa ; ^7* (j; /^

post r<oN

SifSflATUfVS , . --,

•r // ■

„ ,-.v. • .>'X.:.,7

AO'ORrEi /i-*^ -

■ V • ;

. QATE ; ;\^, ^

_. ^94^

.: ■'■/ / - V .

Mr. Appell. Mr. Dawson, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that in May of 1965 you were elected to the
office of grand klabee or treasurer — —

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, just a second.

Are you going into the second part of the subpena ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right.

Mr. Appell. That in May of 1965 you were elected to the office of
grand klabee or treasurer of the United Klans of America, Realm of
Mississippi, and I ask you to affirm or deny that fact.

Mr. Dawson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Ajid these are the grounds whicli include the fifth
amendment, not the ground relating to production of documents ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Dawson, part 2 of the subpena calls upon you to
produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or past Grand Klabee of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization
authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said
organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.

In a representative capacity set forth in part 2, 1 ask you to produce
the documents called for.

Mr. Dawson. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena
dated October the 6th, 1965, for the reasons that I honestly feel that
to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as
guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Constitution of
the Unite/d States of America.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2985

And I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all
records as requested by the committee under subpena dated October
the 6th, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to
the subject under investigation and the same would not aid Congress
in the consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such in-
quiry within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule
XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8,
adopted January the 4th, 1965.

Mr. Pool. The reasons you have given for your refusal to produce
the documents called for by this subpena do not legally justify your
refusal and these reasons are rejected. I order and direct you to
produce those documents.

Mr. Witness, it is understood by you that the request of the inter-
rogator pursuant to the terms of the subpena is to produce the docu-
ments called for therein, in the representative capacities stated in the
subpena ?

Mr. Chalmers. So stipulated, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Dawson. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the committee, based on the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Your answer is not acceptable. Go ahead, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chainnan, paragraph 3 called upon Mr. Dawson
in his position as treasurer to produce the corporate tax returns of the
Realm of Mississippi, the United Klans of America, also under cover
name of the Mississippi Rescue Service.

We have been advised by the Internal Revenue Service that no re-
turns were filed, so I shall not make demand for production of those
documents.

Mr. Dawson, I hand you two documents. One is a request for a
reserv^ation at the Dinkier- Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama,
from John Dawson, 3809 Ridgewood Road, Natchez, Mississippi, ad-
vising the Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel that you intend to, or that John
Dawson plans to, attend the convention of the Alabama Rescue Serv-
ice; and the second docmnent is a copy of the original hotel registra-
tion card which shows that John Dawson of the same address regis-
tered on September 4 in the year 1964.

Did you, Mr. Dawson, file the request for a reservation and did
you, in fact, sign the registration card, a copy of which was referred
to?

Mr. Dawson. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reasons that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

(Documents marked "John Dawson Exhibits Nos. 2-A and 2-B,"
respectively, follow:)

2986 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

John Dawson Exhibit No. 2-A

MAKE YOUR HQTEL RESERVAHONS NOW!

I v.'ill !>? aftendinq the convention of the . . .

Aiti cue St'K y LCl

e cf group c association)
I will arrive (dciyl-A/47/ . . idateiy.'^ -<?f_ (hour)^'y4. m.

: ■ ', ' - f . (hour) .. m.

U Single
l_] tv/m bedroom

^ double bedroom
□ suite

YOUR I-IMAE ^jU^J/J/ U^i

ADDRESS Zc^_5jL SJ Q.Gc [^^'OoJ^ £il

CITY /\6iHdAL^L^^ZAU.5__

John Dawson Exhibit No. 2-B

99S DAWSOW JOHN 5/03 656«t
NAT MtSa
9*^ W

H 65B60

^^ ^^

OTHCRWISK THK HOTEL COMPANY WILL

Dinkl^r^'tutwiler

0^ DmBcnoN

DINKLER HOTEL CORPORATION
'DiBPaNSCm OF Thuk •outhenn Hosmtauty-

-^^fi^f /ffDCcu»>op City /^y4^/2r//^7 S*''*^ A^/^S

m City y ^ ■^ State

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that in addition to delegates from Mississippi to that klon-
vokation or convention was Murphy John Duncan, who was later ar-
rested and pleaded guilty to a charge involving conspiracy to violate
Mississippi law for illegal use of explosives ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2987

Mr. Dawson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of Mr. Dawson's refusal to
answer questions on the claim of privilege, I present to the committee
the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Dawson.

Mr. Pool. Go right ahead.

Mr. Appell. First, I will ask you, Mr. Dawson, when and where
were you bom ?

Mr. Dawson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. John Dawson was bom on July 11, 1924, at Gloster,
G-1-o-s-t-e-r, Mississippi. In April 1943 he entered the United States
Navy, while a senior at the Oxford Consolidated School of Amite
County, Mississippi. He was discharged in May of 1944.

In 1949 he began employment with the International Paper Com-
pany, where he is presently a field inspector.

Dawson joined the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi,
in 1964. He was a delegate to the Imperial Klonvokation held at the
Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel, Birmingham, Alabama, on September 5-6,
1964.

Dawson replaced Murphy John Duncan following his conviction
along with other UKIA Klansmen, for his role in the series of bombings
and burnings in the McComb, Mississippi, area.

At a state convention on May 15-16, 1965, Mr. Dawson was elected
the grand klabee or State treasurer for the Realm of Mississippi.

Through subpena duces tecum, Mr. Chairman, the committee sub-
penaed certain bank accounts, one in the name of the Mississippi
Rescue Service, the other in the name of the United Klans of America,
Realm of Mississippi. This first bank account of the United Klans of
America, Realm of Mississippi, was opened in September 1964 under
the name of the Mississippi Rescue Service.

The authorized signature to this account was Murphy J. Duncan, one
of the 10 McComb Klansmen arrested in connection with burning and
bombing in McComb area. Duncan used the alias of John K. Duncan.
The account was closed in October 1964, after Duncan's arrest. Docu-
ments seized from Duncan established these facts.

The next account located by the committee was at the Britton &
Koontz National Bank, Natchez, Mississippi. This account was opened
on July 26, 1965, with Edward L. McDaniel signing as Grand Dragon
as the authorized signature.

(Signature card marked "John Dawson Exhibit No. 3." Not re-
producible; retained in committee files.)

This designation was changed on September 21, 1965, when any two
signatures of the following names were required on all checks : Edward
L. McDaniel, Grand Dragon; John Dawson; L. C. Murrayj field sec-
retary. (See Dawson Exhibit No. 1, p. 2984.)

From July 26, 1965, to October 12, 1965, the date covered by the
committee's subpena, $9,948.39 was deposited to the account. Checks written against tlie account during the same period total$9,337.65.

2988

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Checks of interest in this account to the committee's investigation
are as follows : Checks dated 9/24/1965 and 10/8/1965 paid to L. C.
Murray, $75 each, and comakers of the checks were Jolm Dawson and Edward L. McDaniel. The puri:)ose for which drawn was "salary." Check of 10/2/1965, made payable to cash, in the amomit of$2,766,
the comakers : L. C. Murray and Jolin Dawson. The endorsers on the
check : L. C. Murray and Jolm Dawson.

9/26/65 check to E. L. McDaniel in the amount of $177.40, the makers: L. C. Murray and John Dawson; the endorser: E. L. Mc- Daniel. Purpose for which drawn : Expenses. A check of October 15, 1965, payable to cash, in the amount of$2,000.
The makers: L. C. Murray and Edward L. McDaniel; the endorser:
Edward L. McDaniel.

Mr. Dawson, I show you this check payable to cash in the amount of
$2,766, with the endorsers of the check being the same as the makers, L. C. Murray and Jolm Dawson, and ask you to advise the committee the purpose for which that check was drawn and the money used ? ( Check handed to witness. ) Mr. Dawson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Checks marked "John Dawson Exhibit No. 4" follow:) John Dawson Exhibit No. 4 XtA^WtlX. MlMW. S^' /^/4<^UH^ , 75-^ ..J!^^ti*^^j~ i^X it'-xi^ 'i^:^ .^Zl^ }Zl^</t^ -^':t/^ J>l I'LJUVItN ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2989 John Dawson Exhibit No. 4 — Continued *teo -« . ,* tM xsr-. tn 2J*- o o o o y § 2990 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. John Dawson Exhibit No. 4 — Continued ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2991 John Dawson Exhibit No. 4— Continued J::^^^.?^WU^ ^f'^-pn o U \ o it*.^- o "-t^-^ ;?lg a» itii ii. * 1^ m I ^ ODE 2- S>5 2 ^:^ 59-222 O— 67— pt. 4- 2992 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. Mr. Chalmers. Thank you. Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess until three o'clock. (Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Ash- brook.) ( Wliereupon, at 12 :05 p.m., Wecbiesday, February 2, 1966, the sub- committee recessed, to reconvene at, 3 p.m., the same day.) AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1966 (The subcommittee reconvened at 3 :20 p.m.) Mr. Appell. I have been asked by the chairman of the committee to announce that because of business on the floor of the House that the committee will not be able to resume its hearings this afternoon and that witnesses under subpena are excused until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, and they are to report in Room 313-A. The committee's hearings tomorrow^ will be in that room. (Wliereupon, at 3 :21 p.m., Wednesday, February 2, 1966, the sub- committee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, February 3, 1966.) ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES Part 4 THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1966 United States House of Representatives, Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, Washington, D.C. PUBLIC HEARINGS The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as reconstituted for the February 3 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, at 10:25 a.m. in Room 313-A, Cannon House Office Building, Washing- ton, D.C, Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. (Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas, chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of Alabama.) Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and Buchanan. Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell, chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. Mr. Weltner (presiding). The subcommittee will come to order. I wish to file and make a part of the record a designation of a sub- committee consisting of Mr. Pool and myself and Mr. Buchanan as members. (The order of appointment of the subcommittee follows :) February 2, 196<3. To: Mr. Francis J. McNamara, Direct ar, Committee on Un-American Activities. Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities consisting of Honorable .Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable Charles L. Weltner and Honorable John Buchanan as assocaite members, to conduct hearings in Washing- ton. D.C. on Thursday, February t^, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution adopted by the Committee on the ;iOth day of March, 196.5. authorizing hearings concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the United States. Please make this action a matter of Committee record. If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. Given under my hand this 2nd day of February, 1966. /s/ Edwin E. Willis Edwin E. Willis Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 2993 2994 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Weltner. Tlie committee now sitting, being a quorum of that subcommittee, will proceed. Mr. Appell, will you call the first witness? Mr. Appell. Mr. Charles Stewart. Mr. Weltner. Stand, please. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Stewart. I do. TESTIMONY OF CHARLES MELVIN STEWART, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. Mr. Stewart, state your full name for the record. Mr. Stewart. Charles Melvin Stew^art. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you at the offices of the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi, in Natchez, Mississippi, on October 30, 1965 ? Mr. Stewart. I am, Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Stewart. I am. Mr. Appell. Will comisel identify himself for the record ? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Stewart? Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in the violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Stewart, the subpena served upon you contained an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena and commanded you to bring and produce documents listed in the attachment. Paragraph 1 reads: AH books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as Kligrapp (Secretary) of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In a representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated October 6, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of mv rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committe any and all records as requested by his committee under subpena dated October 6, 1965, for that information is not relevant or germane to the subject mider investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the con- ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2995 sideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry with- in the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89 th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965. Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direction of the witness. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers ? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; the same stipulation that has heretofore been entered into by all the clients that I have represented is hereby stipulated with respect to the service of the subpena in the capacity as stated. Also, with respect to the fact that the witness has been apprised of the chairman's opening statement. Mr. Weltner. All right, thank you, Mr. Chalmers. I advise the witness that this committee does not accept his rea- sons for refusing to produce the documents and, accordingly, this committee orders you to produce the documents required in that subpena. Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Stewart, paragraph 2 of the subpena calls for you to produce : All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as present or past member or Kligrapp of the United Klans of America, Inc.. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said orga- nization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds pre- viously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Witness, the committee does not accept your claim of privilege in this matter, and I take it we have the same .stipulation with regard to this paragraph ? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Consequently, the committee directs you to produce the documents called for in the subpena. Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, paragraph 3 called for the production of corporate tax returns covering the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi. We have been advised by the Internal Revenue Service that no returns have been filed, and I shall not ask for production of those returns. Mr. Stewart, I hand you a series of photographs, taken at a United Klans of America rally, in the Crossroads community of Poplarville, Mississippi. The first photograph shows a Klansman in a red robe. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that that is yourself. Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel my rights might tend to incriminate me 2996 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. (sic) in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 to the Constitution of tlie United States of America. Mr. Appell. Photographs two and, three show Klansmen, some with black robes and black hoods, others merely in black hoods, and at least one Klansman in a white robe, each with sidearms, giinbelt, holster, which shows outside of the uniform. Can you explain to the committee the necessity of Klansmen in this type of outfit at public rallies of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to answer. I respectfully de- cline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Photographs previously marked "Ernest Gilbert Exhibit No. 2." See pp. 2949, 2950.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Stewart, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that in May of 1965 at a State meeting of the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi, you were elected to the position of kligrapp or secretary ? Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Under the "Constitution and Laws" of the United Klans of America, reports from subordinate units known as Klaverns are to be forw^arded to the secretary. The conunittee has obtained financial records relating to Klaverns within the State of Mississippi. I shall read these to you, and ask you at the conclusion to identify the position that each holds in the Klavern in the location represented by financial records : E. C. Nutty III, Ackerman, Mississippi ; ^ [William C. Long] ; Rob- ert Hudspeth, H-u-d-s-p-e-t-h, Ashland, Mississippi; John Wayne Hudson and Alton L. Stubs, Beulah, Mississippi; George Ballard, B-a-1-l-a-r-d, Brookliaven, Mississippi; E. B. Scott and Hoyt Phillips, P-h-i-1-l-i-p-s, Carthage, Mississippi; James Atkins, A-t-k-i-n-s, 415 Wilbright, Cokmibus, Mississippi ; Morris H. Aust, A-u-s-t, DeKalb, Mississippi; Perry Taylor, T-a-y-1-o-r, Box 281, the city is Desaute, Mississippi; Jolin W. Brewer, Greenville Unit 736, Greenville, Mis- sissippi ; R. D. Himt, H-u-n-t, 508 Erie Street, Jackson, Mississippi ; Jimmie King, Louise, Mississippi ; Bruce Williamson, Louisville, Mis- sissippi; Archie Pinnix, P-i-n-n-i-x, Maben, Mississippi; Gene C. Deer, D-e-e-r, McComb, Mississippi ; C. C. Warner, W-a-r-n-e-r, Mc- Comb, Mississippi ; F. J. Jones, McNeill, Mississippi ; Woodrow Spiers, S-p-i-6-r-s, McNeill, Mississippi; W. J. Means, M-e-a-n-s, Route 4, Morton, Mississippi; Adams County No. 719, Natchez, Mississippi; S. Davidson, 1202 Magnolia, Natchez, Mississippi; J. H.^ — L-y-e-r is the spelling of the last name — Natchez, Mississippi; Cecil Bemiett, B-e-n-n-e-t-t, Picayune, Mississippi; T. V. Carlisle, Kon Klave Klub, K-o-n K-1-a-v-e K-l-u-b, Quitman, Mississippi ; W. L. Overby, 0-v-6-r-b-3^, Raleigh, Mississippi; J. P. (Billy) Ambrose, Ripley, Mississippi; Earl G. Cardw^ell, C-a-r-d-w-e-1-1, Ripley, Mississippi; Wallace Turner, Ripley, Mississippi ; Eva M. Perkms, at Starkville, Mississippi;^ [Vernon Holloway] ; Charles Speed, Stonewall, Mis- sissippi; J. D. Pusock, P-u-s-o-c-k, Sturgis, Mississippi; Dale O. Wal- 1 Bank official issuing money order. The committee has no knowledge of, nor does It imply, any Klan affiliation. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2997 ton, Tupelo, Mississippi ; D. A. Hendry, H-e-n-d-r-y, Route 5, Waynes- boro, Mississippi. The names that I have read to you all are makers of checks paying money to the United Klans of America, Alabama Eescue Service. I ask you what position each of them holds within the organization ? Mr. Weltner. Well, put the first name to him, Mr. Appell, and ask him that. Mr. Appell. E. C. Nutty III.^ Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. The second name I read to you from Ashland was Mr. Robert Hudspeth, H-u-d-s-p-e-t-h. Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact — — Mr. Weltner. Wait. Let him respond to the question. Mr. Chalmers. I don't believe there was a question asked, Mr. Chair- man. No question posed, Mr. Appell. I just said, "The second name was," and I was going to continue, Mr. Chairman. I put it to you as a fact that he is the secretary-treasurer of a Klaveni which operates a bank account at the Bank of Blue Momitain, Blue Mountain, Mississippi, under the name of the Wliite People's March for Freedom. Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that, question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that in the Pearl River area or county of Mississippi there is a Klavern which is known by the name of the United Conservatives of Miss., Inc., #1, and I might say, Mr. Chairman, that according to the records of the secretary of state, this organization has never filed incorporation papers. According to the records subpenaed from the Washington Bank and Trust Company of Bogalusa, Louisiana, the officers of that Klavern, as of October 11, 1965, were Charles J. Seal, president; Pat Moak, M-o-a-k, vice president; J. L. Simmons, treasurer; B. L. Sellers, secretaiy; T. P. Wheat, assistant treasurer; Cecil Bemiett, assistant secretary. I ask you to affirm or deny the fact that as of the date of October 11, 1965, they were the officers of that Klavern, and they were making financial reports to the secretary of the Realm of Mississippi in their capacity. Mr. Stewart, Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the groimds previously stated. (Document previously marked "George Harris Exhibit No. 3." See p. 2632.) Mr. Appell. Mr, Stewart, can you explain to the committee the workings of a klokann committee ? Mr. Stewart. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that a klokann committee, on a Klavern level, on a province level, or on a State level, is comprised of people whose sole responsi- 1 See footnote 1, p. 2996. 2998 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. bility is to make investigations and to carry out acts of violence on behalf of a Klan organization ? Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Have you ever served on a klokann committee ? Mr. Stewart. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon tlie grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused. Call your next witness. Mr. Appell. Paul L. Foster. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. Foster. I do. Mr. Weltner. Be seated. TESTIMONY OF PAUL LAFAYETTE FOSTER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, will you state your full name for the record ? Mr. Foster. Paul Lafayette Foster. Mr. Weltner. Just a moment. Proceed. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 30th day of October 1965 at 114 Main Street, Natchez, Mississippi ? Mr. Foster. I am. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, I put it to you as a fact- Mr. Weltner. One moment. The witness is represented by coun- sel? Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Will counsel state his name? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501 First Federal Building, Ealeigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, I put it to you as a fact that 114 Main Street, Natchez, Mississippi, the place where you were served by In- vestigator Sullivan, is the office headquarters of the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi. Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reasons that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incrim- inate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 14, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you were the first grand chaplain of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, do you know James K. Greer, G-r-e-e-r ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 2999 (At this point Representative Pool entered the hearing room.) Mr. Appell. In October 1964, Mr. Foster, Mr. Greer was arrested for an act of violence by the Mississippi Highway [Safety] Patrol and in the course of interrogation of Mr. Greer, he made the following statement to the Mississippi Highway Patrol, referring to people that he knew in the Klan. The report of interview^ states : Greer states that these individuals advocate violence and are extremely strong segregationists : Ernest Finley, Frank L. Gaston, Charles L. James, Jeff Luke, Cecil Roberts, Paul L. Foster, Nelson Haney, Tommy L. Jones, Ed McDaniel, Myron Wayne Seale. Is the statement made by Mr. Greer to agents of the Mississippi Highway Patrol factual ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, did you join wdth the folloAving individ- uals whose names I just read to you — Charles James, Frank L. Gaston, E. L. McDaniel — and Thomas Young in forming a cover name for a Klavern under the name of the Adams County Civic & Betterment Association ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I hand you two documents, one, the minutes of orga- nization; two, the copy of filing of incorporation with the secretary of state of Mississippi, both of which reflect that Paul L. Foster is an officer of the organization ; and I ask you if these documents are factual? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer tliat question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Documents marked "Paul Foster Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2," respec- tively. Exhibit No. 1 retained in committee files. Exhibit No. 2 appears in committee report. The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement, pp. 859-361.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, did there appear in the issue of the Natchez Democrat^ a newspaper published in Natchez, Mississipjoi, on Novem- ber 1, 1964, an article which states that the "Adams County Civic and Betterment Association" protests action by the Highw^ay Patrol ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. (Document marked "Paul Foster Exhibit No. 3" follows:) Paul Foster Exhibit No. 3 [Natchez (Miss.) Democrat, Nov. 1,. 1964] In This Area — Protest Action Highway Patrol The Adams County Civic and Betterment Association, which was formally or- ganized here a short time ago and which is chartered in Mississippi, has adopted a Resolution deploring the unlawful arrest and search by the State Highway Patrol in Natchez and Adams County and launching a campaign to raise funds to employ necessary legal counsel for their defense. The Resolution also requests the representatives from Natchez and Adams County in the Legislature take the necessary aaad appropriate action "guarantee our constitutional rights of freedom from unlawful searches and seizures." The Adams County Civic and Betterment Association is rejwrted by its oficials [sic] as a civic organization which does not condone any type of violence of any nature. The general purpose of the club, they said, is to advance the 3000 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. educational, civic and social interests of Adams County. Mississippi; to pro- mote integrety [sic] and good faith among the citizens of Adams County; to acquire, preserve and distribute educational, civic and social statistics and in- formation of value to the people of Adams County ; to develop an interest on the part of its members and citizens in Adams County in registering to vote and voting in state, local and national elections ; and to encourage and foster the active interest of members in civic, social and moral welfare of this com- munity. We are taking this means of presenting this petition to the people with the hope that there are others who feel as we do about the activities that are taking place among us today. If you are concerned and want to help, "you may send your donation to P. O. Box 1111, Natchez, Miss., aiid be sure that all of your contribution will be used for the sole purpose of helping those who need financial help," Paul L. Foster, President, said. The Resolution which was adopted by the organization was as follows: RESOLUTION AND PETITION WHEREAS, during the past several months, many citizens of Adams County have been arrested in connection with recent bombings and have been illegally harassed and searched by the Mississippi Highway Patrol (acting under recently passed legislation), and a "Police State" now exists in this section of the State of Mississippi, in direct violation of our fundamental constitutional rights ; and WHEREAS, such action causes tension, turmoil and strife to the i)eople of our state and community and, if continued, will necessarily result in forceful resisitance to such unlawful action by the state officials ; and WHEREAS, the undersigned believe in constitutional government, in obey- ing the laws of our land, and, specifically, that a citizen is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, regardless of his color, creed or nationality ; and WHEREAS, the unlawful state activities, above, have been brought about through actions and pressures of NAACP, CORE, COFO, SNCC and the National Council of Churches and other oommimist-front organizations not only pressur- ing our government, but in spending millions of dollars to create strife within the State of Mississippi ; and WHEREAS, NAACP, COFO and the other above named organizations are spending millions of dollars to create hatred between the Negro and white races in Mississippi and it is necessary that white Americans defend our traditions and race; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the undersigned that in sup- port of our traditional way of life and in support of maintining [sic] law, and order and peaceful relations between the white and Negro races, we do pledge our- selves to raise funds for the support of those persons who have been unlaA\^illy arrested by the State Highway Patrol, and urge other citizens to contribute to- ward their defense, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the undersigned do hereby request our local representatives in the State Legislature to take appropriate action to guar- antee our constitutional rights of freedom from unlawful searches and seizures, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we do seek from the public funds foi the defense of our white citizens and for the protection of our traditional way of life, requesting that any such funds be sent to the undersigned organization. This money will be used solely for LEGAL FUNDS ONLY ADAMS COUNTY CIVIC AND BETERMENT [sic] ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT : Paul L. Foster TREASURER C. E. James John D. Druetta Mail any donations to Adams County Civic and Betterment Club P. O. Box 111 Natchez, Miss. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3001 Mr. Appell. Ill this statement or according to the article which was adopted by the Adams County Civic & Betterment Association, tlie article shows that it was issued by Paul L. Foster as president. The Highway Patrol and other agencies, law enforcement agencies, were accused of illegal arrest and illegal search and seizure. Was this resolution adopted by the Adams County Civic & Better- ment Association, a cover of a Klan, in order to protect. Klansmen who were being arrested for acts of violence in wdiich they were engaged ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I hand you a registration, copy of the original regis- tration of the Dinkler-Tutwdler Hotel, in Birmingham, Alabama, September 4, and the year is 1964, and ask you after you revicAv that signature, whether or not you attended the Imperial Klonvokation held in Birmingham in September 1964? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document marked "Paul Foster Exhibit No. 4-- follows:) Paul Foster Exhibit No. 4 953 FOSTER PAUL L 7-54 6565f NAT MISS f*4 RS H 65659 PLEASE CHECK YOUR BAGGAGE OR SEND SAME TO YOUR ROOM : OTHERWISE THE HOTEL COMPANY WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR LOSS Dinkier -Tutwiler DIRECTION DINKLER HOTEL CORPORATION "DISPENSERS OF TRUE SOUTHERN HOSPITAUTY" BLES. MONEY. Name fii-ZJ^/C W^ Rate Street ^^^ ./^UJ^^^J^ State^^g^^^^ City ^Z / Stale 1 U smTwtfs Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you bom, Mr. Foster? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view^ of the wntness' claim of privi- lege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Foster. Paul Lafayette Foster was born on July 28, 1923, at Newhebron, Mississippi. He was educated at and I don't know the proper pronun- ciation, so I will spell it, H-e-u-c-k's Eetreat, located in Lincoln Coun- 3002 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. ty, Mississippi ; for 1 year at the Copiah-Lincoln Junior College, Wes- son, Mississippi; 3 years at Mississippi College, Clinton, Mississippi. He served in the Army from December 7, 1942, to September 21, 1945, with the rank of Pfc, and was honorably discharged. Since 1952, he has been employed as a schoolteacher, a salesman of stationery supplies; and since 1956, with the International Paper Com- pany. He presently holds the position of payroll control clerk. Foster, a member of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mis- sissippi became the organization's first grand chaplain in February of 1964. In June 1964, he was the exalted cyclops of the combined Mor- gantown and Adams County Klavern of the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. In July 1964, Paul Foster and other members discussed the dis- affiliation with the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and joining the United Klans of America. On August 8, 1964, Charles E. James, Frank L. Gaston, E. L. Mc- Daniel, Paul Foster, and Thomas Young, all former members of the "\^niite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, met for the purpose of charter- ing a UKA Klavern under the cover name of the Adams County Civic & Betterment Association. E. L. McDaniel is the present Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America for the Realm of Mississippi. Corporation papers were filed with the secretary of state by Charles E. James, Frank L. Gaston, and Paul L. Foster, on Augiist 16, 1964. Paul Foster thereafter became president of the association, and exalted cyclops of the Klavern. Charles E. James became the kli- grapp or secretary of both organizations. On November 1, 1964, there appeared in the Natchez Democrat a resolution passed by the Adams County Civic & Betterment Associa- tion. This petition was intended to give support to fellow members of the United Klans of America who had been arrested by the Missis- sippi Highway Patrol. The resolution accused the Mississippi High- way Patrol of having made illegal search and arrest, and declared a " 'Police State' now exists in this section" — referring to Adams Coun- ty — "of the State of Mississippi." This Klavern of the United Klans of America resolved in its resolu- tion, among one of its resolves, that— in support of our traditional way of life and in support of maintining [sic] law. and order and peaceful relations between the white and Negro races, we do pledge ourselves to raise funds for the supiiort of those persons who have been unlawfully arrested by the State Highway Patrol, and urge other citizens to contribute towards their defense. The resolution was signed by Paul L. Foster, president, C. E. James, and John D. Druetta. ( See Paul Foster Exhibit No. 3. ) James Kenneth Greer, in a statement to the Mississippi Highway Patrol on October 25, 1964, identified as Klansmen who advocated violence and are extremely strong segregationists: Paul L. Foster, Ernest Finley, Frank L. Gaston, Charles E. James, Jeff Luke, Cecil Roberts, Nelson Haney, Thomas L. Jones, Ed McDaniel, and Myron Wayne (Jack) Seale. Mr. Weltner. Is that Ed McDaniel, E. L. McDaniel? Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. In May of 1965, Paul L. Foster was elected the Grand Klaliff or vice president of the Realm of Mississippi. This information, Mr. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3003 Chairman, indicates that Mr. Foster possesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would ma- terially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legislation. Mr. Pool (presiding). Does that finish your statement? Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Mr. Pool. Mr. Witness, you have heard the sworn statement of the committee's investigator. You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state- ment, to affirm, deny, or admit the truth of any allegation, and to explain or modify any part of that statement. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matters which the committee may deem relevant to this inquiry. Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Pool. Mr. Foster, I must inform you that, absent your rebuttal or other facts that may come to the attention of this committee, this committee will reply upon the accuracy of its investigation, and bear- ing this in mind, have you anything to say ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. counsel. Mr. Appell. Mr. Foster, I hand you a sheet of paper upon which there is typed the names of nearly 50 employees of the International Paper Company, Natchez, Mississippi. I ask you to review this list and to advise the committee as to which individuals appearing on that list you knew to be members of eit^her the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi or the United Klans of America. (Document handed to witness.) Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. (Document marked "Paul Foster Exhibit No. 5.*' The list follows :) Paul Foster Exhibit No. 5 Aldridge, J. C. Aldridge, Virgil G. AUen, William T. Anderson, Robert M. Ashley, Buford W. Avants, James A. Avants, Ernest H. Bruitt, Harvey, .Jr. Buckles, Billy D. Burchfield, Jasper W. Burgess, Lavon Chisholm, Vernon E. Clanton, Oscar R. Cloy, Ware Thomas Cothern, Alfred M. Covvart, Walter R. Davidson, Charles O. Dawson, John Dillon, William M. Druetta, John D. Duncan, Ben G., Jr. Dungan, Frank P. Edwards, Charles E. Edwards, Charlesi M. Elledge, Clinton H. Elveston, James Elveston, James F. Felter, William TTiomas Foster, Paul L. Freeman, Frankie Gene Freeman, Joel Ray Fuller, Claude W. Gardner, A. J. Germany, Otis K.. Jr. Greer, James K., Jr. Griffin, Claude A. Griffin, David C. Hardy, Joe Lee Hinson, Leslie AV. House, Marion L. Howington, Charles A. Howington, iYed W. Jones, Tommy L. Kepper, Dudley E. Klar, F. C. McManus, L. E. Nail, Louis C. Nash, David C. Pickering, R. A. Roberts, Alton I. Scarborough, J. L. Spring, Claude D. Spring, James W. Spring, Warren E. Story, E. R. Sturgis, James W. Sutton, C. L. Thurmon, F. H. Torgersen. Thore L. Trevillion, S. R. Tynes, Charles R. Tyson, Oliver L., Jr. AVheeler, Earl Wheeler, Herman R. White, Charles, Jr. Wilkinson, Donald H. Wright, Raymond S. Young, Joseph Lloyd Young, Lloyd C. 3004 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the reason the list was submitted to Mr. Foster was in hopes that he could confirm the results of tlie commit- tee's investigation that the persons listed thereon have held member- ship in either the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi or the United Klans of America. Mr. Pool. That is the results of your investigation ? Mr. Appell. That is the results of the staff's investigation; yes, sir. Mr. Pool. Do you want to include this list in the record ? Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask that that list and the other documents referred to of this witness be introduced at the place referred to. Mr. Pool. No objection ? So ordered. Mr. Weltner. Let me ask the witness if any of the persons whose names appear on that list is a member of either the White Knights or the United Klans of America. Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Pool. Are any of the employees on this list not members, to your knowledge, of the Klan organization ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Pool. Thfe reason I ask you that, in all fairness, if you know for a fact they are not members, you should speak up now. Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, leased upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Foster, I understand you were the first grand chaplain of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi, or at least our investigation so indicates. Now according to Article II, Section 18 of the constitution of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (Gordon Lackey Exhibit No. 2) , the grand chaplain, and I quote : The Grand Chaplain shall serve in the capacity of Christian advisor on all questions of morals and idealistic Klavern conduct. A. In eases of extreme penalties the advise [sic] of the Grand Chaplain shall be sought and considered. As grand chaplain, was your advice sought and considered in ex- treme penalties? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Buchanan. What are those extreme penalties ? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Buchanan. Our investigation has revealed there are four kinds of projects carried out by the Wliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and Project No. 4 is extermination. Is this an extreme penalty? Mr, Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Buchanan. You have been a high-ranking officer of first, Wliite Knights, and then the United Klans in Mississippi, from our evidence. I note that you are a graduate of a Christian college, a ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3005 former school teacher. What good things can you tell us about either of these Klan organizations that would make them worthwhile for people to join and support? Mr. Foster. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Buchanan. Well, I wish you would tell us something good. We haven't heard anything in all our weeks of investigation to date. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Weltner. Well, we heard about that "needy committee" yes- terday, which was a faint light on an otherwise dark horizon. Mr. Buchanan. Well, w^e also heard that the White Knights Avere instructed by their Imperial Wizard not to associate with the United Klans people. I suppose one might consider that a stroke for one organization or the other ; I am not sure. Mr. Weltner. No questions. Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently. Call your next witness. Mr. Appell. Mr. Ernest Parker. Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testimon}^ you are about to give will be the truth, the w^hole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Parker. I do. TESTIMONY OF ERNEST BUCHANAN PARKER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, will you state your full name for the record ? Mr. Parker. Ernest Buchanan Parker. Mr. Appell. We have no microphone in this room, Mr. Parker, so that you will have to speak up so that the committee and others can hear you. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 30, 1965, at the United Klans headquarters in Natchez, Mississippi, 114 Main Street ? Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, may I state, sir, that the witness here that I represent, Ernest Buchanan Parker, is here as a result of a subpena served upon him, dated the 6th day of October 1965. Mr. Pool. Have you identified yourself, counsel ? Mr. Chalmers. No, sir; I will. T am Lester V. Chalmers, Jr.. attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Pool. And you are representing the witness? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; I do. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to answer as to whether or not he was served by Investigator Sullivan of this office, as the return reflects at 114 Main Street, Natchez, Mis- sissippi. Mr. Pool. I direct you to answer the question. Mr. Parker. Yes, sir. Mr. Pool. What was the answer? Mr. Parker. Yes, sir. 3006 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Pool. Now the Chair wislies to make this statement, and the Chair wishes to state to the witness and ask the witness, have you been furnished a copy of the chairman's" opening statement of Oc- tober 19, 1965, and are you familiar with its contents? Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, so stipulated. Mr. Pool. In other words, the stipulation in the directions of the subpena to produce the documents called for made Mr. Chalmers. I don't think that has been asked yet. Mr. Pool. That has not been asked ? Mr. Chalmers. No, sir. Mr. Pool, All right, that is not stipulated up to this point. All right, go ahead. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, when and where were you bom ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me under the amend- ments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, do you know Myron Wayne Mr. Pool. Just a moment, please. Go ahead. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, do you know Myron Wayne — who is popularly known as "Jack" — Seale ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, Mr. Seale was arrested by the Mississippi Highway Patrol in connection with an assault upon a white male, Bruce Lloyd Payne. In the course of an interrogation by the Mis- sissippi Highway Patrol, I will read from a report of statements made by Mr. Seale : Seale stated that his closest associate in Natchez is Ernest Parker. He stated that he considered Ernest Parker to be his best friend and that they hunt and fish together frequently. He further stated that he often soes with Parker in Parker's airplane. He stated Parker has a four-seater plane which is white with red stripes. He stated Parker is a very cautious pilot. Parker and Seale usually fly from Natchez up to "Palmyra" [P-a-1-m-y-r-a], which Seale de- scribed as an island on the Mississippi River. He stated that this is a 35,000- acre island and that Parker owns 25,000 acres of the island. Parker has at least 500 head of cattle on this island and Seale and Parker often fly up to the island to take care of these cattle. He stated that sometimes they drive up to the island or to Tallulah, Mississippi, where they visit friends. He stated that Ernest Parker and his brother Lee Parker own a large barge which they can take out to the island. He stated that last summer while bringing a truck with 26 head of cattle from the island to the mainland, the barge tilted, causing the cattle and truck to go overboard. * * * Do you own 25,000 acres on an island called Palmyra Island ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, according to the McComb, Mississippi, Enterprise- J ournal^ two bodies were found in what is known as the Old River, Charles Moore and Henry Dee. Do you possess any knowledge of how those bodies got into the Old River? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3007 Mr. Appell. In puttino; the case together, Mr. Parker, it was re- constructed that, in order to get two bodies tied by chains and tied to an engine block of a jeep, there was only a certain type of boat that could be possibly used, and the only type of boat on the river which could be used for this was a barge similar to the one that you own. Was your barge used for this, with or without your knowledge ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Investigation found several old Willys jeep chassis on your property, and the bodies were weighted down with a motor block from a jeep. Was the motor block from any jeep chassis that was on your property ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, according to your Federal income tax returns, in April of 1964, as reflected by your 1964 tax return, you purchased mobile radios costing$783.97. Were those radios used to
carry out projects of Klan organizations, either the White Knights
or presently the United Klans of America?

Mi\ Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon gi'ounds previously stated.

(Document marked "Ernest Parker Exhibit No. 1" and retained
in committee files.)

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, is that two-way radios? Citizens band?

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, we have not located an application for
a citizens band radio at this time, which does not infer that there is
not one. However, the only knowledge that we at this moment possess
is the deduction on $783.97 on Mr. Parker's tax returns for the pur- chase of mobile radios. Mr. Pool. It is possible to use these radios without having a license. Is that correct ? Mr. Appell. I don't think that they can be used witliout a license, sir. Mr. Pool. Well, as a practical matter, though, they could use them. Mr. Appell. Illegally. Mr. Pool. Illegally, but they could be used. Mr. Appell. Oh, yes, sir. One of the problems that tlie Federal Communications Commission has is attempting to monitor the citizens band radios for any illegal use. There are too many in existence. Mr, Pool. They are supposed to call out the call letters, l>efore and after a conversation, I believe. Is that correct ? Mr, Appell. I am not that familiar with the requirements, sir, Mr. Pool. I think it is. Just a minute. Under the rules of the House, this hearing shall not l3e recorded on a tape machine. I understand that one of the people in the audi- ence has a recording machine and has the microphone out. Will you officers check that to see if that is true? Mr. Scoggin? Under the rules of the House, you are violating the rules by having the machine in operation while these hearings are going on, and the Chair will not give you another warning on it. Don't do it any more. Will you come here to the Chair? Mr. Scoggin? Come up here to the Chair and bring your machine up here. 59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 8 3008 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Chalmers, will you come up with him ? (Discussion off the record.) Mr. Pool. Will the reporter show on the record that Mr. Scoggin says that he has not been playing the tape recorder and that there is nothing on the tape at this time? All right, go ahead. Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, in March of 1964, were you the exalted Cyclops of a Klavern of the ^^^lite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi known as the Morgantown Klavern ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Have you used your airplane for the purpose, either you as the pilot or authorized the use for the purpose of dropping Klan literature in various sections of Mississippi ? Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claims of priv- ilege and his refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the results of its investigation on Mr. Parker. Ernest Buchanan Parker was born on May 4, 1930, at Natchez, Mississippi. He served in the U.S. Navy Reserve from 1947 to 1952, when he was honorably discharged. He is a self-employed farmer and cattleman, with financial interests in oil and timber. He owns a four-seater airplane, make unknown. In March 1964, he was the exalted cyclops of the Morgantow^n Klavern of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi. In April 1964, he purchased mobile radios costing$783.97.

In August 1964, he withdrew from the "Wliite Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of Mississippi and affiliated with the United Klans of
America, Realm of Mississippi. He is a member of the Klavern known
as the Adams County Civic & Betterment Association.

With regard to the Adams County Civic & Betterment Association,
Parker is known to have stated that at public UKA rallies, nothing is
discussed, but at meetings of the new "civic" club, the Klan is able
to make plans and carry on any "real business."

Parker's plane was flown by himself or with a pilot having permis-
sion from Mr. Parker, and was used to drop Klan leaflets over Brook-
haven, Mississippi, over Philadelphia, Mississippi, in August 1964,
and in the Neshoba County Fair in 1965.

Parker is presently holding a position in the Realm of Mississippi,
United Klans of America.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Parker possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.

Mr. Pool. Does that complete your statement?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Witness, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's investigator.

You now have an opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment to confirm, admit, or deny the truth of any allegation, and to
explain or modify any part of that statement.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3009

In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter that the
committee may deem relevant to tliis inquiry.

Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon (grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. I must inform "you that, absent your rebuttal or other
facts that may come to the attention of the committee, this committee
will rely uf)on the accuracy of its investigation.

Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say ?

Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Parker, what is the "real business'' that can be dis-
cussed within the Klavern which is known as the Adams County Civic
& Betterment Association which can't be discussed at public Klan
rallies?

Mr. Parker. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. The staff has'no further questions to ask of this wit-
ness, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Mr.Weltner?

Mr. Buchanan ?

The witness is excused permanently.

Mr. Appell. Myron Wayne Seale.

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
lielp you God ?

Mr. Seale. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF MYRON WAYNE (JACK) SEALE, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, will you state your full name for the record?

Mr. Seale. Myron Wayne Seale.

Mr. Appell. Are you popularly known by the nickname of Jack?

Mr. Seale. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a
subpena served upon you at 114 Main Street, Natchez, Mississippi, on
October 30, 1965, by John D. Sullivan, an investigator of this com-
mittee?

Mr. Seale. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Seale. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Would counsel identify himself for the record ?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., Room 501, First Federal
Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, is it so stipulated the witness has been
furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement of October 19,
19G5, and that he is familiar with its contents ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; he is.

Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Seale ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, for
the reasons that I honestly feel that my answ^ers might tend to incrnni-
nate me in violations of my rights, and guaranteed by me by amend-

3010

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

merits 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, the name Seale in Mississippi is a name
used by many families. Some spell it S-e-a-1-e, some S-e-a-1, some
S-e-a-1-s. It is the correct spelling of your last name S-e-a-1-e?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; Mr. Chairman, It is stipulated that his
last name is S-e-a-1-e, as stated in the subpena.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, do you hold a position within the Klan of
Mississippi, the United Klans of America, within their security guard
and the rank of major ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Do you know John D. Sullivan, who sits across from
me, the investigator of the committee ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr, Appell, I hand you a photograph taken on October 30, 1965,
in Natchez, Mississippi, show^ing yourself, dressed in a military-type
uniform, major's rank, holding a walkie-talkie radio, and I ask you
if the person photographed next to you is John D. Sullivan, investiga-
tor of this committee ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

(Photograph marked "Myron Seale Exhibit No. 1" follows:)

Myron Seale Exhibit No. 1

Photograph taken October 30, 1965, in Natchez, Miss. Person at left in military-typt
uniform with walkie-talkie radio is Myron Wayne (Jack) Seale; the other is John D
Sullivan, HCUA investigator.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

3011

Mr. Pool. How could that incriminate you, to make a statement like
that?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. ^Nlr. Seale, clo you laiow L. C. Murray, who is the field
secretary to Mr. McDaniel of the United Klans of America, Realm
of Mississippi?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I hand you a reproduction of a photograph that ap-
peared in the Clarion-Ledger of Jackson, Mississippi, Monday, July
19, 1965, which contains two individuals in Klan robes, and according
to the caption these two Klansmen were in Bogalusa, Louisiana, drum-
ming up business or interest for a United Klans rally to be held in
Crossroads, Mississippi, July 19 or 21 of 1965.

In handing^ you this photograph, I put it to you as a fact, and ask
you to affirm or deny the fact, that the two Klansmen shown are your-
self, Jack Seale, and L. C. Murray ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

(Photograph marked "Myron Seale Exhibit No. 2" follow^s:)

Myron Seale Exhibit No. 2
Jackson, Miss., C larion- Ledger, ]u\y 19, 1965]

KLAN PARADES IN BOGALUSA— Two hooded white men
who identified themselves as members of the Knights of
the Ku Klan of Natchez, Miss, pass Louisiana state
troopers, one of which gives a big grin to the Klansmen.
The Klansmen walked the streets of Bogalusa recently to re-
mind Bogalusa residents of a KKK rally at Crossroads,
Miss.— AP Wirephoto.

[No. 1 Myron Wayne (Jack) Seale; No. 2 is L. C. Murray.]

3012

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. I hand you another photograph which appeared in
many newspapers throughout the United States, this one from the
Emporia, Kansas, Gazette^ which has a caption to the photograph
which reads "Klan Guard Eyes Marchers*' :

Jack Seale, who identified liimself as a major in the security guard of the
Mississippi chapter of the Ku Klux Klan at Natchez, watches as nearly 1,000
civil rights marchers pass in downtown Natchez. Seale said that he and 14 othei
KKK security guards were on hand "to keep the peace" during the demonstration.

I hand you that photograph and ask you : Why is it necessary for
the security guard of the Ku Klux Klan organization to be around in
order to keep the peace ?

Mr, Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
basis previously stated.

(Photograph marked "Myron Seale Exhibit No. 3" follow^s:)

Myron Seale Exhibit No. 3

[Emporia, Kansas, Ga~elte, November 1, 1965]

KLAN GUARD EYES MARCHERS — Jnck 1,000 civil rights marchers pass in downtown

Seale, who identified himself as a major in the Natchez. Seale said that he and 14 other KKK

security guard of the Mississippi chapter of the security guards were on hand 'to keep the

Ku Jilux Klan at Natchez, watches as nearly peace" during the demonstration. (AP)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, were you arrested in connection with an
assault on a boy by the name of Payne and another by the name of
Green ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I hand you a reproduction of a photograph which
appeared in the Natchez (Mississippi) Democrat, of October 24, 1964,
and the caption to the photograph reads :

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3013

Collection of weapons — Federal Bureau of Investigation and State Highway
Patrol officials stationed in Natchez yesterday uncovered this collection of
weapons and ammunition in connection with their investigations here. All the
weapons and ammnnition with the exception of the two pistols, came from
the home of M. W. "Jack" Scale, arrested here early yesterday morning and
charged with assault and battery with intent to kill in connection with an assault
on two civil rights workers near Port Gibson on Oct. 31. Scale was the fifth
Natchez man charged in the assault.

In looking at that photograph, explain to the committee why any-
one needs such an arsenal ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

(Photograph marked "Myron Seale Exhibit No. 4." See committee
report. The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan Movement^ p. 109.)

Mr. Appell. Were any of the w^eapons shown in the photograph,
which includes a carbine, used for any illegal purpose by you ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, you were in the room when I read to Mr.
Parker the portion of a statement which according to the Mississippi
Highway Patrol you made to them on October 26, 1964. Is that which
I read to Mr. Parker factual ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Now" Mr. Seale, it is the committee's understanding and
knowledge that James Seale, arrested in the connection with the dis-
appearance of Charles Edward Moore and Henry Ezekiel Dee, is your
brother

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully

Mr. Appell. — and that Charles Marcus Edwards, also arrested, is

Do you possess any knowledge of the picking up of Moore and Dee
and of any subsequent actions taken by the 12 to 15 Klansmen who
Charles Marcus Edwards said participated in the beating, which re-
sulted in their bodies winding up in the Old River near Palmyra
Island?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Did you participate in the acts against Henry Dee and
Charles Moore ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Do you possess any kno^vled^e as to the type of trans-
portation used to take these bodies to the river or the location from
where the jeep motor block was obtained ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, Bruce Lloyd Payne and George Green were
beaten in October 1963, and a car driven by them was shot at in No-
vember of 1963.

Did you participate in either the beating or the firing into their
vehicle ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

3014 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Seale.

Myron Wayne "Jack" Seale was bom September 4, 1926, at Brook-
haven, Mississippi.

He completed 11 years of formal education. He served in the United
States Navy from October 1944 to December of 1947.

He operates a garbage collection business in Natchez, Mississippi.
He is the son of Clyde and the brother of James Ford Seale, both of
whom have been witnesses during the current investigation.

He joined the TVliite Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in 1964 and
transferred to the United Klans of America. He is a member of the
Adams County Klavern, known as the Adams County Civic & Better-
ment Association.

In May of 1965, he was elected to the office of grand night-hawk
for the Realm of Mississippi.

The Natchez Democrat^ issue of October 24, 1964, reported that
Myron Wayne "Jack" Seale was arrested in comiection witli an alleged
attack on two civil rights workers in Clarion County, Mississippi, on
October 31, 1963.

At the time of his arrest, rifles, ammunition, and knives were seized.
Arrested along with Mr. Seale on the same charge were Ernest Henry
Avants, Frank Hyman Thunnan, John William Barber, and James
Kenneth Greer. Charges were dropped when the civil rights workers
refused to return to Mississippi for the trial.

At the time of arrest, Seale denied membership in the Klan. He
acknowledged knowing the following all identifiable Klansmen:
Ernest Parker, Charles Edwards, Douglas Byrd, James L. McKinney,
Ernest Avants, and Alton Roberts.

James Kenneth Greer, arrested for the same offense, identified Myron
Wayne Seale as a Klansman who advocated violence.

On October 18, 1964, he purchased a greenish-blue Chevrolet, which
was observ^ed on November 2, 1963, pursuing a car bearing the same
two civil rights workers assaulted in October 1963. Three shots were
fired into the rear of the civil rights workers' car after they sped away
from their pursuers. Seale's car is equipped with a radio receiver
capable of monitoring police calls. Seale is a major in the United
Klans of America security guard.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Seale possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Seale, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's investigator.

You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment, to confirm, admit, or deny the truth of any allegation, and to
explain or modify any part of the statement.

In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the com-
mittee may deem relevant to this inquiry.

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3015

Mr, Pool. I must inform you that, absent your rebuttal or other
facts that may come to the attention of the committee, this committee
will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.

Bearing this in mind, have you anything to say ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer this question, based
upon the grounds j)reviously stated.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Seale, w^iat use do you make of the radio which
is located in your car ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the gi'ounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. "Wliat use is made of the walkie-talkie radios which
are very popular among Klansmen ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I refuse — I respectfully refuse to answer that ques-
tion, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Investigation establishes, Mr. Seale, that under the
night-hawk, there is appointed a klokann committee ; that this klokann
committee is responsible for investigations on, in your case, the State
level, and for the selecting of men who might carry out acts of violence
or acts of intimidation.

Can you explain to the committee how the klokann committee works
in the State of Mississippi ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. As grand night-hawk, have you ever commissioned a
fellow Klansman to engage in an act of intimidation or violence?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Was it under your orders as grand night-hawk or under
the orders of the Grand Dragon for the State of Mississippi, Mr.
McDaniel, that according to the State Highway Patrol, some 70 crosses
were burned throughout Mississippi in protest of the renewal of hear-
ings of this committee ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
ask of this witness.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, I have a question.

Mr. Seale, on this photograph that was exhibited to you a few mo-
ments ago, I note you have what appears to be a five-cell flashlight
in a holster, strapped to a webb belt.

Now the photograph clearly shows this was a daytime rally. I
wonder if you will tell me why you had a flashlight such as this for
a daytime rally ?

( Photograph handed to witness. )

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. AVeltner. Well, is that flashlight ever used as a w^eapon, as a
club?

Will you answer that ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

3016 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Weltner. I have been advised that, on occasion, those long
flashlights, which are about 20 inches long, do not have batteries in
them, but that the cartridge is filled with a lead pipe. Is that tnie?
Have you ever carried a flashlight filled with a lead pipe ?

Mr. Seale. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. No further questions.

Mr. Pool. The witness is permanently excused.

The committee will stand in recess until 1 :15.

(Whereupon, at 11 :45 a.m., Thursday, February 3, 1966, the sub-
committee recessed, to reconvene at 1:15 p.m., the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION— THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1966

(The subcommittee reconvened at 1 :45 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, chair-
man, presiding. )

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Weltner,
and Buchanan.)

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Appell. Ernest Henry Avants.

Mr. Pool. Hold up your right hand.

Do you solemnely swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Avants. I do.

TESTIMONY OF ERNEST HENRY AVANTS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, TRAVIS BUCKLEY AND CHARLES J. MAY III

Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record ?

Mr. Avants. Ernest Henry Avants.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with the
subpena served upon you on the 3d day of November 1965 at the
International Paper Comany, Natchez, Mississippi ?

Mr. Avants. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Avants. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify themselves for the record, please?

Mr. Buckley. Travis Buckley, attorney at law. Bay Springs, Mis-
sissippi.

Mr. Pool. Will you stipulate that the witness has been furnished
a copy of the chairman's opening statement of October 19, 1965, and
is familiar with its contents?

Mr. Buckley. Yes, sir, we do so stipulate.

Mr. May. My name is Charles J. May III, attorney at law, Laurel,
Mississippi.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Avants, when and where Avere you born ?

Mr. Avants. It has changed its name from the time I was born.
It has changed names. Now it is — it was Pine Grove. Now, you say
Bogue Chitto, Mississippi.

Mr. Appell. The month, day, and year.

Mr. Avants. The 23d of January 1931.

Mr. Appell. What is your educational background ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3017

Mr. AvANTs. High school.

Mr. Appell. a graduate ?

Mr. AvANTs. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Since 1960, Mr. Avants, will you give the committee
the benefit of your occupational background ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question and
invoke as a defense the privilege guaranteed to me by the 5th, 4th, 1st,
and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Appell. Are you presently an employee of the International
Paper Company in Natchez, Mississippi ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Pool. The fact that you are employed at the paper company
would incriminate you ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Pool. I wonder what that paper company is going to think

Mr. Avants. For the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.

Mr. Pool. You are saying that your answering that question would
incriminate you ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to show that
Mr. Avants has been employed by the International Paper Company
since 1950 except for a period of military service and that he present-
ly holds the position of a bleach washman.

Mr. Pool. Bleach washer?

Mr. Appell. Washman.

Are you acquainted with James K. Greer?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. James K. Greer and yourself were arrested for assault
upon Lloyd — Bruce Lloyd Payne and George Green in October 1964?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. On October 22, 1964, did you make a statement to
agents of the Mississippi Highway Patrol following an arrest?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reason previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Avants, I have in front of me a copy of a state-
ment obtained from the Mississippi Highway Patrol which statement
contains the substance of an interview given by you on October 22,
1964. In the course of the interview the report states that you ad-
vised that you did not desire to furnish the names of any individuals
who were involved in any of the various bombings. You stated that
this group of individuals involved was a small militant group of the
United Klan in this area :

He said that he knows the identities of these individuals but refused to fur-
nish their identities. He stated that he feels it would be difficult to obtain ex-
plosives or dynamite in Adams County ; however, he stated that there is avail-

3018 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

able in Pike County all types of explosives which would be readily available to
anybody known in the area. He stated that he has no personal knowledge of
anyone in Adams County in possession of dynamite or other explosives other
than himself.

Who are the individuals about whom -you possess knowledge as to
their involvement in various bombings in the Adams County area of
Mississippi ?

Mr. AvANTS. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. The report continues : "During the course of this inter-
view he," referring to Avants —

voluntarily expressed an opinion that a small militant group of members of the
Klan were responsible for the bombings of the residence of Mayor John Nosser
and the Willie Washington residence at Natchez, Mississippi.

Who were involved in these bombings, Mr. Avants ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Were you one of those involved ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Weltner. Will counsel identify the incidents a little more
closely ?

Mr. Appell, Yes, the residence of the mayor of Natchez, Mayor
Nosser.

Mr. Weltner. The date of that ?

Mr. Appell. I do not have the date in this record.

And the residence of a resident of Natchez by the name of Willie
Washington.

Continuing the quote from the interview :

He said he has never resorted to the use of any type of explosives for any pur-
pose and possessed no knowledge of the existence of dynamite in this area.
However, he added a large quantity of explosives had been entrusted into his
custody and care. He pointed out that he was not a member of the organization
who furnished these explosives to him and refuse to identify this particular
organization. He stated that no weapons were included in this armament and
consisted entirely of ammunition, hand grenades and a quantity of C-3 explosives.

What are C-3 explosives, Mr. Avants?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, what are C-3 explosives?
Mr. Appell. I have no knowledge.
Mr. Pool. All right.
Mr. Appell. [Continues reading:]

According to Avants, this quantity of ammunition and armaments would be
utilized only upon the instructions and command of the Governor of the State of
Mississippi or the Sheriff of Adams County. At that time he indicated he would
also receive instructions as to the ultimate disposition of these explosives. He
described these explosives as being contained in metal containers of unknown
sizes and power of detonation. Upon receipt of this ammunition and explosives
he stated he personally concealed it in numerous locations in this area. He
claimed he acquired knowledge of the use of explosives through his military
service and National Guard association. He identified his wife as the only other
person who is in the possession of information as to the specific location of the
explosives and ammunition originally concealed by him. He said he was unaware
of the fact that this ammunition consisted of stolen U.S. Government propert.v
but indicated that the mark "U.S." appeared on a large quantity of this ammuni-

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3019

tion. He said that he believed that there are other caches throughout the
country which contain the weapons to fire the amnuxnition in his possession, and
that in case of an emergency these caches would be joined together for use.

Will you give to the committee the benefit of the knowledge as
expressed in the paragraph which I read to you, Mr. Avants?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Weltner. Let me ask a question : Is there such a cache of am-
munition or explosives?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Pool. In other words, you are going to let this statement stand
that there evidently is such a cache of explosives.

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfull}'
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Avants, James K. Greer, who was arrested at the
same time, identified you as a member of a Klavem of the Wliite
Knights which you shot up after getting drunk because you were dis-
turbed over the fact that members were not paying their dues. Is
the statement of James K. Greer given to the Mississippi Highway
Patrol factual ?

Mr. Avants. Sir, for the reasons previously stated, I respectfully
decline to answer that question.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, does the committee investigation indi-
cate that to date there is presently in existence in this area a supply
of hidden ammunition or explosives ?

Mr. Appell. I would assume that if knowledge were available as to
the contents of any caches that they would be seized by the Mississippi
enforcement authorities.

Mr. Weltner. I have no further questions.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan.

Mr. Buchanan. No questions.

Mr. Pool. Do you have any other questions, Mr. Appell?

Mr. Appell. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently.

Call your next vdtness.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Paul Wilson.

Mr. Pool. Will you raise your right hand, please ?

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the
whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Wilson. I do.

TESTIMONY OF PAUL DEWEY WILSON

Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record ?

Mr. Paul Wilson. Paul Dewey Wilson.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, 'I note you are not accompanied by coun-
sel. Do you desire counsel ?

Mr. Paul Wilson. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Have you been advised as to the fact that you have
the right before this committee in answering any questions that might

3020 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

be incriminating to yon to invoke the constitutional privilege of the
fifth amendment?

Mr. Paul Wilson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Have you received a copy and acquainted yourself
with the contents of the opening statement of the chairman on October
19,1965?

Mr. Paul Wilson. I have, sir.

Mr. Pool. Do you desire counsel at this time?

Mr. Paul Wilson. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, so that there be no question about
it, I suggest that the Chair advise the witness that at any time he
feels he might desire counsel he will have an opportunity to obtain it?

Mr. Pool. You are so advised. If you cannot afford counsel, the
committee will recommend to the bar association and people like that
to furnish counsel.

Mr. Appell. I ask you, Mr. Wilson, have you sought legal advise
prior to coming to Washington ?

Mr. Paul Wilson. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment,
sir.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing today in accordance with the
subpena served upon you on the 29th day of October 1965 by John D.
Sullivan, investigator for this committee ?

Mr. Paul Wilson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. When and where were you bom, Mr. Wilson ?

Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, I hand you a photograph of two different
exposures containing four Russian surplus rifles and other para-
phernalia. I ask you if these weapons and other items displayed in
the photographs were seized from you at the time of arrest by officers
of the Mississippi State Highway Patrol.

Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

(Photographs marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 1." One retained
in committee files; for other see committee rej)ort. The Present-Bay
Ku Klux Klan Movement^ p. 106.)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of Mr. Wilson's refusal to
answer committee questions, invoking his constitutional privileges, I
would like to present a resume of the committee's investigation as it
relates to Mr. Wilson.

Paul Dewey Wilson was bom on December 14, 1938, at Jayess,
Mississippi, His educational background is unknown. Prior to his
arrest in October 1964, he was employed as a carman apprentice with
the Illinois Central Railroad, McComb, Mississippi. Wilson, follow-
ing his arrest in October 1964, was interviewed by agents of the Adams
County Sheriff's Depa,rtment, Mississippi Highway Patrol, and Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation.

During the interview, Wilson advised that he joined the United
Klans of America in McComb, Mississippi, after being approached by
Ray Smith, an officer of the Klavern, to join. He attended his first
meeting at the Legion Hut in McComb, where 50 men were present,
all wearing white robes. He was sworn into the United Klans of
America by Eddie McDaniel, whom he described as an individual
whom he knew in McComb but who he stated was some kind of officer

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3021

in Natchez, Mississippi. He was issued a membership card, which he
tore up.

In the course of his first meeting he paid $10 initiation fee,$10 for
a robe, and was told that his dues would be $1 per month. Paul Wilson stated he attended meetings on Tuesday nights, with discussion generally relating to the movement and operations of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, communism, and integration. In declining to elaborate on his statement about the FBI, he stated that there were occasions when there were discussions about the neces- sity for obtaining more members who could be trusted. After a month the meeting place of the Klavern was changed to the second floor of the Hinton Building. He identified from personal knowledge the folloAving individuals as members who belonged or attended meetings of his Klavern : Ray Smith, employed by the Southern Bell Telephone Company, who was the EC of the Klavern. M. J. Duncan, an employee of the Firestone Store, who held the position at one time as outer guard. J. E. Thornhill, a wealthy oil man in McComb and Summit. With respect to his participation in acts of violence, he told the agents the following : Wilson advised that about three weeks to a month ago he received a telephone call from an individual who stated only that "I am a member of the K[lan]. You know me well." The voice, which was a man's, continued by stating he believed that if someone put a bomb in front of the house of a Negro preacher — name Wilson could not at this time recall — it would scare COFO and the other integrationists off and into leaving other people's business alone. Wilson advised that from conversation with this person he was able to Identify the Negro preacher referred to as a preacher whom he knows as an employee at Denny's Readi-Mix, a concrete mixing concern at McComb, Mississippi. The caller told him to go out past Quinn's Bridge, past the Booker T. Washington Negro School, and turn to the right on the second hill past the school. The caller stated that dynamite would be hidden on this road in some bushes about 60 or 70 yards down the road on the left-hand side of the road. Wilson advised that he went alone that night, about midnight, in his 1961 black Ford to the location described, where he found three sticks of dynamite hidden in the bushes, already fused and capped. Wilson stated he thereafter drove to the Negro preacher's house and sped away after throwing lighted dyna- mite package into the preacher's front yard. As he drove towards McComb. he heard the explosion. Wilson was questioned closely concerning this bombing and he insisted that it took place under the circum.stances described and that as far as he knew no other member of the Klan knew who did it. He insisted he was unable to identify the mysterious caller and would not answer when asked whether he was thus agreeable to bombing something just on an unidentified party advising him he was a Klan member. Wilson initially stated emphatically this was the only bombing concerning which he had any knowledge whatsoever. On further interrogation he admitted that on the night of September 20, 1964, he was with Ernest Frederick Zeeck and .Jimmy Wilson (the latter no relation) when the three of them in Paul Wilson's 1961 Ford bombed the Alyene Quinn's residence in McComb. Missis- sippi. He stated this bomb was composed of dynamite and it was actually lighted and thrown onto the porch by Ernest Zeeck. He recalled that an un- identified Negro man was observed by them on the street in the vicinity of the Quinn residence but claimed this man was about a block away and could not have identified them. 3022 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Wilson, did you make the statement read to you to agents of the sheriff's department and the agents of the Mississippi Highway Patrol ? Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, I hand you a listing by dates of the types of violence, bombing, flogging, arson, the place, location of where these things took place, happening in the McComb, Mississippi, area during the year 1964, and I ask you which of these acts you participated in as a memlDer of the United Klans of America. Mr. Weltner. Will you rephrase the question? Ask whether he participated in any of these acts. Mr. Appell. Did you participate in any of those acts? Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment. (Document marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 2" follows:) ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 2 3023 Violence - lyiMt McComb, '!iss. 2A/6U - Killing I.ouis Allen, ^ ibf>rty, Miss, ('lien was a witness tothe shooting of •lerhert Lee, 9/2'y/Hx, by State Repre. E.H. ihirst) ii/li/'Mi - Bombing Restaurant, I'ude, Miss. li/f-'/Hi - Bombing Pestaurant, Mc^i ir. Miss. U/28/6U - Bombing "Curtis Bryant, "JAArr" leafier, Hirb»rsh p, Haertowri, tliss. 6/19/^J. 6/22/^M. 7/8/6i . 7/17/^^ 7/1 M/^ 7/21/^Ii 7/22/^Ji • Bombing 'legro 'lotel, Jackson, I'iss. - Flogging '.•Jilbert Lewis, f'Vonb, Miss. - Hombings 1. ^rwlfiie Bates none 2. forrine Andrews hnme 3. i^rtis Bryant hone . Utte'n'^toii Roibinr - iirson - Arson - Burning - Arson r.egro do 1 iceman, '^.y Tot t on -'".T;-iTunr"^ers '^or Zion '11II Free '.'■•■'ist '^:r--, v-'^o'^.b, iiss. Swpft Hone Church, -"o i; , ^s-i. :'t. Vernon tiisslonary tiaj^tist ^hurch, i'c'onb, iss. rose Bower Missiongry Br.Mtint nhnrcb, ''c'^c.-r^ 'Iss. : lib in?: ..'at I'l.L.) KcGehee, ? 1- Charle.s 3rya."it, Morga^. * :ro ■O'i 7/30/^ - Shooting J.?. Leggett ho-ne, ''c'"onb, "is*^. f/5/^L - Arson ft. Canaan Missionary t'is* 'biro'.-., S-'dth^ ^f\S/'% - Killinc Charles Fuscl'.ens, I onti.-el ) 0, i'dss. f/\S/(ii - ''ombing -urt limd Super ?'arket, Fureka ''.ar.onir Lodj^e, H/lP/'ii - Arson attempt Vema Brown hone, 'ur^.'iund, "iss. \'/V}l(-h - Cross burnings O) ^tink bombing V2V^i .Hie J. "^illon, br- 9/3/-!i - 9/7/«4 - '\ssault "ombings 3 Cjiril Pif;ht?i •. i-kers. ■;onb 1. Pogue chit'.o, Miss - ■■..-ml hall 2. Auburn, f'.ias. - "frrp cbu-ch 3. Sumnit, "iss. - Hugh '..a?:' 1 \x. " " - Booker T. '^. ".agnolia, --133. - Allen "■ , 3h/^ - "onbing ^ev. .'a:-^;, r r br.^e. 9''20/6t! - Bombings 1. "ociety 'lill ilissionary Chirch, 2. .Myene ..luin home, llcConb, Kis.-^. horl, home. 3024 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 2— Continued y/23/^ - ''ombinpa • 1. "atthew .Tackson ho?ie, ".c'Zo'rU, fHss, 2. .\rtis Tamor iionr-, fio^n :i , ;;is3. ll/l"/^J< - ^catinp; Otis Matthews, a ur.ion n'"'"ioial, !'»iten by "laskwl "■en. n+hor acts of vlolf--n-;n 1955 - Killing La-nar ■>. 'J-nif- wA ■ rnokha^'f". , ' 1 - Killir.g "mrtift Til' 195!> 1-5 r.u «i«^ li/62 - Ki.i]ipi- ^; ' . '•'nran "urio.ior*' r' }/fii - '.L liriK "n.ft i.n VMl<''-r, 'i '■■:.", . las. 2/61i ' oy J. ''"eson (At this point Mr. Pool left the hearing room.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, Billy Earl Wilson testified before this committee on January 18, 1966. In the course of his testimony, he identified you as the person who indoctrinated him in Klan principles. He testified that he was a member of the Klavern of which Ray Smith was the exalted cyclops, that you are his first cousin, that you read off a list of names of members of the Klavern which was to leave that Klavern and form a new Klavern and when the new temporary Klavern was formed that you were elected the exalted cyclops. Did Billy Earl Wilson testify truthfully ? Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment. Mr. Appell. Billy Earl Wilson testified that on July 27, 1964, he participated in the bombing of the residence of Charles Bryan. He stated that Paul Wilson phoned him re the job, that you picked him up at his home about midnight and then picked up Hilton Dunaway, and that the three of you drove to a wooded area where you transferred into a '49 Plymouth and that you rode in the rear seat of the car, that Hilton Dunaway threw the bomb, and that while in the act of throwing the bomb someone fired upon you and that you returned the fire with a 16-gauge over and under shotgim. Is this testimony true? Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend- ment. Mr. Appell. Billy Earl Wilson testified that, at a meeting of the Klavern of wliich you were the EC, on two occasions, one on Septem- ber 1 and the second time on September 15, that you put a hat on the table and instructed the members to come and draw their jobs. Did you do such a thing ? Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend- ment. Mr. Appell. He testified that at the first drawing of slips on Sep- tember 1 he drew a slip containing the name of Alyene Quinn, however ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3025 lie could not go through with the job because his grandfather was visiting and he said that at a Klavern meeting on September 9 that you told him that you still had a bomb and wanted to unload it, so that you and he drove to the home of the Reverend James Baker at your suggestion, that you lit the fuse, and that he hurled it. Is this testimony true? Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fiftli amend- ment. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, I hand you a photograph of Louis An- thony DiSalvo and I ask you if you ever had any business relations with him. Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend- ment. (Photograph marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 3" and retained in committee files.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, can you explain to the committee why you had in your possession at the time of your arrest a cardboard carton which was mailed by Hunters Lodge in Alexandria, Virginia, which contained the name of Louis DiSalvo, and, of the rifles that I showed you, that four of those rifles' serial numbers appeared on the invoice of shipment of arms by Hunters Lodge to Louis Anthony DiSalvo. Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend- ment. Mr. Weltner (presiding). One moment. Is the substance of that question that Hunters Lodge in Virginia filled an order of rifles for Louis Anthony DiSalvo and these rifles subsequently were found in this witness' possession? Mr. Appell. That is right. Mr. Weltner. And Mr. DiSalvo appeared here as a witness 2 or 3 weeks ago and, I believe, was the party who was involved in a dis- cussion concerning the bombing of the Lady Bird Special; is that correct ? Mr. Appell. That is correct, sir. Mr. Weltner. Proceed. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have entered into the record at this point the listing of some 43 items, including the rifles, which were obtained in a search of Paul Wilson's residence and his automobile at the time of his arrest, these in addition to the rifles, pistols, billy clubs, unfinished table legs, ammunition, hypodermic syringe, and numerous items. I might point out, Mr. Chairman, for the record, that one item recovered was one deputy sheriff badge. The committee investigation has established that, time and time again, in the arrest of Klansmen and the seizing of either that which is on their possession or that which is in their home as a result of search warrant there is invariably recovered one toy tin deputy sheriff badge. Mr. Weltner. Will you show that list to the witness. Mr. Witness, will you examine that, please, and tell the committee whether or not that is an exact list of articles found in your possession ? Mr. PAUii Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend- ment. 3026 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Weltner. Without objection the list will be entered into the record at this point. (Document marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 4." The list follows:) Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 4 1. 1 rifle, make unknown, serial number Inverted "U"B7866, with clip, part number XT356.1 2. 1 rifle, make unknown, serial number KT841, with clip, part num- ber CB89.1 3. 1 rifle, make unknown, serial number 907 Inverted "N"C25 with initials SA imprinted over serial nvunber, with clip, part number BH260.2 4. 1 rifle, make unknown, serial number 799EK.5533, with clip, part number YE331.1 5. 1 black leatherette hood or cap 6. 1 black leatherette apron with green neck and belt straps 7. 4 identification cards of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, bearing the Confederate flag, the flag of the United States, outline of State of Mississippi enclosing "Miss. 700" with serial numbers 002, 025, 065, and 067. 8. 2 pieces of black leatherette material 9. 1 gavel 10. 1 pistol, automatic, Fabrique Nationale de Guerre Herstal Belgique, Browning's Patent Depose, serial number 193452 and also number 79002, .32 caliber with loaded clip number 193452 and loaded clip, no serial number 11. 2 boxes .32 caliber automatic .71 grain cartridges, 50 to a box Win- chester, noting there were 12 .32 calibers in one box and a .38 caliber unspent shell therein, with the second box full 12. 1 pair of goggles 13. 2 unfinished table legs 14. 1 Ideal Luerlock Syringe, 5 C.C., manufactured by Ideal Instrument and Manufacturing Company, Chicago 15. 1 Hypodermic Syringe, PerfeKium, manufactured by Pepper & Sons, Inc., New York 10 16. 1 black leather pistol holster 17. 1 brown leatherette holster fleece-lined, manufactured by Graver Brothers Manufacturing Co.,, St. Louis 18. 1 deputy sheriff tin badge 19. 1 pair cotton solid white gloves with partial black polka dots on in.side of hands 20. 1 pair brown cotton gloves 21. 1 pair used black gloves, lined with rabbit fur 22. 1 pair large black leather gloves, cloth lined 23. 1 Customer's Copy of check, McComb, Miss., dated June 2, 1964 on Mechanics State Bank No. 22660, pay to the order of Gov. George Wallace,$66.25 signed Paul D. Wilson, 811 New York Ave., McComb,
Miss.

24. 2 blank Appeals Bonds, State of Mississippi, Pike County

■:= * * * *

Mr. Appeijl. Mr. Wilson, Paul Wilson advised that, after he was
given a suspended sentence and fined, he obtained money from the
Reverend J. C. Brown.

Mr. Weltner, One moment, please. Which Wilson advised that?

Mr. ArrELL. Billy Earl Wilson.

Did you, Paul Wilson, receive any funds from the Reverend J, C.
Brown ?

Mr. Wilson. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Is it a fact that you pleaded guilty for the role that
you played in the illegal use of explosives and received a suspended
sentence ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3027

Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Did Mr. Eobert Shelton know you to be a member
of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Paul Wilsox. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Shelton gave an interview to Playboy magazine.
He was asked by the reporter, after an explanation :

Then how do you explain the case of Paul Dewey Wilson, who was arrested
last year in McComb, Mississippi, while wearing a deputy sheriff's badge and
hauling four rifles, a pistol, eight wooden clubs, a blackjack, brass knuckles
and a hypodermic syringe in his car — and carrying a membership card in the
United Klan signed by you?

Shelton : We don't have membership cards. The card he had was the card
I described — just a business card.

Was the statement that you made that you were issued a member-
ship card which you destroyed factual or was Mr. Shelton's statement
truthful that no membership cards are issued to members of the United
Klans of America?

Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

(Document marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 5'' and retained in
committee files.)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, staff has no further questions to ask
this witness.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Wilson, you have an opportunity at this point
to make any statement you desire that is relevant. There has been
substantial narration of the prior testimony of other persons con-
necting you with serious incidents and events.

You have the opportunity to qualify that or deny that as you see
fit. I might point out that this circumstance is somewhat different
than some of the prior testimony. On two occasions it appears from
our investigation to date that you as the exalted cyclops of a Klavem
of the United Klans of America distributed by the draw from a hat
assignments for acts of violence. In all fairness to you, we wish to
give you the opportunity to deny that or to explain that, as you see
fit. You have that opportunity at this point if you desire to offer
anything which the committee should consider.

Mr. Paul Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Weltner. Failing that, or failing other evidence to come before
the committee, the committee will of necessity rely upon the accuracy
of the investigation.

Do you have any questions?

Mr. Buchanan. No questions.

Mr. Weltner. Are there any further questions by the staff'? If not,
you are excused.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Appell. Jimmy Prinston Wilson.

Mr. Weltner. Will you raise your right hand, please?

Will you solemnly swear the testimony you give in this liearing will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so lielp
you God?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. I do.

3028 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

TESTIMONY OF JIMMY PRINSTON WILSON

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, will you state your full name for the
record ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Jimmy Prinston Wilson.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here in accordance with the sub-
pena served upon you on October 29, 1965, by John D. Sullivan, an
investigator of this committee?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Yes, sir,

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Wilson, I note you don't have counsel. Are you
aware of your right to have counsel during this hearing?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Do you desire to have counsel?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Are you aware of your rights under the Constitu-
tion to refuse to answer any questions which you feel might incrimi-
nate you under any State or Federal statute?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Are you aware that if you so desire at any time
during the course of this proceeding you may request counsel and this
committee will undertake to make arrangements to furnish counsel
to you? Do you wish to proceed without counsel at this point?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. You may proceed, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, the Washington Post and Times Herald
in an article dated October 6, 1964, story captioned, "7 More Held In
McComb Terrorism," identified that there have been arrested in a
series of arsons and bombings in the McComb area. Sterling L. Gillis,
who is popularly known as Bubba, Hilton Dunaway, "John" Paul
Westbrook, Charles Avery Womack, W-o-m-a-c-k, Gerald Lawrence,
Murphy J. Duncan, Paul Wilson, Billy Earl Wilson, Jimmy Wilson,
Ernest Zeeck, all of McComb, Mississippi.

Are you the Jimmy Wilson referred to in the article ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

(Document marked "Jimmy Wilson Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, on October 3, 1964, while in custody did
you make two statements to the sheriff of Pike County and to agents
of the Mississippi Highway Patrol and the Federal Bureau of In-
vestigation ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Appell. I read to you from the first statement which quotes
Jimmy Prinston Wilson as stating :

I joined the United Klans of America some time after the first of 1964 and
sometime in August 1964 several of us split off from Ray Smith's Klan and
organized a Klan of our own with Paul Wilson being appointed as E.C. and
Allen Lee as being appointed Treasurer.

Is that information correct?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. The statement continues that you were contacted on
Sunday, September 20, 1964, by Paul Wilson, and this is an exact
quote — "he told me he had a mission that he wanted me to go on."

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3029

I continue in the exact quote :

We were supposed to go fishing about 6:00 P.M. which we had planned. I
was at home that evening, and I decided to go on to the river myself earlier.
and I went on out to the river fishing, and Paul Wilson, Billy Wilson and
Ernest Zeeck came out roughly about 6:00 or 6:30 P.M. and we went out and
set out hooks and fished about 10:00 and all four of us drove into town in
Paul Wilson's car. I drove, Billy Wilson was in front with me and Paul
Wilson and Ernest Zeeck was in the back. The bomb was in the back seat be-
tween Paul Wilson and Ernest Zeeck.

We drove around the block where Alyene Quinn lives several times, which is
on the old Summit Road, and the lights were on, and we could see that there
wasn't anybody in the house aromid and on about the fourth round, I stopped the
car in front of Alyene Quinn's house. Paul Wilson lit the fuses and handed
it to Ernest Zeeck who opened the car door, got out and threw the bomb towards
the house. He got back in the ear, and we drove back to the river. We drove
north to Summit and back to the Bogue Chitto River Hoover Bridge. We fi.shed
awhile and took up the hooks and Billy Wilson and me came back in my station
wagon which is a 19.j5 Mercury, black and white, to my home. Paul Wilson and
Ernest Zeeck were behind us and Billy Wilson got out of my car and help me
unload some fishing gear, and I went in the house. He got in the car with them
and went on with them. It was midnight or after when I got home. I went
home, got undressed for bed, got in bed and went to sleep.

Is that a factual recitation of the statement that you made to the
agents that I have described to you ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. I hand you a list of acts of violence conducted in the
McComb, Mississippi, area in 1964 and in addition to Alyene Quinn,
which is shown on liere on September 20, 1964, I ask you if you en-
gaged in any acts listed on the sheet being handed you.

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

(Document previously marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 2." See
pp. 3023, 3024.)

Mr. Weltner. Specifically, Mr, Wilson, did you have any connec-
tion with the incident of September 20, 1964, in regard to the bombing
of the home of Alyene Quinn, McComb, Mississippi, previously testi-
fied to by Ernest Zeeck and by Billy Wilson ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Weltner. Proceed.

Mr. Appell. On the list that I showed you, Mr. Wilson, is listed the
date of July 18, 1964, attempted arson, "Sweet Home Church," Mc-
Comb, Mississippi. Were you involved in attempted arson on that
church ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights.

Mr, Appell, I read to you a second statement signed Jimmy P, Wil-
son, notarized by a sheriff, a representative of the Mississippi Highway
Safety Patrol, and agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Mr, Weltner, One moment. Is this purporting to be the statement
of this witness, Mr, Appell ?

Mr, Appell. It is, sir, signed by him and Avitncssed.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Wilson, is that your signature or facsimile there-
of, and did you sign the original of that statement?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Tlie pertinent portion of this statement reads as fol-
lows, Mr. AVilson, and the date is October 3, 1964 :

3030 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

About three or four months ago I was picked up at my home by Paul Wilson
and later we met a man named Duncan, first name unknown to me, who is
Manager of the Firestone Store at McComb, Mississippi. It had been planned
previously that we were to burn the Sweethome Missionary Baptist Church,
located on the Old Homesville Road in the Whitestown area near McComb,
Mississippi. The three of us traveled to this church by car late that night. I
believe we went in Paul Wilson's car but I cannot recall the description of this
car. Uiwn arriving to the Church we entered this church, which is a brick
building, through a side door, which w^as unlocked, and as I recall, all three of
us went into the church. We carried a tin, one gallon can filled with gasoline,
several feet of fuse, and a small metal jar lid containing black powder into the
church with us. We poured this gasoline onto the floor of the church at the
rear of the pulpit and placed the jar lid containing black powder in the gasoline.
We placed one end of the fuse in the powder and the other end of the fuse
through a doorway. I had previously heard that a fuse soaked in gasoline would
not burn so I intentionally soaked this fuse in such a way that it would go out
after it was lit and before it burned to the iwwder. Wilson and Duncan did not
know that I had soaked this fuse so that the powder would not ignite. Paul
Wilson then lit this fuse and the three of us then left the church by the same
door and got into the car and immediately drove away from that area. We did
not return to this church and Wilson and Duncan did not learn until the follow-
ing day that the church had not been burned. * * *

Is that statement given over your signature on October 8, 1964,
factual ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Did you deliberately soak the fuse in gasoline so that it
would not burn because to burn a church was revolting to you
personally ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr, Weltner. Mr. Wilson, here is an opportunity for you to testify
that you prevented the destruction of property of someone else. At this
point I would advise you that you are given the opportunity to offer to
this committee any matter that the committee determines to be relevant
to deny or confirm or to qualify any statement that is presented to you.

Here is an opportimity. Absent your testimony or other informa-
tion which properly comes before the committee, we will, of necessity,
have to rely on the accuracy of the investigation. Here's a statement
that appears to be a copy of a notarized statement by yourself showing
how you prevented the burning of a church. I would like to know
whether or not that is true.

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilson, isn't it a fact that you, like the others,
were convicted for these acts, received a suspended sentence, and did
you receive a fine in addition to the suspended sentence ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Billy Earl Wilson testified that money was received
on two different occasions from the Reverend J. C. Brown, whom he
identified to be the kludd of the Klavern of which Ray Smith was
the exalted cyclops. Did you receive any funds from the Reverend
J. C. Brown ?

Mr. Jimmy WiLsojf. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think that the record should note that
the planning of the arson of the Sweethome Church, McComb, Missis-
sippi, which was planned prior to July 18, 1964, was on a date prior

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3031

to the time that the group broke away from the original Klavern and
formed the new Klavern.

Mr. Weltner. That is when Ray Smith was exalted cyclops of all
flie members ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wilson, within the organizational structure of the United
Klans of America there is a klokann. As established by committee
investigation, it is the responsibility of the klokann committee to carry
out acts such as carried out in this instance. Were you and Paul Wil-
son and Murphy J. Duncan at the time of the attempted arson of the
Sweethome Church, members of a klokann committee '?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. Following your plea of guilty and conviction, was
your membership in the United Klans of America suspended ? Were
you sworn out or were you banished ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Weltner. Has any action of a disciplinary nature been taken
against you as a member of the Klan by the Klan for your involve-
ment in any acts of violence ?

Mr. Jimmy Wilson. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Weltner. Are there any questions?

Mr. Buchanan. No.

Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused.

Call the next witness, please.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Murphy John Duncan.

Mr. Weltner. Stand and raise your right hand, please.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the tiTitli, so help
you God ?

Mr. Duncan. I do.

Mr. Weltner. Be seated, please.

TESTIMONY OF MURPHY JOHN DUNCAN, JR.

Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record?

Mr. Duncan. Murphy J. Duncan.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Duncan, you are appearing here without coun-
sel. The committee would advise you that you have a right to coun-
sel at any time during the course of your testimony ; that if you are
unable to obtain counsel, we will undertake to make arrangements
for you to have counsel. You have the further right under the Con-
stitution not to answer any question if you feel that your answer to
that question might tend to incriminate you imder any law of the
United States or the State.

I ask you whether or not you desire counsel for this hearing ?

Mr. Duncan. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Do you understand your rights under the fifth amend-
ment ?

Mr. Duncan. Yes, sir.

3032 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Duncan, yon are appearing here today in accord-
ance with a subpena served upon you on October 29, 1965, at McComb,
Mississippi, by John D. Sullivan, an investigator of this committee?

Mr. Duncan. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appeijl,. Mr. Duncan, ^yhen and where were you born ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Duncan, did you hold the position of grand kla-
bee, or treasurer, of the Realm of Mississippi, United Klans of
America ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, Murphj^ John Duncan was born on
April 8, 1920, in McComb, Mississippi. He served in the United
States Army Air Force from February 1939 to February 1945. He
resides at Route 2, McComb, Mississippi.

Following a series of arsons and bombings in the McComb, Mis-
sissippi, area. Murphy John Duncan was arrested and on October 5,
1964, he gave permission to Inspector G-w-i-n Cole of the Mississippi
Highway Patrol to search his residence, which search produced the
following documents. It will be noticed that these documents estab-
lished him to be tlie grand klabee, or treasurer, of the United Klans
of America, Realm of Mississippi, as well as the official delegate to the
Imperial Klonvokation held in Alabama on September 5, 1964.

The documents recovered in this search are the following : A book
containing on the inside cover the name "E. L, McDaniel (Eddie),"
Grand Dragon, 2156 Second Street, P. O. Box 14, Natchez, Mississippi,
business phone 442-0267, home phone 445-5340 ; the name Harry A.
Sibley, 305 Jackson Street, McComb, Mississippi ; United Klans, 'Post
Office Box 303; Mississippi Rescue Service 706, which number, Mr.
Chairman, is believed might refer to a Klavern.

First page contains notation : "Mississippi Rescue Service dues,
#700 September $22.75." The pages are there numbered and show income, September 19, 1964, public speaking, Natchez,$21.32, which appears to be a pro rata share
of expense by Klaverns 713, 710, 715, 714 at $5.33. Dues 700,704, 710, 713, 715, 7l7, 719,$69.25.

September 22, 711 dues $7.50, public speaking Natchez 711,$5.33.

The pages continue to enumerate the receipt and expenditures of
funds and the rough notes include that there was paid on Septem-
ber 22, 1964, the amount of $17.46, E. L. McDaniel, Grand Dragon expense. There was included application for membership. United Klans of America, application for reinstatement [U.S. Klans, KKKK]. The official delegate card for September 5 and 6; position stated, grand klabee. State, Mississippi, national klonvokation, United Klans of America, UKA. Were these documents which were obtained in the search of your residence in accordance with the authority given by you to Inspector Gwin Cole, your documents ? Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment. Mr. Appell. On October'lO, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Duncan made the following admissions to agents of the sheriff's department, the Mississippi Highway Patrol, and Federal Bureau of Investigation, "Duncan advised he has been a member of the [UKA] Klavern ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3033 700 for about eight (8) months." He held the position in this Klavern as klabee or treasurer. He, like other members, was known in the Klavern by number rather than name and his number was 6, Because Klavern 700 was becoming too large, he stated, around August 1, 1964, Paul Wilson read a list of names during a meeting of Klavern No, 700 and announced that he and those names were forming a new Klavern. According to Duncan, Wilson read the names of Jon Paul West- brook, Wilson, whom he described merely as a very yomig boy — public testimony, Mr. Chairman, establishes him to be Billy Earl Wilson — Bubba Gillis, whose real name is Sterling Gillis, Hilton Dmiaway, Charles Womack, [Emery] Allen Lee, and himself. Murphy Dmican. He stated that this Klavern was formed and was known as a rifle club. He identified Paul Wilson as the exalted cyclops. He further stated that at about the time the new Klavern was formed he was elected State treasurer and maintained an account in the name of the Mississippi Rescue Service at the Mechanics State Bank, Mc- Comb, Mississippi. Through subpena duces tecum, Mr, Chairman, we have subpenaed the records maintained and this has been verified. With respect to jobs of violence carried out by members of the Klavern, Duncan stated that he attended a Klavern meeting at which names were drawn from a hat with Paul Wilson stating, "Come, boys, draw your job." With respect to his attendance at the Imperial Klonvokation, com- mittee investigation establishes that Duncan and Ernest Zeeck flew to Birmingham in a chartered aircraft, paid for by Ed Wilkins in the amount of$96. Billy Earl Wilson identified Wilkins as a person
Duncan recruited into the Klavern which met at Bubba Gillis' up-
holstery shop in McComb, Mississippi,

Mr, Duncan, do you care to make any statements w^ith respect to the
results of the committee's investigation as read to you?

Mr, Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Duncan, the Chair wishes to advise you that
you have the right at this point to offer any matter that the committee
w411 deem relevant, to explain or deny any part of this information;
that absent that or other facts which may come to the attention of this
committee, the committee will rely upon the accuracy of its inves-
tigation.

Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity?

Mr, Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment,

(At this point Mr. Pool returned to the hearing room.)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Duncan, is it a fact that you received a suspended
sentence, as did the others; that, because you miscalculated as to the
date when your period of probation expired, you called up and threat-
ened agents of the FBI; and that your probation was revoked and
you were sentenced to serve 6 months?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke the fifth amendment.

Mr, Weltner, Let us go through that again, will you, please, Mr.
Appell? State the findings of the investigation with regard to any
such matter, and then we will pose that to the witness,

Mr, Appell, Prior to the expiration of the probation, that Murphy
J. Duncan by use of the telephone threatened an agent and an agent's
wife in the McComb area, as a result of which the probation wa'^i
revoked and he was sentenced to 6 months in the local jail.

3034 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Duncan, is that factual, that your probation
was revoked and that you were thereupon sentenced to serve 6 months
in the penitentiai-y ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Duncan, with respect to the documents recovered
from your home, one Post Office Box 14, Natchez, Mississippi, the
other Post Office Box 706, McComb, Mississippi, I hand you the one
covering Post Office Box 14, Natchez, which shows the applicant to be
Ernest Finley. I ask you if you knew him to be a member of the
United Klans of America.

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Post Office Box 706, McComb, in the name of the
Mississippi Rescue Service, which states under "kind of business,-'
that it is "civil defense radio service.''

Will you explain to the committee what type of civil defense radio
service the Mississippi Rescue Service was involved in ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment, sir.

(Documents marked "Murphy Duncan Exhibit No. 1" follow:)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3035

Murphy Duncan Exhibit No. 1

i DATE eC'H OPtNfD

• 3'- A/h-ir-L

FOR

POST Of FICf

US£ ONLY

HUCHEZ, HISS

/<?-/z-6?

3-Z-7-^

APPLICANT PLiLA^t

<iOTE: r^m
rulm

p/»fir,o o/ »ft.« apphi-mtton „g

M o'Vo."-'cT'/fic'«''*rr^ '"

,-or

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NAMt Of APPLICAN: (^'rin

or type)

^/^A/C > /'

yC 4^^

e

>"

NAMt Of MRM OR CC«PORATION (// box

!• /•nrec/ /or us* 0/ eithmr)

J. /iA/^. f)

S ^ /^/^>C v^

•USINESS ADDRESS (Nu . a

/CJ

trmmt, and i

one)

2Ji._£jLiii

SIGHA'LPl (.^ AKPLICANI

Xq^a^-^ / /^^^^ L-^

DA re Of /rpucA'iot^

"Box 706, ffegonil), Mssiasippi

or FMM oil OOOfCMATIIjM Cn^Hn <■ Tft*^for tmf^^tbt)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Duncan, did you advise Billy Earl Wilson with
respect to Ed Wilkins, who he identified you recruited into the
Klavern that met at Bubba Gillis' upholstery shop, that Wilkins
worked for an oil company and used explosives and knew where to
get them?

3036 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did Ed Wilkins ever obtain for your group any of the
explosives or dynamite which was used for any of the bombings in the
McComb, Mississippi, area ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Would you know Howard M. Lee, a Klansman in
Bogalusa, Louisiana ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Pool (presiding). I can't hear you, speak up a little louder.
Do you invoke the fifth amendment ?

Mr. Duncan. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Howard M. Lee was arrested by agents of the Alco-
holic Tax Unit of the Treasury Department, which agency has the
responsibility of enforcing the regulations relating to the sale of guns
and ammunition. The records maintained by Howard Lee reflect on
September 20, 1964, he sold a rifle to Murphy Duncan, although the
address here is listed as Denham Springs. I ask you to examine this
document and to advise the committee whether you purchased a rifle
from Howard M. Lee.

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

(Excerpt from Howard Lee's records marked "Murphy Duncan
Exhibit No. 2" follows:)

Murphy Duncan Exhibit No. 2

^^J-. >c>-L^

Mr. Pool. You said what ?

Mr. Appell. He invokes his rights under the fifth amendment.

Billy Earl Wilson testified that he received sums of money from
the Reverend J. C. Brown following his conviction. Did you likewise
receive money from the Reverend J. C. Brown and, if so, wiiat
amounts ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. The account in the name of the Mississippi Rescue
Service, Mechanics State Bank, McComb, Mississippi, contains as the
authorized signature, John K. Duncan. I put it to you as a fact, and
ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that in opening tliis account you
used the name John K. Duncan.

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

(Document marked "Murphy Duncan Exhibit No. 3" follows:)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3037

Murphy Duncan Exhibit No. 3

NAME Missiasippi Rescue Servic*

•^O^K^.ftWW^«-*?faiW5^^McCOMB MISS

P, 0^ Bqi 7Q6_ — __ NoiviDUAL

MCCHANta^M^krm.^aAmKai|^OMB miss ii hcrcbv selected a« a ocpos-.-^- and auth.
oaizcD TO wW«nnWt>y<^^ <lw l^BWE» executed ■■low im payment of fjnd* on dekosit or

IN THE TXANIACTION Of OTHER BUOlNitS WITH THE UNOERllONED SUBJECT TO THE TCMMB AND
CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACT ON THE REVERSE SIDE MERI -)F

QMn/T-^--:-

>^gt>

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
this witness.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Weltner.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Duncan, have you discussed your appearance
here today with Mr. Robert M. Shelton, the Imperial Wizard of the
United Klans?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Weltner. Do you know Mr. Shelton ?

Mr. Duncan. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

(At this point Mr. Buchanan left the hearing room.)

Mr. Weltner. No further questions.

Mr. Pool. Do you have anything else, Mr. Appell ?

Mr. Appell. No further questions.

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused permanently.

Mr. Appell. Emery Allen Lee.

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Lee. I do.

TESTIMONY OF EMERY ALLEN LEE

Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, Mr. Lee?

Mr. Lee. Emery Allen Lee.

Mr. Appell. You are appearing here today in accordance with a
subpena served upon you at 1110 Avenue L, McComb, Mississippi, on
October 29, 1965, by John D. Sullivan, investigator of this committee ?

Mr. Lee. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. I note that you are not represented by counsel. Do you
desire counsel?

Mr. Lee. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Have you received legal advice as to the rights which
you have to invoke constitutional privileges, the fifth amendment, in
respect to all questions which might tend to incriminate you ?

3038 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Lee. I invoke my rights on the fifth amendment.

Mr. Weltner. Do you miderstand your right under the Constitution
to refuse to answer any questions on the ground that it may tend to
incriminate you ?

Mr. Lee. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Weltner. Do you desire coimsel to represent you ?

Mr. Lee. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. You do not desire counsel ?

Mr. Lee. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Do you understand that you might have comisel at
any time during the course of this hearing if you make that desire
known to the committee ?

Mr. Lee. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. I am not trying to trip you up with a question, but
this committee wishes to advise you that you have the right at any time
in response to any questions to refuse to answer on the gromids that the
answer may tend to incriminate you under any State or Federal statute.
I am simply asking you whether or not you understand you have that
right.

Mr. Lee. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. You do understand that?

Mr. Lee. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Lee?

Mr, Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the investigation reflects that Emery
Allen Lee was born on October 6, 1928, at Hammond, Louisiana. He
completed 7 years of grammar school. He enlisted in the regular army
on August 2, 1946, and was discharged for reasons of dependency on
February 25, 1947.

He is self-employed as a painter. He resides at 1110 Avenue L, Mc-
Comb, Mississippi.

Mr. Lee, Billy Earl Wilson in testifying before this committee under
oath on January 18, 1966, identified you as a person whom he knew to
be a member of the United Klans of America. Was Mr. Billy Earl
Wilson telling the truth when he so testified under oath ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under tlie fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Jimmy Prinston Wilson, Murphy J. Duncan, in state-
ments given to the agents of the Mississippi State Highway Patrol,
sheriff's department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, iden-
tified you to be a person they knew to be a member of the United Klans
of America. Were the statements tliat they gave truthful ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. I hand you a list of acts of violence which took place
in McComb, Mississippi, area in 1964. I ask you if you committed
any of the acts individually or in partnership with others and I invite
your attention specificallv to the date of September 20, 1964, and the
bombing of the Society Hill Missionary Church, McComb, Mississippi.

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

(Document previously marked "Paul Wilson Exhibit No. 2." See
pp. 3023, 3024.)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3039

Mr. Appell. Mr. Lee, I hand you a series of photographs. These
photographs were made by the Mississippi Highway Patrol on the 3cl
day of October 1964. I ask you to hokl them as I read them to you.

Report of the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol reflects that there
was found in two sacks at the rear of the residence of Emery Allen
Lee contents described as homemade bombs and a can of black powder
with 65 feet of fuse. These items are described as lengths of gal-
vanized pipe capped at both ends with a quarter inch hole drilled in
them, filled with black powder, fused with the fuse bonded.

Mr. Lee, did you manufacture those homemade bombs?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

(Photographs marked "Emery Lee Exhibit No. 1." For one of said
photographs, see committee report. The Present-Day Ku Klux Klan
Movement, p. 108; balance retained in committee files.)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Lee, Billy Earl Wilson stated that when they were
preparing to bomb the residence of Alyene Quinn that they stopped
by your house and from a sort of corner cabinet there was obtained
by you from a false bottom in that cabinet the dynamite which they
used. Was Billy Earl Wilson's testimony truthful ?

Mr. Lee, Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. While stationed at Aberdeen Proving Ground as a
member of the United States Army did you receive instruction in
detonation ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Lee, did you and Bubba Gillis bomb the Society
Hill Missionary Church, McComb, Mississippi, on the night of Sep-
tember 20, 1964?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. At a meeting of the Klavern which met at Bubba
Gillis' upholstery shop, wdiere a hat was placed on the table, did you
draw a slip of paper which contained the name of the Society Hill
Missionary Church ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Are you acquainted with Curtis O'Neil Doles, a Klans-
man with the Bessemer, Alabama, Klavern ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Lee, can you advise the committee as to the purpose
w^iich you and other members of the United Klans in the State of
Mississippi hope to accomplish through the acts of arson and bombings
which you men carried out in that State ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Where did you obtain the powder that was in that
can?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to

Mr. Weltner. Do you know Robert M. Shelton ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Weltner. Have you discussed your appearance here today with
Robert M. Shelton?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Weltner. Have you discussed your appearance wnth any per-
son known to you to be a member of the Taiited Klans of America ?

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 10

3040 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Weltner. No further questions.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I have one that I overlooked which is
veiy important.

Mr. Lee, on November 12, 1964, did you write the following letter
to a Miss or Mrs. Joyce L-a-d-n-e-r, and I Avill quote the contents of
the letter to you:

I read your article in the Jackson Daily News about the McCoiub Bombers.
It makes a man feel good to know that someone in these United States outside
of good old Mississippi will go to bat for them. My name is Emery Allen Lee.
I am the one who is the Demolision [sic] Expert who made all the bombs and
told the others where to go with them. I am proud of my part. They have
accused me of and am sorry that one man had to spill his guts and tell every-
thing he knew about me and my property but he has to live with it the rest of
hi.q life. I would have trusted him with my life. It just goes to show that a
man doesn't know who he can trust any more. I am branded an exbomber of
Pike Co. but I will hold my head up even higher than ever and spit in the eye
of any one who tries to ever integrate me and will fight it one way or another
till I die and will lay down my life tomorrow for what I believe. I am a Rebel
and I am proud to be one and from your article in the paper in my book you
rate first class. And I would be prowd [sic] to call you a true friend because it
took lots of guts to put that in the paper nowadays. Speaking of faith it is going
to take a lot of Faith and men and women like yourself to stand together and
fight for the things we hold so dear. We have a police State here now and a
white man gets treated like an animal if he doesn't go along with COFO and
NAACP so just call me an animal. I was handcuffed so long and so tight with
my hands behind my back that when they finally took them off I could lay my
thumb and finger in the groove of my wrist and all but hide them. It took almost
three weeks for the feeling to come back to my right hand. Well, I didn't intend
to talk so much. I really wanted to thank you for your lift in the paper. It
meant a lot to me and any of the others who might have read it.

Sincerely

Signed "Al Lee."

Mr. Lee. Sir, I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

(Document marked "Emery Lee Exhibit No. 2-A" and retained in
committee files.)

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, do you have a date on that ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. That was dated November 12, 1964.

Mr, Pool. Did he sign the letter?

Mr. Appell. The letter was handwritten. It was signed "Al Lee"
and it has been — I might preface what I am going to answer you
with, Mr. Lee misinterpreted what the letter of Miss Ladner was
intended to convey when he wrote her this letter. Upon receipt of
it she forwarded it to the Attorney General of the United States,
who had a handwriting analysis made which confirmed it to be writ-
ten by the witness Emery Allen Lee.

Mr. Pool. And signed by the witness?

Mr. Appell. And signed by the witness.

Mr. Weltner. Just a minute. What was the letter that Miss Ladner
wrote ? I find it incredible to believe that this letter was signed and
dispatched under those circumstances. Will you give us some more
background? Wliat was the nature of Miss Ladner's letter?

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, we made a search, but because of the
amount of time we would have to consume to research the paper we
did not obtain it.

Mr. Pool. You don't have Miss Ladner's letter?

Mr. Appell. No,' sir, we are still in search of it. It will be made
part of the record.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3041

(Miss Ladner's letter marked "Emei*y Lee Exhibit No. 2-B"
follows:)

Emery Lee Exhibit No. 2-B

[Jackson (Miss.) Daily News, October 30, 1964]

Courage And Hats off to the fine Southern

Infa^riK/ ^U«w«? gentlemanly judge who gave

,V'l!®9'^'O^J>nO^"- them all suspended sentences

Editor, Daily News -- I re-
,c«itly learned that my Mc-
Comb, Mississippi, brethren |
pleaded guilty to the bombings
ttf the colored folks homes and
churches. I must say that this
^ust have taken a great
amount of courage and in-
tegrity.

because of the faith he had in
their upbringing, as evidenced
by the Christian deed they did.
This is but another fine ex-
ample ol the courageous acts
that can only be carried out
by a true Southern gentleman.

8793 Kingsbury Place

St. Louis 12, Mo.

Mr. Weltner. This was a letter published in a newspaper?

Mr. Appell. In the editor's column.

Mr. Weltner. Is it your statement that the witness misinterpreted
the letter as sympathetic to the bombing?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And in response to what he interpreted to be an ex-
pression of sympathy he sent to the author of the newspaper letter,
this letter?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. You have also stated now that that was forwarded
to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and that a handwriting
analysis was made of it ; that the result of that analysis is that it was
written by this witness.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell, I wish to ask this: Did he answer the
question?

Mr. Appell. He invoked the constitutional privilege before I even
asked him whether or not he was the author.

Mr. Pool. In view of this letter and the fact that the handwriting
has been identified, I will say that I think it needs explanation on his
part or the committee will have to accept it in the tone in which
it was sent and the philosophy behind it in this man's mind, which
is not a very admirable philosophy and the general public resents that
type of attitude by those people.

I can't think of anything incriminating in this letter. I would
straighten it out if I were on the witness stand.

Mr. Appell. I would like to ask the witness as to whether or not
the statement about the condition of his wrist after being handcuifed.
or put it to him as a fact that that statement is false?

Mr. Lee. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions to ask the witness.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Senner, as a member of the full committee, would
you care to ask any questions ?

3042 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Sentster. I have no (questions, thank you.

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman, I have an observation which I should
like to make a part of the record.

A witness before this committee has a right to counsel and he has
a right not to have counsel, too. Now the witnesses who have been
subpenaed here who are implicated in the McComb bombings each
appeared without counsel. And each, after bein^ queried as to
whether they desired counsel, stated they did not wish comisel.

Now that occurred to me to be a rather unusual circumstance inas-
much as just about every otlier witness who has appeared and has taken
the fifth amendment consistently has appeared with counsel.

It occurs to me that there is a logical explanation for that. The
interview that was printed in Playhoy magazine with Mr. Kobert
Shelton disclosed Mr. Shelton's statements to the effect that the United
Klans did not permit violence and was opposed to violence and it also
contained the question, "Then how do you explain the case of Paul
Dewey Wilson, who was arrested last year in McComb, Mississippi,
while wearing a deputy sheriff's badge" et cetera?

The answer to that by Mr. Shelton was : "We don't have member-
ship cards. The card he had was the card I described — just a busi-
ness card."

Now if these witnesses appeared with counsel furnished them by
the United Klans of America, there would be a serious doubt cast on
the statement made by the Imperial Wizard that anyone convicted
of an act of violence would be summarily discharged from the United
Klans of America. Hence their appearance without counsel is under-
standable in that light.

Now as I say, Mr. Chairman, a man has a right to counsel and a
man has a right to appear without counsel and from the appearance
of these five or six witnesses I will have to say that their rights were
protected by their own refusals in the claim of the fifth amendment.
Possibly this Playboy interview and the statements by the Imperial
Wizard are the explanation for the rather unusual nature of these
appearances.

Mr. Pool. Call your next witness.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call L. C. Murray.

Mr. Pool. Raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?

Mr. Murray. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OP L. C. MURRAY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr Appell. State your full name for the record.

Mr. Murray. L. C. Murray.

Mr. Appell. Wliat do the initials "L." and "C." stand for?

Mr. Murray. Initials only.

Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with sub-
pena served upon you on November 22, 1965, at 114 Main Street,
Natchez, Mississippi ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3043

Mr. Murray. I am.

Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Murray ?

Mr. Murray. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as granted to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Murray. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?

iMr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, attorney at law, 501 First
Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, is it your understanding that the wit-
ness has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement
of October 19, 1965, and that he is familiar with the contents?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; it is so stipulated, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Murray, I hand you a rather poor reproduction of
a signature card on the Britton & Koontz [National] Bank, Natchez,
Mississippi, which shows the signature of Edward McDaniel, Grand
Dragon ; John Dawson ; and L. C. Murray, field — abbreviation for sec-
retary. I ask you if you are the L. C. Murray — I put it to you as a fact,
and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you are the L. C. Mur-
ray listed as field secretary.

Mr. Murray. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

(Document previously marked "Jolin Dawson Exhibit No. 1." See
p. 2984.)

Mr. Appell. I hand you two checks, one dated September 24, 1965,
the other October 8, 1965, and put it to you as a fact that they estab-
lish you as a paid employee of the United Klans of America, Realm
of Mississippi.

Mr. Murray. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I hand you two checks, one dated October 2, 1965,
payee cash, amount $2,766, endorsers John Dawson and L. C. Murray, and check dated October 15, 1965, payable to cash, in the amount of$2,000, endorser Edward L. McDaniel.

After you examine them I will ask you for what purpose did you
endorse the check for $2,766. The second check I ask you for what purpose did you make a check for Edward L. McDaniel in the amount of$2,000?

Mr. Murray. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Checks previously marked "John Dawson Exhibit No. 4." See
pp. 2988-2991.)

Mr. Appell. Mr. Murray, I put it to you as a fact that your formal
title within the United Klans of America, Realm of Mississippi, is
that of field secretary to the Grand Dragon and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact.

Mr. Murray. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

3044 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, as to whether or not the following individuals are the exalted
Cyclops of the follow^ing Klaverns :

,700, Ray Smith, McComb; 701, J. M. Foster, Brookhaven ; 702, C. J.
Seal, Pearl River County ; 704, John Brumfield, McComb, Mississippi ;
711, H. H. Mathews, McComb, Mississippi,

Incidentally, Mr. Chairman, this is the Klavem in which Mr.
Emmett Thornhill held membership.

712, Hewitt Wilkinson, Pricedale, Mississippi; 713, George Wm-
borne, Bogue Chitto; 715, J. R. Morgan, Brookhaven; 716, Harold
Casey, Goodman, Mississippi ; 718, J. W. Reeves, Bogue Chitto, Mis-
sissippi; 719, Paul Foster, Natchez, Mississippi; 726, Bill Sullivan,
Jackson, Mississippi; 727, T. M. Jackson, Yazoo City, Mississippi;
728, M. E. Bell, Mathiston, Mississippi; 729, W. H. Aswalt, Louis-
ville, Mississippi; 730, James R. Simpson, Starkville; 732, Jerry M.
Graham, Oxford; 735, L. C. Bracken, luka; 736, Houston Evans,
kleagle for Greenville; 737, Glen Owen, the temporary EC, Columbus,
Mississippi ; Harry Oippens, the EC in the Wayne County unit.

I put it to you as a fact that they are, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact.

Mr. Murray. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr, Appell. Mr. Murray, as the field secretary of the United Klans,
Mississippi, have you conducted any investigation which has resulted
in the suspension or banishment from the United Klans of America of
any member who has engaged in an act of intimidation or violence
against a citizen of Mississippi ?

Mr. Murray. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated,

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions to ask this witness, Mr.
Chairman.

Mr, Pool. Mr. Weltner.

Mr. Weltner. I have no questions.

Mr, Pool. The witness is excused permanently.

Mr. Appell. Edward Lenox McDaniel.

Mr. Pool. Will you raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. McDaniel. I do.

TESTIMONY OF EDWARD LENOX McDANIEL, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr, Appell, State your full name for the record, Mr. McDaniel.

Mr. McDaniel. Edward L, McDaniel,

Mr, Appell, Middle name Lenox ?

Mr, McDaniel, Right.

Mr. Appell. You are appearing here today in accordance with sub-
pena served upon you on October 30, 1965, at 114 Main Street, Natchez,
Mississippi, by John D. Sullivan, an investigator of this committee?

Mr. McDaniel. I am.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. McDaniel. lam.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3045

Mr, Appell. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?

(Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, attorney at law, 501 First Fed-
eral Buildino:, Kalei^^h.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, is it so stipulated that the witness has
been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement on Oc-
tober 19, 1965, and is familiar with its contents?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. McDaniel, under the terms of the subpena served
upon you and attachment thereto which is made a part of the sub-
pena, you are commanded to bring with you and to produce before the
committee documents set forth in paragraph 1 :

All books, i-ecords, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and aflSliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, the White Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi, The Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in
your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you
as Grand Dragon of the Mississippi Realm of the Invisible Empire, United
Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United
Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, also as a member of the
White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and as a member of the
Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

I ask you to produce the documents called for in paragraph 1.

Mr. McDaxiel. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena
dated October 6, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 6, 1965,
since that information is not relevant or germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the considera-
tion of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January
4, 1965.

Mr. Appell. Mr. McDaniel, paragraph 2 called for you to produce:

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as Grand Dragon of the Mississippi Realm of the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. which the "Constitution and Laws" of said orga-
nization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other oflScer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.

Mr. McDaniel. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore requested upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce those documents called for in part 2.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. McDaniel, the committee does not accept your
reasons for refusing to produce these documents.

Accordingly, the chairman of the subcommittee directs you to do so.

(At this point Mr. Buchanan returned to the hearing room.)

3046 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE tJ.S.

Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the com-
mittee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based on the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, may we have a stipulation that these
documents called for are in the custody of this witness?

Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena, Mr. Chairman ; yes.

Mr. Weltner. Thank you.

Mr. Appell. Mr. McDaniel, when and where were you bom?

Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
for the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. McDaniel, were you banished by Imperial Dragon
Roy V. Young from the Original Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
Realm of Mississippi ?

Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated,

Mr. Appell. And former Imperial Dragon Young testified under
oath that you were banished because you were guilty of slandering
and threatening the head or leaders of his Klan and also committing
treason by exciting and recommending of revolt against the principles
of the old original rules and regulations. Is his testimony truthful ?

Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege, consisting of refusal to answer my questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
McDaniel.

Edward Lenox McDaniel was born on December 12, 1934, at
Natchez, Mississippi. He has a 10th grade education. He has been
employed by Jolins-Manville, Natchez, Mississippi, 1953 to 1955; by
General Motors in California from September 1955 to January 1957;
by Los Angeles Transit Lines from Februaiy 1957 to July 1957; by
Jolins-Manville again from July 30, 1957, to October 12, 1959; by
Acme Steel Company in California in 1960 to 1962 ; by the Red Ball
Motor Freight Company, Natchez, Mississippi, 1962 until he began
devoting full time to the United Klans of America, Realm of Missis-
sippi.

McDaniel, while in California, filed a petition of bankruptcy on
October 28, 1961, at Lynwood, California, listing debts of $4,522.36 and assets of$200. On March 7, 1962, he was discharged as bankrupt.

McDaniel's employment with Johns-Manville was terminated in
1959 under the technical charge of abuse of plant rules and regulations.
Investigation established that his dismissal resulted from his illegally
opening a milk vending machine and removing therefrom the coin
content.

E. L. McDaniel was banished from the Original Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan in December 1963 by Roy V. Youn^, Imperial Dragon.
He was thereafter the leader of the Original Knights which formed
the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Mississippi and was elected
to the position of province KBI.

While holding an office within the White Knights, he joined the

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

3047

United Klans of America, where after he received the appointment of
Grand Dragon, to wliich office lie was hxter elected.

In September 1964, a series of bombings was carried out in Adams
County, Mississippi. These bombings resulted from actions taken
within a UKA Klavern in McComb, Mississippi. One of the Klans-
men involved was a State officer of the United Klans of America, Mur-
phy J. Duncan, who held the position of grand klabee, or treasurer.
In spite of this, the September 28, 196-4, issue of the Natchez Democrat
carried a statement over the signature of Grand Dragon McDaniel
addressed to the citizens of Adams County and read in part as follows :

I would like to take this opportunity to inform the citizens of Adams County
and all parties concerned that the United Klan of America does not condone
nor advocate the bombings which took place last night, nor any of the previous
acts which have created strife and turmoil in our city although the Klan has
been accused of them. The Klan has nothing to gain by such acts.

(Document marked "Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 1" follows:)

Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 1

{Natchez (Miss.) Democrat, September 28, 1964]

Klan Denies
Any Part In
Bombings

E. L. McDaniel. Grand Drag-
on me uimeu ivian of America,
Realm oi Mississippi., yester-
day issued a signed statement
in which he denied that the
Klan ill Aciams County atid Nat-
chez; have had any part in
bombings or other acts which
have created slriie and turmoil
in Natchez.

He stated further that "The
United Kl.iii of AineriC) dr)rs iirit
condone nor arivocatr <he bomb-
iiig.s which took })' '^

daj- night, nor aii%

JfiU:^ ;.i t? 'Ahit il

strife and turmoil in Oiir city."
The complete statement of Mr.
McDaniel is as follows;

September 26, 1964
To the Citizens of .\dams
County:

I would like to take this op-
portunity to inform tlie citizens
of Adams County and all part-
ies conccrnied that the United
Klan of America does not con-
done nor advocate the bombings
which took place la.st night' nor
any of the previous acts which
have created strife and turmoil
in our city, although the Klan
has been accused of them. Ttie
Klan hri< nnthmg lo gain by

l)rag(jn,

Mr. Appell. Following arrest by the Mississippi Highway Safety
Patrol of the UKA Klansmen, the Natchez Klavem, which had be^n
incorporated under the Adams County Civic & Betterment Associa-
tion, passed a resolution deploring what the resolution described as
"unlawful arrest and search by the State Highway Patrol," and an-
nounced the launching of a campaign to raise funds. ( See Paul Foster
Exhibit No. 3, pp. 2999, 3000.)

The president of the Klavern front organization was Paul Foster,
the first chaplain of the White Knights, then the exalted cyclops of
the Klavern, and now Grand Klaliff of the United Klans of America,
Realm office.

3048 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

McDaniel in January 1965 criticized other State units of the United
Klans of America for not sending financial support to defend Klans-
men arrested in Mississippi. He said only $300 had been sent to Mississippi from other States and$162 from the imperial office.
McDaniel stated that about $3,000 had been collected for the defense of some 40 Klansmen arrested in Mississippi. In spite of this, he issued a statement which appeared in the CJarlon-Ledger, Jackson, Mississippi, April 1, 1965, in which after welcoming the investigation by the Committee on Un-American Activities he was quoted as saying, "I have always advocated nonviolence and will continue to do so." (Document marked "Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 2" follows:) Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 2 Jackson, Miss., Clarion-Ledger , April 1, 1965] Grand Draeon "" '"^^ v\\xsid% existed, i c5 would know about them." To Welcome \.^^''^%\ "^^ ^^"'? '^'l^ I that the Klan was not in the Investigation l^^t tradition of Americanisin. c9 "I would hope that Mr. Willu NATCHEZ (fl — The Grand [ has not formed an opinion be- Dragon of the Mis.sissip^i ' fore investigation of the truth. Realm of the United Klans of i "I hope that at the conclu- America said here he "wel- j sion of the investigation, the corned an investigation of the I Klan can continue to hold his KKK." i committee in high esteem as a E. L. McDaniel of Natchez ' great committee for Ameri- made the conmient after Rep. I canism." Edwon Willis, D - La., chair- McDaniel said he urged all man of the house UnAmerican \ Mississippians to ignore the ag- Activities committee announc- ! itatorg who are plaguing the ed his group would look intc state. He called for calm, activities of the Klan. the : "I have always advocated Black Muslims and others. I McDaniel said he had no knowledge of tfie so - eaiiea f'squads" that WiUia talked about In announcing Hm probe. nonviolence and will continue to do so." McDaniel heads an organiza- tion which has an estimated membership of 400. In May 1965, an election of State officers was held at the Eola Hotel, Natchez, Mississippi, under the cover name of Mississippi Kescue Service. A caucus of imperial officers and Grand Dragons from many realms was also held. Mississippi officers elected were E. L. McDaniel, Grand Dragon; P. L. Foster, Grand KlalifF; Charles Dickson, klokard ; W. W. Gwinn, G-w-i-n-n, grand kludd; Charles Stewart, grand kligrapp; John Dawson, grand klabee; F. B. Brown, grand kladd; B. W. Waldrup, outer guard; Henry Neese, inner guard, and Myron Wayne "Jack" Seale, grand night-hawk. Henry Neese was replaced by Doyle Murray and L. C. Murray was appointed to the position of field secretary to the Grand Dragon. Appointed to the offices of great titan were Dexter Lamar Torrance, of Meridian, and Charles James Seal of Crossroads, Mississippi. On July 10, 1965, a public rally was held at S-u-q-u-o-l-e-n-a Race Track near Meridian. McDaniel introduced the Neshoba County ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3049 Sheriff Lawrence Rainey, who had been arrested following the murder of the three civil rights workers in Philadelphia. On July 22, 1965, Sheriff Rainey w\as again introduced by McDaniel, this time at a public rally near Greenville, Mississippi. Imperial Wizard Shelton shared the platform w^ith Sheriff Rainey on this meeting and the one on July 10. This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. McDaniel pos- sesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting reme- dial legislation. Mr. Wfxtner. Mr. McDaniel, you have heard the statement of the committee's investigator. I give you an opportunity to reply to that statement, to confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information,_or explain part of it. You may offer, if you desire, any additional in- formation you deem relevant. Do you have any matter you wish to present to the committee at this time ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based on the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. I am advising, Mr. McDaniel, absent your rebuttal or absent any information which may come to this committee we will have to rely on the accuracy of this investigation. Mr. Appell. Mr. McDaniel, I hold in my hand a bulletin to units of the United Klans of America, Inc., Post Office Box 10753, Atlanta, Georgia, dated October 13, 1964, addressed "Esteemed Klanspeople." In part, it reads : Due to the arrest of several white Mississippians who have been charged in connection with the recent bombings in McComb, Miss. The Grand Dragon of Miss, advises me that it is necessary to go to the assistance of these men who have been implicated by the press that they are Klansmen. However, the only thing they had concerning the Klan was a complimentary card of some sort. As you know we do not condone nor advocate such acts of violence, but we believe these men are victims of circumstances. Miss, needs your help send your donations to E. L. McDaniel G.D. Miss. P.O. BOX 1341, NATCHEZ, MISS. This was sent out by the Grand Dragon, Calvin F. Craig, of Georgia. Mr. McDaniel, did you advise the Grand Dragon that these men, who by their own statements and by sworn testimony are members of the United Klans of America, that they were not members of the United Klans of America ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based on the grounds previously stated. (Document marked "Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 3" follows:) 3050 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 3 Bulletin to Units of United Klans of Americ a. Inc. asking for funds. UNITED KLANS OF A^ERICA INC . P.O.BOX l'^753 ATLiNU.GA. CCT.13,196U Esteemed KLanspeople; Less than one mcnth new remains belpore the general election Novenber 3. The American people by the millions will- go to the polls and cast th elr vote for the onb they think will be be best f cr ^ur beloved country. It is a must that you a merrfber of the KLan and as a Patrcric American enc:;urge voters to exeeodsa their right and go to the polls and V^TE. I ask each and every member to work and support their choice for president-be it JOHNSCN or GTUJ'J'ATER,.... .. ■'■- ■ -"-- CtllT'tlf^' campaign office of your cairiditate and ^,ffer your ^ needed help or either you 'ftaii set bfeck and oomplain for the next four years,,,,. 1965 CEORGIA STATE KI/NVOKATION WLL BE HEID AT SAtfANNAH.GETRGIA IN THE fTNTH OF JUir, DATE WILL BE RELEASED AT A L«TER TIME, Savanhah Kl^n ^ k\ will be the H^ei «o nor WB hare 8.months to plan the savannah trip I feel sure many will take thi eir vacation at this time. We will have another State KLonvokation this year 196*1 which will bring us t^ to date. Time and place will be put in the next news letter. Their will be « nuifcer rf positions up for relection on the State Board, BOVHCtS 21 Saturday* TURRET SHCGT at Sam Pooles Place on Hway# 81, 6 miles north of Corington.Ofl, Benefit Covington #38 Klavern. COT, 29, PPM Old 66 N'side Dr.and Marietta St.Atlanta will have a naturllzn- tlon all units are invited to bring their canditates and members (^EN OIILY) E.C, Cleaper says Donuts and Q-ffee will be served also he says tL bring y^ur robes. The F.B.I, cnntinuee to haresa the man in Athens, Ga, they are in still need ..f finiaiioaful help. I would like for any unit that haves any problems that they cannot handle them selves to write and let the State Beard try t.. advise or cffer suggestions, But let us all understand that .all of our tr.ubles sxq to be handled in the chain of coniwind as th^ organization is set up. That is why we elect officers In a recent conversation with the Imperial Wizard the pins ad- pted in 3 'ham should be in the hands of each state. The G.D.s office will let y. u know when they are ready for distribution here in Georgia. In the C'.-mirg months let us renew our faith in the .rganizati'n and atriva for UNITY in the UNITED KLaKS OF hMERICA INC. I>ue to the arrest of several white Mls.'sissippians who, have been charged in confi nnaotion with the recent bindings in MoComb.Miss, The Grand Dragon -f Miss. advises me thatit is nessesary to go t ■ the assistance of these men whe^ have been imjillcated by the press that thay are Klansaen. However the only thing they had cncering the KLan was a ccmplimentary card of some s^rt. As ycu kno^w we do n- 1 condrne nor advocate such acts of vioaenGe,but we beleive these man are victims of cireusmstanoeB .Iftss, needs y.ur help send yo.ur ^o.nations t E.LiKdaniel G.D. Mis.n. P.r.Bf'X 1341 NATCHE.Z.IIISS. Klanspe'-ple the work that y^u d^ In the noxt 3 weeks may be the turning factcr in the future of this great and glorius country. A ME R I C h THE KLAN DID IT BEFORE LET THE UNITED DO IT NfW Y.-urs f'^r GOD and Gauntry Calvin F.C raig ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3051 Mr. Appell. Is the deceit of the United Klans of America about its nonviolent position which it gives to the general public also com- parable to the deceit which it gives to its own members with respect to violence of its membership ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. McDaniel, did you attend — I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you attended a public rally of the United Klans of America, Kealm of Louisiana, held at the West Monroe Fairgrounds, West Monroe, Louisiana, on December 6, 1964 ? I ask you to affirm or deny that fact. Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Did you advise Klansmen there that you had, you and your lieutenants that accompanied you, had to return to Natchez, Mississippi, because Imperial Wizard Shelton was in Mississippi con- tacting United Klans units in that State about raising money to defend the individuals arrested by the FBI on the murder of the civil rights workers the previous summer. Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Weltner. Mr. McDaniel, according to our investigation, you had placed in the public press in September 1964 a statement to the ejffect that you wished to inform all parties concerned that the United Klan does not condone or advocate bombing. I want to ask you today, Mr. McDaniel, does the United Klan condone or advocate bombing? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. How many members are there of the Mississippi Kealm of the United Klans of America ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. In April of this year, according to our investigation, you issued a statment welcoming this inquiry by the House Com- mittee on Un-American Activities. Now in connection with that, you stated, I believe, "I have always advocated nonviolence and will continue to do so." I would like to know, Mr. McDaniel, today whether or not you as the chief executive officer of the Mississippi Realm of the United Klans of America do advocate nonviolence ? Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, I do not intend to correct the Chair, but I believe the Chair said in April of this year. I believe it was April of last year. Mr. Weltner. April 1965. Thank you, Mr. Chalmers. With that correction, I would ask the witness whether or not he does advocate nonviolence. Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. How much money was collected for the defense of Klansmen involved in several legal proceedings in Mississippi pur- suant to this bulletin issued by Grand Dragon of Georgia and other efforts among the other Klans? 3052 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. MgDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the ground previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Do you know Lawrence Rainey, the sheriff of Neshoba County, Mississippi ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. McDaniel, was there not broadcast widely in this country a CBS television documentary on September 17, 1965, wherein you introduced Sheriff Rainey on the platform of the public gathering of the Mississippi Realm of the United Klans of America ? Isn't that a fact ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Is Sheriff Rainey a member of the United Klans of America? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Did you invite Sheriff Rainey to make an investi- gation of the United Klans of America as indicated on that television program ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. McDaniel, did you discuss with any of the following parties their appearance before this committee today : Paul Dewey Wilson, Murphy Duncan, Emery Lee? Did you have any discussion with any of these parties as to their appearance before this committee ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based on the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Do you have some further questions, Mr. Appell ? Mr. Appell. Yes. Mr. McDaniel, someone mailed to the committee a clipping from a newspaper which I believe to be a Jackson, Mississippi, paper, which carries a caption, "Over 100 Crosses Burned In State." The article sets forth that this, according to the Mississippi High- way Patrol, was strictly a planned operation by the United Klans of America and I quote: "Klansmen were advised a week or so in advance to take part in this protest burning, which was in protest of the House Un-American activities committee hearings which resumed Tuesday." I ask you if you as the Grand Dragon ordered these series of cross- burnings and what did you hope to accomplish by them ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question based upon the groands previously stated. (Document marked "Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 4" follows:) ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3053 Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 4 I Unidentified Mississippi newspaper of January 5, 1966) Over 100 Crosses Burned In State By JOHN HALL Associated Press Writer la pickup truck opened fire off- FBI agents sockin;: ,i.e Iscense 'tag numbpf o- their pickup Officials said Tuesday prob-; truck after tiie .Tiea drrvpped a ably over 100 crosses were set j burning coss 'efore tiie Ben- aflame from one end of Misiis-jton Countv Cit.vens Ciuh huild- sippi to the other Monday night mg a CiviJ Rights headquarter?'. in a nearly .vunultaneous Kui Bobby Byrd, 22, and Allen Klux Klan operation protesting j Byrd, both' of Benton county, resumption of Congressional in- ; were arrested and charged with vestigation of the KKK. j assault. Gunfire between officer andj FBI, Highway Patrol and clandestine cross - burners was t county officers chased the pick- reported in at least two places, ' up to Allen Byrd's farm and and at least eight men were ar- captured Bobby in nearb} rested in three places Tne Hicln^ - " •' was posr.i'. were buriKu that got underway arm Monday night Another report came from anj ix)d.s. Allen turned himself in I'Mesday. The patrol said crosses and expended .W caliber and shot- gun ammunition were found in the pickup truck. In another Meridian incident. official who diriinod to be (police arrested five men on quoted by name said nearly 100 ' crosses had bee;i reported and more were expected and "prob- ably a very few were never ob- served. The^p )'•'" minimum figuri ^ ■ : ha\ He a p: week part which House re- A<tij in proU:s Un-American committee hearings ' sumed Tuesday." group of men met gunfire when thev tossed a flaming charges of con.-^iracy to com mit a crime after a kerosene- soaked cross was discovered in their pickup truck. OUT O.N BOND The men. wiio were re- leased on 5i5O0 bond, were iden- afied as Mack Holdiness, 41. Thomas L. Cockrell, 32. Charles ' May 25, Charles Kenr.eth Har- ri.son 31, and Robert Broad- V - ,>i" Meridian .'lso reported at ' ■ .,: : -.n was arrested at tiie I Pontotoc ;n connection with vilies' crosses. Several persons were surprised just inside Monti- cello burning a cross, but Uiere were no arrests. _ Cro^.ses burntxl by county In cross m the yard of the home! a partial list, officials reported. of Meridian Attorney William ! showed Pt-arl River with 15, M-- stake Ready ; ...:...:. _ -' j twice'wi'n a ■ihotgun, but ;: was not knov-n if they hit any cross- bun»OTS. Washington 11. Winston 10, Lau- k'fdale liuhr, Hinds seven. Pike von, Mar->ha]l six. Choctaw :.e, Clarke five, Pontotoc four, Sharkey four, Adams four. Wa\Tie four, Benton three. ''lay three, Lincoln Uiree, Jones In Nor th Mississippi, men in.l three and Lowndes two. Official? one cros= i.e:ikn. !" Tippah ,,- ;)nd seve'\. ... iN.n. The> iaw .lyuit;^ w.-rt- ^ •nmimum. The crosses generally ap- ()eared in front of desegregated school or at other public places, such as courth<wses and on- highways and streets, particu- larly at intersections. GOT INSTRUCTIONS The official wlio reported the j figure of 100 said Klansmen i were instructed to put the cross- !es in public places and "if they ! decided to go down and put it I in front of the house of one of .'his enemies that was that." ; The FBI said federal charges : of assaultir^ an officer had I not been placed against the men arrested in Benton county. The offense carries a penalty of 10 years in prison and$10,000
fine as a maximum if a deadly
; weapon s used.
■j In Jackson, crosses appeared
! aflame in front of six desegre-
i gated schools and the city's Ne-
I gro .Municipal Aoditorom at
I College Park.

i The &.hools were Murrah,
jProvme and Central High
! schools and Robert E. l«e.
I Bar^ and George Elementary
j schov>ls.

i In WashingUm county, a^tho^
\ itJes attributed the cross43um-
ings to the United Klans of
; America and said tticy probably
; know identities of the Klansmen
involved.

Witnesses, they said, saw two
carloads of men stop and burn
a cross after donning KKK
robes and hoods.

Other crosses in Meridian
were set aflartie at the home
of Mayor Al Key, Meridian City-
Junior College and Marion Park
; Elementary School. Tlie tun
i schools have Negro students
i along with whites.

Mr, Appell. Mr. McDaniel, the Philadelphia Bulletin of December
24, 1965, states that the Grand Dragon of the Mississippi Ku Klux
Klan last night had Natchez Police Chief J. T. Robinson arrested on
a charge of failing to enforce the law.

3054

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

And the article stated that lie was so arrested, and I ask you, Mr.
McDaniel, as Grand Dragon, whether this charge of failing to perform
a duty, which any citizen can perform under Mississippi law, was
designed by you to remove from the leadership of the police depart-
ment a police chief who was anti-Klan in order to have promoted
members of the United Klans of America who were members of that
police force ?

Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
on the grounds previously stated.

(Document marked "Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 5" follows:)

Edward McDaniel Exhibit No. 5
[Philadelphia, Pa., Bulletin, December 24, 1965]

Klan Charge
Brings Arrest
Of Police Chief

Grand Dragon Says
Natchez Official
Failed in Duty

Natchez, Miss., Dec. 24 —
(UPI)— The grand dragon of the
Vlississippi Ku Klux Klan last
flight had Natchez Police Chief
r. T. Robinson arrested on a
:harge of failing to enforce the
aw.

In Mississippi, anyone can
sign an affidavit and have a man
arrested, and does not have to'
substantiate his charge until .a
•ater hearing.

Robinson was arrested by

Sheriff Odell Anders and re-
leased on a $100 bond. There was no official explan- ation of the charges, but Robin- son said grand dragon E. L. Mc- Daniel, a Natchez resident, had becii urging him to arrest civil rights leaders under a state anti- boycott law. Negros have renewed a boy- cott of Natchez merchants .be- cause, they claim, two police- men unnecessarily beat Negroes in a racial flareup on Wednes- day. The'boycott had been called off Dec. 3 when 22 merchants agreed to hire Negro clerks. Reprieve for Negroes Baton Rouge, La., Dec. 24 — (AP) — U. S. District Judge E. Gordon West late yesterday is- sued a restraining order to keep Negro sharecroppers in West Feliciana Parish from being evicted by their white landlords until the court can decide wheth- er they are being harassed for registering to vote. (At this point Mr. Senner entered the hearing room.) Mr. Appell. James K. Greer in a statement given to the Mississippi Highway Patrol, identified as a man he knew to be a Klansman Cap- tain Wisner of that police department. Was your action against Chief Robinson designed to promote Captain Wisner ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I have no further questions. Mr. Weltner. One further matter. Mr. McDaniel, you were directed by the committee to produce the documents referred to in paragraph 2 of the subpena served upon you. I extend to you at this point the opportunity to make known to this ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3055 committee any reason why yon might be unable to produce those documents. You do have that opportunity at this point to state, if that be the case, under oath that you are unable to comply with the subpena by virtue of the fact that, if that is the case, that you do not have possession or you do not have any such records in your custody or control or that they are not available to you. You now have that opportunity if you so desire. Mr. Chalmers. I am not certain whether that is a question or not, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Weltner. It is not a question, it is an opportunity I am giving tlie witness at this point, if he so desires, to state that or to bring that matter to the committee's attention. I make that offer in view of the action that the House of Representatives took on yesterday with re- gard to similar requirements of this committee. Hearing no response by the witness or his counsel, I will assume that he does not desire to make any statement at this point. Mr. Senner. Mr. Chairman. Mr. McDaniel, do you have in your possession or control the docu- ments or records called for by this subpena in paragraph 2 as ordered by the chairman of this committee to he produced at this point ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Senner. Do you have any knowledge of where those records might be so that you can easily obtain them and furnish them to this committee to comply with the subpena and the order of the chairman of this committee ? Mr. McDaniel. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based on the grounds previously stated. ]V[r. Weltner. There being no further questions, the vsdtness will be excused. The committee will stand in recess until 10 a.m. tomorrow, and the place of meeting of the subcommittee will be in the House Caucus Room in the Cannon Office Building. I might announce that the area to be inquired into tomorrow will be with regard to the State of Alabama. (Wliereupon, at 4:20 p.m., Thursday, February 3, 1966, the subcom- mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Friday, February 4, 1966.) 59-222 O — 67— pt. 4- ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES Part 4 FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1966 United States House of Representatives, Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, Washington^ D.O. PUBLIC HEARINGS The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as reconstituted for the February 4 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, at 10:20 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Charles L. Weltner (chairman of the sub- committee) presiding. (Subcommittee members: Representatives Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia, chairman; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of Alabama.) Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and Buchanan, Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William Hitz, general counsel ; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; Donald T. Appell, chief investigator ; and Phillip R. Manuel, investigator. Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will come to order. I file for the record at this point a designation of a subcommittee consisting of myself as chairman, Messrs. Ashbrook and Buchanan as associate members, for the purpose of conducting hearings on Friday, February 4. A quorum of that subcommittee is present, and Mr. Ap- pell, you will call your first witness. (The order of appointment of the subcommittee follows:) February 2, 1966. To Mr. Francis J. McNamara, Director, Committee on Un-American Activities: Pursuant to the provisions of tlie law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- sisting of Honorable Charles L. Weltner as Chairman, and Honorable John M. Ashbrook and Honorable John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hear- ings in Washington, D.C. on Friday, February 4, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authoriz- ing hearings concerning the activities of the various Ku KIux Klan organiza- tions in the United States. Please make this action a matter of Committee record. If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. Given under my hand this 2nd day of February, 1966. /s/ Edv?in B. Willis, Edwin E. Willis, Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities. 3057 3058 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Charles J. Seal? Would his attorney come forward ? Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, you are appearing here on behalf of the witness, Charles J. Seal? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir, I am, Mr. Chairman. Yesterday I re- ceived a telegram from Dr. W. F. Stringer of Poplarville, Mississippi, who has been appointed by the Veterans' Administration to look after this ex-veteran witli respect to a heart condition that he has. Now the telegram that I received yesterday afternoon after the hearing was recessed, I did not feel was satisfactory, so 1 bnd Mv. Seal contact Dr. Stringer again, and this telegram was received this morning : Charles J. Seals Room 522 Congress Motel, Wash., D.C. Mr. Seals, in addition to the information sent you this morning I believe that it would be against your health to be required to testify in any stressful .situation. , ' W. P. Stringer, M.D. Mr. Weltner. You are asking the committee to excuse the witness on the basis of that message? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; I am, and may I say this for the record and for the chairman's information? This young man has had about six heart attacks, as I understand, and he is under constant supervision of the Veterans' Administration, through the Dr. Stringer that they have asked for. Mr. Weltner. Well, without objection, the telegram of the physi- cian will be made a part of the record and this witness w^ll be excused. You are excused, Mr. Seal. Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. Mr. Appell. Mr. Robert Sidney Thomas. Mr. Weltner. Do you swear the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. Robert Thomas. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Be seated. Proceed, Mr. Appell. TESTIMONY OF ROBERT SIDNEY THOMAS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record? Mr. Robert Thomas. Robert Sidney Thomas. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you at 2802 Second Place, Northwest, Center Point, Birmingham, Alabama, on the 3d day of November 1965 by a deputy United States marshal ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? Mr. Chalmp^rs. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3059 Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, the subpeiia served upon you contained an attachment Avhich was made a part of the subpena, and according to the terms of the subpena, you were directed to bring with you and to produce documents set forth in paragraph 1 of the subpena which reads as follows: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Province #.5, Realm of Alabama and Eastview Klavern #13, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you o,r available to you as Titan, Province #.5, Realm of Alabama, and former Exalted Cyclops, Eastview Klavern #13 of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Robert Thomas. I respectfully decline to deliver to the com- mittee any and all documents as demanded by the committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in the violation of my rights as guaranteed me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Consti- tution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all rec- ords as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, for that information is not relevant, germane to the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in a consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of that authorized by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers ? Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, it is stipulated that the witness has been apprised of the chairman's opening statement with respect to the matter and that lie is familiar with the contents thereof. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thomas, the committee does not accept your reasons for refusing to produce these documents. Accordingly, I order and direct you to produce the documents required in the para- graph just read by the investigator. You are directed to produce those documents at this time. Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, wnll you stipulate also that the direc- tions in the subpena to produce the documents are those documents maintained in an official representative capacity of this witness? Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena. Mr. Weltner. As stated in the subpena. All right, Mr. Appell. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, paragraph 2 directs you to produce : All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as Titan, Province #5, Realm of Alabama, and former Exalted Cyclops, East- view Klavern #13 of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. 3060 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, Mr. Thomas, I ask you to produce the documents called for, (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the committee the documents requested, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thomas, I order and direct you to produce these documents, and I inquire of Mr. Chalmers whether the same stipu- lation as to the representative capacity stated in the subpena applies in this connection. Mr. Chalmers. It does, sir, and also the familiarity with the chair- man's opening statement. Mr. Weltner. You are directed to produce the documents, Mr. Thomas. Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the committee the documents ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, when and where were you born? Mr. Weltner. Prior to going into that, Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, you have at this point an opportunity under oath to present any rea- son to this committee why you are unable to produce documents called for in this subpena. You have that opportunity at this point : Either that they are not in your possession or that you have no custody or control over them or you have no access to them, and you have the opportunity to make any statement to that effect at this point. Hearing no response, the investigator will proceed. Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Thomas? Mr. Robert Thomas. I respectively decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel any answer might tend to incrimi- nate me in my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, in May of 1961, as a member of the Ala- bama Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, were you involved in the Freedom Bus trouble that was in Anniston and Birmingham ? And in connec- tion with that, did you have conversations with Imperial Wizard Robert M. Shelton? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, in a legal action brought by Robert M. Shelton against the Tuscaloosa Newspapers, Incorporated, and Buf ord Boone, et al., during a pretrial deposition Mr. Shelton was asked: In May, 1961, this was about the time of the so-called Freedom Bus trouble in Anniston and Birmingham, a long distance telephone call to your number in Tuscaloosa was charged to a Birmingham telephone listed to a Ro'ber't Thomas. Was Robert Thomas at that time a member of the Klan? And Mr. Shelton was instructed not to answer. Did you, as reported in the question, make a long-distance telephone call to Robert Shelton? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Excerpt from Shelton deposition marked "Robert Thomas Ex- hibit No. 1" follows:) ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3061 Robert Thomas Exhibit No. 1 ROBXRT N. SHBLTOH, PIAZMTZrr, VS. TUSCALOOSA HKWttAPimS, IMC., A COKPCllATZOV, BUrORD BOOKS, XT AL. , OBPBHDAJfTB. ZM TUS CZRCUZT COURT OP TD8CAL008A COUVTY, ALABAMA AT LAW Cas« Mo. 19462 APPBARAMCKS OH BBHALP OP PLAZVTZPPt CROWVOVKR ft BURROUOBS ON BEHALP OP DIPXlfDAXTS i J0MX8. NoKACHZV. ORMOVD 4 PULTOV Byt Mr. Bruca MaB«chin DBPOSZTZOW OP ROBBRT M. SHBLTOM T«X«n by 0«f«ndanta b«for« JIbbI* R. Black aa CowBlaalonar on Ootobar 14, 1964 in Rooai 223 of tha County Courthouaa, Tuaoaiooaa, Alabama, in accordanoa with tha proviaions of Act Mo. 375 of tha 19)5 L,agia- latura of Alabaaa, and purauant to tha following atipu- lationt ***** if * Q Zn May, 1961, thia waa about tha tia« of tha ao-calla^ Praadoa Bua troubla in Anniaton and Birninghaa, a long diatanca talaphona oall to your nuabar in Tuacalooaa waa chargad to a Birainghaa talaphona liatad to a Robart Tho»aa. Waa Robart Thomaa at that tima a nanbar of tha Klan? MR. BURROUORSi Inatruct bin not to anawar. 3062 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, do you know (xary Rowe? Mr. Egbert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the <>:rounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. According to newspaper accounts, Gary Rowe testified in a Title 18, section 241, trial recently in Montgomery, Alabama, that on your instruction that he. Collie Leroy Wilkins, Eugene Thomas, and W. O. Eaton were sent on a night-riding mission in Selma, Ala- bama. Was his testimony truthful ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness" claim of privilege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Robert Sidney Thomas. Mr. Thomas was born on January 25, 1929, at Birmingham, Ala- bama. He has received a 21^ year high school education. He served in the United States Marine Corps from August 21, 1946, to July 9, 1948, and received an honorable discharge. He resides at 2519 18th Avenue, Birmingham, Alabama, and is employed by Southern Railroad Company, B i rm ingham. In 1963, Mr. Thomas w^as the exalted cyclops of Eastview Klavern No. 13, and since 1964 has been great titan of Province No. 5, Realm of Alabama, which position he currently holds. According to the committee's investigation, he is one of the most influential Klansmen in the United Klans of America in Alabama, and has the power to dictate the appointment of Klavern, realm, and even imperial officers. Robert Thomas was a member of the Klan of Alabama at the time it was affiliated with the U.S. Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, under Eldon Edwards. When the Alabama Realm of the U.S. Klans was expelled because of the refusal of Robert M. Shelton to make accounting of funds and also because Imperial Wizard Edwards was imable to control the violence of the Alabama Klansmen, Thomas, Shelton, Hubert Page, and Fredrick Smith were the leaders in the creation of an independent Klan group known as the Alabama Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Many meetings in which the primary discussion is that of violence have been held at the residence of Robert Thomas. Early in 1965, Robert Thomas discussed from the floor of a meeting of Eastview Klavern No. 13 that, in the future, members of the orga- nization would adopt a new tactic in dealing with racial demonstra- tors. Thomas stated that in the future, no large number of Klansmen would show up at a demonstration — just one or two men, who would appear on the scene, and if able, would drop grenades out of a second- story window, or from a rooftop, into the midst of demonstrators, and then calmly leave the area. Thomas stated that, in using this tactic, they would considerably lessen the danger of having known Klansmen identified at the scene of racial demonstrations. Thomas ordered Gary Rowe, Collie Leroy Wilkins, Eugene Thomas, and William Eaton to go to Selma, Alabama, on the night that Mrs. Viola Liuzzo was murdered. Robert Thomas attended a regular meeting of the Eastview Klavern on the night of March 25, 1964. During the meeting, he discussed a ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3063 forthcoming religious service to be conducted by Billy Graham. Thomas announced he expected trouble after the Graham rally. He pointed out that the last two times Billy Graham had held rallies, he had left the Negroes so depressed that they demonstrated after the rallies. Thomas expected that the city or county police would ask Klan support. He therefore advised the then exalted cyclops, Ronald Tidwell, to have all Klan leaders "in pocket." September 27, 1964, a meeting was held at the home of Robert Thomas, during which a plan was formulated to dynamite and other- wise assault with hand grenades and automatic weapons a Negro night club known as the Flame Club. On November 8, 1964, Robert Thomas attended a meeting of the Fort Payne, Alabama, Klavern. On April 30, 1964, Robert Thomas appointed Herbert Eugene Reeves as the exalted cyclops of Eastview Klavern No. 13, replacing Ronald Tidwell in that position. This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Thomas pos- sesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting re- medial legislation. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thomas, you have heard the sworn statement of the committee's investigator. You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that statement, to confirm, challenge the accuracy of the information, to explain any part of the statement. In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter which the committee deems relevant. I give you that opportunity now and point out that the record of this hearing today, unless it is rebutted by other evidence or by yourself, will show that you are the party responsiJDle for the presence in Selma of four men, who have since been convicted of in- volvement in one of the most notorious and brutal murders in the last decade. So you have that opportunity at this point, to make any statement that you wish to make. The witness remains silent, and upon that choice by the Avitness, I must advise him that unless other evidence comes to the attention of the committee, then we will rely upon the accuracy of this investigation. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, to your certain knowledge, have members of the United Klans of America been deputized in either the State highway patrol and the sheriff's departments or police departments throughout Province No. 5 ? Mr. Robert Thomas. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reasons that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. With respect to the Klavern at Fort Payne, Alabama, Mr. Thomas, do you know the officers of that Klavern to now be George D. Killian, K-i-1-l-i-a-n, of Route 1, Portersville, Alabama; Guton, G-u-t-o-n, H. Tutor, T-u-t-o-r, of 600 South Alabama Avenue, Fort Payne; and Cecil King of 706 Turner Avenue, Fort Payne? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, do you know of the existence within the State of Alabama of an Imperial Klokann Committee ? 3064 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that it is the responsibility of the klokann committee to carry out acts of violence deemed necessary by Klaveni leaders or by Klaverns themselves, or realm or imperial officers. Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated, Mr. Appell. Do you know Ralph Roton to be a member — Let me name them all. Do you know Ralph Roton, Herbert Eugene Reeves, Cecil Henson, Eugene Thomas, Madison Hill, and Ronald Tidwell to be members of the Imperial Klokami Committee ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowledge of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in 1963, at which four young girls were killed ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Do you know J. B. St oner '^ Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Did you ever confer with J. B. Stoner with respect to an act of violence which would be carried out by members of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Cliairman, the staff has no further questions to ask Mr. Thomas. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thomas, did you in fact direct Gary Rowe, Collie Leroy Wilkins, and others to Selma, Alabama, on the night that Mrs. Viola Liuzzo was killed ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, 1 respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Did you have any telephone conversations with those four men, subsequent to the shooting of Mrs. Liuzzo ? Mr. Robert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Buchanan ? Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, since this witness is from the Realm of Alabama, as are other witnesses about to be called, I would like to reiterate today what I said on the first day of these hearings, that is, that I approach this investigation from the point of view of one who loves the South and who believes in its people and who knows about them, that an overwhelming majority there deplore acts of violence and terrorism. I stated further that he Avho lias nothing to hide has nothing to fear from this investigation. And it was my hope then, which I expressed, that the members of the Ku Klux Klan would come for- ward, would answer questions, would tell us whatever there might be that they could tell us that was good about their organization, and would demonstrate that the things that had been believed about them through the long years by a great many people, that they were, in fact, guilty of acts of violence and terrorism, were groundless. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3065 Now this investigcation has gone on for many weeks, running into months. We have heard testimony concerning bombings, burnings, beatings, and worse, concerning various Klan members and groups. We have yet to liear any testimony from any leader of any Klan group concerning that wliich is good and worthwhile about this organization that claims to be a Christian organization. Now as far as I am concerned, whoever is guilty of committing acts of violence and terrorism, this criminal minority constitutes the worst enemy to the people of the South. This group, whoever they may be, plays into the hands of the Communist conspiracy in this country and around tlie world by forwarding the aims and goals of com- munism, in stirring racial dissension in the South and elsewhere, by feeding grist for the Communist propaganda mill into that mill, that it might be dispensed all over the world. These people are responsible for the whole world thinking the falsehood about the South, that acts of violence and terrorism are representative of the fine people of the South, and this is not the case. Such groups are responsible, in my considered judgment, for the passage, for building the motivation all over this country resulting in the passage, of legislation that some of us have not considered either wise or just, such as the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which in my judg- ment was neither wise nor just nor necessary. Those who committed acts of violence and terrorism set the stage for the passage of this act. Now, Mr. Thomas, I want to give you one more opportunity to answer the charges presented in this hearing this day against you and, further, to tell us any good thing you know about the Ku Klux Klan organization, because I will say to you, sir, that whoever is guilty of such acts of violence and terrorism as have been indicated in this hearing, whoever these people are, they constitute the worst enemies to the people of the South. They are playing into the hands of the Communist conspiracy, and I think if you know any answers, you ought to give them. If you know any good thing about the Ku Klux Klan, you ought to say it, here and now, and I invite all the subsequent Alabama witnesses to do the same. Mr. Weltner. Failing any response from the witness, the record will so indicate. Any further questions by the staff ? Mr. Appell. None, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Buchanan ? Mr. Buchanan. No, sir. Mr. Weltner. This witness may be excused. Call your next witness. Mr. Appell. Herbert Thomas. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Herbert Thomas. I do. 3066 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. TESTIMONY OF HERBERT THOMAS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Thomas. Mr. Herbert Thomas. Herbert Thomas. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you at 106 Low Street, Warrior, Alabama, W-a-r- r-i-o-r, on the 25th clay of October 1965 by a deputy United States marshal ? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Would counsel identify himself for the record? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501 First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, the subpena served upon you contained an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena. Under the terms of the subpena, you were commanded to bring with you and to produce those documents set forth in paragraph 1, reading as follows: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, and Warrior Klavern, Realm of Alabama, United Klans of America, in your possession., custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops of Warrior Klavern, Realm of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents. Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, for that information is not relevant, germane to the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the con- sideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Eesolution 8, adopted Janu- ary 4, 1965. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, do we have the stipulation that the Avitness has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening state- ment and is familiar with its contents and that the directions in the subpena to produce documents are made to the witness in his official representative capacity as described ? Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena; yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Thomas, your reasons for failing to comply with the subpena are not accepted by the committee, and as chairman of the subcommittee, I order and direct you to produce those documents. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3067 Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, paragraph 2 of the attachment to the subpena directs you to produce : All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as present or former Exalted Cyclops of Warrior Klavern, Realm of Alabama of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main- tained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. Under the representative capacity s(;t forth in paragraph 2, I ask you to produce the documents called for. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Do we have the same tAvo stipulations with regard to this paragraph'^ Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. ]Mr. Weltner. ]Mr. Thomas, I order you to produce those records. Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, as an exalted cyclops of the United Klans of America, Realm of Alabama, did you participate in a konv^okation or kloncilium which authorized Mrs. Robert Shelton to comake checks drawn against the Alabama Rescue Service, using the name James J. Hendrix ? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States. Mr. Appell. Did you vote to authorize Carol Long to comake checks with Robert M. Shelton, using the name "T. M. Montgomery"? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, the committee's investigation established that as of April 1965 that you were the exalted cyclops of Warrior Klavern, Warrior, Alabama, of the United Klans of America, Realm of Alabama. Is the investigative result of the committee factual? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, under the procedures, the operational procedures of the United Klans of America, each Klavern appoints a klokann committee, whose members are appointed by the exalted cyclops. Did you as exalted cyclops appoint a klokann committee? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to ansAver that question, ba.sed upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. In addition to yourself as the exalted cyclops who are tlie officers of the Warrior Klavern? Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. 3068 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX- KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Thomas, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you were born on August 19, 1914, at Beltona, B-e-1-t-o-n-a, Alabama. Mr. Herbert Thomas. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff lias no further questions to ask of this witness. Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Thomas, I would like to give you the same opportunity I gave to the other Mr. Thomas. Now we have found in some States, and we have had some testimony indicating there were men who came into the Ku Klux Klan with no idea of wrongdoing, out of strong convic- tions, that have not been guilty of any wrongdoing, and some of those have, since the beginning of this hearing, disassociated themselves from the United Klans and other like groups. I want to give you opportunity today to testify to this committee as to anything good you know as to the denial of any charges that have been made, or I want to invite you to follow the example of other like men who have themselves entered an organization with no intent of wrongdoing and have, therefore, disassociated themselves from that organization in light of the things that we have uncovered in these hearings. I didn't ask a question. I want to give you an opportunity to speak, if you will. Mr. Weltner. The record will indicate the witness remains silent. The witness is excused. Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. Mr. Appell. Konald Jefferson Tidwell, Mr, Weltner, Raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are to give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Tidwell. I do. Mr. Weltner. Be seated. TESTIMONY OF RONALD JEFFERSON TIDWELL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr, Tidwell, Mr, Tidwell. Ronald Jefferson Tidwell. Mr. Appfjll, Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 26th day of October 1965 at 1309-16th Avenue North, Birmingham, Alabama, by a deputy United States marshal ? Mr. Chalmers. May I inquire, please, sir, what is the date of the subpena, the date of its issuance by the chairman ? I believe it is the 14th. Mr. Appell. 14 October ; yes, sir. It was served the 26th. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Tidwell. Yes. Mr. Weltner. The witness is represented by counsel. Will he iden- tify himself at this point? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3069 Mr. Appell. Mr. Tidwell, the subpena served upon you contained an attaclmient, which was made a part of the subpena. And under the terms of subpena, you were directed to bring w^th you and to produce documents set forth in two paragraphs. Paragraph 1 reads : All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and. affairs of the Invisible Em- pire, United Klaus, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, and Eastview Klavern #13. in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as former Exalted Cyclops of Eastview Klavern #13 of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. TiDWELL. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit- tee any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 14, and 4 of the Constitution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under investigation and the same w^ould not aid the Congress in the consid- eration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquii-y within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, do we have a stipulation about the opening statement of the chairman, to the effect that this witness has received a copy of it and understands the contents? Mr. Chalmers. He is familiar with it ; yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. And do w^e have a stipulation to the effect that the documents called for in the subpena are called for in the representa- tive capacity of this witness as designated in the subpena ? Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Tidwell, this committee does not accept your re- fusal to deliver these documents, and I order and direct you to produce them at this time. Mr. Tidwell. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. And I give you an opportunity, if you so desire, to set forth for this committee any reason why you are unable, by virtue of nonpossession or want of custody or lack of access to these records, to comply with the mandate of this subpena. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Weltner. There being no response, we will proceed to the next paragraph. Mr. Appell. Mr. Tidwell, under paragraph 2 you were ordered to produce : 3070 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as former Exalted Cyclops of Eastview Klavern #13 of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knijjhts of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, 1 ask yon to produce the documents called for. Mr. TiDWELL. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to tlie committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltxer. Mr. Chalmers, do we have tlte same two stipulations with regard to this paragraph ? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Tidwell, I order you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Tidwell. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Tidwell, when and where were you born? Mr. Tidwell. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel my answers might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as quaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Tidwell, I put it to you as a fact that you possess knowledge of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, on September 15, 1963, and I ask you to give the committee the benefit of that knowledge. Mr. Tidwell. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, is that date and place the incident where on a Sunday morning in the city of Birmingham, Alabama, a Negro church was bombed, with the loss of the lives of four Sunday school students ? Mr. Appell. That is our understanding also, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Tidw^ell, have you served on the Imperial Klokann Committee '( Mr. Tidw^ell. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr, Appell. As a member of the Imperial Klokann Committee, have you ever been instructed, and did you carry out those instructions, with respect to acts of intimidation or violence ? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Tidwell. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Tidwell, have you ever served time in a jail or penitentiary. Mr. Tidwell. I respectfully decline to answ^er that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness" claim of priv- ilege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I jn-esent to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Ronald Jefferson Tidwell. He was born in Jefferson County, Alabama, on January 23, 1935. He received education at the Phillips High School from January of ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3071 1956 to March of 1956, when he quit. He has been employed since in various posirious as an electrician. Tidwell was arrested and charged with burglary and grand larceny on March 13, 1950. On July 26, 1956, he was sentenced to 6 months in jail, and placed on probation for 2 years. He was arrested on June 17, 1962, on a charge of violating the State Fireanns Act. On June 27, 1962, the charge was changed to carrying a concealed weapon. He was fined$55 on this charge.

At an election of officers of the Eastview Klavern No. 13 of the
United Klaus of America on December 29, 1963, Ronald Tidwell was
elected exalted cyclops of the Klavern. On April 22, 1964, the Klan
had expressed an interest in the possible demonstrations at Tuscaloosa,
Alabama, and Ronald Tidwell had announced that action groups
should be on standby notice.

On January the 20th, 1964, Tidwell at a meeting of Eastview
Klavern No. 13, made the comment that "If w^e're going to be Ku
Kluxers, let's Klux." And in this comiection, Mr. Chairman, "Klux-
ing" is a term referred to within the Klan as a militant action on the
part of the membership.

On January 23, 1964, Tidwell presided over a meeting of the East-
view Klavern No. 13. At that time, Tidwell commented that he had
heard from the Tutwiler Hotel that the FBI had found out about the
approaching klonvokation and that he had the impression that the
Tutwiler management was "shook."

Tidwell added that the leak of information appeared to come from
Eastview Klavern or the Warrior Klavern in Warrior, Alabama. He
stated, "We will have to be extremely careful with such information in
the future."

Tidwell said that Shelton, the Imperial Wizard, was sought for an
interview by the news media, and that his comment was that he did
not know anything about a klonvokation.

Tidwell also said that after an applicant to the Klan had been
checked out, that "we have a contact w4iere we can check city, county,
and Federal arrest records." Tidwell discussed a push similar in
Montgomery to the bus incident at Birmingham. Tidwell further
said that "around June of this year [1964], the demonstrations will
probably be going strong." He said the "Klansmen will go down-
town and get something started, and once it catches on, the Klansmen
will drop out and get the leaders, once this is over."

Tidwell added "a tap on the head won't be enough." Tidwell said
once the Klansmen got a conflict between whites and Negroes started,
"they can drop out, get the leaders, and quit all Klan activities for
6 months."

Tidwell added that memibers would receive summonses in the Fiery
Gross and that they should respond immediately.

A Klansman, Ross Keith, made a comment that all Klansmen
would have to bring their guns with them to the klonvokation at the
Tutwiler, since the public now knows about the Tutwiler meeting.

At this point, Tidwell exhibited a pistol he had under his coat and
showed a pistol he had inside a briefcase with him at that time.

At a regular meeting of the Eastview Klavern held on the night of
January 30, Tidwell said he had information from the Mississippi
State Legislature about a 70-year-old man who was arrested along

57-222 O— 67— pt. 4 12

3072 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLTJX KLAN IN THE U.S.

with some yoiiiio-er men, and tliey made him sit against the wall with
his knees drawn up and his hands locked around them for over 3
hours, and that when he relaxed his knees, that someone hit him with
a night stick and broke his kneecap.

On March 26, 1964, Tidwell attended a meeting at the Eastview
Klavern hall, in wliich it was announced that all seven squads of the
Eastview Klavern would be on standby for the Billy Graham rally
being held at the Legion Field on March 29, 1964. Robert Sidney
Thomas, the great titan, announced he expected trouble after the
Graham rally. Thomas said that the city police expected trouble
at the rally and that he thought the city or county would ask for
Klan support and, therefore, he wanted Exalted Cyclops Tidwell to
have all this leaders "in pocket" on Sunday.

Ronald Tidwell as exalted cyclops of Eastview^ Klavern No. 13
expressed interest in the opening of the American National Bank,
which w^as to be a Negro institution in Birmingham, Alabama. Tid-
well suggested pulling the string on a tear gas container, causing
confusion and beating a few Negroes in the subsequent panic.

Tidwell was heard to remark that "something ought to be deposited
in the bank, but I do not have any money."

On April 14, 1964, the day before the American National Bank was
to open, Robert Thomas instructed that there would be no Klan action
and that he had informed Ronald Tidwell of his desire in this matter.

Thomas indicated that Tidwell claimed the people of Birmingham
w^ere tired of the Klan's inaction. How^ever, Thomas stated that
Ronald Tidwell had not presented any factual reasons for bombing
the bank; therefore, he did not care to jeopardize the Klan when he
knew the area would be saturated w^ith police officers.

On April 30, 1964, Robert Thomas, province titan, appointed Herb-
ert Eugene Reeves as the new exalted cyclops of Eastview Klavern
No. 13, replacing Ronald Tidwell.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Tidwell
possesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant
to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in the enact-
ment of remedial legislation.

Mr. Weltner. The reporter wnll strike from the record any refer-
ence to any offenses charged against this witness which were subse-
quently dismissed.

Mr. Tidwell, you have heard the result of this investigation, and
you have an opportunity at this point to reply to any portion of that
statement. You may, if you desire, challenge or confirm the accuracy
of any of that information or of any other matter, if you see fit. And
I must observe that, as the matter now stands, this record will show a
substantial involvement by yourself over a period of some several
years with some acts of violence, leading to the loss of human life,
so you have an opportunity to say whatever you desire at this point.

The witness, not undertaking to respond to that opportunity, is
advised that absent his rebuttal or any other facts which come before
this committee, the committee will rely upon the accuracy of its
investigation.

Any questions?

Mr. Buchanan. Just of Mr. Appell, Mr. Chairman,

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3073

Mr. Appell, you stated — and I am referring to charges which were
not dismissed — that this witness had an arrest record dating back in
1956, during whicli year, I believe, there were charges of burglary
and grand larceny, and then, later, a charge of carrying a concealed
weapon. Is that correct?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Buchanan. Now, you then stated that on December 29, 1963,
some time thereafter, he was elected exalted cyclops of the Eastview
Klavern No. 13 of the United Klans. Is that correct?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Buchanan. Now, this Eastview Klavern is located in the city
of Birmingham, I believe, and therefore within my congressional
district.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Buchanan. And so following this record, he was elected as
leader of that Klan group. That is correct?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Buchanan. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Weltner. The witness is excused.

Call your next witness, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Rayford Martin.

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give in
this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF RAYFORD JACKSON MARTIN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record.

Mr. ISIartin. Rayford Jackson Martin.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Martin, are you represented by counsel?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Will your counsel identify himself ?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, are you appearing here today in accordance
with a subpena served upon you at 1711 Buena Vista Circle, Decatur,
Alabama, on October 25, 1965, by a deputy United States marshal?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Mr Appell. Mr. Martin, the subpena served upon you contained an
attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the
terms of the subpena you were commanded to bring with you and to
produce documents described in two paragraphs. Paragraph 1 reads :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible
p:;nii)ire. United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also
known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
and affiliated organization.s, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and the Decatur
Klavern, Realm of Alabama, in your pos.se.'^sion, custody or control, or maintained
by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops of Decatur
Klavern, Realm of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of
America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

3074 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you
to produce the documents called for.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Martin. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honsetly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guanrateed to me
by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constituion of the United States
of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as required by this committee under subpena — as requested by this
committee under subpena dated October the 14th, 1965, for that in-
formation is not relevant and germane to the subject under investi-
gation and the same would not aid the Congress in the consideration
of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiiy within the scope
of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted
by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January the 4th,
1965.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, do we have the stipulation that this
witness has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement
and understands the content thereof ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And also that the documents sought to be reached
by this subpena are documents alleged to be maintained or in the
possession of this witness in the representative capacity stated in the
subpena.

Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, can't we stipulate that he — the serv-
ice of the subpena was served upon him and that the subpena speaks
for itself, which we have heretofore done ?

Mr. Weltner. I am not consciously trying to vary the format.

Mr. Chalmers. I certainly realize that ; I fully realize it, but I tell
you what's the truth ; I hate to go up one street and come back, seeing
myself the other way.

Mr. Weltner. We have stipulated that the directions of the subpena
to produce the documents called for are made to the witness in the
official representative capacity described in the subpena. Is that
correct ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Thank you, Mr. Chalmers.

Mr. Martin, the committee does not accept your reasons for refusing
to produce these documents, and, consequently, I order and direct you
to produce them at this time.

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. And as in other cases, you are offered the opportunity
at this point to present to the committee any reason why you are unable
to produce these documents, either for lack of possession or custody or
for want of access thereto.

You remain silent. We will proceed to the next paragraph.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, paragraph 2 called for you to produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
present or former Exalted Cyclops of Decatur Klavern, Realm of Alabama of the

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3075

United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of tlie Ku Kliix Klan, wliich the "Con-
stitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained
by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your posses-
sion, custody or control.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, 1 ask you to
produce tlie documents called for.

Mr. Maktix. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered.

Mr. Weltner. For what reason, Mr. Martin ?

Mr. Martin. Based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, may we have the same two stipulations
with regard to this paragraph ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Martin, I direct and order you to produce those
documents at this time.

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, the committee's investigation established
you to be the exalted cyclops of Decatur Klavern, United Klans of
America, Incorporated, Realm of Alabama. Is the result of the com-
mittee's investigation factual?

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answ^er that question for
the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and
14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. As an exalted cyclops, Mr. Martin, can you explain to
the committee why it is necessary in an organization that publicly
designates itself as being nonviolent to require a member to swear that
he will keep secret the secret of a Klansman, except for crimes such as
treason against the United States, rape, and malicious murder?

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previousl}^ stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, I put it to you as a fact that you were born
on July 15, 1936, at Rogersville, Alabama. I ask you to affirm or deny
the fact.

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. As an exalted cyclops, I put it to you as a fact, and ask
you to affirm or deny the fact, that you never attended a klonvokation
or kloncilium which authorized Mrs. Robert Shelton to comake checks
with her husband, using the name "James J. Hendrix," or Carol Long
to comake checks with Robert M. Shelton.

I ask you to affirm or deny the fact.

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Martin, under the United Klans of America, an
exalted cyclops appoints a klokann committee. Will you identify the
committee, the members of the klokami committee, which you ap-
pointed as exalted cyclops?

Mr. Martin. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of this witness.

3076 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Weltner. No further questions of this witness ?

He is excused.

The subconnnittee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will come to order.

Mr. Appell. Wilson Hood.

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give in
this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

Mr. Hood. I do.

Mr. Weltner. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF WILSON HOOD, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Hood.

Mr. Hood. Wilson Hood.

Mr. Weltner. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Hood ?

Mr. Hood. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Counsel will identify himself.

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501 First
Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Hood, are you appearing here today in accordance
with a subpena served by a deputy United States marshal on October
25, -- -- - - - - ~

Alabama ?

Mr. Hood. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you say "yes" ?

Mr. Hood. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Hood, the subpena served upon you contained an
attacliment, which was made a part of the subpena, and the subpena
directed you to bring with you and to produce documents called for in
two paragraphs in the attachment. Paragraph 1 reads :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also know as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klu Klan, and affiliated organi-
zations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Moulton Klavern, Realm of
Alabama, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or avail-
able to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Moulton Klavern, Realm of
Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of
America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc.. Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan.

I ask that, in the representative capacity set forth in paragraph
1, you produce the documents called for.

Mr. Hood. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena
dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
for this information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the considera-

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3077

tioii of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted Janu-
ary 4, 1965.

Mr. Weltxer. ]\Ir. Chalmers, we can stipulate that the witness has
been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement and that
he is familiar with the content thereof ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Can we further stipulate that the directions of the
subpena to produce the documents called for are made to the witness
in the official representative capacity described in the subpena ?

Mr, Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Hood, the committee does not accept your rea-
sons for refusal to produce these documents, and, accordingly, as chair-
man of this subcommittee, I order and direct you to produce those
documents at this time.

Mr. Hood. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. And I offer to you, if you so desire, the opportunity
to present to this committee any reason why you might be unable to
comply with the mandate of that subpena.

The record will note that the witness offers nothing in response.

Proceed, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Hood, paragraph 2 calls for you to produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Moulton Klavern, Realm of Alabama of
the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the
"Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main-
tained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your
possession, custody or control.

Mr. HooD. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Weltner. May we have the same stipulations, Mr. Chalmers?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Hood, the committee directs you to produce those
documents at this time.

Mr. Hood. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the
documents heretofore ordered by the chainnan, based upon the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Hood, the committee investigations establish you
to be the exalted cyclops of Moulton Klavern in Moulton, Alabama.
Are the results of the committee's investigation factual ?

Mr. Hood. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me
in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4,
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Hood, under the operational procedures of the
United Klans of America, the exalted cyclops appoints a klokann com-
mittee. This klokann committee is required to make investigations and
carry out acts of intimidation, violence, upon order and instructions
of the exalted cyclops or of the Klavern itself.

3078 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Hood. Sir, I

Mr. Appell. Identify to the committee, please, the members of tht
Mokaiin committee which you appointed as exalted cyclops.

Mr. Hood. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of this witness.

Mr. Weltner. One or two questions.

Are you presently the exalted cyclops of the Moulton Klavern of
the United Klans of America, Mr. Hood ?

Mr. Hood. Sir, I resj^ectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused.
, Call your next witness.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I call Myrtie Eugene Stephens.

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will
give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Stephens. I do.

Mr. Weltner. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF MYRTIE EUGENE STEPHENS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record.

Mr. Stephens. Myrtie Eugene Stephens.

Mr. Appell. Kepresented by counsel ?

Mr. Stephens. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record ?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501 First
Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stephens, are you appearing before the committee
today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 25,
1965, at 226 12th South, Bessemer, Alabama ?

Mr. Stephens. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think that is South 12th Street, Bes-
semer, Alabama. I ask that the record be corrected.

Mr. Weltner. The record will be corrected accordingly.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stephens, under the terms of the subpena served
upon you and an attachment thereto, which was made a part of the
subpena, you were ordered to produce, bring with you and to produce,
documents described in two paragraphs. Paragraph 1 reads :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire.
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as
the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Bessemer Klavern #20.
Realm of Alabama, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you
or available to you as present or former Kligrapp, Bessemer Klavern #20, Realm
of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
of America, Inc.. also known as the United Klans of America, Inc.. Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you
to produce the documents called for.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3079

Mr. Stephens. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me
by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this conmiittee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the considera-
tion of any valid remedial legislation, or is such inquiry within the
scope of that authority to be investigated by House Rule XI of the
rules adopted by the 89th Congress of the House Resolution 8, adopted
January 4, 1965.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, can we stipulate that this witness has
been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement and is
familiar with the contents thereof?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Can we also stipulate that the directions of the sub-
pena to produce documents called for are made to the witness in the
official representative capacity described in the subpena ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Stephens, the committee does not accept your
grounds for refusing to produce these documents, and, as chairman of
this subcommittee, I order and direct you to produce them at this time.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the com-
mittee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon
the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. All right. At this time, the committee will extend
to you an opportunity to bring before the committee any reason that
you might have for any inability to comply with the requirements of
this subpena.

The record will show the Avitness remains silent.

Proceed to the next paragraph.

Mr. Appell. Paragraph 2, Mr. Stephens, orders you to produce:

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as
present or former Kligrapp, Bessemer Klavern #20, Realm of Alabama of the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Con-
stitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained
by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your
possession, custody or control.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you
to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the com-
mittee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Weltner. Can we have tlie same two stipulations with regard
to this paragraph?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Stephens, you are hereby directed to produce
the documents described in paragraph 2.

3080 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit-
tee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. And the Chair would like to direct that the reporter
at this point in the record set out a portion of the Constitution and
Laws of the United Klans of America previously entered into the
record as Shelton Exhibit No. 3, specifically that portion identified
at Section 5 on page 39 thereof, which sets forth the duties of the
kligrapp of a Klavern.

(Section 5 follows:)

Section 5. KLIGRAPP : The Kligrapp is the secretary and recording oflBcer
of the Klan. He shall keep an accurate and complete record of all the proceed-
ings of his Klan assembled, and a correct and systematic record of its member-
ship, and of the date each member was naturalized, etc., as required by the record
book for that purpose. He shall make a report through the proix^r channles [sic]
to the proper officers not later than the 10th of the month for the calendar month
last past on the regular blanks therefor ; and with his reports he shall remit to
said oflScer or officers, all monies belonging to this Order, such as Imperial Tax,
Realm or Provincial Tax, Klectokons monies due for supplies and any and all
other monies due and payable to said officers. He shall witness all requisitions
made for any article or paraphernalia, regalia, jewelry, or other property of this
Order, to be used by the Klan or a member thereof, and see that the required
sum of money is sent therewith. He shall notify all members who are in arrears
three months, and shall notify the Imperial office of the arrears of a member for
three months. He shall be the custodian of the seal of the Klan and shall impress
it on all papers and documents requiring same and perform such other duties
as may be required of him by the Exalted Cyclops, the Kloran and the By-Laws
of his Klan.

Mr. Weltner. Proceed, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stephens, is the Klavern to which you belong,
Bessemer Klavern No. 20, the Klavern which had among its member-
ship W. O. Eaton and Eugene Thomas ?

Mr. Stephens. I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments
5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stephens, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you
to affirm or deny the fact, that the cover name of Bessemer Klavern
No. 20, and a name under which it operates a bank account at the First
National Bank of Birmingham, Bessemer branch, is the Young Men's
Social Club, Box 3093, Hueytown, Alabama.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. As an officer of that Klavern, were you ever a comaker
of checks made payable to "Gene Thomas" and "W. O. Eaton"?

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact that you were the comaker,
and I hand you Recordak copies of four checks to establish that fact.

Mr. Chairman, the record should be corrected. There are five.

Mr. Weltner. The witness is handed five checks for his perusal.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, the two names among others shown on
those checks, "W. O. Eaton" and "Gene Thomas," are those the names
of the individuals who along with Gary Rowe and Collie Leroy

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

3081

Wilkins were involved in the Viola Liuzzo incident in March of 1965?

Mr. Appell. They are, sir.

I would like to put to Mr. Stephens as a fact, and ask him to affirm
or deny the fact, that Collie Leroy Wilkins was also a member of his
Klavern.

Mr. Stp:phens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Checks marked "Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 1." Two of said
checks follow; others not reproducible.)

Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 1

KHhorB

. w

1/y ^ ,

-^^FmsfiitiiiiiMii*^

Mr. Appell. Mr. Stephens, I put it to you as a fact that this Klavern
has been known as the Young Men's Social Club since 1956, when it
was affiliated with the TT.S. Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
under the leadership of Eldon Edwards.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answ^er that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. 1 shall hand you for your verification, Mr. Stephens,
signature cards filed with the First National Bank of Birmingham,
Bessemer branch, which signature cards establish that July 28, 1956,
that the authorized signatures to that account were L. J. Praytor,

3082

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

p-r-a-y-t-o-r, K. R. Fields, F-i-e-1-d-s, George Houston, H-o-ii-s-t-o-n;
that this authorization was changed on November 9, 1960, to the
names of Henry G. McDaniel, M. Eugene [Myrtie E.] Stephens,
Oscar T. Syx; and that on March the 17, 1965, the signature card
authorized signatures of James R. Whitefield, Cecil E. Davenport, and
Oscar T. Syx.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
basod upon the grounds previously stated.

(Documents marked "Myrtie Stephens Exhibits Nos. 2-A through
2-0," respectively, follow:)

Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 2-A

FORM 60-a-IM— 10-:

THIii='lRST

F3ESSEMER BRANCH "''^^!'^^^^^'

\j IK OF Birmingham, Birmingham. ALA

TIic signature—.. .;.
will recognize in the pa>

drafts, acceptances .ind n

The handling by tVii-;
shown on- the icvtip*? .=•
conditior.3' :•.'!•' r-.i-,.;,.. •>;

:tliorizcd signature-
i insaction of other

-ai of this partnershiD,'
^usincss for our accotln

which you
t. Checks

^of tlus'within signatures. / \

■her itenis will be subject to the conditions
reby ac'snowledgcs receipt of notice of said

Title ^

P;n-tncrrhii1

D;..-

Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 2-B

p|;4^B-i-M-3.59-97-c BESSEMER BRANCH

lE^iRST National Bank of Birminghaivi.birmingham, ala.

^^ Tho li.indling by thU ottice o( ihecks, drafo and oiticr items will be aubject lo iho conditioot shown on
4QW rovrrao cU!o hereof, and tho depositor hereby BcknovvIcdi;c] receipt of notico of said coudilions and contcau
wad ftgret;9 lo tM bound thereby.

Title X-.//;

■ ,';, ■

'—■'

Sff

;nia';

■/^

Incorporate

Phone

-//

Date //

^

COUNTERSIGNATURES

The t-i
this Corpo.
Checks, drafts,

///f/ic

(I, aro tho duly authorizcj
it of funds and the tranff:c

.of the 'Within .inentioned signatures.

I^J

ff

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3083

Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 2-C

BRANCH J^(eSJ<^^gr^\
tlONAt B ANK OF Bi RMiNgHAM.BmMmSHiCM, aua.

i^J^o^ .ii^Pfil

i^

Phone

Mr. Weltner. The record will show that the signature cards have
been handed to the witness for his examination.

Mr. Stephens, after examining those, will you tell this committee
whether or not that is your signature ?

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. James K. Whitefield, whose name was added to the
signature card of March 17, 1965, is he the exalted cyclops of the
Klavern ?

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. In October 1964, did you know Eugene Thomas to be
the Klaliff or vice president of the Realm of Alabama, and James R.
"Whitefield to be the kligrapp or secretary ?

Mr. Weltner. Is that the Grand Klaliff ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir ; Grand Klaliff and the grand kligrapp.

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. And the office of Grand Klaliff would be equivalent
to State vice president. Is that correct, Mr. Appell ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stephens, do you know Robert Creel to be the Grand Dragon of
the State of Alabama at present ?

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of Mr. Stephens.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Stephens, what is the Young Men's Social Club
of Huey town, Alabama ?

3084 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. ■

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. For what purposes were the checks which have
previously been exhibited to you issued to Eugene Thomas and W. O.
Eaton?

Mr. Stephens. Sir, I respectfnlly decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. The documents previously submitted to the witness
for examination will be entered in the record at this point.

If there are no further questions, this witness will be excused.

Mr. Appell. Herbert Eugene Reeves.

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you w'ill give
in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

Mr. Reeves. I do.

Mr. Weltner. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF HERBERT EUGENE REEVES, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record.

Mr. Reeves. Herbert Eugene Reeves.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by comisel ?

Mr. Reeves. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501 First
Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Reeves, are you appearing here today in accord-
ance with a subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, at 1805
Second Ave. S., Birmingham, Alabama ?

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Reeves. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Reeves, the subpena served upon you contained
an attachment, wdiich was made a part of the subpena, and under the
terms of the subpena, you were commanded to bring with you and to
produce documents set forth in paragraphs 1 and 2 of the attachment.

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also
known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Eastview
Klavern #13, in your ijossession, custody or control, or maintained by you or
available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Eastview Klavern #13
of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America.
Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1 of the
subpena, I ask you to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
any and all documents demanded by the committee upon subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might
tend to incriminate and violate my rights as granted to me by — guar-
anteed to me by amendments 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Constitution of the
United States of America.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3085

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all rec-
ords as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14,
1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject
under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry
within the scope authorized to be investigated by the Rules XI of
the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by the House Resolution 8,
adopted January the 4th, 1965.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, can we stipulate that this witness
has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement and is
familiar with the content?

Mr. Chaliniers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And that the directions in the subpena to produce
documents called for are made to the witness in the official representa-
tive capacity as described in the subpena?

Mr. Chauviers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Reeves, the committee does not accept your rea-
sons for failure to comply with this subpena, and accordingly, as
chairman of this subcommittee, I order and direct you to produce those
documents at this time.

Mr. Ree\t:s. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents therefore ordered — heretofore ordered by the chairman,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltner. I further give you the opportunity to present any
reason to this committee why you may be unable to produce the docu-
ments identified and described in that subpena.

Absent a response, proceed to the next paragraph.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Reeves, paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your i>os-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Eastview Klavern #13 of the United
Klans of America, Inc., Kniglits of tlie Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution
and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you
and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession,
custody or control.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you
to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the chairman
that — to the committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon
the grounds previously stated.

Mr. AVeltner. Do we have the same two stipulations, Mr. Chalmers?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Reeves, I order and direct you to produce the
documents.

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Reeves, committee investigation establishes you
to be the exalted cyclops of Eastview Klaveni No. 13. Is the result
of the committee's investigation factual ?

3086 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Eeeves. I respectively decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel my answer might tend to incriminate me in
violation of my rights as guaranteed to me in amendments 5, 1, 4.
and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Reeves, within the membership of Eastview
Klavem No. 13, is there William Holt, who is the grand kligrapp of
the Realm of Alabama at the present time; Albert Peake, the grand
night-hawk; Leroy Rutherford, holding the rank of major in the
State security guard; Glenn Wheeler, secretary of Province No. 5?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. When and where were you born?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr, Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claimed privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to
the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Reeves.

Mr. Reeves was bom on September 11, 1929, in Huntsville, Alabama.
He has a 9th grade education and has been employed generally as a
printer since he left school, his most recent employment being a bind-
mg foreman with the Commercial Printing Company of South Bir-
mingham, Alabama.

According to a news account of June 9, 1963, in an article over the
byline of Tom Lankford, captioned "JeflPerson men arrested with
weapons near U of A," there is contained the following information :

Six men from Jefferson County were arrested just outside tlie University—

and this is bylined from Tuscaloosa —

just outside the Universiity campus Saturday night with an assortment of pistols,
nifeiiLoLi^u-o, uiiu i^ayuucts in tiieir autos.

*******

Arrested were William Ross Keith, 34, 201 11th St., Robinwood ; Herman F.
Cash, 44, 804 Tuscaloosa Ave., Birmingham; Herbert Reeves, 33, 5728 33rd St.
North, Birmingham ; Gary Rowe, Jr., 23, of Ninth Court West, Birmingham ;
Charles Cagle, 22, Birmingham Rt. 9, and Ellis R. Denesmore [D-e-n-e-s-m-o-r-e] ,
61, 1864 16th St. North, Birmingham.

C. W. Russell, assistant public safety director, quoted the men as saying they
were KKK officials * * *.

(Document marked "Herbert Reeves Exhibit No. 1" follows:)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

3087

Herbert Reeves Exhibit Nc. 1
[Birmingham, Ala., News. }une 9, 1963]

Jefferson inen arrested
with weapons near U of A

BV TOM LANKFORD

Nfw. nUd •riU-r
TUSCALOOSA. .Iiiiif »-Six men
(mm .IcUcrsnn Cnunly were ar-
rrslcd ju^l oulsiric Ihc I'nivcrMly
rompun Saliirday nighl wilh an
• vMirtmcnl of pi>^lols mchlMiclu
and hH)oncU in Iht-ir aulos

Slnlc Public Safety Director Al
Linen .laid the men were en route
lo a Klan rally He said they were
charged with violating the State
Firearms Act.

KfHh,

(etf were William Ko^i
M. Ml nth "St.. Robin-
nSo3-. Herman F. Cash. U. M*
Tuiic«l<H>«r^ve.riftlrnilni(tiBm:
UetlKrl Rfe%r». OJ, JTM Urd
.Si. .^orm. itirmlnKham; Gary
Rowp Jr.. 23. o( NInUi ^ourl
T^fir. RirmlnKham: Charles
C aclr. tt . nirmingham"T[T. I,
tnJ (jllii Vnyiesmajf. *l. iet4
16lh sl.~N'orlh, Btrminfham.

C W. RUSSELL. assisUnt pub-

tafety director, quoted th«
men a« saying t hey wcie ^KKK
offirials and were Koing lo

police" the rally held on the U. S.
HiRhw.iy II bypann 50uthwe«l irf
Tuscaloosa

Russell s.tid state trooperi> had
prior information that the armed
men were on their way hfre and
rwidblock.s were set up Two of the
were wearing pistols and two
(her pistoU wert found in the

STATE TROOPERS SEIZE WEAPONS FROM BIRMINGHAM MEN
MaJ. Bankhead Bates, left, and C. W. Russell, assistant director of public

»atet>, survey arsenal ^aiso found were four bayonfts.
niphtslick5. and a cotton hook

■^\

^r

it

Clie arrested men were traveling
a two cars, hearing .Jefferson
< Two M the oeeupania In one
jl the can sere wearinK while
^nilormt l>e«riiig^JQaa. " .l«ii > «t«
>ilh epaulettes wi

JjCrofx burned

!{ ABOUT 3,000 persons attended
lie Klan rally held on private
property just off the bypass.
Many of the spectators were
^men and small children.
-iA gigantic cross, about 60 feet
tall with 40 foot arms, enwrapped

2 burlap baps, was Ignited lo
ckotf the rally
.•About fiO newsmen, some of
t{iem with elaborate sound gear
wid cameras, were wnrmly wel-
turned by RofaeU Shallan. grand
(kagon of Ate KKK In Alabanw

KKAN Bl'RNS HUGE CROSS NftAR TUSCALOOSA
. . . Robrd Klansmcn circle flaming 60-fuot cross

behiad • fUl bed semi traclor-
tnller truck and gave them
•ogiesltoDS on possible pbo«*-
graiihs ahd other Instnictioiis.
He\sked Ihem not lo take pic
lures of faces, only backs.

About 200 robed Klansmen,
many of Ihem wearing hoods over
their faces, were present.

Calvin Craig, head of _ Ihe At-
lanla TCta n. w<is opening speaker.
CfflHTTxtended thanks to the
"greatest man in Alabama"—
Ckiv George C Wallace— for his
r aland.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4-

3088 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. ArPELL. On April 30, 1964, Robert Thonicas, the province titan,
appointed Gene Eeeves as the new exalted cyclops of Eastview Klavern
No. 13, replacing Ronald Tidwell in that position.

Mr. Weltner. One minute.

Is the Gene Reeves referred to Herbert E. Reeves, the witness?

Mr. Appell. Herbert E. Reeves, witness, and Gene Reeves are the
same individual.

On May 14, 1964, it was known that Gene Reeves, together with four
or five members of the Bessemer Klavern, went to Rickwood Field in
Birmingham, Alabama, in order to do some "missionary work" with
Negroes who were attending a baseball game at the integrated pai4^. A
Birmingham policeman had his gini taken away from him by Klans-
men during this activity, but the gun was later returned to him at his
home.

At a weekly meeting of the Eastview Klavern held July 9, 1964, Bob
Morgan and Gene Reeves brought 22 pounds of mackerel and placed
tw^o mackerel each in a jar and left all the jars in a field behind Reeves's
residence to sit in the sun.

The ingredient to be developed w^as to be used as a stink bomb ingre-
dient with the Alabama theater the only specified location mentioned
where the ingredient might be used.

At the weekly meeting of the Eastview Klavern held on June 11,
1964, it was announced that the city of Birmingham would be broken
into four sections, with a squad assigned to each section.

Lowell Rogers would handle the western section; Gene Reeves
would handle the eastern section; Harry Walker would handle the
northern section; and Ronald Tidwell, the southern section. Each
squad leader would have three men assigned to him. Gene Reeves
would continue to handle the "action group."

At a meeting in August of .1964, Gene Reeves and Ronald Tidwell
announced that they were instructing students at Phillips, Ramsey,
and Woodland high schools in the art of jujitsu on Tuesdays and
Wednesday nights at the Klavern hall.

On December 14, 1964, new officers of the Eastview Klavern were
elected, and Gene Reeves was reelected as exalted cyclops.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Reeves possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Reeves, you now have the opportunity, having
heard the sworn statement of "the investigator as to the result of this
committee's investigation, to reply to any portion of that statement.
You may confirm or challenge the accuracy of the information or
explain any part of it or any other matters that this committee deems
relevant. You have that opportunity now.

Absent any rebuttal on your part or further evidence coming to
this committee, we will rely upon the accuracy of that investigation.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Reeves, the counnittee's investigation establishes
that you were a part of the Imperial Klokann Committee, along with
Ralph Roton, Cecil Henson, Eugene Thomas, Madison Hill, and Ron-
ald Tidwell. Is that information factual?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3089

Mr. Appell. As a member of the Imperical Klokann, were you ever
ordered, and did you in fact carry out an order, wliicli related to acts
of intimidation or violence on the part of any citizen or property of a
citizen of tlie State of Alabama i

Mr. Beeves. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

Mr. Appell. In the language of the Klan, is "missionary work" used
to designate acts of intimidation or violence ?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

Mr. Appell. Is the cover name of the Eastview Klavern No. 13 the
Benevolent Brotherhood ?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

Mr. Weltner. Any further questions by the staff ?

Mr. Reeves, are you a member of any organization known as the
Benevolent Brotherhood ?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

Mr. Weltner. What is tlie action group referred to in the investi-
gator's statement, of which you were a member ?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

Mr. Weltner. One or two questions to the investigators.

The klokann committee under the United Klaus of America is a
group within the Klan organization whose function it is to carry out
directives. Is that correct, Mr. Appell ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir, it is. It compares with what we established
to be the "wrecking crews"' in the State of Louisiana. Their functions
are identical.

Mr. Weltner. And the Imperial Klokann Committee for the State
of Alabama is that group of members, Klansmen, who are charged to
carry out the directions of the imperial office, headed by the Imperial
Wizard, Robert M. Shelton ?

Mr. Appell. It is our information, Mr. Chairman, that this Im-
perial Klokann Committee was available for assignments any place
that they might be needed.

Mr. Weltner. Well, let me ask the witness: The sworn testimony
indicates, Mr. Reeves, that you have served as a member of the Im-
perial Klokann Committee. Did you ever carry out any directives or
instructions from Robert M. Shelton, the Imperial Wizard of the
United Klans of America?

Mr. Reeves. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

Mr. Buchanan. No questions.

Mr. Weltner. Any further questions by the staff ?

Mr. Appell. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. This witness will be excused. And the subcommittee
will stand in recess until 10 a.m. on Monday, next week, to meet in this
same place.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., Friday, February 4, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Monday, February 7. 1966.)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES

Part 4

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 196$United States House of Representatives, Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, Washington^ D.C. public hearings The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as reconstituted for the February Y hearings, met, pursuant to recess, at 10:15 a.m. in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C, Hon. Charles L. Weltner (chairman of the sub- committee) presiding. (Subcommittee members: Representatives Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia, chairman; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio; and John H. Buchanan, Jr., of Alabama.) Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and Buchanan. Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, coimsel; Donald T. Appell, chief investigator; and Philip R. Manual, investigator. Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will be in order. The Chair would like to make a part of the record of today's pro- ceedings the direction of the chairman of this committee, the Honor- able Edwin E. Willis, designating as a subcommittee to sit for today myself as chairman, Messrs. Ashbrook and Buchanan. (The order of appointment of the subcommittee follows:) Febeuary 2, 1966. To Me. Francis J. McNamara, Director. Coiumittcc on Vn-Amcrican Activities: Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- sisting of Honorable Charles L. Weltner as Chairman, and Honorable John M. Ashbrook and Honorable John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hear- ings in Washington, D.C. on Monday, February 7, 196G, as contemplated by the resolution adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing hearings concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the United States. Plea.se make this action a matter of Committee record. If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. Given under my hand this 2nd day of February, 1966. /s/ Edwin E. Willis Edwin E. Willis Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities 3091 3092 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ.S. Mr. Weltner. The first witness today is Mr, James McCroskey. Mr. McC^roskey, will you come forward, please? Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. McCroskey. I do. TESTIMONY OF JAMES W. McCROSKEY Mr. Appell. Mr. McCroskey, will you state your full name for the record ? Mr. McCroskey. James W. McCroskey. Mr. Appell. Are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on the 3d day of January 1966 by John D. Sullivan, an investigator of this committee? Mr. McCroskey. I am. Mr. Appell. Mr. McCroskey, when and where were you born ? Mr. McCroskey. March 27, 1909, in Birmingham, Alabama. Mr. Appell. Mr. McCroskey, what is your present employment? Mr. McCroskey. I am the plant manager for the W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company. Mr. Appell. How long have you been associated with the W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company? Mr. McCroskey. Twenty-eight years. Mr. Appell. Mr. McCroskey, during the committee's investigation it was determined that, starting in February of 1965 up to September or August of 1965, a series of acts of violence against individuals and property of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company was carried out. Do you possess knowledge of these acts? Mr. McCroskey. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Can you tell the committee in a brief word what led up to these acts, and also if you have a chronology of the acts by dates and type of acts which have been carried out against the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company ? Mr. McCroskey. I do have the listing, and it was a labor dispute with some of our employees that led up to this strike situation. Mr. Appell. How many local — trade union locals represent em- ployees of the W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company ? Mr. McCroskey. Prior to that time, only one. Currently, there are two. Mr. Appell. And what are the two locals now represented there? Mr. McCroskey. United Steelworkers and the United Brick and Clay Workers. Mr. Appell. The labor dispute to which you referred— was this between the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company and the Steelwork- ers or the United Brick and Clay Workers ? Mr. McCroskey. The Ignited Brick and C'lay Workers. Mr. Appell. Without going into great detail, can you briefly ex- plain to tlie committee tlint wliich led up to the strike to which you referred ? Mr. McCroskey. A small group of our employees identified as in- spectors petitioned the NLRB for an election, for representation by ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3093 the United Brick and Clay Workers. An election was held, and the group certified by NLRB, and a union local was established. After this local was established, the Dickey Company met with representa- tives of this local and their international representatives in an effort to draw up a contract for working conditions and hourly rates. We had several meetings during the latter part of November, during December, and in January, being unable to come to an agreement on the terms of the contract. On February 8, 1965, the Brick and Clay Workers established a picket line in front of our plant. Mr. Appell. The inspectors that petitioned for a bargaining elec- tion, prior to their petitioning for an election, were they considered as supervisory personnel and therefore not within the contract entered into between the W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company and the United Steelw^orkers local ? Mr. McCroskp:y. That is correct. They had been excluded in our contract with the Steelworkers, Mr. Appell. What was the date that the strike vote was taken and the actual date when a picket line was thrown across Dickey Clay property 'I Mr. McCroskey. I don't know the date that the vote was taken, but it was probably prior, a few days prior to February 8. The picket line was established at 6 a.m. on February 8. Mr. Appell. Starting with February 8, can you give to the com- mittee a listing of acts taken against the Dickey Clay Pipe Company ? ^ Mr. McCroskey. Yes. Would you like me to furnish a copy, or shall I read it? Mr. Appell. Well, I would prefer that you read the items into the record and, if you have with you any photographic evidence of the extent of damage against either Dickey Clay property or property of employees of Dickey Clay, that you produce them in evidence as a part of your testimony. Mr. McCroskey. I do have such evidence. This listing does not cover all of the incidents, but it covers most of those major incidents that involved j^roperty damage. Thursday, February 18 — I will just read these as I have them here — damage to -SG-inch pipe couplings, switch pulled on a stack fan, one automobile shot at 4 :oO p.m., and Mr. Appkll. Now this automobile that was shot — this was an auto- mobile of an enemy of Dickey Clay, Avhich employee was not on strike? Mr. McCroskey. Yes. Mr. AVeltxer. All right, that was a car that belonged to a non- striking employee? Mr. ^McCroskey. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltxer. All right, proceed, Mr. McCroskey. Mr. ]\IcCroskey. I do not have a photograph of this particular incident. I have a sheriff's report as to what did occur. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I think that if Mr. McCroskey can supply the sheriff's reports, which go into some detail, that we ac- ^ Correct name W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing Co. 3094 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. cept them and make tliem a part of t'lie record of Mr. McCroskey's appearance. Mr. Weltnkr. The report of tlie slieriff will be entered into the record at this point. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-A" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McCitosKEY. On Friday, February 19, there was an automo- bile shot at 12:15 a.m. This automobile belonged to a nonstriking employee. His name was Tom Cotton. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-B" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McCroskky. On "Wednesday, February 24, we discovered sugar in the gasoline tank of one of our dump trucks. On Sunday, February 28, there was an explosion occurred at 11 p.m. adjacent to our main building and just outside the wall of the electrical power control room. Mr. Appell. May I ask you there that if this exj^losion of dynamite had been placed closer to your electric power control, what damage would the plant have encountered ? Mr. McCroskey. Well, the plant would probably have been out of operation. This was the main control system adjacent to the substa- tion, and all of the switch gear was just inside this wall. Mr. Appell. What was the extent of damage ? Mr. McCroskey. Relatively small. There was a drain pipe lead- ing from the roof that was completely destroyed, two or three sheets of the transite (?) siding of the building was broken and damaged, there was a small hole blown in the ground against the side of the building, and an area about 2 feet square of the brick wall at the base of the building was damaged. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-C" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. Appell. At the time that explosion took place, was any part of the Dickey Clay property immediately accessible to anyone who would enter its grounds? Mr. McCroskey. Yes, even though the plant was remote from the nearest roadways, there was no fencing around the property at any area. Mr. Appell. So that anyone could have come up to the property it- self and lobbed a charge of dynamite that could have detonated at al- most any place that person cared to destroy. Mr. McCroskey. That is correct. Mr. Appell. Getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, because of this and subsequent acts of vandalism or bombings against the property, did Dickey Clay surround its property with fencing? Mr. McCroskey. Yes, we diet. Mr. Appell. And when did you approximately do that ? Mr. McCroskey. This was completed the latter part of July. Mr. Appell. Now picking up with February the 28th, would you continue with the acts of vandalism or other acts against your prop- erty or the property of employees ? Mr. McCroskey. On that same date of the 2Sth, in addition to the explosion, there were two tires cut on one of the trucks or truck trailers that was parked at our loading dock. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3095 On March the 2d, one of our employees, as he left the property, reported that someone hit his car with rocks — and followed him down the highway, and what he thought was shots were fired, but they did not hit his car. On Wednesday, March 3, there w^ere two power shovels apparently shot at with a shotgun and the fuel lines cut on the engines. This equipment belonged to a contractor who stored his equipment on our property. Saturday, March 6, one of our employee's cars was shot at as he left our property, and he found one hole in the trunk of his car. This occurred around"^ midnight. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-D" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McCroskey. On Monday, March 8, another employee's car was shot as he left the plant property. This particular occasion was rather severe; inasmuch as the shot was apparently buckshot, it punc- tured seven holes in this automobile, in the left front fender, as well as puncturing the tire on the left front of his car. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-E." See p. 3126.) Mr. Appell. Mr. McCroskey, I would like to interrupt you at this point. You have talked about Robert Smith's car being shot, Tom Cotton's car being shot, J. Macon's car being shot. Are these employees Negro or white employees ? Mr. McCroskey. These particular ones are colored. Thus far. Mr. Appeli.. Would you please continue and when you deal with an employee, would you advise the committee as to whether or not he was a white or Negro employee ? Mr. McCroskey. Yes. Wednesday, March 10, one of our em- ployees, who was colored, was using the company's station wagon to run an errand, w^as stopped on the road, the glass was broken in the door, the road was blocked, but this employee was able to get around the vehicle and reenter the plant. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-F." See p. 3120.) Mr. Weltner What road was blocked? Mr. McCroskey. The highway in front of our property. Mr. Weltner. The entrance to the plant was blocked? Mr. McCroskey. Not with reference to this incident. It was away from the plant entrance, maybe 500 yards. Mr. Weltner. All right. Mr. McCroskey. On this same date, March 10, some of A. F. James Truck Lines trucks as they entered the plant had windshields and side glasses broken with rocks or bottles being thrown from the picket line. This is not listed on my schedule but this is the sheriff's report of an incident that occurred involving two of A. F. James Truck Lines and a house trailer or automobile trailer that was parked in our plant entrance. Mr. Appell. Does this refer to an incident whereby the trucks were attempting to leave and they w^ere attacked with rocks, and in an at- tempt to return to the property that they struck a trailer which was being used as the strike headquarters? Mr. McCroskey. That is right. 3096 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. ArPELL. Is this the incident which resulted in a complaint being made against the truck drivers, accusing them of an attack upon the individuals in the trailer with an intent to kill ? Mr. McCroskey. Yes. Mr. Appell. And was one of the people in the trailer at that time Collie Leroy Wilkins? Mr. McCroskey. Yes. Mr. Appell, Was Collie Leroy Wilkins ever an employee of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company? Mr. McCroskey. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Was this the first time, to your knowledge, of partici- pation in the activity by Collie Leroy Wilkins? Mr. McCroskey. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Would you continue, Mr. McCroskey? Mr. McCroskey. Pursuing this same subject, I will go following the list. Mr. Appell. Well, you pursue this, if I have not carried it further. Mr. McCroskey. Well, in answer to your last question, there were several occasions in which Wilkins was present on our picket line. Mr. Weltner. Prior to this incident? Mr. McCroskey. Yes. Mr. Weltner. Well, we will put that copy of the sheriff's report concerning the trailer incident in the record at this point. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-G" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. Weltner. Would you move on to your next list, please, sir? Mr. McCroskey, On Thursday, March 11, around 2:40 a.m., the main gas valve was turned off that supplies our plant, and this gas meter is located near the road and was also near the plant entrance in which the picket line was established. This necessitated contacting the utility company and having them to send someone out to turn the meter back on. Mr, Appell, Was any damage sustained to kilns or other Dickey property while this gas was turned off ? Mr. McCroskey. Inasmuch as there was only about a 4-hour delay, there was not any severe damage. It could have been, if it were not handled properly. That was the reason for the necessity of having the gas company to turn it back on, Mr, Appell, All right, sir. Mr, McCroskey, This is a high-pressure system, and a hundred pounds of pressure on this line at that meter, and it is rather dangerous for someone that don't know what they are doing to handle it. On Friday, March 12, our company was able to obtain an injunction against these proceedings, these things that had happened, acts of violence, blocking of driveways, and multiple pickets. Mr. Appell, Did the injunction result in a termination of these acts of violence and other acts ? Mr. McCroskey. Unfortunately, no. Mr. Appell. Would you continue Avith your list ? Mr. McCroskey. On Wednesday, March 17, I was advised of an explosion in the area of our plant, and upon my arrival at the plant area, I investigated and found that an explosive charge had been ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3097 dropped in gas line, some half a mile from our property. This gas valve led to a plant in our area, the Zimmer plant, and it stopped their operations temporarily, but did not affect ours. We assumed that the effort was toward our gas supply. On Friday, March 19, about 4 p.m., three cars, the property of our employees, left the plant, and all three of them were shot with shotgun blasts.^ The owner of one car was Joe Jones, who was a Negro ; another car was Oscar Hinton, who was a Negro ; the third car was Bob New, N-e-w, who was a white man. All of these cars were shot with apparent shotgun blasts that pitted and damaged the paint and, in some instances, broke glasses. (Docunients marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-H" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McCroskey. On Saturday, March 20, there was an explosion on the east side of our kiln building which occurred about 10 :30 p.m. 1 have a report and photograph of the damage. Mr. Weltxer. That will be entered in the record at this point. (Documents marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. l-I" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McCroskey. That is true on most of these instances, I have the sheriff's report on them. On Monday, March 22, there were two explosions. One occurred on our property, one occurred on the power company's right-of-w^ay property, a short distance from our plant area. There is a report and one photograph of this incident. (Documents marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-J." See p. 3121.) Mr. Appell. Was the explosion on the power company right-of- way — was this an attempt to destroy the poles which were carrying power into your plant ancl to other plants in that area ? Mr. McCroskey. We have to assume that it was. It did occur, and we do get our source of power from that line. Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Mr. McCroskey. On Friday, April the 2d, it w^as reported that ap- parent rifle shot was shot from the road toward our building, making a small hole through the transite siding of the wall. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-K" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McCroskey. On Friday, April 9, there was two explosions that occurred on our property, just a few seconds apart. One was thrown through a window and landed on top of our large continuous kiln, doing some damage to the kiln, and some slight damage to the building. The other charge was placed in a hack of 8-inch pipe and destroyed and damaged quite a number of pieces of the same. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-L" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. McC^RosKEY. On Wednesday, May 26, there was an explosion that occurred inside of this large continuous kiln. We assumed that this charge was placed on one of the cars that traveled through the kiln and did not explode until such time it reached the hotter area, wliich was around 300 degrees, before it exploded. 3098 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. It- did considerable damage to the cars and to the kihi structure it- self, as well as the product on the cars. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-M'" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr, McCroskey. On Thursday, June 13, our most severe explosion occurred, and we think that this charge was also thrown through a window of the building. It went under the kiln, did extensive dam- age to the kiln and to the kiln building. (Document marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-N" and re- tained in committee files.) (Several photographs attached to various of the sheriff's reports. Exhibits 1-A through 1-N, showing damage done at various times follow :) Photos From James McCroskey Exhibits Nos. 1-A— 1-N Photographs showing damage to cars of four Dickey Clay employees as result of shot- gun blasts on dates indicated on photos. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3099 Photos From James McCroskev Exhibits Nos. 1-A—l-N— Continued y/Q^ 6S S/2,e/^^ Photographs showing some of damage done at Dickey Clay plant as result of explosions on dates indicated on photos. Mr. McCroskey. As a result of this continued violence that had been goin^ on for several months, the Dickey Company employed some special off-duty deputy sheriffs from our area and used them con- tinuously at night for the purpose of security, until they were recently released. As we mentioned earlier, because of this violence also, we felt it nec- essary to enclose our plant property wdth a fence, and we did, com- pleting it during the later part of July. Mr. Appell. AVhat did it cost Dickey Clay Manufacturing Com- pany to erect this fence around its property ? Mr. McCroskey. Approximately$10,000.

Mr. Appell. Did that erection of the fence eliminate the damage to
Dickey property ?

Mr. McCroskey. I don't know if it was the comj^letion of the fence
or whether it was the employment of the deputies, but except for one
other incident, the violence did stop.

And that other incident occurred on August 9. And as mentioned
earlier, this gas meter that supplies our plant is located near the road-
way that runs in front of our plant, which is a county road, and an

3100 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

explosive charge was thrown from a ))assing automobile toward the
meter and apparently struck the fence and dropped to the ground.
There was some explosion that knocked a hole about 2 feet in diameter
in the ground.

The deputies that investigated found three sticks of dynamite that
had not been exploded and pieces of what they determined were four
more sticks that were not exploded. How^ many were actually ex-
ploded, we don't know.

Mr. ArPELL. Did it appear from the investigation conducted by the
sheriff's department that a package of sticks of dynamite, when thrown
apparently for the purpose of clearing the fence, struck the fence, and
the package broke apart, which resulted in not. all of the sticks
exploding?

Mr. McCroskey. That is correct.

Mr. Appell. Does tliat com])lete the listing of acts against the
property or employees of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company ?

Mr. McCroskeiy. Yes, it does.

Mr. Appell. In addition to this, were you advised from time to time
of threats, telephone threats, against employees or management dur-
ing this period of labor dispute?

Mr. McCroskey. Yes, as this matter progressed, some of the em-
ployees that were involved with the Brick and Clay Workers took the
position that tliey were willing to resign from the local union, and
requested reinstatement. They did this on two or more occasions.

On one occasion, I decided that we would reinstate several of these
employees and advised them to report for work at such-and-such a
time. Some of this contact was by telephone. These employees had
phoned me and stated that they would return and, later in the night,
phoned me and said that they had received numerous telephone calls
from women, stating to them that if they did return to work that their
homes would be bombed.

And as a result of that, none of these employees that had requested
reemployment or reinstatement returned to work.

Mr. Appell. Mr. McCroskey, tJie committee's investigation estab-
lished that, during the time that this Avas going on, James AVliitefield,
an employee of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company, was the
exalted cyclops of the Klavern known as Bessemer Klavern IS^o. 20 and
known further by a cover name of the Young Men's Social Club.

Was James Whitefield covered by either the United Steel contract
or by the contract of the Brick and Clay Workers?

Mr. McCroskey. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Was James Whitetield employed during this period of
time ?

Mr. McCroskey. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Did he remain continually employed from the start of
tlie strike until its termination ?

Mr. McCroskey. No.

Mr. Appell. Did he go out or leave his employment in sympathy
with the strike, even though he was not a member of either of the
locals ?

Mr. McCroskey. He told me that he would prefer not to cross the
picket line.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3101

Mr. Appell. Is his brother, William Whitefield, also employed by
the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company ?

Mr. McCroskey. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Was he covered by either the Steelworker contract or
the Brick and Clay Worker contract?

Mr. McCroskey. Pie was covered by the Brick and Clay Workers.

Mr. Appell. What part did William Whitefield play in the activi-
ties against either employees, nonstriking employees of the plant, or
the plant of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company?

Mr. McCroskey. He was present quite often on the picket line. It
had been reported on several occasions that he had thrown rocks at
employees, that he had followed trucks and employees' automobiles

Mr. Appell. Did you ever have discussion with those who were lead-
ing the strike with respect to the acts of violence against nonstriking
workers or the company plant?

Mr. McCroskey. I did during the early stages of this work stop-
page, discussing with both International Brick and Clay Worker rep-
resentatives, stating — I stating to them that even though they denied
any connection with these acts of violence that it was my opinion that
they were still responsible.

Mr. Appell. Did they take the position that they were responsible,
or did they deny responsibility of these acts that were taking place?

Mr. McCroskey. They denied responsibility.

Mr. Appell. Did they discuss with you who they thought might
be responsible for these acts ?

Mr. McCroskey. No.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever have a conversation with any of these
people as to the role that members of the Ku Klux Klan were playing
in this act of violence ?

Mr. McCroskey. No.

Mr. Appell. Has the W. S. Dickey Company come to terms with
tlie United Brick and Clay Workers local over its dispute?

ISIr. McCroskey. Yes. This contract Avas signed on Friday, Febru-
ary 5, 1966.

Mr. Appell. What were the terms of settlement as compared to the
terms available for settlement at the start of the contract?

Mr. McCroskey. The contract was finally settled on the basis of
our offer that was made on, possibly in Febiiiary or March of 1965.
Also that we reinstate 1 of these 16 employees.

Mr. Appell. l^Hiat four will be reinstated ?

Mr. McCroskey. Larry Mason, Dale Mason, Norman Davis, and
Elder White.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask
of the witness.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. McCroskey, how many employees were included
in the designation of the bargaining unit represented by the Brick and
Clay Workers?

Mr. McCroskey. Sixteen.

Mr. Weltner. And how many in the unit represented by the United
Steelworkers ?

Mr. McCroskey. Approximately 150.

3102 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Weltner. And how many employees did you have during this
period of time, all together ?

Mr. McCroskey. About 190. That's counting the supervisor group,
office employees, and so on.

Mr. Weltner. I see.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank this witness
for his testimony. You have been very helpful.

Mr. McCroskey. Thank you.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. McCroskey, the committee does appreciate your
coming here today and assisting us. And at this point, I Mould like
to direct into the record those official reports from the sheriff's de-
partments and other documents which are relative to the incidences
and acts previously testified to by this witness.

(All documents available included in James McCroskey Exhibit
Nos. 1-A through 1-N. )

Mr. Weltner. Mr. McCroskey, you are excused. Thank you very
much.

Mr. McCroskey. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I woud like to call Mr. Robert N.
Washington.

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall
give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Washington. I do.

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT N. 'WASHINGTON, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, MICHAEL H. GOTTESMAN

Mr. Appell. Would you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Washington ?

Mr. Washington. Robert N. Washington.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Washington. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Would counsel identify himself for the record?

Mr. Gottesman. Yes, Michael H. Gottesman, G-o-t-t-e-s-m-a-n.

Mr. Appell. Where do you have offices, Mr. Gottesman ?

Mr. Gottesman. In Washington, D.C.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Washington, are you a]>pearing here today in
accordance with a subpena served on you on January -3, 1066, by John
T). Sullivan, an investigator of this committee ?

Mr. Washington. I am.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Washington, when and wliere were you born ?

Mr. Washington. Augusts, 1911.

Mr. Appell. Where, sir ?

Mr. Washington. Where?

Mr. Appell. Yes.

Mr. Washington. Selma, Alabama. That is in Dallas County.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Washington, are you currently president of a local of the United
Steelworkers of America at the W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing
Company in TTopewell, Alabama?

Mr. Washington. That is correct.

Mr. Appell. And how long have you held the office of president?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3103

Mr. Washington. About 16 years.

Mr. Appell. Up to November 1964, was the United Steelworkers
local, of Avhich you are the president, the only local representative of
employees at the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company?

Mr. Washington. That is correct.

Mr. Appell. Was the United Steelworkers membership available to
the 16 employees that petitioned the XLRB for a bargaining election
in behalf of the United Brick and Clay Workers ?

Mr. Washington. We gave them cards, I gave one Charles Gram-
mar 16 cards to sign, and he promised to sign those cards and give
them back to me, that we would get these fellows in our union, but he
didn't do it.

Mr. Appell. Did the United Steelworkers participate in the bar-
gaining election, or was the issue United Brick and Clay or no union?

Mr. Washington. The Ignited Steelworkers did not participate in
the election of this group.

Mr. Appell. Under the terms of the contract between Dickey Clay
Manufacturing Company and the United Steelworkers, the United
Steelworkers could not support the strike of the United Brick and
Clay Workers. Is that t rue, sir ?

Mr. Washington. That is correct.

Mr. Appell. Was this, in fact, known by the people who had called
a strike against the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company ?

Mr. Washington. It was known by them.

Mr, Appell. Therefore, if your employees would have struck, then
they would not have been available — would not have had available to
them either strike benefits funds of the United Steelworkers nor would
they have been eligible for unemployment compensation under State
1 aw. Is that correct ?

Mr. Washington. That is correct.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Appell. Therefore, your employees that continued to work con-
tinued to work, in effect, without choice on their part.

Mr. Washington. That is correct.

Mr. Appell. Did employees w^ho were members of your local have
acts pulled against them by members on the picket line of the Brick
and Clay Workers ?

Mr. Washington. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Were you ever involved or were you ever in an auto-
mobile upon which an act was taken against?

Mr. Washington. Yes. On Friday, March the 19th, I was riding
with Oscar Hinton, and the car tliat he was driving was shot at, shot
upon with apparently a shotgun, at Sparks Gap Road, and of course
we stopped and we didn't see anyone after the shot was made, but we
did go to the sheriff's office in Bessemer and report it.

Mr. Appell. How far from the plant site was this automobile when
it was fired upon ?

Mr. Washington. Approximately three blocks.

Mr. Appell. Did you have discussion with any of the leaders of the
strike of the Brick and Clay Workers about these acts against your
employees ?

Mr. Washington. No.

Mr. Appell. As president of the local, was there justification for
these acts against your employees ?

3104 ACTIVITIES OF KU KL.UX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Washington. We don't think so,

Mr. Appell. In addition to — in your opinion, were these acts against
your employees designed to keep tliem from working ?

Mr. Washington. I think it was.

Mr. Appell. Did these acts against these employees result in other
employees giving up their employment with the Dickey Company, out
of fear or any other reason ?

Mr. Washington. We had no one in our union to give up employ-
ment. There was one man, Tom Cotton, he asked for a transfer to an-
other department that was in the north Birmingham area, but no one
gave up employment because of the acts.

Mr. Appell. Did you possess any knowledge that among the strikers
were individuals who held membership in the Unitwi Klans of
America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ?

Mr. Washington. I do not know of anyone that was in the United
Klans, that were a Klansman. Personally, I don't know of any of
them being Klansmen as such.

Mr. Appell. As president of the local, did you believe that any of
these acts grew out of activities on the part of members of the Ku
Klux Klan?

Mr. Washington. Speaking personally, some of our members of
our union said they saw some of them at midnight around the picket
line, but I did not see any of them.

Mr. Appell, And who were some of those that were observed around
the picket that your members reported to you ?

Mr. Washington. They didn't say that anyone individually by
name, because they were all dressed in their regalias.

Mr. Weltner. You mean to say that Klansmen in robes and masks
were on the picket line, according to what was told you ?

Mr. Washington. That was reported to me. I did not see them,

Mr. Weltner. And during what period of time would that be?

Mr. Washington. That was the fellows that worked the midnight
shift said they saw them up there on the picket line, near the trailer
that they had on the picket line.

Mr. Weltner. And this strike lasted for about a year. And refer-
ring to the acts of violence, they started on February the 8th and con-
tinued through August the 9th of last year, and during that 6-month
period, what portion of time was it that, as reported to you, Klansmen
in regalia were attending the strike headquarters in the trailer?

Mr. Washington. Oh, that was in about April, I believe it was,

Mr. Weltner. And how many times Avas it reported to you that
some of your members liad observed Klansmen in their regalia ?

Mr. Washington. Only twice.

Mr. Weltner. Two times.

Mr. Washington. Tliat is right.

Mr. Weltner. Were those two times close together, or were they

Mr. Washington. I think it was around about a week or two apart
that the reports came to me. I don't know the date specifically.

Mr. Weltner. All right.

Mr. Appell. In addition to the shotgun blasts fired into automo-
biles, did your members report to you receipt of anonymous telephone
calls, threatening them with respect to continued employment?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3105

Mr. Washington. None of our members reported to me anonymous
telephone calls with respect to their going back to work.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever receive any telephone calls ?

Mr. "Washington. I received only one. I didn't attach too much
importance to it, because I had received several before that.

Mr. Appell. What was the content of this call that you received ?

Mr. Washington. The only thing the man said was, and I assume
he handed the telephone to another person, because he said, "Here he
is." He said, '*You had better not cross the picket line," and that was
all.

Mr. Appell. Do you possess any knowledge of other acts, other
than those that were described by Mr. McCroskey, involving members
of your union ?

Mr. Washington. No. I have the list of acts here. The ones that
he stated are the same ones that I know of. As far as I am concerned,
I have only seen the results of the dynamite or explosive. But as far
as seeing anyone doing it, I didn't see them.

Mr. Appell. Has any of your members made any positive identifica-
tion against anyone who did carry out an act against them ?

Mr. Washington. Only on directly on the picket line, there were
rock-throwing. That was directly on the picket line.

Mr. Appell. And to your knowledge, to the information you received
from your employees, were any of these rocks and things thrown by
people not striking employees of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing
Company ?

Mr. Washington. No.

Mr. Appell. Were you familiar with the presence on the picket line
of Collie Leroy Wilkins?

Mr. Washington. No.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to
of Mr. Washington.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Washington, what percentage of your member-
ship in the local union of the SWU is Negro ?

Mr. Washington. Oh, it is about, close to about 90 percent.

Mr. Weltner. Are there any Negro members of the United Brick
and Clay Workers Union ?

Mr. Washington. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Washington, we wish to thank you for assist-
ing us today. You may be excused.

Mr. Washington. All right.

Mr. Weltner. We Avill take about a 3-minute recess.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken. Present at time of recess
and when hearing resumed : Representatives Weltner and Buchanan.)

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will come to order.

Mr. Appell. Mr. James R. AVliitefield.

James R.Whitefield?

Mr. Chamlers. Mr. Whitefield, come up, please.

Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will
give in this hearing will be tlie truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. James Whitefield. I do.

3106 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

TESTIMONY OF JAMES R. WHITEFIELD, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Appell. AVill you state you full name for the record ?

Mr. James Whitefield. James R. AVhitefield.

Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. James Whitefield. Yes.

Mr. Appell. Would counsel identify himself for the record?

Mr, Chamlers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room
501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, are you appearing here today in ac-
cordance with a subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, 2
miles south of the McCalla Post Office on old Tuscaloosa Highway,
McCalla, Alabama?

Mr. James Whitefield. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Whitefield ?

Mr. James Whitefield. I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to
incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by the
amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, the subpena served upon you contained
an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena. Under the
conditions of the subpena, you were ordered to bring with you and to
produce documents called for in two paragraphs. Paragraph 1 reads :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as
the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated
organizations, namley, the Alabama Rescue Service and Bessemer Klavern #20,
Realm of Alabama, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you
or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Bessemer Klavern #20,
Realm of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1. Mr. White-
field, I ask you to produce the documents called for.

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to this
committee any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a
subpena dated on October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel
that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as
guaranteed to me by the amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution
of the United States of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965.
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the considera-
tion of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the
scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted
January 4, 1965.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, may we stipulate that the witness has
been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement and that
he is familiar with the contents ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3107

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. All right, cand that the directions of the subpena to
produce the documents' called for are made to the witness in the official
representative capacity described in the subpena ?

Mr. Chalmers. I stipulate.

Mr. "Weltxer. Mr. Whitefield, the committee does not accept your
reasons for refusing to produce these docmnents, and accordingly, as
chairman of the subcommittee, I order and direct you to produce those
documents at tliis time.

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Weltxer. Mr. Whitefield, I offer you an opportunity, if you
so desire at this point, to present to the committee any reason whereby
you might be unable to comply with the mandate of this subpena.

Hearing no response, Mr. Appell, proceed to the next paragraph.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Wliitefield, paragraph 2 called upon you to pro-
duce:

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in yonr pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or former Exalted Cyclops. Bessemer Klavern # 20, Realm of Alabama
of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the
"Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main-
tained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your
possession, custody or control.

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir

Mr. Appell. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph
2, I ask you to produce the documents called for.

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Weltxer. Do we have the same stipulations on this paragraph ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltxer. Mr. Whitefield, I order and direct that you produce
the documents.

Mr. Ja:mes Whitefield. Sir. I respectfully decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairaian, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, on March 17, 1965, were you the exalted
Cyclops of Bessemer Klavern No. 20?

Mr. Ja3ies Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend
to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by
the amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, I hand you a copy of a signature card
filed witli tlie Bessemer l)ranch of the First National Bank of Birming-
ham, Birmingham, Alabama, whicli is a signature card filed in connec-
tion Avith the ''Young Mens Social Club," P.O. Box 3093, Hueytown,
.Vlabama.

In putting it to you as a fact that this is an account of Bessemer
Klavern No. 20, I hand you this document, and ask you if it is your
signature shown on the card as president?

3108 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document previously marked "Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No.
2-C." See p. 3083.)

Mr. Appell. I ask you if you knew Eobert M. Creel to be Grand
Dragon; Eugene Thomas to be the Klaliff or vice president; Melvin
Sexton to be treasurer; and James R. Whitefield, yourself, to be the
kligrapp or secretary of the Realm of Alabama, United Klans of
America ?

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. I hand you a document entitled "Resolution of Lodge,
Association, or Other Like Organization Designating Depository,''
executed on the 11th day of March 1965, signed "James R. Whitefield,
Secretary,'' which designates the bank [Birmingham Trust National
Bank] as the depository and designates Robert M. Creel, Grand
Dragon, Melvin Sexton, klabee, to be the new signers to that account.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Appell. In handing you the document, I ask you if that is
your signature on that document?

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document marked "James Whitefield Exhibit No, 1" follows:)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3109

James VVhitefiei.d Exhibit No. 1
RESOLUTION OF LODGE, ASSOCIATION, or OTHER LIKE ORGANIZATION DESIGNATING DEPOSITORY

r«..nty Z- ff^/C.SclJ State A' t^'.T'

/! //_JA^^.Ji^ , the Secretary nf ■»4«>-«< ^ <^ ^^ -» i ■ j /J S ' • r " <M .
, do hereby certify that at a meeting

of of the

duly held on the . day of IT^^A/ ^/ . ^9^, at ' ? ^^7

whereat was present a quorum, the following resolutions were unanimously adopted, all as appear on
the minutes of that meeting:

"RESOLVED: That Birmingham Trust Naf.ional Bank, located at Birmingham, Alabama, is here-
by designated as a depository of this ^^^W^^^>1 '^^^^^y^ *"** that a^checking or deposit

account be opened and maintained in the name of this "^^^K^^^C^ Z^--*^^-*^-^ — with said

depository and that, as and when, in the opinion of its Secretary the needs of this i'f^jf^i^y.c i^-H^-^Y-^
require it, a safe deposit box be rented from said depository;

"FURTHER RESOLVED: That all checks, drafts or other orders for the payment of money from

said account shall be signed by the ■y2i'^^*^-<:-^^^:W /cS-^-,^<g*-'^''-<—

_^ , and all notes of this

shall be signed by thp ^^/CtK-^^^/ /''^^^-<!-tg«^---^V ^nd the right to enter the safe deposit box shall be
i n y-^'./l-fi x^<^ ^(LC^%,A.-t^ ^ g„j gny ong of such officers is authorised to endorse aU notes,

drafts, checks, bills, certificates of deposit or other instrument, owned or held by this-^^i^iiSciL

for deposit in said account; /^^-*-<»~^~<^

"FURTHER RESOLVED: That the depository is hereby directed to accept* and pay, without
further inquiry, any draft, or check against said account, bearing the signature or signatures of such
officers as so required, even though drawn or endorsed to the order of any officer signing the same or
tendered by such officer for cashing, or in payment of the individual obligation of such officer, or for
deposit to his personal account, and said Bank shall not be required, or be under any obligation to
inquire as to the circumstances of the issuance, or use of any instrument signed in accordance with the
foregoing resolution, or the application, or disposition of such instrument, or the proceeds thereof;

"FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Secretary shall certify to said Bank the names of the

presently duly elected and qualified officers of this i^^xt-^^^j^c^ ^^^^^'^~'~'^-^' — and shall from

time to time hereafter, as changes in the personnel of said officers are made, immediately certify such
changes to the Bank, and said Bank shall be fully protected in relying on such certifications of the
Secretary and shall be indemnified and saved harmless from any claims, demands, expenses, loss or
damage resulting from, or growing out of, honoring the signature of any officer so certified, or re-
fusing to honor any signature not so certified;

"FURTHER RESOLVED: That the foregoing resoultions shall remain in full force and effect
until written notice of their amendment or recission shall have been received by said Bank, and that
receipt of such notice shall not affect any action taken by the Bank prior thereto; and

"FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Secretary be, and he hereby is, authorized and directed to
certify to said Birmingham Trust National Bank the foregoing resolutions and that the provisions
thereof are in conformity with ^ ^ ■•"

I further certify that the ^ff C^^^^^^^ ^*-^ — ^ ' is the body of the_

■ ■' ■ " ' "ionsand pjjwMs therein gr

authorized to adopt such resolutions and that the resolutionsand pjjwMs therein granted conform to

the rules, by-laws, constitution and articles of this '^^•^*'^"*-^*r ^'^^^^'<^*-'^ now in force and

effect.

I further certify that /he following are the names and official signatures of the present officers

of this ^<> < >^^7^C >r . f^^^^-'^-'*-^ .

Name Title

^^^^, ^u.^ ^..^'jA^ —

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed my name and affixed the seal of this
.this .^ <^ day of - ^fA^^e-f^-JlC^ , x^AX^

^^^..v..^ >ff ^>€^^4^^^-^

^BeewUr y

Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny (he fact, that tlie Eugene Tliomas listed on this account as the
vice president is the man who was involved, along wath Collie Leroy
Wilkins and W. O. Eaton, in the Viola Liuzzo murder?

Mr. James Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

3110 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. I put it to you iis a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that Collie Leroy ^^'ilkins, p]ut!:ene Thomas, and "\V. O.
Eaton were members of Bessemer Klavern No. 20, known as the
Young Men's Social Club, of which you were the exalted cyclops?

Mr. James Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, do you know Mr. James INIcCroskey,
who has testified this morning?

Mr. James Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Do you know Mr. Robert N. Washington, who testified
immediately prior to yourself?

Mr. James Wiiitefield, Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, as the exalted cyclops of Bessemer
Klavern No. 20, did you order members of that Klavern to participate
in acts of violence against Dickey Clay Pipe Company or its striking
employees ?

Mr. James Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the groimds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. As the exalted cyclops, did you order Donald Smither-
man, Collie Leroy Wilkins, W. O. Eaton, Eugene Thomas, to partici-
pate in acts of violence against the Dickey Clay Pipe Company or its
striking employees ?

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the gromids previously stated.

Mr. Appell. What purpose was there in petitioning the NLRB for
a bargaining election on behalf of the United Brick and Clay
Workers ?

Mr. James Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Was the strike which was called designed to economi-
cally affect the employees of Dickey Clay Pipe Company who were
predominantly Negro?

Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertam to James
R. Whitefield.

James R. Whitefield was born on November 27, 1936, at Texarkana,
Arkansas.

Committee investigation establishes him to be the exalted cyclops of
Bessemer Klavern No. 20, which is known as the Young Men's Social
Club, Box 3093, Huey town, Alabama.

This Klavern has been in existence since 1956 and has been affili-
ated with the U.S. Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ;
the Alabama Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Incorporated ; and, since
1962, with the United Klans of America.

Authorized signatures on the bank account maintained at the Bes-
semer branch of the First National Bank of Birmingham have been :
On July 28, 1956, L. J. Praytor, R. R. Fields, and George Houston
(Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 2-A, p. 3082).

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

3111

November 9, 1960, Henry G. McDaniel, Myrtie E[ii^ene] Stephens,
Oscar T. Syx (Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 2-B, p. 3082).

The subsequent card, although undated, Henry G. McDaniel,
M[yrtie] Eugene Stephens, E. A. Harrell, H-a-r-r-e-1-1; the follow-
ing imdated card, Leonard L. Goff, C. O. McCullough or McCullaugh,
and Bob Harrell.

(Documents marked ''James Whitefield Exhibits Nos. 2-A and
2-B," respectively, follow :)

James Whitefield Exhibit No. 2-A

FORM 45.B-1.M-3.59-97.C BESSEMER BRANCH

THE First National bank of Birmingham, Birmingham, ala.

The haodling by ihi. office of check-., ilrafi.
the revcr»e »ido hwcof. and the depositor hercbv «ck
»nd agrcM to bo bound thereby.

and other
.owleti^c.

iii-in^will be subject to the toriditionj shown on
rcceipV of notice of said conditions and conaents

Title ^Acr^y,..-^,! ^' - ' ^^

. . "^ •

f r \ '^<-.- ,(_y Incorporated

' i^r. /"-;■/ J'^/.'-j'^^"^

Local Address . .^ //

\ ■ <^Date

SIGNATURES/

COUNTERSIGNATURES

21.

1/

12

_1_^'
\__/.

ikiJ

-fy/. -"Pox.^-^

SJ}.:^

Trelis. \

' ■ The sienatui lo^this side of, this card, are the duly authorized sit^natures of
this Corporation H lecosuaize in Dayraent of funds and the transaction of other
business for our ulluuhu % \ ^ .• , .

(^liecks. drafts, acccDtunces and not^s must bear ^^'^-^ ^of the within'mentioned signatures.

/

Pres.-Secty.

James Whitefield Exhibit No. 2-B

FORM 4S-Q-I-M-3.37-53.A BESSEMER BRANCH '

THE FIRST National bank of birmingham.birmingham. ala.

The haudliiig by this office of checks, dr.-ift« and other
the reverse side hereof, and tljo depositor hereby ocknowlcdi^cs
and agrees to ba bound thereby./ ^^ , j

IS will ho subject to the
ipt of notice of said cot

anditions shown

Title M ■■ .-
Home QJl

■-{!rCx<t„X'

^lEi^jSZTfejfel

m

Date

SIGNATURES

'^^lArK ^^-^ ■•<

Pres.

V. Pres.

COUNTERSIGNATURES

(L(L

-^-^

Secty.

-^/£

Trcas.

The sinnaturcs appearing on this side of this cnril. are the duly authorized siiniaturcs^ of

this Corporation which yoiTwril recoKiiricln Vayiricnt'of funds and tlie transaction of other
uces and notes must lignr ^\ J ^ ff the within mentioned signatures.

business for our account
Checks, drafts, acccu

3112 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. And the current signature card at the time of the com-
mittee subpena duces tecum, James K. Whitefield, Cecil E. Davenport,
Oscar T. Syx (Myrtie Stephens Exhibit No. 2-C, p. 3083).

The Grand Dragon, Robert M. Creel, as well as his predecessor, Hu-
bert A. Page, both held membership in this Klavern. The member-
ship also included W. O. Eaton, Collie Leroy Wilkins, and Eugene
Thomas, who were involved in the Liuzzo murder,

Eugene Thomas was Grand Klaliff or vice president of the Realm
of Alabama, and an authorized signatory on an account maintained by
the realm in the name of the United Klans of America, which account
was maintained at the Birmingham Trust National Bank.

The realm account w^as opened on October 28, 1964, with the author-
ized signatures of Robert M. Creel and Cecil E. Davenport, These
signatures were changed in 1965 to Robert M. Creel, president; Eugene
Thomas, vice president; Melvin Sexton, treasurer; and James R.
Whitefield, secretary.

(Documents marked "James Wliitefield Exhibits Nos. 3-A and 3-B,"
respectively, appear on p. 3113.")

Mr, Appell. On March 11, 1965, James R, Whitefield, as secretary,
filed with the bank a certificate designating the Birmingham Trust
National Bank as a depository for the United Klans.

In this document, Whitefield certified that at a meeting held on
January 4, 1965, that Robert M. Creel, Grand Dragon, and Melvin
Sexton, klabee, Avere designated signatories to the account.

In 1965, James R. Whitefield, together with his brother, William
Whitefield, was among the leaders in the forming within the W, S.
Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company, Local 827 of the United Brick
and Clay Workers.

This group voted to call a strike against the Dickey Company in
February 1965. During the strike, beginning on February 18, 1965,
close to 25 acts of violence have been carried out against the buildings
and property of the Dickey Company or against nonstriking employees
who are members of the United Steel workers, Local No. 1631.

James R. Whitefield, the exalted cyclops of the Klavern, has utilized
members of his Klavern to carry out these acts of violence and has
used them for picket activities, even though they are not employees
in the Dickey Company,

Committee investigation established that in addition to James R.
Whitefield and liis brother, William Whitefield, both striking em-
ployees who are Klansmen, the following nonstriking Klansmen have
engaged in strike activities: Collie Iveroy Wilkins, W, O, Eaton,
Eugene Thomas, Calvin Green, Jolmnie Lee Burnette, Donald
Smitherman. Other unknown members of the Bessemer Klavern have
been likewise used in this activity.

Bessemer Klavern has a membership of about 65 violence-prone mem-
bers. Members are heavily armed when attending Klavem meetings,
and this resulted in Grand Dragon Creel announcing at a meeting in
April 1964 that, thereafter, Klansmen would not be allowed to bring
firearms into the meetings. He told the majority of the members
who objected that the reason beliind his announcement related to a
possible raid by the FBI. He stated that it would not appear too
well if the FBI collected sa wed-oft' shotguns, pistols, and chains. How-
ever, in spite of the announcement, members continued to come to the
Klavern meetings heavily armed.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3113

James Whitefield Exhibit No. 3-A

:OMMERCtAL ACCOUNT OF

-^^//ec/ /r/f^Ars ^/^/Afc',

/(^'^

BESSEMER OFFICE

BIRMINGHAM TRUST NATIONAL BANK

WILL RECOr.MlZE ONLY THE AUTHORHEO SIGNATURES BELOW. IN THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OR THE
TRANSACTION OF ANY OTHER BUSINESS RELATING TO THE ACCOUNT OF THE UNDERSIGNED DEPOSITOR.
WHO HEREBY AGREES WITH SAID BANK THAT THE CONDITIONS PRINTED ON THE BACK OF THIS CARD
SHALL APPLY TO TRANSACTIONS RELATING TO THE ACCOUNT.

YOU ARE HEREBY AUTHORIZED TO MAIL STATEMENT OF THIS ACCOUNT AS RENDERED TO THE ADDRESS
AS SHOWN.

• paynitjjt of turx

. of the within siRnatureH.

^,46^

S^. ^..u^^

3. ^g<t/ ,^ f^ f - / <-<,? ^^^^

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Address P* 0> Box3093, Hueytown ,y^ Pho„, l|91-3636

Signature of Owner
authorliinn the above

PATE OPENED lQ-28 '-614 FIBIT DFPnmT ■ 126»fl0 DEPOaiT RKCEIVtP lY aklng

James Whitefield Exhibit No. 3-B

ICORPOKATION

BESSEMER OFFICE

UNITED CLANS 01? AMERICA

XA

BIRMINGHAM TRUST NATIONAL BANK

WILL RECOGNIZE ONLY THE AUTHORIZED SIGNATURES BELOW. IN THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OR THE

TRANSACTION OF ANY OTHER BUSINESS RELATING TO THE ACCOUNT OF THE UNDERSIGNED DEPOSITOR.

WHO HEREBY AGREES WITH SAID BANK THAT THE CONDITIONS PRINTED ON THE BACK OF THIS CARD

SHALL APPLY TO TRANSACTIONS RELATING TO THE ACCOUNT.

SEE REVERSE SIDE FOR TERMS OF COLLECTION AGREEMENV UNDER WHICH THIS BANK ACCEPTS ITEMS

FROM YOU FOR DEPOSIT.

YOU ARE HERE>r>U^ORIZED TO MAIL STATEMENT OF THIS ACCOUNT AS RENDERED TO THE ADDRESS

AS SHOWN.

q^/'3C3^

INSTRUCTIONS AS TO SIGNATURE O K'D BY

DATE OPENED

Q^k- t:?^ PI RST DEPOSIT $'^fc S^ DEPOSIT RECEIVED BY c\h^' FORM B-7 James R. Whitefield and his brother William traveled to Jackson- ville, Florida, for the purpose of protecting UKA officers and leaders who planned a rally in Jacksonville, Florida, in November 1964 and who expected trouble from the United Florida Ku Klux Klan organization. 3114 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. The Alabama Klansmen, included members of the Imperial Klo- kann Committee — Robert Thomas, Ralph Roton — as well as Wilkins, Thomas, and Eaton. While in Florida, they discussed the elimination of William Rosecrans, the United Florida Ku Klux Klan member who bombed the Godfrey residence in Jacksonville and who confessed, implicating other members of the United Florida Klan in this action. This infonnation, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. AVhitefield possesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remecli.al legislation. Mr. Weltner, Mr. Whitefield, you have the opportunity at this point to reply to any portion of the statement of the investigator. You may, if you desire, confirm or challenge the accuracy of any part of it or offer any additional matter that the committee deems relevant. The Chair gives you that opportunity at this point. Hearing no response, you .are advised that, absent your rebuttal or any other facts which come to the committee, we will rely upon the accuracy of this investigation. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, I hand you a copy of a registration card at the Capri Motel, Jacksonville, Florida, dated November 21, 1964, indicating that Mr. and Mrs. J. R. Whitefield were assigned Room 335. I hand you this document, .and put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you did register at the Capri Motel in Jacksonville, Florida, as indicated on that registration form. Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document marked "James Whitefield Exhibit No. 4" follows:) James Whitefield Exhibit No. 4 N9 12600 We/come CapriMotel mutt Im <kpe«ll«d in riw offic* soft — otfMrwiM w* or* not One Of The South's Largest and Finest Moteb r»$pen»ibl« for

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CHKK OUT TIME— 12:00 NOON

for flf B*$t In food CAPRI MOTEL RESTAURANT /(J^»< yf / arJAJ DAYli/cCUPlEO SUN. MON. Tun. WD. THUN. FRI. SAT. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3115 Mr. Appell. ]Mr. Whitefield, Avere members of the United Klans of America that traveled to Jacksonville, Florida, along with yourself, lieavily armed with rifles, pistols, and even hand grenades ? Mr. James Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, a report of the Jefferson Comity sheriff's department dated March 26, 1965, states that Randle Strozier, S-t-r-o-z-i-e-r, an employee of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Com- pany, filed a complaint against Harry Findley, F-i-n-d-1-e-y, and Jo- seph Higginbotham, because they had surveilled him from the plant to his home. The report states that upon arrival of law enforcement officers the vehicle was searched and that charges were placed against Harry Findley for violating the Uniform Firearms Act. Do you possess knowledge of this event? Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document marked "James Whitefield Exhibit No. 5" follows:) James Whitefield Exhibit No. 5 ^if-c^o3-^C<^^ MISCELLANEOUS mClOENl REPORT -JLA-^M ^<J X1^ a^^Sc'a. ^<LiA^ a/ Jlfi^^t^ ToG^ .:J } £l^ Mr. Appell. Were Harry Findley and Joseph Higginbotham mem- bers of Bessemer Klavern No. 20 ? Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I i-espectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. 3116 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Whitefield, wliat interest did the Bessemer Klavern No. 20 of the United Klans of America liave in the labor dispute between the Dickey Clay Pipe Manufacturing Company and Local 827 of the United Brick and Clay Workers? Mr. James Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Well, were any members of the Bessemer Klavern No. 20 involved in the picketing activities or any other activities con- ducted by the striking workers at the Dickey Clay Pipe Company? Mr. James AVhitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated, Mr. Weltner. Did you use your position as exalted cyclops of the Klavern to recruit members of the Klavern to participate in strike activities? Mr. James Wiiiit.field. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Buchanan ? Mr. Buchanan. I don't think so. Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused. The subcommittee will now stand in recess until 2 p.uL this afternoon. The meeting is adjourned. (Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives Weltner and Buchanan.) (Whereupon, at 11 :45 a.m., Monday, February 7, 1966, the subcom- mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.) AFTERNOON SESSION— MONDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1966 (The subcommittee reconvened at 2:35 p.m., Hon. Charles L. Welt- ner, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.) (Subcommittee members present: Representatives Weltner and Buchanan . ) Mr. Weltner. The committee will come to order. The Chair will note that the meeting is beginning shortly after 2 :30 rather than 2 o'clock, because of the intervention of a rollcall vote requiring attendance of the members on the floor. Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. Mr.AppELL. William P. Whitefield. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. William Whitefield. I do. TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM P. WHITEFIELD, JE., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Whitefield. Mr. William Whitefield. William P. Whitefield, Jr. Mr. Appell. You are represented by counsel ? Mr. William Whitefield. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Would counsel identify himself for the record? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; Lester V. Chalmers, Jr.j attorney at law, Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3117 Mr. Appell, might I find out the date of this subpena? Not the date of service, but the date of issuance? Mr. Appell. 27 October. Mr. Whitefield, are you appearing before the committee today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on November 1, 1965, at 618 North 15th Street, Bessemer, Alabama, by a deputy United States marshal ? Mr. William Whitefield. Yes, sir, I am. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefipld, when and where were you born ? Mr. AViLLiAM Whitefield. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America — 5, 1, 4, and 14. of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, are you acquainted with Mr. James McCroskey , who was the first witness this morning ? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Are you acquainted with Robert "N. Washington, pres- ident of the Local 1631 of the United Steelworkers ? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. On March 10, 1965, in the course of a strike against the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company, were you in a trailer being used for strike headquarters with James W. Bullock, Leroy Wilkins, and Larry Mason ? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. A\niitefield, as a result of the trailer being struck, did you and others bring a complaint against the driver of the trailer truck, charging him with assault with the intent to kill? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, Collie Leroy Wilkins testified in the preliminary hearing in that matter and, in the course of direct exam- ination, he testified that, and I will quote from his testimony: Q. Were you inside the trailer, or where were you? A. Yes, sir, I was inside the trailer. Q. What were you doing inside tlie trailer? A. Sitting down playing a game of cards. Q. Who all was inside the trailer? A. Bill Whitefield and J. W. Bullock. Is Collie Leroy Wilkins' testimony, as given in that pretrial exam- ination, truthful? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, 1 respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Docmnent marked "William Whitefield Exhibit No. 1'" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, I i)ut it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that at the time of the strike action you were a member of Bessemer Klavern Number 20 of the United Klans of America. 3118 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, did you know an employee of the Dickey Company, Hughie Maxwell Bloodsworth? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. In connection with an injunction brought against the union and its members with respect to the picketing and the violence at the plant, Hughie Maxwell Bloodsworth gave a statement to the effect that he left the company plant on March 8, was followed by a white 1960 Ford, accompanied by three men and a woman, and that he was told that he should not return to work, and in. the course of stopping his car and talking to him, one of the men in the 1960 white Ford noticed that he had some shotgun shells lying on the floor. They remarked to him that, "I see you've got a shotgun. That don't worry me. I've got a gun, too." Then Mr. Bloodsworth said he pulled back the left side of his jacket — and I could see a revolver in a shoulder holster. I could see the handle and the cylinder. The handle appeared to be brown wood. There was a ring at the butt of the handle, like those on some policemen's and MP's pistols, to tie a string or a lanyard to. * * * Wlio were the occupants of the 1960 white Ford that followed Mr. Bloodsworth, Mr. Whitefield? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, do you know Wallace A. Swanson, an employee of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company? Mr. William Whitefield. I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Do you possess knowledge of whether or not persons supporting the strike action of the United Brick and Clay Workers did, in fact, fire shotguns into the vehicles of nonstriking workers? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. In a sworn statement, signed statement, Mr. Swanson related a story that he heard a shotgun go off and looked in the direc- tion of where the shotgun blast came from and stated in his signed statement as follows : I saw a man in this direction whom I recognized as Jackie C. Gamble [G-a-m-b-1-e] an inspector who is on strike against W. S. Dickey. When I first saw him, he was lowering a firearm from the firing position. As he was lowering it, it was pointed in a northwesterly direction, over across the Road and in the vicinity of the employees' cars which were still passing. Gamble was slightly crouched over and was hidden from direct view from the portion of Sparks Gap Road that the employees' cars were passing by on, by some fallen trees and underbrush. From the point I was, however, it so hapi>ened that I could see him clearly. I observed Gamble there for approximately 10 to 20 seconds. He then cut back into the woods, retracing part of his route, and then circled around further east to get back to Sparks Gap Road. He appeared to be still carrying the firearm. I never did lose sight of Gamble as he circled through the woods. The point he came out of the woods was about 100 feet further east than the picket trailer. At that time, Smitherman and "Whitefield got into Whitefield's car, a 1960 white Ford, and drove down the road to the point where Gamble was just coming out of the woods and picked him up. They then drove east down Sparks Gap-Hopewell Road. Is this story factual ? ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3119 Mr. William Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Do you know an employee, William Palmer of the W. S. Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company ? Mr. William Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Palmer in a signed statement said that on March 9, 1965, he was working at the plant, and three pickets named W. P. Wiiitefield, Jr., Charles Grammer, and Jimmy Wiiitefield, threw rocks at him. Is his statement truthful ? Mr. William Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document marked "William Wiiitefield Exhibit No. 2" and re- tained in committee files. ) Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, Mr. McCroskey testified that one of his employees went out on an errand in a 1959 station wagon, and was stopped by a roadblock. Was a car owned by you and driven by you involved in the roadblock against the company station wagon? Mr. William Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. The sheriif 's report says : 59 Chev. station wagon belonging to Dickey Clay driven by Elmer Lee Skin- ner * * * left plant to pick up parts. On way back near plant — 60 white Ford, IB308.34, driven by Wm. P. Whitefield WM & 2 other men blocked road & broke window in station wagon — 58 Chev. IB10432 driven by James Howell WM stopped behind station wagon — Negro driver was scared & trying to get away backed into James Howell's car & bent grill & bumper. Who were the other occupants of the car which you were driving? Mr. William Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document previously marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-F" appears on p. 3120.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, on March 22, 1965, two bombings oc- curred at the Dickey plant. A report of the sheriff's department reads that : After the two bombings, [P. L.] Misso [M-i-s-s-o] & I [H. M. Johnson, Besse- mer sheriff's office] stopped a '62 Chevrolet in the area of Dickey Clay with two WM's [white males] in it. (1) Raymond C. Myers, the driver & (2) Collie L. Wilkins, 4005 10th Way, Fairfield * - *. Did these two participate in any way with those bombings, to your knowledge ? Mr. William Wiiitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document previously marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. l-J" appears on p. 3121.) 59-222 O— 67— pt. 4- 3120 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-F CONTINUATION SHEET (FIELD) JiffERSOK COUHn SHERIFF'S OEPARTHEKT .i^-OL 1^ ^.^^. p„.„,..,..,..„„„.. x^^'ii^g.ui: ^-C few^ ^ V ^ ^^ -^ ; ^ r'Xc. . / A" /.-■ ^.. ? -i- /^. v>~. A ,Qt^^^^.// ^^-^^^ /^, /^^^^^^/ AV^ . / frC/^^-,. -y"'^' ^ / - -./r/-/A^^^- Mr. iVppELL. The report further states that at 11 : 45 p.m. they stopped and checked a green '58 Chevrolet, I.B.-37863, with two passengers in it, one W. P. Whitefield, Jr., and the other Charles Grammer. Did you participate in either of the bombings at the Dickey Clay plant that night ? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Whitefield, was your brother the exalted cyclops of the Kla veni at the time of the Dickey Clay strike ? Mr. William WnirEFiELD. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Do you know the composition of the klokann commit- tee appointed by Bessemer Klavern No. 20 '\ Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, 1 respectfully decline to answer that question, based \\\)0\\ the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Were any of the acts of violence taken against the Dickey Clay Pipe Company or personnel employed by the Dickey Clay Pipe "Company, or Clay Manufacturing Company, rather, by members of tlie Bessemer Klavern No. 20 klokann committee? Mr. WiLLiA3i Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Did you on November 21, 1964, accompany your broth- er and other Klansmen from the Alabama area to Jacksonville, Florida? Mr. William Whitefield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I hand you a registration, copy of a registration card, Capri Motel, Jacksonville, Florida, signed Bill Whitefield, dated No- vember 21, 1904, whicli reflects that Bill Whitefield was assigned Room No. 166. OC W T IK UOW WI » I CW (FIELD1 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3121 James McCroskev Exhibit No. 1-J a^j!.. ^-^^ A///- — o-^^-<^j :^. 2^ £y -71^ e£i/^yy CONTINUATIOH WEET (FIELOt /Ylna 2 2- ^S- J/: 2^-/^. l^tj-Do^ "BCi > n^. r^p^^ ^'A /l/r/^Y ^-^y,_ /^^/^ T^^A uy/ryr^ /a/ //. (^7?^,/. /?- Aii/^>?, ,f/,,n::)f?:uer. ^(Drn///^. /.. ^jalk:^^ ^ac^/o:J' ^. 6. /}U^,7< f^^^ ^^/r^/,^,'U <7^'-^yc/r^ ^^U /?W ////^^iT -r/Tr L^Lo^ /^4j/aycj /<^^//>, /. /ly/^.k }^ J<i l^M^ jTm/ //Mf?k:(OCi^ Thr. /^/. /f.W^ P^> h'L . m^ ^^ . ^ //m J^^^ 1^^ ^.^/i '. gr I ask you if the signature that appears on that card is your signatured Mr. William AViiitofield. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Document marked "William Whitefield Exhibit No. 3" follows:) r3122 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. William Whitefield Exhibit No. 3 We/come All valuoblM mu«t b« cl«pe*itMl Iherwis* we are not '^ """ Capri Motel S — are i ponti 1 loii 'A4. IIOV 2 1 1954^^ 0/ Tke South's Largest and Finest Motels r«,p«n«b!e for — — — — — -^^^^ 7X /.^/ s^J^^HX u^^lQtf^/lo -^M-U^u^c/^ ^_Z^^ DAVS Occupied CmCK OUT TIJME— Y2.-00 NOON for #fc« B*sf in Food CAPRI HOTEL RESTAllRAri' Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of Mr. Whitefield. Mr. Buchanan. No questions. Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused. Call your next witness, please. Mr. Appell. Johnnie Lee Burnette. Mr. Weltnpzr. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give in the hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. BiTRNETTE. I do. TESTIMONY OF JOHNNIE LEE BURNETTE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTEE V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Burnette? Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Burnette. Jolmnie Lee Burnette. Appell. BuRNET^n:. They spell it both ways. Appell. Well, how do you spell it? Burnette. J-o-h-n-n-i-e. Appell. Thank you. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Burnette. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record' Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Burnette, are you appearing here today in accord- ance with a sub])ena served upon you on November 3, 1965, at 2529 22d Street, Hueytown, Alabama ? Mr. Burnette. Yes, sir. Room ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3123 Mr. Appell. When and where were you born, Mr. Burnette ? Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reasons that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Burnette, as a member of Bessemer Klavern No. 20, did you render any aid and assistance to the strikers at the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company plant in Hopewell, Alabama? Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds that are previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Let's ask the witness first if he is a member of Bess- emer Klavern No. 20, United Klans of America. Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Burnette, do you possess knowledge of the bomb- ing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1963? Mr. Burnette. Sir Mr. Weltner. Is that the date of September 15, 1963 ? Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. At a klonvokation of the United Klans of America held at the Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama, on September 5-6, 1964, did you receive four electric blasting caps from the exalted cyclops of the Marietta, Georgia, Klavern of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. As you left that Klavern, or that klonvokation, were you accompanied by Eugene Thomas ? Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Were you for a short period of time surveilled by agents of the FBI? Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Thinking tliat those agents were going to continue to surveille you to a parking lot where 3'our veliicle was parked, did you and Thomas pull pistols in preparing to fire on the FBI agents that were surveilling you? Mr. Burxp:tte. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim or priv- ilege and his consistent refusal to answer questions, I present to the committee the resuUs of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Burnette. Mr. Burnette was born on August 10, 1925, at Piper, P-i-p-e-r, Alnl)aniu. He resides at 2529-22d Street, Hueytown, Alabama. Committee investigation establishes Mr. Burnette to be a member of Bessemer Klavern No. 20, known as the Young Men's Social Club, and a delegate to the 1964 Klonvokation held at the Dinkler-Tutwiler Hotel on September 5-6, 1964. 3124 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. During tliis kknivokation, Burnotte was furnished four electric blasting caps by the EC of the Marietta, Georgia, Klavern. As Burnette, accompanied by Eugene Thomas and another Klansman, left the hotel, they vrere followed by agents of the FBI. The Klansmen drew pistols and were preparing to fire on the agents after the Klansmen had reached a dark section of a lot where they had parked their car. However, the agents discontinued their surveillance prior to this, unbeknownst to the Klansmen. Burnette is known to possess knoAvledge of acts of violence carried out by members of the United Klans of America, including the 16th Street Bajjtist Church bombing in September 1963 and the bombings at the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company. This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Burnette pos- sesses additional information which is both ])ertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting re- medial legislation. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Burnette, you have heard the sworn statement of the investigator. You now have an opportunity to confirm or qualify or explain any portion of that testimony or offer any further information that the committee deems relevant. Do you wish to offer any further matter for this committee's consideration ? Hearing no response, I must advise you that, absent other evidence which will come to the committee, we will rely upon the accurary of this investigation. I would like to inquire of the witness as to whether or not, Mr. Burnette, do you have knowledge of the bombing of the church in Birmingham on September 15, 1963? Mr. Burnette. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, the record does not indicate that this witness is or has been employed by the clay pipe company. Is that correct ? Mr. Appell. To the best of the committee's investigation, the witness has never been employed by Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company. Mr. Weltner. There being no further questions, the witness will be excused. Call your next w^itness, please. Mr. Appell. Donald A. Smitherman. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the answers you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Smitherman. I do. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3125 TESTIMONY OF DONALD ANDREW SMITHERMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Smitherman, Mr. Smitiiermax. Donald A. Smitherman. Mr. Appell. Does the "A" stand for Andrew ? Mr. Smitherman. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Smitherman. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Counsel, will you identify yourself for the record ? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, are you appearing before the com- mittee today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 25, 1965, at the Pullman-Standard Company, in Bessemer, Alabama? Mr. Smitherman. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, are you a member of Bessemer Kla- vern No. 20 of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the ques- tion for the reason that I honestly believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me in my violation of rights as guaranteed to me by the amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States. Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, have you ever been employed by the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company in Hopewell, Alabama ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the ques- tion for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by the amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the' Constitution of the United States of America. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, on March 8, 1965, Alfonza Ragland, Jr., an employee of the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company, at 3:20 p.m. was leaving the plant. And according to a report of the sherilT's department, wlien he reached the picket line, rocks and bottles were throAvn by pickets and a shot was fired which struck the left front fender, just above the wheel, part of the charge striking the tire. What knowledge do you possess of that incident, Mr. Smitherman? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. The supplementary report from the sheriff's depart- ment wliich I read to you stated that after this incident happened a check was made of the picket line, and a report says that : One man present was not an employee of Dickey Clay but stated that he belonged to the same Union. This man was employeed [sic] at the Pullman Plant, Bes- semer. His name and address are: Donald A. Smitherman, lOi Park Ave. or 306 Terrace Court. * * * Ala. Driver's License No. 1875725. Is the report of the sheriff's department factual, Mr. Smitherman? Mr, Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previous stated. (Document previously marked "James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-E" follows:) 3126 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. James McCroskey Exhibit No. 1-E I Shooting Into Auto - Labor tr-juble Sparks Cap Road-Dicky Clay Plant Alfonza RACLAND Jr 3-?-65 3:20 PM #6 Shades Street 3-8-65 i.25 1278 RAOLAND reported by phone to this office that l.ls autonobile had been shot as he was leaving the W. 3. Dickey Clay Mfr Plant where he is employed. RAGLAND had worked the day shift and Juat as h» reached the picket line rocke and bottles were thrown by PlcVets and a shot w=s fire which struck the left front fender lust above the wheel, part of the charge striking the tire. Shot labedded In the tire were buck shot apnarfntly 00. RAGLAND was driving a 1956 Pontiac, i-door, white over blue, license # IB 27599. RAGLAND did not know who fired the shot but thought that it was fired from the trailer used by the pickets. Photo,^ranhs taken by Sheriff J. >.Thoranson J. W, Thoapson Ae the Sheriff March 8 1965 SIIPPI EHENTARY OFFENSE REPORT JEFFERSOW COUNTY SHERIFF'S [i,EPARTNENT Shooting Into Auto 44-OO3-B65 Labor Disturbance Alfonza RAGLAND Jr #6 Shades Street Bessemer 425 127^ After checking auto of Victim a check was made of the picket line and the nanies obtained of all present. List is attached. One man nresent was not an emcloyee of Dickey Clay but stated t^iat he belonged to the same Union. This man was emoloyeed at the Pullman Plant, Bessemer. His name and address are : Donald A Snitherman 1C4 Park Ave or 306 Terrace Court * HA!» 49A7 Ala Driver's License Nol 1875725 Even tho Mr S'-'.ITH£.Ri>.AN is not an employee of Dickey Clay he ar.pearred to be taking a very active -lart in the picket line. He was advised that it would be to the best interest of the men on strike for him to leave. Sec. Eng. Guard B. R. WRIGHT, 111 Pine Ave, Hueytown, P,.one 491 3127, wa on duty at the tL-ne of the shooting of RAGLAND'S auto and stated that the shot came from the wooded area across the road from the picket line. Mr. WRIGHT further stated that he saw and identified a white male as being across the road at the tirr-e the shot, in fact, this white male wss the only per on to rejoin the picket line from across tlie road. Tiiis man was Jackie Clyde GA.VBLE, Rt 2 Box 619, Rt 3 Box o7G, Alabama Driver's License No. 1647012. □ no J« B. Sexton Jr ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3127 Mr. Appell. As a matter of fact, as an employee of Pullman- Stand- ard, you could not be a member of the United Brick and Clay Workers, because they have no baro-aining rights at Pullman-Standard, do they ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir,' I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. Was your participation in the acts there as a result of orders which you had received as a member of the Bessemer Klavern No. 20 of the United Klans of America ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answ^er that question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, can you advise the committee as to what that pin is in your left lapel ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds j^revious stated. Mr. Appell. That is the lapel pin of a member of the United Klans of America ; is it not ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previous Stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, as a member of the Bessemer Klavern participating in the strike at the Dickey Clay Pipe Company, have you ever fired a shotgini into the car of a nonstriking worker, or have you ever engaged in placing of any of the explosives which have exploded at the plant property ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell, Mr. Smitherman, have members of Bessemer Klavern No. 20 been active in a campaign against the integration of schools, the Bessemer High School in Bessemer, Alabama ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. Did you participate in any Klan activity against that, in the accompaniment of Eugene Thomas ? Mr. Smitherjvian. Sir, I respectfully — — Mr. Weltner. Wait just a minute." Kepeat that question, please? Mr. Appell. Did he participate in any Klan activity in the Bessemer area, accompanying Eugene Thomas ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Smitherman, the Birmingham Post-Herald, Fri- day, September 3, 1965, contains a story with respect to enrollment at the Bessemer High School. On page 2 of the continuation of the story, I read this : Another Klansman, Eugene Thomas, one of the three men charged in the death of a Detroit woman in Lowndes County last Spring, removed his son from Besse- mer High School yesterday, second day of school. A white man accompanying Thomas at the time, Donald Smitherman, 28, of 1004 Park Av., Raimund, was arrested by Bessemer Police Chief George Barron and charged with disorderly conduct and driving without a license. He was released under$1.50 bond.

Is tliat account as I read to you factual, Mr. Smitherman?
Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based upon the grounds previous stated.

(Document marked "Donald Smitherman Exhibit No. 1" follows:)

3128

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Donald Smitherman Exhibit No. 1

{Bnmini>ham (Ala.) Posl-HemU. September 3, 196.")]

in Birmingham —

, Enrollment
In Schools
At 65,373

BY LILLIAN FOSCUE VANN

New books and homework as-
signment.s were the order 'of
business la.sl nisht for studcnls
in five school systems in Jef-
ferson County after the first
complete day of classes yester-
day.

Birmingham schools, opening
a day later than other systems,
scheduled first day of complete
classes today. Enrollment at
the end of the day yesterday ^j
was 65,373 in Birmingham .
schools, a drop of 1060 from the ,
first day's enrollment in 1964. j

Enrollment by the end of the.
first month last year in Bir- .
mingham city schools topped ,
71,000, however, and authorities
predict the end of the next
month wilt see enrollment near- ;
ly at this mark. I

William P. Whitfield Jr.. 23.
Rt. 1, Box 284. McCalla, was ar-
rested Monday near Bessemer
High School for refusing to obey
students ^f,g lawful command of a police

said several applicalioiis for
transfer to while firs! grades
were made by parents of Negro
children yesterday.

At Fairfield. 3834
were enioUed overall, a drop; officer

from 3980 students enrolled the j^ Jefferson Count v schools a
first day of .school m 1964 the total of 23 Negroes were approv-
supeiintendent s office said ^ . j^^ ,,.3,^^^^,. j,^ ^^ ^^.p^.^^,,

Negro students approved for enrollment of 61.911, an increase
transfer included eight in the , ^^ ^2.04.5 over first dav enroll-
seventh grade, 13 in the eighth j^^^^ j^^^ y^y,.
grade, four in the 10th grade ; j^^^ Jefferson ' Count v Board
and three m the senior cla,ss I of Education met in" special
, Bessemer schools reported' ^^^^^^^ yesterday to consider
about 90 per cent complete en- applications for transfer by first
rollment on the first day of the graders and four were approv-
expected 8100 students. Some ^^

4700 of the expected 5200 Negro school authorities said it was
students were registei-ed in Bes- up ,0 parents whether first
semer the first day, include 13 1 graders whose transfers were
at the white junior and senior, approved would start at deseg-

high schools, four in the seventh
grade, six in the 10th and three
in the 12th grades.
State-provided textbooks, for

the most part, were adequate,
but some additional books would
have to be purchased with local
funds, authorities said.

Bessemer school lunch pro-
gram, once thought to be in-
eligible this year for Federal
assistance, does qualify and will
operate as it did last year.
• The system is. in compliance

Birmingham E 1 e m e n t a ry ,\^i^^ Health, Education and Wei

school enrollment totaled 47,302
students and high schools re-
ported 18,071. Included in the
totals were 49 Negro students
attending predominately white
schools. First grade transfers
by Negro students were not
compiled last night.

Fairfield reported 28 Negro .
students enrolled in previously ^
all-white schools and Bessemer
13. Jefferson County schools
reported 24, making a total to
date in all county systems of 114
Negro students in 19 desegregat-
ed schools.

Desegregated Birm i n g h a m
city schools and number of
Negro students attending each
include: Giaymont Elementary,
1; Ensley High, 12; Jones Val-
ley High, 5; Phillips High. 9;
•Ramsay High, 13; West End
High, 2'; and Woodlawn High, 6.
One Negro special student was
admitted to Charlanne part of
Elyton Elementary School.

Applications for transfer are
still being processed for Negro
fi r s t - g r a d ers. Birmingham
schools attorney Reid Barnes

fare Dept. and Department of
Agriculture requirements, the
superintendent. Dr. James 0.
Knuckles, said, while the Civil
Rights Act is tested in Federal
Court in a suit filed by the
Sfemer board.
•Another Klansman
Thomas, one of three men
charged in the death of a
Detroit woman in Lowndes
County last Spring, removed his
son from Bessemer High School
yesterday, second day of school.
A white man accompanying
Thomas at the time, D onald
Smitherman. 28, of 1004 PaiK-av,
Raimiind, was arrested by
Bessemer Police Chief George
Barron and charged with disor-
iderly conduct and driving with-
out a license. He was released
i under $150 bond. ; Wednesday William J).. laUm, another of the KKK members accused in the fatal shooting of Mrs. Viola Liuzzo, removed his son from desegregated Huey- towh High School, week in connection with viola- tions at the opening of school. regated schools today or wait until after Monday's Labor Day holiday and start classes Tues- day. Fourteen seventh graders and four first graders were ap- proved for transfer yesterday, : which added to the eight stu- dents previously approved for transfer in higher grades 1 brought the total in county i schools to 26, but two were not I in school. Desegregated county schools and number of Negro students attending included McDonald's Chapel— 3 first graders; McNeil. 1 first grader and 1 seventh grader; Gra.vsviUe. 2 seventh, graders and 1 ninth grader; -- ' Dixie, 11 seventh graders and 3 Eugene i ninth graders. Hueytown, two senior high students. Mountain Brook schools re- ported an increase in enrollment at three of the city's four Only Crestline School showed a drop, registering 682 students as compared to 735 last year the first day of school. Other Mountain Brook schools and registration the first day in- I eluded Junior High, 1019 stu- Idents, compared to 981 last year; Elementary, 533 as compared to .408:.iiasL_5;eai'. iand BrooJcwaod I Forest, 673 compared to 381 last i year. Tarrant school authorities said school enrollment the first day Jived up to the expected figure of 2000, ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3129 Mr. Appell, Mr. Smitherman, that arrest — was that the only arrest that you have ever had during your lifetime ? Mr. Smithermax. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. In 1957, were you arrested by the Jefferson County sheriff's office as a Naval deserter ? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Ghainnan, the staff has no further questions of this witness. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Smitherman, we are endeavoring to determine what function Bessemer Klavem No. 20 of the United Klans of Amer- ica had in the strike of Dickey Clay Pipe Company. And of course this committee is not concernecl with the implementation of the Labor- Management Relations Act or of the terms of the strike or the griev- ances that might have led to it or the union that might ultimately repre- sent any of the employees of that company, nor are we concerned with the details of the negotiations or the basis for any contract settlement of that labor dispute. We are concerned with discerning whether or not there is any con- nection between the long train of violent acts that took place during last year and the United Khms of America. That is our only concern, and I would ask you to tell this committee, if you will, just what function or what position tlie Bessemer Klavem No. 20 took in that labor dispute last year. Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previous stated. Mr. Weltner. Questions? Mr. Buchanan. Only one, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Smitherman, do you feel that when a group carries out acts of bombings, firing shotguns in automobiles, and rocking and threaten- ing people, they are doing something to help organized labor? Mr. Smitherman. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Buchanan. No further questions. Mr. Weltner. All right, this witness Avill be excused. Call your next witness. Mr. Appell. Curtis O'Neil Doles. Mr. AVeltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. Doles. Yes, sir. TESTIMONY OF CURTIS O'NEIL DOLES, SR., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for tlie record, Mr. Doles. Mr. Doles. Curtis O'Neil Doles, Sr. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Doles. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Would counsel identify' himself for the record? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. 3130 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Doles, are you appearing before the committee to- day in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 25, 1965, at 1820 Alemeda Avenue, Birmingham,' Alabama? (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Doles. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. "Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Doles? Mr. Doles. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Doles, are you a member of the United Klaus of America, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan ? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Doles, I put it to you as a fact that you are a mem- ber of Bessemer Klavern No. 20, United Klans of America, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact. Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Doles, last week, the committee had as a w^itness a one-time member of the United Klans of America, McComb, Missis- sippi, Emery Allen Lee. Are you acquainted with Emery Allen Lee ? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Within the United Klans of America, in McComb, Mississippi, Emery Allen Lee was the Klan's demolition man. Are you the Klan's demolition man for the State of Alabama ? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Appell, so the record might be clear, in your q^uestion, would you kindly state what is meant by the term "demoli- tion man" ? Mr. Appell. A man wdio is an expert in the preparation of imple- ments of demolition — bombs and other implements. Mr. Weltner. I must ask the witness, Mr. Doles, are you familiar with the construction of explosive devices and means of setting them off? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. In October 1964, Mr. Doles, were you in charge of the United Klans of America booth at the Alabam State Fair at Birming- ham, Alabama ? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Doles, do you have an arrest record in the States of Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas ? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. In October 1964, did Imperial Wizard Robert Shelton praise you for being a dedicated Klansman ? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3131 Mr. Appell. Was your arrest record known to Imperial Wizard Shelton at the time he praised you as a dedicated Klansman? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Did you prepare any of the explosive devices used against the Dickey Clay Manufacturing Company? Mr. Doles. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. Mr. Weltner. Does the investigation indicate this witness to be an employee of the Dickey Clay Pipe Company ? Mr. Appell. The record, Mr. Chairman, reflects that Mr. Doles is employed with the Doles Home Improvement Company, Midfield, Alabama. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Doles, you have an opportunity at this time to offer any matter that you feel might be of assistance to this committee and to respond in any way you see fit to some of the questions or the statements that were put to you. Do you wisli to avail yourself of that opportunity ? The witness remaining silent, the record will so reflect. The witness is excused. Call your next witness. Mr. Appell. Eugene Curtis Vann, Jr. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Vann. I do. TESTIMONY OF EUGENE CURTIS VANN, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, please, sir. Mr. Vann. My name is Eugene Curtis Vann, Jr. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Vann. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, are you appearing here today in accordance with a subpena served upon you on October 25, 1965, at Vann & John- son Electric Service, 323 Molton Street, Montgomery, Alabama ? Mr. Vann. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, the subpena served upon you had an attach- ment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the terms of the subpena, you were commanded to bring with you and to produce documents set forth in the attachment which reads as follows : All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, and Lawrence Lodge #610. Klavern, Realm of Alabama, in your possession, custody or control, or main- tained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, 3132 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Lawrence Lodge #610, Realm of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. (Witness confers with counsel.) Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that if I do so, might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all rec- ords as requested by the committee under subpena dated October the 14th, 1965, for the information is not relevant and germane to the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of the authorized to be investigated by Eule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress of the House of Repre- sentatives, No. 8, adopted January 4, 1965. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, do we have the stipulation that this witness has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement and is familiar with the contents thereof ? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. And that the directions of the subpena to produce documents are made to the witness in the official representative ca- pacity described in the subpena ? Mr. Chalmers. As stated in the subpena ; yes. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Vann, the committee does not accept your reasons for refusal to comply with the subpena, and as chainnan of the subcommittee, I order and direct you to furnish the documents called for therein. Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents therefore ordered by the chairman — heretofore ordered heretofore by the committee — ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. You have at this point, Mr. Vann, an opportunity to place into this record any reason why you are unable to comply with the terms of that subpena. There being no response, proceed with paragraph 2, Mr. Appell. Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, paragraph 2 called upon you to produce: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Lawrence Lod.ce #610, Realm of Alabama, of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main- tained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, 1 ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously stated. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3133 Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, we have the same two stipulations with refjard to this paragraph? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltxer. Mr. Vann, I order and direct you to produce the doc- uments called for by the subpena. Mr. Vaxx. Sir, I'respectf ully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, are you the exalted cyclops of a Klavern of the United Klans of America whicli is known by the name Lawrence Lodge No. 610 ? Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me in the violation of any rights as guaranteed to me by the amend- ments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, does this Klavern of the United Klans of America maintain a bank account at The Union Bank & Trust Com- pany, Montgomery, Alabama, under the name, "White Patriots, P.O. Box 7094, Montgomery, Alabama"? Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, the committee obtained the records of this account through subpena duces tecum, and the signature cards filed with this account reflect that an account was opened November 29, 1963, with the authorized signatures of this account being Gene Mims and Eaymond C. Howard ; that these signatures were changed on February 10, 1965, to the authorized signatures or signers Gene Vann and Gene Mims. I hand you the signature cards for your examination, and put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that the Gene Vann whose signature appears on the signature card is yourself. Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Documents marked "Eugene Vann Exhibits Nos. 1-A and 1-B," respectively, appear on p. 3134.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Vann, do you act as a liaison officer for the United Klans of America with the State Government in Montgomery, Alabama? Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi- lege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Vann. Eugene Curtis Vann, Jr., is known as Gene Vann. He is con- nected with Vann & Johnson Electric Service, Montgomery, Ala- bama. He is the exalted cyclops of Lawrence Lodge No. 610, which has maintained a bank account at The Union Bank & Trust Company since 1963 in the name of the White Patriots. The officers authorized to sign checks against the account, effective November 29, 1963, were Gene Mims and Raymond C. Howard, and on February 10, 1965, Gene Vann and Gene Mims. 3134 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Eugene Vann Exhibit No. 1-A CAPITOL HEIGHTS BRANCH Xccoun. Number SIGNATURE CARD Clubs, Associations, Etc, THE UNION BANK & TRUST CO., Montgomery, Alabama T)ie handling by this Bank of checks, drafts and other Items will be subject to the conditions shown 1 the reverse side hereof, and the depositor • " "^ ' ' * ■ " and consents and agrees to be l^owpd hereby. Title lenta and agrees to be l^ownd hereby. Home Office Address T- O. :&p^ 7^^ ?</ Date |\|QV p Q ^qf^'^ Local Address __f__. SIGNATURES __J COUNTERSIGNATURES ^_ QAjj?.. Nature of Business .Wr.~.._v^-'^ _ Introduced by Eugene Vann Exhibit No. 1-B CArr; ^v j:;.;^;t- branch Account Number ^ - _ SIGNATURE CARD Clubs, Associations, Etc. THE UNION BANK & TRUST CO., Montgomery, Alabama The handling by this Bank of checks, drafts and other Items will be subject to the coneUlons shown on the reverse side hereof, and the depositor hereby acknowledges receipt of noUce of said conditions and consents and agrees to be bound he msents and agrees to be bound hereby. Title C/^-^w iHome Office Address J-^Q . A ^y^ '7^9^/' PhoniP^.:^^^ 7^/ \ Local Address }?f c^nr^X^'->rUiyl<. -■ /<? ^C^^>^u^-^ Date.^^PtT^^ /^ / 9C > ^ SIGNATURES J COUNTERSIGNATURES Nature of Business Introduced by See reverse side which is part of this contract Officers of the Klavern, in addition to Gene Vann, are the khiliff, Paul Dennis, Jr.; tlie kli^rapp or secretary, Sylvester Trawick, T-r-a-w-i-c-k; the klabee or treasurer. Gene jAIelvin Minis; the khuld or chaplain, the Reverend John Mitchell ; the kladd or conductor, Alfred E. Edwards; the klexter, Grady E. Harris; the night-hawk, Douglas Cannon ; and the chief of the klokann committee, Raymond C. Howard. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3135 Vami was the speaker, together with Grand Dragon Creel and Im- perial Wizard Shelton, on July 8, 1965, at a rally across the road from Maxwell Air Force Base. Vann berated President Johnson and Ala- bama Attorney General Flowers for their condemnation of the Klan. Vann referred to a Klan committee which was attempting to promote an investigation of the FBI. There was distributed a leaflet claiming that the FBI was harassing an 81-year-old Klansman who is known by the name of Pop Blanton. Committee investigation reflects that the Klan had stationed Blanton in front of FBI headquarters in Bir- mingham for the purpose of embarrassing that agency. Vann has frequent contact with Imperial Wizard Shelton and is believed to be a liaison officer for Shelton around the State capital. Mr. Vann, are the officers of the Klavern that were just read to you in the statement, in fact, the officers of the Klavern as designated? Mr. Vanx. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. This infonnation, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Vann possesses additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in en- acting remedial legislation. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Vann, you have heard the statement of the in- vestigator. You have now an opportunity to offer any matter which you may desire to appear in this record concerning that statement or anything in addition thereto. Do you wish to avail yourself of that opportunity ? There being no response, you understand tJiat this committee, unless there is further evidence or in rebuttal, will rely upon the accuracy of this investigation. What is the White Patriots, Mr. Vann ? Mr. Vann. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Any further questions ? Mr. Appell. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Weltner. The witness will be excused. Call your next witness, Mr. Appell. Mr. Appell. Sylvester Trawick. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Trawick. I do. TESTIMONY OF SYLVESTER TRAWICK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Trawick. Mr. Traw^ick. Sylvester Trawick. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Trawick. Yes. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record ? Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, are you appearing here today in ac- cordance with a subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, at the 59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 16 3136 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Capital Advertising Company, 115 East Jefferson Street, Mont- gomery, Alabama? Mr. Trawick. Yes, sir. Mr. Appeli.. Mr. Trawick, the siibpena served upon you contained an attachment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the conditions of the subpena, you were commanded to bring with you, and to produce, documents described in the attachment, para- graph 1 reading: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Lawrence Lodge #610, Klavern, Realm of Alabama, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or former Kligrapp, Lawrence Lodge #610, Realm of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Trawick. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all different documents as commanded by the committee in its subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Con- stitution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records as requested by this committee under subpena dated October the 14th, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scojje of that authorized to be investigated by Kule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted January 4, 1965. Mr. Weltner. J\Ir. Chalmers, can we have the stipulation that this witness has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. And he is familiar with the contents thereof? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. And the directions in the subpena are directed to the witness to produce the documents in a representative capacity as described in the subpena? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Trawick, the committee does not accept your reasons for refusing to comply witli the subpena, and I hereby order and direct you to produce the documents identified in the subpena. Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by (lie chairman, based upon the grounds- previously stated. Mr. Weltner, You have at this point, Mr. Trawick, if you desire, the opportunity to present to the coiinnittee any reason you may have for being unable to comply with the terms of the subpena. Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents (Witness confers with counsel.) ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3137 Mr. Weltner. There being no response, we will proceed to the next paragraph. Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, paragraph 2 calls upon you to produce : AU books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as present or former Kligrapp, Lawrence Lodge #610, Realm of Alabama of the United Klaus of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be main- tained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. In representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit- tee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previ- ously stated. Mr. Weltner. May we have the same stipulation, Mr. Chalmers ? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Trawick, I order and direct you to produce the documents described in paragraph 2 of the subpena. Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit- tee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, the Constitution and Laws of the United Klans of America sets forth the responsibilities of the kligrapp or secretary. What disposition do you as .secretary of this Klavern make of appli- cations for membership in the Unitecl Klans of America ? Mr. Trawick. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incrim- inate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me my amend- ments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, in preparing the necessai-y documenta- tion to forward per capita dues to the State of Alabama or to the imperial office in Tuscaloosa, do you report the identity of the mem- bers of Klavern ? Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, that you make no report of the identity of members to the imperial headquarters and, further, that the members within your Klavern are known only by a number designation. Mr. Trawick. Sir, I re"spectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, in September, on September 3, 1964, your Klavern, on a check drawn against an account in the name of the White Patriots, The Union Bank & Trust Company, Montgomery, Alabama, wrote a check for$32, payable to Tom Whitehead.

Tom Whitehead, Mr. Trawick, is the exalted cyclops of a Klavern
in Athens, Georgia ; and as these investigations have disclosed, funds
forwarded for the defense of the Klansmen involved in the Penn
murder have been forwarded to Tom Whitehead.

Can you tell the committee what knowledge your Klavern possessed
of the Klan affiliation of these men at the time this check was drawn
and forwarded to Tom Whitehead ?

3138 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

( Check marked "Sylvester TraAvick Exhibit No. 1.")

Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, on June 24, 1965, a check was drawn
against the account of the White Patriots, made in the amount of
$56, and payable to the White Mans Defense Fund. I put it to you as a fact that the White Mans Defense Fund was, in fact, an account whose full designation was "White Mans Defense Fund for the relief of Collie Leroy Wilkins, W. O. Eaton, and Eugene Thomas." What knowledge did the members of your Klavern possess at the time this check was written to the White Mans Defense Fund in the amount of$56?

Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Check marked "Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 2." Exhibits Nos.
land 2 follow:)

Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 1

/^"^ «»r.. .,. f'J- ^f-

" M IT 1 r ^ I KIOT'

VM^/ijLxJ) i^-

J

Monti. «>MKK> Ai.a

Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 2

i P.O. i«% in*,

1 ' t .

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3139

Mr. AppELL. Mr. Trawick, are funds now payable to the Realm of
Alabama payable to Melvin Sexton of the Tuscaloosa, Alabama, area ?

Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Can you explain to the committee why a check pay-
able to Mr. Sexton is deposited by him in an account not a Klan ac-
count, but the account of the Reid Sexton Corporation ?

Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfull}^ decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Check marked "Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 3.")

Mr. Appell. Is there a second Klavern of the United Klans of
America in Montgomery, Alabama?

Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, on March 5th of 1964, a check was drawn
against the White Patriot account, payable to Frank Conway, in the
amount of $26 and the notation on tlie check appears "For Transfer." This was deposited by Frank Conway into an accomit, "Confederate Den # 11." Does the notation "For Transfer" mean a transfer of members of your Klavern to membership in Confederate Den No. 11? Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Check marked "Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 4.") Mr. Appell. Mr. Trawick, on September 25, 1965, a check was drawn against the White Patriots' account, in the amount of$319.50.
This check was made payable to Confederate Lodge #11, which main-
tains a bank account in Birmingham, Alabama, and in which the
signer of this account is Grand Dragon Robert Creel. The endorse-
ment on the reverse of this check reads "Confederate Lodge #11, For
Deposit only U.K.i^. Defense Fund.*'

To what UKA Defense Fund was this $319.50 contributed ? Mr. Trawick. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Check marked "Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 5." Exhibits Nos. 3, 4, and 5 follow:) 3140 ACTrVITIES OF KU KLUX KhAN IN THE U.S. Sylvestkr Trawick Exhibit No. 3 ;»rv^. .«?^*/i:^. D«rO»IT ONLY REIO SEXTON COR?: ^ r '^ yj *, ' • ^- 13. . (ij 3 ■" ■ :. \-r> C£) ■«• ' K-n-^x o;i» "*<J, ^5i?r^ ;ii^' - a.p' .*■•■. ' w - rj# : *- * CO ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 4 3141 £ % • 1 ^ ■ ^ ; •" . St •^- > r' 4 1 ^ < > 1^ ^ < r", 1. ^v. :,*^ - 1 'si Sl ' i m i o ' 4 • rm : o : 1 1l: si 4s O •-• ^, 1:? i5 3142 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Sylvestir Tr.\\vk:k Exhibit No. 5 4' fit ''"i ^' ■ii . i Mr. Weltner. Was this check deposited in an account under the name of Confederate Lod^e #11 ? Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Well, Mr. Chairman, there is an account in the name of the Confederate Lodge #11, maintained at the bank in Birmingham; and in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, tliere is also an account known as the UKA Defense Fund account, and before giving you a definite answer, I would like to check tliat against botli accounts. Mr. Weltner. But there is an account under the name of the Con- federate Lodge #11 ? Mr. Appell. Yes, sir; there is. Mr. Weltner. So there is no cover name for the account of that Klavern, other than Confederate Lodge #11. Mr. Appell. Well, we are talking about two separate organizations. Confederate Den No. 11, whicli is a Klavern in Montgomery, and Con- federate Lodge #11, which is the name of a bank account upon which Robert Creel is one of the signers, in Birmingham, Alabama. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3143 Confederate Den and Confederate Lodge are only similar in that both are instrumentalities of the United Klans of America, Realm of Alabama. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of Mr. Trawick. Mr. WeLiTner. The witness will be excused. Call the next witness. The documents used during the examination of the preceding wit- ness will be introduced into evidence. Mr. xVppell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. Charles Wil- kinson. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Wilkinson. I do. Mr. Weltner. Be seated. TESTIMONY OF CHARLES JERRY WILKINSON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, Mr. Wilkinson? Mr. Wilkinson. Charles Jerry Wilkinson. Mr. Appell. Is that Jerry ? Mr. Wilkinson. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. J-e-r-r-y ? Mr. Wilkinson. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel ? Mr. Wilkinson. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record ? Mr. Chalmers. Lester Y. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law. Room 501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilkinson, are you appearing liere today in ac- cordance with a subpena served upon you on the 26th day of October 1965 in front of 2509 North Ripley Street, Montgomery, Alabama, by a deputy United States marshal ? Mr. Wilkinson. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilkinson, the subpena contained an attachment thereto, wliich was made a part of tlie subpena, and under the con- ditions of the subpena, you were commanded to bring with you and to produce documents described in the subpena, paragraph 1 reading: All books, records, documents, corresix>ndence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Em- pire. United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the T'nited Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Confederate Den, Klavern #11, Realm of Alabama, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Confederate Den Klavern #11. Realm of Alabama of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set fortli in paragrapli 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. 3144 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Wilkinson. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all documents as demanded by tlie committee in a subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records as requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by the House Resolution 8, adopted January the 4th, 1965. Mr. Weltnek, Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chalmers. Our same two stipulations. Mr. Weltner. Same two stipulations with regard to this witJiess. Mr. Chalmer. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Wilkinson, the committee does not accept your reasons for refusing to produce the documents. Accordingly, as chair- man of the subcommittee, I order and direct you to produce the docu- ments described in paragraph 1 at this time. Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit- tee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the gromids previously stated. Mr. Weltner. And I now^ offer you an opportunity to present any reason why you are miable to comply with the requirement of the subpena, if you so desire. There being no response, proceed with the next paragraph. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilkinson, paragraph 2 called upon you to pro- duce: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos- session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Confederate Den Klavern #11, Realm of Alabama of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. In representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the com- mittee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. Same two stipulations, Mr. Chalmers? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Wilkinson, I direct you to produce the documents called for in paragraph 2 of the subpena. Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the commit- tee the documents heretofore ordered by the chainnan, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilkinson, are you presently the exalted cyclops of Confederate Den No. 11, United Klans of America, Knights of the KuKluxKlan? ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3145 Mr. Wilkinson. I respectfully decline to answer that question, for the reasons that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incrim- inate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. I hand you copies of two checks, one dated March 5, 1964, made payable to Frank Conway, and another dated September 24, 1964, made JDayable to "Confederate Den #11." I ask you the purpose for which these checks were drawn. Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. The check of March the 5th shows "For Transfer." Does this relate to a transfer of Klansmen from the LaAvrence Lodge 610 to Confederate Den No. 11 in Montgomery, Alabama, area? Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer this question, based upon the grounds previously stated, (Check previously marked "Sylvester Trawick Exhibit No. 4.'' See p. 3141.) Mr. Appell. The check of September 24, 1964, shows that it was reimbursement for a conference. Explain to the committee what con- ference was held in which this check is a payment of expenses. Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Check marked "Charles Wilkinson Exhibit No. 1" follows:) Charles Wilkinson Exhibit No. 1 NO (^ ^— MONTOOMEPY AlA /' 2. ^' **'*/ '^ »Nlf r PATli^TS ei 38 Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilkinson, it is the duty of the exalted cyclops to form within a Klavern a klokann committee. Could you give the committee the identify of the klokann committee of Confederate Den No. 11 ? Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. To your knowledge, as exalted cyclops, has the klokann committee engaged in any act of intimidation or violence against any citizen in the State of Alabama ? Mr. AVilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, l)ased upon the grounds previously stated. 3146 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Wilkinson, were you born on February 11, 1930, at Georo^iana, Alabama? Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the g-rounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Do you reside at Apartment 208, Hilltop Arms Apart- ments, 600 Montgomery Street, Monto-omery, Alabama ? Mr. Wilkinson. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of this witness. Mr. Weltner. The witness is excused. Call the next witness, please. Mr. Appell. Lewis Edward Perkins. Mr. Weltner. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Yes, sir. TESTIMONY OF LEWIS EDWARD PERKINS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR. Mr. Appell. State your full name for the record, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Lewis Perkins. Lewis Edward Perkins. Mr. Appell. Are you represented by counsel? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Will counsel identify himself for the record? Mr. Chx\lmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room 501^ First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, are you appearing before the committee today in accordance with subpena served upon you on October 26, 1965, at 4004 Fifth Street, East Tuscaloosa, Alabama? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, the subpena served upon you contained an attacliment, which was made a part of the subpena, and under the terms of the subpena, you were commanded to bring with you, and to produce, documents called for in the attachment. Paragraph 1 reads as follows: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated organi- zations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, and Klavern #5, Realm of Ala- bama, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or former Exalted Cyclops, Klavern #5, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Realm of Alabama, of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Lewis Perkins. I respectfully decline to deliver to the com- mittee any and all documents as demanded by the committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason I honestly feel that to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guar- anteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3147 I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records as requested by this committee under subpena dated October the 14th, 1965, for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject mider investigation and the same will not aid the Congress in the con- sideration of any valid remedial legislation, or is such inquiry within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Kule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Kesolution adopted January the 4th, 1965. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chalmers, do we have the same two stipulations? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Perkins, the committee does not accept your reason for refusing to produce documents. Accordingly, I direct and order you to produce documents at this time. Mr. Lewis Perkixs. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the gromids previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins Mr. Weltxer. One minute, please. Mr. Perkins, you have at this point an opportunity to give to this committee any reason why you are unable to produce the documents called for in paragraph 1 of the subpena, if you so desire. There being no response, we will proceed to the second paragraph. Mr. x\.ppell. Mr. Perkins, paragraph 2 calls for you to produce: All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses- sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity as present or former Exalted Cyclops. Klavern #5, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Realm of Alabama of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control. In a representative capacity set forth in paragraph 2, I ask you to produce the documents called for. Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the gromids previously stated. Mr. Weltner. The same two stipulations? Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir. Mr, Weltner. Mr. Perkins, you are directed and ordered to pro- duce the documents called for in paragraph 2. Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, are you acquainted with the fact that the cover name used by the United Klans of America is the Alabama Res- cue Service? Mr. Lewis Perkins. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to in- criminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amend- ments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, I hand you Robert M. Shelton Exhibit No. 25, bills of the telephone com])any, which are addressed to the Ala- bama Rescue Service, care of Lewis E. Perkins, Alston Building, Room 401, Tuscaloosa, Alabama. 3148 ACTrvrriES of ku klux klan in the u.s. I ask you if that Lewis E. Perkins is yourself? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, the first day of the committee's inquiry into the United Klans of America, it was established that the comakers on checks drawn against the account of the Alabama Rescue Service were Robert M. Shelton and T. M. Montgomery, and then later, Robert M. Shelton and James J. Hendrix. Did you know that "T. M. Montgomery" was signed by Carol Long, and did you know that the name "James J. Hendrix" was signed by Mrs. Robert Shelton? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, is Klavern No. 5, of which you are the exalted cyclops, the home Klavern of the Imperial Wizard, Mr. Robert Shelton? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, the committee has a copy of a letter ad- dressed on the letterhead of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, signed by William L. Taylor, General Counsel. This letter states in part : It has come to our attention from various sources that radio-equipped auto- mobiles are being used by terrorist groups in various parts of the South for the purpose of coordinating attaclis on Negroes and civil rights workers. In particular, we have reports that in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, a group has been using radio-equipped automobiles to inform one another of places of public accommodations at which Negroes attempt tO' ohtain service. * * * Listed thereafter are the call letters of certain citizens band radio stations. One of the numbers listed is KDD 6965. (Document marked "Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 1" appears on p. 3149.) Mr. Appell. I hand you an application for a citizens band radio, dated May 27, 1963, signed Lewis E. Perkins, and ask you if you are the signer of that application ? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- rion, based upon the ground previously stated. (Document marked "Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 2" appears on p. 3150.) Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, is the report of the United States Com- mission on Civil Rights to the effect that citizens band radios are used as I read to you ? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Weltner. The question was wliether or not that report is cor- rect, Mr. Perkins. Is this report contained in tlie letter from the Civil Rights Commission correct? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3149 Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 1 UNITED STATES COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS WASHINGTON, D.C. 20425 Mr. Henry Geller ^^^^3^ 3^ ^9^4 Genoral Counsel Federal Conununicatlons Conuniasion New Post Office Building 12th & Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20260 Dear Mr. Geller: It has come to our attention from various sources that radio-equipped automobiles are being used by terrorist groups in various parts of the South for the purpose of coordinating attacks on Negroes and civil rights workers. In particular, we have reports that in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, a group has been using radio-equipped automobiles to inform one another of places of public accommodations at which Negroes attempt to obtain service. Apparently, when a person in one of the cars observes Negroes going into a restaurant a call is sent out to other cars which converge on the scene. We understand that these gather- ings have resulted in acts of intimidation and violence. The following call letters are reportedly being used by these cars: Ij] 6Q 4311 (headquarters call number) L^l KDE 1133 jjcj' KKM 3135 /.aj KDD 1753 ^/jj KDB 3776 iv:i KDE 0356 /y;Q-KlQi\ 1017 isl KDB 4724 /^r^J KDB 0071 ILJ KDE 1975 £,<yJKDB 0050 0] 6Q 3434 l_/s] KDD 2533 [^ KDD 6965 [^y Q KDH 2456 ^ i.?jKDH 2451 IJ-^KDD 4272^ We have also received information that radio-equipped cars are or have been used by teri'orist groups in St, Augustine, Florida, Hinds County, Mississippi and in Southwest Mississippi. We understand that the use of tv/o-way radios for the purposes indicated would constitute a violation of FCC regulations. If so, wo would appreciate being advised of any action your agency may take in these matters. Sincerely yours, William L. Taylor General Counsel ' Committee footnote— Applications for above citizens band radios executed by the following: [1] Robert M. Shelton, Tuscaloosa, Ala.; [2] Sammy Houston Sexton, Holt, Ala.; [3] Silas Seaton, GreeneviUe, Tenn.; [4] Davis Welding & Machine Co. (J. R. Davis). Northport, Ala.; [5] Alice E. Perkins, Tuscaloosa, Ala.; [6] Charles F. Crawford, Greenville, S.C; [7] Charles Larry Oswalt, Northport, Ala.; [8] Lewis E. Perkins, Tuscaloosa, Ala.; [9] Isadore Pizitz, Orlando, Fla.; [10] .„.. ...... ; [11] Page Aircraft Maintenance, Inc., Fort Rucker, Ala.; [12] .,.. ,„. _.„., ; [13] David P, Perkins, Tuscaloosa, Ala.; [14] James G. Moore, Northport, Ala.; [15] Perkins Cab- inet Shop (William O. Perkins), Northport, Ala.; [16] Samuel G. Lande, Jacksonville, Fla.; [17] Linny N. Fulmer, Tuscaloosa, Ala. 3150 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 2 CmZENS RADK) LICENSE o^r ap^l^ CoJln. b.lo., (J) .«»« >„ «» Coa>n.«slo.'. "Riuilo Eq.lp- ,»<. LW. P.r^". or (.1 U> .h. c«. 0< CU« C or CU.. D «.t.o».. ^. "'IWii B. PerklM 1 Clu> -1 .i-iio- 2 roMMBSIOh FILE OQPi ' 1 rOR COMMISSION USE ONLY KDD 6965- CONOlTIOMiOF GR»NT :r;::;^£c^rnr£u^ 1 "•'*--•-"• LEWIS E. PEIWIM8 40CM.5th, St. A* T„-«. n...„.«,„„. , AU0.,.2_. 1963 „d. ,.,.)OOA«EST AUG ? V>6 3 ^,...M=... B, <l»ctl.. .1 *. FEDfBAL COMUKlCATipuS COHIJI^ Tuac«leoM« Ala. - n mja^U. m Ito r.^1. lid. •! Ai. lorn. ,..,.1 b. t(».pl««l 1 ' ":iiT'::.ri":'Z'; -»-□ "ipn; TvsealeoMi Ala. ._._ .o.„ -,., 1 ,»».(„.d, .......d, j.i.,.,.d, , d..p...d '— ' ■— ' °""""" ^iv • rz::r™T'„::':i niS«T'r " •;-.i":.r::r:? :'.t:.r.:L^:r.'" '" ''^°"' i( ». ,«, .... «.«', . ..«,«. 1,... .,* ,k„ 1,. ..,n -a '' \::::s:zi:^BBBxr!:;i^^ o£Mi.fi^Jl-&Mr^.^ S'-xr- ^3 APPUCATION MUST BE SIGNED AND DATED 1 n""''"-. ■U/a flUE SMTUnn HMK « TWS FMM ME PUMSMBU I n°"'rMOF n FM MB misannT. us. code, inu ib, xcthm tmi i Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, under orders of the Klan, have you used your citizens band radio for the purpose of participating in acts of harassment or violence upon any citizens in the Tuscaloosa, Ala- bama, area ? ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3151 Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, you are employed by Gulf States Paper Corporation. How does a citizens band radio affect that employ- ment? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the groimds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' consistent re- fusal to answer questions, invoking constitutional privileges, I shall now read the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Per- kins. Lewis Edward Perkins was born on July 30, 1924, at Bessemer, Alabama. He has an eighth-grade education. He served in the Army from April 28, 1943, to November 27, 1945, with a military specialty of a cannoneer and truck driver. He received an honorable discharge. He is employed by the Gulf States Paper Corporation, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and resides at 4004 Fifth Street, Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Mr. Perkins is the exalted cyclops of Unit No. 5, Tuscaloosa, Ala- bama, the home Klavern of Imperial Wizard Shelton, Melvin Sexton, and Imperial Klaliff W. O. Perkins. Lewis Perkins is one of many Klansmen belonging to Unit 5 that hold licenses to operate citizens band radios who use them in connection with Klan activities in the Tuscaloosa area. Others holding citizens band licenses are Robert M. Shelton, W. O. Perkins, and Sammy Houston Sexton. On January the 20th, 1965, Melvin Sexton ordered a number of Klavern No. 5 members to report to the office of Imperial Wizard Shelton in the Alston Building. In addition to Lewis Perkins, Sex- ton ordered Sammy Sexton, Ollie Hayes, Ray Street, Thomas Estes, Melvin Morris, G. L. Gaddey, Curtis Gambel, Joe Hughes, and James Mosley. Shelton gave those assembled the telephone number of the Reverend P. Y. Rogers, executive secretary of the Tuscaloosa Citizens for Ac- tion Committee. He instructed them to call the Rogers telephone number all night long and further instructed them not to say anything when the telephone was answered. Shelton also ordered them to be at Garner's Steak House, starting at 6 a.m. on January the 21st in order to keep the place full so that there would be no place for Negroes to sit. Telephone bills of the imperial office in the Alston Building are addressed to Lewis in care of Lewis Perkins. Perkins possesses knowl- edge of Klan finances. Mr. Chairman, this information indicates that Mr. Perkins has knowledge which would aid the committee in a consideration of leg- islation. Mr. Weltner. Mr. Perkins, you have an opportunity now to re- spond to this statement or any portion thereof, to confirm it, or to offer any other matter which might be relevant. Do you wish to avail yourself of that opportunity ? Absent any response, we will, unless other evidence comes before the committee, rely upon the accuracy of this investigation. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, are there any depository funds of the United Klans of America, to your knowledge, other than those main- 59-222 O— 67 — pt. 4 17 3152 ACTIVITIES OF KU KDUX KLAN IN THE U.S. tained in the name of the Alabama Rescue Service, at The First Na- tional Bank of Tuskaloosa, Tuscaloosa, Alabama ? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. Mr. Appell. Mr. Perkins, on November 15, 1965, a check cosigned by Imperial Wizard Shelton and James J. Hendrix was drawn in the amount of$2,600. The notation of this check shows that it was pay-
ment in full for a 1963 Chrysler Imperial.

Was there a meeting which authorized the Imperial Wizard to ap-
propriate from the Alabama Rescue Service account the sum of $2,600? Mr. Lewis Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques- tion, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Check marked "Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 3'' follows:) Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 3 .ri \. I JUK FlHST NAi.«>!»A» BAftH 1 Date: November 15, 1965 Pay to the order of: Claud W. Dent Motors, Inc.,$2,600.00

Payment: In full for 1963 Chrysler Imperial

Signed: Robert M. Shelton and James J. Hendrix

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.

Mr. Weltner. The documents used in the course of the inquiry will
be inserted in the record at this point.

Mr. Buchanan ?

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, at the risk of sounding like a broken
record, I would like to reiterate to this witness what I said on the
opening day of these hearings and again on last Friday, the first day
in which we had the Alabama Avitnesses testifying again.

I approach this investigation from the point of view, Mr. Perkins, of
one who loves the South and its people and who understands about
them that an overwhelming majority there deplore acts of violence
and terrorism.

Indeed, such acts, those who commit such acts have demonstrated
themselves to be the worst enemies to the people of the South, creating
a false impression of the people and what they are all over the world,
bringing down the wrath of the Nation upon our heads, in legislation
and otherwise, and playing into the hands of Communist conspiracy
and thereby serving the cause of world communism, both in fomenting

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3153

racial strife and disorder and in providing grist for the Communist
propaganda mill.

In light of that fact, and in light of the fact that, as I have said
several times previously, also, as the chairman has said, he that has
nothing to hide, has nothing to fear, I want to give you one more op-
portunity to tell us something in refutation of all the testimony we
have heard concerning acts of violence and terrorism, concerning
bombings and burnings and beatings and worse, allegedly committed
by individuals and groups connected with Klan organizations, in
various places.

We have had no leader, to my memory, of the Ku Klux Klan at any
level, to tell us anything good about that organization or to refute any
of the charges that have been made, any of the evidence that has been
presented in these hearings.

Now you are the exalted cyclops of the home Klavern of the Imperial
Wizard of the United Klans of America and you ought to be in a posi-
tion to refute or to tell us something good, if you will.

I would like to give you that opportunity, sir.

(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Weltner. The record will show that there is no response from
the witness.

Any further questions by the staff ?

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, one more then, please.

I would just like to say that in light of the fact that Tuscaloosa,
Alabama, has been often referred to in these hearings as the central,
the home office of the United Klans of America, as the location thereof,
I would like to point out it is also the city in which there is located the
main campus of the University of Alabama and that the young men
of coach Paul "Bear" Bryant's first-ranking Alabama football team
are much more representative of the fine people of Alabama than any
members of the United Klans of America that I have met.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Weltner. Any further questions from the staff ?

Mr. Appell. No further questions.

Mr. Weltner. The witness is excused, and the committee will stand
in recess until 10 a.m. tomorrow morning.

( Subcommittee members present at time of recess : Representatives
Weltner and Buchanan.)

(Wliereupon, at 4:20 p.m., Monday, February 7, 1966, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, February 8, 1966.)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES

Part 4

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1%6

United States House of Kepresentatives,

Subcommittee of the Committee

ON Un-American Activities,

Washington, B.C.

PUBLIC hearings

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, as
reconstituted for the Februaiy 8 hearings, met, pursuant to recess, at
10 :15 a.m., in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building, Wash-
ington, D.C., Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas,
chairman ; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio ; and John H. Buchanan, Jr.,
of Alabama.)

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool, Ashbrook,
and Buchanan.

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.

Chairman Willis has designated a subcommittee to interrogate the
witnesses this morning, a subcommittee composed of myself, Joe Pool,
as chairman ; Representative Buchanan ; and Representative Ashbrook.

(The order of appointment of the subcommittee follows :)

February 7, 1966
To : Mr. Francis J. McNamara
Director, Committee on Un-American Activities

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I hereby
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities consisting
of Honorable Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honorable John M. Ashbrook and
Honorable John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hearings in Wash-
ington, D.C. on Tuesday, February 8, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution
adopted by the Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing hearings
concerning the activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the
United States.
Please make this action a matter of Committee record.
If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me.
Given under my hand this 7th day of February, 1966.

/s/ Edwin E. Willis
Edwin E. Willis
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities

3155

3156 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, will you call the first witness ?

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to call at this
time Mr. William Perkins.

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testbnony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so

Mr. William Perkins. I do.

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM OTTO PERKINS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, would you state your full name for the
record, sir?

Mr. William Perkins. William Otto Perkins.

Mr. Manuel. And Mr. Perkins, are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. William Perkins. I am.

Mr. Manuel. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room 501,
First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, is it stipulated that the opening statement
of the chairman has been read by the witness and he understands the
contents thereof ?

Mr. Chalmers. It has been explained to him by me, and I so stipu-
late ; yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right, thank you.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, when and where were you born, sir?

Mr. William Perkins. I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to
incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by
amendments 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Manuel. Where do you currently reside, Mr. Perkins?

Mr. William Perkins. I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to
incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by
amendments 5, 1,4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of
America.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, are you appearing before the committee
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you at 7 :10 p.m. on
the 2d day of November 1965 at 3601 16th Street, Northeast, Holt,
Alabama, by a deputy U.S. marshal ?

Mr. William Perkins. Yes.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, under the subpena served to you, you
were commanded to bring and produce certain articles and documents
in your possession, custody, or control.

Paragraph 1 of that subpena reads :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America. Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated or-
ganizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and the Whiteman's Defense
Fund and Heritage Enterprises, Inc., in your possession, custody or control, or
maintained by you or available to you as present or former Imperial Kligrapp
(Secretary) and pre.sent or former Klabee (Treasurer) of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3157

I request you to produce in your representative capacity stated in
paragraph 1 the documents called for by part 1 of your subpena.
(Witness confers with counsel.)

Mr. Chalmers. May I ask, Mr. Manuel, was that subpena dated
October the 14th, 1965 ?

Mr. Manuel. Yes, it was, Mr. Chalmers.

Mr. William Perkins. I respectfully decline to deliver to the com-
mittee any and all documents as demanded by the committee in a sub-
pena dated October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that
to do so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as
guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of
the United States of America.

Mr. Pool. Hold it just a minute.

Mr. Chalmers. He is not through with his answer yet.

Mr. Pool. He isn't? Oh, all right, go ahead.

Mr. William Perkins. I respectfully decline to deliver to the com-
mittee any and all records that are requested by this committee under
subpena dated October 14, 1965, for that information is not relevant
and germane to the subject under investigation and the same would
not aid the Congress in the consideration of any valid remedial leg-
islation, nor is such inquiry within the scope of that advised (sic) to be
investigated by Rule XI of the rules adopted by the 89th Congress,
by House Resolution 8, adopted January the 4th, 1965.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a direction that the witness
be asked to produce the documents.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, what do you have to present ?

Mr. Chalmers. I think at this point, we enter into stipulations that
we have entered into before with respect to an order by you, before
you order direction,

Mr. Pool. Restate it. I don't know w^hat you are talking about.

Mr. Chalmers. Well, sir, as I understand it, we have heretofore
stipulated that the witness is familiar with the opening statement of
the committee chairman.

Mr. Pool. Yes, we have got that in.

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir ; secondly, that the witness is here and with
respect to the capacity named in the subpena, representative capacity.

Mr. Pool. That is what we stipulated.

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; aren't those the two stipulations that we
have entered into before with, all witnesses? And it is so stipulated
now with respect to this witness, if that satisfies the chairman,

Mr. Pool. That doesn't satisfy the answer to the question though.

Mr. Chalmers. No, sir; no, sir.

Mr. Pool. We are just advised.

All right, it is so stipulated as you said,

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right, now. Then I direct the witness to answer the
question. The committee rejects your answer and orders you to pro-
duce the material asked for under paragraph 1 of the subpena.

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chaimian, based
upon tlie grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. All right, go ahead.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, paragraph 2 of your subpena commands
you to bring forth and produce :

3158 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or former Imperial Klisrapp (Secretary) and present or former
Klabee (Treasurer) of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan, which tlie "Constitution and Laws" of said organization authorize and
require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said organization, the
same being in your possession, custody or control.

I request you to produce in your respresentative capacity stated in
paragraph 2 of the subpena the documents called for in that paragraph.

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the
connnittee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce the documents.

Mr. Pool. The chairman rejects your reasons and orders you to
produce the material asked for under paragraph 2.

Mr. Chalmers. And with respect to paragraph 2, the stipulations
that were entered into with respect to paragraph 1 are so stipulated,
Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. You should have said that before I directed him.

Mr. Chalmers. All right, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right, w4th the stipulations there, I will direct you
again, then. We accept the stipulations. We reject your reasons
given for not answering, and I direct you and order you to produce the
materials and records ordered under paragraph 2 of the subpena.

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. All right, go ahead, Mr. Manuel.

Mr. Manuel. Paragraph 3 of your subpena, Mr. Perkins, orders
you to produce:

Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 1961 through June 30,
1965, filed by you as Imperial Kligrapp (Secretary), present or fonner, and
present or former Klabee (Treasurer) of the Invisible Empire, United Klans,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans
of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

In the representative capacity stated therein, Mr. Perkins, I ask you
to produce the documents called for in paragraph 3 of the subpena.

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, do we have the same stipulations?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right, accepted, and I reject your reasons for not pro-
ducing the records asked for in paragraph 3.

I order and direct you to produce them at this time.

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered by the chainnan, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, paragraph 4 of your subpena commands
you to produce:

Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department,
Internal Revenue Service.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3159

I ask you noAv, sir, to produce the documents called for in paragraph

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to deliver to the
committee the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Pool. That includes the fifth amendment?

Mr. William Perkins. Yes.

Mr. Pool. All right.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, are you currently a member of the
Realm of Alabama, United Klans of America?

Mr. William Perkins. I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reason that I honestly feel that my rights might tend to
incriminate — my answer might tend to incriminate me in violation of
my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the
Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever held any office on the imperial level of
the United Klans of America ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been elected to the position of Imperial
Kligrapp ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, on the results of your investigation, do you
liave any facts on that ?

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer any of my questions, I present
to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to
Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Perkins was born on April 23, 1930, at Tuscaloosa, Alabama. He
currently operates the Perkins Cabinet Shop at 3601 16th Street,
Holt, Alabama. He currently resides on Route 1. Northport, Ala-
bama, and Mr. Perkins is known to have held membership in the United
Klans of America, Incorporated, and has attended United Klan meet-
ings in the past at the Tuscaloosa Klavern No. 5 in Tuscaloosa, Ala-
bama.

William Otto Perkins is listed as a director of Heritage Enterprises,
Incorporated, along with Robert Shelton, Donald Luna, Calvin Fred
Craig, and others. Heritage Enterprises is known to have been estab-
lished by certain leaders of the United Klans of America as a corpo-
rate device to raise money through the sale of insurance, mostly to
Klan members, and other legitimate business ventures. In addition to
being a director of the corporation, Perkins was listed as an assistant
secretary of that company ( Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 12) .

When the United Klans of America applied as a foreign corpora-
tion to do business in the State of North Carolina in July 1965, William
Otto Perkins of 17 Lake Sherwood, Northport, Alabama, was listed
as the treasurer of said corporation.

Raymond Mills, w^ho was the exalted cyclops of a United Klans of
America Klavern in New Bern, North Carolina, turned over to the
committee the charter which was granted to that Klavern by the
imperial office of the United Klans of America.

Signatures on this document are identified as follows: Robert M.
Shelton, Imperial Wizard; James R. Jones, Grand Dragon of the

3160 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Kealm of North Carolina ; and W. O. Perkins, Imperial Kligrapp or
secretary.

Mr. Pool. Just a minute.

Mr. Manuel. Further, Mr. Chairman, investigation by this com-
mittee has established that William O. Perkins was elected to the
office of Imperial Kligrapp, or secretary, of the United Klans of
America on February 9, 1964, at a convention of that organization at
the Tutwiler Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that he possesses addi-
tional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this inquiry
and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial legisla-
tion.

Mr. Pool. Is that all of the statement ?

Mr. Manuel. That is all of the statement right now, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Perkins, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's investigator.

You now have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that
statement, to confirm, admit, or deny or challenge the veracity of the
information. And also, you can use this time to explain or modify
any part of that statement. In addition, you may, if you desire,
offer any other matter the committee may deem pertinent to this
inquiry.

What is your pleasure? Would you like to do any of that?

You don't care to make any further statement along this line.

Mr. Chalmers. Let the record so show, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Let the record so show what ?

Mr. Chalmers. That he does not desire to make any statement.

Mr. Pool. He can't say "no," even ?

You are not going to allow him to say "no", he doesn't care to?

How about taking the fifth amendment ?

Mr. Chalmers. I don't think he needs to take the fiffh. I have
no objections, but there was no question asked.

Mr. Pool. All right, do you have a statement to make ?

Mr. Chalmers. He does not.

Mr. Pool. Are you going to answer me ?

Mr. William Perkins. I respectively decline to answer that ques-
tion for the reason that I honestly feel in my answer might tend to
incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by
amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States
of America.

Mr. Pool. All right, Mr. Perkins, I must inform you that, absent
your rebuttal and other facts that may come to the attention of the
subcommittee, this committee will rely upon the accuracy of this
investigation.

Bearing this in mind, do you have anything further to say ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. All right, from now on, I ask a question, you either
answer it or take the fifth amendment, and don't rely on your lawyer
to do your answering. He is a nice fellow, but I am asking you the
questions.

Go ahead, Mr. Manuel.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3161

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, I would like to show you a photostatic
copy of an application for certificate of authority of the foreign cor-
poration, in this case, the "Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights
Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.," which as the document says, was
incorporated under the laws of the State of Georgia for a period of
85 years on the 20th of February 1961, listing the headquarters of the
organization as Suite 401, Alston Building, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and
this particular document is a photostatic copy of the request to do
business as a corporation in the State of North Carolina.

On page two of this document are listed the following individuals:
Mr. Robert M. Shelton, Suite 401, Alston Building, Tuscaloosa, Ala-
bama, president; Mr. Melvin Sexton, Suite 401, Alston Building,
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, secretary ; Mr. Robert Thompson, vice president,
of "Marbleton," Georgia ; and "Mr. W. O. Perkin," treasurer, 17 Lake
Sherwood, Northport, Alabama.

Mr. Perkins. I show you this document, and ask if you are the
"W.O. Perkin" so listed?

(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 21."
See pp. 1662-1664.)

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Robert M. Shelton listed herein to be
the president of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of America, Incorporated?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Mr. Melvin Sexton to be the secretary of
that corporation ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, has Mr. Melvin Sexton ever been
elected to the position of secretary of the United Klans of America?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been elected to the position of treasurer
of that corporation ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact that on Februai^y 9, 1964, at a convention of the general
membership of the United Klans of America, you were elected to the
position of Imperial Kligrapp or secretary?

Would you explain to the committee, in light of that, how Mr. Melvin
Sexton applies or signs as secretary of the corporation ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr, Manuel. Under what authority do you, Mr. Perkins, sign as
treasurer of that corporation ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, I would like to show you a photostatic
copy of a charter granted by the Imperial Palace of the Invisible

3162 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Empire of the United Klans, Knights of the Ku Khix Klan of Amer-
ica, Incorporated, to a Klavern located at New Bern, North Carolina.

On this copy of this charter, you will see the signatures of Robert
M. Shelton, signing as Imperial Wizard of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans; James R. Jones, signing as Grand Dragon of the
realm; and a signature bearing the name "William O. Perkins, Im-
perial Kligrapp," or secretary.

I show you this document, Mr. Perkins, and ask you if that is your
signature on that photostatic copy ?

( Document handed to witness. )

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Document previously marked "James Jones Exhibit No. 26." See
p. 1765.)

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, I should like to show you a portion of
that photostatic copy, considerably blown up by photographic means,
listing the name William O. Perkins, the signature William O. Per-
kins, and under that signature, there is printed the initals "C L."

I would like to show you this, Mr. Perkins, and ask you if you can
identify for the committee the initials "C L."

( Document handed to witness. )

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, I would like to ask you at this time
whether the initials "C L." stand for the name "Carol Long" ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Carol Long ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, investigation conducted by this com-
mittee has established that one Carol Long has in the past signed the
name "T. M. Montgomery" to checks of the Alabama Rescue Service,
of an account maintained at the First National Bank of Tuscaloosa,
Alabama.

Do you have any knowledge of this, sir ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, at this time, I would like to read into
the record from the Constitution and Laws of the United Klans of
America, Incorporated, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (Robert Shel-
ton Exhibit No. 3), Section 4 of Article X which lists the duties of
the imperial officers and duties of the Imperial Kilgrapp :

IMPERIAL KLIGRAPP: Is the Supreme Secretary and recording officer of
this Order. He shall be the secretary of the Imperial Klonvokation and shall
act as secretary of the Imperial Kloncilium and shall have general supervision
of all the clerical work and workings. He shall keep an accurate account of
the receipts and disbursments. He shall sign all papers, vouchers and other
documents requiring his signature of attestation. He shall prepare and submit
a report of the workings of his office to each session of the Imperial Klonvoka-
tion. He shall furnish the Imperial Kloncilium, when requested, with such in-
formation as they desire with reference to his office. In the event additional
clerical help is needed in the Imperial office it may be secured upon recommen-
dation of the Imperial Wizard and approval of the Imperial Board.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3163

Mr. Perkins, having been elected to the position of Imperial
Kligrapp, have yon performed the duties for the Invisible Empire,
United Klans of America, as outlined in the Constitution and Laws
of that organization?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel, Mr. Perkms, investigation has shown that you were
elected to the position of Imperial Kligrapp on February 9, 1964, and
that subsequent to that election — and incidentally, Mr. Chairman,
according to the constitution, the Imperial Kligrapp holds the position
for 2 years, which would mean that technically, according to the con-
stitution, Mr. Perkins' term of office ends tomorrow.

Investigation of the committee has shown that an additional klon-
cilium or klonvokation of the United Klans w^as held in September, at
Birmingham, Alabama.

Did you, Mr. Perkins, as secretary, keep the records of that
klonvokation ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Where are those records now, sir ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectably decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Are you a candidate for reelection ?

Mr. William IPerkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to show that,
subsequent to the klonvokation held in September of 1964 in Birming-
ham, the rules of the United Klans have been changed and amended
to include the term of office for the Imperial Kligrapp, which now lasts
for 3 years, so that Mr. Perkins has an additional year in his term of
office.

Mr. Perkins, would you please inform the committee of your knowl-
edge of a corporate institution known as Heritage Enterprises,
Incorporated ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Were you ever a director of that corporation?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon tlie grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever buy stock or contribute financially to
that corporation?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
(Question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. In your duty as assistant secretary of that corpora-
tion, did you maintain any of its records?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon tlie grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Did you know Mr. Robert M. Shelton, Mr. Donald
E. Luna, and Mr. Calvin Fred Craig to be also directors of that
corporation?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

3164 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN EST THE U.S.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, did you ever purchase an insurance pol-
icy from Heritage Enterprises, Incorporated ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Did you, as a matter of fact, default on your payment
on one of the policies written by Heritage Enterprises, Incorporated?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan ?

Mr. Buchanan. No, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Manuel. Just a moment.

Mr. Perkins, do you maintain a citizens radio license?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I i-espectfully decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Have you been granted a license by the Federal
Communications Commission to include 10 transmitters?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Is your call sign KDD 2533 ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr, Perkins, I would like to show you a copy of the
Federal Communications Commission citizens radio license listing
your own name, care of Perkins Cabinet Shop, giving the call letters
that I have just mentioned, stating that you have been authorized to
maintain citizens band radios for the period from March 22, 1963, to
March 22, 1968, and listing that you are authorized 10 transmitters.

I hand you this document, and ask you if the information con-
tained thereon is correct ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document marked "William Perkins Exhibit No. 1" appears on
pp. 3165, 3166.)

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, have you ever used citizens band radios
in connection with any Klan activity ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Perkins, the subcommittee has m its possession
a letter from the United States Commission on Civil Rights, to the
Federal Communications Commission, and I will quote a passage of
that particular letter:

It has come to our attention from various sources tihat radio-equipped auto-
mobiles are being u'^ed by terrorist groups in various parts of the South for the
purpose of coordinating attacks on Negroes and civil rights workers.

In particular, we have reports that in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, a group has been
using radio-equipped automobiles to inform one another of places of public
accommodations at which Negroes attempt to obtain service. Apparently, when
a person in one of the cars observes Negroes going into a restaurant a call is
sent out to other cars which converge on the scene. We understand that these
gatherings have resulted in acts of intimidation and violence.

The following call letters are reportedly being used by these cars ; * * *

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3165

William Perkins Exhibit No. 1

"WHn-jai-d. PKBKIN8
DBA PEaKIil^ GABlMkT aauP

ROUTS OMK
MORHiFORT, ALitfiAMA

.0 — n

Tusoal*«s«

(■■OMMISSION FILE OOPV

KD6k2533

iic^^KnTi^^^ir

f Xtr:

....,., '4lAfi^2 J94J
MkR 22 19.68 „.„..k,..,

■^2t.»c^7f ^^^

,n -oE

t-^

A

All Km ». n I. ■. -od. I. *. .»,l.ci>o.tf£<i.cl.d ..k.k

lODmrrTiuT •x'l!.

Tk. «J.c~. ,. J*. .» rf fCtt-. ., .., 1.

TV. •«,« .,1! b..»...X77,ii „,,A^<AtK .h. ,pp

,1 Co-~...«t,o,. C»

APPUCATWN MUST BE SKNED AND DATED

a— — —
n-— - -—

u— 0'- ™

3-15^63
OViier

3166 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

William Perkins Exhibit No. 1 — Continued
WARNING

(SMaMllOH ■•.IHCI

I. Whn m cka^a «BW I

( CommlBSUHi's Rules.

isi-rjps::

^■7.r.r=:-'

■► H jr ^rgr^^gjjsL 'B tf**' ^'*

ril5'i.yL.u i« jUX - sca^-^ifr w w T »»« — " "^

1. Yes

owner - William 0. Perkina
Nature of business activity
Cdbinet making &. Millwork

Location &. Purposes:

Base #2 Business -^

1 in Business AutoJs,obile

1 in Business Truok

3 in Employee's Automobiles

Units to be used for business.

Base #1 home

1 in Business ABtonkblle

lo be used for personal pleasure.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3167

And in the series of call letters listed, Mr. Perkins, is KDD 2533,
which is, according to the record of the Federal Communications
Commission, the call letters assigned to you.

I ask you, Mr. Perkins, if the information that I just read to you
from this letter is correct ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document previously marked "Lewis Perkins Exhibit No. 1."
See p. 3149.)

Mr. Manuel. Do you have knowledge of any other Klansmen or
any other person known to you to be a member of the United Klans
using citizens band radios to promote acts of intimidation or
violence ?

Mr. William Perkins. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that
question, based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manl^el. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, I would like to put in the record here that
this committee, I believe, will go on record as asking the Federal
Communications Commission to investigate this further, and in view
of the fact that this gentleman has taken the fifth amendment in
answer to your questions on this use of the citizens band radio, they
certainly should look into it and see whether or not any illegal use

Let the record so show.

The witness is excused.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, at this time, the staif would like to
call Mr. Fredrick Smith.

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so

Mr. Smith. I do.

TESTIMONY OF FREDRICK GERALD SMITH, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, would you please state your full name,
sir?

Mr. Smith. Fredrick Gerald Smith.

Mr. Manuel. And are you represented by counsel, Mr. Smith ?

Mr. Smith. I am.

Mr. Manuel. Would counsel please identify himself for the
record ?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, Room
501, First Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Pool. Just a minute.

Do we have the same stipulations, Mr. Chalmers, that the witness
has been furnished a copy of the chairman's opening statement when
this hearing started ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. And he is familiar with the contents therein and under-
stands them.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4-

3168 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. That is the stipiihitioii. All right.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, when and wliere were you born?

Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendment 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Pool. Do you seriously think that that would incriminate you,
telling where and when you were bom ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated,

Mr. Pool. And you don't care to cooperate with the Congress of the
United States in this investigation ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Well, your answers definitely show that you are not go-
ing to cooperate, but go ahead, Mr. Manuel, and ask further questions.

Mr. Manuel. Mr, Smith, where do you currently reside?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectively decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, have you ever been a member of the United
Klans of America, Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. Smith. I respectively decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, are you appearing before the committee
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you at 12 :10 p.m.
on the 27th day of October 1965 at Route 1, Fayette, Alabama, by a
deputy U.S. marshal ?

Mr. Smith. Yes.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, paragraph 1 of your subpena commands
you to. produce:

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated orga-
nizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Whiteman's Defense Fund,
in your possession, cu.stody or control, or maintained by you or available to you
as present or former Imperial Klabee (Treasurer) and present or former Im-
perial Kligrapp (Secretary) of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of
the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Mr. Smith, in the representative capacity stated in paragraph 1 of
that subpena, I ask you now to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, are you going to make your stipulation
at this time?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; the same stipulation with this witness as
with respect to all other witnesses that the chairman and myself have
heretofore entered into are certainly stipulated with respect to this
witness.

Mr. Pool. All right.

I direct the witness to answer the question or to furnish the material
as called for in the subpena, paragraph 1.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE XJ.S. 3169

Mr. Chalmers. No, sir; I believe he has not given an answer.

He has not answered yet. I think we are a little premature.

Mr. Pool. All right, go ahead and answer.

Mr. Smith. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents as demanded by the committee in a subpena dated
October 14, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do so
might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
requested by this committee under subpena dated October 14, 1965,
for that information is not relevant and germane to the subject under
investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the con-
sideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry withm
the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Rule XI of the rules
adopted by the 89th Congress, by House Resolution 8, adopted Janu-
ary 4, 1965.

Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, the same stipulations that I have
heretofore entered into with respect to the other Avitnesses I have
represented before this committee are also entered into and stipulated
with the chairman with respect to this witness, with respect to para-
graph 1 of the subpena duces tecum.

Mr. Pool. All right, now the committee rejects the reasons given
and directs and orders you to produce the material and the other infor-
mation that was called for under paragraph 1 of the subpena.

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. I wish to point out at this time that the House of Rep-
resentatives, by an overwhelming vote, a few days ago — I think there
were only 28 dissenting votes — supported the committee's reasons for
rejecting your answer and voted to send the citation to the Federal
attorney to present to a grand jury to see whether or not seven mem-
bers of the Ku Klux Klan are in contempt of Congress.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, paragraph 2 of your subpena calls for you
to produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your posses-
sion, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or former Imperial Klabee (Treasurer) and present or former Im-
perial Kligrapp (Secretary) of the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights
of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said organization
authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer of said or-
ganization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.

In the representative capacity stated in paragraph 2, Mr. Smith,
I ask you now to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
produce.

Mr. Chalmers. Mr. Chairman, the stipulations with respect to this
witness as entered into and stipulated by me as his attorney with

3170 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

respect to paragraph 1 are also stipulated and entered into with
respect to paragraph 2.

Mr. Pool. All right, so stipulated.

I direct the — have you answered? Have you given your answer to
the interrogator?

I direct you to furnish the committee the material and papers that
were called for under paragraph 2 of the subpena.

I direct and order you to present them at this time.

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, paragraph 3 of your subpena calls for you
to produce :

Copies of the U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service. Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 1961 through June 30,
1965, filed by you as present or former Imperial Klabee (Treasurer) and present
or former Imperial Kligrapp (Secretary) of the Invisible Empire, United Klans.
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans
of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Mr. Smith, in the representative capacity listed in paragraph 3, I
ask you now to produce those documents, sir.

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered, upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Do you have a stipulation on that ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; with respect to paragraph 3, the same
stipulation.

Mr. Pool. So stipulated.

I direct you to present to the committee at this time the materials
and information that are called for in paragraph 3 of the subpena.

I direct and order you to present them at this time.

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, paragraph 4 of your subpena calls upon
you to produce:

Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Return," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, Inter-
nal Revenue Service.

I ask you now to produce those documents.

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Pool. Including the fifth amendment.

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, have you ever held an office on the imperial
level of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question for
the reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incrimi-
nate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments
5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3171

Mr. ALA.NUEL. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer my questions, I present to the
committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr. Smith.

Mr. Smith was born on July 16, 1936, at Dearborn, Michigan. He
currently resides on Route 1, Fayette, Alabama, and is employed as a
night inspections and control foreman at Arvin Industries in Fayette,
Alabama.

Smith is an active member of the Tuscaloosa Klavern No. 5 of the
United Klans of America.

Committee investigation has established that Fredrick Smith was
elected Imperial Klabee or treasurer of the United Klans of America
at a klonvokation held on February the 9th, 1964, at the Tutwiler
Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama, and Smith has served as Imperial
Klabee of United Klans of America since the founding of that organ-
ization in July 1961.

Investigation of this committee reflected that in the December 13,
1962, edition of the weekly newspaper Gra'phic of Tuscaloosa, Ala-
bama, an article appeared identifying Fred Smith as a special con-
stable of Justice of the Peace W. E. Johnston.

Smith's job was described as a variety of duties, and he was com-
niissioned to carry a pistol. It is known that Fredrick Smith owns a
pistol and has a permit to carry same.

Smith is known to have attended meetings of Tuscaloosa Klavern
No. 5 at the Klan hall near Cottondale, Alabama, on May 22, 1963, and
January 30, 1963, as well as other meetings during the years of 1964
and 1965.

Investigation has revealed that on June 24, 1964, Fred Smith was
in attendance at a closed meeting of the Tuscaloosa Klavern No. 5,
and Smith indicated that Imperial Wizard Robert Shelton wanted
the antimask law read carefully by the Klan lawyer, as Shelton wanted
some cases brought into court to test the law.

It was also discussed at these meetings that those members who had
gun permits were to wear their guns at the forthcoming Klan rally
to be held at J.C. Park in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, on June 27, 1964,
which was to be an open-air rally, and the public was to be invited.

As of April 17, 1964, it was known that Smith had been traveling
around the State of Alabama at that time endeavoring to solicit new
Klansmen and set up new Klaverns and reactivate old Klaverns and
had been in the area of Dothan, Alabama, recently in that regard.
Also, Smith was known to have visited the vicinity of Greensboro,
North Carolina, in an effort to secure new Klan members in that area.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that Mr. Smith possesses
additional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this
inquiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Smith, you have heard the sworn statement of the
committee's investigator.

Now you have the opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment. You have the opportunity to confirm or deny or challenge the
accuracy of the information or to explain it, or any part of the
statement.

In addition, you may, if you desire, offer any other matter the sub-
committee may deem relevant to this inquiry.

3172 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Do you have a further statement ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Smith, I must inform you that, absent your rebuttal
or other facts that may come to the attention of the committee, this
commitee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.

Bearing this in mind, do you have any further thing to say?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based
upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. All right, go ahead, Mr. Manuel.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, at this point, I should like to read
into the record from the Constitution and Laws of the United Klans
of America, Incorporated. (Kobert Shelton Exhibit No. 8), the duties
of the Imperial Klabee as stated in the Constitution :

IMPERIAL KLABEE : Is the Supreme Treasurer of this Order and is, there-
fore, the custodian of its funds, and he shall countersign all checks with the
Imperial Wizard, and he shall make a full and complete report of his oflBce to
the regular Klonvokation each and every year.

Mr. Smith, I ask you as the elected Imperial Klabee of the United
Klans of America, have you performed the duties outlined in the
Constitution and Laws of that organization?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Where are the records which you, under the Consti-
tution and Laws, are supposed to keep as Imperial Klabee?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, the commite has obtained by subpena
duces tecum the account of the Alabama Rescue Service from The
First National Bank of Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and an examination of
checks issued by the United Klans of America fails to reflect the
name of Fredrick Smith.

Could you explain to the committee why this is ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, do you know an individual named Carol
Long?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Do you have knowledge that Carol Long has signed
the name "T. M. Montgomery" to disbursements made by the United
Klans of America?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Do you know James J. Hendrix ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Do you know that Mrs. Robert Shelton has signed
the name "James J. Hendrix" to checks of the account of the Ala-
bama Rescue Service, that is, the account of the United Klans of
America ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3173

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, Mr. Smith, by what authority are
the names "T, M. Montgomery" and "James J. Hendrix" affixed to
checks of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Maxuel. To your knowledge, do the membership and officers
of the United Klans of America know that Carol Long and Mrs.
Robert Shelton sign the names "T. M. Montgomery" and "James J.
Hendrix" to checks of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon tlie grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, I would like to hand you a copy of a sig-
nature card filed with The First National Bank of Tuscaloosa, Ala-
bama, dated September 24, 1961, on which appears the names "Fred-
rick G. Smith" and "Alvin B. Sisk," giving the address 401 Alston
Building, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the account opened is that of the
Alabama Rescue Service.

I show you this, Mr. Smith, and ask if that is your signature on the
document ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 6."
See p. 1619.)

Mr. Manuel. Has that signature card ever been changed, Mr.
Smith, to reflect other names, even though, according to the commit-
tee's investigation, you have kept the office of Imperial Klabee or
treasurer ?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. When was the last time you ever signed a cheek of the
United Klans of America as Imperial Klabee?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Smith, have you any knowledge of the bombings
^^•hich occurred in the Birmingham, Alabama, area in September of
1963?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Did you participate in the bombing of the 16th Street
Baptist Church on September 15, 1963?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Have you any knowledge of where the Klan obtains
dynamite?

Mr. Smith. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions of
this witness.

Mr. Pool. Do you have questions ?

Mr. Buchanan. This witness was born in Michigan, did you say ?

Mr. Manuel. Dearborn, Michigan.

Mr. Buchanan. Do you have information indicating when he came
to Alabama?

3174 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Maniiel. Our records do not reflect that.

Mr. Buchanan. Thank you.

Mr. Pool. I might make this comment. I wish we had kept a rec-
ord of how many fifth amendments have been taken since the hearings
started in October. I think maybe we have set a new record here.

The witness is excused.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, we would like to call Mr. William
Sexton. William Melvin Sexton.

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

Mr. Sexton. Yes.

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM MELVIN SEXTON, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LESTER V. CHALMERS, JR.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, would you please state your full name
for the record ?

Mr. Sexton. William Melvin Sexton.

Mr. Manuel. Are you known mostly by the name Melvin Sexton ?

Mr. Sexton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Sexton?

Mr. Sexton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Would counsel please identify himself for the record?

Mr. Chalmers. Lester V. Chalmers, Jr., attorney at law, 501 First
Federal Building, Raleigh, North Carolina.

Mr. Pool. Just a minute.

Mr. Chalmers, is it so stipulated that the witness has been fur-
nished a copy of the chairman's opening statement and he understands
the contents therein ?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, when and where were you born, sir?

Mr. Sexton. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5,
1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States* of America.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, where do you currently reside?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, are you appearing before the committee
this morning in response to a subpena served upon you at 11 :50 a.m.
on the 26th day of October 1965 by a deputy U.S. marshal at the
Dent Motor Company, Tuscaloosa, Alabama?

Mr. Sexton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. An attachment of the subpena, Mr. Sexton, calls upon
you to produce, and I will read to you paragraph 1 :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as
the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3175

organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service and Whiteman's Defense
Fund, in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available
to you as present or former Imperial Kligrapp (Secretary) of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also
known as the United Klans of America, Inc.. Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Mr. Sexton, in the representative capacity stated in paragraph 1,
I ask you now to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. Let me see that subpena.

Now where were you ?

Mr. Manuel. I just asked Mr. Sexton, I believe, to produce the
documents in the paragraph 1.

Mr. Pool. Do you wish to enter into a stipulation at this time?

Mr. Chalmers. I will do it either way, at the end of his answer,
or either way the chairman suggests.

Mr. Pool. All right, let's do it at the end of his answer.

Mr. Chalmers. All right, sir.

Mr. Sexton. I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any
and all documents demanded by the committee in a subpena dated
October the 14th, 1965, for the reason that I honestly feel that to do
so might tend to incriminate me in violation of my rights as guaranteed
to me by amendments 5, 1, 4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United
States of America.

I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee any and all records
as requested by this committee under subpena dated October the 14th,
1965, for the information is not relevant and gennane to the subject
under investigation and the same would not aid the Congress in the
consideration of any valid remedial legislation, nor is such inquiry
within the scope of that authorized to be investigated by Kule XI of
the rules adopted by the 89th Congress by House Eesolution 8, adopted
January the 4th, 1965.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chalmers, state your stipulation again; will you?

Mr. Chalmers. Yes, sir; it is stipulated, if the chairman pleases,
that the witness has been furnished a copy of the opening statement of
the chairman ; it is also stipulated that with respect to the representa-
tive capacity listed in the subpena, that he is here in accordance with
what is stated in a representative capacity as to paragraph 1 of the
subpena.

Mr. Pool. All right. So stipulated.

That is the same stipulation you have entered into previously on
other witnesses.

Mr. Chalmers. With respect to every witness that I have appeared
with here in the hearings, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Let the record so show.

The committee rejects your reasons and orders you to produce the
material and records called for in paragraph 1 of the subpena.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. ]VL\nuel. Mr. Sexton, paragraph 2 of your subpena calls upon
you to produce :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as present or former Imperial Kligrapp (Secretary) of the United Klans of

3176 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws"
of said organization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other
oflScer of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or
control.

In the representative capacity outlined in paragraph 2, I request
you now to produce tliose documents.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Chalmers. With respect to paragraph 2

Mr. Pool. Same stipulation ?

Mr. Chalmers. Same stipulation as to paragraph 1, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. All right, the committee rejects your reasons and orders
and directs you to produce the material and records called for in para-
graph 2 of the subpena.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, paragraph 3 of your subpena calls upon
you to produce :

Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the fiscal years 11»61 through June 30,
1965, filed by you as present or former Imperial Kligrapp (Secretary) of the
Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc.,
also known as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

In the representative capacity stated in paragraph 3, 1 ask you now
to produce those documents.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Chalmers. Same stipulation with respect to paragraph 3 as with
respect to paragraphs 2 and 1.

Mr. Pool. All right, so stipulated.

The Chair now rejects the reasons given and orders and directs you
to produce the material and records called for in paragraph 3.

Mr. Sexton, Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered by the chairman, based upon the
grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, paragraph 4 of your subpena calls upon
you to produce :

Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1040,
"U.S. Individual Income Tax Returns," for the calendar years 1958 through 1964,
filed by you as an individual taxpayer with the U.S. Treasury Department, In-
ternal Revenue Service.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to deliver to the committee
the documents heretofore ordered, based upon the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, have you ever been elected by the mem-
bership of the United Klans of America to any position in that order?

Mr. Sexton. I respectfully decline to answer that question for the
reason that I honestly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate
me in violation of my rights as guaranteed to me by amendments 5, 1,
4, and 14 of the Constitution of the United States of America.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3177

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, have you ever signed in an official capacity
as tlie secretary of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon tlie grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' claim of privi-
lege and his consistent refusal to answer any of my questions, I present
to the committee the results of our investigation as they pertain to Mr.
Sexton.

Mr. Sexton is known to be a member of the United Klans of America
and he attends meetings at the Klavern No. 5 at Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Mr. Sexton is not known by this committee to have been elected to
any position on the imperial level by the membership. Mr. Sexton's
name appears on several bank accounts of the United Klans of America,
namely, the United Klans of America Defense Fund, held at The First
National Bank of Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Mr. Sexton is also known to have signed as secretary on the in-
come tax returns filed by the United Klans of America in the year
1964.

This information, Mr. Chairman, indicates that he possesses addi-
tional information which is both pertinent and relevant to this in-
quiry and would materially aid the Congress in enacting remedial
legislation.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Sexton, you heard the sworn statement of the com-
mittee's investigator.

You now have an opportunity to reply to any portion of that state-
ment and confirm or cliallenge the accuracy of this information, or to
explain any part of that statement. In addition, you may, if you de-
sire, offer any otlier matter that the committee may deem pertinent
to the inquiry. Do you have a statement?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Sexton, I must inform you that, absent your rebuttal
or other facts which may come to the attention of the committee, this
committee will rely upon the accuracy of its investigation.

Bearing this in mind, do you have anything further to say?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Manuel.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, I would like to show you a copy of an
application for certificate of authority of a foreign corporation,
namely, the "Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights Ku Klux Klan
of America, Inc.," which was incorporated under the laws of the State
of Georgia on the 20tli day of February 1961, the headquarters listed
at Suite 401, Alston Building, Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

This photostatic copy of an application is for the United Klans of
America to do business in the State of North Carolina.

On the second page of this document, Mr. Sexton, I point your atten-
tion to the signature of Melvin Sexton, using the title of secretary of
the corporation. I show you this, Mr. Sexton, and ask if you did, m
fact, sign this particular document?
(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. Manuel. The original of that document.

3178 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document previously marked "Robert Sheltoii Exhibit No. 21."
See pp. 1662-1664.)

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, by what authority within the United
Klans of America do you sign your name as secretary of the corpora-
tion?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that on February 9, 1964, Mr. W. O. Perkins was elected to
the position of Imperial Secretary by the general membership of the
United Klans of America ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Pool. Counsel, what did he sign? What was the document?

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, he signed an application for certificate
of authority of a foreign corporation to do business in the State of
North Carolina.

This document was filed in the State of North Carolina in July 1965
and bears the signatures of the principal officers, namely, Robert M.
Shelton as president and Melvin Sexton as secretary.

The committee

Mr. Pool. You have no information, though, that he actually was
secretary ; do you ?

Mr. Manuel. We have no information, Mr. Chairman, that Mr.
Sexton was ever elected secretary by the general membei*ship of the
United Klans of America, and my question to Mr. Sexton was by what
authority does he sign his name as secretary of the corporation, when
committee investigation has revealed that in the year 1964 Mr. W. O.
Perkins, a previous witness before the committee, was elected to that
position for a period of 2 years, which was amended to include an

Mr. Pool. Was that signed under oath ?

Mr. Manuel. It is certified by a notary public in the State of
Alabama.

Mr, Pool. Let's see the certification.

Let the record show that this notarization certificate of the notary
public says :

Robert M. SheHton and Melvin Sexton, eadi being duly sworn, deposes and says
that he signed the foregoing "Application for Certificate of Authority" in the
capacity indicated, and that the statements therein contained are true and
correct.

So with this document in the record, I think that we certainly should
notify the State of North Carolina of a discrepancy there in the fact
that we have evidence that one man is supposed to be the secretary, and
yet he signed this as secretary on this application.

I think, certainly, that should be brought to their attention.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, on the same document, "Mr. W. O. Per-
kin" ^ of 17 Lake Sherwood, Northport, Alabama, is listed as the
treasurer of the Invisible Empire.

1 Correct name "W. O. Perkins."

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3179

Is that certification of Mr. Perkins as treasurer, to your knowledge,
truthful?

Mr. Sexton, Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, to your knowledge, is Mr. Fredrick
Smith the treasurer or Imperial Klabee of the United Klans of
America ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr, Pool. You have had evidence to that effect, that he is treasurer?

Mr. Manuel. Committee investigation, Mr. Chairman, has show^n
that Mr. Smith was elected to the position of treasurer on the same
date and at the same convention or klonvokation that Mr. W. O.
Perkins was elected secretary.

The committee has no information that these men have not been —
have not. held that office continuously from that time on.

Mr. Sexton, the committee has obtained by subpena duces tecum
from The First National Bank of Tuscaloosa, Alabama, an account
of the "U.K.A. Defence Fund," and on this signature card is listed
the signature of Melvin Sexton, care of 17 Lake Sherwood, Northport,
Alabama.

I show you this, Mr. Sexton, .and ask if you are the Melvin Sexton
listed on that account?

(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Document marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 1" follows:)

William Sexton Exhibit No. 1

FIRST NATIONAL BANK, TUSKALOOSA, ALABAMA

Thf hank li hereby tuthorlzed lo rffcinlie the iljnature ticruifd hfrewlth In payment of fundi or trtnmnion of «ny oi

• !iumei no rejpnngllilllly beyond the eierrlio of due cire. All Itemi arc rredllrd nuhjec t lo final payment In rnjh or i
yenl rrcdll. This bank will not he liable for defaull or nenllgenre of In duly lelr. led rnrreapondenn nor for Inmei In tra
It. and each rorreipondent in aelected ihttl not be liable except for Its own ne«ll(ienre. This bank or Us rorrr«ponflentB n
send Items, directly or Indirectly, to any binlt Including the payor, and accept Its draft or credit ai conditional payment In
lieu of cash: It may charge back any liem ai any time before final payment, whether returned or not. also anv Hem drawn
on this bank not jood at close of buslneni on day deposited Serrice charjei will be made In accordance with rulei and
regulatloni. effectlTe ai of data of thli deposit

OR autiNtit IT/T

OCCUrATION OR autiNtit

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jtoy/6

10 CONNICTION ACCOUNT ACCIPTtO BY ^ ^ -

U-K A Defence Fund

3180 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, what is the address 17 Lake Sherwood,
Northport, Alabama ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Can you explain to the committee how you are listed
at 17 Lake Sherwood, Northport, Alabama, and at the same time, in
the document which we just went over, the application for a foreign
corporation, Mr. W. O. Perkins was listed at that same address, 17
Lake Sherwood, Northport, Alabama ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the groimds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Is that particular address in the proximity of Mr.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Would you please explain to the committee, Mr.
Sexton, what the U.K. A. Defense Fund is?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Were moneys used by the U.K.A. Defense Fund in
any way for the defense of Collie Leroy Wilkins, W. O. Eaton, and
Eugene Thomas, persons indicted in the murder of Mrs. Viola Liuzzo ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, investigation conducted by the commit-
tee in this regard has revealed that, in this particular account, the
total deposits from the 30th day of August 1965 until the 10th day
of December 1965, totaled $5,164.06. Could you please explain to the committee where that money came from ? Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Ledger sheets marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 2" and re- tained in committee files.) Mr. Manuel. What has become of that money, that$5,000, since
December of 1965 ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, I would like to show you a series of de-
posit items which were made out either to the name of Melvin Sexton
or to the name of the U.K.A. Defense Fund, and ask if these items were
deposited by you or any other person known by you to be a member
of the United Klans of America in the account of the U.K.A. Defense
Fund?

(Documents handed to witness.)

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Documents marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 3." The checks
and money orders included in this exhibit follow; balance of docu-
ments retained in committee files.)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3181

William Sexton Exhibit No. 3

UNITEO KLANS OF AMERICA

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3182 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

William Sexton Exhibit No. 3 — Continued

Pay TO TiiL- /-'' .-'^ ,, /

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ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE TJ..S. 3183

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3184 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Manuel. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that these deposits represent donations or contributions
from Klaverns of the United Klans of America.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon tlie grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Further, that these deposits were made for the de-
fense of Collie Leroy Wilkins, W. O. Eaton, and Eugene Thomas in
their trial recently in Alabama.

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, were proceeds from this account used to
pay the bail or to post bond of the defendants in the case, that is, Wil-
kins, Eaton, and Thomas ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. I should like to show you a copy of a canceled check
made payable to James Esdale, in the amount of $1,000 and checks, numbering five, payable to James Esdale and Art Hanes, in the total amount of— one for$1,000, one for $2,000, one for$500, $250, and$500,
and the notation on the back of the check indicates that Mr. Esdale
has a bail bonding company, and ask you if these checks w^ere written
for the bail of Wilkins, Eaton, and Thomas?

(Documents handed to witness.)

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Checks marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 4" and retained in
committee files.)

Mr. Manuel. I should like to state for the record also, Mr. Chair-
man, that the name signed on the checks is that of Melvin Sexton,

Mr. Sexton, are you one of two current authorized signatures on an
account, another account of the United Klans of America, which is
maintained at the Birmingham Tnist National Bank in Birmingham,
Alabama, the two signatures being that of yourself and that of Robert
M. Creel ? (See James Whitefield Exhibit No. 3-B, p. 3113.)

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Is that particular account which is maintained at the
Birmingliam Trust National Bank the account of the Alabama Realm
of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Sexton, I would like to show you a series of four
checks, made payable to Robert M. or Bob Creel, totaling $655, and each one signed w-ith the name "Melvin Sexton." I ask you to examine these checks, and I ask you for what purpose were they drawn and paid to Mr. Creel ? (Documents handed to witness.) Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Checks marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 5" and retained in committee files.) Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, I would like to note that these checks w^ere drawn from the period of the 23d of January 1965 to the 10th day of November 1965. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3185 I show you another check, Mr. Sexton, made payable to "Leroy Col- lie Wilkins,'- in the amount of$158.50, signed by Melvin Sexton, and
ask you for what purpose this check to "Leroy Collie Wilkins" was

(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

(Check marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 6" follows:)

William Sexton Exhibit No. 6

^ .f'

-^

3186 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Manuel. For the record, Mr. Chairman, this check was dated
April the 12th, 1965, and is endoi-sed on the reverse side by the name
"Leroy Collie Wilkins," also endorsed by the name "Collie Leroy
Wilkins."

Mr. Sexton, on the 8th day of March 1965, you issued a check from
this account to Mr. E. L. McDaniel, whom the committee has iden-
tified as the Grand Dragon of the State of Mississippi. This check
was drawn in the amount of $125. Would you please examine the check and advise the committee for what purpose that check was drawn ? (Document handed to witness.) Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question, based upon the grounds previously stated. (Check marked "William Sexton Exhibit No. 7" follows:) William Sexton Exhibit No. 7 V A BlRJ« •fll.XGtlAM ThrST NaTIOSIAL RANPf Ko ^k. - n<>i.tju,i. AKS •» AMCKICA i:o&20-nnr)Ai: &>i i^iasa** /aaDoo&2&oo/ Mr. Manuel. Was this check to Mr. McDaniel, Mr. Sexton, in the amount of$125, a contribution from the Realm of Alabama or any
Klansmen in Alabama for the defense of Mississippi Klansmen accused
of any violation of law?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Do you know Robert M. Creel, whose signature ap-
pears with yours on the account of the UKA maintained at the Birm-
ingham Trust National Bank, to be Grand Dragon of the State of
Alabama? For the United Klans of America?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Have you as an individual ever received any pay-
ment or remuneration for your services from the United Klans of
America ?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Did you sign your name as secretary to the income
tax return filed by the United Klans of America for the fiscal year
1964?

Mr. Sexton. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3187

Mr. Manitel. To your knowledge, Mr. Sexton, did the income tax
return filed by the United Klans for the fiscal year 1964 reflect truly
and accurately the amount of money taken in and disbursed by that
organization?

Mr. Sextox. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based upon the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, the stafi' has no further questions of
this witness.

Mr. Pool. Any questions?

Mr. Buchanan. No questions.

Mr. Pool. The witness is excused.

The committee will stand in recess for 3 minutes.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee members
present at the time of recess and when hearings resumed : Representa-
tives Pool and Buchanan.)

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order. Call the next witness.

Mr. Appell. Ralph Roton.

Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF RALPH RAY ROTON

Mr. Appell. Will you state your full name for the record, Mr.
Roton?

Mr. RoTON. Ralph Ray Roton.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, are you appearing here today in accordance
with a subpena served upon you on November 3, 1965, at 1424 Carol
Circle, Fairfield, Alabama ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, I note that you are not represented by
counsel.

Mr. RoTON. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Appell. Do you desire counsel ?

Mr. RoTON. Not at this time, sir, but we may have to stop and get
one.

Mr. Appell. Do you desire to have counsel ?

Mr. RoTON. Not at this time, sir.

Mr. Appell. Have you been advised of your constitutional rights
and that under the Constitution you may at any time invoke constitu-
tional privileges, the right against self-incrimination, the fifth amend-
ment?

Mr. Roton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Have you received a copy of the opening statement of
the chairman and are you familiar with the contents of it?

Mr. Roton. Is this the opening statement, sir, dated March 30, 1965 ?

Mr. Appell. No, it was October.

Mr. Pool. No, let me see that.

This is the one he wants to see. Ask him if he has seen that.

Mr. Appell. This statement here.

3188 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; this is the first time I have seen this.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I suggest tliat we stand in recess for 5
minutes to permit Mr. Roton an opportunity to review that statement
and become familiar with its contents.

Mr. Pool. All right.

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes to allow the wit-
ness to examine the opening statement.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee members
present time of recess and when hearings resumed : Representatives
Pool and Buchanan.)

Mr. Pool. The committee will be in order.

Mr. Appell. Are you now, Mr. Roton, familiar with the chairman's
opening statement of October 1965 ?

Mr, RoTON. I have read it briefly. I haven't studied it, sir.

Mr. Pool. Do you care for more time ?

Mr. RoTON. Not at this time, sir.

Mr. Pool, Do you understand what it says ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr, Pool. And you don't care for additional time to study it?

Mr. Roton. Not at this time.

Mr, Pool. I am asking now, do you care for additional time?

Mr. Roton. No, sir; not at this time.

Mr, Pool. All right.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, when and where were you born?

Mr. Roton. November 10, 1930, Montgomery, Alabama.

Mr. Appell. Give the committee a brief resume of your educational
background.

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I don't think the educational background has any
pertinency, but I will be more than happy to.

Mr. Appell. Well, it is identifying information and is perfectly
proper, so if you will please give it to us, we will appreciate it.

Mr. RoTON. I have a lOth-grade education, sir, and I passed the
high school equivalent test, giving me a high school equivalency.

Mr, Appell. When did you complete your formal education anu
when did you obtain your high school equivalent?

Mr. Roton. I dont' remember the date, sir.

Mr. Appell, Well, the year,

Mr, Roton. In 1958, to the best of my knowledge.

Mr, Appell, And when did you get your high school equivalent ?

Mr. RoTON. That was in the same year, sir. That was the high
school equivalent.

Mr, Appell. When did you stop your formal education? When
did you complete your lOth-grade formal education?

Mr. Roton. In 1946, if I am not mistaken, sir.

Mr, Appell, 1946 ?

Mr, Roton, If I am not mistaken, sir,

Mr, Appell, Did you perform service in any of the military estab-
lishments of the United States ?

Mr, Roton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And what was your branch of service and what was
your period of service ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3189

Mr. RoTON. December 1945, until — I have the discharges here some-
where.

January '47 to November '47, in the United States Navy, April the
8th of '48 to February the 8th of '50.

Mr. Appell. That latter period of service, also the U.S. Navy?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir; that was United States Army. And from April
the 8th of '50, 1 believe, until March tlie 8th of 1952, the United States
Air Force.

Mr. Appell. Since 1960, would you give the committee a brief resume
of your employment background ?

Mr.RoTON. Since 1960?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. RoTON. I was employed by the International Brotherhood of
Electrical Workers in 1960. In early 1961, 1 went to work with a large
corporation, sir. If it is pertinent, I will bring it out, but my associa-
tion with the United Klans of America may have some bearing on their
future

Mr. Appell. Well, you are no longer associated with that company ;
are you ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. Well, let's let that pass for the time being as to identifying
the company. We might ask it at a later time.

Mr. Appell. Now as an employee of the IBEW, you held a card in
that local and you were employed by various contractors ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. So that your employment was not by the IBEW, but
by independent contractors, hiring union labor members of the IBEW?

Mr. RoTON. I was referred to different contractors by the IBEW;
that is correct, sir.

Mr. Appell. And you maintained your membership in the IBEW
until 1961 and received assignments from them w^hen you work for an-
other, a large corporation ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. How long did you remain employed by this corpora-
tion?

Mr. RoTON. Approximately 3 years.

Mr. Appell. And what was the period of time when your employ-
ment with them terminated ?

Mr.RoTON. August of 1963.

Mr. Appell. And what was the purpose for which the employment
was terminated, to seek other employment ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; to go to work for someone else.

Mr. Appell. And who was your next employer?

Mr. RoTON. I might call that self-employed, sir.

Mr. Appell. Could you explain to the committee what you mean by
self-employed ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; T resigned from the corporation to come to the
Washington march to take pictures, make tape recordings, and iden-
tifying as many known Communists as I could for a committee such

3190 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE IJ.S.

as this in the State of Alabama, known as the Commission To Preserve
The Peace.^

Mr. Appell. This was a State legislative committee?

Mr. RoTON, Yes, sir.

May I say this and clarify this? The State of Alabama had no
recollection or had no knowledge that I was a member of the United
Klans of America.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Appell, may I interject at that point? I can
confirm from this commission that Avhat he lias just said is true. They
had no knowledge of any connection of Mr. Roton with the Klan
organization at this time, during the entire period of his employment.

Mr. Appei.l. With respect to the coverage that you made of the
march on Washington, did you do this under instruction, or did you
do this on your own?

Mr. RoTON. Under instruction.

Mr. Appell. Can you tell the committee who specifically instructed
you to do this?

Mr. RoTON. Representative John H. Hawkins, Jr., of Birmingham,
Alabama.

Mr. Appell. In an interview with Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Hawkins ad-
vised me that he did not know of your coverage of that march until
after your return and your submitting the bill for expenses incurred.

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Hawkins did send me to Washington, sir. And it
was by his request that I did go to Washington.

Mr. Appell. How did you become employed by this committee?

Mr. RoTON. By doing investigation of the racial trouble in Bir-
mingham and talking with Mr. Hawkins in the past and, also, pre-
senting him with evidence of what was going on, for prior to this
time, the commission had no fund in which to pay anyone with, and
which he told me specifically to go ahead and let's gather this informa-
tion, and we will present it and form a committee such as this com-
mittee, the House TJn-American Activities Committee in Washington.

Also, to curb the Communist activities in the State of Alabama.

Mr. Appell. Now you say that you were hired by them because of
the investigative experience that you had had in making these
investigations?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Were these investigations conducted by you as a mem-
ber of the United Klans of America?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir. As an undercover member; yes.

Mr. Appell. As an undercover member?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And for what organization were you operating as an
undercover?

Mr. RoTON. Different — not an organization, sir. I carried a press
card.

Mr. Appell. Wliat do — you said that you joined the United Klans
of America and did this as an undercover operative.

Now I ask you for wliom you were working as an undercover
operative ?

Mr. RoTON. Now what do you mean, sir ?

Mr. Appell. Well

Full name "Alabama Legislative Commission To Preserve The Peace."

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3191

Mr. RoTON. Do you think that I was trying to subvert the State of
Alabama, or

Mr. ArPELL. No, sir; I am only asking for clarification of a state-
ment that you made.

Mr. EoTON. Well, sir, I was in the United Klans of America prior
to my employment with the Commission To Preserve The Peace.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir; I understood that, and you said that the in-
vestigation that you had conducted, the investigations that you had
conducted which' qualified you for employment with the legislative
committee, had been investigations which you had conducted as a
member of the United Klans of America.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And then you said that you had been conducting these
investigations in an operative capacity.

Mr. RoTON. Well, I will say this : I was a member of the United
Klans of America.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. Now what I want to know is

Mr. RoTON. And under the direct supervision of Mr. Robert M.
Shelton, I infiltrated different groups .

Mr. Appell. So that you wei-e an operative of the United Klans of
America within organizations which the United Klans of America had
an interest in. You were not operating within the United Klans of
America for any individual.

IVIr. RoTON. I attended meetings very seldom in the United Klans
of America. All of my work was done on the outside, investigating
different groups.

Mr. Appell. Now when did you join the United Klans of America?

Mr. RoTON. Approximately 7 years, 61/2, 7 years ago, sir. I don't
remember the name — I mean the date.

Mr. Appell. iVnd to what Klan were you affiliated at the time you
joined?

Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge, it was the Alabama Klan,
sir.

Mr. Appell. The Alabama Klan was formed in 1960, was it not?
Wasn't it prior thereto

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I don't remember on the exact date.

Mr. Appell. But your best recollection is that it was during the
period of time of the incorporation of the Alabama Knights of the Ku
Klux Klan with Mr. Robert M. Shelton as the Imperial Wizard?

Mr. RoTON. I am now a member of the United Klans of America.
Mr. Shelton was previous Grand Dragon of the State of Alabama.
To the best of my knowledge, whatever Klan it was, I was a member
then of the U.S. Klan or of the Alabama Klan, and I feel sure that it
was the Alabama Klan at that time.

Mr. Appell. To what Klavern were you affiliated as a member of
tlie United Klans of America ?

Mr. Roton. Confederate Lodge #11 in Montgomery.

Mr. Appell. Is that Confederate Lodge # 11 or Confederate Den
No. 11 ?

Mr. RoTON. Confederate Den, sir.

Mr. Appell. And at the time you became a member of the United
Klans of America, did you subscribe to a series of oaths which are

3192 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

similar to a series of oaths that I hand you reproduced in this docu-
ment ?

Mr. RoTON. I could not swear to it, sir ? To the best of my knowl-
edge, it is similar.

(Document previously marked "Robert Shelton Exhibit No. 4.")

Mr. Appell. Can you explain to the committee that portion of the
oath which is under the series on Klanishness, which requires a mem-
ber of a Klan to swear that he will keep secret to himself a secret of a
Klansman, when same is committed to him in the sacred bond of
Klansmanship, the only exception being treason against the United
States of America, rape, and malicious murder alone excepted?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir; I couldn't explain it to you. I don't know the

Mr. Appell. Was an explanation given to you as a member of the
Klan as to what this meant ?

Mr. RoTON. If that was in the oath, sir, 7 years ago, I don't know.

I couldn't give you an honest answer.

Mr. Appell. Now who were the officers of the Confederate Den No.

II at the time you joined ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir.

Mr. Appell. Who recruited you into the United Klans of America ?

Mr. RoTON. That, I do not remember, either, sir.

Mr. Appell. How long did you maintain a membership in the Con-
federate Den No. 11 ?

Mr. RoTON. Oh, I guess approximately 6 years, 5 years, something
like that.

Mr. Appell. Approximately when did you cease being a member of
Confederate Den No. 11 ?

Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge, sir, Confederate Den No.
11 is not in operation at this time.

Mr. Appell. When did you cease being a member of Confederate
Den No. 11 ?

Mr. RoTON. I guess when it closed, sir.

Mr. Appell. Well, w^hen did it close ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir. I have been in and out of Mont-
gomery and I do not know.

Mr. Appell. Well, who were the officers of the Confederate Den No.
11, the most recent date that you can remember as to the operation of
thoDen?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir.

Mr. Appell. You don't remember.

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. Do you remember any members of the Den, Confederate
Den?

Mr. RoTON. Not to give an honest answer, sir, I could not swear.

Mr. Pool. You don't recall anybody that belonged to this Confed-
erate Den ?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge, sir ; no, sir.

Mr. Appell. Can you explain how you held membership in it for
so many years and not know the identity of a single member of that
Den?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3193

Mr. RoTON. I just don't remember, sir, and to identify a person or to
call a name as being a member may not do justice to him. There is no
certain way you can identify a member, and my work was done on the
outside of the Dens and the Klaverns, and I told this committee that
I have, seldom have attended meetings.

Mr. Pool. Well, that may be right, and you may be correct in saying
what you did. I just want to caution you, though, that if you say you
don't remember and other testimony proves that you do remember or
that you do have an acquaintanceship, then you would be in serious
trouble.

Mr. RoTON. Well, Mr. Chairman, may I say this, in all respect

Mr. Pool. I am telling you that for your own benefit. You prob-
ably are telling me the truth, or tilling the committee the truth, but I
am trying to explain to you that just saying you don't remember is
not an excuse for somebody that proves that you do have acquaintance-
ships there, and you should remember.

That's all I am trying to tell you.

Mr. RoTON. Well, sir, I know many different people by name, but
to say that they are members of the United Klans of America, it would
be an impossibility for me to tell this committee the truth.

Mr. Pool. Well, can you name some members or can you name some
people who attended meetings with you, then ?

Mr. RoTON. And to identify them as Klansmen ?

Mr. Pool. No, I said to identify people who attended meetings with
you.

I am not asking you to state that they were Klansmen, because, in
fact, you may not know for sure that they are, but can you name the
names of people who attended meetings with you of the Klan?

Mr. RoTON. I can name Robert. Creel, Robert Shelton, Robert
Thomas, and to go beyond that, to be beyond a reasonable doubt and
a moral certainty, sir, I could not.

Mr. Pool. All right, go ahead, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. May I ask you, Mr. Roton, you said that you had on
instructions of Imperial Wizard Shelton infiltrated certain organiza-
tions for the purpose of identifying Communists.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. RoTON. I have been associated with the Communists, many
known Communists ; yes, sir. But I have never been a member of a
Commimist Party. Very detrimental (sic) to the Communist Party,
because it is atheistic and against this form of government.

Mr. Appell. How do you identify Communists, not being a member,
and not being able to identify Klansmen when you were a member?

Mr. RoTON. That could be answered in many diflferent ways, sir.
Communists don't carry cards, neither do Klansmen, that I know of.

Mr. Appell. How do you identify them ?

Mr. RoTON. By their actions, I guess, by their self-admissions of it.

Mr. Appell. But you attended meetings with Klasmen, in closed
meetings of Klansmen, and known Klansmen were present.

Now I want to know the identity of these Klansmen that you at-
tended meetings with, closed meetings, only people that are Klansmen.

Mr. RoTON. Sir, it would be an impossibility for me to tell you the
truth as to identify a man as being a Klansman.

3194 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appeul. For what reason ?

Mr. RoTON. For no reason. I do not know beyond a reasonable
doubt and a moral certainty, and to tell you that a man was a Klans-
man wouldn't be doing justice to him, myself, or this committee.

Mr. Appell. Well, we don't want testimony other than what you
know, but you attended closed Klavern meetings; did you not?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. At which the only people present were Klansmen.

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Appell. Well, now, let's take the organization of a Klavern.
Who is eligible for admission into a Klavern under the rules and pro-
cedures of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. RoTON. Being familiar with Klankraft, veiy vaguely, and what
the Klans stand for, I can tell you that. That's what I know about it,
sir.

Mr. Appell. I am asking you about the operation of a Klavern, sir.
People coming into a Klavern meeting. I want to know whether or
not people who are non-Klansmen are permitted into a Klavern
meeting.

Mr. RoTON. There is a possibility that they could be.

Mr. Appell. Well, will you explain to the committee the possibil-
ities under which this might happen ?

Mr. RoTON. Well, it has been stated many times by the press over
here that the FBI has the Klan so infiltrated you couldn't — I mean
you can go in and out at your own discretion.

Mr. Appell. Are you talking about ideological Klansmen?

I am talking about people who hold a membership card in the United
Klans of America.

Mr. RoTON. Well, to identify a person as being a card-carrying
member of the United Klans of America, sir, I couldn't do it. I have
associated with people all over the State of Alabama and all over the
United States, but I can't tell you beyond a reasonable doubt, imless
a Klansman identifies himself to me personally, sir, I can't.

Mr. Appell. How were you known within Den No. 11 as a member?

Mr. RoTON. By Ralph Roton, I assume.

Mr. Appell. Was membership within your Klavern kept by name,
or was it kept by number ?

Mr. Roton. It was kept by number, to the best of my knowledge,
sir.

Mr, Appell. What was your nmnber within the Klavern ?

Mr. Roton, 1638, 1 believe,

Mr, Appell, 1638.

Mr. Roton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. In the operation of the Klan, was the fact that you
were a Klansman and assigned to Confederate Den No. 11, or the fact
that any other member was a member of a Klan, reported to a higher
authority as far as identification of a member is concerned ?

Mr. Roton. To my knowledge, no, sir.

Mr. Appell. Could anyone get into a Klavern meeting without pass-
ing the security personnel of that Klavern in order to attend the
meeting ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I have done it.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3195

Mr. Appell. You have done what, sir ?

Mr. RoTON. I have come into a meeting without passing the security.

Mr. Appell. How? Will you explain that? You were a member,
and are a member.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. How do you violate security ?

Mr. RoTON. Just being known, I guess, by other people.

Mr. Pool. Here referring to your Klavem, or just any Klavem?
Have you been to other Klaverns and got in without identifying
yourself ?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge ; no, sir.

Mr. Pool. Your own Klavern is the only one that you have been to
without identifying yourself?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. They all knew who you were and you didn't have to
identify yourself. Is that right ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes; it was a small group.

Mr. Appell. Now, Mr. Roton, when did you receive a commission
or appointment from the Imperial AYizard so that you conducted
assignments under his direction ?

Mr. RoTON. In early 1961, I talked to Mr. Shelton and I told him
in the capacity that I was serving with, in a separate capacity, that
I had the opportunity to possibly go in and infiltrate other groups,
and it might be interesting to find out what some things are going
on in these other groups, and bring back the knowledge to the United
Klans of America. I was told by Mr. Shelton to keep him posted.
I have been operating in that capacity ever since, since 1961.

Mr. Appell. Now you mean to tell the committee that your em-
ployment with the Jim Walter Corporation was such that you had
time to be on their payroll and carry out investigative activities in
behalf of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. RoTON. I didn't work for Jim Walter Corporation 24 hours a
day, sir. I did this on my own time, and since that is out, I guess it
is all right to refer to them as such.

Mr. Appell. Where was your employment with the Jim Walter
Corporation?

Mr. RoTON. Troy, Alabama ; Florence, Alabama.

Mr. Appell. Well, let's stick in the year 1961.

Mr. RoTON. In Troy, Alabama.

Mr. Appell. And what was the nature of assignments which you
received from Mr. Robert Shelton in 1961 and when did this start in
1961?

Mr. RoTON. It was in the latter part of 1961, sir. Let me correct
myself. I transferred twice. When I moved from Montgomery to
Troy, and I was transferred by the Jim Walter Corporation to
Florence, Aalabama, for a period of 3 months, and then I was trans-
ferred back into Binningham office, in the regional office, and it was
in the latter part of 1961, I believe, that I had that conversation with
Mr. Shelton.

Mr. Appell. Now will you tell the committee the details of this
conversation that you had with Mr. Shelton? You have told us what
you have said to him. Now I would like to know what his part of the
conversation was.

3196 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. RoTON. His answer was, "Go ahead and keep me informed."

Mr. Appell. Was there a discussion as to the type of organizations
that you were going to infiltrate and the type of knowledge you hoped
to learn for the United Klans of America ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; the Southern Conference on Human Welfare —
Southern Christian Leadership Conference, CORE, and a few other
organizations I do not remember the names of.

Mr. Appell. Now which of these organizations did you, in fact,
infiltrate ?

Mr. RoTON. Both and all.

Mr. Appell. Well, please name them. A, B, C, D.

Mr. RoTON. Southern Christian Leadership Conference, I have been
associated with them, in and out of their meetings, for the past — since
1961.

Mr. Appell. Will you explain the association with them in and out
of their meetings ? Were you a member of the organization ?

Mr. RoTON. Making tape recordings and taking pictures of indi-
viduals and known people that come in and try to cause racial and
civil disturbance.

Mr. Appell. Were you a member of the organization ?

Mr. RoTON. I paid dues, donations on different occasions.

Mr, Appell. Were you a member of the organization ?

Mr. RoTON. To say I am a member, I don't know whether I could
say or not, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you file an application for membership? Did
you pay yearly dues? Did you meet the requirements of a member?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir. I didn't, I filled out an application at one
time, in August of 1965, the Birmingham convention of the Southern
Conference, Southern Christian Leadership,

Mr. Appell. This was the convention that they had there, where
you entered with press credentials and took photographs ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell, Whose press credentials did you use ?

Mr, RoTON, Sir, do I have to bring this out ?

Mr, Appell, Yes, sir. You certainly do, sir.

Mr. RoTON. Is it pertinent to this investigation ?

Mr. Appell. It sure is, sir. You were operating for the United
Klans of America. It is pertinent.

I am waiting for an answer, sir,

Mr, RoTON, I mean could any legislation be pending on that one par-
ticular answer, Mr, Chairman ?

Mr, Appell. It might well be.

Mr, RoTON, Well, sir, it is — there is a lot of people, innocent peo-
ple, and I will say this: The United Klans of America is not all what
it has been portrayed to be. I have been associated with many, many
people, and to bring innocent names in front of the press, and being
recorded here, and will be in a printed form for people to read, I just
don't think it is to the best interest,

Mr. Appell. We wnsh to determine w^hether or not these organiza-
tions that you infiltrated or the press media that you obtained press
credentials from and whose name was used, not as a member of the
press, but as an agent of the United Klans of America, to infiltrate

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3197

other organizations — these people who are innocent might well also
not possess knowledge that you, at the time, were working for the
United Klans of America.

Mr. RoTON. And it could be, sir, but to clarify that statement, to
the best of my knowledge Birmingham Independent, in Birmingham,
had no knowledge that I was a member of the United Klans of
America.

Mr. Appell. How did you obtain

Mr. RoTON. To the best

Mr. Appell. How did you obtain the press credentials ?

Mr. RoTON. Through the editor,

Mr. Appell. Through the editor?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Were you volunteering services for him ?

Mr. RoTON. I did, I do some free-lance photography work, sir, and
I have sold pictures to many different people.

Mr. Appell. Now

Mr. Pool. If he had known that you were working as a member
of the United Klans of America, would he have given you this press
pass ?

Mr. RoTON. I couldn't answer that question, sir. I do not Imow.

Mr. Pool. But you didn't tell him that you were working for the
United Klans or were a member of the United Klans of America?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Why did you withhold this information from him?

Mr. RoTON. Well, being associated with the United Klans of Amer-
ica, I have always worked under cover, and to be exposed and sitting
in with the groups of Southern Christian Leadership Conference
and CORE and the different people like that, it would jeopardize
me to a certain extent, and which I have been called and threatened,
and by people that I do not know who they are, but they call me and
have called me regularly.

Mr. Appell. Let's return to your employment with the legislative
committee.

Mr. Pool. Just a moment. He said the editor, didn't he, of the
Birmingham paper?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Give the committee the full details and knowledge of how you be-
came employed by them.

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Chairman, that again is guilt by association, and
the members of this press here are sitting here, and I have worked
with them; I see a couple I have worked with down there in Selma.
They know the situation and what is going on here between the United
Klans of America, the names listed in your report, and the Southern
Christian leadership Conference of Black Muslims, in which I have
been associated with them and all, and so have they, and guilt by
association will injure some people.

1 have been associated with some very influential people in this
country and I just do not think it is pertinent and I will ask your
permission to give me permission not to answer that. Because if I

start calling names, there is a lot of people going

Mr. Pool. Repeat the question.

3198 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. I asked the witness to give us the details of how he
became associated wnth the commission.

Mr. RoTON. You are speaking about my association with the United
Klans of America?

Mr. Appell. No, sir; I am talking about the legislative committee
for which you were an emplovee.

Mr. RoTON. I worked with the United Klans of America as an
undercover investigator, appointed by, directed by Mr. Robert M.
Shelton.

Mr. Appell. Well, were you directed to infiltrate the legislative com-
mittee ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir, I was not.

Mr. Appell. Well, then, explain to the committee how you became
affiliated with it.

Mr, RoTON. The times and the experiences that I have used, of
using camera and recorder, and

Mr. Appell. I want to know the details of how you became em-
ployed.

Mr. Pool. Whom did you approach about a job with the legislative
committee?

Mr. RoTON. I had talked on several different occasions with Mr.
John Hawkins, and

Mr. Pool. What is his position in the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. He is chairman of the committee, sir.

Mr. Pool. Chairman of the committee.

Mr. RoTON. And I have information that I passed on to Mr.
Hawkins and which was very pertinent to some of his reports, I
undertand.

Mr. Pool. Now when and where and why did he have you investi-
gating for the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. In early, if I am not mistaken, and to the best of
my knowledge, sir, in early August we discussed employment with the
committee, as they needed an investigator, according to the terms
and conditions of the legislation that was passed by the State of
Alabama, allowed them to hire outside investigators.

Mr. Appell. Who sent you to Mr. Hawkins for employment?
Who recommended you to him for employment ?

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Chairman, do I have to answer that question ?

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to

Mr. Pool. State the question again.

Mr. Appell. I asked him who recommended him for employment
with the commission.

Mr. Pool. I think I will restate it. Did anyone recommend you,
recommend to you to go to Mr. Hawkins and ask for a job with
the commission ? Yes or no.

That is a fair question, isn't it, as restated, to make it easy for
you?

Mr. RoTON. But back to the same thing I said, Mr. Cliairman, would
it be fair to implicate people that might hold a high position ? Would
it be fair?

Mr. Pool. I think this committee has a right to know the circum-
stances surrounding your activities, so I

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3199

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, I would request that the chairman
of this committee, Mr, Hawkins — and may I tighten up my previous
statement, to the best of my knowledge and belief, the testimony of the
witness is correct in saying that the legislative committee in hiring
liim had no knowledge of his affiliation, past or present, with any
Klan organization. And this is my belief, based upon the testi-
mony of Representative John Hawkins which I have on this ques-
tion.

Now I would request of the Chair that Mr. Hawkins be permitted to
answer it in writing, or some way, since a committee of the State of
Alabama Legislature is being questioned. May I say there were two
Republicans in that legislature.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to
answer the question as to who recommended him for employment with
the committee.

Mr. Pool. I want to tell the witness this, that I don't know whether
this is going to hurt anybody or not, but it is pertinent to the inquiry,
and there is no other way to do it except for you to go ahead and make
answer to his question. It is very pertinent to this inquiry, so I direct
you and order you to answer the question.

Mr. RoTON. Sir, could we call a 5-minute recess and let me make a
telephone call ?

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I request that the witness be directed
to answer the question.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman

Mr. Pool. Just a minute. I think that, in view of the fact that he
does not have a lawyer here, I am going to grant you the 5-minute
recess to make a telephone call. Talk to your lawyer, or whoever you
want to. That is the reason we are giving you the 5-minute recess, if
you would prefer legal counsel.

Mr. Roton. All right, sir,

Mr. Pool. There will be a 5-minute recess.

("Whereupon a brief recess was taken. Subcommittee members pres-
ent at time of recess and when hearings resumed : Representatives Pool
and Buchanan.)

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, what position did you hold within the
United Klans at the time you were recommended for employment by
the legislative committee ?

Mr. RoTON. None that I remember, sir. I have held the position as
public relations director, and that's an appointed position. That's of
the State of Alabama.

Mr. Appell. What position were you holding at the time you were
receiving assignments from Mr. Shelton ?

Mr. RoTON. There was no official title to it. The

Mr. Appell. Were you part of the KBI?

Mr. Roton. I guess you might say I was an investigator ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. You were an investigator for the KBI? Were you
part of the klokann committee ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; I never have been.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4-

3200 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. Now at the time that you were recommended for ap-
pointment to the legislative committee, had you at that time received
the appomtment of public relations director ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; I hadn't.

Mr. Appell. You hadn't. All right, now, sir, who recommended
you to the legislative committee for employment?

Mr. RoTON. Gentlemen, if I go in and keep this in context, I cer-
tainly would appreciate it. I talked with Governor Wallace — he had
no idea that I was ever associated with the United Klans of America,
to my knowledge — and told him that I did investigative work; for
whom, I did not say, and I understood that there would be a position
open with this committee and I would appreciate anything he could
, do to help me. Now, whether Governor Wallace did or not, I do not
know. I only worked for the committee, as you know, a short time.

Mr. Appell. How were you thereafter notified that you received
an employment by the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. Would you restate that question, sir ?

Mr. Appell. I say, How were you notified that you were to be ap-
pointed as an employee of the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. As under the direction of ]Mr. Hawkins, I went ahead.
The funds were not approved for the committee as yet, and they
wouldn't have been until, I think, November 15th of 1963, if I am not
mistaken. I went ahead at my own expense and did this work for
Mr. Hawkins and the committee and turned the evidence over to him,
and I received two checks from the State of Alabama. One in De-
cember, if I am not mistaken, and one in January of 1964, I believe.

Mr. Appell. Who suggested that you make contact with Governor
Wallace and seek employment with this commission ?

Mr. RoTON. No one, to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Appell. No one ?

Mr. RoTON. It was my own idea.

Mr. Pool. Did Governor Wallace know that you were working for
the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. That, I don't know. I didn't talk to Governor Wal-
lace any more.

Mr. Pool. That is the only time you talked to him ?

Mr. RoTON. Well, I have talked to my Governor, yes, and there is
many people that talk to him.

Mr. Pool. About what ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, that has no legislative purpose.

Mr. Pool. What is that ?

Mr. RoTON. About what I talked to Governor Wallace about. On
that specific occasion, I talked to him and, as I have stated here before,
that he had no knowledge of my being associated with the

Mr. Pool. Did Governor Wallace talk to you about your investiga-
tive work ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; we talked that one time.

Mr. Pool. Would you care to relate the circumstances of the things
he told you, or the things you told him, and tell the committee what
happened ?

Mr. RoTON. It was just a brief conversation, and I stated that ear-
lier, sir, that

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3201

Mr. Pool. After you went to work for the committee, you talked
to Governor Wallace?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir; I have talked to him.

Mr. Pool. Wliat did you talk about ?

Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge, I don't think I saw the
Governor for 4 or 5 or 6 months.

Mr. Pool. Did you tell him about the results of your investigation ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir. I had knowledge of that.

Mr. Pool. Did he have any suggestions?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir.

Mr. Pool. Well, what did the Governor say to you ?

Mr. RoTON. On what time? At what time, sir?

Mr. Pool. Well, you said that you talked to the Governor several
times. What was the conversation about?

Mr. RoTON. Well, sir, I don't think you could — a constituent

Mr. Pool. Well, I asked you a while ago if he talked to you about
the investigation, and you said he did. Now I am asking what did
he say in regard to the investigation.

Mr. RoTON. Well, it was just a brief convei^ation. To the best of
my knowledge, I didn't give him any lengthy reports or anything like
that.

Mr. Pool. Did he tell you how to go about investigating or what to
look into, or an}i:hing like that?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir; made no suggestions at all.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead.

Mr. Buchanan. Perhaps you can tell the committee the kind of
investigation you conducted for the State committee as disassociated
with whatever you were doing unknown to them for the Klan. Sim-
ply what was this investigation you did for them ?

Mr. RoTON. For the committee?

Mr. Buchanan. Yes.

Mr. RoTON. For the committee was checking on the different civil
rights groups in the Birmingham area during the 1963 demonstrations,
make tape recordings and photographs of it, and turning them over to
the committee.

Mr. Appell. What year did you say, 1964 ?

Mr. RoTON. 1963, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did Robert Shelton ever talk to Governor Wallace about
you working for this committee?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did any other of the officials of the Ku Klux Klan talk
to Governor Wallace in regard to your working for this committee?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did you ask any of the Klan officials to talk to Governor
Wallace?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir, not to the best of my recollection, I never have.

Mr. Pool. Did you ask any of the officials of the Ku Klux Klan
to talk to any of the committee members about hiring you?

Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge, I don't remember.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Now what specifically did you do in 1963 for the
committee ?

3202 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. EoTON. Made tape recordings and took pictures of the demon-
strations.

Mr. Appell. Well, let's be a little specific. As to pictures that you
took: where, what affair was going on, and what did you do? Not
just generalities. Tell me specifically.

Mr. RoTON. I attended the demonstrations and made pictures of
the marchers, individuals in the marches, and I identified them when
we could, and

Mr. Appell. What type of identification ?

Mr. EoTON. By naming the person and finding out what he is
from.

Mr. Appell. What else did you do for the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. What do you mean, sir ?

Mr. Appell. What other investigative work did you do for the
committee? What other functions did you perform for them?

Mr. RoTON. That's just about it, sir.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. The committee will stand in recess until two o'clock.

( Subcommittee members present at time of recess : Representatives
Pool and Buchanan.)

(Whereupon, at 1 p.m., Tuesday, February 8, 1966, the subcommittee
recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day. )

AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1966

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :15 p.m., Hon. Joe R. Pool, chair-
man of the subcommittee, presiding.)

( Subcommittee members present : Representatives Pool and Buchan-
an.)

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.

The Chair recognizes Mr. Buchanan.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman, during the luncheon recess I talked
to State Representative John Hawkins from Birmingham, and he is
chairman of the Alabama Legislative Commission To Preserve The
Peace.

I myself was confused on this point. This is a commission of the
legislature and this is the outfit by which this witness was briefly
employed when the commission was formed, and it is the only one
there is. I thought there was a legislative committee and a commis-
sion which was separate, but it is all the Alabama Legislative Com-
mission To Preserve The Peace, which is a legislative conmiission
chaired by Representative John Hawkins of Birmingham.

When the commission was formed, they needed a good photographer.
Mr. Roton was recommended to Mr. Hawkins by friends in Mont-
gomery who knew of his work with Jim Walter, and Mr. Hawkins
thought this was his only employment or connection, had no knowl-
edge of any Klan affiliation, and had he known it, Mr. Hawkins states,
they never would have hired Mr. Roton. He was hired temporarily.
He worked on a particular assignment for some 6 months or so for the

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3203

Alabama Legislative Commission To Preserve The Peace. At no
time did they have any know]edg:e of his Klan affiliation. Mr. Haw-
kins has requested, Mr. Chairman, and I would like to request, that
he write us to this effect and that that be included in the record of
the proceedings.

Mr. Pool. If there is no objection, it will be printed in the record
at this point.

(Mr. Hawkins' letter dated February 9, 1966, marked "Ralph
Roton Exhibit No. 1." The letter follows :)

Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 1

Alabama Legislative Commission To Preserve The Peace

ROOM 332 STATE CAPITOL
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA

rrtr-rrEiotiM iMi ivt jui-irN 1-1. i-i«yYiMiN3 ^ i ^^ ^ EDWI N STRICKLAND

CHAIRMAN February 9> 1966 staff director

SENATOR JAMES S. CLARK MRS. MAVIS HICKS

SENATOR E. O. EDDINS
REPRESENTATIVE ALTON TURNER
REPRESENTATIVE HUGH A. LOCKE

Hon. John Buchanan > R-.41a.
U . S. House of hepres?ntatives
House Office Building
Washington! D. C.

Dear Congressman "^uch-^nan:

In accordance v;ith our convars&tion, I w nt to clarify th-i
matter of tastirnony of ivilph "-oton, v.'ho h £ bj^n a vltness before

i'lr. AOton, a free-lsnce photographer, was e.Tiplo: ed by the 'com-
mission in fiay, 1963 > and his employment was terminated in October,
1963o i'lnal payment for his services and for equipment he had pur-
chased, was made in January, I964.

During his services, i-lr. Roton did not do any investigative work
other than making some tape recordings and photographs. He at no
time has had any access to confidential files of the Coramiscion.
vv e did not know at any time during his rervice that he had any con-
nection vd.th the KKK. Had we Known of such connection, his services
would not have been used.

Sincerely

John K. Hawkins, Jr;
Chairman

3204 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Pool. All right, Mr. Appell, proceed.

TESTIMONY OF RALPH RAY ROTON— Resumed

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, how long, in fact, were you employed by
the Commission To Preserve The Peace ?

Mr. RoTON. It was approximately 6 months' total. I would say, sir,
there was quite a few times that it was 2 or 3 days at a time gathering
information.

Mr. Appell. Well, will you explain to us the conditions of your
employment? You say 2 or 3 days at a time gathering information.
Were you on a free-lance assignment to gather information as you
came upon it and then turn it over to the commission, or were you
employed — what were the conditions of your employment?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I guess you could say it was more or less a con-
tractual agreement. There was nothing ever in writing and I did
specific work for Mr. Hawkins under his direct supervision. Of course,
being in the business yourself, things come up from time to time that
you will get an assignment, short coverage, and go perform the assign-
ment and bring the information back.

Mr. Appell. Wliat was your rate of compensation as an employee of
the commission ?

Mr. RoTON. That never did come to pass, sir, as to where I was ever
paid any salary. I furnished expenses and came to an agreement at
the end that I never did quite receive all my expenses that I paid while
doing this work from the State of Alabama. You couldn't classify
as salary.

Mr. Appell. Well, did you have a contract that you were going to
be reimbursed at a certain rate of pay per day, upon a per diem basis,
or under any kind of agreement ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you have any source of income other than what in-
come you received from the commission at that time?

Mr. RoTON. Some of this w^ork w^as done while I was still employed
with this company, sir, and for approximately 21/2 months there I
didn't have any other, just money from this commission here. How-
ever, it was held up until the funds were appropriated.

Mr. Appell. Can you explain to the committee how you could be
employed by Jim Walter Corporation and carry on investigative func-
tions for the legislative commission both at the same time ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, when I went full time with them was in August
'63, after I resigned from the corporation which we specified before
and, as I told you before, I was only required to work a number of
hours a day with this company.

Mr. Pool. Talk a little louder.

Mr. RoTON. And after the normal duty hours, I did perform these
extra duties for Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. Appell. You resigned from Jim Walter Corporation in August
of 1963? f &

Mr. Roton. Correct, sir?

Mr. Appell. Did you have any source of income between August of
1963 and January 1, 1964, other than income you received from the
commission ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3205

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. None whatsoever ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. You testified this morning that you incurred expenses
out of your own pocket for which you waited for reimbursement.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Would you enumerate to the committee some of the
out-of-pocket expense that you incurred and the amount of this out-
of-pocket expense that you incurred ?

Mr. RoTON. Do you mean the trips ?

Mr. Appell. Well, trips, purchase of equipment, film, cameras, or
anything else.

Mr. RoTON. Well, sir, I did buy some equipment for the commission
and equipment that would be needed to perform those duties.

Mr. Appell. Did you make this determination of the equipment
needed, or did someone on the commission make the determination?

Mr. RoTON. They furnished a part of the equipment, and I pur-
chased more and it was between

Mr. Appell. What did they furnish and what did you purchase?

Mr. RoTON. I think I purchased two or three cameras.

Mr. Appell. This is what you purchased ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. All right, sir.

Mr. RoTON. Two tape recorders.

Mr. Appell. Two of them ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; an FM radio. This was of the low frequency
band for police and radio calls.

Mr. Appell. Why did you need that ?

Mr. RoTON. To monitor calls, sir.

Mr. Appell. To monitor police calls ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. How did that assist you in your investigative function
in behalf of the commission ?

Mr. RoTON. To answer certain calls. It might be a civil disturbance,
as well as to take pictures of it and turn them over to the commission.

Mr. Appell. You were on a 24-hour assignment for the commission ?
I thought you just worked a couple days here and a couple days there.

Mr. RoTON. Well,

Mr. Appell. When did you go full time \

Mr. RoTON. In August.

Mr. Appell. And in August of 1963 you went full time with them,
but you had no agreement with respect to salary?

Mr. RoTON. That was to be worked out as soon as the first commit-
tee meeting was to be held. It was a new committee, sir, and the funds
were not appropriated. However, as you remember

Mr. Appell. Wliat was eventually worked out?

Mr. RoTON. That I just received the expenses that I had incurred
so far.

Mr. Appell. Were you directed to purchase a low frequency FM
transmitter or radio for the purpose of monitoring police calls?

Mr. RoTON. I was not required to, sir, but Mr. Hawkins had one in
his car and he told me that it would be good if I had one, and I pur-
chased one to answer the calls.

3206 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. What else did you purchase ?

Mr. RoTON, Sir, I don't remember. I would have to refer to the
list, and which I do not have it with me.

Mr. Appell. Did you also purchase a radio transmitter?

Mr. EoTON. Wliat type, sir?

Mr. Appell. I don't know. It costs $75.92. Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir. Mr. Appell. What was that one for? Mr. RoTON. That was a citizens band radio to monitor calls. Mr. Appell. Do you have a license from the Federal Communica- tions Commission to operate a citizens band radio? Mr. RoTON. No, sir; I do not because you are not required to have one just to monitor calls. Mr. Appell. You are not required ? Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; and I did not transmit. Mr. Appell. What was the other radio equipment that cost you$209.09 ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember offhand, sir.

Mr. Appell, Did you report in your 1963 tax returns that your com-
pensation from the Commission To Preserve The Peace was $2,289.99 and that your expenses were$2,970.47, making you sustain a loss during
the year of 1963 of $680.48? Mr. RoTON. Mr. Chairman, we can go on and on into this. This is personal income and expenses received therefor, and I think in my own judgment it is privileged information as this is not — a return was filed with the proper agency of the Federal Government and the return w^as given back. If they have any discrepancy, I think that I would be called before them to rectify my situation. Mr. Pool. Restate your question. Mr. Appell. I asked him if he reported that his income from the commission in the year 1963 was$2,289.99. That his expenses were
$2,970.47, or a net loss of$680.48. I request that the witness be

Mr. Pool. I rule that the question is pertinent and the witness will

Mr. RoTON. Are you referring to the 1963 return ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir, I am.

Mr. Pool. You don't have to furnish the whole return. You just

Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge it was.

(Income Tax Return for the Year 1963 marked "Ralph Roton
Exhibit No. 2" and retained in committee files.)

Mr. Appell. And were the expenses listed by you on the schedule:
recorder, film, tapes, and supplies $901.36; away from home expenses$147; telephone $19.80; police monitor$104; film developing ^3.80;
cameras $272; aircraft mileage and tickets$570; cab fares $27.50; radio transmitter$75.92; radio $209.09; auto expenses 7,000 miles at 10 cents a mile,$700 ? Is that factual ?

Mr. RoTON. That is to the best of my knowledge and belief, sir.

Mr. Appell. When did you file a tax return covering your 1963
income ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I had to file that twice and I filed the first return
that was apparently lost and I contacted the Internal Revenue Serv-

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3207

ice in regard to it, and they stated they could not find it. I filed a
duplicate return in, and I don't remember when; at a later date.

Mr. Appell. Did you file a return prior to the due date, April
15, 1964, for your 1963 income?

Mr. RoTON. Did I file it prior to the due date ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, April 15, 1964. Did you file a personal income
tax return covering your income for the year 1963 ?

Mr. RoTON. I am confused here now. Both returns were filed at
the same time as I explained to the Internal Revenue Service. Mr.
Waldrop in Birmingham

Mr, Appell. I am asking you if you filed a tax return covering
the year 1963 prior to the due date of April 15, 1964, I am not ask-
ing you about the second one you filed. I am asking you about a
first one.

Mr. RoTON. For '63, yes, sir. That return was lost, and I filed a
duplicate return.

Mr, Pool. He asked you if you filed it. He didn't ask you whether
it was lost or not.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr, Pool. Before the due date ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr, Pool. All right.

Mr, Appell, Can you explain to the committee why, when for
the year 1963 you had claimed a refund of $482,50, that you never filed a claim for that money until some time in 1965, when you were contacted by the Internal Revenue Service ? Mr, RoTON, Sir, we have on record at home where we contacted the Internal Revenue Service and, sir, this doesn't serve — I don't hope you can pass any legislation against me filing my income tax and Mr, Pool, What is the question ? Mr. Appell. The question is can he explain to the committee why, when he had a$482.50 tax refund due him on his 1963 return, he did
not contact the Internal Revenue Service for this refund until they
contacted him about his 1963 tax return.

Mr, RoTON. We did, sir, and w^e have a copy of a letter in my income
tax file at home to the Internal Revenue Service, stating such, we

Mr. Appell. What was the date of that letter? Do you remember,
sir?

Mr. RoTON. I do not remember, sir.

Mr, Appell, In your 1964 personal income tax return, did you re-
port income from the Commission To Preserve The Peace of $1,016 ? Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir. Mr. Appell. That your total compensation that you receive from this period of 6 months' employment was the difference between$1,016,
which you reported in 1964 and $680 which you lost in 1963, or less than$500 for 6 months' employment ? Is that your testimony ?

Mr. RoTON. That is to the best of my knowledge and ability and
according to the records that we have, sir.

(Income Tax Return for the Year 1964 marked "Ralph Roton Ex-
hibit No. 3" and retained in committee files.)

3208 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. You testified that one of the functions that you per-
formed for the commission was to cover some racial demonstrations
in Birmingham, Alabama, in the year 1963.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. What other investigative function did you perform for
the commission ?

Mr. RoTON. Different meetings and demonstrations there in
Birmingham ?

Mr. Appell. Can you tell us a few of them ?

Mr, RoTON. I can't offhand. I will have to refer back to my personal
records at home, sir.

Mr. Pool. The question that occurs to me is this : Was the State of
Alabama paying you for investigating for the United Klans?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; definitely not.

Mr. Pool. That is really what the question is. You claim the State
of Alabama, but you are a member of the United Klans and you are an
undercover agent for them. You had two masters, so to speak. Wliich
one were you really working for? I know who paid you, but whom
were you working for ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I am working to preserve the Constitution of the
United States of America, and that is my dedicated belief and that is
my stand and I will not compromise.

Mr. Pool. That is a very admirable stand, and I appreciate your
being that way about the Constitution, but we are trying to find out
now just what the situation is. Is the State of Alabama supporting the
Ku Klux Klan by helping their investigators investigate?

Mr. RoTON. Very definitely not, sir. The State of Alabama to my
knowledge and my belief had no knowledge of my membership in
the United Klans of America.

Mr. Pool. You know, I was an investigator in World War PI and,
boy, they investigated me. They went to all my neighbors up and
down the street asking if I got drunk, asking if I beat my wife. They
asked them a lot of pertinent questions about me before they let me
be an investigator for the United States Army, and I was very proud
to have been passed on the security.

I can't imderstand why they don't have an investigation of the in-
vestigators. That is what I am getting at right now.

Mr. RoTON. Maybe, sir, it came to pass

Mr. Pool. What?

Mr. RoTON. Maybe it came to pass, sir, that I was available at that
time.

Mr. Pool. They were in a big huri-y and they didn't have time to
investigate ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know what position the commission was in, but
I had the information

Mr. Pool. That is what I want you to explain if you can. I think
it might be better to lay it out here in the open.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Roton, how many people would say knew you
to be an undercover agent of the Ku Klux Klan or in any way affiliated
with the Ku Klux Klan at that time?

Mr. RoTON. To my knowledge, not very many.

Mr. Pool. Robert Shelton knew you were, didn't he?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3209

Mr. KoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. And all the Grand Dragons did ?

Mr. RoTON. Not all of them ; no, sir.

Mr. Pool. Several, if not all of them ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. Several of them?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. One?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. One Grand Dragon ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Two?

Mr. RoTON. Possibly.

Mr. Pool. Do you care to name any more ?

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Creel knew I was.

Mr. Pool. All right.

Mr. Buchanan. Was there any reason for any of your employers
to possess this information or anybody who may have recommended
you for employment to possess this information unless Mr. Shelton
happened to recommend you or somebody which we don't have any

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Buchanan, to my knowledge not over five or six
people in the State of Alabama knew that I was affiliated with the
United Klans of America, five or six, and it could be possibly seven
or eight, but no more than that, and that is to my knowledge.

Mr. Appell. Did the United Klans of America share knowledge
that you gained as an employee of the commission ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir; for certain specific information.

Mr. Appell. You mean you were gathering information under the
cloak of the Commission To Preserve The Peace and you were turning
tlie results of this over to the United Klans of America?

Mr. RoTON. Not tlie results. After they were published and pub-
licly identified, I was. I had this in my possession and actually it is
my personal information. They paid me for copies thereof, not the
originals.

Mr. Appell. Who paid you ?

Mr. RoTON. The commission.

Mr. Appell. Wlien did you supply this information to the United
Klans of America ?

Mr. RoTON. At periodic times, sir.

Mr. Appell. During your employment?

Mr. RoTON. Not that I can recall during my employment. It may
have been.

Mr. Appell. Did you discuss with Robert Shelton the results of the
work that you were doing for this commission and what you were dis-
covering as its investigator?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, the bounds of that could overlap one another be-
cause I was engaged in the investigation prior to my employment with
the commission and thereafter.

Mr. Appell. Weren't you an agent of Mr. Shelton's while you were
employed?

Mr.'RoTON. Sir?

3210 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell. Weren't you an agent of Mr. Shelton's while you were
employed by the commission ?

Mr. KoTON. I don't think you could term that as an agent, Mr.
Appell. I believe in the presentation of the Constitution of the United
States of America. And anything that I could do to preserve that,
it is my duty to do it, not as an agent, but as an American.

Mr. Pool. Did you investigate any bombings or threats of violence
and other things that were going on down there in Alabama? Did
you do any investigating like that for the commission ?

Mr. RoTox. I was present the day that the 16th Street Baptist
Church was bombed, approximately 30 or 40 minutes thereafter to
make pictures of it ; yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. What did you find out ?

Mr. RoTON. Nothing that day, sir. I have heard statements in the
past that could have some bearing on the bombing of the 16th Street
Baptist Church.

Mr, Pool. You have any idea the Ku Klux Klan might have been
engaged in that ?

Mr. RoTON. Do you want my opinion, sir?

Mr. Pool. Yes. That is what we are up here for.

Mr. RoTON". I don^t think they did, in my judgment, because I was
down there-— —

Mr. Pool. Whom do you think did it?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know, sir.

Mr. Pool. Do you think the Communists did it ?

Mr. RoTON. There is a possibility. I can read you some state-
ments that I have available.

Mr. Pool. What ground do you have for saying that ?

Mr. RoTON. Well, I can read you some statements that have been
documented and turned over to the commission and the FBI when
they asked me what information I had about the bombing of the 16th
Street Baptist Church, if you would like to hear them, sir.

Mr. Pool. Surely. Go right ahead.

Mr. RoTON. James Bevel, field secretary for Southern Christian
Leadership Council, made a statement at the Unitarian Church in the
latter part of 1963 stating, "The bombings in Birmingham will stop
when we get what we want."

Mr. Appell. Let me interrupt you there. Where was this state-

Mr. RoTON. In the Unitarian Church in Birmingham, Alabama.

Mr. Appell. Were you present ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And what knowledge do you have? I mean how do
you document this statement?

Mr. RoTON. By myself.

Mr. Appell. And when was this ?

Mr. KoTON. This was in '63. I don't liave the date with me, sir,
but this information was turned over to the Commission To Preserve
The Peace.

Mr. Pool. Did you have a tape recorder ?

Mr. RoTON. Not a tape recorder on this one, sir. On the next one
I did.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3211

Mr. Appell. What I want to know is, when was this statement
made and where was the meeting held and who were present.

Mr. RoTON. It was held on a Smiday night, the later part of 1963.
I don't remember the date. If I recall right it was in July or August
in 1963.

Mr. Appell. Who turned that statement in to the commission ?

Mr. RoTON. I did, sir.

Mr. Appell. You did. Well, now, the 16th Street bombing was
September. This was in advance of that. How does this document
when the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed ?

Mr. RoTON. Well, there were several bombings in Birmingham, sir.

Mr. Appell. Let me ask you, as a member of the Ivlan Bureau of
Investigation, as an investigator employed by them, what investiga-
tion did you make and as an employee of the commission to determine
rhe people who were involved in the actual bombings ?

Mr. RoTON. I wasn't assigned to make an investigation, sir, but I
furnished all of the pictures of the people present on the day that the
church was bombed, and they are in the hands of the Commission To
Preserve The Peace at this time.

Mr. Appell. But this is after the fact. You took pictures of dam-
age that was caused?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. I am asking you what investigation you did do to de-
termine who was responsible.

Mr. RoTON. That wasn't my assignment, sir, but I

Mr. Appell. You told us before that you didn't have any assign-
ments; that whenever situations arose, ^ou on your own initiative on
behalf of the commission made investigations.

Mr. RoTON. This particular morning, on September 16, 1963, 1 was
called and directed to go there by Mr. Hawkins.

Mr. Appell. And he just wanted you to take the pictures and then

Mr. RoTON. Take the j^ictures and furnish them with the pictures.
The FBI, I am sure, has seen the same pictures. In fact, I have of-
fered those pictures to the FBI if they care to go over them and look
at them.

Mr. Appell. How many members, to your knowledge, of the United
Klans of America were interrogated with respect to the bombing of
the 16th Street Baptist Church?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know how many, sir.

Mr. Appell. Well, which ones to your knowledge were?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know, sir.

Mr. Appell.. You don't know any?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my Imowledge. I know there were many people
interrogated.

Mr. Appell. I am asking you about members of the United Klans
of America. You are a member of the United Klans of America.
You were representmg a commission. You were an investigator of
the United Klans of America. You mean you had no concern with
who was being interrogated in this matter of this bombing?

Mr. RoTON. Well, I certainly did, sir, but I didn't have any infor-
mation to offer. If I had, I w^ould have given it to the proper authori-
ties.

3212 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Appell,. Then you possess no knowledge as to the identity of
the United Klansmen who were interrogated in connection with that
bombing ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, the word or the definition of "Klans" has been at-
tached to too many things that it doesn't belong to.

Mr. Appell. I am only speaking about the United Klans of Amer-
ica, an organization of which you were a member, an organization of
which you w^ere an investigator. I am not speaking about any other
Klan. I am speaking about that one and members of it whom you
knew to be Klansmen because you yourself were a Klansman.

Mr. RoTON. I don't know , sir.

Mr. Pool. Were any of the other investigators hired by this legis-
lative commission?

Mr. RoTON. I understand there was. I do not know that to be a
certainty.

Mr. Pool. Who were they ?

Mr. RoTON. The staff director now is — I can't think of his name,
but he has been employed shortly after I left in

Mr. Buchanan. Ed Strickland.

Mr. RoTON. Ed Strickland ; yes, sir.

Mr. Pool, Let me ask you this : Were any other Klansmen made
investigators for this commission ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir. I was the only outside man.

Mr. Pool. Know^ingly or unknowingly, I am talking about.

Mr. RoTON. To my knowledge, no, sir.

Mr. Pool. No other Klansmen ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. At the time of this bombing Mr. Creel was not the
Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America, Realm of Alabama,
was he, sir ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir, he wasn't.

Mr. Appell. Wlio was the Grand Dragon at that time ?

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Hubert Page.

Mr. Appell. To your knowledge, was Mr. Hubert Page one of
those questioned w^ith respect to the 16th Street bombing?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Appell. You have no knowledge of it ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know whether you speak

Mr. Appell. You have no knowledge of it, sir?

Mr. RoTON. Are you speaking of whether he was questioned?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir, I am speaking about whether he was ques-
tioned and asking you, do you possess knowledge of it.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, I imagine he was.

Mr. Appell, I am asking you do you have knowledge, not whether
he was.

Mr. RoTON, Let me recall just a minute. Your direct question w.as,
Was Mr. Hubert Page questioned in connection with the bombing of
the 16th Street Baptist Church ? Is that correct ?

Mr, Appell. No, sir; my question was. Do you have knowledge that
he was questioned ?

Mr. RoTON. I vaguely recall he was.

Mr. Appell. As an Imperial Investigator of the United Klans of
America and as an employee of the commission, did you attempt to

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3213

interrogate Mr. Page as to whether or not he had any responsibility
in connection with that ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir; I didn't.

Mr. Appell. I thought you were interested in preserving the Con-
stitution of the United States.

Mr. RoTON. I am sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you have any interest as an employee of the com-
mission in any acts of intimidation or harassment or threats carried out
by members of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. RoTOK. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. What was the legislative purpose of this legislative
commission ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember the law verbatim, sir, but it was to
investigate and to determine the subversive activities Avithin the State
of Alabama and to bring such, evidence forth to the commission, and
they had subpena power to call hearings at any time, to pass legislation.

Mr. Pool. What kind of subversive activity? Can you spell it
out?

Mr. RoTON, Any subversive activity. Subversive means

Mr. Pool. Whether it was the Ku Klux Klan or CORE or whoever
it was ?

Mr. RoTON. It would cover all of it.

Mr. Pool. Right.

Mr. Appell. In 1963 at the time of the 16th Street Baptist Church
bombing, who were the other officers of the Realm of Alabama of the
United Klans of America in addition to Mr. Hubert A. Page ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir. I didn't attend meetings vei-y
much. I don't know. Most of my work was outside.

Mr. Appell. What was your relationship with Robert Thomas ?

Mr. RoTON. I know Mr. Thomas.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever carry out a function in the interest of
the United Klans of America as a result of direction of Mr. Thomas ?

Mr. RoTON. Not at the direction ; no, sir.

Mr. Appell. Well, will you explain "not at the direction; no, sir"?

Mr. RoTON. I know Mr. Thomas and know him to be a Klansman
because he has told me so.

Mr. Appell. You know him to be titan, Province No. 3, don't you ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir; I know that, I also know him to be a fairly
reputable gentleman that has never indicated to me that he would
break the law.

Mr. Pool. I don't know if you have asked this question or not, but
I am going to ask it now for the record : Did you at any time partici-
pate in any act of violence, threats, intimidation, while you were a
member of the Klan ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Hubert Page was replaced as Grand Dragon by
Mr. Robert Creel. You testified earlier that Mr. Creel knew you to
be a Klansman. Did you know him to be the Grand Dragon?

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Creel?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And what other officers of the Realm of Alabama of
the United Klans of America did you know in addition to Mr. Creel ?

3214 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I couldn't say to be specific. I could not say a
man is a Klansman. It would be an impossibility. I know many
people and to say that they were Klansmeri I could not say beyond a
reasonable doubt with all certainty.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever attend a State convention of the Realm
of Alabama at which officers were elected ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Well, now, who were elected at the meeting that you
attended ?

Mr. RoTON. Now, I remember this last one where Mr. Brassell ^ was
elected Grand Dragon of the State of Alabama.

Mr. Appell. And this was a meeting held in January ?

Mr. RoTON. I believe it was early January ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. What other officers were elected at that meeting ?

Mr. RoTON. That I don't remember, because I didn't pay any atten-
tion and I was in and out.

Mr. Appell. You don't know the identity of another officer elected
in January?

Mr. RoTON. I couldn't say beyond a reasonable doubt with all cer-
tainty ; no, sir.

Mr. Appell. I don't understand what you mean that you can't say
it without a question of certainty. You were there, weren't you?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. You were there when the elections were held ?

Mr. RoTON. In and out ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. All right. You mean the only time that you were in
the room was when Mr. Brassell was elected to replace Mr. Creel ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. That's the only time you were present, just that one
office?

Mr. RoTON. That was the only office I was interested in at that
time.

Mr. Appell. Tliat wasn't answering my question.

Mr. RoTON. I was only at that meeting just a very short time.

Mr. Appell. Were you present when any other man was elected to
an office in the Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. RoTON. I was not in the immediate room ; no, sir.

Mr. Appell. Were you a delegate to that convention ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr, Appell. Did you have a vote?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. How do you have a vote and not be a delegate ?

Mr. RoTON. As I stated before, I was past publications director, an
appointed position by the previous Grand Dragon. All officers have
a vote.

Mr. Appell. As an appointed officer, were you a member of the
Kloncilium ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know what you are talking about, sir.

Mr. Appell. Well, the constitution and bylaws claimed the klon-
cilium to be a meeting of the imperial officers and others of the Klan.
Did you ever attend any meetings of the imperial officers ?

1 William P. Brassell.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3215

Mr, RoTON. I am not an imperial officer, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever attend any meeting of imperial officers?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge ; no, sir.

Mr. Appell. Is Mr. Melvin Sexton the klabee, or secretary, of the
Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't know, sir.

Mr. Appell. Or kligrapp — I am sorry — or secretaiy. You don't
know?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. Have you ever had a discussion with Melvin Sexton
about a position that he might hold ?

Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Appell. Are you acquainted with UKA Confederate Lodge
#11?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Will you tell the committee what the UKA Confederate
Lodge #11 is?

Mr. RoTON. That was a Montgomery lodge.

Mr. Appell. No, I am talking about Post Office Box 113, Bessemer,
Alabama.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. All right, sir.

Mr. RoTON. That it was a Montgomery lodge at that time and a post
office box was set up in Bessemer, Alabama, for the State office use in
regards to collecting, or having a banquet, rather, in Birmingham.

Mr. Appell. Having a what, sir ?

Mr. RoTON. Having a banquet.

Mr. Appell. A banquet?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. When was this banquet planned ?

Mr. RoTON. If I am not mistaken, in August of last year, sir;
August.

Mr. Appell. And this post office box was set up for that purpose?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Why was it necessary to set up this box for the pur-
pose of holding a banquet ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, there were tickets sold to the banquet, and the
money was delivered back through that post office box ?

Mr. Appell. And you are the one that was, in fact, the applicant for
the post office box ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

(Application for P.O. box marked "Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 4"
appears on p. 3216.)

Mr. Appell. Did this Confederate Lodge office operate a bank
account ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And were you a cosigner to that bank account ?

Mr. RoTON. I was a cosigner, sir, but I never signed any checks.

Mr. Appeli.. And I show you a copy of a signature card filed with
the City National Bank of Birmingham, Birmingham, Alabama, and

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4-

3216 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 4

FOR

POST OFFICE

USE ONLY

POSTMASTEM

BMteaar , Jaabsaa

CMTl I

7-20-65

113

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United Klana of Aaerlca

KINO or B«JSINESS

United Klano of Aaeriea

•

BUSINESS AODKESS (No. »lmt, mnd ZIf eodtl)

UU Brighton Rd. Midfield,

AlabaMi 35228

TtLEPMOWW.

ia$.^739 788-6729 HOME ADDRESS (Wo , ttr—t. and ZIf eodo) eaae TELEPHONE NO. SIGNATURE Of AffttCAMT X(SiKned) Raliii Itoton UATI or AmjCATION 7-20-65 TELEPHONE NUMKRS VERiriEO iV For Poit OfRc* Vw» Only ENTERED IN DIRECTORY INITIALS OF CURK J6G JBG 113 THE FOLLOWING MUST BE COMPLETED AND SIGNED BEFORE P O BOX IS ASSIGNED SHOW NAME IN WHKH aOX 1$ RENTED WHCN OTHER THAN NAME OF APfLKAMT

I ACCORDANCE WITH INSTRUCTIONS CHECKED BELOW

D

DELIVERY IN BOX

D

SPECIAL DELIVERY MAIL ONLY (D»/iV«r jM chmektd bulow)
I I DELIVER TO LOCAL RESIDENCE AT

~~~ ~ (No-, »tr»mt, mnd ZIP codm)

D

(No., ttroH, mnd ZIP coda)

ILL COMPLY WITH THEM.

X (aignwd) ftilTTh Roton

(Signatitrm Ol applicant)

POD FORM inQO
Oct 1964 ' ^^<J

APPLICATION FOR POST OFFICE BOX

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3217

ask you if the name Rotoii appears there as your signature?
Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.
(Document marked "Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 5" follows:)

Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 5

United Klans of America Confederate -^^ o .' . ^

-LodPo # 11 g? J^^'O^/'P

P. 0.' Box 113 D,t. cf - ^ -<^^^

Bessemer, Alaba-ria ' „,„,„,„, ^ <?^. j'Z)

.°^

30 NOT WRITE ^OVC/

2 ^^^-^.J^t.':^...^^^

L. _of the .above signatures ;

jned by No's.

of the opening of th
IS sti3 coaditionsTxi reverse side hereof.

Phones .J^j'-^.<r^::7.3_%..

Checks to be signed by No's. and countersigned by No's .

In consideration of the opening of this Account in and its maintenpnce by City National Banl< of Bii
agree to all ttrms s^ c<}»ditions"Dp reversje side iiereqf.

Former Bank Account With _ .

FORM SO s Corporation or Other Organization Card

Mr. AppELii. And what was the purpose for which that account was
opened ?

Mr. RoTON. To deposit the money that was derived from the tickets.

Mr. Appell. And what disbursement was made of the money de-
posited in that account?

Mr. Roton. I do not know, sir.

Mr. Appell. Where was the banquet held ?

Mr. RoTON. Tutwiler Hotel.

Mr. Appell. Can you explain to the committee why there is no pay-
ment against this account to the Tutwiler Hotel and that the only two
checks that have any relationship to hotels is one of October 7, 1965, to
the Hotel Admiral Semmes in the amount of $25.00 and one of Octo- ber 9, 1965, to the Hotel Admiral Semmes in the amount of$45.00,
which was bounced for not sufficient funds ?

Mr. RoTON-. I don't know, sir. The banquet was paid by the Grand
Dragon, I understood.

(Checks marked "Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 6" and retained in com-
mittee files.)

Mr. Appell. Here is a check of September 2, 1965, payable to cash
and endorsed "Robert M. Creel." The notation on the check states,
"for attorney fees."

Mr. RoToisr. That could possibly be, sir.

(Check marked "Ralph Roton Exhibit No. 7" and retained in com-
mittee files.)

Mr. Appell. Be for what, sir I

Mr. RoTON. Attorney fees.

Mr. Appell. Attorney fees for what ?

3218 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. RoTON. It could be for the attorney that was hired in the Wil-
kins case.

Mr. Appell. Did you know Collie Leroy Wilkins and Eugene
Thomas and W. O. Eaton to be Klansmen ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; I could not say beyond a reasonable doubt and
moral certainty whether they are or they are not.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever have a discussion with Robert Shelton
with respect to their defense, with respect to the three individuals?

Mr. RoTON. In Mr. Murphy's office, the past counsel for United
Klans of America, who is now deceased, I was present the day that the
three men were brought back into the office. I heard what they said
there and I also heard what the President of the United States said,
that he was going to break the back of the United Klans of America.

Mr. Appell. What did the three men say there ?

Mr. RoTON. I testified in court what Mr. Rowe directed his question
to me. I looked up and what he told me, I testified in Federal court

Mr. Appell. I asked you what did the other three men say ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember. It was just general conversation.

Mr. Appell. How can you remember what Mr. Rowe said and not
remember what the others said ?

Mr. RoTON. Well, my name was called, as I testified in court, sir, and
I looked at Mr. Rowe and Mr. Rowe told me, directed that question at
me, looking at me as I am looking at you. He told me that, and I
testified to what he told me in court.

Mr. Appell. We are talking about now at this meeting that you
brought up that was held in the office of Matt Murphy when three
Klansmen came in. Now, I assume that Mr. Rowe was not present at
that meeting.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir, Mr. Rowe was present.

Mr. Appell. All right. Who else was present at that meeting in
Mr. Murphy's office?

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Murphy, myself, Robert Shelton, Robert Creel,
Robert Thomas, Thomas Rowe, Mr. Thomas' son. Miss Dorothy Krock.

Mr. Appell. And what was the subject of the conversation there?

Mr. RoTON. The three men had just been released from jail. They
had been accused by the President of the United States of being at the
scene when Viola Liuzzo was killed between Selma and Montgomery.

Mr. Appell. Continue, sir.

Mr. RoTON. You asked why the meeting

Mr. Appell. No; I said what transpired at the meeting. I want
to know what was said at the meeting.

Mr. RoTON. In generalities I spoke to Mr. Shelton, Mr. Creel, and I
wasn't there but a very short time and I left. Mr. Murphy — oh, let's
see. I don't remember offhand, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever make an investigation of any individual
which resulted in an act of intimidation or violence against the in-
dividual that you made an investigation of? I am not asking you if
you were involved in it.

Mr. Appell. Did you ever make an investigation of an individual
that an act of intimidation or violence was carried out against after
you made the investigation ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3219

Mr. KoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. Talk a little louder.

Mr. RoTON. No, sir. You mean did I ever as the attorney general
of the State of Alabama — I think I know what you are referring to^ —
listed me as being head of the KBI, which is detinitely incorrect, and
implicated me in the civil rights murders, bombings, and other things.
It IS very, very untrue, a vicious insinuation, and he knows it to be
such.

Mr. Appell. AVell, who Avas head of the Klan Bureau of Investiga-
tion?

Mr. RoTox. That is just a name that was derived, I think, from a
speech that ISIr. Shelton made at a public rally some time back.

Mr. Appell. In which he gave you that honor ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir. He has never given me any honor about that.
I have been associated as an investigator of the United Klans of
America.

Mr. Appell. What have you investigated for the United Klans of
America specifically upon the directions of Robert Shelton?

Mr. RoTON. Different things.

Mr. Appell. Well, let's not say different things; let's enumerate
some of the things that you have investigated.

Mr. RoTON. Washington march.

Mr. Appell. You testified before that you did that upon

Mr. Pool. Wait just a minute. What were the results of your Wash-
ington march investigation ? What did you turn in ?

Mr. RoTON. Tape recordings, pictures, and identified as many as pos-
sible to the Commission To Preserve The Peace.

Mr. Pool. Tape recordings and pictures of whom ?

Mr. RoTON. One Bayard Rustin, Martin Luther King, John Lewis,
Aaron Henry, group shots.

Mr. Pool. Why did you do that? Couldn't you have gotten that
from the news reels or newspapers?

Mr. RoTON. The commission had other information that they could
cross-reference and determine if any of the individuals in the group
shots were identified with any subversive groups.

Mr. Pool. Were they ?

Mr. RoTON. I couldn't say, sir. You would have to — I know of a
few offhand.

Mr. Pool. Well, earlier you said in your statement that you infil-
trated these groups and that you met old Communists, and things like
that. I wondered what kind of an in\'estigation you turned in to them
down there in Alabama.

Mr. RoTON. Since that time, sir, I have met one Myles Horton at
the convention in Birmingham, the SCL convention, betw^een August
9 and August 13, 1965. And he had his students at Highlander Folk
School stand up and salute the Russian flag and said, "This is the flag
we w^ill live under. We will overcome the American Government and
establish a Soviet Government in its place."

Mr. Pool. During your investigations, have you ever run into
anybody that had a card and said, "I am a Communist" ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

3220 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Pool. Explain to the committee here what you have done in
that regard. What have been the results of your investigations of
these groups that you have infiltrated ?

Mr. EoTON. Sir, to determine whether a person is a Communist or
not, you have to follow him around and take his statements and see if

Mr. Pool. Did you do this ?

Mr. EoTON. Yes, sir. And are of the nature of Karl Marx and if
he is not satisfied with this government and wants to overthrow and
make statements

Mr. Pool. State whom you furnished this information to. Did you
turn it over to the commission down in Alabama ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did you have any hearings on it ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did you turn it in to the FBI ?

Mr. RoTON. If they want it, they are welcome to it.

Mr. Pool. Did you turn it in to this committee here ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did you turn it in to the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. A member of the staff has copies of all the tapes that

Mr. Pool. This committee here ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. The committee wants to be sure that you did.

Mr. Appell. You testified this morning that you covered the Wash-
ington march upon the specific instructions of the chairman of the com-
mission. I asked you just a little bit ago what you do for Mr. Shelton,
under Mr. Shelton's instructions, and you said you covered the march
in Washington. Which are the facts? Were you serving two
masters ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir, I serve no mr.ster. I serve the Constitution as
an American citizen, to the best of my ability.

Now, I was directed by Mr. Hawkins to go to Washington and attend
the Washington march to take photographs and pictures thereof and
return them to him, and which I did. This information, we give it to
a lot of people, anybody who

Mr. Appell. You testified that you did this at the request of Mr.
Shelton.

Mr. RoTON. Well, let me rephrase that. I did not see Mr. Shelton
prior to the time that I left for Washington, sir.

Mr. Appell. I asked you what assignment did you carry out for
Mr. Shelton. You testified that you covered the march in Washington.

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Shelton asked me in 1961 after I told him what I
could possibly do. He said, "Go ahead, and keep me informed."

Mr. Appell. So that what yoi^^ have done from 1961 to the present
day in behalf of the United Klans of America, you have done under
this broad authority of making your own decisions as to Avhether you
should cover it for them or not, make an investigation.

Mr. RoTON. What I have done in the capacity, making tape record-
ings and pictures and doing anything I can to bring it to the atten-

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3221

tion of the American people, the Communist threat to this country,
sir, I have done as an American.

Mr. Appell. Name one person that you have identified as a Com-
mimist, that you have established to be a Communist.

Mr. RoTON. You can take past investigations that I made in cross-
reference

Mr. Appell. Your investigations ?

Mr. RoTON. It is very difficult. I have done mine at my own ex-
pense.

Mr. Pool. The witness will be temporarily excused until 10 o'clock
tomorrow morning. We are going to have to give up this room at 3
o'clock and we are going a little over, so the committee Avill recess
until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, and you will still be on the stand.

Mr. RoTON. All right, sir.

(Whereupon, at 3 :10 p.m., Tuesday, February 8, 1966, the subcom-
mitee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, February 9, 1966.)

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN ORGANIZATIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES

Part 4

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1966

United States House of Eepresentatives,

Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington^ B.C.

PUBLIC hearings

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
as reconstituted for the February 9 hearings, met, pursuant to recess,
at 10:15 a.m., in the Caucus Room, Cannon House Office Building,
Washington, D.C., Hon. Joe R. Pool (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.

(Subcommittee members: Representatives Joe R. Pool, of Texas,
chairman; Charles L. Weltner, of Georgia; and John H. Buchanan,
Jr., of Alabama. )

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Pool and Bu-
chanan.

Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director: William
Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell,
chief investigator ; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator.

Mr. Pool. The committee will come to order.

The Chair wishes to announce : "Pursuant to the provisions of law
and the Rules of this Committee," that the chairman, Edwin Willis,
has hereby appointed —

a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities consisting of Honor-
able Joe R. Pool as Chairman, and Honomble Charles L. Weltner and Honorable
John Buchanan as associate members, to conduct hearings in Washington, D.C., on
Wednesday, February 9, 1966, as contemplated by the resolution adopted by the
Committee on the 30th day of March, 1965, authorizing hearings concerning the
activities of the various Ku Klux Klan organizations in the United States.
Please make this action a matter of Committee record.
If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me.
Given under my hand this 8th day of February, 1966.

/s/ Edwin E. WilUs
Edwin E. Willis,
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Actvoities.

So that is the subcommittee that will hear the witnesses this morning.
I believe we had Mr. Roton on the stand yesterday so, if he will come
forward, we will hear his testimony again.

3223

3224 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

TESTIMONY OP RALPH RAY ROTON— Resumed

Mr. Pool. You have been sworn and you are testifying under oath.

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Go ahead, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, you testified yesterday that one of the duties
and positions that you held within the United Klans of America was
that of director of public relations or director of publicity ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. What was your title within the organization ?

Mr. Roton. Title?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Mr. Roton. Sir, that was an appointed position under the Grand
Dragon, and I worked with him. when he called a press conference.

Mr. Appell. And you were the director of public relations? Is
that what your appointment was ?

Mr. RoTON. That was the title that was given to me; yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. By the Grand Dragon or Imperial Wizard ?

Mr. Roton. The Grand Dragon, sir.

Mr. Appell. And were you the director of public relations for the
realm or for the imperial office ?

Mr. Roton. For the Realm of Alabama.

Mr. Appell. Just for the realm ?

Mr. Roton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Now what were your duties and responsibilities in the
position that you held?

Mr. Roton. Sir, to call press conferences, to be in touch with the
news media, and to call them at Mr. Creel's, when he decided to call a
press conference, on when he had some information to release.

Mr. Appell. Then with respect to the press media, you were a pub-
licly known member of the United Klans of America ?

Mr. Roton. For a period of time ; yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And what period of time did that encompass ?

Mr. Roton. Sir, I don't remember telling the news media that I was
a member of the organization, but I may possibly have at one time or
another.

I would call the news media and say that "Mr. Creel is going to have
a press conference," and they would respond accordingly.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, the subpena served upon you contained an
attachment thereto, which was made a part of the subpena and directed
you to produce books, commanded you to bring with you and to pro-
duce before the committee, books, records, and other documents set
forth in the subpena.

Paragraph 1 called for :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and affiliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, in your possession, custody
or control, or maintained by you or available to you as present or former Public
Relations Director, Head of the Klan Bureau of Investigation (KBI). and
member. Imperial Board of the Invisible Empire, United Klans, Knights of the
Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3225

In the representative capacity set forth in paragraph 1, 1 ask you to
produce the documents called for.

Mr. RoTON. Sir, could we clarify one thing? It calls for a member
of the imperial board. I am not a member, nor have I ever been a
member, of the imperial board.

Number two, it calls for records under the Klan Bureau of Investi-
gation and head thereof. To my knowledge, I have never been ap-
pointed the head of any such organization. As I stated yesterday,
that I did serve in a capacity as investigator for the organization, but
never a head of any such group.

As far as the records, sir, to the best of my knowledge and ability, I
have no records belonging to the United Klans of America, the United
Ku Klux Klan, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

I have records, as I testified to yesterday, of investigations that I
did make and which have been turned over to the Commission To
Preserve The Peace, and records, copies thereof are available, but they
are my personal records to this committee and they have no bearing on
the United Klans of America.

Now, there may be in those records statements and things of that
nature that were made publicly through a newspaper and consist of a
newspaper clipping, but to tie that down, sir, to as records belonging
to the United Klans of America, to the best of my knowledge and
ability, I have none.

Mr. Appell. Well, the subpena is a little broader than that. It
relates to records which are in your possession, custody, or control or
maintained by you or available to you. Within those three cate-
gories, your testimony is that you have no records ?

Mr. RoTON. I have no records belonging to the United Klans of
America. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Pool. Do you have any records that you would like to make
available to the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, as I stated before, the records of the investigation
that I made, the pictures and photographs, the documents of the prior
investigations I made, of course, they are available to this committee
and any law enforcement agency that would be of benefit to.

Mr. Pool. Do you have them in your possession now ?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; they are back in Alabama.

Mr. Pool. Would you make them available to the committee ?

Mr. RoTON. At any time, sir. In fact, this committee does have
some of my records now.

Mr. Pool. How about the narrative records of investigations?

Mr. RoTON. I have notes of reports.

Mr, Pool. Do you volunteer those to the committee?

Mr. RoTON. I would be more than happy to, and most of them are
on tape recordings.

Mr. Pool. You liave tape recordings, also ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. You want to furnish those to the committee, also?

Mr. RoTON. I will be glad to furnish a copy. I don't have the money
to pay for it, but if you pay for duplication, you are wecome to it.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Rot on, after you left the employment of the Com-
mission To Preserve The Peace, what was your next employment?

3226 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. EoTON. I was self-employed in Montgomery, in a small con-
struction business, small home repair.

Mr. Appell. And how long did you engage in that business?

Mr. RoTON. Oh, approximately 9 months, I think.

Mr. Appell. And that took you up to the fall of 1964 ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. And how have you been employed since the fall of
1964?

Mr. RoTON. Since that time, sir, I was employed with an insurance
adjusting firm in Birmingham and I was employed with — sir, do we
have to go into this? We did go into this yesterday, and to the best
of my judgment, it is privileged information. And my testifying and
trying to cooperate with this committee, and it will bring people in
that have no connection with any organizations whatsoever. Dedi-
cated Americans, trying to do a job.

Mr. Appell. Well, are these

Mr. RoTON. I can't see where it would be relevant and germane to
any organization, any such legislation.

Mr. Appell. Well, the thing that makes it germane, Mr. Roton, is
the fact that you testified yesterday that you have operated within
organizations in an undercover capacity on behalf of the United
Klans.

Mr. RoTON. Not continuously, sir. As I also testified to yesterday,
that I try to do my part as an American citizen, and we can go into
politics and bipartisan politics and people I know, and I just can't
see where it would be relevant and germane to drag innocent people
through this committee.

Mr. Appell. Well, let me ask you whether or not any of the em-
ployers that you have been employed by since the fall of 1964, you have
engaged in investigative activity at their direction ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir; I have. When I was associated and working
for an insurance adjusting firm in Birmingham, that was part of my
work, investigating accidents and claims that would be pertinent to
the insurance company, but they had no relation to the United Klans
of America.

Mr. Appell. Well, I think, Mr. Roton, when you state that these
employers have no knowledge that you were a concealed member of
the United Klans of America, that your employment by them adversely
affects them.

And for the sake of the record, I think that you ought to be full and
frank with the committee, because this is needed by the record. This
is what we ask of witnesses, and I don't think it is a reflection upon

Mr. RoTON. Certainly not, but it would be, as if you read the Wash-
ington Post this morning, to my interpretation, it was somewhat mis-
quoted as to w^hat I testified before this committee yesterday and as to
my conversation with another individual. And people who are try-
ing to do right, sir, and no matter whether we disagree with them

Mr. Pool. Let me ask you this, then : What were your duties with
these companies since the fall of 1964? What were your duties?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, with Bridewell Brothers Insurance Adjusters in
Birmingham, Alabama, I performed the duties of an insurance ad-
juster.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3227

Mr. Pool. All right, what were the duties of an insurance adjuster,
what type cases?

Mr. RoTON. I called upon peoj)le who were involved in automobile
accidents and tried to settle their claim according to the rules and
stipulations.

Mr. Pool. Strictly commercial business. It had nothing to do with
the Ku Klux Klaii or the investigating commission.

Mr. RoTON. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, were any of the by-products of this inves-
tigative effort of yours shared with the United Klans of America?

Mr. RoTON. No^ sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you, on behalf of the United Klans of America,
make any investigation as to the circumstances relating to the death
of Mrs. Viola Liuzzo ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir;T did, under the direction of attorney Matt
Murphy.

Mr. Appell. And what did you do, sir ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't have that complete file with me, sir. It is

Mr. Pool. Well, to the best of your recollection, what did you do ?

Mr. RoTON. I made some photographs and I also took one state-
ment from a former landlord of a jDerson, and made some photographs
and turned those over to Mr. Murphy; made some verbal investiga-
tions, in asking around as to what happened and if there was any im-
plication of these people. I talked to State investigators, talked to the
FBI, was at the trial, and all information was turned over to the
attorney.

Mr. Pool. Did you keep copies of any of this ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; I have a file on the investigation.

Mr. Pool. Will you make the file available to the committee?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, I would be more than happy to.

Mr. Appell. Did you obtain copies of any documents obtained by
law enforcement agencies which had been received from other law
enforcement agencies or which had been taken from the automobile of
Mrs. Liuzzo ?

Mr. RoTON. Would you restate that question, sir ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Did you receive from any law enforcement agencies any evidence,
either received from other law enforcement agencies or obtained from
the automobile of Mrs. Viola Liuzzo ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, I made some photographs and movies of the auto-
mobile in question, and some information, when Mr. Murphy, prior
to his death, it is also in this complete file, part of the information
that — his personal notes and things of that nature, and since tw^o trials
are now pending on it, I don't kiiow, you might have to check with
the attorney that is now in charge of the case.

Mr. Appell. That is not an answer to my question, sir.

I asked you, did you receive from any law enforcement authority
any of the documents which were in the Liuzzo car at the time she
was murdered, or did you receive from any law enforcement authority
any documents of evidence which they had received in the case ?

Mr. Roton. I received, I think I still have — I am not sure whether
I do or not

3228 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Pool. Can you talk a little louder ?

Mr. RoTON. I am not sure whether I do or not, information relating
to that case. I could not say specifically, but I will say this: That
the complete file of Mr. Murphy was given, entrusted to me, after
the first trial.

Mr. Appell. Who entrusted it to you ?

Mr. RoTON. Mr. Murphy.

Mr. Pool. His question was this, as I understand it : Did you re-
ceive any information or official documents, or did you copy any of
them from law enforcement agencies ?

I suppose Mr. Appell meant as an investigator for the Alabama
Legislative Commission. Is that what you are getting at?

Mr. Appell. No, sir ; he was not employed by the Alabama Commis-
sion To Preserve The Peace at that time.

Mr. Pool. That was before he was employed by that ?

Mr. Appell. This is afterwards, sir.

There was a document made available to the press by Imperial
Wizard Shelton, which consisted of a report which originated with
the Detroit Police Department.

Do you possess knowledge of how that document came into Mr.
Shelton's possession ?

Mr. RoTON. Sir, there were many copies of that made in the State
of Alabama. I have seen just numerous copies.

Mr. Appell. That does not answer my question, Mr. Roton.

I asked you. Do you know how that came into Mr. Shelton's posses-
sion?

Mr. RoTON. I couldn't say that to a certainty. I think I liave a
copy of the same document.

Mr. Appell. I asked you if you possess knowledge of how that
came into Mr. Shelton's possession.

Mr. RoTON. Not that I remember, sir.

Mr. Appell. Well, before you said not with certain knowledge,
now not as you remember.

Mr. RoTON. Do you mean — you are asking me tlie question, did I
give that to Mr. Shelton ?

Mr. Appell. No, sir; I am asking you whether or not you possess
knowledge of how it came into Mr. Shelton's possession.

Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; I don't think I do. I may have — well, there
was plenty of copies of it in the State of Alabama and all over the
South and all over the country.

Mr. Appell. Yes, but at one stage, there was only one, and that
was the one sent to Sheriff Clark by a chief of police in a commimity
outside of Detroit. At one stage, there was only one. I will agree
with you that, thereafter, there were many.

I am asking you if you know how the one that Mr. Shelton made
available to the press came into his possession.

Mr. RoTON. No, sir; I couldn't — I don't.

Mr. Appell. Did you photograph any of, make photographic copies
of any of the documents that were in Mrs. Liuzzo's car?

Mr, RoTON. Yes, sir. I did.

Mr. Appell. Where ? Who made the documents available to you for
photographic reproduction ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3229

Mr, RoTON. I was working under the direct supervision of Mr.
Murphy, sir, at that time, and the documents in her car were subpenaed
duces tecum to that first trial, and I was asked by Mr. Murphy to re-
produce some of those.

Mr. Appell, These documents were made an official part of the
record of the first trial ?

Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir. I would have to check the
transcript.

Mr. Appell. But

Mr. RoTON. There was some evidence introduced from her car ; yes,
sir. And there was more that was tried, that the attorney tried to
introduce.

Mr. Appell. But the reproduction that you made of the documents
that were in her car, you did upon instruction of Mr. Murphy, and
the reason that they were turned over to you was because they had
been subpenaed through a subpena duces tecum issued by the court
on the request of Mr. Murphy ?

Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Did you receive compensation for this work that you
did?

Mr. RoTON. No, sir.

Mr. Appell. None whatsoever?

Mr. RoTON. I received some expense money from Mr. Murphy ;
yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Can you recall how much expense money you received.

Mr. RoTON. I received one check for $40.00, I believe. Mr. Appell. Did you also receive one for a hundred dollars? Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir; but that was not related to that case. Mr. Appell. What was that related to? Mr. RoTON. Some other work that 1 did for Mr. Murphy. Mr. Appell. Now were copies of any of the documents which you reproduced in the Liuzzo case, were prints of that made available by you to any member of the United Klans of America? Mr. RoTON. I can't say to be certain, sir. Mr. Murphy was a mem- ber of the United Klans of America, and he was the attorney in the case. Mr. Appell. Well, let's say, did you personally — not that someone else might have — did you personally turn over prints to anyone who was a member of the United Klans of America, excluding the attorney, the Imperial Klonsel, the late Matt Murphy ? Mr. RoTON. Not to my knowledge, sir. Mr, Pool. How about negatives? Mr. RoTON. Sir? Mr. Pool. How about negatives ? Did you turn any negatives over to anybody that was a member? Mr, RoTON, Not to my knowledge, sir, Mr, Pool, Mr. Rot on, I can't understand the repeated response that you make, not to your knowledge. If you were the man that took the photographs and you were the man that made the prints, if you did it, wouldn't you have knowledge? I mean Mr. RoTON. Well, sir, I could say that maybe possibly. There were many photographs made of that. 3230 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. I am only asking what you personally turned over. I am not saying if you made seven copies and gave them to Mr. Mur- phy, that they later got into the hands of somebody. I am just saying did you personally turn them over to anyone who was a member of the United Klans of America, other than Mr. Murphy? Mr. RoTON. I could not answer that question beyond a reasonable doubt and moral certainty. I reported directly to Mr. Murphy on this case, and no one else. Mr. Pool. You do not remember whether you did or not. Is that it ? Mr. EoTON. Well, not to my knowledge, I did not, because I re- ported directly to Mr. Murphy on the case. Mr. Pool. Did you sell any of these prints ? Mr. RoTON. No, sir. Mr. Pool. To anybody, I am talking about. Mr. RoTON. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, Mr. Shelton has made public statements to the effect that recordings and film and the results of investigations relating to several of the civil rights disturbances and the Liuzzo case and the Selma-Birmingham march are in the possession of the United Klans of America. Did these come from you ? Mr. RoTON. It is very possible, sir, because there were many copies made of — that those accounts, and I do not think I have the original copies that were made in Selma. This committee has copies. Several law enforcement agencies have copies. Anything that they would be pertinent to an investigation, they were given to them. Mr. Appell. Well, did you ever receive any compensation, directly or indirectly, from Mr. Shelton to reimburse you for the cost of prints of photographs, tapes, or recordings that he has in his possession ? Mr. RoTON, I gave Mr. Shelton a complete copy of those tapes, and he was to reimburse me. Well, let me make this point clear : The tapes were made for another person. I loaned this copy to Mr. Shelton and said if he would pay for the reproduction of it, he could keep them. Otherwise, I would have to take it and give it to the person who had already paid for the reproduction. Mr. Shelton kept them approximately 5 or 6 weeks, I think, and whether he made reproductions of them or not, I do not know, but I have those tapes back in my possession now. Mr. Appell. And what tapes are they ? Mr. RoTON. They were the Selma tapes, and there may have been more. I made many tapes. I couldn't say. Mr. Appell. And who did you make the tapes for, originally ? Mr. RoTON. You mean the tapes in Selma ? Mr. Appell. Yes, the ones that you turned over to Mr. Shelton to make copies of. Mr. RoTON. Well, I have testified to the action of why I did this, and I, as an American, and some of the things going on in some of these meetings need to be exposed. Mr. Appell. That does not answer my question, Mr. Roton. I asked for whom did you do it? You said you did it for someone else. Mr. RoTON. I was not directed by any one pei-son, sir, to go to Selma and make any tapes or pictures there. 1 did this on my own. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3231 Mr. Appell. Well, I am just trying to reconcile what you state in that you did not do it for Mr. Shelton, you did it for someone else, who paid for it, and that you then loaned the tapes to Mr. Shelton to make copies of. Mr. KoTON. Well, I was speaking of the copies of the tapes, sir. Mr. Appell. Yes. Mr. RoTON. There were many copies of these particular tapes made, and I loaned those to Mr. Shelton, but I now have those back in my possession and I received no compensation from him for these partic- ular tapes. Mr. Appell. Well, have you received compensation from him for copies of prints, photographic prints, photographs taken ? Mr. RoTON. Directly from Mr. Shelton ; no sir. Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton Mr. Pool. Now wait just a minute. How about from any individual in the United Klans^ Did you receive compensation from any official of the United Klans? Mr. RoTON. I do not remember. I have received some from Mr. Murphy, yes, sir ; on different occasions. Mr. Pool. Wliat was his title? Did he have a title in the United mans? Mr. RoTON. Mr. Murphy? Yes, sir; he was Imperial Klonsel. Mr. Pool. Imperial Klonsel ? Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir. Mr. Pool. Go ahead. Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, as an investigator for the United Klans of America, to what extent had the United Klans of America infiltrated law enforcement agencies in Alabama, to your knowledge ? Mr. RoTON. That, sir, I couldn't answer. I don't know. Mr. Appell. You know of no member of the United Klans of America who was a member of law enforcement? Mr. RoTON. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Mr, Roton, are you a member of the United Klans today ? Mr. RoTON. That's a good question. Mr. AppEiiL. What is the answer ? Mr, RoTON. That I don't know. Mr. Appell, Are you still an investigator for Mr. Shelton today ? Mr. RoTON. I would assume not, sir. And not to get into any hassle with anyone, any particular Mr. Pool. I can't quite hear you. Mr. RoTON. Not to cause a disturbance between any people, sir, my activities for the organization and which you have copies, I think Mr. Weltner had a book up there of what the Klans believes in, and as an individual American, I have done this work and tried to bring it to the attention of the public, and not to get in any conflict with any people. Mr. Pool, Do you intend to keep up your membership in the United Klans of America ? Mr, Appell. There is a question pending, Mr. Roton. Mr. Roton. lamthinking, Mr. Appell. Sir, the Klan as it is originally intended, carry on and do work in a 59-222 O— 67^pt. 4—22 3232 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Pool. Talk into that microphone there. We can't hear you. Mr. RoTON. To do work in the best interests of Americanism and to do its part to try to preserve the Constitution of the United States, the way it was originally intended, and to work for better government and for the prosperity of both races, in which it has been written as such, to carry on in this manner, yes. But if this organization should be branded and proven to be branded beyond a reasonable doubt in a moral certainty, anti-American, subversive, I could not be a member of it. Mr. Pool. Are you in doubt about that, as to what you think about it? Mr. RoTON. The — what this investigation proves, we are still taking testimony. We don't know it beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty at this time. But to answer your question, to remain in an organization that is branded subversive, anti-American, I could not do it, sir. I intend to continue my work as an individual, to try to protect and preserve this country, as it was originally intended. Did you all get that straight, over there ? Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, the reason I asked you the question as to whether or not you still were, is that yesterday, w^hile you were giving a television interview, you said that you were, and Mr. Melvin Sexton asked Mr. Manuel for us to ask you under oath today whether you still were, and that is why I asked you the question. You know Mr. Melvin Sexton to be an official of the United Klans of America, do you not ? Mr. RoTON. I can't say that beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, to the best of my knowledge, sir. Mr. Appell. Well, let me say to you that Mr, Melvin Sexton signed the corporate tax return of the United Klans of America covering the fiscal year ending June 30, 1965, as the secretary of the organization, so I would assume that would make him then an official. Would you also make the same assumption ? Mr. RoTON. Sir, if he signed it, it is beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, and that is his signature beyond a reasonable doubt, who am I to question it ? Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, other than the Viola Liuzzo case, were you ever requested by the Imperial Wizard to investigate acts of violence in Alabama in which there was great rumor and suspicion that the people involved might be Klansmen ? Mr. RoTON. I can't say beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, sir, but I have, as I testified yesterday, made inquiries into different acts of violence and tried to find out the truth behind it. Mr. Appell. On instructions from Mr. Sheldon, or on your own ? Mr. RoTON. I do not remember. Mr. Appell. On September 29, 1963, Robert E. Chambliss, Charles A. Cagle, and John Wesley Hall were arrested for possessing dynamite. At the trial they were later dismissed on tlie grounds that the dyna- mite in their possession was not within the geographical limits of the city of Birmingham and, therefore, could not be prosecuted under Birmingham jurisidction. Did you make an investigation to determine whether or not these three Klansmen had in fact obtained this dynamite and the use for which the dynamite was going to be used ? ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3233 Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; I didn't. The only time I had anything to do with that particular issue is I attended the trial while it was going on and made some photographs. Mr. Appell. "Well, did you learn that one of the defendants advised that he was ordered to get this dynamite by Robert Thomas ? Mr. RoTON. No, sir ; I don't — wait, restate that question. Mr. Appell, I said did you learn that one of the defendants stated that he was ordered to get the dynamite by Robert Thomas ? Mr. RoTON. I vaguel}^ remember such a statement, sir. Mr. Appell, And allegedly that this dynamite was to be used to clear some ground for a new Klavern headquarters ? Mr. RoTON. I think that was in the Bhmiimglimn News or my local newspaper, one of the two of them. Mr. Appell. Now as a member of both at that time, both the Com- mission To Preserve The Peace and as an Imperial Investigator or an investigator appointed by the Imperial Wizard, shouldn't you have made an investigation to determine whether these were the facts of the procurement of dynamite ? Mr. RoTON". Sir, as an investigator for the Commission To Preserve The Peace, I specified that what civil disturbances in Birmingham was which I was assigned to. And if I had any knowledge of the bombings in Birmingham, as I stated to you before, I would be more than happy to give them to you. Mr, Appell, I realize that, sir, but you testified yesterday that you knew as a Klansman Robert Thomas. Mr, RoTON, Yes, sir, Mr. Appell. Now did you know Bob Chambliss to be a Klansman ? Mr, RoTON, Not beyond a reasonable doubt and moral certainty, Mr. Pool, How would you determine whether he was a Klansman or not? Mr, RoTON, Sir? Mr. Pool. How would you determine whether he was a Klansman or not ? Didn't your curiosity get the best of you sometimes and you would wonder whether a fellow was a Klansman or not? Mr. RoTON. Well, of course, the new\s media brands people things that sometimes they are not, and with all due respect to the news media, it is good sometimes and sometimes it is bad, Mr, Pool. We are not trying the newspaper, w^e are just trying to find out the facts here before this committee. Mr. RoTON. You have to ask a person, and there is certain Mr. Pool. Did you ever tiy to find out whether a fellow was a Klansman or not? Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir. Mr. Appell, Did you ever attend a closed Klavern meeting at which Robert E, Chambliss was present? Mr, RoTON, Not to my knowledge, sir, I don't know, Mr, Appell, Well, you must know. Not to your knowledge? You don't know. You did or you did not ? Chambliss is not a person who is so usual that you could attend a meeting with him and not know it. Mr. RoTON, As I stated before, sir, I very seldom attended meetings. Mr. Appell, Did you attend any meetings of Eastview Klavern 13 ? Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir. 3234 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Where did they hold their meetings? Mr. RoTON. On First Avenue in Birmingham — maybe it was First Avenue, if I am not mistaken. Mr. Appell. At any meetings of Eastview Klavern, was Robert E. Chambliss present? Mr. RoTON. I couldn't say beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, sir. I do not know. Mr. Appell. Was Robert Thomas present? Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir; I have seen Mr. Thomas present there. Mr. Appell. Was Ronald Tidwell present ? Mr. RoTON. I could not say beyond a resonable doubt and a moral certainty, sir. Mr. Appell. Was Gary Rowe present? Mr. RoTON. I remember Mr. Rowe, not at Eastview, I don't think. I think I have seen him at different places. Mr. Appell. At closed Klavern meeting? Mr. RoTON. Let's see, the last time I remember seeing Mr. Rowe was at the convention at the Tutwiler Hotel, I believe, in 1964. Mr. Pool. Has anyone threatened you about your testimony here before this committee? Mr. RoTON. No, sir. Mr. Pool. Have you talked to any Klansmen since yesterday? Mr. RoTON. Talked to Mr. Creel. And I saw Mr. Shelton yester- day, but there was no conversation. Mr. Pool. Did you talk to Shelton ? Mr. RoTON. No, sir; there was no conversation. I have not been threatened ; no, sir. I don't think I will be, either. Mr. Appell. Mr. Roton, did you accompany a group of Alabama Klansmen to a meeting and public rally in Jacksonville, Florida, in November 1964 ? Mr. RoTON. I attended that rally, yes, sir, with Mr. Creel and Mr. Murphy, Mr. Appell. Was Mr. Eugene Thomas there ? Mr. RoTON. I don't remember, sir, to be honest and certain. Mr. Appell. Was Collie Leroy Wilkins there ? Mr. RoTON. I couldn't say to be sure, sir. Mr. Appell. Was W. O. Eaton there? Mr. RoTON. It is all possible. I don't know it beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, sir. Mr. Appell. What was the purpose of the Alabama Klansmen ac- companying the Grand Dragon and Imperial Wizard and the Imperial Klonsel to Jacksonville? Mr. RoTON. Myself? I went down with Mr. Creel. Mr. Murphy was already there, and he met us when we were there. Mr. Appell. Was there, to your know^ledge, anticipation of any trouble from the members of the United Florida Klan because you were staging a public rally in Jacksonville, Florida ? Mr. RoTON. I never heard of any such, sir. Mr. Appell. Were you involved in any conversation which centered around William Rosecrans, the United Florida Klan member who had admitted to dynamiting the residence of lona Godfrey and had given tt; ,timony against other members of the ITnited Florida Klan? ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3235 Mr. RoTON. Sir, there was a lot of people present there. I don't remember, and that has been 2 years ago. Mr. Appell. Was J. B. Stoner there? Mr. EoTON. I believe he was. Mr. AppEiLL. He at that time, he and Mr. Murphy were cocounsel for the defendants in that case ; were they not ? Mr. RoTON. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Murphy did par- ticipate in part of that. I wasn't there, sir, and I don't know. Mr. Appell. Did you possess any knowledge of J. B. Stoner ever being a member of a Klan organization ? Mr. RoTON. No, sir; I don't. Mr. Appell. Were you familiar with the existence of the Christian Knights of the Ku Kl'ux Klan ? Mr. RoTON. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Never heard of them ? Mr. RoTON. Well, there is so many different Klan organizations that has been brought out during the past, it may have come to my attention, but, sir, I don't remember now. Mr. Appell. I mean, prior to what this investigation brought to your attention, did you possess knowledge of the Christian Knights of the KuKlux Klan? Mr. RoTON. No, sir. Mr. Appell. Before I break off, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Roton, what compensation have you received from the United Klans of America for expenses or salary in carrying out investigative assignments given to you by the Imperial Wizard, Mr. Robert Shelton ? Mr. RoTON. Sir, to clarify that statement, direct assignments from Mr. Shelton were not — were few and far between. I can't place them and I can't pin them down at this time, but I did this, as I have been an admitted member of the United Klans of America, and on my own, and the results of a portion of my investigations were made public and available to the United Klans of America, for release, and things of this nature. Mr. Appell. Prior to the time that you received an assignment from Mr. Shelton to act as an investigator for him, had you made any investigation of communism or any other "ism's" ? Mr. RoTON. I have read several of this staff's books and this com- mittee's books. Mr. Appell. I asked you, prior to receiving assignment from Mr. Shelton. Mr. RoTON. Oh; yes, sir. Mr. Appell. Had you ever made investigations ? Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir ; on my own, just periodic inquiries about certain things that were in my knowledge, could be detrimental to this coun- try if they progressed. Yes, sir; I made inquiries like that. (At this point Representative Weltner entered the hearing room.) Mr. Appell. Can you tell us one that you made prior to being given an assignment by Mr. Shelton ? Mr. RoTON. I can't remember offhand, sir. That was in late 1961, but I have been very interested in this, the encroachment of the cen- tralized government in communism, for approximately 8 years. 3236 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the staff has no further questions to ask of Mr. Roton. Mr. Pool. Just a moment. Mr. RoTON. Am I released? Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Roton, you have been very successful as an agent for the Klan in deceiving a number of people, various organiza- tions which you infiltrated, and various employers, and keeping from them your identity as a Klansman and as an investigator for the Klan. I appreciate your coming here and testifying before this commit- tee — I think this is highly commendable, I wish we had had more people who were willing to do so. While I won't challenge either your testimony or your reasons as stated by you for your activities, that is, you spoke of working, out of patriotism, to presei*ve the Constitution, for better government, against communism, and so forth, but may I respectfully say that if in good conscience, you had been working all this time for the Ku Klux Klan, believing you were working for patriotism, for better govern- ment, to preserve the Constitution, for the prosperity of both races, and against communism, in my considered judgment, you have de- ceived yourself more than all the others put together. Do you believe, sir, that the Ku Klux Klan has been guilty of no acts of terrorism or violence during this period in which you were working for it? Mr. RoTON. Sir, I can't say beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty. No more than Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman Mr. RoTON. But could I restate what I stated awhile ago, Mr. Buchanan? That the basic belief of the Klan is certainly not bad. It is in God and country. Be patriotic — worship God and be patriotic toward your country. Now there's — you can take any organization in the world, and take its bad members and crucify it. Just as I say, and I hope this com- mittee, and I hope my testimony has helped this committee, because I would do nothing to destroy the Committee on Un-American Activi- ties. I will help it in any way I can. All I want it to do is more, continued investigations, the Black Muslims, Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the Southern Conference for Human Welfare,^ and other cover names of the Communist Party. And if I can ever be of any assistance in my records or anything that I can investigate, I would certainly be willing to do so at my own expense. Mr. Buchanan. Well, I will say again I don't challenge your moti- vation and I appreciate your willingness to testify here ; I wish others had done so. I will only say that if we could all believe the preachments of the Klan as in "The Principle of the United Klans of xVmerica, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,'' which has already been entered in this record (Allen Bayne Exhibit No. 1 ; report pp. — ) and which says, "We be- lieve in God and the tenets of the Christian religion," and so forth, if we can accept the picture of the Klan as indicated in this "Seven Sym- 1 This organization went out of existence in 1949 and was succeeded by the Southern Conference Educational Fund. ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3237 bols of The Klan" that has ah'eady been introduced into the record (Allen Bayne Exhibit No. 3), in which the robe is described as a robe of righteousness and compared to one to be worn by the Hosts of Heaven, and so forth, if this were an honest, accurate picture of the Klan, we might all do well to join it. But may I say, sir — I imagine you are a church member, as I am Mr. RoTON. Yes, sir. Mr. Buchanan. If the church of which I am a part became so widely associated with acts of terrorism and violence that the average citizen would consider it common knowledge that that church was carrying out acts of violence and terrorism, if as much evidence and testimony had been micovered about the church of which I am a part as has been through these hearings about the Klan — indeed, in which we have had evidence and testimony uncovered about all sorts of ac- tivities, bombings, beatings, burnings, and worse — I rather believe that sooner or later I would begin to doubt that this was an organiza- tion that was, in fact, serving the purposes of Christianity and mo- rality and, in time, would come to a decision that I must disassociate myself from that organization, if I were myself going to stand for the principles of Christianity, morality, Americanism, or anything else good. So, therefore, sir, I would strongly advise you to take a good hard look at this record and I believe that if you take an honest look at the record uncovered here, together with that which is common — at least believed by many citizens to be common knowledge concern- ing activities of Klan members, the convictions, the indictments on which there have not been convictions, the constant association with violence and terrorism, that you will be forced, in time, to the con- clusion that this is not a proper way to express your desire to serve your country or to work for God and country. I strongly recommend you take a good, hard look. Mr. RoTON. I will do just that, Mr. Buchanan, and I hope this committee takes a good, strong look in other things. Mr. Pool. Mr. Weltner? Mr. Weltner. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Roton, I appreciate your willingness to testify, but I would like to ask, along the same lines as Mr. Buchanan, with regard to the documents put out by the United Klans of America, what is the reason for the secrecy of membership of the Ku Klux Klan? Mr. RoTON. Sir, in many organizations there is secrecy — the Masonic Order and the Knights of Columbus and the Shrine — and to bring such a fine organization as a Masonic Order to Washington to the House Un-American Activities Committee would be one of the worst things that has ever happened in this country. It is freedom of association and freedom of speech and tearing down the basic fundamentals of the Constitution of this United States. Now the secrecy, the complete oath, as I understand it, and to the best of my ability, and to the best of my recollection, has been in- troduced before this committee, as it was introduced, given to me yesterday to read, and in its entirety, it is not un-American. But as I have said before, certain individuals there have, if it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, and without the swaying of the public opinion 3238 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Weltner. Well, Mr. Roton, I appreciate that, within the Masonic Orders and within the Knights of Columbus, there is some secrecy as to ritual and as to obligations taken by members, and that is certainly true. But I read every day in the paper where someone has been elected as Imperial Potentate of a Shrine or as a Grand Pilot of the Knights of Columbus or as the Worshipful Master of the Masonic Lodge, and under that is a complete list of all the officers, and these men take pride in their membership. They don't hide their membership. They don't deny that they are members of a secret fraternal brother- hood. Now the question is not as to the secrecy of ritual, but the secrecy of membership. Wliy is it necessary for Klansmen to keep their membership in the Klan a secret from the general public and indeed, in some circumstances, a secret from each other? Why is that necessary? Why does that foster the aims of country and patriotism in the Constitution? Mr. Roton. Sir, I can't answer your question, because I do not know. I was not one who was a framer of that oath there. Mr. Weltner. Well, you took an oath not to disclose the identity of your fellow Klansmen; did you not? Mr. RoTON. That has been 7 years ago, sir. Mr. Weltner. Well, why did you take it then? Wliy were you willing to? Mr. Roton. If that was in there, I possibly did. I do not remember it. But to testify, and as this organization is under fire now, if I knew, I have told this committee what I know, and to try to tell it to the best of my knowledge and ability, but to ask me to say beyond a reasonable doubt and a moral certainty, when I have not asked whether a man is associated with this organization, I could not say. I would be perjuring myself before this committee. Mr. Weltner. Well, I am not directing myself to any specific iden- tification of any members. I am more interested in what are the ideals of the Klansmen and what are the principles of the Klan. The thing that sets the Klan off from all of these other organizations which maintain certain portions of their functions in secret, is the secrecy of the membership itself. I know of no other organization in this country where a member is instructed to deceive others as to whether or not he is a member of such an organization, with the possible exception of the John Birch Society, which I understand had some, at one time, secrecy-of- membership policy. But now^ I would like to know^ w^hat it is about the Klan that re- quires its members to maintain their identities as secrets and all of the activities and functions of the Klan as secrets. And if you can answ^er that, fine. If you can't answer it, we do not expect you to testify to anything of which you have no knowledge. Mr. Roton. I can't honestly say, sir. Mr. Weltner. Well, now, let me ask you one other question : With- in this document, "The Seven Symbols of The Klan," there is con- tained this statement: "The secret of our power lies in the secrecy of our membership." ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3239 Now, what is your understanding of that statement ? First, do you agree that the secret of the power of the Klan lies in the secrecy of its membership ? Mr. KoTON. I don't know, sir. I would have to study it. It could mean anything. It could mean a political power. Mr. Weltner. Do you agree that that is the secret of the power of the Klan ? The secrecy of its membership ? Mr. RoTON. I couldn't say whether it is or not. The Klan does some good work. Mr. Weltner. Well, I am not asking that. I am asking one ques- tion only, about secrecy, and that is a matter that we have had no one to come here and tell us about. No one has been willing to answer these questions, and I am hoping you can help this committee. You stated it is your desire to help this committee to make a sound and proper evaluation of the subject matter of this investigation. And it seems to me like the central issue is the reason for maintaining secrecy of identity and secrecy of activities and secrecy of functions. So I am asking you whether or not you agree, as a Klansman and as one who has held high office in the Klan, that the secret of the power of the Klan is the secrecy of its membership. Mr. RoTON. Sir, I could not say. Mr. Weltner. All right. Mr. Pool. I will ask you one further question, then. Do you think that the membership of the Klan should be made public ? Mr. RoTON. In the capacity that I served, sir, I identified myself as a member. Mr. Pool. I know you did, and that is why I am asking you that question. Mr. RoTON. But there has been releases in several different neAvs- paper articles and magazine articles come out, and they are trying to pit one individual against another, by saying that, as soon as a mem- bership or a name is obtained, a certain agency of the Federal Gov- ernment would call on them, and I quote from last month's Readev^s Digest^ where the outer den of a Klavern was filled with snakes, poisonous snakes, to be put in cars of the Federal Bureau of Inves- tigation. And that was the greatest, undoubtedly the masterpiece of a submarine report of an organization. I know of no such activities. And to subject the American people to such knowledge as that, or such hypothetical cloings and questions, is not true newspaper reporting and article- writing, and it is very difficult to understand why the organization is under fire now. And, as I stated before this committee, should it be put on subversive ac- tivities list, I would immediately resign. But the basic principles of God and country, you can't deny that, gentlemen. Mr. Pool. The point is that the membership and the officials are kept secret, and as Mr. Weltner pointed out to you, the "Symbols" states that the secrecy is their greatest weapon. Mr. RoTON. That could mean, sir, a political weapon or something of that nature. I have no idea. Mr. Pool. Why did you come forth and say that you were a member of the Ku Klux Klan ? You weren't afraid to say that. Mr. RoTON. No, sir. 3240 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Pool. Why should the other members of the Ku Klux Klan be afraid to say that ? Mr. KoTON. I do not know, sir. Mr. Pool. Do you disagree with the the other members, because you have come forth and said you were a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Mr. Roton. Well, it is a man's own prerogative on what he wants to do. Mr. Pool. But you can't see any reason not to say that, can you? Mr. EoTON. No, sir. Mr. Pool. You will be temporarily excused. Mr. Buchanan. I just want to say once again, Mr. Chairman, that because this has been so rare, for a member of this organization, ad- mitting himself to be a member, to testify before this committe, I again want to express my appreciation of his having done so. We obviously rather violently disagree on the nature of this or- ganization, but may I say that I appreciate Mr. Roton's presence and his testimony. I know it was not without courage. He may be in trouble with the Klan, as well as not being too popular in this area, perhaps, but I appreciate your coming, sir. Mr. RoTON. Thank you, sir. Mr. Pool. Mr. Roton, you wall temporarily step aside and will come back before the committee after the next witness. In all probablity, there will be some other questions to be asked you. You wnll still be under oath when you come back and you will tem- porarily step aside and do not leave until you are excused, one way or the other. Mr. RoTON. All right, sir. Mr. Pool. Call the next witness. Mr. Manuel. Mr. Chairman, at this time, the staff would like to call Mr. Robert Milton Creel. Mr. Pool. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? Mr. Creel. I do. TESTIMONY OF ROBERT MILTON CREEL Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, would you state your full name for the record, please? Mr. QiEEL. Robert Milton Creel. Mr. Manuel. And are you accompanied by counsel today? Mr. Creel. No, sir. Mr. Manuel. Do you desire counsel ? Mr. Creel. No, sir. Mr. Manuel. Are you aware of your rights granted to you under the Constitution of the United States to invoke the fifth amendment on any question which you believe might incriminate you ? Mr. Creel. I don't fully understand all the rights, but I wish to testify before this committee, and if I violate any of my rights, I will be doing it on my own. Mr. Pool. If any question is asked you that you think might tend to incriminate you in any way, then you have the perfect right to take ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3241 the guarantees of the fifth amendment and you can so notify the committee. Also, if you later on find that you do desire counsel, we will recess long enough for you to obtain counsel. Mr. Creel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Pool. And you do not care for counsel at this time ? Mr. Creel. No, sir. Mr. Pool. All right. Now have you read the opening statement of the chairman on Octo- ber the 19th, 1965? Mr. Creel. October 19th; yes, sir. Mr. Pool. You have read the statement. A copy of it was fur- nished to you? Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. Mr. Pool. Are you familiar with the contents and understand them 1 Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. Mr. Pool. All right. Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, when and where were you born? Mr. Creel. The 5th of October, 1930, at Lisman, Alabama. Mr. Manuel. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your educational background? Mr. Creel. Well, I attended grammar school at Pratt City, gradu- ated from there, attended briefly at Ensley, then Aye moved to Hope- well, Virginia, -svhere I finished 2 years of high school there, which would be the 10th, and that is the extent of that, besides self-study. Mr. Manuel. What is your current address, Mr. Creel ? Mr. Creel. 1100 South Shiloh, Linden, Alabama. Mr. Manuel. And what is your current occupation ? Mr. Creel. Unemployed at this time. Mr. Manuel. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your occupational background since 1960 ? Mr. Creel. Since 1960, I believe I was working for U.S. Pipe and Foundry Company at the Bessemer plant as a machinist. Mr. Manuel. And how long did you continue employment with that company ? Mr. Creel. Up until, I think, of March of last year, Mr. Manuel. And at March of 1965 ; is that correct ? Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. Mr. Manuel. And where were you employed subsequent to your em- ployment with the U.S. Pipe ? Mr. Creel. I resigned from U.S. Pipe and Foundaiy Company and went full time as Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America. Mr. Manuel. Were you paid a salaiy by the United Klans of America ? Mr. Creel. Well, we always talked about it, but we never got around to it. Mr. Manuel. Well, did you receive any Mr. Creel. I received expenses and household expenses, things of that nature. Mr. Manuel. Was that a consistent figure, each month or each week ? Mr. Creel. Well, it varied. It was according to how much traveling I done, but my household expenses was consistent. 3242 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Manuel. And how much was that, sir ? Mr. Creel. Oh, to put it right to the dollar, I couldn't say. Mr. Manuel. Approximately? How much did you receive each month ? Mr. Creel. Anywhere from$400 to $500, or$450 or something along
that nature.

Mr. Manuel. And how were you paid ?

Mr. Creel. By check.

Mr. Manuel. Who issued the check ?

Mr. Creel. I believe Mr. Sexton issued the cliecks.

Mr. Manuel. Now, would you further identify Mr. Sexton ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I believe that was identified by the checks, as
being on the account as the — let me think of the proper title —
treasurer.

Mr. Manuel. Now of what organization was he the treasurer ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I hope it is under United Klans of America.
That's what the banTc account was established as.

Mr. Manuel. Is that the Kealm of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Where was that bank account maintained, Mr. Creel ?

Mr. Creel. Birmingham Trust National Bank in Bessemer.

Mr. Manuel. And who were allowed to sign checks for that ?

Mr. Creel. Myself and Mr. Sexton.

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Creel, when did you first become a member
of a Klan organization, and will you please identify the organization
by name?

Mr, Creel. I believe the — it was in 1955. The exact month, I don't
remember, but it seems like it was in March. It might have been
earlier. 1955, at that time, in Alabama, every one in Alabama oper-
ated under the what we called the old U.S. Klans, which was under —
I think, the Imperial Wizard at that time was Mr. E. L. Edwards,
who has passed. He is deceased.

Mr. Manuel. And would you please describe for the committee
the circumstances surrounding your being affiliated with this orga-
nization ? How did you become a member ?

Mr. Creel. Well, at that time, practically everyone was a member.
It was really something else just to be able to get in the Klan. I
don't remember if I joined at a rally, or I did attend a rally. I think
they had one in Midfield at that time. I don't remember.

Mr. Manuel. And did you pay an initiation fee at that time?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; but it was quite small. I don't remember what
the initiation fee was.

Mr. Manuel. Who administered the oath to you in order for you
to become a Klansman ?

Mr. Creel. That's a good question because, as you know, we have
an antimask law in the State of Alabama, but you can wear a mask
down — inside or on private property, and at that time, during nat-
uralization ceremonies, everyone was robed.

I couldn't honestly say who gave me my naturalization.

Mr. Manuel. And what Klavern were you a member of in the U.S.
Klans?

Mr. Creel. I think it was Bessemer 20.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3243

Mr, Manuel. How long did you remain a member of the U.S.
Klans?

Mr. Creel. Until it went to Alabama Klans.

Mr. Manuel. And what year was that ?

Mr. Creel. I don't remember what year it was. I think it remained
Alabama Klans for about a year, and then that's when we all got
together, over at Indian Springs, and formed what is now the United
Klans.

Mr. Manuel. All right, we will get to that in just a minute.

Could you please first tell the committee why the organization
changed from the U.S. Klans to the Alabama Klans ?

Mr. Creel. Well, that's quite simple. At that time, the power
structure of the Klan was more or less — I hate to say this — kind of
like a dictatorship, and the people of Alabama didn't like to see any-
one set themselves up as "I am the Almighty." It wasn't democratic.

Mr. Manuel. Who was the Grand Dragon of the U.S. Klans at
the time immediately preceding the time that it switched into the
Alabama Knights ?

Mr. Creel. I believe prior to that time, under U.S. Klans, I think
Mr. Alvin Horn was Grand Dragon at that time.

Mr. Manuel. And whom did he replace in that job ?

Mr. Creel. Whom did who replace?

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Horn.

Mr. Creel. He was Grand Dragon when I came in. I don't know
who he replaced.

Mr. Manuel. Did you ever know Kobert Shelton to be the Grand
Dragon of the U.S. Klans in the State of Alabama?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. How long did he hold that position ?

Mr. Creel. I couldn't honestly say. I don't really know. I niean,
I didn't keep track of the time. Maybe a year. I don't have any idea.

Mr. Manuel. Do you know whether or not he was replaced as
Grand Dragon by Imperial Wizard Eldon Edwards of the U.S. Klan?

Mr. Creel. I think it was rumored at one time he was going to be
replaced. I don't know. I don't have knowledge of that. I mean, I
don't testify on rumors, or if I had direct knowledge, then I could
honestly say, but I have no direct knowledge.

Mr. Manuel. All right. At the time that Mr. Shelton was the
Grand Dragon of the U.S. Klans, did you hold any office?

Mr. Creel. No, sir. Not to my Imowledge.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Manuel, when was Shelton the Grand Dragon of
the U.S. Klan?

Mr. Manuel. He was Grand Dragon two different periods, Mr.
Chairman. Both, I believe, in 1959 and the early part of 1960.
Mr. Pool. When did the witness say that he became a member?
Mr. Manuel. The witness says he became a member in 1955.
Mr. Creel, did you hold a position in the Alabama Knights, an
official position in the Alabama Knights of the Ku Klux Klan?

Mr. Creel. Not to my knowledge. I was trying to think when I
was first elected to an official position. I don't believe I did.

Mr. Manuel. When was the first time you held an official position
in a Klan organization ?

3244 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Creel. I think the first time I ever held an elective position,
I believe it was as EC of the Bessemer Unit.

Mr. Manuel. And what was the approximate date of that?

Mr. Creel. Well, I held about — I am trying to remember if it was
tw^o or three terms of office. I believe it was two terms of office and
maybe part of another one. I don't remember.

Mr. Manuel. Well, can you give an approximate date as to when
you were first elected ?

Mr. Creel. Oh, let's see. I would say maybe in '62. I am guessing
now. I could be wrong,

Mr. Manuel. Now you stated just a little while ago that in 1961
there was a meeting at Indian Springs, where the United Klans of
America was formed.

Would you please tell the committee the circumstances surrounding
that meeting and what was accomplished at that meeting?

Mr. Creel. Well, at that time, I think probably this committee al-
ready knows that were numerous Klan groups that was operating
throughout the South. And it seems like that every time anyone
would come along, they wanted to form a Klan organization of their
own, and we seen that we were getting a lot of bad publicity, acts that
were of violence that was contributed, maybe, to the Klan, and there
was no coordination, and to have a further control, to be able to
positively say that maybe this act of violence was not committed by
this group, so most of the leadership, I don't remember at that time,
of the various Klan groups, that got together at Indian Springs,
Virginia, indicated their offices came up with a new constitution and
formed what is now United Klans, to do away with the splinter
groups — that's what we used to refer to them — and to build a good,
solid South.

I mean, of where that would, if there was any act of violence, and
it seemed like every time anything was ever done, they say the Klan
done it, and that's why I am testifying before this committe, is because
I know there is good people in the State of Alabama, and they have
been accused of acts that I know they didn't commit, and that was one
reason, that was some of the things that was taken into consideration.

Mr. Manuel. Now other than the position of exalted cyclops of
Bessemer Unit No. 20, have you held any other office in the United
Klans of America ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. I held the office as great titan, which is over
a province, and a province consists now of a congressional district.

Mr. Manuel. And during what period of time did you hold that
office, Mr. Creel, to the best of your memory?

Mr. Creel. I would say from maybe 1961, 1962. It might have been
longer, it might have been less.

Mr. Manuel. Have you held any other office ?

Mr. Creel. Well, that office is Grand Dragon. I think you know

Mr. Manuel. Well, how did you obtain that office?

Mr. Creel. By an election.

Mr. Manuel. And where was the election held ?

Mr. Creel. If I am not mistaken, I believe it was held at the Tut-
wiler Hotel.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3245

Mr. Manuel. And what was the date of that election, Mr. Creel ?

Mr. Creel. I am afraid you will have to give me that. I don't
remember.

Mr. Manuel. Can you give me an approximate date ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I can't. It seems like it was in — I would just
rather not answer, because I would give you maybe the wrong date,
but I am not too much on dates and things of that nature. If you will
refresh my memory, then maybe I can answer as to that was the date or
not.

Mr. Manuel. All right, we will get to that a bit later. First, tell
the committee how long you served as Grand Dragon for the United
Klans of America, Realm of Alabama.

Mr. Creel. I just resigned.

Mr. Manuel. You say you just resigned?

Mr. Creel. Well, when I say I resigned, I didn't run for reelection.
I will put it that way.

Mr. Manuel. When was the last election held in Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. I believe it was held the first Sunday in January. I
believe.

Mr. Manuel. And who is the current Grand Dragon of Alabama?

Mr. Creel. I think he has identified hisself as Mr. Brassell, from
Montgomery.

Mr. Manuel. What is his first name, Mr. Creel ?

Mr. Creel. I don't know his first name. I suppose it is William.
They call him Bill. I think that's the

Mr. Manuel. Were you a Grand Dragon of the State of Alabama
at the time you were served a subpena by this committee ?

Mr. Creel. On the first one; yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. You say you did not run for reelection. Did you also
resign from the Klan ?

Mr. Creel. Well, the committee hearings had nothing to do, Mr.
Chairman, by me resigning from the Klan.

Mr. Pool. Well, I understand that, but

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. I had always made it a policy — I don't mind
telling this committee — it was broadcasted from California to Maine,
of the incident in Pascagoula, Mississippi, and I had always made it
a policy of the organization that if anyone got into any trouble, as
far as I was concerned, they was on their own, and I am no better
than any of the rest of them. And so, therefore, I resigned until I
can either prove my innocence or they find me guilty.

Mr. Pool. You did resign from the Klan.

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. You are not a member of the Klan.

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Manuel. And Mr. Creel, are you appearing here this morning
in response to the subpena which I just referred to?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. And was that subpena served upon you on Novem-
ber 12,1 1955?

Mr. Creel. I would say somewhere around that time.

1 Actual date of service Novembei" 11, 1965.

3246 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Manuel,. At your residence, 1100 Shiloh, Linden, Alabama?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir ; by a U.S. marshal.

Mr. Manuel. At that time, you were the Grand Dragon of the
State of Alabama. Is that correct?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, an attachment made part of this subpena
orders and directs you to produce, and I shall read paragraph 1 of
that subpena :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to
the organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Em-
pire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as
the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and aflSliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, Whiteman's Defense Fund.
Heritage Enterprises, Inc., in your possession, custody or control, or maintained
by you or available to you as Grand Dragon, Realm of Alabama of the Invisible
Empire, United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known
as the United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

In the representative capacity listed in the first paragraph of that
subpena, I now ask you, sir, to produce the documents called for.

Mr. Creel. Well, if you will just tell me what you want, and then I
will tell you what I have, and what I have is mostly me. I can bring
you my robe up here. I think that's all I have, and it wasn't my job,
I would like to explain to the investigator, Mr. Chairman, to maintain
records, which there is no doubt in my mind there is records kept.

I would be glad to cooperate with this committee. If I had any
records, I would be glad to produce the records. I am just about like
Mr. Roton. About all I have is a newspaper clippings and things of
that nature, and if you would like to have them, I will be more than
glad to present them to the committee.

Mr. Manuel. In other words, your testimony, as I understand it,
is that a Grand Dragon of a State does not keep records.

Mr. Creel. I believe if you will — which I have seen Mr. Appell
referring to the constitution, he was reading out the duties of the vari-
ous officers, that's their jobs, to keep the records.

Mr. Manuel. Does anyone in the realm, any realm officer, keep
records ?

Mr. Creel. I believe that they would abide by the constitution.

Mr. Manuel. And in that regard, would you tell the committee what
the constitution says ?

Mr. Creel. Well, if you will give me a copy of it. I can't tell you
what it says, but I think it reads out the duties of the officers. I haven't
got that good of a memory.

Incidentally, it doesn't even relate as to the Grand Dragon's duties
in here, I don't think I have ever read it, but usually, he acts as the—
along with the EC :

The Kligrapp is the secretary and recording officer of the Klan. He shall
keep an accurate and complete record of all the proceedings of his Klan assembled,
and a correct and systemmatic record of its membership, and of the date each
member was naturalized, etc., as required by the record book for that purpose.
He shall make a report through the proper channles [sic] to the proper officers
not later than the 10th of the month for the calendar month * * *.

Mr. Manuel. Well, as Grand Dragon of the State of Alabama, were
you not, as I understand the constitution, the proper officer to whom
these Klavern officials would report ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3247

Mr. Creel. No, sir. I don't see any need of them sending them to
me. I wasn't the proper officer.

Mr. Pool. What were your duties as Grand Dragon ?

Mr. Creel. I mostly organized, had rallies, attended rallies, and
things of that nature. Naturally, during a State meeting, we would
call for reports of things from the various sections of the State, but
this is mostly oral.

Mr. Pool. Did you hire investigators?

Mr. Creel. Sir?

Mr. Pool. Did you hire investigators?

Mr. Creel. I don't think we had to hire any investigators, Mr.
Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Did you assign anybody to investigate ?

Mr. Creel. I think under the constitution, I believe the klokann
committee acts as an investigator of a unit.

Mr. Pool. What are some of your duties as Grand Dragon ? What
did you do ?

Mr. Creel. Well, we held State meetings. I more or less was acting
as a presiding chairman of the meetings, such as you are acting today,
and called for reports and things of that nature.

Mr. Pool. Did you keep a record of anything?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I didn't keep records. The recording secretary,
or the kligrapp.

Mr. Pool. Did you sign checks?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Did you keep an account of your checks you signed ?

Mr. Creel. That came along with the treasurer.

Mr. Pool. The treasurer kept all the canceled checks ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; and he takes care of reading out the financial
statements and things of that nature.

Mr. Pool. Did you check to see if he kept all those records?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. That was part of your duties?

Mr. Creel. Well, it wasn't part of my duties. I think it is a dutj
of every Klansman to not only check to see if he is doing his job,
but to see if I am doing my job.

Mr. Pool. If he was not keeping accurate records, what would you
have done?

Mr. Creel. Well, I think it is provided for charges to be made,
in the constitution, against any individual if things of that nature
should occur.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, as Grand Dragon of the State of Alabama,
were you a member of the Imperial Klonvokation at any time?

Mr. Creel. I think I had a vote, but as being a member of the
Imperial, what you might refer to as the Imperial Board, I really
don't even know if I was a member of the board or not. I know I had
a vote as such, as being an officer of the realm.

Mr. Manuel. Did you as Grand Dragon ever receive any reports
of the Imperial Klonvokation?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; we always — I didn't receive them, I don't re-
member if I have ever received any on paper. It seems like we did
one time, but I don't remember when it was, but we always set up a

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 23

3248 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

committee, and they go over the books and give a report to the
klonvokation.

Mr. Pool. Wlio kept the charter?

Mr. Creel. Beg your pardon, sir?

Mr. Pool. Did you have a charter?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Wlio kept that?

Mr. Creiel. I ordered charters out of the imperial offices as they
were needed.

Mr. Pool. Was that your duty to keep that?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; it is not my duty to keep the charters. It is
my duty to order the charters as I charter new units.

Mr. Pool. Did you keep a copy of the letter where you ordered
charters ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I didn't make copies of the letters, just write
and say, "Send me five charters," and tell them what county it is going
in, or something of that nature.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, to your direct and certain knowledge, who
keeps the Klan records on the imperial level?

Mr. Creel. I suppose Mr. Shelton has a staff at the imperial office
that takes care of the records.

Mr. Manuel. Well, how do you know that?

Mr. Creel. I don't know it. I said, I suppose.

Mr. Manuel. Any other officer keep any records?

Mr. Creel. I certainly hope they do.

Mr. Pool. Your testimony is that you had no correspondence at all,
as far as copies were concerned.

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I didn't make copies.

Mr. Pool. But you did write letters.

Mr. Creel. I didn't have a — excuse me, Mr. Chairman. I didn't
have a secretary, and what typing I do, it is a hunt-and-peck system,
and I can't hardly

Mr. Pool. You kept no memorandum of what went out. You kept
no memorandum of what went on as far as your duties and usual
activities are concerned.

Mr. Creel. Oh, naturally, I think I kept most of it in my head.
I mean, we had State meetings, in which I reported the activities of
the things that had happened during the month.

Mr. Pool. Wliat type of business are you in?

Mr. Creel. I am not in a business now, sir.

Mr. Pool. You do not have a business?

Mr. Creel. No, sir. I hope when I get through with these hear-
ings, I will have a business, doing something. It might be digging
a ditch, but

Mr. Manuel. Then it is further testimony, Mr. Creel, as I under-
stand it, that the Constitution and Laws, as you interpret them, did not
require you to maintain any records as Grand Dragon or chief officer
of the realm.

Mr. Creel. I think it was — it is designated in the constitution as
to the duties of each officer. I mean, if they are not going to have
any duties, why have an officer ?

Mr. Manuel. Well, did you ever have any correspondence with the
Imperial Wizard ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3249

Mr. Creel. I mostly talked to the Imperial Wizard either by
phone or I would make a trip to the office in Tuscaloosa. Of course,
I didn't have too many needs to be with Mr. Shelton, as far as that
went.

Mr. Manuel. How did the realm report to the imperial level ?

Mr. Creel. Imperial office ? They sent reports.

Mr. Manuel. Who sent them ?

Mr. Creel. The kligrapps.

Mr. Manuel. And in order to send them, he must have kept some
records.

Mr. Creel. I suppose Mr. Shelton has records.

Mr. Manuel. No, I am talking about you.

Mr. Pool. Do you sign the reports ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I didn't sign — I didn't send Mr. Shelton?
Were you referring to me as if they send the reports to me, and I send
them to Mr. Shelton ?

Mr. Manuel. No, all I am trying to determine is, to your certain
knowledge, who on the realm level is responsible for making reports?

Mr. Creel. Each exalted cyclops.

Mr. Manuel. Do they report directly to the imperial office?

Mr. Creel. To the imperial office; that's right.

Mr. Manuel. And what do they report ?

Mr. Creel. Membership, how many dropped out, how many new
members, just a general report, like any fraternal organization would
carry.

Mr. Manuel. Do they list the identity of membei-s on those
records ?

Mr. Creel. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Manuel. And how are membership records kept ?

Mr. Creel. That is up to the individual Klavern.

Mr. Manuel. Well, it seems that if

Mr. Creel. I mean, some puts the name down in dues books and
some puts numbers down.

Mr. Manuel. Well, then, your testimony is that each individual
Klavern reports directly to the imperial office, as I understand it.

Mr. Creel. That is correct.

Mr. Pool. Is that merely for Alabama, or is that the system all
over?

Mr. Creel. That's for Alabama. I don't know how^ it is all over,
Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Is that because Shelton was formerly the Grand Dragon
of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. Sir?

Mr. Pool. Is that because Shelton was formerly the Grand Dragon
of Alabama at one time?

Mr. Creel. I really can't answer that question. I don't know by
him being Grand Dragon had anything to do mth this or not.

Mr. Pool. Well, I am just asking the question. You don't know,
is that right?

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right, just answer the question.

Mr. Manuel. Well, Mr. Creel, in light of your statement that the
Klavems report all records, as I understand your testimony, directly

3250 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

to the imperial level, how do you, or how did you, as Grand Drago»»
of your realm, know what was going on in the Klaverns?

Mr. Creel. From State meetings.

Mr. Manuel. And were records kept of those State meetings ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; they were kept of State meetings.

Mr. Manuel. Didn't any State officer retain a copy of those
minutes ?

Mr. Creel. Certainly, that's his responsibilities to read the minutes.
You always read the minutes of the preceding klonvokation.

Mr. Manuel. All right. Now, who, as a realm officer, kept those
records ?

Mr. Creel. Well, we have had three or four. I am trying to think
who was what. I am trying to think who the man's name

Mr. Pool. Who sent out notices of the State meetings ?

Mr. Creel. I sent out the notices.

Mr. Pool. You did not keep copies of the notices you sent out?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I just made out enough copies for each one.
Make out

Mr. Pool. You make a memorandum of who attended the State
meetings ?

Mr. Creel. I can tell you who is supposed to attend. Anyone
can attend, any individual member, but we usually required the
exalted cyclops and the secretary and treasurer to attend.

Mr. Pool. Did you keep a memorandum of who attended the
State meetings, when you had one ?

Mr. Creel. Not to any names.

Mr. Pool. Didn't have a rollcall, or anything like that.

Mr. Creel. Oh, we would have a rollcall of officers.

Mr. Pool. All right. Who kept the record on that?

Mr. Creel. The recording secretary.

Mr. Pool. Who was that?

Mr. Creel. I am trying to think of his name, Mr. Chairman. I
don't w^ant to name the wrong man, and then this man say, "I am
not the recording secretary."

Mr. Pool. While you are trying to think of his name, we will come
back to that.

Mr. Manuel. We will come back to it.

Mr. Creel. All right, sir.

Mr. Pool. Now I want to ask you this: When you resigned as
Grand Dragon and resigned from the Ku Klux Klan, did you turn
any records over to the next man, or to anybody ?

Mr. Creel. What I turned over to the Grand Dragon, the present
Grand Dragon, was mostly what you have a copy of, paraphernalia
and literature, P.A. system, things of that nature.

Mr. Pool. The charter?

Mr. Creel. What charters?

Mr. Pool. The charter ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. You were directly resi:)onsible for having the charter?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I wasn't directly responsible. I had a couple
of blank charters

Mr. Pool. But you turned over tlie charter to the next Grand
Dragon.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3251

Mr. Creel. Yes.

Mr. Pool. All right. You have in your possession, now, you have
no records or memoranda as called for in this subpena.

Is that correct ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I think I have a memorandum on

Mr. Pool. Well, let us see the subpena.

Mr. Creel. All right, sir, I have a memorandum on some finances,
in which I had a copy of.

Mr. Pool. Do you want to turn that in to the committee now?

Mr. Creel. I don't have it with me. I will be glad to get it for you.

Mr. Pool. Will you turn it in to the committee ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Do you have any books ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; I have no books.

Mr. Pool. Any records?

Mr. Creel. No records.

Mr. Pool. Documents?

Mr. Creel. No documents.

Mr. Pool. No copies of correspondence?

Mr. Creel. No, sir. I might have some old letters at home, maybe
some people that wrote me. I will be glad to turn them over.

Mr. Pool. All right. Memoranda related to the organization and
the conduct of the business and affairs of the Invisible Empire, United
Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America.

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool, That is your statement then. All right. Go ahead.

When you turned this charter over to the Grand Dragon, you had
already been served a subpena. Is that correct ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; but I believe Mr. Appell probably could fur-
nish you a copy of a charter. It is just like any other charter.

Mr. Pool. Wliat were the two things you turned over to the Grand
Dragon ?

Mr. Creel. That was just a blank charter. Oh, it was just regular
Klan literature, envelopes, things of that nature.

Mr. Pool. You did not feel like they would come under this sub-
pena?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; it wouldn't have helped the committee. I
mean

Mr. Pool. All right.

(At this point Mr. Weltner left the hearing room.)

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Creel, for the record, I want to read para-
graph 2 of your subpena, which states :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda in your pos-
session, custody or control, or maintained by or available to you, in your capacity
as Grand Dragon, Realm of Alabama of the United Klans of America, Inc.,
Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which the "Constitution and Laws" of said or-
ganization authorize and require to be maintained by you and any other officer
of said organization, the same being in your possession, custody or control.

I would ask you at this time, in the representative capacity named
in paragraph 2, to turn over those documents to the committee.

Mr. Creel. I wish I could clarify that, please, because I don't un-
derstand everything involved there. I hope I made it clear to this
committee as that it actually wasn't my job to maintain these things

3252 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

and so, therefore, I didn't have knowledge — I mean, they are not in
my possession, and I can't go to a man and say, "Give me those rec-
ords. I am going to take them and give them to the committee."

Mr. Pool. You didn't get rid of the records to keep this committee
from getting them ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. All right.

Mr. Manuel. As Grand Dragon of the Realm of Alabama, you did
not have control over the realm records. Is that your testimony?

Mr. Creel. No, sir; that officer was elected for that responsibility,
just as I was elected for a responsibility. That's why I am here testi-
fying before this committee. I feel like that the majority of the
Klansmen in the State of Alabama wanted someone to testify before
this committee.

Mr. Manuel. All right.

At the time that you received this subpena calling for the produc-
tion of books, records, documents, and correspondence, and so forth,
did you talk to the proper official in the Realm of Alabama for the
purpose of turning over such records ?

Mr. Creel. I think it was discussed, in which, as a matter of fact,
that's why I made up my mind that I was going to testify, that ■

Mr. Manuel. All right. Now with whom was this

Mr. Creel. I will let you ask your question.

Mr. Manuel. Now with w^hom w^as this discussed ?

Mr. Creel, It was discussed in a State meeting, as to the action.
And as a matter of fact, I asked the — which I called the controlling
factor of the organization is the membership, and I will always feel
like that maybe as Mr. Chairman feels up there, he is just serving his
constituents, and I felt like that's what I was doing, and I asked the
State at that time what would be the proper action, and in which they
could have been the only one that could have authorized me to seize
any records from any officer. I didn't have the power to seize rec-
ords. I don't even have the power to banish anyone as far as that
goes.

Mr. Pool. How long were you Grand Dragon ?

Mr. Creel. Actively?

Mr. Pool. Yes.

Mr. Creel. I would say from March up until this year.

Mr. Pool. During that time, is it your testimony that you never
had any of these records ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; not in my possession.

Mr. Pool. You never had any in your possession.

Mr. Creel. I think you are speaking of like

Mr. Pool. The things called for in the subpena.

Mr. Creel. Like records of the meetings and things of that nature?
No, sir.

Mr. Pool. The very things that are called for in the subpena.

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. You never had them in your possession ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Pool. Could you have had them in your possession?

Mr. Creel. Well, I never thought about having them in my pos-
session because, as I just stated, that was his specific duty, as it might

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3253

be in any organization. If that individual is elected for that posi-
tion, then he serves that position.

Mr. Pool. You never did ask to look at them ?

Mr. Creel. Oh, naturally, I have heard the records read over. I
mean, from klonvokation to klonvokation. What I am speaking, Mr.
Chairman

Mr. Pool. It is your testimony, then, that you never did have them
in your possession at all.

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Now Mr. Creel, you stated that you took this ques-
tion up with the general membership at a State meeting. Is that
correct ?

Mr. Creel. That is right.

Mr. Manuel. What was the decision of the membership?

]Mr. Creel. Well, at that time, I think that was when the hearings
was first getting underway, I think the membership voted that people
woidd take the fifth amendment, but I think after the hearings has
continued, I think there has been a change of heart in the membership.

Mr. Manuel. You say the people voted to take the fifth amend-
ment ?

Mr. Creel. In other words, I asked the body what would they like
for me to do, and they said, well, and this is a time prior to me being
here — they voted that maybe I should take the fifth amendment. Of
course, maybe they didn't' know all the facts at that time, but I think
since then,*^ I think after talking to most of the people, I think they
really wanted someone to come up here and defend them, because,
basically, the people in the Klan — and I listened to Mr. Buchanan's
statement — they are good people, and I just can''t — it is hard for
me to believe. I think I talked to Mr. Appell out in the hall yester-
day. It is hard for me to believe of the accusations that has been
cast against the people of the great State of Alabama, and they are
good people.

Mr. Pool. Why didn't you bring the records up here today, then,
to substantiate what you have just said?

Mr. Creel. If I had some records, Mr. Chairman, I would have
brought them.

Mr. Pool. Why didn't you you have them vote to give you the
records to bring them up here?

Now if you really want to make a statement and bring the records
up here and lay it out on the table, that is what you should have done.

Mr. Creel. Well, I said I didn't

Mr. Pool. You said you never had any records and you said you
turned over the charter to the next Grand Dragon.

Mr. Creel. That's not a record, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. That is a document, and it is in the subpena right here.
We asked you to bring it up here. Now if you want to cooperate
with the committee, we are giving you a chance to cooperate.

Mr. Creel. If I violated any part of that subpena, then I done it
through ignorance.

Mr. Pool. You told us what you did with the documents. You got
the subpena, and then you turned it over to the Grand Dragon that
succeeded you.

3254 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Creel. I have told you I have turned over the paraphernalia
and things of that nature. You asked me was a charter involved. I
believe it was one blank charter.

Mr. Pool. We appreciate your cooperation, but the way of think-
ing here, you liave got to cooperate a hundred percent. You are not
cooperating a hundred percent, because you are not bringing these
records up here. That is what we asked you up here for, that is
why we gave you that subpena.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, with further regard to the State meeting
that you just mentioned, would you please advise the committee when
and where this meeting was held?

Mr. Creel. I believe it was held in Linden. It was on a Sunday,
I believe. I don't remember exactly the date.

Mr. Manuel. Was it shortly after you had received this subpena?

Mr. Creel. I am trying to remember if I had received the subpena,
I believe we had the meeting before I received, the Sunday — did you
say I got that on the 12th?

Mr, Manuel. The date on this subpena is November the 12th.

Mr. Creel. I believe we had that meeting prior to me receiving
the subpena, because I hadn't received it yet. I believe it was still
in Birmingham.

Mr. Manuel. And how many people were present at this meeting?

Mr. Creel. That's a good question. It was a houseful.

Mr. Manuel. Was it held at a private house ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir. It was held at a Klavern.

Mr. Manuel. And what is the location of the Klavern ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I think it is right there in Linden. They have a
big sign up, says "Klavern, United Klans of America." It is right
out of town,

Mr, Manuel. And were there other people there, Mr. Creel, who
had either received subpenas from the committee or who would, as
the facts turn out, have received a subpena?

Mr. Creel. I don't know if they had actually received any or not,
I know there was a discussion about subpenas and things of that
nature,

Mr, Manuel. And were all the State officers of the Realm of Ala-
bama present at that meeting ?

Mr. Creel. I don't believe they were; they usually aren't. You
usually wind up appointing someone to sit in the chair.

Mr. Manuel. All right. In addition to yourself as Grand Dragon,
what other officers were present ?

Mr. Creel. I was there, Mr. Shelton was there, I know Mr. Thomas
was there

Mr. Manuel. Is that Robert Thomas ?

Mr, Creel. I believe he was there. I am — now I hope he was
there.

Mr, Manuel. Well, testify to exactly what you know,

Mr. Creel. Did I name Mr. Shelton ?

Mr. Manuel. So far, you have named yourself, Mr. Shelton, and
Robert Thomas,

Mr, Creel, I think Mr. Mandiville was there. He is from Dothan,

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3255

Mr. Manuel. What is his first name ?

Mr. Creel. George, I believe. It was quite a number of people
there. I couldn't commence to name all of them. It was — the reason
I remember it so well is it was a new lodge and it was dedicated to
Mr. Murphy, who — as a matter of fact, was dedicated in his honor.

ISIr. Maxltel. Well, while we are on this subject, Mr. Creel, would
you please identify for the committee, for the period when you were
the Grand Dragon, specifically, at the date that this meeting was
held, who were the other officers of the Kealm of Alabama? In
other words, w^io was the Grand Klaliff who served as your deputy,
so to speak ?

Mr. Creel. I think Mr. Perkins was, at one time.

Mr. Manuel. Now which Mr. Perkins are you talking about? Is
that Lewis, William, which one?

Mr. Creel. Lewis, I believe.

Mr. Manuel. Was he Grand Klaliff at the time of this meeting?

Mr. Creel. I don't remember if he was there or not. I might
have appointed someone.

Mr. Manuej.. That is not my question.

My question was. Was he the Grand Klaliff at the time of this
meeting for the Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I was trying to think. If you miss so many
meetings, you appoint someone. I have appointed so many officers, I
couldn't about to name them, because it is one thing we stressed,
was attending State meetings.

I wouldn't want to say for the record if he was Klaliff at that
time, because

Mr. Manuel. All right. But he did hold that position at one
time during your tenure

Mr. Creel. At one time.

Mr. Manuel. — as Grand Dragon.

Now, who was the grand kligrapp, or secretary ?

Mr. Creel. I have had about three or four.

Mr. Manuel. Wlio is the last one that you can remember ?

Mr. Creel. I believe it is Mr. Davenport.

Mr. Manuel. Is that Cecil Davenport ?

Mr. Creel. I think so ; yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did Mr. William Holt ever serve
in that capacity ?

Mr. Creel. I don't believe he did, not while I was Grand Dragon.

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. James Whitefield serve in that capacity?

Mr. Creel. It seems like at one time. I w^on't say for sure. There
is a possibility. I believe he did.

Mr. Manuel. Now to the best of your recollection, who was the
grand klabee or treasurer of the Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. Mr. Sexton.

Mr. Manuel. Did Mr. Davenport, the kligrapp, and Mr. Sexton,
the treasurer, to the best of your knowledge, maintain records of the
Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. To the best of my recollection, they did.

Mr. Manuel. Did Eugene Thomas ever serve as the Grand Klaliff
of the State of Alabama ?

3256 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Creel. I believe that he did, but he was supposed to be
suspended.

Mr. Manuel. Now during what period of time did he serve?

Mr. Creel. I don't know if it was when I first taken office, or — I
think that's when it was.

Mr. Manuel. Now you mentioned that he was supposed to be
suspended. Would you explain to the committee what you mean
by that?

Mr. Creel. Well, as I stated before, my policy was that if anyone,
that is including myself, should become, in other words, violate the
law or be accused of violating the law, that they are automatically
suspended.

Mr. Manuel. And to your knowledge, was Eugene Thomas the
one who was accused of the murder, or implicated in the murder of
Mrs. Liuzzo from Detroit ?

Mr. Creel. I beg your pardon ?

Mr. Manuel. I say, was Eugene Thomas, of whom we are speaking
now, was he the one who was accused or implicated in the murder of
Mrs. Viola Liuzzo, outside of Selma, Alabama, in March of 1965 ?

Mr. Creel. Was he suspended ?

Mr. Manuel. I say, is he the same one we are talking about now ?

Mr. Creel. I think we are talking about the same one.

Mr. Manuel. All right. Now, is that the reason that lie was
suspended ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I don't know that he was actually suspended.
I mean, with the accusations in the paper bein^ as they were, 1 mean,
it wasn't up to me to make the decision of him being suspended or
not suspended.

Mr. Manuel. Well, under the constitution of the Klan as you
understood them at that time, as Grand Dragon, was he supposed to
have been suspended from the Klan ?

Mr. Creel. Well, that was more or less, I don't believe you can find
it in the constitution. That was more or less something that was

Mr. Manuel. Well, did you hold that as a policy in Alabama, as
Grand Dragon?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. I suspended myself, three people.

Mr. Manuel. And who were those three people?

Mr. Creel. I don't even know their names. As a matter of fact, I
wouldn't even let the man tell me.

Mr. Manuel. For what reason were they suspended ?

Mr. Creel. He told me that the police had arrested them for being
involved in, it seemed like it was shooting a house trailer, and I said,
"Well I don't even want to know their names. Just suspend them."
But arter that, I have found out that they were not guilty of the accusa-
tions. I mean, it was

Mr. Manuel. And what investigation did you make as Grand
Dragon to determine whether a person was guilty or innocent?

Mr. Creel. Well, I didn't determine if they was guilty or innocent.
I think it is a matter of record that we spoke out against violence.

Mr. Manuel. Let me ask you this question, then : As Grand Dragon
of the Kealm of Alabama, did you attempt to suspend Eugene Thomas
after the murder of Mrs. Liuzzo ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3257

Mr. Creel. No, sir; I didn't. It would look pretty funny, me sus-
pending them, and then attending rallies and things of that nature.

Mr. Manuel. Well, likewise, did you make an attempt to suspend
Collie Leroy Wilkins or W. O. Eaton?

Mr. Creel. I didn't make any attempt to suspend any three of
them. I am still debating that issue in my own mind.

Mr. Manuel. Did you as Grand Dragon of the State of Alabama
make any investigation into the circumstances surrounding the murder
of Mrs. Liuzzo to determine whether or not persons who were members
of your realm, Wilkins, Eaton, and Thomas, were guilty or not guilty ?
Mr. Creel. Well, I don't mind putting it in the record that I actually
approached the three defendants and I asked them. I said, "I am not
^oing to ask you if you done it, but for the sake of the organization,
if you did, at least do it on your own. You know what I mean?
Defend your own case." And they assured me that they were not
guilty. I was very much concerned about anything of that nature.

Mr. Pool. At a later date, do you intend to go back into the Ku Klux
Klan?
Mr. Creel. Sir?

Mr. Pool. Do you intend to rejoin the Ku Klux Klan at a later date ?
Mr. Creel. I don't know if they will have me or not.
Mr. Pool. You did not answer my question.

Do you wish to go back into the Ku Klux Klan if they will take
you ? Let us put it that way.

Mr. Creel. Well, I really haven't thought too much about it, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Pool. You might. Is that it?

Mr. Creel. That's — you are asking me to make a pretty quick
decision.

Mr. Pool. Well

Mr. Creel. I will put it this way : As long as it is not considered
un-American or being a Communist- front organization, then I would
serve in the Klan, because, basically, I really believe that the member-
ship, the down-to-earth membership, I know they are good people.
Mr. Pool. You think the Ku Klux Klan is a good organization, then.
Mr. Creel. Well, I never did refer to the Klan as the Ku Klux Klan,

because that was on the subversive list, and

Mr. Pool. Well, all right, the United Klans of America.
Mr. Creel. I believe that any organization with the proper leader-
ship can be a good organization.

Mr. Pool. So you resigned from the Ku Klux Klan and came up
here to testify. And you reserve the right to go back into the Ku
Klux Klan at a later date.

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; I don't reserve that right.

Mr. Pool. Well, you have a reservation about it being a bad orga-
nization. You think they are a ])retty good organization.

Mr. Creel. I don't think it is a bad organization. I am speaking,
Mr. Chairman, of the people in the organization. Now maybe there
are some people that will come in the organization that's got things on
their minds that I can't answer that question.

Mr. Pool. Well, do you believe in an organization taking the law
into its own hands?

3258 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; I don't believe in any organization

Mr. Pool. You did not think the Ku Klux Klan ever took the law
into its own hands ?

Mr. Creel. I hope they haven't. I sincerely hope they haven't. I
don't believe any organization has the right to take the law into its
own hands.

Mr. Pool. Well, have you paid any attention to these hearings?

Mr. Creel. I have been reading them ; yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. You do not believe what you read ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; I believe what I read, and what I see. Mr.
Appell was telling me in the hall, he says, things of that nature. I
says, "Well, Mr. Appell, it is pretty hard for me to believe that," and
he says, "Well, you ought to see the record."

Well, I haven't seen the records, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. That is the whole purpose of the hearing, is to make a
record on the things and to see what the Ku Klux Klan has been doing.
And if I were a member of the Ku Klux Klan, I would certainly want
to know what the organization was doing and that is what this hear-
ing has been about.

Mr. Creel. Well, I don't mind

Mr. Pool. And you say you resigned. I thought maybe you had
become disillusioned with them, but now you say it is a good organiza-
tion and you won't say that you won't go back in it. You might.

Mr. Creel. Well, I am not — naturally, I guess

Mr. Pool. I just want to find out what your position is, that is all.

Mr. Creel. I suppose there is a certain amount of disillusionment.
From the fact, from the hearings and from the news media, that you
might read, of where that you read constantly that where questions
would be asked, I am just using this, for instance, because this came
out in the paper, and I suppose they were asked — I wasn't here, but
I think they asked one — I don't even know if he belonged to this
organization or not, but one so-called Klansman said isn't it a fact
that you taken two Negroes and tied them to a motor and throwed
them in the Mississippi River or some river, and the man took the
fifth amendment.

To me, that created, and to others, doubts in the minds of the people,
if they really stop and think. Maybe some people thought, "Well,
maybe that man did do that."

Mr. Pool. Well, if he did do it, he ought to take the fifth amend-
ment, I would say. [Laughter.]

Mr. Creel. And then again, I think, if that man did that, he
should be in jail.

Mr. Pool. That is right.

Mr. Creel. It is pretty confusing, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Well, what you could do, you could perform a great
service to America if you would come before this committee and co-
operate with us in getting to the basic facts and giving us the names,
the figures, anything else that the investigators are asking you, to
try to get to the bottom of the whole thing.

Mr. Creel. Well, Mr. Chairman, I don't mind. I don't know what
I have at home, but I do have the filing cabinet. And if it is any-
thing in there that would be of a service to this committee to propose

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3259

good legislation, I am more than happy to turn it over to this com-
mittee. I wasn't trying to make a monkey out of this committee, or
to

Mr. Pool. Well, we w^ill certainly be glad to look at it, and if it is
helpful to the committee, I will be one of the first ones to compliment
you and tell the American people that you have cooperated, so we
will see what you present us.

Mr. Creel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, one more question on the subject which we
touched on briefly.

Were you under any orders from any imperial officer of the United
Klans of America not to suspend Collie Leroy Wilkins or W. O. Eaton
or Eugene Thomas?

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; I was not under any orders not to, and I can't
say that I was under any orders to suspend. In other words, I felt
like that the Imperial Wizard was there when the men were got out
on bond, and if he had wanted to suspend them, he could have taken
that in his own judgment. I didn't question him one way or the other
if they should be suspended or not suspended.

Mr. Manuel. Did the United Klans of America pay the bond for
Wilkins, Thomas, and Eaton ?

Mr. Creel. I think it is a matter of record that we paid the attor-
ney's fees and bonding fees.

Mr. Manuel. Now, to get back to the State meeting in which you
testified that Mr. Shelton, Robert Thomas, yourself, were present,
among others, what was Mr. Shelton's own position on his appearance
before this committee ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I had always understood that Mr. Shelton would
cooperate with this committee, and but for some reason, I think after
he had talked to the attorney, I just don't know his reason for not testi-
fying before this committee.

Mr. Pool. Did you discuss your appearance before this committee
with Mr. Shelton ?

Mr. Creel. You mean since I have been here ?

Mr. Pool. Well, after you got your subpena?

Mr. Creel. Well, I have told Mr. Shelton, I believe, one time in his
office. Of course, I hadn't been subpenaed. Naturally, we discussed
it, and I assumed that Mr. Shelton would cooperate with this commit-
tee. I know that he thinks highly of this committee ; at least, he has
spoken in the past highly of this committee, in saying it is a good
committee, and that we can't

Mr. Pool. That is not lately, though.

Mr. Creel. Well, I am speaking of the conversation, Mr. Chairman,
that he spoke quite highly of this committee, and he even made a state-
ment saying that we can't attack this committee, because we would
be falling into the hands of the other people that would like to see this
committee done away with, and of course, it's one thing about this
Nation, this is a free country, and no one has to do — take the fifth.

Mr. Pool. Did Mr. Shelton ask you if you were going to take the
fifth amendment?

Mr. Creel. I don't remember him asking me.

Mr. Pool. Did he ask you to take the fifth amendment?

3260 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Creel. I didn't hear him. He didn't tell me I had to and he
didn't tell me I couldn't.

Mr. Pool. You all did not discuss it ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; I haven't discussed it with Mr. Shelton.

Mr. Pool. Mr. Buchanan ?

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Creel, I would like to inform you at this point
that it has come to my attention in the first place, Mr. Shelton allegedly
stated a number of places that he would freely testify before this
committee. For example, I have been informed that, in a very sparsely
attended meeting that was held in Tarrant City in my district, Mr.
Shelton said that anyone who took the fifth before this committee was
a Communist or acting like a Communist.

I do not agree witli that, necessarily. A man has a right to take
the fifth amendment if he feels anything would tend to incriminate
him. He has a constitutional right to do so, but, nevertheless, he made
this statement and then took the fifth numerous times himself.

As to his attitude toward this committee, Mr. Chairman, I think you
know and I expect the world knows Mr. Shelton's attitude toward
this committee, which has been, his attacks have been more vitriolic
and vehement than any we have received even from the Communists,
and they did a pretty good job of attacking this committee. For
example, he has in a radio interview, Mr. Chairman, described my con-
duct as unchristian, unethical, and, I quote, "unresponsible."

He said most of our dicisions are made in the bars and saloons of
Washington, and so forth.

I think that you ought to be apprised of that attitude on the part
of the Imperial Wizard, and any pious words he may have said about
this committee or his attitude toward this committee have not proven
out in his conduct and in his language, for many weeks now.

Mr. Creel. Well, Mr. Chairman, if I might be permitted, I would
like to say that, basically, the people of Alabama that is in the Klan,
they approve of this committee and they approve of the job of this
committee. So

Mr. Pool. Of the investigation of the Ku Klux Klan ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Pool. Well, I am glad to hear that.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, getting back to this State meeting which
you previously testified to, was Robert Shelton the presiding officer
at that meeting ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Who was ?

Mr. Creel. I was.

Mr. Manuel. And Robert Shelton was just in attendance?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. And you state that the membership of the Realm of
Alabama decided then by vote, as I understand your testimony, that
anyone subpenaed before the committee would take the fifth amend-
ment. Is that correct ?

Mr. Creel. At that time; yes, sir. As I have said, there has been a
change of heart.

Mr. Manuel. And how was that change manifested ?

Mr. Creel. Well, all I can go by is people I talk to, and

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3261

Mr. Manuel. In other words, was-

Mr. Creel. In other words, I was encouraged to cooperate w^ith this
committee.

Mr. Manuel. Well, was there, in like fashion, a meeting of the mem-
bership of the Realm of Alabama and did they vote and then vote that
you were not to take the fifth amendment?

Mr. Creel. "Well, I don't know. I don't have any knowledge of any
meeting after that, if I should take the fifth or not take the fifth.

Mr. Manuel. In other words, then, officially, the vote of the mem-
bership of the realm stands that you, even before you got a subpena,
you should take the fifth amendment before the committee.

Mr. Creel. That's something to that effect. I can — I don't mind
telling this committee it was a hard decision to make and I made that
decision. Of course, I didn't make it simply because I said I think
this is what's right ; I made the decision after I talked to the people.

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Creel, I wonder if you could tell the com-
mittee if there was any discussion at that State meeting as to what
basis Klansmen would use in taking the fifth amendment ?

Mr. Creel. I don't remember the outcome of the conversation. It
was quite lengthy, and when you have got 50 or 60 people — it might
have been more, it might have been less — and everybody discussing
this pro and con, it would be impossible to remember everything that
was said.

Mr. Manuel. Well, okay

Mr. Creel. But I think the basic issue was that this committee
would more or less try to railroad everyone. I think that w^as the gen-
eral feeling and I think it was statements made to the effect, "Well,
once you testify, that then you are going to have to take" — you can't
take the fifth and you can take the fifth and you can't.

I mean, things of that nature were discussed back and forth and,
actually, I think a lot of people was just plain scared. Being coming
way up here to Washington, and basically, I think they wanted to do
what was right, and they was just plain scared, just to be honest wdth
you. I know" myself I was quite nervous yesterday myself, going in
the hearings, and the committee itself has a tendency to maybe scare
an individual.

Mr. Pool. Well, could I ask you this question, then : Can you tell us
anything wrong with the Ku Klux Klan? There is bound to be some-
thing wrong with it.

Mr. Creel. Well, I suppose I could find a lot of things wrong with
a lot of organizations. I can honestly say this; that the majority of
the people in the Klan, they are just everyday citizens.

Mr. Creel. Well, I guess you could — I think the leadership, nat-
urally can always look for better leadership. There is a hundred
thousand people in Alabama could have done a better job than I done,
probably.

Mr. Pool. All right, how about Robert, Shelton?

Mr. Creel. Well, he has been vo<^ed a voice of confidence, so I sup-
pose the people are happy with it. In other words, he has been elected
at every Idonvokation. t think, basically, Mr. Shelton, I haven't kept
up with him here lately, but I think he has touched some issues that

3262 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

everyone should be concerned about. Of course, I can find fault in
everyone. I find fault in myself, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Pool. Did anybody find fault with him not trying to cooperate
with the committee ?

Mr. Creel. I haven't talked to that many people. I definitely feel
like that it has hurt the organization by them not cooperating with the
committee. I mean, that's a personal opinion.

Mr. Pool. How bad has it hurt that organization ?

Mr. Creel. It is not that bad, but people don't like to be -accused of
things, Mr. Chairman, if they aren't true. It put doubt in their mind.
I don't know how effectively or how bad or anything of that nature,
but, naturally, I am not thinking so much of the present membership, I
am thinking of the future membership, the people would say, "Well, I
don't want to join that thing. I \xi\\ have to go out here and kill
somebody."

And I never tried to project an image of that nature. I think, as I
have said, my opinions of this committee might not be much, but as my
own personal opinion, I am not fooling myself. Naturally, it has hurt,
in some areas, the membership.

Mr. Pool. Did the membership get upset a little bit about the fact
that the financial manipulations were not too straight?

Mr. Creel. I don't know^ so much about that, but I suppose that the
next national klonvokation there wall be some good going-over the
books.

Mr. Pool. Do you suppose they wnll pass a rule against driving

Mr. Creel. I can't answer that, Mr. Chairman. That is his personal
affairs.

Mr. Buchanan. Mr. Chairman.

Did you have any personal knowledge of the fact that Miss Carol
Long was signing, countersigning some of the checks, and Mrs. Shel-
ton, under the names "T. M. Montgomery" and "James J. Hendrix" ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; I did not. I have never served on a committee
to audit the books. I didn't know how that was carried on.

Mr. Buchanan. Was this generally known in the organization, so
far as your know^ledge?

Mr. Creel. I couldn't honestly answer that, because if I should tell
you, "Well, say, it was," then I would be telling this committee a
fib, and

Mr. Buchanan. This information was not imparted at any meet-
ings which you attended or discussed in any way that would be
known by you. Is that correct?

Mr. Creel. Well, I just hadn't ever inquired about, Mr. Buchanan,
to be honest with you.

Mr. Pool. Well, are you telling this committee, then, that the United
Klans is a very highly ethical, God-fearing, peace-loving type
organization ?

Mr. Creel. Well, Mr. Chairman, that's all I have ever projected.
You can take any organization, any fraternal organization, and there
is no doubt in my mind that a lot of churches and a lot of other
organization members do things, of course, that is not blasted out
to the news media that this man Avas a member. I am a member of

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3263

the Baptist Church. They won't say this man was a member of the
Baptist Church, or a member of the Masonic Order. They will say,
"He was a Klansman."

As long as there is any acts of violence committed and contributed
to the Klan then I am afraid the Klan will kill itself, as long as there
is acts of violence.

Mr. Pool. Do you think the secrecy of the Klan — don't you think
that will hurt it in the long run?

Mr. Creel. Secrecy?

Mr. Pool. Yes.

Mr. Creel. Well, Mr. Cliairman, I have heard a lot of talk, listen-
ing, about the secrecy. No one has told that they didn't identify
themselves. They can identify themselves if they so desire.

Mr. Pool. But they do not do it, they do not have membership
lists.

Mr. Creel. Well, a lot of people I know has. They say, "Well,
I belong to the Klan. I don't mind telling you." Now I think one
reason that the members have a tendency to keep it a secret is that,
on some occasions, they have been fired from their job, things like
that. I guess it has happened to maybe members of the NAACP in
Alabama. A lot of people, a lot of those didn't want to let their
membership be known, because they would be fired. Things of that
nature. I think that had a lot to do with it.

Mr. Pool. Don't you suppose there is a reason for that?

Mr. Creel. Well, I have never actually said that I was ashamed
that I belonged. I didn't hold my identity secret. Of course, now
this is a personal opinion. I would like to see every man, if he is
ashamed to belong, then he shouldn't be in there. Let him make
himself known.

Mr. Pool. That is exactly the point.

Mr. Creel. Well, I have the same feeling.

Mr. Pool. You think that the Klan should have a secret member-
ship list ? They should go ahead and let people see their membership
list or see who the officers are?

Mr. Creel. I think in the past year, I think the Klan has operated
more in the open than it ever has.

Mr. Pool. Have you abolished the system of numbers ?

Mr. Creel. Sir?

Mr. Pool. Have they abolished the system of numbers in their
Klaverns ?

Mr. Creel. As I have stated before in testimony, that's up to the
individual unit, how, if they want to use a number, I don't see any
use to using numbers myself. Again, of course, that's a personal
opinion.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, were you exalted cyclops of Bessemer
Klavern No. 20 during the month of September 1963?

Mr. Creel. I don't know if I was exalted cyclops or if I was great
titan. I don't remember.

Mr. Manuel. AYell, you were one of the officers that had jurisdiction
over that Klavern. Is'that correct ? Whether it was titan or exalted
cyclops?

Mr. Creel. Well, the titan would have — what you don't basically
understand, each unit operates more or less independently.

59-222 O— 67— pt. 4 24

3264 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

I mean, a man is elected as chairman or president or exalted cyclops
or anything that you want to call him. He carries out just the duties
as Mr. Pool is carrying out there, acting out as chairman. You have a
set of rules to go by. A business meeting is no more of a business
meeting being conducted than it would be if he was in the Kiwanis
or Lions or anything else.

Mr. Manuei.. Well, were you an active member, then, of the Besse-
mer Klavern No. 20 in September 1963?

Mr. Creel. I suppose I was.

Mr. Manuel. Do you have any knowledge of any other member ot
that Klavern who was suspected or questioned about the bombings
of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham?

Mr. Creel. Did we have any members that were suspected?

Mr. Manuel. And questioned. To your knowledge.

Mr. Creel. I think those 16th Street bombings, I believe everybody
in Alabama was questioned, to give you an honest answer. I know
I was. I guess everybody that ever belonged to the Klan or even
thought about joining was questioned as to those bombings.

I think Mr. Buchanan can vouch for that, that they had a pretty
thorough investigation.

Mr. Manuel. Well, now, do you possess any knowledge concerning
that bombing?

Mr. Creel. I have no knowledge whatsoever and, if I am not mis-
taken, I believe we put up a thousand dollars reward with that. If
I am not mistaken. I don't know if that was the bombing, or — it was
so many there, I don't know. 1 have no knowledge.

Mr. Manuel. Have you ever been present as a member of the United
Klans of America at a meeting or at a gathering where there was
dynamite present?

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Were you registered at the Capri Motel in Jackson-
ville, Florida, in November of 1964 ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Would you please tell the committee in your own
words what went on on that occasion ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I can tell you what went on where I was at. As
a matter of fact, that was on a Saturday; was it not? I flew from
Birmingham to Jacksonville, myself and Mr. Roton, and Mr. Matt
Murphy met us at the airport, and we went back to the motel, we
had a rally that night which was a public rally, which people attended,
we stayed in the room mostly.

I know, at the rally, Mr. Shelton was there. I was there, and Mr. —
well, the other Grand Dragons. I forget who they were at that time.
It seemed like it was — I believe it was Mr. Bob Jones, Mr. Bob
Scoggins. As a matter of fact, they was from everywhere.

Mr. Manuel. Was Collie Leroy Wilkins also present?

Mr. Creel. I believe he was.

Mr. Manuel. Was Eugene Thomas also present?

Mr. Creel. I think so.

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did any

Mr. Creel. And if I might add, I believe Mr. Rowe was there.

Mr. Manuel. You are speaking of Gary Rowe ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. S265

Mr. Creel. That is right.

Mr. Manuel. To your knowledge, did any person whom we have
just discussed have a meeting with Mr. J. 13. Stoner?

Mr. Creel. Now, I saw Mr. Stoner briefly. Now, what the conver-
sation was carried out, I have no knowledge, because I believe he
came there to confer with Mr. Murphy, and what the conversation
was about, I have no knowledge of that, but I do know that they
did have conversation. I will put it this way : I don't know Mr. Stoner
personally, but there was a man that was said, "Well, that's J. B.
Stoner."

Mr. Manuel. Did you have any knowledge of any conversation
whatsoever concerning William Kosecrans on that occasion ?

Mr. Creel. I don't even know him.

Mr. Manuel. Did you, as a participant in any meeting, observe
any arms or dynamite in the area of the Capri Motel ?

Mr. Creel. If there was any there, I didn't see it.

Mr. Pool. The committee M'ill stand in recess until a quarter of two.

(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Pool and Buchanan.)

(Whereupon, at 12 :1:5 p.m., Wednesday, February 9, 1966, the sub-
committee recessed, to reconvene at 1 :45 p.m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1966

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:15 pjn., Hon. Charles L.
Weltner, presiding.)

( Subcommittee members present : Representatives Weltner and
Buchanan.)

Mr. Weltner. The subcommittee will be in order.

Mr. Appell?

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, before we continue with the testimony
of Mr. Creel, I would like to call to the witness stand Mr. Ralph
Pryor.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Pryor, please come forward.

Mr. Creel will remain for further testimony.

Mr. Pryor, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in
this hearing will be the (rutli, the whole truth, and nothing but the

Mr. Pryor. I do.

TESTIMONY OF KALPH EARL PRYOR, JR.

Mr. Weltner. Would you state your name?

Mr. Pryor. My name is Ralph Earl Pryor, Jr.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Pryor, are you represented by counsel?

Mr. Pryor. No, sir, I am not.

Mr. Weltner. Do you desire to have counsel represent you?

Mr. Pryor. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Pryor, as acting chairman of this subcommittee,
I advise you that, under the Constitution of the United States, you
have the riglit to refuse to answer any question propounded to you
which may, in your judgment, possibly incriminate you under any
Federal or State statute, that being your right under the fifth
amendment.

3266 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Do you understand your constitutional rights?

Mr. Pryor. I do, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And it is your desire to proceed without counsel at
this point?

Mr. Pryor. Yes, it is.

Mr. Weltner. I further advise you that if at any time during the
course of this proceeding you desire counsel, if you \Yill make that
fact known, this hearing will be suspended, and you will be atforded
an opportunity to obtain counsel.

All right, proceed, Mr. Appell.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, the reason we have called Mr. Pryor
is that, during the recess, Mr. Pryor advised me that in accordance
with the subpena served upon him, which calls for him to bring with
him and to produce certain books and records called for in the sub-
pena, he has such documents. We are calling him only for the purpose,
at this time, that the staff might have an opportunity to review these
documents in the course of further interrogation of Mr. Creel.

Mr. Pryor, you are appearing here today in accordance with a sub-
pena served upon you on the 25th day of October 1965?

Mr. Pryor. I am, sir.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Pryor, under the terms of that subpena in an
attachment thereto, which was made a part of the subpena, you were
asked to bring :

All books, records, documents, correspondence, and memoranda relating to the
organization of and the conduct of business and affairs of the Invisible Empire,
United Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and afBliated
organizations, namely, the Alabama Rescue Service, or Delaware Rescue Service,
in your possession, custody or control, or maintained by you or available to you
as Grand Dragon, Realm (State) of Delaware of the Invisible Empire, United
Klans, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of America, Inc., also known as the
United Klans of America, Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

Now, Mr. Pryor, I ask you, in the representative capacity set forth
in paragraph 1 of the subpena, if you will produce the records and
other documents called for ?

Mr. Pryor. May I be excused for a few seconds ?

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir.

Are the documents contained in that briefcase, sir ?

Mr. Prior. Yes, sir.

Mr. Appell. Would you present the documents, please ?

Mr. Pryor. I would like to add, sir, that everything in here pertains
to the United Klans of America, nothing about — I know nothing about
the Alabama Rescue Service, or whatever it is. I have two other
articles in my wallet.

(Documents handed to staff.)

Mr. Manuel. Thank you.

Mr. Appell. Mr. Pryor, the committee thanks you, and we ask you
to stand aside, and you will be recalled at the conclusion of the
testimony of Mr. Creel.

Mr. Weltner. Just one moment, please.

Mr. Pryor, you are testifying now that these are all of the documents
that are within the description contained within your subpena that are
in your possession, or w^ere in your possession at the time of the service
of the subpena ?

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3267

Mr. Pryor. No, sir ; not all of them. Not all of them.

Mr. Weltner. Are there any other documents ?

Mr. Pryor. I did everything in my power to get everything else.
I think that the committee will find that I have brought things suffi-
cient. There were some things impossible for me to bring.

Mr. Weltner. Very well. You are not expected to produce any-
thing that is not subject to your physical possession, sir. If you will
stand aside, we will proceed with another witness, and then call you in
order, sir.

Thank you.

Mr. Manuel. Will Mr. Robert Creel please resume the stand?

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT MILTON CREEL— Resumed

Mr. Weltner. Mr. Creel, I remind you of your right to have counsel
represent you and of your rights under the fifth amendment to the
Constitution and that you are still under oath.

Mr. Creel. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Ma-nuel. Mr. Chairman, at this time I would like to continue
with the reading of the documents called for under Mr. Creel's sub-
pena. In his previous testimony, we only got through the first two
paragraphs and didn't finisli because of questions propounded to Mr.
Creel during the course of his answers, so I would like to continue with
the reading of paragraph 8 of Mr. Creel's subpena.

Mr. Weltner. All right, sir.

Mr. Manuel. Which calls for him to produce:

Copies of U.S. Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, Form 1120,
"U.S. Corporation Income Tax Return," for the years 1961 through June 30, 1965,
filed by you as Grand Dragon, Realm of Alabama of the United Klans of America,
Inc., Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

I ask you at this time, Mr. Creel, to produce those documents.

Mr. Creel. I have never filed, since I only actually was what you
might say full-time, actually, it hasn't come time to file taxes for this
year. I think prior to that, I am quite sure, or I am not quite sure Mr.
Shelton should have signed those, because he was acting Grand
Dragon, prior to my position. And- —

Mr. Manuel. Who was the Grand Dragon who immediately pre-
ceded you in Alabama, Mr. Creel ?

Mr. Creel. You mean the one before me ? I think Mr. Shelton was
acting Grand Dragon until I was elected. In other words, I believe
that when Mr. Page resigned, Mr. Shelton taken over the duties as
Grand Dragon and Imperial Wizard.

Mr. Manuel. Wlien did Mr. Page leave the position of Grand
Dragon for Alabama?

Mr. Creel. I am trying to think. I think it was about 6 months
prior of me taking over as Grand Dragon. I am not sure on that,
now. I am merely guessing.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, our records indicate that you were nomi-
nated for the position of Grand Dragon of the Realm of Alabama
at a meeting held on February 23, 1964. Is that correct, to your
knowledge ?

Mr. Creel. I don't believe it is. It could have been, the nomina-
tions, in '64.

3268 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S.

Mr. Mantjel. And that you assumed the title of Grand Dragon
after being elected to that position in Marcli of 1964. Is that correct,
sir?

Mr. Creel. Well, no, sir. I think it was in January. Now I went
full-time in March. In other words, it was a full-time job. It was
in March of '65.

Mr. Manuel. March of '65 ?

Mr. Creel. I believe. If I am not wrong. Let's see.

Mr. Manuel. In other words, you did not hold the position of
Grand Dragon at any time during the year 1964 ?

Mr. Creel. I am not sure. I would have to check back. I don't
want to say yes or no. I don't know if I was nominated in November
of '63 or November of '65.

Mr. Manuel. Well, our records indicate that you served as Grand
Dragon for the Realm of Alabama, Knights — United Klans of
America, since March of 1964.

Mr. Creel. I don't believe so. I think during that period — I am
not sure, but I believe Mr. Shelton was acting as Grand Dragon. I
won't make a positive statement. I am trying to be honest with the
committee.

Mr. Weltner. Are you saying that there was no person officially
in the office of Grand Dragon of Alabama, but that the Imperial
Wizard conducted the functions of the Office of Grand Dragon of the
Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir, for a period of time, and what I was trying to
straighten out in my mind, exactly what that period of time was.

Mr. Weltner. Well, about how long, altogether, did you serve as
Grand Dragon ? About a year ?

Mr. Creel. I would say 6 months or longer.

Mr. Weltner. And you resigned as Grand Dragon when ?

Mr. Creel. This January.

Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, I would like to show you a copy of a
signature card filed with the Birmingham Trust National Bank for
the account of the United Klans of America, and the names on this
signature card are Robert M. Creel, Eugene Thomas, Melvin Sexton,
and James R. Whitfield.

Mr. Weltner. Is that Whitfield?

Mr. Manuel. Wliitefield. I am sorry. Wliitefield.

Mr. Creel. And what is the date on that ?

Mr. Manuel. And the date on this document — actually, there are
two signature cards filed here, one dated January 4, 1966, which super-
seded the old signature card, which I read, which indicates that you
were president or Grand Dragon of the United Klans of America,
Realm of Alabama, prior to the date of January 4, 1966.

I hand you this document, and ask you to make any explanation
of that, that you can remember to the committee.

Mr. Creel. Well, what I was trying to do was to fill in the gap.
There is a gap there that Mr. Shelton acted as Grand Dragon, and
then a short time I served — I don't know. I don't even remember
how many months it was, and then we held an election, and I was
elected. That is certainly my signature.

(Signature card previously marked "James Wliitefield Exhibit No.
3-B. Seep. 3113.)"

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3269

Mr. "Weltner. Well, take your time and examine that document
and see if that refreshes your recollection, Mr. Creel. There is no
need to rush you. We are just trying to tie these dates down as ac-
curately as possible.

Mr. Creel. I believe this says date opened was October 28, 1964.
So I served, I am trying- to remember if it was from August or some
time thereafter till the end of the year, wdiich elections are held usu-
ally at the end of the year, and for a term of office, which would run
out this past election.

Mr. Manuel. Well, did you serve as Grand Dragon for any part of
the year 1964?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Manuel. And to the best of your recollection, how long did
you serve as Grand Dragon in that year ?

Mr. Creel. I am just guessing. I will say from August till the
end of the year. It could have been later. I don't believe it was any
earlier.

Mr. Manuel. All right.

Now to your knowledge, did the Realm of Alabama, United Klans
of America, file an income tax return, listing income and expenses to
the Federal Government — to the Internal Revenue Service?

Mr, Creel. No, sir; I didn't. I presume Mr. Shelton filed those
papers.

Mr. Manuel. Did he file it for the Realm of Alabama ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I presume he did. I have no knowledge that he
did.

Mr. Manuel. Well, did you report as Grand Dragon the statement
of income and expense to Mr. Shelton so that he could report to the
Internal Revenue Service ?

Mr. Creel. Well, I believe, if I remember correctly, when I taken,
when I taken on the job as Grand Dragon, there was no funds at that
time, when I taken over — when I took over from Mr. Shelton. If there
was, I never received any, so

Mr. Manuel. Well, what was the total income of the Realm of
Alabama for the year 1964 ?

Mr. Creel. I don't remember, but it wasn't much, because there
wasn't any there, as I stated, there w as none there when I taken over.
It seems like it was about $90. Noav I could be wrong, but that figure sticks in my mind, some place, so I will use that figure. Mr. Manuel. In other w^ords, the entire Realm of Alabama of the United Klans of America, to the best of your knowledge, had an income of only$90 for the year 1964 ?

Mr. Weltner. Now that is not what he said.

Mr. Creel. No.

Mr. Weltner. He said when he took over, there was only $90 in the treasury. We want to know how much money was received by the realm during the year. Mr. Creel. From the time I taken over till the end of the year, I really don't know. It wasn't very much though. I do know that it wasn't no big figure. Because at that time, there really wasn't too many active miits in the State. So I really don't know and anyway I didn't keep the financial part. 3270 ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. Mr. Manuel. Well, from what sources did the Klan derive its in- come, whatever it was ? Mr. Creel. Well, from dues. Mr. Manuel. Any other sources ? Mr. Creel. Not that I know of. - Mr. Manuel. Did you receive any portion of any initiation fee of a new member ? Mr. Creel. Well, that was voted in, after I went full time, but I actually never received personally that portion, because I think I stated before that most of the money, I think — you have the checks there — went into attorneys' fees and things of that nature. Mr. Manuel. Did the Realm of Alabama derive any income from collections taken up at rallies? Mr. Creel. That was left up to the discretion of each unit. Now some of the units, they donated to the realm, some of them kept it. That was up to the discretion of ever who was sponsoring a rally. Mr. Weltner. Did any portion of the klectokon or initiation fee go to the realm office ? Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. How much ? Mr. Creel.$5.

Mr. Weltner. Out of $10? Mr. Creel. No, sir, out of$15.

Mr. Weltner. The klectokon was $15 ? Mr. Creel. Yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. And$5 of that went to the realm and stayed in the
realm ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. And was any portion of the klectokon then for-
warded to the imperial office ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir.

Mr. Weltner. So the other $10 stayed with the Klavern ? Mr. Creel. With the unit ; yes, sir. Mr. Weltner. Now you said when you took over that there were not very many active units in Alabama. How many active units were there at the time you took over ? Mr. Creel. I would say not over seven or eight. Mr. Weltner. Just a moment, please. Mr. Manuel. Mr. Creel, what portion of the dues paid by members of the Alabama Realm were paid to the State office in the year 1964? Mr. Creel. 25 cents per man per month. In 1964? Mr. Manuel. Yes. Mr. Creel. 25 cents per man per month, and at that time the ini- tiation fee was only$10.

Mr. Manuel. And when did it change from $10 to$15 ?

Mr. Creel. I believe right after I went into office as Grand Dragon.

Mr. Manuel. And what other dues payable by each member in
the year 1965?

Mr. Creel. To the State?

Mr. Manuel. To the State.

Mr. Creel. 25 cents a man per month, plus \$5 of the klectokon
fee would go to the State office.

ACTIVITIES OF KU KLUX KLAN IN THE U.S. 3271

Mr. jVLvnuel. And how much goes to the imperial office?

Mr. Creel. Out of the klectokon fee ?

Mr. Manuel. Out of the klectokon and out of the dues, also.

Mr. Creel. Nothing out of the klectokon.

Mr. Manuel. And dues ?

Mr. Creel. 50 cents per man per month.

Mr. Manuel. Now, Mr. Creel, at the time that you

Mr. Weltner. Hold it just a moment. Fifty cents per man per
month goes to the imperial office?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. 25 cents goes to the realm office ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Weltner. What is the total monthly dues ?

Mr. Creel. That is left up to the discretion of each Klavern. We
didn't dictate to the people of what tlieir dues should be. In other
words, maybe some Klaverns could operate on less expense, where

Mr. Weltner. But it had to be at least 75 cents a month to cover
these assessments ?

Mr. Creel. Yes, sir; it had to be at least 75. Some places, they
could get by for a dollar a month dues. Some places could get by,
Ave will say, for a dollar and a half. It is according to the size of the
city and the rent and the lights and water, and things of that nature.

Mr. Manuel. Now did each Klavern report periodically its income
to the State office ?

Mr. Creel. They didn't report to me. What do you mean of their
income? Did they make reports of how many members they had?

Mr. Manuel. Of how much money they took in, each month.

Mr. Creel. No, sir ; they made no report to me.

Mr. Manuel. Did they make a report as to the amount of dues
collected each month ?

Mr. Creel. Well, the way you run your report is how many mem-
bers that you have in good standing, just like any other fraternal
organization. If you have got 20 men in good standing, you sent
your klectokon for 20 men in good standing.

Mr. Manuel. Well, please tell the committee exactly what a Klav-
ern would report each month to the State office.

Mr. Creel. Exactly the membership of what they was paying the
klectokon for.

Mr. Manuel. Was there included in the report any financial state-
ment ?

Mr. Creel. No, sir. As the b
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